# Ghetto Braumeister - Biab W/ Controller



## Bizier

Has anyone made a PID/other controlled recirculated BIAB vessel?

I am in the middle of a 3v brewery build, and I keep thinking how easy it would be to control an electric boiler (pot with element or Crown style urn) with a PID, put a little raised FB in the bottom for the bag to sit on and allow the pump to easily draw liquor from beneath.

If you took the temperature where the wort draws from under the FB, it should be your hottest part of the mash and should also be transferred to the top again, so not build up heat and denature enzymes.

If you used a small pump and efficiently sized controller box, the thing could be pretty tiny.

If you included a little hoist, you could set it high enough so the bottom of the bag is just touching the surface of the wort and do a clarifying step to keep any particulate in the bag.

The main thing though is that it would have to be able to be done _*seriously *_on the cheap and provide use as a compact and reliable wort producer for those in apartments etc.

As svelte and sexy as a Braumeister, perhaps not; but close, perhaps.

Has anyone done this?
Thoughts?

I did a quick search and saw something on HBT, but I couldn't see the images.


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## Thirsty Boy

Essentially you would be looking at the "mash tun" component of an electric brutus 10, add a bag. A couple of people have done things essentially like this.

Funny really - IIRC it was people seeing the braumeister and speculating on how to build a ghetto version thereof, that started the threads and conversations about an "all in one" brewing system which eventually lead to the idea of BIAB in the first place.ntheremwe a few variations on the all in one theme tried out... BIAB emerged as the popular favourite, but it wasn't the only workable system built.


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## ekul

Theres a video of a ghetto one on youtube if you do some searching there. I reckon biab with RIMS or herms could be great. Probably wouldn't get the same wort clarity as a 3v system, but most off that shit falls out in hte whirlpool anyway. You'd get the most important part though, which is the repeatability of a recirculated heted mash. I've been thinking about rims ona biab for ages, but at the moment i have other things to buy. 

If you do it make sure you put up a build, so that others can see it.


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## aaronpetersen

I've been recently thinking about setting up the exact same system, although I hadn't considered recirculating through the hoisted bag, which seems like a brilliant idea. Unless you're planning to do automated step mashes I don't think you need a PID. I reckon a Tempmate or similar would suffice as you are heating a fairly large volume of water so overshoot shouldn't be a concern. That is based purely on theory (my theory) with no actual experience of the matter so I could be completely wrong.
Here's a link to a gas fired version link


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## beerbrewer76543

I started building a 70L ghetto Braumeister but changed my tact as I wanted to be able to brew double batches of high gravity beer so I opted for a 3V setup (nearing completion)

I think you could get around the efficiency issues with high gravity brewing by adding a second vessel for a sparging step but this moves away from the KISS approach of the Braumeister


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## Bizier

That gas one is on the money, except I am thinking a much smaller form factor. And why just go a temp mate when you can get a PID off eBay for $20 or so?

I reckon if you had the following, you would have a neat little ghetto system:

40L Al pot - $78 +gst
Element - $39.90
Pump - $35 ish
PID - $26ish
SSR + Heatsink - About $10 all up
12v 0.5A Supply for pump - $5
PT100 Probe - $9


A couple of switches and threaded fittings, a little bent copper, an electronics housing and you should be gold.

So perhaps doable for $250 *provided you have access to a sparky* and can manage some housing.

I figure you need a length of silicone hose to go to the top of the kettle, where you could have some kind of female camlock (or even just slide 1/2" pipe into it) so you can swap between a sparge ring, a little tangential output for a whirlpool, and your final output fill hose.


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## Bizier

And I am thoroughly into building a 3v HERMS System, so this is purely musing, but if I bought a small apartment, I would be totally starting something like this.


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## vykuza

I'm actually in the process of doing this right now. I was going to go 3V, but came to to conclusion that I really don't have the space for it. However, I also really wanted to do stepped mashes and I find it a pain using BIAB.

Though it's not going to be super ghetto (as fart as cost is concerned) I'm confident that it will still be cheaper than a 20L braumeister. I'm using my existing 40L birko, having a perforated false bottom fabricated to keep the bag off the element, as well as give the bag (and .. grain bed I suppose) a flat surface in which to settle and act as a filter. I'll be driving the urn's own element with the Auber PID and SSR to get the correct temperature, and recirculate with a march 809. The wort flow is via the urn's tap, through the pump and back to the top of the bag. When the mash is finished, disconnect the pump, hoist the bag, (sparge if necessary) set the PID's step to all-systems-go and boil as normal.

I'm building the pump, pid and SSR into a toolbox for easy storage. Like this guy: http://brewing.lustreking.com/gear/portapump.html

My sticking point at the moment is wort return into the urn. I'm not sure whether just sticking a hose to the side of the urn will disturb the contents of the bag too much, considering the water/grain ratio makes the mash so loose.


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## Harry Volting

Funny how the collective AHB consciousness works. 
I've suffered from Braumeister lust since I first met...sorry; saw one in the flesh at MHB.
Well worth the outlay (all things considered) and I want one.

