# Ferment, condition and pressurise in one vessel



## amarks6 (6/10/16)

Check out this bit of kit.

Has anybody used one - or seen one in action?


----------



## malt junkie (6/10/16)

a lot of micros and larger breweries used them (unitanks) 
from a home brew point of view the vessel you linked is a tad exy and probably a tad big and you'd also need a glycol chiller and control.

(Flame suit firmly secured) Williams warn do a pressure rated fermenter conical (single batch) with temp control for around the same price, they also have listed (but yet to be released) a 50L pressure fermenter keg based conical (noise is it'll come in around $1100)

Other than that I haven't seen a Uni at HB size or reasonable price point.


Myself I couldn't drink 13 kegs of the same beer

Mike


----------



## Tahoose (6/10/16)

Not conical but I have just knocked up a 50ltr pressurised stainless steel fermenter.


----------



## Belgrave Brewer (6/10/16)

I've just ordered a couple of these 50L (70L with headspace) jacketed conical fermentors. The photo shows the 100L, with the 50L on the left side half out of the pic.

I'm building a nano/pilot brewing system from scratch, and these vessels would do what you require and are much smaller. I think they also make a 200L version, then sizes at micro level.

Still pretty pricey, but a fraction of that price.


----------



## Dae Tripper (6/10/16)

Where from?


----------



## jeremy (6/10/16)

Funnily enough I just saw this advertised on the ANHC Facebook the other day and thought it was one hell of a good idea:

http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/

A pressurized PET conical fermenter with a bottle at the bottom for removing / harvesting yeast, and a floating dip tube to draw beer from the top of the vessel rather than the bottom. Genius.

I mean, practicality suggests that it wont replace 5 stainless kegs in my chest freezer due to the dimensions of the vessel, but I think it has the makings of a game changer. If they could do this sucker for <$100...


----------



## jeremy (6/10/16)

No affiliation, etc, etc. Thought it might be of interest.


----------



## malt junkie (6/10/16)

Belgrave Brewer said:



> I've just ordered a couple of these 50L (70L with headspace) jacketed conical fermentors. The photo shows the 100L, with the 50L on the left side half out of the pic.
> 
> I'm building a nano/pilot brewing system from scratch, and these vessels would do what you require and are much smaller. I think they also make a 200L version, then sizes at micro level.
> 
> Still pretty pricey, but a fraction of that price.


Who's the supplier/manufacturer? And what do you call pricey?


----------



## sp0rk (6/10/16)

Tahoose said:


> Not conical but I have just knocked up a 50ltr pressurised stainless steel fermenter.
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpeg


Did you anneal the edges of the top hole before beating it upwards?
I'm very tempted to give this a go


----------



## Belgrave Brewer (6/10/16)

Dae Tripper said:


> Where from?





malt junkie said:


> Who's the supplier/manufacturer? And what do you call pricey?


They are from Brew-Tek. US company with offices in China where they are manufactured. Sales from http://www.brew-tek.com.au/ .

With shipping, port charges, taxes, etc., right around the $2000 mark each. Pressure rated to 2 bar. The 100L aren't much more and my plan is to buy a few of those next year. They also make non-jacketed versions which come in a little cheaper.


----------



## amarks6 (6/10/16)

jeremy said:


> Funnily enough I just saw this advertised on the ANHC Facebook the other day and thought it was one hell of a good idea:
> 
> http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/
> 
> ...


Are these on the market yet?


----------



## jeremy (6/10/16)

The post on the ANHC Facebook account says they "will be available from November" and they have noted that this will be available from KegKing. Looking again I can see that the KegKing Facebook account has responded to a question on this thread with the following:

"The Price will most likely be under AUD$200"

So not the $100 I was thinking would be good, but it should be good enough to attract some punters. Who knows, high sales might bring the price down.


----------



## doon (6/10/16)

These are made by kegking im pretty sure


----------



## contrarian (6/10/16)

Certainly looks interesting and nothing stopping you doing a transfer to a corny under pressure to keep your existing serving arrangement in place.


----------



## sp0rk (6/10/16)

doon said:


> These are made by kegking im pretty sure


"made by"
Pretty sure Keg King source almost all of their stuff from random Alibaba sellers


----------



## jeremy (7/10/16)

Yeah, not "made by" KegKing, although if you believe the link I supplied above its not from a random Alibaba seller, its supposedly 100% Australian owned and operated.

