# Where to buy CaCl & CACO other than LHBS



## Truman42 (22/3/13)

Hey gents do you know where I could get calcium chloride and calcium carbonate from other than a LHBs. I'm doing a brew soon and don't have any and dont have time to run up to Keg King.

Thanks.


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## QldKev (22/3/13)

Try your local pantry/health foods shops. We have Nanna's pantry up here that has some bits and pieces. A lot cheaper than LHBS too.


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## Bribie G (22/3/13)

You can buy calcium chloride from pool supply shops as long as you are prepared to buy enough for the next 20 years in one pack. Tidal Pete gets his that way and gave me a half a kilo ages ago (we both expect to live to 200)
Calcium Carbonate I don't know. And no, not a stick of blackboard chalk - that's calcium silicate or something.


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## manticle (22/3/13)

What's the CaCO3 for?


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## QldKev (22/3/13)

stout :icon_drool2:


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## drsmurto (22/3/13)

Yes Nick, I am sitting here crying.


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## Truman42 (22/3/13)

I ended up going to KK but thanks anyway. The CHalk was for a stout and although I don't really like to add it my ph would have been under 5.4 without it.


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## drsmurto (22/3/13)

Truman said:


> I ended up going to KK but thanks anyway. The CHalk was for a stout and although I don't really like to add it my ph would have been under 5.4 without it.


How do you know your pH would have been out of range?


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## QldKev (22/3/13)

DrSmurto said:


> How do you know your pH would have been out of range?


Are you going to post anything useful?


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## manticle (22/3/13)

Truman said:


> I ended up going to KK but thanks anyway. The CHalk was for a stout and although I don't really like to add it my ph would have been under 5.4 without it.



Next time try either adding the dark grains to the last 10 minutes of the mash or my preferred method - cold steep cracked dark grain overnight in a covered vessel in the fridge. Bring to mash temp, then add to mash in last 10 or so minutes.

No need for chalk, very smooth result.


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## Florian (22/3/13)

Couldn't agree more with the cold steeping method, works very well, especially in beers where you want more colour than roastiness. I usually add the 'liquid' at the end of the boil instead of mash.


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## QldKev (22/3/13)

Back in 2005 I remember reading on BYO about leaving roasted grains until late. There was a discussion on here at the time, but I can't remember details. The outcome I though was; it is a practice no one actually followed. It seems some people are are doing this? I have a milk stout on the plans, I may give it a go.


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## Truman42 (22/3/13)

@ Mants... I usually do add my dark grains the last ten mins of the mash. But this was a commissioned brew. 

Me and a couple of guys from work all had today off and they wanted me to brew them a stout. 
I have them the option and they wanted it to be roasty so I added them in for a full mash.


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## CONNOR BREWARE (22/3/13)

sounds like a plan to me..

I haven't cold steeped before but have been considering the steeping method so I could split a 40 liter batch of wort up and end up with two styles.

So start with a IPA and drain off the first fermenter through the chiller. Then add the steeped liquid to get a hoppy stout etc. Anyone doing this with good results?


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## manticle (23/3/13)

Truman said:


> @ Mants... I usually do add my dark grains the last ten mins of the mash. But this was a commissioned brew.
> 
> Me and a couple of guys from work all had today off and they wanted me to brew them a stout.
> I have them the option and they wanted it to be roasty so I added them in for a full mash.


If you cold steep overnight, you still get the flavour benefit without the astringency nor (what is most relevant to this thread) the effect on pH.

The main reason i mention it is as an alternative to adding chalk to maintain pH in dark beers. Smooth can still include roast and roast can be smooth.


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## Mardoo (23/3/13)

manticle said:


> If you cold steep overnight, you still get the flavour benefit without the astringency nor (what is most relevant to this thread) the effect on pH.
> 
> The main reason i mention it is as an alternative to adding chalk to maintain pH in dark beers. Smooth can still include roast and roast can be smooth.


So Manticle you leave the grain in the cold steep, bring to mash temp and add in the last 10 minutes. You don't strain out the grain, correct?

Cheers for this.


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## QldKev (23/3/13)

manticle said:


> If you cold steep overnight, you still get the flavour benefit without the astringency nor (what is most relevant to this thread) the effect on pH.
> 
> The main reason i mention it is as an alternative to adding chalk to maintain pH in dark beers. Smooth can still include roast and roast can be smooth.



But don't you want some of the dark roasty bitter coffee like taste in a stout? Or do you steep a lot extra to make up for it?


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## Truman42 (23/3/13)

QldKev said:


> But don't you want some of the dark roasty bitter coffee like taste in a stout? Or do you steep a lot extra to make up for it?


