# Malt Shovel Kits



## big d (26/11/03)

just wondering for those of you that have tried the malt shovel kits what the general consensus is.
i love there beers so was wondering about there kits?

cheers
big d


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## Batz (26/11/03)

Your going to get all sorts of comments here big d , cost etc , but a mate made a couple and I recond they were a nice brew , simple two kit thingy


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## big d (26/11/03)

long time before i try one batz.just curious
will stick with there bottled stuff for some time yet.

love the new avatar


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## kook (26/11/03)

Do a little search on here, there was a previous thread about a few of us trying them.

Personally I found the kit I made pretty boring and bland. Very lacking in hops too. I thought Muntons Premium Gold was better for a similar price.


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## big d (26/11/03)

cheers
kook
searched before but must have missed the outcome/taste post


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## Jovial_Monk (26/11/03)

Very surprised at your comments, Kook

What I have heard was that the MS kits made pretty good beers







Jovial Monk


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## Batz (26/11/03)

Yes I thought they were ok
I do agree with kook , I perfer a more hoppy beer , but I was talking about the kit , and I believe it's pretty good for a kit.

:blink:


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## kook (26/11/03)

I tried the "Deep Roast Ale" I used less water than specified too. I still found it bland and boring. Very lacking in everything.

Heres my original post about it:
OK.

MSB Deep Roast Ale:

Linz, you definately wouldnt want to kit/kilo it, you'd end up with incredibly bland beer. I just tasted the first glass from my keg of this, and I was, well a little dissapointed. Great texture (due to my high FG of 1015 I presume). Lovely appearance, clear very dark brown, red tinges when you hold it up to the light. Great head, and suprisingly good retention too. The aroma was very lacking though. Smelt slightly malty/biscuity, that was about it really. Flavour was dissapointing too, rather bland malty taste with an aftertaste of chocolate malt. No real burnt or bitter tastes to it at all.

IMO this beer could benefit from some steeped dark grains (bit of choc malt, and a touch of roast barley?) and finishing hops. Its completely lacking in hops.

Not a bad kit beer, but nowhere near as good as the Muntons Premium Gold brew I tried (Smugglers Ale).


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## kook (26/11/03)

Batz said:


> Yes I thought they were ok
> I do agree with kook , I perfer a more hoppy beer , but I was talking about the kit , and I believe it's pretty good for a kit.
> 
> :blink:


 Try a Muntons Premium Gold kit, ESB fresh wort, or Woodefordes kit.

Theyre all around the same price $40 mark or so.
You'll be suprised


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## jayse (26/11/03)

Never done one but i would have thought they would be awesome.
Just before the lid goes on these cans they get hit with another dose hop extract.

Which of course is how the mega breweries do all their hops. So it doesn't really mean that much.

I have heard of some of the mega breweries only having hops on the premises once a year. They make up their extracts with them which last them the year.

Iam no expert on this practice. so this is just all a bit of brewing triva.


drinking irish tonite.
slainte.


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## Guest Lurker (27/11/03)

Of all the kits I tried, the Muntons premium gold got closest to a good beer with a complex malt profile and decent hop character. The Smugglers was good. But for that money you can get the bits and pieces to do a partial mash which is easily the equal. Havent tried the MSB kits though, so I guess I will go and saw my arm off for mis-posting.


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## Trev (27/11/03)

I made up a MSB Pale Ale recently. I wanted enough for my 19 litre keg so I added an extra kg of LLME and about 15g of Saaz that I steeped for about 10 mins in boiled water. Also about 250g of wheat malt, just for a bit better head retention. I added Saaz only because the label indicated that the kit had been bittered with Saaz and I didn't want to change the hop profile too much.

Primary for a week, secondary for 2 weeks, CC for another week before carbonating. It was a very nice ale, medium level of flavour/bitterness so it didn't shock the unitiated. Ended up being well liked by all who tried it, didn't last very long at all.

Not the best beer I've made but a long, long way from the worst. Will probably do it again real soon to have on hand for New Year.

Trev


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## Trough Lolly (27/11/03)

Guest Lurker said:


> Of all the kits I tried, the Muntons premium gold got closest to a good beer with a complex malt profile and decent hop character.


 I used a Muntons Connoisseurs (1.8Kg) Yorkshire Bitter as the base extract for a Kilkenny Clone.

