# Mangrove Jack's Burton Union M79



## TheWiggman

I can't find any discussion on this yeast before so I thought I'd start this thread. 
I recently did a Better Red Than Dead and unfortunately MHB didn't have the yeast I was after. He suggested this instead and said it was bang on for the style.

I brewed Saturday, no chilled and tipped the contents into the fermenter on Sunday night. It bubbled and frothed to the max and I sprinkled the yeast on the bubbles. Temp 22°C with weather cooling. OG 1.054. Didn't rehydrate because I've never done it before. 

Tonight, after 48h, it's still showing almost no activity. There are some coagulations forming near the surface but nothing that follows a typical ferment. It's been sitting between 18-20°C. Gravity hasn't moved. 

Anyone used this yeast before? Not sure why it would be such a slow starter, my lager kicked off faster than this.


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## Lecterfan

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/71569-mangrove-jack-craft-series-yeasts/

Have a read. Then ignore most of it and have a crack yourself…then you can decide what you reckon. I like the MJ BU yeast - doesn't attenuate very well for me, but I like the flavours it throws.


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## TheWiggman

I've got another pack here. Might just commit to the $5.50 and pitch it, better than wasting a whole batch. Time to give this whole rehydration thing a go.


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## TheWiggman

Thick dense layer of krausen 24h later. Either the first lot didn't work or it all took 72h to come to life. 
I've never had that with a dry yeast before pitching at decent temps.


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## TheWiggman

Got it kegged and drinkable. 
Yeast took about 6 days after 2nd addition to reach FG. TARGET 1.015, got to 1.014. 
Flocculated quite well. Actual finished product in the keg is very clear after 2 weeks. On draining the fermenter there were interesting clumps like small twisties of yeast that were settled on the bottom. 
The flavour and aroma of the Better Red Than Dead are as fruity as any beer I've ever had. Stronger on the nose than to taste, but very prominent sultana and chutney type flavour which dominate the beer. I'd say it'll settle over the next few weeks, but it's fruity as buggery now and favours low carbonation.


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## indica86

I made the same brew with the same yeast and loved it...
Not as red as yours, admittedly I did sub some of the crystals.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

TheWiggman said:


> it all took 72h to come to life.
> I've never had that with a dry yeast before pitching at decent temps.


Danstar BRY97 is chronic apparently - I've always rehydrated and had it up and running in less than 24hr.


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## TheWiggman

Some camera trickery was at play there I think indica. Against the light the iPhone gave it a red hue. On the table it's more brown than it is red.
How'd you find it for starting? Did you hydrate?


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## stakka82

Good on you for actually following up with a report, a rare but great thing!


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## indica86

TheWiggman said:


> Some camera trickery was at play there I think indica. Against the light the iPhone gave it a red hue. On the table it's more brown than it is red.
> How'd you find it for starting? Did you hydrate?


I dry pitched and it took a while.
Slightly off topic but I have rehydrated both M44 and BRY97 in side by side brews and they both still took inxs of 24 hours to show krasuen.


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## stakka82

Has anyone used their German wheat yeast? Does it actually throw banannas like the liquid equivalents, or is it more phenol/tart like wb06?


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## Spiesy

I need to try this yeast. Have been meaning to do so for some time.


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## RobB

stakka82 said:


> Has anyone used their German wheat yeast? Does it actually throw banannas like the liquid equivalents, or is it more phenol/tart like wb06?


I have and it's very different to wb-06. It gave me a touch of banana with some nice vanilla flavours. Of the liquids, I'd say it's closest to 3638, without being the same.

I like it and intend to use it again.


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## StalkingWilbur

Rehydrated four packets into 45L of a 1.080 stout. Krausen was smaller than I expected consider some things I had read. Finished at 1.020. Tasted great from hydrometer sample. Won't be tasting it for a while, but will report back when I do.


