# First recipe - Simco/Mosaic pale ale



## TheApathyParty (28/3/14)

Hi all, 

I've put together my first recipe for a Simcoe/Mosaic pale ale, trying to use the Simcoe as the backbone and highlight the mosaic (then for the next one, swap them over and highlight the Simcoe)
I've never used either hop, so I was hoping someone with some experience could tell me if I was on the right track

Recipe from Brew Pal:

AG Pale Ale
American Pale Ale
23 litres
All Grain
1.055~OG → 1.012~FG → 5.7%ABV	37 IBU	6.0°L SRM
Yeast
Fermentis - Safale US-05
US-05 - Safale US-05
Fermentis (Ale)	5 mlitres 


Fermentables
5.5 kilograms
Maris Otter
37ppg, 4°L	5 kilograms 
90.9% 
Wheat
37ppg, 2°L	0.5 kilograms 
9.1% 

Hops
92 grams
Mosaic
12%, Pellet	50 grams 

Simcoe
13%, Pellet	42 grams 


Miscellaneous
7 mlitres
Wort Chiller
Other 

Gelatin
Fining	7 mlitres 


Brew In A Bag
1 hour, 32.58 litres
Unknown Mash Type
Mosaic
First Wort Hop	5 grams 

Simcoe
First Wort Hop	15 grams 


Boil
1 hour, 26.61 litres

Mosaic hops
12%, Pellet	5 grams 
60 minutes (+0) 
Simcoe hops
13%, Pellet	10 grams 
60 minutes (+0) 
Mosaic hops
12%, Pellet	5 grams 
15 minutes (+45) 

Wort Chiller	15 minutes (+45) 
Mosaic hops
12%, Pellet	15 grams 
0 minutes (+60) 
Simcoe hops
13%, Pellet	7 grams 
0 minutes (+60) 

Ferment
13 days, single stage
Start fermentation
17°C 
13 days (+0 days) 

Mosaic hops
12%, Pellet	20 grams 
3 days (+10 days) 
Simcoe hops
13%, Pellet	10 grams 
3 days (+10 days) 
Gelatin
Fining	7 mlitres 
1 day (+12 days) 
Notes


As you can see here, I've got both First Wort Hops and 60 min. boil hops. Is this a bit too much? Looks like having both pushes the IBU up to the higher end for a Pale Ale. 

Thanks


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## Dan Pratt (28/3/14)

Hi,

If Simcoe is the biterness backbone and the Mosaic the highlight then I would do the following:

Simcoe - FWH
Simcoe - 60min
Simcoe - 30mins
Mosaic - 10mins
Mosaic - 5mins
Mosaic - 0mins ( flamout hopstand or whirlpool for 10mins )

Dry hopped with Mosaic - id go 2-3g/L of wort for 5-7days

This should see you getting a solid Simcoe bitterness and Mosaic for Flavour and Aroma.

You may want to consider either just FWH or a 60mins addition as they would counter each other, see FWH is used to round out the bitterness making it less harsh and a 60mins addition is to get firm bitterness which is percieved as harsher or more bitter.

What ibu were you aiming for?


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## Yob (28/3/14)

^^^ what he said, too much simcoe will dominate, that said go hard late with the mosaic, it's a fantastic late / dry hopper, and so is simcoe so your swap is gunna yield great results.. Go for it


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## TheApathyParty (28/3/14)

Thanks for the advice, guys. I was kind of hedging my bets, doubling up on FWH and 60min. additions and using both hops at every stage in different ratios.
I was thinking something like 30-40 IBU, don't want to push up in to IPA territory but still want it to be hoppy.


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## TheApathyParty (29/3/14)

How does this look?

Mosaic/Simcoe Pale Ale
American Pale Ale
All Grain (23.02 l) ABV: 5.30 %
OG: 1.049 SG FG: 1.008 SG
IBUs: 36.5 IBUs Color: 8.8 EBC
By: 
Ingredients


5.00 kg - Pale Malt, Maris Otter

Mash addition (90.9%) - 5.9 EBC



0.50 kg - Wheat, Flaked

Mash addition (9.1%) - 3.2 EBC



10.0 g - Simcoe

Boil 60 min (13.5 IBUs)



15.0 g - Simcoe

Boil 30 min (15.5 IBUs)



10.0 g - Mosaic

Boil 10 min (4.1 IBUs)



15.0 g - Mosaic

Boil 5 min (3.4 IBUs)



20.0 g - Mosaic

Steep 20 min (0.0 IBUs)



1 pkg - American Ale

Wyeast Labs #1056



15.0 g - Mosaic

Dry Hop 5 days



15.0 g - Mosaic

Dry Hop 2 days


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## Dan Pratt (29/3/14)

That looks good.

Dont be shy with the mosaic dry hop, id go 28g then another 28g.


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## TheApathyParty (29/3/14)

Ok thanks Pratty, it's mashing right now!


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## TheApathyParty (29/3/14)

So I had a few issues (Keggle started leaking, frantic emergency repairs!) and I ended up with 19L of wort, rather than 23. I can live with that. 
I added 1/2 tablet of Whirfloc at 10 min from end of boil, expecting the bulk of the sediment to drop out. What I saw was the sediment form distinct clouds, which dropped below the surface as I cooled the wort (no wort chiller, so I wet down the outside of the kettle, then when it was a bit cooler I transferred to the fermenter which I sat in a tub and surrounded in tap water. Currently in the fermenter, in a fridge, still haven't pitched yeast as it is still too hot...)
I tried to make a whirlpool to force the sediment to the bottom of the kettle, but still ended up with a heap of sediment in the fermenter. Is this to be expected, or have i done something wrong?


