# Australian native honey brewing



## TimT (27/11/15)

It's an idea that I really shouldn't be thinking about because it's hell expensive but I can't _not _think about. 

Australian native bee honey brewing (sugar bag honey). Has anyone done it? Anything to report back on the flavour or qualities of native bee honey? Does it have similar preservative qualities to the honey of _Melissa Officinalis_? 

Say I was to lash out and make a 1 gallon mead with it: what differences would it have to a conventional mead? 

I'd love to hear of the experiences of other brewers with this one.


----------



## yankinoz (27/11/15)

I dislike mead, but do like honey and can comment on flavours. Australian honey comes in amazing variety of flavours, so generalisation is unwise. Maybe try mild but perfumed honeys such as orange blossom first and avoid strong ones such a Banksia.


----------



## Airgead (27/11/15)

Never used native bee honey before for brewing. I have tasted it though. It was very dark and very strong. It would make an interesting mead but would probbaly need a very long aging before it was good. 

You would also need a pretty hefty bank balance at those prices. A kilo would set you back around $200.


----------



## Yob (27/11/15)

TimT said:


> Say I was to lash out and make a 1 gallon mead


whats that? Whats a Gallon.. isn't that a hat?





UK Gallon? = 4.546 litre
US Gallon = 3.785 litre


----------



## Yob (27/11/15)

Danwood has had a crack recently, check out his BB thread for details

for convenience




Danwood said:


> My batch was ~22L @ 1071 OG
> 
> Which was either 1 or 1.5 buckets (3 or 4.5kg) of honey. I wasn't really chasing anything specific ABV wise, just somewhere around the 7-8%ABV.
> Unfortunately, I can't remember if I needed to add a spare half bucket from inside the house or not...sorry, notes are not my strong suit.
> ...


----------



## pajs (27/11/15)

Might be worth clarifying that what you mean is honey from native stingless bee species - not honey from introduced bees foraging on Australian native plants.


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

Yep, thanks Pajs. Sounds like Danwood is just using normal honey from _Melissa officinalis. _I'm talking about _Trigona_/_Tetragonula. _Wee little black beasties which can't sting (plus!), but produce much less honey (minus!) than _Melissa_. A main reason for the much higher price. 

I suppose it would be cheaper to use Sugarbag honey as an adjunct in a beer. Maybe add in towards the end of primary fermentation.


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

_Melissa_ honey has a heap of enzymes that could potentially help in mashing, fermentation, and preservation. So it makes me wonder what is in _Tetragonula_ honey.


----------



## technobabble66 (27/11/15)

TimT said:


> . Sounds like Danwood is just using normal honey from _Melissa officinalis.._.


(Pssst, Tim, Melissa officinalis = Lemon Balm h34r: )


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

Other weird things to ferment: _sugar lerp_.


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

_(Pssst, Tim, Melissa officinalis = Lemon Balm  h34r: )_

Yeah. That. Fuckin' lemon balm with it's hives and it's evil stinging beasties... (laughs uncomfortably) Er, _apis mellifera, _sorry folks?


----------



## pajs (27/11/15)

Apparently native stingless bee expert Dr Tim Heard has a book coming out early next year on these critters and the honey. Fascinating older piece from 2001 here: http://www.sugarbag.net/resources/Stingless.bees.Ecos.2001.pdf

I didn't realise there were so many different stingless bee species in Australia. If you ever get to see the spiral structures they build in their hives up close, it's pretty amazing.


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

Yeah they're great. Australians only native social bee, I think - if I heard that bee expert at our bee group meeting a few months ago right. So at some point in Australia's biological history, these stingless bees just naturally started sticking together and collecting honey in hives, just like the _Apis mellifera_ on the continent. Fascinating.


----------



## Airgead (27/11/15)

TimT said:


> Other weird things to ferment: _sugar lerp_.


Did you know that Bellbirds (Manorina melanophrys since we are into scientific names here) exclusively eat lerps. And they almost farm the little insects and encourage their spread to the point where they will actually degrade the trees. So the sound of Bellbirds is the sound of trees under serious insect attack. 

Would be interesting to brew with but an absolute bugger to collect enough. Imagine collecting a kilo or two of tiny little lerps. Unless you trained a Bellbird I suppose.


