# Scared Of Iodophor



## wimbymoonshine (9/11/07)

Hi All,

I generally use a 'napisan' type steriliser, however from what i read on here i just switched to a no-rinse option - iodophor.

Problem, i got a 250ml jar for 5 (about AU$12). It came in a plastic bag with a 'brupaks' label on it saying the recommended dose was 10ml/L.
The HBS i got it from stated the dosage should be 5ml/L
The article on sterilising on this website says the dosage should be 1ml/L.

When i got it out it was the colour of iodine and smelt pungent; not wanting to overdose i used the 1ml/L - filled up the kitchen sink and sanitised my bottles by siphoning some of it in each bottle, slushing it around and letting it stand for 10mins. The colour of the mix was quite pale, like watered down apple juice id say.

Now advice on this site and the article state iodophor is a 'no rinse' sanitiser. HOwever the brupaks label read 'rinse thoroughly before use'. So because it smelt like sh1t i rinsed all the bottles out.

Questions - WTF is with all the conflicting info? Whats right and what's wrong? at 10ml/L if i fill a fermenter with 5L (about 1/4 full) according to the distributor i will have to use 50ml per go, meaning i only get 5 sanitations out of it. Now for my 5 thats a joke! AND i have to rinse it???

Confused and hate iodophor. HELP?


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## milpod (9/11/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I generally use a 'napisan' type steriliser, however from what i read on here i just switched to a no-rinse option - iodophor.
> 
> ...


 

iodophor,is a great sanitiser.Keep it tea coloured and it's good

Loose colour and it becomes less affective,at the same colour as water and prolly promotes germs.

Wimby wats on tap?


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## Gerard_M (9/11/07)

Firstly, why did you change your methods? 
Did you have a problem? 
Ain't broke, don't fix it!

When it comes to Iodophor you can ask 5 different people & get 8 different answers. I never use it on bottles but if I use iodophor at home, I always rinse. I read some stuff ages ago in some uni notes that talked about it leaving a taint in beer & that was enough for me. In commercial breweries we don't use iodophor, that should give you a clue. Bottles on a bottling line generally get a squirt sterilant followed by a squirt of triple filtered water, whilst upside down so that they can drain before filling.
I do know of a certain HBS owner that reckons you can out hop the iodophor taint, which means he sells heaps of hops & iodophor!
Cheers
Gerard


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## Tony (9/11/07)

I have used the stuff for years and love it.

1ml/liter is the go.

I buy it in 1 liter bottles and the cap holds 10mls. I use 1 capfull in 10 liters

I let it soak in the firmenter for 20 min. I give it a swirl to wet everything inside a couple of times and never had a problem.

as for no rinse...... it does have a bit of a smell if you want to use it strait after soaking but i have never had a problem. rinsing is not a problem IMO. people fill theit kit brews from the tap and no infection....... whats the difference with rinsing?

I never steralise my bottles. I rinse them out with hot water strait after drinking and let dry upside down over night. I then just rinse them out with a bit of boiling water just before bottleing.......once again.... no problems.

Steralising bottles is a pain in the arse and time is of the essence in my life.

hope this helps.

here is a link to some reliable info from where i get it

cheers

http://www.esbeer.com.au/category41_1.htm


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## kevnlis (9/11/07)

I also use 1 ml per litre, but I do that right before use, everything gets a spray at that concentration within seconds of being used. I use napisan to clean and steralise, then storte it untiol I need it, then spray with the 1 ml/L Iodophor right before use. I hope that makes sense, I have not had a single infection or beer that tasted different than it should or any sort of problem with cleaning or sanitisation in over 4 years.


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## mika (9/11/07)

kevnlis said:


> ......everything gets a spray at that concentration within seconds of being used....



Used to do this, now not so sure. I think Iodophor needs a reasonable amount of contact time, like a minute or more to guarantee everything's dead.

