# Jsaa Clone Kit



## Spiderpig (4/12/08)

Greetings all,

Not sure if I am passin on old news to everyone, but Ezybrew have released a James Squire Amber Ale Clone Kit that is supposed to be bang on the mark (around the $31 mark). I spoke to the man behind the product at ESB yesterday (G'day Richard) and he reckons it's a pretty good drop. Apparantly it was only released in November, so it's only being sold at The Brew Shop presently. You can order it online and for those of us not living in Sydney, they can organise fairly cheap courier costs on 3 cans or more.

For those of us that have tried everything in K&K to try and match JSAA, this is a god send (potentially). Nothing I have made thus far has come close, nice beers but not JSAA. It's a 4.5kg can you add to your fermenter with enough water making 23 litres, chuck in the safale yeast it comes with and there you have it.

Has anyone tried this yet, anything to report out there? I am massively interested in anyone's feedback.

Cheers,
Spiderpig


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## MarkBastard (5/12/08)

Spiderpig said:


> Has anyone tried this yet, anything to report out there? I am massively interested in anyone's feedback.



I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds alright and I'd probably give it a go.

I assume for $31 you get a decent yeast as well? Seems expensive for a kit.

I've made the JSAA 'partial' clone on these forums and it was awesome. The cost wouldn't have been much more than $31 though so unless this kit tastes as good I don't know if it'd be worth it.


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## brilinjo (5/12/08)

Spiderpig said:


> It's a 4.5kg can you add to your fermenter with enough water making 23 litres, *chuck in the safale yeast it comes with * and there you have it.






Mark^Bastard said:


> I assume for $31 you get a decent yeast as well?




yeah, that Safale is crap. <_<


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## MarkBastard (6/12/08)

Hmm I believe that's the same yeast I used.

I'm in!


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## bradsbrew (6/12/08)

Ive done a couple of these but the LCPA ones the first one I done straight with no adjustment, was ok bit watery. Second one I added some carared and dry hopped with Amarillo and willamette turned out great but not as good as my AG LCPA clones. Best thing about them is flavor for time ratio.
 
Cheers Brad


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## Fermented (6/12/08)

brilinjo said:


> yeah, that Safale is crap. <_<


OT and no hijack intended...

When you say that Safale is crap, can you please let me know what you mean? I'm curious to learn.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## bradsbrew (6/12/08)

Fermented said:


> OT and no hijack intended...
> 
> When you say that Safale is crap, can you please let me know what you mean? I'm curious to learn.
> 
> Cheers - Fermented.



I took it as he was being facetious
<_<


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## Fermented (6/12/08)

D'oh.

Sorry - worked until 07:00 this morning since yesterday arvo, slept two hours, worked more, couple of brews with lunch. i.e. Sleep deprived and alcohol improved brain doesn't good so work. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Thunderlips (6/12/08)

bradsbrew said:


> was ok bit watery.


I did the LCPA and JSAA today and filled to the recommended 22.5litres,.
It did taste a bit watery from the fermenter but I wanted to do it to instructions the first time around.

If your kegging though you'd only really need to go to 19 or 20L depending on your keg size.


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## MarkBastard (11/1/09)

Thunderlips said:


> I did the LCPA and JSAA today and filled to the recommended 22.5litres,.
> It did taste a bit watery from the fermenter but I wanted to do it to instructions the first time around.
> 
> If your kegging though you'd only really need to go to 19 or 20L depending on your keg size.



I just ordered the LCPA and JSAA kits. I've been a bit slack lately and haven't had a lot of time so at least with these two kits I'll have some beer quicker and hopefully good enough.

As I'm going into kegs I'll probably do up to 20L or so so hopefully it won't seem 'watery'.


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## davewaldo (12/1/09)

I'm keen to hear how you guys go with these kits. Please keep us posted on your results!


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## MarkBastard (12/1/09)

Will do dave. I may make a new thread and take some pictures of the kit etc too and various stages of the brewing process.


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## Jase71 (12/1/09)

What's the advantage of getting a kit for that price, when you could do an extract brew and control the hopping for around the same price ? I'm about to embark on a JSGA clone, and I'm sure the cost won't be too different. Lets punch the numbers: 

$6 for 60g hops 
$15 for wheat malt 
$12 for pale malt
$2 for 150g crystal malt
$0 for recultured yeast

So that's $35, a mere $4 more for a beer that I have more control over than a kit.


