# Taking on the big guns- Thunder Road vs CUB



## djar007 (15/4/13)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-04-15/beer-trademark-hearing-in-melbourne/4630262


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## treefiddy (15/4/13)

"I think to put an analogy and say if somebody walked up to Holden and said, 'you haven't made Monaro for a couple of years, we're going to take it from you', I think most people would think that's an unreasonable proposition," he said.


More like if someone walked up to Nissan and said "You haven't made a Datsun 120Y for a couple of years, we're going to take it from you". Nissan would think that it was an unwise proposition, and that the person making that claim would soon be out of business.


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## bum (15/4/13)

Every time I sit down to a new beer I always think to myself "Damn! That's one tasty Trademark!"


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## jyo (16/4/13)

Unless they are going to replicate the beers using the exact recipes, similar ingredients and processes (which doesn't seem to be their intention), you are just going to be drinking reminiscence.


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## fletcher (16/4/13)

what a pathetic waste of time and effort.


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## doon (16/4/13)

Yeah this doesnt exactly make me want to buy thunder road beer. Just makes them look like wankers


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## goomboogo (16/4/13)

It's probably time Thunder Road gave up on this schtick.


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## djar007 (16/4/13)

I guess its a good publicity tool. Wish some of those older type bottles were still made.


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## Nick JD (16/4/13)

Thunder road sounds like a bottle bomb brewery.


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## sp0rk (16/4/13)

Don't they only do kegs?


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## bum (16/4/13)

Please try to make sure your "Dad jokes" reflect commercial reality in future, Nick.


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## Nick JD (16/4/13)

Apologies.

I'm off to buy some vintage beer.


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## sp0rk (16/4/13)

oops, chalk it up to me taking stuff too literally...


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## Bribie G (16/4/13)

TR say they don't want the original recipes so what's the point. CUB at least have access to the original recipes when they release heritage brews. The ones I have tasted have been pretty good attempts.

For example I'm possibly the only forum member who actually drank Bulimba and when they rereleased it and Brisbane Bitter in 2011 it was a cracker, bearing in mind the changes in available ingredients over the decades. I did a side by side with the direct descendant of the original brew Carlton Draught and the CD was foul. So no they don't just re-can VB.

Some members bought the heritage brews and didn't think much of them. However if they travelled back to the 60s and fronted the bar they wouldn't have been all that impressed anyway as the styles obviously are not to their taste. 

Point is that CUB do a reasonable stab at the recipes and it's not just a slick gimmick as opposed to TR.


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## Bridges (16/4/13)

The point is though that CUB doesn't bother to do them as they don't make any coin from them.
My old man would crawl over broken glass for abbots lager. I don't know why I never thought much of the stuff even when I was pinching them out of the fridge at 16. But if he could buy an abbots lager all the time he'd be happy and a smaller brewer could probably make a profit from the nostalgia. Provided what was in the bottles was most of the way to the original recipe, or even better. (more malt fresh hops etc)
Yep its slick marketing, its a win win for TR they get permission to use the brands they are hero's to generations of disillusioned CUB drinkers who've had their beer disappear or change, they don't and they are still the little guys taking on the big guys and those good aussie battlers deserve a shot so either way equals selling more beer.
Good luck to em.


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## Vitalstatistix (16/4/13)

personally I am more interested in breweries trying to make something new, not marketing companies trying to make (old and/or shit) beer....


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## wombil (16/4/13)

Hey Bribie,
I have drank Bulimba beer at the old Bulimba Brewery.
It was about the best beer I have ever had but wouldn't give tuppence for it at any of their hotels,bloody awful.
Thunder Road should grow a brain.


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## Nick JD (16/4/13)

I had a can of Brisbane Bitter after drinking one of my Saisons. It was worse than VB.

These old Aussie beers need to be buried. Deeply.


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## Mikedub (16/4/13)

Thunder Road are looking for an assistant brewer, I like their honesty, though not sure about "anything and everything our head brewer requires" well..... 

"The main responsibilities for this position include A LOT of cleaning, shovelling spent grain and generally maintaining the world class hygiene standards of our Brewhouse, cellars and yeast area daily. Setting up the tasting panel and cleaning down after. Complete keg washing and filling, scrubbing drains, and anything and everything else that our Head Brewer & Production Manager requires assistance with.
Brewhouse operations (milling, mashing, boiling, etc), cellar-related operations and some laboratory and QA analyses (cell counting, pitch rates, gravity checks etc) - packaging operations (keg cleaning and filling, carbonation, etc)."

http://www.thunderroadbrewing.com/job-board/


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## BeerNess (16/4/13)

TR have their heads up their own asses on this one.

