# Boy Dies From Drinking Homebrew Ouzo



## KingPython (4/8/08)

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24123891-1246,00.html

I guess they'll be a real possibility that all home brewing (legal and illegal) will be looked at more closely.


----------



## devo (4/8/08)

unfortunately the dreaded homebrew will become the scape goat rather than raise any questions as to why an unsupervised party of 60 teens occurred. <_<


----------



## Barley Belly (4/8/08)

Two bottles of homebrewed Ouzo


----------



## KingPython (4/8/08)

devo said:


> unfortunately the dreaded homebrew will become the scape goat rather than raise any questions as to why an unsupervised party of 60 teens occurred. <_<


There are a number of issues that could be addressed but I have feeling taxes on homebrew materials will be first raised.


----------



## goomboogo (4/8/08)

A friend Jessica Beveridge, 17, said Daryl had been drinking at the party when he "got into some home-brew ouzo". 

"He sculled the first bottle and then some people were egging him on to scull the next one," Jessica said. 

Assuming the bottles were 700ml, he has already been drinking and then downs 2 bottles of spirits in quick time. It is stating the obvious but the harm caused is not the result of source but the result of quantity. It would make little difference if it was commercially made spirit - drinking that amount in that time is going to put a person at risk of serious injury.

There is a real possibility for a witchhunt to ensue regarding the source of the alcohol and we will be bombarded with all manner of ill-informed opinion from the man in the street right through to the elected legislators. The great tradgedy is amongst the calls for crackdowns, tighter policing and more fervent regulation the death of a young man will be pushed to the background.

Although the alcohol in focus is a spirit, the potential ramifications are relevant to those who make their own beer. There is still a widely held misconception that home made beer is all ultra-strong, super poor quality and has the potential to do harm to consumers even in small quantities. As Kingpython pointed out, even legal homebrewing can be drawn into these debates.

What was the outcome of the last governemet intitiative to tackle binge drinking? Increase taxation, and that was it. It may seem a long bow to draw but what next - an excise on all raw ingredients that could possibly be used in the production of alcoholic beverages as though it was already alcohol? We think grain and hop prices are high now, what could they be if the revenue raisers really get going.


----------



## reviled (4/8/08)

So im guessing that this is why distilling alcohol is illegal in Aussie?


----------



## KingPython (4/8/08)

Somehow I imagine the $15 makes 23L of full strength beer argument is going to get tossed around a lot.


----------



## barry2 (4/8/08)

This sad event may encourage some journalists and do-gooders to get some publicity for themselves by attempting to turn the spotlight on the homebrewing industry.This may lead to calls for"the guvnment to do something" which may result in yet another enquiry.
Someone I know ( a nondrinking Methodist) told me over a year ago that a elderly friend of his had suffered progressively worse health from the time he started homebrewing of beer.His friend subsequently died.We will never know whether the homebrew contributed in any way to his death .However his friend thinks so and if there is a beatup of the event perhaps he may write a letter to a newspaper.
The local ABC radio station Brisbane 612 has a morning phone in program and the woman running it has just commented on the event and asked people for comments and suggestions on what can be done .


----------



## Tseay (4/8/08)

I think if I was a HBS I'd be looking at reducing my reliance on distilling equipment and materials. A crackdown on the retailing of stills etc has been long overdue and this tragic event will provide the opportunity for interested parties ( manufacturers, temperance groups etc) to urge government action. Sadly this event will also reflect badly on beer brewing. The sooner the craft adopts another term in place of "homebrew" and all its connoctations. the better.


----------



## PostModern (4/8/08)

barry3 said:


> Someone I know ( a nondrinking Methodist)



The core of the temperance movement. It's the teetotalers vs Raise the Bar.


----------



## wabster (4/8/08)

We know you can't legislate against bloody stupidity, but it sure can be taxed! Look at pokies and lotteries  

As others have said, watch the do-gooders, already successful against smoking, launch themselves with renewed frenzy into home brewing and distilling at all levels. 

Surely the New Zealand model is a perfect example of sensible legislation. I recall that all distilling systems available at the time home distillation was legalised, were checked, and the output produced if simple instructions were followed, verified as safe. 

I've got an old school mate that lives over there and is a school principal. He enjoys making great liqueurs and fruit based drinks and shares with many others at a social level. All the staff love it and their social occasions are legendary.

Anyway that won't stop the rabid anti-grog lobby firing up, Cheerz Wab


----------



## bradmcm (4/8/08)

It all depends which way Media Mike Rann wants to spin it. At this stage it is looking like he is concentrating on the binge drinking angle as that media story has been in the media for a while now especially with the alcopop tax increase.

