# Priming Kegs With Sugar?



## chiller (7/8/04)

Is anyone on list doing keg priming by bulk sugar additions?

If so would you share your method and results.


Thanks


Steve.


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## dicko (7/8/04)

Hi Chiller,

I have primed kegs with sugar in the past.

What I have done is to rack beer from cc cube/ fermenter to keg on top of a sugar solution exactly the same as if you are bulk priming.

When the keg is full I apply CO2 at about 40 psi to the beer after purging the air.
The pressure is to seal the keg o'ring so that the beer can carbonate and to remove any air on top of the beer.

Leave the keg as you would a bottle, for a few weeks, then put the keg in the fridge, get it cold and apply serving pressure and there you have it.

When I was doing it I found that you tend to get sediment in the bottom of the keg and to stop this coming out when serving I fitted a piece of plastic hose to the end of the dip tube to stop drawing it.

Also it is important that the keg must seal and have no leaks.

If I was going to use this method permanently I woud make a metal "U" shaped piece for the tube or I would cut a bit off the end.

It works quite well and you really can't tell the difference when you are drinking it.

It does save a little CO2 and if you can overcome the sediment and put up with the waiting for it to self carbonate then it is a good way to go.

Like a lot of things in brewing, the choice is yours! 

Cheers


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## chiller (7/8/04)

Thanks Dicko,

Good detailed information.

I have amputated about 2 cms. off each of the dip tubes in the kegs I have so that should help.

With the latest increase in gas bottle rental my 1.5kg bottle from Goliath will be used for serving if I go the self carbonation road and I will dispense with the larger more expensive alternative..

Steve


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## Kai (7/8/04)

Not that it would be an issue for some of you mob, but do you reckon natural keg carbonation would allow the beer to keep longer?


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## dicko (7/8/04)

> but do you reckon natural keg carbonation would allow the beer to keep longer?



Kai,
I dont think it would make any difference.
Staling of beer is usually caused by HSA, contact with the air ( oxygen ), or similar, and after all CO2 is CO2, it wouldn't matter what method you used to carbonate the beer.
Just my observation,
Cheers,


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## Kai (7/8/04)

Well what I was thinking, dicko, was how beers like Coopers bottle-conditioned ales last longer than their filtered & carbonated counterparts. I wasn't sure if that could be applied to a kegging system, though.


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## glolite (8/8/04)

from my understanding the filtered and carbonated beers may also be pasterusied hence may last longer, but if you are talking about beers that are only filtered and carbonated then i will step back!


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## dicko (8/8/04)

My apologies Kai,
I was only thinking along the lines of craft/home brewed beer.
I wouldn't like even to guess what the commercial guys do to the beer in there kegs to ensure preservation.
Cheers


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## Linz (9/8/04)

why is this in meetings???


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## chiller (9/8/04)

Because it would appear I posted to the incorrect area.

Steve


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## Jovial_Monk (9/8/04)

Hmmmmm Skotrat primes his kegs and says it gives a fine carbonation, but the "first glass or two" are muddy with yeast.

Dicko, if you are priming your beer in keg why use CO2 to dispense? Seems to be defeating the purpose of doing the priming. Also, CO2 is toxic to yeast.

I don't bother, cold condition w or w/o dryhopping in a cube, then rack to keg and force carbonate. But then my real pride and joys, my big beers, are bottled and selfprimed


Jovial Monk


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## Jazman (9/8/04)

Hey chiller why dont see if u can find a place that sells decent fire extingers then see it your regs will fit then buy from them and get them to fill it with c02 be cheaper than hire and u could get a bigger bottle as a few brewrs on here do it like linz and justin from tassie


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## dicko (9/8/04)

