# Koppafloc Vs Whirlfloc



## Smashin (5/10/09)

I've always used koppa floc for my kettle finnings, initially i s'pose based on the guise of being a more commercially effective product. Can anyone proved some technical backing as to which process aid is more effective for beer stability and chill haze supression without detracting from mouth feel and hop utilisation in the final beer. I feel its time to challange old habits in the brew haus.

Thanks in advance.

Smashin. :icon_cheers:


----------



## raven19 (5/10/09)

I have only ever used Whirlfloc.

Sometimes I forget to add it!

Yet to do any side by side comparisons though so cant expand further on your particular query unfortunately.


----------



## bear09 (3/10/11)

I was going to start a new post on this until I ran a search and found this thread. 

All I am doing now is providing a BUMP to see if anything springs up on this topic.

I have never used Whirfloc - only Koppafloc.


----------



## mje1980 (3/10/11)

I've used both. Both seem to work the same, though I haven't done amy scientific testing.


----------



## MHB (3/10/11)

Have at various times I have used both, as well as raw Irish Moss, now Im using Brew Bright
All four contain Carrageenan; Whirlfloc also contains a dispersant that helps to spread the flocking agent around the kettle.
Brew Bright is a more refined product with just the most active part of the Irish Moss selected (Kappa-Carrageenan) and PVPP to help reduce chill haze.
If we include raw Irish Moss in the four commonly available kettle finings I dont think it matters a dam which one you choose provided you use it properly. They all contain the same active ingredient (for kettle fining) so it comes down to effectiveness ease of use, value for money and availability.

There has been a lot written on this subject here on AHB, I know because I remember writing a fair bit of it and posting a bunch of links so doing a bit more searching might be a good idea!
A few points
Carrageenan is only soluble above 60oC, thats why we add it to the kettle; its main effect is to settle cold break after the wort cools.
There is a Right dose, too little or too much both causes problems. Thats great for a big brewery where they make the same beer over and over and can pin down the optimum amount for each beer, its a lot harder for us as home brewers who rarely make the same beer twice running, we just have to take a stab at what we think will work. Considering that most home brewers seem to measure in teaspoons that may be fairly moot anyway, when we talk about Whirlfloc remember that half of the tablet is dispersant and half is Irish Moss the dose is around 1 tablet / 25 Litres of wort (well a tablet is too little and 2 would be too much (mostly)).
MHB


----------



## Nick JD (3/10/11)

I've found with whirlfloc and my process, putting it in with 20 minutes to go is kinda like not putting it in at all. 

5 minutes before "flameout" and I'm pouring wort into my fermenter with 30 meters visibility. 

Haven't noticed any differences in head or body with, without, or when it's put in there. Pretty sure if your kettle finings are killing your head your mash needs looking at.


----------



## bear09 (3/10/11)

Thanks fellas for the replies. I guess Ill just have to tinker with it.

My biggest issue atm is chill haze. I have tried some polyclar and it has helped but it shits me that I even need it.

When I put down G&G artisinal FWK's which are no chilled they NEVER have chill haze. No polyclar - no nothing - the yeast always drops out leaving a clear beer behind.

Clearly something in their brewing process is causing this. From what John tells me (in his best interests to lie but I seriously dont think he does) they DONT do a protein rest on their artisinals (well the ones made @ mountain goat anyhow). I dont know if they use whirfloc, koppafloc, brewbright or whatever.

I use a 3v system, I pay very close attention to temps, water chemistry, sanitisation, recirc - bloody everything. Still chill haze gets me and I was hoping that someone would respond and say "Oh when I used Koppafloc I always get chill haze but when I used brewbright/whirfloc I had no issues..." No such luck but thanks anyhow!

Cheers.


----------



## bear09 (3/10/11)

Thanks fellas for the replies. I guess Ill just have to tinker with it.

My biggest issue atm is chill haze. I have tried some polyclar and it has helped but it shits me that I even need it.

When I put down G&G artisinal FWK's which are no chilled they NEVER have chill haze. No polyclar - no nothing - the yeast always drops out leaving a clear beer behind.

