# Brewing A Weissbier



## Tony (13/9/10)

First a great link to the style:

http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/weissbier.html

When it starts to warm up......... i just get the urge to throw one of these down. I love em! And when it comes to brewing a german wheat beer....... the harder it is to brew and the messier it is to ferment.... the better it will be as far as im concerned 

I thought i would start a discussion thread about how you make them...... your favorite recipe, mash schedules, yeast strains, ferment temps etc etc.

I have one fermenting at the moment. Its a fairly standard weise recipe that i use often:

weizen

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 54.00 Wort Size (L): 54.00
Total Grain (kg): 11.30
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.28
Anticipated EBC: 7.7
Anticipated IBU: 12.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
26.5 3.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
61.9 7.00 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 4
5.3 0.60 kg. Weyermann Carahell Germany 1.035 26
6.2 0.70 kg. Rice Gulls Australia 1.000 0


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
44.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 6.30 12.7 40 min.


Yeast
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WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen


I Infused to 1.9L/kg @ 52 deg for 10 min
Infused to 63 deg for 45 min with boiling water
Infused to 71 (hit 70) for 10 min then mashed out at this.

I had all sorts of fun keeping the heat in the 63 deg mash cause it was a very thick mash and just refused to circ through the HERMS....... i lost a couple of deg so it was a very cool mash but thats all good....... i want it light and fluffy. The hit at high temp finnished the mash off nice but i still lost a few points to problems with the mash. Got a couple good bottles of starter out with a slow drain while she boiled though so nothing lost really.

I dug out a vial of 3068 i saved direct from the smack pack in Feburary and put it in a starter last weekend. It was just settled out on sunday when i brewed... so nice and active. Pitched it at 5pm on sundar arvo. I go to work at 4:50AM and it was bibbling and foaming at the lid @ 19.7 deg when i went to work. I thought.......... thats gunna be a big mess when i get home.

On getting home, i opened the car door in the garage and smelt yeast! The wife had put a towl under the flask the blow off tube was in, to catch the overflow and i noted a liter of beer has spewed from the ferment as foam during the day. temp was at 20.7 deg c. The fermenter lid was quite domed and on removing blocked blow off tube, beer foam and yeast sprayed to the roof and this cool white foam worm started to grow out the gromet. I RAN to the laundry, flushed the tube with hot water to clear the yeast and break and ran back to find a socker ball size foam ball on the lid. Brushed it aside nad reinstalled the tube, put the fermenter in the fridge and set temp control to 20 deg. I get the best ballance of bananna at 20 deg with this yeast and its bananna i want!

the lid is bulging again as you will see from the pics below. Its passing massive amounts of gas........ it will be done in a few days at this rate but i will be a few liters down...... but thats what you get brewing with 3068. Its a wild ride of smells (sweet honey yeast, sulphur and bananna) mess and stress 

So...... i recon this can be a great thread for those of us who brew em all the time, and those who are starting out and are keem to have a go. Its a simple beer but not so simple to make! Thats part of the lure for me.

here are a couple pics of my weissbier setup when fermenting with 3068 weihenstaphener strain. you will need a 1000 liter fermenter if you dont want to use a blow of tube.

So...... pelase share your experiences, questions and disasters/mess with this wonderful style.

Batz.........look away!


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## manticle (13/9/10)

Not done loads (one partial and one AG to be precise) but the AG turned out so nicely, I wouldn't deviate much from it next time (and that might be soon - nice for summer)

My recipe is in the db but was basically 60/40 pils/wheat from memory. Went with a ferulic acid rest, protein rest and simultaneously decocted 1/3 (held at sacch temp for 20) to bring the whole mash to low -mid 60s. I use an esky tun so step from ferulic to protein was just hot water addition. Probably mashed out because I do with all brews - next time I might try a second decoction rather than hot water (which will mean a double sparge).

Used hallertauer to bitter to about 18, fermented with 3068, cleaned up the mess every couple of days. A balance of clove and banana and a touch of pineapple according to at least 2 others I gave it to.


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## hockadays (14/9/10)

Got one of these on the go as well. Thought I'd just use some glad wrap on fermenter initially but after 2 days I've rigged up blow offs the same as tonys. Grain bill for me was 57% wheat 38% pilsner and 5% carabelge all from weyermann. Mashed 50, 66, 69, 73. OG 1.050 15ibu hallertau. It smells so good can't wait to drink it. Will probably spund it when two thirds through.


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## beerbrewer76543 (14/9/10)

From what I have pieced together the yeast has the biggest effect on this style

Factors affecting yeast flavours: 

Pitching rate (low for esters, high for phenols)
Temperature (high for esters, low for phenols)
Wort Aeration (low for esters, high for phenols)

esters - banana, bubblegum
phenols - clove


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## potof4x (14/9/10)

Planning on doing Zwickels basic weizen, with barret burston malts and Tony's Dark Wheat Dunkel Weizen inside the week. Practising making a starter now with 20 yr old coopers packet teamed to a Tooheys Tin, in preparation for splitting a pack of 3638 for the wheats. 

