# Review: 2nd Attempt At Real Lager - Thomas Coopers Heritage Lager With



## waggastew (9/9/10)

My fifth homebrew and my second attempt at a proper lager yeast. Lager/pilsener style made to the following recipe:

1 x Thomas Coopers Heritage Selection Lager
1kg Coopers BE1
14g bag of Hallertau Finishing Hops
S189 Swiss Lager Yeast

Brewed at 10-12 degC for 3 weeks (OG 1042/FG 1012). Let it warm up to 18degC for the last few days just to finish it off. Bottled in PET straight from primary with 4.6g sucrose (a level teaspoon). Has been in the bottle at room temp since 16/7/10, making it a bit under 2 months old.












Tasting Notes: Pours a nice golden lager colour. Carbonation is spot on, nice head with small bubbles. Very distinct smell of the Hallertau finishing hops. A generally dry palate with a slight hint of residual sweetness. I am unsure if that is the maltodex or a character of the yeast? Will have to wait until next winters lagers to find out. Very clean palate and not even a hint of sulfur from this yeast. Definite Aussie Lager/POR hint to this, maybe a bit confusing alongside the Hallertau.

Overall I think it is a good base for an Aussie style lager. If you are aiming for a Euro lager I would recommend using Morgans Blue Mountain lager or similar. For newbies keen to give real lager yeast a go I reckon its worth having a crack in winter when temp control is no probs.

Stew


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## Screwtop (9/9/10)

waggastew said:


> My fifth homebrew and my second attempt at a proper lager yeast. Lager/pilsener style made to the following recipe:
> 
> 1 x Thomas Coopers Heritage Selection Lager
> 1kg Coopers BE1
> ...




Looks great, you took the time and did things correctly, so no surprise!

Well done,

Screwy


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## Lecterfan (9/9/10)

Thursday is a dry day, I should not have read this post. I will NOT have a beer before bed, I will NOT have a beer before bed... :icon_drool2:


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## BjornJ (9/9/10)

Good work on the lager, sounds like you have done a brilliant job!

The residual sweetness may be the maltodextrin, as you are saying.
The Coopers Brew Enhancer #1 contains 250 gr Maltodextrin and 750 gr of dextrose.
The maltodextrin is only 5% fermentable, so 95% of the 250 gr of "sugar" is left in the finished beer to give body.

Guessing if you had used dextrose only it would have ended a couple of gravity points lower, with a slightly thinner or dryer finish. 
Maybe try it with all dextrose or all malt extract next time just to compare?

I want one now  


Bjorn


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## Lecterfan (9/9/10)

BjornJ said:


> I want one now




Bloody cruel to include that pic isn't it?


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## waggastew (9/9/10)

Thanks guys. Its usually a Dry Thursday here too but the temptation to try the new brew after 8 weeks maturing was too much. The other reason was I swapped a bottle of this for another one with a guy from work today who has just brewed the same kit. I was a bit worried giving it to him without tasting first, so I just had to make sure it was drinkable.........

BjornJ, will definitely try with no maltodex next time. I did not want to use malt as I didn't want alot of body. Maybe a dex/malt mix might be a better combo? I would think this beer would be spot on for a commercial Aussie lager without the hallertau (replace with a tiny bit of POR?) and with a drier finish.


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## Screwtop (9/9/10)

Lecterfan said:


> Thursday is a dry day, I should not have read this post. I will NOT have a beer before bed, I will NOT have a beer before bed... :icon_drool2:



HaHa, it's Beerday Tomorrow!!!!!!!!



waggastew said:


> Thanks guys. Its usually a Dry Thursday here too but the temptation to try the new brew after 8 weeks maturing was too much. The other reason was I swapped a bottle of this for another one with a guy from work today who has just brewed the same kit. I was a bit worried giving it to him without tasting first, so I just had to make sure it was drinkable.........
> 
> BjornJ, will definitely try with no maltodex next time. I did not want to use malt as I didn't want alot of body. Maybe a dex/malt mix might be a better combo? I would think this beer would be spot on for a commercial Aussie lager without the hallertau (replace with a tiny bit of POR?) and with a drier finish.




Does the sweetness resemble something like honey, Hallertau smells/tastes a little similar to honey to my palate.

Screwy


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## BjornJ (9/9/10)

I am sure it's great as it is, maybe do it again with malt extract and/ or dextrose just to taste the difference?

The couple of times I have split a batch into two fermenters and tried different yeasts, or with/without dry hopping, with/without finings, etc I find it really interesting just to be able to compare the results.
Kind of feels like I have invented the wheel. Single handedly. :lol: 

Pride of Ringwood should help with the Aussie Lager taste for sure.
ThirstyBoy has put some really good posts on here about how the commercial Aussie lagers are made, and then it's increasing temp over "normal" lager temps, brewing higher gravity and diluting after fermentation, and sugar and Pride of Ringwood on the ingredients list.

thanks
Bjorn


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## waggastew (10/9/10)

Screwtop - The sweetness is definitely left over/unfermentable sugars of some sort as I got the same thing with my previous lager that had no Hallertau. As discussed I think its likely to be a feature of the S-189 yeast or the BE1 I used. In an ale I think it would be a nice feature but I was kind of aiming for a slightly drier style with the lager. Next year I might try to do a few things differently to get the desired result:

1. I think I will try Cal 2112 Lager Liquid Yeast. It apparently gives nice results while not being too temp sensitive.
2. I might do a short hop boil will some Hallertau to get a bit more hop bite
3. Definitely try dex/malt mix and leave out any maltodex

As I said in the review I would happily drink this years version but there is always something you want to tinker with! I am planning on doing the split batch with a Belgian Wit in a month or two, half plain, half with passionfruit pulp from my garden. I am hoping the 2nd one does not turn out like wheaty Passiona!


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

waggastew said:


> Screwtop - The sweetness is definitely left over/unfermentable sugars of some sort as I got the same thing with my previous lager that had no Hallertau. As discussed I think its likely to be a feature of the S-189 yeast or the BE1 I used. In an ale I think it would be a nice feature but I was kind of aiming for a slightly drier style with the lager. Next year I might try to do a few things differently to get the desired result:
> 
> 1. I think I will try Cal 2112 Lager Liquid Yeast. It apparently gives nice results while not being too temp sensitive.
> 2. I might do a short hop boil will some Hallertau to get a bit more hop bite
> ...




As brewers we continually move the goalposts :lol: the result is better beer in the long run, or, beer better suited to the brewer. And we should brew beer we like to drink after all.

You're the one tasting the beer, not saying you are wrong but maybe something else is causing the perception of sweetness. In the OP you listed the FG as 1.012 indicating there is not that much sugar/sweetness left in the beer. The beer has attenuated fairly well at 71% and finishing at SG 1.012 or 3Plato (3g per 100ml of beer) indicates there is around 690g total of unfermented sugar/s in your batch of beer, fairly average. Plenty of beers produced by brewers here on AHB and commercially finish above G 1.012 and do not taste sweet. Lager yeast certainly has the ability to ferment more complex sugars than the majority of ale yeasts, this is the reason behind my thinking that the sweetness is due to some other issue. Could be the beer is a little out of balance (not enough bitterness) and tastes a little sweet or it could be something else, maybe diacetyl. Do whatever you like to modify your beer in the future, simply hoping to shed some light on what may be the likely cause of the issue for you. Don't believe the yeast is to blame as I have used this yeast in the past. 

Cheers,

Screwy


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