# Coopers English Bitter



## BjornJ

Just bought the Coopers English Bitter can, will try tomorrow.
Thinking of making it without any specialty grain or hops, just using the can and .5 kg of LDME like it says on the can.
Probably good to try it like it is to get a baseline before trying anything "fancy"  


Any feedback from homebrewers who have used this exact can and yeast like it is?
I was thinking of buying some US-56 to replace the kit yeast with, but then I have to do a long walk at lunch tomorrow.

It says to only use .5 kg of LDME, that will give a low-alcohol beer, I would think. I like that, so will not add anything else.

Would this kit benefit from secondary fermenting, a week in the fridge after that, etc or just a week in primary and bottle?

cheers
Bjorn


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## tcraig20

If you want to buy a different yeast for it, go with S04 over S05. I expect the kit yeast is the same as the other cooper's ales. It will be OK, but a better yeast will give better beer obviously. 

I havent made or even seen this kit - half a kilo of malt does sound odd though. Perhaps they are aiming for an ordinary bitter?

I dont see much point using secondaries for ales, I'd just go primary then bottle


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## Ducatiboy stu

Use the Coopers yeast...there is nothing wrong with it ( I have even used it in AG brews..... :icon_cheers: )

Just keep the temp under 18*c and you will be suprised....


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## rclemmett

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Use the Coopers yeast...there is nothing wrong with it ( I have even used it in AG brews..... :icon_cheers: )
> 
> Just keep the temp under 18*c and you will be suprised....



The yeast should be good and fresh considering they're a new line.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Coopers yeast is made by Maui, a commercial yeast manufacturer, but made with Coopers spec yeast, specifically for Coopers


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## base2aau

I bought one of these the other day from coles, I had never seen it before, I would like to turn this into more of a kilkenny style, any suggestions? Maybe a little grain? perhaps a little crystal


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## Ducatiboy stu

It is a new Kit..

It would be to bitter to make a Kilkenny...


BUT...I would steep some Carrared and Cararoma and add it to the kit


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## BjornJ

but will the kit yeast work below 18 degrees?

thanks for the comments, would love to hear from someone who has made this kit "as is" but maybe it is to new still?


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## bum

The only discussion I've seen around the traps is guys saying they have/will put this down as per directions but there's no tasting notes yet that I have seen.

Kit yeast will work at lower temps than instructions suggest - it'll just take longer.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Yes it will work below 18*c, but it will be slower..but it wont go below about 15-16*c...it will sort of stop working about that temp. 18*c is about perfect


Slower is good.. The higher the temp, the more bad flavours you will get


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## Bizier

I am drinking a beer right now that was fermented with 4 sachets of coopers yeast because I had nothing else on hand to pitch at the time. It does create a drinkable beer. I fermented at 17 deg C, but I honestly would have preferred nearly any other yeast. The yeast profile is the least desirable element of the beer.

ED: SO4 will be the bet here, or Windsor if you have access, you want the approprioate yeast aroma and taste.


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## Fourstar

Coopers yeast is fine but with s04 it will be better. Infact, a smack pack of Wyeast 1068 would be better still... that is of course if the point of this exercise is to make good beer.


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## BjornJ

So S04 would be better than us-56? Is that because of different tastes from the yeast or from different levels of "falling solidly to the bottom of the bottle" ?

It will be fermenting at 18-20 degrees, probably closer to 20.

thanks
Bjorn


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## petesbrew

I noticed on the weekend the price of this kit had dropped from $20 to $13 at our local coles (carlingford)


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## A3k

BjornJ said:


> So S04 would be better than us-56? Is that because of different tastes from the yeast or from different levels of "falling solidly to the bottom of the bottle" ?
> 
> It will be fermenting at 18-20 degrees, probably closer to 20.
> 
> thanks
> Bjorn



Different yeasts produce different flavours due to esters etc. English yeasts (like S-04) generally produce lots of fruity esters, whereas the US ale yeasts such as S-05 don't and don't produce as many flavours. If you're making an English style beer, an english style yeast will get you closer. But doesn't mean you have to do that at all.


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## RdeVjun

BjornJ said:


> So S04 would be better than us-56?


No, not necessarily, just different. They're both popular ale yeasts, I'd use S-04.


BjornJ said:


> Is that because of different tastes from the yeast or from different levels of "falling solidly to the bottom of the bottle" ?


Definitely the former mate, the taste will be different. Flocculation (i.e. settling of suspended solids, leading to beer clarity) is often a nice helpful effect and it varies considerably across strains, but I've yet to hear of folks selecting a particular yeast on flocculation characteristics ahead of flavour, though its always a possibility I guess.

As per other posts, I certainly recommend using a better yeast than the Coopers and as far as dried yeast goes, again, S-04 is probably the one I'd be using.


BjornJ said:


> It will be fermenting at 18-20 degrees, probably closer to 20.


Those temps will be just peachy, no worries there at all.

Oh, from your OP, just on transferring your brew to secondary, some folks do, some don't. I tend to do it, but its not a hard and fast rule and you won't wreck your brew if you don't, or if you do, just be sure that your santiation is up to scratch. Enhancing flocculation is one reason for doing it, and also to get the brew off the yeast cake is another, and even just to free up the fermenter, etc...

Also from your OP, the recipe with 0.5kg of LDME is obviously very basic. I've done that sort of thing ages ago with an APA, very ordinary result and, while it gives a bit of clarity in terms of how the tin looks almost naked, I agree with stu and suggest steeping some carared or caraaroma, boiling that will give you an opportunity to add some flavour and aroma hops, all of which should be very pleasing.

Anyway, keep us posted hey? I've not seen this tin locally yet and am keen to hear as many reports as possible on how it goes. Cheers!

Edit: Misread stu's post- is prob too bitter for Kilkenny.


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## BjornJ

Great, thanks for your help.
So S-04 sounds like something for me, clear beer and a more "English" taste, whatever that is. Not sure why a pommy-tasting beer would be good, though. Hehe.. 

