# Hazards Using Glad-wrap Instead Of Lid.



## Crambo (7/6/11)

I have been warned that using gladwrap instead of the lid with my fermenter can lead to problems with the condensation etc. I currently have a batch of dark lager going in the fridge sitting at 13DegC and am gettig paranoid about it. There is no way i can fit my fermenter in the fridge using a bubbler airlock. Can someone elaborate on the problems with gladwrap and how to prevent them? Cheers


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## .DJ. (7/6/11)

nil problems...

what are the "problems" that you have been advised about?


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## Crambo (7/6/11)

LHBS said to be careful as the condensation can lead to contamination of the brew ?


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## Yob (7/6/11)

.DJ. said:


> nil problems...
> 
> what are the "problems" that you have been advised about?




+1

condensation will occur wether or not you use a lid.. 

cling wrap and relax


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## Florian (7/6/11)

There is no problem with condensation. The condensation that builds up on the glad wrap comes from the air which is already in your fermenter. It's pure water, so no harm if it drops back into your wort/beer. Same thing happens with a lid anyway.


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## .DJ. (7/6/11)

there is condensation, however condensation comes from the wort/air so if your wort isnt infected to begin with I cant see where an infection would come from if your sanistation is up to scratch...
Happy to be corrected....


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## keifer33 (7/6/11)

The condensation is from inside the fermenter so will be the same no matter what 'lid' you decide to use. The only way to garuntee no condensation is to use no lid. Use gladwrap and relax watching your brew.


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## pimpsqueak (7/6/11)

Crambo said:


> LHBS *<----- PROBLEM IDENTIFIED* said to be careful as the condensation can lead to contamination of the brew ?


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## Goofinder (7/6/11)

The biggest hazard with using glad wrap instead of a lid is that little people can poke their fingers through glad wrap. That and if you drop something on the fermenter it won't bounce off the lid.

If it's in a fridge you shouldn't have either of those problems.


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## Pennywise (7/6/11)

Crambo said:


> LHBS said to be careful as the condensation can lead to contamination of the brew ?



Maybe he/she was talking about condensation from the fridge, dripping onto the gladwrap making it heavy, and then falling into the brew?


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## Tim F (7/6/11)

Crambo said:


> LHBS said


there's your problem! 
I cant see why condensation is a problem. It came out of the beer in the first place. Unless your fermenter or glad wrap isn't clean in which case you have problems any way. You get condensation in a fermenter with lid just the same, glad wrap doesn't attract moisture more than other plastics or anything.


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## drtomc (7/6/11)

For a different perspective, consider than when I sanitise my fermenter, I put some no-rinse sanitiser in (e.g. Iodophor or StarSan), pop the lid on and give it a good shake. This means that the inside of the lid is sanitised, and will harbour a minimal number of bugs.

Do you sanitise your cling film before you put it on, or do you do it straight off the roll? If the latter, then there is a *possibility*, depending on the manufacturer, that it might be harbouring bugs. If there are bugs on the cling film then if you get condensation, the bugs will stick to the water and drop in to your beer.

Doesn't sound like a big problem, but I'll keep using my lid thanks. 

T.


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## QldKev (7/6/11)

Crambo said:


> LHBS said to be careful as the condensation can lead to contamination of the brew ?



I think your LHBS sounds retarded

or was he showing you his new super fermenter?


I would be trying to find a new LHBS


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## hsb (7/6/11)

Falling in is possible with gladwrap. Secure footing before checking Krausen.
There must be a poster here somewhere who has done a Krausendunk.








Given the original intent of clingfilm, I'd say you should be OK.

You're probably better off worrying about plasticizers and the environment than rogue condensation bombs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_wrap


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## stef (7/6/11)

Heaps of LHBS bashing in this thread!


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## pimpsqueak (7/6/11)

drtomc said:


> For a different perspective, consider than when I sanitise my fermenter, I put some no-rinse sanitiser in (e.g. Iodophor or StarSan), pop the lid on and give it a good shake. This means that the inside of the lid is sanitised, and will harbour a minimal number of bugs.
> 
> Do you sanitise your cling film before you put it on, or do you do it straight off the roll? If the latter, then there is a *possibility*, depending on the manufacturer, that it might be harbouring bugs. If there are bugs on the cling film then if you get condensation, the bugs will stick to the water and drop in to your beer.
> 
> ...



I also don't sanitise my clingwrap before I wrap up a bit of cheese or half a tomato. Never seen/smelled/tasted any problem there.


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## QldKev (7/6/11)

stef said:


> Heaps of LHBS bashing in this thread!




