# What I Am Brewing With My Chinese Hops



## Bribie G

Well there was a short lived thread on 'what am I planning to do', but now that the hops have arrived it's time for a new thread. 

First off, on Monday I'm doing a XXX tribute using Cluster. Then I'll follow it up with a Saaz equivalent. If a few of us Brisbane Hop buyers can produce some brews over the holidays it will a great kick off to 2010 to take some samples along to BABBs January meeting.

4000 BB Galaxy
500 Polenta
50g dark crystal in the XXX, none in the Saaz

66 degrees 90 mins

20g hop 90 mins
15g hop 20 mins
15g hop flameout

500 da sugazzzzz

S-189 

ten days fermenting
ten days lagering
ten days cold keg. :icon_drunk:


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

Who is going to take up the 500gram per batch challange? SMASH IIPA cascade hopbusrt green monster?


----------



## bradsbrew

I was thinking of going out there with the first one

Vienna 3kg
Aromatic 1kg
Wheat 500g

Cluster at 60min
cluster at 15min
Saaz at 0min

Mash at 64


----------



## bradsbrew

townsville said:


> THE GREAT CHINESE HOP BUY 2009
> 
> HOPS THAT ARE AVAILABLE
> 
> 
> 
> Typical anaylsis supplied by Elimnatral
> 
> 
> Technology Index
> 
> T-90 Hop pellet
> Incomplete pellets are less than 4%. Dissolved time is less than 10 seconds.
> Humidity content: 7.0%-9.0%
> 
> This compare very faviourable with other manufacturers arround the world. We can only order 10 kg bags, and will affect how you order (see Ordering).
> 
> 
> TYPES OF HOPS
> 
> Product
> SAAZ aroma hop pellets(SA-1) (T-90)
> 
> Specification
> a acids: 2.0%-4.0% -Acids: 2.0%-4.0%
> 
> 
> 
> Product
> CLUSTER bitter hop pellets(Qingdao Dahua) (T-90)
> 
> Specification
> a-Acids>6.5% -Acids>3.5%
> 
> 
> 
> Product
> MARCO POLO bitter hop pellets (T-90)
> 
> Specification
> a-Acids>12% -Acids>3.0%
> 
> 
> Product
> CASCADE aroma hop pellets (T-90)
> 
> Specification
> a-Acids <4.5% B-Acids 4.0-6.0 %
> 
> 
> 
> Product
> Nugget bittering hop pellet (T-90)
> 
> Specifications
> UNKNOWN



I know that we have been well informed that the AA may not be accurate but at least its a guide for Recipe Building.


----------



## daemon

Only bought a kg of the Cascade, so a basic APA will be on the cards.

Thinking BB Ale with a splash of carared and aromatic then Cascade @ 60 / 15 / 5 / dry hop. If the flavour turns out ok I think I'll go for a 60 min dogfishhead style brew


----------



## bradsbrew

Daemon said:


> Only bought a kg of the Cascade, so a basic APA will be on the cards.
> 
> Thinking BB Ale with a splash of carared and aromatic then Cascade @ 60 / 15 / 5 / dry hop. If the flavour turns out ok I think I'll go for a 60 min dogfishhead style brew


looks good Daemon, only just remembered that I ordered a Kilo of Cascade too. Woo Hoo 

Brad


----------



## arogers

I got a kilo of everything coming, someone help me use them lol


----------



## Muggus

regulator said:


> I got a kilo of everything coming, someone help me use them lol


If ever in doubt use em all! Chinese Hopburst IIPA! :icon_drool2:


----------



## clarkey7

Just about to sparge TOYBOX 60min IPA with the Chinese Cascade...betta go

PB


----------



## kram

Wow, didn't think you'd get to it today Dave.

I don't think we'll be seeing you post during the boil hey? haha


----------



## clarkey7

kram said:


> Wow, didn't think you'd get to it today Dave.
> 
> I don't think we'll be seeing you post during the boil hey? haha


Between kids bathtime, cooking the BBQ for dinner and cracking grain it was it a bit of a stretch but I'm on a mission tonight.  

I'll be sitting by the pot with my jug of chinese cascade and my timer - oh yeah and my beer.

Will update when in the cube I reckon...

PB


----------



## MarkBastard

I'm just gunna make some boring pale ales.

When my chinook is ready to be harvested I'll be using the chink cascade as a bittering and flavouring hop, with Chinook flavour and aroma and dry hop.

That's provided the straight cascade isn't feral.


----------



## winkle

Pocket Beers said:


> Between kids bathtime, cooking the BBQ for dinner and cracking grain it was it a bit of a stretch but I'm on a mission tonight.
> 
> I'll be sitting by the pot with my jug of chinese cascade and my timer - oh yeah and my beer.
> 
> Will update when in the cube I reckon...
> 
> PB



Geez your hard-core PB.
(I just got pissed and watched Dr Who)


----------



## Bribie G

I've just polished off the last of the keg of XXX that you guys didn't drink and I've forgotten where I've put my hops :huh:


----------



## NickB

I got pissed and cooked a pizza... Oh, right, didn't make to to chappo's in body, but in spirit... h34r:

I'm gonna brew a crap-load of beers, and not worry too much about using "too many" hops. At worst, I'll be good for bittering hops for at least the next 12 years 

Cheers


----------



## bum

I think I saw some hops in your car?


----------



## Bribie G

bum said:


> I think I saw some hops in your car?


Yes that's another problem, I've forgotten where I parked. :huh:


Edit: ah now I remember, I parked on the wharf where the Chinese bound ships come in. She'll be right - I'll check if it's still there in the morning.


----------



## b_thomas

I think for me it will come down to whatever quality the hops arrive as. If they're terrible they're going in to a brown paper bag and being turned in to aged hops for my lambics.


----------



## winkle

BribieG said:


> Yes that's another problem, I've forgotten where I parked. :huh:
> 
> 
> Edit: ah now I remember, I parked on the wharf where the Chinese bound ships come in. She'll be right - I'll check if it's still there in the morning.



Shouldn't be hard - there's only 1 "wharf" near Bribie manor. 
Gee I'm glad I didn't drive home - I'm surprised you weren't knocked out by hop fumes. B) 
On topic - The bloody Cascade was smelling great, maybe a IPA is due.


----------



## MarkBastard

winkle said:


> The bloody Cascade was smelling great



Awesome!


----------



## clarkey7

Italian spiral Burner wasn't working properly and acting wierd......A bit scary.

I lifted the pot off to begin pouring wort into urn to do the boil, when I noticed wasps or something have filled half the holes with mud...

Bastards.

Going again now, but It'll be a much later night than expected.

PB


----------



## Bribie G

Wasps do not fill my urn, little grashopper


----------



## Barley Belly

BribieG said:


> Wasps do not fill my urn, little grashopper



You'd be F#$%ed if they did


----------



## clarkey7

All done and cleaned up. Phew.

Sorry no photos of the beautiful hop cone in the kettle as someone flogged off with the camera.

Will be a 7% IPA hopped every minute with Chinese Cascade, No chill and pitch tomorrow, drinking by next week.

Nothing wrong with the Cascade hops - they smell awesome :icon_drool2: 

PB


----------



## gibbocore

Pocket Beers said:


> All done and cleaned up. Phew.
> someone flogged off with the camera.


----------



## MarkBastard

Can someone please post an all-cascade recipe or two? IPA would be good or just an APA.


----------



## winkle

Took a day off to do a test bed for Marco Polo.
Marco Polo #1 
American Pale Ale 

Type: All Grain
Boil Size: 21.67 L 
Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 
Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 90.00 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 10.00 % 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 34.9 IBU 
10.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (15 min) Hops 17.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (5 min) Hops 7.0 IBU 
0.24 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US-56 (DCL) Yeast-Ale 


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.83 % 
Bitterness: 59.2 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 5.3 SRM

If it's good, the next will be a hop monster.


----------



## daemon

Looks good winkle, I only ordered the Cascade but I'll be doing something very similar (maybe a splash of caraaroma because I can never resist). I'll probably knock over a basic batch at around 4% without too much bitterness for an easy drinking ale on xmas day (for the family) as well as a feral IPA that will see 1/4 of my hops go in one session (something I can enjoy on xmas day!).


----------



## KHB

Hey guys,

this is what im planning on putting down when my hops arrive, can anyone make any suggestions?? 

