# Style Of The Week 28/3/07 - Bohemian Pilsner



## Stuster (28/3/07)

With winter seemingly on the way, a brewer's thoughts turn to lagers. So this week, we'll look at the style that spawned a thousand beers, Bohemian Pilsner.

Some articles on this classic style below.
G&G Beer of the Month
Oakes' rant on pilsners
BT article on Pilsner Urquell


So what are your experiences with this style? Which grains? Decoction? Mash temp? Which hops?  Pellets, plugs or flowers.  Which yeast to use? Is there any dry yeast that's possible with this style? What temperature did you do your fermentation at? How long do you lager? Can this style be done by partial mashers or kit brewers?

So tell us all you know so we can make yummy beer. :chug: 

BJCP Style 2A



> 2B. Bohemian Pilsener
> 
> Aroma: Rich with complex malt and a spicy, floral Saaz hop bouquet. Some diacetyl is acceptable, but need not be present. Otherwise clean, with no fruity esters.
> 
> ...


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## tangent (28/3/07)

tough nut to crack, but a great style

i started off with overly complex recipes:
Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
German Pilsner Malt 3.40 kg 49.3 % In Mash/Steeped
German Bohemian Pilsner Malt 3.00 kg 43.5 % In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Pils 0.25 kg 3.6 % In Mash/Steeped
German CaraAmber 0.15 kg 2.2 % In Mash/Steeped
German Wheat Malt 0.05 kg 0.7 % In Mash/Steeped
German Sauer(Acid) Malt 0.05 kg 0.7 % In Mash/Steeped
edit - Jaysus that malt bill is embarrassing!

Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
NZ Green Bullet 12.0 15 g Pelletized Hops 60 Min From End
Czech Saaz 3.3 50 g Pelletized Hops 40 Min From End
NZ Pacific Hallertau 6.0 20 g Loose Whole Hops 20 Min From End
Czech Saaz 3.3 16 g Loose Whole Hops 15 Min From End
NZ Pacific Hallertau 6.0 5 g Loose Whole Hops 10 Min From End
edit - and that's along the lines of a "Kiwi Mongrel"

and ended up with:
Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
German Bohemian Pilsner Malt 7.50 kg 85.2 % In Mash/Steeped
German Pilsner Malt 1.20 kg 13.6 % In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Pils 0.10 kg 1.1 % In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
Czech Saaz 3.3 66 g Pelletized Hops First Wort Hopped
NZ Sticklebract 13.5 27 g Pelletized Hops First Wort Hopped
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 5.0 15 g Loose Whole Hops 5 Min From End
Czech Saaz 3.3 10 g Pelletized Hops 5 Min From End

still changing them to be even more simple and piss the carapils off all together.

Next one will be something like this:

Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
German Bohemian Pilsner Malt 9.00 kg 94.7 % In Mash/Steeped
German Melanoidin Malt 0.50 kg 5.3 % In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
German Tettnang 4.5 140 g Loose Whole Hops 60 Min From End
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 5.0 15 g Loose Whole Hops 5 Min From End

So i guess I'm trying to say, I like a clean bitterness and not much flavour hop, and a dry finish. Even if it attenuates well, it can be hard to get the dry finish it needs for my tastes.


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## Duff (28/3/07)

My lager fridge just has continuing attempts at this style, it doesn't stop. Hopefully I'll get it right by December 31  This is the latest bubbling away at present.

Cheers.

----------

07-08 Pilsner II

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.25
Anticipated OG: 1.049 Plato: 12.15
Anticipated SRM: 3.2
Anticipated IBU: 44.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
97.0 8.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
3.0 0.25 kg. Weyermann Carapils Germany 1.037 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20.00 g. NZ 'B' Saaz Whole 7.00 10.4 First WH
30.00 g. NZ 'B' Saaz Whole 7.00 15.7 60 min.
30.00 g.  NZ 'B' Saaz Whole 7.00 11.9 40 min.
30.00 g. NZ 'B' Saaz Whole 7.00 4.2 15 min.
30.00 g. NZ 'B' Saaz Whole 7.00 2.6 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP800 Pilsner Lager


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## goatherder (28/3/07)

How does the NZ B Saaz go in the style Duff? Is it close enough to fool a Czech Saaz purist?


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## Duff (28/3/07)

goatherder said:


> How does the NZ B Saaz go in the style Duff? Is it close enough to fool a Czech Saaz purist?



