# Cube Hopping



## Crusty

I've decided on my last brew to merge back to Beer Tools Pro from BrewMate as I just like the programme better.
BrewMate has the option of the no chill tick box which is the main reason I have been using it & is a great feature but BTP, like BeerSmith, has no option for no chill.
I decided to treat my additions as an extra 20mins for the extra contact time, 60, I left as is, 30min becomes 10, 10mins is cube hopped & the 0 addition will be dry hopped for 3 days at the end of cold crashing for a week.
How do you guys find cube hopping?
I'm hoping there's no traces of grassiness & assume the fermentation will filter it out if any. Never cube hopped before so we'll see how it goes.


----------



## GuyQLD

Can't help you much mate, I've only done it a handful of times. Never found it grassy, but I did find trying to guess the IBU's almost impossible. Made a pretty reasonable Fat Yak once that was 100% cube hopped, nelson and cascade and didn't end up with any of the off flavours those hops sometimes have attributed to them.

I treated them as 20 minutes as well.


----------



## pist

I find cube hopping to be useful for boosting flavour...particularly handy if youre chasing this for an apa or ipa. Ive done both no hopping in the cube and hopped the cube and have found flavour and aroma to be stronger with my cube hopped batches. To date ive had no grassiness and regularly do this with my ipas/apas. I guess the only way you would do this is if you went crazyily overboard with your hop schedule Got nothing to lose give it a go


----------



## pist

You will get some that say yes and some that will disagree. Its another one of those things of personal preference...you neither have to do it or not do it. Up to you what works here


----------



## Crusty

GuyQLD said:


> Can't help you much mate, I've only done it a handful of times. Never found it grassy, but I did find trying to guess the IBU's almost impossible. Made a pretty reasonable Fat Yak once that was 100% cube hopped, nelson and cascade and didn't end up with any of the off flavours those hops sometimes have attributed to them.
> 
> I treated them as 20 minutes as well.


Cheers mate.
It seems grassiness won't be an issue. I have had grassiness before when dry hopping for 7 days & find 3 days max for me suits my tastes.
How would you treat a 15 & 10min addition, followd by a 0 min? Would you just dry hop the 0min & cube hop the 15 & 10 together, remembering the extra 20min of utilisation because of the no chill.
With Beer Tools Pro, I set up the recipe stats with 0.60 absorption, 4L loss to trub & chiller & 4L boil off. 20lt batch = 20lt into the cube & came in @73% Brewhouse efficiency......... 



pist said:


> I find cube hopping to be useful for boosting flavour...particularly handy if youre chasing this for an apa or ipa. Ive done both no hopping in the cube and hopped the cube and have found flavour and aroma to be stronger with my cube hopped batches. To date ive had no grassiness and regularly do this with my ipas/apas. I guess the only way you would do this is if you went crazyily overboard with your hop schedule Got nothing to lose give it a go


Thanks for the advice. It was only 25g of Cascade & it should turn out quite allright. I've heard a bit about cube hopping adding flavour & aroma so we'll see how it turns out in a few weeks.


----------



## pist

Cascade is a great hop. I love using it with citra and some galaxy. They play really well together in an apa


----------



## GuyQLD

If the original recipe calls for chilling I dry hop anything under 15, reduce my 60 min addition to almost nothing and put most of my 20-30 min additions as either 5min or flameout (or cube)

I have pretty much moved away from AIPA/APA's as a result though; just find no chilling to be sub optimal for this style and while I'm still fairly young in my brewing career I'm finding it easier to do single hop addition styles that are malt forward. Eventually I'll get some sort of chiller then go back into the APA's.

Note, I'm not saying it's impossible; I've just never been happy with it.


----------



## sp0rk

I've been cube hopping for the last few months, haven't noticed any grassy notes


----------



## yum beer

I have only cube hopped once. I did it on a Ipa recipe, Sam Smith India Ale clone that I played around on.
I have brewed it 3 times with small differneces but 1 batch was given about 25gms of Fuggles in the cube( extra to the other 2 recipes).
Certainly had a lot more flavour and aroma and was by far the best of the three.
Only limited experience but was a positive one.....will probably vary with hop type.


----------



## Byran

I did cube hop many moons ago, but seemed to have harsh bitterness so I stopped. But I have adopted the same methods of adding 15 to 20 mins to all hop additions except for the 60 min. It works great for adjusting for no chill but I have found that adding your flameouts to the whirlpool then draining to the cube you dont have the hops sitting in hot wort for as long and I believe this leads to a cleaner flavour. But thats just my opinion. I liken it to leaving a tea bag in a cup of hot tea... for like 10 hours. Possibly just draws out astringency. Adding a hop tea to the fermenter before pitching will give you the same results as the 5min, 1min and flamout additions and doeasnt make it anymore difficult to add the yeast.