Will walk up to Daves homebrew at lunch and grab some, but have a question :

I want to put it a week in primary, then a week or so in secondary as I just bottled my mexican with extra grains/hops and quite a bit of crap was left in the bottom of the secondary, and then a week in the fridge (still in the cube) before bottling. 
But will the yeast S-04 be able to carbonate the bottles after all this time if it flocculates so well? Won't it all be dead/in the yeast cake by then if it takes 3 weeks from pitching to bottling?



thanks again, learning heaps from this forum!

Bjorn


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## Philthy79

BjornJ said:


> Great, thanks for your help.
> So S-04 sounds like something for me, clear beer and a more "English" taste, whatever that is. Not sure why a pommy-tasting beer would be good, though. Hehe..
> 
> 
> 
> Bjorn




Whats wrong with "Pommy-tasting" beers?!?!


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## Fourstar

Hey BjornJ,

Yeah, the SO4 will give a English fruity profile, US05 can tend to be 'citrus fruity' at the higher end of ferment temps which is not a typical character of an English ale. On a side note, US05 is good to use if you want a 'clean/neutral' yeast profile if you ferment it low (18deg~). As for the Secondary, don't worry, there will be more than enough yeast there to ferment out in the bottles.


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## BjornJ

thanks, will update with results when ready,

Bjorn


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## Hutch

BjornJ said:


> But will the yeast S-04 be able to carbonate the bottles after all this time if it flocculates so well? Won't it all be dead/in the yeast cake by then if it takes 3 weeks from pitching to bottling?



Don't worry about the yeast after 3 weeks. Yeast will survive many months/years once it's settled-out in beer. It does eventually "autolyse" (die) at the bottom of the fermenter, but in this short time-frame there is nothing to worry about. 

Many experienced brewers do not use secondary fermenters, prefering to leave the beer in primary for extended conditioning after it has reached final gravity. The primary reason is to avoid unnecessary exposure to oxygen by transfering to secondary. There is a perceived risk of fouling the beer by leaving it on the yeast cake for longer (due to autolysis), however a few weeks is not going to do any harm, and basically avoids extra work in cleaning/sanitising a secondary vessel and racking tube.

Transfering to secondary is useful if you need to free up your primary fermenter, re-use the yeast cake, or you wish to dry-hop in secondary.
Do what works for you.

Hutch.


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## RdeVjun

No sweat Bjorn, just keep your sachet of yeast cool this afternoon until you get it home, it doesn't _have_ to be refrigerated, but it'll help to keep its viability up until you pitch it. Temperature shock is one way to snot your precious critters so avoid rapidly- changing and/or extreme conditions as much as you can and it'll be fine.

There will still be millions and millions of viable yeast cells per ml in suspension, even after all that crap/trub settles out in primary and secondary, so don't worry. Some firms and even HBers do go with a conditioning innoculant at bottling, sometimes a different strain even, but I really wouldn't be worrying about that, for this brew its just not necessary at all.

Now, just quit loafing about on the net while at work and get back on the job!  Good luck with it!


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## BjornJ

Just got back from Dave's Homebrew shop, bought the yeast and a teabag of "fuggles" hops.
Will have a read about the hops but probably just throw them in the bottom of the secondary before siphoning the beer into it. That will hopefully give me a fresh, hoppy aroma without adding too much. A little worried about adding hops to a bitter, as it is my first bitter but I am sure it will be ok.

Ok, will brew tonight, if mixing DME and a can of extract classifies as brewing!
(and yes, I am at work but on a break, hehe)
 

thanks guys,
Bjorn


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## RdeVjun

BjornJ said:


> Just got back from Dave's Homebrew shop, bought the yeast and a teabag of "fuggles" hops.
> Will have a read about the hops but probably just throw them in the bottom of the secondary before siphoning the beer into it. That will hopefully give me a fresh, hoppy aroma without adding too much. A little worried about adding hops to a bitter, as it is my first bitter but I am sure it will be ok.
> 
> Ok, will brew tonight, if mixing DME and a can of extract classifies as brewing!
> (and yes, I am at work but on a break, hehe)
> 
> 
> thanks guys,
> Bjorn


That'd do well Bjorn, it won't add much bitterness unless boiled, even then, its only 12g. To get some flavour and aroma efficiency, I'd first steep the hop teabag in a couple of cups of boiling water from the kettle in a clean jug for 20 minutes, stirring occasionally as the bag floats. Then toss the hop tea and bag into the secondary and proceed as planned. Other than that, its full steam ahead.

Also, it surely classifies- you started with water, hops, yeast and malt and you get beer at the end right? It might even be cheaper and better than many megaswills!

Back to work for you- we have a public holiday up here in sunny Queensland!


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## BjornJ

Brewed it last night, am I the only one who always ends up with some mishaps every time I make beer??

Yesterday I managed to put the hydrometer full of beer on the wet table surface, then when lifting it the bottom cap was "stuck" to the table enough to lift only the plastic tubing with the hydrometer in it! All the beer naturally flowed out over the table and made a mess.. hehe.

Anyway, brewed the Coopers English Bitter according to the recipie, 500 gr of Coopers LDME first in the fermenter then a jug of hot water and just swirled and swirled until it dissolved. The box actually specifically says not to stir with a spoon.

Then the heated can of goo, this syrup is very dark and thick, really black and sticky stuff. Much darker than the others I have made, but those have only been lager/pale ale/draught.

Pitched Safale S-04 at 18 degrees and put it away for the week.

OG: 1034 

Will leave until Sunday probably then into cube. The cube is only 15 liters, will bottle a couple of bottles from the primary as well as the last couple of batches I have made A and B bottles to see if the extra work of second fermenter, then in the fridge, then isinglass is worth it before bottling.


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## BjornJ

Update: 

Friday 8.05 today, did a hydrometer reading, coming out at 1014-1016 and not very clear but starting to get more ready.

Will put in a cube and dry hop on Sunday with a teabag of Fuggles, back in the server room for a week and then in the fridge.