If the LHBS makes that kind of statement they deserve it.

mmm, hsb has initials very close to LHBS. lets pick on him now  


QldKev


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## Malted (7/6/11)

drtomc said:


> For a different perspective, consider than when I sanitise my fermenter, I put some no-rinse sanitiser in (e.g. Iodophor or StarSan), pop the lid on and give it a good shake. This means that the inside of the lid is sanitised, and will harbour a minimal number of bugs.
> 
> Do you sanitise your cling film before you put it on, or do you do it straight off the roll? If the latter, then there is a *possibility*, depending on the manufacturer, that it might be harbouring bugs. If there are bugs on the cling film then if you get condensation, the bugs will stick to the water and drop in to your beer.
> 
> ...



You'd best brew in a laboratory with HEPA filtered air, deionisers, filtered breathing apparatus, full body suit, gloves, autoclaved ferementer and an aluminium foil hat (just to mention a few precautions). You would possibly emit more 'bugs' from your breath and/or exhaled particulate matter than would be on the cling film. Acknowledged that you said it would not be a big problem. I'm just saying it is not scary enough to not try it.

Bugs on cling film? They'd probably be plastic bugs. But choice eh bro, they've bin banned in Sowth Ozstrayleah. :lol:


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## bum (7/6/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> I also don't sanitise my clingwrap before I wrap up a bit of cheese or half a tomato. Never seen/smelled/tasted any problem there.


Do you store your cheese at 18degC? You might see an issue if you did.

Not saying a gladwrap lid is a bad idea (I do it myself) - just saying drtomc's suggestion isn't a ludicrous one.


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## drtomc (7/6/11)

Malted said:


> Bugs on cling film? They'd probably be plastic bugs. But choice eh bro, they've bin banned in Sowth Ozstrayleah. :lol:



Plastic bugs... For some reason you immediately conjured the memory of the plastic spacemen "ad" from the Goodies. 

I work with DNA for a living, so, yes, I am paranoid. 

T.


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## bignath (7/6/11)

I'm a wrapper too, and no problems here.
I purchased another fermenter yesterday (not from my LHBS) and the first thing i did was throw the lid in the bin. (after removing the rubber seal..)

Sounds like you need to go to a better LHBS.

Mine tried to sell me some Saflager S-23 yesterday when i went in looking for Safale US05.

Knobhead...


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## QldKev (7/6/11)

bum said:


> Do you store your cheese at 18degC? You might see an issue if you did.
> 
> Not saying a gladwrap lid is a bad idea (I do it myself) - just saying drtomc's suggestion isn't a ludicrous one.




Nope by my sandwiches do get up to 18c, and the nuts in the bowl I covered with glad wrap that is sitting in the kitchen would be almost up to 25c (being a 25 degree day) 


QldKev


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## Mayor of Mildura (7/6/11)

hsb said:


> There must be a poster here somewhere who has done a Krausendunk.


I haven't but my cat has. Beer surprisingly turned out fine. Puss puss wasn't real happy.


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## drtomc (7/6/11)

I hope you don't leave your sandwiches for 2 weeks at room temp before you eat them though. Mind you the mould won't be from any bugs that might be on the cling film. 

Your body contains about 100 trillion cells. Your body hosts about 300 trillion bacteria. Do you imagine the tomato is much different? 

T.


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## QldKev (7/6/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> I haven't but my cat has. Beer surprisingly turned out fine. Puss puss wasn't real happy.




did your beer taste like wet pussy


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## yum beer (7/6/11)

hey crambo, if the issue is only the airlock take it out and put a crown top over the hole. problem solved.


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## Mayor of Mildura (7/6/11)

QldKev said:


> did your beer taste like wet pussy


 :lol: I was pulling hairs out of my teeth for ages.


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## schooey (7/6/11)

hsb said:


> Falling in is possible with gladwrap. Secure footing before checking Krausen.
> There must be a poster here somewhere who has done a Krausendunk.



There's your problem...




You didn't wrap the cat first....


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## ekul (7/6/11)

when i was 18 my LHBS told me i had to have an airlock, even with gladwrap lid. So i drilled a hole in the side of the fermenter and held an airlock in place with bluetak. I'm not sure if my beer got infected, it tasted like shit, but i think that was the LHBS's recommendation that i use an aquarium heater to keep my brew @ 24C, rather than infection.


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## bignath (7/6/11)

schooey said:


> There's your problem...
> 
> View attachment 46213
> 
> ...




CAT BE STILL! CAT BE STILL! 

