# Differences in grain



## chubbytaxman (24/1/15)

Brewers,

Soz ... Noob question.

Can anyone enlighten me on the differences of these grains ....

Maris Otter
Pale Malt
Ale Malt 


Are any of these the same ie Pale Malt and Ale Malt ??

chubby


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## Helles (24/1/15)

They are all pale malts and all ale malts with different characteristics


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## danestead (24/1/15)

Maris otter is a type/breed of barley


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## Smokomark (25/1/15)

Have a look at the grain and malt page on Craftbrewers website.
it gives you a description of flavours, colours and general characteristics for each grain.


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## JDW81 (25/1/15)

Pale ale and ale malt are essentially the same thing. They are a two row barley that have been malted and kilned to produce a base malt that is light in colour, highly modified and suitable as a foundation for most beers.

Maris otter is still a pale malt, however it is a special English winter variety of 2 row barley that was specifically bred for the brewing industry in the 60's (I think).

I find maris otter to have a slightly more "malty character" and like to use it for my English/irish style beers and heavier american styles (higher end APA and IPAs). 

JD


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## chubbytaxman (26/1/15)

Thanks gents for all your input.
Think I am on the right track now ... 

chubby


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/15)

Pilsner, Pale & Ale malts are basically the same. The colour difference is only 2-3 SRM with Pilsner malt being slightly lighter They could be made from any number of barley varieties

Marris Otter is a variety of Barley that is malted and sold under the same name. It does have a more malty taste, Sort of a bit like Vienna, but not really the same, if that makes sense


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## Bribie G (26/1/15)

To me the difference between domestic Ale and Lager malts as opposed to Maris Otter, Golden Promise, Pearl and other UK malts is like the difference between an Arnott's Milk Arrowroot biscuit and a Scotch Finger.

Both have their place in the appropriate recipe.


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## dowlmott (18/2/15)

Hi Partial Man!
Maris Otter is an old English malt variety with a flexible temp range hence often favoured by home brewers as you can mash reasonably effectively. There are many modern barley varieties now that can give different performance and higher yield and efficiency depending on what you are after. Some brewers (both pro and home) love and swear by Maris Otter, some have been sworn off it. Having introduced Gladfield Ale Malt to pro-craft brewers in Victoria, AU I noticed a lot switch quickly away from Maris Otter to Gladfield Ale Malt which is an English variety but not an old variety. Here is some explanation from one very experienced highly awarded pro-craft-brewer in NZ why they stopped using Maris Otter many moons ago and go on board modern Ale malt variety - most specifically Gladfield Ale Malt - which you can buy at www.beerco.com.au/shop or Grain & Grape or Full Pint if you are in Melbourne and hopefully many new home brew shops across Australia soon 

Maris Otter

In what way has it out performed Gladfield’s Ale? 

1. Yield?
2. Lautering performance?
3. Taste?
4. Colour?
5. Aroma?

Brewhouse performance – yield and lautering – Gladfields malt tends to be quite delicate – if you over crush you’re in trouble. Maris tends to take a little harder crush but not Gladdys. Yields for us have been massive – we’ve had to dial back some of our recipes the last couple of months because of yield being too high at kettle fill. We do use multi step mashing – usually a rest at 45 or 50 dependent on malt batch then up to 66-68C in main mash. Plenty of brewers I know use only a one stop mash rest at 67 and they have no issues with extract or lauterability. We choose to sit the malt at the lower rests because it gives us damn good yields and stability in the bottle.

Gladdys ale tends to be more ‘toasty’ in flavour and we have dialled back the ale malt and substituted lager malt if we want a cleaner malt profile say in a hoppy pale ale. Not so in the darker ales where we want that toastiness. That toastiness does come thru on the aroma dependant on what yeast and water profile you are using. So dependant on recipe we play around with the ale/lager mix to achieve the right balance we want.

We went away from Maris after using it for years because the quality was so variable across the years that for a long time our beers went backwards. We don’t tend to give a supplier or malt another chance if this happens especially when the maltster or supplier deny any change in the quality of the malt – which is what has happened to us in past! Lately the Maris we notice has been much improved but we cant take the risk anymore based on our experience with it over 20 years. I feel as antipodeans we probably are pretty low on the list when it comes to supplying us from the UK/Europe – have always felt this way but that’s just my opinion. Gladfields responds immediately to any request in malt differences and warns us of any changes – batch by bloody batch. If we ask for a back down in one malt quality they respond by tweaking the next malting. Something impossible with UK based maltsters. You get stuck with the NZ/Aus allocation – you take what you get given.

It is for this reason we have chosen Gladdys over our former dominion masters. Service, malt quality and the ability to work direct with the maltster – cant beat it. Gladdys malt does take a little tweak in the brewhouse from the standard supplied malts from local or Euro sources but once dialled in to the brewery I wouldn’t go back.

Happy to discuss this direct with the brewer if need be.

{name removed to protect pro-brewer privacy}


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## verysupple (18/2/15)

So a quick Google shows that Gladfields use "only winter grown English bred 2-row varieties" in their ale malt. Any idea what the actual breed of barley is?


