# help, my beer isn't very good.



## Zardez (21/10/13)

hey guys, I've done three batches of beer, one batch pear cider and just bottled a ginger beer. the first two beers were pretty average, the third is ok, but still not something I'm proud of, I followed the instructions (coopers homebrew kit) I'm not a beer snob, I'll drink vb so it's not me being picky, the third beer was bottled into glass, and it also had 500gms honey added at the start along with 1kg brew enhancer (coopers again)
without going all out what are some ways I can improve the taste of my brew? I'm not looking to make a super crafty super brew, I just want something that tastes a little more like a half decent beer
what can I dooooo?


----------



## Pennywise (21/10/13)

What is it you dont like about your brews?


----------



## vittorio (21/10/13)

easy practice makes perfect, it takes awhile to get a good beer and once you get good at crafting you will be pulling of some amazing beers man


----------



## manticle (21/10/13)

Zardez said:


> hey guys, I've done three batches of beer, one batch pear cider and just bottled a ginger beer. the first two beers were pretty average, the third is ok, but still not something I'm proud of, I followed the instructions (coopers homebrew kit) I'm not a beer snob, I'll drink vb so it's not me being picky, the third beer was bottled into glass, and it also had 500gms honey added at the start along with 1kg brew enhancer (coopers again)
> without going all out what are some ways I can improve the taste of my brew? I'm not looking to make a super crafty super brew, I just want something that tastes a little more like a half decent beer
> what can I dooooo?


What was the temperature of the brew while it was fermenting?


----------



## jacknohe (21/10/13)

Can you describe it a little better and give us some insight into your process? Recipes?

The most common first brewing problems are usually related to inadequate sanitation of equipment and/or lack of temperature control during your ferment. These will usually result in a beer that most would be unhappy with. In terms of making a simple brew, I've tried a few of my mates beers brewed from kits with basic ingredients and they've tasted fine for what they were after. But the were very zealous in cleaning and sanitising. Also, they brewed at a time of year where the temps didn't fluctuate much (they were lucky in my opinion).

So let us know some more and we will see how we can help.


----------



## Zardez (21/10/13)

Temperatures could be one of my problems, sometimes fluctuates to as low as 16 overnight, highest I've seen is 22 I'm very particular about sanitation as well, the brews aren't infected so I don't tthink sanitation is the problem, they are not really recipes, I just follow the DVD instructions in the coopers brew kit, mix and leave for a week or so, test for fg bottle, leave for a month

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk


----------



## manticle (21/10/13)

Try and ferment around 18 with cooler being better than hotter.
If you are using a kilo of sugar or brew enhancer, try using no more than 500 grams and use another 750g of dried malt extract.
Steep some fresh saaz or hallertauer hop pellets in some hot water and add that to your mix at the beginning. Maybe 10-15g?

Also once you hit FG, try leaving the brew for another week before bottling.


----------



## Forever Wort (21/10/13)

16-22 degree fermentation temps shouldn't result in awful beer, at least not in my experience. I would focus on the other stuff mentioned by Manticle first.


----------



## Newts (21/10/13)

One other thing that might be affecting your beer quality is the quality of your brewing water. I used tap water with no temperature control for my first 2 brews and they tasted bloody awful.

I then tried temperature control (18C has been the magic number for me with ales) and had another bad batch so I put it down to the water itself.

From that point on I started boiling all my brew water and I haven't had a bad batch since. Turns out our water is riddled with chlorine and other nasties as I'm in a remote location. Don't know your circumstances but thought I'd share my personal experience.

Newts


----------



## maxim0200 (21/10/13)

Im a newbie myself (so feel free to disregard) but ditch the dextrose if you dont need/want the extra alco because thats all its doing.
Try all malt (eitger lme or dme) and reduce your final volume to 20ishL For more body.

