# No Hop Sock Brewing



## The King of Spain (9/11/07)

I'm tempted to do my next brew without using a hop sock.

I would run my cooled wort through a steralised sock (250 Micron) at the end to filter out both hops and break.

Hardly a world beater I know, but I would like hear from the experience of other who may have done this.

Cheers


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## troydo (9/11/07)

i never use a hop sock, i just whirl pool at the end, stir wort to create a whirl pool and then leave to sit for 5 mins when i come back all the gunk is in a pile in the middle of the kettele and i happily drain it off


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## Jye (9/11/07)

The King of Spain said:


> I would run my cooled wort through a steralised sock (250 Micron) at the end to filter out both hops and break.



Im pretty sure Tony was the first brewer to use a hop sock and he used it for this purpose. Ive done it a few times with my home made one but it clogs with break material, I dont know if this will happen with 250um.


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## crozdog (9/11/07)

Like troydo I have never used a hopsock & simply whirlpool. 

I'd be worried about your sugggested approach due to clogging (like Jye suggests) but also the additional risk of HSA (if it exists h34r: ) caused by the splashing of the wort dripping through the sock


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## PostModern (9/11/07)

I've recently taken to "brewing bareback" as well. Only when I use pellets exclusively tho. Flowers would block my pickup tube. I don't filter at all. Just boil, whirlpool (with more hops) and run into no-chill cubes. A good whirlpool and well placed pickup tube are all you need.


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## floppinab (9/11/07)

PostModern said:


> I've recently taken to "brewing bareback" as well. Only when I use pellets exclusively tho. Flowers would block my pickup tube. I don't filter at all. Just boil, whirlpool (with more hops) and run into no-chill cubes. A good whirlpool and well placed pickup tube are all you need.



When you say well placed PoMo where exactly would that be. I recently fitted a pickup tube to my very wide kettle mainly because the tap was a long way off the bottom of the kettle and I had to tilt the kettle a long way to get that last 4 or 5 litres out. The copper tube does a U from the outlet of the tap and I've cut the end of the tube flat so it sits snugly against the bottom of the kettle. Will that go OK you reckon as I have not yet tried it out (maybe this weekend)????


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## sluggerdog (9/11/07)

I used to use a hop sock but didn't like it so I don't use one anymore.

I only use pellets, if I use plugs/flowers I would probably use it again.


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## troydo (9/11/07)

just need pickup tube near the edge.

i used flowers last time., i had only previously used pellets and a few shot into the no chill cube, but i just poured it through a kitchen strainer into the fermenter the next day and it caught it all, prob help aeration too


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## The King of Spain (9/11/07)

Thanks guys. One last question, do you find that you leave more wort behind? I'm used to squeezing the hop bag out the end of the boil.

Cheers


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## Adzmax (9/11/07)

Why do you not want to use a hop sock out of curiosity? Cleaning or are you looking for better hop utilization?


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## sathid (9/11/07)

I poured my wort through a sanitized stainless steel sieve with my last brew. Did take a little while to filter through the 60g or so of hop pellets, and the resulting beer was a little hazy (probably due to dry hopping tho)

I sort of had the impression this was normal practice?

Will be going the hop-sock route for convenience next time.


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## Pumpy (9/11/07)

The King of Spain said:


> I'm tempted to do my next brew without using a hop sock.
> 
> I would run my cooled wort through a steralised sock (250 Micron) at the end to filter out both hops and break.
> 
> ...






Go for it KOS

I have found with the NC method I dont really bother what goes into the fermenter because I have found is all good and I find no noticble difference to the beer IMO.

Dont bother with it anymore. 

Pumpy


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## The King of Spain (9/11/07)

Adzmax said:


> Why do you not want to use a hop sock out of curiosity? Cleaning or are you looking for better hop utilization?



Hop utilisation, and to my way of thinking I will get a better break. I've noticed that the volume within the sock is quarantined from the rolling boil action which is needed for a good break.

Plus its simpler


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## PostModern (9/11/07)

floppinab said:


> When you say well placed PoMo where exactly would that be. I recently fitted a pickup tube to my very wide kettle mainly because the tap was a long way off the bottom of the kettle and I had to tilt the kettle a long way to get that last 4 or 5 litres out. The copper tube does a U from the outlet of the tap and I've cut the end of the tube flat so it sits snugly against the bottom of the kettle. Will that go OK you reckon as I have not yet tried it out (maybe this weekend)????



