# Belgan Rasberry Beer



## Airgead (20/5/05)

Folks

After 12 years I have finally found a beer my wife will drink  !

Unfortunately it is a Belgan Rasberry beer at $7 a bottle  ...

To me it tasted like a slightly malty ale with a tiny amount of hop and a whole lot of rasberry. The label says 10% rasberry. The label also says matured in oak casks for 3 years but I suspect that may not be necessary.

It doesn't taste sour but the label says "Lambic aromatise, aux framboises". Anyone's French better than mine?

I am thinking a german ale (80% vienna malt with 20% wheat) with the minumum hop (maybe 5-10 IBU) and about 10% pureed rasberry. 

Any helpful hints folks?

Cheers
Dave

P.S.. any spelling mistakes are caused by the bottle of very nice red wine I had with dinner (plus some pre-dinner beer)...


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## deadly (20/5/05)

I used 2x 300g packet of frozen raspberries at cooling then added another 300g pack in the 2ndry - got a pink to light red colour and you could smell it more than taste it (i liked it more beer flavour than berry but not fruity enuff for the boss)


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## nonicman (20/5/05)

I guess you are referring to Belle-Vue Framboise, rasberry lambic beer. A lovely beer (Red Oak in Sydney also brew a Framboise). I've been thinking of doing a Wit beer with rasberries added partly to the boil at 5 minutes (to try and counter the lack of flavour Deadly mentioned above, please correct if this is a waste) and the remainder in the secondary or towards the end of the primary. The tartness of the lambic seems to balance the sweetness of the fruit in the Belle-Vue Framboise (edit: was expecting a sweet fruity beer but was supprised by the balance and fresh rasberry flavour without the sweetness more balance and maybe a slight tartness.), so maybe a nice tart Wit could do the trick. The thought of brewing a Lambic is scarier than brewing a Brunswick Mum, but there have been a few posts in this forum on lambics so it can be done.


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## GMK (20/5/05)

one of the guys in the BBC has made one of these - used over 2kg of raspberries - 1kg in the last 3mins of boil - plus the next 1kg in th esecondary.
We compared it to Bellevue Framboise and his was better.

Hope this helps


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## dickTed (20/5/05)

Airgead.

When you're bottling, prime some of your stubbies with (boiled?) raspberry cordial, and see if she likes it.

She might be flattered by the idea that you've made a brew 'specially for her. You know what they're like.

Make sure she doesn't find that cordial bottle though.


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## nonicman (20/5/05)

GMK said:


> one of the guys in the BBC has made one of these - used over 2kg of raspberries - 1kg in the last 3mins of boil - plus the next 1kg in th esecondary.
> We compared it to Bellevue Framboise and his was better.
> 
> Hope this helps
> [post="60020"][/post]​



GMK any more details? (BBC means British Broadcasting Corporation to me :unsure: )


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## deadly (21/5/05)

Yep if i was to do it again it would be at least 2kg to get the berry flavour,but wait till they are in season or get to know someone in resturants (half the price) Although the boss has taken to the chilli beer now the weather is cooler (habanero boiled)


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## nonicman (21/5/05)

And to think I spent most of child labour years picking rasberries and not making beer with them. 2 kg seems the go.

Edit: I don't eat jam after picking the fruit for jam, if the berries don't look presentable they go in the jam bin, plus the gollies and other extras . Country boys adding flavour


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## kook (21/5/05)

Simple method would be to brew a low-ibu belgian witbier, and add a kilo or two of fresh raspberries to secondary.

More fun method would be to read the pLambic mailing list archives and learn about brewing pseudo-lambic beers 

https://secure.neap.net/pipermail/plambic/

Also:

http://brewery.org/library/LmbicJL0696.html


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## Airgead (21/5/05)

Folks

Damn I love this forum. 8 replies overnight to a topic as obscure at this one...

I had a look at the lambic articles and I suspect that this is a wee bit out of my league just now (since i'm just setting up in all grain).

It looks like a belgan style wheat beer (40% wheat seems to be the usual amount for a lambic style the rest regular pale malt) with about 1kg rasberry in the boil and 1kg in the secondary seems to be the go. I am working on aiming for maybe 5 IBU of one of the German hops early in the boil so there is no flavour or aroma left in the finished beer *sigh*. I'll probably use the White Labs hefeweizen or the Belgan Wit. Possibly the wit as it is supposed to be a bit tarter which might match the lambic a bit better.

