# Style Of The Week 24/10/07 - Belgian Pale Ale



## Stuster (24/10/07)

A beer that's easy to make in the heat and great to drink in the heat as well. Belgian Pale ale is not really a proper style as far as Belgian brewers are concerned, but it's a handy term to cover those lower gravity beers that Belgian breweries make. Since they are lower gravity than many Belgian beers, they make better session beers (unless you enjoy waking up in the front garden  ).

So what are your experiences with this style? Grains? Hops? Yeasts? Extract and bits? Kits (fresh wort or otherwise)? Commercial examples available here?

Some links
Jamil's show on BPAs
NY Times article on BPAs

Tell us all you know so we can make some stunning beers. :chug: 

From here.



> 16B. Belgian Pale Ale
> 
> Aroma: Prominent aroma of malt with moderate fruity character and low hop aroma. Toasty, biscuity malt aroma. May have an orange- or pear-like fruitiness though not as fruity/citrusy as many other Belgian ales. Distinctive floral or spicy, low to moderate strength hop character optionally blended with background level peppery, spicy phenols. No diacetyl.
> 
> ...


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## warrenlw63 (24/10/07)

Aha!! What a perfect springboard to launch a campaign for Wyeast to bring back 3538 Leuven Pale Ale. Great strain for this style but sadly discontinued. Also tried TDA's Flyblown Blonde made with the very same strain. Was superb.

This recipe worked exceptionally well for me.  

Alimenter le Spcial de Rue

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

16-B Belgian & French Ale, Belgian Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.054
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 20 Max Clr: 36 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 47.00 Wort Size (L): 47.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.60
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.97
Anticipated EBC: 15.7
Anticipated IBU: 27.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.3 0.60 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 100
31.3 3.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
52.1 5.00 kg. Baird's Golden Promise Pale A UK 1.037 7
10.4 1.00 kg. Baird's Maris Otter Pale Ale UK 1.037 7

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
57.20 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 4.50 0.0 0 min.
50.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 7.20 25.2 60 min.
14.30 g. Goldings - Kent Plug 5.20 1.0 10 min.
14.30 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 4.50 0.8 10 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3538 Leuven Pale Ale

Warren -


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## newguy (24/10/07)

A sadly underappreciated style. Here's a very simple recipe that earned me a gold medal this past June. Enjoy.

40 litre batch.

5.85 kg Cargill special pale malt (any pale 2 row malt will do - thiis particular malt is just a tiny shade darker than ordinary pale malt)
2.79 kg munich malt

Doughed in with 30 litres of water, mashed @ 150F (65.6C) 80 minutes, brought up to 167F (75C) for mashout. Sparged with 35.5 litres of water @ 75C.

90 minute boil.

77 g East Kent Goldings pellets (aa = 5.5%) for 90 minutes (23 IBU).

OG 1.056
FG 1.012

Wyeast 3864 Canadian Belgian pitched @ 72F (22C). Fermented @ 20 - 22C 21 days, then kegged & force carbonated.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (24/10/07)

I am in thorough agreeance with Warren. The Leuven Ale yeast makes a cracker of a beer and this BPA I made below did not last more than 2 weeks in the keg back in March during some hot Adelaide weather. 
I recommend using plugs or flowers as well to add some more oomph to the flavour of your BPA's. Combined with the spiciness of the yeast it was a really nice drop IMHO  

1.50 kg JW Vienna Malt 
1.50 kg Weyermann Pilsner 
1.00 kg BB Galaxy Pale Malt 
1.00 kg Weyermann Munich I 
0.20 kg Weyermann Caraamber 
36.00 gm EKG's [5.80%] (60 min) Plugs 25.0 IBU 
40.00 gm Hersbrucker [2.50%] (15 min) Plugs 3.2 IBU 
1 Pkgs Leuven Ale Yeast(Wyeast Labs) Yeast-Ale 

OG 1049
IBU's 28.2
23 litre batch.

I have another Belgian Pale conditioning in the fridge as we speak, this time using the Schelde Ale yeast. The yeast gave me really good attenuation so I am expecting the resulting brew will be a great thirst quencher.

Favourite Lady Pale Belgian 
Belgian Pale Ale 


Type: All Grain
Date: 9/10/2007 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Mark Rasheed 
Boil Size: 30.3 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Marks Equipment 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 


Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg JWM Export Pilsner (3.9 EBC) Grain 67.3 % 
1.00 kg Weyermann Vienna (7.9 EBC) Grain 19.2 % 
0.50 kg Weyermann Munich II (23.6 EBC) Grain 9.6 % 
0.20 kg Weyermann Melanoidin (70.9 EBC) Grain 3.8 % 
42.00 gm Styrian Goldings Plugs [4.60%] (60 min) Hops 23.1 IBU 
28.00 gm Styrian Goldings Plugs [4.60%] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU 
1 Pkgs Schelde Ale (Wyeast Labs) Yeast-Ale 

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Bitterness: 27.2 IBU 
Est Color: 13.0 EBC 

I have brewed two other belgian Pale Ales always keeping the OG around the 1050 mark.
With one of them I used around 5% sugar in the grist and the 1388 Strong Belgian Ale yeast.
That brew wound up far too dry, almost like a megaswill lager. I think sugar or any of those
adjuncts such as honey or candy syrup are NOT suited to these beers. Let the yeast do it's thing.
The other brew was made with 1762 and IIRC I home roasted some malt as well. I will check my
recipe database when I get home and post that. It was well received by some well known Adelaide
brewers.

