# Liquid Vs Dry Yeast - Im Converted - Should I Be?



## bear09 (1/3/11)

Hey All,

Have been brewing for a few years now and am addicted beyond belief. I am an AG brewer with a 3 tier setup. Nothing crazy.

Up until the last 6 months I have always used dry yeast. I found it cheaper and easier - which I liked.

My beer was always OK and I was always frustrated by this. I tried water chemistry, PH modification with salts, longer mashes, simpler recipes and always the same result - 'just ok - good beer'.

The catalyst for change was when I made a coopers pale ale clone using a culture of yeast from the bottom of a coopers stubbie - This beer was much better then good - it was great. I became a temporary alcoholic and drank the keg on my own in 13 days - yes thats a 19 litre keg in 13 days (1.46 Litres a DAY!!!!!!!!!) - scary.

Being a drunk aside, this was great beer and the only thing I changed was the yeast. Next brew I did I bought a wyeast 1272 and made a 2L starter and same deal - GREAT beer. I then bought the book 'Yeast' and read it cover to cover it then affirmed what I had just discovered - YEAST IS VERY VERY VERY VERY important to the beer you make.

Now for the point of this post...

Can dry yeast produce GREAT beer? People on these forums speak of US-05 all the time. Ross at CB stocks a massive range of dry yeast. I NEVER rehydrated my dry yeast. Could that have been my biggest fault?

What are peoples preference? I dont think I will ever go back to dry yeast. Saving a few bucks and some time for me is not worth it if after all the effort of AG brewing you end up with 'just ok beer'. Im a convert to liquid yeasts and I cannot get over the range an flexibility they offer my brewing - I have really stepped up now that I use liquid.

Cheers.


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## mje1980 (1/3/11)

I basically only use liquids for my UK ales, i really like the character of the beers brewed with these. US ales i dont mind US 05. Dont make many weizens, but when i do im happy with WB06 ( is that it? ).

I think dry yeast can make great beer, though i just think there's a little extra complexity and character with liquids.


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## seemax (1/3/11)

Depends on the style of beer you're brewing.

For APA's i find Us05 or Nottingham does a good job, but they are hop driven beers.

Some styles are defined by the flavour that the yeast produces... in which case it's difficult to produce with dry yeast.


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## Bribie G (1/3/11)

Great book, that Yeast:

"Brewers make wort, yeast make beer" 

The only dry yeast I use nowadays is US-05 when I'm looking for a super clean blonde ale or fake lager etc. Even then I splash out on the Wy1056 which is a close brother, if I have an order in with Craftbrewer. Now, not all liquid yeasts are to my taste. I absolutely love 1469 and Irish 1084. However I've tried 1968 London ESB and it makes (to my taste) rather chewy, dull beers - I've tried it on a few recipes so it's not just the recipe. Others rave on about it. So many yeasts so little time. 

My biggest adventure nowadays is getting into liquid lager yeasts. I'm upgrading my fridges setup so I can do Style-Nazi lagers at 10 degrees without going insane after a couple of months. Got a BoPils on Wyeast Urquell right now with a Pale Continental Lager on Wyeast Danish planned for when the BoPils is out of primary. :icon_cheers:


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## Nick JD (1/3/11)

If Wyeast also sold their entire range in dry form I'd buy it dry. 

Liquid yeasts are better for me because that strain is not available dry.


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## [email protected] (1/3/11)

bear09 said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Have been brewing for a few years now and am addicted beyond belief. I am an AG brewer with a 3 tier setup. Nothing crazy.
> 
> ...



It's very easy to store you're liquid yeasts to save $$ and trips to the brewstore. Everyone has a different method. I like to make a starter a couple days before brewing with 1 L of wort made from dry malt extract. Simply keep about 100 mls of the starter in the fridge in a smaller container for later use (be very very careful with sanitation).


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## bear09 (1/3/11)

Hi Again.

Thanks for the quick replies. It seems as though I am in the right place then. I love that quote "Brewers make wort, Yeast make beer" - it is so very true. For me I am just so glad that I have discivered another way to further improve my beer. the major draw back with this is that I end up drinking far more then one should each night!!

Good brewing to you. Further comments and advice if anyone has them...


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## Sammus (1/3/11)

I'm not sure how much different rehydrating makes, all my american pale ale's and done with US05 and people seem to like them. I've also used plenty of liquids, but only when the occasion calls for it (uk beers, belgians, wheats...).