What yeast are you using? 
From what ive heard thats one of the main factors for good beer. (along with sanisation and temp control, the 'beer triangle' if you like)


----------



## JoeyJoeJoe (21/10/13)

Easy kit improvements in order of importance
1. Sanitation get some starsan a spray bottle and be anal. A test to see how clean you are being is to take a glass of wort just before you pitch put some glad wrap over it. Then check to see how long it takes for it to go gross 3 days+ is good less than that u need work.
2. Temp control stc1000 20 bucks + second hand chest freezer 60 bucks
3. Good yeast at a good pitch rate I like safale s05 5 bucks for 11.5 grams
4. Substitute dextrose for sugar and to step up again get some light dme
5. Leave it in the fermenter for at least 2 weeks if you have temp control drop it to 1c after 2 weeks for two more weeks.
6. I would suggest trying the Morgans blue mountain lager best kit I have done 16 bucks much better hoppy ness than other kits.
That's all I have got hope it helps.
JJJ


----------



## Dan Dan (21/10/13)

My only advice is, don't be put off! Give it time. There's a lot to learn as a new brewer, and it's best to know what you're doing at each step. What tins did you use? There are so many available you're bound to find one you like sooner or later. When you're ready, do a bit of reading up on steeping grains, or even extract brews. There's a lot of info out there, and before you know it you'll be cranking out quality beers that your mates will be jealous of!


----------



## lael (21/10/13)

JoeyJoeJoe said:


> Easy kit improvements in order of importance
> 1. Sanitation get some starsan a spray bottle and be anal. A test to see how clean you are being is to take a glass of wort just before you pitch put some glad wrap over it. Then check to see how long it takes for it to go gross 3 days+ is good less than that u need work.
> 2. Temp control stc1000 20 bucks + second hand chest freezer 60 bucks
> 3. Good yeast at a good pitch rate I like safale s05 5 bucks for 11.5 grams
> ...


like suggestion #1 - might try that next brew.


----------



## Alex.Tas (22/10/13)

JoeyJoeJoe said:


> Easy kit improvements in order of importance
> 1. Sanitation get some starsan a spray bottle and be anal. A test to see how clean you are being is to take a glass of wort just before you pitch put some glad wrap over it. Then check to see how long it takes for it to go gross 3 days+ is good less than that u need work.


Never done this but great suggestion. Will try this for sure next brew. How did you come up with three days JJJ?


Zardez, making your beer better also depends on what sort of beer you like. I found that when I was starting out good beers to go with are hoppy beers such as american pale ales. The reason being is that the extra hops could cover up mistakes i had made/continue to make. 
Shoot down to your local bottle-o and get yourself a selection of beers and decide what sort you like best (if you aren't sure already). Get a few pale ales or india pale ales. These are hop focused beers. To make one of these you can buy form your local home brew store hops in pellet, plug or flower form. then you can boil them up on your stove with your beer, and you can get extra bitterness and great flavour from them. If you want a suggestion for a recipe let me know, happy to help.

All of the suggestions everybody has made here are very valid. any combination will make your beer better. but the best advice is what Dan Dan says, dont be put off! everyone was starting out once.


----------



## Byran (22/10/13)

JoeyJoeJoe said:


> Easy kit improvements in order of importance
> 1. Sanitation get some starsan a spray bottle and be anal. A test to see how clean you are being is to take a glass of wort just before you pitch put some glad wrap over it. Then check to see how long it takes for it to go gross 3 days+ is good less than that u need work.
> 2. Temp control stc1000 20 bucks + second hand chest freezer 60 bucks
> 3. Good yeast at a good pitch rate I like safale s05 5 bucks for 11.5 grams
> ...


All this stuff


----------



## NewtownClown (22/10/13)

I don't get it...
You haven't brewed three "beers". You brewed two Ciders and a Ginger Beer. No wonder they don't measure up to your beloved VB


----------



## Bribie G (22/10/13)

I think he meant three batches of beer plus the other brews. However I honestly wouldn't be mucking about with adding honey or suchlike until you have the basic beer sorted. Every honey beer I've ever tried reminds me of the old blue toilet blocks they used to have in the urninals in country pubs.

I'd go right back to basics, get a fairly inoffensive Coopers Kit such as their Lager. Then chuck the kit yeast (it's Mauribrew which isn't too bad for what it is, but you can do a bit better) and get a packet of US-05 yeast. Use Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 (not 1) and try to keep the fermentation below 20. 

See how you go with that and by all means chuck in some aroma hops, Home brew shops sell "teabags" that are good to try although a bit expensive for regular use.


----------



## Impy (22/10/13)

JoeyJoeJoe said:


> 4. Substitute dextrose for sugar and to step up again get some light dme


Really? I thought Dex was an improvement over table sugar?


