# Former tenant red IPA - Modus Operandi



## Moad

Anyone got a recipe?


----------



## Reedy

Following


----------



## Dan Pratt

Email them and ask.


----------



## Moad

Fair call, didn't really occur to me!

Will post back if I have any luck


----------



## Killer Brew

Moad said:


> Fair call, didn't really occur to me!
> Will post back if I have any luck


Did you ever get anywhere with this one? Tasted it for the first time yesterday and it may just be my new favourite aussie IPA.

All i have been able to identify so far is that the hops used are mosaic and galaxy.


----------



## Moad

I wrote to MO and all they gave me was mosaic and galaxy unfortunately


----------



## Killer Brew

I saw a quote from the brewer suggesting that if a beer judge saw the number of ibu's then they would say it wasn't an IPA but that the intense flavours covers for this.

Anyone feel like taking a stab at a grain bill for a ruby red ipa to 7.8%?


----------



## Killer Brew

Been searching the interwebs but not much info out there. Reviews suggest strong malts adding caramel flavours. Don't recall picking up any rye. So maybe something like this.

Maris Otter 83%
Munich Light 12%
Crystal Light 3%
Roast Barley 1%
Carafa II 1%

Thoughts?


----------



## Liam_snorkel

It's reasonably chewy, I'd guess at cranking up the crystal to medium, maybe some melanoidin malt


----------



## Leyther

resurrecting this, did anyone try this? would love to make this my next brew, probably my favourite beer of 2016


----------



## doctr-dan

Honestly I think this is a good beer and I would like to make it , having said that I would like it to be a little more well rounded, maybe a little less malt forward ......????


----------



## Weizguy

My club is planning a day trip to a number of Northern Beaches breweries. Maybe someone will be able to get more information and post back here.

Moad, check out the price of Former Tenant at the Prince Of Wales bottleshop. Best price around, while it lasts.


----------



## Leyther

Les the Weizguy said:


> My club is planning a day trip to a number of Northern Beaches breweries. Maybe someone will be able to get more information and post back here.
> 
> Moad, check out the price of Former Tenant at the Prince Of Wales bottleshop. Best price around, while it lasts.


Its a great beer but I do wonder how they justify the price


----------



## Brownsworthy

Les the Weizguy said:


> My club is planning a day trip to a number of Northern Beaches breweries. Maybe someone will be able to get more information and post back here.
> 
> Moad, check out the price of Former Tenant at the Prince Of Wales bottleshop. Best price around, while it lasts.


$23 at the Prince where most other bottle shops are selling it for $35-40. I don't know how they can sell it so cheap!


----------



## Weizguy

Brownsworthy said:


> $23 at the Prince where most other bottle shops are selling it for $35-40. I don't know how they can sell it so cheap!


Sssssshhhhhh! don't tell everyone that it's cheap, or that it's kept refrigerated from the moment it arrives.
I hope they still have cartons (or just one) left there on payday this week..


----------



## SBOB

Brownsworthy said:
 

> $23 at the Prince where most other bottle shops are selling it for $35-40. I don't know how they can sell it so cheap!


for a 4 pack?
thats crazy, as yeah its like $40 at warners


----------



## Brownsworthy

Yep, for a 4 pack.


----------



## Kingy

Yea I live on it at beer festivals,but it's only for the rich outside of there. I have bought a 4 pack once and I think it tastes better because of the price haha
Edit: 23 bux is a ripper price


----------



## Weizguy

&amp;amp;nbsp;


Killer Brew said:


> Been searching the interwebs but not much info out there. Reviews suggest strong malts adding caramel flavours. Don't recall picking up any rye. So maybe something like this.
> 
> Maris Otter 83%
> Munich Light 12%
> Crystal Light 3%
> Roast Barley 1%
> Carafa II 1%
> 
> Thoughts?


&amp;amp;nbsp;
From the website, the blurb states Grains - Pale, Caramalt, Dark Crystal, Munich, wheat, chocolate. Hops - Cascade, Mosaic, Galaxy


----------



## Weizguy

Here's the screenshot/snip that I had trouble posting yesterday.
From the Modus website:


----------



## Coodgee

It would want to be a f*(king awesome beer for $40. most of us could brew a whole keg of something similar for that price.


----------



## Leyther

Coodgee said:


> It would want to be a f*(king awesome beer for $40. most of us could brew a whole keg of something similar for that price.


Its up there with Pirate Life IIPA IMO!! And similarly priced!! Hence why I want to try source a recipe for it.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

they're pint cans


----------



## Weizguy

FWIW, I went halves with a friend in a case of this beer and now I have 8 X 500ml cans to love , Ok... to drink.

Maybe I can work on a recipe from there, or more likely just to consume and enjoy.