P.S. 1.46L a day isn't a drunk, at least not on this forum. I got flamed badly here a while ago because I said I thought 6 long necks (that's 4.5L) a day was a tad excessive... suddenly everyone was up in arms saying that's reasonable consumption and i was some brainless sucker falling for some government brainwashing scheme of what is and isnt binge drinking or some crap...


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## bear09 (1/3/11)

Sammus said:


> I'm not sure how much different rehydrating makes, all my american pale ale's and done with US05 and people seem to like them. I've also used plenty of liquids, but only when the occasion calls for it (uk beers, belgians, wheats...).
> 
> P.S. 1.46L a day isn't a drunk, at least not on this forum. I got flamed badly here a while ago because I said I thought 6 long necks (that's 4.5L) a day was a tad excessive... suddenly everyone was up in arms saying that's reasonable consumption and i was some brainless sucker falling for some government brainwashing scheme of what is and isnt binge drinking or some crap...



HOLY CRAP! That is a little scary!

I hate to admit it and I may well get flamed here for saying it but I have to be honest with myself - beer is bad for you .

Its a tragedy I know but beer is rife with residual sugars (malt sugars are the highest is GI apparently and the worst to ingest), carbs and then of course ALCOHOL. I try to moderate my intake due to these things. I wish it was not this way but its a fact in life - all things that feel good are bad for you except sex (oh and that can be bad for you too in some ways)...

Ah well. Cant live forever though!


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## Paul H (1/3/11)

You can't make great beer using dry yeast.

Cheers

Paul


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## jonocarroll (1/3/11)

Paul H said:


> You can't make great beer using dry yeast.


Define "great beer".


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## Bribie G (1/3/11)

Apart from a few years off in the 90s I've been drinking around the equivalent of 9 stubbies a day for the last 40 years and often a lot more. My liver is in good shape and many people take me for 10 years younger than I really am - at work recently someone spotted my Seniors Card when I opened my wallet and nearly fell over backwards  

When they say I'm well preserved, yes that sums it up :drinks: 

As you can see there's nothing wrong with my brain either


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## felten (1/3/11)

Plenty of awards have been won using dried yeast, just look at the 2010 state/national comps.


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## Nick JD (1/3/11)

Paul H said:


> You can't make great beer using dry yeast.



You can't make trolling comments without sweeping generalisations.


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## QldKev (1/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> If Wyeast also sold their entire range in dry form I'd buy it dry.
> 
> Liquid yeasts are better for me because that strain is not available dry.




Agreed! Use the correct yeast for the beer; if it's available dry excellent, if not get liquid.

edit: Also get the temps correct for the beer style and yeast strain you are using. 

QldKev


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## Fents (1/3/11)

BribieG said:


> at work recently someone spotted my Seniors Card when I opened my wallet and nearly fell over backwards



was that cocko? :lol:


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## bear09 (1/3/11)

BribieG said:


> Apart from a few years off in the 90s I've been drinking around the equivalent of 9 stubbies a day for the last 40 years and often a lot more. My liver is in good shape and many people take me for 10 years younger than I really am - at work recently someone spotted my Seniors Card when I opened my wallet and nearly fell over backwards
> 
> When they say I'm well preserved, yes that sums it up :drinks:
> 
> ...



I am truly amazed you are still here with us... 9 freakin stubbies a day!! After a week of that I would be dead.


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## Paul H (1/3/11)

QuantumBrewer said:


> Define "great beer".



Beer that is great...

Cheers

Paul


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (1/3/11)

QldKev said:


> Agreed! Use the correct yeast for the beer; if it's available dry excellent, if not get liquid.
> 
> edit: Also get the temps correct for the beer style and yeast strain you are using.
> 
> QldKev



Yup - have used Nottingham dried yeast as my main yeast for almost a year. Produced some fantastic beer last winter, but then rubbish in summer. Researched it and found that it really does not like warm temps, though thrives (for an ale yeast) at lower temps, hence why my winter beers were fantastic.

Goomba


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## Wolfy (1/3/11)

bear09 said:


> What are peoples preference? I dont think I will ever go back to dry yeast. Saving a few bucks and some time for me is not worth it if after all the effort of AG brewing you end up with 'just ok beer'. Im a convert to liquid yeasts and I cannot get over the range an flexibility they offer my brewing - I have really stepped up now that I use liquid.


I think its a mistake to suggest you'd never use dry yeast, just as its a mistake to never use liquid yeast, both have their place and both are suitable for specific purposes.