Hi Jovial,
I only stated that I had tried it a few times, not that I prime kegs now by that method.
IMO it does seem to carbonate with smaller bubbles and a "tighter" head.
It would save a little bit of gas when you carbonate by priming with sugar and the little bit that you need for dispensing would make a gas bottle last quite a long time, however I cant be bothered waiting for the keg to naturally prime so I just gas 'em up the normal way.
I have a gas bottle last about twelve months and I am happy with that considering that us fellas in the country dont enjoy the luxury of just going down the road and getting another bottle.
I dont think Chiller drinks as many kegs as I do per month and as such, keg priming may just suit him and he says he has cut the dip tubes so sediment may not be a problem.
As I said in my first post "the choice is yours"

Cheers


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## dr_fuct (10/8/04)

Why cut the dip tube  

I gas at 44 psi for 2 days, back the reg off put a small bucket under the tap and still at 44 psi, open the tap & pull off about 1 to 1 1/2 pints which pulls most of the sediment (nearly all) off the bottom of the keg   

But i rack to my kegs using the dip tube  :unsure:


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## PostModern (10/8/04)

Linz said:


> why is this in meetings???


 Coz I've been too busy at work to move stuff around in here like I used to be able to


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## Murray (10/8/04)

I recall reading blind studies where experienced brewers couldn't pick the difference between natural carbonated (keg) beer and force-carbonated beer. I'd be interested in seeing a chemical reason why the dissolution of CO2 from solution would occur differently if carbonated to the same dissolved CO2 concentration by both methods. 

I'm not doubting people's word on it, I'd just like to know how it could happen.


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## Hoops (10/8/04)

<_< maybe it has more to do with armoa? Aroma plays a huge role in flavour and how we taste things. Maybe the yeast adds a slight aroma or taste that is missing in force carbonated beer??


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## dicko (10/8/04)

Murray,

Your observations are probably correct.
I recon that the "head" on all my beers gets a lot better if I leave it under a small amount of gas for a long period and I guess this is the same as carbonating by priming and leaving the beer to naturally carbonate.
In time I'm sure that Chiller will evaluate the pro's and con's of each method, including head condition and report to us all.

Cheers


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## Temple of Seth (19/1/05)

I've sugar-primed kegs several times back home. No worries. The first serving is cloudy, but this just gives you the chance to 'take one for the team' before the party starts (and save yourself the aftereffects of binging the next morning). I understand that bottle/keg conditioning can add some extra flavor stability, though I couldn't tell you why. It's possible that the yeast remove some bad chemicals or that the hulls absorb them before they make it to your tongue.


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## warrenlw63 (19/1/05)

Temple of Seth said:


> I've sugar-primed kegs several times back home. No worries. The first serving is cloudy, but this just gives you the chance to 'take one for the team' before the party starts (and save yourself the aftereffects of binging the next morning). I understand that bottle/keg conditioning can add some extra flavor stability, though I couldn't tell you why. It's possible that the yeast remove some bad chemicals or that the hulls absorb them before they make it to your tongue.


I've done both. Tend to sugar prime English Ales for no other reason than the fact that it seems traditional. Either that or if my serving fridges are too full for keg storage this allows me some way of storing them.

Purely my own observations (or vivid imagination :blink: ) but I think that the sugar primed kegs seem to throw a creamier head on the beer (if conditioned for a sufficient amount of time).

Seth you are right that the first pint or two is a bit cloudy usually knock these off before a big session. You never know the execess yeast and vitamin B might help counteract any effects of hangover. :lol:


I usually let me Cocker Spaniels share half a pint of the cloudy stuff between them as well. I know beer isn't exactly great for a dog's diet however they really love the stuff.  

Warren -


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## devo (9/11/05)

I thinking of trying this out due to making more beer than fridge space.