A great style for summer methinks :beer: .

C&B
TDA

Edit: Spelling


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## Stuster (24/10/07)

That looks great, Warren. What did you get from this yeast, then?

This was one I did a while ago. Basically modelled on one by Randy Mosher. A bit out of style :unsure: :lol: due to the spices and the sugar. I can't imagine using that much melanoidin now, but this one came out very nicely IMO. 

Belgian Pale Ale
1.8kg JW Trad Ale
1.4kg Powells Munich
450g Hoepfner Melanoidin
150g JW Crystal 145EBC
680g Cane Sugar, cooked up in saucepan until browning occurs
NZ Hallertau Organic [email protected]
Styrian Goldings [email protected]
Zest of two oranges, 1 star anise, 11g ground coriander seeds

Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale
Batch size 23L
OG 1047
FG 1006
IBU 26
EBC 18

Edit: I think you are right about the sugar, TDA. The only thing that saved this beer from dryness was probably the large amount of melanoidin and having cooked the sugar. When I make a BPA again, I'll probably go for something much more like yours and Warren's. Styrians are great in this style though IMO.


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## warrenlw63 (24/10/07)

Stuster said:


> That looks great, Warren. What did you get from this yeast, then?



Good restrained fruitiness and spicy, subtle clovey phenols for complexity. Think its greatest asset was the great attenuation. Made a very crisp Belgian Pale that combined with Styrian Golding plugs was a great summer beer.

Just haven't found a Belgian strain similar really. <_< Dunno what Wyeast were thinking.

Warren -


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## Thommo (24/10/07)

Warren and TDA,

As someone who has never brewed anything Belgian yet, what yeasts would you now use that the Leuven Ale is no longer available. I assume the T58 would be the dried choice, but what's the first one you reach for now when making a Belgian Pale?

This is on my to do list for this summer. I was also toying with the idea of submitting one to the NSW Xmas 2007 case swap.

Cheers,
Thommo.


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## warrenlw63 (24/10/07)

Thommo said:


> Warren and TDA,
> 
> As someone who has never brewed anything Belgian yet, what yeasts would you now use that the Leuven Ale is no longer available. I assume the T58 would be the dried choice, but what's the first one you reach for now when making a Belgian Pale?
> 
> ...



Hey Thommo. Probably second in line for me would be Wyeast 3522 (Belgian Ardennes). Never tried T58.

Warren -


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (24/10/07)

Thommo said:


> Warren and TDA,
> 
> As someone who has never brewed anything Belgian yet, what yeasts would you now use that the Leuven Ale is no longer available. I assume the T58 would be the dried choice, but what's the first one you reach for now when making a Belgian Pale?
> 
> ...



Thommo, I've brewed 4 Belgian Pales with 4 different yeasts. I would probably start with the 1762 as it is a good yeast to use in some of your trappist type beers as well. If you can wait I could tell you what the Schelde yeast is like and possibly send a sample off to you to try.
I will be emailing Wyeast again and ask them to *"BRING BACK THE LEUVEN"*

C&B
TDA


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## Stuster (24/10/07)

I've made a BPA with the Schelde yeast (thanks to neonmeate for the yeast  ). It was a very nice yeast IMO, relatively clean for a Belgian yeast with lots of biscuity/toasty flavours. Worked very well IMO. I used it on a double batch, half with a saison yeast and half with this one. Completely different beers, and this one was balanced much more towards the malt, even though it attenuated very well.

Schelde Pale Ale
3kg JW Trad ale
2kg W'mann Vienna
2kg JW Wheat
100g W'mann acidulated
100g JW Crystal wheat	
Mashed at 64C.
4g CaSO4 for mash, 6g CaSO4 for kettle	
Mt. Hood (3.7%) [email protected]
Magnum (13.0%) [email protected]
Mt. Hood [email protected], [email protected] 
Wyeast 3655 Schelde ale
Batch size 38L
OG 1053
FG 1006

EBC 10.6	
IBU 32.4


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## kabooby (24/10/07)

Have not brewed a BPA before but just used the WLP550 for a Belgian I did for the NSW xmas case. The white labs site says its good for a lot of belgian styles. 

WLP550 Belgian Ale Yeast
Saisons, Belgian Ales, Belgian Reds, Belgian Browns, and White beers are just a few of the classic Belgian beer styles that can be created with this yeast strain. Phenolic and spicy flavors dominate the profile, with less fruitiness then WLP500.
Attenuation: 78-85%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 68-78F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High

Kabooby


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## wee stu (24/10/07)

I've wondered for a while whether BPA would be a viable class, *on its own*, in ANAWBS (Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show).

Obviously there are some fans (warren, TDA, newguy, evil stu(ster) and me). 

Short of throwing it to a another thread and a poll, just wondering how many people hitting this thread think they might be willing to brew for a comp class based solely on that style. I reckon it would be a great clas to judge, not that I am allowed to under bjcp rules (as comp organiser).


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## tangent (24/10/07)




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## Stuster (24/10/07)

wee stu said:


> I've wondered for a while whether BPA would be a viable class, *on its own*, in ANAWBS (Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show).



I think it's a great idea. There seem to be a fair number of Belgians being brewed these days, with the popularity of Belgian beers ATM. There are several kits on the market that suggest that it's not just an AHB or just an AG thing.

Mash paddle? :beerbang:


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## roger mellie (24/10/07)

Have been considering one of these for a while - interesting thread.

The Wyeast site list the 3787 as the replacement for the Leuven 

Any comments on that Waren? Have you tried the 3787?

