# Why Re-culturing Coopers Commercial Yeast?



## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

*Hey guys

This has probably been answered about a million times before but I can't find the answer.

I want to know what's the benefits of re-culturing coopers yeast? Does it taste better?

I was thinking of doing it for my next Pale Ale home brew, how many Pale Ale 375ml stubbies worth of yeast should I be reculturing for a standard 23L brew?

Does the recultivated yeast take the place of the normal Sachet of yeast found the tins of extract? Or do you use them both?*



*Please help I can't find an aswer to these questions only methods of how to do it.*


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## .DJ.

the benefits are that you cant buy that yeast... its the only way to get it. It is not the same as the kit yeast and will give a totally different beer...


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## Cube

Taste. The yeast is a certain strain. You want an authentic coopers pale ale, use their yeast instead of a sachet. Beware, if you haven't got temp control forget it. From my experience brewing over 17 deg gives off a large amount of banana flavour. My first one was brewed at 20 deg and it was a banana milk shake beer.... not to my liking at all.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Cube said:


> Taste. The yeast is a certain strain. You want an authentic coopers pale ale, use their yeast instead of a sachet. Beware, if you haven't got temp control forget it. From my experience brewing over 17 deg gives off a large amount of banana flavour. My first one was brewed at 20 deg and it was a banana milk shake beer.... not to my liking at all.



Thanks Mate for info.

Ok, so how much of the cultivated yeast do I need? and does this mean I do not use the kit yeast?


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## bignath

OP:



Cube said:


> You want an authentic coopers pale ale, use their yeast instead of a sachet.



Wont get anywhere near a CPA without the recultured yeast.


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## QldKev

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> *Hey guys
> 
> This has probably been answered about a million times before but I can't find the answer.
> 
> I want to know what's the benefits of re-culturing coopers yeast? Does it taste better?
> 
> It tastes 100 times better in a CPA clone
> 
> I was thinking of doing it for my next Pale Ale home brew, how many Pale Ale 375ml stubbies worth of yeast should I be reculturing for a standard 23L brew?
> 
> 4 based on method Coopers released - Refer below
> 
> Does the recultivated yeast take the place of the normal Sachet of yeast found the tins of extract? Or do you use them both?*
> 
> Do not use the normal yeast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Please help I can't find an aswer to these questions only methods of how to do it.*




Note: I follow basically the same method, but I use LME and pour all of it into 1 larger bottle.

*Coopers method for re-culturing yeasties 
*
_Coopers, encourage home brewers to use the yeast from naturally conditioned Coopers ales. There are numerous documented techniques, with varying levels of complexity, for re-activating the yeast in naturally conditioned beer. The method described below may leave some readers, experienced in growing yeast cultures, aghast. “What! No stir plate, no malt, no alcohol swabs, no nutrient, no way! However, for Coopers yeast, it works...

Method
1. Buy a six pack of Coopers Original Pale Ale and place upright in the fridge for about a week for the yeast to settle.
2. Mix about 600ml of boiling water and 4 tablespoons of dextrose/sugar in a pyrex jug, cover with cling-wrap and leave to cool in the fridge for about 30mins.
3. Open 4 bottles and decant the beer into a jug, leaving behind the yeast sediment - about a couple of centimetres.
4. Pour the sugared water equally into each bottle, cover with cling-wrap and secure with a rubber band.
5. Shake the bottles then place them in a dark spot at a temperature in the mid 20’s.
6. Give the bottles a shake in the morning and at night to keep the yeast in suspension.
7. After around 2 to 3 days the yeast should become active and begin forming a head.
8. Pitch the active yeast into a brew immediately or store in the fridge for about a week. Just remember to pull it out of the fridge to warm for couple of hours prior to pitching.

