# Want A Brewery ?



## Fatgodzilla (1/1/08)

Found the following whilst trawling the Net. Anyone want to own your own clone brewery ? Couldn't link this but details within the story if you want to see pictures. Note : I have no affiliation with this mob at all. Just interested in what the thing is about.




> Brewing Kettles
> 
> 
> Brewing Kettles
> ...


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## NRB (1/1/08)

If I wanted to see pictures, what website would I load?


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## Fatgodzilla (1/1/08)

NRB said:


> If I wanted to see pictures, what website would I load?



try "Alltype Business Sales"

Here's one I saved thinking it would go down well as a new year resolution " I must cut back on my drinking"


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## Jazzafish (1/1/08)

Sounds like the beer factory


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## head (1/1/08)

Sounds interesting. It is definately beer factory/ Brew-4 u/U-brew it or one of the other offshoots. I couldn't see a location however. Another thing, it looked as if they may have been selling the system. not an already set up and running BOP. Any more info available?


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## joecast (1/1/08)

looks a bit like brew-by-you in tassie with a few touch ups. i know they are/were for sale for about that price.


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## NRB (1/1/08)

Ok, here's the website for the brewery for sale if you want to feast your eyes on a little SS porn.


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## deckedoutdaz (1/1/08)

Deffinately brew by you here in hobart


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## Ross (1/1/08)

They are a mob in Brisbane selling equipment to anyone that wants to start.
They certainly make it look a lot more profitable than what it is in reallity.
With 100+ brews a month needed to break even (that's without borrowings), you'd need to be a brave man...

Cheers Ross


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## Fatgodzilla (1/1/08)

NRB said:


> Ok, here's the website for the brewery for sale if you want to feast your eyes on a little SS porn.



Well done - still can't figure out how to do the link thing properly.

The main reason I put up the advert was that the price to set one up appears .. well, high. The numbers put forward as potential profits, investor returns etc. - well I can't see how anyone can make a profit on their investment. Projected gross profit of $302,000 (sales x $140 per batch less costs - say $20 = $120 per batch = over 2500 batches per year). If costs are $30 per batch, you'll need to make 2,750 batches.

Simply speaking, assuming you need to turnover 2,500 fermentable 50 litre batches a year and each batch takes 2 weeks from go to wo, each week you would need to bottle 50 batches every week. 

Now, this doesn't sound too daunting as I'm guessing there is a lot of automation in the bottling / capping area, but are there that many customers out there for this sort of operation.

Good luck to you who are in this game, I hope you get the clients you need.


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## Finite (1/1/08)

> Looking for an excellent cash flow business with strong growth prospects and net income returns?


 :lol:


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## sah (1/1/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Well done - still can't figure out how to do the link thing properly.
> 
> The main reason I put up the advert was that the price to set one up appears .. well, high. The numbers put forward as potential profits, investor returns etc. - well I can't see how anyone can make a profit on their investment. Projected gross profit of $302,000 (sales x $140 per batch less costs - say $20 = $120 per batch = over 2500 batches per year). If costs are $30 per batch, you'll need to make 2,750 batches.
> 
> ...



By your calcs 7.5 batches per day FG, welcome to small business. Did you take into account the excise? Two of these brew on premises have opened in Wollongong recently. I know one has the capacity to do 6 simultaneous brews and offers incentives (discounts) to encourage groups to occupy the 6. At the moment they seem to be doing well. I've got a few mates who've used their service and have been happy with the results. They also offer canning for extra. Oh, there is no automation. I've sampled a couple of brews from both joints and they're good. Not as good as a well made non-extract brew. But all the same about what you'd expect from a well made extract. They do a full boil, add hops, protein flocculant, chill, temperature control fermentation, triple filter (no chance of conditioning), force carbonate.

The good thing about these small businesses is there is always a sucker that is willing to buy it from you. It's a hard life.

regards,
Scott


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## /// (1/1/08)

For the same $$'s there are a few of us that would sell you a much larger bit of kit and enable many thousands of litres of beer to be made a week. They are called proper breweries!

For what you get, these systems are damm expensive IMHO...

Scotty


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## MHB (1/1/08)

I had a look at the costing for one of the franchise operations, based on that and on what I know from running a small business, if you can keep the cost / brew below 50% I will be staggered.

Overheads Eat You.

Here for my shop in a regional city, just to put the key in the door, before I buy stock

Rent	$25,380.00
Phone and Power	$6,640.00
Wages for 1 part time staff $22,100.00
Insurance and other bits and pieces	2,000.00
(these are very real numbers, the rent on 500 m^2 in a capital city I dont know, just make sure there is lots of good parking or you will go broke)

Call it around $56,000 in principal overheads thats just over $1,000/ week.

