# Help



## ribsmasherau (16/9/10)

Hi i am new to doing home brews my 1st brew that came with the kit i bought turned out great but my last 2 attempts have failed the first failed brew was a tooheys extra dry morgans recipe kit Australian lagar 1kg booster blend 12g pride of ringwood it started fermenting about 2 days after mixing and went for about 6 hours then stopped i used the hydrometer on the 5th day and was around 1040 waited another 4 days with no change when i opened it up was a real off fruity smell so i discarded it, the 2nd failed mix was corona morgans recipe kit canadian light 1kg dry body blend 12g supa alpha and i got the same result as the 2nd failed one. these are the instructions i been following any idea what im doing wrong?
1. place can in hot water for 15mins to soften
2. boil 2ltrs of water and pour contents of can into fermenter
3. add the hot water
4. add dextrose or suger mallt blend stir well to dissolve
5. pour cold water into fermenter to bring contents upto 19ltrs check temp add 4ltrs of hot or cold water as req bringing temp to between 20 & 25
6. sprinkle the yeast on the surface and stir attach lid with airlock half filled with water 

temp of brew been keeping at around 18-20 
i have posted this on another forum but got flamed for being stupid i am new and just want the help


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## bum (16/9/10)

Hmmm...it seems what you're doing is essentially correct. I can only wonder about sanitation - what did you do to clean your fermenter after the first brew and between the two dud brews? Please be as detailed as you can. Only thing is I'm not sure that'd explain why they weren't fermenting. More info is needed here, methinks.

When you say the temp is 18-20C (which is good) is that peak temps and maybe a lot cooler at night?


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## Shed101 (16/9/10)

Welcome RockyAU  

If you get flamed here, it's just people having a laugh at your expense ... consider it a bit like an initiation  

Anyone who flames you, look up their first ever post and you'll see they probably started out just as stoopid... patience and persistence works with brewing and with fora.

How did you clean your equipment? (i mean your brewing equipment, not your family jewels).
It has to be absolutely clean and sanitised.

Another possibliity is that you're using crappy kit yeast... don't ever use it again, buy a decent yeast suitable for the style of beer you're brewing from your local homebrew shop (LHBS) and you'll have much more success.

Don't give up, most people start out badly, which makes the improvement even more fun.


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## ribsmasherau (16/9/10)

bum said:


> Hmmm...it seems what you're doing is essentially correct. I can only wonder about sanitation - what did you do to clean your fermenter after the first brew and between the two dud brews? Please be as detailed as you can. Only thing is I'm not sure that'd explain why they weren't fermenting. More info is needed here, methinks.
> 
> When you say the temp is 18-20C (which is good) is that peak temps and maybe a lot cooler at night?




I used dishwashing liquid to clean, rinsed real well then used Tooheys no rinse steriliser that came with the kit.
The temp may of dropped a few degrees late at night but every time i checked was around 18-20 i am just worried i dont wanna go and waste another $40 worth of stuff for a mix and it end up messed up if i am doing something wrong. I have been useing the yeast that comes with the cans.


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## pk.sax (16/9/10)

The yeast wig the kit might've bn out of date!

As with bakin yeast, bring some water to a boil and the. Cool it ~20-25 C. Add yeast and after a few minutes, drop a pinch of sugar (caster is easy to use) in and the yeast should leap for it like hungry dogs. If it's sitting around and not foaming up a bit then the yeast might be dead and you need another sache of yeast.


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## kelbygreen (16/9/10)

sounds like your doing it right. the yeast may have been a dud. one the easiest ways to improve a kit beer is get good yeast, fermentis US-05 or S04 are good alrounders and you can almost use them for all styles. another thing that comes to mind is the temp you pitched the yeast at, and also the temp the yeast you were pitching was at. Ideally the yeast should be the same temp as the wort your pitching it into (but -/+10c is acceptable) anything over that and the yeast get to shocked.


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## JunkzOr (16/9/10)

RockyAu said:


> I used dishwashing liquid to clean, rinsed real well then used Tooheys no rinse steriliser that came with the kit.
> The temp may of dropped a few degrees late at night but every time i checked was around 18-20 i am just worried i dont wanna go and waste another $40 worth of stuff for a mix and it end up messed up if i am doing something wrong. I have been useing the yeast that comes with the cans.



Welcome to the forums from one noob to another. 

I have to ask, did you santise EVERYTHING that touched your wort? By that I mean EVERYTHING including the can opener you used to open the tin of goo? scissors for opening packets, the tap of your fermenter everything? This is the MOST important part of making homebrew beer. I'm only on my second brew and I am absolutely paranoid about sanitation, everything gets a squirt of sanitiser before I attempt to do anything.

After that fact, your kit yeast might have died an old aged death. as suggested.


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## kelbygreen (16/9/10)

Oh also I wouldnt clean with dishwashing liquid, the easiest way to clean a fermenter is get cheap nappy soaker (nappy san) but can be no brand as long as its unscented. I just dump about 2 caps in the bottom fill the fermenter to the brim and leave over night you come back the next day all the crud is gone and to be sure drain 3/4 put the lid on shake it then tip the rest rinse 3 times shaking it till all the foam is gone (no need to wash just sanitise unless there is visable signs of crap). You are best off taking your tap off and putting the bug in there and put the tap in the fermenter to soak. 

also any bottles drunk that night rinse straight away shaking (do this twice) then drown them in the fermenter so they sink. next day or when you get around rinse 3 times shaking them and there all clean and right to sanitse. to easy! I always have a fermenter, pot, bucket with napi san in so i can dump botlles into makes bottle day so much quicker as no need to clean them.


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## bum (16/9/10)

Dunno, guys. It seems pretty weird that two yeasts in a row, from different manufacturers, are properly shitful. Nor would it really explain why the yeast seemed to work fine for a bit then stop at 1040 (yes, I understand we're probably talking about airlock activity).

Did you get the second two kits from the same shop you got the first one, Rocky?


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## kocken42 (16/9/10)

Welcome to AHB RockyAu!,

First of all, don't use dishwashing liquid to 'clean' your fermenter...dishwashing liquid has no sterilising qualities, it only has the ability to break down grease and other dirts (where nasties might be living) but relies upon the water for it's true cleaning properties. I can only think that your problem is related to infection. It's true those kit yeasts aren't the best, but I think if you give yeast food, they will generally always start fermenting!

