# "Bronzed Brews" Home brewing old Australian Beers



## Bribie G (3/2/16)

Incredible new book, written by ESB (Sydney) member Peter Symons.





I was alerted to it a couple of weeks ago and my copy arrived today. I held off commenting on the forum as I thought Peter would be posting himself, but mate this book is too good to hide under a bushell, so apologies for stealing any thunder here.

Over 350 pages of detailed and gruelling research into the history of Australian brewing (mostly NSW ) and brewing methods, ingredients... and of course masses of recipes. This would have to be an Australian first and fills in a massive blank area in the history of Australian beers and brewing.

Ron Pattinson of "Barclay Perkins" fame is raving about it. 

Can't wait to get into brewing some of the oldies like the original KB, Dinner Ale etc.

Works out around $A35 including postage as it's published in the USA (same mob that do Ron's books), took only about a week to arrive.

Reading specs on. This stuff is pure gold B)


----------



## warra48 (3/2/16)

My copy arrived about 3 days ago. I agree it's a fascinating read so far, but only about 1/4 of the way through.

It also gives the reason why White Labs recent special release is called Melbourne No.1. The strain was isolated by Mr Johnson in a lab in Melbourne and widely used throughout Australia. Apparently it had the ability to successfully ferment brews with up to 50% gravity of cane sugar, without the slightest sign of weakness. It also stayed pure after re-sowing for months.

Recommend the book. Buy it, it's not expensive. 

And the recipes given in the book look really interesting for anyone attempting to brew an historic aussie beer.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (3/2/16)

ooh, just ordered. thanks for posting.


----------



## BJB (3/2/16)

Ordered!


----------



## indica86 (3/2/16)

Looks interesting, thanks for the heads up.
I'll grab it next payday.


----------



## Batz (3/2/16)

Thanks Bribie, I have a real interest in _true_ Australian beers. Also ordered today.


----------



## Bridges (3/2/16)

Big ups Bribie. My google fu failed me when the Melbourne yeast strain was mentioned in a thread a week or so back, couldn't find this book, sounds great!


----------



## SBOB (4/2/16)

If you're interested in hearing from the author, he was on this weeks 'Basic Brewing Radio' podcast

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio


> Peter Symons joins us from Sydney to talk about Bronzed Brews, his new book exploring the history of Australian brewing.


----------



## Dave70 (4/2/16)

Good stuff.
A crate of original recipe Reschs pilsner would be just the sentimental ticket for the old mans birthday. 
He was drinking it back when you needed one of these to access your (steel) can of beer.


----------



## Borneogoat (4/2/16)

Just got my copy today. I live just down the road from the Cascade Brewery and I'm looking forward to brewing the 1887 Stout. At 8% it certainly is a different beast than today's example!

A quick glance at the recipes shows a lot brews with high percentages of sugar. Curious what they'll taste like....


----------



## Feldon (4/2/16)

Borneogoat said:


> Just got my copy today. I live just down the road from the Cascade Brewery and I'm looking forward to brewing the 1887 Stout. At 8% it certainly is a different beast than today's example!
> 
> A quick glance at the recipes shows a lot brews with high percentages of sugar. Curious what they'll taste like....


According to the podcast linked above you have to over pitch yeast to avoid cidery flavours from the large amount of raw sugar in the wort.


----------



## nosco (4/2/16)

Just ordered mine. $33.81 with PayPal


----------



## Reman (5/2/16)

http://aleofatime.com/2016/02/qa-peter-symons/

Also an article on craftypint


----------



## Tahoose (5/2/16)

Looks like an interesting read, I'll put it on the list.


----------



## Funk then Funk1 (5/2/16)

do a quick google for lulu.com coupons and you can get a discount and free delivery.


----------



## kunfaced (5/2/16)

I liked the cut of his jib...

then this happened

"I would really like to drink an Extra Stout with some Brettanomyces in the finish"

...I'm out


----------



## Dozer71 (5/2/16)

Funk then Funk1 said:


> do a quick google for lulu.com coupons and you can get a discount and free delivery.


Thanks for the heads up. Success.


----------



## Mardoo (5/2/16)

Thanks! Saved 25%!


----------



## Bribie G (5/2/16)

kunfaced said:


> I liked the cut of his jib...
> 
> then this happened
> 
> ...


Apparently Brett is used in the production of the Guinness "extract" that is exported around the globe to be used in local manufacture.


----------



## nosco (5/2/16)

Mardoo said:


> Thanks! Saved 25%!


Dam i should have been more patient


----------



## seehuusen (5/2/16)

Sounds like just a book Id like to read 
Thanks for the heads up Bribie!

Cheers,
Martin

Ps. LULURC gave me 25% off plus free shipping, Aud $20.25 delivered, gotta be happy with that


----------



## Grott (5/2/16)

Thanks Bribie for reference, thanks Funk for coupons reference. Ordered to the door as above, just tops.
Cheers


----------



## Topher (5/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> Apparently Brett is used in the production of the Guinness "extract" that is exported around the globe to be used in local manufacture.


Theres a Kilkenny tap up the road thats got something in it. Dunno if its brett..but Damn its awesome.


----------



## Korev (6/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> Incredible new book, written by ESB (Sydney) member Peter Symons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Bribie glad that you are enjoying The Book. I stress checking the Lulu homepage for their regular Discount Coupon offers.

Currently only US members of the White Labs Customer Club are allowed to vote in the Yeast Vault - we need 238 more people to vote for it (them) to get to 250. According to The Brew Shop once the magic 250 number is achieved then they can order more. I encourage everyone to lobby their LHBS and perhaps that could swing an earlier release?

I have a 1916 Pale ale in the fermenter at the moment with WLP059 and it is giving off some nice esters - give it a couple of weeks to condition and it should be ready for the next ESB club meeting.

Then the question is what should be the next beer using the yeast cake??? Decisions Decisions

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Bribie G (6/2/16)

Ah, so you're Peter :lol:

Hope to get down to ESB comp this year.
Prepare to have your brains picked.

Just a couple of points, I can't get any Castle six row but for the pre- WW2 beers using "Cape malt" would just plain old BB Pale, being very bland and un-malty, be a good substitute?
Would one of the Belgian Candi sugars be a good sub for Invert no. 1? I'm particularly interested in Reschs DA. Otherwise I'll make my own.

Cheers
Michael

edit: I have bought Whitelabs from The Brew Shop at Peakhurst previously. How do we "lobby" them, just put in a message on their contact us page?


----------



## Mardoo (6/2/16)

Hey Bribie FWIW I bookmarked this recipe for Invert Sugar once. I haven't tried it and can't speak for its authenticity, but the guy seems pretty determined.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (6/2/16)

kunfaced said:


> I liked the cut of his jib...
> 
> then this happened
> 
> ...





Bribie G said:


> Apparently Brett is used in the production of the Guinness "extract" that is exported around the globe to be used in local manufacture.


yeah I'd expect most historical UK beers would have been bretty.


----------



## Korev (6/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> Ah, so you're Peter :lol:
> 
> Hope to get down to ESB comp this year.
> Prepare to have your brains picked.
> ...


You should try for a grainy and husky malt I have not used BB Pale. I got my Castle 6 row lager malt from The Brew Shop 

The easy way to make No1 invert is to buy Tate and Lyles Golden Syrup (not CSR it is far too dark) and mix in the right amount of good molasses - I use Beerenberg The molasses needs to taste pleasant not bitter like the cheap stuff.

The unholymess site has the right ratios and a calculator

Barry Cranston brewed the DA using invert that I made up and it came out very well can't speak for the flavour effects of using candi sugar

The Brew Shop are on side about the yeast - perhaps you would like to start an online petition that we could sent to White Labs!