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## jyo

Malty Cultural said:


> I have and it's very different to wb-06. It gave me a touch of banana with some nice vanilla flavours. Of the liquids, I'd say it's closest to 3638, without being the same.
> 
> I like it and intend to use it again.


What temp did you run it at, MC? Just about to cube 50 litres of Hefe and I was thinking of going for 19'.


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## 7roy

I've used the US West Coast and Burton Union yeasts, re-hydrated both, didn't see any action until after 24 hours. Both fermented in about 6 days once starting, it was a little concerning waiting for them to start but all was well in the end.


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## RobB

jyo said:


> What temp did you run it at, MC? Just about to cube 50 litres of Hefe and I was thinking of going for 19'.


Actually it got away from me and fermented warmer than I wanted it to. Here you go:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76362-m20-dry-yeast-bavarian-wheat/


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Chucked this, rehydrated onto some Mild wort (forgot to take 'cool temp' SG, thanks to SWMBO hurrying me out the door).

Forgot to close the door on the hot water system cupboard, so hopefully that hasn't hurt the cause.

At any rate, so long as it goes and does what it needs, I'll report back.


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## Doug2232

Pitched mine on Saturday arvo and its now Monday and next to no activity with the MJBU. Probably around 48 hours all up sitting at 16 degrees
Should I chuck in another pack or just wait it out???

** EDIT**
Rugged it up in a blanket. Thinking it may be a bit cold in the garage for the yeast to kick start... Hoping its still good.


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## Tilt

I'm waiting it out. Pitched mine (1 pkt of yeast rehydrated in 200ml of 25 degree water for 20 mins) into 20l of 18 degree 1055 wort on Saturday morning.
There was a thin 1cm krausen before I left for work this morning. 
Common feedback says that 48 - 72 hours before a krausen forms isn't unusual for this yeast.... And results don't seem to suffer for it.
Give it another day


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## Doug2232

Cheers tilt.

Was a bit worried as there are signs or a krausen close to forming, Just nothing solid yet compared to the usual beast mode Safale activity.... Wrapped in a blanket to give it a kick start overnight. hoping for some life by the morning.


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## Tilt

Yep - it's not the usual ripping Nottingham or so5 kick off hey. It's got me feeling a bit uneasy too. I'll wait for the end result to see if it's a yeast I want to use again. Slight points against at the moment tbh.


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## DeGarre

I am bottling tomorrow ie 19 days after brewing, 1058° went down to 1014° ie 5.5%, I was expecting a bit more. Tasting notes to follow in 2 weeks time.


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## DeGarre

I am having the yeasty last pint from the FV and am not sure if it's the amber malt or the yeast, but there is something so familiar. Clean but still somehow fruity, like prune or some other dried or candied fruits, that green one especially, never can remember the name.

Seems like a winner, most of the bottles will go off-site for safe-keeping until Christmas so it seems like Christmas is sorted...


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## indica86

I like it. Currently drinking an English Pale with it, great malt taste. Dumped the slurry in a AIPA and English IPA ready to be bottled tomorrow.


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## anthonyUK

I was about to use this at the weekend but read some reports of banana esters, poor clarity and overly yeasty flavour so changed to S-04.
Anyone have similar experiences with this yeast as it doesn't fit with MJ description especially flocc. 4/5??


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## Doug2232

How's your clarity tilt??

Mine isnt great atm


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## B1n0ry

I used the Burton Union yeast in a 1.050 Bitter (rehydrated). After 36 hours there was very little activity, but then it seemed to spring to life. Floating on top with the krausen were these little round clumps of yeast. Heaps of them. Not sure if that was normal.
Yeast got moving though: did all it was going to do within 7 days.
Can't comment on clarity because it is still bottle conditioning.


