# K&k Benchmark Brew



## Bribie G (20/7/08)

Since getting back into brewing recently (on to brew 11) I've never let the dreaded cane sugar anywhere near the fermenter, using kits plus LDME or liquid ME, dex, maltodex, hop teabags etc.

Most of my brews are at least $20, up to around $30 for a Morgans kit +large can of ME + teabag.

It struck me whether, by spending more than twice the dollars of a K&K, was I actually getting a 'must have' experience, considering that at the heart of the brew is just a kit? 

The above mentioned $30 brew has turned out very very nice rich copper coloured smooth beer, and I'm making it again as I see the value there but a couple of lighter kits + 750 dex + 500 LDME + Cluster have ended up well, a bit unspectacular although I'm sampling them fairly young. What I was trying for was a strongish, but refreshing crisp quaffing lager but I find them a bit sweet, malty and "chewy" for what I require. Also I'm getting some disappointing chill hazes with the Coopers (but not the Morgans so it's not the LDME) which deters me from throwing too much extra money at a Coopers kit.

So for a 'benchmark' exercise, prompted by recommendations on another thread in this Kits subforum I went to BILO today and bought a Brigalow Bitter plus a kilo of the pure white and deadly. Total $10.75. Will mix it up forthwith.

I'll bump this thread in about six weeks and do a full report.


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## clarkey7 (20/7/08)

BribieG said:


> Since getting back into brewing recently (on to brew 11) I've never let the dreaded cane sugar anywhere near the fermenter, using kits plus LDME or liquid ME, dex, maltodex, hop teabags etc.
> 
> Most of my brews are at least $20, up to around $30 for a Morgans kit +large can of ME + teabag.
> 
> ...



Bribie,

I made kit beers for 3 years and was sweet...You can make great beers and be happy drinking them and serving them to your friends.
There is a fantastic range available....BUT not all kits are created equal.
If your making 22L batches, its more than 2 cartons beer for 30 bucks......

Don't skimp to save a few dollars......you will be disappointed with the results.

Good luck with it all.

PB


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## dc59 (20/7/08)

The third ever kit brew I made was a budget brew. Did everything as cheap as I could, mainly cause I was still at uni and broke, but also to see if it was really worth speading the extra money.

I found that with home brewing, you really get what you paid for, and not surprisingly, the beer was ordinary.

Never used the Brigalow kit before so hopefully it comes good, at least it should be drinkable.

Very interested to see how it goes, be sure to let us know.


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## Thunderlips (20/7/08)

If your going to spend $30 on a kit it's hard to go past the 3kg ESB tins which include a good safale yeast.

6 weeks!
Jeez, it must be hard waiting that long.
Kegs man!


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## Mantis (20/7/08)

Thunderlips said:


> If your going to spend $30 on a kit it's hard to go past the 3kg ESB tins which include a good safale yeast.
> 
> 6 weeks!
> Jeez, it must be hard waiting that long.
> Kegs man!



Just bought an ESB 3kg Bavarian Wheat can. Will give it a go this week when fermenter becomes available. Not sure whether to add any fermentables etc or just go can only.


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## dc59 (20/7/08)

If it's your first time using that can I'd be tempted to go as is.

They're suppose to be really good kits, and will give you a reference point to start tweaking if you choose to brew with it again.

But back on topic, it will be interesting to see how Bribie's new brew compares to some of his more expensive efforts.


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## Barley Belly (20/7/08)

BribieG said:


> So for a 'benchmark' exercise, prompted by recommendations on another thread in this Kits subforum I went to BILO today and bought a Brigalow Bitter plus a kilo of the pure white and deadly. Total $10.75. Will mix it up forthwith.



I'm drinking my first ever brew (have No10 & 11 in the fermenters) at the moment it is a Toohey's Special Draught Kit which set me back $9.95 (on special) and combined it with a $3.50 bag of dextrose, fermented for 7 days with kit yeast at 24 deg, primed with white sugar for 7 days @ 24deg, tasted early was a bit bland and watery, it's now aged 2 months in the bottle and starting to be a nice drop for the money.

