# Ways to purify and sterilise water



## maclarkson (11/10/17)

Hi all,

I was hopping to make a new brew and was wondering if there was any other method of sterilising the water other than to have to boil it for hours. Could I use bottled water or use a reverse osmosis filter setup for instance or anything else? 

Thank all


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## manticle (11/10/17)

By sterilising, what do you mean exactly? What are you trying to remove?


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## dr K (11/10/17)

Interesting point and one that goes back to the middle ages.
Why would you want to boil drinking water for hours, perhaps you want to concentrate it..


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## Dae Tripper (11/10/17)

Well just boiling water doesn't make it sterile. Way to do this would be boiling under pressure just like an autoclave. But hey you will have most bugs beat at 10 min.


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## RobinW (12/10/17)

I found that in Brisbane and prolly in most big cities they use chlorimine in the water not chlorine.
Campdon tablets will kill it but that's adding chemicals to chemicals. You *can not *boil it out easily.
It's a chlorine/ammonia compound. Nasty stuff.

I've yet to get one grain brew under my belt but I'm getting there.

I'm making RO water and using it in my fresh wort brews

My local brew shop gave me the numbers for beer smith..

I believe water is the key.


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## RobinW (12/10/17)

Ohh...... Got a 4 stage RO filter from ebay in Brisbane for under $140
Makes 15 litres in about 2 hours,


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## maclarkson (12/10/17)

So are you guys who are using RO getting a better brew?


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## maclarkson (12/10/17)

RobinW said:


> I found that in Brisbane and prolly in most big cities they use chlorimide in the water not chlorine.
> Campdon tablets will kill it but that's adding chemicalsto chemicals. You *can not *boil it out.
> It's a chlorine/ammonia compound. Nasty stuff.
> 
> ...



I was just reading up about choline in water apparently it’s chloramine rather chloramide. Chloromine unlike chlorine apparently can take up to 18.hours of boiling to get rid of it from a 21ltr batch. For clorimine reduction the cam den tablets can remove this but you have to make sure that you use the potassium types, apparently much better for a brew.


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## MHB (12/10/17)

You need to know what is in your water and what it needs to make it better for brewing.
A RO unit if it is well looked after (many aren't) will give you a pretty blank slate, you would be wanting to add some salts especially Calcium as 50-100ppm of Ca is regarded as a minimum.
My local water is good (they mostly use Chlorine rather than Chloramine), if anything a bit light on for most minerals, for some styles I use a two stage filter (particulate then carbon) followed by UV steriliser if it's necessary. For yeast I use Pureau water from woolies, its about as 'pure' as you can get.
If you just want to get rid of Chlorine/Chloramine I would use Potassium/Sodium Metabisulphite (Campden tablets), would only be bothered boiling if there was a lot of Bicarbonate in my water... do what is necessary to improve the water I have.

There are several threads on local water analysis one called "big thread on water around Australia" or something like that, look at your local water analysis there if you can, or on your local water authority website, work out what you are trying to achieve and go from there.
Mark


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## Rocker1986 (12/10/17)

I have a water still that I use for distilling water for pilsners to get it really soft but I don't bother with other styles. I don't know if distilling removes chloramine so just a pinch of potassium metabisulphite goes in to remove it in the distilled water and normal tap water. I have campden tablets too but I find them a bitch to dissolve so I switched to the powdered version.


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## wynnum1 (12/10/17)

vitamin c is also used .


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## Adr_0 (12/10/17)

wynnum1 said:


> vitamin c is also used .


Ascorbic acid is my choice.

In response to the original post, having chloramine in your reticulated water basically makes sure that there are no nasties picked up after it leaves the treatment plants.

So for health reasons, at least in terms of faecal coliforms or microbes, chlorine is good. But you absolutely must remove it before mashing otherwise your beer will have a horrible bite and smell to it - which you probably won't notice until it's pointed out to you.

I use ascorbic acid because it's basically instantly dissolved unlike a Campden tablet (which takes another step to crush - they are quite hard).

For each litre and each ppm of chloramine or chlorine you should add 4mg ascorbic acid. So for me, 2-3ppm and 30L requires about 300-400mg ascorbic acid. Sodium met requires a similar amount.


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## Rocker1986 (12/10/17)

I can't say I've noticed any change to the flavor of my beers since I started using potassium met in the water, but I figure it's better to prevent the possibility in the first place.


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## earle (12/10/17)

Adr_0 said:


> Ascorbic acid is my choice.
> 
> In response to the original post, having chloramine in your reticulated water basically makes sure that there are no nasties picked up after it leaves the treatment plants.
> 
> ...



Good for scurvy too. Just another good reason to drink beer.


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## Adr_0 (12/10/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> I can't say I've noticed any change to the flavor of my beers since I started using potassium met in the water, but I figure it's better to prevent the possibility in the first place.


The dose of chlorine/chloramine can vary week to week based on community water usage and ambient temperature, where you actually get your water, and the beers you make.

It may go undetected for a while but then the holes in the cheese line up and you pick it up. It's also possible that you're not familiar with the exact smell/flavour/mouthfeel and may miss it being there.


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## Rocker1986 (12/10/17)

Yeah, whatever the case I certainly didn't notice any problems in the few years I brewed without removing the chloramine. Either way it doesn't get much simpler than giving the water a bit of a stir and dropping a pinch of powder in to remove it and prevent the potential, so I do it on every batch. I find the powdered potassium met dissolves almost instantly as well.