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## Tilt

Doug2232 said:


> How's your clarity tilt??
> 
> Mine isnt great atm


Too early to tell Doug. Mines been in the fermentor 9 days. The krausen dropped about day 6 and it's now finishing off and cleaning up at 21 degrees for a few days. I'd expect there to be plenty of yeast in suspension tidying up after the party. I'll rack to a keg with finings at 2 weeks and will know a few days after that how bright the beers gunna be. Give it time to do its thing I reckon


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Clarity in the bottles (I'm not able to test it until Friday) is fantastic and (thanks to me knocking over so bottles and picking them up again) it appears to sit like a stone.

Will let you know about flavour, but from the fermenter smelled very 'typically English' in esters with a faint Belgian smell.

I rehydrated, was up and running in 24 hours. No worse than BRY97 for me.

Repitched slurry on a BIG beer and it was going pretty quick.

Based on smell alone, it replaces S04 which I'm not happy with, jury is out on Windsor (which is what the like for like test was for).


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## DeGarre

DeGarre said:


> I am having the yeasty last pint from the FV and am not sure if it's the amber malt or the yeast, but there is something so familiar. Clean but still somehow fruity, like prune or some other dried or candied fruits, that green one especially, never can remember the name.
> 
> Seems like a winner, most of the bottles will go off-site for safe-keeping until Christmas so it seems like Christmas is sorted...


What a change in 7 days! Nicely carbonated, orangey colour. Dry, crisp, bitter. Very clean and refreshing, although it fermented mostly in 22-24°C. I am dropping Notty, these Mangrove yeasts seem to condition and clean out very quickly.


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## DeGarre

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> ...with a faint Belgian smell.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree, but without the spiciness. Seems great already after 1 week from bottling.


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## DeGarre

This beer needs to be chilled for a long time in order not to gush. Very Duvel-like dry Belgian characteristics but without the spiciness. If I was drinking this blindfolded I would say it was a Duvel-clone or something similar to the style.

Very nice but not what I was expecting from this yeast.


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## DeGarre

I have one packet left so at some stage when the fermenting temps have cooled down a bit I'll give it another try - with an English barley wine.


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## lukencode

Thinking about using this yeast in a marris otter, challenger smash english bitter. Worried a bit about excessive esters and cloudiness some people have reported. After something nice and crisp, dont mind a bit of belgian.


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## Topher

Anyone get craploads of diacetyl? Well I assume it's diacetyl, tastes like a butter menthol was dropped in the glass.


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## Tilt

I'm not going to use this one again. The keg has stayed murky as the Yarra , while the other half of a split batch fermented with another yeast has cleared nicely. The pseudo Belgian flavour isn't prominent or distinctive enough for my tastes either. If I'm going to do Belgian then I'll do it properly. Plenty of other yeasts in the sea....


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Funny result @tilt - almost the opposite of what i got.

My mild was dead clear and it sank to the bottom like a mafia informant wearing concrete boots.

Easily the most flavoursome dry yeast, though nothing on the wet equivalents.

I've entered into the TSHBC as a bitter (it pretty much is), just to see what they pick up.


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## Tilt

Yeah - thought that myself LRG considering the clear results some of you blokes seem to be getting. 
I would have thought it was a process issue rather than the yeast if the other half of the wort fermented with Denny's fave yeast hadn't settled bright (which itself has a reputation for poor floccing). 
This was a double batch, no chill and nothing out of the ordinary from my usual acid/salt adjustments for pale ale pH and flavour. 
I'm slightly curious but not really enough to bother trying it again when there are plenty of other tried and tested yeast I know I prefer. I've put this one down to an experiment on testing a new product but can't be bothered sticking with it.


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## DeGarre

Finally the brewing of barley wine becomes closer - already started to crush 10.2kg of grain, going double-mash with my 20L BM and aim for 10% abv. A big beer indeed. 

I have got 2x Burton Union yeast and am going to rehydrate for a change. The plan is not to use sugar, just aim for 1.100+ OG and get as close to 10% abv as possible.

