# Rain Water Brewing



## wobbly

Those that use rain water in their brews can you answer a couple of questions for me

Do you/did you get the water analysed to check for % mineral content etc?

If you didn't have it analysed what assumptions did you make re the % content of various mineral etc?

Do you use 100% rain water and then add minerals to achieve you desired profile?

Do you use a % of rain water mixed with your normal tap water to dilute some/all of the minerals that may be too high in your tap water

Do you use rain water only for particular beer styles and if so what styles?

The Analysis I have from the Water Authority in Perthg for my area indicates water that is higher than most in Sodium and Chloride and low (nil) in Bicarbonate 

So I am starting to think about fiddleing with the water profile as I also have available rain water

Any comments would be appreciated

cheers

Wobbly


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## bignath

I've brewed with rainwater before. 

Turned a blind eye to any "potential" problems and just made beer. It turned out to be a cracker! I swear (and my brewing pals did too) that it left some kind of "pureness" flavour to it. Could have been placebo effect, who knows, but it was a bloody nice beer!

Haven't done it since due to selling our rainwater tank. I am thinking recently about installing another smaller tank closer to my brewery for the sole purpose of brew supply.

If i do it again, i may look into water chemistry some more, but at this stage the rainwater beer i did was lovely as it was, and if i change the chemistry, i may not replicate or even improve that particular beer.

Just make a batch and see what you think. You can always go from there for your additions once you know what to expect from untreated water.


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## Gar

We're on tank water, so it's all that I've ever used 



wobbly said:


> Do you/did you get the water analysed to check for % mineral content etc?


Nope, just hoped for the best.



wobbly said:


> Do you use 100% rain water and then add minerals to achieve you desired profile?


Haven't bothered getting that testicle so far, I do add a bit of pH 5.2 Stabilizer to most brews though



wobbly said:


> Do you use a % of rain water mixed with your normal tap water to dilute some/all of the minerals that may be too high in your tap water


Just good old sky water (plus frog crap no doubt)



wobbly said:


> Do you use rain water only for particular beer styles and if so what styles?


Nope, anything and everything, I've been happy with the results so far


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## TasChris

wobbly said:


> Those that use rain water in their brews can you answer a couple of questions for me
> 
> Do you/did you get the water analysed to check for % mineral content etc? No
> 
> If you didn't have it analysed what assumptions did you make re the % content of various mineral etc? Assume all minerals are zero
> 
> Do you use 100% rain water and then add minerals to achieve you desired profile? Yes
> 
> Do you use a % of rain water mixed with your normal tap water to dilute some/all of the minerals that may be too high in your tap water
> 
> Do you use rain water only for particular beer styles and if so what styles? Rain water plus minerals for all styles
> 
> The Analysis I have from the Water Authority in Perthg for my area indicates water that is higher than most in Sodium and Chloride and low (nil) in Bicarbonate
> 
> So I am starting to think about fiddleing with the water profile as I also have available rain water Found that my beers with rain water and no mineral additions were rather tasteless, dull and bland. Started adding salts and 5.2 ( probably over kill) and this improved my beer dramatically.
> 
> Any comments would be appreciated
> 
> cheers
> 
> Wobbly


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## CONNOR BREWARE

Been looking at this, we get some big rains and than nothing for a while so I thought this would be good thing.

So you guys have had no lag probs with yeast or anything similar? Are you adding yeast nutrient?

A bit OT but was thinking of running an IC into a rain water tank while whirlpooling. Then running the hot water from my plate chiller into the tank when plate chilling. If tank is big enough I was thinking the heat exchanged wouldn't be large enough to cause any bacterial growth but I'd hav to suck it and see I guess. Just pie in the sky stuff until I get the tank.


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## bignath

Duke of Paddy said:


> So you guys have had no lag probs with yeast or anything similar? Are you adding yeast nutrient?



No problems at all. Active fermentation signs no different than using tap/town water. No yeast nutrient. Never used it.


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## [email protected]

I only use/have rainwater.

You can assume if its caught on reasonably clean roofing/guttering and stored in a plastic tank that its pretty close to having no mineral content at all.
If stored in concrete tanks, over time they can leach some minerals into the water, i know from experience i have concrete and poly tanks.

If your tap water is high in salts i would say that using some rainwater with it, maybe half / half would be a good idea.

Rainwater on its own does not provide ideal conditions for mashing and fermentation. You at least need to get your calcium levels up.
Easiest way to do this is to add the relatively benign calcium chloride around 0.4 to 0.6 grams per liter of rain water.


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## tipsy

wobbly said:


> Those that use rain water in their brews can you answer a couple of questions for me
> 
> Do you/did you get the water analysed to check for % mineral content etc?


