# Modus Sonic Prayer clone ?



## mongey (5/12/18)

I like this beer . cant seem to find any recipes for it online 

the website says its Munich, Wheat ,carahell

any ideas what ratio would work with these malts in an IPA ? 

my munich use up to now has been as an enhancer ,rather than a main malt . 

Cara hell I got no idea.


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## altone (5/12/18)

mongey said:


> I like this beer . cant seem to find any recipes for it online
> 
> the website says its Munich, Wheat ,carahell
> 
> ...



I'd be pretty sure there would be a big chunk of base malt behind the munich but don't actually know.

I've done IPA's before with 70% pale 15% munich 10% wheat and the rest Crystal which is kind of like Carahell.

I think the hops would be the main driver for getting something close to a clone of this one.
It's been a while since tasting but my notes say Pine, stonefruit and lots of citrus.

I thought it might be Haalartau Saaz and Cascade - but of course they use Cascade Motueka and Pacific Jade.
I just listed hops I'd used before with similar flavour/aroma.

Hope someone can help you a bit more than I have


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## theSeekerr (5/12/18)

Looks like their convention is to list the malts in descending order, and on their other beers they list "Pale" first, which implies this one is majority Munich, which is pretty weird. Maybe it's just an error, or maybe they distinguish between "Pale" malt and "Ale" malt, and just leave the "Ale" malt out of all their labels.

(EDIT: Nope - many of their beers list both Pale and Ale in the malts section, so unless this one breaks with their convention, it really does have a big whack of Munich!)

Without knowing what's going on there, I'd be very cautious about proceeding to design a recipe, because I really wouldn't expect more than....say 20% tops Munich in an IPA.

Wheat is probably around 10%, Carahell probably 2-5%....if I had to guess I'd say 15% Munich, which leaves 70-73% base malt.

But maybe it really is largely munich, lightened up by a LOT of malted wheat? I guess you could do that...haven't run the numbers at all though. If I was going down that path I guess I'd start with about 50/45/5 Munich/Wheat/Cara and adjust those ratios until Beersmith says the colour is right...


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## mongey (5/12/18)

thanks

Yeah the others seem to be in descending order

I did an IPA with 15% Munich a few batches ago and while i like it it is def pushing the Munich limit for me . which is why I was surprised as i drink a can of the sonic prayer fairly often, say 1 a week ,and like it .I don't get that extra munichy vibe

maybe I'll email them and see if they can push me in the right direction

I started mapping it out in brewers friend and put 48/48/4 just to see and the color is pretty spot on . b


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## altone (5/12/18)

theSeekerr said:


> Looks like their convention is to list the malts in descending order, and on their other beers they list "Pale" first, which implies this one is majority Munich, which is pretty weird. Maybe it's just an error, or maybe they distinguish between "Pale" malt and "Ale" malt, and just leave the "Ale" malt out of all their labels.
> 
> (EDIT: Nope - many of their beers list both Pale and Ale in the malts section, so unless this one breaks with their convention, it really does have a big whack of Munich!)
> 
> ...



LOL your ratios are pretty close to my tried and tested ones.

I'd be surprised if it had such a huge amount of Munich as I find it gives a very malty and kind of thick taste (don't know how to describe it)
and my notes an this beer include - little malt taste slightly watery but still enough malt to balance the hops.
If it had a huge amount of wheat I would have thought I'd pick it up too.

I'd stick close to the ratios above and experiment with the hops first, at least that way you'll have a decent IPA and can experiment further once you've got the hops in the ballpark.


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## altone (5/12/18)

mongey said:


> thanks
> 
> Yeah the others seem to be in descending order
> 
> ...


Always worth a shot. Some brewers are quite happy to give you ingredient ratios while others guard them like their life depends on it.


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## Liam_snorkel (5/12/18)

I regularly use ~50% munich, have gone up to 100%, same with wheat.
It could quite possibly be something like 50% munich 1, 45% wheat, 5% cara as theseekerr suggested. The beer does have a fair bit of colour, bordering on amber / light red, but is much drier than an amber ale. Mash low and go go go. 
and you absolutely must listen to Earthless while brewing it.


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## altone (5/12/18)

Liam_snorkel said:


> I regularly use ~50% munich, have gone up to 100%, same with wheat.
> It could quite possibly be something like 50% munich 1, 45% wheat, 5% cara as theseekerr suggested. The beer does have a fair bit of colour, bordering on amber / light red, but is much drier than an amber ale. Mash low and go go go.
> and you absolutely must listen to Earthless while brewing it.