I'll tell you in a couple of weeks :lol: It's only down to 1.031 today. I do plan to do the same receipe with some fresh Czech Saaz plugs I picked up from Ross on Monday. I'll bottle a couple and do a side by side.

Cheers.


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## Ross (28/3/07)

goatherder said:


> How does the NZ B Saaz go in the style Duff? Is it close enough to fool a Czech Saaz purist?



Goatherder,

Though similar to Czech Saaz, they are far more citrusy in both taste & aroma. Montieths Pilsner is made from straight B Saaz I believe, so give it a try.
Duff had my B Saaz lager the other night, but it has a small addition of cascade & Nelson Sauvin on the finish.

cheers Ross


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## Dr Gonzo (28/3/07)

The last one i did was a single infusion. 
The first and last single infusion lager/pilsner i'll ever do.
My best results have been with decoction mashing.
I only ever use Weyermann bo pils malt and Czech saaz plugs for this style.

I've tried and liked wyeast 2124 & 2278 in the past. 
34/70 dry yeast let me down.
Have a 2000 Budvar & a Staropramen yeast in the fridge ready for the next one.
Will split a 40L batch and let them go head to head.


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## AndrewQLD (28/3/07)

Spent a lot of time trying to get this style right, I found a 60,40,20 regime for my hop additions has greatly improved my Bo-Pils, seems to give a good rounded bitterness and flavour.


Cheers
Andrew

Brewer: Andrew Clark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Bohemian Pilsner
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 31.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 3.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) 46.2 % 
3.00 kg Pilsner Malt Powells (1.5 SRM) Grain 46.2 % 
0.50 kg Vienna Malt Powells (4.1 SRM) Grain 7.7 % 
55.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (60 min) Hops 16.5 IBU 
55.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (40 min) Hops 14.4 IBU 
55.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (20 min) Hops 10.0 IBU 
1 Pkgs Budvar 2000 (Wyeast) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Lager 


Mash Schedule: Batch Sparge medium body
Total Grain Weight: 6.50 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 19.50 L of water at 74.8 C 67.0 C 60 min


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## tangent (28/3/07)

> 34/70 dry yeast let me down.


 What happened DrGonzo??


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## Dr Gonzo (28/3/07)

> 34/70 dry yeast let me down.
> What happened DrGonzo??



Ive used it a few times. Always made drinkable beer, Just never as good as when i used a liquid yeast.

One time i split a batch and fermented half with 34/70 dry and the other with the wyeast bohemian lager.
They are supposedly the same yeast in different forms. Both were pitched and fermented at 8C.
The 34/70 took off much quicker and finished first. Tasted good into secondary. It looked like it was going to be the better beer.

After 2 months of lagering at 1C, the beer fermented with the liquid yeast was much better than the one with the dry yeast. Dryer, cleaner, clearer.

I keep a couple of sachets of 34/70 in the fridge in case of emergency, but will always opt for a liquid yeast.


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## blackbock (28/3/07)

Some more background information on

Pils/Pilsener

PS That is a cool site. There are heaps of other beer styles on there that BJCP guidelines don't cover.


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## Stuster (28/3/07)

Nice find, blackbock. :super:


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## Kai (28/3/07)

goatherder said:


> How does the NZ B Saaz go in the style Duff? Is it close enough to fool a Czech Saaz purist?



Chalk and cheese imo. I've only tasted Saaz B a couple times and it was cheek to cheek passionfruit.


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## brendanos (30/3/07)

I think it has definate spicy/herbal characteristics typical of the classic saaz (as well as hints of various tropical fruits), though I have had mixed results depending on the beer it is used in. I suggest age/vintage/weather/lunar cycle may also influence batch variation.


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## hockadays (30/3/07)

Ive just brewed this style as well,

Weyermann Bo Pils 3.8kg
Weyermann Munich .5kg
Weyermann Carapils .2kg

Og 1.051 for 21.5 L

Northen Brewer for 30IBU
Czech Saaz Pellets 15gs @ 40mins and 10mins
Czech Saaz Pellets 25gs @ 2 mins

I mashed in at 55degc for 15mins then at 67degc for and hour.

With the boPils malt the protein rest makes a large differnce to the hot and cold break.

