# Danstar Windsor Wtf?



## MattC (4/11/10)

Hi guys, Ive just brewed a dry stout OG 1.045 and pitched a rehydrated pack of Danstar Windsor (first time ive used it) @ 18C, and rose the temp up to 21 C over 3 days as I have heard that its a bit hard to get this yeast to attenuate well.

Prot rest @ 50C, Sacc @ 65C, mash out @78C

SG has been at 1.019 for 3 days. It seems to have stopped. I pitched another rehydrated pack last night and still no change as yet. Think I might add about 200g of sugar in a low volume of water and see if it spark it up.

Thats only 58% AA????? Has anyone else had similar experiences with this yeast?? 

Cheers


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## geoffi (4/11/10)

This yeast is a notoriously poor attenuator.

For a dry stout I'd recommend Nottingham.


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## manticle (4/11/10)

Haven't used the yeast but if pitching another pack, try making an active starter with it first (even though it's dried).


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## MattC (4/11/10)

Geoffi said:


> This yeast is a notoriously poor attenuator.
> 
> For a dry stout I'd recommend Nottingham.



Yeah I know, ive been into liquid yeasts for the last few months but I just had these packets lying around.

Cheers


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## winkle (4/11/10)

Geoffi said:


> This yeast is a notoriously poor attenuator.
> 
> For a dry stout I'd recommend Nottingham.



What he said.
It can also crawl along very slowly toward the end, so you might get another point or two drop.

You might consider this a design feature if you use it in a mild :icon_cheers: .


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## geoffi (4/11/10)

A couple of remedial measures I've had success with:

Try giving the fermenter a daily swirl for a few days and see what happens.

Alternatively, get a sachet of Nottingham and make a large, active starter and pitch it. That might finish the job.


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## drsmurto (4/11/10)

winkle said:


> What he said.
> It can also crawl along very slowly toward the end, so you might get another point or two drop.
> 
> You might consider this a design feature if you use it in a mild :icon_cheers: .



Agree - Works a treat in a low ABV beer.

Last one was OG 1.036, FG 1.014 - 60% attenuation. :beerbang:


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## MattC (4/11/10)

Cheers boys, a few helpful hints there. Will see what happens with the sugar syrup first. I only have a couple of S-04 packs left, so if the sugar and swirl doesnt work, mite try an active S-04 starter.

Cheers


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## Howlingdog (4/11/10)

"Windsor demonstrates moderate attenuation which will leave a relatively high gravity (density)." I've never got better than 60% attenuation (nor expected better) as others have said great for milds and porters.

see Manufacturers website http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/windsor-ale-yeast

HD


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## Shed101 (4/11/10)

I got 57% the only time I used it.


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## Dazza88 (4/11/10)

It's a poor attenuator but the beer it makes is nice for a sweet choc stout. Got 1.018 with about 100g lactose (affects gravity?) in 15 L. 

If you tipped in with us-05 or etc you could drop gravity . . . .

Re-call your beer a sweet stout.


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## MattC (4/11/10)

HowlingDog said:


> "Windsor demonstrates moderate attenuation which will leave a relatively high gravity (density)."



I did read that, but I was thinking 65-70 low AA 70-75 moderate AA and 75+AA high, I wasnt expecting 58%.. for a dry stout!!

HHmmmmm perhaps I have just made a low Alc sweet stout?? :beerbang: 

Cheers


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## Shed101 (4/11/10)

MattC said:


> I did read that, but I was thinking 65-70 low AA 70-75 moderate AA and 75+AA high, I wasnt expecting 58%.. for a dry stout!!
> 
> HHmmmmm perhaps I have just made a low Alc sweet stout?? :beerbang:
> 
> Cheers



It doesn't matter what it's called, the success is in the drinking :icon_cheers: :icon_drunk:


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## bradsbrew (4/11/10)

I stuffed up the mash temp of a recent 60L batch of AIPA and ended up mashing at 61 so to avoid a very dry bitter beer I thought I would try windsor yeast due to its poor attenuation. I am quite happy with the result, the malt character is way better and has balanced out nicely with the hops and bitterness than the cube I used us05 with. The third cube is currently cold crashing, after fermenting on the windsor cake, ready to be kegged for the Qld swap for evaluation.

