# Fermenting In A Cube



## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

Hi,

I bought 2 cubes from Bunnings not long ago to try out the NC cube technique as described on this site. It turns out the neither seal properly despite many efforts to sand and get the lids to seat properly...

Through necessity I have transferred todays brew into one and will be pitching soon. How is the best way to "seal" the lids in lieu of an airlock? I don't have any rubber bands otherwise I would use Glad wrap and a rubber band. The lids let air in and out, should I put a layer of Glad wrap before the cap or just go with a naked cap? Is there anything else I need to look out for/consider when fermenting in a cube? I have a tap installed so when it's time to transfer I'm good to go


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## barls (20/1/11)

i have a pair of lids with hole for airlocks and grommets in them.


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## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

barls said:


> i have a pair of lids with hole for airlocks and grommets in them.



Great idea for next time but I don't have any spare grommets


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## dave_h (20/1/11)

I also did not have any elastic bands when I last used a cube, I used some fine string over cling film around the thread , worked great.

If you want to use them as cubes maybe try some "plumber's tape" (not sure if thats the right name) around the thread and then put the lid on tight, should help make a good seal.


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## bcp (20/1/11)

I'm not sure which cubes you bought. Some have a rubber seal on the inside of the cap - that's what i use to seal mine with gladwrap. 

For no chill I bought the blue jerry cans - they seal airtight - but i wouldn't ferment in them.


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## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

dave_h said:


> I also did not have any elastic bands when I last used a cube, I used some fine string over cling film around the thread , worked great.
> 
> If you want to use them as cubes maybe try some "plumber's tape" (not sure if thats the right name) around the thread and then put the lid on tight, should help make a good seal.



Will look for string... will try the plumbers tape too, hadn't thought of that. Cheers!


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## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

bcp said:


> I'm not sure which cubes you bought. Some have a rubber seal on the inside of the cap - that's what i use to seal mine with gladwrap.
> 
> For no chill I bought the blue jerry cans - they seal airtight - but i wouldn't ferment in them.



I don't know the brand but they are clear with the word "WATER" embossed on one side. The caps don't have rubber in them. Would Gaffer taoe be ok to hold the glad wrap on tight until I can get to the shop? (Won't be home from work until 5ish tomorrow night)


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## Rodolphe01 (20/1/11)

Aluminium foil should also work, will press into the thread etc, it's all I use when sealing my starters.

But surely a homebrewer can think of an alternative to a rubber band ?!? :unsure: 

As for the cubes not sealing, return them, especially since you got them from Bunnings.


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## NickB (20/1/11)

I'd personally just use some Al foil. Double or triple it over, and put over the opening, squeeze around the edges etc.

Should get you through especially if fermentation has started!

Cheers


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## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

I found an elastic hair band, SWMBO won't mind if I "borrow" it right? 

The foil idea wouldn't be airtight right? Mostly a dust cover I would have thought... That's originally why I thought a poorly sealed lid would work OK.

Thanks guys

BTW Rudi, I am awful at being resourceful and anything even remotely practical when it comes to these types of things :unsure: You're right though, being a home brewer has forced me on a few occasions to pull out my tools and use my head, can only be a good thing!


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## bignath (20/1/11)

Guysmiley54 said:


> Would Gaffer taoe be ok to hold the glad wrap on tight until I can get to the shop?




Gaffer tape fixes everything! :super: 

Sorry, i'm a musician......


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## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

Big Nath said:


> Gaffer tape fixes everything! :super:
> 
> Sorry, i'm a musician......



Me too! Always have gaffer mate  What do you play?


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## bignath (20/1/11)

Guysmiley54 said:


> Me too! Always have gaffer mate  What do you play?



Drums, Guitar, Bass (in that order too!)

