# How Do I Stop The Ldme Clumping?



## dagwood (3/8/07)

Hi Folks,

I've just moved from strict K&K, to using LDME and chocolate malt.

I'm pretty sure theres a fundamental problem with my procedure, and would like to hear what I should be doing.

I bought some chocolate malt from the guy at the LHBS, and he said I should use 250gm per batch. He said I should put it in a saucepan with 2 liters of water, and slowly bring to the boil. Once it has started boiling, take it off the heat, and let it rest for 20 minutes.

I should then strain it into the fermenter, with the kit, 1kg of dextrose, and 500gm of LDME.

This is where I run into problems. The malt clumps terribly, and it takes me ages (and lots more water), to break the clumps up.

Any ideas on a better way to do the brew?

Any suggestions appreciated.


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## oldbugman (3/8/07)

heat choc malt to 65ish deg C let sit for 15-30mins in ~1 litre of water

strains grain out. add a little more water and add LDME disolve then add to fermenter.




though back in my K+K days I used to add ~2L of boiling water to fermenter and then add DME and pick it up and swirl it like crazy till it was disolved. better than trying to stirr it


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## Keith the Beer Guy (3/8/07)

dagwood said:


> This is where I run into problems. The malt clumps terribly, and it takes me ages (and lots more water), to break the clumps up.
> 
> Any ideas on a better way to do the brew?
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.


One tip many people give to stop DME clumping is to dissolve it in _cold _ water. Get a bowl, put some cold water in it, add DME while stirring.

OldBugman's method for using the chocolate malt is better than the other advice you've been given to date.

If you're keen you can take it a bit further. Steep the grains as per OldBugman's direction then bring the liquid to boil, take it off the heat add your DME and dextrose, bring it back to the boil and after the mad foaming stops (i.e. the hotbreak has formed) force cool in a sink and pour it into your fermenter leaving the crap behind.

Btw, if you can't get DME to dissolve it's not the end of the world. I have found the action of the fermentation process will result it in dissolving as it goes along. If this happens your OG reading will be screwed, but the beer will still be fine.

Happy Brewing,

Keith


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## deebee (3/8/07)

If you are steeping grains like this, you MUST boil the liquor, either while the grains are in the water or, preferably, after you have strained out the grains. Otherwise you are GUARANTEED an infection every time or your money back.


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## Enerjex (3/8/07)

I find the dried malt extract dissolves fully after it has been boiled for a few minutes. as has been mentioned here the steeping method you were told probably isn't the best. As mentioned bring 1 litre up to 66-68c, put the chocolate malt in and let it sit for 30 mins with the heat off (put lid on to keep heat in). strain out the grain, add another litre or 2 of water and bring to the boil. take it off the heat and add your dextrose and dried malt extract. Stir in as best you can and continue stirring as you bring it to the boil to avoid any burning to the bottom of your pot. Once it's boiling adjust your stove so it sits ona nice rolling boil for 10-15 mins and it will be sterile, and clump free. Add this to your fermenter and dissolve in your kit and top up with water.


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## Goat (4/8/07)

I'm not too sure of this, but is it the type of DME you use? The olny time i have experinced clumping was with a DME that was a very fine powder. Most of the stuff i use is slightly more granular and it dissolves very easily in water. It might be worth trying a different type.


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## Enerjex (4/8/07)

that's a good point goat. when i've used the bintani it's clumped a little but no real problem. the worst one i used and won't use it again is coopers dried malt extract, it's too powdery, it goes everwhere when you're trying to weigh it and pour it, and it clumps awfully.


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## Thunderlips (4/8/07)

Goat said:


> I'm not too sure of this, but is it the type of DME you use? The olny time i have experinced clumping was with a DME that was a very fine powder.


I've also found this to be true. I have no problem with the DME I get from Grain&Grape but the Coopers stuff clumps up every time. It'll also blow away in the wind if you happen to brew in an open area.
Still, the Coopers malt is good stuff and it breaks down over the ferment anyway.
I still prefer to use the G&G DME though. According to their website the brand they sell is "Extramalt".
Other brands I've heard of are Maltexo and Bintani but I'm not sure if I've I've ever used them.


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## Enerjex (4/8/07)

the stuff i got from grain and grape was bintani, maybe it's labled differently or something.


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## Tyred (4/8/07)

Bintani malt is extra malt. I bought some in bulk and that was on the packaging.

I've never really had any problems with DME dissolving.


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## matt white (4/8/07)

Add one cupful/spoonful etc to the liquor at once. I do all dry extract beers ie up to 4.5 kgs per brew and adding it slowly whilst stirring does the trick. Make sure to be outside and bring it back to the boil afterwards. Coopers cheap stuff does it the worst so I buy 20kg bulk Morgans DME and it seems to be better.

