# Cleaning Silicone Hose



## Jye (28/4/08)

Ive been using silicone hose for a while now and every time I look in through the end I cringe :blink: Its not the staining that Im worried about but the beer stone. Ive used caustic on the kettle and hose before but the stone still needs a bit of a scrub to remove it, which obviously cant be done with the hose.

So whats the best chemical method of removing it? Ive read breweries use a caustic wash followed by an acid wash (phos) but I have my doubt whether that will work unless I have a large flow rate through the hose to dislodge the beer stone.

Any experiences?

Cheers
Jye


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## SpillsMostOfIt (28/4/08)

I would have thought that a bit of a soak in some acid wash would do the trick - it does beautifully for my stainless stuff. Why would it not work for silicon? Sure, it might take a short soak, but...

Or am I missing the point of your question?


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## Adamt (28/4/08)

Hmm....

Maybe some sort of cleaning solution, rice gulls, and a lot of shaking? That would create the turbulence and some physical scrubbing action without damage to the inner walls of the pipe. Maybe even some gravel depending how tough it is.


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## Zwickel (28/4/08)

Jye said:


> So whats the best chemical method of removing it? Ive read breweries use a caustic wash followed by an acid wash (phos) but I have my doubt whether that will work unless I have a large flow rate through the hose to dislodge the beer stone.



as you said, acid is the go. Im using citric acid. What about if you leave your tubes over night soaked in citric acid?
Citric acid is easy to get, its the stuff to decalcify coffee machines etc.


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## Jye (28/4/08)

Zwickel what concentration are you using and is this the same citric acid you can get from the supermarket?


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## Zwickel (28/4/08)

yeah, citric acid one can get on supermarkets, but that little amounts are far too expensive, better to have a search at ebay.
For example, I got 25kg for around A$30, thats alittle bit more than A$1 for one kilo.
If you buy the same stuff for your kitchen machines, youd pay exorbitant more for it.

So if you are using citric acid everytime you brew, youd need a solution of 0.2 or 0.3% only, but if you do it once in a while, you should use a 5% solution.

Cheers

I forgot to say, basically the concentration depends on the hardness of your brewater. Very hard water needs a higher concentration.


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## Andyd (28/4/08)

I hook all my pipes into a line with hose couplers and then run a citric acid solution through them all with my march pump for about 10 minutes. Seems to do the trick.


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## Zwickel (28/4/08)

wow, also the price for citric acid rose enormously, last year Ive paid for a sack of 25kg about 22 Euro, today it costs 37 Euro.

for example: http://cgi.ebay.de/25-kg-Zitronensaeure-Le...9QQcmdZViewItem

What is going on with prices these days


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## 0M39A (29/4/08)

Buy some more hose?

lol, if its bothering you that much, its cheap enough to replace it.


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## FNQ Bunyip (29/4/08)

What about some sort off a pull through, Like cleaning a rifle.

I have done this with the old vinly tube befor,, but now have my pump and new silicon hose to play with..

Cheers


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## Jye (21/7/08)

Well it turns out nothing worked  until I scored some PBW  

I heated it up as per the instructions and as you can see from the pic it worked a treat. I no longer fear looking in the tube or through my tap since they are now sparkling clean, YAY  

The next step is to make a spray ball to clean the entire kettle without filling it with water.

I love this stuff :wub:


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## kabooby (21/7/08)

Whats PBW?

Edit: Found it on google, powdered brewers wash.


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## Jye (21/7/08)

Powdered Brewery Wash


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## deadly (21/7/08)

Anyone sell it here,where did you get it from please.


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## Jye (21/7/08)

The one and only Craftbrewer


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## mika (21/7/08)

What's it hidden under on their site ?


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## Frank (21/7/08)

I can't find it either. Can find Starsan, but it is sold out at the moment.



Jye said:


> The one and only Craftbrewer






mika said:


> What's it hidden under on their site ?


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## sanders4_ (21/7/08)

Not sure if it would work on really caked on beer stone in a hose, but i use Coopers sanitiser, which is terrible sanitiser, but being pure sodium percarbonate it cleans really well. I use it to get my kettle clean of beer stone, just have to let it soak for a while.

Available in coles or woolies.

Never seen that powdered brewery wash on craftbrewer...must check it out.


