# Anyone Know What Starsan Tastes Like



## almopec (18/4/12)

Evening all, 

sorry for the strange title, but let me set the context:

I recently put down an extract IPA at Easter, used dry Nottingham yeast and have been keeping an eye on the gravity as it progressed, like I normally would. This particular brew day I sprayed starsan onto an already cleaned (using napisan then rinsed and stored clean) fermenter and tap and then, left it all to drain and dry out in the sun, before filling with hot wort.

My usual routine is to taste the beer in the tester tube to see how its going rather than waste some beer. So I tasted the wort to begin with and then Sunday this week and again tonight (gravity is dropping and almost done at 1.015 btw). 
When I crack the lid a little so I can take a sample from the tap, I cop a massive face full of beery-hoppy goodness, but when I take a sip after measuring it tastes kinda soapy, but not like regular washing up soap, which is why I'm wondering if anybody else has accidentally tasted starsan and beer together, when they haven't left things to dry for long enough. 
I must admit that the taste is getting less soapy as the days go by, but its a flavour I can't put my finger on. 
My hope is that I managed to trap starsan in the tap or fermenter somehow, which is why my beer tastes odd so far and its not an infection that will ruin my beer outright. And maybe, its just a soapy flavour that will dissipate with time. 
Also I cannot see any odd looking clumps, discolourations or colonies that would suggest that I have an bacterial (or otherwise) infection, but never having one before I'm not positive. 

Anyhow, I hope some of you are still reading and thanks for the help in advance.

Al


----------



## adniels3n (18/4/12)

Starsan does not need to be dried out like you describe. I shake some around in the bottle, tip it out, give it a flick, & fill from the fermenter straight away. Never had a taste issue with it.


----------



## manticle (18/4/12)

Starsan tastes sour. Squirt a bit of the dilute stuff in your mouth or dab a drop of fresh stuff (pipette, syringe or careful use of fingers) and see for yourself.


----------



## milob40 (18/4/12)

almopec said:


> Evening all,
> 
> sorry for the strange title, but let me set the context:
> 
> ...


could be nappysan causing the flavour?
are you pressurizing your keg when you put starsan in it?
the dip tube holds a far bit of nappy san and i always depress the outlet post to drop any nappysan from the dip tube after the keg is empty, i then place a litre of starsan, seal and pressurize then depress the outlet post to purge out the dip tube of any nappysan. when you empty the starsan, remember to depress the outlet post again to drain any residual liquid.
starsan can flavour your beer if not diluted properly . 1.5ml per litre is all you need for a norinse solution.
i swish starsan through my already cleaned kegs and they never dry properly but never had soapy flavours.
starsan on a wet filter however is bad, bad, bad.


----------



## kelbygreen (18/4/12)

yeah star san is on the opposite to soapy, Its a acid of sorts so its more like estringic then soap.

sarsan on a filter is bad??? 

I have had no trouble with it although I flick it a heap to get the bulk of the water out. I have never let starsan dry it gets dumped and filled or used ASAP


----------



## almopec (18/4/12)

Muddzy - what you describe is exactly what i do. except that i just leave it all inverted to drain and dry while going on with other things.

manticle & kelbygreen - yeh i guess the starsan would be acidic/vinegary. maybe i'll have a nip of starsan tomorrow and compare with what i'm tasting out of the fermenter, as its something i can't put my finger on. my hope is that the off flavour disappears as as I run more beer through the tap and all works out.

milob40 - it could b the napisan. but i usually rinse everything pretty well after soaking. plus i usually give things a quick rinse with water before the starsan too. 


i guess my next question is: do the symptoms i have sound like an infection (of some sort) that will totally ruin my beer. 

thanks again,

Al


----------



## iralosavic (18/4/12)

What method did you use for creating the IPA?

I've had sanitiser taste in beer before (not starsan though) and to my palate it does taste soapy. Perhaps the bitterness being expected and a known part of the flavour, the other ingredients may contribute soapy notes. I checked afflicted beer against simply tasting diluted sanitiser, smelt it at pre mixing dilutions and compared all aspects and could not fault mypalate.

Baring in mind that even leading brands like SS can be perceived in beer at certain ppm thresholds, you must pay particular attention to the accuracy of your dilution process.


----------



## Amber Fluid (19/4/12)

What was in the spray bottle before the Starsan?.... soapy water?