----------



## breakbeer

I follow the recipe & add hops at the required times, then throw the 'dry hops' into the cube, but then I also dry hop with the same amount after 4 days of cc'ing & leave for another 3. 

then smash the keg in a week

edit: I should mention that I only do this with IPA type recipes & have never had a glass full of lawn mower clippings


----------



## damoninja

I wouldn't have thought the effects of cube hopping would be all that mad? I saw this thread earlier and thought why not... I'll give it a shot. 
I threw my 0 min addition in to the cube before I dropped the hot wort on to it. Whirlcube? 

The times I've dumped the hops right into the FV instead of discarding in hop bags have been the most flavoursome and best of my brews, not overpowering or too bitter... 
I would have thought cubing would have been much the same, 2 weeks in an FV is going to suck all the hoppy goodness out of them all the same as X weeks in a cube... Right?


----------



## Midnight Brew

Still experimenting with hopping schedules I've too found that treating a cube hop as a flavour addition (of say 20 mins) does go a long way in terms of flavour. I've done the whole bittering addition and then cubing to bring a small portion of the wort to a boil later to do 10 mins and 5 mins but now I'm more settled on a schedule like this

FWH or bittering as per normal
Cube hop (Calculate as a 20min addition)
Boil up a small amount of wort before pitching yeast (about 2 litres) (actually looking at omitting this)
Dry hop as per normal.

I've been finding that the 5 or 10 minute mini boil not to be adding enough in terms of flavour or aroma to justify the time in doing it. To compensate I'm experimenting more to just take it out and add more flavour hops (cube addition) and then a bigger hit of dry hops. Chilling would make everything easier again but I like having a spare cube on hand to ferment at my own choosing.


----------



## einnebcj

So, I'm a bit confused. What's the difference between 0 min hop addition, dry hopping and cube hopping? Naively thought they were kind of one in the same?


Sent from my iPad using Aussie Home Brewer


----------



## fcmcg

0 hop addition is done at flame out in a boil....
Dry hopping is done in your fermentor , usually after day 5...
Cube hopping is putting the hops in your "no chill" cube , ( that is into hot wort) before you put the lid on...


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

fergthebrewer said:


> 0 hop addition is done at flame out in a boil....
> Dry hopping is done in your fermentor , usually after day 5...
> Cube hopping is putting the hops in your "no chill" cube , ( that is into hot wort) before you put the lid on...


So really for the No Chillers out there, the 0min and cube hop is almost the same dependent on the minutes you take between flameout for whirlpooling and siphoning into the cube. I'd suggest that the time it takes to No Chill on your garage floor is going to have a larger impact on whether you decide to 0min add or cube hop? Unless you want to 0min, hop stand and whirlpool to leave some of those 0min hops to fall out with the trub?

To maximise hop flavour/aroma (taking into account the added bitterness of No Chilling), it seems that for No Chillers, cube hopping is the ideal over 0min, am I correct in my thinking?


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

I have been cube hopping and treating it as a 15 min addition. Maybe I should be upping to to 20 min... hard to know really.

I have been reading a lot about hop stands and whirl-pooling. Interesting to find out that most of the big breweries do it and some pretty famous AIPAs are made without dry hopping (getting all their aroma from the whirlpool). It is reported that the temperature that you add the hops in during whirl pool can make a big difference as well. Some breweries are making multiple additions as the wort cools.

My next attempt at an cube hopped APA I am going to put almost all my bittering hops in the cube and then wait for it to cool to 80C. Then add another charge of hops. Hopefully this will emulate what some try to achieve with the hop stand before chilling.


----------



## Yob

Your brew of course... but I'd only do this if pitching the next day... and in that instance, I'd just leave it in the kettle and save the washing and sanitising the cube 

Done this a number of times now without incident. Nervous as hell the first few times :lol:


----------



## OzPaleAle

I've gone straight into fermenter from kettle to cool, and pitched next morning without incident so far, only thing I notice is you need to shake the fermenter full of liquid the next day before pitching to aerate the wort as you don't get the incidental aeration from pouring from cube into fermenter.

I have a hell of a time getting the IBUs right and any sort of aroma hop levels right no chilling so have tried adding those hop additions to a separate 4L boil so I can cool it quickly, hopefully that goes alright....


----------



## damoninja

:icon_offtopic: Side note of cubing.

When transferring out of cubes, do you ditch the trub that's settled in the bottom or swish it around to mix it up and dump it all into the FV?