Very, very nice with fresh EKG hops.

Sorry to drift slightly off topic!!  

Cheers,

TL


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## johnno (29/11/03)

Well I'm going to be doing a few of these as my understanding is that you only make 11 liters per can.
This is good for me coz I have minimal temp control in the summer and I cant brew large amounts. At least with a batch this small I will probably be able t CC then store at a reasonable temp after bottling in my very big esky. Wont be able to make many but at least its better than having to stop totally for the summer.
Cant wait till next autumn when the wetaher cools to try jayse's porter recipe. yum

cheers B)


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## johnno (11/12/03)

Put one of these on last night. The Pale Ale.
Bubbling away nicely this morn.
Forgot to take OG but what the heck. Had a taste tho. Smelt and tasted just like any other kit. Oh well gotta wait and see.
I've been eyeing out the water cooler containers at work. They are 15 liters and a perfect size for a brew this size.
Asked the water man if he had any "spares".
All he replied was a firm NO.


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## johnno (10/1/04)

Tried one of these today. Put on the Pale ale a while back. Still needs a couple of weeks more in the in the bottle .
Tastes very nice but definately needs more hops.
if i ever do one of these again i'll give it a hop boost one way or the other


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## joecast (11/1/04)

thanks for the info johnno. msb do make great beers, but i suppose any "kit" would really only be a starting point and whatever you add to it (hops, more extract or grains) shuld only improve it. 
joe


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## johnno (6/2/04)

just finishing the very last of these ones now. the Pale Ale
gotta admit its probably the best tasting kit beer I have tried so far .
it has been really clear as well. Every other kit has had the "chill Haze". 

I like Trev's idea as well.
I would definately put one of these on again.

cheers


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## wedge (6/2/04)

i hear that they do not come from the same factory as James Squire beers but rather from someplace in New Zealand


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## Batz (6/2/04)

And I hear the Coopers special brews , Herritage etc are not made by Coopers either
Notice the different lables on the cans , different lids ???

I remember when Coopers moved away from those lids because of people where pinching the yeast , seems funny if you have a factory set up to produce a wort can you would make some completely different hey? :unsure:


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## big d (7/2/04)

hey batz
send this query to the coopers site.
bet ya get a real quick response denying it.
i gave them a post awhile back basically saying they sold out of leabrook to go bigger etc at regency park and geez did they give me a bollocking about the reasons behind it.still family owned bla bla blah where right your wrong etc etc.
no we havent sold our soles to become another mass produced beer bla bla blah.
think i hit a huge nerve  

cheers
big d


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## Batz (8/2/04)

Your may be in for another bollocking !
You see the response I got sometime back when I found out thier wine kits where made up and packaged in Canada , then send back to OZ
They did'nt like anyone knowing that


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## Fingerlickin_B (5/7/06)

Just grabbed a Two Row Lager can from Big W and think Ill start it tonight. 

The supplied yeast purports to be a Lager strain, but the instructions say 18-14 degrees fermenting temp.

Im guessing that it is in fact an Ale strain. 

Should I pitch a Saflager 34/70 sachet Ive already got at home instead?

PZ.


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## KillerRx4 (5/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Should I pitch a Saflager 34/70 sachet Ive already got at home instead?
> 
> PZ.




If you have a 34/70 use it I reckon. I did 1 of the malt shovel kits once & tried to rehydrate the supplied yeast. Tried but failed.


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## DJR (5/7/06)

wedge said:


> i hear that they do not come from the same factory as James Squire beers but rather from someplace in New Zealand



Heh i asked Chuck about that at the Malt Shovel the other day - he said "no" and walked off in a hurry 

He was trying to tell us the little 11.5L fermenters were good too


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## Trough Lolly (5/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Just grabbed a Two Row Lager can from Big W and think Ill start it tonight.
> 
> The supplied yeast purports to be a Lager strain, but the instructions say 18-14 degrees fermenting temp.
> 
> ...



For fun, I did a choc stout partial the other weekend using 1 can of their Oatmeal stout kit - it made 1 keg of pretty nice choc stout - mind you the Bairds Stout malt and Thomas Fawcett crystal and roasted barley didn't hurt either!!  

Definitely use the W34/70 (liquid or dry) if you've got it. It's a quantam leap compared to the yeast under the lid...


