# NPT vs BSP thread type in a new set-up



## mofox1 (11/5/14)

Hi all,

As I'm in the wonderful position of having (almost) none of my SS plumbing yet, I get to decide whether I go for NPT or BSP threads.

Hopefully this won't turn into another thread about whether you can successfully mate NPT and BSP thread types together. I know it *can* work and have done so previously, but you can (and usually do) end up with leaks eventually, and if you have to disassemble/reassemble a few times the SS is going to burr up because of the pitch mismatch.

Basically - I'm a cheapskate (that's why we're here right?) and there are a couple of ebay retailers out there with very competitive prices. Also I can more blindly follow theelectricbrewery step by step instructions. 

My preference would normally be toward the BSP - it's the standard here and it makes picking up parts locally a bit easier. However, the (only) ebay retailer I've found for the BSP fittings doesn't have a large sell history, and that tends to make me nervous. And while the NPT reseller doesn't have a massive sell history (as in the +100k for the usual electronics guys) it's large enough that confidence value can be trusted a bit better.

Would I be doing myself a disservice by buying NPT? Am I likely to run into any issues other than poor mating with BSP or local supply?

Cheers,
Mick


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## mofox1 (11/5/14)

Oh yeah - the NPT retailer is slightly cheaper too.

Mick


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## neo__04 (11/5/14)

I'm no expert, but i've built and am building a new brew rig myself at the moment.

I havent ordered any ebay stainless in the past, but from memory someone on here said they had slight rust issues. So not 100% true stainless.

As for the BSP / NPT issue, ive always used bsp, readily available, everyone on here knows where to source it from, which may help you.

I've seen a few people ordering from here.
http://www.anzor.com.au/bsp-npt-fittings/bsp-unions/no-group-selected/12-bsp-316-union-nb15/product

As for myself, i've ordered from various brewing places and ended up finding my local stainless supplier had all the fittings i needed, 3 piece ball valves included, great prices, even better for cash. Might be worth an ask locally first.

Hope that helps


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## Tex083 (11/5/14)

I use a mix and it's fine. The reason - US camlocks are 1/2 the price.
Be careful of "cheap" ball valves u have 1 and it's very hard to open and close when compared to my local ones that cost a little more. If your building a brew rig and you are going to use it for a long time it's worth the investment in some good fittings. Some of the cheap ones don't thread together well at all. I have a few pieces a bucket that are useless as you can only get 2.5 turns out of it before the thread binds up.


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## TheWiggman (11/5/14)

I'd advise to shop locally and use BSP exclusively. Any Aussie hardware store will stock plumbing gear with BSP. You don't want to have to skip to 5 different plumbing stores to find a 1/2" NPT.

The T in NPT = Taper. If you use a BSP on an NPT female you'll get a few threads on before it locks. You'll probably strip a thread before you realise.

Just go with the Aussie stuff because one day you'll want to upgrade or replace something and rue the day you saved $4 on that damn welded NPT socket.


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## superstock (11/5/14)

All you need to know is here, including adaptors.
/Cmd+vhttp://pipeandhose.com/node/2


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## MHB (11/5/14)

There is a vast difference between price and value, if you cant tell the difference I doubt anyone can help you much.
As for the "Basically - I'm a cheapskate (that's why we're here right?)" comment, speak for your self, price plays little or no role in what and why I brew. I want to drink the best beer I can. Whether I make or buy the beer is irrelevant to me if it isn't good I don't drink it.

Think of quality parts as a long term investment, if you buy on price alone - well the old "you get what you pay for" is very real and I doubt you will save enough on your parts to pay for one brew, if you loose one to leaks or infections you will be even further behind.
Buy good quality parts that are supported by someone you can trust, Sure look for the best deal you can but decide what you need to do the job and find parts that will keep doing the job and enjoy your brewing and drink to enjoy good beer.
Mark


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## lael (11/5/14)

I faced the same issue when building my brauclone. Would go back and change to all BSP if I was starting again. So much simpler. As stated above - you will get one or two turns of a male bsp into a female NPT fitting before it locks up. Not worth the hassle, and the prices are not that different. Anzor was where I ordered a lot of stuff. Super helpful - fill out all the bits and pieces you want and send it through for a quote - they'll email back the next business day.

There was one group here in Sydney (roughly where are you? - ppl can give more specific advice) that said they would do cash sales min. $100 (at the time I thought I wouldn't go over that.... haha... ) but I don't remember who - they were southwest from memory.


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## Fat Bastard (11/5/14)

If I had to pick one, I'd go for BSP, being the local standard and all. However, I am an inveterate cheapskate and scrap bin scrounger, so there is a mix of BSP and NPT on mine. 

I've found that some NPT and BSP threads won't go in more than 2 or 3 threads before locking, but I've found the same thing occasionally with BSP-BSP before. It depends on which end of the tolerance they've made the male thread, and how deep they've gone with the tapered tap.

