# Yet Another 12v Pump



## Tony M (15/8/12)

My rig is fitted with a couple of dodgy washing machine pumps which have given many years of service and no electric shocks (surprise!). Fortunately, I burnt one out yesterday so bit the bullet and actually decided to spend money on new pumps, rather than on fuel and time, trawling the verge pick-ups.
I picked up a couple of these

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4M-2150L-H-DC-E...#ht_6955wt_1134

and was wondering if anyone has used them. I chose them as they have oodles of capacity and variable speed and were only $66.00 with delivery from Hong Kong. They are on several US sites but the price and delivery are around $140.00.
Wish me luck.


----------



## Harry Volting (15/8/12)

Go 'the brown' pump.
Search the forums for more info.


Hope this helps.
Harry.


----------



## QldKev (15/8/12)

Harry Volting said:


> Go 'the brown' pump.
> Search the forums for more info.
> 
> 
> ...




Except that pump is pushing out about 10 times the flow of the brown pump

Back to OP
I haven't seen one used for brewing, I wonder if it would have the same issues as the brown pump with crap getting stuck in the rotor?

QldKev


----------



## black_labb (15/8/12)

this one seems to have flow control via a voltage regulator which would mean there is no need for a valve after the pump.


----------



## Tony M (15/8/12)

QldKev said:


> I haven't seen one used for brewing, I wonder if it would have the same issues as the brown pump with crap getting stuck in the rotor?
> 
> QldKev



This pump has 8X the power of the brown pump and 15mm inlet and outlet, instead of 9.5mm inlet and 6.5mm outlet for the brown, so it should be able to pump marbles.


----------



## shaunous (15/8/12)

I've never used the brown pumps, but coming from a mechanical point of view, them pumps from the many pictures (including pump breakdown pis) and spec's i've seen look absolute rubbish.
Alot of people seem to use them though, each to there own, but I never would want to trust them...

The ebay pump your looking at looks ok, i'm guessing the black box with all the asian writing/pictures is a controller, how will you power it as its DC, battery or inverter...

Shaun...


----------



## Wolfy (15/8/12)

Let us know how it goes, I'd be a little worried that (like the little brown pumps) the 100degC working temp they suggest might mean that it has some kind of thermal-cut-off that means you can't pump boiling water/wort around (for very long).


----------



## shaunous (15/8/12)

I've never looked into this, but what about proper Automotive 12v/dc water pumps. They are designed to withstand high temperatures and good flow, the only thing is they are not variable, to the best of my knowledge. But I know when people who are real keen about there cars wanna get rid of the basic belt driven water pumps on there race/drag/street cars, they get a remote mounted electrical ones...

Maybe something to look into...


----------



## Dan Pratt (15/8/12)

I think that us brewers need a middle ground pump available to run our brewery's. 

Brown pumps are $30 the march pumps are $150 and as yet we're not seeing any availability for a $60 pump from a local brew store. I do apologys in advance if some one is to correct me.

I think you may be on a winner Tony, good luck.

I was looking at these as an alternative.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/40689101...irculating.html

or these which is what you have purchased

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/46318920...tion_Speed.html


----------



## dicko (15/8/12)

MARCH.....!!


----------



## Tex083 (15/8/12)

Looks good mate, I have heard good things about these on race cars. The Davis Craig branded ones. I believe that they are variable based on water (or wort) pump.
I will be staying tuned to see how they go! A cheap 12v power source is garden light transformers, they even come DIY ready with screw terminals


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (15/8/12)

Check the manufacturer for food grade applications, if they dont give the ok then beware.
Nev


----------



## woodwormm (16/8/12)

I'm sensing these may become the new 'stc1000' ... cheap and we'll all end up with a few


----------



## Yorg (16/8/12)

Before I send an inquiry - has anyone else already done so?

Re the all black pump: Note that it is rated to 100C only in the 3phase DC version. What's 3phase DC, I don't understand their description - is it a difficult to implement?
It seems to be magnetic drive: "Drive mode: brushless, magnetic isolation" like the March, which is good for the food grade issue, depending on materials in the pump head - therefore my wanting to send an inquiry.

Re the brass one: it is not as far as I can see an isolated mag driven pump chamber - or is it, according to this description?: "Durable permanent magnetic rotor/impeller and fine ceramic shaft"

Did anyone get dimensions?


