# Daisy Chaining Corny Kegs



## Tony (13/2/10)

Hi Folks. 

Im thinking of doing 40 liter batches, to fill 2 x corney kegs. My system is set up for 50 liter batches so brewing 19 liters in it is a PITA, and a waste of time and energy. 

I have a plan to fill them both, put the gas on one and run the beer out to the gas in on the second, and the beer out of the second to the tap.

I have noticed there is a small length of SS pipe under the gas in point on the keg. Im thinking of hooking a length of beer line to this so the beer doesnt fall from the top of the keg as the keg empties out.

Does anyone do this and how do you recomend i go about it?

cheers


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## fcmcg (13/2/10)

Not done it Tony , but can see your concept....
I would be thinking as you were draining from one keg...it'd be pulling from the other so i wouldn't think the beer would be falling that far...especially if your keg that your pouring from was full when you started...i may be wrong...the onlyother thing is they would both have to be carbed the same...for balance...i'm almost thinking your gas in would have to be on the second keg in series...but again the only thing i know about fluid mechanics is pouring beers from one keg !
Good luck with it though...
Cheers
Ferg


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## mxd (13/2/10)

I am a little confused sorry I just can't picture the setup, but your coming out of a fermenter under gravity trying to fill 2 kegs under pressure ?

wouldn't you pressurize the ferenter and the 2 keg be equal then start releasing the gas from the last keg ?


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## newguy (13/2/10)

Nothing wrong with your proposal until the first keg is empty and it's time to start dispensing from the 2nd alone. With a gas in line that extends to the bottom of the keg, every time you pull a pint your CO2 will be bubbling into your keg like a kid playing with his straw in his drink.


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## bigfridge (13/2/10)

Tony said:


> Hi Folks.
> 
> Im thinking of doing 40 liter batches, to fill 2 x corney kegs. My system is set up for 50 liter batches so brewing 19 liters in it is a PITA, and a waste of time and energy.
> 
> ...



Hi Tony,

This is exactly how commercial beer is served in pubs and clubs - so it may put you off the idea  

But the beer doesn't 'fall' as the keg closest to the tap will stay full while ever there is beer in the first keg. When the first keg is empty, there is only gas going over to the 2nd keg so it is no different to having the gas directly connected.

Personally I would just put one keg on at a time as it is the greatest feeling to get another keg 'out of stock' when the first one kicks.

HTH,
Dave


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## mxd (13/2/10)

oh, your not filling your kegs your drinking them.

To avoid the bubbling etc.. couldn't you run both beer outs into a joiner to the one tap, so gas to both then combine the beer outs to 1 line (might cause a pouring problem ?).


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## Tony (13/2/10)

Ahh yess true.... the 2ns keg will always be full so it will never drop.

And your right, the beer line will bubble away at the 2nd keg too.

thanks for the help folks


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## Pollux (13/2/10)

bigfridge said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> This is exactly how commercial beer is served in pubs and clubs - so it may put you off the idea




I can remember seeing banks of 14 kegs in some coolrooms over the years. When the back kegs blew dry, you'd simply put a new one at the front and shift the daisy chain down a bit.

If you do decide to do this, my only recommendation would be the hook it all up and then pull the relieve valve on the front keg so that you eliminate the empty headspace, therefore you won't need the bit of beer line as the gas tube will already be submerged.


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## andrewsydes (13/2/10)

Tony said:


> Hi Folks.
> 
> Im thinking of doing 40 liter batches, to fill 2 x corney kegs. My system is set up for 50 liter batches so brewing 19 liters in it is a PITA, and a waste of time and energy.
> 
> ...



Funny, i was just thinking about employing such a system this week for my low alcohol house saison that always seems to go faster than I anticipate...

I wouldn't worry about the beer falling from the short gas post. The whole system is under pressure, so it' not going to foam up or do anything to harm the beer by falling in an entirely co2 or beer environment.

I'm going to give it a try anyhow, probably in a few weeks when the next batch of saison is on tap. Let us know if it's a disaster...  

Andrew


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## Gout (13/2/10)

there is a slight risk that if one keg is infected then it would mix with the next keg, advantage however is it might average it out and be good.

However i like to know what keg i am up to - eg when one runs dry and then i know ahhhhh only one keg left i need to brew asap

sounds like an interesting idea tho


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## breaky (13/2/10)

Hi Tony

The main problem as I see it is that if you run a bit of hosing to the bottom of the serving keg , the sediment would get stirred up every time you poured a drink. If you just set it up to without a bit of tubing, the same would happen when you get near the bottom of the serving keg as the falling beer would stir everything up! The pubs get away with it because there IS no sediment in their beer! Better off just doing it the usually way IMO. Of course if you don't mind a cloudy beer , either way will work. 

cheers

Mark


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## Cocko (13/2/10)

breaky said:


> Hi Tony
> 
> The main problem as I see it is that if you run a bit of hosing to the bottom of the serving keg , the sediment would get stirred up every time you poured a drink. If you just set it up to without a bit of tubing, the same would happen when you get near the bottom of the serving keg as the falling beer would stir everything up! The pubs get away with it because there IS no sediment in their beer! Better off just doing it the usually way IMO. Of course if you don't mind a cloudy beer , either way will work.
> 
> ...



I may be wrong, but it is rare, that tony filters his beers and it would prevent the above IMO!