Some additional points to keep in mind;
- start with more yeast by using all 6 bottles,
- buy beer with the freshest yeast (ie. latest “Best After” date),
- lower alcohol content is better (mild ale or pale ale),
- it’s okay to hold the culture at slightly higher temps to promote a quicker reactivation,
- one sanitised vessel (approx 1 litre) may be used rather than separate bottles,
- make sure the culture smells okay before pitching,
- buy another 6 pack for each culture and
- don’t forget to drink the decanted beer 

_


edit: Reference for the info 
http://www.coopers.com.au/the-brewers-guil...osts&t=1876


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

QldKev said:


> Note: I follow basically the same method, but I use LME and pour all of it into 1 larger bottle.
> 
> *Coopers method for re-culturing yeasties
> *
> _Coopers, encourage home brewers to use the yeast from naturally conditioned Coopers ales. There are numerous documented techniques, with varying levels of complexity, for re-activating the yeast in naturally conditioned beer. The method described below may leave some readers, experienced in growing yeast cultures, aghast. "What! No stir plate, no malt, no alcohol swabs, no nutrient, no way! However, for Coopers yeast, it works...
> 
> Method
> 1. Buy a six pack of Coopers Original Pale Ale and place upright in the fridge for about a week for the yeast to settle.
> 2. Mix about 600ml of boiling water and 4 tablespoons of dextrose/sugar in a pyrex jug, cover with cling-wrap and leave to cool in the fridge for about 30mins.
> 3. Open 4 bottles and decant the beer into a jug, leaving behind the yeast sediment - about a couple of centimetres.
> 4. Pour the sugared water equally into each bottle, cover with cling-wrap and secure with a rubber band.
> 5. Shake the bottles then place them in a dark spot at a temperature in the mid 20's.
> 6. Give the bottles a shake in the morning and at night to keep the yeast in suspension.
> 7. After around 2 to 3 days the yeast should become active and begin forming a head.
> 8. Pitch the active yeast into a brew immediately or store in the fridge for about a week. Just remember to pull it out of the fridge to warm for couple of hours prior to pitching.
> 
> Some additional points to keep in mind;
> - start with more yeast by using all 6 bottles,
> - buy beer with the freshest yeast (ie. latest "Best After" date),
> - lower alcohol content is better (mild ale or pale ale),
> - it's okay to hold the culture at slightly higher temps to promote a quicker reactivation,
> - one sanitised vessel (approx 1 litre) may be used rather than separate bottles,
> - make sure the culture smells okay before pitching,
> - buy another 6 pack for each culture and
> - don't forget to drink the decanted beer
> 
> _




Thanks QLDKEV, you have answered all my questions. Cheers Mate


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## Liam_snorkel

Cube said:


> Taste. The yeast is a certain strain. You want an authentic coopers pale ale, use their yeast instead of a sachet. Beware, if you haven't got temp control forget it. From my experience brewing over 17 deg gives off a large amount of banana flavour. My first one was brewed at 20 deg and it was a banana milk shake beer.... not to my liking at all.


ruh roh. I've got one fermenting at 19deg at the moment.

Good thing I like bananas.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Liam_snorkel said:


> ruh roh. I've got one fermenting at 19deg at the moment.
> 
> Good thing I like bananas.




Just another question whilst i'm on this topic.

How long will the recultivated yeast last for, if stored correctly etc?

After fermentation is completed and its been bottled can you use the yeast cake for another brew down the track? Will the yeast cake have the same postive tatse affects as reculivating the yeast from the bottles or is this a waste of time?


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## mwd

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> Just another question whilst i'm on this topic.
> 
> How long will the recultivated yeast last for, if stored correctly etc?
> 
> After fermentation is completed and its been bottled can you use the yeast cake for another brew down the track? Will the yeast cake have the same postive tatse affects as reculivating the yeast from the bottles or is this a waste of time?



If your sanitation is up to scratch the harvested yeast should be O.K. for a few months kept in the fridge but fresh is best.

Yes you can reuse the yeastcake from the fermentation vessel no problem. The recommendation is to only reuse yeast up to about 6 times before it becomes mutated and changes character. I tend to reuse yeast only about three times before starting with a fresh batch.

Edit: Check out this thread by Wolfy on how to do it.Linky also the reusing yeast thread in Kits and Extracts thread.


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## Yob

Hay Jarvo, did you read though the links I provided you on the Coopers site? These are all the same questions to which you have been given answers links to research.

Wolfy's Rinsing Yeast in Pictures

Rinsing Yeast - The Brewing Network

Stepped Yeast Calculator

Tight arse Stir Plate

and countless other links are available.

Have a search through the multitudes of topics and have a read, No offence intended but understanding cannot be handed to you, you need to research it.