As well as playing out, i'm a private music teacher for a living. Not a bad job


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## Guysmiley54 (20/1/11)

Big Nath said:


> Drums, Guitar, Bass (in that order too!)
> 
> As well as playing out, i'm a private music teacher for a living. Not a bad job



Guitar/Bass/Piano/Drums in that order 

I've lived most of my career doing the same stuff that you mentioned although the last 5 years of it was spent more arranging/recording/producing than the other stuff. I own a cafe now, life changes! Music is a great life calling though, good beer makes it even better :super:


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## beerandgarden (21/1/11)

Guysmiley54 said:


> I bought 2 cubes from Bunnings not long ago to try out the NC cube technique as described on this site.



What's a cube? And what's the _NC cube technique_? I tried search to no avail, maybe someone can reply with a link to the thread.


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## husky (21/1/11)

take them back to bunnings and pay the extra $$ to get the blue willow cubes


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## argon (21/1/11)

Info for no chill. It'll change your life!!


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## Malted (21/1/11)

beerandgarden said:


> What's a cube? And what's the _NC cube technique_? I tried search to no avail, maybe someone can reply with a link to the thread.



Maybe it is a case of come in spinner, but hey I am a sucker.
This should just about cover it :No chill discussion and wiki topic LINKY

EDIT: BWA ha ha- missed it by that much! :super:


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## beerandgarden (21/1/11)

argon said:


> Info for no chill. It'll change your life!!


dunno about changing my life but interesting, thanks!


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## manticle (21/1/11)

I often ferment in cubes. I have used glad wrap and rubber band but more often I just tighten the lid, then back it off a touch so that gas can escape.

Recently I thought fermenting was nearly finished in an ESB so tightened it right up. Next day I came out to a very swollen cube so be careful if you follow the above method.

If your lid lets air in and out, it sounds as if it's perfect for fermenting as the gas will be released.


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## Guysmiley54 (21/1/11)

manticle said:


> I often ferment in cubes. I have used glad wrap and rubber band but more often I just tighten the lid, then back it off a touch so that gas can escape.
> 
> Recently I thought fermenting was nearly finished in an ESB so tightened it right up. Next day I came out to a very swollen cube so be careful if you follow the above method.
> 
> If your lid lets air in and out, it sounds as if it's perfect for fermenting as the gas will be released.



This was actually my original plan and the sort of feedback I was looking for! I ended up with Glad wrap and hairbands 

I set my temp controller to 18, pitched and went to bed. This morning my wort was under 10 as my controller was still at the temp I left it on previously to CC my last batch DOH! Any all is good on 18 now and hoping for fermentation to start (albeit a little late)


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## bignath (21/1/11)

Guysmiley54 said:


> I ended up with Glad wrap and *hairbands*




You brewing a blonde?


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## Guysmiley54 (21/1/11)

Big Nath said:


> You brewing a blonde?



You did say brewing right? B)


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## InCider (21/1/11)

I'm with Manticle on the tighten and back off technique - not for blondes though. Just cubes. Saves ginning around, and it's easy. The CO2 generated in fermentation will provide enough of a blanket of the beer, and the bugs can't get past the lid. And I too have fermented with the lid screwed tight...makes a bigger cube they say! :lol:


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## kjparker (25/1/11)

Is there any reason I shouldn't ferment in a cube?

I just picked up a bar fridge from ebay, and suspect I wont fit a traditional fermenter, but a cube should fit fine.

Also, is bunnings the cheapest place to get a cube from? I still havent put my first brew down, but I wanted to get the basics down first, by that is getting fermentation temps right, and sanitation etc.

I will just be doing kit and kilo brews to start with.


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## Bribie G (25/1/11)

I mainly use a 10 / 10 system - ten days in primary in a 'standard' fermenter, then into a cube with a tap and ten days cold conditioning at fridge temperature. Cubes make great cold conditioners as you can fill them to the top hence no air space to risk oxidisation. If you are interested in cold conditioning then use the cubes for that and get some Willows for no chill.

edit:
Clueless, for fermenting as opposed to no chilling or cold conditioning, you would do better with a Willow 25L cube 
As you can see it's squatter but fatter than the 20L (at the bottom of the page) and will give you some extra headroom for foaming.
However you don't need an airlock, just some clingwrap and a rubber band, then later as the fermentation dies down put the cap on and keep it open just a crack. 
And wash it immediately after use and give it a good dose of nappisan to nuke the residues, or buy a big bottle brush like the carboy guys use.


