# Victory Malt - How much is too much?



## hermanpeckel (4/8/14)

I was going to title this "Not Really A Victory', but...

So, in my quest to make a good clone of the Lord Nelson's Victory Bitter, I chucked together a recipe with a bit of inside knowledge (I can't say too much there). Well, I knew what malts they used, but not the proportions.

4.5kg Maris Otter
930g Munich I
500g Victory

I BIABed this baby up, and after two weeks in the fermenter, bottled it last Thursday. Being an impatient... ummmm... person, I chilled and cracked a bottle last night, you know, just to test it. Hmmmm... it seems I may have been a bit heavy handed on the Victory. It tastes very "grainy" (for want of a better description).

Has anyone had experience with this? Will it calm down with a bit of aging? Is this too much Victory malt (about 7.7%)?


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## manticle (4/8/14)

I'd be aiming for about half that (or less). Munich is quite bready, maris slightly biscuitty as well so consider that.

These toasted, nutty malts like aromatic, biscuit and victory are quite powerful.


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## MaltyHops (4/8/14)

manticle said:


> ... maris slightly biscuitty as well so consider that.


How would you describe biscuitty in terms of actual biscuits on supermarket shelves? I imagine not like
scotch finger (buttery) or yoyos (eggy) but maybe milk coffee, arrowroot, sao, water crackers?


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## jaypes (4/8/14)

I have a house beer which is 100% munich with amarillo

Although it is a very nutty, biscuitty, roasted malt my heavy hand at using the amarillo balances it out nicely - a firm favourite


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## hermanpeckel (4/8/14)

Hmmm... does anyone know if this flavour will mellow? Or do I just have to serve this one with a chunk of brie on top of it?


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## manticle (4/8/14)

> How would you describe biscuitty in terms of actual biscuits on supermarket shelves? I imagine not like
> scotch finger (buttery) or yoyos (eggy) but maybe milk coffee, arrowroot, sao, water crackers?


Closer to milk coffee I guess. Slightly toasty, nutty and a hint of sweet. Not really water cracker.


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## brewologist (4/8/14)

I made an IPA with 750g of Victory in a double batch. It also had 7kg of Trad Ale and 2kg each, Munich and Light Caramel. 

It definitely gave it a malt hit. I'll be backing off on the Victory next time and bump it down to 350 -400g's.


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## RobB (14/8/14)

From the manufacturer:

• 2-8% Doppelbock, Mild Ales
• 5-15 Amber ales and lagers, Brown Ales
• 5-25% Scotch ales and other dark beers

I have used 15% Dingeman's Biscuit, which is meant to be similar to Victory, and the resulting amber ale was fantastic. However, it was the only non base grain in the mash - 15% Biscuit and 85% MO.


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## Donske (15/8/14)

Malty Cultural said:


> I have used 15% Dingeman's Biscuit, which is meant to be similar to Victory, and the resulting amber ale was fantastic. However, it was the only non base grain in the mash - * 15% Biscuit and 85% MO.*


That is pretty much my standard grist when brewing IPAs using the more fruity hop varieties, works out pretty bloody nice, enough malt to act as a counter point to the fruit salad, none of the caramel/toffee from cara malts I'd throw in my more bog standard IPAs (C hops and Simcoe). 

Mash low and long for a smashable IPA. 

I recently split a sack of biscuit in a BB, have pushed it to around 20% in an APA (rest of the grist MO), probably should have gone with my normal 10%, may have over done the toasted malts a touch. Still nice though.


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## hermanpeckel (17/8/14)

Well, thanks for your input folks. JFTR, I cracked a bottle of this again last night, almost two weeks on since the first tasting. The grainy flavour that once smacked me in the face has now mellowed beautifully, resulting in a great beer! Oh the difference a day (or 14) makes!!

A victory indeed!


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## evoo4u (22/1/16)

jaypes said:


> I have a house beer which is 100% munich with amarillo...


Can you remember what the FG was?

Reason I ask is that I'm currently fermenting a brew with 97% Munich I and 3% Carafa II. After 12 days, gravity is 1016, which is spot on according to Beersmith. Admittedly the (single) mash step was at 68C, but does the Munich I have a higher proportion of unfermentables than a 'standard' base malt?


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## sponge (22/1/16)

What was your OG and what yeast did you use?

I have made a couple of Munich-based SMASH beers and love munich as a standalone base malt. Using 1272 (or 1469) I normally get down to 1.012-13 from 1.050.

You'd be expecting a higher FG with a single step mash at 68'C so 1.016 could be finished.


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## evoo4u (22/1/16)

sponge said:


> What was your OG and what yeast did you use?


Refractometer reading was 13.8% (at 19C), and I fermented it with S-23 at 12C. I've let it rise to 18C overnight, so if it's still 1016 tomorrow, I'll consider it finished, and go ahead and bottle it.


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## manticle (22/1/16)

68 deg mash with some hotter kilned and roasted malt could easily be 1014-1016.

Are you measuring sg/fg with refrac and adjusting for the presence of alcohol?


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## evoo4u (23/1/16)

No, measuring FG with a hydrometer. It reads up to only a smidge past 1040, so OG with the refractometer, and FG with the hydrometer.


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