# Warning Regarding Big W PET Beer Bottles, and my Introduction to AHB



## DeanMcMullen

Hello All,

1st Post to the AHB forum.

A little about me, I’m 33, living in BrisVegas and relatively new to brewing. My Brother Lord Raja Goomba has gotten me into All Grain Brewing, which I’m enjoying (brewed 2 brews, I’ll explain about 1 of them soon), however I have used a few FWK’s, 3 of which have been from All Inn brewing. If I can I’d love to give a shout out to the guys at All Inn, who have consistently made me happy with their beers, and their FWK’s are top quality and massively enjoyable when completed.

Enough about me, I thought I might use my first post to give you all a warning regarding the 15x PET Beer Bottles that Big W supplies.

After my first AGB I completed with my Bro, I wanted, by way of experimentation, to create a very hoppy beer. I employed Vic Secret (20g start of boil), Chinook (20g 10m) and Cascade (30gx2 10mins and Dry Hopped) hops at the start of the boil, 10 mins prior to the end of boil, and then dry hopped 3 days before FG. (Look at me using all these jargon things…cue Han Solo **Thats Great Kid, Don’t get Cocky**). Please note, all measurements and suggestions and time frames were all recommended, I just followed the guidelines my bro had provided.

Now, I understand you are probably all thinking, “Muppet, he’s trying too much too soon.” And I will concede that for a little while I think I’ll stick to recipes until I understand the basics a bit more. But I’m a throw me in the deep end kind of person. Sink or Swim.

But I digress. Wort production went fine, and with my Temp Controller I can get fermenting temps accurate, so no issues there. At the same time I had only just bought a new box of 15 PET Beer Bottles from Big W from their HB section. These bottles seemed weaker, with a thinner wall than the Coopers bottles I had obtained in the Coopers kit from Aldi (the coopers kit now acts as a secondary rack prior to bottle filling, as I’ve since moved up to a 30L blue fermenter from Bunnings which doesn’t have a good bottle filling head on it, yet. Ghetto Brewing). I thought nothing more of it and filled them up, and dropped in 2 Carb drops per bottle as per the directions on the carb drop packets.

Sidenote: To compare, the plastic screw cap bottles I got in the coopers beer kit have a thicker wall, more like a 600ml coke bottle, whereas the bottles I bought from Big W are thin, like bottled homebrand water from Coles or Woolies.

I was concerned at this time that, because the hops used for dry hopping was sitting above the brew line and not actually in the wort/pre-beer that I should scrape it off the side and mix it in, so I did about 1 day prior to bottling.
That was around March this year.

I thought everything seemed to be going alright until about 1 week later I opened the box with all the bottles in it and noticed it was wet at the bottom of the box. I checked all the bottles and they weren’t wet, so I thought maybe it had happened when I put them in the box.
Skip forward 2 weeks and I checked the box and sadly it was soggy at the bottom. I figured 1 of the bottles must be leaking, but I couldn’t tell which one still… they all seemed the same.

At this point as there were fruit flies in the box I had to ditch it. We were moving at the time so I had the bottles sitting on the ground. Sure enough more fruit flies and more liquid on the ground, so I shifted all 10 bottles to a Plastic Tub with Lid that I had bought from SuperCheap in preparation for moving house. I also packed my temp controller in the same box on top of the bottles, and other than moving them to the new place, completely forgot about them for a while, thinking my brew had been a failure because I had stuffed up the dry hopping or something.



So, I looked into my HoppyHop™ beer last night. And I’ve identified that there is something wrong with the bottles I used from Big W, the plastic twist caps. I kept meaning to get around to them, but just kept forgetting as well. So last night I went to the garage and opened the plastic tub that held all the bottles. There was about 2 inches of off “beer” sitting in the bottom of it, and smelled like really strong vinegar. And a lot of scum floating in it.

I didn’t realise when I filled them that the plastic bottles were so weak they leaked beer. I would say over-carbonation, but I put in the 2 carb drops per 740ml that the batch required, so I’m not sure.
Anyhow the vinegar smell was overwhelming, but because there were thousands of fruit fly looking bugs swimming around and flying everywhere it needed to be dealt with immediately (the house sometimes ends up with bugs, and now we have found the culprit). So I picked out the bottles and seeing as some of them had only about 100ml in the bottom I opened them up and drained out the liquid. I couldn’t help but notice 2 things though. First, the bottles even with only about 100ml of liquid, still had a lot of carbonated pressure. And secondly, although the bottom of the plastic tub had liquid that had gone off and smelled of vinegar, when I opened the bottles they smelled good. Like beer. Flavoursome beer.

