# Pauline on Q&A



## Ducatiboy stu (18/7/16)

Hole....lee...****...


When she is sitting next to Senator Dastyari and he says that he is a Muslim...she didnt even ******* know.... :lol:


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## MHB (18/7/16)

One more addition to the list of things Pauline doesn't know, starting with Xenophobe...
Mark


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## SBOB (18/7/16)

But she's so eloquent in expressing her well thought out and completely logical arguments... 

/sarcasm


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## LAGERFRENZY (18/7/16)

MHB said:


> One more addition to the list of things Pauline doesn't know, starting with Xenophobe...
> Mark


Its a much quicker option to list all of the things that Pauline does know, starting with Jackshit. Twill be interesting on the cross benches every time that she encounters Senator Xenophon


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## booargy (18/7/16)

PAULINE FOR RM!
now there's some big shoes to fill.


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## technobabble66 (18/7/16)

Hopefully she will be the greatest gift to Australia in illustrating how utterly embarrassing and unacceptable ignorance, intolerance & disrespect is. 
Rather than something to be proudly defended. As is currently the redneck or Far Right norm. 

I'm not saying everything's peachy and there's no room for discontent. But her version is anathema to what I would've thought is the core spirit of Australian culture - fairness, tolerance and decency.


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## LAGERFRENZY (18/7/16)

You are spot on Technobabbles - these guys just undo themselves by virtue of opening their mouths. At their peak they once actually had 11 members elected into the Queensland State Government. They had a voice, they commanded attention and they were all discredited and done with in due course.


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## Mikedub (18/7/16)

seems to be a climate for ignorance, intolerance & disrespect, e.g Trump, 
Pauline never did answer if she was hateful, ignorant or scared, my guess is all 3


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## madpierre06 (19/7/16)

The best way to make her redundant isd to address the factors that give rise to her seeming to be a voice for the disaffected....if only the ignorant or intolerant follwed her, she wouoldn't last long. They really are not that numerous.

And Peter Beattie agrees with me, so I must be right.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-attacks-only-make-pauline-stronger/news-story/cf47c7be54d20bb636fdda5c8ef6a528


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/7/16)

It was gobsmackingly beautiful to watch her last night...Your Honor... I rest my case


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## Yob (19/7/16)

watching this now and ye gods.. she gives me the shits something fierce...


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## mofox1 (19/7/16)

Yob said:


> watching this now and ye gods.. she gives me the shits something fierce...


Sure it wasn't delayed onset of roo stew consequences?

But yeah, PH.. glad I missed it.


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## Dave70 (19/7/16)

Mikedub said:


> seems to be a *climate for **ignorance*, intolerance & disrespect, e.g Trump,
> Pauline never did answer if she was hateful, ignorant or scared, my guess is all 3


Ironically, another topic she seems to think is in need of 'debate'. I guess she finds a 97%, give or take scientific consensus for anthropogenic climate change unconvincing. 
Frankly I couldn't give a Tuppenny **** for the hurt feelings of religious minorities or the far left, its when she starts stammering away on issues such a vaccination and its links to autism and cancer, that will cost lives and cause misery. 
Perhaps she was asked to 'please explain' her views on Q & A? 
I don't know. I didn't bother watching. I'm not that much of a masochist.


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## lost at sea (19/7/16)

http://www.factcheckonenation.com.au/

someone is already on the job of dissecting her already frail "policies".


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## fraser_john (19/7/16)

madpierre06 said:


> "to address the factors that give rise to her seeming to be a voice for the disaffected"


That is the key point both here and with Trump in the US. Successive Australian governments have failed to serve the people properly, but rather follow the ideology of their extreme factions. That is not what people want, people what good governance with good outcomes for all. We have not seen this since the Hawke/Keating era, and they were not even popular with their own voters for many years after the fact, but, their policies were good for the country and the people.

So now, we see the rise of the disaffected. Not sure if this election will result in change from any party, but I certainly hope so!


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## klangers (19/7/16)

The world has changed significantly, and the balance of power and wealth has also moved. This has developed pockets of people who have seen their traditional, largely manual, work dry up. Without the opportunities for re-training or education, and/or perhaps because their abilities are simply mismatched to the expectations/demands of society, these people are marginalised further. This breeds discontent; and these people are afraid of their uncertain future.

Fear causes people to lash out.

Just like Trump and the Leave campaign of Brexit, her success is completely due to being able to recognise these disaffected people and simplify their problems into nice, easy-to-understand divisions of "us vs them". Hell, even the widely accepted political "left vs right" is total bullshit. Everything is a continuum (except when we get to quantum scales like the Plank length x10^-34m h34r: ) 

People want to believe the explanation that's the most simple. It sure is easier to say that "all muslims are bad" rather than delve into the infinite complexity of reality.


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## pcmfisher (19/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> Ironically, another topic she seems to think is in need of 'debate'. I guess she finds a 97%, give or take scientific consensus for anthropogenic climate change unconvincing.
> Frankly I couldn't give a Tuppenny **** for the hurt feelings of religious minorities or the far left, its when she starts stammering away on issues such a vaccination and its links to autism and cancer, that will cost lives and cause misery.
> Perhaps she was asked to 'please explain' her views on Q & A?
> I don't know. I didn't bother watching. I'm not that much of a masochist.


No, she wasn't asked about her vaccination views. I was waiting and hoping but it didn't happen.

I think she should have asked one of the Muslim questioners if they thought that death was an appropriate punishment for apostasy.


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## Toper (19/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> Ironically, another topic she seems to think is in need of 'debate'. I guess she finds a 97%, give or take scientific consensus for anthropogenic climate change unconvincing.
> Frankly I couldn't give a Tuppenny **** for the hurt feelings of religious minorities or the far left, its when she starts stammering away on issues such a vaccination and its links to autism and cancer, that will cost lives and cause misery.
> Perhaps she was asked to 'please explain' her views on Q & A?
> I don't know. I didn't bother watching. I'm not that much of a masochist.


Oooh yes.
Her anti vaxx views show her complete scientific ignorance of the issue.I do a lot of work with ASD groups and the 'vaccines cause autism' bullshit pisses everyone off massively.Pseudoscience and woonacy.


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## manticle (19/7/16)

pcmfisher said:


> No, she wasn't asked about her vaccination views. I was waiting and hoping but it didn't happen.
> 
> I think she should have asked one of the Muslim questioners if they thought that death was an appropriate punishment for apostasy.



I don't think she could pronounce apostasy


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## Vini2ton (19/7/16)

Like I said, she won't last. Whoever's looking after her was crazy to let her go on Q and A! She doesn't possess the intellectual skills to carry on a decent debate about anything really. She's a one trick pony and quite honestly I'm embarrassed by the fact that my countryfolk have elected her to be an Australian federal senator. She is offensive to the extreme and her only saving grace is that she keeps right-minded people focused on how they should not think. Adolf would of creamed his jodphers.


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## MHB (19/7/16)

No its great, they form a party, some smart cookie will hack the database then we will have a list... a lovely little list, and not one of them will be...
Mark

Apologies to G&S
M


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## wide eyed and legless (19/7/16)

After 84 people have been killed in Nice by a supposedly Islamist terrorist, and the slaughter and beheading of conscripts in Turkey by the Muslim Brother hood and the AKP in an attempted coup (rumored to be instigated by Erdogan himself) I would imagine Pauline Hanson's One Nation will find bolstered support in Australia. Will she get more money than the $200, 000 a week the more members of her party get into senate?


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/7/16)

But she is so condescending.... it was just beautiful to watch.....

It really does put things into perspective

I bet the Senate is going to be balls of fun now with the governing party embarking on some navel gazing B)


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> After 84 people have been killed in Nice by a *supposedly Islamist terrorist,* and the slaughter and beheading of conscripts in Turkey by the Muslim Brother hood and the AKP in an attempted coup (rumored to be instigated by Erdogan himself) I would imagine Pauline Hanson's One Nation will find bolstered support in Australia. Will she get more money than the $200, 000 a week the more members of her party get into senate?


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## Dave70 (20/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> After 84 people have been killed in Nice by a supposedly Islamist terrorist, and the slaughter and beheading of conscripts in Turkey by the Muslim Brother hood and the AKP in an attempted coup (rumored to be instigated by Erdogan himself) I would imagine Pauline Hanson's One Nation will find bolstered support in Australia. Will she get more money than the $200, 000 a week the more members of her party get into senate?


I'd say Mohamad Bouhlel is in about the same league as Man Haron Monis. A sociopathic narcissist first, muslim second. And since the doctrine of radical islam is basically psychopathic, it made a good fit. 
I can understand the rise of nationalism and the far right in Europe - and it _is_ on the rise, France in particular has endured an appalling number of islamist inspired attacks, but at the same time I'm heartened that the best (worst) we can do is elect a cartoonish dunce like Hanson. She is clearly out of her intellectual depth in anything but a crowd or like minded fawners. She's not to be taken seriously, much less encouraged with cash.


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## wide eyed and legless (20/7/16)

If you can find a link stu between ISIS or any other terror group and Mohamed Bouhlel you have done better than the French government, as Dave points out the similarity of Man Haron Monis just a psychopath who IS would claim as their own, he had been treated for psychiatric and mental problems, and all the terrorist hype has further fanned the flames of the extreme right


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## Mikedub (20/7/16)

[SIZE=12pt]Pauline’s ignorance makes her appear vulnerable when she is out played, which only serves to strengthen her supporter’s belief in her, as I imagine many too see any logical dismantling of her views as an example of the lefty PC basket weavers creating a smoke screen while laying out the red carpet for the baddies. For the sheer Schadenfreude value it would be good to see Leigh Sales interview Pauline, but she really shouldn’t be given that type of platform. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I guess with Mark Latham and Clive Palmer out of the political frame we needed a new arseclown for the media to fill their cycle [/SIZE]


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> If you can find a link stu between ISIS or any other terror group and Mohamed Bouhlel


I never said there was a link


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## technobabble66 (20/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> If you can find a link stu between ISIS or any other terror group and Mohamed Bouhlel you have done better than the French government, as Dave points out the similarity of Man Haron Monis just a psychopath who IS would claim as their own, he had been treated for psychiatric and mental problems, and all the terrorist hype has further fanned the flames of the extreme right


And that's the "beauty" of the latest iteration of terrorism - it's now evolved into a nebulous psychopathic cause that simply provides a focused outlet or excuse for enraged psychopaths to explode into violence. No link is required - just go out and do something in our name. If it wasn't such an abomination to humanity there's a certain brilliance in it's psychology. It taps straight into any level of discontent, without any form of organisation required.

With regards to the escalation of terrorist violence in Europe, could there be a link with the way they've gone about integrating migrants over the last 50-odd years?
That's in no way to condone any of the horrific violence that's occurred, but more to try to understand the situation to prevent it from happening here.
I get the impression that most of the european countries have allowed many migrants into their borders over the last few/several decades - Great, but have then essentially segregated them.
So their "multiculturalism" is not really multicultural at all.
Just pockets of ethnic groups, like the ghettos of the early 20th century. France and Germany seem to be good examples of this - when was the last time you saw someone who was not a "classic" caucasian Frenchman/woman on French TV as a speaker or presenter or representative (of ~ anything). It makes me think maybe those migrants have been somewhat isolated from a "regular" participation in the society around them. Hence they may feel like second class citizens &/or have no "stake" in the French society. I'm sure they can work, get social welfare, etc; but they don't feel like their the same as, say, a 10th generation Frenchman. 
It's a scenario that's been a prime driving force for social unrest through the centuries - a section of the community that feels like they have no stake in the community or are treated as 2nd class citizens, so why should they care for or respect the tenets of that community.
It's ironic that, if this is a reasonably accurate assessment of contemporary France, that there's a certain similarity to the conditions that precipitated the French Revolution.

To this, i'd point out that Australia by & large, has a much much more successful multicultural policy/society - within 1/2 to 1 generation, most migrants have integrated fairly well into our communities. They have, or can acquire, an equal stake in society and generally seem to feel much more part of us, and identify as Australian. We still have significant issues of racism to deal with (there's always room for improvement!); but that's gradually being addressed, and i believe the majority of Australians wouldn't see migrants as being inferior, nor significantly discriminate against them. Our history has certainly not been perfect when it comes to migrants, but generally it's turned out well.
To that, i'd add that unfortunately PH represents the opposite of these sentiments - the ignorant xenophobia directly encourages and magnifies intolerance and segregation. What better way to create a feeling of isolation and segregation than to question someone's legitimacy within that society and make them fear for their safety? And to do it in such a blind and aggressive manner!
Pauline is a very scary woman. And blind ignorance is a very powerful tool. Many of the people she's targeting have recent memories of persecution. Among all the emotions i feel when i hear her, one of the main ones is empathy for the "Asians" and Muslims who must feel a shiver of fear whenever she speaks. And i honestly fear what she may do to our society - one of the few *successful* multicultural societies in the world, that's succeeded due to respect, tolerance, and understanding. 
While i think there may be some benefit in addressing some of the many issues this debate will raise, i also believe it's extremely important for *all* non-xenophobic Australians to stand up and speak out against this ignorant intolerance.
Make it clear that the vast majority of us actually do uphold the ideals of fairness, equality, tolerance, decency and respect.



wow, that was a bit longer than i intended h34r:


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## madpierre06 (20/7/16)

Without going too much into previously expressed thoughts, the one thing that stands out here is that we do have young australian born or young arrivals who are of the muslim ideology who are being heavily influenced by their local leaders to undertake terror actions either here in Australia or in the earlier days of this situation go over to Iraq and Syria.


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## Dave70 (20/7/16)

technobabble66 said:


> And that's the "beauty" of the latest iteration of terrorism - it's now evolved into a nebulous psychopathic cause that simply provides a focused outlet or excuse for enraged psychopaths to explode into violence. No link is required - just go out and do something in our name. If it wasn't such an abomination to humanity there's a certain brilliance in it's psychology. It taps straight into any level of discontent, without any form of organisation required.
> 
> With regards to the escalation of terrorist violence in Europe, could there be a link with the way they've gone about integrating migrants over the last 50-odd years?
> That's in no way to condone any of the horrific violence that's occurred, but more to try to understand the situation to prevent it from happening here.
> ...



When you have a contingent of immigrants, some with strong influence among their community who belligerently reject the values and culture of their host country / new home, you're always going to run into strife, writ large. 
Just ask Sweden.

I'm sure most Asians don't give an actual **** what she says. Some of the most Stralian people I know are Asians.. But lets not go confusing ideas (religion) and race, something Hanson and most of the media are a seemingly incapable of doing.
I'd feel far more a shiver as a muslim every time another murder is committed in its name. Much the same as the thoroughly decent catholic priest must feel every time one of his peers is shuffles into the dock to face child rape allegations I imagine.


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## technobabble66 (20/7/16)

^^
Agree that a few bad ones could greatly influence a group if there's nothing positive done or said to counter that influence. Merely locking them up etc won't cut it. Providing evidence that this is a good society would make it much harder for those malevolent belligerents to gain traction.

Disagree. Over half my friends would be asian in origin, almost all are Australian citizens. All of them care VERY much what she and others like her say. They all fear what she has and continues to invoke. They all appreciate she represents a tiny, ignorant, xenophobic percentage of the community, but fear what influence she may provide. I know a few of them experienced a real escalation in racist comments, etc when she first appeared in the media and received extensive coverage - and that was at a time when she was largely seen as a joke. She might be talking mainly about muslims now, but i think the other minority groups are watching very closely how Australia responds to her, and what level of xenophobia is generated.

And i'm not sure there's a benefit going too far down the path of debating which is more scary: xenophobes or the few in your "group" that commit atrocities. They're both the same level of crazy, and both provide fuel for the other, and both create fear and distrust in the wider community. Everyone loses out from either of the crazies gaining traction.
(though i appreciate it's worth noting it's not all one side, if that's all your intention was  )


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## Liam_snorkel (20/7/16)

should be interesting when her doco comes out - basically a whinge piece about Abbott & Howard getting her locked up for electoral fraud. A good proportion of her primary vote came from conservative Abbott supporters who were disaffected by the change of leadership. Will they swing back to LNP or become rusted-on ON voters once it's clear to them that Abbott is a vindictive ****? (RE also his pursuit & destruction of Slipper - don't think for a second that Ashby was the brains behind it).


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## Mikedub (20/7/16)

I thought this was her doco 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4tZRZSGxcE


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## arctic78 (20/7/16)

I may be totally wrong here but I have to say from what I have seen and experienced , I stress my experience , I have found that there are many different cultures in Australia that have assimilate well to our ways. Not saying it has been easy or without some racism along the way but they have assimilated and managed to keep there identity and customs along the way but also embraced our culture and change it for the better .
Australians along the way have learned to love and respect theses people and admire what they have to offer to our culture.
In a perfect world this would happen without all the difficulties , racism etc. , but that for now unfortunately is not what happens.
I myself look at what all the immigrants , Italian , Greek , checs etc. , after WW2 contributed to Australia and they by no means had it easy in terms of racism but now I believe they are seen as a important part of our society.
I believe Our true owners of this country still have it much harder than anyone here , So called Australian or otherwise.