 Nope



wobbly said:


> If you didn't have it analysed what assumptions did you make re the % content of various mineral etc?


 I assumed there is no minerals just for the sake of it, even though I know it to be untrue.



wobbly said:


> Do you use 100% rain water and then add minerals to achieve you desired profile?


 Yes


I use the Beersmith tool to add minerals and it has greatly improved my dark beers


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## bignath

Beer4U said:


> Rainwater on its own does not provide ideal conditions for mashing and fermentation. You at least need to get your calcium levels up.
> Easiest way to do this is to add the relatively benign calcium chloride around 0.4 to 0.6 grams per liter of rain water.



Whilst this may be true from a technical viewpoint, at the end of the day, if you are happy with the taste of the beer, the efficiency you've got, strong fermentation etc....then there's no definite reason to change. 

Using minerals will no doubt change the many profiles of a beer compared to same recipe brewed without, but that doesn't mean that the result from untreated water can't be a positive/good result.

It's highly probable due to our own tastebuds, that the result we individually get from doing the same recipe with or without mineral additions could quite easily be better to us in the untreated version.
Technically better beer? Definitely not, but isn't it ultimately about whether we "like" it or not?


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## [email protected]

Big Nath said:


> Whilst this may be true from a technical viewpoint, at the end of the day, if you are happy with the taste of the beer, the efficiency you've got, strong fermentation etc....then there's no definite reason to change.
> 
> Using minerals will no doubt change the many profiles of a beer compared to same recipe brewed without, but that doesn't mean that the result from untreated water can't be a positive/good result.
> 
> It's highly probable due to our own tastebuds, that the result we individually get from doing the same recipe with or without mineral additions could quite easily be better to us in the untreated version.
> Technically better beer? Definitely not, but isn't it ultimately about whether we "like" it or not?



I agree on some points there.

The reason i went down the path of adjusting my water was because i was not completely happy with my results. Yeah the beer was still good, much better than cheap swill, but i could taste that it was not as polished as it could be.

Since adjusting my rain water i have much better clarity in terms of flavour and appearance, all aspects of the finished beer are cleaner and sharper, where as before they were dull and muddled. 
I also get better and more consistent efficiency which makes things easier calculating recipes.
Just like everything home brewing at the end of the day it ends with your own palate. I can taste and see the difference.
:icon_cheers:


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## warra48

I use rainwater for all my brews. I don't like the taste of our local tap water, so don't want to use it for my brewing. 
Where I live there's really no industry to give us any industrial pollution, so I assume it is a blank canvas.

BeerSmith2 calculates additions for me, but I don't follow them slavishly, just somewhere close.
I do use yeast nutrient and make sure I aerate properly when pitching my yeast.

Works fine for me.


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## Hippy

I use rainwater for pilseners as it is very soft. I add about 20-30% tap water as my tap water is fairly hard just to give a little mineral content. Tank is filling as we speak with this unseasonal rain.


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## Rowy

There's some places I wouldn't use rainwater, particularly highly industrialised areas. Gladstone CQ for example.


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## drsmurto

Do you/did you get the water analysed to check for % mineral content etc? Yes, if you don't analyse it you are making some pretty big assumptions.

If you didn't have it analysed what assumptions did you make re the % content of various mineral etc? See above.

Do you use 100% rain water and then add minerals to achieve you desired profile? Yes.

Do you use a % of rain water mixed with your normal tap water to dilute some/all of the minerals that may be too high in your tap water? No.

Do you use rain water only for particular beer styles and if so what styles? Yes. Bo pils.

Water was analysed (by me) showing my water has <0.1 ppm of any of the brewing related salts. A few ppm of zinc due to the roof. No overhanging trees and the water tastes good unfiltered.

If you choose not to get your water analysed I'd suggest starting at the lower levels of salt additions and working your way up. Add 50 ppm of Ca2+, adjust SO42- and Cl- based on the beer style (malty, hoppy, balanced between the 2)


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## manticle

All true.

Water modifications will not polish a turd and if your water does not have a stupidly high hardness profile, you can brew some lovely beers.

What water modification will do is help push particular profiles. Try a hoppy, mid colured beer with soft water, hard water and then some balanced calcium sulphate and calcium chloride (in the soft or filtered water or in both ahrd and soft) and see which one you prefer. Then adjust/don't adjust according to taste.

Same as cooking a chicken - a bit of salt goes a long way to making a great tasting chook, too much goes a long way to stuffing it up, add none and it will still taste like chicken.


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## yardy

Rowy said:


> There's some places I wouldn't use rainwater, particularly highly industrialised areas. Gladstone CQ for example.




I work (not reside) in Gladstone and I wouldn't walk in the rain...


