# Ipa Advice



## Acasta (5/9/10)

Hey guys, i've currently got 1.4kg Munich I and .4kg of Caramunich II. i was going to make an IPA with all cascade and 4kg of base malt and 300g dextrose. But im not too sure if i still wanna go all cascade or change it up a bit. It will be my first brew on a new system so i don't wanna go too complex, but at the moment i have cascade, galaxy and chinook in the freezer. I can also go get more as my LHBS sells them by the gram.
I want about 60IBU.

OG 73
FG 17
19L
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5Grain 65.6 % 
1.40 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 23.0 % 
0.40 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 6.6 % 
0.30 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 4.9 %


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## jbowers (5/9/10)

Hey mate. I reckon use the lot. Not too much galaxy late though as it can dominate a little IMO.


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## Acasta (5/9/10)

So keep the galaxy early? Ill poke around the DB for some good rated IPAs and copy the hop additions.


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## dgilks (5/9/10)

My advice is exactly the opposite. Use the lot but make sure any Galaxy you used is in the last 10 minutes. The bitterness you get from Galaxy is incredibly harsh and unwanted in any beer.


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## Screwtop (5/9/10)

Make it square BU x GU. Galaxy for bittering, Cascade late...........oooohh yeah.

Waiting for the nay sayers !!!!!!!

Screwy

EDIT: too late


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## Acasta (5/9/10)

i gotta trust screwy guys haha.
Alright, galaxy for bittering and cascade up front, what about chinook?

Hows this look?
25.00 gm Galaxy [14.00%] (60 min) Hops 39.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade [5.40%] (10 min) Hops 6.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.40%] (20 min) Hops 3.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Galaxy [14.00%] (20 min) Hops 9.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.40%] (0 min) Hops - 
IBUs = 60

Is GU just change in gravity? and BU IBUs?


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## Screwtop (5/9/10)

Acasta said:


> i gotta trust screwy guys haha.
> Alright, galaxy for bittering and cascade up front, what about chinook?
> 
> Hows this look?
> ...




Chinook is a good bittering hop................... but............. have you used it before? Can be a little frightening early in beer experience :lol:


I meant GU = BU so for an OG of say 1.060 IBU of 60

But if using Chinook maybe wind it back to 50+ as it can seem savage, if using sucrose to finish the beer lower (FG) then it would be a good idea to lower the IBU to 50 as the beer will not finish with enough sweetness to balance 60 IBU.


Screwy


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## DKS (5/9/10)

I meant GU = BU so for an OG of say 1.060 IBU of 60


Screwy,
I've never looked at balancing in this way. I usually follow recipe IBU and OG style guidelines and fit within boundaries. Very interesting.
Is this something you only apply to IPAs? 
I haven't seen recipes that list GU:IBU ratios but its there in your face in Beersmith. I always take a note of it but sort of can't relate it as to a particular style. I only know by going back through my recipes and seeing if a particular brew needed more or less hop bitterness. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


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## Screwtop (5/9/10)

DKS said:


> I meant GU = BU so for an OG of say 1.060 IBU of 60
> 
> 
> Screwy,
> ...




I apply the balance value formula to all beers. http://beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html

OG, AA% and FG need to be taken into account. To accurately apply the BV formula some experience and knowledge of your system is required and the brewer needs to be able to confidently achieve his FG by producing wort which will ferment to achieve a target AA% for his yeast of choice.

Screwy


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## seemax (5/9/10)

You can't go wrong with cascade... bittering, flavour, aroma, dry ... it's all good!

Chinook I also like a lot, it's more grapefruit, I never found it harsh for late additions, maybe just my taste buds.

Also consider centennial .. or amarillo for IPA's.

Try 4*'s recipe from the last vic case swap :super:


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## Tony (5/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> OG, AA% and FG need to be taken into account. To accurately apply the BV formula some experience and knowledge of your system is required and the brewer needs to be able to confidently achieve his FG by producing wort which will ferment to achieve a target AA% for his yeast of choice.
> 
> Screwy



Oh mate.... thats poetry!

a big BIG +1 from me on that!

BU:GU....... your not a real brewer untill.......


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## DKS (5/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> I apply the balance value formula to all beers. http://beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html
> 
> OG, AA% and FG need to be taken into account. To accurately apply the BV formula some experience and knowledge of your system is required and the brewer needs to be able to confidently achieve his FG by producing wort which will ferment to achieve a target AA% for his yeast of choice.
> 
> Screwy



Thanks for that linky Screwy 
I'll study it more closely tomorrow and try to get a handle on it. 
Beers with a wide spread OG and IBU range are the ones I suspected of being mostly down to experience of trial and error. Say, a Strong Scotch Ale, for eg, has a big range of OG to fit BJCP guidelines, some 60pts. You could be way out of whack going by that and IBU recommendations alone . If that makes sense. :blink: Thanks again.
Daz


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## manticle (5/9/10)

seemax said:


> You can't go wrong with cascade... bittering, flavour, aroma, dry ... it's all good!
> 
> Chinook I also like a lot, it's more grapefruit, I never found it harsh for late additions, maybe just my taste buds.
> 
> ...




