# Oxygen Options In Australia?



## mobrien (17/6/07)

Hi all,

I've just been reading (and listening to TBN) about wort aeration and I'm convinced enough to give it a try. Does anyone know where you can easily (and preferably cheaply) get O2 cylinders in Au?

M


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

I should add, I do see craftbrewer has the airstone, inline flter, tubing etc... along with a suitable air pump. What I'm specifically asking about is the small O2 cylinders that are available in the US - I think they are disposable or like the sodastream, swap and go..... Do we have anything like that, or as usual are the options much more limited?

M


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/6/07)

In theory you would need medical grade Oxygen

Not hard to get, but is the cost ( Rental, re-fill, gauges etc ) going to be worth it...?

Depends how rich you are


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

Thats just it $$ are the issue! - the craftbrewer system looks good - however, I like the idea of oxygen - it seems its fairly cheap in the US.. but I suspect that it just won't be fiscally viable over here...

M


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## Jye (17/6/07)

Im pretty sure your talking about the Bernzomatic oxygen cylinders and no you can not get them here :angry: Bunnings stock the MAPP gas and propane but I have never asked if they can get the oxygen ones.

I was at the RBH last year doing some work and found a 95% O2 5%co2 cylinder the same as Bernzomatic which they use for calibration of instrumentation, but it only contained about 10g (I think the bernzomatic are 330g). I grabbed an empty one so I could chase up the supply but never did.


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

yeah - I think thats the one Jye. Just found you can get it from these guys (well you could in 2006):
http://www.heatcraft.com.au/priceguide/PriceGuide.pdf

They have a local Brisbane office - might try them

If they are able to be got, i could see the point in picking up the O2 kit from morebeer while i'm in the states....

M


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## kirem (17/6/07)

I use the craftbrewer system on my yeast cultures. This one is a wyeast 3787.
View attachment 13233


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## JSB (17/6/07)

Yep Craftbrewer set up here too !! works a treat......

Cheers
JSB


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## Jye (17/6/07)

mobrien said:


> yeah - I think thats the one Jye. Just found you can get it from these guys (well you could in 2006):
> http://www.heatcraft.com.au/priceguide/PriceGuide.pdf
> 
> They have a local Brisbane office - might try them
> ...



If we can get the cylinders I know a friendly sponsor who could possible get the O2 kit imported


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

Jye said:


> If we can get the cylinders I know a friendly sponsor who could possible get the O2 kit imported



Well there is also that too! Wonder if anyone is reading this 

I'm over there for the next month - daresay I'll have to buy some stuff while I am there - how could I help myself?!

M


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## bonj (17/6/07)

I read on some US forum from some guy that had done a stack of brewing courses in USA and Germany, that said that it is very easy to over oxygenate with a cylinder, and that it is pretty much impossible with air. He reckoned that the airstone with aquarium pump is the best option. Can't find it now, so I can't back any of it up. Anyone else have the link?


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

Bonj said:


> I read on some US forum from some guy that had done a stack of brewing courses in USA and Germany, that said that it is very easy to over oxygenate with a cylinder, and that it is pretty much impossible with air. He reckoned that the airstone with aquarium pump is the best option. Can't find it now, so I can't back any of it up. Anyone else have the link?



I've also read that (can't find it either) - and that you can't stuff it with an airstone and aquarium pump.

BUT... if you do the cylinder right, you have less lid open time, and decreased chance of bubbling "other stuff" through the beer... thats my reason for looking at the cylinder.

M


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## bonj (17/6/07)

Makes sense.


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## Jye (17/6/07)

Dave Logsdon Of Wyeast gave a presentation here last year which showed that there is no difference between using a pump with air stone compared to shaking.

The whole presentation can be found at the BJCP under 'Copies of presentations on: Yeast', and is well worth a look.


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

Jye said:


> Dave Logsdon Of Wyeast gave a presentation here last year which showed that there is no difference between using a pump with air stone compared to shaking.
> 
> The whole presentation can be found at the BJCP under 'Copies of presentations on: Yeast', and is well worth a look.
> 
> View attachment 13242



Nice! Some more things to read!

Thanks!

M


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

Ok - thats very very cool. Even a picture of the Bernzomatic cylinder as the "best" option!

What really impresses me is you could pretty much specifiy the ppm oxygen in the wort by using the time/conc graph in the presentation, so could set up the wort exactly for the yeast and flavour profile you are after.

So, gotta find the bernzomatic cylinders now - will phone around Monday morning.

