# Nelson Sauvin



## milpod (23/11/07)

I keep going back to this superb hop.What a wonderful taste and aroma


Might have to try it ,with a wy3068


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## schooey (23/11/07)

I love this hop. I brewed Ross's NS Summer Ale recipe, with the exception that I fermented it with a Swiss Lager yeast at 12 C. It's a great session beer. I am doing the exact same thing again for the HAG case swap.


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## Stuster (23/11/07)

Interesting. I'm not sure I'm game to try that, but if you do, tell us how it went.


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## milpod (23/11/07)

The 3068 and ns in the same brew?

I'm usually a style nazi,but this one makes me wonder


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (23/11/07)

Drinking a very basic NS lager now, very nice indeed, maybe a bit too much NS in the finish but still a very drinkable beer.

JW pilsner 75%
Cara pils 5%
Acid malt 2%
Cane sugar 18%

super alpha 60 mins 12 ibu
ns 30 mins 10 ibu
ns 15 mins 8 ibu
load of ns for aroma
San Francisco lager yeast


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## Tony (23/11/07)

I made a wheat ale with WLP001 a while back with nothin but NS.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=206

It was a nice beer but could have dome with more malt to back the hops up. maybe 10% carahell would pick it up and ballance the extra bitterness, especially i using a dry neutral yeast.

I recon it would be great with 3086. maybe 50% munich pils withe the wheat. I you add more hoppiness.... add more maltiness to ballance.

cheers


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## browndog (23/11/07)

I just knocked this one up, been in the fermenter for 6 days now. It's my first go with NS.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Nelson Sauvin Ale
Brewer: Tony Brown
Asst Brewer: Jess
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 32.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 9.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 38.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 90.91 % 
0.25 kg AA Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 4.55 % 
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 4.55 % 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (35 min) Hops 20.8 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (15 min) Hops 12.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
50.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (0 min) (Aroma HoHops - 
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US-56 (Safale) [Starter 200 ml] Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 14.35 L of water at 72.2 C 62.0 C 


cheers

Browndog


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## milpod (23/11/07)

Tony I dont think the Weisbier I'm making needs any more malt backbone,have melanoidin in it

If anything maybe a touch more @ 60 mins.

But I'm willing too decoct the mash,to get it right.

Have fallen inlove with 3068


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## Screwtop (23/11/07)

milpod said:


> I keep going back to this superb hop.What a wonderful taste and aroma
> Might have to try it ,with a wy3068




Works great! BUT you have to keep the bittering to 12 - 15 IBU otherwise the hops swamp the Banana esters produced by the yeast. Cascade is another great mixer with this yeast but you need to keep the bittering low and toss in a small amount at flameout. Very difficult to balance at this level but makes a cracker if you get it right.


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## Brewer_010 (23/11/07)

I am a big fan of this hop after trying it the first time about 9 months ago. I've used it in a wheat and it does need malt to balance it, but it has a sensational aroma and flavour, very unique.

This evening I have just bunged down a FWK amarillo ale and dropped in 15g NS flowers and 25g amarillo....mmmm smells good. 

When I get time soon I am going to brew a partial with a fair bit of NS flavouring/aroma (1.5-2g/L) with southern cross as the bittering hop - I tried this some time ago and I thought the combination was excellent, although the malt was a bit too dominant IMHO.


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## milpod (23/11/07)

Pellets or Flowers Browndog?

Very similar to my house ale,what a good drop.

Always have ns flowers on hand,everyone loves the taste...from wine to honey


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## browndog (23/11/07)

milpod said:


> Pellets or Flowers Browndog?
> 
> Very similar to my house ale,what a good drop.
> 
> Always have ns flowers on hand,everyone loves the taste...from wine to honey



Pellets Milpod, I tried the knappstein reserve lager and thought "jeez, I gotta get me some NS"

cheers

Browndog


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## milpod (23/11/07)

Try the flowers dude,smooths out the taste

Ns has been my hop of choice for so long now,I cant remember beer without it.

Nevermind Greenbullet is now on my must do list


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## beers (23/11/07)

Screwtop said:


> Works great! BUT you have to keep the bittering to 12 - 15 IBU otherwise the hops swamp the Banana esters produced by the yeast. Cascade is another great mixer with this yeast but you need to keep the bittering low and toss in a small amount at flameout. Very difficult to balance at this level but makes a cracker if you get it right.



I totally agree. I love the flavour & aroma from this hop but find it to be too coarse for bittering. & a small amount goes along way for flavour & aroma additions.

I also use it a lot, in the mash, for American IPA's.

Overall I really like this hop but I either try to blend it, at lower amounts, in APA's or AIPA's, or use it 100% in late hop/hopburst beers. 

IMO it's a great hop but can get a little OTT if your heavy handed with it.


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## milpod (23/11/07)

Screwtop said:


> Works great! BUT you have to keep the bittering to 12 - 15 IBU otherwise the hops swamp the Banana esters produced by the yeast. Cascade is another great mixer with this yeast but you need to keep the bittering low and toss in a small amount at flameout. Very difficult to balance at this level but makes a cracker if you get it right.




Man i'd love to have a crack at cascade and ns in 3068 morph .But i cant see them together in the the same brew.

