# Water Adjustments



## UsernameTaken (2/6/16)

I have managed to ascertain the following about my water in western Victoria;

pH 7.3 to 8.4
Chlorine 2.6 to 3.5 mg/L
Chloramine 0.1 to 0.2 mg/L

So I am thinking a tea spoon of Gypsum to lower the pH and a charcoal filter to eliminate the Chlorine and Chloramine?

I am mostly brewing pale ales and IPA's, but am getting interested in ESB and Kolsch.

Would any of you experts suggest I do anything differently or in addition?

Cheers,
UNT


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## gap (2/6/16)

Those figures don't tell you very much about your water chemistry at all.
You need a much more comprehensive water break down.


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## UsernameTaken (2/6/16)

I do have a much more comprehensive water break down.

Too much information to be honest!

What else should I be looking at?

Cheers,
UNT


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## sp0rk (2/6/16)

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/


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## danestead (2/6/16)

The ph of your water doesn't really matter. You want to be taking note of your mash ph, and making acid or salt additions to bring that ph into the ideal range.

Mash ph
Calcium
Sulphate
Chloride
Sodium
Magnesium

Off the top of my head, those are the ones worth taking note of.


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## GalBrew (2/6/16)

UsernameTaken said:


> I do have a much more comprehensive water break down.
> 
> Too much information to be honest!
> 
> ...


If you don't look at the information regarding the minerals that you are interested in such ad calcium, chlorides, etc how do you know what to add? Not to mention it differs due to malt bill. Unfortunately, water chemistry is quite complex. If you don't have to headspace to tackle it properly, don't worry about it at all.

I would go and get a copy of the 'water' book, put out by Brewers publications.


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## Matplat (2/6/16)

danestead said:


> The ph of your water doesn't really matter.


Erm yes it does... you are correct that the goal is to correct the mash ph, but that is driven, in part, by the ph of the water that you start with.


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## drsmurto (2/6/16)

Matplat said:


> Erm yes it does... you are correct that the goal is to correct the mash ph, but that is driven, in part, by the ph of the water that you start with.


A very, very minor role. Mineral content and grainbill are the most important factors giving they control the buffering capacity of the mash.


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## danestead (2/6/16)

Matplat said:


> Erm yes it does... you are correct that the goal is to correct the mash ph, but that is driven, in part, by the ph of the water that you start with.


You will find, as Dr Smurto says below, that the hardness or buffering capacity of the water affects the outcome of the PH of your mash far greater than the PH of your brewing water. You could brew with a low hardness water like straight RO water (similar to what the traditional Pilsen water is) and the PH of that RO water will have next to no affect on the PH of the mash. Because of the low buffering capacity, the water will easily change to the PH that the grain is driving. This is one of the reasons that it is hard to measure the PH of RO/DI water; however, I digress.

Your statement does stand though if you brewed with a very hard source of water. The PH is less likely to be changed by the grain bill and any acid additions you may make.




DrSmurto said:


> A very, very minor role. Mineral content and grainbill are the most important factors giving they control the buffering capacity of the mash.


What ^^^^^ he said.


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## Matplat (2/6/16)

Fair enough, I just do what Bru'n'water tells me!


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## rude (6/6/16)

Also calcium to at least 50ppm to help , now what was it he said , oxolate ? here we go

Now I do have a minimum calcium level that most brewers should strive for and that is to provide at least 40 ppm IN THE MASH to help precipitate oxalate from the wort. That oxalate can cause beerstone problems around the brewery and it MIGHT promote kidney stones in beer drinkers if not precipitated (inconclusive).

He does say lagers generaly have less calcium

Have a read of Brun Water I have loved the water aspect to brewing has definately helped my beers


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## klangers (7/6/16)

Water chemistry isn't particularly difficult if you take them time to learn it properly. Learning by rote/rules may be quicker in the short term but you'll never really understand what you're doing.

If you're new to chemistry in general, or are a bit rusty, then of course it's going to be difficult as there are heaps of fundamentals to get your head around first. So don't despair!

I don't measure mash pH (as above; if your salts are right pH will sort itself out. Also decent pH meters aren't cheap) but I do adjust my water rather meticulously as per Palmer's spreadsheet. I generally try to imitate famous cities' water profile which has worked very very well indeed. In fact, the difference it has made is stark.


