# Hopped apple cider



## damoninja (11/12/13)

Going to get one of these going in the next week or so - has anyone done one? 

I'm not planning it to be graff like, I don't want to add malt mainly to keep it gluten free but I do like the dry tarty ciders that I've brewed so far. 
I'm eventually planning on doing it from pressed / juiced apples and pears, but I've got a heap of juice that was given to me that I don't want to waste. 

What I've got in bottles: 
6.5L apple juice
1.25L pear juice.

I can go up to 11L final volume, so I'm considering getting some apples and smashing them with my new juicer. 

Since you can't really get most "cider type" apples, what kind flavours do the different common varieties of apples that you can get at supermarkets/markets give? 

I was thinking of just dry hopping with like 1-1.5g/L of galaxy
But I'm open to hop schedules / amounts / types, I have to order some this as I've only got fuggles and EKG at the moment which would probably be a waste in this.


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## Airgead (11/12/13)

damoninja said:


> Since you can't really get most "cider type" apples, what kind flavours do the different common varieties of apples that you can get at supermarkets/markets give?


Sweet. That's about it. Granny smiths give some acid. Some highly perfumed varieties like Gravenstein can come through in the finished cider but you have to use a lot. And its absolutely the wrong season for fresh apples. Anything you get will have been in cold storage since last feb so will have no flavour or perfume left.

If you want to use fresh apples, you want to do it in season and you also need to add a lot of them. Just crushing up a couple and adding the pulp to bottled juice will do precisely nothing to your cider except give it an extra chance of being infected. To get a perceptible flavour you will need 5-10% by volume of the juice.

Cheers
Dave


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## JoeyJoeJoe (11/12/13)

I have used galaxy in a graff and I would recommend dry hopping with it not boiling it as it is too bitter when boiled. I used 1gram per liter and it was very noticeable flavor and smell wise. It has a different taste in graff than it does in beer though. In beer I find galaxy fruity almost like lychee but in graff it isn't that fruity for some reason? It might be because my graff was super dry 1004?

Also I have found a bit of malt in the cider (so graff) really speeds up the fermentation process as I think the malt is full of stuff yeast likes so if you are going to go straight juice make sure you add some yeast nutrient as a minimum or it will take ages to get down. Also yeast wise could I recommend the S-189 lager yeast? very clean (no yeast taste in finished cider) and it seems to be almost unstallable + I hear that you can use it up to 18C with really good results (I have done mine at 14 though)

Good luck!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (11/12/13)

I know that Spreyton Cider Co down here in Tassie do a hopped (very lightly) cider, which is fantastic.

Most beer yeasts will chew through the juice with no trouble. But all will end up dry.

The reason I read, is that beer yeast attacks simple sugars first, and then more complex strings after. If a beer is low attenuation, it drops out before getting to the complex sugars (or at least completing the job).

However, apple juice, especially from the store is all simple sugars, so the attenuation rate of the yeast is less of an issue.

I've done it with Windsor, US05, Champagne yeast (that really ends up dry), and at the lower temps, no noticeable difference between beer yeast. YMMV.


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## damoninja (11/12/13)

I'm planning to use US-05 slurry from the gluten free beer I've got going at the moment. 
Also going to add some DAP as the last cider I did took about 20 days, hopefully this will help it along somewhat.

I wasn't thinking of like a handful of apples, I would have bought a kg or something. 
But if it's a waste of time I won't bother ;P

What about some orange or lemon peel? I've some lemon peel in the freezer. 
How much of this would I even use? Never used in any beer/cider before.


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## Airgead (11/12/13)

damoninja said:


> I wasn't thinking of like a handful of apples, I would have bought a kg or something.
> But if it's a waste of time I won't bother ;P


If you look at it in terms of volume, a kilo of apples will give you maybe 600-750ml of juice. If you just shred them the yield available to the yeast will be even less.

Add that to 20l of regular shop juice and you won't even notice it unless its something special like crab apple juice which has a bunch of tannins and stuff in it. 

Cheers
Dave


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## damoninja (11/12/13)

Airgead said:


> If you look at it in terms of volume, a kilo of apples will give you maybe 600-750ml of juice. If you just shred them the yield available to the yeast will be even less.
> 
> Add that to 20l of regular shop juice and you won't even notice it unless its something special like crab apple juice which has a bunch of tannins and stuff in it.
> 
> ...


I'm only doing a really low volume in the first place, I was going to juice them them squeeze them in a small press. 

What I might do later on down the track is do a few super small batches only a few litres and add some bought juice and some of my smashed apples and see how they go. 

In this case however I'll play it safe and stick with the juice and hops


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## damoninja (12/12/13)

So I've decided to go with citra, considering dry hopping the crap out of it and throwing 25 grams in.

Considering my final volume is only going to be like 8-10 litres, a sip of this should be like OMGWTFHOPS yeah?


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## Ninegrain (12/12/13)

Maybe, but likely in a good way as Citra is delicious! :icon_drool2:


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## hoppinmad (12/12/13)

I did a hopped apple cider a few months ago using Aldi apple juice, fermented with SO4, dry hopped with 2g/L Bramling Cross. Came out really nice but probably a little subdued in hop presence. My feeling is that ciders may require a higher dry hopping rate due to the lack of any previous aroma/flavour additions that you would normally see in beer. The Bramling Cross flavours were very nice however, with a citrusy/lemon character that worked well with the apple flavours. Will definitely be making another batch for the summer months.


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## damoninja (12/12/13)

A half tonne of Citra it is then. I found a few vids on youtube where people have added 55 grams to 19 litres and not had a real big hop presence. That would be about the same as me adding 23g to my volume, so I might bump it up to 40 or 50 grams. 

I'm also thinking of doing a 60 minute boil with something like 5-7g of cascade to add a small amount of bitterness.


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## damoninja (1/1/14)

It was delicious!

Total hit people loved it. Didn't tell anyone what to expect, they couldn't figure out what they were tasting in this elusive cider.


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## bromio (20/1/14)

HoppinMad.When did you stop ferment,I have started at 1051 and will stop at 1015 as not to go too dry.planing on 1g/litre of galaxy for the last 2days of ferment.whats your thought


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## Pickaxe (21/1/14)

Any steeped grain suggestions? How do you guys reckon a half kilo of crystal steeped would go? Worth it? 
Appreciate the feedback on adding crushed apples to bought juice - there's a good thread suggested o hit of preshafruit in a store bought juice cider.
I'm hitting a cider with black tea, cinnamon, cloves, ginger and maybe zest - haven't fit any hops on hand though. Spoke long with manticle about Graff, that's why the interest in crystal additions. More subtle though. 
I need to jump in, will report on results. Total cider noob. Drinker, not brewer, yet.




pickaxe


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## Pickaxe (21/1/14)

That being said - would a floral hop be suitable? Don't know which hop though? Or a darker raisin grain? Guess I'm talking Graff now?

pickaxe


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