# Ale! What is it?



## Kazbek (7/2/16)

Hello everybody,
Could you please help me to understand what sorts of beer we can call Ale?
I grew up in Russia and what we usually call Ale it is very bitter and usually strong sort of beer with no sweet notes at all.
What would be a proper definition for Ale?


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## mxd (7/2/16)

the yeast used


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## WhiteLomu (7/2/16)

Big generalisations here;
Bottom fermenting yeast for lager at cooler temps compared to top fermenting for ale at warmer temps.
No yeast derived flavours for lagers, yeast derived flavours important in many ale styles.
Cheers


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## nosco (7/2/16)

Different ales can be like chalk and cheese. No insult meant but the link is a good start (theres probably alot better sites).They left a few out though. Get onto a good home brew store web site and check out the types of liquid yeast and check out the BJCP site for a run down on styles.


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## nosco (7/2/16)

Oops link would help
http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/types-of-ales.html


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## Kazbek (11/2/16)

Guys, please forgive me my stupidity.
However, I still have an impression that there are wider variety of types of beers rather than just Ales and Lagers.
For example, there are 6 different types of cultures which should be used to prepare a proper Belgian Lambic:

Enteric bacteria
Kloeckera apiculata
Saccharomyces species
Lactic acid bacteria
Brettanomyces yeast
Oxidative yeasts
From my perspective, lambic can't be classified as a pure Ale or Lager.
What do you think guys?


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## pablo_h (11/2/16)

You're correct.
Not every beer is and ale or a lager.
Ales use strains of a certain species of yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Lagers use strains of a different certain species of yeast, Saccharomyces uvarum.
There's many ways to make beer, these are just the two common ones, top fermenting ale yeasts, or bottom fermenting lager yeasts.

I often wonder in the past how often the beer was strictly an ale or lager.
Brett and bacteria are everywhere, and even in this modern age where we have starsan (made to kill lactobacillus and aceterbactor), starsan doesn't harm yeast much. The maker says don't fear the foam, I've read articles where a known bacteria infected starter was sprayed, it killed all the bacteria and the yeast lived on after a short recovery. So I wonder how good it is against brett anyway.


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## Coodgee (11/2/16)

Try this: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ale


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## nosco (12/2/16)

Please forgive my stupidity Kazbek. I have been learned 


* Enteric bacteria
* Kloeckera apiculata
* Saccharomyces species
* Lactic acid bacteria
* Brettanomyces yeast
* Oxidative yeasts

I've heard of 3 of them but now I'm gonna have to look up the rest. Will the Googling ever end!?

Edit: I've heard of bacteria too


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## nosco (12/2/16)

Now I'm gonna have to buy the yeast book that I won't have time to read


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## nosco (12/2/16)

**** you very much for that excellent link Coodgee. I was all G'd up for some well informed reading lol


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## Coodgee (12/2/16)

nosco said:


> **** you very much for that excellent link Coodgee. I was all G'd up for some well informed reading lol


sorry I've just always wanted to do that


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

Traditionally Ale was brewed without hops wasn't it? Beer used hops.


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## MastersBrewery (5/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Traditionally Ale was brewed without hops wasn't it? Beer used hops.


hops have been in ales for quite sometime but yes before hops were discovered other herbs etc were used as bittering agents to balance the flavours. Heather is one that comes to mind.


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## thylacine (5/6/16)

"Periodic Table Of Beer Styles":

http://visual.ly/beers-periodic-table


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> hops have been in ales for quite sometime but yes before hops were discovered other herbs etc were used as bittering agents to balance the flavours. Heather is one that comes to mind.


hops were known about, but not used in Ales.


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## Bribie G (6/6/16)

So what are you brewing at the moment? As a new contributor to the forum we'd be interested to know what you are doing in the brauhaus so we can possibly help / learn with you as a member.


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## barls (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> hops were known about, but not used in Ales.


i think you are talking about the original definition. it has changed significantly since then
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ale


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Yes the original definition of an Ale was that was without hops.


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## barls (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Yes the original definition of an Ale was that was without hops.


but we aren't talking the original definition from over 400 years ago we are talking the current definition. 
so a warm fermented beer based on grain with hops in the boil. would be correct


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

It is a matter of opinion, some think that the original definition should be upheld.


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## barls (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> It is a matter of opinion, some think that the original definition should be upheld.


well good for you and good luck brewing with things that have now found to be more toxic to the human body than whats currently in use.
you aren't an engineer are you?


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Anything to do with style is a matter of opinion. MC hammer parachute pants for example 
There are many bittering agents that are not hops and non-toxic.


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## Bribie G (6/6/16)

Is that you Darren?


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## GalBrew (6/6/16)

The newnewDarren??


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## Bribie G (6/6/16)

Much pishab


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## jphowman (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Anything to do with style is a matter of opinion. MC hammer parachute pants for example
> There are many bittering agents that are not hops and non-toxic.


You and TimT should talk


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## manticle (7/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> It is a matter of opinion, some think that the original definition should be upheld.


For opinion to carry weight rather than be airy bluster, it needs something more than 'well that's what I think, so nah'.

You are correct in that the historical differentiation between ale and beer was hops vs other bittering herbs but it's not so relevant to current definitions. History is not stagnant.
It evolves.

MC hammer pants? Long bow drawn with no arrow.


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Traditionally Ale was brewed without hops wasn't it? Beer used hops.


isn't that what i said to begin with?


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## Yob (7/6/16)

Yup, then everybody M over on into the current age and definitions


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## MHB (7/6/16)

Actually that's a "middle aged" definition. the two words come from different language roots and were imported into English with one of the many invasions of Britain.
Some time around Henry VIII the distinction between the older unhopped and the newer hopped beers was needed and a word with a Norse origin and one with a Latin root was picked for the job.
There was no original definition that had any real meaning, except when applied in retrospect.
Mark


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

i read it is from the word 'Alu' which meant unhopped malt liquor.

The OP asked what an 'Ale was so it is beneficial to provide a historical context.

This is a good article:

http://zythophile.co.uk/tag/linguistics/


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