Coodgee said:


> It would want to be a f*(king awesome beer for $40. most of us could brew a whole keg of something similar for that price.



Coodgee, it really is an awesome beer and I recommend you buy just one can.


----------



## 2cranky

This was my favorite IPA last winter.
I'm just a newby to brewing but I'd love to have a crack at it.

how about:
Pale Malt 72%
Caramel/Crystal Malt 23%
Munich Malt 2.5%
Chocolate Malt 2.5%

Hops
Galaxy 1.09 gpl boil 60

Cascade 1.09 gpl boil 10
Galaxy 1.09 gpl boil 10
Mosaic 1.09 gpl boil 10

Cascade 1.5 gpl steep 10
Mosaic 1.5 gpl steep 10

Cascade 1.7 gpl dry hop 4 days
Mosaic 1.7 gpl dry hop 4 days

Yeast
#US-05 2 packs?

on my setup it shows 64.6 IBUs, 38.8 EBC, 7.08% ABV (but I'll probably get 7.6%)


----------



## Droopy Brew

Looks good but suspect your caramel/crystal is arse about with the munich? Switch those around and you will be there abouts.

Yes go 2 pkt US05.


----------



## 2cranky

Droopy Brew said:


> Looks good but suspect your caramel/crystal is arse about with the munich? Switch those around and you will be there abouts.
> 
> Yes go 2 pkt US05.


Thanks DB,
Thought the caramel crystal would be good for body & head. 
Whats the reasoning on upping the Munich? This brings the colour back a bit 35.7 EBC and slightly more orange hue I think.
I haven't tasted the MO IPA for about 4 months and I doubt my experience in brewing would be able to pick it anyway.
how about the hops? what do you think?
i was thinking to mash it as a mid body - I remember the MO IPA didn't taste too sweet.


----------



## goatchop41

You do NOT want 23% crystal in an IPA (can't think of any beer that you would want that much xtal in, actually). In an IPA you'd want to keep it under 10% for the crystal malts - they get too cloying otherwise.....


----------



## BKBrews

2cranky said:


> how about the hops? what do you think?


I've never tried this beer, but judging by the description on the website, I would remove the early galaxy and mosaic. I wouldn't even do any early additions. Maybe some cascade at 20 to up the IBU, then a shitload of cascade, galaxy and mosaic at flameout with just galaxy and mosaic for dry hop.


----------



## LorriSanga

Red ales Ive done Ive used up to 15% crystal. Mixture of Munich & Victory 10% (Jamil - BCS) and P/Choc to colour.


----------



## Leyther

Did you ever put this brew on and if so how did it turn out?

I love this beer and I'm hoping to have my new Guten here for the weekend, hence looking to welcome it with a worthy brew and a MO FT clone would be perfect!!!


----------



## 2cranky

Leyther said:


> Did you ever put this brew on and if so how did it turn out?
> 
> I love this beer and I'm hoping to have my new Guten here for the weekend, hence looking to welcome it with a worthy brew and a MO FT clone would be perfect!!!


yeah not yet. i was hoping for a bit of robust discussion to develop the recipe.
I'm a bit of a noob so I am stumbling about in the dark really. The light brews I think its pretty hard to make a mistake that makes a shit beer, but the bigger beers I'm not so sure. Doing a version of Janets Brown & a big IIPA this weekend so they will be my first big beer brews.


----------



## 2cranky

how about:
Pale Malt 72% 71%
Caramel/Crystal Malt 23% 40L 5.2%
Munich Malt 2.5%  19.4%
Chocolate Malt 2.5% 1.9%
Caramel/Crystal Malt 120L 2.6%

Hops
Galaxy 1.09 gpl boil 60

Cascade 1.09 gpl boil 10
Galaxy 1.09 gpl boil 10
Mosaic 1.09 gpl boil 10

Cascade 1.5 gpl steep 10
Mosaic 1.5 gpl steep 10

Cascade 1.7 gpl dry hop 4 days
Mosaic 1.7 gpl dry hop 4 days

Yeast
#US-05 2 packs

CHAMPION AUSTRALIAN CRAFT BEER IN 2014, THIS BEER IS BURSTING WITH AROMAS OF 
PASSION FRUIT AND MANGO DUE TO A HEAVY HAND ON THE MOSAIC AND GALAXY DRY HOPS,
THIS RUBY RED IPA HAS A COMPLEX BLEND OF CITRUSY HOPS AND SAVOURY CARAMEL MALT FLAVOUR FOLLOWED BY A SLIGHTLY SWEET FINISH. 7.8% ABV


----------



## 2cranky

BKBrews said:


> I've never tried this beer, but judging by the description on the website, I would remove the early galaxy and mosaic. I wouldn't even do any early additions. Maybe some cascade at 20 to up the IBU, then a shitload of cascade, galaxy and mosaic at flameout with just galaxy and mosaic for dry hop.


yeah i still need to work on the hops.


