# Bottle from 1958 harvestable?



## eldertaco (12/7/15)

I've been given a couple of bottles of Victoria Brewery Bitter Ale. Best I can tell they're from 1958 going by the labels. From what I understand it's VB from before they switched to lager yeast.

The bottles have plenty of sediment in the bottom, I'm wondering if it's worth me having a crack at harvesting some.


----------



## Pogierob (12/7/15)

Please see link for my assumption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shs7VQhVvxA


----------



## MastersBrewery (12/7/15)

Labs have resurrected yeast centuries old, some found at the bottom of the ocean, some of the methods we use for counting, culturing and slanting would have been used, you could definitely have a good old swing at it. Success will come down to what yeast is still alive, and balance of strains with in the culture (maybe not a single strain yeast), and separation of unwanted cultures (fungi/infections)


----------



## Mr. No-Tip (12/7/15)

Id be just as interested in a taste report and some photos for AHB as bottle culture!


----------



## GalBrew (12/7/15)

Unfortunately you will have no idea if your are successful (from a taste perspective). But I also would be curious if you gave it a crack.


----------



## Feldon (12/7/15)

Maybe get in contact with CUB. Their lab people might be interested in the old yeast strains they once used, and would be more geared up to do a pro job.


----------



## Spiesy (13/7/15)

GalBrew said:


> Unfortunately you will have no idea if your are successful (from a taste perspective). But I also would be curious if you gave it a crack.


Wouldn't it be pretty easy to see if you're successful? Make a small starter, if it looks like it begins fermentation (foam, CO2, lighter wort), then you're off and running. Keep stepping up until you get a pitchable size, and by all means give it a sniff and taste before pitching.


----------



## Yob (13/7/15)

You'd really want to streak a plate and try to find a viable colony.

Single cell culture is very tricky and time consuming, you'd also need to start at a very low gravity, 1.020 max and maybe 10ml > 100ml before even raising gravity.


----------



## Mardoo (13/7/15)

Feldon said:


> Maybe get in contact with CUB. Their lab people might be interested in the old yeast strains they once used, and would be more geared up to do a pro job.


I think Feldon has a good point. Contact CUB's lab folks and ask if they're interested in trying to culture up, with the proviso that you get a viable culture for yourself if they're successful.


----------



## Danscraftbeer (13/7/15)

Would these bottles be a collectors item and be more valuable unopened?


----------



## eldertaco (13/7/15)

Wow, really didn't expect such a huge response from this. I guess even if they are "all dead Dave" it could be worth having a go. I've really got no idea where I'd start looking to make contact with people at CUB who might be interested, but I would have thought they'd already have the yeast in the fridge from before they switched, or at least a few old bottles they would be able to culture from if they were so inclined? Anybody got any contacts at CUB in that regard?

I'm definitely planning to open one and have a taste, take a few photos etc. I guess I'll wait until I've built my TASP before I do so.

I sort of agree about them being possible collectors items but I've got two bottles and one of them doesn't have it's label (so it might not even be the same beer, although the bottles themselves look identical and came from the same place) so I can't really see too much harm in opening it to have a taste.


----------



## MastersBrewery (13/7/15)

If your considering re culturing I would keep temps as stable as possible prior to sampling, you don't want to shock the yeast.


----------



## GalBrew (13/7/15)

Spiesy said:


> Wouldn't it be pretty easy to see if you're successful? Make a small starter, if it looks like it begins fermentation (foam, CO2, lighter wort), then you're off and running. Keep stepping up until you get a pitchable size, and by all means give it a sniff and taste before pitching.


Yes very easy, but as I said you will have no idea if the flavour will be similar. Who knows what has happened to the yeast over the decades and what impact that will have on its flavour profile.


----------



## wereprawn (13/7/15)

Before you bother trying to grow the bottle yeast ,you should try to find out which yeast they used. It may be a yeast which is still produced by a yeast company and quite easy to obtain .


----------



## hirschb (14/7/15)

50+ years is a long, long, long time to have viable yeast cells. I do not think you could do this at home. You'll need to take this to a proper lab and hope you get lucky.



wereprawn said:


> Before you bother trying to grow the bottle yeast ,you should try to find out which yeast they used. It may be a yeast which is still produced by a yeast company and quite easy to obtain .