What quantityor measure of sugar/malt etc would I need for a 19lt corny keg? :blink:


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## delboy (9/11/05)

warren

i think you are spot on if beer is left to carbonate naturally then the bubbels are finer and hence a creamier headed bear and the head tends to lace the glass as well also the matures nicely .
also it is not gassed to the max like aussie pub beer.
i tend to have a philosophy why make great beers to forcecarbonate to match that of an average beer.

natural v artificial debate will rage for years and realy its either convenience v patience at the end of the day 

del 
go naturale better for the brain :blink:


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## Stickler (9/11/05)

Devo, it depends on what style of beer you've brewed as for an ale you might want a bit less carbonation than a lager but it all comes down to personal taste. Personally I go for 7g per litre but I'm sure others would have different opinions.


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## fifteenbeerslater (10/11/05)

Stickler said:


> Devo, it depends on what style of beer you've brewed as for an ale you might want a bit less carbonation than a lager but it all comes down to personal taste. Personally I go for 7g per litre but I'm sure others would have different opinions.
> [post="89426"][/post]​


I am in the sutuation as DEVO, I am going to try 7gr/lt.I assume i am i should put the sugar in the keg fill it and shake it a couple of times like you would with a bottle and leave it for say 4weeks? Is that right?


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## devo (10/11/05)

I guess I'm going to approach this keg as a bigger bottle with the priming and the shaking and the storage etc etc.


Thanks fellas, will give it a go.


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## BennyBrewster (12/12/05)

beer smith is telling me to use only 65gms in a keg to achieve 2.5.

does this sound right !?! you guys are talking 7gs a litre which turns out to be like 133gs.


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## bindi (12/12/05)

For keg priming I use 80g of DME in 300ml of boiling water, cool and add to the keg to condition,chill after a week or two gas and pour.
Drinking one I primed 2 weeks ago and chilled yesterday as I type, just right [for my taste].  :chug:


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## BennyBrewster (28/12/05)

I move my beers from the fermenter to a keg as a secondary and then I server from that keg.

Could I mix up some dex in a cup with water and pure it in the keg after secondary ferm is over to prime it ?


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## Ross (28/12/05)

BennyBrewster said:


> I move my beers from the fermenter to a keg as a secondary and then I server from that keg.
> 
> Could I mix up some dex in a cup with water and pure it in the keg after secondary ferm is over to prime it ?
> [post="99725"][/post]​



yes...


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## big d (28/12/05)

but being an impatient brewer gas is quicker.when i become re aquainted with my other 6 kegs i will have the luxury of priming and gasing kegs.

cheers
big d


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## bindi (21/5/06)

Bumped this up again <_<I found this topic of interest last year and just wanted to hear what you guys are doing now  I now keg condition all beers [except what I bottle  ] where only 6 months ago it was 50/50 forced Co2 and keg coditiong.
What are you using to condition your kegged beer and how much?


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## barls (21/5/06)

i recently did two kegs with 90 grams of dextrose but i havent had a chance to try ether as im away till mid june


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## ausdb (22/5/06)

Another question on priming kegs for natural carbonation

Its time to give the cask berather a work out and experiment with real ale now i have half decent esb to try it on. How many volumes of CO2 should you aim for in cask conditioned ale at about 10C?


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## Duff (23/5/06)

I only just read this in Designing Great Beers last weekend and am going off the top of my head, but 0.9 for a hand pumped was one of the figures mentioned. Maybe someone with the book handy could advise of the range.


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## Stuster (23/5/06)

"As a result of cask conditioning, the typical bitter will have a value of just 0.75 to 1.0 [volumes of CO2]."p.159, Designing Great Beers.

And make sure you serve it at a balmy 13-14 degrees. :chug: 

Woohoo, my 500th post.


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## bindi (23/5/06)

Stuster said:


> "As a result of cask conditioning, the typical bitter will have a value of just 0.75 to 1.0 [volumes of CO2]."p.159, Designing Great Beers.
> 
> And make sure you serve it at a balmy 13-14 degrees. :chug:
> 
> ...


