# Saison Extract Recipe



## muthead (11/1/12)

Hi Guys,

Im looking at brewing a Saison in the garage given the ferm fridge is full. I have searched for recipes but all I seem to be able to find are AG recipes. I will be doing an extract recipe.

Ill be honest and say that I cant remember drinking a Saison at all, which I will rectify this evening. Always willing to try new styles, and with a free fermenter and high temperature now is the perfect time.

Would someone be kind enough to suggest a good extract recipe or point me in the direction of somewhere I might find one?

Appreciated,
Mut


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## manticle (11/1/12)

Pale malt extract, wheat malt extract, a small amount of dex to make up the total fermentables (eg not extra) noble hops or strisselspalt.

Bitter between 25 and 40 depending on taste, later hops if you feel like it (I think they work well)

Main thing is the yeast - WY 3711 and 3724 I have used and been happy with. Ferment warm/hot (especially the 3724 - minimum 28-30), be patient

Pretty much any extract recipe can be translated to AG if you can steep specialty grains.


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## muthead (11/1/12)

manticle said:


> Pale malt extract, wheat malt extract, a small amount of dex to make up the total fermentables (eg not extra) noble hops or strisselspalt.
> 
> Bitter between 25 and 40 depending on taste, later hops if you feel like it (I think they work well)
> 
> ...




Thanks Manticle, I have heard that people add honey, coriander or orange zest as well? Does this go into the boil or straight into the fermenter?
Happy to steep grain, which grains would be the way to go?


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## Nick JD (11/1/12)

If I were to do an extract saison, I'd boil enough hops of any kind to give 25 IBUs and put 4kg of LDME (21L) into a fermenter and add water and 3724. 

It's a yeast-driven beer, you can tart it up all you want but the yeast is the boss.


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## manticle (11/1/12)

@muthead: I don't use spices in my saisons. If I did, I would add them at the last 10 mins of the boil but the right yeast is crucial (as Nick points out) in giving the profile, including the spice (although some hops can contribute in that area too).

As for steeping grain - I mention that mainly in relation to you being able to convert AG recipes to extract. For me a simple, basic saison requires only pale malt and wheat malt and you can get those as an extract brewer (and need to mash them if they are grains) so don't worry about spec grains for this.


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## Toper (11/1/12)

All good suggestions from Manticle and Nick,My addition to the discussion is that if you use the 3724 be prepared for it's habit of slowing right down in fermentation at around the 1035/1030 mark,if you wanna wait 8/9 weeks for it to finish,great,if not then a common practice is to add a neutral yeast (ie:1056) as the initial fermentation slows down,4/5 days,In my experience this shortens the primary to about 10/12 days to get to a final og around 1005/6 .I'd keep any specialty grains to a minimum to maximise fermentability and get a light body.My 2c .


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## muthead (13/1/12)

Thanks all for your suggestions. 3724 sounds like the yeast to be used and temperature to be kept +30c.

What split of Pale Malt & Wheat Malt would be the go, 50/50 or would you weight differently?

Cheers,
Mut


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## Rina (14/1/12)

I'm interested in doing this as well since the weather is going to be heating up. Doing a search here http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/cant-wait-...-saison-186641/ and looking at the links they seem to recommend using plain sugar to dry it out.


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## manticle (14/1/12)

muthead said:


> Thanks all for your suggestions. 3724 sounds like the yeast to be used and temperature to be kept +30c.
> 
> What split of Pale Malt & Wheat Malt would be the go, 50/50 or would you weight differently?
> 
> ...



Personal tase. My current saison batches use just under 1:4 wheatils. Tony's recipe (recommended by many - look here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1307 ) uses about 1:3 wheatils.

Historically saison is pretty diverse in its range of flavours etc but the simplest ones work best to my palate.

3711 will work cooler and makes a nice drop too (if you think you'll struggle with the 3724)


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## muthead (14/1/12)

So after everyone's feedback and suggestions I have come up with the following:

3kg LDME
700g Dry Wheat Malt
200g Dextrose
80g Saaz @ 60
40g Saaz @ 30
3724 or 3711 (TBC)

4 litre boil. OG 1.063 FG 1.011 and IBU of 30.

Any major flaws there?

Thanks,
Mut


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## Nick JD (14/1/12)

muthead said:


> So after everyone's feedback and suggestions I have come up with the following:
> 
> 3kg LDME
> 700g Dry Wheat Malt
> ...



Looks good. Watch out though because it'll be very hard to tell what the FG should be (it could end a bit higher than an AG Saision with all that LDME), so any FGs you think of might not be FG - if that makes sense.

Could end at 1.012 ... or 1.002. If you're bottling, this is an issue, as it can crawl at the end so slow you may think you're at FG.


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## Bizier (16/1/12)

I recommend the 3711 to finish the ferment, especially as your extract will generally be less fermentable than an AG wort. That yeast is fuggin' ape! It will totally whip your FG into shape quick smart. It will cost more than US05, but it will attenuate more also, and driness is critical to a saison.

I suggest doing a mini-mash with some good pils malt to give a little fresh grain profile, you won't have to do much other than make a porridge and hold it between 60-70C for 30 mins and separate with a colander or whatever, but it might give it that extra bit you are looking for.


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## Rod (16/1/12)

120 grams of hops seems a lot

I do not mind a hop beer 

last batch was fat yak with

15g Cascade hops @10min
15g Nelson Sauvin hops @10min
15g Nelson Sauvin hops @0min
15g Cascade hops dry hop

which was as hoppy as I would like

bearing in mind this recipe is with saaz

will it be much stronger in hop flavour


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## manticle (16/1/12)

Nelson sauvin is typically 2-3 times higher in aa% than saaz.