I dose at 1mL/L as the bottle says, if your's says to use more I'd tend to go with that in case you have a more dilute solution. Supposedly Iodophor at 1mL/L is safe to use 'no-rinse' in higher concentrations, not so safe apparently. I've sanitised a cup and then didn't rinse before adding water and drinking it. There is a taste difference, though can't comment on whether it'll taint your beer as I always rinse.


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## Screwtop (9/11/07)

It's effective at 1ml/L and no rinse at that concentration, think from memory contact time is 20 sec, check out some of the Basic Brewing/Brewing Network Podcasts on sanitisation/iodophor. There is a good Basic Brewing interview with Charlie Tally of Fivestar Chemicals the manufacturers of Starsan, he even advocates the use of dilute bleach (diluted with water first) solution with white vinegar added to bring the PH down as an excellect no rinse sanitiser. No sense mixing a stronger concentration of Iodophor, can't kill things deader than dead.

Screwy


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## Sammus (9/11/07)

The concentrate you buy differs in concentration - so I'd go off the manufactures specs


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## wimbymoonshine (10/11/07)

milpod said:


> iodophor,is a great sanitiser.Keep it tea coloured and it's good
> 
> Loose colour and it becomes less affective,at the same colour as water and prolly promotes germs.
> 
> Wimby wats on tap?



Thanks milpod, however i can make tea whatever colour i want  bit more specific? compare it to a beer maybe? 

Its belgian wit beer on tap at the mo... Golden ale in the fermenter. Temps dropping in the UK so got a czech pils planned followed by bavarian style lager! YUM!



Sammus said:


> The concentrate you buy differs in concentration - so I'd go off the manufactures specs



Thanks sammus. I think at 10ml/L it will be too concentrated and will cost a fortune. I picked iodophor coz of what i heard about the no-rinse business. I wasnt aware that it would smell like poo. So im going to switch to a H2O2 based one as the peroxide breaks down to harmless 02 and Water. Or i could just rinse and stay with napisan. Someone said it right earlier, if it aint broke dont fix it.....

ON that note, im starting another thread on how bottling day ruins my brewing joys and how to make it fun without getting drunk......

Cheers


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## Thunderlips (10/11/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> I wasnt aware that it would smell like poo


Maybe my nose isn't what it used to be but I certainly can't smell any bad adours from the iodopher I've been using.
I too use it at 1ml per litre and swirl 2 litres around in my fermenters for a couple of minutes before use, swapping from one fermenter to another.
Never had a problem.


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## Thirsty Boy (10/11/07)

If it smells so bad... I think the concentration must be too high.

I've used Iodophor for ages. 1ml per litre. The colour of weak tea (not all that helpful I know) and it has basically no smell and no taste at that concentration

I sanitise fermentors and bottles by giving them a swirl in the stuff, draining them out a bit and using straight away without rinsing. By the time the film of liquid (which to a bacterium is a virtual ocean) dissipates... thats plenty more contact time than the 20 or so seconds that are required. You don't have to fill things and leave them standing. I normally sanitise bottles by baking them, but have done it with iodophor plenty of times, once again, never rinsing ... If you are going to rinse with anything other than boiled water, there's not much point sanitising in the first place, as soon as you rinse... its unsanitised immediately.

I mainly use Starsan these days, but every 4 or 5 brews I will swap back to Iodophor to make sure that the bugs don't build up too much resistance to one type of sanitiser. I also do the bleach and vinegar thing, which at the appropriate concentration is just as effective as any other sanitiser, and also no rinse

If there is any flavour taint... then its one that I cant detect and no one has ever pointed out. And I beg to differ with Gerard_M a little.. I have heard several commercial brewers speak about sanitising with iodophor products and seen them advertised in brewing trade journals as well.

But what the hell ... the h202 stuff will work, and if you like it better.... keep the iodophor for doing starch tests and the occasional brew just to shake the bugs out of their comfort zone

Thirsty


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## wimbymoonshine (10/11/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> If it smells so bad... I think the concentration must be too high.
> 
> I've used Iodophor for ages. 1ml per litre. The colour of weak tea (not all that helpful I know) and it has basically no smell and no taste at that concentration
> 
> ...



