# Basic Apple/pear & Pomegranate Cider



## brettprevans (11/5/09)

ok so as the thread says im making a basic *Apple/Pear & Pomegranate Cider* Got the idea from the Simplest Cider Thread 
so recipe is

24L apple/Pear juice (any old brand. I used coles brand)
Craftbrewer Belgian (T58) yeast
600ml of Pomegranate syrup
1 vanilla bean

now I was going to use S04 yeast but suprisingly I didnt have any. so I decided a beglian yeast would so.
made a starter (so rehrdrate, thenadd 500ml juice and let it ferment out etc etc). 
SG of juice is about 1.048 so its ideal.

picy of starter - huge kraussen




Now tonight once I pour off all the fermented cider from the cider (and sample it the pour off!) I will pitch yeast into the 24L of juice.
leave to ferment and clear out for 6-8weeks. I might rack once during that time. after its fermented out, Ill crash chill to kill off any remaining yeast then add in the Pomegranate syrup slowly and taste as I go. The Pomegranate serves 2 purposes, to back sweeten the cider, and to provide a nice taste for the ladies. I'll also split open the vanilla bean and chuck that in there for a couple weeks also.

expected ~SG 1048
expected FG ~1010 (as its not a cider yeast)
~5.6%. 

I might throw a bit of dex in there if too sweet to dry it out little and boost the % alc.

will see and post back results.

Oh yeah I almost forgot - once fermented Im going to take 5 litres and bottles with mulberry molasses I found at a middle eastern bakery and see how that turns out. YUM


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## Supra-Jim (11/5/09)

Sounds delicious CM2. Belgian yeast will provide some interesting aspects to it. 

Cheers SJ


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## brettprevans (13/5/09)

well i pitched yeast last night. i dont remember T58 being so bready in flavour and aroma (I sampled some of the propoagating liquid ie cider). smelt more like whitebread yeast. anywho pitched into 24L of apple/pear juice and it was fermenting nicely after a couple of hours. I'll have to hit it with the heating belt tonight to keep it above 16C. I'll raise the heat up to 22C for a day or two mid ferment to get some esters/flavour from the T58

so now its the waiting game.


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## pdilley (13/5/09)

Should be yum. You took a swig of some mixed at that ratio in juice form to get a basis of what you'll end up with?

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Supra-Jim (13/5/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> so now its the waiting game.



Awww... the waiting game sucks.... lets play hungry hippos!! (Homer Simpson)

Good to hear CM2, keep us posted on this one.

Cheers SJ


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## brettprevans (13/5/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> Should be yum. You took a swig of some mixed at that ratio in juice form to get a basis of what you'll end up with?
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


not quite sure what ur asking Pete.

yes i took a swig of the yeast starter when i was pouring off the extra liquid. but thats mainly yeasty hot alc cider. wasnt exactly great. im assuming that the finished product will be significantly better.


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## pdilley (13/5/09)

Sorry, was in a daze  Juice, taste of the juice before you pitch in the yeast. Can still mix up a glass just keep adding tablespoons or whatever measure in the same ratios as you poured into the fermenter.


Simple Cider is already clearing but only just. Now its a long waiting game until you can read the fine print of a legal contract through the glass!


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## brettprevans (13/5/09)

ahh i c what you mean. yeah i tasted the juice before i pitched. yum i really like the apple/pear juice taste. berri has a nice blend going on. there's a little more apple juice than apple/pear, but im not really fussed. Pomegranate will probably mask those sublte flavours. althought im not wanting a huge pom taste. oh well. 6 weeks to wait. 

more brewing to do in the meantime. ive still got to get a mead down asap.


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## pdilley (13/5/09)

All's good then.

Noticed the 5 Litre flask, good man! Its actually the minimum sized flask required if you want to brew all the beer styles. You need the room to step up 3 to 4 times. I am getting on a local bulk buying group deal to get mine because 5 Ls are a bit pricey!

Meads are good to put down, even though cool I'm brewing now, pushing US-05 down to "fake lager" temperatures for an ultra clean fermentation. I want to turn the Stringy Bark into a "clean slate" with which to experiment with in secondaries with different flavouring ideas.