----------



## NewtownClown (22/10/13)

NewtownClown said:


> I don't get it...
> You haven't brewed three "beers". You brewed two Ciders and a Ginger Beer. No wonder they don't measure up to your beloved VB


 My bad. Must remember to consume a 3rd cup of coffee before I can expect comprehension to kick in.
3 Beers plus the Cider and GB...

My kit brews improved substantially when I discovered the recipes on the coopers website... 
I still throw one together every now and then for a quick-to-brew keg filler...


----------



## Impy (22/10/13)

NewtownClown said:


> My bad. Must remember to consume a 3rd cup of coffee before I can expect comprehension to kick in.
> 3 Beers plus the Cider and GB...
> 
> My kit brews improved substantially when I discovered the recipes on the coopers website...
> I still throw one together every now and then for a quick-to-brew keg filler...


From what i've heard the kit Ginger Beer isn't very nice anyway (it has lots of artificial sweetener in it) so don't be put off by that one.


----------



## technobabble66 (22/10/13)

I'm still kinda newbie, so take this in context:

I'd say your temp control could definitely improve, but at this stage it's roughly within ok range (though the kit yeast might b less tolerant than the us05 & bry-97 I've used). Similarly, sanitation is v important, but if you haven't had any infections then it doesn't sound like an area needing more focus. 

Similar to manticle et al's suggestions:
I'd sub out all sugar/dex/honey. Just stick to ldme (light dry malt extract). BE2 is ok also as a 2nd choice (has ldme + dex in it). 
Get better yeast - use us05 or bry-97. Cleaner & probably more forgiving. 
Lastly, consider doing the hop tea manticle suggested. 10-15g of a light hop like saaz will b noticeable but subtle (think euro ale). Or the same of citra/galaxy (us or nz hops mainly) will be more pronounced citrus hop presence (think US pale ale style)

Temp control is definitely better at a steady 18*C, but I've had mine fluctuate up to 23*C & still be ok, just not great. Also, temp control seems most important during the first 2-4 days of fermentation. Note that I'm referring to ales with this. Lagers need much better (& lower) temp control. 

Oh, one final thing. If you can b bothered, get 100g of crystal grains (cracked), steep in 1L of ~70*C water for 30min, strain, boil the liquid for 5mins & add it to your fermenter. Adds some great full, grain flavour to your beer!

Good luck & don't give up!!


----------



## damoninja (22/10/13)

JoeyJoeJoe said:


> 4. Substitute dextrose for sugar and to step up again get some light dme





Impy said:


> Really? I thought Dex was an improvement over table sugar?



My dad used table sugar a few times and so have I just to see the difference. 

Absolutely revolting.


----------



## manticle (22/10/13)

> Really? I thought Dex was an improvement over table sugar?


Pretty sure he means sub dex in, sub sugar out. Substitute dex in place of sugar in other words.


----------



## pcmfisher (22/10/13)

technobabble66 said:


> Get better yeast - use us05 or bry-97. Cleaner & probably more forgiving.


I would suggest the kit yeasts are more forgiving than US05 etc.

In fact, I would go as far to say you might as well stick with the kit yeasts unless you have some form of temp control.


----------



## bum (22/10/13)

Impy said:


> From what i've heard the kit Ginger Beer isn't very nice anyway (it has lots of artificial sweetener in it) so don't be put off by that one.


It is better than any "scratch" GB I have made but it does need a fair bit of work to shine.

Even the straight tin is better than _every_ commercial alcoholic GB I've tried - and I try pretty much every one I see.


----------



## JoeyJoeJoe (22/10/13)

Impy said:


> Really? I thought Dex was an improvement over table sugar?


You are right I read that again and it is backwards :blush:


----------



## gap (22/10/13)

Impy said:


> Really? I thought Dex was an improvement over table sugar?


Please read what he wrote . He is suggesting using Dex not Sugar .


----------



## JoeyJoeJoe (22/10/13)

bum said:


> It is better than any "scratch" GB I have made but it does need a fair bit of work to shine.
> 
> Even the straight tin is better than _every_ commercial alcoholic GB I've tried - and I try pretty much every one I see.


What is your favorite tin/ best receipe bum ? A GB is on my list to try.


----------



## bum (22/10/13)

I don't really stick with one recipe (not sure I've ever brewed the exact same recipe twice).

