# First BIAB attempt this weekend



## reardo (27/8/13)

Ok guys, i have a bucket load of nerves building up right now as i prepare for my first BIAB attempt on Saturday morning. I'll be teaming up with @longlostbelgian and we're going to split the result.

Below is what i have to start with, so if i'm missing something, feel free to remind me;

50 litre CUB Keg
4 ring burner with Gas bottle
Standard HB equipment (airlock, spoon, fermenter)
Thermometer
BIAB Bag (from Grain n Grape)

The recipe ill be using is somewhat of a copy to the Matilda Bay Fat Yak. I love this beer so for me it makes sense to try and emulate this style. This is what i'll be using;

[SIZE=11pt]96.2 5.10 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt 1.038 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3.8 0.20 kg. JWM Crystal 140 1.035 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]20.00 g. B Saaz 8.60 24.0 60 min.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]20.00 g. Cascade 5.00 2.8 10 min.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]20.00 g. Cascade 5.00 2.3 1 min.[/SIZE]

US05 Yeast


[SIZE=11pt]A ProMash Recipe Report[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Recipe Specifics[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]----------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Total Grain (kg): 5.30[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.48[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Anticipated EBC: 20.1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Anticipated IBU: 29.2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes[/SIZE]


A couple of things i'd appreciate being cleared up for me is what temp is recommended for mash in for this type of grain. Also, how much water should I start with before adding the grain to the bag? A guy told me 29 litres start, to allow for a 23 litre final.

Cheers guys


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## yum beer (27/8/13)

Grab a copy of brewmate...free download and set up BIAB in the settings and put your ingredients in there, it will tell you what you need.
Use the default numbers and adjust for future brews.

Does Promash not give you these numbers...


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## fletcher (27/8/13)

mash temp for that i'd probably go somewhere around 65C but that's a personal preference. it's right down the middle. like a default temp for mashing for a nice medium-bodied pale ale. if you want to tweak it from there then have at it, but i'd say start there as a guide line.

definitely download brewmate as per yum beer's recommendation. once you know your boil off rate and other losses, you'll be able to plan for them before brewing.


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## contrarian (28/8/13)

As a new BIAB brewer myself I would advise to not worry too much about specifics. Use it as an opportunity to get to know your equipment including boil off, turn loss etc. make sure you take lots of measurements but don't stress too much about what they are. 

For my first brew I was aiming to mash somewhere between 60C and 70C but preferably in the middle and ended up with 67C with a 2 degree drop over a 60 minute mash. At the end of the day I made beer and learnt a ton about the process and my gear which all fed into my next brew and about to do number 3 in the weekend with a slightly more complex recipe (my first 2 were SMaSHs). 

In my limited experience its a fairly forgiving process so don't do your head in about hitting all your numbers, just work through the process and make some beer. Once you've got the basics down you can worry about the finer details and more complicated processes!

Another Alice down the rabbit hole : )


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## philmud (28/8/13)

I reckon you'll want more strike water, but as others have said, brewmate will sort this out for you, just measure the diameter of the keggle.


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## Crusty (28/8/13)

Your boil off will be different to mine but simply do a 60min test boil before brew day, measure what you started with & what you end up with & adjust your boil off percentage in BrewMate.
Your trub loss can only be worked out once you do your first one but 3lt is a good starting point.
You can measure your grain temp too & put that figure into the grain temp column on the brew day sheet & that will calculate your strike water.


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## sp0rk (29/8/13)

Any reason why you're using B Saaz instead of Nelson Sauvin?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (29/8/13)

I would have gone Nelson Sauvin for a FY clone.

Agree also with comments viz Brew mate. Get it. If you punch in your numbers, I suspect for a single infusion mash a mash temp of 63-64 degrees, so calculate the strike temp (and strike water) based on that. 

As a guesstimate, I reckon that aiming for 23L of wort, will be about 31-32 of strike water, allowing for absorption losses.


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## Spiesy (30/8/13)

you've got a hydrometer, yes?


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## Spiesy (30/8/13)

Also, targeting for a 75% efficiency seems pretty high, especially for your first go.