Cheers


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

ok dragging up a old thread. Would of been good if I read it first, But any way I put down a coopers pale ale clone and it was recommended to use this yeast.

here is the recipe

42lts
9.6Kg ale malt 
POR 55g @ 60min
windsor yeast 
66c mash

Well My targets was good it was 1048 well one was 1047 as split into 2 fermenters and had to top it up a tad. Any way pitched yeast on 12th and temps was 19c. I checked gravity on the 17th and they where 1020. I ramped the temp upto 21c .went away for 10 days and got back today and its on 1018.  this yeast is crap well for what I want to use it for. Recipe was ment to come down to 1012 and be 4.7%, but now its at 3.9 and I would like it a bit higher then that.

What yeast should I pitch?? as I doubt this will drop no matter what I try. I am thinking notto as there is no hop flavour so it wont matter about that. I dont want to repitch but I dont want 40lts of mid strength lol

Edit: Oh yeah I put it into 2 fermenters as said and both are on 1018 so looks like its finished at that. And yes I did pitch one pack per fermenter just encase you think I am stupid


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (28/9/11)

Probably notto. It might finish lower than you would like (I've had it as low as 1.002 and it consistently pokes its head well under 1.010).

I use windsor for mids/milds/low abv dark ales and anything else I want to finish high. What it appears as though you've tried to achieve, I wouldn't have ventured out with Windsor.

Not that I've made them, but all those who do make CPA clones generally all recommend coopers yeast - as the yeast profile is one aspect of the flavour of CPA. I daresay Notto will be cleaner than a CPA ought to be.

Goomba


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

yeah I thought it was strange yet I never used it so thought it might be close to coopers. Any way will know next time


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## kymba (28/9/11)

make up a starter out of 2 or more coopers stubbies and pitch that. you should get to .006 no worries

i tried andrew's recipe and used us-05 as the starter didn't work, and it was boring. still better than a megaswill though. you need that coopers yeast to liven up the party!


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## Ross (28/9/11)

kelbygreen said:


> ok dragging up a old thread. Would of been good if I read it first, But any way I put down a coopers pale ale clone and it was recommended to use this yeast.
> 
> here is the recipe
> 
> ...




Who on earth recommended Windsor for a coopers clone? - Sorry, but totally daft.
If it's tasting ok leave it, otherwise add some US-05 or Nottingham to get you some extra points, I'd recommend warming to low twentys as well.

cheers Ross


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

it was a recipe generated by LHBS software but some have a few yeasts selected but that had windsor so didnt think anything of it, I think it was out of BYO. Well I went back into it and it recommends windsor or us05 I guess coz I never used windsor I thought Id give it a go as been turned off us05 lately. 

As I said I never used it so wasnt sure. I was going to make a starter with coopers bottles but time was the factor and had to get it down that weekend. It tastes alright not to malty but just to heavy. There is still heaps of yeast in suspention the samples are almost white. Not sure if that will make it read higher I guess it would but after 17 days it would be clearing up but again never used it so it musnt drop very well.


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## super_simian (28/9/11)

Pretty poor choice by whoever recommended it - Windsor is best for beers you don't want high attenuation in, although it does have a lovely flavour. You could try to preserve that flavour by using US05, which is pretty neutral, but I have no idea what occurs to ester profiles when two yeasts are used. If anyone does have experience, I would love to hear it, because I want to do a strong/old ale, but the UK style yeast a want for its' esters has an upper attenuation limit of 72% - and I want 80-ish% to avoid overwhelming sweetness. So I was thinking of using the initial yeast for 3-4 days to develop esters, then following with US05... Anyone?


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## mje1980 (28/9/11)

I've never had much luck the few times i tried windsor. Liquid UK yeast ( i've tried at least 12 or so ) have all been miles ahead of Windsor.


