# Making a Perry! Some advice please. No Activity



## manus (13/12/13)

Hi, I have been watching how to make pear cider videos on youtube for a bit and thought I would give it a shot and so went to the local brew shop and got the 5 litre bottles to brew in. 
Anyway I was talking to the store owner and decided I would make 1 batch of Perry just to see if I liked it. I am not second guessing the store owner as I have never done this before but just there is absolutely no activity happening in the brew and its been an hour.

So anyway, 
I got the pure pear juice from tins, no preservatives/additives. I was speaking to the store owner about the adding of sugar to the brew and I had seen many videos of people using brown sugar. He warned against this and told me that standard white sugar should do the trick which I was okay with. Then he added that there might be enough sugar in the juice already and I might not need to add any sugar whatsoever.

I was intrigued by this and he told me to take a reading from the hydrometer of the pear juice and it will have the sugar content on it too. It showed up at 156 per litre, which worked out at about 7.8%. I thought this was a perfect alcohol content and decided not too add any sugar.

So I went poured the contents into the 5 litre glass jar and then added the yeast (Craft Series. M02 Cider Yeast). No problems so far.

Now one thing I did notice on the majority of videos on youtube (Mostly British) was that they shook the bottle well with the yeast in it ( I have only brewed beer so far and was always told to let it sit on top and let it do the work) So I shook the bottle with the yeast in it as advised via youtube.

Anyway a simple enough procedure and no action at all is happening and I havent seen one bubble yet. Its been at least 1 hour now and I havent seen no action at all.
A little nervous I added a little (Not much at all) more yeast on top again without shaking.

Oh and the yeast amount is for 23l and I was told to half the sachet for the amount I am doing. 

Is this standard and has everything that I have done all correct?

Thanks in advance a pic if needed.


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## superstock (13/12/13)

Patience, grasshopper, patience.
Could be 24 hrs.


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## fletcher (13/12/13)

it's only been an hour? patience my friend, patience. RDWHAHB. it'll kick off.


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## manus (13/12/13)

Happy days that makes me feel alot better! Its just in one of the videos (it was a cider) It was nearly popping at 10 mins according to him! Will report back in 24


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## indica86 (13/12/13)

ONE HOUR?!
Holy crap nuggets.

No way was the video guys "popping" @ 10 minutes.
Give it 24 bra.


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## Steven @ Home Make It (14/12/13)

Most fruit wine yeast and champagne yeasts that most of these packets are based on normally take 24 hours to see activity

saw activity in one hour its not on steroids, ITS ON PCB'S

keep us posted


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (14/12/13)

I noticed there was no mention of yeast nutrient. You will need it to help your yeast eat up all of that sugar.


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## jongylary (14/12/13)

i currently have a apple pear cider going for the first time - mine took about a day and half close to 2 days before i saw signs of activity
i used 75% apple juice (berrie) 25% apple/pear (berrie)

i slowly melted .75kg of raw sugar in a pot with the juice - really slowly
i added some honey and nutmeg and cinnamon

i managed to get my hands on cider yeast.


been bubbling for 2 weeks now
probably another 2 weeks before bottling at this stage



for future reference i hvae one question of the group
i want to make a larger batch prob 15lt in size (i have a lot of cider yeast left) 

i want to know how to get different flavours into it - can i add those flavour syrups some use for that other kind of drink making that cannot be named here.

either way happy brewing
drink well - drink fast and drink to many good times
Jongylary


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## manus (15/12/13)

Well thanks for the patience tip. Its all bubbling away now so I am happy enough with that. 

_WALLACE_ i was never advised on yeast nutrient from the shop owner. Is this a must or something that will just help the process. My only ingredients are Pear Juice and Yeast! I thought it was too simple to be true.


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## Bribie G (15/12/13)

I always add a bit of yeast nutrient when making ciders. A good basic yeast nutrient is Diammonium Phosphate, "superphosphate for yeast" that looks a bit like granulated sugar. Just a bit on the end of a teaspoon should be fine for a gallon.