ESBComp2016 planning is well under way and will mostly use BJCP2015 Guidelines

Cheers
Peter
PS best of luck with the brain picking


----------



## Mardoo (6/2/16)

Just listened to the recent podcast of The Session with the Whitelabs folks on it. Korev, I was thinking of something like what you were, except maybe one brew shop taking on the project for the Aussie brewing contingent and coordinating with Whitelabs. 

They'd have zero issue selling 250 vials into Oz, but we can't vote, so likely the yeast won't even get produced, as only Americans can vote. Chris White said on the podcast that they planned to work with brew shops overseas to get Vault yeasts to customers. So is there a brew shop that would spearhead this? Either to sell all the yeast themselves or to act as distributor to other brew shops? It could lead into a good relationship with Whitelabs to act as distributor for the Vault yeasts in Oz.


----------



## Korev (7/2/16)

Mardoo said:


> Just listened to the recent podcast of The Session with the Whitelabs folks on it. Korev, I was thinking of something like what you were, except maybe one brew shop taking on the project for the Aussie brewing contingent and coordinating with Whitelabs.
> 
> They'd have zero issue selling 250 vials into Oz, but we can't vote, so likely the yeast won't even get produced, as only Americans can vote. Chris White said on the podcast that they planned to work with brew shops overseas to get Vault yeasts to customers. So is there a brew shop that would spearhead this? Either to sell all the yeast themselves or to act as distributor to other brew shops? It could lead into a good relationship with Whitelabs to act as distributor for the Vault yeasts in Oz.


My understanding is that The Brew Shop is the White Labs Distributor so they would seem to be the obvious choice. I think we need a system like a bulk buy where those interested commit to buying WLP059 then the Australian total could be added to those already in the Yeast vault - as of today we need 238 more votes!!

I have never organised a bulk buy so it would be good for someone who knows how to do it to put their hand up.

Cheers
Peter


----------



## crowmanz (10/2/16)

Ordered on Friday and at my door when I got home today, cant wait to have a read!


----------



## Bribie G (10/2/16)

Korev said:


> My understanding is that The Brew Shop is the White Labs Distributor so they would seem to be the obvious choice. I think we need a system like a bulk buy where those interested commit to buying WLP059 then the Australian total could be added to those already in the Yeast vault - as of today we need 238 more votes!!
> 
> I have never organised a bulk buy so it would be good for someone who knows how to do it to put their hand up.
> 
> ...


I want this yeast so much it hurts, I'll have a think about how we can organise this.

Edit: my last bulk buy Admin position was in the Chinese Hops Buy... great buy, sad about the hops, but a great buy nonetheless. ... :lol: :lol:


----------



## Batz (10/2/16)

Mine arrived!


----------



## warra48 (10/2/16)

Already read it cover to cover.

We need that Melbourne 1 yeast to do the recipes justice.


----------



## Mardoo (10/2/16)

Anyone know someone at The Brew Shop? I'm in the process of setting up a different bulk buy and just don't have time to do two. If someone already has an in, it'd be great if they could at least check whether The Brew Shop would be interested in someone heading up the effort, or doing it themselves.


----------



## dicko (10/2/16)

Batz said:


> Mine arrived!


Mine arrived on courier today as well....looks like I have some reading ahead.


----------



## AJS2154 (10/2/16)

Mine arrived too.

Wonderful read and a credit to Peter Symons. I am keen to have a crack at most of the recipes, love all the dark beers in there.

My first ever sip of beer was on my grandfather's knee, in his beautiful old house in Tamworth. I was probably 5 or 6 (which is now 45 years ago). Still remember the overwhelming bitterness and how cold it was. Great memory to have, and the reason I bought the book; my grandfather's drink of choice was Resch's Dinner Ale (DA)....or dirty annie. I will be all over that like a fat kid on a chip.

Just one question. I have been reading the recipes carefully and can't work out one thing. The recipes have a batch size and a wort size of 23 litres. I assume this is the volume of wort into the fermenter. Correct?

If you are reading Peter, I have a number of beer brewing / recipe books which a great to have. However, with this book you have produced a collection of historically significant Australian beers and allowed us the chance to have a crack at making them. I will never know if the beers I brew are the even similar to what my grandfather used to drink in his home in Tamworth, but it doen't matter......I will imagine they are when I drink them, and thats all that matters. I will drink him a toast. Cheers, well done and thank you. Anthony


----------



## crowmanz (10/2/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Just one question. I have been reading the recipes carefully and can't work out one thing. The recipes have a batch size and a wort size of 23 litres. I assume this is the volume of wort into the fermenter. Correct?


page 6 has "Batch size 23L with a pre-boil wort size of 32L" so yeah 23L into the FV


----------



## AJS2154 (10/2/16)

Thanks for the response crowmanz. I saw that information too, but to be honest that is where I became confused. It also says that the evap rate is 10% per hour, so if you start with 32 litres, and boil for 90minutes (1.5 hours) then does that not then leave a wort size of 27.2 litres? That is, 30 * 0.85 = 27.2.

I might be making an error here, or perhaps it is assumed that the kettle to fermenter loss is 4.2 litres?


----------



## warra48 (10/2/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Thanks for the response crowmanz. I saw that information too, but to be honest that is where I became confused. It also says that the evap rate is 10% per hour, so if you start with 32 litres, and boil for 90minutes (1.5 hours) then does that not then leave a wort size of 27.2 litres? That is, 30 * 0.85 = 27.2.
> 
> I might be making an error here, or perhaps it is assumed that the kettle to fermenter loss is 4.2 litres?


The recipes are set out using Promash.
A lot of the long term brewers on here may still prefer to use that software, but many more now use alternative software such as BeerSmith2 and others.
The reality is that the recipes are for 23 litres into the fermenter, and you need to adjust them for your own system and software, just like all recipes copied from print or the web, to ensure you achieve the result you aim for.


----------



## paulyman (10/2/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Thanks for the response crowmanz. I saw that information too, but to be honest that is where I became confused. It also says that the evap rate is 10% per hour, so if you start with 32 litres, and boil for 90minutes (1.5 hours) then does that not then leave a wort size of 27.2 litres? That is, 30 * 0.85 = 27.2.
> 
> I might be making an error here, or perhaps it is assumed that the kettle to fermenter loss is 4.2 litres?


Don't forget about cooling which would bring it down to 27.2*0.96 = 26.1, assuming 4% loss of volume during cooling which seems the standard. Allowing for 3L of trub and dead space sounds reasonable if it is BIAB.


----------



## AJS2154 (11/2/16)

Thanks for the responses guys. Yes, I do adapt them BIAB, and I allow for 4% shrinkage and also a correction for trub / dead space. I will have a crack and see how it goes. Looking froward to it. All the best, Anthony


----------



## pablo_h (11/2/16)

Anything on WA in the book?
I remember decades ago, some pubs in Perth, and especially any country towns along the railways, usually had old photos or ads of long defunct breweries that were in the area that were gobbled up pre 1940. I use to find it fascinating. Also it was interesting how there used to be so many dark ales about that have since disappeared.
Number pulled out of nowhere, but there were something like 100+ breweries, most taken over by swan, and now swan is gone too. What wasn't taken over by swan/LN swan, was taken over later by CUB. But good to see it's been reversed, first matilda (gone), then tousist area resurgence (bootleg was the first I remember early 90s, as well as inchant in guildford, sail and anchor took over after the matilda guys left selling house beer at brass monkey and queens, LC, feral, nail, german guy in the swan valley too was a while ago.


----------



## ctagz (11/2/16)

Just ordered using a coupon for a cool 25% off and free ship.... posted for just over $20AUD

Cant wait for the read!!