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## Dan Pratt (1/4/14)

It sounds like you have no chilled into the fermenter?


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## TheApathyParty (1/4/14)

I guess something like that. I don't have a chiller, so I tried to cool the wort as much as I could but I didn't reach pitching temps for a few hours. Will gelatine help clear it up further? Also, should I transfer to a secondary fermenter?


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## Tahoose (1/4/14)

As long as you skimmed all of the crap off the top at the start of the boil (the hot break), then all of that sediment in your fermenter is cold break and shouldn't effect your beer (if so only slightly).

But this is another one of these topics that has many people divided, I'm still new to brewing and going off what I have read, cold break for me isn't an issue.

Sounds like you might need to have a read on the no chill process, it's pretty simple. And if your after cubes for the no chill process I'm sure your LHBS may have some, or bunnings does, or even better, you could get a Fresh Wort Kit from craftbrewer up there and re use the cube.. Just think of it as buying a cube with free wort.


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## TheApathyParty (1/4/14)

I didn't skim anything off the boil, I have never heard or read that, but I am pretty new to this.

Rather than no-chill, Im planning on just buying or making a wort chiller of some kind


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## brendanos (1/4/14)

Tahoose do you have any evidence to support the skimming theory? I'm wildly (and genuinely) curious about the subject and concept (and have discussed it at great length in the past with home brewers and brewing professionals) but can't find much science on the subject. Hopefully there has been some develpments. To my knowledge hot break is much more complex than just the "crap that floats to the top" - with most being formed during and at the end of the boil. My conclusion thus far is that skimming is a waste of time.

How long did you let the whirlpool stand before racking? Had it stopped whirlpooling? Some kettles maintain heat and create thermal currents that interfere with whirlpool and reduce the effectiveness, kettle stand prior to whirlpooling might help. Also your fining addition may not have been optimised for the amount of solids in your wort. Which brewing method are you using? If you were lautering how clear was your runoff?

Also your hop additions will be effected by temperature post boil. Unless you are chilling immediately (with immersion or counter flow/plate) I would suggest adding your flavour/aroma additions to the whirlpool.


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## TheApathyParty (2/4/14)

I had let the whirlpool stand for about 20min? The wort at the top of the kettle looked pretty clear, it wasn't until I got lower I started to notice all the sediment. The liquid didn't seem to whirlpool too well, I have a rod heating element in the base kettle, could this affect the whirlpool?
I did a BIAB in a keggle, so there was no lauter or sparge.


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## Tahoose (2/4/14)

No Brendanos I don't have any evidence on the skimming part, I thought that was the done thing. 

Maybe I'm doing it wrong :S


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## Dan Pratt (2/4/14)

Hot break in beer is bad, cold break in beer is not bad. Avoiding hot break by skimming the surface during boil doesn't remove all the hot break and its each to their own with that technique.

research the no chill method and try using brew bright powder and add it when you do your whirlpool. Make sure its a slurry before you add it eg 100mls water and brew brite, end of boil start whirlpool...add brewbright.... She will drop out nice.


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## TheApathyParty (2/4/14)

What makes the hot break bad? Does it make the beer spoil sooner or create off flavours or something?


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## brendanos (3/4/14)

In my experience with BIAB you get more protein and polyphenol from the fine grinds/flour that gets through the bag (as opposed to lautering/recirculation where most solids are filtered out) which will lead to a larger amount of solids/break material.

The element will decrease the effectiveness of the whirlpool but shouldn't negate it completely - a quick google suggests that others get 80 - 90% whirlpool effectiveness with an element (though you can expect this to vary based on your system).

You can skim if you want, don't let me stop you (it probably doesn't hurt) but to my mind it is a little too OCD. Don't get me wrong I think all brewers need an element of OCD but I don't think that skimming qualifies as worthwhile. There are plenty more important things to worry about.

Excessive hot break can lead to poor colloidal stability (haze, solids and foaming) and poor yeast health/sluggish fermentation (ie lag, underattenuation, off flavours). There are plenty of good reasons to avoid hot break but I think they're the main ones.


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## Tahoose (3/4/14)

Funnily enough I did my first BIAB the other day after about 8 AG brews and I had heaps of solids during the boil and my kettle element cut out due to being caked on with heaps of something or other. 

Bonus was though the brew day only took 2 1/2 hrs..


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## TheApathyParty (4/4/14)

Thanks for the help guys, I've learned a lot here! Both in recipes and brewing!
Would you guys recommend a gelatin addition and/or cold crashing before bottling to reduce the sediment?


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## TheApathyParty (4/4/14)

Thanks for the help guys, I've learned a lot here! Both in recipes and brewing!
Would you guys recommend a gelatin addition and/or cold crashing before bottling to reduce the sediment?


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## mb-squared (4/4/14)

TheApathyParty said:


> I didn't skim anything off the boil, I have never heard or read that, but I am pretty new to this.


you didn't scoop the foop?! oh my... 

some people say you gotta scoop that foop; some say you don't. I usually do to prevent boil overs since my BK isn't really big enough for my batches, but I don't know if it really matters wrt to the final product.


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## TheApathyParty (6/4/14)

mb-squared said:


> you didn't scoop the foop?! oh my...
> 
> some people say you gotta scoop that foop; some say you don't. I usually do to prevent boil overs since my BK isn't really big enough for my batches, but I don't know if it really matters wrt to the final product.


The foop was un-scooped... I didn't even know there _was_ foop to scoop!


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## mb-squared (6/4/14)

I can't seem to find a pic of my foop, but see 3rd pic down here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step?page=9


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## TheApathyParty (7/4/14)

Between this thread and John Palmers: How To Brew, I've learned a lot about Hot and Cold Break! And Foop.


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