# Australian IPA



## bradsbrew

Would like to here peoples ideas and suggestions on what an Australian IPA should be. I have often thought of doing one but without having something to aim for I havnt bothered.

This thread from the ESB club, http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77589-its-the-2014-extra-special-brewers-homebrew-competition/ , has got me inspired and would like peoples thought on ingredients and commercial examples. Although I have linked to the comp that ESB are running, I am more asking for personal opinions on what an Aussie IPA is. 

The guys at ESB have done a great job of a style guideline as per below. My question is how does/should it differ from its American and English counterparts.


*Australian India Pale Ale*
*OG 1.056 - 1.075 *
*IBU 40 – 70+ *
*SRM 6 - 15
FG 1.010 - 1.018 *
*ABV 5.5 – 7.5%*

*Aroma* - A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, or tropical fruit
character derived from Australian hops. Many versions are dry hopped and
can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required.
Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected. Some clean
malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower
level than in English examples. Some alcohol may be noted.

*Appearance* - Colour ranges from medium gold to medium copper; some
versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered
dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand with white to offwhite
colour should persist.

*Flavour *- Hop flavour is medium to high, and should reflect an Australian
hop character with citrusy, and/or tropical fruit aspects. Medium-high to very
high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop
character and provide the best balance. Malt flavour should be low to
medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or
toasty flavours are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. The bitterness may
linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish.
Some clean alcohol flavour can be noted in stronger versions. Oak and Rye
are inappropriate in this style.

*Mouthfeel* - Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without
hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can
combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt
sweetness. Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in
stronger (but not all) versions. Body is generally less than in English
counterparts.

*Impression* - A hop forward strong Australian pale ale, with prominent
citrus and/or tropical fruit flavours with a dry finish.

*Ingredients* - Well-modified pale malt plus a touch of pale crystal and
wheat. Australian hops are necessary. Late hop additions recommended.
Australian yeast or English yeast that provides some complementary esters.


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## bradsbrew

Don't really want to get into the whole "If its grown here, it can go in an Aussie IPA" argument. That would mean that if I make an aussie pale ale I can use any hops grown in Australia which would not be to style.

There is a big difference between the American and English IPA, how should an Aussie one be different?

Cheers


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## Yob

Cascade... 

English Yeast? Blasphemous.. h34r:


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## GalBrew

I personally believe that to make an Australian IPA, you need to use all Australian ingredients. In particular I think that you need to use our unique ingredients, namely POR and galaxy and a coopersesque yeast. I guess it's pretty hard to define these things but I think provenance is important, as is using ingredients known internationally for their 'Australianess' in a fledgling style. That being said I could be full of crap, who knows??

Edit: I also think stylistcally we are a bit of a US/UK hybrid in some respects. Again, could be FOS.


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## indica86

Coopers yeast


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## bradsbrew

> Cascade...
> 
> English Yeast? Blasphemous.. h34r:


Thanks for the help, Yob.


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## bradsbrew

> I personally believe that to make an Australian IPA, you need to use all Australian ingredients. In particular I think that you need to use our unique ingredients, namely POR and galaxy and a coopersesque yeast. I guess it's pretty hard to define these things but I think provenance is important, as is using ingredients known internationally for their 'Australianess' in a fledgling style. That being said I could be full of crap, who knows??


Yes I was thinking

Galaxy malt

Wheat malt

Oats, yes oats

Crystal

Chocolate malt

Vic Secret FWH

POR @ 30

Vic Secret @ 5

Galaxy @ whirlpool

Topaz dry

Coopers Yeast

Have not used galaxy or topaz


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## law-of-ohms

What 'Australian' ale yeasts are available?


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## bradsbrew

> What 'Australian' ale yeasts are available?


Coopers


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## GalBrew

We'll I haven't used topaz myself, but galaxy at whirlpool is great IMHO. What yeast did you have in mind? You know thinking about the history of the Australian beer scene, perhaps an Australian India Pale Lager would be the go??


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## Yob

Bollox to cooper's yeast.. Does raise an interesting point though, with limitations on the hops, limitations on the yeast should also have been placed to 'even the field'..

For me, limited or no crystal's, fairly dry so a low to medium stepped mash, probably no greater than 50 - 60 IBU. No more than 30℅ of the IBU early, the rest late.. Very late.

Mostly traditional malt with a good whack of wheat to give a nice creamy head, I'd like to say a bit of Munich and or buscit for malt depth... But won't..

Better?


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## GalBrew

I agree with the wheat and the dryness.


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## bradsbrew

I don't see why we should be limited in malt use.


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## fcmcg

Aussie hops....
here is a wiki list...
Ella
Feux-Coeur Francais
Pride of Ringwood
Rakau
Sticklebract
Summer
Super Pride
Topaz
Vic Secret

Yeast..well i reckon coopers is a bit on the avg side..so i'd go us-05 ...clean
And i'd hazard a guess we should be using Aussie malt...but i reckon Marris lol...and some wheat and of course good old joe white crystal
Cheers
Ferg


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## bradsbrew

Just so we are on the same page, are we talking coopers bottle yeast not packet?

I get a lovely pear note from coopers bottle yeast, should go well with the hops?


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## GalBrew

And a good portion of Aussie cane sugar (5-10%)??


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## Yob

Isn't sticklebract grown in un-zud?


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## manticle

Should suit the climate so lower alc like ik but drier and less crystal than uk
Should ne more options than just coopers for yeast though.


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## GalBrew

bradsbrew said:


> Just so we are on the same page, are we talking coopers bottle yeast not packet?
> I get a lovely pear note from coopers bottle yeast, should go well with the hops?


Yep, keep it reasonably cool and you will get plenty of pear, but not over the top. Also agree with the lower ABV.


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## timmi9191

Are you defining a beer style or creating a set of brewing rules?


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## fcmcg

Yob said:


> Isn't sticklebract grown in un-zud?


Choice bro...
Wiki is wrong...bro...
Your right bro...maybe you should get into the hop business , seeing you know your shut , eh bro h34r:


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## bradsbrew

> Are you defining a beer style or creating a set of brewing rules?


More the definition of the style. Which in hand would have "a set of brewing rules" to meet that style much like how you would change malt, hops and mashing schedule to brew an AIPA or IPA.


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## GalBrew

bradsbrew said:


> More the definition of the style. Which in hand would have "a set of brewing rules" to meet that style much like how you would change malt, hops and mashing schedule to brew an AIPA or IPA.


On that thought, should an Australian IPA not be an extension of an Australian Pale Ale (which has a style guideline), much like an American IPA, has its roots in an APA?


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## timmi9191

Must use aus hops, must use aus malts, must use cooper yeast.. Sounds more like rules than defining a style..

Does it matter how the brewer achieved the end result as long it fits the defined style??


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## bradsbrew

GalBrew said:


> On that thought, should an Australian IPA not be an extension of an Australian Pale Ale (which has a style guideline), much like an American IPA, has its roots in an APA?


I guess you then need to go back to the origins og the India Pale Ale (IPA) that was given the higher alc and hops to blahdiddityblahbla....

I cant see how that could work when the aussie pale ale traditionally has no late hops. I would like to think that the Aussie IPA could be the extension of the pale ale by adding the extra late hops?


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## manticle

Fair enough point timmi. While many bjcp and aabc guidelines suggest 'x hop is out of style' none of them to my knowledge say 'must use y ingredient'.

