# What Makes A Beer premium?



## damoncouper (8/4/08)

What makes a beer premium? It is sufficient to add a squirt of liquid noble hops? It just seems that everything is adding the word premium to its title in beer land. I think that they should substantiate the premium title, what are your thoughts?


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## Duff (8/4/08)

Purely marketing IMO.


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## Adamt (8/4/08)

Don't forget the fancy, 330mL bottle and the inflated price.


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## geoff_tewierik (8/4/08)

Adamt said:


> Don't forget the fancy, 330mL bottle and the inflated price.



Is that a green bottle?


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## randyrob (8/4/08)

usually the price


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## jdsaint (8/4/08)

A green, crown sealed, creamy water tasting bottle......
Oh thats what I am drinking, heineken imported, although brewed and bottled in australia <_< 
as I have also seen becks for $40 and $60 at the same bottlo 1 is germany 1 is ozzy they both are premium.....


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## rockin49 (8/4/08)

I read an interview with a CUB marketing manager many years ago who stated that it was simply "what we can charge $40+/carton for". Suppose $40 back then is more like $50 now.


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## boingk (8/4/08)

Personally I'm a fan of the Independant Breweries of Australia - they put out such numbers like Haagen Lager, a recent commercial favourite due to it being $29 a case, 5%, and drinkable. I'm sure it has the word premium somewhere on the bottle as well, haha. Well, that was my first commercial case of beer in over a year, so there we are.

Now back to brewing!!!

Cheers - boingk


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## Gerard_M (8/4/08)

Adamt said:


> Don't forget the fancy, 330mL bottle and the inflated price.


 I remember getting a marketing dept type newsletter from CUB back when I was running pubs. They justified the move from a 375 ml bottle to a 330ml bottle as being "what the Australian drinker is asking for". Interesting to know who the guy was that answered "yes, I would like less beer in the bottle thanks!"

I was told not to drink beers with any of the following words on the labelremium, Dry, Cold filtered, Extra.
Cheers
Gerard


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## Jye (8/4/08)

The BJCP tells me when to call beer premium


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## devo (8/4/08)

Duff said:


> Purely marketing IMO.



my thinking as well Duff.


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## gregb (8/4/08)

Gerard_M said:


> Interesting to know who the guy was that answered "yes, I would like less beer in the bottle thanks!"



They took him away in an ambulance and has not been heard from since.



Gerard_M said:


> I was told not to drink beers with any of the following words on the labelremium, Dry, Cold filtered, Extra.



Sound advice.

Cheers,
Greg


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## Aaron (8/4/08)

I believe it was traditionally reserved for beers over 5% ABV.


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## MCT (8/4/08)

Gerard_M said:


> I remember getting a marketing dept type newsletter from CUB back when I was running pubs. They justified the move from a 375 ml bottle to a 330ml bottle as being "what the Australian drinker is asking for". Interesting to know who the guy was that answered "yes, I would like less beer in the bottle thanks!"
> 
> I was told not to drink beers with any of the following words on the labelremium, Dry, Cold filtered, Extra.
> Cheers
> Gerard




Ive noticed, that beer that's in a 330ml bottle often has a higher alcohol %, normally making up the standard drinks to the same as 375ml bottle. I figured it had something to do with the alcohol taxing in this country. Urban myth?


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## SJW (8/4/08)

CUB, Fosters, Carlton all the big brewers


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## Tony (8/4/08)

Ahhhh yes the "P" word.

Pathetic isnt it.

A few things have always amazed me....... beer with "dry" in the name always seems to be more expensive, even though it would use less ingredients to make and the alcahol is produced with an enzyme

Or the whole "low carb" crap. Isnt a low carb beer one that has been firmented to a lower final gravity?

there for it costs less to produce, but people (i didnt say we ) get charged more for it. And Isnt alcahol a form of carbohydrate that has 3 or 4 times the calories of ordinary carbs?

please corect me if im wrong but this is my understanding


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## Dave86 (8/4/08)

You're dead right, alcohol is energy rich but a 5% abv beer that finishes at 1.002 versus one that finishes at 1.012 is going to be lower calorie due to the fact there is less calories left in the beer. Potential energy leaves the fermenter via CO2 and heat, thats my nerdy chemistry understanding of the process anyway


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## alexbrand (8/4/08)

MaltChew said:


> What makes a beer premium?



