# Rice In Brew



## heyyu (17/11/09)

i recently sampled some chinese beer and on the list of ingredience was rice i'd like to know does any body on this forum have any experience with using rice in their brews pros cons and basically how it is used.
also the beer had a strong what i call a lantana smell which i like and would anybody know how this was achieved hops or yeast or whatever.
thankyou ladies and gentlemen for your replies in advance


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## QldKev (17/11/09)

The use of rice will leave you with a lighter beer style. Ie it will give you alcohol without the flavour of the grain.

I'm not sure why in a kit brew you would be chasing that, with so many lighter styles available, not a dig just with Coopers Cerveza and others available you would not need to go to the effort. I'm not even sure how you could get it to convert without doing a mini mash.

In AG you can add rice when you mash in (that has previously been overcooked until soagy) and the enzymes from the grain will convert it into sugars, resulting in a lighter style beer.

With the lantana smell I assume it would come from hops. I'm not sure which variety, maybe have a read of the craftbrewer site, they have descriptions next the to the hops.

QldKev


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## Bribie G (17/11/09)

Rice needs to be converted by enzymes before it can be fermented, so has to be mashed with other malted grains as stated above. I find it goes very well in a Carlton style beer. Some guys on the forum such as Fourstar use up to a third rice to malt but I'd normally just use 500g to 4 kilos of pilsener malt. It gives a smoothness to the beer without the undue 'thinness' you can get using sugar or dextrose. I just use the cheapest long grain rice I can get.
I guess most Asian breweries use a fair amount of rice, I know that St Miguel in the Philippines does, for example. Also Budweiser in the USA uses a lot of rice, they actually have farms in Louisiana.

For kit brewing, what you can often get from Chinese supermarkets is:





Which is a light malty toffee-like syrup made from converted rice. I use it now and again in golden ales, turns out a little sweetish but you could try it with a kit and see if you like it.


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## Fourstar (17/11/09)

BribieG said:


> Rice needs to be converted by enzymes before it can be fermented, so has to be mashed with other malted grains as stated above. I find it goes very well in a Carlton style beer. Some guys on the forum such as Fourstar use up to a third rice to malt but I'd normally just use 500g to 4 kilos of pilsener malt.



Thaught id wait for you to jump in 1st bribie!  

I ususaly shoot for around 20% of the malt bill if im doing a Rice Lager. The beer ive just put down for the VIC caseswap (which is fantastic BTW) has 20% rice. This was cooked in the rice cooker with WAYYY too much water to turn it to congee, dumped into the fermenter with my strike water and then doughed in ontop.

I did a high temp protein rest (55deg) and a 65deg sacch rest. The palate is very much like a commercial/streetside Bia Hoi which is what i was trying to achieve. The only downside i had was the super-mega-awesome efficiency i ended up with which bumped it up to a 5%abv beer with my final gravity. Thankfully the hop/malt is still balanced well as i evened it out with some extra magnum and perle just before flameout.

If you wanted to do this as an extract (which i'd recommend over a kit) i'd sub out the pilsner malt with pale extract and still do a steep of some carapils to get the hint of pils/grainy sweetness. As for the rice, well you would need to use the rice syrup bribie mentions or you can get some from brew shops that is a clear form. Ignore the water additions if you are not at that stage of your brewing. You can get away without it when brewing with extract.

Oh also when using the rice syrup, i dont know if you will end up with the same result as when you mash with rice. The enzymes in the malted barley turn the starch in the rice into maltose. You also get a specific aroma when using rice in beer, its not big, but its noticable. I dont know what the type of sugar is in the bottles of rice syrup from a LHBS but i'd be doubting its maltose.

Have attached a pic also  

Reunification Express - Viet Street Lager
Standard American(viet) Lager 
Type: All Grain
Date: 13/09/2009 
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 33.38 L 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0 

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 70.0 % 
1.00 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 20.0 % 
0.50 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 % 
10.00 gm Magnum [12.50%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 15.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Pearle [6.00%] (20 min) Hops 4.0 IBU 
1.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Lager 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.041 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.8 % 
Bitterness: 19.0 IBU
Est Color: 2.9 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Protein Rest Add 7.50 L of water at 63.3 C 55.0 C 20 min 
Saccharification Add 6.50 L of water at 79.5 C 65.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 96.1 C 77.0 C 10 min 

Notes
Mash: CaS04 1g, CaCl 2g
Boil: CaSO4 1g, CaCl 3g


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## mfdu (18/11/09)

BribieG said:


> For kit brewing, what you can often get from Chinese supermarkets is:
> 
> View attachment 33109
> 
> ...



i gotta find me some of this to have a play with.


