# 100% Wheat Beer



## Doc

Has anyone here at AHB attempted a 100% Wheat beer ?
I was searching around for new recipe ideas last night, and found a 100% wheat beer from Chris ( the guy that bought us the HourglassIPA and hopping every minute ).
He uses Wheat, Crystal Wheat and Chocolate Wheat for his 100% wheat beer.
Check out his thread at HBA here.
I'm crazy enough to give it a go. Will have to get some Chocolate Wheat in first though.

Beers,
Doc


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## bonk

sounds like something to give a bash. who the heck sells chocolate wheat????


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## wessmith

Bonk, we have both Weyermann Chocolate Wheat and Carawheat available. There is also a Joe White Roasted Wheat and a Thomas Fawcett Crystal Wheat and a Roasted Wheat Malt. Just ask your usual supplier - they can order them for you if they are not currently in stock.

Wes


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## tdh

...and don't forget a good helping of rice hulls. 5% of grist weight is what I recall, I'd double it to be safe.

tdh


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## timmy

Where does all the diastatic power come from? I've been led to believe that wheat malt doesn't contain the enzymes needed.

Should be an interesting brew at the least. I'm with tdh on the hulls, i could imagine some stuck sparges with this one.


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## Jim_Levet

Interesting grain combo. Would a grain bag work better than rice hulls? does anybody here ever use a grain bag? Interested in hearing what you think of them.
James


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## wessmith

Timmy, this story about wheat malt not having sufficent enzymes pops up from time to time - it is one of the great urban myths of home brewing. Aussie Wheat malt is LOADED with diastatic power. Dont worry about the enzymes needed for conversion - they are there in abundance.

Wes.


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## Weizguy

Would this beer mature quite quickly, like other wheat beer?
...and can I get an opinion on how drinkable it would be for Summer weather.
U don't have to be crazy to give this a go, Doc. U just have to be keen.
Seth


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## Doc

Weiz,

With the carawheat and chocolate wheat and the numbers I got when I plugged it into Promash the result will be more like a Porter than a Wheat beer especially if you don't use a weizen yeast.
If you were to use a weizen yeast I'd be guessing you would end up with a strange tasting porter/dunkelweizen.
As for maturing quicker, I have no idea. Maybe Wes has more of a clue on that.

Beers,
Doc


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## Weizguy

Yep. Doesn't seem to suit a wheat yeast.
Prob a bit heavy for my Summer tastes, but may well get a run for Winter with a German or London Ale yeast (or London III or ESB).
Thanks for the feedback.
It goes to show that wheat isn't just for weizen.

Seth


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## bonk

thanks Wess, i knew about the jw roasted and tf crystal, forgot about the german stuff.


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## JasonY

Doc, did you end up brewing this? I am thinking of doing a wheat beer this weekend and haven't really settled on what style. Could be tempted to try this?


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## Doc

JasonY said:


> Doc, did you end up brewing this? I am thinking of doing a wheat beer this weekend and haven't really settled on what style. Could be tempted to try this?


 Not yet Jason.
I don't have any chocolate wheat.
It will be probably in 2-3 brews time.
If you do brew it I'd be interested to hear how you go.

Beers,
Doc


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## JasonY

If I give it a go it will have to be using choc malt as I can't seem to find choc wheat at the moment either. Will post back if I brew it using a slightly modified grain/hop bill.


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## JasonY

Well I have given it a shot although I am going to have to call it a 95% wheat beer as I couldn't get my hands on any choc wheat. Efficiency suffered a bit, I think my manifold may have come loose after I stirred the sparge when it stuck . I used about 10 handfuls of rice hulls but I think it would have been a good idea to stir it up before i started sparging, it had setlled and set lick a brick. Anyway after a stir and recirc it sparged fine. 

Ended up with 1.050 which is a couple of points low but I can live with it. Will be pitching some 1028 onto it tonight. 

When you look at the hops that this guy used I dont know how he gets 40IBU? According to promash this was going to give me 48IBU so that will do me.

Will be interesting to see how it tastes 



Code:


Grain/Extract/Sugar



   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential EBC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  5.0     0.25 kg.  Chocolate Malt                Great Britain  284.01    936

 88.0     4.40 kg.  JWM Wheat Malt                Australia      334.13      4

  7.0     0.35 kg.  Weyermann CaraWheat           Germany        309.07    120



Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).



Hops



   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 28.00 g.     Centennial                        Pellet   9.10  27.3  First WH

 20.00 g.     Hallertau Northern Brewer         Pellet   9.30  20.0  First WH

 14.00 g.     Hallertau Hersbrucker             Pellet   1.90   1.2  10 min.


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## Doc

Sounds great Jason. Look forward to hearing the taste tests.

