# Gina looking for a long wall and a load of blindfolds.



## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/gina-rinehart-hits-out-at-welfare-recipients-and-the-left-for-dragging-australia-into-debt/story-fni0cx12-1226847448435


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## NewtownClown (8/3/14)

“I can already hear the left boiling with rage..."
Left? What Left? The real Left exited the building years ago...

I think the above is a misquote, it should read, “I can already taste the left boiled with sage..."


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

Well she could start by employing australian workers instead of importing overseas workers.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

She's got to find those who will work first.


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## Airgead (8/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> She's got to find those who will work *for $2 a day* first.


FIFY


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## manticle (8/3/14)

She came from a long line of strugglers Gina. She knows just what it's like to work your way up from the bottom of the heap.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Even though she is wealthy and born with the proverbial spoon she has got a point.


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## manticle (8/3/14)

That people getting paid $200 every two weeks are dragging the country into debt?


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## manticle (8/3/14)

Welfare recipients are such an easy target. Why not pick on babies, stray dogs or cripples instead?


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

When there are enough of them yes.You know they get paid more than that and it is true, parents who are bucking the system leave a legacy for their offspring's.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

She reminds me of Jabba the Hut...


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Was he in Bob Hawkes government? Bit before my time.


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## lukiferj (8/3/14)

Why can't everyone be rich. Stupid poor people with their non inheritance bringing me down. I just want to be rich and not have to pay taxes. Im Australian. Let me.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

She is just pissed because she has dropped from 36 to 46th on the list of the worlds richest people.

Give the poor woman a break. Must have been hard news to take.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

We can't all be wealthy, and we all have to pay taxes, unless you are affiliated to Apple.


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## lukiferj (8/3/14)

Someone fetch me a chandie so I can deal. I won't ask again.


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## manticle (8/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> When there are enough of them yes.You know they get paid more than that and it is true, parents who are bucking the system leave a legacy for their offspring's.


What about the other 98.7789% of welfare recipients? Welfare includes - unemployment, austudy, youth allowance, disability, aged pensioners, military pensions and god knows what else. You can't lump them all in one bin and while some get more than that, some don't.

I know someone who receives a disability pension for example who also works part time and lives with a working partner (on an average income). They are lucky to receive $100 a fortnight.

It's a big, diverse 'they' we're all happy to demonise. Some earn more than 200, some less but no-one is ever going to be saving a deposit for a home on unemployment benefits unless they know they're really good at counting cards.

Some people go to work and do three fifths of **** all. Most people probably go to work and do their jobs. Most people on welfare aren't 'bucking the system'. Maybe some are but why blame all of them for that? Easy, soft target maybe?


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Sorry I am not a socialist manticle but I do agree with her way of thinking,regarding dole bludgers the Mo does get passed down the line, children of dole bludgers are type cast and will learn to fill out unemployment forms before getting any employment.


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## Maheel (8/3/14)

shes not saying that people don't deserve some support

she is saying the time of "entitlement" is done and over it's costing a fortune that will get bigger and bigger and bankrupt Australia
if we (the GOV) keep handing out free easy money then why would some bother to work or stop asking for handouts....

the group shouldering the tax burden is getting smaller here in OZ as boomers retire and they are going to cost us young ones plenty in things like health care....
some of their lazy children who often enjoy the spoils of their boomer parents sure are going to get a rude shock if mum and dad spend it all .....

i'm going to go get a beer


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## manticle (8/3/14)

Do any of you actually know any welfare recipients personally?

I'm not a socialist either by the way WEAL.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Manticle I do know recipients personally, and those I know are ripping off the system,I also know you don't like racism, but everyone is a racist, and it is how you handle it that counts, the people I know are not born and bred Aussies, but people who come here and, as far as they are concerned are to soft.


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## Steve (8/3/14)

I applied for the dole last month (due to being made redundant in November) but because of the amount my wife earnt doing her part time job (which isn't enough to pay the mortgage) I wasn't deemed eligible to receive the $240 a fortnight benefit. I bet that fat fucker didn't struggle putting food on her table this evening.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

manticle said:


> Do any of you actually know any welfare recipients personally?
> .


I do. And I can tell you that they would rather not be on welfare. You get enough to survive and thats it. Even then its a battle.

And I dont know where all this talk of getting an inheritance comes from that we are supposed to be entittled to. Although its common knowledge she is stopping her kids from getting an inheritance, when she herself was the beneficiary of a somewhat large inheritance. One wonders if she is being antagonistic simply for the sake of it, especially after her $2hr rate statement


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## manticle (8/3/14)

I meant the people cursing them all as dole bludgers Stu.

People on unemployment benefits make up a portion of welfare recipients as I tried to point out earlier. Of those , maybe there are a small portion of dole bludgers yet dole bludger and welfare recipient seem synonymous in so many people's minds. people forget diability, old age pension, whatever.