----------



## Ferg

Here is the recipe for 5am Saint by brewdog. It has the same grain bill minus the wheat and the chocolate. When you look at the order of the malts on the MO website, wheat and chocolate are last - a hunch but I reckon they order them by percentage used so you could adjust the 5am saint grain bill and scale up to give you something more appropriate for this beer.
I have brewed that 5am saint recipe and it is delicious as is but in order to clone the former tenant beer you may want to have a play and add the wheat and chocolate malts.
Given the previous comment about the ibus being on the low side for an IPA maybe keep the ratios of the 5am saint recipe the same? 

View attachment 5AM Saint.pdf


----------



## 2cranky

Ferg said:


> Here is the recipe for 5am Saint by brewdog. It has the same grain bill minus the wheat and the chocolate. When you look at the order of the malts on the MO website, wheat and chocolate are last - a hunch but I reckon they order them by percentage used so you could adjust the 5am saint grain bill and scale up to give you something more appropriate for this beer.
> I have brewed that 5am saint recipe and it is delicious as is but in order to clone the former tenant beer you may want to have a play and add the wheat and chocolate malts.
> Given the previous comment about the ibus being on the low side for an IPA maybe keep the ratios of the 5am saint recipe the same?


Had a couple of the 5am Saint last night! 
might have to do a side by side :chug: :chug:


----------



## Ferg

Actually I might just re-brew the 5am saint beer and change out the hops to cascade, mosaic & galaxy. I have a few heavier beers on the go at the minute so something less punchy might be the ticket.


----------



## Leyther

Ive drank them both but IMO the MO is far nicer, I just think they've nailed that balance between the sweet malt and the hops perfectly. I think with a homebrew this is going to be the problem.


----------



## 2cranky

The Home Brew 5am Saint was pretty good, but different. The 5S is only 5%. the MO IPA is 7.8%
Think i need to go a bit mental with the late additions.


----------



## landyjg

Hi Guys,

Have been following this one with interest, as the MO is one of my favourites at the moment.

Looking to brew it up this weekend - this is where I've landed. - Keen to hear any suggestions:


Title: RED IPA
Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Specialty IPA: Red IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 28.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.053
Efficiency: 65% (brew house)
No Chill: 20 minute extended hop boil time
Hop Utilization Multiplier: 1

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.072
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 7.57%
IBU (tinseth): 60.93
SRM (morey): 22.52

FERMENTABLES:
4.8 kg - Pale Ale Malt (63.2%)
0.8 kg - Munich Dark (10.5%)
0.8 kg - Wheat Malt (10.5%)
0.6 kg - Caramel / Crystal 40L (7.9%)
0.4 kg - Cara Malt (5.3%)
0.2 kg - Chocolate Malt (2.6%)

HOPS:
30 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: First Wort, IBU: 14.98
20 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 22.62
20 g - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 23.33
30 g - Mosaic, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 8 days
30 g - Galaxy, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 8 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temp: 67 C, Time: 60 min

YEAST:
White Labs - San Diego Super Yeast WLP090


----------



## Haydos13

I can give a little advice, tried to brew a red IPA a few months ago, I don't have the recipe right now but I used 150g of choc in a 25L batch and it was too much, came out murky brown/black and smothered the hops a bit. I would halve that or even less for next time. Also I wouldn't bitter with galaxy, has a nasty twang to it I find. Late hop it to the moon though, the malty richness of red IPA's can make it hard to push through, I used about 6gpl late and the same dry and there was room for more.


----------



## tj2204

Haydos13 said:


> I can give a little advice, tried to brew a red IPA a few months ago, I don't have the recipe right now but I used *150g of choc in a 25L batch and it was too much,* came out murky brown/black and smothered the hops a bit. I would halve that or even less for next time. Also I wouldn't bitter with galaxy, has a nasty twang to it I find. Late hop it to the moon though, the malty richness of red IPA's can make it hard to push through, I used about 6gpl late and the same dry and there was room for more.


I'd like to 2nd this point.

50gm is about the sweet spot for me, 70gm tops.


----------



## Leyther

Bookmarked this a while ago but forgot about it, anyone tried this one? Sounds like what I'm looking for, nice malt and hops balance https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/shreddin-red-ipa/


----------



## Haydos13

tj2204 said:


> I'd like to 2nd this point.
> 
> 50gm is about the sweet spot for me, 70gm tops.


Sounds about right. I was also thinking of swapping out a little crystal for some Cararoma which has a nice red hue, could maybe then cut the choc back to just a whisper.

this is my modified Red IPA recipe if anyones interested.