I think just seven letters on the label - and sometimes seven letters more on the crown cap...

Alex

PS: All my beers are premium...of course they are...


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## dc59 (8/4/08)

boingk said:


> Personally I'm a fan of the Independant Breweries of Australia - they put out such numbers like Haagen Lager, a recent commercial favourite due to it being $29 a case, 5%, and drinkable. I'm sure it has the word premium somewhere on the bottle as well, haha. Well, that was my first commercial case of beer in over a year, so there we are.
> 
> Now back to brewing!!!
> 
> Cheers - boingk



Haagen are my favourite commercial beer as well, one of the few I think are worth drinking. Plus the bottle is extremely sexy, and green by the way. I collect them for the beers I decide to bottle.

There are 5% alc. and labelled premium, not really sure what has made it premium, sure tastes nice though.


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## 0M39A (8/4/08)

Tony said:


> Ahhhh yes the "P" word.
> 
> Pathetic isnt it.
> 
> ...



You'll also find that most "low carb" beers are also lower in alcohol as well. usually 4.5% or less.


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## Tony (8/4/08)

fair enough...... i stand corected. They are still crap though!


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## oldbugman (8/4/08)

0M39A said:


> You'll also find that most "low carb" beers are also lower in alcohol as well. usually 4.5% or less.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/myth-o...1801094691.html



> A traditional beer such as Tooheys Old contains 156 kilojoules per 100 millilitres - only 30 kilojoules more than Hahn Super Dry at 126 kilojoules per 100 millilitres. Tooheys Old also has a lower alcohol content, which nutritionists say is far more important than the carb content.


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## mje1980 (9/4/08)

I have noticed crown lager has started running ads in the sunday papers. An absolute farce i reckon. Pure marketing, nothing else. I would much rather drink the $30 haagen stuff than crown, i mean its pretty flavourless, but it doesnt get advertised as something its not. Crown is terrible, regardless if its bottled or on tap. However, its funny that a lot of people fall for the hype. I see people drinking it, and feel sorry for them. 

A few years ago, i was at the local german club drinking a fantastic dunkel, and i saw 2 guys at the bar, less than a metre from the fancy font, drinking that shit. Made me laugh. 

That's my anti commercial beer rant over, cant wait to crack a schwarzbier tonight!!!


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## lagers44 (9/4/08)

I agree with Alexbrand , all homebrewers make PREMIUM beers , don't we ?


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## troydo (9/4/08)

mje1980, a similar storey here, i was at the german club on oktoberfest weekedn, and a guy asks for a xxxx gold, they say they dont have any and he was P!ssed off!

Stupid people


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## damoncouper (9/4/08)

Crown lager is rubbish, end of story.


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## petesbrew (9/4/08)

Think I'll name my next brew "Extra Cold Premium (insert style here)".
Might interest tasteless friends to try it.
Actually, the name doesn't inspire me to brew it.... scratch that idea.


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## hughman666 (9/4/08)

Troydo said:


> mje1980, a similar storey here, i was at the german club on oktoberfest weekedn, and a guy asks for a xxxx gold, they say they dont have any and he was P!ssed off!
> 
> Stupid people



slightly off-topic, i was down at margaret river over easter and stopped by the bootleg for a pint. there was a bloke sitting over from us who was just finishing off what looked like their settler's pale and said to his friends "that's the worst f***ing beer i have ever had" which was met with mutual grumbles of agreement from his mates, before they got up and left. saw them in town later in the evening drinking pure blondes on tap at the margaret river hotel.

ah......


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## Adric Hunter (9/4/08)

well I know that Boags Premium is just Boags draught in a green, slightly smaller bottle, that has been lagered for an extra month.


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## lowtech (9/4/08)

Adric Hunter said:


> well I know that Boags Premium is just Boags draught in a green, slightly smaller bottle, that has been lagered for an extra month.



