# Real Apple Cider



## Verbyla (5/8/09)

Having just obtained a juicer I've been reading up about making apple cider from real apples. I've realised that there's only bits and pieces of information scattered throughout the non-beer section and thought it would be a good idea to dedicate this particular thread to the subject. 

Here's a list of questions I've been able to think up:

Which apples that are readily available to the public work best and in what ratio should they be used?

If making an apple and pear cider roughly what ratio should the apple to pear juice be at?

If a person is unable to use crab apples are there any other options such as different varieties of apples or chemicals that can be used as a substitute in order to increase the level of tannins?

What's the best way to juice the apples? Core removed? Skinned? Just throw the entire fruit in the juicer?

After juicing what options are there to help extract juice still present in the pulp sediment that settles or can it all be thrown in the fermenter? 

What's options are there to help eliminate wild yeast and other bacteria from the juice and what are the pro's and con's?

What yeast works the best in your own opinion? Ale yeast, cider yeast, wine yeast or even mead yeast?

Any other tips on the subject?

If anyone else has any questions please feel free to contribute!

Cheers,
Tom


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## Mercs Own (5/8/09)

Verbyla said:


> Having just obtained a juicer I've been reading up about making apple cider from real apples. I've realised that there's only bits and pieces of information scattered throughout the non-beer section and thought it would be a good idea to dedicate this particular thread to the subject.
> 
> Here's a list of questions I've been able to think up:
> 
> ...



Tim did you look through all the posts on here regarding cider? Tips from a pro cider maker from Thirstyboy was full of some good advice and there are at least another 12 or so posts all about cider, yeast, apples etc I am thinking about making some cider and have been having a look through some of these posts. If you havent looked through them all then it would be a good idea and I am sure your questions will be answered and no doubt replaced by others that may not have already been covered. Cheers


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## bakkerman (5/8/09)

Hi Tom,

I made 23 liters of cider using a juicer, and I won't do it again.

I chewed though 5 boxes of apples (pink lady, gala and granny smith). The juicer is just not built to cope with that volume (unless you got a professional one).
Mine was smoking after 15 minutes, and had to cool down all the time which made it a long day.

The juice contains a hell of a lot of pulp that eventually floats to the top of the fermenter. I scooped as much of as I could, but as it settles more comes up. After i pitched the yeast i saw no foaming, the pulp was just blubbing like some volcanic mud pit. 

As the pulp stays on top, it's hard to bottle without getting any in the bottle, so hope you don't mind cloudy cider!
I juiced them whole or quartered, whatever it took to get them through the shoot.

Next time i use whole apples to make cider I'm looking for a press to avoid the pulp monster.


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## Airgead (5/8/09)

I juiced 10kg of Granny Smiths and a big bucket of crab apples through my juicer. it took a while but did a pretty good job. The pulp is a problem. You do get a lot of pulp into the fermenter but it does eventually drop clear. Some pectic enzyme seems to help.

varieties is hard - it depends on what you like. My missus likes a cider fairly dry and a bit tart so the mix of commercial juice, granny smiths (acid) and crabs (acid and tanin) worked really well. Some people like a more floral/fruity cider so some of the table apples would work best (gravenstein work really well).

Cheers
Dave


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## Verbyla (5/8/09)

Yeah I'm well aware of the fact that there's information out there on many of the questions I've asked. One of the main purposes of starting the thread was to bring the information together, even if its just a quote, so that it'd be easier to find for people reading up on juicing their own apples to make cider in future. Most of the cider talk has been on simple store bought juice and doesn't go into depth on issues that can come about went juicing your own apples. I guess i was also hoping for a bit of a template to emerge on exactly what mix of apples to use and the best step by step approach for a first timer so that i could have a bit of confidence about what I'll be doing. 

Bakkerman, did you use any pectin to help get rid of the pulp. I did a bit of an experiment with a bunch of apples and found that there was a large amount of pulp aswell, i was thinking that it was maybe due to the fact that i'm using a pretty average juicer. I'm not to fussed about the pulp as long as it doesn't effect the flavour but if I've got the choice I'll do my best to get rid of it. How did it taste after you'd bottled it???


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## manticle (6/8/09)

I've allowed my juice to clarify over several days then racked through the tap. The resulting brew is usually quite clear. I've used a small kitchen juicer and juiced around 15 kg of apples to make a half batch mixed with juice etc. I removed the stickers and cores/seeds, left the skin on. It's a bit of work but so is cracking grain and mashing.