Doc


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## JasonY

finally got around to racking this today. Obviously dark as you would expect but seems perhaps a bit cloudier from the wheat. Aroma is somewhat yeasty as can be expected with a malt background perhaps a hint of sourness. Choc malt is fairly dominant in the taste, nice balance with a moderately bitter finish. tasting very nice and I will look forward to tasting it on tap in the next couple of weeks. Haven't brewed many porters so hard for me to contrast but it is certainly looking good.


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## Doc

Thanks for the update Jase.
Ordered some grain today so I can brew this next Saturday.

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc

Now that I've sourced all the ingredients, here is my first draft on my version. Still not 100% sure of the hopping schedule yet though.

Thoughts ?

Beers,
Doc

*Doc's 100% Wheat *

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

23-A Specialty Beer, Specialty Beer

Min OG: 1.010 Max OG: 1.200
Min IBU: 0 Max IBU: 100
Min Clr: 0 Max Clr: 177 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.58
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.47
Anticipated EBC: 47.6
Anticipated IBU: 42.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 29.41 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG 11.52 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
62.7 3.50 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.040 4
25.1 1.40 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.039 15
7.9 0.44 kg. TF Crystal Wheat UK 1.034 100
4.3 0.24 kg. Weyermann Chocolate Wheat Germany 1.035 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20.00 g. Chinook Pellet 12.17 31.3 60 min.
22.00 g. Hallertauer Pacific Pellet 4.20 9.0 40 min.
18.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.50 2.1 10 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1026 British Cask Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 5.58
Water Qts: 17.96 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 17.00 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 3.05 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 72 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 80 Time: 50


Total Mash Volume L: 20.72 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.


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## JasonY

Doc, drinking my one now. The flavour has certainly developed over the past few weeks in the keg. Initially I though it was underbittered but now it seems about right however a little more wouldn't be missed. Quite a dry beer probably due to using 1028. The xtal I think is about right, I can taste a bit of caramel flavour under the choc flavour. The wheat also adds that wheat bite to the beer too.

I wasn't that impressed with it a couple of weeks ago but it is now tasting quite nice 

Your recipe looks quite similar to the one I brewed so I will be interested to see how you find it especially with the cask ale yeast.

=============================


A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

15-B Porter, Brown Porter

Min OG: 1.040 Max OG: 1.050
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 39 Max Clr: 69 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.00
Anticipated OG: 1.054 Plato: 13.27
Anticipated EBC: 45.3
Anticipated IBU: 48.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 3.00 L Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 26.00 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.048 SG 11.80 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.0 0.25 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 284.01 936
88.0 4.40 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 334.13 4
7.0 0.35 kg. Weyermann CaraWheat Germany 309.07 120

Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Centennial Pellet 9.10 27.3 First WH
20.00 g. Hallertau Northern Brewer Pellet 9.30 20.0 First WH
14.00 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 1.90 1.2 10 min.


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 1028


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 5.00
Water Qts: 15.85 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 15.00 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 3.00 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Sparge Temp : 0 Time: 0


Total Mash Volume L: 18.34 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.


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## tdh

Hi Doc, I didn't recognise you with your sunnies on!
You're order left Grumpy's yesterday.

tdh


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## Doc

tdh said:


> Hi Doc, I didn't recognise you with your sunnies on!
> You're order left Grumpy's yesterday.
> 
> tdh
> [post="47590"][/post]​



Cheers tdh. Easy mistake :lol:
Got the grain all weighed out tonight and the 1026 yeast starter stepped up to 2 litres. All go for Saturdays brew day. 
tdh talked me into some rice hulls (which with my mesh screen over the manifold shouldn't make sparging any problem).
Should be a great brew. 

How is yours tasting JasonY ?

Beers,
Doc


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## JasonY

Doc said:


> How is yours tasting JasonY ?



Tasting very nice, the keg is emptying rapidly ... will have to try and get a couple of bottles saved away for one of the perth meets. I have a whole sack of wheat to get through so I think another one of these will be on the cards for winter. Next time i will up the OG a bit (1.050 this time) and hit it with some more hops. 

Look forward to hearing how yours turns out.


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## Doc

Brewed it today. Brewday went well, no probs with the sparge. Here is the recipe.

Beers,
Doc

*Doc's 100% Wheat Porter*

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

23-A Specialty Beer, Specialty Beer

Min OG: 1.010 Max OG: 1.200
Min IBU: 0 Max IBU: 100
Min Clr: 0 Max Clr: 177 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.58
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.47
Anticipated EBC: 47.6
Anticipated IBU: 42.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 29.41 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.046 SG 11.52 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
62.7 3.50 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.040 4
25.1 1.40 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.039 15
7.9 0.44 kg. TF Crystal Wheat UK 1.034 100
4.3 0.24 kg. Weyermann Chocolate Wheat Germany 1.035 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
26.00 g. Northern Brewer Pellet 10.00 33.4 60 min.
16.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.50 7.0 40 min.
18.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.50 2.1 10 min.


