# I Hate No-chill



## jbirbeck (19/11/10)

Not for the first time I've had a beer spontaneously ferment in a no-chill cube sealed up tightly, spotlessly clean or new. I rarely no-chill now having done it a few times and there have been a few too many occasions when the beer has decided to start fermenting. 

I prefer to use my chiller and get the ferment underway but a couple of weeks back I did up an Alt and decided to no-chill because it was getting late and I'd had enough. It has happily sat in the laundry cupboard for the best part of a month, untouched, undisturbed. but obviously something wasn't right...today I get the call that my cube of Alt has split and is spewing Alt all over the laundry...F%$^ing C%^t

no Chill sucks. F U No-Chill, F U Aussie disposals and your useless cubes. 

Saving a few minutes on brew day will cost me more time cleaning up the mess.


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## WarmBeer (19/11/10)

10 no-chills under the belt. Not a single swelling cube.

I refute your anecdote, and replace it with my own.


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## zebba (19/11/10)

You know that just because you are no chilling doesn't mean you have to leave it in the cube for a month... You coulda put it in the fermenter the next day, for example... derp.


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## wakkatoo (19/11/10)

I would like to add to yours. 12 no chills (so 22 total with our two combined), with no swelling.

Can't say I've got my cubes from aussie disposals tho, picked them up at a local supplier for what I remeber to be a pretty cheap price.

edit - doh, forgot to add Warmbeers post.


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## Supra-Jim (19/11/10)

Did it split due to a spontaneous ferment or was it just a cube failure? The cube could have been stress due to the contraction of the cooled liquid and over time this stress led to a split/failure?

Cheers SJ


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## Bribie G (19/11/10)

Mine's bigger than yours. Nyah Nyah -  well over a hundred no chills and stopped counting yonks ago, but never a spontaneous ferment yet. However I have never kept a cube for more than around 48 hours - usually hassling to get it into the fermenter. I guess that once you have had a wild fermentation then that cube is for the tip, which is sad at twenty bucks each :angry: I wouldn't take the risk of throwing another twenty bucks of ingredients into it.


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## peaky (19/11/10)

I have done 6 no chills without a drama but I usually just run into a fermenter now I have an extra fridge with temp control etc.

Maybe I'm missing something here but, why the hell would the cube swell?

Edit: must've posted about 10 seconds behind BribieG, your post popped up after I'd clicked to reply. Spontaneous fermentation aye? How does that happen?


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## brando (19/11/10)

I'm getting lazier the more I brew, and have just experimented with the "no-no-chill method"...

... just pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter, then into the fridge (@at 18 degrees) until morning, then pitch the yeast.

I know this breaks lots of rules, but the ESB I'm drinking was done this way and tastes great!


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## jbirbeck (19/11/10)

WarmBeer said:


> 10 no-chills under the belt. Not a single swelling cube.
> 
> I refute your anecdote, and replace it with my own.



Noted and accepted. Obviously a flaw at my end. Still hate it. I'll go back to chilling and add to the 150+ chilled brews of mine  



Zebba said:


> You know that just because you are no chilling doesn't mean you have to leave it in the cube for a month... You coulda put it in the fermenter the next day, for example... derp.



Quite right, but the supposed benefit of it is that it is in a sealed sterile environment...therefore I can keep it in the cube for a month to make way for other beers that tickle the fancy at the time. now in what sense are you using derp?



wakkatoo said:


> I would like to add to yours. 12 no chills (so 22 total with our two combined), with no swelling.
> 
> Can't say I've got my cubes from aussie disposals tho, picked them up at a local supplier for what I remeber to be a pretty cheap price.



Blah. come and grab some of my wild yeast, its a beaut, gets through cubes  . Maybe I should start filtering through an old tea towel and not bother cleaning anything before it goes in the cube.


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## fraser_john (19/11/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> Maybe I should start filtering through an old tea towel



This made me laugh, good for a Friday.

Sorry about your no-chill luck, hooray for CFC's and plate chillers.

