# New Diy Coopers Kit



## philw (23/11/10)

I got an email from Coopers and they are updating there Home Brew kit by the looks 

part of the email 


> Inside is a new, patented fermenter that makes brewing even easier and quicker, and a new easier to read plastic hydrometer, specifically made for beer, that won't break if you drop it. Plus a new DVDROM to answer all your brewing questions.


 
here is the link http://www.diybeer.com.au/

lol no more Paul Mercurio


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## earle (23/11/10)

Looks like they're switching to a pail type fermenter.

Linky


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## philw (23/11/10)

earle said:


> Looks like they're switching to a pail type fermenter.
> 
> Linky









that a good or bad thing ??


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## Rodolphe01 (23/11/10)

Looks like they are also avoiding the word 'Homebrew'.


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## MHB (23/11/10)

There has been talk around the trade about a new Coopers fermenter for about a year, apparently its all very hush-hush and its supposed to be something a bit out of the ordinary.
Havent seen anything to get too excited about yet, but have to wonder if there is more going on than meets the eye, be hard to get a patent on a better bucket!

MHB


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## Lodan (23/11/10)

Looks like a fresh start from a marketing point of view.


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## InCider (23/11/10)

Word on the street is that the new kits are better than AG, so I'm going to take the punt and pre-order the new kits and the more versatile fermenter.


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## drew9242 (23/11/10)

InCider said:


> Word on the street is that the new kits are better than AG, so I'm going to take the punt and pre-order the new kits and the more versatile fermenter.



Which street did you hear that from??


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## manticle (23/11/10)

philw said:


> lol no more Paul Mercurio



Lol good or lol bad?


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## Silo Ted (23/11/10)

philw said:


> lol no more Paul Mercurio





manticle said:


> Lol good or lol bad?



Philw, you know Paul's a member here at AHB, right? 



MHB said:


> There has been talk around the trade about a new Coopers fermenter for about a year, apparently its all very hush-hush and its supposed to be something a bit out of the ordinary.





InCider said:


> Word on the street is that the new kits are better than AG, so I'm going to take the punt and pre-order the new kits and the more versatile fermenter.



Yea, how many better ways can there be to make a plastic bucket !? Its surely a cutting edge technology with that new barrel of theirs. Personally I would have added a red stripe down the side for faster fermentation.


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## Rodolphe01 (23/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Yea, how many better ways can there be to make a plastic bucket !? Its surely a cutting edge technology with that new barrel of theirs. Personally I would have added a red stripe down the side for faster fermentation.



How much faster do you want to ferment than at 27 degrees


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## stux (23/11/10)

earle said:


> Looks like they're switching to a pail type fermenter.



You mean switching back 

I switched back to pail fermenters too, the carboys suck for cleaning.

Now I just pop a bung in my bucket, and clean everything INCLUDING THE LID in the bucket 

Did you notice there doesn't appear to be an airlock? No more gloop gloop gloop?


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## StewTurner (23/11/10)

It also looks like the starter kit will come with BE1 instead of the kilo of dextrose that mine came with last Christmas. That's a nice change, I reckon.


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## manticle (23/11/10)

To be fair coopers website does offer slightly better and more detailed instructions than the kit pamphlett. I can't say the same for tooheys home brew site.


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## Silo Ted (23/11/10)

Rudi 101 said:


> How much faster do you want to ferment than at 27 degrees



32 ! :super:


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## Shed101 (23/11/10)

InCider said:


> Word on the street is that the new kits are better than AG, so I'm going to take the punt and pre-order the new kits and the more versatile fermenter.



Yeah I thought I saw you 'hangin' out' on the street ... corner :lol: 

You look good in your biker outfit.


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## bignath (23/11/10)

and here i was thinking that the only bucket you could use for brewing was the green ones....

learn something new each day i 'spose!


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## philw (23/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Philw, you know Paul's a member here at AHB, right?




well I do now B) 


I have no issue with Paul at all 

the thing with the DVD for me was the Chick in it looked like she is not really a beer drinker at all and would rather a wine over a Pale Ale


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## mwd (23/11/10)

philw said:


> the thing with the DVD for me was the Chick in it looked like she is not really a beer drinker at all and would rather a wine over a Pale Ale



I got a VHS tape with mine but never had a machine to play it on. Still use the tape as a wedge below the fermenter to get the last 2 litres out of the tap.


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## Rodolphe01 (23/11/10)

ah that old vhs, takes me back to when i didn't even know you could make homebrew (or DIY Beer...) without a can.


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## Lecterfan (23/11/10)

The old coopers vhs is gold "alcohol is important as it helps make the beer taste like it should and it helps you relax" (not verbatim but very close). Mmmmm alchohol helps your significant other to be less inhibited when it really matters...Before I crack out my old-school Coopers bucket I ensure the beard is shaved down to a handle bar mo, the stubbies shorts are on and the thongs are close at hand. "Don't worry about the cloudiness, thats just the yeast"...I really must advise having a few beers and watching the old coopers video, it is classic Aussie know-how.


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## Silo Ted (23/11/10)

Tropical_Brews said:


> I got a VHS tape with mine but never had a machine to play it on. Still use the tape as a wedge below the fermenter to get the last 2 litres out of the tap.



Until the last few posts, I didnt even know there was a video instruction on those coopers sets. Nice to see the tape housing has provided some worth. 

Was Paul Mecurio in the Coopers video's ? And did he *dance *?  

Sorry Merc, if youre reading - but Im going to post this because youre the only bonafide star that I have picked out of the bunch. Tho I think Bum might be Chopper Reid B)


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## AussieJosh (24/11/10)

I got the kit maybe around 2005?? came with the VHS tape then, and yeah i agree and have always said the chick in it never even looked like she liked beer!
So Paul Mecurio is a member here? what is his user name? when was he last active?


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## peas_and_corn (24/11/10)

Mercs Own is his username


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## bum (24/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Tho I think Bum might be Chopper Reid


Nah, I can spell.

Not sure what the dig at Mercs is about - did your missus have a thing for him after Strictly Ballroom and you hold a grudge?


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## peas_and_corn (24/11/10)

bum said:


> Nah, I can spell.
> 
> Not sure what the dig at Mercs is about - did your missus have a thing for him after Strictly Ballroom and you hold a grudge?