Mines bubbling away as we speak and is down to 1.036 in 4 days with the help from MR White Labs 802 Czech Budejovice Lager at 11degc..

giddy up


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## facter (2/4/07)

well ... not being an all-grainer im attempting to do a partial mash ... its actually quite hard to get the gravity right using extract and not get the srm over 5 ... ive had to fudge by using a bit of honey (tha i found in a promash recipe, won a medal, good enough for me) and a little wheat to boost it up but not pull the color up beyond about 5 - atm its right on the mark as is .. i also dont want to go too much higher on the grain content, as its already pushing the limits of what i think i can do with a partial mash.

Any suggestions would be appreciated .. this wil be my first pils, and indeed my very first lager, so id appreciate any comments  Bohemians are my favorite lager, which is why im doing this one as my first.

Partial to Bohemian

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 22.00 
Anticipated OG: 1.049 
Anticipated SRM: 4.9
Anticipated IBU: 43.0
Wort Boil Time: 60 



Grain/ Extract/ Sugar

% Amount Name 

24.4 1.00 kg. Generic DME - Light 
12.2 0.50 kg. Munich Malt 
48.8 2.00 kg. Pils malt 
7.3 0.30 kg. Wheat Malt 
7.3 0.30 kg. Honey 


Hops

25.00 g. Hallertauer 60 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz 50 min.
10.00 g. Hallertauer 30 min.
40.00 g. Czech Saaz 30 min.
20.00 g. Czech Saaz 10 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz Dry Hop



Yeast
-----

WYeast 2124 Bohemian Lager


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## tangent (2/4/07)

> Have a 2000 Budvar & a Staropramen yeast in the fridge ready for the next one.
> Will split a 40L batch and let them go head to head.


well i saw the decoction and boil, 

when's the tasting session?


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## Dr Gonzo (3/4/07)

> Have a 2000 Budvar & a Staropramen yeast in the fridge ready for the next one.
> Will split a 40L batch and let them go head to head.
> 
> well i saw the decoction and boil, View attachment 11962
> when's the tasting session?



3 months. Can you wait that long?
Thats if these [email protected]*kn yeast starters get going some time soon.
Another 2 smack packs that never swelled.
Pitched them into starters anyway.
Now 48 hours later, very little sign of activity.
They were less than 2 months old.
I think Mr you know who froze his yeast again.


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## tangent (3/4/07)

i've had 2 packs that took ages to swell from Mr.Uknowwho
one was an ESB ale yeast that i would have thought would have taken off like a rocket!

want to borrow some dried yeast? 

edit - 3 months? I'll write it on the calendar


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## Yeasty (3/4/07)

Ive got a can of Coopers premium selection here (free courtesy of coopers) so i wanna use it up.

Ive also got some carapils here, and czech saaz.

Was thinking of 

1.7 can Pilsener
1.5 can light malt extract
200g carapils

30.00 g. Czech Saaz 60 min.
20.00 g. Czech Saaz 10 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz Dry Hop

Can anyone give me some tips on what to change, and a good dry yeast to use?

thanks


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## mika (5/4/07)

In Dry yeast there's really only one choice I think, W34/70.
I'm trying to think if there's a way to get away from boiling the kit and still getting the hop bitterness into as any boiling may well darken the malt a little...maybe it's not worth worrying about.
Guess you could go a real light sugar soln (~1030 using some of the LME) to boil the hops and get good extraction then throw everything else in 5min from the end.

Just my thoughts on the matter, don't know if they're worth 2c


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## bugwan (6/4/07)

It's barely on topic, but I visited the Pilsener Urquell Brewery in Plzn a few years back. On the tour, I got chatting to one of the assistants in the cellar (lined with dozens of huge casks). A taste was allowed for visitors, so I savoured the flavour of the real thing, bright from the cask. Unbelievable!
About 40 minutes later, my new mate (whose only English was the word "another?") and I stumbled out of the cellars and into the light of day. Such a great memory...!

Good luck brewing up this elusive lager... If only I had room in my keg fridge for a fermenter. I'll have to wait until the depths of a Melbourne winter before getting going.


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## drsmurto (19/9/07)

Sorry for reviving an old thread but am new to AG and playing the catch up game on all these threads.

Am thinking of brewing a pilsner, starting of very simple to get an idea of the style before complicating things. From what i have read in this and the saaz thread its quite a difficult beer to nail.

I love Budvar so want to go the all Saaz route but the current batch of Saaz is only 2.2% AA. Not really practical to bitter with? Could i cheat and get 20-25IBUs with NB first and then hit it with late additions of Saaz. Or add some Saaz to bitter with as well?

