# Fanboys - These Members



## Thefatdoghead (21/12/11)

I'm not sure if his has been said before and I have not searched it. I have only been on this sight for a few months but I have noticed a few people with a profusion of knowledge that I would like to name, I'd like to make a thread for noobs and experts alike to be able to google and sort through the crap to find real answers that work off those people that have posted great threads on on all topics from buying grain to pitching yeast. 
There is so much info on this site but how much is real and how much is hear say? 

Maybe the makers and the people running this site can collimate a "thread of knowledge" where only subjects of brewing from grain to glass is discussed with all the great knowledgable threads piled into one under one word.

It's doable and would save a lot of people a lot of time. Might even become a book.....just kidding I seen that thread! h34r:


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## bignath (21/12/11)

I reckon thats a pretty good idea actually. Not sure how it would be implemented, and who decides what is a worthy post in a thread, but in a perfect world this idea would be a good one.


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## Thefatdoghead (21/12/11)

Big Nath said:


> I reckon thats a pretty good idea actually. Not sure how it would be implemented, and who decides what is a worthy post in a thread, but in a perfect world this idea would be a good one.


I actually wanted to name a few people on here but thought it would be inappropriate for one reason or another but if a lot of people go for the idea then why not get all the info together on here and listen ONLY to the people who know what the **** they are on about? Everyone is alway on about, did you search??!! Even when you do search you get put down by some fools who probably cant even brew good beer anyway. I just think it would make life easier for all and if the guys or girls running this website want to make it better that would be great.


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## ianh (21/12/11)

Unfortunately no longer on the forum, but buttersd70 was the man for me.


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## Mayor of Mildura (21/12/11)

Hi Gav

There are a few problems with this idea. e.g.
There are plenty of people who like to quote seemingly valid information as gospel but down the track you realise that they have never experimented and there are 10 other ways to do the same thing that are just as good. 
Not everybody is an expert at everything. Even the search touting gooses come up with a gem of an idea sometimes. 
There are plenty of lurkers here with loads on knowledge. High post count doesn't equal good advice. 
etc....


I reckon that you need to take advice from here with a grain of salt no matter who it is from. 

Cheers


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## kelbygreen (21/12/11)

maybe if there is a way for people to like a post and it shows up below the question as a recommended answer?? prob very hard to implement and it would mean a whole forum over haul even if it was possible.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/12/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> Hi Gav
> 
> There are a few problems with this idea. e.g.
> There are plenty of people who like to quote seemingly valid information as gospel but down the track you realise that they have never experimented and there are 10 other ways to do the same thing that are just as good.
> ...



+1

Always take advice with a grain of salt, and high post cost means nothing. There is one member who's PM'ed me, and I've helped him out, but his post count is almost as high as mine in less membership time.

And also, there is some advice given over PM, which never makes it to the forum, but probably really valid.

Goomba


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## petesbrew (21/12/11)

Dare I say, I think you might need to invest in a couple of books instead. I know that answer is the equivalent to "do a search", but at least you don't have pages of bitchfighting and bickering in the middle. 
Plus, as already stated, take it with a grain of salt. Does the poster know what he's talking about? Or is he like me, cutting corners everywhere with a "she'll be right" attitude, then wondering what f##ked up. For this reason I stay out of 99% technical talk cos I don't know Jack. There's a lot smarter brewers out there... problem is half of them enjoy a good ol fashion nerdfight as well.


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## cam89brewer (21/12/11)

petesbrew said:


> Dare I say, I think you might need to invest in a couple of books instead. I know that answer is the equivalent to "do a search", but at least you don't have pages of bitchfighting and bickering in the middle.
> Plus, as already stated, take it with a grain of salt. Does the poster know what he's talking about? Or is he like me, cutting corners everywhere with a "she'll be right" attitude, then wondering what f##ked up. For this reason I stay out of 99% technical talk cos I don't know Jack. There's a lot smarter brewers out there... problem is half of them enjoy a good ol fashion nerdfight as well.



It is true that when ever you post something on here there is a possible 20,000+ members on here in which most of them are genuine and know what they are taking about but there are always people in the world that are going to cut you down and act as though their opinion is more worthy than yours. 

My way of using this site is just filter through comments and only really take notice of the ones that work for you and always research something even if the person who told the information has made 57,000 posts and 28 barrels and has been on here for 19 years.... wow I think I am crapping on.... :lol:


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## QldKev (21/12/11)

ianh said:


> Unfortunately no longer on the forum, but buttersd70 was the man for me.




Hope you didn't mean to word it that way


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## dcx3 (21/12/11)

i just click on the members names and go through all their old post's.
Just spent the other day reading all of Jayse's post, and have done the same with butters and a few other's.


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## Lecterfan (21/12/11)

Barrells can - not always - be indicative of wanting to engage with others in the forum as a whole (and with this many passionate musos, engineers, tradies, gamers etc etc littered throughout the site it's no wonder the off topic section can be a heap of fun). Obviously it's a big mistake to think it means anyone knows anything - this is the internet after all. BUT - really, it doesn't take long to find people who share similar palates to yourself and perhaps work on similar systems and then it makes the whole thing a lot easier. I only joined the site a few weeks before doing my first AG, and in that time I've gone from completely ignorant to semi-ignorant (which is only one small wrung above haha).

I certainly take everything with a pinch of salt, but my motto is 'give it a go'. Some people seem scared to just throw some grain and water together and then try some hops. Just have a go!!!! I have gained some good theoretical advice from this site, but nothing like just making beer has taught me. Then when you plateau, come back for some more theory (like new hops, water additions, different mash temps, whatever) and then go and apply it again. I would have gone mad if I was still trying to create 'the perfect' single infusion SMaSH beer, but I learn what I learn, try it again and move on.