Extras

Amount Name  Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1026 British Cask Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 5.58
Water Qts: 18.51 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 17.52 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 3.14 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 72 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 80 Time: 50


Total Mash Volume L: 21.24 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.


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## Doc

Racked the 100% Wheat Porter this morning. Had a small tipple and it is tasting great. 
Thinking this will be another regular beer at my house :lol:

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc

Kegged it last night.
Had a little sample and it wasn't tasting as good as it did when I racked it.
There is a slight aftertaste, that from what I could tell last night may be from using a bit much of the chocolate wheat. 
Of course it could have also been the five different styles of beer I'd had during the day and the two Canadian Club whiskeys I had with dinner :lol:

Will have a couple of cold carbonated ones while watching the Crusaders kick the Warratahs butts on Saturday night and report back.

Beers,
Doc


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## JasonY

Look forward to some more tasting notes Doc. Mine is still going and has gotten even better. Only problem is that when I moved house the beer fridge got a bit cold and it is now overcarbonated and pours like guinness. Will have to depressure and carb again.

Looks like I used a similar amount of choc but not the wheat variety, flavour seems to have smoothed somewhat with age.


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## Doc

JasonY said:


> Doc said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is yours tasting JasonY ?
> 
> 
> 
> I have a whole sack of wheat to get through so I think another one of these will be on the cards for winter. Next time i will up the OG a bit (1.050 this time) and hit it with some more hops.
Click to expand...


Hey JasonY,

Did you end up doing another 100% Wheat brew ?
Been thinking about doing another myself in a few brews time.

Beers,
Doc


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## JasonY

Not yet Doc but I was just thinking yesterday that the all wheat porter or something like that would be a good one to revisit soon. I still have that same sack of wheat.

Was thinking of Hop Burst JPA after the next brew, perhaps I will have a crack at a 100% wheat hop burst just for the sake of something new  I have lots of rice hulls so I reckon it will go alright.

May be time to get through some of that wheat soon. 

EDIT: Brewboard link here


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## frawg

Quick question.... What is a rice hull?


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## Darren

Thats not you is it Ross?

cheers

Darren


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## Tony

rice hulls are used to help with the loow in the mash.

they are as described, rice ... hulls. They are like the barley husks with no grain.

I made a wheat ale last brew day. only used 70% wheat but worked great.

used 70% JW wheat and 30% JW ale maslt

used NZ nelson sauvin hop flowers all the way and brewed with WLP001.

It just stopped bubbling so will taste and report back.

cheers

PS i use crystal wheat ans JW roasted wheat regularly and love tham. Still havnt tried choc wheat but i have tasted it. seems like a good product but i have emough grains to keep 3 brewers happy so will use up what i have first.

cheers


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## Batz

frawg said:


> Quick question.... What is a rice hull?




IMO
Steer clear of them,you don't need them and they are not nice.
But then if you drink wheats perhaps you won't notice :lol: 

Batz h34r:


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## Darren

Just make sure your hulls are food grade. Most hulls these days are designed for pet bedding, mice, rats etc. 

If you are making a wheat a slow sparge is all you need. 

If it does block just stir the bugger. So what! It is a wheat!! 

Doesn't matter if its cloudy!!!


cheers

Darren


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## NRB

Darren said:


> Just make sure your hulls are food grade. Most hulls these days are designed for pet bedding, mice, rats etc.



What difference is there Darren? I would've thought that a rice hull is a rice hull. It all gets boiled anyway.

I've only used them once and I think next time I do, I'll wash them first to remove some flavour/colour contribution.


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## Mr Bond

Ok so I've read all the posts and it seems that a dark style is great(tried and tested).
But has anyone tried a plain ol 100% pale wheat malt<nothing else?
I'm thinking about it as a first up brew for 07(call me wacky :huh: )as Ive got 25kg of the stuff.Plan is to keep it plain and simple

So it'll look like this.

*Experiwheat*



100% JW wheat
1 hop addition to 18/20 IBU
wy 3068

Single infusion 67c.

11 litres only

Comments?


