# Lost a few batches already to what I think is astringency. Is my Coron



## loco88 (12/5/15)

So I'm at my wits end, I thought I'd solved my problem but early taste tests indicate I haven't. I BIAB and my timeline with this setup goes like this:

Beer 1: Bought milled grain from LHBS. what was meant to be a 7ish% Saison ended up something like 3%. Brewhouse efficiency was at 49%
Got a Corona mill to try and tweak. Mucked around with it and some Pils malt and found a setting to get 69%.
Beer 2: Undrinkable. What I think is astringency but I can't be sure as I'm unfamiliar with actually tasting that sorta stuff.
Beer 3: Same god-awful flavour.
Beer 4: Adjusted the mill so that it wasn't grinding so finely, figured I'd sacrifice some ABV in order to make it drinkable. Early taste tests (it's not yet carbed) suggest that it's better, but that flavour is still there.

So basically I'm thinking that it's me or my mill. Seems like when I widen the gap on the mill way too much grain goes through untouched, but I don't know what to do. Also I use 5-Star 5.2 because I don't have the equipment or knowledge to be mucking about with my water chemistry.

Any suggestions for how I can figure this out? What can I do? Has anyone been brewing successfully with a Corona mill? I have the unmilled grain at home for an APA but I really don't want another batch of utter shit. Should I just buy my grain milled and accept whatever efficiency that gives me?


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## antiphile (12/5/15)

I wouldn't be too surprised if you're dealing with 2 separate problems:
1. A problem with your mash efficiency and/or brewhouse efficiency; and
2. An infection of some sort causing the "god awful taste"

In terms of 2, one of the most common ones I've seen (and had the misfortune to experience) is acetobacter infection. The prime symptom of this one is a vinegar taste and smell. Does that sound familiar? If not, any more hints as to taste/smell/appearance etc? Does it happen in the FV or after being bottled/kegged?


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## loco88 (12/5/15)

antiphile said:


> I wouldn't be too surprised if you're dealing with 2 separate problems:
> 1. A problem with your mash efficiency and/or brewhouse efficiency; and
> 2. An infection of some sort causing the "god awful taste"
> 
> In terms of 2, one of the most common ones I've seen (and had the misfortune to experience) is acetobacter infection. The prime symptom of this one is a vinegar taste and smell. Does that sound familiar? If not, any more hints as to taste/smell etc?


Not sure what else I can do regarding 1; mashing typically at 66C and hoisting the bag up to drain for 10 while the water comes up to a boil and then squeezing the bag a little bit to get some excess out. I can accept less-than-great efficiency, but under 50% feels like too much.

I did think infection after beer 2, so I stepped up my sanitation game (I had a CFC which I converted to an immersion chiller as not being able to see what the wort was touching didn't sit right with me) and the only other thing I can think that's relevant is there's no smell to go along with this taste that I can detect. The fermenter & chamber smells normal for Beer 4, and Beer 3 smelled fine in the glass. I will do another test with Beer 3 from the bottle to confirm though if you think it's still a possibility.


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## mxd (12/5/15)

A few Q's

Brewing experiance (kits for years years and there all great or the first 4 i've attempted I mentioned in first post)

Details of the BIAB equipment please (i.e 40 ltr urn...)

Do you chill or no chill 

Oxengenate or notwh

at yeast and quantity 

Fermentation temperature control do you have any ?

Recipe, where/how, what efficiency did you try for ?

As a starting point for a first BIAB I would look at a simple 4.5 kg of grain, 60% efficiency 30ish ibu. Get it milled from LHBS and tell them it's a BIAB


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## mxd (12/5/15)

another option pop into the next melbourne brewers club meet with the beer and get some opinions of what is wrong with it.


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## loco88 (12/5/15)

mxd said:


> A few Q's
> 
> Brewing experiance (kits for years years and there all great or the first 4 i've attempted I mentioned in first post)
> 
> ...


Experience: 2 kits, 2 ciders, 2 successful BIAB beers and 3 failures.
Equipment: 40L urn
Chill with an immersion chiller
No oxygenation, just shaking a bit
Yeast: A mixture. Some pitched with 1 vial of White labs, some pitched with starters (I eventually made a stir plate) some with US-05. The most recent was with US-05.
Temp Control: Had an STC-1000 wired to the fridge, 2 batches ago I implemented my BrewPi.
Recipe: Mostly clones, one of the failures was Dr Smurto's Golden Ale. Aimed at 70% efficiency.

