# Real estate want me to remove my electric brewery



## evanmilton (27/2/15)

I rent an apartment in Nsw and the real estate wants me to remove my all grain electric brewery setup (Kal copy) from my garage . They got an electrician over to check it out and he gave it the all clear. 
The real estate still claims a safety issue. Can they make me move it, I don't think they can??
My concern is they won't renew my lease if I don't cooperate.

It taken a year to build so I'm pretty disappointed about the whole affair.

Any thoughts out there?

Boxy


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## slcmorro (27/2/15)

If it's signed off by an electrician (properly), I can't see how they can ask you to move it or even force you to.

They can't legally not renew your lease on the premise of you not removing it if it's deemed safe, however they can make up some other bullshit reason - You could go to VCAT (not sure what the NSW equivalent is) if you're concerned.


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## verysupple (27/2/15)

You said you rent an apartment and keep your brewery in the garage. Is it a shared garage? Maybe they're just not happy that it's in a shared space. I know the old bitties in my building would _hate_ it if I put my brewing gear in our garage (even though there's a storage area for everyone to use...that nobody uses).


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## mxd (27/2/15)

if it's garage who pays the electricity ? Body corp ?


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## pat_00 (27/2/15)

Kill all real estate agents. It's the only solution really.

But seriously, I feel for ya. They can be pricks. Whatever you do, make sure all correspondence regarding this is in writing.


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## Tahoose (27/2/15)

I'd say if you have an electrical safety certificate and it's not hard wired into the wall (assuming plugs) then you are being fair and reasonable. 

Really there would be as much risk in operating a BBQ or a slow cooker. People amaze me every day, in good and bad ways.


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## TimT (27/2/15)

http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag137/nelsonmonty/nope_zpsbcc14df0.gif


Is the NSW equivalent of VCAT the Administrative Decisions Tribunal? Not sure.

It sounds bloody pigheaded of them. Hope you get it sorted.


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## Weizguy (27/2/15)

I suggest you call in to the Real Estate agent to discuss and see if you can come to a suitable compromise.
If they refuse to discuss, I would mention discrimination and/or the Rent Board (or what they are called now).
Be aware that many statutory organisations are toothless tigers and you might be best to decide if they will help or hinder your situation.

Generally, the first visit to a solicitor costs nothing, and that would be my next step, if the real estate people refuse to negotiate.

Maybe remove it from the garage. Maybe into the apartment?


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## indica86 (27/2/15)

I ******* hated renting. Makes you feel like a scumbag the way those fuckers treat you.

Anyway you can contact the owner? Or ask them to?


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## spog (27/2/15)

Request a written statement from the agent that clearly states the reason/reasons why.
Make this request in writing yourself asking for a reply in kind,this creates a paper trail that can be used if all goes pear shaped .
I can't think of any reason this is happening but I'm no lawyer.
Having a sparky give it the nod is already a tick in the box for you.
Other than the above tell em to **** off,otherwise they'll want your beer fridge next,I reckon the agent may be.........


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## 1974Alby (27/2/15)

move it to a mate's place for inspection day...then bring it back the next day.


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## fletcher (27/2/15)

+1 for the paper trail and asking why it should be removed. they need to give you the exact reasons why, whether it be developmental or safety concerned, and if it doesn't fit into either, then you're completely well within your rights. i ******* HATE real estate agents.


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## evanmilton (27/2/15)

It's not a shared space, it's my own lockup.
I'm going to call the real estate again today and ask nicely for them to reconsider. I don't think they have a leg to stand on with making me remove it but I just know that they can make up any reason to boot me out when my lease runs out in a couple of months. 

Here's a pick of some of the hard work if anyone's interested .


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## Kingmaa (27/2/15)

If it is home wired they are well within their rights unless you have it signed off by a licensed sparky. If you have an electrical safety certificate it's just another appliance and they would have to prove that it was damaging the property in some way. You need the certificate though, not just a 'yep all good mate,

from the landlord side of the fence, a home wired, non certified appliance is invalidating their building insurance and your contents insurance. Now they know about it they have to do something...


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## verysupple (27/2/15)

Hang on, in the OP you said _they_ got a sparky over to check it, he said it was all good and then they still claim it's unsafe? Why did they bother getting a sparky in? 

I agree with Kingmaa, if the sparky didn't give you a safety certificate before, get one now, and at least their reasoning based on safety goes out the window.


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## Major Arcana (27/2/15)

Damn thats a nice setup mate!! Hope you get the situation rectified, i hate those bastards!


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## TimT (27/2/15)

Good luck on the phone call, I'd write down a plan for the conversation just in case... find out the reasons _why _they want it taken out, offer any compromises you can, if possible even get *another* sparky in to check it all out and make sure you get a certificate - that way if they're completely pigheaded and want to take it all the way to court you'll have a much stronger case.


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## Weizguy (27/2/15)

Call out the hunters from A Current Affair, before you get turfed. Save your documentation for them to present on television.

