# Whats a good extract kit to use a Philly sour yeast with



## Cha (20/9/20)

As the title says I got some Philly sour yeast and want to try it out with a kit extract. I have an Australian ale and a dark ale in the cupboard from Cooper's but could pop down and get a kit from the LHBS if someone can offer you a good recipe.


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## mje1980 (20/9/20)

Something very light and crisp imho. I made a low alc Berliner Weiss for my first attempt with the philly sour. For a kit a lager or even wheat beer would go well. I’d recommend adding some sugar, it apparently likes simple sugars and a drier beer works well with sours. 

Just my opinions though, it’s up to you really. I’ll definitely use the philly sour again for summer. Very tart and nice subtle fruitiness


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## Cha (21/9/20)

Hey thanks for that @mje1980 . i was also told to throw in about 2kgs of fruit so im planning on adding 2kgs of blueberries in with the ferment. hope thats not going to ruin anything. thoughtsd?


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## kadmium (21/9/20)

Cha said:


> Hey thanks for that @mje1980 . i was also told to throw in about 2kgs of fruit so im planning on adding 2kgs of blueberries in with the ferment. hope thats not going to ruin anything. thoughtsd?


Philly sour yeast in particular will first create lactic acid, then get to work making alcohol. It takes around 10 days to fully ferment out, and should not be co-pitched with other yeast, as they will overtake and dominate the philly sour.

I would make a simple wheat beer, with minimal hop flavour and lowish IBU. Then, after around 4 or 5 days add your fruit. Raspberry goes very well, blueberry could be good but not sure it will add much flavour, it could be dominated by the sourness. I find tartness from raspberries and sourness go very nicely.

For adding the fruit, I would just buy frozen fruit from woolies or coles, and thaw it out. Put it into a clean, sanitised tupperware, and leave in fridge over night. Then, add it to to clean, sanitized hop socks and plop it in. About 1.5kg for 20L is a good start, but you could easily go more.

If you are using a fermzilla etc, you will need to dump the trub prior to adding fruit as the philly sour can add an off taste if you add the fruit directly onto the trub. If you don't have a fermzilla, you can rack to a clean fermenter and add the fruit. Then, let it go for a while longer, probably 3 or 4 days. Cold crash it, and transfer.

Beware, you will need to pay special attention to cleaning and sanitising your fermenter, kegs and beer lines after using sour yeast. Philly sour is not so bad (Brett / pedio is hard to keep in control) so you should be ok to use the same beer lines / taps etc after serving a philly sour. But make sure you take taps apart, clean the seals and flush the beer lines with PBW / water / starsan to ensure you don't end up souring subsequent beers.


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## mje1980 (21/9/20)

Cha said:


> Hey thanks for that @mje1980 . i was also told to throw in about 2kgs of fruit so im planning on adding 2kgs of blueberries in with the ferment. hope thats not going to ruin anything. thoughtsd?



I tried a non fruit beer first to see how I liked the flavour. I really like it. I think it’d go great with fruit.Fruited beers are a pain in the arse though, you’ll need to finish fermentation, then transfer to a secondary on top of the fruit, wait for it to ferment, then deal with a lot of fruit matter in the fermenter. A nice strawberry wheat is pretty tasty though!


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## Cha (21/9/20)

Oops looks like I acted too hastily. I got Cooper's lager, boiled BE2 with some yeast nutrient. Blended 500gr of aldi frozen mango, put the mango into a hop tube then pitched the Philly yeast at 23deg. How bad have a screwed up?


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## kadmium (21/9/20)

Eh, only one way to find out really. 

I wouldn't have used the hop tube as pureed mango will just pass through most likely. Hop socks are to keep skin and seeds in check really. 

If it makes you feel better, Dr Hans did a Phillip sour pretty sure he just added raspberries straight into the fermenter pureed. 

Mango could be quite nice. Just have to see how it turns out, pretty sure it will be tasty. 

Do you have temp control?


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## Cha (21/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Eh, only one way to find out really.
> 
> I wouldn't have used the hop tube as pureed mango will just pass through most likely. Hop socks are to keep skin and seeds in check really.
> 
> ...


Yep I do indeed. Website says between 21 and 25. I set mine to 23deg. Seem ok?


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## kadmium (21/9/20)

Yeah perfect. I was going to say it's important to keep this one warm as it needs 23ish maintained to get a good sour. Going a bit warmer is no issue, as I believe it does its best work in the 23/24 range. 

So spot on. I think it will be delicious. I love well done sour beer.


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## Bourkie (23/9/20)

Very keen to know how this turns out, as I am also interested to do a kit sour (already have the same yeast)


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## Cha (23/9/20)

Bourkie said:


> Very keen to know how this turns out, as I am also interested to do a kit sour (already have the same yeast)


I'll definitely update you guys. It's been a few days so once kegged and ready I'll give my thoughts.


