# Whirlfloc and Irish Moss



## Trevandjo (15/2/14)

I bought some Irish Moss tabs from G&G late last year. I've just received some whirlfloc tabs from my local US supplier. They both look identical. I was sure that they are different. 

Any thoughts?


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## pk.sax (15/2/14)

Both have worked the same for me. I believe some 'Irish moss' tabs are just repackaged bulk bought whirlfloc.


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## idzy (15/2/14)

No idea, I used to use Whirlfloc and have changed to Brewbrite, because I can get it much cheaper. Seem to work the same as each other. I have found cold crashing for a week to have the most dramatic impact (only from a clarity POV). Have no comments on flavour impact, seem the same also and haven't brewed without.


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## TimT (15/2/14)

I'd been using Irish moss tablets in my brews, though hadn't noticed much of a difference. When I ran out of those I got some Irish moss from the naturopath, still in its original seaweed state - in fact the sand wasn't even washed off it. Used a pinch of that in one of my brews too - still, no noticeable effect. Have used agar in a few brews too - again, who can tell whether it's doing anything or not? Even beers that I make without those substances seem to clarify well, and anyway, if a particular beer was hazy I think it would like pretty - ie, I'm not too fussed about clarity.


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## philmud (15/2/14)

I'm under the impression that they are the same. Is Whirlfloc a brand name perhaps? They make a big difference in the clarity of what cones out of my kettle, but whether this would floccuate in the fermenter anyway, who knows? I like to use Irish moss and cold crashing (though in the summer my fridge won't get below circa 3.5C - I think CC is technically =/< 2C, but it still seems to help).


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## TimT (15/2/14)

I wonder if they function as a bit of a yeast nutrient too. My house book of brewing recipes is Laurie Strachan's 'Complete Guide' and his recipes include Irish Moss but no yeast nutrient.


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## TimT (15/2/14)

I was under the impression they were the same too.


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## MHB (15/2/14)

[SIZE=medium]Irish moss is a seaweed, found in it are a family of chemicals known collectively as Carrageenans, researchers have isolated Alpha, Beta, Gama, Delta... right out past Kappa forms of Carrageenan.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]When you add Irish moss to a kettle it takes about 10-15 minutes for the Carrageenan to unravel, then as the wort cools it causes protein to clump and helps it precipitate (flock).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Irish moss is the least refined and most unpredictable of kettle fining options[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Whirlfloc is cleaned and ground Irish moss and a dispersant (the part that makes it whirl (about ½ of the mass of the tablet)) it is more predictable and the dosage control is easier as it is standardised. Available under various names and in both tablet form and as powder (Kopperfloc)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Brew Bright is blend of PVPP and isolated Kappa Carrageenan (the most effective form) and both chemically binds polyphenols that cause chill haze and reduces the protein in the wort.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Over the years I have tried everything on the market and don’t think anything else comes close to Brew Bright. Its easy to use and very effective.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Mark[/SIZE]


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## lukiferj (15/2/14)

Great explanation Mark. I too use Brew Brite and find it is both cheaper and more effective than anything else I've tried.


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## Dan2 (15/2/14)

MHB said:


> [SIZE=medium]. . Over the years I have tried everything on the market and don’t think anything else comes close to Brew Bright. .[/SIZE]


Very handy to know. I have one brew of whirlfloc left then onto brewbrite which I've had in the cupboard for a while since another member praised it's effectiveness


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## Trevandjo (15/2/14)

MHB said:


> Irish moss is a seaweed, found in it are a family of chemicals known collectively as Carrageenans, researchers have isolated Alpha, Beta, Gama, Delta... right out past Kappa forms of Carrageenan.
> When you add Irish moss to a kettle it takes about 10-15 minutes for the Carrageenan to unravel, then as the wort cools it causes protein to clump and helps it precipitate (flock).
> Irish moss is the least refined and most unpredictable of kettle fining options
> Whirlfloc is cleaned and ground Irish moss and a dispersant (the part that makes it whirl (about ½ of the mass of the tablet)) it is more predictable and the dosage control is easier as it is standardised. Available under various names and in both tablet form and as powder (Kopperfloc)
> ...


Thanks Mark. This makes a lot of sense.


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## willo69a (16/2/14)

I used Irish moss yesterday for the first time in a gluten free wetpak. Are U ment to crush the tablet or put it in whole? I put it in whole with 10min left in the boil and found that the tablet had not disolved by the time I was putting it into the FV. Sorry for hijacking this thread
Cheers willo


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## philmud (16/2/14)

Hi Willo, you're supposed to crush it up first.


