# Mangrove jack west coast ale m44 yeast lagging



## spookus13b (1/6/15)

Mangrove jack west coast ale m44 yeast lagging for over 36 hrs now... Been cooking at 19 degrees , not a single sign of life !! O.G 1.050 one satchel not rehydrated and to top it off my burker immersion heater died sometime today whilst at work and it crashed to 12 degrees.... Is it salvageable or tip it ??


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## trevgale (1/6/15)

I had a similar experience with that yeast. It ended up taking off after 48hrs, fermented out to around 1.013 in about a week and ended up having a plastic flavour which I think was Brett. Anyway I ended up tipping it, it the only batch I've ever tipped. 

I would check the gravity to see if there has been any activity, if not I would pitch some US-05. This long lag time seems to be a pretty common complaint, although people have reported good results. 

It's one yeast I won't be using again.


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## spookus13b (1/6/15)

Mmmm I've read that it struggles.. Yeah I'm not happy been a few years in between brews. I usually use US-05 but went with this instead. Im not going to be home for another 48 hrs now so I think it will be dead by then!..?


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## trevgale (1/6/15)

Reading through a few forums there are a lot of people that have experienced good results after a long lag time. Hopefully you will be one of them.


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## goatchop41 (1/6/15)

I used this for a Pacific Ale clone. Lagged for about 36ish hours, then ripped down to FG in about 3-4 days.

Also, why on earth would you consider tipping your wort just because the yeast hasn't taken off? :huh:
If it's been covered and your sanitation is good, then you don't have much of an infection worry. Warm it up and the yeast will wake up. The cold temps will just make them go dormant, not kill them!


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## spookus13b (2/6/15)

So you think that after 72 hrs with no action it should be good to heat up??? It may be close to 96 hrs if I don't get home tonight!! Should I get some US-05 and chuck it once I get up to 20 degrees???


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## goatchop41 (2/6/15)

Depends how much of a rush you're in. If you are happy to wait a day and see, then I'd try to get the M44 going again (as I said, the lower temp won't have killed them, just quietened them down).
If the yeast has started to floc out, then i would be worthwhile rousing the fermenter as well as warming it up. If you take a gravity reading and there has been little activity then you can give it a real good shake - it'll rouse the yeast, and the extra oxygen will help get them going again. No worries about oxidation if the wort hasn't fermented yet B)

If that doesn't work, or you're in a hurry, warm it up to 16-20C then stick some more yeast in (and pleaseeeeeee rehydrate it this time - it only takes 15-20 mins and can only help you) :beerbang:


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## spookus13b (2/6/15)

Yeah cheers I was super slack with not rehydrating no excuses!! Im installing a thermostat gauge and small ceramic heater in my brew cupboard to combat the cold once I jump start it tommorrow night!!! I'm in no rush!!


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## HBHB (2/6/15)

At 1.050 and not rehydrated, I'd be pitching a second one with rehydration personally.

It's actually an excellent yeast, clean fermentation with a very low ester profile and has become my go to yeast for APA's and AIPA's - but always rehydrated as per the instructions.


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## rude (2/6/15)

Just looked up the yeast & the instructions are pretty poor really
You would think rehydrate & use 2 10g pkts for 20 litres 1050 or is this yeast different


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## pcqypcqy (2/6/15)

I had similar issues with these yeast. In the lag time, other nasties took a hold and ended up ruining this batch. DMS and wild yeasts I think took their toll. I noticed no activity around 24 hours after first pitching, then ended up repitching at 36 hours. Did not rehydrate that time, but do so now.


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## spookus13b (3/6/15)

Ok I got home tonight put in a bath of 30 degrees let it shake about as I walked from the shed, let it siting the bath for 5 hrs keeping the water around 24-25, installed new heater in brew cupboard. Krausen kicked in after just 1hr!. Still bubbling and Krausen is near an inch thick... Thanks for the guidance guys!


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## HBHB (4/6/15)

Spookus, it tends to do it's best work with an ambient temp around 18-19 degrees, so that makes the liquid temp about 20 during the more vigorous primary stage. I commonly bump it to 20 deg ambient at around day 7 or 8. Have certainly had some great results from it. Clean as a whistle, low ester profile.


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## spookus13b (4/6/15)

Thanks HBHB! Yeah I've got the ambient set to 19 and it's bubbling nicely. After such a long lag time should I start my ferment time frame from last night? So I was planning a 14 day ferment dry hop on day 8 cold crash @ 3 degrees on day 12, bottle on 14?