If it's in the centre of the kettle, it's not well placed. After a whirlpool, that's where the hop debris and hot break will be. Mine goes from the tap to about 7" away from the centre on the opposite side of the kettle. It's slightly curved to allow the whirlpool to flow around it and the tip is turned downwards. I found when I recently brewed a wheat beer, it picks up a little break material, but I figure it'll settle out in the fermenter anyway. Another pale ale I brewed like that was great. Lost only about a litre of beer amongst the break and hop crap.


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## Adzmax (9/11/07)

Yeah it's interesting theory. I used a jumbo hop sock and the contents are definitely exposed to a nice boiling action, personally I just hate cleaning them but no problem with utilization, I just hook one of Ross's hop bags on the side of the pot with some wire and it works a treat. Anyhoo each to their own huh!


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## Aaron (9/11/07)

Never used a hop sock with pellets or plugs. Just whirlpool with no filtering and no problems. I don't see the point of a hop sock.


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## DJR (9/11/07)

I used one for ages, now i don't. I'd only use it if i was using flowers, which is never.

Good whirlpool, a bit of whirlfloc and hop pellets means no need for me.


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## andrewg (9/11/07)

Aaron said:


> Never used a hop sock with pellets or plugs. Just whirlpool with no filtering and no problems. I don't see the point of a hop sock.


No hop sock for me too - whirlpooling works really well and if there is any residual debris it drops out in the cube or (at worst) the fermenter. The only time I would use a hop sock would be to dry hop.
cheers
HStB


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## Gulpa (9/11/07)

I recently used a hopsock for aroma with some flowers. Im very unhappy with the aroma (virtually none) and dont think I will use a hop sock again with flowers. Think Ill try a strainer at the end of the pickup tube next.

Cheers,
Andrew.


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## warrenlw63 (9/11/07)

Gulpa said:


> I recently used a hopsock for aroma with some flowers. Im very unhappy with the aroma (virtually none) and dont think I will use a hop sock again with flowers. Think Ill try a strainer at the end of the pickup tube next.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andrew.



Andrew

Set your kettle up like this and whole hops and plugs are a breeze and smell great to boot.  

Warren -


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## devo (9/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Andrew
> 
> Set your kettle up like this and whole hops and plugs are a breeze and smell great to boot.
> 
> Warren -




I'm setting up my kettle the same way warren, great idea. 

I recently purchased flowers and plugs specifically for this process.


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## Pumpy (9/11/07)

devo said:


> I'm setting up my kettle the same way warren, great idea.
> 
> I recently purchased flowers and plugs specifically for this process.




Mee Too!

Pumpy


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## Steve (9/11/07)

Pumpy said:


> Mee Too!
> 
> Pumpy



Mee three

Steve


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## Gulpa (9/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Andrew
> 
> Set your kettle up like this and whole hops and plugs are a breeze and smell great to boot.
> 
> Warren -



Cheers Warren,

Sorry if this is a dumb question - Im new at this. What happens to the break in this situation? Does the break sit above the strainer?

Thanks,
Andrew.


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## warrenlw63 (9/11/07)

Gulpa said:


> Cheers Warren,
> 
> Sorry if this is a dumb question - Im new at this. What happens to the break in this situation? Does the break sit above the strainer?
> 
> ...



Not a dumb question at all Andrew. The sludge sort of becomes entangled by the hop flowers. Works in a similar fashion to a grainbed. You'll get a little bit carried over to the cube/s or fermenter but not too much at all.

Also if you set up the false bottom in the kettle and use mainly flowers or plugs you can also add around 20% (max) of your hop weight in pellets. They pretty much get caught up with the spooge in the whole hops.

Great if you want to give your beer a boost with a few high AAU pellets to augment your flowers and/or plugs.

Warren -


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## bljpoad (9/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Andrew
> 
> Set your kettle up like this and whole hops and plugs are a breeze and smell great to boot.
> 
> Warren -



Warren, this may be a dumb question, but is that FB welded onto the base of your kettle? If not, do you ever get anything getting through around the edges where it makes contact with the kettle?
- Berwyck


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## warrenlw63 (9/11/07)

No not welded Berwyck. Would be difficult seeing that the kettle is ... gulp aluminium h34r: (dons flame suit repelling anti-ally crusaders).

Its basically hard-plumbed with a length of copper pipe and an elbow. Takes a fair bit of body English to lift it once its tightened down.