But Hb is about pushing limits


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## milpod (23/11/07)

beers said:


> I totally agree. I love the flavour & aroma from this hop but find it to be too coarse for bittering. & a small amount goes along way for flavour & aroma additions.
> 
> I also use it a lot, in the mash, for American IPA's.
> 
> ...




your right of course, we were getting carried away with it,yep ott


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## schooey (23/11/07)

I did Tony's bright Ale last night and as soon as I opened the pouch of cascade, I thought.. mmmmmm, I wonder how these would go with some NS, but with soething a bit more malty to back it up. Never thought of 3068 though. Maybe you're onto something milpod


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## milpod (23/11/07)

Dude ,I have shitload of cascade and I'm always plumb with NS flowers.

My yeastbank has 3068 at single usage.

I'm good for the Job

My records r good,i'll post differences,but dont take my results as gospel.

I'll experiment,but in the end i'm A SYTLE NAZI.


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## Screwtop (23/11/07)

My family fav is Roger Watson. A roggen Weizen (wheat and Rye)

Hop bill is basically 54% Ale Malt, 22% Rye Malt, 22% Wheat Malt, 2% Med Crystal
NB for bittering (low 16 IBU)
10g Amarillo @20 min addition.
10g Cascade @5 min addition.
3068 yeast fermented @ 21C

Added NS flowers to the last couple with great results, one dry hopped and the other, cascade was replaced with NS flowers. Muckinrefarkable.

Gotta keep the IBU low and let the Banana shine.


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## The King of Spain (23/11/07)

Screwtop said:


> My family fav is Roger Watson. A roggen Weizen (wheat and Rye)
> 
> Hop bill is basically 54% Ale Malt, 22% Rye Malt, 22% Wheat Malt, 2% Med Crystal
> NB for bittering (low 16 IBU)
> ...



I'm with you Screwy. I've the best part of a bag of NS and my notes from a while ago record its best as a finishing / dry hop (did two) better results using NB for bittering.

Cheers


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## domonsura (24/11/07)

I just got a small pile of NS flowers in and opened the first bag yesterday...and I'm addicted....to the point that there's a little bag of flowers under my pillow (trouble sleeping .... ) woke up to the aroma of NS this morning 
Doing my first brew with it tomorrow (an all NS Ale), & doing another using Green Bullet flowers for bittering and NS for aroma on Sunday. Looking forward to it, no other hop I have smelled so far comes even close to the smell from a fresh half kilo bag..... Now I understand what all the fuss is over.....


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## milpod (24/11/07)

Dom ns and green bullet together ummmmmmm


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## domonsura (24/11/07)

ummmmmmmmmmmmm good or ummmmmmmmmm bad? (I wasn't talking heavy bittering, just enough to provide some background for the NS...)


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## milpod (24/11/07)

goooooood


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## milpod (24/11/07)

Well we all know they can play rugby,but shit can they hop a beer on all 3 aspects


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## beersom (24/11/07)

beers said:


> I I love the flavour & aroma from this hop but find it to be too coarse for bittering.



I would heartily disagree with this statement.
In fact to cut back on coarse bitterness in one of my beers I switched over to NS. The change was remarkable and I found I was able to up bittering from 28 to 31 IBU.


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## Ross (24/11/07)

beersom said:


> I would heartily disagree with this statement.
> In fact to cut back on coarse bitterness in one of my beers I switched over to NS. The change was remarkable and I found I was able to up bittering from 28 to 31 IBU.



+1 - I find it a great bittering hop.

It's the late additions i keep a more careful check on these days - I did my NS summer ale recipe but switched all the additions to late & doubled the amount of hops - it had nowhere near the finese of the original & lost its balance, with exactly the same IBU's

Cheers Ross


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## razz (24/11/07)

My latest recipe with NS, the summer ale was a great beer. This is clearing in the fermenter and should be kegged in about a weeks time. Tastes great so far.

Type: All Grain
Date: 30/10/2007 
Batch Size: 42.00 L
Brewer: JD 
Boil Size: 42.00 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 82.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
8.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 100.00 % 
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (60 min) Hops 21.0 IBU 
60.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (5 min) Hops 8.4 IBU 
1.00 tsp koppafloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
20.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.053 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.009 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.65 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.74 % 
Bitterness: 29.3 IBU Calories: 493 cal/l 
Est Color: 6.5 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 8.00 kg 
Sparge Water: 26.01 L Grain Temperature: 20.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 78.0 C TunTemperature: 20.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.2 PH 

My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
90 min Step Add 24.00 L of water at 71.3 C 65.5 C 
15 min Mash out Heat to 76.0 C over 20 min 76.0 C 



Mash Notes: 
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.7 
Pressure/Weight: 96.5 KPA Carbonation Used: - 
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 4.0 C Age for: 28.0 days 
Storage Temperature: 4.0 C


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## mfdes (26/11/07)

It's seriously excellent used as an all-late hop, added only in the last 30 minutes or less of the boil. Be prepared for a hop explosion though 

MFS


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## The King of Spain (26/11/07)

razz said:


> My latest recipe with NS, the summer ale was a great beer. This is clearing in the fermenter and should be kegged in about a weeks time. Tastes great so far.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Date: 30/10/2007
> ...



Razz, How do you go with a single malt brew with head formation / retention? I'm going to do a brew very similar yours to use up some NS but would probably put in a little wheat. I've never done a single malt hence the question.

