# Reeeally Noticeable Sulfur Smell From Cider



## Air Cleaner (25/10/11)

Hey guys, just put down my first ever brew of cider a couple of weeks ago, and although primary fermentation seems to be well over, I'm left with clear cider that has a pretty noticeable reek to it. For reference, this was my method:

~9L of 50/50 homebrand apple juice and Berri Apple + Pear juice
2/3 of a sachet of champagne yeast (no nutrient) added dry
Pitched at maybe 22 degrees
Fermented mainly around 18 (may have peaked up to 22 and down to 15 overnight, as it's in a dark garage)

So 2 weeks later my SG of 1040 is down to about 1000 on the money, and it stinks pretty bad. Taste is fine, but the nose of the thing is pretty noticeable. It's been clear for 4 days or so now, should I leave it much longer before bottling? Will the sulfur go away eventually by itself in the bottle?

Any help would be good, cheers


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## stuchambers (25/10/11)

I have had the same problem, been told it is the lack of nutrient in the juice. The smell does fade over time in the bottle, I have some aged about 6 months and the fart smell has all but gone. 
Cheers Stu


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## Muggus (25/10/11)

stuchambers said:


> I have had the same problem, been told it is the lack of nutrient in the juice. The smell does fade over time in the bottle, I have some aged about 6 months and the fart smell has all but gone.
> Cheers Stu


Yeah spot on Stu.
Certain yeasts tend to throw off a hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg gas) during ferments due to lack of nutrients, more than likely Nitrogen. 
A common practice, particularly in the wine industry where juices can lack Nitrogen, is to add nutrient, usually DAP, to bump the levels up during ferment if they start farting out gas. 
But considering you ferment is pretty much done and dusted, there's no need to add DAP, and it could be infact detrimental during bottle conditioning...so she'll be right! :icon_cheers:


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## komodo (25/10/11)

I had this in my first cider during ferment. A bloke at work who makes his own wine told me to stick a 1ft length of copper pipe in my ferment. I did and it did help. 
Though since then I've always used a yeast nutrient and never used the copper pipe again. YMMV


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## Greg.L (25/10/11)

You can use copper sulphate, but the amount required is tiny. Typically you would dilute a teaspoon in 100ml, then take a teaspoon of that solution in 100ml, then add a teaspoon of that to your cider. H2S is noticeable in parts per billion, a very low sensory threshold.


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## pk.sax (25/10/11)

Bottle the bugger. With champagne yeast, that smell would be last thing you worry about once it's poured. Actually, helps if the juice is richer as you get other smells mingling with the H2S. Can still smell it, as Greg said, but there are other more pleasant ones hanging around and the H2S dissipates quite fast in the glass if the cider was well carbonated.


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## Air Cleaner (25/10/11)

practicalfool said:


> Bottle the bugger. With champagne yeast, that smell would be last thing you worry about once it's poured. Actually, helps if the juice is richer as you get other smells mingling with the H2S. Can still smell it, as Greg said, but there are other more pleasant ones hanging around and the H2S dissipates quite fast in the glass if the cider was well carbonated.



Oh? I'll bottle it tonight then. What is it about the champagne yeast that impacts the overall smell? I'm pretty new to all this. Also, I went to Brewcraft to get my supplies and it seemed like a bit of a rip. Find a new shop? Yeast was like 6-8 bucks a pop. Is that standard?


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## komodo (25/10/11)

Thats about standard but look to the sponsors.
Where are you located?


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## Air Cleaner (25/10/11)

Komodo said:


> Thats about standard but look to the sponsors.
> Where are you located?



Melbourne, inner south east suburbs. I tried the BC because it was on my way to uni - not really sure what to look for in a decent brew shop.

Anyway, bottled it all up, so hopefully I'll eventually have some tasty cider. Sweetened some with lactose, and did a couple with cordial as primer as an experiment. The cordial had small amounts of preservatives though, so I'm not sure if that's going to undermine the carbing

Cheers


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## Thirsty Boy (26/10/11)

why bottle it with an unpleasant smell if you can get rid of it?

two ways

1. The bit of copper pipe thing. stick a few inches of copper pipe in the fermenter and give it a swirl a couple of times a day till the smell fades away.

2. Sparge it through with C02. just put an aeration stone in the bottom of your fermenter and bubble C02 through. as it sparges through the liquid it will strip out the sulphur smells and carry them away.

next time, a little DAP will prevent the issue.


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## pk.sax (26/10/11)

Thirsty, wheat beer level carbonation priming in the bottle gets the same effect for no extra cost 

Soon as you pour it, the excess CO2 just drives the little bit of leftover odour away.

Good trick (your's) if bottling a large quantity or kegging though! Will have to remember.


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## Greg.L (26/10/11)

I haven't had h2s with cider but I have with wine. The problem is that if the h2s stays in wine it changes into compounds called mercaptans, these are really nasty undrinkable chemicals, with a threshold even lower than h2s. Once you get mercaptans there is nothing to do but chuck it.


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## Muggus (26/10/11)

Greg.L said:


> I haven't had h2s with cider but I have with wine. The problem is that if the h2s stays in wine it changes into compounds called mercaptans, these are really nasty undrinkable chemicals, with a threshold even lower than h2s. Once you get mercaptans there is nothing to do but chuck it.


It might have something to do with the presence of other sulfur compounds, like bound/free SO2, and high alcohols that leads to the production of mercaptans in finished wine, which don't tend to be present in beer.

I recall hearing something about silver nitrate (or possible another silver related chemical) helping with mercaptans...not that it's a legal addition as is!