M


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## mobrien (17/6/07)

and I meant to add, according to the Equipment show on the brewing network, a cylinder does 10 or so brews.... thats $4 a brew if the cylinder is $40. That almost seems worth it to me.


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## sam (17/6/07)

I haven't looked at this in a little while, but as far as I know the easiest source of O2 in Aus is oxygen cylinders from Air Liquide or other gas providers. I still don't think there is any difference between medical grade and industrial grade oxygen apart from the cylinder itself, but happy to be corrected. 

I don't think you can get those little tacker bottles in Australia. A big bottle (9kg) cost about ~$120 +yearly rental. But who knows with the recent CO2 price rises I've been hearing about back home. And you need a specific regulator which is about another $150 or so. So it is an expensive exercise.

I use an aquarium pump now, and am happy with it. I used to use oxygen when I access to it, and was happy with that too.

With your concerns about lid open time, I don't think its a problem if your using an aquarium pump with the lid on with a gap for the tube. The positive pressure from the pump should stop anything getting in, and you could cover the small gap with some gladwrap or similar? 

And the other stuff that's bubbling through along with the oxygen from the aquarium pump; nitrogen, shouldn't be a problem, inert in beer?; argon, inert; co2, no probs there. So I don't see any issues with that. Use an inline filter and it should be fine.

Anyway, good luck with your search for oxygen bottles. It is cool. I enjoyed using pure O2, and would again, except it's freakin' expensive using the big bottles.

sam


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## Trent (17/6/07)

I have been using O2 and a 0.5 micron airstone, though I was overdoing it for a while, and alot of my beers exhibited bad oxidation notes after a few months (about 4-6 weeks for my APA's). I was using 4-5 mins at about 2L/min, I managed to get a regulator from a friend of mine. The O2 cost $35 for a D size cylinder (will last you YEARS), and $9.10 per month. I have been speaking with a friend in a pro brewery who advocates "air for the home brewery, O2 for the pro brewery", especially after I suffered a series of stuck and slow ferments.
If you wanna go down the O2 road, see if you know anyone in the medical industry, I believe alot of them use O2 reg's for patients, and you may even be able to get an old one off them. Dont know the legal ramifications of that, though, but it cannot hurt to ask (I assume they have to update them every so often?). I get my O2 through BOC, though I have to admit, I have found no real advantage over using my electric whisk to stir the hell outta the wort. That leaves the lid completely off for a few minutes, but as long as you have good yeast, you will find that you should not get a long lag time, nor an infection.
IF you wanna go the O2 cylinder route here (the cheapest option if ya can get a reg), they arent too keen on giving out O2 cylinders without a doctors prescription. Tell em it is for beer, and they will push you towards CO2. Then tell em it is actually O2 you need, for wort aeration so the yeast can take in the oxygen to start the uptake of lipids and sterols to reproduce and give a healthy, clean fermentation. They will then probably give you a blank look (they did to me) and then say "oh...OK", and you will have your O2. They just like to know you arent going to make bombs with it or something.
All the best
Trent


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## mobrien (18/6/07)

OK - found a supplier in Bris for the bernzomatic cylinders $32.20 each in quantity lots. Should I organise a brissy bulk buy (or [palm it off to craftbrewer?!)

M


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## bonj (18/6/07)

I'd be interested to know what else is required for a working system. 

What kind of "quantity" are they talking? 
How hard will it be to find interest for replacements after the initial buy? 

If the cylinders last ~10 brews, they will be an on-going requirement for anyone that adopts them. We all brew at different rates, which would mean subsequent buys will be smaller (or buying more each, which could work). 

I would expect craftbrewer to put approximately 100% markup on them to make them worth their while. Would they still be an attractive proposition at that price?

At $32.20, I'm definitely interested.


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## mobrien (18/6/07)

OK - the other stuff you would need is basically "The oxynater" available from such places as http://www.northernbrewer.com/aeration.html or http://morebeer.com/view_product/16604/

As far as quality - this is the cylinder morebeer, the brewing network, white labs all reccomend - I'm gussing its ok!

Ongoing costs would be, as you say, $32 every ten brews - for me that means a cylinder every year or so - I'd buy two and get them in muliples as such.

The craftbrewer markup is a fair piont - however, the price I am getting is a discounted retail - I would assume the place I'm going through would be getting 100% markup, so craftbrewer's price could end up being similar - I can't buy wholesale, so this is all conjecture, until Ross chimes in. From my perspective, I'd rather spend $35 with Ross than $32 with the mob I rang.

M


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## bonj (18/6/07)

Ahh.. I assumed it was a wholesale price. I totally agree that if they can do that sort of price, craftbrewer hypothetically should be able to get somewhere near that. And I know who I'd rather send my dollars to.