It may not have been a home still, it might have been the old Hoyt's essence homebrew. I'm sure we will find out more.


----------



## wakkatoo (4/8/08)

sad to hear.

Its a tragedy but at least it happened in SA. By that I mean if the focus turns to Homebrew Beer, then at least a larger company such as Coopers may step in to defend the hobby. If it had happened in another state then that may not occur. 

As goomboogoo said, the focus needs to be on the fact that the kid sculled close to a litre and a half of spirit. Doesn't matter where it comes from, that kinda action is always gonna have a bad outcome.

Hell, it might even put the focus back on why the alcopops tax was such a stupid idea in that it drives these idiots away from the girlie drinks and more to the bottles of hard liqor.

Call me old fashioned (although I'm 29!) but what the hell was a 15yo doing at a party unsupervised (presumably) with alcohol around?? Wasn't being haeld at the Worthington household by any chance?!

Back in my day......... :huh:


----------



## petesbrew (4/8/08)

A true candidate for this year's Darwin Awards.
I wonder if his friends learn from this? Probably not.


----------



## Interloper (4/8/08)

King Python said:


> Somehow I imagine the $15 makes 23L of full strength beer argument is going to get tossed around a lot.


Geez, what are you? made of money?  If you were a really desperate teenager looking for cheap beer you could do 23L of homebrand draft+2KG of homebrand sugar and make a double strength brew for about $8

(Would I drink it? No.... but I wouldn't skull 2 bottles of ouzo either!)


----------



## jojai (4/8/08)

It comes down the parents, if a kid has the equipment at home to make Ouzo and him making Ouzo at home goes unnoticed then 60 kids (that must be just about everyone children in the town, Peterborough isn't very large) are allowed to party, where the hell are the parents? I know it's common practice for parents to buy their underage kids alcohol, well it was where I lived, but at least all the parties I ever went to were supervised and with my mum, a 6-pack in a night was the absolute limit and usually 3 was all she let me take to a party. 

I don't think this will necessarily change anything for beer brewers though, spirits are illegal already so a major crackdown is what's needed or perhaps like someone else said, approaching it from a different angle and just making sure it is all safe. (You don't even have to be 18 to buy home brew kits / stills, that would be a logical step to take). 

Fingers crossed nothing bad happens. And I hope the parents are having a long hard contemplation session as to how this can be avoided in the future.


----------



## geoffi (4/8/08)

Good thing this didn't happen in NSW. With an unbearable government and an unelectable opposition both constantly sniffing around for stories to beat-up into 'law and order' scare campaigns, this tale of leglessness would probably have legs.

Meanwhile, how many kids will die this year in piles of twisted metal and plastic? 100? 200? 300? More?


----------



## geoffi (4/8/08)

Oh, and how many kids will die this year because they drank two bottles of 'legal' spirits? Quite a few, I'd guess.


----------



## amiddler (4/8/08)

petesbrew said:


> A true candidate for this year's Darwin Awards.
> I wonder if his friends learn from this? Probably not.



Unfortunately I have been in crowds like this myself and to Daryl's friends he will die a hero. Not one of them will put the connection together that they helped him to die by egging him on. "Oh I didn't hold the bottle for him" but peer pressure is a very powerful tool. It the eyes of these young people It will always be some body else's fault and I fear the end of home brew as we know it if the Government and Media pick it as the scape goat.

At the end of the News.com column there was a link to the Adelaide Now website (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006301,00.html) and I urge the people that didn't read it to have a look. This columnist focuses more on "What were these children doing with that much alcohol?" and less about the Ouzo being home made.

Quote from column:
{Drug and Alcohol Services SA executive director Keith Evans urged others to learn from the tragedy."We unfortunately have a culture among many young people to drink to get drunk and many people believe the more you drink, the more popular you will be," he said.

"But there is no way that someone as young as 15 should be consuming alcohol in these amounts and we need to get that message across."}

If more people can see and agree with the view of Keith Evans then we may be able to keep brewing with out new laws and taxes that will cripple our beloved hobby.

Drew


----------



## trevc (4/8/08)

> (You don't even have to be 18 to buy home brew kits / stills, that would be a logical step to take).



Fairly tough to control sales of such basic ingredients. Distillation is also very easy in the kitchen, no welding required (stockpot, wok, metal bowl, ice.. done!)
I found it quite amusing as a young teen to ferment sugar water with baking yeast. It was pretty nasty, but certainly made strong alcohol. If somebody wants to hurt themselves with kitchen ingredients, they easily can.