Pizza for Cat?


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## drfad (7/6/11)

schooey said:


> There's your problem...
> 
> View attachment 46213
> 
> ...




"Be still kitty!!"


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## Wolfy (7/6/11)

keifer33 said:


> The condensation is from inside the fermenter so will be the same no matter what 'lid' you decide to use.


So very true, I have no idea of what the LHBS is thinking if they do not think there is condensation under the lid.


Goofinder said:


> The biggest hazard with using glad wrap instead of a lid is that little people can poke their fingers through glad wrap. That and if you drop something on the fermenter it won't bounce off the lid.


Little people, animals and their toys, but if you have a fermenting fridge both of thsoe should not be a problem.


QldKev said:


> or was he showing you his new super fermenter?


I can't imagine that sales of airlocks, lids and gromits make up fro much of their profits, but who knows.


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## redunderthebed (7/6/11)

I put the lid on and cover that with gladwrap poke holes in it with scissors and then wrap an occy strap around it to keep it in place. 

Never had any problems.


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## colonel (7/6/11)

Crambo said:


> I have been warned that using gladwrap instead of the lid with my fermenter can lead to problems with the condensation etc. I currently have a batch of dark lager going in the fridge sitting at 13DegC and am gettig paranoid about it. There is no way i can fit my fermenter in the fridge using a bubbler airlock. Can someone elaborate on the problems with gladwrap and how to prevent them? Cheers


I've become a recent convert to using gladwrap.
Can't believe I spent years washing lids and airlocks for nothing!
No need to poke holes.
Good to see what's going on, too.


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## Bribie G (7/6/11)

My LHBS told me to buy turbo yeast and a metal pot thingo with a condensor thingo at the top and then come back for some little bottles of stuff called Granpaws old hickory southern special etc.


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## beerdrinkingbob (7/6/11)

schooey said:


> There's your problem...
> 
> View attachment 46213
> 
> ...


your a bad boy bubby

Great tits flo (.)(.)!!!!


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## kelbygreen (7/6/11)

My LHBS told me that fermenting beer without temp control with the days peaking at 40 deg was fine they will just finish a little quicker. Quick alright! 2 days ferment 3 days in bottles and your set to drink metho/spew/ some other nastie shit that no one ever wants to taste


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## The Giant (7/6/11)

Only issue I've had with glapwrap was when the Krauzen exploaded and pushed the gladwrap off! Exposing the wort
But all ended up ok
Make sure u sanitize the glad wrap to!

Alternatively what u can do is buy a brigalow airlock thing
Grind the end down a bit and it should fit on top of the fermenter inside ur fridge, this is what I had to do to get my 30l fermenter in the bar fridge
Unfortunately u dont get the awesome blurp blurp from it all the time


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## kelbygreen (7/6/11)

never sanitised it once as far as I knew it already comes sanitised. and for bugs to get inbetween the layers once its opened would be pretty hard. I know there is a possibility of them having something on there, but with no infections yet and god knows how many brews (1-2 a week for over a year and a half with cling wrap) I will keep using it


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## kymba (7/6/11)

Pennywise said:


> Maybe he/she was talking about condensation from the fridge, dripping onto the gladwrap making it heavy, and then falling into the brew?



just flip the old lid upside down (gladwrap being the 'new lid') and rest it in top of the neck of the fv. it should work with any fv that comes with a lid

the beauty with this is you can still attach a grommet and airlock to appease the LHBS, even though it does sweet **** all

recon i should take a big stick into my LHBS and whack him/her on the head every time they leak bullshit...actually i'd better take 2 sticks h34r:


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## Guysmiley54 (7/6/11)

Big Nath said:


> I'm a wrapper too, and no problems here.
> I purchased another fermenter yesterday (not from my LHBS) and the first thing i did was throw the lid in the bin. (after removing the rubber seal..)
> 
> Sounds like you need to go to a better LHBS.
> ...



That kind of stuf makes me so mad!!

How many potential brewers have been sabotaged by this type of shitty "customer service"?


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## QldKev (7/6/11)

No more posting in this thread without boob pics


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## Aus_Rider_22 (7/6/11)

kymba said:


> recon i should take a big stick into my LHBS and whack him/her on the head every time they leak bullshit...actually i'd better take 2 sticks h34r:



You might end up turning into Lars Ulrich around some of the LHBS that have been mentioned on here!


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## bignath (7/6/11)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> You might end up turning into Lars Ulrich around some of the LHBS that have been mentioned on here!




But atleast there would be Justice For All......








