# Best Kit Ive Had For Ages



## Swinging Beef (3/3/09)

I ran out of beer over Christmassacre, and needed to restock quickly.
Ive been adding to my AG brews progressively, but to help restock quickly, turned to some kits, based on the recommendations of this forum.
For those who havent tried before, give this a whirl...

Coopers Mexican 1.7kg
1kg dex
500g wheat malt

Fist full of Chonook or other high alpha for three days in the 2ndary, some gelatine.
Whatever ale yeast trub you have lying around.

Amazing.
Its bright, clear, sparkling and a great summer beer at around 4.7% onb 21 litres, Im real bloody happy.

Gonna buy it again when I have more ferment space and try it with a belgian yeast the same way!

Im just so pleased to have a 'golden' kit from c***s prove to be so drinbkable


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## Bribie G (3/3/09)

I remember you saying that you had cleaned yourself out over Christmas. It's amazing what you can do with a kit and dex plus some bits. My regular 'fake lager Melbourne Bitter wannabe' brew is a dead simple Coopers Lager plus a kilo of dex plus a 5L cube of wort (I do a full AG well hopped brew with Pride of Ringwood, BSaaz etc and split it into four little NC cubes).

Good ale yeast, have been using Notto but will try US - 05 for next brew.

Costs six bucks per wort, ten for the kit if I can get it on special, two fifty for the dex and maybe I should factor in fifty cents for the yeast - less than twenty dollars for a malty hoppy pleasant beer that IMHO is superior to most megaswills on tap at the pub. 

Like yourself I gelatine it, and polyclar it, so it turns out crystal clear. Funny I was thinking of using a Cerveza for the next kit because the Cooers Lager actually contributes a bit too much POR bitterness for the style and I'm after aroma more than anything. 

Bottled the latest version last night, the best yet. One advantage of crash chilling then bottling is that you can have some long smooth pulls of the cold crisp new beer whilst bottling :lol:


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## under (3/3/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> I ran out of beer over Christmassacre, and needed to restock quickly.
> Ive been adding to my AG brews progressively, but to help restock quickly, turned to some kits, based on the recommendations of this forum.
> For those who havent tried before, give this a whirl...
> 
> ...



Maybe US-05 or SO-4.

How do you store the rest of the wheat malt. Since it comes in a 1.5kg tin. Or are you able to get dry wheat extract??


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## Swinging Beef (3/3/09)

under said:


> Or are you able to get dry wheat extract??


Yeah, mate.. its dry. It just hangs around in the cupboard till I finish it. I try to have a kg or more on hand at any time to resolve efficiency issues as I am still very much a learner at the whole AG thing.


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## Swinging Beef (3/3/09)

BribieG said:


> I remember you saying that you had cleaned yourself out over Christmas...
> 
> Like yourself I gelatine it, and polyclar it, so it turns out crystal clear.


WHat is Polyclar and what does it do?
THis beer is "VB" clear.
I reckon I will have this on hand forever for my "dont like your farkn homebrew" drinkers.
I decanted it to jugs on the weekend and they crapped on about how much better jugged thooeys new is than straight from the bottle.
I love them comments!


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## under (3/3/09)

Where do you get the dry wheat malt extract from in the gong?


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## under (3/3/09)

Polyclar - http://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=726


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## bowie in space (4/3/09)

> Whatever ale yeast trub you have lying around.


 
Sorry if this sounds silly, but does this mean you can ferment at 18-20C? I thought cervesa required lager yeast and lower temps. 

Also did you not have any hops in the primary? Just dry hop into secondary?

Sounds like a nice n cheap refreshing brew. Thanks S Beef  

Bowie


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## Swinging Beef (4/3/09)

bowie in space said:


> Sorry if this sounds silly, but does this mean you can ferment at 18-20C? I thought cervesa required lager yeast and lower temps.
> Also did you not have any hops in the primary? Just dry hop into secondary?
> Sounds like a nice n cheap refreshing brew. Thanks S Beef
> Bowie


I have no temp control, so Im fermenting at whatever the temp is under the house in Wolongong!
Best to stick to ales in summer on this basis.
So.. yeah.. it was a big slurry of S05 american ale left over from the last double IPA.
Yes.. you can ferment whatever you want in whatever way you want.
I very much doubt this brew I made tastes anything like what coopers intended, and I think that is why Im so excited about it.
It has a bit of body.. more than a VB but less than a Golden Ale
It is mildly bittered... like a pilsner
Malt flavours are very mild and the Chinook hop aroma is just hanging over the top to help mask any extract pong or flaws in hot summer fermentation.