The closest things to constants that I have are:

I mostly make my fermentables up out of the tin (only tried Coopers but have a Morgans lined up to try next), and a 1:3 mix of dark brown sugar and raw sugar - if the intended OG is pretty high I might swap the ratio to something like 1:4. Sometimes I add a bottle of Buderim's Ginger Refresher once fermentation is well under way.
I pretty much always boil up some fresh, washed ginger I've run through a food processor then add the liquid only.
Spices in the mortar and pestle: cinnamon quills, a couple cloves, some cardamom. These go in with the fresh ginger towards the end of the boil.
That's basically my most common base. I play around with it from there.


----------



## bry2 (22/10/13)

Without temp control I would stick with the kit yeast. However I am not a fan of coopers kit yeast. To me it adds a dirty home brew flavour. Try a different kit such as morgans or black rock. Their yeast produces a much cleaner flavour (it is different to coopers). As recommended before try morgans blue mountain lager. It has hop oils mixed in the can whereas most other kits will have no hop aromas or flavour.


----------



## Zardez (22/10/13)

> Oh, one final thing. If you can b bothered, get 100g of crystal grains (cracked), steep in 1L of ~70*C water for 30min, strain, boil the liquid for 5mins & add it to your fermenter. Adds some great full, grain flavour to your beer!
> 
> Good luck & don't give up!!


could you elaborate a little more for me, this sounds like something I could try, thanks for all the great suggestions guys I appreciate it,now I wanna know where did you all get your temp controller from, what have you done at home to keep your temps constant


----------



## MrTwalky (22/10/13)

My brewing mantra is cleanliness, temperature and fresh ingredients. Nail these and you're guaranteed a good beer.

In saying that, I believe kit beers need to be fresh to taste good. If you're buying kits, stay away from the woolworths shelf stock, I think it sits there for a looooong time. Instead go to your LHBS as they have higher turnover and better range.

That's my 2c. Stick with it mate.


----------



## JoeyJoeJoe (22/10/13)

I got mine for 20 bucks of ebay. Search for stc1000. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220V-All-purpose-Digital-Temperature-Controller-with-Sensor-STC-1000-Useful-N4U8-/390679804651?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item5af654baeb I dont know if linking to ebay is ok.... I dont have any connection with the chinsese dudes that sell these though if that makes a difference.

If you then search for stc1000 on this site or even youtube you will find some good how tos on setting them up. The chest feezer I just got on gumtree.


----------



## mr_wibble (22/10/13)

Impy said:


> From what i've heard the kit Ginger Beer isn't very nice anyway (it has lots of artificial sweetener in it) so don't be put off by that one.


Fn(A) on that. I carbonated a keg of that up (without fermenting) for the kids on the suggestion of the LHBS.
Massive artificial sweetener aftertaste, the kids wont drink it.

It beggers belief that a company that produces otherwise good products output such a thing.


----------



## MartinOC (22/10/13)

Zardez, this isn't an exact science. It's ART!

If I was to throw my 2c's worth into the equation, I'd suggest you go & read as much as you possibly can about the whole thing & then start from a simple base, changing one thing at a time until you understand what happens when you change things.

DON'T just rely on things you read here - confirm them for yourself!!

Be prepared to screw-up (& you will - we ALL do/did as we learned). As long as you learn from the experience, it'll make you a better brewer overall. Soon-enough, you'll get a regime of things to do that works for you.

Don't get disheartened with failures (I've chucked hundreds of litres of AG down the driveway over the years), it's just part of the journey.

Welcome to the vortex!!


----------



## JoeyJoeJoe (22/10/13)

Your driveway must be sticky


----------



## MartinOC (22/10/13)

JoeyJoeJoe said:


> Your driveway must be sticky


Don't mention the War!

I come from a time when I was getting a 50Kg bag of base malt for $30, so I had the luxury........  Ner-ner!!


----------



## technobabble66 (22/10/13)

Zardez said:


> could you elaborate a little more for me, this sounds like something I could try, ...


It's pretty simple. Basically exactly as i described above, that's all there is to it. Slight variations on how to steep it, but that version works for me. I thought it was a bit daunting the first time i did it - playing with all this grain stuff. But it's a piece of cake once you try it 
Another description of it, plus other things you can do, plus generally being a really awesome summary on the whole brewing thing, is How To Brew, by John Palmer. Google & download it. It's free!! Some of the more technical stuff is outdated, but is about the best starting point there is for newbies looking to learn. HIGHLY recommended. It's also well structured so you can even just read the bits you need now & go back to the rest later.