Buy a1/2" BSPP (parallel) tap and never worry about it again. Use a proper sealant like Loctite 577 or thread tape and you won't get leaks either.


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## lael (11/5/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> If I had to pick one, I'd go for BSP, being the local standard and all. However, I am an inveterate cheapskate and scrap bin scrounger, so there is a mix of BSP and NPT on mine.
> 
> I've found that some NPT and BSP threads won't go in more than 2 or 3 threads before locking, but I've found the same thing occasionally with BSP-BSP before. It depends on which end of the tolerance they've made the male thread, and how deep they've gone with the tapered tap.
> 
> Buy a1/2" BSPP (parallel) tap and never worry about it again. Use a proper sealant like Loctite 577 or thread tape and you won't get leaks either.


Any suggestions on where to get the tap for a good price?


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## wide eyed and legless (11/5/14)

Lael, probably the best place to look would be eBay, its not like its going to be used day in day out.


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## TheWiggman (11/5/14)

Most of the site sponsors have ball valves for about the same price. 

I got a bulkhead and ball valve from ibrew and at $25 you can't beat it. The valve is actually a 2 piece with lock and is a better machined than the maxiflos.


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## mb-squared (11/5/14)

I designed my system down to the last bolt and then ordered all my hardware from Bobby at Brewhardware -- so my brewrig started out as all NPT. I checked and re-checked different places and found out that he was the cheapest way to go for me, including the $80 in shipping. Since then, I've added some parts here and there and all of those are BSP -- not going to pay shipping costs for a single piece or two. So now I have a mix, but so far I haven't had to connect BSP directly to NPT. I personally think that you'll get your best value if you shop from an established brewers shop (like Brewhardware or Brewershardware or stainlessbrewing). You are really risking things if you go the aliexpress or ebay route (IMO). 

Contrary to what someone said above, the cost of your stainless won't affect the quality of your brew one way or the other. Get the cheapest you can, but make sure it is quality -- just because it is stainless doesn't mean that it will last. I've seen cheap Chinese camlocks (ebay purchase) fail on the first go.


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## wide eyed and legless (11/5/14)

I believe Lael is talking about a BSP cutting tap.


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## booargy (11/5/14)

I would go with tri-clamp over BSM. h34r:


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## lael (11/5/14)

yep  sure was


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## Fat Bastard (11/5/14)

Lael, I honestly can't remember where I got mine from. I don't think it was particularly cheap seeing as it's quite a big tap, but it's a worthwhile investment being able to get the threads in your brewery to go all the way home. If you use weldless fittings, the threaded pipe you buy is always a parallel thread and the ball valves are always tapered, so in fitting one weldless ball valve and fitting to your vessel you've payed for it in peace of mind.


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## booargy (11/5/14)

lael said:


> Any suggestions on where to get the tap for a good price?


I got mine from Gasweld. you're looking at around $80


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## Camo6 (11/5/14)

Here's a cheapie from ebay with free postage and located in Australia. Only carbon steel though so care will need to be taken.


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## Fat Bastard (11/5/14)

You couldn't pay me to use a carbon steel tap. It might only be 22 bucks but it'll cost you a minimum of 100 to get the bastard spark eroded out if it picks up and jams or you could just junk the bit you're tapping into and buy a new one.

Buy a HSS one and use it properly and you won't have a problem. It'll last you a lifetime too, and you can probably pay for it in beers from your mates tapping out their threads.

I write this advice as someone who made a lot of money out of removing broken taps from expensive parts in a former life.


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## Camo6 (11/5/14)

Even better, there's a HSS one for $11 from China. Eleven bucks? What could go wrong?!


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## booargy (11/5/14)

wa wen wong


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## KevinR (11/5/14)

I have been told bsp and npt from 1\2 inch down are the same threads per inch it's the angle of the threads that is different.I have often used 1/2inch bsp with npt most time works fine.Weather they screw in a couple of threads or screw in all the way and still not be tight seems to be a matter of tolerence between the valve/appliance manufacturer and the fitting manufacturer? 
The low pressure we use should not be a problem.
Kev


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## elcarter (11/5/14)

Kev's bang on BSP is 55 deg, NPT is 60 deg.

Both will screw in but your damaging one or both threads when you do. 
You will usually be fine on a home-brew "super low pressure" applications just don't over tighten and strip a thread and use a little bit of thread tape.
Some unique brew items are form over the pond and will only come in NTP so it's likely you'll run into this one way or the other.

Attempt this shenanigans on a hydraulic application though.....

Spend some cash on some decent ball valve's, quality moving parts and seals cost $. Once you re-buy the right one your worse off.


