# Using Dex or Cane Sugar to Dry out an IIPA



## Fat Bastard (17/1/13)

G'day all.

I've been working on an Imperial Red IPA for ages now, and I'm starting to get it close to what I'd like it to be.

The last one was pretty chewy, and very rich, even though the FG was .004 below target at 1.014.
Recipe is as follows:

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 9.365
Total Hops (g): 420.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.091 (°P): 21.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.018 (°P): 4.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 9.54 %
Colour (SRM): 17.3 (EBC): 34.1
Bitterness (IBU): 107.7 (Rager)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
7.500 kg Perle Malt (80.09%)
0.650 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (6.94%)
0.650 kg Carared (6.94%)
0.250 kg Crystal 120 (2.67%)
0.250 kg Crystal 60 (2.67%)
0.065 kg Chocolate (0.69%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
5.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
5.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
5.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
25.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
15.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
5.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
40.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (1.6 g/L)
20.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
80.0 g Amarillo Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (3.2 g/L)
40.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (1.6 g/L)
200.0 g Amarillo Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (3.4 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------
5.0 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
5.0 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
5.0 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
8.0 g Brewbrite @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
4.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Step Infusion 52/10, 66/60, 72/10, 75/MO
Fermented at 22°C with WLP001 - California Ale (no temp control in the old place)

In the new recipe I've backed the grain bill down quite a bit and intend to mash at 64. I've added 250g of dex to bring the alc up to where I want it to be. Should I be using Dex or cane sugar for this, and should I be using it in the boil/mash or adding to the fermenter after primary?


*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 7.860
Total Hops (g): 525.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.080 (°P): 19.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (°P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 8.48 %
Colour (SRM): 15.2 (EBC): 29.9
Bitterness (IBU): 98.6 (Rager)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
6.200 kg Pale Ale Malt (78.88%)
0.500 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (6.36%)
0.400 kg Carared (5.09%)
0.250 kg Corn Sugar (3.18%)
0.250 kg Crystal 60 (3.18%)
0.200 kg Crystal 120 (2.54%)
0.060 kg Chocolate (0.76%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
5.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
5.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
5.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
25.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
15.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
5.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
40.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (1.6 g/L)
20.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
80.0 g Amarillo Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (3.2 g/L)
40.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (1.6 g/L)
200.0 g Amarillo Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (8 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------
5.0 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
5.0 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
5.0 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
8.0 g Brewbrite @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
4.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
Step Infusion 52/10, 64/60, 72/10, 75/MO
Fermented at 18°C with WLP001 - California Ale

Your input will be appreciated!

Cheers,

FB


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## Nick JD (17/1/13)

I add sugar to the boil for IIPAs and Belgians. A lot of the sucrose will invert.

Seems to me that an alreay stressed yeast is best off knowing what it's got to eat, rather than being freaked out - and then given enough extra sugar to shit in its own nest enough to kill it.

Let it know the full meal at the start. Prepare it for that.


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## bradsbrew (17/1/13)

You've got 20% crystals in a big malty beer. I would drop the 2 crystals (120 and 60) bring the carared down to 250, bring the carapils down to 250. Use sugar to bring the OG back to where you wanted it but add it in 2 additions on day 2 and 3 of ferment. 


Cheers brad


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## Fat Bastard (17/1/13)

Cheers guys!

Nick, do you reccomend using Cane or Dex for this?

Brad, I'm not sure I'm ready to drop the crystals yet. I'm basing the recipe around a clone of the old Green Flash Hop Head Red recipe I found on one of the American forums and have backed the percentages down quite a bit from there. I'm not going for an Irish Red colour, more like the old HHR or Heretic Evil Twin, rich, deep 'Coke' red. Almost black, but red when held to the light.

So, now I have 2 different answers, what are the pros for adding the sugar during the ferment? Nick's method seems to make sense to my limited experience. Why would I add the sugar to a fermenting wort? Is it like stepping up a starter?


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## bradsbrew (17/1/13)

Feeding sugars during ferment is a method I have used when building big beers. The basics behind it is that the yeast will chew through the simple sugars first and produce certain flavours, and also alchohol will be more prominent when they have all the sugar at the start. The carapils will add to the body and at 6% as you have it in your recipe is on the high side. You are making a beer that is 8.5% and trying to bring the body down and I presume you dont want the alchohol to be prominent as well. I have done well at comp level with the feeding method one being an Imperial porter at 13.5%. Worked for me.

Cheers


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## Fat Bastard (17/1/13)

So maybe back the Carapils off a bit and use the sugar to get it back to 8.5%? I assume you dissolve the sugar in some boiling water before adding it, do you just boil it for long enough to dissolve and sterilise or do you try to get some caramelisation going on too?