Since I wouldn't have the lambic tartness to balance the fruit, how would I go treating it like one of my fruit wines and adding some wine acid blend at the end to balance it out? Maybe upping the total acid to 6-7ppt tartaric?

Cheers
Dave


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## Darren (21/5/05)

Airgead said:


> Folks
> 
> Damn I love this forum. 8 replies overnight to a topic as obscure at this one...
> 
> ...


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## Airgead (22/5/05)

Darren said:


> NO not true. If you are just starting all-grain it won't be long before you make what you will call...."A belgian". Just part of the learning curve. I have a rule to drink all of what ever I make (good beer or bad beer). Certainly helps in not making the same mistake twice!


A good rule. I once forced myself to finish 20l of the vilest vegimite tasting stout. My last ever kit beer. After that one I switched to extract and specialty grain and developed my own recipies. i figured I couldn't do any worse...



> You probably want to aim for 15-20. 5 is certainly too low. This beer you are making will be at least 1 year before its best. The bitterness will mellow over that time period


Bit of background here. Its not that my wife doesn't like hops... she hates them. She really does not like bitter drinks. Even bitter lemon is too bitter for her. Having said that you are right 5 is probably too low. 15-20 with some aging would probably be right but I would like something she can drink sooner (even if it isn't as good). I might aim for 10 in the first batch and do a second batch at 15-20 to age while she drinks the first. Break her in gently so to speak...



> I agree. Go the wit for this style.


Done



> Since I wouldn't have the lambic tartness to balance the fruit, how would I go treating it like one of my fruit wines and adding some wine acid blend at the end to balance it out? Maybe upping the total acid to 6-7ppt tartaric?
> 
> You would probably want to taste trial that before bottling I suggest.


I'll handle it like a fruit wine - taste, adjust the acid to what tastes right then to the titrations and work out how much to adjust the whole batch. I might adjust some and leave the rest as is. See which she prefers.

Cheers
Dave


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## barls (26/3/06)

i hope you dont mind me dredging this back up but how did you go dave


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## Airgead (27/3/06)

barls said:


> i hope you dont mind me dredging this back up but how did you go dave
> [post="116565"][/post]​



barls

Not too bad. I made up a little 5l extract batch to test the concept. 60% coopers light extract, 40% morgan's wheat extract. OG was around 1.045 from memory. Bittered to 15IBU with hallertau. Fermented with the white labs wit yest.

I added 100g rasberries in the last 2 mins of the boil, another 200g in the secondary and another 100g a wek after that to really get the flavour up. Next time I wouldn't bother with the 200g in the boil. They did nothing.

It came out pretty drinkable. Not really a Bele Vue but not bad at all. The missus voted it "not bad.. but still not quite right". The main problem was that it wasn't sour enough to make up for the lack of bitterness.

I'm currently planning another test batch (Ag this time) using 60% ale malt, 20% wheat malt and 20% unmalted wheat to increase the tartness. Again fermenting with the white labs wit. 15 IBU of hallertau again. I will use a single addition of 75g/l rasberries in the secondary (fortunately I get them cheap from a frozen berry wholesaler). I'll probably make this a 10l as I'm not sure my system will scale down to 5l. 

I'll get this on in the next week or 2 (as soon as my scottish export clears the secondary).

If this still isn't quite right I'll try a sour mash with 10&% of the grains and see if that gets it sour enough. if not I may have to go the whole way and try a pseudo lambic...