Be sure to buy some sanitising powder from wherever you get your supplies, and allow your fermenter to soak in it for a day, allowing the sanitiser to reach into any crevices and scratches where bacteria might be hiding. A lot of people also use bleach (non-scented) diluted with water and allow to stand for a while...this will kill most things, then a rinse or 2 with boiled water and it should be sweet. Also make sure that after that lid goes on the fermenter, don't put anything in the fermenter which isn't completely sanitised first and there really shouldn't be any need to open the lid until the ferment is complete (unless you don't have a tap on the fermenter and need to get a sample. 

If you keep those temps right (like you are) and use the cleanest of all clean equipment, you will get in a very good habit, and hopefully never have to deal with these things again. I'd also suggest for you next brew, to just buy a coopers draught tin or whatever you like, 1kg of the brew enhancer and leave it at that. It will only put you back about $17 and that way you will have a beer which will probably be close in style to what you are looking for right now, without the $40 cost of those pre-made packs. At least if you still have the problem again it will only be $17 wasted. 

Good luck mate!

P.S Don't be afraid to ask questions on here! most of us won't bite, but before asking a question, have a quick search on the web and see if your question has been asked and answered before...chances are it has been.


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## bum (16/9/10)

kelbygreen said:


> also any bottles drunk that night rinse straight away shaking (do this twice) then drown them in the fermenter so they sink. next day or when you get around rinse 3 times shaking them and there all clean and right to sanitse. to easy! I always have a fermenter, pot, bucket with napi san in so i can dump botlles into makes bottle day so much quicker as no need to clean them.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Rocky doesn't seem like he's sure he wants to do another brew at all - let's see if someone can help him work this out before we over complicate things.


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## ribsmasherau (16/9/10)

bum said:


> Dunno, guys. It seems pretty weird that two yeasts in a row, from different manufacturers, are properly shitful. Nor would it really explain why the yeast seemed to work fine for a bit then stop at 1040 (yes, I understand we're probably talking about airlock activity).
> 
> Did you get the second two kits from the same shop you got the first one, Rocky?



the first one was a complete kit fermenter etc from kmart then decided i wanted to make beer more to my taste so been going to a brew shop for the last 2 that did not work still have the empty cans not out of date or anything or the yeast like i said i did the reading and was at 1040 when the airlock stopped and checked again 4 days later still the same reading. And thankyou everyone for the welcome.


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## bum (16/9/10)

I know it might feel like a backwards step but give everything a good soak (not in dishwashing liquid, as mentioned) and grab a kit from Big W or similar and a box of BE2 and see how it goes. Could be bugs in the LHBS's brew mix stuff or something. This still isn't making a great deal of sense to me yet.

I don't suppose you could explain in what way these beers smelled "rank"? I'm wondering if it might not be an infection at all, just some smell you didn't like? Don't suppose you tasted it at all?


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## kocken42 (16/9/10)

Perhaps your LHBS (Local Home Brew Shop) did not take care of the cans? I'm not sure...

If the kit yeast were to sit in the sun for a few hours would it affect them? I'm not sure if thos kit yeasts are that fragile...they would ferment through anything.


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## pk.sax (16/9/10)

Not to be negative of brewshops, but for some of them, the kits move really slow. Those cans (and the yeast under) can be in the un-air-conditioned shop forever b4 u buy. The can itself might be just fine (within expiry u said...) but the yeast might've black eyes and STDs fromthe rough treatment.

Edit: bazinga yeast! lol


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## keifer33 (16/9/10)

Just to add a few more things to try without recapping. Grab some no rinse sanitiser and chuck it in a spray bottle and spray everything as it comes into/will come into contact with the wort. Dont give up and be patient its normally something so minor you'll kick yourself later.


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## ribsmasherau (16/9/10)

bum said:


> I know it might feel like a backwards step but give everything a good soak (not in dishwashing liquid, as mentioned) and grab a kit from Big W or similar and a box of BE2 and see how it goes. Could be bugs in the LHBS's brew mix stuff or something. This still isn't making a great deal of sense to me yet.
> 
> I don't suppose you could explain in what way these beers smelled "rank"? I'm wondering if it might not be an infection at all, just some smell you didn't like? Don't suppose you tasted it at all?




Was not game enough to taste smelt like rotten fruit real sweet off smell, guys on the other forum said never discard your brew should of left for upto a monthbut the lhbs said roughly a week and after its done 1000-1010 put the finning in and leave for another week then bottle. I have 2 fermenters 1 was given to me a few days ago going to try the corona mix again over the weekend and will also grab a kit from kmart or something and try that in the 2nd fermenter. I was spewing they did not turn out i had to drink 7 cartons of coronas over the last 2 weeks so i would have enough bottles lol


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## Ade42 (16/9/10)

did you have the fermenter in a dark place? When I started I made the mistake of having the Fermenter on my kitchen benchtop, I had a couple of brews suddenly stop, after moving into very dark garage all been fine.

Nappysan, the cheap no name stuff is all i use, I tgo over the top and put 4-6 capfulls into the fermenter with very hot water, straight from hot water system almost boiling. fill to the brim and leave for a couple of days. sometimes I leave em for a week if i can't get to LHBS. never had an infection since. 

how are you getting the "cold" water? is it in a jug, or straight from the tap?


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## DangerousDave (16/9/10)

welcome to brewing mate

from the info you have given my 2c is that its gotta be sanitation considering your first brew was fine then the 2 after are duds id say get yourself 2 things 1 is a sodium percarbonate cleaner (napi san uncented) but you can also get it pretty cheap at your home brew store and soak the gear in it over night 2nd is a acid based sterilizer like iodophor or star san again from your local brew store the sodium will 'clean' your gear the acid will 'sterilise' the 2 i mentioned will give you a hospital grade sanitation level if used correctly

+1 for getting a cheap ass kit to test your next batch 
i know it seams like a lot of time wasted now but hang in there bud you will be glad you did


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## bum (16/9/10)

RockyAu said:


> Was not game enough to taste smelt like rotten fruit real sweet off smell,


Hmmm...I hate to say this, Rocky. That might not have been an infection. If you had to say one way or another would you say it was a bit like apples at all? If it happens again on the next one just ride it out and see what happens.



RockyAu said:


> the lhbs said roughly a week and after its done 1000-1010 put the finning in and leave for another week then bottle.


This doesn't sound like terrible advice to me. Of course there can merit in leaving it a little longer but certainly nothing to flame people over - especially not for a second brew.



