# What Are Your Costs (or Savings) In Home Brewing?



## michael_aussie (9/3/11)

In one of the threads today I saw someone describe home brewing as an expensive way to brew cheap beer.

I wondered exactly where I stand dollars wise. Not that I would ever go back to the dark side of buying commercial beer now that Im hooked.

I did a rough add up of my capital costs so far:
3 fermenters, 10 kegs, a freezer, 2 fridges, 3 taps, a gun, and various bits and pieces..
This comes to around $1,300 although I estimate I will need to spend another $400 to make my freezer a keezer.

Ive been brewing for 18 months now.

Each batch including cleaning consumables and gas would work out at around $30.

I have made 43 batches in that period, at a total operational cost of 43 x $30 = $1290.

So my total home brew cost has been $1290 + $1300 = $2590.

Using 21 litres beer drank per batch, this equates to 21 x 43 = 903 litres.

A commercial slab = 24 x 375ml = 9 litres.

Therefore 903 litres is equivalent to 903/9 = 100 slabs.

At an average of $40 per slab, this equates to $4,000 of beer not purchased.

Therefore, in pure dollars terms I am $1,400 ahead, over an 18 month period = nearly $18 per week.
I have purchased most of the capital items I will need for the next 10 years.
Therefore in the future this saving will be even more (roughly $35 per week).

.. and I get the satisfaction of tap pouring MY beer in MY lounge room. 

Is this better than sex???


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## Golani51 (9/3/11)

michael_aussie said:


> In one of the threads today I saw someone describe home brewing as an expensive way to brew cheap beer.
> 
> I wondered exactly where I stand dollars wise. Not that I would ever go back to the dark side of buying commercial beer now that Im hooked.
> 
> ...



Definitely cheaper than sex!!

I bottle beer, used an 'off-the-street' fridge (great commercial glass unit), plastic fermeters (cheap place close to caulfield at a third the price of home brew stores), bulk buy bought grain and standard gear(bottler, capper, etc).
I still buy commercial (Brew Dogs rock), but savings from HB would be huge. I was given converted kegs by a generous guy on this site, however have used cheap IGA pots for small batches. 

When hops mature, more savings (and currently greatest expense as I am a hop head). Experimenting with storing yeasts will result in much greater savings.


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## Acasta (9/3/11)

It has crossed my mind, 2 things I would add:
The beer is better quality then what you would get for $40 a slab, more like $50-$70. But also, would you have drank as much if you didn't have the taps and hobby to go with the beer? You need to take into account how much more beer you drink


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## barls (9/3/11)

its like restoring cars. never add up the total.


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## shadders (9/3/11)

michael_aussie said:


> Is this better than sex???



Not sure but a nice dark ale on tap can certainly remove the need!

HB will always save you money in the long run if you stick with it... If you've got the bug though then the only question is how long is the long run? The more you spend on captital outlays the cheaper the consumables get. e.g. a mill means you can bulk buy grains with a lot less storage hassle and probably halve your grain costs. Working out how to reuse yeast cut my per brew yeast cost from about $5 for a dry packet to fractions of a dollar by recycling multiple portions for several generations. An AG rig upgrade that increases efficiency will save you a small amount of grain.

On the downside you've got to take into account that there is natural tendency to consume more because the product is better.

The real hidden cost though is the opportunity cost of time spent of forums gawping at other peoples tap bling and brewhouse porn.


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## matr (9/3/11)

54% ROI.. nice one


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## beerdrinkingbob (9/3/11)

michael_aussie said:


> .
> 
> Ive been brewing for 18 months now.
> 
> ...



Micheal some really good arguments here mate, I'll give you the tip, never show the books to the minister of war and finance. If she does find them the sex will no longer be a problem h34r:


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## bum (9/3/11)

michael_aussie said:


> At an average of $40 per slab, this equates to $4,000 of beer not purchased.


I dunno about anyone else but if my beer was turning out like $40 per slab beer I'd stop brewing.

For me a more relevant comparison is this: every time I go to Slowbeer/Purvis (pretty much they only way I buy beer) I buy a dozen bottles (varying sizes between 330ml and 750ml bottles) and only very rarely walk out having handed over less than $100. So do similar calculations based on yours above and I'd be streets ahead even though I regularly brew very hop-heavy beers (i.e. expensive). 

And we can ignore the fact (like most people seem to do when they do these calculations) that I drink more homebrew than I ever drank commercial beer because it is inconvenient to our premise.

Hobbies generally aren't cheap and there's probably not much point in looking for fiscal value in them. Do you enjoy it? Can you afford it? If you answer yes to both questions then you're winning.


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## DU99 (9/3/11)

you forgot there's no preservatives in home brew....and the excerise we do,when we are brewing a batch,and home brewers are environmentally friendly(recycling)..its bit off topic


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## Peteoz77 (9/3/11)

I used to drink two slabs of Carlton a week, so figure $80 X 52 = $4160
Now I brew those 2 slab worth of MUCH better beer for about $30 with Gas, water etc factored in. So $30 X 52= $1560

I have spent a grand total of around $3200 for everything, including my Keg Fridge with 6 Perlics, a chest freezer with temp control for storage, and 2 temp controlled fridges for fermenting in. Plus all of my AG gear, Mill etc. SO I saved this amount in about 16 months of brewing.

So, if I don't factor my time into it, I am saving $50 per week, every week, and I am making a LOT more styles of beer than I can purchase (at any price), and I have the satisfaction of knowing I made the beer.

Sure beats my last hobby (remote control car racing) where I spent THOUSANDS that will never be gotten back.

The last thing to consider is if I decided to get out of brewing, I can get most of my money back for the equipment that I have bought.


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## spaced (9/3/11)

I brew gluten free beer. A kit from brewers choice costs $55 and makes up 2 cartons. A carton of billabong brewing's APA (my favourite) is $80 plus about $25 for shipping to brisbane.

And to top it off, I really enjoy the beer I brew.

My only regret is not starting this hobby sooner.


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## Dave70 (9/3/11)

I really only drink on weekends, and probably only 16 to 18 'schooners' total anyway.
Or about 2.6 beers a day.
So until I get a dedicated habit I'm running at a loss.

But you cant put a price on personal satisfaction can you?
For me it's all about sticking it to the man.


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## mckenry (9/3/11)

My brews work out at ~ $1/L - including gas & electricity.

I dont think about the equipment cost as it is a lifetime purchase, and can be written down to $0 over time.

So for a slab, that = $9.


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## bconnery (9/3/11)

michael_aussie said:


> Is this better than sex???



If homebrewing is better than sex then either you're doing one of them wrong or I am...


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## Murcluf (9/3/11)

Brewing beers I'd never buy is always a positive, especially when it comes to volume produced (read in to that whatever you want)
Better rate of return then having shares in a commercial brewery. 
Stopped doing the maths back in the K&K days because the numbers were becoming too scary to justify as i went to AG (read in to that whatever you want too)


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## QldKev (9/3/11)

I've never tried to work out the exact cost of brewing. It's a hobby so I want to enjoy it. 

I always get worried when the power bill comes in and think how much is all my brew fridges adding to this.
1 x main fermenting fridge - always got something in it - but 3/4 of the time set to around 18c
1 x backup fermenting fridge - only switched on as needed
1 x keg maturing fridge & hop storage 
1 x keg serving fridge
1 x drinks fridge (maybe I should not put this against homebrew) 

Overall the main thing is it's a cheap hobby and I get to drink the rewards. 

