# Style Of The Week 19/7/06 Scottish Ale



## Stuster (19/7/06)

So this week it's off to the land of whisky and fried mars bars (sorry Stu). Scottish ales (not the stronger Scotch Ale) occupy three categories in the BJCP style guidelines, 9A, B and C, here.

As with English bitters and Belgian beers, the guidelines are a recent introduction, mainly by American brewers, and don't necessarily reflect any difference in brewing. A great article on Scottish ales (thanks to TDA for originally posting the link) can be found here.

So, what are your recipes for this/these styles? Grains of choice? Hops? Yeast choice is important for this style. Have you found any difference between the White Labs and Wyeast scottish yeasts? Have you made an extract/kit version of this style? Any hints from your experience?

Anyway, for what they are worth the BJCP guidelines are below.



> Notes
> All the Scottish Ale sub-categories (9A, 9B, 9C) share the same description. The Scottish ale sub-styles are differentiated mainly on gravity and alcoholic strength, although stronger versions will necessarily have slightly more intense flavors (and more hop bitterness to balance the increased malt). Entrants should select the appropriate category based on original gravity and alcohol level.
> 9A. Scottish Light 60/-
> 
> ...


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## bconnery (19/7/06)

Ah, takes me back to hours spent in various locals in Edinburgh. 
The Bow Bar, The Guildford Arms, The World's End...

A pint of 80/- in hand eyeing off the single malts if the night was cold...


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## Airgead (19/7/06)

Stuster said:


> So, what are your recipes for this/these styles? Grains of choice? Hops? Yeast choice is important for this style. Have you found any difference between the White Labs and Wyeast scottish yeasts? Have you made an extract/kit version of this style? Any hints from your experience?



Folks

I did a 70/- a few months ago as a headwetter brew to celebrate a mate's new baby. He's from Glasgow and pronounced it 'Och its great!" (only in a Glaswegan accent). I used the white labs scottish yeast (edenburugh ale). I don't have the recipe with me but IIRC it was mostly JW pale ale (about 4.5kg) with a good whack of crystal (200g or so) and a tiny amount of roast barley (50g) for colour. I used northern brewer for bittering and EKG and Fuggles for a bit of flavour. I'll dig out the recipe tonight and see if I've missed anything. I did a 120 minute boil instead of my usual 90 to try to get some extra kettle caramalisation. 

The only problem I found with it was that the roast barley flavour actually came through quite strongly and dominated a bit. The recipe was for black malt but on brew day I found that the bag of black malt thought I had in the freezer was roast barley. I realy should check this sort of thing befor ebrewday. 

Other than that it was good. Nice and malty. bit of caramel. Too bitter for style acording to the BJCP but spot on acording to my Glaswegan mate so I'm happy with that.

Cheers
Dave


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## Stuster (19/7/06)

Airgead said:


> I did a 120 minute boil instead of my usual 90 to try to get some extra kettle caramalisation.



Did you notice much difference from the longer boil?


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## warrenlw63 (19/7/06)

This one come up rather nicely. I used a lager yeast at slightly higher temps (Wy. 2278) to try and create a "clean" maltiness. Also caramelised in the kettle. Was a nice drop early on but probably attenuated too much over time in the keg and got a little too clean. Also I would replace the Powells with Marris Otter.  

Glesgay Ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

09-B Scottish and Irish Ale, Scottish Heavy 70

Min OG: 1.035 Max OG: 1.040
Min IBU: 10 Max IBU: 25
Min Clr: 23 Max Clr: 44 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.30
Anticipated OG: 1.035 Plato: 8.84
Anticipated EBC: 37.4
Anticipated IBU: 20.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 50 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.3 0.40 kg. Weyermann Smoked Germany 1.037 4
10.8 1.00 kg. Bourghul (Wholemeal) Australia 1.034 4
75.3 7.00 kg. Powells Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.037 4
6.5 0.60 kg. TF Crystal UK 1.034 194
2.2 0.20 kg. TF Amber Malt UK 1.033 133
1.1 0.10 kg. TF Roasted Barley UK 1.033 1640

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.00 g. Northdown Pellet 7.20 17.8 60 min.
20.00 g. Northdown Pellet 7.20 3.2 15 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 2278 Czech Pils

Notes:

Took 4 litres of the first runnings and boiled them down to about 2 litres. Has left a great caramelized finish. Needs to be done again if this beer is repeated.
This beer is drinking beautifully ATM. 5 Weeks after kegging the flavours are truly at their prime.
If I were to repeat this beer the only change I would make is to use Marris Otter.

