# Time For A "welcome To Ahb" Forum.



## PistolPatch (9/9/10)

Five years ago, I remember several people putting a fair bit of thought and time into working out how to make AHB welcoming and informative to new brewers. A few FAQ threads were written (one active tonight) and this lead to the AHB Wikki (which is a topic that needs a whole other thread .)

I don't think anyone could criticise me in my desire to help out new brewers. I now seem to hardly have the time to even help new BIABrewer's properly so why am I bothering writing here tonight?...

What worries me is that when I have the time to browse AHB, I see a few brewers bending over backwards to help others whilst a few others (some with way too big post counts) plainly scoff at new brewers apparent "ignorance". According to them, they knew everything about brewing since birth and the rest of us should be laughed at. (These guys aren't even great brewers.)

I've been brewing on and off for over twenty five years now and there are heaps of questions I can't answer on brewing and never will be able to. It took me over twenty unnecessary years just to find a brewing method that actually gave me great beer!

So, where should a new brewer start?

If you click on the AHB home page? there is nothing to welcome or direct the new brewer. It is _*bloody*_ hard for them. The smart arses tell them to search etc. You try it! It often takes me hours to find a thread I have written to!

Isn't it time that when you clicked on the AHB logo or home page that the first thing you see at the top is a, "Welcome to New Members," forum? And, within that forum, which should be the most highly moderated one, the new member can easily find FAQ's., Wikki links etc.? (I seriously can never even find the forum that contains the FAQs that I spent hours to help write!)

I think this forum should be the most highly moderated as new brewers need the best and most dedicated information. They certainly don't need brewers who are "above" them making posts of _*no*_ value or simply frivolous.

I have learned some amazing things from new brewers I have helped or met. Many of them have quickly developed skills I will _*never*_ have such as in recipe formulation. New brewers are a gold mine of information, skills, challenges and, more importantly, friendship.

I think it's about time we (if I am allowed to say that) at AHB gave them a welcome mat.

Until we do, I'm seriously not at home here.

 and <_<. 
Pat

P.S. No edits so I can't even correct my topic title capitalisation - I hate that!!!


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## Steve (9/9/10)

Something like that is a good idea but It'll never happen Pat. You summed up a lot of posts in the "How would you change AHB". How long has that thread being run without anything happening or at least its existence being acknowledged? Seem to recall Dane mentioning a few months ago that there'll be some changes tp AHB? Who would moderate the new forum? Only appears to be AndrewQLD regularly moderating these days. The best and most dedicated information posters you mention (who I learnt from) dont post here anymore, they're off to bigger and better things usually all beer related (half their luck). How would you know that the people answering questions in the beginners forum are giving the best information?
Cheers
Steve


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## bradsbrew (9/9/10)

Good idea Pat, you will get the people who are going to say but there is already this forum and that forum and they should use them. But some/most new members will not know how to use them. I would like to see included in this forum or a wiki of how to efficiently and successfully perform a search........... I constantly see the do a search or a quick search found me this......but not very often see the pathway that the searcher used. I for one i am crap at performing searches. So a how to search would be of great benefit.

Cheers


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## Benniee (9/9/10)

I agree with the general trend in posts on AHB that Pat is talking about - but I'm not sure that a "welcome" forum or thread is really going to solve that.

If you look at some of the other brewing forums there doesn't seem to be as many of the unhelpful posts as we are currently generating here, and when they do appear the other posters seem to ignore them. I do enjoy some of the banter between posters but I believe it should be in the relevant forums, not in a thread where a new brewing is asking for help. Take homebrewtalk for example, and even the brewing network forums have a fair bit of banter and joking - but from what I've read it doesn't often resort to that on a thread where someone is asking for help/advice.

I also don't believe that posting a "do a search" reply adds anything. It usually stands out when a poster with a low post count asks a question that they probably aren't proficient with all the sites features.

At the risk of being a little bit cynical - as long as AHB is generating traffic will the site operator really think there is a problem? Perhaps it will take a substantial reduction in active members before any changes occur. And having said that I'm not really sure what changes could be made as it seems to be a culture amongst the members rather than anything to do with the structure of the site. Possibly a friendly reminder at the top of the page to try and post helpful posts - something like what appears in the bulk buy forum now.

I am saddened by the number of good brewers that I know who openly state that they rarely read/post on AHB anymore.

Benniee


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## Screwtop (9/9/10)

PistolPatch said:


> Five years ago, I remember several people putting a fair bit of thought and time into working out how to make AHB welcoming and informative to new brewers. A few FAQ threads were written (one active tonight) and this lead to the AHB Wikki (which is a topic that needs a whole other thread .)
> 
> I don't think anyone could criticise me in my desire to help out new brewers. ................................................................................
> ................................................................................
> ...



Look out the sky is falling .........................again :lol: :lol:

Apologies for replying to a frivilous thread with a frivilous post 

Screwy


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## kevin_smevin (9/9/10)

I dont think its a bad idea. I recently recommended AHB to a fellow brewer. They took my advice and signed up but the next time i saw them they told me how hard it was to find any info, and that they had next to no luck using the search function. Worst of all, they were shot down with very negative comments upon their first post and i doubt they will be back. There can be alot of anger and negativity on this site sometimes, which is a real shame if that's your first impression because you could stand to learn alot here.


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## DU99 (9/9/10)

If mods dont want to do whats required of them,they should moved along..


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## Bribie G (9/9/10)

AHB forum seems to be like other forums (non beer) I have been on, where trolling / argumentative posters seem to happen in waves then quieten down again. One reason I hardly ever post on DTV forum (digital TV etc) is that there was a severe outbreak of trolling and cat fights about 2 years ago, and even had a couple of members posting that I should Piss off back to the UK etc. but whenever I pop onto DTV nowadays it's very very tame - "what colour leads should I get for my Playstation and my airlock isn't bubbling". Actually AHB is a lot more user friendly than this time last year in the kitten strangling days - hope it stays that way. 
However I do agree that you should only post helpful replies in the noob sections. It's only two and a bit years since I picked up my first tin of Coopers Stout and most of what I've learned about brewing I have learned here and at BABBs - I've poked my nose into Palmer's How to Brew a couple of times but very infrequently.