Thank you, Sir. Sound and thorough advice taken with great appreciation!

Cheers


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## devo (10/11/07)

Thunderlips said:


> Maybe my nose isn't what it used to be but I certainly can't smell any bad adours from the iodopher I've been using.
> I too use it at 1ml per litre and swirl 2 litres around in my fermenters for a couple of minutes before use, swapping from one fermenter to another.
> Never had a problem.



dito


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## KoNG (10/11/07)

devo said:


> dito



+2
although i do note a very faint odour...


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## PostModern (10/11/07)

It does have a slight aroma. By the time it's just a film on the object being sanitised, then dilutes with the beer, you'll have about 1 part iodine per hundred billion plus of beer. It's like saying you can smell the barley farmer's aftershave in the mash.


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## Bobby (10/11/07)

i also rinse after i use iodopher


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## kevnlis (10/11/07)

PostModern said:


> It does have a slight aroma. By the time it's just a film on the object being sanitised, then dilutes with the beer, you'll have about 1 part iodine per hundred billion plus of beer. It's like saying you can smell the barley farmer's aftershave in the mash.



Yeah you have to be careful of that one, when you mix the smell of the farmers aftershave with the iodophor flavour in the beer, you come home late at night from the pub smelling of ladies perfume.

Just ask my wife...


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## chris.taylor.98 (10/11/07)

Bobby said:


> i also rinse after i use iodopher



Bobby what do you rinse with?

The whole point of iodophor is that it is a sanitiser. If you rinse with non-sanitary water ( ie tap water ) you have achieved nothing.

I would recommend not rinsing at all ( saves on water, but also ensures no new opportunity for microbes to be introduced ).

If you have to rinse make sure it is recently boiled water.


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## chris.taylor.98 (10/11/07)

Attached is some more information about sanatising that was given at one of the Melbourne Brewers club meet.

Interestingly you can also use bleach in low concentrations as a no rinse sanitiser, but iodophor is generally consider the best choice.

In regards to the dilution rate, you really need to know the concentration of the solution that you are diluting. 

Ideally you want to end up with a concentration of 12.5 ppm. 

View attachment Cleaning_and_Sanitation_Handout.pdf


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## Ross (10/11/07)

Personally I hate Idophor... I don't like the smell or the way it stains everything.
It obviously works & plenty of people swear by it, but I reckon there are far better products on the market.


Cheers Ross


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## pint of lager (10/11/07)

Iodophor is great stuff and cheap. Go in a bulk buy with some fellow brewers and have plenty for the next few years. Make sure you understand the difference between clean, sanitised and sterile. Also check the concentration of your supplied product and mix it up correctly. 

The full strength iodophor will stain everything, diluted and in the correct concentration, it may give a mild stain to plastic, but this will come out with a soak with bleach or napisan.

Like Ross said, there are plenty of alternatives and we all should change our cleaners and sanitisers to keep the bugs on their toes.

If people are worried about the flavour tainting the beer, sanitise up a fermenter, drain upside down, fill with tap water and then do a blind tasting with the water from your fermenter and a glass of tap water.

Iodine is a necessary part of our diet. It prevents cretinism.


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## Tony M (10/11/07)

Cant remember the details but I read an article a couple of years ago about a bloke in the States who sat his mates down with a glass of beer and started adding idophor to the glasses and slowly increased the concentration. By the time the iodine was detectable, the concentration was many times over that which you could possibly get using the stuff in normal circumstances. Maybe the brew tasted lousy anyway or they all got pissed.
Anyway, it works for me and I dont rinse. I use 1ml in 500ml only because my squirty bottle is 500 and the smallest I can measure is 1ml


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## reVoxAHB (10/11/07)

Tony M said:


> Cant remember the details but I read an article a couple of years ago about a bloke in the States who sat his mates down with a glass of beer and started adding idophor to the glasses and slowly increased the concentration. By the time the iodine was detectable, the concentration was many times over that which you could possibly get using the stuff in normal circumstances.