Clever idea anyway, I think it will take off. Same idea as the OP vessel on a whole other level of scale and affordability.

Sorry for the thread hijack.


----------



## Feldon (7/10/16)

That 'Fermentasaurus' vessel is not made in China. Its a local job. From the makers website:

"Our production plant in Springvale, Victoria is home to the world’s first single stage PET blow moulding machine that is capable of manufacturing containers as large as 50 litres in size."

http://www.oxebar.com.au/the-oxebar-story/


----------



## Robbo2234 (7/10/16)

Wow clear kegs! 

That would be awesome. No more surprise empty kegs! 
http://www.oxebar.com.au/kegasaurus/
http://www.oxebar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/clear-keg-50l.jpg


----------



## SBOB (7/10/16)

Plus the stack really well. A bunch on a pallet and one or two under your shirt

http://www.oxebar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/50l-pallet-stack-chep_2.jpg


----------



## sp0rk (7/10/16)

How the **** did they get that pic of me?


----------



## malt junkie (7/10/16)

OT

It may well be the way of the future for home brewers kegging, especially if they come in at a close price point, obviously cleaning the buggers might be an issue, but with the right pump CIP the way commercials do now. I think it's going to be watch the space PET is fairly durable, so multiple uses of the kegs is a given but what that life span is will play a part in the HB community jumping on board.


I wait to hear more on the fermenters they might well replace my plastics.


----------



## Feldon (7/10/16)

Cleaning shouldn't be any more of an issue than cleaning a PET bottle. Just don't scrub it with anything even mildly abrasive and it should last for years. Overnight sodium percarbonate soak should do the trick no worries.


----------



## Danscraftbeer (7/10/16)

I'm still very happy with my 50lt kegmenter from keg king. In a temp controlled fridge does everything you need or want it to.
Finish the beer naturally carbonated. Chill it. You could drink it off the yeast cake in the same vessel but I think its much better pressure transferring into 18lt serving kegs. Get it off the yeast cake. With a bit of DIY nous you can do everything these kits do for the price in hundreds, not thousands of $$$.
I like no exposure at all. I harvest yeast directly into PET bottles using carb caps. I simple direct transfer sterile water into the emptied kegmenter, swirl it around to wash it then transfer back into pet bottles. Its bloody awesome.
My little thread amongst others: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/89407-kegmenter-are-they-good-to-use/page-2


----------



## malt junkie (7/10/16)

Feldon said:


> Cleaning shouldn't be any more of an issue than cleaning a PET bottle. Just don't scrub it with anything even mildly abrasive and it should last for years. Overnight sodium percarbonate soak should do the trick no worries.


I was talking their kegs which are A or D couple, no real easy access, and pet bottles don't have springs and vavles, and tubes.


----------



## peteru (9/10/16)

Pressure fermenting in the 35L PET conical and then transferring to a 30L PET keg sounds like the way to go. There might even be scope for 20-25L kegs for home brewing.

I'm pretty sure they would be able to adapt the fermenter top lid with ball lock posts and pressure relief valve to use with the PET kegs. Then they would have home brewers attention. Especially if they could supply the PET kegs at half the price of the 19L stainless kegs we all use now.


----------



## Tahoose (9/10/16)

sp0rk said:


> Did you anneal the edges of the top hole before beating it upwards?
> I'm very tempted to give this a go


Sorry spork I don't know what you mean by this so I'm going say no.

Works well, pressurised stainless fermenter for under $100.

Rated to 40psi before the prv kicks in.


----------



## sp0rk (9/10/16)

Tahoose said:


> Sorry spork I don't know what you mean by this so I'm going say no.
> 
> Works well, pressurised stainless fermenter for under $100.
> 
> Rated to 40psi before the prv kicks in.


Annealing is when you heat a metal up and alter its physical properties, in this instance to make it easier to bend
I will give this a go when I can source a new keg


----------



## Tahoose (10/10/16)

Where abouts are you located??


----------



## sp0rk (11/10/16)

West of Newcastle, NSW


----------



## Tahoose (12/10/16)

Ahh ok, hunter valley?? Spent a bit of time in singleton - great town that. 

Shame your not down here have plenty of kegs up for offer.


----------



## Meddo (17/10/16)

FYI according to Oxebar the fermentasaurus "should be in stores early in the new year" and dimensions are about 900mm high by 370mm OD.


