# Newby Budget Herms



## tom86 (6/10/16)

I have been brewing extract for a while and just attempted my first all grain with the 19L BIAB (DJ Nick method ish). My sparge technique was crap so my efficiency was pretty terrible ~50% so I just bumped it up with some extract..

Got me looking more into all grain though and I am trying to design a very cheap all grain system with stuff I already have.

My design is per the attached, I have semi broken 6L pressure cooker I want to use for the HLT a 60L esky for the mash tun and then the 19L pot for the kettle. I was planning on hacking the pressure cooker and wiring in a STC1000 with the element to control the temps. I also have some perforated SS to make a false bottom in the esky. 

Stuff I dont have yet, coppper tube, some valves and fittings, and wort pump (was thinking about $15 ebay one..)

Am I missing anything here?

Will 6L be enough sparge water for 19L brews

I am open to suggestions just want to keep it pretty cheap. 

Thanks in advance!


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## damoninja (6/10/16)

tom86 said:


> Will 6L be enough sparge water for 19L brews


Well, it won't be a 19L brew in a 19L pot, you'll be boiling like 17L and end up with like 15L. 

6L _may_ be enough to sparge a small one like this but usually like 2/3 of your volume will be from sparging. 
If you want to brew this small I'd say share the 19L pot and use that to heat sparge water use something (whatever else really) to collect first runnings. I notice there's no bv on your kettle too? 

60L esky is overkill for this setup though, I use a 56L esky for 50L batches and still don't come close to filling it up. 

HERMS for a small batch might seem like overkill too but I don't mind the idea since the mass is small. 

How are you planning to chill? Share the coil for that too? Wouldn't need to be real big for a small batch.


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## damoninja (6/10/16)

IMO - to get the most out of this setup I would either get another 19L or preferably a larger pot. 

(Assuming you're doing this on the stove)

If you get another 19L you can run 2 pots on the stove
If you get a bigger one say 40L, the stove may struggle unless you can place on multiple burners


I used to mash in a shitty old 25L esky in a bag with no valves or anything... boil a Big W 19L pot w/bv, a 10L pot and 7L pot all at once. Whatever pot didn't have water heating up was what I'd collect in. 


Didn't do it for long but glad I did, soon after I got the 40L pot and big burner and stuck with them for a good 2 yrs.


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## MHB (6/10/16)

damoninja is quite right, get a big enough pot or an urn and a bag to fit it and think about improving the system once you can make consistent quality beer at reasonably high efficiency.

Come along to the Hunter United Brewers club meeting on the 21st, or look up their Facebook account I think that's where most of the action is. 
Either I or any one of many others will be more than happy to have a bit of a chat to you about getting the basics right.
I'll be doing a talk on Water Chemistry and Hunter Water specifically at the November meeting 18/11 if that's of any interest. 
Mark


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## SBOB (6/10/16)

MHB said:


> Come along to the Hunter United Brewers club meeting on the 21st, or look up their Facebook account I think that's where most of the action is.


Is it just rock up and say hi? never been to one





MHB said:


> I'll be doing a talk on Water Chemistry and Hunter Water specifically at the November meeting 18/11 if that's of any interest.


That should be interesting


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## MHB (6/10/16)

SBOB said:


> Is it just rock up and say hi? never been to one


That is a good starting point.
Mark


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## sp0rk (6/10/16)

I really need to come to HUB some time...


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## Zorco (6/10/16)

You're a lucky bloke SBOB....


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## tom86 (6/10/16)

Thanks damoninja, I like the idea of the herms and would really like to be able to upgrade it to an automated system... just for fun.

Why do I need a ball valve on the kettle? Is this the "trub loss"? I just pour the whole lot into the fermenter... Is this bad?

Id like a larger pot but maybe I can just do some smaller batches for now in the 19l (15l boil) and just top up to 19l in the fermenter (lowish gravity beers)? I could upgrade the pot later and increase the grain mass for larger batches amd higher gravity and keep everything else the same?

Just double checked my esky and its actually 80L... so definately too big. But think ill be able to get a cheap esky (30ish litres?).

Yeah i was planning on using the coil to cool, emersion cooler. i have been doing ice bath so far.

Thanks Mark but im busy on the 21st, im keen for the november talk though I have been googling hunter water and trying to figure that side out so im very interested. Ill get on facebook and check it out. I dont actually know any all grain brewers all my friends do kits!


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## damoninja (6/10/16)

tom86 said:


> Why do I need a ball valve on the kettle? Is this the "trub loss"? I just pour the whole lot into the fermenter... Is this bad?