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## Darkman (18/11/09)

Fourstar said:


> Thaught id wait for you to jump in 1st bribie!
> 
> I ususaly shoot for around 20% of the malt bill if im doing a Rice Lager. The beer ive just put down for the VIC caseswap (which is fantastic BTW) has 20% rice. This was cooked in the rice cooker with WAYYY too much water to turn it to congee, dumped into the fermenter with my strike water and then doughed in ontop.
> 
> ...



Fourstar,

You forgot to include serving suggestions. When I was in Hanoi in 96 the beer was served up from a galvanized tin container using a hose to siphon the beer into the glass. I hope thing haven't changed to much


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## Fourstar (18/11/09)

Darkman said:


> Fourstar,
> 
> You forgot to include serving suggestions. When I was in Hanoi in 96 the beer was served up from a galvanized tin container using a hose to siphon the beer into the glass. I hope thing haven't changed to much



Now they are on those party keg hand pumps attached to a 50L keg via open air at most streetside cafes. the unfortuante thing is if the turnover is slow, the 'freshness' is compromised and goes stale in their climate pretty quickly. the best place i went to that had Bia Hoi was serving it off CO2 in Hanoi and was one of the most refreshing beers i have ever had. Seriously awesome for a pesants megaswill. the kind of beer we need here for hot summers days. My recipe is a little too commercial viet style. Sort of like Bia Ha Noi if you remember it (maroon/beige label). I Loooooved Bia Saigon! Could suck them back by the case full! :icon_drool2:


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## barneyb (19/11/09)

When looking for a Sapporo clone I stumbled on this one:

1/2 lb carapils 
4 lbs pale or extra light malt extract 
2 lbs rice syrup solids 
1 oz Czech Saaz (60 min) 
1/4 oz saaz (15 min) 
1/4 oz hersbrucker (15 min) 
1/4 oz saaz (1 min) 
1/4 oz hersbrucker (1 min) 
Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager yeast 

It was labelled as a Sapporo/Kirin clone, no idea if it is any good. I want to try it but it is way down on my list, especially as I don't have any good temperature control.


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## mfdu (21/11/09)

so i found the rice maltose, as detailed above. aaah foot-i-scray - good for everything from horse, smack and malt. 

$1.45 per 500g. 

i'll try two (1kg) with a coopers lager can, us05 and maybe a small amount of aroma hopping.
that way, it'll be an easy comparison with my usual summer beer of coopers lager, saunders malt (1kg) and some hops for flavour / aroma.

what was the decision re. hop profiles for an asiatic stylin beer? (not very bitter, i know that much!!!)

c. 

(EDIT - hersbrucker / saaz, huh? hmmm - ok. so maybe i'll try a late addition PoR for spice, instead and make all the PoR haters shiver)


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## scott_penno (15/2/11)

Those that brew with rice, when you say 500g or 1kg in a batch, is that the weight of the dry rice before being cooked or is that the weight of the rice after cooking?

sap.


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## unrealeous (15/2/11)

sappas said:


> Those that brew with rice, when you say 500g or 1kg in a batch, is that the weight of the dry rice before being cooked or is that the weight of the rice after cooking?


Dry - same as grains


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## QldKev (15/2/11)

sappas said:


> Those that brew with rice, when you say 500g or 1kg in a batch, is that the weight of the dry rice before being cooked or is that the weight of the rice after cooking?
> 
> sap.



that's dry rice before being cooked.

QldKev


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## MaestroMatt (24/6/12)

Sorry to revive this thread but I'm in need of advice....


I will be adding 1KG of rice to my mash tomorrow for a Aussie Lager. I pre-cooked the rice tonight but ended up with a VERY gluey, pudding like consistency to the rice and I am worried that if I add this to my mash I am going to have more trouble than 100% rye when it comes to run-off. Grabbing a bit with my fingers, it was super slick....

Can I ask those who have previously used rice in their mash, to what consistency did you cook your rice to? Am I looking to just cook it normally (as in the conistency of fried rice) or am I looking to cook the sh!t out of it?

