# Man arrested over alleged distillery operation at Perth house



## Doogiechap (24/2/15)

This entrepreneur didn't quite work through his legal obligations with his little backyard operation . 
Another news linky.


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## Maheel (24/2/15)

poor bastard if thats all he was using he would have been doing it around the clock just to fill those few bottles ...

"most of the house was being used as an active distillery"...
lol must have been living in a garden shed FFS if that's all the equipment he had....

leave the old codger alone to drink in peace...

“At the time of executing the warrant the distillery was active and a process was underway,”
can just see the cops standing around one of those fermenters... it's bubbling !!!!! WE GOT HIM !!!!!

# but if he was selling then he deserves to get a fine...

probably putting that dog food in the rum to give it some taste....


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## stux (24/2/15)

Must admit, if it wasn't for the still... its not that big of a homebrew operation...

4 fermenters...

I have two 60L batches on the go right now.

Someone was just telling me today about someone who runs a still flatout, and sells. Don't know how he hasn't been caught.

Lunacy.

Oh Look, he's got an original Cooper's Eurotainer 30L bucket!


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## siege (25/2/15)

Excuse my naivety for thinking the law would be fair and just, but... 

How is it that we can brew beer till our hearts are content, but he can't distill spirits?


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## mojonojo (25/2/15)

siege said:


> How is it that we can brew beer till our hearts are content, but he can't distill spirits?


Tax


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## Mr. No-Tip (25/2/15)

"Most of his house" sounds like a beatup. Those fermenters are empty. They're also filthy haha.

I feel sorry for the guy but if he was selling, this was always how it was going to end...


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## Dave70 (25/2/15)

Whatever happened to the good old days where for a small gratuity by way of a few bottles of 'bathtub gin', the coppers would give a nod and wink and say 'have a nice day sir'. 









Oh yeah..
ICAC n shit..


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## AndrewQLD (25/2/15)

No sympathy, if he was on selling to the public. If he was making for himself I feel sorry for him.
We had a couple of arrests up here, $10,000 fine per still on the premises and convictions, one guy was caught with 2 stills.


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## Ciderman (25/2/15)

I often wonder what the laws are. Thought they were illegal just to own but they're always for sale on gumtree.


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## sp0rk (25/2/15)

It's a sort of blind eye thing most of the time
If you're making enough to get yourself a little jolly on a friday night, the po-po will turn a blind eye most of the time
As soon as you're making quantities big enough to sell, or are selling, that's when you're really asking for some attention
Some bright spark near me decided to start selling to kids a couple of years ago, everyone who knew I brewed beer asked if it was me, the amount of times I had to explain I only brewed beer at the time got very annoying
It's really ruining it for the guys who want to be able to make good craft spirits (essences = poo) like our brothers over in NZ do


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## DJ_L3ThAL (25/2/15)

Probably like the "tobacco bongs" still available in shops... or the Mad Dog Brewing Co.... 

Loopholes.


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## sp0rk (25/2/15)

There's a bit of a movement right now to try and introduce a similar system to NZ's legal home distilling
Here's hoping it works


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/2/15)

Its a bit like marriageahwarna. Get caught with a joint and its no big deal. Get caught with a house full and your looking at serious time


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## Bribie G (25/2/15)

Should have used gladwrap, the blooping gave him away.


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## QldKev (25/2/15)

AndrewQLD said:


> No sympathy, if he was on selling to the public. If he was making for himself I feel sorry for him.
> We had a couple of arrests up here, $10,000 fine per still on the premises and convictions, one guy was caught with 2 stills.


Do you know if they were selling to the public? If they were not then ouch, otherwise they deserved it.


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## QldKev (25/2/15)

Don't know how correct the news article is, but _The man is expected to be prosecuted for the "sale and supply of liquor and its manufacture"._ If it's true then it looks like he was selling it.


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## Airgead (25/2/15)

Given the number of bottles in that pic, for the sake of his liver, I really hope he wasn't drinking it all himself.


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## Jazzman (25/2/15)

So a still isn't legal??? I'm sure I've seen them in the homebrew shop, but I'm only buying beer stuff.


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## spog (25/2/15)

Bloody small house.


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## tavas (25/2/15)

Bribie G said:


> Should have used gladwrap, the blooping gave him away.


Cue the ubiquitous kitten jokes


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## elcarter (25/2/15)

Looked into the legalities of this a while back and far to much of it was hear say / conflicting laws. What I believe is the "rough" guide lines are / were;

You can own a still for the purpose of perfume manufacture <5L capacity. 