----------



## peteru (17/10/16)

Bummer about the height. About 200mm too tall for my ferment fridge :-(


----------



## keedoery (8/12/16)

sp0rk said:


> "made by"
> Pretty sure Keg King source almost all of their stuff from random Alibaba sellers


Hello Sp0rk - Mayor of Pooptown, 

I rarely hop on this forum but i see we were mentioned in this posts and there seems to be some misinformation here.

There is not a single thing that we purchase from Alibaba. You are right in saying that a large portion of our gear comes from China if that is what you are implying. A couple years ago we setup a Shanghai consolidation center and this is where the majority of our gear comes from. This was primarily because we have increasing demand for our products overseas and it's more efficient for us to ship from Shanghai than from Melbourne. There are plenty of home brew distributors overseas who have issues purchasing of Alibaba as the quality is variable to say the least. I wish we could get great quality gear from Alibaba but it's simply not that easy. Our Shanghai consolidation center is run by our Hong Kong registered company called AMCO Technology and the details for the company are here:
http://www.kegking.cn/

We have a number of our own staff in China who manage the consolidation center and coo-ordinate the various suppliers. Some of our products are quite complicated and will require several suppliers. For instance our Series 4 Fridges require coordination from a multitude of suppliers:
1. The fridge is manufactured by a fridge supplier who makes the fridge body
2. The Fonts are made by stainless pipe manufacturer then they are finished at our consolidation center.
3. The Intertap beer taps involve 3 different suppliers. There is a company that does the stainless casting and two other suppliers who look after all the seals and then we do the stainless machining then the assembly is done at our Shanghai facility.
4. The beer line is extruded by a company that specializes in extruding tubing and we do about 5-10km in a run
5. The injection molded drip tray comes from one of my business partners friends who does a number of injection molded parts from us.

Trust me. If it was as simple as just going to Alibaba and ordering a fridge we would do this but the reality is generic stuff sourced from Alibaba often turns out to be junk. I can tell you that from personal experience as we tried to order from Alibaba ourselves and it simply doesn't work.

Over the past 10 years of being in this industry we have found that the only way that we can control quality and make awesome products is by having staff on the ground in China, owning our own tooling, injection molds, stainless casts, jigs, machinery and doing the majority of the assembly and consolidation ourselves. This philosophy is the reason why we send containers of stock directly from our Shanghai DC to various distributors in New Zealand, UK, America, Canada, Philippines, South America and other countries. The vast majority of distributors that we now sell to are customers who started off by trying to source on Alibaba and have switched over to us because we now have a very well established consolidation center and we provide better quality gear than generic stuff sourced from Alibaba. 

Over the past 5 years in particular we have spent over 4 million in design and product development and we have heaps of cool stuff that is about to be released. The Fermentasaurus product is just about to hit the market and this production line to make these has been over 1.5mil alone to setup this business and none of it was from Alibaba. I think i can honestly say that we have spent more money on new product design and development than any other Home Brew Hardware wholesaler in Australia which is why there are a lot of new products that we have made and heaps more that are in the pipeline.


----------



## vittorio (8/12/16)

Uni tanks are good if used properly


----------



## keedoery (8/12/16)

With regards to the Fermentasaurus this is an exciting new product that as pointed out by some of the other forum members it's a product that is made in Springvale at our new blow molding and R&D facility.

We have been using these fermenters our self for a while now and we have been doing a lot of testing.

Being a pressure vessel the safety requirements are significantly more than your typical plastic fermenter.

We seem to be going a different directly to a lot of other manufacturers at the moment. If you look at SS Brewtech, iMake, Blickmann Eng. These guys all seem to be working on liquid cooled conical fermenters but in our opinion it's not the way to go. Glycol chillers can be a bit complicated and they do not heat and cool the fermenter as well as a fermenting fridge. They also draw a lot of power and its expensive to get sufficient insulation to be able to crash chill so you have limitations on how cold you can make the fermenter.

With these new fermenters we have decided that we will design a dedicated fermenting fridge to house these new fermenters.

There was not a standard fridge size that we were able to get "off the shelf" so we have designed our own fridge model which will have inbuilt heating and cooling. This new fridge design will not be available until late 2017







The fermenters themselves will start to flow out to the retail outlets in Feb next year.

The RRP on the fermenters will be about $129 for the basic kit and that will include everything in this image:






We will also sell a "pressure kit" for the fermenter that will include all the things in this image and this will be about AUD$40 or something:





We are still making some minor modifications to the floating dip tube and also the butterfly dump valve which is the main reason why we have not released the Fermentasaurus already but we are extremely close to having everything finished.