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## Fingerlickin_B (5/7/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> Definitely use the W34/70 (liquid or dry) if you've got it. It's a quantam leap compared to the yeast under the lid...



OK :chug: 

PZ.


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## hendo1963 (5/7/06)

The yeast supplied with the MSB Two-Row Lager tin is actually a Saflager that they have re-packaged (no dout they buy it in bulk packs) . From memory it's S-23 (I could be wrong on that). They supplied me with this information about a year ago via a website inquiry. That makes the kit pretty good value, especially if you but it in Big-W for c. $12.00!
I know they recommend fermenting at 18C., but I guess they're just trying to make the process fool-proof. Makes a nice European-style lager with the addition of some grains and finishing hops. I've also used MSB Oatmeal Stout as a base for a chocolate stout with Cooper's yeast cultured from a bottel of Pale Ale, & it turned out very good, but the rest of their kits I was disapointed with, although I'm tempted to try & improve the Pale Ale with grains/hops. I like the concept of the 11.5 litre batch, because it allows for developing a cellar of different styles of beer quite quickly. :beer: FWIW. Good brewing!


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## Trough Lolly (6/7/06)

Interesting....if MSB is actually shipping out S-23 with their kits, they deserve a big pat on the back for trying to lift their overall quality levels, but it's therefore a real shame that those sachets of lager yeast are sitting under a black lid on a kit that sits on a shelf at room temps or worst still, in the sun on a brewshop shelf! :blink: 

I'd still rate the W34/70 strain ahead of S-23 but if they are shipping saflager, I commend them for at least doing it...

Cheers,
TL


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## Fingerlickin_B (6/7/06)

Well, I haven't used 34/70 before. 

Pitched after rehydration last night around 6pm...still nothing at lunchtime today  

How long does this stuff take to "get moving"? 

I kept the supplied yeast, so I'll pitch it as well if the 34/70 fails to start :blink: 

PZ.


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## Steve (6/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Well, I haven't used 34/70 before.
> 
> Pitched after rehydration last night around 6pm...still nothing at lunchtime today
> 
> ...




FB - mine are usually gonig off after 12 hours. I dont re-hydrate. It should be going by now? How many packets did you use and what temp is it at?
Cheers
Steve


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## Morrie0069 (6/7/06)

I did an MSB 2 can of the 2 row lager about 2 months ago(way too many 2's in that sentence  !) - made up in afternoon and had activity the next morning stitting at around 17 degrees, no rehydration done. Perhaps give it a little longer and if nothing pitch again.


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## Trough Lolly (6/7/06)

Yep - too soon PZ...W34/70 doesn't need to be rushed and it does take longer, especially if you are fermenting at true lager temps (approx 10C). I did a German Pils a few months ago and it took a couple of days to get going. I typically leave W34/70 in primary for at least 2 weeks...Lagers are like brewing in slo-mo!!
The yeast will be in the adaptive phase right now (unless they're a dud batch or they're completely dead!!). They can also take a few hits if you shock them by transferring them to a solution that's 10 degrees or more different to their source solution, eg pitching yeast at 8C into a fermenter at 20C. 
Although you might not see any airlock action, the yeast will be multiplying in cell count, using up the available oxygen to aerobically build up in size before entering into the attenuative phase where they get to work on the rest of the sugars and ferment the beer. You'll see a buildup of sediment on the floor of the fermenter.
It's also worth noting that even after entering the attenuative phase, you won't get any airlock action until the yeast has consumed at least 5% of the fermentables on offer and they've saturated the solution with CO2 resulting in bubbling and eventual airlock movement. This is another reason why the best measure of yeast attenuation is via gravity readings and not watching an airlock.
Cheers,
TL


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## Steve (6/7/06)

Kind of off topic from the Malt Shovel kits....but my pilsener using two packets of W34/70 I did on Saturday afternoon started at 1040 and was down to 1022 in 3 days! I pitched it 18ish and left at 18ish for 12 hours and then dropped to 10 degrees. I actually took it out of the fridge this morning for its rest as it was down to 1018. :blink: (first time pitching two packets)
Cheers
Steve


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## Fingerlickin_B (6/7/06)

One sachet (15g I think). Its only 11 litres, so I thought that would be heaps. 

Pitched it into 18 degree wort, but it has since dropped to 12. 

PZ.