----------



## Yob (16/8/12)

most important is to ask if they are food grade rated before all the rest become valid questions


----------



## QldKev (16/8/12)

iamozziyob said:


> most important is to ask if they are food grade rated before all the rest become valid questions




Are the brown pumps actually food grade?



QldKev


----------



## Dazza88 (16/8/12)

QldKev said:


> Are the brown pumps actually food grade?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


iirc the material used is approved for food uses in the brown pump. 

the plastic in this black pump is pa66. a type of nylon. a guick google suggest it can be used in food applications but no really definitive single search result. is this pump food grade? should contact the seller direct.

i dont own any pump but was considering the brown pump a while back and did research a little.


----------



## Yob (16/8/12)

QldKev said:


> Are the brown pumps actually food grade?
> 
> 
> 
> QldKev



yep and the 24V ones are 12l per min... Im not seeming to have many problems with them but I also CIP while still hot so Im not sure if thats the difference or maybe Im just lucky thus far  

Yob


----------



## Tony M (16/8/12)

To answer a couple of questions


shaunous said:


> , how will you power it as its DC, battery or inverter...


I use a 6/12/24V battery charger to power the mill and mash paddle on my gear, so it will be easy to run a couple of wires to run these pumps. The only reservations are that the charger puts out 17V on the 12V setting and I dont know what that will do to that mysterious box with the chinese writing on it.



shaunous said:


> I've never looked into this, but what about proper Automotive 12v/dc water pumps.


This is sold primarily as an automotive coolant pump and a pressurised radiator can perk along at well over 100C, so i'm sure that aspect will be covered.



Yorg said:


> What's 3phase DC,


I'm no expert , but I think that little black box will switch the DC current alternately to three sets of stator windings which will give you a rotating magnetic field around the armature, so the motor is driven from the outside (stator) rather than the inside (armature). Are you as confused as I?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (16/8/12)

Tony M said:


> To answer a couple of questions
> 
> I use a 6/12/24V battery charger to power the mill and mash paddle on my gear, so it will be easy to run a couple of wires to run these pumps. The only reservations are that the charger puts out 17V on the 12V setting and I dont know what that will do to that mysterious box with the chinese writing on it.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tony
Some great info.
But is it food grade ?
The rest is irrelevant if you cant use it for safe brewing.
Nev


----------



## Filby (16/8/12)

Tony is pretty close with the 3phasse DC motor description. It basically converts DC to 3phase AC and then varies the frequency of the sine wave to vary the speed of the motor. This is how inverter aircons work except it doesnt have to conver AC to DC then back to AC (like the aircon does). 

Fil


----------



## Yorg (16/8/12)

iamozziyob said:


> yep and the 24V ones are 12l per min... Im not seeming to have many problems with them but I also CIP while still hot so Im not sure if thats the difference or maybe Im just lucky thus far
> 
> Yob



Yeah, but as Wolfy has experienced, they cut out after running hot for some minutes.
I wonder if others have experienced this.
I need a reliable no fuss small pump - but I don't care if its AC or DC. The March is too big.

This looks like it may be OK - I'm waiting for more info from the manufacturer:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/59582693...food_grade.html


----------



## Yob (16/8/12)

I personally havnt had that experience. Ive had one on the HLT (12v) for almost 12 months, probably oven a dozen HERMS brews without issue... Well except when i decided to open it to have a look, maybe clean... and broke it  

Very interested to see if those linked above are fg looks like a tight unit.


----------



## Tony M (17/8/12)

DazDog said:


> the plastic in this black pump is pa66. a type of nylon. a guick google suggest it can be used in food applications but no really definitive single search result. is this pump food grade? should contact the seller direct.


I had a stooge around too, Dazdog and found nothing specific. However, several suppliers did say it was safe. The best I saw was this one from a filter supplier and as far as I'm concerned, if they can filter my blood thru it, it will handle my beer.

"PA66 nylon filter mesh media (21)
Medicinal filter mesh (2)
Liquid medicine filter mesh (1)
Blood transfusion filter mesh (1)
tea bag,coffee mill filter mesh media (1)
Automobile fuel pump filter mesh media (1)
other uses. filter mesh(Flour sieving,food,chemistry,printing...etc) (17)"


----------



## Truman42 (17/8/12)

Yorg said:


> Yeah, but as Wolfy has experienced, they cut out after running hot for some minutes.
> I wonder if others have experienced this.
> I need a reliable no fuss small pump - but I don't care if its AC or DC. The March is too big.
> 
> ...