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## Mikedub (25/1/11)

BribieG, what does the 10 days cold conditioning do for the beer?, (I'm assuming this is for an ale, and not a lagering technique)


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## hsb (25/1/11)

clueless said:


> Is there any reason I shouldn't ferment in a cube?
> 
> I just picked up a bar fridge from ebay, and suspect I wont fit a traditional fermenter, but a cube should fit fine.
> 
> ...


People in Plastic sell cubes, no idea if cheaper than Bunnings...
http://www.peopleinplastic.com.au/

Anything that is non-porous that you can cover could be used, so a cube is definitely OK. I don't tend to because I use them for No Chill so don't want the hassle of cleaning out ferment material. 
Cleaning would be more difficult since you can't get right in there but with right cleaning product no problem whatsoever.
Just check the plastic rating is OK if you go for something unusual (I think HDPE - #4 is the ideal type?)

Cold conditioning will help drop out all the yeast and give you a brighter brew if you don't filter, that's the reason I (sometimes) use that method myself,


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## Bribie G (25/1/11)

I keg nowadays with the odd bottle kept in an archive. The cold conditioning really clears out the beer, I add gelatine at the beginning and polyclar two days before kegging and end up with crystal clear beer into the keg which is ready to drink as soon as it's carbed (two days in the case of UK ales). 
I had been considering getting a filter but I find with cold conditioning the beer is perfectly bright so I get 19L of clear beer from the first pour, not a keg that doesn't start running bright until nearly the end. Also the cold conditioning, I find, matures the beer so there's no 'green beer' flavour.


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## petesbrew (25/1/11)

thread-related Steps to my latest balls-up:
1. Stored my latest Belgian Pale Ale in a cube and sat it in the garage
2. Not worry about tiny, tiny leak from the bottom tap. It was done tight, and I squeezed all the air out.
3. Mow lawn a week later, return the used, grass covered mower & whipper snipper to the garage, 2 feet away from the cube.
4. Saturday hits, very hot temps.
5. Move cube over a few inches closer to the mower so I can get to the bar fridge easier.
6. Sunday, go out to get a screwdriver to see cube bulging at the sides, with an inch thick krausen.
7. Open lid to vent gas
8. Almost puke from the creamed corn stench.
9. Swear and cry
10. Warn wife to hold nose, carry cube to laundry and dump it.
11. Bleach the sink, Light incense & candles everywhere and have a beer to cheer myself up.


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## hsb (25/1/11)

Commiserations. Crushing to see that cube go up early. Creamed Corn doesn't sound like the wild yeast to save the day.
I don't bother with taps on my No Chill cubes but I'm guessing you might be fermenting direct from them (when you are ready, not when the whippersnipper decides)?
Otherwise they aren't really needed, tipping it all into another vessel when you're ready gives a good aeration and it's one less source for infection/failure.


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## petesbrew (25/1/11)

hsb said:


> Commiserations. Crushing to see that cube go up early. Creamed Corn doesn't sound like the wild yeast to save the day.
> I don't bother with taps on my No Chill cubes but I'm guessing you might be fermenting direct from them (when you are ready, not when the whippersnipper decides)?
> Otherwise they aren't really needed, tipping it all into another vessel when you're ready gives a good aeration and it's one less source for infection/failure.


Actually I'm wrong, it was the little taphole plug, not a tap. I just hadn't done it tight enough (obviously).
Was meant for storing, not for fermenting in... dammit.
The funny thing is, it leaked all over a 3rd place certificate that fell off the door... the very beer the recipe was based upon!