Dry yeast is quick and easy to use and can be stored for a long period, its always good to have some on hand for a backup where a starter may get infected or fail, and as others have said US05 is a very clean yeast that is useful when you are making a hop driven beer (for example).

The biggest advantage of liquid yeasts is the vast number of different yeast strains available, many of which are simply not available in dry form.


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## jonocarroll (1/3/11)

Paul H said:


> Beer that is great...


Well, I've made great beers with dry yeast. Case closed.

QuantumBrewer (you know it's me, there's my name and avatar there to the left, but it seems popular to put one's username after one's post, so here it is).


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## Brad Churchill (1/3/11)

I have found as have others that my APA's come up pretty great with dry yeast.
Have even used S-04 when I ran out of S-05 and produced a lovely beer.

But yeah I am in the process of trying differnt liquid yeasts for my English style beers because I am not as impressed with how these are turning out.

Cheers

Brad


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## Dave70 (1/3/11)

So if I make a starter with S05, does it then become a liquid yeast?
Dose the life of the yeast begin in the wort or in the packet?
Dose this sound to much like the abortion debate?


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## Fodder (1/3/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Yup - have used Nottingham dried yeast as my main yeast for almost a year. _*Produced some fantastic beer last winter, but then rubbish in summer*_. Researched it and found that it really does not like warm temps, though thrives (for an ale yeast) at lower temps, hence why my winter beers were fantastic.
> 
> Goomba




:icon_offtopic: My problem exactly! Thus the other thread of ways to keep my brew cool... :icon_offtopic: 

Back on channel... never used a liquid yeast. Still had some 'great beer' though, which was beer that tasted great (if thats the definition we are going by... :unsure: )


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## raven19 (1/3/11)

Paul H said:


> You can't make great beer using dry yeast.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul





felten said:


> Plenty of awards have been won using dried yeast, just look at the 2010 state/national comps.



Yup - 3 of the top 4 beers all used dry yeast iirc.


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## Nick JD (1/3/11)

I've found that in general, dry yeasts tend to be the more bland yeasts (bland, in a good way). 

It's as if it's difficult to dehydrate a yeast that's got a lot of character. 

If you want lots of yeast-derived flavours and aromas in beer you're most likely using a liquid yeast.


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## felten (1/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> It's as if it's difficult to dehydrate a yeast that's got a lot of character.



That sounds spot on, AFAIK the drying process is very strenuous and a lot of the strains don't perform the way you expect them to after they're dried.


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## drew9242 (1/3/11)

Ever since i used liquid yeast, I have never used dry again. The first beer i made with liquid yeast turned out fantastic, so i didn't see any point going back to dry yeast. I just love the flavour off all me yeasts in a beer. And for me i don't see the point of spending all this time making a beer with just dried yeast, when i am not 100% happy with the outcome.


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## speedie (1/3/11)

as has been posted the possibilities of dehydrated yeast is huge consistent and award winning
repeatable and without all that handling for possible infections
try to improve your brewing regime that is in pratice now (with powdered yeast) and you will be rewarded with your efforts
dam i am now drinking a nelson hopped beer using US05 and it is rewarding to say the least
speedie


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## rotten (2/3/11)

Gday mate. I started using dry yeast with great result, then started using liquid. WY2112 (californian common) was first liquid, the WY1469 (yorkshire ale) was my second. I brewed at least 3 brews using 2112 and I lost track with 1469, (10?) re-using yeastcake. Very cost effective and great beers all of them, nearly  
I'm now back using US-05, a dry yeast, to punch out some APA's in quick succession, again using yeastcake. Will be less than 1$ a brew by the time I change.
They all have their place, liquid seems to have a more specific place or flavour in mind.
Cheers


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## bear09 (2/3/11)

Hi All.

Some bloody great discussion going on here so thank you. One point though I guess I would like to ask all the people waving the 'dry yeast' flag, is do you rehydrate?

I never did and I was never happy with my results. If I find that people are rehydrating a may change my ways.

Also, a very good point about having some dry yeast on hand as a backup - I never thought of that. Id be screwed if I lost a starter and was sitting there with 22L of cooled wort and no yeast. I will get some as backup.


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## Frag_Dog (2/3/11)

My 2c...

I think its not a Dry vs Liquid yeast issue. I think it has more to do with pitching rates and lag time. The fact that dried yeast has to re-hydrate in the sugary wort and then get going vs liquids up-and-go I think plays a bigger part.