See this post here for why they can sometimes cut out once they get hot and what you can do about it. At first I thought it was some sort of thermal cut out but I had run this pump with clean boiling water through it a couple of times before with no problems.
It cut out on 3 occasions at mash out temps and I think it was just the heat causing tighter tolerances combined with the dried up crud in the bush which was pushing the shaft and magnet against the body of the pump casuing it to stop.


I havent had any problems with my brown pump since pulling it apart and giving it a good clean out, doing a hot CIP after every brew and running the pump with the body upright above the inlet/outlet. Ive pumped 90C water through it to clean and it has run for 20 mins plus like this.

Brown pump problems


----------



## Yob (17/8/12)

Im not convinced, just coz a supplier says "she'll be right" is different than a manufacturer stating food grade..

The plastic might well be fine but i dont think they pump blood at 100'c do they?

Automotive pumps? When was the last time you drank from the radiator?

Im not trying to be deliberately objectionable moreover cautious.. Id like to get the manufacturers opinion on food grade before i forked out for one... Just as i did with the brown pumps..


----------



## Yorg (17/8/12)

I've just purchased a 'sample' of the pump linked on post #22.
The MP 15RM model.

$48 for the pump, $54 delivery costs. No doubt would be less for a bulk buy.
Should get it in days.
Will let you know what its like.


----------



## QldKev (17/8/12)

Yorg said:


> I've just purchased a 'sample' of the pump linked on post #22.
> The MP 15RM model.
> 
> $48 for the pump, $54 delivery costs. No doubt would be less for a bulk buy.
> ...




Looks like one of these


----------



## woodwormm (17/8/12)

Yorg said:


> I've just purchased a 'sample' of the pump linked on post #22.
> The MP 15RM model.
> 
> $48 for the pump, $54 delivery costs. No doubt would be less for a bulk buy.
> ...



Yorg,

I've always been scared off by Alibaba, i thought it was only for importers/wholesalers etc who wanted to buy thousands of units....

did you buy your one 'sample' through that link? 

any special skills/language required to do so? 

there's so many products come up in searches from Alibaba that i'd like....


----------



## Yorg (17/8/12)

printed forms section said:


> Yorg,
> 
> I've always been scared off by Alibaba, i thought it was only for importers/wholesalers etc who wanted to buy thousands of units....
> 
> ...



No problem so far at all, couple of emails and was able to paypal. Also check out Alibaba express, they seemed to have almost all the same products but selling single items.
http://www.aliexpress.com


----------



## Yorg (17/8/12)

QldKev said:


> Looks like one of these



Sure does, but that one is bigger and more powerful.
I need one to fit into a tight space.


----------



## Dazza88 (17/8/12)

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/48383316...s_beverage.html

The white version of the brown pump?


----------



## Tony M (18/8/12)

DazDog said:


> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/48383316...s_beverage.html
> 
> The white version of the brown pump?



Check out the specs---- the "colar" is black.


----------



## QldKev (18/8/12)

DazDog said:


> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/48383316...s_beverage.html
> 
> The white version of the brown pump?



Here's one on ebay with threaded in/outlets 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320883439853?ss...984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Dazza88 (18/8/12)

Tony M said:


> Check out the specs---- the "colar" is black.



White is the new black, stupid me, trusting what i see and not what is written.


----------



## IainMcLean (18/8/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Thanks Tony
> Some great info.
> But is it food grade ?
> The rest is irrelevant if you cant use it for safe brewing.
> Nev



PA66 is polyamide, and if its compounded right prior to molding it should be food safe as per FDA regs. It's essentially nylon. More details can be found on BASF or DuPont websites.

However, I'd be wary about long run times at high temperatures...


----------



## glenwal (18/8/12)

Yippie Ki Yay said:


> PA66 is polyamide, and if its compounded right prior to molding it should be food safe as per FDA regs. It's essentially nylon. More details can be found on BASF or DuPont websites.
> 
> However, I'd be wary about long run times at high temperatures...



