# Bohemian Pilsner



## kippertaylor (9/2/16)

Hi,
I been asked by a mate to shortly do a bohemian Pilsner for him, I have a wyest 2001 and a heap of saaz hops. For a 20litre batch what grains would you recommend and how big a starter would you recommend. I've never done a lager yet but have temps true controller on brew fridge so would like to give it a crack. Thanks in advance Andy


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## manticle (9/2/16)

grains - either all pilsner, 75% pils: 25 munich (or vienna) or pils with a small dose of caramunich. If not decocting then definitely some munich or vienna.

Yeast - at least twice as much as for the same gravity ale. Do not skimp if you want a good pils. Depending on the yeast health initially I'd say 4-6 L starter.


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## Rocker1986 (9/2/16)

I brewed a Bo Pils recipe a few times last year that contained 95% Weyermann Bo Pils (floor malted), and 5% Munich II. I used a Hochkurz mash schedule on them. Three additions of Saaz hops at FWH, 80 minutes and 15 minutes to ~40IBU, no-chilled (no hop adjustments made). Wyeast 2001 was used to ferment these at 10C, pitched at or close to this temp with a ~4 litre starter (this was crashed in the fridge and decanted prior to pitching). They were fermented using the Brulosophy 'quick lager method'.

These batches all turned out really bloody nice after about 3 weeks in the keg. Nice and crisp and clean and clear, tasted very similar to Pilsner Urquell (which is what I loosely based my recipe on).

Good luck mate, it's a cracker of a style I reckon.


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## Dave70 (9/2/16)

A mistake I've made in the past with Boh Pils was mashing to low in an effort to produce a 'crisp' beer. 67 deg (single infusion) seems to be about where you want to be. Apparently the yeast will do its thing anyway.
A stepped and triple decotion if you want to go really hard. 90 minute boil. D rest (if you do a tradition ferment) for the last couple of days. 
Thats about all I know about pilsner brewing.


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## contrarian (9/2/16)

I recently made a german pilsner which came out well. Made 4 extra litres of wort and decanted them straight into erlenmeyer flasks, 1 litre into a 1L flask and 3L into a 5L flask. Put them in the fermenting fridge at around 9C along with yeast and cube. The 1L starter was poured into the 5L flask after 2 days when there was a good krausen and when that was going well added the full 4 L starter to a fermenter. Took about 2 weeks to almost finish and did a diacetyl rest at 12C until final gravity was stable for 3 days.

Came out incredibly clean.

In terms of grain bill would have to agree with the advice above, keep it simple.


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## Coodgee (9/2/16)

my most recent bo pils was 90% bo pils malt and 10% melanoiden. this malt bill gives a rich malty profile that emulates a decoction mash. I added a total of 180 grams of hops at 60,20,10,whirlpool for 40IBU. I used Munich lager WY2308 because it was what was on hand. tasting it when kegging after 3 weeks in primary, it was very close to an urquell. the secret is the Saaz hops. always and only ever use saaz


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## Rocker1986 (9/2/16)

I have some melanoiden and acid malt to experiment with on my next few batches of it when I get to them in the coming months. Will be interesting to compare.


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## nosco (9/2/16)

I did a step mash ony last pils. 62 for 45 and 72 for 45. 78 mash out. My temp control is non existent so each step dropped 2 or 3 below that with a good stir while rising temps. My best lager so far.


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## Coodgee (9/2/16)

I did a single infusion mash at 68 and a mash out step at 76 in my grainfather


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## Blind Dog (9/2/16)

Last Bo Pils I made was fermented at 18C ambient with S-189 (2 packs hydrated). Lagered for 6 weeks at 3C in the keezer. Tastes good, but not as good as the one I made before that from the exact same recipe, but with WLP800 (supposedly the same as Wyeast 2001) at 10C, which had a softer, more rounded mouth feel. I made a 4L starter for the WLP800 from malt extract, and pitched the decanted yeast.

Recipe was 99% Weymann Pils, 1% acidulated; Stepped mashed at 67C for 50 min, 72C for 20 and 78C for 20. Saaz hops to 40IBU (30IBU at 90min, 10IBU at 15). 2L of unhopped wort removed and boiled down to a 200ml syrup and added back to the boil


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## kippertaylor (9/2/16)

Geez you lot been busy since I last posted, seems lots of option for mash type as well. Confused now, might just pick one and give it a crack on the weekend. Thanks for all the replies very helpful again. Rocker like the sound of what you did just have to figure out what Hochkrurz and Brulosophy means. If a it tastes anything like Pilsner Urquell I'll be happy[emoji106][emoji482]


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## manticle (9/2/16)

Find the common points in the posts above and it will seem less confusing.


