# Little Creatures Pale Ale - What Has Happened To It!?



## benny_bjc (4/11/08)

Hi,

I knew that little creatures pale ale was not as good as it orignially was, but I still went and bought a 6 pack the other day. 

OH MY.... what has happened!?

The Aroma is almost non-existent!

Taste is a little bitter but almost no flavour hops to speak of! 

Body is fairly bland.

Everything that made LCPA so great seems to be missing!

Has anyone else noticed how bad its got lately? What is happening?


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## Tony (4/11/08)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :super:


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## KingPython (4/11/08)

Could be old stock, your tastes have changed or LCPA really ins't as good as it has been anything really.


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## paul (4/11/08)

Yep, it certainly isnt what it used to be.

The last few that i bought werent any where near as malty and didnt have the hop aroma that they used to.


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## bradsbrew (4/11/08)

Yep it is not as good as it used to be. It can be hit and miss. One good thing is that it makes my LCPA brew better. :chug: 
Murrays Nirvana is better anyway.

Cheers Brad


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## Katherine (4/11/08)

Tony.... think we have being here before! your so anti AMERICA.. LOL!

Sometimes the bottles arent right. Maybe Im lucky as I live down the road from Creatures lovely from a pint glass.


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## dig (4/11/08)

As Alex has mentioned here recently, the pale ale has not changed. At least not how it is brewed and what goes into it. Palates change, seasons change and beers change in the bottle from starting points that change subtly from brew to brew. That's one of the attractions of a hand crafted ale and one of the great joys of drinking it.


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## Tony (4/11/08)

Katie.......... thats why i didnt comment.......... just laughed!

im not going there again 

cheers

B)


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## fergi (4/11/08)

yes well i sort of agree with katie, sometimes from the bottles its a different taste ,same as with coopers pale ale from the bottle it can taste different but generally from a pint glass is the way to go. cheers

fergi


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## Back Yard Brewer (4/11/08)

beer007 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I knew that little creatures pale ale was not as good as it orignially was, but I still went and bought a 6 pack the other day.
> 
> ...



I am a LCPA but am also a JSGA fan as well. What I have noticed since going AG that all the beers I liked previously don't seem to taste like they used to. Reason being? I make beer to a style like APA but I go that lit bit further with hops and malt and know beer such as the before mentioned just seem like every day ordinary beer. That is if they were'nt already before. Brewing ones own can be a bit of a trap.

BYB


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## reVoxAHB (4/11/08)

We had a keg of LCPA on tap at ANHC, available at one of the break-outs. Simply put, it was amazing. Aroma and freshness just big and bold, citrusy, delicious. The pour line reflected the same with 25+ queuing for a pot. The general conversation with those drinking it around me, confirmed it was something special.

Hard to compare a fresh keg from the brewery to a bottled product. Portability, storage issues, etc. Not sure what you got but my last sampling of the product rated A+

reVox


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## dig (4/11/08)

reVox said:


> We had a keg of LCPA on tap at ANHC, available at one of the break-outs. Simply put, it was amazing. Aroma and freshness just big and bold, citrusy, delicious. The pour line reflected the same with 25+ queuing for a pot. The general conversation with those drinking it around me, confirmed it was something special.
> 
> Hard to compare a fresh keg from the brewery to a bottled product. Portability, storage issues, etc. Not sure what you got but my last sampling of the product rated A+
> 
> reVox


That keg was delicious. Alpha pale ale was on tap at the same time in the other room... no queue there.

The kegs of LCPA we served up over the weekend at the Bitter and Twisted festival were also outstanding and the punters soon zoned in on them. We got a lot of "Tried everything, one ticket left, I'm having a Pale".


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## white.grant (4/11/08)

I had a six pack of LCPA over the weekend and found it fresh and flavoursome with a pleasing hop aroma and flavour. It was much better than my last experience with it. 

cheers

grant


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## peas_and_corn (4/11/08)

I've found it to be somewhat variable, but always quite nice :icon_cheers: :icon_drunk:


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## Duff (4/11/08)

dig said:


> As Alex has mentioned here recently, the pale ale has not changed. At least not how it is brewed and what goes into it. Palates change, seasons change and beers change in the bottle from starting points that change subtly from brew to brew. That's one of the attractions of a hand crafted ale and one of the great joys of drinking it.



Bravo.