RockyAu said:


> I was spewing they did not turn out i had to drink 7 cartons of coronas over the last 2 weeks so i would have enough bottles lol


Just make sure you keep these bottles in the dark once they've got your beer in them. Beer doesn't really like direct light - causes what is known as "light strike" or "skunking". I'm sure you can tell that you don't want any skunked beer.


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## ribsmasherau (16/9/10)

Ade42 said:


> did you have the fermenter in a dark place? When I started I made the mistake of having the Fermenter on my kitchen benchtop, I had a couple of brews suddenly stop, after moving into very dark garage all been fine.
> 
> Nappysan, the cheap no name stuff is all i use, I tgo over the top and put 4-6 capfulls into the fermenter with very hot water, straight from hot water system almost boiling. fill to the brim and leave for a couple of days. sometimes I leave em for a week if i can't get to LHBS. never had an infection since.
> 
> how are you getting the "cold" water? is it in a jug, or straight from the tap?



Fermenter is in the laundy/spa room i guess the light is on a fair bit in there and i had a thought the steam from running a spa could that effect it? been getting the cold water from the tap into a measurring jug.


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## pk.sax (16/9/10)

^ that is what a bit o healthy bread yeast with a bit of warm water and a big pinch of sugar looks like when rehydrated. Pretty easy thing to rule out if you rehydrate the yeast and make sure it's alive 'enough'

Guess I'll be baking some


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## kocken42 (16/9/10)

RockyAu said:


> Was not game enough to taste smelt like rotten fruit real sweet off smell, guys on the other forum said never discard your brew should of left for upto a monthbut the lhbs said roughly a week and after its done 1000-1010 put the finning in and leave for another week then bottle. I have 2 fermenters 1 was given to me a few days ago going to try the corona mix again over the weekend and will also grab a kit from kmart or something and try that in the 2nd fermenter. I was spewing they did not turn out i had to drink 7 cartons of coronas over the last 2 weeks so i would have enough bottles lol


 
At least you got some valuable info from the guys on the other forum...generally you should never discard your brew! during fermentation there will be a lot of yeast by-products and many chemical reactions taking place which create flavours and aromas which might not be what you wanted/expected...heck, even a clean ferment and a month of conditioning and I'm still not happy with the sharpness and greeness of some of my beers. Make sure you give your beer time to become 'infected'. I'm sure hunderds of people have tipped beer because they thought it was off but was actually just going through the process.

Also, never trust your airlock as an indicator of fermentation! the bubbling in the early stages can just be the liquid change temp. and expanding and pushing air out etc. Also, you might not seal your lid properly sometimes and the airlock won't bubble at all, it doesn't mean it's not fermenting...it just means the CO2 is escaping elsewhere, and it's not a problem if the lid isn't on perfectly.

After you have mixed you ingredients together in your fermenter and topped up with water, take a reading with your hydrometer so you know the original gravity of the beer. Check it again in 24 hours, and so on. It is really the only true indicator of whether those sugars are being consumed or not. 

Never give up! 

P.S - Enjoy the Corona now...in a few months your palate will be so rapildy developed you will hate it and want a big ale to quench that thirst! and to stimulate those tastebuds!


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## Ade42 (16/9/10)

RockyAu said:


> Fermenter is in the laundy/spa room i guess the light is on a fair bit in there and i had a thought the steam from running a spa could that effect it? been getting the cold water from the tap into a measurring jug.



keep in total darkness if you can, could you put a curtain on the window in the laundry? or wrap the fermenter in blankets although this will raise the temp which may not be a good idea. 

I also get my cold water from the shower, it has a "pulsate" setting and i use that to fill the fermenter after the goop etc. it aerates my wort wonderfully and usualy have very good yeast "action" as a result. 

when i started I used to use a mesuering jug gave it away when i learnt all about yeast and oxygen!


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## michaelcocks (16/9/10)

Your fermentation is not started..
Either yeast is bad (unlikely since you had two bad kits)
The wort that's sat there unfermented will go pretty horrid quickly

As posted here by others pay attention to cleaning and sanitizing everything 
Take the tap apart on your fermenter and clean it
Watch your temp control 18-22 is ideal
Get rid of your lid and airlock and use clingwrap instead jut put over the fermenter in place of lid and secure with a rubber band or the black seal from inside the fermenter lid
Proofing your yeast (described above with water and sugar) will help make sure it is alive and well
Also you might want to add a bit of air as yeast needs oxygen to start it's growth I use a sanitized whisk just whip up like buggery until you have a god frothy head:

you CANNOT be to clean and sanitary in brewing

Any Wollongong based brewers willing to help a newb ?

Don't worry it's something probably very simple


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## ribsmasherau (16/9/10)

Cheers everyone for your help really looking forward to starting again this weekend


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## petesbrew (16/9/10)

Welcome aboard Rocky,
Everyone's given you great advice and hints so far.
Definitely don't use dishwashing liquid, and NEVER use a scourer! Scourer's leave scratches, where bugs can hide, set up camp, and eventually organise little communities like Nimbin in. You''ll never get the infections back out.

You mentioned you opened it up to check & smell it - the only time I open mine up is to add more hops. 
Honestly the krausen on top looks pretty rank at the best of times, so just don't bother. 
When you take those hydrometer samples, smell and taste that instead.

edit: seriously, even if it's an average brew, you can drink your hydro sample. If the smell and taste make's you wanna spew, you know it's pretty much gone.

dammit I love hydrometer samples... who doesn't!?!?!

And yeah, as suggested, maybe drop back to a coopers kit and try to get your methods sorted.
Cheers
Pete


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## Travo (16/9/10)

Mate, couple of other suggestions for you that may/may not have been considered in the above:

- Is your top up water just tap water? This could be a possible source of infection; hence I usually boil what I need the night before and let it cool overnight in a sanitised container. Some people will disagree here, but if you've had a couple of brews go off it's worth looking at every possibility.
- You mentioned something about Pride of Ringwood, I don't recall reading anything about how you add it to your brew. How are you storing your hops and how are you adding them?

As I said, these may or may not have been covered in all the responses, but hopefully with these suggestions and the others we can sort you out 

Cheers,

Travo


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## kocken42 (16/9/10)

Travo said:


> Mate, couple of other suggestions for you that may/may not have been considered in the above:
> 
> - Is your top up water just tap water? This could be a possible source of infection;
> - You mentioned something about Pride of Ringwood, I don't recall reading anything about how you add it to your brew. How are you storing your hops and how are you adding them?