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## shellnaf (12/1/09)

I have done the brewcraft LCPA, cost me around $40. The other day I put down another LCPA, similar to the brewcraft but using ingredients I bought from lhbs, cost me just over $30 for a damn good tasting brew, and as jase71 said you have more control. That way you can tweak a bit here & there until it's just right for you. Also if you're a newb like me, I'd rather being doing brews with additions than just throwing some goo and water in a fermenter.

Nathan


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## MarkBastard (12/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> What's the advantage of getting a kit for that price, when you could do an extract brew and control the hopping for around the same price ? I'm about to embark on a JSGA clone, and I'm sure the cost won't be too different. Lets punch the numbers:
> 
> $6 for 60g hops
> $15 for wheat malt
> ...



I recently did an extract brew JSAA clone. I'll let you know if there are any 'advantages' when I'm done. That said obviously if you don't want / need 'more control' and just want to make an actual clone, you can save money and a fair deal of time by using a kit.

Having multiple options is a good thing IMO.

I'm particularly interested in the differences between using this premium kit and doing an extract brew to try and achieve the same result and would be happy to report what I find.


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## Jase71 (12/1/09)

Not really much more time. Maybe an hour more. Less if you look at it practically, you start your hop boil, then go and clean your gear while its bubbling. You need to spend time cleaning & sterilising anyway, so why not have something on the boil while you do so. 

I'm not experienced enough to argue the kit vs extract advantages, if any, but I would think that boiling my own hops will give a fuller bitterness/flavour/aroma element than the whole lot that's been done already, then left to sit in a can on the shelf. 

Either way, for me it gives a greater element of DIY, than as shellnaf said, just opening a can and adding some water. 

Would love to hear some theories from the more experienced people here............


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## BEC26 (12/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> I'm about to embark on a JSGA clone, and I'm sure the cost won't be too different. Lets punch the numbers:
> 
> $6 for 60g hops
> $15 for wheat malt
> ...




Hey Jase,

What are the kg and specifics of the malts you used in your recipe and where did you get it from?

thanks in advance

Cheers
Bruce

PS I am assuming that the hops were amarillo . .. 

Cheers again


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## Fermented (13/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> Not really much more time. Maybe an hour more. Less if you look at it practically, you start your hop boil, then go and clean your gear while its bubbling. You need to spend time cleaning & sterilising anyway, so why not have something on the boil while you do so.
> 
> I'm not experienced enough to argue the kit vs extract advantages, if any, but I would think that boiling my own hops will give a fuller bitterness/flavour/aroma element than the whole lot that's been done already, then left to sit in a can on the shelf.
> 
> ...


I would have to agree with Jase71 about going all malt. 

I made the jump towards the end of last year and have mostly been pottering about with ales so far to try to get my experience up a bit more and really get a good feel for the ingredients. Instead of cans of malt, I bought a 28 kg pail of Coopers LME and another pail with a honey gate to dispense it. 

Jase is dead right about using the time between finishing one batch and starting the next. After bottling, I clean and sanitise the benches, start the boil, take a couple of cups of slurry and give it a feed and finally go clean and sanitise the fermenter. By the time that's done, it's about second hopping time and grain steeping time. Enough time for a smoke and a drink then pull the malt from the pail, add it to the boil, add the liquid from the steepings and it's just about time to toss the lot in the fermenter. Total time? About 1 hour 20-something minutes including clean-up. Not really a lot longer than doing K&B.

Despite the sentiment of some about 'can fresh', there are elements of flavour and chemical composition in beer that I feel would be lost in the production of a concentrate. Good quality hops, properly stored, will more than likely taste and smell far better than something that has been processed. 

Tweakage and tuning is a big part of the joy of doing this. You don't have to accept what someone else's interpretation of a style is. Sure you can hop a kit, change yeasts, mess with fermentation temperature, etc but you're still stuck with what's in the can.