The moment you refine a wash for ethanol production you break the law. Regardless for home consumption or not.

The big issue is if you fail to remove the methanol + (other byproducts to a certain level Head + Tails) though incorrect processes you can kill people. Or have a real bad hospital hangover.

Huge amount of other laws that pertain to this.

Were probably on the edge of getting a mod mad so I recommend jumping on another site and check it out if your still curios.

Personally I see this as illegal as wiring up your own shed / brew gear. The laws there to protect people because someone screwed it up. That + tax


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## Jazzman (25/2/15)

Good info here

http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=270


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## Bribie G (25/2/15)

If it wasn't for home distilling most LHBS would not be in business.


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## superstock (25/2/15)

Love the list of what he was making. How did the police arrive at this, read the original labels on the bottles?


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## Red Baron (25/2/15)

Think of all his customers that have to go back to paying retail for Jagermeister- oh the humanity......
Although after seeing the pictures of his filthy operation, maybe they won't mind so much!

Cheers,
RB


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## lobedogg (25/2/15)

Some seriously skanky fermenters there. :icon_vomit: 

Guess all the booze kills the nasties but still.....

(pardon the pun)


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## panzerd18 (25/2/15)

Essential oils production


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## Feldon (25/2/15)

Thinking ahead of the story I expect this to go to TV pretty quickly. Eg A Current Affair or one of the breakfast TV shows will crash an LHBS somewhere and pester the owner about why he's selling gear to make spirits.


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## spog (25/2/15)

Feldon said:


> Thinking ahead of the story I expect this to go to TV pretty quickly. Eg A Current Affair or one of the breakfast TV shows will crash an LHBS somewhere and pester the owner about why he's selling gear to make spirits.


Would'nt surprise me at all,can't wait actually , be interesting to hear their claims and how much research is put into it.
Could be very amusing TV.


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## Feldon (25/2/15)

Home distilling is a real or potential threat to Big Liquor sales (eg, Dans, BWS, etc). And Big Liquor are big sponsors of commercial TV.

So I expect right now the marketing bods in these companies are putting the call in to the TV networks pushing them to go hard on this story. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Media coverage could invoke the horrors of alcohol-fuelled violence (esp domestic violence), underage drinking, alcoholism, fire risks, health risks from methanol, and the like. Plenty of talking heads from the chattering classes available to speak on these topics.

I would also expect TV coverage to blur the line between spirit making and beer making to scare off newbies to our hobby. Big Liquor includes the big breweries, and Chan 7 in particular has its AFL coverage sponsored by CUB.


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## Dave70 (25/2/15)

Feldon said:


> Home distilling is a real or potential threat to Big Liquor sales (eg, Dans, BWS, etc). And Big Liquor are big sponsors of commercial TV.


You _really _think so? 
I dunno. I'd be interested to see the numbers in regard to homebrewing in that instance. I imagine it would be so minuscule as not to warrant a second glance by the fat cats.
DIY wherever possible may be in my nature, but when I choose to drink a spirit, I'll gladly pay for a quality product thats been barrel aged or quadruple charcoal filterer and basically had all the heavy lifting and waiting done.
I cant see watered down neutral spirit with some Jack Daniels essence thrown in driving down the share price of Woolworths ant time soon.

Apologies to any home distillers for my narrow minded dismissal of you craft. I'm sure your hooch is awesome.


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## Major Arcana (25/2/15)

Yeah I heard a little more on this, apparently the whole home was converted and dedicated to distilling, he was selling the spirits to teens and whatnot around the area. The police caught on that something was amiss because of the escalated rate of unsociable behaviour in the suburb, and Koondoola is a effin dirtbag suburb in my opinion. Glad he got caught!


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## Autopilot80 (25/2/15)

Major Arcana said:


> Yeah I heard a little more on this, apparently the whole home was converted and dedicated to distilling, he was selling the spirits to teens and whatnot around the area. The police caught on that something was amiss because of the escalated rate of unsociable behaviour in the suburb, and Koondoola is a effin dirtbag suburb in my opinion. Glad he got caught!


I thought he got busted in Camillo not Koondoola.


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## fletcher (25/2/15)

Feldon said:


> Thinking ahead of the story I expect this to go to TV pretty quickly. Eg A Current Affair or one of the breakfast TV shows will crash an LHBS somewhere and pester the owner about why he's selling gear to make spirits.


hard hitting REAL news. of course they will. some redneck bogan crying about how her junkie husband had a brain-illness from drinking and making his own 90 proof hooch (with both of them speaking in horrible bogan-aussie-english), and wanting revenge from the LHBS owner because it was his/her fault.