Sorry wide-eyed, I'm not quite sure what you mean or how the racism topic is relevant. You know some welfare recipients who rip off the system? I know some who don't. The small amount of my life I've relied on Austudy and the miniscule amount of time I received unemployment benefits (maybe 8 weeks all up), I didn't rip off the system either. What benefits do the people you know receive, how do they abuse it and how does that mean everyone receiving welfare is exactly the same? Like Stu said - most people receiving it would rather work for a lot more. Unfortunately not all of them can. I know a bloke who can move his fingers slightly and his neck a bit due to extreme cerebral palsy. Any suggestions on what that dole bludger should be doing for a living?


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## zappa (8/3/14)

manticle said:


> Do any of you actually know any welfare recipients personally?
> 
> I'm not a socialist either by the way WEAL.


I have known quite a few, and I can tell you my view is quite tarnished.

While there are plenty who are deserving and genuinely need a hand up, it's the ones that work the system that I remember most. The whole families that run cash businesses, then each collect a welfare payment every fortnight. The ones that live with friends, don't pay rent, but claim rental assistance. The ones that repeatedly turn up to their newly found job, stay for 15 minutes then quit because it "wasn't right for them", yet by turning up satisfy the requirements to keep receiving welfare. The ones that push for a referal to a psychologist so they can get a ticket that states they're not mentally fit for work and are then exempt from actively seeking for work or submitting forms for the next 6 to 12 months (and then brag about it). The ones that brag about only having to stay on the dole for another 6 months before centrelink finish paying for their heavy vehicle training. The ones that brag about getting $100 towards clothes eveytime they're "forced" to attend an interview.

It's these people that breed a culture around welfare and should be stopped. I'm not sure what percentage they make up, but I'm sure the cost of resourcing to investigate, monitor and eventually prosecute these people probably outweighs the cost of letting them be. The problem with that approach though is that it's a mentality that breeds (and often breeds fast).

Again, my view is tarnished based on what I've seen throughout my adult life. It still angers me though.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Steve said:


> I applied for the dole last month (due to being made redundant in November) but because of the amount my wife earnt doing her part time job (which isn't enough to pay the mortgage) I wasn't deemed eligible to receive the $240 a fortnight benefit. I bet that fat fucker didn't struggle putting food on her table this evening.
> Steve, yes I did read your post about being made redundant, but the thing is don't give up, take anything you can get, there is a way out of any predicament you may find yourself, keep a positive thought and you will get through any hard times that you will come across.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

The cheats and bludgers are more the exception than the rule. They are no different to a business that decides to set up off shore because they dont want to pay tax, or bring in overseas workers and exploit them. 

Now which ones are the easier target and which ones are actually getting the better deal by manipulating the system for finacial gain.....


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## Rambo (8/3/14)

Either way you feel on the argument, the real problem is that Gina Rinehart's opinion on the matter is worthy of news and is listened to by others (including those in power). Just because she inherited a shite load of money.

Those with money have the power to influence decisions which will help make them more money and therefore more power.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Manticle the person I know for an instance is Lebanese, he has two milk bars and 2 restaurants and is collecting welfare, I also know of two brothers who are Bulgarian, they were detained as being illegal immigrants but released, in four years they have bought 4 houses and paid cash, but never worked, they are growing dope in S.A.
I had a Chinese who was working for me, I sponsored him but there was a glitch regarding his final examination a bribe was paid to the immigration officer and was given a permanent residency visa.
He was also in receipt of bogus credit cards and offered to put them through my NAB machine,I declined the offer and reported it to my NAB manager, **** off he said, we are covered for fraud by what we are paying for using a C.C


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## shaunous (8/3/14)

What I wanna know is how the Fuk these dole bludgers have enough money to drink all day every day. Stu and Brewmatt being Grafton lads will know, if u drive past the 2 pubs in Grafton on Pound Street anytime after 1030am, both pubs are packed with the same people everyday and I'm not talking a few people, I'm talking 30+ at each pub every day! how the Fuk do they afford it. I know I couldn't on my single wage, how do I get on said dole???

Also having 2 good mates owning a real estate agency here in town, they quite often get into trouble taking the piss outa the 'bludgers' rorting the system, 60%+ of there rental role is disability pensions with nothing physically wrong with them, or single parent pensions who blatantly come into their office with there partner. 

Rant Over...


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## Rambo (8/3/14)

There are a few people on the dole that work the system to get money they shouldn't, this pisses me off.

There are few millionaires who work the system so that they don't have to pay tax, this also pisses me off. A lot more.


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## Burt de Ernie (8/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Well she could start by employing australian workers instead of importing overseas workers.


LOL....you used Australian and workers in the same sentence!