 
I know you said people may disagree with you about the first statement, but water quality is extremely high in Australia, and is disinfected with chlorine from the treatment centre to your tap. Thinking about that, is there certain levels of chlorine which may kill yeast? Perhaps Rocky's tap water has high chlorine levels, but aspiration would blow a fair bit of chlorine off so I'm not sure...also, I would be more worried about handling the water, leaving it in the fridge (possibly with food/ mould etc.) than I would be if it came straight from the tap (if you keep the boiled water covered in a sanitised container then no problems).

I don't want to answer a question directed at Rocky's here, but I think he was using the can + kilo + hops combination that his LHBS recommended as part of a recipe, so it probably came with a finishing hop teabag, which I presume he steeped.


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## bum (16/9/10)

My Little Pony said:


> which I presume he steeped.



...IN HIS POISONOUS WATER!!!


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## Travo (16/9/10)

bum said:


> ...IN HIS POISONOUS WATER!!!



Hehe, no its a fair point that you are both making, our water is excellent. I'm merely trying to offer different suggestions he may try to get things back on track. It appears that most of the usual issues have been covered off here...

One more question...you aren't putting your brew together in the room with the spa by any chance are you and then sealing it up when in that room?


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## bum (16/9/10)

Travo said:


> no its a fair point that you are both making



Obviously it is worth considering all possibilities but since he did three all close together with essentially the same method it would be unlikely that his water quality would change so suddenly and severely. Unless of course he's using rain water but even then it is such an outside long shot that it probably isn't going to be the case - him and his family would probably be getting sick before his beer would.


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## kocken42 (16/9/10)

Travo said:


> One more question...you aren't putting your brew together in the room with the spa by any chance are you and then sealing it up when in that room?


 
I think it's a great idea to put the brew together in the spa-room...maybe light a candle a sprinkle some rose petals around, a great environment for those yeast to get it onnnnnn.

Also one of Rocky's favourite drinks (Corona) was actually inspired by bath/spa brewing which re-used water which the entire Corona family (9 members) had bathed themselves in, at which point the bath water was 4/5ths urine. Padre Corona, you little genius!


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## Travo (16/9/10)

My Little Pony said:


> ...a great environment for those yeast to get it onnnnnn.



You paint a clear image, I can already hear the Marvin Gaye playing in the background while all the little yeasties do their thing....


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## kocken42 (16/9/10)

Travo said:


> You paint a clear image, I can already hear the Marvin Gaye playing in the background while all the little yeasties do their thing....


 
I believe that you mean, do their THANG!


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## rendo (16/9/10)

Hey Rocky,

Here is a great how-to thread on "cleaning the fermenter tap"....have a read. 

My guess from all the above is that you have a sanitation problem SOMEWHERE or maybe something to do with the location you are brewing..(or both... )...anyway, unscented napisan is your best friend...get some, put a good capful in your fermenter, fill it up with hot hot water and let that baby soak for a day or two. Rinse super well. For the brew day, get some no-rinse sanitiser and use it as per instructions, in one of those spray bottles is best....hell even spray yourself with it too 

Brew in a dark location, got a laundry cupboard you can brew in...OR even better do you have a second fridge that you arent using, just leave it off, put the fermenter in there and whammo...perfect fermenting location....(also...if the fridge is working then we will talk later and you will learn that brewing in a temp controlled fridge is the ducks nuts....anyway...that is for another day...lets get the basics right first)

Fantastic suggestion from someone about getting a standard kit (keep the costs low) with BE2 from somewhere like BIGW where the kits move faster. Get the one with the longest expiry date. I recommend Coopers canadian blonde, dont get the Euro lager as that is a REAL lager yeast and you want to stay away from that for now as it is trickier to brew with and takes longer to mature....(details for another day)

Let us know how you go....welcome to AHB...I have learnt SO MUCH from this site...and my beer just keeps getting better

Rendo


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## mwd (17/9/10)

:icon_offtopic: I have been gifted some of those thin latex gloves like medics police and dentists use. 
If you are really anal about steralisation and sanitisation they are great to avoid any chance of bad bacteria from your hands getting into anything. I sanitise bottles in a bucket of 9litres of iodophor solution and of course you have to keep putting your hands in. :icon_offtopic: 
( yes I do wash my hands before doing any brewery duties )


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## Mobbee007 (17/9/10)

Hi Rocky welcome to AHB,
I also live in the Gong and am more than happy to head round and have a look if you're interested? Just pm me if you're keen and if I can I'll drop in and share my limited experience.
Or head to the northern brew in Wonoona and speak to the guys there they know their stuff and are more than happy to give advice ( and a free sample of whatever he's got in kegs!!)
Cheers
Steve


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## JestersDarts (17/9/10)

My Little Pony said:


> Also one of Rocky's favourite drinks (Corona) was actually inspired by bath/spa brewing which re-used water which the entire Corona family (9 members) had bathed themselves in, at which point the bath water was 4/5ths urine. Padre Corona, you little genius!



?????????????????


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## Malted (17/9/10)

Just a thought, could the fruity smell have been the aroma of the hops? There was 12g in the brews.


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## olde (17/9/10)

You have an infection, so napisan is not going to help you with that. It will clean crud, but it will not STERILISE. 
I would 
1: Wash with napisan, ensuring the tap is pulled apart and washed thoroughly.
2: Sterilise with Sodium Hypochlorite, including the still pulled apart tap, o-ring, grommet, airlock. Make sure you take a chux or something to the thread in the fermenter too. Also sterlise anything that touches your brew, spoon etc. (edit - properly diluted to correct proportions, of course)
3: Rinse everything with boiled water until there is no more smell.
4: Sanitise with no rinse sanitiser.
5: Put a brew down with complete confidence, following my normal procedures.


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## JestersDarts (17/9/10)

oldy said:


> You have an infection, so napisan is not going to help you with that. It will clean crud, but it will not STERILISE.
> I would
> 1: Wash with napisan, ensuring the tap is pulled apart and washed thoroughly.
> 2: Sterilise with Sodium Hypochlorite, including the still pulled apart tap, o-ring, grommet, airlock. Make sure you take a chux or something to the thread in the fermenter too. Also sterlise anything that touches your brew, spoon etc. (edit - properly diluted to correct proportions, of course)
> ...



what are you on about?


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## olde (17/9/10)

Proper sanitation, also known as "The basics".
Shame if you missed that class.