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

Or become a lerp farmer.


----------



## TimT (27/11/15)

I know a brewer who brews with lerp in the US. They have the opposite problem over there. Lerp psyllids have no natural predators over there, so they run wild over the imported gum trees.


----------



## Danwood (28/11/15)

Yob said:


> Danwood has had a crack recently, check out his BB thread for details
> 
> for convenience


 (Cheers for taking the time to cut and paste, J)


pajs said:


> Might be worth clarifying that what you mean is honey from native stingless bee species - not honey from introduced bees foraging on Australian native plants.





TimT said:


> Yep, thanks Pajs. Sounds like Danwood is just using normal honey from _Melissa officinalis. _I'm talking about _Trigona_/_Tetragonula. _Wee little black beasties which can't sting (plus!), but produce much less honey (minus!) than _Melissa_. A main reason for the much higher price.
> 
> I suppose it would be cheaper to use Sugarbag honey as an adjunct in a beer. Maybe add in towards the end of primary fermentation.


Yep...just to clarify, the honey I used is from European honey bees feeding on Australian flora.

The social native species (the vast majority of natives are solitary, not social) are very tricky to work effectively and only produce a fraction of the yields of Europeans.

It's an interesting topic, though. I'll ask the boss about native bee honey tomorrow ( I'm in Mildura doing bee work for a few weeks at the moment ) and I'll report back.

Ed-Didn't read the whole thread before replying...excuse my repeating what others already stated.


----------



## Danwood (28/11/15)

Ok, so I did a bit of brain picking this morning. I read through a study paper the FIL dug out on natives too.

As said, native bee honey is very strongly flavoured. It can range from a more regular honey flavour (but super charged), to a slight sourness and sometimes a bit of lemon can creep in too. As with all honey, it can vary a fair bit.
The 3 types of social natives most commonly kept are Tetragonula Carbonaria, T.Hockingsi and Austroplebeia Australis...
http://www.nativebees.com.au/Stingless-Bees

They only produce ~1kg per year, as opposed to the 60+kg from Mellifera (European honey bee). They are also sooks when it gets cold and are mostly found in the north of Aus, preferring tropical and sub-tropical climates.
Some crops use natives for pollination. Passion fruit being one, but unfortunately, this doesn't yield honey due to being low in nectar. Shame...passion fruit honey would be interesting.

So, Tim, you're going to have to make friends with some QLD native beekeepers and/or get your credit card out. Personally, I think there's plenty of different types of (Mellifera) honey to go at first, which are more easily accessible.

But report back though, if you do decide to splash out on some native honey.

Cheers, Dan


----------



## TimT (28/11/15)

Yep, maybe a safe option would be to just buy a bit and use it as an adjunct in a low gravity beer that would be likely to show the honey qualities. 

I presume the honey is removed by the crush-and-strain method? That's how we harvest our honey and that's also how I get must for my meads - I take the sticky honey-drenched lumps of wax post-crush and soak them in water. Then I have a honey-rich must and some cleanish beeswax that I can render. 

(Raises another question: what happens to their beeswax?)


----------



## evoo4u (28/11/15)

Danwood said:


> They are also sooks when it gets cold and are mostly found in the north of Aus, preferring tropical and sub-tropical climates.


+1

As in brewing, the temperature has to be just right! Too cold, or too hot, and they won't come out!

We see them, along with your common garden-variety bees, in our (SE Qld) olive grove during flowering. Although they say that olive pollination is predominantly by wind, it's always great to see them. I took this pic in last month, but they are tiny little critters, and full sacs don't contain much honey!


----------



## Danwood (28/11/15)

I read a bit about their hive structure too. 

The brood is in the centre, surrounded by irregular pollen and honey stores. The material they use is darker and heavier than in Mellifera hives.
This is called cerumen, and is a mix of beeswax and propolis, and it has a larger plant resin proportion compared to Mellifera (so, basically just a large percentage of propolis).

Ed- And as a side note, most natives like blue flowers apparently. So, have a look around your Lavender etc if you want to know if they're in your garden.


----------



## TimT (28/11/15)

Yeah we wouldn't have the social species here in Melbourne. Gets too cold for them.


----------