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

Yob said:


> Your brew of course... but I'd only do this if pitching the next day... and in that instance, I'd just leave it in the kettle and save the washing and sanitising the cube


I would, but I am actually doing 5 22L cubes and using 5 different types of hops to get a good feel for them all.

Putting those hops of yours to good use 

Oh, and I am pitching the next day.


----------



## Yob

Niiice... fecking... work!!

Forgot about the size of your rig...


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Forgot about the size of your rig... 




That's what she said.


----------



## Crusty

damoninja said:


> :icon_offtopic: Side note of cubing.
> 
> When transferring out of cubes, do you ditch the trub that's settled in the bottom or swish it around to mix it up and dump it all into the FV?


I pitch the whole lot into the fermenter.
The yeast will make good use of it & it all settles out.

I'm treating my additions as 20mins so what I am trying to sort out is the 15,10 & 5min. The 0min will just be dry hopped.
As an example of DSGA, I have a 60, 10 & 5min addition so am looking @ 60 as normal, 10 & 5 into the cube. Hopefully that will give me some form of flavour / aroma type hit.
I love the concept of no chilling but it's a PITA to get right.


----------



## Kingy

Yea my beers usually end up on the bitterish side when no chilled. It also seems to take longer to condition. Gunna get some tanks and a pump sorted soon and go back to chilling.


----------



## Yob

Yob said:


> OG - 1070
> FG - 1012
> 
> First batch
> 50g Mosaic - Cube
> 100g Amarillo - Cube
> 
> Second Batch
> 50g Amarillo - Cube
> 100g Ahtanum - Cube



Both of these are drinking now, after having demolished 1/2 of the Ahtanum / Mosaic keg, I swapped over to the Amarillo / Mosaic last night. I've gotta say that for big beers like these two, I dont think I'll bother making kettle additions again, Cube hopping is a massive win for me, can play with different hops with the same wort for true side by side comparisons, lost less to the kettle, take unhopped wort for starters and as I now brew 75-80l at a time I can get much more bang for my buck for brew day.

TBH, I think I'll give FV dry hopping a miss too after the results from these 2 kegs.. Im absolutely astonished at how drinkable these IPA'a are.. :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: 

A fellow member called in the other night and sampled The Ahtanum one and was well pleased with it too, so I for one am going to continue playing with this method.. many many good points, not many negatives.

:beerbang:


----------



## sponge

Kingy said:


> Yea my beers usually end up on the bitterish side when no chilled. It also seems to take longer to condition. Gunna get some tanks and a pump sorted soon and go back to chilling.


I treat my cube hops as 20min additions after having cube hopped for the last 1-2 years (YMMV). But I have noticed them to take a lot longer to condition also. I've found a lot to be harsh and grassy (even some that haven't been dry hopped) but have settled out after a couple of weeks CC'ing in the keg.

If I was able to chill (after we move out of this apartment I'll be getting a rain water tank for chilling) then I would to see if I can reduce the initial harshness, but for now it works fine for me. I was actually planning on trying the argon method for my next APA/AIPA, just having a FWH/bittering addition, and doing the <20min additions with a separate boil, cooling it, and adding it to the fermenter..


----------



## mje1980

Do you throw the cube hops in straight after the boil sponge, or let the wort cool a little first ?. I've been letting the boiled wort sit for 10 mins, then adding the hops and cubing straight away. That small drop in temp has seemed to give lots of aroma and flavour without any harshness. Just a thought.


----------



## IsonAd

Old thread but I was hoping Yob that you could give a bit more info on the IPA you did with just Mosaic used as cube hops..at least that was my understanding from the post above. I'm hoping to do an APA/IPA soon with mosaic and thought i might just cube hop them but would appreciate any guidance, quantity, time in cube etc. Cheers


----------



## sponge

mje1980 said:


> Do you throw the cube hops in straight after the boil sponge, or let the wort cool a little first ?. I've been letting the boiled wort sit for 10 mins, then adding the hops and cubing straight away. That small drop in temp has seemed to give lots of aroma and flavour without any harshness. Just a thought.


I normally whirlpool and let sit for 10min or so, throw the hops in the cube and fill from there. So would slightly cool, but nothing too drastic.

Every so often I'm still not 100% happy with some grass notes I get from cube hopping (even without dry hopping) so have started playing around with longer whirlpool times to let it cool a little as you've suggested, but also just adding whirlpool hops and no cube hops.

On my next APA I'll be giving the argon method a go as I do enjoy the results I get from cube hopping, but it still lacks the punch I'm after every so often.