----------



## mtb (8/12/16)

With the collective buying power of AHB it sounds like a kegasaurus bulk buy is possible. I'd pick up *at least* one of these but likely more if there were plenty of lead time to save some pennies.


----------



## Bridges (8/12/16)

Hey KegKing thanks for chipping in with all that. Seriously it's great to hear from the horses mouth so to speak. Looking forward to hearing more from you!


----------



## malt junkie (8/12/16)

KegKing said:


> With regards to the Fermentasaurus this is an exciting new product that as pointed out by some of the other forum members it's a product that is made in Springvale at our new blow molding and R&D facility.
> 
> We have been using these fermenters our self for a while now and we have been doing a lot of testing.
> 
> ...


Have Keg King considered a thermowell for these? Or for the kegmenter?


----------



## TwoCrows (8/12/16)

And possibly a pressure spray ball cleaning attachment that runs of mains pressure.


----------



## sp0rk (8/12/16)

KegKing said:


> Hello Sp0rk - Mayor of Pooptown,


Thanks for the response guys, and for setting things straight 
I guess it's the other way around, random alibaba sellers are knicking your designs/products and selling them
Good to see you're improving on the quality of a lot of your gear too


----------



## peteru (8/12/16)

I can definitely back up Keg King on the "you have to have your own staff on the ground" statement. Over the years I've worked on projects where the manufacturing and assembly has been done in Asian countries. It's not good enough to trust the manufacturers. It's not even good enough to send someone over to supervise the production runs. All sorts of dodgy stuff goes on. If you are not directly in control of the QA process with your own trusted staff, you are going to run into trouble. Ideally you want to check pretty much every item that goes through and preferably at multiple points in the production line to ensure that there are no hidden surprises. For large volumes you want a statistically significant sample population.

As an example, about a decade ago we had a person go to China to supervise the production run of some electronic devices. Initially the pilot run produced product that was a bit on the rough side. We worked with the manufacturer to fix up the issues and ended up with samples that were supposed to be fixed up and representative of mass production. Once the production run started, our "delegate" on the ground was walked through the factory, shown everything working and inspected and OK'ed a few products coming off the production line. Then they were taken out to lunch. When they wanted to go back to the factory after lunch, they were told that the manufacturer has arranged a special entertainment / tour, whatever (corporate jolly) for them and that they can go back to the factory the next day. The next day, when they returned to the factory, they were told that the factory was working all night and the run was completed ahead of schedule. They brought out a few boxes for our rep. to inspect and it all looked fine. We had a few dozen boxes flown in for pre-release testing and the rest was loaded onto a ship. Fast forward a couple of months. The main shipment has been all paid for, delivered, cleared through customs and warehoused. Grabbed a few boxes from the warehouse and inspected them. Fark! The manufacturing was sloppy. Sharp edges on the enclosures, stripped screws, finger prints and smudges on front panel displays. On the inside, we found that the manufacturer did a dodgy and replaced proper twisted pair, shielded cables for front panel high-speed USB ports with a bit of cheap and nasty cable and did not correctly ground the connector. There were many other issues as well. We were screwed. The manufacturer was paid and did not want to help in any way. The cost of making right on each unit, including labour was about 30% of the original manufacturing cost and about 10% of the product was a total write off where it was only good enough for spare parts.

This was not the first or last time I've seen issues with Asian manufacturers. It's happened many times in China, Korea and other Asian countries.

So yeah, having stuff made in places like China or Korea might be cheap, but it's a lottery with very bad odds. You can improve those odds by having local presence and only sourcing components. Have total control over the final product wherever possible.


----------



## Jack of all biers (8/12/16)

I'm giddy like a school girl about this development. How did I miss the link back in October when it first came up. Oh well, and with the rough pricing, I'm even more interested. I haven't gone keg yet, but this would be a very good solution to my dilemma (to keg or not to keg, that is the question). This is that rose by another name. Thanks Keg King for the development into this idea. If only it fit in my fermenting fridge..... Now I'll be forced to find a cheap arse fridge that will fit a couple of these babies in. Oh yes I will......

EDIT - and thanks Jeremy for bringing it to our attention (even if some of us missed it the first time h34r: )

2nd EDIT - He must be a good bloke, because he's from Adelaide and knows which is the best brewery in Munich. Edelstoff all the way!


