# First Wit Beer Attempt - Thoughts?



## maldridge (8/11/12)

Hey all, after a very very successful first AG batch (of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale), I'm up for trying something a bit different.

With summer coming up I thought I'd have a crack at a Wit beer. I've basically gone with something very basic, using a BeerSmith recipe. I've contacted Grain and Grape and have made a couple of changes to suit what they have in stock.

Here's what I've got planned for a 25 L batch:

3kg - Briess Torrefied Wheat - Soft red wheat
3kg - Bestmalz Pilsner
38g - East Kent Goldings
1 pk - Wyeast 3944 Belgian Witbier yeast

I'll also be adding 20g each of crushed coriander seed, and orange zest - both added at 5 min or close to flameout. 

After doing some research I've gathered I certainly don't want to overdo it with the coriander or orange zest, I definitely want to avoid the dreaded ham/celery soup!! I've toned it back from what the recipe recommends, but have still added enough (I think) for a distinctive taste and aroma.

I plan on buying plain navel oranges. Will these do the trick?

If there is anything else people recommend please go right ahead! Although this is a relatively simple recipe I'm happy to experiment a bit being my second AG attempt


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## white.grant (8/11/12)

Looks fine to me, though I usually use a saaz or tettnang in my wits. Unlikely to make a significant difference.

I'd be getting some preserved bitter peel from the asian grocery, naval orange skin lacks the zing and while you're there get some indian coriander - it has a slightly oval shape and has a much nicer flavour than the South East asian varieties you see around your standard supermarkets. Getting the balance right is the trick, but it's worth persevering.

Many recipes add a bit of chamomile with the spices too.


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## RdeVjun (8/11/12)

Sounds like you're very much on the right track. For some variation or if you find low efficiency issues then some wheat malt won't hurt, even 100% malted wheat is fine. You saw this evidently.


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## felon (8/11/12)

Have a listen to this for ideas
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jam...l-Show-03-13-06


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## maldridge (8/11/12)

Thanks guys. Yes I've seen that thread RdeVjun.

Would it be crazy to add about 15g of Amarillo? I've got some left over from a batch I did a few weeks back. Actually I never put them in the fridge. Probably farked now anyway?


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## jimi (8/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Thanks guys. Yes I've seen that thread RdeVjun.
> 
> Would it be crazy to add about 15g of Amarillo? I've got some left over from a batch I did a few weeks back. Actually I never put them in the fridge. Probably farked now anyway?



IMO the big bold citrus yank hops are way out of place in a wit. It's a very low bitterness style and hops should barely be present. It's your second AG so stay true to style and make what you produce easy to compare to the classic examples.


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## nathan_madness (8/11/12)

Maybe some Oats about 3-5% of your grain bill. It will smooth it out and make it a little creamy.

Also lightly toast the Coriander in a dry pan then crush it lightly. Navel oranges work well I used the zest of 5 oranges (45g) in the wit I made last week and it tastes great


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## jimmy01 (9/11/12)

jimi said:


> IMO the big bold citrus yank hops are way out of place in a wit. It's a very low bitterness style and hops should barely be present. It's your second AG so stay true to style and make what you produce easy to compare to the classic examples.


Agree with you jimi. Go easy with the bitterness. I have tried dried peel including curaao peel and find navel orange zest just as good. Watch the coriander too. 20g should be ok.


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## RdeVjun (9/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Thanks guys. Yes I've seen that thread RdeVjun.
> 
> Would it be crazy to add about 15g of Amarillo? I've got some left over from a batch I did a few weeks back. Actually I never put them in the fridge. Probably farked now anyway?


No, as per Jimis, wouldn't really suit except perhaps as bittering where flavour & aroma effects are fairly subdued. You don't want much, if any, hops presence with a Wit, so I'd only use the American stuff if it was all I had.
I'd use them as a late supplement in an American Pale of some sort, best kept refrigerated but might still be ok, just don't count on it.


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## humulus (9/11/12)

Where do you guys get your curaao peel from? If you have used it,bloody hard to findMHB was trying to get through Customs and Quarantine bollocks to try and import some al while back,don't know how he faired


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## maldridge (12/11/12)

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll leave out the amarillo then. I'll stick with the navel orange zest, people seem to have positive experiences with them so hopefully will be ok. 

When you say Oats, are we talking 'malted oats', or 'flaked/rolled oats'? Whichever is the right one, I might chuck in about 300g or so....That equates to about 5% of the grain bill.