Yeh Im curious to know this as they wanted that dark roasty bitter coffee flavour in this stout. I thought steeping would only add colour and some roastiness without the bitterness?


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## bum (23/3/13)

manticle said:


> If you cold steep overnight, you still get the flavour benefit without the astringency nor (what is most relevant to this thread) the effect on pH.


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## manticle (24/3/13)

Bum has it. By cold steeping, you get all the right flavours - you just don't need chalk to adjust your pH.
I don't like chalk much.
Stout might be smooth but it is still roasty.


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## Truman42 (25/3/13)

Ive never used chalk before, this was the first time and I only had to add .5 grams to the mash and .3 to the sparge.

Why is it that no one seems to like using chalk?


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## pk.sax (25/3/13)

They're all eating it with the blue cheese and saisons.


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## drsmurto (25/3/13)

QldKev said:


> Are you going to post anything useful?


pH is not deemed useful by you?

I'm trying to ascertain whether Truman is adding salts to his mash tun because the mash pH he measured was out of range.

I'm far more useful than people like you who proudly sport grammatical errors in their signature. Proudly ignorant is still ignorant.


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## QldKev (25/3/13)

DrSmurto said:


> pH is not deemed useful by you?
> 
> I'm trying to ascertain whether Truman is adding salts to his mash tun because the mash pH he measured was out of range.
> 
> I'm far more useful than people like you who proudly sport grammatical errors in their signature. Proudly ignorant is still ignorant.


I'd rather sport grammatical errors than come across as a dickhead like yourself!


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## manticle (25/3/13)

Truman said:


> Ive never used chalk before, this was the first time and I only had to add .5 grams to the mash and .3 to the sparge.
> 
> Why is it that no one seems to like using chalk?


In brewing science texts on water/mash adjustments, there are a bunch of negatives often brought up relating to carbonates in brewing liquor and very few positives.That's theoretical from my perspective (although the negatives are actual, observed and tested). If not dissolved properly it will have very little effect on pH anyway so you just have mash with chalk in it (pH will drop but not as effectively as it will if properly dissolved).
When I have used CaCO3, I've not been a fan of what it seems to bring to the palate (personal experience).
It also seems counter intuitive to me to add things like calcium which drop pH then add carbonate to bump it back up (and it needs to be dissolved in acid which also seems counter-intuitive but my chemistry is probably out in that regard). I'm able to adjust my pH without using it so I prefer to take that route.

I think dark beers will cope with chalk (most other beers won't) but I'm not convinced they are significantly improved by it.

I think braukaiser has an interesting article on adding chalk to mash and dissolving in carbon dioxide so I'll see if I can hunt it up. I think there might be a section in brun water as well. (or at least an online discussion of it somewhere recently)

I need to do some more home testing to really ascertain if my dislike of chalk is really justified but I'll get to that.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Building_brewing_water_with_dissolved_chalk


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## Midnight Brew (8/4/14)

Didnt wanna start a new thread but had a small question in regards to CaCl.

I can get Calcium chloride (flaked 74%) from the local pool shop pretty cheap or I can go through a HBS where its flaked 77% but more pricey. Is the pool shop stuff just as good?

I'm guessing they're almost the same product and on a homebrew scale just use the same amount as the 3% would make little difference on a homebrew scale.


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## Not For Horses (8/4/14)

I brew with CaCl from the pool shop. Works fine for me.


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## TheBeerKitchen (8/4/14)

manticle said:


> In brewing science texts on water/mash adjustments, there are a bunch of negatives often brought up relating to carbonates in brewing liquor and very few positives.That's theoretical from my perspective (although the negatives are actual, observed and tested). If not dissolved properly it will have very little effect on pH anyway so you just have mash with chalk in it (pH will drop but not as effectively as it will if properly dissolved).
> When I have used CaCO3, I've not been a fan of what it seems to bring to the palate (personal experience).
> It also seems counter intuitive to me to add things like calcium which drop pH then add carbonate to bump it back up (and it needs to be dissolved in acid which also seems counter-intuitive but my chemistry is probably out in that regard). I'm able to adjust my pH without using it so I prefer to take that route.
> 
> ...


Carbonic acid will dissolve chalk in water, just put it in a PET with water (same you use for the mash) and use a carbonator cap .

I don't like the idea of adding too much of any salt, and it is hard to know with the calculators how they determine the final dissolved amount in the mash, usually they compensate for the inability of the chalk to dissolve and tell you to add twice as much, which isn't a good thing.

However, it has it's place in the treatment of brewing water I believe. That said.. If you can get the exact same result without it, go for it.


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