Cheers


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## Steve (26/11/07)

I love this hop. I first tried it last year with Ross NS Ale. For me its a hop that had to grow on me. Originally I thought it smelt and tasted like sweaty socks. I put that down to drinking it far too early. I also made a lager with it (ala Knappstein Lager) which turned out very tasty:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=405

I used in my NSW Xmas Case Swap. Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=396

Cheers
Steve


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## drsmurto (26/11/07)

Razz - i brewed a lager using only NS a month ago. On tap atm.

Was 95% pils, 5% melanoidin with NS used at 20, 10 and 5 mins to give me 36IBUs. Dumped onto a wyeast 2000 yeast cake.

Opening the bag of hops i was amazed at how different the aroma was compared to the likes of cascade and amarillo.

Interesting reading up on ideas of mixing NS with cascade. 

And as far as getting IBUs from only late additions, i would love someone to confirm my initial tastings (maybe at the case swap). I think its a little harsh compared to other pilsners with up to 40IBUs......its still an easy drinking beer but something is out of whack. 8 AGs in an i still expect to nail every brew!  

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## drsmurto (26/11/07)

KOS - i dont add wheat or carapils to my pilsners and have never had any trouble holding the head all the way to the bottom of the glass. Only made 3 so far so i am no expert by any means but i figure using all grain and a clean glass solves all. Has so far.


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## razz (26/11/07)

The King of Spain said:


> Razz, How do you go with a single malt brew with head formation / retention? I'm going to do a brew very similar yours to use up some NS but would probably put in a little wheat. I've never done a single malt hence the question.
> 
> Cheers


I've done a few single malt beers over the years, generally I don't have a problem with head retention. Although the head on my pale beers are not as stubborn on beers using dark malts. Even the two CAP's I made this year, with 25% flaked rice, kept a good head.


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## milpod (7/12/07)

Ok, tried ns in a 3068 @ 50 mins.into boil.I kept in style @ around 19 ibu's,but it just wasn't balanced.

The ns aroma/flavour tended to overpower the subtle characteristics of the 3068.

The exact one i made next to it,has all the character I like in a hefeweizen.


I think I'll continue the German beers,as a style nazi.

Worth exploring.Cheers


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## KoNG (7/12/07)

Not a fan! It's seriously about the only hop i don't like. Don't like knapstein and haven't enjoyed the few beers i've brewed with it. One thumb down.


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## Thommo (7/12/07)

I can take it or leave it.

I've been offered a few beers with NS and they're nice, I'll drink 'em no worries. Not something I feel the urge to brew with though.


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## bindi (14/12/07)

Steve said:


> I love this hop. I first tried it last year with Ross NS Ale. For me its a hop that had to grow on me. Originally I thought it smelt and tasted like sweaty socks. I put that down to drinking it far too early. I also made a lager with it (ala Knappstein Lager) which turned out very tasty:
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=405
> 
> ...




Thanks Steve :super: I made your lager from the recipes above and it's BLOODY FANTASTIC [sorry for shouting] :unsure: 
I used the Swiss Lager yeast from Ross and fermented it at 10c,a rest when done, kegged and into CC [well it is a lager] can't wait to put this one on tap.
It's a winner.


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## Batz (14/12/07)

KoNG said:


> Not a fan! It's seriously about the only hop i don't like. Don't like knapstein and haven't enjoyed the few beers i've brewed with it. One thumb down.




Ditto
Yet to taste a beer I like brewed with this hop,all about personal tastes hey?

Batz


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## PostModern (14/12/07)

I think most people (Knappstein included) over-use the hop. One of the tastiest pale ales I have made used only 20g at flameout and it was enough. A nice hop, but imho should be used sparingly as the flavour and aroma are pretty prominant.


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## Steve (14/12/07)

bindi said:


> Thanks Steve :super: I made your lager from the recipes above and it's BLOODY FANTASTIC [sorry for shouting] :unsure:
> I used the Swiss Lager yeast from Ross and fermented it at 10c,a rest when done, kegged and into CC [well it is a lager] can't wait to put this one on tap.
> It's a winner.



Good news Bindi.
Cheers
Steve


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## browndog (14/12/07)

Steve said:


> Good news Bindi.
> Cheers
> Steve



Hey Steve, what temp did you ferment the lager at using the nottingham?

cheers

Browndog


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## Steve (14/12/07)

browndog said:


> Hey Steve, what temp did you ferment the lager at using the nottingham?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



I brewed it at ale temps....I was in a hurry for beer! :chug:


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## bindi (14/12/07)

Batz said:


> Ditto
> Yet to taste a beer I like brewed with this hop,all about personal tastes hey?
> 
> Batz




:lol: I hear some people don't like wheat beers also  personal tastes hey?


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## Batz (14/12/07)

bindi said:


> :lol: I hear some people don't like wheat beers also  personal tastes hey?








Batz


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## Steve (14/12/07)

My Nelsons Bastard Ale seems to be going down very well in the NSW Xmas Case Swap.....definately doing this one again.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=396

Cheers
Steve


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## milpod (14/12/07)

Looks like a nice drop Steve,will have to give it a go.I needed an excuse to give Nottingham a try


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## Jazman (14/12/07)

Im with Post modern on this and not to over do the late additions or ns but wortk swell with a few other hops


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## roger mellie (14/12/07)

I love this hop. If there were only 3 hops it would be this D Saaz and EKG.