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## Jye (18/6/07)

$3 a brew is to much for me now but I maybe interested further down the line.


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## sam (18/6/07)

Good find mobrien.


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## Andyd (18/6/07)

Hi all,

I'm in the middle of a fairly big experiment to try to determine the efficacy of various common homebrew mechanisms for aeration, looking at getting quantitative results for variables including mechanisms for O2 introduction, time of exposure etc.

It's taking a while to run, as I want to make sure that all thr controls are valid and the experiements are repeatable, but it will be interestingn to get the final results out.

Once I've finished I'll be writing it up and will post some results

Andy


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## mobrien (18/6/07)

Andy,

Great! I look forward to the results! Have you read the stuff from whitelabs posted by Jye above? The link is posted above anyway.

Any preliminary results?

M


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## mobrien (18/6/07)

As always, Ross (craftbrewer) has been listening to us and is now on the case - stay tuned! I'm sure he will post here once he has any info for us!

M


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## BENJAMOO (18/6/07)

Hi guys,

Not strictly related to beer but below is how we brew up yeast at the winery I work for and thought it might be of interest.

We propagate our yeast cultures using 1kg of yeast in 10,000 litres of grape juice, and simply aerate them with filtered compressed air throttled back via a flowmeter. Delivery into the juice is via an airstone - albeit a bloody big one! When the yeast start to take off they lap the air up and go bezerk.

Once cell numbers are high enough the main juice tank gets inoculated with a percentage (around 2-3%) of this yeast & after the ferment is well underway we aerate this too simply by mixing the tank with a pump with a venturi stuck in-line sucking air.

O2 is the real deal but air does work extremely well and we only get the odd slow/stuck ferment - Plus it's free!

Cheers
Ben


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## Andyd (19/6/07)

M,

No results yet - the family's been really ill the last week, and I've got to get a belgian duibbel racked into the keg before I get really started, but it shouldn't be long now.A lot of the work will have been done by the end of the weekend I'm hoping, then the write-up 

Andy


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## Bulmershe (21/6/07)

Guys,
I thought I would google for oxygen cylinders in Australia and see what I could find. 

:excl: I came across a safety alert from the TGA relating to Oxygen regulator fires resulting from incorrect use of CGA 870 seals. If you are contemplating using oxygen cylinders, it might be worth a few minutes to read up on the fires caused by reusing "single use" washers between the regulator and the cylinder.

Safety Alert: Oxygen regulator fires resulting from incorrect use of CGA 870 seals :blink:


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## tangent (21/6/07)

nice work Bulmershe :beer: interesting read


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## Yob (13/7/15)

Necro..

I notice that bunnings have quite large O2 tanks.. can these be fitted with an inline filter and used?


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## tavas (13/7/15)

This one?
http://www.bunnings.com.au/tradeflame-930ml-oxygen-gas-cartridge-_p5910241

Yes you can. You need the Tradeflame regulator. the Bernzomatic ones do not fit.


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## Yob (13/7/15)

na man, these ones were much bigger.. kinda welding bottle sized..


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## Yob (13/7/15)

swap and go Oxy


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## mfeighan (13/7/15)

http://www.bunnings.com.au/coregas-trade-n-go-size-d-oxygen-gas-_p5910224

this one?


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## Yob (13/7/15)

Yessir


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## mfeighan (13/7/15)

looks good, but will need proper regulator etc, how much is the security deposit on it though


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## Yob (13/7/15)

$200 refundable deposit, $69 for the oxygen..

2.1 cubic metres of oxygen


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## BJB (13/7/15)

Good deal there! Wish they would get in C02 as well.


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## davo4772 (13/7/15)

What would be the regulator options for the coregas?


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## mofox1 (13/7/15)

Bloody hell. Cheap as.

Any concerns on whether or is "clean" enough?


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## Yob (13/7/15)

Inline filter?


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## DJ_L3ThAL (13/7/15)

mofox1 said:


> Bloody hell. Cheap as.
> 
> Any concerns on whether or is "clean" enough?


If it's not clean as shit I'd be scared.

http://www.astm.org/Standards/G93.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUIUo1bzuk


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## zappa (13/7/15)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> If it's not clean as shit I'd be scared.


We've obviously got very different diets then.


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## zappa (13/7/15)

FWIW, based on the datasheet available from that bunnings URL above, it's classified as O;R8. That's the same classification they use for medical oxygen.


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## kaiserben (3/8/15)

I'm trying to organise a pure oxygen set up. 