I'll try and draw a basic diagram to better explain what I mean. 

Warren -


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## bljpoad (9/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> No not welded Berwyck. Would be difficult seeing that the kettle is ... gulp aluminium h34r: (dons flame suit repelling anti-ally crusaders).
> 
> Its basically hard-plumbed with a length of copper pipe and an elbow. Takes a fair bit of body English to lift it once its tightened down.
> 
> ...



Nah, I get what you mean Warren. I was wondering because my current kettle is Al, and probably my next one too 
- Berwyck


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## Gulpa (9/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Not a dumb question at all Andrew. The sludge sort of becomes entangled by the hop flowers. Works in a similar fashion to a grainbed. You'll get a little bit carried over to the cube/s or fermenter but not too much at all.
> 
> Also if you set up the false bottom in the kettle and use mainly flowers or plugs you can also add around 20% (max) of your hop weight in pellets. They pretty much get caught up with the spooge in the whole hops.
> 
> ...



Thanks Warren,

Sounds like this is what I need. Where do I get the ss mesh for the bottom from?

Cheers,
Andrew.


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## warrenlw63 (9/11/07)

False bottoms are available from most of the sponsors on this site. Around $45 each.

Here's a diagram better explaining how it stays down. Same setup in my mash tun.







(Pardon the 5 minute graphics)  

Apologies if it seems like a thread hijack. Just a genuine alternative.

Warren -


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## Batz (9/11/07)

I too am a owner of a hop sock that rarely gets used anymore.Time after time I have proven that I do not get the same results using the sock,I defiantly loose hop flavor and aroma.
This I have discussed with many other brewers and almost all have agreed with my results,well all but one  

Batz


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## AndrewQLD (9/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> False bottoms are available from most of the sponsors on this site. Around $45 each.
> 
> Here's a diagram better explaining how it stays down. Same setup in my mash tun.
> 
> ...




Nice Warren,

I have been doing something similar for years, except I use a S/S mesh box I made instead of the false bottom. The beauty of this method is you get every last drop of wort out of the boiler and hop flowers are a fantastic filter.

Cheers
Andrew


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## warrenlw63 (9/11/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> hop flowers are a fantastic filter.



:beer: I'll drink to that Andrew. 

Warren -


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## sathid (9/11/07)

Are they hard to clean? Are they useful for when you use pellets, or do the little bits still get through? I think my stainless pot might be a bit thin to weld...


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## PostModern (9/11/07)

I'd like to have 2 kettles. One with a FB for flowers and one with P/U tube for pellets. If only we could get American hops in flower form... stupid quarantine!

EDIT: D'oh... I could of course just have two modules... screw off, screw on. This bears some thinking about.


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## warrenlw63 (9/11/07)

PostModern said:


> EDIT: D'oh... I could of course just have two modules... screw off, screw on. This bears some thinking about.



:lol: Only takes me about 2 minutes to change the false bottom to the standard pickup tube for pellets PoMo. 

Warren -


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## TidalPete (9/11/07)

PostModern said:


> I've recently taken to "brewing bareback" as well. Only when I use pellets exclusively tho. Flowers would block my pickup tube. I don't filter at all. Just boil, whirlpool (with more hops) and run into no-chill cubes. A good whirlpool and well placed pickup tube are all you need.



And 'drop' which I don't have ATM.


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## Tony (9/11/07)

Batz said:


> This I have discussed with many other brewers and almost all have agreed with my results,well all but one



who would that be Batz? :lol: 

I use a 20 micron filter sock to remove the break. It catches it all and washes out like brown mud. I dont loose a single drop to this and get great clean clea beer.

I have adapted both my kettles brewing with free flowers with false bottoms and they work great.

I am going to try the fine mesh FB in my big kettle to see if it holds up most of the pellets..... will be interesting.

cheers


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## matti (9/11/07)

Great stuff.
How does it affect the flow rate filtering through all that junk?

I dont have pump so run off would depend on gravity and I am concerned about kettle losses.

Oh, my kettle is 70L S/S.

Matti


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## blackbock (9/11/07)

It seems that lots of brewers are thinking twice about their hopsocks. I am sure that my hopsock loses utilisation and precious aroma when I use it.

I am wondering whether anyone has experimented with something like this for flowers:






I thought about making one something like it before I learned that Domonsura sells them.


