# Mead Sugar Break Times



## brettprevans (25/1/10)

ok so this is more of a request for info than me providsing info. 

I think it would be useful for mead makers out ther to provide data on the fermentation times of their meads so new makers can have a good resource.

eg.

type of mead (ie pure mead, fruit mead, braggot), %alc, time to 1/3 sugar break, time to 2/3 sugar break, finished fermentation.

we take all the data, then can tabulate it, showing max/min and avg times.

So BrewerPete & Airghead, what do you think?


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## Airgead (25/1/10)

I'll be putting on a mahogany mead tomorrow. I'll post all the data I can. I don't do the sugar break thing though. I prefer a longer, slower fermentation. Old school...

Cheers
Dave


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## pdilley (25/1/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> ...type of mead (ie pure mead, fruit mead, braggot), %alc, time to 1/3 sugar break, time to 2/3 sugar break, finished fermentation.
> 
> we take all the data, then can tabulate it, showing max/min and avg times.
> 
> So BrewerPete & Airghead, what do you think?



I already did that last year in this post on 43 litres of Stringy Bark mead post.

If I remember I started tracking the fermentation schedule each day and making note of when a sugar break happens.

Mead brewing or ageing is few and far between so the volume of posts on this subject will take a while to build up but that post is a start.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans (27/1/10)

yeah i know u did mate. thats what also gave me the idea. but 1 dataset doesnt make a rule. 
i was mainly wanting to extend the work you started as a referance for mead makers on here as it getting a bigger following.

so all good. ar some stage ill set up a spreadsheet and collate the data.


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## Airgead (27/1/10)

Started my Mahogany mead last night. OG 1.070. I'm expecting it to ferment out dry so ABV around 10-11%.

I'm fermenting with a champagne yeast as I want something fairly neutral to see what flavours the honey has when fermented out. its really interesting unfermented but it might be a bit much on its own in a mead. Once I see how this one turns out I'll work out what to do with the couple of kilos I have left.

I'm not following the sugar break thing (I just bunged the nutrient in at the start) but I'll take a few gravity readings along the way and see what happens. I'll have to work out how to take a sample I can put back in because in 4l a few gravity readings and some losses in transfers and there's not much left.

Cheers
Dave


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## pdilley (27/1/10)

Dave the sugar break thing is just a word used for people who monitor the consumption of fermentable sugars for each stage, say 1/2 sugars eaten up is 1/2 sugar break.

Nothing to do with the nutrients, thats SNA schedule (Standard Nutrient Addition) which is staged rather than all up front which is the difference between your style and that one particular Mead I put down.

City
That one I put down is going to be closer to the drier territory though, more dry white wine like. For sweeter I would want something finishing mid to high 20s to 30s.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Tao (27/1/10)

Not sure if this helps but it is a day by day log for the most part of my first 'long' mead. The others have been Joe's ancient orange (look on gotmead.com for that one).

*Mead*

*Ingredients*

Orange Blossom Honey (10KG)
H2O to (22.71L)
20 g ICV-D47 Yeast (Lallemand) (dissolve in 200ml water)
25g go-ferm (dissolved with yeast)
20g FermaidK

*Technical Information*

OG- at 26C 1.128 (1.130) 
30 Brix
FG: 025 - 035

Volume 23L

Yeast Pitched at 11am Monday July 14
10g Fermaid K added (6 hours after Yeast was pitched)

Second nutrient addition will be at 1.086-4



July 15th SG: 1.130
Fermentation starting well
Temp is 16-18C

July 16th SG: 1.124-6
Ferment at 16-18C

July 17th SG: 1.120
Ferment at 16-18C

July 18th
PH 3.2
SG: 1.118
PH adjustment teaspoon Calcium carbonate
Temp 16C
Cloth removed and Airlock put in place

