# Little Creatures Pale Ale - Boonies K&k Clone Review



## waggastew

I know lot of people have been there and done that BUT for those of you who have not......

Been a fan of LCPA ever since I discovered the joys of hops, ales and decent beers. After a bit of research around this site and others I settled on the following recipe based on Boonies famous clone:

1 x Morgans Stockmans Draught
1 x can Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract
250g dried wheat malt
30g Cascade hops
30g Chinook hops
US-05 dried yeast

Two cans of goo, malt with some boiling water, made upto 23L. 20g cascade/10g chinook steeped in hot water and all in to the fermenter on Day 0. Dry hopped 10g cascade/20g chinook on day 3. Brewed at 18-20degC for 3 weeks. Bottled with 1tsp sugar on 5/9/10.

Did a side-by-side comparison with LCPA today (clone on left in the tall glass, real thing on the right)







Pours with a nice off white head that lasts and laces. Colour is a deep golden, probably one shade darker than LCPA. Carb is spot on, gets finer as I drink. 

Aroma is characteristic but slightly more fruity/less herbaceous than LCPA

Very similar mouthfeel, I thought mine was a bit too thick/malty but not bad in comparison. Clone is slightly sweeter/rounder but not at all cloying. Bitterness is perfect, hint on the palate after swallowing. 

Clone is definitely a bit less crisp but only noticeable in side by side. Have read that LCPA possibly uses a lager yeast for carbonation? If so it would explain the nice bite you get with the commercial stuff. If anyone reads this and knows anything about this process please reply. 

Overall: This beer is what websites like this is about. Somebody else has done the hard work and you enjoy the benefits. This beer is so close to the original that it takes a side-by-side to nit-pick a few differences. I remember reading on here something about 'taking home Jennifer Hawkins sister'. At $18 a standard case who is going to argue? In fact, if the normal commercial brews were half as good as this I would not have taken up home brewing in the first place. Well done to Boonie and others who have done the hard yards!


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## boriskane

waggastew said:


> Dry hopped 10g cascade/20g chinook on day 3. Brewed at 18-20degC for 3 weeks. Bottled with 1tsp sugar on 5/9/10.
> 
> Clone is definitely a bit less crisp but only noticeable in side by side. Have read that LCPA possibly uses a lager yeast for carbonation? If so it would explain the nice bite you get with the commercial stuff. If anyone reads this and knows anything about this process please reply.



did you find that the dry hop aroma was a bit lacking? i read that the rigours of fermentation will drive most of the aromas from the dry hop out of the fermenter and that its best to dry hop after fermentation is near complete/finished. but then again, the US05 does finish really quickly from my experiences.

yeah they do use lager yeast for bottle conditioning, and i also read that it was so it gets that dry finish. if you check out the Little Fella's Pale Ale recipe discussion youll find some more info on it i think. and Alex T (lc head brewer) has posted some info on the pale ale recipe a couple of times and there are loads of little creatures threads floating around if you havent seen them already.

great to hear that it worked out! cant wait to try an lcpa ag clone some time


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## waggastew

Aroma was pretty spot on, definitely had the same general aroma as LCPA. As I mentioned, probably more floral/fruity and less herby than the commercial version. Might try and flip the hop additions next time?

Will look into the lager yeast thing as it gives the commercial version a nice tang. I just read some of the posts but did not see any logistics. Is the following feasible?

1. Ferment the LCPA clone as above in primary for 3 weeks.
2. Rack to secondary and crash chill
3. Bulk prime with sugar AND 200mL of a lager starter and bottle
4. Keep bottles at 12degC to ensure lager yeasties do their thing with the priming sugar (rather than the US05?)

Stew


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## boriskane

waggastew said:


> Aroma was pretty spot on, definitely had the same general aroma as LCPA. As I mentioned, probably more floral/fruity and less herby than the commercial version. Might try and flip the hop additions next time?



yeah sorry i cant be of any more assistance, i havent ventured into adding more yeast for bottle conditioning yet so i cant help you out on that part.

but i do know that lcpa hops are now: EKG+Cascade+Galaxy. so that could be the difference in hop flavours that youre talking about

from a lot of reading i found that in general the majority of people recommended dry-hopping in the secondary for up to 7 days or until you felt that the aroma was to your liking (but any more than 7-10 and people said grassy flavours tend to come up). 

this is what Alex recently had to say about the hopping in the pale ale:
'the blend for the past couple of years has been pretty similar with a dose of EKG for a portion of the kettle hop (along with Cascade), and Cascade and Galaxy for the hopback (we haven't used Chinook for a couple of years now)'

not sure if any of that helps...


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## ploto

I put down one of these yesterday, using the newer hop recipe.

1.7kg Coopers Premium Draught
1.5kg Morgans light malt extract
200g dried wheat malt extract
EKG 15g @ 15
Galaxy 15g @ 15
Cascade 10g @ dry after 4-5 days
US-05
23l, ferment at 18C

am tempted to throw in another 5g each of EKG & Galaxy with the Cascade...


