# Excerpts From A Conversation With A Lbhs Owner



## bum (28/5/09)

Was buying some tins of goo (I try to buy everything else from sponsors but the tins are a bit heavy for the post, imo) and asked which wheat malt extract he would recommend. "well, we only have one"...then he went on to show me the two he had. One of these was just in 500g plastic take-away containers that he'd filled himself. Uh, no thanks. Bacchus & Barley it is then. He went on to ask what I wanted it for. Told him it was for an extract wit. He says "well you need one of these and a wheat kit (goo)" and I explained (twice) that I had some hops and was going to add my own bitterness/flavour so just wanted two tins of the extract to which he replies "Can you even do that?" WTF, right? Then he advises me to be careful as there are two distinct kinds of hops "bittering hops and flavouring hops" - ok, gotcha, do they only come in tea bags? I understand that not everyone wants to do more than bung a kit in some water, sprinkle on the magic beer powder then drink it in 2 weeks (to be honest, I'm really not much further advanced than that myself) but surely a LHBS owner should try to be a little more aware of what else is possible - even if only so he can sell more stuff. If there was another LBHS convenient to me I'd be going there after this.

To his credit he did look at me strangely when I also bought a Thomas Coopers IPA tin and relaxed when I said "That's for a different brew".


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## cdbrown (28/5/09)

I guess the LHBS owner isn't actually a homebrewer - it's just a business to him.


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## brettprevans (28/5/09)

bugger. just wrote a whole long post and accidently deleted it. cbf retyping it.

basic idea - he's talking out his airlock.


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## bum (28/5/09)

cdbrown said:


> I guess the LHBS owner isn't actually a homebrewer - it's just a business to him.



He brews kit stouts in the shop. If you wanna know something about kit brewing he's got answers (they aren't all good but at least he doesn't get confused)

I know, CM2, I just can't work out why he wouldn't flick through a book or a magazine or something to see what else he could be selling to people.

[edit: punctuado]


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## chappo1970 (28/5/09)

Bum find a good HBS FFS even if you have to travel that bit further. Seriously your brewing will thankyou for it! If that's the advice your getting I shudder to think of the way he treats his stock.

You live where? SE Melbourne surely there's something better?

Chappo


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## bum (28/5/09)

The next closest is owned by the same mob and the next after that is in a place that's a nightmare to get to. All I want from him is tins of goo (and even then only the ones that Big W don't carry near me) - I get yeast/hops/DME/spec grains from sponsors. 

I also know a good place to go online for brewing advice (not telling where - its a secret).


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## chappo1970 (28/5/09)

bum said:


> The next closest is owned by the same mob and the next after that is in a place that's a nightmare to get to. All I want from him is tins of goo (and even then only the ones that Big W don't carry near me) - I get yeast/hops/DME/spec grains from sponsors.
> 
> I also know a good place to go online for brewing advice (not telling where - its a secret).




Well that's a Bummer Bum! HA! I made an unitentional funny! :lol: 

Chappo


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## HoppingMad (28/5/09)

Sounds like you've found yourself at one of those 'Brew and Grow' stores? Did the guy try and sell you a bunch of lamps to grow "strawberries" too? :lol:
Heard they like to push the little tubs of extract and have very few options when they do. 

SE Suburbs - Greensborough HBS and Brewers Den Boronia get thumbs up. Pete at Brewer's Den is an award winning HB'er. Brewcraft Richmond is good for convenience purchases but there's mark-up on price - one of the guys loves to talk but does have good knowledge. Other Brewcrafts you can take or leave (stay away from Heidelberg - had bad experiences there).

Or take a road trip to Grain and Grape and see how the serious homebrewers get catered for - a great store with people who know what they're talking about - worth the trip over the Westgate bridge if you haven't been.

Hopper.


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## Cocko (28/5/09)

Bum,

Go see Dave at Greensborough Home Brewing mate.... Service, knowledge and he will even crush your grain when you go AG!!


NB: I said when not if!


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## brettprevans (28/5/09)

Chappo said:


> Well that's a Bummer Bum! HA! I made an unitentional funny! :lol:
> 
> Chappo


dont quit your day job Chaps! 



bum said:


> The next closest is owned by the same mob and the next after that is in a place that's a nightmare to get to. All I want from him is tins of goo (and even then only the ones that Big W don't carry near me) - I get yeast/hops/DME/spec grains from sponsors.



nothing wrong with that Bum. I used to go to brewcraft if i desperately needed something that i forgot to order or wanted liquid yeast (which i now get shipped also). so long as you know the deal with what people do and dont know your laughing and brewing well.



Cocko said:


> Go see Dave at Greensborough Home Brewing mate.... Service, knowledge and he will even crush your grain when you go AG!!


Cocko - he's in south east melb not north east melb. the boronia HBS would be closer for him.


edit: Hoppingmad - Brewers Den Boronia is the one i was trying to think of. or at a pinch brewcraft in oakleigh.


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## bum (28/5/09)

Thanks for the suggestions, fellas. I'll check them out when I get the chance. Good to not have to find out the hard way!


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## Pollux (28/5/09)

This is part of why I like to walk into a HBS with a shopping list in my hand and just hand it to the person behind the counter...

That said, my HBS of choice when I am actually doing face to face purchases is Absolute, and Pat actually knows his shit and then ESB (purely as their grain/hop prices are significantly cheaper). 

That said, the reason for the list is just to stop me buying extras.... <_<


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## bowie in space (28/5/09)

Hey Bum, +1 for G&G in Yarraville. I go there because it's closer than anywhere else, but I think you need to make a big shopping list to make it worthwhile. It's better than your LHBS and brewcraft stores. However, some of the AG talk goes over my head and I think they could take more time to explain technical things a bit better, but overall prices are fairly good. Storeowners need to be mindful of educating the average punter at their own pace, whereas some just assume you know everything about brewing and forget that newbies may be walking into their store.

Bowie


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## flattop (28/5/09)

Use the Brewers den if you can, Peter there is pretty good with advice, it's on Dorset Rd near the supermarket. Brewcraft in Eskay Rd Oakleigh isn't bad but has less variety of grains etc and is definitely more expensive. I brewed a Dr Smurto's using grains etc from both stores and saved close to $10 at Boronia.
Cans of goop are ok from Big W but sooner or later you will need more specialist gear, and frankly i would be using yeast from the LHBS anyhow.


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## Leigh (28/5/09)

Where you live Bum, South East suburbs covers a pretty large area...

Personally, I go to Brewcraft in Richmond, the talkative bloke is starting to dabble in partials, and will be trying AG, but really knows his stuff. I use Narre Brew Supplies to walk in, grab what I want, and walk out. Have also gone to G&G when I'm up for the 1 1/4h drive...

Sometimes I send the missus to the Brewers Den because its down the road from her work.

Otherwise mail-order is also good. Mail ordered from both G&G and Craftbrew.

We really do need a decent homebrew shop somewhere in the SE!


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## manticle (28/5/09)

bowie in space said:


> Hey Bum, +1 for G&G in Yarraville. I go there because it's closer than anywhere else, but I think you need to make a big shopping list to make it worthwhile. It's better than your LHBS and brewcraft stores. However, some of the AG talk goes over my head and I think they could take more time to explain technical things a bit better, but overall prices are fairly good. Storeowners need to be mindful of educating the average punter at their own pace, whereas some just assume you know everything about brewing and forget that newbies may be walking into their store.
> 
> Bowie




Likewise newbies need to be prepared to pipe up and say 'actually I'm not at that point yet. I'm still getting my head around a few things'.

I am getting my head around many things and I always find I get better, clearer advice if I openly admit I don't know everything and need some help.

Only once have I been inundated with too much info from someone in an HB store who wouldn't let me get a word in edgeways (not even an 'I'm not quite following you, could you explain that process a bit clearer' type word).

By the way - I'm not at that point yet. Most AG tech stuff (beyond what a single infusion mash is) is above my comprehension at the moment. Step by step. Experts will shut up if you politely suggest you're interested but would like not to be overwhelmed. They know you'll always come back for more.


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## Cocko (28/5/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> Cocko - he's in south east melb not north east melb. the boronia HBS would be closer for him.



Umm.... Yeah but.... Umm....


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## InCider (28/5/09)

My local HBS owner in Caloundra, Les,is a diamond. If he knows the answer to a question, he'll tell you, as he does brew himself. If it's anything as advanced as steeping grains, he's told me to see Bindi or Screwtop! 