My boat & caravan & fishing gear has all cost me heaps more to setup..



QldKev


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## Jeff Margrie (9/3/11)

barls said:


> its like restoring cars. never add up the total.



Exactly, if you enjoy the hobby, just keep doing it.

Cheers WoolBrew :icon_cheers:


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## Midnight Brew (9/3/11)

Small costs, awesome beer, fantastic hobby. I dont think Id mind if the cost were around $40 a slab because it would produce fantastic beer. However recently purchased Beersmith and been using the inventory list to add up the price of ingredients. WHen you use your yeast more then once its an instant saving and brings the batch price down so on average its around $1 a Litre. 

Soon as some space is free in the garage Im going start a kegging setup.


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## Nick JD (9/3/11)

Now factor in the hours you spend brewing and your hourly rate at work. 

Yup - it's not cheap at all. If you make $50 an hour at work, and work long hours, homebrewing is foolish - buying cases of Chimay is cheaper.

Unless you love doing it. Which we all do. So close your response textbox and all the whinging at me you were about to do.


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## unrealeous (9/3/11)

The best thing about brewing is you can start out on the cheap - get up and running for under a 100 bucks and brew great beer and get all the sense of satisfaction that it brings. You don't need to go beyond this.

But what normally happens is your love for the sport grows, and you want to start doing things differently, easily, better etc - and a bit more equipment can help you achieve your dreams...

And it is a slippery slope.


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## bconnery (9/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> Now factor in the hours you spend brewing and your hourly rate at work.
> 
> Yup - it's not cheap at all. If you make $50 an hour at work, and work long hours, homebrewing is foolish - buying cases of Chimay is cheaper.
> 
> Unless you love doing it. Which we all do. So close your response textbox and all the whinging at me you were about to do.



I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate? If you were spending time homebrewing when you should be working perhaps, but this is a hobby. 
The cost of ingredients is a valid cost because you spend that money, but unless homebrewing is something you do when you could, or rather would, be earning money, then factoring in an hourly cost isn't valid. 

It would be like saying I shouldn't bother buying groceries and cooking because once you factor in the hourly rate it is much cheaper to simply buy takeaway food all the time. (Note: of course people may do this, and that's their choice)


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## komodo (9/3/11)

Man if i factored in my time R&D especially I'd be long bankrupt!


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## DanRayner (9/3/11)

DU99 said:


> you forgot there's no preservatives in home brew....and the excerise we do,when we are brewing a batch,and home brewers are environmentally friendly(recycling)..its bit off topic



Common misconception about mega-swill. Virtually no commercial beers have preservatives (unless you're talking about hops and alcohol) - they just don't need any, it's boiled, preservative hops are added and the vessels they are packaged in are (or should be) ultra sterile.

Even beers like Toohey's New proudly proclaim they have no added preservatives (wow, gee Toohey's; you want a cookie for that?!? You ain't supposed to put preservatives in beer, fools! (that's me talking in blaxploitation to Toohey's, not to DU99 ))



bconnery said:


> I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate? If you were spending time homebrewing when you should be working perhaps, but this is a hobby.
> The cost of ingredients is a valid cost because you spend that money, but unless homebrewing is something you do when you could, or rather would, be earning money, then factoring in an hourly cost isn't valid.
> 
> It would be like saying I shouldn't bother buying groceries and cooking because once you factor in the hourly rate it is much cheaper to simply buy takeaway food all the time. (Note: of course people may do this, and that's their choice)



+1 

I brew as a past-time (ie: a way to pass the time) and I get low-cost, high quality beer as a result. As that mad Charlie Sheen says: #winning

My last batch of 100% Nelson Sauvin IPA cost around $50 for 42L - or equivalent to 5.3 cases of 330mL craft beer - which equates to about $345 worth of LCPA or similar (at $65/case) and to be honest, I just kegged and tasted my beer last night and I think I prefer it even if it was the same price. 6.1%, orangey-hoppy and malty sweet (used 250g of Nelson Sauvin in 42L; cor!!)


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## cdbrown (9/3/11)

Brew when your on annual leave, public holidays or sick leave, then you'll be paid to brew!

In terms of ingredients only I've bought around 2.8k of stuff, used 1.8k and am around $800 in front over the past 2 years (still have 1k worth of ingredients to use so will be further in front in terms of savings). When factoring in equipment then adding 11 kegs, 3x25L fermenters, 4x60L fermenters (most used to hold bulk grain), plastic cubes, keezer, temp controllers, timber for a bar, pots, steel for brew rig, PID controllers etc etc then I'm well behind and probably won't "break even" for another year or so. I'm not really worried about the savings, I know it's cheaper per batch for ingredients - I like brewing and enjoy drinking the end product. Just wish I could brew more often and make use of the cubes.


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## Nick JD (9/3/11)

bconnery said:


> I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate?



If you work 75 hours a week for $50p/h, have a family and the weekend off - no matter how much you love your brewing hobby it simply does not make sense to brew because you are time poor and cash rich. 

Sure, there's no need to factor in an hourly rate when you have time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments. Not everyone has this luxury; some people value their family more than their hobbies.

A friend of mine rolls his eyes when he hears how long it takes to make beer and swigs his can of XXXX Gold. He's rich and busy; I've got all day.

I know K&K brewers who will never move to AG because they don't see that spending hours crafting award-winning beers is more fun than going surfing, or playing sport with their kids. They brew K&K because it saves money, but also doesn't take hours of their day.

If I won lotto, I'd still brew. If I had to work 75 hours a week, I would go to Dan's and go hard. brewing takes time and time (for some people) is money. Hopefully this helps in your understanding about why people want to apply this argument.


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## waggastew (9/3/11)

Ignoring the cost of the Coopers kit I got given free and the slight increase in electricity on my fridge brewing HB is super cheap. I brew K&bits, some spec grain, good yeast etc

Most expensive brew worked out to be about $40 a standard case (24 x 375mL). That was for a 13L Belgian Dubbel batch using a liquid yeast and imported Candi sugar.

Most hover around the $15 mark, including Dr Smurto's LCPA clone, JSGA clones, toucans etc.

In the end I don't save much money as the bit that I save I spend on 'Research' buying commercial beers to try. But its all good!


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## bconnery (9/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> If you work 75 hours a week for $50p/h, have a family and the weekend off - no matter how much you love your brewing hobby it simply does not make sense to brew because you are time poor and cash rich.
> 
> Sure, there's no need to factor in an hourly rate when you have time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments. Not everyone has this luxury; some people value their family more than their hobbies.
> 
> ...


None of your argument helps me to understand why you would want to apply this argument, in fact most of it I see as contradictory. 
You say that to some people time is money, but then suggest they shouldn't or don't brew because they need to spend time with their families, or surfing, none of which are activities that generate income (obviously surfing can...). 


Making the decision not to brew because you are time poor, and want to spend that with your family, or surfing or whatever, isn't an economic argument, its a social and values based one, and a perfectly valid one. 
Again, unless the time spent brewing is detracting from time you could actually be earning money I don't think there's a valid reason to factor this in. 

Any time spent brewing subtracts from other commitments, but it isn't automatic that means money. Personally I don't know anyone who has time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments, doubly so for anyone with a family. 

If you are spending time with your family you aren't working, but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable nor valid.
I work full time and have a wife and two small children. I spend after work (not much before as I generally leave quite early) and weekends with my family and occasionally make the decision to spend some time brewing. During this process I spend time with my family and also work on other commitments, household jobs etc. 

