# Crap Cider



## Chookers (8/5/13)

I tried making Cider a while back and I have ended up with something closer to wine.. I only made 8 litres of the stuff.. anyway my question is:

Is there any way to turn this back into cider, brining down the alcohol content and increasing the sweetness and also enphasizing the apple flavour. I was thinking of adding some Preshafruit Juice Apple Juice... and I really wanted to carbonate in the bottle, I have 12 glass and 24 PET bottles.. I like the glass better but dont want a bottle bomb.

These wannabe Ciders were originally made from bottles of fresh apple juice. The cider/wine is nice and clear now, and in a very cold fridge.

Any ways would like to hear any ideas or advice on this issue..

Thanx


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/13)

Chookers said:


> I tried making Cider a while back and I have ended up with something closer to wine.. I only made 8 litres of the stuff.. anyway my question is:
> 
> Is there any way to turn this back into cider, brining down the alcohol content and increasing the sweetness and also enphasizing the apple flavour. I was thinking of adding some Preshafruit Juice Apple Juice... and I really wanted to carbonate in the bottle, I have 12 glass and 24 PET bottles.. I like the glass better but dont want a bottle bomb.
> 
> ...


Carbonate as normal. When you want to drink, mix it 50/50 with cold apple juice. IF you add more apple juice, it'll just get more alcoholic, not less; and remain as dry.

Apples are simple fruit sugars. Yeast loves simple sugars and eats it all up. Hence why it's dry (no residual sugars to make it sweeter, because anything that would be residual is eaten).

If you keg (which it appears you don't), mix 50/50 into the keg with apple juice and force carb.


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## Chookers (8/5/13)

Thanks LRG, I thought this might be the case.. sadly I havent got the equipment/funds or space to Keg.. I wish I did.. will adding juice to carbonated cider lower the carbonation..?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/13)

Chookers said:


> Thanks LRG, I thought this might be the case.. sadly I havent got the equipment/funds or space to Keg.. I wish I did.. will adding juice to carbonated cider lower the carbonation..?


Yep. But unless you can get some straight sparkling apple, lower carb may be your only option. Don't forget that cider tends to be fizzier (though doesn't have the head retention of beer) so this might suit your tastes at any rate.


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## Bribie G (8/5/13)

Yes it will, but you can always use Apple Isle sparkling apple juice if they still make the stuff.


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## jaypes (8/5/13)

You can ferment the apple juice as normal and halt the yeast drying out the cider completely by pasteurisation, I read about it a while back on HomeBrewTalk.

Although I have never done it, I didn't really like the idea of half boiling pressurised bottles - but apparently it can be done safely.

I don't drink cider but make it for my mates, they do the 60/40 cider (more like vinegar to me!) to fresh apple and blackcurrant juice

Ducks nuts apparently


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## jaypes (8/5/13)

you can also sweeten the cider with lactose as it is not fermentable by the yeast.

Tried that once

sweet vinegar

and if your lactose intolerant - well that a whole other story


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## Fossey (8/5/13)

I pasteurise my bottled ciders in my dishwasher all the time with great success. It gradually warms up the bottles rather than dunking into a hot pot. Set and forget, if they blow - and I've only had one go - its all contained and easily cleaned up.


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## Hyper.Intelligent.Fish (8/5/13)

Fossey said:


> I pasteurise my bottled ciders in my dishwasher all the time with great success. It gradually warms up the bottles rather than dunking into a hot pot. Set and forget, if they blow - and I've only had one go - its all contained and easily cleaned up.


This is genius. I must try it. 



Chookers said:


> I tried making Cider a while back and I have ended up with something closer to wine.. I only made 8 litres of the stuff.. anyway my question is:
> 
> Is there any way to turn this back into cider, brining down the alcohol content and increasing the sweetness and also enphasizing the apple flavour. I was thinking of adding some Preshafruit Juice Apple Juice... and I really wanted to carbonate in the bottle, I have 12 glass and 24 PET bottles.. I like the glass better but dont want a bottle bomb.
> 
> ...


You can add pasteurise the cider, then add more juice to sweeten the mix. It will dilute the cider, reducing the alcohol content, and without any further active yeast carbonation should not continue further. 

I'm by no means an expert, and I might have this backwards, but nonetheless I go on.