I don't know about him, but when I contacted him and asked him if he would like to celebrate the premiere of Mecurio's Menu by co-signing a mortgage with me, I heard nothing!


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## Thunderlips (24/11/10)

AussieJosh said:


> So Paul Mecurio is a member here? what is his user name? when was he last active?


A quick search shows that Mercs posted last Monday.
So he does still pop in every now and then.

I wonder if he still makes that peach ale?


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## earle (24/11/10)

Mercs mostly active on the threads involving food. Has a food/beer book coming out next fathers day.


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## Pennywise (24/11/10)

Those new Coopers fermenters look like a bucket in a bucket


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## Phoney (24/11/10)

So are plastic hydrometers any good? (as far as accuracy is concerned)


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## Pennywise (24/11/10)

I can't see why they'd be any different to glass ones accuracy wise


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## bum (24/11/10)

Pennywise said:


> Those new Coopers fermenters look like a bucket in a bucket



"Yeah, I BIAB. And I don't even need a coffee grinder!"


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## .DJ. (24/11/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> So are plastic hydrometers any good? (as far as accuracy is concerned)


I think these are be a great idea.. I dont think there is anyone who has been brewing for a while that hasnt dropped (or had someone drop) their hydrometer...

I would certainly buy one next time mine gets dropped...


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## SunyJim (24/11/10)

I for one think they may have put a lot of thought into this. 
I see the people in this hobby making due with wine making equipment that is poorly suited to beer making. 
The glass carboys are difficult to clean, difficult to do things like add a bag of hops for dry hopping, and quite often just too small and krausen foam overflows out the airlock
The plastic buckets are cheap but have huge drawbacks too. That sharp right angled edge at the bottom is just asking to hold bacteria to ruin a batch, and the opaque plastic means, who knows what's going on, without opening up the fermenter. And the soft plastic just scratches too easily.
The original Coopers fermenter had a large opening, so dry hopping and cleaning was easy, the plastic was still a little soft but better than the buckets. The partially see through sides and clear lid were good for seeing what's going on inside. And all the corners were curved to prevent bacteria from catching in the corners.
Now there new fermenter, maybe the bottling spigot will be a better design, course threads would be easier to attach and clean, I see more clear plastic for better visibility. They've said a plastic hygrometer rather than breakable glass, and brew enhancer2 instead of suger will definatly make a better first batch than the suger.


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## bum (24/11/10)

At the risk of being called a cynic I guarantee the motivation for the new fermenter is production cost. If they cared enough to invest in a new design to improve the beer they'd stop telling people to ferment at 28C. 

Not saying for a second the new fermenter won't get the job done.


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## .DJ. (24/11/10)

bum said:


> *At the risk of being called a cynic* I guarantee the motivation for the new fermenter is production cost. If they cared enough to invest in a new design to improve the beer they'd stop telling people to ferment at 28C.
> 
> Not saying for a second the new fermenter won't get the job done.



 really, you? a cynic?


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## MarkBastard (24/11/10)

So what are peoples thoughts on what the bucket will actually be?

Perhaps a way to remove the trub before bottling?


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## jonocarroll (24/11/10)

SunyJim said:


> I for one think they may have put a lot of thought into this.
> I see the people in this hobby making due with wine making equipment that is poorly suited to beer making.
> The glass carboys are difficult to clean, difficult to do things like add a bag of hops for dry hopping, and quite often just too small and krausen foam overflows out the airlock
> The plastic buckets are cheap but have huge drawbacks too. That sharp right angled edge at the bottom is just asking to hold bacteria to ruin a batch, and the opaque plastic means, who knows what's going on, without opening up the fermenter. And the soft plastic just scratches too easily.
> ...


I'll ask for forgiveness for my cynicism too, but a first post 20 minutes after joining the forum, to discuss this matter with such high praise? h34r: Suspicious is all.

I would think it's a minority of brewers using wine-making equipment in lieu of brewing equipment. Glass carboys are still a bit rare.

On the matter of the new fermenter, I would love to think that the bucket is built in two pieces with a gap for inserting cold water or ice to bring the ferment temperature down to something that will actually make good flavours in the beer.

On an entirely different matter, completely unrelated, absolutely tangential, I think that if the marketing folks at Coopers are interested in our opinions, they should sign up as 'CoopersMarketing' and, I dunno - ask us.


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## earle (24/11/10)

SunyJim said:


> I for one think they may have put a lot of thought into this.
> I see the people in this hobby making due with wine making equipment that is poorly suited to beer making.
> The glass carboys are difficult to clean, difficult to do things like add a bag of hops for dry hopping, and quite often just too small and krausen foam overflows out the airlock
> The plastic buckets are cheap but have huge drawbacks too. That sharp right angled edge at the bottom is just asking to hold bacteria to ruin a batch, and the opaque plastic means, who knows what's going on, without opening up the fermenter. And the soft plastic just scratches too easily.
> ...


I'm actually a bit confused by your post. You suggest that coopers have put a lot of thought into this new fermenter then go onto detail how the old fermenter was superior and how the new one has so many disadvantages. :huh:


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## bum (24/11/10)

QB, searching for his username on Google (eventually) points you to the Coopers board. Asked a handful of elementary/intermediate k&b questions - that's about it. I'd be surprised if he ended up being a Coopers spook. Just a bit of a fanboy, I'd say. Nothing wrong with that, SunyJim - they largely make respectable products and I hope this continues with the new kit. Welcome aboard, btw.


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## JestersDarts (24/11/10)

earle said:


> I'm actually a bit confused by your post. You suggest that coopers have put a lot of thought into this new fermenter then go onto detail how the old fermenter was superior and how the new one has so many disadvantages. :huh:



It is a bit ambiguous, but i think that sunyjim wasn't slagging the new fermenter, but speculating on its possible new features, while taking into account all the pros/cons of previous designs.


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## joshuahardie (24/11/10)

Maybe the new bucket design is actually a plastic conical..


Nah.. dreamin


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## argon (24/11/10)

From what i can make out it looks like a bucket with another half upside down bucket wedged in the top... if that makes sense. 

