# Pilsner tips



## Michael (16/2/19)

Hello all
First time post. After a year or so of kits I bought a grainfather last October and have brewed some great beers since then (none of those from skill - just followed a recipe). My one failure was a strawberry ale which tasted a bit sour and had undetectable strawberries. 

Anyhow I’ve just purchased a keg master - just the fridge - mainly to keep my fermenting temperatures constant (in Perth the daily temp ranges can be extreme) and because I want to try a Pilsner. 

Apart from keeping fermenting temperatures low and constant does anyone have any sure fire tips for Pilsner brewing success?


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## stuartf (19/2/19)

Michael said:


> Hello all
> First time post. After a year or so of kits I bought a grainfather last October and have brewed some great beers since then (none of those from skill - just followed a recipe). My one failure was a strawberry ale which tasted a bit sour and had undetectable strawberries.
> 
> Anyhow I’ve just purchased a keg master - just the fridge - mainly to keep my fermenting temperatures constant (in Perth the daily temp ranges can be extreme) and because I want to try a Pilsner.
> ...


Keep the recipe simple, use a noble hop variety like hallertau for german or saaz for czech pils and make sure you have a healthy yeast starter. Also mash at a low temp (i usually go for 65C) to keep the finished beer dry.


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## ABG (20/2/19)

Read this thread. https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/help-getting-that-crisp-lager-taste.98507/ Gold.


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## Michael (20/2/19)

stuartf said:


> Keep the recipe simple, use a noble hop variety like hallertau for german or saaz for czech pils and make sure you have a healthy yeast starter. Also mash at a low temp (i usually go for 65C) to keep the finished beer dry.


Thanks


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## Michael (20/2/19)

ABG said:


> Read this thread. https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/help-getting-that-crisp-lager-taste.98507/ Gold.



Thanks - that is a great thread. I was getting dismayed when I was reading the posts about water composition - other than Campden tablets that's not really a route I want to go down. 

But then I read those great posts later on - esp the one from the guy who works in a German brewery (I think, without going back to check) and felt relieved that there were some v clear steps that could be taken before changing water composition.


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## Redreuben (28/2/19)

If your in Perth (I am) you might want to look at diluting your water with distilled to get the salt level down.


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## GordonB (1/3/19)

Redreuben said:


> If your in Perth (I am) you might want to look at diluting your water with distilled to get the salt level down.


I'm also in Perth, our water is rubbish. Depending where you live, water quality will vary from place to place. Most of our water is bore water which is dosed with calcium and the likes so there's a good chance that added "purifiers" are contributing to the taste. eg; if I don't wipe the water from the sink after I wash the dishes, the stainless steel is left with white stains, also when I shower I mop the floor afterwards because the grey tiles also stain. As a plumber I've also had to investigate high lead content in various areas and also worked at the desal plant at Naval Base. Naval base water mostly goes the goldfields so those poor bastards are drinking it. 
My suggestion to you is to install a whole of house water filtration system, gonna cost a bit tho. You may also consider a rain water tank, I have a 500l tank which I use for consumption, it's also very handy in winter as a cooling medium for the brews as it's open to the stars, but sealed from contaminants. May be even pre-boiling the water might help. I personally haven't had a lotta luck with pilseners but I'm gradually learning the art. Temp control is essential.


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## Dan Pratt (1/3/19)

The water is the driving factor for a great pils or lager style beer. If you can, get rain water from somehwere that comes from a new roof and into a modern plastic tank. Rain water will be nuetral for your minerals, and just adjust your pH with acidulated malt or lactic acid. 

Like mentioned keep it really simple with a pilsner malt at 100% for the first one and noble hops with a good 90mins boil. Hop additions at 90m, 45min and 15min, not adding too late as you want that malt aroma to come through in the final beer. 

Dont skimp on the yeast, *this is critical to getting a clean final beer* for a 20L batch, at least 3 packets. 

To make my lagers I use a single packet in an ale to ferment under pressure ( its called a fake blonde ) and I keep that yeast cake to make the lager, pitching at 8c letting it raise up to 10c, fermented out after 4-5days and I still do a diacytel rest at 16c for 3days to be sure. 

Good luck, I will follow the thread to see how you do.


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## Michael (1/3/19)

Great advice everyone - thanks.