I have messed with the recipe - late/early/more less it matters little - this hop is a star performer at the Fulchester.

In the mash tun as we speak - 

Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 14/12/2007 
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter Brewer: Roger Mellie 
Batch Size: 23.00 L Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 31.20 L Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % Equipment: Keg Kettle 

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 90.9 % 
0.50 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 9.1 % 
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.00%] (60 min) Hops 16.0 IBU 
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.00%] (20 min) Hops 9.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.00%] (5 min) Hops 4.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.00%] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.2 IBU 
25.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.00%] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc 
12.15 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 90.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US-56 (Safale) 

Big Weekend - One today and 2 tomorrow hopefully - Ducati Stu's Stout and a Roggenbier.

All ready in time for mass consumption at Xmas.

Beers

RM


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## milpod (14/12/07)

Hi Roger,what affect are you after using torrified, as opposed to malted wheat in this recipe?

Just curious,as I only use torrified in my wits now.

Cheers


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## roger mellie (14/12/07)

milpod said:


> Hi Roger,what affect are you after using torrified, as opposed to malted wheat in this recipe?
> 
> Just curious,as I only use torrified in my wits now.
> 
> Cheers



TBH - I brought half a bag of it - and I won another bag of Wheat in a comp a while ago

So I thought I would use it up.

It was in the original recipe that I plaigerised from Ross and found it gave outstanding head and a very sticky lace - I have deviated and used normal wheat - with good results also.

I made a wit with it - wasnt that fussed actually (from memory) - still got 8KG left so might try again one day.

RM


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## milpod (14/12/07)

Thanks,no worries,thought as much.

I know Ross dropped it from his grain bill in favour of malted wheat.

Always curious


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## roger mellie (14/12/07)

milpod said:


> Thanks,no worries,thought as much.
> 
> I know Ross dropped it from his grain bill in favour of malted wheat.
> 
> Always curious



Like I said - I experimented with both Malted wheat and TW.

The original NSSA also had a Mash Hop - which I think he also dropped - I have brought it back into all my brews.

And a spoonful of table salt.

Works for me

RM


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## dr K (14/12/07)

It is a strange hop, just one you need to get used to I guess. Knappstein uses it to great effect and the 2006 Hop Thief was a really good. I tasted some at a friends place (he used NS and Pac Hall in this beer) and the beer was quite wonderfull, I used the same schedule in a similar beer and whilst it was nice, fell short of wonderfull.
Used in the wrong proportions though it seems to muddy the flavours a bit...I tasted a commercial beer, apparently an Irish Red earlier this year which I was told may have used NS, along with Pac Hall and B Saaz, there seemed to be some sort of fight going on between the NS and the BS, perhaps thats what gave its slightly metallic even blood like character (cold it was fine, it was the warming that did it), though I doubt it, I suspect it was something else, my gingivitis perhaps. :wub: :wub: 
Anyway..great hop..use with caution, anyone who has some tested suggestions...let me know, I was given a bag and would like to use it well.

K


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## browndog (14/12/07)

Here is my first effort with NS in an ale. The 50G addition at the end of the boil didn't seem to have the dramatic effect I thought it would. Turned out to be a well received beer that I can sit on all night.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Nelson Sauvin Ale
Brewer: Tony Brown
Asst Brewer: Jess
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 32.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 9.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 38.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 90.91 % 
0.25 kg AA Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 4.55 % 
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 4.55 % 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (35 min) Hops 20.8 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (15 min) Hops 12.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
50.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20 %] (0 min) (Aroma HoHops - 
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US-56 (Safale) [Starter 200 ml] Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 14.35 L of water at 72.2 C 62.0 C 


cheers

Browndog


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## milpod (14/12/07)

dr K,for a lovely summer session ale,I ibu as follows:

5kg base malt
.75 wheat
15g ns flowers(11.9%)@ 30 mins
15g ns flowers(11.9%)@ 20 mins
15g ns flowers(11.9%)@ 10 mins
15g ns flowers(11.9%)@ 00 mins

around 30 ibu's.

single mash @ 66 for 60 mins
mash out for 10 mins.

Easy drinking,but i'm a NS addict.

Bittering with another hop pearle/northern brewer would give a much more balanced beer.IMHO


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## PostModern (14/12/07)

dr K said:


> anyone who has some tested suggestions...let me know, I was given a bag and would like to use it well.



My house ale is 10% wheat malt, 90% Ale malt, 25IBU of bittering hop (Warrior, Pride Plus, Northern Brewer, Perle, whatever) and 1g/L of flavour/aroma pellets tossed into the whirlpool. The one I made with Warrior at 60mins and 20g of NS in the whirlpool was delish. I don't know how people can put 100g of this hop into one beer, it's just ott, imho. 20g gave a nice full amount of the hop without destroying the malt and yeast character.


