# VICBREW 2015



## MartinOC

This is a call for JUDGES and STEWARDS for VicBrew 2015. 

This year it will be held on the 26th and 27th of September at the Belgian Beer Cafe Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne, Melway 2F E7. This is a BJCP sanctioned and registered competition, and all judges are welcome.

Could you please fill out the form located here http://goo.gl/forms/eH1jAQIzQ0 with your details and preferences.

Starting times for the sessions are expected to be:

Morning session (9.00 am start):

Afternoon session (1 pm start, 5pm finish):

Lunch will be provided for all judges and stewards.

We encourage you to pass this message along to any of your friends or acquaintances who might be interested in judging or stewarding. If you have questions, feel free to email[email protected]

Thanks for your assistance,

Mort Piripi

on behalf of the VicBrew2015 organising committee


----------



## DU99

i am free that weekend..


----------



## Yob

Nuts.. Big ask this year, Yob Jr will be about a week or so old or over cooked


----------



## Mardoo

I will stand in your stead sir.


----------



## Grainer

Booked in


----------



## mxd

Is that the weekend Richmond is in the gf ?


----------



## Yob

No matt, that's 2024


----------



## mxd

Yob said:


> No matt, that's 2024


I'm 
You were wrong mate it was 2224 

Go tigers 1 year at a time


----------



## manticle

1st one to be missed since 2012.
Hope the beers are good.


----------



## Spiesy

mxd said:


> I'm
> You were wrong mate it was 2224
> 
> Go tigers 1 year at a time


Sorry for the OT, but how's about those Tigers!?

Back in topic, are details on the comp (for brewers) available somewhere?


----------



## MartinOC

Spiesy said:


> are details on the comp (for brewers) available somewhere?


What "details" are you after? Does this help?: http://www.vicbrew.org/maps/vicbrew2015.htm


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Super keen on stewarding, what date is the latest one can register? Want to confirm sister's bday won't interrupt my plans


----------



## Yob

26th September wasn't it?


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Super keen on stewarding, what date is the latest one can register? Want to confirm sister's bday won't interrupt my plans


Just put your name down now & if things change, let us know ASAP so we can accommodate.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Sweet mate, I assume the category nominations are more relevant for judges and allocating them than stewards yeah? I haven't decided what categories I'm entering yet that's all.... :huh:


----------



## Spiesy

MartinOC said:


> What "details" are you after? Does this help?: http://www.vicbrew.org/maps/vicbrew2015.htm


That would be them.Thanks.


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Sweet mate, I assume the category nominations are more relevant for judges and allocating them than stewards yeah? I haven't decided what categories I'm entering yet that's all.... :huh:


Yep. If you're Stewarding, it's not really that relevant if you've got an entry in a particular category. It all gets explained on the day.


----------



## syl

LOOKING FORWARD TO IT!!!!!!!


----------



## Yob

Only one entry per style right? 

So I must choose between raspberry RIS and whisky RIS now?

Oh the humanity...


----------



## MartinOC

syl said:


> LOOKING FORWARD TO IT!!!!!!!


Does this mean you're going to Judge/Steward????



Yob said:


> Only one entry per style right?
> 
> So I must choose between raspberry RIS and whisky RIS now?
> 
> Oh the humanity...


Two entries per style, one per Sub-Style. Since your penchant is for weird & wonderful, these two will only fit into "Specialty", so you could legitimately enter them both in Specialty.....but that's it for you my son...


----------



## syl

MartinOC said:


> Does this mean you're going to Judge/Steward????


I would love to, and I appreciate all the work everyone does, but I can't make those dates.

I will throw in some entries though.

This time of year is just out of hand unfortunately, brewery building and business planning for the day job...

Keep up the good work all y'all. If my circumstances change I will get down to steward!


----------



## MartinOC

syl said:


> I would love to, and I appreciate all the work everyone does, but I can't make those dates.
> 
> I will throw in some entries though.
> 
> This time of year is just out of hand unfortunately, brewery building and business planning for the day job...
> 
> Keep up the good work all y'all. If my circumstances change I will get down to steward!


Cool. I can always do with an extra hand if you just decide to rock-up & help-out.....and drink freebies...


----------



## VP Brewing

Which category would a black IPA go in?


----------



## Fourstar

VP Brewing said:


> Which category would a black IPA go in?


specialty probably.


----------



## Yob

Aren't there new cats for it?


----------



## MartinOC

VP Brewing said:


> Which category would a black IPA go in?


At the moment, it would be "Specialty" until categories get re-allocated.



Fourstar said:


> specialty probably.


Wot he said.....



Yob said:


> Aren't there new cats for it?


At the moment, NO.

No changes to the Vicbrew categories until after AABC 2015, when the state Delegates will decide on what changes to all categories for entry to state & National cat's will be decided-upon.

Feel free to put an entry-in, but it's going to HAVE to go into "Specialty" until a decision is made.


----------



## VP Brewing

Thanks. Specialty it is then.


----------



## Andy_Chil

I have never had a go at competition before and have decided to give this a crack. I can't seem to find the Vic Brew on the Comp Master website to register. Does this mean I should just use the paper form?


----------



## syl

I can't see it either - I haven't tried to enter yet though.


----------



## MartinOC

Hi Guys,

Just wait awhile. Andy D. has been developing an updated version of CM which I believe should be good to go live in the next few days-a week or so. Keep your eyes peeled & I'll also post-up here when it's ready to go.


----------



## syl

That's what I thought, hence sitting tight.


----------



## MartinOC

Hey! Am I up with it or NOT!?!?!?

VICBREW is apparently active on CM as of midday (ie. now), but can't accept entries for 2015 until last year's data is cleaned-out.

Watch this space...


----------



## Blind Dog

Might be a dumb question but the flyer linked previously states:

*NOTE: Online entries will still need to be delivered to a Vicbrew 2015 collection centre by Saturday 05/09/2015*

but directly below states:

Entries may be submitted upto Saturday 12th September 2015 at the following collection points:


Which is correct or am I missing something obvious?


----------



## MartinOC

Well spotted, Centurion!!

The 5th seems a little early. Without having to trawl, can you please point me to where the conflict lies & I'll seek clarification/rectification from the numpty who dunnit?

Ta!


----------



## Black n Tan

It is on Vicbrew 2015 page on the Vicbrew website under 'on-line entries'

"Online Entries:

Online Entry Registration is available for Vicbrew 2015 From August 1st via compmaster http://www.compmaster.com.au
NOTE: Online entries will still need to be delivered to a Vicbrew 2015 collection centre by Saturday 05/09/2015


Entries may be submitted upto Saturday 12th September 2015 at the following collection points:"


----------



## MartinOC

Ta! Clarification sought from the powers that be.....

Edit: Clarification sought & confirmed that *12/9/15 *is the correct cutoff date for drop-off. The website will be amended this evening.


----------



## Yob

do I need to be concerned about this?


----------



## MartinOC

That's a bit unusual. Anyone else getting that error message when registering?

I'll ask AndyD to have a look at it.


----------



## Andyd

Jesse,

It's all good. That's one I haven't cleared in the app. Will go hit it now. Your entries are in there.

Andy


----------



## beaker

Just paid for my entry on compmaster, no error message for me.

First entry into a homebrew comp, kind of exciting, especially as I've just noticed I've been lurking on here for three years! Time to get amongst it eh.


----------



## Yob

Andyd said:


> Jesse,
> 
> It's all good. That's one I haven't cleared in the app. Will go hit it now. Your entries are in there.
> 
> Andy


Swoit B)


----------



## hoppinmad

Sorry Martin....hijacking the thread a little.. but for those keen to test out their beers in a bjcp registered interclub comp prior to Vicbrew 2015, Geelong Craft Brewers will be holding a competition on September 5th. This competition is inviting entries from 2014 Vicbrew's 5 most popular categories, based on number of entries. These being:

Amber & Dark Lager
Bitter Ale
Pale Ale
American Pale Ale
Specialty

Plenty of great prizes on offer, including a $200 gift voucher from Grain and Grape awarded to Champion Brewer.

Entries close Saturday, August 28th. For more details, including prizes, entry conditions, pick up points, etc, visit our website http://www.geelongcraftbrewers.org/index.php/top-5

Cheers!


----------



## MartinOC

beaker said:


> Just paid for my entry on compmaster, no error message for me.
> 
> First entry into a homebrew comp, kind of exciting, especially as I've just noticed I've been lurking on here for three years! Time to get amongst it eh.


Geez, mate. That's some SERIOUS restraint!!

Wouldn't it be ironic if you were to take-out Best Novice & Champion Beer of Show gongs....


----------



## Andyd

It's becoming a bit of a trend to have a novice take out the comp in a clean sweep... Good luck Beaker, and thanks for the "all's well" report!

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## peekaboo_jones

When completing an online entry, you don't have to list any information compared to the written entry form: i.e. yeast used, OG, FG.
Is this correct?


----------



## Grainer

Yes same stuff


----------



## MartinOC

Long story short, that extra information requirement goes back a long time & AndyD will be incorporating them into the new version of CM as it's developed.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Thanks, no worries. I was beginning to think I missed something


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Sweet, entries done and paid for. Bottle a couple of them this weekend/warm up in brew fridge and drop off early next month


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Long story short, that extra information requirement goes back a long time & AndyD will be incorporating them into the new version of CM as it's developed.


This concerned me for my entries, didn't see where to put it in CM 

Was going to put vital stat's on the bottle so you can catch it at sorting out the serving order?


----------



## MartinOC

Any additional information provided by the brewer is REALLY only relevant for Specialties. All the others go by the designated sub-style (in random serving order) within categories, which generally get served in increasing colour & ABV content.

Clear as mud? I know that may sound convoluted, but it works.


----------



## MartinOC

This is the second call for JUDGES and STEWARDS for VicBrew 2015. 
So far we have only half the number of people required to have everything run smoothly. If you're able to help out at all, please get in touch.
If you've already contacted us, thank you very much for your help, it is greatly appreciated.
Please pass this message along to club email lists and any friends or acquaintances who may be interested in judging or stewarding at Vicbrew this year.

Vicbrew will be held on the 26th and 27th of September at the Belgian Beer Cafe Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne, Melway 2F E7. This is a BJCP sanctioned and registered competition, and all judges are welcome. 

Could you please fill out the form located here http://goo.gl/forms/eH1jAQIzQ0 with your details and preferences.

Starting times for the sessions are expected to be:

Morning session (9.00 am start):
Afternoon session (1 pm start, 5pm finish):

Lunch will be provided for all judges and stewards.

If you have questions, or the online form isn't working for you, feel free to email [email protected]

Thanks for your assistance,

Mort Piripi

on behalf of the VicBrew2015 organising committee


----------



## DU99

whats shift's are they short on..i can do sat morning if needed


----------



## MartinOC

Saturday is always the busiest day. I'll get Mort to identify the gaps & post-up here.


----------



## Dips Me Lid

I just signed up for Saturday morning and afternoon, looking forward to it.

Cheers
Dan.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Where would a belgian style wheat (ie orange and coriander-ish) fit in the Vicbrew categories?


----------



## MartinOC

http://www.vicbrew.org/Files/AABC2015_CategoriesAndStylesList.pdf

Erm....17.1......?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Thanks Mr O.

I didnt look beyond the obivous heading number 16.


----------



## MartinOC

Is OK... Belgian Wits got changed from the Wheat beer category to Farmhouse a few years ago.

Baltic Porters are still in the Porter category (rather than strong/dark lager...?? :huh: ).

Milds are in the low alcohol category, whereas traditionally, an OG of 1080 for milds was not uncommon....

Just go with the flow mate....


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Works for me. Separate categories for two different wheaties I'm considering entering


----------



## Grainer

Is there a description available for OTHER MEAD?? Best if the mead was named
Cheers


----------



## MartinOC

19.6 Other Mead
Meads in the Other Mead style are honey-based beverages that
either combines ingredients from two or more of the other mead
styles, is a historical or indigenous mead (e.g., tej, Polish meads),
or is a mead that does not fit into any other style. Any specialty or
experimental mead using additional sources of fermentables (e.g.,
maple syrup, molasses, brown sugar, or agave nectar), additional
ingredients (e.g., vegetables, liquors, smoke, etc.), alternative
processes (e.g., icing, oak-aging) or other unusual ingredient,
process, or technique would also be appropriate in this style. No
mead can be “out of style” for this style unless it fits into another
existing mead style.
Aroma, appearance, flavour, mouthfeel: generally follow the
standard descriptions, yet note that all the characteristics may vary.
Since a wide range of entries are possible, note that the
characteristics may reflect combinations of the respective elements
of the various styles. They may be dry, semi-sweet or sweet. If the
entered mead is a combination of other existing mead styles, refer
to the constituent styles for a detailed description of the character
of the component styles.
Overall Impression: This mead should exhibit the character of all
of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good
blending or balance between the various flavour elements.
Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable
as a honey-based fermented beverage.
Comments: See standard description for entrance requirements.
Entrants MUST specify carbonation level (still, petillant, or
sparkling), strength, and sweetness. Entrants MAY specify honey
varieties. Entrants MUST specify the special nature of the mead,
whether it is a combination of existing styles, an experimental
mead, a historical mead, or some other creation. Any special
ingredients that impart an identifiable character MAY be declared.


----------



## Grainer

Entrants MUST specify carbonation level (still, petillant, or
sparkling), strength, and sweetness. Entrants MAY specify honey
varieties. Entrants MUST specify the special nature of the mead,
whether it is a combination of existing styles, an experimental
mead, a historical mead, or some other creation. Any special
ingredients that impart an identifiable character MAY be declared. 



*... but this is impossible in the comp master entry form !.. do we just add it to the bottle and this is provided to judges???*


----------



## Yob

It's what I'm gunna do John, the stewards will have to pick it up on sorting the order, shouldn't be too hard to do (but a PITA)


----------



## DU99

Lucky that's hopefully being judged on sunday.. :unsure:


----------



## mxd

Last year I think I got an email asking what my speciality was details etc ..


----------



## mezz94

I have a Red Ale what category would I put it in.


----------



## mxd

An Irish red? If so its in there somewhere maybe Browns ?


----------



## mezz94

Its a hoppy red ale similar to the Nail Brewing Red Ale. Irish Red be ok you think?


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> Entrants MUST specify carbonation level (still, petillant, or
> sparkling), strength, and sweetness. Entrants MAY specify honey
> varieties. Entrants MUST specify the special nature of the mead,
> whether it is a combination of existing styles, an experimental
> mead, a historical mead, or some other creation. Any special
> ingredients that impart an identifiable character MAY be declared.
> 
> 
> 
> *... but this is impossible in the comp master entry form !.. do we just add it to the bottle and this is provided to judges???*


Yep, this is something we need to "tweak" with AndyD as he upgrades/improves the new version of CM. Since 19.6 is not a greatly patronised sub-style (the only NAMED example I can think of off the top of my head is Hippocras), it's not too daunting a task for the organiser to contact the entrant to get greater details (if not already provided). Anything you do up-front is greatly appreciated... As you see by the style guidelines, you MUST specify some & MAY specify other characteristics & ingredients.



mxd said:


> Last year I think I got an email asking what my speciality was details etc ..


Exactly! The Specialty category entrants usually provide (or are asked to provide) details of what's "Special" about their beers in additional notes, which are provided to the judges. Again, anything you provide up-front is appreciated & prevents having to "chase" people for information.



mezz94 said:


> I have a Red Ale what category would I put it in.


You'll need to be a bit more specific about what you think it is. Irish Red obviously springs to mind, but then you also have Flanders Red...? Details please & I'll try to guide you as best I can.


----------



## MartinOC

mezz94 said:


> Its a hoppy red ale similar to the Nail Brewing Red Ale. Irish Red be ok you think?


Hmm.... 6% ABV, 35 IBU's & dry-hopped with US tropical-fruity style hops.

It's probably somewhere between an APA (Cat. 7) & an American Amber (Cat. 8.4). At 35 IBU, it's a bit on the low-side. There's nothing stopping you from entering in both categories if you want to do so.

Since it's got all those "New-World" hops in it, it's likely to get caned if you enter it as an Irish Red.

'Hope that helps!


----------



## mxd

mezz94 said:


> Its a hoppy red ale similar to the Nail Brewing Red Ale. Irish Red be ok you think?


Special or maybe an American brown or apa.


----------



## mezz94

Yeah I was thinking the American Amber but I know they are normally more malt forward. I might do what you suggest and enter in both.


----------



## Grainer

Im gunna have to ask for some of my mead when they open it after the judges have finished with it.. it has never been drunk before.. I had a sip and is is soo good... only have 6 bottles of it so it is rare..


----------



## Blind Dog

Been granted a limited edition 1 day leave pass. Do you need stewards sat or sun?


----------



## Yob

I think they still do (at least was the case a few days ago) pm MartinOC and he'll let you know where the gaps are


----------



## Spiesy

Finding it a little hard to find what volume of beer is required per entry... wish this basic stuff was on Compmaster (maybe it is and I'm blind?).

500ml minimum per entry?


