# Base Porter recipe to build on



## Nizmoose (31/12/14)

Hey guys so I haven't brewed a porter yet but would love to try and so I did some reading and research and have got a really drafty recipe together and would like some advice. Firstly the type of porter I'm going for is something where the coffee and chocolate notes shine through, slight roast notes also good but more about the chocolate and coffee and little bitterness (but enough to balance the beer) I don't just want a sugarbomb sweetness wise I do want balance. So heres my draft so far, the link is to the recipe on brewtoad which gives a good overview:
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/base-porter-7

Brown Porter:
10L into fermenter
All-grain
BIAB


Grain:
- 2kg / 86% Ale Malt (2L) 
- 150g / 6% Dark Chocolate (400L)
- 150g / 6% CaraAroma (130L)
Note: both chocolate and CaraAroma cold steeped overnight before brewday.

Hops:
- 25g Fuggle 5%AA @60mins
- 10g EKG 5%AA @0mins

Yeast:
English Ale Yeast WLP002

Vital Statistics:
OG: 1.055
FG:1.018
IBU:27
ABV:4.8%
SRM:/EBC:28/55
IBU/OG: 0.5 (Balanced)


----------



## keifer33 (31/12/14)

I would definitely be including some Brown Malt as it's a pretty key ingredient in my opinion.


----------



## Nizmoose (31/12/14)

Okay thanks for that, what does it bring to the table and how much percentage wise would you include?


----------



## warra48 (31/12/14)

Definitely agree with the Brown Malt. 

Here's a cracker which is sort of my dark house brew. Never fails me.


----------



## Nizmoose (31/12/14)

warra48 said:


> Definitely agree with the Brown Malt.
> 
> Here's a cracker which is sort of my dark house brew. Never fails me.
> 
> Brown Porter.JPG


Cheers warra what sort of character does that have? Is it heavy on the chocolate / coffee or more of the roast?


----------



## Nizmoose (31/12/14)

It's probably important to mention I'm really trying to nut out a fairly simple base which I can tweak and add intricacies to after a first attempt.


----------



## keifer33 (31/12/14)

It's more on the coffee side of things. Here is a good write up and also includes a few recipes for comparison. 

http://byo.com/porter/item/1751-brown-malt


----------



## kevo (31/12/14)

Listen to this

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Brown-Porter-The-Jamil-Show-10-22-07


----------



## warra48 (31/12/14)

My recipe is fairly well balanced between coffee and chocolate, with subtle roast character, but nothing like a Stout.
Mash at 67 or 68ºC, and you'll be fine.


----------



## warra48 (31/12/14)

kevo said:


> Listen to this
> 
> http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Brown-Porter-The-Jamil-Show-10-22-07


I developed my recipe after listening to this. Well worth a listen.


----------



## JasonP (31/12/14)

Nizmoose said:


> Hey guys so I haven't brewed a porter yet but would love to try and so I did some reading and research and have got a really drafty recipe together and would like some advice. Firstly the type of porter I'm going for is something where the coffee and chocolate notes shine through, slight roast notes also good but more about the chocolate and coffee and little bitterness (but enough to balance the beer) I don't just want a sugarbomb sweetness wise I do want balance. So heres my draft so far, the link is to the recipe on brewtoad which gives a good overview:
> https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/base-porter-7
> Brown Porter:
> 10L into fermenter
> ...


Looks ok but you'll want fg lower than that.


----------



## Nizmoose (31/12/14)

keifer33 said:


> It's more on the coffee side of things. Here is a good write up and also includes a few recipes for comparison.
> 
> http://byo.com/porter/item/1751-brown-malt


Thanks for this had a read and it was helpful thanks again!



kevo said:


> Listen to this
> 
> http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Brown-Porter-The-Jamil-Show-10-22-07


Cheers will give this a listen soon!



warra48 said:


> My recipe is fairly well balanced between coffee and chocolate, with subtle roast character, but nothing like a Stout.
> Mash at 67 or 68ºC, and you'll be fine.


Okay awesome that's what I'm after



JasonP said:


> Looks ok but you'll want fg lower than that.


Thanks for the advice, so less chocolate and CaraAroma for more pale Malt?