Does this seem realistic? What can I expect from the yeast?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

I popped this in the 'general' thread for all Mangrove Jacks yeasts, but given it concerns the M79, it's worth popping in here too.

I entered (as stated above) my mild into the TSHBC as a bitter. I expected to drop a few points, but more for laughs and keep the comp numbers up.

It got a bronze. So lag time isn't an issue. I rehydrated, but still got some lag, but not what has been typical of most.

I also made an RIS with the yeast leftover from the mild. I took a 600ml coke bottle from the bottom of the fermenter through the tap, let it settle in the fridge and then poured off the beer on top and chucked in the yeast, leaving the trub in the bottom of the bottle. It also had to work with the limitations of my system to get 2 x 15L lots of high grav beer* (see the two pot stovetop method thread). So everything that could have gone wrong was there.

It got a gold.

They're obviously decent yeasts, even with the 'lag' - if it bothers you, rehydrate. I did and it worked.

*Incidentally the 'other' beer on the day was a bronze and I was informed by the judges that if it had been entered in as an AIPA not an IIPA, it'd have been a gold as well.


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## klangers

Used this yeast twice on the same recipe (dry pitched). End result has been delicious both times. Both took over 48 hours to show visible krausen on a 1050 OG wort with good aeration and stable temps.

After occurring twice, despite the directions on the packet, I've concluded that rehydration is key to a decent start on these yeasts.

Or just be patient.


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## DeGarre

Dry-pitched 2 packets 7 days ago into 1094°, quick to start, krausen has made a big mess, hasn't moved much in 2 days, is now at 1048°, 6% abv, 50% attenuation.

Doesn't look good although the plan was to keep it in the FV for at least 3 weeks. Airlock still has some activity.

I want to avoid what happened last time with this yeast, all activity had stopped, bottled 1058° at 1016° and 5.5% abv, fermented in the bottle and ended up at 6.4% duvel-like gushers.


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## kaiserben

I dry pitched 1 packet M79 into an 8L of OG 1.042.

Steady temp of around 20C. Had tell-tale signs of krausen when I next checked - after about 20 hours. 

So far so good. Hoping to avoid the overly fruity esters described by others.


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## DeGarre

Thats me done with Burton Union yeast, never again. Used it 2 times, on both occasions problems.

Re-pitched after 17 days with Nottingham to move this below 1.039 (started at 1.094).


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## Bribie G

I've got a couple of packets on the way.

Is everybody Burtonising their water with magnesium sulphate and calcium sulphate?

Also, in common with Yorkshire Square yeasts it would probably benefit from extra oxygen for the first couple of days by thrashing the krausen back into the beer, the idea of the Burton Union system being to expose the yeast to extra oxygen during the vigorous part of the fermentation by letting the krausen rise into a trough then letting the wort run back into the casks.





I'll be doing both.


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## seamad

DeGarre said:


> Thats me done with Burton Union yeast, never again. Used it 2 times, on both occasions problems.
> 
> Re-pitched after 17 days with Nottingham to move this below 1.039 (started at 1.094).


I'm not having a go at you DeGarre but I've seen a lot of posts similar and I wonder whether it's the yeasts fault or the brewers.
I mainly use liquid yeasts but have used 3 of the MG yeasts, not the Burton though, with no problem.
I use yeastcalc to work out my pitching rates, and if I had 20L of 1.094 I would need about 450 billion yeast cells. Mangrove Jack claim a minimum of 5 billion cfu ( or cells) per gram, which means you'd need 90 grams or 9 packets if only the minimum amount of cells were viable. Most agree that the real figure is up to 20 billion cells per gram, or 22.5g minimum for a 20l batch, so at least 2 packets, and I'm not even going to get into the rehydration caper here either.As nothing is perfect then you'd want at least 3 packs to account for viability issues. MJ reckons you would need 2 packs for a high gravity brew but it's pretty vague advice.
The other thing to consider with such a high gravity brew is the need for some pure O2 to get things started as well.
As I've said I haven't used the Burton but have used 3 others ( and I think there have been complaints about some other MJ yeasts ) and pitched at 1g/L with O2 injection and had no problems ( hope ol murph didn't hear that )


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## DeGarre

No probs seamad, I treat all my dry yeasts the same, British Ale from Mangrove was a treat, used it a few times, this Burton bugger I am not so lucky with,
this particular brew I dry-pitched 2 packets.