25L BIAB

6 kg BB Pale
0.35 kg Carapils
0.15 kg Cararoma
0.15 kg Crystal 60
0.025 kg Choc malt
10g Gypsum

30 g Magnum @ 60min ~30 IBUs
37.5 g each Mosaic + Galaxy whirlpool @ 0min
37.5 g each Mosaic + Galaxy whirlpool @ ~75c
75 g each Mosaic + Galaxy Dry

US05 @ 18c

OG 1.060
FG 1.015
IBU ~60
EBC 22.5
ABV 6.2%


----------



## dirtynidge

Can I ask if you have brewed this yet?

I recall reading in an interview with one of the MO brewers, he said something along the lines of "if people knew the true IBUs of this beer it wouldn't be classed as an IPA".

To me this implied huge whirlpool additions adding perceived bitterness but low IBU numbers and probably no conventional bittering additions at all.


----------



## perko8

just thought I would bump this and see if anyone has had a go brewing any of these recipes yet?


----------



## Mall

I have one of these in the kegerator carbing up. Will be able to taste Wednesday night when back from Sydney..


----------



## 2cranky

yeah,
I put one down the other week. Doing a side by side on the weekend.
It tastes great but i'm not sure how close it is.
Paid 11 and change per can so I hope I'm close!


----------



## perko8

awesome, look forward to hearing about how it tastes!


----------



## landyjg

What was your final recipe, 2cranky??


----------



## 2cranky

23L - 7.2%

pale malt 71%
munich malt 19.4%
crystal medium 5.2%
choc malt 1.9%
crystal dark 2.6%

Hops for a 23 l batch
25g mosaic @ 20
50g cascade @ 20
38g mosaic @10
38g cascade @ 10
25g galaxy steep for 10
35g cascade steep for 10
25g Mosaic steep for 10
25g mosaic dry hop 4 days
40g cascade dry hop 4 days
25g galaxy dry hop 4 days

US-05 yeast.


----------



## 2cranky

it will probably change after this weekend!


----------



## julesmules

This beer is amazing....I'm trying to work on a recipe, extract with specialty grains. I've come up with this......
1.7kg Pale Liquid Extract
2kg Dried Light Extract
1kg Munich Malt
500gm Sucrose
700gm Crystal 120
150gm Chocolate Malt
50gm Midnight Wheat
30gm Perle 8.0 60mins 28.1 IBU
60gm Cascade 5.5 20mins 13.1 IBU
60gm Cascade 5.5 10mins 8.4 IBU
60gm Galaxy 14.0 5mins 18.3 IBU
60gm Mosaic 12.5 5mins 16.3 IBU
60gm Galaxy 14.0 0mins
60gm Mosaic 12.5 0mins
60gm Galaxy 14.0 Dry Hop 6 Days
60gm Mosaic 12.5 Dry Hop 6 Days
2pkt US-05

IBU 84.2
ABV 7.8


I know it's a lot of hops, but the MO people do say "beer first, no shortcuts"

This is my first post on the forum....any comments are welcome. I do like big beers!!


----------



## julesmules

Oops....23lt brew!!


----------



## Reedy

2cranky said:


> 23L - 7.2%
> 
> pale malt 71%
> munich malt 19.4%
> crystal medium 5.2%
> choc malt 1.9%
> crystal dark 2.6%
> 
> Hops for a 23 l batch
> 25g mosaic @ 20
> 50g cascade @ 20
> 38g mosaic @10
> 38g cascade @ 10
> 25g galaxy steep for 10
> 35g cascade steep for 10
> 25g Mosaic steep for 10
> 25g mosaic dry hop 4 days
> 40g cascade dry hop 4 days
> 25g galaxy dry hop 4 days
> 
> US-05 yeast.


Is this a no chill recipe 2cranky (based on all late hop additions)?


----------



## perko8

So keen to hear what the verdict is from those who've had a taste of their attempts


----------



## 2cranky

Reedy said:


> Is this a no chill recipe 2cranky (based on all late hop additions)?


no I chill to fermenting temps in the kettle.
The late additions give more flavour and less bitterness.


----------



## 2cranky

So I did the side by side on the weekend

Colour - kinda nailed it. the colour is right but i didn't gel this one so mines a little cloudy. next time I'll gel. - excuse the generous head in the pic. 

They both taste similar but not the same.
Mines only 7.2% the MO is 7.8% but the higher ABV is really noticeable - more warmth.
The MO has more bitterness as well and this seems to overpower the malt a little.
My recipe is malty with smooth caramel and mild bitterness.

The freshness of the homebrew works for this with lots of hop smells and flavours possibly masking the high ABV.

I tasted these with my neighbor and we both actually preferred the homebrew. 