I've made some good beers with both liquid and dry. I find if you hydrate the dry in some boiled and cooled water (I just use water that's left over in the tea kettle), it makes dry comparable to liquid.


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## bear09 (2/3/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> My 2c...
> 
> I think its not a Dry vs Liquid yeast issue. I think it has more to do with pitching rates and lag time. The fact that dried yeast has to re-hydrate in the sugary wort and then get going vs liquids up-and-go I think plays a bigger part.
> 
> I've made some good beers with both liquid and dry. I find if you hydrate the dry in some boiled and cooled water (I just use water that's left over in the tea kettle), it makes dry comparable to liquid.




AH HA! This is the point that I was waiting for someone to make. I think this is the only major difference in my process that is screwing with my dried yeast results. The next time I try a dried yeast i shall be rehydrating.


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## speedie (2/3/11)

this is how brew day unfolds 
mash in get things organised for rests
rehydrate in cooled boiled water the correct amount of yeast
wait for activity while mashing
add some cooled wort from run off while sparging
this gets yeast happy
boil as per normal
when all wort is areated .cooled and into fermenter add the active culture bingo!
it will be crunching sugar in no time
speedster :icon_cheers:


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## mje1980 (2/3/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> My 2c...
> 
> I think its not a Dry vs Liquid yeast issue. I think it has more to do with pitching rates and lag time. The fact that dried yeast has to re-hydrate in the sugary wort and then get going vs liquids up-and-go I think plays a bigger part.
> 
> I've made some good beers with both liquid and dry. I find if you hydrate the dry in some boiled and cooled water (I just use water that's left over in the tea kettle), it makes dry comparable to liquid.




I have found rehydrating seems to get things going a lot quicker, and usually gives a better result IMHO. 

P.S nice avatar, moss is classic!!


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## argon (2/3/11)

:icon_offtopic: Firstly, that's 2 posts in a row that are actually helpful, informative, and well written (and in standard font) speedie. What's going on?

Anyway... as outlined above i'm adding my plus 1 to the camp of dry yeast for quick easy neutral profile and liquid yeast for more complex profile.

Essentially i only use liquid when i can't get it in dry form. I always reydrate and always have some dry yeast at hand. For example i accidentally opened the wrong cube when i only had 1 starter of 1272 ready. So i just rehydrated a spare US05 and pitched that to one cube and the starter to the other. Got me out of a spot of bother for sure.


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## Wolfy (2/3/11)

bear09 said:


> One point though I guess I would like to ask all the people waving the 'dry yeast' flag, is do you rehydrate?


Always.

While you can get adequate results just throwing the yeast in, mostly all published literature - including the guides on the yeast manufacturer's websites - all suggest to rehydrate dry yeast. It does not take long, its easy to do, and (I think) you get better and more consistent results.


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## stux (2/3/11)

The popular dried yeast strains are yeast strains which can survive the drying and rehydrating process and maintain their true character.

You should rehydrate them properly... and then you have a liquid yeast.

If I can source a strain in dried form, I use that, otherwise if it only comes in liquid form, I use that.

I've re-used and re-washed dried and liquid yeasts.

There is a greater variety of liquid yeasts for two reasons

1) not all strains can be economically dried
2) the big dry yeast manufacturers produce a much higher volume of yeast than for a liquid yeast run... so its only economical producing a very very popular dried yeast, where as liquid yeast production might be more economical for smaller batches


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## matr (2/3/11)

I've only just started rehydrating my dry yeasts since reading it in the Fermentis Tips & Trick doc (attached).

On a side note I do not rehydrate dried apple, apricots, sultanas or other varieties of fruit.  

Cheers, Mat. 

View attachment Tips_Tricks.pdf


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## razz (2/3/11)

Excellent find Mat. Puts paid to the myth of not rehydrating dry yeast in wort.


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## jlm (2/3/11)

I thought I read somewhere that when using dried yeasts you don't need to aerate but there you go, will be aerating now.


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## Rurik (2/3/11)

Paul H said:


> You can't make great beer using dry yeast.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul




I got a HC and a first in Style using dry yeast. You have to treat it right.


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## tfxm (2/3/11)

A lot of micro's over here in the UK are using dry yeast; some just sprinkling in when transferring into fermenters. They are making beers that people are going crazy over, can't make enough to sell - a notable one is even mixing US05 & Nottingham when pitching, crazy. Dry yeast might not flocculate that well (given the strain) but almost all micros are fining when racking to cask - crystal clear pint!


