# Fresh wort kits vs Can worts



## Lowlyf (13/7/15)

Hey guys,

I'm considering brewing with a fresh wort kit this weekend. Does anyone have much experience with these? You seem plenty of them at the home brew shop which tells me they must be pretty decent surely? Add some hops? Steep some grains? What do you think?


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## Rocker1986 (13/7/15)

Are they the FWKs that come in those 20 litre plastic jerries? Or are they the 5 litre concentrated ones or whatever they are? I've never actually used one although I suppose I make home made versions of the 20L ones by doing AG and no-chilling in plastic cubes, which I understand is basically how they are made anyway. These beers turn out excellently, if that's any help. B)


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## Danscraftbeer (13/7/15)

Never tried one but I understand the product. Its like canning in food production but not quite. Its cubing that has grown popular in home brewing. Its the same way I bottle my best chilli sauces to last a year plus and it works. Bottle it at flame out = close to 100c. More like ~90c then properly sealed will contain the contents for later usage.
If you are bound to extract brewing then its an interesting option.


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## manticle (13/7/15)

Good fwk kits just need a decent yeast and temp control.
Easier and better result than can kit, all else being equal - just more expensive.


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## Lowlyf (13/7/15)

Very interesting. Seeings as I have potentially stuffed my latest batch, and I am eager for some good results in home brewing, I may consider this.




Rocker1986 said:


> Are they the FWKs that come in those 20 litre plastic jerries? Or are they the 5 litre concentrated ones or whatever they are? I've never actually used one although I suppose I make home made versions of the 20L ones by doing AG and no-chilling in plastic cubes, which I understand is basically how they are made anyway. These beers turn out excellently, if that's any help. B)


Yeah the 20L ones!


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## panspermian (13/7/15)

Recently did a double choc stout fresh wort kit. 
I usually do partial mash but did this due busy lifestyle and I was running out of beer.....
I bottled it last week, so I'll know in a month wether it's any good.

Expensive but easy, no mess.
You get a free cube.
Convenience more than anything.


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## Rocker1986 (13/7/15)

Ah yep, the 20L ones I'm pretty sure you just dump into the fermenter and pitch the yeast. Maybe top up with water but not sure on that? Temp control would be advised for achieving the best results coupled with a good yeast of course.

I often browse the FWKs at Craftbrewer (no affiliation etc) when I'm down there, they have some pretty interesting ones. I nearly bought a couple to get cubes for my own AG brews but decided to get some 25 litre cubes from a camping shop to do slightly bigger batches.


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## madpierre06 (13/7/15)

I did get one from CraftBrewer, all I needed to add was the yeast, treated it withg the same love and care as my usual brews, and came up a very nice beer. $50 + yeast for 20L of very nice beer.


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## rude (13/7/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> Ah yep, the 20L ones I'm pretty sure you just dump into the fermenter and pitch the yeast. Maybe top up with water but not sure on that? Temp control would be advised for achieving the best results coupled with a good yeast of course.
> 
> I often browse the FWKs at Craftbrewer (no affiliation etc) when I'm down there, they have some pretty interesting ones. I nearly bought a couple to get cubes for my own AG brews but decided to get some 25 litre cubes from a camping shop to do slightly bigger batches.


25 L cubes sound good were did you get them ? How much were they ? Are they cubes ?
cheers Rude


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## Lowlyf (13/7/15)

panspermian said:


> Recently did a double choc stout fresh wort kit.
> I usually do partial mash but did this due busy lifestyle and I was running out of beer.....
> I bottled it last week, so I'll know in a month wether it's any good.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's it. I'll be pushed for time this weekend so I might give it a go. 

What's so good about a free cube may I ask? What is their use?