My parents had always allowed me to drink beer/wine in smaller quantities when I was younger. This was likely why I ended up more responsible than others, and never over did it (too badly). I think it's a good idea for parents to carefully introduce their children to alcohol in a social setting, before others do.

This Ouzo kid was obviously not very bright, had issues of some sort, or was never properly introduced to alcohol (and it's potential dangers). Drinking that quantity of spirits so quickly is not normal for any teen/person.


----------



## Andyd (4/8/08)

There are many arguments that can be used to point out that any form of regulatory or legislative interference with the hobby arising from this incident would be inappropriate, as has been pointed out here. Most of these have been highlighted in previous posts.

The key issue is not about "a message" or anything like that. The real issue is that it is the responsibility of every adult who has an impact on the education of these kids to help them understand the effects that alcohol has on them. This needs more than just "a message". 

It needs parents to set a good example of how alcohol can be enjoyed sensibly. 
It needs teachers to help the kids understand the physical effects that alcohol can have on the body. 
It needs the teachers to help the kids understand that by setting up challenges that stretch the limits of the body (whether related to alcohol consumption or to physical feats), they may be contributing directly to the death of one of their close mates.

There is so much more at fault here than the alcohol that was consumed. As has been pointed out, the poor boy could have been drinking commercial grade vodka, ouzo or any liquor with an extreme alcohol content and the effect would most likely have been the same.

It is a tragic loss for the boys family, and justice would not be done if the focus remained on the fact that home-brewed ouzo was the source of the alcohol.

Andy


----------



## mouapp12 (4/8/08)

Interloper said:


> Geez, what are you? made of money?  If you were a really desperate teenager looking for cheap beer you could do 23L of homebrand draft+2KG of homebrand sugar and make a double strength brew for about $8
> 
> (Would I drink it? No.... but I wouldn't skull 2 bottles of ouzo either!)


but that $8 beer gets you around 140 standard drinks, where as $8 of homemade vodka is around 370 standards (i think)

the sad thing is most schools have drug/alcohol awareness programs but im still telling my friends basic stuff like what a standard drink is, i don't think most people retain anything about them


----------



## white.grant (4/8/08)

Can't get passed the fact that sculling Ouzo is a pretty sad way to die, reminds me of "metho drinker" by Judith Wright, which ends

"It was for Death he took her; death is but this;
and yet he is uneasy under her kiss
and winces from that acid of her desire. "


----------



## bigholty (4/8/08)

I have heard of people making so-called home-made ouzo by purchasing large bottles of liquorice or aniseed flavouring essence and then adding a quantity of sugar solution to bring it to a palatable state. Some flavouring essences are actually quite high in ethanol content (as much as 30%). The essences are able to be purchased by under-age people, and are often cheaper than booze as they aren't sold or taxed as an alcoholic beverage. I would like to know whether the ouzo this young bloke drank was of this sort, or whether it was in fact produced as we all assume, through home distillation and addition of flavouring.


----------



## stowaway (4/8/08)

I dont fear this being the end of the homebrew at all.
its always been illegal to brew over 15% ?? right?

Homebrewing beer is completely different to homebrewing spirits.


----------



## geoffi (4/8/08)

stowaway said:


> I dont fear this being the end of the homebrew at all.
> its always been illegal to brew over 15% ?? right?
> 
> Homebrewing beer is completely different to homebrewing spirits.




Yes indeed. But the takeaway quote from this that most people will get is 'homebrew ouzo'. Facts? The tabloid media and manipulative politicians need no stinking facts!

I have to admit, though, I've always found it odd that theoretically anybody old enough to present the money can buy home-brewing or even distilling gear. I guess the thing that's stopped this from becoming an issue is that most kids are too utterly bone lazy to go to the effort of making their own. Mind you, maybe this publicity will result in a boom in sales to under-agers.


----------



## petesbrew (4/8/08)

Geoffi said:


> Yes indeed. But the takeaway quote from this that most people will get is 'homebrew ouzo'. Facts? The tabloid media and manipulative politicians need no stinking facts!
> 
> I have to admit, though, I've always found it odd that theoretically anybody old enough to present the money can buy home-brewing or even distilling gear. I guess the thing that's stopped this from becoming an issue is that most kids are too utterly bone lazy to go to the effort of making their own. Mind you, maybe this publicity will result in a boom in sales to under-agers.


Awesome, more people on AHB! I guess we'd better start looking out for posts from all the Corey's and Emo's like, "parents heading away this weekend= party time! Now, how quickly can I make a TED?"