PH is just WRONG but everyone is entitled to an opinion and obviously there are a lot more like here.
I just wish this was not the case but to stop them from having a voice is wrong also. We can only hope to educate them and let them see for themselves that what they believe for now is not helpful to our society or the whole terrorism problem that is happening.

Like I said I may be totally wrong in my observation but it is my observation and in Australia we are all entitled to have an opinion.


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## Dave70 (20/7/16)

technobabble66 said:


> ^^
> Agree that a few bad ones could greatly influence a group if there's nothing positive done or said to counter that influence. Merely locking them up etc won't cut it. Providing evidence that this is a good society would make it much harder for those malevolent belligerents to gain traction.
> 
> Disagree. Over half my friends would be asian in origin, almost all are Australian citizens. All of them care VERY much what she and others like her say. They all fear what she has and continues to invoke. They all appreciate she represents a tiny, ignorant, xenophobic percentage of the community, but fear what influence she may provide. I know a few of them experienced a real escalation in racist comments, etc when she first appeared in the media and received extensive coverage - and that was at a time when she was largely seen as a joke. She might be talking mainly about muslims now, but i think the other minority groups are watching very closely how Australia responds to her, and what level of xenophobia is generated.
> ...




Xenophobes and religious fanatics basically two sides of the same ignorant, scary coin anyway.


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## Dave70 (20/7/16)

arctic78 said:


> I may be totally wrong here but I have to say from what I have seen and experienced , I stress my experience , I have found that there are many different cultures in Australia that have assimilate well to our ways. Not saying it has been easy or without some racism along the way but they have assimilated and managed to keep there identity and customs along the way but also embraced our culture and change it for the better .
> Australians along the way have learned to love and respect theses people and admire what they have to offer to our culture.
> In a perfect world this would happen without all the difficulties , racism etc. , but that for now unfortunately is not what happens.
> I myself look at what all the immigrants , Italian , Greek , checs etc. , after WW2 contributed to Australia and they by no means had it easy in terms of racism but now I believe they are seen as a important part of our society.
> ...


I wish the world was like Food Safari..


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## Liam_snorkel (20/7/16)

and like Maeve, I've never met an ethnic dish that didn't make me go 'mmmmmmmmmmm'


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> I wish the world was like Food Safari..



Mmmmmm...Meave.... :icon_drool2:


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## madpierre06 (20/7/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> and like Maeve, I've never met an ethnic dish that didn't make me go 'mmmmmmmmmmm'


Juanita was her name...Colombian girl.


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## wide eyed and legless (20/7/16)

arctic78 said:


> Like I said I may be totally wrong in my observation but it is my observation and in Australia we are all entitled to have an opinion.


Then you will upset the allodoxaphobics.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Then you will upset the allodoxaphobics.


Is that an opinion ?


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## arctic78 (20/7/16)

Maybe just different


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## nosco (20/7/16)

Apart from her personaly, the thing i hate most about PH is that she is making a fortune from tax payers and from the media. I think thats a strong motivator in her political career.


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## LAGERFRENZY (21/7/16)

She really is as thick as pig shit. Her minders starting from Michael Oldfield (ex Abbot staffer) and James Ashby (ex Slipper's office) do her heavy lifting. Left to her own devices she would be struggling to numerate her IQ.


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

nosco said:


> Apart from her personaly, the thing i hate most about PH is that she is making a fortune from tax payers and from the media. I think thats a strong motivator in her political career.


her and every other politician


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

Just goes to show that one doesn't need a university degree or a union rep to be onto a good earner, must say that I am totally against PH wanting to make property more affordable, what about the people who have invested in property to support them in their old age.


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## SBOB (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> what about the people who have invested in property to support them in their old age.


at the expense of every future generation ever affording property due to the ever increasing rate of property price inflation? 

and is never going to drop the floor out of property prices, but why we continue to think being able to offset yearly investment losses against personal income gains is a good idea..
Tax deductions should be limited to the source of income they come from seems like a pretty common sense idea for tax reform. You make a loss on your investment property due to it being cash flow negative, no worries.. carry those losses forward to future years in your tax claims and offset them against gains in that same property in the future.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Just goes to show that one doesn't need a university degree or a union rep to be onto a good earner, must say that I am totally against PH wanting to make property more affordable, what about the people who have invested in property to support them in their old age.





SBOB said:


> at the expense of every future generation ever affording property due to the ever increasing rate of property price inflation?
> 
> and is never going to drop the floor out of property prices, but why we continue to think being able to offset yearly investment losses against personal income gains is a good idea..
> Tax deductions should be limited to the source of income they come from seems like a pretty common sense idea for tax reform. You make a loss on your investment property due to it being cash flow negative, no worries.. carry those losses forward to future years in your tax claims and offset them against gains in that same property in the future.


and the fairest way to bring this in is to make the changes apply to new loans, and allow existing arrangements to remain. That way no individual loses out.

The whole thing is a scam and I'm amazed it's been allowed to go on for so long. If house prices rise faster (proportionally) than the median household income, the only net result is economic stratification (widening the class gap). Not a bad deal for those already on the top of the heap, but shithouse for the nation as a whole. At the end of the day purchasing property is unproductive investment, it does nothing to warrant a return.

For the record I have an investment property.. not some pinko student anarcho-socialist


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

I can't understand why everyone isn't doing something to make sure there future retirement is financed, the government has already warned that the government age pension is not going to be around when most of us retire.
Maybe it isn't the Chinese buying all the houses, it could be Aussie investors protecting their future h34r: 
Though in retrospect all the houses being sold around me do have Chinese looking people moving into them.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

Not everyone earns enough to be able to purchase property, that's the point.


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

Well somebody has to rent the investment properties, otherwise no one would invest in them.Catch 22


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## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

they have no real choice. That's called wealth disparity.


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

And it will always be there, as it has throughout history.


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## madpierre06 (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> must say that I am totally against PH wanting to make property more affordable, what about the people who have invested in property to support them in their old age.


And I thought thios was just some 'A' Grade level trolling. Yeah, **** the poor bastards sitting on the bottom of the shit pile who want to improve their circumstances. But then where would the investors find some cheap slave labour who will take the bowls of gruel doled out to them for their 18 hour day down mines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo


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## SBOB (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> And it will always be there, as it has throughout history.


so lets work hard to increase that wealth disparity in the name of history...right...


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## SBOB (21/7/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> and the fairest way to bring this in is to make the changes apply to new loans, and allow existing arrangements to remain. That way no individual loses out.


exactly..retroactive tax changes are way too disruptive, but at no point does someone buying an existing property and being able to offset tax losses add anything to the countries economy..and anyone who already has one can sit on whatever ridiculous growth they have already realised

Tax write offs on new developments sure, because you're essentially offsetting some 'growth' in the building sector with some tax offsets elsewhere, makes some form of economic sense.


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

" Make the rich richer and the poor poorer"..WEAL 2106


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## klangers (21/7/16)

Not to say work against disparity, but don't think it hurts to be realistic.

Take this example. On average, every person in a 1st world/developed country has (roughly, for argument's sake) 300 kg of copper associated with them. This is copper not necessarily in one's possessions, but also in the infrastructure etc that they use but don't own. 

There is not enough accessible copper on Earth for every person on Earth to have the same standard of living that we do. We either keep the status quo or of wealth disparity or work really frigging hard to find a material that's like copper but is cheaper and plentiful.

I don't see many people worrying about this; far easier to ignore and give $5 to charity to clear one's conscience


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

SBOB said:


> so lets work hard to increase that wealth disparity in the name of history...right...


Wrong there will always be those who will achieve and those who won't nothing can change that.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

Perpetuating income disparity has little to do with achievement.


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

The more one achieves the higher the reward.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

Nobody is disputing that.

Gaining money from increasing house prices isn't an achievement, it's a transfer of wealth.


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The more one achieves the higher the reward.


Yes, but unlike your ( elitist ) self this does not always work.

I know plenty of people who work hard to achieve and still end up with **** all

I know we all cant be is rich. elitist and self made as WEAL but if we keep on the track of feed the rich and **** the poor then the poor will eventually turn on the rich, and the rich will be fucked

As marry Antoinette would have said " Let them eat caviar and drink Grange "


----------



## Dave70 (21/7/16)

Lets first define what it means to be poor in a first world country like Australia.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> Lets first define what it means to be poor in a first world country like Australia.


Not being able to get that 3rd investment property for your 12 month old


----------



## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)




----------



## Dave70 (21/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Not being able to get that 3rd investment property for your 12 month old


You channeled my sarcasm to a tee.


----------



## goomboogo (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I can't understand why everyone isn't doing something to make sure there future retirement is financed, the government has already warned that the government age pension is not going to be around when most of us retire.


Borrowing large sums of money to fund residential property purchases in order to future-proof one's retirement is a very risky approach. The fact that a tax regime encourages people to do so is irresponsible. It's all rosy until it isn't. Ballooning levels of household debt and the ever-increasing size of the house price to wages ratio is a potential precursor to collapse. We've already seen significant rates of foreclosure in towns where people leveraged themselves to the hilt to take advantage of rental opportunities in mining towns. What if the situation arises in Sydney and Melbourne where the rents required to cover mortgages on investment properties are higher than people can afford on their slow growth wages?

If you believe the rhetoric that the pension will disappear in the not too distant future, or anywhere in the future for that matter, I have a brand new bridge to sell to you.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Nobody is disputing that.
> 
> Gaining money from increasing house prices isn't an achievement, it's a transfer of wealth.


And here I was thinking that transfer of wealth was when the government takes the taxes from the hard earned income of the taxpayer and gives it to someone who won't work.

goomboogo, with Melbourne population to rise to 8 million I doubt that the housing market will be falling significantly any time soon.
The age of government pension being finished is Scott Morrisons words not mine, obviously the government will be giving out food stamps or some such buffer.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> And here I was thinking that transfer of wealth was when the government takes the taxes from the hard earned income of the taxpayer and gives it to large corporations in the form of subsidies, rebates and tax breaks..


----------



## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> > And here I was thinking that transfer of wealth was when the government takes the taxes from the hard earned income of the taxpayer and gives it to large corporations in the form of subsidies, rebates and tax breaks..


It is that too


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I doubt that the housing market will be falling significantly any time soon.


But what happens when it does...and it will...

What happens when all of a sudden the renters cant afford to rent because the owners need to cover the payments, so they move to where they can, Without renters your investment property is worth jack shit


----------



## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

Yep nothing lasts forever, keep your finger on the pulse, 'The first rule is not to lose the second rule is don't forget the first rule'


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

But you cant win forever


----------



## Dave70 (21/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But what happens when it does...and it will...
> 
> What happens when all of a sudden the renters cant afford to rent because the owners need to cover the payments, so they move to where they can, *Without renters your investment property is worth jack shit*


Easy. Use the equity to buy another property where the renters are abundant and cashed up.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

Equity & Debt... like poking a finger into a bum


----------



## booargy (21/7/16)

If you have talk about it you don't really have it, some people are full of shit.


----------



## Dave70 (21/7/16)

booargy said:


> If you have talk about it you don't really have it, some people are full of shit.


Equity or fingers?


----------



## wide eyed and legless (21/7/16)

I wish I had half as much as stu thinks I have.


----------



## MastersBrewery (21/7/16)

Don't worry 2 divorces will quickly sort the disparity.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I wish I had half as much as stu thinks I have.


Shit or Fingers ?


----------



## WarmerBeer (21/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> ... like poking a finger into a bum


And wouldn't _he_ have a lot to say on this debate. If he were still around.


----------



## Dave70 (21/7/16)

WarmerBeer said:


> And wouldn't _he_ have a lot to say on this debate. If he were still around.


Briefly. Before the thread got locked.


----------



## WarmerBeer (21/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> Briefly. Before the thread got locked.


Pour out a 40 for my fallen homies.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

80/-


----------



## spog (21/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But you cant win forever


Years ago I subbied for a developer who was building flash houses on spec, I asked him " how do you do it what's the trick ? " 
His reply was " use the banks money those arseholes are speculators like me ".
He's been arse up a few times but bounced back for another go,still got all his assets but at a price to others.......
It's the " others " who pay.
Hmm, a price on winning can be very costly indeed.


----------



## Dave70 (21/7/16)

WarmerBeer said:


> Pour out a 40 for my fallen homies.





Ducatiboy stu said:


> 80/-



If you blokes would like some more beer to tip out there are five remaining Storm Pale Ales in my fridge you're welcome to. Unless I develop ageusia, I have no use for them.


----------



## Maheel (21/7/16)

lol'z at the change in this thread

makes me laugh all the hate about investment houses buyers.

we should be thanking them......

they provide the public housing that the GOV has sold off over the years and the GOV dont ever want to get back involved in public housing to expensive for them
without investors there would be more living on the streets as there would be a lot less houses built.

most investment house buyers make losses even after tax returns for many years and they fork out their money for that "privilege"
often paying water bills and repairs for their tennant and sometimes having to deal with F%$^tards who decides they don't need to pay rent...

having a rental is not always easy street.

most of the issue is that there is a housing shortage not the investors.


----------



## niftinev (21/7/16)

what happened to go pauline go

thread needs a retitle

and i can tell you from my personal experience there is more ******* arsehole renters than good tenants

yep they don't give a **** about your property


----------



## manticle (21/7/16)

I rent and I seem to care more for the places I call home than most of the owners.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

There's still plenty of public housing, I'm working on a few projects atm. Knocking over shitboxes and replacing them with multiple duplex/triplex on the same lot. All paid for by the gubberment


----------



## Liam_snorkel (21/7/16)

Can confirm that shitcunt tenants exist. Nice ones do too.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> If you blokes would like some more beer to tip out there are five remaining Storm Pale Ales in my fridge you're welcome to. Unless I develop ageusia, I have no use for them.


Yes, but the recruiting agency told me that the pay was Awesome


----------



## Maheel (21/7/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> . Nice ones do too.


they sure do and IMO most people just want to live there lives "normal" just some really surprise me with their actions....

As for Pauline yes a loon, but i give her big cred for standing up and doing something she has to believe in somewhat to run as a pollie
she seems less apathetic than a lot of us here in Oz
when i voted I put an 1 in the one i think should have the vote then just put 2,3,4,5,6 in the next 5 boxes as i could not give a shit in the end
could have been 1Nation or the sexy pirate party i don't really know


----------



## Zorco (22/7/16)

Maheel said:


> lol'z at the change in this thread
> 
> makes me laugh all the hate about investment houses buyers.
> 
> ...


Possible solution.

The WEAL railroad thread.


http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/91639-The-WEAL-railroad

We should find Ducatiboy stu there sometimes


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> We should find Ducatiboy stu there sometimes


You bet your sweet man buns and beard oil I will be there


----------



## Dave70 (22/7/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> There's still plenty of public housing, I'm working on a few projects atm. Knocking over shitboxes and replacing them with multiple duplex/triplex on the same lot. All paid for by the gubberment


Plenty of that out my way, especially now the North West Rail link is forging ahead. Only its paid for by developers. And the houses are mostly privately owned. Generally by two or more neighbors who combined the sale to form one big block suitable for freshly re zoned three story housing. 
Here's one of the happy owner now (artists impression).


----------



## Liam_snorkel (22/7/16)

oh yeah plenty of that here too. There's a lot of >600m2 blocks within 10km of brisbane CBD. Goodbye backyard mango trees!


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (22/7/16)

No >600m2 blocks in mum's old street - the whole cul de sac approved for 5 storey units. Gooodbye Cannon Hill.


----------



## Dave70 (22/7/16)

The best part is they're asking upward of $400K for some 58 square (minimum size allowable - In Sydney area anyway) units.
Thats roughly two 40" shipping containers.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/16)

You can buy a lot of shipping containers for $400k


----------



## Dave70 (22/7/16)

Absolutely. They're not just good for subterranean drug labs. 
How cool is this? Be like living inside a Transformer.


----------



## technobabble66 (22/7/16)

Trump is just accepting the formal nomination for the Presidency.

Thank God someone of intelligence, ability and integrity is going to be the President!!


EDIT: Apologies, should've posted this into the Rant thread. Or the Train thread h34r:


----------



## yankinoz (22/7/16)

Yob said:


> watching this now and ye gods.. she gives me the shits something fierce...


Love manifests in strange ways.


----------



## droid (22/7/16)

"...somethin' fierce" haha, haven't heard that one in a while


----------



## wide eyed and legless (23/7/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Trump is just accepting the formal nomination for the Presidency.
> 
> Thank God someone of intelligence, ability and integrity is going to be the President!!
> 
> ...


Well at least he claims he is going to fix the deficit, though there are some would be, if they could be, treasurers on here who believe the bigger the deficit the better.(train thread?)