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## Lowlyf (13/7/15)

American IPA recipe 

IPA/IPL/PA Fresh Wort
20g Centennial Hops (20 min boil)
15g Simcoe Hops (10 min boil)
15g Simcoe Hops (0 min boil)
10g Simcoe and 10g Centennial Hops (dry hop)
Wyeast American Ale (WY1056) or Safale US05
Procedure
Well in advance of preparing recipe, place 5-10 litres of water in a fridge and chill*
Bring 2 litres of fresh wort to the boil in a saucepan. Simmer 20g of Centennial in a hop
After 10 minutes, add 15g of Simcoe hops to the hop sock and continue to
After a further 10 minutes, turn off the heat, add 15g Simcoe hops and steep for 10
Remove hop sock and pour wort into the fermenter. Add the remaining fresh wort and top up with chilled and tap water to 20 litres at 20-25°C and stir vigorously for 5
Add yeast, seal fermenter and store in cool conditions **
On day 4 of fermentation, place 10g of Simcoe and 10g Centennial hops in a sanitised hop sock and hang in fermenter. (If kegging, hang the hop sock in the keg after transferring the beer from the fermenter). Complete fermentation as


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## manticle (13/7/15)

Lowlyf said:


> Yeah that's it. I'll be pushed for time this weekend so I might give it a go.
> What's so good about a free cube may I ask? What is their use?


Look up no chill which is usually associated with all grain but can be used for larger size extract brews.
However cubes are made from the same matetial as plastic fermenters (high density polyethylene or HDPE) and can be used as fermenters. Basically you pay for wort, get a free fermenter.


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## Rocker1986 (13/7/15)

rude said:


> 25 L cubes sound good were did you get them ? How much were they ? Are they cubes ?
> cheers Rude


Yeah mate, same shape just slightly bigger. These things are bloody good thick walled sturdy things too, might even outlast me :lol:. It was called Down Under Camping or something but the shop isn't there anymore, can't remember the price now, about $20 or $30 I think. Bunnings sell them as well but they're different to the ones I have.

I've found them the perfect size for my 40L urn BIAB setup.


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## Hillsey (14/7/15)

I use them a lot. I have used both the 15l and 20l FWKs. Really easy to use and produces a good beer.


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## Lowlyf (14/7/15)

I am in desperate need of a secondary so I don't run into the same issue I had on the weekend and I could use the cube as one correct? That's so good


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## mongey (14/7/15)

I've done a bunch of them and they always make good beer. Done both the 5l and various 15l Styles.

of all the 15l the ESB ones were the best but they don't make them at the moment as their brewer left . their 5l ones were not bad but again they arnt making them at the moment. last I heard anyway

I don't really like the Brewers selection ones. They all come out with too low og when topped to 20l. Mid strength at best.beer tastes good . but I don't want to pay $50 for 20 liters of 3.2% beer 

I've done a few of the All in Brewing ones and they are good. especially the black IPA .

I have done 1 of the flat rock brewing ones and that came out amazing,. those are 23l and you don't top up . choice is limtied on those as they one seem to make 1 at a time and I have only seen them at daves home brewing in sydney

I have moved to can recepies at the moment just cause there is more choice and variety and i feel a little more involved with the process


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## JDW81 (14/7/15)

Lowlyf said:


> I am in desperate need of a secondary so I don't run into the same issue I had on the weekend and I could use the cube as one correct? That's so good


What happened on the weekend? If it was to do with transfer to a secondary, it may have been an unnecessary step. I'm not about to debate the pros and cons of a secondary fermentation vessel, but leaving in the primary takes out a step where you can get your beer infected or introduce oxygen (something you don't want post fermentation).

You'd be better using the cube as the primary and your current fermenter as a secondary. Fermenting in a cube is common practice, and something I've done many times.
JD


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## Lowlyf (14/7/15)

JDW81 said:


> What happened on the weekend? If it was to do with transfer to a secondary, it may have been an unnecessary step. I'm not about to debate the pros and cons of a secondary fermentation vessel, but leaving in the primary takes out a step where you can get your beer infected or introduce oxygen (something you don't want post fermentation).
> 
> You'd be better using the cube as the primary and your current fermenter as a secondary. Fermenting in a cube is common practice, and something I've done many times.
> JD


Ah I just bottled too soon. It seems as if the fermentation hadn't finished and I primed the batch and bottled it. I noticed at the end of the bottling I had no yeast cake so I either stirred it all up with the priming or it hadn't finished fermenting. Stupid mistake and one I have learnt from. 

As for the cubes, do they not have an airlock valve? Isn't there a risk of the lid blowing off?
Nor do they have a tap so that would require a siphon correct?