You could pour the whole lot back into a fermenter, add more sugar, and let it run. This will increase the alcohol content, but eventually you'll hit a point where the alcohol content is too much for the yeast to survive in, and fermentation stops. It won't be carbonated, but the still cider will be sweet due to the "undigested" sugars.


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## Pickaxe (8/5/13)

I'm interested, while on the topic, whether some people use malt (high mash temp) in their cider recipes, or spec grain, to get sweetness and some body behind the "winey" 'strongbow' kind of cider tastes? I guess, a (hopefully not so) stupid question would be whether people use hops? Or am I starting to talk about a whole different kettle here?


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## manticle (8/5/13)

Not stupid - google graff.

There's a very popular recipe on Homebrewtalk by brandon or brando (from memory) so google 'brand graf homebrewtalk' and see what that brings up.

Whoever said cider is fizzier needs a cider history lesson (and to taste some good stuff - just like beer there are different ciders and different fizz levels - from none to some).


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## manticle (8/5/13)

^ Brandon O

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/


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## Chookers (8/5/13)

Hmmm.. alot here to think about. Im going to try some of these out..

I have a stevia plant in my garden.. I wonder if I could use that somehow, to increase the sweetness, and carb one bottle.


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## Pickaxe (8/5/13)

Mate of mine used to use stevia in distilling practices.


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## Pickaxe (8/5/13)

Thanks Manticle, will google graff (+ beer) and ignore all the street art. Been wondering about Bulmers and whether it has a malt component.


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## Pickaxe (8/5/13)

Now I'm thinking about an apple and Galaxy (Passionfruit) cider with a lovely toffee spec malt backbone.


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## Deep End (8/5/13)

I think if you start adding grains or malts or too much else you aren't really making cider anymore are you? Dont get me wrong I like my apple and black currant cider but I think the pure apple cider tastes better in the long run, especially as they get some age on them. What starts out as a dry winey cider (probably due to yeast variety used) will gain some apple flavours and aromas back after a few months conditioning I have found in my brief experience with this beverage. 

Another alternative to sweetening the cider is just keep drinking it, eventually you'll like dry cider :chug:


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## Pickaxe (9/5/13)

Ha! Thanks deep end, just asked a similar question on another thread you were on. So, you're a cider man, through and through!


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## Deep End (9/5/13)

I am at the moment, I like buggering around with it, still love a beer or whatever but cider is my new favourite thing. Just something about it, never used to drink it till I started making it. I always thought it tasted like cheap wine, but now I know its just mainstream commercial lolly water that tastes like cheap wine LOL.


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## technobabble66 (9/5/13)

Chookers said:


> Hmmm.. alot here to think about. Im going to try some of these out..
> 
> I have a stevia plant in my garden.. I wonder if I could use that somehow, to increase the sweetness, and carb one bottle.


Hey Chookers,
FWIW, Brewraft use a small amount of finely powdered stevia in (one of) their Ginger Beer kits. Ginger beer has the same problem as cider i'm guessing - the brewing techniques we use to get carbonated GB in a bottle results in a v v dry drink. The stevia works moderately well - has that slightly artificial sweetener taste (if you're sensitive to those things), and i'd suggest about half the amount they recommend in the recipe. But it beats lactose - recent studies indicate most adults have a mild to moderate intolerance of lactose.

For GB, i could repeat the stevia at half strength if necessary.
But i'm keen to try the pasteurising thing (mentioned in comment #6 above) covered in Homebrewtalk somewhere. Just need a deep enough pot for your bottles. The guy who writes about it claims he's done it heaps of times with no explosion. OTOH, that dishwasher idea sounds great too!


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## Pickaxe (9/5/13)

@ Deep end - thats because a lot of companies flavour shit wine and sell it as Cider or Ginger Beer.

Adults aren't built to ingest lactose - thats what weening is about. Though i still don't mind locking on a tit or two when i get the chance...


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## Chookers (9/5/13)

Thanks to everyone for your responses, its amazing how much you all know and how fast these responses are comming in. This is truely an awesome forum.. :super:

so this pasteurization thing is on carbed bottles.. kill the yeast keep the fizz.. sounds crazy.