Breaking new ground at a rapid rate!


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## Swinging Beef (14/9/10)

Drinking a Weisenbock at the moment.
8% abv dark wheat beer.
5.5kg wheat
2.5kg munich
.5kg Caramunuch
.2kg chocolate 
18ibu or Northern Brewer 60minutes
1.5 litre starter of Wyeast 3068
Ferment at 18 deg

This monster threw out about 2 litres of trub and yeast and shit every 24 hours.

One of the best beers Ive ever made.


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## Fourstar (14/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> 1.5 litre starter of Wyeast 3068
> Ferment at 18 deg
> This monster threw out about 2 litres of trub and yeast and shit every 24 hours.
> One of the best beers Ive ever made.



Typically they are. mine hit the keg lastnight with the same resulting trub and krausen vomit. awesomeee! :icon_cheers:


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## vykuza (14/9/10)

Tony, a man after my own heart. I love making weizens during the warmer months, and I just ordered the first lot of grain for this spring yesterday.

I'll be going with a different one out of the gate. I picked up a few hundred grams of Sorachi Ace from Nikobrew.com recently. Opening the packs gives a HUGE hit of grassy lemon aroma; so I'm making a "LemonWeizen". 60% wheat, 40% pils malt. I normally just bitter to 15IBU with either Magnum or Hallertau (or anything else noble I have lying around). For this one I'm going 7.5IBU at 60 minutes, then 7.5IBU at 15 minutes with this lemony hop. I'm considering a dry hop as well; but will taste it out of the fermenter before I commit to that and I'm a bit hesitant with the grassy aroma of the Sorachi. 

Mashing regime will be a ferulic rest at 43 for 10 minutes, low Sacc at 63 and high Sacc at 72 for 3 minutes each. I've been using this mash for a few goes now - and I think I got it from Brewkaiser or someone here, but I have forgotten. Apologies if it's your mash schedule I haven't given you due credit.

Anyone have any thoughts on the Barrett Burston or KWM wheat malts in this style? Having made a few wheat beers using BB, JWM & Weyermann wheat malts, I prefer Barrett Burston over all three. It has a grainier, wheatier and sharper flavour in my opinion, perfect for this style. I find Weyermann's wheat malt a little mustier, and JWM right in the middle.


Recipe: LemonWeizen
Brewer: Nick
Asst Brewer: Betty the Dog
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.08 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 3.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt - BB (1.8 SRGrain 60.00 % 
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt - BB (1.Grain 40.00 % 
20.00 gm Sorachi Ace [12.10 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
5.79 gm Sorachi Ace [12.10 %] (60 min) Hops 7.5 IBU 
11.57 gm Sorachi Ace [12.10 %] (15 min) Hops 7.5 IBU 
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat 


Mash Schedule: Wheatie Mash
Total Grain Weight: 5.00 kg
----------------------------
Wheatie Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
10 min Ferulic Add 7.50 L of water at 49.5 C 43.0 C 
30 min Beta Add 6.00 L of water at 96.7 C 63.0 C 
30 min Alpha Add 6.50 L of water at 94.7 C 72.0 C


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## Tony (14/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> This monster threw out about 2 litres of trub and yeast and shit every 24 hours.
> 
> One of the best beers Ive ever made.



Like i said....... the messier they are, the better they will be........ kinda like a hamburger with lots of juice and runny egg 



Nick R said:


> Mashing regime will be a ferulic rest at 43 for 10 minutes, low Sacc at 63 and high Sacc at 72 for 3 minutes each.



Im sure that is ment to be 30 min? 

I have tried the ferulic acid rest for the cloves but i just dont like a lot of clove in my weisen. After talking to Les the weisguy one night, he informed me that bananna is actually a fault.... which kind of saddened me a tad. I stick with a short protein rest and then a good 45 min rest at 63 deg to get that great dry fluffy quenching finnish in the beer, then the 15 min 71 deg Beta enzyme rest which is in the cool range for this mob of starch eaters. 

My brew has almost finnished now........ it just went absolutly spastic for 24 hrs and now almost nothing.............. about 2 or 3 liters spewed out the tube and there is yeast and foam everywhere.

Im tempted to go have a taste of it actually.


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## mckenry (14/9/10)

Nick R said:


> Opening the packs gives a HUGE hit of grassy lemon aroma; so I'm making a "LemonWeizen". 60% wheat, 40% pils malt. I normally just bitter to 15IBU with either Magnum or Hallertau (or anything else noble I have lying around). For this one I'm going 7.5IBU at 60 minutes, then 7.5IBU at 15 minutes with this lemony hop. I'm considering a dry hop as well; but will taste it out of the fermenter before I commit to that and I'm a bit hesitant with the grassy aroma of the Sorachi.