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## JestersDarts (17/9/10)

oldy said:


> Proper sanitation, also known as "The basics".
> Shame if you missed that class.



"thanks" for the "lesson"


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## Stagwa (17/9/10)

Hi RockyAu,


Is there any chance that maybe your thermometer is incorrect? Are you referring to the stick on thermometer? If it is wrong the brew may be a lot hotter than you think and this may be killing the yeast.

Cheers,
Stagwa


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## ribsmasherau (18/9/10)

The thermometer is the stick on type so could maybe be incorrect i just went out today and bought another mix the lbs said has a better yeast with it also said i was silly throwing away the other brews cause they could of been savable even if it ment adding another yeast.


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## manticle (18/9/10)

Stagwa said:


> Hi RockyAu,
> 
> 
> Is there any chance that maybe your thermometer is incorrect? Are you referring to the "stick on" thermometer? If it is wrong the brew may be a lot hotter than you think and this may be killing the yeast.
> ...


How hot is too hot for yeast?

Do yuou think it's likely the brew will have reached that temperature?


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## Stagwa (19/9/10)

manticle said:


> How hot is too hot for yeast?
> 
> Do yuou think it's likely the brew will have reached that temperature?




I don't know. Just offering something different from the 3 pages of "you have an infection" he may practice safe brewing by wearing a condom to reduce the chance of infection...


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## fasty73 (19/9/10)

Only read the first page. I would just go back to Big W and get some cans of Brigalow New and Brew Enhancer2. Use the sterilizer from the kit (it's great). Once you make one or 2 good batches, then try mixing it up a bit. What commercial beer do you like? I like Tooheys New and the Brigalow is VERY similar in taste. I just finishe 2 and a half cartons of it and it was only in the fermenter for 5 days and bottle for 2 weeks!!!! I am NO expert yet. I have only made 4 bottled batches and have another 5 fermenting, plus 3 more tonight when I get the fermenters. I am now trying new stuff, ie, more malt, different Brew Enhancers, bith 1 and 2 and just brewing sugar, more sugar in some. It's great fun but I am sure I am going to get some shocking beer. So like I said Kepp it simple, make that batch that worked, get your confidence up and THEN try new brews.


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## Whiteferret (19/9/10)

fasty73 said:


> I have only made 4 bottled batches and have another 5 fermenting, plus 3 more tonight when I get the fermenters.




does this mean your going to have 8 fermenters?  and you've only brewed 4 so far wow way to get into it 
they talk about a slippery slope but f&*k :super:


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## fasty73 (19/9/10)

Yes, I will have 8 batches fermenting by about 9pm tonight. This IS ADDICTIVE!!!!


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## Dazza_devil (19/9/10)

fasty73 said:


> Yes, I will have 8 batches fermenting by about 9pm tonight. This IS ADDICTIVE!!!!




You obviously have kegs.


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## fasty73 (19/9/10)

No kegs. A spare room FULL OF BEER!!!!


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## Dazza_devil (19/9/10)

fasty73 said:


> No kegs. A spare room FULL OF BEER!!!!




That's a lotta bottles to wash and sanitise.

How big are your fermenters?


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## fasty73 (19/9/10)

Just the 25ltr ones. Yes I am looking into kegs. Washing bottles does tend to take up too much drinking time.


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## Dazza_devil (19/9/10)

Hmmm, lemme see.
A quick calculation gives me 8X23litres of beer, discounting 2 litres for each in trub.
That's 184 litres, divide by 0.75 for bottles,
is 245 bottles and 1 stubbie.
You got enough?


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## fasty73 (19/9/10)

Not yet but I am going to get about 100 tallies this arco. I have 5 cartons of stubbies and about 20 tallies so far. Hmmmmmmmmmm better get to drinking hey!!!!


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## Dazza_devil (19/9/10)

What size batches are you brewing, it probably wont be as many as I thought.


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## ribsmasherau (19/9/10)

If get desperate BigW, Kmart Etc Sell Boxs Of 15 PET bottles $12 a box 30 of them does 23 liters if not it's a great excuse to drink more


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## Silo Ted (19/9/10)

> Yes, I will have 8 batches fermenting by about 9pm tonight. This IS ADDICTIVE!!!!



LOL, Im impressed. Youve been brewing for about three weeks? A sterling effort I must say, to have that many on the go at once. You should probably look into buying bulk DME soon, to save some money, hop your own beers and use 60l fermenters. 

Have you even drank any of your brews yet?


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## fasty73 (19/9/10)

I am brewing 23ltrs at a time in all 8 fermenters. I don't like the though of using plastic bottles, just seems unnatural, but thats just my opinion.Yeah, I've been brewing for 4 weeks. So far I have drank all of the first 2 batches, which batch 1 was Tooheys lager, fermented fro 5 days and bottled for 11 days, was a bit "green" then I am just finishing my first batch of Brigalow "New", now that IS NICE, only fermented for 5 days and bottled for 14 days. Now I am using my hydrometer and fermenting closer to 14 days. I am about to start drinking my 3rd batch which is Tooheys Draught. I got a bad feeling about this one. Will keep you updated in about 5 minutes when I crack the first one. It too was fermented for 5 days and bottled for 11 days.


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## manticle (19/9/10)

Stagwa said:


> I don't know. Just offering something different from the 3 pages of "you have an infection" he may practice safe brewing by wearing a condom to reduce the chance of infection...



The reason I asked is because beer and wine yeast can tolerate temperatures a fair bit higher than 30 degrees (some yeasts can grow above 40 degrees if the other conditions are OK). It's pretty unlikely that the yeast was pitched at 50, even if the thermometer was out although yeast health/dysfunction could still be an issue.


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## Oatlands Brewer (19/9/10)

Maybe a stupid suggestion but the guy says he keeps his fermenter in a "Laundry Spa room".......maybe if the spa is functioning there will be some airbourne chlorine which if hes opened his ferm it may nuke the brew.


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## bum (19/9/10)

But the chlorine that might be in his water would be fine?


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## ribsmasherau (19/9/10)

No chlorine in spa gets run fresh each time we use it's not huge but great to kick back in with a beer after work 
I think i just jumped to fast to say it was infected or stuffed because i bottled a case of the 2nd failed one before i emptied and cracked a bottle
today just out of curiousity and was the best damn beer ive tasted i messed up throwing out all that beer.