You'll go slower with a JAO so expect it to take a bit longer to drop and clear. If you want to get the fermentation time down with JAO you need to keep it warm, otherwise you need to ferment with SNA (1st, 2nd, 3rd nutrient addition schedule) with a normal Mead recipe.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans (13/5/09)

the flask will be great. i actually made a mistake and order the 5L instead of the 3L. but ive decided thats ok cause if im not cultering yeast i can use it as a 5L demijohn and ferment in it / condition. I was thinking of using the flask to experiment with 4L of this batch and use the mulberry molasses I found instead of the Pomegranate syrup.

the 5L flasks are huge and look ridiculously large, but will be bloody useful.


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## pdilley (14/5/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> the flask will be great. i actually made a mistake and order the 5L instead of the 3L. but ive decided thats ok cause if im not cultering yeast i can use it as a 5L demijohn and ferment in it / condition. I was thinking of using the flask to experiment with 4L of this batch and use the mulberry molasses I found instead of the Pomegranate syrup.
> 
> the 5L flasks are huge and look ridiculously large, but will be bloody useful.



Oh come on you know when brewers get together they'll talk about whose got the bigger flask 

It does look ridiculous but if you only get one, its the size to have, though you are right, you can easily use for small batch brewing which is 5 litre demijohns.. But the cost is just out of this world compared to buying a 5 litre demi... Almost 6 times the price 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Renegade (15/5/09)

Did you use the pomigranite syrup called Cortas, made in lebanon ? I bought some of that a while ago but have no idea what to use it for  tastes great though, might have to add it to a boil soon !


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## brettprevans (15/5/09)

dont remember what brand it is. its mostly in arabic. possibly lebanon. either the pomi and mulberry is made in lebanon. I wouldnt add to the boil, as I recon it will strip out the flavours. add to secondary.

well the cider is fermenting away nicely. need to give it a hit with the heat belt tonight as its getting a little cool. smells very interesting compared to fermenting beer.


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## sanders4_ (15/5/09)

I've heard that champagne yeast is a good choice for ciders... something to keep in mind for next time.

Did you go the fresh juice or the UHT stuff? I was thinking about doing a cider, and wasn't sure if the preservatives in some juice would cause problems...hence the appeal of fresh preservative free juice.


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## brettprevans (15/5/09)

champy yeast will make a dry cider. so keep that in mind.

I used berri and coles brand juice. all no preservitive juices. steer away from preservitives. this was only a simple cider. if you wanted authenticity then you'd get fresh propoer juice and it would make a big differance in taste


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## Supra-Jim (15/5/09)

+1 to what CM2 said there sanders.

Preservatives in juice are there to increase shelf life and prevent wild fermentation of the juice. These preservatives will make life very difficult, or most likely kill yeast. 

However it is very easy to find preservative free juice in the supermarket, only the really really cheap brands have preservatives.

Oh, and CM2, is the 'interesting smell' of the fermentation interesting good/bad/not sure??

Cheers SJ


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## brettprevans (15/5/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> is the 'interesting smell' of the fermentation interesting good/bad/not sure??
> Cheers SJ



it a good interesting smell. its just very differant to fermenting beer. its smells like, well, like... fermenting juice. just differant than im use to smelling in my house. if definitiely not an infected smell. I think also becuase its got pear in the mix it smells differant also. 

just caught myself thinking that i could use the yeastcake from this for my next belgian beer. but bugger me if im waiting 7 weeks before i brew a belgian!.


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## Renegade (15/5/09)

Off Topic: 

I cracked a ginger beer this week that used a beer yeast, and it has what might be known as 'rotten egg smell' quite the same as some awful craft lagers I have had at places around sydney. Still it tastes good, and I hope the stink it will dissipate. I wonder if this was the yeast ? (which Im sure would have been some random kit one, therefore an ale yeast) Or maybe the yeast salts I added!?

Back On Topic:

Good tip on the champagne yeast, must try that next time. Any neutral types you can recommend (dry only)?


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## sanders4_ (15/5/09)

Craftbrewer sells only one type of champagne yeast, and also this wyeast cider specific strain - specifically mentions its use with apple and pear! http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1594

considering how good liquid yeasts can be for beer in comparison to dried, I would love to have a head-to-head taste of the same cider wort fermented as two different batches with a different yeast in each batch.