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## TheWiggman (11/5/14)

Close elcarter. BSP come in tapered and parallel but yes the tapers differ between types. I just went and checked my gear and found the bends and male fittings (like hose barb) to be tapered, and a spare ball valve had parallel. I also found it's about 3° outside in Orange and my bottled beers are lagering the natural way. Shit I'm cold now. 
"Life is like a BSP fitting..."
This is one example of why I love SI units.


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## mofox1 (11/5/14)

MHB said:


> As for the "Basically - I'm a cheapskate (that's why we're here right?)" comment, speak for your self, price plays little or no role in what and why I brew. I want to drink the best beer I can. Whether I make or buy the beer is irrelevant to me if it isn't good I don't drink it.


Fair call - mine was a fairly unjustified statement. If I was doing it because it was cheap, it would only be K&K batches. I'm doing AG brews for the challenge of producing the beer I want, and hopefully upping the ante from where I started. Comment retracted. :blush:



Fat Bastard said:


> Buy a1/2" BSPP (parallel) tap and never worry about it again. Use a proper sealant like Loctite 577 or thread tape and you won't get leaks either.


Great idea - hopefully won't need to do this, but good to know.



elcarter said:


> Spend some cash on some decent ball valve's, quality moving parts and seals cost $. Once you re-buy the right one your worse off.


Does Keg King fall into this category? Heaps of folk must have fittings from there... As far as a search tells me, the keg king curse is limited to elements and pumps.

Plenty stoked so many people have chimed in here. Appreciate all the help and feedback!!

Cheers,
Mick


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## Tex083 (12/5/14)

I have had 2 ball valves from KK one I sent back because the bulk head fitting they supplied with it was poor quality. The hose barb they supplied wouldn't thread on.
It was replaced and they covered the postage back to them. The second valve they sent is ok but not as smooth as others I have used.
My LHBS stocks fittings from http://www.homebru.com.au and they are great quality, not the cheapest but I keep buying them because they work well.


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## bazfletch3 (12/5/14)

mofox1 said:


> Fair call - mine was a fairly unjustified statement. If I was doing it because it was cheap, it would only be K&K batches. I'm doing AG brews for the challenge of producing the beer I want, and hopefully upping the ante from where I started. Comment retracted. :blush:


Hey Mick, Dont worry, there are quite a lot of "budget consious" brewers out there; me being one of them. Having said that, I have no problem paying for quality, but I despise being ripped off - and price certainly does NOT equal quality! It might have once, but not these days....

If you're paying $3 for a SS ball valve off Ebay, Id be wary; but likewise paying $30 for one from a shop front doesnt necessarily make it any better....but theres well priced decent stuff out there. 

Ive found Connor Breware and Gryphon (now Online Brewing Supplies) to both be good, and if you can find a specialised stanless place in your area that can be a great option also - they also might offer stainless welding which might come in handy for you at some stage, and depending on the place, when they know you're a homebrewer things can sometimes become easier and cheaper (not always, but sometimes....)



Cheers

Baz


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## JaseH (12/5/14)

Where are you located? I'm a tight arse and built my brewery using mostly fittings from Geordi (http://www.geordi.com.au/). They are just up the road from me so I could go in person, pay cash and they'd give quite a substantial discount. 

I have also bought a few fittings from Keg King - but again I can go into the store in person and check the quality on the items before buying. If your buying camlock QD's - either buy more than enough at once or get them from somewhere local that you can return to. They are not all built to standard so camlocks from one manufacturer may not fit another - if you need to get more a later date.


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## mofox1 (12/5/14)

Cheers all.

Looks like I'll visit Keg King for the majority. I need 1/2" hose anyway and they're certainly the cheapest I've found for that.

I'm still finding it hard to source the 1-1/8" washers (~28mm, link) that fit around the silicone o-rings in the Electric Brewery setup (are they really necessary?). Does anyone have a good supplier for these (or excess yourself)? From the Amazon link above, it's about $15 for 5 including postage. I got a quote from one of the suggested aussie stores, but they're coming in at $6.10 a washer (before postage) and they're not local.

This might belong in a separate thread, but can anyone offer advice on the quick (dis)connects from KK? Are they any good?

I was just going to use barbs, but I like the idea of hot wort not being able to scold me when hoses pop off...

Cheers,
Mick


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## JaseH (12/5/14)

Not familiar with the electric brewery, but if the washers are just for weldless bulk heads - KK have silicon o-rings that fit into SS grooved nuts which they also supply. I've found these to work well as you can tighten the bulk head down hard without pinching or squashing the o-ring seal.


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## mofox1 (12/5/14)

Frothie said:


> Not familiar with the electric brewery, but if the washers are just for weldless bulk heads - KK have silicon o-rings that fit into SS grooved nuts which they also supply. I've found these to work well as you can tighten the bulk head down hard without pinching or squashing the o-ring seal.


Good to know - I couldn't see them listed as a separate item in their parts list, but it wouldn't make sense if you couldn't get spares/replacements.