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## kelbygreen (19/9/10)

yeah when they ferment they can throw all smells depending on the yeast and temp fermented at, They usually look infected when fermenting (this is krausen) its a thick slug like stuff ontop. I just done a lager and they usually smell like sulfur and it was swiss lager yeast I thought it smelt bloody nice and fermented quicker then I thought at 12c. So yes never throw a beer, Well if after you bottle and they explode, taste and smell off then yes but otherwise it could very well be your best beer. I have a few i wanted to throw from tasting after fermentation and some have been my best beers after 1 month or so in the bottle.

Thats another thing they may taste not so good after 2-3 weeks but after 4 they are alright and after 6-8 weeks they are bloody good, or you could crack one at 2-3 weeks and its bloody good but after 6-8 weeks its lost a bit of bitterness or something that made it good so make sure you keep a few to try for the weeks ahead. write the recipe down when you brewed it, the temp it was kept at, when you cc it (if you did), when you bottled it (with the amount of sugar used) and then when you tried it and take notes each week for what you think so the next time you can go right I liked it best at 4-6weeks so dont touch it till then.


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## Acasta (19/9/10)

Honestly, this seems like a waste, if you got the money to spare its fine i guess, but i mean 8 batches? You wont learn as much doing to it like this. And your going to have so much beer your not going to have enough room to brew for ages! 

Then again. Free beer at fasty's place in 4 weeks?  

Enjoy it mate.


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## fasty73 (20/9/10)

YUP!!!!! Got a spare room dedicated for beer on it's own. Hell yeah!!! Party at my place in 4 weeks, you're ALL invited!!!


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## Acasta (21/9/10)

Haha, all my beginner beer ended up going to my mates, and i only drank it after i've lost my taste buds on a few good beers.


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## colonel (22/9/10)

I think there's a lot of fear of fear out there as regards sanitation.
I have made over 300 brews, and, other than the first ten or so (newby), I rarely sanitise anything.
I have only had 2 or 3 "weird" batches in 17 years.

Maybe it depends where you live, and the "resident" bugs.

After bottling, I wash and rinse wort with boiling water, and immediately refill for the next brew.
All bits and pieces go onto the kitchen bench, to be washed with the other kitchen dishes, and kept in a drawer.
Bottles are rinsed after drinking (or, next day, if it's a big session), with cold water, and stored upside down (bread crates are ideal for this) ready for next filling.

I firmly believe in not doing anything with chemicals if it isn't needed.

Yeast is the most likely culprit of the original problem.

Cheers

Colonel




JunkzOr said:


> Welcome to the forums from one noob to another.
> 
> I have to ask, did you santise EVERYTHING that touched your wort? By that I mean EVERYTHING including the can opener you used to open the tin of goo? scissors for opening packets, the tap of your fermenter everything? This is the MOST important part of making homebrew beer. I'm only on my second brew and I am absolutely paranoid about sanitation, everything gets a squirt of sanitiser before I attempt to do anything.
> 
> After that fact, your kit yeast might have died an old aged death. as suggested.


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## bignath (22/9/10)

colonel said:


> I think there's a lot of fear of fear out there as regards sanitation.
> I have made over 300 brews, and, other than the first ten or so (newby), I rarely sanitise anything.
> I have only had 2 or 3 "weird" batches in 17 years.
> 
> ...




I couldn't agree more with ya Colonel. I recently had a friend who started his first ever batch of homebrew. Purchased a coopers micro kit, and then set about rinsing it in nappy san, bleach, sodium met. you name it he used it at the direction / fear of his partner telling him he needed to....Talk about paranoid.

I do exactly the same, boiling water rinse fermenter, then cold rinse, it's good to go again.
Bottles - boiling / hot tap water after using, put away in clean dry atmosphere for next batch. 

That's all i do, never had an infection. Made plenty of bad beer over the years, but none of the problems have been due to cleanliness....

Nath


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## JestersDarts (22/9/10)

uh ohhhhhh...


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## olde (22/9/10)

Yep, sanitation is sometimes overstated. 
That said, I can without a shadow of doubt guarantee that I could wipe my arse on Nath and the Colonels bottles and not make a skerrick of difference to the "quality" of their product.


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## JestersDarts (22/9/10)

I guess when you don't care if your stuff is sanitised or not, you don't care which brand of goop you use..


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## bignath (22/9/10)

funny stuff fellas, but there's a lot of generalisations going on here....

Firstly, I never said i didn't care about cleanliness.. I am a very clean person and a very clean brewer. Just merely pointing out, that SOME people in my opinion take sanitation TOO far. Absolutely it's important to be concerned about cleanliness while you are brewing beer, or making anything fit for consumption for that matter, but sterilising a pair of scissors to open your yeast for ****'s sake??? I think that's a bit extreme.
I don't brew in a filthy environment, and i am cautious about what i put in my beer and whether it has been cleaned or not, i just think that sometimes people tend to go overboard for "FEAR" of contamination. Every second post it seems in the kits forums is about "is my beer infected". 

Secondly, you have never tasted my beer. How do you know it's no good?

Thirdly, who said just because i answered a topic in kits & extracts, that i brew with kits? In the last 6 months i have gone AG and producing nice beers. I may not have thousands of posts next to my name as i don't make a habit of throwing smart arsed comments around. I generally only post if i think i have something that someone else may find useful to add. 

As i said in my post above, i have NEVER had an "infected" brew or a problem with my level of sanitation after nearly 10 years of brewing, but i am careful with how i brew beer. Just not paranoid that's all. As i also mentioned, i have made plenty of crap beer when i first started out, but that was due to not understanding key ingredients and process of fermentation (temps, pitch rates etc.). Never from not being clean though....

Don't make assumptions that i am not a competent brewer who doesn't understand what he's doing.


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## Dazza_devil (22/9/10)

I don't believe homebrew can be 100% free of infection no matter what we do to avoid it. I do believe that minimising any amount of infection will always lead to better beer. The more we can minimise it the better the beer will be. Sanitation isn't sterilization and is very worthwhile IMHO.


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## pk.sax (22/9/10)

Last time I Checked, yeasts were another microbe that spoils food. Albeit is useful to us if We feed it what we want to.

Yeasts are not the only thing either, the bacteria that sour your curd are also apparently responsible for your belgians tasting that bit different. Every micro-organism provides its own process and byproducts, flavours etc. Sanitation really has to be taken in context. Would I really really worry about the amount of time the beer is exposed to the air while racking it etc.... No, that's preposterous, it's already high in alcohol and has a ton of yeast that anything else would have to compete with.
I would however, spray around the area I am working in with sanitiser before I go about doin all that work to reduce the chance of infection. I don't see anything wrong with sanitizing scissors either. Dry dormant yeast is no match for alive n thriving bacteria even before any fermentation starts. Doesn't hurt to do it.
I wonder if all the ppl that scream "infection" ever got infections in the brews for the reasons they go on about. More of a statistical proof that all those things ppl are warned about have actually caused infections to the ppl preaching them.