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## Steve (6/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> One sachet (15g I think). Its only 11 litres, so I thought that would be heaps.
> 
> Pitched it into 18 degree wort, but it has since dropped to 12.
> 
> PZ.



I'd probably take a reading either tonight or tomorrow morning to see if has dropped any. Did you take a reading when you made it? If it hasnt dropped any in a few days i'd be thinking about pitching another packet. I only usually use one packet and thought i'd experiment with two. Huge Krausen and probably 50mm layer of sediment in the bottom.


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## berazafi (6/7/06)

> Kind of off topic from the Malt Shovel kits....but my pilsener using two packets of W34/70 I did on Saturday afternoon started at 1040 and was down to 1022 in 3 days! I pitched it 18ish and left at 18ish for 12 hours and then dropped to 10 degrees. I actually took it out of the fridge this morning for its rest as it was down to 1018. (first time pitching two packets)
> Cheers
> Steve



You may find that the majority of fermentation happened at around the 18 deg mark, especially if you temperauture control was the ambeint air and not the wort. If fermentation started at 18 its possible it would not cool down due the the heat the yeast produce and thus perform a very fast ferment


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## hendo1963 (6/7/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> Interesting....if MSB is actually shipping out S-23 with their kits, they deserve a big pat on the back for trying to lift their overall quality levels, but it's therefore a real shame that those sachets of lager yeast are sitting under a black lid on a kit that sits on a shelf at room temps or worst still, in the sun on a brewshop shelf! :blink:
> 
> I'd still rate the W34/70 strain ahead of S-23 but if they are shipping saflager, I commend them for at least doing it...
> 
> ...



Agreed, Trough Lolly, they deserve kudos for supplying their customers with such a quality yeast with this kit, although, as I intimated, I think apart from the lager the kits are pretty average (some say the wheat beer is good, it's the one I haven't tried yet). It may even be W34/70 - as I said, I could be wrong because I have long since deleted the e-mail, but it was definitely Saflager. According to the label, MSB are made by the Canterbury, NZ brewery that also produces Black Rock and the NZ Mac's brand (which look suspiciously like MSB re-packaged for the NZ market, or is it the other way 'round?). Unfortunately, I didn't ask what type of yeast they supply with their ale kits. 
Btw, I'm pretty sure Cooper's are supplying various types of Saf yeasts with their 'Thomas Cooper's' range.


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## Fingerlickin_B (7/7/06)

Well, to be sure I also emailed MSB and Jess replied saying he didnt know, but Maltexo could help me. 

I called them and spoke to some woman who said she didnt know which strain it was but that is was definitely a lager strain. 

When I queried the specified high fermentation temperature she suggested maybe thats because its EuropeanOMG :lol:  :unsure:  

I then said lager yeast is European and goodbye!

PZ.


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## Trough Lolly (7/7/06)

Steve said:


> Kind of off topic from the Malt Shovel kits....but my pilsener using two packets of W34/70 I did on Saturday afternoon started at 1040 and was down to 1022 in 3 days! I pitched it 18ish and left at 18ish for 12 hours and then dropped to 10 degrees. I actually took it out of the fridge this morning for its rest as it was down to 1018. :blink: (first time pitching two packets)
> Cheers
> Steve



Hi Steve,
Hope last night's meeting was a goodun - one day the missus will be at home, not work, and I'll be able to rejoin the festivities...  
There's a consensus that two packs of W34/70 is good for standard batches around the 23L mark - and of course, you should always try to build up a decent sized and active starter when you use the liquid yeast variant. On the dry strains, I've been lazy lately and simply pitch them into the wort and be done with it - accepting the risk of repitching fresh yeast if the sachets are inactive...
Have you tasted the brew yet? The reason I ask is that I'm wondering if you have any fusels (solventy / harsh nail polish like flavour and aroma) or fruity esters in the beer, after a relatively high starting temp. 
Some recent discussions on the HBD.org forum indicates that fusels aren't too much of a problem if the temp drop occurs early in primary, as US brewer Steve Alexander noted in a PM to me on 19 May when I asked about pitching lager yeast warm (24C) and fermenting cool (11C) and I quote:


> The big hump in ester production occurs when yeast growth ceases, late fermentation, and should be considerably influences by the temp at that time.
> 
> Fusels are formed both early and late, but so long as the hi-temp period is short that's probably tolerable. My biggest concern is that the yeast can only form UFA lipids during the early aerobic period and they form less at higher temps. With less UFA the yeast may have stress problems (stuck fermentation, poor hi-grav performance) and will generally produce more fusels late than hi-UFA yeasts.
> 
> ...