Even better than this site - get to a swap or two, find others around that brew the way you do (AG/whatever) and if there is nothing happenning then make it happen. If you brew it, they will come... :beer:


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## MarkBastard (21/12/11)

Unfortunately there's no way to really do this. Some of the most useful people here are often ridiculed by so called experts because they think outside the square a bit or taylor their advice to their audience and simplify things etc. There are great brewers here that have never no chilled or BIAB'd and will talk smack about it but give useful advice in other threads. If you want to read the opinions of an authority your only real option is to read a book. Otherwise you'll have to deal with varying opinions. That's what forums are for after all.

A concerted effort to keep an FAQ/Wiki up to date would be a good idea though.


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## brettprevans (21/12/11)

there are a few guides prepared by knowledgable members including a wiki I started with the exact thought. biggest problem is that people get sucked dry and tired of putting in the effort to put up info and its ignored and same questions asked.

however in saying that, if you or anyoine else wants to have another crack at getting it working, go for it


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## loikar (21/12/11)

Brewing should be a journey. just like any other hobby.
You're supposed to stumble and fall, get up, work out what happened and learn from it.
It's supposed to be fun and relaxing. if you're stressing about getting everything right all the time, or losing sleep because of what someone said to you on an internet forum, maybe brewing isn't for you.

if you're only goal is to make consistent great beers and never **** up, then maybe brewing isn't for you.
People learn from trial end error, and making mistakes.... that's life folks.

Forums, books, other brewers are all sources of reference, not to be taken as gospel. So make up your own damd mind and travel your own path.
there are no "better brewers" there are only those that are further down a road than you, some go faster than others, some fall over more than others, some turn off and choose a different path altogether. Take what you need and discard the rest.

As far as advice goes on "How to" or "best method", The internet is not a single reliable source for anything, And if you do depend on a corner of the internet as a single source of information, you had better have thick internet skin.
but like anything that relies on community involvement, there is always wheat in the chaff and it will take the person looking for information to put some effort in to find it. Very rarely do people get what they're after with only putting in minimal effort.

That sounds all a little too philosophical for me...

P.S. Your extract beers are shit. h34r: 

BF


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## WarmBeer (21/12/11)

BeerFingers said:


> Brewing should be a journey. just like any other hobby.
> You're supposed to stumble and fall, get up, work out what happened and learn from it.
> It's supposed to be fun and relaxing. if you're stressing about getting everything right all the time, or losing sleep because of what someone said to you on an internet forum, maybe brewing isn't for you.
> 
> ...


Quick, notify the Mods, some other person has hacked into BeerFingers account, and is posting rational, well thought out answers :lol:


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## MarkBastard (21/12/11)

^Haha

But seriously, Beer Fingers post summed it up perfectly.


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## loikar (21/12/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Quick, notify the Mods, some other person has hacked into BeerFingers account, and is posting rational, well thought out answers :lol:



Hey!! that's not fair!
All my post's are well thought out!
They may not be rational, consistent or nice at times...
But all of them are well thought out.... h34r: 

BF


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## MaltyHops (21/12/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Unfortunately there's no way to really do this. ...


Consider also the different paths to brewing - BIAB, 2V, 3V, HERMS, RIMS, Kit -
and different levels of equipment used make such an undertaking difficult. I imagine
a lot of people would have been keeping a collection of links to useful posts and
copies of pages, docs, etc relating to brewing so really up to each individual to
roll their own.



BeerFingers said:


> if you're only goal is to make consistent great beers and never **** up, then maybe
> brewing isn't for you .People learn from trial end error, and making mistakes.... that's
> life folks.


This would be a legit approach for some people - eg. those who have braumeisters
or time poor. Personally I like to have something more involved to play with so am
looking forward to a more hands on approach and learn from trial end error. Maybe
it would be different if I have had made over a hundred brews already - kind of like the
manual vs automatic car debate.

T.


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## petesbrew (21/12/11)

BeerFingers said:


> if you're only goal is to make consistent great beers and never **** up, then maybe brewing isn't for you.
> People learn from trial end error, and making mistakes.... that's life folks.


After feeling the gut-wrenching agony of tipping a couple of AG batches down the drain, I would love to consistently make great beers and never **** up.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

If there was only one way to make beer there would only be one set of answers.

Making megaswill is a science (biology/economics); making beer at home is an artform.


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## brettprevans (21/12/11)

proof of why this wont work is in this very thread. several people have suggested things that would need to be included etc and yet they havent bothered to read the posts before them or the info/links provided. so sadly it is doomed to fail.


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## Murcluf (21/12/11)

ianh said:


> Unfortunately no longer on the forum, but buttersd70 was the man for me.



You can only hope that one day a "the_new_buttersd70" may appear to share his infinite wisdom on all things beery.


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## blakie21 (21/12/11)

Why don't we have a 'rep' up or down button, or even just up to avoid trolls.

Or even a special badge or something for those who have received alot of up votes for helpful posts? That way you could see who has given good advice. Personally I think its great when someone takes time to write a detailed helpful post and there should be something to show others. I know I wouldn't be brewing anything half decent if not for the many nooby questions patient people have answered for me!

Could even have a points system going where people with heaps of points can get merch or something? Probably a bit too much but its an idea?


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## Truman42 (21/12/11)

BeerFingers said:


> ..... or losing sleep because of what someone said to you on an internet forum, maybe brewing isn't for you.



If I worried about that I would have given up brewing before I started. 

Instead Ive listened to those who have taken the time to offer good advice in replies or Pm's and have so far done 4 succesful BIAB brews that I can honestly say have enjoyed drinking all of them so far.