SO I sifted through the bottles and found 2 that still had all their liquid, and another 3 or 4 that had about 75% of their contents. I washed all the bugs off and wrapped them in plastic freezer bags (in case of freakage leakage) and took them upstairs to put in the fridge.

So I’m hoping 2 things. First, that I can still drink the beer (looking for positives), and second that if I can drink the beer and it _tastes good_ (hoppy and bitter) that _I didn’t fail in my experiment_. That it wasn’t my production or preparation that needs work, but that it was this batch of bottles that needed fixing. That would fill me with confidence that I do actually have a handle on making this wonderful beverage and that the problem was storage, not production. So I will go home and test my brew, and if it’s a success (as far as experiments can be successes first time around) then I will push ahead with the Chocolate Stout and Lawnmower Pale Ale that I’m planning and see if I can again do these by myself if time is possible as well. If not, going to ask the Oracle (bro) more questions until I get the basics right. Plus another brew day. Probably a Celebration Ale. It shall be called "No. 5 Trevorbration Ale" Or something equally applicable with the Choc Stout.

On the down side, the Temp Controller was sitting in the bucket as well, although on top of the bottles. So I have to go home and open it and clean it up and check it. If it’s just the extension cable that is damaged then I can cut it and put a new cable on, but if liquid has gotten inside the controller (and not just sprayed lightly on the outside) then I’ll need to buy a new one). Dang.

TL;DR – Big W PET Beer Bottles do not have the structure to withstand normal beer pressure for carbonation. Be warned. They may be $15, but you might as well spend this and get some tallies from Gumtree or elsewhere, and a bench capper.

PS. If anyone in Brisbane (Northside or Closer to the CBD) is selling a bench capper cheap enough, I’m interested. And an extra 30L fermenter wouldn’t go astray as well. :icon_cheers:


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## madpierre06

Welcome, Raja's brother. That liquid levels were very similar leads me to think leaky bottles. Might be worth getting a refund on 'em (and even your controller as well, put that on 'em as well, their failed product caused it) (after you've emptied the good ones. If your fermenting/carbing processes are spot on, I'd be going crownies, I do prefer the sturdiness of them particularly though. I f you dont mind the capping process. Or grab some decent PET's. Although I have read that they can eventually fail anyway.

I'm just up the top of the hill if you're ever interested in a co-brew co-drink type of day as well, no expert but the beers come out drinkable.


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## GrumpyPaul

All I have to say is....

You are the brother of Lord Raja Goombah and the best nickname you could come up with its DeanMcMullen ?


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## Red Baron

Welcome Dean,
Let us know how the ones that you salvaged taste- that will be a good test as to whether you had an infected batch (i've never pushed the trub above the liquid level back into it- that may be a possible infection source)
Were any of the bottles split/ cracked? I had a PET that split on me once, but it was very obvious. If not, when using PET, I find I have to really give them a good hard twist to get them sealed properly.
How did you determine fermentation had finished? Using 2 carb drops shouldn't over carb your beer, but incomplete fermentation + 2 carb drops probably will.....

All the best with your future brewing endeavors.
Cheers,
RB


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## DeanMcMullen

madpierre:

Yeah, I'm assuming bottle failure, as I've tried other PET bottles and no issues. I do have a good collection of Tallies and stubbies I can use, but they were being used to store a Burleigh Brewing 28 replica I had brewed en masse.

GrumpyPaul:

I could have used my Wulffehound handle, but it doesn't really work in these forums... who wants beer smelling like wet dog?


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## luggy

I had the same thing happen a while back, they leak from the bottom where they're injection molded but only leak once carbed up. Welcome to the forum


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## DeanMcMullen

Red Baron said:


> Welcome Dean,
> Let us know how the ones that you salvaged taste- that will be a good test as to whether you had an infected batch (i've never pushed the trub above the liquid level back into it- that may be a possible infection source)
> Were any of the bottles split/ cracked? I had a PET that split on me once, but it was very obvious. If not, when using PET, I find I have to really give them a good hard twist to get them sealed properly.
> How did you determine fermentation had finished? Using 2 carb drops shouldn't over carb your beer, but incomplete fermentation + 2 carb drops probably will.....
> 
> All the best with your future brewing endeavors.
> Cheers,
> RB


I measured gravity and when it was stable for 2 days I assumed fermentation was complete. But I mixed in the Hop scum and left it for another day and the gravity remained the same (sure, it sounds dumb now that I mention it). I sterilized everything, so I was always hoping it wasn't infection. Very careful with cleanliness.