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## Ross (14/12/07)

milpod said:


> Thanks,no worries,thought as much.
> 
> I know Ross dropped it from his grain bill in favour of malted wheat.
> 
> Always curious



The only reason I changed originally, was the torrified wheat was a bugger to put through the mill.
I found the malted wheat gave virtually the same result & hence stuck with it. Reckon i'll give the TW another run next Summer Ale.

cheers Ross


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## browndog (14/12/07)

> I don't know how people can put 100g of this hop into one beer, it's just ott, imho.


maybe our tastebuds are not as dainty as yours PM  Megaswill drinkers have enjoyed the NS ale I did with 110G, and there is definitely no sweaty sock smells there, just a clean, crisp, hoppy beer.

cheers

Browndog


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## dr K (14/12/07)

PM and Milpod
Thanks for your suggestions....my NS are in pellet form.
I tend to add hops to the whirlpool as well but at 3g/l.
Despite my reservations about a lot of NS (and PMs) I might just try MP all NS..its the only way to tell I guess, and if NS does muddy other hops, why not use 100%.
I may report back, but probably not....

K


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## milpod (14/12/07)

Dr_k,my suggestion was only for an all NS brew,if using other hops perle/northern brewer are great bittering hops for later NS additions.

Pile the NS as late adds.

Oh and NS will never muddy the water


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## PostModern (14/12/07)

browndog said:


> maybe our tastebuds are not as dainty as yours PM



Dainty? I like 100IBU beers and give them huge amounts of late hops to back them up as well. atm, I have a 70+IBU 1.065 IPA in a cube that has 70g of late hops (EKG, Fuggles and Amarillo). I don't fear the hop, but use each hop according to it's characteristics. 

I've found that NS has an industrial solvent character to it when used in large amounts. It might be my brewing methods, it might be the hop, it might be a bit of both, hell, it could just be my palate. When I make a summer ale, much like many commercial breweries, I use only two additions, one at 60 mins to bitter and one in the whirlpool. How much goes in depends on the gravity and the ingredients. I like balance in my pale beers, not just HOPS HOPS HOPS HOPS HOPS!!!!!


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## browndog (14/12/07)

PostModern said:


> Dainty? I like 100IBU beers and give them huge amounts of late hops to back them up as well. atm, I have a 70+IBU 1.065 IPA in a cube that has 70g of late hops (EKG, Fuggles and Amarillo). I don't fear the hop, but use each hop according to it's characteristics.
> 
> I've found that NS has an industrial solvent character to it when used in large amounts. It might be my brewing methods, it might be the hop, it might be a bit of both, hell, it could just be my palate. When I make a summer ale, much like many commercial breweries, I use only two additions, one at 60 mins to bitter and one in the whirlpool. How much goes in depends on the gravity and the ingredients. I like balance in my pale beers, not just HOPS HOPS HOPS HOPS HOPS!!!!!



Industrial solvent hey, that is interesting, I think that individuals can be very sensative to different compounds. I seem to be very sensative to hydrogen sulphide and can pick it up big time where others can't detect it at all. I take back the dainty call PM, you ARE a hop ledgend.

cheers

Browndog


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## milpod (14/12/07)

POmo I agree about over doing it,NS can be solvent/shit when overdone,but when done right it is sensational.

I dont over hop a beer for the sake of it.But I guess you have never done an all NS to test it?

ANy fleetwood mac fans?


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## browndog (14/12/07)

milpod said:


> POmo I agree about over doing it,NS can be solvent/shit when overdone,but when done right it is sensational.
> 
> I dont over hop a beer for the sake of it.But I guess you have never done an all NS to test it?
> 
> ANy fleetwood mac fans?



Each to their own I guess, I am drinking the above recipe right now and for the life of me can not taste any solvent/shit.

cheers

Browndog


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## yardy (15/12/07)

i brewed the Full Nelson Summer Ale back in june, (a summer ale in winter) 4500 MO - .500 Wheat - 20gm @ 60 - 10gm @ 10 - 10gm @ 2, about 27 ibu, went down well here, even the teetotal er indoors liked it.


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## bindi (20/12/07)

bindi said:


> Thanks Steve :super: I made your lager from the recipes above and it's BLOODY FANTASTIC [sorry for shouting] :unsure:
> I used the Swiss Lager yeast from Ross and fermented it at 10c,a rest when done, kegged and into CC [well it is a lager] can't wait to put this one on tap.
> It's a winner.




This beer is now on tap and is my "go to tap" at the moment  if you like Nelson Sauvin try this recipe [posted above] with the Swiss Lager yeast.  Very nice.


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## winkle (20/12/07)

bindi said:


> This beer is now on tap and is my "go to tap" at the moment  if you like Nelson Sauvin try this recipe [posted above] with the Swiss Lager yeast.  Very nice.



Good to see you've got a lite beer on tap mate


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## Screwtop (20/12/07)

bindi said:


> This beer is now on tap and is my "go to tap" at the moment  if you like Nelson Sauvin try this recipe [posted above] with the Swiss Lager yeast.  Very nice.




Tasted it yesterday, that is one well balanced lager. All of this talk re sensitivity, I seem to be uber sensitive of late to the breadiness (best way I can describe it) aroma/flavour of WPils. Have been subing with 50% Galaxy lately to drop the aroma in my lagers. The NS aroma in Bindi's beer was quite low in comparison to a lot of NS beers I've sampled, however it just masked the WPils aroma beautifully. Found the bitterness and aroma was less in your face in comparison to Knappstein and I thought this HB example was a better lager.