Was also thinking of using 100% bo pils, mashing low, 64. I realise a lot of people step mash, or decoct but i want to start of basic and see what effect each of these methods does to the end result.

Yeast - if i can get it, wyeast 2000. Otherwise, 2278.

Comments?

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## tangent (19/9/07)

use the saaz, just use more!


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## sluggerdog (19/9/07)

If you want to use something with a higher % try some Saaz B, won't be to style however it will come though nicely. 

Probably making it a better beer then using all saaz IMO.

So Saaz B for bitter, finish with normal Saaz.

Edit: For the Bo Pils Malt, I personally wasn't happy with it unless I did a step mash. Now I can't be bothered and use Weyermann Pilsner with 5% Melanoidian.


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## Stuster (19/9/07)

DrSmurto said:


> Sorry for reviving an old thread



Great. Exactly what I hope will happen to these threads. :super:  

I certainly think you could use NB for bittering. I used Magnum for the last Bo Pils I did (first and only for this year  ) and it does seem to have worked out pretty well. I'm a novice with lagers though, so Tangent may well be right.


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## tangent (19/9/07)

depends if you like citrus IMO. Kiwi hops seem to be very lemony to me.
i'd rather use Bsaaz than Northern Brewer though, but I can't stand NB.


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## drsmurto (19/9/07)

Well i was hoping to keep it simple and traditional so i guess i need to keep it all Saaz.

180g seems overkill tho......

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 28.62 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 6.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.50 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 100.00 % 
120.00 gm Saaz [2.20 %] (60 min) Hops 25.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz [2.20 %] (30 min) Hops 4.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz [2.20 %] (10 min) Hops 2.3 IBU 
1 Pkgs Budvar Lager (Wyeast Labs #2000) [Starter Yeast-Lager 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 69.8 C 64.0 C


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## tangent (19/9/07)

more hop flavour, more hop filtration, it's all good! just low a/a.


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## matti (23/9/07)

Just a snip from Blackbock links earlier in the thread.

The barley malt that goes into Pils-making, nowadays, is the palest malt available. In fact, such malt is named for the beer for which it is most often used. Brewers the world over now make their best Pils beer only with Pils malt and the best Pils malt comes from Bavarian farms and malting companies. 

Unfortunately, several industrial lagers named Pilsner outside of Germany are frequently made with the addition of flavorless rice and corn as cheap starch substitutes for the more expensive Pils malt, and many breweries use chemical agents to enhance the conversion of grain starches into fermentable sugars. Such shortcuts, however, are never ever practiced in a Bavarian brewhouse! 


Still waiting for me ag gear buhhhwaaah


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## Zwickel (23/9/07)

well said matti, youre a proud defender of the German beer culture, your words coming straight from my heart


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## mika (23/9/07)

Zwickel, whatever happened to your experiment with a no-stepped Pilsener, is that in a different thread ?
Was interested to read your follow up on it all.


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## Zwickel (23/9/07)

mika_lika said:


> Zwickel, whatever happened to your experiment with a no-stepped Pilsener, is that in a different thread ?
> Was interested to read your follow up on it all.


hello mika_lika,
that beer is still maturing, havent try it yet. But soon it will be on tap, Ill keep you updated 

Cheers


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## mika (23/9/07)

Zwickel said:


> hello mika_lika,
> that beer is still maturing, havent try it yet. But soon it will be on tap, Ill keep you updated
> 
> Cheers



Cool...I wait with a bag of malt in anticipation


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (24/9/07)

Stuster said:


> Great. Exactly what I hope will happen to these threads. :super:
> 
> I certainly think you could use NB for bittering. I used Magnum for the last Bo Pils I did (first and only for this year  ) and it does seem to have worked out pretty well. I'm a novice with lagers though, so Tangent may well be right.



And I will be doing exactly the same as you Stuster with my next pils attempt (Magnum for bittering), and adding about 90g of Saaz for flavour and aroma in the last 30 minutes of the boil.

C&B
TDA


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## Stuster (24/9/07)

I used 85g of Saaz in the last 20 minutes, 60g at 20 and 25g at 5. I've sent a bottle in to ANAWBS so we'll see what the judges make of it.


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## Duff (24/9/07)

Super Alpha also is very good for bittering in a Pilsner, very clean.