Getting rid of the airlock might halve the traffic in AHB too h34r:


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## bill_gill85 (24/11/10)

Could it be that the fermenter is a two piece airlock, with the main fermentor bowl having a double rim to fill with water & the lid is an inverted bowl placed between the two rims?


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## felten (24/11/10)

water filled rim would be a bit of a bug trap wouldnt it


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## bill_gill85 (24/11/10)

felten said:


> water filled rim would be a bit of a bug trap wouldnt it



It could be... I wouldn't have thought so if its designed properly. I thought I'd seen this design incorporated into a stainless conical.



If it works its a very smart design, no lid o-ring or airlock grommet for nasties to hide in. I'm not about to jump ship though, I like my tall narrow plastic drum fermenter. Next fermenter for me will hopefully be stainless.


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## ekul (24/11/10)

I got a stainless steel fermenter that has a lid that is an airlock, the lid fits into a double rim and the rim is filled with sanitiser/water. I don't think it has any advantages over a traditional airlock to be honest.
However, having this kind of setup would negate all the 'is my airlock bubbling' as its impossible to not get a good seal.

I've never used the stainless fermenter as a fermenter, i've used it for biab but at 67L its a sqidge too small.


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## peas_and_corn (24/11/10)

So if this is the case, will we have 'why isn't my lid bubbling?' threads?


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## ekul (24/11/10)

No we will get heaps of "I poured hot wort into my fermenter and when it contracted it pulled a heap of sanitiser into it, is it alright?" instead.


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## InCider (24/11/10)

Shed101 said:


> Yeah I thought I saw you 'hangin' out' on the street ... corner :lol:
> 
> You look good in your biker outfit.




Thanks Shed. I hope it matches with my new Coopers "Leather Man" perpetually bubbling airlock.


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## stux (24/11/10)

.DJ. said:


> I think these are be a great idea.. I dont think there is anyone who has been brewing for a while that hasnt dropped (or had someone drop) their hydrometer...
> 
> I would certainly buy one next time mine gets dropped...



Reminds me of the hackey sack experience I had with my latest hydrometer the other day...

made the baby cry 

didn't break it tho 

the hydrometer that is...

baby was in my arm...

plastic hydrometer = good


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## stux (24/11/10)

ekul said:


> However, having this kind of setup would negate all the 'is my airlock bubbling' as its impossible to not get a good seal.



Which'd be why they've invented an unbreakable hydrometer...

so new coopers diy beer will be fully fermented... maybe they're going to suggest "ferment until its done for diy beer" as opposed to homebrew 

Don't tell the newbies about bubbling airlocks and tell them only about hydrometers... and you get better beer 

Better Beer made with Better Ingredients... it can only be good...

and if there is a water bath at the bottom... whcih helps cool the beer... that can only be good too.


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## MHB (26/11/10)

Ok I admit to being just a touch surprised, maybe flummoxed not to mention bemused.
http
://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...p;locale=en_EP
MHB


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## MarkBastard (26/11/10)

Guess you can't use heat belts then :-/


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## MeLoveBeer (26/11/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Guess you can't use heat belts then :-/



Nor ice blocks to keep the temp down or any other means of heating or cooling... (even a fermenting fridge would mean a minor difference in temp between the top and bottom)

Interesting concept, but not really practical.


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## bum (26/11/10)

So...instead of "my airlock isn't bubbling" we're going to get "my usb cable won't plug into my fermenter"? :huh: 



> In further aspects of the present invention, a computer readable medium and computer program element for directing a programmable device to perform the steps of the above method are also provided.


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## MeLoveBeer (26/11/10)

Scratch my last comment... sometimes it pays to keep reading before posting.

_The apparatus may optionally also include a temperature control means (not shown) to allow for some degree of heating or cooling of the brew._


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## KGB (26/11/10)

Why can't you use heat control? According to the link: "if the vessel is kept at a constant room temperature, stratification may not occur, and the present invention may not identify end of fermentation as reliably as might be desired. Therefore, if the ambient temperature is close to the brew temperature (e.g. within 3 K), a technique referred to herein as "active probing" is used in this embodiment to create heat flow, and accordingly create stratification if fermentation has finished."

So you can use heat control but will need a 3 degree difference between ambient and fermenter temp. If this is not the case then you can use their "active probing" technique which is basically heating for 15min to create the temp difference then the stratification should occur.

In any case, I'm not sure how any of this is easier for the n00bie than the "2 stable readings over 24hrs" method. Plastic hydrometer seems good although I assume it would be more sensitive to variations from the calibration temperature.

My kit came with the VHS cassette, it was on special and I think I may have got one of the last batches before the DVD version came supplied. It took me a while to find someone with a VCR so I could watch it!


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## goomboogo (26/11/10)

Well, I can just go and throw my new plastic hydrometer. Won't be needing that anymore.


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## SunyJim (27/11/10)

Just a newbie brewer and a Coopers fan so far, not a member of the company. Been reading the forum for a few months, thought I would sign on and share my opinion.
I'm in Canada, and everybody up here is using either glass carboys or cheap plastic pails, what are they using to brew beer where you are then if not glass. I did a lot of research before I bought my gear, and was quite impressed with the original fermenter design. Now I've only done 4 batches of beer so far, but I'm still happy with the decision and other than the threading on the spigot the design is better than my local home brew shop alternatives.



QuantumBrewer said:


> I'll ask for forgiveness for my cynicism too, but a first post 20 minutes after joining the forum, to discuss this matter with such high praise? h34r: Suspicious is all.
> 
> I would think it's a minority of brewers using wine-making equipment in lieu of brewing equipment. Glass carboys are still a bit rare.
> 
> ...


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## Hatchy (27/11/10)

.DJ. said:


> I think these are be a great idea.. I dont think there is anyone who has been brewing for a while that hasnt dropped (or had someone drop) their hydrometer...
> 
> I would certainly buy one next time mine gets dropped...



My hydrometer is made out of kriptonite so I've had the same one since 1998 when I got my starter kit. I feel a bit ill when I use it but I survive.


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## manticle (27/11/10)

SunyJim said:


> I'm in Canada, and everybody up here is using either glass carboys or cheap plastic pails, what are they using to brew beer where you are then if not glass.



Many Aussie homebrewers use this kind of arrangement







Some use glass, better bottles etc. I have a few glass demijohns but use them for beers that need long term storage - funked beers and aged beers etc.