My alternative in the mean time is a cheap but effective compromise known to my family as Godzilla.
A 48 litre urn, stc1000 controller and a 12 volt high temp food grade recirc pump from Thailand. All ebay.
A heap of Mr Bunnings plumbing hardware and a sheet of perforated stainless sheet from MHB.
Less than $250 from memory. I started using it as BIAB but now use it as a mash tun (no sparge).
My original BIAB 30 litre urn is now my boil kettle. 
Reliable for over a year and I brew every other week.

Hope this helps.
Harry


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## felten

I've also often thought it would be fairly cheap and easy to add a pump and a false bottom and have a recirculated BIAB, but using gas instead rims/herms, like a manual brutus10. I'm way too cheap to give it a go though, and there's probably a lot of problems that would crop up I can't even think of. Adding an element and a controller would definitely be the way to go, but would require even more cash to setup.

If you could fit a malt pipe in there like the braumaister it would be even cooler, the grain bed wouldn't get moved around as much as it would in a bag, possibly undoing all your work in recirculating for clarity.


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## Phoney

Ive made a contraption that's slightly different. I built a box that sits on the top of the urn lid with a temperature probe that protrudes down into the wort, as well as a great big SS mixing device that's controlled by a gear motor. In a separate box i've got a mashmaster temperature controller that controls the on/off for the urn & a 12V switchmode power supply that drives the gear motor.

Basically it constantly stirs the mash and holds the mash at a constant temperature without the need for insulation, or manual stirring when ramping up to mash-out.

It works OK.


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## WhiteWolf

I've built one (I use an Aubrins PID) and I have to say it has made the BIAB concept even easier for me. Things that I have learnt along the way - some I haven't bothered to fix yet:

1) Choose the right element - I got 2x2200W SS elements that are straight rods - awesome heating capability but the whirlpool isn't as effective since they are in the way - circular ones or curved ones would be the ducks nuts.

2) Insulate the pot well - this way the elements aren't on for long and there is less chance to denature the enzymes

3) Step mashes are still better if you add boiling water to get the temp quickly - there is a lot to heat to the step

3) Go to a chinese pot store and they have SS steamer inserts (you are meant to use a trivet in chinese cooking but I use 3 x long SS bolts) that you can use as a false bottom - very cheap

4) Continuous stirring is your friend for effeciency in BIAB, this doesn't seem to work to well with recirc (well mine anyway) - my next mod is to try continuous stirring for first 30 mins of mash and then recirc for clarity.

5) The clarity after recirc is surprisingly good (better than pull and squeeze) but if you can't help squeezing (which I can't) there is no major difference.

Hope this helps some.
WW.


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## Bribie G

I looked at the same type of system last year, and made up a design with a march pump, inner sleeve with a false bottom and a two way ball valve coming out of the urn. Left branch into the march pump, right branch into a silicone hose into the cube / chiller. After checking out the prices, I just bought a second urn and now do double batches easily, by staggering the start time of the two urns by 30 minutes to spread the activity load. 

I wasn't going to use a PID, just keep an eye on the temperature using a probe with the wort out of the pump flooding round it and manually stop or start the urn element. I decided on the inner sleeve because (as discussed with TB at the time), you can't really get a grain bed - as such - in a bag as the wort is always looking for the path of least resistance and will flow out of the sides etc. With an urn, a modified Bunnings handi pail would make a good starting point. 

I think the insistence on bright wort _into_ the kettle is at the heart of Braumeister because it's the way the do things in that country - Vorlauf etc. However it's not an issue with UK style beers that I mostly make, and whilst the wort into the kettle is not clear, my wort out of the kettle into the cube is bright, and I run into Schott Bottles until it _is_ running bright, so get virtually nil hot break into the cube. I've cranked out a couple of traditional style Euro Lagers / Pilseners for the forthcoming comps rounds using bog standard BIAB, so time will tell. :icon_cheers:


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## Malted

Is it cool to dob in someone else without their permission? (even if I have done it before?)



Ghetto Braumeister er I mean homemade BIAB on steroids built by Gopha:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry782279 POST #20


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## aaronpetersen

Bizier said:


> PID - $26ish



I'm a complete electronic ignoramus so excuse me if this is a stupid question, but is that PID up to the task? The relay contact load is stated as: 250V AC / 3A, 250V AC / 1A. I have no idea why there are two sets of numbers, but I thought it would have to be able to switch ~240V / 10A to run that 2200W element. If they are suitable then I'd certainly be tempted to buy one.
Any idea if that pump is food grade?


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## Bizier

AaronP said:


> I'm a complete electronic ignoramus so excuse me if this is a stupid question, but is that PID up to the task? The relay contact load is stated as: 250V AC / 3A, 250V AC / 1A. I have no idea why there are two sets of numbers, but I thought it would have to be able to switch ~240V / 10A to run that 2200W element. If they are suitable then I'd certainly be tempted to buy one.
> Any idea if that pump is food grade?



PID switches a relay with control current - relay is rated for element (preferrably overspecced) and switches element.


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## Bizier

I guess people are right re: malt pipe vs bag, but it could still totally be done. Surely there is some cheap SS open ended sleeve thing out there that would fit inside the bag.

I say screw watching temps. PID is money well spent on saved labour.


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## Florian

I've posted it before but I'll post it again in case you haven't seen it yet. Might give you some ideas regarding malt pipe, hop feeder and programming.

http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBo...ad&tid=4639

Happy to translate if need be.