----------



## davedoran

RelaxedBrewer said:


> I have been cube hopping and treating it as a 15 min addition. Maybe I should be upping to to 20 min... hard to know really.
> 
> I have been reading a lot about hop stands and whirl-pooling. Interesting to find out that most of the big breweries do it and some pretty famous AIPAs are made without dry hopping (getting all their aroma from the whirlpool). It is reported that the temperature that you add the hops in during whirl pool can make a big difference as well. Some breweries are making multiple additions as the wort cools.
> 
> My next attempt at an cube hopped APA I am going to put almost all my bittering hops in the cube and then wait for it to cool to 80C. Then add another charge of hops. Hopefully this will emulate what some try to achieve with the hop stand before chilling.





Yob said:


> Your brew of course... but I'd only do this if pitching the next day... and in that instance, I'd just leave it in the kettle and save the washing and sanitising the cube
> 
> Done this a number of times now without incident. Nervous as hell the first few times :lol:



Sorry if this is obvious to others but why would you only do this if pitching the next day?
Is this to minimize hops to hot wort exposure? If so it would have been down to pitching temp or thereabout the next day anyway?


----------



## Proffs

dave doran said:


> Sorry if this is obvious to others but why would you only do this if pitching the next day?
> Is this to minimize hops to hot wort exposure? If so it would have been down to pitching temp or thereabout the next day anyway?


I think they're just worried about increased risk of infections. Normally when cubing the hot wort sanitizes everything and remains that way until it is opened again.


----------



## Lakey

My process for APA's and IPA's is to add FWH and 60 min additions as normal, put 30 mins additions (if needed) to flame out, let wort sit for 10 mins before whirlpool, whirlpool wort, let sit for 10 mins then dump wort into cube with cube hops for a flavour addition. The wort gets down to about 85 degrees by the time I dump to cube. I then dry hop/keg hop for aroma.


----------



## Lakey

I never really know what the exact IBU's are but I don't really care, every beer done this way has enough flavour and aroma for my likings and isn't too harshly bittered.


----------



## sponge

Yea I treat my cube additions as 20min after many different attempts using various times for those additions. YMMV though as each system will be different.

I'll normally get 1/4 - 1/3 of my bitterness from FWH, then treat whirpool as 25min and cube as 20min. I tried a few all cube hopped beers but just seemed a little harsh with the bitterness compared to adding a bit at FWH.

I think I'll try a similar thing with a known recipe but only with the FWH hops then the argon method for the late hops just for comparison sake.


----------



## davedoran

Proffs said:


> I think they're just worried about increased risk of infections. Normally when cubing the hot wort sanitizes everything and remains that way until it is opened again.


Ok,
Would this not be the same risk as dry hopping?


----------



## sponge

There will be many more knowledgeable brewers who can answer this more accurately, but due to the fermentation process producing CO2 and alcohol, the pH of the beer dropping, and the large quantity of healthy yeast, there is much less chance of bacteria surviving in that environment than with wort which is just some nice sugary room temperature liquid, perfect for bacteria growth.


----------



## Ninegrain

I cube hopped with 50g of Glacier after leaving the kettle for 10 minutes to settle on my first BIAB last week. I did it by throwing the hops into the cube prior to filling it with the hot wort. Ended up over reducing to 17L, not the intended 20L so just tipped it all into the cube trub and all. Made it up to 23L at 1.057 and pitched last sunday and today its at 1.010 and tasting good. If the same tomorrow I will dry hop ~25g, crash chill for a week, keg and let you know how it tastes  Glacier is low AA so will see how it went for bitterness and work from there as a baseline for my next batches and more intense hops.


----------



## davedoran

Please do ninegrain. Will be good to know


----------



## damoninja

I did a 10 minute IPA but cube hopped it, so it was more like a negative 10 minute IPA. 

Turned out bloody nice.


----------



## IsonAd

Damoninja how many and what hops did you use?


----------



## damoninja

IsonAd said:


> Damoninja how many and what hops did you use?


200g amarillo in a 20L batch.


----------



## Tahoose

Think of doing a pale ale tomorrow,

Tweeked my system so I'll be dropping my eff to 75%

24ltr batch
4kg JW trad ale
1kg wheat malt

Cube hops, calculated as 20mins

20g Amarillo 
20g Nelson Sauvin
20g Citra 
20g Willamette

OG 1.050
IBU 41

Not so sure on the Willamette yet...


----------



## lukiferj

damoninja said:


> 200g amarillo in a 20L batch.


Awesome!!! :blink:


----------



## IsonAd

i



damoninja said:


> 200g amarillo in a 20L batch.


Dry hopped?