----------



## BKBrews (9/12/16)

Jesus..... I think I might hold off on my brewbucket purchase and buy two of the fermentasaurus when they're released instead!


----------



## Meddo (9/12/16)

KegKing said:


> With regards to the Fermentasaurus this is an exciting new product that as pointed out by some of the other forum members it's a product that is made in Springvale at our new blow molding and R&D facility.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Looking good - at least one of these has my name written all over it.

Will you be adding volume markings to the production version?

Seconding the CIP suggestion, too.


----------



## wobbly (9/12/16)

From the face book page 

The breakthrough in this new design means that customers can finally naturally carbonate their clear conditioned beer in the Fermentasaurus and dispense directly to tap. No need to carbonate beer in the keg or bottle. You can drink directly from the Fermentasaurus saving time and hassle.

If these units are designed with "Fermenting under Pressure" in mind the "Pressure Kit" version only appears to have a pressure relief valve. Ideally you would also want some sort of "spudding valve"to control the fermentation pressure.

Also if/when fermenting "all grain wort" the sediment/yeast bottle at 500mils will be on the small side based on my experience with the Williamwarn which has a 900mil sediment/yeast bottle. 

A third point is that some sort of "Injection Port" would be useful to allow the introduction of "clarifying agent" without the need to de-pressurize and remove the top thereby exposing the brew to Oxygen. No big deal but one of the selling points with this sort of system is not exposing the finished beer to any oxygen and introducing a source of oxidation. 

Wobbly


----------



## malt junkie (9/12/16)

wobbly said:


> From the face book page
> 
> The breakthrough in this new design means that customers can finally naturally carbonate their clear conditioned beer in the Fermentasaurus and dispense directly to tap. No need to carbonate beer in the keg or bottle. You can drink directly from the Fermentasaurus saving time and hassle.
> 
> ...


Wobbly,
Changing the sediment bottle more frequently is a minor hindrance(certainly not $7000 worth), and I don't see how you missed the 2 ball lock fittings next to the relief valve, KK have a ball lock spunding valve, and either ball lock could be used for injection of clarification liquids. 

So the only point to your post I can see, is to again promote your favourite system.

quit while your ahead already.


----------



## Dae Tripper (9/12/16)

It has ball locks on it, there is your injection port. Just use a little pet bottle with a carb cap. And KK sell a spudding valve with a ball lock too.


----------



## peteru (9/12/16)

I'd be interested in those cool pants that the model is wearing.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/12/16)

malt junkie said:


> Have Keg King considered a thermowell for these?


You could weld one on yourself fairly easily, but that would probably bugger the pressure rating.

The blurb from KK above appears to indicate that these are blow moulded (as are most PET items), in that case incorporating a thermowell would probably make de-moulding a hassle.


----------



## wobbly (9/12/16)

malt junkie said:


> Wobbly,
> Changing the sediment bottle more frequently is a minor hindrance Agree - Just saying if you are producing/marketing a new system so why not cover/eliminate as many minor hindrances at the out set
> 
> I don't see how you missed the 2 ball lock fittings next to the relief valve, KK have a ball lock spunding valve I didn't miss them but nothing in the current "blurb" indicate you should/would also need to purchase something else to control the fermentation/carbonation pressure phases
> ...


----------



## Brownsworthy (9/12/16)

$129 + $29.95 or $7000 so who's so far ahead now?


----------



## manticle (9/12/16)

Let's just discuss the system at hand. There's no reason wobbly's experience with pressurised fermentation isn't relevant, nor should his original comments incite antagonism.


----------



## RobB (9/12/16)

Dae Tripper said:


> It has ball locks on it, there is your injection port. Just use a little pet bottle with a carb cap.....................(snip)


Maybe you could use a suction gun from an auto shop. http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Toledo-Suction-Gun-500ml-305227/SPO82509

These are essentially a giant syringe with a bit of tubing. I'm thinking that with a disconnect on the end, you could fill it with your fining solution and then invert it while you expel the air, a bit like nurses do with vaccines etc. This way you would not be connecting anything which contains air. Of course, it would have to be OK with the fermentation pressure and not have stinky rubber seals.

I must have too much time on my hands. I'm coming up with ghetto add-ons for products which haven't been released yet.


----------



## Brownsworthy (10/12/16)

manticle said:


> Let's just discuss the system at hand. There's no reason wobbly's experience with pressurised fermentation isn't relevant, nor should his original comments incite antagonism.