Happy to take my remaining bag of grain to the LHBS, that's my next step if my process doesn't show anything obvious, as that will for sure tell me if it's the milling or not. I just don't want to waste it if it isn't!




mxd said:


> another option pop into the next melbourne brewers club meet with the beer and get some opinions of what is wrong with it.


That sounds like a good option, I don't think I've described the flavour well at all...


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## fraser_john (12/5/15)

loco88 said:


> Not sure what else I can do regarding 1; mashing typically at 66C and hoisting the bag up to drain for 10 while the water comes up to a boil and then squeezing the bag a little bit to get some excess out. I can accept less-than-great efficiency, but under 50% feels like too much.
> <snip>


No mash out at 76-78c?

Raising the temp before pulling the bag out will help dissolve more sugars into solution. Squeezing "can" help extract tannins too.

If your beer is reasonably clear when chilled, it is reasonably unlikely to be astringency caused by tannins as the tannins would help cause a protein haze.


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## loco88 (12/5/15)

fraser_john said:


> No mash out at 76-78c?
> 
> Raising the temp before pulling the bag out will help dissolve more sugars into solution. Squeezing "can" help extract tannins too.
> 
> If your beer is reasonably clear when chilled, it is reasonably unlikely to be astringency caused by tannins as the tannins would help cause a protein haze.


Didn't really see the point, thought the mashout was to stop conversion for AG brewers, figured the easiest way for a BIABer to stop conversion was just remove the bag. I feel like I read that somewhere as well, could be wrong. I wouldn't be against trying a mashout, anything seems like an attractive option right now as long as it brings good beer!

Hmm, it's actually not clear. The first 2 disasters were definitely quite cloudy, the third was slightly less so but not clear by any stretch.


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## earle (12/5/15)

Mashout is also helpful in BIAB to 'loosen' the sugars so they drain out more easily. This is helpful in BIAB because we don't sparge.

There are opinions on both sides about squeezing releasing tannins. I'm firmly on the side who don't believe this. I squeeze as firmly as I can but without the mechanical advantage of saucepan lids or the tennis raquet squeezer someone posted here. I've never noticed tannin astringency in my beers nor has anyone else who has tasted my beers, this includes local beer club and case swaps so reasonably educated opinions.


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## Bribie G (12/5/15)

Tannins are more of a pH thing that can occur from oversparging; commercial breweries such as Coopers sparge sensibly but then squeeze the feck out of their mashed husks using hydraulic "mash filters" that resemble arrays of enormous BIAB bags to get the last possible drop of wort out and there's no astringency problem.

I'd be looking at infection, personally.

I usually mashout (BIAB 40L urn) but fairly lax, often pull the bag at mid 70s.


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## indica86 (12/5/15)

Yeah, infection.
Squeeze the bejeesus out of the bag, some many unused sugars in there.
I do a bucket in bucket 4.5 litre sparge thing while draining over my urn and get 75% + effieciency.


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## jphowman (12/5/15)

It could be the 5.2
I've heard people that have stopped using it because it made their beer too minerally. What sort of water are you using?


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## anthonyUK (12/5/15)

I'd also go with a pH issue. That 5.2 cannot possibly work for all water. Do a batch with a known water source e.g bottled/ro if necessary to eliminate this.


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## Black n Tan (12/5/15)

Five Star 5.2 won't do a cracker fro soft Melbourne water so save your money. You are better off using 1-2% acidulated malt for pale beers. This is from BrunWater

"SPECIAL NOTE: Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water". Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5. That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity. But, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement). While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable range. The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows no effect on pH. Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water. High sodium content is undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer. Proper acidification of mashing and sparging water will produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than the use of 5.2 Stabilizer."


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## GalBrew (12/5/15)

I found that 5.2 ruined my mash efficiency and did not bring my pH into the desired range of 5.2-5.4 using Melbourne water.


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## labels (12/5/15)

You really need a bunch of experienced brewers to taste your beer to sus out the problem because - as you stated - you're not sure what you're tasting. So that IS the starting point. From there it should be an easily solved problem. I'd take the earlier advice and go to a Melbourne meeting, beer in hand and get as many experienced brewers as possible to sample it.

There's no point in learning the hard way when you don't have to, from my experience brewers are a mighty helpful bunch especially with new brewers or those experiencing problems.


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## mxd (12/5/15)

ok, chilling what temp do you get down to then pitch at (as your starting I would stick with dry (just my opinion  ) ?

What temp are you fermenting at.

What was the kit stuff like ? the same flavour or normal kit flavour ?