The process of just steeping Crystal grain & adding it to the brew works because the grain is kinda pre-mashed & roasted. Hence it gives you sugars & flavours when steeped, as opposed to flour/starch like regular malted & unmalted grains if you haven't mashed them yourself.
Crystal's got a sweetish honey (light crystal) to caramel (medium crystal) to toffee (dark crystal) flavour. And adding any grain element will add better depth to your brew. The crystal can easily be too much, so for most beer styles somewhere between 100-300g in a 23L batch is plenty.

Beware - once you've steeped crystal it's not long before you start looking at All Grain brewing & as MartinOC says, down the vortex you go! 





Zardez said:


> ...now I wanna know where did you all get your temp controller from, what have you done at home to keep your temps constant


Lots of options, as above, depending on how much you want to spend.

I have no temp control per se.
In Winter if it gets too cold I wrap the fermenter in a towel or 2. If it's getting really cold, maybe put a warm water bottle or a jug with warm water next to it.
In summer, when it gets too hot, i plonk the fermenter in the bath which is half filled with cold tap water. If that's not enough, i wrap a towel around it leaving the bottom edge in the water - water seeps up the towel & evaporates, cooling the fermenter further. If that's still not enough, i then get a fan & blow it onto the towel-wrapped fermenter, increasing the rate of evaporation & cooling it even more.

Eg: My latest batch pitched Sunday night was put into the bath Monday morning (after bubbling had started) as the temp was still ~22°C (i had to pitch into 25°C wort). Dropped it below 20°C within a few hours. Sitting at 17°C for most of last night & today, & was pulled out to sit on a bench late this afternoon. Happily bubbling at 18°C for the last few hours. So far so good!


----------



## black_labb (22/10/13)

just butting in. Most kit ale yeasts are the mauri 514 which is a nice ale yeast that suits english ales but is pretty versatile especially if fermented at lower temps to keep it clean flavoured. The reason "kit yeasts" are bad is because there is not enough yeast and often the yeast that came with the kit hasn't been properly stored. some kits have only 7g of yeast in them which is really too few. you want at least 10g.

You could try buying 2 brews at once and pitching both kit yeasts yeasts in one brew, and the other brew you can buy another yeast to ferment with.


----------



## mattdean4130 (22/10/13)

I read on here somewhere the worst thing you can do is follow the instructions on the can!

What's been said above, but also maybe look at adding some additional hops into your brews? Quick and easy way to improve a kit tenfold!


----------



## damoninja (23/10/13)

mattdean4130 said:


> I read on here somewhere the worst thing you can do is follow the instructions on the can!
> 
> What's been said above, but also maybe look at adding some additional hops into your brews? Quick and easy way to improve a kit tenfold!


Seeing as there are cans of lager out there that say brew between 21 and 27... O_O


----------



## Rocker1986 (23/10/13)

You'll probably find most of those "lager" cans come with ale yeast. I know the Coopers original series one does. Either way, those temps are too high but I imagine the reason they are on there is because most newbies haven't got a clue about temp control or anything else and it's a reasonably foolproof method to make something half drinkable. I know I didn't when I started and looking back on that first batch, it was shithouse, but at the time I thought it was alright. :lol:


----------



## damoninja (23/10/13)

Rocker1986 said:


> You'll probably find most of those "lager" cans come with ale yeast. I know the Coopers original series one does. Either way, those temps are too high but I imagine the reason they are on there is because most newbies haven't got a clue about temp control or anything else and it's a reasonably foolproof method to make something half drinkable. I know I didn't when I started and looking back on that first batch, it was shithouse, but at the time I thought it was alright. :lol:


I've actually heard that the kit yeasts are made up of multiple strains to cover a wider temperature range.

My first 4 brews weren't temp controlled but didn't exceed 20 degrees, now that it's warmer I've got my fridge up and running.


----------



## Rocker1986 (23/10/13)

Some kit yeasts are a combination ale/lager blend, however all the original series Coopers ones are just a straight ale yeast. Some of the international and Thomas Cooper series ones have the blend, some have straight ale and some have straight lager yeast. No idea about the other brands, never used them.


----------



## Pat Casey (23/10/13)

Zardez what is it you don't like about the beer? And what beer kits have you used? And how long was it in the bottle for?