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## Wolfy (2/3/11)

matr said:


> On a side note I do not rehydrate dried apple, apricots, sultanas or other varieties of fruit.


To quote the doc you attached: "_Yeasts are living organisms_" ... apple, apricots, sultanas and other varieties of fruit are for eating and as such are not live little critters that you need to encourage, care for and looked after so they ferment your beer well.


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## matr (3/3/11)

Wolfy said:


> To quote the doc you attached: "_Yeasts are living organisms_" ... apple, apricots, sultanas and other varieties of fruit are for eating and as such are not live little critters that you need to encourage, care for and looked after so they ferment your beer well.



Umm.. I was just being a clown. I do understand the difference between yeast and fruit... Could bring a bit of fun though bobbing for apples in a fermenter!!

Sorry if you took it as a serious point and in direct relation to the yeast topic.. More of these next time.. :blink: :huh:   Unless I can find the "Asshat comment" font..

Cheers, Mat.


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## malt_shovel (3/3/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> My 2c...
> 
> I think its not a Dry vs Liquid yeast issue. I think it has more to do with pitching rates and lag time. The fact that dried yeast has to re-hydrate in the sugary wort and then get going vs liquids up-and-go I think plays a bigger part.
> 
> I've made some good beers with both liquid and dry. I find if you hydrate the dry in some boiled and cooled water (I just use water that's left over in the tea kettle), it makes dry comparable to liquid.




Agree with the pitching rate viewpoint.

My last beer I made a starter with the US-05 as it was fairly old (though still in a fridge), and I wanted to get decent viabile numbers up prior to pitching into the APA wort I had made. I think it worked very well, with a nice clean, hop forward flavour in the beer as I was expecting. 

I think the most important aspect of brewing is pitching enough yeast. I am of the opinion that the lack of reliable testing to understand how much viable yeast we are pitching at the homebrew level means that people apportion blame of off tastes, or requirement to have 1 week primary, 2 week secondary, 3 weeks bottle condition (the motto for some american forums) is due to insufficient yeast pitching. 

For your next few brews, take what you would normally pitch for your yeast, and double it and see if you taste an improvement in your beers. Commercial breweries pitch straight after primary a far higher rate than we do, and this is not just for reducing lag times (an active starter will give you a quick start to primary ferment), but also for getting a "clean" flavour straight after primary is complete.

Rant over and sorry to take it off topic. Dry, liquid, doesn't matter, just pitch the right amount.

1318 is my yeast of choice.. top cropping is too easy to preserve top quality ale yeast.

Cheers

:icon_chickcheers:


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## bear09 (3/3/11)

jlm said:


> I thought I read somewhere that when using dried yeasts you don't need to aerate but there you go, will be aerating now.



I think you may be mistaken between aerate and rehydrate. All yeasts need oxygen for their primary growth stage. Liquid yeasts do not need to be rehydrated because they are already liquid.

Cheers.


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## chadjaja (3/3/11)

After switching to liquid yeasts a few years ago and making my stir plate I've used maybe two dry yeasts in that time. For the range liquid yeasts just can't be beat and by harvesting them and stepping up in starters they work out cheaper to use too imo.


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## Ross (3/3/11)

> (jlm @ Mar 2 2011, 08:36 PM)
> I thought I read somewhere that when using dried yeasts you don't need to aerate but there you go, will be aerating now.






bear09 said:


> I think you may be mistaken between aerate and rehydrate. All yeasts need oxygen for their primary growth stage. Liquid yeasts do not need to be rehydrated because they are already liquid.
> 
> Cheers.




No, Jlm is correct, dried yeast has enough oxygen stored in its make up that it does not require additional aerating - That said, it won't do it any harm either.

Cheers Ross


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## Ross (3/3/11)

For the record, I obviously have access to all the liquid yeasts I could want, but I still use dried when their is one that gives the character I'm after.

I've been talking to a very senior brewer who has strong contacts within the Belgian beer industry & he informs me that dried WB-06 is becoming very popular there (including trappist breweries) for a multitude of beer styles.


cheers Ross


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## fraser_john (3/3/11)

Ross said:


> For the record, I obviously have access to all the liquid yeasts I could want, but I still use dried when their is one that gives the character I'm after.
> 
> I've been talking to a very senior brewer who has strong contacts within the Belgian beer industry & he informs me that dried WB-06 is becoming very popular there (including trappist breweries) for a multitude of beer styles.
> 
> ...