As far as i'm aware, food grade isn't just about the base material. So whilst PA66 might be food safe, who knows what else (eg. colouring) is included in the material, and what other products (eg. mould release) are used in the manufacturing process that aren't food grade.

Also, what are the other parts are in the pump that aren't PA66 made of?


----------



## beerdrinkingbob (20/8/12)

Made an enquiry regard the keg king looking pump, see below

The price is USD53/pc FOB Xiamen for MP-20RM. 
The shipping cost is USD48 for 1 pc .USD65 for 2 pcs..USD125 for 5pcs, from Xiamen to Australia via Fedex
USD145 for 10pcs via DHL.

looks like you need to buy ten pumps, a bulk by if you will, a pump landed for around $70, any interest in the risk?


----------



## Dan Pratt (20/8/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Made an enquiry regard the keg king looking pump, see below
> 
> The price is USD53/pc FOB Xiamen for MP-20RM.
> The shipping cost is USD48 for 1 pc .USD65 for 2 pcs..USD125 for 5pcs, from Xiamen to Australia via Fedex
> ...


What are the specs on that pump?


----------



## beerdrinkingbob (20/8/12)

Linkage

Scroll down to the MP-20RM


----------



## Wolfy (20/8/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Made an enquiry regard the keg king looking pump, see below
> 
> The price is USD53/pc FOB Xiamen for MP-20RM.
> The shipping cost is USD48 for 1 pc .USD65 for 2 pcs..USD125 for 5pcs, from Xiamen to Australia via Fedex
> ...


Yes. 
IWaki did not reply to my email, so I might have to call them.


----------



## IainMcLean (20/8/12)

I'm in too...


----------



## bigfridge (21/8/12)

iamozziyob said:


> Im not convinced, just coz a supplier says "she'll be right" is different than a manufacturer stating food grade..
> 
> The plastic might well be fine but i dont think they pump blood at 100'c do they?
> 
> ...



Exactly ....... it needs to be food grade at the max rated operating temperature.

You don't want the "manufacturers opinion" - you need an independant certification. I will say it again - remember the Chinese hops.

I can't understand why you guys are stuffing around with these pumps when you have the March pumps at the high end and brown pumps as a cheap/disposable item. These are well proven in high temperature, food grade applications and available from a variety of suppliers (both in Australia and via ebay).

What more do you want ?

If you want a 'set and forget' option - just go with the March. If you ar ehappy to ensure that your wort is well filtered (to remove any solids) then the Brown pump will give good service (but buy a few spares to just be sure)

Dave


----------



## glenwal (21/8/12)

bigfridge said:


> I can't understand why you guys are stuffing around with these pumps when you have the March pumps at the high end and brown pumps as a cheap/disposable item.



Its the lack of a middle ground. Not everyone wants to thrown down the cash for a March pump, but needs something better than a brown pump.

And if you search through the old threads about pumps, people were saying the same thing about the brown pumps. So while it could go the way of the chinese hops, it could also be the next brown pump or STC-1000.


----------



## QldKev (21/8/12)

It also seems good enough for one of the sponsors to stock.


----------



## Tony M (21/8/12)

As a child of the 40's who chewed his lead soldiers, lived in a perpetual cloud of organo-phosphates and organo-chlorides to keep the fleas, mozzies and flies at bay,used asbestos for everything, spent many years machining particle board (phenolics -> cancer), thirty years on a chopper gun in a fibreglass factory (too many chemicals to list) and was smoking a packet of champion ruby a week by the time he was fourteen, I am somewhat bemused by people's obsession with the vague possibility of a few micrograms of something that may or may not be a bit off, being flushed out of a pump, especially in this 21st. century chemical world. 
I can understand the retailers beating this drum, because when some enterprising brewer goes out and bulk buys a good deal, it affects the retailer's bottom line which we know is being undermined by the explosion in on-line shopping.
Just remember one thing folks, everybody's brewery has one deadly poison in it. It is called alcohol and although none of you will admit it, it will kill more of you than the PVC you ingest from filling up your rig with the garden hose.
I've had my spray and shall now slink off and don my flack jacket and heavy weather gear. Cheers.