<edit my own terrible spelling!>


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## jbirbeck (19/11/10)

Supra-Jim said:


> Did it split due to a spontaneous ferment or was it just a cube failure? The cube could have been stress due to the contraction of the cooled liquid and over time this stress led to a split/failure?
> 
> Cheers SJ



spontaneous ferment...leading to a cube failure. Could have had a minor flaw in the cube to begin with but it was all nicely sucked in last I checked all of two days ago. the Alt was due to go into a fermenter this weekend. Had fridges tied up with other beers the last few weeks, and had run out of kegs...Brew got done when it was convenient.


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## jbirbeck (19/11/10)

fraser_john said:


> This made me laugh, good for a Friday.
> 
> Sorry about your no-chill luck, hooray for CFC's and plate chillers.
> 
> <edit my own terrible spelling!>



Best beer ever is a chilled beer   disappointed to lose the Alt...but it does make way for a weekend of brewing good beer, running it through a chiller and having it fermenting before the day is through.


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## JestersDarts (19/11/10)

Surely it is the infections that you are hate, not the no chill method?


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## zebba (19/11/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> Quite right, but the supposed benefit of it is that it is in a sealed sterile environment...therefore I can keep it in the cube for a month to make way for other beers that tickle the fancy at the time. now in what sense are you using derp?LOL


LOL - I actually thought it meant something else! Retracted!

I thought, erroneously after some investigation, it gave the reply some kind of tongue in cheek feel. Didn't mean to call you a... you know.


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## gunbrew (19/11/10)

I have done the same a few times (pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter)

My new favourite is finish the boil in the birko.
Put gladwrap over the top and leave to cool to room temprature over night.
Transfer to fermenter next day.
Worked a treat for the last 4 brews.



brando said:


> I'm getting lazier the more I brew, and have just experimented with the "no-no-chill method"...
> 
> ... just pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter, then into the fridge (@at 18 degrees) until morning, then pitch the yeast.
> 
> I know this breaks lots of rules, but the ESB I'm drinking was done this way and tastes great!


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## petesbrew (19/11/10)

brando said:


> I'm getting lazier the more I brew, and have just experimented with the "no-no-chill method"...
> 
> ... just pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter, then into the fridge (@at 18 degrees) until morning, then pitch the yeast.
> 
> I know this breaks lots of rules, but the ESB I'm drinking was done this way and tastes great!


Glad to see I'm not the only one who no chills into the fermenter.
I even go as far as to put a bottlecap over the airlock hole to stop bugs getting in.


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## Stuster (19/11/10)

Over 100 no-chill beers with no failures until this also recently happened to me. It was a batch done at an ISB big brew day a few months back. This one had been sitting around for a while and only started to swell now the weather has warmed up a bit. I did notice it in time and loosened the cap so now I am hoping for a delicious spontaneous sour.


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## JestersDarts (19/11/10)

gunbrew said:


> I have done the same a few times (pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter)
> 
> My new favourite is finish the boil in the birko.
> Put gladwrap over the top and leave to cool to room temprature over night.
> ...



How does this go with your trub? do you find it helpls leave it in the kettle?


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## jbirbeck (19/11/10)

JestersDarts said:


> Surely it is the infections that you are hate, not the no chill method?



nah its the method :lol: 



Zebba said:


> LOL - I actually thought it meant something else! Retracted!
> 
> I thought, erroneously after some investigation, it gave the reply some kind of tongue in cheek feel. Didn't mean to call you a... you know.



I had to look it up and thought it was a bit off...



petesbrew said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one who no chills into the fermenter.
> I even go as far as to put a bottlecap over the airlock hole to stop bugs getting in.



I used to do this, or a slow chill to the fermenter when I did smaller batches until I hit problems with infections later on. The current house I'm in seems to be a hotbed of infections.



Stuster said:


> Over 100 no-chill beers with no failures until this also recently happened to me. It was a batch done at an ISB big brew day a few months back. This one had been sitting around for a while and only started to swell now the weather has warmed up a bit. I did notice it in time and loosened the cap so now I am hoping for a delicious spontaneous sour.



when its happened and I've caught it - bit of a re boil to kill off the nasties and ferment as usual. Works a treat. This one went too far and split the cube.

To be fair its only the thrid time its happened and I've saved the previous two brews with a boil. Had a few no-chills over the years that have worked as well.