----------



## JasonP (31/12/14)

Nizmoose said:


> Thanks for this had a read and it was helpful thanks again!
> Cheers will give this a listen soon!
> Okay awesome that's what I'm after
> 
> Thanks for the advice, so less chocolate and CaraAroma for more pale Malt?


No need to adjust malt bill to attenuate to lower gravity. Mash around 66/67 and pitch enough yeast and should be ok. I too like brown malt in porters but your malt bill is fine.


----------



## Nizmoose (2/1/15)

JasonP said:


> No need to adjust malt bill to attenuate to lower gravity. Mash around 66/67 and pitch enough yeast and should be ok. I too like brown malt in porters but your malt bill is fine.


Okay cheers I've changed the grain bill slightly to include some brown malt, changes in figures from the original recipes will be bold:

Grain:
- 2kg / 86% Ale Malt (2L) 
- * 100g / 4% Dark Chocolate (400L) *
- * 100g / 4% CaraAroma (130L) *
- * 100g / 4% Brown Malt (60L) *
Note: both chocolate and CaraAroma cold steeped overnight before brewday.

Hops:
- 25g Fuggle 5%AA @60mins
- 10g EKG 5%AA @0mins

Yeast:
English Ale Yeast WLP002

Vital Statistics:
OG: 1.055
FG:1.018
IBU:27
ABV:4.8%
SRM:/EBC:28/55
IBU/OG: 0.5 (Balanced)


----------



## Nizmoose (3/1/15)

kevo said:


> Listen to this
> 
> http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Brown-Porter-The-Jamil-Show-10-22-07


Gave this a listen last night and it was very helpful although Jamil (who I havent listened to much of) definitely seems like a bit of an up himself dick lol, anyway good advice nonetheless and I have made some further changes to the recipe.

1. Changed the Dark Chocolate to Pale Chocolate to swing away from really acrid roast to more chocolate
2. Switched to Dry English Ale Liquid Yeast to bring the FG down to 1.013
3. Changed all specialty malt quantities to 150g to bring the colour up
4. Brought the Pale Malt down t0 1.8kg or 80% in order to brng the OG down to 1.053

Pretty happy with it now and this will probably be the final recipe I use on the day. I like drafting recipes several times and think in many cases I've avoided making very average beers to learn lessons from by learning them before I make it. Hopefully I've created an acceptable recipe for a chocolatey coffee-ish porter thats well balanced. Cheers for all the help guys, any more suggestions and/or advice is greatly apprecieated! Cheers


----------



## Chris7 (2/2/15)

How did this one end up Nizmoose?


----------



## Nizmoose (4/2/15)

Yet to brew! Unfortunately I've been fairly busy and got a grain order for my pacific ale horribly wrong so ordering ingredients for both the pacific ale and the porter tomorrow, brew day for the porter will hopefully be next week some time!


----------



## Chris7 (4/2/15)

Ah that's a shame. I look forward to hearing how it goes. My next brew is going to be a porter, just waiting on PID etc for the brewery before going ahead with it.


----------



## Nizmoose (4/2/15)

Chris7 said:


> Ah that's a shame. I look forward to hearing how it goes. My next brew is going to be a porter, just waiting on PID etc for the brewery before going ahead with it.


Oh very nice! This will be my first dark beer I've made on purpose (see grain order mistake above) so I'm looking forward to seeing how it tastes, I haven't had many dark beers before so I'm not quite sure what to expect but hoping its good. I'll definitely update this thread once its brewed and again once it is tasted! Let us know how yours goes as well!


----------



## Nizmoose (15/2/15)

Chris7 said:


> How did this one end up Nizmoose?


Okay Chris brew day was today and it seemed to go well! It was a BIAB with a half arsed 2L sparge (I literally just poured some 30C water over the grains as they drained into a bucket). So my recipe was as follows just as a reminder:

-1.8kg Ale Malt
-150g Chocolate Malt
-150g CaraAroma
-150g Brown Malt

-25g Fuggle @60mins
-10g EKG @ 0 mins
-Nottingham yeast
-10L into the fermenter

Heres my granny spec mash setup lol



Heres the delicious wort, looks awesome



Heres what Im fermenting in, to anyone reading is this okay with the lid on like this? its a pretty good seal but I'm assuming co2 will get out? If not I better drill a hole quick smart lol

In my next post later tonight I'll upload a photo of my sheet with all my numbers on it but so far so good!