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## big d

Gday Wobbly

Only brew with tank water as we dont have scheme water.Only additions to the water are some salt and calcium chloride in the mash.

Cheers
Big D


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## Wolfman

Digging up an old thread.

I have a mate who lives on a farm. Has a brand spanking machinary shed. Lined water tank.

Now from what I have read above, and some other sites, is that rain water has bugger all brewing related salts in it. I know this is a very big assumption.

My mate is very new to brewing. He's hanging in there but just want to give him a hand.

That's where you guys and gals come in!


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Rain water itself is effectively distilled water (after all it has evaporated from some water source and precipitated out of the vapour state, that's the definition of distillation).

The water in the tank, however, has passed over a collection surface, though a downpipe system and into the tank where it remains for a period which may be many months.

It is very hard to predict the quality of water that results: as an example, I recently spent a couple of weeks in Qld looking after my elderly mother who has a roof collection tank. The water is unuseable without boiling due to _Giardia_ from the possum shit: when boiled it deposits a lot of iron, presumably due to corrosion of the roof surface.


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## Ducatiboy stu

wobbly said:


> Those that use rain water in their brews can you answer a couple of questions for me
> 
> Do you/did you get the water analysed to check for % mineral content etc?  Nope. Didnt care
> 
> If you didn't have it analysed what assumptions did you make re the % content of various mineral etc? I figured it had very little as it was a galv iron roof and plastic 20,000L tank Agaiin, I didnt care
> 
> Do you use 100% rain water and then add minerals to achieve you desired profile? Did it for a nice chewy English Bitter ( basically burtonised water profile ), but as a rule...No
> 
> Do you use a % of rain water mixed with your normal tap water to dilute some/all of the minerals that may be too high in your tap water. Tap water is not always high in minerals, so pointless
> 
> Do you use rain water only for particular beer styles and if so what styles? Everything
> 
> The Analysis I have from the Water Authority in Perthg for my area indicates water that is higher than most in Sodium and Chloride and low (nil) in Bicarbonate
> 
> So I am starting to think about fiddleing with the water profile as I also have available rain water
> 
> Any comments would be appreciated Dont get to caught up in water profile, As has been stated, sometimes a turd is a turd regardless of water profile
> 
> cheers
> 
> Wobbly


I love tank water.

As for adjusting the water profile...did it...not worth the stuffing around unless you want a really bold profile like Burton


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## Ducatiboy stu

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> It is very hard to predict the quality of water that results: as an example, I recently spent a couple of weeks in Qld looking after my elderly mother who has a roof collection tank. The water is unuseable without boiling due to _Giardia_ from the possum shit: even when boiled it deposits a lot of iron, presumably due to the rust on the roof.


This is oh so true.

Rusty roofs and gutters kill water profile.

My last place had brand new galv iron and gutter, so the water was really good.

Also had a big fat 2ft x 4" 4 micron filter at the pump


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## good4whatAlesU

Rain near the coast can pick up a fair few salts, I used to collect data for a research project looking at salts along a gradient moving inland from the coast. Basically the further inland the less salt in the rain water. Comparatively speaking. Oils ain't oils and rainwater ain't rainwater.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Interesting as I am near the coast. but the rain always comes from the opposite direction


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## good4whatAlesU

If you're in Grafton your rain will be coming from multiple directions. Aa the water falls it will be passing through the atmosphere and taking on some of the minerals as it goes.

Edit; I was just a data flunky/ sample collector at the time out in Deniliquin, but they used to send me the salt maps from time to time, I'll have to try and dig one out it was quite interesting. Prior to synthetic fertilisers, many plants (natives especially) partially relied on nutrients and minerals coming in via rainwater (not to mention from salts accumulating in the soil profile).


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## Ducatiboy stu

good4whatAlesU said:


> If you're in Grafton your rain will be coming from multiple directions.


Mostly it just falls in a downward direction


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

good4whatAlesU said:


> Rain near the coast can pick up a fair few salts, I used to collect data for a research project looking at salts along a gradient moving inland from the coast. Basically the further inland the less salt in the rain water. Comparatively speaking. Oils ain't oils and rainwater ain't rainwater.


True that.

For a while I did weekly water analyses on the town water in Bright, VIC, which is taken from the Ovens river and is thus mostly from the high country.The worst we saw was a TDS of around 28 ppm, roughly a third of a good day in Melbourne.


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## Wolfman

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I love tank water.
> 
> As for adjusting the water profile...did it...not worth the stuffing around unless you want a really bold profile like Burton


Thanks for quoting something from nearly 5 years ago. I see things haven't evolved on here.