----------



## IainMcLean (21/8/12)

Tony M said:


> As a child of the 40's who chewed his lead soldiers, lived in a perpetual cloud of organo-phosphates and organo-chlorides to keep the fleas, mozzies and flies at bay,used asbestos for everything, spent many years machining particle board (phenolics -> cancer), thirty years on a chopper gun in a fibreglass factory (too many chemicals to list) and was smoking a packet of champion ruby a week by the time he was fourteen, I am somewhat bemused by people's obsession with the vague possibility of a few micrograms of something that may or may not be a bit off, being flushed out of a pump, especially in this 21st. century chemical world.
> I can understand the retailers beating this drum, because when some enterprising brewer goes out and bulk buys a good deal, it affects the retailer's bottom line which we know is being undermined by the explosion in on-line shopping.
> Just remember one thing folks, everybody's brewery has one deadly poison in it. It is called alcohol and although none of you will admit it, it will kill more of you than the PVC you ingest from filling up your rig with the garden hose.
> I've had my spray and shall now slink off and don my flack jacket and heavy weather gear. Cheers.




Sometimes I just wished there was a 'Thumbs-up' like button on the forum!


----------



## spudfarmerboy (21/8/12)

Tony M said:


> As a child of the 40's who chewed his lead soldiers, lived in a perpetual cloud of organo-phosphates and organo-chlorides to keep the fleas, mozzies and flies at bay,used asbestos for everything, spent many years machining particle board (phenolics -> cancer), thirty years on a chopper gun in a fibreglass factory (too many chemicals to list) and was smoking a packet of champion ruby a week by the time he was fourteen, I am somewhat bemused by people's obsession with the vague possibility of a few micrograms of something that may or may not be a bit off, being flushed out of a pump, especially in this 21st. century chemical world.
> I can understand the retailers beating this drum, because when some enterprising brewer goes out and bulk buys a good deal, it affects the retailer's bottom line which we know is being undermined by the explosion in on-line shopping.
> Just remember one thing folks, everybody's brewery has one deadly poison in it. It is called alcohol and although none of you will admit it, it will kill more of you than the PVC you ingest from filling up your rig with the garden hose.
> I've had my spray and shall now slink off and don my flack jacket and heavy weather gear. Cheers.



There are a few nannies and scare mongers amongst this site.
I wonder how many of the brewers who are worried about the pump being food safe are smokers.
I know at least one of them is. One of the worst things you could do to your health.
I'd be more worried about off flavours at high temperatures. Don't know if thats possible or not.
I use a March pump, never had a problem or a worry with it.


----------



## Wolfy (21/8/12)

bigfridge said:


> Exactly ....... it needs to be food grade at the max rated operating temperature.
> 
> You don't want the "manufacturers opinion" - you need an independant certification. I will say it again - remember the Chinese hops.
> 
> ...


If we're going to get that pedantic, I'm not sure I've ever seen _any_ 'certification' (other various supplier/seller statements) to confirm that little-brown-solar-pumps are rated as 'food grade' at the temperatures used for making beer.

As for why consider something else ... little-brown-solar pumps are cheap but nasty and have a low flow rate, March pumps on the other hand are quite expensive. Some of the pumps linked above are less than half the price of March pump but the specifications supplied show they should perform the same. In addition the pumps (at least what appears to be be the same item) are sold by various home-brew shops in Australia and the pumps have been used by members of these forums with favorable reviews.


----------



## gobern (21/8/12)

The Xiamen Youme site states that they are Food Grade. Craft Brewer lookalike also claimed to be food grade. I am willing to join a bulk buy but there appear to be a number of models with differing head/flow characteristics. 240V/ 50Hz also is more appealing to me than 12V. Can we get different models within 1 order of 10 pumps.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob (21/8/12)

gobern said:


> The Xiamen Youme site states that they are Food Grade. Craft Brewer lookalike also claimed to be food grade. I am willing to join a bulk buy but there appear to be a number of models with differing head/flow characteristics. 240V/ 50Hz also is more appealing to me than 12V. Can we get different models within 1 order of 10 pumps.



Can't see that would be an issue, there was no discount on the pump, just the postage.


----------



## glenwal (21/8/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Can't see that would be an issue, there was no discount on the pump, just the postage.



I'd double check with them first. If they are a factory that produces them to order, you might find that they have a minimum order due to equipment setup which may be different for the different model pumps.