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## manticle (14/7/15)

You can fit them with a tap. They have a bung and thread so when empty, simply dril out the centre of the bung hole, clean and sanitise then fit the tap.
As for airlocks you can either drill a lid and fit with rubber bung and airlock, put a piece of cling film and rubber band around the lidless entrance or put the lid on and back off a dew notches. This is enough for gas to escape. Don't forget as the cube will eventually explode (it will expand significantly first though so you'd have to be blind, forgetful and daft for it to get to that point).


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## Damn (14/7/15)

IMO Fresh Wort Kits are generally far superior. Some stores are good enough to have samples you can taste as there are some very ordinary ones out there. I occasionally get a FWK when my stocks are getting hammered and are poor on time. Grain & Grape do some magnificent ones.


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## quantum8 (14/7/15)

I did a coconut porter using brewers choice "black cat" wort as a base and it turned out fantastic.


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## S.E (14/7/15)

Are the 20L FWK full volume and don’t need watering down? If so then you only need a tap and perhaps a short length of hose and most people would have everything else needed to get started in brewing.

As the beer can be fermented and also dispensed from the cube. All as you would need to do is open the cube pour in a dried yeast screw the lid back on tight lay it on its side fit a tap, open the tap and use the short length of tube as a blow off from the tap.

You wouldn’t even need any cleaner or sanitiser as the only things that would need this are the hose and a sharp knife or drill bit that you would need to carefully cut the tap hole and that could be done in a saucepan of boiling water.

The only reason it couldn’t be fermented upright with a bit of cling wrap is there wouldn’t be any headspace so would get a bit messy without a blow off.
There are pictures of a full cube I fermented using the tap as a blow off in post #52 here


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## tugger (14/7/15)

I'm a big fan of the all in brewing fwk. 
I have done the ruby and the kala Amber and black ipa. 
They show the all grain recipe on the kit and recommend the dry hop amounts. 
Every time they turn out perfect. 15L kit to make 20L.


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## mongey (14/7/15)

tugger said:


> I'm a big fan of the all in brewing fwk.
> I have done the ruby and the kala Amber and black ipa.
> They show the all grain recipe on the kit and recommend the dry hop amounts.
> Every time they turn out perfect. 15L kit to make 20L.
> ...


The black IPA is good. I just finished off my last longneck of the Poca IPA and I thought it was good too

I did the porter and teh ealry bottles were good but had some weird infection/ not finsiehd fermenting / gusher situation with it . had to chuck most of it


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## Stu Brew (14/7/15)

I just put a Torpedo IPA clone on using a wet pack. First time I have honestly used one. I was planning on putting some extra hops in for the boil until I realised how much was actually in there. Then I packed it up and put back into the fridge. $48.50 for the kit, with good yeast too, If I had bought the hops, yeast and malt seperately it would have cost me closer to $70. Give it a shot....Im going to be using them more often now. Seems like far better value than buying small quantities of months old hops....


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## Lowlyf (14/7/15)

Cheers guys, all this positive feedback from peoples experience is exciting


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## dannymars (14/7/15)

I'm not into using pre-made wort... BUT, reading through this, it occurred to me that for the container as well it's a better deal than just buying the cube from bunnings.

Might be worth doing when stocks are low (like now haha).. Now I've started doing some sour projects I need all the containers I can get...


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## Lowlyf (14/7/15)

dannymars said:


> I'm not into using pre-made wort... BUT, reading through this, it occurred to me that for the container as well it's a better deal than just buying the cube from bunnings.
> 
> Might be worth doing when stocks are low (like now haha).. Now I've started doing some sour projects I need all the containers I can get...


Yeah that's it, I need the container as well and I need beer so win win really


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## madpierre06 (14/7/15)

Hey Lowlyf...this might be the go for you, save you upgrading from BIAB later.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/86956-ag-gear-brisbane/#entry1300436


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## dammag (14/7/15)

I have done the Belgian Dubbel from Craftbrewer. Turned out fantastic. And I have re used the cube many times no chilling.


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## Ghizo (14/7/15)

I will be doing one of these soon


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## daveHQ (14/7/15)

I just done a riggers black IPA from G&G, it turned out fantastic!


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## Lowlyf (14/7/15)

tugger said:


> I'm a big fan of the all in brewing fwk.
> I have done the ruby and the kala Amber and black ipa.
> They show the all grain recipe on the kit and recommend the dry hop amounts.
> Every time they turn out perfect. 15L kit to make 20L.
> ...