Thinking of doing it again and drop the temp to 18deg and adding a 50/50 mix of LDME/Dextrose and see how that goes.


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## Beer&Kebab (21/7/08)

Ok, I'll confess.. I have brewed home brand draught + 1kg of white sugar many many times.. It makes cheap very drinkable swill for under 10 bucks.. I had a mate visit yesterday who only ever drinks euro imports.. He brought over a few Grolshies (as well as 20 empties for me - god bless him .. We had a couple of those then straight into the home brand draught.. Sure there is a difference.. But nobody complained..(when it is free who ever does ?) Quite often I even add lemon or maybe green ginger wine (I know it sounds girlie).. I see it as a point of dimishing returns.. Is $30 brew better than a $10.. Certainly.. I don't think it is 3 times better though.. It is what works for you.. Having said all this I am brewing a Coopers Euro lager right now for $20.. I reckon It will turn out pretty good.

1 can of Coopers Euro lager $11.80
750gms of Liquid Wheat Malt $5.50
250 gms of Carahell $1.20
20 gms of Tettenanger  $1.50

Total $20.00

Brewed to 18ltrs ='s 2 cases of beer at $10 a case.. Good value IMHO..

Good luck BribieG


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## Bribie G (21/7/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> Quite often I even add lemon or maybe green ginger wine (I know it sounds girlie).. I see it as a point of dimishing returns..



Sounds like the pommie favourite "lager and lime", a pint of 3.2% lager with a dash of yellow lime cordial - at least it used to give the Harp or Carling Black Label a bit of flavour :lol:


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## Noxious (21/7/08)

From my experience, any kit yeast brewed over 20C will have a certain taste which I can only describe as undesirable and detract from the malt and hop flavours beer should include!
I spend around $35-45 for a brew and always end up with some hops left over for an experiment at a later date.
The extra few dollars for yeast are invaluable and temp control thereafter has seen a marked improvement in my brews, to which now Im more than just proud to have made beer but proud of the flavour of my beer...


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## The Big Burper (22/7/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> .......................I see it as a point of dimishing returns.. Is $30 brew better than a $10.. Certainly.. I don't think it is 3 times better though.. It is what works for you..
> ...................




This is an important point for our fiscally challenged (me) members of the forum.

I'll be kegging my Brigalow and white sugar el cheapo brew. I'll give my opinion in a
couple of weeks.

Brigalow deserve a bit of support though, little Aussie battler company.  


cheers
Dave


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## Bribie G (22/7/08)

The Big Burper said:


> Brigalow deserve a bit of support though, little Aussie battler company.



They have been around for thirty years at least, so as I stated in another thread they are presumably doing something right. I picked up the other can of Club Gold you left for me at the Woolies  . I notice that it is 'specially formulated for midstrength'. Life's too short for light beer so I'll be chucking in the kilo (raw sugar). Maybe the 'specially formulated' means better hopping rate or something? Interesting.

On the subject of bargain brews I did a straightforward toucan with 2 cans of Coopers Lager on special. No additives, just the cans. Cracked a young bottle just now, took a slurp and immediately thought "now what's that flavour... I've tasted it recently and it's almost exactly the same....." Then it hit me.. Skol SuperLager from 1st choice liquor. The 9% widowmaker. Tastes almost identical. Hope it doesn't change too much as it ages.

For about $20 that's what I call a bargain, as the 500ml can of superlager is about five bucks  Might slip a kilo into the next brew and bring it up to matching strength h34r:


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## Beer&Kebab (23/7/08)

BribieG said:


> For about $20 that's what I call a bargain, as the 500ml can of superlager is about five bucks  Might slip a kilo into the next brew and bring it up to matching strength h34r:




Crikey.. 9% is pretty heavy.. I wonder if the Coopers yeast can handle that even if you pitch both yeasts ?