Here's the one I did yesterday.


07-42 Pilsner VII

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.00
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.81
Anticipated SRM: 3.1
Anticipated IBU: 39.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
100.0 8.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
42.00 g. Super Alpha Pellet 11.00 30.1 60 min.
100.00 g. Czech Saaz Plug 2.20 8.7 20 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz Plug 2.20 0.7 5 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast S-189 SafLager German Lager


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## Zwickel (24/9/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> ....adding about 90g of Saaz for flavour and aroma in the last 30 minutes of the boil.





> may I ask how big your batch is?
> 
> for a 60L batch Im using around 35g of Saazer hops, thats quite a lot for arome :huh:


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## blackbock (24/9/07)

I'm more worried about that picture in Duff's sig...


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## dc59 (9/8/08)

Hey brewers just wondering on what peoples thoughts are on S-189 dry yeast for a Bo Pils?

Here is the recipe I'm considering 
21L batch.
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 80.00 % 
1.00 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 20.00 % 
20.00 gm Magnum [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 27.9 IBU 
10.00 gm Saaz [4.20 %] (15 min) Hops 2.2 IBU 
10.00 gm Saaz [4.20 %] (10 min) Hops 1.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Saaz [4.20 %] (0 min) Hops - 

My only other two attempts at the style were done with JW pilsner malt with small amounts of crystal and wheat. Saaz used throughout with 5-10grams of super alpha to help the IBU's, I enjoyed both. 

Never used Magnum, S-189 or Weyermann Pilsner so this should be a fun brew day tomorrow  . 

Thanks David


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/8/08)

Dravid said:


> Hey brewers just wondering on what peoples thoughts are on S-189 dry yeast for a Bo Pils?
> 
> Here is the recipe I'm considering
> 21L batch.
> ...


I have never used the dry yeast before for this style.I would myself not use the munich but Vienna instead.Add some acid malt if you need to lower the pH (3% is usually a good start point) IBU sounds ok, dont know about the Magnum, what profile will it add ? Go for it as you like ,Im sure it will be very drinkable.My favorite style.
GB


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## Stuster (9/8/08)

I can't exactly answer, David, but I've got a bo pils just starting to ferment now with that same yeast and I'm hoping it works out. All Saaz is the way I guess but I also cheated and used Northern Brewer for bittering. Magnum should work too. That's a fair amount of Munich there but it should make a tasty beer as well. I do prefer the Wey Munich though. :icon_drool2:


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## dc59 (9/8/08)

Thanks boys, I'm contemplating possibly using some crystal as well, but if I do I'll probably just go

4.75kg pils
0.25kg crystal

for a malt bill. Guess I'll see what I feel like tomorrow morning and make a decision than.

Gb, unfortunately I don't know what profile the magnum will add as I've never used it before. Hopefully it'll be good, its a bit of an experiment I guess  .


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/8/08)

Dravid said:


> Thanks boys, I'm contemplating possibly using some crystal as well, but if I do I'll probably just go
> 
> 4.75kg pils
> 0.25kg crystal
> ...


Dont go the crystal, if you are thinking that , go back to Munich malt. Crystal is going to put your brew way out of style.A Boh will work with just the pils anyway.NO crystal.
GB


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## mika (9/8/08)

Think you'll be impressed with the Wey Pils. The Pils base and Munich colouring is a nice simple recipe and they generally work out the best. Looks good, can't comment on the dry yeast though.


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## edoeven (11/8/08)

anyone here have an idea of how Tasmanian grown Saaz (3.6%AA) compares to Czech saaz, as far as taste and aroma goes?

picked up a kg of them from Ebay and planning to use them in some pilsners for summer!


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## Steve (11/8/08)

Dravid said:


> Hey brewers just wondering on what peoples thoughts are on S-189 dry yeast for a Bo Pils?