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## Swinging Beef (4/3/09)

under said:


> Where do you get the dry wheat malt extract from in the gong?


Woonona


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## Bribie G (4/3/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> WHat is Polyclar and what does it do?
> THis beer is "VB" clear.
> I reckon I will have this on hand forever for my "dont like your farkn homebrew" drinkers.
> I decanted it to jugs on the weekend and they crapped on about how much better jugged thooeys new is than straight from the bottle.
> I love them comments!



:lol: 
Polyclar, added to cold conditioning beer, removes the stuff that causes chill haze by clumping it together 'electrically'. I think it works on positive ions as opposed to gelatine that works on negative ions or maybe it's the other way around :huh: 

In the case of the brew that you did, it probably doesn't have a chill haze because the beer kits are quite efficiently mashed and boiled - that's what Coopers etc do for a living - and produce a nice clear beer.

I find that using Light dried malt extract, and also many of my AG beers - are chill hazed to buggery. I started using Polyclar when I struck the LDME problems and it cleared the beer nicely.
In the case of the AG, I'm probably getting unwanted stuff coming over from the boil. With UK bitters I'm drinking at 13 degrees so I don't bother Polyclaring them. 
However with the light coloured lagerish brews I do Polyclar and end up with a nice clear ice cold beer.

It's cheap as chips and totally neutral if you drink any. In fact they use it as an ingredient in many pills like Nurofen etc so you have probably eaten some yourself.


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## bowie in space (9/3/09)

I'm gonna try this recipe out on friday using my coopers mexican kit i got for $5. Yes that's right five bucks! Still in date til may next year!

So, i'm interested in the actual process. Did you boil the kit Mr Beef? When did you add the sugars and hops? I've never done gelatine too, how does that work? At my LHBS it comes in a 1 ounce pack for $5.95. Is that an ok price? Do you use the whole lot?

Cheers
Bowie.


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## Bribie G (9/3/09)

Mackenzies gelatine from Woolies is about $4.50 for a 100g tub that makes a nice storage container. A tub will do you at least twenty brews. A heaped teaspoon dissolved in warm sterile water and stirred into the brew during secondary, or at the very end of primary, or even into the bucket if you do bulk priming. 





Edit: I think an ounce is about 30 grams. You are being charged six times too much  Also 'one ounce' sounds like it's a USA product. Avoid mad cow disease (it's made from hooves and horns) and buy local.


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## chappo1970 (9/3/09)

bowie in space said:


> I'm gonna try this recipe out on friday using my coopers mexican kit i got for $5. Yes that's right five bucks! Still in date til may next year!
> 
> So, i'm interested in the actual process. Did you boil the kit Mr Beef? When did you add the sugars and hops? I've never done gelatine too, how does that work? At my LHBS it comes in a 1 ounce pack for $5.95. Is that an ok price? Do you use the whole lot?
> 
> ...



Swingbeef is a cracking brewer and I did this one so I can tell ya it's a ripper and it is simple. :beerbang: 

This is what I did so maybe SB might swing in (pun intended :lol with his version? I did it with Morgan's (I think? May have been cooper's?) liquid wheat malt. Just tipped the Cooper's 1.7kg can of goop in plus, half the can of liquid wheat malt extract goop straight after it, filled fermenter to the usual 21lt mark. No need to boil using liquid malts they are sterilised. Pitched rehydrated S05 when at 18C. Threw in some cluster hops I had hanging around. Fined when racking to second vessle. Easy. It was brilliant and completely drinkable.

No need to buy the LHBS stuff as it's just plain gelatine like what you can get at the supermarket. Search for Gelatine here's a [topic="21879"]linky[/topic]

give it go it's a good one!

EDIT: BribieG beat me again that's the stuff to get.


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## bowie in space (9/3/09)

I don't have a fridge set up yet, so does gelatine still work ok in ambient temps? I read Chappo's link and it suggests gelatine is a great additive when you crash chill in the secondary...