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## Swinging Beef (23/7/08)

Mantis said:


> Just bought an ESB 3kg Bavarian Wheat can. Will give it a go this week when fermenter becomes available. Not sure whether to add any fermentables etc or just go can only.


ESB bavarian wheat is one of the best kits around.
Other than dry hopping or using better yeast, leave this one alone.
It will taste brilliant!


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## Bribie G (23/7/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> Crikey.. 9% is pretty heavy.. I wonder if the Coopers yeast can handle that even if you pitch both yeasts ?


When I was just messing around a couple of months ago and getting back into brewing I did a Coopers Stout and accidentally put in 2 kilos of raw sugar. It fermented out fine in about ten days and ended up fairly thin tasting and dry, not to mention feral strength! I have a javascript alcohol calculator I got off the net which calculates that 3kg of sugar in 25 L will produce 9% so the 2kg of sugar plus whatever is the dry weight of fermentables in a Coopers kit should at least hit 9% and the ale yeast handled it just fine.

The only way I could drink it was to cut it in the jug with a Tallie of Carlton Mid :icon_drool2:


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## mikeintmba (23/7/08)

I have spent years doing k&k off and on but have felt the commercial stuff was better.I have tasted a fellow homebrewers which was a modified kit and thought wow, wish I could do that. The last few months I have been spending heaps on hops, yeast and malt and experimenting with it all to try and make a really nice beer. Last effort that I just finished off was a home brand draught with 500g LDME , 250g suger and 1 plug of Hallertau hops boiled for an hour. Cost me over $20 and wasnt bad. I have also started cleaning better, ie removing the fermenter tap to clean and using bleach. Tonight I opened a brew that was simply a coopers real ale with 500g dextrose and bugger me it tasted pretty good in comparison and the bloody head lasts to the end of the glass. My brews prior to all this had a homebrew taste which I put down to cleanliness issues and too high ferment temps. So I believe the simple stuff can make a difference to taste regardless of the ingredients used. My quest is to find a nice beer that I can make and continue to make it myself.


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## Brewtus (23/7/08)

I have been thinking along the same line. I think my own time is valuable so I am happy to spend the money but only if it gets results. If I think my time is worth at least $20/hr and to brew, bottle and clean up thats about 2hrs per brew than $10 for ingredients totals $50 a brew and $30 on ingredients means a $70 brew. Therefore with this logic if a $30($70) brew is twice as good as a $10($50) than I am in front.

No the less I am doing a Farmland Larger Toucan with good Pilsner (lager) yeast. Will advise how it goes.


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## KGB (23/7/08)

Good thread BribieG, I like the idea, not only for a basic brew but also a brew you can use as a "reliable" and easy brew to have on hand and to make up easily when you need to make something and know it will (should) turn out pretty all right.
The best example I've come across so far was a toucan that sounds very similar to yours, although I believe mine was 1x Coopers Lager and 1x Farmland draught. Decent results for absolute minimum effort.


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## Mantis (23/7/08)

Swinging Beef said:


> ESB bavarian wheat is one of the best kits around.
> Other than dry hopping or using better yeast, leave this one alone.
> It will taste brilliant!



Ok, will do. Thanks
Sorry to be off topic here eh


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## Interloper (24/7/08)

KGB said:


> The best example I've come across so far was a toucan that sounds very similar to yours, although I believe mine was 1x Coopers Lager and 1x Farmland draught. Decent results for absolute minimum effort.



Did you use both yeasts or just the Coopers Lager?

Sounds like a nice cheapy...


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## Weizguy (24/7/08)

Swinging Beef said:


> ESB bavarian wheat is one of the best kits around.
> Other than dry hopping or using better yeast, leave this one alone.
> It will taste brilliant!


Did you use the dry yeast supplied?

I brewed it (admittedly years ago, when the lhbs stocked it) with W3056 yeast, as it was labelled as Bavarian.

Anyway, I got a load of hop flavour which hung around, almost to the last bottle, which overpowered any Bavarian flavour from the yeast.
It may have been that I was used to more subtlety, or that I was expecting a certain style.