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## Goat (4/11/08)

I certainly accept what Katie and Dig are saying. BUT: my own maladjusted taste buds have been going to LC in Freo since it opened on a farily regular basis and still think there is a difference between what is on tap now and what was there a few years ago. 

In a small gathering a little while back, in the end pretty much everyone moved onto the Rogers (which IMO is a great beer), rather than persist with the underwhelming Pale. I'm not suggesting that this is a deliberate dumbing down by LCs, and suspect its all about the hops that are being used / are available. But I still reckon there is a difference. 

Having said all that, I'd not say no to a pint right now...

I reckon its a bit like advertising execs saying that the adds on TV aren't louder that the programming either side and use sound pressure readings to prove it - I accept the measurement, but subjectively, the adds still feel louder.


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## devo (4/11/08)

Nothing probably happened, you just may have picked up a 6 pack that has been sitting in a less than desirable storage environment well past it's used by date.


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## Weizguy (4/11/08)

dig said:


> That keg was delicious. Alpha pale ale was on tap at the same time in the other room... no queue there.
> 
> The kegs of LCPA we served up over the weekend at the Bitter and Twisted festival were also outstanding and the punters soon zoned in on them. We got a lot of "Tried everything, one ticket left, I'm having a Pale".


I'm quite sad to say that I didn't have much of the LCPA on the weekend at B&T.
I wasted one of my last tickets on Coopers Dark, which had fond memories. Bland sh!te now.

I have a great recollection of that keg at the ANHC, and the bloody line-up. Should have sold tickets :lol:


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## Snowdog (11/3/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> I've found it to be somewhat variable, but always quite nice :icon_cheers: :icon_drunk:



LCPA has become my go-to beer as I seem to pick up cartons of it and compliment it with a 6-pack on occasion when I'm waiting for the wife to get off work (thank you Cellerbrations Campbell Street Brisbane). I find it is variable, and I note certain dates seem hoppier than others. I usually go for these dates even if they're getting on. There probably isn't anything different per-se except seasonal variance maybe, but I rarely have had a bad lot.... a 6-pack I got in Tamworth in 2007 notwithstanding.


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## Fents (11/3/10)

my brother and i brought a six pack of LCPA and LCBA last night. is still a great beer aroma and flavour wise but each bottle i tasted had a slight metallic twang about 3 secs after you swalloed. its hard to describe but its there in both types of beer.


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## bum (11/3/10)

Fents said:


> each bottle i tasted had a slight metallic twang about 3 secs after you swalloed.


It has been present in every bottle of LCPA I've ever had. I'd also suggest this flavour is more than 'slight' - it makes the beer absolutely undrinkable for me. Every time someone whose opinion I usually regard highly says anything positive about this beer I start to question everything else they say. It is that bad.


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## Pete2501 (11/3/10)

I find it easier to drink it in freo from the tap. 









After they pour it in a glass.


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## benno1973 (11/3/10)

bum said:


> It has been present in every bottle of LCPA I've ever had. I'd also suggest this flavour is more than 'slight' - it makes the beer absolutely undrinkable for me. Every time someone whose opinion I usually regard highly says anything positive about this beer I start to question everything else they say. It is that bad.



I found this a while ago, but since they moved the brewery (they moved next door, didn't they?) this has gone away. It was pretty evident though, even on tap.


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## Ester Trub (11/3/10)

Maybe the guys at Little Creatures got in on the Chinese hop bulk buy?


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## schooey (11/3/10)

I've noticed the same as well. Being a beer I drink a bit, it was disappointing... I sent them an email about one particular slab I bought that I ended up throwing half away. A guy from the brewery rang me the next day to confirm the use by date, but I haven't heard anything since... 

I do find that if it's only a slight metallicy flavour and the beer is really cold, drinking it a little warmer from a glass will make it disappear


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## Nick JD (11/3/10)

Fents said:


> my brother and i brought a six pack of LCPA and LCBA last night. is still a great beer aroma and flavour wise but each bottle i tasted had a slight metallic twang about 3 secs after you swalloed. its hard to describe but its there in both types of beer.



I find the same thing and for that reason don't buy LCPA in bottles - tastes like chewing a 50c coin. In a schooner poured from a keg it's a wonderful beer.