Cheers 

KHB





BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chinese Hop Burst
Brewer: 
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.11 L
Estimated OG: 1.082 SG
Estimated Color: 25.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 99.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 80.00 % 
1.00 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (29.6 EBC) Grain 13.33 % 
0.50 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 6.67 % 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (60 min) Hops 15.2 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (45 min) Hops 14.0 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (40 min) Hops 13.4 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (35 min) Hops 12.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (30 min) Hops 11.7 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (25 min) Hops 10.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 3.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 5.5 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 7.50 kg
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
30 min Protein Rest Add 22.50 L of water at 54.0 C 50.0 C 
60 min Saccharification Heat to 63.0 C over 15 min 63.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C


----------



## Steve

KHB said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> this is what im planning on putting down when my hops arrive, can anyone make any suggestions??
> 
> Cheers
> 
> KHB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
> Recipe: Chinese Hop Burst
> Brewer:
> Asst Brewer:
> Style: Imperial IPA
> TYPE: All Grain
> Taste: (35.0)
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Boil Size: 29.11 L
> Estimated OG: 1.082 SG
> Estimated Color: 25.5 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 99.0 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
> Boil Time: 60 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 6.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 80.00 %
> 1.00 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (29.6 EBC) Grain 13.33 %
> 0.50 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 6.67 %
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (60 min) Hops 15.2 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (45 min) Hops 14.0 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (40 min) Hops 13.4 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (35 min) Hops 12.6 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (30 min) Hops 11.7 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (25 min) Hops 10.6 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
> 15.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 5.5 IBU
> 30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
> 30.00 gm  Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale
> 
> 
> Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
> Total Grain Weight: 7.50 kg
> ----------------------------
> Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
> Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 30 min Protein Rest Add 22.50 L of water at 54.0 C 50.0 C
> 60 min Saccharification Heat to 63.0 C over 15 min 63.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C



you could've at least rounded it off to 100 IBU instead of 99!


----------



## WarmBeer

KHB said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> this is what im planning on putting down when my hops arrive, can anyone make any suggestions??
> 
> Cheers
> 
> KHB



Needs more hops 

Edit: Damn, beaten to the punch with the "Capt. Obvious" comment


----------



## daemon

Bugger it, can't restrain my hop use when I have this much! Decided to go for a middle of the road brew, only 30IBU's but it should be perfect for showing the true hop flavour.

Recipe: Chinese Cascade Pale Ale
Brewer: Tim
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 22.00 L 
Boil Size: 27.69 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 4.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.30 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM)Grain 89.58 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 10.42 % 
30.00 gm Cascade (Chinese) [5.80 %] (60 min) Hops 19.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade (Chinese) [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 7.1 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade (Chinese) [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 3.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade (Chinese) [5.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 dayHops - 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.80 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 14.00 L of water at 70.6 C 65.0 C


----------



## mossyrocks

This is what I hopefully will be brewing tonight with my Chinese Hops (and others):-

Hop Monster - Marco Polo and others - APA
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 07/12/2009 
Style: APA Brewer: mossyrocks 
Batch Size: 22.00 L Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 29.54 L Boil Time: 75 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 % Equipment: My Equipment 
Actual Efficiency: 
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Pilsner (Bohemian) (1.7 SRM) Grain 58.3 % 
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 16.7 % 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 16.7 % 
0.50 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 8.3 % 
20.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (60 min) Hops 27.1 IBU 
20.00 gm Centennial [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 22.6 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 19.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (10 min) Hops 7.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Centennial [10.00%] (10 min) Hops 6.1 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (10 min) Hops 5.2 IBU 
10.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Centennial [10.00%] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (0 min) Hops - 
40.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
40.00 gm Centennial [10.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
40.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56)) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.056 SG (1.045-1.060 SG) 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.016 SG (1.010-1.015 SG) 
Estimated Color: 9.7 SRM (5.0-14.0 SRM) Color [Color] 
Bitterness: 87.5 IBU (30.0-45.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 3.7 AAU 
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.2 % (4.5-6.2 %)
Actual Calories: 507 cal/l 


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Mash Tun Weight: 2.00 kg 
Mash Grain Weight: 6.00 kg Mash PH: 5.4 PH 
Grain Temperature: 20.0 C Sparge Temperature: 82.0 C 
Sparge Water: 0.00 L Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE 

Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 14.00 L of water at 73.5 C 65.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 11.00 L of water at 92.9 C 76.0 C 10 min 
Step 3 Add 14.00 L of water at 99.9 C 84.0 C 10 min 


Cheers,
mossy


----------



## winkle

Upped the hops a bit and made a couple of changes.
Marco Polo #1 
American Pale Ale 

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 18.93 L
Boil Size: 21.67 L
Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 % 
0.50 kg Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 10.00 % 
10.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 35.0 IBU 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (15 min) Hops 17.4 IBU 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (10 min) Hops 12.7 IBU 
25.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (5 min) Hops 7.0 IBU 
0.24 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US-56 (DCL) Yeast-Ale 


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.79 % 
Bitterness: 72.1 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 6.1 SRM 

Now sitting in its cube, how did I end up with some much hop dust?  
Yeast will be going on this as soon as my bitter comes out of the fermentation fridge.


----------



## Bribie G

Hop dust, but _cheap_ hop dust.  

Actually Winkle you are a credit to the fellowship - you were in the weighing section and could easily have selected for yourself the prime pickings out of your sack of MP you were working on. Although as you know we minimised dust allocation by pouring the dregs of one sack over the hops in the next opened sack to even out the dust problem, you chose to take what was issued when your own order came up.

Greater love hath no man than this, that he gives up his hops for some dust.


----------



## winkle

Next up will probably be this one.


Chu Dat Hopf Phat 
Specialty Beer 


Type: All Grain
Date: 6/10/09 
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L 
Boil Time: 75 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 86.67 % 
0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6.67 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 6.67 % 
15.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
65.00 gm Nugget C [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 70.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.6 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 4.8 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU 
0.25 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.087 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.52 %
Bitterness: 94.4 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 4.2 SRM 

Might have to think about the yeast :unsure:.


----------



## crozdog

KHB said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> this is what im planning on putting down when my hops arrive, can anyone make any suggestions??
> 
> Cheers
> 
> KHB
> 
> 
> 15.00 gm Chinese Cascade [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 3.8 IBU



khb, I think that the 15g @ 15 will unbalance the whole thing B) 

up it to 30g - go on I know you want to :lol:


----------



## benno1973

Waiting for the hops eagerly to brew this one...

Recipe: Hot Ham Chinese IPA
Style: American IPA

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 42.00 L 
Boil Size: 45.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 21.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 51.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
9.00 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)Grain 78.95 % 
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 8.77 % 
0.60 kg Caramunich II - 60L (Weyermann) (124.1 EBCGrain 5.26 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 4.39 % 
0.30 kg Brown Malt (128.1 EBC) Grain 2.63 % 
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (FWH)Hops 14.4 IBU 
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (60 min)Hops 13.1 IBU 
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (30 min)Hops 10.1 IBU 
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (15 min)Hops 6.5 IBU 
60.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (10 min)Hops 6.3 IBU 
60.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (2 min) Hops 1.5 IBU 
60.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (10 min steep)Hops - 
1.00 items Campden Tablets (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
2.00 tsp Citric Acid (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
2.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 60.0 min) Misc 
42.00 L Perth Water 
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale


----------



## bradsbrew

I know I have seen Bribies XXX Ale recipe ( The one he had at the packing on sunday) on here somewhere. And when I find it that is what I will be brewing with the cluster..........with a couple of little adjustments because I cant help myself.
Bribie that is one mighty fine beer, I was just dissappointed I had to drive home.

Cheers Brad


----------



## Bribie G

bradsbrew said:


> I know I have seen Bribies XXX Ale recipe ( The one he had at the packing on sunday) on here somewhere. And when I find it that is what I will be brewing with the cluster..........with a couple of little adjustments because I cant help myself.
> Bribie that is one mighty fine beer, I was just dissappointed I had to drive home.
> 
> Cheers Brad



Haven't put it up yet on the database but here goes: 

Warning: Sugaz B) Warning: ABV :mellow: 

23 L batch

4000 BB Galaxy
500 Polenta
80 Dark Crystal

64 degrees 90 mins

30 Cluster 90 mins
15 Cluster 20 mins

750 dex into fermenter (pitchforks, torches yeah)

S-189 dried Swiss Lager yeast 16 degrees

Lager for 10 days

I made it under time-pressure for a party and it's the best true lager I've made. Actually I was drinking it up to 20 minutes ago then the keg said no 

Edit: thanks for the kind words Brad, but I tell you what, on hop packing day I arrived at Chappo Manor with a hangover you could photograph - following the 21st the night before - and when he put my keg on I was hurting for a beer and the sucker hit the spot right on :icon_drool2:


----------



## Bribie G

Just doughed in my Chinese Pale Pilsener International Style.


So far the Saaz seems to be possibly the weakest link in the chain, so I'm diving right in and see how it shapes up.

4000 BB Galaxy
250 Carapils

66 degrees 90 mins

Chinese Saaz:

50 - 90 min
30 - 20 min
20 - 10 min

bugger it hang the expense  

750 dex into fermenter (yup)

S-189 dried Swiss Lager Yeast.