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

yeah I was worried about mixing yeast. But rather a beer I will drink then one I wont lol. I mean if it was just one keg I wouldnt mind but 2 kegs of it when I only have 2 kegs isnt good


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## MarkBastard (28/9/11)

super_simian said:


> Pretty poor choice by whoever recommended it - Windsor is best for beers you don't want high attenuation in, although it does have a lovely flavour. You could try to preserve that flavour by using US05, which is pretty neutral, but I have no idea what occurs to ester profiles when two yeasts are used. If anyone does have experience, I would love to hear it, because I want to do a strong/old ale, but the UK style yeast a want for its' esters has an upper attenuation limit of 72% - and I want 80-ish% to avoid overwhelming sweetness. So I was thinking of using the initial yeast for 3-4 days to develop esters, then following with US05... Anyone?



Craftbrewer sell a windsor/US05 combo yeast. I just used it on a home brewed ESB and a FWK Porter. The ESB achieved about 70% attenuation (1.048 down to 1.014 from memory). The Porter on the other hand has only gone from 1.058 to 1.020, which from memory is 64% attenuation.

Can't comment much on the flavour profile etc yet.

Needless to say, even with US05 helping out it's still pretty low attenuation.


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

yeah maybe i was meant to pitch both??? lol any way lessen learnt


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## going down a hill (28/9/11)

I have used Windsor twice, both times in porters. Both never got under 1.018 so I think she's done. I'd say a Coopers starter would be the go and you have no massive rush seeing the Windsor has eaten all it can. Hope it turns out ok.


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## Bribie G (28/9/11)

I don't know if it's a pH thing or whatever but the only time I used Windsor, in conjuction with US-05 in the CB blend, it took a mild two months - yes two months to clear in the bottle. I chucked the other half of the repack. In any case apart from US-05 I don't use dry ale yeasts.


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## HoppingMad (28/9/11)

Agree with Ross. Recommending Windsor for a coopers clone is quite daft. Using US-05 will result in an aussie pale with little character, but clean. Nothing like a Coopers Pale/Sparkling.

For a clone recipe, next time use Andrew QLD's recipe off RecipeDB or do a search for 'Mortz' Coopers Clone. Both are great examples provided you use the coopers yeast. If not sure about reculturing coopers Ross' suggestion of using Notto is sound, or use a coopers sachet. I've done coopers stout clones with coopers yeast & notto in combination and they come up really nice too. A little bit of gypsum won't hurt either.

Hopper.


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

yeah I got a speacial blend of some brewing salts they are trialing but last 2 times I used it, it made a heap of difference, mostly the wort coming out of the mash was alot clearer but the hop profiles seem to of smoothed out a bit more but that could be just me getting process down a little better. I am not blaming the LHBS as the yeast is there as a suggestion and they may have clicked the wrong yeast as notto is right above it. With the recipes they have listed (prob 200+) there might be a mistake here or there and its only in trial mode so I guess I am more to blame for not looking up the yeast when I ordered it  

Also just looked again and in the notes (didnt notice it before) it does say best to use recultured coopers yeast and reasonably high calcium content. Again ordering gear when I am half cut and rushing dont help at all


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## MarkBastard (28/9/11)

Bribie G said:


> I don't know if it's a pH thing or whatever but the only time I used Windsor, in conjuction with US-05 in the CB blend, it took a mild two months - yes two months to clear in the bottle. I chucked the other half of the repack. In any case apart from US-05 I don't use dry ale yeasts.



Yeah I've had pretty bad experiences with anything that isn't either US05 or Nottingham.

Actually there was a dry lager yeast I used that was good too, I think S189 or something like that.

U04 and Windsor and Windsor-derived yeasts I will not touch again.

This may sound like a noob opinion, but if I want body I will use spec malts or mash higher. I just like to know what I'm getting from yeast and work around that. I may want to experiment more with yeast when I've been brewing for 15 years or whatever but at the moment I'll stick with US05 or Nottingham.


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## kelbygreen (28/9/11)

I love notto! but as you say you know notto finishes lower then a normal yeast so you mash a little higher to get the malt to come threw. People say it strips hop flavours but I cannot comment all beers I used it in I loved it and thats prob been the last 10 or more as I dont have heating well do now but didnt most winter and notto was the only yeast I found to keep going threw the cool times. US05 last 3 brews stalled at 1020 I left one for 4 weeks and it came down to 1016 but if I want to wait that long I would be brewing a lager!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/11/11)

Necro alert:

I used Windsor in my house APA, in conjunction with high temp mash, to brew a lower abv% but full flavoured APA.