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## Siborg (19/11/10)

I've never had a problem, except for the first time where I didn't adjust the hop schedule and ended up with a harsh, bitter, amarillo bomb.

I rinse with PBW, starsan and then the boiling wort. Probably overkill, but I've left a cube for around a month with no swelling. So well worth it.


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## MHB (19/11/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> Not for the first time I've had a beer spontaneously ferment in a no-chill cube sealed up tightly, spotlessly clean or new. I rarely no-chill now having done it a few times and there have been a few too many occasions when the beer has decided to start fermenting.
> 
> I prefer to use my chiller and get the ferment underway but a couple of weeks back I did up an Alt and decided to no-chill because it was getting late and I'd had enough. It has happily sat in the laundry cupboard for the best part of a month, untouched, undisturbed. but obviously something wasn't right...today I get the call that my cube of Alt has split and is spewing Alt all over the laundry...F%$^ing C%^t
> 
> ...


I'm probably going to get called names and have Nick accusing me of having an agenda involving separating you from your money, but frankly Aussie Disposals, let me guess they were the cheapest place you could find.
I have no idea how many dozen no-chills I have done, and have over the years sold hundreds of fresh wort kits essentially the same thing, without any trouble.
Points being the cubes were all good quality Australian made and not a cheap knockoff.
You get what you pay for, losing 1 brew more than makes up what you saved.

MHB


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## jbirbeck (19/11/10)

Siborg said:


> I rinse with PBW, starsan and then the boiling wort. Probably overkill, but I've left a cube for around a month with no swelling. So well worth it.



Same process for me.



MHB said:


> I'm probably going to get called names and have Nick accusing me of having an agenda involving separating you from your money, but frankly Aussie Disposals, let me guess they were the cheapest place you could find.
> I have no idea how many dozen no-chills I have done, and have over the years sold hundreds of fresh wort kits essentially the same thing, without any trouble.
> Points being the cubes were all good quality Australian made and not a cheap knockoff.
> You get what you pay for, losing 1 brew more than makes up what you saved.
> ...




Aussie disposals - most convenient at the time.

You do get what you pay for, never been happier when I part with my money for a quality piece of kit...always disappointed when i take the cheap option. But in this case really not fair to point the finger at cheap cubes as I've had 'quality' aussie made ones do the same. The only difference is I was there to save those before the cube split. Something is getting into my cubes. I'll chill and ferment.


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## HoppingMad (19/11/10)

Have 8 cubes. Have been using them in rotation for 3 years without issue. Even done some awesome lagers using them (yes shock horror - no DMS either - a common thing those chillers accuse cubes of nurturing).

Like Bribie though I don't let a cube of wort hang around long. Around a week is all I can deal with but normally 2 days max as well. I get too eager to get them fermenting.

Mind you I must add that I clean the bejesus out of them. First with a Karcher pressure washer to remove danglies, then bleach and thorough rinse. A clean cube = a clean beer. 

Keep on cubin' I say. Oh yeah - and 4 of mine are Aussie Disposals, so your post does make me a tad nervous. But so far they're in one piece.

Hopper.


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## gunbrew (19/11/10)

Exactly what happens,
Turb all settles overnight and clumps together below the tap level.




JestersDarts said:


> How does this go with your trub? do you find it helpls leave it in the kettle?


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## argon (19/11/10)

I recently got a swollen cube first one ever first infection in an AG brew thatd make 1 out of about 30+ batches

Not sure what happened. Luckily I do double batches into 2 cubes. Cube 1 was fine no infection, however the second had swollen up. 

I pitched the swollen one anyway just to see what would happen. When I opened the cube it had a small ring of gelatinized clearish/whitish gunk on the inside of the lid and opening. 

I did the usual method of filling and squeezing as much air as possible, sealing up, then tipping on the side to pasteurize the lid. Same method Ive always been using. Soak in PBW then starsan the cube and lid, shake it all around and leave it for at least 30 mins. Open the cube up just at flame out, pour out sanitizer, shake as mush foam out as possible, then drain the kettle into it so not sure where it picked up the infection.

Only thing I can think of is that the lid didn't seal properly... although it didnt leak and I had a hard time getting it off at pitching. 

I ended up fermenting and kegging and it came out fine... had a slightly sourish dryer finish to the other batch. Funnily enough i actually preferred it over the non-swollen version.