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## spog (25/2/15)

fletcher said:


> hard hitting REAL news. of course they will. some redneck bogan crying about how her junkie husband had a brain-illness from drinking and making his own 90 proof hooch (with both of them speaking in horrible bogan-aussie-english), and wanting revenge from the LHBS owner because it was his/her fault.


Yeah,their all cunzz an that's all I'm sayin coz if we didn't buy it an they didn't give it we'd all still be good y'now what I mean don'tcha,yep their all cunzz y,know.


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## Cocko (25/2/15)

And to think I cooked up some meth today... Will sell it legit though, so no reporting,

I must pay more attention to the media so I know what is important.

xo.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (26/2/15)

Cocko said:


> And to think I cooked up some meth today... Will sell it legit though, so no reporting,
> 
> I must pay more attention to the media so I know what is important.
> 
> xo.


Is it blue?


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## panzerd18 (26/2/15)

The main threat is people using stills to produce their own fuel and bypass the massive amount of tax we are paying at the bowsers.


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## Major Arcana (26/2/15)

Autopilot80 said:


> I thought he got busted in Camillo not Koondoola.


Yep that what it said on the article but I heard Koondoola on the radio a few times???


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## Cocko (26/2/15)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Is it blue?


You know I got mad skills yo!


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## manticle (26/2/15)

^Bitch


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## yankinoz (26/2/15)

Here's the ATO link. It's specific on the sort of still you can own, but vague on the requirements for doing it legally.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Excise-and-excise-equivalent-goods/Distillation-equipment/

Most LHBS's have plenty of products for home distillation, displayed openly: "bourbon" and other flavourings, stills, filter carbon for processing the base spirit (I use it to filter chlorine and organic matter out of brew water). So either a lot of their customers have gone through the hoops with the ATO, or they stay small and off the radar.


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## panzerd18 (26/2/15)

panzerd18 said:


> > If you're not a licensed excise manufacturer you must have permission to buy, import, manufacture, dispose of, possess, own or sell a still unless it:
> >
> > only has a capacity of five litres or less, and
> > will not be used to distil alcohol.


So you can own a still if it has a capacity of five litres or less and is not used to distil alcohol.

Again, when you own a stil, it is only for the production of *essential oils* and nothing else.


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## WarmerBeer (26/2/15)

Cocko said:


> You know I got mad skills yo!








I just knew Full Pint was just a front


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## VP Brewing (26/2/15)

Full Pipe


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## TheWiggman (26/2/15)

This argument again!
You can apply for a permit to distill alcohol for home consumption. This does however require a few things (like an ABN). If you declare the quantities you are distilling and pay the tax, no dramas. Works out at about $17 for the equivalent of a 700ml at 40% by memory. 
When I drink spirits, and beer now, I drink to enjoy it. I haven't yet had a home brewed spirit I'd pay for.
It's no wonder this country doesn't have many big or craft distillers, how would you ever learn to start up? I'd imagine most/all craft brewers in Aus would have started at home and over the course of a few years, sharpened up and decided to take the leap. Who'd want to learn and pay a shitload of tax?


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/15)

There are a few more issues related to distilling that dont affect brewing.

I read an interesting piece on setting up a distillery by Stephen Dobson, owner of Eastview Estate at Kentucky on the NSW Northern Tablelands. The main issue with the ATO letting you set one up is your expertise in distilling. You cant just walk up and get a licence like you can with a brewery. The reasoning behind this is that if you dont know what you are doing then you could potentially produce contaminated spirits that can be poisonous. You have to be able to convince them that you know how to run a still properly..etc..etc..

In a lot of ways this is a good thing as it tends to stop any Johny come lately seting up a cheap still and potentially selling spirits that are capable of putting you in hospital for all the wrong reasons


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## TheWiggman (26/2/15)

I agree Stu. It's a wonder they haven't cracked down on the no-chillers due to the ever present risk of botulism.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/15)

Not to mention those airlock users


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## DJ_L3ThAL (26/2/15)

RSPCA have never come after anyone for the kittens either...


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/15)

RSPCA are abviously corrupt DJ...easly paid in beers


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## Dave70 (27/2/15)

TheWiggman said:


> This argument again!
> You can apply for a permit to distill alcohol for home consumption. This does however require a few things (like an ABN). If you declare the quantities you are distilling and pay the tax, no dramas. Works out at about $17 for the equivalent of a 700ml at 40% by memory.
> When I drink spirits, and beer now, I drink to enjoy it. I haven't yet had a home brewed spirit I'd pay for.
> It's no wonder this country doesn't have many big or craft distillers, how would you ever learn to start up? I'd imagine most/all craft brewers in Aus would have started at home and over the course of a few years, sharpened up and decided to take the leap. Who'd want to learn and pay a shitload of tax?