The big thing is really the improvement over kits. It's a small step, doesn't cost a lot to get started and you're reducing your production costs from day one. Not to mention getting a much better product at the end of it. Give it a shot - well recommended. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Spiderpig (13/1/09)

Hey guys,

I like the sound of an extract as opposed to this type of kit put out by ESB. However, getting knowledge of the 3 different malts and 3 different hops James Squire Amber Ale uses (incl quantities) seems to be a rather difficult task. Tony (AHB member) posted a quick fire recipe I am yet to try, others have mentioned it is pretty good. That recipe only uses Williamtette and I am not sure this is the right hop selection on it's own for JSAA. I posted this thread to focus purely on JSAA, so if anyone has a tried and tested Extract recipe that is on the money, please post it or direct me to the thread. Please, no AG, this is a kits and extracts area for dumb f#cks like me  I am yet to progress to AG, that all seems a bit "scary" for want of a better word. Still only 12 months into this brewing caper and trying to learn from you more experienced brewers.

I had someone tell me previously that maybe a combo of East Kent Goldings, Fuggles and Williamette maybe the hop selection? Obviously some Crystal Malt would be in the mix for your grains for colour?

Spiderpig Out!


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## MarkBastard (13/1/09)

Spiderpig said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I like the sound of an extract as opposed to this type of kit put out by ESB. However, getting knowledge of the 3 different malts and 3 different hops James Squire Amber Ale uses (incl quantities) seems to be a rather difficult task. Tony (AHB member) posted a quick fire recipe I am yet to try, others have mentioned it is pretty good. That recipe only uses Williamtette and I am not sure this is the right hop selection on it's own for JSAA. I posted this thread to focus purely on JSAA, so if anyone has a tried and tested Extract recipe that is on the money, please post it or direct me to the thread. Please, no AG, this is a kits and extracts area for dumb f#cks like me  I am yet to progress to AG, that all seems a bit "scary" for want of a better word. Still only 12 months into this brewing caper and trying to learn from you more experienced brewers.
> 
> ...



Spiderpig.

I have made Tony's recipe and it's very good. I would recommend giving it a go. I don't think you'll get a better extract JSAA clone.

As for everyone else, we can theorise about this crap until the cows come home. I'm giving something new a try (something you have not done before, and me either), and I'll reserve judgement until after I'm done. As I have done an extract clone of JSAA I'll have experience at both options and can report factually on the difference in time / money / final result.

If anyone here has created a JSAA clone using Tony's recipe (or similar) and has used this JSAA clone kit, feel free to give factual input. I for one will be interested.


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## Jase71 (13/1/09)

Somebody's wearing his cranky pants today.


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## MarkBastard (13/1/09)

haha i am. ive got a farken headache and just want to go home and pour a beer hahahaha

sorry


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## cdbrown (13/1/09)

Just tell 'em to piss off and live up to your name ya bastard :beerbang: 

Would be interested to know whether these clone kits actually produce a clone or just something which tastes similar but is still good in it's own right. Just like all the different variations on the same theme which each individual brewer comes up with claiming it's a clone - and maybe to their taste buds. 

I like the idea of these kits as they can be an easy way for a new brewer to make something similar to what they like, but don't have full confidence that it will produce a clone which of course can then put the said homebrewers off making more and being more adventurous (not that I'm very adventurous).


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## MarkBastard (13/1/09)

cdbrown said:


> Would be interested to know whether these clone kits actually produce a clone or just something which tastes similar but is still good in it's own right. Just like all the different variations on the same theme which each individual brewer comes up with claiming it's a clone - and maybe to their taste buds.



I've never really understood the need to have a full perfect clone. As long as it's comparable in overall quality and is a very similar style it's enough for me. In a lot of ways I preferred the JSAA clone (Tony's recipe) to the real thing, but I'm sure a lot of that is psychological because I made it myself and I had it on tap in my own house etc.

What I imagine these clone kits to be is 'close enough'.




cdbrown said:


> I like the idea of these kits as they can be an easy way for a new brewer to make something similar to what they like, but don't have full confidence that it will produce a clone which of course can then put the said homebrewers off making more and being more adventurous (not that I'm very adventurous).



Yeah. I just bought them because I've been slack lately and find I don't have a lot of spare time. I want to just get two beers in my kegs quickly as I have four kegs and three of them are currently empty! Then I can spend more time getting my BIAB all grain rig going and I'll probably make a Bock.

Try not to knock things before I try them either way. If these end up being really handy and good quality / price / convenience ratio I may use them in the future for my staples when I can't be arsed doing anything better.