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## Malted

Florian said:


> I've posted it before but I'll post it again in case you haven't seen it yet. Might give you some ideas regarding malt pipe, hop feeder and programming.
> 
> http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBo...ad&tid=4639
> 
> Happy to translate if need be.




I find Google translate gets close enough for me to trawl through the hobbybrauer forum...

Edit: I have looked at that link othertimes you have posted. It is a very impressive homemade jobby.


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## aaronpetersen

Bizier said:


> PID switches a relay with control current - relay is rated for element (preferrably overspecced) and switches element.



Thanks for clearing that up for me.


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## ArnieW

I've been brewing with this kind of rig for a while now. I wouldn't go back to three vessel unless there was something very specific (like parti-gyle) that can't be done with single vessel. Yorg and a few other guys are building similar rigs too.

cheers, Arnie

BrauBushka blog


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## Bizier

Arnie, that is awesome, seriously. And Florian I had looked at that rig as well, but it is kinda more tricked out than I am talking. And... it fails the criteria: neither system is remotely ghetto.

The thing that I the main driver of the thread was that it could be done very cheaply and easily without too many tools (i.e. those who are above ground floor and shedless). And if the brewer paid the extra for the Auber PID, then they have programmable step mashing etc. with what is essentially a slightly overgrown kitchen implement.

I am sure there is some op-shop SS flour sifter or something which could be a malt pipe.


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## Thirsty Boy

You dont need a malt pipe - your original proposition of just a false bottom to keep the bag off the element and drawing the wort from under the FB. Then pull bag as per normal BIAB. The only reason you would want a malt pipe type device is if you wanted the wort clarity that people tend to expect from a re-circulating system. If however you were willing to accept the proposition that a cloudy wort is not necessarily a bad wort (pre boil) then all you need is to add a pump and an FB to an urn and you are more or less done.... A PID if you want tighter control over teh temp than the urns native controller will give you.

As someone pointed out earlier... You'll get better wort clarity by recurculation... But it will get all messed up pulling the bag. Certainly if you give it a squeeze.

A malt pipe type arrangement gives you a more solid thing to hold together the grain bed you build up, hold it together while you pull the grain out of the liquid. If you use a sleeve with perforations only at teh bottom rather than a seive with holes at the bottom and up the sides, it will also allow you to conduct an effective sparge, because the sparge liquid "must" travel through the grain bed to exit, rather than being able to simply follow the path of least resistance out the side holes. But... It only matters if you want the wort clarity or are sure you want to be able to sparge.

If you were going to use an external controller - then a pre-built urn is probably a waste of money given that you wouldn't be using its controller - however it seems you can buy aftermarket concealed elements from crown urns. Smoeone here on AHB installed one in a converted keg. Beautiful fit, flush bottom, easy to clean - magnificent.

Keg goes ontop of a few inches worth of cabinet to house the pump and controller. Whole device has the footprint of a converted keg and only a few inches higher. perfect.

The elements were about $65
A PID for $35
March pump about $200
Various bibs and bobs of plumbing and electrics $100
keg to convert for the price that people usually pay for kegs......

Get the whole thing built for under $400

A link to the crown element mash tun install by the ingenious Jackson. Simply plopping a BIAB bag in his exact rig would be more or less what has been talked about in this thread. Just need to tidy the pump/controller set-up so the unit is a one piece bit of gear.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=741566

And where he bought the element from

http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ClassHTML/175.htm


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## Zizzle

I've been toying with the idea for a while, but lacked the time before the brewbot contest entry was due.

Now that I've got it back, I've begun building a ghetto peristaltic pump to give it a try.

http://zizzle-brewbot.blogspot.com/2011/06...rade-plans.html

Does anyone have a good feel for how many times I should be aiming to recirculate the full volume of wort?


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## ArnieW

Bizier said:


> Arnie, that is awesome, seriously. And Florian I had looked at that rig as well, but it is kinda more tricked out than I am talking. And... it fails the criteria: neither system is remotely ghetto.
> 
> The thing that I the main driver of the thread was that it could be done very cheaply and easily without too many tools (i.e. those who are above ground floor and shedless). And if the brewer paid the extra for the Auber PID, then they have programmable step mashing etc. with what is essentially a slightly overgrown kitchen implement.
> 
> I am sure there is some op-shop SS flour sifter or something which could be a malt pipe.


I look forward to hearing how you go with this. I'm actually in the middle of simplifying my machine a bit more - getting rid of the auto ball valves and just having a pump to recirc and another ball valve to fill to fermenter. I am lucky to have a good shed. cheers.


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## Bizier

No, Arnie, I'm making a trad 3v system, and have long set sail on that trajectory. This is purely musing. I'm sure I could build one just from spare parts I have, but a second system would be silly, though I've thought about a really small pilot system for kooky ideas, so perhaps this could come in there.


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## RobB

Bizier said:


> ...........I am sure there is some op-shop SS flour sifter or something which could be a malt pipe.



How about those cheap 19 litre SS pots which pop up occasionally in Big W and camping stores (generally around $20)? Take a drill to the bottom and there's your malt pipe.........maybe.