----------



## manticle (23/7/16)

If you can defend trump you can defend anyone.


----------



## spog (23/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> The best part is they're asking upward of $400K for some 58 square (minimum size allowable - In Sydney area anyway) units.
> Thats roughly two 40" shipping containers.


400k for 58 square ! Fark me!
I'm in construction and prices horrify me they really do,ffs a young couple starting out are well and truely behind the 8 ball.
Over priced rent can be met (struggle) but saving for a deposit,while renting to hopefully own a patch and raise a family....
The over priced values on land,houses etc truely do make my blood boil,driven by realestate agents,supply and demand ( shot myself in the foot ).
**** me, here in Port Lincoln the SELL is claimed to be the Mediterranean climate....piss my self laughing when I hear that bullshit claim.
.....oops wrong thread.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (23/7/16)

manticle said:


> If you can defend trump you can defend anyone.


Trump is just a fearmonger, and it works, I am convinced Pauline is of the same mould except she is there just for the money, she knows what works and this time she has cast a wider net, pretending to care about house prices, pretending to care about pensioners, and her old favourite of 'Beware the immigrants'. Can't beat being a bit to the right and left.


----------



## goomboogo (23/7/16)

Donald Trump is on a par with Scott Morrison when it comes to talking big on matters he knows nothing about.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/16)

Well there is always Kelly O'Dwyer


----------



## TheWiggman (23/7/16)

And what say you about her Stu?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/16)

Well I dont go much on here


----------



## goomboogo (23/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Well I dont go much on here


You're on here all the time.


----------



## SBOB (23/7/16)

TheWiggman said:


> And what say you about her Stu?


she pretty much speaks for herself.... well, her and the cafe owner with a $6000 toaster


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/16)

goomboogo said:


> You're on here all the time.


Only on days that end in the letter Y


----------



## Dave70 (25/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Well at least he claims he is going to fix the deficit, though there are some would be, if they could be, treasurers on here who believe the bigger the deficit the better.(train thread?)


Nice fix.
Even the Greeks didn't try that on. 

http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/05/08/media-slam-trump-s-insane-plan-default-us-debt/210297


----------



## technobabble66 (25/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Well at least he claims he is going to fix the deficit, though there are some would be, if they could be, treasurers on here who believe the bigger the deficit the better.(train thread?)


True. But is there a chance you're embracing a guy just because he's willing to lie to you with a straight face? Maybe the others simply struggle to lie so blatantly, hence they're not claiming to "fix" the debt. 
Not saying that irresponsible spending that blows the debt out further is a good thing. But it really seems like trump is just straight out lying about almost all of his ideas/policies. 
Let's face it, he's not going to "fix" the debt. He's not going to build a wall across the Mexican border. He's not going to stop ISIS. He's not going to stop terrorism. He's not going to make America safer. 
None of that is necessarily because he's incompetent, though there's a good chance of that too. It's because these are extremely difficult and complex problems. Even if the best policies to tackle these problems were employed. They'll take many years to succeed. 
Hence, it's obvious he's just simply lying - on all of these major areas he's winning popularity. It's really blatant. But everyone from the right seems to just lapping it up. 
It's absurd!


----------



## wide eyed and legless (25/7/16)

I'm not embracing Trump, I find everything he says and his expressions mildly amusing, how many US Presidential candidates have said they are going to fix the deficit and when they leave office the debt is always bigger than it was when they went in.
Reagan was a classic with his, 'we can't borrow ourselves rich' he swore he was going to fix the deficit and it ended up way higher.


----------



## bruiserbbq (26/7/16)

Interesting discussion going on here guys.....but I think there is a bigger picture for the reasons the likes of Pauline and Trump are grandstanding!

Worth a read......https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/

And worth a listen....

Common Sense 307 – Revenge of the Gangrenous Finger
http://www.dancarlin.com/common-sense-home-landing-page/

Cheers Mark


----------



## wide eyed and legless (26/7/16)

Seems to me its more to do with peoples fear of immigrants, that's why the right wing movement are gaining ground in France, Italy, Holland and Germany,as with Pauline Hanson. The Labor Party in the UK is in tatters, and Trump puts the fear into as many Americans who will listen to him. Every terrorist attack whether it be by terrorists or not, give the right wing more power.


----------



## Dave70 (26/7/16)

bruiserbbq said:


> Interesting discussion going on here guys.....but I think there is a bigger picture for the reasons the likes of Pauline and Trump are grandstanding!
> 
> Worth a read......https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/
> 
> ...


You should look up a bit of Glen Greewalds form, in particular the fallacious, slanderous diatribes leveled at the likes of Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz. Not to mention his endorsement of cohort Murtaza Husains reference to Nawaz as Harris's 'lap dog', 'porch monkey' and a 'native informant' after the two collaborated on the book - Islam and the future of tolerance. 
Greenwald is a regressive leftest homosexual Jew who sympathizes with islamic jihadists. I think he is slightly confused to say the least. 

I takes a certain _kind_ of arsehole to get his own Urban Dictionary page.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=greenwalding


Dan Carlin on the other hand is always worth a listen. 
Unlike Greenwald or Trump.


----------



## bruiserbbq (26/7/16)

Agree with you about Greenwald Dave70......don't like a lot of what he has to say....but on this occasion he has hit the mark.

Cheers Mark


----------



## madpierre06 (29/7/16)

As long as dividends and productivity are up. eh. That's all that matters. Wonder how many families lost their houses for the investors to snap up.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32157604/caterpillar-driverless-trucks-pay-off-for-fmg/#page1


----------



## Liam_snorkel (29/7/16)

Classic Australia. The worlds most convivial quarry


----------



## Zorco (29/7/16)

Anyone driving anything for money has had enough warning

But one
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (29/7/16)

Is that an Android narrating Mr Andersonnnnnnnnnnn?


----------



## Liam_snorkel (29/7/16)

Hah. Cops absolutely love doing the Hugo voice "Mr Anderson" to me


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (29/7/16)

Could have been a worse voice - imagine a machine channeling a fart in a teacup voice like Campbell Newmannnnnnnnnnnn


----------



## wide eyed and legless (30/7/16)

I would vote cable ties a better invention than a driver-less vehicle, and there is still someone behind a computer operating the vehicle.


----------



## Florian (30/7/16)

More like one person behind a computer operating 47 vehicles.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (30/7/16)

Starting to doubt the efficiency of having so many Mining Magnates? Seize assets, redistribute some wealth, and feed a few greyhounds to boot.


----------



## malt and barley blues (30/7/16)

What about all those garbos we used to have on our streets, wonder what are they doing now.


----------



## SBOB (30/7/16)

madpierre06 said:


> As long as dividends and productivity are up. eh. That's all that matters. Wonder how many families lost their houses for the investors to snap up.
> 
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32157604/caterpillar-driverless-trucks-pay-off-for-fmg/#page1


having seen how much some drivers get paid in mining to drive a big tonka truck from one end of a pit to the other, automating that does make sense for both a safety and efficiency sense..

though think of how many engineers gained work.. swings and roundabouts


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

malt & barley blues said:


> What about all those garbos we used to have on our streets, wonder what are they doing now.


Driving Trains and earning $100k


----------



## SBOB (31/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Driving Trains and earning $100k


Pretty sure some train drivers earn more than that


----------



## goomboogo (31/7/16)

SBOB said:


> Pretty sure some train drivers earn more than that


That must be part time. Some people on this board think train drivers earn a lot more than that and only work 3 hours per day. They read it on the internet so it must be true.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

I actually know a train driver.....he doesnt earn $100k


----------



## wide eyed and legless (31/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Driving Trains and earning $100k


A train driver worth his salt wouldn't get out of bed for that pittance, when they have their other sidelines to run. But their days are also numbered with the driverless trains now coming to the fore.
Also no matter how far ahead progress takes us and jobs disappear the unemployment never seems to change much.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> A train driver worth his salt wouldn't get out of bed for that pittance, when they have their other sidelines to run.


What the **** are you on WEAL

God you can speak some utter bullshit at times


----------



## Zorco (31/7/16)

Next train leaving the to the WEAL railroad..... All aboard!


----------



## wide eyed and legless (31/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What the **** are you on WEAL
> 
> God you can speak some utter bullshit at times


Sodium pentothol.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Sodium pentothol.


Oh please.....

Give me strength


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Next train leaving the to the WEAL railroad..... All aboard!


No one could afford the ticktes


----------



## SBOB (31/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I actually know a train driver.....he doesnt earn $100k


i know one to.. and he earns more than that... 
Works in a coal terminal and spends a large portion of the time either travelling 5km/hr and offloading coal or stopped waiting for the train in front to do something


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

SBOB said:


> i know one to.. and he earns more than that...
> Works in a coal terminal and spends a large portion of the time either travelling 5km/hr and offloading coal or stopped waiting for the train in front to do something


Yes, there are some who do the mines that earn good money, but all of them, only a few...very few


----------



## madpierre06 (31/7/16)

SBOB said:


> having seen how much some drivers get paid in mining to drive a big tonka truck from one end of a pit to the other, automating that does make sense for both a safety and efficiency sense..
> 
> though think of how many engineers gained work.. swings and roundabouts


Seems to be more get thrown off the swings ans roundabouts than get on though.



wide eyed and legless said:


> Also no matter how far ahead progress takes us and jobs disappear the unemployment never seems to change much.


Seriously, is this trolling or what? The definition of unemplyed does change though so as to keep the figures relatively steady.


The ABS uses internationally agreed standards in defining unemployment and the key indicators have been measured in a consistent way since 1966.
To be classified as unemployed a person needs to meet the following three criteria:
- not working more than one hour in the reference week;
- actively looking for work in previous four weeks; and
- be available to start work in the reference week.

[*]The ABS produces a range of measures, in addition to the unemployment rate, to help users understand the extent of underutilised labour supply, such as underemployment.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

madpierre06 said:


> Seriously, is this trolling or what?


No...Its just WEAL's illusion of .....welI........I dont really know...

He is probably still coming to terms with Tony Abott no longer being the PM


----------



## wide eyed and legless (31/7/16)

madpierre06 said:


> Seems to be more get thrown off the swings ans roundabouts than get on though.
> 
> 
> Seriously, is this trolling or what? The definition of unemplyed does change though so as to keep the figures relatively steady.
> ...


In this country we have seen lots of jobs disappear, manufacturing is at its lowest levels, jobs which people have taken for granted have gone, nothing will last forever, 5000 went from Qantas there has been 1000's lost to companies who have pulled up stumps and gone overseas, but other opportunities open up, keeping unemployment relatively low for a world in economic downturn.
It doesn't help by saying it isn't fair if you are finding it hard to get a job, the only ones I will feel sorry for are those in Syria, Iraq Lebanon and a lot of the North African nations who say life isn't fair.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

Yes, but there are now heaps more hipster barista's around now


----------



## wide eyed and legless (31/7/16)

I was going to go into the legal profession but I couldn't be bothered.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

You would be perfectly suited to it


----------



## madpierre06 (31/7/16)

*Without work*

This criterion is used to distinguish between those who have work and those who do not. The ABS counts everyone who works for at least one hour in the reference week as employed. *While a one hour cut-off point could be argued to be insufficient to sustain a family or person financially,* there are several reasons for including everyone who works at least one hour a week as employed.

From an economic perspective, any time in paid work, no matter how small, contributes to economic production and is therefore included in the national accounts. Fundamentally, labour force statistics are economic indicators and need to be coherent with other economic measures.

Socially, it is recognised that employment is associated with improved psychological and social well-being. It is therefore important to distinguish between those who have any work (even if a small number of hours) and those who do not.

By applying the one hour criterion, the ABS is measuring unemployment in an internationally consistent manner, which enables governments and policy makers to draw on international comparisons.

If the one hour criterion was not used it is not clear what cut-off should apply. Some people who work for relatively few hours each week do not necessarily want to work more hours.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (31/7/16)

Work, there are those who can't work, those who won't work,those who would like to work but are just not intelligent enough to hold down a job where even just some degree of intelligence is needed, (not their fault), those who look for work when there is nothing around which suit their particular skill, move to another field where jobs are abundant would be the advice.
Me I would get an income by fair means or foul, even if I had to get a ute and a lawnmower, I would cut the prices of other's to provide for my family, the last thing I would do is complain about how things should be because they are not what I think they should be, that won't change anything.


----------



## manticle (31/7/16)

Everything is so black and white for you isn't it mate?


----------



## madpierre06 (31/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Work, there are those who can't work, those who won't work,those who would like to work but are just not intelligent enough to hold down a job where even just some degree of intelligence is needed, (not their fault), those who look for work when there is nothing around which suit their particular skill, move to another field where jobs are abundant would be the advice.
> Me I would get an income by fair means or foul, even if I had to get a ute and a lawnmower, I would cut the prices of other's to provide for my family, the last thing I would do is complain about how things should be because they are not what I think they should be, that won't change anything.


WEAL, to be honest, I completely respect your single minded drive to work and provide for your family when there are many who don't have that same drive. But we are in community, whether we like it or not...and there has to be consideration for others or else we end with complete anarchy where in the end no one survives. And we have govts now whose only priority is 'the economy' and 'productivity', where if you have found yourself at the bottom of the food chain you are viewed with less importance than the common single cell organism. To disregard these people is utterly selfish, irrespective of whether they want to change their circumstances or not. I'd rather starve than deliberately **** up another blokes business. Because in the end, I will be judged more harshly for what I did to him than what I do for myself.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I would cut the prices of other's to provide for my family, the last thing I would do is complain about how things should be because they are not what I think they should be, that won't change anything.


Nothing like a race to the bottom

If I ever see "WEALS lawn mowing service" I will steer well clear, and advise others to do the same

I prefer someone with ethics


----------



## Liam_snorkel (31/7/16)

Well said madpierre


----------



## goomboogo (31/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Nothing like a race to the bottom
> 
> If I ever see "WEALS lawn mowing service" I will steer well clear, and advise others to do the same
> 
> I prefer someone with ethics


Would you steer clear of his 2 dollar shop?


----------



## Zorco (31/7/16)

Seriously, this is what the other thread is for


----------



## goomboogo (31/7/16)

We're just a pinko, commie rabble.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (31/7/16)

Every genius who starts a mowing business by undercutting all comers fittingly just gets the customers that the rest of us no longer want - big yards, bad payers or just plain rude people. Sounds like Karma.


----------



## goomboogo (31/7/16)

No one ever suggested that WEAL knew a single thing about economics.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

or lawnmowing


----------



## madpierre06 (31/7/16)

goomboogo said:


> Would you steer clear of his 2 dollar shop?


Hey, my missus traded in one of the brothers who eventually founded Crazy Clark's for me...she still lives in hope that one day...... :lol: :beerbang:


----------



## wide eyed and legless (1/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Nothing like a race to the bottom
> 
> If I ever see "WEALS lawn mowing service" I will steer well clear, and advise others to do the same
> 
> I prefer someone with ethics


Ethics doesn't come into it morals yes ethics no, when you marry, have children then you have a moral obligation to provide for your family, how many men do you see get divorced and immediately give up work go on the dole, work the black or both just so they can get out of the moral obligation of providing for their wife and kids.
Lawn mowing was just used as an example, being as that is where the phrase 'Turf wars' come from,  the lawn mower businesses would be undercutting each other or offering an extra incentive to get the business, its called competition. Happens in every business, no avoiding it. I could have chose window cleaners, that is something of a rarity and I hate cleaning the windows once a month I would gladly pay someone to come around and do that, but my wife wouldn't go for the, I have a social obligation argument to find a window cleaner to come and clean them while I am fishing 2 or 3 times a week, brewing and wasting my time doing the things I enjoy.
All I am saying is if I was looking for a job, and couldn't get one, I wouldn't be wasting my time blaming investors, governments, unions or whoever else I might feel responsible for me not having a job


----------



## wide eyed and legless (1/8/16)

madpierre06 said:


> Hey, my missus traded in one of the brothers who eventually founded Crazy Clark's for me...she still lives in hope that one day...... :lol: :beerbang:


Mad Pierre's?


----------



## madpierre06 (1/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Mad Pierre's?


Yeah, it's been a fun ride for her, she lost her sense of humour about this one *madpierre a former bad punter. Nobody wins but the bank.


----------



## Dave70 (1/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Sodium pentothol.


Stu will be kicking himself he missed this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiopental

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_Laboratories


----------



## lost at sea (1/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Work, there are those who can't work, those who won't work,those who would like to work but are just not intelligent enough to hold down a job where even just some degree of intelligence is needed, (not their fault), those who look for work when there is nothing around which suit their particular skill, move to another field where jobs are abundant would be the advice.
> Me I would get an income by fair means or foul, *even if I had to get a ute and a lawnmower, I would cut the prices of other's to provide for my family,* the last thing I would do is complain about how things should be because they are not what I think they should be, that won't change anything.



what would you do when they start with driverless lawnmowers?


