# Another Final Jamil Show....



## kevo (17/1/09)

Hi all....

Just checking the Brewing Network site, there'll be another 'final' Jamil Show, well three it would appear...

Re-doing the cider show, malt liquor and Australian Sparkling Ale.

It's this coming Monday I think, 7pm - in the US - no idea what time that is here.

here's the details 

THE JAMIL SHOW
CIDER AND MALT LIQUOR 
MON, JAN 19TH @ 7:00PM PST

Jamil and Jon Plise return one last time to clear the air and cover just a few more things. First, by popular demand, the crew will redo Cider to pick up where the information left off during the final episode celebration that took place in the studio. Cider makers fear not, we've got one great Cider show lined up for you to make up for it. And while we're at it, why not cover Australian Sparkling Ale? And finally, just to shake things up (and make good on a bet probably), The Jamil Show will teach us all how to brew Malt Liquor. Yes you read that right...

Tune in live on Monday and get your Jamil Show fix once again! 


Kev


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## Jye (17/1/09)

Someone should offer to be the Australian expert and ring up with 'the' recipe and discuss the style. Im going to vote for AndrewQLD since I know he brews this style a lot.


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## Franko (17/1/09)

Cool the last cider show was a bit of a shocker.


Franko


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## Korev (17/1/09)

Hi Guys,

JZ has asked me to be the "expert" so if you have any tips recipes etc an how to brew a definitive Aussie Sparkling Ale please let me know in this thread before next Monday.

Cheers
Peter


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## tim_mortensen (17/1/09)

Korev said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> JZ has asked me to be the "expert" so if you have any tips recipes etc an how to brew a definitive Aussie Sparkling Ale please let me know in this thread before next Monday.
> 
> ...



Hi Peter,

I "formulated" this recipe after discussions with Tony Wheeler, who gave the talk about the style and its history at the AHB conference recently, and is probably the guru on this style, other than Mr Coopers. Actually, Jamil will probably have most of what I'm about to mention, since he was there of course!

It's a very simple recipe, which makes sense, it was formulated over 150 years ago. The theory was to take bland Australian malt, coarse high alpha acid hops, and make a beer that can stand up to hoppy Pale Ales, such as the Burton imports of the time, (and later Pilseners once refrigeration arrived). With no late hopping, the style relies on its yeast for character and fruitness, so the Coopers yeast is integral to this style. This means that the malt has to be very restrained for the yeast character to come through. So assertive hop character is also out of style.

It should be a pale beer of good clarity, as it was trying to compete with the Burton imports. The Coopers cloudiness was more due to the Adelaide water than by design. They use Reverse Osmosis water now, and it is a perfectly clear pour. For water treatment you just want moderate sulphate water, about 300ppm. So if you are using Melbourne water, which is absent of Sulphate (at least where I live), then you will want to add about 0.5g/litre brewing water.

If you check the FG of a Coopers sparkling, you will get 1.003 - 1.004, so you need to aim for a dry finish. So mash low, single infusion about 63C, for about 60 - 90 mins, 3L/kg water:grain ratio. No sugar is needed, the Coopers yeast is highly attenuative, over 80%.

Hops should be Pride of Ringwood of course, aim for 40 to 45 IBU, bittering addition only. The dry finish and the fruitness of the Coopers yeast means that the bitterness is neither harsh nor strong. It should taste like a nice hoppy beer.

For yeast, recultured Coopers to achieve the same character. Some people prefer the Pale ale to reculture, as it is a lower abv than the Sparkling, but I prfer to drink the Sparkling, so that is what I use. For a 23L batch, build up a 1-2L starter.

Fermentation should be at basic ale temps, about 18 - 22C. The yeast throws a lot of banana esters if you ferment too high, so I prefer the lower end, 18-20C. Others prefer it at the higher end at 22C. You are aiming for a beer of about 5.8% abv, so an OG = 1.045, FG = 1.005. Bottle conditioning is traditional of course.