----------



## MaestroMatt (19/4/12)

Palmer references Soapy tastes in his book

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

Seems to reference trub being a factor. 

Do you throw all the liquid into your fermented or do you leave behind break materials etc? 

If you are drawing in excessive amounts of trub, it could possibly be contributing.


----------



## stux (19/4/12)

milob40 said:


> could be nappysan causing the flavour?
> are you pressurizing your keg when you put starsan in it?
> the dip tube holds a far bit of nappy san and i always depress the outlet post to drop any nappysan from the dip tube after the keg is empty, i then place a litre of starsan, seal and pressurize then depress the outlet post to purge out the dip tube of any nappysan. when you empty the starsan, remember to depress the outlet post again to drain any residual liquid.
> starsan can flavour your beer if not diluted properly . 1.5ml per litre is all you need for a norinse solution.
> ...



Starsan in soda water not so good either. And yes, soapy.


----------



## Ryan WABC (19/4/12)

manticle said:


> Starsan tastes sour. Squirt a bit of the dilute stuff in your mouth or dab a drop of fresh stuff (pipette, syringe or careful use of fingers) and see for yourself.



This. Had some concentrate on my finger on the weekend. Thinking it was liquid malt extract, I stuck the ol' finger in the mouth and HOLY SHIT! Very sour and acidic.


----------



## d3vour3r (19/4/12)

maybe u didnt rinse the napisan enough. when using that stufff rinse it a few times to make sure, and with hot water if u can manage it. star san is fine, i often fill fermenters and kegs that have heaps of starsan foam in them. i think i read somewhere that star san breaks down into a sort of yeast nutrient. i think the guy from the company that makes it said that. just dilute it properly.


----------



## Ryan WABC (19/4/12)

d3vour3r said:


> star san is fine, i often fill fermenters and kegs that have heaps of starsan foam in them. i think i read somewhere that star san breaks down into a sort of yeast nutrient. i think the guy from the company that makes it said that. just dilute it properly.



I've never been game to try that, but have read a few times that it's okay to do. I might test the theory on a cheap brew.


----------



## sim (19/4/12)

Ryan WABC said:


> This. Had some concentrate on my finger on the weekend. Thinking it was liquid malt extract, I stuck the ol' finger in the mouth and HOLY SHIT! Very sour and acidic.




whoa, carefull dude.


----------



## freezkat (19/4/12)

Never rinse starsan, it defeats the purpose of using it. Mixed properly it does have a mild metallic flavor. Don't fear the foam!!! Yes pour out standing puddles of sanitizer. You have a better chance of off flavor from an infection than mixing even 50ml of thinned Starsan to 23L of beer

30/2300 = 1.3% solution 

then lets say you mix in 50ml into a 23L batch

OMG Molarity lol ...decades I finally need to use it


----------



## DJR (19/4/12)

Ryan WABC said:


> I've never been game to try that, but have read a few times that it's okay to do. I might test the theory on a cheap brew.



Don't Fear the Foam


----------



## almopec (19/4/12)

Ok, so maybe I wont have that nip of starsan after all


----------



## stux (19/4/12)

d3vour3r said:


> i think i read somewhere that star san breaks down into a sort of yeast nutrient. i think the guy from the company that makes it said that. just dilute it properly.



Which is why its not very good to use with a keg you're going to fill with soda water 

the "yeast nutrients" aren't so good in your soda water, leave an oily slick on the surface, bubbles that lag to long in the glass, and a faint soapy taste.

These days I use iodophor with soda kegs... and I rinse it.

and by "soda kegs" I mean a keg I'm going to fill with soda water! for beer kegs, I use starsan as per normal


----------



## manticle (19/4/12)

Next question : why are you dedicating a possible beer keg to soda water?

You have no answer, it's a rhetorical question. Sort it out, quick smart.


----------



## [email protected] (19/4/12)

Stux said:


> Which is why its not very good to use with a keg you're going to fill with soda water
> 
> the "yeast nutrients" aren't so good in your soda water, leave an oily slick on the surface, bubbles that lag to long in the glass, and a faint soapy taste.
> 
> ...



This is interesting, i found a bottle of water today i had sitting in a box. The rain water had been filtered and boiled for a good 20mins. I wait till its not hot enough to warp the plastic and in she goes, the bottle being rinsed with starsan prior. 

So i think it might have been there for a couple of months and all through the water there were these translucent strands, i could shake it and they would remain intact, was really weird, the water looked clear otherwise, there was no smell, no gas.