----------



## Black n Tan

Spiesy said:


> Finding it a little hard to find what volume of beer is required per entry... wish this basic stuff was on Compmaster (maybe it is and I'm blind?).
> 
> 500ml minimum per entry?


yep 500mL minimum


----------



## MartinOC

Black n Tan said:


> yep 500mL minimum


Correct.

I'll also add NO STUBBIES OR CHAMPAGNE BOTTLES WILL BE ACCEPTED! (ie. two 375ml stubbies submitted as a 750ml total entry will not be accepted - it's just too hard to manage logistically & for storage, as they don't fit in our crates).

I'll put this up in a Status update as well, just in case this post gets missed by some entrants.


----------



## MartinOC

Blind Dog said:


> Been granted a limited edition 1 day leave pass. Do you need stewards sat or sun?


Well done getting the leave pass! Saturday is currently easily covered, so I'd prefer Sunday if that fits with your plans.

Slainte!


----------



## Mardoo

I can shift to Sunday if you need more folks on Sunday Martin.


----------



## Yob

Do it.. Speciality is Sunday if I'm not mistaken...


----------



## Blind Dog

In for Sunday


----------



## worthogs webmaster

Might be able to get Glenn up on one or both days, but I can't promise.


----------



## MartinOC

Mardoo said:


> I can shift to Sunday if you need more folks on Sunday Martin.


It's not just a matter of needing more folks on a particular day (this is difficult to explain, as it's a bit of a juggling-act...). Saturday is the BIG day, when we try to get through the bulk of the entries & break the back of what we've got to get through. I think we've currently got enough bodies to achieve that.

Sunday is still important, but is generally a bit more laid-back as we wind-down into the close. That said, there's a lot more cleaning/clearing/sorting & re-packing all the gear on the Sunday. Plus, the "weird-stuff" tends to come out on the Sunday... Choose your poison, my friend. You will be welcome either day.



Yob said:


> Do it.. Speciality is Sunday if I'm not mistaken...


If last year is anything to go by, it'll go all weekend. It was the largest category by far....



Blind Dog said:


> In for Sunday


WOOF!!!!


----------



## MartinOC

worthogs webmaster said:


> Might be able to get Glenn up on one or both days, but I can't promise.


Oh, go on! Give the fella a leave pass! At least you'll know where he is.....


----------



## worthogs webmaster

I'm hassling him to go! I've got him saying he'll do the Sunday, he's certainly got a leave pass from me. At least it's not my birthday this time!


----------



## MartinOC

worthogs webmaster said:


> I'm hassling him to go! I've got him saying he'll do the Sunday, he's certainly got a leave pass from me. At least it's not my birthday this time!


You say that like you don't like a room full of blokes singing "Happy Birthday" to you??? It was my partner's Birthday one year & I went & got flowers & got everyone to sing for her. BOY, did I cop it (in the nicest possible way  )!!!


----------



## worthogs webmaster

I must admit that was nice. I don't have parties, so I don't usually get that.


----------



## Black n Tan

MartinOC said:


> Correct.
> 
> I'll also add NO STUBBIES OR CHAMPAGNE BOTTLES WILL BE ACCEPTED! (ie. two 375ml stubbies submitted as a 750ml total entry will not be accepted - it's just too hard to manage logistically & for storage, as they don't fit in our crates).
> 
> I'll put this up in a Status update as well, just in case this post gets missed by some entrants.


Hmmm no champagne bottles :angry: Surely a change such as this needs to be broadcast to the brewing community well before it is implemented. Some beers are suited to champagne bottles such as highly carbonated and aged Belgian styles. I have a Belgian dark strong that was bottled sometime ago in champagne and grolsch bottles (450mL), so what do i do? Surely others will similarly caught out, so how about a transition period or some flexibility based on styles i.e.. champagne bottle only allowed for certain styles?


----------



## MartinOC

Black n Tan said:


> Hmmm no champagne bottles :angry: Surely a change such as this needs to be broadcast to the brewing community well before it is implemented. Some beers are suited to champagne bottles such as highly carbonated and aged Belgian styles. I have a Belgian dark strong that was bottled sometime ago in champagne and grolsch bottles (450mL), so what do i do? Surely others will similarly caught out, so how about a transition period or some flexibility based on styles i.e.. champagne bottle only allowed for certain styles?


I feel for you, sport....but them's the rules/guidelines:

http://www.vicbrew.org/Files/EntryFormVicBrew2015.pdf

Rules & information:

"4. One bottle per entry (750ml preferred) with a minimum of 500 ml beer. No Champagne bottles please."

Now, with that stated & written in stone as the rules ARE, I can feel a certain laissez-faire, sorta-kinda vibe happening here with your 450's.......


----------



## GalBrew

I can tell you from experience that champagne bottles are a massive PITA. They are slightly too tall for the storage crates which makes it a nightmare to stack crates in the cool room at the venue, which has limited space to begin with. As one of the monkeys who has to repeatedly stack and unstack crates I can tell you that the 750ml champagne bottles are really unhelpful.


----------



## manticle

Make a label for the 450s that says ~500mL


----------



## Black n Tan

I perfectly appreciate the reason for the rule, I was mainly concerned with the notice period for a change in rules. 

Actually I am pretty sure those Groslch bottles I have are 500mL ones (quite rare, new glass blower with bigger lungs or some such), my mistake, move on, nothing to see here.


----------



## MartinOC

GalBrew said:


> I can tell you from experience that champagne bottles are a massive PITA. They are slightly too tall for the storage crates which makes it a nightmare to stack crates in the cool room at the venue, which has limited space to begin with. As one of the monkeys who has to repeatedly stack and unstack crates I can tell you that the 750ml champagne bottles are really unhelpful.


WOT HE SAID!



manticle said:


> Make a label for the 450s that says ~500mL


 



Black n Tan said:


> I perfectly appreciate the reason for the rule, I was mainly concerned with the notice period for a change in rules.
> 
> Actually I am pretty sure those Groslch bottles I have are 500mL ones (quite rare, new glass blower with bigger lungs or some such), my mistake, move on, nothing to see here.


Enter it...it'll be fine.

Edit: Go & change your armour....


----------



## Yob

Drop off Early Saturday 12/09/2015

What classifies as "early".. Doesn't bother me as I'll be dropping mine this weekend but might be good to have a clear time for peeps


----------



## MartinOC

That would be before the collection points close for business on that day, since entries will be collected before they close.


----------



## Yob

so wouldnt it be best to state a 10am time or some such, as a previous mule, I know that some people get multiple shop to collect from at they need to be at the LAST one by COB, which means they might be at their first on 10-11am..

Im just suggesting stating an early time so as folks wont miss the mule.. some folks dont bottle till the day, I know I have in the past, setting an early time may save some grief..


----------



## MartinOC

Quote from one of the "Mules":

"Pickups will be from 12/09
In the very rare case where a country pickup is at say 11am and some dil 
complains his entry submitted to brew store at 12:59 didnt make it we 
tell them its too bad unless they arrange to get entry to us themselves 
by (arbitrary deadline).

In reality many collection points will have pickup a few days after the 
deadline but its not possible to have someone in Sale and Geelong and 
Ballarat and Bendigo at closing time of brew shop on Sat 12th"

Lesson from this is to get your entries in THIS weekend if you're unable to get them there during the week. Don't leave it until the death-knell on the 12th.


----------



## primusbrew

About to register a couple of entries through compmaster. Just curious as to why OG, FG and yeast strain is required? I don't have a problem with it, just wondering what that info is used for. Does this help the judges?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Looking forward to Vicbrew this year.

I am looking at my biggest entry in a comp ever with 7 submissions.

For all but one of them I have a back up bottle on the off chance every else submits infected bottles and I get into the Nationals.

How many is everyone else getting in?


----------



## Black n Tan

primusbrew said:


> About to register a couple of entries through compmaster. Just curious as to why OG, FG and yeast strain is required? I don't have a problem with it, just wondering what that info is used for. Does this help the judges?


I do know that OG and FG are used to create order of the flight, such that the lighter styles beers are judged before the heavier styles. Not sure if the judges are privy to this though.


----------



## MartinOC

primusbrew said:


> About to register a couple of entries through compmaster. Just curious as to why OG, FG and yeast strain is required? I don't have a problem with it, just wondering what that info is used for. Does this help the judges?


Long story short, that extra information requirement goes back a long time (PM me if you want to know the sordid details....) & yes, that information is used in sorting-out the serving order & correct category allocation.


----------



## Yob

I put my %14 RIS down as %6 so it doesn't get served last at 26'c

(not really, just shit stirring)


----------



## Mardoo

Did I just completely miss the part of Compmaster where we enter that info?


----------



## Yob

It's there this morning when I looked at entering a Belgian Pale but wasn't there where I entered my RIS...

Dunno...


----------



## Mardoo

Bugger. I've added it in for past entries. Guess it hasn't been fully fixed yet. I'll just include it with my entry I guess.


----------



## MartinOC

Sorry, fellas. No idea what's going on there. Maybe AndyD is doing some updates? I'll shoot him an email & see what's going on & get back to you.


----------



## Grainer

Compmaster changed so all my entries have no descriptions.. just on the bottles.. but the last beer i put in late has compmaster descriptions.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Same, I entered last week and extra options weren't there. might add a label with ABV to each bottle. 
Oh somehow I managed to find 6 entries B-)


----------



## mxd

GrumpyPaul said:


> .
> 
> How many is everyone else getting in?


I did a carpet bomb with some average beers


----------



## MartinOC

mxd said:


> I did a carpet bomb with some average beers


Hey, it's your money, Ralph........


----------



## beaker

MartinOC said:


> Geez, mate. That's some SERIOUS restraint!!
> 
> Wouldn't it be ironic if you were to take-out Best Novice & Champion Beer of Show gongs....


Ha, little chance of that.

Restraint came from not feeling like I had any knowledge to contribute, so I've just been reading and learning over time. I might actually get prepared for next years comp and start bottling a few more batches.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

mxd said:


> I did a carpet bomb with some average beers


Define carpet bomb....


----------



## MartinOC

MartinOC said:


> Sorry, fellas. No idea what's going on there. Maybe AndyD is doing some updates? I'll shoot him an email & see what's going on & get back to you.


OK, this was brought to AndyD's attention last night & has been fixed. It looks like when last year's comp was transferred to the updated version, these fields got missed. All good to go.



beaker said:


> Ha, little chance of that.
> 
> Restraint came from not feeling like I had any knowledge to contribute, so I've just been reading and learning over time. I might actually get prepared for next years comp and start bottling a few more batches.


No problem, sport! Everyone starts off like that. Perfectly natural. You're increasing your knowledge & that's where the improvements start to take-off. Beer is made in the head first......Then you gotta drink 'em to find out how much better you're getting...



GrumpyPaul said:


> Define carpet bomb....


Indiscriminate (ie. inaccurate) flooding of categories/comps with as many beers as you can in the hope of hitting the target. A numbers game, rather than a quest for accuracy.

There was a bloke many years ago that did this (as well as other unscrupulous stuff). That's why there's the "2 entries per category/1 per sub-style" rule.


----------



## mxd

MartinOC said:


> Indiscriminate (ie. inaccurate) flooding of categories/comps with as many beers as you can in the hope of hitting the target. A numbers game, rather than a quest for accuracy.
> 
> There was a bloke many years ago that did this (as well as other unscrupulous stuff). That's why there's the "2 entries per category/1 per sub-style" rule.


Mine are all in style, for me it was 13 different styles that had had brewed over the last 6 months, some are quite average, but I bottled them so the judges can have em as well


----------



## idzy

Hi Martin,

I don't know if it's too late, but I have put my name down as 'judge' for Saturday. More just spectate and see how things are done.

Cheers,
Idzy


----------



## MartinOC

mxd said:


> Mine are all in style, for me it was 13 different styles that had had brewed over the last 6 months, some are quite average, but I bottled them so the judges can have em as well


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......shiiittttttt............ZZZZZZZZZZ............Can SOMEONE please increase the drag on this reel????....zzzzzzzz.........



idzy said:


> Hi Martin,
> 
> I don't know if it's too late, but I have put my name down as 'judge' for Saturday. More just spectate and see how things are done.
> 
> Cheers,
> Idzy


Possibly too late to be allocated as a dedicated judge, but if you want to learn your palate/judge-craft, there shouldn't be a problem with slotting you in with a panel so you get to see how everything is done. Each panel should have a BJCP qualified judge on it, so you'll get some valuable experience/guidance. Just come & see me on the day & we'll work it out.


----------



## NealK

I heard that if you have too many entries for a style you can just enter them in your wife's name as long as she helped you bottle them. Is this true?


----------



## MartinOC

I know that situation to which you refer, oh brewer of utmost integrity....

It has to be accepted ('though frowned-upon by those that know the people involved...) & un-challengeable according to the rules.

The brewer's wife is no longer able to qualify as Novice etc...etc.....

Let it be said that if there is/are winning entries from the spouse, that words will be had with the offending person...


----------



## NealK

My wife wouldn't let me anyway, she's mean like that!


----------



## MartinOC

Give her a few more of your beers to sweeten her up (or "other" things....  ).

NB: Giving your spouse a riotously-good seeing-to on the washing machine during it's spin-cycle will not be an acceptable excuse for "rogue" entries to Vicbrew in a court of law..


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Got my steward app in and trying to paid for my brew entry, I select 'pay for my entries' and it just says 'payment pending'. What happens next?

Should add from there all i cant seem to do is cancel payments and it goes back one step, weird?


----------



## worthogs webmaster

One day I will start brewing (as a spouse of an entrant). Before you ask, we haven't got around to dropping off entries yet. I haven't looked into it but are you required to use Compmaster, or is it optional?


----------



## mudd

A style question. a smoked helles entered in smoked beers(specialty) or helles (pale lager) categories? Think along the lines of a Schlenkerla Helles if you've ever had the joy of trying one.

I know I can enter in both..... by the way.


----------



## hoppinmad

I don't think there is actually a "smoked beer" style within the specialty category. There is a "classic rauchbier" but a smoked helles would have to be entered as "other" I'm assuming??


----------



## manticle

Smoked helles in pale lager would suffer.
Spec for sure although it should be judged as a helles and what the spec ingredient brings to the overall balance. Good helles is really delicate (still complex) - smoke could easily overshadow.


----------



## Charst

MartinOC said:


> I feel for you, sport....but them's the rules/guidelines:


Lucky Black n Tan has a Grolsh Bottle. Unfortunately this new rule rules out the Saison and Brett Saison I bottled In Champagne 9 Months ago.
I was giving them time to mature just for this comp. When was the decision to not allow these bottles made?

Will there be leniences regarding carbonation in the styles which a carbonation level id be frighten to put in a standard longneck is the expectation?

Does this rule carry through to the Nationals? or will your Vic brew winning under carbed comp beer be then judged against beers in appropriate bottles for style?

I get Champagnes a pain in the arse, but plastics bullshit for a big Belgian ive put my heart and soul into, and I cant imagine vic brews suggesting I run the risk delivering a bottle bomb to a steward.


----------



## mudd

HoppinMad said:


> I don't think there is actually a "smoked beer" style within the specialty category. There is a "classic rauchbier" but a smoked helles would have to be entered as "other" I'm assuming??


Thanks "Other" it may well be then. Can't imagine it would fit classic rauchbier.


----------



## Andy_Chil

I used Comp Master about four weeks ago to enter and was not prompted for any OG FG yeast etc. do I need to do anything about this prior to dropping off my bottles next week?


----------



## MartinOC

Charst said:


> Lucky Black n Tan has a Grolsh Bottle. Unfortunately this new rule rules out the Saison and Brett Saison I bottled In Champagne 9 Months ago.
> I was giving them time to mature just for this comp. When was the decision to not allow these bottles made?
> 
> I've been bitching to the Committee about champagne bottles for years & it came to a head following last year's comp. The decision to exclude them for this year's comp was taken during the debrief. Rule changes are an ongoing evolution to improve the overall running of the Comp. Unfortunately, you've been caught by this one. Better luck next year.
> 
> Will there be leniences regarding carbonation in the styles which a carbonation level id be frighten to put in a standard longneck is the expectation?
> Beers are judged as they are presented.
> 
> Does this rule carry through to the Nationals? or will your Vic brew winning under carbed comp beer be then judged against beers in appropriate bottles for style?
> 
> This rule applies to Vicbrew. I'm unable to answer for the AABC, nor for any other State competitions.
> 
> I get Champagnes a pain in the arse, but plastics bullshit for a big Belgian ive put my heart and soul into, and I cant imagine vic brews suggesting I run the risk delivering a bottle bomb to a steward.
> 
> I'm sure you & your friends will enjoy the beers you have, irrespective of whether they're entered in Vicbrew or not.





Andy_Chil said:


> I used Comp Master about four weeks ago to enter and was not prompted for any OG FG yeast etc. do I need to do anything about this prior to dropping off my bottles next week?


No need to do anything at this stage. As long as the category/style is clearly stated, we'll take it from there.


