# Ag Hoegaarden Recipe



## peterl1981 (11/6/12)

Hi guys,Just wanting to brew my first wit beer in my new brewery.. I'm wanting to brew a hoegaarden clone..
Even better if anyone had it on beer smith bsm.
Thanks in advance...CheersLynchy


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## thylacine (11/6/12)

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/11/02/belgi...te-beer-styles/


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## white.grant (11/6/12)

The trick with this (mashing the wheat aside) is the orange peel and coriander. Fresh, Indian coriander is best here and not too heavy handed with the peel. I also add a few grams of cammomile to mine.


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## brettprevans (11/6/12)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...e=%2Bhoegaarden

Im sure u can find a recipe u like the look of from here


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## angus_grant (11/6/12)

yeh, I made a copy and there is too much orange taste in the beer. Very strong citrusy acidic flavour. I can only really drink one or two at the most before the taste is too much. 7.2 % which is a bit below the proper percentage. I used 14g fresh orange zest so I would probably reduce this to 10g for my next batch.

I am thinking about tossing my first version. It is just going to take me too long to get through it, and I am only drinking it because I made it. Not really enjoying it. I also mistakenly used a lager yeast and next time I will be trying out the Wyeast 3463 forbidden fruit liquid yeast.

I used the recipe from Charlie Papazian's book "The Complete joy of home-brewing". I can type it in if you like. It is a higher gravity small boil recipe which is then diluted back down again in the fermentor.


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## punkin (11/6/12)

angus_grant said:


> yeh, I made a copy and there is too much orange taste in the beer. Very strong citrusy acidic flavour. I can only really drink one or two at the most before the taste is too much. 7.2 % which is a bit below the proper percentage. I used 14g fresh orange zest so I would probably reduce this to 10g for my next batch.
> 
> I am thinking about tossing my first version. It is just going to take me too long to get through it, and I am only drinking it because I made it. Not really enjoying it. I also mistakenly used a lager yeast and next time I will be trying out the Wyeast 3463 forbidden fruit liquid yeast.
> 
> I used the recipe from Charlie Papazian's book "The Complete joy of home-brewing". I can type it in if you like. It is a higher gravity small boil recipe which is then diluted back down again in the fermentor.




Dunno if you've bottled or kegged it, but have you thought about mixing at serving?

That's one of the great side effects of having multiple beers on tap at home, being able to mix off the tap.

I'll often punch a third of a strong hop beer into a weaker hopped one to get a milder flavour for my first couple of beers. I'll also often add a little lighter coulered and flavoured beer to a dark one for the same effect or vise versa.

Would still work if you've bottled, just pour one bottle of the orange beer in with one bottle of a lighter tasting beer

Would also get your abv down a bit.


Sounds terrible to think of tipping uninfected beer out.


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## brettprevans (11/6/12)

@ Angus. Just leave it for a whole fresh citrus fades in intensity with time. Try it in a month or 2 and see what u think. In 6 months I recon it will be minimal.


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## gap (11/6/12)

It is a mistake to think the citrus is only coming from the 
orange peel. Good quality, freshly crushed coriander will give off
a pungent citrus aroma.

Also the most authentic Hoegaarden taste comers from using the correct yeast.

Regards

Graeme


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## Nick JD (11/6/12)

The correct corriander seed is _essential_ for a Hoegaarden or you'll get celery flavours (like I did!). It absolutely MUST be freshly ground. You'll get a peppery, tangy, sharp anise lemongrass flavour from it - if you can't smell that, don't use it.

If you have a read of the BJCP guidlines on the style you'll see they make a note that celery or ham flavours are a no no - that's how easy it is to get them in there, and the way most people do this is by using inferiour (or too much) corriander. 

Also, I read somewhere once that the citrus peel can also be responsible for the ham flavours. My best Wits have been the ones without any spices/peels and the yeast is allowed to shine. 

Some of the Hoegaarden clones on the web use FAR too much stuff. Beware of them.

50:50 Wheatilsner and a noble hop to ~18 IBUs and WY3944 and you'll get very close. Mess up the spices and you'll get nana's hambone soup.


