# Adding Oats To Stout



## rackemup (27/6/09)

Hi, i am thinking of doing a coopers stout to about 20 ltr and i want to increase the mouthfeel by adding some oats. how much should i use and how long would i mash them? any advice would be much appreciated, cheers. :icon_cheers:


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## tangent (27/6/09)

No enzymes in a can of Coopers so mashing oats is useless.
Do a mash wish 5 kilos of malted barley, throw the coopers tin away.


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## Phoney (27/6/09)

mashing is done for 60-90mins, do a search in the Kit & Extract section for oats stout - there's been heaps of threads explaining how to do it and how much to use etc.


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## staggalee (27/6/09)

Ah, the joys of h/brewing....... one simple question, 2 completely different answers.  

stagga.


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## manticle (27/6/09)

tangent said:


> No enzymes in a can of Coopers so mashing oats is useless.
> Do a mash wish 5 kilos of malted barley, throw the coopers tin away.



A guy/girl asks how to add extra to his kit and your advice is to do a 5kg AG batch? Did it strike you that the OP might not yet be set-up for all grain brewing? Should s/he not make beer until s/he is?

@OP - if you use unmalted grains, I'm fairly certain you'll need to mash them with some malted ones in order to convert the starches (vaguely what tangent was trying to get at). I'm not sure if you can just use specialty malts for this or whether you'll need base malts but chocolate and crystal malts both work well in a stout. If you could get access to some ale malt (even a kilo) and do a minimash with that and maybe 100-200 g each of crystal and chocolate, your stout will improve magnificently. This will be in the partial mash realm rather than kits so it may depend on how confident you are with your processes.

Someone else more experienced may be able to help more but my understanding is that the starches from unmalted grains (if not used in conjunction with malted) will lead to cloudy beer that may also encourage bacterial growth. I've read that up to 3 % flaked oats will assist mouthfeel and head retention. I've also heard of people using 10 % and more. I can't vouch for either but that might give you a ballpark range or at least somewhere to start.


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## staggalee (27/6/09)

Good for you Manticle, I agree with ALL of that, good someone`s got the stamina to post it at 4.30 Sat. pm.
Should help him heaps.

stagga.


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## buttersd70 (27/6/09)

manticle said:


> I'm not sure if you can just use specialty malts for this or whether you'll need base malts



It would need to be base malt, at least equal weight to the unmalted oats. at a 1:1 ratio, the base malt would provide enough enzyme to convert the oats. A fairly long mash would be required imo, 90-120 min. If more base malt was available, it would be better still.

imo, if it were to be done as a partial, I think you would need at least 1/3 of the toal fermentables to come from the mash itself to become wortwhile; 1/2 would be better still. But, 1kg ale malt + some oats, would, as manticle said, work fine. His advice re the spec malts is spot on.


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## HoppingMad (27/6/09)

If I'm reading the Opening Post right - Rackem is asking about 'flaked oats'? :blink: But could be wrong. Darn confusing. Flaked certainly adds the mouthfeel you'd be seeking and are used in loads of stouts.

But Rackem you might want to make your question a little clearer than the OP if the above posts haven't answered your question. Plenty of folk out here happy to help. 

Hopper.


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## manticle (27/6/09)

Flaked oats still need to be mashed with malt though yeah?


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## BoilerBoy (27/6/09)

manticle said:


> Flaked oats still need to be mashed with malt though yeah?



Yes,

BB


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## rackemup (27/6/09)

manticle said:


> A guy/girl asks how to add extra to his kit and your advice is to do a 5kg AG batch? Did it strike you that the OP might not yet be set-up for all grain brewing? Should s/he not make beer until s/he is?
> 
> @OP - if you use unmalted grains, I'm fairly certain you'll need to mash them with some malted ones in order to convert the starches (vaguely what tangent was trying to get at). I'm not sure if you can just use specialty malts for this or whether you'll need base malts but chocolate and crystal malts both work well in a stout. If you could get access to some ale malt (even a kilo) and do a minimash with that and maybe 100-200 g each of crystal and chocolate, your stout will improve magnificently. This will be in the partial mash realm rather than kits so it may depend on how confident you are with your processes.
> 
> Someone else more experienced may be able to help more but my understanding is that the starches from unmalted grains (if not used in conjunction with malted) will lead to cloudy beer that may also encourage bacterial growth. I've read that up to 3 % flaked oats will assist mouthfeel and head retention. I've also heard of people using 10 % and more. I can't vouch for either but that might give you a ballpark range or at least somewhere to start.



