# LagerJacket ferm cooling system



## Feldon (8/7/13)

Anybody kmow what cooling technology this ferm temp control system might use?

Its a new product out in the US later this year. Website doesn't say how it actually works (link: http://www.brewjacket.com/in-depth/ ).

Claims to be able to get ferm temp down to near freezing for cold crashing.

Just thinking about whether such a thing could be ghetto built.

Cheers.


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## slash22000 (8/7/13)

I was thinking this was a good idea until I saw they cost $399 each. **** me, you could buy a freezer and fit a half dozen fermentors (or more) in it for cheaper than that.


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## aaronwalls (9/7/13)

Hey Feldon, Aaron from BrewJacket here. The system uses a thermoelectric cooling head that pulls heat out of the fermenting beer through stainless steel heat transfer rods and dissipates it into the ambient environment. Slash22000 is right that you can buy a chest freezer for that price, but you get a massive amount of control and precision with the LagerJacket that is simply not possible when using a compressor, pump, and glycol based cooling system, not to mention the footprint doesn't exceed your current fermenter and the device can be stored on a closet shelf when not in use. Also, our system uses around 90w when cooling, so, especially if you find a used fridge or freezer, you could be looking at 4 to 8 times energy savings. Depending on how much you brew you could make up the energy cost difference pretty quickly.

To the last point, I suppose you could technically build one yourself, but because all of the components that run the device are custom built (electronics, thermal SS rods, cooling engine, jacket, etc) it will end up costing quite a bit more than our retail. The endeavor is more akin to building your own laptop: doable but quite difficult and cost prohibitive.

Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions, comments, etc! I would love to get some units into Australia.


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## sp0rk (9/7/13)

I'll gladly take a tester unit to try it out in the Australian environment...


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## Spiesy (9/7/13)

No good for Melbourne winters, unless you're doing lagers.


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## Feldon (9/7/13)

aaronwalls said:


> Hey Feldon, Aaron from BrewJacket here. The system uses a thermoelectric cooling head that pulls heat out of the fermenting beer through stainless steel heat transfer rods and dissipates it into the ambient environment. Slash22000 is right that you can buy a chest freezer for that price, but you get a massive amount of control and precision with the LagerJacket that is simply not possible when using a compressor, pump, and glycol based cooling system, not to mention the footprint doesn't exceed your current fermenter and the device can be stored on a closet shelf when not in use. Also, our system uses around 90w when cooling, so, especially if you find a used fridge or freezer, you could be looking at 4 to 8 times energy savings. Depending on how much you brew you could make up the energy cost difference pretty quickly.
> 
> To the last point, I suppose you could technically build one yourself, but because all of the components that run the device are custom built (electronics, thermal SS rods, cooling engine, jacket, etc) it will end up costing quite a bit more than our retail. The endeavor is more akin to building your own laptop: doable but quite difficult and cost prohibitive.
> 
> Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions, comments, etc! I would love to get some units into Australia.


Thanks for the reply Aaron. Agree that one advantage is the small footprint for brewers living in apartments etc. And the energy saving.

So these will run off 240 volts/50 Hz mains electricity supply? (that's the voltage used here in Australia)

Edit: sp.
PS. Aaron, if you haven't already, might be an idea if you PM the mods to say you are a (potential) retailer so they can tag your profile. Thanks again & Cheers.


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## aaronwalls (9/7/13)

The LagerJacket uses a universal input PSU, so it will work regardless of the voltage your wall outputs. Cheers!


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## booargy (11/7/13)

if you reverse the polarity does it heat?


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## aaronwalls (11/7/13)

The technology we are using is capable of doing so, but we are not including the heater capability in the first version of The LagerJacket. It is a feature we may include in the future, but with the prevalence of off the shelf heating solutions, we feel the best value add we can provide is through lagering.