Kegged yesterday (after cold conditioning) and poured off a glass.

Apart from looking like my toilet bowl after a dodgy Vindaloo (yeast obviously didn't settle as well as I'd hoped - I reckon the WB-06 even settled better), no hop flavour to speak of. That includes the 60g that I dry hopped.

It might be a "wait a couple of days for the yeast to properly settle out and you'll taste them" - but seriously nothing like my house APA normally, which is pungent, fruity and delicious.

My feeling is that once it settles down, it'll settle into a nice enough English Style Pale Ale (especially if I decide to hit it with some willamette in the keg), and sessionable - balance is certainly excellent and I reckon with some tweaks I could turn it into an ESB at 4% abv - but it ain't no APA, and I'm bitterly disappointed because I don't want an EPA at this stage of the year. It's too hot.

In the immortal words of Adam and that other ranga with a goatie - this myth is busted. Low abv%, full flavoured, hoppy APA isn't particularly possible using Windsor yeast and a high mash temp.


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## Ross (21/11/11)

Sounds like something else has gone astray there LRG. Windsor ferments really fast & drops brilliantly bright.


cheers Ross


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## drsmurto (21/11/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Necro alert:
> 
> I used Windsor in my house APA, in conjunction with high temp mash, to brew a lower abv% but full flavoured APA.
> 
> ...



It's not a myth.

I make a light amber ale (2.9%) using windsor that has plenty of hop flavour and aroma - Link

I suspect once the yeast settles out you'll find some hop flavour.

Out of interest, what was the recipe?

Cheers
DrSmurto

EDIT - agree with Ross, this is a quick floccer. Lack of hop flavour/aroma with dry hopping suggest there may be somethng else in your beer hiding the flavour/aroma


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/11/11)

@Ross - maybe - though I did sparge and recirculate and the preboil liquor was extremely clear, and into the fermenter I had virtually no break to speak of (and what I did was run through a sieve with 2 x chux in it.

According to CB website, it's a non-flocculent strain. That, I would assume, would be part of it. That and I did over carbonate, then PRV down. Still, it's really yeast - like I said - WB-06 had this sort of murkiness. I'm hoping it'll settle down, and it's all just a patience issue.

It's not chill haze, hop haze or anything that would indicate suspended protein. And the beer still tastes pretty decent, just not *WHAM!* hops, like I'm used to.

@DrS:

25L:

5kg Perle Ale Malt
.3 Red Wheat Briess (see caveat above - liquor was clear as it comes)
.2 Carared
.1 Caraaroma

10g Galaxy at 30m
30g Galaxy & 30g Citra at 10m
10g Cascade at 10m

30g Cascade & 30g Willamette into the keg as dry hoppage.

Windsor Dried Yeast.

ta for the link, I'll read it now.

Goomba


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## seemax (21/11/11)

Made an american oatmeal (oven roasted) stout with Windsor... stopped at 1.020 ...

only 3% ABV but really nice smooth profile, great choc/cookie notes and some cascade hops lingering


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/11/11)

Thanks seemax - I've made a Dark Ale (very nice) with it - but I've been trying to get my house APA at least 1% lower, but retaining the good bits about it (lots of hoppiness, well balanced, sessionable).

Goomba


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## drsmurto (21/11/11)

You filtered through Chux? :blink: (GMK - is that you?)

As in the cloths you wash dishes with? 

Many of those come impregnated with disinfectants/biocides and/or detergents........

For the love of Aegir, why would you do that?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/11/11)

It was very late, worst brew day ever. It was the ben hur epic of brew days. I didn't have any whirfloc on hand (my fault for not checking before starting), nor any plain paper towel as back up.

It was the pesty free, etc roll version. It was an emergency and I had to improvise. I was tired and sleep deprived.

Forgive me, for I have sinned.

Not good brewing practice, I know, but I'm pretty sure nothing bad has come of it.