----------



## hoppinmad

"I've been bitching to the Committee about champagne bottles for years & it came to a head following last year's comp. The decision to exclude them for this year's comp was taken during the debrief. Rule changes are an ongoing evolution to improve the overall running of the Comp. Unfortunately, you've been caught by this one. Better luck next year. "

This says to me that the rule has been created because one person in the committee has a problem with champagne bottles. It almost sounds like you are saying that brewers are lucky you let us enter at all... so deal with it. 

I don't see a single state comp this year disallowing champagne bottles, so is there are reason why chief stewards of those states can run a comp with champagne bottles and Vicbrew can't?

Also, I completely agree with charst with regards to carbonation levels of some beer styles not being suited to regular beer bottles. I certainly wouldn't be bottling a batch that required 4 volumes into regular beer bottles!

Rant over.... <_<


----------



## GalBrew

HoppinMad said:


> "I've been bitching to the Committee about champagne bottles for years & it came to a head following last year's comp. The decision to exclude them for this year's comp was taken during the debrief. Rule changes are an ongoing evolution to improve the overall running of the Comp. Unfortunately, you've been caught by this one. Better luck next year. "
> 
> This says to me that the rule has been created because one person in the committee has a problem with champagne bottles. It almost sounds like you are saying that brewers are lucky you let us enter at all... so deal with it.
> 
> I don't see a single state comp this year disallowing champagne bottles, so is there are reason why chief stewards of those states can run a comp with champagne bottles and Vicbrew can't?
> 
> Also, I completely agree with charst with regards to carbonation levels of some beer styles not being suited to regular beer bottles. I certainly wouldn't be bottling a batch that required 4 volumes into regular beer bottles!
> 
> Rant over.... <_<


Wrong! We all hate them. They are too tall for our storage crates, which need to be stacked head high in the limited cool room space we have. A single champagne bottle can mean that we can't stack our crates in the order of which the beers will be judged. It is a massive PITA and it is not that hard to not use them.

Might I also add that this comp is run on a wholly volunteer basis where we give up a lot of time to further the cause of Victorian homebrew on a limited budget. If you would like to provide us with 40-50 stackable crates that hold champagne bottles then maybe we can revisit the issue.


----------



## MartinOC

HoppinMad said:


> "I've been bitching to the Committee about champagne bottles for years & it came to a head following last year's comp. The decision to exclude them for this year's comp was taken during the debrief. Rule changes are an ongoing evolution to improve the overall running of the Comp. Unfortunately, you've been caught by this one. Better luck next year. "
> 
> This says to me that the rule has been created because one person in the committee has a problem with champagne bottles. It almost sounds like you are saying that brewers are lucky you let us enter at all... so deal with it.
> 
> Your interpretation is incorrect. The ENTIRE organising Committee has a problem with champagne bottles. The rule was introduced for the better running of the comp. & was a unanimous decision by the committee as a whole, based on the suggestion raised by the Chairman himself. Deal with THAT!
> 
> I don't see a single state comp this year disallowing champagne bottles, so is there are reason why chief stewards of those states can run a comp with champagne bottles and Vicbrew can't?
> 
> As above, I can't answer for any other State or the National comp. This is a Vicbrew initiative.
> 
> Also, I completely agree with charst with regards to carbonation levels of some beer styles not being suited to regular beer bottles. I certainly wouldn't be bottling a batch that required 4 volumes into regular beer bottles!
> 
> I agree too. If that's the case, then don't put them into Vicbrew that excludes entry in those bottles & just enjoy them yourself. Simple!
> Rant over.... <_<


----------



## Black n Tan

Vicbrew does a sterling job but I feel the introduction of the 'no champaign bottle' policy has been poorly thought through and implemented:

1/ Changes to Vicbrew rules such as this require adequate notice. This has not been provided with the first notice of this change being embedded in the fine print of the entry form that was uploaded to the Vicbrew website in the last few weeks. If this is to become policy then make it for Vicbrew 2016. Implementing this rule with no notice will only adversely affect our representation at the AABC 2015 which is a key aim of Vicbrew: this is taken form the website "To represent the interests of Victorian amateur brewers at the national level and to promote the Australian Amateur Brewing Championships (AABC) in Victoria."

2/ Some styles require high carbonation and plastic bottles are not really suitable (or necessarily safe at high carbonation). So have a no champagne bottle policy but exempt the certain categories ie. 15. Belgian Strong Ales. This would mean only one category could include champagne bottles and would still address the storage issues, allowing most crates to be stacked. Surely that is a reasonable compromise??


----------



## MartinOC

OK, I've tried being diplomatic, but now I'll be blunt:

The rule stands. No further correspondence will be entered-into on this subject.

Thank you for your consideration.


----------



## Yob

Black n Tan said:


> allowing most crates to be stacked. Surely that is a reasonable compromise??


only at the event itself, the people collecting them still have to be able to transport them which is also a PITA, if you're picking up from multiple venues and you have to shuffle bottles to different crates etc,.. well.. its shit..

PET can handle it..

Quote from Dr Google

Interestingly, the only time the cap failed was when they heat treated the
coke bottle beforehand, as shown in in these tests:
http://home.people.net.au/~aircommand/procedures.htm
Interestingly, in general, the larger the bottle, the lower the burst
pressure.
For example, while the standard 2 liter coke bottle with label burst at 168
psi, the standard 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 185 psi.
Also interesting was the more gas (less liquid), the higher the burst
pressure; for example, that same 1.25 liter coke bottle burst at 190 psi
when it contained significant air.
In their last reported test, a 2 liter PET bottle failed at a lower psi
than you'd expect (150 psi) after simulated use (held at 130 psi for 3
minutes). This test might indicate plastique fatigue occurs with repeated
high pressurization.
So, I'd say Coke's report that all their bottles can handle 150 psi seems
reasonable as the MOP (maximum operating pressure) for PETE bottles.
BTW, those numbers are all way higher than the "guesstimates" made here:
http://www.instructables.com/answers/how_much_psi_does_a_coke_bottle2l_hold/

From Dr Gizoogle
No thangs up in dis biatch found fo' Interestingly, tha only time tha cap failed was when they heat treated tha coke forty beforehand, as shown up in in these tests:, up in general, tha larger tha bottle, tha lower tha burst pressure. For example, while tha standard 2 lita coke forty wit label burst at 168 psi, tha standard 1.25 lita coke forty burst at 185 psi. Also bangin-ass was tha mo' gas (less liquid), tha higher tha burst pressure; fo' example, dat same 1.25 lita coke forty burst at 190 psi when it contained dope air. Shiiit, dis aint no joke. In they last reported test, a 2 lita PET forty failed at a lower psi than you'd expect (150 psi) afta simulated use (held at 130 psi fo' 3 minutes). This test might indicate plastique fatigue occurs wit repeated high pressurization. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. So, I'd say Cokez report dat all they bottlez can handle 150 psi seems reasonable as tha MOP (maximum operatin pressure) fo' PETE bottles. BTW, dem numbers is all way higher than tha "guesstimates" made here:


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Just a suggestion, not really further correspondence...

Given it is too late to change the rules for this year anyway perhaps the good Vicbrew folk could/should acknowledge the feedback and say "thanks for the input - well take it on board for next year"

And then perhaps next year the rules could state something like "champagne bottles only accepted where it is appropriate to style" or more specifically "champagne bottles only accepted for style no. x.x"

Then all the brews that are best suited to big tall champagne bottles could be put in the same crate/s and just stacked to the side.

AND...as an even wilder thought. given that Vicbrew's stated objective is ""To represent the interests of Victorian amateur brewers..." they could send out a post comp survey to all entrants to gauge what their "intersts" are and ask the question "how could we improve on Vicbrew"

But for now I would like to sit back and have a nice home brew and think how lucky I am to have the Vicbrew volunteers. Thanks to all and sundry for all the hard graft that goes into the comp.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Got my steward app in and trying to paid for my brew entry, I select 'pay for my entries' and it just says 'payment pending'. What happens next?
> 
> Should add from there all i cant seem to do is cancel payments and it goes back one step, weird?


Think I got missed in the midst of ze conundrum...


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Think I got missed in the midst of ze conundrum...


Sorry, I should've let you know I sent this issue to the Compmaster admin. to look at first thing this morning. Waiting on a reply (or there will be a response from one of them directly here).


----------



## Grainer

Martin ...Question...Sorry just for clarification
I entered a mead about 2 weeks ago it was in a mini "champagne like" bottle (thicker glass).. does it still qualify or do I need to pull it out and pick it up at VICBrew...or substitute it for another bottle??? I do not want the bottles being wasted as the mead was a VERY limited supply and over a year old in storage..

cheers


----------



## Black n Tan

Yob said:


> PET can handle it..


Not totally wed to glass. In fact until recently most of my beers were bottled in PET, but decided that for my aged beers that I would go with glass this time and it has come back to bite me in the arse. Obviously now I know champagne bottle won't be accepted I will bottle a portion of the next batch of my Belgian strong ale into some PET bottles. Might have to do a head to head comparison of the glass vs PET aged Belgian dark strong ale. 

You seem to be major proponent for PET bottles, PETBottleDealzAustralia?


----------



## Yob

I'm a supporter of not having exploding glass on the property.. 

Gave away my capper to a mate for his cider the other day, I rekon if I want to age some, growlers are the go

I should add, never had one of my own explode, only other people's bottles


----------



## Grainer

I must admit from a safety point of view i sorta agree with yob even tho i bottle in glass. .. but starting to look at pet..Only brews ever exploded in my shed are from other people.. food for though for the competition organisers i guess.. its all a risk management approach..


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> Martin ...Question...Sorry just for clarification
> I entered a mead about 2 weeks ago it was in a mini "champagne like" bottle (thicker glass).. does it still qualify or do I need to pull it out and pick it up at VICBrew...or substitute it for another bottle??? I do not want the bottles being wasted as the mead was a VERY limited supply and over a year old in storage..
> 
> cheers


OK, this is a different matter & I'll expand for clarification:

The reason for excluding 750+ml champagne bottles is because they are invariably "over-sized" for the crates we use for storing/stacking entries & creates a logistic & organisational PITA, as they have to be stored & sourced separately from everything else. This is not an exclusion of the "type" of bottles per-se.

As long as your "mini" is a single-bottle entry & minimum 500ml, I'm guessing it'll probably fit into our crates. It fits the entry rules & will be accepted. If it doesn't fit in our crates because I'm guessing wrong about it's dimensions, then I'll give you my personal undertaking to deal with it for you. Fair enough?


----------



## Grainer

Thank you.. That helps .. Entry stands as entered .. Now fingers crossed.. Just hope I get to taste the mead. As I have never tasted it before...is it allowed to talk to the head steward to put some if the leftovers of the entry aside once it has been judged? It has been so long since I made it and I only had 6 bottles...


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> Thank you.. That helps .. Entry stands as entered .. Now fingers crossed.. Just hope I get to taste the mead. As I have never tasted it before...is it allowed to talk to the head steward to put some if the leftovers of the entry aside once it has been judged? It has been so long since I made it and I only had 6 bottles...


No problems, mate. This stuff is a fine juggling act, but common sense must prevail....

When are you stewarding? From memory, it's Sunday when the meads are likely to come out, so if you want, I can allocate you the stewarding job for the category & you can keep an eye on the jug (& do a "QA-test" before it goes to the judges....one of the "perks" of Stewarding......  ). 

Edit: You can talk to me about anything you like, but I'd prefer not to have D&M's with you about that rash...... :blink:


----------



## Grainer

I asked cause I am not stewarding... I am judging.. Not sure about etiquette etc...not sure which category yet.. I asked for farmhouse tho.. Love sours ATM


----------



## Yob

cant judge your own entry, someone needs to sub when your entry comes out if you are judging that flight.. best to judge another cat.


----------



## MartinOC

OK, I'll sort it out with you via PM's & on the day. I've got that much on my plate ATM, I'm likely to forget....


----------



## Grainer

I'm NOT judging that category


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

MartinOC said:


> Sorry, I should've let you know I sent this issue to the Compmaster admin. to look at first thing this morning. Waiting on a reply (or there will be a response from one of them directly here).


Hey Martin haven't heard back yet, was hoping to drop my beer off tomorrow to GBHB, but my entry is not paid for and finalised, I assume we get a barcode to print and stick onto the bottle as well is that correct?


----------



## MartinOC

I've just chased it up again for you directly with AndyD.


----------



## Andyd

Grainer said:


> Compmaster changed so all my entries have no descriptions.. just on the bottles.. but the last beer i put in late has compmaster descriptions.


Every competition can define its own entry form... the extra questions didnt get copied across from last year's entry form.

If anyone feels they want that information added on their entry, just PM me the entry number and vital stats and I'mm get them put in.

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## Andyd

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Got my steward app in and trying to paid for my brew entry, I select 'pay for my entries' and it just says 'payment pending'. What happens next?
> 
> Should add from there all i cant seem to do is cancel payments and it goes back one step, weird?


Could you PM me your username and entry number so I can check this out for yoyu?

Thanks

Andy


----------



## Andyd

Andy_Chil said:


> I used Comp Master about four weeks ago to enter and was not prompted for any OG FG yeast etc. do I need to do anything about this prior to dropping off my bottles next week?


Shoot me a PM with entry number and vital stats and I'll add them in there manually for you.

Andy


----------



## Andyd

A couple of people have found themselves stuck in the payment process this time around. If you see "payments pending" in your "myEntries" screen, you can reset the payment process by clicking on the "clear pending payments" link at the bottom of the screen. This will let you start it over again.

Feel free to drop me a PM if anyone has hassles!

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## Andyd

For anyone trying to get onto compmaster at the moment we appear to have a denial of service attack hitting the hosting servers. I'll let you know once it's under control again.

Andy


----------



## Blind Dog

Andyd said:


> For anyone trying to get onto compmaster at the moment we appear to have a denial of service attack hitting the hosting servers. I'll let you know once it's under control again.
> 
> Andy


Bet its the buggers from NSW!

Being a completely organised person I just logged on to submit my entries. Feel like swearign and cant even down a few as I'll be too far away from sobriety to actually get the entries in...

I'm assuming cash in an envelope for the paper entries is OK? Haven't had a cheque book for years


----------



## MartinOC

Yep, no problems. As long as you get your entry (with the dosh in an envelope attached) to one of the drop-offs before COB tomorrow, it's all good.

Actually, now I remember to do this.....

ENTRIES CLOSE TOMORROW & *MUST* BE LEFT AT ONE OF THE DROP-OFF POINTS BY COB TOMORROW 12/9/15.


----------



## Blind Dog

Thanks - and thanks also to yourself and everyone else involved for putting their time into this. Looking forward to meeting a few of you on the Sunday


----------



## Dips Me Lid

Got my beer dropped off at Brewers Choice Woori Yallock this arvo, looking forward to the comp, cheers!


----------



## MartinOC

Blind Dog said:


> Thanks - and thanks also to yourself and everyone else involved for putting their time into this. Looking forward to meeting a few of you on the Sunday


Thanks for your thanks! It's a year-long team effort by a hard-core. It's coming to the boil now.....

My Protege (Galbrew) will be running the show on the Sunday, but I'll be hovering. Make sure you come & introduce yourself (I'm the shy, retiring wallflower in the irridescent pink Tu-Tu..... :huh: ).


----------



## peekaboo_jones

6 dropped off to The Brewer's Den Boronia!


----------



## Blind Dog

MartinOC said:


> (I'm the shy, retiring wallflower in the irridescent pink Tu-Tu..... :huh: ).


What shade? I do t want to clash


----------



## MartinOC

Blind Dog said:


> What shade? I do t want to clash


Oh, Sweetie, don't worry! Whatever you wear will be fine..... :beerbang:


----------



## timmi9191

is there a schedule for mildy interested on lookers?


----------



## MartinOC

timmi9191 said:


> is there a schedule for mildy interested on lookers?


Turn-up, introduce yourself, get a glass & drink beer.

As long as you don't get in the way of proceedings, you're most welcome to attend.

For the uninitiated, it's probably a bit like watching paint dry (definitely not an action-packed spectator-sport).


----------



## Andyd

We're back up and runnign again folks... sorry for the inconvenience. It was a mob from Russia based on the IP address. 

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## timmi9191

MartinOC said:


> Turn-up, introduce yourself, get a glass & drink beer.
> 
> As long as you don't get in the way of proceedings, you're most welcome to attend.
> 
> For the uninitiated, it's probably a bit like watching paint dry (definitely not an action-packed spectator-sport).


cheers.. ive got 10 entries, so mildy interested, very intrigued..


----------



## manticle

Do you like bald heads and the sight of nerds who have them squinting into the light while trying to discern gold from straw?

In for a treat then.


----------



## timmi9191

im bald and i squint..

sounds like ill fit fit in.


----------



## manticle

Get on the judging table mate. Vicbrew needs more balding nerdy squinters. Since I'm no longer available there's a spot open.


----------



## timmi9191

hence my interest my friend


----------



## manticle

Jump in and do it. If you can taste beer, think about what you're tasting and translate that articulately (and legibly) to the written word then you're doing better than mos......I mean doing very well.
Vicbrew needs you.