:beerbang: nuff said!
Cheers
Steve


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## 3G (14/9/08)

What decoction schedule would be good for this style
recipe so far is as follows

Batch Size (L): 40.40 Wort Size (L): 40.40
Total Grain (kg): 8.85
Anticipated OG: 1.052 Plato: 12.89
Anticipated SRM: 4.5
Anticipated IBU: 35.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
83.1 7.35 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
16.9 1.50 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
98.01 g. Czech Saaz Whole 4.00 28.7 60 min.
30.69 g. Czech Saaz Whole 4.00 4.6 30 min.
30.69 g. Czech Saaz Whole 4.00 1.8 10 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 2124 Bohemian Lager


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (2/11/08)

Zwickel said:


> may I ask how big your batch is?
> 
> for a 60L batch Im using around 35g of Saazer hops, thats quite a lot for arome :huh:



Just looking through this thread again as I want to brew another Bo Pils and saw this Zwickel.
My batch size is 23L after the boil. I didn't end up brewing this because the AA of the Czech Saaz is so low, around 2.2%.
Now I am rethinking using it along with Super Alpha as the bittering hop.
I need to do a search because I know there is a thread here somewhere with a lot of input from you, master of Pils :icon_cheers: 


C&B
TDA


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## SJW (5/11/08)

This recipe and mash shedule has been my best effort at this style yet. It is a hard one to get spot on.

#73 Pilsner 
Bohemian Pilsner 


Type: All Grain
Date: 18/09/2008 
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 31.86 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg - Lager 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5000.00 gm Premium Pilsner (Weyermann) (2.2 EBC) Grain 83.33 % 
1000.00 gm Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 16.67 % 
25.00 gm Super Alpha [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 27.8 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (40 min) Hops 8.1 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (20 min) Hops 5.6 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) Yeast-Lager 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.13 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.08 % 
Bitterness: 41.6 IBU Calories: 511 cal/l 
Est Color: 8.3 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Decoction Mash, Tripple Total Grain Weight: 6000.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 22.87 L Grain Temperature: 15.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 76.0 C TunTemperature: 15.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Decoction Mash, Tripple Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
5 min Protein Rest Add 15.00 L of water at 61.1 C 55.0 C 
20 min Saccharification Decoct 3.36 L of mash and boil it 63.0 C 
40 min Saccharification Decoct 5.11 L of mash and boil it 73.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Decoct 2.10 L of mash and boil it 76.0 C


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## Fourstar (5/11/08)

Hey Steve,

How did the KG of munich go? I would have thaught the pils+munich AND a decoction Mash would have given it a BIIIG rich maltyness much like a munich dunkel. Was you're colour the same as quoted in the recipe @ 8.3SRM? Was it big on the breadcrust aroma or enough pils to restrain it?


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## drsmurto (5/11/08)

Steve - why is it that you say this is your best pils yet and its triple decocted yet in another post you say decoctions arent worth the effort?

I'm confused. :huh: 

Recipe looks delish tho!


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## SJW (5/11/08)

I guess what I am saying I think the recipe made it great rather than the decoction. For some reason with my Bo Pils I am always looking for that 5 or 10% of something to add to the Pils and the Munich worked a treat. And it is very big and malty but as thats just about all I do these days I suspect I am slightly amuned now. Thats why I am attempting a German Pilsner next to try and recalibrate my palete.
But I would not rush out and do a tripple decoction again. I will try this recipe single infusion again soon and see. I guess it was as good as thought it would be but not 1000% better by doing a decoction, if u get me.
And the colour is right on, still pretty light.

Steve


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## drsmurto (7/11/08)

SJW said:


> I guess what I am saying I think the recipe made it great rather than the decoction. For some reason with my Bo Pils I am always looking for that 5 or 10% of something to add to the Pils and the Munich worked a treat. And it is very big and malty but as thats just about all I do these days I suspect I am slightly amuned now. Thats why I am attempting a German Pilsner next to try and recalibrate my palete.
> But I would not rush out and do a tripple decoction again. I will try this recipe single infusion again soon and see. I guess it was as good as thought it would be but not 1000% better by doing a decoction, if u get me.
> And the colour is right on, still pretty light.
> 
> Steve



Always interested in someone taking a scientific approach to their brewing.

If you do brew the same recipe with a single infusion i would be interested to hear your results.

My last Bo Pils had a decoction but its too hard to say how it contributed to the overall beer. I did miss temps putting the boiled malt back in and had to add water to hit temps. 

The keg went with me camping and mates drained it in 24h.

Judges at SABSOSA picked diacetyl (a fault of the ferment, not the mash).

The bottles i have left aren't flash. Something not right about it but i cant pick the diacetyl as a butterscotch flavour/aroma - its got a funny mouthfeel too it, almost soapy?

So i need to repeat the experiment. I have a dunkel lagering away now that i did a double decoction. Just waiting for a tap to free up so i can try it.