The bottles are still all solid. I tightened the lids super tight. Even now, the bottles with 100% and 75% in them are ballooned, but can stand up straight.

Thanks for the suggestions though.


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## DeanMcMullen

luggy said:


> I had the same thing happen a while back, they leak from the bottom where they're injection molded but only leak once carbed up. Welcome to the forum


I did suspect this, because I can't see that they have leaked from the lid, as they were still super tight last night when I opened a couple of them. And when they were sitting on the ground there was no liquid or marks on the sides or lid of the bottles, but was pooled up underneath where the injection moulding break off point was.


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## thylacine

re PET bottle quality-

I still have Cooper's PET from over eight years ago, used regularly and no problems. Yes, Big W used to sell them and then 'downgraded' their supplier/product.

Dan Murphy still sells Coopers. Their caps changed a couple years ago but still hold pressure. In my case,
8-10 months later carbing is still fine.

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_730411/coopers-pet-bottles-and-caps-15-pack


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## DeanMcMullen

So, I opened it. Wow. It's bitter. And I'm not talking '1 testicle? declare war!' bitter but, I may need a 2nd opinion, I think it's about 60 or 70 IBU. Imperial IPA territory.

As per the attached images however I am thinking there is possibly an issue with carbonation. It developed a thick head quickly and took a while to go down. Ironically it is high ABV so I got a thick head pretty quickly too.

I'm still sure the bottles are faulty, but I'll have to figure out how the super hops that I used interacted with the carb drops.


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## DeanMcMullen

thylacine said:


> re PET bottle quality-
> 
> I still have Cooper's PET from over eight years ago, used regularly and no problems. Yes, Big W used to sell them and then 'downgraded' their supplier/product.
> 
> Dan Murphy still sells Coopers. Their caps changed a couple years ago but still hold pressure. In my case,
> 8-10 months later carbing is still fine.
> 
> https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_730411/coopers-pet-bottles-and-caps-15-pack


Agreed. I've used the coopers PET bottles for 3 brews and no issues. Definitely the Big W versions.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

If that's the head, then your bottles look like the issue. It's high carbonation but not gushers and even gusher will still stay in the bottle and not out.

I'm happy if I have an IPA with a persistent moussey head like that.

Wort production is progressing nicely though!


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## michaeld16

Epic first post mate and welcome. My suggestion is if ya think this brewing thing might stick around in your life invest in kegging. It sure can cost a bit to get the gear together but man did it raise my enjoyment level of this hobby. But as for your current problem, yeah big w pets are shite.


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## The Flyingscrapyard

Welcome Dean and thanks for your informative post. I have never used PET bottles, but did wonder about them, but I have built up a nice collection of Pommy 500ml bottles, which seem thick enough to smash coconuts with.


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## Weizguy

Literally millions of VB drinkers, because you asked.

Welcome, because you're here.


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## TidalPete

Hey DeanMcMullen,

I have a Superautomatica Bottle Capper which was found at the Ferny Grove dump & that I have restored to perfect condition but never used.
As it was found on a Northside rubbish tip it is obviously *MUCH* superior to any Superautomatica Bottle Capper ever found on a Southside dump. 
If interested, PM me if you want to collect it or can find someone to collect for you & take it down to Brissie.
All the best with your brewing ITF.


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## Denobrew

Hey DeanMcMullen, 
I've also got a capper you can have it TidalPetes doesn't work out. Lot's of bottles you can have too. I'm in Paddington


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## klangers

Can verify that the PET bottles can leak from the injection moulding riser point. Exactly the same thing has happened to me on numerous occasions, with both Coopers bottles and others, to the point where I switched to all-glass. Now I keg and I'm much happier, albeit poorer.


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## DeanMcMullen

michaeld16 said:


> Epic first post mate and welcome. My suggestion is if ya think this brewing thing might stick around in your life invest in kegging. It sure can cost a bit to get the gear together but man did it raise my enjoyment level of this hobby. But as for your current problem, yeah big w pets are shite.


Believe me I wish I had the funding to consider Kegging, but sadly at this point I don't. Maybe in the future I will be more financially viable (with brewing good beer at cheaper prices) but currently I just can't. But I can understand how it would make things much better.



The Flyingscrapyard said:


> Welcome Dean and thanks for your informative post. I have never used PET bottles, but did wonder about them, but I have built up a nice collection of Pommy 500ml bottles, which seem thick enough to smash coconuts with.