Warren -


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## Airgead (19/7/06)

Stuster said:


> Airgead said:
> 
> 
> > I did a 120 minute boil instead of my usual 90 to try to get some extra kettle caramalisation.
> ...



not sure. I'd have to split a batch and do one half with a long boild and the other with trhe normal boil to be sure. Having said that there was a definite caramel aroma and flavour.

Next time I might just take a couple of litres and boil them right down in another pot to get the same effect without having to boil for longer (brew day is long enough already).

Cheers
Dave


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## wee stu (19/7/06)

For a couple of years into the all grain game I avoided the shilling styles. 
Partly frightened I might get unjustifiably stereotyped  partly feart that ah' woudnae dae it richt  

Now there is at least an annual Scottish in the repertoire. Some other guys round here (hello Batz, hello SteveSA) may brew them better then me, but I am getting better. My partner, a good aussie girl who spent 5 years with me in Scotland, tastes them, smiles and says "Belhaven". That's good enough for me, though I think she has forgotten the Caledonian!

For me some of the basics are good base malts to begin with, preferably Golden Promise, but Marris Otter failing that. Hopping is traditional, my preference is fuggles, but I will pay EKG. Higher temp mashes, pushing up to 70c for a nice thick, dextrinous wort. I go a longer boil to encourage caremalisation. With a 60/- I made about 2 litres more wort than required - drew off 4 litres and boiled that vigorously till it was reduced to 2 litres and returned the reduced, concentrated and caramelised wort to the main boil.

I reckon you don't need smoked malt. Both 1728 and White Labs Edinburgh ale yeast should have plenty of smoky character coming through, especially at their lower temp ranges. I would definitely go the Scottish yeasts for these styles - but they are very different beasts. My current 80/ used the white labs, and I still can't believe the comparatively restricted temp range it works best in (18-22c from memory), it died on me at 14c. 1278 from wyeast, as I have said before, is a workhorseof a yeast, will keep going down to 12c and chew through your fermenter if not careful. 

Ray Daniels chapter on Scottish Ales in Designing Great Beers is a very good reference. I would happily recommend it over Noonan's Scotch Ales in the Classic Beer Style series.

and, in case any one thought I might have forgotten, the 80/- is one of the 17 style specific classes in this year's ANAWBS competition. That is a class I look forward to sampling the winners from


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## locost (6/9/06)

Just hoping to revive this thread,

My understanding is that roast barley is traditional in Scottish ales but that most commercial brewers mnow avoid it, prefering black and choc malts instead.

Has anyone got a good recipe that relies on crytstal and choc malts to replicate the required colour?


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## AndrewQLD (6/9/06)

Nice post Stu, very informative. I will be sipping my ANAWBS belhaven 80/- entry for the first time tonight.
Not sure how close I came with the recipe, and not even having tasted a Scottish Ale before I probably won't be able to guess if I got it right either  
here's my recipe, and if you happen to try it at the comp please be gentle :lol: 

cheers
Andrew

Recipe: Belhaven 80/-
Brewer: Andrew Clark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Scottish Export 80/-
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.95 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 12.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Ale Malt Powells (2.3 SRM) Grain 87.7 % 
0.11 kg Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (60.0 SGrain 2.1 % 
0.07 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (660.0 SRM) Grain 1.4 % 
20.00 gm Fuggles [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
10.00 gm Fuggles [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 2.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 2.6 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
0.45 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 8.8 % 
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Batch Sparge light body
Total Grain Weight: 4.68 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 14.04 L of water at 74.8 C 67.0 C 60 min


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## kook (6/9/06)

Airgead said:


> Other than that it was good. Nice and malty. bit of caramel. Too bitter for style acording to the BJCP but spot on acording to my Glaswegan mate so I'm happy with that.



