# nutrient



## wombil (14/3/13)

Hey Guys, I am going o do a six minute scrumpy using aldi juice and s-04.
The recipe calls for yeast nutrient and I have read here where one can use old kit yeast for this.
I don't have any old kit yeast but have some bread yeast.Would this serve the same purpose and how do I introduce it to the mixture?I see it on sale at CB but a long way to go if I have a substitute here.
Thanks Guys.


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## JDW81 (14/3/13)

Yep, can use bread yeast, just make sure you boil it first to kill it off. I've done this in cider a few times and it works well. I just treat the yeast the same as I would nutrient.


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## Florian (14/3/13)

Bread yeast should be no worse than kit yeast. Boil it up in a small amount of water to *kill the yeast*, then add a small amount to your scrumpy as nutrient.

Never tried this myself but that's how I would do it.


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## wombil (14/3/13)

ThankyouJDW81 and Florian


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## Airgead (14/3/13)

There are two sorts of nutrient. One is a nitrogen source (essentially a fertilizer) which is usually Diamonium Phosphate (DAP) or similar. the other is a source of lipids, proteins and trace elements. This is often supplied by killed yeast.

Most nutrients you buy are either all part 1 (straight DAP) or a mixture of the two. The craftbrewer one is a mixture from memory.

Boiling up yeast will give you part 2. it won't give you part 1.

You can buy straight DAP at any halfway decent LHBS so its worth getting some if you have time. A few g of killed yeast and a teaspoon of DAP and you should be right. If you can't get hold of it, just adding the killed yeast will be better than nothing.

Cheers
Dave


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## Bribie G (14/3/13)

I used to use DAP in my alcoholic ginger beer and it worked well, I used some CraftBrewer nutrient in the current batch because that's what I had on hand.

Edit: went to Aldi this morning for next lot of juice and note that the apple / blackcurrant is also a dollar a litre so I'll put 4L of that in my next batch and see how that turns out. I'd reckon 100% might turn out a bit weird but who knows.

I'm wondering if I backsweeten _that _with orange juice I'd end up with a type of Sangria ??

Might be a new weapon in my chick-magnet arsenal.


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## Malted (14/3/13)

Bribey Taree G, looks like you are a braver man than me if that is the target audience for your leg opener.


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## Bizier (14/3/13)

Ha. I feel sorry for you if they are drinking what you are buying. You gettin' straight up played like a suckah.


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## Hallze (14/3/13)

Airgead said:


> There are two sorts of nutrient. One is a nitrogen source (essentially a fertilizer) which is usually Diamonium Phosphate (DAP) or similar. the other is a source of lipids, proteins and trace elements. This is often supplied by killed yeast.
> 
> Most nutrients you buy are either all part 1 (straight DAP) or a mixture of the two. The craftbrewer one is a mixture from memory.
> 
> ...


Does anyone know if this DAP fertilizer is what you buy to spread on the farm paddocks??

Cheers


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## JDW81 (14/3/13)

Hallze said:


> Does anyone know if this DAP fertilizer is what you buy to spread on the farm paddocks??
> 
> Cheers


I doubt it, but give it a go by all means. 

The DAP simply refers to the fact that there are two ammonia molecules (the source of nitrogen) attached to a phosphate (which AFAIK is also used by yeast).


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## Hallze (14/3/13)

OK, thanks. I might chuck on a 4lt test batch with a bit of DAP fertilizer and see how it goes. I've got a 40kg back of the stuff for spreading on the lawn. 

Cheers


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## slash22000 (14/3/13)

Wait. You want to use lawn fertilzer in a beer? I'm not a scientist but that seems like a bad idea to me.


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## Hallze (14/3/13)

No. Not in beer. Cider.

Seriously, I was asking if DAP fertilizer is the same as DAP sold in home brew stores. I'm not sure what the difference is so I was hoping someone could tell me.


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## JDW81 (14/3/13)

Hallze said:


> No. Not in beer. Cider.
> 
> Seriously, I was asking if DAP fertilizer is the same as DAP sold in home brew stores. I'm not sure what the difference is so I was hoping someone could tell me.


Ok so just because yeast nutrient contains DAP it doesn't make it the same as what goes on the lawn. I had my tongue in cheek when I suggested you should give it a go. 

I can safely say that you should NOT put the lawn fertiliser in your cider (or beer for that matter). I'm certain that your lawn fertiliser is not food grade, and probably contains a stack of other stuff you'd rather not be ingesting, irrespective of how little you may use.

Stick to proper yeast nutrient.

JD


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## treefiddy (14/3/13)

Actually it is the same stuff.

But that doesn't mean that you should put in in something you will directly ingest.


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## slash22000 (14/3/13)

Even if it was the same stuff, I seriously doubt lawn fertilizer is pure, let alone safe to consume. Legit yeast nutrient costs cents per batch. Just splash out.


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## Airgead (15/3/13)

Yeah. Chemically its the same stuff but the way its produced is different to food grade. They let far fewer dead rats and stuff fall into the food grade stuff. And they don't sell it in garden shops where it has been sitting next to a big pallet of cow shit.

Little things like that.

My little bag of DAP cost me about 5 bucks at the LHBS. That was 10 years ago and its still half full.

Cheers
Dave


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## JDW81 (15/3/13)

Airgead said:


> My little bag of DAP cost me about 5 bucks at the LHBS. That was 10 years ago and its still half full.


Likewise, my little tube of wyeast nutrient has lasted me ages as well. Grain and grape the wyeast nutrient for about $6, and wouldn't cost too much to get it mailed to gippsland.

Better to be safe than sorry.


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## Malted (15/3/13)

1 pound for under $8 plus shipping from US: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fermax-Yeast-Nutrient-1lb-/260306372136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3c9b780628

"Contains diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, autolyzed yeast"


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## slash22000 (15/3/13)

Malted said:


> 1 pound for under $8 plus shipping from US: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fermax-Yeast-Nutrient-1lb-/260306372136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3c9b780628
> 
> "Contains diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, autolyzed yeast"


Does anybody know what the Wyeast nutrient contains, compared to this?

Because this guy is saying 1 tsp per gallon, where the Wyeast nutrient recommends 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons? Bit of a difference.


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## JDW81 (15/3/13)

From the wyeast website:

A blend of vitamins, minerals, inorganic nitrogen, organic nitrogen, zinc, phosphates and other trace elements that will benefit yeast growth and complete fermentation. 

May have to do with concentrations of each of the components, but I'm just speculating. 

I use the wyeast stuff and always have nice healthy ferments.


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## Airgead (15/3/13)

Dosage is always a bit iffy as it depends on so many factory - nutrients in the wort/must/whatever already, yeast health, phase of the moon, etc.

A lot of wine yeast nutrients have specified dosage rates for wine (duh) which has a different nutrient load to apple juice or beer wort.

Chuck some in. If you get a stuck ferment, chuck more in next time.

Cheers
Dave


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## Greg.L (15/3/13)

Some nutrient brands are vitamins like thiamine, niacin, folic acid.


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## Luek (16/3/13)

Bribie, I've made several full batches of apple blackcurrant cider. It's worth a try. Most (but not all) blackcurrant flavour and even colour either gets eaten or gets lost when racking as it sorta just falls out of suspension.

Adding 2 bottles to a full batch wouldn't do much, flavour-wise.


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## punkin (17/3/13)

Many people use agricultural fertilisers, there is a very popular recipe out there (mum wash) that uses Miracle Grow.

This is for ferments that are going to be boiled and the steam collected though, not for those injested directly.

Stick to food grade products and you know you'll be safe. Use the fertilizer and you'll _probably_ be safe.


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