You might be safer looking at 70, or just under. It's easier to dilute, if you overshoot, but it's harder to concentrate your final wort without messing up bitterness, flavour and colour.


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## Spiesy (30/8/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I would have gone Nelson Sauvin for a FY clone.
> 
> Agree also with comments viz Brew mate. Get it. If you punch in your numbers, I suspect for a single infusion mash a mash temp of 63-64 degrees, so calculate the strike temp (and strike water) based on that.
> 
> As a guesstimate, I reckon that aiming for 23L of wort, will be about 31-32 of strike water, allowing for absorption losses.


I reckon slightly more.

23l. 5.3kg grain (5.3l absorption) = 28.5l.
Trub, NFI, but let's go 2l. = 30.5l.
Evap for 60mins. I'm guessing maybe 3l, if it's not boiled too hard. = 33.5l.

How are you storing 23l after you've brewed? Not sure if a cube will hold that much.


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## wbosher (30/8/13)

Also very important, take notes and enjoy it. Taking notes about pre/post boil volumes and gravity readings, or pretty much anything you feel may be of use, this will allow you improve as you go. I don't do it so much now, but when I first started AG it helped immensely.

And most important, have fun, I'm sure you will. No point doing this if you don't enjoy the brewing process. As others have said, don't worry too much about hitting all your targets, that why you take notes, to improve over time.

Welcome to the slippery slide into AG brewing.


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## reardo (2/9/13)

Thanks guys. I appreciate all help and advice.

Well, the brewing is complete. Started at 12:30pm on Saturday and finished about 4:45pm. Not bad considering i allowed 5 hours from start to finish.

The ingredients list was a print out from the guys at grain and grape in yarraville. i did notice that the sheet recommended B Saaz over Nelson. I checked on the Matilda Bay website that they use Nelson, but for the purpose of using this copy, i continued with what was recommended.

So on the sheet, 30 litres of strike water was what i started with. Grains went in and temp read at 65deg. it dropped after 30 mins to 63 deg then i restarted it for a couple of mins to get back to 65. same occured after 50mins so that process was started again.

Now, here I think is where I may have made a mistake. After 60mins of mash time, i lifted the bag and letthe liquid drain back into the keg. i then got my sidekick to "Squeeze the bag", which now i think may have been a bad idea.....

Anyhow, we Moved on and began the boil. 20gms of B Saaz went in at the start, 20gm of Cascade at 20mins, then 20gm cascade at 1 min. God damn it smelt so good I could have stuck my head in right then! Anyhow, I put my sterilized wort chiller in the keg and let it go to work. 25 mins later the wort was 24deg, transferred to fermenter, yeast pitched and whalla – my first BIAB complete. 

I ended up with 23 litres of beer. The OG was only 1.052, compared to 1.055 I was expecting. It was a little darker than i thought but I suppose the taste is what counts.


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## wbosher (2/9/13)

Sounds like a successful brewday, well done. :icon_cheers:

Why do you think squeezing the bag is bad idea?


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## syl (2/9/13)

^^ I'd say he was worried about extracting tannins. Anywho, squeezing is fine/good!

It will also lighten up over the ferment, cold crash it at the end and enjoy!


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## reardo (2/9/13)

Well that is a relief! Here I was thinking that if you squeexed the bag, it could ruin your beer. I recon i read that somewhere, and yes, something about extracting tannins was the potential issue.

Syl, what is cold crashing? I dont think i've ever done it...


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## wbosher (2/9/13)

Cold crashing is just dropping the temp down to as cold as you can get it for a few days once fermentation is complete.

I'll generally wait until the gravity readings are stable (or at least very close to finishing), raise it to 20 for a couple of days for the yeast to clean up, then drop to 0 degrees for two or three days. I helps drop the yeast (among other things) out of suspension, so that they don't carry across to the bottles/keg. Makes for a very clear beer without the need for gelatine. 

Edit: You still get enough yeast to carb the bottles up though, just takes a little longer.


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## reardo (2/9/13)

Ok. Thanks for the tip.

I'm hoping to have the keg drinkable for my missus 30th on the 14th of sept. May not be the cleanest or best tasting beer around, but hopefully it should be a hit amongst others!