I probably shouldn't rock the boat, but I'm personally of the opinion that these styles don't exist. There is no evidence that these beers are brewed any different to bitters in England. A friend of mine in the UK has done a lot of research about this, and found a few facts regarding some of the "historical" reasons for BJCP including these styles:

- Scottish styles use less hops as hops were more expensive in Scotland

Hop plantations were located all around the UK (including Scotland), and Edinburgh was a major brewing centre, producing nearly as much as hopped pale ale as Burton at one point. He cannot find any facts to back this up apart from a line in the BJCP, which was presumably made-up.

- Scottish styles were separated into different styles marked by price

They were also seperated the same way in England at one point. It was not common for bars in England to advertise beers as a standard price. It was just that a few brewers in Scotland reverted back to using this for novelty reasons.

- Scottish styles are much maltier, and have smoked notes

With the expection of some speciality beers (and Scotch ale, a Belgian style), smoked malt is never added. Water is usually filtered too, so its highly unlikely that is the source. The grain and hop usage is almost identical to the bitter styles in the UK. Infact, in side-by-side tastings, it's quite obvious that some of the Scottish beers are hoppier than their English counterparts!


edit: Just realised, I should of just posted an article he wrote about it:

http://www.ratebeer.com/Beer-News/Article-593.htm


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## MAH (6/9/06)

Rock away Kook, I have the same feeling about Irish Red Ale.

Cheers
MAH


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## Stuster (6/9/06)

Great info, Kook, and thanks for posting that link. :super: 

I think you are right basically that these categories are a bit artificial. The difference between the bitter categories also seems like nonsense to me.


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## wee stu (6/9/06)

MAH said:


> Rock away Kook, I have the same feeling about Irish Red Ale.



And I would agree with you on that one MAH, the contemporary Irish Red Ale is an abomination, with no authentic brewing heritage to hang its misbegotten hat on.

Kook, you have more recent UK experience to call upon, but I have a deeper memory vault 

I suspect there is a melding of the style boundaries occuring now, and what is being promoted as the Scottish Ale style may represent a blip on the historical radar. It is not, however, simply a figment of the imagination of BJCP style nazis or enthusiastic, but misguided, American craft brewing " revivalists".

I am, for good or bad, a child of the Scotland of the 1960s, who weaned himself on various Scottish beers in the decades of the 70s, 80s and into the early 90s. This certainly was a period of huge rationalisation and centralisation in the Scottish brewing industry. With numerous "Scottish" brewers being absorbed into larger English concerns. Hence Lorimar and Clark an arm of Vaux, Dryboroughs of Watney, Tennant of Bass. 

Experientially (and, I will concede, perhaps a little nostalgically) my memories are of distinct differences between the typical Scottish Beer and that from South of the Border. The Scottish beers, in general, did have a more discernable malt content, greater body. significantly better head retention and, at their best, a distinctive nuttiness. Foremost amongst those flying the flag for this type of beer, in my selective memory, were the beers of MacLays, Belhaven and Lorimar and Clarke. The initial brews form Caledonian, following the management buyout of Lorimar and Clarke led by head brewer Russel Sharpe, certainly fitted that mould. In comparison, the standard English Bitter seemed a peely wally, insipid, pallid affair indeed. 

As to terminology, I would tend to agree. The shilling naming system is as much a figment of late Twentieth century marketing as it is of any continuous historical tradition. When I started to drink beer in Edinburgh it was as light, heavy, export or wee heavy. As the CAMRA inspired push for real ale moved North, so did the 60. 70, 80 and 90 shilling marques take over the hand pumps. It would, however, be pushing things to suggest that either of these naming systems were simple substitutes for the English terms of mild, bitter, best bitter or barley wine.

As to the historic production of more hoppy beers in the Scottish industry and the distinctive Scotch Ale style, one may have to consider, historically at least, the production of beers for various export markets. Edinburgh once brewed for the world, as well as itself. Many beers produced for the export market were often not readily available for the domestic market. In my drinking days this was certainly true of Scotch Ale production. Far from being simplistically a Belgian style, much strong Scotch ale production was being produced for the Belgian, French and latterly American markets. Strong Scotch ales under the brand names of McEwan's, Douglas, MacAndrews and Gordon's spread a Scottish brewing tradition globally. You would have been hard pressed to find them in Princes or Sauchihall Streets, however. The style was particulary popular in Belgium. Its imitation alone, does not make it a Belgian style. 