----------



## Interloper (4/8/08)

petesbrew said:


> Now, how quickly can I make a TED?"



TED? what's a TED?


----------



## microbe (4/8/08)

Tooheys Extra Dry?? perhaps


----------



## Bribie G (4/8/08)

Interloper said:


> Geez, what are you? made of money?  If you were a really desperate teenager looking for cheap beer you could do 23L of homebrand draft+2KG of homebrand sugar and make a double strength brew for about $8



Back in May when the alcopop frenzy was on, I was actually mostly a wine drinker and preferred the lighter cask wines rather than the 13.5% bottles. There was a suggestion (and still going the rounds) that all alcohol should be taxed equally and this would put casks up to forty bucks each and totally end the business. So I thought "bugger them" and bought fermenter number one, three kilos of sugar, some ginger, yeast nutrient and a sparkling wine yeast. Ran up 25 litres of ginger beer which I boosted with Bundberg Ginger Beer cordial and it actually turned out quite nice for about seven dollars plus the cordial.

Then I thought... mmmm a Coopers stout would be nice... then I found this forum, bought three more fermenters, and the rest is history   

On a sober note, friend of mine years ago tried to commit suicide by skulling two bottles of vodka, it was a good brand apparently and he nearly died, they helicoptered him to Redcliffe hospital and pumped him full of charcoal and it was hit or miss for a while. So it doesn't matter if it's home brewed or not.


----------



## Fents (4/8/08)

bigh said:


> I have heard of people making so-called home-made ouzo by purchasing large bottles of liquorice or aniseed flavouring essence and then adding a quantity of sugar solution to bring it to a palatable state. Some flavouring essences are actually quite high in ethanol content (as much as 30%). The essences are able to be purchased by under-age people, and are often cheaper than booze as they aren't sold or taxed as an alcoholic beverage. I would like to know whether the ouzo this young bloke drank was of this sort, or whether it was in fact produced as we all assume, through home distillation and addition of flavouring.



does it really matter how it was made? who cares if it was home brewed / distilled, brought from a shop. Point is the kid necked 2 bottles of very potent alcohol and died as a result.


----------



## KingPython (4/8/08)

I remember a few years ago in Melton a boy died of Vodka essense overdose and I'm quite sure that a few laws were changed to try and stop it from happening again. Maybe it was a Victoria only thing?

The two issues that are brought by home distilled ouzo is easy access and cost but as said before this could of happened with store brought alcohol. At 15 he would of not known any better probably drank the first bottle didn't feel anything and went in with the second.


----------



## QldKev (4/8/08)

Lets face it, 16 year olds generally are not the ones making homebrew. Taxing homebrew will just cost more for the parents. Maybe the peers that pressured the drinking should also be on criminal charges? Put the responsibility back where it belongs.

QldKev


----------



## Adamt (4/8/08)

I feel sorry for the poor kid, 16, and got peer pressured into drinking. Obviously, drinking 2 bottles of ouzo isn't a great idea, I'm sure he knew that, but peer pressure does make you do some crazy things if you're not one of the more popular kids.

The way I see it, the more of these stories the better. Teaching about safe drinking in school hasn't worked for years, certainly didn't work with my generation (~7 years ago) and obviously isn't working now. Underage drinking will never go away but stories like this hopefully prevent idiotic acts like this in the future.


----------



## Brewtus (4/8/08)

jojai said:


> You don't even have to be 18 to buy home brew kits / stills, that would be a logical step to take).


 Followed by an age limit on hops, Saunders malt extract, tandaco yeast, sugar, golden syrup, honey, fruit juice, grapes, apples .....it is all just a logical step.

Note than it seems none of his friends saw the danger signs and did not know what to do as "her brother and others put Daryl into a car after he had passed out at the party and drove him to her parents' house where they called an ambulance." They may not have saved him whatever they did but it makes me wonder if better first aid will be an outcome of this sad event.


----------



## Muggus (4/8/08)

I found it a bit odd that it was Ouzo of all things. Not exactly one of those common spirits, and nor is it a favourite of young people.
Regardless, 2 bottles of the stuff in short succession, surely you'd think someone would've known better, even if they were young.


----------



## Mercs Own (4/8/08)

Dont kids die from petrol sniffing and that only costs $1.60 a litre?!

Man it is too sad and too stupid!! Andy said it well but left one thing out government education. Really the main point is education from every quarter. I cant believe that the kids egging him on thought it was a good thinkg and for that they are all responsible but why did they not realise it was a stupid thing why did know one step in and stop it?? Education. Why was there a party (underage) with alcohol and no parent surpervision. 