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## RobB

Just thinking out loud here, but how about:





(Warning: may contain traces of voile)

A tap in the bucket could remain closed during the recirculating mash and the be opened once the bucket is raised.

It looks like it might work, but I'm sure someone will point out a major flaw.


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## Bizier

That is pretty much like my sketches, except for the closed base of the inner vessel. I inherently like the downward flow through grain for minimum oxygen pickup (so it is not creating a 'waterfall'), it just makes for a neat circular loop. My understanding is that the actual Braumeister uses the upward flow through the grain because the plumbing doesn't run on the outside of the vessel.

ED: I don't see any reason to change direction of flow with your 'tap on bucket' idea, it seems most logical to me to recirculate and drain in one constant direction to ensure that your last mash runnings also will be clear. Additionally if the centre vessel drains from the base, then you can set the height so that the base is only just submerged to minimise O2 pickup.

I am really tempted to make a little pilot brewery with this idea. Perhaps just enough finished volume to fill a 9L keg.


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## matho

I'm almost finished making my little (10l) braumeister will post all the info when finished






cheers matho


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## ArnieW

matho said:


> I'm almost finished making my little (10l) braumeister will post all the info when finished
> 
> 
> View attachment 47490
> 
> 
> 
> cheers matho


Nice... look forward to details Matho,

cheers, Arnie


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## RobB

Bizier said:


> That is pretty much like my sketches, except for the closed base of the inner vessel. I inherently like the downward flow through grain for minimum oxygen pickup (so it is not creating a 'waterfall'), it just makes for a neat circular loop. My understanding is that the actual Braumeister uses the upward flow through the grain because the plumbing doesn't run on the outside of the vessel.
> 
> ED: I don't see any reason to change direction of flow with your 'tap on bucket' idea, it seems most logical to me to recirculate and drain in one constant direction to ensure that your last mash runnings also will be clear. Additionally if the centre vessel drains from the base, then you can set the height so that the base is only just submerged to minimise O2 pickup.
> 
> I am really tempted to make a little pilot brewery with this idea. Perhaps just enough finished volume to fill a 9L keg.



Perhaps a hole drilled in the side of the bucket - above the bag, but below the outer wort level - would prevent the waterfall effect.

If you want to knock together a test model, we live about 15 minutes apart and I have a 20 litre urn which you can borrow.


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## datamike

matho said:


> I'm almost finished making my little (10l) braumeister will post all the info when finished
> 
> 
> View attachment 47490
> 
> 
> 
> cheers matho




That looks great! Be sure and post the specifics.

I am in the planning stages of something similar, but with a built-in cooling jacket.

Nice work!

Michael


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## Bizier

Cooling jacket?

Are you fermenting in the vessel as well, or are you using the jacket as a wort chiller to get it to pitching temp?


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## datamike

Bizier said:


> Cooling jacket?
> 
> Are you fermenting in the vessel as well, or are you using the jacket as a wort chiller to get it to pitching temp?



Not fermenting in it. Just chilling the wort, as with the Braumeister 200L. Just want to build a smaller, cheaper version.

Michael


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## pimpsqueak

WhiteWolf said:


> 3) Go to a chinese pot store and they have SS steamer inserts (you are meant to use a trivet in chinese cooking but I use 3 x long SS bolts) that you can use as a false bottom - very cheap



What exactly do you mean by a Chinese Pot Store? I'd really like a false bottom but I can never find one big enough.


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## Tim F

I'm making a 15L stovetop herms at the moment - would be easy to pick up a $10 Kmart 10L stock pot, drill holes in the bottom and use that for a malt pipe - would that work? I was just sitting here thinking about my false bottom/options so this was good timing


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## Thirsty Boy

Malty Cultural said:


> Just thinking out loud here, but how about:
> 
> View attachment 47489
> 
> 
> (Warning: may contain traces of voile)
> 
> A tap in the bucket could remain closed during the recirculating mash and the be opened once the bucket is raised.
> 
> It looks like it might work, but I'm sure someone will point out a major flaw.



Whats the purpose of the inside bucket? It looks like the system would perform perfectly well without it.


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## hsb

Couldn't you just run off into a bucket, remove the grain, then boil in the same vessel, negating the need for any kind of bag/hoist etc?
Not as neat, not BIAB or Braumeister though, just looking in form outside some of these BIAB solutions can seem like a complex answer to a simple problem IMPIO (in my poorly informed opinion)


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## RobB

Thirsty Boy said:


> Whats the purpose of the inside bucket? It looks like the system would perform perfectly well without it.


Good point. Perhaps I'm guilty of trying too hard to replicate the Speidel, rather than replicate what it does.

I had thought that the raised bucket would offer an easy way of performing a flood sparge, but BIAB is giving me 80% efficiency into the kettle anyway, so perhaps there's no point.

Since I'm happy with my efficiency and I get good clarity with a combination of whirlfloc and patience, I'm not sure how much I would gain from recirculation, but it's fun to think it through. I think the biggest attraction for me would be the ability to dial in temperature steps, but there are other ways I could approach this.


