# Aussie Lager - Questions



## vaanderal (6/12/11)

Hi guys,

Just recently acquired myself a keg system. In honor of that fact i want to put down a brew that all of my mates will like. Unfortunately they are all big on their megaswill, so i am looking to brew something that they will enjoy, with a small twist that i will enjoy.

The recipe i have got so far is pretty simple:

4kg aussie pale malt
500g cooked rice
25g Pride of ringwood at start of boil
saflager s-23

I am looking to put a little hoppy twist on it. Nothing overpowering but just a slight hint of aroma with a bit of flavour coming through. I was going to add about 5g nelson sauvin at flameout to add that little bit of aroma (and keep with the ANZAC theme!)

What do you guys think?

Also, just a question RE temperature control. I have a spare fridge, but unfortunately cannot afford the temperature control. Would i be best to stick it in the fridge with some ice packs in there to try and keep the temperature down and steady?

Thanks,

Ben


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## dago001 (6/12/11)

Hi Ben
Personally, I reckon 25g of Por will be a bit bitter for an Aussie lager.
I think most Aussie lager are around 15 - 20 IBU, and yours comes in at 26 after putting your recipe in Brewmate. Assuming your brewing 23 litres, 17 grams of PoR will give you around 18 IBU. Also if you are after an Aussie style, a little crystal malt helps, but theres nothing wrong with what you have for base malts now. Brewed plenty of beers exactly the same. Drop the bitterness back to about 18 and your mates won't go home. 
Never tried Nelson in a lager, but if thats what you want, wack it in. I slowly worked my mates into drinking more hoppy beers, but at the end of the day, I brew to suit myself. If they don't like it, tough titties. I don't like my lagers with a twist though - it is a lager - it is what it is. Don't ask for a slice of lemon at my house unless you are making lemonade.
You could try running the fridge on a timer. KMart are selling them for $6.00. Got one, but haven't tried it yet.
Cheers
LagerBomb


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## Bribie G (6/12/11)

For that real Ozzy taste, I'd use Wyeast Danish Lager and ferment at 14 for about 4 days then let it drift up to around 17 till done. It's related to the Fosters B yeast, apparently. And use some Saaz or Hersbrucker as late hopping to give a similar effect to Hahn or Cascade Premium.

Re the spare fridge, if you use it as a "dead fridge" and have some freezer space available, then freeze yourself down some 2L soft drink bottles of water and swap 2 of them in a couple of times a day. This will definitely keep the brew in the mid teens. I did this for a year till I got some kosher fermenting fridges and it worked just fine. If you want to be a real slave to the brew then maybe _also _run the fridge uncontrolled for a couple of hours in the afternoon or hottest part of its day, then switch off.


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## Nick JD (6/12/11)

If you can't keep S23 below 14C then use US05 - you'll get more of a "lager" flavour from US05 at 20C than you will with S23 at 17C (fruity as all hell).

I'd not put the Nelson in there. Save it for a beer where it shines. The "Styles" exist for a reason - sure you can mix them up and do something different - but if you want your megaswill mates to be happy with your beer, make them a megaswill and prove to them that you can make beer as good as a brewery ... then introduce them to something with flavour. 

Megaswill drinkers are so stupid that a great APA might be seen as a failure - because you haven't made VB. They really are that thick.


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## bignath (6/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just recently acquired myself a keg system. In honor of that fact i want to put down a brew that all of my mates will like. Unfortunately they are all big on their megaswill, so i am looking to brew something that they will enjoy, with a small twist that i will enjoy.
> 
> ...



Recipie in general looks good. Id make the following changes though...

If you dont have temp control, id use a different yeast. Give s189 a try for amtruemlager yeast that can work cleanly at 19degrees. Or alternatively, use US-05 which is an ale yeast but very neutral and does the 'fake lager' thing very well. 