The electric brewery (apparantly) use the same method for weldless fitting as the Blichman (sp?) kettles. While they do use a grooved lock nut, they also put around the o-ring a stainless steel washer with a larger ID than the o-ring OD so that you can do it up tight and not have to worry about over compressing the o-ring.

They also use fairly fat o-rings (1/8" or ~3.2mm), I figure if I just use the thinner 2.5mm o-rings then I don't need the extra washer. Plus, you can pick up a pack of 10 on ebay for $3.50.

Keg King also stocks silicone washers to fit 1/2" fittings, which could work a treat between the 1/2" BSP female end of the a compression fitting and the kettle wall...

Mick.


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## Camo6 (12/5/14)

I agree with Frothie and have found it much easier to get a good seal with the grooved nut and heavy duty silicon o ring. Flat silicone washers tend to spread too much when you really tighten up your fittings. Not sure if KK supply the HD o rings but I got mine from Craftbrewer or Online Brewing Supplies from memory.


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## JaseH (12/5/14)

If you have the opportunity to pop into KK to see what they have before ordering too much online then its worthwhile, its a bit like a home brewery candy store! You can chat to the guys about set-up as well and they'll also give you a discount for cash sales.


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## mofox1 (12/5/14)

Damn.

Does anyone know where to get a female BSP compression fitting? The only stockist I can find is Geordi, but they don't list prices.

Can't even find it on ebay :blink: !

Might give Geordi a call tomorrow (thanks Frothie), but would have thought the piece should have been easier to find.

Cheers.


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## TheWiggman (13/5/14)

I haven't even seen a female compression fitting mofox1. Normal practice is the use a female-female coupling on a male fitting to acheive the same result.
If you really want the female fitting, I'd see Pirtek, Bosch Rexroth or a similar hydraulic supplier. Be prepared to pay about $45 for a single fitting (unless you have a business account).

Ed: actually, normal practice is to configre your system so a female fitting is not required.


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## mofox1 (13/5/14)

Yeah - I'm starting to realise that. Trouble is, they're pretty useful for bulkheads.

I used to work at a small engineering place, and we used 1/4" and/or 1/8" female thread compression fittings for gas. They would have been stainless too. Might pay them a visit.

Otherwise, If I can't get one locally I might just get the NPT fitting from Amazon and tap it out.

I don't really like the idea of using a female to female coupling, because:
- it will stick out further after I add the female coupling + male compression (purely aesthetics)
- there's a single part to do the job (me being anally retentive)
- There more internal spaces for gunk to get caught/harder to clean (possibly the only valid reason)

Pic:









Cheers.


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## wessmith (13/5/14)

Couple of suggestions for you all. SS fittings: http://www.tsvalves.com.au/index.php They are based in Ingleburn south of Sydney. For HHS taps and stuff try: www.lprtoolmakers.com. Melbourne based. 

Wes


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## JaseH (13/5/14)

You'll quickly go broke using SS compression fittings! This is one area where my tight arsedness led me to use brass/copper and an olive compression fitting. Cheaply sourced from the big green shed.


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## mofox1 (13/5/14)

Thanks Wes, not sure how I missed that when I looked them up earlier. :huh:

Have you purchased from them before?

All good for taps and chassis punches, stumbled across a gold mine in a future brother in law.

Mick.


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## mofox1 (13/5/14)

Frothie said:


> You'll quickly go broke using SS compression fittings! This is one area where my tight arsedness led me to use brass/copper and an olive compression fitting. Cheaply sourced from the big green shed.


Haha, I think so. Early bets indicate that the one female compassion fitting is going to be more expensive than the rest of the bulk head, tap, and qd fittings for the hose combined! 

Mick.


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## wessmith (13/5/14)

mofox1 said:


> Thanks Wes, not sure how I missed that when I looked them up earlier. :huh:
> 
> Have you purchased from them before?
> 
> ...


We use both companies and have bought a lot of stuff from T&S Stainless. Good prices and quality.

Wes


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## bazfletch3 (13/5/14)

Connor Breware sell a compression to female fitting, but it's NPT

http://connorbreware.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64_97&product_id=194

They also sell a combination compression/bulkhead fitting which I've used on my pots; essentially a single fitting which I can attach a pickup tube to internally, and a ball valve outside (NPT also)

http://connorbreware.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=64_94&product_id=184

Apologies if the links don't work, I'm working off my mobile.

Cheers

Baz


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## Mardoo (13/5/14)

Ooo, that bulkhead to compression is slick. I've had the very bulky female to female sleeve setup for my pickup tube and finally dumped the whole setup. I may have another go with this fitting. Thanks!!!


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## mofox1 (13/5/14)

Noice... Definately is slick Mardoo!

Might be enough to tip me back to the 60o thread side.