Ferment 10 days 16 degrees
Lager 10 days. Gelatine, Polyclar.


I'll post later re aroma in kettle. :icon_cheers:


----------



## MitchDudarko

Is the Marco Polo similar to any other hop? Or is it primarily just for bittering?


----------



## Bribie G

It's apparently a Chinese version of Columbus and has a very Yank aroma if you like that sort of thing so would be a good dual purpose hop for APAs etc.

I've just done my second Chinese Saaz addition. Clean and spicy aroma, quite subtle. I've had a taste of how the bittering is going and that's just fine. Although it's a low AA hop the bittering level after 40 minutes is coming on fine. Not looking like an award winning Bohemian by any means but nothing to complain about so far.  For the Tsingtao / St Miguel style I'm looking at, it seems to be fitting the bill so far.


----------



## clarkey7

Just tasted a sample of the wort (just pitched) I made with the Cascade hops last night.

The hops definately generated the anticipated IBU's (shedloads) so the AA's must be good.

Can't wait for it to ferment out to get a clearer picture of how these hops taste.  

I'm very happy with the hops so far (from smelling aroma from packing them through to using them), but I guess the final results will be in once a few hundred beers are made with all these hops and we've tasted them.

PB


----------



## benno1973

Just brewed a RyePA with the cascade. Smelled great during the boil - 400g of hops across a double batch...

Recipe: Hot Ham Chinese IPA
Style: American IPA

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 42.00 L
Boil Size: 45.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 21.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 51.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston)
1.00 kg Flaked Rye
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann)
0.60 kg Caramunich II - 60L (Weyermann)
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston)
0.30 kg Brown Malt
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (FWH)Hops 14.4 IBU
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (60 min)Hops 13.1 IBU
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (30 min)Hops 10.1 IBU
45.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (15 min)Hops 6.5 IBU
60.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (10 min)Hops 6.3 IBU
60.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (2 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
100.00 gm Cascade (Chinese), 2009 [5.80 %] (10 min steep)Hops -
1.00 items Campden Tablets (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2.00 tsp Citric Acid (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 60.0 min) Misc
42.00 L Perth Water
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale


----------



## MarkBastard

:icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:


----------



## benno1973

Piccies from the RyePA yesterday...

400g of hops bagged and ready to go...




First runnings with the FWH...



After draining the kettle this is what was left. Notice that you can't see the pickup tube? It's buried somewhere in that hop sludge. The last runnings were just green sludge after the whirlpooled hop cone fell apart, so I shut the tap off early. There must be a good couple of inches of hop sludge there that went onto the compost...


----------



## MarkBastard

Those hops look pretty brown to me. Is it just the camera? Now green at all.


----------



## staggalee

they do look a bit aneamic don`t they.

stagga.


----------



## arogers

Mine were all green? Is it coz they were frozen? :huh:


----------



## benno1973

That first picture (of the hops in the bag) has a frosty sheen, as they were taken straight out of the freezer. The hops were green, not bright green, more like army camouflage green. I'm also not the greatest photographer in the world, so I probably didn't do them justice. But they weren't brown...


----------



## benno1973

Oh, and aroma going into the fermenter was a combination of orange marmalade, mandarin peel, and some grassy/straw/hay smells. Hopefully these will disappear during the ferment - possibly a byproduct of using so much hops?


----------



## Fourstar

Kaiser Soze said:


> Oh, and aroma going into the fermenter was a combination of orange marmalade, mandarin peel, and some grassy/straw/hay smells. Hopefully these will disappear during the ferment - *possibly a byproduct of using so much hops?*



I would say so. Most of my APAs use around 3.5g/L of hops and IPAs around 5g/l. You are averaging 7g/L :icon_drool2: .

The last beer i did with 7g/l was my Xmas in July case swap AIPA... All i can say is, DELICIOUS! :super:


----------



## winkle

Finally got my test batch of Marco Polo APA into the fermenting fridge. Efficiency was buggered up somehow (probably hangover related) but the hops were shining thru. Wacked it on a Nottingham slurry so it'll probably be crawling out the airlock tonight  . Just 7 days (or so) to go to find out what they're like.


----------



## NickB

Pfft, you should give up drinking. Clearly you can't get your efficiencies or volumes correct without being sober.....




h34r:







Back OT, I'll be aiming for a triple or quad brew-weekend. Thinking 2x APA's, both 95% BB Ale malt, 5% Wheat, one with ChinaCascade, one with Marco Polo, maybe both hopburst style, still deciding.

Then I may brew either the CAP I've been planning for months, or go a NZPA and use up some Galaxy........ Or both. Shall see.

Cheers


----------



## Bribie G

Got a shrink of Marco Polo coming in from Ross tomorrow, I generally dislike APAs but I'll try anything once, as I said to my Scoutmaster when I was 13 .. B) . thinking of a SMASH with just BB Galaxy, Carapils, da sugaz, 30 marco 90 mins and 15 at 10 mins. US-05 at 17 degrees.

It's basically my testbed for Aussie style lagers so lets see how it turns out.


----------



## winkle

> Pfft, you should give up drinking. Clearly you can't get your efficiencies or volumes correct without being sober.....



Butthead  

Think it was a glitch with the scales, didn't really look like a kg of wheat went in there :unsure: . I'll feed it some new batteries and run some checks, and go back to the old mash tun for a Xmas batch of UXB to check everything before hitting out with an ~100 IBU Nugget-C and Cascade-C IIPA. Just about finished playing with the recipe now.

*Chu Dat Hopf Phat* 
IIPA

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L

Ingredients

6.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 83.33 % 
0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6.41 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 6.41 % 
0.30 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 % 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
66.00 gm Nugget C [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 70.2 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.4 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 4.7 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU 
0.25 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 

US-05 double pack (rehydrated) 

It should wake up a jaded palate  

Looks like we'll have a few bottles to swap Bribie!


----------



## NickB

Putting these down this afternoon after work:

*Recipe: Great Wall of Hops (MK I)*
Style: 10A-American Ale-American Pale Ale

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 30.00 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 21.00 l
Final Batch Volume: 20.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.036 SG
Expected OG: 1.050 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG
Expected ABV: 5.0 %
Expected ABW: 3.9 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 35.2
Expected Color: 5.3 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 74.9 %
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC

Fermentables
Australian BB Traditional Ale Malt 4.500 kg (94.7 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Dark Wheat Malt 0.250 kg (5.3 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
Chinese Cascade (5.8 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used 25 Min From End
Chinese Cascade (5.8 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used 15 Min From End
Chinese Cascade (5.8 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End
Chinese Cascade (5.8 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used Dry-Hopped

Other Ingredients
Koppafloc 1 g used In Boil

Yeast: DCL US-56 SafAle American Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (66C/151F) w/Mash Out
Step: Rest at 66 degC for 60 mins
Step: Raise to and Mash out at 77 degC for 10 mins


************

Then 

*Recipe: Great Wall of Hops (MK II)*
Style: 10A-American Ale-American Pale Ale

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 30.00 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 21.00 l
Final Batch Volume: 20.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.036 SG
Expected OG: 1.050 SG
Expected FG: 1.012 SG
Expected ABV: 5.0 %
Expected ABW: 3.9 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 37.8
Expected Color: 5.3 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 74.9 %
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC

Fermentables
Australian BB Traditional Ale Malt 4.500 kg (94.7 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Dark Wheat Malt 0.250 kg (5.3 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
Chinese Marco Polo (Columbus) (12.0 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used 20 Min From End
Chinese Marco Polo (Columbus) (12.0 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used 5 Min From End
Chinese Marco Polo (Columbus) (12.0 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used At turn off
Chinese Marco Polo (Columbus) (12.0 % alpha) 30 g Loose Pellet Hops used Dry-Hopped

Other Ingredients
Koppafloc 1 g used In Boil

Yeast: DCL US-56 SafAle American Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (66C/151F) w/Mash Out
Step: Rest at 66 degC for 60 mins
Step: Raise to and Mash out at 77 degC for 10 mins


Any feedback appreciated!

Cheers


----------



## bradsbrew

havnt had time for an AG so I thought Id do a kit brew.

1.7kg Coopers sparkling kit
1.5kg blackrock pale malt boiled with 5lt water for 15min
30g Chinese Cluster 15min
30g 0min

22L
saflager 34/70 will ferment at 18

i know this is not ideal for the yeast but am hoping that it may throw some esters to match the coopers kit. At least i'll get an indication of what the clauster tastes like.

Cheers


----------



## benno1973

NickB said:


> Any feedback appreciated!
> 
> Cheers



Great idea! Late hopping should really bring out that hop character! Recipe looks the goods...


----------



## jimi

Flipped on my idea to do a fau-lager with the Saaz and am looking at an IPA with the MP. ATM it'll be someting like 95% Marris Otter 5%Vienna with an OG mid 60's and a IBU mid 50's. 
It's poor science to alter multiple variables but bugger it I'll do my first ever NoChill hopping as well with 20g or so in the cube.