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## Steven @ Home Make It (15/12/13)

jongylary said:


> i currently have a apple pear cider going for the first time - mine took about a day and half close to 2 days before i saw signs of activity
> i used 75% apple juice (berrie) 25% apple/pear (berrie)
> 
> i slowly melted .75kg of raw sugar in a pot with the juice - really slowly
> ...


the cheaper end commercial ciders use essences as the secondary flavor in thier cider but you can also use tannins and oak to flavor ciders
these also impart different flavors
always trail small amounts of tannins before dosing to the final batch
live long and make good cider


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## superstock (15/12/13)

When I make a cider/perry in 5L demi, I add :-
1/2 cup strong black tea (tannin)
Juice of 1/2 lemon (acid)
1/2 to 3/4 teaspoon yeast nutrient (gets it off to a good start) there's not a lot of nutrient for the yeast in apple/pear/blackcurrant juice.

Having said that I made a lot of ciders with just yeast.


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## manus (15/12/13)

Basically a newbie to brewing here so thanks for the advice. Will get some yeast nutrient for my next batch. How long do you think I should give it before bottling and carbonating. I have seen people regret leaving it too long before carbonating and bottling though seen others prefering to leave it in the demi for longer amounts of time. I have been told though to leave it about 4 weeks or until there is about one bubble coming from the airlock per minute.


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## jongylary (15/12/13)

fairly new to all this myself but from the advise i have been give is disregard the bubblng activing - it can still be fermementing even with very little no no visable activity- trust in your hydromater - like beer take constant readings when its stable for 3 days supposedly you want a very low FG otherwise we may be creating bottle bombs lol
Jongylary
Dont drink to excess drink to hydrate


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## TimT (15/12/13)

Yeah not convinced about the need for yeast nutrient, yeast lives naturally on many fruits and finds/creates its own nutrients. That said store-bought pear juice will probably have gone through some sanitisation/possibly pasteurisation process so in that context maybe a bit of nutrient wouldn't go astray.

Would have to refer to my notes but I think the yeast in one of my wines took quite a while to reach its peak. My guess is this happens because wines age over much longer periods than beer; with beer yeasts you want something that does a job quickly and then isn't so obtrusive to ruin the flavour; with wines you want something that is stronger, eats more sugar, steadily, and will keep ageing the wine over months and maybe even years - a stronger, longer lasting yeast.


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## Bribie G (15/12/13)

Best home made cider I've had recently was from a mate I helped to set up a fermenter and bits. We used just Aldi Juice (plus some sugar and YN) and were about to head out to the LHBS to get some sparkling wine yeast when I realised I had a pack of S-04 beer yeast I had ordered in error.

I don't use S-04 so donated it for the cider and it made a really nice brew, as tasty as any of the mega ciders like Bulmers. Probably not a good choice for "fine" ciders and perries, but it certainly hits the spot for a quick quaffing cider.


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## superstock (16/12/13)

manus said:


> Happy days that makes me feel alot better! Its just in one of the videos (it was a cider) It was nearly popping at 10 mins according to him! Will report back in 24


Going back to some of my early notes, I see that when I used bakers yeast (yeast for baking not for brewing) I had activity within 30 mins and krausen with continuous bubbles in an hour.


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## Airgead (16/12/13)

Baker's yeast is bred for a very fast start. No one wants to wait 24 hours for their bread to rise. You also probably used a lot of it further reducing the lag time.

The fast start comes at the expense of flavour as they will pump out lots of weird stuff as they get going. Brewer's yeast may be slower ti start but its much more restrained in the off flavour department.

Another good reason to never let baker's yeast anywhere near your brew (JAO thread notwithstanding)


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## r055c0 (16/12/13)

jongylary said:


> fairly new to all this myself but from the advise i have been give is disregard the bubblng activing - it can still be fermementing even with very little no no visable activity- trust in your hydromater - like beer take constant readings when its stable for 3 days supposedly you want a very low FG otherwise we may be creating bottle bombs lol
> Jongylary
> Dont drink to excess drink to hydrate



I try not to use my hydrometer too often with a 5L batch as it seems like a waste of cider (given the amount needed to fill the tube vs the amount in a 5L demijohn), I'm not saying dont use it but do try to wait for some signs the yeast is finished. Every time I've made cider it has been super cloudy during fermentation, and then gone crystal clear when fermentation is done, this is when I do my hydrometer checks.

