# 100% Munich.



## yardy (31/7/08)

Evening All,

planning an all Munich lager with S-189, i've searched here but can't find any reference to an all munich brew.
I'm sure it's all been done before so I'm looking for some advice, mash temps etc.

Cheers
Yardy


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## geoffi (31/7/08)

yardy said:


> Evening All,
> 
> planning an all Munich lager with S-189, i've searched here but can't find any reference to an all munich brew.
> I'm sure it's all been done before so I'm looking for some advice, mash temps etc.
> ...



I've been toying with this idea. I'd be mashing low, as the Munich will add a few points to the FG.


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## yardy (31/7/08)

yeah i thought low would be the go, thinking a mixture of Spalt & Hallertau Mittlefreuh/Tradition.

Cheers
Yardy


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## mika (31/7/08)

Look in Stusters Style topic on Munich Dunkel. Think it was Newguy who posted his recipe of 100% Munich. JZ (Jamil) mentions a similar thing on his podcast for Munich Dunkel. I'm planning on brewing one this Sunday...as long as the yeast takes off.


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## yardy (31/7/08)

Thanks Mika,

some good reading there, I've decided to go with Newguys advice and just have a single hop addition @ 60, looking forward to doing this one.
Single infusion only so I may add some Melanoiden that i have on hand.

Cheers
Yardy


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## dr K (31/7/08)

German Munich (weyermann) is fine to brew at 100%.
I have brewed with both Munich 1 (light) and Munich 2 (dark) with quite acceptable results, I have also brewed with 100% Maris Otter, but of these three examples I have only brewed once.
A single grain certainly gives you a feel for that malt but clearly you miss on some of the more complex and subtle notes that are achieved when a good selection of good malts are held in balance and concert.
It's one of those worth the effort once things...

K


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## mika (31/7/08)

What would you throw in to spice up a Munich then Dr K ?


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## wessmith (31/7/08)

mika said:


> What would you throw in to spice up a Munich then Dr K ?



Hops Mika, a balance of flavour and bitterness.

Wes


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## geoffi (31/7/08)

yardy said:


> Thanks Mika,
> 
> Single infusion only so I may add some Melanoiden that i have on hand.
> 
> ...




Munich already has plenty of melanoidins. Chew up a few grains and you'll taste it. No need to add more.


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## yardy (31/7/08)

dr K said:


> It's one of those worth the effort once things...



Reading the Munich Dunkel thread, I think Newguy may disagree with you.


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## Thirsty Boy (31/7/08)

I know mika already pointed it out, but Jamil's book give a recipe for a munich dunkel that is almost all Munuch dunkel

His is - for a 26.5L post boil volume @ 70% mash efficiency

OG - 1.054 IBUs - 22

5.53kg Munich
170g carafa special II

mash @ 68C

he talks about replacing the carafa special with sinmar extract if you want to do a pure extract brew... so I am assuming its there for little other than colour and could be left out without effecting the flavour all that much.

60min Hallertau x 34g
20min hallertau x 14g

He talks about avoiding too dark or too light a munich in order to give the right amount of bready toasty malt character from the melanoidins, but to not make it over the top and too intense. He suggest Munich in the 8-12 Lov range, so around 15-25EBC or basically weyerman munich II

Anyway, I have never made one so I dont know squat about it personally, just thought I'd pass on the wisdom of JZ & JP - who are as good a pair of gods to worship as any other

Thirsty


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## Tony (31/7/08)

I brewed a 100% Munich lager a while back. It was great. Came out a wonderful orange light copper colour and a big maltyness.

I didnt add any late hops whick kind of left it a bit plain, i would aggree wit hthe hops comment above.

I tried a beer made by Goathearder recently, which i believe was 100% munich and enough carafa spec 2 or 3 for colour, to about 32 to 35 ebc id say for a munich dunkel.

It was bloody delicious!