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## hsb (25/1/11)

petesbrew said:


> Actually I'm wrong, it was the little taphole plug, not a tap. I just hadn't done it tight enough (obviously).
> Was meant for storing, not for fermenting in... dammit.
> The funny thing is, it leaked all over a 3rd place certificate that fell off the door... the very beer the recipe was based upon!



 A definite sign from the brew gods there! 

I haven't lost a brew in a no chill cube yet, though I have through ferment, hope it inspires a 1st place for you.
#[email protected]%^#%^ to your taphole plug! #!$%!#$%!!


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## Bribie G (25/1/11)

One advantage of the genuine Willow cubes is that they have a tap blank but it's solid. Inside the cube it's just a smooth bulge and if you want to fit a tap you have to cut it out yourself using a small stanley knife. So if you are using the cube for no chilling and don't fit a tap, there's nowhere for nasties to hide.
I did buy a couple of these on special and they had an already-drilled tap hole. I returned them and bought Willows but for another reason, they both had pin holes in the body itself due to faulty mouldings. 





I'd avoid this brand personally


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## Hedgehog (29/10/11)

Are many of you guys fermenting in cubes? 

I can only fit one round 30ltr barrel in my fermentation fridge but I can fit two 25ltr cubes nicely.

Is there a problem with a lack of head space in the cubes? 

Also, if fermenting in cubes has anyone drilled a hole in the top of the cube and fitted a bung and airlock set up as per the usual fermentation barrel?

I am guessing cleaning wouldn't be too much of a problem if using star-san


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## manticle (29/10/11)

Unless you're brewing with a krausen monster like 3068, my experience tells me lack of headspace isn't an issue, especially with the aforementioned tighten lid then loosen a touch.

I ferment straight in the no chill cube so I pretty much fill it up with maybe 2 litres headspace once the cube is cool enough to pitch. Sometimes krausen leaks out during active ferment but I just spray it with starsan. It's not a big deal and saves transferring.

You are fermenting on top of your cold break if you use this method- something I have no issue with.


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## sluggerdog (9/11/11)

manticle said:


> Unless you're brewing with a krausen monster like 3068, my experience tells me lack of headspace isn't an issue, especially with the aforementioned tighten lid then loosen a touch.
> 
> I ferment straight in the no chill cube so I pretty much fill it up with maybe 2 litres headspace once the cube is cool enough to pitch. Sometimes krausen leaks out during active ferment but I just spray it with starsan. It's not a big deal and saves transferring.
> 
> You are fermenting on top of your cold break if you use this method- something I have no issue with.




I want to get a cube to ferment 20 litre batches in, will the 20 litre cubes be able to do this seeing there is still the handle room to allow for the krausen?

Any particular cubes recommend and where do I get them from? (NOTE: Just saw at super cheap auto - 20litre willow cubes for $24)

Thanks


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## Dazza88 (9/11/11)

I think those take 22 litres so you may ok f the situations manticle discussed above.


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## Dazza88 (9/11/11)

Hedgehog said:


> Are many of you guys fermenting in cubes?
> 
> I can only fit one round 30ltr barrel in my fermentation fridge but I can fit two 25ltr cubes nicely.
> 
> ...



Cleaning can be an issue because you need to rely on the cleaner and shaking to remove the scum ring of krausen. I use pbw soak and shake with success. Napisan would probably work, starsan wont. It is a sanitiser not a cleaner.


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## manticle (9/11/11)

Sluggerdog- I use the 20 L willow jerries in the main. If I fill to the top part of the straight edge (before the plastic curves towards the lid) then rack that into a fermenter (to measure it) I get about 22-23 litres. There's another litre or two of headspace above that.

NB: The fermenter markings may not be completely accurate as I've yet to calibrate properly. Anyway, last brew I filled my cube to the very top so it was almost leaking out the lid. Certainly there was a bit of krausen leakage but nothing untoward. I've seen scarier krausen try and climb out from a 30 L fermenter covered in glad wrap.