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## staggalee (9/9/10)

​


DU99 said:


> If mods dont want to do whats required of them,they should moved along..



They mustn`t have seen that yet :lol: 

stagga.


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## pk.sax (9/9/10)

I think even arguments in beginner forums help ppl as long as there aren't too many egos attached. I have a bit of a feeling that when questions are asked even some of the more experienced members don't immediately respond because of the somewhat impolite criticism that will follow. It is a little discouraging.

Only thing I can think of (from running a game forum in the past) is that unnecessarily offensive posts be moderated out. Banter is good, aggressive bashing is definitely not welcome.

Anyway, this is what a relatively very new member (and brewer) thinks, i.e. me.
On the + side, I have improved over 3 brews more than I could otherwise imagine thanks to the information here.


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## [email protected] (9/9/10)

Maybe a quick one liner at the top of the page to point new brewers to the search button. It works a treat... <_< 

Booz


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## barls (9/9/10)

DU99 said:


> If mods dont want to do whats required of them,they should moved along..


in defence of the mods, as a mod on another forum, sometimes the mods dont have the power to do what we ask of them as it requires a major change from the admins or the owner of the forum to get what is requested done.
also the mods are unpaid in most places and are only doing what is required to keep the forum running smoothly and out of trouble.


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## jayse (9/9/10)

If I may, allow me to debate possibly another side of the arguement, any personal opinions aside maybe.

You talk of continually making it easier and easier for new brewers, where does it stop? when you just post hey mate don't worry about it I'll just come around and brew your beer for you.
I can't see how any brewer cannot find the info they are after wether it be internet, books, brewshops or coming down the bar and having a beer with you if they really want.
You want to make it so easy why? how about incouraging the brewers to learn rather then be told? if someone can't find the info they are after it would say to me they are too lazy and are not that interested in actually learning.
These brewers need to learn not just be told what to do and part of that learning is researching, if you take that researching part away and just tell them what to do then what?

I don't mean to sound negative or offend just pointing out there maybe is another side to this debate.

I think incouraging to research and learn properly is much better, sure some might not be too interested and just use forums to get simple questions answered, but where does it end? 

That sort of approach works if you are a sub handy man and think hey I don't know much about, lets say cars, and don't really need to know but I think I can fix this or that if I can get someone to answer this simple question. I do that all the time, I am sure people do that all the time with many things.
So is it for these type of people you intend this to be for?

Again not trying to stir shit, nothing personal just opening up a debate.


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## bradsbrew (9/9/10)

jayse said:


> If I may, allow me to debate possibly another side of the arguement, any personal opinions aside maybe.
> 
> You talk of continually making it easier and easier for new brewers, where does it stop? when you just post hey mate don't worry about it I'll just come around and brew your beer for you.
> I can't see how any brewer cannot find the info they are after wether it be internet, books, brewshops or coming down the bar and having a beer with you if they really want.
> ...




I agree 100% with this Jayse. I would just like to see some more info on how to use the search function better.


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## yardy (9/9/10)

PistolPatch said:


> *New brewers are a gold mine of information, skills* (snip........



well if they're such a plethora of info, skills etc, why do they ask such stupid bloody questions ?



only joking Pat, I'm with Jayse on this one :icon_cheers: 

Dave


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## bconnery (9/9/10)

jayse said:


> If I may, allow me to debate possibly another side of the arguement, any personal opinions aside maybe.
> 
> You talk of continually making it easier and easier for new brewers, where does it stop? when you just post hey mate don't worry about it I'll just come around and brew your beer for you.
> I can't see how any brewer cannot find the info they are after wether it be internet, books, brewshops or coming down the bar and having a beer with you if they really want.
> ...


I agree with this. 
I moved from kits to kits and bits to extract before I ever found AHB. 
I did so by reading information out there and by making beer. 

Just being given the answers doesn't make you learn. 

I agree with what many have stated in that the manner to which some are replying could be improved but I also do feel that many new posters could take a little more effort to find out the information. 

As for Pat's original post, isn't this a start? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...?showtopic=9233
It's airlocked in the Kits forum, where I assume it is assumed many newbie posters will visit. 
Why have a separate forum when this is kind of the default new member forum? 

If you are a new member but doing another method of brewing then you must have at least enough expertise (and I don't mean extract or AG brewers are more expert, but they must have come to some knowledge of their chosen style of brewing) to read posts in those forums and understand the answers. 

To ask for this new forum to be heavily moderated also places additional demand on people who already volunteer their time to do a job for which no-one really thanks them, even if we may or may not agree with the manner in which they are doing it...


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## AndrewQLD (9/9/10)

And to add to Jayse's comments, why is there now a need to "make things easier" for new brewers/members? Is it because the site format has changed and it's harder to use than it has been since it's inception? Or is it because some members can't be arsed to reply to new brewers basic questions with intelligent answers but are quite prepared to reply with meaningless rhetoric and smart arsed comments.
If it's the former then yes something should be done, but I don't think it is.
If it's the latter then no improvements or changes to the site as suggested in some of the earlier posts will make any difference as these rubbish poster will still throw in their two cents worth regardless.

If people don't want to help someone they shouldn't comment in a thread at all, but it seems a mentality of post as much as you can regardless of the quality of content seems to have crept in. Mind you it seems to have settled down a little in the last six months or so.

Why not, if you want to suggest searching in a thread at least include a link or two yourself to show it can be done and to also be helpful to boot.