I think in my next batch I'll up the ABV to 8% and nudge the IBUs up a bit as well.
Currently comes out at 68 IBUs although it doesn't taste anywhere near that.


----------



## perko8

Cheers! That gives us an awesome starting point, glad you like what you've made. Thanks for sharing


----------



## Mall

My version.....turned out very well.


----------



## Reedy

Mall said:


> My version.....turned out very well.
> View attachment 106349



Looks good, what was your recipe?


----------



## Mall

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/472123/red-ipa


----------



## 2cranky

Mall said:


> https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/472123/red-ipa


Hi Mall,
How does it compare to the commercial Modus Operandi - Former tenant red IPA?


----------



## Mall

2cranky said:


> Hi Mall,
> How does it compare to the commercial Modus Operandi - Former tenant red IPA?



I had an original in fridge and did a side by side comparison....When I do again, I will delay the Magnum to probably 20 mins as it came out a touch bitter which might have hidden some of the maltiness compared to the original...but not overly.

An excellent clone all the same!!


----------



## landyjg

Had another can of this one on the weekend, and reminded me to get around to brewing this one up!
Has anyone else had any success with tweaking this one??


----------



## pcqypcqy

Mall said:


> https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/472123/red-ipa



Was wondering what I'd brew next as the weather warms up. Double batch of that recipe looks the business.


----------



## Reedy

I've emailed BYO magazine as they will often contact breweries on behalf of home brewers to get some tips on brewing particular beers.

Have sent them a snapshot of the description from MO's website, fingers crossed!


----------



## pcqypcqy

I dry hopped my double batch yesterday, though the smell out the spunding valve suggested this was total overkill. 300g each Mosaic and Centennial in a double batch. Smells frickin delicious.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Drinking this now. It had a harsh grassiness to it straight out of the kegmenter, but then settled down by the next day. It's perhaps slightly too bitter, and this will probably become more obvious as the hop aroma dissipates.

But, it's a fricking delicious brew and I'm really enjoying it fresh.


----------



## Schikitar

What changes would you make to your recipe? I'm a very big fan of this beer and would love to replicate it some time! MO FT uses cascade, mosaic and galaxy - the choice of mosaic and centennial in the above recipe doesn't seem in line with the original so with that in mind; cascade/mosaic in the boil and then finish with mosaic/galaxy in the cube/dry hop perhaps? How about that malt profile, looking good in terms of colour/body?


----------



## pcqypcqy

I can't compare it to the Brooklyn or the MO beer as I've never tried them.

But, as a beer that I've brewed and drunk, I'd offer the following comments:

The malt bill seems good. Decent colour. Don't have a good photo but it's got a nice red hue to it. Holds itself well against the hops but is in balance.

I did all of the late addition mosiac/centennial as one addition at 5 mins to simplify my brew day.

I would consider reducing or eliminating the magnum 60 minute addition entirely. I would maybe make the mosaic/centennial addition at 10 mins to compensate for the reduced IBU's from eliminating the magnum and see how that goes.

I was sick when I first tasted it so my nose wasn't quite right, so I was getting no aroma which was probably altering my perception of the balance. It's not too bitter by any means, and it's very fresh in the keg so still settling down. 

I took it to the brew club on Saturday and a few people commented on the bitterness and agreed with what I suggested above as something to try next time, but everyone enjoyed it as is. No comments on accuracy of the clone.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I have this cold conditioning now however the FG was a little higher than I expected. Target was 1.013 and it has finished at 1.020. Will end up coming in at 6.5% instead of the required 7.8%. I suspect I should have mashed a little lower than the 67deg that I used. 

What temp did everyone else mash at?

I think this is still going to be an incredible drop as the aroma coming off the fermenter after dry-hopping is divine.


----------



## goatchop41

Bob_Loblaw said:


> I have this cold conditioning now however the FG was a little higher than I expected. Target was 1.013 and it has finished at 1.020. Will end up coming in at 6.5% instead of the required 7.8%. I suspect I should have mashed a little lower than the 67deg that I used.



That there is a yeast problem, not a mash temp problem. Mashing at 67 isn't going to make you end up 7 points higher.
I'd be looking at yeast pitch rate, oxygenation of the wort, and fermentation temps/ramping towards the end of fermentation.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

goatchop41 said:


> That there is a yeast problem, not a mash temp problem. Mashing at 67 isn't going to make you end up 7 points higher.
> I'd be looking at yeast pitch rate, oxygenation of the wort, and fermentation temps/ramping towards the end of fermentation.



I pitched 2 packets of re-hydrated US-05, not great oxygenation however this has never been a problem with finishing too high, and ramped up to 20Deg near the end of ferm.

Not sure what else it could have been.


----------



## pcqypcqy

I mashed at mid 60's from memory.