Maybe what we need is an absolute beginners only section that noobs can ask what they want to. If your a helpful bloke and like answering the same questions then go for it, spread your knowledge.

If your an expert brewer with lots of knowledge but hate having to repeat yourself or think noobs are lazy because they don't want to wade through 15 pages of what might be outdated information then simple..Dont read posts in that forum.

You wouldn't walk into a gay bar knowing thats what it was, unless you liked that sort of thing.


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## going down a hill (21/12/11)

Truman said:


> If I worried about that I would have given up brewing before I started.
> 
> Instead Ive listened to those who have taken the time to offer good advice in replies or Pm's and have so far done 4 succesful BIAB brews that I can honestly say have enjoyed drinking all of them so far.
> 
> ...



But this site is set up like this, sometimes people don't like to read, they post their problem/question where ever they like. 

All forums have sub headings which tells you what it's about
EG
Kits & Extracts
Post in this section if you are a new brewer or brew with kits & extracts. 

All Grain (AG) & Partials 
This forum is for more technical and experienced brewing discussions. Please keep posts on topic.


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## Truman42 (21/12/11)

going down a hill said:


> But this site is set up like this, sometimes people don't like to read, they post their problem/question where ever they like.
> 
> All forums have sub headings which tells you what it's about
> EG
> ...



Ok but I (and others) have asked questions in the Beginner/partials AG forum and been told we're lazy and that we should be searching. Same thing in "The common Ground" forum. 

I thought the kits and extracts forum was just for noobs to kits and extracts. 
If there was an absolute beginners forum where noobs could ask any question relating to brewing, wether its AG, BIAB, K&K, fermenting, gear and equipment etc and the mods could move posts in the wrong forum to this forum as they happen, Im sure this would please a lot of the angrier brewers who let these small things in life get to them. h34r: 
For every "pissed off with a noob question" brewer theres another 5 only to willing to help by replying and in a PM. 

Lets not give them anything to get angry over.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

Forums would work perfectly if when someone asked an inappropriate question, or a question in the incorrect place, that no one replied.

The thing that differentiates expertise from wisdom is knowing when to help and when not.

Often expertise comes with a big dollup of dickhead attached.

I've tried to help out a lot on this site, but I've also had my fair share of experts' "advice". I can think of one memorable one - it was an epic fail on the expert's part to the point of being somewhat entertaining.

What a lot of people fail to notice, is a large chunk of information on forums like this one actually come from those who don't know what they're doing. Asking the right question is often smarter than knowing the right answer.


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## mckenry (21/12/11)

Seems like a good idea, but indeed really hard to work it.
So lets just start a list of awesomeness

1. mckenry 


hahahahahahahaha


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## bum (21/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Asking the right question is often smarter than knowing the right answer.


Is this similar to 'sometimes the best way to impart information is not to include any'?


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

bum said:


> Is this similar to 'sometimes the best way to impart information is not to include any'?



..._[message not included]_


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## bum (21/12/11)

Thanks. I'm off to brew my Koan Ale right now.


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## WarmBeer (21/12/11)

bum said:


> Is this similar to 'sometimes the best way to impart information is not to include any'?


I think Keanu summed it up best:

Bill: "The only true wisdom consists in knowing that you know nothing"
Ted: That's us, dude. Whoa...


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## bignath (21/12/11)

Blakie said:


> Or even a special badge or something for those who have received alot of up votes for helpful posts? That way you could see who has given good advice. Personally I think its great when someone takes time to write a detailed helpful post and there should be something to show others.



I agree with this. 

Off topic:
Also, id like to see a little indicator to see what threads iveposted in to makeit easier to keep track. Have been a member of some vintage music gear forums and they have this feature. A little icon next to the thread title to indicate youve posted.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

Big Nath said:


> Also, id like to see a little indicator to see what threads iveposted in to makeit easier to keep track. Have been a member of some vintage music gear forums and they have this feature. A little icon next to the thread title to indicate youve posted.



Look harder.


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## staggalee (21/12/11)

mckenry said:


> Seems like a good idea, but indeed really hard to work it.
> So lets just start a list of awesomeness
> 
> 1. mckenry
> ...



2. Yasmani

hahahahahahahahaha again.


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## jayse (21/12/11)

The only way to tell who knows their shit is to know the shit properly yourself, unfortunately new brewers ussually just believe whoever shouts the loudest (posts the most).


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## blakie21 (21/12/11)

I think a reputation system might also mean that people who would have previously ignored a 'dumb' question to answer it anyway. Giving them reputation and the noob gets their answer sorted. Although posting in wrong sections etc repeatedly is just stupid.

I realise people ask dumb questions but I have had a couple which I have searched and searched and not found, then once I post someone comes and links me a post which I could never find amongst random topics on page 40 of 150 etc. Personally nobody has had a go at me and I find the forum really good. 

Slightly OT -
Shout outs to Nick JD and Big Nath, since seeing you post here has reminded me you guys have helped me a fair few times with detail and shared invaluable experience with me. There are many others for sure though!


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## Gar (21/12/11)

I like the idea of a "thumbs up" "thumbs down" system on posts.... A feature building on that could be a search for the top rated posts on a particular term.

The testicality of writing it would probably be ridiculous though :mellow:


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## WarmBeer (21/12/11)

Gar said:


> The testicality of writing it would probably be ridiculous though :mellow:


Why would you write it? This is exactly the purpose of StackExchange, you get a lot of this functionality inbuilt.

Unlike AHB, StackExchange sites tend to be pretty dry, humourless places. AHB, despite the shitfights, is sometimes drunkentertaining.