Cheers
Dave


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## barls (27/3/06)

cheers mate keep us posted


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## Gout (27/3/06)

not sure if this helps as i havn't been reading all the above posts, I have however in my hand a rasp. ale i brew once a year. this year i did 60Lt, 30 with 1.5Kg of fruit, and 30 with ~2.75Kg of fruit. I add this (after i pressure cooked it to ensure it was bug free to the best i could) to the secondry, leave it a week and drink. I use a 50% wheat beer as my base before the fruit is added. The wheat adds to the sour flavour but the secondry fruit to me thins out of finish in the beer, adds a slight wine like alc flavour and its rather sour with the berrys in there.
My pref was the ~1kg per 20Lt beer method. The others have been very very berry (nice) but i wanted a subtle hint 

20Lt was gone in a night when about 3 people over, all love it, only one pint of APA.

next weekend i was drank out of stock once the word got around it was its annual release 

cheers
I use saaz to bitter only
and a clean ale yeast (us56)


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## Airgead (26/4/06)

barls said:


> cheers mate keep us posted
> [post="116642"][/post]​



OK.. Here's an update....

I put the beer on 3 weeks ago. Let it ferment out in the primary for a week and a half. I racked to a secondary and added the fruit last weekend and let it ferment on that until Sunday when I racked it off the fruit pulp into a second secondary (tertiary?) to clear.

We did a side by side tasting between this one and the Bele Vue. Even considering that this one was warm and flat (with lumps floating in it) its remarkably close. The aroma is almost spot on. Intense rasberry. The sourness/bitterness is probably as close as you can get without going for a sour mash or full on lambic. The main diference was colour and residual sweetness. Mine was an intense rasbery cordial red and quite dry (FG 1.007 from an OG of around 1.045) while the bele vue was brownish red and had a bit of residual sweetness. About the same rasberry flavour in both. Mine maybe a touch more. I may drop the rasberry to 60g/l next time and see how that goes. 

I think next time I'll add maybe 2-3% of a light crystal like a cara helles to add the colour and some resudual sweetness. Aparrt from that I think its pretty spot on.

The missus pronounced it "very nice" and is quite looking forward to trying the finished product. I'll bottle this weekend and let it condition for a week or two. I'll report back then.

Cheers 
Dave


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## andrewl (26/4/06)

I tried the Bellevue Frambois about 2 weekends ago... To my personal tastes i think that raspberry was just too intense, nut I would like to do a raspberry or cherry ale but only use a liitle fruit (more for aroma and a little flavour). 
But still, glad to hear of the result Airgead :beerbang: 

Cheers, 
Andrew


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## Airgead (27/4/06)

andrewl said:


> I tried the Bellevue Frambois about 2 weekends ago... To my personal tastes i think that raspberry was just too intense, nut I would like to do a raspberry or cherry ale but only use a liitle fruit (more for aroma and a little flavour).
> But still, glad to hear of the result Airgead :beerbang:
> 
> Cheers,
> ...



To be honest its way too much for my taste but the missus loves it. if I were doing it for me I'd cut it right back to about 20g/l to give just a suggestion of rasberry in the aroma and flavour plus a dash of colour. But, to misquote Frank'n'furter "I didn't make it for me!"

I did a sour cherry stout like that last winter which was pretty good. Black with a purple tint if you held it up to the light. A slight aroma and flavour of sour cherry that set off the roasted flavours of the stout very nicely. Excellent dessert beer that one.

Cheers
Dave


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## Stuster (27/4/06)

For all you fruit beer lovers, the Brewing Network had a show on Fruit beer this week. Jamil's show 4/24/06 :beer:


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## Airgead (28/4/06)

Stuster said:


> For all you fruit beer lovers, the Brewing Network had a show on Fruit beer this week. Jamil's show 4/24/06 :beer:
> [post="122930"][/post]​



Its in the queue on my MP3 player now...


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## petesbrew (28/4/06)

I've been wanting to try a raspberry brew as well.

Here's my first ever attempt at a recipe... feel free to criticise. 

Coopers Canadian Blonde (& included yeast - I'm still a beginner) 
1kg Bodybrew or (brew enhancer or whatever you like)
20g cascade hops 
700g raspberries in primary 
then 700g raspberries in secondary 

MY fingers are crossed.... I'll post my results


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## petesbrew (28/4/06)

Oh yeah, I'm trying it this weekend.
Think I'll cover the fermenter with a sheet or tarp, in case I have a mini-raspberry-Chernobyl-meltdown in the garage.