Cheers

RM


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## razz (24/10/07)

I kegged this back in Feb this year, the last keg went last week.  I managed to get 6 bottles out of it just before it went and their still in the fridge.  
50% Pils malt
20% Light munich
20% Dark munich
5% melanoidin
5% C/munich 1
60 gms cascade @ 60mins
30 gms cascade @ 20mins
WLP500 Trappist ale yeast @ 18 degrees
Dry hopped with 1 plug of Hallertau Mitt in each keg for 7 days.
BU 34.7 GU 54 Ratio 0.64

I got the recipe from the Northern Brewer web site. Phat tyre amber ale.
Lovely malt flavour and hops.


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (24/10/07)

The first time I went to WCB, it was a pale ale comp night, so I entered my first competition and won with a Bpa,
( I think they let the new boys win at least once).

Vlads Belgian pale ale


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## warrenlw63 (24/10/07)

roger mellie said:


> Any comments on that Waren? Have you tried the 3787?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RM



Only used 3787 once RM. To be honest with you the resultant beer wasn't too flash (Trappist). That being said it could well have been brewer error. :blink: 

Warren -


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## Gough (24/10/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Only used 3787 once RM. To be honest with you the resultant beer wasn't too flash (Trappist). That being said it could well have been brewer error. :blink:
> 
> Warren -



We brew a commercial version of the style and ours has improved considerably since moving to the Wyeast 3787. Definitely worth a try in this style in my opinion.

Shawn.


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## TidalPete (24/10/07)

wee stu said:


> I've wondered for a while whether BPA would be a viable class, *on its own*, in ANAWBS (Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show).
> 
> Obviously there are some fans (warren, TDA, newguy, evil stu(ster) and me).
> 
> Short of throwing it to a another thread and a poll, just wondering how many people hitting this thread think they might be willing to brew for a comp class based solely on that style. I reckon it would be a great clas to judge, not that I am allowed to under bjcp rules (as comp organiser).



Not sure if I would be interested in brewing for a comp Stu (?) but would like to encourage all possible interest in this thread as I reckon BPA deserves more recognition & I need more recipe ideas for the future.  
Have just put down a BPA last Monday week using 3538 & another using SafBrew S33 last Monday. Am lucky enough to have 6 tubes of first generation 3538 Leuven left & you don't have to own acreage to be a (yeast) farmer. :lol: 
Really like this yeast so send that email to Wyeast WAD TDA.
Warren --- never tried the 3522 B.Ardennes yet but intend to.

TP :beer:


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## KillerRx4 (24/10/07)

I was going to post that off the top of my head ive done 10-20 belgian style beers with both wyeast 3787 & 3522 yeasts & that i like the 3787.

So I looked up my records.

17 belgians. 13 with 3787, 4 with 3522.

3787 ftw.


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## warrenlw63 (24/10/07)

TidalPete said:


> Am lucky enough to have 6 tubes of first generation 3538 Leuven left & you don't have to own acreage to be a (yeast) farmer. :lol:
> Really like this yeast so send that email to Wyeast WAD TDA.
> Warren --- never tried the 3522 B.Ardennes yet but intend to.
> 
> TP :beer:



Bugger that Pete weez emailing you!!  

Edit: Pete 3522 is a really nice strain that has a broad temperature spectrum. You can actually ferment it in the mid to late 20s.

Warren -


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## mobrien (25/10/07)

I brewed a belgian plae of sorts that is an excellent summer beer - I'll be doing another one for sure.

I used the 1762, and used the pale as a way to build up yeast numbers before doing a high gravity dubble - it was a great yeast for both (in my opinion) and I'll be using it again.

The reciepe I ended up with:

Recipe: GPA 7.0
Brewer: Matthew O'Brien
Asst Brewer: Al
Style: Belgian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 42.00 L 
Boil Size: 46.36 L
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 4.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.00 kg TF Golden Promise Pale Ale Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 57.14 % 
4.00 kg Weyermann Pilsner (2.0 SRM) Grain 38.10 % 
30.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60 %] (45 min) Hops 9.7 IBU 
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.40 %] (45 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.40 %] (30 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.40 %] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU 
45.00 gm Saaz [2.50 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
0.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4.76 % 
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 10.00 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 26.08 L of water at 78.1 C 67.8 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 14.60 L of water at 92.9 C 75.6 C


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## Trent (25/10/07)

I just did a belgian pale ale that is sitting in secondary. 
I used the Brweing Great Euro Beers at home recipe for de Koninck as a base 
4kg pils
1.3kg vienna
55g chocolate

bittered to 24IBU with saaz, and just cause I had some styrian, I threw them in at flameout, just to throw it out of style :lol:
I used a fresh smackpack of Wy3522, and it went crazy. I top cropped off that, 100mL of yeast, and pitched it into my next beer of 1080, and it fermented out in less than 3 days. It is a vigourous yeast, but I will soon give 3787 a try to see how that goes.
May I echo the sentiments of many here, and say that it is an under appreciated beer, but may I give a HUGE thumbs up to Murray's Brewing Co for actually getting Asutralia's only commercially available belgian pale style out there and on the shop shelves. People out there may not know it is a belgian pale style, but it's the first step in getting a beer like this the recognition and acceptance it deserves
All the best
Trent


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (25/10/07)

wee stu said:


> I've wondered for a while whether BPA would be a viable class, *on its own*, in ANAWBS (Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show).
> 
> Obviously there are some fans (warren, TDA, newguy, evil stu(ster) and me).
> 
> Short of throwing it to a another thread and a poll, just wondering how many people hitting this thread think they might be willing to brew for a comp class based solely on that style. I reckon it would be a great clas to judge, not that I am allowed to under bjcp rules (as comp organiser).