----------



## 2cranky

67 is fine. my recipe says 66.7! 
I've done a few batches ok. US-05 is pretty reliable as well. Old yeast maybe?


----------



## Tony121

Bob_Loblaw said:


> I pitched 2 packets of re-hydrated US-05, not great oxygenation however this has never been a problem with finishing too high, and ramped up to 20Deg near the end of ferm.
> 
> Not sure what else it could have been.



Check thermometer calibration


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

2cranky said:


> 67 is fine. my recipe says 66.7!
> I've done a few batches ok. US-05 is pretty reliable as well. Old yeast maybe?


I bought the yeast with the grain, but I didn't check the use by dates on the packets - could have been old.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Tony121 said:


> Check thermometer calibration


Yep, new digital thermometer matched with the Robobrew's temp probe. I'm very confident of the mash temp.

Just a good reason to give this another go!


----------



## goatchop41

Bob_Loblaw said:


> I pitched 2 packets of re-hydrated US-05, not great oxygenation however this has never been a problem with finishing too high, and ramped up to 20Deg near the end of ferm.
> 
> Not sure what else it could have been.



What did you hold it at for most of primary ferm before ramping? How quickly did you ramp it?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

goatchop41 said:


> What did you hold it at for most of primary ferm before ramping? How quickly did you ramp it?



Held at 17deg for most of primary and ramped up progressively over 3 days to finish at 20.


----------



## 2cranky

I pitch low 20's and over 24 hours or so get down to 18. for me 17 is a bit cool to start a good ferment. if your O2 is a bit low then its even harder for the little beasties to get going.


----------



## whoosha

I copied Mal's recipe and made a couple of minor amendments. It was to enter at MO clone comp but the comp fell through. But I hope to do a side by side in about a week to compare. It may not be quite as hoppy as the original MO Former Tenant,
My recipe is here.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/551326/red-ipa-former-tenant-
I didn't get the water volumes, and efficiency right for the mash and boil so had to top up with DME to get the right OG.(final volume in fermenter was 25L). And FG only got down to 1.015 so came out around 7.5%.
Feedback from a couple of serious home brewers (part of a big club) was very positive
Let me know if it the recipe is not able to be viewed.
Thanks to all your tips and suggestions on this post.


----------



## Kalthor

whoosha said:


> I copied Mal's recipe and made a couple of minor amendments. It was to enter at MO clone comp but the comp fell through. But I hope to do a side by side in about a week to compare. It may not be quite as hoppy as the original MO Former Tenant,
> My recipe is here.
> https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/551326/red-ipa-former-tenant-
> I didn't get the water volumes, and efficiency right for the mash and boil so had to top up with DME to get the right OG.(final volume in fermenter was 25L). And FG only got down to 1.015 so came out around 7.5%.
> Feedback from a couple of serious home brewers (part of a big club) was very positive
> Let me know if it the recipe is not able to be viewed.
> Thanks to all your tips and suggestions on this post.



Hey mate, I wasn't able to view your recipe on brewersfriend due to a "Permisson Error".
Any chance you could make the recipe public?

I'm trying to make an extract version myself....


----------



## Dazza88

Just had a schooner of this, what a great beer. Reading this thread there doesn't seem to be any concensus on a final recipe.


----------



## yochris77

My Former Tenant looks like the below. I am pretty happy with it. I am a rookie so wasn't going to change anything until I brew it again as my processes have improved since I brewed this.

21L Batch
4.90 kg Pale Malt 71.1 % 
1.33 kg Munich, Light 19.2 % 
0.36 kg Medium Crystal Malt 5.2 % 
0.18 kg Crystal, Dark 2.6 % 
0.13 kg Chocolate Malt 1.9 % 

Mash at 64.4 for 75mins
Batch Sparge

35.00 g Cascade - Boil 15.0 min
18.00 g Mosaic - Boil 15.0 min
25.00 g Cascade - Boil 5.0 min
25.00 g Mosaic - Boil 5.0 min
26.00 g Cascade - Whirlpool
20.00 g Galaxy - Whirlpool 
20.00 g Mosaic - Whirlpool 

2 x Mangrove Jack M44 US West Coast Yeast

40.00 g Cascade - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 
25.00 g Galaxy - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 
25.00 g Mosaic - Dry Hop 4.0 Days

OG - 1.066
FG - 1.008


----------



## Liam_snorkel

mash temp seems a little low for such a chewy beer. Looks delicious though


----------



## Dazza88

Cheers yochris


----------



## Moad

How'd it come out @yochris77 ? I've finally got to this in the pipeline so will be brewing it in a month or so

I ran late this year on my brew schedule so just brewing my porter in the next week or two which means it'll be towards the end of winter before I am drinking it.

Time to start looking at some ambers and wheats for spring!


