# 2000w Element In 45 Litres



## snagler (28/6/07)

Gday, I just ran a test on my recently constructed HLT useing a 2000 watt immersion element in 45 litres of water. I thought some of you might be interested in the figures I took down. I havent started AG just yet, Im still stuffing around testing etc but hope to do my first this Tuesday.

The HLT is a 50litre keg, uninsulated with the top open (no lid on as I had to dangle the heater in)
The abient temperature in the shed was 12 degrees.

4.30 - 13.4 degrees
4.45 - 21.5
5.00 - 30.0
5.15 - 38.2
5.30 - 46.8
5.45 - 53.4
6.00 - 59.9
6.15 - 66.2
6.30 - 72.0
6.45 - 75.0

As you can see it took a little over 2 hours to reach strike temperature. I intend to repeat the test with a lid on and perhaps insulating the HLT to see what improvements it brings. 
Mind you on brew day I will have a 3 ring burner blazeing under it as well. Just thought I might rig the element up to a timer to pre heat the water whilst Im wakeing up and haveing breakfast.


----------



## Pumpy (28/6/07)

Yep I ran out of gas the other day and a 2.4Kw immersion heater was only able to hold the 45litre kettle at 99C until the gas came , the wires in the junction box tend to get a bit hot over a long period.

Agree Snagler would be good to put on a timer to pre heat your HLT mash water .

Pumpy


----------



## lucas (28/6/07)

definitely wrap a camping mat around it and put a lid on it, it should make a big difference. I've only used my newly constructed keggle + 2400W kettle element HLT twice so far, the last time I used it I put it on a timer to come on 2 hours before I got up, when I went out to have a look it was boiling with condensation dripping off the lid and pooling on the floor


----------



## justsomeguy (28/6/07)

G'Day all,

I run a 1800 and 2400 watt heater elements in my converted keg boiler. I had to
use the 2400watt element to maintain a boil until I added a lid and a camping mat
to my setup. Now I get a nice stable rolling boil from just the 1800 watt element.
The 2400 watt element goes on when I want to get up to strike temp or once my
immersion chiller goes in to sanitise.

My camp mat has a layer of insulation foil glued to both sides of the mat to help
insulate it a little more. I 'spose it helps. Nerver tried it without the foil insulation
stuff.

Probably the simplest addition would be a lid for your boiler. I was surprised just
how much of a difference it makes. I have no way to control the heat from the elements
so use the lid to control the boil. I can easily get a boilover from just the 1800watt
element if the lid is on. Adjusting how much the lid is on controls the boil nicely.

gary


----------



## snagler (28/6/07)

Yes just as I thought, all that heat radiating out the top couldnt be good. Lucas how long do you reckon yours would take to get to 75 deg


----------



## lucas (28/6/07)

i dunno yet, i didnt time it the first time i used it as I was doing about three things at once, and the other time it was boiling when I woke, and I'd assume it had been doing so for at least a little while already since the shed was full of steam.


----------



## snagler (28/6/07)

Yep, Im definately going to repeat the test tomorrow with a lid and insulate the HLT, Ill post the results here tomorrow arvo to show the difference


----------



## SJW (28/6/07)

I got a 1750w element in a 50 litre insulated keg and I pump in water from my continuous hot water system at approx 50 deg C and I am at strike temp in exactly 1 hour.


----------



## Guest Lurker (28/6/07)

snagler said:


> I thought some of you might be interested in the figures I took down.



Nice to see some good data capture.

With a 2000 W element, and 45 l of water, the maximum temperature rise you could achieve, if 100% of that heat went into the water and stayed there, would be 9.5 deg per 15 mins. Thats the rate to aim at with perfect insulation.

At the start of your test, you were getting about 8 deg per 15 mins, and about 90% efficiency, which is pretty good. But once the temp got up to about 50 deg, the losses from the vessel started to increase and your efficiency dropped significantly. If you were to keep going towards boiling your efficency would get worse as evaporation would remove a lot of heat.