I need a no-nonsense sturdy dry yeast that is care-free, and Burton Bugger is the first one I've ever had problems with. Perhaps it needs some special attention and love that I am not able to give it, yeasts like s04, Notty, US05 etc on the other hand will take a good rogering without any complaint.


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## Bribie G

I've got a few Coopers yeasts from under the lids I can send you.

ed:
The Mangrove Jacks series represents a number of different yeast strains that do indeed each require different treatment - not to mention attention and love - otherwise there would be no point in bringing out a range, as opposed to a "Mangrove Jacks Ale Yeast", which is more or less what Morgans and Coopers do for their kit yeasts.

I've bought the Burton yeast so I can treat it as if it's in a Burton Union system using the appropriate water salts with ingredients that are similar to what you would find in a Marstons ale. I wouldn't use it for a Northern Brown for example, which is why I've bought the Northern Brown yeast as well.

If you are looking for a bulletproof forgiving yeast then Coopers kit yeast or S04 should fit the bill if you are not looking for a particular yeast characteristic in your different ales.

And rehydrate otherwise, according to the Yeast Book you are killing up to half the yeast cells by dry pitching into wort, and if dry pitching into something like barley wine:


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## TheWiggman

I'm curious to know how you're going to set this up Bribie G. A quick scour of the WWW yielded https://byo.com/stories/item/351-build-a-burton-union-system-projects. There are other similar setups about.

The big difference I can see between the home and 'traditional' systems is the inclusion of an airlock. You say though that the system allows extra oxygen in which the yeast benefits from in the first few days. Do you plan to leave the blowoff vessel open to air for a few days then shut off or keep it as a closed system?


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## Bribie G

I'll just be doing my "Yorkshire Square" routine by thrashing air into the wort twice a day. Another thought is to do a double drop.
My garage is nowhere near clean enough to do open systems but I've considered making a little sort of clean room with poly sheeting on a frame.
Plus a filtered air source to create a small positive air to get rid of CO2 in the chamber. I've got a font snake blower that could work.


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## mfeighan

i have no problems with attenuation and flocculation with this yeast. I really didnt like the belgium esters it threw. Still a nice beer but not a pommy beer which i was planning

edit: rehydrated and it took between 24-48hrs to start


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## kaiserben

kaiserben said:


> I dry pitched 1 packet M79 into an 8L of OG 1.042.
> 
> Steady temp of around 20C. Had tell-tale signs of krausen when I next checked - after about 20 hours.
> 
> So far so good. Hoping to avoid the overly fruity esters described by others.


Just quoting myself here because I've got follow-up feedback. 

The above batch turned out great. However I can definitely taste those fruity esters (so will be looking at different yeasts soon). 

In the meantime I repeated the above (1 packet M79 into 8L of OG ~1.042) in a second batch and there's now been 5 days with no activity. I took the FV for a drive today and rolled it around a bit (had to move it to diff location, and also hoping to get some activity in there). 

I'm wondering whether to shake the bejesus out of it, again, for aeration? Is it okay to aerate as much as I like as long as it's before high krausen?


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## kaiserben

Forget what I wrote above about the second batch having no activity. I got around to taking a gravity reading and it's down to 1.016 (from 1.042) after 7 days. 

No visible signs of a ferment besides trub.