Bjorn


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## RdeVjun

BjornJ said:


> Update:
> 
> Friday 8.05 today, did a hydrometer reading, coming out at 1014-1016 and not very clear but starting to get more ready.
> 
> Will put in a cube and dry hop on Sunday with a teabag of Fuggles, back in the server room for a week and then in the fridge.
> 
> Bjorn


How'd you get on with this Bjorn? Should just about be in bottles by now? We trust you did the honorable thing and instead of just discarding the hydrometer sample you tasted it? If so, a report please!

Even though I've graduated to AG kindergarten recently, I just couldn't help myself and picked up a can of this EB goop from a local supermarket, $10-something, will bang it on with some carared and caraaroma perhaps, maybe some styrian, or whatever I find in the freezer that suits.
Am thinking Windsor now, even though I originally recommended S-04, and the low flocculation and attenuation should be no biggie for me. The idea of multi- strained, staged pitching (thanks PoMo!) with Windsor to start with and then followed a day later by Nottingham intrigues me, but as this is a new kit I've never tried before, I'd best keep the experimentation to a minimum. I'll be bunging it on tomorrow, any suggestions either way would be welcome in the mean time.

Oh, and Bjorn- sorry mate for hijacking your thread...


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## manticle

Fourstar said:


> As for the Secondary, don't worry, there will be more than enough yeast there to ferment out in the bottles.



far less experienced than fourstar but since I started racking and cold conditioning I've not had a problem with carbing except on one occasion when I miscalculated the amount (fixed by recarbing).

It gives a nicer, cleaner brew and is recommended by me.


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## QIK86

I'm interested to hear Bjorn's results, as I've just picked up this can. I was thinking about keeping it simple using S04 and increasing the LDME to about 800g if the kit can take it.


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## Hutch

QIK86 said:


> I'm interested to hear Bjorn's results, as I've just picked up this can. I was thinking about keeping it simple using S04 and increasing the LDME to about 800g if the kit can take it.


The can can take a lot more than the recommended 500gm DME. 
I added 2kg grain to mine (taking the OG up to 1.045) and the result is superb!

Incidentally, I recently had some email correspondence with Paul Burge, Technical development Manager at Coopers in relation to this kit, having questioned the high level of bittering they have used. 

I was basically concerned that their recommended 500gm will only take the OG up to about 1.032, which is still a little on the low side for around 40+IBUs.

FYI, Here are some of the details from the correspondence I received...



> We quote the bitterness of the English Bitter as 590IBU. If you plug this figure into the formula
> (supplied in the FAQ page: http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/hbrew.php?pid=4 ) you should get a final bitterness of between 30.5 and 39.2 BU, depending on whether you factor in a 30% loss or 10% fermentation loss. Interestingly, our analysis of the final beer (development versions and the first full production run) shows the bitterness to be generally in the 30 to 32 BU range.
> ...
> We reckon that English Bitter, made to the recommended recipe, fits quite neatly into (BJCP) Style 8A. Standard/Ordinary Bitter
> ...
> We find that the FG, when using 500g of Light Dry Malt and using the yeast supplied, hits around the 1007-1008 mark



My impression is that it is certainly on the high-end of 30-40 IBUs, however it is immensely drinkable!
They've done a great job with this kit.

Hutch.

PS. make sure you carb it on the low-end, as is typical for English Bitters. Makes a big difference to the flavour profile.


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## RdeVjun

ker... Bump...! No more reports? Bjorn? Anyone?

BTW Hutch, what did you use- 2kg of what? Could be a partial mash of ale malt?

AFAIK, no bad feedback for this kit yet, so I'll just give it a whirl with some crystal, fuggles and stryian or something. I've got some 1275 cake lined up for this tomorrow, wondering if anyone's had any other ideas for K&B though? I know its only early days though...

:icon_offtopic: 
BTW, this is quite OT, that I know. From my early samples, 1275 seems sort of flat or neutral, spectrum- wise but not really in a bad way. Just seems to have everything there across the board, nothing that leaps down the throat and has me gagging. Seems to tone down or limit the graininess from my first few BIAB AGs a shade, which is just fine with me. Good- I'll re-use some of it tomorrow with the Coopers kit.


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## BjornJ

Sorry for the late update!

I really liked the resulting beer from the Coopers English Bitter kit, using only the prescribed 500 gr of Dried Malt Extract and a teabag of Fuggles hops for extra aroma. I doubt the dryhopping with Fuggles really made much difference, but added it anyway.

The beer is now several months old and has become more bitter than it was after only a month, it seems the maturation period has somehow made the malt flavors mellow, making it a more bitter beer? I've had this beer at beer tastings at work probably 4-6 times now and I'm not the only one saying the beer seems to be more bitter now.

Anyway it is a good kit beer and nice to have a lower-alcohol alternative,

thanks
Bjorn


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## AussieJosh

Im drinking it right now. its about 2 or 3 months old. i made it as is recomended. Very nice!


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## buttersd70

hmm. I might have to try this, just so I have a point of reference. As an AG brewer, who is passionate about English Bitters, and particularly about Yorkshire Bitters, my one concern is the time taken for it to, for want of a better term, come into it's own....

@ bjorn.....
it doesn't entirely surprise me that the malt character drops, and the bitterness increases, over time. I'm a big advocate of 'green is best' in the yorkie style....in fact, if it's more than 3 weeks from pitching to blowing the keg, it's too long for me.....slightly more in bottles. Time does no favours to this style of beer, imo......

a recipe I have from the 1850's for farmhouse Mild Ale says "work with barm (wet yeast) for 4 or 5 days, then bottle and use _within a week or fortnight_"

bless Mrs Beeton.


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## AussieJosh

I will be looking forward to your opionion on this one Butters. Will you be making it to instruction? or using other yeast and hops?


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## zabond

Just finished a keg of ENGLISH BITTER 
Coops eng bit can
1kg BE2
250grm LDME
200grm med crystal
200grm carapils
50grm caroma
grains steeped 40 [email protected] 70*
willamett plug 15 min boil
brewceller english ale yeast[sao4?]
22ltrs @ 18* og 1060 fg 1026 4.9%
nice red colour- good creamy head- very drinkable :icon_drool2:
next time going to drop carapils to 100-be2 to 750 & add 250 grm goldensyrup to try for a bit more body
Russ


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## discoloop

Zabond, I think you'll find the golden syrup will ferment right out and lighten the body. Same effect as using plain old white sugar.