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

One of those pubs lets the drinkers book up, but they never pay...... Have heard from a reliable source that he cant even afford to stock his fridges with take away beer. And the blokes who drink there are also in the ...shall we say... fresh herb market....


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## shaunous (8/3/14)

Yes but the millionaires are mostly relying on their accountants and tax agents, so they can only get any with so much. It's not the routing of the system they do, it's the ability to have money to but more here and their to claim more here and their and afford accountants who are really good at their job, which u and me will not get, as the average accountant is as good as anyone with Google and Microsoft excel.


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## Bribie G (8/3/14)

I'm a welfare recipient, age pensioner, and like 40% of baby boomers I have no assets. I have owned two houses and wives got both, along with a fair whack of my super, predominantly because I decided to be a good guy. More fool me.

I have paid taxes all my life, have only had around a year on the dole as such and feel I now should receive the promises given to me by the government, that I would be looked after.

shaunous, I'd bet that the "bludgers" you refer to probably appear to be well off because their kids are fed on dollar bread and two minute noodles, they receive stolen goods and deal in Ganja on the side. These are the visible minority of welfare recipients who stand out like a sore thumb, and your post says it all ... these are the ones you see when you drive past so they are in your face.

My partner is part aboriginal and I can assure you that for every drunk Nigga you see in a park or on the so called news, there are many more in jobs and living a decent life. I attended an aboriginal wedding with 300 guests a couple of years ago, all were employed, arrived in late model cars and only five, yes five, guests were drinking alcohol. And that was xxxx gold.

Unfortunately the media only present those drunk Niggas and those bludgers, who do exist, so it's hard for anyone to get a true handle on the real situation. Suits Abbott, Gina, Murdoch and Pell just fine.


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## shaunous (8/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> One of those pubs lets the drinkers book up, but they never pay...... Have heard from a reliable source that he cant even afford to stock his fridges with take away beer. And the blokes who drink there are also in the ...shall we say... fresh herb market....


Yeh I figured and recognising a few to be fruitless tomatoe producers, but the whole crew? There is a fair few of them their, none of them work, and some are not just drinking beers, their into rum cans and cans of Jimmy B. WTF?

Hs account isn't closed by Tooheys yet, so he cannot be doing so bad. That's when u know they are struggling, they start buying their kegs through other local pubs for cash.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

Jeezuz Bribe....you are the first person in propably 20yrs that I have heatd use N word.....


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

shaunous said:


> Yeh I figured and recognising a few to be fruitless tomatoe producers, but the whole crew? There is a fair few of them their, none of them work, and some are not just drinking beers, their into rum cans and cans of Jimmy B. WTF?
> 
> Hs account isn't closed by Tooheys yet, so he cannot be doing so bad. That's when u know they are struggling, they start buying their kegs through other local pubs for cash.


Well he would not be the first pub in town to be on a cash only acc. Few in south have been


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## shaunous (8/3/14)

You only need to visit our great lil town briefly to visually see the 'bludgers'. I wasn't referring to Aboriginals Bribie, just incase that's what u were referring to....


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## TimT (8/3/14)

There's an interesting and helpful conversation we could all have about welfare, but colour me skeptical when that conversation is started by the richest person in Australia! She may be good at making money but Rinehart is just not clever about her media appearances.


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## Bribie G (8/3/14)

Now I'm on a roll 

I used aborigines as an example of the few in-the-face people that tarnish the majority you don't see because they are, like yourself, living a good life unseen.

As a pom (arrived here in my late 20s) I am also entitled to a part UK pension as well. Not for sentimental reasons but because I FECKN PAID FOR IT

(SHOUTS)

The UK welfare system is based on the National Insurance Contributions Scheme set up after the Second World War, and is basically a State run super type scheme. Every week, a contribution is taken out of your pay and accrues in your Nat Insurance account, and if you are unemployed for a while and when you retire, this contribution .. did you see the word Insurance above? pays out.

Perhaps a big mistake made by Australia (whingeing pom cap on) is that this was not adopted in Australia at that time because there was huge economic growth and low unemployment, mostly due to immigration, and ever onward and upward etc... no need ever to have a contributory system like the UK.

And it's still contributory in the UK, I can actually now pay for all my missing National Insurance contributions that I didn't pay as I moved to Aus, and can get a half pension. Applying right now, and no not double dipping as the payment will reduce my Aussie centrelink payments which is just fine by me.

In the UK (despite being in recession but that's another story entirely so don't go there) they refer to BENEFIT payments (shouts) because that is what they are, benefits that are paid from your own personal National Insurance scheme contributions - just as benefits from Funeral Direct or Insuranceline or whatever over here. "Please indicate here name of beneficiary should you pass away".

Sad really because the precarious situation of Australian Pensioners and unemployed leaves them open to accusations of bludging, and an "entitlement" mentality. Not so in other countries.