----------



## Nizmoose (15/2/15)

Here's the sheet with all my numbers. Ended up with a mash efficiency of 85.96% which is my best effort so far I think.


----------



## Chris7 (16/2/15)

Ah good stuff, mate. Look forward to hearing how the end result tastes. Also congrats on the efficiency, that's awesome. 
Still waiting on my PID etc. before I can get my brew on, has been in Sydney for a week now. Guessing it's just held up in customs.


----------



## technobabble66 (16/2/15)

Old school pen and paper. Respect!
Congrats on almost busting 86% eff. 
Let us know how the tastings go. 

Ps: don't drill a hole in the lid. Toss the lid and use gladwrap. Much, much easier. I, too, was a lid-wielding skeptic once.


----------



## technobabble66 (16/2/15)

Just saw your earlier post. Recipe looks like it'll be a rip snorter. Particularly after a few months in the bottle. 

I can see what you mean with the lid now. 
If you've kept it, just don't have the lid pushed down tight. I think I have the same bucket as a mash tun and the lid sits on well without needing to push it down - co2 will easily escape. If it was on tight/hard it'd maybe be airtight and that would become bad in the next 24hrs. 
So if you keep the lid, drill a hole and lightly lay a piece of duct tape over it. Otherwise put a piece of gladwrap over it and hold it on with a couple of rubber bands. 
If you've got cats, dogs or kids, maybe keep the lid for now. You definitely don't want any kittens in your fermenter. :lol:


----------



## Nizmoose (16/2/15)

Chris7 said:


> Ah good stuff, mate. Look forward to hearing how the end result tastes. Also congrats on the efficiency, that's awesome.
> Still waiting on my PID etc. before I can get my brew on, has been in Sydney for a week now. Guessing it's just held up in customs.


Annoying, hopefully it turns up soon! 



technobabble66 said:


> Just saw your earlier post. Recipe looks like it'll be a rip snorter. Particularly after a few months in the bottle.
> 
> I can see what you mean with the lid now.
> If you've kept it, just don't have the lid pushed down tight. I think I have the same bucket as a mash tun and the lid sits on well without needing to push it down - co2 will easily escape. If it was on tight/hard it'd maybe be airtight and that would become bad in the next 24hrs.
> ...


Yeah I drilled a hole and chucked a spare airlock in, haven't used an airlock since my first brew and the entertainment factor hasn't died, no kids or pets to worry about either, 21 and still at home so my room has just turned into a fermentation chamber. It's been going pretty nuts since early this morning which is good now the waiting game


----------



## Samuel Adams (16/2/15)

Nizmoose said:


> Annoying, hopefully it turns up soon!
> 
> Yeah I drilled a hole and chucked a spare airlock in, haven't used an airlock since my first brew and the entertainment factor hasn't died, no kids or pets to worry about either, 21 and still at home so my room has just turned into a fermentation chamber. It's been going pretty nuts since early this morning which is good now the waiting game


21 and you're brewing a porter, well done mate !
I was chugging down Corona's & Jim Beam & cola's at that age.

Recipe looks good too, I'm researching porters and have come up with a recipe pretty close to that.
Let us know how it turns out !


----------



## Nizmoose (16/2/15)

Samuel Adams said:


> 21 and you're brewing a porter, well done mate !
> I was chugging down Corona's & Jim Beam & cola's at that age.
> 
> Recipe looks good too, I'm researching porters and have come up with a recipe pretty close to that.
> Let us know how it turns out !


Haha cheers, I've been lucky enough to discover good beer fairly early which is nice, trying to convert the mates is a tough gig but I'm slowly weaning them onto galaxy bombs and Amarillo pale ales haha. I will definitely post back here with some tasting notes once it's all said and done!


----------



## Reman (15/3/15)

Hey Niz, I would be interested in hearing how this ended up?


----------



## Nizmoose (15/3/15)

Reman said:


> Hey Niz, I would be interested in hearing how this ended up?


Hi Reman I am yet to try it yet as it's only two weeks in the bottle so far but there is one in the fridge I might have a try of tonight and I'll let you know!


----------



## Nizmoose (16/3/15)

Reman said:


> Hey Niz, I would be interested in hearing how this ended up?