Filter.. B)


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## Pollux (13/2/10)

The beer will never drop if the first keg is purged of ANY headspace....

Lets say Tony hooks this up as such.


Gas-------Keg A---------Keg B-------Tap.

Now, assuming no headspace in Keg B this is what will happen when Tony opens the tap to pour a beer.

The gas that is holding the serving pressure in the system will be pushed into keg A, this will push some beer into Keg B, which will push some into the glass.


Now as the twin kegs start to drain eventually the end keg (A) will start to get low, then blow dry. This means the gas will effectively pass right through it and into the still full Keg B. At this point Tony could disconnect Keg A from the system and go refill it, connecting the gas directly to Keg B.


Only issue here might be a touch of sediment blowing through from Keg A to Keg B at the end of Keg A's life, but if Tony filters this is a non issue.


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## Tony (13/2/10)

yes Tony filters so no sediment 

I wont be hooking up the beer line in the second keg....... brain fart idea that one. Thats why i asked 

I will brew 40 liters of Roggen and give it a go 

cheers


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## breaky (13/2/10)

Pollux said:


> The beer will never drop if the first keg is purged of ANY headspace....
> 
> Lets say Tony hooks this up as such.
> 
> ...



yeah, that makes sense. you'd still have to carbonate both kegs separately before you set it up, just a PITA to do it really

Mark


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## Pollux (13/2/10)

No reason to have to carbonate separately, assuming no non-return valves between them they are effectively one giant keg, it would just take a while.


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## Tony (13/2/10)

breaky said:


> yeah, that makes sense. you'd still have to carbonate both kegs separately before you set it up, just a PITA to do it really
> 
> Mark



NA thats easy.

I multiple regs running off my gas bottle and 2 seperate lines running into my kegorator. One at serving pressure and one to use for high pressure carbonating.

In not a fan of the "ross" method  

I just hook gas from a common line up to each keg via a T piece and carb them as usuall, 250kpa for 48 hrs


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## bill_gill85 (13/2/10)

Pollux said:


> No reason to have to carbonate separately, assuming no non-return valves between them they are effectively one giant keg, it would just take a while.




I think the issue is that although the kegs are connected together like one keg, there is no Beer/CO2 interface in the keg closest to the tap, so whilst the kegs are at the same pressure, there would be no gas absorbtion. The only way that the keg closest to the tap would carbonate then, is through mixing of the beer in the two kegs.

I think that the daisy-chaining concept is excellent if you are brewing double batches.
If I were to do it I'd leave extra headspace in the keg closest to the tap. The kegs should have been purged prior to filling so I doubt that oxidation would be an issue for the beer "falling" from the gas diptube. The extra headspace will provide a small volume of CO2 that will be absorbed during carbonation. To keep an eye on how much beer is left, check the link line between the two kegs, if it's got beer in it you have more than 19L, if its got CO2 in it, you have less than 19L.

Just my 2c

Ben


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## breaky (13/2/10)

Tony said:


> NA thats easy.
> 
> I multiple regs running off my gas bottle and 2 seperate lines running into my kegorator. One at serving pressure and one to use for high pressure carbonating.
> 
> ...



Give it a go then and tell us how it goes. You could even try it pollux's way and just carb up keg A and see how long it takes to carb up keg B - the serving keg- if you've got time that is  

You do filter don't you, otherwise you'll get a dose of yeast when the first one runs out

Mark


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## brettprevans (13/2/10)

Big fridge and pollux r right. It's a commercial setup in pubs etc. No issues with it. Of course if there's infection ir quality control issues it affects the beer but only slightly as it essentially distributed across the bank/netwoork/daiseychain of kegs. Go for it Tony. In fact that what I should start doing for all my double batchs in kegs. No idea why I didn't think of it. good thinking. Finally the commercial beer. Sector comes up with something worthwhile.


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## Tony (13/2/10)

I usually make 54 liters and fill a full 50 liter keg.

I have 3 taps and wouldnt you believe it......... the 3rd 50 liter keg misses out of fitting in by the rib...... about 15mm. :angry: 

So..... i either do small 20 liter batches or make 40 liter batches and fill 2 kegs........ thats the plan.

I filter so there is no yeast, and i can carb the kegs individually to ensure they carb equally.


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## komodo (15/2/10)

Ive done it and it works. I carbed individually and then went joined them beer out to gas in. I didnt purge head space - didnt even think of it to be honest. But as it was for a piss up any way I really dont think it made a difference. The kegs blew dry by about 1am.


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## Lilo (15/2/10)

Tony

Have a big weekend planned end Feb with around 30 Kegs to push through. up to 4/5 of any 1 type of Brew. Planning on have 10 Kegs in a "Cool" Box and pushing the warmer kegs into them and then through a couple of Miracle boxes to serve, using this method.
This will stop us changing kegs around in the "Cool" Box as much as possible. So long as I bleed the headspace in the first keg in each line, I am thinking it should work. I will let you the results...



Cheers


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## MHB (15/2/10)

I'm so tempted to suggest making the kegs just a bit thinner, wont tho as it would involve a heavy hammer and a couple of hard blows to the bits sticking out.

Not the sort of thing sparkies do, more of a metal bashers approach.

M


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## Tony (15/2/10)

Hey..... i did my time with BHP!

EVERYTHING can be fixed with a hammer and/or silastic!


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