However, that may earn you a permanent blot as a renter.


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## gap (27/2/15)

Why don't you go and get correct advice form somebody who is qualified
to give you advice.


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## evanmilton (27/2/15)

@Very supple , yeah their sparky came this morning and said it was all sweet as its a portable system, not house wired. He didn't test anything, but I can get a certificate of a mate if I need one. He was surprised they wanted it gone and hopefully he puts in a good word for me.. Haven't heard back from the real estate yet though and there not answering my calls, so I'm not sure if they will still claim a safety issue, they will probably change it to a strata issue. 

Anyway I'll update on how things eventuate.


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## goomboogo (27/2/15)

How much do you want for your complete set-up? Only joking, I hope it turns out well for you.


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## HBHB (27/2/15)

For the guys saying they hate real estate agents, maybe rethink it to "I hate the way some real estate property managers are towards tennants". Property managers are there to take money, protect the property of their client and to make arrangements for repairs and maintenance. No more, no less. No need to hate the person, just their actions. They are, after all trying to look after their clients $300-400,000 property which could well be their only fall back in retirement.

No sense in getting wound up, bitter and twisted just yet. 

Take a breath.

That said, it sounds like a case of they have no idea. A Property Manager can't stop you from having a small scale brewery in a garage if it's not doing damage or at risk of doing damage to the property. So....good ventilation (Steam damage) , no dodgy plumbing add-ons, no stains anywhere, no holes in the walls, no risk of a fire, no wiring changes etc should not present any issues for either the PM or the owner if they understand the situation and understand that home breweries are perfectly legal.

Your best bet would be to sit down and draft up a carefully worded, non inflammatory letter, explaining that there are none of these issues (above) and include pics of it all. Then politely request the property manager to pass this on to and seek instruction from the owners of the property and if they still knock it back, then ask under which of the general lease conditions they are telling you to remove it under....remember "polite". Polite will always get you further.

As a landlord, personally I couldn't give a rats arse if a tenant ran a brewery that was well built and didn't cause damage to the property and I think most owners are the same. In fact one of them does. I think it'll come down to the PM not understanding what they are looking at.


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## TheWiggman (27/2/15)

Bloke here at work mentioned maybe they think it is illegal. Have they got you confused with a distiller? I'd clarify you are making beer, a perfectly legal hobby for home consumption. When most people think of home brew they think of plastic fermenters, tins and exploding bottles.


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## Pogierob (27/2/15)

Take them in a couple of bottles and wink saying? " after you taste this, I'll assume this little issue we have to be sorted "


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## mckenry (27/2/15)

Mate,
Move to Bowral! I have a house that I rent and self manage, which backs onto my own residence. (2 seperate titles) Monster shed between us. Both our rigs can live in there.

Pros:
No real estate Agents.
Land lord is pro brewing
No electricity costs to you
Bulk buys
Pool


Cons:
I may drink your beer when you're not looking.
I may swin nude in your pool.
I may do both the above at the same time


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## mofox1 (27/2/15)

Invite the owner around for a beer


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## pcmfisher (27/2/15)

You have pointed out it is not a meth lab?


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## Kergman (27/2/15)

Dam shame Boxy. The last Hef that came out of that system was winner. Might have to move 1km up the hill to Kerg's garage.


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## evanmilton (27/2/15)

Owner probably doesn't like beer, he's more of the Cosmopolitan type


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## evanmilton (27/2/15)

Kergman, the chalet will be the perfect destination for it should push come to shove. The hef is a winner.
Box


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## Dae Tripper (27/2/15)

In NSW NCAT will deal with it. Was there recently and saw some realestate agents get owned. So have good documents, prove safe and legal and your sweet bro.


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## ekul (27/2/15)

I've had issues with real estate agents a few times, the best thing to do is to only contact them through email for anything, that way you've got everything they said.



Last real estate I had to break the lease because of a serious mould infestation that i couldnt get rid of (was there when i moved in but a long spell of wet weather sent it crazy). Instead of trying to rent the house out they decided to renovate it instead. The tricky bastards still put an ad up on the net so it looked like they were meeting their responsibilities (they HAVE to rent it out asap at the same price) but they had no intention on renting it out till my lease ended.

I sent my wife in with a hidden camera for an inspection and they told her that it wouldnt be available till after the renovations were finished, which would be in feb (which is when i would have to stop paying money if noone moved in). Not to mention they were knocking down walls and taking paint of every surface so noone could have moved in anyway.

Showed them the video and they got really upset for being so "undehanded". I threatened to take them to every governement body that has anything to do with real estate agents including their head office.

They tried to take my bond as well for cleaning costs even though i'd paid a bond cleaner AND as soon as I moved out they ripped down all the walls and ceilings anyway.