----------



## paulyman (11/2/16)

Just ordered a copy. Listened to the podcast on Basic Brewing the other day, it was really interesting, Peter is a great speaker as well.


----------



## Batz (11/2/16)

Now we want the yeast, I wonder who will be the first retailer to stock it?

It'll come out I'm sure.


----------



## AJS2154 (11/2/16)

pablo_h said:


> Anything on WA in the book?


Pablo,

He mentions WA's only claim to fame......the Emu 2.2 Lager. He said WA isn't notable beyond that......I think that might be slightly harsh


----------



## pablo_h (11/2/16)

You're taking the mick. 
I know I went off topic with the new stuff, but hey, we had as many old brits here making good beers as any other state once upon a time, and rule the roost now as well.

E: And damn, they did make something like that didn't they? Brought it out because of the stupid tooheys blue.
The "I'll have another, I'll have another Swan Gold!" jingle and the ABV wasn't low enough for the race to the bottom.


----------



## Reman (12/2/16)

Ordered my copy with LULURC code. Can't wait to read it. I've also downloaded the poscast to listen to as well.


----------



## seehuusen (12/2/16)

Mine arrived yesterday, check the shipping date!!! 
I'm looking forward to a good read


----------



## Liam_snorkel (12/2/16)

they appear to be printed & shipped locally, it's a great system


----------



## Tahoose (12/2/16)

Purchased, looking forward to trying some of these.


----------



## jyo (12/2/16)

Just ordered mine. Stoked.

Shame there are no WA beers in there. I was hoping for a ye olde recipe for Emu Bitter Ale.

Congrats on the publication, Peter.


----------



## Bribie G (12/2/16)

If there are similar Victorian, SA, WA etc records then maybe we could look forward to a second edition, if Pete hasn't worked himself to an early grave doing it :unsure:


----------



## Feldon (12/2/16)

Its not just old brewery records that are important, but the oral history of the old brewers must be recorded. Beyond the ingredients that were used is the equipment, the methods and techniques,. And also the shift staffing, the characters and the culture of brewery life. These old blokes are in retirement homes around the country and historians need to get to them before they pass away.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (12/2/16)

Bought. Excited. Thank you!


----------



## fletcher (12/2/16)

just ordered a copy! pretty excited


----------



## Korev (13/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> If there are similar Victorian, SA, WA etc records then maybe we could look forward to a second edition, if Pete hasn't worked himself to an early grave doing it :unsure:


I am sure that there are more brewing logs out there - it is a question of finding out where and then getting access, which is tricky. The Swan brewery closed - but where did the brewing archive go?? Hopefully not in a skip!

Thanks for your concern I am still keen to fill in some more gaps.

Peter


----------



## Korev (13/2/16)

New podcast 

http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2016/02/radio-brews-news-episode-77-bronzed-brews-2/

Covered some different issues from the Basic Brewing podcast.

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Korev (13/2/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Thanks for the response crowmanz. I saw that information too, but to be honest that is where I became confused. It also says that the evap rate is 10% per hour, so if you start with 32 litres, and boil for 90minutes (1.5 hours) then does that not then leave a wort size of 27.2 litres? That is, 30 * 0.85 = 27.2.
> 
> I might be making an error here, or perhaps it is assumed that the kettle to fermenter loss is 4.2 litres?


I aim for 23l into the fermenter, what I find is with wort contraction due to cooling, and the losses due to not wanting to get trub into the fermenter is that I end up with a fair loss as well as the evaporation losses.

Everybodys system will likely be different and what I tried to do was set out as basis how my system works so that other brewers could adjust to suit their system.

Barry Cranston brewed most of the lagers and he took my recipe and fed it into Beersmith without problem.

Hope it works out OK for you

Cheers
Peter


----------



## AJS2154 (13/2/16)

Korev said:


> I aim for 23l into the fermenter, what I find is with wort contraction due to cooling, and the losses due to not wanting to get trub into the fermenter is that I end up with a fair loss as well as the evaporation losses.
> 
> Everybodys system will likely be different and what I tried to do was set out as basis how my system works so that other brewers could adjust to suit their system.
> 
> ...


Thanks Peter, apopreciate the response mate. I am looking forward to having a crack. All the best, Anthony


----------



## kunfaced (15/2/16)

attempting to brew a Dinner Ale this week, and possibly the 1913 pale ale. You guys attempted any of the brews yet?


----------



## jasonmac72 (15/2/16)

Could Vienna serve as a substitute for the Castle Pilsen 6 Row Malted Barley? The Brew Shop is currently out of stock and can't find it elsewhere.


----------



## Korev (15/2/16)

jasonmac72 said:


> Could Vienna serve as a substitute for the Castle Pilsen 6 Row Malted Barley? The Brew Shop is currently out of stock and can't find it elsewhere.


I think that Vienna would be far too dark and add too much maltiness. So I suggest Joe White Traditional Ale or another grainy husky and not very malty pale ale malt.

Peter


----------



## kaiserben (15/2/16)

Bought it. Enjoying it. Good job.


----------



## wally (19/2/16)

Anyone interested in obtaining the Melbourne No.1 yeast to brew some beers from the "Bronzed Beers" book and not have to wait for Whitelabs to release it?

It is available from the UK , National Collection of Yeast Cultures, here.

Not a cheap option, but if you know someone who works at at academic institution, it is available at a better price. Perhaps if several people got together it could be shared and work out to be a reasonable price.


----------



## Bribie G (19/2/16)

Any brew clubs interested in latching onto this idea? If any members were experienced yeast cultivators, might bring in a lot of dollars for the club. Remember Proculture a few years ago? I'd buy a few vials.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (19/2/16)

at the very least it would be easy to spread the cost around club members.


----------



## Bridges (19/2/16)

I did sound out Cocko @ fullpint regarding the Melbourne yeast, and he was going to get in touch with white labs, maybe we can start a separate thread and register our interest there to get a solid number of keen punters. Then he can get onto whitelabs. I'd think we'd get quite a few keen on this yeast. Surely if we were ordering 40 or so vials it'd be worth their while?


----------



## kunfaced (19/2/16)

I'd buy 10 vials straight up



Bridges said:


> Surely if we were ordering 40 or so vials it'd be worth their while?


----------



## Bridges (19/2/16)

10 VIALS. Shit yeah go hard or go home hey.
Put me down for 2.


Feeling somewhat inadequate... Beer will put out that fire...


----------



## Mardoo (19/2/16)

I'm in for 2


----------



## Reman (19/2/16)

My copy turned up yesterday, can't wait to get stuck in.

I'd be in for two vials too.


----------



## Cortez The Killer (20/2/16)

Ordered

Cheers


----------



## Korev (20/2/16)

Guys

I have emailed Chris White to see what he could do to make 059 available

I will let you know what he says

Cheers
Peter


----------



## jyo (20/2/16)

Got mine on Thursday and really looking forward to having a read. I couldn't help myself, and skimmed through a few of the recipes. Can't wait to brew some of these old pale ales and stouts. Time to get a shedload of Cluster and EKG!


----------



## Korev (29/2/16)

Now is a great time to buy Bronzed Brews 25% off!

It's Leap Year, which means there is one extra day to save on Lulu.com. Today only, save 25% on all print books ordered from the Lulu.com bookstore. 

*Enter code LEAP25 at checkout and save 25% on all print books. This offer ends February 29th at 11:59PM**. Remember, coupon codes are CASE-SENSITIVE*_._

_The fine print: This offer applies to listed products only. It cannot be combined with other offers and cannot be applied to previous purchases. _


----------



## jasonmac72 (29/2/16)

Brewed a 1917 Tooths Crystal Ale on the weekend. Fingers crossed


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken (8/3/16)

Korev said:


> Now is a great time to buy Bronzed Brews 25% off!


