# Keggle Heating Element



## Lakey (3/5/11)

:icon_chickcheers: Hello fellow brewers. I am trying to get AG gear up and running for cheap an was thinking of putting a 2200W heating element from the craftbrewer on my 50L keggle as it is cheaper than buying a burner. Just wondering if any one else uses the same system and has any feedback they could give me on how it performs. Also if anyone uses the bucket in a bucket system for a mash tun could they tell me how that goes. Cheers Lakey. :beerbang: 

This post has been edited by *Lakey*: Today, 06:25 PM


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## real_beer (3/5/11)

Lakey said:


> :icon_chickcheers: Hello fellow brewers. I am trying to get AG gear up and running for cheap an was thinking of putting a 2200W heating element from the craftbrewer on my 50L keggle as it is cheaper than buying a burner. Just wondering if any one else uses the same system and has any feedback they could give me on how it performs. Also if anyone uses the bucket in a bucket system for a mash tun could they tell me how that goes. Cheers Lakey. :beerbang:
> 
> This post has been edited by *Lakey*: Today, 06:25 PM


Hi Lakey,

I've been setting up my gear to try BIAB with a 50lt keg & one of these elements from CraftBrewer.
My keg is insulated with a camping mat. During a calibration test the other day it took 54 mins to bring 40 litres of 21 C water to 67 C & another 48 mins to bring it up to the boil with a lid on. I think the air temperature was about 22 to 25 C at the time.
After boiling for 1 hour with the lid off & allowing it to cool down, I had an evaporation rate of 4 litres an hour. This 10% is a very good evaporation rate for boil-off & if you are going to do single batches you will probable only need 31 to 33 litres of water if you use the BIAB method, so the heating times will be less.

Overall I think I'm going to be very pleased with this element for what I want, & would also like to point out that fitting them is as safe & easy as it can get.

This calculator seems to agree with my test: http://www.phpdoc.info/brew/boilcalc.html

Cheers


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## Lakey (3/5/11)

Cheers real beer that has really helped me make my mind up about getting one. just needed reassurance.


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## Pennywise (9/6/11)

If it's this one you're talking about, can you tell me if it's just a normal kettle plug or not?


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## QldKev (9/6/11)

Pennywise said:


> If it's this one you're talking about, can you tell me if it's just a normal kettle plug or not?



Would that be the same as a PC cable?

QldKev


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## Siborg (9/6/11)

Pennywise said:


> If it's this one you're talking about, can you tell me if it's just a normal kettle plug or not?


It's a normal kettle plug.

I have two of them I'm going to chuck in my 98L pot once I get around to drilling the holes.


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## Pennywise (9/6/11)

QldKev said:


> Would that be the same as a PC cable?
> 
> QldKev



Yep, pretty sure the power cable is same on a computer



Siborg said:


> It's a normal kettle plug.
> 
> I have two of them I'm going to chuck in my 98L pot once I get around to drilling the holes.



Awesome, I know they only charge 8 bucks for it but I have access to them for nothing so...
I plan to use this to heat my sparge water for now, but will hopefully become part of a HERMS, in the pretty distant future anyway.

Cheers


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## QldKev (9/6/11)

Pennywise said:


> Yep, pretty sure the power cable is same on a computer
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cool, been thinking about getting one for playing with, but I have access to the pc cables; saves $8


QldKev


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## lespaul (9/6/11)

Siborg said:


> It's a normal kettle plug.
> 
> I have two of them I'm going to chuck in my 98L pot once I get around to drilling the holes.



Hey Siborg, thinking about doing the same thing for my 50lt keggle (the gas price is killing me on the mongolian burner). Just wondering how you were going to set them (above or like 90 degrees from each other)?

Cheers


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## Acasta (9/6/11)

2 2200W elements can be arranged like so:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=777906


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## seemax (9/6/11)

I've got one in my 80L pot and it wont do a rolling boil of 28L.

Think I might just get a 2nd one like the above post and use one of those cheap simmerstats to control the output.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Cooktop-Element-Sim...29#ht_807wt_905


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## Thirsty Boy (9/6/11)

I seriously reccomend over the side immersion elements in preference to installed elements.

Yes, they are more expensive, but they are a bit gruntier and they give you a level of flexibility that fixed elements just cant. ANY vessel becomes a heating vessel, and when you take them out... Your heating vessel reverts back to any vessel.

No holes, no seals, no power cords to buy, nothing but commercially made convenience....

Naopy bucket, 20L bucket, keggle, mash heating, BIAB, normal boiing, assiting gas kettles..... All flexibility, no disadvantage other than initial cost.

And if you are using them to replace gas... The difference is maybe 10 brews worth of gas tops.... You still come out a winner at the end of the day.