I remember reading a thread somewhere about the amount of cube hops needed for a solid IPA (can't seem to find it now though, think it was beerfingers??), from an alcohol clouded memory, I seem to recall that the brewer in question was happy with 250g, though I can't remember what type, AA%etc. 
What have other people found is a good amount for a good hop punch in the face? doesn't have to be an IPA, but a solid hoppy pale.


----------



## damoninja

IsonAd said:


> Dry hopped?
> 
> I remember reading a thread somewhere about the amount of cube hops needed for a solid IPA (can't seem to find it now though, think it was beerfingers??), from an alcohol clouded memory, I seem to recall that the brewer in question was happy with 250g, though I can't remember what type, AA%etc.
> What have other people found is a good amount for a good hop punch in the face? doesn't have to be an IPA, but a solid hoppy pale.


Cube hopped  

After whirlpool, wort was still at about 90 degrees. Hops placed in cube first then hot wort dumped on it.

24 hours later went into the fermenter, hops and all. I only used pilsner malt and some carapils, though the amount of hops change colour a little and made it a tiny bit hazy but not as hazy as something like torpedo.


----------



## IsonAd

Sorry I meant did you dry hop as well as cube hop


----------



## damoninja

IsonAd said:


> Sorry I meant did you dry hop as well as cube hop


Nah, no dry hopping.


----------



## IsonAd

I recently split a 20l batch of APA to try out different methods. I dida 60 main addition then with 10 mins left I transferred half the batch to a cube with 90g of simcoe. The remaining half I did a 10 mins and 2 x 0 min additions with cascade and chilled this half. Both turned out great. Simcoe had.more flavour and aroma but cascade half had more complexity (for a single hopped beer).

To test further I split another batch but this time cube hopped with the same quantity and variety of hops in used in 10 & 0 mins additions that I then chilled. Tasting will be in about a week for this batch so I'll update. 

I've also gone a bit nuts and yesterday cube hopped with 275g of hops for a 20l batch. Prob won't start fermenting this for a couple of weeksnso hopefully the extra contact time won't produce grassy flavours. 

Will update bwith results as I go.


----------



## Samuel Adams

I cube hopped a beer a while ago and have done it to every (hoppy) beer since, it turned out great.
Really got that hop flavour and aroma that had been missing from my APA / IPA style beers.
I use beersmith and calculate my cube hops as 0 min "aroma" hops with "no chill" box ticked. Seems to my taste buds to be pretty close with IBU's

FYI - 
At flame out I leave for 10 min
Then whirlpool and leave for another 10-15 min
Then transfer to cube with the hops in it
When pouring into fermentor later on I only leave out the thick hop sludge right at the bottom.
Beers turn out nice & clear & hoppy


----------



## Ninegrain

Ninegrain said:


> I cube hopped with 50g of Glacier after leaving the kettle for 10 minutes to settle on my first BIAB last week. I did it by throwing the hops into the cube prior to filling it with the hot wort. Ended up over reducing to 17L, not the intended 20L so just tipped it all into the cube trub and all. Made it up to 23L at 1.057 and pitched last sunday and today its at 1.010 and tasting good. If the same tomorrow I will dry hop ~25g, crash chill for a week, keg and let you know how it tastes  Glacier is low AA so will see how it went for bitterness and work from there as a baseline for my next batches and more intense hops.




So the schedule above was never followed. I ended up 'lagering' it for almost a month due to laziness and it ended up in bottles. Dry hopped it though like I thought I would. Turned out delicious! Very floral, 'sweet' hop aromas, subtle bitterness and a delicious beer all round. I think I would classify it as a golden ale but with different malt it could have easily been a pilsener I reckon. Will do just that actually, at some point, and repeat this recipe but with pilsener base malt instead of ale. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sluggerdog

I've just tasted my first 100% cube hopped beer and to me the bitterness seems low. I caculated them as 20 min additions using 50/50 of Amarillo and Citra equalling 35 IBU. To my tastes it's well below this. (Flavour and aroma are spot on for what I was chasing so still happy with the beer).

Anyway I had a bit of a play around with the existing recipe and wondered if I caculated my cube hopped beers as 60 minutes steep instead of the 20 min boil addition. This brings my recipe down to around 28 IBU instead of 35 IBU which would probably be closer to the mark bitterness wise to my pallet.

I also thinking that cube hopping is closer to a steep then the boil addition anyway. I'm using beersmith mobile 2.2. for these calculations.

Thoughts on this?

Thanks


----------



## manticle

My wort goes into the cube around 80 degrees and this is the bottom end for aa isomerisation.
What temp is yours when cubing?


----------



## sluggerdog

manticle said:


> My wort goes into the cube around 80 degrees and this is the bottom end for aa isomerisation.
> What temp is yours when cubing?