Peated malt belongs in whisky. Characteristic Scottish ale yeasts, such as wyeast 1728 and whitelabs 1028, can, and do, produce subtle smokey notes. 

Some of the most credentialed Scottish beers of recent times, such as the CAMRA award winners Deuchars IPA and Bitter and Twisted from Harviestoun are great beers, that owe as much to English or current global brewing traditions, as they do to any quintessentially Scottish ones. They are very much beers brewed in Scotland, rather than Scottish Ales by any narrow stylistic parameters. My reaction to bottled versions of both has been to find them very good beers, but not particulary Scottish  . 

I find it particularly sad, that the once highly distinctive and emblematic Scottish Brewer, Belhaven, now has as its leading domestic brand Belhaven Best - fermented at lager temperatures, served nitrogenated and cream flowed and even worst Extra Cold. Enough to make any nostalgic Scottish beer drinker shiver h34r: .

As a homebrewer, I do sometimes brew beers that emulate the Scottish beers I remember. That they happen to sit broadly in accordance with the 2004 BJCP style guidelines for Scottish 70/ or 80/ is perhaps, at best, a happy coincidence. They certainly taste different from the beers I brew and label as bitters.

Awrabest, stu.


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## goatherder (6/9/06)

Great post stu, thank you. obviously a topic close to your heart.


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## AndrewQLD (6/9/06)

Well said Stu, and I would agree that even in just the style guidelines Scottish ale and English ales are not even similar.

If you go by my latest, an 80/- it is nothing like any of my milds, bitters ect :blink: 

Mind you, as stated previously I have never tried a Scottish Ale before but the difference between my Bosun Best Bitter and my 80/- is very obvious.

Cheers
Andrew


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## mike_hillyer (6/9/06)

I certainly believe there would be a multitude of differences between heavy and bitter as there are differences in bitters from region to region. We are talking about a long and rich culture here which has been under pinned by brewing for a long time.


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## warrenlw63 (6/9/06)

Let's all celebrate with a Tennents Super. 1000's of deros could not be wrong. :lol: 

Warren -


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## wee stu (7/9/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Let's all celebrate with a Tennents Super. 1000's of deros could not be wrong. :lol:
> 
> Warren -



Did I forget to mention our long tradition of brewing, and abusing, lagers. h34r: ? 

Thankfully that one is not indigfenous (leastways I am not going to claim it), more a copy of Carlsberg Special Brew  

Ugly stuff, both of them.


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## warrenlw63 (7/9/06)

Wasn't trying to knock the great Scottish brewing tradition Stu, it's just pretty easy to see Tennents in that negative light... I can remember when I was in London you'd see one of these empty on the ground on virtually every street corner and sometimes the Tennents Stout cans. Sort similar here when you see empty woodstock bourbon and cola cans.  

Just seems to be a solid trend in Europe these headbanger lagers. The Dutch in particular have a huge penchant for producing the things. :blink: 

I've not tried any of them but suspect they'd be most foul indeed. 

BTW Stu. That was a great article.  

Warren -


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## wee stu (7/9/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Wasn't trying to knock the great Scottish brewing tradition Stu,



Why not, according to some, it doesn't exist :lol: 

Tennants, or at least their precursors, opened their first dedicated lager brewery in 1888. Not the first in the UK, but probably the first to be met with real success. Personally I feel it is a style the Scots have yet to master. 

I agree, the uber lagers are a blight on the social fabric. Hard to get off carpet fabric too, especially when they come bouncing back in a technicolour yawn


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## Batz (7/9/06)

wee stu said:


> [Why not, according to some, it doesn't exist :lol:
> 
> Tennants, or at least their precursors, opened their first dedicated lager brewery in 1888. Not the first in the UK, but probably the first to be met with real success. Personally I feel it is a style the Scots have yet to master.
> 
> I agree, the uber lagers are a blight on the social fabric. Hard to get off carpet fabric too, especially when they come bouncing back in a technicolour yawn





:super: 

Lover of what I call a Scottish 80/-

Batz


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## Stuster (7/9/06)

