# Highest % of Caramalt in all grain brew?



## Stu Brew (21/5/16)

So im pretty noob to all grain and i just ordered two batches of 1kg caramalt and 5kg of golden promise milled and mixed together. 

I have done the first one nice colour but people are saying its going to be really sweet......I upped the IBU since hops is something im not short on to try and counteract. 

Just wondering essentially if anyone has been this silly on the caramalt % and how it worked out? Being that im sitting on around 20% caramalt.....

Cheers


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## Mardoo (21/5/16)

My first all-grain had 20% crystal 60. It was...chewy. Haven't gone above 10% since, which is the general advice I've received, and still almost never go above 5%.


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## manticle (21/5/16)

500g in a 20ish litre batch is the most I've done.
Beers turned out tasty but these days I prefer between 100g and 250.

This is for uk and american pale types.


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/5/16)

Stu Brew said:


> I have done the first one nice colour but people are saying its going to be really sweet.....


Those people who said that are correct


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## Bribie G (21/5/16)

Not necessarily sweet as in sugar, dextrins aren't really sweet but you should get more body and "chewiness".

Some of the Cara range can be used at quite high levels, when I was in NZ I attended a lecture by Thomas Weyermann hizzoner hisself who said that Carapils can be used up to 30% in mid strength lagers. Caramalt to me is a pretty bland grain, I'd put it at just a stage further than Carapils in the colour and flavour list.

Should be ok, enjoy the foaming :lol:


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## Stu Brew (21/5/16)

It was bairds medium crystal. It'll be getting force carbed and kegged in about a week or two. I have the IBU count saying its going to be about 90....hard to tell with wet hops though. I calculated that at 2% AA


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## Markbeer (21/5/16)

What was the starting gravity?

90 ibu is a lot. I think you will be surprised either way.

You can go 20% on crystal malts but it depends on the recipe and style and the attenuation of the yeast. A low alcohol beer could have such a makeup. 

The highest I have tasted was 25% xal, was mashed low and had fruit added.

Simple sugars can offset the chewiness/sweetness for your next batch.





Stu Brew said:


> It was bairds medium crystal. It'll be getting force carbed and kegged in about a week or two. I have the IBU count saying its going to be about 90....hard to tell with wet hops though. I calculated that at 2% AA


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## spog (21/5/16)

At an estimated 90 IBU no probs,you won't taste anything other than bitterness .


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## Blind Dog (21/5/16)

Just over 25% crystal malts for a Sarah Hughes ruby clone-ish is the highest I've been. Awesome beer. Not sweet but lots of dried fruit, and you need a spoon


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## technobabble66 (22/5/16)

90 IBUs calc'd off fresh hops at 2%?!? I'm guestimating that's the equivalent of ~10% if they were pellets. What hops are you using? If they're US-type hops (like chinook, etc) you might be underestimating your bitterness. So the %-age of crystal may be the least of your problems 

FWIW, i think it won't be "sweet". It'll be more like an astringent bitterness. I find crystal to be a particular burnt-sugar, bitter, astringent flavour. In small quantities it'll blend synergistically to produce the classic caramel & sweet flavours. In larger quantities the negative elements come out a bit more - like the astringency, etc. This will also mellow with time. So i'd guess you'll find it a bit nasty for the first few weeks, then after several weeks it'll blend more nicely to perhaps be quite tasty. All this depends on what your tastebuds pick up - it could be arse or awesome after 4 or 12 weeks! 
That's just the flavour though. In terms of mouthfeel, yeah, you're probably going to find it pretty chewy.

It's all good. The noob will learn a lot here.


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## Alex.Tas (24/5/16)

Stu Brew said:


> So im pretty noob to all grain and i just ordered two batches of 1kg caramalt and 5kg of golden promise milled and mixed together.
> 
> I have done the first one nice colour but people are saying its going to be really sweet......I upped the IBU since hops is something im not short on to try and counteract.
> 
> ...


Few days late, but hopefully this may help you or others. 

#36 from brew dog - *Black Dog* has 15.7% caramalt. they also add in crystal 150 on top of this, so the total crystal content is 24.9% - that's right a quarter of the grain bill.

I haven't made it yet, its next on my to-do list.
I emailed Brewdog about the percentage of crystal and they assured me, the 60 IBUs would balance out the quantity of caramalt.
I also ran it past a mate who works at a local brewery. He said i shouldn't be concerned about that quantity of caramalt with the stipulated bitterness.
If you add in the additional grains listed below, you should be pretty close, as the pale malt to caramalt percentage in Black Dog is 22.7%

*Black Dog - OG 1.062, FG 1.020, IBU 60, EBC 230 - Recipe courtesy of DIY Dog*

Extra Pale Spring Blend 4.15kg (sub this for your golden promise)
Caramalt 1.12kg 
Crystal 150 0.56kg 
Choclate Malt 0.38kg
Roasted Barley 0.31kg 
Wheat Malt 0.63kg 

Mash at 68° for 90 min (seems to be a long time, personally, i wouldn't bother mashing that long)


Columbus 31.3 Start Bitter
Columbus 12.5 Middle Flavour
Simcoe 12.5 Middle Flavour
Chinook 12.5 Middle Flavour
Columbus 25 End Flavour
Simcoe 25 End Flavour
Chinook 25 End Flavour
Columbus 87.5 Dry Hop Aroma
Simcoe 87.5 Dry Hop Aroma
Chinook 75 Dry Hop Aroma

ferment at 19° with wyeast 1056 (US05 will do) 
suggested tip is to add some oak chips that have been soaked in bourbon. i would taste first to see if you think it needs this.


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## Lionman (13/9/16)

I have done a few batches using crystal malts now and the first was 500g of a medium120. It was an IPA, bittered with Magnum, flavoured with Galaxy and Chinook to about 60 odd IBU and ABV of 6.8%

Flavours were ok, quite a complex beer that definitely got a lot better with age. Mouthfeel was very chewy, though. This also improved with age. finished this keg about 3 weeks after racking and the last few pints were really quite good. If I had a bigger pipeline of beer I would rather not tap a keg until 3-4weeks but alas, I drink too much and brew too little....

If you want a beer that will go from pitch to tap quite quickly, I wouldn't push the crystal malts too hard, or the IBU for that matter.

100g to 200g seems to be where the best balance lies, for the styles I'm brewing anyway which is mostly APA and AIPA.


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## Reman (13/9/16)

I do 20% crystal in a Dark Mild, gives it a nice mouthfeel and at 3% doesn't have that thin feel you get from other beers that light.

I think I'll have to try a different combo from 10% each of 40L and 120L, just doesn't quite have the right flavour.


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## yankinoz (14/9/16)

Caramalt is a light crystal, and it's sweetening effect should be slight, though not negligible. Other factors affect sweetness, such as mash temp schedule and especially yeast strain. In this recipe you're unlikely to get cloying sweetness unless the yeast is a low attenuator. What did you use?

Do you have temp control? If you're worried and the beer is still fermenting, try slowly raising the temp to the top of the recommended range. Doing that might eke out a little more fermentation, and if the main active phase is done it won't give you a load of esters. 

From experience I second Lionman's note on crystal and conditioning time.


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## bingggo (24/7/17)

I asked black rock about their oatmeal stout grist, and it has 39% caramalt.


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