As they didnt have a leg to stand on they gave me back my bond and the rent "owed" (i stopped paying rent when i realised they were doing renos) but i didnt get the 6 weeks of rent that i'd already paid. Really wish i'd taken them to court over it but it was exhausting even getting the bond back.

The current real estate (who has been great ) tried to pull a sneaky on me the other day for the water bill. Legally I dont have to pay it but I agree with paying what we use so dont have a problem. Our first water bill inlcuded a month whilst we werent there and when we moved in we had to get a heap of taps fixed. After a small argument she agreed to let me just pay for the time i was actually living here.

I dont really trust real estate agents. They work solely for the house owner and never the other way round.


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## mckenry (27/2/15)

ekul said:


> I dont really trust real estate agents. They work solely for the house owner and never the other way round.


I agree with everything you said that I removed (for ease of reading only)

Real estate Agents have to work for their landlords. Thats who pays them to do their job. Anyway, we're talking about property managers, not necessairly real estate agents, although they can be both.
For the tenants rights, there is another body. Cant remember them right now, but tenants.org.au has everything you'll ever need.

So, speaking from the other side of the rent market, I now self manage, because the agents werent doing what I was paying them for. Sometimes they just work for themselves........


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## stm (27/2/15)

ekul said:


> They work solely for the house owner and never the other way round.


Well, that's the point isn't it? I own a small investment property and I wouldn't appreciate it if my agent was working for the tenant on my coin. He is there to protect my investment for my retirement.

Having said that, my agent is very efficient but also fair to the tenant. Any problems, they raise quickly with me and then we get them fixed quickly because it is in my interest to have a happy tenant. I think most agents (and owners) are like that.


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## TimT (27/2/15)

_For the guys saying they hate real estate agents, maybe rethink it to "I hate the way some real estate property managers are towards tennants"._

Yeah, the Baron had a flat for a while and the real estate guys were pretty dickish to the tenants. They were happy when she bought the flat off them and when she sold it again, but otherwise, really dumb - everytime a tenant got a problem the Baron would try to contact them and it's amazing how long they seemed to be 'in a meeting' or 'not available'.... Anyway, as they suggest above, be polite and reasonable and have a plan for negotiating with them.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/2/15)

Evan. 

Real estate agents are easy to deal with. First thing your going to need to do is buy an F100. Don't ask, just buy it. The shitier the better. Then go and steal a pushbike and put that in the back of the F100. Once you have done this you may need to find a few blokes who ride Harley Davidsons. They will be easy to spot as they will be the ones holding the tin of Brasso and a rag whilst standing around a bike. Sensibly approach said motorcycle rider and offer him a Winnie Red and a VB. once he accepts your gift, politely ask him where could you find a machine that can move very small items very quickly. Follow his advice in a quiet and sensible manner.

Once you have got everything together and you have checked that the pushbike tyres are pumped up, jump in the old F100 and go for a drive. If you happen to go past the real estate office press the pedal under your right foot harder and slightly veer towords the real estate office. Once you have smashed thru the front window and planted the front bumper firmly on the the front counter, grab the device you got earlier from the bike polisher and start rampantly shooting at things as you proceed to the property managers. Once in there calmly and politely tell them that the brewery is staying and there is no need to get all upset and uptight.

On your way out, grab the pushbike, since the F100 is now completely fucked, and ride to the pub and have a few de-briefing beers


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## TheWiggman (27/2/15)

Holy shit Stu, how long have you been sitting on that? :lol:


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## verysupple (27/2/15)

Getting a bit :icon_offtopic:



stm said:


> Any problems, they raise quickly with me and then we get them fixed quickly because it is in my interest to have a happy tenant. I think most agents (and owners) are like that.


My property manager certainly isn't like that. I'm the tenant, and both the owner and I have tried to get things done that either took many months longer than it should or didn't happen at all. E.g. We noticed what looked like water damage to the hall way wall that has the hot water unit on the other side. It turned out it was leaking slowly and the plumber advised the property manager that it needed to be replaced ASAP because "she's gonna blow any day now". Months later nothing had happened and it blew. It flooded the entire apartment and leaked through to next door as well.

My parents had a house they were renting out through a property manager and, again, things took far longer than they should (if they happened at all). E.g. the hot water unit was leaking quite badly (what is it with my family and hot water units?) so the tenants told the property manager who then rang mum. Mum said to get it replaced with a new one of equal capacity and preferably the same brand ASAP. Weeks later mum rang the property manager to ask why they hadn't been sent a bill. She wasn't happy when she found out the hot water unit still hadn't been done. It then took three more phone calls to the property manager and actually organising the plumber herself to get it done.

I think you got lucky with your property manager.


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## spog (27/2/15)

Thanks for the Friday laugh !


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## spog (27/2/15)

evanmilton said:


> I rent an apartment in Nsw and the real estate wants me to remove my all grain electric brewery setup (Kal copy) from my garage . They got an electrician over to check it out and he gave it the all clear.
> The real estate still claims a safety issue. Can they make me move it, I don't think they can??
> My concern is they won't renew my lease if I don't cooperate.
> It taken a year to build so I'm pretty disappointed about the whole affair.
> ...