I'm glad you've got all day, many of us don't, but still make the decision to brew. 

The decision to indulge in any hobby involves a lot of factors, time being one, but I don't think it is the case that that time has to have a dollar value attached to it, a 'social' or whatever you want to call it yes.


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## Strange Brew (9/3/11)

Home Brewing saves tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. If I wasn't home brewing I'd probably be doing one of the following in my spare time:

Ballroom dancing: up to $150 an hour in lessons, about $1500 for entry level competition.
Comic book collecting: over $100000 for the origional superman comic.
Photography: $30000 in equipment and $1000 for a trip to take photos.
Tornado Chasing: Last minute flights to america $10000 each
Facebook: $1 to buy a friend a digital birthday gift x 1000000 people you've never seen = $1000000 a year.
Faberge Egg collecting: Start from $2 million a pop
Golf: Latest driver to get you that 10mm further = $2000 a pop
Faberge Egg Golf: Starts from $2 million a hole


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## hsb (9/3/11)

LOL Strange Brew. +1 to the Faberge Eggs, it was that or homebrewing for me. I chose the Eggs but cracked at my first auction so ended up back in homebrewing.

I don't count my savings or costs, I just hope the wifee never adds it all up and am grateful for every new day that comes. I don't brew to save, I save to brew.


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## Gormand (9/3/11)

Brewing has caused me to drink more, but Im loving it. Right now I have no doubt I am way down due to startup costs... which really dont seem to stop.
Ok so all I need is the tank, capper, a set of bottles(I was impatient and lazy), giant spoon, hydrometer etc.
Damn this temp control is hard, I now need a fridge.
I want more control over my brews, what is this all grain thing, hmm ok I need voile, 50l pot, burner and cubes.
This next bit is for later but I know its coming
I need my own fridge for hop and yeast storage.
I kinda want to keg, because beer on tap is just way cooler, so there is another fridge or freezer, kegs, taps, gas, lines etc.

Im sure the startup costs stop at some point, but until I hit that point its a moderatly expensive hobby.


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## ekul (9/3/11)

I'm def out in front. My system is pretty simple though. Just an 80L biab rig, 4 cubes and 3 fermenters. 
Buying a mill probably saved me the most money out of everything. I set most of my rig up whilst i was a uni student on the dole. And when i was on the dole i couldn't afford beer very often. So it must be cheaper. PLus its fun.


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## DanRayner (9/3/11)

Strange Brew said:


> Faberge Egg collecting: Start from $2 million a pop
> Golf: Latest driver to get you that 10mm further = $2000 a pop
> Faberge Egg Golf: Starts from $2 million a hole



Funniest thing I've seen all day!


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## Silo Ted (9/3/11)

bconnery said:


> If homebrewing is better than sex then either you're doing one of them wrong or I am...



You need to understand when a big, creamy head is appropriate to the style you've developed.


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## Nick JD (9/3/11)

bconnery said:


> Any time spent brewing subtracts from other commitments, but it isn't automatic that means money.



No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject. 

Most come to homebrewing to save money. If there was a push button machine that made award-winning beer and put it into bottles then everyone would brew - but to some people their spare time is too _precious _(add any monetary synonym here) to be _spent _(again, any monetary synonym here) mashing grain when they have enough cash to blow on beer and sit in the pool drinking it. 

To those people, they wouldn't brew if you paid them $50 an hour. That's the monetary value these people place on brewing. If they became time rich and cash poor they'd start brewing again. 

And that's why it actually _is _possible to attach a time figure to brewing.


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## bum (9/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject.


His position isn't that the argument doesn't exist - just that it is nonsense.

And he is quite correct.

Equally silly is your suggestion that it "does not make sense" for a cash wealthy/time poor person to brew - how about, uh, brewing a beer you cannot buy anywhere that is tailored perfectly to your own tastes? Seems like a valid reason that one can't buy their way out of. I mean, obviously, if all you're brewing is light-arsed smash bullshit beers then yeah, no reason to brew (regardless of your situation) but that is far from everyone. One would hope, anyway.


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## Acasta (9/3/11)

Nick, your argument is like comparing mowing the lawns to hiring a gardener to do it for you. The reason people do things themselves is to save money. I guess if you don't have free time however, it may be seen as money potentially earned, but if you look at it that way you should be working or sleeping.


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## warra48 (9/3/11)

No one can beat my way of brewing to a budget.

I set all my prices in BeerSmith to $0.00.

Every batch I brew costs me nothing, nil, zip, nada, $0.

And, I love the beer I brew. Ooohhhh, just downed a longneck of DrSmurto's Golden Ale, brewed with 100% Cascade hops. Beautiful, just gotta love that big citrus hop nose and flavour, but balanced by the malt and body, nothing over the top.

I don't brew to save money. I do it as a retirement hobby. I also play golf, and it costs me a darn lot more over the course of a year than brewing does, although my consumption only runs to 1 longneck a day.


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## hsb (9/3/11)

Both pursuits offer equal amounts of frustration/joy, but it's easier to hit targets than greens (for me at least.) Free beer! at warra's!


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## Superoo (9/3/11)

matr said:


> 54% ROI.. nice one




Or is that 54% ROV Matt

Sorry everyone - private joke (and not a very good one at that).


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## bconnery (9/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject.
> 
> Most come to homebrewing to save money. If there was a push button machine that made award-winning beer and put it into bottles then everyone would brew - but to some people their spare time is too _precious _(add any monetary synonym here) to be _spent _(again, any monetary synonym here) mashing grain when they have enough cash to blow on beer and sit in the pool drinking it.
> 
> ...


BUt none of those things, until you pulled a $rate out of...thin air, are a value cost. Their spare time isn't precious because they could be earning x dollars, it's precious because they don't have much of it. How you choose to spend it is a value call, not an economic one. 

Your original response stated "Now factor in the hours you spend brewing and your hourly rate at work.

Yup - it's not cheap at all."
Again, I have seen nothing that provides a reason for applying what you could earn at work as a time cost in homebrewing. 
If you are right that most people come to homebrewing to save money, and in many cases you are, then the money they are looking to save is to the money they would spend on beer, time doesn't come into it.


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## stux (9/3/11)

Acasta said:


> Nick, your argument is like comparing mowing the lawns to hiring a gardener to do it for you. The reason people do things themselves is to save money. I guess if you don't have free time however, it may be seen as money potentially earned, but if you look at it that way you should be working or sleeping.



What about hiring someone to mow the lawn/gardening etc so that I have time to brew beers I love and can not obtain while spending precious home time with my daughter?

Guilty as charged

Now I need to factor in his hourly rate into my beer cost too!


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## Nick JD (9/3/11)

Acasta said:


> Nick, your argument is like comparing mowing the lawns to hiring a gardener to do it for you.



Exactly.

5 hours brewing on your only day off when you're pulling $3000 a week? 

Just buy it. Your free time is too valuable. You might as well have done 5 hours extra work that morning and bought a week's worth of _all the best beers from around the world._ But you don't need to.

Those five hours of brewing just aren't worth the beer you produced. You did 70 hours this week - time to spend some of that money and relax! 

This however, is not the way I think - but I can see why homebrewing is not the hobby of the fantastically wealthy or the hideously busy.


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## outbreak (9/3/11)

Anyone who is into cars / 4wding / Collecting Mid Century Modern Furniture / Golf / Fishing / Diving. and brewing will know that brewing is a very cheap hobby! 