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## Gulpa (10/11/07)

Thanks for the pic Warren. My next goal was to address kettle losses to trub. This kills two birds with one stone.

Regards
Andrew.


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## Tony (10/11/07)

I gravity feed from my kettle to the firmenter and it flows fine. Even through the massive amount of hop flowers in the pic above...... that was 400g of hop flowers in 45 liters.

I had no problems with it. Actually in that kettle (my larger one) i only use a bit of SS mesh that has half the furface area nad it ran through no worries.

cheers


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## SpillsMostOfIt (10/11/07)

I think I've come in a bit late on this discussion, but I have never used a hopsock until just recently when I was convinced to buy one. 

I've now used it twice and am not convinced. Beer #1 was kinda lacking, but I prefer to think it was me rather than the hopsock. Beer #2 is still fermenting, BUT in both cases the hops inside the sock retained a green colouring that they do not when they are allowed to roam freely around the kettle. To my mind, that means they are not releasing the same amount of *something* in the sock that they are when sans sock...


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## Tony (10/11/07)

Im going sockless tommorrow

Brewing an Ameican style wheat beer.

Bittering with perle
3/4 g/L Hersbrucker and Spalt @ 10 min
1.5 g/L HErsbrucker and D-SAAZ flame out.

I have noticed a lack of hoppiness when using the sock but i love the convenience of being able to lift them out and drain em out before running off.

My Sheep Shagger hop schedule consumed 2 liters of wort that would have been drained out in a sock or my hop flowe basket.

Thinking of making a bugge basket to hold more hops

cheers


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## dicko (10/11/07)

Hi all,

I use a hop sock most of the time and I agree that for a bittering addition it is not necessary IMO.
The whirlpool method works fine and I don't get much hop trub through to the fermenter.

However, I have found that for flavour and aroma additions they are great due to the fact that a 15 minute addition is just that.- a 15 minute addition.
I add my flavour and aroma hops at the required times in the hop sock and then at flame out I lift the sock to be just clear of the top of the wort so that the sock drains back into the kettle ( and yes I am careful not to cause HSA.)
By doing this I am avoiding the situation of the aroma addition becoming more of a flavour addition and the flavour addition increasing the bitterness.

Now I am not wanting to go into wether you may obtain better hop utilisation by not using the sock but by using it for the flavour and aroma additions I feel that you are able to more accurately reproduce the same beer ( hop wise) because those late additions are the same each time you brew that recipe.

So i believe the sock does have a place in my brewery and I am happy to use it as above. B) 

Cheers


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## Pumpy (11/11/07)

Tony said:


> Im going sockless tommorrow
> 
> Brewing an Ameican style wheat beer.
> 
> ...



Tony after you were the person that 'inspired' the development of Hopsock !!!  

For the reduction of trub in the kettle .

You have come around full circle to invent the 'Sockless' or dare I say it 'No Sock Method '

which is where we started :blink: 

Pumpy


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## Pumpy (11/11/07)

I am sure for many brewers there will always be a place in their brewery for the Hopsock.

Pumpy


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## matti (11/11/07)

I've followed this post with interest and my conclusion is.

Get a giant hopsock!

Ensure you break flowers plugs up and stir them until disolved in sock.

as for plugs and pellet I have found lost nothing using a hopsock. 
They like flower on acid.. %AA that is


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## jimmyjack (11/11/07)

I find I get better utilisation using the hop sock <_< In fact I believe that it almost delivers more bitterness than calculated and I have formulated recipes to account for it

I like to get a big rapid boil going and got tired of scraping the hops off the sides of the boiler. I also like the clean up convienience of just pulling it out and dumping.

Cheers, JJ


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## Ross (11/11/07)

I probably should keep out of this as I'm the seller of the said product & may appear to be biased.

But having said that, I use one with EVERY brew & since long before I started selling them.
I can't detect any difference, either way, using or not using, in terms of bitterness, flavour or aroma. If I were to notice a drop off, I'd personally be adding a little more for the convenience (in my set up) rather than not using. I can't tip my kettle, so cleaning out pellets or flowers is an absolute pita.
This year I entered 14 beers into club & State competetions. 8 scored silver & 6 scored bronze, which though not testament to using the hopsock (may have achieved better without it  ), certainly gives creditability to my overall process.


Cheers Ross


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## Pumpy (11/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Andrew
> 
> Set your kettle up like this and whole hops and plugs are a breeze and smell great to boot.
> 
> Warren -




Warren do you use gas to heat your kettle or an immersion heater ?

