# Head Retention - Wheat Vs Carapils



## sluggerdog (20/5/07)

Hey All,

Just wanted to ask around and see what others thought about using either wheat or carapils for head retention within lagers/pilsners.

I have always used carapils when I used a grain for head retention (a lot of the time I use nothing) however I used wheat for the first time in a german pilsner (100% B Saaz) and am quite happy with the results.

I always use 5% if use one of these grains.

What's Others thoughts?

I'm not really interested in people saying you don't need to use either, just from those who do use one or the other.

Cheers
SD


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## Mr Bond (20/5/07)

Out of curiosity ,did your efficiency alter or Was SG different with wheat from carapils?

I would expect a 5% carapils wort would have an SG with body from dextrins,where as wheat with a greater extraction efficiency and head from protiens would yield a higher SG and possibly lower FG.
Beers with wheat always seem thinner in the mouthfeel to me.
Oddly enough I've used a small %age of carapils in a wheat for body!


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## DJR (20/5/07)

I usually choose carapils where i want some body such as Pilsners, or when i'm using cane sugar as part of the bill to make up for the lack of body caused by sugar. Wheat i usually leave for the wheat styles really. The per kg price between Wey Carapils and JW Wheat, surprisingly (since we are one of the world's largest growers of wheat), is about the same when purchasing under a couple of kilos.


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## oldbugman (20/5/07)

DJR said:


> The per kg price between Wey Carapils and JW Wheat, surprisingly (since we are one of the world's largest growers of wheat), is about the same when purchasing under a couple of kilos.




I was once told by an old school aussie brewer that we have soo much wheat malt in this country that we should use a little in each brew, but as you suggest and as does the price lists, it isnt as cost effective as it should be.


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## wessmith (20/5/07)

Totally incorrect unfortunately. We produce tiny amounts of WHEAT MALT in Australia but ship loads of wheat of course. Maybe the old school brewer was confusing the two??

Wes




OldBugman said:


> I was once told by an old school aussie brewer that we have soo much wheat malt in this country that we should use a little in each brew, but as you suggest and as does the price lists, it isnt as cost effective as it should be.


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## tangent (20/5/07)

i don't like the sweetness of carapils and usually throw and handfull in for head retention only.
that 5kgs is gonna last me a while....


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## Whistlingjack (20/5/07)

I use just the Carapils in my Czech-style pilsners and the head retention is satisfactory.

Using wheat is a good alternative, but the associated protein haze may not be easy to control and you might be disappointed by the lack of body. Having said that, the Pilsner Urquell off the tap at the brewery is unfiltered and just a bit cloudy. (Like the way I dropped that reference in?... :lol: )

WJ


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## MHB (20/5/07)

There is a line from The Life of Brian that goes

_"You lucky, lucky bastard"_ 

Ok so it's O.T. but you're still a lucky bastard.

MHB


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## Tony M (21/5/07)

For the last couple of years, I've taken to throwing a handful of flour (<100gm.) into my brews and have been very pleased with the result. The last pilsner I made had a head so stiff that it sat about 8mm above the lip of the glass. There may be a suggestion of haze but my beers are not crystal clear at the best of times.


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## warrenlw63 (21/5/07)

If I feel like more head {snigger}. I just go to the Local Middle Eastern produce store and buy a kilo of fine Bourghul/Bulgar (pre-cooked, cracked wheat) and toss a couple hundred grams in the mash. Works as well as wheat malt and only costs around a dollar a kilo here. :beerbang: 

Warren -


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## The King of Spain (21/5/07)

I use about 500g of wheat in every brew, works a treat for me as I prefer a beer with a gravity aroound 1008 and generaly dryer.


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## matti (21/5/07)

5 % carapils for me.
Had the feed back a bit too sweet for someones liking.
Might try 3 % next time and chuck in a few g's of dextrins.


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## Mr Bond (21/5/07)

deaves said:


> I use about 500g of wheat in every brew, works a treat for me as I prefer a beer with a gravity aroound 1008 and generaly dryer.



What temp do you mash at deaves?


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## albrews (21/5/07)

Tony M said:


> For the last couple of years, I've taken to throwing a handful of flour (<100gm.) into my brews and have been very pleased with the result. The last pilsner I made had a head so stiff that it sat about 8mm above the lip of the glass. There may be a suggestion of haze but my beers are not crystal clear at the best of times.




hi,

is it plain flour (all purpose ) or self raising, and do you have a preference for a brand name.?

cheers, alan


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## Tony M (21/5/07)

albrews said:


> hi,
> 
> is it plain flour (all purpose ) or self raising, and do you have a preference for a brand name.?
> 
> cheers, alan


Its actually white bread flour. The breadmaker sits besides the brew machine. Bread flour has a higher protein content than plain stuff. Who knows if that helps. I suspect it might.


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## The King of Spain (22/5/07)

> What temp do you mash at deaves?



64C

Cheers


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## albrews (22/5/07)

Tony M said:


> Its actually white bread flour. The breadmaker sits besides the brew machine. Bread flour has a higher protein content than plain stuff. Who knows if that helps. I suspect it might.



hi tony,
thanks for your reply, and bread flour is plain flour to begin with, before the leavening (yeast)
is added. some gluten flour from the health food shop might help. i will give it a try using lauckes bread kits.

cheers, alan


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## sluggerdog (23/5/07)

After a week with the pils I made with wheat, I think wheat is a winner IMO.


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## Cortez The Killer (1/6/07)

I just started drinking a batch that has both in it and the head retention is just fine  

Cheers


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## AndrewQLD (1/6/07)

albrews said:


> hi tony,
> thanks for your reply, and bread flour is plain flour to begin with, before the leavening (yeast)
> is added. some gluten flour from the health food shop might help. i will give it a try using lauckes bread kits.
> 
> cheers, alan




Hi Alan,

As an ex baker I thought I should warn you that bread mixes ie. Lauke and the such also contain salt, sugar, preservatives and yeast improvers and some even contain milk solids. I have no idea if these would affect your brew in the tiny amounts you would use, but it might be safer to stick with Plain Flour.

cheers
Andrew


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