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## Vini2ton (4/6/15)

Starters are the go mate. Just a little extra effort and you'll have the confidence that your brew toil will not be in vain.1ltr with 100gm dme boiled put in flagon then cooled to 20c. Add rehydrated yeast (instructions and a conversation in itself) give it a day or two, then drain of 2/3s swirl then pitch. Or feed it more DME to step it up. I'm sure some of the experts will add to my advice. At the moment I,m workin up a big arse 34/70 for a big arse lager. Trust me its worth it.


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## Brooa (15/6/15)

I've just used M44 for the second time, & both times it has kicked off within 24 hours. I think keeping temp as constant as posible is the go.


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## goatchop41 (15/6/15)

Vini2ton said:


> Starters are the go mate. Just a little extra effort and you'll have the confidence that your brew toil will not be in vain.1ltr with 100gm dme boiled put in flagon then cooled to 20c. Add rehydrated yeast (instructions and a conversation in itself) give it a day or two, then drain of 2/3s swirl then pitch. Or feed it more DME to step it up. I'm sure some of the experts will add to my advice. At the moment I,m workin up a big arse 34/70 for a big arse lager. Trust me its worth it.


Liquid yeast, yes, but a bit of research will tell you that starters for dry yeast generally aren't the go....I've read some stuff from Jamil that they can actually hurt viable yeast numbers in dry yeast! And for the price and effort involved when it comes to dry yeast, you may as well just grab another packet instead....


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## Benn (15/6/15)

I used Mangrove Jacks M44 for the first time Saturday evening, Pitched it dry as per packet instructions. I had some minor temp fluctuations during the first 12hrs (first time using an STC 1000) first signs of fermentation began around 40hrs. Looks and smells good at a now constant 19deg.


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## Brooa (15/6/15)

Yeah, mine may have started sooner because I'm in Brissy & It's pleasantly warmer up here.


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## Vini2ton (15/6/15)

Come in spinner.


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## Vini2ton (16/6/15)

Well, come on, I've been brewing for years. Helped the old man when I was a kid (about 1972 was my first experience with brewing) so I couldn't really give a rat's arse what "Jamil " reckons. Pedants write books. Good beer is good beer. Many roads lead to Rome but some are more annoying.


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## whitegoose (16/6/15)

I agree with the lag comments... I pitched 2 packets of M44 to 23 L of 1.060 IPA a couple of weeks ago and there was no activity for 48 hours - I was spinning out a little bit - then it went BEZERK


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## goatchop41 (22/6/15)

Vini2ton said:


> Well, come on, I've been brewing for years. Helped the old man when I was a kid (about 1972 was my first experience with brewing) so I couldn't really give a rat's arse what "Jamil " reckons. Pedants write books. Good beer is good beer. Many roads lead to Rome but some are more annoying.


Some pedants do research and present their findings in the form of a book that allows you to easily digest the information yourself in a short course....there's no need to be hostile just because someone is challenging your own long held belief. Unless you do microscopic cell counts yourself, then you can't really refute their research.....
Essentially, if it there was solid evidence out there that it was unnecessary for you to be making starters with dried yeast, which would then save you the time and effort involved in making a starter, would you ignore that fact just because making a starter is something that you've always done?


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## NewtownClown (22/6/15)

goatchop41 said:


> Liquid yeast, yes, but a bit of research will tell you that starters for dry yeast generally aren't the go....I've read some stuff from Jamil that they can actually hurt viable yeast numbers in dry yeast! And for the price and effort involved when it comes to dry yeast, you may as well just grab another packet instead....


You are correct in that sprinkling dry yeast directly, whether it be a starter or full volume of wort, will reduce the number of viable cells. However, the advice to re-hydrate prior to inoculating a starter is quite sound.


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## NewtownClown (22/6/15)

Vini2ton said:


> Well, come on, I've been brewing for years. Helped the old man when I was a kid (about 1972 was my first experience with brewing) so I couldn't really give a rat's arse what "Jamil " reckons. Pedants write books. Good beer is good beer. Many roads lead to Rome but some are more annoying.


 This, so-called, pedant, also owns a a successful brewery.


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## Vini2ton (22/6/15)

Apologies to Jamil.


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## Yob (22/6/15)

Is also the most awarded homebrewer in America no?

...and helped write the yeast book with Chris white from Whitelabs...


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## goatchop41 (23/6/15)

NewtownClown said:


> This, so-called, pedant, also owns a a successful brewery.