Cheers,

FB


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## bradsbrew (17/1/13)

Yes dissolved and boiled will work. Have also tried inverting with citric acid as well then adding to fermenting brew.

Cheers


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

Fat Bastard said:


> Nick, do you reccomend using Cane or Dex for this?


Dextrose, where possible. It's cheap, and the yeast can access it immediately.

Yeast will breed up according to the sugar level of the wort. If you tell them they only need the numbers for 1.085 and then keep adding sugar until you have a total of 1.100 ... you are essentially underpitching in a stressed environment.

I disagree with the premise that it's a better way to handle yeast in big beers.


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## Damien13 (18/1/13)

Bloody hell. Am I the only one who went cross-eyed just looking at that hop schedule??
Hats off sir!


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## bum (18/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> Dextrose, where possible. It's cheap, and the yeast can access it immediately.
> 
> Yeast will breed up according to the sugar level of the wort. If you tell them they only need the numbers for 1.085 and then keep adding sugar until you have a total of 1.100 ... you are essentially underpitching in a stressed environment.
> 
> I disagree with the premise that it's a better way to handle yeast in big beers.


I don't understand your thinking here. Adding smaller amounts of fermentables to a stronger colony (or whatever the correct term is) is more stressful than adding a much smaller colony to a bigger beer?


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## carniebrew (18/1/13)

Damien13 said:


> Bloody hell. Am I the only one who went cross-eyed just looking at that hop schedule??
> Hats off sir!


No you are most certainly not alone. If I ever had a 9.5% abv beer with 107 IBU's in front of me I wouldn't know whether to drink it or just sit there in amazement poking it with a stick. 200 grams of Amarillo after 7 days of fermentation, in 25 litres of beer. Consider me gobsmacked.


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

bum said:


> ...is more stressful than adding a much smaller colony to a bigger beer?


Yeast will signal to stop breeding according to the OG you pitched them into - not the OG in your recipe sheet.


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## bum (18/1/13)

So how do you re-pitch yeast if they're "programmed" to never grow again?


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

When you're stepping up starters, do you oxygenate for each step?

Do you oxygenate your 8.5% beer than you plan to take up to 10.5% with additional sugars?


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## bum (18/1/13)

Fair point. Thanks.

But for it to negate the benefits Brad suggests (and pretty much all traditional really big beer techniques, innit?) wouldn't there need to be no oxygen available at all? Wouldn't that be the bigger issue anyway?


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

Situation 1: Asking a yeast population optimal for 1.085 (while under duress being in an 8.5% fermentation) to cope with a sudden increase in SG to 1.100 with no easy ability to increase their population.

Situation 2: Asking a small yeast population at pitch to ascertain the OG and breed to a sufficient population to handle 1.100.


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## manticle (18/1/13)

For beers like big belgians, I add most sugar incrementally once FG is reached. However I usually add 200g or so to the boil and for your addition I would whack it straight in. If it were 800g or so i would at at later points in small doses.

Theory is that yeast may stop being able to consume maltose. Experience has given me hot alcohol when adding loads of sugar in at the start. 250g is not loads though.

You want dry, drop the mash temp to 62


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## bum (18/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> Situation 1: Asking a yeast population optimal for 1.085 (while under duress being in an 8.5% fermentation) to cope with a sudden increase in SG to 1.100 with no easy ability to increase their population.
> 
> Situation 2: Asking a small yeast population at pitch to ascertain the OG and breed to a sufficient population to handle 1.100.


Situation 2 still sounds like a fairly stressful situation for our little yeasties though. My understanding (shallow as it is) is that if we _must_ stress the hardy little buggers then the initial growth period is the worst time to do it. Is that incorrect?


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## mckenry (18/1/13)

To the OP.
I asked this question re sugar in a Belgian a few years back.
Answer was add it 10 mins to end of boil. It was 1kg white sugar. Did the same job to what youre wanting I reckon.
As for adding it later to the ferment. Not my thing. I like to 'set and forget'. Get my yeastie soldiers prepared for the whole war on those sugars. Not fight later reinforcements..
I know it works feeding gradually for big beers, but I dont like to open the fermenter once pitched (if I can help it). Therefore I rarely dry hop either.
As for those hops - frig. Looks like a lot of messing around. If thats youre thing, go for it.
Personally I would be getting the same IBU's from 60, 30 & 5 mins, especially as you're doing 200g dry hop! I doubt you'll notice any flavour differences from 40 to 30 to 20 mins when you have 107 IBU.
BTW do you really have two different Amarillo? If so, why choose the 9% for dry?
Still, send me a bottle when its done


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## RobW (18/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> Situation 1: Asking a yeast population optimal for 1.085 (while under duress being in an 8.5% fermentation) to cope with a sudden increase in SG to 1.100 with no easy ability to increase their population.