My favourite store bought cider at the moment is Dirty Granny.. Im working my way through each brand, but I stalled on that one because I liked it so much.. might stop my cider search.

I enjoy Ginger Beer, but my experience with them has always been too dry and too alcoholic, and the store bought are all lolly water and im not talking about the soft drink kind.

I suppose I could carb up one bottle and pasteurize it.. Do you use glass or PET?


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## JDW81 (9/5/13)

Pickaxe said:


> I guess, a (hopefully not so) stupid question would be whether people use hops? Or am I starting to talk about a whole different kettle here?


Not so stupid really.

Many ciders have a certain level of tannin that you can taste. This comes (as far as I know) from the apples traditionally used in cider (drink a proper UK cider and it is a very different beast to most of the commercial versions available). Cider apples are very different to table apples, and have a much lower level of sweetness. Cider can also be made with crab apples, which again taste very different to your good old granny smith. This fruit imparts a level of bitterness/astringency/tannin mouth feel (can't quite think of the right word, but I'm sure you catch my drift) that you generally can't achieve with store bought apple juice or a cider kit. 

To counter that there are some things you can add to try to emulate this character, and (flame suit on) hops are one of them. I've made cider with a small amount of cascade hops and it adds a very subtle bitterness that is reminiscent of what you might expect from a good UK cider. I usually add them to a small volume of water with some sugar and spices and boil for a bit. I've also heard of people using strong green tea to add tannins, but I've never tried this one yet. 


JD.


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## benen (9/5/13)

One of my mates got me into wanting to homebrew when I tried one of his ciders. No sweeteners added. Just a few modifications to a kit I believe and while it wasn't as crisp and clean as a Magners or Bulmers I really enjoyed it and didn't find it too dry to my taste at all. I'm just hoping my first batch comes out remotely similar after sitting in the bottles for a while. I've tried cheap cider, both apple and pear from the shop and they just taste like slightly alcoholic cordial to me. Criminal to even call it cider


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## Fossey (9/5/13)

Chookers said:


> Thanks to everyone for your responses, its amazing how much you all know and how fast these responses are comming in. This is truely an awesome forum.. :super:
> 
> so this pasteurization thing is on carbed bottles.. kill the yeast keep the fizz.. sounds crazy.
> 
> ...


Pasteurising is for carbonated sweet ciders. A dry cider natural ferments out, ie - the yeast have nothing left to eat. They are easily carbonated in the bottle the same way as a beer, without needing to pasteurise.

Try the range of ciders from Westons. More along the lines of what you'll be able to make at home. Old Rosie Scrumpy is a bit of a favourite for me and nothing like the usual range available.


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## Chookers (9/5/13)

So what exactly do I have to do to pasteurize a bottle of cider... I have read it before on these forums but Im now having trouble locating the exact thread where I read it.

I am going to carb two bottles one glass and one PET so I can monitor the pressure, Im thinking I will add some more Apple Juice in this experiment.. and possibly some sugar to get it to the right sg... I dont know what it is at the moment, but I will check it tomorrow.


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## Fossey (10/5/13)

I wait until the test bottle is really hard then put the batch into the dishwasher.
I choose the dishwasher setting with the hottest temp and run the cycle. My dishwasher claims its intensive cycle is 70 deg (gets up to about 40-50 when full of bottled cider) and runs for 2hrs 15 mins.
The lower the temp, the longer you have to run it for. 

Otherwise... carefully... 
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/


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## JDW81 (10/5/13)

Fossey said:


> (gets up to about 40-50 when full of bottled cider) and runs for 2hrs 15 mins.


I'd be very careful with only getting to those temps. While it will probably knock off most of the yeast running for that long, I'd be trying to get it a bit higher just to be on the safe side. I'd be aiming for a minimum of 70. The article you linked suggests 190 fahrenheit which ~87 celsius. If you can pasteurise at those temps you can be sure it has worked.

My 2c.

JD


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## Fossey (10/5/13)

JDW81 said:


> I'd be very careful with only getting to those temps. While it will probably knock off most of the yeast running for that long, I'd be trying to get it a bit higher just to be on the safe side. I'd be aiming for a minimum of 70. The article you linked suggests 190 fahrenheit which ~87 celsius. If you can pasteurise at those temps you can be sure it has worked.
> 
> My 2c.
> 
> JD


Agreed but I have over 150 x 500mL bottles of homebrew cider that were pasteurised this way - one batch stopped at about 1030 gravity, a real freight train fermentation too - that have been stopped.