Search Function, top right

ed: spilleng


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## QldKev

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> Just another question whilst i'm on this topic.
> 
> How long will the recultivated yeast last for, if stored correctly etc?
> 
> After fermentation is completed and its been bottled can you use the yeast cake for another brew down the track? Will the yeast cake have the same postive tatse affects as reculivating the yeast from the bottles or is this a waste of time?




I keep the coke bottles up to 6 months, and they taste fine. Even if you limited it to 2-3 months, it saves a lot of mucking around re-growing it often.

On a yeast slant, I've used on after 2 years. But then you have to step them up and stuff around, so I don't use slants anymore.

QldKev


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## ploto

I recently re-cultured coopers bottle yeast for a CPA-style beer, too easy. I started the dregs from 3 bottles in a 200ml dme/water mix, then stepped it up to 1l and pitched that when it was ready.

Follow the links provided, pay attention to cleanliness and also have a read through this discussion topic for the article: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=17276


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## Wolfy

.DJ. said:


> the benefits are that you cant buy that yeast... its the only way to get it. It is not the same as the kit yeast and will give a totally different beer...


Actually you can buy the yeast (in liquid form), but you're right that it's a different yeast-strain to the dry-yeast sachets provided in kits.
Typically Coopers-recultured yeast provides very distinctive flavours that are considered essential to the 'Australian Pale Ale' beer style.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

iamozziyob said:


> Hay Jarvo, did you read though the links I provided you on the Coopers site? These are all the same questions to which you have been given answers links to research.
> 
> Wolfy's Rinsing Yeast in Pictures
> 
> Rinsing Yeast - The Brewing Network
> 
> Stepped Yeast Calculator
> 
> Tight arse Stir Plate
> 
> and countless other links are available.
> 
> Have a search through the multitudes of topics and have a read, No offence intended but understanding cannot be handed to you, you need to research it.
> 
> View attachment 52773
> 
> 
> Search Function, top right
> 
> ed: spilleng




Yes I did, call me an idiot or whatever you will but somthings for me were still left unanswerd and I was unsure. I was always taught at school even if I researched and If I still wasn't sure to always ask for help.

I thought I would ask the helpful people in this foum to the specific questions I needed answered. And I appreciate their feedback!!

I use the search button everytime before I ask a question in the forums and in google. This time I needed more help, who knows the info that other people have given me today may help somone esle in the end. 

Sorry if I upset you by asking this question  

Cheers


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Tropical_Brews said:


> If your sanitation is up to scratch the harvested yeast should be O.K. for a few months kept in the fridge but fresh is best.
> 
> Yes you can reuse the yeastcake from the fermentation vessel no problem. The recommendation is to only reuse yeast up to about 6 times before it becomes mutated and changes character. I tend to reuse yeast only about three times before starting with a fresh batch.
> 
> Edit: Check out this thread by Wolfy on how to do it.Linky also the reusing yeast thread in Kits and Extracts thread.



Thanks Mate mighty helpful!!!


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

ploto said:


> I recently re-cultured coopers bottle yeast for a CPA-style beer, too easy. I started the dregs from 3 bottles in a 200ml dme/water mix, then stepped it up to 1l and pitched that when it was ready.
> 
> Follow the links provided, pay attention to cleanliness and also have a read through this discussion topic for the article: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=17276




Cheers buddy, I appreciate the help


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## np1962

.DJ. said:


> the benefits are that you cant buy that yeast... its the only way to get it. It is not the same as the kit yeast and will give a totally different beer...






Wolfy said:


> Actually you can buy the yeast (in liquid form), but you're right that it's a different yeast-strain to the dry-yeast sachets provided in kits.
> Typically Coopers-recultured yeast provides very distinctive flavours that are considered essential to the 'Australian Pale Ale' beer style.


You certainly can buy this yeast, in fact I have just received a shipment today that was manufactured 27/2/12.
Visit My Website - WLP009 Australian Ale
Platinum Strain, only available March/April
Cheers
Nige


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## Yob

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> Sorry if I upset you by asking this question



not upset, just annoyed that you asked the same question and got the same answers and it doesnt seem you want to do any research for yourself.

Research is great, then trial the methods given to you, then put them into practice when you are confident you have the methods down pat. 

You have asked the same question before (on multiple forums) and got approx the same answers (and certainly the same links to information) 

so Im just a little confused.

sorry for coming off a little rough, but seriously.

Read. Listen. Practice. Do.