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## Snowdog (11/3/10)

I must be getting good stocks here in Brisbane then as I haven't run across this since that 6-pack I got in Tamworth in '07. Those had that aluminum foil-on-silver-fillings taste so bad... I gave 4 bottles a chance & finally tossed the last couple bottles in the recycle bin un-opened.


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## O'Henry (14/3/10)

Since moving across the walkway to the new brewery they have installed a different filter. I think this has something to do with the flavour change.


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## np1962 (10/10/10)

Found LCPA on tap in the Barossa Valley last night, OK so I have hayfever bad at the moment and missed some of the aroma and flavour, although it was there but the lingering harsh bitterness had me switching to Coopers Sparkling. Mate (pro brewer) commented on how big the beer was but had the same impression that it was out of balance.
Will give it another go when I get the hf under control.
Locals looking for it can find it on tap at The Tanunda Club.(no affiliation)
Cheers
Nige


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## Dazza_devil (10/10/10)

The last 6 pack I had was definitely different to me. They must have changed something. I didn't get metallic but it seemed to have a bit more bite in the bitterness department and a different hop flavour than what I've previously sampled. I wouldn't say it was bad just very different, not sure if it's an improvement though. I liked it just how it was.


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## pbrosnan (10/10/10)

Had it yesterday at the brewery and it was fine. I don't think there's been much change. It is a very hoppy beer and that's not to everyone's taste however it is meant to taste that way. That's what you get when you use a lot of Chinook and Cascade.


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## proudscum (10/10/10)

As the hops they use age the flavour changes.was talking to my mate the headbrewer the other night over a few pale ales(which tasted mighty fine)and he said that he always likes the beers that they produce about 6 months after harvest as the oils and acids settled down and flavours are a little more rounded.looks like the the next limited release could be something from the midlands tasting with low bitterness but big dryhop and nice english malt.....but it looks like we will have to wait and see.


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## peted27 (10/10/10)

Had this on tap at the Grosvenor in Perth a few weeks back, couldnt believe how good it tasted, seems its very hit and miss depending where you get it and how its served


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## enuun (10/10/10)

I think it was mentioned in a beer and brewer issue they changed the yeast and they are now using a single strain? The old stuff they cartered off to Japan or something. Might be the reason why. Anyway the supply of cascade I get from my lhbs changes every few months in terms of aroma and flavour so much so that when I get a good batch, I buy in bulk and store them. Old hops better than bad hops


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## jyo (10/10/10)

enuun said:


> I think it was mentioned in a beer and brewer issue they changed the yeast and they are now using a single strain? The old stuff they cartered off to Japan or something. Might be the reason why. Anyway the supply of cascade I get from my lhbs changes every few months in terms of aroma and flavour so much so that when I get a good batch, I buy in bulk and store them. Old hops better than bad hops



I can taste Galaxy in LCPA now.
Cheers, John.


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## manticle (10/10/10)

I had two pint bottles of pale yesterday - no noticeable metal. However I had a young's special london ale the day before (one of my favourite UK commercials) which tasted like licking a rusty barbecue and would really like to know what it is that causes it as it ruins some otherwise very tasty beers. Zyviec baltic porter from my local is often metallic too.

Any other changes I would put down to the fact that they change the hop combos occasionally (as far as I'm aware) and differences in hop seasons seeing as they use fresh hops. For totally consistent beer try CUB and Lion Nathan products. Anything that's made unpreserved with fresh ingredients (notwithstanding hops being a preservative) is bound to experience some changes from time to time.


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## Nick JD (10/10/10)

manticle said:


> I had two pint bottles of pale yesterday - no noticeable metal. However I had a young's special london ale the day before (one of my favourite UK commercials) which tasted like licking a rusty barbecue and would really like to know what it is that causes it as it ruins some otherwise very tasty beers. Zyviec baltic porter from my local is often metallic too.



Is it the cap getting a bit rusty? Do metallic tastes come through in the pour? 

Are they using Nine Inch Nails in secondary?


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## reVoxAHB (10/10/10)

IMO, the seasonal comments have probably covered it on this one. '09 hops superior over '10 (this thread was started in '08 anyway) etc. etc. 

In regard to metallic flavour (in commercially bottled and distributed beer) try (it in) a glass. Are you necking it? Does the metallic dissipate in glass? If so, probably cap taint (affecting neck and point of contact with lips). 

