# Set of newbie questions



## jglo9407 (30/1/13)

Hey everybody,

Gonna try a cider brew in the next couple of weeks, and have no idea what I'm doing! 

Here are a few questions I've been thinking about...

1: I want to make it from real apples if I can, but I don't have an apple press - if I bought a $20 juice extractor from Kmart or something, would that do the trick?

2: I have a 23 litre (approx) fermenter from beer brewing, but I read somewhere that you have to fill it up, or else it doesn't work properly, something about the cider being too vinegary?? Wouldnt want to do that many litres to start with.

3: what is the difference between dry yeast and liquid yeast? And how does one know how much to put in?


Cheers, for your help! Very excited about my future obsession!


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## Bats (30/1/13)

Hey Jglo.

Welcome to AHB and the great hobby that is home brew.

1: I want to make it from real apples if I can, but I don't have an apple press - if I bought a $20 juice extractor from Kmart or something, would that do the trick?
You can create cider from juiced apples using a juicer. I have done it before on my juicer and the result was awesome. Although I juiced enough apples to make 19L of Cider. From memory I used about 30kg of apples. I created a mess and took ages to juice. In my opinion, buying preservative free 100% apple juice to ferment would have been a lot easier and created the same result.

2: I have a 23 litre (approx) fermenter from beer brewing, but I read somewhere that you have to fill it up, or else it doesn't work properly, something about the cider being too vinegary?? Wouldnt want to do that many litres to start with.
I can't really comment on this as I have never experienced it nor have I brewed lesser amounts in a FV. I have a 5L glass demijohn that I do experimental brews and ciders in. Depending on how much you want to brew, buy a container to hold your desired amount. Why not buy one of those 3L glass Ribena juices and pour the yukky contents down the sink. You'll have a 3L glass fermenter. Just bung it with an airlock.

3: what is the difference between dry yeast and liquid yeast? And how does one know how much to put in?
Again, I have only ever used dry ale yeast in my ciders so can't really comment. I believe liquid cider yeasts would probably create a better cider as the strain is for cider brewing only. I intend to give liquid yeasts a go in the near future. For pitching rates, use http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html.

Just remember, fermenting 100% apple juice will give you a cider between 3.5 to 4% alcohol. Most yeasts will ferment almost all of the sugars out making it dry, even if you add extra fermentable sugar to bump up the alcohol. If you want a sweeter cider, add some non fermentable sugar like glucose. Or you can do something called 'back-sweetening' You add a Campden tablet to cease fermentation and add more juice to sweeten that will not ferment.

Good luck experimenting with your cider. There are heaps of different recipes on the net to try. Or better yet, keep it simple: juiced apples, dextrose, glucose, yeast, nothing else.


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## bradsbrew (30/1/13)

jglo9407 said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Gonna try a cider brew in the next couple of weeks, and have no idea what I'm doing!
> 
> ...


Q 1 = http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/61282-its-apple-season/

Q 2 & 3. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9233-frequently-asked-questions-for-the-new-brewer/

Plenty of cider threads in the non brewing section, which I see you have found to start this thread. When searching look for the ones with the most replies or the title that best suits your question.

Cheers


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## jaypes (30/1/13)

Woolies just had a special on golden circle apple juice. $2 for 2 liters

Thats what I use, along with S-04 yeast @18 Degrees C.

I am not a cider drinker, made it for my mates who love the stuff.

Some people here also add things like pear, blackcurrants, cinammon etc to the brew

Enjoy the obsession!


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## Bribie G (30/1/13)

I'm not a cider maker but I talked to a ciderist in NZ at a conference and he says that cider apples are completely different to eating apples, they are very rich in sugars and flavour and are an amazing experience compared to your average supermarket apple. When they ferment them they may get up to 11% alcohol depending on variety, so many of the megaswill ciders you buy such as Bulmers are "adjusted to sale strength" first - i.e. watered down. NZ has some great ciders about the strength of some sparkling wines which I have tried myself so I've experienced that first hand.

To achieve a more "boutique cider" taste you could try adding concentrated apple juice to your domestic apple juice to take it up to maybe 6%.

edit: grammmarrrr


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## Airgead (30/1/13)

jglo9407 said:


> Hey everybody,
> 
> Gonna try a cider brew in the next couple of weeks, and have no idea what I'm doing!
> 
> ...