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## Shed101 (22/9/10)

I'm scared stiff about infections ... that's why I wear a rubber outfit and bathe in starsan before brewing.


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## JestersDarts (22/9/10)

Nath / Colonel, I wasn't having a go at your beers, but I don't think that missing an important step in the brewing process is going to teach others that are learning how to brew, good practice.

Whats wrong with sanitising the scissors? you've got the solution already floating around on brewday.. so why not? Why not sanitise *everything *that comes in contact with something you brew with? surely its a better practice than not.

I dont think people are scared of infections as such, 
scared isnt the word when your brew is infected. 
Wasted time? dissappointment? thining that maybe i should have sanitised my scissors when cutting open that smack pack?

At the end of the day - do what works for you, and congrats on not getting any infections.


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## mwd (22/9/10)

Shed101 said:


> I'm scared stiff about infections ... that's why I wear a rubber outfit and bathe in starsan before brewing.



That's what happens when you drink unpasteurised stout and blackcurrents.


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## np1962 (22/9/10)

Shed101 said:


> I'm scared stiff about infections ... that's why I wear a rubber outfit and bathe in starsan before brewing.


Would certainly scare the shit out of me if I was a bacteria! :lol:


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## Oatlands Brewer (22/9/10)

..............Dude WTF


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## bignath (22/9/10)

JestersDarts said:


> Nath / Colonel, I wasn't having a go at your beers, but I don't think that missing an important step in the brewing process is going to teach others that are learning how to brew, good practice.
> 
> Whats wrong with sanitising the scissors? you've got the solution already floating around on brewday.. so why not? Why not sanitise *everything *that comes in contact with something you brew with? surely its a better practice than not.
> 
> ...




OK - cool.

sorry if i took offence if it wasn't your intention.. 
For what it's worth, i completely agree with you. I have just been getting concerned lately, and it seems to me that there have been a few posts going on from new brewers that are very cautious about sanitation/sterilization issues, but not spending enough thought and time covering other basics of brewing beer. 
I do completely agree that it is important (crucial) to have good processes which includes cleaning/sterilising your equipment, but have been concerned that some newb's haven't spent the same amount of effort on other areas which would also improve their results. 
I guess what i'm trying to say, is that if some people spent less time "worrying" and more time slowing down and being carefull with all good processes of brewing, then they would make better beer. I hope this makes sense..

once again, sorry if i took offence  

Nath


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## bum (22/9/10)

Big Nath said:


> I guess what i'm trying to say, is that if some people spent less time "worrying" and more time slowing down and being carefull with all good processes of brewing, then they would make better beer. I hope this makes sense..


Just revisiting an earlier post of yours in this light - how do you reconcile the above with your previous suggestion that sanitising scissors is a waste of time (and bordering on a mental health issue) when this idea comes from the yeast manufacturers themselves and is presented as the correct method (i.e. a "careful and good process")?

My feeling on the issue is that people who want to cut corners on "best possible practice" will do so with or without encouragement so the poo-pooing of cautious practices in this thread can only serve to embolden a corner cutter to new heights (depths) and they should be left to work out which corners they can live without for themselves.


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## felten (22/9/10)

Maybe we could just start brewing without yeast, or use a divine rod of bubbling to get our beer to start fermenting.


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## bignath (22/9/10)

bum said:


> Just revisiting an earlier post of yours in this light - how do you reconcile the above with your previous suggestion that sanitising scissors is a waste of time (and bordering on a mental health issue) when this idea comes from the yeast manufacturers themselves and is presented as the correct method (i.e. a "careful and good process")?




I guess i can't bum... I'll freely and honestly admit i didn't know it was "that" important as presented by the actual manufacture of the yeast to sanitise my scissors. I have never heard of anyone going to that level of protection/caution (whatever you want to call it). I guess i would have thought that there would have been much more of a chance picking up bacteria at any other stage than one quick snip with the scissors. 
During the course of several hours of brew day activity, i pick up/put down/touch many things that have nothing to do with brewing (tv remote,plates, knives and forks from lunch blah blah blah) and i don't brew in rubber gloves or sanitise my hands after everything i touch...Just wondering where it all ends???

Having said that, i humbly respect you and the other more experienced brewers that have come before me and therefore stand corrected.

I'm off to have a beer....


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## bum (22/9/10)

I'm not trying to pick an argument, Nath. Serious question that deserved a serious answer rather than empty mollification. 

For what it is worth I suspect that the reason it is often advised that scissors be sanitary is because the edge of the cut is pretty much the only thing you can guarantee will come into contact with nearly every yeast cell pitched. This probably isn't such a secondary concern when you consider that maybe SWMBO cut the plastic from the thawed chicken with those scissors yesterday (right after whatever the nose-picking kids did with them). Wyeast even suggest sanitising the yeast package itself. Is the risk small? Possibly. Is the effort required small? Definitely. Up to each brewer to weigh up the pros and cons for themselves.


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## bignath (22/9/10)

bum said:


> I'm not trying to pick an argument, Nath. Serious question that deserved a serious answer rather than empty mollification.




EMPTY mollification? Where was that???

I merely adimitted i am wrong, and you are right. I honestly told you that i respect you and all of the wiser brewers on this forum than me. If you can't tell the difference between sincerity and a smart arse it's not my fault.
my above post was 100% honest. I didn't know it was "good practise" to worry about sanitising the scissors before cutting yeast packet. I've admitted it several times in the last couple of posts now...

Was there "mollification"? Absolutely.

Was it empty? Absolutely not.

The question you raised was a serious one, one that i answered seriously too (or tried to). I am not out to piss any one off, or to be a smart arse. That will get everyone nowhere. I come to these forums to learn, which is exactly what i have done today. 

I refuse to take this post off topic any further as i feel this shit is helping absolutely no-one.


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## thylacine (22/9/10)

Re: "...I refuse to take this post off topic any further as i feel this shit is helping absolutely no-one..."

Tired of 'negative' user comments? Many others must be too. ie. the site provides an "ignore" user setting.