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## dent

hsb said:


> Couldn't you just run off into a bucket, remove the grain, then boil in the same vessel, negating the need for any kind of bag/hoist etc?
> Not as neat, not BIAB or Braumeister though, just looking in form outside some of these BIAB solutions can seem like a complex answer to a simple problem IMPIO (in my poorly informed opinion)




I have built one like this for a mate of mine, it works pretty well. It was built in a 50L keg, with stainless braid for the manifold - so you could optionally use gas to get to mash temp, or recirculate with a heat exchanger. Run off into a bucket, clean out the mash vessel and remove the braid (so it doesn't get clagged with hops) and pour the contents of the bucket back in for the boil. Works great.


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## datamike

Not sure if this has been posted before....

An Italian homebrewer is attempting a Braumeister clone. 

Sketchy google translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...26prmd%3Divnsfd

Michael


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## Jazzafish

datamike said:


> Not sure if this has been posted before....
> 
> An Italian homebrewer is attempting a Braumeister clone.
> 
> Sketchy google translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...26prmd%3Divnsfd
> 
> Michael



Inspirational... very home brewer. I love this part of the hobby, the whole mentality of _"I could buy one painlessly in time when the cash/brownie points are together, but I'd rather make one from scratch with blood, sweat and tears."_ Makes it more rewarding and valuable.


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## ArnieW

datamike said:


> Not sure if this has been posted before....
> 
> An Italian homebrewer is attempting a Braumeister clone.
> 
> Sketchy google translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...26prmd%3Divnsfd
> 
> Michael


And for a version in English, with a bunch of others working on this project ...

Braumeister clone


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## datamike

Jazzafish said:


> Inspirational... very home brewer. I love this part of the hobby, the whole mentality of _"I could buy one painlessly in time when the cash/brownie points are together, but I'd rather make one from scratch with blood, sweat and tears."_ Makes it more rewarding and valuable.




Inspirational indeed! I bet he gets it to work. I am not sure about the recirculating up through the malt pipe - not sure of the advantage, and it seems like lots of disadvantages in the engineering. 

I'll be following this.

Michael


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## scott_penno

Bizier said:


> Pump - $35 ish



Is that pump rated to temperatures of hot wort (100oC+) and food grade? I can't find any references to the fact that it is and as it appears to be a pool/spa pump, wonder whether it's food grade...

sap.


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## Bizier

sappas said:


> Is that pump rated to temperatures of hot wort (100oC+) and food grade? I can't find any references to the fact that it is and as it appears to be a pool/spa pump, wonder whether it's food grade...
> 
> sap.


http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtop...f=2&t=32137
I am pretty sure it is the same as the one as mentioned above. I bought one from the UK seller.

I was just making suggestions for one scenario based on bare minimum financial outlay. There are a lot of people using the cheap little brown plastic pump, so it would fit into the 'ghetto' mini system, and others have been testing it for a while. Is it perfect? No. Is it cheap, small and workable? Yes. 

For the record I also have a March pump (and I am looking to offload a second one), but I feel that it is a bit of overkill, especially on a small system. If anyone wants to go down the path of paying extra for the best available parts, more power to them.

ED: Ha, we could go even smaller: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-Water-Coff...=item3a603d23d9


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## Tim F

Bizier said:


> ED: Ha, we could go even smaller: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mini-Water-Coff...=item3a603d23d9



That is seriously awesome - think it would be enough flow rate for a 15L system? Although I guess it isn't a ton cheaper than the other cheap one posted here.

They have bulk buy pricing...... B)


So in a proper braumeister does the mash take place in the malt pipe with no liquid draining to the larger pot during mashing?


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## datamike

Tim F said:


> That is seriously awesome - think it would be enough flow rate for a 15L system? Although I guess it isn't a ton cheaper than the other cheap one posted here.
> 
> They have bulk buy pricing...... B)
> 
> 
> So in a proper braumeister does the mash take place in the malt pipe with no liquid draining to the larger pot during mashing?



No. The grain is in the tube. A pump pushes the wort up through the tube (and grain) and spills over the top edge. It's a simple recirc, but up through the grain instead of down.

I've attached a sketch of how it works. I didn't create the sketch. I saved it off another forum, but can't remember which one. Hopefully the author won't mind. 

Michael


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## Tim F

Gotcha cheers!


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## kymba

Thought i'd post up a progress report - so far i have picked up the following to run both a kettle element and a non-march pump

kettle element - $9 crazy clarks
pump - $150 CB
REX C-100 pid - $0.90 US +$25US Delivery
SSR - $14 clints components
old cpu heatsink & fan for SSR - free (pay later with beer)
housing - $5 bunnings
illuminated switches - 2 @ $9 jaycar
flat mount sockets - 2 @ $7 jaycar
terminal strip - $2 jaycar
200mm 304SS thermowell - $20 ozsolar
cable glands - 4 @ $2.50 jaycar

things I already had:
12v DC transformer (phone charger to run heatsink fan)
thermal paste
extension cords
spade plugs for wiring into the switches
hx pot
hx stand (a bucket)
copper pipe

other bits:
2 banana binding terminals - $4 jaycar
extra thermocouple wire - $9 jaycar
extra spade plugs - $5 jaycar

things left to do - install banana terminals for TC, wind the hx coil and initialise the PID

not as ghetto as it could be - comes in at about $300


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## Tanga

Very pretty, much better looking than I thought she'd end up. Can't wait to see her in action.