Having said that, my temps were taken with a cheap digital thermometer with a wired probe going into the dishwasher.

Once finished, the bottles were still too hot to touch even half an hour or so after the cycle finished. Next time I'll open a bottle as the cycle finishes and test the temp of the cider inside.


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## MelbourneDave (10/5/13)

Fossey said:


> Next time I'll open a bottle as the cycle finishes and test the temp of the cider inside.


Be a little careful here. I'm not positive it will apply here but doesn't heat make pressure? I immediately thought of those pics you see of people's faces (or lack of) after they opened their cars radiator cap whilst still hot.


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## Deep End (11/5/13)

I hear you with that theory. However, pasturization temps are significantly lower than that of the coolant/water in your radiator. Radiators get up in the 200's under way more pressure than what would be in a bottle. 

I assume the same laws of physics apply to most things, but the variables are different here. Radiators are under the range of 10 to 20 lbs of pressure (from memory) depending on the model of car, and thats to keep it from boiling at waters normal boiling temp. Home brew would be lucky to get half of that pressure and my mind makes me think that the fact its CO2 providing the pressure, as opposed to heat and steam, that it would work a little differently. 

And again like I said the temps required for pasturization are far less than that in a radiator. Good point though. 

Thats just my thoughts on the topic anyway, I could well be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.


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## Fossey (11/5/13)

I promise to be careful - it is after all, for a good cause!!!


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## Airgead (11/5/13)

Deep End said:


> I hear you with that theory. However, pasturization temps are significantly lower than that of the coolant/water in your radiator. Radiators get up in the 200's under way more pressure than what would be in a bottle.
> 
> I assume the same laws of physics apply to most things, but the variables are different here. Radiators are under the range of 10 to 20 lbs of pressure (from memory) depending on the model of car, and thats to keep it from boiling at waters normal boiling temp. Home brew would be lucky to get half of that pressure and my mind makes me think that the fact its CO2 providing the pressure, as opposed to heat and steam, that it would work a little differently.
> 
> ...


Yeah... but radiators aren't made of glass and you don't usually pick them up and hold them near your face when hot and under pressure...

A dishwasher is not a pasturiser. Not even close. The temp inside might be a nominal 70 (which is too low for pasturisation anyway) but it won't be constant over the whole volume. There will be hot spots and cool spots. It won't reliably kill off all the yeast.

You can give it a go. I won't be though.

Cheers
Dave


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## Deep End (11/5/13)

I wasn't saying it was a good idea, I was just saying its not exactly the same as a radiator. I wont be pasturising anything with that method; a: I dont have the luxury of a dishwasher, and b: Luckily for me I like my cider the way nature makes it; nice and dry. I imagine the safest way would be to put your bottles in a large vessel of water and bring it up to 80, maintain that temp for x amount of time and then go from there. Either way it is in itself a concept I doubt I shall ever have to adopt so my face is safe for now.


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## Deep End (11/5/13)

Also, I'm not in the habit of holding anything hot and/or pressurised near my face or anything else I value, its a curse I must live with but I endure!

I'm sure its a curse many more suffer as well

And now I have to keep dribbling text, because the editor wont let me add any more to my previous post, and apparently one sentence creates a "your post is too short" error, so please for give the last two paragraphs of invariably useless dribble, I just need some more words to keep the matrix happy and willing to publish my thoughts.

That should do it I think!


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## Chookers (14/5/13)

I'll post updates when I've carbed and pasteurized a bottle or two.. see how it goes.


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## Greg.L (15/5/13)

70c is easily warm enough to pasteurize cider. You only need a few minutes at that temperature. The alcohol makes a big difference. Dishwashers do a good job.


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## Chookers (18/5/13)

gonna have to tip the lot out. I just tasted some and it tastes horrible, one just tastes like water with barely any hint of alcohol in it and a weak flavour which I cant name.. piss is the only word that comes to mind..

Im pretty dissapointed in this.. I sorry I couldnt fix it and share my results. Im just going to enjoy my store bought cider and forget about making my own.