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## Stuster

Water? :unsure:


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## Steve

Bralover - I too have 25kg of Weyermann Wheat. Ive never done an all grain wheat....I was thinking half wheat, half ale. I would prolly bitter more than 18/20. (Too sweat for me) Prolly about 25/30. Chuck in some coriander and dried orange peel and.....no idea what yeast?
Cheers
Steve


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## Mr Bond

Steve said:


> Bralover - I too have 25kg of Weyermann Wheat. Ive never done an all grain wheat....I was thinking half wheat, half ale. I would prolly bitter more than 18/20. (Too sweat for me) Prolly about 25/30. Chuck in some coriander and dried orange peel and.....no idea what yeast?
> Cheers
> Steve



Yeah I've done a few weizens in the last 12 months and settled on 60/40 wheat to barley.Pils, munich and a touch of carapils. This is more about the novelty of an _ALL_ pale wheat. Bittering lower is to accentuate the malt profile and yeast characteristic. Too higher IBU with such a bland malt profile would be out of balance.

Looks like I'm gunna be a guinea pig on this one


*Edit Grammar*


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## Paleman

Steve said:


> Bralover -
> Cheers
> Steve



You havnt been stealing under wear from washing lines have ya Brau !! :blink: 

Good one Stevo.


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## Darren

NRB said:


> What difference is there Darren? I would've thought that a rice hull is a rice hull. It all gets boiled anyway.
> 
> I've only used them once and I think next time I do, I'll wash them first to remove some flavour/colour contribution.




Just saw this,

Obviously hulls of lesser quality would go to pet bedding!! :huh: 

Some pet rice hulls come "scented" so they smell nice in the house  

Just make sure they are clean  

cheers

Darren


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## Mr Bond

I'm going to stick with your slow sparge recommendation of earlier Darren,
A:because its gotta be 100% wheat
B: cos I'm a masochist.


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## Darren

Brauluver said:


> Yeah I've done a few weizens in the last 12 months and settled on 60/40 wheat to barley.Pils, munich and a touch of carapils. This is more about the novelty of an _ALL_ pale wheat. Bittering lower is to accentuate the malt profile and yeast characteristic. Too higher IBU with such a bland malt profile would be out of balance.
> 
> Looks like I'm gunna be a guinea pig on this one
> 
> 
> *Edit Grammar*




Brau,

I have done a few 100% wheats  .

Malted wheat has very little husk. The mash will tend to stick unless you lauter really slow.

High water volumes also help for run-off.

Main point is to drain the tun slower than you would otherwise and she'll be apples.

cheers

Darren


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## Mr Bond

Darren said:


> Brau,
> 
> 
> 
> High water volumes also help for run-off.
> 
> Main point is to drain the tun slower than you would otherwise and she'll be apples.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



Cool thanks for the tips
I'll add another 500ml of water per KG to my ratio and make sure i raise my temps (mash out) b4 sparging.
I havent brewed for awhile so a slow sparge will be a good lesson in patience.


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## Darren

Keep it to a trickle and you should be ok.

yeast selection is your choice. 3333 always served me well.

cheers

Darren


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## Voosher

Brauluver said:


> Cool thanks for the tips
> I'll add another 500ml of water per KG to my ratio and make sure i raise my temps (mash out) b4 sparging.
> I havent brewed for awhile so a slow sparge will be a good lesson in patience.



Personally I love your new sig but aren't you making something of a tit of yourself?


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## Mr Bond

Darren said:


> Keep it to a trickle and you should be ok.
> 
> yeast selection is your choice. 3333 always served me well.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



Yeah I'm an exponent of the ol 3333, its a great strain thats served me well too, but this summer i've got 4 splits of 3068 for a change.
I'll post updates as I go for the curious.

with 25 kg of wheat and this yeast strain it could be a long wheaty summer(life's tough :lol: ) b4 i crank out the TT yeast for a bitter.


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## Mr Bond

Voosher said:


> Personally I love your new sig but aren't you making something of a tit of yourself?



You can Blame Steve and Adam(Paleman) for that.Their goading made me come clean.


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## homebrewworld.com

100% wheat malt recipe.
I would add a hand full of rice hulls (gulls), for piece of mind.
I usually do a 70/30% Wheat and Pale Malt for my Wheaty's

Cheers


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## Mr Bond

*UPDATE*

Did the 100% pale wheat only, yesterday.
mashed @ 66c for 90 mins with a 3.2litres per Kg.
Vorlaufed and cleared very quickly(particles).
Slow sparge with out any probs on first runnings,no sticking at all.
got a little more from the sparge than expected as the wheat only grist doesn't seem to retain as much as a barley grist(no husks to soak it up maybe :blink: ).Packs hard in the tun though.

No hydro(busted)readings, but a trial taste b4 boil proved to be very sweet(mid 1040's from previous tasting and hydro reading comparisons).Talk about rough science  

Anyway its in the fridge bubbling madly away @ 20c,so all is good!

more updates @ bottling and beyond.

Thanks for the tips Darren :beer:


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## Paleman

Definately keep us posted Brau. 