Yob said:


> Is also the most awarded homebrewer in America no?
> 
> ...and helped write the yeast book with Chris white from Whitelabs...


Yes, yes and yes. I should have been clearer and stated those facts about him, as I knew them. The book 'Yeast' is a bloody heavy read, but has some good stuff. Hence why I would give his words quite a bit of weight when considering how they would affect my brewing practices.



NewtownClown said:


> You are correct in that sprinkling dry yeast directly, whether it be a starter or full volume of wort, will reduce the number of viable cells. However, the advice to re-hydrate prior to inoculating a starter is quite sound.


I certainly agree, but there is a difference between rehydrating and making a starter. I might have not been clear enough from the start, I was trying to make the distinction that rehydrating dry yeast is good, but making a starter with dry yeast is not necessarily good. Wasn't trying to be argumentative for the sake of it.


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## Rocker1986 (23/6/15)

This is something that's always interested me, as I will occasionally make starters with dry yeast, in order to harvest a portion of the starter for future use. After that I guess they become liquid yeast anyway really. I always rehydrate the yeast before pitching it either into the main batch of wort or into a starter. 

Is it bad practice to make starters even with rehydrated dry yeast, or is it not much different to pitching it into a bigger batch of wort?

FWIW I can't really detect any issues in the finished beer from doing it.


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## NewtownClown (23/6/15)

goatchop41 said:


> I certainly agree, but there is a difference between rehydrating and making a starter. I might have not been clear enough from the start, I was trying to make the distinction that rehydrating dry yeast is good, but making a starter with dry yeast is not necessarily good. Wasn't trying to be argumentative for the sake of it.


I didn't think, nor suggest, you were being argumentative. Perhaps you misunderstood my post.

Making a starter from _re-hydrated yeast_ - as vini2ton had suggested in his post - is okay practice.
Sprinkling the yeast directly on wort will result in a drop in viable cells and is not best practice - as you suggest in your reply to him (but it is still okay if you are prepared to take that hit by taking into account the reduced cell numbers when calculating the pitching rate). 
Jamil's discussion was about sprinkling yeast on a starter wort - indeed not good practice, it would be very difficult to determine the final, approximate cell count.

Pitching re-hydrated yeast in a starter is, after all, just like making a small batch of small beer. I wouldn't bother when dry yeast is $4.50 - $6.00 a pack, my time is more valuable than that.


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## Rocker1986 (23/6/15)

Ok thanks for that. 

I only make them in order to harvest a portion of the starter into a jar to store for the next batch. If I was harvesting from the trub after fermenting the batch then yeah, I would simply re-hydrate the yeast and pitch into the main batch. Horses for courses I suppose.


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## TheWiggman (21/7/15)

I made a LCBA-alike last week and had M44 on hand. Never used it before. I got excellent efficiency and ended up with 22.5l of 1.050 into the fermenter.
I decided to do a mini-starter as Newtown noted (a 1:40 round trip to the home brew store was out of the question) to see how long it would take.

1l first kettle runnings into a flask
21.5l into a cube
Rehydrated M44
After 1l flask had cooled, rehydrated yeast went in
Brew day was Saturday, yeast into the flask around 6 PM.

Sunday no action.
Monday no action. Moved from the kitchen bench into a fridge with a heater.
Tuesday... no action. Flask felt a bit cool. Bumped temp of heat belt up to 28°C.
Wednesday PM, some sign of life notable on the surface. Cube comically emptied while trying to strain cube hops in vain and yeast pitched at around 15°C. Temp was set at 17.5°C.

By Thursday night there was _minor_ evidence of fermentation and the SG had dropped 3 points. Bumped to 18°C. Last night (4 days later) it's finishing and sitting at 1.013 so I bumped the temp up to 20°C.

This yeast doesn't seem to like cool temps at all. Tasting throughout has varied substantially, with vinyl-like tastes early on that settled to showcase more of the hop characteristics last night. The Summer hops really showcase melon character and combined with the fruitiness of Ella, this will make for an interesting beer.


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## TheWiggman (27/7/15)

I don't know what's going on but this beer seems like it's ruined. The vinyl taste I mentioned is what I understand as phenolics - strong wheat-like character to it. I had a whiff from the clove jar and it's a different smell, I wouldn't say bandaid-like but I would say like plastic.