I disagree with the alcpop tax because it is not going to stop binge drinking or irresponsible drinking I think the only thing that may make an impact is education on all fronts. Real TV commercials, real education at a school level, real education aimed at parents (how did he think it was a good idea, why didnt he know it wasnt) to make sure they get the message and pass it on to their kids.

Yes if we take away alcohol from society then we will never have this happen again and then if we take cars away we will not suffer road fatalities either but that is not an answer as we all know. The answer is education starting at home, aimed at the family and reinforced by schools and government. It doesnt help when you have football heros crashing their car and being three times over the limit nor your so called mates egging you on at a party all in the name of a bit of fun.

The worst part of it with the alcopop tax is how much of that money collected is actually going to really truly and honestly go into education regarding the dangers of binge drinking?


----------



## Franko (4/8/08)

I feel sorry for the family but ,

quote from the article:"He sculled the first bottle and then some people were egging him on to scull the next one,"

You've just got to say *What an idiot*


----------



## oldbugman (4/8/08)

petesbrew said:


> A true candidate for this year's Darwin Awards.
> I wonder if his friends learn from this? Probably not.




I wonder if there will be ouzo at his wake.


----------



## trevc (4/8/08)

OldBugman said:


> I wonder if there will be ouzo at his wake.



Two bottles per table


----------



## beersatan (4/8/08)

Brewtus said:


> Note than it seems none of his friends saw the danger signs and did not know what to do as "her brother and others put Daryl into a car after he had passed out at the party and drove him to her parents' house where they called an ambulance." They may not have saved him whatever they did but it makes me wonder if better first aid will be an outcome of this sad event.



Everyone has jumped onto this story but I'm wondering is news.com.au real??
Jessica *BEVERIDGE* said, "her brother and others put Daryl into a car" and drove after all this? Was he drinking *ALL* of the alcohol? I'm not happy that someone has died but man...
Maybe that Corey kid should start up a franchise business like Jim's mowing to organize proper out of control parties. 

Maybe the government should tackle the media to stop stories like these getting to the public to upset parents and homebrewers alike. A story like this probably won't even register on the likely candidates for a similar occurence and if anything promote it.

Very sad in many ways...


----------



## spog (4/8/08)

Mercs Own said:


> Dont kids die from petrol sniffing and that only costs $1.60 a litre?!
> 
> Man it is too sad and too stupid!! Andy said it well but left one thing out government education. Really the main point is education from every quarter. I cant believe that the kids egging him on thought it was a good thinkg and for that they are all responsible but why did they not realise it was a stupid thing why did know one step in and stop it?? Education. Why was there a party (underage) with alcohol and no parent surpervision.
> 
> ...


heaps of kids have now been educated because of this sad act of stupidity,you/me/we can go on and on about educating kids about the dangers out there but people will binge drink,drink drive,speed,play silly buggers with guns et c.
but someone will always end up a statistic.....sadly........cheers.....spog.....


----------



## schooey (4/8/08)

beersatan said:


> Maybe the government should tackle the media to stop stories like these getting to the public to upset parents and homebrewers alike. A story like this probably won't even register on the likely candidates for a similar occurence and if anything promote it.



I agree, it's bloody sad... my kids aren't of that age yet, and I really hope that when they are that as parents my wife and I have equipped them with the right tools to deal with this kind of scenario. I always ask where the hell were the parents?

On the media thing though, I think its maybe a good thing to let them get as much milage as they can from it... If some of the ones that will learn from someone else's mistakes are listening, thats a good thing. Sadly it takes peer pressure for someone to die, but also seeing a peer die to make you realise that you aren't bullet proof. If others see it and shrug it off, I guess that's just natural selection at work.


----------



## mwd (4/8/08)

OldBugman said:


> I wonder if there will be ouzo at his wake.



Only If he was of Greek heritage then bring on the Raki


----------



## Parks (4/8/08)

stowaway said:


> I dont fear this being the end of the homebrew at all.
> its always been illegal to brew over 15% ?? right?
> 
> Homebrewing beer is completely different to homebrewing spirits.



As far as I was aware it doesn't matter the percentage, it is simply illegal to distill spirits or own a still over 5L (of which they classify as a water purifier / essential essence maker).

I believe that is because you can make any percentage alchohol you want with a still, but moreso because the government makes so much money on the tax they don't want you to do it...