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## boingk (13/1/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I've never really understood the need to have a full perfect clone. As long as it's comparable in overall quality and is a very similar style it's enough for me. <snip>



Pretty much the same here. I did a 'clone' kit from the LHBS for a Becks, and while it wasn't Becks as I'd had it, it was certainly pleasing. If anything, I would have picked it over the commercial example because it had a bit more hop bite. Thats my experience with a 'clone kit', so hopefully yours goes well too. 

Cheers - boingk


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## unterberg (13/1/09)

boingk said:


> Pretty much the same here. I did a 'clone' kit from the LHBS for a Becks, and while it wasn't Becks as I'd had it, it was certainly pleasing. If anything, I would have picked it over the commercial example because it had a bit more hop bite. Thats my experience with a 'clone kit', so hopefully yours goes well too.
> 
> Cheers - boingk



I definitly agree to that!
As long as you like it I wouldnt even bother wasting time to actually get the clone closer...


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## unterberg (13/1/09)

Reading this I think I will give Tonys recipe a go and put one down soon.
I was wondering if I could substitute the liquid malt with ldme. Thought about 2.4kg that should be about the 3kg liquid malt.
And does the bittering of the hops change if I were to use 5l of water with 1kg of malt to do the bittering in.
And finally what hops could I use instead of Willamette?
Got Hersbrucker, Hallertau, Saaz, Amarillo and Tettnang. 

I think Tettnang would probably be alright.


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## MarkBastard (19/1/09)

The JSAA kit arrived today. Won't be able to pitch it for a while cause I couldn't resist putting an irish red down on the weekend.


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## Mantis (19/1/09)

I made Tonys extract brew as my first step away from kits months ago. I didnt have the hops he suggested and subbed some I had on hand.
Anyway, it prompted me to get a 28kg tin of extract which has long gone, then 20 tins of extract from Coopers and only 1 of those left
From there I went onto partial mashes using the BIAB method in my 12lt pot
Here is the latest Amber ale that I am drinking as I type





3kg Coopers pale malt
2.1kg JW Traditional ale
300g Crystal
50g chocolate20g Chinook 11.1 60min
15g Amarillo 8.2 40min
15g Amarillo 8.2 20min
15g Amarillo 8.2 0min
Make up to 25lt
US-05 yeast
I know many will cringe at the use of Amarillo but eh, I like them. 
On the weekend I made two more of the above but with Cascade instead of the amarillo and POR instead of the Chinook in one
Loving the Ambers :chug: 

I havent made an amber ale kit but have made one of the ESB 3kg kits and it was very good

Partial mashes with BIAB are so easy


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## goomboogo (19/1/09)

Mantis, you say some may cringe at your use of amarillo and you are correct, some will. But many won't. You hit the nail on the head when you state you use them because you like them. I think you'll find many of the people who say don't use amarillo are merely saying that it is a flavour they don't like and there are other hops they prefer. I like amarillo but in particular in combination with other hop varieties. I like amarillo with cascade and simcoe. My next APA will have late additions of amarillo, cascade and galaxy.


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## Gavo (19/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> What's the advantage of getting a kit for that price, when you could do an extract brew and control the hopping for around the same price ? I'm about to embark on a JSGA clone, and I'm sure the cost won't be too different. Lets punch the numbers:
> 
> $6 for 60g hops
> $15 for wheat malt
> ...



Jase, Interesting to see this comment. A few months ago we were discussing the similar, I think. Correct me if I am wrong. even more interesting that I was playing with beersmith just last night for something like one of these Amber Ales. Was toying with a partial with 2.4 kg of grain topped up with some LDME and the cost for 19 litres is $26 and for 22 litres $28 and thats allowing $1 for recultured yeast. Much better than a kit to boot, even get to control final colour and malt profiles.

Unterberg, the hop additions will change boiling 1 kg of malt in 5 lt of water as it will give you a preboil gravity of around 1070 for LDME, therfore your hop utilization will change. You should add enough malt to your boil to achieve a prebiol gravity of at least around your FG in order to get a better and mor predictable hop utilization. This is particularly useful for getting bitterness levels correct.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## MarkBastard (20/1/09)

FWIW...