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## Stagwa

BjornJ, Where do you work if they ley you put beer in the server room?


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## tunza60

Just bought a can of this as well, i have a Coopers brew enhancer2 (1kg) lying around so may as well use this. will post some tasting notes in few weeks.


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## manticle

discoloop said:


> Zabond, I think you'll find the golden syrup will ferment right out and lighten the body. Same effect as using plain old white sugar.



I think golden syrup will give a bit of colour and flavour as well. It is also an invert sugar and has less likelihood of producing flavours associated with using plain white sugar (debatably acetyladehyde).

As an aside - has anyone ever caramelised golden syrup for use as candi sugar (colour, flavour, dryness) in a Belgian or similar high gravity brew?


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## lanerigg

Ive just brewed my 3 batch of this kit and i cant belief how good it is!
However i use and reculture PRO- 11 ENGLISH LONDON ALE YEAST 
1st brew was can + 1kg LDME with goldings plug at 60min and another dry in mussline into fermenter
2nd brew can + can LME + Fuggles plug at 60min and goldings dry in mussline into fermenter
3rd can + can Amber Malt extract + Fuggles plug at 60min and another fuggles dry in mussline into fermenter

They finnish up @ 4.4% higher then the kit should be but still a good session drink
I'll let you know how the amber turns out


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## BjornJ

Stagwa said:


> BjornJ, Where do you work if they ley you put beer in the server room?




 

Bjorn


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## BjornJ

buttersd70 said:


> @ bjorn.....
> it doesn't entirely surprise me that the malt character drops, and the bitterness increases, over time. I'm a big advocate of 'green is best' in the yorkie style....in fact, if it's more than 3 weeks from pitching to blowing the keg, it's too long for me.....slightly more in bottles. Time does no favours to this style of beer, imo......
> 
> a recipe I have from the 1850's for farmhouse Mild Ale says "work with barm (wet yeast) for 4 or 5 days, then bottle and use _within a week or fortnight_"
> 
> bless Mrs Beeton.




Butters,
that's interesting. Hmm, I have read that "big" beers as in high OG need time to mature, that the taste looses harsh components and is smoother after a while. But I didn't know that a beer with a slightly malty flavour would "mature" down towards too little malt and therefore leaving to much bittering?
I thought all beer would improve if I were able to leave them alone for 3-6 months, but it sounds like Mild/Bitter is not that kind of beer. 
Aaah, now I want to make it again so I can compare one after a month with the last bottles I still have of this first one!
(but I have two brews on at the moment so will have to wait, a porter AG and a cheap can of something to test the sediment-free project again)

This would be another argument for this kit beer then. It needs maybe a month from bottling to "brilliant" so maybe a good first beer for those starting out? You don't have to wait for months to try your first beer, and the darker colour/taste will help hide some less-than-ideal tastes from temperature too high, etc.


thanks
Bjorn


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## buttersd70

Bjorn
by what I said, I didn't mean thhat the bitterness will increase per se, but rather the _perception _of the bitterness, comparitive to the malt, will change. As the beer conditions, all flavour compounds will smooth out, including the malt. So what starts as rather bold malt flavours, becomes more subtle; and that _may_ cause a shift in the perception of the balance.


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## RdeVjun

Stagwa said:


> BjornJ, Where do you work if they ley you put beer in the server room?





BjornJ said:


> Bjorn


Public service? They're pretty free and loose with crap in the IT rooms where I see our hard- earned taxes in action. (Often...)

If any HBer whose day job is IT hasn't noticed this, they're just not serious or devoted enough. Points for getting the temp a few degs lower to 'boost performance' though...


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## BjornJ

RdeVjun said:


> Public service? They're pretty free and loose with crap in the IT rooms where I see our hard- earned taxes in action. (Often...)
> 
> If any HBer whose day job is IT hasn't noticed this, they're just not serious or devoted enough. Points for getting the temp a few degs lower to 'boost performance' though...




We may already be to far off topic here, will just say I do not work in the public service. 






Gents
I am making a porter at the moment (my first ever) that had a OG of 1.032 and FG of 1.012 so it is a low-alcohol, "mildish" one. Do you think it may be in the same boat, not gaining anything by leaving it for several months as the malty flavors will be a bit subdued or would months of storage do a porter good as it is a darker beer?
I think I understand what Butters meant, that by storage the bittering does not increase as in higher IBU but that if the malt-flavor "mellows out" or is less noticeable, the bitter part of the flavor will stand out more.

thanks
Bjorn


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## buttersd70

A porter is likely to be more forgiving of age, precisely because it _is _a darker beer, with harsher roasted notes from the dark grain that will mellow in a good way with a bit of age. It won't need as long to come into prime as a bigger porter, but a bit of age won't be a bad thing.


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## surlyraider

Hutch said:


> Hutch.
> 
> PS. make sure you carb it on the low-end, as is typical for English Bitters. Makes a big difference to the flavour profile.



Do you recommend only 1 carbonation drop per longneck then?


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## buttersd70

surlyraider said:


> Do you recommend only 1 carbonation drop per longneck then?



bulk priming definately ftw, particularly with English beers that require lower carbonation...... 

however, according to the nutrition panel on coopers carb drops, it's 3.36g sugar per drop...assuming 20C ferment temp, this would give ~2 volumes CO2 if used 1 drop per 750mL. That would be fine in the bottle. 

