# Simple Cider



## Budron (22/9/09)

Hey guys,

Just wanted to rub it in and let you know that I just cracked my simple cider that I put on a few weeks ago.
And it's fekking good. :icon_cheers: 

It was only 
21 litres of woolies apple juice
and a wyeast 4766

OG 1040
FG 1010

Kegged it a couple of days ago and poured a glass tonight.
I must say I'm very impressed from such "simple" ingredients
It's not too bitter and quite cloudy. Would have been nice to run it through a filter, but all is good.
I think a few more batches might be on the cards with summer coming up and SWMBO finally appreciating all the money I've put into brewing/kegging.

Cheers,

Budron.


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## pdilley (23/9/09)

Budron said:


> Just wanted to rub it in and let you know that I just cracked my simple cider that I put on a few weeks ago.
> And it's fekking good. :icon_cheers:




Beauty Budron!

Congrats on the cider, it only can get better from hear on out! Once you are up for a different taste you can try moving towards malty ciders like a graff or move up to adding other juices in like pear juice or even moving up to freshly pressed apples. And you always have simple cider to fall back on when you want something quick and easy.

Keep on brewin'

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## InCider (23/9/09)

Great work Budron!

What ABV% does it work out to be? I've made a few (no kidding with my nickname!) But have yet to get around to an all juice 'zoider'

As Brewer Pete said, pear juice is a great thing to add. I add it most of the time.

BP - what is this graff you speak of! I have added malt before, but with no success...

Cheers,

Sean


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## Budron (23/9/09)

It ended up being about 4.5% if I remember correctly.

I think I will definitely try the pear juice too next time. What about apple & raspberry juice?


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## InCider (23/9/09)

Budron said:


> It ended up being about 4.5% if I remember correctly.
> 
> I think I will definitely try the pear juice too next time. What about apple & raspberry juice?



So many juices to try! Thanks for that Budron - I don't use a 'thingy' when I brew ciders, I just set, forget and keg. I wanted to make sure it wasn't too weak or strong. Sounds fine. 

Cheers,

Sean


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## Scruffy (23/9/09)

InCider said:


> BP - what is this graff you speak of! I have added malt before,



I'm dabbling with some DME. 
I'm on two and a half apple, two and a half pear and a couple of Nelson Sauvin flowers (yeah I know!!) and 300g of Amber or Light DME boiled in 'some water' - bumps up the OG and leaves some sweetness (the cheaper juice tends to finish a little tart...). I'm using the Craftbrewer version of WLP001/1056... but having said that, I've got some 1214 left from an experiment...

I'll let you know (1st Aussie Cider)! It's only a gallon, what could possibly go wrong?


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## pdilley (23/9/09)

InCider said:


> BP - what is this graff you speak of! I have added malt before, but with no success...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Sean




Sean and others interested in a next venture after simple ciders,

Graff is a slightly hopped malty cider and a recipe for it can be found in this post.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Stagwa (25/9/09)

Hi Guys,



I have put down a simple cider (and my first cider only ever done Beer):



10 l Coles apple Juice (99.9% pure yeah right)

Sachet of Coopers kit yeast



Pitched on Wednesday night and have some signs of fermentation condensation and airlock activity but no Krausen. Will cider form a krausen? How does the cider fermentation differ from beer?



Cheers


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## manticle (25/9/09)

Pretty similar. Fermenting lower and longer is better and you may get some sulphur smells during ferment. You can condition these out or they will dissipate with ageing.


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## crinos (28/9/09)

I'm in the process of making a "simple cider" at the moment, but mine seems to be coming out way more potent... 

21L Coles apple juice($1/litre... not bad) + 1 sachet crappy Coopers kit yeast

The OG was 1046, and it's now down to 1004(possibly with further to go!), so about 6%. It's made some pretty funky sulphur smells during fermentation, but tastes pretty good already considering it's still in the primary. Fermented at 16-18 degrees, and it's had over a week, and gravity is still dropping slowly.

Unfortunately I don't have the option of adding malt, because it's for my coeliac wife, who's off lactose now as well(!!!) so might look to the pear juice next time for some extra body/sweetness if this one is a bit thin/dry.