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## dowlmott (20/2/15)

Hi Supremely mediocre brewer,
Gladfield Malt grow 2/3 of their own malting barley on farm and this year planted Taverner (an old English Guiness malt variety), Chronicle ( a new variety that can be used for both distilling and brewing) and I need to check their third variety as likely another new world modern variety. They buy in some malt from local growers contracted to them and they had an excellent quality harvest this year according to Doug @Gladfield Malt - owner/founder/chief maltster. I'll check in with him what they planted and use in the Ale malt this year.

Try not to get too hung up on the variety as the skill of the maltster just like the skill of a good brewer is to work with their raw material input - barley, wheat, rye, etc and then create a consistent quality malt through the germination, kilning, roasting, process, etc.

The true test of a good malt and maltster is 'consistency'. I can hand on heart say if you try or buy Gladfield Ale Malt and do batch after batch it will be consistent! Why? Because the owner of the malting uses only his malt, contracted malting barley and rejects the rubbish. That's simply not the case at some of the mighty multinational macro maltings where they bargain the price so low to the grower and bring it in by the B-double semi trailer from far and wide and it all goes in the mighty massive germination and kiln together. IF you are a major multinational brewer you set the tech spec and reject the rubbish. If you are a small craft brewer or home brewer you often get the rubbish from the big boys as they down grade it and quit it where they can. There are many outstanding big maltsters making great malt but I can tell you hand on heart from experience and talking with pro-craft brewers in Melbourne they see some rubbish come into their brewhouse from the big boys and are pretty much powerless to do anythign about it and have to work their brewing socks off to make a consistent quality beer.

Brew happy 
cheers,
Dermott


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## dowlmott (20/2/15)

Hi VerySupple,

A good article written by Doug @Gladfield Malt and posted out on our blog today on modern Barley varieties here: http://www.beerco.com.au/gladfield-malt/paddock-to-keg-flavour-challenge/

Article was first published by SOBA NZ (Society of Beer Advocates) Autumn 2014 issue link here: http://www.soba.org.nz/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/POH_Autumn-2014_web.pdf

Clearly some work to be done on malting varieties and techniques to catch up on the Hop Growers but fair to say the need has been recognised and there are some wonderful new malts and barley varieties coming out all the time. 

Also nothing wrong with old varieties. Ancient grains are good but we also need to move with the times, beer styles and keep up with the demands of the modern craft and home brewer for new and differentiated malts.

cheers,
Dermott


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## verysupple (20/2/15)

Thanks for the info. I don't really get hung up on variety, I was just curious.

I've always wondered how much the barley variety determines the flavour. I always assumed it was mostly determined by the malting procedure. I mean, I love to use Simpsons Maris Otter for example, but never knew if it was the fact that it was Maris Otter or the way they malt it that I like. On that note, I also assumed that the major differences between malts of different regions (US vs UK for example) was the typical malting processes used in certain regions more than using different barley varities. So how big a role does each part play?

My curiosity goes deeper too. So, you seem to be a fan of modern barley varieties. So what makes them better (more consistent yield, flavour etc.)? Are they some how easier to malt in a consistent way? Are the grains more consistently sized giving a more even crush? Is it easier for the farmer to control the protein content?

EDIT: Thanks Dermott, your above post came in while I was typing and partly answers some of my questions. Cheers.


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## dowlmott (20/2/15)

Hi Very Supple,

Just heard from Doug @GladfieldMalt re: what he planted and harvested this season: Chronicle, Quench, Tavern. All English bred 2 row varieties.

You are right on both fronts verysupple - both place/provinence and variety and the malting process will all have an impact on quality and beer flavour.

Despite many brewers dispassion for wine and wine wank one of the things we do have in common with wine in beer is provenance and place in terms of our raw materials. Be they malt, hops or yeast (harvested locally).

What is great about Canterbury NZ (can not speak of Canterbury UK) vs. many other malting barley growing regions of the world is the microclimate: Maritime, an alluvial flood plain so plenty of good water to help the barley grow big and plump and fat during the growing season in a cool martime climate and then right on harvest in the height of summer they have a hot north westerly wind that blows in over the Alps and drys the barley right before harvest. You want a good dry grain when you harvest for safe storage.

Then the magic of the maltster comes in after that with how they monitor and control the malting process. Their art and craft is very much like the brewer.

If you ever get to Canterbury, NZ (Christchurch) for a craft beer journey or holiday - great craft brewers there, take the detour 45 mins SW to Dunsandel and visit the farm and maltings. Every year Doug & Gabi host a hoard of NZ Homebrewers to the farm and maltings and they love to see the process from paddock to grain bag and Doug & Gabi and the team @GladfieldMalt love to taste all the amazing great beers the homebrewers make - might have to hit them up for an Aussie Home Brewer to join next years Harvest Homebrewers fest!

PS Some of the other great malting barley regions of the world for different regions are as you mention, UK, GER, Czech, the former USSR, Canada, US, Argentina. Won't tell you where some of the worst are. Australia make some great wheat and malting barley as well. You should look up the boys at Voyager Malt as Australia's first craft maltings and growing some wonderful grain varieties and making some marvellous malts. Tasted some superb examles brewed by Canberra Brewers @ANHC4 with Voyager Bulkoke Ale Malt - very clean dry with some wonderful bread character coming through in the glass to balance the single hop (using HPA Enigma) beers the team @Canberra Brewers made. Think Full PInt might have some Voyager in their latest bulk buy.


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