Would you consider buying a fwt and just try to fement that to see if the issue is you sanitation/fermenting ?

As you chilling try to get some good o2 in there, could be a shower head/vegie strainer when pouring into fermenter then a big shake/stir.

If you efficiency is low and you don't add some DME or LME then your balance is way out and it will be as bitter as anything. 

Melbourne brewers is the last Wednesday of the month in Boronia so not too bad a trip.

Did you buy ground grain ? if so how old is it ?


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## Blind Dog (12/5/15)

My first step would be to eliminate the 5.2, my second to get experienced Brewers to taste it; it's hard to describe flavours accurately . I'd also be tempted to brew half batches until I had the problem sorted

My gut (and its a big gut) says infection as other than the 5.2 theres nothing you've yet described about you process that differs from what many others do successfully.

(Edit, clarity)


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## indica86 (12/5/15)

Going by Brun water my mash is well above the 5.2 and works well.
The way to go is make beer, Learn what to do. Mash grains, boil wort, add hops. Ferment the fucker.
THEN play with other stuff..


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## tugger (12/5/15)

Whirlfloc?


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## spog (12/5/15)

I wouldn't bother or worry about brewhouse efficiency yet, I haven't got a clue about mine as I'm not bothered with it.
Get your process and problems sorted first then advance from there, Labels was right with his suggestion of getting other brewers to sample and give advice etc.


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## loco88 (12/5/15)

Geez you blokes are onto it, gone for a couple of hours...

Alright, I'll fill in the gaps where I can.



earle said:


> Mashout is also helpful in BIAB to 'loosen' the sugars so they drain out more easily. This is helpful in BIAB because we don't sparge.
> 
> There are opinions on both sides about squeezing releasing tannins. I'm firmly on the side who don't believe this. I squeeze as firmly as I can but without the mechanical advantage of saucepan lids or the tennis raquet squeezer someone posted here. I've never noticed tannin astringency in my beers nor has anyone else who has tasted my beers, this includes local beer club and case swaps so reasonably educated opinions.


I am also of the belief that it doesn't do anything. The first AG beer I did was a Saison and I pulled it out at 66C and squeezed and that ended up being an ace beer.



Bribie G said:


> Tannins are more of a pH thing that can occur from oversparging; commercial breweries such as Coopers sparge sensibly but then squeeze the feck out of their mashed husks using hydraulic "mash filters" that resemble arrays of enormous BIAB bags to get the last possible drop of wort out and there's no astringency problem.
> 
> I'd be looking at infection, personally.
> 
> I usually mashout (BIAB 40L urn) but fairly lax, often pull the bag at mid 70s.


Don't say that  If it's infection then I actually have no idea where in the process it is happening, anything that touches it post boil is well and truly StarSan'd.




franks said:


> It could be the 5.2
> I've heard people that have stopped using it because it made their beer too minerally. What sort of water are you using?


Melbourne tap water for the first 2 shithouse batches, the same water through an activated carbon filter for the last one (and the porter in the fermenter now)



anthonyUK said:


> I'd also go with a pH issue. That 5.2 cannot possibly work for all water. Do a batch with a known water source e.g bottled/ro if necessary to eliminate this.


Happy to go back to regular tapwater for a batch as I've definitely done 2 successful beers with it before.



Black n Tan said:


> Five Star 5.2 won't do a cracker fro soft Melbourne water so save your money. You are better off using 1-2% acidulated malt for pale beers. This is from BrunWater
> 
> "SPECIAL NOTE: Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water". Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5. That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity. But, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement). While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable range. The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows no effect on pH. Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water. High sodium content is undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer. Proper acidification of mashing and sparging water will produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than the use of 5.2 Stabilizer."


Hmm. That seals it, next batch i'll definitely skip the 5.2.



GalBrew said:


> I found that 5.2 ruined my mash efficiency and did not bring my pH into the desired range of 5.2-5.4 using Melbourne water.


I only have some dodgy paper strips to test pH so ironically enough, the 5.2 was so I didn't have to worry about my water...



labels said:


> You really need a bunch of experienced brewers to taste your beer to sus out the problem because - as you stated - you're not sure what you're tasting. So that IS the starting point. From there it should be an easily solved problem. I'd take the earlier advice and go to a Melbourne meeting, beer in hand and get as many experienced brewers as possible to sample it.
> 
> There's no point in learning the hard way when you don't have to, from my experience brewers are a mighty helpful bunch especially with new brewers or those experiencing problems.