If so would the the False bottom work OK with gas fired kettle .

Pumpy


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## Tony (11/11/07)

Pumpy said:


> Tony after you were the person that 'inspired' the development of Hopsock !!!
> 
> For the reduction of trub in the kettle .
> 
> ...



Ya.... ive been credited with inventing something. The Sockless method where you Just put them in the kettle and boil them :lol: 

But seriously...... My Sockless brew day was very Very interesting.

I made lots of discoveries and took lots of pics so please excuse the long post but i like to share.

I did 2 brews today in 2 dtterent kettles..... and both had flase bottoms in them of different construction.

I havnt worked out how to add the pics into the post yet like you could with the old Skin (Dane?) so i will describe then post all the pics at the end and you can work it out. I just hope they are all in order.

I did a 26 liter batch Botubeer in my 50 lite kettle. It has a large SS perfitated plate false bottom that covers 2/3 to 3/4 of the bottom. I put it in for hop flowers but i thought i would try it out with pellets.

Well it worked great. I got a small bit of hop debri in the line for about 3 seconds to the cube then it was clear all the way to the end. You can see what was left. Nothing but hops!.

At the same time i was brewing a big 54 lite batch of American Wheat beer. So there was always going to be lots of cold break (50 something% Wheat). In the bottim of thin i had my small expreimental SS mesh false bottom that has proves itsself with flowers by the hundred but i thought i would give it a go with hop pellets instead of using the hop sock.

The recipe called for around the 200g mark so a good test it would be but i was confident it wiuld be OK.

I ran it to the kettle and filtered it through my 20 micon hop sock to see what would make it through.

I managed to run the full volume into the firmenter in one hit. I usually have to stop 3 or 4 times to clean out the sock as the break blocks it.

I have figured out that the hops sink faster and form a filter bed for the break. I got about 10to 15% in the sock (and the 20 micron catches everything)

On the hopsocks side......... It was a PITA claning all the hops out of the kettle. I jusr got it pumpin down the driveway to the gutter and some dickhead kid came and rode his scooter through the hops and break. He stopped and looked at his green feet and cried........."what sort of water is this" I said........ you dont want to know whats in that......... that will teach you to play in the gutter wont it. He rode off really fast flicking his feet as he went. that was fun anyway.

I didnt notice any real difference in the hop character to the similar beers i have made with hop socks. And I do love being able to lift them out of the kettle and drain them.

I lost maybe 500Ml to the break ect in the big kettle so thats not so bad. almost all the hops stayed in the kettle.

here are some pics. there is a pic of the small batck using the perfiated plate FB that lost no liquo at all but stopped almost all the hops

and some progressive photos of the draining of the big kettle with the little mesh FB. and a pic of the mesh.

cheers


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## The King of Spain (11/11/07)

First no-hop sack brew today. Had a good brew day, beat my target gravities and even ran out of gas at flame out :lol: (must buy a quick pick in lotto).

To comment on my new 250 micron hop sock . As a strainer it does not catch trub very well. Good for hops though.

Having said that, a good cold break is a good cold break. I got down to 23C pretty quick and you could see great white snakes in the kettle. Its still break in the fermenter (hope). My theory is that that it may even benefit fermention, and the yeast never gets to attack it as I wind back temps to zero once done.

What micron bag do others (Tony) use?

Cheers


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## Tony (12/11/07)

same 250 micron one as everyone else when boiling hops in it but i have a 20 micron one thats not available through ross for straining out the break. I got them from a place i used to work at.

the 250 micron ones wont catch break. it just "breaks" up and goes right through.

the 20 micron one catches it and holds it and lets the liquid fo through slowly untill there is this brown mud in the filter sock.

cheers


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## warrenlw63 (12/11/07)

Pumpy said:


> Warren do you use gas to heat your kettle or an immersion heater ?
> 
> If so would the the False bottom work OK with gas fired kettle .
> 
> Pumpy



Hey Pumpy

I use a NASA. Never had a problem with any form of scorching in conjunction with the false bottom. Kettle is aluminium though with a reasonably thick bottom. No problems with hot spots.

That being said I won't light the burner until I start the second sparge.

Warren -


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## Jye (12/11/07)

Tony, thats pretty cool that a FB can handle just pellets, I didnt think it would have a chance, either it would clog or let them through. How do you think it would go if you were to recirculate through it while chilling?