Also,,im a huge nelson sauvin fan but i wouldnt,put it in a lager necessarily (although there is avery tasty commercial lager that uses it brilliantly well). To be perfectly honest id do a small pride of ringwood addition if you,want just a bit more aroma. It may not be what you necessairly want to drink, but if its more for your mates then they'll probably drain the keg.
Other than that, maybe scale the bittering addition back to 20g, and 5-10g flameout for chill version, or cube hop for no chill version.

Itll make a decent mega killer.

EDIT: small buttons, big ******* fingers, cant spell for shit.....


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## ekul (6/12/11)

have you thought about using coopers yeast? CPA is fairly palatable to megaswill drinkers, and because it is an ale its fermented at higher temps...


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## vaanderal (6/12/11)

Ok so I will scale back the PoR to 17g at the start of the boil.

If I do use us-05, should I still try and keep the fermentation temp in the mid teens? Or is that too low for this yeast?

I will save the Nelson's for my next brew I think.


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## bignath (6/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Ok so I will scale back the PoR to 17g at the start of the boil.
> 
> If I do use us-05, should I still try and keep the fermentation temp in the mid teens? Or is that too low for this yeast?
> 
> I will save the Nelson's for my next brew I think.



US05 loves 18 deg. Will work well at 16, will also,work well at 20. I reckon 18 is pretty much the sweet spot.


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## black_labb (6/12/11)

ekul said:


> have you thought about using coopers yeast? CPA is fairly palatable to megaswill drinkers, and because it is an ale its fermented at higher temps...




I second the idea of doing an easily accessible ale. Quite frankly I don't see the point in putting all that much effort into a beer that you won't really enjoy yourself. Something like a CPA would work well, maybe drop the bitterness a touch if you want to please their palates.


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## Nevalicious (6/12/11)

Definitely go the CPA yeast. Yes, its not a lager, but have a search around here for Andrew QLD's CPA clone and you'll find its a real winner. I've made it heaps of times and it always pleases... Except the time I did a double batch for the winter case swap and didn't dilute into the fermenter <_< 

Piece of piss to brew and ferment (can get away with varying ferment temps if need be (unlike a lager, which CAN be a little more temperamental)) and is guaranteed to be a winner with mates!


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## Batz (7/12/11)

I do an Aussie lager similar to XXXX Gold, I played around with this recipe for years and tried all the yeasts listed above and found S186 to produce the results I was after.
As far as hops go I have found Cluster better than POR for this style (XXXX Gold), if your interested I can send you the recipe.


Good luck with it, it really not as easy as some would believe to turn out a Aussie mega swill that swill drinkers like.



Batz


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (7/12/11)

Big Nath said:


> US05 loves 18 deg. Will work well at 16, will also,work well at 20. I reckon 18 is pretty much the sweet spot.



I've had US-05 down to 14 degrees (in winter) for my APA.

It's seriously neutral and really lets the malt and hops shine through at this temp.

Goomba


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## jacknohe (7/12/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I've had US-05 down to 14 degrees (in winter) for my APA.
> 
> It's seriously neutral and really lets the malt and hops shine through at this temp.
> 
> Goomba




+1

From personal experience, if you don't have solid control of the temperature, don't risk it with a Lager yeast. Use US-05 as its far more forgiving with a little fluctuation than a Lager yeast and it also cleans up quicker. Given the reduced level of malt and hop complexity you are planning, US-05 will be perfect to dazzle your mega-swill friends with. 

Besides, they wouldn't know the difference between an Ale or Lager yeast. :lol:


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## Jazzafish (7/12/11)

I know the drill... I have been brewing for my dad and some of his mates lately. They drink Tooheys extra dry mainly, but go for a squires when they feel frisky. So I brew a beer for them that is between a TED and JSGA that I shamelessly enjoy on a really hot day. So I brew a 95% Pilsner malt 5% sugar beer at 1.042 bittered to 18IBU. I also late hop it with amarillo at ~0.8grams per litre. 

Looking at your recipe I see some issues with balance. I'll use VB as a guide. This is measured in a lab to be 18IBU. I calculate 25g of 9% alpha acid POR hops to be ~ 35 IBU when boiled for 60mins in 22L of 1.042 gravity wort. So you need to halve this addition if you want around 18IBU if you want it balanced in a simular way.