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## Rod (16/1/12)

manticle said:


> Nelson sauvin is typically 2-3 times higher in aa% than saaz.




Been reading since posting , better the other way around

cascade seems to have a similar aa% to saaz

nelson as you say

in my fat yak the boil time for the hops were a lot less @ 10 mins for 1/2 the hops with the remainder being at flame out and dry hopped 
so extraction would be less I assume

suppose I suck it and see

thanks


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## muthead (16/1/12)

Rod said:


> 120 grams of hops seems a lot
> 
> I do not mind a hop beer
> 
> ...



I wouldn't think it will be a "stronger" hop flavour, just a "different" flavour. The hops you have added above are for flavour/aroma, the hops in this recipe are for bittering to hit the ideal IBU.

And like Manticle said the AA% is a lot lower than NS.


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## muthead (16/1/12)

Bizier said:


> I recommend the 3711 to finish the ferment, especially as your extract will generally be less fermentable than an AG wort. That yeast is fuggin' ape! It will totally whip your FG into shape quick smart. It will cost more than US05, but it will attenuate more also, and driness is critical to a saison.



Bizier do you mean use the 3724, but if (and when) fermentation sticks then I should add the 3711 to get her finished?

Cheers,
Mut


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## muthead (16/1/12)

Just put this down, but used 3711 as my LHBS had no 3724.

I shall share progress as it comes to hand. 

Thanks all for your suggestions and advice.

Mut


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## muthead (20/1/12)

muthead said:


> Just put this down, but used 3711 as my LHBS had no 3724.
> 
> I shall share progress as it comes to hand.
> 
> ...



Hi Guys,

This has been down for 5 days now and it didn't look like there was much happening. Clearly, the action must have been happening when I wasn't in the room! I took a gravity reading today and it was 1007 - the target FG was 1011. It has been at 28-30c throughout, so like Bizier said the 3711 has really whipped her into shape! Is this normal??

I'll take readings over the next couple of days and if she stays consistent I'll rack to prime, then bottle. 

Is it worth CCing this brew, or better just to bottle and leave for a month or 2?

Cheers,
Mut


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## Rina (20/1/12)

On the Wyeast page it http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=199 says 18-25C?

Have you had a sample?


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## Rod (20/1/12)

Mut ,

did you strain the hops out when you added to the fermenter

just making sure 

just got the 3711 yeast in starter ( so I can keep some to use later ) and going to boil to morrow


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## manticle (20/1/12)

The 3711 works much quicker than the 3724 and doesn't need 30+ temps to make it work.

However this yeast can dry things right out (When I've used it, I've got down to 1006 but that's also with a low mash temp) so keep an eye on whethe it moves at all in the next few days.

Yes I think it is worth cc'ing pretty much every beer with the possible exception of a hefeweizen but I would leave the beer at ferment temps a bit longer to condition and allow the yeast to work its reabsorption magic. It's had its little party, now it's time to clean the kitchen, loos and windows before the folks get home.


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## muthead (20/1/12)

Rina said:


> On the Wyeast page it http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=199 says 18-25C?
> 
> Have you had a sample?



Yep, it tastes fine. I did see that but my LHBS said that with any Saison yeast it will happily work higher.


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## Rina (20/1/12)

Cool.


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## muthead (20/1/12)

Rod said:


> Mut ,
> 
> did you strain the hops out when you added to the fermenter
> 
> ...



I did indeed!! 




manticle said:


> The 3711 works much quicker than the 3724 and doesn't need 30+ temps to make it work.
> 
> However this yeast can dry things right out (When I've used it, I've got down to 1006 but that's also with a low mash temp) so keep an eye on whethe it moves at all in the next few days.
> 
> Yes I think it is worth cc'ing pretty much every beer with the possible exception of a hefeweizen but I would leave the beer at ferment temps a bit longer to condition and allow the yeast to work its reabsorption magic. It's had its little party, now it's time to clean the kitchen, loos and windows before the folks get home.



Thanks - around 1 week CC be enough do you think?


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## manticle (20/1/12)

fine


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## Rod (6/2/12)

muthead said:


> So after everyone's feedback and suggestions I have come up with the following:
> 
> 3kg LDME
> 700g Dry Wheat Malt
> ...




made the above brew

I would prefer the alcohol content to be closer to 5%

I used used the kit extract brew designer and reduced Ldme , wheat extract , and dextrose proportionately to


2.1kg LDME
.5 kg Dry Wheat Malt
.15 kg Dextrose


leave the hops as is

should this work


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## Rina (6/2/12)

I used a similar recipe:
2 kg LDME
0.5kg WDME
0.25 kg Raw Sugar

40g or 50g EKG @ 60
5g EKG @ 30

My recipe didn't reach the 'Saison style' OG but I wanted something more sessionable like you did. From the fermentor the hop bitterness is pronounced so I'd probably dial back the hops back (unless you like it hoppy) since we don't have the amount of malt the OP had.


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## Rod (6/2/12)

Rina said:


> I used a similar recipe:
> 2 kg LDME
> 0.5kg WDME
> 0.25 kg Raw Sugar
> ...




I used Saaz hops which is milder AA% of 4 compared to the EKG AA% of 5 so may not get the same bitterness 

In my first batch I used more water , but the bitterness was pleasent


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## Rina (6/2/12)

Just a cautionary tale.


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