I used Brewbrite and geletined / cold crashed at 0°C for 2 days and it came out cloudy. Referring to this article I'm guessing that the issue might be polyphenols from a poor mash or sparge. I struggle to believe that because I made fair adjustments with salts in the mash and I sparged to the button (i.e. drained the mash to hit the right preboil volume) with 77°C water. However the pH of water was at least 7.6 as my test kit doesn't go any higher.
That said, my previous beers have been fine and specifically the last beer - CPA clone using the same fermenter - is glorious and possibly my most fault-free beer to date.

The only other time I've had a similar issue to this is when I used US-05, and the plastic flavour (which I attributed to poor hop storage) rendered the post-ferment beer undrinkable and I tipped it. Yeast was hydrated in both cases.

Anyone had this problem?


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## Rocker1986 (27/7/15)

I had a batch of lager come out tasting rather strange last year, I can't even describe it. Sort of like a solventy taste would be my best "guess". I put it down to the yeast not being in the best of health or numbers (it was W34/70). The only other difference was that it sat in the cube for about 12 months before I fermented it. Had not had this problem on any previous batches of similar recipes fermented with that yeast. I still drank it somehow. :lol: This brew wasn't gelatined but I did lager it at 0C for about 4-5 weeks before bottling. 

I find PVPP is effective at removing polyphenols. I mainly use it as a 'cure' for chill haze, however reading up on it suggests that there are other benefits to removing these tannins aside from aesthetics.


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## TheWiggman (28/7/15)

Well Brewbrite has PVPP in it so if it was effective at removing them on the mash side of things then I should be directing my attention to the ferment. Assuming polyphenols are the issue.
Actually, during the whirlpool there was a clump of white gunk around 2/3 the size of a marble. I thought it might have been coagulated Brewbrite (added at 5 mins) but it wouldn't break up when pressed against the side of the fermenter with the spoon. I threw it on the lawn but it was dark so didn't go back to check it.

The other unknown is 4 and 5 year old children trying to help with hop additions and inadvertently adding playdough or similar foreign matter.


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## goatchop41 (28/7/15)

NewtownClown said:


> I didn't think, nor suggest, you were being argumentative. Perhaps you misunderstood my post.
> 
> Making a starter from _re-hydrated yeast_ - as vini2ton had suggested in his post - is okay practice.
> Sprinkling the yeast directly on wort will result in a drop in viable cells and is not best practice - as you suggest in your reply to him (but it is still okay if you are prepared to take that hit by taking into account the reduced cell numbers when calculating the pitching rate).
> ...


I see where you're coming from now :icon_cheers: You are spot on - once properly rehydrated, you could then go on to make a starter from it if you needed a higher pitching rate, or wanted to overbuild in order to harvest from the starter. I definitely agree that this is not worth it though, given the time that needs to be invested vs the cost of a packet of dried yeast


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## goatchop41 (28/7/15)

TheWiggman said:


> I don't know what's going on but this beer seems like it's ruined. The vinyl taste I mentioned is what I understand as phenolics - strong wheat-like character to it. I had a whiff from the clove jar and it's a different smell, I wouldn't say bandaid-like but I would say like plastic.
> 
> I used Brewbrite and geletined / cold crashed at 0°C for 2 days and it came out cloudy. Referring to this article I'm guessing that the issue might be polyphenols from a poor mash or sparge. I struggle to believe that because I made fair adjustments with salts in the mash and I sparged to the button (i.e. drained the mash to hit the right preboil volume) with 77°C water. However the pH of water was at least 7.6 as my test kit doesn't go any higher.
> That said, my previous beers have been fine and specifically the last beer - CPA clone using the same fermenter - is glorious and possibly my most fault-free beer to date.
> ...


My S&W Pacific ale clone made with this yeast (that lagged like mad) had a similar flavour for a couple of months. Has since cleared up and is unreal. May as well give it some time and ride it out for a while.
I had been led to believe that plastic-y or band-aid-like phenolics don't age out, but this one did for me!


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## Rocker1986 (28/7/15)

I'm not convinced (yet) of Brewbrite's ability to remove these polyphenols. These combine with proteins at low temps and become visible, causing chill haze. I've used Brewbrite in every batch and still end up with chill haze. So either I haven't used enough in the boil, it only works effectively if the wort is chilled quickly (I no-chill), or it doesn't work at all. I just decided to use Polyclar during the cold crash as well, it removes them well.

I'm not sure it is the issue though, my understanding is that polyphenols affect the flavour in the longer term, as opposed to fresh beer.


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## fraser_john (3/8/15)

Like many I have seen long lag times with the MJ yeasts, well over 48 hours in some cases. But, I noticed something with the last batch I pitched (around 10pm Saturday night).