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## SJW (16/3/09)

Just though I would fire up the ol Pil thread again. I will be brewing this next. I have stepped up a Wyeast Budvar 2000 that was 1 week old. I am sorry to all the decoction die hards but not worth the effort IMO. Single infusions for me I think. I will be interested to see how this one comes out. Still dont know if I should use the Hallertauer or Saaz?

#89 Boh Pilsner 
Bohemian Pilsner 


Type: All Grain
Date: 18/03/2009 
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 31.86 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Gear 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5500.00 gm Premium Pilsner (Weyermann) (2.2 EBC) Grain 91.67 % 
500.00 gm Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 8.33 % 
50.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.50 %] (60 min) Hops 31.0 IBU 
45.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [2.80 %] (20 min) Hops 7.3 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Budvar Lager (Wyeast Labs #2000) Yeast-Lager 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.91 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 % 
Bitterness: 38.3 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l 
Est Color: 6.7 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 6000.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 12.87 L Grain Temperature: 20.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 20.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 74.1 C 67.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 91.6 C 76.0 C


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## Stuster (16/3/09)

Go the Saaz, Steve. Such a good hop! :beerbang:


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## SJW (16/3/09)

OK you talked me into it. I have got some T45 pellets at 4% that should do the trick.


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## warra48 (16/3/09)

I have this one fermenting at present.

Boil Time: 90 Minutes
OG 1.059
23 litres

4500.00 gm Premium Pilsner (2.5 EBC) 90.00 % 
500.00 gm Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) 10.00 % 
20.00 gm Saaz T45 [4.50 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hops 11.7 IBU 
5.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60 %] (80 min) 3.8 IBU 
12.00 gm Super Alpha [12.20 %] (80 min) 16.7 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz T45 [4.50 %] (20 min) 7.4 IBU 
Starter Urquell Lager (Wyeast #WY2001)

Doughed in 52.5C 30 min.
Decocted and added back to mash. 66.2C 40 min.
Decocted and added back to mash 73C 30 minutes.
23 litres into fermenter OG 1.059.


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## chappo1970 (16/3/09)

I so want to brew a Bohemian Pilsner but need to clear the ever increasing back log into the ferment fridge. I need to bite the bullet and do a double batch or a double brew day where I throw a Pilsner and a lager I guess.


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## tangent (16/3/09)

Delightful beer to drink, c%#t of a beer to brew. A tiny trace of diacetyl or DMS f^*ks the whole batch for me. 

There is step mashing, that's somewhere in between single infusions and triple decoctions.

I'd only single infuse beers like APA's


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## drsmurto (17/3/09)

There are decoctions and then there are decoctions...... h34r: 

Depending on time and motivation i have been known to pull the grain out for a decoction and simply boil it (rather than taking the long way and stepping it up to 63, resting, 70, resting, then boiling). Single, double so far, yet to tackle the triple. 

Even if i wasnt able to taste the difference, the smell of boiling grain is 10x better than the smell of a normal mash. :icon_cheers: 

And yes Tangent, multi infusions are also the go, no harder than single infusions. After reading a few books DrGonzo lent me i use a 51/63/71/78 combo for pilsners and even the last kolsch.

DrGonzo still decocts his APAs!


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## mje1980 (30/4/10)

I have this on tap at the moment. Very malty, and even though it came down to 1.010, it has nice body, not thin, but not too much. Very impressed with JW export pils. The hops balance the maltiness beautifully.

97.1% JW Export pils
1.9% Melanoiden ( wey )
1% Biscuit ( dingemans )

Motueka at 60,30,15,10,5

S189

1.047
1.010

34 IBU

66c mash, with equal additions of Calc Chloride, and Gypsum, and a little epsom salts too. 12-14c ferment for 2 weeks, crash chilled, gelatin added, then kegged.



It's a golden yellow colour and is tasting great, the motueka is lovely!


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## Fourstar (30/4/10)

mje1980 said:


> I have this on tap at the moment. Very malty, and even though it came down to 1.010, it has nice body, not thin, but not too much. Very impressed with JW export pils. The hops balance the maltiness beautifully.
> 
> 97.1% JW Export pils
> 1.9% Melanoiden ( wey )
> 1% Biscuit ( dingemans )



Im also a fan of JW Pils. Considering its 1/2 the price of weyermann and has a great sweet pilsner malt palate, you cant go wrong really. I do notice its somewhat sweeter than weyermann and weyermann has a doughy palate. I would have to say the JW goes really well in a Bohemian. Interestingly i also find it goes well as a APA base malt, avoid using crystals and bulk it out with specialties like munich, biscuit etc. :icon_cheers: 

How was the hop profile with the sulfate addition? Still soft hop palate or sharper? What kind of ppm range or chloride to sulfate ratio where you shooting for? Im planning on a Bohemian when the months get a little colder and was thinking of using just CaCl to avoid as much suflate as i can.