So, um, yeah, some insulation would be the go.


----------



## mika (28/6/07)

I got a similar setup, in this cold weather it seems to take forever !
Back in summer time without the insulation I got to strike temp in 45minutes.
Sounds like I need a lid ! <_<


----------



## snagler (28/6/07)

Jees your quick GL, I was thinking about running a graph but you have done the hard work for me. Thanks mate. :beer:


----------



## Tony (28/6/07)

hi mate.

I started with a 2400W element and no insulation and it took anout an hour and half to get to strike temp with a lid on.

I went to a 3600w element and insulated the HLT and not it takes 30 to 40min to go form tap to 75 deg c

much better.

lid and insulation will make a huge difference.

cheers


----------



## mika (28/6/07)

Onya GL...you must be bored !


----------



## Keifer (28/6/07)

I use a 50l HLT with a 2200w element, it takes a while to come up to temp, so i sometimes just half fill it, use that to strike with, then add more water to heat up while its mashing. Thats with a lid and no insulation in warm summer temps.


----------



## deckedoutdaz (28/6/07)

Hi to everyone here from way down south......I use both a 3.6kw and a 2.4kw hand held elements to get up to temp, (off 2 circuits) this takes about 25 mins, actually, i use both these elements a hell of a lot, not always together and sometimes to cook crayfish......the 3.6 i had specially made, and believe me, the extra cost was well worth it.....


----------



## mika (28/6/07)

Hey deckedoutdaz, 3.6kW has gotta be on a special circuit doesn't it ?
The standard outlet is only rated for 10amp, which I thought 3.6kW would well exceed.


----------



## Sammus (28/6/07)

mika_like: 3.6kW draws 15A, I think 15A circuits are not that rare - not sure though 

And whoever started the thread (cant remember ) insulation definately goes a long way. I use an element, I think its a 2.1kW (MHB? - cant remember ) and my tank is insulated with that aeroflex stuff all over. I havent mashed with the new setup yet, but I did a dry run, and I get 45L from tap temp (about 10C) to 85C in just over an hour...


----------



## deckedoutdaz (29/6/07)

Hi Sammus, as far as being an electrician, i make a great builder.....when i first used the 2 elements together i was always tripping out my circuit breaker, the reason being that the 2 elements would draw 25 amps (10+15) my circuit breaker was only rated at 16, i put in another circuit to my brewery dedicated for this large element and connected this to a 15 amp power point. Now getting my water up to temp and my brew off onto a boil happens in no-time, once up to boil i switch off the 10 amp element and run on the 15, this handles 60 litres no worries. I will post some photos of my set up in a while and include the 2 elements. Actually when i had the element made it was fitted with a 15 amp plug which can only be used in a special 15 amp powerpoint or special 15 amp lead, the difference is the earth tongue on the plug is much bigger than on your standard plug and will not fit into a standard 10 amp point., you see a lot of these on caravans.


----------



## kabooby (29/6/07)

P=V/I

P= Power in watts
V= Voltage
I= Current

Therefore 3600W draws 15A and 2400W draws 10A

And yes you should use a 15A circuit when using the 3.6KW element

"Electrical fundamentals 101"

Kabooby


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (29/6/07)

I've been fortunate with my house - all the power circuits have 20-Amp breakers on them, but I still put my two 2400W heaters on separate circuits to be nice to the other equipments.

I heat 36litres (give or take) from tap to strike temp in about 25-30mins or so. I insulate my 75litre boiler with thick cardboard packaging and a sleeping mat.

As an aside, I use 'heavy duty' 15Amp-rated extension cords for the heaters - you can see a real difference between these and normal 10Amp-rated cords.


----------



## bugwan (29/6/07)

A simple way to lower the waiting time for water to heat in the HLT is to add hot water in the first place.
I run a hose from the laundry hot water tap out to the shed, then I'm at strike temp (with a 2200W element) in about 15 minutes. My volume is only 25L though, so it's not exactly apples/oranges!