To change the subject slightly, I also only boil the hops and add the dme at the end once bittering, flavour and arome hops are done.


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## Thunderlips (4/8/07)

> Bintani malt is extra malt. I bought some in bulk and that was on the packaging.


Ah, didn't know that.



> I've never really had any problems with DME dissolving.


Me either. I normally use cold water when initially mixing and have found that hot water greatly effects clumping. That's been my experience anyway.


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## Keith the Beer Guy (4/8/07)

Tyred said:


> Bintani malt is extra malt. I bought some in bulk and that was on the packaging.





Thunderlips said:


> Ah, didn't know that.


Sure is wasn't extra _light _ malt guys?

Just curious.

K.


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## Thunderlips (4/8/07)

Keith the Beer Guy said:


> Sure is wasn't extra _light _ malt guys?


Nah, even the dark malt that G&G sell is called "extramalt".
It must be like Tyred said and is a Bintani brand name.


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## Darren (4/8/07)

I am probably wrong but Bintani malt is confectionary, not beer malt and hence less fermentable.

cheers

Darren


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## PostModern (4/8/07)

Darren said:


> I am probably wrong but Bintani malt is confectionary, not beer malt and hence less fermentable.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



yeah, wrong. Bintani DME is brought in for the beer market. I brewed extract beers with it for 4 years. No issues at all. FG was generally a little high compared to my 64C mashed brews of late, but no worse than Coopers LME.


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## Darren (4/8/07)

Brought in for the beer market, but is it made for beer? Made by Nestle is what I heard.

cheers

Darren


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## InCider (4/8/07)

Go all-grain? h34r: 

InCider


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## Darren (4/8/07)

Incider,

Best advice yet for this thread :beer: 


cheers

Darren


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## Thunderlips (4/8/07)

Darren said:


> I am probably wrong but Bintani malt is confectionary, not beer malt and hence less fermentable.


I'm not sure but their website also mentions that they supply "yeast, malt, hops and various adjuncts and process aids for brewers".
But then it says "We also supply the finest Swiss dried malt extract for food and beverage manufacturers" and Nestle are Swiss aren't they?


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## matti (4/8/07)

Never had problems with dry malt clumping together.

those kit enhancers contains Malto dextrine which can clump together quiter badly.

Those kit enhancers need to be added to simmering water and stirred while added




> I'm not sure but their website also mentions that they supply "yeast, malt, hops and various adjuncts and process aids for brewers".



More likely fat banker from PB foods. The stock can only be bought on wall street and that Asian stockmarket.

Die Nestles 

go Bestfood/unilever


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## Back Yard Brewer (4/8/07)

InCider said:


> Go all-grain? h34r:
> 
> InCider



Is this a AG thread or an KK thread? <_< My apologies for any offence.


BYB


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## dagwood (17/8/07)

Keith the Beer Guy said:


> If you're keen you can take it a bit further. Steep the grains as per OldBugman's direction then bring the liquid to boil, take it off the heat add your DME and dextrose, bring it back to the boil and after the mad foaming stops (i.e. the hotbreak has formed) force cool in a sink and pour it into your fermenter leaving the crap behind.
> Keith




Could someone please tell me more about the hot break? I've read references to it a few times, but am still not sure exactly what it is.

I tried force cooling (put the pot in a sink with cold water and ice), and the liquid on top was slightly thicker. Is this the hot break? If so, how do I avoid pouring it into the fermenter? Strain it?

For reference, yes, I was using the Coopers light dry malt. I'm going to buy a 20kg bag of decent malt from the LHBS shortly.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far guys, I've got some excellent information from this site.


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## 65bellett (21/8/07)

I just use my Stab Blender and have never had a problem with clumping.


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## ozpowell (21/8/07)

dagwood said:


> Could someone please tell me more about the hot break? I've read references to it a few times, but am still not sure exactly what it is.
> 
> I tried force cooling (put the pot in a sink with cold water and ice), and the liquid on top was slightly thicker. Is this the hot break? If so, how do I avoid pouring it into the fermenter? Strain it?
> 
> ...


Hey Dagwood,

This thread contains a good overview of hot break.

You will know hot break when you see it - it looks like long strands of goo in your boil. When you cool your wort, your hot break and cold break material both settle to the bottom of your pot - so what you're referring to above isn't break material.

Cheers,
Michael.


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## Jaeger (25/8/07)

Cold water and swirling works for me. The stream from hot water causes the malt to stick to the bag, and could run the risk of oxidisation tainting the flavour?


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## tangent (25/8/07)

you don't get hot or cold break using extract


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