# Vicbrew '08 Results



## fraser_john (6/10/08)

I did not see when the results were going to be posted, does anyone have any idea?


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## Fourstar (6/10/08)

Good question!

I have 3 styles I want to see results for. 1st comp ive entered.


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

They usually take about a week or so for the full results to come through.

I sometimes get them early through the Melbourne Brewers mailing list. If I do will post them on this thread.


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## Thirsty Boy (6/10/08)

I presume if you placed in a category, that you get a reasonably quick notification so that you have time to get your subsequent entry for the AABC in order??

Not that I am expecting this to be an issue for me - but I can live in vain hope.


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

Results will be out in plenty of time for people to get their entries ready for the AABC. 

Rest assured that nobody at Vicbrew wants to see Victoria under represented in the AABC and give those interstaters a head start, especially with the ANHC in Melbourne.


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

Just recieved email of draft results ... hot off the press. 

View attachment FullResultsVicBrew2008_draft.pdf


View attachment SummaryOfResultsVicBrew2008_draft.pdf


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## Hutch (6/10/08)

Chris Taylor said:


> Just recieved email of draft results ... hot off the press.


Top effort Chris - Champion Brewer!


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

Hutch said:


> Top effort Chris - Champion Brewer!



Thanks Hutch, although I do feel like I cheated a little bit by entering a Cider (came 2nd out of 3 entries)


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## Hutch (6/10/08)

Chris Taylor said:


> Thanks Hutch, although I do feel like I cheated a little bit by entering a Cider (came 2nd out of 3 entries)


Yeah, and by that measure, it also got 2nd last in the category - don't go bragging about that!
...and big-ups on the result in the Wheat beer category - having tasted your case-swap beer last Christmas, I'm NOT surprised!
Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## BrenosBrews (6/10/08)

That was pretty quick. Congrats to all who did well. 36 out of 56 for my first ever comp entry is alright I guess...


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## Fourstar (6/10/08)

Well thirsty,

Best of Show!

Congrats! :icon_cheers: 

Well for my 1st comp

APA - 42 of 56
Belgian Wit - 25 of 31
Specialty - Choc porter 14 of 16 (not suprised due to chocolate being heavily on the low end.)

Best to go off the tasting notes to work out why ive scoed so poorly, hopefully its simple stuff and not infection etc.

Congrats to all the place getters!


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

Hutch said:


> Yeah, and by that measure, it also got 2nd last in the category - don't go bragging about that!
> ...and big-ups on the result in the Wheat beer category - having tasted your case-swap beer last Christmas, I'm NOT surprised!
> Cheers :icon_cheers:




That was the Weizenbock I brewed for the Xmas in July caseswap (has placed twice now).

Also the Mild I have brewed for this current swap placed 2nd, so looks like I should keep entering my case swap brews


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

Fourstar said:


> Well thirsty,
> 
> Best of Show!
> 
> ...



Top job Thirsty, getting BOS at your first Vicbrew!!


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## Fourstar (6/10/08)

Whats the usual turn around time for tasting notes/feedback/recipe book?


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## Quintrex (6/10/08)

Chris Taylor said:


> Top job Thirsty, getting BOS at your first Vicbrew!!


 Also glad to see the apricot berlinerweiss got a showing 

Nice work
Q


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## BrenosBrews (6/10/08)

Fourstar said:


> Whats the usual turn around time for tasting notes/feedback/recipe book?



Score sheets should be mailed out next week according to an email sent out with the results attached. I'm very curious to see what was good and bad. I'm a bit confused about the scores...I thought it was out of 50?


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## Maple (6/10/08)

I too thought it was out of 50. The only thing I can think of is that it is out of 50 with 3 scores that are cumulative, i.e. it's really out of 150?? not sure, maybe someone in the know can let us new comp go'ers in on it. I'm stoked with a 3rd in the specialty cat. :super:


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/10/08)

Maple said:


> I too thought it was out of 50. The only thing I can think of is that it is out of 50 with 3 scores that are cumulative, i.e. it's really out of 150?? not sure, maybe someone in the know can let us new comp go'ers in on it. I'm stoked with a 3rd in the specialty cat. :super:



Correct scores are accumaltive accross 3 judges, so are out fo 150. 