Clearly something in their brewing process is causing this. From what John tells me (in his best interests to lie but I seriously dont think he does) they DONT do a protein rest on their artisinals (well the ones made @ mountain goat anyhow). I dont know if they use whirfloc, koppafloc, brewbright or whatever.

I use a 3v system, I pay very close attention to temps, water chemistry, sanitisation, recirc - bloody everything. Still chill haze gets me and I was hoping that someone would respond and say "Oh when I used Koppafloc I always get chill haze but when I used brewbright/whirfloc I had no issues..." No such luck but thanks anyhow!

Cheers.


----------



## Logman (3/10/11)

I've been filtering for about 6 months and find it a huge PITA -also have used Polyclar at different times. After reading the Gelatine thread, I've changed to Koppafloch, no filter, then putting it into a keg in my Keezer, start the carbing (slow method) and after a few days let the gas out, take off the release valve and squirt gelatine through the hole with a small syringe, put the valve back on, shake and hook the gas back up - leave it for another week. Never seen beer so clear, not even commercial, I can see what's on the TV from about 10 feet away and it tastes fantastic


----------



## MHB (3/10/11)

bear09 said:


> Thanks fellas for the replies. I guess Ill just have to tinker with it.
> 
> My biggest issue atm is chill haze. I have tried some polyclar and it has helped but it shits me that I even need it.
> 
> ...



Take a long hard look at your Calcium levels!
I know you are playing with your water chemistry but it sounds like Calcium, try a second addition in the kettle.
Send me an email and Ill give you some stuff to test (free, Im looking for feedback on a new product)
M


----------



## CosmicBertie (3/10/11)

MHB said:


> Take a long hard look at your Calcium levels!
> I know you are playing with your water chemistry but it sounds like Calcium, try a second addition in the kettle.
> Send me an email and Ill give you some stuff to test (free, Im looking for feedback on a new product)
> M




I'm guessing that you mean theres too little Calcium? I've always added Calcium Chloride (2 tsp) to my ales and they all have chill haze. If I leave the beer to warm up some, then they clear up to a certain degree.

(If I send you an email, do I get a freebie to comment on too? Pretty please?  )


----------



## bear09 (3/10/11)

Logman said:


> I've been filtering for about 6 months and find it a huge PITA -also have used Polyclar at different times. After reading the Gelatine thread, I've changed to Koppafloch, no filter, then putting it into a keg in my Keezer, start the carbing (slow method) and after a few days let the gas out, take off the release valve and squirt gelatine through the hole with a small syringe, put the valve back on, shake and hook the gas back up - leave it for another week. Never seen beer so clear, not even commercial, I can see what's on the TV from about 10 feet away and it tastes fantastic



Im sold on this point - I am going to try this for absolute sure!! Thank you!!!!!





MHB said:


> Take a long hard look at your Calcium levels!
> I know you are playing with your water chemistry but it sounds like Calcium, try a second addition in the kettle.
> Send me an email and Ill give you some stuff to test (free, Im looking for feedback on a new product)
> M



Thanks so much for the offer here mate but I shall respectfully decline. I dont want to introduce yet another variable for something to go wrong with. Seriously though - thank you - I really appreciate your advice and offer of support.

My calcium is in check both in the mash and in the kettle (I make additions to both). I have had water analysis conducted on my water and I have spent many an hour ensuring that I have the right levels of calcium. I shall try the gelatine method quoted above to start and then come back to finish. 

Any further comments on this though - please keep em coming!!!!


----------



## CosmicBertie (3/10/11)

I use gelatine, it helps to clear out the solids, but not the chill haze.


----------



## MHB (3/10/11)

Cosmic Bertie and anyone else interested

Sure, Im milling a 5 Kg batch today or tomorrow and would like some people to test the product, anyone interested send me an email.
As mentioned in another thread recently I believe there is no single magic bullet that fixes chill haze (or just plain haze) its a whole of brewery approach. To make great beer you need to do everything right at every step in the process.
Hopefully I have developed a product that makes one part of that easier.
MHB


----------