----------



## madpierre06 (1/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Mad Pierre's?


Pissed thast the edit button has a limited life span.. just saw what you did there, excellent!!! Very bloody funny, I'm not slow, eh.


----------



## Dave70 (1/8/16)

lost at sea said:


> what would you do when they start with driverless lawnmowers?


To late!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmCQkosIa2k


----------



## wide eyed and legless (1/8/16)

madpierre06 said:


> Pissed thast the edit button has a limited life span.. just saw what you did there, excellent!!! Very bloody funny, I'm not slow, eh.


Well you got there in the end. 



lost at sea said:


> what would you do when they start with driverless lawnmowers?


Get one of these.
http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/10428/Giant-Robot-Lays-1000-Bricks-per-Hour.aspx


----------



## Dave70 (1/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Get one of these.
> http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedManufacturing/ArticleID/10428/Giant-Robot-Lays-1000-Bricks-per-Hour.aspx


Yeah thats right, robot this A I that.
One day, that brick laying robot will build mankinds TOMB!!..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDrDUmuUBTo


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (1/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> Stu will be kicking himself he missed this one.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiopental
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_Laboratories


A truth serum from Abbott


----------



## wide eyed and legless (1/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> Yeah thats right, robot this A I that.
> One day, that brick laying robot will build mankinds TOMB!!..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDrDUmuUBTo


Man-kinds tomb is already built, global warming is going to be our demise.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (1/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Man-kinds tomb is already built, Chinese hops are going to be our demise.


FTFY


----------



## Dave70 (2/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Man-kinds tomb is already built, global warming is going to be our demise.



Nonsense. Plants thrive in a greenhouse environment..


----------



## Liam_snorkel (2/8/16)

and jellyfish thrive in more acidic ocean, yum!


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> Nonsense. Plants thrive in a greenhouse environment..


That brings back a few memories,anyone walking through that would is definitely going to need a Tyvek suit.

As for the global warming was reading recently the article about the 3 rd Pole which Chinese climate scientists study, looks pretty grim, although we are heading for disaster and ruination, I wonder if we do slow down the climate change how much longer we will get. Has it ever been mentioned?


----------



## MastersBrewery (2/8/16)

Bets on Trump starting WW III first.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (2/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> although we are heading for disaster and ruination, I wonder if we do slow down the climate change how much longer we will get. Has it ever been mentioned?


until when?

it's not like one day everything will be fine, then then next it all goes tits up.
moreso things like this, in no particular order and on varying time scales:
- changing rainfall patterns, ocean currents, change in usual seasonal variations generally
- ecosystems collapse, some single species thrive & dominate
- food / water shortages (from the above 2 items) in countries & regions which can't afford to adapt
- migration from coastal areas which can't afford to build sea walls
- conflict resulting from the above
- world war! pew pew pew


----------



## Dave70 (2/8/16)

Thanks for the heads up. Better get started on my ark!


----------



## Liam_snorkel (2/8/16)

your great grand children might need it!


----------



## gaijin (2/8/16)

Bit OT, but speaking of ruination and all...

I like the thought that if mankind's half-assed attempt to slow down global warming fails, there is a fallback option, however drastic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_(geoengineering)

It was spoken about in Superfreakanomics - worth a read if anyone gets a chance.


----------



## MastersBrewery (2/8/16)

Actually I was serious about Trump starting WW III geoengineering ain't saving us from nuclear holicost.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (2/8/16)

gaijin said:


> Bit OT, but speaking of ruination and all...
> 
> I like the thought that if mankind's half-assed attempt to slow down global warming fails, there is a fallback option, however drastic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_sulfate_aerosols_(geoengineering)
> 
> It was spoken about in Superfreakanomics - worth a read if anyone gets a chance.


Thats really ******* with mother nature

But then again....cant be worse than we have already made it

Maybe well all just end up dying en mass and our cities turn into giant oil fields....

And the next generation thinks,,,wow,,check out those dinosaurs ...and burn our remains


----------



## Vini2ton (2/8/16)

Are you a policeman WEAL?


----------



## manticle (2/8/16)

No policeman would presume 100k was a median full time salary would they?


----------



## Vini2ton (2/8/16)

I'm sorry I don't mean to be insulting but I have a copper mate who leans as you do. Just wondering. Railroad Dicks?


----------



## manticle (2/8/16)

You talk me or weal?


----------



## MastersBrewery (2/8/16)

Oh well the railway, 100k is for the plebe swinging on the back of the train who opens and closes the doors, occasionally making announcements that are completely inconprehesable. Ask me how I know?!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (2/8/16)

http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/recruitment/the_career/general_duties/working_conditions

(2014 salary rates include 11.5% loading)

Salary-The First 5 years

Rank

Probationary $65,059.00
Level 2 Constable $67,515.00
Level 3 Constable $69,967.00
Level 4 Constable $72,420.00
Level 5 Constable $73,651.00


Without Loading...about $43k 1st year


----------



## Dave70 (3/8/16)

Apparently Queensland coppers were on a far better wicket in the late 80's, according to the Fitzgerald inquiry..


----------



## wobbly (3/8/16)

wrong topic


----------



## pcmfisher (3/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Better get started on my ark!


You might be able to get a cheap second hand one from Ken Ham. It even has air con.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (3/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Are you a policeman WEAL?


Been on the bench for the last 31/2 years was hoping to become a car-park attendant but Daniel Andrews out maneuvered me on that one.


----------



## Vini2ton (3/8/16)

A car-park attendant? Is that a traffic cop on the Monash?


----------



## technobabble66 (4/8/16)

Rant time:
Bill Shorten's response this morning to the question of whether he's concerned about One Nation securing 4 Senate seats in this recent election was to blame the Greens & Turnbull for changing the election regulations.
Are you ******* kidding me?!?
That's the best he could come up with?!
What a ******* douche bag.
Not saying the other pollies are any better, but that is a ******* pathetic stock standard effort of "whatever the issue is, blame the other guys for it"
The only slightly more disappointing thing is that the media pack just stood around like stale bottles of piss and let it slide. Surely one of them could of piped up and said something like " Sorry Bill, but what the **** are you talking about??" or "What the hell does that have to do with the voting in of a bunch of ignorant, intolerant, disrespectful, far right rednecks?"

Brilliant example of mediocre politicians who still don't seem to understand that a large chunk of the population are pretty damn sick of these standard responses of blaming anything negative on the other guys, irrespective of whether it's true, and instead of engaging in any form of intelligent or analytical response.
And a brilliant example of mediocre media.


----------



## idzy (4/8/16)

technobabble66 said:


> The only slightly more disappointing thing is that the media pack just stood around like stale bottles of piss and let it slide. Surely one of them could of piped up and said something like " Sorry Bill, but what the **** are you talking about??" or "What the hell does that have to do with the voting in of a bunch of ignorant, intolerant, disrespectful, far right rednecks?"


I wonder how many of the less than one hour a week vote ON. Dey terk er Jerbs!


----------



## idzy (4/8/16)

All this talk of employment reminds me a of dude on an episode of SBS Insight. Talking about the requirements for a job. This programmer said to this other guy, "At that stage, I didn't have a job, the requirement was, go get a job, any job, just get something..."

I think this is missing in our dialogue and not having desire to get a job is a pretty crappy excuse.

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/273290307757/insight-entitled


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/8/16)

Billy is right about the change to the voting, but he could have also mentioned that neither major party has any talent in it and she has also scored the protest votes and pensioners votes.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (4/8/16)

* the right wing protest vote

I remember reading an article from the gympie paper or some other such rag asking people who they were voting for and why - virtually everyone who said ON was because they were mad about Abbott getting the arse, and a liberal (in the social policy sense) being the leader of the Liberals.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (4/8/16)

At the previous election virtually the same number of voters went for Pigsy Palmer and many of those were small L Libs who hated Abbott. Labour's primary vote seems to be stuck in the 30's and inner city seats going greener all of the time. Things are getting more volatile all of time and the majors really need to lift their game.


----------



## madpierre06 (4/8/16)

Maybe they could just try sticking to working FOr the people who live in this country, and for the actual good of the country....a bit of actual honesty wouldn't go astray either. Yeah, I know, I've been drinking.


----------



## Vini2ton (4/8/16)

It's a reflex now of all sides to just keep bagging each other. Non-stop campaigning, throw enough mud and some of it's bound to stick. The senate is gonna be a freak-show. Roll up! Roll up!


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/8/16)

Well little Billy got my protest vote, I was far from happy, not with the sacking of Abbot, but the appointment of Malcolm, he was hopeless the first time round, and by the time of the election it was obvious he hadn't improved.
The 200 million dollar poser.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (4/8/16)

Final Senate Numbers:
Coalition - 30
Labour - 26
Greens - 9
One Nation - 4
Xenophon - 3
Lib Dem - 1
Hinch - 1
Family First - 1
Lambie - 1

TOTAL 76

39 votes required to pass legislation

I'd say any threat of another DD a very remote one.


----------



## Vini2ton (4/8/16)

Michael Roberts will be amusing. Today at his presser he was asking each journo their name before answering their question. Conspiracies abound and climate-science is corrupted by the world banks. Mulder? Scully? You banana benders throw up some interesting types.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (4/8/16)

Don't you Southerners worry about that!


----------



## Vini2ton (4/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Don't you Southerners worry about that!


Remember when Joh said, "We don't want you you southerners coming up here and shoving it down our throat!" I think it was when they were trying to ban Playboy in Qld.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (4/8/16)

I think his speechwriter pinched the line from a famous Rex Mossop quote when talking about streakers - "I have nothing against genitalia - I just object to having it shoved down my throat!"


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Final Senate Numbers:
> Coalition - 30
> Labour - 26
> Greens - 9
> ...


I think the Coalition is going to find the going very,very tough. They have only just enough seats to form government, and if they have any, even the slightest hickup they are fucked

As for the senate... well Labor will just sit back with the popcorn and enjoy the show. They wont even have to do anything.

If the coalition though it was tough getting legislation thru before, then its going to be 10 times worse now. And its all of there own making


----------



## Maheel (4/8/16)

talking about votes anyone else get a "you did not vote" letter and did vote?

I did a postal a few weeks before the day
last week i got the "you did not vote" letter / bill
sent them back informing them to ask oz post about it.......
day later i get the "sorry we found your vote" letter (well before ozpost would have sorted my response letter)

One N might have got an extra seat if mine had been counted....... jokes


----------



## Vini2ton (4/8/16)

There'll be a royal commission into Australia Post after the "Census Debarcle" and guess what? It'll be privatised. And remember... foreign investment is good.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/8/16)

I can imagine there will be investors falling over each other to buy shares in a company that makes a $200 million a year loss (that's on a good year) :lol:


----------



## Bridges (4/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I can imagine there will be investors falling over each other to buy shares in a company that makes a $200 million a year loss (that's on a good year) :lol:


Don't get started on this crap again. I hope it won't be privatized but they make a bomb on parcel delivery so overall they have only shown a loss in the last financial year. ($222 million) the year before was a $116 million profit. This was their first loss in 30 years. Revenues have been pretty stable at around $6.5 billion for the last couple of years. Yep letters are down but parcels are up.Swings and roundabouts, and last year they spent $190 million retraining and moving staff around ahead of the trend in their deliveries. It seems pretty clear that the muppet running Auspost wants it to look like its performing badly so he could justify increased prices and reduced service in their letter delivery service.


----------



## Maheel (4/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I can imagine there will be investors falling over each other to buy shares in a company that makes a $200 million a year loss (that's on a good year) :lol:


have you heard of Dick Smith Electronics.............

maybe Oz Post have already started writing down / off the cost of all that shit sitting in their shops...... then next year profit looks awesome as COGS's(cost of goods sold) is zero...

pump and dump, pump and dump is the IPO motto for some :blink:


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/8/16)

I was talking to an Auspost driver on Monday arvo at the pub. He comes up every fortnight and does a change over bringing the truck from Sydney then taking the Casino one back then he does other runs.

2 B Doubles choc full go the coast from Sydney just to service the east coast to Casino ( not including Newcastle ) every night,

I didnt ask what they payed him, but judging that he was drinking New wearing tracksuit pants made me think he earnt slightly less than a train driver


----------



## wide eyed and legless (5/8/16)

Bridges said:


> It seems pretty clear that the muppet running Auspost wants it to look like its performing badly so he could justify increased prices and reduced service in their letter delivery service.


I don't think thats the case, they would be independently audited, best thing the government could do is bite the bullet and either scrap the letter posts within Australia or put the prices up on stamps.They do employ a shit load of contractors (non union) and contracts have a use by date, and I suspect the guy stu met in the pub would be a contractor or working for a contractor.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> and I suspect the guy stu met in the pub would be a contractor or working for a contractor.



There you go again... presuming you know all

He was not a contractor but he said a lot of contractors do the shorter regional mail sorting centers.


----------



## Dave70 (5/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I was talking to an Auspost driver on Monday arvo at the pub. He comes up every fortnight and does a change over bringing the truck from Sydney then taking the Casino one back then he does other runs.
> 
> *2 B Doubles choc full *go the coast from Sydney just to service the east coast to Casino ( not including Newcastle ) every night,
> 
> I didnt ask what they payed him, but judging that he was drinking New wearing tracksuit pants made me think he earnt slightly less than a train driver


Was it choc full of same sex marriage plebiscite ballot papers?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/8/16)

Possibly


----------



## wide eyed and legless (5/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> There you go again... presuming you know all
> 
> He was not a contractor but he said a lot of contractors do the shorter regional mail sorting centers.


Hence the use of the word suspect, as you did point out he was wearing expensive clothing, no mention of uniform. So did he make a point of saying I am not a contractor and I earn slightly less than a train driver?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Hence the use of the word suspect, as you did point out he was wearing expensive clothing, no mention of uniform. So did he make a point of saying I am not a contractor and I earn slightly less than a train driver


Just cause he was wearing expensive clothing was no reason to doubt him. He did actually ,make a point that he was an Auspost employee, since we sort of got onto that discussion on the 2nd beer

And he is just a truck driver so he may earn more than a train driver...


----------



## WarmerBeer (5/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> And he is just a truck driver so he may earn more than a train driver...


Pffft! As if anyone earns more than a train driver.


----------



## Vini2ton (5/8/16)

It's a shame children aren't allowed to drive. Offering contracts to them would open the market up to more flexability and competition thus keeping costs down for the consumer. They could sit on the old telstra phone-books to see over the wheel. Agile and innovative.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> It's a shame children aren't allowed to drive. Offering contracts to them would open the market up to more flexability and competition thus keeping costs down for the consumer. They could sit on the old telstra phone-books to see over the wheel. Agile and innovative.


Volvo are already all over it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kx67NnuSd0&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Vini2ton (5/8/16)

But if she was sitting on the phone-books actually driving the truck? Naah... those spectacles. If it comes to that, I think I'll travel by train, confident in the knowledge that it's been driven by a well trained and adequately renumerated professional.


----------



## madpierre06 (5/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Volvo are already all over it
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kx67NnuSd0&feature=youtu.be


Yeah, at Fortesque.


----------



## lost at sea (5/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I was talking to an Auspost driver on Monday arvo at the pub. He comes up every fortnight and does a change over bringing the truck from Sydney then taking the Casino one back then he does other runs.
> 
> 2 B Doubles choc full go the coast from Sydney just to service the east coast to Casino ( not including Newcastle ) every night,
> 
> I didnt ask what they payed him, but judging that he was drinking New wearing tracksuit pants made me think he earnt slightly less than a train driver


small world, a few years back i was doing another "safety course" for my line of work in the offshore. and a new guy was there trying to get into the industry, 
he was a B double driver for auspost as well, told me he had the best job on the coast as a truckie (which still sucked) as he did syd to coffs (or casino i cant remember) where he would meet with a truck coming from brisbane, they would immediately swap trucks and drive back the direction they just came, he did that every day back and forth, he said he had the cream job as he got ONE night a week in his own bed at home. the rest of the time was in the truck......**** THAT. wage was approx 100k i think. no wonder he was trying to get offshore.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/8/16)

Spent 17yrs on the NSW Railways travelling all over the state as a Comms Tech

You soon get sick of Hotel-Motel rooms after a while,

It was hard work and so many blokes I worked with complained about not being at HOME with the family

Yes the money was good, but at what price

Living out of a suitcase is a really shit lifestyle


----------



## lost at sea (5/8/16)

my entire working life has been living from a sea-bag, coming up to 15 years at sea for me now, i know no different. i currently spend 6 months per year at sea in oil & gas away from my partner and baby and people have the hide to tell me i'm over paid haha, come do a week at sea in a super-typhoon and tell me that, luckly now days we have a poor excuse for internet on board to keep in touch. but thats only a recent addition, when i was a young tuna-fisherman, we had jackshit, 5 - 7 other blokes you probably wouldnt want to be in a prison yard with, let alone a tuna-boat for 280 days a year at sea. 

working away is cool :blink:


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/8/16)

*when I was a young tuna-fisherman, we had jackshit, 5 - 7 other blokes you probably wouldnt want to be in a prison yard with, let alone a tuna-boat for 280 days a year at sea. *

Bloke I work with, who now just just programming on the company DBS/biling system was an ex Skipper...off the south of NZ. ( he went to Uni at 45 )


And the company owner is an ex Skipper and dive master.