I did notice that a lot of the categories they could only get 2 judges, so they would have worked out the 150 on the basis of just 2 score sheets in this case.

BTW if you guys are entering comps, putting your hand up for the judging is a great way of getting to know styles better, and getting to know what other brewers are doing. It certianly hsa improved my brewing a lot.


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## fraser_john (6/10/08)

Well I am happy, but I guess I have a lot of learning to do still:

45th of 50 for my APA
6th of 30 for my American Barleywine, stoked with this
16th of 30 for my Russian Imperial Stout (American style) - so so
16th of 21 for my weizen, I figured this was not going to do well

But, now to look forward to the scoring sheets!!! Hope to find some pearls of wisdom!


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## Thirsty Boy (6/10/08)

Thanks Guys.

Not my first Vicbrew Chris, my second - just the first time I have managed to place anything. Pretty happy - and congrats to you as well Mr Champion Brewer. If the beers of yours I have tasted are any indication, something like this was inevitable.

Thirsty


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## RussTaylor (7/10/08)

Chris Taylor said:


> Correct scores are accumaltive accross 3 judges, so are out fo 150.
> 
> I did notice that a lot of the categories they could only get 2 judges, so they would have worked out the 150 on the basis of just 2 score sheets in this case.



How do you calculate it out of 150 if there's only two judges? Anyone know the pros and cons between adding up the scores and using an average?


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## Beer Krout (7/10/08)

RussTaylor said:


> How do you calculate it out of 150 if there's only two judges? Anyone know the pros and cons between adding up the scores and using an average?



My guess would be to add the two scores up and multiply by 1.5.

On the question of 2 judges v 3 judges.
The pros for two judges are:
One judges personal biases have more influence on your score.
And the cons for two judges are:
One judges personal biases have more influence on your score.

The more judges the more personal biases get evened out.
Also of note.
All judges scores have to be within a 7 points spread of each other for each beer, anyway.

BK


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## Beer Krout (7/10/08)

Congrats to All the Winners except my b*st*rd mate who took out the Dark Ales with a southern brown.

I only managed equal 6th, but top of the gordie brown's.

Best of three mate, we'll enter 'em in the Beerfest 2009 in February.


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## haysie (8/10/08)

Shattered  
Beaten in a playoff :lol: equal 3rd Dark Ale, countback lost.

Absolutely chuffed, entered 4 beers, 2 I thought were very good, the other 2 good.
The results justified my thinking, 4th , 7th, ummm 15th, umm 19th.
This was my first comp entries.

Thanks to the judges, stewards, committee, vicbrew, brewers and everyone else whom makes this happen. I can only see myself getting more and more involved.


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## chris.taylor.98 (8/10/08)

haysie said:


> Shattered
> Beaten in a playoff :lol: equal 3rd Dark Ale, countback lost.
> 
> Absolutely chuffed, entered 4 beers, 2 I thought were very good, the other 2 good.
> ...



Well done Haysie

... another one turned to the dark side  

There's no turning back now , next thing you will be trying to "brew to style" god forbid and doing other unnatural acts ...

Now I know I harp on about this, but if you really want to get a good understanding of how to compete etc, there is no better way then actually putting up you hand for judging and/or stewarding at the comps, and they are always in need of a helping hand.


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## Kleiny (8/10/08)

First comp

4th Munich Helles
5th APA
7th Weizen
13th Porter

and a couple not worth a mention  

Does anybody know if we get the judgeing sheets sent to us or if we have access to them, as i wont to know how or where my beers can be improved or where they fall down?


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## haysie (8/10/08)

Kleiny said:


> First comp
> 
> 4th Munich Helles
> 5th APA
> ...


 onya kleiny, they get sent out. see em soon


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## Kleiny (8/10/08)

awesome

it was pretty much the reason why i entered

so as i could get some good constructive feedback

thanks haysie


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## Maple (21/10/08)

Has anyone received their score sheets yet? I'm pretty keen to see the breakdown and put the feedback to good use. I know as soon as I post this the mailperson will drop it into the letterbox...