Funny, I find chinook to be very piney (as in pine tree, resinous) rather than citrus. I find centennial and cascade both the closest to grapefruit, amarillo like mandarins and tettnanger on the orange side of things (yes I know it's the odd one out). Centennial and chinook certainly work together (amarillo is good there too but not relevant here) and cascade and chinook works well too.

For me Acasta, I would just pick the cascade - moreso because you are starting out and you will get a better idea (and your own idea) about what the hop brings.

Last bit of advice: I'd probably listen to screwtop and Tony before anyone else (including me).


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## BrenosBrews (5/9/10)

I'd throw some Chinook in towards the end for some piney goodness that an American IPA should have.

I'm about to go crack my latest IPA which was bittered with Galaxy & had multiple additions of Chinook, Centennial & Simcoe and dry hopped with Cascade. Yummy.


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## Screwtop (6/9/10)

DKS said:


> Thanks for that linky Screwy
> I'll study it more closely tomorrow and try to get a handle on it.
> Beers with a wide spread OG and IBU range are the ones I suspected of being mostly down to experience of trial and error. Say, a Strong Scotch Ale, for eg, has a big range of OG to fit BJCP guidelines, some 60pts. You could be way out of whack going by that and IBU recommendations alone . If that makes sense. :blink: Thanks again.
> Daz



I wrote a little Access app for applying the BV formula. As you point out some styles have a broad range of OG etc. BV formula really helps here, wouldn't want to make a beer at the max OG and Min IBU or vice versa. Having a system that enables a brewer to dial in wort fermentability is pretty important too, in order to determine FG, given yeast strain and AA%. 




manticle said:


> Funny, I find chinook to be very piney (as in pine tree, resinous) rather than citrus. I find centennial and cascade both the closest to grapefruit, amarillo like mandarins and tettnanger on the orange side of things (yes I know it's the odd one out).




As aromatics are lost to evaporation during the boil, varieties such as Chinook used for bittering don't tend to display their aromatic qualities as much in the finished beer, although naturally some hop character does come through. Have heard many brewers argue that bittering hops add nothing in the way of flavour/aroma. Maybe so with some varieties, but my experience is that many varieties do contribute flavour and aroma when used for bittering additions. Late hopping (20 min or less) and dry hopping is where the big flavour and aroma contributions come from. Chinook seems to be one of those hop varieties where the mellowing effect of time on beer is really well demonstrated. So If a brewer has been heavy handed using Chinook, time is their friend.

Cheers,

Screwy


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## manticle (6/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> I
> 
> As aromatics are lost to evaporation during the boil, varieties such as Chinook used for bittering don't tend to display their aromatic qualities as much in the finished beer, although naturally some hop character does come through. Have heard many brewers argue that bittering hops add nothing in the way of flavour/aroma. Maybe so with some varieties, but my experience is that many varieties do contribute flavour and aroma when used for bittering additions. Late hopping (20 min or less) and dry hopping is where the big flavour and aroma contributions come from. Chinook seems to be one of those hop varieties where the mellowing effect of time on beer is really well demonstrated. So If a brewer has been heavy handed using Chinook, time is their friend.
> 
> ...




Very few hops of my experience have no effect on the finished flavour of the beer when added at the bittering stage. Most (all?) of my experience with chinook has been with fresh, Australian grown flowers too so there could be the regional differences at work.

I've pretty much always used them late as I've not known the IBU level - blended with other hops like amarillo and centennial it works very well but like all of the higher aa hops I can see how it could easily be over-used.


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## MarkBastard (6/9/10)

Screwy gives good IPA advice.

I used his malt advice to make the following, the best beer I've ever made.

Malt: 
4000 Ale Malt (Barrett Burston)
1700 Munich II Malt (Weyermann)

Mash: 
Strike: 69c, Begin mash 66c. End mash 64.5c

Boil:
25g Columbus @ 60m
Whirfloc @ 20m
10g Chinook and 20g Cascade @ 5m
10g Amarillo, 10g Cascade, 10g Chinook at flameout.

Left to steep for 15 minutes then racked to cube. 
20g Cascade added to cube.
Pitched US05.

Measured OG at 1.060

Added 30g of Willamette to fermenter when near end of ferment.

Measured SG at 1.016.

I love Willamette as a dry hop. Not sure if anyone else uses it that way.


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## Screwtop (6/9/10)

manticle said:


> Very few hops of my experience have no effect on the finished flavour of the beer when added at the bittering stage. Most (all?) of my experience with chinook has been with fresh, Australian grown flowers too so there could be the regional differences at work.
> 
> I've pretty much always used them late as I've not known the IBU level - blended with other hops like amarillo and centennial it works very well but like all of the higher aa hops I can see how it could easily be over-used.



A, my home grown Chinook taste and smell onion like :lol: Used for dry hopping they are farking terrible, after some weeks when they begin to mellow the flavour/aroma is Yummmmmyy. Gotta love hops, three cheers for the little differences.




Mark^Bastard said:


> I love Willamette as a dry hop. Not sure if anyone else uses it that way.