cheers, im a novice in the brewing game but that has helped alot


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## rackemup (27/6/09)

HoppingMad said:


> If I'm reading the Opening Post right - Rackem is asking about 'flaked oats'? :blink: But could be wrong. Darn confusing. Flaked certainly adds the mouthfeel you'd be seeking and are used in loads of stouts.
> 
> But Rackem you might want to make your question a little clearer than the OP if the above posts haven't answered your question. Plenty of folk out here happy to help.
> 
> Hopper.



So..are flaked oats like the oats porridge are made from or do i get these from my local brew shop? i suppose im just tryin to get that thick stout texture like guiness has. cheers :icon_cheers:


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## HoppingMad (28/6/09)

Only done a handful of stouts myself so not sure. 

Either flaked oats and flaked barley I believe will add 'mouthfeel' - creaminess, silkiness in your mouth but not flavours. Flaked Oats particularly so, Flaked barley adds protein and some body and is used more to get a creamy head on the beer. 

For flavour additions you need steeped grain for that - stouts typically use crystal malt, roasted barley, black malt, chocolate malt, and some use roast wheat and european dark grains among others in their recipes. 

Related post on flaked barley here:Flaked Barley. It concurs with what the guys have said - that you need a base grain to add this as well. 

I know that on the all-grain posts here there are plenty of people who add the supermarket oats to their stouts - check out any 'Oatmeal Stout' and you'll find a lot of them use them. Again appears that any flaked adjunct needs to be mashed in with some grain. 

Hope this helps, sorry not an uber expert on stouts (yet B) ).

Hopper.

Edit - My meagre knowledge topped up by a quick read of Palmer's 'How to brew'


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## BoilerBoy (28/6/09)

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='483394' date='Jun 27 2009, 10:29 PM']So..are flaked oats like the oats porridge are made from or do i get these from my local brew shop? i suppose im just tryin to get that thick stout texture like guiness has. cheers :icon_cheers:[/quote]

The breakfast oats like "quick oats" & "2 min Oats" you find in supermarkets have been gelatinised and can go straight into the mash, However, oats such as "rolled oats" have not had this process done so just stick to the quick oats and you'll be fine.

Cheers,
BB


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## chucke (28/6/09)

If you do add oats, be extra careful with your sanitation. Oats bring unfermentable sugars to the party- and bacteria love'em.


edit-

If you want to add mouthfeel, maltodextrin is another option.


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## muckanic (29/6/09)

I seriously doubt whether Guinness bothers with the hassle of mashing oats anymore. The smoothness could very well come from the nitrogen dispense.


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## Fourstar (29/6/09)

Ok im going for another angle here, rather than using grain that requires mashing to increase mothfeel, what about Carapils/foam?

This is also known as dextrine malt. This will increase the body in your beer as the dextrins are not munched on by your yeast. If you get an infection.. well brett will have a field day! but thats another story altogether.

Either way if you want to increase the body of your stout without having todo a partial mash, go this route. It will add close to no flavour in a stout. I'd shoot for around 5-10% of your total weight of malt and steep in 70deg water for 20-30 mins.

I'd also keep the carbonation low as this can detract from a full palate to dry and light.


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## brendanos (29/6/09)

Carapils was going to be my advice too. As a crystal malt it does not require mashing and will have a similar effect.

There are liquid enzymes available (if you're not particularly bothered by copping abuse like "chemical brewer" from snooty AG brewers - oh wait, they're already at it!) that can be used to aid breakdown/conversion of carbs such as those in oats, but adding some base malt is a nice and natural method.


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## rackemup (29/6/09)

brendanos said:


> Carapils was going to be my advice too. As a crystal malt it does not require mashing and will have a similar effect.
> 
> There are liquid enzymes available (if you're not particularly bothered by copping abuse like "chemical brewer" from snooty AG brewers - oh wait, they're already at it!) that can be used to aid breakdown/conversion of carbs such as those in oats, but adding some base malt is a nice and natural method.




