# Bochet



## Dave70 (8/4/14)

Anyone had a crack at this? 
I've tried to pin down a method, but they seem to vary wildly from maker to maker. Some boiling the honey down then adding the water, others adding the water at the start and reducing the lot.
I'm basically looking at doing a 5L batch and having it finish in the 8-12% range. 
I'm leaning toward boiling the honey down to the required color first (see helpful pic) then adding the water to halt the cooking, but I'm unsure with how much to start with.
Any suggestions?


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## Rurik (8/4/14)

I have never made it but a few friends of mince have. When it comes to cooking less is more in my opinion but maybe it is an acquired taste which once you get use to you like the super cooked.


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## manticle (8/4/14)

I have no experience with it but I believe you will have more success googling 'bochet'. There's some threads about it on homebrewtalk and gotmead.com forums.


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## boonchu (9/4/14)

I have done a few bochet's, and you cook the honey only to start with.
As it darkens the toffee and caramel flavours increase. You can cook it to 
your taste and when your ready take it off the heat and add the water slowly,
preferably with the lid mostly on and wearing gloves and long sleeves as it will
spit at you while adding the water.
Also note that the honey will expand to about 4 times its original volume so you need
a big pot.


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## Danwood (9/4/14)

Very interesting, I'll give this a go soon.

Thanks for posting, Dave.


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## motch02 (9/4/14)

Anyone have a good recipe to share? I have 3kg of honey and I'm tossing up on a Mead or a Braggot


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## Bubba Q (9/4/14)

make sure when you begin to boil the honey you are in some sort of sealed chamber as you will attract million of flying bastard bees.

I had the little buggers streaming in through the skylight last time.


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## TimT (9/4/14)

Oh.... my....

this is a thing and no-one has told me? I blame you all, you bastards!

I'm off to google it myself..... :beerbang:


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## TimT (9/4/14)

So. You boil the honey until it caramelises. I've often wondered if a similar thing can be done with wort/malt sugar, in fact. 

A question arises a question - since in the boil, the 'honey' nature is inevitably lost, and you'll end up with caramelly/fudgy/toffee sugars (depending on how long you boil and how high a boiling temp you aim for), will it actually matter if you _don't_ use honey at all?

Side note 1: y'all should try making fudge. The ingredients are simple and it just requires a bit of temperature control (keeping an eye on the thermometer and not letting it go over 116 degrees C) which, as brewers, you'd be used to. Oh, and the results are delicious.

Side note 2: love to hear if there's a beer style where you try this trick.


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## manticle (9/4/14)

Some people (myself included) will reduce wort separately to a syrup to add back to the main boil. I do this with some UK bitters, Scottish wee heavy and some porters. I have noticed that if I reduce too much, the head on the resulting beer suffers.

There is a thread on it somewhere. Temp of a wort boil isn't enough to achieve actual caramelisation - it's a reduction with colour and flavour developed through melanoidens but it's tasty nonetheless.


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## manticle (9/4/14)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/21386-caramelising-first-runnings/
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/34197-wort-caramelisation/


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/4/14)

manticle said:


> I have noticed that if I reduce too much, the head on the resulting beer suffers.


Now thats interest, got a theory ?
Or is it just oil stuff coming of a cooking pot ?


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## manticle (9/4/14)

Something to do with lipids and proteins but I'd be lying if I pretended I knew.

Others who've pushed it (and I mean sticky toffee syrup - if it's just a dark reduction I notice no negative effect) have suggested similar.


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## Danwood (9/4/14)

Raining today, came home at lunch, started a Botchet !

Gently boiled the Orange Blossom honey for almost 3hrs. First sample is at 0mins and 25mins between each subsequent sample. 
I used 1.6kg honey (same quantities as JAO) in a 10L pot and it really wanted to jump out if the boil got a bit vigorous....hence I only gently boiled it. Don't leave it alone while boiling !

I've added 2 tsp vanilla bean paste and tomorrow, one whole large orange and 2pks re-hydrated bread yeast. Maybe some nutmeg too...dunno, I'll sleep on it. 

Smells incredible. Looking forward to this one.


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## TimT (9/4/14)

_Raining today, came home at lunch, started a Botchet !_

I hope you don't botch it.


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## TimT (9/4/14)

Phwoar thanks for the links Manticle. Sounds mouth-wateringly good. I may not do this soon since most of my runs are quite small but maybe I'll reserve this for a larger run. Could be a fun beer to brew on a weekend in winter.


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## Airgead (10/4/14)

Danwood said:


> and 2pks re-hydrated bread yeast. Maybe some nutmeg too...dunno, I'll sleep on it.


All that effort and you throw bread yeast into it? Really?