Wow so the munich and wheat kind of balance each other - interesting.
As for the link, so prog rock based I might need to check Earthless out as well


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## mongey (5/12/18)

Just grabbed one from botttlo and drinking it now and it may be my mind playing tricks but I am getting a Munich whack I haven’t really thought about before. 

Like Liam said with a low dry mash it might just be right on.


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## Lionman (6/12/18)

I have done a couple of Munich IPA SMASH brews. They are really tasty.

I'd try 

55% Light Munich (10L)
40% Wheat Malt
5% Carahell


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## mongey (19/12/18)

Emailed modus. Nope. Not even a rough hint of where to start. I like their beers and all but it’s a bit up your own arse really.


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## mongey (13/2/19)

so finally getting round to having a bash at this on Saturday

thinking

23l batch

6.5kg grain


50 % light munich
45% wheat
5% cara helll



Mash 63 for 60 min

app tells me at my efficiency ill be right on 6% like the modus 

gonna mix up the hops from the website as I have hops from a recent bulk buy to use ,so its not a clone I guess .

wanna keep the bitterness mildish and just under 45 IBU for this one


10g magnum 60 min
20g each amarillo centeinnal citra at both at 10 min and 5 min

us 05 or wlp001

then dry hop all 3 hops probably 100g all up


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## ABG (13/2/19)

Thanks for the update @mongey 

I haven't used such a high percentage of Munich and I'm really interested to know how this one turns out. Let me know if you're keen to swap a bottle of this batch for a bottle of my finest. PM me if you're interested.


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## akx (13/2/19)

Does light Munich have enough diastic power to convert the wheat? I thought wheat needed to be mashed with a base malt. But I'm not sure?


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## fungrel (13/2/19)

akx said:


> Does light Munich have enough diastic power to convert the wheat? I thought wheat needed to be mashed with a base malt. But I'm not sure?


Flip that thought. Wheat has a lot of diastatic power, more than light Munich.


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## Liam_snorkel (13/2/19)

It's huskless so you'd want to throw in rice hulls if you're using a high percentage of wheat, that could be why people report lower efficiency with more wheat hence the rumour about needing to mash with other grain.


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## mongey (18/2/19)

brewed this Saturday . went ok. a couple hiccups 

my efficiency was 5 to 10% lower than usual/expected . bumped back up with a little dex no biggie . 


then getting ready to cube while my whirlpool sat I realized there was a big glob of caked on sodium prec on the inside top of of my 20l cube that I couldn't shake off .needs a good soak. so I had to cube in my 25l cube which I had to top off with about 4l of boiling water to be able to compress it enough to push out all the air.

so according the the numbers my 6% IPA is now a 5.3% APA 

not a huge deal . and I have 4 more liters of beer than expected


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## Schikitar (19/2/19)

mongey said:


> so I had to cube in my 25l cube which I had to top off with about 4l of boiling water to be able to compress it enough to push out all the air



I really don't think this is necessary, especially if going into short term storage. Others may disagree but I never had a problem when I used to short-cube. I mean ideally you would fill to the brim but if pitching the next day then I wouldn't be too concerned..


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## mongey (19/2/19)

Schikitar said:


> I really don't think this is necessary, especially if going into short term storage. Others may disagree but I never had a problem when I used to short-cube. I mean ideally you would fill to the brim but if pitching the next day then I wouldn't be too concerned..


yeah agreed. It is sitting around at least week until my fermenter is empty .Maybe 2 if I don't get a chance to bottle as planned this weekend .so I thought it best to fill it up


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## mongey (25/3/19)

so to close this off. brewed it and its been in bottles 2 weeks .sampled a few 

it def has a character of the sonic prayer in the malt flavor. I used different hops so its was never gonna be a clone 

also color is lighter than original and I expected . less amber more pale. 

but all in all its a good beer . high munch and wheat ratios combined work


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## peekaboo_jones (4/4/19)

mongey said:


> so to close this off. brewed it and its been in bottles 2 weeks .sampled a few
> 
> it def has a character of the sonic prayer in the malt flavor. I used different hops so its was never gonna be a clone
> 
> ...


Well done man, sounds like a top drop


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