"A safety issue " ,is the agent happy to allow you to keep a can of mower fuel in the lockup,a bottle of turps or metho a tin of oil based paint etc.... Could be a new tenant willing to pay higher rent is sniffing around . Dunno, but this topic has got my interest,we got screwed around years ago trying to rent a house while I built ours,the crap we were told by 2 agents was, as I later discovered very underhanded and illegal .


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## evanmilton (27/2/15)

Polite letter to the agent has been sent. Going home to drink some beer.
Box


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## yum beer (27/2/15)

Real Estate Tribunal is the body you need to deal with, they are part of Fair Trading and they hate fuckwit property managers.

AS a renter you have the same right to use of property as an owner.

As long as you are doing nothing illegal or damaging the property, then there is nothing they can do.

Ask what clause of the lease you are in breach of, I doubt they can find one.

If they can then negotiate. If all else fails Tribunal is your only way.

Unfortunately some property managers think they hold immense power because they can black list you, as such, keep your cool and don't piss them off.

I think you will find its going to be a misunderstanding of what it is you a re doing....maybe worth locating the reference to home brewing in law, you can find that if you search for alcohol excise, beer excise or some such shit, it states in the excise rules that home brewing is legal in Australia.


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## brzt6060 (27/2/15)

If you want to come live in WA I have a few rentals you are welcome to live in and have that brew rig in...


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## TheBigD (27/2/15)

id hazard a guess that your getting complaints from your neighbours on brew days, you may be impacting on your neighbours with smells etc, if your a renter and upsetting owners your in for a tough fight. good luck and nice set up by the way.


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## Pogierob (27/2/15)

Who could complain about that malty malty goodness finished off by the delectable aroma of infused hops..


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## TheBigD (27/2/15)

Rob.P said:


> Who could complain about that malty malty goodness finished off by the delectable aroma of infused hops..


women!


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## seamad (27/2/15)

TheBigD said:


> women!


not mine, sounds like reasonable grounds for a trade-in h34r:

How many separate circuits and what amperage are they in your garage, electric rigs require a fair bit of juice ?


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## TheBigD (27/2/15)

seamad said:


> not mine, sounds like reasonable grounds for a trade-in h34r:
> 
> How many separate circuits and what amperage are they in your garage, electric rigs require a fair bit of juice ?


Problem is when you trade in the Mrs the kids and house go with them, then you"ll find me posting about my real estate agent complaining about my brewery in my rental garage


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## BJB (27/2/15)

TheBigD said:


> id hazard a guess that your getting complaints from your neighbours on brew days, you may be impacting on your neighbours with smells etc, if your a renter and upsetting owners your in for a tough fight. good luck and nice set up by the way.



My thoughts exactly.


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## Grainer (27/2/15)

If you have troubles I can offer to store it at my place for free permanently :super:


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## evanmilton (27/2/15)

some funny business from the neighbors is exactly what I first thought when they asked to look in the garage.


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## BrosysBrews (27/2/15)

I give my landlord a longneck when he comes to do a house inspection, makes him pretty happy about all the brew kit and on top of that normally makes him think twice about rasising my rent


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## JDW81 (27/2/15)

TheBigD said:


> id hazard a guess that your getting complaints from your neighbours on brew days


I lived in a apartment block for years and used to brew on the balcony. One of the neighbours called the coppers cause they thought I was up to no good. The coppers turned up, laughed at the reason they'd been called and then spent the next 30 minutes talking about brewing and how to get into it.

Neighbours can be as bad/worse than property managers if they are nosy busy-bodies who are more concerned with the affairs of others than minding their own freakin business.

JD


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## Camo6 (27/2/15)

evanmilton said:


> some funny business from the neighbors is exactly what I first thought when they asked to look in the garage.


I'd put money on it. Do you brew with the garage door open and are there elderly ladies (to label them politely) in the neighbouring apartments? When we owned a unit I found the nosy old bitches elderly ladies next door knew everything that was going on. They were also the only ones to turn up to body corporate meetings and make unnecessary complaints. History repeats and after brewing for a couple of years in the new house my wife found two of our neighbours in our backyard inspecting my shed when they thought we weren't home. Turns out the demented hag elderly lady over the back fence told them my dog was locked in my little garden shed, the one with the new roof whirligig and strange equipment. I wished I'd been there to tell them they'd stumbled onto a biker meth lab and would need to climb into the boot of my car.

Good luck with your letter and argument. If anything, I'd take the controller off the wall so they can't argue you've mounted any electrical equipment.

Awesome setup too mate. Well done.


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## indica86 (27/2/15)

Start cooking meth and ask the agent if that smells better.