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## bouncingcastle (21/10/08)

Maple said:


> Has anyone received their score sheets yet? I'm pretty keen to see the breakdown and put the feedback to good use. I know as soon as I post this the mailperson will drop it into the letterbox...



Not yet for me... I'm hoping to get the notes by the weekend so i can improve my next brew


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## BrenosBrews (21/10/08)

Maple said:


> Has anyone received their score sheets yet? I'm pretty keen to see the breakdown and put the feedback to good use. I know as soon as I post this the mailperson will drop it into the letterbox...



None for me either at this stage.

No brewing for me this weekend as I'll be at ANHC but I only have ONE bottle of my entered beer left and really want to drink it while reading the feedback, don't know how long it's going to last though as my latest batch still needs another week or so before it's ready to drink.

How long does it take to put something in the mail anyway?


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## Maple (22/10/08)

I have just found out the score sheets will be sent out next week. The organizers are flat out with AABC and the ANHC, but are making every effort to get these out as soon as possible. Just thought I'd pass on this update (that most of you will get via email anyway)

Maple


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## fraser_john (6/11/08)

Scoresheets arrived in my mail box today, cannot wait to get home now!


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## Wardhog (6/11/08)

Got my scoresheets, it appears that the judges liked the way it looked, but thought there was an acetone flavour in the beer. After a search for "acetone" on this site revealed nothing, I'll throw this question out there. I'm not familiar with this beer fault.

Given I've been told that an acetone flavour was present in my beer (it can't have been too bad, 91/150), what is the nature of this problem? The judges' notes say to "look at the fermentation process", but no more than that. What went wrong, and what can I do to fix this problem in future brews?

Yeast used was S189 @12C for 2 weeks (1.041 - 1.012), lagered 2 weeks at 4C. 5/5 from both score sheets I received on how the beer looked.

Could it be because I dumped the yeast straight from the packet into the wort without rehydrating first?

Edit : I'll double check when I get home, but I'm pretty sure it was acetone. Maybe they meant acetobacter?


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## Fents (6/11/08)

you sure they wrote acetone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone

maybe they meant autolysis?

i've searched for you too and can up with jack and now i wanna know too. good luck mate, someone here will know.


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## geoffd (6/11/08)

I think you would be best asking the judge in question to explain what he meant, he may have chosen the wrong word to describe what he has perceived. It's a learning process for the judges too, so feedback is just as helpful to them as it is to you.

its a bit like someone saying it tastes like shit, but you'ld have to eat shit to know that, wouldn't you. My best guess is he meant solventy, but as i said, i would go to the source


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## shonky (6/11/08)

Hi acetone is the nail varnish smell - it indicates higher or 'hot' alcohols are present. It can be caused by too high fermetation temps (obviously not in your case). Perhaps it could have been caused by yeast stress :unsure: perhaps rehydrate next time. What temp did you pitch the yeast at and what sort of temp control did you have to bring it down?

Hope this helps


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (6/11/08)

Wardhog said:


> Got my scoresheets, it appears that the judges liked the way it looked, but thought there was an acetone flavour in the beer. After a search for "acetone" on this site revealed nothing, I'll throw this question out there. I'm not familiar with this beer fault.
> 
> Given I've been told that an acetone flavour was present in my beer (it can't have been too bad, 91/150), what is the nature of this problem? The judges' notes say to "look at the fermentation process", but no more than that. What went wrong, and what can I do to fix this problem in future brews?
> 
> ...



This is a guess without knowing what the judges have written but a solvent like flavour could be perceived as acetone.
Generally cause could be that at some stage your fermenting temperature got a little too high, did you do a diacetyl rest at higher than ferment temps?
Bit of a stab in the dark really Wardhog, just trying to add a possibility.