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## peterl1981 (11/6/12)

Nick JD said:


> The correct corriander seed is _essential_ for a Hoegaarden or you'll get celery flavours (like I did!). It absolutely MUST be freshly ground. You'll get a peppery, tangy, sharp anise lemongrass flavour from it - if you can't smell that, don't use it.
> 
> If you have a read of the BJCP guidlines on the style you'll see they make a note that celery or ham flavours are a no no - that's how easy it is to get them in there, and the way most people do this is by using inferiour (or too much) corriander.
> 
> ...



How about this one what do you think


*Ingredients**Amt**Name**Type**#**%/IBU*2.04 kgPale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM)Grain150.0 %2.04 kgPale Wheat (Dingemans) (1.6 SRM)Grain250.0 %30.00 gGoldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 minHop318.1 IBUs0.21 gCoriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)Spice4-0.21 gOrange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)Spice5-1.0 pkgBelgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) [35.49 ml]Yeast6-1.0 pkgBelgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124.21 ml]Yeast7-


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## Nick JD (11/6/12)

This is pretty close. The "rule" with spiced beers that aren't technically Spiced Beer is that you shouldn't be able to taste the spices, except in their absence. If you can pick corriander or orange distinctly, there's too much in there!

Here's my Hoey: it's very simple. 

Hoegaarden White
Witbier

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 17.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.000
Total Hops (g): 25.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (P): 13.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.40 %
Colour (SRM): 3.6 (EBC): 7.1
Bitterness (IBU): 16.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
2.000 kg Pilsner (50%)
2.000 kg Wheat Malt (50%)

Hop Bill
----------------
25.0 g Tettnanger Pellet (4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.5 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
10.0 g Coriander Seed @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
3.0 g Irish Moss @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
5.0 g Orange Peel @ 15 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20C with Wyeast 3944 - Belgian Witbier


Recipe Generated with BrewMate


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## angus_grant (11/6/12)

the recipe I had called for 35g coriander and 14g orange zest. I will reduce the orange to 10g and reduce the coriander to 25g and see how that comes out. I think I'll leave it in the keg for another month or so and see if the strength of the flavours reduce.

I think the coriander and orange caused over-flavours and the yeast I used is really not going to lend well to a Belgian Ale. I will wait a month and see how it tastes then. I can then try mixing it with something else.

Thanks for the tips guys.


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## seamad (11/6/12)

Im with nick on coriander use. Hoegarden is beer not cold carbonated coriander tea.
My best version to date for a 21 l batch was 7.5 g coriander at 5 and 10 g dried tangerine peel..
I use raw wheat with touch of oats and acid malt with pils.
Cheers
Sean


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## Jay Cee (11/6/12)

Hello, 

I'm presently drinking a hoegaarden clone that turned out great. I haven't done a side by side taste test to the original, but I think this is better thn the real deal. A simple recipe, but the inclusion of raw wheat is must. 



50% Pale Malt
32% Wheat Malt
17% Raw/Unmalted Wheat

1.9 g/L Saaz @ 60
0.7 g/L Saaz @ 20

15g Coriander seed (dry toasted, then ground) @ 20
15g orange Peel in cube

WLP400 Belgian Wit to ferment


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## Nick JD (11/6/12)

Jay Cee said:


> ... the inclusion of raw wheat is must.



I've never used raw wheat - what does it do?


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## Jay Cee (11/6/12)

It is believed that the original Celis White included a fair amount of raw wheat, which is typical in beers from the region. IME raw wheat adds a haziness above that of the unflocculated yeast. In the grist bill I also believe it adds more complex carbs than it's malted counterpart. 

The consideration does need to be made that a cereal mash is required prior to mash in, and raw wheat takes in a lot of water, so temp corrections at the maashtun need to be considered when you have a big pot of sticky porridge to dump in


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## Jay Cee (11/6/12)

More info here:



http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/34-...wing-with-wheat
* Raw Wheat *
Just as malted wheat is crucial to Germanys wheat beers, unmalted, raw wheat is essential to several Belgian styles. Raw wheat produces beers less sweet and full bodied than those made with malted wheat, making it an excellent choice for the more crisp and refreshing styles. At least one microbrewery has used raw wheat in its version of an American wheat beer. 

Up to 40 percent raw wheat is used in lambic beers, along with pale malt. The mashing processes vary from brewery to brewery and are wildly different from normal procedures. The wort is never as clear as most brewers would demand (rather it is turbid), and the wort composition is very different from standard worts. Lambic brewers formerly used wheat chaff to build a filter bed and enhance lautering. As hard as it is to imagine lambic brewers changing with the times, this practice has apparently faded away. 