To get into 4wd

Second hand SWB GQ Patrol $6,000
35" Mud Terrains x4 $1,200
Diff Locks Front & rear $3,000
Snorkle $500
Front Bar $2,000 
Recovery Gear including compressor $,1000

Then you have things like engel/petrol/long range tanks/cb/sat phone/sliders/free wheeling hubs/ the list goes on.

I am happy i changed to brewing, I technically save money!


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## adryargument (9/3/11)

Just dropped 2-3k into my gear in the last 6 months.....
All i know is i brew 40L batches for around $30-40, with the ability to do 60L, and they all go into the fridge nicely 
Already starting to farm yeast, and in 14 months my 12 Hops trees will be producing..

From next year onwards all my costs will be malt, which i grab off the bulk buys. 
($49 a 26kg bag, i use 11kg roughly for a 40l batch = 88 liters for $49 = 60 cents a liter?)

Cheap as chips for good beer!


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## haysie (9/3/11)

I just brew cause I like doing it and drinking it, I dont like the sometimes I have to tip it. Thats life n brewing, get better at it sunshine I tell myself.

Some very good relevant points re. costs. I dont care re. the cost but you`ll see me straggling those bulk buy threads B) 

Its a good hobby and thats what it is to most.

The downside is nothing really! Its all beer.


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## drew9242 (9/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 5 hours brewing on your only day off when you're pulling $3000 a week?
> 
> ...



AHHHHHH, you make it sound like brewing is a job or a chore.


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## Brewer_010 (9/3/11)

to keep it simple, I have a budget allowance of $60 a month which I've stuck to for two years. 

I brew about 20L per month and this budget doesn't include replacement kit. If I earned loads more I'd probably be working more hours so would brew less and buy more.

I brew at night so it's technically "my time" and doesnt interfere so much with family life.


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## Golani51 (9/3/11)

I brew with my kids aged 5 1/2 and 2 1/2. They add hops, yeast etc and love it. Of course, my son telling his creche teachers about beer is not ideal, but they love it. 
It is like cooking- people do it because it is fun, even the wealthier amongst us. It is not cost effective to go shopping for ingredients, plan the meal, cook, clean. etc. Cheaper to go to a restaurant. Same with brewing, except it is generally cheaper than shop bought stuff, irrespective of the quality. Some may do it because it is cheaper, but it is no different than cooking (just that we generally have most of the ingredients on hand). 

To my kids, it is no different to cooking.


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## Nick JD (9/3/11)

Drew9242 said:


> AHHHHHH, you make it sound like brewing is a job or a chore.



To those who have little free time, it is.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (9/3/11)

outbreak said:


> Anyone who is into cars / 4wding / Collecting Mid Century Modern Furniture / Golf / Fishing / Diving. and brewing will know that brewing is a very cheap hobby!
> 
> To get into 4wd
> 
> ...



Sorry..... Off Topic quickly......

Ok..... and are your weekends are just as fun making beer at home, as to when you were 4x4'ing??? Chalk and cheese if you ask me......

Similar to sniffing Glue / Chroming to snorting coke - You may enjoy both, but 1 is a ****-load cheaper than the other.

I had a 4x4 '91 LN106 Hilux for a few years...... The reason i gave up 4x4'ing was cos a family started to evolve under the wallace household....... I love my hilux, and miss her dearly  But anyway, homebrewed beer has somewhat numbed the pain.....

Back on topic......

I agree with Brewer_010. Keep it simple. I have a brewing budget, but it doesnt involve 20L a month, more like 20L a week (exaggerated average :icon_cheers: ) after bills are paid, food is on the table and swmbo and the kids get their little (and i mean little) treats, I save the rest, and spend the pocketed extras (like saturday work, and unexpected overtime....) Swmbo understands this is my play money and i get to spend it on things for the brewery (but she gets a big surprise quite often like flowers/chocolate.......

:icon_cheers: 

_wallace_

P.S. This post has taken a bloody long time for me to write...... On and Off the bloody computer, fatherly stuff, cooking dinner, blah blah blah.....


----------



## rotten (9/3/11)

If I'm to be honest home brew started off as cheap beer to me. Not any more it's a hobby, and a damn good one at that :super: 

I'd much rather drink my cascade APA or English bitter than any mega swill on offer. I don't save money being AG, although I do make it cheaper with bulk buys, re-using yeast etc. Costs blow out with mills, mash-tuns, kettles, chillers etc. Don't even mention the ferment freezer I'm purchasing in a few weeks, or the keg fridge (freezer sorry) not long after that.

I brew mainly at night, so all I lose is some t.v.p.c. time. I gain 20 odd ltrs of awesome brew, a few hrs of peace and quite with the stereo blaring, and a satisfaction that 'I brewed that!!'

Worth every Penny :icon_chickcheers:


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## mh971 (9/3/11)

rotten said:


> snipped.........
> 
> and a satisfaction that 'I brewed that!!'
> 
> Worth every Penny :icon_chickcheers:



+1 thats my motivation 

Two years ago I rebuilt an old holden grey engine and parts alone cost more than I could have bought and rebuilt a small block chev for, it's not about cost for me but self satisfaction. I'm with NickJD, I reckon i'd still brew if I won 20M in x-lotto but if heaven forbid if I ever endup working 70hrs a week for 160k I certainly won't.

My costs to date:
$80 Burner
$130 Pot
$8 square of voile
Fementers long since depreciated to $0
Ferment Fridge - old freezer with temp control consisting of building A/C thermostat and multimeter $0 Donated/Found
CO2 bottle - Converted Fire extinguisher $0 found (legitimately) - Keg setup still being constructed)
Regulator - found (again legitimately) - as above

Each 20 -23L brew costs around:

$22-$35 in grain depending on how you buy it
$11-$14 in Yeast depending on how you buy it ( i must start harvesting and farming this stuff to get it to around $4)
$5 in Hops depending on how you buy it ( am growing own chinook now)
$5 in gas

Above really depends if you can afford to buy maybe 2-3 brews worth of hops/yeast/grain in advance

last brew was Tony's LCBA clone and I reckon I preferred mine to the real one, and I love the original and its $65/ctn.

So if you wanna keep it cheap and take time to scrounge and accumulate stuff you can really save some bucks, if you want to go berserk and spend like you would on other hobbies of the high disposable income crowd then you can. 

Personally I like the 'tie it up with wire' approach.

Sure beats Golf/Jetski's/4WDing and numerous other expensive hobbies in my opinion (barrage of dissent expected)


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## michael_aussie (10/3/11)

Acasta said:


> It has crossed my mind, 2 things I would add:
> The beer is better quality then what you would get for $40 a slab, more like $50-$70. But also, would you have drank as much if you didn't have the taps and hobby to go with the beer? You need to take into account how much more beer you drink


Great points there.
Yes, my beer is better than $40 beer.
Yes, I drink more because its just so bloody nice .. and its there.
I have put on weight since I started brewing and its a challenge to balance beer consumption and my health.



beerdrinkingbob said:


> Micheal some really good arguments here mate, I'll give you the tip, never show the books to the minister of war and finance. If she does find them the sex will no longer be a problem h34r:


This isnt a problem for me.
My wife loves my beer.
She gave me my first kits as a birthday present, and has supported every purchase since.



bum said:


> Hobbies generally aren't cheap and there's probably not much point in looking for fiscal value in them. Do you enjoy it? Can you afford it? If you answer yes to both questions then you're winning.