With these sorts of questions the first thing to work out is whether there are objective faults with the beer, or whether it is a matter of taste. I once had a customer who said all of his beers were turning out terrible, whatever I suggested made no improvement. So I asked him to bring a few in. They were fine. It's just the kits he had chosen were all very bitter, and he did not like bitter beer. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it shows how important it is to have some insight into your tastes.

If you like VB then the best place to start is with a kit which emulates VB such as the Morgans Aus Bitter, or the Coopers Aus Bitter.

It sounds like you are doing the right things with cleaning and sanitation. However, the manufacturers' instructions are terrible. They are failsafe (read idiot) instructions designed to prevent disasters rather than produce a good beer. Yes the can kits have their limitations but you should be able to brew a reasonable beer with them. If you can't then something fundamentally wrong is happening in which case changing yeast or adding various extras will not fix the problem.

Generally a mix of 500g of dried malt extract and 500g of dextrose or sugar is a good accompaniment to most 1.7 kg kits. 100% malt extract is often too sweet. However, the Coopers Aus Bitter has been made to be used with 1.5 kg of their liquid malt extract.

Typically the manufacturers recommend using way to much hot/boiling water. The yeast will generate heat as they ferment so although the ambient temperature maybe good the actual fermentation temperature may be too high which will produce unwanted fermenation flavours. Go easy on the hot water and have 5 or 6 litres of chilled water to mix up with so that you get a start temperature of about 20 degrees. An adhesive thermometer for the fermenter is very useful.

Rehydrating the yeast gives good results, add the yeast to about 150 ml of 25 deg water for about 15 minutes before pitching. When you pitch the rehydrated yeast work some air into the wort with your mixing spoon. Using two 5 or 6 gram packets of yeast is also good.

Leave the beer to ferment, with the hydrometer check fermentation is complete and then leave the beer a couple of more days to clear. Don't leave it too long, especially in warmer weather, as the yeast will start to die and give unwanted flavours to the beer.

If your are using carbonation drops then a couple of days after you have bottled the beer come back and gently invert each bottle a few times. It takes the drops some time to dissolve, they will then sit in the bottom of the bottle as a heavy syrup which the yeast will be slow to ferment. If you don't mix the syrup through the beer it can be flattish and syrupy. Of course the manufacturers don't tell you this.

Generally the beer kits are supplied with an ale yeast, often Mauribrew 514. With beer kits lager just means pale and lightly hopped, pilsner pale and well hopped. The Cooper Euro Lager and Pilsner are both supplied with lager yeasts - unless you can ferment these fairly cool, even cold, then use an ale yeast with them. The yeast supplied with the four Coopers "Selection" range is a blend of ale and lager yeast - or so Coopers told me.

Hope something here helps.
Pat


----------



## bry2 (23/10/13)

This is slightly off topic, but pat do you know for sure which kits use mauri 514? I know coopers don't and can taste the difference.

Theres lots of opinions as to what yeasts are used in kits like morgans and black rock but I haven't seen any definitive proof or comparisons with the Actual mauri yeast. It would new handy to know for sure when designing beers.


----------



## Pat Casey (25/10/13)

For the Morgans Export/Premium range the yeast packets were labelled as Ale or Lager (Blue Mtns Lager, Stockman's Draught, Golden Saaz Pils). The yeasts were Mauribrew 514 and 497 respectively. For their Australian range it was the 514 in plain packaging. All the yeasts now for their kits are plain silver packaging and I assume it is Mauribrew 514 because I have not had any comments from customers about changes in the beer.

I have asked the Morgan's rep for confirmation.

I am not sure about the Black Rock and Mangrove Jack kits. They are supplied with a packet of "Premium Brewing Yeast". Some years ago Black Rock changed their yeast because of complaints that it was not suitable for Australian (hot) conditions. I have asked the distributor for more information about the yeast.

I reccomend the new Mangrove Jack Craft yeasts. 10 gram sachets with attenuation and flocculation information plus a brief description of the yeast's character.

Pat


----------



## Gusk (5/11/13)

I like Mini Mash's advice. One of the best thing I did was get to know my local brew shop. They know a lot of stuff but especially they know the environment where you live and the weather conditions. Talk to them about kits and additions, they know a lot and they want your business so get in there and get in their radar.


----------



## manticle (5/11/13)

Depends on the particular brewshop. Some great, some shit.


----------