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## kevinj (7/6/16)

*[SIZE=10pt]I generally try to imitate famous cities' by klangers[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]What numbers do you use?[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=10pt]I recently did some reading on water and collecting of water profiles from articles and spread sheets.[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]Not one set of number was the same, not even from the same site (brewersfriend).[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]What gives?[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=10pt]Have spread sheet if you’re interested, includes all the formulas I found.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=10pt]With no chemistry at school, getting the head around[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]mEq/L is defined as milliequivalents per liter[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]and ppm or mg/L[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]and Alkalinity ppm as CaCO3[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]and so on [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=10pt]The 3rd time you read each article is the charm, sometimes.[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]Needed to use wiki to decipher the wiki.[/SIZE]*


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## Matplat (8/6/16)

I was reading about the Samuel Smith brewery in yorkshire established in 1758 (or some time around then), they bored a well for the brewery then and they use the same well today. I can't imagine the water composition is the same today as it was when they first started brewing with it....


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## yankinoz (8/6/16)

Are you an extract brewer or a masher? If extract and you're doing pale ales, your tsp of gypsum will work well to sharpen the bitterness.

If you're mashing get a complete water analysis and use an online spreadsheet. Braukaiser's on Brewer's Friend seems to produce reliable final pH estimates.


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## UsernameTaken (9/6/16)

I'm brewing all grain, so it looks like I have some homework. I do have the water report, so I will check out Braukaiser's!

Cheers,
UNT


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## rude (9/6/16)

Matplat said:


> I was reading about the Samuel Smith brewery in yorkshire established in 1758 (or some time around then), they bored a well for the brewery then and they use the same well today. I can't imagine the water composition is the same today as it was when they first started brewing with it



Thought the ground water would have been sitting there for a very very long time in the same surroundings

Whatever the water profile is they would still be getting their mash PH right per grist


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## fungrel (9/6/16)

UsernameTaken said:


> I'm brewing all grain, so it looks like I have some homework. I do have the water report, so I will check out Braukaiser's!
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


Post up the water report and maybe we can give you some more help if you need it.


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## UsernameTaken (9/6/16)

It's a pretty massive spreadsheet but that would be great if anyone could give me any advice!

Here it is...

Cheers,
UNT 

View attachment Lal Lal Water Report.xlsx


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## tomdavis (9/6/16)

This is a great spreadsheet UsernameTaken. Can I ask how you got hold of it? I'm after something similar for Bacchus Marsh.


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## UsernameTaken (9/6/16)

I just rang Central Highlands Water and asked them what they could tell me about my water quality. I had to chase it up a couple of times but they ended up emailing me this!

http://www.chw.net.au/

Cheers,
UNT


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## tomdavis (9/6/16)

Beauty, I'll give Western Water a try and see what they can send me. 

I've looked at your spreadsheet and I have gleaned that the details that will be useful you for any decent water spreadsheet are as follows (based on average):

pH = 7.9
Hardness = 139
Sodium = 59.3
Calcium = 19
Magnesium = 22.3
Chloride = 110
Sulphate = 7
Total Alkalinity = 90.5


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## UsernameTaken (9/6/16)

Thanks Carlos

Thats great to have this document reduced to it's key brewing points. I was getting a bit lost with it!

However, as I now understand it the main game is to measure my mash pH!

Can I do this with a pH strip bought from a chemist or do I need an expensive pH meter?

Cheers,
UNT


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## tomdavis (9/6/16)

Mash pH is definitely important, but it is also good to understand how the various elements of water react together in the mash and also in the finished product. 

A great 'easy to follow' resource I have found useful specific to Melbourne Water is Tony Wheeler's superb little paper.

Melbourne's water is quite neutral and good for brewing, but is calcium deficient, so that's something to bear in mind. 

If you get pH strips, get the limited range ones (pH 4 - 7) that are accurate for brewing.

pH meters are not expensive these days, but make sure you look after them and calibrate them using 4 and 7 testing solution. 

Also, it's good to cool your mash sample down to around room temp before testing. Don;t trust the auto-temp calibration on them!


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## Matplat (10/6/16)

I've read that ph strips aren't good because the colour of your beer can affect the reading....


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