I only have about 25 or so PET Bottles, the remainder are all Tallies, Stubbies, or, and I really do like them, the Grolsch swing top bottles. If I could do all my brewing in swing tops (but thick glass walls) then I would. No capper required. The problem I have, and I'm not sure about you, but the Carb Drops are measured for 330ml or 740ml tallies, so having to dice up the carb drops isn't fun. Having said that I am looking to obtain a 2nd fermenter to rack and batch carb too in the future and ditch the drops. But funding rears it's ugly head once again.


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## DeanMcMullen

TidalPete said:


> Hey DeanMcMullen,
> 
> I have a Superautomatica Bottle Capper which was found at the Ferny Grove dump & that I have restored to perfect condition but never used.
> As it was found on a Northside rubbish tip it is obviously *MUCH* superior to any Superautomatica Bottle Capper ever found on a Southside dump.
> If interested, PM me if you want to collect it or can find someone to collect for you & take it down to Brissie.
> All the best with your brewing ITF.


That would be great, but I'm not usually up the Sunshine Coast way. If you want to mail it too me I'd be glad to pay you back for the postage? The cheaper the postage the better. PM if possible.

Northside Dumps are much better than the south. We have cleaner rubbish.


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## DeanMcMullen

Denobrew said:


> Hey DeanMcMullen,
> I've also got a capper you can have it TidalPetes doesn't work out. Lot's of bottles you can have too. I'm in Paddington


Sounds good, I'll PM you.


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## Matplat

DeanMcMullen said:


> The problem I have, and I'm not sure about you, but the Carb Drops are measured for 330ml or 740ml tallies, so having to dice up the carb drops isn't fun. Having said that I am looking to obtain a 2nd fermenter to rack and batch carb too in the future and ditch the drops. But funding rears it's ugly head once again.


Do a search for goatherder pseudo bulk priming it's 'the go'.


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## danestead

DeanMcMullen said:


> Believe me I wish I had the funding to consider Kegging, but sadly at this point I don't. Maybe in the future I will be more financially viable (with brewing good beer at cheaper prices) but currently I just can't. But I can understand how it would make things much better.
> 
> I only have about 25 or so PET Bottles, the remainder are all Tallies, Stubbies, or, and I really do like them, the Grolsch swing top bottles. If I could do all my brewing in swing tops (but thick glass walls) then I would. No capper required. The problem I have, and I'm not sure about you, but the Carb Drops are measured for 330ml or 740ml tallies, so having to dice up the carb drops isn't fun. Having said that I am looking to obtain a 2nd fermenter to rack and batch carb too in the future and ditch the drops. But funding rears it's ugly head once again.


The carb drops are just plain old table sugar/sucrose. No need to stick with the drops. 'Bulk priming' is an easy way to bottle into different sized bottles.


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## DeanMcMullen

Sorry, I should clarify. I meant having to dice up the carb drops for the 500ml grolsch bottles is difficult. I run the risk or under or over carbing.

My other concern with bulk priming is that although the calculations can be done by computer, but my biggest issue is not knowing how much pre-carb beer I have. I don't really have a measuring method. And I always over estimate the amount of bottles I need so I've got a spare or 2 clean when I do bottle.


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## sp0rk

DeanMcMullen said:


> Sorry, I should clarify. I meant having to dice up the carb drops for the 500ml grolsch bottles is difficult. I run the risk or under or over carbing.


Just use 1
I find that carb drops always tend to overcarb a little, so 1 worked just fine in Grolsch bottles when I used to use them


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## DeanMcMullen

sp0rk said:


> Just use 1
> I find that carb drops always tend to overcarb a little, so 1 worked just fine in Grolsch bottles when I used to use them


Thanks. Good suggestion. I'm cool with taking the easy option.


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## Coodgee

tl;dr


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## Dozer71

DeanMcMullen said:


> I meant having to dice up the carb drops for the 500ml grolsch bottles is difficult. I run the risk or under or over carbing.


Or get the 3 scoop from your LHBS and use sugar - white or raw (small for 375ml, medium for 500 & large for 750ml). Much cheaper than carb drops.


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## danestead

DeanMcMullen said:


> My other concern with bulk priming is that although the calculations can be done by computer, but my biggest issue is not knowing how much pre-carb beer I have. I don't really have a measuring method. And I always over estimate the amount of bottles I need so I've got a spare or 2 clean when I do bottle.


I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "pre-carb beer" but my best guess is you don't know how much carbonation is in your beer from the fermentation process.

