# Forbidden Fruit



## GMK (12/5/05)

Hi All..

need a recipe for this beer - prefer All Grain...

Thanks in Advance....


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## warrenlw63 (13/5/05)

How's this?

Warren -

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/BeerOTMont...gers_ffruit.htm

Hope it helps -
Warren -


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## tangent (29/7/06)

BUMP
as this seems to be the only AG FF recipe thread, I'm pleading for new members or brewers who missed this thread to contribute.
The only metric recipe I can find is the G&G version which only lists 47% pilsner malt and the rest crystal and sugars. For some reason 1.5kg of melanoidin seems a bit too much, but it's uncharted territory to me.

Did you brew it Ken or Warren?
TDA or Snow?


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## goatherder (29/7/06)

I found a reference which pointed to a Verboden Vrucht clone recipe in the book "Beer Captured". Has anyone got a copy of the book?


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## GMK (29/7/06)

I brewed the G&G recipee as my mate wanted to.
Never Again.
Here is mine based on the beer captured recipe.
For Beer Captured - omit teh Caramunich, wheat and oats.

Hope it helps.
PM me with your e-mail address and i can post you the .rec file.

BC Forbidden Fruit

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 20.00 Wort Size (L): 20.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.24
Anticipated OG: 1.092 Plato: 22.01
Anticipated SRM: 15.0
Anticipated IBU: 25.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
77.1 6.35 kg. Pilsener Great Britian 1.036 2
2.1 0.17 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 51
2.7 0.23 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 178
1.2 0.10 kg. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 35
1.8 0.15 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 2
2.4 0.20 kg. Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
1.7 0.14 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 1.037 36
4.9 0.40 kg. Candi Sugar (clear) Generic 1.046 1
6.1 0.50 kg. Golden Syrup Generic 1.036 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 5.6 62 min.
15.00 g. Wye Challenger Pellet 7.50 11.9 61 min.
25.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 6.9 15 min.
10.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 0.7 3 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.00 Unit(s)Oak Pieces - USA Toasted/Roast Other 90 Min.(boil) 
5.00 gm Corriander Seed Spice 15 Min.(boil) 
0.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil) 
10.00 gm Bitter Orange Peel Spice 15 Min.(boil) 
5.00 gm Bitter Orange Peel Spice 3 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit


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## Stuster (29/7/06)

GMK said:


> I brewed the G&G recipee as my mate wanted to.
> Never Again.



Not exactly a ringing endorsement, Kenny. Why never again? :unsure:


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## GMK (29/7/06)

OK - we did a double batch approx 40ltrs in a 10gallon Rubbermaid.
Started with a real thick mash and with all the steps run out of room for the bioling water.
Had to use the wand for the rest of the steps.
This made the brew day really really long.
Ie started at 10.30am finished in the dark around 7.30pm.

All the maleniodan made the forbidden fruit taste like it was on steriods.
So much so that i had to water it down and add sugar to keep the alcohol % right.
Therefore, the fermentation was really long.
I also put mine in the oak barrel - that helped it out too.

Happy to send you a bottle if u pay for freight.

Note; U need the right yeast ... we used taht.

It tastes liked a pumped up version of forbidden fruit.
I quite like it - but not enough to do taht recipee again.
Will make the one i posted above.


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## big d (29/7/06)

Maybe you should be altering a few of your ingredients ken to hit the right amount and then you will get the forbidden fruit you are after.Find a recipe then tweek it to suit yourself rather than making it forbidden to try again.  

Cheers
Big D

IF AT FIRST YOU DONT SUCCEED THEN TRY AGAIN.


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## GMK (29/7/06)

Thanks BigD

But will do the recipe i have posted above first and then work/tweak from there.


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## tangent (30/7/06)

thanks for the email Ken,
so you haven't brewed this one yet?


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## GMK (30/7/06)

Nope - happy to have you over at the BrewInn and do a double batch if u would like to.


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## tangent (30/7/06)

i want to try a small batch 1st to see how it comes up before I do a double batch, but as always, thanks for your kind offer Ken.


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## tangent (8/8/06)

OK thanks for all the PMs and help with this recipe.
The pack is smacked, I'll let you all know how it goes.
Cheers


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## markws (8/8/06)

Thanks GMk for the info - if Stuster had not requested the why - I would have...I have this clone on my list of things to do this year and was considering the G&G recipe.

Tangent - v keen to here your comments

Cheers

MWS


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## Mac (8/8/06)

HI guys,

I brewed the G&G AG version of this approx 12mths ago. After being aged for 9 mths it is drinking very well. Have dione a side by side with FF and is fairly close. Wpuld recommend anyone who likes FF to give it a try.

Cheers 
Mac


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## Kieren (8/8/06)

I believe Michael Jackson claims this is an all malt beer, ie no candi sugar. This would obviously mean a low very low conversion rest temp, maybe around 62?

Don't know if this is any help though.

KV


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## tangent (9/8/06)

I just got this e-mail from Steve, the bloke who made Beer Alchemy:

"No I haven't but I had a google on Verboden Vrucht (I don't know that much
Dutch BTW!) and found these

from http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/22.6-twelvebeers.html

'7. Dark White Beer. Gravity: 1070; color: medium brown.