----------



## yochris77

Got to get a lager on first, then I’ll be brewing this again. I don’t think I will make any changes but my process and equipment has improved a lot since I did this last. 

Let me know how you go and you thoughts


----------



## Schikitar

My brother and I are looking to brew a version of this in the next week or two, here's what we've come up with based off of the can and also other sources (our hop schedule looks bigger than above(!?), we've shifted 25% of the total IBUs to FWH and all the late hops to whirlpool/aroma to avoid boil off of the essential oils)..

Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Efficiency: ~73% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.075
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 7.8%
IBU (tinseth): 79.01 (aiming for 10x the ABV)
SRM (morey): 18.69

FERMENTABLES:
4.3 kg - Maris Otter Pale (62.8%)
1.25 kg - Vienna Malt (18.2%)
400 g - Wheat Malt (5.8%)
600 g - Cara Malt (8.8%)
200 g - CaraAroma (2.9%)
100 g - Chocolate (1.5%) - late addition

HOPS:
20g - Cascade, AA: 7.3, Use: First Wort, IBU: 19.5
50g - Cascade, AA: 7.3, Use: Whirlpool, IBU: 13.91
40g - Galaxy, AA: 15.3, Use: Whirlpool, IBU: 23.32
50g - Mosaic, AA: 11.7, Use: Whirlpool, IBU: 22.29
80g - Galaxy, AA: 15.3, Use: Aroma
60g - Mosaic, AA: 11.7, Use: Aroma
40g - Cascade, AA: 7.3, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
50g - Mosaic, AA: 11.7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
50g - Galaxy, AA: 15.3, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 each - Whirlfloc
0.5 tsp - Yeast Nutrient

YEAST:
Mangrove Jack - New World Strong Ale M42
Fermentation Temp: 19 C

We're still tweaking..


----------



## SolitaryBee

I just began all-grain brewing, and this is the first thing I wanted to brew. So I signed up to say thanks for the inspiration and ideas. I really want to drink FT regularly, but can't afford to!

My recipe is here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/667174/errant-foment-red-ipa-

Compared to a can dated 06/03/18

Appearance (sorry, can't upload a photo as a new member):
Colour is super close. The homebrew (HB) leans ever so slightly towards amber, while the FT has a genuine cherry red hue. Head on the FT is a more tan colour, compared to paler HB.

Aroma:
Not dissimilar! But there are distinct differences. FT smells of resinous pine, stewed fruit, ripe pineapple and dark Christmas cake. HB has a lighter, more green, tropical melon-fruit aroma, pineapple and passionfruit, and lacks the pine of the FT.

Taste:
Both beers are initially malty. FT has an early slightly sour acid, before rich palate-coating resin, big bread and biscuit and strong lingering bitterness. HB is sweeter, bitterness is similarly lingering but not as assertive up front, malt character a bit more restrained.

Overall:
Not a perfect clone, but the home brew is in the ballpark. I wanted to all-grain brew so I could make the beer I really wanted to drink, and this is almost as good as the real thing. I find the slightly more restrained, sweeter (but this is still a big red IPA!) character of the home-brew makes it easier to come back for more, but the FT is the beer that smacks you in the cheeks and makes you pay attention. I’m pretty stoked to have a couple of cases of this in store, especially when the FT is $13/500mL!

Next time I would back the crystal off a touch and lower mash temp. 

Any ideas on how to match the big pine hit of FT? I might just have under-hopped.


----------



## Schikitar

SolitaryBee said:


> Any ideas on how to match the big pine hit of FT? I might just have under-hopped.


Only thing I'd say is that your whirlpool additions seem a little light, I brewed my version last weekend (actually changed from what I posted above so I need to update that) but I had whirlpool and aroma additions at about 6-7g/L each. I also used some simcoe as that's meant to provide that resinous pine hit. I only pitched yesterday so I won't know for a while how it'll turn out.. was thinking about doing a dry hop on day 3 or 4, not sure..


----------



## SolitaryBee

I should add that I sacrificed some Former Tenant to the hydrometer, and a degassed sample was measured at 1017 SG.


----------



## scomet

SolitaryBee said:


> I really want to drink FT regularly, but can't afford to!


Who can? not me thats for sure, I had to pay $18/500ml! in the west I got a discount for a 4pack even so with 2 cans of Pirate life I got sod all change from $100. wasn’t too impressed with the PL but the FTR is Beautiful but a price tag to make you $hit…
Thx for everyones input into this thread FTR is high on my list of todobrews - Cheers


----------



## yochris77

Moad said:


> How'd it come out @yochris77 ? I've finally got to this in the pipeline so will be brewing it in a month or so
> 
> I ran late this year on my brew schedule so just brewing my porter in the next week or two which means it'll be towards the end of winter before I am drinking it.
> 
> Time to start looking at some ambers and wheats for spring!