C&B
TDA


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## bouncingcastle (6/11/08)

Got my results last night.

I entered my first ag in, it didn't fit any of the styles - so I just picked american pale ale.

Happy to say the least (they said exactly what I wanted them to say)... "good beer in it's own right, completely not to style"

Body was good, clarity was good, flavour was balanced (although all out of style). No fermentation faults, no infections

I'll drink to that 

Next comp, I will actually brew one to style and see how I go


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## Wardhog (6/11/08)

shonky said:


> Hi acetone is the nail varnish smell - it indicates higher or 'hot' alcohols are present. It can be caused by too high fermetation temps (obviously not in your case). Perhaps it could have been caused by yeast stress :unsure: perhaps rehydrate next time. What temp did you pitch the yeast at and what sort of temp control did you have to bring it down?
> 
> Hope this helps



Actually, this makes sense. I didn't have a fermentation fridge, only a heat pad, a fridgemate, a blanket, and the ambient temperatures in my shed in June. I'm only really controlling the lower bounds of temperature, i.e. only making sure it doesn't get too cold. I didn't think too hot was a possibility given the conditions.

I'm having a hard time imagining the beer deviating too much from winter ambient temps in outer Melbourne (10-14C max), but it's possible, I suppose.

Does anyone know what "too hot" is in the case of S189?

Edit : TDA, good point. I did crank the fridgemate up to 18C for 2 days when SG < 1.018. Too early, do you think?


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## therook (6/11/08)

Wardhog said:


> Actually, this makes sense. I didn't have a fermentation fridge, only a heat pad, a fridgemate, a blanket, and the ambient temperatures in my shed in June. I'm only really controlling the lower bounds of temperature, i.e. only making sure it doesn't get too cold. I didn't think too hot was a possibility given the conditions.
> 
> I'm having a hard time imagining the beer deviating too much from winter ambient temps in outer Melbourne (10-14C max), but it's possible, I suppose.
> 
> Does anyone know what "too hot" is in the case of S189?




I'm pretty sure Warren used this yeast early in the year and the temp got up to around 16c and it was still an excellent beer.

Rook


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## warrenlw63 (6/11/08)

Yeah Rook was just looking at that. My guess the only way Wardy could get acetone from S-189 would be from varnishing his nails too close to the fementer!  

With a partial flamesuit on I think that BJCP training in some cases will only serve to make judges find faults in a more esoteric type of way. Thing being is the fault there in the first place?

Was it found by one or all of the judges Wardy?

Warren -


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## Wardhog (6/11/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> Was it found by one or all of the judges Wardy?



Both of them. I only got two score sheets back.

Don't get me wrong, I'd trust their opinion over my own experience. I want to take their comments and become better at brewing beer - not try to prove them wrong. 

I'll put the exact wording up a bit later on.


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## Wardhog (6/11/08)

Here are the comments : 

1. "A good approximation of the style let down by some fermentation issues. A nice beer that presents well initially on the palate and nose but is let down by some estery/acetone characters that present on the finish. Perhaps look at your fermentation temperature and possibly yeast strain selection to address this."

2. "Investigate fermentation conditions. Acetone notes are overriding any malt flavour"

FWIW, I came 17th out of 21, but I'm still pleased with the result, it shows improvement on my behalf. I choose to blame Thirsty Boy and everyone else who came in ahead of me for overachieving and causing me to come 5th last. NEXT TIME LEAVE THE OKTOBERFESTS FOR THE MERE MORTALS TB!  

Now I know what to do to avoid this fault in future - thanks fellas. I have since procured a fermenting fridge with which to use my fridgemate. I'm now led to another question.

When fermenting in a fridge with a fridgemate, do you just have the temperature probe sitting somewhere inside the fridge, or in the wort? Previously, I'd taped some sponge material to the side of the fermenter and jammed the probe between the sponge and fermenter.


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## fraser_john (6/11/08)

Three of mine tended to be slightly out of style, either too much hops, too low carbonation, the fourth did well and would only need a few tweeks to do much better.