----------



## Parks (4/8/08)

I must admit in my reading the article I didn't find one reference in regard to 'where did they get the spirit' etc - it was more about 'he had a bottle, then drank another one...'

Maybe they're keeping the witch hunt under wraps so they can catch the 'evil-homebrewer' red handed...


----------



## Weizguy (4/8/08)

OldBugman said:


> I wonder if there will be ouzo at his wake.


You guys are missing the point here.
A life has been lost.
A testament has been made to Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest, where the lesser fit are eliminated.
The boy didn't have the common sense to stop himself. His time was up. It might have happened last weekend, but he's probably come close before, and it would have happened eventually, but soon.

No disrespect to the life of this boy, but it was time for him to go.

Now drop this topic and get back to beer.

Seth


----------



## mwd (4/8/08)

A sad fact of life. The country is just full of idiots. Just seems to be brought to our attention more every day.

And the majority of idiots blame some other idiot.

Shame they cannot take responsibilty for their own actions.

Agree get back to the beer. Leave all the idiots to self destruction.

But this stupidity usually ends up affecting all other sensible people like it or not.


----------



## Brewtus (4/8/08)

Parks said:


> I believe that is because you can make any percentage alcohol you want with a still, but moreso because the government makes so much money on the tax they don't want you to do it...


I think it might be a left over from the attempt to undermine the NSW Rum Corp, the fore-fathers of the NSW Police. The Governor at the time opened Govt owned breweries and made making rum without a license illegal.


----------



## BenH (4/8/08)

bigh said:


> I have heard of people making so-called home-made ouzo by purchasing large bottles of liquorice or aniseed flavouring essence and then adding a quantity of sugar solution to bring it to a palatable state. Some flavouring essences are actually quite high in ethanol content (as much as 30%). The essences are able to be purchased by under-age people, and are often cheaper than booze as they aren't sold or taxed as an alcoholic beverage.



Erm, yep. Guilty, your honour.

I vaguely remember one night where I had too much of the stuff, plus some of the folks red wine. Painted the side of the shed and the lounge room floor, and the hangover lasted 2 days.

Lesson learned. I still find the smell of ouzo and sambuca churns my stomach!


----------



## sponge (5/8/08)

Well say it was just 2 bottles of standard strength ouzo... thats a little over 40 standard drinks if im not mistaken


and 40 drinks in ahhh... what, 10 minutes?? Plus the drinks hed already been having

so at least 45 drinks in lets say, an hour or two

hardly able to put any blame on homebrew...


----------



## gerald (5/8/08)

Drew said:


> Unfortunately I have been in crowds like this myself and to Daryl's friends he will die a hero. Not one of them will put the connection together that they helped him to die by egging him on. "Oh I didn't hold the bottle for him" but peer pressure is a very powerful tool. It the eyes of these young people It will always be some body else's fault and I fear the end of home brew as we know it if the Government and Media pick it as the scape goat.



I dont know about you but ive had some scary incidents with some friends of mine getting too drunk and no one treats them like a hero and everyone feels responsible afterwards knowing we could have stopped them or slowed them down etc... Even now, being over the legal age my friends and i will always look out for each other at parties and when we are out in town. When i was 15, if any of my friends had got that drunk then we would have helped them out and made sure they were ok and definitly not have glorified the stupid decisions they made. 

A kid i knew and went to highschool with recently died, he was 4 years bellow me and always seemed a little troubled. I travelled to south africa with him 3 years ago and so i guess i knew him better than some other. I found out recently he killed himself and even though i know i probably couldnt have done anything having not seen him in 20+ months, i felt somewhat guilty. If the kids who were pressuring him dont feel any guilt then they are complete *ucktards and one day, they will feel remorse because they know they contributed to a young mans death.

maybe i just hang with people who have a consciouns


----------



## trevc (5/8/08)

My first experience with alcohol was sculling around 4-5 shots of my parents Sambuca in one glass. I wasn't sick, but realised very quickly that the stuff was basically poison.

My parents were disappointed because I had been sneaky and essentially stolen from them, not because I was drinking. From that point on they slowly introduced me to beer and wine. They taught me how to drink responsibly. 

I'm not sure of Australian laws, but in Canada minors can drink or order any alcohol if they're with their parents/legal guardians.


----------



## geoffi (5/8/08)

trevc said:


> I'm not sure of Australian laws, but in Canada minors can drink or order any alcohol if they're with their parents/legal guardians.



Ordering an alcoholic drink for your child at a restaurant in Australia might land you in the slammer.