As far as cleaning goes - boiling water (or very hot) and napisan removes krausen scum like magic. Boil up water in your HLT and fill the cube close to the top. Put lid on properly and tightly (make absolutely sure it's on properly) and shake. It will build pressure (which is good) - you can relieve this gently after each shake. To get the scum at the top of the lid, simply upend the cube and leave it upside down. Sparkling clean cube in less than 10 minutes. Reuse the water for cleaning elsewhere and empty onto the garden when done.

Alternatives are to put some raw rice in the cube with napisan and cooler water and shake the crap out of it and/or to soak with napisan and cold water and leave for 24-48 hours. The boiling water trick is far and away the best though.


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## loikar (9/11/11)

DazDog said:


> Cleaning can be an issue because you need to rely on the cleaner and shaking to remove the scum ring of krausen. I use pbw soak and shake with success. Napisan would probably work, starsan wont. It is a sanitiser not a cleaner.



Nah. Nappisan cleans up cubes and fermenters beautifully, plus it's an antibacterial.
a couple of caps in the cube, fill them to the top, seal 'em up and walk away.

on the next brewday, 
drain them out, rinse them out, fill them with hot wort, squeeze and seal, let them chill.
Once cool, crack the seal, pitch the yeast, seal it again, then back it off.
2 weeks later, ferments complete, bottle or into the keg.

Minimal exposure to air, minimal mess.

I find no detectable off flavors by fermenting on the cold break, and I can fit 3 Jerrys in my fridge instead of 2 fermenters.

I don't think I would ever buy a proper fermenter now that's under 60L.

BF


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## hsb (9/11/11)

If you're using a No Chill cube, then directly pitching yeast into that, then how are you aerating the wort? It will be very low in O2 won't it - not a happy place for the yeasties? 
Another reason why I empty the No Chill cube to ferment in a different vessel, but the cubes themselves are totally fine to ferment in. I'd ferment in anything sanitary/non-pourous. Chuck it in the bath lol.
I prefer to keep my No Chill cubes without a tap, one less potential disaster, only one mind.


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## Maheel (9/11/11)

i made up a bit of copper pipe with just a small hole to create a water blaster i can poke inside cubes etc to blast of any scum 

rips off and cleans out 95% in seconds then the good old napisan soak then starsan re-blast if needed


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## Mayor of Mildura (9/11/11)

hsb said:


> If you're using a No Chill cube, then directly pitching yeast into that, then how are you aerating the wort? It will be very low in O2 won't it - not a happy place for the yeasties?
> Another reason why I empty the No Chill cube to ferment in a different vessel, but the cubes themselves are totally fine to ferment in. I'd ferment in anything sanitary/non-pourous. Chuck it in the bath lol.
> I prefer to keep my No Chill cubes without a tap, one less potential disaster, only one mind.


I'm with you and this is the method that I use. However I have tasted beers that are fermented in the nc cube and they have been good. Maybe the trick is to pitch a big starter or slurry from a previous batch?


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## loikar (9/11/11)

hsb said:


> If you're using a No Chill cube, then directly pitching yeast into that, then how are you aerating the wort? It will be very low in O2 won't it - not a happy place for the yeasties?



I don't see why?

When I fill my cube from the kettle, i usually drop it in from a height, then seal it up, shake the shit out of it, purge excess air and store it ready for ferment.
The O2 doesn't magically disappear in the sealed cube I expect?
it ferments just fine and the beer tastes good.

Oh, and don't even think about bringing up HSA or I will find out where you live, shit in your letterbox and wipe my arse on your cat.

BF


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## Mayor of Mildura (9/11/11)

BeerFingers said:


> wipe my arse on your cat.



Scat cat?


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## hsb (9/11/11)

BeerFingers said:


> I don't see why?
> 
> When I fill my cube from the kettle, i usually drop it in from a height, then seal it up, shake the shit out of it, purge excess air and store it ready for ferment.
> The O2 doesn't magically disappear in the sealed cube I expect?
> ...