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## Cha (11/10/20)

Alright well I'm down to the last 8 litres and I thought I would update you guys. So the fermentation took about 11 days to complete at which point i kegged it. Tasting it while warm really pronounced the sourness to a point where it overpowered the other flavours. After chilling and carbing the sourness balanced out with a really nice hint of mango. It's a very easy drinking beer that gives you that citrucy lemon face rush. It could do with more mango I reckon. My issue with the sour is it's great to have a glass or 2 before moving to a normal beer but because I only have one keg it gets a little boring to drink constantly. Overall the yeast has definitely delivered on the promise and it brewed a great tasting beer.


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## kadmium (11/10/20)

Awesome feedback. Thanks for the follow up many times people don't and we are all left wondering!


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## Bourkie (22/10/20)

Cha said:


> Alright well I'm down to the last 8 litres and I thought I would update you guys. So the fermentation took about 11 days to complete at which point i kegged it. Tasting it while warm really pronounced the sourness to a point where it overpowered the other flavours. After chilling and carbing the sourness balanced out with a really nice hint of mango. It's a very easy drinking beer that gives you that citrucy lemon face rush. It could do with more mango I reckon. My issue with the sour is it's great to have a glass or 2 before moving to a normal beer but because I only have one keg it gets a little boring to drink constantly. Overall the yeast has definitely delivered on the promise and it brewed a great tasting beer.


Awesome, thanks for the update mate. Might have to give it a crack


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## rugbrod (20/11/20)

I've just put down what I hope to be a margarita-style gose with philly sour yeast. Here's the recipe:

500g LDME
500g Wheat DME
500g Dextrose
10g salt
4 limes zested and juiced
2 oranges zested, then diced with pith removed
1 tsp yeast nutrient

Filled to 10L batch and pitched the whole yeast packet when it gt to ~25 deg C

I'll try and update with my results in a couple weeks!


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## Bourkie (30/11/20)

rugbrod said:


> I've just put down what I hope to be a margarita-style gose with philly sour yeast. Here's the recipe:
> 
> 500g LDME
> 500g Wheat DME
> ...


Yeah, definitely report back


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## MHB (30/11/20)

Curiosity question, I saw a sour recipe the other day that had Lactose.
I would have thought that the souring bacillus would eat lactose, anyone know if the strain used will or not?
Mark


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## rugbrod (1/12/20)

rugbrod said:


> I've just put down what I hope to be a margarita-style gose with philly sour yeast. Here's the recipe:
> 
> 500g LDME
> 500g Wheat DME
> ...



Just bottled this today. Tasted unreal, so happy with how it turned out. Not super sour, which could have something to do with the temperature of 25 around the house during a run of a few warm days in a row. The lime comes through really nicely. Will be interesting to see how it goes once it's conditioned / carbed up.

OG: 1.051
FG: 1.008
ABV: 5.5 - 6.0%


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## GrumpyPaul (1/12/20)

MHB said:


> Curiosity question, I saw a sour recipe the other day that had Lactose.
> I would have thought that the souring bacillus would eat lactose, anyone know if the strain used will or not?
> Mark


I'll have to go on a Google hunt when I'm in front of a computer (too hard for old men on a phone)

But I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that using the Philly sour yeast you can increase the sourness by adding lactose. 

Stay tuned....I'll see if I can find it


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## GrumpyPaul (1/12/20)

Here you go @MHB 









WildBrew Philly Sour™ | Lallemand Brewing


A newly discovered yeast species, WildBrew™ Philly Sour produces ethanol and lactic acid simultaneously, making it ideal for shorter sour beer production times.



www.lallemandbrewing.com





The brewing properties section talks about increased sour with more glucose


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## MHB (1/12/20)

Thanks, I think its fair to say everything eats glucose.
Just that some Lactobacillus are very strange, I know more than few thrive in milk.
Was just a bit of an anomaly, making a sour and adding Lactose, at three or four times the price, well if the bug is going to eat it no point and sweetening a sour - hum.
Maybe if its making Ethanol and Lacto at the same time its a weird type of yeast, God knows there are probably billions of them out there that need exploring. Have to do a bit more digging.
Mark

Edit - just had a quick look it is Lachancea, a saccharomyces so its a yeast. Interesting times.
I'm not inclined to make sour beers, even avoid drinking them in the brewery, one of those couple of times a year type of things.
M


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## GrumpyPaul (2/12/20)

I've only used the Philly Sour once so far and will use it again (don't mind an occasional sour). For me its great because I'm basically a lazy brewer - and relatively impatient. So pitch it and away you go on your way to a sour.

I've done a couple of kettle sours - and although not super difficult, its another step in the process. Most folks with an electric heated system could set the wort to maintain a nice souring temp of 40c. But after the ingrained habits we have as brewers of keeping everything nice and clean, sterile - getting wort into a cube hot enough to sterilise it - the idea of leaving a kettle full of wort sitting in the brew shed for a few days at 40c is a bit worrying.

Philly Sour takes that worry and effort away. I recently described it to a mate as a great little gateway yeast into the world of sours.


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