And bless his cotton socks he even came to the 2006 Xmas in July Swap at Bindi's :icon_chickcheers:


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## hatchor (28/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Bum,
> 
> Go see Dave at Greensborough Home Brewing mate.... Service, knowledge and he will even crush your grain when you go AG!!
> 
> ...




and Dave's style is just second to none, laid back, good knowledge, easy to deal with, doesn't get pi$$ed off if you hang around for an hour or 2 and talk homebrew etc etc etc. I am yet to come across a store like it. He will even show you his setup and doesn't presume you know more than what you do. He talks on your level and is part of the reason I went from non-brewer to AG in 6 months. AND if you're lucky you can do all the above over a couple of pots of Dave's finest........ cheers :icon_chickcheers: 

Having said that, the distance could be a limiting factor for those from the south east... but if you're ever out that way....


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## svyturys (28/5/09)

> Other Brewcrafts you can take or leave (stay away from Heidelberg - had bad experiences there).


Hoppingmad might have a point here.

To start brewing I bought two coopers setups.
Decided to to do one as an ale and the other as a lager. Went to the abovementioned store to buy some S-23. Friendly service, the guy gave me a bottle of his own brew to taste. I took it home. When I tasted it I almost gave up homebrewing..it was "WTF is this?" 
Having bought the coopers stuff and S-23 I had to continue ...with good results. Went back a couple of times, service OK...not sure about the advice...and prices...(gee, forums are great) wandered around...other HBS's were worse...much worse.... till I eventually got to Dave at Greensborough...only a few weeks ago...what a relief!
I've travelled far and wide to find a non internet, in your face, old school service and I would recommend for anyone to do it. (Not that the internet stuff is bad in any way but it's so nice to do business face to face with someone who shares your passion.)

Cheers


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## bum (28/5/09)

flattop said:


> Cans of goop are ok from Big W but sooner or later you will need more specialist gear, and frankly i would be using yeast from the LHBS anyhow.



Yeah, been using better yeasts for a little while. In fact, just put down a brew with my first liquid yeast. Been playing with spec grains for a few brews too. Actually, something of a funny story about that. Was steeping some carapils yesterday but got sidetracked by DrSmurto and Bizier banging their heads against K&K brewer shaped wall and let it boil over onto the hotplate. Was pretty annoyed at myself - but it smelled great. I recommend you all give it a go!



Leigh said:


> I use Narre Brew Supplies to walk in, grab what I want, and walk out.



That is the third place I mentioned above. The one time I bothered heading there he was closed for 2 weeks! Can't hold that against him of course. Is he much chop?



manticle said:


> Likewise newbies need to be prepared to pipe up and say 'actually I'm not at that point yet. I'm still getting my head around a few things'.
> 
> I am getting my head around many things and I always find I get better, clearer advice if I openly admit I don't know everything and need some help.



I've always been more afraid of looking like an idiot by pretending to know what I'm doing than looking like an idiot trying to find out how to do it properly.


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## haysie (28/5/09)

Leigh said:


> Otherwise mail-order is also good. Mail ordered from both G&G and Craftbrew.
> 
> We really do need a decent homebrew shop somewhere in the SE!



I reckon Leigh is on the right tram.

S.E Suburbs covers a large area, Boronia/Brewers Den is good but not if you want a pack of Wyeast a kilo of Carared, he may have restricted Whitelabs though. I reckon he should stock more, been at that address for 20 years now and he still wont sell me a kilo of carared cararoma or caraamber.

Narre Warren, sick of hearing "it doesnt sell out here", its good for a bung, a pack of dried yeast and a changeover of the gas bottle. Certainly useless for the partial or all grainer.
Oakleigh, the worst brew store I have ever visited. 

So for me its the hour across to G&G once every 2-3 months. They are the best in Melbourne by miles.


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## bum (28/5/09)

svyturys said:


> I've travelled far and wide to find a non internet, in your face, old school service and I would recommend for anyone to do it. (Not that the internet stuff is bad in any way but it's so nice to do business face to face with someone who shares your passion.)



I agree completely but if I can find out the info I want from other people outside of the store (i.e. you guys, thanks) then I'm happy to deal with a faceless entity.

Having said that I think Ross is a pretty good ambassador here for his business and if you ever consider using an online supplier you could do much worse.


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## bum (28/5/09)

haysie said:


> S.E Suburbs covers a large area,



Been pointed out a couple times now so I should address it - I'm deliberately not saying _exactly_ where I am now because I don't want to name and shame the business in question. The guy seems nice enough and does try to be helpful, I'm just a little confused as to how he can have a shop and not want to know more about what his customers might want - even purely from a business point of view.

Sounds like I'll definately have to make the trek over to G&G at some point.


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## scrumpy (28/5/09)

hey bum

i had a very similar experience in un named HBS the other week.. I went into the joint and explained to the fella that the ingredients i was buying was for one of my last extract brews and was gonna embark in all grain brewing....you shoulda seen his face "your just looking for hassles giving that a shot"

Its sad to see these dudes trying to deter brewers from really learning the art of brewing beer from scratch. I have and will never have a bias opinion on brewing methods weather its all grain or extract brewing, I just like to see people who really enjoy beer giving making it at home a shot. Its up to the indervidual person on how much time and effort they want to put into their hobby!

peace!


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## haysie (28/5/09)

name and shame Bum,

I have told Brewers Den they should supply more specialties, thats after they show you all the awards Peter won at Beerfest. GooD on him! :beerbang: 

A few of us have a saying for the fella at Narre Warren,,,,,, Misery Guts, never fuuuuckinng happy and not very knowledgable.

Arnt you the customer?

All in all you cant beat the above sponsors. FULL STOP....


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## bum (28/5/09)

scrumpy said:


> i had a very similar experience in un named HBS the other week.. I went into the joint and explained to the fella that the ingredients i was buying was for one of my last extract brews and was gonna embark in all grain brewing....you shoulda seen his face "your just looking for hassles giving that a shot"



Funny you should mention that. When I was explaining what I was making I said I knew the extract would make my wit darker than it should be and that I should be mashing "but couldn't be arsed" and he said "I did that once and you don't want to go down that road!" Found that kind of odd - it seemed like saying "You want to spend a shitload of money on gear here to set up for that? Save your money, kits are just as good!"


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## daemon (28/5/09)

It seems that it's about 50/50 for finding a good HBS for advice and service, not sure I know many other industries that bad!! I don't have a good local for what I want to do either (AG brewing), but the good news is that it's very easy to order from a website (ie site sponsors). Although the postage seems to increase the cost, also factor in what it'd cost for fuel to travel to the HBS. Even if you say it was only $5 worth, it's only going to cost a few more to get it couriered.


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## manticle (28/5/09)

scrumpy said:


> hey bum
> 
> i had a very similar experience in un named HBS the other week.. I went into the joint and explained to the fella that the ingredients i was buying was for one of my last extract brews and was gonna embark in all grain brewing....you shoulda seen his face "your just looking for hassles giving that a shot"
> 
> ...



It's on a par with walking into a hospitality shop to buy a stockpot for your own stocks and having the guy try to sell you some campbell's real stock instead. Beef stock's too much work mate!!

I don't undersand the attitude (did get it once, the very first time I asked about how one goes about making beer from scratch). Fortunately my LHBS is pretty good and very helpful. Anything they don't have I can either order in with notice or get from Grain and Grape (my limited dealings with them have been very positive thus far).


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## bum (28/5/09)

haysie said:


> name and shame Bum,



Nah, it's not like he was malicious or completely counter-productive. I'm not interested in trying to take food out of the guy's mouth. Of course if I can direct my money to more helpful people then I will.



haysie said:


> All in all you cant beat the above sponsors. FULL STOP....



My experience backs that up completely, just I'm not so sure buying kits/liquid extracts via postage is the smartest move in the world on my part.


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## svyturys (28/5/09)

I've noticed the hesitation of people naming the LHBS with which they have had less than adequate dealings with. For a business to survive it requires feedback. A big business might ask customers to fill in forms. These forms are anonymous. So, if any LHBS that is named here, and has a customer problem as Bum has had, it would be of advantage for the business to be aware of its shortcomings. It would only help the business.
It would be good if those traders kept in touch with the forums. It would help the entire homebrewing community as a whole.
Cheers


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## bum (28/5/09)

I've got no problem with that concept, svyturys, but the time for that would have been to his face - this would just be bitching behind his back (which I know I am doing anyway but if he's not named directly then I am comfortable with that). But yeah, I'm not doing anything to help future customers by keeping mum.