Cheers.


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## mofox1 (13/5/14)

Definite "no go" for the female BSP compression fittings.

TS came back with $40, Geordi was $50.

In the other hand, Geordi said they would be able to source a BSP equivalent to the drool factor NPT bulkhead from Connor Breware. 

Don't have prices yet....

Cheers.


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## Mardoo (13/5/14)

Love to hear what that price is.


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## mofox1 (14/5/14)

Mardoo said:


> Love to hear what that price is.


So would I. When I mentioned that I could get the NPT fitting for a lobster, he said there was no way they could supply compression fittings for that price.

Looks like Connor's it is - thanks Baz!

Cheers,
Mick


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## billygoat (14/5/14)

TheWiggman said:


> I haven't even seen a female compression fitting mofox1. Normal practice is the use a female-female coupling on a male fitting to acheive the same result.
> If you really want the female fitting, I'd see Pirtek, Bosch Rexroth or a similar hydraulic supplier. Be prepared to pay about $45 for a single fitting (unless you have a business account).
> 
> Ed: actually, normal practice is to configre your system so a female fitting is not required.


Not sure what industry you work in Wiggman, but female compression fittings are used extensively in the gas, oil and petrochemical industry. Nearly always Swagelok which are NPT.


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## pk.sax (14/5/14)

Yep, got that very bulkhead compression fitting from Connor along with the keg deal. They are awesome.


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## TheWiggman (14/5/14)

Mine processing (mill and crushing lubrication systems) and mobile mining equipment is my experience with hydraulics. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough and they are out there, but male are the norm because when you machine into a hydraulic block you'll always tap out a hole into it for a lube line. For mill lube systems it's no different. 
I haven't head of Swagelok prior to you mentioning it. From what I can see they're a brand who employ the common hydraulic compression fitting. There are a number of companies that will fit a 12.7mm pipe. 
Maybe I took the BSP thing with a grain of salt because all Standard water fittings in Aus are BSP. As are the fittings on brew sites. I'd bet the US gear on site though probably has NPT if you're saying it's common in petrochemical.


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## pk.sax (14/5/14)

Swagelocks are also kinda very common on aircraft hydraulic lines.

http://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/En/ms-01-140.pdf


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## mofox1 (15/5/14)

Swagelock... That was it. Pretty much all we used for the gas sampling lines.

I'm in a completely different industry to that job now. To the detriment of my rig build too! 

Mick.


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## spudfarmerboy (15/5/14)

Swagelok brand fittings are probably the most used fittings in the petro/gas industry in Australia and all over the world. Extremely high quality and expensive, US made I believe.
Mainly used on instrumentation lines such as impulse lines, gas sampling lines etc.
Also seen them used in power stations, large breweries and paper mills.


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## booargy (15/5/14)

spudfarmerboy said:


> Swagelok brand fittings are probably the most used fittings in the petro/gas industry in Australia and all over the world. Extremely high quality and expensive, US made I believe.
> Mainly used on instrumentation lines such as impulse lines, gas sampling lines etc.
> Also seen them used in power stations, large breweries and paper mills.


 if you buy them you agree not to on sell them to Sudan, Iran or anyone else who won't do as they are told.


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## mofox1 (15/5/14)

Done.

Bulkheads from Connor Breware.
3 piece (kettle) and 2 piece (HLT) coming too.
Cam locks and pickup tubes will be ordered shortly.

Then it's off to Keg King for the miscellanea (tubes, clamps, spare O's, pump, refractometer, thermometer.. oh god help me).

Thanks all for the help! 

Mick.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

I would just go with BSP....its widely available, std in Australia, and you can find fittings anyware, you can swap with your friends, heaps of fittings that brewers use are BSP...

And they work perfectly well

And at the end of the day....fancy fittings wont help you make better beer.....


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## Mardoo (16/5/14)

This is an awesome thread (pun not intended but gratefully accepted). One of those little details I've been meaning to wrap my head around. Thanks guys!


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## Hawko777 (30/8/14)

I work with this stuff all the time and I can tell you now that bsp is a 55° whitworth thread and npt a 60° . The roots and crests are totally different on both and not good practice to try and match them. Silly in fact. Do it right and do it once.
bsp is prevalent in Australia and npt is common in the USA. Bsp is readily available to you everywhere including Bunnings. You will find our brew stores stock alot of bsp fittings. BSPP(Parallel) are designed to seal with a dowdy seal, o-ring, or washer, not thread tape or thread sealant of any kind. I know folks have the best intentions, but please, do a proper job and you will not regret it.
If you are going to use stainless fittings excluding swagelok, I recommend using stainless teflon thread tape as this will stop gawling. All your other bsp fittings just use normal thread tape.
others have mentioned camlock fittings, they are great and I use them myself and are easy to connect and remove.