I have a feeling this is the article you are referring to. 

I'm one of those who 'swear by' iodophor and no-rinse. Couldn't give a stuff if my ferm fridge, buckets, gear etc. is off-orange coloured from continual iodophor use.

reVox


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## wimbymoonshine (10/11/07)

Ross said:


> Personally I hate Idophor... I don't like the smell or the way it stains everything.
> It obviously works & plenty of people swear by it, but I reckon there are far better products on the market.
> Cheers Ross



Ross any reccomendations for non-staining, non-stinky, no rinse options?


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## pint of lager (10/11/07)

Hydrogen peroxide.


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## mika (10/11/07)

How about visit his site, he might even sell a sanitiser


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## Kai (11/11/07)

"No-rinse" sanitisers generally do require rinsing when used at higher concentrations; I would expect that is the motivation behind the usage advice on the label. I've never used iodophor myself, but even when using a no-rinse sanitiser I almost always follow it with a boiling water rinse.


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## Ross (11/11/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> Ross any reccomendations for non-staining, non-stinky, no rinse options?



I use Starsan for soaking & hydrogen peroxide on brew day. Either work great, but Starsan i find best for sanitising fermenters, cubes etc, as it's high foaming & makes coating your equipment with a small amount of product very easy. H2O2 in the spray bottle on brewday for all those little jobs....

Cheers Ross


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## mika (11/11/07)

Kai said:


> .... I've never used iodophor myself....



Liar !


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## BEC26 (11/11/07)

Ross said:


> I use Starsan for soaking & hydrogen peroxide on brew day. Either work great, but Starsan i find best for sanitising fermenters, cubes etc, as it's high foaming & makes coating your equipment with a small amount of product very easy. H2O2 in the spray bottle on brewday for all those little jobs....
> 
> Cheers Ross




Hi Ross

What dilution do you use with the Hydrogen peroxide?? How many mls per litre??

Cheers

Bruce


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## Ross (11/11/07)

BEC26 said:


> Hi Ross
> 
> What dilution do you use with the Hydrogen peroxide?? How many mls per litre??
> 
> ...



i use a product called Hysan. It's 12% H2O2. I dilute it to approx 5ml per litre when using my tank water, but it's effective from 1ml/L using distilled/RO water.

Cheers Ross


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## Kai (11/11/07)

mika_lika said:


> Liar !




Oops! Okay, once or twice. Or more if you count the time I tried to "roll my own" with betadine, orthophosphoric acid and detergent.


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## Screwtop (26/11/07)

Screwtop said:


> It's effective at 1ml/L and no rinse at that concentration, think from memory contact time is 20 sec, check out some of the Basic Brewing/Brewing Network Podcasts on sanitisation/iodophor. There is a good Basic Brewing interview with Charlie Tally of Fivestar Chemicals the manufacturers of Starsan, he even advocates the use of dilute bleach (diluted with water first) solution with white vinegar added to bring the PH down as an excellect no rinse sanitiser. No sense mixing a stronger concentration of Iodophor, can't kill things deader than dead.
> 
> Screwy




Further to the above, have been using more Iodophor lately as phos acid is running low, and I use it for cleaning the SS bits in my brewery. Revising the use I listened to the Basic Brewing Podcast from the 22nd March 07 again on sanitising using Iodophor. Merle Landman of National Chemicals who manufacture BTF Brand Iodophor, discusses the usage of Iodophor as a sanitiser for home brewing. He says the usage rate should be 12.5ppm for sanitisation up to 25ppm for disinfecting. At the sanitising rate of 12.5ppm Iodophor is rinse and stain free, at the disinfecting rate of 25ppm it will stain and also should be rinsed if coming in contact with food. So I wondered what rate I'm using it at.

Well if 12.5 PPM thats 12.5 ml in 1,000,000 ml correct? So devided by 1000 we get .0125 ml per Litre thats one 80th of 1 ml. At 25 PPM it is 25ml in 1,000,000 ml and that devided by 1000 to get a per litre rate of .025 or one 40th of 1 ml. If my poor maths are correct then I'm using way too much at 1ml per litre.