----------



## NickB

Thanks KS, thought that the late hopping would be preferable to a big, bitter IPA in terms of assessing hop character...

Shall see if either become a house brew, and if so, how many multiple kilos will be ordered in the next BB h34r:



Cheers!

PS: Just sparging the first batch now


----------



## Sully

I'm willing to swap favours for some hops boys :wub: ...


----------



## Batz

What about a chinese hop brew swap?

Batz


----------



## FNQ Bunyip

Sully said:


> I'm willing to swap favours for some hops boys :wub: ...




You Slut .... B)


----------



## NickB

That sounds the goods Batz, however those with an aversion to APAs and IPAs should avoid h34r:

I'll be in though. Shall we say the Bat Cave, March 2010?

Cheers


----------



## NickB

FNQ Bunyip said:


> You Slut .... B)




You will note that the :wub: in this post in BB code is [chappoluvs]



Cheers


----------



## Batz

NickB said:


> That sounds the goods Batz, however those with an aversion to APAs and IPAs should avoid h34r:
> 
> I'll be in though. Shall we say the Bat Cave, March 2010?
> 
> Cheers




Absolutely
March 20th it is, so a Marchinese Fest?
Or just stinky, cheesy, lack of color, crumbly, don't smell right, I won't use them...chinese hop night.

Batz


----------



## NickB

AKA InCider on a good night........




Sounds good to me no matter what. As those real estate wankers say, Location, Location, Location. Any any function at the Bat Cave is good enough for me 

I'll be in regardless of the theme, company or kind of beers.

Will bring you a keg of Weizen if I remember Batz.... h34r:

Cheers


----------



## arogers

Just brewed a wild cat to take the Marco Polo for a test drive.

4kg pale
1kg munich
500g wheat

30gm 40mins
30gm 15mins
40gms 0mins

wlp013 london ale slurry from the last IPA

lets see how she goes


----------



## clarkey7

IPA down to 1024 (from 1071), will dry hop tomorrow for 3 days or so, then keg etc.... Not long now.
Tasted good, but not attenuated enough yet - I reckon it'll get down to about 1015ish.

It has been chugging along nicely at 18 degrees since Tuesday morning.

Very rounded hop flavour profile, with a lovely lingering bitterness. Not the massive Cascady hop aroma I was hoping for, but I don't get that from no-chill anyhow. DH will fix that.

Can't rush these things......

PB


----------



## Damian44

This recipe isnt going to put a big hole in my hop supply, but i need to use the Wheat malt.

Batch 23L OG 1.045

3.00 kg Wheat Malt 
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) 
10.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade (Chinese)[5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 2.1 IBU 

Any suggestions for a yeast? I was thinking 1010 American Wheat or 3942 - Belgian Wheat?


----------



## benno1973

Pocket Beers said:


> Very rounded hop flavour profile, with a lovely lingering bitterness. Not the massive Cascady hop aroma I was hoping for, but I don't get that from no-chill anyhow. DH will fix that.



Totally agree. I put 100g in 10min after flameout. Even with 30-40g I'd normally get a lot of aroma, but not from these Chinese hops. Having said that, the flavour is really pronounced and nice, and maybe the aroma was stripped because I used the Nottingham yeast (which crawled up the 10L headspace and blew out my airlock on day 1). It's been a pretty violent ferment...


----------



## real_beer

Sort of :icon_offtopic: but relevant to some.

While reading through a chapter on hops today in one of my books, I thought the following statement so obvious that it could be easily overlooked by a lot of people (me included) who might have bought the Chinese hops:
"Hop powder should be used first because of the likelihood of deterioration".​I think many people might use them like breakfast serial where all the crumbs and dust get eaten in the last bowl of the packet. As some in the hop buy might have got a bit of powder I thought this might be worth passing on.

Also this reference from Chappo's post when he picked up the hops:

"Now all the baggies arrived in good condition and sealed. Surprising considering the condition of the carboard boxes they came in quite bashed and battered. They have not been vacuum sealed but I do feel they have been at least flushed nitro or CO2. As for refridgeration during transit I also have my doubts but I'm no where near being an expert in these matters. I haven't cracked any other varieties open yet except for the varieties Ross got and have to say his descriptions on the website are pretty accurate."
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=37472&view=findpost&p=563318​And because so many people are going to be using a vacuum sealer very soon, from the same chapter:

"Hop pellets are usually packaged in laminated foil-plastic bags for better storage life. The bags may be fully evacuated and sealed (hard pack); or back filled with an inert gas (soft pack), which results in much improved stability of brewing constituents. One advantage of hard packs is their low volume; another is the integrity of the packaging is immediately noticeable. The disadvantage is that the vacuum packing may lead to agglomeration of pellets into solid blocks, particularly if the resin content is too high. Back flushing may be necessary in order for the pellets to remain in pourable form. European hops are usually soft packed with nitrogen."

So I guess the message there is if the hops are sticky it's best to vacuum seal them in the size you plan to use them in.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Steve

bradsbrew said:


> saflager 34/70 will ferment at 18
> 
> i know this is not ideal for the yeast but am hoping that it may throw some esters to match the coopers kit.



Now thats a first! I wouldnt dare do that in a hope to get something you might not?
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Bribie G

back in my kits n bits days I used 34/70 a couple of times in July and August, at a bit below 20 (no fridge in those days) and it turned out ok.


----------



## bradsbrew

Steve said:


> Now thats a first! I wouldnt dare do that in a hope to get something you might not?
> Cheers
> Steve



Yeah I know what your saying Steve but i can be an optimist at times. Its only a keg filler really and a good brew to serve the relies that think this AG beer is a waste of time and that any homebrew should be aged for at least 6 months before it gets any good. <_< 

Cheers 

Edit= Would the yeastcake from this brew be ok used in a proper lager brewed at 10 degree? anyone?


----------



## bradsbrew

Put down an APA this arv.

3kg Vienna
3kb BB ale
2kg Aromatic
400g carared
250 wheat

30g Chinese cascade FWH
40g Chinese cascade 60min
15g chinese cascade 30min
15g chinese cascade 25min
15g chinese cascade 20min
15g chinese cascade 15min
15g chinese cascade 10min
32g Fuggles 5min
50g chinese cascade 0min

38 litres @ 1050

Doesnt have that big cascade smell but time will tell.

Cheers Brad


----------



## Bribie G

I only have one UK bitter in the system at the moment so I'm doing one today, just a simple quaffing one along the lines of a Midlands type working man's bitter, and taking the plunge with the Chinese Cluster. Why not.

Ale malt plus some dark crystal. I've been faffing around with Choc chit, Carafa, Carared, Carawank lately so back to basics.

40g Chinese Cluster 90 mins
20g Northdown 10 mins

Some sugar
Wyeast Whitbread.

Should be tapping the keg on Christmas day.


----------



## daemon

My CCAPA is down to 1010 so I took a sample to force carbonate with a carbonation cap (great device for sampling beers early!). It certainly needed the dry hopping to add some aroma back into it, hydrometer samples were fairly plain up until then. The resulting beer is a nice summer ale but certainly not a direct replacement for US Cascade. I'm not an expert in taste but it reminds me of a slightly subdued Riwaka (NZ) hop style. There's some subtle grapefruit flavour and slightly lemony taste to me, which matches my very pale ale nicely. 

Overall I'm happy with the hops for the price and the experience, just don't expect "true" Cascade flavours and you won't be disappointed. Going to brew a more subtle summer ale for Xmas for the non-craftbrew drinkers and this would go nicely in smaller quantities. For an IPA it'd need at least one other hop to add some flavour, if the Marco Polo is ok then it might be a nice combo.


----------



## arogers

regulator said:


> Just brewed a wild cat to take the Marco Polo for a test drive.
> 
> 4kg pale
> 1kg munich
> 500g wheat
> 
> 30gm 40mins
> 30gm 15mins
> 40gms 0mins
> 
> wlp013 london ale slurry from the last IPA
> 
> lets see how she goes



just checked this one, its already at 1.018 (from OG of 1.056-ish on saturday night)

was expecting the hydro sample to be more bitter but theres still a lot of yeast floating round so will wait and see how it turns out...


----------



## bradsbrew

One thing I did notice when brewing with the cascade yesterday. was the slight smell of amarillo??