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## antiphile (27/2/15)

As a first port of call, I'd suggest you contact the advocate for tenants/renters in NSW to find your rights and get free advice before pushing it too far or getting legal representation etc. May I suggest the organisation called Tenants NSW. At least that way you'll know your legal rights.

Cheers


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## MAX POWER (27/2/15)

I haven't read the entire thread, but I live in an apartment (owner/occupier) and we constantly get notifications/warnings from the body corp about anything other than vehicles in the garage. Not just us either, but the entire building. 

Pretty much everything is deemed to be a fire hazard. 

My guess would be that that would be the crux of their safety issue.

My body corp advised I could store shit in a fire rated box and they'd have no issues.


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## Dunkelbrau (27/2/15)

TheBigD said:


> id hazard a guess that your getting complaints from your neighbours on brew days, you may be impacting on your neighbours with smells etc, if your a renter and upsetting owners your in for a tough fight. good luck and nice set up by the way.


Does that mean if I like to eat some funky stinky meat cooked on my BBQ that I can't have a BBQ in a rental with shit neighbours?


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## Robbo2234 (27/2/15)

TimT said:


> http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag137/nelsonmonty/nope_zpsbcc14df0.gif
> 
> 
> Is the NSW equivalent of VCAT the Administrative Decisions Tribunal? Not sure.
> ...



Holy crap man you have some crazy stuff in your photo bucket account! Like..




Wtf is that?


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## yankinoz (27/2/15)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I suggest you call in to the Real Estate agent to discuss and see if you can come to a suitable compromise.
> If they refuse to discuss, I would mention discrimination and/or the Rent Board (or what they are called now).
> Be aware that many statutory organisations are toothless tigers and you might be best to decide if they will help or hinder your situation.
> 
> ...


Second all that. Even if you end up paying for a solicitor, it beats eviction or, worse, not brewing.

There's no conflict of interest on my part. I am not a solicitor, barrister or law student and in fact know numerous lawyer jokes.


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## huez (27/2/15)

I'm lucky enough that out of the 12 units in my block only 2 own and live here, one is a deaf lady who's dad used to brew and the other is an older guy who brews kit beers in a storage room directly outside my garage. I haven't had a single complaint in a year.

BUT my lease does state that my garage is to be used for STORAGE only, if the real estate did get wind of me brewing in there i can guarantee i'd be forced to move it. I'd be going over your lease to see if something like that is in there.

To say they work for the property owner is a joke though, after 5 rental places i can safely say they are not for the owner or the tenant. Never had an inspection until i'm moving out and always weeks to get something fixed. Rental agents all have a hate on because they aren't in sales, which is where the money is that they are all after.


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## Camo6 (27/2/15)

Sounds like a case of "You can take the real estate agent out of commission housing but you can't take the commission agent out of real estate housing?"


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## TimT (27/2/15)

_Holy crap man you have some crazy stuff in your photo bucket account! Like..




Wtf is that?_

Still works on my computer Robbo. Not my photobucket as you may have guessed.... Try this.


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## lmccrone (27/2/15)

So I cant be bothered reading all the posts so this may have already been suggested but try the tennent's union

http://www.tenants.org.au/

Its a free service that's funded with the interest that's earned on your bond (least that's the way it works in Vic)

Good luck


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## Burt de Ernie (27/2/15)

> @Very supple , yeah their sparky came this morning and said it was all sweet as its a portable system, not house wired. He didn't test anything, but I can get a certificate of a mate if I need one. He was surprised they wanted it gone and hopefully he puts in a good word for me.. Haven't heard back from the real estate yet though and there not answering my calls, so I'm not sure if they will still claim a safety issue, they will probably change it to a strata issue.
> 
> Anyway I'll update on how things eventuate.


LOL...I hardly think that a TAFE qualified electrical contractor is qualified to issue a certificate of compliance on a home made electrical appliance.

FYI. The limit of your average electricians certification is limited to the BCA and AS3000. Appliances do not fall into this category and there is a national approval scheme I believe.

I am of the mind that the real estate has a case purely because your brewery has no certificate under a national or state approval scheme.


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## Camo6 (27/2/15)

Would this mean you couldn't keep an unregistered / unroadworthy vehicle in the garage? If so, it goes to show what a joke our laws are becoming. I'll admit we live in a lucky country but maybe luck has nothing to do with it.


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## brad81 (27/2/15)

Burt de Ernie said:


> LOL...I hardly think that a TAFE qualified electrical contractor is qualified to issue a certificate of compliance on a home made electrical appliance.
> 
> FYI. The limit of your average electricians certification is limited to the BCA and AS3000. Appliances do not fall into this category and there is a national approval scheme I believe.
> 
> I am of the mind that the real estate has a case purely because your brewery has no certificate under a national or state approval scheme.


Does this also mean a Property Manager has the qualifications/reasoning to question EVERY electrical appliance on the property? Pretty sure they graduated from blow jobs and typing...