Bohemian pilsner doesn't have to, for example, use a czech yeast - just have characteristics commonly associated with said yeast.

Aussie pale ale is so far in its infancy in comps and I think the guidelines need a shit ton of work. I think it even suggests coopers should not be the benchmark (at least they did when they were first written)but until we start playing around a lot more with the newer au hops, that really defines the style historically.


Are aussie apas and ipas just another apa/aipa with AU ingredients? Not necessarily a bad place to start because obviously the style can eveolve. Or are we trying to revive brewing history, pre- the CUB homogenisation of AU beer?


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## bradsbrew

> Must use aus hops, must use aus malts, must use cooper yeast.. Sounds more like rules than defining a style.. Does it matter how the brewer achieved the end result as long it fits the defined style??


So if I mash at mild temps, use some german hops and a Belgian yeast you would accept that as a an AIPA?


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## bradsbrew

> Fair enough point timmi. While many bjcp and aabc guidelines suggest 'x hop is out of style' none of them to my knowledge say 'must use y ingredient'.
> 
> Bohemian pilsner doesn't have to, for example, use a czech yeast - just have characteristics commonly associated with said yeast.


I don't think they use the word "must", but pretty sure they suggest/recommend


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## GalBrew

bradsbrew said:


> I would like to think that the Aussie IPA could be the extension of the pale ale by adding the extra late hops?


That was my thoughts, having some sort of link to the Oz pale and taking it further would be great.


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## MartinOC

I agree with Galbrew that Aust. IPA would/could/should be a natural extension of Aust. Pale ale.

I'd question the use of Chocolate malt - can't see it as traditional, other than as a mistake by early colonial maltsters screwing-up & passing-it off to unsuspecting brewers as "new". Also, it detracts from the "Pale" aspect of IPA.

Hops - pretty much anything could be employed, but I can't see the historical relevance of fruity/citrus (ie. Cascade), as they're not types natural to, or developed in Aus.

Yeast - Coopers-style is the obvious choice ( Traditional, temperature-tolerant, fruity on it's own with no need for hop contribution, good attenuator, potentially a bit phenolic etc..etc..).

0.02c


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## manticle

@bradsbrew: They do recommend/suggest typical ingredients to get to the final product, but the beer is meant to be judged by how well it meets the descriptors rather than what actually got it there.

So - if it's entered as a bo-pils but it tastes like chinook, then it will bomb. If it's a bo pils that tastes like saaz, it will do well _even if_ chinook was used somewhere in the process.

A small distinction but important and I think what Timmi was getting at


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## manticle

bradsbrew said:


> So if I mash at mild temps, use some german hops and a Belgian yeast you would accept that as a an AIPA?


If it tastes like one, yes. As a judge you are not privy to the recipe.

If you can make german hops and belgian yeast taste like an aipa then you deserve to do well in an aipa category.


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## bradsbrew

> I'd question the use of Chocolate malt - can't see it as traditional, other than as a mistake by early colonial maltsters screwing-up & passing-it off to unsuspecting brewers as "new". Also, it detracts from the "Pale" aspect of IPA.


I use a small addition of choc in my SOB's and APA's. But wouldn't in an aussie pale ale. If I was brewing an aussie bitter ale I would.


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## bradsbrew

> If it tastes like one, yes. As a judge you are not privy to the recipe.
> 
> If you can make german hops and belgian yeast taste like an aipa then you deserve to do well in an aipa category.


That is the exact thing I was getting at. There is to a certain point unwritten "rules" on how a certain style can be achieved.


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## kevo

Just reading through the BJCP outline of US IPA - it specifies that the hop character be derived from American hops.

Without intending to start an unending debate of what constitutes an Australian hop - I think this is an important aspect which seems to be absent from the description of an Australian IPA.

Maybe we're trying to create an Australian style American IPA?

edit - on closer inspection - derived from - is mentioned in aroma, not flavour description of AusIPA


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## Charst

manticle said:


> Are aussie apas and ipas just another apa/aipa with AU ingredients? Not necessarily a bad place to start because obviously the style can evolve. Or are we trying to revive brewing history, pre- the CUB homogenisation of AU beer?


I think the fact we are looking to define our own IPA suggests copying in the first. English have one, Americans have one, We potentially want one.
Americans copied the English using local ingredients and made bigger versions of their own local pale ale style.
I think if an OZIPA was to evolve, assuming we need one at all, it would naturally follow suit, a bigger version of our own Pale ale.

Regarding providence the problem is with the American IPA explosion I'm not sure what Australian produced hops I could use that wouldn't find my OZIPA from an aroma perspective bang i the middle of the AIPA's. I've heard Kiwis talk about NZIPA but when i taste them i wouldn't know the difference to an american one. So although its a tight line to follow at the moment if I was to attempt to make an OZIPA id be thinking about making a bigger version of something that falls within the Australian Pale Ale. 

The best things come organically and at the moment I haven't seen all that many home brewers brewing and pushing the envelope of Australian Pale ale to warrant defining a bigger Australian style


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## manticle

@bradsbrew:

Yeah but a person trying to make an aipa using those ingredients is either a genius or a fool. However there are many examples of style crossover that work well - styrian goldings in an aipa or an alt have worked for me - obviously in conjucntion with other, more appropriate/authentic ingredients. I won a state comp with an alt that used styrians for example. Not traditional, not historical, not German but enough of the right characters in the beer to do well.

There are other less blatantly opposed ingredients that may be quite acceptable than your example. Some UK beers have historically used US hops for example and I believe the style guidelines allows for that to a degree. Obviously if you had 50 IBU of late hopped chinook in a UK pale, it would be well out of style but it is the characters in the beer that define what is judged.

I agree the best way to get the characters is usually to use the right ingredients but as a homebrewer you can be creative in attempting to achieve that.

Guidelines should read something like " should display a fruity character from the yeast. Apple, pear and banana are common but should not be overly dominant. Hop character should be fruity and/or woody, with a smooth bitterness. Flavours of passionfruit, loquat, are considered appropriate. Beers that display high levels of flavours associated with US hops such as pine, onions, garlic or grapefruit should be shown the door".

Ingredients: may use australian malts, australian developed and grown hops such as galaxy, stella or Vic Secret, coopers yeast is common.

Blah blah - I think you get what I mean. It's just about the wording.

As for yeast - you could get some nice pear esters from using the duvel/1388 yeast which might work well.


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## manticle

kevo said:


> Just reading through the BJCP outline of US IPA - it specifies that the hop character be derived from American hops.
> 
> Without intending to start an unending debate of what constitutes an Australian hop - I think this is an important aspect which seems to be absent from the description of an Australian IPA.
> 
> Maybe we're trying to create an Australian style American IPA?


You're right - it does. In my opinion it should be more carefully worded (as most of their guidelines are) and say hop character associated or typically associated with US hops, then provide the descriptors (as they do). As a judge you don't know the recipe and shouldn't assume. You judge the beer in front of you as presented and assess its characteristics in relation to the guidelines.


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## kevo

At this point, I don't really see the point of an AusIPA style - but am not opposed to seeing the style be developed.

If there is to be an historical aspect to the beer, I don't see it being so far removed from an English IPA.
If it's to be fruity/citrusy etc - then not unlike a USIPA with Australian hops.

As mentioned by others, is it a stronger/bigger version of an Aus Pale Ale. Is it simply a stronger Aus Pale Ale? Australian Strong Ale?