*waits nervously as the brewing brethren gather in their flame suits at this particularly shit joke...


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## Bribie G (7/6/11)

QldKev said:


> No more posting in this thread without boob pics
> 
> View attachment 46228



Totally agree


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## kelbygreen (7/6/11)

HAHA classic bribie


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## Blackapple (7/6/11)

schooey said:


> There's your problem...
> 
> View attachment 46213
> 
> ...




Laura palmer.....


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## Lecterfan (7/6/11)

Big Nath said:


> *waits nervously as the brewing brethren gather in their flame suits at this particularly shit joke...




Sad but true.


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## bum (7/6/11)

Big Nath said:


> flame suits


I don't think that means what you think it means.


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## kymba (7/6/11)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> You might end up turning into Lars Ulrich around some of the LHBS that have been mentioned on here!



erm...more like Dave Lombardo, especially here in qld - way more hardercore here!!!

lars would be NSW sound lol



sorry, forgot tits


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## ploto (8/6/11)

I always wondered what the top half of your avatar looked like kymba... Curiosity has killed this cat and wrapped it up in glad wrap. Thanks.


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## Maxt (9/6/11)

drtomc said:


> Do you sanitise your cling film before you put it on, or do you do it straight off the roll? If the latter, then there is a *possibility*, depending on the manufacturer, that it might be harbouring bugs. )
> 
> T.



Now I have truly heard it all.

For the record, I don't use airlocks or gladwrap, just rest the lid on. Never had an airborne infection in 15 years of brewing.


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## bum (9/6/11)

Hear that, kids? Infections don't happen. Glad we got that sorted.


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## fraser_john (9/6/11)

I just wanted to post some boobs

Moderate me baby


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## QldKev (9/6/11)

fraser_john said:


> I just wanted to post some boobs
> 
> Moderate me baby



man you should report yourself for that pic :icon_vomit:


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## fraser_john (9/6/11)

QldKev said:


> man you should report yourself for that pic :icon_vomit:



Wonderful, the desired effect


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## michael_aussie (9/6/11)

omg .. my eyes 
my eyes

you should have warned us you bastard....


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## [email protected] (9/6/11)

id still give those a suckle.... :super:


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## Pennywise (9/6/11)

You wouldn't have a choice, they's all nipple


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## Oatlands Brewer (9/6/11)

No glad wrap here.....These boys can brew a bit too.


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## kelbygreen (9/6/11)

yes open fermentation is around prob not so much as it used to but from what I have seen you need fermentation to start fast and when it dies down you have to transfer to finish it off. As the yeast extract co2 so while fermenting there is a blanket of c02 over the wort but if left to long then the risk of infection is great so they have to be strict with how they do it. I wanted to try it once but I dont have time to go oh now I gotto transfer it. By the time I figured that out it be to late


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## Spork (9/6/11)

Wineries usually (?) use open fermentation for primary too.
"Cheap" sparkling / champagne is carbonated in a closed FV, but thats the secondary.
The good sparkling wine / champagne is bottle conditioned.
Layer of CO2 seems to work for them.
I believe White Rabbit (Victoria) use open fermentation for their beers too.

Layer of glad wrap works for me.


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## rendo (9/6/11)

The only hazard of cling wrap is that:

1) You will really like it, in fact, like it so much that it will become hazardous to your fermenter lid as you will likely chuck it out or neglect it and never use it again.
2) Your fermeneter lid will feel lonely and rejected
3) You will wonder why you didnt break up with your lid sooner and switch to cling wrap

Hazardous stuff is good ol' cling wrap....


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## kelbygreen (9/6/11)

LOL rendo thats good


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## Samuel Adams (9/6/11)

Another thing to be "out of" on brew day


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## slapbass351 (10/6/11)

What is it with LHBS operators and not having a F...... clue about brewing, mine doesn't even brew. I ask for some advice on some product and get the reply " Ahhh....Emmmm....Ahhh...This is a good product.....It ahhh....What does the instructions say....." I'm an amature brewer to say the least but i'm finding i know more about brewing and have more interest than them...WTF LHBS Owners! What a great way to send there customers out the door empty handed and look elswhere for stuff....Sorry, bit off topic but had to VENT!


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## earle (10/6/11)

Damo + Beer = Happy said:


> What is it with LHBS operators and not having a F...... clue about brewing, mine doesn't even brew. I ask for some advice on some product and get the reply " Ahhh....Emmmm....Ahhh...This is a good product.....It ahhh....What does the instructions say....." I'm an amature brewer to say the least but i'm finding i know more about brewing and have more interest than them...WTF LHBS Owners! What a great way to send there customers out the door empty handed and look elswhere for stuff....Sorry, bit off topic but had to VENT!