Inspired by Pierre Celiss creation, Verboden Vrucht, this is part white
beer, part dubbel and part weizenbock. Use 60 percent barley malt, 40
percent wheat malt. Color comes from a mix of Munich malt (half the barley
malt) and a pound of dark crystal, plus an ounce or so of black malt.
Hopping can be light, as is traditional, or a little heavier, but keep the
aroma hops subdued. I like Northern Brewer hops for their chocolatey
bitterness. Add half an ounce of crushed coriander and the zest of an
orange at the end of the boil. For more spice zip, make an infusion in
vodka of the same spices, strain and add to the beer before carbonating.
Ferment with your favorite Belgian ale yeast.'


Recept voor 10 liter:

SG: 1077
Brouwzaalrendement: 78%

Mout
Pilsmout, 3 EBC 2,75 kg (86,6%)
Special B, 300 EBC, 0,100 kg (3,0%)
CaraMnich, 120 EBC, 0,07 kg (2,3%)
Biscuit mout, 50 EBC, 0,06 kg (1,9%)
Kristalsuiker, 0 EBC, 0,19 kg (6,1%)

Hop:
Challenger, 6,9%, 60 minuten koken, 10,7 gram
Styrian Goldings, 3,7%, 15 minuten koken, 10,7 gram
Styrian Goldings, 3,7%, 3 minuten koken, 2,9 gram

Gist: Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit

Maischschema:
90 minuten op 65 graden (tja, Amerikaans boek, dus eenstaps).

Kijk maar wat je ermee doet.'"


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## Asher (9/8/06)

If you were to enter a "Forbidden Fruit" clone into a comp. What Category & Style would you enter it under? Trapist ale?


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## tangent (9/8/06)

belgian strong dark i think


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## tangent (9/8/06)

here you go:

Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
Belgian Strong Ale-Belgian Strong Dark Ale

Min SG: 1.075 Max SG: 1.110 Gravity in SG
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 25	
Min Color: 14.0 Max Color:	 20.0 Color in SRM


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## Asher (9/8/06)

Thanks Tangent

But what about in the AABC Style Guide? ... thats when it a bit harder to figure out...

Asher for now


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## Kieren (9/8/06)

Don't forget the spicing of corriander!


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## Doogiechap (16/11/06)

The recipe looks inspiring to me GMK  
I was just wondering what 6 UNITS of oak equated to in grams ??
Cheers
Doug



GMK said:


> I brewed the G&G recipee as my mate wanted to.
> Never Again.
> Here is mine based on the beer captured recipe.
> For Beer Captured - omit teh Caramunich, wheat and oats.
> ...


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## GMK (20/11/06)

OK - i am brewing another 40ltr batch of this on saturday.
Doing the Beer Captured Recipe.

Can someone suggest a suitable water profile to use.
I am starting with Rain water.

Beer Captured recommends Soft - so what water profile should i use.

TIA - Thanks In Advance


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## Gulf Brewery (20/11/06)

GMK said:


> Beer Captured recommends Soft - so what water profile should i use.



GMK

If it says soft water and you are starting from rain water, then just add gypsum (food grade, naturally) to your water for the yeast to be happy. If you have some brewing software, just work out the water profile to be about 50 to 60 ppm of Ca and all will be happy. The software will give you the amounts to add to the mash and sparge waters.

Cheers
Pedro


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## sstacey (21/11/06)

Does anyone else find Forbidden Fruit to be an overly astringent beer?
For this reason it is one of my least favourite Belgiums. Though, by the time I get to the end of the glass the alcohol has kicked in and I find the astringency adds a nice complexity. Problem is that it takes to the end of the bottle to get there. I prefer other Belgiums like Westmalle and Achouffe's La Chouffe and Mc Chouffe.

I think that Hoegaarden must be doing something weird with the pH of their mash (possibly high), which might bring out the astringency from their hops. Just speculation. 

I have never heard anything about astringency in reviews, just wondering if I'm the only one to notice this or if other people have noticed it?


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## GMK (21/11/06)

SPS said:


> I prefer other Belgiums like Westmalle and Achouffe's La Chouffe and Mc Chouffe.



I also like Westmalle especially the Trappist Tripel..

Will need to find a recipe for this one day as well.


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## Oblomov (16/12/06)

One guy one a dutch/belgian brewing site claimed that he did a Hoegaarden brewery tour about 25 jears ago. He saw liquorice in their spice room, asked Pierre Celis ("Mr. Hoegaarden") about it and was told Hoegaarden used it in their _Verboden Vrucht_.

_The guy_ also claims to have used sweet liquorice in a batch with good results; it gave a "nice deep taste".


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## 3GumsBrewing (6/5/07)

So has anyone come up with a close enough recipes yet?
Drinking a couple as I type ($3.50 each at Dan Murphy's Eastwood)
It is sensational. Am getting right into Belgians after being on a APA kick for so long!

Cheers
DK


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## Doogiechap (6/5/07)

DK said:


> So has anyone come up with a close enough recipes yet?
> Drinking a couple as I type ($3.50 each at Dan Murphy's Eastwood)
> It is sensational. Am getting right into Belgians after being on a APA kick for so long!
> 
> ...


I was pretty impresed with GMK's recipe earlier in this thread. I did a direct comparison and color was spot on. I neglected to add the oak and think it would have helped nail the complexity. Perhaps mashing a bit lower would have given some more dryness that was missing. I will definately be doing this one again.
Cheers
Doug


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## 3GumsBrewing (6/5/07)

Doogiechap said:


> I was pretty impresed with GMK's recipe earlier in this thread.



Perfect, thanks Doug. I always like to get a few opinions before trying a new recipe.

Cheers
DK


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