It really doens't seem clear to me what might ditinguish this style from the variations that already exist.


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## Bobby Smith

Just make a 1.065 60IBU version of Coopers PA.

With cluster.


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## StalkingWilbur

I have no idea what I'm taking about, being a brewing noob and all, but if you're more trying to create a style rather than define what already exists I found the idea of lagering an IPA (developed from an Australian Pale?) interesting in regards to our history and something that wouldn't be a blatant copy of AIPA/EIPA but with Australian hops. 

Again, I'd like to reiterate my lack of knowledge. If this post is retarded and makes no sense please just ignore it haha.


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## brewtas

I was thinking about this a while back when I saw people calling American IPAs with Australian hops as Australian IPAs and came up with a recipe of something more distinctively Australian. I thought something like a higher gravity Aussie lager would be a good place to start. I added the biscuit just because I like it in a hoppy beer. It's got fairly good dose of sugar to help it dry out and I was thinking of a warm ferment with a lager yeast would keep it fairly authentically Australian. For hops I mostly went with new Australian ones although I don't think a NZ hop would go astray in there. The hopping and IBUs are relatively low but that's to take the dry finish into account, it should be plenty bitter enough. I haven't managed to brew it yet but it's on the list.


*Might Be* (Australian IPA)
OG: 1.052
FG: 1.007
IBU: 39
EBC: 10
ABV: 5.9%

86% NFH Pale malt
4% NFH Crackerjack biscuit malt
10% Table sugar

20 IBU POR @ 60 minutes
19 IBU Galaxy @ 0 minutes
30g Galaxy @ dry hop
30g Summer @ dry hop

WY2112 or 2042 - ferment at 14-15C and then lager for 10 days


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## Spiesy

I find this kind of silly… Australian IPA is not yet a style, right? Shouldn't the guidelines be to describe what sort of IPA is being made in Australia that sets us apart from the rest of the world? As opposed to trying to make a style… 

I doubt porter came about because someone was actively trying to make a new BJCP category... correct me if I'm wrong. 

And with Australia's current leaning towards new-world IPA's, I would have thought American yeast would be more prevalent that English yeasts, or are we going with English because of some tie in we have with the Commonwealth?

The fact that we have 1 x Australian yeast to chose from is a little sad.


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## mje1980

Ah beer style guidelines, the religion of brewing!!!. Funny how they are such a new thing in relation to beer production, but can cause serious debate among brewers.


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## brewtas

bradsbrew said:


> Would like to here peoples ideas and suggestions on what an Australian IPA should be. I have often thought of doing one but without having something to aim for I havnt bothered.
> 
> ...
> 
> Although I have linked to the comp that ESB are running, I am more asking for personal opinions on what an Aussie IPA is.





Spiesy said:


> I find this kind of silly… Australian IPA is not yet a style, right? Shouldn't the guidelines be to describe what sort of IPA is being made in Australia that sets us apart from the rest of the world? As opposed to trying to make a style…
> 
> I doubt porter came about because someone was actively trying to make a new BJCP category... correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> And with Australia's current leaning towards new-world IPA's, I would have thought American yeast would be more prevalent that English yeasts, or are we going with English because of some tie in we have with the Commonwealth?
> 
> The fact that we have 1 x Australian yeast to chose from is a little sad.


Spiesy, we're just answering the OP's question, not creating a style guide. What bradsbrew wanted was everyone's opinion on what an Australian IPA might look like. I think it's fun imagining how to create something like that given the available ingredients and our brewing history.


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## NewtownClown

mje1980 said:


> Ah beer style guidelines, the religion of brewing!!!. Funny how they are such a new thing in relation to beer production, but can cause serious debate among brewers.


 No. The it's the religion of brewing _​competitions ! _
I'd probably be comfortable with a religion that had guidelines as opposed to rules and laws.

For an Oz IPA I would suggest wheat is all important as is Australian yeast, ie Coopers (WLP 009).
Historically, before refrigeration, before the American Fosters brothers, before all the marketing hype, most aussie ales were fairly dark. Therefore I would lean towards a brown ale that contains wheat (perhaps crystal wheat and/or midnight/chocolate/etc wheat, too). Mild to no late hop aroma/flavour, allowing the malt to shine - like an English IPA but bolder by comparison (like the Aussie cricket team compared to the English team - Ashes IPA, anyone?)


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## manticle

Bobby Smith said:


> Just make a 1.065 60IBU version of Coopers PA. With cluster.


Cluster is a us hop though innit?
Tastes good with fresh por in a coopers knockoff.


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## DU99

morgans yeast is australian so is Mauribrew


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## SimoB

Great topic!

I like the idea of the crossed lager/IPA idea. I'm pretty sure the first brewer in Australia was James Squire(not the first beer in Australia which came on the first fleet), he was a convict on the first fleet and sold it to officers etc. This was primarily homebrewed ales, brewed using English malts and hops. So using that, maybe a cross bred lager/IPA with a bit of colour to represent the english ale first brewed in Australia.

I know this is steering away of what I think an OZIPA is, and making a style, but I like the idea of doing that as well.. haha


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## NewtownClown

DU99 said:


> is morgans yeast australian


Is White Labs Australian? Whomever packages the yeast is of less importance than the origin of the yeast


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## tiprya

If you look at actual Australian IPA's (which the style should be based on): Hop Hog, LC IPA, Hawthorn IPA - they are all pretty much american IPAs with american yeast and hops.

Given that there are no common commercial 'Australian IPA's with coopers yeast and only Australian hops, this is essentially a made-up style that you can interpret how you want.


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## NewtownClown

SimoB said:


> Great topic!
> 
> I like the idea of the crossed lager/IPA idea. I'm pretty sure the first brewer in Australia was James Squire(not the first beer in Australia which came on the first fleet), he was a convict on the first fleet and sold it to officers etc. This was primarily homebrewed ales, brewed using English malts and hops. So using that, maybe a cross bred lager/IPA with a bit of colour to represent the english ale first brewed in Australia.
> 
> I know this is steering away of what I think an OZIPA is, and making a style, but I like the idea of doing that as well.. haha


John Boston opened the first brewery, James Squire is accredited with cultivating the first hops. Lion Nathan have taken slight poetic license with the Squire history...


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## SimoB

you're mistaking commercial brewery. I said Homebrewed - James Squire is the first known brewer in Australia.

**


sorry to take it off topic


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## Spiesy

NewtownClown said:


> Is White Labs Australian? Whomever packages the yeast is of less importance than the origin of the yeast


USA.


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## yum beer

Lets stop ******* around, the idea of an Aussie IPA is as wankerish as American IPA....IPA is a beer style developed during a historical period, brewed for a purpose by...you guessed it, the English.
America never required or brewed such a beer, neither did Australia....
Its about time they were called what they are.
AIPA should be called Double APA or Strong APA, because thats what it is.
So lets get brewing some Double Aussie Pale Ales with ABV in 6-7% range, with 60-70 IBU.....and forget this nonsense hence forth.


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## brewtas

Because by that rationale American Pale Ale is a way more legitimate style than American IPA...


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## idzy

timmi9191 said:


> Must use aus hops, must use aus malts, must use cooper yeast.. Sounds more like rules than defining a style.. Does it matter how the brewer achieved the end result as long it fits the defined style??