My friends enjoyed it, but I cared little for it. It was always a bit scary for my taste-buds.

SO, ...please be aware of mis-labelling, and don't rely on the name. Check the ingredients and description of what the beer should turn out to be. Labelling can be misleading, with the prime example of Victoria Bitter, which is not a bitter, and some might say that it's not a lager either (dog's bath water, perhaps?)


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## 0M39A (24/7/08)

BribieG said:


> When I was just messing around a couple of months ago and getting back into brewing I did a Coopers Stout and accidentally put in 2 kilos of raw sugar. It fermented out fine in about ten days and ended up fairly thin tasting and dry, not to mention feral strength! I have a javascript alcohol calculator I got off the net which calculates that 3kg of sugar in 25 L will produce 9% so the 2kg of sugar plus whatever is the dry weight of fermentables in a Coopers kit should at least hit 9% and the ale yeast handled it just fine.
> 
> The only way I could drink it was to cut it in the jug with a Tallie of Carlton Mid :icon_drool2:



I think you need a new calculator...

3.7kg of sugar (a 1.7kg kit and 2kg sugar) in 25L will only give you an sg of 1057

I've made a twocan coopers stout + 1kg dark malt a few times, and only mixed to 21L-22L and it comes in at just over 8%


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## KGB (24/7/08)

Interloper said:


> Did you use both yeasts or just the Coopers Lager?
> 
> Sounds like a nice cheapy...



Just the Coopers IIRC.


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## Bribie G (24/7/08)

Sorry, you're dead right, I misread the calculator, 3 kg should only give 7.1 (so the Coopers yeast wouldn't have been fazed !!)

If anyone's interested, here's the code, just copy it and insert into Notepad then save as alcstrength.html or whatever you feel like - as long as it's an .html and you can open it with Firefox or IE and it should run fine:

<html>
<center>
<h2><font color="#ff0000">Preparing a Sugar Based Wort</h2></font>


<form name="sc">
<center>
<table bgcolor="#add8e6" cellpadding="4" border="2" rules="none" bordercolor="black">
<tbody>
<tr>

<td colspan="3"><input size="4" value=" 5" name="a">
<select name="weight"> 
<option value="1">kg</option>
<option value="0.45359237">lb</option>
</select> sugar made up to
<input size="4" value=" 20" name="b">
<select name="amount">
<option value="1">L</option>

<option value="0.946352946">US qt</option>
<option value="3.7854118">US gal</option>
</select> total volume
</td> 
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="3">should have an SG <input size="5" name="s"> and only require
<input size="5" name="wreq">

<select name="wreqt">
<option value="1">L</option>
<option value="1.05668820943">US qt</option>
<option value="0.264172052358">US gal</option>
</select> of water 
</td>
</tr>


<tr>
<td> and should produce a wort of <input size="5" name="at"> % alcohol 
</td>

<td align="right" valign="bottom"> <input onclick="
x=sc.a.value*sc.weight.value;
y=sc.b.value*sc.amount.value;
sc.s.value=Math.round(((258.6+(87.96*x/y))+Math.sqrt(66874+(7736.96*x*x/(y*y))+(57947*x/y)))/517.2 *1000)/1000;
sc.wreq.value= Math.round(((y * sc.s.value) - x)*sc.wreqt.value*100)/100;
sc.at.value=Math.round(sc.a.value*sc.weight.value*1000/17/(sc.b.value*sc.amount.value)*10)/10;
"value="Calculate" tr="" type="button">
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table></center>
</form>
</html>


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## mouapp12 (28/7/08)

BribieG said:


> Sorry, you're dead right, I misread the calculator, 3 kg should only give 7.1 (so the Coopers yeast wouldn't have been fazed !!)
> 
> If anyone's interested, here's the code, just copy it and insert into Notepad then save as alcstrength.html or whatever you feel like - as long as it's an .html and you can open it with Firefox or IE and it should run fine:


inline code! my teacher would have a fit  


i understood from the AHB wiki article that table sugar would make it too sweet, or is it closer to pure chance whats gonna be in it?