Gidday Wee Stu,

I would definately be in it if it becomes a class in ANAWBS :beerbang: 

To those others brewing this style of beer, get your emails into Wyeast requesting they re-release the 3538 Leuven Ale Yeast as one of there VSS releases. You will not be dissapointed.

C&B
TDA


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## warrenlw63 (25/10/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> To those others brewing this style of beer, get your emails into Wyeast requesting they re-release the 3538 Leuven Ale Yeast as one of there VSS releases. You will not be dissapointed.
> 
> C&B
> TDA



Did that TDA.

For the benefit of the masses this is the reply I received. Wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it anytime soon... I guess it really boils down to consumer demand. Our voice is obviously small.  

_Warren,



Thanks for the request! We have a number of strains buried deep in the archive that will see the light of day here in the next year or so. The 3538 Leuven Pale wont be back into rotation for a little while, so in the mean time I would suggest you trying our 3522 Belgian Ardennes strain. This should be perfect for that Belgian style beer that you will be brewing. If you have any need for assistance, please dont hesitate to drop me a line. Thanks and happy brewing!!



Brian Perkey

Wyeast Laboratories

_

Warren -


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## jayse (25/10/07)

I'am sad to say especially now after reading how great the leuven pale ale yeast is that I wasted mine, damn.
Got a pack and smacked it and planned to brew a pale ale but got in a rut and didn't brew for awhile so shoved it back in the cool room only to find it months and months later exploded.
Might be able to scrap a dried sample of it off the roof if anyone wants it? extra funk thrown in for free :lol: 

Excellent choice of style of the week, I really shouldn't speak here after what i just admitted too since the yeast is not available anymore.




Stuster said:


> snipped>
> 
> Belgian Pale ale is not really a proper style as far as Belgian brewers are concerned.



Brew like a monk sums it up nicely in chapter ten fairly in depth I think in how he calls it the 's' word and how helpfull they are for comunicating in words different types of beer. :lol: 
In that respect I think its just as much a style of beer as any other and i don't think anyone could argue with that.
As far as belgian brewers I don't think the old school ones would think of any beer as actually a style, its just a beer that they have been making for as long as they can remember and been past down to them etc etc.



wee stu said:


> snipped>
> I reckon it would be a great clas to judge, not that I am allowed to under bjcp rules (as comp organiser).



I think there is a way a organiser can be allowed if I recall as long as you don't know who has entered that class and whos beers they are if I remember rightly.




wee stu said:


> I've wondered for a while whether BPA would be a viable class, *on its own*, in ANAWBS (Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show).
> 
> Obviously there are some fans (warren, TDA, newguy, evil stu(ster) and me).






Stuster said:


> I think it's a great idea. There seem to be a fair number of Belgians being brewed these days, with the popularity of Belgian beers ATM. There are several kits on the market that suggest that it's not just an AHB or just an AG thing.
> 
> Mash paddle? :beerbang:



I seem to remember BPA was a beer style thrown up in the air after last years mash paddle as a great beer for that comp.

I think its a great idea.


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## TidalPete (25/10/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> get your emails into Wyeast requesting they re-release the 3538 Leuven Ale Yeast as one of there VSS releases.
> 
> TDA



Done!

TP :beer:


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## Stuster (25/10/07)

jayse said:


> Brew like a monk sums it up nicely in chapter ten fairly in depth I think in how he calls it the 's' word and how helpfull they are for comunicating in words different types of beer. :lol:
> In that respect I think its just as much a style of beer as any other and i don't think anyone could argue with that.
> As far as belgian brewers I don't think the old school ones would think of any beer as actually a style, its just a beer that they have been making for as long as they can remember and been past down to them etc etc.



Good points. I thought that BLAM explanation was great. It really nailed how styles are important, but why they shouldn't stop brewers doing what they want.


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## wee stu (25/10/07)

jayse said:


> I think there is a way a organiser can be allowed if I recall as long as you don't know who has entered that class and whos beers they are if I remember rightly.
> I seem to remember BPA was a beer style thrown up in the air after last years mash paddle as a great beer for that comp.
> 
> I think its a great idea.



Having recently lodged the ANAWBS BJCP report (hopefully your points have been notified to you Jayse) as organiser, judging seems strictly verboten. Leastways you can't get any points for it.

The Mash Paddle for 2008 is currently the subject of some intense (and as yet confidential) debate B)

Whether it secures the paddle or not, I am encouraged to think there may be room for considering BPA as one of the 3 or 4 new *style specific * (whether BPA is actually a style or not!!) classes for ANAWBS 2008. I sense it is a class we wouldn't have too much difficulty recruiting judges for


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## Steve (11/8/08)

Having never brewed a Belgian before is the BPA a good introductory beer to this style? Only tasted a belgian once a couple of years ago. My mate had one and gave me a taste. It was in a white bottle and was very bugglegummy and very strong. No idea what it was called. Anyway thinking of brewing something different from my usual apa's, bitters and pilsners. Actually just remembered kabooby and another chap had a couple of Belgians in last years NSW Xmas Case. They were beautiful. Is the WLP that kabooby used a good start or should I try one of the wyeasts?
Cheers
Steve


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## kabooby (11/8/08)

Hey Steve,

Belgian Pale ale is a great place to start. The WLP550 yeast I used would be great for a BPA.