I jumped on this option and the courier arrived bright and early yesterday morning...it was a real struggle to leave the book behind and drag myself in to work.
Dead keen to start on some of the recipes.


----------



## Bribie G (8/3/16)

I find this book fascinating, being a Pommy migrant I have a good knowledge of the history of British brewing but until now, Australia has been a "black hole". Most of what I thought I knew about Australian brewing has been blown away.

They put sugar in the wort to make it more drinkable for the six o'clock swill. Wrong.
As soon as refrigeration became available breweries switched almost entirely to lagers. Wrong.
We have little to no knowledge of what hops they used before POR. Wrong.
We can't recreate old recipes because the yeast strains are long gone. Wrong.

I haven't even looked at the recipes yet, still delving into the narrative of the book and so far I feel like I've done five rounds with Mike Tyson :blink:

Not a real criticism but in the event of a second edition perhaps the quoted source material could be printed in a slightly different font face / weight as sometimes in the more detailed passages, especially with the more modern 20th Century sources it's a bit hard to distinguish between the Author's words and the text being quoted. Just a nitpick.

BTW for some of the very early 20th Century and late 19th Century ales I'm considering using a Burton Union yeast, water treatment as per the era and doing a fair bit of rousing.


----------



## Rod (8/3/16)

I am a stove top brewer

are the recipes all grain 

or will I be able to make some


----------



## Korev (8/3/16)

Rod said:


> I am a stove top brewer
> 
> are the recipes all grain
> 
> or will I be able to make some


Yes the recipes are all grain - I am not sure how they would turn out when using extract which tends to have blends of malts and possibly adjuncts such as wheat

There are plenty of sites/books that detail how to convert from AG to Extract - otherwise is it time to move to BIAB?

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Korev (8/3/16)

Bribie G said:


> I find this book fascinating, being a Pommy migrant I have a good knowledge of the history of British brewing but until now, Australia has been a "black hole". Most of what I thought I knew about Australian brewing has been blown away.
> 
> They put sugar in the wort to make it more drinkable for the six o'clock swill. Wrong.
> As soon as refrigeration became available breweries switched almost entirely to lagers. Wrong.
> ...



Hi Bribie

Your comment about the quoted material is a fair point - I originally used italics within the quote marks but I felt that using italics was hard work on the eyes. So I ended up just going with the quote marks.

Late 19th century both Tooths and Tooheys were using Burton Unions for cleansing by the early 20th century 'skimming' was in vogue So WLP023 Burton Ale for Unions and perhaps WLP037 Yorkshire square ale or WLP017 Whitbread for skimming - for both methods the first ~ 24-36 hours was in the starting rounds then dropped to unions or squares so a fair bit of oxygen added so rousing would seem to be a good option.

Ref Tyson have you checked the condition of your ears lately?

Cheers
Peter


----------



## AJS2154 (8/3/16)

Hey Korev / Peter,

Wonderful we can communicate directly with the author......and since we have that opportunity I am going to put you on the spot.

Q) Could you please nominate your top 3 brews from the book, in order for best second best etc. Reasons why would be great too.

Please don't be a big girl's blouse and say something like "oohhh, that's like asking me which is my favourite child". We all know we have a favourite child, and it's never the red head with freckles, so go hard and give us your favs. 

PS. For all the rangas reading this post.....back in your box, I am only joking......we all love readheads  not


----------



## Korev (8/3/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Hey Korev / Peter,
> 
> Wonderful we can communicate directly with the author......and since we have that opportunity I am going to put you on the spot.
> 
> ...


No worries - no squibbing - here you go my personal favourites are

#1 1928 Bock p 329 as brewed by a certain Mr. B. Cranston - all the flavour characteristics of a Bock but around 4.4% ABV a wonderful quaffing beer - very moreish
#2 1936 Oatmeal Stout p193 also brewed by Mr C - wonderful flavour, great drinkability, and so smooooooth
#3 1917 Crystal Ale p281 a classic lawnmower beer - dry and crisp with a bitter lemon flavour just the job for hot Sydney days

a close run for #3 is the 1916 Pale Ale that I am currently drinking similar grist but a bit more alcohol at around 5 %


Who else has had a go at a recipe from the book and how did it turn out??

Cheers
Peter


----------



## WhiteLomu (8/3/16)

Just finished reading it. Great book.
The amount of sugar used in some recipes is staggering.
Wondered which recipes were the favourites. Good to know which they are.
Cheers


----------



## jphowman (8/3/16)

I've just dry hopped a stout that I modelled on Tooheys Oatmeal Stout, Though I just used a bunch of whatever malt I had on hand. I made my own invert sugar based on this thread.
I'm going to try to brew a XXX soon as well.


----------



## AJS2154 (8/3/16)

You are a champion, and a good sport, Peter. Thanks for being involved.

I am absolutely loving that book mate.


----------



## Korev (9/3/16)

AJS2154 said:


> You are a champion, and a good sport, Peter. Thanks for being involved.
> 
> I am absolutely loving that book mate.


No problem - it's good to have feedback

Peter


----------



## jasonmac72 (10/3/16)

Western Sydney Brewers are discussing having a "Bronzed Brews" themed night soon


----------



## Randai (10/3/16)

So I have a question (haven't finished the XXX/Old chapter yet) or maybe I've missed it, within the book.

It seems that XXX or Old or "Australian Dark Ale" which I think is called these days could compare to two types of English beer.

Is this the same thing as an English Mild Ale? even though it appears to have gone through a similar but not as dramatic transition that the Mild Ales in the UK/England went through.

Or does it somehow come from the "Old Ales" that are close to barelywines and then progressed into a weaker variant as time went on and becamse something all of its own.

Edit:
As well I was wondering Peter, loved the book so far (over 60% through), are you looking at doing another one in the future that expands out further into the other states? I'd be really interested to see what was happening outside of NSW. Or do you think that they were much the same?


----------



## Korev (10/3/16)

jasonmac72 said:


> Western Sydney Brewers are discussing having a "Bronzed Brews" themed night soon



I would be pleased to come along and do some Q&A. Please let me know when and where.

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Korev (10/3/16)

Randai said:


> So I have a question (haven't finished the XXX/Old chapter yet) or maybe I've missed it, within the book.
> 
> It seems that XXX or Old or "Australian Dark Ale" which I think is called these days could compare to two types of English beer.
> 
> ...



Ref Old - I don't want to spoil the ending for you in Chapter 8.

As to your other question I would love to get access to original source brewing logs in other States - then I could provide more insights into historical beers, and brewing practices plus some recreations.

So if anyone here has brewery contacts who are in a position to grant me access to brewing archives in Launceston, Hobart, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Brisbane and also know where the brewing archive went after Swan was closed please PM me

Cheers
Peter


----------



## paulyman (10/3/16)

Planning on brewing the 1844 Tooth's XXX in the very near future. Plan is to try a bottle or 2 at christmas and then save the rest for the following christmas.


----------



## Randai (16/3/16)

I am planning on doing the Resch's XXX from 1917. It has a final gravity of 1.016, which seems quite high even given the 65%-75% of the European Ale yeast listed.
The mashing is slightly higher, but would that be enough to give those few more gravity points? Or should I halt the fermentation, crash it and then just keg it when it gets to the expected FG?
Just asking if there is something I am missing and someone else could point it out for me.


----------



## Korev (17/3/16)

Randai said:


> I am planning on doing the Resch's XXX from 1917. It has a final gravity of 1.016, which seems quite high even given the 65%-75% of the European Ale yeast listed.
> The mashing is slightly higher, but would that be enough to give those few more gravity points? Or should I halt the fermentation, crash it and then just keg it when it gets to the expected FG?
> Just asking if there is something I am missing and someone else could point it out for me.