Stagwa: sounds like we made an identical recipe, right down to the crappy Coopers kit yeast. Mine didn't krausen at all, but the airlock bubbled like mad after a couple of days, and the gravity has been dropping consistently, so I wouldn't worry about a lack of dirty old foam on the top 

My n00bish guess would be that the total lack of protein in the apple juice would prevent the krausen from forming, same reason cider doesn't hold a head. I'm sure an expert on the matter will correct me if I'm wrong


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## Scruffy (28/9/09)

There.


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## Airgead (29/9/09)

crinos said:


> Unfortunately I don't have the option of adding malt, because it's for my coeliac wife, who's off lactose now as well(!!!) so might look to the pear juice next time for some extra body/sweetness if this one is a bit thin/dry.
> 
> Stagwa: sounds like we made an identical recipe, right down to the crappy Coopers kit yeast. Mine didn't krausen at all, but the airlock bubbled like mad after a couple of days, and the gravity has been dropping consistently, so I wouldn't worry about a lack of dirty old foam on the top
> 
> My n00bish guess would be that the total lack of protein in the apple juice would prevent the krausen from forming, same reason cider doesn't hold a head. I'm sure an expert on the matter will correct me if I'm wrong



Spot on with the reason for the lack of krausen. I dunno about the pear juice adding body and sweetness though. It will ferment down just as much as the apple juice will. If you keg you always have the option of back sweetening (honey works well). If not its pretty much down to the choice of yeast and the management of fermentation (keeving, nutrients, temp, etc) to get the sweeter finish.

Cheers
Dave


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## crinos (29/9/09)

Airgead said:


> Spot on with the reason for the lack of krausen. I dunno about the pear juice adding body and sweetness though. It will ferment down just as much as the apple juice will. If you keg you always have the option of back sweetening (honey works well). If not its pretty much down to the choice of yeast and the management of fermentation (keeving, nutrients, temp, etc) to get the sweeter finish.



I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading someone saying that pear juice made it a little less dry than 100% apple juice. Might be total crap, but I read it somewhere(possibly on this forum)!

I think I might need to find a lower attenuation yeast next time, came out a bit stronger(and probably drier, but can't verify that until it's bottled) than I intended... are there any cheaper options than the Wyeast cider yeast? Part of the appeal of this recipe is that it's pretty cheap and cheerful...


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## Stagwa (29/9/09)

Hi Guys,

My simple cider has been going for about a week now - I haven't had any samples yet.

Manitcle: I haven't had any sulphur yet but the fermenting fridge smells like apples - did have a bunged up nose so couldn't smell much.

Crinos: You could sweeten with some lactose next time? How dry is it say compared to a commercial cider?


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## Airgead (29/9/09)

crinos said:


> I can't remember where I read it, but I remember reading someone saying that pear juice made it a little less dry than 100% apple juice. Might be total crap, but I read it somewhere(possibly on this forum)!
> 
> I think I might need to find a lower attenuation yeast next time, came out a bit stronger(and probably drier, but can't verify that until it's bottled) than I intended... are there any cheaper options than the Wyeast cider yeast? Part of the appeal of this recipe is that it's pretty cheap and cheerful...



I've used one of the English ale yeasts quite successfully. Can't remember off the top of my head which one but I think it was wlp005. The pommy yeasts tend to be low attenuators but you have to be careful as we aren't dealing with wort here. The mix of sugars is different so even a low attenuating beer yeast can pull a cider down surprisingly dry.

I find back sweetening the easiest method but I keg all my ciders so I don't end up with bottle bombs.

Cheers
Dave


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## crinos (29/9/09)

Stagwa said:


> Crinos: You could sweeten with some lactose next time? How dry is it say compared to a commercial cider?



I don't have the option of lactose when it's for my wife, as she needs to stay away from that as well as gluten! If she develops a yeast intolerance, it's time to just give up 

It's still in primary, so I can't say yet... but going by how much gravity it's eaten it's way through, I'm guessing that it will be pretty dry...