Anyone had experience with the cider wyeast?


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## pdilley (15/5/09)

Cider Faults and Additives


Although with fruit juices, simple sugar ferments like Ginger Beer the sulphur is from stressing the yeasts from lack of needed nutrients to support the yeast life cycle. You simply add in some nutrients like I am doing with the Mead (Stringy Bark US-05) in the non-beer brewing forum and you won't get sulphur in your fermentations.

Even wine yeasts will throw Sulphur when under stress. See my signature for the real reason why all yeasts will throw sulphur.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans (15/5/09)

crap. i better boil up some kit yeasts and add them to my brew quickly then. cheap yeast suppliments.


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## bum (15/5/09)

If backed into a corner, would boiled baker's yeast work as well as brewer's yeast as a nutrient? I know neither is ideal, just wondering is all?


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## chappo1970 (15/5/09)

Either or will do from what I have read.

Cheers

Chappo


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## brettprevans (15/5/09)

yeah sorry thats what i meant. i always keep any kit yeast i end up wiyth and make bread ffrom it or boil it up and use as nutrient.

kit or bakers yeast is full of gooedies, so dead yeast gives up its goodies,.


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## brettprevans (15/5/09)

didnt know ross sold the moncheriertrt yeast(sp). wasnt really worried. crap s[elling i know but bit buzzed and fell like going like carol's charcter likethis


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## pdilley (15/5/09)

He does, and cheap as bloody chips too! at $1.70 a sachet its worth buying some and doing German Apfelwein if thats something you want to try your hand at 

Red Star Montrachet yeast

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## bum (15/5/09)

Thanks, Chappo and CM! Something to file away for later.


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## brettprevans (21/5/09)

dediced to treat this like a lady and give it some attention.

boiled up 3 packs of kit yeast i had in the fridge to use as nutrient. dissolved about 1/2cup (total) of brown and white sugar into the mix and chucked it into the fermentor. gave it a good stir with a ss spoon to get the yeast and 'lees' up from the bottom and gave it a little heat with the heat belt.

for anyone wanting a reason
- boiled yeast: boiling kills yeast, dead yeast acts as a nutrient for live yeast. thus nice happy healthly live yeast
- sugar: a bit of simple sugar to get any lazy yeast back to work. its a method used in making high alc beers, esp belgians. not really needed but decided it coudltn hurt.
- stirring up 'lees': decided I wanted to accentuate any 'champaigne' bready flavours I could get from the yeast. doesnt wquite work cause im not using champaigne yeast. but it wont hurt to get some more chaartacter out of the belgian yeast
- heat: wanted to rbing it back up to around 16-18C. It was a little cool. actually I recon its about time i really gave it a blast of heat and bought it up to 24C for some nice belgian characteristics from the yeast, then coll it back down.

almost 2 weeks down and another 4 to go.


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## brettprevans (26/5/09)

well went to take a hydro reading last night.... cant find the $#^$# thing. so I had to do with drinking a sample instead and I'll buy a hydro on the weekend.

the taste wasnt at all what I was expecting. slight fruit, character, very white wine in character, slightly dry finish. no alc taste, very much like a reisling I decided. My wife had a taste and thought it tasted salty. I asked her if she meant dry and that she agreed that was probably more accurate. Its still cloudy but then again it was the first sample from the tap so there was some yeast suspended.

so I have no idea about this, given that its my first cider. Im not sure whether the yeast has given up and its only partially fermented? is it meant to taste like that? I know the belgian yeast I used will make it taste slightly differant but it was very much like wine and tasted nothing like commercial ciders ive tasted (which is probably a good thing!).

any comments, thought?


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## Supra-Jim (26/5/09)

Hmmm.. need samples and taste tests to comment properly  

Plus to state the obvious, a hydro sample would really give an idea of the yeast progress.

Cheers SJ


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## brettprevans (26/5/09)

yeah gee thanks SJ. I didnt realise that! nah its ok  I know the bloody hydro reading is probably key here. stupid missing hydro. I'll know about the yeast on the weekend when I purchase a new hydro and take a sample. 

if your down my way on the weekend, drop by for a sample.