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## bill_gill85 (27/11/10)

MHB said:


> Ok I admit to being just a touch surprised, maybe flummoxed not to mention bemused.
> http
> ://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...p;locale=en_EP
> MHB



I would believe that the attached Coopers Patent Dated 2010 would be more relevant. I don't think that I understood all the lingo, but the drawings might be worth a look. There are some good features, but it's mostly reinventing the wheel. 

View attachment WO2010130012A1.pdf


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## SunyJim (27/11/10)

OK so that looks exactly like my original coopers fermenter. 
But everybody in North America are using this






or this 




they seem to be making do with crappy alternatives that are not well thought out for brewing beer.
And they all seem to be so terrified of the yeast going bad autolysis and if they don't transfer then it will spoil the batch in a week or two?! 
That's why I'm here.... you guys seem to leave the beer alone for a few weeks, let it finish, let it settle, then right to the bottles, no constant racking, no glass carboys and siphon tubes, no cheap plastic buckets like restaurants get pickles delivered in.
So far it's been good advice and interesting reading. 



manticle said:


> Many Aussie homebrewers use this kind of arrangement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Silo Ted (27/11/10)

I dont see what the big deal is about 'cheap plastic buckets'. As long as you look after it, clean and sanitize, and it seals well, then theres no problem. I would brew in a garbage can if it could fit in the fridge. 

Glass carboys for regular use just seem like a bit too much hassle. They are heavier, theres always the chance of breakage, cleaning is going to be a nightmare and siphoning might be romantically oldschool, but a plastic spigot and a tube is so much easier. 

It's the brewer, not the vessel, that makes a good beer.


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## jonocarroll (7/12/10)

Reviving this due to some new info. Spotted the new boxes in Big W on the weekend.




Closer inspection (without opening the box unfortunately) seems to suggest that the bucket is a two-piece where the top bit just sits in the bottom bit, perhaps for easier cleaning? There's a loose-fitting lid which may or may not remove the need for an airlock (there doesn't appear to be one supplied) and a strange overly-complicated tap that looks like infection heaven.




It is nice to see a 'brewers log' (though it would be better if it included the missing apostrophe) and hopefully this design is a step-up. I'll reserve opinion until someone gets one open and has a proper look.


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## earle (7/12/10)

From the pictures it looks like the insert increases the height of the fermenter by maybe a couple of inches. I'm trying to figure out what advantage could be gained by doing this by an insert rather than just making the fermenter itself taller? Maybe it will become evident once someone opens one. I looked on the weekend but my Big W still had all old ones.


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## felten (7/12/10)

I hope the new tap is easier to break apart without the leaking issue, could be a good addition.


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## KGB (7/12/10)

earle said:


> From the pictures it looks like the insert increases the height of the fermenter by maybe a couple of inches. I'm trying to figure out what advantage could be gained by doing this by an insert rather than just making the fermenter itself taller? Maybe it will become evident once someone opens one. I looked on the weekend but my Big W still had all old ones.



Would the extra height matter? I'm just thinking you'd save a couple of inches anyway without the airlock.


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## DzRBenson (16/12/10)

anyone able to direct me to a BiG W in Sydney that has the DIY version in stock, all the ones I find only have the old one?

Cheers


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## boots32 (21/12/10)

press release

http://www.microbrewing.com.au/noticeboard...eer-demand.html


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## loftboy (21/12/10)

QuantumBrewer said:


> Reviving this due to some new info. Spotted the new boxes in Big W on the weekend.
> 
> Closer inspection (without opening the box unfortunately) seems to suggest that the bucket is a two-piece where the top bit just sits in the bottom bit, perhaps for easier cleaning? There's a loose-fitting lid which may or may not remove the need for an airlock (there doesn't appear to be one supplied) and a strange overly-complicated tap that looks like infection heaven.
> 
> It is nice to see a 'brewers log' (though it would be better if it included the missing apostrophe) and hopefully this design is a step-up. I'll reserve opinion until someone gets one open and has a proper look.



I'm on hols in sunny Port Macquarie and the local Big W has the new DIY kits on sale for around $74 (about $10 off). Not sure if it's the same price country wide, but worth a look if you're interested in getting one.


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## boots32 (21/12/10)

interesting

http://www.coopers.com.au/the-brewers-guil...;t=2236&p=4


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## adz1179 (21/12/10)

DzRBenson said:


> anyone able to direct me to a BiG W in Sydney that has the DIY version in stock, all the ones I find only have the old one?
> 
> Cheers




Hi Mate,

first post and first time brewing. I got one of these for xmas... but the mrs wont let me open it yet. so i cant really comment. probably wouldnt know what to comment on either as i still dont know much about brewing... this site is a great help though..

anyway, big W tuggerah have them at the moment for $74.... i think Erina has them also for the same price... means a drive up the f3 though..

Cheers!


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## earle (21/12/10)

Some discussion and photos accross on the coopers forum. here

The extension thing at the top of the new fermenter is a krausen collar - provides extra headspace during initial vigorous fermentation and also a double wall which extends down to the brew. When fermentation slows it can be removed, while the krausen ring is still moist it is easier to clean. Not everyone seems to be able to fit it in the fridge with the collar on.

Seems to be a bit clearer plastic so you can see in better.

Appartently the new tap hole doesn't have a thread.


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## felten (21/12/10)

WTB standalone fermenter!


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## notung (22/12/10)

I read the thread from the Coopers forum. They list the dimensions of new fermenter:

FV with Krausen Kollar and Lid: 55cm tall
FV with Lid only: 48cm tall
Lid is 36.5cm across and 40cm at the tabs
Footprint is 25cm x 25cm

I want to hear more about how well the tap goes on without a thread and about the bottom of the interior, which is apparently more 'conical' shaped!


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## levin_ae92 (23/12/10)

felten said:


> WTB standalone fermenter!




+1!!


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## philw (4/1/11)

there FAQ on it as well

I like the look on the new Tap design as well looks easier to clean


http://www.coopers.com.au/the-brewers-guil...with_every_brew?