If you can do different pumps though, it might be good to see if they can provide some prices for a few different models 

(btw, i'm sitting on the fence atm between grabbing one of these, or just settling with a brown pumps for my new setup, so some more options might tip the balance  )


----------



## beerdrinkingbob (22/8/12)

Hi Guys,

Been chatting to Wolfy via PM and he is keen to get this BB off the ground, I'm going to get one from this buy too.

Anyone want to buy my 24v brown pumps?

Cheers 

BDB


----------



## Batz (22/8/12)

spudfarmerboy said:


> There are a few nannies and scare mongers amongst this site.
> I wonder how many of the brewers who are worried about the pump being food safe are smokers.
> I know at least one of them is. One of the worst things you could do to your health.
> I'd be more worried about off flavours at high temperatures. Don't know if thats possible or not.
> I use a March pump, never had a problem or a worry with it.



:icon_offtopic: 
I was at a barby last Saturday night and several people were standing around a fire bucket outside. I was given a jelly and I threw the plastic spoon in the fire, this lady went off about the poison fumes I had created. Yes guessed it she was smoking at the time. :blink:


----------



## ashley_leask (22/8/12)

Batz said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> I was at a barby last Saturday night and several people were standing around a fire bucket outside. I was given a jelly and I threw the plastic spoon in the fire, this lady went off about the poison fumes I had created. Yes guessed it she was smoking at the time. :blink:



Put me down for one of these if the BB goes ahead.


----------



## shaunous (22/8/12)

Another Ash said:


> Put me down for one of these if the BB goes ahead.




I'd be interested also...


----------



## Wolfy (22/8/12)

I'm waiting on the technical data sheets for the pump housing material and confirmation of a few other things (including making an order of different pump models and payment methods) - if all goes well I'll post in the Bulk Buy forum when things are ready (I've already asked *Dane*'s permission to run the buy).

But the pumps in question are 240V models, so we've side-tracked this thread quite a bit.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob (22/8/12)

Wolfy said:


> I'm waiting on the technical data sheets for the pump housing material





Not that technical but this image with some info was sent to me, sorry mate not sure if I have already posted it.


----------



## shaunous (22/8/12)

Wolfy said:


> But the pumps in question are 240V models, so we've side-tracked this thread quite a bit.




Even better


----------



## Wolfy (22/8/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Not that technical but this image with some info was sent to me, sorry mate not sure if I have already posted it.


Yep, the same info is on their website.
I was trying to get some additional details about the "_glass fiber reinforced polypropylene_" which is what the housing and much of the liquid-contact surfaces are made from.


----------



## Tony M (22/8/12)

Wolfy said:


> Yep, the same info is on their website.
> I was trying to get some additional details about the "_glass fiber reinforced polypropylene_" which is what the housing and much of the liquid-contact surfaces are made from.


The polypropylene has a small proportion of short glass fibres mixed into it to give it extra tensile strength and stiffness. it can frequently be seen in automotive components and is recognised by the "sparkle" of the inclusions, though the base material can be many different plastics.
Polypropylene is often seen as icecream pots and is one of the "greasy" plastics like polyethylene as used in your fermenter. Neither will kill you.


----------



## QldKev (22/8/12)

Tony M said:


> The polypropylene has a small proportion of short glass fibres mixed into it to give it extra tensile strength and stiffness. it can frequently be seen in automotive components and is recognised by the "sparkle" of the inclusions, though the base material can be many different plastics.
> Polypropylene is often seen as icecream pots and is one of the "greasy" plastics like polyethylene as used in your fermenter. Neither will kill you.



What if a 2 tonne block of it falls on your head?


----------



## Tony M (22/8/12)

You're bloody fast kev!


----------



## Wolfy (22/8/12)

Tony M said:


> The polypropylene has a small proportion of short glass fibres mixed into it to give it extra tensile strength and stiffness. it can frequently be seen in automotive components and is recognised by the "sparkle" of the inclusions, though the base material can be many different plastics.
> Polypropylene is often seen as icecream pots and is one of the "greasy" plastics like polyethylene as used in your fermenter. Neither will kill you.


No doubt true, in addition I use (and pressure cook/autoclave) my PP yeast-vials and they don't melt or deform (much).