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## Tony (12/11/07)

Jye I dont really know. I gravity feed out of my kettles. The flow was fast and a bit dirty for the first liter or so and then it slowed a bit and was clear as a bell to the end when i got a tad more crap through but you can see from the break in the big kettle with the wire mesh, the hops make a great filter.I got maybe a handfull of hops and break with most of it being break into the filter sock on its way to the firmenter. I really wanted to see what would get through.

The larger perfirated flase bottom worked better but it will take a bit to mould one like that to the bottom of the old 18 gallon keg that is like the grand canyon on the bottom.

Maybe you could give it a go and post your findings. I couldnt believe the FB held the hop pellets either. I just thought i would give it a go and if it was a disaster....well..... i wouldnt do it again.

3 things could happen i guess...... they will jusy go through and recirs as well, they will block it and stick the kettle of they could form a perfect break filterbed leaving nothing but clear wort to pump to the firmenter.

this could make you famous mate 

cheers


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## PistolPatch (12/11/07)

Howdy dicko!

You mentioned you pull your sock out so it's just above the wort at the end of the boil. I actually leave mine in. I figure that the flavour and aroma additions that most (maybe all?) recipes supply mean that the hops stay in the kettle whilst it chills. Does that make sense?

(Wonder if this affects no-chillers???) 

I suppose a lot of the above really depends on your system and how that system works with flowers/plugs/pellets. I would imagine that with some systems a hop-sock would be a God-send.

The original question though proposed an alternative method of using the hop-sock as an after-filter. I syphon out of my kettle and went through a stage of not using the hop-sock. Unfortunately at the same time I also had a dodgy auto-syphon (the ones they sell now have too bigger an internal diameter and actually just don't work believe it or not ) which means you basically have to pump the wort out - ridiculous! This was the stage where I tried using the hop-sock as an after-filter.

It definitely doesn't work. As the other guys say, it will clog almost immediately. (And do not buy an auto-syphon now unless it has an internal diameter of x mm - will edit that x tomorrow evening.)

I've recently learned a few (in hindsight, very simple) ways of better handling an auto-syphon so as it only drains off the clear wort. Maybe down the track I'll have a bash at a side by side hopsock/no-hopsock to see if my new methods alleviate the need.

I've certainly had no worries using one so far though but, for me, the simpler the better.

Oh! And hold on! If it ends up not making a difference on my system, I think I have just thought of another use for it anyway!

Cheers,
Pat


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## Batz (12/11/07)

PistolPatch said:


> Howdy dicko!
> 
> You mentioned you pull your sock out so it's just above the wort at the end of the boil. I actually leave mine in. I figure that the flavour and aroma additions that most (maybe all?) recipes supply mean that the hops stay in the kettle whilst it chills. Does that make sense?
> 
> ...





Too many rabbits Pat
Lots of rabbits in China

Batz


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## PistolPatch (13/11/07)

Batz,

You are a moderator and should therefore be setting a good example to us plebs.

Anyway old thing (lol) will call you now and advise you on the necessary deletions such as this post.

LOL
Pat


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## warrenlw63 (13/11/07)

Batz said:


> Too many rabbits Pat
> Lost of rabbits in China
> 
> Batz



Damn that Emporer Nasi Goring !! :icon_chickcheers: 

Warren -


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## PistolPatch (13/11/07)

I am so embarrassment Warren!

Batz has fallen asleep so I have no idea what his joke meant???

I hate that!

Do you reckon anyone will notice how OT we have dragged this topic?

LOL! It was 40 degrees here today, what's your excuse???


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## Peter Wadey (13/11/07)

Tony said:


> ....I couldnt believe the FB held the hop pellets either.
> cheers



Tony, Jye,
I can. I have been using a false bottom in my 60 litre boiler for the last 6 yrs and predominately use pellets.
That flowers form a filter for break is also nothing new.
Glad you are making some personal brewing discoveries though.

Rgds,
Pete


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## Jye (13/11/07)

Pete are you using just pellets with the FB or chuck in some flowers to help filter?

Sounds like Im gonna have to give this ago.


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## warrenlw63 (13/11/07)

Jye said:


> Pete are you using just pellets with the FB or chuck in some flowers to help filter?
> 
> Sounds like Im gonna have to give this ago.