What usage rate are others using?????


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## therook (26/11/07)

Screwtop said:


> Further to the above, have been using more Iodophor lately as phos acid is running low, and I use it for cleaning the SS bits in my brewery. Revising the use I listened to the Basic Brewing Podcast from the 22nd March 07 again on sanitising using Iodophor. Merle Landman of National Chemicals who manufacture BTF Brand Iodophor, discusses the usage of Iodophor as a sanitiser for home brewing. He says the usage rate should be 12.5ppm for sanitisation up to 25ppm for disinfecting. At the sanitising rate of 12.5ppm Iodophor is rinse and stain free, at the disinfecting rate of 25ppm it will stain and also should be rinsed if coming in contact with food. So I wondered what rate I'm using it at.
> 
> Well if 12.5 PPM thats 12.5 ml in 1,000,000 ml correct? So devided by 1000 we get .0125 ml per Litre thats one 80th of 1 ml. At 25 PPM it is 25ml in 1,000,000 ml and that devided by 1000 to get a per litre rate of .025 or one 40th of 1 ml. If my poor maths are correct then I'm using way too much at 1ml per litre.
> 
> What usage rate are others using?????




Same as you Screwy

rook


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## newguy (26/11/07)

Retailer's instructions.
Interesting discussion of flavour threshold of iodophor solution.


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## pint of lager (26/11/07)

It depends on your concentration of iodine.

I use 10% povidone iodine solution as supplied in a Batadine bottle at the rate of 2.5ml per litre. Contact time of 10 minutes. Have a bucket on the brew bench with a fill mark of 5 litres, add 12.5ml using a syringe and anything small gets dumped in the bucket. Fermenters have a litre or so poured in, swished a few times over 10 minutes, then drain back into the bucket, stand fermenter upside down to thoroughly drain and use it wet.

Check what concentration you have on your bottle.

Iodine evaporates fairly quickly.


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## SJW (26/11/07)

> What usage rate are others using?????


After hearing the podcast I cut it back to 1ml per litre and do not rinse. I have been using this stuff for years and have had no noticable infections.

Steve


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## agraham (26/11/07)

1ml per litre here and no infections to speak of.


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## Screwtop (26/11/07)

pint of lager said:


> It depends on your concentration of iodine.
> 
> I use 10% povidone iodine solution as supplied in a Batadine bottle at the rate of 2.5ml per litre. Contact time of 10 minutes. Have a bucket on the brew bench with a fill mark of 5 litres, add 12.5ml using a syringe and anything small gets dumped in the bucket. Fermenters have a litre or so poured in, swished a few times over 10 minutes, then drain back into the bucket, stand fermenter upside down to thoroughly drain and use it wet.
> 
> ...



The brand I am using is Dalaval, re the concentration POL below are the registered details from the NRA Gazette No. 3 5 March 2002 page 4



> Product Name: Delaval Iodophor LF12 Milking Machine Sanitiser
> Active Constituent/s: 12 g/L iodine, 252 g/L phosphoric acid 81%
> Applicant Name: Delaval Pty Ltd
> Applicant ACN: 004 210 459
> ...





SJW said:


> After hearing the podcast I cut it back to 1ml per litre and do not rinse. I have been using this stuff for years and have had no noticable infections.
> 
> Steve





agraham said:


> 1ml per litre here and no infections to speak of.



Am not worried about the effectiveness, only trying to eliminate staining and to a lesser extent the possibility of needing to Rinse.

At 1/2 fl oz (US) thats 14.787 ml per (5 US Gallons) 18.927L. At that rate 12.5ppm I need .781ml/L and 25ppm = 1.56 ml/L so I guess that I've satisfied myself from this information that at 1ml/L I'm less than the disinfecting rate and there is no need to rinse, but I could cut down a little to 1ml/1.25L to reduce staining.