Sooo not ghetto though, haven't included the cost of the pots yet. =p But I imagine it could be done cheaper. Using one of those coffee pumps would half the cost if it could recirc fast enough. Hell, use 2.


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## Bizier

So when are you putting a HERMS coil into that pot Kymba?  It looks kinda like my current HX setup.


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## kymba

Tanga said:


> Very pretty, much better looking than I thought she'd end up. Can't wait to see her in action.
> 
> Sooo not ghetto though, haven't included the cost of the pots yet. =p But I imagine it could be done cheaper. Using one of those coffee pumps would half the cost if it could recirc fast enough. Hell, use 2.


yeah the pot was free - from the kitchen! I decided to go the exxy pump as i want to move near boiling liquid through it too



Bizier said:


> So when are you putting a HERMS coil into that pot Kymba?  It looks kinda like my current HX setup.


just gotta wind the coil really, maybe within the year

trying to figure out this PID business first


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## Spork

Quick question, and don't want to make a new threat as it (sort of) ties in with this one.
Can anyone tell me how accurate the thermostat on a crown urn is?
Can I just set it it 65-66c, after heating the water to strike temp, and leave it during the mash, or would I get better control using an STC 1000 (or PID - but I already have STC 1000) and it's temp probe to control the urn?


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## vykuza

I don't have a Crown, but my Birko is only accurate-ish at best. Maybe 3-5deg? Probably not good enough for brewing. I would definitely use an STC-1000 or PID.

Edit: Maybe throw a therm in there to test it with a couple of litres of water?


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## Spork

Nick R said:


> I don't have a Crown, but my Birko is only accurate-ish at best. Maybe 3-5deg? Probably not good enough for brewing. I would definitely use an STC-1000 or PID.
> 
> Edit: Maybe throw a therm in there to test it with a couple of litres of water?




Thanks Nick, will do that next time.
Did my first brew in it today and got terrible efficiency.
Next time I think I'll sparge.

Nevermind.

Dr Smurtos Light GA!
Will be perfect to drink during a brew day.


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## Malted

Tanga said:


> Sooo not ghetto though


 :icon_offtopic: 
Pray tell, what are your criteria dear Tanga? 

Should it wear hubcaps as a hat? 
Should it wear disposable shopping bags (difficult in SA) over its feet? 
Should it know at least three different strokes to be used when dumpster diving? 
Should it push about its lifes possessions (or stuff gathered from the dumpster) in a shopping cart? 
Should it mumble, talk and fart to itself such that it is indistinguishable as to which is which?
Should it make unwashed hippies complain about it's body odour? 

And I assume you also want to make Ghetto beer?


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## crozdog

just found these stainless steel MUST BASKETs / SCREENs which may be of interest to the BIAB community - http://www.wems.com.au/stainless-steel-sup...et--screen.html

or look in their calalogue http://www.wems.com.au/WEMSCatalogue.pdf lots of good gear ;-) 

1.5 hole x 200 dia x 500 high MUSTB2H500 is probably the best.... they do custom work too. Guess someone like Beerbelly could make em too...

dunno about pricing
no affiliation blah blah


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## Tanga

Malted said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> Pray tell, what are your criteria dear Tanga?
> 
> Should it wear hubcaps as a hat?
> Should it wear disposable shopping bags (difficult in SA) over its feet?
> Should it know at least three different strokes to be used when dumpster diving?
> Should it push about its lifes possessions (or stuff gathered from the dumpster) in a shopping cart?
> Should it mumble, talk and fart to itself such that it is indistinguishable as to which is which?
> Should it make unwashed hippies complain about it's body odour?
> 
> And I assume you also want to make Ghetto beer?



Laaaawl. I was thinking cost under 100 bucks to start, but hubcaps as a hat would work.


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## Bizier

OK,

Seeing as my three tier build seems to be a little on the backburner until my new job is settled in, I have taken it on myself to start on my Ghettomeister build.

Yesterday I got:
19L pot from Big W - $19
15L pot from Kmart - $15
2 Ball valves from Bunnings - ~$5 ea
Female T piece, M nipple, 2 hosetails from Tradelink - ~$11
2 backnuts from Reece - $12 (criminal IMO)

most everything else I have on hand:
Element
Pump
PID
PT100 probe
SSR
All-thread pipe
Compression fittings and olives
I should have some 12mm copper for a pickup

I will still need some little bits and bobs, but the vast majority is sorted:
Possibly an RCD
Switches and light
12v 0.5A power supply for pump
Enclosure
Insulation

This morning's progress:
Note that the common SS sheathed element _only just_ fits into the 19L pot - once the nut is tightened to compress the silicone washer, it just frees up the other end of the element to allow it to wiggle. I had to shoehorn this thing in.






















I installed the probe over the element in an attempt to measure the hottest part of the liquor, these were placed as low as possible in the kettle. The handles on the 15L pot magically just clear the probe, which is nice. I am unsure what the mash solids and liquids capacity will be yet. I figure I should get 9L (half keg) finished volume of decent gravity pretty easily using this setup, which will allow for some experimentation. Because I am drawing from the liquor reserve and pumping into the mash, it should mean that if the mash gets stuck, it should just overflow the top vessel back down into the reserve again without starving the pump. I am considering drilling a hole either side, between the handles to force it to drain from a clean point in the event of an overflow.