This is what I paid to make Tony's extract brew.
1.5L - Pale LME - $10
1.5L - Pale LME - $10
300g - Caramunich II (Weyermann) $1.65 (craft brewer)
30g - Chocolate Malt $0.18 (craft brewer)
40g - Willamette Pellet 45min $7.50 (craft brewer, 90g)
20g - Willamette Pellet 5 min
12g - Safale US-05 (11.5gm) $4.90 (craft brewer)

= $34.23 with 30g Willamette hops leftover

This kit I bought is about the same price. Slightly cheaper. Came with S04 yeast. Dunno what the result is like because I haven't made it yet.

A partial mash replacing one of the LME cans with 2kg of Ale Malt would be $32.23. A full all grain with 4kg of Ale malt and no LME would be $30.23

So to round it up, there's 4 options I've outlined.

EzyBrew Kit
Price: $34
Quality: ?
Customisation: N/A, additions only
Skill level: Extremely easy
Wort creation time: 0 minutes
Wort creation equipment required: None.
Chilling required to pitch straight away: depends on ambient temperature of water only

Tony's extract recipe
Price: $34.23
Quality: Very good
Customisation: possible
Skill level: intermediate
Wort creation time: 2 hours (including prep, bringing pot to boil, waiting for grains to steep, etc)
Wort creation equipment required: Large pot, stove top, fine strainer etc
Chilling required to pitch straight away: Yes, though you're supplementing half cold tap water so a few hours in a fridge or leave overnight.

Partial mash
Price: $32.23
Quality: ?
Customisation: possible
Skill level: high intermediate
Wort creation time: 4 hours
Wort creation equipment requirement: Large pot, stove, fine strainer, possibly BIAB bag, possibly more depending on preference
Chilling required to pitch straight away: Yes, as above.

Full mash
Price: $30.23
Quality: ?
Customisation: full
Skill level: high
Wort creation time: 4 hours
Wort creation equipment required: Skys the limit. Full size BIAB pot or traditional equipment
Chilling required to pitch straight away: Yes, considerable.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to choose the option that suits you best, those are the facts above.


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## unterberg (21/1/09)

gavo said:


> Jase, Interesting to see this comment. A few months ago we were discussing the similar, I think. Correct me if I am wrong. even more interesting that I was playing with beersmith just last night for something like one of these Amber Ales. Was toying with a partial with 2.4 kg of grain topped up with some LDME and the cost for 19 litres is $26 and for 22 litres $28 and thats allowing $1 for recultured yeast. Much better than a kit to boot, even get to control final colour and malt profiles.
> 
> Unterberg, the hop additions will change boiling 1 kg of malt in 5 lt of water as it will give you a preboil gravity of around 1070 for LDME, therfore your hop utilization will change. You should add enough malt to your boil to achieve a prebiol gravity of at least around your FG in order to get a better and mor predictable hop utilization. This is particularly useful for getting bitterness levels correct.
> 
> ...



Thanks. What I was getting to is this (hope its a bit clearer now): 
Does the volume you do the bittering in matter if you have the same gravity? Meaning could I get the same bittering result if I achieve the same FG in eg 5l instead of 12l using the same amount of hops/schedule?


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## kram (21/1/09)

Yo Mark, to not intimidate/overwhelm newcomers I wouldn't say AG has a high skill level. Its a fairly simple process and I see it as just being time consuming.

There's nothing like spending 6.5 hours on your first AG but haha


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## Gavo (21/1/09)

Unterberg said:


> Thanks. What I was getting to is this (hope its a bit clearer now):
> Does the volume you do the bittering in matter if you have the same gravity? Meaning could I get the same bittering result if I achieve the same FG in eg 5l instead of 12l using the same amount of hops/schedule?



Pretty much. I usually do a minimum boil of 7 lt just for a bit more, for the wan't of a better description, control in the boil. The largest boil I have done is a partial is 9 lt to achieve the desired pre-boil gravity. usually this has been with the liquid from 2 - 2 1/2 kg of grain. 
Boil as much as you feel comfortable with in the equipment you have, at the end of the day we use what is available to us and are aiming to make repeatable results.

Cheers
Gavo


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## Gavo (21/1/09)

kram said:


> I wouldn't say AG has a high skill level. Its a fairly simple process and I see it as just being time consuming.