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## haysie (28/5/09)

svyturys said:


> It would be good if those traders kept in touch with the forums. It would help the entire homebrewing community as a whole.
> Cheers



Yes and no, there are "traders" whom are inactive for very good reason. They still run great business, their just not here telling you how great they are.


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## svyturys (28/5/09)

Haysie,
What I meant was that the trader should just read the forum, not join as such. Then they would be aware of what the community is looking for.
We have many posts urging people to drive across the city to get to a good LHBS. If I was running a business I would want to know why people are driving past my front door to get to an inconvenient location. Why can't I get that business?
Cheers


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## fcmcg (28/5/09)

Thank god the Grain and Grape is only 3 mins down the road
However....I have to be good and and not go too often to keep SWMBO happy
(I'm like a kid in a lolly shop...i get excited ...and must buy something lol)
Ferg


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## beerDingo (28/5/09)

+1 for Dave in Greensborough!!!!

Tried a bunch others, and he has been the most helpful hands down.


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## Barry (29/5/09)

I know the blokes at The Brew Shop appreciated the feed back on the forum about slow deliveries when they were getting use to the business. They really have tried to get the orders out on time. Let the business know in a positive way if you have problems. If they do not listen or understand then move on.


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## Leigh (29/5/09)

Most of the HBS's don't even know this forum exists!

The following are REVIEWS of HBS's, not bitching or back stabbing...

As Haysie said, if you go to Narre, you walk in, grab what you want (just those little things like yeast or a can of goo or some sanitiser) and get out...no point having a conversation beyond "Hi". To his credit, yeast is in a fridge (but check the date on the packet).

I know a lot of people talk highly of the brewers den, we used to catch the bus out the front, so used to spend some time in there in our late teens...20 years on it hasn't changed, and the kits he sells my missus are never what I asked for (I supply her with a list that she gives him)...I use the goo, but it's a pain! Give me what I asked for! ...and his website is shit...he put a little flyer in my kit 2 1/2 years ago to join his website, I'm still waiting on confirmation!

Oakleigh has two brewshops (maybe even three if my mate is right)...never been to either, but have heard they are both crap.

Brewcraft in Richmond also has the yeast in a fridge (for around 12 months now).

Bum, more interested in location to send you in the right direction, not for identifying the HBS.


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## Trent (29/5/09)

I think that although it kinda sucks that you cannot get the info you want at you LHBS, everybody is probably missing the bigger picture. I would hazard a guess and say that less than 1% of all the home brewers in Oz are all grainers, maybe only 1% including specialty grain steepers.
I am fortunate enough to have an excellent "L"HBS (its 2 hours away), but I completely understand why some owners dont know much - mainly because they dont have to. And I think that you will find that there is more money to be made in selling cans of goo than there is in selling grain, so it is better economically for them to sell cans of goo.
They are probably more than knowledgable for 90+% of their customers, and the fact that they arent as passionate about it as we are doesnt mean they are no good, it just means that they are looking after the majority of their customers, rather than the minority.
By all means, go somewhere that does sell grains and hops, and has better info for you, but realistically, it doesnt make it a shitty HBS. Would you stop going to the local take away for your fish and chips because the owner doesnt know how to make French cuisine? Only if you wanted French cuisine, I would think. The more into brewing you get, the less HBS's will cut the mustard for you, as you will eventually get to know more than most of the owners.
We are the (very minor) minority, and we need to remember that occasionally. Full points to Bum for not "naming and shaming" a bloke that most of his customers would likely find very knowledgable.
All the best
Trent
Edit grammar


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## mash head (29/5/09)

Reading your fist post reminds me of a time when all I knew about mashing came from Dave Millers book and some other sites on the inter net (it took quite a while to get to this site for me). I walked into a lhbs of a large chain and told him that I wanted to get into mashing, I got a blank look, Beer from scratch I said, Oh he said and showed me bags of pale malt and bags of crystal and that was their range one variety of pale and one variety of crystal with absolutely no specs for the grain. Unfortunatly I bought some of this grain (I didnt know better) and its still haunting me as a month ago I was out of main ingredients and turned to this old grain keen to throw a brew down formulated a recipie and went for it .i am thinking of pouring the lot down the shitter but will wait til the old man comes over caus he drinks stout and that old crystal has imparted some weird stout like after twang. Any way point being hbs owners should know more about their clientel and not just cater for distillers. I am very happy with finding Beer belly on this site they have helped me alot
Cheers Greg :icon_cheers:


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## tcraig20 (29/5/09)

greg simons said:


> Any way point being hbs owners should know more about their clientel and not just cater for distillers.



Unfortunately, HBS have to follow the money - they have to feed themselves and keep the lights on just like the rest of us. They push kits and distilling gear because that is where the money and customer base is. I can understand them not really wanting to help the occassional bloke who comes in wanting to do all grain, because all they do is undermine their customer base. Holding an encyclopedic knowledge of processes and techniques that you dont cater for makes little sense.

Even if they were interested in catering for all grainers, it simply wouldnt pay. There are too few of them, and you actually need to carry quite a lot of stock to make it worthwhile (I'd imagine somewhere in the order of 15+ hop varieties and a dozen or so bulk malts). Even then, the margin probably isnt there to justify the expense and hassle of catering for an insignificant minority. The reason places like Craftbrewer and Beerbelly do so well is because they cater specifically to their niche, and have the advantage of the internet. I doubt that either of them would survive without the market access the internet provides. Its simply not something you can expect from every shop you walk into.


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## bum (29/5/09)

Trent, I agree with everything you said but I would like to remind you that we're talking about a guy who didn't know you could make beer by adding hops to extract - both of which are products he already sells. I don't doubt for a minute that fully catering to the AG market would make him go under. His stock is not the issue - he (sorta) had everything I went in there for so in that regard he's kicking goals. My issue is that he didn't even know you could brew extract without a kit. Surely if he knew that he'd be able to tell a customer who came back and said that a kit wasn't what he expected how he can tailor things more to his taste without making things all that more complicated than kit brewing. Then the guy walks out with a hop addiction and only one local source. Customer is happy and owner is still making a buck (which is obviously of great importance). I do understand that not every LHBS can or should be G&G or Craftbrewer.


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## Trent (29/5/09)

I must admit, Bum, that selling hops and un-hopped extract, the bloke really should know what they are for. I would have to assume that he sells the unhopped extract as an alternative to sugar/dextrose, and the hops as a tea bag for flavour or aroma. He really SHOULD know a bit more about the process, but sadly, most dont really care too much, as there arent that many people right into brewing (and thats not just another "there arent many of us" argument, its just that most people's eyes glaze over when you start talking about brewing, and doubtless this bloke would be one of them).
Maybe next time you go in there, tell him that you can brew extract without kits, show him the Morgans website (that is where I got all my first ever extract recipes), maybe he could print them off and use it to sell more Morgans un-hopped extract, and pre-packaged hops. He would probably thank you for it - alternatively he may think you are a beer snob that "thinks" he knows alot :lol:, but if that is his attitude when you are trying to help him, bugger him 
I know that my LHBS does up recipes that include a kit, some unhopped extract, and hop tea-bags for flavour/aroma, cause that is what most people want. Extract brewing, with hops and a small boil is too much hassle for the majority. Maybe, though, take him in some of your extract wit, and show him what can be done with just extract and hops, you may help him understand alot about brewing over a single glass of beer.
Anyway, good onya for not outing the guy, he is obviously living in the dark ages :lol:
Trent


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## mash head (29/5/09)

I guess with hind sight I probably expected too much from said shop but as a newby who had only read a book on brewing I didnt expect to walk in to a shop and have more idea of the process than the retailer and walked out some what deflated. If I had some one with all the answers then and there I probably would have spent shit loads to set up and would have been mashing a year earlier. Can probably put it down to poor reasearch on my part. As it was on that first mission to the hbs I still spent a couple of hundred on kits and bits.
Unfortunatly for me the lhbs is a couple of hundred dollar ferry ride and a few hours driving admitadly I didnt just go to town to visit hbs but still got home scratching my head.
Am far more confident with things now thanks to this web site.
Cheers Greg


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## HoppingMad (29/5/09)

svyturys said:


> Hoppingmad might have a point here.
> 
> To start brewing I bought two coopers setups.
> Decided to to do one as an ale and the other as a lager. Went to the abovementioned store to buy some S-23. Friendly service, the guy gave me a bottle of his own brew to taste. I took it home. When I tasted it I almost gave up homebrewing..it was "WTF is this?"
> Having bought the coopers stuff and S-23 I had to continue ...with good results. Went back a couple of times, service OK...not sure about the advice...and prices...