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## Ross (28/4/06)

petesbrew said:


> Oh yeah, I'm trying it this weekend.
> Think I'll cover the fermenter with a sheet or tarp, in case I have a mini-raspberry-Chernobyl-meltdown in the garage.
> [post="123150"][/post]​



No criticism, but I'd be adding all the fruit to secondary which will certainly avoid the above & give you more flavour for your $$$

Cheers Ross


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## petesbrew (1/5/06)

Did it yesterday. Recieved your advice too late Ross, and I agree with you, moneywis, berries would be better in the 2ndary (i put 800g in). 

Oh well. It tastes nice though. pale pink tint, with a fine raspberry flavour. As of last night the airlock was working overtime. The tarp is well placed... I hope.


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## Airgead (1/5/06)

petesbrew said:


> I've been wanting to try a raspberry brew as well.
> 
> Here's my first ever attempt at a recipe... feel free to criticise.
> 
> ...



I'd have to second the advice about adding to the secondary only. I've tried both and it gives a much better flavour in the secondary. in the primary the vigerous fermentation strips a lot of the aroma and flavour out.

I'm assuming this is a 20l batch so thats about 70g/l which is just under what I used last time. I find it overpowering but the missus loves it. I think there is a point where adding more fruit doesn't increase the flavour at all and I suspect 70g/l is past that point. I'll be trying 50-60 next time to see how that goes. I figure I can alwayse taste it after a week and add more if it needs it.

Cheers
Dave


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## petesbrew (8/5/06)

Well, it's been in the primary for a week now, and it's settled out at about 1018 (down from 1050), I'll leave it go for another week or so and hopefully it drops further.

Nice flavour but definitely needs more berries in the 2ndary. 500g should do. 
Thanks for the advice lads, I'll keep the results posted.


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## petesbrew (12/5/06)

Seems to have almost stopped now. The SG reading was 1014 last night . I'd be tempted to rack it this saturday, but as it's a busy mothers day weekend, and too much on, it'll give it a chance to maybe drop further.

Geez, this better be drinkable!
:unsure:


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## petesbrew (18/5/06)

Well I'm bottling the raspberry brew tonight. FG was 1014, threw in 500g extra berries in the 2ndary. Had a nice colour and taste last night.

I stuffed up and forgot to put that little thingy on the inside of the tap of the secondary barrel. It helps to stop the muck coming from the bottom. Seeing as I stopped most of the muck when i racked it, I reckon I should be right. 

Couldn't be bothered bulk-priming - the carb drops are the go.


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## petesbrew (22/5/06)

Bottled it on thursday night with the carb drops. Very bitsy with all the raspberry bits, so I'll be using a tea strainer when I pour them! Great colour when poured into a clear bottle!

If I ever do this one again, I'll just use strawberry/raspberry topping. Too much stuffing round.

Two weeks till drink time.


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## petesbrew (1/6/06)

Cracked the first one the other night, and was pleased with the results!
The raspberries gave more of a sour tone than sweet, but it was still quite nice.
The wife wasn't too impressed, but said it wasn't overly disgusting. It was better than a Gueze Framboise we tried in Belgium, so I'll take that as a compliment.

I'll be putting the case down for about 3 months to see how it turns out


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## petesbrew (9/6/06)

Final word, I brought in some longnecks to work for a trial on the girls and guys... the verdict was good. One guy reckoned he could do a big session on them. Everyone else disagreed, but the non-beer-liking girls gave it a thumbs up.
NOt sure if I'll do this one again. mAybe next time I'll just try raspberry topping. But it's good to have a success out of a stab-in-the-dark recipe!


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## petesbrew (14/6/06)

A pic of the Blonde Berry Tart Fuel for you all to drool over...

The glass was a five finger special from some Belgian pub, of course.


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## Airgead (14/6/06)

Looks good. Came out about the same colour as mine. Is it just the photo or has yours come out cloudy? I was expecting mine to be cloudy from the fruit pulp but it has come out crystal clear. I'm wondering whether I have just fluked it...

Cheers
Dave


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## petesbrew (14/6/06)

Reasonably cloudy,
Lets put it this way, it needed a tea strainer cos of the pulpy bits (only a few bits in each bottle, but who wants that crap in their glass?!?!
Maybe a hops sock for the berries will be the go next time... 
Still it was a good result for a first attempt.