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## Mickcr250

What temps do people recommend for this yeast? I did a double batch of the coopers pa clone from the data base on Friday and was going to do one cube with my recultured coopers yeast and the other with m79 since I have had a pack in the fridge for a wile. Only issue is I would usually ferment at 17-18 with coopers yeast and a little worried about the m79 not firing or falling asleep on me at that temp. Anyone gone this low with this yeast?


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## Jkpentreath

Just finished Jzs English IPA, 1pak into 15 lt rehydrated at og of 1048. Finish in four days at 1013. Fermented at 19. Dropped so clear by day 5. In the keg no tasting notes yet


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## Mickcr250

Temps ? Anyone?


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## Jkpentreath

I pitched at 16 c fermented at 19c. Chilled a week in . Kegged some bottled some. Some how a chunk of yeast lodged in the tap, fucked the keg transfer, so I stopped , sealed the keg up and chucked a few bottles down. Tried it last night , don't remember putting bananas in the mash?


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## kaiserben

All my M79 temps have fermented around to 19-20C mark. All gone off without a hitch. 3 batches now. 

I can't see how 17-18C would pose a problem (I'd rather ferment at that temp TBH, to see if I could eliminate some of the fruity esters I'm getting).


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## Mickcr250

Thanks guys I will chuck them both in the fermenters tonight and will report back.


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## Mickcr250

36 hours now and no krausen yet from the m79 a few bits of protein have floates to the surface though so I think it has started, I also thought I saw a few bubbles come to the surface but very little activity at this stage. My coopers commercial one however is going CRAZy! Kicked off after about 15 hours and has been tearing it up since then


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## kaiserben

With one batch recently I didn't see krausen at all - but it most definitely fermented out. (I'm assuming it just formed and then dropped really quickly and somehow didn't leave any high tide marks inside the fermenter). 

The only 100% thing to trust is your gravity readings.


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## Mickcr250

Got home this arvo too find the m79 batch now has a good size krausen, looks like its been there a wile so I would say maybe 38 hours till krausen.will report back when its done if the 17 degree ferment helps the ester levels


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## Byran

I used this yeast on my last English pale, it fermented pretty good but at room temp it threw heaps of ester, flocced out good too, I reckon it would be better at a lower temp <18C. Or better used for porters or stouts.I reckon I probably prefer WLP007 dry english ale over this stuff personally.


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## Mickcr250

Soooo took an gravity reading today and the coppers batch is at 1010 and the m79 is still at 1026 after 6 days :/ not too impressed at the moment... The hydro sample was almost dead flat too so its pretty much stalled. Gave the fermenter a good rock and raised the temp up to 20 in a hope to bring it back


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## Mickcr250

Good news guys checked the gravity on these brews tonight and the m79 kicked off again after raising the temp so has now bottomed out at 1010. Initial tastes from the hydro sample seem good I will report back in a few weeks when its all carbed up


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## wereprawn

Used this yeast on an ESB on Friday arvo. Tired and half cut, i added an extra kg of grain without realizing. Ended up with an OG of 1063 :blink: Only had 1 pack of yeast, so in it went. Had a decent krausen after 12 hours.


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## Mickcr250

Bottled both batches tonight and I must say the m79 has dropped clear as! Just two weeks in primary with no cold crash and its already pretty clear. It tasted pretty good too, I'm looking forward to tasting it alongside the coopers batch


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## Mickcr250

Just having my coopers clone with m79 now and I really like it actually! No Belgian esters at all, fairly clean with just enough enough English character to make it interesting


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## Adr_0

So does this yeast anything like 1275? The performance seems similar but don't get a log of banana out of 1275 — more light pear and cherry. I will of course rehydrate and throw a litre of wort in to kick it off. Any comparison, a worthy substitute?


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## Adr_0

Well I can safely say this is not much chop as a bottle fermenting yeast. I didn't fully appreciate the 'Burton Union' and requirement to be kept moving... so batch prime and bottling is probably the worst possible thing for it. I'll just have to roll them around each day I guess, and stick to S-04 for bottle conditioning in future...


