# Would this work as a PID for brewing



## agillies (24/4/14)

Hey,

We have a couple of these at work that we aren't going to be using using

http://www.temperature.com.au/Products/Controllers/DCL33A.aspx

Would these work as a PID? or are they not suitable.

Cheers

Adam


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## dicko (24/4/14)

That PID doesn't seem to accomodate a PT 100 sensor

Have a read of this

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/blog/166/entry-463-why-k-type-thermocouples-are-unsuitable-for-brewing/


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## agillies (24/4/14)

ahh spewing, i thought RTD was the same as a PT100.


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## wessmith (24/4/14)

Youre right agillies, RTD and PT100 are one and the same.

Wes


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## QldKev (24/4/14)

The only thing I see they are a din rail mount, I would prefer a surface mount so you dont have to open the panel. For the ~$30 for a Sestos thats the way I would go (and currently run)


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## agillies (24/4/14)

QldKev said:


> The only thing I see they are a din rail mount, I would prefer a surface mount so you dont have to open the panel. For the ~$30 for a Sestos thats the way I would go (and currently run)


Yeah i have been eyeing up those Sestos ones, they look very nice and would do exactly what i need.
There seems to be a few on ebay and aliexpress, but the differ, like voltages etc.
I presume I would want one like this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electrical-PID-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Relay-Output-Powerful-PT100-Sensor-/231137459375?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35d0ddbcaf

And not a 10-24v one.

Also i like the look of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universal-Digital-PID-Temperature-Controller-Control-220V-REX-C400-0-400-/280919115747

Would this work fine? I just like the size, 48x48 seems a bit small for my fat fingers.


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## dent (24/4/14)

All Pt100 sensors are RTDs but not all RTDs are Pt100. 

Pt100 is preferable but even the NTC RTDs (like on your fridge controller) are better than K thermocouples. K thermocouples are not recommended for brewing - they're better for your oven or kiln.


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## QldKev (24/4/14)

The REX have been hit and miss, whereas the Sestos has had no know issues. They are a decent size unit, bigger than they sound. I've got big hands and don't have issues with the Sestos

The Sestos supports the use of either a mechanical relay or a Solid State Relay (SSR). If you choose the SSR model then the unit can pulse the SSR in ms pulses so it can get great precision on the heating.

The one you linked to is a D1S-2R-220
D1S model, lol I think they all are
2R is the mechanical relay version, for the SSR you need a VR
220 is 220 volts, in the spec it is actually 110-240 +- 10 %, which works fine under our AC power supply.

So for the SSR you need the model D1S-VR-220
Then you need the pt100 (from <$1 to many $), SSR (under $5), and a heat sink (under $3 to many $) to suit.


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## gsouth82 (24/4/14)

I'd be jumping on those.
I used to deal with temperature controls in my last job and they don't sell pieces of shit. That would be a good unit.
I also notice its made by Shinko. They also make good stuff. I've worked with some of there old controllers which ran a bunch of furnaces used for metal treatment. I even wrote a driver for them to talk to a SCADA system. 
I'd be grabbing those and connecting PT100's with an extended plan of hooking up the MODBUS to remotely monitor and control your process.


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## agillies (24/4/14)

gsouth said:


> I'd be jumping on those.
> I used to deal with temperature controls in my last job and they don't sell pieces of shit. That would be a good unit.
> I also notice its made by Shinko. They also make good stuff. I've worked with some of there old controllers which ran a bunch of furnaces used for metal treatment. I even wrote a driver for them to talk to a SCADA system.
> I'd be grabbing those and connecting PT100's with an extended plan of hooking up the MODBUS to remotely monitor and control your process.


I reckon i'm going to go the D1S-VR-220 route, the Shinko ones will probably be too complicated for me to use. Lol.

I've grabbed them anyway, just a carton of beer to the boss.

If you know anyone who might put them to good use, let me know.


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## real_beer (24/4/14)

agillies said:


> Hey,
> 
> We have a couple of these at work that we aren't going to be using using
> 
> ...


agillies one thing you must learn quickly when you enter the domain of DIY brewing projects is that if something looks good, is free, and you not sure if you could use it is............... GRAB IT and put it in your all-sorts & odd-bods collection. It might sit there a while until one day without warning you'll be illuminated with a Cosmic vision of a wonderful brewing project it would suit perfectly.