Maybe Tony used some rice gulls in conjunction with his pellets Jye? :lol: 

Warren -


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## Peter Wadey (14/11/07)

Jye said:


> Pete are you using just pellets with the FB or chuck in some flowers to help filter?
> 
> Sounds like Im gonna have to give this ago.



Jye,
Aww, maybe one or two  




No seriously, usually just whatever my recipe calls for. 
Most of the time it's just pellets because that's what's available.

(Pic is from an English IPA from Friday night. 23 litres, 154g of hops, not all flowers) 

Pete


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## TidalPete (14/11/07)

You've got to bite the bullet Pat & put a hole in that Robinox.  

TP :beer:


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## Cortez The Killer (14/11/07)

For all my AG batches to date I've used a jumbo hop sock from Ross

I'll give it a go without on my next batch and look for any differences

It is pretty handy to just lift all the hop gunk out though - and there is hardly any loss the gunk at the bottom of the kettle with just the break in there

Cheers


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## Steve (16/11/07)

i know it might sound obvious but is everyone making sure their hop sock is properly cleaned before use? Just a thought h34r:


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## Cortez The Killer (16/11/07)

I've been socking the bag in a bleach solution overnight after use

This clears most of the gunk out of the holes

But you're right - The holes do get easily clogged - which I reckon would limit hop utilisation

Cheers


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## Hutch (16/11/07)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I've been socking the bag in a bleach solution overnight after use
> 
> This clears most of the gunk out of the holes
> 
> ...


I've used both the 250 and 500micron hopsocks, and find they both clog, needing a good soak in hot Sodium Percarbonate to clean them up.
I'm not 100% sold on their utilisation either, so considering going the no-hopsock route as well.


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## The King of Spain (16/11/07)

Steve said:


> i know it might sound obvious but is everyone making sure their hop sock is properly cleaned before use? Just a thought h34r:



Spot on. Thats what prompted my inital post. I had soaked my old sock in Napisan for days with limited effect, but after too many rinse-only brews you could just only blow air though it. Just arrived in the post was my nice new sock from Craftbrewer and I was wondering if I wanted to do all that again, or maybe I could simply use it as a strainer. Takes the hops out but not the break so I am still whirlpooling.

Cheers


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## warrenlw63 (16/11/07)

I think its starting to look like this.

Unless you're using a plate heat exchange type C/F chiller I'm beginning to suspect that too many people are a little bit neurotic in regards to how much gunk makes it through to the fermenter.

I reckon a bit of pellet hop poo in the primary will do little to no harm. 

Warren -


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## Ross (16/11/07)

The King of Spain said:


> Spot on. Thats what prompted my inital post. I had soaked my old sock in Napisan for days with limited effect, but after too many rinse-only brews you could just only blow air though it. Just arrived in the post was my nice new sock from Craftbrewer and I was wondering if I wanted to do all that again, or maybe I could simply use it as a strainer. Takes the hops out but not the break so I am still whirlpooling.
> 
> Cheers



Did you get a 500 micron or 250? 

I use the 500 these days as using a lot of flowers & it only every gets a quick rinse & hung up till next use - Never clean it - Rarely cleaned the 250 either though & never had a problem, but if you got the 250 & it's unused you are welcome to swap it over  

cheers Ross


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## PostModern (16/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> I think its starting to look like this.
> 
> Unless you're using a plate heat exchange type C/F chiller I'm beginning to suspect that too many people are a little bit neurotic in regards to how much gunk makes it through to the fermenter.
> 
> ...



I agree. I'm only using my sock for flowers now.


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## The King of Spain (16/11/07)

Ross said:


> Did you get a 500 micron or 250?
> 
> I use the 500 these days as using a lot of flowers & it only every gets a quick rinse & hung up till next use - Never clean it - Rarely cleaned the 250 either though & never had a problem, but if you got the 250 & it's unused you are welcome to swap it over
> 
> cheers Ross




Thanks Ross, its a 250 but I'm quite happy to hang onto it. For the benefit of others I notice that my old hop sock was not made of the stiff nylon stuff that Ross's ones are made of - which has to be easier to clean. My old one (puchased from a HBS) was made of softer material that seems to have absorbed wort which has made the problem worse. I suspect that if my original came from Craftbrewer I would have never had a problem.

Cheers


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## tipsy (16/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> I think its starting to look like this.
> 
> Unless you're using a plate heat exchange type C/F chiller I'm beginning to suspect that too many people are a little bit neurotic in regards to how much gunk makes it through to the fermenter.
> 
> ...