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## Spork (21/12/11)

A n00b section can work really well, for the reasons stated previously.
Sick of "my airlock isn't bubbling, will my beer explode" threads - don't read the n00b section.
Want to ask a question (because the search showed 10 000 threads that were 70% BS, 20% pissing contests and 9.9% porkspin) and don't want grief - post in n00b section.
Anyone else here on OCAU? It's a computer forum that caters for everyone from 12 yo's wanting to learn some basic shit to IT professionals and everything in between. The n00b section there works well. No flaming, no question too stupid, except the question you don't ask etc.


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## bum (21/12/11)

That is what this board has always been like. If it is different now it is not the board software that is at fault.


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## AndrewQLD (21/12/11)

Spork said:


> A n00b section can work really well, for the reasons stated previously.
> Sick of "my airlock isn't bubbling, will my beer explode" threads - don't read the n00b section.
> Want to ask a question (because the search showed 10 000 threads that were 70% BS, 20% pissing contests and 9.9% porkspin) and don't want grief - post in n00b section.
> Anyone else here on OCAU? It's a computer forum that caters for everyone from 12 yo's wanting to learn some basic shit to IT professionals and everything in between. The n00b section there works well. No flaming, no question too stupid, except the question you don't ask etc.



Technically we do have a new brewer section and this is where those questions should be asked. 








 

 *Kits & Extracts* 

 
Post in this section if you are a new brewer or brew with kits & extracts. 
*
*

I don't really think the problem is the Noobie questions, most experienced brewers can and will answer them, the problem has more to do with members who only seem to want to increase their post count by trolling threads when they have no real interest in offering any constructive help or feed back. 
I can't for the life of me understand this attitude, why post something unhelpful, unless of course it's just for the cheap thrill of derailing a thread?


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## the_new_darren (21/12/11)

For example, would FANBOYS of a retailer give thumbs up (in exchange for items) although that retailer was promoting their monopolised product.

tnd


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## Fish13 (21/12/11)

jayse said:


> The only way to tell who knows their shit is to know the shit properly yourself, unfortunately new brewers ussually just believe whoever shouts the loudest (posts the most).



not entirely true.

since i am new here and full of shit and ready for giggles... 

i tend to look for guys who have done write up's EG Nick JD and Bribie g. then follow there threads and see where they go. I look at Dr S's threads for recipes and go faaaaaaaaaaark. still way to comlicated for me but i am sure he has a bag of knowledge and prob a big pisshead too 

From the local guy's i have found JYO and Kiefer33 to be most helpful and spoonta too. I may need to bribe him to come down and help me with my tub. The rest of them sorry guys i just don't know you to well but cdbrown is a top bloke!


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## Fish13 (21/12/11)

Spork said:


> A n00b section can work really well, for the reasons stated previously.
> Sick of "my airlock isn't bubbling, will my beer explode" threads - don't read the n00b section.
> Want to ask a question (because the search showed 10 000 threads that were 70% BS, 20% pissing contests and 9.9% porkspin) and don't want grief - post in n00b section.
> Anyone else here on OCAU? It's a computer forum that caters for everyone from 12 yo's wanting to learn some basic shit to IT professionals and everything in between. The n00b section there works well. No flaming, no question too stupid, except the question you don't ask etc.



Sounds like the whirlpool forum which covers everything too


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## blakie21 (21/12/11)

fish13 said:


> From the local guy's i have found JYO and Kiefer33 to be most helpful and spoonta too. I may need to bribe him to come down and help me with my tub. The rest of them sorry guys i just don't know you to well but cdbrown is a top bloke!




Agreed. Had alot of help from Kiefer and spoonta also. There is a lot of people on here who are willing to answer any question with a pretty long detailed response. Pretty good bunch mostly, you always get a few 'elitist' people but oh well.


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## Truman42 (21/12/11)

Manticle for Mayor of AHB I say. Always helpful and a top bloke from what I've heard from a few guys who met him at the Vic case swap.


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## bradsbrew (21/12/11)

Spending time on the site is the best method of sorting the best info. Learning is all about research, trial and error. You will get the answers from those who know how but dont know why, then you will get the info from those who know why, which will usually come from a question within the how thread. You cant expect it all now without a bit of work/time. After a few years on this forum I can now scroll through threads, both new and old, and stop at certain names. This works for times that I want reliable info on specific topics ie. I may have confidence in one poster for their info on bitters but not lager or one may have great knowledge in water but not single vessel breweries etc.

A 'book' may be good but can't beat a great network of experienced people. It is up to the user as to how much time/research they want to put in to build their confidence in posters. For the record the_same_old darren may post some shit but he can also give some good info when he chooses just the same as some guys can have a bit of fun but can be taken seriously as well.

Cheers


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

the_new_darren said:


> For example, would FANBOYS of a retailer give thumbs up (in exchange for items) although that retailer was promoting their monopolised product.
> 
> tnd



I get *the_new_darren* T-Shirts at cost. Like that, you mean?


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## Hargie (21/12/11)

...the only real way to find out if someone on here or any other font of knowledge knows shit from clay, is to taste their beer...


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## Rowy (21/12/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Spending time on the site is the best method of sorting the best info. Learning is all about research, trial and error. You will get the answers from those who know how but dont know why, then you will get the info from those who know why, which will usually come from a question within the how thread. You cant expect it all now without a bit of work/time. After a few years on this forum I can now scroll through threads, both new and old, and stop at certain names. This works for times that I want reliable info on specific topics ie. I may have confidence in one poster for their info on bitters but not lager or one may have great knowledge in water but not single vessel breweries etc.
> 
> A 'book' may be good but can't beat a great network of experienced people. It is up to the user as to how much time/research they want to put in to build their confidence in posters. For the record the_same_old darren may post some shit but he can also give some good info when he chooses just the same as some guys can have a bit of fun but can be taken seriously as well.
> 
> Cheers




as a noob +1!