Good luck with your brewing ventures


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## MastersBrewery (31/8/14)

Hawko777 said:


> I work with this stuff all the time and I can tell you now that bsp is a 55° whitworth thread and npt a 60° . The roots and crests are totally different on both and not good practice to try and match them. Silly in fact. Do it right and do it once.
> bsp is prevalent in Australia and npt is common in the USA. Bsp is readily available to you everywhere including Bunnings. You will find our brew stores stock alot of bsp fittings. BSPP(Parallel) are designed to seal with a dowdy seal, o-ring, or washer, not thread tape or thread sealant of any kind. I know folks have the best intentions, but please, do a proper job and you will not regret it.
> If you are going to use stainless fittings excluding swagelok, I recommend using stainless teflon thread tape as this will stop gawling. All your other bsp fittings just use normal thread tape.
> others have mentioned camlock fittings, they are great and I use them myself and are easy to connect and remove.
> ...


What is this dark magic you speak of?


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## Mardoo (31/8/14)

The stainless is strong in this one.


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## TidalPete (31/8/14)

Looking for cheap 3\8" NPT ss fittings for new Brew Bucket valve.
Need 304 SS barb, 304 SS nipple, SS lock nuts & maybe something similar to this which should (hopefully) get that BB pickup tube working ok? --------- http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130685801568?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Any help appreciated.

PS ---- Don't suppose anyone has a link to lengths of 3\8" NPT ss All-Thread????????????????????
This would be excellent! :super:


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## Camo6 (31/8/14)

Hey TP, I found this guy on ebay and am waiting for an 1/2" to 8mm comp fitting. Price was cheap but it took two weeks to notify me it had been posted so not holding my breath. If it turns up soon I'll let you know.
As for 3/8" all thread (tube I assume) have you tried Geordi or Protech? If they don't have it they could probably source it. You may have to buy more than you need though.


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## TidalPete (31/8/14)

Thanks for your help Camo, 
I'll check out that Evilbay link.
As you've probably worked out by now, all I'm looking for is a sanitary way of kegging from my new Brew Bucket as the (supplied) ball valve could do with an upgrade ASAP.


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## Mardoo (31/8/14)

IIRC Nev of online brewing can whip up some all-thread. IIRC, that is...


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## Hawko777 (1/9/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> What is this dark magic you speak of?


hey mate
No dark magic just some advice from my experience the the oil and gas/ mining industry. I wanted to share so mistakes can be avoided. 
Bspp threads should always be sealed with the dowdy, o-ring or washer. A dowdy seal is a metal washer with a rubber insert to seal. This is used alot in hydraulics. The o-rings will seal around the stem which more often than not will have an o-ring seat(smooth recess). This will also retain the seal in place.
Good fittings make life easy with no leaks or blowouts. Nothing worse when you're right in the middle of a brew.

Happy brewing

On Tap
1 English Pale Ale
2 Hoegaarden
3 Oktoberfest
4 nil
5 nil


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## Fat Bastard (1/9/14)

I think he was having a subtle dig at your spelling of Dowty Seal, rather than asking what one was.

On the other topic, you're correct. I'll elaborate on why I think you're also wrong and the definition of quality at a later date when I can get near a proper computer.


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## Fat Bastard (1/9/14)

Sorry, that reply sounded rather rude, which was not my intention.

While it's nice to use the proper gear and matching thread forms, it's not a realistic proposition for most of the tight arsed homebrewers out there. Most weldless fittings, the kind that use an all thread nipple are 1/2" BSPP or NPP, and most will try to use a 1/2" BSP or NPT ball valve for example, as that is all that is readily available. I've done it myself, but probably with a better degree of success, because I have access to the right gear and equipment to tap the BSPT thread out to BSPP so I can get more than 2 threads of engagement. I know parallel pipe threads are designed to have some sort of seal like a Dowty seal or some other sort of thing like a crush washer, but honestly for the type of joints we use, it's not going to work most of the time because there's nothing to sandwich the seal between. I use a high temp sealant like Loctite 577, which is also certified for potable water and won't change the taste of your beer. It also fills the root gaps on the thread and limits the ability of wort to get in and turn rancid. Most guys will use some sort of nasty thread tape, which is what i draw the line at.

Ultimately, it does not matter if we match BSPP with NPT or BSPP as long as it does the job required. That it's fit for purpose, which is the definition of quality. A Ferrari might be a quality motor car for most people, but it isn't if you live 12 miles up a rough dirt track at the back of Dubbo. An old Hilux covered in dings and scratches is a much better proposition.

Sorry, rabbiting on a bit now.

Buy a 1/2" BSPP tap, some sealant and don't get too caught up with thread forms. We're not trying to send a man to the moon here.