Anyways, to lurch briefly back on topic, I've found the Oatmeal stout kit ok, but to be fair, it constitutes less than 30% of the total fermentables in my partial stout brew....and the all grain variant is better again, IMHO. h34r: 

Cheers,
TL


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## hendo1963 (7/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Well, to be sure I also emailed MSB and Jess replied saying he didnt know, but Maltexo could help me.
> 
> I called them and spoke to some woman who said she didnt know which strain it was but that is was definitely a lager strain.
> 
> ...



That's disappointing, Fingerlickin, to say the least. You'd expect more from folks who purport to be craft brewers. Their customer service has obviously dropped off lately. Anyway, I really wanted to suggest to guys on the list not to automatically discard the yeast under the lid without knowing what it is (assuming we're buying fresh kits, of course). With some producers now supplying premium yeasts with their kits it doesn't make sense to throw it out and spend $4.50 or even $9.00 (for two packs) on what might be the very same thing! For example, I just bought a kit yesterday (Brewcraft) which is supplied with a US-56 yeast. Do some research. My experience has been that most producers are only too happy to tell you what they are using. Good brewing!


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## DJR (7/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Well, to be sure I also emailed MSB and Jess replied saying he didnt know, but Maltexo could help me.
> 
> I called them and spoke to some woman who said she didnt know which strain it was but that is was definitely a lager strain.
> 
> ...



heh "maybe that's because it's european" :lol:

Jess is a she... i don't think any of the guys at the brewery will be able to help you because they don't make it there (maybe Chuck will but that's another story)

Anyway, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe the lager yeast supplied with MSB kits is S-189.

S-189 specs


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## hendo1963 (7/7/06)

DJR said:


> Fingerlickin_B said:
> 
> 
> > Well, to be sure I also emailed MSB and Jess replied saying he didnt know, but Maltexo could help me.
> ...



S-189...that rings a bell, DJR. I think we may have nailed it.


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## Fingerlickin_B (7/7/06)

34/70 has shown signs of life :super: 

Well that did take a while, but it's obviously working now. 

PZ.


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## Trough Lolly (7/7/06)

So that's around 36 hours since pitching? That's a long adaptive phase but then again, you didn't have a lot of yeast to begin with, did you? Occasionally the yeast may struggle with the trub and cold break in the bottom of the fermenter, unless you managed to syphon the wort off the break material in the kettle and that can result in stuck ferments as the bottom fermenting yeast struggles to have at the sugars in solution.

Just keep an eye on the fermenter; observe, sniff and have a taste in another 24 hours to make sure that it's the yeast and not a bacterial infection doing the job! Put it all down to experience!

Cheers,
TL


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## Fingerlickin_B (7/7/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> So that's around 36 hours since pitching? That's a long adaptive phase but then again, you didn't have a lot of yeast to begin with, did you?


15 grams for 11 litres didn't seem like "not a lot" to me, I normally pitch that much ale yeast into batches twice that size :huh: 



Trough Lolly said:


> Just keep an eye on the fermenter; observe, sniff and have a taste in another 24 hours to make sure that it's the yeast and not a bacterial infection doing the job! Put it all down to experience!



Looks good, smells good...it's definitely the yeast :beer: 

Thanks for all you input too  

PZ.


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## Trough Lolly (10/7/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> 15 grams for 11 litres didn't seem like "not a lot" to me, I normally pitch that much ale yeast into batches twice that size :huh:



Yep, and that's one of the many differences between brewing lagers and ales...you normally use twice as much yeast in a lager - so one sachet for a half sized lager batch is normal. When using liquid lager yeast, it's important to make a starter - not just to confirm the viability of the liquid yeast, but to make a large population of yeast to go into the wort...Hence stepping up the starter over a couple of days before brewday - and as mentioned elsewhere, you can use room temps to do that since you're making yeast, not beer.

Cheers,
TL


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## Beefy (20/7/06)

Hey everyone,

I'm relatively new to the homebrew game - done 6 brews so far - but I'm getting to the point where I want to slowly build my brewing skills and jazz up some kit beers for something a little tastier.

