# Beer Smith - Burton Of Trent Water Profile



## BOG (27/10/08)

Can someone confirm my Burton on Trent Water Profile from BeerSmith.

This is what the software states as my additions are to a Sydney Water Profile for Prospect Res.
It seem like a lot of minerals (34 grams) for just 16 litres of water (yes I use small batches, with losses it makes one keg.)


Does anyone see similar mineral aditions?



BOG





Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 15.00 L 
Boil Size: 15.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.000 SG
Estimated Color: 0.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 0.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.00 gm Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
7.00 gm Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
23.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
15.00 L Burton On Trent, UK Water 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 4.54 kg
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ERROR - All Grain/Partial Mash recipe contains no mash steps

Notes:
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## Stuster (27/10/08)

That looks about right to me. But personally, I think that's far too much chemical to add. It might be that it gets you to Burton-on-Trent water, but is that really a good thing? What is your reason for getting that profile?


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## gibbocore (27/10/08)

hey mate, sorry for the slight off topic, but are you able to point me in the direction of where you got the water profile ad if i would use the same water in the shire?


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## Stuster (27/10/08)

To answer your question, gibbocore, you can get the water profile for your water from here. Looks like you get water either from Prospect or Woronora. Both are really soft and don't need much except a bit more calcium and some adjustment for residual alkalinity depending on the beer.


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## gibbocore (27/10/08)

i'm a bit of a water nub, but i thought 7-8ph is hard? or am i way off?


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## dr K (27/10/08)

Adding various chemicals to water to get a profile near what you are looking for (eg BoT) might make the chemical analysis similar to the one given but it won't make the same water.
BoT water (from the profile) is chockers with salts.
I made enough "aditive" for about 200 litres of water (about 120 litres of beer) and gave some to a friend who made two batches, one unsalted the other insalted of an IPA (as close as possible bar the water).
The unsalted was far more balanced.
I made one to a different recipe, the result was good but too far over the top.
Certainly use Gypsum though, a tablespoon or so to the mash won't hurt.


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## kram (27/10/08)

gibbocore said:


> i'm a bit of a water nub, but i thought 7-8ph is hard? or am i way off?


Head over to How to Brew and check out the residual alkalinity section, everything you need to know to get started!


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## gibbocore (28/10/08)

kram said:


> Head over to How to Brew and check out the residual alkalinity section, everything you need to know to get started!




yeah i've got the book, that section hurts my head.


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## Stuster (28/10/08)

7-8 pH is slightly alkaline, but it doesn't really say anything about the softness. Hard water has high mineral content, soft water has less. For brewing, the most important part of this is calcium which helps the mash enzymes work quickly. So adding some calcium is helpful but not essential.


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## gibbocore (28/10/08)

sweet, cheers mate.


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## katzke (29/10/08)

From my quest to learn about brewing water some suggest that the common geographical water profiles are not correct. My brewing is on hold at the moment. I plan on using style guided water profiles when I start up again. Or adjusting the salts to fit the flavor profile of the beer.


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## buttersd70 (29/10/08)

katzke said:


> From my quest to learn about brewing water some suggest that the common geographical water profiles are not correct. My brewing is on hold at the moment. I plan on using style guided water profiles when I start up again. Or adjusting the salts to fit the flavor profile of the beer.



Lets face it, many of the (old) breweries use their own water supplies, from their own wells, independant to the town supplies. So knowing the exact water profiles they use is always going to be a guestimate, based on their geographical location anyway. West Yorkshire, for example, has a couple of communal water sources that are very similar (and nowadays are regulated to be consistant), but the well water in the area varies in quality and flavour from village to village. So it's always going to be ball park figures. I'd bet that Tetleys used very differant water to Smiths, even though the two breweries are only 8 miles apart.


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## BOG (29/10/08)

Thanks for the responses.

The reason I ask it that most forums suggest that making a Fullers ESB copy requires Butron-on-Trent water profile.
The idea, as described above, is that the water hardness changes the flavour slightly during the mash.