Cheers,

FB.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/9/14)

Reminds me of the time I went into the local pump shop to get some fittings for the house pump..tank water blah..blah...blah

In the corner was a pressure pump with attached pressure tank....for all the world to see

I kid you not, it had a ball of silicon as big as a soccer ball around the whole assembly

Old mate had used different threaded pipe, and to stop the leak he kept trying to cover it in silicon...about 20 tubes

So I guess it pays to get your threads right first time..


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## Mardoo (2/9/14)

Hey FB, what's the issue with thread tape? Never heard anyone dis it before so I'm curious.


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## SmallFry (2/9/14)

Mardoo said:


> Hey FB, what's the issue with thread tape? Never heard anyone dis it before so I'm curious.


Agreed.
I use pink plumbers tape, and generally strip & reassemble my ball valves & weldless fittings with each brew. 
What do you perceive as the issue with thread tape?


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## mofox1 (2/9/14)

Might think about giving the loctite a go... used to use it way back when doing assembly work at a engineering joint. At least for the bits I don't anticipate removing periodically.

Then again I do remember someone here having serious issues with off flavours (Wiggman?) - might pay ot know which sealant was used there.


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## mofox1 (2/9/14)

And for what it's worth - since starting this thread I have mixed *some *BSP & NPT bits (mostly BSP camlock ends on NPT ball valves) and haven't had any issues. Although where possible I'll try and match like to like.

Most of my stuff is NPT now, except for pumps, pump fittings and camlocks, and I've taken to marking my BSP pieces to indicate such.


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## MastersBrewery (2/9/14)

mofox1 said:


> Might think about giving the loctite a go... used to use it way back when doing assembly work at a engineering joint. At least for the bits I don't anticipate removing periodically.
> 
> Then again I do remember someone here having serious issues with off flavours (Wiggman?) - might pay ot know which sealant was used there.


Wiggmans issue was eventually tracked back to a silicone sealant not lock tight


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## TheWiggman (2/9/14)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76055-all-grain-3v-electric-system/?p=1129061

Bit of both, which made it all hard. "Bleugh *wretch* plastic!", remove variable and rebrew. "Bleugh less offensive plastic!", remove variable and rebrew.
To be honest I've carried on a bit too much regarding the use of sealants as mine were not rated for food-contact applications (though the Boston sealant is water safe and has a large temp range). But when you had the fury of 1000 suns going like I did I beleive I was warranted to overreact.

I hypocritically have a mix of fittings and bought what was available. All BSP though. There aren't many connections that some elbow grease and a few more turns of plumbers' tape can't fix. This attitude absoutely does not apply to high pressure applications like hydraulics though.

For home brew, if it doesn't leak, good to go. Still best to stick with BSP(T) because that's what's most readily available in Aus.


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## Fat Bastard (2/9/14)

Mardoo said:


> Hey FB, what's the issue with thread tape? Never heard anyone dis it before so I'm curious.


Mostly a personal vendetta against it. It works and it's cheap. However, I don't like it because if it breaks loose from the fitting it's meant to be sealing it can get into whatever you're trying to prevent from getting out. Probably not a problem in brewing systems, but causes all sorts of havoc with spool valves in pneumatic systems. I won't use it on metal to metal threads at all, but on plastic threads and anything you have to repeatedly undo and do up again, it's good.

Getting it off the threads is a mighty pain in the posterior too!


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## SmallFry (2/9/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> Mostly a personal vendetta against it. It works and it's cheap. However, I don't like it because if it breaks loose from the fitting it's meant to be sealing it can get into whatever you're trying to prevent from getting out. Probably not a problem in brewing systems, but causes all sorts of havoc with spool valves in pneumatic systems. I won't use it on metal to metal threads at all, but on plastic threads and anything you have to repeatedly undo and do up again, it's good.
> 
> Getting it off the threads is a mighty pain in the posterior too!


Go pink, not white.

But you probably already knew that.


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## Fat Bastard (2/9/14)

SmallFry said:


> Go pink, not white.
> 
> But you probably already knew that.


 I should point out here, that a very long time ago, I worked as an engineer for Loctite. The natural enemy of Loctite is thread tape.

I no longer work for them as they were not a very nice company to work for, but the product is excellent.

And yes, I knew that!


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## Camo6 (2/9/14)

So 577 hasn't given you any dramas FB. No off tastes? I've got a couple of tubes of this floating around that I use for auto lpg connections but would never have been game to use it on my brewrig. Thread tape suits my purpose for now but I do get evidence of sappy wort at a couple of connections that this might fix.


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## Fat Bastard (2/9/14)

Not at all. If you've used it a bit in the past, you'd know it has a distinctive, but not entirely unpleasant smell and taste. I've never detected it in my beer, although I've been quite careful to wipe off any obvious excess and flush the system with PBW and Starsan for a few hours. Because it won't cure outside the joint, it flushes out pretty easily.

Works a treat on compression fittings too.