Due to genetic drift, it is likely that this yeast will differ from currently available cultures. That being said, I think your comment is on point. Unless one has reason to think that this yeast is going to be special, why put the time/money/effort into culturing it?


----------



## eldertaco (14/7/15)

hirschb said:


> 50+ years is a long, long, long time to have viable yeast cells. I do not think you could do this at home. You'll need to take this to a proper lab and hope you get lucky.
> 
> 
> Due to genetic drift, it is likely that this yeast will differ from currently available cultures. That being said, I think your comment is on point. Unless one has reason to think that this yeast is going to be special, why put the time/money/effort into culturing it?


Maybe it's the hacker mentality in me saying it's less of a why and more of a why not? Then again, like you say there's probably nothing special about it and even more worse so there may be nothing good about it!


----------



## eldertaco (30/7/15)

Just a quick update on this. Decided to have a crack at something a bit easier to start with, so I picked up a couple of bottles of Rogue Hazelnut Brown to attempt to get some Pacman yeast going.

Made up about 150ml of 1.020 in a 300ml jar and pitched the dregs of the two bottles into that with a tiny amount of yeast nutrient, tried to keep it warm as best I could (no idea why I didn't think to put it in my ferment fridge), and gave it a shake in passing for about 3 days. Could hear a faint hiss with my ear up to the jar after swirling so all seemed to be going ok and seemed to get a slight amount of sediment settling out in the bottom so on to the next step.

Sat it in the fridge overnight and decanted off as much of the beer as possible, let it come back to room temp and pitched it into about 500-600ml of 1.030 wort in my flask along with about an eighth of a teaspoon of nutrient, covered it with foil and let it go on the stirplate for a couple of days. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of activity really, but I let it go for a couple of days (still with no temp control so would have got cold at night) and there seemed to be more sediment at the end of that so again I chilled it and decanted off as much beer as I could before the next step.

Next I made up 1.6L of 1.040 wort, added about a quarter of a teaspoon of nutrient and put that down on the sediment in the flask, stuck it on the stirplate but this time in the ferment fridge. Looked OK, sediment seemed to be increasing, and then by about the 18 hour mark it had a night big foamy krausen formed in the flask. Pretty stoked it seems to have worked! :kooi:

Anyway back to the ancient bottle, I reckon I'll have a bit more of a go with a few harvesting a few other bottles first to get myself used to it. Also ordered some cheap petri dishes and if I find time I might even have a go at plate culturing too. Maybe a bit too ambitious but why the hell not I say.


----------



## super_simian (30/7/15)

hirschb said:


> 50+ years is a long, long, long time to have viable yeast cells. I do not think you could do this at home. You'll need to take this to a proper lab and hope you get lucky.


I agree with this bit, if not the rest. Take it to a lab, it's a valuable window into Aussie brewing history - do it for Aus brew history! And make sure any ensuing yeast is open source too.


----------



## butisitart (30/7/15)

me born in 1958, and my yeast's been worrth saving. in fact, i still save it, except for when i waste it. so don't listen to anybody who says 1958 yeast is old and dead. propogate like zombie things and return the planet to its former glory
by the way - i see my avatar has been upgraded from krausen to 'great head'. i mentioned this to my gay neighbour and he just rolled her eyes and walked off. things you discuss when you're putting the wheelie bins out.


----------



## eldertaco (31/7/15)

super_simian said:


> Take it to a lab


Any suggestions for a lab in Melbourne and ball park figures of what the price would be? I can't imagine it'd be cheap? Will probably try getting in touch with CUB but I doubt they'll be interested tbh.


----------



## jyo (31/7/15)

If you're worried about having a go, why not hit one of the University Microbiology departments up and see if there are a couple of students who would like something to do?


----------



## Brew Forky (31/7/15)

All the information how to do it is on youtube. I learned a shit load about yeast, including lab work when stuck at home with the flu recently. It didn't look like rocket surgery.

You've already ordered the petri dishes. Got a Microscope?


----------



## Danscraftbeer (1/8/15)

Save it as a collectors item. If it is in recocnisable condition. Dont open it! 
There are so many good yeasts to play with anyway.
Give us all a picture of it if you can please.


----------



## eldertaco (3/8/15)

I've got two bottles, one is missing it's label (the one I'm going to open obviously). The other one looks like this.


----------



## Mardoo (3/8/15)

You could probably sell tickets to a tasting...


----------