I haven't tried any of the Wyeast Belgian strains, but I am sure they would do a great job.

I am planning on Brewing this one soon

Batch Size: 40.00 L 
Boil Size: 49.61 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 23.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.00 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)Grain 81.40 % 
1.00 kg Vienna Malt (Joe White) (12.0 EBC) Grain 11.63 % 
0.30 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 3.49 % 
0.30 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 3.49 % 
30.00 gm Target [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU 
25.00 gm Fuggles [6.10 %] (15 min) Hops 4.7 IBU 
1 Pkgs Belgian Ale (White Labs #WLP550) Yeast-Ale 


Kabooby :icon_cheers:


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## Steve (13/8/08)

Any comments on the below for a double batch of BPA?

6kg Wey Pils
1.5kg Munich I
0.5kg BB Wheat
0.5kg Marris Otter
0.5kg Vienna
0.3kg Brown Sugar
0.05kg Roast Malt

EKG @ 45 mins and Liberty at 10 mins to 25 IBU's

WLP550

How does this sound? Go easy please.
Cheers
Steve


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## petesbrew (13/8/08)

Having just brewed a BPA for my 2nd All grain attempt, I'd like to try it against a commercial version, but the ones listed are a bit hard to come by. 
Anyone know of any others easily found at Dan's or 1st Choice?


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## Weizguy (14/8/08)

petesbrew said:


> Having just brewed a BPA for my 2nd All grain attempt, I'd like to try it against a commercial version, but the ones listed are a bit hard to come by.
> Anyone know of any others easily found at Dan's or 1st Choice?


Try the paler LaTrappe or Chimay ales, as there is no BPA style. Also, you could have a go at the Unibroue range of beer, especially the Maudite!


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## Stuster (28/8/08)

Must have missed your recipe earlier, Steve. I'd say that the couple I've made have been clear and were fine to drink more or less straight away but did improve a little with age as well.

Edit: Where's your post gone, Steve? :blink:


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## Steve (28/8/08)

Stuster said:


> Must have missed your recipe earlier, Steve. I'd say that the couple I've made have been clear and were fine to drink more or less straight away but did improve a little with age as well.
> 
> Edit: Where's your post gone, Steve? :blink:




I deleted it as I read your very first post with the description. It answered my question.
Cheers though!
Steve


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## therook (14/11/08)

Having a go at my first Belgian on the weekend

Your thoughts and what is the best way to use this yeast

Belgian Pale
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 16/11/2008 
Style: Belgian Pale Ale Brewer: Rook 
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Volume: 33.60 L Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % 


Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 75.0 % 
0.70 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (22.0 EBC) Grain 11.7 % 
0.50 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (7.0 EBC) Grain 8.3 % 
0.30 kg Caraamber (Weyermann) (70.9 EBC) Grain 5.0 % 
50.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.30%] (90 min) Hops 23.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [2.00%] (15 min) Hops 3.0 IBU 
1.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1.00 gm Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Belgian Ardennes (Wyeast Labs #3522) Yeast-Wheat 

Mash at 65c

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.053 SG (1.048-1.054 SG) 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.013 SG (1.010-1.014 SG) 
Estimated Color: 14.0 EBC (15.8-27.6 EBC) 
Bitterness: 26.3 IBU (20.0-30.0 IBU) 
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.1 % (4.8-5.5 %) 


Rook


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## Trent (14/11/08)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Try the paler LaTrappe or Chimay ales, as there is no BPA style. Also, you could have a go at the Unibroue range of beer, especially the Maudite!



No BPA style, Les? What about DeKoninck, or, dare I say, Murrays Sassy Blonde? Both thoroughly enjoyable beers. Shame on you...
T.
EDIT PS Rook - the recipe looks good, I would up the chloride and drop the gypsum a little, but thats just me (and I would omit the epsom salts). I would pitch the yeast at about 21C and let it ferment out at 22 or 23C.


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## warrenlw63 (14/11/08)

Looks nice Rook... 

As for the Ardennes yeast? Pitch it at 22 degrees and let it rise over a couple of days to 25 degrees (otherwise it can be a lazy performer). When the krausen drops you could even raise it a couple of more degrees to finish if you want.

Warren -


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## bindi (14/11/08)

From the Wyeast Site.

One of many great beer yeast to produce classic Belgian ales. Phenolics develop with increased fermentation temperatures, mild fruitiness and complex spicy character.

Origin:
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 72-76%
Temperature Range: 65-85 F (18-29 C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 12% ABV

Nice.


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## A3k (24/3/09)

Hi All,

I'm intending on brewing this recipe below this weekend. It's based as close to a Brewing Classic Styles recipe as possible.

I really wanted to use the 3522 yeast, but can't the HBS is out at the moment. 
Wyeast suggest 3942 Belgian Wheat as a replacement. The write up doesnt seem as appealing to me. But if I did use this I could do a Wit Beer after. Any good in a Wit?

The recipe actually called for the Luven ale I think (dont have the book on me at the moment). And as everyone seems to love it, maybe I should try the 3787, which Ive read here is suppose to be the replacement.

My worry with the 3787 is that it mentions intense esters etc. Brewing Classic Styles mentions that the esters should be restrained.

Should I use the 3787 and just ferment it at a lower temp.


Sorry for the rant. Just got lots of thoughts, and have never brewed a Belgian before.

