# What's The Most Crystal Malt You Have Used?



## RobB (2/10/08)

I generally use around 5% crystal malt in my beers, sometimes getting close to 10% for some styles (mostly british and american ales). Looking through the Weyermann catalogue, I see that some of their crystal malts are recommended for up to 40% of the total grain bill!

I can't help thinking that this would produce something which you would pour on ice-cream, not into a glass. However, I have to admit that the idea of 25% carared intrigues me, if only to see the colour.

What's the highest proportion of crystal malt which you have used, what was the FG and how was the end result?

Cheers,

Rob


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## SJW (2/10/08)

It aint much but I this was a Irish Red, went from 1.050 - 1.012

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4500.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 81.52 % 
750.00 gm Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) Grain 13.59 % 
250.00 gm Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 4.53 % 
20.00 gm Roasted Barley (Joe White) (1398.7 EBC) Grain 0.36 % 
25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.0 IBU 
25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.00 %] (20 min) Hops 9.1 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale


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## tim_mortensen (2/10/08)

Just kegged an English ale with total 20% crystal - 15% caramalt and 5% medium crystal, remainder of maris otter.

OG 1.056
FG 1.010

47 IBU Goldings.

Mashed at 69C

Wyeast 1028 london ale, fermented at 21C.

I was actually aiming for something with a bit more caramel / toffee / sweetness. My ESB yeast was infected, so resorted to the London Ale, which is more attenuative.

I've ended up with a beer that is quite bitter, with lots of the English malt character, without really any sweetness at all. I was afraid that it would be a cloying beer, with too much crystal sweetness and bitterness fighting for attention. However the high attenuation of the London ale saved the beer from that, chewing through the residual dextrins.

So totally different to what I aimed for, but has ended up being a very nice beer!

So the answer is, as always, it depends. You can get away with a high level of crystal as long as you get a good level of attenuation. I think if you used a lot of crystal with a low attenuative yeast, you would either end up with a cloying sweet beer if the bitterness is low, or just a really cloying beer if both sweetness and bitterness were high.

Off topic, I've been told that the sweetness of English ales such as Speckled Hen etc owe it to added sugar. So perhaps they pasteurise the beer first. Answer is probably here somewhere, but couldn't be bothered searching ATM.


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## ohitsbrad (2/10/08)

Hi Rob. I used about 30% in an attempt to brew something similar to Macs Sassy Red, which they say is only 60% base malt. I used 16% caramalt, 9% crystal malt, 4.5% dark crystal, and 1.5% chocolate. The FG was 1.014 (OG 1.047, 70% apparent attenuation). Mashed at 67deg. Probably didn't pitch enough yeast (Wyeast 1028). Fermented at 19deg. And only aerated by shaking. So I would expect to still be able to get the desired approx. 75% attenuation by changing those factors but keeping the same grain bill. Doesn't taste too sweet at all. In fact I actually perceived it to be drier than the real Sassy Red (FG 1.011 apparently).

A southern English brown ale I brewed might have had a higher percentage of crystal malt again.

For what its worth, a beer with 25% carared might just end up around 8 SRM, a light amber. I suppose you could just as easily add a small amount of some carafa special instead of any carared to get a reddish colour.

Brad


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## RobB (2/10/08)

Thanks for the quick and informative replies. Maybe big portions of crystal malts aren't as extreme as I first thought.

I'm going to have to go back to brewing 101 tonight. I knew that crystal malts contributed unfermentable sugars to the wort, but I also thought that _all _the sugars from crystal malts were unfermentable - hence my concern over high FG and cloying sweetness. The attenuations which you're all getting appear to contradict my assumption. I'll have to sit down with Palmer and Daniels tonight. After that, I might plan a rich, nourishing brew with heaps of crystal malt.

Thanks,

Rob


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## Weizguy (2/10/08)

I used 1.00 kg in a batch of Arrogant Bastard clone thingy, as I bought too much and decided to include it.
The percentage of the total malt was 21.1% by weight, but it was an extract recipe.
The F.G.as 1.018, down from 1.074. 74% attenuation.
Quite dry, and actually turned out a bit astringent, due to over-sparging of the grains (it helped out the BJCP training group as a good example of a problem/ faulty beer). BTW the beer was great, but challenging when young.

Another beer which uses a lot of caramel, and hence has a high f.g. and mid level alcohol is the historical Mumme (moo-muh). This beer was first brewed in 1492 and contains 60+% of caramel wheat and caramel barley.


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## stueywhytcross (2/10/08)

Malty Cultural said:


> I generally use around 5% crystal malt in my beers, sometimes getting close to 10% for some styles (mostly british and american ales). Looking through the Weyermann catalogue, I see that some of their crystal malts are recommended for up to 40% of the total grain bill!
> 
> I can't help thinking that this would produce something which you would pour on ice-cream, not into a glass. However, I have to admit that the idea of 25% carared intrigues me, if only to see the colour.
> 
> ...


Just put down this southern english brown
1.00 kgMunich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC)Grain 30.77 %
1.00 kgPale Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)Grain 30.77 %
0.30 kgCarahell (Weyermann) (25.6 EBC)Grain 9.23 %
0.30 kgCaramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC)Grain 9.23 %
0.25 kgCarafa I (Weyermann) (630.4 EBC)Grain 7.69 %
0.40 kgLight Brown Sugar (8.0 EBC)Sugar 12.31 %


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## RobB (2/10/08)

OK, I found where I went wrong. From Palmer: "......starches are converted to sugars by heat and moisture right inside the hull. As a result, they contain more complex sugars, _some _of which do not ferment...." and not _all_, as I previously thought.


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/10/08)

SJW said:


> It aint much but I this was a Irish Red, went from 1.050 - 1.012
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 4500.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 81.52 %
> ...




That is very close to the Red Ale that i make....

You can never have to much carared.....but you do need that bit of Roast Barley to balance it


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## Tim (4/10/08)

If you search through the forums for James Squire Amber Ale clones, Doc posted one which used 2.5kg of Caramunich II. Which is like 50% of that grain bill. I think it was his first all grain, and he placed with it in a comp.


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## SJW (4/10/08)

> That is very close to the Red Ale that i make....
> 
> You can never have to much carared.....but you do need that bit of Roast Barley to balance it



Well spotted mate, this is one u gave me the recipe for and it was a cracker. All credit to u for this one :super: Stu


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## SJW (4/10/08)

While we r talking crystal, Cara Wheat is a very strong crystal. I used 10% in an APA with the rest Pale Ale and only hopped to 32 IBU's and it is way to sweet. 1.052 - 1.014 so attenuation was not that good but I wont be using carawheat again in a hurry.

Steve


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