These guys at All Inn brewing co are literally just down the road from me. I'm going to go and pick up a fwk from them this weekend. STOKED!


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## Rocker1986 (14/7/15)

MIght as well try a few of their beers while you're at it too. I went there for something once, I think it might have been their opening weekend, and the beers were excellent.


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## AlwayzLoozeCount (17/7/15)

How long would the shelf life be on a fresh wort kit?

How long do all grain brewers keep their wort in a cube before you decide to brew it up?

I bought an All In Brewing citra pale fwk and noticed it was 6 months old when I got it home. Drinking a glass now. It doesn't taste bad at all but it has no aroma and the taste is pretty bland, maybe it's past its best.. I get much better results just using kits with some additions.


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## Rocker1986 (17/7/15)

I think it's about 2 years. Personally I don't like to leave them much past 3 months; I know they won't go off or anything like that, but I wonder if the hop influence diminishes in the cube in the same way it does post fermentation in the bottle or keg? So yeah, I prefer to ferment them as fresh as I can. Most of mine sit there about 1-2 months at the moment, before I ferment them.


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## Lowlyf (17/7/15)

AlwayzLoozeCount said:


> How long would the shelf life be on a fresh wort kit?
> 
> How long do all grain brewers keep their wort in a cube before you decide to brew it up?
> 
> I bought an All In Brewing citra pale fwk and noticed it was 6 months old when I got it home. Drinking a glass now. It doesn't taste bad at all but it has no aroma and the taste is pretty bland, maybe it's past its best.. I get much better results just using kits with some additions.


Maybe try just dry hopping it slightly


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## tj2204 (17/7/15)

AlwayzLoozeCount said:


> I bought an All In Brewing citra pale fwk and noticed it was 6 months old when I got it home. Drinking a glass now. *It doesn't taste bad at all but it has no aroma and the taste is pretty bland*, maybe it's past its best.. I get much better results just using kits with some additions.


According to their site the Citra Pale Ale is only 15 IBU, so that could be the issue?


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## Rocker1986 (17/7/15)

I daresay it probably is the issue. That's a bloody low IBU for a pale ale. :blink:


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## panzerd18 (17/7/15)

Brewing the ALL IN Citra Pale Ale at the moment. Nearly ready to bottle and should be fantastic.


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## GFC07 (17/7/15)

Hi Fella's

I've done 6 All in FWK to date and all have been fantastic in my humble opinion.

You cant really go wrong with these kits.

Ive done the following kits:
Billy murray lager (with saflager yeast) Was very nice
2 x citra pale ale (dry hopped 25g of citra & Cascade) My favorite so fat
Ruby amber ale (Safale05) nice beer
Lucy Session ale + BE2 (kegging tomorrow) should be good from reports ive herd
and purchased an american brown today and intend to lay down tomorrow with safeale05

Money wise it compares to extract brewing (traditional flavor tin, 2 tins of extract, specialty grains,hops, yeast etc) with half the effort (- additional hops).
Time wise is no comparison.
Taste wise i personally believe they are much better than majority of the kit and kilo brews you will make, however some of my extract brews where awesome but they cost me around $65 to make.
In short they are excellent value for money for great tasting beer for little to no effort.

I might add i dont have temp regulation for ferment, i dont crash chill, i dont rack off to secondary, i do keg and i love beer 
I try and keep ferment in range around 20 deg +/- 2 or 3 deg

Cheers


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## Rocker1986 (18/7/15)

What were you putting in your extract brews to have them cost $65?? Or are you located somewhere where it costs more? :unsure: 
Most of my extract brews were around the $30-$35 mark. Now, with AG they're around $20-$25 a batch, unless I make a big beer, which is rare.

I don't rack to secondary either, never have done, even with lagers.  Can't see the point to be honest, except in certain circumstances (long term conditioning before bottling/kegging etc.)


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## GFC07 (18/7/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> What were you putting in your extract brews to have them cost $65?? Or are you located somewhere where it costs more?
> Most of my extract brews were around the $30-$35 mark. Now, with AG they're around $20-$25 a batch, unless I make a big beer, which is rare.
> 
> I don't rack to secondary either, never have done, even with lagers. Can't see the point to be honest, except in certain circumstances (long term conditioning before bottling/kegging etc.)