Cheers,
Al



Recipe: Belgian Pale
Brewer: Al
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Belgian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.04 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 8.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.10 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 91.89 % 
0.34 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM) Grain 6.13 % 
0.11 kg Amber Malt, Bairds (60.9 SRM) Grain 1.98 % 
48.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (60 min) Hops 26.2 IBU 
9.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (0 min) (AroHops - 
1 Pkgs Belgian Ardennes (Wyeast Labs #3522) Yeast-Wheat


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## Stuster (24/3/09)

I've never used the 3942 yeast so I'm not much use to you, although I have read some positive results from others who've used it. I think the 3787 at cooler temps should work well though. I'd start it cool and then let it warm up so that you get it to finish in a reasonable time.

The recipe looks good to me. Tasty without going overboard. :icon_cheers:


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## braufrau (24/3/09)

3787 at 19C .. lubbely jubbely in my experience.


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## warrenlw63 (24/3/09)

A3k said:


> Wyeast suggest 3942 Belgian Wheat as a replacement. The write up doesnt seem as appealing to me. But if I did use this I could do a Wit Beer after. Any good in a Wit?



3942 Will be nice in either beer. Has some nice delicate plummy/fruit esters and leaves a lot of malt character. From memory it's the De Dolle strain ??

Warren -


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## A3k (24/3/09)

Cheers guys,

I'm thinking i'll go down the 3787 path. Sounds alright. Maybe i'll do a Dubbel next to make the most out of the yeast.

Time to place the order.

Thanks heaps guys.


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## jonocarroll (24/3/09)

I've just bottled my BPA in which I used 1762 Belgian Abby Ale II, fermented at the low end of the temp range, just to be different (actually, I got it from a recipe book). Saved the yeast cake for a Belgian Golden Strong, methinks. Should be interesting. Anyone else tried 1762 in a BPA?

Edit: Speelung.


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## A3k (25/3/09)

Sorry QB, can't help you with that one.

Beerbelly was out of 3787 as well, so i ended up calling jovial monk, and got some 3522 from him which is what i was originally intending to use anyway, so all is okay.

This Wyeast is an Activator pack, and says to use just the one pack. But Brewing Classic Styles suggest a 2Lt starter. Is it actually worth the effort of the 2Lt starter for this yeast?
The yeast is freash, made January 12.

Also, whilst i've got your attention. What other styles have people used 3522 in with good results?
Wyeast says it can be used in:
Belgian Blond Ale
Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Belgian Dubbel
Belgian Golden Strong Ale
Belgian Pale Ale
Belgian Specialty Ale
Belgian Tripel
Flanders Brown Ale/Oud Bruin
so looks like i've got a lot of beers i can make.

Cheers,
Al


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## therook (25/3/09)

A3k said:


> Sorry QB, can't help you with that one.
> 
> Beerbelly was out of 3787 as well, so i ended up calling jovial monk, and got some 3522 from him which is what i was originally intending to use anyway, so all is okay.
> 
> ...



Al,

If yo go back a page you will see my recipe for a BPA and i used 3522 and didn't make a starter. Pitched the fresh packet straight in. I then dumped a Dubbel onto a cup full of the yeast cake.

Others more experienced may advise differently

Good Luck

Rook


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## warrenlw63 (25/3/09)

therook said:


> If yo go back a page you will see my recipe for a BPA and i used 3522



+1 Rook's BPA was looverly. :icon_drunk: 

Warren -


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## SJW (25/3/09)

I am drinking this at the moment and I would have to say its the best beer I have made in a very very long time.

#86 Belgian Pale Ale 
Belgian Pale Ale 


Type: All Grain
Date: 24/02/2009 
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 31.86 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Gear 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 

5000.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) 
500.00 gm Caramunich II (Weyermann) 
100.00 gm Amber Malt 
35.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 16.1 IBU 
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (40 min) Hops 6.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU 
0.60 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Belgian Ardennes (Wyeast Labs #3522) Yeast-Wheat 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.009 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.90 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.34 % 
Bitterness: 25.6 IBU Calories: 464 cal/l 
Est Color: 17.9 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 5600.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 12.47 L Grain Temperature: 15.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 15.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 73.2 C 66.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 93.1 C 76.0 C


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## jonocarroll (26/3/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> I've just bottled my BPA in which I used 1762 Belgian Abby Ale II, fermented at the low end of the temp range, just to be different (actually, I got it from a recipe book). Saved the yeast cake for a Belgian Golden Strong, methinks. Should be interesting. Anyone else tried 1762 in a BPA?


Just opened one to celebrate my 500th post... this one... I know, self-fulfilling celebration. Stuff it. :beerbang: 

My beers carbed up so much faster during the heat-wave. Not quite ready. Taste is probably a little too 'belgian' for the style, which I can likely attribute to the yeast. Otherwise I'm happy. This will certainly be a nice quaffer.


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## A3k (27/3/09)

Hey QB, just curious what temperature did you fermented at?

I'm thinking about heading home and having a brew day to make my belgian pale ale. I've worked too hard this week, so need some brew time.

I'm using 3522 if you want me to save a little of the 1st gen. Might make some slants.


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## jonocarroll (27/3/09)

A3k said:


> Hey QB, just curious what temperature did you fermented at?


Brew log says 12 hours at each of 18*C, 19*C, 20*C, then the rest at 21*C. It could just be that it's still _very_ young, and not fully carbonated. Time will tell. It would be interesting to see what this yeast does at the top of the temp range (up to 24*C IIRC). If I find a beer that particularly needs 3522 I'll get in touch, otherwise I'll be seeing what else I can make with this 1762. Cheers.