Like Jayse I'm not having a go but while it's easy to blame the site or blame Admin or Mods we're all here as members of a forum that is based on mutual sharing and help.

Andrew


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## Silo Ted (9/9/10)

In my short time here I can already recognise the consistently rude and negative members. Fortunately theres only a handful of regular and consistent bitter lemons. If nothing of value can be said to a new brewer, then why do people feel the need to comment at all ? Your post count isnt that important. It wont kill you to just move onto another thread, and let your bullshit out on another post if you want to start bailting or having some fun. Leave the newbie questions and answers to those who wish to help, and dont get so cranky withy the simple questions. No need for a speacial subforum or welcoming commitee, just for the dickheads and biaters to put a sock in it at these times.


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## MeLoveBeer (9/9/10)

Biggest problem I can see is the default forum search function... everything else seems fine (as in forum structure etc). Most new users can't use the default search engine effectively (the fact that it can't deal with natural language searches is a PITA) and don't know to use the alternate google option (for a noob not familiar with google search, it seems like the google search would be a search of the entire internet, not just these forums).

I would think that changing the google search to be the default would make it infinitely easier for new forum users to find the information they need and relieve a fair bit of tension around here.


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## Silo Ted (9/9/10)

> I would think that changing the google search to be the default would make it infinitely easier for new forum users to find the information they need and relieve a fair bit of tension around here.



You assume that everyone hates helping out with the basic questions. That doesnt seem to be the case at all, theres plenty of understanding members who are fine with ansewering new brewer queries without feeling any tension. Pure and simply, the impatient members just need to skip the threads they dont like, for whatever reason. Noones compelling them to respond. Better sometimes iof they dont. 

Its not that hrd a solution were discussing here.


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## MeLoveBeer (9/9/10)

Silo Ted said:


> You assume that everyone hates helping out with the basic questions. That doesnt seem to be the case at all, theres plenty of understanding members who are fine with ansewering new brewer queries without feeling any tension. Pure and simply, the impatient members just need to skip the threads they dont like, for whatever reason. Noones compelling them to respond. Better sometimes iof they dont.
> 
> Its not that hrd a solution were discussing here.



Agreed, and I for one relish the opportunity to reinforce my own knowledge by helping newer brewers. What I'm talking about is empowering newer users to be able to source the information themselves if they desire. I think that the search engine is a fundamental flaw in the site and could be massively improved with very little effort.


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## MaltyHops (9/9/10)

MeLoveBeer said:


> Agreed, and I for one relish the opportunity to reinforce my own knowledge by helping newer brewers. What I'm talking about is empowering newer users to be able to source the information themselves if they desire. I think that the search engine is a fundamental flaw in the site and could be massively improved with very little effort.


I have raised the idea of creating an index of previously asked newbie questions
- sensibly categorised into the major brewing stages - as per sample below.

In just a month there have been heaps of newbie questions asked that are
similar to ones already asked before but different enough to warrant asking
again and there have been a lot of really good answers. It seems a shame
to not make use of the good answers more readily. It is great that some
members are able to give great help to newbies but sooner or later this may
get a bit tiring.

Ideally, new users ought to know/learn how to make use of existing search
functions but they are likely to have urgent questions and may not know what
brewing terms/words to search for so take the easy way to post another
question.

The newbie questions index could be created as a set of editable articles (like
the Acronyms list article) that would grow over time. I think the index would
not be duplicating existing facilities - it would be an addition that might be of
help.

...
YEAST
...
FERMENTING

Fermentation Complete?
_... activity stopped with high SG_
Fermenting In Fridge, no fidgemate ??
_... effects on yeast/taste - notable replies: (1)_
10 Days In... Developing A Cidery Taste (twang)
_... adding hops/stocking changed taste - notable replies: (1)_
BOTTLING
...


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## ~MikE (9/9/10)

i think getting rid of post counts and the barrel heirachy BS would stop a lot of trolling and send people with no life over to farmville.


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## DU99 (9/9/10)

Barls..i am a senior mod on another site also..if staff dont perform there removed or asked to stepdown"OFF TOPIC"..
search engines can be fine,but it depends on how its been programed to work


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## felten (9/9/10)

MaltyHops said:


> I have raised the idea of creating an index of previously asked newbie questions
> - sensibly categorised into the major brewing stages - as per sample below.



something like this maybe? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...hp?autocom=ineo


When I started out on this forum I lurked for a few months, just read all the articles, explored all the sites options and read all the threads in the kit & extract forum and beginners ag/partial forum. The learning curve going from knowing nothing about brewing, to even learning the basics is very steep and I would advise newcomers to do all the relevant research before starting out and asking questions that are probably stacked up 10 fold in the search database.


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## zarth (9/9/10)

MaltyHops said:


> I have raised the idea of creating an index of previously asked newbie questions
> - sensibly categorised into the major brewing stages - as per sample below.
> 
> In just a month there have been heaps of newbie questions asked that are
> ...



This in my opinion would be really helpful, I lurked for ages reading and researching found heaps of great stuff but sometimes found it hard to track down a second time newbie FAQ along the lines of above sounds great. It took me a while to post anything cause I did'nt want to waste peoples time or look an idiot because its bound to be on the site somewhere.And now I just like to confirm my assumptions. Having said that 99% of replies to me have been most helpful and friendly..


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## Lecterfan (9/9/10)

As an eager new poster who did the full rollercoaster on my first drunken night of posting (a mistake): feeling humbled, outraged and then ultimately really embarrassed all in the course of one thread - I think there are probably a few things to be considered from both sides of the coin.

I search a lot more effectively now than I did when I started, basically because as a lurker I used Google, but as a member it pays off to search individual forums rather than using the generic search function in the top right hand corner...sometimes this is suggested to people with a happy vibe, other times with great impatience (or - rarely - with aggressive exacerbation).