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## roverfj1200 (11/7/13)

Thanks Aaronwalls. Looks like a handy unit to save space. And I to will be happy to do the Australian testing..*wink*


Cheers


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## mrTbeer (11/7/13)

At the right price it's a good idea.
I live in an apartment and can't make room for an extra fridge.

Average temps here 10-20 winter, 20-30 summer. 
Does thermoelectric allow for high humidity?
Can it be used for serving from a keg??


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## welly2 (11/7/13)

aaronwalls said:


> Hey Feldon, Aaron from BrewJacket here. The system uses a thermoelectric cooling head that pulls heat out of the fermenting beer through stainless steel heat transfer rods and dissipates it into the ambient environment. Slash22000 is right that you can buy a chest freezer for that price, but you get a massive amount of control and precision with the LagerJacket that is simply not possible when using a compressor, pump, and glycol based cooling system, not to mention the footprint doesn't exceed your current fermenter and the device can be stored on a closet shelf when not in use. Also, our system uses around 90w when cooling, so, especially if you find a used fridge or freezer, you could be looking at 4 to 8 times energy savings. Depending on how much you brew you could make up the energy cost difference pretty quickly.
> 
> To the last point, I suppose you could technically build one yourself, but because all of the components that run the device are custom built (electronics, thermal SS rods, cooling engine, jacket, etc) it will end up costing quite a bit more than our retail. The endeavor is more akin to building your own laptop: doable but quite difficult and cost prohibitive.
> 
> Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions, comments, etc! I would love to get some units into Australia.


Sounds brilliant. But please, please, please allow it to use Celsius as well as Fahrenheit! Please!


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## aaronwalls (11/7/13)

The first round of these devices will only be available to the U.S., but when we begin shipping outside, most likely in mid 2014, we will have the units in celsius so no worries there.

Regarding humidity, it does hamper the performance of our heat dissipation system slightly, but to how much, I cannot say for sure and will be a good set of tests to run and publish the results of. The system is currently tuned to operate indoors (50% humidity), but we shouldn't see much more than two or three degrees shaved off the lower end by high humidity.


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## Feldon (13/7/13)

Hey Aaron,

How would one of these go at controlling the temp of a 50 litre ale fermentation (~ 18 degrees C)?


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## aaronwalls (13/7/13)

That would be hard to say exactly. At those volumes, the device will struggle. It is designed to have certain surface area contact per gallon of liquid and by increasing that ratio, our ability to pull heat out will diminish. You should be able to achieve ale temps but without the right jacket insulation and adapter, it would be hard to get it to fit and function correctly. We may release a larger version in the future, but for now we are focusing on our 5 gallon version.

Speaking of, we just launched our kickstarter. It's shipping to the U.S. only right now, but that will change early next year.


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## Beerisyummy (15/7/13)

http://www.marinedepot.com/chillers_coolworks_iceprobe-ap.html

It's great to see a peltier unit for individual fermenters hitting the market.
Great for a reduced footprint, but also suffering in efficiency if not insulated well enough.

How many watts is the peltier chip? 90 watts at around 20% the efficiency of a compressor based system?
I'm not at all against the idea, but I'd like to see some real life figures.


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## QldKev (15/7/13)

aaronwalls said:


> The first round of these devices will only be available to the U.S., but when we begin shipping outside, most likely in mid 2014, we will have the units in celsius so no worries there.
> 
> Regarding humidity, it does hamper the performance of our heat dissipation system slightly, but to how much, I cannot say for sure and will be a good set of tests to run and publish the results of. The system is currently tuned to operate indoors (50% humidity), but we shouldn't see much more than two or three degrees shaved off the lower end by high humidity.


I'd be interested in seeing how it goes in the humidity. Winter where I am in Australia is 20+c with 50+% humidity, and summer can see mid 30c with 90+%, and I'm not even in the hot part.


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## aaronwalls (19/7/13)

I'm bringing home a test unit this weekend so I'll open the windows and let the steamy air in. It was around 90% humidity today, so I'll report back.