Good point, mine went in straight after the boil so just under to 100 degrees I'd say.


----------



## Yob

Funnily enough, I tend to use a lot less that the amounts quoted above. I cubed 3 on the weekend, 100g in each. They are a move away from the big IPA's Ive been on over summer toward the APA to about 40IBU with an OG of about 1045 (Calculated not actual)

I'll generally have a go at a few liters first before any keg hopping takes place and a number of the kegs Ive been through have been about half way gone before I get round to giving it a boost.

I dont measure temps on the way to the cube though, enough time has passed though for convection to stop and a decent whirlpool to settle. at 75L it cant cool that fast surely... Been thinking about one of >THESE< though... just coz..


----------



## Midnight Brew

For information sake I've measured the temperature of wort (about 50ish L) and after 20 minute stand it was 97c and after a whirlpool and another stand (40minutes total) it was 95C. From that I just worked backwards and skipped late additions and went with cube hop calculating it as a 20 minute addition. Tastes about spot on but like manticle mentioned it depends on temperature.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Cube hopped my current APA - this is a stuff up brew - for various reasons, it came out as more volume at lower OG, thus IBU was up on what it should have been (thus rendering it an IPA).

Aroma is excellent - but not late hopping flavour. I can get late hopping flavour normally (in non stuff up conditions) and now I can get aroma by cube hopping, thus rendering chilling hoppy beers obsolete for me.

This has turned into a traditional (but lower abv%) IPA - bitter, aromatic, but not VALE:IPA late kettle additions fruit salad. Good beer.


----------



## jyo

Midnight Brew said:


> For information sake I've measured the temperature of wort (about 50ish L) and after 20 minute stand it was 97c and after a whirlpool and another stand (40minutes total) it was 95C. From that I just worked backwards and skipped late additions and went with cube hop calculating it as a 20 minute addition. Tastes about spot on but like manticle mentioned it depends on temperature.


I do a similar stand time as you, Midnight Brew, so will be interesting. I always thought the temp would be a lot lower than that, but there you go.

Cheers.


----------



## IsonAd

Just updating the test I did with split batch mentioned above with half the batch(11l) pulled off with 10min to go and cube hopped and the remaining 11l hopped with same amount as cube hop split between 10 &0 min additions then chilled. To mine and a few friends tastes the cube hop version had better flavour but Bitterness was the same. Very big fan of the cube hop results so far.


----------



## indica86

Samuel Adams said:


> I use beersmith and calculate my cube hops as 0 min "aroma" hops with "no chill" box ticked. Seems to my taste buds to be pretty close with IBU's


Can you please point me to where this is as I cannot find it.,


----------



## manticle

jyo said:


> I do a similar stand time as you, Midnight Brew, so will be interesting. I always thought the temp would be a lot lower than that, but there you go.
> 
> Cheers.


probably depends on your kettle insulation properties and a bunch of other factors. I stand my wort for a similar amount of time with an alu lid across the top to keep out dust, low flying rats and stray Malaysian aircraft but it's a keggle with the handles still intact so heat would be escaping. I've measured my wort into the cube at about 80 - 85 deg C


----------



## Samuel Adams

indica86 said:


> Can you please point me to where this is as I cannot find it.,


Sorry I actually use Brewmate not Beersmith.


----------



## Yob

Ive been Really happy with cube hopped beers lately and has evolved to a default process.. Ive been unhappy with the losses to the cube though so I deceided to do this





Cube at 18'c ready to be pitched




If, like me, you keg hop, chances are you have stacks of panty hose with the legs cut off, tie up the cut off legs area with dental floss and fit to FV. Secure with rubber band




Pour Cube




Pull the "bag" out and squeeze like a BIABer...

Minimal losses and the cube is easier to clean as you have managed to get all the hops out and not into the FV. I dont like all the hops going into the FV as I may want to re-use the yeast or culture some of it off depending on the ferment and minimising the amount of hops in there helps with the rinsing process.

Beer Wort pictured above is for the Vic July Swap beer.


----------



## TheWiggman

Good post Yob, was looking for this advice. In my sole effort at it I used a small hop bag with a drawstring and held onto it for dear life as it quickly filled with 60g of Cascade. It needed a squeeze and purge midway, and became a very messy job.
Would have been hilarious to witness.


----------



## LiquidGold

I used a strainer to hold a square piece of swiss voile since i didn't have any stockings but still wanted to squeeze all the goodness out instead of dumping it. With 105g of hops it also got pretty messy and needed to squeeze midway as well as use a spoon to stir the hops in the strainer to allow the wort to flow through. Needless to say stockings are on the to-buy list.