This recipe also placed at Vicbrew this year, and was well regarded in the Vic Xmas case swap as well.

Australian Pale Ale:

97% Australian Pilsener malt, such as Joe White
3% light crystal, such as Joe White caramalt (about 60 EBC).
40 to 45 IBU POR, 60min bittering addition only
Calcium Sulphate 0.5g/L brewing water
Recultured Coopers yeast, 2L starter.

Single infusion mash 63C, 90min

Ferment at 18-20C. When finished, prime and bottle.


Cheers,
Tim


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## Wardhog (17/1/09)

mortz said:


> <Buttloads of real high quality info about Cooper's ale...>



 

No wonder I thought your case swap beer was a dead ringer for the one you can buy. Sounds like you've done a Masters in brewing Australian Pale Ales.


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## Duff (18/1/09)

mortz said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> I "formulated" this recipe after discussions with Tony Wheeler, who gave the talk about the style and its history at the AHB conference recently, and is probably the guru on this style, other than Mr Coopers. Actually, Jamil will probably have most of what I'm about to mention, since he was there of course!
> 
> ...



Great post. Will give this a go.

Thanks.


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## Korev (18/1/09)

Thanks Tim,

From my research I agree with what you have stated - however I believe there are a range of grists that can be used as a legitimate interpretation of the style.

What is your view of the colour? The IBU values seem high to me?!

The AABC style guidelines are silent about the EBC/SRM value just mention gold to amber colour.

Cheers
Peter


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## [email protected] (19/1/09)

Having tasted Tim's Aussie Pale Ale quite a few times, while the IBU might seem high, it doesn't really come through in the taste. This is probably due to the low FG, as the finished beer doesn't have the maltiness or sweetness to bring the bitterness through to the palate in a big way, so I guess he has (correctly in my opinion) compensated for that in his recipe.

Cheers
Mal


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## brendo (19/1/09)

mcook said:


> Having tasted Tim's Aussie Pale Ale quite a few times, while the IBU might seem high, it doesn't really come through in the taste. This is probably due to the low FG, as the finished beer doesn't have the maltiness or sweetness to bring the bitterness through to the palate in a big way, so I guess he has (correctly in my opinion) compensated for that in his recipe.
> 
> Cheers
> Mal



+1 - I have sampled Tim's Aussie PA and it is a cracker...


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## peas_and_corn (19/1/09)

The Jamil show is ending


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## kabooby (19/1/09)

mcook said:


> Having tasted Tim's Aussie Pale Ale quite a few times, while the IBU might seem high, it doesn't really come through in the taste. This is probably due to the low FG, as the finished beer doesn't have the maltiness or sweetness to bring the bitterness through to the palate in a big way, so I guess he has (correctly in my opinion) compensated for that in his recipe.
> 
> Cheers
> Mal



I have found the opposite. Bigger maltier beers can handle higher IBU's as the malt sweetness counters the bitterness. Maybe the water has something to do with it?

Kabooby


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## tim_mortensen (19/1/09)

Sorry Peter,

Have been busy, did not have a chance to check back to the thread before the show. For colour I aim for gold; amber I find is too dark for style, and you tend to get marked down on that. As for other grists to make this beer, I'm sure there are, but this is what I have found has worked for me so far.

As for the IBU's, they may seem high, but the low FG provides the dry finish that means the bitterness does not seem too high. As the AABC guidlines state: Medium to high bitterness, up to 45 IBU.

With previous attempts, I found that with the low FG, the beer was too sweet at lower IBUs.

Kabooby, yes, bigger beers can definitely handle high IBU's for the reasons you state. However, trying to counter the residual malt sweetness from a beer with a high FG with high bitterness can result in a beer that is cloying in my experience. If you look at the FG's of say good commercial English IPA's, they have a low FG, as low as 1.008 for some examples. They are generally high in IBU's, but refreshing and easy to drink. If you look at say, the James Squire IPA, the FG is about 1.018. So the beer has a full body, and they have given it a good whack of hops, but you can only drink a couple of them. They end up too cloying for me.