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## Wardhog (26/5/09)

You'll be bringing along a sampler of this to the case swap, won't you? You've got me intrigued now.


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## captaincleanoff (26/5/09)

i'm wanting to give this cider a go.. should I use 05 (which I have), or be patient and order the Wyeast 4766 cider yeast?

Also when making the starter, should I use juice, or malt extract as normal?


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## brettprevans (26/5/09)

well as for the yeast, either will do. my 4766 hadnt arrived and I was out of S04 and 1056, so I used a belgian yeast (T58). 

As for the starter I used straight juice. I figured that bc the OG for juice is about 1048 its ideal for starters and Im pitching into juice so it just made sense to me.


edit: yes Wardy I'll bring a sample. hopefully all will be done by then an I fill a couple bottles straight out of the keg and bring along.


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## Supra-Jim (26/5/09)

Hmm, from memory your not that far from me. Temptin....

BTW, let me know if you're planning to drop into the Melb Brewers meeting this wed night for the mead presentation. Will make sure to say hi.

Cheers SJ

( h34r: I have a nasty 1.000 - 1.040 Briglow hydro lying around if you want that!!!!


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## brettprevans (26/5/09)

id love to come. i was planning on coming. then my wife advised me that she's having her once a month dinner with her girlfriends tomorrow night. 

I was dead keen on coming. oh well.. 

re briglow...I was thinking of buying a cheapy like that and then I used the line with my missus that a new hydro would cost $30 and a new refractomteter would cost $50 and Id never loose that..... talk about laying the ground work! thanks for the offer mate. ill let you know if something changes and I can come.


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## Supra-Jim (26/5/09)

Bugger about the meeting. Well if you still need a hydro this weekend, I'd be happy to drop by with my proper one (the uber nasty brigalow one can come too, and stay, if you want it!!). 

Cheers SJ


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## bum (26/5/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> the taste wasnt at all what I was expecting. slight fruit, character, very white wine in character, slightly dry finish. no alc taste, very much like a reisling I decided. My wife had a taste and thought it tasted salty. I asked her if she meant dry and that she agreed that was probably more accurate. Its still cloudy but then again it was the first sample from the tap so there was some yeast suspended.
> 
> so I have no idea about this, given that its my first cider. Im not sure whether the yeast has given up and its only partially fermented? is it meant to taste like that? I know the belgian yeast I used will make it taste slightly differant but it was very much like wine and tasted nothing like commercial ciders ive tasted (which is probably a good thing!).



My ciders (both kit and juice) have all bottled very much like (bad) white wine. This does dissipate but never goes away completely (well, "never" = as long as they last). Having said that I do get more of that effect from Bulmers than I do from mine. I've come to the conclusion that the best solution is to ferment out very dry and backsweeten with juice when serving - yeah, it is cheating but you get a tastier drop this way.


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## brettprevans (26/5/09)

mine wasnt a bad wine taste. it was actually qute pleasent after a little getting used to. thats what made me think it was only partially fermented and I needed to kick the lazy yeast in the arse.


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## bum (26/5/09)

Not a huge fan of wine in general, that's why the "bad" went in brackets - more of a value judgement that a qualitative one. For what it is worth, I reckon that my cider at its winey-est is better (less harsh) than the Brown Brothers Moscato the missus usually drinks.

[edit: Why! What big teeth you have, grammar!]


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## pdilley (26/5/09)

captaincleanoff said:


> i'm wanting to give this cider a go.. should I use 05 (which I have), or be patient and order the Wyeast 4766 cider yeast?
> 
> Also when making the starter, should I use juice, or malt extract as normal?



I deleted my post because of a yeast typo, sorry about that. To correct, S-04 yeast is what I used in Simplest Cider as outlined in that post.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley (26/5/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> well went to take a hydro reading last night.... cant find the $#^$# thing. so I had to do with drinking a sample instead and I'll buy a hydro on the weekend.
> 
> the taste wasnt at all what I was expecting. slight fruit, character, very white wine in character, slightly dry finish. no alc taste, very much like a reisling I decided. My wife had a taste and thought it tasted salty. I asked her if she meant dry and that she agreed that was probably more accurate. Its still cloudy but then again it was the first sample from the tap so there was some yeast suspended.
> 
> ...