Yob


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## manticle

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> Yes I did, call me an idiot or whatever you will but somthings for me were still left unanswerd and I was unsure. I was always taught at school even if I researched and If I still wasn't sure to always ask for help.
> 
> I thought I would ask the helpful people in this foum to the specific questions I needed answered. And I appreciate their feedback!!
> 
> I use the search button everytime before I ask a question in the forums and in google. This time I needed more help, who knows the info that other people have given me today may help somone esle in the end.
> 
> Sorry if I upset you by asking this question
> 
> Cheers



His words were encouraging you to search and research rather than calling you an idiot and to prove it, he provided you with several, very useful links which will help answer your further questions.


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## Dazza88

g


iamozziyob said:


> Hay Jarvo, did you read though the links I provided you on the Coopers site? These are all the same questions to which you have been given answers links to research.
> 
> Wolfy's Rinsing Yeast in Pictures
> 
> Rinsing Yeast - The Brewing Network
> 
> Stepped Yeast Calculator
> 
> Tight arse Stir Plate
> 
> and countless other links are available.
> 
> Have a search through the multitudes of topics and have a read, No offence intended but understanding cannot be handed to you, you need to research it.
> 
> 
> Search Function, top right
> 
> ed: spilleng




this should be a sticky. timely. i really enjoyed two cpas before heading out to see ryan adams at qpac. wanted to brew a batch.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

iamozziyob said:


> not upset, just annoyed that you asked the same question and got the same answers and it doesnt seem you want to do any research for yourself.
> 
> Research is great, then trial the methods given to you, then put them into practice when you are confident you have the methods down pat.
> 
> You have asked the same question before (on multiple forums) and got approx the same answers (and certainly the same links to information)
> 
> so Im just a little confused.
> 
> sorry for coming off a little rough, but seriously.
> 
> Read. Listen. Practice. Do.
> 
> Yob




I agree with what you are saying mate 100%. I do a lot of research but I'm very green compared to expert home brewers like yourself. 

Sometimes you need someone with the expertise to give you a hand. I was totally confused with the links and wasn't sure on a number of topics. I just needed someone to guide me thru, and I'm very thankful that some people on the forum answered my question without getting annoyed with me.

Is there a beginner section on here or another forum where people can ask questions like this without annoying anyone, cause Im happy to go there next time


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

manticle said:


> His words were encouraging you to search and research rather than calling you an idiot and to prove it, he provided you with several, very useful links which will help answer your further questions.



I know his intentions were good, I never doubted that.

I didn't say he called me an idiot, but I was pointing out that thats what people probably think I am by still asking questions when I have been provided with links.

Yes I was provided with links and yes I searched but I needed someone to talk to.


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## Nick JD

I've found it's always cheaper (and better) to buy yeast that to reculture it.

If you can buy CPA yeast, do.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Nick JD said:


> I've found it's always cheaper (and better) to buy yeast that to reculture it.
> 
> If you can buy CPA yeast, do.




Thanks mate


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## Yob

Nick JD said:


> I've found it's always cheaper (and better) to buy yeast that to reculture it.



many people collect ,harvest, store, culture and propagate yeast for various justifiable reasons which need no mention... and I cant really count myself in that crew yet as Im only beginning to consider the real advantages to a yeast bank type setup... and building my equipment to suit...  I fkin love the builds  

I agree It's more work to reculture but for the right reasons its the result you are after for the particular beer yeah?

I disagree that its better to buy it than to re-use it, re-using yeast rocks, hence the link to Wolf's excellent article on rinsing yeast... 

Though I have a personal brewery variance on those methods, for me it certainly gave me *K* of confidence and scope for experimentation and enabled me to get it all "dialled in".. 

The link to the brewing network podcast also has great info and helped me to understand process and practical application with understanding.. and TBH I must have listened to that thing a dozen times and it still gets better each time... little bits you miss each time yeah?

Mr Malty is stand alone awesomeness in conjunction with the above, I frikkin love calcing my Viability...

I still mean no _Dissin _to the OP, but stand by Read. Listen. Practice. Do apply.

Peace


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## ploto

In other words just have a go and if worst comes to worst, you'll know better for next time.

Once you grasp the basics there's no better way to learn than through hands-on experience.