To be honest haven't been back to Brewcraft Heidelberg for years so I need to be careful paying out on the guys - but that said your post confirms that little has been done to improve things there.

Agree that these people need to google the names of their stores occasionally and see what people are saying about them and other stores here and on other forums. I'm sure retailers hate reading threads like these but there are some real truths here about how to draw in more customers.

Haysie, haven't asked Pete about specialty grains much but know brewers who phone him two days ahead and he has it ready for them when they get there, so would have thought he does it - not as immediate as G&G so get your point.

Was reading this and my Craftbrewer sachel with yeasts and fresh galaxy rocked up in a post sachel :beerbang: 
+1 for Ross and Craftbrewer!

Hopper.


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## Leigh (29/5/09)

JamesCraig said:


> Unfortunately, HBS have to follow the money - they have to feed themselves and keep the lights on just like the rest of us. They push kits and distilling gear because that is where the money and customer base is. I can understand them not really wanting to help the occassional bloke who comes in wanting to do all grain, because all they do is undermine their customer base. Holding an encyclopedic knowledge of processes and techniques that you dont cater for makes little sense.



Aye, their be some logic in your post...but might I add, that said LHBS do not get custom from people introduced to brewing by I, I says "keep yeself clear of little man in Narre 5km away 'cause he be not helpful...more, better help is at other HBS 40km away"

Fair enough that there may not be money in everybody supplying AG, and fair enough that they don't necessarily have to know anything about it, but their is no need to bag what you don't understand and drive away not just that customer but also all those that speak to them.

The best advertising is the unsolicited kind, in the same way as the worst is also the unsolicited kind.


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## HoppingMad (29/5/09)

Leigh said:


> Fair enough that there may not be money in everybody supplying AG, and fair enough that they don't necessarily have to know anything about it, but their is no need to bag what you don't understand and drive away not just that customer but also all those that speak to them.



I think most retailers are looking for the simplicity. A kit is easy to move, restock, has a decent margin and requires very little face time technically. When you get into extract, partials and AG the variables increase and it can become a headache for a sales person with everyone wanting to trouble-shoot their brews and get opinions across the counter or on the phone.

Kits are easier for inexperienced customer service people to sell also. Good advice on extract, partials and allgrain takes years of expertise. That's why the better brew stores - with John from Grain and Grape, Pete from Brewers Den, and Dave from Greensborough all have well seasoned campaigners selling the stuff.

Hopper.


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## PostModern (29/5/09)

HoppingMad said:


> Kits are easier for inexperienced customer service people to sell also. Good advice on extract, partials and allgrain takes years of expertise. That's why the better brew stores - with John from Grain and Grape, Pete from Brewers Den, and Dave from Greensborough all have well seasoned campaigners selling the stuff.
> 
> Hopper.



This is a good point. You need to find the brew shop that is right for you, not necessarily try to convert an uninterested proprietor just because he's local.


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## flattop (29/5/09)

I remember calling a shop in Oakleigh for a fairly standard grain bill and they didn't even recognize the name of most of the grains... Ale malt for example....
Ordered the same gear from Boronia and it was crushed and ready the next day


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## Screwtop (29/5/09)

Would I invest good money in a business that relies on 90% of it's income from an illegal activity, not on your nellie. Plus if it is ever legalised the full range of essences etc would then be available from the supermarkets, shaky future.

Screwy


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## manticle (29/5/09)

Trent said:


> By all means, go somewhere that does sell grains and hops, and has better info for you, but realistically, it doesnt make it a shitty HBS. Would you stop going to the local take away for your fish and chips because the owner doesnt know how to make French cuisine? Only if you wanted French cuisine, I would think.



That's a really bad analogy. If I went to a fish and chip shop looking for bouillabaisse I would be an idiot who went to the wrong shop - like going to the milk bar to buy a mop or a car yard to buy a push bike.

However going to a home brewing shop looking for homebrewing supplies and possibly good advice on homebrewing is not a big stretch. Sure AG people might be in the minority and sure the business might run great selling tins. However sneering at people who'd like to improve, suggesting it's not worth the bother and giving blatantly crap advice is something ANY store owner would do well to avoid. It's not about who does what or who sells the most, it's about taking pride in what you do. A good, knowledgeable brew shop owner can sell tins of goo to those who want it (as long as THEY don't look down their pointy noses at happy k'kers) AND advise those wanting to improve their brews. It's the difference between giving a toss for every customer who comes in or just getting by day to day.

Nothing wrong with a bit of pride.


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## flattop (29/5/09)

Look i understand that K&K probably gives a bigger turnover, i'm not sure if it gives a better margin but a decent grain bill would usually come in at a higher price than a medium range kit... I try to keep my costs down, harvesting yeast etc but i churn yeasts every few brews as i don't want infection or to breed a poor strain.

5K of mixed grains, 50gms hops and a packet of yeast = approx $30, can of goop and dex, $20. I don't know about margins but obviously the grain has to be crushed involving labour costs.


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## manticle (29/5/09)

I agree you have to consider turnover of stock as well as margins.

However if that's the case, don't sell it and tell your customers why you don't sell it. Don't look at them like the'yre an alien because they have the idea of adding their own hops. Don't sell packs of grain if you don't know what it is or what it does.

Better yet - if you don't know then find out.

Bad coffee is sold all over the country and most people are probably happy with it. Doesn't mean I have to sympathise with the cafe owner running a business that I have no interest in frequenting, just because his/her life is hard or most people are satisfied with crap. I have holes in my shoes but I still want good coffee and good advice on grain brewing.

Stop me when I no longer make sense.


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## Pollux (29/5/09)

Ahhhh, coffee analogies....


Now I understand. I am a coffee snob more so than I am a beer snob.


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## bum (29/5/09)

I hate coffee. Someone do me an arthouse cinema analogy.


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## manticle (29/5/09)

Most people will happily watch Owen Wilson make an arse of himself but someone into film promotion should still know who David Lynch and Lars Von Trier are.


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## flattop (29/5/09)

Yes David Lynch..... psychosexual issues... 
Much like your LHBS advice it can make beer but gives off flavors if sampled too young...
Oops wrong director  that was woody

Seriously guys if you don't find what you need shop around... 

I still reckon ppl like Ross that get involved in the industry they work in are the buzz, he could just sell cans of goop but instead he gets on here and gives advice for nicks...
Maybe he gets orders from the sponsors link but he could just write a cheque for that... 

*Disclaimer, never met the bloke, don't own the company and only bought from him once, but he offered me free advice and his phone number for nothing....


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## mash head (29/5/09)

i like the post about pride of work but I think your on a tangent now and made the point that needed to be made. Any one can palm off products without a care but the retailer who cares and is interested in what their clientel are into is ultimately the one who will end up with the business. Unless the clientel have no aspiration of grandure. My 2c worth Greg


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## bum (29/5/09)

greg simons said:


> Unless the clientel have no aspiration of grandure.



I just wanna make some beer, mate.


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## mash head (29/5/09)

I only ment aspire to grater things than a can.


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## Renegade (29/5/09)

Screwtop said:


> Would I invest good money in a business that relies on 90% of it's income from an illegal activity, not on your nellie. Plus if it is ever legalised the full range of essences etc would then be available from the supermarkets, shaky future.
> 
> Screwy



You really think 90% of the business for many brew shops is in distilling equipment & ingredients ? Its the second time in this thread that this has been mentioned.


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## Trent (29/5/09)

manticle said:


> That's a really bad analogy. If I went to a fish and chip shop looking for bouillabaisse I would be an idiot who went to the wrong shop - like going to the milk bar to buy a mop or a car yard to buy a push bike.
> 
> However going to a home brewing shop looking for homebrewing supplies and possibly good advice on homebrewing is not a big stretch. Sure AG people might be in the minority and sure the business might run great selling tins. However sneering at people who'd like to improve, suggesting it's not worth the bother and giving blatantly crap advice is something ANY store owner would do well to avoid. It's not about who does what or who sells the most, it's about taking pride in what you do. A good, knowledgeable brew shop owner can sell tins of goo to those who want it (as long as THEY don't look down their pointy noses at happy k'kers) AND advise those wanting to improve their brews. It's the difference between giving a toss for every customer who comes in or just getting by day to day.
> 
> Nothing wrong with a bit of pride.