Looks like that meeting isn't far from me either. I might have to inflict this rubbish on others.



mxd said:


> ok, chilling what temp do you get down to then pitch at (as your starting I would stick with dry (just my opinion  ) ?
> 
> What temp are you fermenting at.
> 
> ...


Chill to 30C, in the fridge until 20C, pitch.
Fermenting at 20C for 2 weeks, slowly ramp to 22C to clean up, cold crash then bottle.
The kits were the Coopers cans, so probably not really relevant to my problems now (although they caused me to step my game up to all grain!)
What is a fwt, why do I need it, and where can I get one?
I'm now wary of adding new equipment to my process, one more thing to cause infection...
Hadn't thought of that, thanks!
I'll definitely head down, I can't/won't brew until I've got this licked.
The grain is unmilled and about 2 months old that I have on hand, the rest I had bought and milled myself (except that first Saison)


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## loco88 (12/5/15)

Blind Dog said:


> My first step would be to eliminate the 5.2, my second to get experienced Brewers to taste it; it's hard to describe flavours accurately . I'd also be tempted to brew half batches until I had the problem sorted
> 
> My gut (and its a big gut) says infection as other than the 5.2 theres nothing you've yet described about you process that differs from what many others do successfully.
> 
> (Edit, clarity)


Definitely doing points 1 & 2, and 5L batches has been on my mind because this is killing me. 



indica86 said:


> Going by Brun water my mash is well above the 5.2 and works well.
> The way to go is make beer, Learn what to do. Mash grains, boil wort, add hops. Ferment the fucker.
> THEN play with other stuff..


I did that, and then I wanted more toys... then it went to shit. Somehow.



tugger said:


> Whirlfloc?


Yep, last 10-15mins when I remember. Some have had it, some haven't.



spog said:


> I wouldn't bother or worry about brewhouse efficiency yet, I haven't got a clue about mine as I'm not bothered with it.
> Get your process and problems sorted first then advance from there, Labels was right with his suggestion of getting other brewers to sample and give advice etc.


I'm willing to go back to forgetting efficiency and preparing to buy 9kg of grain for a 5% ABV if it means good beer!


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## mxd (12/5/15)

fwt is fresh wort, if you go to keg king or brewers den (I'm only thinking of the closest) this is an all grain "kit" my thought here is ferment this (as it's all you need to do) if you have the issue it's your fermenting/sanitising issue not your brewing (for me all my issues in the early batches were fermenting (o2, temp, quality/quantity)


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## mxd (12/5/15)

I plan/hope to drink brew on satdy or sundy (ii'm down to 180 ltr's in cubes so it's getting tight) if I am and you want to bring a urn over we could brew together (it would be a no chill/cube)


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## loco88 (12/5/15)

mxd said:


> fwt is fresh wort, if you go to keg king or brewers den (I'm only thinking of the closest) this is an all grain "kit" my thought here is ferment this (as it's all you need to do) if you have the issue it's your fermenting/sanitising issue not your brewing (for me all my issues in the early batches were fermenting (o2, temp, quality/quantity)


I might give that a go if this porter turns into a disaster, I'm still not totally convinced that it isn't my crush. There's usually a reasonable amount of flour in there, so my steps would be:
Get LHBS to crush my grain and brew with that

If it's crap: It's me. Buy a cube of wort and try that. 
If it's good: Find a milling solution.
If the cube is crap: Something in my fermenting is causing infection. Start again.
Does that sound reasonable?


mxd said:


> I plan/hope to drink brew on satdy or sundy (ii'm down to 180 ltr's in cubes so it's getting tight) if I am and you want to bring a urn over we could brew together (it would be a no chill/cube)


I play sport on the weekends and the season has started, part of the reason why my preference is to mill my own grain, so that I can buy a couple of recipes worth unmilled then crush & brew at will. Thanks for the offer, if things are still disastrous I may take you up on it when bye week rolls around...


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## mxd (13/5/15)

sounds good to me


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## maltmadness (13/5/15)

I am having similar issues. Last 2 batches of pale ale have been mediciny, cloves. All hop character obliterated. And ,now I recognise it, I realise I have had it in other brews!!! Reading in John palmers 'how to brew' , in the -is my beer ruined-section of course. Caused by chlorine based sanitisers reacting with phenols produced by the yeast. These chlorophenols have a very low taste threshold. Cure- rinse with boiled water after sanitising! That's my new regime.