Yeah, I'd be hesitiant too. Dont want too much lemon or grass, or anything else for that matter, fighting against this beautiful 3068. It's proud on its own. Leave her be I say. Yet, i am somewhat interested as to what might happen. I know I wouldnt do it, but would try yours  
Gotta make a weissbeir now.


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## raven19 (14/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> This monster threw out about 2 litres of trub and yeast and shit every 24 hours.



Do you guys tend to increase your batch size to account for the losses in the vigorous ferment? :blink:


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## manticle (14/9/10)

It's just frothy yeast isn't it? not much actual volume loss.

Forgot to add - I frmented my above version at 17 degrees. No need to push high temps to get the yeast to give up its esters - no need to underpitch either (at least as far as I'm concerned).


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## raven19 (14/9/10)

I figured it would indeed be predominantly gassed up yeast, however with so many litres over a number of days, figured it might make a dent in the batch size?


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## white.grant (14/9/10)

I'm just waiting on a sack of wheat now to start my annual weizen cycle, have my smack pack of 3068 waiting patiently in the fridge.

My cycle is to make a weizen using the smack pack then split off from the yeast cake two cups for another weizen and a dunkel.
I use the entire yeast cake from the dubbel for a weizenbock and split the second hefe weizen cake again for another game of weizen and dunkel.

I take another cup of yeast slurry from the last weizen and use that to ferment a Gose.

I drink a heap of weizen over summer (obviously) but find I can use them to basically make a starter for an 8% weizenbock which becomes really nice by July. The dunkels and the gose are just a bit of variety, I really just want to keep the yeast alive and 8 batches of beer out of a single smack pack appeals to my inner stingy bastard. By the time I get to the gose, the yeast is beginning to lose its fruity oomph though.

I find that starting the fermentation at 17 degrees and then ramping temperature up to 23 from high krausen works quite well for banana esters that are not too over the top and still balances a bit of clove. I also find the flavour profile is more stable after the second pitch.

As for the runaway yeast, I'm using a tray under the fermenter, but I always keep the mop handy!

cheers

grant


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## vykuza (15/9/10)

Tony said:


> I have tried the ferulic acid rest for the cloves but i just dont like a lot of clove in my weisen. After talking to Les the weisguy one night, he informed me that bananna is actually a fault.... which kind of saddened me a tad. I stick with a short protein rest and then a good 45 min rest at 63 deg to get that great dry fluffy quenching finnish in the beer, then the 15 min 71 deg Beta enzyme rest which is in the cool range for this mob of starch eaters.



I love the clove, I find that a lot more refreshing than the banana. I love how you can get them nice and sharp, so it tingles on the lips after a big swig. Mmmm. That said, I've found that a 15 minute ferulic rest and very low ferment temp can throw 3068 out of balance and it does go TOO clovey.



Tony said:


> Im tempted to go have a taste of it actually.



The beauty of the weizen is that it'll taste great already! Might need a toothpick to get the yeast out of your teeth afterwards though



mckenry said:


> Yeah, I'd be hesitiant too. Dont want too much lemon or grass, or anything else for that matter, fighting against this beautiful 3068. It's proud on its own. Leave her be I say. Yet, i am somewhat interested as to what might happen. I know I wouldnt do it, but would try yours
> Gotta make a weissbeir now.



My thinking is along the lines of a slice of lemon in a kristalweizen, though not traditional, can be quite refreshing. If it turns out alright I'll post you a bottle


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## jakub76 (15/9/10)

manticle said:


> It's just frothy yeast isn't it? not much actual volume loss.



No, I have lost a full litre to blow off in the batch I have in the fermenter now. It crawls out as juicy froth and when it all subsides there's a full litre less beer in the vessel.

P.S. recipe is... 51% Wheat, 37% Wey Pilsner, 9% Munich, 3% Crystal 50L. Hallertau bittering up to 13 IBU (Tinseth, 17 Rager)
43C for 10min, infusion to low sacc at 64C for 50min, decoction to high sacc 70C for 30min(was aiming for 72), decoction to mash out at 75.
90 minute boil, I normally pitch at 18 and rise to 20 but this time I've let it go ambient at 21 the whole time.


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## unrealeous (15/9/10)

I've got a weissbier brewing at the moment - using WPL300. The last batch I made was a cracker - easily the best beer I've made so far - had it ready for my housewarming and the guests finished off both kegs of it and I was left with a fridge full of their byo beers. Simple mash schedule of 67 for 60 then mashout at 77, fermented at 18. 