Almost ready to put through my G&G order, just want to double check everything is in order 

Thanks in advance.


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## seamad (13/11/12)

I just use lowan whole grain oats from woolies that i make porridge with.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (13/11/12)

seamad said:


> I just use lowan whole grain oats from woolies that i make porridge with.



+1. I usually use about 500g in a 21L batch. 
Cheers
BBB


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## ben_sa (13/11/12)

My usual wit (which is on tap now), is 50/50 wheat/pils with hallertau at 60minutes to 14-15ibu, brewed with 3068.

Simple piece of piss!


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## Nick JD (13/11/12)

ben_sa said:


> My usual wit (which is on tap now), is 50/50 wheat/pils with hallertau at 60minutes to 14-15ibu, brewed with 3068.
> 
> Simple piece of piss!



That's a Weizen. 

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php


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## maldridge (20/11/12)

So I brewed this yesterday.

Couple of questions, firstly I ended up with about 27L into my fermenter when aiming for a 25L batch (and there was still some left in the kettle) - I assume this is due to my book off inputs on beersmith, as my Pre boil volumes were spot on....

Also, I checked the gravity after I added my yeast and it was about 1035 or so, I was expecting it to be a bit higher? I also checked the gravity Pre boil and it was meant to be 1037 I think, but I was only at 1022....what's going on there?

Final question - I added my wyeast 3944 at fermentation temp (19-20 deg) but I've still ha no activity today after 24 hours. From what I've read this thing usually takes off pretty quick smart. I didn't look in the fermenter (don't wanna open the lid and risk infection) but there was certainly no airlock activity.

I plan to (as the recipe states) ferment for 4 days in primary then rack to secondary for a further 2 weeks (I think). I'm worried fermentation won't be finished (or even started) by then. Will this be an issue if I rack to secondary before its finished fermenting??

Thanks again, sorry for all the questions!!!!


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## Thefatdoghead (20/11/12)

maldridge said:


> So I brewed this yesterday.
> 
> Couple of questions, firstly I ended up with about 27L into my fermenter when aiming for a 25L batch (and there was still some left in the kettle) - I assume this is due to my book off inputs on beersmith, as my Pre boil volumes were spot on....
> 
> ...



I could only assume your efficiency has suffered due to incorrect volume and maybe the terrified wheat or a combination of both from what you have said. What was your mash schedule? 
A pre boil OG of 1.022 means for some reason your efficiency has suffered. what size crush did you have? did you check for conversion? Seems to be enough malt for that sized batch and the SG your chasing so if you have taken some notes try go back through them and figure out where it went wrong.
With the yeast...did you add it straight from the smack pack or make a starter? if you added it from the pack it will take a couple of days to get going I have found so just be patient. 
Dont rack it to a secondary just let it ferment out until done then drop the temp and condition for a couple of weeks then bottle or keg it. Drink it fresh is best for these bad boys.


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## nathan_madness (20/11/12)

maldridge said:


> So I brewed this yesterday.
> 
> Couple of questions, firstly I ended up with about 27L into my fermenter when aiming for a 25L batch (and there was still some left in the kettle) - I assume this is due to my book off inputs on beersmith, as my Pre boil volumes were spot on....
> 
> ...



What was your full recipe and mash schedule?


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## maldridge (20/11/12)

Thanks for the encouragement Gav80. I didn't make a starter I just poured in the smack pack (after a good 4 hours to swell). Hopefullly this gets started in a cpl days. If you think it's not worth racking to secondary I'm happy not too. As I'll be bulk priming I'll at least be racking to another vessel before bottling to hopefully get rid of any excess trub.

Here is my full recipe and mash schedule.


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Wit
Style: Witbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (47.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 37.95 l
Post Boil Volume: 28.95 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 23.30 l
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 8.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes



3kg - Briess Torrefied Wheat - Soft red wheat
3kg - Bestmalz Pilsner
38g - East Kent Goldings
1 pk - Wyeast 3944 Belgian Witbier yeast

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.97 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (6.3 EBC) Grain 1 47.6 % *(ACTUALLY USED BESTMALZ PILSNER HERE)*
2.97 kg Wheat, Flaked (3.2 EBC) Grain 2 47.6 % *(ACTUALLY USED BRIESS TORREFIED WHEAT - SOFT RED WHEAT HERE) * 
0.30 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 3 4.8 % *(I THINK ROLLED OATS WERE USED HERE FROM G&G)*
37.23 g Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 4 18.9 IBUs 
20.00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 5 - 
20.00 g Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 - 
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124 Yeast 7 - 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 6.25 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Mash In Add 21.29 l of water at 73.6 C 67.8 C 60 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 27.92 l water at 75.6 C


