# Grainfather brew day vs BIAB



## moodgett (20/7/15)

Hi all,

Hope im not opening a can of worms here.

Looking at potentially selling my grandfather system due to the amount of time and how fiddly the system in my opinion is to use.

I really want to do full boils and i think biab in an urn would simplify things for me. Just seeing what a typical biab looks like time wise
Cheers


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## takai (20/7/15)

This is my BIAB brew, presuming 60min mash and 60min boil

0:00 fill urn with strike water and start heating to temp
0:05 go to garage to weigh and mill grain
0:20 come back up to hot strike water and mash in with bag
1:20: Mash out, lift bag into straining bowl and set urn to boil temp (varies on mash time)
1:30: At boil
2:30: Boil ended, whirlpool and immersion chiller begin
3:00: at pitching temp


Takes maybe 30min to clean up, including disposing of spent grain and hops etc. That said my recirculation system on the BIAB (like QLDKevs) takes maybe 15min more all up)


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## welly2 (20/7/15)

moodgett said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Hope im not opening a can of worms here.
> 
> ...


Interesting you say that it's fiddly. Not that I've brewed with mine yet but I got the impression part of the appeal of the grainfather was how simple it was. Certainly I can't see how it would take any longer than a typical 3v brew session but if you want to simplify your brew day, you probably can't get much easier than BIAB for all grain.


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## Moad (20/7/15)

How much do you want for it?


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## Hippy (20/7/15)

Mate I've done both and I don't think BIAB is really any quicker than the grainfather.
I prefer a grainfather brew day over a BIAB as I think a stainless malt pipe and a couple of other bits and pieces are a lot easier to clean than a biab bag.
Then there's the added advantage of having more control to be able to step mash thereby producing better quality more repeatable beers.
The sparge step really doesn't take that long when you do a Beta rest at 45 degrees for 10 minutes and throw in some rice hulls.


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## danestead (20/7/15)

takai said:


> This is my BIAB brew, presuming 60min mash and 60min boil
> 
> 0:00 fill urn with strike water and start heating to temp
> 0:05 go to garage to weigh and mill grain
> ...


That's incredibly quick. I wish my brew days were that short. The best I did was a double brew day in about 9hrs. That included a bit of corner cutting here and there.

Back on topic, I've got a Braumeister which I believe is very similar in operation to a grandfather. I've also done biab and would of thought the effort would be the same on a grindfather but with better control as compared to biab


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## n87 (20/7/15)

Im about 4 hours BIAB for 50L. about 7 back to back for 100L


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## tugger (20/7/15)

4 hours here too on the grainfather. 
Once you know how to use it properly it's easy as and the results are outstanding.


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## Bribie G (20/7/15)

Couple of myths around BIAB:

you can't do a step mash and cleaning the bag is a PITA

I always do a "step" mash, either a single infusion for UK and APA styles then ramp up to mashout
or a hochkurz mash at 62, 70, then mashout.
If the urn has a rack to keep the bag off the element, switch on full power then simply pump up and down with a paint stirrer for about five minutes between rests then re lag the urn.
Because you are going to heat up to boil anyway, then the various temperature ramps come "for free"

I don't use a bag, I gave up on them years ago and just use a circle of voile, lasts forever and there's no seams to weaken as well as hanging in a perfect teardrop shape. I throttle mine with a hangmans noose and use a double pulley off a skyhook.
To clean I take "bag" out to veg patch, undo noose, dump grain, flap flap flap the sheet then rinse or stuff into a 3L jug of perc and leave overnight then rinse. Takes less than two minutes.

Another quick step is, because I have a fairly new Hot water system, I use hot 55 degree tapwater that quickly heats up to strike temp. Manning Valley water uses chlorine gas so there's none of that remaining in the HWS.
Brew hours don't really bother me, being retired and empty nesters but if I really want to put the skates on I have an over the side immersion heater that makes short work of ramping and can crank out a double back to back batch in six hours.

My brew day is sub 4 hours as I can be doing cleanup etc while the boil is happening then the only real job is to hose out the urn afterwards.

Nothing against Grainfather by the way, sounds like a good system.