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## Ross (21/7/08)

Not on the site yet guys...won't be long.

cheers Ross


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## Online Brewing Supplies (29/7/08)

Better still use this HERE Cellarman is the best , many have tried it and many have been impressed. It removes stuff I didnt think would ever go.Its sold as a line cleaner but works well on all gear.
GB


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## tdh (29/7/08)

Cellarman is sodium percarbonate.
Napi-san or oxyper is cheaper.

tdh


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## Online Brewing Supplies (29/7/08)

tdh said:


> Cellarman is sodium percarbonate.
> Napi-san or oxyper is cheaper.
> 
> tdh


Im no chemist but its not what it says HERE..Can you explain why its Sodium percarbonate ? I would not wash my nappies in cellarman.  
GB


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## jojai (29/7/08)

Sodium Perborate Monohydrate 10-<30%
Sodium Carbonate 30-60%
Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid <10%

Geez they are accurate with the ingredient listing, 20% variance? 

Anyway, according to a quick read, Sodium Perborate undergoes hydrolysis when it comes into contact with water, so if you plan on mixing the napisan with water (and if napisan is sodium perborate) it will make Sodium Percarbonate Monohydrate, which is <30% of the Cellarman ingredient list. 

So I would say that there are differences between the substances... 

Besides, napisan has fragrance in it, another mix of chemicals you definitely do not want in your beer.

EDIT: spelling errors.

Oh I just realised, you said napisan is sodium percarbonate... not perborate.

"Sodium percarbonate is a white crystalline water-soluble chemical compound of sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide." Wiki listing.

It releases Sodium Carbonate when mixed with water (the dominant chemical in Cellarman). However, my other comment about purity of fragrances still holds. In short, perhaps the higher price tag is worth it to use a food specific product?


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## LethalCorpse (29/7/08)

Napisan babycare, or the homebrand stuff, are unscented.


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## tdh (30/7/08)

How come you're still wearing nappies? B) 

You certainly can wash nappies (yours or mine) in Cellarman, very expensive though.

Sodium perborate dissolves at lower temps and is effective at lower temps so better suited to temprites that are left on during the pubs line cleaning routine.

Sodium percarbonate is more effective overall but works best at higher water temps (65*C me thinks).

I've used unscented Napisan-like products and Oxyper (higher SPC concentration) for years now and find that products like Cellarman and proprietary coffee machine cleaners are a gross waste of money. The few extra benefits that these products have, I find, are minimal.

tdh





Gryphon Brewing said:


> Im no chemist but its not what it says HERE..Can you explain why its Sodium percarbonate ? I would not wash my nappies in cellarman.
> GB


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## jojai (30/7/08)

I stand corrected then if there is no problem with over chemical exposure, go for the napisan type stuff.


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## KGB (30/7/08)

LethalCorpse said:


> Napisan babycare, or the homebrand stuff, are unscented.



Thanks LC, I was looking the other day and wondered how to tell which are unscented. I ended up going with bleach instead for an over night fermenter soak.


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## blackbock (18/8/08)

Just reading this thread again, I notice from the PDF file Jye linked to that PBW is largely Sodium Metasilicate, which is the main ingredient listed on Brew Cellar's "Bottle Washing Powder." I am wondering whether it is a comparable product?

Has anyone used that stuff?


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## TidalPete (12/11/08)

Jye said:


> Well it turns out nothing worked until I scored some PBW
> 
> I heated it up as per the instructions and as you can see from the pic it worked a treat. I no longer fear looking in the tube or through my tap since they are now sparkling clean, YAY
> 
> ...



Jye,

What do you mean by "Spray Ball"?
Do you mean just adding a drop of detergent as a surfactant with the PBW to a sprayer then spraying???? Did this work???

TP :beer:


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## Jye (12/11/08)

I tried a couple of different sprinkler heads in the top of my kettle so I could recirculate the PBW solution through my kettle, however my pumps was either to slow or the soil was clogging the sprinkler head. I still want to get it going as it would make clean a piece of cake.


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## Paul H (12/11/08)

Jye said:


> I tried a couple of different sprinkler heads in the top of my kettle so I could recirculate the PBW solution through my kettle, however my pumps was either to slow or the soil was clogging the sprinkler head. I still want to get it going as it would make clean a piece of cake.



There is a new product out called "HTFU elbow grease" works a treat :icon_cheers:


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## bonj (13/11/08)

TidalPete said:


> Jye,
> 
> What do you mean by "Spray Ball"?
> Do you mean just adding a drop of detergent as a surfactant with the PBW to a sprayer then spraying???? Did this work???
> ...


Pete, according to Jon Herskovits from 5 Star Chemicals (at ANHC), the PBW already has a surfactant in it.

edit: spelling


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## petesbrew (13/11/08)

LethalCorpse said:


> Napisan babycare, or the homebrand stuff, are unscented.






KGB said:


> Thanks LC, I was looking the other day and wondered how to tell which are unscented. I ended up going with bleach instead for an over night fermenter soak.



It's best to still check. I bought some no-name napisan (can't remember which shops version) and discovered it was lemon scented... it was in small print I missed.


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