I think I should put this in a post on its own, but the Great Cider Cross Fermentation With Various Yeasts Experiment is a good reference to print out and store away.

Most "White Wine" ciders are because you used a wine yeast, or quite simply you did not let your cider age properly for the minimum bottle conditioning time of 6 months.

Ciders really do improve in age.

I have a small batch recipe for you to try while you let that one get to the bottling and aging or if you have the glass fermenters you can rack into a glass fermenter and bulk age. If you age for a long time remember that when bottling you will likely have to repitch a tiny bit of yeast to carb up in the bottle.

This is a 1 Gallon (3.78 litre) recipe that will fit perfectly in a glass 5 litre demijohn like I have for my Mead and Small Batch experiments (got 16 of them and trying hard to resist buying more).

Do NOT use a wine yeast with this or you will have to stop the fermentation early yourself!

Ingredients:
3.78 litres of Apple Juice, ALDI with no preservatives or cider apples if you can get them pressed.
450 grams of Brown Sugar (Dark or Normal up to you, try both)
1 Whole cinnamon stick
1/2 Nutmeg, crushed up
1 or 2 cloves

Do not boil, but heat the Apple Juice in a saucepan and dissolve the brown sugar, and add the spices.
Steep this for 20 minutes.
Wait until it cools to around 24-25 degrees.
If you have a nice big funnel with filter great, otherwise filter the spices (or not, your choice) and pour splashing through the funnel into the fermenter.
Now get yourself that new decent (accurate) hydrometer, or get the $26 and order the refractometer from the AHB refractometer post.
If you can get White Labs English Cider, all the better, otherwise Wyeast Cider, or an ale yeast that works for ciders like S-04.

OG should be rather close to 1.102
FG should be rather close to 1.002
Spices should be not obvious but present
Apple aroma should be present
Taste should be great
*** but ***
Minimum aging for 6 months required. Best after 8 months aging. Yeasty until aged properly.


P.S. I will have to see what running a 1/3rd Sugar Break and Standard Nutrient Addition to a Cider could do to the aging times as it works wonders with large reductions in Mead time.


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## manticle (26/5/09)

My recent cider was nice - I could definitely taste the benefit of using a variety of apples (sweet, bitter, tart). It was also quite dry with a certain homage paid to white wine (used white wine yeast after all) but it worked for me. The only thing I would change next time is either making a smaller batch or biting the bullet and juicing more apples as I topped up with water. I'd like some more apple in there.


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## dug (26/5/09)

ATM I've got 2 ciders on the go, one using champange yeast and the other SO4. Both are made with freshly juiced apples with a few pears in the mix as well. The SO4 one had a real sulfur smell to it for about 2 weeks, but that is starting to go away now.

I juiced another 15L worth of apples on the weekend and was hoping to add some more pears but they were way to ripe, (soft and squshy), that when I ran them through the juicer all I ended up with was a mushy mess <_< should have got off my .... and juiced them earlier. anyways what I was thinking of doing for this batch is to culture some yeast from a bottle of lindermans lambic and see how that goes. Worth a try me thinks.


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## brettprevans (27/5/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> Most "White Wine" ciders are because you used a wine yeast, or quite simply you did not let your cider age properly for the minimum bottle conditioning time of 6 months.
> 
> Ciders really do improve in age.


since i used a belgian beer yeast that rules out taste due to using a wine yeast. So I guess it must just be needing some aging. Thats fine. I'll check SG on the weekend and its finished fermentation, then:

1. off to the chest freezer for some lagering/conditioning. 1 week.
2. next weekend, yeast will be dormant or dead, so Ill mix in Pomegranate juice to taste.
3. back into chesty for another week.
4. keg and age.

so I recon another 3 weeks max and then its aging time.


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## Supra-Jim (27/5/09)

I have found the ciders I've done, were really hitting their straps after about 6months aging. Got a really nice champagne like bubble to them, the difficulty is keeping your hands off them for such a long period!!!!