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## Meddo (12/10/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> I have a water still that I use for distilling water for pilsners to get it really soft but I don't bother with other styles. I don't know if distilling removes chloramine so just a pinch of potassium metabisulphite goes in to remove it in the distilled water and normal tap water. I have campden tablets too but I find them a bitch to dissolve so I switched to the powdered version.



Put it in a ziplock bag and give it a tickle with the flat side of a meat mallet 

(or just use the powdered stuff...)


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## JDW81 (12/10/17)

earle said:


> Good for scurvy too. Just another good reason to drink beer.



I'm sorry to inform you that the ascorbic acid won't make it into the final product. Like most vitamins, it is highly heat sensitive and will be degraded by the boil.


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## earle (12/10/17)

JDW81 said:


> I'm sorry to inform you that the ascorbic acid won't make it into the final product. Like most vitamins, it is highly heat sensitive and will be degraded by the boil.


Sssshhhh. Let's not let fact get in the way of a good reason to drink beer.


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## manticle (12/10/17)

I still don't get what OP is aiming to achieve so advice is going to be a guess at best.

Sterilise? Distil? Purify? Remove bacteria/microflora, remove heavy metals/unwanted mineral content, remove chlorine/ammonia? 

All of these have different approaches/solutions.


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## rude (12/10/17)

He wants another way to sterilise water
I think he is doing a bit of reading which is good
Hey Mac how do you brew ?
Do you all grain , partial or K&K
I think I brew better beers using an R/O filter system but say I was in Melbourne I wouldnt use one


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## manticle (12/10/17)

Yes but sterilise has a very specific meaning.

It's not remotely the same as dropping out minerals which is not the same as removing chlorine.

Need clarification, preferably from OP in order to provide useful information specific to the question being asked


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## RdeVjun (13/10/17)

Context is important, no critical here in fact. Need more information about the OP's application, it will make a considerable difference to the validity of any answers.
Eg. Cleaning up manky rainwater for a kit or ROing for AG, both have a particular purpose in the right context but in no way could they be swapped and achieve the same ends. Seeing as we're in the recipe & ingredients/ water subforum then it's not obvious what the application is.
So, over to you mate, tell us exactly what you are doing?


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## Adr_0 (13/10/17)

MHB said:


> You need to know what is in your water and what it needs to make it better for brewing.
> A RO unit if it is well looked after (many aren't) will give you a pretty blank slate, you would be wanting to add some salts especially Calcium as 50-100ppm of Ca is regarded as a minimum.
> My local water is good (they mostly use Chlorine rather than Chloramine), if anything a bit light on for most minerals, for some styles I use a two stage filter (particulate then carbon) followed by UV steriliser if it's necessary. For yeast I use Pureau water from woolies, its about as 'pure' as you can get.
> If you just want to get rid of Chlorine/Chloramine I would use Potassium/Sodium Metabisulphite (Campden tablets), would only be bothered boiling if there was a lot of Bicarbonate in my water... do what is necessary to improve the water I have.
> ...


I have used the Pureau a lot for paler beers to dilute my moderate water (eg 10L out of 30L) but what is your logic for using it with yeast, given there should be some trace Ca and Zn? Just because there's no chlorine and it's convenient or something else?


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## maclarkson (13/10/17)

Meddo said:


> Put it in a ziplock bag and give it a tickle with the flat side of a meat mallet
> 
> (or just use the powdered stuff...)



[emoji23]


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## maclarkson (13/10/17)

Will use the potassium then


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## Adr_0 (13/10/17)

maclarkson said:


> Will use the potassium then


So while you're here... What are you trying to achieve?


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## MHB (13/10/17)

Adr_0 said:


> I have used the Pureau a lot for paler beers to dilute my moderate water (eg 10L out of 30L) but what is your logic for using it with yeast, given there should be some trace Ca and Zn? Just because there's no chlorine and it's convenient or something else?


Its sterile - as is in IV grade sterile and completely free of any other chemicals, I have seen the seven step process they use.
So it is a blank slate, and yes if you want anything in it, you have to add it. One of the good quality yeast nutrients on the market will give the yeast everything it needs in terms of trace elements given that it is mostly autolysed yeast (soylent green for yeast) and a good supply of Nitrogen (DAP).
It is also convenient and reasonably inexpensive (well compared to setting up a modulab water supply) - also tastes great, I drink a lot more of it than I use for yeast.
Mark


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## Adr_0 (13/10/17)

Yeah it's great to have a 5L or 10L on the counter. I figured it must be packaged pretty close to sterile but wasn't aware of the process - I just assumed chlorine removal, UF, RO, deionise and pasteurise. Tastes great whatever they've done... I should use it for rehydration, should get my hands on some nutrient and should figure out my zinc levels. I generally use a Coopers lager tin in the fridge for making starters and rehydrate with dechlorinated tap water.


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## garage_life (13/10/17)

Adr_0 said:


> Ascorbic acid is my choice.
> 
> In response to the original post, having chloramine in your reticulated water basically makes sure that there are no nasties picked up after it leaves the treatment plants.
> 
> ...





earle said:


> Good for scurvy too. Just another good reason to drink beer.


Asorbic acid is AKA citric acid if I remember reading food ingredients lists right?


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## MHB (13/10/17)

garage_life said:


> Asorbic acid is AKA citric acid if I remember reading food ingredients lists right?


Not even close, Wikipedia is just a click away - I suggest you have a look at the two chemicals then you will "know" the difference
Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid.
Mark


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## garage_life (15/10/17)

MHB said:


> Not even close, Wikipedia is just a click away - I suggest you have a look at the two chemicals then you will "know" the difference
> Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid.
> Mark


Sorry, my bad! Vitamin C, I knew I'd looked it up before at some point


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