Bowie


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## Bribie G (9/3/09)

bowie in space said:


> I don't have a fridge set up yet, so does gelatine still work ok in ambient temps? I read Chappo's link and it suggests gelatine is a great additive when you crash chill in the secondary...
> 
> Bowie



Ambient is fine, the gelatine doesn't care


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## Swinging Beef (10/3/09)

bowie in space said:


> So, i'm interested in the actual process. Did you boil the kit Mr Beef? When did you add the sugars and hops? I've never done gelatine too, how does that work? At my LHBS it comes in a 1 ounce pack for $5.95. Is that an ok price? Do you use the whole lot?


This was one of the quick extract restock beers (I made three) because I ran out over Christmas and have been working most days since school holidays finished.

So.. no boil.
Just boil the kettle to disolve the goo and mix all the stuff together and then bottle as soon as done.
Supermarket gelatine is the cheap way to go.

I just did another on the weekend but this time used Belgian Abbey II yeast for a more stinky aroma.
:icon_drool2: Mmmmm... stiiiinky.


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## bowie in space (10/3/09)

Just got some gelatine today  
The same one Bribie G posted above, gonna try it on my aussie bitter this friday.
First attempt at secondary fermentation. It will have been in the primary for 5 days by that stage, so it should be about the right time.

Might even try to save the yeast off the trub too  
That'll be another first, although i should really start reading up on this subject.
I'm not too fond of paying $5 every time i pitch.

Cheers
Bowie


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## chappo1970 (10/3/09)

bowie in space said:


> Just got some gelatine today
> The same one Bribie G posted above, gonna try it on my aussie bitter this friday.
> First attempt at secondary fermentation. It will have been in the primary for 5 days by that stage, so it should be about the right time.
> 
> ...



Sounds like someones been bitten by the HB bug, huh? :icon_cheers: 

Go on ya for givin' it a go! Honestly you won't regret it one bit and once you've done it you will wonder why you didn't do it before? To be honest I don't think about it much any more I just set up the gelatine and rack to secondary fermentor as a matter of course.

Now understanding yeasties is something I am investing my time in ATM. There is a truck load of information and opinions on the subject. It's never ending this brewing learning curve...


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## bowie in space (10/3/09)

Yeah too right chappo, bitten big time. Especially when you taste something you think is alright B) 

Seems like an absolute mountain to climb to get to understand everything, and all funds considered i wanna move into AG by the end of the year.

Thats if i can convince SWMBO it's worth it. Trouble is she's a massive beer drinker herself, (i know that sounds odd) but she knows when i've brewed a shit beer. So the more good ones i can churn out the better for me  .

Cheers 
Bowie


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## hoppinmad (12/3/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Fist full of Chonook or other high alpha for three days in the 2ndary, some gelatine.
> Whatever ale yeast trub you have lying around.




I've got a bunch of different leftover hop pellets such as saaz (5%AA), perle(6%AA) and amarillo(8%AA), how much of those would I need to add to get a similar result?

Also, I have temp control so would you say a lager yeast fermentation could be the go?


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## bowie in space (22/3/09)

7 days into this brew and about to dry hop. Tastes good out of the fermenter. 
I have a 40g packet of nelson sauvin and 40g of chinook, how much do i need to dry hop?

Just gonna unscrew the lid and chuck 'em in. Don't know why i feel nervous about this. Maybe because i fear losing that layer of co2 between the top of the brew and the lid?
Again don't know why...

I want to try leaving in primary the whole stage through, so this means opening lid again at the end of fermentation to add gelatine finings anyway.

Comments welcome as always

Cheers
Bowie


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## under (23/3/09)

15g will do. Whats hops have you used already in the brew?

I would use the nelson sauvin out of the two suggested. Open chuck in, seal up. leave for a few days, then on with the show.


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## Swinging Beef (23/3/09)

I chose chinook.
Greatest amount of AA for the smallest volume of green.
So whatever you got that is higest AA.


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## under (24/3/09)

Dry hopping is for aroma. And hardly any AA will be extracted. 

Sauvin is great, nice aroma. Nice flavour.

Use whatever you have already used in the brew.


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## MagooMan (20/4/09)

Thanks Beef !
Just cracked the first tallie of this and its fuggen awesome ! To make something this drinkable for so little money . And I would quite happily pay 5 bucks a bottle or glass in a pub . 