Bitters are normally 1.3-1.8 (ish) volumes, depending on if its of a pump or a keg....but in the case of bottles, it's often slightly higher, to make it easier to form the head on the pour. (if you want it to pour well, you might need to adjust the way you pour, slightly....start straight, then tilt, then straighten again.  )


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## surlyraider

buttersd70 said:


> bulk priming definately ftw, particularly with English beers that require lower carbonation......
> 
> however, according to the nutrition panel on coopers carb drops, it's 3.36g sugar per drop...assuming 20C ferment temp, this would give ~2 volumes CO2 if used 1 drop per 750mL. That would be fine in the bottle.
> 
> Bitters are normally 1.3-1.8 (ish) volumes, depending on if its of a pump or a keg....but in the case of bottles, it's often slightly higher, to make it easier to form the head on the pour. (if you want it to pour well, you might need to adjust the way you pour, slightly....start straight, then tilt, then straighten again.  )



Legend!


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## RdeVjun

Surly, mate, ever heard of preaching to the converted? Butters has been legendary around this neck of the woods for yonks, lets just get that straight.  

I found two drops way too much, but one usually OK for EBs, but as Butters indicates, if it comes up light then pouring technique can be your friend. I bulk prime these days, but occasionally I have more to bottle than I'd anticipated and will slip a couple of bottles through with one and two drops, just for old times' sake and it usually reinforces my view that two is way too much. I aim around two volumes usually, but piss- farting around with different bottle sizes (330, 375, 500, 660, 750) makes bulk priming pretty much the only option, while variability in the drop mass, well, its just not worth dicking about with it.

The harsh flavours disspiating or mellowing is very important for some types, I had a 8.5% RIS that tasted like rocket fuel when young, a few months knocked the rough edges clean off it to the point where there's only one solitary bottle left... :chug:


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## Macca17

Made one of these last week but upped the LDME to 1K, added some steeped grains and used
S-04 yeast. Seeing I wanted a clearer beer added some finings at the end of the ferment, however
this has seemed to kick off the yeast again as I'm still getting airlock activity 3 days later, will this
hurt the brew, still seems to taste ok.


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## bcp

buttersd70 said:


> bulk priming definately ftw, particularly with English beers that require lower carbonation......
> 
> however, according to the nutrition panel on coopers carb drops, it's 3.36g sugar per drop...assuming 20C ferment temp, this would give ~2 volumes CO2 if used 1 drop per 750mL. That would be fine in the bottle.
> 
> Bitters are normally 1.3-1.8 (ish) volumes, depending on if its of a pump or a keg....but in the case of bottles, it's often slightly higher, to make it easier to form the head on the pour. (if you want it to pour well, you might need to adjust the way you pour, slightly....start straight, then tilt, then straighten again.  )



Just came back from UK, and don't tell anyone there but their pubs are brilliant - history, atmosphere, conversation, and a great range of drops on hand pumps rather than full of gas. The pubs around me in australia are crammed full of pokie machines, horse racing, bigger, less personal... nothing like those village pubs i found.

Anyway - point being - i absolutely love english bitters EXCEPT the low carbonation - every mouthful i'm subconcsciously thinking i must have left this sit too long. 

Does this cooper's kit wind up with 'normal'* carbonation if i use the normal+ dose of sugars when racking? 

*Normal here defined by descendant of a convict from said home of english bitters#
+normal here defined by 2 lollies per large bottle.
#normal convicts probably drank gin anyway.


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## glaab

I made this kit with 1.5kg coopers LLME + 500BE2 + 250 Carared steeped + dryhopped a little EKG.
I am a fan of Coopers kits usually but this stuff is like 2nd rate dishwater . :icon_vomit: 
Yes I tried it cold, cool and room temp, it makes VB look good.


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## buttersd70

bcp said:


> Anyway - point being - i absolutely love english bitters EXCEPT the low carbonation - every mouthful i'm subconcsciously thinking i must have left this sit too long.
> 
> Does this cooper's kit wind up with 'normal'* carbonation if i use the normal+ dose of sugars when racking?
> 
> *Normal here defined by descendant of a convict from said home of english bitters#
> +normal here defined by 2 lollies per large bottle.
> #normal convicts probably drank gin anyway.



I disagree with your preference, but respect your right to have it. :blink: 

In answer to your question; yes, it will carbonate to whatever volume of co2 you want, as long as the priming rate is appropriate. So 2 carb lollies in a longneck will give you teh same amount of carbonation as any other beer primed with 2 lollies per longneck.

Bear in mind, though...excessive (in a relative sense) carbonation _will _alter the flavour of the beer, as well as the mouthfeel......for those that prefer more carbonation to english style, I would still suggest bulk priming, and choosing a middle ground. Perhaps 2.2 volumes of CO2.....or even 2.5volumes. Carb drops will give closer to 2.9volumes, which imo is too much carbonation for the vast majority of ales, and not just the english ones.

(ale of the pump in a UK pub is normally primed in the keg for ~1.3-1.5 vol, and then vented by the cellarman down to ~1 volume for tapping. So that's really low, due to the ability of the handpump to force co2 out of solution for head formation....in a HB situation in a keg, or especially a bottle, the carbonation is higher...even in the keg, I normally go to ~1.5-1.7 vol, and in bottles, 1.7-2.0 volumes).


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## Dazza88

Did this one with 1kg of light liquid malt and kit yeast. Turned out great (a month in bottles). Mates and my wife agree; had to offer mates a selection of my other brews to ensure I'd have some of this to taste test at later dates.


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## bcp

buttersd70 said:


> I disagree with your preference, but respect your right to have it. :blink:
> 
> In answer to your question; yes, it will carbonate to whatever volume of co2 you want, as long as the priming rate is appropriate. So 2 carb lollies in a longneck will give you teh same amount of carbonation as any other beer primed with 2 lollies per longneck.
> 
> Bear in mind, though...excessive (in a relative sense) carbonation _will _alter the flavour of the beer, as well as the mouthfeel......for those that prefer more carbonation to english style, I would still suggest bulk priming, and choosing a middle ground. Perhaps 2.2 volumes of CO2.....or even 2.5volumes. Carb drops will give closer to 2.9volumes, which imo is too much carbonation for the vast majority of ales, and not just the english ones.
> 
> (ale of the pump in a UK pub is normally primed in the keg for ~1.3-1.5 vol, and then vented by the cellarman down to ~1 volume for tapping. So that's really low, due to the ability of the handpump to force co2 out of solution for head formation....in a HB situation in a keg, or especially a bottle, the carbonation is higher...even in the keg, I normally go to ~1.5-1.7 vol, and in bottles, 1.7-2.0 volumes).