----------



## MartinOC

Would Manticle & timi9191 PLEASE get a room!!

BTW, this is perfect:



manticle said:


> Jump in and *DO IT!* If you can *taste* beer, *think* about what you're tasting and *translate *that articulately (and legibly) *to the written word* then you're doing better than most......I mean doing *VERY *well.
> Vicbrew needs you.


....I just added a bit of poetic licence....


----------



## citizensnips

Unfortunately I've been working all week and today and can't drop them off by 1pm at grain and grape! Is there any where or way I can deliver them later todat, Sunday or Monday??


----------



## MartinOC

citizensnips said:


> Unfortunately I've been working all week and today and can't drop them off by 1pm at grain and grape! Is there any where or way I can deliver them later todat, Sunday or Monday??


Shoot me a PM with your location & I'll see if I can arrange something with/for you.


----------



## Grainer

Andyd said:


> We're back up and runnign again folks... sorry for the inconvenience. It was a mob from Russia based on the IP address.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andy


Any chance you can add a function to edit your entries.. when I put mine in i couldnt put in the gravities or details.. but now they are there!

Thx


----------



## mudd

Grainer said:


> Any chance you can add a function to edit your entries.. when I put mine in i couldnt put in the gravities or details.. but now they are there!
> 
> Thx


pm AndyD he has offered to add details to entries as required.


----------



## Andyd

I'm doing a major revision to CompMaster at the moment to fix a few issues with my current hosting and add some new capabilities. Editing entries is at the top of the new features list...


----------



## brianvcskin

I entered one of my beers as an imperial stout but my gravities are a tad low for style is this now a useless entry or will it get moved to foreign extra stout


----------



## MartinOC

Shoot AndyD a PM with the details. I'm sure he can shuffle it around for you.


----------



## buckerooni

a potential drama, due to the site being down on Friday I couldn't enter/print labels. dropped them off at G&G late friday and then retrospectively entered via compmaster adding the bottle cap IDs I used - but no compmaster labels. will this be enough for the comp?! Entered the Ape Attack APA and Eye Gouge IPA. cheers!


----------



## MartinOC

Buckerooni, PM me the Compmaster entry numbers & the corresponding bottle cap ID's you used (& any other info/bottle-markings etc.) & I'll see if I can match things up & inform the bloke that picked up the *OTHER 231* entries from G&G on Saturday........ :angry:


----------



## Grainer

MartinOC said:


> Buckerooni, PM me the Compmaster entry numbers & the corresponding bottle cap ID's you used (& any other info/bottle-markings etc.) & I'll see if I can match things up & inform the bloke that picked up the *OTHER 231* entries from G&G on Saturday........ :angry:


Hopefully its a bumper one for you guys with Merry Mashers and the Northerns etc..


----------



## GrumpyPaul

> the *OTHER 231* entries from G&G on Saturday........ :angry:


WOW - 231 from just one drop off point - that's close to half of last years total entries. Its going to be a big comp if the other drop offs had similar numbers.

Any idea on how the number of entries is comparing to previous years


----------



## Grainer

When is judging being announced? Just gotta sort out timetable etc.. cheers


----------



## MartinOC

Numbers yet to be finalised. Probably tonight or tomorrow.

Once that's done, the judging schedule will be published. Judges are required to rock-up at 8.30am & Stewards at 8.15 (for setup & preliminary briefing) each day.


----------



## worthogs webmaster

Glenn's confirmed for Sunday if you want him.


----------



## MartinOC

Ooh yeah, baby!!

Judging or Stewarding?


----------



## worthogs webmaster

Sorry, didn't get a notification! I think whatever you require he's up for. I'll be driving him in.


----------



## Spiesy

Hey everyone, is there a Twitter feed or anything for results? If not, when do results get published, or made available?


----------



## Yob

Probably after the comp is held...

This year it will be held on the 26th and 27th of September at the Belgian Beer Cafe Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne, Melway 2F E7. This is a BJCP sanctioned and registered competition, and all judges are welcome.


----------



## Spiesy

Yob said:


> Probably after the comp is held...
> 
> This year it will be held on the 26th and 27th of September at the Belgian Beer Cafe Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne, Melway 2F E7. This is a BJCP sanctioned and registered competition, and all judges are welcome.


Aah, my bad, I thought it was this weekend for some reason.


----------



## DU99

Least it's not GF weekend


----------



## GrumpyPaul

So I had a cunning plan last night when I realised that the venue for Vicbrew is at the bottom of the Eureka Tower.

You see MrsGrumpy has been talking about going to the Eureka Skydeck for ages. So I say to her last night.

"Hey why don't we go to the Eureka Skydeck this weekend", "Ok" she says.
"Oh and while we're there. How's this for a coincidence - that brewing comp I entered is on just below it. We could drop in there and check it out"

tee hee....cunning plan worked.

Will see you all there at some point over the weekend.


----------



## DU99

:icon_offtopic: you also stroll to southbank and visit hophaus


----------



## Curly79

DU99 said:


> :icon_offtopic: you also stroll to southbank and visit hophaus


Looks good DU. Do you recommend? We are going to the Storm v Cowboys game Saturday night and we're going to go to the German brauhouse in south warf before, but that would be much closer.


----------



## DU99

:icon_offtopic: Certainly recommend had my retirement lunch there (30 people)
see tripadvisor


----------



## MartinOC

We're coming to the boil now gents....

FYI, we have a total of 575 entries to get through - gonna be a busy weekend!!!

Judge allocation & further info. should be going out today.


----------



## GalBrew

MartinOC said:


> FYI, we have a total of 575 entries to get through - gonna be a busy weekend!!!


[email protected] me, that's a few. Busy is right!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

> FYI, we have a total of 575 entries to get through - gonna be a busy weekend!!!


575 entries - that's an awesome number of entries.

Clearly an increase on previous years a far as entries but what about the number of brewers?

Is it the same number of us just entering more entries? (I had 3 last year 7 this year)

Or are there more brewers in the game?

Martin _ I think you need to do another t-shirt run

"Victoria - the real home of home brewing"


----------



## MartinOC

I don't have access to the total number of brewers entering right now, but I'd guess it's up on previous years.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Ive never entered and have this year, cant speak for others but there seems to be plenty noobs about like myself


----------



## Toper

Saturday steward,excellent :drinks:


----------



## manticle

If you are a competitor, interested onlooker or new steward, please consider putting your hand up for judging.

Don't be put off if you've never done it before - you'll likely be partnered with others of experience but all you really need is a palate and a hand (to hold a glass and to write). If you can review commercial or home brewed heer, you can judge.
Every year vicbrew (one of the biggest national comps) struggle for judges but the number of entries grows.

They need competitors and beer people to offer half a day to a day to taste and reflect.

You get free lunch usually - I presume it's the same this year. My first ever judging stint was at vicbrew and it was a great experience. Don't hesitate because without assistance, the comp can't run and it can't run well.

I live interstate these days so I can't help but I encourage anyone even considering to jump in.


----------



## MartinOC

Thanks, Manticle!

We've Juuust......got enough judges to handle the numbers this year, but I can see the need for more in coming years. The committee is working on that...

I've said it many times - becoming a judge will make you a better brewer.

Stewards is another (personal) issue. We've got a glut on Saturday & a dearth on Sunday. Lunches are also provided for Stewards, so if you want to rock-up & help out (did I forget to mention free beer??  ), you'll be most welcome.


----------



## Blind Dog

MartinOC said:


> & a dearth on Sunday


Of the Vader variety?


----------



## MartinOC

Blind Dog said:


> Of the Vader variety?


Come over the Dark-Side & become a Steward. Together we can rule the Galaxy!

Edit: You're a bloody twillop! Go read the OED!


----------



## GalBrew

Yes many categories are scheduled to carry over to the Sunday this year, so don't think you will miss out on the 'interesting' stuff. Remember, stewards get to taste the comp beers and the Sunday has plenty on offer including the specialties....always interesting!


----------



## NealK

I'm down for Sunday afternoon but, having seen how few stewards there are for Sunday, I will try to get there as early as I can. Looking forward to it!


----------



## MartinOC

Attaboy!!!!


----------



## worthogs webmaster

By the way, we have the Barney, will be bringing it on Sunday unless someone wants to collect it earlier.


----------



## DU99

Anything we have to bring(stewards)


----------



## MartinOC

worthogs webmaster said:


> By the way, we have the Barney, will be bringing it on Sunday unless someone wants to collect it earlier.


Sunday bringing will be fine. It all happens at the end, so as long as it's there for the results it's all good.



DU99 said:


> Anything we have to bring(stewards)


Just a strong work-ethic & a sense of humour. We'll provide the rest..


----------



## GalBrew

Just to give you all an idea, here are all the entries that we have to sort.


----------



## DU99

That's alot a beer...


----------



## GalBrew

There is actually a little more out of shot to the right.


----------



## GalBrew

And another shot. Now it all has to go In the cool room!


----------



## coopsomulous

Vicbrew will be the second comp I have entered and my first time as a steward. Looking forward to seeing how it all runs and will definitely be putting my hand up as a judge in the future.


----------



## Mardoo

GalBrew said:


> Just to give you all an idea, here are all the entries that we have to sort.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1443144939.446131.jpg


Is that JarJar Binks in front of the other two guys?


----------



## Grainer

Beers all round!


----------



## GalBrew

Mardoo said:


> Is that JarJar Binks in front of the other two guys?


Someone was moving around when I took the panorama, but yes Jar Jar like.


----------



## dannymars

Hopefully no one has to taste any koala Scat beers


----------



## MartinOC

Amendment to the previously-amended amendment:

After doing the sorting etc. today & despite a few drop-outs/no-shows, we have a total of *590* entries this year. FAAAARK!!!!

Over a beer or two during lunch, the committee agreed to deal with the ever-increasing number of entries in one way or another, so expect restrictions to apply next year.

We just can't deal with these numbers without the judges & stewards to handle them on a single weekend.....HINT!!


----------



## Yob

Short on judges or stewards or both?

Epic number of entries..


----------



## MartinOC

BOTH!

Epic is right, mate! It goes up every year. Critical mass is approaching...

Going to bed now. Need to sleep in order to be my utmost, bestest Martinet tomorrow..... h34r:


----------



## manticle

Good luck.


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> BOTH!
> 
> Epic is right, mate! It goes up every year. Critical mass is approaching...
> 
> Going to bed now. Need to sleep in order to be my utmost, bestest Martinet tomorrow..... h34r:


Shit eh!!

Sorry man, I'm usually on board but just not possible this year.


----------



## GalBrew

Critical mass is right......


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Jeepers!


----------



## GalBrew

Well folks, day 1 of judging has kicked off. We are well busy with a record number of entries and most categories stretching over 2 days!


----------



## Yob

How many judging tables?


----------



## GalBrew

13 at the moment. More coming on after lunch.


----------



## Mardoo

Pretty sure we have 12 categories going at the moment, with at least one to start up this arvo with three tables at once.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Just dropped by to check on proceedings...
Hats off to everyone there, doing a great job. It's a big job to get through all those. As an outsider looking on it looks like a well oiled machine.
Did my civic duty, donned the rubber gloves and did an hour(ish) of glass and jug washing.
BIG thanks to all involved


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Epic- thats my summary. Stellar effort to Martin as head steward. Thoroughlly enjoyed it even if the first half was a blur of glasses and jug washing/chilling/ice gathering. See you all next year!


----------



## mofox1

You guys are alright, y'know.


----------



## DU99

(GP)Your's was the only one whose hand's that fitted the gloves..Hat's off to vicbrew organisers will done guy's.


----------



## GalBrew

One more day to go!


----------



## Mardoo

What a deliciously awesome good time. Hope tomorrow goes insanely well.


----------



## Yob

You doing tmoz as well Mardoo? 

I have it on reasonable authority specialty is a tough contest with some high scoring bevies (mid to high 40's)

Spewin to have missed this epic category...


----------



## DU99

Yob there was some good stuff had also today.


----------



## MartinOC

Tough competition indeed...One of the meads scored a 50. Beat THAT!!!

The Specialties have been of a very high standard (El-Presidente of the Vicbrew Committee has been judging them, so I don't doubt it).

Other than that, I've been running-around like a blue-arsed fly, trying to appease (or avoid :blink: ) everyone who wants a piece of me today (& failing horribly at that..).

Hopefully, tomorrow will be a bit more cruisy (perhaps an exercise in purest optimism on my part, but there you have it....)

Right now, I'm absolutely, totally, utterly shagged!!!!

And we have another day to go.........


----------



## idzy

MartinOC said:


> Tough competition indeed...One of the meads scored a 50. Beat THAT!!!
> 
> The Specialties have been of a very high standard (El-Presidente of the Vicbrew Committee has been judging them, so I don't doubt it).
> 
> Other than that, I've been running-around like a blue-arsed fly, trying to appease (or avoid :blink: ) everyone who wants a piece of me today (& failing horribly at that..).
> 
> Hopefully, tomorrow will be a bit more cruisy (perhaps an exercise in purest optimism on my part, but there you have it....)
> 
> Right now, I'm absolutely, totally, utterly shagged!!!!
> 
> And we have another day to go.........


Well done and thanks again for a fantastic day Martin. Hope tomorrow goes as smoothly for you guys!


----------



## Spiesy

Hey guys, massive thank you to all who are involved with Vicbrew - I am hoping to help out next year.

I know it's still under way, and it's a big event, but any idea when results will start to trickle through on Compmaster (or anywhere else)?
Anxious to see how I've gone.


----------



## Wolfman

Beware of the Baltic chili Porter! It hot hot hot!


----------



## Yob

Spiesy said:


> Hey guys, massive thank you to all who are involved with Vicbrew - I am hoping to help out next year.
> 
> I know it's still under way, and it's a big event, but any idea when results will start to trickle through on Compmaster (or anywhere else)?
> Anxious to see how I've gone.


Some cat's ate split over both days so I wouldn't expect to see results till tonight/tmoz sometime


----------



## PaleRider

Anyone else's entries not showing up on compmaster?


----------



## Mardoo

Not done yet mate.


----------



## Yob

Results wont be posted until after the comp has finished up and then + some time for clean-up etc,


----------



## GalBrew

Don't hold your breath.....


----------



## Black n Tan

Wolfman said:


> Beware of the Baltic chili Porter! It hot hot hot![/quote
> 
> Mate that was ridiculously hot.


----------



## Mardoo

Big thanks to the organisers and volunteers who bust their nuts every year to make this happen. An astonishing amount of work goes into it from what I could see on this, my first year. Thanks for the chance to participate. It's a great thing y'all do.


----------



## DU99

mardoo..nice to meet yah..


----------



## fcmcg

I'm guilty of being a club member , always entering but not showing up to help...
Child one is now 4 and child two is now 20 months...next year I'm in


----------



## Mardoo

DU99 said:


> mardoo..nice to meet yah..


You too mate. I have a feeling we could get up to some mischief.


----------



## Yob

All wrapped up?


----------



## Grainer

Congratulations westgate for the big haul.


----------



## Yob

Details man!!!


----------



## fcmcg

Westgate club of show
Lead by Black and Tan ...who is brewer of show.


----------



## Yob

Well done boys... 

Been a good year for westgate


----------



## Mardoo

Well done Black n' Tan! Zero surprise there.


----------



## mxd

Well done westgate, and thanks to Alll Volunteers it's amazing the a,out of work you've put in.


----------



## fcmcg

Did Grainer's wife win anything ?


----------



## worthogs webmaster

Great work guys, nice to see the Barney presented by Maddy and Beth. Sorry about my feral children.


----------



## Black n Tan

Very happy with the win and for Westgate to take out the Barney.  It is a great day but we need more volunteers to keep things going. I am sure the organiser appreciate the thanks, but appreciate judges and stewards more.



worthogs webmaster said:


> Great work guys, nice to see the Barney presented by Maddy and Beth. Sorry about my feral children.


We did open a couple of beers on the Barney as a mark of respect.


----------



## Grainer

Always 1 dik head in the crowd


----------



## Wolfman

Grainer said:


> Always 1 dik head in the crowd


Is that you?


----------



## fcmcg

Come on grainer..your never going to live it down...so you might as well laugh about it


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Any other results yet?


----------



## Spiesy

fergthebrewer said:


> Come on grainer..your never going to live it down...so you might as well laugh about it


Do tell.


----------



## MartinOC

fergthebrewer said:


> Did Grainer's wife win anything ?


Back off.

PM me.


----------



## Charst

Hahaha Stirling Decorum.


----------



## 2much2spend

Do vicbrew have a Twitter acc?


----------



## GalBrew

2much2spend said:


> Do vicbrew have a Twitter acc?


Not currently.


----------



## MartinOC

Geez! We could've done with a LOT more stewards first-up this morning, but we eventually got through it. No thanks at all to the people who think that Vicbrew just "happens" without a HUGE input from a lot of people. 

5 stewards to cover 11 tables. That's just totally fucked!

I'm NOT a happy camper right now & you blokes that entered need to think about what service you get for your $8. 

We need people to contribute their time.