And I thought Goulburn/Yass/Canberra was a cold **** of a place  prick of a cold place in winter untill they told me some stories


----------



## lost at sea (5/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> *when I was a young tuna-fisherman, we had jackshit, 5 - 7 other blokes you probably wouldnt want to be in a prison yard with, let alone a tuna-boat for 280 days a year at sea. *
> 
> Bloke I work with, who now just just programming on the company DBS/biling system was an ex Skipper...off the south of NZ. ( he went to Uni at 45 )
> 
> ...


yeah i did my share of southern bluefin seasons off the south coast of nsw/vic, THAT was cold enough on deck all night in winter, let alone southern NZ. mentals. still the best decision i ever made to run away and join the tuna-boats as a young bloke, no matter how hard that job was, i saw more in 5 years than most would see in a lifetime lol


----------



## goomboogo (6/8/16)

lost at sea said:


> my entire working life has been living from a sea-bag, coming up to 15 years at sea for me now, i know no different. i currently spend 6 months per year at sea in oil & gas away from my partner and baby and people have the hide to tell me i'm over paid haha,


I would suggest, anyone who tells you that you're overpaid hasn't given any real thought to what's involved.


----------



## Vini2ton (8/8/16)

You try telling that to young people today.


----------



## idzy (10/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Living out of a suitcase is a really shit lifestyle





lost at sea said:


> working away is cool :blink:


Definitely sucks. Used to do it at for part-time work when I was younger. Then at the start of my career and as I type I am away interstate. Being away from the wife, kid, family and friends, even for a short time, is a real sacrifice, so I have been trying to avoid it at all costs. Does get hard if your job demands it though.


----------



## arctic78 (10/8/16)

Like lost at sea I also work at sea but not offshore and my time away from my wife and kid ranges from 6 weeks for a short trip and up to 3 months for a long trip but we are required to do back to back trips and this could end up being 4.5 months in one stint. just to add this is a union job before you think otherwise lost at sea.
People who have never had to do this don't realise just what sort of demands it puts on your home life and how hard it is. I know the first thing someone who has no idea says is get anther job . Like it is just that easy.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (10/8/16)

arctic78 said:


> I know the first thing someone who has no idea says is get anther job . Like it is just that easy.


But according WEAL  some you can just go and get another job. Apparently it is very easy


----------



## lost at sea (10/8/16)

arctic78 said:


> Like lost at sea I also work at sea but not offshore and my time away from my wife and kid ranges from 6 weeks for a short trip and up to 3 months for a long trip but we are required to do back to back trips and this could end up being 4.5 months in one stint. just to add this is a union job before you think otherwise lost at sea.
> People who have never had to do this don't realise just what sort of demands it puts on your home life and how hard it is. I know the first thing someone who has no idea says is get anther job . Like it is just that easy.



you on the AA mate? good stuff.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/8/16)

SQUOT TORLET


----------



## Vini2ton (15/8/16)

Too hard to do the crossword on one of those things!


----------



## Dave70 (15/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But according WEAL  some you can just go and get another job. Apparently it is very easy


Busking is a job anyone can do. 

An the good thing is you still earn weather your good or bad. I once actually paid some ambiance ruining chick in Dublin 2 euros to take her 'squeeze box' and **** off down the street a bit. I think it was Sinead O'Connor come to think of it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (15/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But according WEAL  some you can just go and get another job. Apparently it is very easy, IF you have the will to be the architect of your own destiny.


FTFY


----------



## madpierre06 (15/8/16)

While you might be the architect, you've got a lot of subbies and other folks to rely on for the buidling to be completed...and that ain't necessarily gonna work out as planned.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (15/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> FTFY


Mor like the Ticketmaster mate - get ye hand off it for a second or two!


----------



## goomboogo (15/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Too hard to do the crossword on one of those things!


This guy has been doing the crossword in this way for years.


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## MHB (16/8/16)

Can someone "Please Explain" to Pauline's minion what the hell empirical evidence is, or find out what the he thinks it is.
Malcom Roberts is in my opinion a complete retard, thoroughly enjoyed watching Brian Cox demonstrate it.
Re Q&A 15/Aug/16
Mark

Phrased better


----------



## Liam_snorkel (16/8/16)

I just finished watching the episode - what a mind boggling display of wilful ignorance.


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## Dave70 (16/8/16)

Yes. One nation. They're all about hard scientific evidenced backed policy making, not consensus. 

*Despite there being absolutely no scientific evidence to support the theory Ms Hanson says people should think twice before immunising their children*
*'I have many people who have brought it to my attention, that's why their kids are autistic,' she told the Daily Mail.*

Haven't witnessed a more exasperating exchange since Pell and Dawkins. ( I swear they stacked the audience via the Xt3 network that day..)


----------



## Liam_snorkel (16/8/16)

the Dawkins / Fielding episode was also good but a bit more of a giggle.


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## MHB (16/8/16)

Is that where a geological feature is believed to be Noah's Ark - I mean sort of mistake any true believer could make...
M


----------



## Mardoo (16/8/16)

No silly, Noah's ark got petrified with the dinosaurs.


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## Dave70 (16/8/16)

40 days and nights? 
It must have stunk like shit inside that ark, big time.


----------



## Mardoo (16/8/16)

That diagram is totally wrong. Everyone had their own little poo door.


----------



## JDW81 (16/8/16)

MHB said:


> Can someone "Please Explain" to Pauline's minion what the hell empirical evidence is, or find out what the he thinks it is.
> Malcom Roberts is in my opinion a complete retard, thoroughly enjoyed watching Brian Cox demonstrate it.
> Re Q&A 15/Aug/16
> Mark
> ...


We really are represented by a bunch of retards. 

Immunisation, climate change and the NASA conspiracy, where will they venture next?

FFS, if you're going to argue with one of the most respected scientists of the last 20 years, then at least present some evidence that challenges the current knowledge base, don't just say the data has been fudged by NASA. 

Better no drive too far over the horizon Malcolm Roberts, you might fall off the edge of the earth. Maybe that's where God hid all the dinosaurs?

F&^k me, these effing politicians are making us look like a bunch of backwater, un-educated morons, more interested in peddling lies and mis-information, than doing anything useful to improve the lives of the people they supposedly represent.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (16/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> *'I have many people who have brought it to my attention, that's why their kids are autistic,' she told the Daily Mail.*



That is pure ******* GOLD


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (16/8/16)

The problem is, is that Roberts believes his own view and no one else s

But yeah...mindbogglingly ignorant


----------



## Vini2ton (16/8/16)

Cox was getting angry for a moment there, as sensible people do when facing cretin-like imbeciles. But he calmed down and realised if you argue endlessly with an idiot, you make an idiot of yourself. Empirical evidence that Roberts is a knob-head.


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## goomboogo (16/8/16)

Malcom Roberts mistakes not understanding the data for the data not existing. Even somthing as basic as a trend line is beyond his comprehension. He avoids the question of why agencies such as Nasa and the Australian BOM would collude to falsify climate records. He's quick to claim conspiratorial acts of subterfuge by scientists worldwide but fails to put forward reasons as to why they would do so.


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## manticle (16/8/16)

I hope everyone who voted for ON is as embarassed as they deserve to be.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/8/16)

manticle said:


> I hope everyone who voted for ON is as embarassed as they deserve to be.


Nope.. they will be gunning for the ABC, saying he was setup to look stupid

I hope the LNP ( and especially Malcolm ) watched that episode and thought " What the **** are we going to do now "

The problem is that when they start pointing out how stupid O.N. looks the Facebook army will scream as allowed/aloud* as they can. You know the ones, the ones that go on about all Muslims are terorrists and such. Its a battle of stupidity you can never win


* actual facebook speak


----------



## JDW81 (16/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Nope.. they will be gunning for the ABC, saying he was setup to look stupid


He didn't need the ABC to prove that.


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## LAGERFRENZY (16/8/16)

Too hard to see the telly with white sheets over their heads...


----------



## Jens-Kristian (17/8/16)

I'm amazed at how well Brian Cox kept his temper in check. 

One of the things about Cox, is that while he has that almost angelic smile on him, I've seen him fly off on people when they've really pushed him with their ignorance. I don't blame him for that for even a second; imagine having his mind and constantly being on panels to debate people with the intellect (I apply the word in its loosest possible definition) of Malcolm Roberts. There were a couple of moments where I thought '_shit, he's going to lose it now!_' but he managed to bring his face back from almost cramping up with the pain of the ceaseless stupid smacking into it. 

Roberts works to the same formula that the Tea Party, Fox commentators, Cory Bernardis etc. do. It boils down to strongly denying *everything *which even mildly suggests that what they believe may have flaws in it. Incredibly, they deny it from a position where _*everything*_ not just mildly suggests but strongly demonstrates that nearly everything they believe is utterly and completely out of step with reality.

I still cannot quite decide if I believe that these people actually believe the bullshit they are spouting, or if they are that cynical that they are willing to speak such garbage, to gain and maintain a following of people who will gobble it all up. I also cannot decide whether the former or the latter is more frightening.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (17/8/16)

I was reminded of this little piece of history repeating 3 years ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2013/aug/16/climate-change-denial-science-politics-australia-one-nation


----------



## Rocker1986 (17/8/16)

It was quite painful watching this looney debate something that he clearly has no understanding of. Amusing, but painful. And scary when you consider that some morons actually voted for him. It's the same old tired bullshit though, neatly summed up in this graphic, although they left out the bit that often happens where people who accept the data are labelled as sheeple or shills...


----------



## wide eyed and legless (17/8/16)

manticle said:


> I hope everyone who voted for ON is as embarassed as they deserve to be.


They are probably about as embarrassed as those who believe in climate change and have done bugger all to stop dragging their carbon boot prints all over the planet. And half as embarrassed as those who think that God won't let climate change happen.


----------



## MHB (17/8/16)

Was listening to "Talking Pictures" the other day, the cartoonist was bemoaning the absence of Tony Abbot and the sudden reduction in the size of the universal funny field.
I think ON will provide lots of opportunities to poke fun, exercise sarcasm, even whit...
So I suppose there is an upside to everything even these f'whits.
M


----------



## Dave70 (17/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Cox was getting angry for a moment there, as sensible people do when facing cretin-like imbeciles. But he calmed down and realised if you argue endlessly with an idiot, you make an idiot of yourself. Empirical evidence that Roberts is a knob-head.


 I would have encouraged held nothing against Cox if he fashioned that report into a tightly wound cylinder and smacked Roberts in the side of the head with it.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> I would have encouraged held nothing against Cox if he fashioned that report into a tightly wound cylinder wrapped around a solid steel bar and smacked Roberts in the side of the head with it.


FTFY


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

It was like the worlds smartest man v an idiot


----------



## RobW (17/8/16)

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-new-senator-from-wonderland-dons-his-special-aluminium-helmet-20160816-gqth4d.html

Blame the fucktup system that lets him get elected with 77 personal votes


----------



## wide eyed and legless (17/8/16)

RobW said:


> http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-new-senator-from-wonderland-dons-his-special-aluminium-helmet-20160816-gqth4d.html
> 
> Blame the fucktup system that lets him get elected with 77 personal votes


Always said it was easy to get a job, $200,000 per annum plus expenses, not bad.


----------



## arctic78 (17/8/16)

Most idiots end up wearing down a rational person due their superior ignorance and blind faith in what they are saying.
The normal or rational person realises it is like ramming your head against a brick wall, Pointless.


----------



## Zorco (17/8/16)

arctic78 said:


> Most idiots end up wearing down a rational person due their superior ignorance and blind faith in what they are saying.
> The normal or rational person realises it is like ramming your head against a brick wall, Pointless.


Advocating science and the pursuit of truth is never.....NEVER pointless.


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Always said it was easy to get a job, $200,000 per annum plus expenses, not bad.


So why arent you there ?


----------



## wide eyed and legless (17/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> So why arent you there ?


Leaving my options open, a vacancy for a train driver might come up.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Leaving my options open, a vacancy for a train driver might come up.


You wont be able to survive on a traindriver wage


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## Vini2ton (17/8/16)

Roberts reminds me of some starry-eyed happy clapping born-again types I met in Queensland back in the early 80's. Is he related to that so-called christian- archaeoligist that reckoned he found Noah's ark in Turkey? Same dog, different arse.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

He certainly is in denial about climate change


----------



## pcmfisher (17/8/16)

Malcolm Roberts did accomplish one thing. 
He made Linda Burney on the other end of the table sound nearly half intelligent.


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## wobbly (17/8/16)

I don't know Mal Roberts but to suggest that he shows little intelligence or is a moron is stretching a bit of a long bow. He holds an honours degree in engineering as well as a masters degree in Business Administration.
In reading the various post about his interchange with Brian Cox a number of observations spring to mind.
Cox is a physicist not a climatologist and therefore it is unlikely that he is qualified to pass "factual vs anecdotal" evidence on the subject. 
Whilst it is acknowledged that Cox is very intelligent that doesn't necessarily extend to this subject and lets not loose sight of the fact that most if not all of his income comes from being a speaker on the popularist environmental, political and economic ideology circuit. Hence his appearance on Q&A to continue to support the one sided climate change debate under the guise of so called Science Based Evidence. 
"Don't let the facts spoil a good story" springs to mind.

Those that haven't should take the time to "see the other side" of this whole climate change debate and read the Publication "Climate Change-The facts" by a number of well qualified Phd authors/writers.

The conclusion of chapter one is worth repeating.

Climate change catastrphism is the biggest scientific fraud that has ever occurred. Much climate "science" is political ideology dressed up as science. There are times in history when the popular consensus is demonstrably wrong and we live in such a time. Cheap energy is fundamental for employment, living in the modern world, and for bringing the Third World out of Poverty
As a result of noisy minority political pressures, Western democratic governments have increased energy costs and created subsidised energy systems that have created a new source of tax revenue. Politicians have responded to a ground swell of unscientific environmental concerns rather than make hard decisions. The end result is increased unemployment, lack of competitiveness, energy poverty and increased costs. unless nature has another surprise for us, three short decades of irresponsible climate policy will take at least a generation to reverse because there are now armies of bureaucrats, politicians, scientists and businesses living off the climate catastrophe scare. Furthermore, the education system has been captured by activists, and the young are inculcated with environmental, political and economic ideology. During their education, these same young people are not given the basic critical and analytical methods to evaluate ideology that has been presented as fact. Only a brave government can change the education system to one that prepares people for life.

wobbly


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## Vini2ton (17/8/16)

So I suppose were all just stupid Ill-educated nuff-nuffs. I really didn't want to believe all that shit anyway. I was just going along with those socialist scientists so I'd sound cool to all those uni chicks. What a relief. Now is the time.


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## SBOB (17/8/16)

Wobbly, considering that book is put out by the 'institute of public affairs' which is

"The IPA is one of the few right wing lobby groups in Australia that campaigns for action to increase global warming and climate change. It tends to be pro-fossil fuel and anti-mitigation of global warming. It panders to right wing science deniers."

Quoting it in opposition to the vast vast vast majority of scientific research into climate science is putting you in good contention to get about 20 votes and make it into the senate in a few years


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## LAGERFRENZY (17/8/16)

I'll bet that some of the contributing Phd author/writers are or were also on the payroll of Big Tobacco as well not so long ago.


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## goomboogo (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> I don't know Mal Roberts but to suggest that he shows little intelligence or is a moron is stretching a bit of a long bow. He holds an honours degree in engineering as well as a masters degree in Business Administration.


Intelligence isn't necessarily gauged by the completion of such degrees. I hold high level university qualifications and I'm dumb as ****. Just like Malcolm Roberts.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/8/16)

Complaining about ideology, while quoting an ideological lobby group. Well done Wobbly old chap.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/8/16)

Here's a little more commentary, worth a read for the giggle
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/malcolm-roberts-leaves-nasa-'flummoxed'-with-q&a-climate-claims-20160815-gqt9a4.html


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## TheWiggman (17/8/16)

I feel a bit dirty posting here but...

This is a good read on the whole concept of intelligence critical thinking: https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4160
You have to be intelligent to hold a masters in engineering. Simple as that. It doesn't mean you have any common sense, the ability to walk, or don't suffer from some sort of learning disability but you need intelligence in a field to get a masters. The ability to think critically however has nothing to do with it.
Likewise, Cox could be a gardener but this doesn't make him wrong. Questioning his field of study is irrelevant if his facts line up and his statements are correct. For instance, I can tell you that adding lactic acid to water will reduce the pH. I'm not a chemist, don't know exactly how it works, but I'm right. However Cox is indeed an intelligent man and has more than enough expertise in the field in my opinion, and his references are sound.

