# understanding RA



## arctic78 (16/6/16)

Ok first of all i still have a lot of reading to do to try and start understanding all this water adjustment jargon and how it works.
I am just looking if someone can let me know if i am on the right track. I am no scientist

So far from what i have been reading the alkalinity of the water is what affects things most and getting the RA of the water is a good place to start so i can make adjustments for my mash pH . Is this correct??? Or am i totally of track.

I am getting that hard water is not bad ( for certain styles ) but i need to know the RA of my water so i can adjust it correctly for light or dark style beers. I also understand that darker beers have more effect on lowering the pH due to more acidity but how much of an effect will this have?

The other thing that i need to get a good grasp on , I think, is the buffering effect ?? 

Like i said this is all new to me and understanding it all will help me more but is this a good starting point ??
Other things like flavor from certain additions etc. are much further down the track for me
At the moment i just want to improve my beer flavor,clarity,head retention and efficiency by improving my water.
I know there are many other things that affect all these also.

Any comments / help to point me in the right direction is much appreciated .


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## Yob (16/6/16)

Do you have, or have you read the water book?


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## arctic78 (16/6/16)

I have ordered the water book so should have it soon. I've been reading bru'n water's water knowledge to start with as this was recommended to me.
It is a lot to take in so i am trying to find where best to start and what is most important to start with and understand.


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## Yob (17/6/16)

Calcium additions.. I've only a basic understanding myself, bit enough to get in the 5.2 ball park most days.. Good enough for me.


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## MHB (17/6/16)

Braukaiser covers the basics fairly well and its free.
Really I think a lot of people overcomplicate it.
Read your water report -
If there is too much Carbonate in your water - reduce it
If there isn't enough Calcium and Magnesium - add as needed
Sulphate increases perception of hop bitterness - too much gets harsh
Chloride has a mellowing effect - too much tastes salty
Just by using water salts without a shed load of black malt, it's going to be very hard to get down to the optimum pH (much under 5.6 actually) so add acid/acid malt to reach target pH.

Get a good pH meter, calibrating solutions, storage solution and read the instructions - look after your pH meter
Mark


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## Fraser's BRB (17/6/16)

Holy shitballs I've just started looking into all of this, I feel like I'm falling down the rabbit hole.

So much to know!

From what I can see, I think my local water supply (without adjustment) is suited more to light coloured beers and less so to darker beers (my unadjusted RA is 25).

Thanks MHB for the link to Braukaiser, between that and Buinwater, I think I'm getting there in my understanding.

Edit: for clarity, when entering values into the above listed spreadsheets, am I best to use the mean values from my water report? It just seems like the min/max values cover a huge range


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## arctic78 (17/6/16)

Thanks Will look at the Braukaiser link also.

I definatly want to keep it simple but want to have an ok understanding of what i am doing and why.
I have a basic water analysis of the water i am using and it gives me the important minerals etc. but not the hardness or RA. I did find though a good article in an old BYO issue that covers quite a bit and gives you the required formula to convert into mEqv/L and also to work out your RA from your water report ( Kolbach's formula )
also covered a Quite a few other things as well.

Have been looking at pH meters and seeing what people have to say but as always with these things there is a heap of different opinions about it all in regards to what you need. Really i guess what you can afford is what it comes down to and then see what your best options are in that range.


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## Bribie G (17/6/16)




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## Fraser's BRB (17/6/16)

Bribie G said:


> ra.jpg


I see what you've done there.


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## mabrungard (20/6/16)

Residual Alkalinity helps you understand how the calcium and magnesium content of a water affects the pH of a mash conducted with that water. However, RA is not really the way to assess if a water is good for brewing or not. The suitability of water for brewing is dependent upon its mineralization level (typically neither too high or low) and the resulting pH of the mash and wort. RA does not provide adequate insight into those factors and is therefore, not something you should base your brewing water adjustments upon. For that reason, the latest free version of Bru'n Water no longer reports the useless factors such as RA or the sulfate/chloride ratio. That helps keep brewers focused on the things that matter...mash pH and the total mineralization of their brewing water.


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## arctic78 (21/6/16)

Ok thanks. from reading thew water knowledge page and other information i have found i thought sulfate and chloride were important parts of the water analysis and the ratio of the two could have an effect on beer flavour. ???? has this now changed??


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## arctic78 (21/6/16)

Ok ignore my RA curiosity . After much searching and a Sh*t load of reading i have come to the conclusion that RA means sweat FA
Now i need a drink .


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## Yob (21/6/16)

Of water?


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## MHB (21/6/16)

it's good to see someone studding up on water chemistry.
pH, taking a very short view, just refers to how many excess Hydrogen ions (H+) are in solution. What it ignores is the total amount of other salts, if we took a strongly basic (Alkaline ) solution and added just enough acid to balance we would have a pH7 (neutral) mixture, it would still have a crap load of salts in solution.
In fact we would have twice as many ions as we started with (initially - that could change). This wouldn't make the water suitable for brewing.