A proper 'bulk priming calculator' or the like should ask you to input a temperature. In general, you should input the temperature your beer finished fermenting at, prior to cold crashing (if you do that). Some people will tell you to put in the warmest temperature that the fermenting beer got to and that is also correct in a way. Choose either of those temperatures and you will get close enough anyway.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

^^^^ That looks like a good calculator to use.

If you are using plain old white table sugar, it'd be worth mentioning it also has 2 other common names: sucrose and cane sugar.

It will also ask you how carbonated you want your beer. This is measured in volumes of co2. 2.5 is pretty standard for a lager or American style ale.

No need to worry about ending up with spare bottles; just calculate your bulk priming sugar amount based on the total volume of beer you transfer to your bulk priming vessel (spare fermentor or whatever).

Hope that helps.


Edit: I just re-read your post. Maybe you were talking about not knowing the volume of beer you have. If so, you could use a spare fermentor with volume markings on it or using a set of scales would get you close enough by weighing the beer. It'll be close enough to 1kg per 1L.


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## DeanMcMullen

Wanted to say a big old thank you to Tim/denobrew. Absolute champion and great guy. Thanks for the capper and supplies. 

Dane: Thanks. You are correct, I couldn't measure the beer prior to bottling. My fermenter does have the measurement on the side, but I wasn't sure how much was yeast cake and how much I'd lose as waste to make a proper calculation. Thanks to Tim I now have a second fermenter to rack to, so I will try my hand at batch carb now. Measuring based on weight is a good suggestion too, and would alleviate some of my concerns. Thank you.


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## Mr B

Another tip on bulk priming (or bottling in general). If you get a length of hose (few bucks from the brew shop) that fits on the tap, it will fit on the bottling wand using a bit of the smaller tubing that the brew shop will also have. Then just pop your bulk prime container on a bucket or something and wand your way through the bottles. Pop all the lids on when you finish, then cap them.


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## DeanMcMullen

Alright, so Grass Clippings (Summer Ale) is almost finished fermentation. I Dry Hopped 20g of Cascade last night, and I'm aiming for Wednesday night to bottle. Here's my next question, I used 2 separate programs to calculate the quantity of Dextrose I would need to prime 21.5L (my estimation of total volume, possibly even 22L).
Brewers Friend Calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/) says that at a volume of 21.5L and CO2 of 2.5 and temp of 22°C I should be aiming for 213.1g of Dextrose.
Wort (Brewing App from Google Play store) says that with the same figures I should be putting in 264.2g of dextrose.

That's a significant difference, either being 24% too much, or being 19% less than I need.

How do I be more conclusive about priming dextrose quantities?


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## danestead

DeanMcMullen said:


> Alright, so Grass Clippings (Summer Ale) is almost finished fermentation. I Dry Hopped 20g of Cascade last night, and I'm aiming for Wednesday night to bottle. Here's my next question, I used 2 separate programs to calculate the quantity of Dextrose I would need to prime 21.5L (my estimation of total volume, possibly even 22L).
> Brewers Friend Calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/) says that at a volume of 21.5L and CO2 of 2.5 and temp of 22°C I should be aiming for 213.1g of Dextrose.
> Wort (Brewing App from Google Play store) says that with the same figures I should be putting in 264.2g of dextrose.
> 
> That's a significant difference, either being 24% too much, or being 19% less than I need.
> 
> How do I be more conclusive about priming dextrose quantities?


I used 4 calculators and got 145g, 146g, 146g, and 159g of dextrose/corn sugar.

I'm not sure what you did differently, but they are vastly different results.

Edit: I suspect you have looked at the DME quantities. White table sugar is sucrose or cane sugar, dextrose is corn sugar, DME is DME.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

For 2.5 Vols, I generally go 7g per L of beer. It is a mental rule of thumb that works. If I want lower vols, it goes down to 5g/L - not scientific, but seems to be always spot on.


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## DeanMcMullen

danestead said:


> I used 4 calculators and got 145g, 146g, 146g, and 159g of dextrose/corn sugar.
> 
> I'm not sure what you did differently, but they are vastly different results.
> 
> Edit: I suspect you have looked at the DME quantities. White table sugar is sucrose or cane sugar, dextrose is corn sugar, DME is DME.


Good pickup. Yes, I was looking at DME (thinking D for Dextrose). But I took your calculations (and my own confirmation calcs) and primed at 146g of dextrose. Thanks Danestead.

LRG1: Thanks Bro. I will note this for future ref.


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## peteru

If you are happy to wing it, then a typical 20-25l batch bulk primed with 150g of dextrose (aka sugar) will result in properly carbonated beer that won't explode (assuming the fermentation was complete). Doing it that way is actually a lot more accurate than carbonation drops and more importantly, consistent.