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## Burt de Ernie (27/2/15)

> Pretty sure they graduated from blow jobs and typing...


I agree with this....

But Let face it...there not a brewer here that wont admire your brewery but to the onlooker it may as well be a bomb.

If it were my investment I would be clamping down and restricting you as best I can within the law. Nothing against you but investment protection is first and foremost.

Lets say for some silly reason a fire breaks out, an unapproved appliance may be enough justification for an insurance company not to pay out on a policy.....just saying.


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## spog (27/2/15)

seamad said:


> not mine, sounds like reasonable grounds for a trade-in h34r:
> 
> How many separate circuits and what amperage are they in your garage, electric rigs require a fair bit of juice ?


Respectfully ,nah scrub that,a non issue/claim ( on the agent). Has bugger all to do with the issue.
No fault,no blame,and the OP is not IMHO not at fault in any way.....
Cheers to you Seamad.


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## spog (27/2/15)

huez said:


> I'm lucky enough that out of the 12 units in my block only 2 own and live here, one is a deaf lady who's dad used to brew and the other is an older guy who brews kit beers in a storage room directly outside my garage. I haven't had a single complaint in a year.
> 
> BUT my lease does state that my garage is to be used for STORAGE only, if the real estate did get wind of me brewing in there i can guarantee i'd be forced to move it. I'd be going over your lease to see if something like that is in there.
> 
> To say they work for the property owner is a joke though, after 5 rental places i can safely say they are not for the owner or the tenant. Never had an inspection until i'm moving out and always weeks to get something fixed. Rental agents all have a hate on because they aren't in sales, which is where the money is that they are all after.


Store your rig IN the lockup,but brew OUTSIDE the lock up ( take piccies) job done ,arse covered,oh and Mr Agent,what exactly is your LEGAL claim/complaint/ beef/issue with me !....please could have it in writing.....
DO NOT back down.
Yeah easy for me to say....but just saying.


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## MAX POWER (27/2/15)

Seriously, it sounds like an insurance issue. Nothing to do with the real estate agent. They just CBF with any hassle.

Body Corporate notifies owner there may be an issue with insurance due to fire hazard or whatever, owner notifies agent, agent notifies tenant. 

It's all ass covering.


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## spog (27/2/15)

Burt de Ernie said:


> I agree with this....But Let face it...there not a brewer here that wont admire your brewery but to the onlooker it may as well be a bomb.If it were my investment I would be clamping down and restricting you as best I can within the law. Nothing against you but investment protection is first and foremost.Lets say for some silly reason a fire breaks out, an unapproved appliance may be enough justification for an insurance company not to pay out on a policy.....just saying.


Hmm, gets to the arguement of what should or should not be tested and tagged for arse covering purposes.
The brewing rig,being a non commercial ,non business tool/ implement or device is not required by law to be tested blah blah( south Oz )and is there fore classified as a home appliance ,so covered under home and contents insurance....if contracted/paid for...etc.....


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## Burt de Ernie (27/2/15)

spog said:


> Hmm, gets to the arguement of what should or should not be tested and tagged for arse covering purposes.
> The brewing rig,being a non commercial ,non business tool/ implement or device is not required by law to be tested blah blah( south Oz )and is there fore classified as a home appliance ,so covered under home and contents insurance....if contracted/paid for...etc.....


Spog....my comments have nothing to do with testing or test tags. I agree with you that home appliance are not required to be tested and tagged which any retarded TAFE qualified sparky can do if he has completed tagging course.

My comments are in relation to a appliance approval schemes which is totally different to a test and tag situation.

See link to fair trading site
http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Businesses/Product_safety/Electrical_articles/Safe_electrical_goods.page


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## Burt de Ernie (28/2/15)

Camo6 said:


> Would this mean you couldn't keep an unregistered / unroadworthy vehicle in the garage? If so, it goes to show what a joke our laws are becoming. I'll admit we live in a lucky country but maybe luck has nothing to do with it.


Well....imagine the shit standard of Chinese electrical products that would be imported if this law wasn't around. Thank Christ someone with brains had the foresight to introduce it.

It has probably saved the life of someone you know.


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## wynnum1 (28/2/15)

Brewing beer in a garage at a block of units would breach planning laws and fire safety and the agent has a duty of care under workplace health and safety laws .Does the garage have a fire alarm that could be activated by brewing .Smoke detector can be activated and in units if fire brigade is automatically called out you get a large bill.
Move the brewery to the kitchen where its legal and treat like a meth lab and hide when inspected .


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## Burt de Ernie (28/2/15)

> Brewing beer in a garage at a block of units would breach planning laws and fire safety and the agent has a duty of care under workplace health and safety laws .Does the garage have a fire alarm that could be activated by brewing .Smoke detector can be activated and in units if fire brigade is automatically called out you get a large bill.
> Move the brewery to the kitchen where its legal and treat like a meth lab and hide when inspected .