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## Airgead (18/5/13)

Don't give up. Cider is easy. You just have to know what you are aiming for and take some deliberate steps to get there. Start with small batches and experiment.

Cider is a very broad thing... what sort of cider are you looking at making?

Cheers
Dave


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## Fossey (18/5/13)

Which store bought cider are you comparing yours to? There are so many more processes done commercially than a homebrewer would even consider. Some store boughts are called cider but are nothing more than sparkling cordial diluted with a stripped down fermented apple fluid loaded with preservatives.
Don't lose hope and try and find some traditional style ciders to compare to.
As long as you have sanitised gear, apple juice, yeast and a whole lot of patience - you really can't go wrong... Aging brings many rewards too.
And don't chuck it - bottle it, put it in a cupboard and forget about it for 6 months then try it...


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## Chookers (21/5/13)

Airgead and Fossey, I was trying to get something close to Dirty Granny.. not too dry but with some sweetness without being too sweet, with a defined apple flavour.

I tipped one out.. guess which one.

The other I will mix with juice or soda water.


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## Airgead (22/5/13)

Hummm.... OK... you have set yourself a challenge with that style. What sort of equipment do you have to play with? Kegs? Bottles? Can you force carb or will things have to be bottle conditioned?

Cheers
Dave


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## GalBrew (22/5/13)

Chookers said:


> Hmmm.. alot here to think about. Im going to try some of these out..
> 
> I have a stevia plant in my garden.. I wonder if I could use that somehow, to increase the sweetness, and carb one bottle.


I used Stevia to sweeten a pear and apple cider once. Resulted in a weird taste on the finish. I wouldn't use it again.


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## Chookers (22/5/13)

*Airgead*, I have limited gear.. I have 4 x 5L Glass Demijohns with swing lids.. and 15L plastic fermenter from a wine kit I bought. I also have 25Lt from coopers homebrew kit.. no way to force carb, so everything will be bottle conditioned.. and I have a few dozen plastic and glass bottles. I havent got a proper capper yet, only the hammering type for the crown seals. I have alot of hydrometers for some reason (I dont even know where they all came from). I got 15lt and 20lt stainless steel stock pots.

*GalBrew*, thanks for your input on the stevia, I wonder if it would work in beer.. like maybe the hops would hide that odd flavour.. or would you think that flavour would still come through..


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## GalBrew (22/5/13)

I am not a big fan of the flavour of stevia. I can't stand it in coffee and it came through quite strong in the cider. I guess it depends how sensitive to it you are. Try and use it in coffee or something and see it you can handle it. If it doesn't gross you out then there isn't much of a problem.


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## Airgead (22/5/13)

Stevia is nice raw, cut up and sprinkled through a salad to give a bit of interest to a bowl full of green stuff but I never usi it in cooking or brewing. yech.

Let me think about your cider Chookers. Doing what you want to do with the gear you have will need some cogitation (and beer) to come up with a solution.

Cheers
Dave


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## Airgead (24/5/13)

OK... I have given this some thought...

What you essentially want is something a bit sweeter than fully dry. Apples don't actually have much flavour beyond sweet and acid so when most people say "apple flavour" what they usually mean is "a bit sweet". Th eissue of course is that apples are all simple sugars so pretty much any yeast will leave them completely dry.

There are two things we can do - add some unfermentable sugar somehow or stop the yeast before it finishes.

We'll look at stopping the yeast first. To do that we need to either kill it or remove it. Killing can be done with pasturisation or some sort of chemical. Removal usually means sterile filtration. The issue with both methods is that usually you have to do it before the cider is carbed. You can't bottle condition then uncap, add some chemical and re-cap. Well I suppose you could but its a hell of a lot of work and adding the chemical to carbed cider will probably lose most of your cider to gushers. Likewise with filtration. You can't filter carbed cider and by the sounds of it you don't have the gear for that. You also don't have the gear the force carb still cider so for the moment lets' rule out yeast removal as an option.

That leaves us with unfermentable sugars. Fortunately there are plenty the we can choose from. Lactose is the most common one but no good if you have anyone lactose intolerant. Its also not very sweet so you do need to use quite a bit. Maltodextrin is also another option. Its only partially unfermentable so you will end up with stronger cider. We could add some complex sugars by adding malt but then you wind up with a graff not a cider and it will start to taste a bit beery. It will also make it stronger as you are again adding fermentables as well as unfermentables. If you don't mind stronger cider, there are other compex sugars we can add - brown sugar, rappidura, etc all of which will add flavour and some residual sweetness.