Brew the beer you like to drink, thats what brewing is all about





Screwy


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (6/9/10)

seemax said:


> You can't go wrong with cascade... bittering, flavour, aroma, dry ... it's all good!
> 
> Chinook I also like a lot, it's more grapefruit, I never found it harsh for late additions, maybe just my taste buds.
> 
> ...



Amarillo is fantastic, I'd also consider Nelson Sauvin and/or Citra - both very fruity and bold and (although this is subjective), I find their perceived bitterness to be considerably lower, even though the IBU will be high.

I have a recipe for a SMASH citra ale and a Nelson Sauvin beer, which is very IPA - bitterness was GU:BU of 1 (1.040 to 40 IBU), but SWMBO said she didn't detect any real bitterness.


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## Screwtop (6/9/10)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I have a recipe for a SMASH citra ale and a Nelson Sauvin beer, which is very IPA - bitterness was GU:BU of 1 (1.040 to 40 IBU), but SWMBO said she didn't detect any real bitterness.




What is with females????????? Give em a beer to try........ naah too beery and bitter. Give em an IPA.............. Mmm thats nice, not so beery................ go figure. Have had far more favourable responses from females tasting IPA than most other beer styles with the exception of Hefeweizen.

Screwy


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## tavas (6/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> What is with females????????? Give em a beer to try........ naah too beery and bitter. Give em an IPA.............. Mmm thats nice, not so beery................ go figure. Have had far more favourable responses from females tasting IPA than most other beer styles with the exception of Hefeweizen.
> 
> Screwy



You just opened a whole can of worms there. If I could work out what my wife was thinking day to day, I'd either be very rich or extremely confused.


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## Screwtop (6/9/10)

tavas said:


> You just opened a whole can of worms there. If I could work out what my wife was thinking day to day, I'd either be very rich or extremely confused.




It's all revealed here: 

Screwy


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (6/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> What is with females????????? Give em a beer to try........ naah too beery and bitter. Give em an IPA.............. Mmm thats nice, not so beery................ go figure. Have had far more favourable responses from females tasting IPA than most other beer styles with the exception of Hefeweizen.
> 
> Screwy



With you screwy - I give the mrs a regular amber ale (such as James Squire's) or any number of micro brewed beers with a similar amber/yellow profile, and it is all complaints.

I go any white-style beer or any IPA/heavily hopped beer and it's "fruity" and nice.

My Nelson Sauvin based pale ale got called "wine-like". I have to admit that it is very very fruity and probably it's own style of beer separate from IPA for that reason (no lingering bitterness), but heck - with GU:BU 1:1 - I still don't get it.

Get this - she even asked me to "brew it again", which is far different from "your stupid beer thing made my kitchen floor sticky" I usually get.

Goomba


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## Dazza_devil (6/9/10)

It's all about balance and disguising the 'beer' flavour with delightfully fragrant and flavoursome hops.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (6/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> It's all about balance and disguising the 'beer' flavour with delightfully fragrant and flavoursome hops.



Agreed. Since I've become more daring with my hop choices, the interestingness of the beer has gone up.

I would recommend heartily anyone to try Nelson Sauvin in particular. It is easily the most interesting hop type I've used in its own right. It's like getting a fruit salad "hoppiness" without having to dump 5 different varieties into the brew.

Don't get me wrong, I love Amarillo, noble hops, English hop varieties, but for sheer quantity of quality flavour in one hop variety, Nelson Sauvin has it.

The only downside is that it does dominate high aroma, low bitterness hops to the point of making them obsolete in a beer. Don't use with Saaz, Tettnanger or EKG - I just couldn't smell nor taste anything else other than NS.

(just to bring us back On Topic a little!) :icon_cheers: 

Goomba


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## Screwtop (6/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> It's all about balance and disguising the 'beer' flavour with delightfully fragrant and flavoursome hops.




You've been watching the new VB add, right? :lol: :lol:

Screwy


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## manticle (6/9/10)

My lady likes bitterness, hop flavour and malt driven beers like porters and stouts. Only thing she's not a fan of is yeast driven beers like Belgian ales.


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## Dazza_devil (6/9/10)

My women are, on average, red wine drinkers and screw their face up at anything remotely bitter.
So it's IPA's for me unless I want them guzzling my beer.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (6/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> My women are, on average, red wine drinkers and screw their face up at anything remotely bitter.
> So it's IPA's for me unless I want them guzzling my beer.



Great plan, but I can't apply it.

The number 1 reason I can brew, is that I make beer that SWMBO will occasionally drink. If I make beer she hates (I've tried this), I don't get to brew - there is always "something" that will come up, or I will fail cabinet approval after the veto vote from the Minister of War & Finance.

The upside is that slowly, my ability to brew really good beer is being recognised, albeit reluctantly.



Goomba


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## MarkBastard (6/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> What is with females????????? Give em a beer to try........ naah too beery and bitter. Give em an IPA.............. Mmm thats nice, not so beery................ go figure. Have had far more favourable responses from females tasting IPA than most other beer styles with the exception of Hefeweizen.
> 
> Screwy



This is true but mine couldn't handle a Mikkeller Tomahawk IPA, not to worry I drank mine and then drank hers too :icon_drunk: :icon_drunk:


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