----------



## fcmcg

Sorry grainer ...
Sorry martin....
Ferg now removed himself to the corner


----------



## 2much2spend

MartinOC said:


> Geez! We could've done with a LOT more stewards first-up this morning, but we eventually got through it. No thanks at all to the people who think that Vicbrew just "happens" without a HUGE input from a lot of people.
> 
> 5 stewards to cover 11 tables. That's just totally fucked!
> 
> I'm NOT a happy camper right now & you blokes that entered need to think about what service you get for your $8.
> 
> We need people to contribute their time.


. 
Maybe something can be put on the entry form to see if folks want to help out or a discount on entry price?

Just a thought


----------



## GalBrew

MartinOC said:


> Geez! We could've done with a LOT more stewards first-up this morning, but we eventually got through it. No thanks at all to the people who think that Vicbrew just "happens" without a HUGE input from a lot of people.
> 
> 5 stewards to cover 11 tables. That's just totally fucked!
> 
> I'm NOT a happy camper right now & you blokes that entered need to think about what service you get for your $8.
> 
> We need people to contribute their time.


Totally fucked is right. Biggest Vicbrew ever and only 5 people turned up to steward at today's start. Something has to change or something has to give. It's up to you homebrewers out there what sort of Vicbrew comp you want, but we can't keep growing at the current rate without a similar increase in our volunteer base. Read into that how you will.


----------



## GalBrew

Also keep in mind we need more judges......but that's another story.

A special thanks also needs to go out to the guys that turned up this morning and held it all together so the comp could run as well as it did. You all deserve a beer!


----------



## manticle

2much2spend said:


> .
> Maybe something can be put on the entry form to see if folks want to help out or a discount on entry price?
> Just a thought


I can't see a discount on a fee that is currently under $10 encouraging people to step up, especially considering all volunteers get free lunch.

Just do it - the incentive is that you want the comp to be sustainable and continue into the future. 1 day out of the year can ensure this.

If 10 people who have never done it (vicbrew) before put their hand up to steward or judge the next one, I'll fly back from Hobart to judge in 2016.

Put your name here.

1. 
2.
3
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


----------



## worthogs webmaster

Next year, if I can organise babysitting, I'll help out. We definitely want to show our support in practical ways.


----------



## MartinOC

manticle said:


> I'll fly back from Hobart to judge in 2016.


THAT's the kind of commitment I'm looking-for!


----------



## Yob

When will the results be posted?


----------



## Wolfman

Yer when?


----------



## Blind Dog

Thanks gents and ladies for a great day. We may have been few in number, but this (bar)steward had a ball.

Personally, I reckon you put an entry limit on vicbrew 2016 (the 'free' limit for everyone) then if you volunteer to judge or steward or otherwise help out, you get extra, but you have to nominate your 'free' entries so if you don't turn up to help out, only your 'free' entries get counted. People who've helped out in the,say, previous 2 years also get extra entries

Might have had a few too many tasters...


----------



## [email protected]_dan

manticle said:


> I can't see a discount on a fee that is currently under $10 encouraging people to step up, especially considering all volunteers get free lunch.
> 
> Just do it - the incentive is that you want the comp to be sustainable and continue into the future. 1 day out of the year can ensure this.
> 
> If 10 people who have never done it (vicbrew) before put their hand up to steward or judge the next one, I'll fly back from Hobart to judge in 2016.
> 
> Put your name here.
> 
> 1. Dan (unless someone else wants #1..)
> 2.
> 3
> 4.
> 5.
> 6.
> 7.
> 8.
> 9.
> 10.


Count me in. A big thank you Martin for the opportunityand to the guys to sit amoungst and gain some valuable experience Saturday arvo. Unsure about correctness about naming names... A bigger thanks for everyone envolved with the event. I would have loved to have been there today but in the throws of preparing a house for sale...yes there is another excuse...

Appreciate feedback and advice on how to gain judging experience, and as you can see am an absolute newby to the forum.

Cheers, and hope everyone is enjoying a refreshing brew this evening. Dan.


----------



## Dippet

I know a good few Brewers and venue managers who were judges today. Anyway to arrange a loyalty/perk system that would give stewards discounts to their venues as a thank you? 

While a free lunch is great don't forget that for 16-20 hours over a weekend these people are giving up their time for not a lot of gain. There is not a lot of incentive to come back if you've been pumped on day 1 and you're not getting paid


Just a thought.


----------



## Mardoo

The way I see it you make your entries, you do your service. $8 is SFA for an entry fee. Paying people? There were about 60 people involved in running Saturday's comp alone. You're looking at a $50 entry fee if folks are getting paid to mount the comp.

Blind Dog's idea is interesting, or maybe just a strict three-entry limit per person. Or there could be regionals and only the top three pass to Vicbrew as with nationals here, but who's going to do the work on that one? Some of the big US competitions have a lottery for entry. There are a lot of possibilities, and I suspect a lot will be decided over the next couple months.

Might be time for a fact-finding mission to something like this. It's only going to get bigger here, and as I understand it there were nearly 1/3 more entries to Vicbrew this year than last year.


----------



## Spiesy

Okay, I'm a little miffed. 

There were around 600 entries and $8 each, right? That's almost $5k raised. Prizes are all donated by sponsors. Are the lunches not donated by the venue sponsor, or at least heavily subsidised?

I'm sorry, but I paid to enter the comp, like everyone else. Maybe I'm dumb, but when entering I didn't realise that this was purely a not-for-profit volunteer event. I'm not trying to rattle the cage, and appreciate the work people have put in, but I'm a little puzzled by some of Martin's comments. 

Hoping to help out next year, regardless. Maybe Melbourne clubs could be encouraged to submit X amount of volunteers.


----------



## Pogierob

Not having the full picture of what happened it is obviously hard to base an accurate opinion on what happened, however if there was 200 odd more entries than expected, stewards that didn't show up and an all round general shortage, I don't believe the answer is getting on here and growling at everyone who entered a beer in the competition.

There are quite a few clubs in Melbourne, perhaps a possible solution would be to discuss with the committee of each club to possibility of each club being the stewards on a year by year rotation (as well as any volunteers outside of that).

I don't think refunding or offering discounts is the option as $8 isn't really that much and it is worth it to cover expenses of the comp, you get valuable feedback for that money on your beer also.

There are also outside factors that could be causing an issue, for example, this was right in the middle of school holidays, it's pretty hard for some to convince the family that the holiday "down the coast" needs to be cut short by a few days so daddy can go to a beer event.

600 entries is massive, it would take a lot to organise and sort, Great job to those who did it tough on the weekend


----------



## worthogs webmaster

If you wanted the Worthogs to run it, it would be a disaster. We only have around twenty members, and about five or six who actively participate in events. We clubs have to band together to support each other and VicBrew.


----------



## Curly79

Anyhow. Getting back to the petition to make manticle fly back to the mainland next year. 
Put your name here.

1. Dan
2.Curly 79
3
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


----------



## manticle

Spiesy said:


> Okay, I'm a little miffed.
> There were around 600 entries and $8 each, right? That's almost $5k raised. Prizes are all donated by sponsors. Are the lunches not donated by the venue sponsor, or at least heavily subsidised?
> I'm sorry, but I paid to enter the comp, like everyone else. Maybe I'm dumb, but when entering I didn't realise that this was purely a not-for-profit volunteer event. I'm not trying to rattle the cage, and appreciate the work people have put in, but I'm a little puzzled by some of Martin's comments.
> Hoping to help out next year, regardless. Maybe Melbourne clubs could be encouraged to submit X amount of volunteers.


It's a not for profit event staffed by volunteers.

Clubs are encouraged to submit volunteers. There just aren't enough of them.


----------



## GalBrew

Spiesy said:


> Okay, I'm a little miffed.
> 
> There were around 600 entries and $8 each, right? That's almost $5k raised. Prizes are all donated by sponsors. Are the lunches not donated by the venue sponsor, or at least heavily subsidised?
> 
> I'm sorry, but I paid to enter the comp, like everyone else. Maybe I'm dumb, but when entering I didn't realise that this was purely a not-for-profit volunteer event. I'm not trying to rattle the cage, and appreciate the work people have put in, but I'm a little puzzled by some of Martin's comments.
> 
> Hoping to help out next year, regardless. Maybe Melbourne clubs could be encouraged to submit X amount of volunteers.


You do realise that the venue costs quite a bit of cash to hire for the weekend right? Where exactly do you think the money goes to?


----------



## Wolfman

One of our members was told he wasn't required?

An when are we going to find out who won everything?


----------



## GalBrew

And if people don't want to volunteer well that's also fine. I can tell you it is a tough 3 days to put on the event. I'm totally stuffed and I also didn't see my kid for 2 days. But if more people do t volunteer don't expect to be able to enter unlimited entries in 2016. 

Nothing has been decided yet, but rest assured that something will


----------



## manticle

Dippet said:


> While a free lunch is great don't forget that for 16-20 hours over a weekend these people are giving up their time for not a lot of gain. There is not a lot of incentive to come back if you've been pumped on day 1 and you're not getting paid
> Just a thought.


16-20 hours? Some people might but there's certainly no expectation of anything close to that. Both judges and stewards can elect which of the two days they are able to offer and if you are only able to do part of one day, that can still be a big help. Stewards change over all the time and some categories are much smaller and take less than half a day. More common average would be 4-6.

I'm certainly not having a go at anyone and absolutely understand people have other commitments. From me, it's a suggestion/reach out to those that have not previously been involved to consider putting their hand up for next year.

@spiesy - community sports clubs, brewing clubs etc are run by committee members, etc who are volunteers. They take membership fees but still rely on those volunteers to be able to run.


----------



## Spiesy

GalBrew said:


> You do realise that the venue costs quite a bit of cash to hire for the weekend right? Where exactly do you think the money goes to?


No, I didn't realise that. I have no idea where the money goes to.

Surely there are other options for a venue, if this is the case - I believe The Terminus doesn't charge Merri Mashers anything for use of their upstairs facilities. Perhaps a venue sponsor might be in order, rather forking out lots of cash for one... just an idea.


----------



## timmi9191

Any idea when the results will be published?


----------



## worthogs webmaster

I must say that there were a fair few brewing events on in Melbourne this weekend, which may be part of the problem in gathering enough volunteers.


----------



## 2much2spend

Look it's obvious something need to change, you cannot keep doing the same thing and wishing for a different result. 
How many entries are people who are on this forum? 
Not many! So how do novices find out to volunteer?
A tick box on the entry form?
And if the system cannot handle offering novice stewards a $5 entry for volunteering. The system is broke!

You have to adapt and change with the times folks

Just my 2c


----------



## Yob

timmi9191 said:


> Any idea when the results will be published?


Nothing on the vicbrew website, nothing on Compmaster. 

It's a bit piss poor that results can't be published at the conclusion of the event or at least on the same day.


----------



## GalBrew

Yob said:


> Nothing on the vicbrew website, nothing on Compmaster.
> 
> It's a bit piss poor that results can't be published at the conclusion of the event or at least on the same day.


We were lucky the judging was finished, forget about results.


----------



## krausenhaus

I know it was a tough day for those running the show, but given that winners were announced at the venue last night it would be nice for someone to spend 15 minutes at the keyboard to put up results for the rest of us to see.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Personally - I don't want to commit unless I can be sure I can follow through. Hence my feeble effort of dropping in and just saying "how can I help". Was happy to put my petite little man hands to good work in a sink of icy cold water for an hour or so.

I will happily weigh up my plans at the time and try to be more involved next year - but I struggle to plan a few weeks ahead let alone a full year.

As with most other people weekends are always a juggling act of spending time with family/loved ones and getting the obligatory chores done around the house etc.

So I get both sides of this argument - but I worry that this thread has the potential to cause more harm than good. With the good Vicbrew folks feeling a bit "F*ck you brewers why should I put in all this effort for you..." and then others in the homebrew community feeling a bit "F*ck you Vicbrew - don't go taking that tone with me..."

I think we should all settle back and as the saying goes "Relax and have a Homebrew" - Vicbrew did an awesome job this year running the comp, and Vic Brewers did an awesome job of brewing a record number of beers. Lets go smash those other states in the Nationals with our awesome brews.


----------



## Yob

GalBrew said:


> We were lucky the judging was finished, forget about results.


Im usually involved mate, have been for several years, I know the score, but Im also keen to get the results like many other entrants. The job isnt finished when the last glass is washed, its finished when the results are posted and people have their score sheets.


----------



## GalBrew

I know, but you weren't there yesterday, it did not start well with the lack of people. If we had to be out of the venue when we were originally told, judging for 2 categories would not have been completed. We were lucky the room was not booked for the evening or we would have been royally fucked. Also keep in mind that Compmaster has nothing to do with the stewards, so unfortunately for us once the last glass is washed and packed away we are done.


----------



## zeggie

I responded saying I was interested stewarding or judging, didn't hear anything. Mate didn't hear anything either.
I know someone else who got a confirmation but then apparently they weren't on the final list and told they weren't required.

Can't blame this all on the volunteers. Sounds like the organisation of the event may need to be looked at. Bit rough to just throw blame around here at us.


----------



## worthogs webmaster

It takes us a good couple of hours to sort out and put up results after Pale Ale Mania, an event that had around a tenth of the entries of VicBrew. People need time to unwind after these things. I'm sure they are furiously making every effort to ensure it's ready to publish.


----------



## timmi9191

Whatever did happen, didnt happen, could have happened, should have happened really is a matter for a debrief by the organising committee and doesnt need to be played out here, i dont think. 

As an entrant, Im not involved in the politics and have no desire to be, I just want to know the results.


----------



## GalBrew

timmi9191 said:


> As an entrant, Im not involved in the politics and have no desire to be, I just want to know the results.


And that right there is part of the problem. They'll be up when they are up.


----------



## Black n Tan

May be we should be all a bit more grateful for those that volunteer. Vicbrew would not happen without the volunteers and Martin and Galbrew worked like dogs. I stewarded on Sunday and it was tough due to a shortage of stewards. If you don't like the way something is done then volunteer and help make the change. I suspect the results have been delayed due to the event running over due to number of entries and a deft in volunteers. Even though the winners were announced yesterday, I believe there were a number of checks and clarifications needed before the results would be published. I know the wait is torture.


----------



## idzy

Must say that I really enjoyed being involved for the first time this year and highly recommend it! Overall the comp was run very well from my point of view and I only got to see what happened on Saturday. From running events myself in the past, I am sure countless hours went into this in the lead up and for many of us we don't see it and therefore difficult to appreciate.

Well done Vicbrew team and to all the volunteer stewards and judges on the weekend!


----------



## timmi9191

GalBrew said:


> And that right there is part of the problem. They'll be up when they are up.


Are you seriously suggesting that those that have entered a competition and want to know the results have somehow contributed to whatever problems were encountered in the running of the comp?


----------



## GalBrew

timmi9191 said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that those that have entered a competition and want to know the results have somehow contributed to whatever problems were encountered in the running of the comp?


Yes. If you enter a comp run by volunteers and have no interest in helping then yes are are not helping the comp run are you? We have had massive growth in entry numbers over the last 2 years but no increase in volunteers putting their hand up to do the thankless tasks required. So if you want your results a bit quicker then maybe it wouldn't hurt to get involved??


----------



## GrumpyPaul

GalBrew said:


> ...the thankless tasks required.


Said it before - will say again, and again....

THANK YOU


----------



## GalBrew

Cheers Paul. Thanks too for coming out. On the topic of results I am open to having a live Twitter/Facebook feed for the place getters as they are announced. But that won't give you the whole comp results any earlier.


----------



## timmi9191

GalBrew said:


> Yes. If you enter a comp run by volunteers and have no interest in helping then yes are are not helping the comp run are you? We have had massive growth in entry numbers over the last 2 years but no increase in volunteers putting their hand up to do the thankless tasks required. So if you want your results a bit quicker then maybe it wouldn't hurt to get involved??


Such a view astounds me.

We all know that the entry wasnt conditional on volunteering, so that speaks for itself, but to have such a blanket view without any consideration for what circumstances dont allow, prevent, hinder or otherwise effect an individual from actually volunteering or wanting to volunteer, in my view does nothing to promote the goodwill of those that do volunteer. 

Great effort to those running the show and kudos to those that volunteered but its wrong to blame, shame or lay guilt on any entrant for any difficulties in running the show because they didnt assist. From my experience, publicly guilting those that didnt volunteer is less likely to increase the level of participation next year than if you were to positively promote the benefits of assisting. As I was alluding to in my original post, thats a matter for a debrief of the organising committee.


----------



## GalBrew

My aim is not to shame people, but to point out the obvious that we need more help next year. Trying to put the word out as early as possible. Of course entry isn't conditional on entering. Plenty of volunteers don't even have beers entered. So if you would like to jump of your soap box for a minute and stop being a flog that would be great. The whole comp and every comp world wide is run purely on the goodwill of volunteers who give up their time for the benefit of homebrew. All it would take was for one or two people from the vicbrew committee to chuck it in and there would be no comp. if you would like to help out that's great, if not that's also fine. But don't not be interested in how it all unfolds, not be interested in helping and then whinge that your results are not given to you immediately. Anyway I am not going to comment any further today. Vicbrew is done and I am on my own time now.