As much as i dislike CUB and everything they stand for, I don't think TR has any rights to any of them. Why would they want them either? Publicity stunts. pfffttt


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## WarmBeer (16/4/13)

Mikedub said:


> Thunder Road are looking for an assistant brewer, I like their honesty, though not sure about "anything and everything our head brewer requires" well.....


Well, he is called the "head" brewer for a reason...


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## manticle (16/4/13)

Nick JD said:


> I had a can of Brisbane Bitter after drinking one of my Saisons. It was worse than VB.
> 
> These old Aussie beers need to be buried. Deeply.


You had a beer once that wasn't nice so historically all beer from that country must also be dreadful?

I like how easy decision making can be.


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## bum (16/4/13)

BeerNess said:


> Publicity stunts.


And they say Australian slang is dead.


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## Bribie G (16/4/13)

I had a saison at a case swap and it was worse than Brisbane Bitter.

Actually BB was a bit manky even then, it was brewed for the swinging dudes and chix set that was arising in the 70s in Brisbane, where Bulimba and even XXXX were becoming considered to be old blokey, so BB didn't really have a lot of flavour and character, pleasant drink however and heads and shoulders above current dudes and chix beer like TED.

The Bulimba was a really good interpretation of the straw-coloured and quite bitter draught version of the 70s which I used to drink gallons of at the Granville Hotel Maryborough and the Torquay Hotel Hervey Bay (blue pubs).

CUB occasionally do a release of Tooths KB in the gold can, wouldn't mind getting my hands on a slab.


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## manticle (17/4/13)

Your assessment of history (and market forces) is incredible. Everything old dies out because it's shit and is only ever superseded by improved products.


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## Nick JD (17/4/13)

manticle said:


> Your assessment of history (and market forces) is incredible. Everything old dies out because it's shit and is only ever superseded by improved products.


Name me another great beer that is now gone.


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## Bribie G (17/4/13)

Two excellent drops killed by Kirin: Carbine Stout, XXXX Draught red label. Both way above the quality of all those modern crisp dry shyte beers.


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## TidalPete (17/4/13)

wombil said:


> Hey Bribie,
> I have drank Bulimba beer at the old Bulimba Brewery.
> .


[SIZE=medium]As I did Womil! Drank there every week day when working at the old Evens Deakin shipyards. The free beer o’clock at the brewery kept the ranks thin at the Valley police station too IIRC.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Brisbane Bitter *was* “The Taste That You Can Stay With” in those days Bribie.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]+1 for the Carbine Stout & the Red Label.[/SIZE]


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## manticle (17/4/13)

@Nick:

There are examples of historical styles and brands all over the world that have been ressurrected precisely because people thought they were wonderful. I'm not familiar enough with AU brewing history nor personally experienced with pre-cub beers (and I doubt you are either) but I don't need to be to suggest that your assessment of beers you've never tried and the way capitalism actually works are baseless and flawed.


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## GalBrew (17/4/13)

Unless you are recreating the authentic recipe from historical documents (which is not the case here) why again do you want these brands?? Can't think of anything new to do yourself?? :huh:


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## Bribie G (17/4/13)

It's sad that UK historical brews are well documented and frequently published - the hero being the Shut up About Barclay Perkins site by Ronald Pattinson, whilst virtually nothing is known or revealed about Australian historical brews. I don't even think it's known what hops were used before POR, and that's only in the 1950s.

I know that some of our senior members - for example AndrewQLD have done a few brews from the UK site and come up with great results, I'll have to get cracking myself over winter when I can get round to buying a candy thermometer for my inverts.


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## Nick JD (17/4/13)

manticle said:


> @Nick:
> 
> There are examples of historical styles and brands all over the world that have been ressurrected precisely because people thought they were wonderful. I'm not familiar enough with AU brewing history nor personally experienced with pre-cub beers (and I doubt you are either) but I don't need to be to suggest that your assessment of beers you've never tried and the way capitalism actually works are baseless and flawed.


I haven't read your whole post as I'm busy learning to hula hoop.


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## manticle (17/4/13)

Righto then chief.

Best of luck with that


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## Nick JD (17/4/13)

Wait. Did I say hula hoop?

I meant Halo 4.

It's not 1960.