I also had a really respectful and encouraging PM from a senior member which heartened me because I was pulled up for absolutely giving incorrect info, which I then apologised for and admitted my ignorance (which was a mathematical mistake,not at all malicious or intended to bignote myself).

What all the experts and long time posters tend to forget is this:

A lot of us "newbs" don't post on other forums and aren't the most savy in interpreting the tone of internet commuinications. We are like impatient terrier pups barking just to hear the sound of our own voices. Often I post out of an eagerness to help or interact with other brewers who have been/are going through similar crises to me or my experience..sometimes (often?) I get it wrong, but that doesn't make me a villain or an idiot, just someone trying to respond to a question in the same medium that it was posed.

My original philosophical post was meant to illustrate that for someone like me, all I care about is the best tasting beer I can make given my personal time, budget and level of dedication. The _process, equipment etc_ is all super important, but at the end of the day some guys like to brew because of how involved they can become in the process (the brewing is an end in itself), other people are happy with a good honest beer that is better than megaswill (the brewing is a means).

So whether changes need to be made? Who knows?...as opponents to the OP have stated, maybe a baptism of fire (so to speak) is encouraging a spirit of independance (it certainly did with me to some degree), but is this the best way? Who knows?

All I know from now on is if I want to offer advice then keep it based on practical experience and not theory, and if I want to talk sh*t then I do it in "the pub" rather than in the hallowed halls of the AG black belts haha.

Anyway a good, controversial little topic nonetheless.


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## fritz and sauce (9/9/10)

I'm a newbie here and don't mind doing my own searching for info. but have considered this the site the most difficult and frustrating to search. The basic search engine does nothing. Advanced search and choosing '' the common ground" was a major improvement.
Reading instructions is a task most people try to bypass and no matter what advice or opinion anybody has on this, it's just how it is. All search engines and more importantly instructions, must be compiled for the complete dickhead.
I posted for the first time yesterday and received helpful assistance which was appreciated. This is a great site with an average search engine. Instructions on how to use the search engine on a very large complex web site is understandable, but this site should be more newbie friendly. Many times I have thrown the hands in the air and gone somewhere else muttering expletives. I eventually come back and tackle the bastard of a search engine. I might even give the instructions a quick glance one day.


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## beerdrinkingbob (9/9/10)

~MikE said:


> i think getting rid of post counts and the barrel heirachy BS would stop a lot of trolling and send people with no life over to farmville.



Mike I think your right and gave me a good laugh... :super: 

As for the forum, yes things can get a little heated but on the whole people are great and only too happy to help, that's my very brief experience anyway :beer:


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## pk.sax (9/9/10)

Ive found using the google search provided to be quite helpful. It basically searches AHB for the query but using google's searh engine. The 'other' search is hopeless.


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## Stuster (9/9/10)

practicalfool said:


> Ive found using the google search provided to be quite helpful. It basically searches AHB for the query but using google's searh engine. The 'other' search is hopeless.



The search I find more useful in some ways than using a google search, but I know most agree with you and find it a pain to use. 

You do need to use 'More search options' for it to be useful though. So which functions on there are useful?

1. You can choose the forum you want to look in which cuts it down to the kind of brewing you want to do and/or restricts it to Pub questions or cuts that out.

2. You can choose to only search the topic title. That way you can find topics which are on the terms you are looking for. So for example you are looking for information about golden ales. You'll find that the term golden has been used many, many times and so it's hard to find a useful thread. Using this means that you find threads specifically on golden ales.

3. You can choose to find information by a particular poster. Mainly useful if you want to follow a specific person's advice. It's also useful if you sort of remember a particular post by somebody and want to find that post (including your own posts, which it is possible to forget. :icon_drunk: ).

Anyway, that's how I've used it in the past. Tend not to look for info as much as I once did of course. I found the site a bit intimidating at first and spent a fair bit of time lurking and reading. There's a whole heap of good info in there. Posting for info and getting real live responses is fun as well. I think that giving too much info to new brewers might mean there's no need for people to ask questions which would be a bit of a shame. On the other hand, there are only so many times you can answer basic questions without losing the will to live.


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## Daniel.lear (9/9/10)

Hmmm,

Initially I was agreeing with Pat on this one, However Jayse has a couple of very valid points. Personaly I am a fan of people learning for themselves, with a gentle push in the right direction at times. This could be achieved by something along the lines of what Pat said, but a forum within a forum may be to much, we already have the kit's and bit's, partials, and AG sections.

Perhaps a compulsory reading section before being able to post?? :huh: 

I also second what Jayse said about post counts. It _can_ be a useful tool to judge someones experience, but there a few that seem to have huge post counts that know [email protected]#%-all. I don't really know what to do on this one.

Cheers,

Leary


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## dcx3 (9/9/10)

Im with Jayse, i lurked here for ages reading the stickys and alot of posts. I found out who the most helpful posters where etc.
Ive found the troll habitat in ahb to be minimal compared with other internet sites i also think it goes against the general spirit of HB


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## Florian (9/9/10)

I think one reason why there are so may threads about the same question is simply because a lot of n00bs think they're the first ones to encounter the problem they're having. And I don't mean that in a bad way at all. When I started out in brewing I had absolutely no idea how many people were involved in it in Australia. I had started one new thread right at the beginning and then quickly realised that there are hundreds of people who had asked the same question before. The same applies to almost anything on the net, there is hardly a question that hasn't been asked somewhere before. From then on I searched as much as I could and tried to only start new threads whenever my situation was different to the ones I could find.

I have seen a great way to tackle this in another forum I used frequently in the past. In this forum, whenever you start a new threat and type in the title, it gives you matches with similar titles. You are then politely asked to check these threads first before posting your question. 9 out of 10 times you would find your answer in one of the suggested threads. So it is kind of an automatic search for people who don't search, they still get the search results presented without asking for them. This little tool would definitely keep the number of 'double threads' significantly down.