Interested to know the results as it could change the hop profile and seem somewhat dryer like a German Pils.

Cheers.


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## mje1980 (30/4/10)

Hop profile was softer than a german pils, the hops seemed to come in after the big malty hit. Definately not muted though, very balanced. Our water here is quite soft, so i added equal amounts of the gypsum and also chloride to aim for a balance, between malty and crisp bitterness. 

I think maybe using all gypsum it may have ended up a little more crisp and bitter ( not more IBU's, but the bitterness might be more pronounced? ), but im no expert. 

I know i use 7g total salts for a single batch, and 14g for a double, and figure out salts from there. In this case, 7g each gypsum and chloride. The epsom salt i believe is just an extra help to get the PH down. 

All i know is its the best balanced pils i've made so far. Not that i make many, but still the best.


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## donburke (10/5/10)

I have 5kg of floor malted bohemian pilsner that I plan on making a pilsner with, i also intend on using;

1.5% melanoidin
3.5% carapils

i intend on doing a step mash

15min @ 52
45min @ 63
30min @ 72
10min @ 78 mashout

i'll be using wy2001 & saaz hops

does anyone know if the floor malt pilsner needs a protein rest @ 52 ?

i remember reading that a protein rest can degrade head & body if the malt is well modified

also, any comments on my additions of 3.5% carapils and 1.5% melanoidin to my grain bill, as well as my mash schedule are appreciated

i'm trying to make something along the lines of PU without decoction, so if anyone has anything to add, please let me know, 

thanks


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## dent (10/5/10)

donburke said:


> i remember reading that a protein rest can degrade head & body if the malt is well modified



I use the floor pils a lot, with a protein rest as that is the default on my system - I have had no lack of body as a result, really it is on the higher end of the scale. Clarity is very good too. Head on the other hand I think is a bit lacking, so the last couple I have been skipping the protein rest, hopefully the clarity (chill haze mainly) does not suffer too much.


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## donburke (10/5/10)

hi dent,

do you use anything else in your grist apart from the floor malted pils ? carapils or similar ?



dent said:


> I use the floor pils a lot, with a protein rest as that is the default on my system - I have had no lack of body as a result, really it is on the higher end of the scale. Clarity is very good too. Head on the other hand I think is a bit lacking, so the last couple I have been skipping the protein rest, hopefully the clarity (chill haze mainly) does not suffer too much.


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## dent (10/5/10)

My default recipe is currently the following:

5kg floor pils
150g carapils
100g melanoidin

55 15 min
63 30 min
68 30 min
77 20 min

45g cz saaz @60
25g cz saaz @30
45g cz saaz @0

2278 yeast

I would back off on the 0-min addition if you are no-chilling however.

Really though I have made this with just 100% floor pils and it has been mostly as good. Brewing technique, fermentation, etc make a bigger difference.


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## neonmeate (11/5/10)

i just brewed a beer with the bohemian floor pils (+10% carahell) and just did an infusion at 65. clearest beer ive made for a while.


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## Batz (11/5/10)

I did my Bohemian Pilsner again yesterday, this is a style I have been playing with for a couple of years now. Although I only brew it every few months I have found the hop additions of 60, 40, 20 work really well in this style.

Batz


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## under (11/5/10)

Batz. what do you use in it beside pilsner malt?


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## RdeVjun (11/5/10)

donburke said:


> i remember reading that a protein rest can degrade head & body if the malt is well modified


Certainly some ale malts will suffer so Don, but I don't think that's the case with Bo Pils, I always protein rest just it to facilitate a single decoction and it has beautiful head retention and no lack of body. Doing the same with GP has resulted in the almost immediate head loss upon pouring.

Despite starting like milk, Bo Pils does yield some pretty clear wort and eventually, the beer is not too shabby either.


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## Batz (11/5/10)

under said:


> Batz. what do you use in it beside pilsner malt?




Just .5 Vienna and .2 wheat.

Batz


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