And a few years ago a beer called Empire lager was around.$27 bucks a carton and no one bought it.
Now its relabeled Pure Blonde at $40 plus a carton and sheep buy it en masse.
What a strange ol world.


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## snagler (9/4/08)

Perhaps we should feel sorry for ourselves too.

Before I discovered AG I was happily quaffing "premium" beers and such with the mates knowing no different, the pub is now less attractive to me. Even the missus now cant stand her old favourite tooheys extra dry

Ignorance is bliss


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## enoch (9/4/08)

Gerard_M said:


> I was told not to drink beers with any of the following words on the labelremium, Dry, Cold filtered, Extra.



Should add Pure and/or Blonde to the list.


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## geoffi (9/4/08)

hughman666 said:


> slightly off-topic, i was down at margaret river over easter and stopped by the bootleg for a pint. there was a bloke sitting over from us who was just finishing off what looked like their settler's pale and said to his friends "that's the worst f***ing beer i have ever had" which was met with mutual grumbles of agreement from his mates, before they got up and left. saw them in town later in the evening drinking pure blondes on tap at the margaret river hotel.
> 
> ah......




It was probably the only real f***ing beer he'd ever had.

It never ceases to amazing me how the average Australian has this self-image as a beer expert, but their idea of 'beer' begins with VB and ends with extra dry/blonde/wtf...

I vividly remember sitting in a pub in London with a bunch of Aussies whose main topic of conversation was how much better Australian beer was than the local stuff. They sucked down Fosters (yes...believe it or not), while I enjoyed the exquisite ales. You can lead an Aussie to real ale, but you can't make him stop drinking cat's piss.


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## geoffi (9/4/08)

lowtech said:


> And a few years ago a beer called Empire lager was around.$27 bucks a carton and no one bought it.
> Now its relabeled Pure Blonde at $40 plus a carton and sheep buy it en masse.
> What a strange ol world.




OMG...Empire Lager...a crime against brewing if ever there was.


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## randyrob (9/4/08)

Geoffi said:


> You can lead an Aussie to real ale, but you can't make him stop drinking cat's piss.




:super: GOLD!!


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## 0M39A (9/4/08)

Adric Hunter said:


> well I know that Boags Premium is just Boags draught in a green, slightly smaller bottle, that has been lagered for an extra month.



nah, boags premium is a slightly different beer.

that said though, i prefer the taste of the "draught" to the premium.


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## winkle (9/4/08)

enoch said:


> Should add Pure and/or Blonde to the list.



And "Ice" , although that seems to be becoming extinct (Darwin might be right)


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## jdsaint (9/4/08)

but here we are, making brew at home, while the commercial brewries are raking in the cash, for what you blokes say is crap, while we, or well me work a 40 more hour week, and can afford to down A COLD earned anything blonde, hahn super dry, heineken , and or carlsberg, I do love the ocasional coopers pale ale, my point is that we are still brewing in fermenters cause we have not broke the retail brew world, to rake in the trillions. BUt when we do I am sure your brew will be copping a crap rating on this site, dont knock them till you beat them.


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## Beer Guy (9/4/08)

mmmm i remember sitting in a meeting with a brewery that was going to relaunch and revive a brand they spent years trying to kill off saying that they will charge more so people think it's better. Then they started throwing around premium , imported and super premium as the emerging centers of profitibility in beer


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## peas_and_corn (9/4/08)

The phrase 'super premium' brings images of a stubbie with a superman cape on


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## sponge (9/4/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> The phrase 'super premium' brings images of a stubbie with a superman cape on



Don't say that too loud... the megaswill breweries might hear u and that will be their new "premium, extra, blonde, dry....etc"


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## Adamt (9/4/08)

jdsaint said:


> dont knock them till you beat them.



We knock them (megabreweries) all the time, for making mildly different, bland, dry lagers (some drier than others and labelled low carb) and spouting them off under different brand names. If beer was able to be a dry lager and nothing else, I would admit defeat to the megabreweries and likely this forum would be dead as very few would have the passion to brew tasteless crap.