The last option for adding unfermentables is to add pear juice. Pears contain a sugar called sorbitol which is unfermentable. So replacing a percentage of your apple juice with pear will add some unfermentable sorbitol without making the cider stronger as you are replacing juice with juice rather than adding a sugar to juice. How much pear? Depends on the variety but you could start with 10% and experiment from there.

The last thing we can look at is yeast. All yeasts will leave a cider dry but some will produce esters along the way that give a "fruity" flavour which will increase the perception of sweetness in the cider. Using a fruity ale yeast may (and I say may because the nutrient and precursor chemical balance are completely different in juice compared to wort) increase perceived sweetness. There are also some wine yeasts that will enhance fruit flavours but their effect is much more subtle than a beer yeast although they are designed to work in a juice environment (different juice but still more similar than wort) so they may actually work better. Have a look in your local brewshop and see what they have. Unfortunately, most of the really interesting wine strains are only available in bulk kilo packs for professional use.

Ok... so a recipe.

Lets go for 90% apple juice and 10% pear. Ferment with either a good wine yeast that enhances fruit or an ale yeast. After fermentation, you can taste and add lactose to bump up the sweetness further if necessary. You will also probably want to add a little malic acid to bring things back into balance. Add a tiny bit, taste, add more. Stop a little short of where you think it needs to be as its really easy to overshoot.

Give something like that a go and start tweaking. It will take a while to dial in exactly what you like. You may need to add more pear or less pear or you don't like the esters from the yeast so need to try a different one. Each batch change one thing (only one thing so you know what made the difference) and start to bring it closer to what you are after. You can post your experiments and help others learn from what you are doing.

Cheers
Dave


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## NormCastles (30/5/13)

Hi all, my first cider has been in the fermenter for 11 days and is down from 1060 to 1002 so I assume it is about to bottom out (around 18deg). Recipe as follows:
Blackrock cider kit incl yeast
6L preservative free apple juice
Approx 3L (6kg) organic grannies (through the juicer whole)
1kg white sugar

Made up to 23L total with filtered water.

It's going to be around 8% which is a lot stronger than what I wanted but given what I put in I guess I shouldn't be surprised. 

Just picking up on Daves comments I am wondering about transferring to a secondary and adding a bit of pear juice and maybe some water to dilute and slightly sweeten prior to bottling. Is this a good idea or will I just end up with sweet alcoholic water? I was thinking 3L water and 1 or 2 of pear juice. 

It also has a hole lot of suspended solids (I am talking the first 4cm of the hydrometer tube) resulting from me not filtering the grannie juice. I have some finings labeled Fgh0005 I have never used finings before and the brew shop told the wife they were no good for cider (still sold them to her though). Is it a good idea to add finings to cider and if so should i chuck them in now to get some of the solids out in the primary or should I just wait?


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## Airgead (30/5/13)

You coul;d try pulling a little once its fermented then diluting that to whatever ratio you want. Taste the sample and see what its like. If its horrid then you will be drinking 8% cider. If its good, dilute the rest of the batch.

Pear will sweeten a bit but you already have a whole lot going on there. I'd let it ferment out, see where it ends (those kits sometimes have some non fermentables added anyway) then decide what to do.

Cheers
Dave

Edit - Finings.... wait till fermentation has stopped. When the yeast is active it will be churning things up anyway. It should all drop clear once fermentation stops even without finings.


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## Chookers (31/5/13)

Airgead said:


> OK... I have given this some thought...
> 
> What you essentially want is something a bit sweeter than fully dry. Apples don't actually have much flavour beyond sweet and acid so when most people say "apple flavour" what they usually mean is "a bit sweet". Th eissue of course is that apples are all simple sugars so pretty much any yeast will leave them completely dry.
> 
> ...


Wow.. Dave you are a legend. You should write a book.

This sounds pretty good, I have tinned pear juice.. do you recommend fresh or store bought? and I have many different yeasts, I even have a smack pack of some fruity ale yeast.