With the mash I'll use VB as a guide again. I can't remember the final gravity of VB, but lets assume it is 1.007 (+/- 0.002) with a 4.65abv. Commercially they brew to high gravity and tweak it later... but if they brewed to gravity, based on the estimated final gravity and abv, I'd target an OG of 1.040 to 1.044 using Aussie pilsner malt and some sugar. But I won't stop you using rice.

Regarding the nelson late hops, go for it! I'd be selfish and add a couple of grams per litre... but keeping on task, 5g won't really add much and borderline being unnoticable. Try 10 to 15g at flameout and reassess aroma in fermenter. Then dry hop if needed. 

For my version of the same idea, I use US05 ale yeast over lager yeast. This is a very neutral yeast that suits many mainstream lager styles and quite frankly, your mates won't know the difference. Lagers take a lot more time and effort to make, so personally I only commit my time and brew gear to a pretty special lager recipe. That said, fermentation temperature control is really important in a beer like this. There is no where for any ferment flavours to hide in such a small beer. So I'd try a couple of things with your fridge until you put enough cash away to get a controller. 

1) Set the fridge to the warmest setting on the thermostat and measure the temp. Mine is 10 to 12*C so has become a lager fridge. If you have the time to do a lager and your fridge is the same, brew a lager, pitching 2 packets of 34/70. 
2) Freeze some 3 litre milk bottles and add them as needed to your fridge to maintain 18*C. Figure out how much you need. Then if you can be bothered to freeze and replace the ice as needed, brew an ale!


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## vaanderal (7/12/11)

Cheers for all the great information guys! I'll pop down to the LHBS on the weekend and pick up a packet of US-05.

Will the US-05 still benefit from a lagering period? Or should i just treat it as i would a normal ale?

Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?


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## Nick JD (7/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?



Yes, I advise against it. There's a reason every beer in Australia that uses POR doesn't use it late. 

Also, using US05 in hoppy ales makes it seem neutral - in bland lagers it leaves quite a bit of sweetness/diacetyl - which kinda fits an Aussie Lager anyway. I'd up the hops a few IBUs (from 18) to compensate for this. 25 is a nice balance.

I have a Aussie Lager on tap at the mo. It's half Wey Pils, half BB Ale, 100g BB Caramalt, Cluster at 60 min to 25 IBUs ... and US05. It's better than XXXX, by far.

Also, don't mash too high (<64C is appropriate).


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## mckenry (7/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Cheers for all the great information guys! I'll pop down to the LHBS on the weekend and pick up a packet of US-05.
> 
> Will the US-05 still benefit from a lagering period? Or should i just treat it as i would a normal ale?
> 
> Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?



It seems PoR is a love it or hate it hop. I used it late once. Once. Tasted dirty, a bit like river water. Could have been a bad brew, or old hops, it was a long time ago and have learnt more about handling ingredients since then. Never tried it again though, as I'm pretty sure it was PoR late that gave it that taste.


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## jacknohe (7/12/11)

mckenry said:


> It seems PoR is a love it or hate it hop. I used it late once. Once. Tasted dirty, a bit like river water. Could have been a bad brew, or old hops, it was a long time ago and have learnt more about handling ingredients since then. Never tried it again though, as I'm pretty sure it was PoR late that gave it that taste.



Ha Ha, I've had the same experience. There are some things in life you only do once...


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## super_simian (7/12/11)

Given the replies on this and other threads about creating an Aussie "Lager" (along VB/XXXX lines) but using US05 (or 1056 I guess) perhaps we need to delineate an Aussie "Cream Ale" style! Low bitterness, rice/sugar adjunct, and POR or Cluster. Any input?


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## black_labb (7/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?



I've used it a couple times. Once was a maltier CPA which turned out very well. The hops gave a very nice spicy flavour, though they were fresh flowers. The other time was everything I had on hadn IPA and I threw about 30g of pellets in as a cube hop (as well as alot of fuggles and citra). This turned out very well as well but I'm not sure what could be attributed to the POR in there. 