I think many have missed the point of my posting.
Its not a case of being able to afford home-brewing, its the wonderful feeling of having a hobby I love that makes beer that I love, that allows me to play with all sorts of beer porn (kegs, gas, electronics, chemistry) .. and it SAVES me money.



spaced said:


> My only regret is not starting this hobby sooner.


+1000
I feel Ive missed 25 years that I could have been doing this. :-(((



bconnery said:


> If homebrewing is better than sex then either you're doing one of them wrong or I am...


OK, I exaggerated 



QldKev said:


> I always get worried when the power bill comes in and think how much is all my brew fridges adding to this.


Ive considered this, and Im planning to buy a power meter and make sure my fridges arent costing me more to run that the cost of buying some new ones.



unrealeous said:


> The best thing about brewing is you can start out on the cheap - get up and running for under a 100 bucks and brew great beer and get all the sense of satisfaction that it brings. You don't need to go beyond this.
> 
> But what normally happens is your love for the sport grows, and you want to start doing things differently, easily, better etc - and a bit more equipment can help you achieve your dreams...
> 
> And it is a slippery slope.


This is so true.
The beauty of brewing is you can do it as little or as big as you want, or can afford (both in terms of $$ and time).


----------



## michael_aussie (10/3/11)

bconnery said:


> I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate? If you were spending time homebrewing when you should be working perhaps, but this is a hobby.
> The cost of ingredients is a valid cost because you spend that money, but unless homebrewing is something you do when you could, or rather would, be earning money, then factoring in an hourly cost isn't valid.
> 
> It would be like saying I shouldn't bother buying groceries and cooking because once you factor in the hourly rate it is much cheaper to simply buy takeaway food all the time. (Note: of course people may do this, and that's their choice)





Nick JD said:


> If you work 75 hours a week for $50p/h, have a family and the weekend off - no matter how much you love your brewing hobby it simply does not make sense to brew because you are time poor and cash rich.
> 
> Sure, there's no need to factor in an hourly rate when you have time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments. Not everyone has this luxury; some people value their family more than their hobbies.
> 
> ...





Nick JD said:


> No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject.
> 
> Most come to homebrewing to save money. If there was a push button machine that made award-winning beer and put it into bottles then everyone would brew - but to some people their spare time is too _precious _(add any monetary synonym here) to be _spent _(again, any monetary synonym here) mashing grain when they have enough cash to blow on beer and sit in the pool drinking it.
> 
> ...





Acasta said:


> Nick, your argument is like comparing mowing the lawns to hiring a gardener to do it for you. The reason people do things themselves is to save money. I guess if you don't have free time however, it may be seen as money potentially earned, but if you look at it that way you should be working or sleeping.





bconnery said:


> BUt none of those things, until you pulled a $rate out of...thin air, are a value cost. Their spare time isn't precious because they could be earning x dollars, it's precious because they don't have much of it. How you choose to spend it is a value call, not an economic one.
> 
> Your original response stated "Now factor in the hours you spend brewing and your hourly rate at work.
> 
> ...





Stux said:


> What about hiring someone to mow the lawn/gardening etc so that I have time to brew beers I love and can not obtain while spending precious home time with my daughter?
> 
> Guilty as charged
> 
> Now I need to factor in his hourly rate into my beer cost too!





Nick JD said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 5 hours brewing on your only day off when you're pulling $3000 a week?
> 
> ...


The whole discussion about the amount of time and the value you put on your time is such a complex and personal issue.
For most of us, the time we spend brewing doesnt over-lap with earning money time. I doubt any one here forgoes paid hours to brew. Therefore, I think the argument of what is your time worth falls over. 

After you subtract work hours and I guess a few other necessary hours like sleeping, eating, etc, you are left with your discretionary hours. 
We all make time choices how we spend this discretionary time:-
hobbies, gardening, DIY projects, family, sport etc etc. == even millionaires (like Charlie Sheen!!).

If Charlie Sheen wanted to home brew rather snot coke off whores arses, he would.

I wouldnt brew if I didnt enjoy it . even for the better beer.
I would bank my discretionary time and spend more of my discretionary $$$ on shop beer.



Golani51 said:


> I brew with my kids aged 5 1/2 and 2 1/2. They add hops, yeast etc and love it. Of course, my son telling his creche teachers about beer is not ideal, but they love it.
> It is like cooking- people do it because it is fun, even the wealthier amongst us. It is not cost effective to go shopping for ingredients, plan the meal, cook, clean. etc. Cheaper to go to a restaurant. Same with brewing, except it is generally cheaper than shop bought stuff, irrespective of the quality. Some may do it because it is cheaper, but it is no different than cooking (just that we generally have most of the ingredients on hand).
> 
> To my kids, it is no different to cooking.


Im in a similar position.
I have 3 kids who all share in my hobby.
They help me bottle, clean, play with kegs, shop, pour beer, searching, watching and bidding on ebay, making stuff, buying stuffetc
Brewing gives me the chance to teach them very practical aspects of science.
It is an interactive inclusive hobby.
I have even set up a soda water gun for them along side my beer, which they use to pour their own soda water so they have their own beer porn!!


----------



## pimpsqueak (10/3/11)

While I can save a few $$$ by brewing my own, it's more of a labour of love.
I enjoy making stuff with my own hands and it's twice as nice when you can drink the results. 
The only way I can ever see myself not brewing is if I win powerball. And even then, with that much $$$ I may just start up a full scale brewery anyway. Just 'cos.


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## proudscum (10/3/11)

My gain is the loss of any Brewery that charges $80 a case because 12 brew days will pay for my brewery.The money aside it means that i can brew beers that i have enjoyed while travelling the world and cant buy here or charge you $26 a six pack(read Sierra Nevada pale ale,when in the states i was thinking that is what i will drink but it ended up being on the low end of all the other great craft beers that i tried.45 different beers in 12 days)

The joy of reading,brewing,fermenting and sharing it with and educating others is just priceless and these things dont come from opening a brought beer.


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## DanRayner (10/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> To those who have little free time, it is.



Utter bollocks

If it were such a chore most people with a job would just buy the expensive craft beer (which most people who like craft beer do) as it really isn't that expensive

With jobs, study and a family on the way I have very little spare time but most of my waking moments are spent thinking about what I am going to try to brew in my next precious 5hr brew session.

I make more than I can drink: 50L every two weeks and so I share it with others - am not brewing for the beer (although the resultant beer is a bonus) - I am brewing because I love brewing - hell, I even love scrubbing the kettle after the boil!

If people (or you) feel the way you think they do Nick, they should give up brewing as it is a waste of their (your) time.


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## Silo Ted (10/3/11)

outbreak said:


> Anyone who is into cars / 4wding / Collecting Mid Century Modern Furniture / Golf / Fishing / Diving. and brewing will know that brewing is a very cheap hobby!
> 
> To get into 4wd
> 
> ...


You forgot to mention the cost of buying Yosemite Sam mudflaps.


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## Golani51 (10/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> To those who have little free time, it is.



I disagree. You could just go and kit it if it was such a chore.
I am doing a PhD and work full time, have kids and a wife.....make that 3 kids.....and do it when I can. It is not a chore, rather it is a case of just fitting it in when the opportunity arises. I wouldn't do it if it was a chore. I just make up several brews at the same time if I have the hours required. If I don't, then I just scum it off buddies who have made up batches they dont have time to bottle (Thanks PK)!