----------



## zeggie

Well there was me and 2 others who put our hands up and didn't get any reply. I'm sure there was probably others.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

GalBrew said:


> My aim is not to shame people, but to point out the obvious that we need more help next year. Trying to put the word out as early as possible. Of course entry isn't conditional on entering. Plenty of volunteers don't even have beers entered. So if you would like to jump of your soap box for a minute and stop being a flog that would be great. The whole comp and every comp world wide is run purely on the goodwill of volunteers who give up their time for the benefit of homebrew. All it would take was for one or two people from the vicbrew committee to chuck it in and there would be no comp. if you would like to help out that's great, if not that's also fine. But don't not be interested in how it all unfolds, not be interested in helping and then whinge that your results are not given to you immediately. Anyway I am not going to comment any further today. Vicbrew is done and I am on my own time now.





zeggie said:


> Well there was me and 2 others who put our hands up and didn't get any reply. I'm sure there was probably others.



Yeah yeah ....you made your points earlier.

Now can we relax and have a home brew.

The only post I want to see as an update to this thread is one saying "results posted"


----------



## Black n Tan

zeggie said:


> Well there was me and 2 others who put our hands up and didn't get any reply. I'm sure there was probably others.


Did you offer to steward or judge? 

I know there were a good number of stewards on Saturday but not enough on Sunday.

For judges, preference was given to those that could judge a full day or both days. The reasoning being that all categories (except Strong Lagers) took at least a full day to judge and the want for consistency.


----------



## timmi9191

GalBrew said:


> So if you would like to jump of your soap box for a minute and stop being a flog that would be great.


being a flog...

+1 for inspiring me to want to volunteer next year, well done!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

timmi9191 said:


> Such a view astounds me.
> 
> We all know that the entry wasnt conditional on volunteering, so that speaks for itself, but to have such a blanket view without any consideration for what circumstances dont allow, prevent, hinder or otherwise effect an individual from actually volunteering or wanting to volunteer, in my view does nothing to promote the goodwill of those that do volunteer.
> 
> Great effort to those running the show and kudos to those that volunteered but its wrong to blame, shame or lay guilt on any entrant for any difficulties in running the show because they didnt assist. From my experience, publicly guilting those that didnt volunteer is less likely to increase the level of participation next year than if you were to positively promote the benefits of assisting. As I was alluding to in my original post, thats a matter for a debrief of the organising committee.





timmi9191 said:


> being a flog...
> 
> +1 for inspiring me to want to volunteer next year, well done!





GrumpyPaul said:


> Yeah yeah ....you made your points earlier.
> 
> Now can we relax and have a home brew.
> 
> The only post I want to see as an update to this thread is one saying "results posted"





edited for comic meme effect


----------



## Grainer

Hi,

Just finishing writing my Masters up and now it is time soon for more study..beer study.. Just wondering where people get their tainting kits from and some advice on study etc for the BJCP exam..haven't studied for it yet due to other commitments..

cheers


----------



## fcmcg

Grainer , ask black n tan..he got the westgate one and there was a choice of two suppliers
There is a Sebel one , I think


----------



## Black n Tan

There are two options: Aroxa and Sebel. We used the Aroxa kit (Uno kit plus acetaldehyde), but next time would probably use the Sebel ones (they have recently changed the kits to improve the shelf-life). You are best to run a taint session at the club level as they cost a couple of hundred dollar and each taint is intended for 1L of beer.


----------



## Dips Me Lid

Grainer, Aroxa kits are a good bet, I just got a couple ordered in for my club, they're not cheap though.


----------



## Grainer

Is a better option to obtain typical infected / problematic beers where these issues were identified from in the first instance?


----------



## manticle

Black n Tan said:


> There are two options: Aroxa and Sebel. We used the Aroxa kit (Uno kit plus acetaldehyde), but next time would probably use the Sebel ones (they have recently changed the kits to improve the shelf-life). You are best to run a taint session at the club level as they cost a couple of hundred dollar and each taint is intended for 1L of beer.



This is way off topic and I'm not sure how it ended up here but anyway - why the preference for siebel over aroxa?

I have used both and I think aroxa are easier to use, last way longer and from memory were actually cheaper.


----------



## manticle

Grainer - the good thing about the kits is that they are a known taint, as opposed to commercial beer that may not be or may be a combination of things. There are ways of doctoring beer to represent common taints - the BJCP website has hints from memory.


----------



## Black n Tan

manticle said:


> This is way off topic and I'm not sure how it ended up here but anyway - why the preference for siebel over aroxa?
> 
> I have used both and I think aroxa are easier to use, last way longer and from memory were actually cheaper.


We used the Aroxa kits and most participants had trouble picking up the diacetyl and acetaldehyde taints. Next time we will probably taint at both a low and high levels to allow for different thresholds. Because of this issue others in the club suggested we try the siebel kits: note that they have recently changed their kits to a more stable formulation with a longer shelf-life.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Patience is required, looking at last years thread the uploading of results process took 3 days after the event.


----------



## DU99

i did stewarding on saturday and section i did had 36 entries and had 3 sections,it was long day.without the guidance of the organising committee and the skills of the chief steward and the *volunteer*s behind the bar washing glasses/jugs,and decanting of the beers in jugs.this might not of happend.


----------



## Andyd

G'day all,

Mark H and I have been working hard last night and today to resolve some of the problems that were encountered over the weekend, given the unprecedented number of entries. We should have finalized results available tonight (I've just finished scanning the 1300 score sheets (about 8 hours work over the weekend because they didn't get scored during the event  ), and now need to fight my upload speeds to get a gig of images uploaded for y'all 

I haven't seen the whole thread (for reasons above), but the sentiment of needing additional assistance at the event is a really good one. Clearly the number of entries this year took it well beyond the capacity to run the event on current volunteer numbers. Nearly every category needed to run with 2 judges this year, and at times we had well below the number of stewards than required to make it all run smoothly.

There are a number of proposals on the table, and I'm sure we'll have a healthy discussion about some of these in coming weeks (in another thread  )

Sorry for the delay - back to the uploading for me 

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## Wolfman

Thanks for taking the time post comp on this Andy. 

Do you have the ability to just give out the summary details of who is first second and third in the categories? I think this may appease the people who won/placed and don't know yet. The full details and score sheets can and do take time as we all know. 

Btw I'm not expecting any of my entries to win but I know a few of our members won stuff and are waiting very patiently to find out who and what. 

Cheers


----------



## Andyd

At this point I want to wait until Mark H advises on the official result, because a couple of the announced results were invalidated (there were a couple of score sheets that were not entered that I found when scanning, and a couple of beers whose entry numbers were announced incorrectly to tables, resulting in extra or missing score sheets for entries).

We should have them sorted tonight.

Andy


----------



## Grainer

ouch.. good luck everyone


----------



## Andyd

A couple of points for folks commenting on delays/volunteers etc...

1) Yes, the record number of entries results in additional revenue, which is good, but doesn't come anywhere near being able to pay people to staff the event. Comparable competitions in other fields who do pay staff command entry fees of between $50 and $100 per entry to make this possible. I don't see that as being a viable option.

2) That money goes to:
a) Venue hire (I don't know how much it cost this year, but it's over $1K - yes, a venue sponsor is a good idea, and I'd be keen to hear from anyone who has a contact with enough venue space and a willingness to make it available for Friday through Sunday for free).
B) Entry fees for all Victorian entries into AABC.

3) The points about communication are all valid - I'm re-building CompMaster for a variety of reasons at the moment, and part of this will try to address competition communications.

4) Yes, we're a bit delayed in announcing results - there were complications experienced during the event, and we're working hard to make sure that the online announcements are absolutely correct.

Andy


----------



## timmi9191

thanks for the updates andy


----------



## Spiesy

Andyd said:


> At this point I want to wait until Mark H advises on the official result, because a couple of the announced results were invalidated (there were a couple of score sheets that were not entered that I found when scanning, and a couple of beers whose entry numbers were announced incorrectly to tables, resulting in extra or missing score sheets for entries).
> 
> We should have them sorted tonight.
> 
> Andy


Cool, so there's still a chance I've made a clean sweep... that's what you're saying, right?


----------



## mudd

Andyd said:


> At this point I want to wait until Mark H advises on the official result, because a couple of the announced results were invalidated (there were a couple of score sheets that were not entered that I found when scanning, and a couple of beers whose entry numbers were announced incorrectly to tables, resulting in extra or missing score sheets for entries).
> 
> We should have them sorted tonight.
> 
> Andy


Disputed judging sheets - may have to redo the whole event - how about this weekend plenty of volunteers?

(too soon ?)


----------



## MartinOC

Hi Guys!

I'm a bit "calmer" & less pissed/pissed off than I was last night. I've got severe osteoarthritis in both feet & spending 2-3 days on my feet working like a dog for something that I love doing still hurts like hell. No-one heard me complain about it.

This was without doubt, the worst things have ever been for Vicbrew. Increased entry numbers, lost/missing entries (despite being checked & re-checked multiple times by the organisers), lack of judges & stewards to handle the 11 concurrent tables being run that HAD to be run to get through it (of the 9 stewards who committed to turning up, only 5 did). We could've run it with 9 at a push, but to then have no-shows just pissed me off. There were a number of other things that went wrong that added to the problems that I won't go into. What should've been a fun weekend turned into a real pain in the arse (& feet!!) for me & everyone else who had to pick-up the slack. We did it & actually managed to finish the judging. That in itself was a complete miracle.

The only thing that got me through it was my sense of humour. If you can't have a laugh whilst the world is taking a dump on you..& I just love yelling at judges.  

There's been some valid points raised here & I've made a note of them for Committee discussion during the debrief. I was also making a lot of notes during the event itself (as I always do), always thinking "How can we do this better?", "How do we cope with these situations?" etc..etc...

This competition is run by a hard-core of VERY committed & experienced volunteers that work together like a well-oiled machine, but this year has shown that even 'though we've got everything down-pat, there's always going to be problems that we just have to deal with. When I found out just how bad things were going to be, I said to myself "Suck it up Princess - You've got a job to do & everyone is relying on you to do it. Get stuck-in".

No plan, however well thought-out, survives first-contact with the enemy. This year the enemy was a huge increase in entry numbers, combined with a lack of manpower to accommodate that increase. We (ie. the Vicbrew Committee, the clubs & the Victorian Homebrewing community in general) now has to have some severely robust conversations about how we're going to HAVE to deal with this, or something's going to give. I for one am not going to throw my hands in the air & give up, resign & leave it to others to deal with. I'm not a quitter & neither are the other members of the committee. You can be assured of that.

All the keyboard-warriors out there obviously have absolutely no comprehension of the massive level of committed effort that goes into organising & running this competition for YOUR benefit (for instance, I have a 3-hour round trip just to attend committee meetings. One member drove/rode 850 Km over two days to pick up a handful of entries), all for your $8/entry. None of us gets paid for anything we do & no-one is reimbursed for their costs. Something for you to think about.

On the subject of costings, just so you guys have an idea:

Venue hire for the 2 days would normally cost $10K. Obviously, we can't afford that & we do get a discount from the venue (I won't mention the figure, but it's considerably more than the $1K Andy mentioned above), because we put so much over the bar & in meals. It's a loss for the venue, but they do it to support us.

Vicbrew pays for the meals for all judges & stewards - at LEAST $2K, if not $3K. That's our way of recognising folks that volunteer their time over the weekend.

Trophies - Over $1K

The cost of sundries & consumables (ie. printing/stationery/nibbles, glasses & jug purchase, covering the inevitable breakages etc...etc...) is an unknown to me, but it's paid-for. Sometimes we can't get enough sponsors for some categories, so Vicbrew does it. Vicbrew also supplies cheques to the novices in each of the sanctioned competitions throughout the year & that's about to increase to $100.

It's not about the costs, it's more about the TIME.

Like I said before, I do this 'cos I love doing it & I don't expect to get paid. I don't even do it to accumulate BJCP points (I'm not qualified, don't intend to be & I think I'm entitled to 2x/3x[?] the points a judge gets, for being Chief Steward). I do it for you guys & the love of good homebrewed beer in Victoria. The rest of the Committee is the same.

What I'd like to see is others turning-up to make it happen without it turning into a stress-fest for those that put-in. It's meant to be fun, not a chore for those that do it. I mean seriously, guys - it's a whole weekend of drinking free beer & talking shit with like-minded beer geeks. What could be better? Actually, no-one need answer that question...... h34r: 

Things WILL be better next year (one way or another). That's the eternal optimist in me.

I'll be there next year & commit to you that I'll work my guts out to make this competition happen, no matter how tough it gets.

Will you be there?


----------



## manticle

I will if I get 8 more people on my list.


----------



## Yob

I'd put my name on the list but I've been previously involved


----------



## Danscraftbeer

$8.00 an entry? It should be $20 at least $30?. Just saying I think that's fair. It just oil for the wheels and a little more respect as well yeah?
Quality over quantity, maybe.

Sad news dudes to read this overwhelming situation. I am new but would love to see this movement progress. As it obviously is! 
Wow! you have to look at what you have inspired too. A culture of home brewers. :beerbang:


----------



## idzy

Danscraftbeer said:


> $8.00 an entry? It should be $20 at least $30?. Just saying I think that's fair. It just oil for the wheels and a little more respect as well yeah?
> Quality over quantity, maybe.
> 
> Sad news dudes to read this overwhelming situation. I am new but would love to see this movement progress. As it obviously is!
> Wow! you have to look at what you have inspired too. A culture of home brewers. :beerbang:


Think the idea of making it cheap is to encourage entries, particularly from less seasoned brewers.

I am planning on making it again, hopefully for the whole weekend next year.


----------



## manticle

Yob said:


> I'd put my name on the list but I've been previously involved


I'll take contributions to my cellar as extra incentive.
Or you can buy me a plane. Finished gta san andreas so I can fly it easily enough.


----------



## manticle

Seem to be up
http://vicbrew.org/results.htm

Comp finished sunday, full results up by monday eve. I reckon that's not bad - I waited 2-3 days for the results of the first comp I ever entered and thought that was ok.

For the record, I have no involvement with vicbrew committee and had no involvement with this year's comp. I just know what's involved in running a big comp and while I don't support competitors being made to feel inadaquate for just competing, I also believe that waiting 24 hours for results won't kill you.
Suck it up. I bet you could wait forever to find out that you came last.

Congrats grant (b&t)? Consistently good results, well deserved. Must be the step mash profile you use.

Congrats to westgate and all competitors, hats off to volunteers and organisers.

Vicbrew asking for a hand for next year need neither be a martyred attack on others, nor a perceived attack by those others.
Keep it simple - vicbrew is big, needs help. If you can help, please do.

Thanks vicbrew, thanks competitors. The comp needs both.


----------



## MartinOC

Whilst I was soap-boxing & waxing lyrical, I forgot to say a huge, HUGE thank you to everyone that made it happen this time.

Stewards, I hope I wasn't too much of a martinet - I had to ask more of you guys this year than I've ever had to ask of my team in the past. You definitely stepped-up. Brilliant job! You're welcome back any time.

Judges, OK, I pushed you along, but it just HAD to be driven to conclusion in the time we had. I'm sorry if you didn't have time to savour & do justice to the good ones (the Stewards definitely enjoyed them....  ).

Like I said before, things WILL be better next year & hopefully, we can get back to having fun with it.....


----------



## Andyd

Geez, Manticle, have you had the vicbrew site on refresh all night? We've literally only just finished the email conversation 

Results have been published on CompMaster (http://www.compmaster.com.au//compmaster_resultSummary/23/full) also. Scoresheets should be up around Thursday at this stage.

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## Black n Tan

Many thanks to the organisers and volunteers, and congratulations to the other place getters. I look forward to stewarding again next year.



manticle said:


> Congrats grant (b&t)? Consistently good results, well deserved. Must be the step mash profile you use.


Yes that is me. Thank you and I do step mash.


----------



## mugley

Message for Sandy Erskine of no club, in case you're on here...

Looks like your Northern English Brown and Belgian Strong Golden got entered into the reverse categories. Thought the brown was pretty damn tasty; hope there's something useful in the feedback despite the harsh scoring for having to judge it against a completely dissimilar category.


----------



## manticle

Andyd said:


> Geez, Manticle, have you had the vicbrew site on refresh all night? We've literally only just finished the email conversation
> 
> Results have been published on CompMaster (http://www.compmaster.com.au//compmaster_resultSummary/23/full) also. Scoresheets should be up around Thursday at this stage.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andy


Funny cos it was the first time I looked. Had no entries, nothing to do with the comp at all this year. All this hoohah and thete they were, plain as day.
I reckon top job getting them posted as quickly as you did.


----------



## Yob

Pretty stoked with a 126 point beer.. Tough cat for sure to have still placed 7th with a score like that.

Big ups to all involved in running it as well as the place getters 

Can't wait to get hold of the score sheets and will probably read them over the last bottle of my raspberry RIS


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

If your raspberry RIS was the one I got to taste while stewarding, man that was tasty!!!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Yob said:


> Pretty stoked with a 126 point beer.. Tough cat for sure to have still placed 7th with a score like that.