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## Braumoasta (4/1/11)

I've got the Coopers DIY kit. Being a new home brewer I don't have experience with other fermenter designs, but this one does the job just fine. I've only made one batch so far but the toucan stout I'm putting down this week should put the Krusen Kollar to the test! ^_^ It's also very easy to clean with the wide open top and smooth curves, no tight corners. The clear plastic is also a bonus for me, I like being able to see the fermentation activity :lol:


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## Rudy (19/1/11)

Hi guys,

What capacity are these fermenters, 25L or 30L? I searched online and looked at a sealed DIY kit and didn't note the size. I'm looking for a pail type fermenter, 30L, preferably with spigot. So far I've only seen the 25L ones.


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## Braumoasta (19/1/11)

It has volume markings to 27 litres, and the markings finish about 10cm below the rim of the fermenter (without the Krusen Kollar in place). Sorry, don't know the exact volume...


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## philw (19/1/11)

ordered one last night seeings there was 20% off with online ordered on Coopers site


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## Tanga (20/1/11)

Are they selling the hydrometer's separately as well? I need a plastic one. I've broken 2 in the last few years, and my current one is a bit of a dud.


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## Rudy (20/1/11)

Braumoasta said:


> It has volume markings to 27 litres, and the markings finish about 10cm below the rim of the fermenter (without the Krusen Kollar in place). Sorry, don't know the exact volume...



Thanks for your reply, sounds close enough to 30l to me. I need the extra room for 3086 and the occasional Belgian that blows it's bags


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## philw (20/1/11)

Tanga said:


> Are they selling the hydrometer's separately as well? I need a plastic one. I've broken 2 in the last few years, and my current one is a bit of a dud.




not yet when I looked, this is the same for the Fermenter still


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## Braumoasta (20/1/11)

Rudy said:


> Thanks for your reply, sounds close enough to 30l to me. I need the extra room for 3086 and the occasional Belgian that blows it's bags



No worries with foam. The Krusen Kollar is designed (and from my experience) to handle very high amounts of krusen. When the Kollar is in place it gives quite alot of headroom!


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## Tanga (20/1/11)

philw said:


> not yet when I looked, this is the same for the Fermenter still



=(

A split? I'll take the bottles and the hydrometer and you take the fermenter?


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## gone_fishing_ (21/1/11)

I am wondering,

If you are making beer from kits, why do you need a hydrometer? Is it so the brewer feels that they have some influence over the final product?

GF


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## manticle (21/1/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> I am wondering,
> 
> If you are making beer from kits, why do you need a hydrometer? Is it so the brewer feels that they have some influence over the final product?
> 
> GF




So they learn about fermentation and understand when a brew is properly finished so they don't bottle early and put glass through the eye of their four year old child. 

Was that a serious question?


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## kierent (21/1/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> I am wondering,
> 
> If you are making beer from kits, why do you need a hydrometer? Is it so the brewer feels that they have some influence over the final product?
> 
> GF




And so they can get an accurate alc vol reading.....


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## gone_fishing_ (21/1/11)

manticle said:


> So they learn about fermentation and understand when a brew is properly finished so they don't bottle early and put glass through the eye of their four year old child.
> 
> Was that a serious question?



Yeah it was serious. 

I was under the impression (falsely perhaps) that the only accurate hydrometer samples were those taken prior to fermentation (OG) and when the ferment has completely ceased (ie no bubbles) (FG)

If you bottle because "the hydrometer said so" doesn't mean that your not going to "pop" an eye out. Besides, doesn't the kit come with plastic bottles?

GF


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## gone_fishing_ (21/1/11)

kierent said:


> And so they can get an accurate alc vol reading.....



And a plastic hydrometer is going to be how accurate? 
Most first time homebrewers I know forget to adequately mix the "kit and water" and hence achieve falsely high OG readings and therefore substantially skew their ABV.

Plastic hyrometer has its uses (virtually indestructible) but a refractometer is probably a better investment in the long run.

GF


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## manticle (21/1/11)

The reason you use a hydrometer is, as you suggest, to take the original gravity and the final gravity. Bubbles are irrelevant and should not be relied upon to tell when fermentation is complete.

This is true for any type of brewing - why you singled out kits is a mystery.

A KK brew that uses dextrose will have a different OG and FG to one that uses all malt or a proprietary brewing sugar.

Any yeast can stall or even not begin in the first place. How do you tell if a brew has started fermenting? Krausen, condensation and above all - dropping gravity are the best signs.

Many people buy a fermenter, get a can from the supermarket and brew away so the kits coming with plastic bottles doesn't save people from exploding glass if they don't know what they are doing and if they are using glass. I inherited my dad's old gear and started with glass bttles (still use them). I'm not alone.

Finally - regardless of what vessel you use for your finished beer - plastic bottles, glass bottles or kegs, why wouldn't you want your beer to have finished fermentation before you have put it in there? There are all sorts of reasons besides kaboom that mean allowing ferment to finish is a good idea. Kaboom is a particularly good one though - especially for new brewers.

A hydrometer costs around 15 dollars and can save anything from headaches to eye injuries if you learn to use it properly.

You don't bottle because the hydrometer says so. You bottle because the hydrometer gives you consistent readings within a range that you would reasonably expect represents finished beer. It's an instrument that gives you a measurement. How you interpret that measurement is up to you but without it, there is no interpretation. Just because you misused a hydrometer in your early brewing days, doesn't make the hydrometer a useless instrument.


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## gone_fishing_ (21/1/11)

Good on Coopers for pushing forward in development of simpler and user-friendly introductions to making beer

GF


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## philw (24/1/11)

Tanga said:


> =(
> 
> A split? I'll take the bottles and the hydrometer and you take the fermenter?





lol 


unfortunately not this time as I also wanted the hydrometer and the bottles 


they still have there 20% off sale though on the online store


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## tavas (24/1/11)

Tanga said:


> Are they selling the hydrometer's separately as well? I need a plastic one. I've broken 2 in the last few years, and my current one is a bit of a dud.




Tanga

The only plastic hydrometers I can find are in the order of about $60-70. Given that if you want to measure hot wort they will need to be fairly robust or risk melting.