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## BjornJ (9/9/10)

This is a great forum,
as so many others I have learned a lot here going from kits to partials to AG, experimenting with new hops, crash chilling, and all the other little things we keep adding to make a "simple" process more and more complex :lol: . 


I've gotten lots of good feedback on things I didn't understand when reading about it, or more details around why something is done a particular way. 

Some of it from other amateurs like myself and some from the "pros" like Butters, Stuster, MHB, ThirstyBoy and many others.
I have many times been genuinly impressed by the amount of time someone spend on here trying to help me understand something, going to lengths to find articles to link to, or explain in less technical terms some of the very technical issues involved in putting grains in hot water.



At the same time there seems to be a group of people on here that thinks

A beginner should not ask a question if it has been answered before.
It's sad to want to brew "megaswill".
It's ok to abuse anyone guilty of 1. or 2.
I'm not trying to start an argument if this is true or not, or if it is fair to agree with the above points.
Only stating what I have observed. 


I believe the AHB forum could be a better place for new and experienced brewers alike if we could find a way to agree to:

Only post if you are trying to add something positive, as in advice or even just happy banter for that matter. Let's try to keep the sad, little flaming wars out of it.. 

Someone adding a comment "yes, I have the same problem" is not really helping the person asking a question resolve anything, but there is certainly nothing mean in doing so.

I can understand Stu saying there is only so many times you can answer the really basic questions and keep a will to live  . 
Working in IT I have first-hand experience with this concept, like everyone else who has talked a user through doing a really simple task over the phone for the 50th time, hehe.


But it would make things a lot less hostile if those not wanting to bother with these posts/questions simply moved on to another thread rather than tell someone off for 1. or 2. above.


This is turning into a PistolPatch-long post (another great helper of others), my apologies for those still with me! Those who are still reading probably also know that the reason forums use smilies or "emotiocons"
is to enable posters to make sure others realise something is said in a light-hearted way not meant to upset. There is no coincidence when grown men use "skittles" as I saw them called the other day, we are not trying to look like teenage posters but trying to make sure the tone carries over, something that can be hard in writing..


My 2c:

We definetly could have a section that said "read this before you post" and it would be a link to How to Brew by Palmer plus a list of other short articles like suggested by others on here.

But we would then remove the need for thousands (?) of posts from people asking things like 



why is my airlock not bubbling?
How do I make it taste like Carlton Draught, VB, etc?
Why is there crap at the bottom of my bottles?
Who is that bearded guy at the ISB meetings filling everyone with braggot?
And unlike an online encyclopedia, we do not want to stop repeating the same piece of information, we want it to be asked again and again and again by scores of new brewers sliding down the same slippery slope we have gone before..
_Why this and that... how do I improve... what happens if... but that doesn't rhyme with this thing I read that said... but the guy at the LHBS said..._ 
because then there will be so many more of us to meet at case swaps, camping weekends at Lake Canjola, brew club meetups at the northern beaches (thanks guys for last Saturday), at Barls' playing with his dog, etc.

Let's embrace the "My airlock is not bubbling" crowd as new guys/girls just starting out with something that can turn into a great hobby with waaaay to much stuff to learn to ever get bored with.

And let's try to be nice to eachother in the process, even when someone doesn't agree :lol: 
(I am sure you noticed the "clever" use of an emoticon there).



Hehehe, that turned out way too long but guess that's another advantage of a forum, eh?
I can type for as long as I want, and you can choose to reply or ignore it..


thanks
Bjorn


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## rotten (9/9/10)

Didn't everyone using this forum have their FIRST POST!

What has post count or barrels got to do with anything. I always thought respect was earnt, not expected due to so-called expertise.

It is a forum to discuss home brew, not a forum to berrate others for what they may or may not know.


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## Stuster (10/9/10)

BjornJ said:


> why is my airlock not bubbling?
> How do I make it taste like Carlton Draught, VB, etc?
> Why is there crap at the bottom of my bottles?
> Who is that bearded guy at the ISB meetings filling everyone with braggot?



:lol:

Love it.


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## Fatgodzilla (10/9/10)

AHB is a great beer forum. I used to go to Homebrewtalk in the USA AND Jim's Brewing in the UK for specific info on their local brews and a touch of xenophobic shit stirring when pissed. But I rarely do now. I get better knowledge here and from other non forum sources. I enjoy AHB's close knit community, it's a better source of information and a bit of comic relief in my working hours. I for one support a Noobie forum if done properly. If something along the lines of Bjorn et al. threads could eventuate, all to the good. New members will drift in and move out as their knowledge increases and those of you who like to help noobies and offer advice (not necessarily the same) can do so. 

The rest of us who use the forum for more specific and interesting purposes such as community drinking sessions, football tipping competitions, goat sacrifices and cling wrap can then concentrate our energies where we best feel our interests lie.


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## barneyb (10/9/10)

Yeah there is a bit of an issue with some older posters who think they are god's gift to homebrewing on the internet. 

I'm pretty sure these legends of the internet would only be happy if all the main brewing forums were locked so you could only post new recipes and organise doomed-to-fail bulk buys. 

I recommended this site to 2 new brewers who had lots of new brewer questions. Both were shot down by these forum superstars with snarky comments because their questions had been answered sometime since this site's inception. The problem was that for these particular problems they didn't know the right brewing terms to search effectively. They quickly lost interest and now call me with their questions instead.

I was thinking of starting a "Questions not worth their own thread" thread so new brewers, or even more experienced brewers, could ask questions that may not warrant much discussion. Help my ferment is stuck at 1018, what hops for X type of beer etc. This way the holy ones wouldn't have to dirty their eyes with the questions the rest of us commoners may ask. The problem is there is no way to guarantee that new posters would post their questions in that thread, I notice often extract/kit questions are asked in the AG and Beginners AG forum a lot.