Screwy


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## matti (20/12/07)

Nelson Sauvin is NZ-hop, right?
My hop-sheet has it as a dual hop with grape fruit note as flavour.
Seemingly high in Alpha acids I wonder what it's like for bittering.
I seem to gone hopping mad lately and trying to avoid over hopping so I can enjoy a regular beer from time to time.  
It appear some of you are using it at lagers hop as well. :huh: 
Is this NZ Lagers?
I am only researching ATM. 
Is there any commercial drop there is should try to get a feeling of this hop other then Knappstein?


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## warrenlw63 (20/12/07)

matti said:


> Is there any commercial drop there is should try to get a feeling of this hop other then Knappstein?



Mac's Hop Rocker. It's a really top drop. :wub: 

Warren -


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## PostModern (20/12/07)

Screwtop said:


> Tasted it yesterday, that is one well balanced lager. All of this talk re sensitivity, I seem to be uber sensitive of late to the breadiness (best way I can describe it) aroma/flavour of WPils. Have been subing with 50% Galaxy lately to drop the aroma in my lagers. The NS aroma in Bindi's beer was quite low in comparison to a lot of NS beers I've sampled, however it just masked the WPils aroma beautifully. Found the bitterness and aroma was less in your face in comparison to Knappstein and I thought this HB example was a better lager.
> 
> Screwy



Testify! Balance is the key to great beer. There are times when hops should be in your face, but I don't think NS is the hop for that job.


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## bconnery (20/12/07)

matti said:


> Nelson Sauvin is NZ-hop, right?
> My hop-sheet has it as a dual hop with grape fruit note as flavour.
> Seemingly high in Alpha acids I wonder what it's like for bittering.
> I seem to gone hopping mad lately and trying to avoid over hopping so I can enjoy a regular beer from time to time.
> ...


grape is one characteristic. I find a honey aspect early on if a larger late addition is used. Even some muted passionfruit was something my father commented on. It is a white wine like hop...
As far as I know Knappstein is the only current beer widely available beer using it, at least on it's own. Others may know better...
The first JS Hop Thief also used it, which was where I discovered it. THe second run of hop thief used US hops, and was a poorer beer for mine. 
I wouldn't necessarily classify lagers being made as NZ lagers just because they use a NZ hop. They probably aren't a particular style yet, more still classified, if you want to, under the style of beer you use as the base.


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## troydo (20/12/07)

Macs is NS? i love macs!


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## warrenlw63 (20/12/07)

Troydo said:


> Macs is NS? i love macs!



Same here. B) 

Hoprocker is NS and Cascade from memory.

Warren -


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## troydo (20/12/07)

Nice! well looks like i'll have to do an ns lager at some stage


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## coloneldom (21/12/07)

Didn't quite read all the previous posts so this may have been mentioned before. But I just had a beer called Knappstein Lager available at Dan Murphy stores (yes I do work there, only aas a casual but) that was awesome. It claims to be brewed using sauvin hops and has a really nice flavour, fruity and floral the bottle describes it as. Is this the same flavour everyone gets using nelson sauvin? If so Im gonna give it a go!


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## milpod (21/12/07)

Yes,but once used to it,you may be addicted 

For 18 months now.I have always had a version of NSSA on tap.Due to work and shit have not had time to brew.

Three weeks off,will resupply my fav simple ale.

I made a mistake only buying a 60L kettle.If buying a a Kettle,buy bigger you wont regret it .


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## matti (22/12/07)

I am sipping on a Knappstein Reserve lager from Clare Valley.
Its is a novelty beer that I don't think I'll ever acquire the taste for.
It is like drinking a musky chardonnay that has been carbonated.
Maybe a drop of Toohey New with an old grape in it. 
Awful is my verdict.
This hop may be blended in with cascade as an APA.
You may call me an uneducated buffon but this is taking a beer where it doesn't belong IMHO....
cheers 

edited I am struggling finnishing this one LOL


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## roger mellie (22/12/07)

matti said:


> I am sipping on a Knappstein Reserve lager from Clare Valley.
> Its is a novelty beer that I don't think I'll ever acquire the taste for.
> It is like drinking a musky chardonnay that has been carbonated.
> Maybe a drop of Toohey New with an old grape in it.
> ...



Ya reckon matti?

I dont get chardonnay - certainly not musk - all I get are crisp stonefruit and gooseberry flavours.

To each their own - no dramas with that - but I find the knapstien appealing on all fronts - clean, crisp and interesting.

I cant get enough of this hop

RM


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## shonky (22/12/07)

> You may call me an uneducated buffon but this is taking a beer where it doesn't belong IMHO....



Have to disagree Matti. Now I know this beer isn't to everyone's tastes (I absolutely LOVE it, my favourite Aussie brewed beer) but I think it is a good thing that beer can be pulled in many different directions. I believe it can only be a positive thing for the boundaries of beer to be stretched.

I was lucky enough to try Utopia from Sam Adams brewery in the states while down at the Ballarat Uni, it was the 2003 vintage and 25% alc! (I think this years' version is 27% and the strongest beer in the world). It was definately as far removed from 'beer' as antything I have ever tried but delicious none-the-less.

It tasted like a maple syrupy port and I reckon it would have gone really well with blue cheese. (at about 200USD a 330ml bottle I suppose you would expect it to be pretty special!)

Saying that I also tried their triple bock which was by far the most disgusting beer I have ever tried.

IMO it would be a boring world if we can't experiment with the limits of what people expect beer to be like.

Cheers and a merry xmas to all ahbers.