In your case it's obviously lost, cause it's on the floor... but not always is it worth tossing on the garden. I did end up binning the cube though, just to be safe.


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## stux (19/11/10)

gunbrew said:


> I have done the same a few times (pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter)
> 
> My new favourite is finish the boil in the birko.
> Put gladwrap over the top and leave to cool to room temprature over night.
> ...



Just put gladwrap over your birco and ferment there , then you can keg straight from the kettle...


--

If you're getting a lot of infections in your cubes, check their threads, does your cube have a drilled bung hole?

There is probably something wrong with you sanitation practises.


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## cdbrown (19/11/10)

I've done 30-odd no chills without any problems, even with extended storing times (2-3months). After each use they get filled with hot water and some napisan for extended soak, most of the time I'll just leave it like that till I need it and then give it a good rinse out paying attention to the bung which always has crud collected in there. I brew when I have the time and most of those occasions theres something already fermenting so no-chill is the best solution for me.


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## MHB (19/11/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> Snip
> Aussie disposals - most convenient at the time.
> You do get what you pay for, never been happier when I part with my money for a quality piece of kit...always disappointed when i take the cheap option. But in this case really not fair to point the finger at cheap cubes as I've had 'quality' aussie made ones do the same. The only difference is I was there to save those before the cube split. Something is getting into my cubes. I'll chill and ferment.




Fair cop, just in my experience the only time I've seen people have trouble is when they have used cheap cubes. Bit like the Bunning's fermenters, personally I have trouble internalising the concept of a fermenter that won't seal.
For me it comes down to an allocation of values, I find it so hard to fit brewing into my schedule that when I get the opportunity I'm not taking any chances or cutting any corners.
Good cubes, well cleaned and sanitised filled with wort at over 80oC and I can't see how you can have too much trouble.

MHB


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## geoffi (19/11/10)

I've put down scores of no-chill brews; never had a problem. A few I have left in the cube for several months. Still no problem. I clean thoroughly after use, store with sod-met, and before use rinse with boiling water and a final squirt of iodophor. Any cubes that look in any way nasty get napisan for a few days until they sparkle.

If you're having issues, it's about your process, not the method.


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## schooey (19/11/10)

I have two NC cubes that have been in my garage for nigh on 20 months... still as sucked up and puckered as they day they were put there... Good cubes and good sanitation are a must, IMHO... 

I shall admit that I swing both ways though; I wouldn't part with my chiller plate. But NC is just damn convenient when you want a short brew day, pitch tomorrow brew.


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## argon (19/11/10)

schooey said:


> I have two NC cubes that have been in my garage for nigh on 20 months...



I recently pitched a Baltic Porter that had been sitting there for close to 12 months... best beer i've ever made i reckon.


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## ekul (19/11/10)

MHB- I got my cubes from aussie disposals and they've been the best ones i can find. They also happen to be the cheapest. I've bought a few other, more expensive ones and have had troubles with the lids not sealing. But the aussie disposal ones seal up great. I think my disposal cubes are from australia too.

I was getting some infections and the nochill has sorted this right up. Would be nochilling right now but my hops haven't arrived yet, looks like it will be monday.


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## geoffi (19/11/10)

My recommendation for anybody wanting some reliable no-chill cubes is to get yourself a few fresh-wort kits. You get the cube and the beer.


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## argon (19/11/10)

Geoffi said:


> My recommendation for anybody wanting some reliable no-chill cubes is to get yourself a few fresh-wort kits. You get the cube and the beer.




+1 on this.. good value when you include a cube. Ros will be doing 20L FWKs soon. So i'll be grabbing a couple of new ones when he releases them.


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## winkle (19/11/10)

BribieG said:


> Mine's bigger than yours. Nyah Nyah -  well over a hundred no chills and stopped counting yonks ago, but never a spontaneous ferment yet. However I have never kept a cube for more than around 48 hours - usually hassling to get it into the fermenter. I guess that once you have had a wild fermentation then that cube is for the tip, which is sad at twenty bucks each :angry: I wouldn't take the risk of throwing another twenty bucks of ingredients into it.