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## pk.sax (10/9/10)

Ahahahaha gave me a good laff Bjorn.

Just remember, this forum is 'the internet'. And with anything Internet, advice is usual taken with a grain of salt. So, even when someone searches the forum for old questions, they are encountering information by people they have never heard about. In comparison, when you answer their problem in their own thread it does give them the satisfaction that someone read THEIR particular problem and responded. Even if all you did was link them to an earlier post/article. Its basic human tendency to do so, can't see how that is going to change. Same with the pedantic trolls, but then, you don't HAVE TO let trolls upset you and drive you off the rails. There is the concept of 'joking it away' and if all else fails, the forum has an ignore function (I noticed). Put the offender on your ignore list and they would disappear from YOUR AHB experience.

Now, as a very nice forum poster who helped me says in his siggy, toddle off and check your airlock will you 

PS: Some trolls can be helpful too. Bumping your thread etc... They even eventually give advice after having their fill of trolling.


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## Siborg (10/9/10)

AndrewQLD said:


> If people don't want to help someone they shouldn't comment in a thread at all...
> 
> ...Why not, if you want to suggest searching in a thread at least include a link or two yourself to show it can be done and to also be helpful to boot.


It really shits me when I see people simply post "use the search". A decent poster will say that a search provided these links etc.

It gives off such a negatvie and unwelcoming impression. And the search is pretty hopeless. I've had some troubles in the past trying to locate some of my own threads. Nonetheless it can be done and simply providing a link or two goes a long way.

I don't think it should be too much about making information easier to find (although any improvements would be welcome), but rather making the site more welcoming to new members. Unfortunately not much can be done on the level of forum posters, I think a welcome page would be a good start.


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## bkmad (10/9/10)

What about making new users read a FAQ as part of the registration process. It wouldn't have to be long, just a few of the really commonly asked questions and perhaps a checkbox next to each so that new users have to at least say that they've read it.

I know this could be seen as a turn off for encouraging new forum members, but if someone can't be bothered to read a basic FAQ, perhaps they aren't that interested in learning anyway.


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## staggalee (10/9/10)

barneyb said:


> Yeah there is a bit of an issue with some older posters who think they are god's gift to homebrewing on the internet.
> 
> I'm pretty sure these legends of the internet would only be happy if all the main brewing forums were locked so you could only post new recipes and organise doomed-to-fail bulk buys.
> 
> ...



Geeze, "gods gift to homebrewing", "legends of the internet". "forum superstars", "holy ones"........
You certainly layed into them 

stagga.

edit....whoever they are.


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## barneyb (10/9/10)

Haha just a bit of fun. :lol:


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## TidalPete (10/9/10)

Siborg said:


> It really shits me when I see people simply post "use the search". A decent poster will say that a search provided these links etc.



I would like to think that I've offered a reasonable amount of advice to new brewers over the years but 'God helps those who help themselves' if you get my drift?
Way back when I first joined this forum I just gleaned, saved, & implemented the information I found here for a long time before I posted my first question & yes, I used the search function that was without the advantage of the Google addition that we are lucky enough to have these days.'
I suppose I'm saying that as with everything in life you can't expect everything handed to you on a plate. Nothing in - Nothing out' as a famous Aussie Olympic distance swimmer was fond of saying.  
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION & WIKIS & if they don't work for you then GOOGLE it & when you run out of options, then ask on the forum.
The search function is not without it's limitations but as a previous poster said, clicking 'More Search Options' will go a long way to finding an answer to your question.
Think of the server space Dane would have saved if all these previously answered questions hadn't been posted over & over again ad infinitum.  

TP


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

barneyb said:


> Haha just a bit of fun. :lol:




Maybe but it will be remembered by the holy ones and some of the old legends of the internet.

Haha Just a bit of fun. :lol:


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## Shed101 (10/9/10)

I tend to think of this place as a bit like a club ... or heaven forbid, a pub.

If I walked into a pub and asked for a beer and the barman said "Get it yourself you knobknocker" ... after helping myself to several pints i'd piss off and probably wouldn't come back.

Ok, you pay in a pub, etc, etc, but the point is you often judge places on the people you find there.

I've asked lots of stupid questions, particularly when I first got here, was desperate to find out the answer before the world suddenly ended and a couple of searches hadn't worked.

Some very kind people responded without patronising me too much, and now several months later my beer's still shit but at least I can pretend here that it's not I have learnt better how to use the resources.

If there wasn't a bit of help in the first place, i'd have fucked off and taken up quilting instead... incidentally what do you think? :beerbang:


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## barneyb (10/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> Maybe but it will be remembered by the holy ones and some of the old legends of the internet.
> 
> Haha Just a bit of fun. :lol:


The internet is serious business.


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## staggalee (10/9/10)

Shed101 said:


> I tend to think of this place as a bit like a club ... or heaven forbid, a pub.
> 
> If I walked into a pub and asked for a beer and the barman said "Get it yourself you knobknocker" ... after helping myself to several pints i'd piss off and probably wouldn't come back.
> 
> ...



Yes, its a lovely quilt, but right now I`m more concerned with this Newbie Revolt. There hasn`t been an uprising like this since.....since... well since 2 weeks ago.
They`re playing up like wounded japs. Call out The Guard.

stagga.


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## chappo1970 (10/9/10)

staggalee said:


> ... I`m more concerned with this Newbie Revolt. There hasn`t been an uprising like this since.....since... well since 2 weeks ago.
> They`re playing up like wounded japs. Call out The Guard.
> 
> stagga.