As i think about it, i don't think i really want the same carbonation levels as a draught - i think it will lose that smoothness. I probably want something on the lower end, but a little bit more than the english pub feel. Ok, so now i'll have to work out how to do the maths and how to bulk prime instead of the easy option of carb drops. I wonder what one carb drop would give me? I'll have to do some searching on this. I still haven't bottled my first brew - this English bitter is to be my second batch - and looking forward to it too!


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## buttersd70

bcp said:


> As i think about it, i don't think i really want the same carbonation levels as a draught - i think it will lose that smoothness. I probably want something on the lower end, but a little bit more than the english pub feel. Ok, so now i'll have to work out how to do the maths and how to bulk prime instead of the easy option of carb drops. I wonder what one carb drop would give me? I'll have to do some searching on this. I still haven't bottled my first brew - this English bitter is to be my second batch - and looking forward to it too!



aproximately 1.9 volumes of co2, iirc the sugar content of the drops. 
There are articles on how to bulk prime, and how to correctly use a priming calculator in the articles section.


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## bcp

buttersd70 said:


> I disagree with your preference, but respect your right to have it. :blink:
> 
> In answer to your question; yes, it will carbonate to whatever volume of co2 you want, as long as the priming rate is appropriate. So 2 carb lollies in a longneck will give you teh same amount of carbonation as any other beer primed with 2 lollies per longneck.
> 
> Bear in mind, though...excessive (in a relative sense) carbonation _will _alter the flavour of the beer, as well as the mouthfeel......for those that prefer more carbonation to english style, I would still suggest bulk priming, and choosing a middle ground. Perhaps 2.2 volumes of CO2.....or even 2.5volumes. Carb drops will give closer to 2.9volumes, which imo is too much carbonation for the vast majority of ales, and not just the english ones.
> 
> (ale of the pump in a UK pub is normally primed in the keg for ~1.3-1.5 vol, and then vented by the cellarman down to ~1 volume for tapping. So that's really low, due to the ability of the handpump to force co2 out of solution for head formation....in a HB situation in a keg, or especially a bottle, the carbonation is higher...even in the keg, I normally go to ~1.5-1.7 vol, and in bottles, 1.7-2.0 volumes).



I ended up using three different levels of carbonation - 1 carbonation drop, 1.5 & 2 drops - in the interests of science and taste. I have to say everyone has loved this drop and preferred the smoothness of the lower carbonation. It's a really nice kit and not a bad result for my second brew.


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## henderjo

Tasted one of these Coppers EB kits on the weekend... guess what my next brew is  seems it would serve as a great session beer too


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## A3k

Hi guys,
Bringing up an old topic.

I've banned myself from AG brewing until I have a kitchen back. So i bought a couple of these kits for $7.50 each.

I've made one, with 500gm LDME, 300gm crystal, S-04 and 16gm Tetts (15min).

This is alright, but has a bit of a sharp taste to it... It's a little over carbed which could pose some of the problem. The Tetts actually goes alright with it.

ANYWAY
I'm gonna make the other one soon. How does this partial sound?
I haven't been doing kits for a fair while, so i could be far off. Also worth noting, i do want a lowish alcohol beer if possible (this 3.3% is about right)

Coopers Bitter
1kg Munich
0.5kg Maris Otter
14gm EKG @15min
14gm EKG @ 1min
WYeast 1469 (West Yorkshire Ale)

Beersmith estimates OG~1.037 and FG~1.011 and 3.3%

Cheers,
Al


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## Pennywise

I reckon the Munich would go really well with this kit. I usually chuck in some more Styrian Goldings instead of EKG. Next time I do this kit I'll be giving it a small dose of Bramling Cross


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## A3k

Cheers HB79,
just got some NZ Styrian Goldings. i reckon i'll swap the last addition for them. 
Should I up the late hopping to be in line with smurtos TTL. ie. 

30gms EKG @ 15
30gm Styrian @ 1

I'm by no means an English bitter expert.

Cheers,
Al


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## RdeVjun

Sounds feasible to me, Al. I do an AG TTL based on Smurto's hops schedule with 
20IBU Fuggles, Northdown or Challenger @ 60 (the tin of goop is providing this obviously)
10IBU EKG @ 20
2g/L Styrian at flameout
1469 :icon_drool2: 

The Coopers EB kit is quite decent IMO, if I was doing partials or K&B it is one I'd look at for sure, another one would be Morgan's Bishop's English Bitter. I added some Styrian dry hops to one of the Coopers EB kits, probably the last K&B I did almost a year ago and remember the slight sadness when the last bottle was finally drunk...


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## QIK86

QIK86 said:


> I'm interested to hear Bjorn's results, as I've just picked up this can. I was thinking about keeping it simple using S04 and increasing the LDME to about 800g if the kit can take it.




Well, 12 months later (almost to the day), I finally put this brew down on Friday.  
Have been too busy to brew much lately thanks to a new job and having our first baby late last year. 

Coopers English Bitter Kit
800g LDME
260g Medium Crystal steeped for 30mins (my first ever grain experience - the house smelt delicious for the rest of the day.. )
Safale S-04 yeast
Made up to 22L
Fermenting at around 20 degrees.
OG was around 1035
Will carb to around 2.0vol

Can't wait to try the results! Hydro samples are quite promising. Anyone done a similar recipe?


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## mjfs

I was thinking of putting down one of these this weekend.