I'm thinkin of getting some dark crystal malt, chocolate malt and roasted barley. hopefully this will improve it, cheers to all for the advice :beer:


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## manticle (29/6/09)

Rack said:


> Absolutely it will improve it. Roast Barley is one of the few (if not the only) unmalted grains that doesn't need to be mashed with base malts.
> 
> All those can be steeped in hot water (around 70 deg is good) for 30 - 60 mins. Make sure you boil the resulting liquid (not the grains) and make sure you crack the grains first (or buy them cracked)
> 
> ...


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## rackemup (29/6/09)

manticle said:


> Absolutely it will improve it. Roast Barley is one of the few (if not the only) unmalted grains that doesn't need to be mashed with base malts.
> 
> All those can be steeped in hot water (around 70 deg is good) for 30 - 60 mins. Make sure you boil the resulting liquid (not the grains) and make sure you crack the grains first (or buy them cracked)
> 
> ...



thanks! i didnt know that but it sure helps. Any chance of getting rough quantities of how much of each to use with the can and 20ltrs of water? :icon_cheers:


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## manticle (29/6/09)

Rack said:


> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80[/url]


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## rackemup (4/7/09)

manticle said:


> This is a rough guide only but I don't think you will go wrong with:
> 
> 200 crystal
> 300 roast barley
> ...


I picked up everything i needed from my local hbs and this is what i've done:

1 tin of coopers irish stout
300g roast barley
100g choc malt
200g dark crystal malt
500g dark dry malt extract
300g dex
11.5g US-04 yeast (dry)
I chose not to add any hops this time to see how it turns out ( i'm not a big fan of hoppy beer), it might be bitter enough for my taste as is.
steeped grains @ 65-70 for an hour, then sparged and boiled to kill any nasties,added tin of coopers along with the dex and dry malt, chilled to ~ 30c and added to primary along with water to make total of 22ltr. Aerated well and then pitched the yeast which had been rehydrated in 750 ml water/ldm mix for a couple of hours. It's been sitting overnight and this morning i checked and its happily bubbling away every couple of seconds, no sign of monster krausens i have heard about(just a normal size) this might be due to the cold weather we've been havin( around 15c). Anyway thanks for the advice and i will let you know how it turns out, cheers! :icon_chickcheers:


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## manticle (4/7/09)

Sounds pretty good. With stouts the flavour is driven by the malt and the hops are mainly for bittering rather than adding a heap of flavour. Because of the amount of malt it can be good to balance it up with a bittering addition but the kit will have a good dose in it already. You'll love the character roast barley gives. I've got a partial stout on at the moment (4kg ale malt + choc + roast barley +crystal grains + extracts + lactose + fuggles& EKG) and it's tasting great out of the fermenter. Can't wait - should be a cracker for the last month or so of winter.


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## buttersd70 (4/7/09)

I never liked stouts before I started HB....yet to brew one myself, but geez I've had some right corkers.


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## Bribie G (4/7/09)

Coopers were on special at $9 here last month so I bought a heap of stouts and made a partial with 4kg BB ale, roast barley and choc, mashed, plus Fuggles. That by itself would have turned out a nice dry stout but I also tipped in a tin of Coopers and it's turned out really Tasty FES. I'm going to do another one tomorrow and also try some oats for the first time and do it on Ringwood yeast (I note that Ringwood in the UK do a real ale stout) :icon_cheers:


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## rackemup (4/7/09)

buttersd70 said:


> I never liked stouts before I started HB....yet to brew one myself, but geez I've had some right corkers.




I was inspired by the brass monkey stout @ the sail and anchor pub in freemantle,Perth. I'ts the best stout i've ever tried, with great coffee/chocolate aromas and excellent mouthfeel/flavour :icon_drool2:


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## Bribie G (5/7/09)

I'm doing an oatmeal stout today and chucking in 500 of flaked oats to 2 Kg BB Ale plus roast Barley and, later, a tin of Coopers Stout. I get the impression that rolled oats are steamed first then rolled thus gelatinised, but to be on the safe side I'll turn the oats into porridge first (like I do when I'm mashing polenta or rice).