Im interested on how it tastes. Even though ive never tasted a decent one. Its making my mouth water thinking of a nice Wheaty beer.


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## Weizguy

as Gough sez, "top darts" Brauluver.

U make an old wheat-luver proud. Would be great to get tasting notes, and any extra brew tips.

Sounds like U did it all by the book and should expect a great result. Hopefully not XS phenolics as it all wheat. I'm sure U will let us know.

Beerz
Seth


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## Mr Bond

Les the Weizguy said:


> Sounds like U did it all by the book and should expect a great result. Hopefully not XS phenolics as it all wheat. I'm sure U will let us know.
> 
> Beerz
> Seth



Not sure whose book, but anyway notes and updates are my forte, so be attentive!
its a dunkleweizen after this with 60/40 base of wheat and wey Munich II, with a touch of carafa 2 for colour.
This one is crankin out some super sexy banana esters at the mo and has a Krausen that is at a mark 5 litres above the wort @ 18 c...Whooeee....


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## Weizguy

Brauluver said:


> Not sure whose book, but anyway notes and updates are my forte, so be attentive!
> its a dunkleweizen after this with 60/40 base of wheat and wey Munich II, with a touch of carafa 2 for colour.
> This one is crankin out some super sexy banana esters at the mo and has a Krausen that is at a mark 5 litres above the wort @ 18 c...Whooeee....


I meant the book of experience. You know...mash low, thin mash, slow lauter, ferment under 20C.

Today, I'll be pitching a 1 litre starter of W3068 into a batch of Dunkelweizen (with 300g Carafa I, oops). Should be good. Will stick to the rule of 30, this time, and see if it works OK.

Seth


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## Mr Bond

OK ,Update time!

Bottled today after 13 days in primary.It went crazy and threw a *BIG* fluffy krausen or the first 5 days and then settled down to a gentle ,but longer than anticipated(steady) fermentation(10 days). the last 3 were spent @ 4c to aid flocculation.Bottled straight from primary,as is my method.First bottle was cloudy but the rest were clear in the tube.

Tasting at bottling(18c): the apprentices(7 and 5) were asked first off for an opinion.# 1 says that he got a bananaery fruity taste,that # 2 agreed was there as well.# 2 also commented on the tangy finish after swallowing.Neither thought that it was a bitter finish.

My impressions are a dominant banana up front on the nose.banana up front on the palate with a faint hint of other esters( maybe clove and vanilla) in the background.Body is medium to thin (without carbonation) and tending towards dry, without any astringency.Finish is tart in a wheaty sense with a faint lemony tang from the hops.Bitterness (20 IBU) is OK, but up front.At this stage it is shaping up as a nice hot day Quaffer,but seems a little out of balance without the barley malt to "sweeten" the flava profile and flesh out the body a little.2 of the 15 longnecks were primed with light DME instead of dex to see if any obvious differences are noticable.

Tomorrow is dunkleweizen day!

More updates to come as carbonation occurs.


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## Finite

Brauluver said:


> OK ,Update time!
> 
> Bottled today after 13 days in primary.It went crazy and threw a *BIG* fluffy krausen or the first 5 days and then settled down to a gentle ,but longer than anticipated(steady) fermentation(10 days). the last 3 were spent @ 4c to aid flocculation.Bottled straight from primary,as is my method.First bottle was cloudy but the rest were clear in the tube.
> 
> Tasting at bottling(18c): the apprentices(7 and 5) were asked first off for an opinion.# 1 says that he got a bananaery fruity taste,that # 2 agreed was there as well.# 2 also commented on the tangy finish after swallowing.Neither thought that it was a bitter finish.
> 
> My impressions are a dominant banana up front on the nose.banana up front on the palate with a faint hint of other esters( maybe clove and vanilla) in the background.Body is medium to thin (without carbonation) and tending towards dry, without any astringency.Finish is tart in a wheaty sense with a faint lemony tang from the hops.Bitterness (20 IBU) is OK, but up front.At this stage it is shaping up as a nice hot day Quaffer,but seems a little out of balance without the barley malt to "sweeten" the flava profile and flesh out the body a little.2 of the 15 longnecks were primed with light DME instead of dex to see if any obvious differences are noticable.
> 
> Tomorrow is dunkleweizen day!
> 
> More updates to come as carbonation occurs.



 Hows the head on that bad boy mate?


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## Mr Bond

Finite said:


> Hows the head on that bad boy mate?



Bottling was slow due to foaming from nucleation.

Will be interested to see if the DME offers any more head or flava over the dex.


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## Mr Bond

OK.....6 days in the bottle here goes a taste.
Satisfying hiss when i crack it.

