# Bb Ale Malt



## mashout (13/3/12)

Hi i was looking at doing a brew in the next few days LCPA , the recipe calls for BB ale malt i have a 25kg sack of BB pale malt what difference would this make . only done 3 ag brew so far well the first was a aussie ale called for por late addition as quoted on this site "I found the trick to using POR is to not use it late unless you want a beer to taste like a forestry worker's armpit. " well that was a understatement. Them a all Amarillo PA 100% on the last brew . Next was a Simcoe APA by jyo found on this site and WOW fantastic im hooked .


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## sim (13/3/12)

either malt will be fine for a LCPA i would think. The BB pale is lighter in colour and a pilsner style malt, and to my knowledge pils malt features in LCPA.


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## Bribie G (13/3/12)

As sim says, not a lot of difference between the malts - I have made some convincing Coopers Sparkling clones using the Pale Pilsner - it's mostly in the yeast and the crystal malts, either base malt gives a nice backbone in Aussie brews.


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## Nick JD (13/3/12)

Both BB malts have that characteristic "ammonia-soaked sawdust" flavour that defines Aussie beers and is often thought to be hop-derived. 

I find paying the extra $15 for a sack of Weyermann Pilsner is money well spent. It's a wonderfully neutral base malt.


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## sim (13/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> I find paying the extra $15 for a sack of Weyermann Pilsner is money well spent. It's a wonderfully neutral base malt.




or just use Joe White.


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## QldKev (13/3/12)

Bribie G said:


> As sim says, not a lot of difference between the malts - I have made some convincing Coopers Sparkling clones using the Pale Pilsner - it's mostly in the yeast and the crystal malts, either base malt gives a nice backbone in Aussie brews.




+1, It's an excellent malt for Australian and American styles of beer. 

Something with a good hop or malt presence I find minimal difference between ale and pale, but I wouldn't make a lighter lawn mower lager on the ale.

QldKev


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## JoeG (13/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> Both BB malts have that characteristic "ammonia-soaked sawdust" flavour that defines Aussie beers and is often thought to be hop-derived.
> 
> I find paying the extra $15 for a sack of Weyermann Pilsner is money well spent. It's a wonderfully neutral base malt.



I would have to disagree quite strongly with this statement, sorry. Any of the widely available australian malts can, and do, make very good beer. I have used all of the BB base malts, and I have never encountered the flavour that Nick JD describes above. I have drunk quite a bit of beer made by other brewers with BB malts and not tasted anything amiss with them either.

I personally think the "flavour that defines Aussie beers" is more to do with yeast and fermentation process than with ingredients.

Perhaps its a personal taste-bud thing. I personally won't be buying any more Weyermann Pilsner malt, when for $15 less you can get a sack of Australian malt that does the same job.

Back to the OP - mashout, if you have used the BB pale and not found objectionable flavours, then it will be fine as a base malt for many different beer styles.

happy brewing.


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## Ross (13/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> Both BB malts have that characteristic "ammonia-soaked sawdust" flavour that defines Aussie beers and is often thought to be hop-derived.
> 
> I find paying the extra $15 for a sack of Weyermann Pilsner is money well spent. It's a wonderfully neutral base malt.




Not a flavour I've ever had from using BB malts & it's the malt used by some of Australia's finest craft breweries.... but then who are they to argue......

I'd suggest you might have some other issues there Nick... h34r: 


Cheers Ross


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## Nick JD (13/3/12)

BribieG describes it as "mousecage". I totally agree, and it's why I prefer to use German malts. 

I don't get it with any other brand. I'm not only one who tastes it as the signature characteristic of BB Malts.

I also taste it in a lot of commercial Aussie Lagers - and always thought it was to do with yeast handling - but since replacing BB Pale with Weyermann Pils, it's instantly disappeared from my Aussie Lagers (such that I'd like it back sometimes for authenticity).

It's not particularly unpleasant - but you can even smell it in the freshly milled grain, just as you can smell the signature smell of Boh Pils grain when cracked.

If you're not tasting the difference between Wey Pils and BB Pale in a beer then I'm not sure you're worth discussing this with.

Perhaps BribieG will chime in with his thoughts of this flavour's origin - are we both doing the same thing wrong, Ross, to taste it?