dose anyone know what % the average kit yest will last up to? 

i was thinking of doing an ultra strong cheep batch for my birthday, though i guess i shouldn't go nuts, above 8% will probably make it undrinkable

EDIT: also when you guys say drinkable are we talking VB drinkable, budweiser drinkable or red bitter "drinkable"


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## Brewtus (28/7/08)

Brewtus said:


> No the less I am doing a Farmland Larger Toucan with good Pilsner (lager) yeast. Will advise how it goes.



First taste while racked to a cube is it is very bitter with out that much flavour. Might need to do a hop boil with the priming sugar.

Is this a new idea to save a not so hoppy beer?


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## The Big Burper (3/8/08)

The Big Burper said:


> I'll be kegging my Brigalow and white sugar el cheapo brew. I'll give my opinion in a
> couple of weeks.




I might have to disqualify myself, the yeast in the kit didn't show much signs of life after
38 hours, so, being an impatient bastard, I added some wort from my other carboy which was brewing a Coopers Euro lager. Bubbling along nicely now. Got the heater on this one, constant 21, so see how the lager yeast at this temp affects the taste, but the 'el cheapo' experiment is screwed.

What happens when you introduce another yeast strain?. Do they intermingle  , or does one take over completely, sort of a yeast type ethnic cleansing? 

cheers
Dave


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## warra48 (3/8/08)

I don't ever knock K&K brewers. It's the starting point for many of us. Having said that, I don't think you will ever brew a batch with just a kit and 1kg which will equal the quality of what you can brew with a little more effort.

I now brew AG, but I really do think you can get close with unhopped extract, your own hops choice, good yeast, and controlled fermentation temperatures. If you are advanturous you can add some specialty grains.

One of my golfing compadres has recently got into K&K brewing. He has to date used just the kit and the 1kg white sugar. He asked me recently what is the deal with the BE1 and BE2 he sees in the supermarket. I explained he should see an improvement in the quality of his beers if he uses those or, if he likes some more malt character, he could use 1kg of dry malt extract.

Just to seal the deal, I've gave him some samples of an APA and a dunkelweizen. I haven't seen him since, but I'm looking forward to his feedback.

I gave some samples of a hefeweizen, American brown ale, and APA to another of my golfing mates. He enjoyed them and volunteered it's the first time ever he has drunk HB that doesn't taste like cider.

To get back on thread, I think the problem with a lot of the Brigalow kits is not necessarily due to the quality or otherwise of the kits, but the lousy 5 or 6 grams of generic yeast they supply. Stressed yeast at too high a temperature doesn't bode well for a good result.


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## Bribie G (3/8/08)

The Big Burper said:


> I might have to disqualify myself, the yeast in the kit didn't show much signs of life after
> 38 hours, so, being an impatient bastard, I added some wort from my other carboy which was brewing a Coopers Euro lager.
> cheers
> Dave



Identical experience here. My Brigalow is STILL bubbling away slowly after 15 days. Like yours it was very sluggish to start. I reckon the yeast is designed to ferment at over 20 degrees here in Queensland for most of the year and the recent chilly snap (its been between 14 and 18 in my garage for a while) has just completely whacked the yeast. I warmed the fermenter up to about 22 for a couple of days and it really took off, but back to a slow bubble again now. I'll just let it take its course and eveeeeentually report on the brew.  

Haven't done the club gold yet as the Brigalow Bitter is 'squatting' in the fermenter. Have now obtained some Tettnang hops and might do an 'enhanced' brew with it and use one of my spare Morgans yeasts hanging around. Will still come in for less than about twelve bucks and see if that turns out more drinkable.