Airgead said:


> I've used one of the English ale yeasts quite successfully. Can't remember off the top of my head which one but I think it was wlp005. The pommy yeasts tend to be low attenuators but you have to be careful as we aren't dealing with wort here. The mix of sugars is different so even a low attenuating beer yeast can pull a cider down surprisingly dry.
> 
> I find back sweetening the easiest method but I keg all my ciders so I don't end up with bottle bombs.



Sounds like we might have to put up with dry ciders until I get the kegging setup. I might try S-04 next time, just because it's cheap and readily available... 

Making dry cider in general shouldn't be a problem, because both of our favourite cider is Mercury Dry. If I can get something similar to that, I'd be very happy. Just as long as it doesn't come out TOO dry!


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## Airgead (30/9/09)

crinos said:


> I don't have the option of lactose when it's for my wife, as she needs to stay away from that as well as gluten! If she develops a yeast intolerance, it's time to just give up
> 
> It's still in primary, so I can't say yet... but going by how much gravity it's eaten it's way through, I'm guessing that it will be pretty dry...
> 
> ...



I have the same problem as you with the lactose. The missus is allergic so that's out. Even mercury dry is pretty sweet compared to a really dry cider. A lot of yeasts will pull a cider down to 1.000 and that's bone dry. Some yeasts that are poor attenuators in wort will dry a cider right out. 

The traditional way (in some areas) to do a sweet cider is to keeve the juice but that involves using home made juice. It can't be done with shop bought. I'll try keeving next year on one batch and see how it goes. There is a thread on it here somewhere. You can also find a yeast with poor alcohol tolerance and make a more wine style cider that pushes the yeast beyond its tolerance which will prevent re-fermentation and leave some residual sweetness. you are looking at a cider of at least 10% though. Probably stronger. 

Back sweetening in the keg is easiest though. If this is for the missus you may have a good way of getting permission for a kegging system... "But honey, its to make your ciders better..."

Cheers
Dave


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## komodo (30/9/09)

Berri 3L juice varieties are onsale at woollies at the moment 2 for $5. Cheap easy keg filler and great for the spring time!


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## crinos (2/10/09)

Airgead said:


> Back sweetening in the keg is easiest though. If this is for the missus you may have a good way of getting permission for a kegging system... "But honey, its to make your ciders better..."



It might fly if I can convince her that it will make the cider specifically more like Mercury Dry or Artisan 



Komodo said:


> Berri 3L juice varieties are onsale at woollies at the moment 2 for $5. Cheap easy keg filler and great for the spring time!



Great price! Even beats the $1/litre Coles price. 6x3L = $15 for 1 keg/2 cartons of pretty drinkable cider. I know from now on I'll be keeping an eye out for apple juice specials


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## Airgead (2/10/09)

crinos said:


> It might fly if I can convince her that it will make the cider specifically more like Mercury Dry or Artisan



It will let you dial the sweetness right to where you want it. Let it ferment out dry then pull of 100ml. Make up a sugar syrup of 50g sugar and 50ml water. Add it ml by ml and get the missus to taste each time. When she tells you its perfect you can scale up the mls/100ml to a mls/howevermuchyouhave and set it exactly where she wants it.

Go for it...

Cheers
dave


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## petesbrew (18/10/09)

G'day guys,
SWMBO has commissioned me to brew a dry cider. As far as cider goes, we're megaswill drinkers, so let's just say strongbow dry, and aim up from there.
Been doing a bit of searching the last 30min and so far have the following.

23L Apple juice
Champagne yeast.
Anything else I need? 
How long does cider take to ferment? Best temperature?
Cheers
Pete


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## manticle (18/10/09)

Are you kegging or bottling? If bottling you might need a bit of lactose. I added lactose to my recent cider done with white wine yeast. Still drier than a three oaks dry (and quite nice to my taste buds).

I reckon it's best to ferment low - 12-14 and treat it a bit like a lager. The wine/champagne yeast should be able to cope with those temps. Obviously lower it takes longer. Cold condition it for at least a week or more and it's drinkable sooner.