Whats that saying about cooks - never trust a skinny one. Perhaps there should be a similar saying about LHBS - never trust one that doesn't brew.


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## drfad (10/6/11)

earle said:


> Whats that saying about cooks - never trust a skinny one. Perhaps there should be a similar saying about LHBS - never trust one that doesn't brew.




Never trust a sober one?


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## earle (10/6/11)

drfad said:


> Never trust a sober one?


Never trust a sober homebrewer. :lol:


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## argon (10/6/11)

Oatlands Brewer said:


> No glad wrap here.....These boys can brew a bit too.



So you also brew in a hermetically sealed environment with positive air pressure through HEPA filtered mechanical air systems? Nice.


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## Thirsty Boy (10/6/11)

I dont understand the level of "poo poo" ing when someone suggested that it might be an idea to sanitise your cling wrap. What is it with homebrewers and trying to get away with being slack about sanitation?

You are putting beer into your fermenter, so while you are doing that... Squirt a little sanitiser onto the cling wrap yiu are about to use as a lid (If you dont already have a container of sanitiser on the bench at this point in time, then your opinion is ipso-facto irrelevant). It takes a grand total of about 3 seconds. How hard is that?

I sanitise everything, absolutely everything, that might come into contact with my beer at any point in its lifecycle after it cools down from boiling, and i just cant understand it when people dont.

Yes, the risk is very small - but its not zero, and the effort to make the issue simply not exist is so damn small.... How lazy can you possibly be?


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## Malted (10/6/11)

drtomc said:


> I work with DNA for a living, so, yes, I am paranoid.



Bloody hell, I am made up of DNA! Are you in my office here somewhere? Now you are making me nervous. *looks cautiosly around to see if drtomc is hiding somewhere*



Thirsty Boy said:


> I dont understand the level of "poo poo" ing
> 
> I sanitise everything, absolutely everything, that might come into contact with my beer at any point in its lifecycle after it cools down from boiling, and i just cant understand it when people dont.



Maybe post #28 will help you http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry780109

Like your mouth is gunna come into contact with the beer, should you sterilise that man? Yeah man, do you sterilise your yeast? Acid washing my yeast is not my bag baby, the acid is for me man! Peace out dudes...


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## Thirsty Boy (10/6/11)

Malted said:


> . . . Like your mouth is gunna come into contact with the beer, should you sterilise that man? . . .



I like to brush my teeth and use mouthwash yes..... Plainly you think they are optional


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## Malted (10/6/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I like to brush my teeth and use mouthwash yes..... Plainly you think they are optional



Yeah but beer tastes real awful after you brush your teeth. That means you are drinking beer after breakfast (which I must admit I like to do from time to time) or have a beer on the bedside table? 
Generally I brush my teeth no where near the time I am drinking beer.

Oh and here's another ablution tip. Don't brush your teeth in the shower. I did ONCE. I dribbled a bit of foamy toothpaste onto my, er, um, knob and it burnt like all heck. Drinking beer in the shower is ok though; it's pretty much the same process as when drinking beer in a pool except you don't have to feel bad about peeing yourself.


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## Tim F (10/6/11)

Damo + Beer = Happy said:


> What is it with LHBS operators and not having a F...... clue about brewing, mine doesn't even brew. I ask for some advice on some product and get the reply " Ahhh....Emmmm....Ahhh...This is a good product.....It ahhh....What does the instructions say....." I'm an amature brewer to say the least but i'm finding i know more about brewing and have more interest than them...WTF LHBS Owners! What a great way to send there customers out the door empty handed and look elswhere for stuff....Sorry, bit off topic but had to VENT!



While I was waiting in my LHBS the other day the guy before me comes in before me and says he wants to brew a lager. The guy gives him a packet of lager yeast and tells him to ferment it at room temperature 'it'll be fine'. Then I ask if he has WLP007. 'Errr... I have *some other random yeast with a number containing a 7*'


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## ben_sa (10/6/11)

Tim F said:


> While I was waiting in my LHBS the other day the guy before me comes in before me and says he wants to brew a lager. The guy gives him a packet of lager yeast and tells him to ferment it at room temperature 'it'll be fine'. Then I ask if he has WLP007. 'Errr... I have *some other random yeast with a number containing a 7*'



Hmmmmm 
**runs to the whitepages to find any LHBS in the hills**  Not going there anytime soon!!


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