Brad


----------



## dr K

bradsbrew said:


> Put down an APA this arv.
> 
> 3kg Vienna
> 3kb BB ale
> 2kg Aromatic
> 400g carared
> 250 wheat
> 
> 30g Chinese cascade FWH
> 40g Chinese cascade 60min
> 15g chinese cascade 30min
> 15g chinese cascade 25min
> 15g chinese cascade 20min
> 15g chinese cascade 15min
> 15g chinese cascade 10min
> 32g Fuggles 5min
> 50g chinese cascade 0min
> 
> 38 litres @ 1050
> 
> Doesnt have that big cascade smell but time will tell.
> 
> Cheers Brad



Chancing my luck, but is because you actually did not use Cascade?
Jokes aside, its pretty standard knowledge that hops are possibly the most terroir influenced of all, with the possible exception of truffles, we know far more about hops than truffles with regard to terroir so lets leave that discussion for later.
EKG and Fuggles grow above the cliffs of Dover (well in the vicinity), an area well proved for its hopability, take some cuttings from Zatec or the Hallertau Valley, of course they will flourish but with considerably different results from their source, as indeed EKG planted in Zatec would produce an entirely different profile.
Of course NZ has done very well with research institutes over past number of decades developing unique triploids based on european and american hops, as well as their own varieties. Now I am not saying that China cannot do the same in the future or indeed have not done so already, the only comment I make is..when was the last time the kiwis executed their chief of the FDA for allowing massive fraud, shoddy practices and whatever else just to get foodstuffs, agricultural product and drugs on the market?? Or for that matter the Americans, the Czechs, the Germans, the British or even the Aussies....
I am not knocking the hops btw, I am sure they are fine, just the influence a name may have.
K


----------



## MarkBastard

bradsbrew said:


> One thing I did notice when brewing with the cascade yesterday. was the slight smell of amarillo??
> 
> Brad



Oh no! Better ask for a refund :lol:


----------



## bradsbrew

dr K said:


> Chancing my luck, but is because you actually did not use Cascade?
> Jokes aside, its pretty standard knowledge that hops are possibly the most terroir influenced of all, with the possible exception of truffles, we know far more about hops than truffles with regard to terroir so lets leave that discussion for later.
> EKG and Fuggles grow above the cliffs of Dover (well in the vicinity), an area well proved for its hopability, take some cuttings from Zatec or the Hallertau Valley, of course they will flourish but with considerably different results from their source, as indeed EKG planted in Zatec would produce an entirely different profile.
> Of course NZ has done very well with research institutes over past number of decades developing unique triploids based on european and american hops, as well as their own varieties. Now I am not saying that China cannot do the same in the future or indeed have not done so already, the only comment I make is..when was the last time the kiwis executed their chief of the FDA for allowing massive fraud, shoddy practices and whatever else just to get foodstuffs, agricultural product and drugs on the market?? Or for that matter the Americans, the Czechs, the Germans, the British or even the Aussies....
> I am not knocking the hops btw, I am sure they are fine, just the influence a name may have.
> K



I think you are on the money in regards to it not tasting like US cascade but hopefully it has some C hops qualities in regards to flavour and aroma.




Mark^Bastard said:


> Oh no! Better ask for a refund :lol:



I like amarillo but usually refer to it as " smells like cats piss"  


Cheers Brad


----------



## Bribie G

dr K said:


> Chancing my luck, but is because you actually did not use Cascade?
> Jokes aside, its pretty standard knowledge that hops are possibly the most terroir influenced of all, with the possible exception of truffles, we know far more about hops than truffles with regard to terroir so lets leave that discussion for later.
> EKG and Fuggles grow above the cliffs of Dover (well in the vicinity), an area well proved for its hopability, take some cuttings from Zatec or the Hallertau Valley, of course they will flourish but with considerably different results from their source, as indeed EKG planted in Zatec would produce an entirely different profile.
> Of course NZ has done very well with research institutes over past number of decades developing unique triploids based on european and american hops, as well as their own varieties. Now I am not saying that China cannot do the same in the future or indeed have not done so already, the only comment I make is..when was the last time the kiwis executed their chief of the FDA for allowing massive fraud, shoddy practices and whatever else just to get foodstuffs, agricultural product and drugs on the market?? Or for that matter the Americans, the Czechs, the Germans, the British or even the Aussies....
> I am not knocking the hops btw, I am sure they are fine, just the influence a name may have.
> K



Fuggles are not grown in Kent, but in the UK West Midlands in Herefordshire. If they tried to grow them in Kent, however, I agree that they would probably taste different, in much the same way as NZ Fuggles are similar, but different to, Herefordshire Fuggles.


----------



## Ross

BribieG said:


> Fuggles are not grown in Kent, but in the UK West Midlands in Herefordshire. If they tried to grow them in Kent, however, I agree that they would probably taste different, in much the same way as NZ Fuggles are similar, but different to, Herefordshire Fuggles.




Mainly grown in the Midlands these days Bribie, but originated in Kent.

"Fuggles Hops - The Fuggle was propagated in Kent by Mr. Richard Fuggle of Brenchley in 1875, the plant having first been noticed in about 1861, growing at HorsmondenIt became the most widely grown hop in England (in 1949, it made up 78% of the English hop acreage) until Verticillium Wilt made growth impossible in much of Kent and Sussex. 

Now it represents only about 9% of the English crop, being grown chiefly in the West Midlands. Brewing character: Perhaps the most famous and revered of English hops. Fuggle has typical English flavour, frequently blended with Goldings to improve "drinkability" of the beer, and adding roundness and fullness to the palate. This robust hop contributes all the essential characteristics of flavour, aroma and balanced bitterness to ales, particularly as its relatively low alpha acid content requires a high hopping rate to achieve desired bitterness levels. Sometimes used as a distinctive dry hop."

Cheers Ross


----------



## ///

Ross said:


> Fuggles .... Sometimes used as a distinctive dry hop.



Rocks when chucked in late or mixed with other hops of similar parentage in a lighter ale ... the old is not dead, just has some competition!

Scotty


----------



## dr K

Bribie
you are no doubt correct with your locale of the current and much diminished Fuggles crop, for whilst it's origins and fame are Kentish , fungal growth made it commercially un-viable above those white cliffs and the comparitively small remaining crop comes indeed from Herefordshire where it has, certainly since at least pre-war, grown acceptably well.
so yes, I take your advice fuggles (big red letters) are not grown in kent.

K

edit: Ross beat me to it!!..


----------



## Bribie G

I bow to your learned references - didn't realise they originated in Kent, having lived in Wales they were the mainstay of the beers there. Yes the UK crop isn't what it was, some members on the UK forums report that Europe is paying Kent farmers to plough in their hop yards to grow Canola etc. Maybe Chinese Challenger and Northdown next.


----------



## dr K

there has, for many years, been a grey area as to which came first, is or was Fuggles a variety of Goldings (and lets not get into cadastre) or Goldings of Fuggles ( an interesting chocken and egg debate given the origin of our current word fowl) but there is no doubt both were from Kent.

K


----------



## Bribie G

Just hopped in 50g of Cluster in my UK Midlands style Bitter - the pellets were quite resiny with a bit of 'cat piss' as I've heard it described - and after an initial burst the aroma has dissipated and become a bit grassy, so not a lot going on there. However I'm using them on this occasion as a workhorse bittering hop, like you would do with Newport etc, (edit: in an APA) and finishing the boil off with 20g of UK Northdown at 10 minutes. 

Gunna be an interesting tasting evening at BABBs in January


----------



## breaky

dr K said:


> ( an interesting chocken and egg debate )
> K



What ! Easter already??


----------



## clarkey7

My IPA will be ready to keg on thursday night after the 72hrs contact time with the (dry) hops..

Starting to wish that I'd gone for a smaller beer and it would have been ready by now. <_< 

Has anyone else got one pumped out yet?

PB


----------



## winkle

My MP APA has about 2 days left to run (should be kegged and chilling Thursday) - initial impression from the hydro sample are pine needles, grapefruit and high up-front bitterness.
Promising at this stage


----------



## dr K

breaky said:


> What ! Easter already??



No, just a reference to fuggles, fowls, and chickens


----------



## daemon

Pocket Beers said:


> My IPA will be ready to keg on thursday night after the 72hrs contact time with the (dry) hops..
> 
> Starting to wish that I'd gone for a smaller beer and it would have been ready by now. <_<
> 
> Has anyone else got one pumped out yet?
> 
> PB


Yep, cheated a bit and carbonated one bottle quickly, results are on the previous page of this thread. Will keg the remainder in the morning, need to get the fermenter / fridge free ASAP to finish the xmas brews off.

I'll be interested to see how you go with the IPA, my thoughts are that the flavour would be a bit too overwhelming as a single hop. Then again, I have plenty of Cascade to use so if it turns out ok I'll brew one in the new year


----------



## breaky

dr K said:


> No, just a reference to fuggles, fowls, and chickens



'an interesting chocken and egg debate" 

CHOCKEN - egg - easter - get it??

Sheesh, forget it


----------



## winkle

OK finally kegged up my Marco Polo #1 test batch ( a basic APA - single hopped to 72 IBUs).