It was a pretty high scoring category indeed.

Same for me was pretty happy with my Red IPA scoring 120 - even if it did place 14th. Twas a bugger it could go in as a proper IPA - would have done quite well with that score


----------



## mxd

GrumpyPaul said:


> It was a pretty high scoring category indeed.
> 
> Same for me was pretty happy with my Red IPA scoring 120 - even if it did place 14th. Twas a bugger it could go in as a proper IPA - would have done quite well with that score


i think the guys scoring the ips's were tough judges


----------



## lobedogg

First comp for me and I'm stoked! My stout scored 109.5 which gave me 6th place!
My other two entries got 14th (Low Alcohol) and 16th (Pilsner). First AG attempt at all three styles for me!

Not sure if there was a mixup with my pilsner entry as it has been categorised as a Classic American Pilsner when it was definitely a Bohemian. Guess I'll wait for the score sheets and double-check then.


----------



## Dippet

Pretty happy all round. 2nd APA, 4th Saison and 14th IPA. IPA wasn't up to scratch, thought it was still real young.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Pretty happy too. My low alcohol entry came fifth at 108 and missed top 3 by a couple of points..oh well..Nearly didn't enter it as was bottled off keg and sitting in back of the fridge for several months. Happy with results of Oktoberfest and bock given only two months old. The lower scores..well looking forward to feedback to continue to improve. 

Thanks again to all the volunteers and everyone involved.


----------



## Wolfman

What's with the dislike for a chill beer? I guess 2 ghost chillies in a 20L batch was a little toooooooo much?


----------



## Black n Tan

Wolfman said:


> What's with the dislike for a chill beer? I guess 2 ghost chillies in a 20L batch was a little toooooooo much?


I think the problem is it burnt the bottom out of every vessel we tried to put it in. Only two chillies did that!


----------



## Grainer

Dippet said:


> Pretty happy all round. 2nd APA, 4th Saison and 14th IPA. IPA wasn't up to scratch, thought it was still real young.


Congrats. I judged the farmhouse.. some good beers


----------



## timmi9191

Grainer said:


> Congrats. I judged the farmhouse.. some good beers


My Wit went pretty well. Also considering it was the first time Id ever brewed a wit, used spices or that strain of yeast. Hopefully can only improve on that next year.


----------



## mofox1

Black n Tan said:


> I think the problem is it burnt the bottom out of every vessel we tried to put it in. Only two chillies did that!


Err, ow. Poor "vessels".


----------



## Wolfman

Black n Tan said:


> I think the problem is it burnt the bottom out of every vessel we tried to put it in. Only two chillies did that!


Yer that's it mate, 2 ghost chillies. I guess they are not for everyone?


----------



## bullsneck

When are the bottles for the Nationals due?


----------



## fraser_john

Wolfman said:


> Yer that's it mate, 2 ghost chillies. I guess they are not for everyone?


I liked it at the Top 5, might have needed a bit more body to balance the intense heat. Would be awesome with tradition wood fired oven pizza piled high with ham and cheese.


----------



## mxd

booker_h said:


> When are the bottles for the Nationals due?


By Monday I think I got an email last night from the organisers .


----------



## Blind Dog

Had the same e-mail. Vic Brew are organizing a bulk shipment and bottles need to be with a committee member before Monday 5th. I'm hoping for a response to my return e-mail so that I don't have to spend the weekend randomly wandering the city, clutching my entries, asking people if they're a member of the VicBrew committee. Might be a good job its a long weekend.

If you can't get the bottles to the VicBrew committee, the AABC entry form states that entries are due at CraftBrewer on Friday 2nd October and I assume that you'll have to cover postage personally although the e-mail did say that VicBrew will cover the entry fee (just note it on the form)


----------



## mxd

booker_h said:


> When are the bottles for the Nationals due?


By Monday I think I got an email last night from the organisers .


----------



## mxd

booker_h said:


> When are the bottles for the Nationals due?


By Monday I think I got an email last night from the organisers .


----------



## Dippet

Grainer said:


> Congrats. I judged the farmhouse.. some good beers


Look forward to reading the scoresheet!


----------



## darrenp

Very happy with my second place in the Strong Lager with my Eisbock. Big thanks to all the organisers sounds like it was a massive undertaking. Will indeed try and make myself available next year.


----------



## mxd

Blind Dog said:


> Had the same e-mail. Vic Brew are organizing a bulk shipment and bottles need to be with a committee member before Monday 5th. I'm hoping for a response to my return e-mail so that I don't have to spend the weekend randomly wandering the city, clutching my entries, asking people if they're a member of the VicBrew committee. Might be a good job its a long weekend.
> 
> If you can't get the bottles to the VicBrew committee, the AABC entry form states that entries are due at CraftBrewer on Friday 2nd October and I assume that you'll have to cover postage personally although the e-mail did say that VicBrew will cover the entry fee (just note it on the form)



I planned on dropping them off to brewers den tomorrow otherwise there is a Melbourne brewers meeting tomorrow night at boronia you could drop them off at


----------



## darrenp

It doesn't look like I've been sent an email. Can I PM someone my email address or find out what's involved in getting my entry organised?


----------



## MartinOC

Darrenp said:


> It doesn't look like I've been sent an email. Can I PM someone my email address or find out what's involved in getting my entry organised?


Darren, send it to me & I'll see if I can get an answer/solution for you.


----------



## lmccrone

mxd said:


> I planned on dropping them off to brewers den tomorrow otherwise there is a Melbourne brewers meeting tomorrow night at boronia you could drop them off at


You people meet on a Wednesday night?? You either take this beer drinking thing a lot less, or a lot, lot more seriously than the Westgate brewers


----------



## manticle

Darrenp said:


> It doesn't look like I've been sent an email. Can I PM someone my email address or find out what's involved in getting my entry organised?


PM martinoc or andyd


----------



## DU99

If anyone is interested.. :icon_offtopic: check the bjcp site for what to do and exams


----------



## Andy_Chil

I'm in the same boat as Darrenp. This was my first ever Brew comp and I would like to have a go at the nationals but I have no idea how to go about it.
It was quite a shock to get a first!!
Darrenp, I'm up the road in Fishy and could get bottles to Melbourne on Thursday??


----------



## darrenp

Really OMG I'm sitting here sulking because the boss wont let me go to Melbourne Brewers tomorrow night because she has a mums group dinner. That was about the only chance I'd have to get down. If you could get down there Thursday that would be great. Looks like we need to sort that club out.

Thanks


----------



## GrumpyPaul

You tell MrsDarrenp that you're an award winning brewer and to get her priorities right.


----------



## MartinOC

Contact [email protected] on the website for answers (for some reason, I can't access anything on the site to give you guys a linky...)


----------



## Andyd

Evening all (or morning). I've just finished uploading all the scoresheets to CompMaster. If you entered online, your scoresheets can be downloaded from the "MyEntries" tab.

Let me know if there are any missing sheets and I'll see what we can do to fix it.

Cheers!

Andy


----------



## MartinOC

Guys, please note the time of Andy's post if anyone has doubts about the committment shown by members of the organising committee......


----------



## manticle

It's only cos you were all out till the wee hours gambling away the expansive profits from the exorbitant entry fees.
Please note also both posts above were sent from ibiza and were typed with an expensive escort on each arm.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

manticle said:


> Please note also both posts above were sent from ibiza and were typed with an expensive escort on each arm.


I suppose if you looked at it from a distance and squinted really hard Tasmania might look like Ibiza...


----------



## darrenp

Andy_Chil said:


> I'm in the same boat as Darrenp. This was my first ever Brew comp and I would like to have a go at the nationals but I have no idea how to go about it.
> It was quite a shock to get a first!!
> Darrenp, I'm up the road in Fishy and could get bottles to Melbourne on Thursday??


Thanks For the offer Andrew but I've decided to send my entry off today by express post. Must catch up for a brew soon.


----------



## Wolfman

Anyone know what this box is used for?


----------



## MartinOC

Erm.....indicating Stylistic accuracy & Technical Merit perhaps??


----------



## dannymars

^^ Boxes weren't ticked on a lot of my entries either.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Hypothetically speaking.

Lets pretend you got a third place in the APA category scoring 106. So you get to submit an entry into the APA category at the Nats.

And lets pretend you also put what you called a RED IPA in the Specialty category that scored 120 and the judging comments are things like, "bitterness a the low end for an IPA", and "too good for and IPA" , and "more like an APA"...

Hypothetically would you send the APA that got 106 to the Nationals or rename the red IPA that scored 120 and say its an APA and send it up.


----------



## Blind Dog

Pretty sure there's nothing in the rules that says the hypothetical entrant has to enter the same beer, but even at the low end of bitterness a Red IPA isn't that likely to fit the style guidelines for an APA on colour, strength, body and mouthfeel. Unless of course it always was an APA and the hypothetical entrant merely mislabelled it and is confident it will score well against other APAs


----------



## julesinoz

So. Can someone let me now which committee member is closest to Northcote area. And how can I reach that person to organise a drop off. That is assuming I have enough ml remaining in my keg to fill a bottle. I didn't realise the drop off was so near and tapped a few in celebration to share at our meeting last night. Oops. 

Thanks heaps for a great comp guys.


----------



## Spiesy

fraser_john said:


> I liked it at the Top 5, might have needed a bit more body to balance the intense heat. Would be awesome with tradition wood fired oven pizza piled high with ham and cheese.


Traditional pizzas aren't "piled high" with anything [emoji6]


----------



## Grainer

GrumpyPaul said:


> Hypothetically speaking.
> 
> Lets pretend you got a third place in the APA category scoring 106. So you get to submit an entry into the APA category at the Nats.
> 
> And lets pretend you also put what you called a RED IPA in the Specialty category that scored 120 and the judging comments are things like, "bitterness a the low end for an IPA", and "too good for and IPA" , and "more like an APA"...
> 
> Hypothetically would you send the APA that got 106 to the Nationals or rename the red IPA that scored 120 and say its an APA and send it up.


You do not have to enter the same entry, just the same category/style.

John


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> You do not have to enter the same entry, just the same category/style.
> 
> John


John IS correct, however....

If you have more of the same beer, it really SHOULD be the rightful entry to the Nat's.
If you don't have it, you can re-brew the same beer (time permitting),or enter a substitute.
Swapping just because you think you've got a better beer to put in is considered bad etiquette. :angry:


----------



## Andyd

Wolfman said:


> Untitled3.png
> 
> Anyone know what this box is used for?


It's a guide to help judges double check that their point scores are in the right ballpark. The "scale" at the bottom of the page also helps. For example, if I've written comments that allude to a beer being out of style, I might tick this box just so I remember to take that into account when giving a point score.

Andy


----------



## Wolfman

MartinOC said:


> Erm.....indicating Stylistic accuracy & Technical Merit perhaps??


Of the 8 sheets returned 2 had these fillied in. So if they are not filled in why have them on the sheet?

I must say I am disappointed with the feedback I received. The content of the feedback is the most disappointing. I know that these comps are run with volunteers. But if the judges put their hands up to judge please provide some decent feedback, including ticking the boxes. The lack of detail I would expect from the lesser comps, not the state championship. I have paid my money for the privilege of the judges to taste my beer.

I have read some of the feedback others received from other judges. Maybe the less experienced judges judged my beers? But I would have thought the more experienced judges would have been allocated to the bigger categories? Then again I'm not involved in the running of the states premier home brewing event.

I have been told that the judges were rushed as the time was running out. I don't see this as a fair excuse as some beers may have had more attention than others. We all paid the same price to enter and all expect the same amount of detailed feedback.

Having read all the comments in the past few pages, I understand it's run by volunteers whom don't get paid. But I think a 33% increase in entries we all need to do something. What's the fix? Shit I don't know. A revamp of the whole comp? Maybe. Move it away from school holidays/footy finals time? Maybe. Better education for people who wish to start judging? Maybe. Running more of the BJCP coarse so as judges are better prepared? Maybe. Running detailed judging education sessions? Maybe. Setting a time limit for each beer so as they all receive the same amount of attention? Maybe. Encouraging clubs to play their part in the running of the comp? Maybe.

The craft beer industry is moving at an incredible speed. The home brewing movement is also tagging along for this ride. More and more people are getting into home brewing, with a 33% increase in entries to this event alone, it's time to do something. This is just my opinion. Take how you want, shit even throw stones at me, abuse me for not helping out, call me a sore loser if you wish. But something needs to change otherwise it'll all turn to shit!

That's my rant!


----------



## Mardoo

Spiesy said:


> Traditional pizzas aren't "piled high" with anything [emoji6]


...aaaaand traditional beer doesn't have chiles in it. But I'd consume them both as I drag my knuckles around the place.


----------



## Andyd

Wolf man,

I agree that in many instances the level of feedback could be lifted from the outset.

Something I have the "luxury" of seeing is the progression of the decline in feedback quality as a flight progresses. Most people start with quite good feedback and clear handwriting at the commencement of a flight. By the end, many have degraded to very brief and sometimes uninformative comments, and poor handwriting.

I've found that this usually ramps up about half way through a long flight, indicating that flights should really be set up to be significantly shorter than they currently are. Of course, this is only possible with a large pool of judges.

There will always be judges who provide less than desirable feedback - whether novices, under informed or just lazy. But the majority are there to help Brewers in the community to improve. Remember, they're not there just to earn a crust 

Not making excuses for the offending sheets - they frustrate me as well, just as a judge observer. 

Sorry you didn't get the feedback you were after... Don't let it discourage you from entering comps in general - I've had many judges who have provided great feedback.

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## Spiesy

This is the State comp, not a specific club comp. All Melbourne based brew clubs that wish to compete should could perhaps be 'encouraged' to help volunteer at the event. Perhaps a number based on the amount of club members that club has (i.e club 'X' has 20% of the Melbourne members, they provide 20% of the volunteers)?


----------



## evvy.rogerson

Thanks to the organisers, judges, stewards and special thanks to Michael Bowron for the detailed feedback on my scoresheet.


----------



## Blind Dog

Not exactly sure what you want in terms of feedback, and not seeing your sheets I clearly can't comment. The feedback I received was pretty decent - generally fairly brief, but quite useful. Some was clearly crap and certain judges should be aware that I am completely incapable of producing any flaws in any of my beers. I'm just pushing styles boundaries. A Helles tasting of crisp green apples is a wonderful thing. Not my fault that the idiot who wrote the style guidelines is a fool

At the end, the score and comments are just the opinions of 2 or 3 fellow home brewers, who may or may not have a better / more experienced palate that you, so you really should compare their comments with your own notes, and maybe taste your beer(s) again with their comments and your own notes to evaluate their accuracy.

I know that on Sunday the average time per beer was around 15 minutes, which is a pretty reasonable amount of time to evaluate, discuss and score a beer but isn't going to leave a great deal of time to write detailed notes afterwards. Even at that pace you're talking about something way over 500 volunteer hours to run the competition once you add the stewards, clean-up, sorting bottles, picking up entries etc. The primary purpose of any competition is surely to find the best entries; I can't think of another type of competition where the provision of feedback is an inherent part of the process. I know homebrew comps i entered back in the UK just rated the beers against each other with nothing provided by way of feedback, and talking to friends involved in other hobbies, they don't appear to get anything - sometimes not even a score


I'm not on the committee, or a judge (although I think Princess is the technical term?), just enjoyed stewarding. I think there are issues that need to be addressed and I'm sure they will be, but I also think we're in a pretty good place. I mean over 600 entries for fark's sake, that's epic


----------



## Grainer

Went back and had a look at the scoresheets I wrote being a novice judge.. Things I noticed and good now that I have had a look.

-The initial 3-4 int he flight flight had minimal comments...sorry...probably due to getting into the swing of things and about half way through the flight I found myself giving more useful comments and suggestions on recipe improvements and fermentation issues from my own experiences.
- I found inconsistencies in filling out the sheets.. e.g.. Wolfmans comments. I did not always fill out stylistic accuracy only 50% of them this was done. I like some of the other scoresheets I have sen that describe beer faults etc on the sheets..they are really helpful and help prompt addional feedback (as attached)
- I found the more the flight went on the more useful my comments were..surprising cause I expected to see some deterioration, but it was exactly the opposite. With a flight of 40 something?? I think we did well between the 2 of us. with about 23 or so done on the first day. It didn't so much help that both calibration beers were either buttery or autolysis on either day  but you probably expect that from the brewing company.

all in all a good experience to go back and have a look. 

I found my comments on my judging sheets mostly useful and I will now be spending a few days improving my recipes ..Thanks heaps to all the judges.


----------



## Fourstar

GrumpyPaul said:


> Hypothetically speaking.
> 
> Lets pretend you got a third place in the APA category scoring 106. So you get to submit an entry into the APA category at the Nats.
> 
> And lets pretend you also put what you called a RED IPA in the Specialty category that scored 120 and the judging comments are things like, "bitterness a the low end for an IPA", and "too good for and IPA" , and "more like an APA"...
> 
> Hypothetically would you send the APA that got 106 to the Nationals or rename the red IPA that scored 120 and say its an APA and send it up.