You may have better luck with the Google.

http://johnmorris.coleparmer.com/catalog/p...ex.asp?cls=2413

Rowe Scientific also do lab stuff and wine making gear, they might have what you want.
http://www.rowe.com.au/cats/catE4web-HL.pdf

Tavas


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## ashley_leask (24/1/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> Good on Coopers for pushing forward in development of simpler and user-friendly introductions to making beer
> 
> GF



Agree, that's how I got started. Something I'd always vaguely wanted to have a go at but thought it was too hard based on the few setups I'd seen with dedicated fridges, kegs, gas, taps etc. I saw one of those Coopers kits and thought "_That's_ all there is to it?" 

That was about 2 months ago, and I now have a dedicated fridge, but anyway...


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## philw (31/1/11)

here are a few picks I took last night


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## MarkBastard (31/1/11)

Cheers, have you tested accuracy of the hydrometer?


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## philw (31/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Cheers, have you tested accuracy of the hydrometer?




they were a little off I am going to test with tap water soon, after talking about it on the coopers forum


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## bignath (31/1/11)

manticle said:


> The reason you use a hydrometer is, as you suggest, to take the original gravity and the final gravity. Bubbles are irrelevant and should not be relied upon to tell when fermentation is complete.
> 
> This is true for any type of brewing - why you singled out kits is a mystery.
> 
> ...



top post Manticle! (as usual)


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## phoenixdigital (13/4/11)

So I have seen alot of comments here about the hydrometer but what about the actual fermenter?

We have recently purchased one of these and there is no airlock which I was surprised at. I have not brewed for many years and thought this may be the new way to brew.

However the first batch we made tastes very very yeasty. We put this down to high fermenting temps.

The second batch I have been informed tonight (as I am out of town) contains FRUIT FLIES!!!!

Is this kit just total crap due to the fact that the lid just rests on the top and doesn't make a perfect seal and there is no airlock?

We have since purchased another fermenter from a brew shop which is the same as I am used to with an airlock etc.. and we are brewing this in a fridge at a constant 18 degress. I hope to god our third attempt works.

I think our first batch was a dud cause we got a bit lazy and only bottled 6 bottles the first week. Then bottled the rest the following week. The second bottling stuff tastes horrid. The first just yeasty and acceptable. My guess is due to no airlock the action of bottling sucked in bad air which tainted the wort which sat for a week before bottling.

The second batch with the fruit flies in it... I have no idea how that happened????

Thinking of ditching this fermenter and just getting another old school one.

What is everyones thoughts on the cooper kit fermenter?


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## bignath (13/4/11)

phoenixdigital said:


> I think our first batch was a dud cause we got a bit lazy and only bottled 6 bottles the first week. Then bottled the rest the following week. The second bottling stuff tastes horrid. The first just yeasty and acceptable. My guess is due to no airlock the action of bottling sucked in bad air which tainted the wort which sat for a week before bottling.



A BIT lazy??

FFS, that's really, really lazy.....

Not wanting to sound like a total prick, but why the hell wouldn't you bottle the whole batch in one go.

It takes me around 30-40mins to bottle a batch. How lazy does someone need to be to find this too much work after putting in all the effort to make the beer in the first batch.

I am honestly perplexed by this. Doesn't matter if you're a K&K or a mash brewer, if you put in the work to make the beer, it's beyond my comprehension to **** it all up at the last hurdle by being too lazy to do it properly.


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## phoenixdigital (14/4/11)

Big Nath said:


> A BIT lazy??
> 
> FFS, that's really, really lazy.....



Agreed and no offense taken... and I apologise to the brewing community here for such a poor attitude to our first brew .... our horrid beer was a lesson learnt. 

However some would give up after such a crap tasting beer but we have persisted.

I am still at a loss of the fruit flies though?

and the question still stands is this fermenter a piece of crap?


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## stux (14/4/11)

phoenixdigital said:


> Agreed and no offense taken... and I apologise to the brewing community here for such a poor attitude to our first brew .... our horrid beer was a lesson learnt.
> 
> However some would give up after such a crap tasting beer but we have persisted.
> 
> ...



I don't know, it looks awesome to me, love the tap

I'm considering getting one... but will probably just get another 25L pail as that will stack with my other buckets.

Bucket fermenters are easier to clean, easier to use and easier to get a good seal.

A lot of folk round these parts use cling wrap on the top of their fermenters instead of a lid+airlock

Re the fruitflies.... did you have the lid on properly? maybe you got one in during preparation?


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## felten (14/4/11)

Fruit flys are attracted to the smell of fermentation, if your lid doesn't sit flush on the fermenter or some other mechanism to stop them, they could get in (I haven't seen the new FVs, so I have no idea).


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## Hammo7 (14/4/11)

phoenixdigital said:


> and the question still stands is this fermenter a piece of crap?



I have got the guy across the road from me into brewing.
He went and got one of the DIY beer kits with the new FV. That thing works fine.
Sampled his first batch and it tasted like coopers home brew.
His wife did the second brew, it also tastes like home brew. I don't know what you're doing wrong (other than the sheer laziness)
These things are piss easy to clean, lid sits on perfect you don't by chance have any kids that might take the lid off?


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## yum beer (14/4/11)

recently added a new coopers fv to my kit, was impressed when I got it home, i was expecting the old style FV,
That said, it works fine, is easy to see whats going on and as said a peace of piss to clean, persist with it.


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## bum (14/4/11)

Big Nath said:


> A BIT lazy??
> 
> FFS, that's really, really lazy.....
> 
> ...


So you're going someone for (albeit accidentally) conditioning his brew?

God damn, this place is awful lately.


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## seamad (14/4/11)

I purchased one of the new fermenters when they first came out, have put quite a few brews through,all fine. Prefer it to my old fermenter as easier to clean. Krausen collar was very useful for imperial stout and some hefe brews as well.
Hydro was a bit out, I cut a bit of the red part off to calibrate, works fine.

sean 


My fig crop was wiped out by fruit fly this year but never had them in my


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## bignath (14/4/11)

bum said:


> So you're going someone for (albeit accidentally) conditioning his brew?




So you're going someone for (quite honestly) pointing out a very obvious error in judgement?

C'mon bum, if you'd read it before me, i'm sure you'd have said much the same thing fella...

No offence was taken by him (as none was really intended). I made my point, he took it on the chin and i'm sure his next batch of beer will be trouble free.