Am I fermenting with S189 too low? h34r:


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## sim (13/3/12)

When i sniff a sack of uncracked BB Pale i do get a whiff of "mouse cageiness", but this would be one descriptor of the overall grainy smell to it, and certainly not "wow whats my nose doing in this mouse cage" type reek. 

I think all very pale malts smell a bit weird, in fact some pale JW gives me a milky impression, like the milky quality in a scone though, not like "im not going to use that malt cause milk and beer will curdle".

Cant say i've come across the "ammonia-soaked sawdust" note yet.


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## Ross (13/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> BribieG describes it as "mousecage". I totally agree, and it's why I prefer to use German malts.
> 
> I don't get it with any other brand. I'm not only one who tastes it as the signature characteristic of BB Malts.
> 
> ...



Don't try & twist words, I never said they taste the same, the grains do have their differences, if they didn't there wouldn't be much point stocking/using different brands.
If you'd said "I get a hint of ammonia that i'm not partial to" I'd be taking some interest in your comments. However, your comments that BB malts smell like ammonia soaked sawdust deserve the reaction they got & likewise not worth discussing further.

Ross

Edit: just seen your pathetic little edit.... it's a shame, I used to really respect your comments, but you're antics are now wearing very thin...


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## Bribie G (13/3/12)

If you get a stubby of VB (go on you know you want to  ) and take a sip, then you get that mousecage aroma up the back of the nose. I thought it was in the yeast as well, but you also get it in XXXX heavy off the tap and I guess the two breweries use different yeasts entirely. 

I don't find it unpleasant, it's just there. In fact last year through a HB club we got hold of some Queensland malt that was destined for China, not domestic market, and I brewed a smash with it. Went up the street to the pub with SWMBO for an hour on the pokies on XXXX heavy, and when I got home I had a pint of the SMASH, and there it was - mice pissing in my mouth :blink: 

Never get it with UK or German malts. If I get it in a future brew (I'm working my way through a sack of ale at the moment) I'll save a bottle for Ross and take some to BABBs. It's really hard to pin down. I didn't get it with my American wheats that are 50% BB. Maybe it's in some batches and not others depending which farms sourced from? BB have a number of maltings so I guess it's not a perfectly standard product.

edit: just had a chew and sniff of some compared to Halcyon, can't smell any ammonia.
edit edit: if you ever kept mice as a kid, or knew someone who did, you'll pick it straight away, the whole house ends up smelling of it. However in this age of hygiene and ratsak not a lot of people know what "mousey" is.


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## winkle (13/3/12)

Well I used to wait behind *Joe White Malt* trucks on Milton Road on the way to work (as they waited to get into XXXX to unload).


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## ekul (13/3/12)

winkle said:


> Well I used to wait behind *Joe White Malt* trucks on Milton Road on the way to work (as they waited to get into XXXX to unload).



Did anything ever fall off? Might be a good place for me to hang out h34r:

I think aussie malts are great. Lately i've been using more BB ale/pale than any other base malt.


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## Batz (13/3/12)

Please cut the personal attacks guys, after all someone just asked about BB ale malt.


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## wessmith (13/3/12)

And just to add to the BB malt thread - what you are smelling in the malt and the mash is the aroma of a VERY fresh malt. It is the same aroma you will get at ANY malting plant. Guys in the trade often refer to it as the "King Cucumber" smell. As for carrying over to the finished beer, I have never experienced that in any mainstream, regional or micro brew. 

Wes


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## JoeG (13/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> I know you didn't. JoeG said, "I personally won't be buying any more Weyermann Pilsner malt, when for $15 less you can get a sack of Australian malt that does the same job."
> 
> Apologies if you thought you were the only one in this thread.



I probably should have worded that slightly better than I did. I am not suggesting that they taste the same in any way - but a couple of kgs of BB pale will certainly do the job in place of a couple of kgs of Weyermann Pilsner.

Will it be the same? No.

Will it be better/worse? Well that is very much dependent on personal taste.

Not to get too far off topic, but - my favourite lager malt is BB Galaxy. I think it makes better beer than Weyermann Pilsner. In fact, I began to dislike the flavours I got from Wey Pils. Now lets be clear - I am not knocking Weyermann malts at all, this is just a personal judgement I have come to after making lots of beer with this particular malt.