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## troopa (21/12/11)

Maybe i should ask this in the n00bs section. but how do u get over 700 posts in less the 8 months?...... oh wait i figured it out


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## Rowy (21/12/11)

Troopa said:


> Maybe i should ask this in the n00bs section. but how do u get over 700 posts in less the 8 months?...... oh wait i figured it out




So Troopa posts equal experience. Doesn't have anything to do with being new and asking questions maybe enjoying the on lin e company of blokes with a similar interest. Mate I realise your having a go at someone else but get your head out of your arse. We all should beable to ask questions and seek advice and share experiences. By the way the bloke who put me onto this site has been AG brewing for 25yrs, previous brewer at Carlton Toowoomba, he is a chemist and has 4 posts but has a look most nights.


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## Spork (21/12/11)

Troopa said:


> Maybe i should ask this in the n00bs section. but how do u get over 700 posts in less the 8 months?...... oh wait i figured it out



Gone from knowing absolutley fuckall to knowing enough to produce decent AG beer, and have them on tap, in 8 months too. Along the way contributed to the "whats in the glass - commercial" thread, started a couple of threads for everyone's enjoyment, asked a bunch of questions, had some fun.. I think they call it "active forum member" or some such thing.


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## bum (21/12/11)

Spork said:


> I think they call it "active forum member" or some such thing.


Frowned upon unless you were at Grumpy's. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## yardy (21/12/11)

oh peachy, a noob rumble


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## bradsbrew (21/12/11)

yardy said:


> oh peachy, a noob rumble



Whats a noob.


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## IainMcLean (21/12/11)

kelbygreen said:


> maybe if there is a way for people to like a post and it shows up below the question as a recommended answer?? prob very hard to implement and it would mean a whole forum over haul even if it was possible.



There's quite possibly a simple way to implement some code on the forum tablet that uses either the Google +1 or something similar to gather an aggregated consensus on posts. With a little bit of tinkering that could be linked to OP user names and an additional line created on the profiles with user scores - kind of like the ratings found on ebay.

The downside is that while this has obvious advantages it will of course also stymie the forum's autodidactic nature and create an enforced pedagogical environment, moving away from the 'open source' type arena of unfettered free sharing.


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## yardy (21/12/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Whats a noob.



Do a search ffs.


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## bum (21/12/11)

Yippie Ki Yay said:


> There's quite possibly a simple way to implement some code on the forum tablet that uses either the Google +1 or something similar to gather an aggregated consensus on posts. With a little bit of tinkering that could be linked to OP user names and an additional line created on the profiles with user scores - kind of like the ratings found on ebay.
> 
> The downside is that while this has obvious advantages it will of course also stymie the forum's autodidactic nature and create an enforced pedagogical environment, moving away from the 'open source' type arena of unfettered free sharing.


There's already a member rating system in place, guys.

(Every time I point this out I drop a star.)


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## bradsbrew (21/12/11)

yardy said:


> Do a search ffs.


OK will do. What does FFS mean?


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## Muggus (21/12/11)

Realistically, the best providers of advice on this site are those who are actually commercial brewers with years of experience and worked their way up from homebrew, of which there are many on this site.

Naturally, they rarely have the time to post here, and more often than not incognito, of course. And even then, will often get shot down by less experienced brewers whose voice/typing is more prominant than their brewing experience and knowledge, which is a shame.

There is some great info to be gathered from the brewers here, but there's always more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak...and often a topic will get more involved in the method in which to skin a cat, than answer someones query...once again a shame. 

But hey, published books are no different, and indeed no two brewers are the same. As much as it is cold hard science behind all the processes in brewing, conducting those processes can manifest itself in seemingly an infinite number of ways. So at the end of the day, it comes down to the fundamental scientific principals being adhered to staunchly, but a means of doing so is entirely up to individuals choice...obviously constrained by budget/time/effort/etc.

/rant


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## IainMcLean (21/12/11)

bum said:


> There's already a member rating system in place, guys.
> 
> (Every time I point this out I drop a star.)



But the current 5* system isn't intuitive. You have to access it by leaving the thread you're reading and goign to a member's profile. Why not have it linked directly via a button on the footer of each comment eg. "like" that is a simple click, has a visible tally, and doesn't interrupt the user's reading...


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## bum (21/12/11)

Yippie Ki Yay said:


> But the current 5* system isn't intuitive. You have to access it by leaving the thread you're reading and goign to a member's profile. Why not have it linked directly via a button on the footer of each comment eg. "like" that is a simple click, has a visible tally, and doesn't interrupt the user's reading...


Why not? Because, at the end of the day, this is all just a popularity contest and still doesn't necessarily reflect a brewer's usefulness - although in pretty much all cases those with very high rating deserve them, but if you need the stars to tell you that you're probably not ready for what they have to say anyway.


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## Muggus (21/12/11)

bum said:


> Why not? Because, at the end of the day, this is all just a popularity contest and still doesn't necessarily reflect a brewer's usefulness - although in pretty much all cases those with very high rating deserve them, but if you need the stars to tell you that you're probably not ready for what they have to say anyway.


There in which lies the problem, Mr Bum.
Because it is more than likely those who post the most who are more than likely to give advice. And therefore are more than likely to get any sort of "Like"ing or "Rating"ing, and therefore more likely to rate highly. 
And hey, it's good that they're there to give advice all the time, but it might not be the _right_ advice. 
And it's not just forum...so often you get people getting told by their LHBS to do this and that and use these ingredients to make a certain beer, and it will often be so wrong its not funny.