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## nathan_madness (20/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Thanks for the encouragement Gav80. I didn't make a starter I just poured in the smack pack (after a good 4 hours to swell). Hopefullly this gets started in a cpl days. If you think it's not worth racking to secondary I'm happy not too. As I'll be bulk priming I'll at least be racking to another vessel before bottling to hopefully get rid of any excess trub.
> 
> Here is my full recipe and mash schedule.
> 
> ...




I've just put that in to my Beersmith and from what I can see you should have had 1.052 with a Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %. 

On your design page in Beersmith there is a field called "Batch Size" you should have 25L in that field if you are aiming for 25L in your fermenter. I have put 37.95L in to the "Batch Size" field in my Beersmith and it changes the OG to 1.034. I can't see anything else wrong in the recipe. 

What size pot are you using? Boil off rate all depends on pot size and how hard you boil it.


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## jimmy01 (20/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Thanks for the encouragement Gav80. I didn't make a starter I just poured in the smack pack (after a good 4 hours to swell). Hopefullly this gets started in a cpl days. If you think it's not worth racking to secondary I'm happy not too. As I'll be bulk priming I'll at least be racking to another vessel before bottling to hopefully get rid of any excess trub.
> 
> Here is my full recipe and mash schedule.
> 
> ...



When planning a beer with a lot of wheat I always lower my expected efficiency on beer smith. I usually get about 70% on lagers and bitters, but only 58-60% for my wit beers.


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## maldridge (20/11/12)

Yeh my pot is a 70L pot, I read on here somewhere the boil off rate is 9L so thats what ive entered. but I don't think I come close to that.


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## Thefatdoghead (20/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Thanks for the encouragement Gav80. I didn't make a starter I just poured in the smack pack (after a good 4 hours to swell). Hopefullly this gets started in a cpl days. If you think it's not worth racking to secondary I'm happy not too. As I'll be bulk priming I'll at least be racking to another vessel before bottling to hopefully get rid of any excess trub.
> ...........................
> 
> I guess you would bulk prime when bottling so you can rack off into the bottling bucket first but I reckon with this beer and most beers your just wasting time racking to a secondary fermenter.
> What system are you using for a brewery setup? Is it an eski for a mash tun? How fast did you fly sparge. Just trying to work out why your efficiency was so bad?


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## nathan_madness (20/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Yeh my pot is a 70L pot, I read on here somewhere the boil off rate is 9L so thats what ive entered. but I don't think I come close to that.



I have my boil off rate set to 6.81L that is what it came set as as the standard "Pot (18.5 Gal/70 L) - BIAB" in Beersmith. It is actually more like 5.5L with my size boil.


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## maldridge (21/11/12)

Hi Gav, I have another 70L ss pot for my mash tun with false bottom. When I was fly sparging I can't remember exactly, but it seemed like it took about 30 mins, maybe less, to complete the sparge and to achieve my post boil volumes.

As Nathan mentioned I will definitely adjust my boil off rates next time round.

Btw why is it that my efficiency is 'bad' rather than good. Didn't I end up with too much wort as opposed to not enough? Or is that not how it works.....


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## nathan_madness (21/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Hi Gav, I have another 70L ss pot for my mash tun with false bottom. When I was fly sparging I can't remember exactly, but it seemed like it took about 30 mins, maybe less, to complete the sparge and to achieve my post boil volumes.
> 
> As Nathan mentioned I will definitely adjust my boil off rates next time round.
> 
> Btw why is it that my efficiency is 'bad' rather than good. Didn't I end up with too much wort as opposed to not enough? Or is that not how it works.....



Your efficiency is calculated by your OG and your volume into the fermenter. So in your case low OG but over shot the fermenter volume.


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## maldridge (27/11/12)

Sorry to bring this back, but since my beer has now been in the fermenter for 8 days, I've been regularly taking hydrometer readings. I decided against racking to secondary as per somebodies instructions on here - they said it wasn't really necessary.

Firstly my gravity just after putting it into the fermenter was about 1035 or so. It's now sitting at 1008. I'll be leaving it in the fermenter till next monday, when I plan to bottle. No doubt it will have finished by then.