July 19th
Temp 18C
PH 3.6
SG: 1.118
PH adjustment 1 teaspoons Calcium carbonate



July 20, 2008 
SG: 1.114
Temp 18C
Bubble every 7 seconds

July 21, 2008
SG: 1.108
Temp 18C



July 22, 2008
SG: 1.103
Temp 18C



July 23, 2008
SG: 1.100
Temp 18C

July 24, 2008
SG: 1.098
Temp 18C

July 25, 2008
SG: 1.092
Temp: 20C

July 26, 2008
SG: 1.092
-Yeast Hulls added 4g dissolved in 1/3 cup of water (boiled for 1.5Min) cooled (yeast was d47). Rate just over .5g per Gallon
Temp 19C

July 27, 2008
SG: 1.088
Temp 19C

July 28, 2008
SG: 1.084
Added 5g Fermaid K diluted in 100Ml water (Boiled)
Temp 19C

July 29, 2008
SG: 1.078
Temp 19C



July 30, 2008
SG: 1.072 Temp 20C



July 31, 2008
SG: 1.070
Temp 20C

August 1, 2008
At Sigur Ros gig

August 2, 2008
SG: 1.060

August 3, 2008
SG: 1.060

August 4, 2008
SG: 1.058

August 5, 2008
SG: N/A (late train)

August 6, 2008
SG: 1.050

August 7, 2008
SG: 1.049

August 10, 2008
SG: 1.044

August 11, 2008
SG: 1.041
Temp 21C
3g yeast hulls



August 17, 2008
SG: 1.035



August 18, 2008
Racked

Jan 31st, 2009 100g Med toast American Oak, racked.



28/03/09 Bottled Mead


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## brettprevans (27/1/10)

That's the stuff mate. Thx.
Rice hulls? Interesting. Why


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## kelbygreen (27/1/10)

hmm wouldnt mind trying a mead how did this turn out?

and why is the process so long may I ask?? lol


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## Tao (28/1/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> That's the stuff mate. Thx.
> Rice hulls? Interesting. Why


 
Ah, yeast hulls - they act to stop a slow fermentation.

-*Yeast Hulls**
*Yeast hulls are also called yeast ghosts. Essentially they are a cell wall/membrane complex. They have the ability to adsorb the fatty acids and thus reduce their inhibitory effect. When yeast hulls are added to the fermenting must they adsorb the fatty acids and thus permit the active yeast cells to metabolize a greater quantity of sugar. This consequently prevents stuck fermentation.
LINK


'hmm wouldnt mind trying a mead how did this turn out?'
- This turned out well, it is a nice sweet mead but like all things it will be better next time. Personally if it's your first mead I would do this recipe LINK
I use 5kg of honey (orange blossom) for a 3 gallon batch and it is good after about 4 months (that's quick). 


'and why is the process so long may I ask?? lol'
- It takes a while because you are making wine. 12 months was fairly quick, a mead can get better over years just like a wine. I personally brew 3 gallon batches as my smallest now because it takes the same amount of time to do that as it does to do a one gallon batch and a 5 gallon takes the same amount of time as well but since they take a while to age I prefer to make bigger batches.


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## Batz (28/1/10)

I recieved a Wyeast 4632 this morning and smacked it right away, ready to go within eight hours.
Be brewing a mead tomorrow.

Batz


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## brettprevans (28/1/10)

keep some records batz on ur sugar break for the dataset. 

ive go to get off my arse and brew some mead. got my yeasts. got all my recipes worked out. got all my honeys etc. 

Tao - great info on rice hulls. dont remember reading that in the mead books. must reread them.


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## Airgead (28/1/10)

OK... I took a chance and dropped my (sanitised) hydrometer straight into the fermenter. It can sit there until racking time. I'll do a reading each day or so and post results.

Started on 26/1 at 1.070
28/1 1.060

Stay tuned for more...


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## brettprevans (28/1/10)

Airgead said:


> OK... I took a chance and dropped my (sanitised) hydrometer straight into the fermenter. It can sit there until racking time. I'll do a reading each day or so and post results.


LMAO thats one way of doing it. maybe we should be reccomending that to all the newbies who ask how to take a hydro sample. :lol: 

ive got to get more pippettes for my refrac. im currently using a teasppon. not exactly a reliable method.