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## fletcher (2/9/13)

after fermenting is complete, drop the temperature of the fermenting fridge (if you have one) down. i usually drop it to 1-2C. keep it there for a good few days before bottling and it helps the yeast and sediment drop out, making it a clearer beer

EDIT: beaten!


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## stm (2/9/13)

Also, there shouldn't be any need to keep re-heating the mash. If you just put some sort of lid on the keggle and wrap it in a couple of sleeping bags or blankets, it ought to drop only one or two degrees over the 60min, which is fine.

Sanitising the chiller - you don't need to separately sanitise it before dropping it into the wort. Just drop it in with 10 or 15 mins to go of the boil, and that will sanitise it (as long as it is clean).


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## Milk-lizard84 (2/9/13)

Hi guys, just wanted to add something to this thread as I've just completed my second biab. Just want to ask if anyone gets much trub in there cube after no chilling. I just cubed a smash I made with marris otter pale malt and citra hops. It has about maybe 3 liters of trub. Was still quite abit in the keggle as well.
Cheers


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## reardo (8/9/13)

It's been a full 7 days now and the hydrometer reads 1.014 now. That tells me a 4.99% Abv. 
Is it now time to cold crash for a couple of days? After that it's going straight into the keg for next weekends shindig


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## manticle (8/9/13)

Allow it to finish and condition first. Removing the beer from the yeast too early or rendering the yeast inactive too early is the most common cause of residual acetaldehyde that I'm aware of. Tastes variously like green apple skin, paint emulsion or pumpkin skin depending on amounts and your palate and perception/threshold.

Give it a few more days and look at force carbing for your shindig.


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## BeerNess (8/9/13)

Milk-lizard84 said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to add something to this thread as I've just completed my second biab. Just want to ask if anyone gets much trub in there cube after no chilling. I just cubed a smash I made with marris otter pale malt and citra hops. It has about maybe 3 liters of trub. Was still quite abit in the keggle as well.
> Cheers


That's the cold break and misc trub, certainly nothing to worry about!! it all drops out in the fermenter and there has been much speculation h34r: that some trub is beneficial to the fermentation. It doesn't seem to have been doing any harm to my brews at all. :drinks:


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## Milk-lizard84 (8/9/13)

Sweet thanks for the beerness. I was just curious as my first attempt at biab didn't have as much trub in the cube. Really looking forward to trying the fruits of my labour. Biab is actually fairly easy and more enjoyable that k&k. Thanks again


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## reardo (9/9/13)

Thanks manticle, but as soon as i posted i had to head out and didn't catch your reply 30 mins later. So on my way out, i cranked the fridge down to 2 deg......I hope this will not ruin my beer :unsure:

I do have a cider ready to keg so im hoping that will make up for the bad flavours on the beer if there are any...


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## reardo (10/9/13)

Cold crashed for 2 days now. Will keg tonight and force carb. By belly rumbles as I type :chug:


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## syl (10/9/13)

When the fermentation is complete I remove the bottom draw in the fridge in the kitchen and put my fermenter in there! The missus loves this! I'm not using my other fridges for 2 degrees!


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## reardo (12/9/13)

Haha funny about that syl. After i took my shelves out of my fridge (shed fridge) I put the fermenter in to crash chill. This is a new fridge i picked up only 2 weeks ago so i was unsure of the output of chill. I checked it after 2 days, opened it up and the top 3 inches were frozen!

Anyhow, i've managed to defrost my beer... and transfer to the keg. Without sounding too premature, it is the best smelling, best tasting pre carbonated beer i've made. i cannot wait to pour that first one on Friday night! I bought a couple of Fat Yaks to compare so it will be interesting to see how my first BIAB turned out!


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## woodwormm (13/9/13)

Pretty certain it'll be the best beer you've ever made... my first BIAB was, only up to my 3rd and they get better!


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## citizensnips (13/9/13)

yeah your first AG is really a special moment....that said always aim low


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## reardo (16/9/13)

Well, it turned out pretty damn good. It was a little easy on the hoppiness, so i think if i were to do it again (this recipe) i'd use the previously recommended Nelson Sauvin hops. I was shocked at how clear the beer was after the crash chill. I have had KnK kits condition in my keg for two weeks that don't come out as clear as this brew. I can totally see why people say once you go there you never go back.