Bad analogy?!? I was wondering if someone would pick that up :lol: but it was the best I could think of at the time. But at least the take away is a food shop, just as a home brew shop is a... um... beer making shop? I would say that you wouldnt get good advice at most home brew shops if you want to make great beer. thats what makes good HBS's so valuable. For most people all grain _isn't_ worth the bother, it doesnt mean its crap advice, it is just their opinion. Again, 99% of his clientele would agree that mashing isnt worth the hassle, even if they were to try it for themselves. He obviously has home brewing supplies, so there is nothing wrong there, and he probably has great K+K advice, but doesnt know a thing about extract or AG. I wouldnt call it lack of pride, or not giving a toss - he just doesnt need to know the more detailed aspects of brewing, and therefore doesnt learn them - it isnt crap advice in his opinion. He probably thinks he is saving another person from the hassle of buying all this extra equipment on something that 99% of people would find isnt worth the hassle.
At the end of the day, we are a very small minority, and we shouldnt expect everybody else to be as passionate or pedantic as we are about beer making.
Or thats my crap advice, anyway.
All the best
Trent


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## manticle (30/5/09)

I can understand it goes beyond the limits of some shops and the owners and/or staff but if you can see someone else is interested or excited then point them in a direction where they can find what they're after.

Another analogy - man walks into a book store or library which has limited stock and a limited budget, looking for some literature on the book of hours. Instead of looking at the man blankly or pretending he's an idiot, the librarian uses google, finds out what he's on about and says 'oh no we don't have that here, but you might have more success checking out the State Library of Victoria'.

The only reason I say this is the first time I went to a shop outside Kmart for brewing supplies, I was curious about how beer was made. I had no idea - all I did was open can, throw in BEII, warmed prebittered goop and stir in yeast. 

I was prepared to spend around $100. I explained I was just making kits from k-mart but was interested in the process. The guy looked at me like I was a goldfish that had jumped out of the tank, suggested I could buy a couple of things to make my brews better and intimated that grain based brewing was such a pain in the arse that I wouldn't/shouldn't go to the effort just for 23 litres. I didn't ask that. I asked how it was done. Simple question from a curious customer met with a disparaging reply from a non caring retail staff member. 

Don't bother mate. You'll need to buy a brewery

Anyway I ended up buying an airlock and a grommet for about $4. 

My current LHBS on the other hand, sees between $40 and $120 leave my wallet every time I go in because no matter how many dumb questions I ask, they're happy to spend time answering and not making me feel like a twonk.


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## Bribie G (30/5/09)

Manticle has hit the nail on the head, it really boils down to whether the owner has a genuine passion for the craft. I spent most of my working life in Australia dealing with retailers (I've been an Allens Sweets rep, a sales manager with Rothmans etc etc) and there's unanimous agreement within the noble guild of commercial travellers that whilst many people in small retail business are there because they are passionate about supplying a particular good or service and want to build a thriving and interesting business (e.g Young Ross) - the majority, sadly, are there because they have 'bought themselves a job' for one of two reasons:

They have been made redundant and have a payout
They are, (nearly always due to ego issues) totally bloody unemployable in any mainstream occupation

{{{{Off topic: Grumpy Rant. Go to any smaller shopping complex where they have a lot of small Mum and Dad businesses such as coffee shops, delis, little dress shops, beauty salons etc etc then walk round the back to their service and parking area and count the Lexus, Saab and BMWs. This isn't because the businesses are doing well, it's because having bought themselves a job they are now important people and deserve to lease the best car possible. The passionate business owners however are more likely to have a Kia parked out the back.}}}

Back on topic - you can tell the passionate retailers by their personal participation in the craft. BABBs for example has 2 retailers as members and they aren't there to drum up sales, they don't need to. One of them I didn't even realise was a business owner until a couple of meetings ago and conversations are all about styles and methods, and never ever about what's on special at the store.


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## haysie (1/6/09)

South East Melbourne.

A reference to 1% of homebrewers are all grainers? where did that come from? What a load of shite.

I would like nothing more than the conversation and knowledge, of a LHBS. 

That wont happen until they educate themselves. i.e Brewcraft, Narre, Frankston, Brewcraft. < Slackass

Until then, G&G and CB get my nod and business. Brewers Den should be the be all and end all of the south eastern, unfortunantly their not.


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## Trent (1/6/09)

haysie said:


> South East Melbourne.
> 
> A reference to 1% of homebrewers are all grainers? where did that come from? What a load of shite.
> 
> ...


1% of home brewers are all grainers is a load of shite? IIRC, I said it was a guess, but realistically, go and spend a day at a local HBS and see just how many all grainers walk through the door compared to people that buy kits. Add on all the hundred/thousands that buy kits at supermarkets. Looking over AHB, around 3 years ago, I would have said that there were probably only about 250 AG brewers on the forum. Maybe 1% is a bit of a stretch, but it would be well less than 5%.
Expecting All HBS owners to be passionate about brewing and especially AG is just ludicrous and possibly even a touch arrogant. They are home brew supply shops, only some are home brew experts. And I maintain that 1% is a reasonable estimate on AG vs kit brewers.
Maybe wecould all open our own home brew shops, so that every HBS is staffed with passionate, educated staff.
Or that's my uneducated load of shite opinion. 
T.


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## haysie (1/6/09)

Trent said:


> 1% of home brewers are all grainers is a load of shite? IIRC, I said it was a guess, Maybe 1% is a bit of a stretch, but it would be well less than 5%.
> Expecting All HBS owners to be passionate about brewing and especially AG is just ludicrous and possibly even a touch arrogant. And I maintain that 1% is a reasonable estimate on AG vs kit brewers.
> Maybe wecould all open our own home brew shops, so that every HBS is staffed with passionate, educated staff.
> Or that's my uneducated load of shite opinion.
> T.



Well goodonya Trent. Did your facts n figures make for better shopping eperiences`s? Or is that Forster and you are referring to the OP of South East Melbourne.
3 years and only 250 all grainers??? another "where did you get that figure from"?


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## bigfridge (1/6/09)

haysie said:


> Well goodonya Trent. Did your facts n figures make for better shopping eperiences`s? Or is that Forster and you are referring to the OP of South East Melbourne.
> 3 years and only 250 all grainers??? another "where did you get that figure from"?



Haysie, I would agree with Trent - from my 30 years involved in the hobby he is pretty much on the money.

It is a pity that you haven't seen fit to offer any facts to support your POV.

Dave


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## haysie (1/6/09)

bigfridge said:


> Haysie, I would agree with Trent - from my 30 years involved in the hobby he is pretty much on the money.
> 
> It is a pity that you haven't seen fit to offer any facts to support your POV.
> 
> Dave



Dave, pretty much on the money? a $ each way statement! What are your facts being a retailer? I dont think the thread was really interested in the robustness of the Newcastle brewing fraternity rather the non exsistence of South East Melb.


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## dr K (1/6/09)

Trent is so far off the mark...
1% is probably on the max side.
Pretty simple bit of research . 
AHB is without a doubt the biggest HB forum in Australia, bulk buys, from a retailer, are big things, especially considering the price differential (for serious AG'ers). So add up the total number of grain bulk buys on this site over the last 12 months, assume that 80% of AG brewers do not participate in these, buy their grain in 4 kilo lots from the LHBS anyway.What have you got, 10 tonne in bulk buys maybe, using the 80% rule thats 50 tonne or about what, 12500 brews @$25 a kit and bits....$312500 pa ..turnover only. subsistence for a shop if even that , factor in that every Coles and every Woolworths and most small chains have Home Brew Kits taking up valuable shelf space (and use by dates) and these places have 50% minimum of market share (again conservative, there are very few if any other groups of retailers whose combined share would be even 20% of WollyColes).
So the grain component is $312 500, thus the total pie is 100 times that (at 1%) pull out WoolyColes and you have a max of 50 only just viable HB shops in Australia.
Yes know LHBS sell lots of other stuff as well and this increases turnover, but the bulk is, and has to be, basic ingredients, I need malt every time I brew, I don't need a new fermentor, or a new keg or mash-tun or boiler.
I reckon AG is under 1/2 % of HB in Australia.