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## hoppinmad (26/10/11)

Muggus said:


> I recall hearing something about silver nitrate (or possible another silver related chemical) helping with mercaptans...not that it's a legal addition as is!




yeah... a fact one riverland winery in Kingston learned the hard way ten years ago! Maybe next time a french student winemaker asks for Easter Sunday off they will oblige!

anyway... you shouldn't have bottled it in my opinion. A small dose a copper sulphate would have solved the problem


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## manticle (26/10/11)

practicalfool said:


> Thirsty, wheat beer level carbonation priming in the bottle gets the same effect for no extra cost
> 
> Soon as you pour it, the excess CO2 just drives the little bit of leftover odour away.
> 
> Good trick (your's) if bottling a large quantity or kegging though! Will have to remember.



Myself, I hate overly fizzy stuff so copper pipe would be my preferred solution. I had run out of nutrient when I put down my last juiced based cider. So far no sulphur but if it appears, I'll go the pipe. Only time I've had H2S from a cider was years ago with a kit cider mixed with pressed apples that used some potassium metabisulphite.

One more reason to hate sulphites. Smelled like farts every time I opened the bottle and was offputting enough not to want to repeat ever.


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## pk.sax (26/10/11)

Sounds like I'm not as susceptible to it as you and some others!

Oh well, from 'what I can tell', I don't get heaps, just a tiny bit. And that dissipates 'really quick' as far as I can tell. I think my first cider with cloudy juice was one I had this happen in, smelled majorly farty coming out of the carboy, I bottled it all and let age a month or two and upon opening the bottles had a very fain smell, Pour and it was gone in a hurry. Thats the closest I got to smelling sulphur I didn't like... As I said, didn't need to (or know) I could do anything else but bottle, just upped the sugar dose by ~25% to what I ideally wanted and it worked out fine.


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## drsmurto (26/10/11)

manticle said:


> Myself, I hate overly fizzy stuff so copper pipe would be my preferred solution. I had run out of nutrient when I put down my last juiced based cider. So far no sulphur but if it appears, I'll go the pipe. Only time I've had H2S from a cider was years ago with a kit cider mixed with pressed apples that used some potassium metabisulphite.
> 
> One more reason to hate sulphites. Smelled like farts every time I opened the bottle and was offputting enough not to want to repeat ever.



Sulphites don't cause sulphides (eg. H2S). 

Yeast produce H2S.


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## manticle (26/10/11)

That's what I thought (and you're probably right) but in the early days of kit making, I read something warning against unrinsed sodium met in cider due to some kind of reaction between the two leading to off odours.

However, since the memory is so vague and it's based purely on a single (remembered) reference, I'll have to attribute the fart stink to something else.

Can the S02 bind with anything atmospheric or with fermentation volatiles to produce H2S?


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## Greg.L (26/10/11)

manticle said:


> Can the S02 bind with anything atmospheric or with fermentation volatiles to produce H2S?



Its a common misconception that SO2 can produce H2S. During fermentation SO2 gets bound by acetaldehyde fairly quickly, and doesn't get involved in the fermentation process. Some yeasts produce more H2S than others, the AWRI350 yeast is supposed to be a low producer of H2S, one reason its good for cider.


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## manticle (26/10/11)

Learn something new every day. I'm not a fan of sulphites because of the headaches they give me from reds and commercial ciders but that's one less evil I can blame them for.


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## Greg.L (26/10/11)

I don't use sulphite (so2) for my cider. I put it through a fairly quick primary, then pitch an MLF, after that there's not much can go wrong. I leave a couple of months in secondary (with minimal headspace) then bottle carb, haven't had any problems yet.


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## stuchambers (26/10/11)

Where can you obtain a MLF, I assume this is a malolactic you are talking about.


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## Greg.L (26/10/11)

I buy mine from winequip, about $40 for enough to do 250L+


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## C-MOR (9/10/13)

G'day all
I've got a couple of lagers with H2S issues coming to the end of their ferments. I've got some CuSO4 and read the previous posts about need to dilute it 1:20 three times. My solution is 0.05 Mol, I'm no chemist but I think that's pretty weak. Any chance someone knows how much solution I need to put in19 ltrs of stinking beer?

Cheers


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## C-MOR (9/10/13)

I went with 1 drop in each keg. I'll check it in the morning and go from there.


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## dannymars (27/2/15)

bump

how did that turn out?


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## TimT (3/3/15)

Sulphur smells are common in fermentation. What everyone says above is right; also, isn't it often said that when you stick a bottle in the fridge for a few days the smells will go away?

Slightly OT. I've started wondering again about the nutrient content in apple juice - specifically, the claim above that it's not very nutrient rich. Since apples are often mentioned as a natural home of wild yeasts I always sort of assumed they're nutrient rich; and a recent experience with a cyser fermentation (cyser - honey and apple juice) has borne this out.

I fermented the cyser in two different fermenters on two different yeasts - one, a red wine yeast; the other, a recently-captured wild yeast.

Both ferments finished fairly quickly with a gravity below 1.000 - in fact, I think the wild yeast cyser gravity was one point below that of the normal yeast gravity. I'm pretty sure in both cases the yeasts got a lot of nutrients from the apple juice. (Yet in a later ferment with the wild yeast - another 'comparative' ferment, where I did a beer on two yeasts, one a normal beer yeast and the other the wild yeast - the wild yeast badly underperformed and underattenuated.)

Of course, there's probably less nutrient in canned cider concentrate or store-bought apple juice.


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