NOTE: This beer still needs conditioning and filtering/getatine treatment - I collected one PET bottles worth when kegging, and crash chilled then force carbonated the PET because I was quite interested in the result and impatient. 
The initial impressions of the hop are-
*Aroma* - initially pine needles and citrus (think grapefruit & lime). Odd note in the background seems peppery to me. I suspect with a bit of time, this will prove to be a pretty reasonable aroma hop (read American hop substitute).
*Flavour* - Pine and citrus rind with a distinctive pine-like hop resin hit at the back of the palate. I'll give it some time before making my mind up if its suitable as a single hop beer. Not unpleasant. 
*Finish *- in these early days its a bit harsh up-front (not surprising). It gives a smooth resinous bitterness with an underlying strong bitterness. With its strong level of AA it'll be a good bittering hop.

I guess I'm giving it the thumbs up as a bittering hop, a cautious yes as a aroma hop and not sure just yet about the flavour profile, although I'm sure it would go well in a big hopped beer (IPA, AIPA, IIPA or American Brown) in combination with other hops.

I'm currently crash chilling the keg and will hit it with gelatine this weekend (unless someone has a gravity filter they want to bring over) and will provide a more detail appraisal when the beer is ready if anyone needs it.


----------



## clarkey7

winkle said:


> OK finally kegged up my Marco Polo #1 test batch ( a basic APA - single hopped to 72 IBUs).
> 
> NOTE: This beer still needs conditioning and filtering/getatine treatment - I collected one PET bottles worth when kegging, and crash chilled then force carbonated the PET because I was quite interested in the result and impatient.
> The initial impressions of the hop are-
> *Aroma* - initially pine needles and citrus (think grapefruit & lime). Odd note in the background seems peppery to me. I suspect with a bit of time, this will prove to be a pretty reasonable aroma hop (read American hop substitute).
> *Flavour* - Pine and citrus rind with a distinctive pine-like hop resin hit at the back of the palate. I'll give it some time before making my mind up if its suitable as a single hop beer. Not unpleasant.
> *Finish *- in these early days its a bit harsh up-front (not surprising). It gives a smooth resinous bitterness with an underlying strong bitterness. With its strong level of AA it'll be a good bittering hop.
> 
> I guess I'm giving it the thumbs up as a bittering hop, a cautious yes as a aroma hop and not sure just yet about the flavour profile, although I'm sure it would go well in a big hopped beer (IPA, AIPA, IIPA or American Brown) in combination with other hops.
> 
> I'm currently crash chilling the keg and will hit it with gelatine this weekend (unless someone has a gravity filter they want to bring over) and will provide a more detail appraisal when the beer is ready if anyone needs it.


Ditto Winkle,

I've just kegged my 60min IPA - 7.1 % Calcs as 73 IBU but beersmith doesn't differentiate < 5 min intervals.
(could be more) , have PET bottles chilled and carbonated and I am currently testing them.
Dry hopped with 60g 3 days ago.

Have a couple of pics for you guys:






I'm extremely happy with the results. Perhaps not as much aroma as I anticipated with all those dry hops.

I think Winkle and I are tasting resin because we put a shed load of hops in our beer  and some are still floating around in it.

Cheers,

PB


----------



## chappo1970

Merely reading between the lines but would it be fair to say that the Marco Polo is maybe better suited in a blended hop schedule? Say with good old centennial and or amarillo for a popping aroma?

PB, Winks and Daemon any comments?

Chap Chap


----------



## clarkey7

Chappo said:


> Merely reading between the lines but would it be fair to say that the Marco Polo is maybe better suited in a blended hop schedule? Say with good old centennial and or amarillo for a popping aroma?
> 
> PB, Winks and Daemon any comments?
> 
> Chap Chap


Chappo, mine was exclusive but liberal use of Cascade...
PB


----------



## chappo1970

Pocket Beers said:


> Chappo, mine was exclusive but liberal use of Cascade...
> PB



:lol: You're right PB. But thanks for the previous candid feedback. I must admit I am enjoying the feedback so far as it will certainly help me and hopefully others especially when I get around to brewing with these hops. I really want these hops to be a permanent feature in the brewery.


----------



## bum

Chappo said:


> I really want these hops to be a permanent feature in the brewery.



Unlike the last lot. h34r:


----------



## winkle

Chappo said:


> Merely reading between the lines but would it be fair to say that the Marco Polo is maybe better suited in a blended hop schedule? Say with good old centennial and or amarillo for a popping aroma?
> 
> PB, Winks and Daemon any comments?
> 
> Chap Chap



I'll give it time to be fair & judge correctly but I'm thinking it'd get a good match with either (amerillo popped into my mind first).
A few kiwi hops also spring to mind as being a good partner.


----------



## winkle

Pocket Beers said:


> Ditto Winkle,
> 
> I've just kegged my 60min IPA - 7.1 % Calcs as 73 IBU but beersmith doesn't differentiate < 5 min intervals.
> (could be more) , have PET bottles chilled and carbonated and I am currently testing them.
> Dry hopped with 60g 3 days ago.
> 
> Have a couple of pics for you guys:
> 
> View attachment 33976
> View attachment 33975
> 
> 
> I'm extremely happy with the results. Perhaps not as much aroma as I anticipated with all those dry hops.
> 
> *I think Winkle and I are tasting resin because we put a shed load of hops in our beer  and some are still floating around in it.*
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> PB




OOps, replys outta sinc
but yes you are correct, its not in the league of say - a galaxy - but its still a decent aroma hop. Just need it to clean up so I can talk about flavour profile proper like :icon_cheers:


----------



## daemon

Chappo said:


> Merely reading between the lines but would it be fair to say that the Marco Polo is maybe better suited in a blended hop schedule? Say with good old centennial and or amarillo for a popping aroma?
> 
> PB, Winks and Daemon any comments?
> 
> Chap Chap


Depending on what you're looking for flavour wise but for a more traditional APA I'd certainly blend the Chinese Cascade. It doesn't have the same punch as it's US heritage, with far more subdued flavours. I've got a 2nd batch brewing already with the Chinese Cascade, this time I've gone for a simple summer ale that's lightly hopped (~ 25IBU's, only 15g @ 10min for flavour) to see if the more mellow flavour suits. It'll be a basic house beer for xmas day for those who don't normally drink craft beer, but still something with a bit of flavour to it.

Beers look good winkle / PB, at least the feedback so far is fairly consistent.


----------



## Fourstar

Considering everyone thats used MP has gone for an overly high IBU count and naturally conditioning it, there would be an excessive amount of hop resins and particles in suspension. When i get around to mine i will filter it to clean it up and post the results. If time persists tonight i might make a light beer, 23L, 3.5%~ hopped to 30 IBU with Golden Promise as the grist:

Something like:

10 IBU - FWH
5 IBU - 20 Min
10 IBU 10 Min
5 IBU - 5 Min
50g Flameout/Whirlpool addition.

Should be enough hops there to give us an idea of how she really goes for bittering falvour and aroma. I'll use a repitch of 1272 for a hard fast ferment. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## bradsbrew

bradsbrew said:


> Put down an APA this arv.
> 
> 3kg Vienna
> 3kb BB ale
> 2kg Aromatic
> 400g carared
> 250 wheat
> 
> 30g Chinese cascade FWH
> 40g Chinese cascade 60min
> 15g chinese cascade 30min
> 15g chinese cascade 25min
> 15g chinese cascade 20min
> 15g chinese cascade 15min
> 15g chinese cascade 10min
> 32g Fuggles 5min
> 50g chinese cascade 0min
> 
> 38 litres @ 1050
> 
> Doesnt have that big cascade smell but time will tell.
> 
> Cheers Brad



This one finished at 1009 and I Carbed it up this morning....

Definately a bittering hop for me. Has a nice subtle flavour to it which doesnt really match the hop bill. I am glad I threw the fuggles in late. Cant really describe the flavour but IMO it would be a great hop to use in a Belgian Strong Ale. I will definately be using this hop again but will probably use it where I would usually use Williamette. All in all I am pretty happy with this hop. The challenge is to find a place for it.

Cheers Brad


----------



## benno1973

2kg aromatic?! I've never used it, but thought it similar to melanoidin? I' d struggle with more than 2% melanoidin in any beer!!


----------



## Bribie G

I now have 2 UK Special Bitters in Primary, both fermenting happily and both with 50g Cluster as the 90 minute hop. One of them is finished with 20g Northdown and the other with 20g Challenger. Should both be done and kegged in time for New Years Eve and it will be interesting to see if the Cluster makes a good background hop. Great aroma coming from airlocks. There will be plenty of bottles left after kegging as I've done my 25 L recipe this time round so bottles for BABBs :super: 

Don't know if I mentioned it but there's a The Drunk Arab Belgian with 80g Saaz and 2 plugs of Styrians currently 'lagering' for a couple of weeks, bottle after Christmas. I'm not kegging this one, bottling only so there's another one for the late January tasting.