Growing up in Wales, the main beer I drank was Brains SA. On trips to Scotland I had numerous pints (mainly of heavy) and found it substantially different to the beer I was used to (and bloody enjoyable too I may add :chug: ). On trips to the Lake District I had several pints of Old Peculier and found myself lying in a ditch.  On trips to the south-east of England I found the beers hoppier and lighter in colour than those I was used to. Then at uni and living in the Midlands I found a range of local beers, with milds still popular (as in Wales) but also hoppier beers like Banks Bitter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are definitely regional differences between beers in Britain, and I'm sure these differences were much greater in the past, probably down in part to local loyalty to a particular brewery.

The classification of these beers that has happened so relatively recently can be useful in some ways, but IMO it doesn't reflect the enormous range of beers that were made across Britian very well. And if Scottish beers have a different category, why not Welsh ones too? :lol:


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## mike_hillyer (8/9/06)

I had a few good nights on the Brains in Cardiff. Beautiful beer in any man's language and definately different to other beers in other british regions.

The 7/9/06 West Australian had an article about Scotish beer and how they don't "burtonise" their water. 

I find the scotish heavy to have a good alcohol taste that enhances the beer. I find a similar alcohol effect in Cooper's Sparkling. (Let me stipulate Cooper's sparking and Heavy are not the same style, quiet different infact)


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## locost (8/9/06)

I think what this thread's beginning to show is how flawed the BJCP guidlines are at describing historical and contemporary commercial brewing practices. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that these guidlines are a far more accurate description of American homebrew practice, and the misconceptions underpinning said homebrew practice, than they are a description of what's happening in the commercial realm.


Inevitably there has been some drift in brewing practices north and south of the border and each has influenced the other. Today, Pale Ales and Bitter excert some influence on Scottish ale. Hell if I was a Scottish brewer, I'd consider "Bittering -up" (is that a recognised phrase?) my products to defend my home patch from Southern imports and perhaps carve out a niche in the English market too. In the past, it was Scottish practice that influenced the English, I seem to recall reading somewhere that fly sparging is infact a Scottish practice that was adopted by the English.

If you also consider Scotland's long history of Brewing Bitter Pale Ales in much the same way as Burton on Trent (and some say that the Scots have been exporting pale hoppy ales longer Brewers of Burton) and one begins to realize that as a description of Scottish bewing practice, the guidlines are way off beam.

I also think that some beer writers (Mr Jackson comes to mind) have excerted far too much influence over those guidlines too. In fact, if Mr Jackson's furtive immagination had lead him to conclude that Tennant's long history of lager brewing amounted to a "tradition" and that its products are distinct enough (well Tennants lager tastes distinct to me) to desrve the term "style", then we'd all be debating the paprameters of Scottish Lager by now!

My favourite is always reading an American writer's attempts to explain the origins of the term "Bitter". It's really funny as they trawl through adverts, labels, books and so on trying to determine when the term first came into use. Never occurs to them that the best way to ensure you get a hoppy pale ale in a pub is (and probaly always was) to ask the publican for a "bitter ale", and so the term "Bitter" was probably in popular usage way before the breweries picked up on it as a descriptor of style. Sorry but I don't care if Ray Daniels thinks the term "Bitter" is a post WWII invention, I know my Grandfather was ordering "Bitter" in the 1930's and I'll bet my great-grandfather was doing the same before that.

And don't start me on Irish red ale! As far as I can see, the style exists to serve one purpose alone. What else could you serve in one of those horrible Irish theme pubs to a twenty something who's never had a stout in his life!


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## tangent (8/9/06)

> I think what this thread's beginning to show is how flawed the BJCP guidlines are at describing historical and contemporary commercial brewing practices. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that these guidlines are a far more accurate description of American homebrew practice than they are a description of what's happening in the commerical realm.



Hear hear! Couldn't agree more Locost.


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## mike_hillyer (8/9/06)

Many traditional brew sites, including blighty, have a monastic influence.

No surprise there we know it is a devine hobby.

Also the hours of reflection are best past tweaking your latest brew recipe


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## Malnourished (9/9/06)

locost said:


> I seem to recall reading somewhere that fly sparging is infact a Scottish practice that was adopted by the English.