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## Golani51 (10/3/11)

proudscum said:


> My gain is the loss of any Brewery that charges $80 a case because 12 brew days will pay for my brewery.The money aside it means that i can brew beers that i have enjoyed while travelling the world and cant buy here or charge you $26 a six pack(read Sierra Nevada pale ale,when in the states i was thinking that is what i will drink but it ended up being on the low end of all the other great craft beers that i tried.45 different beers in 12 days)
> 
> The joy of reading,brewing,fermenting and sharing it with and educating others is just priceless and these things dont come from opening a brought beer.



I did over 40 IPAs in the month I was there, let alone all the others I tried. I think I had a great time, but not entirely sure. Hard to remember.


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## Oatlands Brewer (10/3/11)

I guess this discussion really goes to show what a HUGE cross section of the community Home Brewing takes in.

To some its a hobby only to be squeezed in between work and home-life like golf or cycling, others do it cause to continue pursuing the hobby of beer drinking/socialising would cost too much, i even now of people around here who brew cause they are alcoholics and dont work so therefore cant afford there "Habit". 

The other side of the coin are guys who have a big wallet to swing and will buy a bespoke 3 Vessel set up and use it for 12 mths then get the shits with it and it sits in the shed.

I reakon the thing to remember with HB'ing is its unique among hobbies that you can actually have fun at a task that arrives at a product that is at least as good as what you can buy at a price that is substantialy lower. not may hoobies that will do that for you, maybe Vegie gardening, Hunting/Fishing (though these can have large capital expenses), making bio-fuels.......

Personaly I started brewing cause in our town the most imaginative commercial beer i can buy is Coopers Pale....not a bad beer by any means but a little variety is nice.


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## Eater (10/3/11)

I work 40 hour week on average for a result i would call less than satisfying.

On a brew day i spend about 6 hours, including pre and post cleaning, for a result i call satisfying

One earns me the money i need to do the other
One lets me reset on a weekend to return to the other

With the Yin, comes the Yang


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## Nick JD (10/3/11)

DanRayner said:


> If people (or you) feel the way you think they do Nick, they should give up brewing as it is a waste of their (your) time.



See, you're disagreeing with some people's attitude because it differs from yours, not because it's untrue.

I think there's a word for that.

Some people enjoy mowning the lawns. Some people get others to do it for them because their spare time is too valauable to piss about doing something that takes and hour and only costs 25% of what they can make in one hour.

Me? I love brewing. I'd continue to do it if I was a millionaire. But I would understand if someone who was too busy with other commitments to stop brewing.


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## DanRayner (10/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> See, you're disagreeing with some people's attitude because it differs from yours, not because it's untrue.
> 
> I think there's a word for that.
> 
> ...



No, I was speaking of an unlikely situation. I don't think these people really exist and by saying that you love brewing yourself regardless of the time spent on it or by stating that you'd continue to brew after winning the lottery you have not disproven me.

People who think it is or would be a chore to brew probably don't brew or once did but have given up. Other than possibly the unemployed uber-poor, I doubt there are any brewers who brew beer and think that brewing is a chore - there are always cheaper ways to get wasted if you dislike brewing. I just think that for some people (like me) it wouldn't matter how cash-rich/time-poor they were they would still brew because nothing about it is not a chore to them.

My spare time is too valuable to be doing _anything other than_ brewing

Glad you love brewing as much as I do Nick


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## stux (10/3/11)

Another point, I like to have a mate or two round for a brew day, good socializing, good excuse to sample some beers in the latter stages... And they like drinking the finished products, only fair to help out

Are we going to put a monetary figure on weekend bbqs and other social events now?


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## DanRayner (10/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> See, you're disagreeing with some people's attitude because it differs from yours, not because it's untrue.
> 
> I think there's a word for that.



Oh, and I think the word you were looking for is _judgemental_ - and pretty much everyone is judgemental to some degree.


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## outbreak (10/3/11)

_WALLACE_ said:


> <br />Sorry..... Off Topic quickly......<br /><br />Ok..... and are your weekends are just as fun making beer at home, as to when you were 4x4'ing??? Chalk and cheese if you ask me......<br /><br />Similar to sniffing Glue / Chroming to snorting coke - You may enjoy both, but 1 is a ****-load cheaper than the other.<br /><br />I had a 4x4 '91 LN106 Hilux for a few years...... The reason i gave up 4x4'ing was cos a family started to evolve under the wallace household....... I love my hilux, and miss her dearly <img src="http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> But anyway, homebrewed beer has somewhat numbed the pain.....<br /><br />Back on topic......<br /><br />I agree with Brewer_010. Keep it simple. I have a brewing budget, but it doesnt involve 20L a month, more like 20L a week (exaggerated average <img src="http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_cheers.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":icon_cheers:" border="0" alt="icon_cheers.gif" /> ) after bills are paid, food is on the table and swmbo and the kids get their little (and i mean little) treats, I save the rest, and spend the pocketed extras (like saturday work, and unexpected overtime....) Swmbo understands this is my play money and i get to spend it on things for the brewery (but she gets a big surprise quite often like flowers/chocolate.......<br /><br /> <img src="http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_cheers.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":icon_cheers:" border="0" alt="icon_cheers.gif" /> <br /><br />_wallace_<br /><br />P.S. This post has taken a bloody long time for me to write...... On and Off the bloody computer, fatherly stuff, cooking dinner, blah blah blah..... <img src="http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><br />


<br /><br /><br />

I enjoy brewing more than 4x4. I got sick of the stupid bogans out on the tracks asking to be recovered with no recovery points etc.... I miss it sometimes, but I enjoy brewing far more. I can understand how you would love 4wding a lot more than brewing though.


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## ekul (10/3/11)

If its taking too much time, get a bigger pot. I used to spend 5 hours making 23L, now i spend 5 hours making 46L, when i get my 140L pot i will be spending 5 hours to make 92L. With the help of a pulley and an extra bag the difference in effort between a double and quadruple batch is negligible. 

If i was a billionaire I'd be brewing in a 200L Rims system and have 20 different beers on tap, on the deck of my villa in Venezuela. I'd probably hire someone to do all the cleaning though, or maybe one of my model girlfriends could do that if she wasn't 'busy'.


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## Nick JD (10/3/11)

ekul said:


> I'd probably hire someone to do all the cleaning though.



I'd hire a brewery to do it.


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## Spork (4/5/11)

So far: Brewing batch of JAO (Mead) that cost about $22 for the ingredients (with honey left over) and < $10 for equipment (only needed to purchase a bung and a bubbler) So, $30ish for about 3.5 litres of beautiful (I hope) mead.
That works out pretty good value IMO.

As for beer - plan on starting first batch this weekend and it should make approx 20 litres (I'm guessing 1 litre of "dregs" left in fermenter?) $ spent so far on brewing equipment (approx) : 
Basic kit + heating belt - $70
Premium recipe kit - $50
30 PET bottles - $36 
Thermometer - $20
Long glass jar for testing SG $13
Starsan $20
Funnels, spoons, measuring jug $12
total: $221

plus I have a couple of brewing books and an ebay temperature controller on the way and am looking for a fridge / freezer to brew in...

So, I usually spend $60 - $65 / carton, and drink approx 1 of them each week, plus probably $30-40 / week on "speciallty" (craft / micro / imported) beers for a treat.
In the short term I have no plans to stop buying the treats, but I do hope to stop buying the regular stuff, so, after my 2nd batch, I should already be about even, minus the cost of a fridge / freezer, when I get one, which should be < $100.
I expect my hobby to have paid for itself with a couple of months. Besides, what hobby is free?