I have used and would use again a blend of flavours - grannies, pink ladies, fuji, yellow, jonothan and red. I've also played around with throwing in a few Nashi pears and i think the addition of ya pears would be good. No idea about proportion of pear to apple but I just try and use a reasonably even proportion of apple types. That's dependent a little on price though.

I had meant to try a full volume a week or so ago but I'll have to wait until this weekend.


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## Fents (6/8/09)

go to a winery or a brewery where they make cider and buy some proper unfermented cider juice. take it home and ferment it with any yeast you choose. expensive but well worth it for the lack of hassles imo..


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## Airgead (6/8/09)

manticle said:


> I've allowed my juice to clarify over several days then racked through the tap. The resulting brew is usually quite clear. I



That's what I will do next time. Chill it for a few days to let it settle then rack from the top or bottom (depending on whether the pulp is floating or sinking).

Cheers
Dave


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## sinkas (6/8/09)

Verbyla said:


> Yeah I'm well aware of the fact that there's information out there on many of the questions I've asked. One of the main purposes of starting the thread was to bring the information together, even if its just a quote, so that it'd be easier to find for people reading up on juicing their own apples to make cider in future. Most of the cider talk has been on simple store bought juice and doesn't go into depth on issues that can come about went juicing your own apples. I guess i was also hoping for a bit of a template to emerge on exactly what mix of apples to use and the best step by step approach for a first timer so that i could have a bit of confidence about what I'll be doing.
> 
> Bakkerman, did you use any pectin to help get rid of the pulp. I did a bit of an experiment with a bunch of apples and found that there was a large amount of pulp aswell, i was thinking that it was maybe due to the fact that i'm using a pretty average juicer. I'm not to fussed about the pulp as long as it doesn't effect the flavour but if I've got the choice I'll do my best to get rid of it. How did it taste after you'd bottled it???




getting other people to do the research for you, what a lazy douche


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## tdh (6/8/09)

Try one of these if you want to core your apples and pears first.
I've got a Panasonic juicer and coring/cutting speeds up the process. Great unbreakable machine too.

tdh


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## Airgead (6/8/09)

tdh said:


> Try one of these if you want to core your apples and pears first.
> I've got a Panasonic juicer and coring/cutting speeds up the process. Great unbreakable machine too.
> 
> tdh



Nifty gadget. Not sure it would work for my crab apples though...

I just chucked them through stems, skins, seeds and all. Did the same with the granny smiths as well (couldn't be arsed coring 10kg of apples). Seems to work OK. My juicer is one of the screw press types and it seems to handle the cores pretty well.

Cheers
Dave


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## tdh (6/8/09)

The gadget very quickly slices them in to hopper sized slices. Chuck the core in as well if you like. Will work for crabs as well.

tdh


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## Airgead (6/8/09)

tdh said:


> The gadget very quickly slices them in to hopper sized slices. Chuck the core in as well if you like. Will work for crabs as well.
> 
> tdh



I'll probably pick one up for next time. The slicing would be handy. I just remembered how much my hands hurt after slicing up that big box of grannies. I think my crab apples would fit through the core hole without touching the sides though...

Cheers
Dave


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## tdh (6/8/09)

Still use it for rapid slicing though. Just slam it over the top of your apple.

tdh


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## Wortgames (6/8/09)

I've got some video from the 70's of a legendary English gent by the name of Jack Hargreaves making cider the way it had been done for generations with a bunch of his mates. Everyone in the village brings their apples and helps out, and goes home with a barrel of juice.

"Half cookers, half eaters" was the recipe. Crush roughly then shovel into a hessian sheet laid into a simple wooden frame. When the frame is filled, fold into a parcel, shift the frame up and repeat with a new sheet of hessian. When you've run out of apples or you're up to the top of the press start turning the screws / pumping the jack / piling on the weight and watch all the lovely golden juice ooze out from the hessian. Run the juice into a barrel, cork it loosely and let it ferment naturally.

There was no stainless and no sanitation. The yeasts resident in the oak frames, the hessian sheets and on the apples themselves (especially the fallen ones that were already beginning to ferment) were obviously the preferred method, but if you want to use your own I'd avoid using any wine yeasts as it'll probably turn out too dry. Go for a low attn ale yeast (or maybe even a bread yeast?)


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## beer slayer (6/8/09)

Verbyla
try this link. http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Page-2
I just happened to be listening to this the other day. Was very interesting!!

Cheers 
BS


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## pdilley (6/8/09)

I think I have the same Gents in England but this time its on the River Cottage DVDs.

Collecting apples, then onto layers of hessian bags piled on top of each other into a layered sandwich and down with the old wooden turn screw and press plate.