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## matti (22/12/07)

I am glad that you enjoy this beer and the experience.
I was expecting a Bavarian Style Lager and it was nothing like it.
Though I hate to categorize beer and put limits on what you can brew but this one merely didn't agree with me.

Happy brewing all


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## Darren (23/12/07)

matti said:


> I am glad that you enjoy this beer and the experience.
> I was expecting a Bavarian Style Lager and it was nothing like it.
> Though I hate to categorize beer and put limits on what you can brew but this one merely didn't agree with me.
> 
> Happy brewing all




Hey Matti,

In many ways I agree. The Knappstein was different and is Musky. I presume it is presented to "wine buffs" who, with their misses, can feel cunforble talking about grape and fruits.

It is a hop-flavour I do enjoy but am unsure I could get used to. Not enough bitterness for me (not something you want to mention to winos). I have tried a couple of HB versions. To me, all were similar to what I expected in a Kolsch given the description in BJCP guidelines for aroma and flavour (winey). 

Of note, the Koelsh's I had in Germany (only two) were anything other than what I expected and more like light bittered Aussie Swill.

cheers

Darren


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## bonj (23/12/07)

Howdy ya'll.... I've brewed 2 of these so far, the second being a low gravity version for Xmas, which was very tasty last night.

I find the Pacific Hallertauer to be a good match with Nelson Sauvin.

The recipe below if the first version... but they're both the same... just scaled back for the lower gravity version. This one turned out at 6.1%. It's dangerous... can't tell it's so high.... too easy to drink.


```
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com

Recipe: AG08 - Half Nelson Lager

Brewer: Bonj

Asst Brewer:

Style: Premium American Lager

TYPE: All Grain

Taste: (35.0)



Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Batch Size: 23.00 L

Boil Size: 28.44 L

Estimated OG: 1.049 SG

Estimated Color: 6.0 EBC

Estimated IBU: 25.6 IBU

Brewhouse Efficiency: 69.00 %

Boil Time: 90 Minutes



Ingredients:

------------

Amount		Item									  Type		 % or IBU

5.25 kg	   Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EGrain		100.00 %

10.00 gm	  Nelson Sauvin [11.90 %]  (60 min)		 Hops		 11.7 IBU

12.00 gm	  Pacific Hallertau [6.90 %]  (20 min)	  Hops		 4.9 IBU

12.00 gm	  Nelson Sauvin [11.90 %]  (20 min)		 Hops		 8.5 IBU

7.00 gm	   Pacific Hallertau [6.90 %]  (2 min)	   Hops		 0.4 IBU

2.00 gm	   KoppaFloc (Boil 15.0 min)				 Misc

11.00 gm	  PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min)		 Misc

1 Pkgs		SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189)  Yeast-Lager



Single infusion mash at 63deg.
```


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## milpod (24/12/07)

matti said:


> I am glad that you enjoy this beer and the experience.
> I was expecting a Bavarian Style Lager and it was nothing like it.
> Though I hate to categorize beer and put limits on what you can brew but this one merely didn't agree with me.
> 
> Happy brewing all




Hi Matti,

if I was expecting a german style beer,I would be extremely disappointed.(Dont think it was ever touted as a german/Cezh beer)

It is something a bit different,as said before if we didn't strive for different tastes/flavours we'd be condemned to the past.

Many new popular beers,have only been around since the 1970's.

While old traditional beers,definately have their place,so do modern ones.

Some of my favourite styles are old world,but i also have a love for some of the newer styles

But thats just me tho


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## enoch (5/1/08)

Brewed the following lager about 1/12. Can' say I'm a big fan of it as a lager it is so assertive that I don't get anything but NS. It does taste very Sauvignon Blanc like but hey I like that in my wine not my beer.

I am an Amarillo addict but wouldn't waste a lager on that either. Live and learn.

Does the flavour get any milder with time? 
Kevin07 Days Pilsner

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 42.00 Wort Size (L): 42.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.20
Anticipated OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.34
Anticipated SRM: 11.0
Anticipated IBU: 35.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
48.8 4.00 kg. Pilsner - Galaxy Australia 1.037 1
2.4 0.20 kg. Carafa (this was an accident - thought it was a v light crystal until I milled it) 
48.8 4.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Nelson Sauvin NZ Pellet 12.20 23.9 60 min.
35.00 g. Nelson Sauvin NZ Pellet 12.20 11.3 20 min.
30.00 g. Nelson Sauvin NZ Pellet 12.20 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast S-189 SafLager German Lager


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## razz (5/1/08)

I reckon it does Enoch. I've got a double batch thats about 8-9 weeks in the keg. I think the flavour has smoothed out from the initial two week tasting. I did use a lot of flavour hops but having said that I think it's a first class drop!


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## enoch (5/1/08)

Thanks Razz. I don't mind drinking it :chug: but it is just way bigger than I had expected and a bit of a shock against the nice Bo Pils on another tap which is subtle and a crowd favourite.


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## newguy (5/1/08)

I did a pale ale made with 100% NS and the wort fresh from the kettle almost burned. Not because the wort was hot (it was cooled), but because it had a really nasty pepper-alcohol cross kind of burn. Back of the throat burn. It did fade. I recently made an IPA made with a mixture of hops throughout. That mix was 40% glacier 40% target and 20% NS (by weight). It didn't have the same burn until I took a keg to my homebrew club meeting (yesterday actually) and when the sediment at the bottom of the keg got stirred up I detected the same burn. Once the beer cleared, the burn disappeared. Whatever causes it obviously settles out of the beer over time.