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## Wolfman

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Rain water itself is effectively distilled water (after all it has evaporated from some water source and precipitated out of the vapour state, that's the definition of distillation).
> 
> The water in the tank, however, has passed over a collection surface, though a downpipe system and into the tank where it remains for a period which may be many months.
> 
> It is very hard to predict the quality of water that results: as an example, I recently spent a couple of weeks in Qld looking after my elderly mother who has a roof collection tank. The water is unuseable without boiling due to _Giardia_ from the possum shit: when boiled it deposits a lot of iron, presumably due to corrosion of the roof surface.


Yer mate his is a brand new shed. Not a tree or possum to be seen. However he has another house tank he's been using and I suspect some of the issue could be this. It's good enough to drink but you he other tank would b better. 



good4whatAlesU said:


> Rain near the coast can pick up a fair few salts, I used to collect data for a research project looking at salts along a gradient moving inland from the coast. Basically the further inland the less salt in the rain water. Comparatively speaking. Oils ain't oils and rainwater ain't rainwater.


Cheers mate. He's just south of Horsham so salt won't be an issue. 



good4whatAlesU said:


> If you're in Grafton your rain will be coming from multiple directions. Aa the water falls it will be passing through the atmosphere and taking on some of the minerals as it goes.
> 
> Edit; I was just a data flunky/ sample collector at the time out in Deniliquin, but they used to send me the salt maps from time to time, I'll have to try and dig one out it was quite interesting. Prior to synthetic fertilisers, many plants (natives especially) partially relied on nutrients and minerals coming in via rainwater (not to mention from salts accumulating in the soil profile).


Good valuable information. Also great to have a real expert share knowledge. 



Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> True that.
> 
> For a while I did weekly water analyses on the town water in Bright, VIC, which is taken from the Ovens river and is thus mostly from the high country.The worst we saw was a TDS of around 28 ppm, roughly a third of a good day in Melbourne.


TDS? I guessing he's that means not much in the way of variability?

Thanks lads. I'll measure his pH for him and basically he has a blank canvas. Using Beersmith and adjusting his salts to style should see some improvement for him. Just got to get him to leave it the fermentor a little longer .


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## malt junkie

TDS: Total disolved solids.



Google is thy friend.


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## Wolfman

malt junkie said:


> TDS: Total disolved solids.
> Google is thy friend.


So many smart people on here. 

TDS = Total dissolved solids would have been enough. The old google it is still in fashion I see. But thanks for the hot tip malt junkie.


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## good4whatAlesU

Horsham will get a bit of dust (farm topsoil laden with minerals) draped over it from time to time (dry summers especially). You see it on your car after a dust storm, a bit of that will wash in the tank from time to time. Although I think some tanks have a mechanism to reject the first minute or so flow off a roof?

Dust can move a long way, did you know that the snow mountains in New Zealand occasionally glow orange with dust depositing on them from Australian desert / denuded farmland?


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## Ducatiboy stu

Wolfman said:


> Thanks for quoting something from nearly 5 years ago. I see things haven't evolved on here.


Well the reason I said that was because I did try playing with additions with my rain water...and apart from way out there profiles like Burton I could not notice a difference in the beers

I often think brewers do things because they think its trendy..or they are hipsters..

I like the placebo effect


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

good4whatAlesU said:


> Dust can move a long way, did you know that the snow mountains in New Zealand occasionally glow orange with dust depositing on them from Australian desert / denuded farmland?


The famous "terra rossa" of Coonawarra is composed of dust from the red centre deposited on top of the limestone.








Melbourne 1983, image courtesy ABC.


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## Matplat

Wolfman said:


> So many smart people on here.


I think he was just offering you a friendly piece of advice, so that in future, you can find the answers you're looking for sooner....


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## hellbent

I'm a bit puzzled about people who worry about the water quality when using rainwater being contaminated by dust or rusty roofs, etc. and instead prefer to brew using water from the local supply.
Have you ever thought of how much rust and shit has built up in the water main to the property and the outlet pipes the water passes over before it goes into your kettle?
I renewed a lot of the water pipes around home recently and was horrified in what I saw, its a wonder water even got through them at all they were so clogged up with rust and crap.
Best Idea is just...make beer/drink beer/ be happy... filling your head with doubts about the water quality will have you searching for off tastes that probably aint even there .... Be honest after the first 3 or 4 schooners you wouldn't care if it was passed through a swaggies underpants, you'd still enjoy it !


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## Ducatiboy stu

As the say...if the water is good enough to drink, it is good enough to brew beer with

Sometimes people prefer to wag the dog


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## Ducatiboy stu

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> The famous "terra rossa" of Coonawarra is composed of dust from the red centre deposited on top of the limestone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Melbourne 1983, image courtesy ABC.


Grew up in the Riverina. Saw plenty of dust storms as a kid


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