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## evoo4u

thylacine said:


> re PET bottle quality-
> 
> I still have Cooper's PET from over eight years ago, used regularly and no problems. Yes, Big W used to sell them and then 'downgraded' their supplier/product.



I've just had two PETs leak from the bottom, mess everywhere last night, and bottles near-empty but still pressurised. Which leads me to two questions:

After attending a few swaps, my stock of PETs is a mix. I bought Coopers ones initially, but how can I tell now the Coopers ones from the others? I think Coopers PETs have had more than one shape over the years. In other words - how can I tell which ones to ditch?

The immediate problem is that the two which failed yesterday leave me with just 22 for the Stanthorpe swap. When I bottled a month ago, I only had 24 caps, so bottled the remainder of the batch in glass tallies. Can I simply open the tallies, transfer the contents to good PETs and add 6g sugar to each? Or would I need to squirt in a bit more active yeast as well?

Geez I hate PETs!


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## Grott

Transfer from the glass to the PET bottles will cause some oxygenation but you can dramatically reduce this by chilling the glass bottles and the empty PET bottles (both at same temp and will reduce foam). Then slowly pour from one to the other with the PET bottle on the largest angle possible as if pouring a beer. This allows for the liquid to “slide” down the bottle. When done I’d add half a sugar drop or half a level teaspoon of sugar.


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## wynnum1

evoo4u said:


> I've just had two PETs leak from the bottom, mess everywhere last night, and bottles near-empty but still pressurised. Which leads me to two questions:
> 
> After attending a few swaps, my stock of PETs is a mix. I bought Coopers ones initially, but how can I tell now the Coopers ones from the others? I think Coopers PETs have had more than one shape over the years. In other words - how can I tell which ones to ditch?
> 
> The immediate problem is that the two which failed yesterday leave me with just 22 for the Stanthorpe swap. When I bottled a month ago, I only had 24 caps, so bottled the remainder of the batch in glass tallies. Can I simply open the tallies, transfer the contents to good PETs and add 6g sugar to each? Or would I need to squirt in a bit more active yeast as well?
> 
> Geez I hate PETs! [/QUOTE
> Had a problem with brewcraft bottles years ago the bottom of the bottle was not sealed had hole in a couple .


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## TwoCrows

I use PET bottles exclusively and have done for many years.
I had quite a few PET, coopers and Big W bottles explode over 2014- 2015 summer months. Since then when I fill the bottle I squeeze them slightly when filling and I also leave some oxygen in the bottle for the secondary fermentation. This stops the bottle over pressurizing, helps with bottle longevity when stored in non temp regulated storage.
I also store the bottles in a big black bin bag inside the original boxes, this helps me move them around and if they explode helps to contain all the liquid. I never EVER want to clean exploded beer bottles again.

If you want to check the health of your bottles look around the bottles base contours. If you see cracks or cracks appearing, mostly radiating from the inner circle to the feet. This is the down fall of PET bottles. If in doubt chuck it out.


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## pcqypcqy

evoo4u said:


> I've just had two PETs leak from the bottom, mess everywhere last night, and bottles near-empty but still pressurised. Which leads me to two questions:
> 
> After attending a few swaps, my stock of PETs is a mix. I bought Coopers ones initially, but how can I tell now the Coopers ones from the others? I think Coopers PETs have had more than one shape over the years. In other words - how can I tell which ones to ditch?
> 
> The immediate problem is that the two which failed yesterday leave me with just 22 for the Stanthorpe swap. When I bottled a month ago, I only had 24 caps, so bottled the remainder of the batch in glass tallies. Can I simply open the tallies, transfer the contents to good PETs and add 6g sugar to each? Or would I need to squirt in a bit more active yeast as well?
> 
> Geez I hate PETs!



Roger, did this happen to one of yours from the last swap as well? 

Too late now for the upcoming swap but most of us in TooSOBA go fresh bottles for swaps. The Morgans ones at the shop have been ok I believe.


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## evoo4u

pcqypcqy said:


> Roger, did this happen to one of yours from the last swap as well?



Yeah, I believe Earle had a bomb, but as far as I know, it was the only one of my 24 which failed. This leads me to believe it was just a one-off dud PET bottle and not a case of over-carbing. With my current batch for the swap, I've tried one of the glass tallies, and the level of carbonation is just right. For all my bottling I use a teaspoon of sugar (raw sugar) from a 1 tsp/5ml measuring spoon, which delivers 4.8g sugar into a tallie. So that's not an excessive amount.