I am still deciding whether to continue searching for perforated stainless, just drill a million holes in the base, or rely on an inner bag for particle regulation. That is basically a decending list of my preference.


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## keifer33

That is looking sweet Bizier, will have to check it out in action once you've got it all up and running, get my head around some of this automation stuff. Then order all the parts if yours works out


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## Tim F

Bizier said:


> Because I am drawing from the liquor reserve and pumping into the mash, it should mean that if the mash gets stuck, it should just overflow the top vessel back down into the reserve again without starving the pump. I am considering drilling a hole either side, between the handles to force it to drain from a clean point in the event of an overflow.
> 
> I am still deciding whether to continue searching for perforated stainless, just drill a million holes in the base, or rely on an inner bag for particle regulation. That is basically a decending list of my preference.



We're thinking along the same lines! I am going to drill a hole just below the level of the outer pot in case of stuck mash.

I called around a few local metal suppliers and noone would sell me a piece of perforated stainless with the right size holes unless I got a 1m2 sheet for $300 odd. I am either drilling the pot or else cutting out the bottom of the pot and riveting in a piece of stainless that I drilled myself but like you say there is a shitload of holes required. If it wasn't for having access to a cnc router I wouldn't consider it.

2 other ideas I thought about - either cut slots in the pot bottom with an angle grinder, or cut out the bottom and just use fly screen style mesh?

Are you going to recirc during/after the boil to whirlpool or chill? If so what are you planning to stop hops going through the pump? I'm thinking of having the grain pot sit on another false bottom in the kettle - then I could put an element under the FB too.


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## matho

RS components sells 0.5m x 0.5m 0.55mm thick 3mm perf 304 Stainless steel sheet for $60 each unfortunately the minimum order is 2 

RS components

the good thing is free delivery australia wide

Looks good bizier, i must have missed your post, you have got to love those 19l pots 

cheers matho


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## aaronpetersen

Tim F said:


> We're thinking along the same lines! I am going to drill a hole just below the level of the outer pot in case of stuck mash.
> 
> I called around a few local metal suppliers and noone would sell me a piece of perforated stainless with the right size holes unless I got a 1m2 sheet for $300 odd. I am either drilling the pot or else cutting out the bottom of the pot and riveting in a piece of stainless that I drilled myself but like you say there is a shitload of holes required. If it wasn't for having access to a cnc router I wouldn't consider it.
> 
> 2 other ideas I thought about - either cut slots in the pot bottom with an angle grinder, or cut out the bottom and just use fly screen style mesh?
> 
> Are you going to recirc during/after the boil to whirlpool or chill? If so what are you planning to stop hops going through the pump? I'm thinking of having the grain pot sit on another false bottom in the kettle - then I could put an element under the FB too.



I've been thinking about using one of those stainless steel fry pan splatter guards as a hop screen/false bottom. I reckon you could also use one on the bottom of your inner vessel. Just cut the bottom of the inner vessel out and leave a lip for the splatter guard to sit on. You may need to reinforce the splatter guard as they may not be strong enough to support the weight of the grain when you lift out the inner vessel.


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## Florian

That's exactly what I would do. You get them for a few bucks from ikea or kmart and they are pretty strong, but maybe a bit of strong wire to support could help. They would fit well into matho's malt pipe design (in his thread). 
I think I had once linked to a german forum (in the impressive? Yes... Thread) where they used the ikea ones on the original BM instead of the fabric filter.
I have two lying around but haven't used them yet.


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## Tim F

If you used a mesh screen like that you could just drill or even jigsaw big holes in the pot leaving enough structure to reinforce the mesh.


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## matho

its funny how we all think the same
i was also going to try using the mesh out of an ikea splater guard, my bottom filter needs to be raised by about 5mm to clear the outlet and seal so i was going to sandwich the mesh between two stainless steel sheets cut out like this




bizier if your going to use a bag, you could always get something like this




its very thin stainless steel so you would need to cut out the bottom of the pot like the drawing above, the holes in it are about 6mm in diameter, the bag would be the filter and this would just be a support, i bought one from a hospitality store in campsie for about $20 

cheers matho


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## Bizier

Tim F said:


> Are you going to recirc during/after the boil to whirlpool or chill? If so what are you planning to stop hops going through the pump?



In short, yes, though honestly I had not thought about ramifications of hop trub on the little brown wonderpump. I guess I can use braid or something to filter, or even a motorised stirrer on lid for whirlpool action.



> If you used a mesh screen like that you could just drill or even jigsaw big holes in the pot leaving enough structure to reinforce the mesh.


I was thinking of cutting out four sections, leaving a cross shape in the bottom, which also allows you to have a bolt which holds your mesh down to avoid movement when you are poking around in there mid-mash.

SS Perf is not ghetto, but Ikea frying pan cover thing totally makes the cut


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## ausdb

datamike said:


> No. The grain is in the tube. A pump pushes the wort up through the tube (and grain) and spills over the top edge. It's a simple recirc, but up through the grain instead of down.
> 
> I've attached a sketch of how it works. I didn't create the sketch. I saved it off another forum, but can't remember which one. Hopefully the author won't mind.
> 
> Michael


Geez I wish I had a beer for every time my sketch has been posted on the net!
FWIW it actually originated on AHB a few years ago in the original Allinone thread.