Its possible that POR degrade quickly which explains some people's bad experience with them. I'm looking to do an all POR IPA which should give me a good idea as to what the situation is.


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## bignath (7/12/11)

Ive used POR late (depends on what you mean by late) before, and it turned out to be quite a good beer. One of my more memorable ones? No, not really, but it was more than drinkable. Agree it certainly helps with fresh stock.

Mine were Ellerslie POR's and i swear you could feel the gooey goodness when you measured them out they were that fresh. Not dried up shit like my local sells...

From memory, the "late" addition on that batch was 20 minutes....Not really late by any stretch, but certainly a lot later than a standard bittering addition.


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## Nick JD (7/12/11)

Pride of Ringwood has the aroma of a pirate's gangrenous leg stump shortly after he removes it from his wooden leg and salves it with pigfat. 

The cheek of them to call it "pride". Where is Ringwood anyway? Is it a place, or is it a fungal disease on the end of an erect penis?


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## vaanderal (7/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Pride of Ringwood has the aroma of a pirate's gangrenous leg stump shortly after he removes it from his wooden leg and salves it with pigfat.
> 
> The cheek of them to call it "pride". Where is Ringwood anyway? Is it a place, or is it a fungal disease on the end of an erect penis?



I take it you're not a big fan of PoR there Nick? Haha


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## Nick JD (7/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> I take it you're not a big fan of PoR there Nick? Haha



I quite like the stuff, but only if it's had the living shit boiled out of it. 

The fact that a whole country's beer is derived from the sweaty armpit hop supreme astounds me. I pray that POR gets a hop disease and the fields are replanted with _any high AA NZ hop_ and we can start enjoying megaswill.


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## bignath (7/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> I pray that POR gets a hop disease and the fields are replanted with _any high AA NZ hop_ and we can start enjoying megaswill.



Ahhh, now you're talking!


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## Vanoontour (7/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> with _any high AA NZ hop_ and...



Seconded..


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## going down a hill (7/12/11)

black_labb said:


> I'm looking to do an all POR IPA which should give me a good idea as to what the situation is.


You are a brave man!


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## kymba (7/12/11)

wouldn't a low AA be better as you have to use a crapload more of it...so more flavour? or does it not work like dat?


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## Batz (7/12/11)

jacknohe said:


> +1
> 
> From personal experience, if you don't have solid control of the temperature, don't risk it with a Lager yeast. Use US-05 as its far more forgiving with a little fluctuation than a Lager yeast and it also cleans up quicker. Given the reduced level of malt and hop complexity you are planning, US-05 will be perfect to dazzle your mega-swill friends with.
> 
> _Besides, they wouldn't know the difference between an Ale or Lager yeast. :lol:_




Perhaps they won't but they will know what they like, and what they like won't be brewed with an ale yeast.
If you looking for an Aussie lager recipe then US-05 won't cut it,OK it might be a nice beer but it won't be like an Aussie mega swill. Funny how brewers are so experienced at brewing imported beers but really can't replicate a true Aussie lager. 

Batz


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## Lecterfan (7/12/11)

POR flowers are great. I did two Aussie 'pale ale' type things with last season's flowers - one about %5.4 and one at %4. Both were 20 minute only additions with fresh flowers. Fantastic, despite all you nay sayers. I've used the pellet form quite a lot also, there is a big difference, but still - Im a big supporter of POR if you know how to use what you've got... Cascade it aint, but it never purported to be...


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## Midnight Brew (7/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Where is Ringwood anyway? Is it a place, or is it a fungal disease on the end of an erect penis?



Outer eastern suburb of Melbourne. It was developed by the CUB boys in the place next to what is modern day Car City (the only thing ringwood is famous for apart from the train station and eastland). Rumour is they started growing them else where because the lights on Maroondah Highway were interfering with the growth cycle. No penis diseases that I know of but Im sure plent can be found at Ringwood Station.