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/9/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> You couldn't pay me to use a carbon steel tap. It might only be 22 bucks but it'll cost you a minimum of 100 to get the bastard spark eroded out if it picks up and jams or you could just junk the bit you're tapping into and buy a new one.
> 
> Buy a HSS one and use it properly and you won't have a problem. It'll last you a lifetime too, and you can probably pay for it in beers from your mates tapping out their threads.
> 
> I write this advice as someone who made a lot of money out of removing broken taps from expensive parts in a former life.


I was yelling your name this morning


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## Fat Bastard (6/9/14)

Did it get the broken tap out?


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## TidalPete (6/9/14)

One would hope so FB & as an ex fitter\welder I endorse your earlier post. 

On another thread-related matter ------------- Has anyone ever noticed that 3\8" BSP lock nuts are as scarce as hen's teeth?

Quite easy to buy 3\8" BSP ss hardware such as 3-piece ball valves, nipples, barbs, etc, but try to get a couple of the above lock nuts then you're doing the hard yards. Even when you do find a (rare) seller then they want an arm & a leg for a lousy ss nut. <_<

Any links to 3\8" BSP ss nuts at a reasonable price appreciated.


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## pk.sax (6/9/14)

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=331214877221

?


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## billygoat (6/9/14)

practicalfool said:


> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=331214877221
> 
> ?


You've linked to 3/8 UNC, Pete was after 3/8 BSP, no match.

Pete,
I got 3/8 BSP lock nuts/backing nuts, but in brass, from Enzed.
They said they could get SS but I settled for the brass as it wasn't in contact with wort and they had them in stock.


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/9/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> Did it get the broken tap out?


Well it took a lot of patients, some punches, small chisel, fencing pliers. and a hammer

Just took it nice and easy


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## Fat Bastard (6/9/14)

Been there done that! Somewhere in my tools is a tin full of carbide and HSS rods with ground ends expressly for the purpose of slowly chipping broken taps out of valuable parts. Takes a while, but you can eventually get there.

I miss having easy access to a spark eroder though!


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## TidalPete (6/9/14)

Thanks for your help billygoat & PF. 
I reckon Enzed is just about the only place I haven't tried so far. Pirtek down the road couldn't help & Ebay was far too expensive.

I'll give Enzed a go next week.
I was looking at filling up a few nuts with silver solder & re-tapping. PITA.


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/9/14)

I have always kept punches and chisels...come in very handy


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## mofox1 (6/9/14)

TidalPete said:


> Thanks for your help billygoat & PF.
> I reckon Enzed is just about the only place I haven't tried so far. Pirtek down the road couldn't help & Ebay was far too expensive.
> 
> I'll give Enzed a go next week.
> I was looking at filling up a few nuts with silver solder & re-tapping. PITA.


Was it just 1/2" that shared a pitch with bsp, i seem to recall it was two sizes?

I've got a couple of 3/8 NPT lock nuts I can part with. Don't know off the top of my head if it's bsp compatible like the 1/2" (mostly) is.


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## Camo6 (6/9/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> Been there done that! Somewhere in my tools is a tin full of carbide and HSS rods with ground ends expressly for the purpose of slowly chipping broken taps out of valuable parts. Takes a while, but you can eventually get there.
> 
> I miss having easy access to a spark eroder though!


Reminds me of the Ford 5.4l 3 valve engine. At higher kms the lower half of the spark plug would carbon up and snap off in the head on removal. The trick was to de-carbonise and get the bugger red hot (a solid roadtest with the thermo fans unplugged helped). When they snapped it was a case of chipping away the ceramic insulator with a centre punch until you could tap the shell and remove it with a puller...or pull the heads off.


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## TidalPete (6/9/14)

mofox1 said:


> Was it just 1/2" that shared a pitch with bsp, i seem to recall it was two sizes?
> 
> I've got a couple of 3/8 NPT lock nuts I can part with. Don't know off the top of my head if it's bsp compatible like the 1/2" (mostly) is.


Thanks for the offer mofox1. It's much appreciated. :icon_cheers:

You're probably referring to both 1\2" & 3\4" BSP & NPT that are compatible in a no-pressure situation like ours.
3\8" BSP is 19 TPI & 3\8 NPT is 18 TPI more's the pity.


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## mofox1 (11/9/14)

TidalPete said:


> Thanks for the offer mofox1. It's much appreciated. :icon_cheers:
> 
> You're probably referring to both 1\2" & 3\4" BSP & NPT that are compatible in a no-pressure situation like ours.
> 3\8" BSP is 19 TPI & 3\8 NPT is 18 TPI more's the pity.


Came across these guys: http://www.kingfittings.com.au/collections/stainless-steel-fittings/products/lock-nut-stainless-steel-bsp

3/8" lock nuts for $5.45, + $20 postage... although if you're in the brissy area you might be able to pick up.


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