Some real yeast will set you back a couple of bucks and give you a predictable result.

Cheers
Dave


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## Mardoo (10/4/14)

Mods, can one of you change the title to Bochet? It's gettin' to me the way bread yeast gets to Airgead. It'll make future searches easier too. 

I look forward to hearing folks results. I'd like to do a bochêt soon. Actually, maybe that's what I should do with that 5k of very crystallized redgum honey! Duh, been thinking about what to do with that for weeks.


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## Danwood (10/4/14)

Airgead said:


> All that effort and you throw bread yeast into it? Really?
> 
> Some real yeast will set you back a couple of bucks and give you a predictable result.
> 
> ...


Myself and many others use bread yeast in batches of JAO mead. It doesn't have any ill effects that I've noticed.

It doesn't taste bready or mask/strip subtle vanilla, orange or spice flavours. I've had the same favorable results in my 5 batches so far.

It does leaves a fair bit of sweetness ( which I like ), so it's either poorly attenuative or the alc is too great, I'd definitely guess the latter. Although the sweetness isn't out of line with that of many commercial meads I've tried. 

I use a bit of Wyeast nutrient too.

I have wondered what it would turn out like with Wyeast 4184 though. Next brew maybe.

I'll report back on this batch.


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## boonchu (10/4/14)

Try Lalvin yeasts, I particularly like D - 47 myself


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## Danwood (10/4/14)

http://meadist.com/mead-articles/best-yeast-for-mead-making/

A bit of info on yeast selection. Lalvin do sound pretty good.


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## Airgead (11/4/14)

71B is my go to yeast for both mead and cider. DV10 is good if I want something higher alcohol.


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## Dave70 (20/4/14)

Thanks for the input men.
Currently on holidays for a couple of weeks.
Or in other words, exploring functional alcoholism as a lifestyle choice.


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## Ronwales (20/11/18)

Danwood said:


> Raining today, came home at lunch, started a Botchet !
> 
> Gently boiled the Orange Blossom honey for almost 3hrs. First sample is at 0mins and 25mins between each subsequent sample.
> I used 1.6kg honey (same quantities as JAO) in a 10L pot and it really wanted to jump out if the boil got a bit vigorous....hence I only gently boiled it. Don't leave it alone while boiling !
> ...


How did this turn out mate ? I'm making one at the moment and a bit concerned about the slow fermentation. Much slower than the jao


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## SKBugs (24/11/18)

Ronwales said:


> How did this turn out mate ? I'm making one at the moment and a bit concerned about the slow fermentation. Much slower than the jao



Have you had a look at TOSNA and BOMM methods of brewing? Claim to be drinkable in a couple of months. I have also made some fantastic session meads in a couple of weeks. Low ABV around 7% but I love drinking a bottle of mead like a cider, rather than sipping like a wine.


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## Ronwales (24/11/18)

SKBugs said:


> Have you had a look at TOSNA and BOMM methods of brewing? Claim to be drinkable in a couple of months. I have also made some fantastic session meads in a couple of weeks. Low ABV around 7% but I love drinking a bottle of mead like a cider, rather than sipping like a wine.


No I haven't actually I'll have to check it out. I'm more into a higher abv though. I've made a jao mead and I'm making a bourbon bochet at the moment can't wait to taste them. It's only been a month so have a while to wait.


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## SKBugs (24/11/18)

That's the problem - the higher the booze the longer the wait for the esters to go. 
Staggered nutrient additions are the go if you want to speed up the brew time.


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## Ronwales (25/11/18)

SKBugs said:


> That's the problem - the higher the booze the longer the wait for the esters to go.
> Staggered nutrient additions are the go if you want to speed up the brew time.


What nutrients do you use . I think I have some dap, but I think that's not recommended for wine.


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## SKBugs (4/12/18)

Sorry mate. I've been busy and didn't check up on this feed. 
I used to use DAP but some smart buggers have been saying that the yeast won't use it pass 9%. So if you do plan on using it, use it at the beginning. I am using the site https://www.meadmakr.com/batch-buildr/ pretty much all the times as it will tell you all the details you need. Great if you don't want to work out for yourself how much your yeast needs. And it's very easy to use too.


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## Ronwales (4/12/18)

SKBugs said:


> Sorry mate. I've been busy and didn't check up on this feed.
> I used to use DAP but some smart buggers have been saying that the yeast won't use it pass 9%. So if you do plan on using it, use it at the beginning. I am using the site https://www.meadmakr.com/batch-buildr/ pretty much all the times as it will tell you all the details you need. Great if you don't want to work out for yourself how much your yeast needs. And it's very easy to use too.


Thanks buddy


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