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## Mikedub

I remember my first Coopers re culture, I had some pretty strong fusels - followed by some pretty blinding hangovers, I think i must have seriously under pitched, might face my demons and have another attempt


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## manticle

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> I agree with what you are saying mate 100%. I do a lot of research but I'm very green compared to expert home brewers like yourself.
> 
> Sometimes you need someone with the expertise to give you a hand. I was totally confused with the links and wasn't sure on a number of topics. I just needed someone to guide me thru, and I'm very thankful that some people on the forum answered my question without getting annoyed with me.
> 
> Is there a beginner section on here or another forum where people can ask questions like this without annoying anyone, cause Im happy to go there next time



I understand all this and agree. I fully believe you should be able to ask questions, no matter how silly they may sound to someone else - as long as you try to help yourself, I think people should be willing to help you. If they aren't, they should shut up and not post.

I hate the 'do a search ffs' crap. I think if you're going to bother replying with that, you might as well bother replying with the answers/suggestions or at least a link.

Because yob didn't just say 'do a search ffs' but provided several links and a politely phrased suggestion about research and learning, I thought his original post deserved more. He did provide very useful help.

I am the moral captain of my ship and I'll sail it to hell. They'll have to pry my dead cold hands off the wheel.


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## Kai

I used to culture coopers yeast frequently in my partial mash brewing days. I found it made an excellent range of ales. 

Never had excessive banana from it, typically fermenting in the low 20's. I would get some, but it would be coupled with strong diacetyl during the first month of bottle conditioning and both would subsequently subside.

My favourite part of the procedure was the reculturing. Buy a sixer of pale ale, pour the yeast into a flagon along with some carefully prepared starter wort, and drink the leftover supernatant.


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## Nick JD

iamozziyob said:


> I disagree that its better to buy it than to re-use it, re-using yeast rocks, hence the link to Wolf's excellent article on rinsing yeast...



I didn't say not to re-use it; I said don't bother culturing it if you can buy it.

How many of us reculture US05 from bottle conditioned beer? That's my point - why would you bother?


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## Yob

Nick JD said:


> why would you bother?



totally agree..


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## Yob

Mikedub said:


> I think i must have seriously under pitched,



I did this too, resulting beer was frikkin 'orrible... I went away and did a shed load of research following that experience


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## Wolfy

Nick JD said:


> I didn't say not to re-use it; I said don't bother culturing it if you can buy it.


Since it's a limited release its not always available or fresh, and there are no local WhiteLabs suppliers in Victoria (that I know of), and its free.
Hence, *if *your procedures are sound, your yeast will be just as good, and much cheaper than buying it.


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## Nevalicious

Wolfy said:


> Since it's a limited release its not always available or fresh, and there are no local WhiteLabs suppliers in Victoria (that I know of), and its free.
> Hence, *if *your procedures are sound, your yeast will be just as good, and much cheaper than buying it.



Exactly. 

6 pack of CPA, $13 maybe??

Whitelabs culture... $13 plus postage (if no local alternative available)

6 stubbies of beer for free as I see it. I know of atleast one Adelaide local who has recently used the Whitelabs Strain in question to great success. If reculturing CPA yeast isn't your bag, buy it


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## the_new_darren

I still dont understand a "use the search button" answer given by some people here..

If it a newb question that has been answered before and you know that then dont reply at all.

After all, in the last 10 years EVERY single question has been asked and answered!!!!

By analogy...why even come AHB when you could get any answer for any HB question WITH GOOGLE ALONE.

To the OP, I find that culturing Coopers yeast from the bottle can be variable. Its important to sanitise the bottle (and let some sanitiser get under the lid) prior to opening the bottle, pour into a glass (dont drink the beer from bottle) and use the "dregs: in your starter.

cheers

tnd


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## manticle

the_new_darren said:


> I still dont understand a "use the search button" answer given by some people here..
> 
> If it a newb question that has been answered before and you know that then dont reply at all.
> 
> After all, in the last 10 years EVERY single question has been asked and answered!!!!



I agree with a caveat: if you aid people's searches with a link or with help to use the search function properly (eg typing in the right keywords and characters in the default search or pointing out the google/ahb search bar) then it's worth replying. If the reply is simply 'search function' then save yourself the hassle.