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## barls (3/7/06)

ok guys im just about to do mine but im not sure of the recipe so here it is so far
1 wals wheat
1kg of liquid wheat malt
12g of pacific Hallertau
1.6kg of raspberries( 300 in the primary,the rest in the secondary)
and fermented with white labs Belgian ale. 
im not sure on the amount of raspberries i can adjust them as required, or the hops i also have some Sticklebract as well.
what do you all think


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## Airgead (4/7/06)

barls said:


> ok guys im just about to do mine but im not sure of the recipe so here it is so far
> 1 wals wheat
> 1kg of liquid wheat malt
> 12g of pacific Hallertau
> ...



Barls

That looks pretty good. 1.6kg of rasberries will give you a pretty intense flavour so you could back that off a bit if you wanted.

Which Belgian ale yeast are you using? I used the Belgian Wit (WLP400) rather than the belgian ale (550/570) as it produces more tartness and less of the heavy Belgian type flavours. 

Cheers
Dave


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## barls (4/7/06)

im using the 550 as its one that have already i might cut it back to 1.2 then


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## Kerrs Rd Brewery (4/7/06)

I just kegged my attempt at this raspberry number...

1 tin Canadian Blonde
1 kg Brew Booster
Saaz teabag into primary
1 kg raspberries in secondary
Safale yeast

The first taste note was a definite sour/tart sort of hit, but then the raspberries really came through straight after that. Really interesting flavour, I simply made it to try and impress the girls, and will more than likely stick with my more masculine un-pink coloured beers, but am happy with my results.

Would recommend no more than a kilo of raspberries though barls. Liquid yeast will really add something extra though, will definitely use one next time now that the experiment has been a success.


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## barls (4/7/06)

ok ill take that onboard but i think ill try about a kilo then i can adjust as needed in the secondary


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## Airgead (5/7/06)

barls said:


> im using the 550 as its one that have already i might cut it back to 1.2 then



Should come out pretty nice. I'd ferment it at the cooler end of the range if you can to keep the Belgian flavours under control. A rasberry abbey style would be a bit much I think (and much less popular with the chicks  ).

Cheers
Dave


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## barls (5/7/06)

ok it shouldnt be a problem for the temp at the moment my ale thats going at the moment is at 17-18 most of the day with no idea about at night. prepped 300g of raspberries today to add tomorrow to the rest of the mix after i mix it up.


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## barls (6/7/06)

ok i mixed it up but i changed the recipe again so here it is
1 wals wheat
1.5kg of liquid wheat malt
16g of pacific Hallertau
1kg of raspberries( 300 in the primary,the rest in the secondary)
and fermented with white labs Belgian ale wlp550.
its down stairs fermenting as we speak at room temp ie 18


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## petesbrew (7/7/06)

barls said:


> ok i mixed it up but i changed the recipe again so here it is
> 1 wals wheat
> 1.5kg of liquid wheat malt
> 16g of pacific Hallertau
> ...



All the best, Barls. It sounds pretty good! 
Let us know how it turns out (and your berry-bits filtering method!).


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## barls (24/7/06)

ok its been in the secondary now for a while, it has finished fermenting im just waiting for the Krausen to drop before i transfer it again this time in to a cube to be cced for a little while before bottling. it tastes and looks very similar to the frambrose by belview. it was at 1008 last time i measured it


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## barls (2/8/06)

ok now sitting in the fridge ccing god its a nice colour just got to figure out a way to reduce the berry bits


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## Adamt (2/8/06)

I put raspberries into the pilsener i laid down to CC a week or so ago:

I boiled a washed pair of stockings, drained it because the water became the same colour as the stockings, and reboiled it until the colour stopped leaching out. I fed a kilo of mildly thawed raspberries into one leg of the stocking, pushed that leg into the other (for a double cover), tied it up, and fed it into my jerry can. 

Currently it appears absolutely pipless/chunkless, but has turned a nice reddish colour and has a nice aroma. I'll post when I bottle it next week on it's raspberriness and apparent chunkiness.