I have just brewed a dark belgian strong ale using your dry Belgian ale yeast Ross, it turned out pretty nice, if a little high in gravity with a rich silky mouth feel. Overall happy but next time I will have to watch the temperature, it leapt to 28c overnight and was spewing CO2 out the airlock the bubbles almost didnt form!

1.100 SG, 1.029 FG. Going to rack it onto a saison yeast cake to bring it down a few more points.


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## goomboogo (3/3/11)

fraser_john said:


> I have just brewed a dark belgian strong ale using your dry Belgian ale yeast Ross, it turned out pretty nice, if a little high in gravity with a rich silky mouth feel. Overall happy but next time I will have to watch the temperature, it leapt to 28c overnight and was spewing CO2 out the airlock the bubbles almost didnt form!
> 
> 1.100 SG, 1.029 FG. Going to rack it onto a saison yeast cake to bring it down a few more points.



OT: fraser_john, at that gravity and temperature, did you find the yeast produced a quite spicy/peppery flavour? I've used it in beers pale in colour and thought a darker beer may be a better option with this yeast.


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## speedie (5/3/11)

WTF


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## haysie (5/3/11)

speedie said:


> WTF




wats wrong fella?


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## rotten (5/3/11)

A "please explain" maybe whats needed speedie


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## speedie (5/3/11)

how can i prerach to the non believer
it makes no differance what i post as can be percieved from other posts 
if you all seem to adhere to liquid inoculation so be it
please do us all a justice and check who=s beer won medals using pisshand powered lowerly yeast
you may be totaly :lol: freraking suprised


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## Aus_Rider_22 (5/3/11)

speedie said:


> how can i prerach to the non believer
> it makes no differance what i post as can be percieved from other posts
> if you all seem to adhere to liquid inoculation so be it
> please do us all a justice and check who=s beer won medals using pisshand powered lowerly yeast
> you may be totaly :lol: freraking suprised



lol, are you going to try and turn this into a "dry yeast won comps, so it's clearly awesome" thread?

I've used both and they both have their place.


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## rotten (5/3/11)

WTF, please explain speedie.

Start a thread yourself and ask that very question. Maybe you will be the one who is surpised. Or read this thresd in it's entirety, no-one has bagged either method from memory.


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## speedie (5/3/11)

without pointing fingers the likes of boss ( or any other bussiness provider )has more to gain by the sale of a smack pack than piss hand poorly rated dried yeast
just ask mr chris white


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## haysie (5/3/11)

Ross said:


> For the record, I obviously have access to all the liquid yeasts I could want, but I still use dried when their is one that gives the character I'm after.
> 
> I've been talking to a very senior brewer who has strong contacts within the Belgian beer industry & he informs me that dried WB-06 is becoming very popular there (including trappist breweries) for a multitude of beer styles.
> 
> ...



I have used the wb-06 a few times and many times different liquid yeasts to try produce a good weizen, sometimes I do sometimes I dont with liquid, the few times I used 06 it was outstanding.
:icon_offtopic: 
These dry yeasts are becoming very expensive though at around $6-7 a packet, no slanting no splitting doesnt seem to make much sense when one can split a liquid and have 1st gen yeast over and over again, for a dry one has to run the risk of slurrying.


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## Wolfy (5/3/11)

speedie said:


> without pointing fingers the likes of boss ( or any other bussiness provider )has more to gain by the sale of a smack pack than piss hand poorly rated dried yeast
> just ask mr chris white


The only money I've given to Mr Chris White is is well deserved royalties for co-authoring a very useful book, and since he's also provided much useful information on various pod-casts and other freely available sources on the Internet I do not begrudge him that money at all.
I also stand behind what I said earlier in this thread: BOTH dry and wet yeasts have their place and appropriate usages, to simply dismiss or disregard one or the other is being shortsighted.



haysie said:


> These dry yeasts are becoming very expensive though at around $6-7 a packet, no slanting no splitting doesnt seem to make much sense when one can split a liquid and have 1st gen yeast over and over again, for a dry one has to run the risk of slurrying.


Most people don't consider a starter with dry yeast because in the past it's been relatively inexpensive, but it might be in interesting exercise to use only 1/4 of a dry yeast pack and step up a starter as one would do with a liquid yeast.


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## stux (5/3/11)

speedie said:


> this is how brew day unfolds
> mash in get things organised for rests
> rehydrate in cooled boiled water the correct amount of yeast
> wait for activity while mashing
> ...



You're making your starter from unboiled wort? Ie full of grain based bacteria and wild yeasts?