Edit: another of my blasts from the past: when I brewed in my previous life in Maryborough and Bundaberg it was a 'given' that you didn't bother brewing much between May and September because it was too cold. Yes we are talking Central Queensland here. And the only widely available brew kit in those days was Brigalow. Go figure as our American Cousins say B)


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## The Big Burper (5/8/08)

warra48 said:


> I don't ever knock K&K brewers. It's the starting point for many of us. Having said that, I don't think you will ever brew a batch with just a kit and 1kg which will equal the quality of what you can brew with a little more effort.




Warra,

That wasn't the point of this thread. We are trying to get an acceptable drop by the
cheapest method. We are referring to a previous post on another thread that this bloke reckons his mates raved on about his brew made with Brigalow and white sugar, so that is the experiment being conducted here, can we get a reasonably good el cheapo beer using the basic ingredients.

I normally never use white sugar, and prefer extra malt. The dextrose component is then computed at 37% of the total malt. I keg my brews and dry hop with Cluster.
Couldn't be bothered with AG, I am happy with the brews I am producing now. 

Coopers Lager/ Real Ale, with extra malt and hops is a fine drop of ale, as far as I am concerned. Morgans also produce a very good brew. 

'Orses for courses. B) 

cheers
Dave


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## The Big Burper (5/8/08)

BribieG said:


> Identical experience here. My Brigalow is STILL bubbling away slowly after 15 days. Like yours it was very sluggish to start. I reckon the yeast is designed to ferment at over 20 degrees here in Queensland for most of the year and the recent chilly snap (its been between 14 and 18 in my garage for a while) has just completely whacked the yeast. I warmed the fermenter up to about 22 for a couple of days and it really took off, but back to a slow bubble again now. I'll just let it take its course and eveeeeentually report on the brew.




Hi BG, 

Yeah, slow as. I use 2 fermenters and 2 kegs, and have it worked out that the brew stays in the fermenter 14 days and is then kegged up. This lager yeast buggers up the time-table. 

I have got this Brigalow clone, and a Coopers Euro Lager both bubbling away in the laundry, and my timetable is shot. Have to resort to some nice Coopers Bitter (made with an extra can of Coopers Dark Malt) for a couple of days. This will be hard to take.  

cheers
Dave.


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## johnm64 (5/8/08)

My cheap benchmark brew was a Farmland lager $8 + 1kg Dextrose $2.44
Total cost $10.44 pretty damn cheep.
A drinkable brew , that is compared to my first 3 or 4 brews
which I used white sugar in.  (thats what the instructions say :lol: )
In fact all my first 12 brews came in under $16
Still cheap IMHO
Coopers or Tooheys on special $9 + Brew enhancer 1 $5.95
I have now raised the bar higher.
Cascade tins $10 + LDM 1kg $7.95 + Hops $5.95
Still under $25 for 23ltrs
Like some I do brew on a budget,that is instead of spending $35 a week
on commercial beer i buy $35 worth of homebrew gear.
With all the great info on here :beerbang: I can brew K&K and get something thats drinkable,
also have mates drinking it now.Also doesnt give me a bad head the next day.  

johnm64


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## Bribie G (6/8/08)

johnm64 said:


> Hops $5.95



  Do you get them hand delivered by a Nubian Eunuch wearing silver slippers or something ????  

Try Craftbrewer (Sponsor) and you will get magnificent product for far less, I pay about a dollar for a K&K enhancement and up to three dollars for a good hop blast for a recipe extract brew. Check website


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## captaincleanoff (6/8/08)

I have one suggestion for all in this thread brewing kits

BIAB


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## Bribie G (6/8/08)

I would love to do all grain, including BIAB, but at the moment I can spare maybe half an hour tops to mix a kit, do some hop boiling while the grains steep etc. I don't have a couple of hours to a mash, bag or not, and don't have the equipment. And there is nobody within 50km that stocks grains. Yup and I don't intend to pay ten bucks per brew to have it couriered either. However with the kits available nowadays, as pointed out, good drinkable beer is available not only from kits but from extract recipe beers.

The point of this thread is to do some experiments to look at the rock bottom kit products and see if, at the end of the day, are they drinkable and do the $30 alternatives actually offer two or three times the value? It's just a 'diversion' from our usual kits n bits brews. 