----------



## Pumpy

I used some of my Saaz hops to finish 40 litres of Saison I mashed today with some really old Styrian Goldings to Bitter


----------



## raven19

Used all Marco Polo on this brew currently in the cube for this beer:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 16 Batz Altbier

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 33.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 20.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.12 kg Pale Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 47.08 % 
2.75 kg Munich (9.0 SRM) Grain 41.43 % 
0.40 kg Wheat (2.5 SRM) Grain 6.03 % 
0.31 kg Caramalt (125.0 SRM) Grain 4.71 % 
0.05 kg Choc Malt (1200.0 SRM) Grain 0.75 % 
12.62 gm Chinese Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 14.5 IBU 
18.94 gm Chinese Marco Polo [12.00 %] (45 min) Hops 20.0 IBU 
0.63 items Whirlfloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs 1056 (Wyeast) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: *** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.64 kg
----------------------------
*** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 17.29 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 9.69 L of water at 91.5 C 75.6 C


----------



## bradsbrew

Kaiser Soze said:


> 2kg aromatic?! I've never used it, but thought it similar to melanoidin? I' d struggle with more than 2% melanoidin in any beer!!



Its the dingemans aromatic this one.... 
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2948

I've been using it a bit lately. This is the most I've used in one batch i think. 

Cheers Brad


----------



## winkle

Brewed this with GravityGurus' arse-sistance on Saturday. Day went well except for me forgetting to adjust the ph  . And farting about with the new mash tun meant we got a bigger volume than really required but a good day was had. 

Chu Dat Hopf Phat
IIPA

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L

Ingredients

6.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 83.33 %
0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6.41 %
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 6.41 %
0.30 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
66.00 gm Nugget C [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 70.2 IBU
30.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.3 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
0.25 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc

US-05 double pack (rehydrated) 

Smelled great as it went in the fermenter.


----------



## jimi

My IPA (only 60IBUs not close to winkles 70IBU APA) with MP is still conditioning but I decided to chuck 20g of galaxy dry hopped in as the aroma was poor. I'm hoping it will be a good match / contrast for that peppery-ness that it has seemed to through in the flavour.

I am disappointed with the aroma considering the beer had 65g after 15mins + 20g in the NC cube (for a day).


----------



## mossyrocks

Chappo said:


> Merely reading between the lines but would it be fair to say that the Marco Polo is maybe better suited in a blended hop schedule? Say with good old centennial and or amarillo for a popping aroma?
> 
> PB, Winks and Daemon any comments?
> 
> Chap Chap



That's what I have carbing up at the moment. An Amarillo, Marco Polo & Centennial.

I'll give you an idea of flavour in the next day or so but the smell is magficient (more so from the Amraillo & Centennial I'd expect).

Cheers,

mossy


----------



## Bribie G

Just put my TDA "flyblown" belgian blond into lager-ale-ing for a couple of weeks before bottling and had a sneaky taste just now - the 80g Saaz and 2 Styrian plugs have blended beautifully - getting a good clean bittering from the Saaz and a nice floral something that's blending well with the fruit from the Belgian ale yeast. 
Again, good use as a workhorse hop and happy so far. 
I'll be lagering the all Saaz Chinese Pale Pilsener sometime during the week so looking forward to a sneaky of that one.


----------



## daemon

Just forced carbed a sample of my 2nd brew with the Chinese Cascade and it should be a good Xmas drink. Not perfectly suited still but hopped to 25IBU (60 min and small 10 min to add a touch of flavour) for the non-craft beer drinkers to quaff. Mostly just Galaxy malt with a splash of caramalt and carapils, at least the malt flavour is nice and clean (US-05 yeast @17C). Bittering isn't as clean as Super Alpha or similar that blend well with other hops so personally I'd only use them for APA's only. I also have my Sticks and Stones ready (Galaxy hops, so massive flavour and aroma) and a Dunkel-weizen so for those that enjoy flavour will be in for a treat 

Without trying to cast to many assertions, I'm dubious about how fresh the hops are. There's just no aroma to them and that normally happens to me with older hops. Just my thoughts anyway, it could be part of their packaging process that's stripping all the aroma as well.


----------



## Fourstar

Put these down lastnight for a mates 21st! I cant wait to finally test the Marco Polo for myself! Interstingly the saaz smelt more like your typical cascade when going into the boil, quite citrusy. The Cascade was quite earthy in the boil. Hopefully mine haven't been baggied incorrectly!  

Cieran 21st Cascade 
American Pale Ale 

Type: All Grain
Date: 20/12/2009 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 

Ingredients
4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 90.0 % 
0.30 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.0 % 
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (34.2 SRM) Grain 4.0 % 
50.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (20 min) Hops 20.1 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 14.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (0 min) Hops - 
2.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
6.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.6 % 
Bitterness: 34.7 IBU
Est Color: 4.8 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash In Add 14.00 L of water at 70.8 C 65.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 77.9 C 70.0 C 10 min 

Notes
2g cacl in mash
6g CaSO4 in Boil 





Cieran 21st Saaz 
Cream Ale 

Type: All Grain
Date: 20/12/2009 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 

Ingredients 
4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 90.0 % 
0.30 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.0 % 
0.20 kg Crystal (Joe White) (34.2 SRM) Grain 4.0 % 
20.00 gm Magnum [12.10%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 30.4 IBU 
20.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (20 min) Hops 6.0 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (0 min) Hops - 
3.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 % 
Bitterness: 36.4 IBU
Est Color: 4.8 SRM 

Mash Profile
Mash In Add 14.00 L of water at 70.8 C 65.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 78.0 C 70.0 C 10 min 

Notes
2g cacl in mash
3g CaCl 3g CaSO4 in Boil


----------



## winkle

> Chu Dat Hopf Phat
> IIPA
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 20.00 L
> Boil Size: 22.89 L
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> 6.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 83.33 %
> 0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6.41 %
> 0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 6.41 %
> 0.30 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
> 25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
> 66.00 gm Nugget C [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 70.2 IBU
> 30.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.3 IBU
> 25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
> 25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
> 25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU



Just in case anyone was interested beside me, this has cranked down to 1.020 with a few days dry hopping to go. Its a nice red/brown and smells great, I'd dropped the dry hopping to 10gm BTW. Hydro sample was bloody tasty too, this should be far more successful than the Marco Polo single hopped beer (which will need considerable more conditioning time to lose the resinous mouthfeel).


----------



## AndrewQLD

Drinking a Golden Ale at the moment, bittered with Marco polo and flavour/aroma with amarillo.
I'm happy with the Marco Polo as a bittering hop, it's smooth and didn't affect the amarillo flavour in any way. Mind you I didn't use a ton of the Marco Polo just used it to sub out the Super Alpha.
Nice beer.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Bribie G

I've just kegged a Belgian with 80g of Chinese Saaz and a couple of Styrian Plugs added very late. Bittering and flavouring are spotless, lets see how the #2 Saaz turn out in February.
Racked a UK Special Bitter into cold conditioning last night - 50g Chinese Cluster and 20g Northdown at 10 mins. Tasting very promising.

When that's out of the way it will be followed into CC by a similar beer with 50g Cluster and 20g Challenger 10 minutes.

Now to attempt a Timohee Tayrors Randrord


----------



## Fourstar

Just started the sparge on my Marco Polo Pale Ale.

Marco? POLO! 
American Pale Ale 

Type: All Grain
Date: 24/12/2009 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0 

Ingredients
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 53.6 % 
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 35.7 % 
0.30 kg Crystal (Joe White) (34.2 SRM) Grain 5.4 % 
0.20 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 % 
0.10 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (17.3 SRM) Grain 1.8 % 
40.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (15 min) Hops 26.5 IBU 
10.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 14.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (5 min) Hops 5.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (0 min) Hops - 
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
6.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 46.4 IBU 
Est Color: 6.7 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 14.62 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 78.4 C 70.0 C 10 min 

Notes
2g cacl in mash
6g CaSO4 in Boil


----------



## NickB

Just kegged my Great Wall of Hops MKI (Chinese Cascade)

This was dry hopped with 30g Cascade for 2 days, then filtered and force carbed.

Don't taste any off flavours, but the flavour and aroma of these hops are somewhat subdued compared to the American varieties. Have to say though, that the Chinese Cascade tastes pretty damn similar to the NZ Cascade to me. Fruity, with a little peach and passionfruit, but nothing over the top.

They get the thumbs up from me, but I will be using some US hops late in the boil or to dry hop the next batch to add extra punch.


Cheers


----------



## NickB

Just filtered an carbed the Great Wall of Hops MKII (Marco Polo)....

Could be the fact that the carbonation is lacking, or the fact that it's just been kegged, but I get a distinctly harsh aftertaste to this beer. Hop bill was the same as the previous batch, but just a little later in the boil due to the AA%, so the IBU, ABV etc should be very close.