With these low gravities will I just end up with a fairly weak beer? It was fermented at 19.4 degrees. 

Will there be any other issues?

Cheers.


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## hsb (27/11/12)

1035/1008 = 3.6%ABV

You never said what your Mash temperature was? Beer will probably be a bit thin bodywise but might turn out nice with a wheatie.

Your original target was 1051? 
1050/1010 would have been 5.6%ABV


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## maldridge (27/11/12)

My mash temp was mentioned in my brew sheet that I posted.

67.8 C for 60 min. Only dropped a couple of degrees over that time.

Yes OG target was 1051, and FG target was 1012.


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## fcmcg (27/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Hi Gav, I have another 70L ss pot for my mash tun with false bottom. When I was fly sparging I can't remember exactly, but it seemed like it took about 30 mins, maybe less, to complete the sparge and to achieve my post boil volumes.
> 
> As Nathan mentioned I will definitely adjust my boil off rates next time round.
> 
> Btw why is it that my efficiency is 'bad' rather than good. Didn't I end up with too much wort as opposed to not enough? Or is that not how it works.....


Mate,
I always fly sparge for at least an hour , if i can....no point in rushing through it and leaving some sugar behind....that may also help up your efficiency....your efficincy is bad as you ended up with a lower OG than you were aiming for .If you had a higher OG and less wort . you could have always just watered it down.....


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## maldridge (28/11/12)

I never realised it was supposed to take that long unfortunately.

One more question, should I bother cold condition this brew before bottling? I imagine it should be quite a cloudy beer being a wit and all...

Cheers.


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## carniebrew (28/11/12)

maldridge said:


> I never realised it was supposed to take that long unfortunately.
> 
> One more question, should I bother cold condition this brew before bottling? I imagine it should be quite a cloudy beer being a wit and all...
> 
> Cheers.


Do you like cloudy beer? Some brewers are so driven by crystal clear beer, but I personally being a fan of the true wheat style much prefer cloudy, hence the no secondary and no cold conditioning for me. 

Oh and also, while your gravity readings of 1035/1008 give you 3.6% abv after fermentation (provided it doesn't drop any further before you bottle), you'll of course get another .4/.5 bump by bottle priming. Wheat beers are generally carbed much higher than your average home brew, as much as 50% more, if you're into that...so being mindful of bottle bombs, you could use 300gm of dex to bulk prime 23 litres of wheat beer kept at 20 degrees. You could end up with a 4.1/4.2 abv wheat which means you can squeeze in a coupla extra each night....


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## maldridge (28/11/12)

Thanks for the reply, that sounds good. I was actually aiming for 2.8 volumes of co2 which for 25 L is 193 grams of dextrose. 300gm would be a shit load! That would be early 3.9 vol co2!

My beersmith recipe suggests only 2.6 (however after shooting for 2.4 with my first Dr Smurto Golden Ale last time and finding it was slightly under carbed for my liking, I was going to aim a bit higher this time round...)


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## carniebrew (28/11/12)

maldridge said:


> Thanks for the reply, that sounds good. I was actually aiming for 2.8 volumes of co2 which for 25 L is 193 grams of dextrose. 300gm would be a shit load! That would be early 3.9 vol co2!
> 
> My beersmith recipe suggests only 2.6 (however after shooting for 2.4 with my first Dr Smurto Golden Ale last time and finding it was slightly under carbed for my liking, I was going to aim a bit higher this time round...)


Yeah, the bulk priming calculator suggests as high as 3.6-4.5 volumes in a weizen. Even the Wikipedia entry for wheat beer says:
"The hefeweizen style is particularly noted for its low hop bitterness (about 15 IBUs) and relatively high carbonation (approaching four volumes)"

It's a bloody lot if you're not used to it, but will help get that abv up a little...


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## maldridge (28/11/12)

I see, perhaps I'll shoot for a little more carbonation then to aid with the ABV also. Surprised why the original Beersmith recipe didn't call for higher co2 volumes.


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## carniebrew (28/11/12)

maldridge said:


> I see, perhaps I'll shoot for a little more carbonation then to aid with the ABV also. Surprised why the original Beersmith recipe didn't call for higher co2 volumes.


All the Beersmith sample recipes seem to call for only 2.3 or 2.4 volumes, probably just the recipe provider's preference. Maybe he's British? :icon_cheers:


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