To get the high FG consider also the following ideas
- a shorter mash time is in the recipe (60 mins) I normally would mash for 90 minutes total incl. mash out, you could go shorter than 60, you would know how your system works better than I
- you could mash a little higher say 70C
- Yes you could also a short ferment and crash cool

and you could do a combination of the above along with the European Ale yeast to get the higher FG

I have looked back in my records and I achieved 1.014 using Yorkshire Square Yeast so you hopefully should be able to get close to 1.016 say at 70C with European Ale and no crash cooling

Hope this helps - please let me know how you get on

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Randai (17/3/16)

Will let you know Peter. I appreciate the feedback.
Planning on this weekend have made the Invert and Brewers Caramel so ready to go.

As a fan of the Tooheys old I wanted to see an example from the past, especially if it was one of the most common drinks around in Australia.

Would be really interested in trying out the Melbourne Ale yeast as well, did you end up using it at all? Any particular flavours you got from it if you did?

Also wanted to thank you again for the cracking book. Really great read.


----------



## jyo (17/3/16)

Bribie G said:


> I find this book fascinating, being a Pommy migrant I have a good knowledge of the history of British brewing but until now, Australia has been a "black hole". Most of what I thought I knew about Australian brewing has been blown away.
> 
> They put sugar in the wort to make it more drinkable for the six o'clock swill. Wrong.
> As soon as refrigeration became available breweries switched almost entirely to lagers. Wrong.
> ...


Was thinking British Ale II actually, Bribie.


----------



## Korev (19/3/16)

Randai said:


> Will let you know Peter. I appreciate the feedback.
> Planning on this weekend have made the Invert and Brewers Caramel so ready to go.
> 
> As a fan of the Tooheys old I wanted to see an example from the past, especially if it was one of the most common drinks around in Australia.
> ...


The Melbourne Ale yeast seems to give a malty profile however this is on a data point of one Pale Ale.

Peter


----------



## Weizguy (19/3/16)

Batz said:


> Now we want the yeast, I wonder who will be the first retailer to stock it?
> 
> It'll come out I'm sure.





wally said:


> Anyone interested in obtaining the Melbourne No.1 yeast to brew some beers from the "Bronzed Beers" book and not have to wait for Whitelabs to release it?
> 
> It is available from the UK , National Collection of Yeast Cultures, here.
> 
> Not a cheap option, but if you know someone who works at at academic institution, it is available at a better price. Perhaps if several people got together it could be shared and work out to be a reasonable price.


I also had a look at the NCYC website and was thinking about getting a culture direct. It's not too pricey for a piece of history.
Also spotted the *West End* and *Southwark* lager yeasts there, but no others that were named, from recognisable breweries.

Shame that WhiteLabs have excluded the primary market (we, here in Oz) from voting the Melbourne #1 yeast into production. Market bias? Maybe that point should be made apparent to Chris White.

Time to lobby WhiteLabs directly. Remember, it was the Australian brewers that really pushed W1469 back into regular production at Wyeast.

Oh, BTW, Lulu.com accepted my order for your book this morning. Well done, Peter, and thanks for filling one more piece of the historical puzzle. Looking forward to more, and getting my book signed too.
Peter, did you say where you obtained the Melbourne #1?


----------



## Bribie G (19/3/16)

I seem to remember a 2-part TV program a few years ago about the history of beer in Australia, it was pretty lightweight on the actual brewing, more an OzFest showing old photos of bullockys drinking from bottles etc. However there was one interview about the takeover of Tooths by CUB way back and the first thing they did was to get rid of their house yeast. I wonder if that was the Melbourne 1 yeast, replaced by Fosters strains?


----------



## seehuusen (27/3/16)

Hey Peter, im doing the 1920's Resch Extra Stout (with a touch of Brett), this coming week.
I've got an Irish extra stout to brew up tomorrow, so while waiting on mash to finish, I'll try out making inverted sugar for the first time...

Actually, this beer is my swap beer for the qld xmas in July, i believe Bribie will be there, so I'll bring some extra bottles for tasters


----------



## Randai (28/3/16)

Hey peter. Just to let you know. I ended up putting the 1917 Resch old in a keg on the weekend. Man this high finishing gravity makes it sweet. But I don't know if its the mixing with the hops or the yeast I've used, but it definitely is putting off some "juiciness". I am not sure if I chalk that up to the late hop additions in the recipe or maybe its a touch infected... since I screwed around a lot with the fermenting beer this time, taking gravity samples.

Funnily enough seehuusen just brewed the 1920 Resch Extra Stout, I moved the grain bill around slightly since I didn't have Marris otter, but did have Ale Malt, so upped that some what. The invert I ended up making became quite dark, so I omitted the brewers caramel for colour this time.

Though I'd be really interested in the Brett in the beer. Let me know how it goes because I was really tempted to do it. But chickened out and am only going to use the WLP002/Wyeast1968.

Also seehuusen when making the invert I used citric acid and found that I put too much in, around 2 teaspoons for 1.35kg sugar (using the unholymess website ratios of water/sugar/acid). I found it definitely did have a bit of citric tang to it.
Last time I made invert for the Resch's Old I found that I put too little acid in and it did partially invert but wasn't super runny like golden syrup.


----------



## Jack of all biers (3/4/16)

Thanks all for this thread. Just saw it tonight. I ordered my copy of this book and the Lulu discount is still valid. I await its delivery with anticipation.


----------



## Randai (28/4/16)

So I ended up getting the Resch's Extra Stout on tap and going, after a bit of maturing period.
I think I ended up higher in the FG around 1.013 or 1.014 if I recall. Which even though high actually does have a thinner body than I would expect, probably just perception on my part.
But as far as taste, its a realy easy drinking stout, reminds me a bit of some Guinness Foreign Extra stout minus the tang, which I have heard is from Brett that Guinness mix (some stout fermented with brett?) into it. So if thats where the tang comes from, I'd say it'd land quite close. Can't say I taste much of the dry hops.
Also seems to definitely be even recently that Stouts still had the "tang" to it. Because was talking to my father about it recently and he recalled his grandfather being an avid stout drinker, and he sampled some where he said it really did have a huge amount of tang to it, apparently the old blokes loved it.

The Resch's Old turned out fantastic in the end, a bit sweeter, but not over the top once it had matured a tiny bit. Nice honeyish flavour from the East Kent Goldings. Honestly tasted like a bit of speciality malts were in there, even though mostly just base malt + sugar. Though I was thinking that maybe some of the flavour ends up coming from the Brewers Caramel. Sadly finished the keg last night but will look at the other Old recipes in the near future.


----------



## chaositic (28/4/16)

Just FYI that code posted way back in the thread 'LULURC' still works. I just ordered the book delivered for 20 buckeroos, pretty easy sell there!


----------



## Bribie G (28/4/16)

The 1917 Tooths (Kent Brewery) XXX - page 222 - is about ready for kegging. Had a sneaky thimble full out of the tap of the BrewBucket the other day and the first thing that struck me was that it was very much reminiscent of the beers that were still common in the 1970s when I first hopped over the border and visited Tenterfield / Grafton etc. Light body, lovely bitterness in the finish etc.

One thing that strikes me is that this book yet again explodes myths, namely that modern Australian beers are watery versions of much stronger and heartier brews. I'm surprised to see that beers between 4% and 4.5% ABV were quite commonplace throughout the 20th century and that stronger beers such as VB at 4.9% seem to be a post 1960s trend. There's an amusing brewery memo mentioned in the book where the NSW brewers in the 1940s were whining about Coopers who even then were making inroads into their patch with their ridiculously strong pale ales, and there was a fiendish plan to send someone to the UK with a slab of Coopers and get some English brewery to formulate a similar but better pale ale recipe that they could bring home with them to counter Coopers with, then bar Coopers from their pubs.