Funny thing is, I spent a couple of years in Canada as a young'n. My fanatically teetotal parents always held up Canada as a shining light of temperance compared to bacchanalian Australia. When I went back there some years ago, I was moderately surprised to find that alcoholic beverages were actually sold...and consumed! The horror!


----------



## PostModern (5/8/08)

Les the Weizguy said:


> You guys are missing the point here.
> A life has been lost.
> A testament has been made to Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest, where the lesser fit are eliminated.
> The boy didn't have the common sense to stop himself. His time was up. It might have happened last weekend, but he's probably come close before, and it would have happened eventually, but soon.
> ...



I agree with this. It is too late for this unfortunate youngster. All that we can do is take care of our own, so that they can have the opportunity to live long enough to spawn themselves.




Brewtus said:


> I think it might be a left over from the attempt to undermine the NSW Rum Corp, the fore-fathers of the NSW Police. The Governor at the time opened Govt owned breweries and made making rum without a license illegal.



The Rum Rebellion had nothing to do with Rum. Bligh was basically an idiot (as shown by his previous command on the HMS Bounty). Macarthur enlisted support from the disgruntled New South Wales Corp and arrested Bligh and took over the colony to prevent a rebellion of the masses which would have led to a total mess. Rum had not been used as a currency in Sydney for 8-9 years. No-one at the time thought the rebellion was about Rum. It was just Bligh's feeble clutch at power.

In fact, it was not even called the Rum Rebellion until 1855 when that term was coined by a temperance freak Quaker historian. Sure there was some use of Rum as a currency, but it was all over well before the rebellion. The effects of the 19th Century temperance freaks is still being felt in our country's alcohol policy and in the public view of this historical event.


----------



## Millet Man (5/8/08)

Geoffi said:


> Ordering an alcoholic drink for your child at a restaurant in Australia might land you in the slammer.


Everywhere except Victoria where it is quite legal.

Cheers, Andrew


----------



## barry2 (5/8/08)

This fellow survived but for how long ?
From ABC news today

A motorist stopped by Bulgarian police after a minor traffic accident admitted he had drunk 20 litres of beer - and promptly passed out, local television reported.

The man had a blood alcohol reading more than double the level usually considered lethal.

The 25-year-old driver, who was not named, registered 0.851 blood alcohol content. 

Bulgaria's legal limit is 0.05 percent, and 0.40 is often fatal.

Bulgarian police have upped the number of road checks this summer following a series of serious accidents. 

Over 1,000 people were killed in road accidents in 2007 in Bulgaria, which has a population of 7.7 million. 

- AFP


----------



## reviled (5/8/08)

Millet Man said:


> Everywhere except Victoria where it is quite legal.
> 
> Cheers, Andrew



Its legal in NZ too B)


----------



## DiscoStu (5/8/08)

It's a tragedy for a 15 year old to die this way but it doesn't change the fact that it was his own actions that led to his early demise. A 15 year old should know right from wrong, should know that drinking 2 bottles of spirits could do serious harm.

Regardless of whether is was home made liquor or purchased he was still breaking the law by drinking it. Changing any current laws would not have prevented this from happening.

But in a society where people generally won't accept responsibility for their own actions there will need to be someone to blame, that could well be the homebrew industry if the media decides to make an issue out of it.

Given our collective goverments seem determined to legislate to society's lowest common demoninator we should remember that homebrewing has only been legal since 72, Rudd could reverse this if it's politically beneficial.


----------



## PostModern (5/8/08)

DiscoStu said:


> But in a society where people generally won't accept responsibility for their own actions there will need to be someone to blame, that could well be the homebrew industry if the media decides to make an issue out of it.
> 
> Given our collective goverments seem determined to legislate to society's lowest common demoninator we should remember that homebrewing has only been legal since 72, Rudd could reverse this if it's politically beneficial.



Ouzo is a spirit. It is distilled. Home distilling is illegal and this sort of thing will help to make it remain so. Some illegally distilling can't and won't make one iota of difference to the legality of making beer and wine at home.


----------



## DiscoStu (5/8/08)

PostModern said:


> Ouzo is a spirit. It is distilled. Home distilling is illegal and this sort of thing will help to make it remain so. Some illegally distilling can't and won't make one iota of difference to the legality of making beer and wine at home.



IMHO your argument relies on the media and the politicians having the integrity and honesty to distinguish between illegal spirit distillation and legitimate home brewing of beer as well as the general public understanding the difference between the two.

The government increased the tax on alchopops knowing full well it would do nothing to reduce binge drinking, but would increase tax revenue. The media has happily gone along with this charade.