Geelong Craft Brewers held a big brew day, where we all trundled our various systems over to one of our members places. I chilled my wort and let it rest whilst having dinner and a few beers and pitched about half an hour before my wife came and picked me up.

Loading the fermenter into the car resulted in tons of jostling, sloshing etc. Then the drive home we have multiple speed humps to navigate, so heaps more sloshing, then unloading from the car, more sloshing.

Lag time for this pitch of M44, about 22 hours!

Maybe the yeast likes a bit of beating after it has hydrated? Dunno, but it was the shorted lag time for any MJ yeast I have used to date.


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## hoppinmad (3/8/15)

fraser_john said:


> Like many I have seen long lag times with the MJ yeasts, well over 48 hours in some cases. But, I noticed something with the last batch I pitched (around 10pm Saturday night).
> 
> Geelong Craft Brewers held a big brew day, where we all trundled our various systems over to one of our members places. I chilled my wort and let it rest whilst having dinner and a few beers and pitched about half an hour before my wife came and picked me up.
> 
> ...


I reckon the cane sugar in your recipe would have helped also


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## TheWiggman (8/8/15)

Early sample from the keg at ambient temp 11°C. 
Cloudy as shit. 
Tastes and smells like a wheat beer.
Little to no hop character. 
No idea what happened to this but it's rubbish and I'm inclined to tip it. With Brewbrite, cold crashing, PVPP and a supposedly flocculent yeast this should be clear. You can't even see fingers through it. Wild yeast maybe? One that looks like a normal beer yeast?


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## pcqypcqy (9/8/15)

TheWiggman said:


> Early sample from the keg at ambient temp 11°C.
> Cloudy as shit.
> Tastes and smells like a wheat beer.
> Little to no hop character.
> No idea what happened to this but it's rubbish and I'm inclined to tip it. With Brewbrite, cold crashing, PVPP and a supposedly flocculent yeast this should be clear. You can't even see fingers through it. Wild yeast maybe? One that looks like a normal beer yeast?


That sucks. Everything I've made with M44 I've had to dump. Similar flavours/symptoms to what you've described, though I'm not expert enough with my tasting to offer anything more specific. 

My experience is that it will not come good, so after tasting to try to pin down the off flavours, I'd tip it all.


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## fraser_john (9/8/15)

pcqypcqy said:


> That sucks. Everything I've made with M44 I've had to dump. Similar flavours/symptoms to what you've described, though I'm not expert enough with my tasting to offer anything more specific.
> 
> My experience is that it will not come good, so after tasting to try to pin down the off flavours, I'd tip it all.


Odd, I have an American Brown that is just about to finish fermentation using M44 and when I tasted it yesterday it was just what I would expect from the yeast, neutral yeast flavour/aroma, leaves the hops nice and bright.


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## TheWiggman (9/8/15)

Interesting pcqyx2. Anyone here with judging skills that would like one of my bottles so they might be able to asses what's wrong? You can even keep the bottle (P.E.T, first use) which I argue is a great deal. Might even throw in a bottle of something to prove I can make a decent beer.


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## pcqypcqy (9/8/15)

fraser_john said:


> Odd, I have an American Brown that is just about to finish fermentation using M44 and when I tasted it yesterday it was just what I would expect from the yeast, neutral yeast flavour/aroma, leaves the hops nice and bright.


From what I've read, others have had good experience with this yeast. I try to preface all my opinions on it by saying YMMV, but I've personally had nothing but troubles. 

My theory is that the long lag time exposes other flaws in my process that allow infections or off flavours to take hold, then no matter how vigorous the ferment or how heavy the dry hop, I can never make it good. 

As I'm new to the hobby and still learning, I'm trying to eliminate factors that I know contribute to my failure. For some reason, I've had good results with other brands so I'm sticking with those yeasts for now. If I get into making starters and rehydrating properly, I may give M44 a go, but not until then.


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## TheWiggman (13/10/15)

Thought I'd follow up on this - I walked past my bottles tonight and had a feel of the Bright Ale clone I brewed as mentioned above. TIGHT. I opened the glass bottles first and couldn't even pour a glass, it was 99% foam. I tasted it after it settled and it was dry, lost some of the phenolic character but still had an unusual fruity smell. It tasted better than it did 3 months ago but still a sub-par beer with little hop character to speak of.
Due to the dry taste I measured the gravity - 1.005, down from 1.011 when bottling. There was no visual evidence of it but I'm thinking this one got infected.