So at the end of the day, I feel a bit sorry for people starting out, because if they ask a question, chances are they'll get million different answers, and they have to decide which one to trust...and **** me, that's a hard decision...and no rating/like system in the world is really gonna help all that much.


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## bum (21/12/11)

I agree with what you've said there, Sir Muggus. In fact, I hope that is has not escaped anyone's attention that my post was saying exactly the same as some of what you've said. But I do disagree with the following to a certain extent:



Muggus said:


> So at the end of the day, I feel a bit sorry for people starting out, because if they ask a question, chances are they'll get million different answers,


For me (and I realise that my experience and wishes may not reflect those of everyone/anyone else), this was exactly what attracted me to the board when I first started posting here. I've always enjoyed the many different perspectives and I honestly feel it has improved my brewing. I accept, of course, that many people may just want the right answer immediately and don't want to pfaff about with all the different perspectives.

In fact, I lament the clear narrowing of perspectives that has occurred here of late. I'm not sure a noob asking a question does get a million different answers any more.


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## jyo (21/12/11)

fish13 said:


> From the local guy's i have found JYO and Kiefer33 to be most helpful and spoonta too. I may need to bribe him to come down and help me with my tub. The rest of them sorry guys i just don't know you to well but cdbrown is a top bloke!




Cheers, Fish. Happy to help with what I can, mate.

Regarding the post count argument. I have a relatively high post count for the number of years that I have been on the site. I suppose this is mainly due to each individual's readiness with engaging with the general public. I like the banter, the awesome personalities on here and talking about recipes and ingredients and what others are doing with their brewing. I am also an Aquarian and I like long walks on the beach. Porkspin is also a bonus.

I regard myself as a non-technical brewer. I am happy with my technique, I produce reasonably replicable results. When people start talking alpha/beta/ salivary amylase, I don't yet fully understand. I personally know brewers whose technical understandings would be that close to a commercial brewer, yet they rarely post. This is where the post count system is flawed.

Another thing to note is that some of the requests here have already been suggested in another thread a year or so ago....no change.

Look, I started mashing a belgian wit and drinking at 1pm so my initial meaning has been lost


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

bum said:


> In fact, I lament the clear narrowing of perspectives that has occurred here of late.



I lament the romantic prose that flows hither from our bum.


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## bum (21/12/11)

Bum is entirely a free-flowing romance zone.

Quite fluid, in fact.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

I'm getting all moist.


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## Muggus (21/12/11)

bum said:


> For me (and I realise that my experience and wishes may not reflect those of everyone/anyone else), this was exactly what attracted me to the board when I first started posting here. I've always enjoyed the many different perspectives and I honestly feel it has improved my brewing. I accept, of course, that many people may just want the right answer immediately and don't want to pfaff about with all the different perspectives.
> 
> In fact, I lament the clear narrowing of perspectives that has occurred here of late. I'm not sure a noob asking a question does get a million different answers any more.


It's certainly great to hear a range of oppinions/theories/techniques/styles in regards to doing something brew related, and really, i'd love to have the time to explore them all...I really would. 
And really, who wants to be preached some sort of dogmatic view/style, where you must do everything thusly otherwise you're doing it wrong.

What worries me that if say you're starting out and you pick up your tin of Tooheys New kit and brew it according to instructions, it doesn't turn out anything like Tooheys...and often they're come here for answers, and get hit by, sure, a bit of slander, but also a number of options and the poor bloke just wants to make one of the most common beers in the country. And the REAL unfortunate thing is that he'll never come remotely being able replicate that beer on a small scale with a kit ever...and would be doing well to do so with AG. 
I mean sure, alot of commercially brewed lagers are not great examples for beers to expect from homebrewers, but they just happen to make up some figure around 90% (don't quote me exactly there) of the market of all beer consumed, and people would love to be able to brew what they drink...it's just never easy to tell them it's probably gonna cost them more for the equipment they need to do so than a years supply of the stuff would be.

Probably got off-track there, but my point is I think if I were starting off here looking for advice, it'd be nice for it to be either clearly scientific, or if opinion/annecdotely based, it'd be nice to know. At the end of the day, it's great that people are exposed to a number of options, and it's up to an individual to decide which path to take...and most of which are right...and it'd be nice to be able to try them all, but it's not an easy thing when you're just starting out.


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## mh971 (21/12/11)

bum said:


> There's already a member rating system in place, guys.
> 
> (Every time I point this out I drop a star.)




I really don't believe a member rating is worth shit in regards to determining if accurate information is being given or not. I reckon it ends up more a reflection of ones tone and attempts to be helpful. 

Evidence of this: I am on another forum, I know SFA and yet I have a member rating slightly higher than some members who in my opinion and experience consistently provide high quality detailed information. I think I have made possibly one useful post in almost 400, and my inaccuracies in others should have cancelled this out ten fold. 

Best thing I did was start reading the BJCP Style Guidlines and purchased 3 books. How to Brew, Principles of Brewing Science, and Designing Great Beers.


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## Muggus (22/12/11)

Mick71 said:


> Best thing I did was start reading the BJCP Style Guidlines and purchased 3 books. How to Brew, Principles of Brewing Science, and Designing Great Beers.


LIKE

...oh wait, shit...


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## Guest Lurker (22/12/11)

dcx3 said:


> i just click on the members names and go through all their old post's.
> Just spent the other day reading all of Jayse's post, and have done the same with butters and a few other's.



Well spotted, if you want to learn about passion for all grain brewing, a natural feeling for what will work and what wont, plus learn a bit about Led Zeppelin, then dig up all the old posts from Jayse from the early days of this forum. He taught me everything I needed to know, and I never even met him.