Comments appreciated.


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## kelbygreen (24/6/12)

never used rice but read up on it about a month a go and they say cook the crap out of it so its like you describe.


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## jasonharley (24/6/12)

MaestroMatt said:


> Sorry to revive this thread but I'm in need of advice....
> 
> 
> I will be adding 1KG of rice to my mash tomorrow for a Aussie Lager. I pre-cooked the rice tonight but ended up with a VERY gluey, pudding like consistency to the rice and I am worried that if I add this to my mash I am going to have more trouble than 100% rye when it comes to run-off. Grabbing a bit with my fingers, it was super slick....
> ...



If your grain bill (minus the rice) is above 4kg.... you should be ok

5 eyes


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## Harry Volting (25/6/12)

I've found the pre-cooked rice additions to be apita. 
The only success that I had was with the Uncle Bens rice. 
Pre-converted ready to go. In the blender. In the BIAB mash.
No problems at all.
Harry.


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## alfadog (25/6/12)

I used 1kg of rice in a cerveza that I am drinking at the moment, it was my first time using it. I had cooked it as I would normally and left it over night. It was not overly gluggy. The efficiency came out at what I was aiming for too.


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## jyo (25/6/12)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> If your grain bill (minus the rice) is above 4kg.... you should be ok
> 
> 5 eyes



^ This.
Don't stress, mate. If you are super worried, just sparge really slowly. In my experience, at the end of the mash, there is no glugginess left. It all gets converted.

Also, if the rice is cool make sure you adjust for the temp when you add it to the mash.


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## Bribie G (25/6/12)

I've never had a problem with rice. One stage you could try is to heat the rice mixture to 73 degrees and stir in a kilo of the malt grain and stir. As you stir, the Alpha Amylase in the grain will almost instantly start to convert the rice starch and within a minute the gluggy mixture will turn into a "soup" which you can then pour into your main mash. At the end of the mash all you should have left of the rice are little rice "ghosts".


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## peas_and_corn (25/6/12)

At 73C you're not going to gelatnise all of the starch in the rice. That's why cooking first is required, it gelatnises the starch in order for the enzymes to get the the starch in the first place. That said, it doesn't need to be boiled until it turns to goo, just held at about 80C for about 30 mins.


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## Bribie G (25/6/12)

I was referring to the thick cooked rice "porridge", of course you can't do it with raw rice.


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## peas_and_corn (25/6/12)

Ah, my bad.


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## Nicko_Cairns (22/7/12)

Thanks FourStar,

I'm just about to upgrade from kits to mini-mash and that style of recipe is exactly what I'm chasing, cheers.


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## Nicko_Cairns (22/7/12)

So people recommend not using rice with a kit can, but can you do it? If I put the contents of a kit can on the stove and added the dextrose, some hops and the rice glug, would it work? How long would I need to mix it for?? Might be a quick interesting addition to the last couple of kit cans I have at home before I mini-mash..


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## Bribie G (22/7/12)

The whole point of using rice is that it gets converted to fermentables by the diastase already present in the grain malt. Kits don't contain diastase, that stage was long ago before the wort got boiled and concentrated at the kit factory. So with just a plain kit you would end up with a kit plus nonconvertible rice goop.


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## gtsbrewer (25/7/12)

MaestroMatt said:


> Sorry to revive this thread but I'm in need of advice....
> 
> 
> I will be adding 1KG of rice to my mash tomorrow for a Aussie Lager. I pre-cooked the rice tonight but ended up with a VERY gluey, pudding like consistency to the rice and I am worried that if I add this to my mash I am going to have more trouble than 100% rye when it comes to run-off. Grabbing a bit with my fingers, it was super slick....
> ...



Hey maestroMatt,


I cook my rice to gluey gluggy mix. also in my grains i will put bout 500g of rice hulls in with the grains as rice hulls can be used to increase the lautering ability of a mash. this is for a normal size brew of 23lt final volume 

hope its some help 

:kooi:


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## Nicko_Cairns (2/8/12)

Bribie G said:


> The whole point of using rice is that it gets converted to fermentables by the diastase already present in the grain malt. Kits don't contain diastase, that stage was long ago before the wort got boiled and concentrated at the kit factory. So with just a plain kit you would end up with a kit plus nonconvertible rice goop.



okay thanks Bribie.


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