Your right as always Stagga... Thinkin' its time for some stern gruffing, eyebrow lifting and scornful stares at the computer screen. Besides I think we all need to HTFU!!! This is a beer forum full of blokes who brew beer and occasional get hammered and post crap on a beer forum. It ain't a tea party forum is it?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/9/10)

Chappo said:


> Your right as always Stagga... Thinkin' its time for some stern gruffing, eyebrow lifting and scornful stares at the computer screen. Besides I think we all need to HTFU!!! This is a beer forum full of blokes who brew beer and occasional get hammered and post crap on a beer forum. It ain't a tea party forum is it?


May be instead of those gay barrels we should have balls , so when all the girly boy noob's get a set then they can post. :lol: 
Internet old fart
GB


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## chappo1970 (10/9/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> May be instead of those gay barrels we should have balls , so when all the girly boy noob's get a set then they can post. :lol:
> Internet old fart
> GB




:lol: Gold! Pure Gold!


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

Chappo said:


> Your right as always Stagga... Thinkin' its time for some stern gruffing, eyebrow lifting and scornful stares at the computer screen. Besides I think we all need to HTFU!!! This is a beer forum full of blokes who brew beer and occasional get hammered and post crap on a beer forum. It ain't a tea party forum is it?




The absolute farkin best yet....................... You are back..................... and in form Chap Chap


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

Shed101 said:


>




Hmmmm noice quilt love!


Screwy


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## staggalee (10/9/10)

Actually, it`s like a rest home here after Grumpies infamous beer forum......the kick `em in the balls, eye gougin throat cuttin great old times. Some poor bastards even got mugged on their first post, but all survived to realise just how unique it was in it`s own way.
On another note, I just ordered one of Shed 101`s quilts.

stagga.


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## Shed101 (10/9/10)

staggalee said:


> Actually, it`s like a rest home here after Grumpies infamous beer forum......the kick `em in the balls, eye gougin throat cuttin great old times. Some poor bastards even got mugged on their first post, but all survived to realise just how unique it was in it`s own way.
> On another note, I just ordered one of Shed 101`s quilts.
> 
> stagga.



oh, yeah ... i forgot to show you the flip-side. My favourite beer :beer:


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## staggalee (10/9/10)

Shed101 said:


> oh, yeah ... i forgot to show you the flip-side. My favourite beer :beer:



WTF!!!
Cancel my order!!

stagga.


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## Shed101 (10/9/10)

Too late ... i've despatched it.


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## wedge (10/9/10)

Guys,

Ive joined here quite a while ago and have lurked consistently for the last few years only dropping in when I have the time or the need for knowledge. In hindsight this is probably a bit selfish. I started with the Grumpy's Forum ten years ago one of the reason I started coming here and not there, (as with many people i think), was the pompous and rude replies that would be submitted.

I agree with others - its a pain to reread all the same questions over and over, but that does not give us the right to bludgeon the poor bugger who answered the question. Todays amateur could be tomorrows teacher!

I think this site is definitely under-moderated and sadly there are to many people who think the larger the post count the better the brewer. Think Again.

I am not against a ceiling for posts. eg Once it gets to 500 then it max's out. This will stop stupid and ignorant posts..... hopefully.

Viva Revolution


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## staggalee (10/9/10)

wedge said:


> Guys,
> 
> Viva Revolution








stagga


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## chappo1970 (10/9/10)

:beerbang:


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## staggalee (10/9/10)

ah yes it won`t be long before the hammer drops......I`ll just have a squiz at who`s on moderator now  

stagga.


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

Shed101 said:


>




Fook Orf witcha!

You and Chap Chap at the Swap........ Yeeeessssssss!

Just so long as that barneyb fcuker doesn't turn up.

Anyway back on topic.

Yiskin!

Screwy


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## bradsbrew (10/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> Just so long as that *barneyb* fcuker doesn't turn up.
> 
> Anyway back on topic.
> 
> ...



Is that short for Barneyb fuckin Joyce?


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## Silo Ted (10/9/10)

> I am not against a ceiling for posts. eg Once it gets to 500 then it max's out.



You're 18 posts over that concept  

Still dont know why there are so many 'what ifs'. Just play nice to new brewers, plain and simple. Theres enough people happy to answer the dead simple queries without being an ass about it.


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## bradsbrew (10/9/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Just play nice to new brewers, plain and simple. Theres enough people happy to answer the dead simple queries without being an ass about it.



Nah fuckem


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## Silo Ted (10/9/10)

Finally, we have reached a conclusion on the topic


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## Shed101 (10/9/10)

staggalee said:


> can I have that on my quilt instead of Bud logo?
> 
> stagga.



Calm down... you can put your own balls on your quilt when it arrives.


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

This thread is heading exactly where it was destined to end up.

And it's Hillary Ass!!

Farkin lighten up, so many brewbitches these days. :lol: :chug: 

Screwy


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## Screwtop (10/9/10)

Shed101 said:


> Calm down... you can put your own balls on your quilt when it arrives.




Sheddy and I will be holding a Quilting day here in Gumpy on the 18th. Making a nice Black Sheep Throw :lol:





Screwy


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## Steve (10/9/10)

staggalee said:


> can I have that on my quilt instead of Bud logo?
> 
> stagga.



my ole mate stagga, I love you........first time ive laughed at a computer for years!.
Shed you are gay!


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## Shed101 (10/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> This thread is heading exactly where it was destined to end up.
> 
> And it's Hillary Ass!!
> 
> ...



Yeah, people need to lighten up ... have a John Smith's and watch a video.

http://youtu.be/402akO1WOCM


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## DU99 (10/9/10)

Gee this post went OFF TOPIC in such a big way..offensive pics ,but who cares


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## barneyb (10/9/10)

Screwtop said:


> Just so long as that barneyb fcuker doesn't turn up.