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## going down a hill (7/12/11)

Ringwood has a half decent public golf course as well, with one of the most impressive golf ball blocking freeway fences I have ever seen.


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## manticle (7/12/11)

Batz said:


> Perhaps they won't but they will know what they like, and what they like won't be brewed with an ale yeast.
> If you looking for an Aussie lager recipe then US-05 won't cut it,OK it might be a nice beer but it won't be like an Aussie mega swill. Funny how brewers are so experienced at brewing imported beers but really can't replicate a true Aussie lager.
> 
> Batz



When you want to replicate something, starting with the same ingredients and processes seems like a very good idea.

Emulating something on the other hand gives more leeway.

You want to make VB for your mates, do what CUB do as much as you possibly can.

You want to make a beer you think vb loving mates might enjoy (before they comment on how it isn't as good or simply crack their own tinnies) then add your own thing.

Personally, I'd be happy to buy a VB slab for someone that's a dyed in the wool drinker of the stuff. 

Anyway here's my Aussie lager that I enjoyed. I found it a lot more flavoursome and malty than VB. Sub in the Danish lager yeast and ferment warm and it might approach CUB beers a lot more. Replace some malt with adjunct (sugar or rice maybe) and it might approach it a little more.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1260


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## Josh (8/12/11)

+1 for if you have a fridge ready for lagers, try and use it for lagers. Either set it to the warmest temp, or get yourself a timer and control your temps that way. I used a timer for years before getting a thermostat.

I have a standard lager waiting in the cube for me to get home this afternoon. 4kg pilsner malt, 1kg cooked rice. Saaz 60 minute addition only. Mash dropped and raised between 66C and 63C. Wyeast 2007 Pilsner yeast.


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## argon (8/12/11)

Never understood the fascination / obsession in cloning Aussie lagers for mates... sure it's what they drink and it wouldn't be a bad idea to give them something familiar. 

But... i've never met or seen anyone that when given the choice between VB or Heineken (insert your own Euro lager here) went for the VB. So why not make a decent Euro Lager, tell em it's just like the "premium" stuff and if they want cheap Aussie lager, then it's readily available at the bottlo or pub.

I think alot of us here consider the average bloke a little too steadfast in their brand loyalty. As long as your giving them something familiar, most people are pretty happy.


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## yum beer (8/12/11)

Id drop the POR back a little and add in a late-10min Cluster addition.

Served up a Coopers lager kit with Cluster to the father in law on the weekend--(fosters/vb drinker) and he loved it...
brewed at 15c with s189..2 weeks in the FV and bottled.


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## Nick JD (8/12/11)

argon said:


> Never understood the fascination / obsession in cloning Aussie lagers for mates... sure it's what they drink and it wouldn't be a bad idea to give them something familiar.
> 
> But... i've never met or seen anyone that when given the choice between VB or Heineken (insert your own Euro lager here) went for the VB. So why not make a decent Euro Lager, tell em it's just like the "premium" stuff and if they want cheap Aussie lager, then it's readily available at the bottlo or pub.
> 
> I think alot of us here consider the average bloke a little too steadfast in their brand loyalty. As long as your giving them something familiar, most people are pretty happy.



For me, if I can make _their_ beer almost exactly, when I have "Chimay Premiere" written above the tap they also believe that.

It's also an "in ya face" moment when they say, "Fark, that's close!" and go to get more, then ask, "How much does this stuff cost to make?" and watch their face when you tell them, "Fifteen cents a schooner." Pun aside, that's gold.


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## black_labb (8/12/11)

going down a hill said:


> You are a brave man!




I'm pretty confident it will turn out to be a nice brew,Though I may come back and declare myself brave but stupid and learnt a lesson. I'm too stubborn to learn from other people's mistakes, but that often works out well (but occassionally...)