Okay I'm drinking this as I type. Firstly here's a picture, I did pour a bit too vigorously but it does look good. 




Now I'll start by saying I'm young and naturally not used to dark beers but this is really tasting fantastic just 2 weeks old! Aroma: there's a bit of chocolate and I can't pick up much hop but this is my first beer with fuggles and EKG so I might just be missing it either way it's a nice smelling beer. Taste: perfect for what I'm aiming for which is a base porter to build on and try different things with, it tastes like the perfect porter base clean slate for any other flavour you want to add, I'll be trying chilli, chocolate and coffee additions to future batches and I think this lends itself to any of those. It's malty, slightly roasty but definitely not heavy on the roast and easy drinking for sure, no real back end bitterness but I'm thankful for that in a porter. I wouldn't say it's sweet I'd say well balanced but Malt forward. I don't think I'd add any more roast to it but I'm not a fan of stout like roast so others may like more. I definitely want more chocolatey coffee ish flavours which I plan on getting from cacao and real coffee additions in the fermenter. Like I said I'm not a fan of dark beers almost by default due to my age and palate but this is one of the best beers I think I've made. Carbonation is bang on, aimed for 1.7 vols I think and seemed to get in the ballpark. Can't wait to taste it at 1 month in the bottle.


----------



## Reman (25/3/15)

Using your recipe as a base this is what I brewed over the weekend, I think it's pretty close to your base recipe so I'm hoping it turns out similarly.

Style: Brown Porter (12A)
Boil Size: 14.98 l	Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 54.4 EBC	Equipment: Pot 15l - BIAB to 10l
Bitterness: 30.0 IBUs	Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.055 (13.5° P)	Mash Profile: BIAB, Medium Body
Est FG: 1.015 SG (3.8° P)	Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
ABV: 5.3%

Amount	Name	Type	#
2.32 kg	Voyager Pale Malt (4.5 EBC)	Grain	1
278.5 g	Voyager Brown Malt (180.0 EBC)	Grain	2
183.8 g	Voyager Chocolate Malt (900.0 EBC)	Grain	3
29.3 g	Fuggles [4.5%] - Boil 60 min	Hops	4
11.7 g	Goldings, East Kent [5.0%] - Boil 15 min	Hops	5
1 pkgs	SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04)	Yeast	6

I ended up at an SG of 1.058, so I may need to up my efficiency in Beersmith.

I also took the chance to use the Australian grown Voyager malts and I also cold steeped the Brown and Chocolate malts before adding for the last 10 minutes before mash out. Mashed around 68 which I though might help for a nice chewy porter.

I'll update with how it goes, currently in the fermenter at about 17 (learning from my attempt at an ESB that was undrinkable after fermenting at 24)


----------



## Nizmoose (26/3/15)

Reman said:


> Using your recipe as a base this is what I brewed over the weekend, I think it's pretty close to your base recipe so I'm hoping it turns out similarly.
> 
> Style: Brown Porter (12A)
> Boil Size: 14.98 l	Style Guide: BJCP 2008
> ...


Definitely let us know how it goes! The cold steep was a great idea, I wanted to cold steep my chocolate and brown Malt but it came milled and mixed. I think the cold steep will do a good job of bringing out that chocolate!


----------



## seamad (26/3/15)

Brown malt I thought required mashing, as you added it for last 10 minutes then some conversion would have occurred, but hardly enough I'd think. Interested to see how it turns out.


----------



## Nizmoose (26/3/15)

seamad said:


> Brown malt I thought required mashing, as you added it for last 10 minutes then some conversion would have occurred, but hardly enough I'd think. Interested to see how it turns out.