I also agree - definitely don't drink from the coopers bottle before reculturing. I think the instructions from coopers on how to reculture their yeast are pretty decent (unlike the instructions on their kit tins)


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## Bizier

Just a word to people thinking of reculturing for the first time, if you are reading about things like re-pitching six times, keep in mind that sanitation is paramount. After six potential exposures to contaminants (if you need to have your yeast open to the air to collect it), mutation is probably much less of a worry than infection. I would recommend less than six, and to always pitch on the high side so that you have a large number of yeast cells to out-compete any potential nasties.

Another simple thing to keep in mind is to ensure your yeast is totally ready before you are adding it to your wort. If you want to get similar results to a fresh vial of White Labs Australian Ale + starter, you will need to grow new viable cells from your original bottle yeast, and then I would suggest a larger second starter to achieve proper yeast pitching rates.

I guess the point I am making is that if you want to have an opinion on a yeast strain, you need to evaluate it under optimal conditions. Sanitise everything, minimise open air transfers and make necessary ones very quick, and ensure you have an adequate amount of healthy yeast to do the job.


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## RobboMC

In my opinion it's a bad time of year to be trying reculturing for the first time. Think of the thermal history of that 6 pack since it left the factory. Possibly sat on a delivery truck in the Adelaide heat 1 or 2 40 deg days. In the eastern states it's travelled across the Hay Plain, another day or 2 or 40 deg heat.

I know it's been a cool summer and you may have success with reculturing, but you also run the risk of buying a 6 pack full of dead yeast. August/Sept is a much better time for this sort of thing as long as you get beer with best after dates of June/July/August.


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## ploto

RobboMC said:


> In my opinion it's a bad time of year to be trying reculturing for the first time. Think of the thermal history of that 6 pack since it left the factory. Possibly sat on a delivery truck in the Adelaide heat 1 or 2 40 deg days. In the eastern states it's travelled across the Hay Plain, another day or 2 or 40 deg heat.
> 
> I know it's been a cool summer and you may have success with reculturing, but you also run the risk of buying a 6 pack full of dead yeast. August/Sept is a much better time for this sort of thing as long as you get beer with best after dates of June/July/August.



Point taken and what you say makes sense, but I don't think it's enough of a problem to write off the idea entirely. I just successfully re-cultured CPA yeast for the first time, I was very thorough with procedure and had no problems; the starter smelt fine and the brew kicked off straight away. This was with three bottles from the old silver cartons, and purchased from Dan's (Boss, we've run out of Toohey's dry! - Put that Coopers in the sun!).


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## Nick JD

I recultured CPA yeast once by pouring off the beer from a longneck and filling it back up with 60g of LDME and cooled boiled water out of the coffee kettle. Put some gladwrap on the top and left it in the cupboard.

Went into a 14L batch so it wasn't too much of an underpitch. 

To be honest though, CPA isn't the world's best beer. POR and esters and mud? I wish we had a better "style" to offer the world...


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## mikec

NigeP62 said:


> You certainly can buy this yeast, in fact I have just received a shipment today that was manufactured 27/2/12.
> Visit My Website - WLP009 Australian Ale
> Platinum Strain, only available March/April
> Cheers
> Nige



I just did my first BIAB, a CPA, and I was looking at that yeast just last week. The description sounded very, shall we say, familiar!
But I figured a 6-pack of Coopers is about the same price, may as well drink the free beer, heh heh.
It's piss easy to culture the yeast, and as I am seeing this week, works well.


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## Nevalicious

The last lot of yeast I recultured was from part of a box I got given back in May 2011. The slab has been sitting in my bar since and pretty much forgotten about. It took a little longer and I used the dregs from a sixer to get it going, but it went fine. Fresh is obviously best, but old works just as well


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## hwall95

Bump..

I'm currently have some coopers yeast culturing, mixed around 70g of wheat malt extract with 700mL of water, brought to boil, cooled then poured into sanitised glass flagon and then added dregs from two coopers bottles. I was just wondering whether this will propagate enough yeast for 23L brew that I plan to do in a few weeks or whether 1 week prior to the brew I should add some extra malt extract to get the yeast growing again?

Cheers


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## JDW81

I'd say you've been a bit ambitious with your starter size. I've re-cultured a few times and my process usually starts with a 200mL starter in my small flask with the yeast from 6 coopers stubbies. I give this 48 hours then step to 400mL, then up to 1L, then up to 2L over the course of ~5 days depending on progress.