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## drsmurto (22/5/09)

therook said:


> Having a go at my first Belgian on the weekend
> 
> Your thoughts and what is the best way to use this yeast
> 
> ...



Making this on Sunday with a few mods due to what i have in stock. Munich I in place of the Munich II/Vienna. Bittering with styrians. Have 3522 on a stirplate now. 8 month old smackpack damn near exploded on me in 12 hours...... 

Playing around with salt additions and will likely adjust the water (rainwater) to have a profile similar to Antwerp.

Will be my first ever Belgian beer.......  

Any Adelaide brewers have a BPA i could sample or know of a commercial version i can buy here?

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## Stuster (22/5/09)

Looks really good recipe, DrS. :icon_drool2: 



DrSmurto said:


> Playing around with salt additions and will likely adjust the water (rainwater) to have a profile similar to Antwerp.



But why do this! :huh:


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## eamonnfoley (22/5/09)

If you can get a hold of dekoninck I would try it before brewing this style. The beer is more malt focussed, quite biscuity, very well balanced, and there are minimal esters. Avoid those funky belgian yeast flavours!

I couldn't get enough of the stuff in Antwerp.


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## drsmurto (22/5/09)

Not sure i understand Stuster.

I am using rainwater to brew with and it contains <0.1 ppm of any of the brewing ions. 

Your thoughts?


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## Stuster (22/5/09)

Sorry if I wasn't clear (actually trying to work today which gets in the way of brewing discussions :angry: :lol: ).

I agree you need to add something to your water if you're using rainwater, just not sure you need to try to match the water from a particular region. I try to add ions to do something in particular, other than just getting enough calcium in there for the mash. So getting the sulphate:chloride balance to emphasise malt or hops. What is Antwerp like and does it help you get what you want out of the beer?


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## drsmurto (22/5/09)

Fair call

Antwerp
Ca 90
CO3 76
Cl 57
Mg 11
Na 37
SO4 84

Cant recall exactly what i planned to add as beersmith is at home. 

Only started down the road of water additions so the few beers i have made so far have been APAs and a big IPA - added CaSO4 plus a bit of MgSO4. Then a stout which i added CaCO3, NaCl and a small amount of MgSO4. 

I add the Mg for yeast health more than anything. The CaSO4 in the hoppy beers was to enhance the bitterness, the CaCO3 in the stout to balance the dark malts and reduce the pH in the mash tun. The NaCl was to round out the flavours.

This is the first pale beer i have brewed with rainwater which is balanced towards the malt.


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## Stuster (22/5/09)

Good call to round out the malts for a BPA. I'd aim to add a bit more calcium chloride rather than gypsum. The ratio is supposed to be balanced to chloride for a malt-driven beer, something like a 2:1 ratio of chloride to sulphate might be a good idea. But Antwerp water certainly seems fine to brew this kind of with as well.


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## drsmurto (22/5/09)

Cheers Stuster!


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## Swinging Beef (22/5/09)

DrSmurto said:


> This is the first pale beer i have brewed with rainwater which is balanced towards the malt.


Well if you are using the Ardennes yeast, I dont know how much malt is gonna shine thru.
It has a distninctive and amazingly good aroma.
Check your headspace. Last two ferments I did with this yeast had krausen 150% the size of the beer within 24 hours!


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## Stuster (22/5/09)

There's certainly some malt in the McChouffe beer they make with (supposedly) this yeast though, SB. Good info on the krausen with that yeast. Hmm, I think I might have to re-visit this yeast when the weather gets warmer. :icon_cheers:


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## Katherine (22/9/09)

therook said:


> Having a go at my first Belgian on the weekend
> 
> Your thoughts and what is the best way to use this yeast
> 
> ...




Ive got to do it. My first Belgium! And I think the Pale Ale will be the closet my palate will handle! So this one is booked in on our brewing calender, Lloyd is brewing a Best Bitter today, Im brewing a Hopburst tonight. Saturday another Bitter... So this has to wait until next week!


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## therook (22/9/09)

Katie said:


> Ive got to do it. My first Belgium! And I think the Pale Ale will be the closet my palate will handle! So this one is booked in on our brewing calender, Lloyd is brewing a Best Bitter today, Im brewing a Hopburst tonight. Saturday another Bitter... So this has to wait until next week!




You will love it Katie.......

Rook


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## jayse (22/9/09)

That recipe looks like it would be a great beer, i'd use the barrett burstons pale ale malt rather than the pale malt and you can easily use 30% munich II in a belgian pale ale, even more. 500g of vienna malt won't make any difference, you could use vienna for the base malt though.

I judged a heap of Bpas' on sunday and they were mostly all very excellent beers much in the sassy blonde style but most lacked a little in malty ,toasty and bscuity aroma and were overly driven in aroma by fruity orange and pear with sweetish malt. That sometimes translated in a somewhat candy like flavour.
They were all well rounded and soft malty mostly and looking back after I thought I may have been scoring low through out based simply on them being overly fruity and sweet soft malt balanced and not quite there malt wise. The malt shouldn't be too disimiliar to that of some english bitters with lovely floor malted ale malt character I think.
In fact in the same flight there were also 3 english pale ales which were very similar to the BPAs'.