I used to be a neurotic brewer.
Now that I do the whirlpool thing and not worry about the bit of "poo" getting into the primary I am having a lot more fun.

I cannot for the life of me notice any difference in taste :icon_cheers:


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## devo (24/11/07)

I finally got around to brewing a PA the no sock method today using a false bottom (Warrens method) and hop flowers only (Green bullet + NZ Goldings).







Have to say I was impressed with the smell and the filtering quality of whole hops.


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## warrenlw63 (24/11/07)

devo said:


> I finally got around to brewing a PA the no sock method today using a false bottom (Warrens method) and hop flowers only (Green bullet + NZ Goldings).
> 
> View attachment 16152
> 
> ...



Go Devo... :super: I love those shots of whole hops after the kettle's drained. True brew porn. B) 

Warren -


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## june (25/11/07)

Oh,for me,i never use a hop sock, i just whirl pool at the end.....


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## joecast (8/12/07)

well that was a very interesting read. good points on both sides for sure.

the reason im thinking of going "the sock" was being tired of leaving two to three litres of wort in the kettle every brew. i've tried whirl pooling but think the uneven bottom of my kettle might unsettle things a bit. 

anyway, one question i didnt see addressed was is a 500micron sock too big for pellets? will the small pellet particles just get washed right through the sock during the boil? 
i would like to use flowers which is what made me think of getting a sock, but mainly use pellets so dont want it to be wasted then. thanks
joe


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## Ross (9/12/07)

Joe,

The 500 micron will let a very small amount of the pellets through, but it's the sock i personally use these days.
If using a plate chiller I'd probably go the 250 micron.

cheers Ross


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## razz (9/12/07)

Good morning boys. I'm using a 500 micron sock, with pellets, and I chill through a plate chiller no problems.


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## Cortez The Killer (4/2/08)

Finally got around to doing two batches without the hopsock and will probably continue without the sock moving forward 

All the gunk dropped to the bottom of the kettle and was in a neat pile in the middle of the base - after whirlpooling

My pick up draws from the side of the kettle and while a little hop material was picked up when draining I don't think it'll be an issue 

I may have left a bit more wort behind in the kettle - but not enough to worry about

I'm sold on continuing without the hopsock - I'll see if there is any perceptable change in utilisation

I can't really see the benefit in the sock other than being able to lift the spent hops out - but when contrasting this to having to clean out the sock / soaking it to clean the holes / and a small loss to trub - I'd recommend going without the sock

Cheers


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## browndog (4/2/08)

The King of Spain said:


> I'm tempted to do my next brew without using a hop sock.
> 
> I would run my cooled wort through a steralised sock (250 Micron) at the end to filter out both hops and break.
> 
> ...



This is the way I brew, though I no-chill so I don't worry about sterilising the sock before filtering through it, I took a few pics on the weekend when I did an Aussie Ale.




Draining the kettle



Draining the sock



Left over trub

cheers

Browndog


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## Steve (4/2/08)

browndog said:


> This is the way I brew, though I no-chill so I don't worry about sterilising the sock before filtering through it, I took a few pics on the weekend when I did an Aussie Ale.
> 
> View attachment 17562
> 
> ...



is that two pick up tubes in your kettle? :unsure:


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## KoNG (4/2/08)

Steve, maybe for a bit of whirpool action ..?


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## browndog (4/2/08)

Yep. Kong is right, the one on the left is the inlet to the kettle, however the way I have it plumbed at the moment I am not able to use it to whirlpool as I don't have a return from the kettle to the pump.

cheers

Browndog


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## Kingy (4/2/08)

i dont use my hopsock in the boil no more either, unless im doing a double batch. (more hops to add) I tried using the hopsock as a filter. 
After i no-chilled the beer in a cube, i poured the cold wort through the hopsock into the fermenter to catch all the trub and hop crap etc.etc. But it blocked up fairly quick and gave me the shits. So now the hopsock just sits there unless a double batch is done.

:icon_offtopic: 
Ive went looking today to biuld a pick up tube and tap into my boiler.Whick im sure would reduce trub, And also a tap for the esky i have but couldnt find any anywhere, got the shits and came home. Im sure id get more wort out with a pick up tube and tap as opposed to suck and siphon.(as the lower the level of wort gets the more the hop/trub runs to the edge of the pot.) any ideas on where to source these from? (moving to a 3 vessel system) <_<


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