I do believe that brown Malt is a specialty Malt and thus requires only a steep and not mash, if it required a mash then the cold steep would be fairly pointless but I do believe it falls with chocolate Malt under roasted Malt

EDIT: I'm happy to be proven wrong as I am far from an expert btw 

EDIT: Nope Nope I am wrong, Brown malt should be mashed! There you go learn something new everyday, so Reman I'd recommend throwing the choc for a cold steep but the brown malt in the mash as seamad has pointed out


----------



## Nizmoose (26/3/15)




----------



## gap (26/3/15)

Craftbrewer shows Brown Malt as " mashing required"


----------



## seamad (26/3/15)

Nizmoose said:


> malt_chart.gif


I'd split that roast section into 2, the first being "kilned malts ", amber,biscuit and brown included which I would mash, and then the roast section choc, black,carafa etc that I would steep ( either hot or cold depending on the profile I'm after )


----------



## Nizmoose (26/3/15)

seamad said:


> I'd split that roast section into 2, the first being "kilned malts ", amber,biscuit and brown included which I would mash, and then the roast section choc, black,carafa etc that I would steep ( either hot or cold depending on the profile I'm after )


Yep That'd definitely be a more helpful split if showing mashing vs steeping


----------



## Reman (26/3/15)

I've also been doing a bit of reading and it does get a little confusing.

1st thing is that brown malt is usually around 70L, the Voyager Brown I used is around 180L - this is important due to what comes next.

Munich, Vienna and typical Brown Malts are kilned versions of the base malts we all know and love and need to be mashed. Chocolate and Black Patent are roasted and can be mashed or steeped.

What's the difference between making kilned and roasted malts? Doesn't seem to be much, roasted is just a very highly-kilned base malt. Take a kilned malt and leave it in the oven, and voila, you get a roasted malt.

So my conclusion is that if you can steep 400L chocolate and need to mash 8L Munich as you move from 8L to 400L the more you get out of steeping. Which means that while I probably should have mashed a 200L Brown malt to get 100% out of it, I still got a fair bit out of it by steeping and a 10 minute mash.

All that being said, next time I'll mash it! 

References
http://www.barleyman.com.au/products/malts-grains/voyager-schooner-brown-malt.html
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/Malt_AK0996.html
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-1.html


----------



## Nizmoose (26/3/15)

Reman said:


> I've also been doing a bit of reading and it does get a little confusing.
> 
> 1st thing is that brown malt is usually around 70L, the Voyager Brown I used is around 180L - this is important due to what comes next.
> 
> ...


I do see where youre going with that bu I think the actual thing is that stteping extracts sugars, whilst mashing turns starch to sugar as we all know. Now crystal is kilned at a temp where the starch is converted to sugar (to my understanding) so that the sugars simply need be extracted in water, the same applies for choc malt. Brown malt it seems has not had its starches converted and therefore needs a mash OR the kilning process has destroyed the enzymes/starch/sugar and therefore means you are simply extracting the roast character from the grain. I dont actually know which is the case and dont want to mislead but the mash/steep situation depends on whether you're converting starches or extracting sugars. And im not sure which if any brown malt contains,


----------



## Reman (27/3/15)

Niz, you are correct. Mashing the grain will convert the starches to sugar, steeping will only release the simple sugars. A caveat is that the more kilning the malts get the more enzymes are destroyed, these enzymes are used to covert the starch to sugar during mashing. This is what's referred to as the diastatic power or Lintner of the grain. Higher kilned malts have a lower diastatic power which is why they can't be mashed alone, there aren't enough enzymes to convert the starches.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/11/17/brewing-beer-with-dark-grains-steeping-versus-mashing/
Suggests that the higher kilned malts, eg. chocolate, will have some starches coverted and the rest mostly destroyed so thats why you can mash or steep. They definitely have had all their enzymes destroyed so they can't be mashed by themselves.

So I spose the question is, how much starch was left in the brown malt I got? The answer is...? I think I might ask the malsters!


----------



## Nizmoose (27/3/15)

Reman said:


> Niz, you are correct. Mashing the grain will convert the starches to sugar, steeping will only release the simple sugars. A caveat is that the more kilning the malts get the more enzymes are destroyed, these enzymes are used to covert the starch to sugar during mashing. This is what's referred to as the diastatic power or Lintner of the grain. Higher kilned malts have a lower diastatic power which is why they can't be mashed alone, there aren't enough enzymes to convert the starches.
> 
> http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/11/17/brewing-beer-with-dark-grains-steeping-versus-mashing/
> Suggests that the higher kilned malts, eg. chocolate, will have some starches coverted and the rest mostly destroyed so thats why you can mash or steep. They definitely have had all their enzymes destroyed so they can't be mashed by themselves.
> ...