It's a new thing we are introducing called the Ozheitsgebot


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## NewtownClown

Spiesy said:


> USA.


I know that!
DU99 posted "is Morgans Australian?" before he edited it. I was being slightly facetious...
White Labs is American and packages an Australian yeast, WLP-009 (Coopers). The point being it is the _only _recognised truly Australian strain. Just because Morgans and Mauribrew are Australian companies doesn't mean the yeast they package are Australian strains...


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## NewtownClown

yum beer said:


> Lets stop ******* around, the idea of an Aussie IPA is as wankerish as American IPA....IPA is a beer style developed during a historical period, brewed for a purpose by...you guessed it, the English.
> America never required or brewed such a beer, neither did Australia....
> Its about time they were called what they are.
> AIPA should be called Double APA or Strong APA, because thats what it is.
> So lets get brewing some Double Aussie Pale Ales with ABV in 6-7% range, with 60-70 IBU.....and forget this nonsense hence forth.


Are you suggesting styles cannot evolve? Many outside-of-the-box beers are being produced daily in every corner of the world. When one of these strange brews becomes popular enough for other breweries to make a version and homebrewers begin tinkering with them and they are spoken and written about enough, they will become a "style" with guidelines for entering competitions as set out by the BJCP or, here in Australia, the AABC. These guidelines are really all about categorising styles of beer to make judging and entering competitions easier.
We can all recognise pasta as traditional Italian cookery, however 500 years ago they didn't have the ingredients we take to be staples for Italian food.
"Tradition" is the catchcry of those unwilling to evolve


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## Salt

fergthebrewer said:


> Aussie hops....
> here is a wiki list...
> Ella
> Feux-Coeur Francais
> Pride of Ringwood
> Rakau
> Sticklebract
> Summer
> Super Pride
> Topaz
> Vic Secret
> 
> Yeast..well i reckon coopers is a bit on the avg side..so i'd go us-05 ...clean
> And i'd hazard a guess we should be using Aussie malt...but i reckon Marris lol...and some wheat and of course good old joe white crystal
> Cheers
> Ferg


Wiki needs some updating...Rakau and Sticklebract are both NZ hops...and where is Galaxy on that list?


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## tlarnold47

I have been thinking along the lines of an oz IPA ish also and currently have my own rough interpretation on the go. Loosely based on an extra strong coopers pale/sparkling ale with added late new oz hops. Ive been calling it an Oz Extra Pale Ale so far as there isnt really a style for this beer yet. It goes something like this: 
76% jw pale ale malt
17% jw wheat malt
1% dark crystal
6% sugar 
23ibus of POR @ 60 min
Recultured coopers yeast at 17degrees.
8 ibus each of Galaxy and Ella frech pressed for 5 min and added post ferment after crash chilling which I work out to about 3 min boil.

So far samples taste great. 

I think coopers or some other sort of bready/doughy/bananary/peary yeast is essential. Most American ipas are a us05 type or derivative of and most English ones are a clean english ale yeast neither really have a super wide range of yeast character if you want to nail their particular style.


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## tlarnold47

OG 1.066
FG ? Hopefully around 1.011-13


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## MCHammo

NewtownClown said:


> Historically, before refrigeration, before the American Fosters brothers, before all the marketing hype, most aussie ales were fairly dark. Therefore I would lean towards a brown ale that contains wheat (perhaps crystal wheat and/or midnight/chocolate/etc wheat, too). Mild to no late hop aroma/flavour, allowing the malt to shine - like an English IPA but bolder by comparison (like the Aussie cricket team compared to the English team - Ashes IPA, anyone?)



Aussie India Brown Ale?


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## kevo

tlarnold47 said:


> I have been thinking along the lines of an oz IPA ish also and currently have my own rough interpretation on the go. Loosely based on an extra strong coopers pale/sparkling ale with added late new oz hops. Ive been calling it an Oz Extra Pale Ale so far as there isnt really a style for this beer yet. It goes something like this:
> 76% jw pale ale malt
> 17% jw wheat malt
> 1% dark crystal
> 6% sugar
> 23ibus of POR @ 60 min
> Recultured coopers yeast at 17degrees.
> 8 ibus each of Galaxy and Ella frech pressed for 5 min and added post ferment after crash chilling which I work out to about 3 min boil.
> 
> So far samples taste great.
> 
> I think coopers or some other sort of bready/doughy/bananary/peary yeast is essential. Most American ipas are a us05 type or derivative of and most English ones are a clean english ale yeast neither really have a super wide range of yeast character if you want to nail their particular style.


I have considered Stone & Wood Pacific Ale like Coopers PA with Passionfruit...would this make a larger beer with similar character?


----------



## tlarnold47

Possibly, this is mid ferment so I'm not even sure how it'll finish yet but at this stage has more banana/pear yeast character than the stone and wood. If you ran the yeast cooler it could be something like you're eluding to I reckon.


----------



## BingBangBrewhouse

Well I wouldn't call it a style, but it's a fun idea. When your home brewing I reckon do whatever you wantand call it whatever you want. If you were to enter into a competition though you would probably go to the American side. Anyway off that style guidelines stuff. I've recently experimented with coopers yeast. I made a basic 4% PA with cascade as my aroma and flavour. Dry hopped. I found that as the hops started backing off the yeast esters come through and the got a bit muddled. That was fermented at 20C - 22C :| though.


----------



## bradsbrew

bradsbrew said:


> Have the grain cracked for this trial double batch.
> *Convict IPA*
> Australian IPA
> 
> *Recipe Specs*
> ----------------
> Batch Size (L): 45.0
> Total Grain (kg): 11.750
> Total Hops (g): 155.00
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.064 (°P): 15.7
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
> Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.29 %
> Colour (SRM): 13.5 (EBC): 26.5
> Bitterness (IBU): 40.2 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
> Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
> Boil Time (Minutes): 90
> 
> *Grain Bill*
> ----------------
> 9.000 kg Galaxy Malt (76.6%)
> 1.000 kg Wheat Malt (8.51%)
> 0.750 kg Flaked Oats (6.38%)
> 0.500 kg Carared (4.26%)
> 0.500 kg Chocolate, Pale (4.26%)
> 
> *Hop Bill*
> ----------------
> 15.0 g Pride of Ringwood Leaf (8.1% Alpha) @ 45 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
> 45.0 g Victoria Secret Leaf (17.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
> 20.0 g Pride of Ringwood Leaf (8.1% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
> 25.0 g Victoria Secret Leaf (17.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
> 20.0 g Pride of Ringwood Leaf (8.1% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.4 g/L)
> 30.0 g Victoria Secret Leaf (17.2% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.7 g/L)
> 
> *Misc Bill*
> ----------------
> 
> Multi step Infusion starting at 55°C for 10 ramped to 64°C for 60 then ramp to 78, stir then rest for 10. Double batch sparge.
> Fermented at 19°C with WLP013 - London Ale ( yeast cake)
> 
> 
> Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


I am giving this a go.

Mashing low to try and get a drier finish. Added the choc because i think i should be there , as with the oats.


----------



## indica86

Vic Secret is lovely. Currently drinking a mostly single hooped Vic Secret pale...


----------



## Yob

Mostly?


----------



## brewtas

Much better than the ones that are partially single hopped.


----------



## timmi9191

Preferably mostly partially single hopped... 

Reminds of a conversation with SWMBO- I'm a little bit pregnant...