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## Cannibal Smurf (9/6/11)

Acasta said:


> 2 2200W elements can be arranged like so:
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=777906


Got mine set up like that and works fine for 45L boil



seemax said:


> I've got one in my 80L pot and it wont do a rolling boil of 28L.
> 
> Think I might just get a 2nd one like the above post and use one of those cheap simmerstats to control the output.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Cooktop-Element-Sim...29#ht_807wt_905


Mine would barely do a rolling boil in a 50L keggle and took forever to get there, so I purchased and installed a second one and have no problems now.

And yes, a normal PC power lead works fine.


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## Wolfy (9/6/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I seriously reccomend over the side immersion elements in preference to installed elements.


Any particular brand/make/model/vendor you'd suggest?
I've heard that some (maybe cheap ones) can leave a nasty rubber-type taste since the cord and fittings are also immersed in the boiling water/wort.


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## Acasta (9/6/11)

This is something i've been considering, having the over-the-side + Immersion for bringing the wort to boil, then take out the immersion and let the 2200W keep it going (hopefully)
Does anyone have experience trying this sort of thing?


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## QldKev (9/6/11)

I think 3600w for a single and at least 4800w for a double are what I would look at for a decent boil

QldKev


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## keifer33 (9/6/11)

I use an ots 2400w element and boils 30lt no probs. Mine is a grimwood. PC08B000S. Beerbelly have something similar.

The cheapies have cords/plastic that is immersed but the quality ones have an adjustable hook and the parts immersed are all metal.


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## Acasta (9/6/11)

keifer33 said:


> I use an ots 2400w element and boils 30lt no probs. Mine is a grimwood. PC08B000S. Beerbelly have something similar.
> 
> The cheapies have cords/plastic that is immersed but the quality ones have an adjustable hook and the parts immersed are all metal.


So you just hang this in touching the side? How long does it take to get to boil how many L of water?


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## keifer33 (9/6/11)

Acasta said:


> So you just hang this in touching the side? How long does it take to get to boil how many L of water?



Yeah they just hang on the side. Here is a pic of it from the manufactures website





As far as the boil time I cant remember exactly how long it takes as I only got to use it for a few brews before my pot showed signs of cheap manufacturing and leaked like a sieve. I have ordered a new super dupper pot so will be able to test in a few weeks time once it arrives and report back.


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## lespaul (9/6/11)

Keen to hear your recommendation TB. Had any problems with singing the BIAB bag?


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## Thirsty Boy (10/6/11)

No problems with bag singeing... One of the nice things about the over the side elements is that yoou use the element itself to stir the mash with when you are adding heat... And as long as you keep it moving you know for sure nothing is caught on it or wrapped around it or sitting on it... So nothing can get burned.

I think mine are from Tobins (i inherited mine, so not 100% sure) Virtually the same as the picture posted. Nothing but metal in contact with the wort. I'm 100% electric now. 1 x 2400W for single batches... Can crank out a double batch with one element too, but it does take a bit of patience.

I have 2 elements, but my house doesn't have enough electricity to run both at once anyway, so i have learned to make do with one.


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## Acasta (10/6/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> No problems with bag singeing... One of the nice things about the over the side elements is that yoou use the element itself to stir the mash with when you are adding heat... And as long as you keep it moving you know for sure nothing is caught on it or wrapped around it or sitting on it... So nothing can get burned.
> 
> I'm 100% electric now. 1 x 2400W for single batches...


Wow, so you can step mash using one of these immersed in the mash? Thats a great idea.

How do you think it would go using a 2200W for the boil, but adding the over-the-side to get it to boil faster? about 30L


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## BeerSwiller (10/6/11)

Acasta said:


> Wow, so you can step mash using one of these immersed in the mash? Thats a great idea.
> 
> How do you think it would go using a 2200W for the boil, but adding the over-the-side to get it to boil faster? about 30L




Shouldnt have a problem, i have an insulated keg and use only 1 2200w element for the boil, takes a while, but gets to a good rolling boil (just).


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## Thirsty Boy (10/6/11)

Acasta said:


> Wow, so you can step mash using one of these immersed in the mash? Thats a great idea.
> 
> How do you think it would go using a 2200W for the boil, but adding the over-the-side to get it to boil faster? about 30L



Fine but kinda pointless - why not just use two of the same type

They apparently work "less well" as a tool to step mash normal brews where the mash is a bit thicker, but they are perfect for BIAB. I have used one to step a normal mash, but i mash pretty loose at about 3.5-4:1 anyway, so it was still OK. I dont know if it would cut the mustard if you mashed at 2.2:1 and i only had to do it once not all the time - its a doddle with BIAB though.