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## Rocker1986 (9/2/16)

kippertaylor said:


> Geez you lot been busy since I last posted, seems lots of option for mash type as well. Confused now, might just pick one and give it a crack on the weekend. Thanks for all the replies very helpful again. Rocker like the sound of what you did just have to figure out what Hochkrurz and Brulosophy means. If a it tastes anything like Pilsner Urquell I'll be happy[emoji106][emoji482]


Hochkurz is basically what nosco describes in his post. From memory I did mine at 62C for 50 minutes then up to 70C for 30 minutes before mashout at 78. Here is the link to the lager fermentation method I employ: http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/


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## kippertaylor (9/2/16)

Thanks guys , just been bottling a wheat beer seemed to take me forever. Yeah if I pick up a little from what everyone tells me I'll be fine.


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## Weizguy (9/2/16)

I have enjoyed a Bo/Czech Pils made with 95% Weyermann Bohemian pils malt and 5% Weyermann Carafoam. Lots of fresh Saaz hops, and I used Wyeast W2278 (Urquell D-strain).

Edit: I have a bag of the Floor-malted Bohemian, as I plan to make more, soon. It was so reminiscent of some of my Fave Czech pils : Budvar and Kozel (of 15 yrs ago).


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## kippertaylor (10/2/16)

Getting of topic here a bit but,,Les when I lived overseas until 2 yrs ago had one of my favourite ever wheat beers there in Prague .Fenix was its name was a great drop


.


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## mxd (11/2/16)

remember never ever dry hop with Czech saaz (I'm sure this is just not my opinion  )


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## nosco (11/2/16)

The only time i made i made a bo pils was a double batch of the brewing classic styles recipe. It need 300+ gs of Saaz coz of low aa's. Lucky i made a double batch coz fresh it was a nice pale ale. Loved saaz ever since. Had a nice floral almost perfumy flavour if that makes sense.


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## MartinOC (11/2/16)

From what I've read, Weyermann Bo-Pils is undermodified & needs a decoction (or two)... The alternative is to use straight pils malt + a bit of melanoidin to replicate the decoction process & save yourself the hassle.

$0.02


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## nosco (11/2/16)

I heard it needs a protein rest which i did on my bo pils except i used regular bo pils malt not realising they where different. I think thats why it took a really long time to clear.


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## Rocker1986 (11/2/16)

I had no problems with the Weyermann Bo Pils malt (floor malted variety). No protein rests, no decoctions, just a straight Hochkurz mash and the beers turned out perfectly fine, and the efficiency was fine as well. A little lower than I wanted but nothing in that or the finished beers that would suggest there was any need to get all fancy with the mash schedule.

I had tried doing a full step mash with one batch of it, but the urn fucked up when all the shit released from the grains caked onto the element and it wouldn't heat up. And this was at the acid rest step. I then had to get out the old stock pot, drain some of the "wort" into it, boil it and return it to the urn (did this 3 or 4 times) to bring it up to the mid 60s degrees.

Long story with that batch but it was shit compared to the following ones where I ditched the full step mash and just started it at 62/63. It never cleared up either; I had one bottle in the fridge for 3 months and it was still full of ******* haze, despite the use of isinglass and Polyclar during the cold conditioning period prior to bottling. Its flavour was also way off what I wanted. It tasted like a S&W Pacific Ale of all things. Not bad per se, but not what I want in a Bo Pils.

The later batches all turned out the way I wanted them to when I first compiled the recipe. Much, much better flavour - exactly what I would expect from a Bo Pils. They also cleared up very quickly. All batches were brewed to an identical recipe; the only thing that differed between the shit one and the good ones was the mash schedule. I'm not saying that a full step mash or a decoction can't be done with this stuff obviously, just that I don't think it's necessary to achieve a decent outcome, not because my attempt failed, but because a more standard approach worked really well for me.

I'm no expert of course but based on my experience with it, I don't think this malt is under modified and needs anything more than a single infusion, although I do like doing the Hochkurz schedule in these beers. I am gonna use it with some melanoiden next batch and see what differences appear in the finished beer, and also try a single infusion mash on one batch to see how that goes.