Now in a previous thread, I posted a photo of two PETs, side by side, both filled to the normal level. One was (presumably) 740ml, the other weighed 150g less - so therefore probably only 600ml. But both my failed ones yesterday were the "full sized" ones.

So while Coopers say that their caps can be re-used, I'm swinging to the point of view that PET bottles are a one-use-only?


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## TwoCrows

I will PM you my address if you are only using PET bottles once, and their caps.


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## Vini2ton

The time and effort we spend creating our brews, in all our wonderous fashions and methods, surely warrants greater respect in packaging than PET bottles. They are the work of the devil and an aberation to our art I tell you. I'm amazed how we didn't all die by putting a teaspoon of white sugar in each big bottle to prime them and all without the surety of "calculatoooors"! The recycling bin is the best place for p,p,pet bottles.


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## Bribie G

Been using them for ten years, very few problems. Maybe six didn't gas up due to leaks out of many hundreds.

The big advantage of PET purpose made brewing bottles is that on bottling and priming, you hand-squeeze the beer right up to the rim, cap tightly, then as the secondary gas is produced it plumps out the bottle again to give you a pure CO2 headspace with no oxygen to stale the beer, apart from what got absorbed by the beer during the fill and hopefully consumed during bottle conditioning.

That's why I don't use glass anymore.

ed: the corollary to Vini2ton's comment is that nearly all the entrants in competitions, after applying advanced brewing skills then seem to throw all this under the bus and bottle in glass with a nice oxygen headspace then store away for months. Commercial breweries don't do this with glass, they flush and counter pressure fill so the bottle is oozing CO2 as they whack the cap on.


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## wynnum1

Are they PET i thought they had different plastic to stop oxygen penetration.


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## Bribie G

Yes. What I'm referring to is oxygen in the headspace, which is easily eliminated using PET but not glass.


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## pcqypcqy

evoo4u said:


> Yeah, I believe Earle had a bomb, but as far as I know, it was the only one of my 24 which failed. This leads me to believe it was just a one-off dud PET bottle and not a case of over-carbing. With my current batch for the swap, I've tried one of the glass tallies, and the level of carbonation is just right. For all my bottling I use a teaspoon of sugar (raw sugar) from a 1 tsp/5ml measuring spoon, which delivers 4.8g sugar into a tallie. So that's not an excessive amount.
> 
> Now in a previous thread, I posted a photo of two PETs, side by side, both filled to the normal level. One was (presumably) 740ml, the other weighed 150g less - so therefore probably only 600ml. But both my failed ones yesterday were the "full sized" ones.
> 
> So while Coopers say that their caps can be re-used, I'm swinging to the point of view that PET bottles are a one-use-only?



I noticed with the July swap that more and more of the brands were getting cheaper and cheaper, where the base of the bottle was filling quite stiff/brittle compared to what PET should feel like, which is ductile and flexible. I think this is what happened with Earle's bottle of your beer, is that it couldnt' stretch with the pressure and just burst at the stiff point. It sounds like that might be what's happened to you again.

I've been leaning towards one use with PET's, and only using them for swaps / comp entries. The reason being that they are painful to clean (c.f. glass), and they seem to hold infections better as a result (tasting some of the swap beers from the last two swaps, and then again after I've tried to clean them and refill).

Totally with Bribie G though, so everything is in kegs for now. I plan to make up some custom bungs to allow me to counter pressure fill glass with my carb cap.


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## Bribie G

Wynnum, I believe they are laminated with a layer to prevent gases permeating.


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## good4whatAlesU

Bribie G said:


> . . after applying advanced brewing skills then seem to throw all this under the bus and bottle in glass with a nice oxygen headspace then store away for months. Commercial breweries don't do this with glass, they flush and counter pressure fill so the bottle is oozing CO2 as they whack the cap on.



Home brewers can do this too with a counter pressure bottle filler. Cost $99 from memory. 

Flush with CO2, fill from the bottom and cap on foam. It's a slightly messy process, but seems to work well.


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## kaiserben

I re-use PET indefinitely (will only chuck out once they are visibly a lot crappier than the rest of the bottles, or there has been infected beer in the bottle)

I've never had a leaker ... (I've had a few bottles out of many hundreds that didn't carb up at all due to, I assume, CO2 escaping somewhere around the cap). 

But I do try my best to avoid the Big W bottles because - and I clean by filling each bottle with hot tap water and perc - hot tap water has made the necks of the Big W ones distort out of shape. 

The Mangrove Jacks PET bottles are great.