You didn't mention you splash your wort 'from a height' into a cube, then 'shake the shit out of it', this isn't what I would call the normal No Chill method. More like a Splash, Thrash and Crash method.

I'm just a simple old - gentle transfer through tubing into the cube, then seal it up and store it.

Your advice isn't very helpful to anyone who doesn't _splash from on high_, or wasn't aware that this is your method - now we know, we're all back in a happy place.

I don't like HSA, prefer HSB, no problem there.


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## stux (9/11/11)

The other trick with the willow jerrys is to not overtighten the lid when they're hot. I've found it hard to get a good seal if you over tighten the lid... but if you just back it off a bit, then it seals fine


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## MaltyHops (9/11/11)

hsb said:


> ... If you're using a No Chill cube, then directly pitching yeast into that, then how
> are you aerating the wort? It will be very low in O2 won't it - not a happy place
> for the yeasties? ...


Simple ... keep a spare clean/sanitised cube and when ready to pitch, pour half
into the spare cube and shake the beetlejooce out of both cubes, then all into
the fermenting vessel.

T.

Thankfully I don't have a cat ... and my letterbox is in a wall.


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## loikar (9/11/11)

hsb said:


> You didn't mention you splash your wort 'from a height' into a cube, then 'shake the shit out of it', this isn't what I would call the normal No Chill method. More like a Splash, Thrash and Crash method.
> 
> I'm just a simple old - gentle transfer through tubing into the cube, then seal it up and store it.
> 
> Your advice isn't very helpful to anyone who doesn't _splash from on high_, or wasn't aware that this is your method - now we know, we're all back in a happy place.



When I say "From a height" I mean i have a hose from from the kettle tap to the top of the cube, or in my case a jerry. and then it falls to the bottom of the cube from there. I don't mean from ceiling height.
I think if you're going to ferment in your cube, then you will either get air in it while it's hot or when it's cold, the only way to do is to shake the shit out of it.
If you were to transfer into a fermenting vessel, then you can do this at the time of transfer.

Sorry if you feel it wasn't helpful, i kinda figured it was a no-brainier, how else would it happen.

I would be interested to see how others do it when fermenting in the cube.... Manticle?



hsb said:


> I don't like HSA, prefer HSB, no problem there.



Good! you have no idea how hard it is to shit cleanly in a letterbox.
the trick is to catch the cat first.

BF


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## loikar (9/11/11)

Stux said:


> The other trick with the willow jerrys is to not overtighten the lid when they're hot. I've found it hard to get a good seal if you over tighten the lid... but if you just back it off a bit, then it seals fine


+1


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## hsb (9/11/11)

Sure. I'm always in the 'whatever works for you' camp when it comes to all things homebrew.

You said, "Minimal exposure to air" but now we have clarity, it's splashed into the cube whilst hot to reintroduce air in your method.

I don't think that is the preferred method for No Chilling but ^ see my first statement 

I have actually had someone put **** in my letterbox before, turned out it was some (other) angry neighbour seeking vengeance against our neighbour for letting their dog defecate outside their house. They got the house number/letterbox wrong.

Moral of story is - check first - they cleaned up our letterbox lovely in the end, i never knew there was metal underneath all the scum!

I wouldn't ferment in there mind, not without some sanitiser.


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## manticle (9/11/11)

hsb said:


> You didn't mention you splash your wort 'from a height' into a cube, then 'shake the shit out of it', this isn't what I would call the normal No Chill method. More like a Splash, Thrash and Crash method.
> 
> I'm just a simple old - gentle transfer through tubing into the cube, then seal it up and store it.
> 
> ...



I transfer with a hose from the kettle but all it takes (as I'm sure I've typed in this thread somewhere but it may be another) is to loosen the lid off when the brew is chilled to let air in, re-tighten, then shake the cube around to agitate the wort inside.

Yeasties have been made happy enough this way to get me 2 recent firsts in vicbrew and a 4th in the nats.