I tend to think of it as bitterness and sweetness being additive on the taste. So if you try and balance an overly sweet beer with a high level of bitterness, the taste buds just get overwhelmed. 

I think the water plays a big part. Look at beers such as a German Pilsener, CSA, English (Burton) IPA. All these beers are (generally) highly hopped beers coming from regions with a moderate to high level of calcium sulphate, which tends to provide a nice sharpness to the bitterness that goes well with a drier finishing beer.

Anyway, all food for thought. I'll have to have a beer and download the final show now.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Barry (20/1/09)

Good Day
The new cider show is now playing live. Followed by Aussie Pale Ale and Korev, then malt liguor show.
Also it has been officially announce that JZ and Mike are going to have a clone brewing show to replace the style show..


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## peas_and_corn (20/1/09)

that's interesting- I presumed that Brew Strong will be weekly. Sounds interesting.


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## sinkas (20/1/09)

kewl, I havent gotten in to brewstrong yet, not enough stupid jokes for me, JZ sounds like a muffler on a racing engine.


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## Bizier (20/1/09)

Awesome stuff. I was reading the Australian judging guidelines the other day and thinking that this should be in there.

Maybe suggest that northern brewer is a good sub for POR if the US guys can't get their hands on the real stuff.

Can someone finalise what time EST this will be on? On an Aussie public holiday, I am going to have to get all of my live Jamil listening drinking done in a short amount of time.


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## Barry (20/1/09)

It is on live now. The cider show is nearing the end, next will be the Aussie Pale Ale.


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## Bizier (20/1/09)

)*(^@#(*$^(*^#$(*^#$(*^#$(*^#$%(*^#$(*^#$(*^$(*^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am at work


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## Korev (20/1/09)

Hi Guys,

Just finished being interviewed - should go to air - podcast about 2 weeks

Thanks to Tim for the recipe.

My notes and research attached View attachment 090120_AABC_3.1_Australian_Pale_Ale.pdf


Cheers
Peter


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## Duff (20/1/09)

The Sparkling Ale section of this thread deserves its own thread for easy finding in the future.

Any mod able to do so?


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## kabooby (20/1/09)

I was able to tune in Live for a while 
Nice work Peter

Kabooby


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## Korev (21/1/09)

Thanks 

Cheers
Peter


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## Bizier (21/1/09)

I couldn't tune in or chat for the life of me, work mac said no.

I am really looking forward to the podcast. Congrats Korev.


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## scoundrel (21/1/09)

where can i find these podcasts, and shows when they are on?


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## mika (21/1/09)

www.thebrewingnetwork.com Look for 'The Jamil Show'


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## Korev (3/2/09)

Aussie Sparkling Ale now available on podcast

Click here!

Korev


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## crazyhorse (24/3/09)

Enjoyed the segment Peter! Notice you are in Oatley too.

Nathan


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## white.grant (30/7/09)

I expanded my range here and am grateful for the thread, podcast and advice. For the record -

Grain bill as per the instructions, landed a wort at 1056 after a dry mash. Cubed for a few weeks

Took a culture from a couple of longnecks of CSA - sat it on the stir plate for a few days and pitched a week ago (last thursday evening). 

Friday evening - had definite signs of fermentation - which was great as it was my first bottle yeast culture.

Saturday morning - I'm cleaning yeast off the floor of the shed - wow aggressive bugger but I did stint on headspace. I set the heatpad to 22c and watch.

Tonight - hydro sample at 1008. Drink the sample and its just lovely, - its got a soft rich malt profile with bitterness - fruity and rich, wasn't expecting that, thought it would need a bit of conditioning to settle the PoR. 

Add some carb and this will be awesome. Much better than I had hoped. 

Stoked  

cheers

grant


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