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## mjp

ploto said:


> I put down one of these yesterday, using the newer hop recipe.
> 
> 1.7kg Coopers Premium Draught
> 1.5kg Morgans light malt extract
> 200g dried wheat malt extract
> EKG 15g @ 15
> Galaxy 15g @ 15
> Cascade 10g @ dry after 4-5 days
> US-05
> 23l, ferment at 18C
> 
> am tempted to throw in another 5g each of EKG & Galaxy with the Cascade...


I would, 10g wont be enough for a full batch to make much diff, IMO


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## tones0606

where did you get the dry wheat malt extract from? i've been meaning to try some of that


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## waggastew

I usually get my stuff through Craftbrewer but they have been out of Wheat Malt for a bit. These guys have it in stock:

http://www.brewcraftsa.com.au/listProduct/...alts+-+Powdered

They also have Muntons Extra Light Malt for anyone looking into brewing lagers


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## mwd

I would go the 1g per litre for dry hopping if you are trying to get a good hop aroma.

I have been after some dry wheat for a while. CB still seems to be out of stock maybe G&G have some got some from them last year.


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## ploto

Ended up just going the 10g of cascade dry at day 5. I had a lcpa on tap today and tbh I find it a wee bit on the floral side (though the missus loves it), so I'm happy to see happy to see how this brew turns out and can adjust future recipes as needed.

I got that dry wheat malt extract from The Brew Shop, but just got some more in an order from CB so it seems they are back in stock.


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## Camo1234

Tropical_Brews said:


> I would go the 1g per litre for dry hopping if you are trying to get a good hop aroma.
> 
> I have been after some dry wheat for a while. CB still seems to be out of stock maybe G&G have some got some from them last year.




I got some dry wheat malt from CB a few weeks back but I picked it up so maybe the site just hasn't updated?


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## mwd

ploto said:


> Ended up just going the 10g of cascade dry at day 5. I had a lcpa on tap today and tbh I find it a wee bit on the floral side (though the missus loves it), so I'm happy to see happy to see how this brew turns out and can adjust future recipes as needed.
> 
> I got that dry wheat malt extract from The Brew Shop, but just got some more in an order from CB so it seems they are back in stock.




Don't forget that 95% of dryhopping is aroma but I am sure they end result will be fine. Should not get too much floral flavour. If you leave the brew for a long time before bottling you may detect a slight grassiness but 10g in 23l should not cause any problems. 

Not after dry wheat now from CB its the Fresh Wort Kits that have my fancy Oh No  :icon_offtopic:


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## alizzan

ploto said:


> I put down one of these yesterday, using the newer hop recipe.
> 
> 1.7kg Coopers Premium Draught
> 1.5kg Morgans light malt extract
> 200g dried wheat malt extract
> EKG 15g @ 15
> Galaxy 15g @ 15
> Cascade 10g @ dry after 4-5 days
> US-05
> 23l, ferment at 18C
> 
> am tempted to throw in another 5g each of EKG & Galaxy with the Cascade...



Hey Ploto, this is a really dumb question, but I just bought the above ingredients and plan to make this after my CPA clone. Anyway, do you mean that you boil the two tins in water, add the DWME, then add the EKG + Galaxy, boil for another 15 mins, flameout then add to fermenter. Top to 23L, add Cascade at 4-5 days? That's my understanding of the process you used above. Also, how did it turn out?


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## ploto

No I just boiled up the 200g of dry malt extract in about 2l of water and boiled the hops in that. I didn't boil the cans at all, just soaked them in hot water then tipped them straight into the fermenter with the boiled extract, then added tap water to that to make the 23l. 

Had a taste of it last week after it had been two weeks in the bottle and it was already very nice, that does remind me it has now been three weeks so high time to put another bottle in the fridge for testing eh!


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## alizzan

ploto said:


> No I just boiled up the 200g of dry malt extract in about 2l of water and boiled the hops in that. I didn't boil the cans at all, just soaked them in hot water then tipped them straight into the fermenter with the boiled extract, then added tap water to that to make the 23l.
> 
> Had a taste of it last week after it had been two weeks in the bottle and it was already very nice, that does remind me it has now been three weeks so high time to put another bottle in the fridge for testing eh!



Ah, excellent! Thanks for answering. I'll be interested how long you think they need to mature for, ideally. Just finished a CPA clone last night, so in a few weeks I'll give this one a shot.


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## ploto

It's carbed and quite drinkable after three weeks, perhaps more so than my earlier beers, but would no doubt benefit from further time in the bottle. I've found with the kit beers I've done eight weeks is about the point when the bulk of the improvement seems to occur, but 12 is the most I've left anything so far.

If I were to do this recipe again I would use the coopers light malt extract and at least double the hops.


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## alizzan

ploto said:


> It's carbed and quite drinkable after three weeks, perhaps more so than my earlier beers, but would no doubt benefit from further time in the bottle. I've found with the kit beers I've done eight weeks is about the point when the bulk of the improvement seems to occur, but 12 is the most I've left anything so far.
> 
> If I were to do this recipe again I would use the coopers light malt extract and at least double the hops.



Too easy. I got the Coopers LME, and the Morgan's Stockman's Draught, and 40g each of the Galaxy, EKG and Cascade. I'm heading off to the Philippines for a few weeks soon ($3 for a 6-pack, anyone?) and then will put the LCPA down when I get back. I'll make sure I double the hops. Sure it won't make it overly hoppy?