Shades of the Pepsi / Coke post mix wars of modern times 

Strength aside, it's obvious that "blandification" has been the major trend in the last 30 years.


----------



## Randai (28/4/16)

@Bribie G Yeah it does seem at least from the couple of beers I've given a go that, in the past, before my time that there really did seem to bit more going on in the megabrews.

I have been seeing that even in my short time, last decade a big shift from "XXXX, Crown, VB" to some more interesting stuff being available.


----------



## mosto (28/4/16)

Grabbed this book a few weeks ago, mainly for the recipes and intended to skim through the rest. However, I'm really enjoying the whole book. I only get to read a dozen or so pages each night after the kids are in bed, so getting through it slowly. I'm up to the Porters and Stouts section and have just gone past first couple of recipes. Looking forward to people's thoughts as they brew some of them. Between this book, and the BrewDog DIY Dog release, I've got a lot of brewing to do


----------



## Jack of all biers (28/4/16)

Korev said:


> No worries - no squibbing - here you go my personal favourites are
> 
> #1 1928 Bock p 329 as brewed by a certain Mr. B. Cranston - all the flavour characteristics of a Bock but around 4.4% ABV a wonderful quaffing beer - very moreish
> #2 1936 Oatmeal Stout p193 also brewed by Mr C - wonderful flavour, great drinkability, and so smooooooth
> ...


Peter,

Nearly finished your book and it is an insightful and great book. I really appreciate once reading the historical accounts and anecdotes that you included some of the English beers that were commonly imported to Australia at the different periods as it is a great comparison. I too liked the anecdote about Walkerville brewery trying to team up with Tooths or Tooheys and muscle out Coopers (like you said somewhere history keeps repeating). My favourite was your following the English brewer from Cascade to Macclesfield Brewery in SA and the comparison brews by the same guy. Very interesting and a piece of SA brewing history that I'd never heard of (the Old Kent Town brewery is now an apartment complex)

Just a question about your above 1916 Pale Ale that you mentioned a couple of times in this thread. I can't find it in the book? Is it a change on a recipe in one of the tables that shows the differences with the beers over the years and I missed it. Definately no recipe for a 1916 anything in the index of recipes Not a critisim, but just curious to find it


----------



## Korev (29/4/16)

Jack of all biers said:


> Peter,
> 
> Nearly finished your book and it is an insightful and great book. I really appreciate once reading the historical accounts and anecdotes that you included some of the English beers that were commonly imported to Australia at the different periods as it is a great comparison. I too liked the anecdote about Walkerville brewery trying to team up with Tooths or Tooheys and muscle out Coopers (like you said somewhere history keeps repeating). My favourite was your following the English brewer from Cascade to Macclesfield Brewery in SA and the comparison brews by the same guy. Very interesting and a piece of SA brewing history that I'd never heard of (the Old Kent Town brewery is now an apartment complex)
> 
> Just a question about your above 1916 Pale Ale that you mentioned a couple of times in this thread. I can't find it in the book? Is it a change on a recipe in one of the tables that shows the differences with the beers over the years and I missed it. Definately no recipe for a 1916 anything in the index of recipes Not a critisim, but just curious to find it


Glad that you enjoyed the book. You can find the bonus 1916 Pale ale recipe on my website 
[SIZE=11pt]http://prstemp.wix.com/tritun-books[/SIZE]

For some colour photos and other updates have a look at my FB page 
https://www.facebook.com/bronzedbrews/

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Korev (29/4/16)

Randai said:


> So I ended up getting the Resch's Extra Stout on tap and going, after a bit of maturing period.
> I think I ended up higher in the FG around 1.013 or 1.014 if I recall. Which even though high actually does have a thinner body than I would expect, probably just perception on my part.
> But as far as taste, its a realy easy drinking stout, reminds me a bit of some Guinness Foreign Extra stout minus the tang, which I have heard is from Brett that Guinness mix (some stout fermented with brett?) into it. So if thats where the tang comes from, I'd say it'd land quite close. Can't say I taste much of the dry hops.
> Also seems to definitely be even recently that Stouts still had the "tang" to it. Because was talking to my father about it recently and he recalled his grandfather being an avid stout drinker, and he sampled some where he said it really did have a huge amount of tang to it, apparently the old blokes loved it.
> ...


Interesting comment about the Old, I have often tasted crystal malt type flavours in my recreations, when none used! I put this down to the raw sugar having some amount of residual molasses flavour that comes through.

As for the stout what did you dry hop with? I have found that say 7g - 14g Cluster or even Cascade in 23l for a few days provides some bite. Alternatively or in addition you could do a small addition say 7g at 10 mins

From all that I have read the tang is from brett, added to the secondary.

Peter


----------



## Randai (29/4/16)

Korev said:


> Interesting comment about the Old, I have often tasted crystal malt type flavours in my recreations, when none used! I put this down to the raw sugar having some amount of residual molasses flavour that comes through.
> 
> As for the stout what did you dry hop with? I have found that say 7g - 14g Cluster or even Cascade in 23l for a few days provides some bite. Alternatively or in addition you could do a small addition say 7g at 10 mins
> 
> ...


Yeah odd that there really is/was some sort of more to it, than just "thinned to heck with sugar".
Only a guess, not substantiated by fact, but makes me think that maybe the refining process of sugar wasn't as great as it is now so the raw sugar back then would have had more of that unfermentable sort of flavour to it.

I ended up dry hopping with 34 grams of EKG, it might be there but I am not looking for it.
Heck I could even just dry hop in the keg to give it an extra boost.


----------



## Korev (29/4/16)

Randai said:


> Yeah odd that there really is/was some sort of more to it, than just "thinned to heck with sugar".
> Only a guess, not substantiated by fact, but makes me think that maybe the refining process of sugar wasn't as great as it is now so the raw sugar back then would have had more of that unfermentable sort of flavour to it.
> 
> I ended up dry hopping with 34 grams of EKG, it might be there but I am not looking for it.
> Heck I could even just dry hop in the keg to give it an extra boost.


I dry hopped my version with Cluster - EKG is probably too soft in a stout

Peter


----------



## Randai (29/4/16)

Korev said:


> I dry hopped my version with Cluster - EKG is probably too soft in a stout
> 
> Peter


Yeah I agree, just followed the recipe as listed. But for next time dry hopping a stout I'll look at something a bit more punchy


----------



## Jack of all biers (29/4/16)

Korev said:


> Glad that you enjoyed the book. You can find the bonus 1916 Pale ale recipe on my website
> [SIZE=11pt]http://prstemp.wix.com/tritun-books[/SIZE]
> 
> For some colour photos and other updates have a look at my FB page
> ...


Thanks Peter.


----------



## Bribie G (8/5/16)

I can't get over the fact that, despite the load of sugars in the wort I'm getting spectacular tight and persistent heads that follow through to the end of the glass. I remember from the 1970s that NSW beers were typified by big heads, whilst in QLD (who had only lager breweries from the 30s onwards) beer was served with no head and filled up to the top of the glass. At that time.

If a beer was served with a head or "collar" the typical response was "hey miss are you going to put a tie on it as well".


----------



## fletcher (8/5/16)

Korev said:


> Glad that you enjoyed the book. You can find the bonus 1916 Pale ale recipe on my website
> [SIZE=11pt]http://prstemp.wix.com/tritun-books[/SIZE]
> 
> For some colour photos and other updates have a look at my FB page
> ...


Peter, how do we vote for WLP059 to return? (or have i long missed the boat of adding my vote? or is it in production?)