Cheers SJ


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## captaincleanoff (27/5/09)

i'm going to give this a go tonight

I have a white labs vial full of 05 slurry. You guys think that would be enough to kick off 24L of juice, without a starter??


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## brettprevans (27/5/09)

yup. its only ~1048OG. shouldnt be too hard for the yeast to have a crack at it.

edit: actually thinking about it, i probably only had 1 vial worth of yeast in my starter. althought ive never seen a WL vial in person so im only guessing about sie. im imagining one o the stiock standard test tubes you used get in high school.


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## captaincleanoff (27/5/09)

yeah they are a bit bigger than normal test tubes. About 50ml I think.

Citymorgue do you mean that you pitched 1 vial worth into the starter, or you ended up with that much?


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## brettprevans (27/5/09)

i ended up with that much and pitched it.

I just did a starter from a pack of T58 dired yeast. stepped it up once and then pitched. so 1 pack of yeast + ~250ml of juice. once fermented out, tip out 'beer' and added ~300ml or more of juice again. once fermented out, tipped off the 'beer' and pitched the lot. 

once pitched it took off in a couple of hours.


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## brettprevans (4/6/09)

update on this.

Did another taste test last night (just straight cider). the win like flavour has sissapated and there is a now a slightly tart taste. not unpleasent just slightly acidic. there is also a slight bready taste stilll there from the belgian yeast. I quite like it.

Anyways decided to do some testing of adding Pomegranate concentrate to the cider..... The pomegranite has a slight sweetnes but it then sour like cranberries. no matter what ratio i mixed it was too sour/tart for my wife. maybe i should have fermented it out.... I would like it as a summer drink, but its not me., its for the wife.

backup plan. - add mulberry concentrate/syrup to the cider..... still a light tang to it but a lot sweeter. 
next step- depth of flavour...I added a few drops of vanilla essence (for instand vanilla flavour - id use vanilla beans in the brew). yum!

so the plan now is to leave the cider to lager for a month or so, then add in a few vanilla beans and some mulberry concentrate. I'll bottle some cider with the Pomegranate to see how it goes, but the mulberry will be the star of the show.

maybe need to backsweeten slightly. I dont have any lactose so will come up with something.


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## brettprevans (22/6/09)

update time

Racked it off the yeast. Been cold conditioning for about 2 weeks.

15 June (Last Monday)
I siphoned off some cider and added 3 vanilla sticks and heated it up. Then back into the fermentor for room temp conditioning (which in melb is about 12C atm)

18 June (thurs)
Added 1kg of Mulberry concentrate/syrup. 
again i siphoned off some cider, heated it up to dissolve the mulberry concentrate/syrup. into the fermentor.
wife thought ti was slightly to tart?. so I dissolved about 300g of white sugar into a bit of water and into the fermentor it went. 

21 June (Sunday)
emptied into keg and some 750PET bottles. 
Carbing @ ~ 80KPA

Hopefully it will be ready this weekend for a trial. 

Im going to mix a little of of pomagranite into the bottled stuff for a taste. let you know how it goes.

Summary:
1. pomagranite is bloody sour/tart in finish. recomend using it in primary to scrub out some tartness.
2. if your going to use it, you'll need to sweeten the end result (I recon some lactose might solve the problem).
3. mulberry is great stuff, but still needed a little sweetening.
4. I probably ended up with 4.4% - 4.8%. I recon 6% would have been better.
5. cold condioning is key. it really help clear it up and create a little crispness.
6. I prefer the flavour of this to any commercial cider ive tasted. incl coldstream. (althought coldstream is a clean nuetral cider so its not really comparing apples with apples (bad pun))


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## brettprevans (24/6/09)

decided to taste a bottle of the uncarbed stuff last night. Not bad. a little sweet since its not carbed. I drnak half a 750ml bottle then decided to add some vodka for sh*ts and giggles. Lovely little mixer it turns out to be.

the vanilla is really coming through now.