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## ploto

alizzan said:


> I'll make sure I double the hops. Sure it won't make it overly hoppy?



Well that depends how hoppy you like your beer...

I tried one of mine side by side with a pint of real LCPA and it was... nothing like it, but still quite a nice pale ale and streets ahead of a straight kit. The bitterness from my copy is a bit stronger and a lot harsher than the original, hence my initial idea to double the hops, but after thinking (drinking) about it I would probably not add too much more, maybe change the 15g additions to 20g and up the dry hop from 10g to 15g. I guess it depends whether you are the sort of person who likes to go overboard the first time and then scale back, or start conservatively and then build it up. Your call, but I suspect the latter will give better results.

However if I were to attempt this again I would definitely go for a full extract version rather than using any of the kits.


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## rumdiary

> 1 x Morgans Stockmans Draught
> 1 x can Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract
> 250g dried wheat malt
> 30g Cascade hops
> 30g Chinook hops
> US-05 dried yeast
> 
> Two cans of goo, malt with some boiling water, made upto 23L. 20g cascade/10g chinook steeped in hot water and all in to the fermenter on Day 0. Dry hopped 10g cascade/20g chinook on day 3. Brewed at 18-20degC for 3 weeks. Bottled with 1tsp sugar on 5/9/10.



Going to attempt this next, looks great! how many liters did you boil the dried wheat malt in? and how long was the hops steeped for? And once this is done, you pour the pot of hops/malt into the FV with the 2 cans of goo?


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## waggastew

Going to attempt this next, looks great! how many liters did you boil the dried wheat malt in? 2-4L is fine

How long was the hops steeped for? 5 mins in a cup of boiling water then tip the whole lot into the fermentor, or put the hops in the boil for the last five minutes

And once this is done, you pour the pot of hops/malt into the FV with the 2 cans of goo? Yep, give it a good stir, add top up to 23L, then stir again.


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## rumdiary

easy  and how long do you need to boil the malt for?


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## waggastew

rumdiary said:


> easy  and how long do you need to boil the malt for?



No real need to boil the malt at all, so as short a time as possible


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## dmac91

what was OG and FG?


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

waggastew said:


> Aroma was pretty spot on, definitely had the same general aroma as LCPA. As I mentioned, probably more floral/fruity and less herby than the commercial version. Might try and flip the hop additions next time?
> 
> Will look into the lager yeast thing as it gives the commercial version a nice tang. I just read some of the posts but did not see any logistics. Is the following feasible?
> 
> 1. Ferment the LCPA clone as above in primary for 3 weeks.
> 2. Rack to secondary and crash chill
> 3. Bulk prime with sugar AND 200mL of a lager starter and bottle
> 4. Keep bottles at 12degC to ensure lager yeasties do their thing with the priming sugar (rather than the US05?)
> 
> Stew



It sounds like the lager yeast thing is called krausening. Just read about it in BYO magazine.


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## alextrippa

Hey guys,
Did my first home brew batch of this brew and my OG was 1060. I have double-checked and this seems quite high.
There was a bit of sediment in the test cylinder though i did spin the hydrometer a few times to verify the reading.
2 and a bit weeks in (its cold here in ACT), i'm getting a 1020 reading and wondering if its time to bottle.


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## warra48

What yeast did you use, alextrippa?

If it's US05, you may want to try warming your fermenter a bit and agitating the yeast at the bottom to get it to drop a few more points. 1.020 seems high to me for this beer.
I brewed this in my really early days, and got it lower than where yours is at present.

I wouldn't bottle it at 1.020 just yet.


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## alextrippa

Done and done (last night). Thanks will see how it moves now


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## HomeBrewDan

Has anyone been brewing this lately? Or this there a new recipe on the go for LCPA?


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## Tasspark

alextrippa said:


> Done and done (last night). Thanks will see how it moves now


sorry quoted the wrong post. See below.


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## Tasspark

HomeBrewDan said:


> Has anyone been brewing this lately? Or this there a new recipe on the go for LCPA?


I found this on the Brewcraft website 
http://www.brewcraftsa.com.au/showProduct/Famous+Beer+Recipes/Australian+Beer+Recipes/20954/LITTLE+CREATURES+PALE+ALE+STYLE+-+Recipe+Favourite%0D%0A

Ive given this recipe a go, and I bottled it last week.
It smelt sooooo good from the airlock while it fermented!
I tasted the wort when I took my FG (1.010 I think) and after a month or so in the bottle It should taste pretty damn good!!
Just keep the final volume to 20L max. Better flavour!

Little Creatures Pale Ale style beer - 
Black Rock PILSNER BLONDE + 
Brewcraft BREWBLEND # 15 + 
150g Wheat Malt Extract + US05 Safale Yeast + 
extra hops; 15g Cascade & 15g Williamette. (hop tea)
This recipe isn’t a copy. 
We’re sure you’ll notice differences between the beer you make and the original. It’s simply a similar style of beer that we believe you’ll like very much if you’re keen on the original.


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