Yes and no, mainly you don't wanna be moving a large volume of boiling liquid... or any for that matter, good luck pouring in to a fermenter without making a huge mess  




tom86 said:


> Id like a larger pot but maybe I can just do some smaller batches for now in the 19l (15l boil) and just top up to 19l in the fermenter (lowish gravity beers)? I could upgrade the pot later and increase the grain mass for larger batches amd higher gravity and keep everything else the same?


The esky yes, you could push 100L batches out of that thing.

The HLT hmm pretty small...... I have a 40L I use as an HLT for my 50L batches, it falls short on sparge volume! I just make my mash thinner. Anyway even with the bigger kettle the little HLT will be what holds you back for larger batches. 

You can get away with 2 vessel systems though, so long as you have something to "store" hot liquor in while your kettle is in use. Your FpM (fucks per minute / swear rate) will be lower with a dedicated sufficient HLT. 



tom86 said:


> Just double checked my esky and its actually 80L... so definately too big. But think ill be able to get a cheap esky (30ish litres?).


**** me. What size/shape is it? Too big isn't always a problem, but TOOOOO big your whole mash is probably going to be your dead space......

If you can manage it, rather than blow coin on a smaller piece of kit see if you can manage a bigger kettle? Keep the eyes on gumtree, make it to the home brew meet ups, never know what'll come up... I have my old 40L I'm gonna look to sell but I'm in Adelaide. 



tom86 said:


> Yeah i was planning on using the coil to cool, emersion cooler. i have been doing ice bath so far.


Another thing that will lower your FpM


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## damoninja (6/10/16)

Another curve ball for ya sharing your HLT as a HERMS...

Your sparge water needs to be hotter than the mass you recirc through...

So you recirc though the coil in the HLT at your mash temp, but then your mash is over and need it hotter. Could wait, but waiting time on brew day is your enemy (IMO) don't rush but don't waste time


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## tom86 (19/10/16)

damoninja said:


> Well, it won't be a 19L brew in a 19L pot, you'll be boiling like 17L and end up with like 15L.
> 
> 6L _may_ be enough to sparge a small one like this but usually like 2/3 of your volume will be from sparging.
> If you want to brew this small I'd say share the 19L pot and use that to heat sparge water use something (whatever else really) to collect first runnings. I notice there's no bv on your kettle too?
> ...


So I did my second all grain brew yesterday. Found another esky slightly smaller but still way too big aprox 40L. Did single infusion temp went from 68c to 66c so I was pretty happy with that. drained to my fermenting vessel like you suggested and Did a batch sparge at ~76c. I probably should've stirred it through for longer but I pretty much drained it after a few minutes. Anyway I got ~68% efficiency so much better than my first attempt! 

So thanks for your help and suggestions. I am pretty happy with this method for now but I will improve on it by fitting some ball valves and maybe trying to get another smaller esky.. I will continue to build up items for a HERMS system though.


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## damoninja (20/10/16)

Sounds like it went well! What size did you end up going for? 

Important thing is do what works for you, there's a balance between time/money/fuckabout find what suits you right.


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## tom86 (20/10/16)

damoninja said:


> Sounds like it went well! What size did you end up going for?
> 
> Important thing is do what works for you, there's a balance between time/money/fuckabout find what suits you right.


Boiled ~16-17L. 15L went into the fermentor (og 1.055). I topped up to 19L and got an OG of 1.043. So its not going to be that strong but I am pretty happy with that for now. Might add some dextrose and bump it up a little... In future If I want to do stronger brews I will just to smaller batches with no water top up. I am happy with 15L for now. I can brew more often! I get bored of one type of beer pretty quickly anyway. (at the moment I have an extract stout, belgian wheat and just made this english pale ale/ESB)

My topic isn't really about Herms anymore.. Sorry.. Ill pick it back up in time.


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## Ollie_44 (16/11/16)

Gday Tom, sound like your on your way. Just a comment re a cheap viable kettle and HLT. I started out with 2x50L converted beer kegs. Release pressure, cut top off, add a
1/2" weldless tap and thermometer and your laughing.. could do for about 50 bucks a piece if you know someone with a busted keg they don't want (check out forum or gumtree).. best advice I got is don't scrimp on boil kettle size cause boil overs are a pain. To boil just sit kegs on some bricks and get yourself a 3 ring cast iron burner with high pressure reg. (very slow but it works)

Ps 40l esky/mash tun fine. My first one was about the same.. need every ounce of that space for high gravity stout especially if your getting low efficiency 


Cheers


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