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## bronson (20/7/15)

After I dump my grain i give my grain bag a quick rinse and hang on the clothes line( with residual grain inside) and let it dry.
Once dry the grain drops out of the bag pretty easy then i follow up with a sanitize before next brew. Simplez


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## bradsbrew (20/7/15)

That reminds me, I need to clean the grainfather malt pipe from probably three weeks ago. BIAB bag probably wouldnt handle my laziness like stainless steel can. After 3 weeks the smell should be gone h34r:


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## simmo1972 (20/7/15)

I'm about 4 1/2 hours BIAB with a 90 min Mash / Boil and with no chill using a Crown 40l Urn, biggest delay on mine is 50 mins to strike temp, I use filtered water but might try straight from hot water tap now we have a new tank.

It then takes 30 mins from strike to boil.


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## moodgett (21/7/15)

welly2 said:


> Interesting you say that it's fiddly. Not that I've brewed with mine yet but I got the impression part of the appeal of the grainfather was how simple it was. Certainly I can't see how it would take any longer than a typical 3v brew session but if you want to simplify your brew day, you probably can't get much easier than BIAB for all grain.


Thats fair enough mate. I'm mainly talking about all the bits and pieces involved with the system. I'm just thinking biab is more for me than the gf. Mind you the gf works fantastic.


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## moodgett (21/7/15)

Moad said:


> How much do you want for it?


 ill get back to you on that Moad. Youre in newy arent you?


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## kaiserben (30/7/15)

welly2 said:


> Interesting you say that it's fiddly. Not that I've brewed with mine yet but I got the impression part of the appeal of the grainfather was how simple it was. Certainly I can't see how it would take any longer than a typical 3v brew session but if you want to simplify your brew day, you probably can't get much easier than BIAB for all grain.


Yeah, I actually came from BIAB brewing (albeit only in a 19L pot, not a bigger urn which would've made things slightly more bearable by ending up with bigger batches than the 9.5L at full volume mash I was pulling) to a Grainfather and would never go back. So the same reasons as the OP but in the complete opposite direction.


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## HBHB (30/7/15)

bradsbrew said:


> That reminds me, I need to clean the grainfather malt pipe from probably three weeks ago. BIAB bag probably wouldnt handle my laziness like stainless steel can. After 3 weeks the smell should be gone h34r:


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## earle (30/7/15)

Simmo1972 said:


> I'm about 4 1/2 hours BIAB with a 90 min Mash / Boil and with no chill using a Crown 40l Urn, biggest delay on mine is 50 mins to strike temp, I use filtered water but might try straight from hot water tap now we have a new tank.
> 
> It then takes 30 mins from strike to boil.


I fill my urn the night before and set it up with a timer to start the next morning an hour before I want to mash in. Doesn't take long the night before and gets rid of that waiting.


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## contrarian (30/7/15)

With any BIAB, grainfather, braumeister or similar system the factors that add to the length of a brew day are going to be fairly similar.

Time to heat strike water
Mash times and ramp times in a step mash or to mash out.
Ramp time to boil
Boil length
Chilling/filling cubes
Clean up.

The main areas you can speed up a brew day are the ramp times and the clean up times. Ramp times are basically determined by the total volume you are trying to raise the temperature of and the amount of heat you can put into it. I have a gas burner with a high flow reg that could potentially get over 3 degrees per minute but I would also get fewer brews per gas bottle so I'm normally happy to run it lower and get 1.5 degrees per minute.

With an urn you can speed it up with an over the side element or similar.

With clean up I normally tip the bag into the chicken yard, hang on the line and then hose off. Every couple of brews I put it through the wash with some sodium perc. This happens during the boil which is also when I rinse and sanitise cubes.

Normally I clean my kettle the next day when it has cooled down and every few months I pull the ball valve apart and give it a really good clean.

I also usually brew while I'm doing other things so it is not uncommon for me to do a longer mash while I take the kids to the beach, mow the lawn etc or have a brew going while I am watching the footy. That means I am not as worried as the time from start to finish, it's more about the timing of the critical moments like mash in and coming up to boil where I need to be nearby.

I like the idea of a braumeister but one of the things that has put me off so far is the cleaning. I'm sure it isn't that bad and mainly needs a rinse which would be a small pay off for some of the other features but am pretty happy with my set up at the moment.


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