I also made a cider to accompany this beer, but at a final ABV of 6.3%, fortunately only half of the beer was consumed, so i have a little bit left to keep me happy this weekend.

Anyhow, I'm planning my next brew for Saturday week.

Reardo.


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## fletcher (16/9/13)

good on you mate. sounds like it was a cracking success. i know the feeling of moving to BIAB too, and it's 100% worth it!

now is the best time to start figuring out what grains and what hops add what flavours; and also the variance of the specialty grains you can use (and yeasts!). once you know that, it opens up by 1000000% and you can tweak and bend and make recipes til you're blue in the face.

a good way to do this is doing some single malt and single hop beers (SMASH); maybe with a touch of medium crystal, so you can really get an idea of it. try it again with another hop, or another yeast, or a different grain bill and you can then identify what tastes are from what ingredient etc.

welcome to BIAB mate.


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## Byran (16/9/13)

What did that bloke say at the ISB meeting fletcher?..."the more you learn about brewing, you realise how much more you have to learn"

Stoked it went well mate AG is the best fun so much to learn and create, so many flavours to enjoy.


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## reardo (16/9/13)

Thanks fellas :beer:


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## fletcher (16/9/13)

Byran said:


> What did that bloke say at the ISB meeting fletcher?..."the more you learn about brewing, you realise how much more you have to learn"
> 
> Stoked it went well mate AG is the best fun so much to learn and create, so many flavours to enjoy.


haha, bloody oath mate. you start tweaking things and buying that "little" piece of gear that costs you $250+ and it's a downhill spiral from there.


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## Byran (16/9/13)

Ha ha and then you go to the pub and you dont want to drink anything cause you think its all shit now........


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## wbosher (16/9/13)

Ain't that the truth Byran. I really struggle to find a beer that I like down at my local now.  Never used to be a problem...


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## reardo (8/10/13)

Will be starting a second BIAB this weekend with fellow brewer longlostbelgian. We're doing the same recipe, but the hoppiness in the first attempt wasnt as high as i'd hoped. To increase this, should I be increasing the boil time orsimply add more hops at 30mins or there abouts?


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## Rocker1986 (8/10/13)

How long are you planning to boil it?

It depends on what you're after from the hops. Basically if you want more bitterness then add more hops at the start of the boil, if you want more hoppy flavours and such, add more hops late in the boil.


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## technobabble66 (8/10/13)

Basic theory is:
Flavour additions around the 10-20min mark (i think the 20min is meant to be optimum, but you'll get more bittering also (cf. at 10min), which can limit the amount you can add here without over-bittering)
Aroma additions are right at the end, 0-5min mark (0, or flameout, is meant to be best for this).

So to answer your question, to increase the hoppy _flavour_ i'd just add more hops at the 10-20min mark. 


I've limited experience, so i'm mainly quoting just the _theory_ here.


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## wbosher (8/10/13)

reardo said:


> Will be starting a second BIAB this weekend with fellow brewer longlostbelgian. We're doing the same recipe, but the hoppiness in the first attempt wasnt as high as i'd hoped. To increase this, should I be increasing the boil time orsimply add more hops at 30mins or there abouts?


If you want to just increase the bitterness, increase the 60 min addition and leave the rest alone. If you use brewing software, you can calculate your desired IBUs this way. For flavour/aroma, add later as others have said.


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## reardo (8/10/13)

Ok thanks fellas. Will add more hops to the early boil. It needs to be more bitter and have a better aroma, so ill hop in at flame out.

Cheers


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## reardo (14/10/13)

OK. Plans changed. We did the exact same recipe. Basically after some discussion, we will keep this recipe as is and try another one next time around. Anyhow, we finished 2 batches on Saturday. one Keg for longlostbelgian and one for me.

For interests sake, i have a twitter page for my homebrew. if anone cares to want to take a look at the pics from the brewday it is @gvhomebrew - (not sure if this is allowed on the forum, so sorry if it isn't)


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