A simple kit version of an ESB.
21L
Coopers EB Kit 1.7kgs
Coopers Amber LME 1.5kgs
Light dry malt 200grams
20grams goldings at 5mins
Safale S04

Would it be advisable to steep some spec grains instead of the LME? would i be close to getting a ESB profile? :huh:


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## Pennywise

IMO replace the amber extract with plain light extract and steep some grain, 150-200g of CaraAroma will give it a nice little boost. Also if your up for using a liquid yeast then some Wyeast 1968 is a sure winner for this kit


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## mjfs

punched this into the spreadsheet with additions of light liquid extract, 200g CaraAroma and the 1968 yeast, looks all good, will give it a shot this weekend. one question though, i havent used a liquid yeast before is there anything i should be aware of before using it? cheers for the help :icon_cheers:


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## Dazza_devil

mjfs said:


> one question though, i havent used a liquid yeast before is there anything i should be aware of before using it? cheers for the help :icon_cheers:



Indeed there is, your beers will be much improved, if my transition from dried yeasts is anything to go by. All the beers I have made with my liquid yeasts have left the others for dead. Much more depth in their character IMHO.


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## Pennywise

Nothing really special or hard about it, the instructions are on the pack. I tend to spit the packs up because their not cheap. Have a search for yeast farming or splitting wyeast packs, that'll give you a pretty good idea of what to do


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## manticle

mjfs said:


> punched this into the spreadsheet with additions of light liquid extract, 200g CaraAroma and the 1968 yeast, looks all good, will give it a shot this weekend. one question though, i havent used a liquid yeast before is there anything i should be aware of before using it? cheers for the help :icon_cheers:



Smack it in advance - 1/2 a day for every month since the date of manufacture. If your wort is likely to be high gravity you should probably step up the yeast. Anywhere up to 1060 I wouldn't worry for your first although beyond 1060 is pushing it. If you regularly make beers close to 1060 I'd recommend reading about stepping up.

After smacking you can also make a starter. If you are in the realms of 1060, I would consider this as getting the yeast to optimum activity will simultaneously step it up a touch.

Stepping up is building the cell count, making a starter is generating active yeast and pitching them at that point. Can be combined as a process or can be two separate ones.

In brews where yeast character is important liquids should not be underestimated. The expense warrants researching re-using, harvesting and farming though.


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## Nevalicious

QIK86 said:


> Well, 12 months later (almost to the day), I finally put this brew down on Friday.
> Have been too busy to brew much lately thanks to a new job and having our first baby late last year.
> 
> Coopers English Bitter Kit
> 800g LDME
> 260g Medium Crystal steeped for 30mins (my first ever grain experience - the house smelt delicious for the rest of the day..  )
> Safale S-04 yeast
> Made up to 22L
> Fermenting at around 20 degrees.
> OG was around 1035
> Will carb to around 2.0vol
> 
> Can't wait to try the results! Hydro samples are quite promising. Anyone done a similar recipe?



Hey. I bottled the nearly exact recipie to this using same yeast, slightly different amount of crystal (200g) and used 1kg of LDME. I also used late additions of EKG. OG 1050 - SG 1014

Wow, bottled around 2 months ago after spending 2 weeks @ 19 deg in the fridge, crashed for 2 days at 1 deg, bulk primed to around 2.1. I resisted trying one all that time and it was well worth it! Creamy head all the way down to the bottom of the glass, simply delicious :icon_drool2: 

I mainly brew extracts now, but the English Bitter can and the stout kits will be regulars from now on. 

Tyler


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## Eggs

I made this recipe by manticle from this thread as my first atempt at brewing.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=560571

1 x tin Coopers English Bitter
1.5 kg LDME
250g caramunich I
280g carared
230g crystal malt 140
120g roast barley
30g East Kent Goldings
Wyeast 1084

I used a whitelabs yeast WLP002. I was realy pleased with the result, as were anyone who tried it. a little too much of the smokey toasted flavours at the end. Hopefully brewing the second batch this weekend with a few modifications, as per thread above.


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## QIK86

Nevalicious said:


> Hey. I bottled the nearly exact recipie to this using same yeast, slightly different amount of crystal (200g) and used 1kg of LDME. I also used late additions of EKG. OG 1050 - SG 1014
> 
> Wow, bottled around 2 months ago after spending 2 weeks @ 19 deg in the fridge, crashed for 2 days at 1 deg, bulk primed to around 2.1. I resisted trying one all that time and it was well worth it! Creamy head all the way down to the bottom of the glass, simply delicious :icon_drool2:
> 
> I mainly brew extracts now, but the English Bitter can and the stout kits will be regulars from now on.
> 
> Tyler



Sounds promising. Will report back in a month or two on the results.


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## redunderthebed

Aaargh i want to brew this but i can't find the bastard anywhere. :angry:


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## Adam Howard

redunderthebed said:


> Aaargh i want to brew this but i can't find the bastard anywhere. :angry:



Big W man. They usually have a good full stocking of all the Coopers products.


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## redunderthebed

Adamski29 said:


> Big W man. They usually have a good full stocking of all the Coopers products.



Bugger only have kmart here.


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## Nevalicious

redunderthebed said:


> Bugger only have kmart here.



Have seen it at k-mart before... Could try big w online, I see on the news that they just launched their entire product range online??!!

Get on it. As far as all the kits I've done, its in the top 3!


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## Nevalicious

Infact, enjoying one right now!


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## Adam Howard

redunderthebed said:


> Bugger only have kmart here.



Mate, seeing as you're in SA, why not order direct from Coopers Kit Cans

Too easy :icon_chickcheers:


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## RobH

This kit has become my favourite, for sheer simplicity and the type of flavour & results already discussed in this thread.
I am brewing in the house presently as the garage gets too cold for ales now & the yeast goes to sleep (had an ale drop to 12 deg with the Coopers yeast & had to bring it back into the house & up to 20 deg to get it moving again).

So right now on my desk at home next to my computer are two fermenters with Coopers English Bitter + 1.5 kg of light dried malt & the kit yeast - very simple to put together, and when bottling time comes around I will bulk prime with about 100gms of dex (in 20 litres of beer). The hardest part is waiting 2 - 3 months for bottle maturation, as I have noticed quite an improvement in flavour after a few months in bottles.