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## pk.sax (17/4/13)

Tell the gypsies at burleigh heads that.

Mmmmm gypsies.


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## Feldon (17/4/13)

Bribie G said:


> ... virtually nothing is known or revealed about Australian historical brews. I don't even think it's known what hops were used before POR, and that's only in the 1950s.


[SIZE=small]"The accompanying illustrations show the hop cylinders filled with Bavarian hops, kindly placed at my disposal for photographing by the Foster Brewing Co. They are made of strong galvanized iron, are 4 ft. 4 in. deep, and 2 ft. 4 in. in diameter, carrying about 2 cwt. of hops. The movable lids are fitted with air-tight packing rings, and there is generally an aperture in the centre with a tap, so that sulpliurous acid gas can be injected under pi'essure after the lid is closed. The hops are all hand-pressed, and not with hydraulic pressure, since the latter process crushes the lupulin cells and ultimately induces fermentation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]These cylinders will last for several seasons, and since the initial cost in Melbourne is only 12s. 6d., and they can be returned as empties by the brewers, a trial should certainly be given to this simple method of packing."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small](D. McAlpine, 'The Hop Industry in Victoria', in_ The Agricultural Journal of Victoria_, Vol. II, 1903-4)[/SIZE]


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## jlm (17/4/13)

I never drank enough carbine stout to give it an appraisal today but calling xxxx draught a great beer is overshooting the mark. I drank tons of it while unemployed or in early apprentice years (about $18 for a carton if you returned your previous 12 longnecks around that time). I'd still call it better than xxxx in hindsight but it was far from a great beer.


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## Feldon (11/9/13)

The verdict is in...

(from the _Brisbane Times_)

*Pint-sized brewer loses fight over labels*

In a David-and-Goliath battle over the ownership of a portfolio of heritage Australian beer labels, Goliath has won.

The Australian Trademarks Office has rejected a bid by craft brewer Thunder Road Brewery, based in Melbourne, to seize control of 59 beer brands owned by Carlton & United Breweries.

Earlier this year Thunder Road made an audacious bid to break open heritage trademarks held by CUB to a long list of beers that carry historic names but that have been in limited release or have not been commercially brewed since before World War II.

See: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/retail/pintsized-brewer--loses-fight-over-labels-20130911-2tkdu.html


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## barls (12/9/13)

There's a surprise. 
Can't fight the big boys


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## syl (12/9/13)

I resent them calling Thunder Road a craft brewer! It's a marketing company that also make shite beers! This was an aspiring goliath vs goliath battle or young Lion vs alpha.


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## GalBrew (12/9/13)

barls said:


> There's a surprise.
> Can't fight the big boys


That aside, I have no idea why a. Thunder Road thought they were entitled to someone else's IP (even if they don't make proper use of it). Or b. why Thunder Road thought that making some craft 'Carlton draught clone' and stuffing it in a ye olde branded bottle is a good way to run a brewery. What a shite concept. I have little respect for people who use other's success to coattail their way to the top.......or bottom as it may be.


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## bum (12/9/13)

Well, there's a very good reason that I can see: Australians largely like shitty, familiar beer. Making shitty, familiar beers is probably a decent enough business plan - execution has been very poor, however.


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## headfreak (12/9/13)

Yeah, not a bad plan from Thunder Road, since they've a pretty poor reputation in the craft world. May as well try and grab a slice of the boring beer market.
It's not like they've ever shown much interest in actually making good beer.


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## syl (12/9/13)

headfreak said:


> Yeah, not a bad plan from Thunder Road, since they've a pretty poor reputation in the craft world. May as well try and grab a slice of the boring beer market.
> It's not like they've ever shown much interest in actually making good beer.


2 head brewers down so far and they have never tried to make an interesting beer.

They had an APA (Mongomery's???) which was remotely decent, so they only put it on grolwer's from the bar there. Their beers suck.


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## punkin (13/9/13)

Sounds like might and right combined for a win.

Good thing too, if you own a car it's yours even on blocks in the garage.


I know a bloke who let a neighbour use some of his land to allow the neighbours cows access to the creek during a drought. The neighbour used the land for a year or two and then fenced it off.

When the owner asked why it was fenced off he was hit with a court notice to the effect that the neighbour was claiming title to the land. He had used it and made improvements to it (the fence :blink: ). When it got to court the neighbour actually won due to some old squatting law.

Needless to say they no longer speak.

But how do people justify themselves? h34r:


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