Pours with a big fluffy head and a very pale gold colour.
Aroma is typical wheat ,all ester .banana ,bubblegum and a faint whiff of cloves.
Haze is minimal for a wheat.
Mouthfeel is medium with a wheaty dryness in the finish, but still round enough to satisfy.
Banana/bubble gum flavas dominate up front with a zesty/tangy wheat flava on the finish.

All in all I would call this a stereotypical weizen in a schofferhofer sense.Looks smells and tastes so similar,except the finish is a little more tart and quenching.
Will be interesting to see what a couple of weeks conditioning adds to it.
Totally happy with the result(so far),and pleased to see that like most weizens young and fresh is always a pleasure.


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## neonmeate

this sounds great. i like the idea of a really tart wheaty beer. maybe a good idea for a berliner weisse?


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## Mr Bond

neonmeate said:


> this sounds great. i like the idea of a really tart wheaty beer. maybe a good idea for a berliner weisse?



It could very well be.
Its a weizen through and through ,just without that barley sweetness and fullness,and the wheaty tang amplified by 25%.


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## Mr Bond

Did an evaluation yesterday as it's 14 days in bottle(prime time for a wheaty IMO)

Not much has changed from earlier tastings.If any thing it is a tad drier with a tangier finish.
It is quite clear that the barley component of a weizen adds body and sweetness to balance the tart wheat character and is prolly needed in a %age no less than 25%.Some of my tastiest ones in the past also contained a little light munich.
I tried the one primed with Light DME and it had a smoother sweeter flava(although very faint).

All in all this has been a worth while experiment,that if i was to repeat I would up my mash temp to 68c in an attempt to add some more body.

Dave


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## Mr Bond

Thought I'd add a foto


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## Paleman

Brauluver said:


> Thought I'd add a foto




Looking good Dave. I'm jealous  

How much more time in the bottle before it reaches it's drinking prime ? 

Another month, or less ? Looks like you've got yourself a Quaffing Beauty. Hopefully we have ourselves an Indian Summer, long live the Wheaty's :beerbang: 

Edit : Just read your second post above mine, two weeks ya reckon for prime drinking. ya better get quaffing then :chug: 

Enjoy :super:


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## tangent

that looks delicious
your descriptions have my mouth fanging for a beer


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## johnno

I am brewing one of these tomorrow as well.

I'm not sure how I will like it as I bottled the 80% wheat 20% barley wheaty today and the runnings tasted fresh and crisp but finished very dry.

Time will tell I suppose.


Type: All Grain
Date: 1/02/2007 
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Brewer: 
Boil Size: 34.30 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Wheat Malt (3.0 EBC) Grain 100.0 % 
42.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 18.6 IBU 
1 Pkgs German Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3333) Yeast-Wheat 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 % 
Bitterness: 18.6 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 5.3 EBC Color: 

cheers
johnno


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## Mr Bond

Yeah, dry and thin is prolly a good description.

It's still worth it as an experiment though!

I've given a tally to a schofferhofer luver(occasional K,n K brewer) to try,so the feedback will be interesting.


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## Ross

I'm brewing this one tomorrow:

Brye wheat 
American Wheat or Rye Beer 

Type: All Grain
Date: 2/02/2007 
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 35.31 L 
Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
1.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 17.5 % 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 17.5 % 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (13.8 EBC) Grain 17.5 % 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 17.5 % 
1.00 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 17.5 % 
0.50 kg Carawheat (Weyermann) (98.5 EBC) Grain 8.8 % 
0.20 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 3.5 % 
50.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 20.3 IBU 
40.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (10 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 
1 Pkgs American Ale (CraftBrewer #US-56) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 % 
Bitterness: 26.2 IBU 
Est Color: 35.7 EBC 

Mashing at 68c single batch sparge.

cheers Ross


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## lonte

so what about 100% and a *lager *yeast? I've put the following recipe (abbreviated) together ... thoughts?

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.75 kg Wheat Malt Pale (2.0 SRM) Grain 95.0 % 
0.25 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Grain 5.0 % 
10.00 gm Galena [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 15.5 IBU 
25.00 gm Hersbrucker [3.80%] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU 
2 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager


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## Ross

lonte said:


> so what about 100% and a *lager *yeast? I've put the following recipe (abbreviated) together ... thoughts?
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 4.75 kg Wheat Malt Pale (2.0 SRM) Grain 95.0 %
> 0.25 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Grain 5.0 %
> 10.00 gm Galena [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 15.5 IBU
> 25.00 gm Hersbrucker [3.80%] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
> 2 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager



looks nice - was tempted to go the lager yeast myself, but decided i wasn't going to tie up the fermenter for so long with an experimental brew...

cheers Ross


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## Weizguy

lonte said:


> so what about 100% and a *lager *yeast? I've put the following recipe (abbreviated) together ... thoughts?