Cheers and thanks for the replies, Screwy


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## bindi (26/11/07)

.781ml/L OK  I am happy to use a little less, made up 5L with 5ml for my brew day today that's 1.095ml too much for 5L.


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## MHB (26/11/07)

Screwtop
I suspect he was referring to the concentration of Iodine; rather than to the stock solution.

The drum I have says:-
120 g/L Phosphoric Acid
20 g/L Available Iodine

Further it recommends a dilution of 15 mL / 10 L of cold water or 1.5 mL/L.

That gives a concentration of 0.03 g/L or 30 PPM (available Iodine)
This is double the concentration that the link recommends; but those dilutions are for dairy and milk machines.

The instructions also say to rinse off with cold water - personally I would be a little reluctant to regard any Hyalogen as no rinse.

MHB


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## Screwtop (26/11/07)

MHB said:


> Screwtop
> I suspect he was referring to the concentration of Iodine; rather than to the stock solution.
> 
> The drum I have says:-
> ...



Thanks, was that the Dalaval brand Mark? Bloody confusing stuff, in the podcast Merle Landman of National Chemicals states that staining should not be a problem if using Iodophor at the 12.5ppm (Sanitisation) rate and that the product is grossly overused in the homebrew community. Will try at 1ml/1.25L and see if the staining is reduced.



bindi said:


> that's 1.095ml too much for 5L.



Geez Bindi you keep wasting it like that and you'll have none left. :lol:


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## crozdog (26/11/07)

MHB,

re "Hyalogen".... When I google it I get the following:
hyalogen (h-l-jn) n. Any of various insoluble substances related to mucoids occurring in structures such as cartilage, vitreous humor, and hydatid cysts and yielding sugars on hydrolysis. 

How does this relate to the use of Iodophor as a sanitiser? Is Iodophor a hyalogen? (do we care?  )

Thanks in advance


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/11/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I generally use a 'napisan' type steriliser, however from what i read on here i just switched to a no-rinse option - iodophor.
> 
> ...




Go here http://www.detergentmarketing.com/data/pic.../iodophorns.pdf and read the MSDS. I use a similar product at work and at the rate of 1-1.5mm per ltr max. It is wicked gear but a great product for "sanatisng" not to be confused for serilising. I only apply it just prior to transfering wine to a tank or before using my brewing gear. From what I am lead to believe, if it mixed up to early it will break down in the water and basically be useless.

BYB

BYB


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## Belgrave Brewer (26/11/07)

I'm a big fan Iodophur. Dilute, soak and 'no rinse'. No hassle, no flavour, no odor, no worries!!!! 

Never had an infected brew since using it. 

Besides, nothing wrong with a little iodine in your system. :icon_drunk: 

The only downside I can see is long term contact does stain plastic. 

BB


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## Screwtop (26/11/07)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Go here http://www.detergentmarketing.com/data/pic.../iodophorns.pdf and read the MSDS. I use a similar product at work and at the rate of 1-1.5mm per ltr max. It is wicked gear but a great product for "sanatisng" not to be confused for serilising. I only apply it just prior to transfering wine to a tank or before using my brewing gear. From what I am lead to believe, if it mixed up to early it will break down in the water and basically be useless.
> 
> BYB
> 
> BYB



Andrew a Link here re testing of Iodophor solution over time. Looks effective like shelf life is about 3 weeks max once diluted.

Screwy


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## NRB (26/11/07)

I think he meant "Halogen".



crozdog said:


> re "Hyalogen".... When I google it I get the following:
> hyalogen (h-l-jn) n. Any of various insoluble substances related to mucoids occurring in structures such as cartilage, vitreous humor, and hydatid cysts and yielding sugars on hydrolysis.
> 
> How does this relate to the use of Iodophor as a sanitiser? Is Iodophor a hyalogen? (do we care?  )
> ...


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## Sammus (26/11/07)

MHB said:


> Screwtop
> I suspect he was referring to the concentration of Iodine; rather than to the stock solution.
> 
> The drum I have says:-
> ...