Not knocking BIAB: it has a strong following and good luck to them.


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## The Big Burper (9/8/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> I have one suggestion for all in this thread brewing kits
> 
> BIAB




What's BIAB, I thought it was one of those upside down trees found up north. :huh: 

Back to the el cheapo brew. A complete failure. I tossed it out yesterday, wort tasted worse than a warm VB. :icon_vomit: Using sugar and a cheap kit is a waste of time.

Youse can all now say "I told you so"  

cheers,
Dave


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## Bribie G (9/8/08)

AFAIK brew in a bag (BIAB) is where, instead of a dedicated mash tun, you mash the brew in a big nylon bag in a vessel and when it's mashed you withdraw it to leave the sweet wort in the vessel (presumably the boiling vessel) and sparge as you go to extract the sugars still clinging in the mash. Then fire up and boil. I used to do that in the 1970s in the UK in a Baby Burco boiler. Good system if you don't mind wrestling pillow sized bags of damp grain etc. Not sure how you ensure an even mash temperature, the burco could be set to 68 degrees or whatever and it would do a fair approximation. Other people used to do the bag in an esky and again it would do a reasonably good mash. Excellent system (on a small scale) for doing a partial. Might actually try the latter thing myself with a kilo of grain as it's only just a bit more work than using carapils or crystal malt. 

On topic I bottled the Brigalow Bitter 2 days ago. Sneak taste was uninspiring, it reminded me - surprise surprise - of BRIGALOW home brew :lol: :lol: I'll crack one at the end of next week and see if it's drinkable. I cheated on the Brigalow Club Gold and pepped it up with some Tettnang pellets and used a spare Morgans Yeast. Going like a train with the better yeast. Still coming in for less than $12 and hopefully more drinkable so it's still in the race. 

Seeing as you're a keg man, Dave, I don't blame you for chucking it as it would only have tied up a keg, on spec that it was going to improve to drinkable status. At least in my case it's only taking up room in some plastic


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## Bribie G (17/8/08)

Bump:
*Final Report on the Brigalow Bitter K&K *

*Objectives:* After doing a series of Kits n Bits brews I was getting some really good results and producing very drinkable beers. However they were working out at up to $30 per brew. Was I getting real good value? Lets do a supermarket plain K&K to investigate.

*Method:* Brigalow Bitter plus a kilo of white sugar, using kit yeast. Cost under $12. Fermented at around 18 degrees. 

*Fermentation:* Took 3 weeks. The rather pathetic little sprinkle of unidentified yeast took three days to kick off and the fermentation was unacceptably slow. By the end the beer had dropped almost bright despite a bloop every minute, so I bottled anyway. 

*Tasting notes:* It's only just over a week in the bottle but has carbed up well in the PET and is crystal clear so tried it yesterday. For starters there's no chill haze as opposed to most Coopers. Probably, considering the amount of corn syrup in the kit, there's not much protein in the beer to chill up :lol: 
Nose: no beer nose, no hop aroma at all.
First taste: Beer obviously has come out on specs as it is not infected or oxidized. It's sweet, then a cloying sensation, then a slightly bitter twang right at the back of the tongue, but not really hops. Other things are bitter of course like tea or coffee and it's supposed to be a beer, so you would expect to get some sort of bitterness. And that's what you get, 'some sort of bitterness'
No malt characteristics. 
A strange twang that I can't quite identify, maybe a cross between aniseed and nail polish. Obviously an ester. Not unpleasant but not beerlike.

Nice carbonation on the tongue, and then it hits me what the beer resembles. Have you ever tasted Tasman Bitter from Liquorland? That's bad enough but they now have a Tasman Gold (3.5%) and that's a really sad brew. Now, if you were to go down one peg in the food chain and imagine what a hypothetical Tasman Lite would taste like, this Brigalow would about fit the bill.