I have done one AG 15 lt so far and found the process fairly simple and the results very good (just tasted one yesterday :icon_drool2: ). Hardest part was that it was done on the kitchen stove (it is a pretty large five burner and double oven). But..... I will be waiting until I get my burner and a few other things together so I can do it outside.
AG can be done fairly simply without a lot of gear it just takes longer (mine took 3 1/2 hours, although abit like the army, hurry up and wait) but the results are great.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## kram (21/1/09)

gavo said:


> I have done one AG 15 lt so far and found the process fairly simple and the results very good (just tasted one yesterday :icon_drool2: ). Hardest part was that it was done on the kitchen stove (it is a pretty large five burner and double oven). But..... I will be waiting until I get my burner and a few other things together so I can do it outside.
> AG can be done fairly simply without a lot of gear it just takes longer (mine took 3 1/2 hours, although abit like the army, hurry up and wait) but the results are great.
> 
> Cheers
> Gavo.


Yeah the kitchen stove is a killer. My first AG was done on the vintage electric stove with two pots, a 19l and 15l. Had to boil with the lids 90% on as it wouldn't boil otherwise and had to stand there the whole time controlling the boil overs. Didn't even get to add the yeast, the wort picked up some wild stuff the day after I brewed it!

There was a reason why it took 2 months before my next AG, had to get my setup going before attempting another one haha. Now i'm a fan of the lunch time mash, fill the HLT bucket o' death for sparging, set the timer and start the sparge when I get home from work, cuts the time down nicely.


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## MarkBastard (21/1/09)

bucket of death hahaha

bunnings fermenter with electric element shoved in the side anyone?


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## MarkBastard (1/2/09)

I've just cleaned out the fermenter and put this JSAA clone kit in. Haven't pitched the yeast yet as the wort was 28 degrees with no hot water addition. Bloody summer.

The kit is 4.5L and is a proper liquid consistency, it's not in any way like a normal syrup kit. Obviously it's condensed but not to the point where it stops being a liquid. It's more like a condensed fresh wort kit than a regular kit.

Looks and smells nice so far. Will add the included S04 yeast later on.


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## Gavo (1/2/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> bucket of death hahaha
> 
> bunnings fermenter with electric element shoved in the side anyone?



Yep done safely it works great. Good Cheap HLT.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Phoney (1/2/09)

Does anyone have a link to Tony's JSAA kit recipe?

I cant find it


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## BEC26 (1/2/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> bucket of death hahaha
> 
> bunnings fermenter with electric element shoved in the side anyone?




Please explain????


pics please. :icon_cheers: 

Is this a plastic barrel with an electric element somehow in the mix????


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## MarkBastard (2/2/09)

Tony's one: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=201036

krams HLT is just one of those bunnings fermenters with an electric element inside it. Guessing there's probably a thread on it somewhere bec.


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## MarkBastard (13/2/09)

happy benno, i will be kegging my JSAA kit in the next few days and I'll let you know how it goes.

I haven't been entirely happy with the S04 yeast. It went crazy in the first few days and then nothing. I've tasted the finished brew uncarbed and it tastes sweet, hopefully it's okay once carbed though. My hydrometer isn't worth shit.

Even thus far I think I'd use a US05 yeast next time. You can probably order it with US05 yeast at the same price. I know the little creatures pale ale comes with US05.


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## MarkBastard (20/2/09)

Well this has been kegged for a few days. It's got a few problems with it but I believe it was either because of an infection or because the supplied yeast was crappy. I just can't tell which. It has a very slight banana flavour to it which obviously isn't ideal for the style at all. It's still a drinkable beer. You get the impression the kit itself would have been quite good. I'd buy it again but would definitely use a US05 yeast.

One thing that may have caused a problem is that it may have been too aerated? When filling the fermenter the container the kit was in 'glugged' a lot, it was almost impossible not to make it glug, and then I used the same container to transfer water as well so more glugging. By the end there was a lot of foam on top without even adding yeast. Added yeast a few hours later and that's when it went nuts.

Bit of a shame.


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## Fermented (20/2/09)

Getting air into the wort before pitching yeast is actually a good thing. The yeast needs the oxygen at the first stage (reproduction) before it goes on to making ABV goodness. Aeration at the end of fermentation during kegging or bottling is the time that air=bad. 

S-04 and S-05 are both fine yeasts. They tend to be quick but can make for some odd scents and flavours in warmer fermentations. There are nicer yeasts available (Whitelabs, Wyeast, etc), but for repeatable, low cost brewing with a pretty decent result they're just fine. 