I have been trying to log in all week to see what you had and the site was down.. so glad its up again.

Thank you for all your great advice, will get my ingredients on the weekend and see what I can do.. might even post a few pics.


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## Airgead (31/5/13)

Books are too much work.. I'll stick to writing difinitivish guides for now.

Working on a guide to sweet cider at the moment. Will get it up over the weekend after I have juiced 50kg of apples for this year's batch.

On the pear juice, as long as it is preservative free you should be right. Juicing fresh pears will be a bunch of work without the right gear so shop bought would be easiest for you. I use fresh pears because I just chuck a few kilos of pears in with my apples.

Cheers
Dave


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## Fossey (31/5/13)

Chookers said:


> Wow.. Dave you are a legend. You should write a book.
> 
> This sounds pretty good, I have tinned pear juice.. do you recommend fresh or store bought? and I have many different yeasts, I even have a smack pack of some fruity ale yeast.
> 
> ...


This is a recipe I made using the canned pear juice and I love it... Was a bit pricey so I made a small batch. I have since slowly accumulated enough juice for a 23L brew which I hope to put down soon for a cold ferment with Nottingham yeast. 

I have posted this before in case you feel a little deja vu...

Here's my brew notes…

1 Dec 2012 - 1715 hrs
1 Gallon Batch

200g dark brown sugar
1 kg of Pear halves mashed in 
own juice
1 tsp yeast nutrient
Topped up with canned Pear 
juice (4.5 x 850mL cans used)
5g pectinol
EC-1118 yeast rehydrated

OG - 1065

7 Dec 2012
Stopped bubbling. Racked off fruit and lees. 

SG - 1010

Topped up with 850mL can pear juice, 5 g pectinol, 7g malic acid, 
1/2 tsp vanilla essence, 1 cup apple juice (apple juice used as no more pear on hand).

15 Dec 2012
Stopped bubbling again, left to age.

11 Feb 2013
Cold crashed

16 Feb 2013
1010 after crash
Backsweeten / prime 3/4 cup pear juice conc.
1024 after backsweeten / prime.

29 March 2013
First taste of final product, PASS!!!


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## Chookers (2/6/13)

Thanks Fossey, will give your recipe a try... once I get all my gear freed up.. sounds like a winner..

See how the 90% Apple : 10% Pear works out first.



I hope these next attempt are more successful than my first.

Thanks to all for your ideas and recipes.


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## Airgead (3/6/13)

I've always found 100% pear to be too sweet but then I like a dry cider. YMMV. Its a matter of finding a blend that you like.

Cheers
Dave


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## NormCastles (6/6/13)

Airgead said:


> You coul;d try pulling a little once its fermented then diluting that to whatever ratio you want. Taste the sample and see what its like. If its horrid then you will be drinking 8% cider. If its good, dilute the rest of the batch.
> 
> Pear will sweeten a bit but you already have a whole lot going on there. I'd let it ferment out, see where it ends (those kits sometimes have some non fermentables added anyway) then decide what to do.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave, I did as instructed and it cleared up very nicely.

Ended up adding 1L of pear juice (goulburn valley preservative free) which was around 5% of batch volume. Tasted good, especially considering its 8%, i will report back in a couple of weeks once bottle carbonated. Froma bit of experimentation i found the pear taste too prevalent with any more than 5% in the mix.


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## Chookers (11/6/13)

yes, I once made a 100% from the Goulburn valley tinned juice... I left it too long and it turned in to something closer to wine.. I wasn't happy with the flavour but bottled it none the less and shoved it under the house to forget about.. I haven't tried it in years. I seem to do this a lot make stuff the tastes horrendous..bottle it and forget about it.. but sometimes things get better, like some Barely Wine I made tasted gastly.. and I let that ferment until it stopped and then I bottled and forgot about it, the other day I opened a bottle and now it tastes quite good and somehow its become fizzy.. I wonder if this was malolactic fermentation as it had definitely stopped fermenting before I bottled it.. unfortunately I only made 4Lts of the stuff but threw some away so time worked its magic on 2 bottles only.. Why did I throw it away.

I hope the same miracle has happened on my pear wine.


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## Anthony.R.M (5/7/13)

Dave: those insights were incredible. Thank you for sharing them...


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