There are lots of other cost to think about, accounting is going to cost (1-2 $K/Y), I spend 2% of gross on advertising, stationary, the banks dont miss you, 1.5-3% of all the credit cards and a hunk of every EFTPOS transaction (December 06 my bank made nearly $1,000 out of me), shopping bags (there free right?) packaging, waste disposal..

By the time I have payed all the bills I need to make ~$1,500 profit a week before I get to eat. 

If you factor that extra cost into the price of each brew - I can't see how anyone can get enough people through the doors to make it pay.

The other big turnoff was that all the business would be on Saturday and Sunday, you get to never have another weekend free, unless you put on more staff at higher rates.

Just taking the $1,500 / week as Fixed costs
At an average of $140/ brew (I'm a bit suspicious of that number)
Call it $1/ Litre to make the wort (thats being much more realistic) - cost $50, gross on a brew $90

$1500 / $90 = 16-17 brews / week - be practical call it 20 brews/ week to stand still.
Let's say you want to make $45,000 a year
$45,000 / $90 = 500 more brews or an extra 9-10 / week

So 30 brews a week (I think I would want to see more like 40 because there are always hidden costs and things you havent factored in like seasonal variation)

If you think you are going to have to commit less than 1 hour to each brew you kidding your self.
You are now working full time (40 Hours), before you do all the cleaning, paperwork and administrative jobs that do need doing.

Here comes the ball breaker, say you want to grow your new business -you need staff.
I will leave it to anyone interested to workout how to get staff worth having, who will work every weekend for less than $25 / hour (if you do work it out please let me know) remember staff cost you about twice their take home pay after you factor in all the extras.

If you are thinking of getting into one of these operations go and pay a really good accountant to take the figures to pieces for you. I think the numbers I have given are best case I would (did) cost the operation on 50% at $120 / brew, that makes it look less inviting - but is I think much more realistic.

I am going to say I agree with Ross 100% on this one.
I was not brave enough..

There is an old saying among home brew shop owners; I think it applies to this one to.

"You can make a small fortune out of home brew - you just have to start with a large one"

MHB

P.S.
Believe me if the bottling was highly automated they would say so in their blurb in really big letters - it's highly grunt labour based.

P.P.S.
Sorry for the PP sized rant  
Some of the figures I have seen bandied about are such complete B.S that I would hate to see anyone go in without their eyes wide open.

M


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## wessmith (1/1/08)

MHB said:


> I had a look at the costing for one of the franchise operations, based on that and on what I know from running a small business, if you can keep the cost / brew below 50% I will be staggered.
> 
> Overheads Eat You.
> 
> ...



You nailed in one Mark.

Wes


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/1/08)

MHB said:


> Believe me if the bottling was highly automated they would say so in their blurb in really big letters - it's highly grunt labour based.
> 
> 
> M




Ever priced a fully automated bottling machine...  

They make ALL the other brewing gear look cheap...


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## Fatgodzilla (1/1/08)

SAH said:


> By your calcs 7.5 batches per day FG, welcome to small business. Did you take into account the excise? Two of these brew on premises have opened in Wollongong recently. I know one has the capacity to do 6 simultaneous brews and offers incentives (discounts) to encourage groups to occupy the 6. At the moment they seem to be doing well. I've got a few mates who've used their service and have been happy with the results. They also offer canning for extra. Oh, there is no automation. I've sampled a couple of brews from both joints and they're good. Not as good as a well made non-extract brew. But all the same about what you'd expect from a well made extract. They do a full boil, add hops, protein flocculant, chill, temperature control fermentation, triple filter (no chance of conditioning), force carbonate.
> 
> The good thing about these small businesses is there is always a sucker that is willing to buy it from you. It's a hard life.
> 
> ...




I've had plenty of experience in a small business. Sadly it started as a large business.

I'll drop into one of these joints next time I'm in town to see the business. No automation on the bottling - crickey ! I wish them well, but can't see a sustainable market. Its repeat business that should drive this thing. I fear growth will plateau fairly quickly and unless you have strong repeat clients - :unsure: :unsure: Also two in a place the size of Wollongong - Russian roulette - who'll fail first ! 
Buyer Beware.


Edit : Upsizing am operation. Does this business have to be stand alone ? Is there any economy of scale savings for say a commercial brewery to offer a similiar service ? 