I have made stouts using munich and vienna as the base malts......... awsome once again

i say go for it, 15 minuite protein rest and mash cooler at 64 to 65 (using a good yeast like WLP 833 to attenuate well but retain malt character) to keep it crisp and ballance the maltyness. Add some hops at the end to help ballance it too.

definatly worth doing. 

cheers


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## Online Brewing Supplies (31/7/08)

wessmith said:


> Hops Mika, a balance of flavour and bitterness.
> 
> Wes


Wess , Munich Dunkle/Helle are not a hop driven beers, Dunkles has a slight sweet choc , brown malt profile.Helles is just a balance of sweet malt and little IBU. The Wyeast will make these styles.You will not get a real Munich without the right yeast.100 % Munich1 is some thing I have never tasted ,could work but I think you would need some thing else,Skill.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (31/7/08)

Tony said:


> [snip] using munich and vienna as the base malts......... awsome once again
> 
> 
> 
> cheers


You are right on! Most brewers think that Ale and Pils malts are the only base malts.
GB


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## mika (31/7/08)

Thirsty Boy said:


> ......He suggest Munich in the 8-12 Lov range, so around 15-25EBC or basically weyerman munich II.....



According to my Promash, Munich 1 is 8 Lov, is this still the case ? Don't know how old the Promash specs are :unsure:


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## newguy (1/8/08)

Geez a topic I have a lot of experience with, but it takes place while I'm asleep.  

You can make a dunkel or a traditional bock with 100% munich. A doppelbock needs a bit of something else - either a high proportion of a darker munich or a smaller proportion of caramunich or perhaps even just a touch of some carafa.

For those of you that think that all munich will be bland and uninteresting, obviously you've never tried it. Late hops in a dunkel, if you're brewing to the guidelines, is verboten. If you don't care about the guidelines, then add some late hops - it's your beer.

I've been brewing for 12 years now and I've noticed a natural progression in other homebrewers. Sooner or later, we all try brewing with one base grain just to see what the result is like. If you try it with munich malt, you're probably going to try it with vienna, pils, etc. It's very much worth your time. Good luck with it.


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## wessmith (1/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Wess , Munich Dunkle/Helle are not a hop driven beers, Dunkles has a slight sweet choc , brown malt profile.Helles is just a balance of sweet malt and little IBU. The Wyeast will make these styles.You will not get a real Munich without the right yeast.100 % Munich1 is some thing I have never tasted ,could work but I think you would need some thing else,Skill.
> GB



We seem to agree GB! It is always about balancing. 

Wes


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## Thirsty Boy (1/8/08)

hmmmm, newguy has a point. I just brewed a 1 hop 1 grain beer, that is tasting mighty fine in the fermentor and I am really keen to see how it turns out. Just to go against all the people who seem to think them inherently evil, my chosen ingredients were 100% schooner malt and POR hops.

I am now thinking after reading this thread and most particularly newguy's post.. that I might brew a series of neutral hopped 1 base malt beers. One with each of Pils, Vienna, munich, munich dunkel. And perhaps a series with the Ale equivalents - Pale, amber, brown etc. Then have a bit of a session playing around with exploring the flavours of each malt, and blending the "pure" beers. I'm thinking it might be a good recipe development tool.

Make a half batch of each type of "pure" base malt beer, then when you are contemplating a recipe, open some bottles and blend the beers in the proportions you plan to blend malts in your recipe. Not malty enough... what does a bit more munich do. You could even steep some crystal, throw yeast at the result to ferment what it could and have a little of that on hand to add another dimension to your creations

A bit of trouble initially, but maybe a shortcut in the end when you consider the time it takes to tweak a recipe by brewing, tasting, re-brewing etc etc And hell, you can always just drink em if you aren't getting recipe development value out of it.

You could have 4 or 6 of em on tap and blend your own as you go - that'd make for an interesting party! Prizes for the best blend on the night and everyone goes away to brew it as a from scratch recipe.

Of course, I just finished night shift, so I'm probably talking dribble - take that into account before you call me an idiot please

Thirsty


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## yardy (1/8/08)

thanks for the replies fellas B) 

so, I'm going with all Munich1, mash @ 66 (single infusion  ), FWH hop will be Hallertau Tradition and a 20 min addition of Czech Saaz.

i have got a little Carafa Spec left in the stores, so may add that for colour.

thanks again for all the constructive replies, bloody marvellous this joint  

Cheers
Yard


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## PJO (1/8/08)

yardy said:


> so, I'm going with all Munich1, mash @ 66 (single infusion  ), FWH hop will be Hallertau Tradition and a 20 min addition of Czech Saaz.