Like I said, if I was aiming at an English Pale Ale - fine - perfect. 

And it is a very well balanced beer, considering terminal gravity is 1.020. I'd upped the IBU to compensate and it is a good balanced beer, reminiscent of an EPA or ESB even.

But not the pungency of what I'm used to from my APA which is masses of citrus and passionfruit and cut grass - and I love it.

It's a classic case of missed expectations, rather than epic fail.

Goomba


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## Murcluf (21/11/11)

DrSmurto said:


> You filtered through Chux? :blink: (GMK - is that you?)
> 
> As in the cloths you wash dishes with?
> 
> ...


WTF!!!!!! it's not an Apricot Wheat Beer by Halabet!!!!!!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/11/11)

Further research on the intermawebs on this has shown me:

1. Poor flocculator and can leave lots of yeast in suspension (my problem - opaque beer);
2. Cold Conditioning can fix it, but it needs to be a longer time (whereas with US-05, a day or two's CC is enough to clear it up);
3. Isinglass (or if your are cheap, maybe gelatin) will help settle in the keg; and
4. If you can't deal with all of this, don't use it for pale beers.

Goomba


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## Bribie G (22/11/11)

I've only used Windsor once and it took a bottled mild 2 months to clear. Tasted fine, but for the first six weeks the beer in the bottles was only clear for the top two cm. I don't use dry yeasts for UK ales any more, but I thought I'd give it a try.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/11/11)

If I wasn't out of beer, it'd had ended up cold conditioned longer and I wouldn't be too bothered with letting it settle down.

As it stands, I'll have to get hold of some isinglass (I only have gelatin) and see if I can clear this baby up. I don't have the opportunity to brew for at least another couple weeks, so I'll either have this or nothing.

Goomba


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## [email protected] (22/11/11)

LRG,

Gelatin will clear it up no need for isinglass. Plenty of good instructions on how to do it on the site.


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## drsmurto (22/11/11)

I've never noticed Windsor to be a poor flocculator.

From my experience a big part of the reason it's a low attenuator is the fact it drops out quickly. To get 60% apparent attenuation out of it i have to aerate before and rouse daily.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/11/11)

abc said:


> LRG,
> 
> Gelatin will clear it up no need for isinglass. Plenty of good instructions on how to do it on the site.



I've used gelatin in the past, but somethign I read, seemed to indicated that isinglass is more comprehensive as far as clearing goes.

@Dr S - I've only ever used it in dark beers, so opaqueness or otherwise was never an issue, neither was the fact that it appears as though suspended yeast tends to mute hopping (as my darkies were low hopped).

Goomba


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## MarkBastard (22/11/11)

I recently used a Windsor/US05 mix in a Bitter and it came out crystal clear though I did filter it and cold conditioned before that for a few days.


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## drsmurto (22/11/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I've used gelatin in the past, but somethign I read, seemed to indicated that isinglass is more comprehensive as far as clearing goes.
> 
> @Dr S - I've only ever used it in dark beers, so opaqueness or otherwise was never an issue, neither was the fact that it appears as though suspended yeast tends to mute hopping (as my darkies were low hopped).
> 
> Goomba



I use it in amber beers as well as darker styles and have never had an issue with clarity (when using this yeast).

All my ales spend 2 weeks in primary and then are racked and cold conditioned @1C for a minimum of 1 week, normally 2-3.

Suspended yeast has a flavour so yes, will mask hops but 60g of dry hopping should have gotten through.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/11/11)

DrSmurto said:


> I use it in amber beers as well as darker styles and have never had an issue with clarity (when using this yeast).
> 
> All my ales spend 2 weeks in primary and then are racked and cold conditioned @1C for a minimum of 1 week, normally 2-3.
> 
> Suspended yeast has a flavour so yes, will mask hops but 60g of dry hopping should have gotten through.



Part of this issue is the fact that I ran out of beer and this batch went from grain to brain in a week. Last time I used windsor, I was far more patient.

The dry hopping is getting through (I can smell and taste cascade and willamette), but not the 10min kettle additions (Galaxy & Citra mainly), which is the real *wow* factor of this beer.