No planning laws regulate non-commercial brewing


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## evanmilton (28/2/15)

If I have to move it, does anyone have a good spot for it near Manly?


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## HBHB (28/2/15)

wynnum1 said:


> Brewing beer in a garage at a block of units would breach planning laws and fire safety and the agent has a duty of care under workplace health and safety laws .


Private residence mate.....nothing to do with WH&S

Electric brewery, gas BBQ......want to hazard a guess which one will burn first?


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## wynnum1 (28/2/15)

Not private residence in the garage when inspected workplace of the person doing the inspection .Owner of building has a duty to protect the safety and amenity of residents .Brewing beer could effect other residents xxxx brewery in Milton Brisbane is protected by law from developments moving in and then complaining of the smell.


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## spog (28/2/15)

IMO, a block of flats is private residence,the private residence of the tenants .
Covered by the residential tenants act,therefore not a commercial or industrial or business concern.
I agree with HBHB comments.


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## elcarter (28/2/15)

So I have to set up a safety system within my residence, including MSDS of all chemicals stored on the property in approved fire lockers and conduct a safety brief where I state where the emergency evacuation point is? Who the fire warden will be, the contractors obligation to adhere to my safety policy and procedures or be kicked off sight or worse fined.

I can imagine what would happen when I do this to any contractor or meter reader comes to my house.

Including a police officer or ambulance attendee if my party gets out of hand?

Last builder I was helping with the construction of the man cave got a splinter and I failed to report it to comcare... in-fact I don't have a hazard reporting system in place.....shit.

I love how this thread has meandered all its way to this lunacy.


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## Burt de Ernie (28/2/15)

wynnum1 said:


> Not private residence in the garage when inspected workplace of the person doing the inspection .Owner of building has a duty to protect the safety and amenity of residents .Brewing beer could effect other residents xxxx brewery in Milton Brisbane is protected by law from developments moving in and then complaining of the smell.


This is rubbish.....cooking indian food can affect other residents...should this be banned?

This has nothing to do with WHS.


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## Pogierob (28/2/15)

It has been mentioned in the thread. Simply ask for, in writing which part of the lease it breaks.


Edit. Making it legible.. Bloody phone autocorrect.


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## marksy (28/2/15)

In the workplace all electrical items must be tagged at tested and display this tag on the appliance or lead. I`m not sure how it works for homes, renting and insurance wise. But one would assume that if it was an insurance issue or renting issue, all future tenants would have to have all electrical items tagged and tested before being allowed to use them in the to be rented property, likewise with insurance. 

Just pay for a qualified electrician to come over and sign off on all the wiring and tag the machine.


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/2/15)

You dont need tagging if appliances are used in a private residence


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## elcarter (28/2/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You dont need tagging if appliances are used in a private residence


Wait get out of here!

Is that why none of my stuff is tag tested when I buy it from a retailer in AUS?

Or no current affair programs with family's saying they lost it all because the insurer found out the faulty appliance was not test and tagged?


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/2/15)

I still reckon the F100 method would be far better at getting the point across than some stupid letter or email.


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## TheWiggman (28/2/15)

TheWiggman said:


> Bloke here at work mentioned maybe they think it is illegal. Have they got you confused with a distiller? I'd clarify you are making beer, a perfectly legal hobby for home consumption. When most people think of home brew they think of plastic fermenters, tins and exploding bottles.


That's right I'm quoting myself. In case you missed it.


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## lmccrone (28/2/15)

From the tenant union of NSW

During your tenancy
*Your rights:*

to be given rent receipts if you pay in person or by cheque
to have exclusive use and quiet enjoyment of the premises
to have reasonable safety and security
to have necessary repairs carried out in a reasonable time
to be given notice when the landlord wants to visit. You should get 2 days notice for access to do repairs unless they are urgent repairs and 7 days notice before an inspection
to be given 60 days written notice of a rent increase. You can challenge a rent increase but you must apply to the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal within 30 days of receiving the notice.
*Remember your responsibilities:*

to pay rent on time
to care for the premises
to report the need for any repairs or maintenance
to pay utility bills
not to alter or make additions without the landlord’s written permission
not to change any locks without the landlord’s written permission
not to interfere with the peace, comfort or privacy of neighbours
not to use the premises for illegal purposes
to ask the landlord’s written permission before you make any changes to tenancy arrangements, for example sub-letting or transferring your tenancy to another person


I'm no lawyer but i would say that the right to furnish your rented house as you see fit would fall under your right to to have exclusive use and quiet enjoyment of the premises. Who the hell do these real estate people think they are telling you what you can and cant have in your house!

Hands down real estate agents are the worst sort of people


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## anthonyUK (28/2/15)

So does everyone require a MSDS for household chemicals such as bleach or caustic soda. There are many things in most homes much worse than anything we use for brewing. 
They are being arsey.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/15)

No, you do not need an MSDS for home


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## wynnum1 (1/3/15)

What came first the inspection or was there a complaint and then the inspection .Who owns the complex is there a body corporate .
Getting an electrician is not a cheap exercise .