You're right manticle, wobbly's experience with pressurised fermentation is relevant and he made some good points.I shouldn't have been such an arse about it just trying to point out that you could do essentially the same thing for $158.95.


----------



## manticle (10/12/16)

Sure. And that point is valid too IF discussing pros and cons of each system.

Since this system is still being developed and one of the developers reads and posts in this thread, wobbly's suggestions may benefit future purchasers who will get bang for their buck.

Wasn't just you by the way brownsworthy but thanks for acknowledging.


----------



## Brownsworthy (10/12/16)

Cheers mate,I'll hopefully be able to speak of those pros and cons of the fermetasaurus as I will be purchasing one when released. I guess until I have experience with pressurised fermentation I'll keep my biased(because im a tight arse) opinions to myself.


----------



## Jack of all biers (10/12/16)

Keg king. Just a thought, how UV stable is the long chain PET plastics you use. Obviously not a big deal if it's not, but another selling point if it's been tested and good to know for the purchaser if it's not.


----------



## Jack of all biers (6/2/17)

KegKing said:


> We have been using these fermenters our self for a while now and we have been doing a lot of testing.
> 
> We are still making some minor modifications to the floating dip tube and also the butterfly dump valve which is the main reason why we have not released the Fermentasaurus already but we are extremely close to having everything finished.


Hey KegKing, how's the testing of the fermenters going? Any update on a release date? Also, for the design of the fridge, maybe include an internal fan to increase the efficiency of the heating/cooling (telling you how to suck eggs probably).


----------



## CJW (7/2/17)

Jack of all biers said:


> Keg king. Just a thought, how UV stable is the long chain PET plastics you use. Obviously not a big deal if it's not, but another selling point if it's been tested and good to know for the purchaser if it's not.


Surprised by the lack of comments about the fermentation chamber, that sounds great.

But regarding the conical, I worry about UV skunking the beer, has any testing been done regarding that?


----------



## peteru (8/2/17)

I've done some informal testing on skunking.

It takes less than 5 minutes in direct Australian sunlight in winter to skunk about 400mL of beer in a clear container. And not just a slight hint of skunk, but a full on "That's not the beer I poured 5 minutes ago! Yuck!" reaction.

If your container is not a UV blocking type, you'd better keep it in the dark or only expose it to LED lighting. I'd say that even bottling the beer in a brightly lit room has the potential to wreak havoc if your fermenter/priming vessel is not UV safe.

I would have not believed how bad light strike can get until I tested it for myself.


----------



## peteru (8/2/17)

I should add that as a result of this skunking experiment, I now do evening/night time brews, store/cool cubes in the dark, pitch yeast at night and only open the fermenting fridge to take samples and keg the beer after dark.

I reckon that UV should be feared as much as O2 is.


----------



## keedoery (20/2/17)

This product has already been finished and it's been released and we have already put some stock in our retail store and also sending a pallet of the fermenters to Grain and Grape soon. We have not really promoted them yet as we don't have enough stock. We already have pending orders to several retailers in Europe, America and Canada which we have not been able to clear yet.

We have been a bit busy with a lot of new gear that we are trying to finish on the horizon so haven't even had a chance to take new photos and upload to the website. Hopefully we can do that this week.

We will do a video soon and also upload to YouTube when we get around to it. There seems to be a few questions that need answering in the meantime:

1 - UV and skunking
We can easily tint to the plastic to block UV if that is what the market calls for. As we manufacture our own preforms onsite we can easily add tint to the preforms in one very simple step. We can make the plastic jet black if that's what customers want or we can use some really cool liquid metal additives such as ones like this which block close to 100% UV:
http://www.ampacet.com/seven-new-liquidmetal-colors-for-highly-reflective-pet-packaging/

The only issue is that this would also mean you can't see inside the fermenter which is one of the great benefits of these fermenters over stainless steel. I recommend that you get around this by simply putting the fermenter in a fridge which is what i would recommend to anyone who is serious about temperature control. I personally have been using the Fermentasaurus for some time and really love the fact that i can see at what stage the brewing process is up to. I have not had any light struck issues but i use a dark fridge to ferment in so it's not an issue for me.

2. UV Stability of the long chain PET
The PET that we use is very stable under UV and when treated correctly it will last customers a very long time. With that said, as mentioned in answer "1" i would always recommend fermenting in a dark fridge. The body of the fermenter is however eventually going to wear out and this can be replaced for AUD$39.95 so it's not expensive to replace if it's damaged for whatever reason. I think they will last most home brewers several years before needing to be replaced.