Presumably other methods of aeration such as airstones could be used (never used one myself so not 100%)


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## loikar (9/11/11)

hsb said:


> Sure. I'm always in the 'whatever works for you' camp when it comes to all things homebrew.
> 
> You said, "Minimal exposure to air" but now we have clarity, it's splashed into the cube whilst hot to reintroduce air in your method.
> 
> I don't think that is the preferred method for No Chilling but ^ see my first statement



Ahhhhh, now I see where the wires crossed...... "Minimal exposure to air"
you thought air as in o2 in beer for yeast, and I was meaning air as in wild yeasts and bacteria.

splashing in the cube while it's hot makes more sense to me, it ensures that if any bacteria are floating around at the time of splashing, they are killed pretty quickly in the heat.



hsb said:


> I have actually had someone put **** in my letterbox before, turned out it was some (other) angry neighbour seeking vengeance against our neighbour for letting their dog defecate outside their house. They got the house number/letterbox wrong.
> 
> Moral of story is - check first - they cleaned up our letterbox lovely in the end, i never knew there was metal underneath all the scum!
> 
> I wouldn't ferment in there mind, not without some sanitiser.



Was your cat ok?
if it was, it wasn't me.


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## Malted (9/11/11)

I use two jerries in one fridge and don't have to worry about headspace because I run blow off tubes from them into a flask of cooled boiled water. If Krausen gets out, the water bath cools it's ardor before it attacks the fridge. I also have some alfoil over the top of the flask -a la BribieG's self top cropping.


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## jacknohe (1/12/11)

I'm looking at doing this in the new year due to fridge realestate issues. I can use my bar fridge for fermenting with a 20L jerry can. I'm just wondering how you all add finings or polyclar (or both) and if you rack to another jerry can.

Normally I add finings first then polyclar a few days later. I have racked in the past and got a little lazy and did it all in the primary but with a barrel fermenter I can take the lid off and pour the finings/polyclar reasonably evenly then give it a very gentle stir around the top two inches to even it up and let gravity and cold do the rest.

Not sure with a jerry can though. Is it enough to just pour finings/polyclar through the hole or will I have to gently rock the jerry can to get an even spread (risking oxidation)?


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## argon (1/12/11)

if you put the finings in as a hot solution the two solutions will stratify, where the hot liquid will rise to the top, spread over the entire layer of the beer, then cool and fall through the beer pretty evenly.


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## loikar (1/12/11)

jacknohe said:


> I'm looking at doing this in the new year due to fridge realestate issues. I can use my bar fridge for fermenting with a 20L jerry can. I'm just wondering how you all add finings or polyclar (or both) and if you rack to another jerry can.
> 
> Normally I add finings first then polyclar a few days later. I have racked in the past and got a little lazy and did it all in the primary but with a barrel fermenter I can take the lid off and pour the finings/polyclar reasonably evenly then give it a very gentle stir around the top two inches to even it up and let gravity and cold do the rest.
> 
> Not sure with a jerry can though. Is it enough to just pour finings/polyclar through the hole or will I have to gently rock the jerry can to get an even spread (risking oxidation)?



Do what you've always done.
you'll just be pouring it in a smaller hole.
give it a rock if you want. or rotate the entire cube to mix it up and let the yeast settle again.

oxidation?, it's not going to happen mate, not without you putting a shitload of effort trying to make it happen at least.

BF


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## loikar (1/12/11)

argon said:


> if you put the finings in as a hot solution the two solutions will stratify, where the hot liquid will rise to the top, spread over the entire layer of the beer, then cool and fall through the beer pretty evenly.



Yeah, maybe if it's a considerable amount
but 300ml of hot solution in 23L, im thinking wont maintain it's heat long enough to 'stratify'


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## iralosavic (1/12/11)

Reading through contemplating the use of a cube, but I wonder:

Can't you just feed from your boil vessle directly into your round plastic fermenter, seal her up and pop her in the fridge until it reaches pitching temp?