I have not yet tried adding hops, or steeping grains for this kit yet ... maybe next time I brew it I will try some of the above recipes


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## redunderthebed

Adamski29 said:


> Mate, seeing as you're in SA, why not order direct from Coopers Kit Cans
> 
> Too easy :icon_chickcheers:



Because the shipping is exorbitant $14 to get it from Adelaide to Port Lincoln **** off.


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## Adam Howard

redunderthebed said:


> Because the shipping is exorbitant $14 to get it from Adelaide to Port Lincoln **** off.



I pay $12 to get most stuff sent from Grain and Grape in Yarraville to me in Gembrook..around 84km's.

When you take into account that you're basically making $100 worth of beer for around $12-50 dollars...postage is bugger all. Especially if you farm your yeast.


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## redunderthebed

Adamski29 said:


> I pay $12 to get most stuff sent from Grain and Grape in Yarraville to me in Gembrook..around 84km's.
> 
> When you take into account that you're basically making $100 worth of beer for around $12-50 dollars...postage is bugger all. Especially if you farm your yeast.



True i might check it out on payday failing that i'm going to Adelaide soon...


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## RobH

You say you have K-Mart ... what about Coles then? 

In Penrith recently Iwent to K-Mart for Coopers tins & they had no English Bitter ... so I went next door to Coles & they had a larger range on the shelves of Coopers tins than K-Mart did (and i got my English Bitter from Coles!).


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## redunderthebed

RobH said:


> You say you have K-Mart ... what about Coles then?
> 
> In Penrith recently Iwent to K-Mart for Coopers tins & they had no English Bitter ... so I went next door to Coles & they had a larger range on the shelves of Coopers tins than K-Mart did (and i got my English Bitter from Coles!).



We have coles shall check it out.


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## zabond

second brew of EB
coops EB[ 10min light boil with grain juices to reduce bitterness a bit,dont know if it did]
300g ldme
150g carapils
50g caroma
150g caraberg
250g med crystal
250g golden syrup
500g be1
safo4 styrian gold plug dryhopped into ferm/ 20ltrs
ohboy very creamy thick head,nice deep red with full body mouth feel[lip licker]pine/citrus aroma not realy bitter but 5.9%AC :super:


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## Nevalicious

ZABOND said:


> second brew of EB
> coops EB[ 10min light boil with grain juices to reduce bitterness a bit,dont know if it did]
> 300g ldme
> 150g carapils
> 50g caroma
> 150g caraberg
> 250g med crystal
> 250g golden syrup
> 500g be1
> safo4 styrian gold plug dryhopped into ferm/ 20ltrs
> ohboy very creamy thick head,nice deep red with full body mouth feel[lip licker]pine/citrus aroma not realy bitter but 5.9%AC :super:



Sff 04 is definitely the best yeast for this kit I reckon... Redunderthebed, ditch the packet yeast (or add to the boil) and buy some of the saf 04. Cheapest, easiest improvement to the flavour profile of your kits. 

@ Zabond... ALOT of spec grains in there. Does it seem like they are trying to compete, or are they all working in unicen to create the beer you speak of... Have never experimented with so many different types of grain. The most I've put in a 21L batch is about 250g of crystal, that was heaps I reckon...


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## zabond

Nev I hope they are working together  
carapils gives a good creamy head,caroma a deeper red,caraberg smoother mouth feel and aroma,I like my beers to be on the malty side with good head retetion and taste lingering on the pallet,sorta Kilkenny/Guiness style


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## QIK86

ZABOND said:


> coops EB[ 10min light boil with grain juices to reduce bitterness a bit,dont know if it did]



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought boiling kits just drove off the flavour and aroma characteristics of the hops used in the kit, not the bitterness?


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## redunderthebed

RobH said:


> You say you have K-Mart ... what about Coles then?
> 
> In Penrith recently Iwent to K-Mart for Coopers tins & they had no English Bitter ... so I went next door to Coles & they had a larger range on the shelves of Coopers tins than K-Mart did (and i got my English Bitter from Coles!).



Huzzah!

I took your advice and checked out the local coles and they have it!. :beerbang: I did note with some irony that they have a larger range of homebrew gear than kmart owned by the same company go figure. :huh: 

Buying the kit on payday.

Also i like adding liquid malt would the light or the amber be better for it?. I was thinking because of the colour of the beer the amber stuff would be better and i was going to buy brew cellar english ale yeast for it.


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## Aussie Mick

First of all, sorry for dragging up an old thread, but I sampled my English Bitter tonight.

I brewed

1x Coopers English Bitter
1x KG LDM
25 gms Fuggles pellets steeped for 15 minutes then strained into fermenter
Safale 04 yeast

I had it bottled for 2 weeks, so I thought I would try a sneaky one tonight.

WOW. Of all the Coopers kits I've done so far, this is so good.

I had a few tonight, and it really suits my taste buds. The 750 ml bottles had been primed with the equivalent of 1 drop per bottle, and the beer had a tight creamy head that clung to the glass all the way down...........all this after just 2 weeks bottles.

I will be brewing this on a regular basis.


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## Brewnicorn

Sounds like a cracker Mick.


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## Stouter

I might revisit this one. I made one up a few months ago and added an extra 200g of molasses to the Coopers brew enhancer, then dry hopped with a Fuggles tea bag for the last half of the ferment.
Was very tasty and one of my few successes to date.


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## Dr Bee

This is my go to brew. Just the kit and BE#2. I use filtered water, and it has always come out with a great head that sticks to the sides of the glass all the way down. 

I always leave for a min of four weeks.

SWMBO tried some after our recent trip to NZ and cleaned up my supply. She has never liked my HB before, so it has started something I'm not sure I agree with. Although, I am happy to have turned her away from the expensive wine she has been drinking, but now she's drinking my fav. beer.

Sucks that it is now summer and the temps are getting too high to make a brew that doesn't taste. Bring back winter so I can control my temps!!


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## manticle

Buy her a fermenter, teach her how to make it.


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## Grott

It's my regular drinking drop as well however I use the Coopers liquid light malt extract, try that next time MICK"
Cheers


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## Aussie Mick

I will do Grott. I'm sure that can only improve it.


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