Anyway, I'm going back to the stands to watch.


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## manticle (17/8/16)

Climate change is a fraud?
Oh my.

Brian Cox is a physicist and malcolm is a fringe right wing politician who worked in the fossil fuel industry, has weird thoughts about grammar and won a seat in the senate with less than 100 votes. Hmm, which one should I side with?

As if a business qualification means you're smart.


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## SBOB (17/8/16)

Wobbly, can I also just remind you that he claimed NASA messed with historic temperature figures 

Thats the kind of nutty tin-foil hat wearing claims you read on the internet along with 9/11 and elvis conspiracies. Anyone that takes anything he says serious must have taken too many shots every time he said 'empirical evidence'


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## Liam_snorkel (17/8/16)

and not just NASA but the BOM, NOAA, British Met Office, Japan Met Office the list goes on. How would a conspiracy that large and wide ranging be pulled off? And even if it were true, all it would mean is the increased energy is ending up somewhere else which isn't showing up into the data. It wouldn't refute the underlying physics.

Wiggman above made a good point about critical thinking.

This was a good listen regarding the psychology of conspiracy theorists:
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind/it's-a-conspiracy/7148806#transcript


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## wobbly (17/8/16)

Then there was this guys predictions that had all the "believers" trembling in their boots







And for those of you old enough to remember way back to the turn of the century there was this prediction that all the planes could fall out of the sky, that business would come to a grinding halt and power stations would shut down just to mane a few issues that the bureaucrats, politicians and scientist would have us believe that at the stroke of midnight on 31/12/1999 unless you spent millions rewriting all the system software.

Hello don't recall any of that happening

Wobbly


----------



## lost at sea (17/8/16)

yeah the I.P.A have never had an ideological agenda before........


----------



## MHB (17/8/16)

It was the observations of people all over the world (empirical evidence) that lead to the theory of climate change.
A very similar series of events lead to the banning of CFC refrigerants and aerosol propellants, observation, theory of how it works, and in the case of CFC's a global response and 30 years later, guess what the ozone hole is getting smaller so I guess we got that one right.

The same is happening with Climate change, but being old enough to remember the CFC debate I recognise a lot of similarities - especially from the naysayers.
Science is observation - theory - response, all in the open with the best trained people in the world more than willing to point out your mistakes (peer review).

Before that they stopped testing nuclear weapons in the atmosphere or under water because the amount of radio active material in people and environments all over the world was going up and "most" people didn't think that was a good idea.

At present, the vast weight of evidence supports the theory that man made CO2 is causing changes to the atmosphere, most scientist and people that look at the evidence agree on that (well nearly all)
Mark


----------



## SBOB (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Then there was this guys predictions that had all the "believers" trembling in their boots
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you realise climate change just isn't higher peak temps right?

but I'm just hoping you're one of those people who like to stir sh*t for fun, because I'd prefer to think you're a troll than a fool..


----------



## manticle (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Then there was this guys predictions that had all the "believers" trembling in their boots
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What makes you think there's a parallel between wild baseless predictions from (presumably 1900 not 1999) and considered models based on a massive amount of data from a wide variety of reputable sources? A shitty cartoon or something more substantial?


----------



## GalBrew (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Then there was this guys predictions that had all the "believers" trembling in their boots
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And here I thought that planes didn't fall out of the sky on 1/1/2000 because they addressed the Y2K problem rather than ignoring it?


----------



## wobbly (17/8/16)

SBOB and others

Take the time to read this article. I acknowledge that it may go against your thinking but it can't be discounted out of hand simply because it doesn't comply with your thinking

http://www.galileomovement.com.au/docs/11.11.08%20bob%20carter%20Quadrant%20Article.pdf

And no I'm not trolling nor a fool just someone who believes scientists don't have all the answers associated with future projections. Take Ross Gaunaut he is an economist, and most likely a good one, but even you would have to agree that his climate change credentials are /were pretty thin yet the government (Rudd) took what he had to say (paraphrased from IPCC) and jumped in the deep end. Computer modeling to arrive at forward predictions/projections are just (best guess) that and no better. All realistic models will/should have a disclaimer that the model predictions are based on past events/performance and should not be used as a basis for predicting future performance. Just ask anyone that uses models to predict future share market prices or closer to home next weeks weather. They are a guide at best of what might occur but no guarantee. 

Wobbly


Wobbly


----------



## manticle (17/8/16)

Oh you did mean 1999? Yeah cos they recognised the possible issues and did something about it to prevent it.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)




----------



## Rocker1986 (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Take the time to read this article. I acknowledge that it may go against your thinking but it can't be discounted out of hand simply because it doesn't comply with your thinking


Neither can all the empirical evidence and data that has been collected over many years, but that's exactly what the science deniers do. The evidence doesn't agree with their opinion so therefore it's either wrong, corrupted or a massive ******* conspiracy. And then you wonder why they all get labelled tin foil hat brigade morons.


----------



## wobbly (17/8/16)

GalBrew said:


> And here I thought that planes didn't fall out of the sky on 1/1/2000 because they addressed the Y2K problem rather than ignoring it?


There wasn't a Y2K problem and that is fact not fiction or some other bureaucratic, political, or scientists hypothesis and I know as I managed a major Iron Ore producers IT group at the time. I didn't agree with it then and still believe it was a load of miss information

Wobbly


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)




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## manticle (17/8/16)

You're welcome to your political party mate.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/8/16)

Linking to Galileo Movement? Oh please wobbly. That isn't an evidence source or objective in any way. Here's a little run down:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/galileo-movement-fuels-australia-climate-change-divide/


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)




----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)




----------



## wobbly (17/8/16)

manticle said:


> You're welcome to your political party mate.


My views are just that my views and we will leave it at that.



Ducatiboy stu said:


>


And guess what Stu I do know the earth is not flat regardless of what you may think not that your thoughts concern me

Wobbly


----------



## MHB (17/8/16)

Remember how annoying the "no chill will give you botulism" discussion got - well where getting there again.

I was selling fresh wort kits at the time, duty of care and all that, so I raised the question with my insurance broker, sent then a process description, ingredients all that and asked the question.
They couldn't answer, eventually the question went up the line to the CDC in the US who have the best botulism computer model in the world...
My insurer saw no need to raise my premium, there is/was an acknowledged risk but it was less than getting hit by lightning.

In this case there is a risk, it is still being assessed, the weight of evidence is pretty conclusive, the down side is potentially so big, the counter evidence so poor that the odds of climate change being a danger to us all is the way to bet.

Mark


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> My views are just that my views and we will leave it at that.
> 
> 
> And guess what Stu I do know the earth is not flat regardless of what you may think not that your thoughts concern me
> ...


If my thoughts concerned you we would all be in deep shit


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## LAGERFRENZY (17/8/16)

wobbly said:


> My views are just that my views and we will leave it at that.
> 
> 
> And guess what Stu I do know the earth is not flat regardless of what you may think not that your thoughts concern me
> ...


I thought that I read in another post that you voted for "Pauline" at the last election. Which in itself is a pretty impressive feat for a Western Australian voter to get a Queensland Senator up! A bit like saying that you voted for Clive when you really only went for his Wang...


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

MHB said:


> Remember how annoying the "no chill will give you botulism" discussion


Only because its true...FFS, everyone knows that


----------



## Liam_snorkel (17/8/16)

Ok I'll bite

"And no I'm not trolling nor a fool just someone who believes scientists don't have all the answers associated with future projections."

- you're right, they don't. Peer reviewed rigorous science is the best tool we have to make future predictions. I

"Take Ross Gaunaut he is an economist, and most likely a good one, but even you would have to agree that his climate change credentials are /were pretty thin yet the government (Rudd) took what he had to say (paraphrased from IPCC) and jumped in the deep end."

- if you read the terms of reference of the Garnaut reviews - they were to report on the latest developments in climate science - generally as presented by the IPCC, and advise on economic and energy policy that will be affected. That's where his skills are. 

"Computer modeling to arrive at forward predictions/projections are just (best guess) that and no better. All realistic models will/should have a disclaimer that the model predictions are based on past events/performance"

- they do 

"and should not be used as a basis for predicting future performance."

- why? 

"Just ask anyone that uses models to predict future share market prices or closer to home next weeks weather. They are a guide at best of what might occur but no guarantee. "

- what are you suggesting we do? Continue to enhance the greenhouse effect (you can't claim this isn't happening), ignoring predictions of what will happen (which are based on sound well understood physics) as a result. And then only react?

Do you slow down and steer around corners when you drive, or hit the guard rail and let it direct the vehicle around them?


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## MHB (17/8/16)

Ok its out to 16 pages, I think we all know where we stand, it's about time to stop before people start to take it too personally - Kill the thread

Personally I'm out of this one - cant win a religious discussion - just start a war.
Mark


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/8/16)

MHB said:


> cant win a religious discussion - just start a war.


Like that has ever happened


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## malt and barley blues (18/8/16)

What was believed in the 1970's
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/


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## Liam_snorkel (18/8/16)

And once again - belief is irrelevant, the position of science adapts as new information and methods of inquiry come about. 

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/raising-hell-for-40-years/6335336

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_climate_change_science


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## manticle (18/8/16)

Forget it Liam. They have Lord Monckton.
You can't fight that.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

While science is amazing I would tend to keep an open mind, with some facts as wobbly pointed out scientists are not always right, it was only a few years ago that another eminent scientist one Stephen Hawking and other scientists believed that following the big bang all sorts of shit went hurtling through space in a cone shape and it had now slowed down, and when it stops it will all come hurtling back down to its point of origin. Now they say far from slowing down it is actually speeding up so they certainly got that one wrong.
Last year NASA said that the hole in the ozone was getting even bigger, this year they say it has shrunk by 4 million square miles.

When Stephen Hawking was asked at the end of that science show he introduces (can't recall the name) how long has man got left on earth, he replied 1000 years, but I had to admire his sense of humour when he added, if they can slow down climate change tack a couple of weeks on to the end of that.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (18/8/16)

well, the point about singularity is that it is at the very limits of our understanding/models of fundamental physics. There isn't really a parallel with that and climate science - the uncertainty with climate science is that we're dealing with a very complicated system and how it will behave with increased heat energy will be a 'wait & see' situation - what we do know is that we're causing a geologically abrupt change to it, and we can make predictions based on models which accurately fit past data. It's the best we can do.
It's highly unlikely that humans will be extinct in the near future - but fast changes in the environment will cause many ecosystems that we rely upon to collapse, taking thousands of years to recover any kind of biodiversity.

The point regarding the ozone hole is that it fluctuates seasonally - and last year was a particularly large peak. They didn't say "it's getting bigger"



Paul A. Newman said:


> While the current ozone hole is larger than in recent years, the area occupied by this year’s hole is consistent with our understanding of ozone depletion chemistry and consistent with colder than average weather conditions in Earth’s stratosphere, which help drive ozone depletion,


http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/annual-antarctic-ozone-hole-larger-and-formed-later-in-2015


----------



## Dave70 (18/8/16)

wobbly said:


> *I don't know Mal Roberts but to suggest that he shows little intelligence or is a moron is stretching a bit of a long bow. He holds an honours degree in engineering as well as a masters degree in Business Administration.*
> In reading the various post about his interchange with Brian Cox a number of observations spring to mind.
> Cox is a physicist not a climatologist and therefore it is unlikely that he is qualified to pass "factual vs anecdotal" evidence on the subject.
> Whilst it is acknowledged that Cox is very intelligent that doesn't necessarily extend to this subject and lets not loose sight of the fact that most if not all of his income comes from being a speaker on the popularist environmental, political and economic ideology circuit. Hence his appearance on Q&A to continue to support the one sided climate change debate under the guise of so called Science Based Evidence.
> ...


A demonstrably high degree of intelligence is not necessarily bulwark against mighty ignorance. This guy is one of the best (and most ironic) examples I can think of.
Meet Francis Collins, head of the human genome project. Check the mans credentials, no dummy to say the least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins


Now, an excerpt from his NYT best seller:








*On a beautiful fall day, as I was hiking in the Cascade Mountains during my first trip west of the Mississippi, the majesty and beauty of God’s creation overwhelmed my resistance. As I rounded a corner and saw a beautiful and unexpected frozen waterfall, hundreds of feet high, I knew the search was over. The next morning, I knelt in the dewy grass as the sun rose and surrendered to Jesus Christ.*

Cox himself is hardly a voice in the wilderness on the topic of anthropomorphic climate change and stands shoulder to shoulder with the likes of astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson and theoretical physicist Laurence Krauss, a formidable brains trust of critical thinkers if ever there was one, and yes, Cox obviously a charismatic spokesperson, particularly if you're a fan of D:Ream..
By that measure though, Roberts is making an argument so vastly outside his own field of expertise it's risible. His political loyalties pretty much omit him from any rational discourse in any case. 
Perhaps Mal needs apply that masters degree to his own thought process and iron out the bugs.


----------



## Zorco (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> While science is amazing I would tend to keep an open mind,


Whoa,

Hold it the **** right there.......

Science is the epitome of an open mind. Any perspective, comments, or assertions to separate the two need a bullet.

WEAL, FFS.

Not you too???


----------



## Liam_snorkel (18/8/16)

I always suspected


----------



## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

Another candidate for a bullet.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> The point regarding the ozone hole is that it fluctuates seasonally - and last year was a particularly large peak. They didn't say "it's getting bigger"
> 
> http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/annual-antarctic-ozone-hole-larger-and-formed-later-in-2015


Liam... Please do not spoil WEAL's party....that would not be fair


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> Cox obviously a charismatic spokesperson, particularly if you're a fan of D:Ream..


Thats right. Things will only get better.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

I purchased my solar system in November 2009, so not a skeptic by any means.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-01/hole-in-the-ozone-layer-is-finally-healing/7556416


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> so not a skeptic by any means.


Exept for the pay rates of train driver


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

Talking of smart musicians

This man has a Phd in Astrophysics


----------



## Dave70 (18/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Thats right. Things *will* only get better.


Originally, yes, than changed to things *can *only get better. Apparently Cox wasn't comfortable with 'will' and its implication of inevitable events in the future tense in respect to the random motion of objects as it relates to gravity and quantum mechanics.


----------



## pcmfisher (18/8/16)

Y2K? Predicting stock markets?
Wobbly, do you have shares in a straw man factory?


----------



## Zorco (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Another candidate for a bullet.



What the **** are you on about....? NdGT (in that pic) is expressing the Socratic Paradox....in self awareness of the enormity of life and relative insignificance of our individual knowledge. NdGT asserts that curiosity remains and is innately human. All that can remain is the pursuit of truth....the mechanic to do this is the scientific method.

WEAL, if you indeed are on the fringe of rationality, for purposes other than inflammatory forum additions, then articulate your....for lack of a better word...'points' thoroughly.

That way I can be more methodical in dismantling the errors, question the details and uncover the truths.

What we need to get out of here is the pissing contest of egos.......Your points of view are entirely welcomed, but respect us by standing on the stage of adults so the discourse is intelligent and progressive. I dearly want that.

If you are simply shit stirring because you can then it is unwelcome and you will end up being ignored. 

How do we both reach the point where we are open to being wrong and taking a new point of view..... That can and should be our common ground.


----------



## drsmurto (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> While science is amazing I would tend to keep an open mind, with some facts as wobbly pointed out scientists are not always right, it was only a few years ago that another eminent scientist one Stephen Hawking and other scientists believed that following the big bang all sorts of shit went hurtling through space in a cone shape and it had now slowed down, and when it stops it will all come hurtling back down to its point of origin. Now they say far from slowing down it is actually speeding up so they certainly got that one wrong.
> Last year NASA said that the hole in the ozone was getting even bigger, this year they say it has shrunk by 4 million square miles.
> 
> When Stephen Hawking was asked at the end of that science show he introduces (can't recall the name) how long has man got left on earth, he replied 1000 years, but I had to admire his sense of humour when he added, if they can slow down climate change tack a couple of weeks on to the end of that.


Excellent, another member with no clue of the scientific process. 

Is climate change a done deal? Of course, not. Scientists are constantly feeding new data in to the models to reassess. It would be amazing if we came up with the data that showed it was wrong but on the current overwhelming amount of evidence this is not the case. No denier has ever trumped up quality, peer reviewed evidence to validate their hypothesis. 

The idea that scientists are not open minded is so utterly ignorant. Science is the ultimate in open mindedness, it is not driven by belief but instead by evidence. Do we as scientists get it wrong? Absolutely! I for one, am wrong far more often than am I right and it is often the hypotheses I get wrong that are the most useful.

Your examples demonstrate exactly that, open mindedness. New data showed the original hypothesis/theory to be wrong, scientists did not argue with the data, instead they changed their view. This is exactly how science works.