I'll let you know how I get on with the mash. Does anyone know whether oats kill the head on a stout or not? If so I might go some barley as well.


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## rackemup (5/7/09)

BribieG said:


> I'm doing an oatmeal stout today and chucking in 500 of flaked oats to 2 Kg BB Ale plus roast Barley and, later, a tin of Coopers Stout. I get the impression that rolled oats are steamed first then rolled thus gelatinised, but to be on the safe side I'll turn the oats into porridge first (like I do when I'm mashing polenta or rice).
> 
> I'll let you know how I get on with the mash. Does anyone know whether oats kill the head on a stout or not? If so I might go some barley as well.




Here is a quote i found on a website -'Oats are rarely used nowadays. The exception is in Oatmeal Stouts, where its inclusion is mainly for nutritional reasons rather that flavour. Oats contain a high percentage of oils which adversely affect the head retention properties of beer.' so it seems the oil in oats could be problem? 
What type of sugar do you use to prime your stouts with? i am thinking of using a brown sugar or just dextrose, i have heard of people using black jelly beans and i think this is a great idea so i will definitely prime a couple bottles with them to see how they go. 
Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Bizier (5/7/09)

I will chime in that I think oats are great in beer.
Barret Burston Galaxy Malt is malted to have excess diastatic enzymes, so is a good choice for converting your adjuncts.

And to throw my 2c in, I really prefer to use the lightest extract I can, even for a stout. It means that I can control the roasted flavours, and ensures that they are fresher. So if I am making a K&B dark beer, I will start with a lager or cerveza tin. That goes for dry malt extract as well.

I just use plain table sugar from Aldi to prime, but because dex is cheap (and supposedly clean), I might start using that.


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## Bribie G (5/7/09)

Thanks for the comments. Now: *OATS DISASTER
*
Grain bill prepared, I went to the pantry and put my hand on the packet of ...............


oat bran :lol: could have sworn it was quick cook oats when I bought it.


So back to plan B and instead I put in 500g of boiled up Polenta. I'm just looking for more complex yummy grain flavours so let's see how it goes.


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## Bizier (5/7/09)

I would have been keen to hear your results using bran


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## muckanic (6/7/09)

BribieG said:


> Grain bill prepared, I went to the pantry and put my hand on the packet of ...............
> 
> 
> oat bran :lol: could have sworn it was quick cook oats when I bought it.



It actually makes a fairly decent porridge, so I assume the starch content is reasonably high.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, whole oats have more flavour and the oil is nothing to worry about.


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## insane_rosenberg (15/4/12)

BribieG said:


> Grain bill prepared, I went to the pantry and put my hand on the packet of ...............
> 
> 
> oat bran :lol: could have sworn it was quick cook oats when I bought it.



Had almost the same thing happen to me. Except when I read the bran pack at the shop I had my wires crossed. I thought it was the germ (which would be good for brewing?).

Oh well. I think I'm going to run with it today. The worst thing that could happen is that I'll make beer.


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## insane_rosenberg (15/4/12)

Shane R said:


> Had almost the same thing happen to me. Except when I read the bran pack at the shop I had my wires crossed. I thought it was the germ (which would be good for brewing?).
> 
> Oh well. I think I'm going to run with it today. The worst thing that could happen is that I'll make beer.



Tough brew day. Did make beer though.


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## insane_rosenberg (25/5/12)

I was looking forward to posting back on this thread. It's so rare in my brewing discussion that I can say something with absolute unarguable conviction. I was looking forward to coming back here and saying:

*Making a Robust Porter with 15% Oatbran is the shittest idea ever!*

And you know what, it really was a shit BIAB day, followed by lots of shit cleaning tasks, including cleaning gluey build up from inside every transfer hose I used between every vessel from the urn to the keg.

But in the end, the beer turned out really nice, and as I'm sitting in the office in Melbourne on this gloomy day, I can't wait to get home and pour myself a pint of that chewy robust goodness.

So next time you dig in the cuboard and come out with oat bran instead of quick oats, give it a try. As long as you don't mind gluey brew days. You might get nice beer.

Hows that for conviction? :icon_cheers:

Edit: spelling


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