# Pale Ale-wheat Or No Wheat



## crd0902 (12/10/12)

Found a pale ale recipe on here and I'm just wondering whether I should put the wheat malt in it as well or leave it out. The recipe is3kg of ldme200g of crystal malt-----I have 250g10L boil20g of chinook @ 60 min----I have northern brewer I think it was called as substitute30g cascade @ 15 min30g cascade dry hopped before pitching yeastUs-05If that sounds ok. I have done a pale ale with dry wheat extract and liked it so the brew shop gave me a bag of wheat malt grain and said to steep that with the crystal malt. Maybe 250g with it. So I would like too now if this will work ok are the amounts right and do I up the the boil volume or is 10 still fine. Cheers for your help
Chris


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## Mike L'Itorus (12/10/12)

Malted wheat (ie grain) needs to be mashed to convert the starches to sugar. It can't just be steeped, like crystal. In crystal malt, the starches have already been converted to sugar as part of the manufacturing process, so steeping essentially just dissolves these sugars. 

Using malted wheat without mashing it will result in unconverted starches in your brew, which will do nothing to enhance it at all; it will just make it hazy. Either your LHBS is full of it, or misunderstood what you wanted to achieve.

edit: Unless it's choc wheat (aka roasted wheat) or carawheat (which is a crystal, just using wheat instead of barley), in which case it can be steeped, just like choc or cara/crystal barley.


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## crd0902 (12/10/12)

Thanks. I went looking for wheat extract, they had none so gave me grain and I had a bag of crystal malt and I specifically asked if I just throw couple hundred grams into the same pot and they said yes without thinking. Is there anyway I'm calling it wrong. Is there a wheat specialty grain that is just steeped.


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## Mike L'Itorus (12/10/12)

crd0902 said:


> Is there a wheat specialty grain that is just steeped.



in my edit...I was typing that whilst you posted.


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## crd0902 (12/10/12)

Thanks mike I'll check when I get home tomorrow to see what the label says. I do remember her grabbing it from the same shelf as the crystal malt and a choc malt and I know they have other bags of normal grain down the back of the shop. So if it is able to steep, 250g and go for it hey. Thanks again


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## crd0902 (12/10/12)

Slowly heading to all grain. Some good YouTube how to clips


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## Mike L'Itorus (12/10/12)

crd0902 said:


> Slowly heading to all grain. Some good YouTube how to clips



some really shitty ones, too, with loads of bad info.  

It's not that different to steeping, really...if you think about it. Find a AG brewer close to you, and go to a brew day. Best thing you'll ever do, when you realise how easy it actually is.


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## crd0902 (13/10/12)

Ok I went back to the shop to question them about the wheat malt, she assured me that it is the same as the crystal malt, I can steep it in a pot of water together. They said normal grain has to be mashed but the ones that are malt just steeped. I'm more lost than usual now.


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## JDW81 (13/10/12)

crd0902 said:


> Ok I went back to the shop to question them about the wheat malt, she assured me that it is the same as the crystal malt, I can steep it in a pot of water together. They said normal grain has to be mashed but the ones that are malt just steeped. I'm more lost than usual now.



Wheat malt is not like crystal and it does need to be mashed. If you're not sure about mashing stick to crystal and steep then boil it. 

Good advice from Mike on finding an AG brewer near you and swinging by for a brew day, best thing you'll ever do. I wish I'd had that opportunity when I started, instead of blindly trying to work it out myself.


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## warra48 (13/10/12)

Grains used for brewing are generally malted, so, although they are grains, they are also referred to as malt. They need to be mashed to convert the starches to sugars.
Crystal grain is made by a different process, and the starches are already converted to sugars within the grains, so they just need steeping to extract the sugars.

Your HBS comment that normal grain has to be mashed is correct. 
Their comment that the ones that are malt can just be steeped does not make sense on it's own. It's inherently contradictory. Do they really know what they sold you?

Thus:
1. If you have plain malted wheat, it will need mashing.
2. If you have carawheat, or crystal wheat it can be steeped.


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## crd0902 (13/10/12)

Reading from John palmers there is a few types of malt and next to some of them it says can be steeped or mashed. Wheat malt is not one of them. Can someone point me in the right direction as to how I may be able to use the wheat malt in my beer. Should I be researching mini mash. Thanks


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## crd0902 (13/10/12)

Haha thanks lads I clarified myself as you were typing. I don't take the shops word as gospel that's for sure. So if I don't have the equipment to mash I should forget it and just get some wheat extract instead for now seems to be the consensus. Cheers


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## crd0902 (13/10/12)

Just another quick thought is there a visible difference between normal grain and carawheat and or crystal malt. I have crystal and wheat malt and they look identical to me excePt the wheat is a little lighter in colour


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## JDW81 (13/10/12)

crd0902 said:


> Just another quick thought is there a visible difference between normal grain and carawheat and or crystal malt. I have crystal and wheat malt and they look identical to me excePt the wheat is a little lighter in colour



The crystal should smell sweeter as the conversion has already occurred and the starches in the grains are now simple sugars.


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## DU99 (13/10/12)

according to craftbrewer web site Wheat Caramel Malt you can steep..you can do a mini mash if your unsure


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## crd0902 (13/10/12)

Thanks guys. Three of us can't smell a difference so I'm not taking the risk. The packs are repacked in the shop in containers and sealed bags and relabelled so could be carawheat and they just called it wheat malt. I think I'll look into mini mash as I'm heading that direction anyway. Cheers


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## crd0902 (13/10/12)

Well all my worries are gone as the link above was for mini mash and that's what I was doing anyway. I thought that was steeping. Thanks heaps Chris


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