OK, so I read this and I'm wondering if we're going off-topic here.

We were initially talking about a weizen style. In Germany (and Zwickel will prob confirm this) wheat beer should not be brewed with a lager yeast. Apart from the loss of weizen flavours, the Beer Tax and/or Beer Purity laws forbid it, IIRC.

To paraphrase Dr Seuss: "I would not, could not with a lager yeast. I could not, would not Sam I am...".

Oh, and Ross ( I prob can't help coming off as a b!tch here), your recipe is not a 100% wheatie, and prob should go to the "What are U brewing" thread.

Whew! I feel better now. How about U guys?

Seth out


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## Stuster

Hold on a minute, Lesseth. I'm sure somebody mentioned using different yeasts earlier in the thread.  

Ah, here we are. :lol: 



Weizguy said:


> Yep. Doesn't seem to suit a wheat yeast.
> Prob a bit heavy for my Summer tastes, but may well get a run for Winter with a German or London Ale yeast (or London III or ESB).
> Thanks for the feedback.
> It goes to show that wheat isn't just for weizen.
> 
> Seth



Not lagers I know, but....

Ross' isn't 100% wheat, but it's still a no-barley beer.

About the lager yeast, I'm with Ross. If you want something clean, why not use the standard US56 and see how it goes before tying yourself in to a full lager schedule on something that may or may not be worth it. On the other hand, experimentation is half the fun.


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## johnno

johnno said:


> I am brewing one of these tomorrow as well.
> 
> I'm not sure how I will like it as I bottled the 80% wheat 20% barley wheaty today and the runnings tasted fresh and crisp but finished very dry.
> 
> Time will tell I suppose.
> Type: All Grain
> Date: 1/02/2007
> Batch Size: 27.00 L
> Brewer:
> Boil Size: 34.30 L Asst Brewer:
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
> Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
> Taste Notes:
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 5.00 kg Wheat Malt (3.0 EBC) Grain 100.0 %
> 42.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 18.6 IBU
> 1 Pkgs German Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3333) Yeast-Wheat
> 
> 
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
> Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
> Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 %
> Bitterness: 18.6 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l
> Est Color: 5.3 EBC Color:
> 
> cheers
> johnno



Just collected all the runnings from this and will boil it up about 4. after I have picked one of the juniors up from school.

Threw a couple of handfuls of rice hulls in there and I was suprised I did not get a stuck sparge.

cheers
johnno


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## warrenlw63

Johnno! Whata ya doing mate? :lol: 

100% Wheaty?? Keep that well away from the coeliacs sufferers. :blink: 

Warren -


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## Tony

homebrewworld.com said:


> 100% wheat malt recipe.
> I would add a hand full of rice hulls (gulls), for piece of mind.
> I usually do a 70/30% Wheat and Pale Malt for my Wheaty's
> 
> Cheers




Will i ever live this typo down  


What next....... a 700 IBU 100% rye malt beer brewed with bakers yeast........mmmmmmmmmm sounds interesting

I do like the idea of the 100% wheat though.

May give it a go one day.

cheers


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## DJR

100% RYE! That would take all the rice gulls in the world Tony!!

Johnno, good to see that the 100% wheat works fine with just a bit of rice hulls, no need for any glucanase enzyme or anything like that. If one were fly sparging they could add in some barley malt to coat the bottom of the mash tun when lautering as well, but that sort of defeats the purpose, having a 5% barley wheat beer


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## pint of lager

Every time I see rice hulls written down, I have a chuckle as the term rice gulls leaps to mind. Was a great typo.

May your sparges always run.


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## johnno

pint of lager said:


> Every time I see rice hulls written down, I have a chuckle as the term rice gulls leaps to mind. Was a great typo.



same here.

But i thought Tony was doing it for a stir :unsure: .




Only prob so far is that i was going for 1034 preboil gravity but I only got 1029.

Didn't whip that wheat enough.  


cheers
johnno


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## Tony

It was a genuine typo........ i cant type and watch the screen at the same time and mostly im too lazy to go back and correct myself.

I always call them rice gulls now, its kind of catching 

cheers


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## Adamt

I actually thought for a while they WERE called rice gulls. <_<


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## Tony

I know this is off topic but its a funny story related to that 

When i was doing a lot of competetive shooting we used tubes of grease to lubricate the moving matal parts on the bolt and locking lugs.

It was the stuff you use on gears in fishing reals and had "REAL GREASE" written on the tube.

me and my friends beingas we are, decided to nickname it "FAKE GREASE"

we called it nothing but for years and one day the local gun shop owner caught on to something strange that had been happening in his shop.