Usually i will use glass bottles and do the same process, but rinse the starsan with boiling water just prior to filling completely. I have kept water like this for ages and the translucent strand thing has never happened so i can only assume it has something to do with the starsan?
I dont see what else it could be.


----------



## sim (19/4/12)

Beer4U said:


> I dont see what else it could be.



my guess is "Ropey" bacteria - Google it. As far as i can remember its a simbiotic relationship (kinda like the ginger beer plant) between yeast and bacteria. Can be found in beer h34r: and makes for a very full mouthfeel.


----------



## [email protected] (19/4/12)

sim said:


> my guess is "Ropey" bacteria - Google it. As far as i can remember its a simbiotic relationship (kinda like the ginger beer plant) between yeast and bacteria. Can be found in beer h34r: and makes for a very full mouthfeel.



Interesting. Nothing i can find on google about it growing in boiled water sealed in a bottle? Only other thing relating to ropey bacteria google found was while making sun tea, because its not boiled.

This comes up on BYO relating to beer.

Ropey beer is caused by two different kinds of bacteria. The aerobic, vinegar-forming Acetobacter are known to secrete slime that has such a nice sound to it! Ropiness from the Acetobacter species is only common in beer exposed to oxygen, like cask ale and beer left in beer taps. Your bottled beer does not have enough oxygen for Acetobacter to grow and form rope.

The other bacteria known to form rope in beer are the varieties viscosus and limosus of Pediococcus damnosus. Unlike other strains of Pediococcus, these guys do not produce diacetyl (buttery or butterscotch flavor). Pediococcus is a common spoilage organism in beer and grows best under anaerobic conditions like those found in a bottle. Like other beer-spoilage bacteria, Pediococcus is commonly found in the environment and is often carried into beer through yeast or other ingredients added after the boil.


----------



## stux (19/4/12)

manticle said:


> Next question : why are you dedicating a possible beer keg to soda water?
> 
> You have no answer, it's a rhetorical question. Sort it out, quick smart.



Deal I made with SWMBO to go from 2 taps to 5 

think it was a good deal


----------



## CONNOR BREWARE (19/4/12)

Stux said:


> Deal I made with SWMBO to go from 2 taps to 5
> 
> think it was a good deal


and so much cheaper than buying bottles of that stuff!


----------



## almopec (20/4/12)

hello again, 
thanks for all the replies and help with my problem, update time. 

I had another good taste last night of my beer and decided that the taste is not starsan, nor is my beer infected. The taste I am getting is a bitter flavour that I can now only put down to the combination of hops I used in my brew, which I must admit was a little expeimental as I was using some new hops for the first time. 

Doing a partial boil, and from memory the hop additions were: 20g of Bravo @ 45m, 20g each of Amarillo and Citra at 15m and 25g of Citra and cascade at flameout. I probably strained most of the trub out, but I think some slipped past as I was rushing a little. As a result of reading a few things, I think its just an odd tasting beer out of the fermenter, or somethings gone wrong. 

My plan and hope is that I'll transfer to a secondary, (fridge it for a bit to reduce sediment) and dry hop and make it tast better.

Any thoughts?

Al


----------



## stux (20/4/12)

Duke of Paddy said:


> and so much cheaper than buying bottles of that stuff!



good thing for stopping parties from getting too messy, also helps the tea totallers feel more included when they get to play with the taps too


----------



## freezkat (20/4/12)

manticle said:


> Next question : why are you dedicating a possible beer keg to soda water?
> 
> You have no answer, it's a rhetorical question. Sort it out, quick smart.



Greener and cheaper option than sodastream CO2... perhaps??

That's why I do it.


1.3%/50ml solution cut by another 2300ml gets you about a .00056%/2350ml solution... is that close to being right?

Hey Professor Manticle check me work please.


----------



## manticle (20/4/12)

freezkat said:


> 1.3%/50ml solution cut by another 2300ml gets you about a .00056%/2350ml solution... is that close to being right?
> 
> Hey Professor Manticle check me work please.



Maths is not my area of specialisation.


----------



## freezkat (20/4/12)

manticle said:


> Maths is not my area of specialisation.



it was easier than I thought ...add the beer and the water together...divide the amount of starsan in the solution by the total of the beer/water. So if it was 1.3% of 50ml.

.65ml of starsan divided by 2349.35ml = .0002766% Starsan by volume


----------