Being super bland but not too objectionable you would think that a few glasses would go down well as a lawnmower thirst quencher. Problem is that each subsequent glass the cloying sweetness and strange twang builds up so that eventually I think "I can't do this any more.. please let it stop :blink: :blink: "

*BRILLIANT solution:* I'm not going to throw the brew out, I put a dash of Chilled Roses yellow lime cordial in it and got the CLASSIC pommy lager and lime ladies drink from the 1970s. Tried it on the Mrs and stepdaughter and they liked it. 5% alcopop, basically.


*Conclusion:* Worst HB I've tasted. However I may be absolutely crazy but heck I might make this again coming up to Christmas with 2kg and turn it into cheap and easy Lemon Russkies etc :lol: . And use a Saflager as well.


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## mwd (17/8/08)

Sounds exactly like the Coopers Draught the boys make at work on the sly in one of those big round Eskies at about 25C and an estimated kilo of white sugar.

My less than stellar bland brew also Brigalow I mix 50-50 with Coopers Stout makes up the volumes and tastes O.K. when you are not in the mood for a full on stout hit.


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## quantocks (17/8/08)

crap, my first ever brew is Brigalow Bitter 

it's slowly fermenting now.


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## Brewtus (17/8/08)

Bribie,

Thanks for the research. It justifies the extra effort for kits'n'bits. When considered with the other thread, 'liguid malt' the next challenge is to find the kit with the best malt, a good hoppy bitterness and bugger all flavour or aroma hops so it, with a can of LME can be the base of a good 'quick boil extract' (QBE).


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## jojai (17/8/08)

Why not just use two cans of unhopped extract?


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## Brewtus (17/8/08)

Then what can I add that saves me from boiling bittering hops for an hour?

Kits'n'bits take less than one hour start to finish. Unhopped extract brewing takes an hour to set up, pack up plus maybe one and a half hours to boil and chill.

My aim is to do a concentrated boil of LME, 6l water and Hops, 15 min max, add to fermenter with kit and let the cold water do the chilling. I hope to have something far better than a kit but take far less time than extract. Typical KnBs (that almost spells Knobs) do this but the kit can add a profile you don't want. With a kit that adds bittering and not much else the problem is gone. Maybe some clever kit company can come out with a 'hop bittered LME' or a Extract Brew Base in Lager, Ale, Red Ale, porter, Stout etc. so they give you the malt profile and bitterness. Might be a bit niche' but what the heh?


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## Bribie G (19/8/08)

jojai said:


> Why not just use two cans of unhopped extract?


You mean for producing a fizzy alcoholic liquid for turning into alcopops? Trouble with malt extract is that I would end up with a brew that actually TASTED of something!  the Beauty of the Brigalow is that it tastes of virtually nothing except a sort of fruity sweetness so the Lime cordial, blackcurrant, lemon etc would nicely mask it. I can see a niche here for Brigalow .. they already do a ginger beer and a cider, maybe they should do an 'alcopop' base to brew out with two kilos of sugar which should give a nice 6.5 to 7.0 % brew. With a decent yeast that is.


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## buttersd70 (19/8/08)

Sugaz. It's spelled _sugaz_. :lol:


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## Barley Belly (21/8/08)

Thinkin of puttin down a BI-LO Homebrand Draught XMAS Toucan
Lookin' to do one totally sourced from BILO (have been doin all Morgans & Brewcraft kits and bits lately, sourced from my LHBS)
Wantin' a High Alc%, drinkable brew for Xmas, on the cheap

Possibly:-

2 Tins Home Brand Draught
1kg Honey
1kg Dex
Maybe some LDME
Probably the 2 kit yeasts or could use yeast cake off Morgan's Royal Oak Amber Ale in primary now


Just thought I'd put it out there for some thoughts, as I haven't attempted a toucan before and haven't used honey.


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## Brewtus (21/8/08)

Make sure you heat the honey to 80 for 10 min to kill the greeblies. It will taste bitter so you need some extra hops to balance it. That much honey will be a strong flavour and you may need some pretty fit yeast.


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