----------



## willanth (29/6/07)

I am using a 2400W element in 75+ liters of liquor in the HLT, as well as a warming element in the mash tun as well. At the moment I have to run one at a time, as I don't have a seperate circuit for brewing yet. All in good time, I suppose.

A lid and insulation makes quite a difference. I can't quite get it up to 100c due to the thermal mass of all of that, but it does pre-heat the sparge water nicely, as well as pre-heating the mash water.

Electric is nice if you wire it up to a temperature controller, it just requires a sturdy circuit and good wiring practices to be safe. 

Cheers,
Will


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (29/6/07)

LDBCWill said:


> I am using a 2400W element in 75+ liters of liquor in the HLT, as well as a warming element in the mash tun as well. At the moment I have to run one at a time, as I don't have a seperate circuit for brewing yet. All in good time, I suppose.
> 
> A lid and insulation makes quite a difference. I can't quite get it up to 100c due to the thermal mass of all of that, but it does pre-heat the sparge water nicely, as well as pre-heating the mash water.
> 
> ...



... and an earth leakage detection safety switch. If you don't have one, they are a lot cheaper than a slow taxi ride to the local cemetery for your family.


----------



## willanth (29/6/07)

That is very true, Spills. I'm used to calling them GFI's, for Ground Fault Interrupter but I suppose there's a different name for them here. You most certainly want to include safety switches in all of your brew wiring. When there's that much conductive liquid, and grid power, you've got to take care.

Cheers,
Will


----------



## snagler (29/6/07)

I just finished conducting my second test. This time with the keg insulated and a lid on. Still useing a 2000 watt element in 45 litres of water. Shed ambient temp same as first test - 12 degrees

First Test (no insulation or lid) 

4.30 - 13.4 degrees
4.45 - 21.5
5.00 - 30.0
5.15 - 38.2
5.30 - 46.8
5.45 - 53.4
6.00 - 59.9
6.15 - 66.2
6.30 - 72.0
6.45 - 75.0

Second Test (insulated with lid)

12.30 - 13.5 degrees
12.45 - 23.6
1.00 - 33.2
1.15 - 42.3
1.30 - 52.0
1.45 - 60.8
2.00 - 69.7
2.10 - 75.0

As the results show it took 35 minutes less to heat to 75 degrees in the second test. Im thinking I might insulate my kettle as well now.


----------



## Barramundi (29/6/07)

i used 2 2400 w elements in 25 litres mounted close to the bottom of the kettle and it took 20 minutes to get it from 20 degrees to 75 degrees Uninsulated and no lid .. not the same as your test but i think that mounting the element lower could speed things up ...


----------



## lucas (30/6/07)

I've got some figures from my setup, although they're all very round about. last night the hlt was put on the timer to start at 6am. it was pretty well full (so somewhere in the range of 45l). it was outside in the shed and temps dropped to 8.7 degrees (right now actually) so i'd say the water would have started at 9-10 degrees C. 7.10am and it was 68 degrees C after a through stir. 

so basically about 45L, raised about 58 degrees C in about an hour and 10 mins.


----------



## altstart (30/6/07)

:beer: 
I use a 120 ltr S/S HLT insulated with a lid. The lid was custom made to stop condensation forming on the shed roof and dripping back into the HLT. The HLT is fitted with a 2400 watt element controlled by a digital temp controller also a 1800 watt element that I can switch on manually. it takes about 6 hours to raise to strike temp 80 degrees C with just the 2400 watt element. I very rarely use the 1800 watt element.
Cheers Altstart


----------



## Maxt (30/6/07)

Takes me about 20mins to get 33L from mash temp to rolling boil with 2 2400 elements. If I turn one off though the boil dies off, so I have to leave them both on (12L+ evaporation over 90mins).
I am also going to insulate my 80L kettle so that I amy be able to get away with just one for the boil.


----------