----------



## Danwood (9/5/16)

Maybe you've already seen this, Fletch...
https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault

Scroll down to #16, if not


----------



## Korev (9/5/16)

fletcher said:


> Peter, how do we vote for WLP059 to return? (or have i long missed the boat of adding my vote? or is it in production?)


I have asked White Labs whether they could do something for the Australian market with 059. and it seems that their production processes now make providing a smaller batch sizes a problem. The Yeast Vault is only for US members of the customer club, so that does not really help us. So, unfortunately it is not likely that 059 will be in production any time soon.

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Korev (14/5/16)

Hi Guys,

I did another podcast this week on The Session http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-bronzed-brews/

Cheers
Peter


----------



## Bribie G (14/5/16)

Well that knocked a hole in my afternoon :lol:
Much appreciated, soon be beer o'clock.


----------



## huez (14/5/16)

Dunno how i missed this one, just ordered! I'll have a listen to that episode of the session whilst brewing tomorrow


----------



## Randai (14/5/16)

Definitely would buy the second book by the way Peter, the first was such a cracker!


----------



## Weizguy (15/5/16)

Korev said:


> I have asked White Labs whether they could do something for the Australian market with 059. and it seems that their production processes now make providing a smaller batch sizes a problem. The Yeast Vault is only for US members of the customer club, so that does not really help us. So, unfortunately it is not likely that 059 will be in production any time soon.
> 
> Cheers
> Peter


G'day Peter, did they give you an idea of how many we would have to buy to make it available in a single run?
Otherwise, an email campaign to Wyeast, like the W1469 effort?
Wyeast can source the culture from the UK, or maybe they have it already.

Yes, I bought your book, too!


----------



## jyo (15/5/16)

Can some of our site sponsors put some pressure on Wyeast? This yeast would sell for sure.


----------



## Bribie G (15/5/16)

Peter, whats your opinion on Reschs Orignal Draught on tap? 
Quaffing one now at the Woolgoolga RSL.
It's amber with a really earthy hop presence, and a lot more going on than most pale megaswill. 

I wonder if it's a XXX that got switched to lager yeast.


----------



## Jack of all biers (15/5/16)

Korev said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I did another podcast this week on The Session http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-bronzed-brews/
> 
> ...


Good one Pete, I like the plug at the end for the Yanks to vote for the Melbourne Ale No. 1. Hopefully there are 200 odd Americans that listened to the BN podcast that are willing to go to the White Labs site and vote for it. I'm sure there are more than 50 vials that would be sold in Australia, especially once more people on this forum start using it.




Bribie G said:


> Peter, whats your opinion on Reschs Orignal Draught on tap?
> Quaffing one now at the Woolgoolga RSL.
> It's amber with a really earthy hop presence, and a lot more going on than most pale megaswill.
> 
> I wonder if it's a XXX that got switched to lager yeast.


Bribie, I was over in Sydney in late April and had a pint of Reschs Draught at a pub. I saw the name and had just finished reading the book, so couldn't pass up the opportunity. I was not that impressed. It tasted to me like any Australian Draught lager. Blandish. Which of the big brewers are making this?


----------



## Rod (16/5/16)

MIK-E said:


> Just FYI that code posted way back in the thread 'LULURC' still works. I just ordered the book delivered for 20 buckeroos, pretty easy sell there!


Code not working now , assume it was LEAP25


----------



## Mardoo (16/5/16)

Just Google lulu.com discount code. They release new ones all the time.


----------



## Bribie G (16/5/16)

Reschs is made by CUB so probably brewed at Abbotsford nowadays. Sure it's much along the same lines as Toohey's New etc but I find it has a nice hop presence and a tiny bit of roast in the background - put it this way I always grab it over a 150 lashes in the venues where it's still sold, and it's quite different to VB, CD etc.

And no doubt a shadow of its former self but very reminiscent of how most NSW brews used to be in the 1970s when beer was called "the amber nectar"... the majority of todays megas certainly aren't amber any more.


----------



## TidalPete (16/5/16)

Just ordered.
AU$20.25 with free shipping.
Can't complain about that. 

Here's the link to the "LULURC" coupon at the top of the page ---- http://couponfollow.com/site/lulu.com?ref=2646841

Have a 1917 Tooths XXX bubbling away as I type.


----------



## Rod (16/5/16)

MIK-E said:


> Just FYI that code posted way back in the thread 'LULURC' still works. I just ordered the book delivered for 20 buckeroos, pretty easy sell there!


I am about to go away grey nomading can you PM when the book arrives so I know how long it takes


----------



## Bribie G (16/5/16)

Good work Pete, it's one of those books that you really need to go over several times till it clicks (Like the Yeast book etc).


----------



## fletcher (16/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> Reschs is made by CUB so probably brewed at Abbotsford nowadays. Sure it's much along the same lines as Toohey's New etc but I find it has a nice hop presence and a tiny bit of roast in the background - put it this way I always grab it over a 150 lashes in the venues where it's still sold, and it's quite different to VB, CD etc.
> 
> And no doubt a shadow of its former self but very reminiscent of how most NSW brews used to be in the 1970s when beer was called "the amber nectar"... the majority of todays megas certainly aren't amber any more.


said it before and i'll say it again. i love a good old reschs draught. will happily have it before a james squire or coopers. i can taste a difference between it and the likes of new and carlton etc. i agree i can pick up a very subtle roast and hop presence. any ideas on a recipe...or is it in the book?


----------



## paulyman (16/5/16)

Just listened to the podcast. Cross fingers the Americans jump on board and get this yeast across the line for us.


----------



## Danscraftbeer (16/5/16)

Ordered. B)

Just listened to the podcast too. Giggles at the end. What was that bird in the backround?
Those wacky Americans don't they have birds over there? :lol:

My hand up too for the Melbourne yeast.


----------



## Bribie G (16/5/16)

Not trying to derail the thread but WRT Reschs Draught, last night I stayed at the Woolgoolga Diggers up the road from Coffs.
While in Coffs I picked up a six of Zywiec at Dans - a lovely malty strong Polish Lager with restrained hopping but a nice decoction flavour to the malt.

Being a hot day I skulled one when we got into the motel then we headed over the carpark to the club section where I got into the Reschs.
I thought "this is going to taste like shyte" but to my surprise It held its head up very nicely .. more than VB or New would have done.

It's marketed with a big retro 1930s art deco look and I still wonder if it's one of those old survivors that they haven't fucked over too badly, and probably brewed as an ale originally, another example being Melbourne Bitter.


----------



## paulyman (16/5/16)

Nice, I've seen that on tap a few places of late, haven't been game to try. But will do. Has anyone tried Tooths Pale Ale I've noticed they have started marketing that in a few spots? If it was even remotely like the original then it would make a good tester against the brews in the book.


----------



## jyo (16/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> reschs draught 2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually looks to have a touch or roast or crystal in there judging by the colour...


----------



## Bruer (16/5/16)

Just bought my copy. Looking forward to seeing some older recipes.


----------



## Korev (17/5/16)

Randai said:


> Definitely would buy the second book by the way Peter, the first was such a cracker!


Working on it!

Peter


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (17/5/16)

Damn you NSW'ers, can't get Resch's down here in VIC, anywhere. Was keen to taste, so might have to wait until I'm up that way again. How common is it now in pubs around say North Ryde area?


----------



## Jack of all biers (17/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> Reschs is made by CUB so probably brewed at Abbotsford nowadays.


Given Abbotsford is in Victoria, would have thought it would be easier for a Melbournite (or is it Melburnian) to get their hands on it..... No wait, it's just a marketing thing... and they only have brought it back for the old New South Welshman that actually remember the ghost of the once former original brewery that was bought out by a larger competitor in 1929 before that same bigger brewery itself was bought out years later..... What would I know though, I'm just a South Aussie who suffers under a brewery that has remained in the same family for a hundred and fifty four years.... Except for that absolute shite that they brew near the River Torrens.....