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## Beerisyummy (19/7/13)

aaronwalls said:


> I'm bringing home a test unit this weekend so I'll open the windows and let the steamy air in. It was around 90% humidity today, so I'll report back.


Really interested to see some real world results recorded which show the units cooling ability.

I was using an old 85w peltier powered water chiller to cool a water bath fridge when I first started controlling FV temps. The FV sat in the water ,in an insulated tub, and it took approximately 1 day to get it down to 2c from 22c ambient in 60-70% humidity. I probably still have my notes floating around somewhere.

Based on my experiments I'd say the unit should work pretty well with the metal probes transferring the cooling directly to the wort. Looks like a pretty good setup.


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## gava (19/7/13)

I like the idea but if its being used for the lager process I'd like to see how it's sealed on the lid... To me it just looks like two holes, Not sure about anyone else but if I had a beer conditioning for a few weeks I'd want to know its not going to get some nasty bug fly in through the holes, since fermentation is complete and there wont be as much c02 covering the beer (Correct me if I'm wrong people)

I've had a look at doing the same thing myself but ended up not going down the peltier road due to inefficiencies. I assume that's why there's no heating as yet? i did read the energy thing on your page but I've also heard plenty to counter it. (just asking) Also I'm not 100% sure your numbers cover most brewers, because I brew double batches and or have two beers fermenting in one fridge at once so the cost per lt of beer would be alot different and I believe alot of people do this. Also how would I go using this in my 60lt fermenter? I dont think it'll reach down to my beer and the cooling wont be as good..

I also heard of bad kill rates of the peltiers chips (Ofcourse I was looking at dodgy Chinese ones) what is the kill rate? and how does the unit handle this? beep? screaming? shutdowns and goes to the pub and picks you up a sixer to make the news easier handle?

Not trying to rain on your product.. if the price was right I'd surly recommend to people just thought I'd point out some things I'm sure other brewers would ask themselves when looking at this product..

keep it up, tech toys and beer are two great things!

-Gav


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## Feldon (19/7/13)

Aaron addressed this question in a previous post.



gava said:


> Also how would I go using this in my 60lt fermenter?



Edit: Changed "OP" to "Aaron" (forgot I was the OP!)


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## Beerisyummy (19/7/13)

Feldon said:


> Aaron addressed this question in a previous post.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Changed "OP" to "Aaron" (forgot I was the OP!)


That was a 50l fermenter...... 

I think the unit will be pushing it above 30c ambient for anything larger than 30L. Pure speculation, of course.
My 85w chip was chilling around 25L of water and about 25L of wort without too much trouble. That's including the 8w pump adding heat back into the mix.
(Incl. 22c ambient, 2c bottom threshold and a shirtload of insulation).
I'd imagine 90w with less volume ,and direct contact, will do better than my ghetto peltier chiller.

Anyway, there should be plenty of graphs online showing the cooling capacity of similar units made for aquarium use.


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## aaronwalls (20/7/13)

To answer Gav's question, there are two carboy style bungs on the HX rods that seal up the lid and the weight of the device itself keeps that contact solid throughout the brew. The question about kill rates is also very important. The reason most peltiers break is due to the expansion and contraction of the structural material holding the thermocouple arrays in place within the peltier module. In fact, we've had many peltiers break on us when we pushed them too hard, or had them surf the set temp without a substantial hysteresis band. Using a standard PID will break the chips within about 3 weeks, or so we've found. The solution is duty cycle phasing, so we control exactly how much the delta between the top side and bottom side of the chip is at any given point in the cycle, minimizing the structural strain. This is all handled by the firmware in our temperature controller. What we have is smooth expansion periods and smooth contraction periods vastly elongating the life of the chips.


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## Truman42 (11/7/19)

Has anyone brought and tried one of these? I see G&G have them for $490


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## aamcle (24/7/19)

If you just want small and cheap a little insulation and the top section of an Aldi 12v cool box will do the job.

Aamcle


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