----------



## stakka82

Vic secret is quite nice... have a pale on tap that's_ fully_ single hopped with it at the moment. It's not what I expected, a bit of the fruit that you'd find in an american hop but quite subtle, a bit in common with something english like EKG too. A nice change of pace from in-your-face C hops. 

I bought a four pack of aussie single hop 'IPAs' (4.8%...?) by bridge rd the other day. Had the Vic secret and the Summer last night. Both were very nice, if really just heavily hopped pale ales. The Vic secret was quite resiny, and the Summer had a really smooth bitterness and was very well balanced. Recommended.


----------



## Bridges

indica86 said:


> Vic Secret is lovely. Currently drinking a mostly single hooped Vic Secret pale...





Yob said:


> Mostly?


hooped?


----------



## Bridges

I had the same bridge rd pack a while ago and thought the summer was the clear winner. None of them were bad though and a great pack and marketing exercise. I had 4 of these with a thai feed tonight.





Way too sweet for an IPA and 5.5% I recall a debate about weather Vale IPA fit the guidelines on here a while ago. These definitely don't. Less bitter than a stone and wood pacific ale. Not a bad beer, just a pale ale not an IPA at all.
The four bridge rd were closer to an IPA than this.


edit. re read and realized the beers with dinner had kicked in!


----------



## indica86

Yob said:


> Mostly?


Yes, Magnum for the bittering @ 60. Apparently I'd had a few last night too.


----------



## Dips Me Lid

Something like a ramped up version of Stone and Wood Pacific Ale/Bridge Road Pale Ale would be a good candidate for an OzIPA in my mind. Aroma hops - Galaxy or Summer, bittering hops - Magnum or Horizon, clean base malt, wheat malt, munich malt, soft mouth feel, quenching dry finish, high drinkability, 6% ABV. Yeast wise something fairly neutral, WLP 001 or something similar.

The Bridge Road Galaxy IPA is what comes to mind when I think of Aussie IPA's.


----------



## daveHQ

My favourite was Ella


----------



## Florian

Bobby Smith said:


> Just make a 1.065 60IBU version of Coopers PA.
> 
> With cluster.


I think this was valuable input, actually.

Shame Bobby got banned after his first post.


----------



## manticle

Shame bobby shared an ip address with a bloke who shared an ip address with a bloke who was already banned for being a disruptive prick from day dot.
Banned for being already banned as well as multiple accounts, not for that post.


----------



## manticle

Not very trustworthy the old bobby.
Got nicked didn't he Peter?


----------



## Florian

Pretty obvious who it was without even looking at name or post count.

Oh well, at least Peter was trustworthy I guess, didn't even get one single post in.

Wouldn't have minded to give Bobby a fair go at least, but that's not for me to decide of course.

Sorry for taking this interesting thread off topic.


On topic, and not sure if it has been said already, but are we defining an existing style or are we trying to create one? If creating one, then I don't really see the point.
If something evolves naturally then great, perfect it, make it known/common, and then write the guidelines around that existing style. Seems like we are trying to put the cart before the horse so to speak.
Surely the americans would have evolved from their APA, and then, when trying to define it into a style, realised the connection to an IPA and subsequently called it AIPA, rather than venturing out on a mission to create a new type of IPA?


----------



## manticle

Individual gets banned, not the account. Several have been given a go over the years and guess what? Nine times out of ten, true colours shine.

The one out of ten that is the exception might slip under the radar.

Bobby already had a red hot go, just with a different name.

Definitely time to get back on topic. Anyone wants to make a case for any of the three usernames, by all means PM me and we can chat.


----------



## Bridges

I know a brewer can call a beer what ever they want but this is apparently an Australian IPA. In my experience a damn nice beer too.


----------



## Bridges

Sorry bigger than expected pic!


----------



## kevo

Could you tell us what was in the picture perhaps?

Agree with florian - cart is currently before the horse. But! Keep brewing what you consider an AusIPA - discuss them here, share with mates and maybe down the track a 'style' will present itself.


----------



## Not For Horses

Some interesting points raised in this and I've been thinking about this a bit lately.
Just speaking from personal taste and brewing preference here which is kinda what we're going for right?
I find the IPAs that I make and the commercial beers that I enjoy to be a bit different to US and UK variants.
They are also very different to Aus Pale ales which generally tend to use sugar and early POR hops.
I'm not a big fan of the pine/resin flavours so I avoid those hops. I do like the citrusy/fruity aroma and flavour of some US IPAs though.
I find that US IPA tends to be much more bitter as a general rule so in this regard I prefer UK IPA.
On the other hand, I'm not a huge fan of UK hops in such a large dose as an IPA requires. Too much floral-earth so late is not my bag.
I prefer the maltiness of UK IPA over US.
I personally use less early hops cause I like the big flavour without the extra bitterness.
I also tend to go for lower alcohol versions too. I like to be able to have a few and still drive home.
I've been buying hops in bulk from HPA in Hobart so I've been using all Tassie hops for most of my brews lately regardless of style.
One thing I find different is the fruitiness of a lot of our hop varieties. We have a lot of hops that I find to have soft fruit characters that are not so prevalent in international varieties. Some still have a floral character but more of a fruit blossom rather than wild flower.
I also add wheat to my pale ales cause we grow a lot of it here and I like what it brings to the table.

So I guess an AusIPA for me would be:
A fairly well balanced beer with the emphasis towards hop flavour and aroma.
A lower alcohol version than AIPA with a generally lower perceived bitterness due to the reduced usage of early hops.
Generally fruity hop flavour and aroma but some floral or citrus tones acceptable. Pine/resin flavour and aroma should be avoided.
Good malt backbone with a low to medium wheat/grainy flavour. Biscuit or caramel character optional.
Esters can be low to medium but should not dominate.

OG 1.050-1.065 IBU 40-60 ABV 5-7

Thoughts?


----------



## Bridges

kevo said:


> Could you tell us what was in the picture perhaps?


Yeah sorry I was talking about my previous post the Hawthorn Aus IPA.


----------



## Barry

Just a side point. According to an interview with Dr Tim Cooper (in Radio Brew News 23/03/2012) sugar is no longer used in their beers except a very small amount in their stout and vintage ale for adjustment/profile. So it would probably be better (IMHO) to mash at a lower temp for Australian pale ales and Aussie IPA's. Then again sugar has been/is used in many/most main stream Australian beers. Some American craft brewers also add sugar to lighten the body of their AIPA's given the recipes that I have seen.


----------



## stakka82

Agree bridges, that is a good beer and their pale is a nice drop too.


----------



## technobabble66

Apologies if this has been stated & it's a bit OT, but:
Given the type of weather all of us cop in this great brown land at this time of year, shouldn't one of the primary Aussie styles of beer be a saison?
Maybe instead of rehashing a slight variant of an American or English IPA (& I do luv ipa's) we could be looking at a style that suits our specific conditions in summer. 
Saisons are very poorly represented in oz in commercial beers, yet it's the only thing you would've been able to brew in Melbourne in the last 4 weeks if you don't have a ferm fridge. 
Doesn't an Aussie Saison make sense, or am I taking crazy pills??