One of the four, the weizen scored really poorly because of the presence of diacetyl(.sp?), by both judges. I have never detected it, but that does not mean anything I guess. With a Lager its a matter of bringing it back up to 20 degrees or so after lagering to get rid of it.

How do you ensure its not there with a wheat???


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## haysie (6/11/08)

Fraser, if your beer was on the first flight, it would make a hell of a difference, they/ judges are unwilling to score big in case of a better beer comes up. 
That is totally bollucks for peeps entering, yet so true.


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/11/08)

haysie said:


> Fraser, if your beer was on the first flight, it would make a hell of a difference, they/ judges are unwilling to score big in case of a better beer comes up.
> That is totally bollucks for peeps entering, yet so true.



In some competitions they start off with a calibrating beer to try and ensure this is not the case. They did last year that I judged at Vicbrew and they did it at the Nationals this year too.


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## chris.taylor.98 (6/11/08)

Wardhog said:


> Here are the comments :
> 
> 1. "A good approximation of the style let down by some fermentation issues. A nice beer that presents well initially on the palate and nose but is let down by some estery/acetone characters that present on the finish. Perhaps look at your fermentation temperature and possibly yeast strain selection to address this."
> 
> ...



In an attempt to defend the indefensible and mainly because I have been known to judge at Vicbrew before (not saying I did a great job of it mind), and cause I did bother to do the BJCP (and only just scraped through).

If you find something "odd" on all the judging sheets like "acetone" probably means the judges conferred and it seemed to resonate with them that there was a defect that they could describe as being acetone like (does not necessary mean it was acetone though, but that was the judges perception on the day).

Remember they are tasting a flight of beers and comparing them all, and I know from being in judging panels you do expect that the beers will be of a certain quality to get high scores. Also the judging process basically focuses more attention on defects in beers. It makes a big difference when you are trying beers side by side with a scoring sheet in front of you, compared with just tasting them in isolation by yourself or with your mates.

Also take if from some one who as a lot of judging sheets, you can not take a single set of score sheets as indicative of the quality of the beer you entered. You need to enter it a couple of times and then you will start to see patterns that make sense. I have one particular beer that has been judged best of show, and can last in a flight of 20 at a subsequent competition.

So hope this doesn't put you off the whole competition thing. In fact would be great to see some of you guys turn up and get involved in the judging. Its a really great way of learning a whole heap in a short amount of time, and we are always looking for more judges.


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## Wardhog (7/11/08)

Chris Taylor said:


> In an attempt to defend the indefensible and mainly because I have been known to judge at Vicbrew before (not saying I did a great job of it mind), and cause I did bother to do the BJCP (and only just scraped through).
> 
> If you find something "odd" on all the judging sheets like "acetone" probably means the judges conferred and it seemed to resonate with them that there was a defect that they could describe as being acetone like (does not necessary mean it was acetone though, but that was the judges perception on the day).
> 
> ...



Please don't misunderstand me. The judges are right. I had one of my remaining bottles last night, and there it was - acetone, or a solvent-like flavour that did indeed overpower the finish. I have had a go at judging a couple of times, and I do appreciate the difficulties judges face.

I feel the comments and score they gave were appropriate (it was just Thirsty Boy that did me in  ), and I intend to use them to improve my brewing. I am not in any way upset and I am not disputing the call they gave on my beer - I just was not familiar with the fault they were talking about.


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## Hutch (7/11/08)

Wardhog said:


> Please don't misunderstand me. The judges are right. I had one of my remaining bottles last night, and there it was - acetone, or a solvent-like flavour that did indeed overpower the finish. I have had a go at judging a couple of times, and I do appreciate the difficulties judges face.
> 
> I feel the comments and score they gave were appropriate (it was just Thirsty Boy that did me in  ), and I intend to use them to improve my brewing. I am not in any way upset and I am not disputing the call they gave on my beer - I just was not familiar with the fault they were talking about.