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## kieran (11/6/11)

I use two of these: https://grimwood.prontoavenue.biz/products/PC08B000S

4.8kw of elements gets things moving very quickly in my 50L keggle. The boil goes like mad.
I only do 20L (final) brews though, so I usually use two to get it to a vigorous boil, then take one out after 30 mins.. otherwise I end up losing too much volume.

I prefer the 'over the side' style because I can clean them easily, and when removed there is less impediment to recirculation whirlpooling at the end.


I've done a full measurement on their efficiency with beertools pro.

The Vessel Heat Capacity of my Keggle is 3960.9 J/K (joules per kelvin) -- i.e. 3960.9 joules of energy are required to raise the vessel temp by 1 degree kelvin. FWIW, the magnitude of the kelvin scale is the same as the celcius scale..  So you could write it J/degrees C

With that in mind, in a vessel with heat capacity as above:
One Grimwood PC08B000S raises 18L of water by 10C in 6.7 minutes, at 18C ambient temperature.
Two Grimwood PC08B000S elements raise 18L of water by 10C in 2.8 minutes, at 18C ambient temperature.



cheers


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## goomboogo (11/6/11)

Kieran, the element in your link is the one with matt black finish. Is this the type you use? The reason I ask is that I have the nickel plated copper sheath version but have always wondered whether anyone is using the black ones for boiling wort.


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## kieran (12/6/11)

Yep, mine are the black ones. They offer better corrosion resistance than the nickel plated ones, and I've found that they have been excellent so far. No such thing as a burn yet.. not marked, and i've had one for nearly 2 years - the second one was a fairly recent acquisition -- but it's performing equally as well.

I did a little homework and found the the incolloy 800 sheaths are rated better for sugary liquids, acidic and basic solutions.. so I went with that. It's performing well so far, so I'm happy.

cheers


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## lespaul (26/6/11)

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853

Anyone know why these aren't on sale until mid July? Ross?
Cheers

Also kieran, how much do one of those set you back? Im hoping the $500 down the bottom of the page is for the control unit?


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## Ross (26/6/11)

lespaul said:


> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853
> 
> Anyone know why these aren't on sale until mid July? Ross?
> Cheers




....because that is when the next container arrives. The elements have been more populkar than expected  

Cheers Ross


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## bill_gill85 (3/10/11)

Would it be possible to convert the craftbrewer element into a heatstick? In other words, does the element have a standard thread, preferably a pipe thread? I could get access to materials to make an extension to seal power connector. 

I like that the craftbrewer element is sheathed & doesnt have a coil shape. I can always have a part machined to make the heatstick handle, but off the shelf components are cheaper.

Cheers,

Ben


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## ledgenko (4/10/11)

Does anyone have experience with the 3600w hot water heating elms with a 40 - 100lt HLT or Keggle ??? I like the look of them .. and the power !!! although Solar panels would be a necessity not a luxury in this place... 

Thoughts?

I just saw 4800w heating elms for $36 on ebay ... it may just solve my problem... or will it ????


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## BeerSwiller (4/10/11)

I need to replace the old 2200w element in my keg as the wiring is all melted and fragile at the connection to the element.

I was thinking about using a 3600w element from beerbelly, just not too sure if they would be any good for wort boiling as it's not low density. Anyone used these for wort boiling??


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## kjparker (4/10/11)

ledgenko said:


> Does anyone have experience with the 3600w hot water heating elms with a 40 - 100lt HLT or Keggle ??? I like the look of them .. and the power !!! although Solar panels would be a necessity not a luxury in this place...
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> I just saw 4800w heating elms for $36 on ebay ... it may just solve my problem... or will it ????


Unles you have 15amp (3600w) or 20 amp(4800w) dont bother, you wont be able to run them!


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## Acasta (4/10/11)

billgill said:


> Would it be possible to convert the craftbrewer element into a heatstick? In other words, does the element have a standard thread, preferably a pipe thread? I could get access to materials to make an extension to seal power connector.
> 
> I like that the craftbrewer element is sheathed & doesnt have a coil shape. I can always have a part machined to make the heatstick handle, but off the shelf components are cheaper.
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to see it done. Give it a shot and post results


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## BeerSwiller (4/10/11)

Does anyone know where I can buy heating elements? 2400w, 3600w ..... Anything
My original 2200w element was an ebay special but no longer sold there


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (4/10/11)

Beerswiller said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy heating elements? 2400w, 3600w ..... Anything
> My original 2200w element was an ebay special but no longer sold there



Try the sponsers at the top of the page :icon_cheers:


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## ledgenko (4/10/11)

Ross ... are the 2200w in stock ?? or have you sold out ?