----------



## technobabble66 (18/8/16)

^^ wot 'e said, guv'nor.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

zorsoc cosdog what I suggested is keeping an open mind allows one to not be swayed by preconceived ideas, can't see anything wrong with that.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> zorsoc cosdog what I suggested is keeping an open mind allows one to not be swayed by preconceived ideas, can't see anything wrong with that.


What...like climate change isnt real


----------



## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

If I didn't think climate change was real I wouldn't have invested the coin in a solar system, that and the fact I get 66 cents /kwhr FIT.


----------



## Zorco (18/8/16)

Nice to have you back WEAL.....

I missed you.


----------



## Dave70 (18/8/16)

So..
Didn't Pauline Hanson look a right goose on that Q & A program..


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

You can lead a horse to water, but **** they are hard to drown


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> So..
> Didn't Pauline Hanson look a right goose on that Q & A program..


Only because the ABC stacked the audience against her to make he look stupid ( after they immunised her and gave her a glass of fluoridated water )


----------



## Dave70 (18/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> *Only because the ABC stacked the audience against her to make he look stupid *( after they immunised her and gave her a glass of fluoridated water )


Really? Where did the ABC find so many shop mannequins on such short notice?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> Really? Where did the ABC find so many shop mannequins on such short notice?


From the left


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> If I didn't think climate change was real I wouldn't have invested the coin in a solar system, that and the fact I get 66 cents /kwhr FIT.


That is more a financial decision, rather than one based on climate change


----------



## sp0rk (18/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Cox is a physicist not a climatologist and therefore it is unlikely that he is qualified to pass "factual vs anecdotal" evidence on the subject.
> Whilst it is acknowledged that Cox is very intelligent that doesn't necessarily extend to this subject and lets not loose sight of the fact that most if not all of his income comes from being a speaker on the popularist environmental, political and economic ideology circuit. Hence his appearance on Q&A to continue to support the one sided climate change debate under the guise of so called Science Based Evidence.
> "Don't let the facts spoil a good story" springs to mind.


Cox actually spends a lot of time working at CERN on the LHC...


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

Pauline Hanson is a Fish n Chip cook therefore not qualified to be a politician


----------



## Dave70 (18/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Pauline Hanson is a Fish n Chip cook therefore not qualified to be a politician


 She actually _does_ meet the rigorous standards for representation in Australian politics, you may be surprised to learn.

Over 18
Australian citizen.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> That is more a financial decision, rather than one based on climate change


No, definitely was a stand against global warming, though I must admit my dark humour did play a part in the decision, It was paid for with money from the black economy and it gave me a giggle thinking of the government kicking in their share and paying me the 66 cents FIT for the next 15 years

So..
Didn't Pauline Hanson look a right goose on that Q & A program..
Now that would be a good topic


----------



## wide eyed and legless (18/8/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Nice to have you back WEAL.....
> 
> I missed you.


I missed you too, it was like I had never been away.


----------



## Vini2ton (18/8/16)

We've got 18 pages of this and it started about Pauline on Q and A. The umpire hasn't even bounced the ball yet. So when does parliament actually start. I can't wait. The world is watching.


----------



## Florian (18/8/16)

Remember the AHB days when the number of posts on a page wasn't limited to 20? 
When people wouldn't constantly waffle on about how many pages we had filled already on this and on that topic? 
Just pure meaningless discussion til the cows come home...


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (18/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> We've got 18 pages of this and it started about Pauline on Q and A. The umpire hasn't even bounced the ball yet. So when does parliament actually start. I can't wait. The world is watching.


Another fortnight I believe. Malcolm seems a little reluctant to govern until he can conjure some sort of a win - I predict that he is herding the One Nation and Xenophon cats into supporting his ABCC bill (albeit with Nick's amendments) in a Joint Sitting. Then watch Malcolm crow about how the Double Dissolution was a wonderful thing...


----------



## madpierre06 (18/8/16)

Ahh yes, govern for party and financial backers, screw the country.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (18/8/16)

Wait, was WEAL seriously suggesting de Grasse Tyson is a candidate for a bullet?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> No, definitely was a stand against global warming,


So your against global warming.

I was worried there for a minute, was thinking..." WEAL has finally been able to see that global warming and climate change are real "

Thank (something resembling God ) the old WEAL is back


----------



## manticle (18/8/16)

I think he was comparing his own attitude with that of de Grasse to say if one was a bullet candidate, so too was the other.
I also was initially confused.


----------



## manticle (18/8/16)

Replying to a deleted post.
... a ghost post


----------



## Liam_snorkel (19/8/16)

:sigh:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-19/meet-voters-shunned-major-parties-in-favour-of-pauline-hanson/7762820?pfm=ms


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## manticle (19/8/16)

That's less than 5 people think she's smart.

To be honest, the success of people like hanson and Lambie is based a lot on the impression of 'straight talking' vs slimy, weasly doublethink sir humphrey type bullshit from our high level politicians shares a large portion of blame.


----------



## Dave70 (19/8/16)

:cringe:


----------



## Liam_snorkel (19/8/16)

^ more accurate. Has it really come to this?


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Shit goes in circles mate.
Every time it finally flushes away in the pipes, another arsehole lays the next turd.


----------



## Bridges (19/8/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> :sigh:
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-19/meet-voters-shunned-major-parties-in-favour-of-pauline-hanson/7762820?pfm=ms


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

Well...we can blame Liberal for the mess we are in...

Its not like the LNP can go "Its all Labors fault" now... B)


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

I don't like Libs but blame goes further.
can blame labor for having shit leadership and average policies too. If they were amazing, everyone might have actually voted for them.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Last amazing Labour PM was sacked in 1975. The bar was set much lower after that.

Edited PM instead of Leader


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Hawke and keating had more moments than any current mob too.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

manticle said:


> I don't like Libs but blame goes further.
> can blame labor for having shit leadership and average policies too. If they were amazing, everyone might have actually voted for them.


I think that just shows the state of politics at the moment... both sides have been very unimpressive and the voters just had enough....and you cant blame them either


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

manticle said:


> Hawke and keating had more moments than any current mob too.


Well they actually did some good things, there was pain involved but we have things to thank them for now


----------



## SBOB (19/8/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> :sigh:
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-19/meet-voters-shunned-major-parties-in-favour-of-pauline-hanson/7762820?pfm=ms


what the f*

the second guy (Ray Harvey) is (I'm assuming) married to someone who is of non-white decent, and therefore likely an immigrant to this country at some stage (seperate to the rest of us *white* immigrants) 

The same kind that Pauline was complaining about a decade ago regarding asian immigrants

Talk about completely moronic standards

(reading the rest of the article, his wife came from China in the 1990s... the exact time when Pauline was complaining about another group of immigrants)


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

No argument from me DBS.
Get a bit surprised at common accusations at greens for being lunatics (free dental care anyone? yes we've costed it) when the mainstream parties have abetz and bernardi on side and ON have several reps.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

manticle said:


> Hawke and keating had more moments than any current mob too.


By that reckoning Malcolm Fraser ran rings around the current Labour mob too.


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Yep


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

I was nearly going to write something complimentary about John Winston until I started losing the will to breathe any more...


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Nah


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

manticle said:


> when the mainstream parties have abetz and bernardi on side



(((shudders))))


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Dammit he banned semi automatic weapons and saved a massacre in East Timor. On the other hand was the Alliance of the Witless and Work Choices


----------



## Dave70 (19/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I think that just shows the state of politics at the moment... both sides have been very unimpressive and the voters just had enough....and you cant blame them either


I actually like the fact that it was a close election. Shows a nice balance between the center left and center right, with the identity politics - in group / out group loyalists way way down the pecking order. 
Neither have we resorted to a koo de tah, civil war or political assassinations. 
Political landslides seem to be good indicator somethings desperately fucked somewhere. Its all about the Yin Yang you see.


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

I get the feeling the yin yang you're talking about is 3 year old cheddar on one hand and 5 yr old on the other. I prefer comparing roquefort to kraft slices and I jest ain't gettin' it.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

I agree that close elections show we have balance, it also shows both parties that they must perform or get booted. It also means things are will tend to be stable ( if not stale ) as no side can ride with to wild an idea


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

manticle said:


> I get the feeling the yin yang you're talking about is 3 year old cheddar on one hand and 5 yr old on the other. I prefer comparing roquefort to kraft slices and I jest ain't gettin' it.


Prefer a warm and stinky Stilton but I get your vibe


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

Parmigiano-Reggiano FTW


----------



## Vini2ton (19/8/16)

I think the electorate is that fickle and ignorant of our real issues, that they didn't vote Labor because Shorten has a bulbous head and a whiney voice and Gillard had a whiney voice and a fat bum. Now red hair is a factor that attracts people, but I'm full of shit because Pauline has a whiney voice and red hair. But in the the digital age I'm very distracted. Especially by poodles with fluffy tails.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

And eight week long campaigns are no way near long enough for the electorate to become totally disengaged.


----------



## Dave70 (19/8/16)

manticle said:


> I get the feeling the yin yang you're talking about is 3 year old cheddar on one hand and 5 yr old on the other. I prefer comparing roquefort to kraft slices and I jest ain't gettin' it.


And never will you. All you'll get in reality is a platter of cheese so intermingled and finely diced as to be virtually indistinguishable from each other anyway. On the bright side, you can always identify the crackers.


----------



## Dave70 (19/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> And eight week long campaigns are no way near long enough for the electorate to become totally disengaged.


I tried to remain engaged, but inevitably wound up looking at porn.


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> And never will you. All you'll get in reality is a platter of cheese so intermingled and finely diced as to be virtually indistinguishable from each other anyway. On the bright side, you can always identify the crackers.


Plain vs pepper


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Pepper crackers are the work of Satan


----------



## lost at sea (19/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Dammit he banned semi automatic weapons and saved a massacre in East Timor. On the other hand was the Alliance of the Witless and Work Choices


whilst i agree on the gun amnesty, do you really think we would have stuck our hand up for timor if we knew we weren't going to get half of their gas fields...


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

@lager frenzy: In an age where yoga and music can lead to satanic/demonic possession manipulated by the annanukai controlled elite bloodline illuminati in collusion with the secret government and hollywood's transgender agenda, I can cope with pepper in my biscuits.


Oh my god a black sun☀


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

These reptilians always trip thereselves up if you hive em enough rope son


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

lost at sea said:


> whilst i agree on the gun amnesty, do you really think we would have stuck our hand up for timor if we knew we weren't going to get half of their gas fields...


I was only kinda thinking of something nice to say about him, under immense amount of peer pressure, mind altering drugs and with fingers and legs crossed.


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Seen them shapeshift many a time. Can' t believe more aren't awake.

Shills and disinfo agents, the lot.
Where's my Roquegort?
Would settle for Rochefort.


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

Proof of reptilians = tony abbot, the lizard king.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Late prick Packer was some big Goanna in his heyday


----------



## manticle (19/8/16)

**** yeah. Blood drinking goanna packer


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Pepper crackers are the work of Satan


But they are oh so good


----------



## malt junkie (19/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But they are oh so good


especially with a hefe, or mild pale.... or even apa or IPA... hell just give me the box already- what are we married or somethin!!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

I bought some Porter soaked cheddar not long back from the local butcher.( the have a deli section.... :icon_drool2: ) ..man was that awesome with cracked pepper crackers


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Yes but what did you wash it down with?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

Well....I tried a few things

Coopers Sparkling Ale
Sheaf Stout
Merlot
Shiraz


And I still cant pick a favorite. I will get some more, but it was about $40kg and the wedge I got was about $15, but I will get some more


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

All of this cheese talk is making me peckish and thirsty. Need stinky blue stilton plain crackers and chocolate vanilla porter...


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

Only on AHB could you derail a political thread with cheese


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Good cheese never disappoints and makes good beer betterer


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/8/16)

Which reminds me, Bocconcini with cracked pepper crackers is what I am eating now...bastards mad me hungry


----------



## WarmerBeer (19/8/16)

Bhuja mix, IPA, and Netflix.

What a great Fri night.

Edit: And none of this has anything to do with Pauline Hanson. Even better.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (19/8/16)

Hearts and minds vs tasty snacks and booze - no contest.


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/16)

MHB said:


> Remember how annoying the "no chill will give you botulism" discussion got - well where getting there again.
> 
> I was selling fresh wort kits at the time, duty of care and all that, so I raised the question with my insurance broker, sent then a process description, ingredients all that and asked the question.
> They couldn't answer, eventually the question went up the line to the CDC in the US who have the best botulism computer model in the world...
> ...


This. If climate change is wrong and we try to do something about it, the worst case scenario is that we might slow or pause economic growth. If climate change is right and we do nothing, we're fucked. Not fucked as in Australia losing the ashes again (I'm a POM, it's an ancient English law that I have to mention it), but fucked as in gone, done, dusted, sayonara human life on earth. Personally, I don't give a shit who's right, but I'm voting for the party who understand what at stake.


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I bought some Porter soaked cheddar not long back from the local butcher.( the have a deli section.... :icon_drool2: ) ..man was that awesome with cracked pepper crackers


If you like cheddar, if you get the chance, visit and try the real stuff. The milk is from grass fed cows that live on limestone escarpments, and it creamy, minerally with a sharp, lactic twang. Still reckon it's sacrilege to call anything but cheddar from Cheddar, cheddar.


----------



## malt and barley blues (20/8/16)

Woolies had a strong Dorset cheddar not so long back, best I have found at the moment without going to Vic Market is the Aldi Strong English cheddar


----------



## goomboogo (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only on AHB could you derail a political thread with cheese


Politicians kissing babies is cheesy.


----------



## malt junkie (20/8/16)

Blind Dog said:


> This. If climate change is wrong and we try to do something about it, the worst case scenario is that we might slow or pause economic growth. If climate change is right and we do nothing, we're fucked. Not fucked as in Australia losing the ashes again (I'm a POM, it's an ancient English law that I have to mention it), but fucked as in gone, done, dusted, sayonara human life on earth. Personally, I don't give a shit who's right, but I'm voting for the party who understand what at stake.


Climate change won't get the chance to wipe us out there's a bloody big asteroid only 150 years off hitting us, that'll do the job admirably.

Keep up!

Ed: Yes I know: sodium Perc. Possibly looks like next weekend :unsure:


----------



## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

That insipid sack of shit we have for a prime minister gives a good cheesy grin.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Blind Dog said:


> If you like cheddar, if you get the chance, visit and try the real stuff. The milk is from grass fed cows that live on limestone escarpments, and it creamy, minerally with a sharp, lactic twang. Still reckon it's sacrilege to call anything but cheddar from Cheddar, cheddar.


This stuff was imported from England


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> That insipid sack of shit we have for a prime minister gives a good cheesy grin.


What would Putin do...?


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## LAGERFRENZY (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What would Putin do...?


Jalapeño Gorgonzola with Pepper Crackers washed down with lashings of RIS?


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

mmm... I am kinda warming to Putin ( in a non climatic way )


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## wobbly (20/8/16)

Blind Dog said:


> This. If climate change is wrong and we try to do something about it, the worst case scenario is that we might slow or pause economic growth. If climate change is right and we do nothing, we're fucked. Not fucked as in Australia losing the ashes again (I'm a POM, it's an ancient English law that I have to mention it), but fucked as in gone, done, dusted, sayonara human life on earth. Personally, I don't give a shit who's right, but I'm voting for the party who understand what at stake.


First it was "Global Warming" and when this was found to be unsustainable as an argument it became "Climate Change" and now because of the inability to adequately explain the the "so called pause" in predicted temperature rise over recent times there is another shift in terminology to "Climate Disruption" 

The issue appears to be that because the "Scientists" are unable to make the "Science" fit with their "Hypothesis" they are shifting the goal posts to represent something else so as to be able to maintain the hype about their predictions of impending catastrophic global temperature change. 

Because there hasn't been an increase in the global temperature in the past nearly 20 years (acknowledged in the 5th IPCC Report) the "Scientists" are now of the view that this unexpected "Pause" in temperature rise is due to the heat being stored at the bottom of "Deep Oceans"!! This seems to fly in the face of proven "Science" that even in water heat rises.

I'm not a denier of rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere as "Science" can measure that I'm just not convinced that the "Scientists" hypothesis based on Global Climate Models which can't be validated and don't support their predictions that rising CO2 levels will have significant impact on current/feature weather patterns 

Politicians, Bureaucrats, and the like will have us believe that we can change "The Weather". Hello!!! 

Wobbly


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> *Because there hasn't been an increase in the global temperature in the past nearly 20 year*s (acknowledged in the 5th IPCC Report) the "Scientists" are now of the view that this unexpected "Pause" in temperature rise is due to the heat being stored at the bottom of "Deep Oceans"!! This seems to fly in the face of proven "Science" that even in water heat rises.