Hey Wardy,

One of the judge's comments refered to fermentation control, and choice of yeast. Sounds like the temp didn't get too excessive during primary, though fluctuations (day, night) can stress the yeast, and have a negative impact. The next biggy to consider would be choice of yeast. My own experience of S189 is pretty positive, however a recent lager shows clear signs of acetaldehyde, even though I pitched two rehydrated packs, and fermented at a constant 12 degrees. I also had big acetaldehyde the last time I used Us-05, hence I don't use it any more. 

My experience tells me that it can be really hit or miss using dry yeast - maybe has something to do with the age of the packs, or the conditions they've been stored in. What I CAN suggest is that you consider trying the equivalent liquid strain (or one appropriate for the style) as a possible solution the "acetone" problem. I have yet to make a bad beer with liquids (at least where the yeast was responsible).

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

...Incidentally, all three judging sheets I got back from AABC judged my Best Bitter as an ESB. So obviously the judges can make some pretty fundamental mistakes some times, though the comments are more important than the overall score IMHO.


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## devo (7/11/08)

I found my VICBREW judging sheets a hell of a lot more constructive, informative and legible than the sheets I got from ANAWBS.


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## fraser_john (7/11/08)

Hutch said:


> ...Incidentally, all three judging sheets I got back from AABC judged my Best Bitter as an ESB. So obviously the judges can make some pretty fundamental mistakes some times, though the comments are more important than the overall score IMHO.



Its gotta be tough I know, one of mine was an Imperial Stout, made in the American style, so had lots of US aroma hops, it got heavily penalised as not appropriate for style. 

Oh well, I was just happy to see that none of my beers had tragic faults.


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## Fourstar (7/11/08)

fraser_john said:


> Its gotta be tough I know, one of mine was an Imperial Stout, made in the American style, so had lots of US aroma hops, it got heavily penalised as not appropriate for style.
> 
> Oh well, I was just happy to see that none of my beers had tragic faults.



Agreed Fraser,

It seems as thou if you are not in the 'middle band' of the style you're results may favour poorly.

For example, my APA had softened bitterness and loss of aroma as the beer was 6months old~ as well as pushing the colour/malt profile to the limits of an APA.

comments from both judges were low bitterness/aroma and strong malyness, too full of a body for the avg APA, no faults but pushing the limits of the style.

One judge did pickup the beer seemed aged and recommended next copetition to back off on the special base malts(munich) and brew ~ month beofre the comp to keep the hop profile high.

I found ti funny my beer was 40IBU but lacked bitterness. I gues thats an aged APA for ya!


Im just glad none of my beers had infections, although all low carbonation. I will have to work on my bottling transfer from a keg in the future. I even bottled w/some dex to help carbonation but that failed  my Belgian Wit was almost flat.


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## fraser_john (7/11/08)

Fourstar said:


> I will have to work on my bottling transfer from a keg in the future. I even bottled w/some dex to help carbonation but that failed  my Belgian Wit was almost flat.



I also suffered this problem, my weizen was woefully undercarbonated by the sound of it and I had added 2.5gms of sugar after transferring from keg, and that was 8 weeks out from competition day, so it should have used that sugar up!

It was a great learning experience and I have gone through the sheets and transferred the comments to a single sheet that I shall hang near my computer in the brewery. I'll refer to it when brewing those styles again and try get closer and get better scores next time!

Planning on investigating other comps and really trying to do better, this hobby is great and there is always room for improvement. I see how well other brewers have done in a number of styles and want to get closer to that(e.g. Chris Taylor).

Wish I lived closer to other brewers, I think that also hurts a little bit, not being able to bounce tastings off others


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## Fourstar (7/11/08)

Definitely Fraser,

I understand why allot of brewers say 'competitions are for the academics who brew to make a stylisticly perfect beer' not just something to enjoy within a style profile.

The rules of a comp make things difficult for some that like to push the boundries of a style and lose points because of this even if its a top notch beer.

In most instances I brew 'to style' but some like the APA I entered was deliberatly pushing the top end of the malt spectrum hence the markdowns. It probably would have favoured better as an amber ale due to the SRM and malt profile. Nothing to be 'upset' about but a great launchpad to help me modify my brewing practices/style interpretations for beers i wish to enter into competitions.