However, the supplier replied with the following information when asked about food grade applications and pumping boiling water:
"_The MP series pump are rated as food grade.
But it can't handle hot liquid 100 celcis all the time.it take only 1 hour then need stop and rest. 
it is better handle hot liquid under 85 celcis then continue working 24 hours._"

So - especially before offering to purchase the pump on behalf of others - I'd like to try provide as much information about the material the pump is made from, so that others can determine if they think it will melt/deform/poison people when used for their home-brewing applications. It would appear that the pumps will be fine for recirculating/pumping during mash and sparge (HERMS/RIMS etc), however I presume that (some) people will want to recirculate/whirlpool after/during the boil and/or sanitize equipment by pumping boiling water/cleaning fluid.

The pumps (linked earlier in this thread) sold by LHBS indicate that they are made from polysulfone which is more stable at high temperatures than polypropylene.
In addition the local sales/distributor of the Japanese made Iwaki pumps, (housing material is specified as "Glass filled polypropylene") said they can only be used up to 85degC and would *not *sell me one when I said I want to to pump boiling water. 

While all the pumps _look_ the same (pumps even have the exact same product code/numbering) and all appear to have the same technical specifications/rating I don't want to assume they _are _the same, without trying to find all the information first.


----------



## Malted (22/8/12)

Mexican little brown pump. Can't tell if it's 12V or 240 volt, must be battery powered.


----------



## jonsey32 (22/8/12)

I'd be in for one of these pumps if the buy goes ahead.


----------



## Wolfy (23/8/12)

Bulk buy info/details for the 240V Food Grade pumps (from China) posted here:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=67083


----------



## blotto (23/8/12)

> While all the pumps _look_ the same (pumps even have the exact same product code/numbering) and all appear to have the same technical specifications/rating I don't want to assume they _are _the same, without trying to find all the information first.


These pumps do indeed look very similar to ones found on the sponsors site but if you look closely there are small differences around the head end. But I suppose they could be a newer or older model.


----------



## Yorg (24/8/12)

The Craftbrewer one is specified as 110 Celcius on their site. ??

Wolfy, which pump had you mentioned earlier as polysuphone - I couldn't see it?


----------



## Wolfy (24/8/12)

Yorg said:


> The Craftbrewer one is specified as 110 Celcius on their site. ??
> 
> Wolfy, which pump had you mentioned earlier as polysuphone - I couldn't see it?


The KegKing imported, CraftBrewer (and other vendor Ebay 'Home brew') sold pumps are advertised being made from polysulfone (all are linked earlier in the thread).

The Bulk Buy pumps are Polypropylene, with (according to the technical sheet) a 'heat distortion temperature' of 152C, but some vendors of similar pumps rate them for continuous use only at/under 80-85C due to possible (as far as I can understand) thermal expansion issues.


----------



## Tex083 (26/8/12)

Rather than starting a new topic has anyone looked into a solar hot water pump
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brushless-Water...=item3a6ae777f1
The only issue I have is the connections are brass. 12V and a great flow rate, comes in 3 models depending on flow and head height. 
Max temp of 110c so perfect for our uses.
Not a bad price somewhere between brown pumps and the others in this thread, $66.95 to $86.95


----------



## MHB (26/8/12)

Id be very careful of that pump; it looks like a knockoff of the Grundfos recirculation pump.
The impeller is attached to the rotor and the whole thing is lubricated by a thin film of whatever you are pumping. With sugary wort over time there is a build-up between the rotor and the bucket it sits in they inevitably choke and smoke, sometimes rather spectacularly.
Mark


----------



## Feldon (27/8/12)

Tex083 said:


> Rather than starting a new topic has anyone looked into a solar hot water pump
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brushless-Water...=item3a6ae777f1
> The only issue I have is the connections are brass. 12V and a great flow rate, comes in 3 models depending on flow and head height.
> Max temp of 110c so perfect for our uses.
> Not a bad price somewhere between brown pumps and the others in this thread, $66.95 to $86.95



This mob in the US has adapted these 12v pumps to food grade spec for brewing.

http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html


----------



## Tex083 (27/8/12)

Thanks Mark I was just tossing out the idea, looks like the link in the next post is good. The SS fittings and modified to Homebrew use is great.
Now to sneak one or two past the wife


----------



## dougsbrew (27/8/12)

Tex083 said:


> Thanks Mark I was just tossing out the idea, looks like the link in the next post is good. The SS fittings and modified to Homebrew use is great.
> Now to sneak one or two past the wife




i imagine the coated version would mean smaller tolerances and the build-up between the rotor and the bucket it sits in would happen alot quicker. 
constant maintenance i guess would be best practice using this pump.