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## Katherine (22/9/09)

jayse said:


> That recipe looks like it would be a great beer, i'd use the barrett burstons pale ale malt rather than the pale malt and you can easily use 30% munich II in a belgian pale ale, even more. 500g of vienna malt won't make any difference, you could use vienna for the base malt though.
> 
> I judged a heap of Bpas' on sunday and they were mostly all very excellent beers much in the sassy blonde style but most lacked a little in malty ,toasty and bscuity aroma and were overly driven in aroma by fruity orange and pear with sweetish malt. That sometimes translated in a somewhat candy like flavour.
> They were all well rounded and soft malty mostly and looking back after I thought I may have been scoring low through out based simply on them being overly fruity and sweet soft malt balanced and not quite there malt wise. The malt shouldn't be too disimiliar to that of some english bitters with lovely floor malted ale malt character I think.
> In fact in the same flight there were also 3 english pale ales which were very similar to the BPAs'.



I dont want the candy like flavour at all! I want a summer thirst quencher!

If I use the Vienna as a base malt what will that actually do! Im still learning about my grains. I dont mind malty beers but dont want to much residue sweetness.


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## mikem108 (22/9/09)

```
I judged a heap of Bpas' on sunday and they were mostly all very excellent beers much in the sassy blonde style but most lacked a little in malty ,toasty and bscuity aroma and were overly driven in aroma by fruity orange and pear with sweetish malt. That sometimes translated in a somewhat candy like flavour.

They were all well rounded and soft malty mostly and looking back after I thought I may have been scoring low through out based simply on them being overly fruity and sweet soft malt balanced and not quite there malt wise. The malt shouldn't be too disimiliar to that of some english bitters with lovely floor malted ale malt character I think.
```



any early results yet Jayse?


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## jayse (22/9/09)

Katie said:


> I dont want the candy like flavour at all! I want a summer thirst quencher!
> 
> If I use the Vienna as a base malt what will that actually do! Im still learning about my grains. I dont mind malty beers but dont want to much residue sweetness.



Vienna is a base malt, its not really all the malty no more then some pale ale malts in some ways, if you mash lower you'll get great malt without being too full.




mikem108 said:


> any early results yet Jayse?



That was just the state comp ones the mash paddle judging is this weekend coming up and I am betting there will be some wonderfull beers.


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## Katherine (22/9/09)

Thanks Jayse.


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## raven19 (12/10/09)

bindi said:


> From the Wyeast Site.
> 
> One of many great beer yeast to produce classic Belgian ales. Phenolics develop with increased fermentation temperatures, mild fruitiness and complex spicy character.
> 
> ...



So can I ask for thoughts on fermentation temperatures for the WY 3522 for The Rook's / Dr Smurto's Belgian?

That range is quite achievable for me here in Adelaide (with no fermentation fridge) as its a nice cool week in the high teens... starter is ready to pitch tonight.

I presume it will not be as 'touchy' as a wheat beer yeast in regards to banana/clove etc...

Keen to hear your thoughts belgian brewers.


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## drsmurto (12/10/09)

Push it hard, i fermented at ~24C and the spice definitely came through.


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## raven19 (12/10/09)

Warren reckons 20-22 pitch then raise to 25 after a while.
I shall try to emulate low to mid twenties for sure.
Thanks for the yeasties again mate, starter is bubbling away already!


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## brettprevans (12/10/09)

raven19 said:


> 20-22 pitch then raise to 25 after a while.
> emulate low to mid twenties for sure.


+1
the belgian brew books (eg Brew like a Monk) also reccomend this as they expect the beer to naturally climb to mid 20's with the heat generated from fermentation. of course they help it along if they need to.


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## drsmurto (12/10/09)

I will happily defer to Warrens comments as i have brewed exactly 1 belgian beer. Ever. :lol:


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## raven19 (14/10/09)

Looking to source a decent heat source prior to pitching.

At home its around 18...

Thanks for the comments on ferment temps! :icon_cheers:


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## warrenlw63 (14/10/09)

Thanks for the mention Raven. Looks like I'm in strife if it goes pear-shaped.  
Enjoy the beer!

Warren -


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## mika (14/10/09)

If you're going for style I'd personally ferment a bit cooler. As per the description on page 1, it's not meant to be as fruity or as spicy as your regular belgians. Some is OK, but I wouldn't go mad with it.
If you're not brewing to style, then go for it.


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## Effect (14/10/09)

mika said:


> If you're going for style I'd personally ferment a bit cooler. As per the description on page 1, it's not meant to be as fruity or as spicy as your regular belgians. Some is OK, but I wouldn't go mad with it.
> If you're not brewing to style, then go for it.



yeah, would have to agree with that...don't push the 1388 too much, but I think the other yeast you are using won't through out strong 'belgian' flavours.

Cheers
Phil


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## Steve (2/4/10)

How does this sound:

8kg Joe White Ale
500gms Vienna
500gms Caramunich II

Styrian Goldings to 27 IBUs at 60 and 15 (+Whirlfloc)

WLP550

Mash @ 67 and ferment at mid to low 20's

Cheers
Steve


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## Hadrian (12/8/12)

Does this mash schedule look okay?

50 - 5 minutes
62 - 20
65 - 10
69 - 40
Mashout


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## manticle (12/8/12)

I'm a big fan of targeting both sets of amylase enzymes when brewing belgian and German styles but I don't think you need the 65 rest. I'd also drop 62 back to around 15 minutes.


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## Hadrian (12/8/12)

Thanks manticle.
For a 1.050 belgian beer would you aim for Fg of 1.010?


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## manticle (12/8/12)

1010 would be fine.

1012 would be the maximum FG I would aim for. 1008-1012 would be an acceptable range for my palate. A 15 min rest at 62, provided your thermometers are in good shape, should see you attenuate to that pretty easily.


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## Hadrian (12/8/12)

Thanks


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