No need to rinse - Iodine sublimes at room temperature!


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## Darren (26/11/07)

NRB said:


> I think he meant "Halogen".




hahahaha, 

Yep it is halogen

cheers

Darren


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## MHB (26/11/07)

Halogen
Any of the five electronegative elements, namely fluorine, chlorine, iodine, bromine, or astatine

MHB - with chronic fat finger syndrome

Edit after reading the above and getting over the embarrassment

Dont you hate it when you are rushing and the spellchecker changes things when you're not looking, then again I never said I could spell.

Screwtop
No, I went for one that was nearly twice as strong and it only costs a little more (about $15 for 25L more)
20g/l as apposed to 12g/l (if you want the supplier or MSDS you can PM me).

Sammus
Yes it does, its the standard way to purify the stuff, but it generally takes months for about 100g sitting in a closed bottle to recondense around the neck - I think that waiting until you are sure it has all sublimed away would be an interesting exercise in patience.
The other point to consider is - is it molecular I2 that is left as a residue? I suspect that the Nitric Acid and the Iodine are forming an association and that you can't assume that the solution will behave like the constituent parts taken in isolation.

My concern it for the formation of Iodophenol's, anything reactive enough to be an effective sanitiser is going to be reactive enough to form other bonds - and I have yet to meet a pleasant HALOGEN  compound.

The one between Chlorine and Iodine is Bromine from Bromos Greek for the stench given off by male goats

I just think a quick rinse off with boiled water is all that is called for on the better safe than sorry principle.

M


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## wimbymoonshine (3/12/07)

MHB said:


> Halogen
> Any of the five electronegative elements, namely fluorine, chlorine, iodine, bromine, or astatine
> 
> MHB - with chronic fat finger syndrome
> ...


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## wimbymoonshine (3/12/07)

MHB said:


> Halogen
> Any of the five electronegative elements, namely fluorine, chlorine, iodine, bromine, or astatine
> 
> MHB - with chronic fat finger syndrome
> ...



Very accurate and informative Prof MHB!! 
But after all that, i still hate iodophor, it smells like shit, stains everything and..... i just dont like it!

I am also not convinced that filling a fermenter 1/5 full and sloshing it around does the job. With my 'napisan' type sanitiser i fill the fermenter to the brim and put eveything that needs sanitising insider. Full contact for a decent amount of time...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesnt satisfy me!


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## Fatgodzilla (3/12/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> ...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesn't satisfy me!



Science has never satisfied me either.


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## recharge (3/12/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> With my 'napisan' type sanitiser i fill the fermenter to the brim and put eveything that needs sanitising insider. Full contact for a decent amount of time...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesnt satisfy me!



I do this AND use Iodophor at 1ml L none of my fermentors are yellow 

Rich


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## Stuster (3/12/07)

> - and I have yet to meet a pleasant HALOGEN  compound.



Not even table salt.


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## Screwtop (3/12/07)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Science has never satisfied me either.




Me neither any result from the calculator or Excel, I check with paper and pencil


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## SpillsMostOfIt (3/12/07)

I wonder if anyone using the Malt Shovel fermenters can comment on Iodophors staining them?

Sorry, just had to. :unsure:


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## Screwtop (3/12/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> Very accurate and informative Prof MHB!!
> But after all that, i still hate iodophor, it smells like shit, stains everything and..... i just dont like it!
> 
> I am also not convinced that filling a fermenter 1/5 full and sloshing it around does the job. With my 'napisan' type sanitiser i fill the fermenter to the brim and put eveything that needs sanitising insider. Full contact for a decent amount of time...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesnt satisfy me!




Sorry but napisan (sodium percarbonate) is not a sanitiser. Tons of info on here re use of Sodium Percarbonate for cleaning. Also Phosphoric Acid, Iodine, Household Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite), vinegar, Hydrogen Peroxide, and combinations for use as no rinse sanitiser.

Do a search, some of the results may satisfy you.