I really must get round to trying to make my own version one day soon.


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## seemax

another option I found on ebay for a false bottom are these stainless sieves, available in sizes up to 350mm
would be easy enough to mount this to the inner or outer edge of the grain pot

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sieve-300mm-Fin...=item3f04086c2d


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## aaronpetersen

seemax said:


> another option I found on ebay for a false bottom are these stainless sieves, available in sizes up to 350mm
> would be easy enough to mount this to the inner or outer edge of the grain pot
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sieve-300mm-Fin...=item3f04086c2d



Geez, nothing ghetto about their prices!


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## Spoonta

ausdb said:


> Geez I wish I had a beer for every time my sketch has been posted on the net!
> FWIW it actually originated on AHB a few years ago in the original Allinone thread.
> 
> I really must get round to trying to make my own version one day soon.




hes back how are you mate :icon_offtopic:


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## pimpsqueak

AaronP said:


> Geez, nothing ghetto about their prices!


I have one you can have for $20 :icon_cheers:


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## Tim F

Hows the build going Bizier?


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## Bizier

Busy with work, will try to get to ikea fri or sat, asian grocers last week drew a blank on cheap screens. I'm still looking for an enclosure, thinking about even culinary plasticware. I how to break it in over weekend.


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## Tim F

I've seen those mesh splatter guards just in the kitchenware section at the supermarket. I just decided to go with RS components from Mathos link above though, $80 odd for 2 x 500mm2 sheets of perforated stainless with 2mm holes including overnight courier. Stretching 'ghetto' but not too far at $40 per sheet.


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## AlexL

I'm currently in the process of getting mine sorted out. I've gone with a Brewtroller control system and a 32L main pot and a 15L malt tube. I have a standard kettle element sitting around - is there any issues with scorching the wort due to th concentrated heat in the element?


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## wobbly

If you use two say 2400w elements connected in series the end result is 1200w total and only 5 amps. (Ohms Law) 

You could then connect a switch across one of the elements so that when it is in the "ON" position it shorts (bypasses) that element and the remaining element is now on full power deliverying 2400w and drawing 10 amps.

If you didn't have room or didn't want to put a second element into the MT/Boiler you could make up a switch box to use external to the MT/Boiler and use say your kitchen kettle as the second element.

Same principle in that the wiring of the switch box would have an incomming lead that was wired to a couple of plug recepticles such that they would effectively be wired in series and the switch would be connected across the output terminals of one of the plug recepticles to "sort it out" when turned on.

Plug the urn into one of the plug recepticles (the one that doesn't have the switch connected across it) and the kettle into the other. Now with the "switch OFF" both the urn element and kettle element will be operting in series and the net effect will be that the element in the urn is only producing 600w into the MT and at the same time the kettle element will be producing 600w just don't forget to fill the jug before turning the power on!!!(total circuit wattage 1200w) 

This sort of arrangement (Low watts) could work well for any BIAB set up to maintain the mash temperature without the risk of burning/scortching your bag or scortching the wort.

If/when you want to ramp up the temperature in the MT to become say the boiler just turn the "switch ON" which will "short out" (turn off) the kettle element and return the urn element to 2400w

Cheers

Wobbly


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## kymba

while not exactly a braumeister, it is def ghetto. I gave her 2 runs yesterday, both 7L batches

the mash process was: mash in - set PID to 69, tip in grains, stir, set PID to 66, leave for an hour, set pid to 78, recirc for 10 mins then relocate return manifold into kettle. switch off pump, drain bag & remainder of wort in MT into 5L jug

i wanted to use stainless for the hx coil & return manifold but can't do that for a while so i just got 2 rolls of 3m copper from bunnings instead. 1 roll was used in the HX, and while it worked fine for the 7L batch, i think i might put another 3m in there for big batches

the return manifold has 3mm holes (prob. 10 or so?) and seemed to mix the mash up a bit. I just used a capillary tee to join it together. The silicon hose fits tight onto the stem of the tee, no hose clamp needed

I didn't lag the mash tun on purpose, just to see how the hx stood up to the task. once i have the 2nd coil in there i'll hard plumb the inlet & outlet into the wall of the HX so i can put the lid on and limit the faffing about trying to prime the pump. a ramp/soak PID would work so well here - this is my long term goal

behold the crapness!


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## Tim F

nice one! You might have better luck using a smaller hex pot than more copper, I have 2m in 1.5 vessel and ramp at 4c/min when heating the strike water.


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## kymba

great idea tim. be fkd i'f drilling another pot though, so next time i'll pack around the inside wall with a layer or two of polystyrene or something


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## kymba

these have been kegged for a week, and i'm having one now. delicious. dunno if the controller had anything to do with it, but it sure made it easier!

so much easier in fact that i pulled a decoction on a 100% vienna marzen/fest ale i brewed last weekend. had so much time on my hands i could handle the 2 mashes and a 6 month old

definitely recommend getting one!


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## aaronpetersen

Bump. Did you get a chance to finish this Bizier?


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## Bizier

Nope, my new (not so new now) job has me trying to brew as big a batch as possible whenever I can seize the opportunity. I'll try to get to it later in year, need to work on big rig first.


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