I read through a few old threads ... but hoping for advice and/or reassurance that I'm buying stuff that's going to do what I think it will). 

I've already gone ahead and bought this regulator http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DISPOSABLE-GAS-BOTTLE-REGULATOR-CO2-CARBON-DIOXIDE-ARGON-HOME-BREW-BEER-AQUARIUM-/301607330336 (note 6mm barb adaptor) 

I was hoping to then use the Tradeflame disposable oxygen canisters from Bunnings (http://www.bunnings.com.au/tradeflame-930ml-oxygen-gas-cartridge-_p5910241) (which I think, from previous forum posts and kits previously sold at a few LHBSs, that particular regulator above will attach to). 

I'll buy a 2 micron air stone from a LHBS (which I assume has a 6mm barb)

And then get some 6mm clear vinyl tubing, http://www.bunnings.com.au/pope-6mm-x-5m-clear-vinyl-tubing_p3130561  

No need for a filter? (images I've seen of this same set up on LHBS websites suggest not, but I did see the "Fermentap" version includes a filter).
Is clear vinyl tubing an okay material? And 6mm is the correct size that I'm looking for?


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## Camo6 (3/8/15)

If you can, source some aquarium silicone hose. it's a bit of a squeeze to get it on the barb but it's low memory and will drop to the bottom of the fermentor and not coil or harden like vinyl tubing can. I've got an inline filter for peace of mind.


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## kaiserben (3/8/15)

Ah - good tip!


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## fraser_john (3/8/15)

Yob said:


> $200 refundable deposit, $69 for the oxygen..
> 
> 2.1 cubic metres of oxygen


That is a lot of oxygen for just $69! Makes it affordable to even the cheapest scottish ancestried brewers around ... h34r: 

I'm not cheap, I just have deep pockets and short fingers.


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## kaiserben (7/8/15)

I've now got all the stuff for an oxygen kit. 
For anyone wanting to buy all this themselves I'll just to run through all the items/prices:
* $37.20 (inc delivery) for a regulator: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DISPOSABLE-GAS-BOTTLE-REGULATOR-CO2-CARBON-DIOXIDE-ARGON-HOME-BREW-BEER-AQUARIUM-/301607330336 
* $12 for the air stone: http://www.thebrewshop.com.au/2-micron-stainless-steel-air-stone.html
* $0.90 (+$8.50 delivery, LOL) for 1m of 6mm silicon aquarium hosing: http://www.theaquariumshop.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=5210&name=Aquarium%20Silicone%20Rubber%20Tubing 
* $50 for some pure O2: http://www.bunnings.com.au/tradeflame-930ml-oxygen-gas-cartridge-_p5910241 
Total cost of $108.60. 

The diffusion stone's barb and the regulator's barb are different sizes :unsure:. The 6mm (inner diameter) aquarium silicon hosing fits nice and tightly over the air stone's barb, but only just makes a seal over the regulator barb, so I'll use a hose clamp at the regulator end (assuming I won't need one at the air-stone end). and hopefully that's all there is to it.


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## GalBrew (7/8/15)

Isn't that reg for CO2? I would also include an O2 flow metre.


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## kaiserben (7/8/15)

It has a flow meter on it, but ... ah bugger! It's a CO2/Argon regulator. I guess it'll be another week before I can use pure O2.


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## kaiserben (7/8/15)

It seems to be the same regulator as used here http://www.barleyman.com.au/oxygen-kit.html and by a few forum members here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/83564-tradeflame-930ml-oxygen-cylinder/ 

Can anyone advise if it's safe to use? (I don't want to be Capt Risky here).


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## desitter (7/8/15)

I have the same regulator and Bunnings O2 bottle and have not had any problems.


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## Boozed (7/8/15)

Highly recommend this kit for O2
http://www.brewman.com.au/web/showproduct.asp?prodid=856


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## GalBrew (7/8/15)

kaiserben said:


> It has a flow meter on it, but ... ah bugger! It's a CO2/Argon regulator. I guess it'll be another week before I can use pure O2.


It says there is a flow meter, but it isn't. It's just the pressure of gas coming out of the reg. you need a flow metre that usually has a little ball in it that will give you a litre/min value. They are pretty cheap and very useful.


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## kaiserben (8/8/15)

Any tips on where I can buy a cheap flow meter? (I've looked on the Bunnings website without any luck, and google hasn't been my friend either).