Nath


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## adz1179 (14/4/11)

phoenixdigital said:


> Agreed and no offense taken... and I apologise to the brewing community here for such a poor attitude to our first brew  .... our horrid beer was a lesson learnt.
> 
> However some would give up after such a crap tasting beer but we have persisted.
> 
> ...



ive got one and have had no issues with it  although its the only fermenter i have ever had so cant really compare... and am no expert... made 5 brews so far.. .stuffed up the first one by brewing the included lager kit way too hot.... but that was my fault :blink: all others have been fine...

the only problems i have had with the kit are the plastic hydrometer and tube... the hydrometer reads about 1.006 in tap water... and careful taking wort measurements in the tube... last brew i made the test wort was still a little hot and the tube didnt like it too much... it melted and fell over :unsure:

Also... the kit comes with two plastic white clips that securely fasten the lid to the collar thing.... i just leave the collar on the whole time with the lid clipped on to ensure a tight lid...


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## WarmBeer (14/4/11)

I like the look of that tap, and the way it comes apart to allow full strip-down cleaning/sanitising.

Wonder if there is any way to retrofit it into a standard screw-in for the old style Coopers FV's?




philw said:


> here are a few picks I took last night


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## Amber Fluid (14/4/11)

I have one and have had no problems with it whatsoever. I also prefer it other than the old FV style with the airlocks.

There is less to clean and it is more "user friendly" imo.

As for fruit flies.... you have indicated you have a fridge so why wouldn't you put the Coopers FV in the fridge?... surely there are no fruit flies in there?

I honestly reckon this is a user issue and not the fermenter.


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## earle (14/4/11)

I don't know how but fruit flys get into my fermenting fridge, little buggers will crawl through the tiniest gap. As I use cling wrap its not a problem. Sometimes I make a trap as described elsewhere on the forum by cutting a 1.25L softdrink bottle and adding some cider vinegar or wort but found that it didn't seem to attract them nearly as much as the fermenting wort anyway.


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## Hatchy (14/4/11)

This may be a stupid thing to say but I've never had fruit flies in my beer so I don't know.

Would it be worth using wort instead of the cider vinegar for the trap? It would waste a bit of yr beer but may save the rest of the batch.

If I had insects showing an interest in my fermenters I'd definitely be using a lid & airlock rather than glad wrap. I'll happily use glad wrap to keep bacteria out but for insects I wouldn't trust it.


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## TmC (14/4/11)

I had fruit flies "try" to get into my beer, was scared to spray them so i double bagged so to speak, used the glad wrap and then the lid. I have a new coopers kit btw and i havn't had any problems, i have the old one too.


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## sjcampbell (14/4/11)

Love the fermenter! Easy to clean and I like the way it pulls apart and it doesn't spin in the thread when you try and turn it on and off. I'd really like to buy another one but I don't want the whole kit.

We don't get fruit flies up here in the highlands.

Cheers
Steve


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## ploto (14/4/11)

adz1179 said:


> ive got one and have had no issues with it  although its the only fermenter i have ever had so cant really compare... and am no expert... made 5 brews so far.. .
> 
> the only problems i have had with the kit are the plastic hydrometer and tube... the hydrometer reads about 1.006 in tap water..



ditto on everything up there, except my plastic hydrometer reads 0.993 in tap water.

as others have said it's easy to clean, especially the tap, and it's clear enough you can see the yeastie bits charging around for the first few days, which is kinda cool h34r: .


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## pcmfisher (14/4/11)

Hammo7 said:


> Sampled his first batch and it tasted like coopers home brew.
> His wife did the second brew, it also tastes like home brew.



Is that good or bad?


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## Bribie G (14/4/11)

I'll be sticking with my old barrel style fermenters, the advantages are that taps from Bunnings are only $2 and get replaced a few times a year, plus the top of the fermenter is great for clingwrapping and using the O ring out of the lid to hold the wrap in place. 








After each brew, as part of the napisan / Starsan sanitising procedure I take the tap out, clean out the threaded tap hole then dribble pure Starsan onto the threads and use it like a lube when I put the tap back in, so that area of the fermenter is guaranteed sanitised. 

I guess the taps in the new fermenters would be a bit exxy to replace regularly and it's exactly that spot in a FV that can harbour nasties.


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## earle (14/4/11)

Hatchy said:


> This may be a stupid thing to say but I've never had fruit flies in my beer so I don't know.
> 
> Would it be worth using wort instead of the cider vinegar for the trap? It would waste a bit of yr beer but may save the rest of the batch.
> 
> If I had insects showing an interest in my fermenters I'd definitely be using a lid & airlock rather than glad wrap. I'll happily use glad wrap to keep bacteria out but for insects I wouldn't trust it.



Have tried wort as well but wasn't much better at attracting them. I've had no issues with the cling wrap, it keeps the fruit flies out fine. When I did use an airlock the little buggers got in the liquid in it, probably trying to swim through. I had my wife sew up tiny cloth caps to keep them out but all of that is a PITA. Cling wrap FTW


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## bum (14/4/11)

Big Nath said:


> So you're going someone for (quite honestly) pointing out a very obvious error in judgement?


Yeah, because the error in judgement was in not leaving those first 6 bottles the extra week too. Also I have no idea what you imagine his huge crime is. I read your post and I still don't understand. It will have caused his be zero ill effects at all (assuming we're not talking the 5 week mark here) and the extra time can only have improved the rest.



Big Nath said:


> C'mon bum, if you'd read it before me, i'm sure you'd have said much the same thing fella...


No. I only talk absolute shit when it amuses me.



Big Nath said:


> No offence was taken by him (as none was really intended). I made my point, he took it on the chin and i'm sure his next batch of beer will be trouble free.


Why do you think that? Because he's been "corrected" on a complete non-issue?


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## Amber Fluid (15/4/11)

BribieG said:


> I guess the taps in the new fermenters would be a bit exxy to replace regularly and it's exactly that spot in a FV that can harbour nasties.



I am guessing they would be costly to replace too. However, I would not expect to replace mine for a very long time simply because they are so easy to clean. I don't think the area where the tap connects to the FV will harbour any more nasties than anywhere else. If you have a look at the area it is as smooth as a babies bum and very easy to keep clean.