My 2c worth -

1 - Yes but neither your $20 juicer or you will be happy afterwards. I use a really good screw press juicer that was a few hundred bucks and it takes me all day to press 40kg. I'm looking at building a basket press for next year (too late for this year) to speed things up.

2 - Half filling a fermenter is fine while you are fermenting. You get a c02 blanket that protects the cider from oxidisation. Once its finished though you need to keep oxygen away so putting it in something smaller (like bottles) is a good idea.

3 - I have used both dry and liquid with good results. Each different yeasty will make a slightly different cider and will work better with different combinations of apples. That's half the fun. Experiment.

The one big advantage with making the cider from real apples is that you get to control what apples go in. Each apple makes a different cider. Braeburn cider tastes entirely different to a pink lady cider. You can blend the apples to get it exactly the way you want it. I'm zeroing in on around 15% granny smith, 20%braeburn or gravenstein and the rest pink lady. I get all 3 for free from a pick your own orchard.

Cheers
Dave


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## stux (30/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Q 1 = http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/61282-its-apple-season/


Here's the actual link to punkins juicer
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/61282-its-apple-season/page-4#entry889071

Not exactly a $20 juicer, more like 99$

(I have the same one btw)


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## Bats (30/1/13)

Stux said:


> Here's the actual link to punkins juicer
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/61282-its-apple-season/page-4#entry889071
> 
> Not exactly a $20 juicer, more like 99$
> ...


This is the one I use to juice my apples.

It works well as expected but I have only used it once to do a cider and it's been a dust collector since.


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## jglo9407 (30/1/13)

Hey,

Thanks for all the replies,

I'd like to ask more about the fermenting in smaller containers, how does that work? How does the gas bubble out the top? And do you still bottle it in other bottles after the fermentation is finished, or do you just seal the jug with the original lid?

Thanks, sorry for all the silly questions


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## Bats (30/1/13)

jglo9407 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Thanks for all the replies,
> 
> ...


If you use bottles with no tap for fermenting, you will need a way to siphon the end product off the yeast slurry. There are cheap siphons around for this. I got mine from www.ibrew.com.au

As with Airgead, fermenting smaller quantities in a 23L FV will be ok as a co2 blanket is formed protecting your brew.


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## Airgead (30/1/13)

jglo9407 said:


> Hey,
> 
> Thanks for all the replies,
> 
> ...


Smaller containers work the same way as larger ones. You still need to fit an airlock (or similar) to the opening to allow gas out. If the container is small enough you can serve straight from it (and I know some who do) but given the amount of yeast slurry that would be at the bottom I suspect it would be fairly nasty, cloudy and yeasty towards the bottom. I'd still transfer to a clean container or multiple containers (ie: bottles) and leave behind the yeast for serving.

The other disadvantage with the typical containers used for small ferments (3l juice bottles or similar) is that they won't take pressure so unless you want a still cider you have to transfer to something that will.

Cheers
Dave


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## jglo9407 (1/2/13)

Hey y'all

Set up one 5 litre demijohn yesterday of just apple juice and champagne yeast, and today I'm about to setup a demijohn with mostly apple juice and a little bit of pear juice (again with champagne yeast)

Does anyone have any opinions on adding a bit of chopped up apple or pear into the mix? What are the advantages or disadvantages? With or without skin? Do I need to sterilize or do anything to the fruits before adding it?

Cheers, Joe


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## Airgead (1/2/13)

jglo9407 said:


> Hey y'all
> 
> Set up one 5 litre demijohn yesterday of just apple juice and champagne yeast, and today I'm about to setup a demijohn with mostly apple juice and a little bit of pear juice (again with champagne yeast)
> 
> ...


Has absolutely no effect at all on the final brew (except maybe to increase the chance of an infection from wild yeast on the skin). You get so little flavour or sugar out of it that its just not worth doing. Everything is locked up inside the fruit and is not available to the yeast.

As an experiment get a jug of water and add a chopped apple to it. Let it sit for a bit then have a taste. What you will taste is water.

In order to get the flavour out of the apple (or pear) and into the cider you need to crush it and extract the juice.

Cheers
Dave


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