+1
(I guess it should be +100+ :unsure: )

Cubes come with Golden Grove bulk wine :icon_cheers:


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## SpillsMostOfIt (19/11/10)

I'm going to be quite critical, but I do not intend to be offensive.

MHB (and others) touched on the subject of what NoChill really is. Thousands and thousands of cubes of fresh wort and malt extract have been made and sold commercially around the world over the years. Every jar of jam you buy is NoChilled, as is every jar that you are given (by a grandma, anyway). Willow Australia posted a bumper profit in recent years due to home brewers using cubes to NoChill beer. (Okay, I made that bit up.)

Brewing is as much about sanitation as it is anything else. If you get an infection in a NoChill cube, I reckon there is something wrong with the cube or your process. If there was something wrong with the cube and it infected your beer, there is something wrong with your process, because you will sort it out *before* you put hot wort in there.

If you get an infection via your chiller, or the ball valve you can't be bothered cleaning, or your fermenter, are you going to complain that you hate fermenters or ball valves or plate chillers? Why blame *this* proven process?

Hard lovin'. That's all the love I got to offer.


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## manticle (19/11/10)

I had a blue willow cube that showed a split when it was empty and got retired but generally speaking I love NC.

Borrowed a plate chiller recently to see the difference for myself but find it hard to imagine myself changing.

Bad luck on your alt though RK.


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## Rodolphe01 (19/11/10)

I hate fermenting because this one time i got a lacto infection 

No chill probably isn't ideal, but I do it because I have access to free cubes, and no access to free copper etc.


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## Fourstar (19/11/10)

WarmBeer said:


> 10 no-chills under the belt. Not a single swelling cube.
> 
> I refute your anecdote, and replace it with my own.



better make that 81 AG no chills and no spontaneous fermentations. i have however dumped one from a cube when i did not rinse the thread/cap area after squeezing properly. covered in black mould. the wort smelt fine however, just didnt want to risk it.


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## matho (19/11/10)

I love my CFC I have tried no chill a few times but with my CFC getting 25 l of wort down to pitch temp in 15 min no chill is more of a hassle for me. I can see the benefits of no chill when you can do big batches cube them up and ferment at your own lesiure but for me doing small batches once a month it's great to have everything done and dusted at the end of the day the yeast in the fermenter doing it's thing 

Cheers matho


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## haysie (19/11/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> Saving a few minutes on brew day will cost me more time cleaning up the mess.



In a perfect world RK`S yes. How many times I plan to brew and correspond a starter just doesnt happen. So cubes are a must for me, unless on the odd blinking occasion I am organised for a big hoppy septic tank.
Like a few post`s before, dont leave em forever....... I have heard of great results of brews sitting in their sugary plastic environment for months, I certainly wouldnt go there. If you need to store it, store it in the keg fridge..its cold and that alone inhibits bacteria growth.
If your yeast is ready..... dont cube.


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## drsmurto (19/11/10)

*Goes out to the shed, picks up the plate chiller and gives it a big hug* :wub:


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## pk.sax (19/11/10)

DrSmurto said:


> *Goes out to the shed, picks up the plate chiller and gives it a big hug* :wub:


You just needed a reason to visit your shed


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## drtomc (19/11/10)

When I first started doing kits, I read up some of the AG stuff, and stumbled on plate chillers and accidentally spent a week reading technical literature on heat exchangers (Sometimes being a scientist can be hazardous).

Ironic, isnt' it - I NC.

A couple of dozen, and no problems that could be attributed to the NC, except for a couple of late hop addition imbalance problems early on.

2c,
T.


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## Bribie G (19/11/10)

gunbrew said:


> I have done the same a few times (pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter)
> 
> My new favourite is finish the boil in the birko.
> Put gladwrap over the top and leave to cool to room temprature over night.
> ...



I've only had three brews that I needed to tip - two of them I would definitely blame on using bags of Liqourland ice to chill them down (they were partials) and the third was a no-chill in the Birko. That one I would blame on the tap, after dismantling the tap I found some mouldy blue hop debris stuck inside it from some previous brew. Also the sight tube is a bit of a worry as it doesn't get a good boil as such and nasties could lurk. 
Having said that, you can probably do a series of no chill in urn and get away with it, and give the tap and sight tube a good cleanout with perc or PBW every time, but once bitten <_<


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## raven19 (20/11/10)

Darn shame about losing that brew mate.