3. O2 Ingress
The blend of PET that we use is significantly better than most plastic fermenters. It is significantly less that Polypropylene(PP) and Polyethylene(PE) which is what the majority of plastic fermenters are currently made from. PE (both LDPE and HDPE) are particularly bad and are orders of magnitude worse than PET with regards to gas permeability. There are some factors that improve our gas barrier properties when compared to other PET containers and a couple of these factors include:

a) We use high stretch ratio from preform to blow cavity on the molding. A high stretch ratio means we have high degree of molecular alignment. This helps with the burst pressures but it also improves gas barrier properties.

b) We use long molecular chain PET which is significantly more expensive as a raw material but it simply gives us better results with regards to burst pressures and gas permeability.


So basically what this comes down to is that gas permeability is really not an issue. If for some reason there is a demand for even better gas transmission rates (which i dont think there is any need for) then one very easy alteration is to coat the outside of the fermenter with an epoxy solution. There are several on the market that were heavily researched by Amcor and PPG in America but none of them ended up going into broad scale production as they were not seen to be necessary as there were better mono-layer solutions which have already proven to be suitable for beer storage in PET and have been adopted widely.

4. Cleaning and opening size
The opening is 80mm diameter. I can get my hand fairly easily into the top of the fermenter but it's really not necessary to and i would discourage you doing this. Manually scrubbing the fermenter will increase the chance of scratches. The internal wall of the PET container is very smooth and stuff just doesnt stick to it like other plastic fermenters. You will get a great clean just with sodium percarbonate and a short soak and rinse with phosphoric acid type of sanitiser. If however you just want to put your hand in the fermenter for some reason and you have fat hands they may not fit in but it's a good excuse to get your wife to clean your fermenter. It's extremly difficult to make a fermenter with an large opening which can handle high pressures. For instance even with the 80mm diameter opening it means that the lid is 50cm^2. As we felt that the fermenters should have a safe burst pressure of above 7 bar in order to have a safe working pressure at 2.5 bar that is a considerable force on the lid. 1 bar is 1kg per square cm so with a 50cm squared lid that is 50*7bar = 350 kg force on the lid. So it's a huge amount of force on the lid. For this same reason it's rare to see home brewing conical fermenters holding pressures high enough to carbonate. In my opinion the fact that this fermenter can safely handle a working pressure of 2.5bar is easily worth the constraint of the 80mm opening.

Overall we have worked really hard on getting this product to market. I hope you guys enjoy using it. I genuinely believe it will change the home brewing industry forever and bring a new level of convenience and quality to home brew.

If you have any other questions just call or email us. We don't check AHB very often so if you lodge a question here it may not get answered for some time.


----------



## Jack of all biers (21/2/17)

Thanks KegKing. Will keep an eye out for the official release.


----------



## crowmanz (24/2/17)

ikegger have them up on their website $179 https://www.ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/conical-fermenter-35l-uni-tank-with-ball-lock-posts

strange not on KK yet


----------



## Zeener (24/2/17)

crowmanz said:


> ikegger have them up on their website $179 https://www.ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/conical-fermenter-35l-uni-tank-with-ball-lock-posts
> 
> strange not on KK yet


They are now http://kegking.com.au/fermentasaurus-starter-kit.html


----------



## Jack of all biers (25/2/17)

KegKing said:


> The fermenters themselves will start to flow out to the retail outlets in Feb next year.
> 
> The RRP on the fermenters will be about $129 for the basic kit and that will include everything in this image:
> 
> ...


It's interesting to compare the test model above with the final version. 






KegKing said:


> We will also sell a "pressure kit" for the fermenter that will include all the things in this image and this will be about AUD$40 or something:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





KegKing you are of your word; late Feb release, $129 & $40 retail, butterfly valve and float valve being modified for improvement, which can be seen in both final products. Well done. I'm particularly pleased you have researched, developed and manufactured it in Australia. Now I still only need to find a fridge that one will fit in that won't break the bank. Late 2017 you say....



KegKing said:


> With these new fermenters we have decided that we will design a dedicated fermenting fridge to house these new fermenters.
> 
> There was not a standard fridge size that we were able to get "off the shelf" so we have designed our own fridge model which will have inbuilt heating and cooling. This new fridge design will not be available until late 2017


----------