I jumped in to defend Barrett Burston Malts, and Australian malts in general, because this thread is in Beginner Partials/AG. I would hate for any brewers new to AG to assume that they had to use imported malts to make great beer. IMHO this is absolutely not true.

OP: mashout, sorry for the tangents, I hope you still get some useful information from this thread.


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## sim (13/3/12)

wessmith said:


> And just to add to the BB malt thread - what you are smelling in the malt and the mash is the aroma of a VERY fresh malt. It is the same aroma you will get at ANY malting plant. Guys in the trade often refer to it as the "King Cucumber" smell. As for carrying over to the finished beer, I have never experienced that in any mainstream, regional or micro brew.
> 
> Wes



Out of curiosity is this at all related to how the malt is silo'ed, or is it just part and parcel of fresh malt?

I have often wondered at how not-beery malt can seem sometimes, and thought it might be a product of storage in silos.


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## Batz (13/3/12)

JoeG said:


> I probably should have worded that slightly better than I did. I am not suggesting that they taste the same in any way - but a couple of kgs of BB pale will certainly do the job in place of a couple of kgs of Weyermann Pilsner.
> 
> Will it be the same? No.
> 
> ...




I agree with you 100% Joe. All the beers I had on tap Saturday had BB malts as there base.

Thanks for your input as well wes, someone who knows more about malt than most of us here.

batz


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## QldKev (13/3/12)

The BB Ale and Munch II are my 2 favourite malts  

I must like rat piss


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## dr K (13/3/12)

I am not convinced that, really, for say, an APA that the base malt, for most home brewers is going to make all that much difference in either quality or price. Not to say that the malts are not different, they are, but the flavour diifernces are subtle and swamped by the mass of other factors (malt freshness, IBU's, hop selection, hop quality, yeast selction, yeast health, fermentation temperature, mash regime [do you allow an easy flow or press the grain bed to extract evry last bit of goodness], even water chemistry and so the list goes on to crack size, sparge speed....)
Attacks on one malster or another and personal attacks show, at best, a lack of respect.

K


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## Nick JD (13/3/12)

dr K said:


> I am not convinced that, really, for say, an APA that the base malt, for most home brewers is going to make all that much difference in either quality or price.



Neither am I. Hop-driven beers don't really require a nice base malt.

But try to make a subtle German Pilsner with BB Pale ... not the mouse peeing in your mouth BribieG likes to portray, but certainly not the beer I'd be making. 

Horses for courses. BB malts are perfect for Aussie Swill and beers where you can't taste anything but hops and spec malts.


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## Batz (13/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> Neither am I. Hop-driven beers don't really require a nice base malt.
> 
> But try to make a subtle German Pilsner with BB Pale ... not the mouse peeing in your mouth BribieG likes to portray, but certainly not the beer I'd be making.
> 
> Horses for courses. BB malts are perfect for Aussie Swill and beers where you can't taste anything but hops and spec malts.




I've been brewing Pilsners for a while now and I find Galaxy the best malt for them, much cleaner and not so malt driven as the imported pilsner malts , and yes I've tried most of them.
I'm not sure what mouse pee tastes like but I don't think I find it in my beers.

Batz


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## Nick JD (13/3/12)

Batz said:


> I've been brewing Pilsners for a while now and I find Galaxy the best malt for them, much cleaner and not so malt driven as the imported pilsner malts , and yes I've tried most of them.
> I'm not sure what mouse pee tastes like but I don't think I find it in my beers.
> 
> Batz



Perhaps Ross can tell us about this "hint of ammonia" that he's aware of. It'd be nice if we can actually find out whether it's an artifact of brewing technique(s) or actuallymalt-derived and some people are more susceptible to tasting it than others.

Maybe it's the mice living in the silos?  Who knows, but it'd be nice to discuss it - I've got half a sack of BB Ale that I'm earmarking for IPAs so I don't have to taste that Aussie Swill character.


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## /// (13/3/12)

I'll stick my hand up with the info that I perhaps, was the person who pushed DC to start offering a BB Ale alternative. JW (and their Agent of the time, cough, Wes) were doing a good job tying up customers who did not think 'pale malt' was a generic malt and there needed to be an Ale malt and a Pils malt variant. With an, at times 3 EBC colour uplift from Pils malt, the malt can add up if you brew to colour like I do.