On the topic of IPA, whatever Feral do with Hop Hog, that's what I'd focus on. I know it's modeled on an AIPA, but there's no point coming up with an Aussie style, then still preferring to drink something else - it's gotta be a beer we'd all love. Many people seem to be enamored with HH (or were). 
So I'd vote for that style: good strong hops flavour & aroma - not just fruit salad though, a bit more depth (eg: galaxy & POR late) -plus a decent malt backbone, and keep the bitterness to a *moderate* level - I hate how many AIPAs have ridiculous bittering that's out of balance. 
As a cultural reference, it should probably include some NZ hops also ;-)

My 2c


----------



## lukencode

I wouldnt mind trying something along the lines of a hopped up coopers vintage ale - kind of a brown IPA.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Bridges said:


> I know a brewer can call a beer what ever they want but this is apparently an Australian IPA. In my experience a damn nice beer too.


Hawthorn IPA is a great example of an Aussie IPA - I was very surprised when i tried it.


----------



## Sippa

I realize this is an old thread but I just wanted to add that all old beer styles came about because of the limiting factors of the region in which it was brewed whether it be climate or availability of ingredients, therefore to make a truly Australian style you would have to first develop a style using what is available to you uniquely from Australia. Once the style is established you could use what ever you wanted to replicate those nuances in the style.


----------



## Tahoose

IPA with an Aussie twist fermenting atm.

POR for 52 ibu's 
Vic secret, summer and galaxy for late additions.

Total 65 ibu
OG 1.057

Ale 
Wheat
Cane sugar 

Nottingham ale. Will get dry hopped aggressively.


----------



## paulyman

Old topic I know, but it's reappeared.

If I asked my friends to name a Pale Ale, they would all say "Coopers". (Love it, or hate it, I'm not a huge fan). If I think Coopers I think esters from the yeasties rather than hop flavour and aroma.

Call me mad, as I said I'm not a Coopers Pale fan, but couldn't you up the esters by under-pitching or some sort of mash rest kind of like upping the hops in an AIPA? Not sure I'd drink it, but all my friends might.


----------



## Captain Kimbo

Anyone remember what Alpha pale ale tasted like 10+ years ago? When that 1st came out man that was a beer, big and malty, super bitter....when I think of Australian IPA's that had to be up there. It's totally changed now though


----------



## droid

@cap'n - yep i remember it back then, it was bloody good

a simple "*+*" sign on the end of our Pale Ale meaning more abv and more hops? so its a Pale Ale Plus but with an indigenous <edit> (ingredient) AU twist


----------



## Spiesy

Captain Kimbo said:


> Anyone remember what Alpha pale ale tasted like 10+ years ago? When that 1st came out man that was a beer, big and malty, super bitter....when I think of Australian IPA's that had to be up there. It's totally changed now though


But it's a Pale Ale, not an IPA, isn't it?


----------



## Captain Kimbo

Yeah it is, but it's one of those beers that was on the boundary. Look at Punk IPA by brewdog, that sits at 5.6% which is fairly low for an IPA. I think from memory that Alpha used to be 5.5%. I only mentioned it because there was a time when Matilda Bay were really dominating the craft brew scene over here in perth and Alpha Pale Ale was unlike anything that was widely available


----------



## kevo

Interesting choice for a 'big' brewer. 

http://thefullpint.com/beer-news/stone-19th-anniversary-ipa-will-be/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Thefullpintcom+%28thefullpint.com+-+Beer+News%2C+Reviews+and+Event+Coverage%29


----------



## bconnery

Captain Kimbo said:


> Anyone remember what Alpha pale ale tasted like 10+ years ago? When that 1st came out man that was a beer, big and malty, super bitter....when I think of Australian IPA's that had to be up there. It's totally changed now though


Alpha was a pure American Pale ale all the way though. Nothing but lovely Cascade hops. It was a great beer, not really an Australian take on a style though.


----------



## pist

Australian ipa to me would be refreshing and easy to drink on a hot day, whilst still having a good smattering of hop flavour. A light Australian base malt maybe bb pale or pils with about 20% bb wheat. Lower in alcohol 4.5 - 5% Around 40 ibu and a good whack of galaxy and ella


----------



## Moog

I think you're getting a bit mixed up here..... If you want to name a beer style "NEW" it needs to differ from the existing styles by more than its origin.
American IPA'S are distinctly different from English IPA'S but it doesn't really have anything to do with WHERE they were brewed.
As far as i can tell, you are talking about an "ALL AUSTRALIAN IPA" not an "australian IPA" per se


----------



## Spohaw

Didn't read the whole thread but maybe it could be a smash with 20 % sugar and a lager yeast or us-05 fermented cold with the ibu's around 50 
One single hop addition at 40 mins


----------



## Bribie G

Necro, - ESB have the "style" in this year's comp.

I recently acquired a few free samples of HPA Aussie hops such as Mosaic and Ella, and already have POR and Galaxy, so thinking of running up an Aussie IPA as I can't think of any other styles to use them in and I prefer UK Bitters for my normal strength ales.

Looking at the ESB guidelines It's all about the hops and the malt needs to be there, but clean, so I've shied away from either Coopers bottled or my collection of Wyeasts that could introduce esters etc that could muddy the waters, but have packs of US-05 and S04.

Any thoughts on which one? I like the idea of SO4 being more flocculent.


----------



## DU99

WLP009 Australian Ale Yeast 

Seasonal Availability: Mar - Apr

Mosaic hops aren't they americian


----------



## Bribie G

I've use the 009, not as estery as the Coopers although it's supposed to be the same strain. Could be a goer.

OOps - Topaz shoulda gone to Specsavers :lol:


----------



## timmi9191

I'd forgotten about this thread, I still question the apparent need for Australian based ingredients to make it an Ozzie ipa. Ie I can brew an American iPa without a single American ingredient but it's still an American ipa. 

A coopers sparkling with 40-50 ibus would be my Ozzie ipa


----------



## kunfaced

Bribie G said:


> Looking at the ESB guidelines It's all about the hops and the malt needs to be there, but clean, so I've shied away from either Coopers bottled or my collection of Wyeasts that could introduce esters etc that could muddy the waters, but have packs of US-05 and S04.
> 
> Any thoughts on which one? I like the idea of SO4 being more flocculent.


Can I suggest wyeast 2565


----------



## Reman

I did an "Aussie" IPA with 92.5% ale malt, 7.5% Carared, with 70ibus of topaz and Galaxy, mostly in whirlpool. Dry hopped with 2g/l each of galaxy and topaz, using WLP009.

Turned out alright, biggest problem was that it was cloudy as all heck and hasn't settled even with being in the fridge for a week. 

Topaz notes say piney/resinous, but the flavours I got was a dankish passion fruit. So not sure if that hop combo is the best.

Having said that, it was nice, just not the best IPA I've had (it is the first I've made so maybe someone with more experience could turn it out better)


----------



## Bribie G

Yup I woke up to the Topaz, I was going to use it to dry hop but as the Hop Products Australia site itself suggests, it can be grassy and muddy unless used in a very high gravity beer. I used it as an in-boil addition but will only be using Galaxy and Ella in the dry hopping schedule.

BTW I stuck with my original plan and used S-04 as I had a packet but if it turns out ok I'll definitely try other yeasts, I reckon that even Wyeast Irish Ale might do the trick as it's a very clean fermenting yeast.