Paul,

Bring both along to the meeting tonight (if you have enough) and i will volunteer myself as someone who judges how i think they will fall in the Nats.

In short, just because it gets 120 in specialty as a red IPA doesn't mean it stylistically fits an APA. IPA to APA translates well (and can stand out as a hoppy-er IPA) but the reverse doesn't translate so well (an APA as an IPA is underwhelming on the hop factor usually.)

Cheers,
Braden


----------



## Fourstar

Wolfman said:


> Of the 8 sheets returned 2 had these fillied in. So if they are not filled in why have them on the sheet?



To speak frankly, as someone who judges regularly i often forget to fill this out but I deliberately don't omit it. Why? Probably due to the amount of detail i put into my notes and likely because its pushed off to the side of the scoresheet. You're too focused on evaluating and writing more than focusing on remembering to "tick that box" pushed off to the bottom left. its almost like one of those boxes on a form that state "for admin use only" and you end up skimming over it. It's just the way it is. Feel free to drag me over the coals for it but i can attest its not out of laziness (at least on my part.)

Saying all that, if from my notes and relevant scoring if you cannot discern where your beer sits within the style. Feel free to call me out on it. You deserve more from your 8 bucks.

As an arm waving exercise, if you're scoring 40+ and its all positive feedback, its likely due to minor stylistic interpretation. 
if your sub 30 and you have major production faults in the noted, its likely technical merit being the shortfall and or some style faults.
if you're 30-40 its likely a combination of the two (minor issues).


Cheers,
Braden


----------



## Toper

mis post,can't find the delete


----------



## MartinOC

Wolfman,

Re: your post @ #404 above....

Yep, LOTS of stuff to be worked-out, discussed & resolved, as there ALWAYS is after every comp. How did the Merri Mashers' debrief go? Did you even have one? I dunno, as I didn't see anything on the facebook pages after it was finished. No-one asked me for my notes or feedback....Huh?? How do you expect to learn & improve?

Every year we (the committee) discuss what we can do to improve the way things go & lots of little changes get implemented. This year it seems that, with ever-increasing numbers, things will have to change in larger amounts.

Like I've said previously, there's going to be ROBUST conversations between all the stake-holders to work-out how to deal with all the issues which arose from this one. It was a complete shit-storm.

We only get ONE go at this each year & even after 20 years of doing it, we're always looking for ways to improve.

I don't have all the answers. Neither does anyone else, but if we work together cooperatively, things will improve (as they have been for 20 years).

I get the feeling that everyone looks up to Vicbrew as the premier comp. in Victoria & just simply expects that it all works perfectly smoothly every time. Unlimited budget, resources & manpower available. Well, it doesn't.

In order to make it work for everybody, then EVERYBODY needs to contribute. The Committee coordinates, but can't do everything.

Are we a cohesive community or a bunch of narcissistic individuals who expect to just pay $8 for quality feedback on their beers & make no contribution?


----------



## manticle

Wolfman's criticisms are valid but are criticisms for judges to sit up and take notice rather than vicbrew committee/organisers.

If you're going to judge, make an effort for it to be useful.
Think about what you'd like to receive as a competitor.


----------



## MartinOC

Thanks, Manticle. You're right. I forgot to include/mention that bit in my unassailable rantage....I think I'll have another beer... :chug: 
I guess to distill my thoughts (sorry to mention the "D" word...), the Committee puts-in a huge amount of effort to bring this thing together over 12 months, only to be let-down by a lack of commitment from the very people it seeks to serve.


----------



## Yob

Fourstar said:


> if you're scoring 40+ and its all positive feedback, its likely due to minor stylistic interpretation.


now this is exactly where I sit, but there isnt much by way of comment as to where the minor flaws are so incredibly difficult to change things to get those extra 3-5 points... particularly when you only get 8 out of 10 and also says no faults :blink: ...

Judges names omitted for privacy







dont get me wrong, Im stoked with the scores and the feedback, itd just be a little more helpful for the next iteration if I had some guidance as to where I lost those few points.

again, cheers to everyone involved.


----------



## manticle

Fourstar said:


> To speak frankly, as someone who judges regularly i often forget to fill this out but I deliberately don't omit it. Why? Probably due to the amount of detail i put into my notes and likely because its pushed off to the side of the scoresheet. You're too focused on evaluating and writing more than focusing on remembering to "tick that box" pushed off to the bottom left. its almost like one of those boxes on a form that state "for admin use only" and you end up skimming over it. It's just the way it is. Feel free to drag me over the coals for it but i can attest its not out of laziness (at least on my part.)
> 
> Saying all that, if from my notes and relevant scoring if you cannot discern where your beer sits within the style. Feel free to call me out on it. You deserve more from your 8 bucks.
> 
> As an arm waving exercise, if you're scoring 40+ and its all positive feedback, its likely due to minor stylistic interpretation.
> if your sub 30 and you have major production faults in the noted, its likely technical merit being the shortfall and or some style faults.
> if you're 30-40 its likely a combination of the two (minor issues).
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Braden





Fourstar said:


> To speak frankly, as someone who judges regularly i often forget to fill this out but I deliberately don't omit it. Why? Probably due to the amount of detail i put into my notes and likely because its pushed off to the side of the scoresheet. You're too focused on evaluating and writing more than focusing on remembering to "tick that box" pushed off to the bottom left. its almost like one of those boxes on a form that state "for admin use only" and you end up skimming over it. It's just the way it is. Feel free to drag me over the coals for it but i can attest its not out of laziness (at least on my part.)
> 
> Saying all that, if from my notes and relevant scoring if you cannot discern where your beer sits within the style. Feel free to call me out on it. You deserve more from your 8 bucks.
> 
> As an arm waving exercise, if you're scoring 40+ and its all positive feedback, its likely due to minor stylistic interpretation.
> if your sub 30 and you have major production faults in the noted, its likely technical merit being the shortfall and or some style faults.
> if you're 30-40 its likely a combination of the two (minor issues).
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Braden


Pretty sure your scoresheets are not the kind he's referring to. I never tick those boxes either but always make an effort to write legibly, clearly and with some useful detail. Can't promise I get it right every time (like andyd says mid flight is often the hardest) but I've seen some very lazy/half arsed filling out of sheets, some by novice judges, some by bjcp judges at Nats.
Heard experienced judges tell novices not to waste time on a beer that won't be a placegetter or has major issues (when feedback is arguably most useful) yet received scores of 40+ for a winner with about 3 words on the whole page.

I've seen your sheets. They are not these.


----------



## Wolfman

MartinOC said:


> Wolfman,
> 
> Re: your post @ #404 above....
> 
> Yep, LOTS of stuff to be worked-out, discussed & resolved, as there ALWAYS is after every comp. How did the Merri Mashers' debrief go? Did you even have one? I dunno, as I didn't see anything on the facebook pages after it was finished. No-one asked me for my notes or feedback....Huh?? How do you expect to learn & improve?



The IPA comp went well. However we had no where near the entries vicbrew had. The committee thought we didn't need a de de breif as it all ran smoothly. But feel free to pass on your comments. 

[/quote]

Every year we (the committee) discuss what we can do to improve the way things go & lots of little changes get implemented. This year it seems that, with ever-increasing numbers, things will have to change in larger amounts.

Like I've said previously, there's going to be ROBUST conversations between all the stake-holders to work-out how to deal with all the issues which arose from this one. It was a complete shit-storm.
[/quote] 

Please use my suggestions as they maybe some questions you might like to ask. 


[/quote]
We only get ONE go at this each year & even after 20 years of doing it, we're always looking for ways to improve.

I don't have all the answers. Neither does anyone else, but if we work together cooperatively, things will improve (as they have been for 20 years).[/quote]

I don't have he answers either. Was just trying to provide some feedback. 


[/quote]
I get the feeling that everyone looks up to Vicbrew as the premier comp. in Victoria & just simply expects that it all works perfectly smoothly every time. Unlimited budget, resources & manpower available. Well, it doesn't.[/quote]

Yes it is the premier comp of a the state as this is what gets you to be he nats. However without detailed feedback some of us will never get there. How do we improve with out being told where to improve ?

[/quote]

In order to make it work for everybody, then EVERYBODY needs to contribute. The Committee coordinates, but can't do everything.
Once again feel free to use my comments.

[/quote]
Are we a cohesive community or a bunch of narcissistic individuals who expect to just pay $8 for quality feedback on their beers & make no contribution?
[/quote]

Yes we are a community and it's not all about the money. We all won't to improve our beers as that's what entering comps is about. One thing I've never understood about horse racing is why would you enter the horse if you didn't think it was going to win? 

You seem to have taken my comments personally. I understand that your not happy about how it all unfolded. No real reason to take it out on someone who's trying to help. Just my opinion is all it was. Yes I didn't help out. Yes I had other things on. 

My beef about comps has always been the feedback. It's easy to say the beer is shit, but I want to know why and how can I improve for next time. One of the forms from our own comp had bugger all comments scored me well but then got calibrate. Fair enough I thought as there was 2 other judges so has to be within 7 points. But at least tell me you liked it and you got calibrated down. One thought I had was judging the judges. How do they improve their judging if I hey don't know how the person they judged feels about he feedback? Just a trying to think of ways to improve for all of us. 

Again it wasn't a dig at you or the committee. Was just trying to provide constructive feedback on the comments I'd seen in the previous pages. 

Back in my box I go.


----------



## manticle

Your feedback is excellent S and as I said, needs to be taken on by judges at all levels.


----------



## MartinOC

Wolfman, I definitely didn't take it personally. I've noted your comments/suggestions for discussion, as you had some great points/ideas. Thanks!


----------



## Fourstar

Yob said:


> now this is exactly where I sit, but there isnt much by way of comment as to where the minor flaws are so incredibly difficult to change things to get those extra 3-5 points... particularly when you only get 8 out of 10 and also says no faults :blink: ...
> 
> Judges names omitted for privacy


Looking at the detail of scoring on the first scoresheet, i'd say this is the standard that needs to be set across the entire flight. This comes from experience AND willingness to evaluate correctly and populate the scoresheet well. This is the level of detail i like to provide as a minimum. Sometimes the beer doesn't help you out either which can in turn lend to a lack of comments of its attributes but definitely leaves room to detail what the beer lacks. 

This is something thats typically neglected across scoresheets. What the beer has is documented well usually, not what it lacks against a style. This is where BJCP and a deeper understanding of beer styles. Again, hard for specialty as a lot of it comes from personal interpretation of the beer presented against a base style.

As for the 8/10 for aroma my judgment here would be process of elimination, if there are no faults i'd be expecting it to be balance of the fruit with the base style or a level of '_je ne sais quoi' . _ Its difficult to sum up on a specialty beer without being the judge myself. overall, with 1 = excellent and 5 = terrible, for all three of the checkboxes you'd be looking at a mix of ones and twos. Does this help? probably not, so i'd be taking them with a train of salt anyway. use the comments as the evidence in any scenario.

Cheers,
Braden


----------



## worthogs webmaster

My only concern with such expectation is that not everyone is BJCP certified, nor do they wish to be. Demanding such standards of judges might put some off, when really all competitions are crying out for them.


----------



## MartinOC

Not all judges need to be BJCP certified/qualified etc., but we do need a few more to create a core of available bodies to cover comps. 1 qualified judge per table is all that's required.

The Committee has a new member who is working on a plan to fire-up a training program to get more people in the system.


----------



## manticle

worthogs webmaster said:


> My only concern with such expectation is that not everyone is BJCP certified, nor do they wish to be. Demanding such standards of judges might put some off, when really all competitions are crying out for them.


Actually it's a lot of bjcp judges who need a kick in the pants.


----------



## mudd

MartinOC said:


> Not all judges need to be BJCP certified/qualified etc., but we do need a few more to create a core of available bodies to cover comps. 1 qualified judge per table is all that's required.
> 
> The Committee has a new member who is working on a plan to fire-up a training program to get more people in the system.


Great!!


----------



## brianvcskin

Everybody is talking about their scoresheets haven't received mine yet . When are the due to be posted or emailed ? Thanks


----------



## GrumpyPaul

brianvcskin said:


> Everybody is talking about their scoresheets haven't received mine yet . When are the due to be posted or emailed ? Thanks


if you entered on Compmaster - you can get them online. If not it could take a while - I think it was a couple of weeks after the event last year


----------



## MartinOC

GP is correct.

Bear in mind that not everyone entered via Compmaster. I think I remember AndyD saying he'd just finished loading 1200 or 1300 sheets for the CM entrants. That leaves about 400-500 manual/paper entries that need to be sorted-out.

Some poor bunny has to sit-down with a spreadsheet of all the entrants, work-out who is a "paper" entrant & pull those out of the 1300 scoresheets.

These get passed to another bunny who then sorts-out which categories those entrants put entries into, separate them-out & put them into piles for re-sorting, where they are then collated into piles for the individual entrants (this can be a monumental task if someone has entered multiple categories).

This takes time & a great-many beers to achieve. I've spent an entire weekend with another committee member doing this in the past. Luckily, there was a lot of beer available to "lubricate" the task... :chug: 

Only when that's done, will they be mailed-out. Consider that all the committee members have day-jobs, so time is limited.

Your patience is appreciated.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Sweet!
I got 13th in American Pale Ale with a Coopers Mexican Cerveza, kit yeast and hops! Wish I had of steeped some specialty grains


----------



## Dippet

When are trophies delivered?


----------



## mudd

Dippet said:


> When are trophies delivered?


Hi mate, probably similar to getting your feedback sheets out by post it can take some time. For members of clubs they are generally distributed via the club. If your not a club member suggest you email VicBrew directly address is on their website from memory.


----------



## brianvcskin

Received my notes on Friday pretty quick in comparison to other 2 comps I entered well done to the organisers good job inspite of the issues you had.


----------



## thebigwilk

Heres Cheers to everyone who entered Vic brew and a big thanks to those who organize the event. Wishing everybody the best of luck for the Nationals.


----------



## MartinOC

Nice one Centurion!


----------



## mofox1

You're not competition, so good luck wilk's 

*Edit:* I'd post pic's of mine, but then B&T would come along and post the eleventy that he won... :angry2: ... :lol: :beerbang:


----------



## MartinOC

mofox1 said:


> You're not competition, so good luck wilk's


Who's not competition??

Last year, I entered 1 single beer.... ONE. That was only done to help the Worthogs boost numbers for 2014 when the "Barney" was awarded for the first time.

After 10+ years bereft of brewing & entering comp's, I entered ONE beer out of 500+ ( it was the first brew off my new rig).: 1st-Place in Porters..Nice! Pretty good strike-rate, n'est pas??

It wasn't a "competitive" entry.....it's just what I made for a relative & added some dextrose to a known recipe to push the ABV for his tastes. That's what you guys in the last Vic. winter case-swap got as my swap beer. Sorry you guys got a 1st-place-winning beer by default... h34r:

Competitive? Pft!!!! 'Couldn't give a shit. I just make good/love beer & appreciate a good one when it's put in front of me...


----------



## Black n Tan

MartinOC said:


> It wasn't a "competitive" entry.....it's just what I made for a relative & added some dextrose to a known recipe to push the ABV for his tastes. That's what you guys in the last Vic. winter case-swap got as my swap beer. Sorry you guys got a 1st-place-winning beer by default... h34r:


Still got it. What would such a bottle be worth?


----------



## manticle

@martin - I think mofox just meant they'll both be in different cats in the nats (hence not 'competition').

Could be wrong.


----------



## manticle

And you guys suck at using apostrophes. If there was a comp for that, you'd all be in the major faults section.


----------



## mofox1

manticle said:


> @martin - I think mofox just meant they'll both be in different cats in the nats (hence not 'competition').
> 
> Could be wrong.


Indeedy. Not intended any other way.


----------



## MartinOC

Black n Tan said:


> Still got it. What would such a bottle be worth?


Just drink it mate.


----------



## Black n Tan

MartinOC said:


> Just drink it mate.


If I have too.


----------



## MartinOC

Go on...Force yourself to do it... :chug:


----------



## MartinOC

'Just wanted to say a big thanks for everyone who has made comments/suggestions here & via emails to the Vicbrew Admin (especially B&T!). It's all being taken on-board for discussion.

We were due to have the debrief last night but it's been postponed until next week, when it's expected that we'll thrash-out a lot of the problems that occurred this year.

After 20+ years of incremental improvements that get implemented each year (sorry for the alliteration..), I'm still at a loss to understand how everything went so horribly wrong in 2015. I just don't understand it myself...

Watch this space....

EDIT: Some of this stuff has already been discussed in Brisbane by the National delegates. As our Vicbrew Chairman pointed-out:

".....it's worth noting that Vic had six 4th placed beers (four of them missed out on a place by less than 1.5 points) and four 5th placed beers (two missed out a place by less than 1.5 points). So I think there's a bit of unluck(!) in there too."


----------



## Black n Tan

'Chance favours the prepared mind' as WA have proved


----------