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## drsmurto (8/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Cheers for all the great information guys! I'll pop down to the LHBS on the weekend and pick up a packet of US-05.
> 
> Will the US-05 still benefit from a lagering period? Or should i just treat it as i would a normal ale?
> 
> Also, has anyone had any experience with using PoR late in the boil?



If you can get fresh POR flowers then late POR is very nice.

I have a POR IPA on the cards soon using my homegrown POR flowers. 50 IBU with loads of POR flowers in the hop back.

Fresh POR flowers have a very fruity aroma, nothing like the pellets you get from dodgy HBS.

I have brewed an aussie ale of sorts which had 1g/L of POR flowers at 20 and flameout. 

A few years ago we had a hop challenge amongst local brewers. It was designed so that we could find out what each hop gave to a beer without having to brew several of the same beers each. Same grist, only difference was the hops (same late hopping schedule, 60 min adjusted to get the same total IBU). US05 to let the hops shine. I really enjoyed the POR version and it convinced me to use some late POR in my own beers.


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## mje1980 (8/12/11)

Might be against the grain, but i dont reckon you need adjuncts. You can mash very low and long ( 62-63 for 90 ), and use a highly attenuative yeast to get fg down under 1.010. Most koelsh grain bills are 90%pils 10% wheat, or even just 100% pils, and they are light bodied and crisp. Mash low and long, and the yeast will chew it right down. S189'd probably work well. WY 1007 does a good pseudo lager too. That's just my .02c though.


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## Xarb (8/12/11)

super_simian said:


> Given the replies on this and other threads about creating an Aussie "Lager" (along VB/XXXX lines) but using US05 (or 1056 I guess) perhaps we need to delineate an Aussie "Cream Ale" style! Low bitterness, rice/sugar adjunct, and POR or Cluster. Any input?



My goal this summer is to make Aussie style beers. At the moment the "Aussie-ness" has been limited to using POR as the hop of choice but I'm loving it so far. 

My last beer was:

JW Pils 80%
Cooked Rice 20%

10 IBU POR FWH
17 IBU POR 45 min to go
(hop schedule borrowed from Tony's Aussie Ale http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...p;#entry396383)

Mashed @ 64. 
WLP833 - German Bock Lager yeast (it is what I had on hand at the time).

I know the yeast isn't very Aussie, nor the addition of rice but it turned out brilliant, my best beer so far. 
Much nicer that Carlton, VB etc and unlike most homebrewers I actually don't mind drinking megaswill beer when I'm at the pub. 


Currently fermenting is my vain attempt to get a beer ready for Xmas. I only got it in the fermenter Monday morning so don't like my chances. 

Pale Malt 75% 
Wheat Malt 25% 

Hopped as above, but using US-05. 

Looking forward to this one too.


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## vaanderal (8/12/11)

Ok so here's the recipe that i've settled on. 


ANZAC Lager
Australian Lager

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.000
Total Hops (g): 20.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.042 (P): 10.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (P): 2.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.13 %
Colour (SRM): 3.4 (EBC): 6.7
Bitterness (IBU): 21.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.500 kg Pale Malt (90%)
0.500 kg Rice Hulls (10%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Pride of Ringwood Pellet (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 64C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 18C with Safale US-05

-------


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## drsmurto (8/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Ok so here's the recipe that i've settled on.
> 
> 
> ANZAC Lager
> ...



I assume you mean rice, not rice hulls?


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## Josh (8/12/11)

DrSmurto said:


> I assume you mean rice, not rice hulls?



Or rice gulls? h34r:


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## pimpsqueak (8/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Ok so here's the recipe that i've settled on.
> 
> 
> ANZAC Lager
> ...



Looks good, even with Rice Gulls.
What makes it ANZAC though?
Throw some Riwaka in there and your claim on ANZAC will be legit.


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## Nick JD (8/12/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Looks good, even with Rice Gulls.
> What makes it ANZAC though?
> Throw some Riwaka in there and your claim on ANZAC will be legit.



Stirring the mash with your tongue out and a mean look on your face adds the aNZac.


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## vaanderal (9/12/11)

DrSmurto said:


> I assume you mean rice, not rice hulls?