First time cube hopping and first AG IPA so really looking forward to tasting it!


----------



## Samuel Adams

I tried a strainer when transferring my last cube hopped beer to the fermenter with some success.
I reckon I got almost 1L that I would've missed out on without straining.
It was a bit ridiculous though with 200g of hops, I had to keep scraping the bottom so there was room for the liquid to go through.

I will try stockings or swiss voile next time.


----------



## Yob

make sure the rubber band or whatever is holding the stocking is tight and as low on the neck of the FV as possible, if you pour too quickly it'll want to pop off and the stocking will end up in the FV... 

several times.. yes..


----------



## jc64

I'm experimenting with no chill and cube hopping to supplement my chilled beers. How long have you been leaving the cube hopped worts before pitching? Noticing any vegetal tastes?


----------



## Yob

Months at times. No vegetal tastes, in fact, my last one had been that nice, I didn't even keg hop it


----------



## Wolfman

Why not just cube hop in a stocking? Then just pull the stocking out when pouring into the fermentor. 

Apologies if already been suggested.


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

Wolfman said:


> Why not just cube hop in a stocking? Then just pull the stocking out when pouring into the fermentor.
> 
> Apologies if already been suggested.


That is actually a pretty good idea. Might give it a go soon.


----------



## jc64

Any problem with the stocking and the heat of the wort? I've been putting them in loose and using my auto syphon to avoid taking them to the FV


----------



## pedleyr

That was my thought also. Without any science or evidence to back it up, I would be worried about a stocking at the temperature of near boiling wort. 

Also, yob's way = 1 stocking. Hops in the stocking = 1 stocking for every cube you have.


----------



## TheWiggman

I thought about doing that and was going to use a hop bag. I had enough trouble feeding it through the hole empty. Figured if it were full of hops I might not be able to pull it back out as they do tend to swell a lot. This was for 60g though.


----------



## LiquidGold

Pulling it out full of wet hops might actually give it a good squeeze and get everything out (or it might just get stuck and cause a big mess). Getting it in full of hops might be hard but maybe by having the bag in the cube with the top open and filling it up with hops. Sorta like Yob has done with the stocking in the fermenting vessel but with a hop bag in the cube, fill with pellets and tie it off before pouring wort in.


----------



## Wolfman

Yes I would use a hop bag. 

Done it several times. Hop bag goes in and comes out easy. Bit of the old in out in out my brothers.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

I suppose it's the same argument for hops going in commando - more utilisation because there's more surface area to cover and the hops get to swim around freely and maximise exposure.

Same reason I don't hop bag in the kettle.


----------



## Wolfman

If you have a big enough bag it should be ok?


----------



## jc64

I'm glad to hear that no vegetal flavours are being noticed even after leaving the cube with hops for some time. I think I will be brewing a IPA next up, double batch, changing up the cube hops to see how they compare. I was going to leave any hops that go in to the boil with at least ten to go as is, cube hopping the rest. Anyone else done this? How has the bitterness been effected?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

I'm cube hopping my 10 minute additions and treating them as 15 min additions in the software and that works very well for me.


----------



## seehuusen

I did a brew a couple of days ago, and whirlpooled the wort as I'd normally do.
Rather than adding 100C wort to the cube, I let it sit in the BK for about 45 minutes with the lid on, allowing the temp to drop to exactly 85C.
At that stage, I drained all the wort into a thuroughly sterilized fermenter, along with my hop addition.
Next day, I aerated the wort and added the yeast. It's currently fermenting away full throttle 

It will be interesting to see how it turns out, if it doesn't work, I'll give up on the no-chill and move over to chilling. So far the best fruity flavours has come from beers I've chilled in an ice bath (before I went to a bigger brewery size)...


----------



## jc64

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I'm cube hopping my 10 minute additions and treating them as 15 min additions in the software and that works very well for me.


Sounds good, I imagine cube hopping is not going to add a whole heap of extra bitterness. I'll give that a go Lord Raja


----------



## Tahoose

Cube hopping does give a bit more bitterness than you might expect. But it's a more smooth rounded bitterness.

To counter this you can just dial back your 90/60min addition a touch.

My normal hopping is 60min, cube hop(20 mins), dry hop.

Do a brew, see what you think, adjust or repeat next brew.


----------



## Trevandjo

I understand that it's common to add cube hops as 20min additions in Beersmith. Could someone please guide me in the right direction for when to actually add the hops for the recipe below as I want to no-chill.