I still have a lambic NC cube in the shed that I brewed maybe 6 months ago...


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## Pennywise (22/11/10)

brando said:


> I'm getting lazier the more I brew, and have just experimented with the "no-no-chill method"...
> 
> ... just pour hot wort straight from my BIAB urn into the fermenter, then into the fridge (@at 18 degrees) until morning, then pitch the yeast.
> 
> I know this breaks lots of rules, but the ESB I'm drinking was done this way and tastes great!






petesbrew said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one who no chills into the fermenter.
> I even go as far as to put a bottlecap over the airlock hole to stop bugs getting in.




I chill like this also. I wrap some foil over the airlock so as the brew chills & contracts no bugs n stuff get through the airlock as it sucks air in.


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## MHB (22/11/10)

Pennywise said:


> I chill like this also. I wrap some foil over the airlock so as the brew chills & contracts no bugs n stuff get through the airlock as it sucks air in.



Sort of reminds me of a poster I first saw in the 70"s, much revisited since.
The catch line was "Condoms, the unofficial emblem of the Liberal party because it gives a bunch of fuckwits a false sense of security while being screwed".
A bit of foil isn't going to stop any bugs at all. You would do a lot better with a cotton ball tucked into the end of the airlock, or a HEPA filter in the airlock grommet, use something that actually stops bacteria getting into your fermenter.

MHB



Just for fun


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## Pennywise (22/11/10)

I just use the foil because of something I read/heard in a discussion about it being harder for bacteria to travell upward. Sort of like when a starter flask is cooling, I just use foil for that too. Only takes a second to put on so I'm not too fussed over it (because the beer tastes the same  ). Not really sure it's fuckwit territory though, maybe just a bit pointless. Cheers for the info


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## black_labb (22/11/10)

i think if you're going to chill in the fermentor I'd soak a cottonball in no rinse san of some sort and place it into the airlock instead of filling it with water. that should keep things fairly sterile. I think no chill would be better but this method can work. 

I'd be stirring up the wort in the fermentor when you pitch the yeast. You need to aerate as boiled water has very little dissolved oxygen.


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## Steve (22/11/10)

black_labb said:


> i think if you're going to chill in the fermentor I'd soak a cottonball in no rinse san of some sort and place it into the airlock instead of filling it with water. that should keep things fairly sterile. I think no chill would be better but this method can work.
> 
> I'd be stirring up the wort in the fermentor when you pitch the yeast. You need to aerate as boiled water has very little dissolved oxygen.




I no chill overnight in fermenters and have an empty airlock with gradwrap over the top held in place with a lacky band. You only need to aerate if using liquid yeast, not dry yeast.
Cheers
Steve


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## schooey (22/11/10)

Steve said:


> You only need to aerate if using liquid yeast, not dry yeast.



Really? I was under the impression that all yeast cells needed oxygen to get their funk on and multiply?

Anyway...happy to be schooled differently. I still aerate my wort when pitching dry yeast....

On a side note, I discovered a reason I _dislike (hate is such a strong word)_ no chill tonight. I opened a cube of what I thought was RIS tonight to find out it was actually a cube of English Mild. Oh well, looks like the largish starter of 1028/1084 blend is going in the Mild and the 1469 culture in the fridge is going in the RIS... :unsure:


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## manticle (22/11/10)

Send me your address and I'll post you a couple of textas.


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## schooey (22/11/10)

Yeah yeah.. I know.. but it was brewed at chappos and we were pissed... blah blah. I had a 50/50 shot at it...


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## schooey (22/11/10)

Oh and from the Fermentis website...

_Oxygen is required to assure a healthy cell multiplication. Oxygenation is
either made by top filling and splashing wort against the wall of the
fermenter, aeration or direct oxygen injection. It is usually recommended
to make the oxygenation on cooled wort. At this stage hygiene is essential
since bacteria may develop during the aeration. Oxygen should only be
added in the first twelve hours of fermentation (9 ppm). Adding oxygen
during late fermentation will increase aldehyde levels and amplify diacetyl
formation. High levels of oxygen will suppress ester production. It has been
noticed that oxygen can increase SO concentrations in some worts._


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## Steve (23/11/10)

schooey said:


> Really? I was under the impression that all yeast cells needed oxygen to get their funk on and multiply?
> 
> Anyway...happy to be schooled differently. I still aerate my wort when pitching dry yeast....