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## manticle (4/5/11)

I've saved enough to buy myself a small chicken.

No idea really anymore. My brews cost less per bottle than a commercial equivalent (presuming there is one available) but I invest a lot of time and a fair bit of my non-disposable income in ingredients, equipment building, brewing books etc.

As long as I can afford it without starving and as long as I keep enjoying it, I figure I'm ahead. That's enough for me.

I also spend more money on commercial beer than I used to because the commercial beer I now buy is far more expensive than that I used to buy (I get less of it for more money).

Don't know how it balances up, don't really care. I love drinking beer, brewing beer, talking beer, learning about beer and sharing beer.


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## [email protected] (4/5/11)

i worked it out once..... for me to buy a carton of coronas, it was 53 a pop...... if i made it myself, would cost me around 43 a pop......... the carton of coronas HAD 24 brews in it, my homemade HAD 65 in it....... $2.20 a bottle, or $0.68 a bottle? easy!


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## sean_0 (4/5/11)

This is my second incarnation as a brewer, a move between hemispheres stopped my first one. First time round I spent far too much and ended up with a lot of stuff I didn't need. 

This time I was determined be as frugal as possible (for a while anyhow), and with the benefit of hindsight I could buy only exactly what was needed. I've now spent about $220 on equipment, and have done 3 brews at an average cost of $30. Each brew is 23L, which is almost 3 slabs of beer. If I was to buy 9 slabs of megaswill, it would cost me about as much as I've paid for all of my equipment and ingredients so far. So I'm breaking even right now (better really as my beer is top quality). If I don't spend any more on equipment (and i don't really need to), I'll end up a fair bit ahead. 

But then I've been using a mate's burner, so eventually I'll need to get one of my own. Then I might need to upgrade the kettle a bit, ball valve etc, then . . . . . . . . . . it's easy to get carried away


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## Spork (4/5/11)

Stux said:


> ...snip...
> Are we going to put a monetary figure on weekend bbqs and other social events now?



Hmm good idea. Would that make them tax deductible?
*Spork to tax accountant. "My job is very stressful, to wind down I need beer therapy. To reduce the burden to the taxpayer for this therapy I have done the right thing by my country and started to brew my own. Here are my receipts. Can I claim it?"

Woohoo! Quick, spend up big before end of financial year!

I agree with the sentiments of many in this thread. I don't think you can count the monetary cost of what your work pays you per hour for a hobby that you do for your own enjoyment.


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## [email protected] (4/5/11)

dont do it spork! 

i had a conversation with a mate if mine the other night...... princess gillard and her tax on alcohol come up...... so the question was raised..... would the tax be put on home brews?

the deduction that we came up with is no! i wouldnt be! it cant be! reason being is because they are just selling us the gear to make the beer, not the actual fluid itself!if they made the brew on the premises of out LHBS, then that may be different.....

beer and tax dont mix!


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## jakethedog (4/5/11)

I know a bloke who brews homebrew for the sheer cost saving. He buys the cheapest malt can from the supermarket adds sugar(sucrose) and then bottles it in 2L plastic coke bottles - YUK!!!


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## Golani51 (4/5/11)

manticle said:


> I've saved enough to buy myself a small chicken.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know how it balances up, don't really care. I love drinking beer, brewing beer, talking beer, learning about beer and sharing beer.



Manticle: Don't forget- the is no taking a piss like the post- session piss. YEAAAAHHHHH


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## Aus_Rider_22 (4/5/11)

manticle said:


> No idea really anymore. My brews cost less per bottle than a commercial equivalent (presuming there is one available) but I invest a lot of time and a fair bit of my non-disposable income in ingredients, equipment building, brewing books etc.
> 
> As long as I can afford it without starving and as long as I keep enjoying it, I figure I'm ahead. That's enough for me.
> 
> ...



Pretty much the same for me. 

When I find myself waiting for stocks to build or going somewhere for a few drinks (bbq/fishing/etc) I am now purchasing dearer beer as I don't like _just_ drinking Tooheys or XXXX. I don't enjoy drinking them and now that my palate has been opened up to the great world of real beer I seek different styles and brands I haven't tried.


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## donburke (4/5/11)

i just prepared a comprehensive 15 year cashflow projection on my capital and consumable costs of home brewing

it has necessitated the making of numerous assumptions in relation to future events

i have taken steps to verify that these assumptions are reasonable, but no warranty can be given as to the general accuracy of the assumptions made and hence the conclusions of the projection

The projection demonstrates a breakeven in the 11th year, and profitability from the 12th year onwards

i have entered into forward contracts for the malted barley purchases,

a put and call option was needed for the hop acquisitions, with a sunset clause

the spot rate is taken for water,

shares in a carbon filtration company have been acquired, which carries carbon offset credits

key man insurance on me will keep the enterprise in operation should anything happen to my health

a succession plan is also in place, so that offspring can benefit


​BRING ON 2022
​


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## jakethedog (7/2/12)

Golani51 said:


> Definitely cheaper than sex!!




Sex is very expensive (and I am not talking by the hour). Count the cost of dinner/movies/flowers etc. And there is still the risk of the headache card being played!! Or count the cost of what a wife spends per year divided by the number of times you "do it".


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## petesbrew (7/2/12)

Develop a taste for expensive & hard to find belgian (or insert other great brewing country) beers.
Check out the case prices at Dan Murphys, 1st Choice, etc
Learn how to brew the styles instead. 
Boom! You are now saving $100 or so per case.

That's a win for homebrewing.


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## donburke (7/2/12)

petesbrew said:


> Develop a taste for expensive & hard to find belgian (or insert other great brewing country) beers.
> Check out the case prices at Dan Murphys, 1st Choice, etc
> Learn how to brew the styles instead.
> Boom! You are now saving $100 or so per case.
> ...




reminds of the jewish kid that ran home behind the bus to save 20c, gets home and his father tells him off, saying "you should have run behind a taxi and saved $10.00"


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## petesbrew (7/2/12)

donburke said:


> reminds of the jewish kid that ran home behind the bus to save 20c, gets home and his father tells him off, saying "you should have run behind a taxi and saved $10.00"


Haha, Love it.


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## Barndillo (7/2/12)

My first brew in a while is stacking up big time. 70L SS robinox, craycooker burner, new chest freezer, CO2 bottle and then there are the brew ingredients.
Think this batch comes in at ~$1k


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## Spork (7/2/12)

Costs me about $1 per litre to make really delicious beer that I would otherwise be paying $10 - $15 / litre for.
I reckon I have almost recouped the cost of my urn, bag and mill already, and I still have 70 - 80kg of grain left from a bulk buy, and about a kilo of various hops. By the middle of the year I will have covered the cost of my kegging setup easily. Its really nice always having good beer to drink, but hardly ever having to pay much for it.


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## mikec (7/2/12)

michael_aussie said:


> Is this better than sex???



Unless you have AMAZING beer and really BAD sex... no.
But it is cheaper.