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## loikar (1/12/11)

iralosavic said:


> Reading through contemplating the use of a cube, but I wonder:
> 
> Can't you just feed from your boil vessle directly into your round plastic fermenter, seal her up and pop her in the fridge until it reaches pitching temp?



You can, if you're lucky.

The problem is that there's a lot of funky shit floating in the air that would bust both it's nuts just to spend a few hours in your sweet unfermented beer.
Cooling from say 95c to 20c 'naturally' takes a shitload of time. Even you chuck it in a cold fridge there's going to be enough time for some fucked out bacteria to start humping the shit out of your wort and impart flavour\take over\infect your wort.

dumping it in a cube hot, pushing all the air out and sealing it means it can cool 'naturally' and still remain sterile, or at least pasteurised.
not tipping that into a fermenter after it's cooled means less exposure to air and infection etc.

It's all about minimising risk and stacking the odds in your favour. 

BF


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## Bribie G (1/12/11)

I'm having a bet both ways and fermenting in Willow Jerries but no chilling in CB type cubes. 
BF's method obviously works for him, but I'm a keen oxygenator and can't see that I'm going to get a decent aeration fermenting in the same cube I no chilled in. There's also the small amount of hot break (not worried about cold break, love the stuff) that sinks to the bottom of the NC cube if you got a bit carrying over from the kettle.

This NC cube takes almost bang on 20L and I fill it to the top then seal.






The Willow Cube on the other hand claims 20 but actually holds 24, and the 20L mark is as you see here, so I can do just a keg sized brew and sacrifice a litre to sediment etc (most of which I'll keep anyway). Kegs will actually hold around 19 without fouling the gas in post - just B) 





Which is pretty amazing, gives ample space for krausen. I don't know how they can claim their product to be actually 20L - not that I care, it's to my advantage. Heaps of room for headspace and I can aerate the wort with one of these as it comes out of the tap on the NC cube 




Just stuck onto the end of a bottling wand and inserted down into the Willow, virtually no chance of stray nasties and it's progressively lifted as the willow fills. 

Best of both worlds - NC cube is full, aeration happens, fermenting cube has ample headspace. 
I was going to use an intermediate "aerating vessel" but too much faffing for the same result.


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## edschache (1/12/11)

Guessing the 10L Willows are also OK for no chilling. Was going to pick up 2 today but thought I better check on here first. Mainly want them for flexibility - if I'm doing a weak beer for the mates I can top up the boil and make a 30L batch, if I want to play with ingredients I can do a 10L batch, if I want to hop in the cube I can do 2 varieties on the same wort to see which I prefer.

I've got stacks of 20L Willows, will have to see if 2 will fit in my smaller fridge to fast track fermentation for Christmas.

Ed


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## iralosavic (1/12/11)

BeerFingers said:


> You can, if you're lucky.
> 
> The problem is that there's a lot of funky shit floating in the air that would bust both it's nuts just to spend a few hours in your sweet unfermented beer.
> Cooling from say 95c to 20c 'naturally' takes a shitload of time. Even you chuck it in a cold fridge there's going to be enough time for some fucked out bacteria to start humping the shit out of your wort and impart flavour\take over\infect your wort.
> ...



I like you're style. 

So basically, the biggest difference is the ability to purge oxygen from the headspace of the cube vs simply sealing it in with the pail style fermenter?


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## Bribie G (1/12/11)

:icon_offtopic: I've got a 10L which I just use as a RO water collector when I'm doing a batch of RO for a special brew - I can't even remember why I bought the bloody thing, it was really cheap from Bunnings. However it has often occurred to me that two 10L cubes would have a far bigger surface to volume ratio than one 20L cube, and if used to nochill a standard batch, then they would cool down a lot quicker, as well as being easier to handle: could be floated in the bath etc etc. and I bet you could brew in the morning and pitch in the afternoon by splitting the nochill into two smaller cubes.


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