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## bignath (15/4/11)

bum said:


> I have no idea what you imagine his huge crime is. I read your post and I still don't understand. It will have caused his be zero ill effects at all (assuming we're not talking the 5 week mark here) and the extra time can only have improved the rest.
> 
> 
> Why do you think that? Because he's been "corrected" on a complete non-issue?




I don't personally think he's committed any "crime" mate. 

He's the one suggesting that he got lazy with the bottling process and as a result, in HIS opinion, the second part of the batch has suffered due to it. Whether there's any truth to the laziness being the culprit for the rest of the batch being a dud, who really knows? You and i both know there are lots of ways to destroy a batch of beer, and i can't imagine that leaving the rest of the bottling process can be good for a batch for either a quality or a consistency point of view.
If he's sucked in a lot of air to bottle some of it, sneezed in it, coughed over it etc... then it's quite possible for the rest of the batch to be staled/bad/infected/whatever, therefore your opinion above, that the extra time can *only* have improved the rest is bullshit. 

Oh, and i know he's taken no offence to it because he replied to my post admitting he had taken no offence.

I also don't think it's a non issue either. I also don't think it's worth taking this thread any further off topic, but i can't imagine a scenario where bottling a batch in parts over a few days/weeks whatever, is considered good practise.


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## philw (15/4/11)

I am happy with mine 

done a couple of brews and no different to using the old FV 


i thing i have noticed though is that it looks like I have scratch the bottom of it with the spoon when mixing up my Wort 

I called Coopers about it and with how I sterilise it they think it should be ok


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## healz (16/4/11)

Debates on criminal behaviour aside, can anyone tell us if these new FV's are any better than the old one's? I've got two of the old Cooper's FV's plus 2 of the Bunning's FV's which are perfectly good at brewing decent beers. Can anyone honestly tell me if this new design makes a better beer?


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## Braumoasta (16/4/11)

healz said:


> Can anyone honestly tell me if this new design makes a better beer?



I don't think the main purpose of the new fermenter is to produce "better beer". It is designed to make cleaning easier and remove some of the possible hassles present with the old fermenter.


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## Wolfy (17/4/11)

healz said:


> Can anyone honestly tell me if this new design makes a better beer?


In the end, a plastic bucket is still a plastic bucket.
If you keep them clean and sanitary there is no reason to believe that one with more bling will make 'better beer' than the other.
However it may be that one is easier to maintain, clean and keep sanitary which might be an improvement for some.


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## healz (17/4/11)

That's cool, I just wanted to know if it was worth investing in getting one.


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## Blackapple (17/4/11)

Bought one a while ago and I love it. Easy to clean and easy to see whats going on.
Think they are on sale at big W will be grabbing another.


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## Kieren (17/4/11)

I have done a few batches in mine now, my thoughts...

Pros
- can see the ferment quite clearly
- smooth inside, easy to clean, no grooves or crevices for bugs to hide
- no airlock
- no tap thread to clean and for bugs to hide in.
- increase krausen space
- easy to install tap

Cons 
- TAP, lots of places for bugs to hide, standard 13mm clear tube doesn't fit (need to find one that does, currently use a 3cm long bottling tube in the tap with a 13mm tube attached to that - this setup aerates the beer to much when racking)
- softer plastic seems more prone to scratching
- no airlock for those that need a reassuring bloop, bloop


Until I can sort out my racking issues I will be using my older style fermenters.


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## yum beer (17/4/11)

im now only using mine for primary fermantation, I ditch it into an old school FV for secondary. I dont trust the lid to be airtight if theres no gas being produced.

I love the amount of room for crap to sit in below the tap, makes racking off nice and clean.

BUT>>>I wont be buying another in a hurry.


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## ekul (17/4/11)

I read ina brew mag that these new fermenters are conical? Is this right? From the pic i saw it was like it was a conical bucket in a bucket.


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## Kieren (18/4/11)

More of a domed bottom than a conical - and there is no port at the bottom to remove the yeast/trub.

Forgot to add to my cons - lid not airtight so you can't shake the fermenter for aeration.


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## jeffyjudd (22/4/11)

i was thinking about getting a 2nd coopers fermenter but just measured my bar fridge n it wont fit in there with the croiser collar do u have to use the croiser collar ?
(i want the coopers diy kit cause i also need some more bottles the carbornation drops + it has the lager kit n be1 ....but not much good if i canmt used it without the croiser collar)


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## bum (22/4/11)

jeffyjudd said:


> do u have to use the croiser collar ?


Nope, but keep an eye on your headroom so you don't end up with krausen everywhere.


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## fraser_john (24/4/11)

I ran a brew class for our work social club, they bought one of these new kits.

We moved the fermenter to a different room and whilst moving, the lid "clips" popped off and the lid then popped off. Put that back on. Then it just slopped around like crazy and because the lid and krausen collar don't seal, wort gets out whilst it slops around.

Now, most people don't move their brew around too much, regardless, the fact it does not seal well is a bad thing, people do use glad wrap yes, but I am paranoid and want my fermenter sealed.

I wrote to Coopers and complained pretty loudly about the new design, I got a typical "thank you for contacting <insert company name here>....blah blah blah".

Oh well. I did not pay for the kit so I don't have to worry too much about it being at my place.

But I did advise the 20 odd people in the class to just go buy a barrel fermenter and steer clear of the Coopers DIY kits, so there goes about 10 DIY kits they won't sell now.


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## Braumoasta (24/4/11)

fraser_john said:


> Now, most people don't move their brew around too much, regardless, the fact it does not seal well is a bad thing, people do use glad wrap yes, but I am paranoid and want my fermenter sealed.



I move my brew around heaps, and have not had a problem with this fermenter...


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## Amber Fluid (25/4/11)

Braumoasta said:


> I move my brew around heaps, and have not had a problem with this fermenter...



+1

I move mine downstairs and upstairs at least twice everytime I brew and have never had a problem.

It's a real shame when something is a user fault and they blame the product. Now "x" amount of people will not make their own minds up, instead taking the advise of a bad user experience and thus missing out on something they may consider a better product as some of us here clearly do. 

I have done around 10-12 brews from this FV and so far I haven't had a need for these clips.


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## dcx3 (25/4/11)

Noticed there on special @ BigW in S.A. at the moment.


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