I've found that the character of this hop is a classic love it or hate it kind of thing. I really like it, but you're right that it can be overwhelming. The hop character of all beers tends to fade over time so be patient and it should become more to your liking. If you keg your beer you can accelerate the effect by venting the pressure from the keg often. Some of the hop's aromatic oils (responsible for flavour as well) will evaporate from the beer and help to mellow its character.


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## milpod (25/1/08)

Hi newguy,have you tried the ns with cascade,I for some reason got off side with cascade and stopped using it.Bad mistake
I have fallen in love with it again.

I really believe these two hops would work,on so many different levels,with each other.


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## Stuster (25/1/08)

I'm not newguy but I have used NS and Cascade. Worked well for me and did ok in the Bathurst comp IIRC. I'd say go for it. Next time I use NS I'm thinking I'd try another combination. Either Amarillo for a full on fruit salad effect, or Pacific Hallertau as a moderating influence. Hmm, decisions decisions.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (25/1/08)

My last use of NS also used Amarillo and Chinook. I put some of it in a party keg for a gathering of friends and did not get to taste it.

I don't mind it myself!


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## Brewer_010 (25/1/08)

Stuster said:


> I'm not newguy but I have used NS and Cascade. Worked well for me and did ok in the Bathurst comp IIRC. I'd say go for it. Next time I use NS I'm thinking I'd try another combination. Either Amarillo for a full on fruit salad effect, or Pacific Hallertau as a moderating influence. Hmm, decisions decisions.



I have a wheat beer with 25g d-saaz and 15g NS flowers dry hopped (I wanted to test the match)...holy shit! Talk about fruity - it's actually really nice but for future beers I will be upping the malt to balance it a bit. As a lawn mower beer it is great, really refreshing. My wife reckons it tastes like guavas.
I am drinking another (summer ale) beer bittered with amarillo, with NS and amarillo flavour/aroma and its a nice, refined, fruity flavour.

I'd like to try a NS - Cascade beer, do you have any other details on your one?

Cheers.


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## milpod (25/1/08)

Well I dont wont A FULL ON fruit affect,might have to drag some southern cross thru it,bit of green bullet maybe


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## Stuster (25/1/08)

I'm actually away from home this weekend, and I just remember it as a nice mix.  Will try to post something next week when I can look at my notes, but it got second in the Bathurst comp so it must have been ok. B)


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## Brewer_010 (25/1/08)

Stuster said:


> I'm actually away from home this weekend, and I just remember it as a nice mix.  Will try to post something next week when I can look at my notes, but it got second in the Bathurst comp so it must have been ok. B)



cool, PM me if you can - I'll probably forget to look this thread up in a week or so... :chug:


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## domonsura (25/1/08)

I used Hallertau Pacific and NS in a brew recently Stuster, it was OK but I did get the feeling that the NS was somewhat hidden behind the pacific. I didn't really get any of those raved about flavours as they were all a bit muted.

I'd be interested to see what it would be like with Amarillo and Cascade respectively. I haven't actually used cascade as yet,( not enough time spent brewing unfortunately but it's on the list) but I do think the Amarillo and NS would be well matched in 'amarillo moderation', as I think the subtleties of NS are easy to mute out.


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## newguy (26/1/08)

milpod said:


> Hi newguy,have you tried the ns with cascade,I for some reason got off side with cascade and stopped using it.Bad mistake
> I have fallen in love with it again.
> 
> I really believe these two hops would work,on so many different levels,with each other.



No, I've only used NS twice so far and neither time involved cascade. I think you're right, though, that the two would mix quite well.


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## Jazman (26/1/08)

i have done apa with those 3 not bad a bit of fruit salad needs to be balanced


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## Hargie (26/1/08)

...nelson sauvin....off milk and grape seed...what a good profile to add to a beer....ppfttt..


....count me as part of the group , who in 5 years says "nelson who ? ".....



...yes, i know i might be the only one in that group....


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## domonsura (27/1/08)

Hargie said:


> ...nelson sauvin....off milk and grape seed...what a good profile to add to a beer....ppfttt..
> ....count me as part of the group , who in 5 years says "nelson who ? ".....
> ...yes, i know i might be the only one in that group....




Off milk and grape seed? Never heard it described that way before......


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## Guest Lurker (27/1/08)

Hargie said:


> ..
> ....count me as part of the group , who in 5 years says "nelson who ? ".....
> ...yes, i know i might be the only one in that group....



Hey Hargie
In 5 years time I will be hiring a venue for the "Amarillo is NOT the new Cascade" group. I think that one will only need a small corner, so your group can use one of the other corners.


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## Hargie (27/1/08)

domonsura said:


> Off milk and grape seed? Never heard it described that way before......




...yeah , i know but the last Knappstein i had gave me exactly that....


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## Hargie (27/1/08)

Guest Lurker said:


> Hey Hargie
> In 5 years time I will be hiring a venue for the "Amarillo is NOT the new Cascade" group. I think that one will only need a small corner, so your group can use one of the other corners.




....haha....yeah...maybe we'll look as silly as those idiots who didn't sign The Beatles.... :lol:


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