Yeah i mean rice. I couldn't see rice in BrewMate so rice hulls will have to do for now!




pimpsqueak said:


> Looks good, even with Rice Gulls.
> What makes it ANZAC though?
> Throw some Riwaka in there and your claim on ANZAC will be legit.



It was named ANZAC because i originally was going to use some Nelson Sauvin hops. If it offends your sensibilities that much i will rename it.


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## Flewy (9/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> Yeah i mean rice. I couldn't see rice in BrewMate so rice hulls will have to do for now!



You'd be better off using flaked rice in Brewmate rather than rice hulls, rice hulls are not fermentable so will be throwing your calculations off a bit.


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## pimpsqueak (9/12/11)

vaanderal said:


> It was named ANZAC because i originally was going to use some Nelson Sauvin hops. If it offends your sensibilities that much i will rename it.



Nah, I like Nicks idea. Just bust out a Haka while you're mashing in :beerbang:


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## Jazzafish (9/12/11)

Just one thing to think of when brewing a low bodied beer... balance. 

Bittering to gravity ratio is good to look at. Not exactly a linear equation in my experience, as they tend to attenuate to ~80% with little effort. EG: Beers like standard pub swill have around 18:44 (0.4) ratio and are fairly balanced at their low final gravities... even if it is like sex on a canoe (******* close to water). But double that to 36:88 (0.4) and you'll have a stronger malt balance, especially if it has a F.G less than 80% attenuated. 

Another thing to look at is the chloride to sulfate ratio in your water. Chlorides will draw attention to malt sweetness, sulfates will draw attention to hop flavour/bitterness. This relationship is not linear either. Lower gravities will benifit with a higher chloride ratio, but higher gravities benifit towards a greater sulfate balance. Again an attenuation thing.

I'm still fighting the good fight and brewing the odd megaswill type beer at home. Why? Pleases friends/family, teaches me a lot about my process and highlights any issues I may have (nowhere for flaws to hide)... and it always makes my other beers taste much better in comparison. Need average beer to truely appreciate the good to outstanding beer.


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## vaanderal (9/12/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Nah, I like Nicks idea. Just bust out a Haka while you're mashing in :beerbang:



I'll give it a try! Might give the neighbours a bit of a fright though haha.




Jazzafish said:


> Just one thing to think of when brewing a low bodied beer... balance.
> 
> Bittering to gravity ratio is good to look at. Not exactly a linear equation in my experience, as they tend to attenuate to ~80% with little effort. EG: Beers like standard pub swill have around 18:44 (0.4) ratio and are fairly balanced at their low final gravities... even if it is like sex on a canoe (******* close to water). But double that to 36:88 (0.4) and you'll have a stronger malt balance, especially if it has a F.G less than 80% attenuated.



So if i understand this correctly, you are advising me to up the grain bill in order to be able to add more bitterness with the hops? Or have i completely missed the mark? :unsure:


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## Jazzafish (9/12/11)

In a way yes... it is finding a balance of sweetness and bitterness using a ratio calculation. So if you want more bitterness, up the malt to balance.

Basically, if you wanted to clone something like VB, aim for an original gravity of 1.044 and 18IBU. (BU:GU of 18:44 = 0.4). This should attenuate to easily to 1.007 for a 4.6% abv. 
If you wanted to make a beer like VB, with a little more flavour... Say an original gravity of 1.050. Use the same ratio of 0.4 to calculate the bitterness of 20 (50*0.4). Same attenuation will give around 1.010 final gravity around 5.3%abv. Note maths done in head so allow some tollerance! Call it a loose guide.

When talking about the BU:GU ratio not being linear... The lower the gravity the more you will percive bitterness (especially below 1.045 SG beers), so be conservative with your bittering. The higher the gravity, the more you can afford to chuck more hops in and still have the same percieved balance.

Hope this clears up what I'm getting at?



vaanderal said:


> I'll give it a try! Might give the neighbours a bit of a fright though haha.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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