Stupid NASA...always getting it wrong and manipulating the data


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## manticle (20/8/16)

Inverted comma usage is strong with this one. Please provide some actual data to support your "hypothesis" that it's all "made up"


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Yes

Which "Scientists"...and which "pause"

They may well be a pause in the rising of temps, but they have still risen ...so kind of makes the argument less valid. 

The pause may be due to the land mass & the ocean getting to equilibrium, but it still does not mean that the earth has not warmed


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> I'm not a denier of rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere as "Science" can measure that


So do you deny that the earths mean temperature has risen ?. Because if you dont deny it, can you please explain the how the correlation between CO2 levels and temperature rise


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## drsmurto (20/8/16)

The pause is related to Wobblys intelligence. It paused at the age of 6.

Confirmation bias plus lacking the basic ability to understand the request from many of us to provide some evidence.

You would fit in well with the 'Democratic Australians' Facebook page I'm currently having debates with.


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## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

The only major problem is, most of us know its happening but will not do anything about it, Little Billy wants to implement the ETS and then everyone will be bleating about the high cost of electricity.


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## LAGERFRENZY (20/8/16)

Like me many voters were pissed off when Rudd backflipped on the ETRS - hell even a lot businesses were supportive of having certianty there. If Turnbull had the courage and vision to present new ETS legislation it would get bipartisan support and sail through both houses. He won't do it because it would weaken his already fragile hold on the leadership by antagonising the Rabbit Rabble. The public just want to see someone Do Something.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

But the public dont want Abbott...and MAL knows that...he is fucked if he does, and fucked if he doesnt


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)




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## LAGERFRENZY (20/8/16)

Better to die on your feet than weep on your knees. Crash or crash through. Mal please just grow a pair.


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## wobbly (20/8/16)

Maybe my intelligence paused at age 6 then again just maybe it didn't.

I can't personally provide the evidence you request but I can suggest that not all the papers freely available are rubbish either. 

I'm sure that this reference will be howled down as being the the work of the deniers and the left rubbish media but it reportedly uses the same data set as used by the IPCC and other "Scientists" as well as including data sets/graphs conveniently omitted from reports and presentations or adequately explained by those championing the predictions as to why the significant differences exist between predictions and actual's

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/04/the-pause-lengthens-yet-again/

Wobbly


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## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

I have wondered why the Ausgrid lease fell through, was it really because Pauline and Nick would have been voting against it? Or was it really because the reason was it was so secret the only person Scott Morrison could relay the reasons to was himself.?


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## drsmurto (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Maybe my intelligence paused at age 6 then again just maybe it didn't.
> 
> I can't personally provide the evidence you request but I can suggest that not all the papers freely available are rubbish either.
> 
> ...


Of course you'll be howled down as that is not evidence. It's a blog FFS. Do you even understand what evidence is? Your confirmation bias is impressive. It's like arguing with my 5yo daughter.


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## SBOB (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Maybe my intelligence paused at age 6 then again just maybe it didn't.
> 
> I can't personally provide the evidence you request but I can suggest that not all the papers freely available are rubbish either.
> 
> ...


could you perhaps personally provide some peer reviewed proof then, rather than just some guys blog?

and anything posted by that guy should be excluded instantly (or faster)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley

"Lord Monckton is a living symbol of the fact that many climate change contrarians will believe anything that seems to support their case, even if it’s coming from the most ridiculous source"

The same guy who
- claimed to have developed cures for Graves’ Disease, AIDS, Multiple Schlerosis, the flu, and the common cold
- claimed to be a co-recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Al Gore and the IPCC
- claimed to be a a member of the U.K. House of Lords (the upper house of Parliament) when he isnt
- made up data on atmospheric CO2 concentration and global mean temperature that he claimed were IPCC predictions. The CO2 projections were similar to the real ones, but significantly corrupted, and the temperature projections were the product of inputting the corrupted data into an equation not meant for this purpose

etc etc etc
https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/lord-moncktons-rap-sheet/

He's a flat out upper class British nut job


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Mockton isnt even a Lord FFS...


Dispute over membership in the House of Lords
Monckton asserts that the House of Lords Act 1999, that deprived him of a hereditary seat, is flawed and unconstitutional. In 2006 he referred to himself as "a member of the Upper House of the United Kingdom legislature" in a letter to US Senators,[51] and has said he was "a member of the Upper House but without the right to sit or vote."[52] The House of Lords authorities have said Monckton is not and never has been a member and that there is no such thing as a non-voting or honorary member of the House.[6][37]
In July 2011 the House of Lords took the "unprecedented step" of publishing online a cease and desist letter to Monckton from the Clerk of the Parliaments, which concluded, "I am publishing this letter on the parliamentary website so that anybody who wishes to check whether you are a Member of the House of Lords can view this official confirmation that you are not."[28][29]


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I have wondered why the Ausgrid lease fell through, was it really because Pauline and Nick would have been voting against it? Or was it really because the reason was it was so secret the only person Scott Morrison could relay the reasons to was himself.?


It was an "on electric' operational matter


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## manticle (20/8/16)

He does have a diploma in journalism though as well as a BA in classics so.....


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> I can't personally provide the evidence you request but I can suggest that not all the papers freely available are rubbish either.


RRIIIGGGHHHTTTTTTT.....OOOKKKKAAAAYYYY

So your saying that you cant provide evidence, 
Almost a conspiracy theory h34r:


Yep, that is science 101


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## wobbly (20/8/16)

Discounting the link I provided as just a blog FFS without commenting on the details and graphs contained which have been produced from a supposedly reputable data source doesn't make sense. 

Do you disagree with the methodology used to produce the graphical representation showing that the models predictions are overstated at times by a factor of up to 3.

It is common knowledge that consultants, researchers etal will produce reports/data in a form that supports their case (or what the client wants to hear). Take Stu's NASA graph and change the vertical scale and the difference can very quickly become background noise of little or no significance on the overall presentation 

All I'm trying to suggest is that because of these consistent over statements of what is actually occurring in the real world compared to the predictions we must have reservations about what the longer term outcome will be.

This is developing into a pissing competition and I'm not going to change your perception and neither will you change mine. If/when the models can be shown to be accurate in their prediction then I will reconsider 

Wobbly


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## Vini2ton (20/8/16)

Back to the cracked pepper crackers. Like many politicians, they appear to be something they're not. The stuff you think is cracked pepper is in fact poppy seeds. So is Paulines concern for Australians, poppycock.


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## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> It was an "on electric' operational matter


Meaning?


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Discounting the link I provided as just a blog FFS without commenting on the details and graphs contained which have been produced from a *supposedly reputable* data source doesn't make sense. 



 wobbly said:


> Discounting the link I provided as just a blog FFS without commenting on the details and graphs contained which have been produced from a supposedly reputable data source doesn't make sense.
> 
> Rather that data from an actual refutable source
> 
> ...


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Meaning?


 Only ScoMo cant answer that...or maybe not


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## manticle (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> Discounting the link I provided as just a blog FFS without commenting on the details and graphs contained which have been produced from a supposedly reputable data source doesn't make sense.
> 
> Do you disagree with the methodology used to produce the graphical representation showing that the models predictions are overstated at times by a factor of up to 3.
> 
> ...


The fact is wobbly that monckton has been shown (well documented) to be a liar, to falsify evidence, misinterpret evidence and use sources that actually openly negate his dogmatic stance. He also has absolutely no scientific qualifications whatsoever and has conducted no experiments, nor published reputable peer reviewed papers of his own.
That's why he has absolutely no credibility and reposting a blog that contains lots of graphs does not make him (or you) have anything other than a weak argument that comes down to 'well I think....'


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Back to the cracked pepper crackers. Like many politicians, they appear to be something they're not. *The stuff you think is cracked pepper is in fact poppy seeds*. So is Paulines concern for Australians, poppycock.


Proof...?


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## Dave70 (20/8/16)

manticle said:


> Plain vs pepper


Chicken salt, obviously.

_Euuuuu_...stop *swamping* me..


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## SBOB (20/8/16)

wobbly said:


> It is common knowledge that consultants, researchers etal will produce reports/data in a form that supports their case (or what the client wants to hear). Take Stu's NASA graph and change the vertical scale and the difference can very quickly become background noise of little or no significance on the overall presentation



its a linear scale.. what do you want us to change it to?

what if we make it a temperature range of 0-100c, then the entire temperature change for all measured time will effectively be zero
you're right, its a f*cking conspiracy


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## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only ScoMo cant answer that...or maybe not


Goes along way in supporting Coalitions argument for ChAFTA first chance they get at implementing it they knock it back, along with all the jobs it would have created.


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## Vini2ton (20/8/16)

It's on the packet.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Goes along way in supporting Coalitions argument for ChAFTA first chance they get at implementing it they knock it back, along with all the jobs it would have created.


Why would it have created jobs...?....they where sackimg them all not long back...

And would it have been only the Chinese that would have been able to create these so called jobs


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Dave70 said:


>


That there is a politician in the making


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## manticle (20/8/16)

What, the sausage?


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## Vini2ton (20/8/16)

I've got one of those chafta job recipients living next door. About 20 years old, no English, out the door on sunday at 7.30 in his hivis. Australia good country.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

Just behind the girl to the left of the peacock

The camera man is actually filming that person, not Paulines ass


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## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Why would it have created jobs...?....they where sackimg them all not long back...
> 
> And would it have been only the Chinese that would have been able to create these so called jobs


All the jobs in infrastructure, and while we are on the subject of railway employees, I told you they earned to much money, its the same in the UK.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1586641/railway-worker-receives-letter-claiming-he-owes-hmrc-14-trillion-in-income-tax/


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## goomboogo (20/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Why would it have created jobs...?....they where sackimg them all not long back...
> 
> And would it have been only the Chinese that would have been able to create these so called jobs


Don't go down this particular rabbit hole. It's full of excrement.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

goomboogo said:


> Don't go down this particular rabbit hole. It's full of excrement.


Yes
...I just read WEALS reply


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> All the jobs in infrastructure, and while we are on the subject of railway employees, I told you they earned to much money, its the same in the UK.
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1586641/railway-worker-receives-letter-claiming-he-owes-hmrc-14-trillion-in-income-tax/


Yes, but why is it that only the Chinese can bring this on.....


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## drsmurto (21/8/16)

wobbly said:


> This is developing into a pissing competition and I'm not going to change your perception and neither will you change mine.
> 
> Wobbly


This is the very reason why I, along with many people commenting in this thread, think you're a card carrying member of the Nutjob society. 

I've stated numerous times that like all scientists, my mind can be changed with evidence, whilst your mind (or at least what passes for a mind) is closed. This is the very definition of confirmation bias.

QED.


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/8/16)

I am but a simple tradesman, and even I follow what scientists do.Sometimes the things you try dont work, so you try different method. Not every method is set in stone and sometimes you jyust get it wrong

Sometimes on the job the result isnt what was expected,


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## wide eyed and legless (21/8/16)

Cheer up the antibiotic apocalypse might save the world from climate change.


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## JDW81 (21/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Cheer up the antibiotic apocalypse might save the world from climate change.


Probably not soon enough to save us from Pauline though..


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## Bridges (21/8/16)




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## Liam_snorkel (21/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Cheer up the antibiotic apocalypse might save the world from climate change.


Nah too late. Regardless, it's a impending crisis


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## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

And you would not to be thought of as a flippant dick about it as well:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/immigration-minister-peter-dutton-caught-joking-about-the-effect-of-climate-change-on-pacific-islands-20150911-gjkf0z.html


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## madpierre06 (22/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> And you would not to be thought of as a flippant dick about it as well:
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/immigration-minister-peter-dutton-caught-joking-about-the-effect-of-climate-change-on-pacific-islands-20150911-gjkf0z.html


Calling blokes such as Dutton and the like 'flippant' is too bloody complimentary for my liking...these have no consideration for other people whatsoever, just nasty pieces of work.


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## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

madpierre06 said:


> Calling blokes such as Dutton and the like 'flippant' is too bloody complimentary for my liking...these have no consideration for other people whatsoever, just nasty pieces of work.


To b fair MP I did also call him a dick!


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## Liam_snorkel (22/8/16)

This got a sad chuckle out of me:

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/view-from-the-street/how-can-the-nation-make-peter-dutton-feel-happy-again-20160819-gqwp2s.html


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/8/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> This got a sad chuckle out of me:
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/comment/view-from-the-street/how-can-the-nation-make-peter-dutton-feel-happy-again-20160819-gqwp2s.html


bahahaha

And this is why this column is calling for a public awareness campaign to expose the suffering of Peter Dutton.
Show your solidarity with our offshore detention schemes by putting your unwanted human beings out the front of your house, and get some hashtags trending to raise awareness of how hard Peter Dutton has it. #pray4duffer and #putoutyourhumans are a good start, but surely you can do better.


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## wide eyed and legless (22/8/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Nah too late. Regardless, it's a impending crisis


2,400 Coal fired power stations under construction and in the pipeline, the north of England experiencing another gas industry boom with the trillions of cubic meters of shale gas, drilling exploration has found, either no one gives a shit or everyone is having an overdose of that emotion,'Hope'. Hope for the best that nothing will happen.


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## Dave70 (22/8/16)

I dunno about Dutton, but I guess this should Julia feel better. 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/rspca-pulls-julia-gillard-dog-toy-off-shelves-20160822-gqxze9.html


I dont get it. Abbot got one, Julia got one. Thats the very _definition_ of equality. 

*The RSPCA was hit with criticism on social media, and from several women's equality groups after it emerged the caricatures of Australia's first female prime minister were being sold for $20.*

What, to cheap?


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## Dave70 (22/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> 2,400 Coal fired power stations under construction and in the pipeline, the north of England experiencing another gas industry boom with the trillions of cubic meters of shale gas, drilling exploration has found, either no one gives a shit or everyone is having an overdose of that emotion,'Hope'. Hope for the best that nothing will happen.


Does that include the one a week China is building? 
I know they lead the world in renewable energy, but theres only so many gorges you can dam before the county starts to resemble Ha Long Bay.


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## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

Some good points in this one:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/rendezview/the-worrying-rise-of-the-armchair-expert/news-story/27af779b6c6101478685adef6f818d98


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## RobW (22/8/16)




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## Dave70 (22/8/16)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Some good points in this one:
> 
> http://www.couriermail.com.au/rendezview/the-worrying-rise-of-the-armchair-expert/news-story/27af779b6c6101478685adef6f818d98


The problem(s) with programs like Q & A is it's basically a current affairs discussion show that inevitably morphs into an unstructured debate. In a formal setting, the likes of Roberts would exhaust their knowledge base within minutes and be exposed as the ignoramuses they are. 
But I suspect a formal debate would to heavily tax the attention span of of the hash-tagging dolts who cant wait to see their incisive tweets on the telly for three seconds.


_Who benefits apart from the ratings? _

24 pages and counting..


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## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

Roberts still managed to expose himself as an ignoramus despite the shortcomings of the show's format.


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## Liam_snorkel (22/8/16)

the trouble is if they made the show more like SBS Insight (single issue, guests are experts or stakeholders), there would be no place for the likes of Hanson or Roberts on it, and ABC would be accused of editorial bias.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/8/16)

Australia's Parliament


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## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

If it ever gets around to sitting again


----------



## Vini2ton (22/8/16)

Is that George Brandis in the second row?


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## wide eyed and legless (22/8/16)

It does actually look like him, I wonder who has his hand up his arse?


----------



## lost at sea (22/8/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Australia's Parliament


Animal.....the greatest!

Bronnie (chopper) B in the back row


----------



## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

Brandis clearly faces charges of Impersonating a Muppet


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## Dave70 (22/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Is that George Brandis in the second row?


Sat next to Al Grasby.


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## Vini2ton (22/8/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> It does actually look like him, I wonder who has his hand up his arse?


Multinational corporates and any other slimey arsehole who reckons he can make a quid out of the Australian tax-payer.


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## LAGERFRENZY (22/8/16)

Bigots Rights Activists


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## goomboogo (22/8/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Is that George Brandis in the second row?


It could be Arthur Sinodinos. Same shit, different arsehole.


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## pcmfisher (23/8/16)

Dave70 said:


> I dunno about Dutton, but I guess this should Julia feel better.
> 
> http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/rspca-pulls-julia-gillard-dog-toy-off-shelves-20160822-gqxze9.html
> 
> ...


Goddamit.
$20? That's a disgrace.
I paid more than that for my two Droolia toys.
I have them sealed in some vacuum bags waiting for the huge jump in value as collectors' items. 


Just like Duff Beer......


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## Dave70 (31/8/16)

Senator Hanson.
On point as usual..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764397/Pauline-Hanson-claims-Muslims-cheating-welfare-having-four-wives-numerous-children-housing-commission-homes.html?ito=video_player_click


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## Liam_snorkel (31/8/16)

SQUOT TORLET


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## Dave70 (31/8/16)




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## pcmfisher (31/8/16)

4 wives? They _should_ be paying you.


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