Witbier, the Belgian version of white beer, is likewise made from unmalted wheat (50 percent) and malted barley (along with an occasional addition of oats). Witbiers can be brewed from step infusion or decoction mashes, but long protein rests (45 to 60 minutes) are necessary to allow any lautering at all. Care is taken so that some proteins remain to provide the defining golden haze. 

Raw wheat creates special problems in milling because the kernel is extraordinarily hard. For this reason soft wheats are definitely an advantage. A good roller mill is essential, and an adjustable mill may be necessary to ensure that the crush is correct. If the proportion of raw wheat is to be very high, its important not to pulverize all the wheat into powder but to achieve a good balance of grits and flour.


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## seamad (11/6/12)

I use 42% raw wheat. It is not as sweet as malted, giving the beer a crisper tart taste, has less body as well.
Lowers eff well too!


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## Nick JD (11/6/12)

seamad said:


> I use 42% raw wheat. It is not as sweet as malted, giving the beer a crisper tart taste, has less body as well.
> Lowers eff well too!



Can you use that much unmalted grain and still get reasonable efficiency?


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## Deebo (11/6/12)

I've made 4 wits now and have slowly upped the coriander and zest (but have yet to taste the latest one which I think had about 20g of zest/coriander). I have been using wb-06 at 17c so I don't know if you could call it a true wit.. but I have been very happy with the results. 

I think the amount of time you leave the coriander/zest in the boil will also effect the amount of flavour you are getting from it (I usually put in it at end of boil and leave in for 10 minutes then pull it out and give it a squeeze).
I have used lemon zest in place of orange as I didn't have any oranges for the last few, still seems to turn out really nice.

I also use 3 chamomile teabags cut open and poured into a hop sock for the brews 
(haven't tried without, so don't have a comparison but I really liked the first one so haven't been keen to change too much other than trying upping the amount of zest/coriander)

I was originally trying to emulate the Feral White I tried which had a really strong perfumey peppery citrus aroma (I think they must use a fair bit of coriander, or perhaps leave it in longer than me)

Have been using 50/50 export pils and wheat malt


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## seamad (11/6/12)

No nick, shithouse actually, around 13% less than normal but raw wheat is cheap.


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## Nick JD (11/6/12)

seamad said:


> No nick, shithouse actually, around 13% less than normal but raw wheat is cheap.



I was wondering - but then I spose you are trying to keep some flour in there. 

With rice, I have hit a wall at 30% using BB malts (not galaxy though).


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (11/6/12)

Actually Nick's comment has reminded me of a question - using actual flour - could one do so in place of raw wheat.

Ironically, SWMBO who now occasionally takes an interest in the chemistry side of brewing (though still whinges profusely about the smell of boiling malt & hops in the kitchen) and asked the question. I answered as best I could - it isn't malted, so I doubt it adds much in the way of fermentability.

But eventually I'll do a wit (rather than a belgian blonde) and have a crack with some flour.

Goomba


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## seamad (11/6/12)

I use either weyerman or dingemans pils which have a bit of surplus action.
Galaxy would probably improve the effeciency a bit too, have read that it can convert a nun.
I do a long mash, program the pid to ramp from 44 to 76 over 2 hours with 30 minute pauses at 62& 72 as well.


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## Nick JD (11/6/12)

I use wheat flour (cake, not bread) in a few of my belgians - only like 10% though. Converts fine - but you have to sieve it in to your grain and shake it up - put in by itself to the mash and it will dumpling unless you are mashing in below 50C - even then it's liable to ball.

EDIT: the Chimays have wheat starch in them - which is basically 100% wheat "cornflour" - at the supermarket. Pretty sure it'll turn straight into maltose, unlike flour that'll leave proteins and other stuff in the mash.


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## thylacine (11/6/12)

angus_grant said:


> the recipe I had called for 35g coriander and 14g orange zest. I will reduce the orange to 10g and reduce the coriander to 25g and see how that comes out. I think I'll leave it in the keg for another month or so and see if the strength of the flavours reduce.
> 
> I think the coriander and orange caused over-flavours and the yeast I used is really not going to lend well to a Belgian Ale. I will wait a month and see how it tastes then. I can then try mixing it with something else.
> 
> Thanks for the tips guys.