It's not terribly unpleasant, but it'a not a flavour I really like. 

From what I've seen, combining the Chinese Cascade, plus the Marco Polo should yield a decent APA style beer, but you would need to up your hops by as much as 50-60% to compensate for the subdued flavour and aroma from these hops.

I think these are closer to NZ cascade than anything else.

I will say, the MP tastes exactly as it smells (well, when you dry hop it anyway!), but I would say it smells like an american hop.

Final verdict: The MP will make a pretty bloody good (and damn cheap) bittering hop for US style beers, and the Cascade will work well in filling out the flavour side of APAs in combination with actual American hops...

Verdict to come on Chinese Saaz and Cluster 

Cheers!


----------



## browndog

Here is the APA I plan on doing with my chinese cascade next brew, with 120g of cascade, it should show some aroma you would think.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chop Chop 30 APA
Brewer: Browndog
Asst Brewer: Jess
Style: American Pale Ael
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 32.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.25 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM)Grain 82.52 % 
0.30 kg Amber Malt (Joe White) (23.0 SRM) Grain 5.83 % 
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.83 % 
0.30 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.83 % 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (30 min) Hops 14.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days)Hops - 
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US05 From Trub (Safale) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.15 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 13.44 L of water at 78.6 C 65.0 C 


cheers

Browndog


----------



## NickB

That looks suspiciously like my recipe in regard to the hops...however I hopburst mine, 25, 15, 10 and dry hop.

Cheers


----------



## browndog

NickB said:


> That looks suspiciously like my recipe in regard to the hops...however I hopburst mine, 25, 15, 10 and dry hop.
> 
> Cheers



What can I say Nick, Great minds think alike!, looking forward to a side by side comparison mate.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## NickB

Sounds like a plan. I'm leaning towards liking the MP slightly more than the cascade, but I do think both will work best with other hops.

:icon_offtopic: Can't wait to hear how you like the Citra hops... I have some as well!

Cheers


----------



## browndog

NickB said:


> Sounds like a plan. I'm leaning towards liking the MP slightly more than the cascade, but I do think both will work best with other hops.
> 
> :icon_offtopic: Can't wait to hear how you like the Citra hops... I have some as well!
> 
> Cheers



Unfortunately, after brewing with it and smelling and tasting it seems to be a pretty run of the mill american hop. I hope the proof will be in the pudding.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## clarkey7

browndog said:


> Here is the APA I plan on doing with my chinese cascade next brew, with 120g of cascade, it should show some aroma you would think.


I put 180g during the boil and 60g dryhop in 21L with these CC hops.
I'm more than happy with the bitterness and flavour...BUT the aroma was underdone for what I threw at this beer.

In future I will use CC for bittering and flavour mainly and combine with other hops for late additions and DH.

But we all wanted to know what they were like so we single hopped all our beers...

PB


----------



## daemon

The keg of my Summer Ale was barely lasted through Christmas day and was nearly perfect. Galaxy malt to 5%, 60min bittering edition to 20IBU's and a 10min 10g addition to add just a splash of flavour. There were a few that could pick a slight lemon flavour but otherwise the usual XXXX / TED's sat in the eskys while this was available. 

Not a bad hop for this style because it's bland / nearly aroma free. Would be ok blended in an IPA/APA as well but not overly fussed with the Chinese Cascade as a single flavour / aroma hop.


----------



## Fourstar

I'm half way thru the boil on a Pseudo Pilsner, all w/ Chinese Saaz. should be a good beer to slam back over the hot summer days ahead.

Nothing harder than sweating it out brewing in 37 deg Melbourne heat. I'm sweating like a Chinese hop picker! :beerbang: 

Chinese Pseudo Pilsner 
Bohemian Pilsner 

Type: All Grain
Date: 30/12/2009 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 

Ingredients
4.65 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 94.9 % 
0.25 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.1 % 
40.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 21.7 IBU 
60.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (20 min) Hops 18.0 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (0 min) Hops - 
7.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 %
Bitterness: 39.7 IBU
Est Color: 3.2 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 13.72 L of water at 73.1 C 67.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 9.80 L of water at 74.8 C 70.0 C 10 min 

Notes
3g mash cacl
4g Boil cacl


----------



## winkle

Daemon said:


> The keg of my Summer Ale was barely lasted through Christmas day and was nearly perfect. Galaxy malt to 5%, 60min bittering edition to 20IBU's and a 10min 10g addition to add just a splash of flavour. There were a few that could pick a slight lemon flavour but otherwise the usual XXXX / TED's sat in the eskys while this was available.
> 
> Not a bad hop for this style because it's bland / nearly aroma free. Would be ok blended in an IPA/APA as well but not overly fussed with the Chinese Cascade as a single flavour / aroma hop.



+1 Donno why but both the Cascade and Marco Polo had a fair bit of aroma (though nowhere near as much as you'd expect) coming out of the fermenters but after a weeks cool keg conditioning almost zip :blink: 
The AIPA I brewed will have to be dry hopped (with NZ hops) in keg to provide some decent aroma, this after using 25gm Chinese Cascade at 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, and 15gm dry hop! Flavour seems muted but ok at the moment - I hope it doesn't do a Marco Polo and fade out as well  .


----------



## davewaldo

Hi Everyone,

Quick question.... I'm trying to discover the true AA% of the Chinese Cascade Hops. On the 1st page of this thread it says they are 4.5%. Many of the recipes in this thread say they are 5.5 or 5.8. The craftbrewer site syas they are 5.8

The problem is, I've made a Bright ale which I bittered with them calculated at 4.5%, and its tasting more bitter than I planned.

I've tried searching through the mountains of posts but can't find the answer.

Any help would be great.

Cheers,

David.


----------



## bradsbrew

davewaldo said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Quick question.... I'm trying to discover the true AA% of the Chinese Cascade Hops. On the 1st page of this thread it says they are 4.5%. Many of the recipes in this thread say they are 5.5 or 5.8. The craftbrewer site syas they are 5.8
> 
> The problem is, I've made a Bright ale which I bittered with them calculated at 4.5%, and its tasting more bitter than I planned.
> 
> I've tried searching through the mountains of posts but can't find the answer.
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> David.



Gday Dave, Mate I have kept my cascade hops but i will put them at 10% when calculating IBU because IMO they are alot higher than we were quoted. This is just what I will be doing personally when I get back to using them and I will only use them as a bittering hop in conjuntion with late US cascade and chinook.

Brad


----------



## dth

After lurking for some time I'm going to make my first real post here.

Not knowing how good the Chinese hops were, I didn't want to risk a huge amount of beer on something that could prove to be completely undrinkable. As my mashing setup isn't really a suitable size for single batches (having a 50L mash tun makes it more suitable for at least double if not triple batches) I decided to do an extract brew. It was also my first ever extract, having skipped straight from K&K to full mash after tasting the amazing flavours from my brother-in-laws full mash beers. I decided to do a sort of APA with the recipe is as follows:

US APA - Multicultural APA (German/Australian Malt, UK Yeast, Chinese Hops)

1.50Kg Liquid Wheat Malt Extract
0.50Kg Dried Malt Extract
0.25Kg Weyermann Carapils
0.25Kg Dextrose

Hop Schedule:
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 17g 60min
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 20g 15min
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 15g 5min
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 18g Dry Hopped

Approx 24.9IBU (bit under for an APA, but I wanted to get a feel for the hops before going too over the top)

Yeast Safale-S04 (I know, not really suited to an American style, but it was the best option I had on hand)


I used the Carapils to help give it a bit more flavour and help increase the body because of the dextrose. I don't currently have really good temperature control, and with the weather here being 35C+ most days I decided to overpitch the yeast to help try and minimize ester production. With the huge amount of yeast and high temps it was fully fermented out within about 3 days. Due to illness, I didn't get around to kegging it for more than a week after that, but I was planning on leaving it for a while to help clean up the high temp ferment a bit.

When I kegged it there was intense hop aroma, smelled and tasted absolutely lovely, a bit unbalanced perhaps but good for being straight from the fermenter. After a week in the keg the flavour and aroma has mellowed and blended a bit but still has a good presence. The bitterness is great, nothing too harsh and I would definitely use these hops as a bittering addition in US style beers.

Unfortunately I've never used real American Cascade so I can't compare, but from this impression I feel the Chinese Cascade is quite adequate. If I manage not to drink it all too quickly I'll have to see how the flavour/aroma goes with age as some reports have said dies right of after a couple weeks. If the flavour and aroma stick around all right I'll use these hops for the full schedule again no worries. If not, then I'll use them only for bittering or for occasions where the beer will be drunk shortly after production. 

Overall its made a great easy drinking quaffer, balanced with a great fruitiness and decent bitterness perfect for the hot weather here at the moment.


----------