People had been comming in for the last year or so asking for "FAKE GREASE"

He had been telling them there was no such thing and turning them away 

we still called it fake grease after that though 

cheers


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## johnno

Bottled mine last Saturday and had a sample last night.

Still needs to carb up a bit but it is coming along very well.

Crisp and refreshing with some slight cloves in the finish. A bit thin on the mouthfeel, but I like that in a brew. I was aming for a 4.2 ABV but finished at 3.7 which makes it go down very easy.

I have run out of wheat yeast and need to get some more. This is one beer I will be making more of.

cheers
johnno


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## Mr Bond

OK Trendsetters, thought I'd have another shot at a wheaty in this realm only a dunkleweizen.
Not a true 100%'er as I used weyerman specialties for the colour(but near enough).

*Friday 13th Dunkle*

96% JW wheat
3% Wey Caramunich II
1% Wey Carafa II

19 IBU

This was my first attempt at a step mash as well and was quite easy just a little longer.
I pulled 2 litres of first runnings and boiled them down to 500 ml for some caramelisation(and it smelt and tasted sensational) and added it back to the main boil 10 min before flame out to cheat on the 90 min boil .
Ready to be pitched this morning with a 3068 slurry.

Dave


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## Weizguy

Mr Bond said:


> OK Trendsetters,


I recognise that catch-phrase. So, is this really what Rodney Rude is doing in his retirement? :lol: 


> thought I'd have another shot at a wheaty in this realm only a dunkleweizen.
> Not a true 100%'er as I used weyerman specialties for the colour(but near enough).


Dave, is this to minimise smarty comments from self-appointed off-topic "monitors", such as me? :lol: 


> *Friday 13th Dunkle*
> 
> 96% JW wheat
> 3% Wey Caramunich II
> 1% Wey Carafa II
> 
> 19 IBU
> 
> This was my first attempt at a step mash as well and was quite easy just a little longer.
> I pulled 2 litres of first runnings and boiled them down to 500 ml for some caramelisation(and it smelt and tasted sensational) and added it back to the main boil 10 min before flame out to cheat on the 90 min boil .
> Ready to be pitched this morning with a 3068 slurry.
> 
> Dave


Did the mash include a protein rest and a 67 or 68 C step. I find that Dunkelweizens benefit from a moderate body.

The recipe certainly looks good, and I can almost smell and taste the concentrated boil portion. Let us know if you retained the desired flavour when combined/diluted with the main wort.

Best of luck, and pls report your results here.

I have not yet done a 100% wheat beer, as I managed to get a stuck sparge with my Gose, after an overnight acid rest/mash. Only 60% wheat and the beer hasn't cleared yet and it's been bottled for weeks. I had read that this style produces a lot of sediment.

Seth


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## tangent

Step mashed this on Friday the 13th as well Mr.Bond

HE-111

Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
15B-German Wheat/Rye Beer-Dunkelweizen

Min OG: 1.044 SG Max OG: 1.056 SG
Min FG: 1.010 SG Max FG: 1.014 SG
Min IBU: 10 IBU Max IBU: 18 IBU
Min Color: 35.9 EBC Max Color: 59.8 EBC


Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 33.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 26.50 l
Volume Transferred: 26.50 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 26.50 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 26.50 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.045 SG Expected OG: 1.056 SG
Expected FG: 1.013 SG Apparent Attenuation: 75.0 %
Expected ABV: 5.6 % Expected ABW: 4.4 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 16.3 IBU Expected Color: 33.5 EBC
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 % Approx Color:	
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins 
Fermentation Temperature: 22 degC 


Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
German Wheat Malt 3.00 kg 44.8 % In Mash/Steeped
Australian Dark Munich 1.50 kg 22.4 % In Mash/Steeped
German Dark Wheat Malt 1.00 kg 14.9 % In Mash/Steeped
Australian Barrett Burston Galaxy 1.00 kg 14.9 % In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Wheat Malt 0.10 kg 1.5 % In Mash/Steeped
German Chocolate Wheat Malt 0.10 kg 1.5 % In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
German Tettnang 4.5 30 g Loose Whole Hops 60 Min From End
German Tettnang 4.5 14 g Loose Whole Hops 25 Min From End


Other Ingredients
Ingredient	Amount	When


Yeast
Wyeast 3056-Bavarian Wheat


It's technically not dark enough but I wanted to play it safe being the first time I've used choc wheat.


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## Mr Bond

Les the Weizguy said:


> Did the mash include a protein rest and a 67 or 68 C step. I find that Dunkelweizens benefit from a moderate body.
> 
> 
> 
> Seth



No protien rest LTWG.I followed zwickel's regime as posted HERE,same as the Weyerman site regime only with out the P rest.

Will definitely report back.


----------