However, megabreweries' premium beers are often uncannily close to their budget brothers and sisters, with little reason (apart from inflated promotion, marketing and fancy bottles) to be so expensive comparatively.


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## Tony (9/4/08)

jdsaint said:


> but here we are, making brew at home, while the commercial brewries are raking in the cash, for what you blokes say is crap, while we, or well me work a 40 more hour week, and can afford to down A COLD earned anything blonde, hahn super dry, heineken , and or carlsberg, I do love the ocasional coopers pale ale, my point is that we are still brewing in fermenters cause we have not broke the retail brew world, to rake in the trillions. BUt when we do I am sure your brew will be copping a crap rating on this site, dont knock them till you beat them.



I can...... I have ...... and i will again!

My Dad worked for a megaswill mob starting with "T" for most of my life. HE is a beer and wine conosur (spelling) and loves a good drop. there is always a fine bottle of wine or well aged spirit to drink when there. He is my most honest critic and admits i make better beer than any premium beer on the market. 
I have been told a few times...... this is better than james squire.



Adamt said:


> We knock them (megabreweries) all the time, for making mildly different, bland, dry lagers (some drier than others and labelled low carb) and spouting them off under different brand names. If beer was able to be a dry lager and nothing else, I would admit defeat to the megabreweries and likely this forum would be dead as very few would have the passion to brew tasteless crap.
> 
> However, megabreweries' premium beers are often uncannily close to their budget brothers and sisters, with little reason (apart from inflated promotion, marketing and fancy bottles) to be so expensive comparatively.



I couldnt have said it better myself.

I dont mind the comercial beers....... but i cant drink may of them. A mate of mine left a 6 pack of crownies here a while back and i ended up taking them fishing with him and feeding them back to him. Even my wife said they were shit and she had never tasted one and had no pre misconceptions!

My brother came over once and had a couple of beers from my tap and went home. He popped up on MSM messenger and called me a bastard. All he had in his fridge was Hahn Premium (Hersbrucker????????????) and said it tasted like shit after drinking AG ales at my place. And it cost 5 times more to buy.

thats my bit.

cheers


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## lobo (9/4/08)

thankyou tony, 

there is nothing that annoys me more than going to a pub and getting hot blond bimbos (well not that part of it, dont get the wrong idea!) that say, 'try this low carb beer, it has 1 third of the carbs than any other beer in this pub'. i look at them and say, it wont change any blokes waistlines by changing beers, as the alcahol makes up for the difference in carbs. then they just smile at me and move onto the next half pissed sucker, and guess what, they see boobs and switch beers!

you cant change the world.

Lobo


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## boingk (9/4/08)

sponge said:


> Don't say that too loud... the megaswill breweries might hear u and that will be their new "premium, extra, blonde, dry....etc"



[rant]

Too late isn't it? That Hahn Super whatever...with all those idiotic adds about protecting your beer? WTF?!?! Its such a wimp of a beer that it needs protecting? JESUS! What is the world coming to? Protecting a beer...I'll protect my hard-earned non-shit-tasting homebrew in my goddamn stomach thankyou very much...

[/rant]

By the way Tony, I know how your brother feels...mine is the same way! Was over at his place, stuffing around watching tv and calling mates for a party later on. Anyway, I'd got him into brewing a few months before then left for uni. I asked what he drank now, and if he'd like me to pick up a case for the night ahead. He replied that since he started brewing he thinks that "VB and everything is poison, I can't drink it anymore...I just drink homebrew now." SCORE ONE FOR THE GOOD GUYS!

EDIT: Lobo - we are changing the world: one homebrewer at a time!


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## Tony (9/4/08)

BOOBS........... did someone say boobs?????????

I just cant imagine an australian beer company using boobs to sell crap beer. It just WOULD NOT HAPPEN!!!