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## marksy (1/3/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You dont need tagging if appliances are used in a private residence



My point exactly. If that was the issue, then everyone would have to do it. We don't have to tag our home appliances for renting or insurance purposes so we can rule that out.


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## Burt de Ernie (1/3/15)

> My point exactly. If that was the issue, then everyone would have to do it. We don't have to tag our home appliances for renting or insurance purposes so we can rule that out.


However the brewery/appliance does not have a legally approved mark.

Excerpt from the Fair Trading website


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/15)

Actually, the brewery ( or any peice of electrical equipment ) does not have to have an approved mark if you built it yourself. If you buy it ( or go to sell it ) it does, but not when you build it yourself. The brewery should be built according to AS300 ( or whatever the relevant standard ) but it is not mandatory. Although if it did cause a problem and burn the place down the insurance company may look at if it was built to the relevant standard

I know this because I actually rang NSW Dept of Fair trading and had a rather in depth discussion with a very knowledgable fellow about it. 

You cannot do any fixed witting like power point, but you can build and repair your own personal appliances.


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## spog (3/3/15)

Intestingly although OT,it is my understanding that in NSW if you have a leaking tap the only person who can ( legally ) repair it is a licensed plumber ?.
Yet here in South Aus,anyone can regardless.


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/3/15)

Its crazy

You can work on your own car and not have a clue what you are doing and its all legal. Grab a Superblycheap Cattledog and your an instant mechanic.


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## Fat Bastard (4/3/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Its crazy
> 
> You can work on your own car and not have a clue what you are doing and its all legal. Grab a Superblycheap Cattledog and your an instant mechanic.


What, so the powers that be don't frown upon people fitting superchargers onto old Morries? It must be ok because I saw a Morris J van fitted with a small block chev once.


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## TheWiggman (4/3/15)

As long as it complies with ADRs performing vehicle mods is legal. Like all things, it's complicated though because the ADRs are not as straighforward as many might think.
For example, you cannot willy-nilly perform a chassis repair because the repair procedure is a Code of Practice and referenced in the national vehicle Regulations i.e. law. Some repairs require and engineer's approval (engineer being degree qualified and/or appointed by the RTA in NSW as one) and thus doing them yourself is illegal.

I'm fortunate enough to work with the Central West RTA-appointed vehicle engineer and he has many interesting stories and circumstances. The basic premise is if you make a mod and it's not compliant, you're liable to get fined. Often he gets people coming to him saying things like "the cops canaried my car! I need you to give if the ok" and he rejects it because they haven't considered that their ute is classified as an NA vehicle and therefore their exhaust can't point out at 90° on the left side. Most of the time though the cops don't have a full understanding of ADRs, and just see a mod so give them a canary.

Back on topic I'm keen to hear this situation with the real estate get resolved.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/3/15)

Fat Bastard said:


> What, so the powers that be don't frown upon people fitting superchargers onto old Morries? It must be ok because I saw a Morris J van fitted with a small block chev once.


As long as you do things like upgrade brakes etc then yes. You do need an engineers cert though. And that the hard bit ( and $$$ )

And what Wiggman said

And the Rover V8 just happens to fit nicely


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## HBHB (4/3/15)

Insert SIGH moticon >HERE<

:chug:


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## wide eyed and legless (4/3/15)

It may be more about the insurance aspect, it could be a get out of jail card for the insurance company should anything happen.
The best thing to do is as has been said a few times above to negotiate with the real estate agent and find out if it is the insurers of the property they are worried about, and if so try to get get an insurance inspector from the same company to check it out and give the ok.


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## droid (4/3/15)

@ducatistu - ridiculous statement there bud about the f100, never have I heard so much nonsense











you'd be able to chuck it in reverse and drive the hell out of there man its an f-truck for crying out loud


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/3/15)

But if you cant, then it could be a long walk to the pub


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## droid (4/3/15)

yes, well - true


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/3/15)

Whenever I have gone to a real estates office, I have always been prepared, The f%$#$ well get ya.


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## Mardoo (5/3/15)

Heard back from the agent yet evanmilton?


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## evanmilton (6/3/15)

Not yet


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## verysupple (7/3/15)

Brewin' a batch this weekend while you can? 

Nah, just jesting. I hope you get to keep that sweet rig.


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## northernbrewer (31/3/15)

So did anything ever come of this? or did the real estate give up?


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## warra48 (31/3/15)

Burt de Ernie said:


> I agree with this....
> 
> But Let face it...there not a brewer here that wont admire your brewery but to the onlooker it may as well be a bomb.
> 
> ...


Can't happen. The breach is not that of the property owner, but that of the tenant, if there is one at all. The tenant is not a party to the insurance contract, so they can't be in breach of it. 
I'm speaking as a retired well qualified insurance claims manager.


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