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## bconnery (5/3/11)

Stux said:


> You're making your starter from unboiled wort? Ie full of grain based bacteria and wild yeasts?


No he's talking about rehydrating dried yeasts.


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## beerdrinkingbob (5/3/11)

just my 2c.

I used dried yeast all the time and am happy with most of my results. Liquids give you more options which is great to as others have mentioned.

Question: does anyone make a 1.5 litre starter from dried yeast and pore of two lots of 250ml into bottles and pitch the rest? good way to save coin and better than using fermenter slurry.


PS lets not take this thread to speedie VS the world


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## Jazzafish (5/3/11)

Yeast is awesome, keep it happy and it will keep you happy. 



> Hey All,
> 
> Have been brewing for a few years now and am addicted beyond belief. I am an AG brewer with a 3 tier setup. Nothing crazy.
> 
> ...



Now to put forward my observations and results from my own brewing experience. You can make great beer from fresh yeast weather it is dry or not. Aside from the obvious, there are more strains available in liquid format, so more choice in flavour with liquid. But in a side by side comparison between similar strains there is little difference. The important thing is to pay attention to your pitching rate and yeast health. I have a lot of success using the pitching rate calculator on Mr Malty. 

To use dry yeast successfully, I find you need to condition the dry yeast to suit your brew. Hydrating is very important, most of the material in the packet contains suitable yeast but there is also yeast that is dead or unhealthy from the dehydrating process. There are also nutrients in the packet, so it makes sense to dehydrate the dried yeast before pitching. The yeast will have better access to the nutrients in a smaller volume of liquid. They will absorb the nutrients and froth up to tell you they are keen to ferment your beer. When you sprinkle on the top, the dead or unhealthy yeast drop to the bottom along with some of the nutrients. The healthy yeast that remains have to work hard to ferment your wort, and as a result you under pitch your beer. 

Pitching rate is often the difference in a good and great beer.


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## Jazzafish (5/3/11)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> just my 2c.
> 
> I used dried yeast all the time and am happy with most of my results. Liquids give you more options which is great to as others have mentioned.
> 
> ...



Some people poo poo this as there is a small contamination chance in dried yeast due to the dehydration process. But there are plenty of commercial breweries out there that maintain yeast that were originally dry yeast and are very successful and happy with the beer. So why not do it yourself?

Personally I would rinse the slurry and divide that, but do what works for you. Don't fix something that isn't broken.


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## goomboogo (5/3/11)

Jazzafish said:


> Some people poo poo this as there is a small contamination chance in dried yeast due to the dehydration process. But there are plenty of commercial breweries out there that maintain yeast that were originally dry yeast and are very successful and happy with the beer. So why not do it yourself?
> 
> Personally I would rinse the slurry and divide that, but do what works for you. Don't fix something that isn't broken.


I could be wrong but I assumed such breweries would utilise an acid wash as part of their yeast management program.


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## goomboogo (5/3/11)

bconnery said:


> No he's talking about rehydrating dried yeasts.



But he does say, "add some cooled wort from run off while sparging". This step comes after, "rehydrate in cooled boiled water the correct amount of yeast". It's not clear whether the wort is being boiled prior to adding it to the rehydrated yeast. If it isn't being boiled then I agree with Stux that it is poor practice.


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## stux (5/3/11)

bconnery said:


> No he's talking about rehydrating dried yeasts.



"add some cooled wort from run off while sparging"

sounds like he's adding some unpasteurized wort to the rehydrated yeast so that it can get going while he's doing the boil/cool


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## bconnery (5/3/11)

Stux said:


> "add some cooled wort from run off while sparging"
> 
> sounds like he's adding some unpasteurized wort to the rehydrated yeast so that it can get going while he's doing the boil/cool


It's true, he does say that, which isn't necessarily a good idea. 
But you said: 


Stux said:


> You're making your starter from unboiled wort? Ie full of grain based bacteria and wild yeasts?


so I thought you were confused about what he was doing, as in rehydrating, mainly due to his interesting sentence structure, as opposed to questioning his overall method...

Anyways, just to throw in my 0.00000002 (reduced because it's exactly the same as what many have said) I use both. I like the convenience of dry and the range of liquid. I think you can make great beer with dried yeast and I've tasted many commercial and homebrews that bear up this opinion.


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## browndog (5/3/11)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> just my 2c.
> 
> I used dried yeast all the time and am happy with most of my results. Liquids give you more options which is great to as others have mentioned.
> 
> ...