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## pdilley (26/6/09)

Keep us updated as it progresses.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## max10au (27/6/09)

Hi All
I have just starting to do Home Brews again. I can make them so my pallet loves them. I am on a Pension so this is great for me. Now I would like to make a Cider brew as close to the Strongbow Sweet taste. I have only made a cider from a Canned mix and it tasted flat and shithouse. I have read just about all this subject on this site and cant decide what to do. So here is what I have a 30lt fermentor (Plastic) so I would want to make the Cider at about 25lt per brew. I dont want to spend a lot of money making it. I have heard that you have to put Apple Juice in it as well? All I want is a Cider that is Sparkling (With Bubbles) and drinkable. How would I do this, Brewing, what is the right size Fermenting Bottle to use, how long till I can drink it etc: All I want is a simple Sparkling Sweet Cider to drink. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Also what size Bottles should I use to Bottle the Cider in.
:icon_chickcheers:


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## pdilley (29/6/09)

max10au said:


> Hi All
> I have just starting to do Home Brews again.



Hey Max,

Good to see you home brewing again. Because your question will take this particular thread off topic, best post it in a new post in the forum and then you can get some responses to it in there. Otherwise people might not respond as they think it will take over from the Original Poster of this thread.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans (30/6/09)

max10au said:


> Hi All
> I have just starting to do Home Brews again. I can make them so my pallet loves them. I am on a Pension so this is great for me. Now I would like to make a Cider brew as close to the Strongbow Sweet taste. I have only made a cider from a Canned mix and it tasted flat and shithouse. I have read just about all this subject on this site and cant decide what to do. So here is what I have a 30lt fermentor (Plastic) so I would want to make the Cider at about 25lt per brew. I dont want to spend a lot of money making it. I have heard that you have to put Apple Juice in it as well? All I want is a Cider that is Sparkling (With Bubbles) and drinkable. How would I do this, Brewing, what is the right size Fermenting Bottle to use, how long till I can drink it etc: All I want is a simple Sparkling Sweet Cider to drink. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. Also what size Bottles should I use to Bottle the Cider in.
> :icon_chickcheers:


MAx

good to hear your back brewing.

I recon the best place for your question is either a new thread 'Strongbow Sweet Cider - How do I make something similar' or post the question under BrewerPete's Simpliest cider thread here . I only suggest BP's thread as your wanting a very simple inexpensive way to make cider. well it doesnt get any simplier than BP's method.

I woul expect that a sweet cider yeast or a champaign yeast with lactose added would be the way to go. I personally dont like storngbow and havent tasted the stuff in so long that I couldnt give you any real advice as I dont remember what it tastes like.

I think someone else may have posted a wuetion on how to make a dry stongbow. might be worth asking the question in that thread.


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## brettprevans (8/7/09)

Had another sample last night. Yum. Its not something that i'd personally drink all the time but the missus likes it which is who I brewed it for.

There is a sweetness added by the mulberry then a slight bitterness which I can onnly attribute to the fact that its a syrup/concentrate. but I think it works well. It really needs the vanilla I thinnk to add depth of flavour. 

The mulberry seemes to have clouded it up quite a lot. its a lot clearer than what it was but I think the mulberry will permentantly cloud it. not that it really matters. I was thinking last night about what went wrong with the head (there was none). then it occured to me...its a cider, it doesnt have head. so all is well. carbed up nicely.

so I'd probably make this again but tweak it slightly. just have a play around with it to suit personal preferance.


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## brettprevans (27/7/09)

well another taste update for the record.

cider has cleared and some of the insoluble mulberry bits has dropped out which has led to a small loss in flavour but not enough to worry about. Missus is drinking it happily.

Maple and his missus (I think) sampled some and it got a thumbs up. so I recon I'll mark this up as a success.


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## MitchDudarko (7/2/10)

Would you suggest subbing the pomigranite syrup with Grenadine? Just having issues sourcing it.


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## Bizier (7/2/10)

I have a pomegranate cider on at the moment. I found 2 brands. The first (arabic stuff, I think called Caesar) had sugar and was from concentrate, and it had a woody seedy taste, which I thought might add a little tannic complexity to the brew. The second brand is pasteurised and was half raspberry, but not from concentrate. I think it is Algerian or something. I got it from Bananna Joes in Marrickville. Anyway that stuff is great, tart and clean in flavour. They have a blueberry juice too, which tastes great, and I am considering adding it to a wit or similar.