This time around I've followed the mash schedule from braumeister. Initial mashing 38, 55C 5 mins, 63 35mins, 72 35mins, 78 10mins. Pitched at 12 and let it rise to ambient which is 20 degrees at the moment. 24 hours in, smelling gooooood.

I'm also got a second cube of wort which I'm might to try with another yeast... 

Bring on summer.


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## manticle (15/9/10)

jakub76 said:


> No, I have lost a full litre to blow off in the batch I have in the fermenter now. It crawls out as juicy froth and when it all subsides there's a full litre less beer in the vessel.




I guess a litre falls into my range of not much (probably the max edge of the range though) - as in I wouldn't bother trying to compensate for such a loss - I'd just wear it (as quite a pretty hat I'm guessing).


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## unrealeous (16/9/10)

Anyone who ever asks if it's ok to have a lot of head space in the fermenter should be told to brew a wheat beer.




Blowoff tubes are for pussies...


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## Stuffa (16/9/10)

I was getting the itch to make another Weissbier but it's still pretty cold down here in Tassie actually snowing at the moment. So I brewed a Dunkelweissen and then a Weissenbock to go on the yeastcake of the Dunkel. The Weissenbock smells amazing in the ferment fridge. 

With 3068 I pitch at 13C and then raise the temp and ferment at 17C. I find this controls the ferment a little better and gives more balanced flavours. Love this yeast.

I made 3 Weissbiers last year based on the following recipe Paulaner Hefeweisen Clone they all turned out fantastic.

Enjoy your Weissbier :icon_cheers:


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## donmateo (18/9/10)

I'm a big fan of this style and I'm finding it quite difficult to brew well. One thing I'm curious about is the bottle conditioning aspect. Apart from the trickeries of actually brewing the beer - I've found that the few beers that I actually leave a while (perhaps 6 months or more ) sometimes tend to pour with bobbles of yeast all blackened and clumped together floating in the beer. 
Has anyone else had this problem, and I wonder if it's got anything to do with the wheat beer yeast ? I've never had a commercial example do this to me, and I believe that some commercial wheat beer breweries use lager yeast to bottle condition - but I wonder if there is any way around this problem ?


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## vykuza (3/1/11)

Nick R said:


> I'll be going with a different one out of the gate. I picked up a few hundred grams of Sorachi Ace from Nikobrew.com recently. Opening the packs gives a HUGE hit of grassy lemon aroma; so I'm making a "LemonWeizen". 60% wheat, 40% pils malt. I normally just bitter to 15IBU with either Magnum or Hallertau (or anything else noble I have lying around). For this one I'm going 7.5IBU at 60 minutes, then 7.5IBU at 15 minutes with this lemony hop. I'm considering a dry hop as well; but will taste it out of the fermenter before I commit to that and I'm a bit hesitant with the grassy aroma of the Sorachi.




I had this one on the todo list to reply to and report back, but of course, completely forgot about it.

The LemonWeizen was a bit of a flop, and having just cracked in to a Saison using the same kind of idea, I'm pointing toward the Sorachi Ace as the culprit, rather than the idea.

I've found Sorachi Ace as a bittering hop is amazing. As an aroma hop is lemony and nice. As a flavour hop, it ads a very specific, and not entirely pleasant flavour. It's a bit plasticy, a bit tangy (in the same way an off grape is a bit tangy) and quite unsubtle. Not my favourite. The LemonWeizen with the Sorachi Ace as a flavour addition absolutely reminded me of one of those little yoghurt style tubs of SPC "tinned" fruit. 

So I'll be making another LemonWeizen, but this time going back to a 15IBU bittering addition, probably Hallertauer, then maybe the Sorachi as a dry hop, but only for a couple of days. I'm determined to try again, as the potential is there, and it could be great.


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## sama (9/1/11)

Don Mateo said:


> I'm a big fan of this style and I'm finding it quite difficult to brew well. One thing I'm curious about is the bottle conditioning aspect. Apart from the trickeries of actually brewing the beer - I've found that the few beers that I actually leave a while (perhaps 6 months or more ) sometimes tend to pour with bobbles of yeast all blackened and clumped together floating in the beer.
> Has anyone else had this problem, and I wonder if it's got anything to do with the wheat beer yeast ? I've never had a commercial example do this to me, and I believe that some commercial wheat beer breweries use lager yeast to bottle condition - but I wonder if there is any way around this problem ?




never had one in a bottle for that long.Is it mold? Ive seen a similar thing come out of a beer where the bottle hadnt been properly washed prior to filling.


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## sama (9/1/11)

i brew simple 50/50 wheat/pils beers, fermented with wlp300 @ 20c and they are crackers. single infusion 65c.. Awesome summer beer. ala docs wheat beer in the recipe db.Takes a few layers of cling wrap to keep the krausen in tho. :icon_cheers:


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