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## Bribie G

good4whatAlesU said:


> Home brewers can do this too with a counter pressure bottle filler. Cost $99 from memory.
> 
> Flush with CO2, fill from the bottom and cap on foam. It's a slightly messy process, but seems to work well.


Along with numerous brewers on the forum I bought a CPBF during the CPBF craze of around 8 years ago. Never hear about them nowadays, they were a complete PITA and the tap mounted version wasn't much better. Maybe still a couple around.
Owned by brewers who have three arms.
Hobart maybe.


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## Yuz

I'm a noob and have started with PET's - 30 of Mangroves (750ml) and 30 of Coopers (740ml).

No issues with them so far, but instead of going to Glass, I went straight to kegging. Weighing up the cost of Glass + Capper + Washer / Dryer + caps + Time etc and it was a no brainer - two reconditioned kegs added up to about $160. Co2 gear I had to get anyway for the 'Saurus.

PET's are still in use but I only bottle 23L batches. 21L batches are for kegging. Works so far  I'll keep using PETs long term, I think they're great. If only there were diff colour caps available.


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## good4whatAlesU

Bribie G said:


> Along with numerous brewers on the forum I bought a CPBF during the CPBF craze of around 8 years ago. Never hear about them nowadays, they were a complete PITA and the tap mounted version wasn't much better. Maybe still a couple around.
> Owned by brewers who have three arms.
> Hobart maybe.



Agreed they are a PITA - but I seem to get mine to work pretty well. . got to be patient, hold the mouth right. 

I do come from a very small town though .. 3 kids in my class (guaranteed a ribbon on sports day). That could have something to do with it.


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## SnailAle

I noticed you chucked the little trade mark symbol on your IPA attempt, planning on taking her commercial?


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## manticle

Bribie G said:


> Along with numerous brewers on the forum I bought a CPBF during the CPBF craze of around 8 years ago. Never hear about them nowadays, they were a complete PITA and the tap mounted version wasn't much better. Maybe still a couple around.
> Owned by brewers who have three arms.
> Hobart maybe.




Oi.




Two arms, two heads, just like everybody else.


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## evoo4u

Update:

I compared my two failed PETS with a reputable one at my LHBS. My two duds were not Morgans or Mangrove Jacks, and I don't think they were the cheapy ones from BigW either.

So I've sorted my stock of empties. 17 Morgans, and 40 also-rans. So 40 to the tip, another new carton of Morgans to make up the numbers, and another brew-day tomorrow to brew another Smoked Porter for the swap.

Who said this homebrewing lark was relaxing?


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## GregMeady

I have a couple of boxes of Morgans PET bottles. I usually have been bottling in glass, But every batch I like to sneak in a pet bottle or two at a couple of points through bottling. This gives to two samples, to squeeze to make sure its carbing and also as testers so I know 'when it feels about right' hahaha - then that batch is ready for




. Some take longer, some shorter period of time, hence the PET bottle samplers. Thats about the extent of my PET bottle usage, but I will say that having done this since a friend put me onto it, the beer in the PET bottle kinda performs differently from the same batch in glass. Just my observations, but hey...I'm a newbie and still trying to learn.




Whatever works for you & you feel comfortable with is good enough. Afterall it's your beer.


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## Brewnicorn

evoo4u said:


> Update:
> 
> ... So 40 to the tip...
> 
> Who said this homebrewing lark was relaxing?



That’s a shit deal man - sorry to hear it. I was about to get a bunch of new bottles for sharing with some Mates and storage so you’ve probably saved me some grief. I’d buy you a beer just for that!


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## Hermies

DeanMcMullen said:


> Alright, so Grass Clippings (Summer Ale) is almost finished fermentation. I Dry Hopped 20g of Cascade last night, and I'm aiming for Wednesday night to bottle. Here's my next question, I used 2 separate programs to calculate the quantity of Dextrose I would need to prime 21.5L (my estimation of total volume, possibly even 22L).
> Brewers Friend Calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/) says that at a volume of 21.5L and CO2 of 2.5 and temp of 22°C I should be aiming for 213.1g of Dextrose.
> Wort (Brewing App from Google Play store) says that with the same figures I should be putting in 264.2g of dextrose.
> 
> That's a significant difference, either being 24% too much, or being 19% less than I need.
> 
> How do I be more conclusive about priming dextrose quantities?


No wonder your bottles are splitting with that amount of priming sugar. Max amount I do is around 138gm per 22 - 23 lt for a fermentation temp of 18*C and for lagers around 145gm per 23lt at 12*C


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