Every Brewer has an opinion Wimb, here's mine. If you experience an infection, use bleach to clean everything, pull everything apart and soak it in bleach solution. Once under control after use, dismantle and CLEAN with Napisan, air dry and store in a clean environment. Before use sanitise using a non rinse sanitiser for the required contact time. Cleaning is up there in importance with Sanitising. Oh, and trust in science, your using it to communicate with thousands of brewers to assist your brewing knowledge.

Cheers Screwy


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## wimbymoonshine (3/12/07)

Screwtop said:


> Sorry but napisan (sodium percarbonate) is not a sanitiser. Tons of info on here re use of Sodium Percarbonate for cleaning. Also Phosphoric Acid, Iodine, Household Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite), vinegar, Hydrogen Peroxide, and combinations for use as no rinse sanitiser.
> 
> Do a search, some of the results may satisfy you.
> 
> ...



Great advise screwy... I think i may have a go at the peroxide based no rinse ones. I like the idea of peroxide breaking down to just H20+02...Any suggestions on a decent one available from LHBS?

I think i may have a stagnant infection as my last 2 brews (lager and ale) have turned out quite astringent and bitter. However, these two were the first time i steeped grain (crystal and carapils, respectively). I kept the temp in the required range definately for the lager so im thinking it may be an infection? Also, the larger had quite an alcoholic character even though primary was undertaken at approx 13deg. I used idodophor on these two brews however rinsed with tap water after as it smelt quite bad and i had conflicting info on the dosage.
When i used a 'napisan' style one and rinsed after i never had any 'infection' problems... Hence my breakdown in science. However, i am a firm believer in science and i think i was blaming the science and perhaps not the cause; my method of application may have been flawed!

Cheers!


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## Sammus (3/12/07)

Screwtop said:


> Sorry but napisan (sodium percarbonate) is not a sanitiser.



napisan kind of products says its antibacterial - and both coopers and brewcraft i think market sodium percarb as a sanitiser - id never use it like that though i dont like the residue,


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## NRB (5/12/07)

Sammus said:


> both coopers and brewcraft i think market sodium percarb as a sanitiser


I think you'll find they market sodium _*metabisulphite*_ as their sanitisers Sammus.


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## lucas (5/12/07)

NRB said:


> I think you'll find they market sodium _*metabisulphite*_ as their sanitisers Sammus.


Actually the new coopers one really is sodium percarb. take a look next time your in at the supermarket. I wouldnt waste the money on it myself, I use the home brand napisan for cleaning and iodopher or hersil for sanitisation


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## Screwtop (5/12/07)

wimbymoonshine said:


> Great advise screwy... I think i may have a go at the peroxide based no rinse ones. I like the idea of peroxide breaking down to just H20+02...Any suggestions on a decent one available from LHBS?
> 
> I think i may have a stagnant infection as my last 2 brews (lager and ale) have turned out quite astringent and bitter. However, these two were the first time i steeped grain (crystal and carapils, respectively). I kept the temp in the required range definately for the lager so im thinking it may be an infection? Also, the larger had quite an alcoholic character even though primary was undertaken at approx 13deg. I used idodophor on these two brews however rinsed with tap water after as it smelt quite bad and i had conflicting info on the dosage.
> When i used a 'napisan' style one and rinsed after i never had any 'infection' problems... Hence my breakdown in science. However, i am a firm believer in science and i think i was blaming the science and perhaps not the cause; my method of application may have been flawed!
> ...




HTFU, use Iodophor for sanitising and don't rinse, soak everything in a weak bleach solution after cleaning with Napisan, it's all old practice and it works, stop trying to reinvent the bloody wheel Wimb :lol:. Doubt you've got an infection if you describe it as astringent and bitter. Look at other causes.

Screwy


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## NRB (7/12/07)

lucas said:


> Actually the new coopers one really is sodium percarb. take a look next time your in at the supermarket.



I stand corrected. I never use this stuff and don't look at the products in the HB section of the supermarket, but will have a look next time I'm shopping.


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