Kegged the latest FT clone about 2 weeks ago. CO2 bottle ran out, been travelling and usy, blah, blah, blah.

Did a side-by-side tonight. The MOFT I bought may be a little old. The bottlo is good enough to have a range of mainstream/popular craft, but not good enough to turn them over quick enough to ensure they are fresh. The date on the can is illegible.

Now take this as you like - I don't profess to be a sensory wizard. I am really happy with my brew. It has aroma and flavour, some punch that I missed last time. The MOFT had more of a malty aroma with a hop aroma more towards the dark fruit cake end as @SolitaryBee mentioned. Mine was more to what I would expect from Cascade/Mosaic (biased, i know). Colour looks to be spot on (photo later). I reviewed my water chemistry and I wonder if my SO4-Cl ratio of 5.68 is a little high. Total SO4 was 125ppm. Next time I will aim for a ratio of around 4. 

Other than that, I am happy as. At the moment I BIAB+sparge and have dialled in my efficiency so I am hitting my numbers which I did not do last time. My first addition is at 15 mins, so I adjusted my recipe to make total boil time 20 mins. I have no problems with this and would do it again. The additional grain required is negligible cost. As for changes for next time - I think the water chemistry is all I will change. 

Happy for everyone to comment and let me know their thoughts. Cheers!


----------



## yochris77

HB is in the Pilsner tulip.


----------



## garage_life

I've never brewed one or used this recipe but I have this saved in my notes. Hope it helps but take with a grain of salt for reference.


----------



## yoboseyo

just wondering, are you doing biotransformation dry hops in your recipes?


----------



## yochris77

Not me. I whirlpool a lot and then dry hop for 4 days.


----------



## SolitaryBee

yoboseyo said:


> just wondering, are you doing biotransformation dry hops in your recipes?



US-05 is a strain of questionable biotransformation capacity. It's possible there's some going on (e.g. acting on oils from whirlpooling), but not really the aim of this recipe.


----------



## Moad

I finally got around to brewing this, just sampled out of the fermenter and it is tasting very good. Colour is a little light.

I'll post back here in a week or two with some feedback.



Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 107.00 L
Post Boil Volume: 87.50 L
Batch Size (fermenter): 80.00 L 
Bottling Volume: 75.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 34.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 75.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume 
20.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) 78.9 % 
2.30 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) 9.1 % 
1.60 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 65L (Bairds) 6.3 % 
1.35 kg Crystal, Dark (Joe White) (216.7 EBC) 5.3 % 
0.10 kg Chocolate Malt (Bairds) (985.0 EBC) 0.4 % 
60.00 g Warrior [15.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min 
100.00 g Galaxy [15.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min 
150.00 g Cascade [7.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min 
150.00 g Galaxy [15.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 10.0 min 
150.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 
6.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) 
85.00 g Cascade [7.30 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days 
85.00 g Galaxy [15.80 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days 
85.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.50 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days 
170.00 g Galaxy [15.80 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 
85.00 g Cascade [7.30 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 
85.00 g Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.50 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 Days 


mash @ 67


I hit OG about 1.069 and FG is 1.011 = 7.7% but it will likely be a bit more dry than anticipated.


----------



## scomet

Moad said:


> I finally got around to brewing this, just sampled out of the fermenter


Cheers Moad, that's a shed load of hops in there look forward to your tasting notes. This is getting higher on my 'brew list' I'll wait to here your opinion.


----------



## SolitaryBee

Moad said:


> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Boil Size: 107.00 L
> Post Boil Volume: 87.50 L
> Batch Size (fermenter): 80.00 L
> Bottling Volume: 75.00 L



Well that is rather a lot of beer to both bottle and drink... 

Looking forward to the tasting notes on final product.


----------



## Moad

results are in...

Kegged and force carbed so still some settling and mellowing to do but initial taste is bloody good.

It is definitely lighter than the real thing, it isn't quite as chewy as I expected

Bitterness and malt profile are pretty close and it is a little more late/aroma hop dominant than I wanted but that should mellow a little.

I was about 9L over my volume so will boil off a little more next time and that should bring the colour and gravity back to targets.

Even though it isn't spot on it is still a cracking beer, will definitely brew this again


----------



## yochris77

I rebrewed this recently. I found it a bit too dry. I am going to it again soon but will add some Munich this time and possibly look at changing dry hop to get more aroma.


----------



## SolitaryBee

yochris77 said:


> I rebrewed this recently. I found it a bit too dry. I am going to it again soon but will add some Munich this time and possibly look at changing dry hop to get more aroma.


OG and SG? I'll probably rebrew soon too.


----------



## yochris77

1.060/1.008


----------