I'll be there with bells on! Can't wait! :beerbang:


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## DangerousDave (10/9/10)




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## PistolPatch (14/9/10)

I really enjoyed reading the replies here that obviously took a bit or, in several cases, a lot of thought. You guys, like me, are now probably just gob-smacked at the bewildering and illogical derailment of this thread. How could anyone possibly reply here with anything thoughtful after the last tirade of what are truly ridiculous posts that show no consideration for other brewers?

The _*only*_ reason I'm writing here is because I started the thread and that so many of you brewers responded with really clever, positive and intelligent comments or ideas. I could say, "Wow!," to several posts in this thread, have seriously thought about others and have enjoyed reading all from those who took the topic seriously.

But, by a mindless, self-perpetuating, inconsiderate and unmoderated minority, you valuable posters have been stopped dead in your tracks ...


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## MaltyHops (14/9/10)

Well, I think there's enough interest to create a new brewer posts index
and instead of just talking about it, I've created several linked articles as
a start on this - see New brewer questions. There are links to loads more
posts that can be added.

Anyway, hope this is helpful.

Tom.


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## np1962 (14/9/10)

MaltyHops said:


> Well, I think there's enough interest to create a new brewer posts index
> and instead of just talking about it, I've created several linked articles as
> a start on this - see New brewer questions. There are links to loads more
> posts that can be added.
> ...


Maltyhops,
You are to be congratulated for your enthusiasm BUT what a waste of time!
It's not the noob brewers showing the interest! This or any other article WILL NOT stop the noob questions OR the answers that these questions get.
As an example This article dates back to December 2007.
There are probably even earlier examples but I'm too lazy to look :icon_cheers: 
The nature of forums is such that simple previously answered questions will continue to be asked and the wil get answered both nicely AND not so nicely.
Just live with it!
Cheers
Nige


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## bcp (14/9/10)

NigeP62 said:


> Maltyhops,
> You are to be congratulated for your enthusiasm BUT what a waste of time!
> It's not the noob brewers showing the interest! This or any other article WILL NOT stop the noob questions OR the answers that these questions get.
> As an example This article dates back to December 2007.
> ...


Nige, I agree with you to a point. Yes, the same questions will be asked. But i think we can do more to reduce it by helping people a little more who join the site. The help must be obvious, not something you have to click around to discover. What do they see when they open the page? The most obvious thing is the forums, so they do the obvious and say, "i'm new and hope this isn't a dumb question, but..."

Maltyhops - what if we put your articles in something like this below? If everyone doesn't tell me this is a dumb idea i'd be happy to work on this with you. 
Moderators - yes it would take some reprogramming, but there is a significant amount of angst over this issue. 

Ok, this is really quick and dirty, obviously. 




That would bring up a welcome page and a bit further down...

*HOW DO I FIND WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR ON THIS FORUM
*
There is lots of information on this forum. 
New Brewer Questions - Here are some common questions asked by new brewers.

Articles: - (include an image where to click - too lazy to do that at the moment) You can find most of the basic information in these articles.

How to research old answers - It's very likely someone has already asked your question. There is a wealth of information contained in our archives, but it's simple to find. First, click here and type in your question.



You can see it uses the Google search engine to find any discussions on the forum in the past. Probably many of your questions can be answered here.





Forums: Read or ask a question - (include an image here of where to click).


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## Shed101 (14/9/10)

When a new member joins and is sent a confirmation email, that email should contain a briefing ... although I still believe people are missing the point of a forum somewhat. Lurkers excepted/accepted many people aren't here to just read, but to interact.

Blame the Y generation - they started.


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## Hatchy (14/9/10)

Is this site really that hard enough to use? Anyone who can't find the info they need on here will struggle to get the can open.


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## pk.sax (14/9/10)

Hatchy said:


> Is this site really that hard enough to use? Anyone who can't find the info they need on here will struggle to get the can open.


Don't you want more girls brewing their own?!!? Whats better than women bringing their beer to ur next club night for judging


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## MaltyHops (14/9/10)

NigeP62 said:


> Maltyhops,
> You are to be congratulated for your enthusiasm BUT what a waste of time!


Thanks ... I think <_< 



bcp said:


> Nige, I agree with you to a point. Yes, the same questions will be asked. But i think we can do more to reduce it by helping people a little more who join the site. The help must be obvious, not something you have to click around to discover. What do they see when they open the page? The most obvious thing is the forums, so they do the obvious and say, "i'm new and hope this isn't a dumb question, but..."


Yep, pretty much the main driver of starting this and as said before, there
are often pretty good responses that become harder to find when they drift
off into history. If this collection of links achieves this, then it will have been
worthwhile, otherwise it's no big deal and can quietly fade into history as well.

Once set up, the effort of adding new links is not much and it's once off and
if good notes are added to show how to add to the collection, people can do
the adding when they see a need to and perhaps the collection will maintain
itself. But if we didn't do anything but just have the occasional gripe about
this issue, well ....



> The nature of forums is such that simple previously answered questions will continue to be asked and the wil get answered both nicely AND not so nicely.


Hopefully this will continue to be the case and the nicely side prevails - of course
a bit of spice helps to balance things like hops to malty sweetness.



> Maltyhops - what if we put your articles in something like this below? If everyone doesn't tell me this is a dumb idea i'd be happy to work on this with you.
> Moderators - yes it would take some reprogramming, but there is a significant amount of angst over this issue.


Don't mind how it's linked to - I put the collection into the articles to allow them to
be edited by any member although it's a bit heavy on using HTML style code (due to
trying to keep entries as compact as possible). The main thing was to get something
in place and see where it goes.



practicalfool said:


> Hatchy said:
> 
> 
> > Is this site really that hard enough to use? Anyone who can't find the info they need on here will struggle to get the can open.
> ...


I think this alone would make the cost of entry worth it.

Tom.


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