Click on "My Controls" which is located in the top left panel, just under the Logged in as:
Scroll down to the "Options" section and select "Manage Ignored Users", then add the names of your 'banned' users


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## bum (22/9/10)

If that's the case, Nath, I withdraw the statement but I do have to say your proclamation of your innocence is reading in the same tone that makes me doubt your sincerity. 

I gotta say that the useless shit that is helping no one started long before this little semantic tangent. Probably around the point where someone who admits they were talking out of their arse decided to tell people following cautious advice that they are "paranoid". But, hey, I guess I'm the dickhead yet again. My apologies to anyone whose little bubble of ignorance was nearly in danger of being popped.

Rub dog shit on your can openers. It is good yeast nutrient.


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## manticle (22/9/10)

bum said:


> If that's the case, Nath, I withdraw the statement but I do have to say your proclamation of your innocence is reading in the same tone that makes me doubt your sincerity.



Thought it was pretty reasonable myself. This thread is starting to look like a mess.

As for the whole sanitation issue - every brewer needs to work out for themselves what level they want to take it to. Never had an infection? Boiling water works for you? Great. Keep doing what you're doing. May not be the best advice for a new brewer though - they should know the options and select whaat works for them from that. If they want to cut corners, it's up to them but at least they should know what corners are being cut so they can make that decision knowingly.

I'm pretty full on with my regime because I did have some infections last summer that were a bitch to get rid of. Throwing away decalitres of full mash beer is depressing. If you're lucky enough to have never experienced it then that's great. I, on the hand have and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.


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## ribsmasherau (22/9/10)

I hope my thread has not caused all this argueing i have taken in alot of usefull info i dont believe my brews were infected in any way now and was just me being new not knowing the strange smell and personaly if i am spending $30-$40 on a brew and if theres a slight chance of infection because of what i open the yeast with or anything i would rather spend the few mins to sanatise and know i am not wasting my money thankyou once again everyone for your help.


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## manticle (22/9/10)

The internet has caused all this arguing. Don't worry about it.


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## kelbygreen (22/9/10)

rocky dont worry about the banter its not you, It is a shame as i want to help people but after 2 pages of crap I close the page and its not the OP fault, I also dont want to post as its usually been said 3 pages after the crap and just gets repeated. 

As for the sanitation I belive its a must, some areas have more air born crap and yeasts that can get into your brew so for one to say that they just rinse in hot water and its fine is ok for them but as manticle said he has had infections and I am sure that he did sanitise and clean well and still had a infection so it all depends where you are and where you brew as one thing in the surrounding area could coarse a infection.


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## DangerousDave (22/9/10)

when i started i used to tear open the packets with my teeth

true story

:lol:


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## pk.sax (22/9/10)

Lmao. That takes the cake. Tearing open by teeth lol

Btw, since there has been such a discussion on sanitation, I might risk asking a question. If you spray sanitiser on the kitchen bench/walls/floor etc, it's not a waste of sanitiser is it?
I ask because I am using brewshield diluted to instructions (maybe a little stronger) - i.e. H2O2 soln. Is this even effective to sanitize work surfaces etc? I know if I spray it into a bucket/fermenter and closethe lid its gonna end up oxygenating the whole thing bu how about open surfaces? Anybody know about this?


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## JunkzOr (23/9/10)

As a noob brewer I'd like to add my 2c about sanitation. I had read a few horror stories and also many many posts and even comments from my brewer mates that sanitation is probably the most important part of making homebrew beer. When I started out, I bought some commercial grade sanitiser from bunnings that I use on my bench tops, sink etc before I start my prep, and everything and I mean *everything* else gets a spray of diluted no-rinse sanitiser including the pair of scissors I bought just for opening the yeast packets and hell.. I even spray the shifter I use to tighten up the tap! Call me paranoid or call it best practice, but After bottling my second beer nothing has gone horrendously wrong yet. 

I plan to continue with the habit of sanitising everything.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (23/9/10)

My brother had an infection recently. I usually help him brew, but what happened is despite lots of sanitation at the brewing stage, he then decided about a week in the fermenter to add unpasteurised apple juice and cinnamon to his brew without boiling any of it.

Infection in, beer thrown out. It was truly awful. Waited about 2 months to see if it came good, but I tried it after the 2 months and it was infected.

I've always sanitised religiously and in 12 years never had an infection. OTT? Paranoid? Probably, but the circumstantial evidence I have satisfies me that I'm doing it right.

And let's face it, this brewing caper has produced so many variations on a theme, then why not sanitisation being a personal method as well?

Goomba


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## JestersDarts (23/9/10)

Well I havent showered in 5 years, 

Its lucky that I dont stink.

However, others tell me I do stink, 

but I guess I'm lucky, cos I can't smell it.


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## colonel (25/9/10)

Well, what a can of worms (or, is that alien bacteria?) I opened.

Sorry Nath, for letting you take all the heat, first time I've looked since posting my reply.

It looks like it all got a bit out of control.

I think I did say in my original post, that it may depend where you live. It's cool and fresh where I live, in fact, I hang my lambs in the shed (next to the beer) for a week before cutting them up.

I honestly believe that we as a society are risking our own, and our future generations health, by the over use of chemicals. This includes the un-needed use of sterilizers, (of course, if you need to use them, that's fine, but don't assume), and also, we do not use surface sprays or disinfectants in the kitchen. Yes, the mother in law hates me too!

Nath, I also agree with you that those people who assume that because "we don't autoclave our scissors, and hold our breath when bottling so as to not let any impure air into the bottles", can't make decent beer, have been sniffing their own armpits too long!

Let's all have a beer and try to relax!

Thanks for the entertaining thread
.

Cheers

Colonel.

P.S. just for the record, I still open the yeast with my teeth, have done so for 307 brews.
Is it supposed to harm me, or the beer?




JestersDarts said:


> Well I havent showered in 5 years,
> 
> Its lucky that I dont stink.
> 
> ...


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## bignath (25/9/10)

colonel said:


> Sorry Nath, for letting you take all the heat, first time I've looked since posting my reply.




No need for the apology fella! 

I led with the chin on my posts and am more than responsible for the smackdown that ensued


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## felten (26/9/10)

In every single interview I've listened to with professional brewers and award winning homebrewers, when asked what the most important aspect of brewing is they always say sanitation, maybe they're just making it up to sell sanitiser.

btw starsan is eco friendly, its just an acid based sanitiser (probably the same thing that the milk industry uses to sanitise their equipment)


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