Edit 2 :


> Ever priced a fully automated bottling machine



Just assumed as they canned the product and force carbed beer, there was a bottling unit.


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## joecast (1/1/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> No automation on the bottling - crickey !



just on this, the local BOP makes a point that you bottle yourself. i suppose the idea of getting people interested is being involved in the process. not much you can do with an extract brew (weigh stuff here, drop stuff in the kettle there) so bottling is the most hands on part. honestly though, the set up they have is pretty easy to use and makes it go by pretty quick. plus you "sample" while you bottle, and as the customer, no clean up to worry about when done (guess thats another negative for the owner though  )
joe


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## domonsura (1/1/08)

MHB said:


> I had a look at the costing for one of the franchise operations, based on that and on what I know from running a small business, if you can keep the cost / brew below 50% I will be staggered.
> 
> Overheads Eat You.
> 
> ...



Yep. What you and Ross said  

They're a nice idea, but I reckon there's much more chance of losing all your money than making screeds of it.


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## v8r (1/1/08)

sounds run of the mill for a lot of these 'off the shlef' business'.. 
if you want to make a small fortune, start with a large one :/


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## chimera (1/1/08)

slightly OT..

One of my 'i can't drink that, where's the label' friends surprised me the other month when he started talking up one of the newly opened brew on premises businesses in SE Melb. Must have been a hot topic at work as he was genuinely trying to convince me that I should come along with him and make some cheap beer using all fresh ingredients.

Was somewhat taken back when I told him um, yes, I do know all about the place, actually went along to their opening day to see what it was about. Am rather familiar with extract brewing (decided to pass on the fresh ingredients opening), BUT the part he struggled with was when I told him he could make that same beer at home for 1/3 of the price, as i've done for years.. 

apparently it's not homebrew when you make it in a commercial premesis


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## glenos (2/1/08)

Sounds a lot like brew by you but I think it might not be, although I had heard they we closing, so I guess selling up = closing.

look closely at the pics, left if brew by you, right is the one under discussion









I agree re the figures above, if he is making $190k why the hell would you sell, stick in a manager and retire.

RE brew by you, I have been wondering why he hasn't gone down the road of making fresh wort kits, it would mean a change in direction to using grain and not extract but there is a market out there for them, the cost of shipping one down here is horrendous, maybe I should organise a pallet?

PS.
My wife got me some goo there for xmas, and another thing called an oztops, I haven't pointed out to here it is a year past its best before, or that I'm not really interested in it.


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## PJO (2/1/08)

glenos said:


> Sounds a lot like brew by you but I think it might not be, although I had heard they we closing, so I guess selling up = closing.
> 
> RE brew by you, I have been wondering why he hasn't gone down the road of making fresh wort kits, it would mean a change in direction to using grain and not extract but there is a market out there for them,


I think the reason they haven't made fresh wort kits is that it would mean more capital outlay for mashing gear.


glenos said:


> the cost of shipping one down here is horrendous, maybe I should organise a pallet?


 :icon_offtopic: 
Yeah, they cost plenty cause they're mostly water, better to ship dry ingredients (grain) and add your own water  

On that note, we might have to start organising pallets of grain to Tassie if BBY does close.


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## Fatgodzilla (2/1/08)

PJO said:


> On that note, we might have to start organising pallets of grain to Tassie if BBY does close.



Was involved a while back with the fodder to outback program to feed starving cattle / sheep.

Let's get Current Affair to organise a "Grains to Thirsty Tasmanians Appeal" - wheel John Farnham out to sing a song and go on his next farewell tour. 

Don't worry Tasmanians - even though you aren't Australians, we think of you as our brothers !!  


(from a NSWelshman who won't forget who you beat to steal our Sheffield Shield ! h34r: )


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## PJO (2/1/08)

:icon_offtopic: 


Fatgodzilla said:


> Let's get Current Affair to organise a "Grains to Thirsty Tasmanians Appeal" - wheel John Farnham out to sing a song and go on his next farewell tour.


As long as it *doesn't* involve John Farnham it sounds good to me.


Fatgodzilla said:


> Don't worry Tasmanians - even though you aren't Australians, we think of you as our brothers !!
> (from a NSWelshman who won't forget who you beat to steal our Sheffield Shield ! h34r: )


Well, occasionally we get the chance to show Australians how the game is played.


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## glenos (25/3/08)

brew by you's new location. Main Rd Moonah, in the yellow shop next up the road from Cooleys hotel, shop used to be Wignall's Smallgoods.

Its a pretty small shop, walking distance from work for me.


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