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## petesbrew (3/8/06)

Adamt said:


> I put raspberries into the pilsener i laid down to CC a week or so ago:
> 
> I boiled a washed pair of stockings, drained it because the water became the same colour as the stockings, and reboiled it until the colour stopped leaching out. I fed a kilo of mildly thawed raspberries into one leg of the stocking, pushed that leg into the other (for a double cover), tied it up, and fed it into my jerry can.
> 
> Currently it appears absolutely pipless/chunkless, but has turned a nice reddish colour and has a nice aroma. I'll post when I bottle it next week on it's raspberriness and apparent chunkiness.



All the best for your raspberry-stocking pilsener!

At the moment the tea strainer's working fine, but I'll be doing the stocking method next time for sure.


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## Airgead (3/8/06)

petesbrew said:


> At the moment the tea strainer's working fine, but I'll be doing the stocking method next time for sure.



I found that just transfering from the secondary to another container (tertiary) and CCing that for a few days was enough to make all the rasberry bits settle out. Clear beer, no stockings required.

I'll be putting on a batch with my revised recipe in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Cheers
Dave


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## Adamt (5/8/06)

Just sampled a bit of my raspberry pilsener from my jerry can, a pale pink colour and even produced a touch of head .

Tasted like... well, a raspberry wine. Seems to be lacking any bit of sweetness (something I was after). I'm assuming the leftover yeast has eaten all the natural sugars in the raspberries.

Anyone has any ideas on how to boost the sweetness? It's been in the cube for nearly 2 weeks and I was intending to bottle on Wednesday but will postpone if need be.

Ta.


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## Airgead (7/8/06)

Adamt said:


> Just sampled a bit of my raspberry pilsener from my jerry can, a pale pink colour and even produced a touch of head .
> 
> Tasted like... well, a raspberry wine. Seems to be lacking any bit of sweetness (something I was after). I'm assuming the leftover yeast has eaten all the natural sugars in the raspberries.
> 
> ...



Adamt

My rasberry was pretty dry too. The batch I'll make in the next coule of weeks I am adding 5% or so of a ligh crystal malt to leave a bit of residual sweetness. I may even move the mash temp up a degree to get some more dextrins that way.

If you are doing an extract brew, steeping some crystal malt would be the way to go for the next batch. Don't know what you can do with the current one...


Cheers
Dave


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## Adamt (9/8/06)

Bottled it today; racked it from the jerry can and brought it to room temp to bulk prime.

I removed the stocking and squeezed the heck out of it and added the squeezings to the rest of the brew. Tasted it after I squeezed everything I could out and it was noticeably sweeter (not actually sweet by any means, but no cheek puckering : <_< ).

Added priming solution and bottled.

I'm praying they don't explode; they were pretty heady when i bottled :blink:


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## barls (2/11/06)

i tried mine the other day and its great. its not overpowering but is well balanced with no fruit chunks and will be used in the small swap for christmas


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## barls (5/11/06)

here is a pic of it in a glass sorry its taken so long to post


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## Airgead (6/11/06)

barls said:


> here is a pic of it in a glass sorry its taken so long to post



Looks pretty good. I bottled by latest batch yesterday. It was tasting pretty good out of the secondary. I'll post a picture & recipe in a week or 2 once it has carbonated.

Less rasberry flavour than the last batch. I used diferent rasberries this time and they may not have had as much flavour.

Cheers
Dave


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## PostModern (6/11/06)

petesbrew said:


> mAybe next time I'll just try raspberry topping.



Cascade Raspberry syrup/cordial is the saviour of the foul hop ale in my sig atm.


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## barls (13/11/06)

it was that good that im going to have to do it again as i only have the bottles left for the swap thank god i put them away


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## hupnupnee (13/11/06)

Adamt said:


> Just sampled a bit of my raspberry pilsener from my jerry can, a pale pink colour and even produced a touch of head .
> 
> Tasted like... well, a raspberry wine. Seems to be lacking any bit of sweetness (something I was after). I'm assuming the leftover yeast has eaten all the natural sugars in the raspberries.
> 
> ...



Adamt,
Sounds like an intruiging (sp) brew. Something I'd like to give a go to in the not to distant future. 

Just a thought on the sweetness. What about adding some Lactose, as in sweet stouts. OR you could do what wine makers do and use some metabisulphate to knock the yeast on the head before adding the fruit. Carbonation is a problem if you are a bottler but shouldn't be a prob if you keg.

my 2c

Floculator

Tim


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