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## maltmadness (13/5/15)




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## maltmadness (13/5/15)

That's easier[emoji51]


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## anthonyUK (13/5/15)

A pinch of Campden powder in your brewing water will remove any chlorines/chloramines in seconds.
Daft not too.


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## spog (13/5/15)

mxd said:


> I plan/hope to drink brew on satdy or sundy (ii'm down to 180 ltr's in cubes so it's getting tight) if I am and you want to bring a urn over we could brew together (it would be a no chill/cube)


Down to 180 litres ! You poor bugga.


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## loco88 (22/5/15)

So I thought I'd update y'all, seeing as I wouldn't be able to get down to the Melbourne Brewers this month, I took a sample pack into the Brewers Den and asked Pete to taste them for me and tell me what was wrong. A lot of you said infection. He tasted my most recent batch, and told me that the flavour I was tasting was the medicinal flavour. I was expecting medicinal to mean like Demazin or something like that, turns out it's more like the medicine cabinet at your grandparents. Good to know.

Then he tried my brown ale, which is about 4-5 months in the bottle by now. It was *significantly* worse than when I tasted it, which confirms that there was some little bugger growing in there. He had to spit it out, and I don't blame him.

So the biggest suspect right now is my fermentor, going to give that the best soak and scrub I can, tap included, and probably my ball valves as well (they're really the 2 biggest consistencies between my batches) and hope for the best. I'm so relieved to finally know, as this mystery had really put me off, and can't wait to get back into it.

I couldn't bring myself to dump my porter in the FV last night though; I tasted it and while it is definitely infected, I could still taste that beautiful smokey and roasty flavour, I'm spewing because I reckon that was a top beer! I'm going to get my shit right and make it again. Back on the horse!

Thanks for all your help!

tl;dr: Y'all were right, infection. Time to super clean & rinse. Bummed to lose beer, super excited to make more.


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## 1974Alby (22/5/15)

my 2c...ditch the infected fermentor and start again with a brand new one!


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## fraser_john (22/5/15)

Yup, think Albanian is right, a new fermenter (cube) is cheap, cheaper than losing batches of beer. Ditch it and start fresh. Pull apart ball valves, soak in PBW or something similar, then sanitise thoroughly (each and every time you brew) and finally watch your brew processes carefully after the boil, bugs fall down, so make sure you don't leave any opening uncovered.


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## TheWiggman (22/5/15)

Cheers for the follow-up, makes it handy for others in your situation.


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## Danscraftbeer (22/5/15)

or consider giving up the BIAB technique and go with batch sparging. Esky and keggle.
I looked into the different methods before starting the AG quest and didnt like the look of it.
I'm never surprised to see poor efficiency results using that method.
I get efficiency levels that indicate the grains are more potential than Beersmiths standard calculations.
Close to 100% mash efficiency and 82% brew house, total efficiency. I sparge the crap out of the grain,
mixing and turning over the grain each sparge. Starting with a larger pre boil volume. Boil for longer.
Very pleasing results considering the amount of sparging with untreated Melbourne water throughout the whole process.


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## sponge (22/5/15)

Just be wary of over-sparging.

To OP, for the price of a new fermenter, it's not worth the time, effort and money to find out you've lost another batch. Might as well eliminate one variable.


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## Danscraftbeer (22/5/15)

sponge said:


> Just be wary of over-sparging.


Yep, I am wary of over sparging but also experimental enough to push it to see what the negatives are.
So far I haven't discovered what the negatives of over sparging are.
Getting final run offs as low as 1.008. Getting more bang for my buck for sure. :chug:

What I don't like is throwing away malty sugars that haven't been extracted properly left in all that grain probably enough to feed a starving village, etc.

Waste not!


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## wereprawn (22/5/15)

Danscraftbeer said:


> or consider giving up the BIAB technique and go with batch sparging. Esky and keggle.
> I looked into the different methods before starting the AG quest and didnt like the look of it.
> I'm never surprised to see poor efficiency results using that method.
> I get efficiency levels that indicate the grains are more potential than Beersmiths standard calculations.
> ...


BIAB isn't the problem. I do a mashout, sparge once with 7 ltrs of mashout temp water and boil wort for 90 min to produce 20 ltrs. Efficiency, mid to high 80s. Same as many BIAB users. Hear of plenty of efficiency probs from other systems too.