Is the metallic quality noticeable in flavour, aroma or both? Often, metallic flavour will remain on the palate, so If you've just necked it, give the beer a rest.. switch to another beer (or food) and revisit a few hours later, in glass only (or, at least glass, first). Often, cap taint and possibly fill level (or handling where the product is stored incorrectly on side and beer has come in contact with the cap for an extended period of time) can impart cap taint, or metallic flavour. 

Persons stating draught superior over bottle may also be onto something in regard to filtration. Perhaps LCPA is filtered 5 micron (Lenticular) for draught and sterile filtered for bottle. 

Point is, threads like these incl. has Hargreaves Pale changed, Hightail has changed whatever are better directed to the brewers (in person or via phone, email) who can directly address. Having said that, there's nothing wrong with public scrutiny either but I often wish persons stating this or that would include point of purchase, bottled on date (if available), expiry date, best before date, etc. which is the first thing the brewers (or breweries) will ask you if you ring to complain. It's all about chasing the batch which puts a place and time to standard operating procedure, the method of distribution, the distributor on down the line.

No affil btw and cheers

reVox


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## manticle (10/10/10)

reVox said:


> In regard to metallic flavour (in commercially bottled and distributed beer) try (it in) a glass. Are you necking it?



Jesus no. Me drinking beer out of bottles is limited to being at parties where plastic cups are the only thing on offer (or the beer is rubbish or both).


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## Nick JD (10/10/10)

I've got that metallic taste drinking from the bottle - so the next time I bought it I poured it ... same thing. 

On tap - no metallic taste. If they canned it we'd be able to tell.


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## goomboogo (10/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> I've got that metallic taste drinking from the bottle - so the next time I bought it I poured it ... same thing.
> 
> On tap - no metallic taste. If they canned it we'd be able to tell.



Are you suggesting you'd like it in the can?


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## Alex T (10/10/10)

Hi Guys,

At the brewery we have been discussing this and are thinking this could be a combination of things - either beer residue not being rinsed adequately around the crown seal, or some sort of complex oxidation reaction with the hops. We don't see this in the product when we release to the market, but obviously from the comments above this is something that various people pick up from time to time (and yep, unsure of product age, how it was handled, stored, etc, before it finally ended up in your fridge at home).

If a complex oxidation reaction with hops, then man - not sure who knows the answer.

But for the other potential issue - at the packaging line we are getting the guys to have a look at the bottle shower ex the crowner - maybe we aren't hitting the bottle in the right spots (or perhaps the rinse water is not drying well enough before it is packed?). This is one thing we are potentially battling with as we do not pasteurise - normally in a tunnel pasteuriser the bottles are in a hot shower for about 30mins so by the time the beer is packed the outside of the bottle is beer free, and the bottles normally dried nicely before labelling and packing. (where-as our bottles aren't pasteurised, and are a bit harder to dry from the beer still being cold). Basically the draught product and the bottle product is the same except for the conditioning (only the CO2 and yeast count spec on draught is slightly different).

Anyhow, just letting you know that these comments are actually acted upon behind the scenes. And for the hop interested - just to clarify - yes, there is variation from year to year with all hops, and every year we have to tweak. The blend for the past couple of years has been pretty similar with a dose of EKG for a portion of the kettle hop (along with Cascade), and Cascade and Galaxy for the hopback (we haven't used Chinook for a couple of years now). 

Cheers!

Alex


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## Bribie G (10/10/10)

manticle said:


> Jesus no. Me drinking beer out of bottles is limited to being at parties where plastic cups are the only thing on offer (or the beer is rubbish or both).



Depends on the style. With my new American 8.5% Malt Liquors I have a couple of rather nice little 330ml German Longneck bottles (Originally from Dans, Furstenhooferdorper Pils or something) and I fill them from the keg tap and can walk around swigging them. Also handy to conceal under jacket on train, and under blanket while begging in Adelaide Street. :icon_drunk: :icon_cheers:


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## manticle (10/10/10)

My swigging on trains is entirely limited to lab grade ethanol and orange juice.

Beer is reserved for dinner parties and the ballet.

And cheers alex - a business of any kind actually making an effort to respond to consumers' feedback is appreciated.