K


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## discoloop (2/6/09)

> every time I brew, I don't need a new fermentor, or a new keg or mash-tun or boiler



Same here, but I somehow always manage to walk out of the LHBS with some new bit of kit!


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## leiothrix (2/6/09)

Slightly off topic - where to the Wollongong brewers shop? There's two shops that I know of, one at Albion Park and the other Woonona. Asking for sacks of grain, one told me that they don't sell pale malt and offered carapils instead, and the other had a price that would have been cheaper for me to freight the sack down from Ross in QLD.

Back on topic though - i don't know how someone can open a niche/speciality shop and know stuff all about what they're selling. How do they expect to stay in business if they don't know their own product? I can understand staff not caring about the business as it's not their money, but if you own it it is.


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## haysie (2/6/09)

Trent said:


> Maybe wecould all open our own home brew shops, so that every HBS is staffed with passionate, educated staff.
> Or that's my uneducated load of shite opinion.
> T.



Do you run a homebrew shop Trent?
What you say  is eactly how G&G run there show, they are knowlegable enthusiastic and so they bloody should be, or otherwise you do what our great deputy prime minister recommends Walk with your Feet :lol:


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## svyturys (2/6/09)

I'd like to draw a parallel here.
I used to manage and also own a music shop.
We would move Marshall amps and Fender strats down to beginners stuff.
Because we chose what beginners stuff we stocked in our store we were just as enthusiastic about that stuff as any other stock we had. It didn't matter whether it was made in China or elsewhere we would be enthusiastic in showing anybody how you could get the most out of a little $100.00 amp.

Cos we had chosen to stock it we were aware of what it could do and couldn't do. We sold quality at the beginners end and at the professional end. Here's the crunch...the staff were more obsessed with learning how to get the most out of our "kit and kilo's" than mucking about with the top end stuff. ( cos that's what they used personally and new inside out.)

We appreciated that if the customer walked away with value for money they would come back...and they did. They would move from "Samick" to "Ibanez" and then to "Gibson". They would be with us for years cos we were enthusiastic about the "kit and kilo" guitars we sold. If someone wanted us to service a "cheapie" we would put just as much effort in it as we would a top end guitar. 

Best comment would be "I took the guitar to school and the teachers thought it played like a thousand dollar guitar"

This is the equivalent of a customer in a LHBS saying, "That kits and bits recipe and advice you gave me made the best beer I ever tasted."

That customer will buy whatever you recommend from that moment. All because you are interested in beer making at ALL levels and bother to keep up with whatever is happening.

It shouldn't matter whether the staff are into AG or not. They should know the product they sell and be able to get the most out of it.

In good music shops staff talk about the products most of the time because they are enthusiastic. That's what I would expect from any specialist store, including LHBS's.

Cheers


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## MHB (2/6/09)

By some of the analogies being bandied around, every corner take-away should be able to offer 4 star dining on the off chance that someone walks in wanting a silver service meal. The takeaway down the road from me is great, they will never get a Chef's Hat - doesn't stop it being a great takeaway. 

It takes a fairly large population base for it to be worth the investment in AG to pay off; you need enough customers to turn over the stock. In Newcastle, Australia's 6th biggest city, it's not really profitable, but over the last couple of years it's finally not costing me money to support the AG community 

Look at the sponsors, 1 from Melbourne, 1 from Sydney, 2 from Brisbane (50% of the home brew made in Australia is made in QLD) 

I have 3 ton of malt (60 varieties) and over 45 hops in stock, not because I get rich of it but because this is what I am passionate about. 



MHB


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## manticle (2/6/09)

The above analogy is almost identical to one made earlier and just as silly.

People are complaining about a home brew store offering bad advice, out of date produce, not caring about customers' (EVERY customers') wishes, not knowing the produce they sell and worse- advising people that anything they (the shop owner) don't know about is not worth the bother.

It is not even remotely close to walking into a fish and chip shop looking for profiteroles or a bresse pigeon stack with morelle mushroom glaze. That's just plain and simply stupid.

It's a home brew shop where one might expect homebrew products and advice. It doesn't say 'homebrew shop but only for people interested in kits that we sell'. 

If they don't sell AG stuff fine but they shouldn't try and convince you that wanting to go AG (or extract or whatever) is a waste of time or sell you yeast that's 3 years old or not know the malt they have in stock or tell you you HAVE to have a tin of pre-bittered goop in order to make a pilsner.


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## schooey (2/6/09)

For me, the answer lies here... We used to have 3 home brew shops in this city. One closed it's doors not long ago. I can only speak from limited experience, because I only walked into the place twice, and the experience wasn't that great, not like the OP's because I had very very little brewing experience but I still knew the guy was all about the sale, not about the beer.

So now we are left to two choices. When I walk into one shop, I get excellent advice and service from someone who is really passionate not only about beer, but about the science behind it, the art of perfecting it.... yatter yatter, I don't want to blow wind up anyone's arse.. his grain is well stored, his hops are vacuum sealed and refrigerated, a huge selection of liquid yeasts, pretty much everything. I go there as often as I get time to, if not to buy anything, just to chew the fat and learn a thing or two, not only from him, but from other customers. most of the times I'm there I 'll be there for an hour or longer, In that hour I reckon anything from 2 - 15 customers will walk through the door. I watch and listen some more. Crack my grain and let him sell kits and bits to the punters..... oh yeah... more often than not I never seem to have one of these people line up behind me to crack grain... never thought about it until now

At the other shop in town, he sells grains in round chinese containers in 250g batches. His hops are sitting out on the shelf where they have been for the last 2 years. yeah he is reasonably passionate about his beer, more so about his spirits I'd hazard a guess... and when I see customers walk into his shop, nearly all of them buy kits; I'm talking 99% of them, and nope, it;s not a quiet shop, I'm sure he's doing ok. I reckon if I asked him about the differences between conversion with a 1 degree temp difference in the Beta Amalyse phase his eyes would just glaze over... But it's not his game, and I can see that, I get it, and it's not his fault if that's not the market he wants to be in. I still see a loyal tribe of happy customers come and go from his shop. I reckon the figure of Kits and bits/Spirit Makers to AG brewers would be in the vicinity of 95:5 out of 100. Sometimes I think this AG thing not only makes people beer snobs, declaring anything commercial as 'megaswill', but it also inflates their self imposed importance level in the food chain...

At the end of the day, if you're not happy with the shop, don't go there. But it's not his fault he doesn't tailor to all your needs. Sure his morals may be questionable if he is happy to provide people with questionable info for a profit gain, but if we're going to headhunt every retailer that does that in this country there sure is gonna be a big vacuum at the end. Your options are open, just buy somewhere else, reduce the stress level nad have another beer... Life's too short


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## bum (11/8/09)

As an entirely un-required update, I found a LHBS yesterday that seems somewhat better suited to my needs (despite being a Brewcraft rep). They keep their yeast in a fridge (well inside use by date) and sell non-teabag hops. Bit pricey but will do in brew related emergencies. 

Even more heavily focussed towards the growing side of things than the original LHBS I mentioned. Who knew tomatoes were so popular down this neck of the woods?


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## WarmBeer (11/8/09)

bum said:


> As an entirely un-required update, I found a LHBS yesterday that seems somewhat better suited to my needs (despite being a Brewcraft rep). They keep their yeast in a fridge (well inside use by date) and sell non-teabag hops. Bit pricey but will do in brew related emergencies.
> 
> Even more heavily focussed towards the growing side of things than the original LHBS I mentioned. Who knew tomatoes were so popular down this neck of the woods?


What suburb, Bum?

I'm also "SE Melb", so would be good to know where else to go (without naming names, of course)


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## bum (11/8/09)

Don't know the name of the place but it is in Carrum Downs. On that part of Rutherford/Lathams rd where it is hard to say which it might be. On the freeway side of the roundabout. Can't miss it, really, just look for the words "grow" and "hydro". Can't vouch for the advice given there but at least I didn't have to explain what US-05 was like at the first LHBS.


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## Mantis (11/8/09)

Whenever we go to Melb I detour to G&G on the way home to get bags of grain etc. Great shop


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## WarmBeer (11/8/09)

bum said:


> Don't know the name of the place but it is in Carrum Downs. On that part of Rutherford/Lathams rd where it is hard to say which it might be. On the freeway side of the roundabout. Can't miss it, really, just look for the words "grow" and "hydro". Can't vouch for the advice given there but at least I didn't have to explain what US-05 was like at the first LHBS.