The biggest problem with reculturing from commercial beer is you can't guarantee the viability of the yeast, hence the importance of starting with small volumes and stepping so you don't stress the yeast.

In my experience if you don't start small and build up, then you end up with stressed yeast, which don't ferment the starter or wort as well as you'd like, resulting in stalled ferments and high FGs +/- odd flavours. I've actually stopped reculturing as I don't think it is worth the effort (based on my reculturing attempts).

If your sanitisation is good, then you can leave it for a week to ferment out. If it tastes and smells ok (and isn't sweet, indicating unfermented sugar) then pitch away, otherwise pitch that spare pack of US05 you (should) have in the fridge.

JD


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## hwall95

Okay if I do again ill start smaller then. I just based the starter size on a tutorial I found in my research but smaller makes more sense - less stress. 

Yeah I normally just use us05 or notto however I wanted to get the distinct coopers pale ale/sparkling ale taste so I thought I better try to culture their yeast. So far it's going well, nice bubbles and obvious yeast growth which I have to keep swirling back into suspension due to the cool nights. I poured a small amount into a glass and it had a distinct coopers flavour and smells fine so no obvious infection I can detect. 

I think I'll cold crash the flagon once the yeast is finished fermenting and then take it out a week before the brew (inspect for any infection) and then restart the yeast to ensure they're viable and alive prior to entering the brew.

Cheers for the advice


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## JDW81

hwall95 said:


> I wanted to get the distinct coopers pale ale/sparkling ale taste so I thought I better try to culture their yeast.


Totally agree on the coopers yeast flavour, however I found I was getting inconsistent results from reculturing so I decided to not bother any more.

Hope it works out better for you.

JD


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## hwall95

JDW81 said:


> Totally agree on the coopers yeast flavour, however I found I was getting inconsistent results from reculturing so I decided to not bother any more.
> 
> Hope it works out better for you.
> 
> JD


Yeah fair enough, thanks for the advice. I'm aiming to ferment 16-18 to prevent banana flavours, but apart from that it should be a good learning experience.


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## jkhlt1210

I would like to give this a go I reckon


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## Bribie G

I find that three longnecks of Coopers Sparkling does the job.

Firstly, put the bottles in the fridge for a few days so that the body of the beer is crystal clear, then very carefully pour into pint glasses while you drink. Tough job but somebody has to do it.
Clingwrap each longneck / tallie as you consume and leave a couple of cm of beer in each bottle.

Rather than stepping up I take the middle path and make up around 400 ml of 1040 wort from LDME in a 500ml Schott laboratory bottle (a 600ml clingwrapped passata bottle would be as good), swirl the beer bottles and tip the yeast dregs into the wort. It usually takes me about 3 days to breed up at 20 degrees for a good pitch . I've never had any problems with the subsequent fermentation or beer quality and have a couple of gongs on the wall for AusPA's in competitions.

The trick is to use three tallies or six stubbies, and to get as much yeast out of the bottles by storing until the beer itself is VB bright.

Possibly the biggest reward is to end up with heaps of yeast cake that you can collect and store in the fridge under sterile water and crank out subsequent brews without having to molest the bottle shop every time you want to make an AusPA. Subsequent generations can end up quite estery - more pear if you can keep the brew under 18 degrees.


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## barabool

Excuse me if I'm am a million years behind the topic - (it got hard to read after a while)
If you buy a kit- use the yeast in a starter. Better to have the new yeast in a starter than old *kit* yeast in a re-starter (IMHO)
If you lash out and get a smack pack or a tube then yes, better likely hood to re-use, especially if you get a great beer.
I believe it has to do with the quality of the original yeast rather than using a crap yeast over and over again. 
I still believe the experimentation on different yeasts at different times in an unexplored area of home brew but to get consistency - kit yeast should not be recycled. Get a good quality yeast to do that.
Cheers


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## Yob

if you buy a kit, throw out the yeast or better yet, put it in the boil...

_*...always*_ use a decent yeast, what is under the lid aint a decent yeast...


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## menoetes

I've grabbed myself a few CPA tallies to give it a shot. Hopefully I'll soon be adding Coopers commercial to my slowly growing yeast collection.

Buying Coopers Pale Ale is such a good deal, for $16 (at my local bottle shop) you get 3 tallies (2.25lts) of a rather nice beer to drink, support an independant aussie brewery, get a new strain of yeast and three strong tall bottles for re-use.