Brewer: Trevor Mitchell
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26.84 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.79 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 19.49 l
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 7.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
4.65 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) ( Grain 1 93.9 % 
0.30 kg Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (55.0 SRM) Grain 2 6.1 % 
12.75 g Magnum [12.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 3 19.2 IBUs 
25.49 g Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 4 17.7 IBUs 
0.50 Items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 - 
25.00 g Cascade [6.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 6 0.0 IBUs 
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 7 - 
25.00 g Cascade [6.90 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs 


Mash Schedule: APA1
Total Grain Weight: 4.96 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Mash In Add 13.84 l of water at 74.9 C 67.0 C 60 min 

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun , 10.73l, 8.18l) of 78.0 C water
Notes:

Thanks
Trev


----------



## seamad

It's tricky to no chill 0min additions. I no chill but use a hop rocket/plate chiller for beers with late hop character. Before the rocket setup I'd let the kettle drop in temp to under 90, cube, then chuck in the pool to speed up the cooling. I'd count the 45min addition as a 60 as well because of the time delay.Generally I think no chilling is better off with a bittering addition at 60 and a 20 min ( cubed) and then dry hop.
cheers


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Or do some experiment with cube hopping after the wort has cooled a little. I plan on doing it when I get brewing in Qld.


----------



## Trevandjo

I think I'll swap to 60min Magnum and Cascade, add a 20min (cube hop) and dry hop 1g/L to the same IBUs. Thanks for the responses.


----------



## seehuusen

Hey guys,

Just a quick report back on the 85C/Cube addition experiment, as I just tested the gravity (dropped from 1.060 to 1.015 now, still fermenting away though)

YUM! 
The flavour from the citra addition is really noticeable, on par with my previously chilled version.
I think this no-chill business might still have a chance at the Bosco Brewhouse 

Cheers
Martin


----------



## LiquidGold

LiquidGold said:


> First time cube hopping and first AG IPA so really looking forward to tasting it!


Already had a couple of tasters after 12-14 days in the bottle and I am very impressed. I'm definately going to be using lots more cube additions from now on.


----------



## seehuusen

I've had a sneaky early bottle of my brew and it's very delicious! The missus reckons it is "the best IPA yet" 

I did another brew a few days ago, and it was a porter, using Saaz hops.
I have to say, that my previous unfortunate experience with cube hopping has completely dissipated.
The only thing that I will do from here on in, is add the wort to the cube at below 85C if I'm chasing hop aroma/ flavour, rather than bitterness. Otherwise, it seems the BrewMate calculations are pretty spot on.

I'm doing a Saison next, where I'll be chasing some aroma from the Summer (AU) hops addition, so I'll follow the technique I used with the IPA.

Cheers
Martin


----------



## BlueMutt

I've experimented lately with letting the wort cool down in the kettle to 85deg before adding 0min addition, I then whirlpool and let stand for 10-15mins before cubing. Seems to work well, just needed to adjust the early additions by 15mins.


----------



## Yob

One of the only things about cube hopping that pisses me off is the size of the opening in the cube.. makes getting the hops in there a PITA.. so to that end, the other night I spat the dummy and made this up




*©*


Aah.. much better, The funnel has been cut on an angle as well to enlarge the open side, is a much simpler method than any Ive tried before, did 3 cubes in no time yesterday...


Win


----------



## Samuel Adams

I use the top of a cut off water bottle as a funnel, yours looks much better though !


----------



## seehuusen

I fold a piece of paper into a cone, seems to do the trick for me.
I like the funnel idea, but don't understand why it has to have a screw on lid to the cube? can't you just hold it?


----------



## Tahoose

Have a big automotive funnel for mine, $2 at Kmart and its red so it goes faster.


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

seehuusen said:


> I fold a piece of paper into a cone, seems to do the trick for me.
> I like the funnel idea, but don't understand why it has to have a screw on lid to the cube? can't you just hold it?


I too employ the cone. Usually just the recipe notes I've printed out combined with my mad origami skillz.


----------



## Yob

seehuusen said:


> I fold a piece of paper into a cone, seems to do the trick for me.
> I like the funnel idea, but don't understand why it has to have a screw on lid to the cube? can't you just hold it?


how would I hold my beer?


----------



## seehuusen

LOL x2 on using the recipe notes  This beer holding thing isn't a bad idea, I am usually forced to take a big swig of beer prior to pouring the hops in, those 5 seconds would make me very thirsty otherwise LOL


----------



## Phoney

Yob said:


> One of the only things about cube hopping that pisses me off is the size of the opening in the cube.. makes getting the hops in there a PITA.. so to that end, the other night I spat the dummy and made this up


I just use those round plastic takeaway containers that you get from your local Thai joint, weigh up your hops in one of them, then just give it a squeeze and then pour em in. Easy.


----------