Yup, I know it. It's near the father-in-law's house.

Will keep in mind for next time I'm down there.

Cheers mate.


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## HoppingMad (11/8/09)

bum said:


> As an entirely un-required update, I found a LHBS yesterday that seems somewhat better suited to my needs (despite being a Brewcraft rep). They keep their yeast in a fridge (well inside use by date) and sell non-teabag hops. Bit pricey but will do in brew related emergencies.
> 
> Even more heavily focussed towards the growing side of things than the original LHBS I mentioned. Who knew tomatoes were so popular down this neck of the woods?



Good to see you found a good spot bum. Yeah those 'tomatoes' are popular. A lot of green thumbs out there! :lol: 

Cheers & Beers,

Hopper.


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## bum (8/1/10)

bum said:


> As an entirely un-required update, I found a LHBS yesterday that seems somewhat better suited to my needs (despite being a Brewcraft rep). They keep their yeast in a fridge (well inside use by date) and sell non-teabag hops. Bit pricey but will do in brew related emergencies.
> 
> Even more heavily focussed towards the growing side of things than the original LHBS I mentioned. Who knew tomatoes were so popular down this neck of the woods?



News just to hand from the un-required update desk...

I went to this LHBS today to grab some bits for a spur of the moment extract brew I wanna put down in the morning. I need a bit of light crystal but they didn't have any - just some stuff quoted as being 220 EBC (which I'd say is around the bottom end of dark crystal?). Holding the bag out to the gent behond the jump I ask "Do you have anything lighter than this?" And he says "Huh?" So I rephrase a little and ask "Do you have any of this in a lighter colour?" His professional reply?

"I dunno anything about that - we don't sell much birdseed here!"

Me "..."

Him "Well, that's what it looks like to me."

I guess I just need to plan my brews further in advance because for me the L in LHBS stands for "lamentable".


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## jyo (8/1/10)

bum said:


> News just to hand from the un-required update desk...
> 
> I went to this LHBS today to grab some bits for a spur of the moment extract brew I wanna put down in the morning. I need a bit of light crystal but they didn't have any - just some stuff quoted as being 220 EBC (which I'd say is around the bottom end of dark crystal?). Holding the bag out to the gent behond the jump I ask "Do you have anything lighter than this?" And he says "Huh?" So I rephrase a little and ask "Do you have any of this in a lighter colour?" His professional reply?
> 
> ...




Oh my :blink: :wacko: 
Did you grab some for the budgies while you there, Bum?


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## yardy (8/1/10)

should've punched him in the neck..


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## kook (8/1/10)

Should have squarked at him and left (flapping madly as you exit).


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## pokolbinguy (8/1/10)

Well that deffinatley takes the cake Bum....bahaha that is the funniest story I have heard in a long time.

Pok


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## Online Brewing Supplies (8/1/10)

If you want good advise and service go to a supplier such as myself that has studied brewing science and can give you the right answers. As far as I know we are the only Strictly "All grain" Business in Australia.We don't do cans of goo or spirit flavourings etc . Most Home brew shops are really not places of knowledge on all grain brewing and you shouldn't expect them to be. As mentioned by MHB its a very small market to cater to.
GB


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## Greg Lawrence (8/1/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> As far as I know we are the only Strictly "All grain" Business in Australia.



Gee, if I knew that you were strictly all grain, I wouldn't have bought a kilo of hops from you while I was making can of goo beer.


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## bum (8/1/10)

I'm not going to go back and read my previous posts but I am quite certain I have already stated that I don't expect the blokes in these shops to cater for the more niche AG brewers but what I do expect them to understand is what the products they sell are. I don't think that is unreasonable.

And for the record I have no problem with a LHBS selling tins of goo or spirit flavourings and I don't see why anyone would. How many AG brewers have never ever brewed a kit? A low percentage, I am sure. We've all gotta start somewhere and if that is by buying a tin from a guy who can tell you how to turn the best beer possible with it then all the better.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (8/1/10)

Gregor said:


> Gee, if I knew that you were strictly all grain, I wouldn't have bought a kilo of hops from you while I was making can of goo beer.


Ok we specialise in "All grain" brewing, Happy now ?  
Gb


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## Effect (8/1/10)

I remember when I first got into brewing, and my girlfriends dad told me that a brewcraft had opened up near his place. He took me there in order to buy some grain. I asked the man behind the counter where the grain was (as I didn't understand that a home brew store wouldn't sell sacks of grain) - he pointed me towards a shelf covered with dust and some old 100 gram packets of specialty grain...sigh...then I found beerbelly, and through my grain deprived stint I bought about 70 kilos of grain - a lot considering I had never made a single batch of beer before...

Cheers
Phil


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## Greg Lawrence (8/1/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Ok we specialise in "All grain" brewing, Happy now ?
> Gb



I specialise in AG now too, but I was always happy. It was a top deal you did on the hops too. Not too much more than the chinese hops, but unlike the chinese hops, great quality.


1 x 06 US CASCADE PELLETS 500 gm (HOP-USCA500) = $22.00
1 x 06 NZ SAAZ B PELLETS 500 gm (HOP-NZBSZ500) = $24.00

Gregor


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## Online Brewing Supplies (8/1/10)

Gregor said:


> I specialise in AG now too, but I was always happy. It was a top deal you did on the hops too. Not too much more than the chinese hops, but unlike the chinese hops, great quality.
> 
> 
> 1 x 06 US CASCADE PELLETS 500 gm (HOP-USCA500) = $22.00
> ...


Them were the days when you could get hops without taking out a second mortgage on the house.I think things will get better again this year.Well at least they will be more stable. Im waiting to see what the new seasons hops prices are like.
GB


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## domonsura (8/1/10)

Phillip said:


> I remember when I first got into brewing, and my girlfriends dad told me that a brewcraft had opened up near his place. He took me there in order to buy some grain. I asked the man behind the counter where the grain was (as I didn't understand that a home brew store wouldn't sell sacks of grain) - he pointed me towards a shelf covered with dust and some old 100 gram packets of specialty grain...sigh...then I found beerbelly, and through my grain deprived stint I bought about 70 kilos of grain - a lot considering I had never made a single batch of beer before...
> 
> Cheers
> Phil



Yep, I remember that too :lol:...you were a kid in a candy shop 


Neville - you might 'specialise' in AG , but saying you are the only one is not true and you know it. That is unless you think having 3 tonne of over 40 odd varieties of malted grain, 40 ish varieties of hops and the full range of Wyeast in stock each month - _and the only full time dedicated AG equipment fabrication workshop making breweries attached to a homebrewshop that I am aware of_ with demonstration brewery in operation and wort production brewery in progress .........is not specialised enough and doesn't qualify us..... :huh: 

The way I see it - there's '_specialising_' - and then there's specialising....... I suppose I'll keep trying eh


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## chappo1970 (8/1/10)

domonsura said:


> Neville - you might 'specialise' in AG , but saying you are the only one is not true and you know it. That is unless you think having 3 tonne of over 40 odd varieties of malted grain, 40 ish varieties of hops and the full range of Wyeast in stock each month - _and the only full time dedicated AG equipment fabrication workshop making breweries attached to a homebrewshop that I am aware of_ with demonstration brewery in operation and wort production brewery in progress .........is not specialised enough and doesn't qualify us..... :huh:
> 
> The way I see it - there's '_specialising_' - and then there's specialising....... I suppose I'll keep trying eh




:lol: Bloody Noob get back in ya box!

:lol: 

Chap Chap

BTW I hope you looking after my Garden Gnome wekk?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/1/10)

domonsura said:


> Yep, I remember that too :lol:...you were a kid in a candy shop
> 
> 
> Neville - you might 'specialise' in AG , but saying you are the only one is not true and you know it. That is unless you think having 3 tonne of over 40 odd varieties of malted grain, 40 ish varieties of hops and the full range of Wyeast in stock each month - _and the only full time dedicated AG equipment fabrication workshop making breweries attached to a homebrewshop that I am aware of_ with demonstration brewery in operation and wort production brewery in progress .........is not specialised enough and doesn't qualify us..... :huh:
> ...


Wayne you are trying to be funny right ? As I said We specialise in AG not welding.
GB


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## bradsbrew (9/1/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Wayne you are trying to be funny right ? As I said We specialise in AG not welding.
> GB



Specialise in grain, specialise in grain FFS 6 of the 11 grain you stock is "out of Stock" get a grip man. Good on you for having a go though. Just dont have a crack at the real retailers to build your ego in the process.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/1/10)

bradsbrew said:


> Specialise in grain, specialise in grain FFS 6 of the 11 grain you stock is "out of Stock" get a grip man. Good on you for having a go though. Just dont have a crack at the real retailers to build your ego in the process.