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## Benn (13/10/15)

I've had this yeast fermenting for 8 days at 17.5 degrees with a mangrove jacks IPA pouch kit, tasted a hydro sample tonight and got a very strong clove taste. I re cultured some washed trub from a previous brew so it could be a mistake in that process or I under pitched etc. 
It's still a little way off finishing (1:026 ish atm) I'll be interested to see how it progresses


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## Thrilhau5 (14/10/15)

First post...

I did my first brew on Sunday since my Uni kit days (it's been 5 years). Extract APA with Cascade, pitched 2 x packets of M44. Lag time was between 48 and 60 hours, had me scared. but is going bonkers as of this morning.

Gave the fermenter a shake last night as I read that sometimes this can help - not sure if it did, but seems good now.


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## TheWiggman (17/10/15)

Realised the bright ale keg mentioned above was still sitting next to the fridge. I went to put the gas on it today to check the pressure and PSSSSH!!!! It jumped over 300kPa and the coupling blew off before I pushed it all the way on. So another keg to the lawn, and based on the foam I think it's pretty fair to assume this one was infected. 
(a minute's silence please)


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## TheWiggman (15/2/16)

I'm a persistent bastard who hates life so I did another brew using a single pack of M44 and broke a few of the rules. I've had 2 batches go to the lawn after rehydrating so I decided to remove one variable and sprinkled dry h34r:
I brewed an all-Summer hop ale with a basic grain bill of pale and Redback malt. OG of 1.050 so kept the volume down to 20 litres. 

24h later, coagulation of solids at the top of the wort. 48h later and there was plenty of activity. Took about 8 days to hit FG which was quite low at 1.010, making it a 5.2% beer. Taste was quite pleasant, I think the Summer and Reback marry well and I'm keen to have this one on tap. So far a completely different experience with this yeast and looking positive. Dry hopped, cold crashed and dropped out clear unlike the last attempt.


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## Doctormcbrewdle (27/11/17)

I think these problems come from very old packets. Problem with this yeast is: there's no use by or packaging date on the packet


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## Yuz (27/11/17)

Slightly OT, but with overly long lag times, wouldn't the wort be almost oxygen-free by the time ferment starts?


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## Let's Brew Beer (13/12/17)

I have a 3rd gen. M44 on the go fermenting a MJ's Brown Ale, took about 4 hours to kick off. ambient temp around 22C. Try washing it and using it again. seems to work for me.


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## Bobski (3/1/19)

HBHB said:


> Spookus, it tends to do it's best work with an ambient temp around 18-19 degrees, so that makes the liquid temp about 20 during the more vigorous primary stage. I commonly bump it to 20 deg ambient at around day 7 or 8. Have certainly had some great results from it. Clean as a whistle, low ester profile.


Hi there, just curious as I am using this yeast at the moment, what effect does rasising the temp to 20C?


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## bcavan (24/4/19)

TheWiggman said:


> Well Brewbrite has PVPP in it so if it was effective at removing them on the mash side of things then I should be directing my attention to the ferment. Assuming polyphenols are the issue.
> Actually, during the whirlpool there was a clump of white gunk around 2/3 the size of a marble. I thought it might have been coagulated Brewbrite (added at 5 mins) but it wouldn't break up when pressed against the side of the fermenter with the spoon. I threw it on the lawn but it was dark so didn't go back to check it.
> 
> The other unknown is 4 and 5 year old children trying to help with hop additions and inadvertently adding playdough or similar foreign matter.



I realise your post is from a long time ago but I thought I'd follow up with a few questions.
Have you had this vinyl-like flavour problem with many of your brews as it could be caused by chlorine in your brewing water and not the things that you were trouble-shooting above.
Essentially the chlorine that your water authority adds reacts with the hop-phenols during fermentation which results in Chloro-phenol off-flavour, tastes a little clove-like but more so like bandaids.
I've had this happen with a few intermittent brews as the levels of chlorine in my water would vary, making it a difficult problem to nail down.
To solve it I bought some Potassium-Metabisulphate powder (aka Camden Tablets) and sprinkle 2 smallish pinches into my 30L of brewing water the night before brewing.


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## sittingaround (26/4/19)

I have had the same issue. It lags to start then lags to finish.
I just went back to using US05


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## Barry (7/5/19)

I have used this yeast quite a few times in different types of IPA’s with no problems. I like it because ADA is always 80 to 86%, better than I get with WLP001 or US05.


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