1. Re water quality - I'm in the hills so my water will come from the Hills catchment - I suspect different from the coastal plain (not saying that it will be any better!). I added Campden to my last brew which seemed to reduce the chorine issue but I don't think I can face installing expensive filtration/rain water systems. In the end I suppose that I'll just avoid Pilsners if it tastes rank.
2. Just invested in a Keg Master fridge for controlling temps (hence the move to try out a pils) so that part should be OK.

Three additional questions:

1. With Pilsners does anyone have a definitive stepped mash regime? I've done a bit of research but everything seems to be a bit debatable.

2. Re Yeast - I was going to use a smack pack (liquid) yeast. Does this still require additional amounts or is it only for dried that you need to load up extras?

2. My target is to brew a lager-type beer - with low bitterness (trying to get my wife to drink it) - I went for pilsner but I did consider a few others, Does anyone have any suggestions as an alternative to Pilsners that might be less sensitive to local problems (such as water type)?


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## Dan Pratt (1/3/19)

Michael said:


> Great advice everyone - thanks.
> 
> 1. Re water quality - I'm in the hills so my water will come from the Hills catchment - I suspect different from the coastal plain (not saying that it will be any better!). I added Campden to my last brew which seemed to reduce the chorine issue but I don't think I can face installing expensive filtration/rain water systems. In the end I suppose that I'll just avoid Pilsners if it tastes rank.
> 2. Just invested in a Keg Master fridge for controlling temps (hence the move to try out a pils) so that part should be OK.
> ...




1 - just keep it simple for this one, mash in at 67c, keep at 65c for 60mins, raise to 71c and hold for 30mins, raise to 78c and hold for 30mins, lift the grain and sparge with required amount to get preboil volume

2 - if you are using liquid yeast, you will need to grow the amount of yeast, 800billion is my target, 450+ will probably be ok for any beer under 1050 gravity, but you will need more than just that packet to enable a clean fermentation at cold temperatures

3 - a lower bittering style lager is more like a helles ( my Fav ) which is usually about 5% and 20ibu. After a few reditions i went from 100% pils, to my final grain bill of 75% pils, 20% Vienna and 5% carapils, bittered only at 90min and 45mins, no late additions, just let the malt aroma come right through. 


Just so you know, brewing lagers are one of the most difficult styles to get right. good luck


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## Michael (1/3/19)

Thanks - Mash in at 67 then 65? So lowering the temp? Or was that a typo and mash in is at 65 then keep it there...?


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## Dan Pratt (1/3/19)

Michael said:


> Thanks - Mash in at 67 then 65? So lowering the temp? Or was that a typo and mash in is at 65 then keep it there...?



When you mash in the malt is typically at room temp and the water temp will drop when the malt is mashed in. 

So you aim for a mash in at about 2-3c higher than the target mash temp so to hit the target temp.

Being that you have a GF you can mash in at 65c, it will drop to 62-63 and start to ramp up when you have the system running to the target temp.


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## Michael (1/3/19)

Got it - thanks.


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## Michael (1/3/19)

Dan Pratt said:


> 1 - just keep it simple for this one, mash in at 67c, keep at 65c for 60mins, raise to 71c and hold for 30mins, raise to 78c and hold for 30mins, lift the grain and sparge with required amount to get preboil volume
> 
> 2 - if you are using liquid yeast, you will need to grow the amount of yeast, 800billion is my target, 450+ will probably be ok for any beer under 1050 gravity, but you will need more than just that packet to enable a clean fermentation at cold temperatures
> 
> ...



One other thing - if I decided to go for the Helles - which I'm happy to do - would you use the same mash steps as you mentioned for the pilsner?


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## GordonB (1/3/19)

GordonB said:


> I'm also in Perth, our water is rubbish. Depending where you live, water quality will vary from place to place. Most of our water is bore water which is dosed with calcium and the likes so there's a good chance that added "purifiers" are contributing to the taste. eg; if I don't wipe the water from the sink after I wash the dishes, the stainless steel is left with white stains, also when I shower I mop the floor afterwards because the grey tiles also stain. As a plumber I've also had to investigate high lead content in various areas and also worked at the desal plant at Naval Base. Naval base water mostly goes the goldfields so those poor bastards are drinking it.
> My suggestion to you is to install a whole of house water filtration system, gonna cost a bit tho. You may also consider a rain water tank, I have a 500l tank which I use for consumption, it's also very handy in winter as a cooling medium for the brews as it's open to the stars, but sealed from contaminants. May be even pre-boiling the water might help. I personally haven't had a lotta luck with pilseners but I'm gradually learning the art. Temp control is essential.