We like citrus notes in our wheat beers. Our standard 22L recipe includes the zests of two limes, two lemons and one Valencia orange. Zests are withheld until the krausen starts to fall.


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## Deebo (11/6/12)

thylacine said:


> We like citrus notes in our wheat beers. Our standard 22L recipe includes the zests of two limes, two lemons and one Valencia orange. Zests are withheld until the krausen starts to fall.



Do you boil the zests or soak them in alcohol to avoid infections? (Or is there enough alcohol in the beer to keep them at bay?) 
Also, how long do you leave them in the beer?


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## angus_grant (11/6/12)

thylacine said:


> We like citrus notes in our wheat beers. Our standard 22L recipe includes the zests of two limes, two lemons and one Valencia orange. Zests are withheld until the krausen starts to fall.



yep, I enjoy citrus flavours as well (I am now interested trying a version with lemon instead of orange zest) but the orange in my clone is over-powering. I'll try reducing the zest and coriander for the next batch. If that doesn't work, then perhaps dry-hopping will be the next thing to try.

cheers.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (11/6/12)

Nick JD said:


> I've never used raw wheat - what does it do?



It gives you the shits Nick. It's a mongrel to mill and your eff goes down the toilet. I mill mine twice and use a fair whack to compensate, however, without the raw wheat mine have been so-so. It definately adds to it visually and with that tartness - and I love a tart.
I agree with you less is more with the coriander and peel and as others have said a bit of rolled oats is good. I like the Wyeast 3944 witbier better than the forbidden fruit but that is a personal thing.
Cheers
BBB


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## darrenp (11/6/12)

Have to agree that raw wheat is a real pain to mill. My first and only atempt so far resulted in one burnt out drill and another that needed to be removed with an angle grinder after it slipped on the mill shaft and then the chuck locked tight and wouldn't loosen off. When the drill did catch it wrenched the whole mill over nearly breaking my arm spilling wheat all over the floor. Had to open the gap right up and run it through a few times closing it a little each time.

Other than all that raw wheat is pretty good I reckon.


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## Jay Cee (11/6/12)

Are you blokes doing a cereal mash prior to your brewdy mash? While my efficiency a a bit poor, it was onlu down four percentage points when being converted alongside Joe White pale, a malt that isn't known as havig exceptional diastatic activity. 

As mentioned, it is a bugger to crack, requires two run throughs. Next time I might source some flakes.


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## darrenp (11/6/12)

I found this site to be pretty handy http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/whogarden-...543/index2.html

I went with a tripple decoction and ended up with an efficiency of 61%. Had read somewhere to expect around 10% lower than normal which was about right. One thing I do remember was that the decoctions gelled up like crazy and where quite an effort to clean up as I do my decoctions in my boiler and have to clean it up before transferring from the mash tun.

The grain bill I went with was 50% raw wheat, 45% Pils and 5% flaked oats. Felt a bit strange doing my homebrewing shopping in the local health food shop but saved a 2.5 hour drive.


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## seamad (12/6/12)

Have thought about doing a cereal mash but last wit with the longer mash in previous post got me within 8 points of usual, too lazy to stuff around doing a seperate cereal mash as the beer was good without doing it.
I have an electric bike motor, ala qldkev on my mm2, and find cracking anything including raw wheat easy. Reckon it could make gravel.


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## thylacine (12/6/12)

Deebo said:


> Do you boil the zests or soak them in alcohol to avoid infections? (Or is there enough alcohol in the beer to keep them at bay?)
> Also, how long do you leave them in the beer?




The past dozen or so batches using zests, I hand wash the fruit under the tap. During washing a double-hand sized voille bag, small microwave 'bowl', tspn and grater are being boiled (bag, tspn, bowl & grater are only used for brewing). A spray bottle and a 'dipping' 2-litre bowl, each containing sanitizing fluid is used throughout. I spread some gladwrap, place bag on wrap, insert grater& spoon into bag and scrap zests (not pith) directly into bag. A small amount of boiled water is added to the bowl, zest bag inserted, bowl covered with gladwrap and microwaved for 30secs. The last half a dozen batches the zest bag has remained until fermenter cleaning. No problems...

Cheers...


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