Then while pissed on hard cider its who can win the game of old wooden skittles 



I only have two varieties of apple trees and a crab apple tree so I'm pushing it for nice mix. One other rule of thumb was 6 varieties of apples. In a 1/3 to 2/3 ratio. You make it 1/3 tart varieties to 2/3 sweet for sweet cider and reverse it to 2/3 tart to 1/3 sweet for a drier cider.

Just today I was thinking about this and hessian bags at work! I was lamenting the fact that bulk malted grain does not come in hessian sacks but in plastic  Otherwise what a great opportunity to have at it and start work on your home made cider press!


For cider DIY projects I have seen the converted electric sink disposal unit that dumps chopped apples into a bucket waiting below to speed things up.


Store bought juice is just a quick and dirty alternative to make a cider for city folks thats better than kits but still needs some work to get it tasting really good. But first we need to get people started making ciders to get them to want to make great ciders with the extra aging involved hence the store juice posts.

Once I'm off my lazy duff I'll do the intermediate post. Kicking it up a notch to intermediate with malt and hop additions. That could be the kit and bits equivalent for ciders where the store juice only would be the K&K equivalent in difficulty level.

Once their on to intermediate you know they are in it enough to do the long haul cider brewing recipes.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## komodo (6/8/09)

LOL I watched that episode about 2 weeks ago. Me and the minister of war and finance were having a laugh


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## pdilley (6/8/09)

The cider lads make a comeback further on in an episode where the contest hadn't been considered finalised 

More cider and portable mini skittles on the way!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Wortgames (6/8/09)

It's kinda funny that this subject has come up just now. This last weekend I supplied a few beers in my converted chest freezer for the FIL's 60th.

Just so happens that one couple there owns a few acres of well-established, heirloom variety apple trees down Apollo Bay way I think it was. They were interested in making a decent cider from them and it sounds like they might be keen on building a press and doing it the traditional way.

So I might well have some pics and stories to share over the next year or so...


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## Wortgames (6/8/09)

:icon_offtopic: 

BTW I'm guessing that's your Shepherd in your avatar Pete? Fine looking dog.

We lost ours last year sadly, may she rest in peace (from swans, mostly)


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## manticle (6/8/09)

Airgead said:


> I just chucked them through stems, skins, seeds and all. Did the same with the granny smiths as well (couldn't be arsed coring 10kg of apples). Seems to work OK. My juicer is one of the screw press types and it seems to handle the cores pretty well.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave



My main reason for removing the seeds is to prevent that horrible bitterness from them going into the cider. I'm guessing you've had no trouble with that? Not removing the core would save a lot of work although i still have to cut the apples to fit them in the juicer.


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## pdilley (6/8/09)

WortGames said:


> We lost ours last year sadly, may she rest in peace (from swans, mostly)



 

I can not get another pet until I am out of rentals as the market is so tight in Canberra you'll end up in no pets for sure even with my situation where the owner had his own dogs on the property and yet is a strictly no pet guy with my lease :blink:

I hope to get another German Shepherd myself if my own place with enough yard which is easy if I live in country NSW outside of Canberra but difficult if in Canberra as most properties are now down to less than 500sq.m. I've seen 350sq.m. and to see them sell them labelled as decent sized blocks!

For now I have my photograph at least and I have my home brewing to console me until that happy day 



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Airgead (6/8/09)

manticle said:


> My main reason for removing the seeds is to prevent that horrible bitterness from them going into the cider. I'm guessing you've had no trouble with that? Not removing the core would save a lot of work although i still have to cut the apples to fit them in the juicer.



No trouble with bitterness at all. I suspect my juicer grinds them up and spits them out with the pulp so they don't make it into the juice. Its not an option at all for the crab apples. Not unless you had infinite patience and a really small knife...

Cheers
Dave


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## manticle (6/8/09)

I might have a crack with a couple of sacrificial apples and see if the seeds get retained whole.


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## Wortgames (6/8/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> For now I have my photograph at least


I hear you. We're considering our long-term options at the moment, one of which is moving to a community which is nestled in national park and is also a wildlife sanctuary (and therefore strictly no-dogs). It's a tough decision, I really miss my girl.

:icon_offtopic: OK everyone else, we now return you to your regular programming... :beer:


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## manticle (6/8/09)

Not to worry. Animals are special.

My folks' dog, who I knew as a puppy when I was a late teen (obviously I still know her know but don't live with her everyday anymore) is on her last legs. I would find it hard to do without a pet of one type or another (currently a cat owner). Part of the family, they are.


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