Just wondering tho, has anyone tried a flavour addition for hops ? I tried a 15 min boil of 15grams of Amarillo and couldn't really decide if there was a better choice for a flavour addition . Still seemed a bit tart in terms of taste; however silly amateur me is having trouble distinguishing between wheat malt (?) , the passionfruit flavour elements of Amarillo ( ?? ) or kit twang ( ???) for this . More hops , longer boil time ?.... . But the chinook was an awesome call...thanks beef


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## tdack (20/4/09)

MagooMan said:


> Just wondering tho, has anyone tried a flavour addition for hops ? I tried a 15 min boil of 15grams of Amarillo and couldn't really decide if there was a better choice for a flavour addition . Still seemed a bit tart in terms of taste; however silly amateur me is having trouble distinguishing between wheat malt (?) , the passionfruit flavour elements of Amarillo ( ?? ) or kit twang ( ???) for this . More hops , longer boil time ?.... . But the chinook was an awesome call...thanks beef



I quite like Amarillo dry hopped in secondary. My golden ale types usually have about 15 to 20 gms in secondary for about a week before being kegged.



bowie in space said:


> Might even try to save the yeast off the trub too
> That'll be another first, although i should really start reading up on this subject.



Saving your yeast is dead easy. Get a couple of sterilised jars (250ml to 500ml tomato paste type jars are good) and just scoop the trub into the jars straight out of the fermenter. Put the lid on, give the jars a quick rinse on the outside and then into the fridge with them.

If you are really keen boil up some water and chill it down in a sealed container. After a couple of days in the fridge decant off the "beer" that will be on top of your yeast, then add in some of your boiled water, shake and put back in the fridge.

When it comes time to brew your next beer you can make a starter (100gms of DME to 1L of water) and use some of your saved yeast to build up a pitchable amount.

Being a bit lazy I usually just pour 100mls or so straight out of the jar into the fermenter and it's off in a few hours.

You can also back-to-back brew and put your next brew straight onto the yeast cake of the one you just bottled/transferred - just make sure that you are not putting hot wort onto your yeasties.


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## bowie in space (22/4/09)

This is the part i'm having a problem with getting my head around. :huh: 



> After a couple of days in the fridge decant off the "beer" that will be on top of your yeast, then add in some of your boiled water, shake and put back in the fridge.


 
I am under the impression the "beer" on top of the "yeast" in your jar as you mention is in fact the suspended yeast itself and the darker matter underneath is dead yeast that needs to be discarded.

You are saying decant the stuff on top (discard?) and add cool boiled water to the darker stuff at the bottom and pitch this?!

Man, i am confused? According to Palmer's "how to brew" you should be getting rid of the darker matter/trub and saving the lighter colured stuff which would be the yeast, would it not?


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## Bribie G (22/4/09)

Not trying to confuse you even further but in my new book by the respected UK brewer Graham Wheeler (Brew Your Own UK Real Ales) he reckons that all the faffing around culturing and saving yeast in special containers etc is fine but his suggestion is either:


Go full time into slants as many on this forum do (in the UK they call them 'slopes') which are sterile test tubes half full of agar gel with a culture of pure yeast innoculated onto the surface or:
do as he does and just bottle off an extra stubby of each brew, preferably with the last runnings out of the vessel which will be a bit more yeasty. Put that away and when you need to do a brew, just culture up that bottle the way you would do with a Coopers Bottle.
In fact he often does an entire brew of bottles just for yeast farming purposes and it keeps him going for a year or more. As he says it's great in theory to save a bit of yeast cake, pitch it into your next brew and find to your horror on tasting the bottled brew a week later that it's developed an infection and thus the new brew is a goner as well. Makes sense to me.

My 2c.
ATM I'm having a bet both ways and keeping a bit of yeast cake in sterilized Schott bottle and don't use it until the previous brew has proved itself worthy B) 

More than one way to skin a cat.


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## chappo1970 (22/4/09)

:icon_offtopic: well kinda
Hey Swingbeef and BribieG!
I reckon ya need to start putting a couple more of your collective recipes in the DB me mate's. I've personally done a few of both of yours now and they are great but it would be good to direct some noobs to the good oil when you boys aren't online, yeah?

2c You can tell me to get farked!

Chappo

Edit: s is for plural?


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## Bribie G (22/4/09)

:icon_offtopic: Sorry to hijack thread, see my Solly Cerveza that we'll be drinking at BABBs tomorrow (I take it you will be there?)

On topic, I'm just about to pitch some rehydrated lager yeast S-23 and have double sanitized the fermenter, scalded out the Schott bottle where it's rehydrating nicely and prayed to the beer Gods so hopefully I'll get a couple of clean generations out of this packet


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