Ross mentioned it years ago so I gave it a try. Havent noticed any adverse affects since I started doing it. No delayed lag time etc.
Cheers
Steve


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## MHB (23/11/10)

Another case of the right answer to a brewing question being Maybe!
There is an optimum amount of yeast, which is determined by many factors including wort gravity, pitching/brewing temperature, wort composition, type and health of the yeast...
I'm of the opinion that in a healthy well balanced wort you can pitch dry yeast without aeration, if you also pay attention to pitch size and all the rest.
Naturally you don't want to over pitch either.

MHB


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## Sammus (23/11/10)

Pennywise said:


> I just use the foil because of something I read/heard in a discussion about it being harder for bacteria to travell upward. Sort of like when a starter flask is cooling, I just use foil for that too. Only takes a second to put on so I'm not too fussed over it (because the beer tastes the same  ). Not really sure it's fuckwit territory though, maybe just a bit pointless. Cheers for the info



That's true if the air is still, the idea is that the airborne bacteria don't 'swim' around in the air, they just travel on currents. In still air a gooseneck bend is enough to stop any bacteria -- there's a study about this but I can't seem to find it; it's essentially a glass flask of some kind of nutrient rich solution with a goosenck bent opening that has remained sterile for like 100 years or something. This is different when you're 'no chilling', the heat of the work creates a lot of turbulence in the air, and more importantly, as it cools (and the air above it with it), it sucks in more air, this is where infection is possible.


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## Dazza_devil (23/11/10)

I've had to chill my fermenter down 5-10 degrees in my fermentation fridge before pitching a few times. I use normal dilution strength starsan in my 2-piece airlock and never had a problem, touch wood. I doubt any bacteria would survive the trip through the starsan bubbles and fluid, but you never know I guess.


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## zebba (23/11/10)

Sammus said:


> In still air a gooseneck bend is enough to stop any bacteria -- there's a study about this but I can't seem to find it; it's essentially a glass flask of some kind of nutrient rich solution with a goosenck bent opening that has remained sterile for like 100 years or something


God bless Louis Pasteur. I believe the experiment you are thinking of is in the Pastuer Institute, but just looking at Louis Pasteurs page in wiki has a picture of the basic idea. It disproved the idea of spontaneous generation, which makes YEC pages asking why, if evolution were true, we haven't seen any new animals fly out of jars of peanut butter seem rather ignorant...


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/11/10)

Zebba said:


> ... if evolution were true, we haven't seen any new animals fly out of jars of peanut butter seem rather ignorant...



Because very few flying animals have opposable thumbs most such creatures fail to unscrew peanut butter jar lids and die a horrible, nutty death and are reassimilated back into the spread before we notice they were ever there.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovatio...fic-method5.htm


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## zebba (23/11/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> Because very few flying animals have opposable thumbs most such creatures fail to unscrew peanut butter jar lids and die a horrible, nutty death and are reassimilated back into the spread before we notice they were ever there.
> 
> http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovatio...fic-method5.htm


Surely the inability to open the jar is a strong evolutionary driver to evolve a thumb...


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/11/10)

Zebba said:


> Surely the inability to open the jar is a strong evolutionary driver to evolve a thumb...



If you believe in such things, of course. Whereas the evidence clearly suggests that this does not happen.


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## zebba (23/11/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> If you believe in such things, of course. Whereas the evidence clearly suggests that this does not happen.


Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Maybe they close the jar before flying off and we never know...


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/11/10)

Zebba said:


> ... Maybe they close the jar before flying off and we never know...



That's absurd and clearly would never happen.


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## WarmBeer (23/11/10)

Where are the Intelligent Design proponents when you most need em?


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/11/10)

WarmBeer said:


> Where are the Intelligent Design proponents when you most need em?



Stuck in little jars.


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## WarmBeer (23/11/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> Stuck in little jars.


Excellent. Darwinism FTW!


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