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## Thefatdoghead (7/2/12)

I don't think you can put a price on something you love doing and although im very much a novice in all grain brewing im still making WAY better beer than $40 a carton beer. 
The brewing side cost me around $5000 and the fermenting side cost me maybe $2000 with 3 fridges and Erlenmeyer's etc Stock probably costs me $200-$300 at the moment per month but im getting better with my brewing and making so many styles iv'e never tried before and loving it....... I could walk down the road and get a carton yay! I was about to stop drinking before I found all grain.
:beerbang:


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## Clutch (7/2/12)

manticle said:


> I've saved enough to buy myself a small chicken.
> 
> No idea really anymore. My brews cost less per bottle than a commercial equivalent (presuming there is one available) but I invest a lot of time and a fair bit of my non-disposable income in ingredients, equipment building, brewing books etc.
> 
> ...



Agreed brother.

*bumps fist*


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## humulus (7/2/12)

DONT CARE!!!!!!,said it before same as owning the 30k fishing boat and only going out once a month and getting a couple of flatties(nothing wrong with em,best fish in the ocean)Sometimes your hobbies cost a few pennies :icon_chickcheers:


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## pk.sax (7/2/12)

I'm really bad at keeping a book about my expenses. But I do notice that since I started brewing again, even it's spending on this and that, keeping it relatively simple, I actually have cash left in my pocket after paying the car off too!
Last year, this time, I was buying stacks and going through a fair bit (the tropics build a fair thirst) and had bugger all left in the pocket. And me n my roughly a litre a day (max) beer drinking.


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## pokolbinguy (7/2/12)

I don't really want to know how much I have spent on my hobbies over the years....could probably have bought myself a new car by now. All I want to know is when I can next brew and how good its going to be


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## Tony (7/2/12)

I havnt read any other posts, but im sure i know what most contain.

For me... its not about saving or cost. It was in the start, but now....... they could make tooheys new $5 a carton and i would still make my own beer.

I do it for the fun... its my hobby, i do it for the adventure of producing something new different i cany buy, and i do it cause i like gadgets and Stainless Steel


my 2c


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## hhouken (7/2/12)

Now that I am into AG and harvesting yeast I am down to $1 per liter for the ingredients. One of my more expensive brews (and quite possibly the best to date) was a chocolate hazelnut porter (extract based) which set me back $60 or so for 23 liters. The joy of going AG (& BIAB) is great because it totally opens up the world of homebrewing. No style is now out of reach and it helps keep costs down once you have the hardware.


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## Maheel (7/2/12)

i save all that time and money driving to dans for beer....... i still drive there for wine to keep the wife happy


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## jakethedog (7/2/12)

I brew just to hear the relaxing sound of the airlock bubbling - bloop bloop bloop.


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## going down a hill (7/2/12)

jakethedog said:


> I brew just to hear the relaxing sound of the airlock bubbling - bloop bloop bloop.


That's the only downfall of having a brewing fridge, you lose the sound.


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## IainMcLean (7/2/12)

jakethedog said:


> Or count the cost of what a wife spends per year divided by the number of times you "do it".



Isn't that getting into the realms of quantum theory?


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## pmash (7/2/12)

humulus said:


> DONT CARE!!!!!!,said it before same as owning the 30k fishing boat and only going out once a month and getting a couple of flatties(nothing wrong with em,best fish in the ocean)Sometimes your hobbies cost a few pennies :icon_chickcheers:



Slightly :icon_offtopic: Yep, flathead fishing ,
(best on lures in a shallow, hidden Qld. estuary ) 'most under rated table fish and (Braumeister brewing), the most fun you can have with yer pants on and who cares what it costs!

Hang on, who would have thought??????? Beer battered flathead tails ! :beerbang:


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## ledgenko (8/2/12)

Strange Brew said:


> Home Brewing saves tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. If I wasn't home brewing I'd probably be doing one of the following in my spare time:
> 
> Ballroom dancing: up to $150 an hour in lessons, about $1500 for entry level competition.
> Comic book collecting: over $100000 for the origional superman comic.
> ...


Pisser ... LOVE it ... its how that biatch rolls


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## ledgenko (8/2/12)

Tony said:


> I havnt read any other posts, but im sure i know what most contain.
> 
> For me... its not about saving or cost. It was in the start, but now....... they could make tooheys new $5 a carton and i would still make my own beer.
> 
> ...




My $5 worth Tony ... 


Hell yeah .. beer is not beer .. and the liver is evil ... god knows it needs to be punished ... but be nice and punish it with Good beer not Mega swill !!!


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## blakie21 (8/2/12)

Well it goes like this for me...

I made my first drinkable beer which turned out to become a lager instead of a belgian blonde due to my LHBS selling me the wrong yeast.
I get excited.. find out there are decent online HBS's, try liquid yeasts. Get temperature control.. get kegs.. get taps and font... get an urn... get a ball valve for the urn.. buy a BIAB bag... 

and its still the beginning.. haha.

I almost forgot. Tried decent beers, go back to average beers.. not worth drinking.. buy a beermasons membership.. go and buy some beers while I wait for the pack.. 

So all up.. im probably down almost 1k so far... but damn its good to have a hobby! As for the title, I have to disagree. I can't actually be bothered going out anymore unless they have decent beers because home brewing has ruined (enlightened as someone corrected me) my taste buds. I can make a better beer using a can and some hops let alone putting some effort in with grains.


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## petesbrew (8/2/12)

Blakie said:


> I can't actually be bothered going out anymore unless they have decent beers because home brewing has ruined (enlightened as someone corrected me) my taste buds. I can make a better beer using a can and some hops let alone putting some effort in with grains.


Yep, this is the one downside when you start brewing awesome beer.


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## Spork (11/2/12)

A couple of weeks ago I didn't bother going to the Tamar Valley Beerfest.
Work was slow, so watching the pennies.
Nothing there I haven't tried (except maybe xxxx summer ale, and some "special" offering from Boags for the event).
Wooden boat festival was on at same time - and free.
I had 3 kegs of delicious AG beer at home.
$$$ saved right there.


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## cam89brewer (11/2/12)

I think the real savings are if you like those speciality beers such as the last brew I made in which was a Belgian strong dark ale equivalent to a chimay blue label which costs up to $9 a 330ml in the store if not more and for approx $20 - $25 I brewed a beer in which was similar and as satisfying as the real thing.

So lets say 64 bottles of 330ml = ($25 / 64) = $0.39 VS $9.00 for 1 x 330ml bottle 


Can any one else see the benefit of AG brewing? or brewing in general?

:lol: :kooi:


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## Amber Fluid (13/2/12)

Slightly OT but I just did a cost testing on Obelix (my keezer) only yesterday.

Running a full 320L Chesty with collar + STC1000 & computer fan which is on 24/7 was 23c for 24 hours (& 38 minutes).


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## Murcluf (13/2/12)

My idea of good maths

Dan's
Franziskaner Hefe Weissbier 500mL x20 =$89.99 or $8.99 a litre

Wayne's 
HB Bavarian Hefe Weissbier 19lt x 2= $50 or $1.32 a litre (price includes all ingredients gas, electricity)

Also my Hefe Weissbier doesn't have any of those travel related and poor handling issues the one's at Dan's tend to have.


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## Nick JD (13/2/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> Slightly OT but I just did a cost testing on Obelix (my keezer) only yesterday.
> 
> Running a full 320L Chesty with collar + STC1000 & computer fan which is on 24/7 was 23c for 24 hours (& 38 minutes).



$20 a powerbill? That's pretty good I reckon.


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## Amber Fluid (13/2/12)

Yeah Nick that's right.

I used one of these kits






But it is the PowerMate in the kit that measures the costs and energy/power.

$20 a quarter is pretty good imo.


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## SJW (13/2/12)

Dont care. Probably would of been cheaper to but VB all these years.


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