I did a batch at the end of last month (different recipe) just as the temperatures rose wildly. Hot ferment - 29C+ ambient. Good grief - fruity stink - from S-04. Left it for 18 days in the fermenter, risking infection and yeast autolysis and more... tasted it... bad tastes all gone, so have bottled it and will pray that it's not hangover juice. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## MarkBastard (20/2/09)

Mine was a constant 18 degrees from memory.

Yeah I know aeration is good for wort, I just didn't know if it was possible to over aerate it or not.

I left it sitting on the yeast cake for a few days at 18 degrees and actualy crash chilled in primary for a few days at 1 degrees.

I've got the ezybrew lcpa kit as well with s05 yeast and I'm gunna buy a new fermenter tonight, old one can go in the bin!


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## MarkBastard (25/2/09)

Me again, this beer is now tasting fine and I would recommend it to people after a kit beer.

Quality wise I'd put it between extract brew and a fresh wort kit.

It is not very different to Tony's JSAA extract clone.

Ask me any questions if you want.


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## Jase71 (25/2/09)

I have a question, Mister Bastard. Is your comment about it's present state based on your inherent belief system from a few weeks ago when you argued so strongly that this was going to be 'as good as' if not 'better' than a home cooked hop steep+ spec.grain steep+ pure malt can method ? Mine, with the latter methodology, kicks arse too, maybe we should do a swap  

Sorry mate, I havent wound you up for a couple of weeks, and this seems the perfect opportunity. It's good news if there's a decent kit on the market for an amarillo ale. Although I reckon the flavour comes from a later stage hopping than what a kit can provide. 

For what it's worth, my young GA clone is being consumed very prematurely, because it's considered so awesome by SWMBO and guests. But for me, it's a little too much full bodied in texture. 

Cheers mate, 

Jase


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## bradsbrew (25/2/09)

Id have to agree with you there Jase. The Ezybrew LCPA i brewed was no where near as good as the same ezybrew LCPA i brewed with the addition of some steeped grains and hops.

Cheers Brad


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## Jase71 (25/2/09)

Are you taking the piss ?


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## MarkBastard (25/2/09)

Jase, as I mentioned in the thread earlier I'm not really about speculation and stroking my ego etc etc, so I can only answer based on this kit vs Tony's JSAA recipe followed to a T.

So far, this kit is slightly better at the same age. Tony's extract recipe did come into its own after a few weeks though. I think they are comparable enough that it's not worth differentiating too much. With Tony's recipe I should have strained out the hops and made sure they didn't make their way into the fermenter in my opinion, and with this one I should have been more careful with the pitching temperature.

All in all they're very comparable in taste, very comparable in price, with the difference being that one's slightly less effort and the other is much more open to customisation. So choose based on preference obviously.

I would say these ezybrew kits are about on par with extract brews. They're probably not as good as fresh wort kits, but miles ahead of normal cans of goo. They come out of their container as a full liquid, not a viscus goo, and they come with proper yeast and seem to be made with proper ingrediants etc.

Sorry mate I can only talk from experience and not give you more sensationalist crap to get excited about.


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## Jase71 (25/2/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Sorry mate I can only talk from experience and not give you more sensationalist crap to get excited about.



Aww, c'mon. What if I said 'please' ?


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## MarkBastard (25/2/09)

Maybe if you say pretty please (you gooknigger faggot)


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## Jase71 (25/2/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Maybe if you say pretty please (you gooknigger faggot)



Charming as always, Marky B. How did you know I'm Tiger Woods' gay brother? 

Aaaaaaanyway, while we're on JS clones, my version of GA came out a bit 'syrupy'. Could this have been due to the couple of hundred grams of dex & maltodex that I added ?


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## MarkBastard (25/2/09)

Jase, I've been studying you closely as a side project to my PGA tour shindiggery. By the way I think your slanty eyes really bring out the sexiness of your wide nose :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:


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## Jase71 (25/2/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Jase, I've been studying you closely as a side project to my PGA tour shindiggery. By the way I think your slanty eyes really bring out the sexiness of your wide nose :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:



Are you a professional gofer ..... Oops, what a typo. 

Do you think I'm asian ? It would be convenient for you to assume that when being disagreeable to my posts. It would give you that excuse to wear the pointy hat bedsheets again.


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## dpadden (26/2/09)

where's a mod when you need one....


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