Sorry I can't agree with this opinion.
You're not raising the gravity to 1.100 because the initial fermentation has already lowered it.
Feeding a ferment over a few days is well accepted and certainly something that's worked well for me.


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## AndrewQLD (18/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> Situation 1: Asking a yeast population optimal for 1.085 (while under duress being in an 8.5% fermentation) to cope with a sudden increase in SG to 1.100 with no easy ability to increase their population.
> 
> Situation 2: Asking a small yeast population at pitch to ascertain the OG and breed to a sufficient population to handle 1.100.


I was under the impression that yeast will only multiply until all available oxygen is consumed, they then go into sugar eating/alcohol making mode.
I had no idea yeast would continue to multiply according to the OG of a wort.


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## QldKev (18/1/13)

During the Lag phase they utilise the oxygen and get ready for the ferment. It's later in the Log phase where they multiple whilst consuming the sugars.


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

AndrewQLD said:


> I had no idea yeast would continue to multiply according to the OG of a wort.



I can't remember the signaling chemical they use (starts with S IIRC).

If you have 2L of water and add a gram of LDME and 10 yeast cells, will they breed up to the same population as the same 10 cells added to 2L of water with 200g of LDME?

If so - why are we making starters with 1.040 wort? When we could get the same yeast population with 1.001 wort...


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## QldKev (18/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> I can't remember the signaling chemical they use (starts with S IIRC).
> 
> If you have 2L of water and add a gram of LDME and 10 yeast cells, will they breed up to the same population as the same 10 cells added to 2L of water with 200g of LDME?
> 
> If so - why are we making starters with 1.040 wort? When we could get the same yeast population with 1.001 wort...



Isn't it because of the flavors they throw when they multiply? Under pitching would produce a very estery beer

edit: from wyeastlab
_Many of the significant aromatic and flavor compounds are by-products of cell growth and are produced during the log phase. Many large breweries try to limit the amount of yeast growth by pitching larger quantities of yeast and therefore minimize ester synthesis. Keeping fermentations cold also limits ester production by limiting the rate of growth._


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

QldKev said:


> Isn't it because of the flavors they throw when they multiply? Under pitching would produce a very estery beer


True, but I talking about making a _starter_ with 2L of 1.001 wort to illustrate that the yeast would not multiply to the same population as 2L of 1.040 wort.

There isn't enough food to support that population. Less budding, same oxygen.

I've been doing a bit of reading about how the whole yeast metabolism system is nutso inefficient, but it's all done to produce the alcohol - because that eliminates most of their competition. These little feckers are smarter than ya think.

From Wyeast:

_*Cell Growth:*
The two main factors associated with controlling the level of cell growth in fermentations are sterol content in cell membranes and amount of sugar available._
_In most standard fermentations, the sterol content in the cultures is the limiting factor in cell growth. Sterols (See Oxygenation section) are only synthesized during the early stages of fermentations and are diluted every time a cell buds. When sterol levels reach a certain point in the cell membrane, the cell will stop budding. If very high pitch rates are used, as is the case with most starters, the culture can exhaust the sugar source prior to depleting the sterol contents. The depletion of sugar will cause the culture to stop growing._


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## AndrewQLD (18/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> True, but I talking about making a _starter_ with 2L of 1.001 wort to illustrate that the yeast would not multiply to the same population as 2L of 1.040 wort.
> 
> There isn't enough food to support that population. Less budding, same oxygen.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a shit load of contributing factors, kinda makes me glad i just pitch my yeast and let nature take it's course, way too much to think about. :wacko:


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## QldKev (18/1/13)

I think we are on the same page, that the Lag phase is only there to condition the cells ready for the Log phase. The amount of resulting cells is determined by the Log phase which is more dependent on the gravity of the wort. We do want healthy cells from the Lag phase to ensure the yeasties are conditioned (_Sterols_) to produce our desired beer. Hence we produce our starters at around 1.040 so they are not stressed out from working too hard on a big starter; but not coming back from the Bahamas ready to get to work, but only having minimal cells to kick off and multiplying too much resulting in too much of the yeasty sex juices (_esters)_ in our beer.


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## Nick JD (18/1/13)

_Yeasty sex juices_ made me do a little bit of sick in my mouth.