I'm pretty sure that was actually Guinness.


locost said:


> I also think that some beer writers (Mr Jackson comes to mind) have excerted far too much influence over those guidlines too. In fact, if Mr Jackson's furtive immagination had lead him to conclude that Tennant's long history of lager brewing amounted to a "tradition" and that its products are distinct enough (well Tennants lager tastes distinct to me) to desrve the term "style", then we'd all be debating the paprameters of Scottish Lager by now!


Jackson has such an influence because he started the idea of beer styles!


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## wee stu (9/9/06)

I find aspects of this conversation becoming a trifle bizarre. 

Methinks many people give the BJCP *far too much * credence in the "creation" of beer styles. Beer styles existed before the 1999 BJCP guidelines came out. And stylistic differences, broadly underpinned by historical and regional boundaries, existed well before American home brewers started to fill their mash tuns in earnest. 

You can rest assured that the beer drinkers of Scotland where not waiting for Mr Jackson, or the beer Nazis, to tell them their most common, public bar, bevvies were substantially different from their average Sassenach counterpart.

The apparent inference that there is no general Scottish style, on the basis that contemporary Scottish brewers brew beers *not * to that style, is a furphy also. I have already acknowledged that fine Scottish Brewers like Caledonian and Harviestoun (now actually owned by Caledonian) produce beers that are superb examples of non Scottish styles, and have reaped the rewards of significant CAMRA recognition accordingly. That they market these beers under terms such as India Pale Ale and Bitter is, I would suggest, telling.

That these, and other Scottish brewers, also produce beers described under the shilling naming system, or as Scottish ale, heavy, export etc marks a clear differentiation between a *stylistically * Scottish beer, and a beer brewed by a Scottish brewer borrowing from, or emulating, other traditions.

If I can be forgiven a little book learning  . 

Writing in 1837, in his _Scottish Ale Brewer and Practical Maltster_, W H Roberts identified some key factors that differentiated Scottish brewing practice then, and which led to different qualities in the finished brews. Foremost amongst those differences were significantly higher mash temps, extended fermentation at lower temperatures (suggestive of the use of yeast with different characters and behaviour), and longer, cooler maturation periods. The use of the fly sparge was also a common feature of Scottish brewing at this time, though not so South of the Border. Roberts acknowledged the growing influence of English brewing practice on the Scots scene, and the increasing experimentation with other styles.

Even a cursory glance at Ian Donnachies _A History of the Brewing Industry in Scotland _ will glean for the reader a sense of enterprising Scottish brewers consistently brewing beers for domestic and export markets. Experimentation with foreign styles, most notably lager, porter and IPA is a constant, as is the continued brewing of more domesticated Scottish ales.

At its most basic, a high quality bitter can be brewed from a relatively simple combination of pale ale and crystal malts, judiciously hopped. It is this relative simplicity and elegance that makes the English bitter style so frustrating for many a home brewer, there is little room for hiding faults. Check out the brewer provided information on the grists used for bitters in any CAMRA Real Ale Almanac . This holds true for the English style beers being produced by the Scottish brewers cited above. There is no yeast information given here, but I would suspect they have the same ready access to English Ale yeast as the home brewer now has.

If you look at the grain mix for the 70/, 80/ and Scottish ale styles, you will see a far lesser reliance on crystal malts, and an consistent incorporation of darker, black and roast grains. Add to this mix a different mashing regimen and the use of historically specific Scottish yeast, it is no surprise that a different and distinctive beer style emerges  .

Not fantasy. Not the invention of the BJCP. Go on, Save up, get your self to a bar like the Abbotsford in Edinburgh and sample a few pints. *Then * tell me that I am the one who is dreaming. 

If you can, that is.  

Rant over,

awrabest, stu


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## locost (11/9/06)

Stu

Nobody is questioning that Scottish beer is different to English beer, or that Scotland's inventive brewers have been associated with a number of distinctly "Un-Scottish" styles, although I do think Edinburgh's long association with IPA means that that particular style is as much a Scottish style as it is the invention of Burton on Trent.