What a bargain


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## hwall95

Well this is what my looked like after a woke up this morning: 





So far it's been 6 days so I'm pretty happy with the yeast growth. I don't own a stir plate so basically just have to swirl the yeast back into suspension morning and night.


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## menoetes

A few weeks back I re-cultured the slurry at the bottom of a couple of Coopers Pale bottles and used it in my own pale ale partial-mash with some Falconers Flight and Galaxy hops.

Man, a lot of that famous Coopers taste comes from the yeast doesn't it? It is distinctly recognisable and happens to go very nicely with the fruitier hops. Jeepers but that beer is nice and will be eminently drinkable after another few weeks in the bottle.


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## hwall95

Yeah same here, very recognisable taste from the yeast. I fermented my English pale ale at 16.5 degrees and it still threw a few fruity esters as well which goes quite pleasantly which the beer.


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## RobboMC

Reculturing the yeast works quite well at this time of year. But in the summer and autumn remember that in the eastern states that beer
has crossed the Hay Plain in 40+ degree heat.
Chances are that the yeast is almost or completely dead.

As previously mentioned always look for fresh stock at the bottle shop. 

Sometimes I find it easier just to buy a decent yeast sachet for my $6 and drink the longneck completely. Just lazy.

Of course if you really want the Coopers yeast then go for it. All part of the fun of brewing.


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## menoetes

Hey guys, I find myself returning to this topic again... does anyone know the range of temperature tolerance for this yeast?

Once again I found myself in a hurry at the end of a brewday and pitched it at a pretty high temp. Now I'm at work and had a chance to rethink this decision I regret it but I pitched at 28'c.

I know my brewfridge and I know I can rely on it to cool the wort down to around 20'c in the next 5 - 6 hours but I'm more concerned about having killed or damaged the yeast. I know these beasties are pretty hardy and real work-horses but 28'c is pretty damn high.

Anyone got any info or a official profile on this yeast? I think if I dont see action in the next 3 days I'm pitching a pack of US-05 I have spare.


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## RagingBull

menoetes said:


> Hey guys, I find myself returning to this topic again... does anyone know the range of temperature tolerance for this yeast?
> 
> Once again I found myself in a hurry at the end of a brewday and pitched it at a pretty high temp. Now I'm at work and had a chance to rethink this decision I regret it but I pitched at 28'c.
> 
> I know my brewfridge and I know I can rely on it to cool the wort down to around 20'c in the next 5 - 6 hours but I'm more concerned about having killed or damaged the yeast. I know these beasties are pretty hardy and real work-horses but 28'c is pretty damn high.
> 
> Anyone got any info or a official profile on this yeast? I think if I dont see action in the next 3 days I'm pitching a pack of US-05 I have spare.


Others can weigh in but try for 15-16degC anything higher i find too estery - pears and even more banana under stress.


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## MartinOC

^ Wot he said.

Coopers yeast WILL tolerate higher temps, but it throws all those esters if you go too high initially.

Remember, yeast will produce most of the esters & phenolics (something I actually enjoy from time to time!) in the 1st 24 hours of fermentation, then spends the rest of it's lifecycle trying to clean-up after itself.

If you can get the pitching temp down, any increase in temp after that won't have as dramatic effect as the initial.


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## menoetes

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've got it in my brewfridge with another batch working with American II yeast so once itgets down to 20'c for a few hours I'll likely drop it down to 17'c for the sake of both yeast strains.

I not too concerned about the banana flavors, it's already a pretty fruity brew (and might improve it) but I was more concerned about whether the coopers commercial yeast would kick off at all given the high pitching temp. I'd hate to see a good yeast go to waste.


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## elcarter

My friends are reporting far better and closer clones form WLP 009 than the cultured yeast from the bottle.

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp009-australian-ale-yeast 

On the coopers tour the lad said he's pretty confident it's very close if not the coopers strain.


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## mofox1

Jeez... Coopers yeast is a BEAST. Pitched Saturday night, it's already around 1.008, can't tell any closer because it's carbed up so much in primary.

Only pitched about half of a 3 litre starter...

Taste from the hydro sample is great and what I was hoping for in a Coopers clone... Better than the bottles I recultured the yeast from, tho I suspect that was due to crappy handling of the bottles.


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