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## Thirsty Boy (10/4/08)

Well.... not that I'm any particular fan of the "premium" tag myself, nor of the beers that usually get the label, but actually there is a reason for it. I have no experience of the other 40 or so percent of the mega beer market in Australia, but for the 55% I work for its this - 

Commercial beers have quality specs - eg Tint = 12.3 +/- 1.0 or OG = 13.7 +/- 0.2 etc etc for IBUs' Carbontation, O2 levels and everything else you can think of.

For a premium beer... that +/- range is tighter, it must be closer to the intended brew in order to make the grade.

Also - standard beers are often blended with what is charmingly known as "reclaim" this is the beer that is saved from the bottom of tanks, chased out of the pipework, left over after packaging runs are completed etc etc. Rather than throw it away (nothing wrong with it) its collected into a tank and blended back into the "pure" beers at differing rates depending on the brand.

Premium Beers are usually "pure" beers and are not blended with reclaim beer at all.

Most Aussie mega lager is bittered with strictly ISO hop extract - Premium beers often include real hops in pellet form. Its not a "rule" because while atm all our premium beers do have hops, they dont always & not all the beers that get real hops are called premium beers.

One or two of the premium beers are "all malt" while almost all the other beers (as you are well aware) contain a quite high proportion of sugar adjunct, even if it is nowhere near as high a proportion as people usually say.

In short - considering what you are comparing them against - they are called premium beers because they ARE premium beers. They are of a higher standard, purer to their recipes and use slightly better ingredients. More care is taken with them and they cost more to make.

NOT - mind you that I think that makes them particularly good beers, its just that they don't necessarily get their premium tag for the "no reason at all apart from the fancy label and the price tag" .... that seems to be the general consensus in this thread so far.

Oh - and while it _was_ a crime against beer, Empire lager was NOT rebranded into Pure Blond. Right idea, different beer. And Low carb beers..... more expensive to make, different techniques, actually do contain less calories than a beer with the equivalent ABV and the object of the game is at any rate NOT to contain less _calories_ ... it's to contain less carbohydrates. Hence calling them low carbohydrate beer rather than low calorie beer. And thats exactly what they do. I still don't like them and think that they have little point, but they are in fact what they claim to be (apart from the tasting good bits)

Now, after we have a better understanding of what we are talking about - back to bashing the damn things because they for the most part don't taste very good and we can do a lot better at home .......

Thirsty


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## brettprevans (10/4/08)

Thanks Tony and Thirsty. Always love reading something that is written by people that actualy know what they are talking about (not to say that no one else knew what they were talking about). I agree that the idea of 'premium' is usually marketing and branding but I would drinking most 'premium' beers over a non premium beer any day (if cost wasnt a factor). You cant tell me that most of the premium beers dont taste better than the non premium? (ok TED Platnum tastes like feremted arse juice - there are always exceptions to the rule).

yes our stuff is better, but the megabreweries are to a point making what the megaswill general public wants. 

oh hang on back on topic... what makes a premium beer premium - better ingredients IMO. it should be worth the extra money you pay. it should taste better and have costed the makers more to make. it like wagyu beef being premium beef. it costs more and is better than say blade steak. 

EDIT: actually wagyu is probably more like Duvel or the like, lets say eye fillet.


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## petesbrew (10/4/08)

boingk said:


> [rant]
> 
> Too late isn't it? That Hahn Super whatever...with all those idiotic adds about protecting your beer? WTF?!?! Its such a wimp of a beer that it needs protecting? JESUS! What is the world coming to? Protecting a beer...I'll protect my hard-earned non-shit-tasting homebrew in my goddamn stomach thankyou very much...
> 
> [/rant]


I saw that ad on telly last night (actually paid attention halfway thru as I saw it was advertising beer), and thought WTF?
I still laughed.

I'll always take the piss out of their beers, but applaud their funny ads. But those "Who is James Boags?" ones are crap.


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## lobo (10/4/08)

i know i might not know exactly what im talking about, but my rant was about the fact they try to put accross that the beer is so much better for you, when its marginally better. 70%less carbs. and (probably) 10%less calories. ur still gunna be a fat bastard if you smash down these beers. you will just be killing your taste buds off.

anyone know the calorie count for certain beers?

lobo


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