Goomba


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## wobbly (19/11/12)

DrS quotes 


```
From my experience a big part of the reason it's a low attenuator is the fact it drops out quickly. To get 60% apparent attenuation out of it i have to aerate before and rouse daily.
```

Can either he or any opne else expand on the comment* "rouse daily"* 

Does this mean give the fermenter a *"good shake"* or take the lid off and give the wort a *"stir' *with a sterilised spoon/instrument

Comments would be appreciated as I am using this yeast for the first time and hope not to stuff it up

Cheers

Wobblyu


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## drsmurto (19/11/12)

wobbly said:


> DrS quotes
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



Not a good shake, more of a gentle swirl of the fermenter. No need to open the lid.

CCing a beer at the moment that used Windsor - 57%aa and bright.


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## wobbly (19/11/12)

Dr S 

Thanks and cheers

Wobbly


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## Mikedub (19/4/13)

[SIZE=medium]I’m putting down an ESB tomorrow and thought I’d try out the Windsor and 05 combo mentioned in this thread, from others experience I should be lucky to get 65-70%aa[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]MO[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]5% crystal [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]9% Candi Syrup amber, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]OG 1.048 - IBU 38.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Trying to design this around this yeast, any suggestions for a mash temp?[/SIZE]


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## slash22000 (19/4/13)

I got 74.6% attenuation in an English bitter I made with the 50/50 US-05 / Windsor combo. Rehydrated at ~35ºC (brought it down to pitching temp with cool wort). Gave the fermentor a good splash around before I pitched.

Roused the yeast every day after the first few days by giving it a bit of a swirl.


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## Screwtop (19/4/13)

slash22000 said:


> I got 74.6% attenuation in an English bitter I made with the 50/50 US-05 / Windsor combo. Rehydrated at ~35ºC (brought it down to pitching temp with cool wort). Gave the fermentor a good splash around before I pitched.
> 
> Roused the yeast every day after the first few days by giving it a bit of a swirl.


Maybe more to do with a dominant strain, have a read: http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/killer-brewing-strains


Screwy


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## slash22000 (19/4/13)

Not 100% sure, it's the first and only time I've used it so far. But the beer definitely has a good yeasty estery English character which is definitely NOT the US-05.


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## Mikedub (19/4/13)

I made a starter with Windsor this week good flavor so looking forward trying it out with with a bitter, then maybe a porter on the cake, I should have made the syrup tonight but ended up watching the league test, which is odd cause I'm not a fan of the code.
Awesome, its brew day tomorrow, :super:


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## GalBrew (19/4/13)

Poor attenuation indeed. Was recommended for a gluten free beer, bombed out around 1.030 and very poor floc.


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## slash22000 (19/4/13)

It doesn't pretend to have good attenuation though. Even the Danstar site specifically says it is a low attenuator. Weirdly there are a lot of conflicting reports about its flocculation. Some people say their Windsor beers drop clear as glass. The Windsor / US-05 beer I made has been cloudy even after cold crashing at -1ºC, adding gelatin, and almost 2 weeks in the keg. Only now it's coming out halfway clear.

I like this combination though and I'll be using it again, partially because I want to know if my high attenuation was a fluke or maybe if I'm blessed by the Danstar Gods.


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## Mikedub (19/4/13)

I might pitch the Windsor and see where it gets to before adding the 05, just cause I'm curious


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## B1n0ry (19/4/13)

I have tried Windsor in several brews, granted, usually dark.
I agree that it's a low attenuator, leaving plenty of malt flavour in the final product. But I always had it drop out pretty well.
I bottle, and find that I can pour out every last drop from the bottle without it turning cloudy, leaving a creamy-looking sediment at the bottom... and this has been without finings, or cold crashing for long lengths of time.


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## Mikedub (20/5/13)

[SIZE=medium]Brewed a bitter using Danstar Windsor, I split 5 litres off and fermented with S-04 as a comparison. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]from 1.049, Windsor finished at 1.012 in 3 days @ 18 degrees [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]S-04 finished at 1.006, 6 days @ 18 degrees [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Have just pitched a Brown Porter on part of the cake, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Love the flavour of the Windsor, I’m a convert[/SIZE]


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