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## mje1980 (19/1/13)

I just bottled a 10.3% IIPA,, which had 800g of sugar in the boil. Pitched onto the cake of a 4.5% ale, it was fine, and attenuated right where I had hoped it would ( 1.014 from memory ). I have also added similar amounts to Belgian trippel, but after initial fermentation. Both methods worked fine. If the yeast are healthy, and you have enough, both ways should work.


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## bum (19/1/13)

Thanks to the posters above who have clarified my misunderstandings in my previous posts.


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## Fat Bastard (26/4/13)

I suppose I better update the thread and explain my results. I brewed this recipe:

Imperial IPA

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 7.860
Total Hops (g): 525.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.080 (°P): 19.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (°P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 8.48 %
Colour (SRM): 15.2 (EBC): 29.9
Bitterness (IBU): 98.6 (Rager)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
6.200 kg Pale Ale Malt (78.88%)
0.500 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (6.36%)
0.400 kg Carared (5.09%)
0.250 kg Corn Sugar (3.18%)
0.250 kg Crystal 60 (3.18%)
0.200 kg Crystal 120 (2.54%)
0.060 kg Chocolate (0.76%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
5.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
5.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
5.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
10.0 g Warrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
25.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
15.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
5.0 g Warrior Pellet (15.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.2 g/L)
40.0 g Amarillo Pellet (8.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (1.6 g/L)
20.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
80.0 g Amarillo Pellet (9% Alpha) @-10 Minutes (Whirlpool) (3.2 g/L)
40.0 g Simcoe Pellet (12.2% Alpha) @ -10 Minutes (Whirlpool) (1.6 g/L)
200.0 g Amarillo Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (8 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------
4.0 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
2.5 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
2.0 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
4.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
8.0 g Brewbrite @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
2.9 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
1.8 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Step Infusion 55/10,64/60,72/10,78/10
Fermented at 18°C with WLP001 - California Ale


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*

Turned out so well, I brewed it twice, second time around was much better due to the 2l stirplate starter and Polyclar & filtering. The first batch was good enough to win beer of the night at the brewclub, so it was pretty good, but man he second lot is _amazing _even after only about 4 hours in the keg! It's easily the best beer I have ever brewed.

Couple of problems, it might be a bit too dry. It finished up at 1.010, which is probably at the low end of the range for a IIPA, and it's a bit too light for the dark red I was going for.

Thinking about subbing out the dex for half the amount of Dark Candi Sugar, upping the base and reducing the crystals to get about 20-21 EBC for the same gravity.

Never used Candi Sugar before, so really have no idea how much this amount (200g) will affect the flavour. I'd appreciate some more guidance. I think this recipe is very close to being done after 12 months of development. Thanks everyone for your informative replies above!

Cheers,

FB.


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## Byran (25/6/13)

Ill have to say, what an insightful topic. Good to read about yeast health and I have to say also...wow thats some hoppy shit in that recipe.


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## Fat Bastard (25/6/13)

I'll be brewing the next iteration of this in the next few weeks with D2 Candi Sugar and 25% more whirlpool and dry hops, and a slightly revised mash schedule. 
Still not hoppy enough!


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## Kranky (25/6/13)

Just wondering why the late hop additions of warrior? I made a smash beer with warrior when I first started and got almost nothing out of the late additions.


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## Fat Bastard (25/6/13)

I've found that it smooths out the bitterness when compared to a larger early addition. Warrior is very neutral and I don't expect it to add anything to the aroma. That being said, when I started with this recipe ( the one above is the seventh version) it was designed with Columbus in place of the Warrior, although I've never got around to brewing it with Columbus!


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## Kranky (25/6/13)

I brewed a IIPA recently using Amarillo, Simcoe and Columbus. Sored a 48 in a local comp. I'd recommend giving it a go.


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## Thefatdoghead (25/6/13)

Nick JD said:


> When you're stepping up starters, do you oxygenate for each step?
> 
> Do you oxygenate your 8.5% beer than you plan to take up to 10.5% with additional sugars?


Check the homebrew chefs 120minute IPA. He adds heaps of oxygen and sugar during fermentation to get to 20 something percent.
So yes you can.


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## Fat Bastard (25/6/13)

Kranky said:


> I brewed a IIPA recently using Amarillo, Simcoe and Columbus. Sored a 48 in a local comp. I'd recommend giving it a go.


It was originally a hepped-up version of a Green Flash Hop Head Red clone, which is a bloody lovely beer, so I can't imagine it being anything less than fantastic with a Columbus/Simcoe/Amarillo bill!


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## Bribie G (25/6/13)

What has this bump got to do with the original question about using sugar to dry out an IPA?


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