----------



## Jack of all biers (17/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> It's marketed with a big retro 1930s art deco look and I still wonder if it's one of those old survivors that they haven't fucked over too badly, and probably brewed as an ale originally, another example being Melbourne Bitter.


I'm afraid Bribie, it's not art deco. Nor 1930's. Maybe late 1950's or early 1960's, but retro indeed. Designed to pull at the heart strings of those that might remember such times when the brand still was marketed by the once competitor that bought it out 30 odd years before in the hope that they will buy the beer to reminisce about times once experienced by them or their parents. Amazing the old marketing thing isn't it. Or am I getting too sceptical?... or possibly cynical?


----------



## jyo (17/5/16)

Korev said:


> Working on it!
> 
> Peter


Hey mate. Are you planning on including some history and recipes on Swan and Emu in WA?
Cheers.


----------



## GalBrew (17/5/16)

Jack of all biers said:


> I'm afraid Bribie, it's not art deco. Nor 1930's. Maybe late 1950's or early 1960's, but retro indeed. Designed to pull at the heart strings of those that might remember such times when the brand still was marketed by the once competitor that bought it out 30 odd years before in the hope that they will buy the beer to reminisce about times once experienced by them or their parents. Amazing the old marketing thing isn't it. Or am I getting too sceptical?... or possibly cynical?


The original painting of that particular image was commissioned in 1937.


----------



## Jack of all biers (18/5/16)

Well you might be right as you sound confident about it, but the person selling re-prints of the KB lager surfer (same image I believe) says it is a 1950's image. http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/oyster-bay/surfing/tooth-s-kb-lager-surf-s-up-photo-poster-325x500mm-beer-surfing/1040263990


----------



## GalBrew (18/5/16)

Don't believe everything you see on gumtree! (The eBay seller I bought a copy off said the same thing btw) http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/mob/collection/database/?irn=62062&img=125274


----------



## Jack of all biers (18/5/16)

I stand corrected and bow to your superior internet skills as I couldn't find it in the Powerhouse website when I searched. (the eBay seller is the same person as the Gumtree seller and claims they obtained the image (and permission to reprint it) from Tooths brewery in 1983.

EDIT - I stand by my dig at Carlton United Breweries re-hashing a beer brand that has twice been bought out, and now I realise they are using an image from a Tooths advertisement, it makes it even worse. Not even authentic advertising of the original product, but a completely different beer and brand. It's like they are more cynical than me.


----------



## GalBrew (18/5/16)

Jack of all biers said:


> I stand corrected and bow to your superior internet skills as I couldn't find it in the Powerhouse website when I searched. (the eBay seller is the same person as the Gumtree seller and claims they obtained the image (and permission to reprint it) from Tooths brewery in 1983.


Most of these awesome paintings were commissioned in the interwar period when Tooths went on a mad pub building/renovating/modernisation spree, with the paintings adorning the windows of the public bar to spruik the virtuous nature of their fine ales.


----------



## Bribie G (19/5/16)

Reschs was a Tooths brand since 1929.


----------



## Borneogoat (23/5/16)

jyo said:


> Can some of our site sponsors put some pressure on Wyeast? This yeast would sell for sure.


If it takes an order of significant quantity by a aussie HB supplier, I'd bet many of us would be happy to commit to a pre-order to justify the cost. I sure would....


----------



## Danscraftbeer (23/5/16)

Wow, that was quicker than I expected. Ordered last Monday night. At my door this morning for $20.25. :kooi:


----------



## seehuusen (23/5/16)

I brewed up the Resch Extra Stout (circa 1920) yesterday, been in the planning for a while, but just never eventuated until then. 
One of the things i was wondering, what purpose does the Parisian Essence hold in this beer? The wort coming out of the mash tun was still very dark, is it only to add extra colour, without the roast effect?
Was this comon practice in the past?


----------



## kaiserben (23/5/16)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Damn you NSW'ers, can't get Resch's down here in VIC, anywhere. Was keen to taste, so might have to wait until I'm up that way again. How common is it now in pubs around say North Ryde area?


I don't think anyone answered this so I will: 

I reckon you'll find it fairly easily. A lot of pubs around Sydney have a single reschs tap. If not, try go into a local rsl club. They're bound to have it.


----------



## Barry (23/5/16)

The Parisian Essence is purely for colour. it was common practice to use different caramel colouring agents to tweak the colour for consistent appearance.


----------



## Bribie G (23/5/16)

When I ran a LHBS in the late 1970s in Maryborough nearly every Dan 'n Dave 'n Uncle Cedric recipe that customers and their dads had brewed for years and proudly swore by, included a dash of Parisian essence.

Looking back I think there was some sort of "racial memory" amongst the Anzac generation about how beer was made, maybe from cousin Archie who worked at the brewery, whatever. Other ones being the almost exclusive use of raw sugar that we would get straight from the mill and repack into kilo bags, and the well known fact  that XXXX contains arsenic .. another racial memory perhaps of an unrelated arsenic scandal long ago involving invert sugar that's explained in the book.


----------



## Korev (24/5/16)

seehuusen said:


> I brewed up the Resch Extra Stout (circa 1920) yesterday, been in the planning for a while, but just never eventuated until then.
> One of the things i was wondering, what purpose does the Parisian Essence hold in this beer? The wort coming out of the mash tun was still very dark, is it only to add extra colour, without the roast effect?
> Was this comon practice in the past?


Yes, most Australian logs that I have seen have used caramel. Sometimes it seems for colour adjustment in pales beers, others where larger quantities used I think that there would have been a noticeable caramel flavour effect. The times that I have use Parisian Essence in stouts it has changed from a dark brown to a jet black.
Cheers
Peter


----------



## Rod (24/5/16)

Got my book 

going grey nomading for a couple of months , no homebrew 

something to read 

my wife saw the book , as she said another sex book


----------



## Bribie G (24/5/16)

One thing that puzzles me about the use of sugar is that, several times in the book, the original sources state that pre-war Australians preferred a sweeter beer, as provided by the malt - sugar beers as opposed to all malt beers.

I would have thought that the sugar would have dried out the flavour - are they referring to maybe a caramel character as opposed to just sugary sweetness?


----------



## Jack of all biers (26/5/16)

I think it has to do with the method bribie. High temp mashing to produce body and higher residual complex sugars post fermentation. Cane sugars for financial savings and to balance the full body effect of the high temp mashes.


----------



## Barry (27/5/16)

I think the reason was that malts grown/used in Australia up to the 1950's were fairly low in attenuation so the sugars were used to increase ADA. The higher malt temps are to compensate for the higher attenuation of modern malts. The use of modern malts, high percentages of sugar and the usual mash temps would create beers with much lower FG's than the brewing logs indicated. So this the is reason higher mash temps and yeasts with lower ADA's are used to recreate the old recipes. This is broad generalisation, Pete could give more precise reasons.
Hope this helps.


----------



## GABBA110360 (28/5/16)

got my copy yesterday and after a light browse through there is some interesting material in there well worth buying


----------



## nosco (28/11/17)

I guess this is the follow up to bronzed brews. "6 oclock brews.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/peter-symons/6-oclock-brews/paperback/product-23403094.html


----------



## Barry (29/11/17)

Yes, it is new book, Peter had so much left out of the first book, plus lots of news research material, he felt he had to write another book. I have read most of my copy already. The recipes have been tried and in some cases adjusted. One recipe I tried out for the first book was very ordinary both times I brewed it so it never made it in print (40% sugar, and that was the commercial recipe). Lots of Coopers recipes in this book. I get no commission but I it is must for anyone interested in Australian brewing history and the beers of the past.


----------