----------



## technobabble66

Hey Bribie, sounds great!
One thing though, and I'm pretty sure you'd be a truckload more aware/knowledgeable about this than me, but what about the impact the yeast has on hops both in flavour and bitterness? A comparison of a group-brewed Pliny the elder clone fermented with us05, 1056 (I know they're meant to be the same) & 1272 showed up huge differences between the 1272 & the other 2. Both in much stronger fruit flavours and stronger bitterness. 
I would've thought s04 might've reduced the hops flavours a little/lot. Though I have no experience with it myself, I'd admit.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I could throw in my next beer as in this style. Victoria Hops all the way. Local (Powels Malts) Damb they have a nutty individuality.
Coopers cultured yeast. What other true Australian yeast is there? I'll take their dry yeast no worries.
All in the balance range of say English IPA.
Edit: Or the full hog range of American IPA.
:chug:


----------



## Killer Brew

Takes an unrelated thread off topic to start a debate. We need a troll emoticon.


----------



## barls

good4whatAlesU said:


> I think newer brewers are more likely to be confused by calling a 'hoppy beer' an Ale.


mate it is an ale. thats the end of the discussion. you are just trolling now.
last warning on it.
thread cleaned from off topic crap. lets stick to aussie IPA shall we not what historically was an ale.


----------



## Vini2ton

Ales smails, let's talk about making an Australian IPA. Must be 6% and have POR.


----------



## TheWiggman

On the topic of yeasts, the 'beautiful truth' web site lists a number of different Australian beers with a "unique Australian ale yeast". It'd be interesting to know what these are or are closely related to.


----------



## Mattrox

Vini2ton said:


> Ales smails, let's talk about making an Australian IPA. Must be 6% and have POR.


I had been thinking about his for a long time:

23L 
2.6 kg BB pale ale
2.0 kg Vienna
1.5 kg Aurora 
0.6kg Redback
0.35kg Shepard's Delight

30g POR 60 mins

20g Vic Secret 10 mins
20g Ella 10 mins
20g Melba 10 mins

20g Galaxy 0 mins
15g Vic Secret 0 mins
15g Ella 0 mins

Dry - 25g Galaxy
25 g Ella
25 g Melba

Recultured Coopers Commercial yeast

Aussie Hops. We always Claim NZ stuff as our own so use Gladfield Malt. Aussie Pale malt. German grain (German heritage of SA).
Red colour because we are the Sunburnt country.

Gainbill ordered.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

TheWiggman said:


> On the topic of yeasts, the 'beautiful truth' web site lists a number of different Australian beers with a "unique Australian ale yeast". It'd be interesting to know what these are or are closely related to.



The people at Grain and Grape put up a linky to a really interesting paper on the history of yeast domestication. From what this says, Australian ale strains would have to be descendents of strains brought here from England in colonial times.

I know CUB used to have a culture collection which included strains from Australian breweries. It included at least the strain used to produce ales at the Kent Brewery, IIRC it was known as "O" strain ( O for old I think). *


* Factoid: CUB used to be very proud of the fact that their type culture collection was used to re-establish the strains for some European breweries after WW2. I believe Carlsberg was one which is a lovely bit of history given that Carlsberg was the site of the original brewing yeast identification.


----------



## good4whatAlesU

Definitely yes yeast brought out from the UK.

My 4th great grandfather was a captain in the East India Company (1799 - 1815). He came out to the colonies and started a brewery in 1844 and would have had a very good idea of what an Indian Pale Ale was. Although I'm not so sure the term "Australian Indian Pale Ale" would be the vernacular I would choose to apply. Possibly Australian Pale Ale, or Australian Hoppy Beer is more to the point but the style of a beer brewed with a pale malt and a lot of hops was familiar to military men and troopers serving in the colonies at the time.

Lets see how this post goes, my last was deleted with a warning point so I have added some context.


----------



## barls

good4whatAlesU said:


> Definitely yes yeast brought out from the UK.
> 
> My 4th great grandfather was a captain in the East India Company (1799 - 1815). He came out to the colonies and started a brewery in 1844 and would have had a very good idea of what an Indian Pale Ale was. Although I'm not so sure the term "Australian Indian Pale Ale" would be the vernacular I would choose to apply. Possibly Australian Pale Ale, or Australian Hoppy Beer is more to the point but the style of a beer brewed with a pale malt and a lot of hops was familiar to military men and troopers serving in the colonies at the time.
> 
> Lets see how this post goes, my last was deleted with a warning point so I have added some context.


mate it got removed because it had nothing to do with the discussion as per the rest of the posts i removed. we are not looking to rename the style just to suit what you think.
who cares that your who ever did what ever. we are discussing recipes for the style not history or what something should be called in relation to history.. so if your going to keep going let me know and ill just award the points and remove any further off topic posts by you..


keep it on topic to the discussion.


----------



## good4whatAlesU

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm not insulting anyone or using untoward language or being unruly.

The history of the yeast origin in this particular thread is in discussion and I amended the post with that inclusion.


----------



## barls

mate please 
read the rules of the forum
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules
take note of rule 15 which is what you have been doing. aka trolling and thread hijacking.
your entitled to your opinion but this is a thread on recipe discussion based on a style please keep it to that not what your personal opinion on a style should be called.
enough off topic back on topic
originally yeast possibly would of come from england but now have mutated to the conditions and we have our own strains that are used by those that still brew these styles.


----------



## good4whatAlesU

A style is based on history and history is would up in nomenclature. Discussion of the style name and it's associated ingredients are bound together in my opinion. Therefore warranting discussion.


----------



## barls

good4whatAlesU said:


> A style is based on history and history is would up in nomenclature. Discussion of the style name and it's associated ingredients are bound together in my opinion. Therefore warranting discussion.


if we were discussing the style the sure but this is a recipe discussion. so lets keep it to that and keep the history out of it and your personal opinions on what it should be called.


----------



## good4whatAlesU

Okay with me so long as you are consistent. Go back in the thread and give everyone who talked about history a warning.


----------



## barls

good4whatAlesU said:


> Okay with me so long as you are consistent. Go back in the thread and give everyone who talked about history a warning.


mate 
check yourself i never gave warning points to you but warned you were heading to get them if you continued to take it off topic again.
i tried to do this all by pm but you insisted on doing it out in the forum.
if you want to discuss how thing should be called start a thread in the right section don't derail this one with your personal thoughts.


----------



## Killer Brew

At least his argument has advanced from it not even being an ale ;-)


----------



## barls

yes but if he continues to argue he might find he has warning points.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

My next AuIPA will be in the likes of...

Fresh local malted grains. Theres something about fresh grain. Powels Malts in Vic I have picked up from the site in Braeside as soon as it is dry enough for packaging.

Leisurely mash day, maybe a decoction, batch sparges, each boiled. A generous pre boil volume for long boiling reduction. 
You Could lightly add some colouring malts if you wanted, or wheat blah...maybe.

Then the hops; a little of Victoria (home grown, not much) for long boil bittering to maybe one third the total IBU.

Then heavy in late boil and hop stands after flame out. Galaxy being the favourite for me.

Dry hop in keg too if you really want to hop right off.

Edit: forgot the yeast!
Coopers cultured from their bottles no doubt.
Unless I can be convinced of anything else I don't know that can be genuine AU.


----------



## Mattrox

I given the American West Coast style IPA is fairly well removed from the historical IPA, there should be no real quibble about what an "Aussie IPA" might look like. But I'm fairly certain this has been covered previously in the thread.

And certainly there is nothing wrong with experimentation. At worst it will be beer.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I just go by balance. Obviously displayed on software like beersmith, as what I use. Others just as good or better. Or old style working it out on paper if you want. You can choose any style balance that you have knowledge of. Then use whatever you have or can make in ingredients. This is the Aussie way of brewing all along its short history isn't it?