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## TheWiggman

How so Adr_0? Mine carbed up fine.


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## Adr_0

I had just under 9L in an oak barrel, so very little yeast in suspension (1275) and very little CO2.

I had 1/3 packet of M79, rehydrated, with about 7-8g/L of dextrose solution which should be about 2.5volCO2. It has worked wonders before, e.g. using wine yeast for cider or S-04 for beer.

It has only been 10 days, but there was only the slightest, minute hiss, the beer is dead flat and there is a nice slurry on the bottom of each bottle. So I wondered if it flocs really well and relies on continued suspension to multiply (i.e. the Burton Union system), so in my bottle conditioning situation where there is still, enclosed wort it has just flocced out without doing any multiplication/chewing.

Another bottle may be different, and obviously another week or two could help... but using this method normally gets me nicely carbonated in 1-2 weeks.


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## kaiserben

I've just got around to trying this yeast again. 

Pitched 2 x Rehydrated sachets into 23L of 1.061 wort at 6pm Sunday evening. Aerated with pure O2. Temp held at 19C. Signs of yeast activity seen at 2am (8 hours after pitching). Obvious krausen sighted at 9am Monday morning (<15 hours after pitching). No problems there whatsoever.


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## Spohaw

Made a 1.5 liter yeast starter up with this yeast ...... first time doing a starter , went from 2 packets in 500mls of wort to 1.5ltrs of wort

was a cm of krausen pretty much straight away and was going ape shit 2 hours after pitching ( I use the lid and the airlock ....I like the sound haha )

Yeast starters from now on I think ..... from the few times I have used Mangrove jacks yeasts without a starter they have taken a while to start showing any krausen

I like your commitment kaiserben ....checking your fermenter at 2 am hahah


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## kaiserben

Spohaw said:


> I like your commitment kaiserben ....checking your fermenter at 2 am hahah


One must remain vigilant! (but in reality I'm a night owl and was up watching English Premier League)


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## anthonyUK

Spohaw said:


> Made a 1.5 liter yeast starter up with this yeast ...... first time doing a starter , went from 2 packets in 500mls of wort to 1.5ltrs of wort
> 
> was a cm of krausen pretty much straight away and was going ape shit 2 hours after pitching ( I use the lid and the airlock ....I like the sound haha )
> 
> Yeast starters from now on I think ..... from the few times I have used Mangrove jacks yeasts without a starter they have taken a while to start showing any krausen
> 
> I like your commitment kaiserben ....checking your fermenter at 2 am hahah


Did you make a starter from dried yeast?


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## Spohaw

Yeah seemed to kick off ferment quicker


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## Adr_0

So what are the flavours that come off this yeast?


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## Markbeer

I used this yeast at 19 degrees in 1070 wort.

Belgian character. I like it.

I made a starter. But i do for every yeast dry or wet.


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## Adr_0

Hmmm. So phenolic, banana, bubblegum rather than apple, pear, cherry, stonefruit? Has anyone tried it at 15-16°C? Thinking of using it for an English Bitter as I have a couple of packs in the fridge.


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## kaiserben

Mine's fermenting at 19-20C. I'll leave it for 2 weeks before pulling a gravity sample and then bottling.

I'm using it in a Red Ale that I've previously made only with M44 (US West Coast) and quite a bit of dry hops. I'm thinking I won't dry hop this batch because I'd like the malts (and some toffee that I put in at end of boil) to come through. I'll report back my impression of the yeast once I taste it.


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## TheWiggman

Adr_0 said:


> Hmmm. So phenolic, banana, bubblegum rather than apple, pear, cherry, stonefruit? Has anyone tried it at 15-16°C? Thinking of using it for an English Bitter as I have a couple of packs in the fridge.