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## brettprevans (28/1/10)

Airgead said:


> OK... I took a chance and dropped my (sanitised) hydrometer straight into the fermenter. It can sit there until racking time. I'll do a reading each day or so and post results.


LMAO thats one way of doing it. maybe we should be reccomending that to all the newbies who ask how to take a hydro sample. :lol: 

ive got to get more pippettes for my refrac. im currently using a teasppon. not exactly a reliable method.



edit: oh and the banksia honey ive got (along with organge blossum, red gum and SBL (blend)). been dooing some tests and i recon the taste it just too huge for a straight mead. maybe with other spices etc, braggots or fruit meads. but a bit full on by itswself.

just my 2c.


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## pdilley (28/1/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> keep some records batz on ur sugar break for the dataset.
> 
> ive go to get off my arse and brew some mead. got my yeasts. got all my recipes worked out. got all my honeys etc.
> 
> Tao - great info on rice hulls. dont remember reading that in the mead books. must reread them.




City,

You got your wires crossed mate 

He's not trying to prevent a stuck sparge in a beer mash tun but provide additional nutrients and steroid alcohols aka sterols. Yeast, not Rice mate. You can boil up packets of old yeast lying around and although technically not exactly yeast hulls it will do the job as it will have more nutrients some used and some unused by the yeast you pitch into the mead must or you can get a mix along with DAP and micronutrients in preparations like bintani yeast nutrient. The fermaid has a limited shelf life so you need to get it fresh and hope it doesn't roast in some unconditioned warehouse on the shipment over if you can not find a local source of it. I never could from my LHBSs whom offered the bintani as an alternative. It's a USA product.

This leads in to why meads ferment slower than beers. Besides more sugars tochew through than your normal beer, yeast grew up loving to munch on cereal grains so breads and beers are perfect for them but they find honey completely barren of nutrients they like to have so you put up with slow fermentations or you apply a SNA schedule to bring te must nutrient levels the same as with their prefered food/environment and you cut down the time considerably.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Airgead (28/1/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> LMAO thats one way of doing it. maybe we should be reccomending that to all the newbies who ask how to take a hydro sample. :lol:
> 
> ive got to get more pippettes for my refrac. im currently using a teasppon. not exactly a reliable method.



I'm usually pretty anal retentive about taking samples and sanitise the crap out of everything.. avoid O2 contaqct and all that. I usually only start doing readings once fermentation has pretty much visibly stopped. The problem with small batches is by the time you've taken a few samples half the batch is gone so I figured... its a glass fermenter... I can see through it... its just like a giant sample jar... why not.

I just hope fermentation finishes before I want to brew anything else.. othrwise a second hydrometer is in my future. 

Or a refractometer. I know they are good at taking OG readings, how do they go with taking FG and during fermentation readings? I've heard the alcohol changes the RI of the sample and needs to be factored out somehow. If they can do an accurate during fermentation reading without needing a full hydrometer sample I might be tempted to keep a closer eye on my fermentations... but then I couldn't taste the samples... decisions decisions...

Cheers
Dave

Edit: Oh.. and if you want a huge flavour... try mahogany. I'm sure this will end up too much as a straight mead and I'll need to blend but you never know until you try. Actually, the bug, huge honeys can make a really nice straight mead but they need to age for a long time.


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## pdilley (28/1/10)

I have the correction formula that makes the refractometer track beautifully the fermentation spot on. I was supposed to make a second Mead program for running the entire fermentation schedule on refractometer alone but have not had the time to fininish it.

Basically with that and some knowledge of wort sugar profiles I run all my beer fermentation on refractometer alone from pre/post boil to pre/post ferment.