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## mckenry (16/2/14)

Prince Imperial said:


> Hi Willo, you're supposed to crush it up first.


No, you're not 'supposed' to crush it. Just break a tablet in half for a 20ish L batch or a whole tab for a double. It works without being crushed and I suppose it would work just as well crushed.


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## Trevandjo (16/2/14)

willo69a said:


> I used Irish moss yesterday for the first time in a gluten free wetpak. Are U ment to crush the tablet or put it in whole? I put it in whole with 10min left in the boil and found that the tablet had not disolved by the time I was putting it into the FV. Sorry for hijacking this thread
> Cheers willo


Hi Willo, the instructions with mine say to crush 1/2 tab with 1/2 cup water for 23L batch.


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## HBHB (16/2/14)

Just toss it into the boil 10 minutes before flame out. I'll fizz around like a madman and dissolve/disperse throughout the boil.


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## TimT (16/2/14)

I used to crumble it in my fingers over the boil.


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## Bribie G (16/2/14)

Since getting onto BrewBright I haven't used Whirlfloc for years. I cream up the BB with cold water to a runny paste, chuck it in and BAM- instant breadcrumb soup.


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## willo69a (16/2/14)

thanks for your reply's fellas. the instructions in the wetpak said just put it in with 10 to go and it definitely didn't dissolve. I tried to brake it up with my spoon but it was hard as a rock so next time may have to crush it up. cheers


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## philmud (16/2/14)

mckenry said:


> No, you're not 'supposed' to crush it. Just break a tablet in half for a 20ish L batch or a whole tab for a double. It works without being crushed and I suppose it would work just as well crushed.


You probably don't rehydrate your yeast either. Willo, if it didn't dissolve, crushing it will definitely help.


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## TimT (16/2/14)

I always found even when I chucked in a chunk of Irish Moss (I got it in tablets) into the boil, the water would fizz and it would dissolve pretty quickly.

In my copy of Buhner's _Sacred Healing and Herbal Beers_ there's a record of a 19th century recipe for Irish Moss Ale, though even the original 19th century person writing the recipe down says it reminds him of an 'old story' about an ingenious person making soup out of a rock with the help of a few 'trifling' ingredients such as herbs, salt, pepper, beef, and stock.


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## pcmfisher (17/2/14)

Does whirlfloc/brewbrite work in hot wort or only when its cooled?
Like if you whirlpool when still hot then use a plate chiller straight into the fermenter? Will the proteins be left in the kettle?


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## mckenry (17/2/14)

Prince Imperial said:


> You probably don't rehydrate your yeast either. Willo, if it didn't dissolve, crushing it will definitely help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Re-reading the question from willo69 he does specifically ask about Irish Moss, not whirlfloc, so I accept there are instructions out there saying to crush it. I was referring to Whirlfloc, which does not need crushing, ever. As for your dig about my yeast handling, you have no idea.


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## GalBrew (17/2/14)

Whirlfloc does not need to be crushed. That is the whole point of the 'whirl' part, it rapidly dissolves in boiling wort.


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## philmud (17/2/14)

mckenry said:


> Re-reading the question from willo69 he does specifically ask about Irish Moss, not whirlfloc, so I accept there are instructions out there saying to crush it. I was referring to Whirlfloc, which does not need crushing, ever. As for your dig about my yeast handling, you have no idea.


Relax tiger, my "dig" about yeast handling was a reference to the epic hydrate/don't hydrate debate of 2013 and was meant good humouredly. I realised that Willo was asking about Irish Moss, and in an inspiring display of logic, calibrated my original response to him accordingly.


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## idzy (17/2/14)

If some are curious about checking break material, a good way is to do a no hopped brew and then drain the kettle. When I did this for a split of 5x 10l SMaSH brew, the break material was very evident and you can see how well it works.

Like coagulated blood.


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## Trevandjo (17/2/14)

Prince Imperial said:


> You probably don't rehydrate your yeast either. Willo, if it didn't dissolve, crushing it will definitely help.
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1392542582.662533.jpg


.

I'm loving the passionate debate about my original post. I've got this same pack with the same instructions. I've also got a pack of US 'Whilflock' with no instructions which look identical. I'm sure now that they're the same thing and you possibly could use them without crushing. Personally I let the kids crush half a tab with a spoon handle. It keeps the away from the boiling pot. 

Alas, I'm off to work and a month with no beer so for now it's a dry argument for me. 

Cheers, 

Trev


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