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## Bribie G (10/10/10)

Nothing wrong with lab grade ethanol, wish I could get my hands on some

And now back on topic - Alex I live about 200m from our Liquorland and I'm going to walk up there now and grab a sixer and post shortly. So far I have had a couple of American style cream ales around 18 IBU so tastebuds are fresh as, and ready to rock B)


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## Bribie G (10/10/10)

Liquorland on Bribie Island no longer stock LC  

Good to get me off my bum for the walk anyway despite the gale outside.


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## Sydneybrewer (10/10/10)

I have noticed the pales i have had recently have seemed to have more of a linguring bitterness and less stone fruit. But still my favourite beer. :chug: :chug:


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## Acasta (10/10/10)

Sydneybrewer said:


> I have noticed the pales i have had recently have seemed to have more of a linguring bitterness and less stone fruit. But still my favourite beer. :chug: :chug:


Yeah i also noticed this. I thought it was due to my cold...


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## pbrosnan (10/10/10)

jyo said:


> I can taste Galaxy in LCPA now.
> Cheers, John.


The brewery claimed yesterday that the hops are cascade and chinook. I think part of the problem is that taste is highly subjective and greatly influenced by other factors. What tastes like Gallaxy may just be a perception exclusive to you at that time.
Just saw the comment from Alex T re: Chinook. Better get someone to correct the board over the booths on the left then as it says Cascade and Chinook.


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## Alex T (10/10/10)

Hi Patrick,

I will be there this week (I am now based in VIC) - I will check out the boards and get them to correct - I think we have been through the hops about 50 times, but then the boards get redone and someone puts the old stuff back up.... something about the left hand and the right hand.....

Cheers,

Alex


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## np1962 (10/10/10)

Sydneybrewer said:


> I have noticed the pales i have had recently have seemed to have more of a linguring bitterness and less stone fruit. But still my favourite beer. :chug: :chug:






Acasta said:


> Yeah i also noticed this. I thought it was due to my cold...


Hence my resurrection of this topic.
Sinus problems may be exagerating the bitterness??
I will give it another go as soon as I am cleared up.
Chers
Nige


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## pbrosnan (10/10/10)

Alex T said:


> Hi Patrick,
> 
> I will be there this week (I am now based in VIC) - I will check out the boards and get them to correct - I think we have been through the hops about 50 times, but then the boards get redone and someone puts the old stuff back up.... something about the left hand and the right hand.....
> 
> ...


The beer tasted great BTW.


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## Bribie G (11/10/10)

I work opposite the Elephant and Wheelbarrow in Fortitude Valley so I grabbed two pint bottles on the way to the train and drinking them now (edit I'm not on the train -_- ). Very noice and no twang at all, although I far prefer Browndog's APA. :chug:


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## levin_ae92 (11/10/10)

Its yummy


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## Tony (11/10/10)

I love this thread...... it just keeps coming back!

Says something i think!

LCPA.......... Id love to try it on tap at the brewery! i keep going back every 6 to 12 months thinking......... na... i must be wrong, but every time im disapointed.

I dont think its the travel it makes to the east coast either....... their other beers are always fine.

Its just the LCPA........ ive had bottles that were almost amber coloured, some that were pale and so thin they seemed like they were mashed at about 61 and bittered to 80 IBU....... just way way out of ballance. Nothing really wrong with the beer........ just thin, harsh bitter and hoppy.

I always had a real hatred of APA due to this beer, but now that ive learnt to make them myself (but im no expert yet) i will leave the LCPA to the lucky locals at the brewery where it seems is one of the few places where you can get it good!


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## Sydneybrewer (11/10/10)

i must admit as much as i love this beer it is definitely not a session-able beer for me, great for a six pack over dinner (goes with almost any food), but if you want to buy a carton for a party try the bright ale.


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## mika (11/10/10)

Sounds like you need to harden up, totally sessionable


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## Lecterfan (11/10/10)

I must admit, I am no taste guru, and i have only been drinking LCPA for the last 2 or 3 years, but when I read this thread it reminds me of having a shit-hot fishing session where you are totally happy with your haul and then someone tells you "ya shoulda been here last week".

I buy it semi-regularly in pint bottles and I haven't had one that I would class as being anything less than very drinkable. I also prefer the LCBA but my LCPA experiences have been most satisfactory.

Just my 2c worth.

Cheers.


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## enuun (11/10/10)

I am visiting Melbourne in dec. Hope to get to taste it on tap at the LC hall. I only have the bottled ones here. Then can do a comparison


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