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## petesbrew (19/10/09)

manticle said:


> Are you kegging or bottling? If bottling you might need a bit of lactose. I added lactose to my recent cider done with white wine yeast. Still drier than a three oaks dry (and quite nice to my taste buds).
> 
> I reckon it's best to ferment low - 12-14 and treat it a bit like a lager. The wine/champagne yeast should be able to cope with those temps. Obviously lower it takes longer. Cold condition it for at least a week or more and it's drinkable sooner.


Cheers Manticle,
Haven't got a brewfridge, but with a bit of effort, I can get it down to about 18c with freezer bricks & a dark room.
I'll be bottling these. Is the priming rate the same as for beer?
Pete


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## manticle (19/10/09)

18 will be fine. I like to ferment low but it seems to give a nice clean result and those wine yeasts allow that range. Cidermaking articles I've read have suggested a low ferment but 18 will do it. 

The reason I asked about kegging is if you keg, you can stop the ferment when you hit the desired level of sweetness. If you bottle, like me, then you can't and champagne and wine yeast will take you to 1000 which is absolutely bone dry. I'd recommend 200-500g lactose in there as well. 

Keep all the juice bottles, fill them with water and freeze them. They make great cooling insulators - it's how I chill my AG wort to pitching temp and how I keep my lager and cider temps down.


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## petesbrew (19/10/09)

manticle said:


> 18 will be fine. I like to ferment low but it seems to give a nice clean result and those wine yeasts allow that range. Cidermaking articles I've read have suggested a low ferment but 18 will do it.
> 
> The reason I asked about kegging is if you keg, you can stop the ferment when you hit the desired level of sweetness. If you bottle, like me, then you can't and champagne and wine yeast will take you to 1000 which is absolutely bone dry. I'd recommend 200-500g lactose in there as well.
> 
> Keep all the juice bottles, fill them with water and freeze them. They make great cooling insulators - it's how I chill my AG wort to pitching temp and how I keep my lager and cider temps down.


Thanks for the tips, mate.
Looking forward to getting it started. I'll start searching for specials on juice.


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## Greg Lawrence (19/10/09)

petesbrew said:


> Thanks for the tips, mate.
> Looking forward to getting it started. I'll start searching for specials on juice.




Hi Pete

I found that the Aldi jiuce was fairly cheap. Under $1/L from memory.
I recently did a 24L batch with champagne yeast and a bit of nutrient.
It took roughly 4-5 weeks in the fermenter and ended up very dry (way dryer than strongbrow dry), so when I kegged it, I added 2L of apple juice to 17L of cider. Turned out pretty good.
Guess this would not be an option for bottling.
I'll bring a bottle along next Pizza night (you may need to remind me).
I have also done the above cider with 1/2 Kg of LDME. SWMBO didnt like this one as much.


Greg


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## petesbrew (19/10/09)

Gregor said:


> Hi Pete
> 
> I found that the Aldi jiuce was fairly cheap. Under $1/L from memory.
> I recently did a 24L batch with champagne yeast and a bit of nutrient.
> ...


Cheers Greg
You brought that LDME one the other month didn't you?


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## Greg Lawrence (19/10/09)

I think that was the one, but not too sure.


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## petesbrew (21/10/09)

So is champagne yeast the way to go?
I have a spare satchet of US-05, heaps of leftover coopers yeasts (don't we all?), and assorted liquid cultures.


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## manticle (21/10/09)

I'd go champagne or 05. Champagne will dry it out a lot more, 05 less so. I'm also interested in trying as lager yeast with my next one.


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## petesbrew (21/10/09)

manticle said:


> I'd go champagne or 05. Champagne will dry it out a lot more, 05 less so. I'm also interested in trying as lager yeast with my next one.


Cheers. I'll flip a coin closer to the brewdate.


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## crinos (22/10/09)

I fear my cider might be screwed.... after bottling the lot, I found the rubber grommet from an airlock sitting in the yeastcake... absolutely no idea how it got there...