----------



## QldKev (27/8/12)

Feldon said:


> This mob in the US has adapted these 12v pumps to food grade spec for brewing.
> 
> http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html
> 
> View attachment 56719



I think that's a decent looking pump. Even the real world flow tests it's producing ok numbers. 

QldKev


----------



## Tony M (30/8/12)

I have fitted one of my pumps to give it a try. It came with a potentiometer attached which varies the delivery from zero to six litres per minute which is less than the 2150L/Hr (35.8L/Min) they skite about. My transfer hose is a metre long and only 8mm bore, so that will be choking it greatly. However it is quite adequate and the variable speed will be handy. It just remains to be seen if it clags up or corrodes. I'll report again after a brew.


----------



## matho (30/8/12)

Tex083 said:


> Rather than starting a new topic has anyone looked into a solar hot water pump
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brushless-Water...=item3a6ae777f1
> The only issue I have is the connections are brass. 12V and a great flow rate, comes in 3 models depending on flow and head height.
> Max temp of 110c so perfect for our uses.
> Not a bad price somewhere between brown pumps and the others in this thread, $66.95 to $86.95



I bought one of those pumps originally for my braumiser, the ferrite magnet is exposed which caused me a few concerns as some ferrite magnets can be made out of not very nice stuff, also there was a strong plastic smell coming from the pump even after a few hot pbw washes



Feldon said:


> This mob in the US has adapted these 12v pumps to food grade spec for brewing.
> 
> http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html
> 
> View attachment 56719



that looks like a lot better as the magnet is covered.

the pump I got was a great performer but I was just not sure about it so I ended up getting a 809 march pump

cheers steve


----------



## mark0 (30/8/12)

they clearly don't understand fluid dynamics.

IF the flow is full pipe....it isnt the highest part of the hose that matters, it is the end. You will get head recovery in any downhill section of full pipe/hose flow. This is how a siphon works.

IF the pipe is partially full, then the highest part counts. But from what i can see in their video, they have full pipe flow. 

there 6ft head test is really a 5ft something test. 

10 Points for trying though, and designing a half decent experiment.


----------



## Tony M (15/9/12)

Tony M said:


> I have fitted one of my pumps to give it a try. It came with a potentiometer attached which varies the delivery from zero to six litres per minute which is less than the 2150L/Hr (35.8L/Min) they skite about. My transfer hose is a metre long and only 8mm bore, so that will be choking it greatly. However it is quite adequate and the variable speed will be handy. It just remains to be seen if it clags up or corrodes. I'll report again after a brew.



As promised, I gave the rig a run and was very pleased with the performance of these little fellas. They deliver at a much better rate than the old 240V washing machine pumps I was using and I dont cringe when the cooling water drips all over them. The variable speed makes delivery control a breeze and stripping them down later, revealed no sign of any damage or corrosion, nor was there any indication of retained crap from hops or grain. All in all, a pleasing purchase.


----------



## roger mellie (15/9/12)

MHB said:


> I’d be very careful of that pump; it looks like a knockoff of the Grundfos recirculation pump.
> The impeller is attached to the rotor and the whole thing is lubricated by a thin film of whatever you are pumping. With sugary wort over time there is a build-up between the rotor and the bucket it sits in – they inevitably choke and smoke, sometimes rather spectacularly.
> Mark



Mark

Interesting comment. How does the Grundfos knock off - that would be - correct me if I am wrong - very similar to the type of recirc pump used in the Braumeister, compare?

I have looked at getting the type of pump (Vortex BM) from a mate of mine in Germany but wondered exactly that - they arent mag drive and are likely quite low clearance.

RM


----------



## Feldon (15/9/12)

Tony M said:


> As promised, I gave the rig a run and was very pleased with the performance of these little fellas. They deliver at a much better rate than the old 240V washing machine pumps I was using and I dont cringe when the cooling water drips all over them. The variable speed makes delivery control a breeze and stripping them down later, revealed no sign of any damage or corrosion, nor was there any indication of retained crap from hops or grain. All in all, a pleasing purchase.


 
Thanks for the feedback Tony.


----------