Matt


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## ledgenko (4/10/11)

Ok... I currently do not have a seperate fuse / circuit to run the brewery but have access to 2 circuits which both have other points on them .. am I better off using 2 x 2200w water heaters from Ross (or equivilant) to my 100l Keggle and 1 x 2200w to my 70l HLT or 1 x 3600w in the Keggle and 1 x 2200w in the HLT ? 



I use hot water straight from laundry to fill my HLT so to hit 73 - 75 C does not take too long with my current 20 lt crown... (about 10 mins on a cold day).. about 5 normally... 

The 40l stock pot has struggled to get a boil up with a 33 lt batch ... so have had to improvise and boil 2 batches in the urn ... no problems with it so far in as far as taste or infection but it takes way too long to do .. and I need to increase production as I am feeding 2 houses with beer (mine and my parents).... hence the upgrade ...


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## kjparker (4/10/11)

ledgenko said:


> Ok... I currently do not have a seperate fuse / circuit to run the brewery but have access to 2 circuits which both have other points on them .. am I better off using 2 x 2200w water heaters from Ross (or equivilant) to my 100l Keggle and 1 x 2200w to my 70l HLT or 1 x 3600w in the Keggle and 1 x 2200w in the HLT ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unless you have a 15amp outlet you wont be able to run the 3600w element. Your better off sticking with your plan of two 2200w elements, on two circuits.


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## bill_gill85 (12/10/11)

Acasta said:


> It would be interesting to see it done. Give it a shot and post results



I recieved my element in the mail today. I was surprised that it has a short flylead with a kettle cord (IEC) socket, not a socket moulded on the element. I am slightly disappointed with the finish of the stainless steel sheath. Instead of being capped with either a flat or convex end, the element has a concave end that could trap residue from the boil. As a heatstick, this shouldn't be a problem, but permanently installed, it might. My other concern is that the element is designed to be fully submerged, but for my application I'd like to keep the flange above the wort. 


My initial measurements show the thread to be M32 x 1.50. This size thread size appears to be common to electrical conduit, however stainless steel conduit can be hard to come by. I'll try contacting a few suppliers I know of to get an idea of price. If I succeed, I'm now expecting the conversion to cost as much as the element itself. My other option is to weld a pipe fitting to the locknut that comes with the element.


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## Parks (12/10/11)

billgill said:


> I was surprised that it has a short flylead with a kettle cord (IEC) socket, not a socket moulded on the element.



That annoyed me too. I have already had one of these elements replaced because the lead broke lose from the hardened seal *stuff* around where it joins to the element.


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## kjparker (12/10/11)

Parks said:


> That annoyed me too. I have already had one of these elements replaced because the lead broke lose from the hardened seal *stuff* around where it joins to the element.


I think this comes from their original designed purpose.

For feeding through the neck of a keg to make a boiler for "water Purification puropses". A regular power plug would probably be too big to fit through the hole.


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## Parks (12/10/11)

clueless said:


> I think this comes from their original designed purpose.
> 
> For feeding through the neck of a keg to make a boiler for "water Purification puropses". A regular power plug would probably be too big to fit through the hole.



Agreed, however if you have a 1 metre power cable you don't need it - simply feed the power chord through the hole first and plug the element in.

That's assuming you have one (I have a shedload of computer power cables so I did).


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## kjparker (12/10/11)

Parks said:


> Agreed, however if you have a 1 metre power cable you don't need it - simply feed the power chord through the hole first and plug the element in.
> 
> That's assuming you have one (I have a shedload of computer power cables so I did).



Cords aren't a problem for me, I have heaps... My point was though, a regular plug to go into a gpo would be too big to easily feed through the neck of the keg, and out the side of the hole drilled for the element in the boiler.


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## Parks (12/10/11)

clueless said:


> My point was though, a regular plug to go into a gpo would be too big to easily feed through the neck of the keg, and out the side of the hole drilled for the element in the boiler.



You didn't understand what I was saying. Feed the cord through the hole in the keg for the element then out the top of the keg - the wall plug never enters the keg.


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## kjparker (12/10/11)

Parks said:


> You didn't understand what I was saying. Feed the cord through the hole in the keg for the element then out the top of the keg - the wall plug never enters the keg.


LOL, Now I'm confused as to what your saying / unhappy about! 

I was saying the reason they use the plug type they do is because of the original intended purpose. There is no way you could thread it through from the top (if it had a regular plug) without it travelling through the inside of the keg, which given the size of the plug, and hole required would be difficult....


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## Parks (12/10/11)

Ahh!

You wanted it hard wired period? I wanted the same socket but directly attached to the element. If you see the picture on the craftbrewer website it looks like the power lead plugs directly into the element.

This is what I wanted 

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853


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