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## Black n Tan (8/8/15)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LZQ-2-Oxygen-flow-meter-with-control-valve-Flowmeter-for-Oxygen-conectrator-/221663223331?hash=item339c285e23

EDIT:
there may be cheaper option so do a search, but the 3L/min flowmeter is the one you want so you can set at 1L/min easily.


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## desitter (9/8/15)

> It says there is a flow meter, but it isn't. It's just the pressure of gas coming out of the reg. you need a flow metre that usually has a little ball in it that will give you a litre/min value. They are pretty cheap and very useful.


The gauge on that regulator appears to be a flow meter. It has units Litre/min.


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## philmud (9/8/15)

Can anyone tell me if this regulator will work with the tradeflame oxygen bottle? I'm a bit reluctant to go with the grain and grape mini regulator bc Bunnings have ditched bernzomatic gases.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/tradeflame-regulator-conversion-kit_p5910287

Or, alternately, I can't tell if the thread on this one will fit. 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=331403696354


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## coopsomulous (10/8/15)

Prince Imperial said:


> I'm a bit reluctant to go with the grain and grape mini regulator bc Bunnings have ditched bernzomatic gases.


You can get the Bernzomatic Oxygen cylinder at Masters.


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## philmud (10/8/15)

Yeah, I know, I gather Masters are doing very poorly. I'd rather go with the Bunnings product in case Masters withdraw from the market. Also, $75 for the Bernzomatic compatible reg at G&G seems expensive


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## MHB (10/8/15)

Back when I put together the O2 Kit now sold by Brewman, I looked at the Benzomatic the two main problems were the on going cost of gas (the bottles don't last forever and have to be replaced) at present Masters are charging $32.99 for a 40g bottle, about $0.83/g.
I went with the Tesuco bottles, Brewman is charging $55 for a replacement bottle with 136g which works out at $0.40/g.
So although the upfront cost is higher, the ongoing cost is less than half.
I did say two problems, the other is that the Benzomatic was - well lets say it is a very light weight domestic build and the Tesuco is trade quality - I found that the Tesuco was a lot stronger, more reliable, much more likely to last and half the cost to run long term - what I think of as a no brainer.
I think its a big mistake to confuse Cost and Value for money when making an investment in brewing equipment.
Mark


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## kaiserben (10/8/15)

desitter said:


> The gauge on that regulator appears to be a flow meter. It has units Litre/min.


It does. I gave it it's first use yesterday and everything seemed to work well.


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## Mardoo (10/8/15)

Here's another option with flowmeter:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Carbon-Dioxide-CO2-Argon-Pressure-Reducer-Control-Valve-Regulator-Welding-Tool-/291420427234?hash=item43da02d3e2


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## mattfos01 (11/8/15)

Yep the above is what I use and works well.


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## Mardoo (11/8/15)

Mattfos01 said:


> Yep the above is what I use and works well.


That fits a full-size cylinder, right?


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## crazywalrus (12/8/15)

I have the same setup from Mark's Home Brew now sold at brewman http://www.brewman.com.au/web/showproductlist.asp?catid=9&subcatid=13 I have used the same bottle for over a year now but do not use it on all brews, only the high gravity ones. 

more info: http://www.tesuco.com.au/blog/2014-05/new-blog-%E2%80%93-only-use-approved-genuine-turboset-200-gas-cylinders


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## philmud (12/8/15)

kaiserben said:


> It does. I gave it it's first use yesterday and everything seemed to work well.


I just ordered one of these too, looking forward to seeing what kind of difference it makes.


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## peterl1981 (15/8/15)

What about these cylinders from bunnings http://www.bunnings.com.au/coregas-trade-n-go-size-d-oxygen-gas-_p5910224


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## siiren (20/8/15)

A bit late Prince, but I have just bought the green shed's trade flame regulator and O2 bottle and can confirm that it fits.
5% discount with power pass too!


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## Alchomist (3/9/15)

Are these the Oxy cylinders from Masters? And are they safe to use to airate wort?

https://m.masters.com.au/mmasters/home.jsp

https://m.masters.com.au/mob/product/900001620/bernzomatic-disposable-oxygen-cylinder-40g.jsp;jsessionid=Z83gqqUCxb1YwwK-A7V0tg__.ncdlmorasp1203?bmUID=kY0TZfV


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## Alchomist (3/9/15)

https://m.masters.com.au/product/101565318/bromic-oxygen-cylinder-156l


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## Mardoo (3/9/15)

The Bromic-type cylinders, the Bernzomatic ones and the Bunnings one each use a different size regulator/valve. I've been using the Bernzomatic ones with no issue for the last two years. There's not much, if anything, that can live in a pure oxygen environment under extremely high pressure.


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