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## pbrosnan (22/12/11)

Guest Lurker said:


> Well spotted, if you want to learn about passion for all grain brewing, a natural feeling for what will work and what wont, plus learn a bit about Led Zeppelin, then dig up all the old posts from Jayse from the early days of this forum. He taught me everything I needed to know, and I never even met him.


And buy some bloody books and get on with it, it's not that hard FFS. A lot of the BS on here is generated by people who want to make a simple process difficult. And that comment about commercial brewers is rubbish. Real commercial brewers aren't interested in the types of techniques and styles that homebrewers are. What they want is to produce exactly the same product from seasonally and geographically varying ingredients, many use various additives to do this. Strange thing is that craftbrewers don't always do this and so there may be some variation ... which inevitably leads to whinges about how "blah blah Golden Ale not the beer that I had back in the old days (2007) and oh look I've got 90,000 post since April this year so I must be great ... blah blah"


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## seravitae (22/12/11)

I'm on another brewing forum where they take this to the extreme, offering a board where elected 'experienced' brewers (tagged on their account) can actually reply to threads in a 'mentor' subforum which causes all other members, experienced and nonexperienced, to be unable to post, so that people can 'see a clear discussion between student and mentor' as it were.

It fails horribly. Nobody can object to incorrect information, and the student gains a direct liking and submissive approach to the individual, and what you merely get over time is a 'copy' of the so called 'expert'.

we dont need more of the same, we need more of different. thats what makes this hobby/obsession good. take advice from whoever you can, use your judgement wisely, research from many sources, and safely test things and note your observations - become your own brewer, not someone elses

edit: and for god sakes don't take any of my advice, hell, i'm on a brewing forum and i don't even brew? why am i still here? ..... what is life?


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## Thirsty Boy (22/12/11)

I dont think you're going to get a "no effort required" way to tell the good posters from the bad - and good/bad will mean different things to diffent people. Your a newby who wants basic info - great Joe Blo is the poster for you, but he,s valuless to an experienced brewer who just happens to have discovered AHb recently.

A trust points system works - eveeryone doesn't contribute to an individual's trust points, but everyone can see how many trust points you have assigned to brewers you think are worth it. and then if they trust you - perhaps the people you trust are worth looking out for.

So - a membr has had a bit of a read around the site and (as unlikely as it seems) has decided he likes the way I post and thinks I seem to know what I'm on about. So he goes to my profile and looks at my trust list and sees that I trust for instance Dr K. so now he has an incling that perhaps DrK's posts might be worth checking out.

You could have a simple script thing where member A assigns trust to member B and then the members that member B trusts are automatically assigned "potential" trust points for member A. If member A has several people on their list that trust another member, that member gets multiple potential points. Kind of like how google increases the ranking of a page as more other pages link to it.

It would be even nicer if the forum was able to identify to you, if a particular thread contained a contribution by members on your trust list, or members with high potential points on your trust list.

Its just a rating system - but Being able to see other peoples ratings can help you to seek out people who might rate highly with you. Sort of easy to do informally as well. As an example, I am about to alter my Sig line to include a few of the people on AHB who's opinions and posting habbits I respect. If everyone did the same, then you have the majority of what I mean already in place and I think that it would moslyt give the OP what they are looking for, without having to have the Mods officially elevate anyone to Guru status. Or the mods could just elevate a few people to guru status.

PS - I dont particularly plan to leave those names in my sig. Just illustrating the point.


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## Tim F (22/12/11)

Another forum I'm on has a voting system - you can give a post a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Then there's a button you can click to show all the highest rated posts. Would probably work pretty well here too...


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## seravitae (22/12/11)

mm, i disagree. many forums have this, but the dominance of ratings come from 'funny' posts or 'clever' posts, so people artificially raise their rating by being a friendly person rather than an honest and plausibly correctly informative person.

perhaps though you could limit the rating system to a specific subforum of which was strict on maintaining brewing assistance only. certainly wouldn't let it loose globally, lest the off-topic subforum would have thumbs going everywhere.

I think a better way of presenting correct or useful information is by actually removing the individual's 'apparent credibility' alltogether, and making the *source* itself credible. Wiki is one way of doing this (and no not the AHB wiki, which i never really thought of as a real wiki. we need an actual wiki server and people who'd bother to publish and critique). At least in that way the author(s) is/are mostly hidden (except for discussion/critique pages) so there's a less likely chance a person will be faux-altruistic in supporting such an endeavor.


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## yardy (22/12/11)

bradsbrew said:


> OK will do. What does FFS mean?



FFS I don't know, most likely some noob shite, do a search and then rate me.


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## WarmBeer (22/12/11)

bradsbrew said:


> OK will do. What does FFS mean?


Fine Friendly Service

You get a lot of that on this forum...


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## pk.sax (22/12/11)

There is 2 kinds of noobs to me:

1) I just read all this on the Internet, can I put 10 kilos of sugar in 5 litres of juice and make rocket fuel? ----- go to hell

2) I made that kit, followed instruction, didn't taste 'fresh', don't know how to word it. Then read up and discovered to use a different yeast and do it cooler. Much better but I want to make beer like real beer. I read all this about adding grain and hops, anyone have simple advice for a beginner or a helpful link (too many to sort through).

You can tell which ones get ignored or ridiculed. The second sometimes get flamed but their questions still get answered. apart from that, helping #2 is easy, step 1 - link them to nickJD's $20 thread. Step 2 - when they come back for more, link to braukaiser. Almost all the information and theory needed to start up is in there. 'almost'.