I've got 2 cans of Malt Shovel Summer Wheat that I'm going to prepare as a 23L brew on Sunday. I've already got myself some K-97 to use instead of the kit yeast, but really want to add some aromatic/finishing hops. As a slow start I was thinking of just buying a 'teabag' of Saaz hops (as per Redback) to boil for 5-10 minutes.... What do you all think?

To follow up in a few weeks time, I've also got two cans of Malt Shovel Deep Roast Ale. Got some Safale S-04 instead of the kit yeast, but again, I think some extra aromatic/finishing hops might be nice. Any suggestions on what I should use, and for how long? Further, the guy at my local store suggested adding dry corn syrup to the Deep Roast Ale - maltodextrin I believe - I guess in an attempt to make it really smooth and creamy. Does this sound like a fair idea?

Cheers in advance for the help!


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## Duff (20/7/06)

Beefy said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I'm relatively new to the homebrew game - done 6 brews so far - but I'm getting to the point where I want to slowly build my brewing skills and jazz up some kit beers for something a little tastier.
> 
> ...



Beefy,

Welcome, fill out your location so someone may be of assistance close to you in the future.

For the wheat, use either a Hallertau or Tettnanger tea bag if you use them, for the Ale try East Kent Goldings or Fuggles. Saaz are more traditionally used in Pilsner/Lager styles. Watch the teabags though, try and check if they are fresh and kept refridgerated. If they are just sitting on the shelf give them a miss as they will probably be stale and lacking flavour. Depending on where you are there are a number of good sources of hops that you could add to finish.

Cheers.


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## Beefy (20/7/06)

Duff said:


> Beefy,
> 
> Welcome, fill out your location so someone may be of assistance close to you in the future.



Done and dusted.



> For the wheat, use either a Hallertau or Tettnanger tea bag if you use them, for the Ale try East Kent Goldings or Fuggles. Saaz are more traditionally used in Pilsner/Lager styles. Watch the teabags though, try and check if they are fresh and kept refridgerated. If they are just sitting on the shelf give them a miss as they will probably be stale and lacking flavour. Depending on where you are there are a number of good sources of hops that you could add to finish.
> 
> Cheers.



Yeah, I got a PM from Ross suggesting that teabagged hops could be a poor choice. I'm quite sure my local home brew store (Westbrew Osborne Park) refridgerates everything, but maybe 'loose' pellets is a more reliable choice.

I was thinking Saaz because that's what is in Redback - a favourite of mine. But I see Hallertau come up frequently for wheat beers, so I'll trust your judgment and grab some of those and a hop sock. The method I have for finishing hops is to boil 12-15g for 2-5 minutes in half a litre of water, let sit for 10 minutes, then add to the fermenter with the kit. Is there anything you'd alter with this?

Goldings or Fuggles for the ale? Sounds good. My next cab-off-the-rank will be a stout - those should both be good for that as well I believe so maybe a large pack is in order. But how long will hops keep fresh opened in the fridge?

So anybody with opinions on the dry corn syrup in the ale before I write up my final shopping list?


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## KillerRx4 (20/7/06)

The few bags of hops in my fridge were bought in january. These are still as frash as when I got them as far as i can tell. 

I think the packaging they came in helps to keep them fresh.

Same as top pic -> http://www.goldstarcoffee.com/package/index.htm


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## mike_hillyer (20/7/06)

I find Northern Brewer in small doses are beautiful in stouts and brown ales as a finisher.


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## bconnery (20/7/06)

> So anybody with opinions on the dry corn syrup in the ale before I write up my final shopping list? /quote]
> 
> Maltodextrin doesn't ferment out fully so it will add body to your beer. It would be a good addition in something like the dark ale you've mentioned.


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## mike_hillyer (20/7/06)

I find it leaves an ice sugar and flour taste but I believe others swear by it. Probably a palate thing. It certainly builds body and promotes head. I personally prefer a combination of powder malt, wheat malt and a really good sugar such as Demera, Raw etc... (Dark is good but has molasses so better in an old) You can invert the sugar. I keep it too around 350 grams for 3kg mix. The wheat malt promotes a head and leaves a nice lacing on the glass when drunk.


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## Jase (20/7/06)

Beefy,

Welcome to AHB........

Things will never be the same .........................  