----------



## technobabble66

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> ...
> I know CUB used to have a culture collection which included strains from Australian breweries. It included at least the strain used to produce ales at the Kent Brewery, IIRC it was known as "O" strain ( O for old I think). *
> ...


Hey.
Whoa.
Back it up there a second, Cycles dude.

"... strainS from Australian brewerieS ..." 

So you're saying they have multiple strains from various Aussie breweries over the decades?
... And we currently have just a *single* strain of yeast representing all "Australian Ale" from the major yeast producers!?! Which we can all re-culture from a stubby of Coopers anyway!
Is it just me, or WTF?!? Am i the only one curious as to what those other strains might be?
Don't you wonder if there might be a few little gems amongst them?

I'm not normally a big fan of shit-canning the majors, but i'd sincerely hope they're/CUB not sitting on a bunch of awesome strains that they have zero intention of using, simply so no-one else can else them.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Yeah! Think of the homeland brewers them fools. Give us the Aussie yeasts!!

Given we get undercut by the whole world we have high quality products. Then. Who's going to fund such a thing as an Australian brewers yeast laboratory?...

I vouch as an Aussie home brewer I would pay more (3 times maybe) the usual price for an Authentic Aussie certified strain yeast. Then step it up in volume because I can. I just cant buy it. No market?
Its that or the effort to culture from Coopers bottles and that's just one strain. Though a very good strain I would vouch for.



Were are the Aussie Strains?


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## technobabble66

Powered by RIS also, Danscraftbeer? h34r: :lol:

EDIT: But i'd agree with what i think you're saying!


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## Danscraftbeer

RIS? sorry I'm never any good with abbreviations. I just spell it out for my own good as well as others when I post.
You know it could take me 5 minutes to guess as to your comment but I'd give up....  It was probably a good joke at the time too.


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## LAGERFRENZY

Russian Imperial Stout Dan - just getting in before Yob renounces you and has you burned as a witch.


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## Danscraftbeer

I still don't get it. Please don't burn me. Russian Imperial Stout was the only thing that came to my mind on that abbreviation but I still don't understand the relevance here. :unsure: Its late. Remember you lose an hour of sleep tonight muvafarkez.


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## technobabble66

No biggie, Dan. 
I was struggling to know exactly what you were trying to say, or rather it sounded a bit like a stream of consciousness (as I'd originally written, before checking), so I was wondering if you'd been sampling some RIS as well. [emoji1]


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## LAGERFRENZY

Techno did admit to being under that particular influence before he edited post #135 but it really is nothing for anyone to lose any sleep over irregardless of whether us bros are poking our mo's dude. Chill nigger.


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## Danscraftbeer

I've never tried a Russian Imperial Stout. Now I'm intrigued. I'll have to do one now..


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## LAGERFRENZY

We are way OT now but I would just advise that when you do one it will need to be aged, preferably in an ex spirit barrel and be mature to drink maybe next Christmas. Think of Stout but more like a port or a serious Liqueur, thick and slightly cloying, a bit of heat from being 11 - 13 percent ABV or more. Its a fair old bunger in a barrel of a drink.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

technobabble66 said:


> Hey.
> Whoa.
> Back it up there a second,
> 
> "... strainS from Australian brewerieS ..."
> 
> So you're saying they have multiple strains from various Aussie breweries over the decades?





Danscraftbeer said:


> Who's going to fund such a thing as an Australian brewers yeast laboratory?...


As stated, CUB used to fund such a thing and were very proud of it. I remember it being in the bunker at Bouverie St.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Toohey's had one as well and maybe some of the others.

It used not to be uncommon that big breweries did major research but it all got rationalised away when greed was good.

I'm pretty sure there's still a major yeast collection in Australia; the wine yeast collection at the AWRI. I once asked them if they had a Voile strain from the Jura (a pretty rare wine yeast) and they didn't. I don't think they have any brewing strains.


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## Mattrox

Here goes. 

Sunburnt Country IPA


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## mtb

Mattrox said:


> Here goes.
> 
> Sunburnt Country IPA


You got it in Beersmith? Care to share it to the cloud?


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## Mattrox

mtb said:


> You got it in Beersmith? Care to share it to the cloud?


I'm toying with late hop additions. So final recipe will be uploaded later today.

I have beersmith mobile.

How do I add dry hop additions so they are not flame out additions?


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## Mattrox

mtb said:


> You got it in Beersmith? Care to share it to the cloud?


Worked it all out. Uploaded to cloud.


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## Mattrox

Red enough to be called "Sunburnt"?


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## mtb

Aww yeah.


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## mtb

Mattrox said:


> Worked it all out. Uploaded to cloud.


Have you marked it as Shared? By default it's Private


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## mtb

Scratch that, sorted


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## Mattrox

I adjusted the recipe as brewed on Beersmith. Hop boil and dry hop additions should be correct now.


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## Mattrox

Haven't got Beersmith dialed in quite correctly. I'll have to check my settings.

Ended up with 24L 1.058 OG

Will be about 6.5% bottled. Not too bad.


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## Mattrox

The aroma is pretty good. Have not dry hopped yet. I'll do that tomorrow.

SG has hit 1.018 so a few more points to drop. Hydro sample tasted good. Should be a cracking beer.


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## rude

kunfaced said:


> Can I suggest wyeast 2565


What a great suggestion

I love 2565 :icon_drool2:

Plus these days there are more Aussie hops to choose from but that yeast is great nearly on its own


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## Mattrox

3 days in bottle. Went "fffffft" but very little carbonation and still a bit of hazy yeast suspension.

The hydro sample on bottling day was fully dark brown due to the yeast. Starting to look reddish in hue. Expecting good things colour-wise.

Hop combination is a winner. Delicious.


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## Mattrox

The picture makes it look more red than it really is.

Is has a red hue I must have made a mistake with mash/sparge volumes and concentated/diluted the red from the mash.


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## mtb

Looking at the recipe on BS now - did you enter the Measured Final Gravity or has it defaulted to 1.010? Estimated was 1.003 (very dry for an IPA)


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## Mattrox

mtb said:


> Looking at the recipe on BS now - did you enter the Measured Final Gravity or has it defaulted to 1.010? Estimated was 1.003 (very dry for an IPA)


It hit 1.014 with the Coopers yeast. I haven't dialed in the Coopers Commercial yeast in Beersmith properly. I slightly under pitched I think.

It is deffo red enough to call a red IPA but not the same hue as the mash. I'll put a few bottles in the back of the fridge for a week to drop all the yeast out and see if it makes a difference.

Nothing wrong with the flavour though.


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## Let's Brew Beer

fergthebrewer said:


> Aussie hops....
> here is a wiki list...
> Ella
> Feux-Coeur Francais
> Pride of Ringwood
> Rakau
> Sticklebract
> Summer
> Super Pride
> Topaz
> Vic Secret
> 
> Yeast..well i reckon coopers is a bit on the avg side..so i'd go us-05 ...clean
> And i'd hazard a guess we should be using Aussie malt...but i reckon Marris lol...and some wheat and of course good old joe white crystal
> Cheers
> Ferg


I Thought Rakau was a kiwi hop? :blink:


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## Grott

That post was 3 years ago, nothing wrong with that but probably realised by now.


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