It's a bit long as it has some long decimal point constant numbers but highly accurate. A few web sites are starting to pop up with it so maybe that's why I've been less motivated 

Forget which ones but though more wine? was posted by someone somewhere else when a refractometer question popped up. Only gotcha is you must clean your pipette right away and very well to prevent dried gunk and sugar crystals forming on it only to skew your tiny 1mL sample drop on your next sampling of your fermenting must.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans (29/1/10)

Brewer Pete said:


> City,
> 
> You got your wires crossed mate
> 
> ...



 damn not reading properly. yes i thought he was talking about rice hulls which is why i was perplexed. i couldnt for the life of me figure out htf rice hulls would contribute nutrients to a stuck ferment. yeast hulls makes much more sense. Ive got plenty of nutrient etc for my mead so thats ok.


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## Airgead (29/1/10)

Airgead said:


> Started on 26/1 at 1.070
> 28/1 1.060


 29/1 1.032

That's nearly 30 points overnight. This yeast (lalvin EC-1118) is a monster.


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## Airgead (30/1/10)

Airgead said:


> 29/1 1.032
> 
> That's nearly 30 points overnight. This yeast (lalvin EC-1118) is a monster.


30/1 1.020


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## Batz (31/1/10)

Batz said:


> I recieved a Wyeast 4632 this morning and smacked it right away, ready to go within eight hours.
> Be brewing a mead tomorrow.
> 
> Batz




Has anyone else done a mead using 4632? Do you expect to see any krausen?
Mine has been down a couple of days and no sign of any krausen at all, I'm aerating it with an aquarium pump as I read on the packet this yeast needs plenty of aeration.

Batz


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## MHB (31/1/10)

I'm another old school mead maker; I have read Brewer Pete's thoughts on mead making and remain far from convinced of either the need or desirability of some of what has been suggested.

Good honey, good yeast (yes Bats, used both of the Wyeast ones and dry EC1118 among others) good nutrient/acid balance, including lots of yeast hulls and a large helping of patience.

From what I have read I suspect that lots of the ideas coming from the USA are all about speeding up the brewing/maturation, the trade off being in long term stability and the potential for bottle maturation that sees the mead improving for decades.

It's probable that both approaches work, just that one doesn't work as well for me.
MHB



On Hydrometers, I leave a short one in the brew all the way through, taking it out for cleaning and sanitising it when I rack.
On Krausen, some not like beer; appears to be linked to must aeration, more O2 more foam early on. 4632 is my favourite, even for sweet meed, just keep feeding on racking until the yeast gives up somewhere around 18% ABV and you have the desired level of residual sweetness.

M


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## Airgead (31/1/10)

MHB said:


> On Krausen, some not like beer; appears to be linked to must aeration, more O2 more foam early on. 4632 is my favourite, even for sweet meed, just keep feeding on racking until the yeast gives up somewhere around 18% ABV and you have the desired level of residual sweetness.
> 
> M



I think its also due to the lower protein levels in the mead - there is nothing to stabilise the foam so the bubbles form and burst without forming a big frothy krausen. Like the difference between pouring a sparling wine or soda water compared to a beer.

Cheers
Dave


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## Airgead (31/1/10)

Airgead said:


> 30/1 1.020


31/1 1.014 Slowing down but still going strong


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## Airgead (2/2/10)

Airgead said:


> 31/1 1.014 Slowing down but still going strong


Was out last night so no reading but tonight 2/2 1.004

Nearly there.


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## Airgead (3/2/10)

Airgead said:


> Was out last night so no reading but tonight 2/2 1.004
> 
> Nearly there.



3/2 1.002

Had a little taste. Not bad at all. Very strong flavour from the honey. Will probably need some serious age or blending with something milder but certainly potential for good things.


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## Airgead (5/2/10)

Airgead said:


> 3/2 1.002
> 
> Had a little taste. Not bad at all. Very strong flavour from the honey. Will probably need some serious age or blending with something milder but certainly potential for good things.



5/2 down to 1.001 ish.


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## Airgead (10/2/10)

Airgead said:


> 5/2 down to 1.001 ish.


9/2 - 1.000

Still going a little. I'm guessing it will finish at 0.996.

Strting to drop clear. Lovely dark almost sherry colour from the mahogany honey.


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