Sounds like a goer!


> i have got a little Carafa Spec left in the stores, so may add that for colour.


Leave out the Carafa just do a longer boil if you want more colour. A 2 hour boil will get you plenty of colour.

Cheers,
PJO


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## clay (1/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Wess , Munich Dunkle/Helle are not a hop driven beers, Dunkles has a slight sweet choc , brown malt profile.Helles is just a balance of sweet malt and little IBU. The Wyeast will make these styles.You will not get a real Munich without the right yeast.100 % Munich1 is some thing I have never tasted ,could work but I think you would need some thing else,Skill.
> GB



Hey Nev, any chance of posting your award winning Dunkel recipe?


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## yardy (1/8/08)

PJO said:


> A 2 hour boil will get you plenty of colour.
> 
> Cheers,
> PJO



yes, and a thankyou card from the gas co.


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## geoffi (1/8/08)

yardy said:


> yes, and a thankyou card from the gas co.




Yes, if it's just a matter of adding a little extra colour, go the Carafa. Save time. Save gas. Save money.


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## Peter Wadey (1/8/08)

Thirsty Boy said:


> ......... I might brew a series of neutral hopped 1 base malt beers. One with each of Pils, Vienna, munich, munich dunkel. And perhaps a series with the Ale equivalents - Pale, amber, brown etc. Then have a bit of a session playing around with exploring the flavours of each malt, and blending the "pure" beers. I'm thinking it might be a good recipe development tool.
> 
> ........
> 
> ...



Errrrmmm trying to mash 100% Amber or 100% Brown!
This'll be good!

Peter


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## PostModern (4/8/08)

Peter Wadey said:


> Errrrmmm trying to mash 100% Amber or 100% Brown!
> This'll be good!
> 
> Peter



I can imagine tasting one.... needs more Pilsner.


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## wessmith (4/8/08)

Uhmmm, Amber and Brown malts have no diastatic power. Dont know how you will mash them.

Wes


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## Peter Wadey (4/8/08)

wessmith said:


> Uhmmm, Amber and Brown malts have no diastatic power. Dont know how you will mash them.
> 
> Wes



Yes Wes, exactly my point. 

Rgds,
Peter


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## beers (7/8/08)

Has anyone tried 100% Joe White Munich? I aquired 1/2 a bag & am keen to get rid of it (without throwing it away). I'm interested to try it 100% to get a good feel for the JW product, but I'm a little hesitant after I brewed a 100% JW Vienna beer awhile back (It had this faint sickly sweet character to it). 
I'm thinking maybe adding 20% Wey Pils will help the enzyme activity & dry it out a bit? or is that just a stupid thought? :huh:


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## Tony (7/8/08)

Go for it beers

Try mashing it cooler at 64 to 65 deg for better atenuation (less sticky sweetness, more maltiness) and bitter it a bit more if you want.

Munich wont make it sweet like crystal will.......... it has a deep bready toasty maltiness. 

If you mash hot and bitter low an all pils malt beer will be sticky sweet too.

cheers


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## matti (7/8/08)

Vienna or Munich dark usually has a grain bill of 
45-50% lager malt
35% Munich malt in Vienna lagers and 40%-45% Munich in Dark Munich 


Looking that your aiming for a Dark Munich with 100%

Gregory Noonan reckon you should aim for stike temp of 68 ^_^.
A lot of late hops at strike out is recommended
Hallertau/perle all the way

I 'm just reading strigh from page 221 New brewing lager beer


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## beers (7/8/08)

Tony said:


> Go for it beers
> 
> Try mashing it cooler at 64 to 65 deg for better atenuation (less sticky sweetness, more maltiness) and bitter it a bit more if you want.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that Tony. 

The lower mash temp hadn't really crossed my mind. I think I'll aim for 65c. I was planning on aiming for 35ibu from 3 additions of Galaxy hops. Should be interesting I think.

Cheers


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## Tony (7/8/08)

Sounds perfect beers!

What yeast are you using?

cheers


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## beers (8/8/08)

Tony said:


> Sounds perfect beers!
> 
> What yeast are you using?
> 
> cheers



It's looking like S-189 at the moment. I may however repitch some 1728 Scottish Ale depending on when I get around to brewing. 

Cheers


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