I've been finishing a coopers pale ale keg of so i apologize in advance 

Today i purchased in northern suburbs of melb, 
Blackrock american pal ale tin - $23.90
Morgans Xtra pale LME - $14.50
1kg DLME - $10.00 (the dry light stuff)
sf05 - $6.50 (can use kit yeast if i wanted)
=$55
I haven't included hops yet for boils and additions or used specialty grains and steep/mini mash blah blah blah. :chug:
Add hops which they sell @ $5 -7.5 p/50g, and if your making a hop hog or similar and use 2 or 3 different hops, that's another $10 - $15 so your looking at $65 - $70.
= $70

I gotta say, beers with the extras and hops and shit thrown in are the bests you may make without going AG (up for debate), but had ive had similar results with the citra FWK with extra hops for dry hopping.

Dont get me wrong, i love trying out different shite, im up to about 25 - 30 extract/kit/FWK brews, I've only had 1 that was total shite due to infection from my young fella poking hole in the glad wrap and dropping in a couple of leggo's i later discovered :blink:

I'm sort of half way along making an AG/mash rig that i can also use to distill *"water"* with so i can make my own oak flavored *"water"* drinks with 

Anyways im always looking to make things cheaper and I'm trying to save so i can finish of the shed thats up with concrete/electrical/Gas/water then look out all grain brewing/mashing and all things crafty :beerbang:


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## Lowlyf (18/7/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> What were you putting in your extract brews to have them cost $65?? Or are you located somewhere where it costs more? :unsure:
> Most of my extract brews were around the $30-$35 mark. Now, with AG they're around $20-$25 a batch, unless I make a big beer, which is rare.
> 
> I don't rack to secondary either, never have done, even with lagers.  Can't see the point to be honest, except in certain circumstances (long term conditioning before bottling/kegging etc.)


What is your secret to a clear brew then?


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## mongey (18/7/15)

GFC07 - that shop is pretty expensive. Cans are $5 more than other shops and esb sell 05 for less than $5


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## Rocker1986 (18/7/15)

Yeah, I can see how it adds up. I didn't like the hops prices at the brew shop so I started sourcing online for heaps cheaper. Yeast I re-use to save on that. I'm not gonna get into the debate of extract vs AG  but in my personal experience my AG brews have been streets ahead of the extract ones I did. In saying that, the extract plus grains and hops were better than the kits. Of course, as I went along I also learned about temp control and other things to improve my beers, so it all sort of evolved as I moved up the "ranks" so to speak. The FWKs are all AG as far as I know.




Lowlyf said:


> What is your secret to a clear brew then?


I use Brewbrite in the boil (last ten mins) and I add Polyclar during cold crashing about a week before I bottle the batch.  It basically does the same thing as time - just a shitload faster.


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## Bbowzky1 (18/7/15)

I shop at Grain and Grape and they usually rotate there brews thru the kezza. There FWKs are amazing and usually very fresh.
I usually use these when i don't have enough time to do a propper brew, or if i javnt got any yeast ready i just put one on with US05.
Definitely worth the 45 bucks.


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## Ghizo (18/9/15)

Just tried my first Hefeweizen fresh wort kit. Must say pretty good. Easy drinking. I will try another fresh wort brew.


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## MRZ (21/9/15)

I was at the LHBS and saw some 15L FWK and asked about them. They said just put in the fermenter and top up to 20L and put yeast in and thats it. Can add some late hops too.

I thought about it and is easier than me curently doing kit and kilo and they said its also fresher compared to the can stuff.

I will try it later when I get through some of my cans.


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## Mikeyr (21/9/15)

FWK's are a bloody good step up, add in some "05" yeast and a handful of hops ..... you get a great brew ............BUT BEWARE!!!!!

FWK's are definitely the "gateway drug" .... before you know it you will be meeting guys in dodgy carparks to collect your latest group buy grain :lol: ...which reminds me .. i need some more Pils...

You'll have more plastic tubs than Bunnings

Your laundry will start looking like someone's set up a meth lab and your wife will want to know why you need ANOTHER fridge .....and you know what an Erlenmeyer flask is and you can spell it!

And just like "free fish" when fishing ..... that "cheap beer" that you once used to make is costing more per litre than grange ..... when all the gear is costed in!!

AND LOVING IT!!!!!!!


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