I produced a ESB for the NSW Comp this year and it scored ok but seemed me me to be way to bitter.
Other forum posts suggest that Water hardness will increase IBU and change the mouthfeel.

I coming to agree with Stuster comments that just because a place has really bad water where would you want to copy it. 

I gather from the comments provide that a teaspoon of Gypsum is about all a Mash needs and I should forget about trying to get water profiles happening.



BOG


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## Damian44 (29/10/08)

Hi. Im in Liverpool, so i guess the water im using is from Waragamba dam. From what i can gather the water ph is 7.4. Is it worth getting a PH stablizer solution?
TYVM


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## Stuster (29/10/08)

I'd say no. The 5.2 stuff that's made for brewing is more designed for hard water. It depends on what you are brewing, but a touch of gypsum (lighter coloured hoppy beers), calcium chloride (lighter coloured malty beers) or chalk (darker beers) is all you need to start with. The water is very soft and a small amount is all you need for the mash. When you're ready to learn more then go to How to Brew and read Palmer's section on water chemistry for the full story.


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## Damian44 (29/10/08)

Thanks again Stuster.


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## MCT (25/5/09)

I'm digging up an old thread here, but just wondering how your experiences were with modifying your water BOG. Did it make a big difference? Good/bad?

I'm looking at doing an ESB soon, and have come up with the following adjustments to "Burtonise" my water:







Just a quick question on sulfates. I read this on a site somewhere:
"If you're not convinced consider this. Sulfates can increase the bitterness of your beer at 150 ppm 350 ppm and get nasty at 400 ppm, but concentrations over 750 ppm can cause diarrhea. Your best bet is to get the water mineral content analysis for your local area, and then calculate the correct amounts of salt to add."

Now I'm a bit worried about the amount of sulfates I'm adding, but it's still 134ppm less than BoT. I don't want my beer to give me the shits  

Also, I realise that this modified water is going to effect the taste of the final product a fair amount, which will mean factoring it in to the recipe I use. Does anyone on here modify there recipe based on using a BoT water profile?
Any ideas on just how much more bitter this profile will make a beer (perhaps in IBU's)?

It's all new to me, and will need to experiment to find out for myself I guess, but I don't want to make crap beers in the process if it can be helped.

Cheers.


BOG said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> The reason I ask it that most forums suggest that making a Fullers ESB copy requires Butron-on-Trent water profile.
> The idea, as described above, is that the water hardness changes the flavour slightly during the mash.
> ...


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## MCT (25/5/09)

This is starting to do my head in.
After reading some more and looking at my additions, it seams the residual alkalinity is going to be way out for an ESB, and the PH of my mash is going to somwhere near 6.75, but it seems that the same can be said for anything brewed with Burton on Trent water.
Would it be worth adding some 5.2 to try and correct this? It seems crazy to add all those minerals and then some 5.2 to bring the pH back down.
I'm guessing all that calcium, sulphates and magnesium are needed, or people wouldn't try to replicate it, but I can't really understand how to balance the residual alkalinity with the numbers I have been given for BoT water analysis.

Another option I was considering was to just use 5.2 stabiliser without any water additions to the mash, then add the calcium and sulphates required to match BoT water in the boil.
Would this work? The mash pH will be right, and all the correct minerals will be in the final product. But still I worry about the overall bitterness of the beer, BoT has alot of sulphates in there.

My head is going to explode.


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## warra48 (25/5/09)

I've never bothered to Burtonise my water to the extent BeerSmith tends to indicate I should.

I'm not convinced I need to manipulate my water to the extent indicated to make a decent brew.
And who's to say you couldn't brew a perfectly good beer with a somewhat more mainstream profile?


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## KillerRx4 (25/5/09)

According to Palmer, its the Chloride to Sulfate ratio thats important. From that theory I take it if your chloride to sulfate ratio is similar to burton profile the resultant beer should carry the desired hop forward bitterness.


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## 3G (26/5/09)

Yep, look at the colour of the beer you intend to bre then you can calculate the residual alkalinity you need to achieve. From there you can build the water adding desired salts to get mash PH correct and sulfate to sulfate ratio where you want it.


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