Or get on ebay and buy a refractomerer, then you're only using a couple of drops


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## superstock (16/12/13)

Airgead said:


> Baker's yeast is bred for a very fast start. No one wants to wait 24 hours for their bread to rise. You also probably used a lot of it further reducing the lag time.
> 
> The fast start comes at the expense of flavour as they will pump out lots of weird stuff as they get going. Brewer's yeast may be slower ti start but its much more restrained in the off flavour department.
> 
> Another good reason to never let baker's yeast anywhere near your brew (JAO thread notwithstanding)


My notes from that period show that at the same time the experiment included the other 1/2 of the juice being fermented with brewers yeast. It also had activity by 30 mins and had pressure in the airlock within the hour, but, seeing it was midnight I didn,t hang around for more.
I was pointing out to Manus that it was possible to have fast yeast as per the video he refered to but not with the yeast he was using.


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## manus (19/12/13)

Cheers for all the advice. Still no action or bubbles I can see yet. Been a week and still looks like the pic I originally posted to be honest. Being patient though and just making up another 5l now as I speak. Can too much yeast have a negative effect on your brew? Might have 'over yeasted' it.


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## superstock (19/12/13)

Time to pull out your hydrometer and see what the SG is. If you pitched a full packet of yeast it may have started and finished while you were'nt looking.

P.S. you are sure that the juice was preservative free?


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## manus (19/12/13)

Just rechecked the Pear Juice and states No Preservatives, No Artificial Colours, No Artificial Flavours, which is why I think I might have put too much yeast in. There is some stuff forming on the bottom like beer, but just seeing no action. Could just be missing it.


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## manus (19/12/13)

Yea there was alot of yeast put into it but it has only been a week tomorrow its been in there. Dont want to risk taking it out just yet. Was just going to leave it two weeks maybe and take a reading then. Will it do any harm in the jar all fermentation has taken place?


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## Camo6 (20/12/13)

I've had ciders show sweet all activity before. If you've got yeast forming on the bottom I wouldn't stress too much. Two weeks in the fermentor will be fine. Just make sure to take a gravity reading over a few days to be sure its finished.


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## superstock (20/12/13)

Manus, seems like you have a leak. If you have a 5L glass carboy & a rubber bung it's probably the stem of the airlock. A lot of the airlocks have casting flash on the stem which you need to reshape.
I have left cider under airlock for 2mths. Won't do any harm.


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## Airgead (20/12/13)

When you say no activity....

Do you mean that there is no visible fermentation activity? No airlock bubbling? No decrease on gravity?

Cider does not hold a foam like beer does so unless you use a top fermenting yeast you wont' see a big karausn like you will with beer. If the airlock isn't bubbling you may have a leak (or the airlock could be clogged with kittens). The only way to be sure is to watch the gravity. If that's dropping you are fine. if it isn't you may not be fine.

You can over pitch yeast but it will give you odd flavours, it won't fail to ferment.

Cheers
Dave


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## Steven @ Home Make It (20/12/13)

As for fermentation
always rely on your hydrometer to tell what is going on
not your airlock
the bubbling thru airlocks is affected by how well it seals on lid
and also temperature and how much pressure is under the lid

Rule 1 always check with a hydrometer
Rule 2 refer to rule 1

B)


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## Mutaneer (19/5/14)

Just referring back to this,

My Perry has been going for 3 weeks now but still has a very high SG
Using EC1118 yeast and the same tinned Juice as mentioned above.

What FG should we be expecting, especially given the unfermentable sugars found in pear juice


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## Airgead (19/5/14)

I did a trial batch once using that tinned juice and it finished around 1.012. Used 71B rather than EC1118 but it was well under the alcohol tolerance for the yeast so it would have eaten up all the fermentables so the result should be similar for the EC1118.


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## Mutaneer (19/5/14)

Cheers,

mine is still up over 1.025, I might give it a good stir and add a small amount of some DV10 I still have to kick it into gear


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