Ahh okay thanks for the info! So does that mean there's any sugar in the Malt? If no conversion has happened during the kilning process what do you extract during a steep of brown Malt? Sorry for all the questions but it is interesting!


----------



## Reman (29/3/15)

Reply from Voyager



> Voyager Craft Malt Hi Chris, sorry for the late reply, we've been flat or keeping up with orders of late.
> Thanks for message, we love hearing from brewers who have developed beers using our range of malts.
> All our malts are designed to be mashed. This is to cater for the processes used by most of the craft breweries we deal with. Whilst it certainly would impart more tannin and astringency, we've worked hard to develop our roast malts to keep this to a minimum. Lower temps and longer periods of time in our roaster(along with a few other special processes)have had a significant reduction in these characters at the end of our 90min congress mashes in the lab.
> It's interesting that you say our brown malt is darker than most, one comment we regularly hear is that our malts appear lighter than others(this is due to the process we use, where essentially we are trying to roast the grain but not the husk.) So with our grains the husk is much lighter than most other malts, but inside that husk you will find its true colour, this has been key for us in keeping astringency low, but still imparting classic characters of the malt.
> ...


So, short answer is mash it like a boss!


----------



## Reman (29/3/15)

Tasted a sample out of the fermenter, it's pretty damn good. After a week it's dropped from 1.058 to 1.022, meant to be an FG of 1.015 so I wonder how close I'll get....


----------



## Nizmoose (29/3/15)

Reman said:


> Tasted a sample out of the fermenter, it's pretty damn good. After a week it's dropped from 1.058 to 1.022, meant to be an FG of 1.015 so I wonder how close I'll get....


Good to hear it's going well! I'd say you should hit 1.015. Also that response from the maltster is insanely good customer service imo


----------



## Reman (9/4/15)

Famous last words, it spent a week at 1.020 or there abouts even after some agitation to try and get some more action. So it's been bottled, interesting to see how it turns out, non-carbed it's pretty nice.

My theory on stalling at 1.020 is the price of not mashing the brown malt and also mashing high at 68 degrees. (See http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/54793-mash-temperature-effect-on-final-gravity-formula/)

Here's hoping the 30 IBUs will be enough to balance out the extra sweetness


----------



## Nizmoose (9/4/15)

Reman said:


> Famous last words, it spent a week at 1.020 or there abouts even after some agitation to try and get some more action. So it's been bottled, interesting to see how it turns out, non-carbed it's pretty nice.
> 
> My theory on stalling at 1.020 is the price of not mashing the brown malt and also mashing high at 68 degrees. (See http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/54793-mash-temperature-effect-on-final-gravity-formula/)
> 
> Here's hoping the 30 IBUs will be enough to balance out the extra sweetness


1.020 is high but so was the mash so yeah see how it goes, let us know how it tastes carbed, my bulk priming sunk on this batch and so I have many uncarbonated porters, the first I tried by chance was a good one I'm hoping there's a few more carbed ones in there because it was a great beer!


----------



## Reman (21/4/15)

This is how it turned out, I'm very pleased 





Straight out of the fridge it's a little bland with a touch of roast bitterness, but let it warm up a bit and all the flavours come out to play - coffee, chocolate, a little bit of floral and earthiness from the hops and a touch of fruit from the yeast.

It's definitely a drink to savour and not drink too quickly, let it wash over your tongue and slip down your throat. There's a pleasant oiliness that coats your tongue after swallowing, which leaves residual flavours.

Improvements? I'm not sure, I think it would take more educated taste buds than mine!

Niz, I know our recipes differ slightly but I think they are close enough to each other And I think they will work as a great base for porters and variants.


----------



## Nizmoose (22/4/15)

Reman said:


> This is how it turned out, I'm very pleased
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome work it looks good! Glad to hear that it turned out a nice beer! When it comes to improvements I'm in the same boat, its a bit out of my league. All I can say is that since brewing this I have gone out of my way looking for porters to try to compare to my own and haven't really liked any of them as much as my own which is a nice feeling. How was the roast in yours Reman? Happy with the amount of roast? The one thing many commercial examples have is too much roast for me but that's a me thing, I'm slowly coming round to it. When this gets brewed next I'll add some coffee and cacao nibs and see where it goes. Good to hear yours has turned out well and I agree both very similar recipes and both seem to be great base porters!


----------