Last year I was at the Armadale Recycle Tip and low & behold there in front of me was a brand new Coleman 20lt circular drink cooler, I grabbed it quickly for $2 as it was minus a lid, this was obviously why it had been dumped. This didn't bother me as I knew I could still use as a mini mash tun it if I made my own lid, so into the shed it went. I forgot about for about 6 months then one weekend while tidying my shed up the cooler appeared before me & I thought 'Hmmm I'll have to see about getting a lid for that". I kid you not a week later I was coming home from work chatting away on the hands free halfway between the townships of Boddington and Dwellingup when something at the side of the road caught my eye and registered in my tiny little brain. I pulled up and threw a U-turn to have a closer look. I was gob smacked there lying at the side of the road slap in middle of about 40 km of national park was the exact lid I needed, what are the fuc*ing odds of that!!! The lid was dusty but didn't even have a mark on it. Things like this happen too me all the time, I'm sure it must too others as well, maybe we should start a thread like "Spooky Homebrew Craftbrewing Adventures". 

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/uploads/albums/gallery/album_1176/med_gallery_5481_1176_505075.jpg

It's still sitting here unused at the moment, BUT ONE DAY! :lol:
Edit: Just read your post above after I posted this you should have tried for a six-pack


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## booargy (24/4/14)

software based (Arduino mathos Braumiser) control and switching is the way to go. hardware is smaller and cheaper but the code is more difficult.


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## agillies (28/4/14)

real_beer said:


> agillies one thing you must learn quickly when you enter the domain of DIY brewing projects is that if something looks good, is free, and you not sure if you could use it is............... GRAB IT and put it in your all-sorts & odd-bods collection. It might sit there a while until one day without warning you'll be illuminated with a Cosmic vision of a wonderful brewing project it would suit perfectly.
> 
> Last year I was at the Armadale Recycle Tip and low & behold there in front of me was a brand new Coleman 20lt circular drink cooler, I grabbed it quickly for $2 as it was minus a lid, this was obviously why it had been dumped. This didn't bother me as I knew I could still use as a mini mash tun it if I made my own lid, so into the shed it went. I forgot about for about 6 months then one weekend while tidying my shed up the cooler appeared before me & I thought 'Hmmm I'll have to see about getting a lid for that". I kid you not a week later I was coming home from work chatting away on the hands free halfway between the townships of Boddington and Dwellingup when something at the side of the road caught my eye and registered in my tiny little brain. I pulled up and threw a U-turn to have a closer look. I was gob smacked there lying at the side of the road slap in middle of about 40 km of national park was the exact lid I needed, what are the fuc*ing odds of that!!! The lid was dusty but didn't even have a mark on it. Things like this happen too me all the time, I'm sure it must too others as well, maybe we should start a thread like "Spooky Homebrew Craftbrewing Adventures".
> 
> ...


I'm similar to you, but oppposite. Lol. I'll not grab something, then in 6months time regret it.

I only gave him 20 or so of my beers, so cost less than a sixer.

Ended up ordering the Sensos ones QldKev posted about.


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## TheWiggman (28/4/14)

I've got 2 x Shinko controllers and they are plush. Jap quality, easy to set and designed for a monkey on a control line. Sometimes however you need to specify the input type on purchase so you may be locked into a specific thermocouple type and hence no RTD for you. Mine for instance are K type thermocouple only. You can make them work for you though if you understand the limitations. 
Looking at the instructions it looks like your units have selectable inputs which includes PT100 RTDs. 
You've done well. Those units would be worth a fortune.

Ed: they also are configured for different outputs when supplied. Relay, 12V or 4-20mA. You need to know which before you go rigging your system up.


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## 431neb (29/4/14)

Going back to QLDKevs comment...



QldKev said:


> The REX have been hit and miss, whereas the Sestos has had no know issues. They are a decent size unit, bigger than they sound. I've got big hands and don't have issues with the Sestos
> 
> The Sestos supports the use of either a mechanical relay or a Solid State Relay (SSR). If you choose the SSR model then the unit can pulse the SSR in ms pulses so it can get great precision on the heating.
> 
> ...


Does that mean that this bundle on eBay would be perfect? It contains a D1S-VR-220 and a PT100 sensor and a 60A-SSR.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-PID-Temperature-Control-Controller-D1S-VR-220-PT100-60A-SSR-/261376596279?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdb425937

Also (I'm new to this so bear with me) ,will that unit will support 2 sensors ? If it does I'm assuming I would need to buy an additional sensor and SSR?

PT100

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-PT100-Sensor-Temperature-Controller-Sensor-/321389353274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad44c593a

SSR + Heat sink

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State-Relay-SSR-HS-60A-PID-Temperature-Controller-Amp-Amper-24-480V-/121088217683?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c316b9253

Can that heat sink fit 2 SSRs (it looks quite large).

Appreciate it it anyone can be bothered clicking on those links to confirm this stuff for me (and others), Cheers.


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## TheWiggman (29/4/14)

The first link would suit you perfectly. Bargain.

It'll only support a single sensor at a time. You could configure your system to switch between sensors, but be wary that you would probably also need to switch your heating output to suit the sensor location.
For simplicity I'd say no, only rig each controller to one sensor and heater.

That heast sink accomodates a single SSR only. You will only need one relay anyway.


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