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## KevinR (22/5/15)

Look at were you are brewing. 
Infection can live in porous surfaces and when disturbed float on dust particials,as the brew cools it will condense and draw in air (and the dust particials)
Starsan ect but the surface tention of the liquid will not let it get to the bottom of scratches and when conditions are favorable the infection can bloom. If you are using plastic as suggested in other posts toss the cube.
Partrs of your setup can store nasties. If you have valves pull them appart,i spent money on sanitary valves,pulled them appart and they had crap inside.Threads are bad, they trap crap in the bottom of the v.
I'm not sure how efective no rinse sanitizers are on wild yeast strains.
I have little experience, this is my 15th brew and of the first 10 lost half.
Anything that would fit was disassembled and put in the pressure cooker for 30min (ihave read some spores can surive boiling water)
Other stuff went in the oven over night. I bleach the daylights out of the brew area and keep it damp with bleach solution untill the brew is safe in the fermentor,I figure if it's wet it can't make dust and transport nasties. Bleach my brew stuff, rince in fresh water then starsan. Don't forget to rinse as chlorine (bleach ) +acid (starsan)=chlorine gas (was used in WW1 as a chemical weapon )
A good starter helps by out breading nasties. Brews that take 2,3 days to take of are inviting infection to get a foot hold.
I also started fermenting in glass . Don't know if it helps, but it's sure is cool watching the ferment churn and being able to watch the process.
Feel free to contradict any of this as I'm more than happy to learn and don't want others put on the wrong path.
Cheers
Kev


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## Rocker1986 (23/5/15)

BIAB is not going to cause low efficiency just because it's BIAB. It's also not going to cause weird flavours just because it's BIAB. Squeezing the bag does not extract astringent flavours (tannins), it's an old wives tale that's somehow snowballed into one of these myths that everyone seems to believe in.

I regularly get between 70% and 75% brewhouse efficiency on my system. It's not the "lofty heights" of 80 odd %, but it's consistent which I think is far more important than getting big numbers, within reason of course. If you're going under 60% regularly then I'd be looking at some fixes for it. But, with consistently hitting between 70-75, I'm happy with that. The beers all turn out great, and being consistent makes it a hell of a lot easier to design recipes, and to me that's the whole point of working out the efficiency in the first place, is it not? h34r:


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## ebyelyakov (27/5/15)

A note on sparging -- 77C at PH 8 (I'm in Sydney - Prospect Reservoir) will extract lots of tannin. 1 ml or 20% phosphoric acid will bring you to 5.4. Check on Brun's water website.

I prefer phosphoric since this is the stuff you get in your wort anyway when Phosphorus from the malt joins with sulphites in your water.. One of the reasons gypsum facilitates PH drop.


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## indica86 (28/5/15)

I pour 4 1/5 litres of water from the hot tap over my BIAB bag. This is at 8.3pH and I do not extract tannins.


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## hellbent (28/5/15)

I was having similar trouble for a while and I finally tracked the trouble back to the ball valve from my kettle, seems that the assembly had been tightened too much causing the washer inside to squash right up and when I pulled it apart there was gunk and shit stored up everywhere and reeked something shocking.... got a new ball valve and the beer has been great ever since... Just a thought


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## MHB (28/5/15)

Apart from the infection problem that I hope you have solved.
I am wondering why your efficiency is so low, there are a couple of possibilities that come to mind: -

Temperature, how are you measuring temperature? you need a decent thermometer that you can trust, always stir and measure your strike water before mashing in. Water layers with Hot floating on Cold and if you aren't careful the temperature at any one point can be very different to another.

Really bad water chemistry can cause low efficiency, make sure you have enough Calcium and that the pH isn't too far out, if your water has a lot of carbonate you will need to acidify, I am a big fan of Lactic Acid, it will buffer more effectively than will mineral acids.

If you are sparging remember to acidify your sparge water.

Mark


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## wynnum1 (28/5/15)

A new study into _lead_ contamination in North-East _Tasmanian_ drinking _water_ has revealed high levels of _lead_
That proves that drinking water may not be drinkable when the water is tested they know that is going to be tested and can do everything correctly the week before .In _Tasmanian they blamed the pipes for the lead .If you live in wrong area the water could be crap chlorination is not all the same _.What does it cost to buy RO water or get some good rain water.


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## loco88 (28/5/15)

hellbent said:


> I was having similar trouble for a while and I finally tracked the trouble back to the ball valve from my kettle, seems that the assembly had been tightened too much causing the washer inside to squash right up and when I pulled it apart there was gunk and shit stored up everywhere and reeked something shocking.... got a new ball valve and the beer has been great ever since... Just a thought


I went through hell trying to get the weldless fitting watertight, so this wouldn't surprise me. I'll pull it apart tonight and see what I find...


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