The general public will believe whatever A Current Affair/Today Tonight tell them to, so if the media decide to make the "homebrew" angle an issue in this story however unfounded, expect the pollies take it up.


----------



## PostModern (5/8/08)

Happily the media and politicians don't write legislation.

Sadly I know a few brew shops that rely on the sale of stills, for nudge-nudge, wink-wink, the distillation of water. If the LHBS didn't place itself as a replacement for the bottle shop in all things, there might exist a little less confusion.


----------



## boingk (5/8/08)

Christ, sounds like what happened at a party when I was in third form...poor bloody girl worked her way through a bottle and a half of spirits before the groups she'd been with worked out what was happening. End of story we barred her from anything else then watched as she collapsed. Somone called the ambos while a mate gave her CPR. Christ she was lucky.

And that was all with good old over-the-counter stuff. In the end its not how its made, as when it comes down to it spirits are spirits - high percentage liqour in a bottle intended for consumption. She had no idea and I'm guessing a lot of the people at the party didn't either, which is what I'm assuming happened at the one in the news article. 

Heres one for the vote to make some sort of actual education on the issue mandatory, because I know I didn't learn a hell of a lot about it in school. I'm lucky I had good parents who allowed me a beer or glass of wine on occasion with the family and taught me that a) you don't need alcohol for a good time and B) when you do drink it shouldn't be excessive, because there isn't anything smart or cool about that.

Cheers all - boingk


----------



## geoffi (5/8/08)

Nice idea about education in schools...but there'd be an explosion of outrage from the wowsers, moralisers and religious fruitcakes. I know exactly what they would say. "If you talk to kids about 'safe' drinking, you'll only encourage them! There is no such thing as 'safe' drinking!"

Funny, but I don't recall Jesus turning water into Fanta for the wedding at Canaa. (Maybe he gave them a talking to about 'safe' drinking before he did his little magic trick.) At least he didn't turn it into ouzo.


----------



## newguy (6/8/08)

Tropical_Brews said:


> A sad fact of life. The country is just full of idiots. Just seems to be brought to our attention more every day.
> 
> And the majority of idiots blame some other idiot.
> 
> ...



The world is full of idiots. A week ago a guy beheaded a fellow passenger on a cross-country bus here in Canada. It took less than a day for some moron in the media to re-float the idea of a knife registry/sale restriction.

A long time ago my best friend damn near died of alcohol poisoning too, but I'm just as guilty as the 15 year-old's friends regarding getting medical help. He was the kind of guy who couldn't just have a couple drinks. He had to drink to excess, and he wasn't happy unless he was the most extreme one at the party. At the time, we also had access to hooch (home-made spirits). His favourite thing was to pour a huge glass full of straight hooch, then make little upside down mushroom clouds of coke in it. This stuff was ~80+% too. 10-15 drops and his drink was properly "mixed". One night, already pissed, he made another one of his signature drinks and proceeded to chug it despite our pleas not to. He ran outside and puked it all back up, which probably saved him. After he passed out, we took turns watching him to make sure that he was still breathing. The hospital was just across the street and about half of us were tempted to take him there. In hindsight we probably should have.

That was also the last time he ever did that. He ended up giving himself a bleeding ulcer which is probably a blessing. He sure curbed his drinking from that day on.

I can't help but think that the only difference between my best friend and the kid that just died is their respective gag reflexes. We didn't haul our friend to the hospital despite the fact that we should have. That kid's friends were obviously in the same situation. Now, unfortunately, they have to live with the knowledge that they could have helped him but they didn't.


----------



## Bribie G (6/8/08)

As a teenager in the UK we went to a party of a mate who lived at a big golf club (Dad was manager and they lived in a residence at the club itself). On the way out we had to file through the bar area to get out of the house and my mate Ralph pocketed a couple of bottles of scotch on the way through.
Walking back to town we (3) skulled the bottles. 

Some time later I had become detached from mates and ended up in a paddock looking up at a huge illuminated sign saying " 1500 homes, school and shops to be built on this site".
Fell over backwards. Rolled around somewhat in the mud. It started to rain. An hour or so later, covered with mud and just my eyes showing I staggered into a police station to ask directions. 

Later, in the cell, my dad arrived (My dad was a police sergeant). "You've been out with that lot again, haven't you??) :lol: :lol: 

I missed 3 days high school due to 3 days vomiting and to this day even the smell of spirits makes me nauseous.

It's a case of more things change, the more they stay the same. Lucky I didn't kill myself, and sorry for the poor kid's family.


----------