Why is it better than using fermenter slurry?


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## speedie (5/3/11)

as stated i do use unboiled wort for promoting activty and have never had any problems at all
that cooled wort was up to 80 degrees 
you would have more potential infection from poor yeast handling than from cooled sparged wort


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## Brad Churchill (5/3/11)

I supose at the end of the day the best way to solve the puzzle of dry versus liquid is experimentation.
Don't take anyone else's word on the matter.

Try dry yeast.

Try liquid yeast.

Rehydrate dry yeast.

Make sure your pitching rate is right as other's have mentioned, and if you split your brew three ways (if you can be arsed but this is the kind of experimenting I like to do) then you can pitch all of the above into the same brew split into equal portions in seperate fermenters.

This way every step of the process is the same except for the yeast used.

You can then decide for yourself which yeast yields the best results for the beer you are making.

Hope that made sense. Have been enjoying a few brews :icon_drunk: 

Cheers

Brad


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## rude (6/3/11)

Well once I discovered liquid I was stoked & have used it heaps still will

Thought I'de never go back to dried but I have cause there are more options there now.

Im getting lazy & I have a bit of coin, so if say, Im doing an APA 25 litres I'll just pitch 2 packets of dried us 05 no rehydrating here.

Lazy *uck I know but I want to make the best beer I can & Im under the pump so brewing is getting hard at the moment

Am I over pitching ????? doubt it but thought Ide throw it out there


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## Jazzafish (6/3/11)

goomboogo said:


> I could be wrong but I assumed such breweries would utilise an acid wash as part of their yeast management program.



You missed my point... the dehydrating process allows for a contamination possibility. Acid washing cannot solve this.


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## Jazzafish (6/3/11)

Brad C said:


> I supose at the end of the day the best way to solve the puzzle of dry versus liquid is experimentation.
> Don't take anyone else's word on the matter.
> 
> Try dry yeast.
> ...




Absolutely,

split the same batch, like a blonde ale. Use WLP001, WY1056 and US05.

Watch the lag times, fermentation time, final attenuation, clarity/flocculation and the important taste test. Then repeat with the second and third generations to see how durable they are.


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## goomboogo (6/3/11)

Jazzafish said:


> You missed my point... the dehydrating process allows for a contamination possibility. Acid washing cannot solve this.



You are correct. I missed your point. I thought you were talking about subsequent batches.


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## Dylo (7/3/11)

Ive used many dry yeasts and dabbled with liquids. Havent had much luck with the liquids unfortunately, ending up with a few dead viles from a group buy, (wouldnt even take with starters). Also have had a couple of mates that experience trouble with very slow (dead) smack packs. This is my only for reason for sticking with the dried yeasts for now. I have turned out some cracking brews with them and cant complain as they are pretty much fool proof.

I always re-hydrate them. This may help me out, but without side by side brews its hard to tell. I actually just did a coopers style PA and wanted to use some re-pitched US05 slurry and see if i could get it to give me some of the esters that the coopers yeast produces. I washed it and purposly under-pitched (using the pitching rate calculator mentioned above) and fermented warm to see what US05 can do if you stress it. It came out really well. Not exactly the coopers twang but managed to transform the yeast into something its not usually associated with.

So i guess it comes down to your personal preference, your brewing ability and mainly what you want from the yeast.

Cheers,
Dylo


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## bear09 (7/3/11)

After 4 pages and a heap of interesting replies I think I have the answers to my questions. Bloody excellent people.


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## Nick JD (7/3/11)

Dylo said:


> Ive used many dry yeasts and dabbled with liquids. Havent had much luck with the liquids unfortunately, ending up with a few dead viles from a group buy, (wouldnt even take with starters). Also have had a couple of mates that experience trouble with very slow (dead) smack packs. This is my only for reason for sticking with the dried yeasts for now. I have turned out some cracking brews with them and cant complain as they are pretty much fool proof.



I'm a big dry yeast user, but;

There are a lot of styles ya just can't brew without the liquid yeasts. I've got a Hoegaarden Clone going at the moment that just can't be done without 3944. The wheatbeer smackpacks swell like dead cows and then spend the next three days trying to climb out of the fermenter.

But some of the Wyeast Lagers are tortoises - and some peoplethink they've smacked the pack, but they haven't - and then they think they have dead yeast. I've never had a failed Wyeast.

For some strains their just ain't anything better than Wyeast.

I get at least 6, 18-19L batches from a pack, so the cost is negligible.


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