Thanks found the page, I don't know about 13-14c but have have served stout at 10c and it was very nice :chug:


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## bindi (17/8/06)

bindi said:


> For keg priming I use 80g of DME in 300ml of boiling water, cool and add to the keg to condition,chill after a week or two gas and pour.
> Drinking one I primed 2 weeks ago and chilled yesterday as I type, just right [for my taste].  :chug:


 

Bumped this up again  I now prime all [99.9% of the time] my kegs [depends on style now not like in the past and kept it the same, well most times] ,now I use 95g of DME in just enough boiled water to disolve it ,then leave them the kegs for at least two weeks for AAA and APAs and the like.
How are others priming their kegs for most beers? Some use dex, others sugar, not me I have used DME for awhile now.  
I only force carb when I am in a hurry which is not often.


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## devo (17/8/06)

I'm planning on doing this with my stouts and APA's but I'm also wondering if it would also be good to try it with a Pilsner?


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## normell (17/8/06)

bindi said:


> bindi said:
> 
> 
> > For keg priming I use 80g of DME in 300ml of boiling water, cool and add to the keg to condition,chill after a week or two gas and pour.
> ...



So Bindi,
I take it that you still purge the air out of the keg when you fill.
Would there be any advantage to have gas connected to the keg at dispencing pressure as well, or not.


Normell


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## Fingerlickin_B (17/8/06)

normell said:


> a: I take it that you still purge the air out of the keg when you fill.
> 
> b: Would there be any advantage to have gas connected to the keg at dispensing pressure as well, or not.



a: I never bothered doing that when I primed kegs...just pretend it to be a giant bottle, fill with beer, sugar and fit lid. 

b: Only when actually dispensing, it will build pressure due to secondary/tertiary fermentation just like a bottle anyway, so gassing it before this phase has a chance to take place may lead to over-carbonation, or simply wasting your time as you wouldn't need to add sugar if gassing a cold keg at serving pressure for a few days :beer: 

PZ.


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## bindi (18/8/06)

So Bindi,
I take it that you still purge the air out of the keg when you fill.
Would there be any advantage to have gas connected to the keg at dispencing pressure as well, or not.


Normell
[/quote]


A better method is to purge the keg before you fill it, and as Fingerlinkin_B said : Just pretend it to be a giant bottle, fill with beer, sugar and fit lid. Only that the "sugar" I use is DME. 
And there is no advantage leaving the gas connected to the keg at dispencing pressure.


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## Uncle Fester (18/8/06)

Bindi/FLB...

Do you find that the extra sediment produced by the conditioning clouds the resultant beer?

I have found that after a couple of weeks cold conditioning, the biggest advantage for me is the crystal clear result from the keg after forced carbonation.

I keg condition my stouts, cause the black result doesnt show any redisue anyway.


Festa.


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## Fingerlickin_B (18/8/06)

Doesnt seem to matter for me, but the beer tastes better sooner when force carbing IMO. 

Mind you, all my dip tubes have been trimmed anyway, so maybe itd be a problem with standard length tubes?

PZ.


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## bindi (18/8/06)

Uncle Fester said:


> Bindi/FLB...
> 
> Do you find that the extra sediment produced by the conditioning clouds the resultant beer?
> 
> ...




Only a bit of sediment for the first few glasses and I don't mind  and my dog loves it  , it pours clear after that [except the Hefe] after keg conditioning they go into cold storage [1-2c] which holds 3 kegs untill there is space in chest freezer which holds 4 kegs servicing the three tap font, and I have not trimmed any of my dip tubes on any of my 9 kegs.  .


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## Fingerlickin_B (21/10/06)

It has been maybe a year now since I've regularly primed my kegs with sugar...yikes :blink: 

But...due to my new setup, which can hold only three kegs and the Co2 cylinder at one time (and has three taps), I've had to revert to this method, as I'm keen to keep as many taps operational at one time as possible. 

I've made many changes to my brewing methods since I last primed every keg and I'm keen to see if the switch between carbonation methods along the way may have also made the beer different  

First of the new primed kegs were filled today, results in a couple of weeks :chug: 

PZ.


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