I have crashed it at 1.010, it tastes good, a little too clean, but very refreshing. There is the presence of sulphur, which is annoying, but not in a quantity that will put the GF off. I thought I would backsweeten after ferment finished, but I decided to just stop it. I used champagne yeast from Ross and fermented at 17 degrees with a single nutrient addition at the start.


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## brettprevans (11/2/10)

MitchDudarko said:


> Would you suggest subbing the pomigranite syrup with Grenadine? Just having issues sourcing it.


grenadine is just red cordial/syrup these days, so i cant say it would be a straight sub. i suppose there isnt too many middle eastern stores in kalgoolie is there! you could always sub it with pom juice post fermentation.


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## brettprevans (23/4/10)

Tasted this again for the keg (it's been awhile), it tastes fantastic. Ultra clean, mulberry has really come through and vanilla us great back flavour. Bugger all head but I never see head on cider. Now that it's aged it's really bloody good.


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## brettprevans (29/9/12)

Thread resurrection
Last night i made another version of this except using the whole bottle of pomegranate this time.

Pomagranite apple ginger
700ml pomegranate molassas
14L apple juice
6L apple black current juice
Large hand of ginger grated
Uso5

Bring on summer cider

Edit. 1tsp of molassas in 10ml water is 1090. Which is about what honey is i think from memory. Cant be buggered doing the math.


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## brettprevans (16/11/12)

citymorgue2 said:


> Thread resurrection
> Last night i made another version of this except using the whole bottle of pomegranate this time.
> 
> Pomagranite apple ginger
> ...


tasted this the other night. absolutely brilliant. lovely dry soft (soft as in no well balanced, no sharpness or harshness) cider with a nice perfumed pomegranite finish. Whether you'd pick it as pomegranite if you idnt know it was in there im not sure, but you'd certainly know there was something differant in there. Its going to be great after another few weeks of lagering


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## brettprevans (12/3/13)

Keg blew sunday night. Very disappointing its gone. Will be brewing this again. 
In fact ill be doing it again and a variation using the lees from a pyment currently fermenting away - http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70621-pyment-experiment-1/

Damn tasty summer quencher. None of this nanby pamby redorkling artificial flavoured 4.5% rubbish.


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## brettprevans (23/3/13)

Racked off the pyment leaving the lees and have begun the next experiment. 

Winter warmer cider
50% apple juice
50% apple blackcurrant juice
1kg dark brown sugar
700ml pomegranate molasses will be added after primary.


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## Airgead (23/3/13)

Sounds good.

Might want to go easy on the pomegranate molasses. If its what I'm thinking of its powerful strong stuff.

If you're adding after primary, are you expecting it to ferment? Or just adding it for flavour? If its just for flavour I'd maybe add a little at a time until you are happy with the taste. Easier to add than take away.

Cheers
Dave


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## brettprevans (23/3/13)

Airgead said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> Might want to go easy on the pomegranate molasses. If its what I'm thinking of its powerful strong stuff.
> 
> ...


I used the whole bottle last time and was happy with it. Iys now a year or so old so its probably loosing some of its potency. 

Happpy for some of it to ferment out. But yeah I want the flavour.


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## Airgead (23/3/13)

Yeah... forgot to look at the thread title didn't I... you have used this before.

Where do you get it BTW? I wouldn't mind having a crack at it.

Cheers
Dave


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## brettprevans (23/3/13)

Airgead said:


> Yeah... forgot to look at the thread title didn't I... you have used this before.
> 
> Where do you get it BTW? I wouldn't mind having a crack at it.
> 
> ...


I buy mine from a lebanese bakery in brunswick Melbourne. Ive seen it in different middle eastern shops though that sell spices etc. Ill take a picture and post it up. Shouldnt be too hard to locate. I originally started buying it to use in middle eastern chicken pies


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## brettprevans (8/4/13)

citymorgue2 said:


> Racked off the pyment leaving the lees and have begun the next experiment.
> 
> Winter warmer cider
> 50% apple juice
> ...


tasting brilliant out of the fermentor. slight hints of grape and honey with the cider. will be great


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