When I wrote about the goldfields drinking desal water; This water goes to Mundaring Weir where it's pumped to the goldfields, whether your water comes from the hills or bore water you're either getting that by gravitation or pumped up by the water corp. Working at the desal plant we learned that 6 tons ie 6000kgs go into the process each day, also some sulphuric acid who knows what else? Our job was to replace cooling cools in the A/C units, after 3 years the water from the plant corroded the copper coils which leaked profusely. After that they had to treat the cooling water not to corrode, just like your car's radiator. We had a good winter last, but that can't satisfy Perth's demands for long as the dams are far to small for our population already.


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## Dan Pratt (4/3/19)

Michael said:


> One other thing - if I decided to go for the Helles - which I'm happy to do - would you use the same mash steps as you mentioned for the pilsner?



yes same profile


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## Michael (4/3/19)

Ok - brew day today. May have fallen at the first hurdle. 

In the end my grain was 4.6kg of Pilsner malt only. 

Two days ago I prepared a yeast starter with s23 (I think - I threw the packet away but it was yellow and a lager/pils yeast). I read after I started the yeast that you probably shouldn’t do this with dried yeast (or don’t need to). 
I also bought wyeast 2278 (Czech pils) smack pack. 

I used this stepped mash regime https://byo.com/article/the-science-of-step-mashing/ (third mash line graph - Pilsner/dry lager). 

After the boil (saaz at 75 mins, 10 mins and 0 mins) I chilled it through the usual chiller down to about 20. This is when I noticed the problem - OG 1038 when it should have been 1048. Don’t know what happened - no dough balls. Then I put the fermenter in the fridge for 4 hours to get the temp down to about 10. 

Then I pitched the starter from the S23 and the wyeast snack pack - which was smacked at the start of the day. 

It’s now sitting in the fridge at 10.


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## Michael (5/3/19)

Update 24 hours in - bubbling nicely at 8 degrees.


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## Paddy Melon (6/3/19)

Hi Michael, I'm also in Perth and a couple of years before I started brewing ( I'm still brewing kits mainly lagers which I love, and ales, and stouts and.....well I like them all), I installed an under sink water 2 water activated carbon filter system which wasn't too expensive, from memory, and I really think it makes a difference to the beer quality given discussions I've had with others. As proof of its effectiveness we had an electric kettle which had built up a lot of white calcified stuff inside, after installing the filter system we found after a few weeks we had a new kettle. All the build up had gone and it had reverted to "as new".


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## Michael (6/3/19)

Thanks - good to know and I'll keep in mind. I'll taste my beer first!


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## Michael (11/5/19)

Ok. First taste today. 
I lagered it for 6 or 7 weeks at about 2 degrees. 

Couldn’t in all of that time get it clear - I read a thread saying that the yeast I used is prone to cloudiness but not sure. 
Other problem is that the ABV is about 3% - so another problem with OG 

But the taste is great - very pleased


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## Redreuben (11/5/19)

Cool, just label it Hefe Pils. 



See what I did there ? Cool Lager. 
Pmsl


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## krz (11/5/19)

I have just successfully done a pressurised Pilsner using wlp800 at 17C.
It really is a pilsner.
At one stage, the fermentation stalled (20 psi), I released the pressure down to about 3, and it started again.
FG was 1.012, OG was 1.053.

Putting it out there, maybe you dont have to wait that long.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (14/5/19)

krz said:


> I have just successfully done a pressurised Pilsner using wlp800 at 17C.
> It really is a pilsner.
> At one stage, the fermentation stalled (20 psi), I released the pressure down to about 3, and it started again.
> FG was 1.012, OG was 1.053.
> ...



Agreed. I’m currently doing a Pilsner at work with White Labs Pilsner yeast.

I’ve been tinkering with fast lager ferments by starting at 14c with a good healthy starter. Pre pressurise the vessel with oxygen to 10psi and connect a sounding valve at the same pressure. After a good Krausen has formed, I ramp it up to 15, then 1c everyday thereafter until I hit diacetyl rest temps where I hold until fermentation has finished (usually day 10) before cold crashing to 0c for 2 days with gelatine before kegging. No ‘lagering’ needed as the beer is crystal clear without perceptible off flavours.


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