Cheers,
Jase


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## Beefy (21/7/06)

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I'm still not quite decided on a lot of things. Hallertau comes up frequently for wheat beers, but Saaz is present in Redback and Grumpy's Belgian witbier recipe....... its the sort of things where you can't really go wrong.

Fuggles, Goldings, Northern Brewer - all used frequently, and in the end its a matter of taste and habit. Same with maltodextrin - won't kill the brew, won't necessarily make it 'better'.

At least the advice I've been given is sound, and the choices I'm considering aren't all that bizarre. Guess I'll just make a trip to the store and decide spur-of-the-moment. Its never let me down before!

Thanks again!  



Jase said:


> Beefy,
> 
> Welcome to AHB........
> 
> ...



Erm, thanks, I think?!?


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## mike_hillyer (21/7/06)

Oh I know where you are coming from. I still agonise over decisions. With hops I stuck to the common ones for the style, then I experimented a bit then went back to ones for the style then I experimented a bit etc... 

One non standard combo I like is goldings in a malty 4x style lager. I'm convinced the original 4x is the half brother lager equivalent of an English Bitter. 

Someone said check the freshness, are they in the fridge. If your brew shop man is passionate about beer, he'll treat them like his own kin. I know my supplier in Toodyay W.A would rather go broke than sell you an inferior product.


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## Steve (21/7/06)

Beefy - give the 3kg ESB tins a go also that do 23 litres from the one tin. They are probably half the price of buying two cans of the malt shovel stuff everytime to make up 22 litres.
Cheers
Steve


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## Beefy (21/7/06)

Steve said:


> Beefy - give the 3kg ESB tins a go also that do 23 litres from the one tin. They are probably half the price of buying two cans of the malt shovel stuff everytime to make up 22 litres.
> Cheers
> Steve



Hey Steve,

I got the Malt Shovel at a really good price - $60 for 4 cans, with a free copy of the book 'Brewing Crafts'. The book is just an excuse to promote Westbrew products more than anything else, but it does contain a huge amount of useful information and recipes.

I'm definitely planning to try the ESB kits in the near future after all my current brews are done......


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## mike_hillyer (21/7/06)

The ESB cans are quiet simply sensational. Munton's premuim gold I find equally as good for a british ale but twice the price.


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## Beefy (21/7/06)

keep it real said:


> The ESB cans are quiet simply sensational. Munton's premuim gold I find equally as good for a british ale but twice the price.



Does anybody have any idea where I would be able to browse these in Perth? The shipping costs would be murder!


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## mike_hillyer (21/7/06)

Malthouse in Welshpool sell them from $26 to $29. Just purchased the Bavarian ($26) and I hope to chuck it down today. You get a safale or saflager or safwheat yeast depending on the style. This kit has saflager so I hope to brew it my very cold sleep-out for some genuine lager flavour


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## Steve (21/7/06)

keep it real said:


> Malthouse in Welshpool sell them from $26 to $29. Just purchased the Bavarian ($26) and I hope to chuck it down today. You get a safale or saflager or safwheat yeast depending on the style. This kit has saflager so I hope to brew it my very cold sleep-out for some genuine lager flavour




what was that last sentence? :blink:


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## Beefy (21/7/06)

keep it real said:


> Malthouse in Welshpool sell them from $26 to $29. Just purchased the Bavarian ($26) and I hope to chuck it down today. You get a safale or saflager or safwheat yeast depending on the style. This kit has saflager so I hope to brew it my very cold sleep-out for some genuine lager flavour



I used to drive past Malthouse on my way to uni when I lived with my folks.....

I'll check out their website. I'm keen to see if they have the fresh wort kits as well 

[EDIT] And they do! $39.50 aint too bad either.......


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## Beefy (31/7/06)

Bottled the MSB Summer Wheat, 23L, Saf K-97, 15g Hallertau finishing hops yesterday. Will let you know how it tastes in a couple of weeks!


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## tipsy_mcstagger (23/8/06)

I have done the MSB Wheat a few months ago. was a nice wheat beer, but better when it was young, the wheat flavour tended to diminish over time. drink it young & drink it fast!

I have done the MSB Pale ale to with 1Kg DME & 20g POR hops for 30mins & 15g Cascade for 3mins. was the best beer i have done so far (only on brew 13) but it was good and got better & better. could have put more cascade in though.


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