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## Dave70 (12/2/16)

MartinOC said:


> From what I've read, Weyermann Bo-Pils is undermodified & needs a decoction (or two)... The alternative is to use straight pils malt + a bit of melanoidin to replicate the decoction process & save yourself the hassle.
> 
> $0.02


Melanodin wont' replicate decoction, but then again, decoction hardly seems wort the effort anyway - unless you enjoy the process and have a whole Saturday to burn that is. 
According to this bloke anyway.

http://nateobrew.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/triple-decoction-vs-no-sparge.html


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## manticle (12/2/16)

Decoction takes me very little extra time, a bit of stovetop room while the remaining mash does its thing and if boiling malt for 40 minutes doesn't influence the flavour then I'm a snapdragon.

If you were to do a full traditional/historical decoction, that might be a different story but I'll regularly do a 2 stage decoction for altbiers, strong belgians and pils and it's easy and resonably fun if you're a beer brewing nerd who loves the smell of malt in the moorning.


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## Bribie G (12/2/16)

I still have some areas of black shyte on my urn element from attempting a protein rest in 2011.


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## Dave70 (12/2/16)

manticle said:


> Decoction takes me very little extra time, a bit of stovetop room while the remaining mash does its thing and if boiling malt for 40 minutes doesn't influence the flavour then I'm a snapdragon.
> 
> If you were to do a full traditional/historical decoction, that might be a different story but I'll regularly do a 2 stage decoction for altbiers, strong belgians and pils and it's easy and resonably fun if you're a beer brewing nerd who loves the smell of malt in the moorning.


Well, my pretty little flower, if you used _that_ method I can see how the time penalty is minor. But on the first occasion I had a go my knowledge of the process was basically zero, so I consulted the ominisent you tube and basically followed Dawsons method where by you raise / hit the rest temps based on adding back decoction material. Since I don't own one of northern Brewers finely calibrated 'one quart dippers' I had to revert to a more labor intensive ladle from the kitchen drawer. 
I also didn't heed his advise at around 15:16 until it was far to late. 
T'was a long day and I was of little use for anything by the end. 
Fully agree though the malty aroma of bubbling malt is olfactory comfort food. Like boiling a big rich stout is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIQPQmELWPo


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## mattfos01 (12/2/16)

manticle said:


> Decoction takes me very little extra time, a bit of stovetop room while the remaining mash does its thing and if boiling malt for 40 minutes doesn't influence the flavour then I'm a snapdragon.
> 
> If you were to do a full traditional/historical decoction, that might be a different story but I'll regularly do a 2 stage decoction for altbiers, strong belgians and pils and it's easy and resonably fun if you're a beer brewing nerd who loves the smell of malt in the moorning.


Did my first decoction, a double, on a Czech pale lager a couple of months ago. Surprisingly easy and didn't drag things out noticeably. It was a bit weird taking mash out of a braumeister to put it in a pot on the stove but.....


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## manticle (12/2/16)

Dave70 said:


> Well, my pretty little flower, if you used _that_ method I can see how the time penalty is minor. But on the first occasion I had a go my knowledge of the process was basically zero, so I consulted the ominisent you tube and basically followed Dawsons method where by you raise / hit the rest temps based on adding back decoction material. Since I don't own one of northern Brewers finely calibrated 'one quart dippers' I had to revert to a more labor intensive ladle from the kitchen drawer.
> I also didn't heed his advise at around 15:16 until it was far to late.
> T'was a long day and I was of little use for anything by the end.
> Fully agree though the malty aroma of bubbling malt is olfactory comfort food. Like boiling a big rich stout is.
> ...



I promise the way I do decoction is much less painful than watching that video.


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## nosco (15/12/17)

Now that I have my Smartpid running in the Guten Im gonna step mash the shit out of it. Starting with a bo pils or 2. Sunday hopefully. Last week or some thing I was reading on the BYO website about a bo pils step mash. Between now and then BYO have gone pay per veiw so they can bite me.

It started with a protein rest or something lower temp. Then it had a rest at 66c and then one at 72c!?!?! I was going to go with a hochkurz. I still might but I was wondering what other kind of mash steps I could be doing with a bo pils.

No im not keen on a decoction at this point in time.


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