So whats the deal if one wished to produce some crappy E10 style home cooked juice additive (personal use only) to power yard equipment, top alcohol doorslamer or use for window cleaner? 
We're only talking in the order of 14 deg between the two - methanol - ethanol.
Cos I know where I an get my hands on bulk, cheap corn and I reckon I could easily modify my coil chiller into a condenser. 
We go through about 3L of metho a year easy so I can obviously save huge $$$$ making my own.


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## sp0rk (27/2/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> There are a few more issues related to distilling that dont affect brewing.
> 
> I read an interesting piece on setting up a distillery by Stephen Dobson, owner of Eastview Estate at Kentucky on the NSW Northern Tablelands. The main issue with the ATO letting you set one up is your expertise in distilling. You cant just walk up and get a licence like you can with a brewery. The reasoning behind this is that if you dont know what you are doing then you could potentially produce contaminated spirits that can be poisonous. You have to be able to convince them that you know how to run a still properly..etc..etc..
> 
> In a lot of ways this is a good thing as it tends to stop any Johny come lately seting up a cheap still and potentially selling spirits that are capable of putting you in hospital for all the wrong reasons


Dobson's = amazing
If anyone's ever over that way, go do a tasting
His beers are ok, but his spirits are top notch


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/2/15)

Dave70 said:


> We go through about 3L of metho a year easy so I can obviously save huge $$$$ making my own.


There are therapy groups that can help you with that issue


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## TheWiggman (27/2/15)

Dave70 said:


> So whats the deal if one wished to produce some crappy E10 style home cooked juice additive (personal use only) to power yard equipment, top alcohol doorslamer or use for window cleaner?
> We're only talking in the order of 14 deg between the two - methanol - ethanol.
> Cos I know where I an get my hands on bulk, cheap corn and I reckon I could easily modify my coil chiller into a condenser.
> We go through about 3L of metho a year easy so I can obviously save huge $$$$ making my own.


Start by filling out this application from your friendly ATO. THOUGH... the site states "Alcohol includes spirits, ethyl alcohol and ethanol. It does not include methanol, propenol, isopropenol and butanol" (i.e. you don't have to pay an excise on the latter). You still have to apply for metho distillation because it requires an s-word. Can't see it being approved though for your typical Dave70 because I think they would expect you to manufacture it and wouldn' grant a permit for home quantities. Though 3l a year, that's approaching commercial quantities.

I think their response would be "Dear Dave70. Nice try. Love, ATO"


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/2/15)

But when Dave builds that Top Alchohol Doorslammer he is going to need a regular supply if high quality Alcohol, so he should be right to go with the application


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## TheWiggman (27/2/15)

That's ethanol though isn't it? In that case you'll have to pay a fuel tax excise. Always snookered.


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## Dave70 (27/2/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> There are therapy groups that can help you with that issue


Those groups are weird. I was in that one with the 12 something or others once. Before I knew it, I had this bloke ringing me up at all hours telling me 'Dave, I need a drink and cant stop myself' So I'd be like, mate YOLO, knock yourself out!
The man running the group said I wasn't really 'getting it' and maby I should leave. _Pffft..._whatever.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/2/15)

Yeah, they sure do lack a sense of humor. As I am not really a meetings kind of person, I prefer to just be a common drunk


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## Dave70 (27/2/15)

TheWiggman said:


> That's ethanol though isn't it? In that case you'll have to pay a fuel tax excise. Always snookered.


Nope, methanol.
I have a similar drum from when I was playing around with making bio diesel. Also popular at the local go kart track when mixed with castor oil.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/2/15)

and R/C model planes. But i must say. that castor oil really gives you the runs, so better of drinking it with the castor oil


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## Dave70 (27/2/15)

TheWiggman said:


> I think their response would be "Dear Dave70. Nice try. Love, ATO"


They're all about the love at the ATO. Except that one time about six years ago when they spent four days auditing our business. This was back in the day before we had a proper book keeper, so imagine the inside of a hoarders residence and you'll get the picture. 
In the wash up, they owed _us.. _
Ba ha ha..

That is a actually a true story.


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## Bribie G (28/2/15)

During prohibition in the USA, vineyards sold wine kits with strict instructions not to ferment them.


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## stux (1/3/15)

That warning label is gold


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