What I do question is the BJCP's guidlines and thier over-simplified approach to the complex issue of classifying beer. If you read them on Scottish Ale, you're alomost given the impression that Roast Barley is a must have ingredient, when infact few contemporary Scottish Ales use that ingredient. For example, there's no Roast Barley in Cally 80/-. 


The most important thing to recall is that the guidlines are not the product of a serious act of scholarship designed render an accurate account of the history and differences between various categories of beer. Nodody got a Ph.D for developing them and nobody had to convince a set of referees that the guidlines were accurate.

What the guidlines are, always have been, and will always be is nothing more than a system of categorization designed to assist in the running and judging of homebrew competitions held in the United States of America. Does that mean they are a complete work of fiction? No! Does it mean they are vulnerable to inaccuracies, clearly yes!


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## wee stu (11/9/06)

locost said:


> Stu
> 
> Nobody is questioning that Scottish beer is different to English beer,






kook said:


> I probably shouldn't rock the boat, but I'm personally of the opinion that these styles don't exist. There is no evidence that these beers are brewed any different to bitters in England.



Maybe I misread Kook's provocative post  

As for your latest post, locost, I think we can, on the whole, just agree to agree, ok? :beer:


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## locost (12/9/06)

Agreed


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## DJR (10/5/07)

Just boiling this one up now. Using up some leftovers and it'll get dumped on a 1728 Scottish cake that will be ready to go in a day or two once it finishes up on the ISB big brew Belgian Strong (which tastes weird, but good with 1728!)

Steinmore Wee Heavy
OG 1.080 @ 82%, 35IBU, 16L

2.5kg JW Trad Ale
1kg Bairds MO
1kg JW Light Munich
200g JW Light Crystal
200g JW Dark Crystal
60g Bairds Peated Distillers Malt
50g Weyermann Carafa S III
30g Weyermann Choc Wheat

Mashed at 67C for 1 hour

Will get a dose of 30g Challenger 6.5% for 60m giving 35IBU

100min boil to get some caramelisation, i've taken some of the wort and boiled it down in a saucepan to get even more caramelisation.

Might even chuck a bit of french oak chip (no more than 10-15g, maybe even soaked in a bit of Laphroaig 10yo  ) into secondary as long as the Peated doesn't give too strong a flavour. 60g of Peated malt only should be fine, some strange Yank recipes i've seen call for 200g or more of the stuff....


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## Stuster (10/5/07)

Looks good, Ben. Finally using some of the peated malt.  Like the idea of all that caramelisation. Why not all MO though? I'd say drink the Laphroaig though.  

I've got some 1728 in the fridge so I'm definitely going to do one of these sometime over the winter. Maybe a slightly bigger Wee Heavy that'll be ready next winter. Be interested to see how this one turns out.

OT, but how does the ISB beer taste? Weird good or...? :unsure:


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## DJR (10/5/07)

You're probably right, i should just drink the Laphroaig. Perhaps the Jameson, or even worse, JD can get a run in the oak.  I think just adding the oak itself will be more than enough.

Aim for 1100 Stu, you know you want to. I didn't use all MO because i was using up the dregs, so i only had 1kg 

ISB big beer tastes good, the 1728 has added a weird phenolic smokiness, but it is very nice. Already down to 1012 from 1064 and holding steady, which is good because the hop/sweetness balance is bang on at the moment.


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## Doc (4/6/07)

Hey DJR,

How did your brew turn out ?
I had the Red Hill Scottish Ale at the weekend and it was very enjoyable. Brewing this weekend and thinking a nice Scottish Ale would sit perfectly for Winter.

Beers,
Doc


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## DJR (4/6/07)

Haven't quite cracked it yet, tasted pretty damned good when i bottled it though. Might pop a brew in the fridge tonight and see how it turned out.


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## Doc (4/6/07)

Thanks DJR. Sounds great. I just happen to have some peated malt here on hand too.

Doc


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## appius (21/1/13)

I am fairly new to brewing, been a member here for a few years, but have spent two years in the UK and find i'm longing for the tastes of the isle. I was fairly drawn to beers like McEwans Champion Ale from day one in London (my first trip to Tesco). Now, I currently only have the experience and equipment for a can brew. I've been looking at getting my hands on the Muntons Scottish Style Heavy Ale can. Are there any things i should know/be aware of?

Cheers


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