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## Murcluf (22/12/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Fine Friendly Service
> 
> You get a lot of that on this forum...



I always thought it was "For F*ck Sake" 

@ Nick JD is it true those "the_new_darren" T-shirts come in a choice of 2 colours "talk shit brown" or "troll green"? Mind you I did like the old darren t-shirt better with "IMA F WIT!" printed in large Lettering on the front and back.


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## WarmBeer (22/12/11)

Murcluf said:


> I always thought it was "For F*ck Sake"


OMG, WTF! Sarcasm FTW.

LOL.


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## bradsbrew (22/12/11)

WarmBeer said:


> OMG, WTF! Sarcasm FTW.
> 
> LOL.


Oh if only you used the sarcasm font :icon_cheers:


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## bum (22/12/11)

sera said:


> certainly wouldn't let it loose globally, lest the off-topic subforum would have thumbs going everywhere.


And then you've gotta stick a thumb up everyone you meet at a case swap. The whole idea is almost without value. Only TB's proposal comes close to being useful (the visible trust list thing) but it relies on a noob wanting to research other people's opinions and it is often hard enough to find noobs who want to research their own questions.

Hide postcounts. Piss off the star rating system. Use your own bloody judgement or be happy to follow the instructions on the tin.

Also, some of you guys are talking like there's people going out of their way to ensure people make shit beer. People give the advice they give because it is what they do and it works for them. Doesn't necesarily stop it from being shit advice but I think we need to tone down the malice.


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## WarmBeer (22/12/11)

bum said:


> Also, some of you guys are talking like there's people going out of their way to ensure people make shit beer.


Speedie?


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## bum (22/12/11)

Now, he was a funny one. The dude knew A LOT about brewing - but he only knew a lot about how he brewed and acted like it was the only way to brew. Being a shit person doesn't mean he was wanting people to make shit beer.


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## WarmBeer (22/12/11)

bum said:


> And then you've gotta stick a thumb up everyone you meet at a case swap.


And this one time, at Case Swap...


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## argon (22/12/11)

bum said:


> Snip... It is often hard enough to find noobs who want to research their own questions.



And there's the crux of it, noob or not. Help yourself before demanding it of others.


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## MarkBastard (22/12/11)

We could all perhaps take a different approach to how we handle questions.

A recent example I can think of is when some noob asks a question like "What pressure should I set my regulator at" and people give answers like "10 bar" without even asking the serving temperature.

I spent a bit of time giving a long answer, I would have been better off looking at a FAQ or Wiki and seeing if the answer I was going to give was already included. If not update the FAQ / Wiki and then go back to the thread with a link.

The answer to all noob questions should be to just link them to the FAQ. Once one person has done it, no need for anyone else to chime in with their "OMG RTFM" shit.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/12/11)

The information on this forum, like most information in life, should be subjected to self-editing and critical analysis.

The problem is that people - either here or in "real" life - expect to be able to roll on, without ever thinking for themselves or trying to go "hey, you know what? I'm going to actually see for myself if that's right or true, rather than just believe it because it's on telly or in the paper".

I had a respected and very helpful member disagree with me recently (which I totally respect). The user who asked the question has now two points of view to look at, which are pretty much the opposite of each other. Both probably have replicable results to back up their points of view.

It's now up to him to either a. Research more and/or b. Try it for himself and see what he likes.

We could be both wrong.

Either way the stopping of the flow of information, is counterproductive.

The only way to really see if you believe a user is to research and try their beer (if possible). The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

And when that person asks more information, you have the credibility you need in frothy, beery currency.

Finally, get a book or two (or get "how to brew" online), and the BJCP guidelines. Use information on this forum to supplement it (sometimes the information is the same, but expressed differently and in a matter that you can "get" easily - aka Nick_JD's $20 stovetop method). Analyse your results and have fun.

Goomba


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## TasChris (22/12/11)

Guest Lurker said:


> Well spotted, if you want to learn about passion for all grain brewing, a natural feeling for what will work and what wont, plus learn a bit about Led Zeppelin, then dig up all the old posts from Jayse from the early days of this forum. He taught me everything I needed to know, and I never even met him.


I agree, Jayse's posts got me to AG without too many tears.

The most helpful posters to me have been, ( in no particular order)
Jayse
Justin 
Pint of Lager
Doc
Ross
Pistol Patch
Tony
GL
Kai
Batz
Darren ( must say in the early days)
the rook
Screwy
Snow 
Linz
Pedro
Wes Smith
Wee Stu
Nonic
Big D
Chiller
Jazman
Pumpy
Sosman
Duff
TidalPete

To many others to name and apologies to those that I have forgotten

These are all pretty much posters back from early days when I was getting a grasp on moving to AG, however there have been pearls of wisdom from many other posters that get you thinking outside the square or challenge conventional thinking.

Search the forum well and sift the rubbish out, read books, use google, but the best teacher is to go out and test the theories and ideas for yourself. 
See what works for you and your system. 
What's the worst that can happen?
I have made many mistakes and brewed a couple of pretty average brews but they were my mistakes and I learnt from them.
Just get out there and have a crack at it.
Cheers
Chris


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## staggalee (22/12/11)

speaking of star ratings, I used to be a 5, till some rsole downgraded me to a 3.
A very traumatic experience, let me assure you


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## joshuahardie (22/12/11)

In addition to TasChris' post 
In my experience when MHB or Dr K, say something, time to grab a carpet square and listen.


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## Muggus (23/12/11)

joshuahardie said:


> In addition to TasChris' post
> In my experience when MHB or Dr K, say something, time to grab a carpet square and listen.


Agreed. 
There's a few others who could be added to the list...though it occurs to me that alot of them rarely post these days.


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