Been in the bottle for 2 weeks, just cracked one open... and I'm not sure if it's going to be ok... there were certainly a heap of sulphur smells when fermenting, and I'm definitely getting some in the glass too, and some other minor off flavours

I might leave it for another couple of weeks, test it again and see if the flavour has improved(might just be too young!) and if not, tip it and get my bottles back!

Almost zero carbonation in this bottle for some reason, but on the upside, it's crystal clear and not as dry as I thought it was going to be, given the huge drop in gravity(I think it was 1046-1002).

Strong as hell though, I forgot to grab lunch before trying it, and it's gone straight to my head. Must eat something to make the fuzziness go away...


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## Stagwa (22/10/09)

crinos said:


> Strong as hell though, I forgot to grab lunch before trying it, and it's gone straight to my head. Must eat something to make the fuzziness go away...



NOOOO! Don't eat anything, just enjoy the fuzziness!


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## manticle (22/10/09)

crinos said:


> I fear my cider might be screwed.... after bottling the lot, I found the rubber grommet from an airlock sitting in the yeastcake... absolutely no idea how it got there...
> 
> Been in the bottle for 2 weeks, just cracked one open... and I'm not sure if it's going to be ok... there were certainly a heap of sulphur smells when fermenting, and I'm definitely getting some in the glass too, and some other minor off flavours
> 
> ...



Cider often takes longer to age than beer (obviously dependent on beer) , sulphur is usual (and dissipates with time) and carbonation on one of my recent ones took at least 3 weeks. I can't imagine a rubber grommet will do too much unless it came from your bum. Don't be in a hurry to chuck it.


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## komodo (22/10/09)

I had sulphur smells the first time I did a batch of cider.
I had read about adding copper sulphate to wine and cider to prevent this (apparently the copper adds some kind of nutrient for the yeast?)
Any way I wasnt game to try it but was speaking to a guy at work who makes distilled "water" and occasionally makes wine (has his on mini vineyard). He said that he was told to add a bit of sanitied copper pipe into the must to add enough nutrient to avoid most of the sulphur smell. IMO it works!

Cider is funny the way it goes to your legs straight away. I can knock back a couple of (about) 5.5% beers and not notice them. Give me two glasses of cider and I'm happy to grab hold of the bench - especially with "home brewed" cider.


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## Peteoz77 (22/10/09)

I have been brewing "Hard Cider" for a couple of years now, and I use Woolies or Aldi juice, 1 KG Dextrose, and Lalvin cider yeast. It finished pretty dry (.995 or so) and I keg it. It gets better with age. However, the initial firmentation takes at least 12 weeks! Leave it sit until it becomes clear.


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## manticle (22/10/09)

Komodo said:


> I had sulphur smells the first time I did a batch of cider.
> I had read about adding copper sulphate to wine and cider to prevent this (apparently the copper adds some kind of nutrient for the yeast?)
> Any way I wasnt game to try it but was speaking to a guy at work who makes distilled "water" and occasionally makes wine (has his on mini vineyard). He said that he was told to add a bit of sanitied copper pipe into the must to add enough nutrient to avoid most of the sulphur smell. IMO it works!
> 
> Cider is funny the way it goes to your legs straight away. I can knock back a couple of (about) 5.5% beers and not notice them. Give me two glasses of cider and I'm happy to grab hold of the bench - especially with "home brewed" cider.



Fermenting low and 7+ days cold conditioning also helps (or at least the two batches I did that were done this way came out with no sulphur odour)


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## crinos (23/10/09)

As luck would have it, I just inherited a working bar fridge which fits 20-ish longnecks, so I'll give the cider a couple of weeks in there and see how it goes. :icon_cheers:


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## Tom909 (6/9/12)

Hi everyone.

Sorry for dragging up this old thread, but i'm going to be brewing one of these over the next few weeks and was wondering how much to prime my cider with? I normally go with about 150g of dex for my ales, but i'm guessing a cider needs to be a bit higher? Anyone have any advice?

Thanks.


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## manticle (6/9/12)

Personal taste entirely.

Cider doesn't need to be anything apart from what you want it to be.

I carb mine low (around 110-120 g per 20-ish L)


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