Taxi ! We all know which way you swing.  
GB


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## Adamt (9/1/10)

Calm down fellers! You both stock a great range of grains and a great range of mash brewing equipment/products, and are located on opposite sides of the country... no need to fight!


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## chappo1970 (9/1/10)

Agree with Adam your both Gay! Gay as gay can be!


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## HoppingMad (9/1/10)

Wow. This is fantastic. I thought this thread was long dead. But it has risen like a zombie back for more blood.

And now to even add to the joy we have a bunch of retailers having a cage fight smack bang in the middle of it. Who would have thought this possible?

Awesome to take in while having a home brew. Thanks for the entertainment fellas! :icon_cheers: 

By the way, no affiliation but I think you're all tops with what you do. Retailing can be a thankless task at times - and we all love to bag out many of them (particularly poor Brewcraft), but without you blokes I wouldn't be drinking this end product right now, so cheers to you all!

Hopper.


Edit - speeling


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## chappo1970 (9/1/10)

HoppingMad said:


> Wow. This is fantastic. I thought this thread was long dead. But it has risen like a zombie back for more blood.
> 
> And now to even add to the joy we have a bunch of retailers having a cage fight smack bang in the middle of it. Who would have thought this possible?
> 
> ...



+1 Hopper

They are still both Gaylords :wub:  :lol:


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## HoppingMad (9/1/10)

Chappo said:


> +1 Hopper
> 
> They are still both Gaylords :wub:  :lol:



:lol: Excellent!


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## Screwtop (9/1/10)

Another pissing contest  

Screwy


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## Josh (9/1/10)

Thanks for the entertainment fellas. Good way to waste 5 minutes while I hve a coffee at work.

Now, what's Ross' number again?


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## Murcluf (9/1/10)

Josh said:


> Thanks for the entertainment fellas. Good way to waste 5 minutes while I hve a coffee at work.
> 
> Now, what's Ross' number again?



Hey Josh, does he specialise in All Grain like the others also, if so might to his number too....


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## SpillsMostOfIt (9/1/10)

I always thought that Harvey Norman was my All Grain Brewing Specialist...


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## Bribie G (9/1/10)

I buy all my birdseed from Ross, not to mention my guinea pig food.

Hey Nev what's this hop deal, is it on your site or do you have to be in the loop? Now that I can't get my beloved Marco Polo anymore  I'll have to look into this next time around 

You know it makes sense


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## yardy (9/1/10)

i thought the earth was flat...


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## Bribie G (9/1/10)

yardy said:


> i thought the earth was flat...



Yes that's a genuine picture of the flat earth. Europe and the USA fell off the edge during the GFC


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## SpillsMostOfIt (9/1/10)

BribieG said:


> Yes that's a genuine picture of the flat earth. Europe and the USA fell off the edge during the GFC



Damned Transverse Mercator Projection Economists!!! :angry:


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## Pollux (9/1/10)

Nah, it's just the LHC kicking in, that's the only part left.


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## domonsura (9/1/10)

Feck guys settle down...I was just having a laugh...:lol:......besides, it would be too short a pissing contest to be worth unzipping for.....


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## SpillsMostOfIt (9/1/10)

domonsura said:


> ...besides, it would be too short a pissing contest to be worth unzipping for.....



Does anyone in the audience have a spare pair of trousers they could lend us?


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## domonsura (9/1/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> Does anyone in the audience have a spare pair of trousers they could lend us?



:lol: didn't know you were into water sports Spills? :lol:

Merry Christmas / Happy New Year by the way!


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## bonj (9/1/10)

An entertaining thread.... you guys need to have another beer together... maybe go to a "club"... :icon_chickcheers: Who knows... I might join ya


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## domonsura (9/1/10)

Bonj said:


> An entertaining thread.... you guys need to have another beer together... maybe go to a "club"... :icon_chickcheers: Who knows... I might join ya



There were clubs like that down in Melbourne weren't there? :lol: Might be a slightly debauched visit to Melbourne this year eh boys ? :lol:

edit: spelling ...sheesh, and I haven't even been drinking!


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## bonj (9/1/10)

domonsura said:


> There were clubs like that down in Melbourne weren't there? :lol: Might be a slightly debauched visit to Melbourne this year eh boys ? :lol:


I think so... I missed out somehow


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## brettprevans (9/1/10)

Can we get a bulk buy on flat earths? 
I think my last conv with a lhbs was with Ross whose 8000km away! in regards to a physically local hbs it was Dave at greensborough. Anythhibg is local with the internet.


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## Fatgodzilla (9/1/10)

> 'domonsura' post='579972' date='Jan 9 2010, 03:55 PM'
> 
> Feck guys settle down...I was just having a laugh..



where yo get your sense of humour from D? Can't remember you having one last time?




> There were clubs like that down in Melbourne weren't there? :lol: Might be a slightly debauched visit to Melbourne this year eh boys ? :lol:



bugger going to Mrs Palma's then! Yeehaa .. 2010 in Melbourne .. can't wait!


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## Greg Lawrence (9/1/10)

Theres a good one in Sydney too


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## bonj (9/1/10)

$25 entry!


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## Goofinder (9/1/10)

Bonj said:


> $25 entry!


He did say it was in Sydney...


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## winkle (9/1/10)

Bonj said:


> $25 entry!



Pretty expensive for a rear entry innit? :blink:


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## ben_sa (9/1/10)

Winkle took the words outta my mouth lol

Rear entry in Adelaide costs $5 with change


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## bum (9/1/10)

Or so you've read...


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## Bribie G (9/1/10)

Free up the top of the Surf Beach on Bribie if you don't mind Manly Love


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## enoch (9/1/10)

ben_sa said:


> Winkle took the words outta my mouth lol
> 
> Rear entry in Adelaide costs $5 with change


Back door friends friends ar best or at least that's what a friend told me.


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## Wonderwoman (10/1/10)

haysie said:


> Oakleigh, the worst brew store I have ever visited.



Brewcraft in oakleigh is my nearest homebrew shop and I have to say it's not ALL bad. I've definitely had bad or average service there and the prices are higher than elsewhere, but there is one guy who works there, carl, who's very helpful and knowledgeable. What I've noticed is that the service and advice depends on who's working. It seems that the guys who work on the weekends don't want to be there and are generally unhelpful, but if you go in on a weekday you can get good service.


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## Pete2501 (10/1/10)

I love my LHBS. In fact my mate is coming round my place now so I can introduce it to him. He wants to make his gluten free beer which this place specialises in. Gluten free bread, beer you name it.


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## peas_and_corn (10/1/10)

Some foreigner runs the HBS I go to


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## haysie (10/1/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> Some foreigner runs the HBS I go to



Heaven forbid.


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## peas_and_corn (10/1/10)

I really hope that smilie made is painfully obvious I was being silly.


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## JonnyAnchovy (10/1/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> I really hope that smilie made is painfully obvious I was being silly.



We don't understand satire here. You're being racialist. or something.


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## Murcluf (10/1/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> Some foreigner runs the HBS I go to



He might talk funny have dry sense of humor and have a strange alure to sheep, but at least he doesn't sell crappy cans of goo from across the ditch or inferior chinese hops. But does brew up some awesome beers and is a dab hand when it comes to working with stainless.

Man you got to love his work....!!!!


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## drsmurto (11/1/10)

how many HBS have a pizza oven capable of belting out 8 pizzas at a time as well as a projector set up with a playstation.......


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## bum (11/1/10)

Oh dear.

Sounds like the phrase "I'm just popping down the LHBS for so supplies, love" might cause a little consternation in some households.


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## domonsura (11/1/10)

It has to be said that the projector is _really _for watching brewing videos while the mash is on during a demo - and the pizza oven...well that's a combi oven that I am using to develop recipes for my next business elsewhere....so let's not get too excited, I'm not running a pizza shop...:lol:....yet......

and Lunny...I've told you before...I don't like sheep....they jump around too much.


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## T.D. (11/1/10)

DrSmurto said:


> how many HBS have a pizza oven capable of belting out 8 pizzas at a time as well as a projector set up with a playstation.......



:lol: I actually thought you were talking about Grumpys! :unsure:


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