I wouldn't describe it that way. Here's what I thought:



TheWiggman said:


> The flavour and aroma of the Better Red Than Dead are as fruity as any beer I've ever had. Stronger on the nose than to taste, but very prominent sultana and chutney type flavour which dominate the beer. I'd say it'll settle over the next few weeks, but it's fruity as buggery now and favours low carbonation.


Been a while now but I don't recall any phenolic-like flavours, it was chutney and fruit all the way.


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## super_simian

I got a lot of banana and pear, a little clove. And quite high attenuation. Not what I was aiming for at the time, but I am holding a packet for a planned UK Strong/Old Ale (TOP-esque) as I notice my favorite examples (TOP, BrakspearTriple III, Riggwelter) have a pretty estery nose (not unlike many Belgian beers, but more fruity and less pronounced).


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## kaiserben

kaiserben said:


> Mine's fermenting at 19-20C. I'll leave it for 2 weeks before pulling a gravity sample and then bottling.
> 
> I'm using it in a Red Ale that I've previously made only with M44 (US West Coast) and quite a bit of dry hops. I'm thinking I won't dry hop this batch because I'd like the malts (and some toffee that I put in at end of boil) to come through. I'll report back my impression of the yeast once I taste it.


Just reporting back - I bottled this a few hours ago. 

I did get a few whiffs of banana during transfer. But when smelling a sample in glass all I could smell was beautiful toffee/malt. 

It tasted amazing; a slight boozy touch to it (it does clock in over 6% abv, so that could be why). I don't think I'd describe it as the same boozy like a Belgian dubbel. It was much cleaner and maltier than that. Thinking back to it now there was possibly a bit of chutney as described by TheWiggman.


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## fraser_john

I got phenolics from it as well, no fruit/nut at all. Was very disappointing and each comp I entered it in came back with those flavours/aromas not appropriate to style. Won't use it again.


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## Adr_0

I think that has sold it for me. I'm no sure what chutney flavour is, but I'm hearing more Belgian characteristics than something closer to 1275. Ah well.


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## TheWiggman

What pitching rates did you use fraser_john? I used two packs in 23l, would that have anything to do with it?


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## fraser_john

TheWiggman said:


> What pitching rates did you use fraser_john? I used two packs in 23l, would that have anything to do with it?


Same, I used two packets, re-hydrated per Mangrove Jacks instructions, in 24 litres wort @ 22c.

Lag time was around 8 hours, oxygenated with pure O2, 0.5 litre/minute for 5 minutes. 

View attachment Rehydration Temperatures.xlsx


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## Markbeer

I get phenolics at 19c.

I like it in a blonde ale.


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## GalBrew

There is something seriously wrong if an 'English' style yeast is throwing phenolics at any temp.


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## GalBrew

Topher said:


> Anyone get craploads of diacetyl? Well I assume it's diacetyl, tastes like a butter menthol was dropped in the glass.


Necro alert:

Yes. I have never made a beer with diacetyl in my life. Got the chur session IPA Grainfather kit which came with M79. Pitched two rehydrated packets started at 18 and ramped up to 22C. I did a forced diacetyl test and thought I picked up a whiff so upped the temp to 22C for a couple of days to try and clean it up. Anyway, the finished beer has the slightest hint of diacetyl, which I [email protected] hate. Will not be using this yeast ever again.


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## kaiserben

I've detected no diacetyl any time I've used it. (but I can't vouch for my threshold for tasting it, as I've never really noticed it except in a fault tasting seminar) 

The other night I happened to taste my beer mentioned earlier (post #85), which I'd hidden away at the back of my cupboard for 7 months. And now it tastes absolutely amazing. Will definitely re-make my recipe again and use M79. I wouldn't change a thing.


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## Randai

Did a simple english bitter with it and am now just tasting it. Definitely get a bit of spiciness/belgian style yeast flavour (at least that I can tell).

Not sure on the fruitiness of it, but I have another graff and hoppy amber coming up. See if I can pick up anything.

I fermented around 19 C for both of those.


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