I may proposition that Nick, your idea of the mouse and its affect is perhaps just down to brand bigotry. I say this without a personal potshot, more so on the basis that i have used several hundred tons of JW and BB per year and can say it is all Fords and Holdens mate. I have taken medals at the AIBA on both for myself and contract customers, its not what you use but how you use it. I also churn thru plenty of overseas stuff.

I'd also ask in your brewing, do you have any temperature control +/- 0.5c? Again, not a potshot, I am just wondering what sort of havoc esters are having on your beer ... without a cold finger up the bung hole to control temp it will leave your brews wildly different ...

Scotty


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/3/12)

I sell/use all types: BB, Weyermann &reg; TF and Bairds. BB is the biggest seller by far in particular Pale.
They are all different in a workable way. I wouldn't want a monotone malt palette to work with anyways.
All my base malts are cool room stored if that makes a difference I dont know.
Nev


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (13/3/12)

I've used BB Pale once for my HECS Free Celebration Ale, with BB Caramalt and some Smaragd to about 25 IBU.

Fermented with US05 at really low temps, and it came up clean.

I'm a little bit snobby and will take Euro malts for their right varieties (Wey Boh Pils, if I'm doing one; Wey Wheat for a Weibier), and I'll use Bairds/TF Perle for the base for most Ales - if for no other reason that it is the same price per kg as BB, so why not go for (perceived) better quality (i.e. why not buy German made Ford Focus and not the Thai made one, if they're both the same price).

Maybe the interaction of yeast, POR (which I assume is in all these aussie lagers) and the malt just provides that mousey feel?

It is different and I have no comment to pass (as I acknowledge my ignorance) on quality - but I'm satisfied with the one beer I did do, and if I needed to use it again, I'd do so.

Goomba


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## ekul (13/3/12)

Maybe the people who can taste mice in their grain should look at better storage scenarios


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## Mikedub (14/3/12)

I think we should get back to the actual topic

Now, what did we decide was the best mash temp for sawdust?

Seriously, Im buying a sack tomorrow, my next 3 brews are a, hoppy saison, dry stout and an English IPA, from what Ive been reading something like Joe White Export pilsner or ale malt should do the trick?


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## mje1980 (14/3/12)

Mikedub said:


> I think we should get back to the actual topic
> 
> Now, what did we decide was the best mash temp for sawdust?
> 
> Seriously, Im buying a sack tomorrow, my next 3 brews are a, hoppy saison, dry stout and an English IPA, from what Ive been reading something like Joe White Export pilsner or ale malt should do the trick?



Trad ale, though you can make ales with the pils. Just need to be aware of the ammonium and sawdust additions, they need to be reduced. Not as much for BB though :icon_cheers:


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## /// (14/3/12)

If we are talking finished beer, fresh saw dust is down to a turpenoid compound, turpenoids as we all know are from hops (mono~ or squestra~ (spelling).

Any papery or catty aromas are oxidation. Perhaps solvent profiles could be coming across for the ammonia ...

Google the beer wheel ... lots of other info on beer faults as well ...

Scotty


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## Bribie G (14/3/12)

Interesting you mention UK styles. My sack of Halcyon is looking a bit sad and no bulk buys on the horizon, so last brew I mixed it half and half with BB Ale, and a bit of wheat, in an English 4.3% ABV pub quaffer and the results should be interesting as I've always only used UK malts in my Pommies. Still in cube, pitching in the morning. I'll report any mice attacks :icon_cheers: 

I'd guess that in a lot of English ales its largely to do with the fruitiness from the yeast, the crystals and the hop accents.


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## HBHB (15/3/12)

I'm fairly sure a beginner asked a pretty reasonable question 3 days ago on this thread.


BB Ale Malt 5-7o EBC
BB Pale Malt 3.3-4.0o EBC

The Ale malt will be a tad darker, yes.

Both will make a good beer. In that recipe.

Hope this helps.

Martin


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## mashout (16/3/12)

thanks everyone for the advise, will use this sack of BB but in the future i will try the other advise given maybe should call this one Censored Ale


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