We are lucky in Australia with our tap water, it's drinkable and to a very large extent tasty, mostly low in everything particularly Carbonates (there are exceptions). For many brewers, just getting rid of the Chlorine (not Chloride) makes it's pretty serviceable.
Get a copy of your local water analysis (arctic78 you could ask manticle he is local to you and has done a lot of work on water) and work out what you need to do to it.
Mark

Slight confusion between two threads
M


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## Alex.Tas (21/6/16)

2013/14 data, so a little old. but good starting point. Hope that helps


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## MHB (21/6/16)

Hobart water looks pretty easy to brew in, just add whatever you like for the style you are brewing.
Mark


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## arctic78 (21/6/16)

Is quite a bit to get your head around to start with but like anything if you persist and read up you can slowly start to learn things, I hope.

Thanks Alex for the water analysis will be very helpful. I am currently using Hartz spring water to brew with as we are not on town water and i thought that easier than trying to figure out my tank water but will be living in town within the next couple of months so this should be easier and cheaper.

Thanks.


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## manticle (21/6/16)

MHB said:


> Hobart water looks pretty easy to brew in, just add whatever you like for the style you are brewing.
> Mark


Even better than melbourne in my experience.
Arctic78 - as mhb hinted, I did write an article some time ago, designed to be clear to people new to water chem. Happy to hunt it up for you and answer any questions I can.

It does need some updating and there were some improvements I intended to make (in-text teferencing and some graphs and diagrams) but I never got around to it.

It was written with Melbourne based brewers in mind but hobart water, rain/tank water or ro type water (anything soft and low in mineral quantity really) can also be treated the same way.

To get your head around it read braukaiser and brun water knowledge pages, have a look at mine if you like and if you want further reading, all of those have cited references. However read all of them more than once, try out a few of the suggested approaches, try them out gently and see what difference it makes to your beer.

Basically getting good water, getting mash pH right, then seasoning the beer according to brew style and preference are the absolute basics though.


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## manticle (21/6/16)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/46120-ahb-articles-water-chemistry/?p=950414

This post has a link to the article I mentioned (down the bottom, post 11). Check brun water for some further info about calcium levels in lagers.


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## arctic78 (22/6/16)

Thanks Manticle. Will have a read of the article you done and will more than likely have a few questions .
the bru'n water and braukaiser info have been very helpful but like you said you need to read them more than once , I've lost count and still need to read more.
Appreciate the help.


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## arctic78 (22/6/16)

Had a read of the paper you done Manticle and have to say that it makes things much easier , For me anyway, To understand. Will read several times tough i imagine. 
Ok so first question . It says that there is a 0.35 shift in pH from mash temp. to room temp. being lower at mash temp. from what i gather your pH reading should always be at room temp. No?

Second question. I was playing around in braukaiser and noticed that when i added Epsom salts to raise the sulfate that it had quite an effect on the magnesium. Can the sulfate be raised with out raising the Mg level?

Again thanks for directing me to the paper.


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## manticle (22/6/16)

1. It is usually recommended to measure at room temp. I'd have to refresh my memory on why but there is an actual change in pH with a change in temperature so worth understanding the difference.

2. Epsom salts are magnesium sulphate. You can use gypsum (calcium sulphate) to boost both calcium and sulphate at the same time which is what I use. You may also be able to find zinc sulphate salts MHB might have further info on that (I remember he had some zinc chloride available when he ran his shop).


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## arctic78 (22/6/16)

Ok thanks i will do some searching about temp. changes.

I just noticed that gypsum also changed the sulfate think i will start with that first and see how things progress.

Thanks.


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## manticle (22/6/16)

When you see a common name like gypsum, epsom salt, salt or chalk, it will be better to find the chemical name to find out what it will affect.

Gypsum = calcium sulphate
Epsom salts= magnesium sulphate
Chalk = calcium carbonate
Bicarb soda = sodium bicarbonate
Salt (table salt) = sodium chloride


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## manticle (22/6/16)

Here is some info on room vs mash temp - just a convention and possibly a way of ensuring pH probes are better looked after.

Mash temp theoretically is fine as long as you know about the difference.

http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2011/03/02/about-ph-targets-and-temperature/


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## MHB (22/6/16)

Manticle covered most of what needed saying
Be careful of Zn it's a trace element never treat it as a "water chemistry" addition in respect to pH.
Iron, Copper, Manganese, Phosphorous... are all absolutely necessary but like Zn in very small amounts Zn, Fe and Cu will in anything other than trace amounts make the beer taste pretty bad (metallic)
Virtually all the trace elements are provided by the malt - the exception being Zn. Malt grown in Australia and Australian soil/water are all low in Zn (causal) so it might be worth adding a _*TOUCH*_ of Zn but we are talking less than 1ppm in most cases.
Mark


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## manticle (22/6/16)

That touch can be found in a quality nutrient like wyeast yeast nutrient.


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## arctic78 (22/6/16)

I have a lot information to study up on now , Thanks to both of you, to keep me busy for quite a while 
I can see why it is important to learn the chemical names as it gives a lot of information to what it contains and what it will effect.
Was going to ask about the wyeast nutrient but no need to now.

Again thanks to both of you for all the help in pointing me in the right direction now i just got to read up and put some of it to use to see the effects it has on my beers.

Cheers.


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