Interested to see how my SNPA clone turns out in the coming weeks as this is the obvious benchmark of the style. If its the ducks nuts, i know im onto something for my 'style benchmark brewing'.


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## Andyd (7/11/08)

Wardhog said:


> Please don't misunderstand me. The judges are right. I had one of my remaining bottles last night, and there it was - acetone, or a solvent-like flavour that did indeed overpower the finish. I have had a go at judging a couple of times, and I do appreciate the difficulties judges face.
> 
> I feel the comments and score they gave were appropriate (it was just Thirsty Boy that did me in  ), and I intend to use them to improve my brewing. I am not in any way upset and I am not disputing the call they gave on my beer - I just was not familiar with the fault they were talking about.



G'day Wardhog,

I was one of those Judges... and this is one of the ones I do recall. 

One of the things I like to try to do on a scoresheet is not over-analyse, otherwise I find my comments are not as accurate as they could be. On this beer I picked up a familiar smell, which I came around to realising was similar to acetone. So despite not having a "BJCP sanctioned" source of a fault that leads to acetone specifically, it's still what I needed to write down. I"ve often had advice along these lines - "if it smells like something you know, write it down and figure out what might cause that later". I personally think a few judges spend too much time analysing what they're experiencing and trying to drop it into a BJCP "box" for a particular fault, at the risk of distorting what is actually happening in the beer.

Now, as has been pointed out (and I could potentially have been more clear on the sheet), higher-order fusel alcohols can lead to an acetone like aroma, and these could (as has been pointed out) get generated by yeast under stress, or fermentation temps that get too high (in the order of mid 20s I'd suggest, depending on the yeast used).

So it sounds like you are well on the way with some of the recommendations here. I would certainly try at least rehydrating your yeast (just in water as I understand, rather than wort), and I'd strongly recommend giving an equivalent liquid yeast a shot (I tend to have more success with these). 

Also remember that fermentation temperature can sometimes exceed ambient temperature if left to its own devices, so if you can you could try hooking up a data logger to see what your peak temperatures are actually reaching (ok - maybe that's the beer geek in me coming out too strongly  )

Anyway, here's to many good beers for you, and good on you for having the guts to put your beer into the comp - regardless of the result, I'm a firm believer that competitions provide an unbiased assessment of your product that will only help you improve your beers.

Regards,

Andy


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## Darren (7/11/08)

Wardhog,

Thoses strong dark lagers can be a real bitch to brew correctly. Rather than temp fluctuations i would say the cetone"has come from under-pitching. The cold ferment temps and relatively high OG is always going to pose a problem with this style.

Don't worry about it. Yes can bet your lefty that there were others in the flight with a very similar fault (acetaldehyde).

cheers

darren

spellimg


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## Wardhog (7/11/08)

Darren said:


> Rather than temp fluctuations i would say the acetone has come from under-pitching.



I'd agree with you there, Darren. I find the raising of temperature to mid 20s very unlikely, and will look at types of yeast and pitching rates more closely.
I've read on this site a thousand times that you should pitch 2 packets of dry lager yeast and posted in this thread without twigging that I'd only pitched one.


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## Leigh (8/11/08)

Interesting discussion guys. I've got a lager I brewed recently that has a slight acetone "twang" to it...only used 1 packet of lager yeast, so will try 2 packets when I brew this one again


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## haysie (3/12/08)

Did anyone else not receive judging sheets? I received nothing. Lodged a complaint re. the judging of brewery workers, received a reply, yet no personal results.
Are there any others?

Haysie


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## fraser_john (3/12/08)

I got all of mine, sorry to hear about your problems!


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## haysie (3/12/08)

fraser_john said:


> I got all of mine, sorry to hear about your problems!




not a thing John, maybe a missed addy etc, yet when i lodged a complaint I got an instant response?
maybe superhero can inform??

nevertheless,

apart from spending good money, why the f### would i want results? keep people honest!


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