So in the UK if someone (or more correct, some thing) like Geeena were to pipe up about the entitlement mentality she could get well fecked.


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## shaunous (8/3/14)

She not real good lookin in them either.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Not eye candy I must admit but what she says and what she does makes me want to go down on her.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

She probably lays there on here motifed chaise lounge, and rings a small bell..." I am peckish...fetch me one of them $2 workers...that should tide me over till dinner "


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

What you reckon she eats them!


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## goomboogo (8/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What you reckon she eats them!


By the dozen.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Well we won't need the blindfolds or the wall then.


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## goomboogo (8/3/14)

The unemployment rate drops as she eats; I mean as we speak.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Wouldn't it be lovely, but we can't have a good old democracy without we put down a few people, why should my taxes be supporting those who would not be missed and don't want to work, putting them to the sword would get my vote.


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## manticle (8/3/14)

How much of ypur actual tax goes to the dole?

If I could actually select where my tax went, there'd be a lot of other shit I'd rather not pay than welfare.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/3/14)

Even crippled babies who look after stray dogs have family.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

Is that my problem,babies looking after stray dogs, my tax should be going to uphold our pensioners they have done their hard yakka, not supporting dole bludgers.
Al right we have got sick people who do need a helping hand but there are more people than you realise manticle that are putting their hand out for what isn't theirs.


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## Mardoo (8/3/14)

One wall. One blindfold.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/3/14)

I know that we are not all alike otherwise we would be brewing one beer, praying to one god, and having a ******* boring life.
We all come into this world the same way but we are all different, I can't change anyone else's point of view but I would enjoy the challenge to do so, I am glad we don't think alike, I enjoy confrontations, and I would top myself if we did all think alike


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## spudfarmerboy (9/3/14)

Wide eyed and legless, if you don't like it, you can **** off to Pomgolia anytime you like and stay there.
You won't be missed.


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## hoppy2B (9/3/14)

Gina would have to be the greediest evil witch of them all in my opinion. She's like the biggest bludger in the universe! No, tell me what you do with your time Gina apart from trying to avoid paying tax like a greedy self centred swine!

How many problems have greedy rich people caused in this world? How many times have greedy rich people used their wealth to oppress others? 

I think when you die you are going straight to hell Gina. Look forward to your next life living in a slum somewhere.


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## shaunous (9/3/14)

spudfarmerboy said:


> Wide eyed and legless, if you don't like it, you can **** off to Pomgolia anytime you like and stay there.
> You won't be missed.



Who can spot the dole bludger.

Me! Me! Me!


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## Steve (9/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not eye candy I must admit but what she says and what she does makes me want to go down on her.


LOLOLOL.....thanks for making me laugh. That is too funny.


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## goomboogo (9/3/14)

hoppy2B said:


> Gina would have to be the greediest evil witch of them all in my opinion. She's like the biggest bludger in the universe! No, tell me what you do with your time Gina apart from trying to avoid paying tax like a greedy self centred swine!
> 
> How many problems have greedy rich people caused in this world? How many times have greedy rich people used their wealth to oppress others?
> 
> I think when you die you are going straight to hell Gina. Look forward to your next life living in a slum somewhere.


Get off the fence.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)




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## shaunous (9/3/14)

Pure Gold that pic


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## manticle (9/3/14)

zappa said:


> I have known quite a few, and I can tell you my view is quite tarnished.
> 
> While there are plenty who are deserving and genuinely need a hand up, it's the ones that work the system that I remember most. The whole families that run cash businesses, then each collect a welfare payment every fortnight. The ones that live with friends, don't pay rent, but claim rental assistance. The ones that repeatedly turn up to their newly found job, stay for 15 minutes then quit because it "wasn't right for them", yet by turning up satisfy the requirements to keep receiving welfare. The ones that push for a referal to a psychologist so they can get a ticket that states they're not mentally fit for work and are then exempt from actively seeking for work or submitting forms for the next 6 to 12 months (and then brag about it). The ones that brag about only having to stay on the dole for another 6 months before centrelink finish paying for their heavy vehicle training. The ones that brag about getting $100 towards clothes eveytime they're "forced" to attend an interview.
> 
> ...


I agree that that attitude, when it occurs is reprehensible. Unfortunately ALL welfare recipients get tarnished with the same brush because of that behaviour and everyone's ignorant, stereotypical view is cemented when some reactionary politician or mining magnate decides to unleash on vulnerable people again to garner populist support.

I was under the impression that there are rules stopping people from turning up to a new job and quitting - I believe payments get suspended to prevent that very thing. Not sure how easy getting a referral for a psychologist is either. There are those who rort the system and they piss me off too as all they do is make it difficult for those who genuinely need assistance to actually get it without being treated like lazy, cheating scum.

It's the stereotype that pisses me off - both the people who live it and the people who buy into the idea that all the apples are rotten because of it.

I go back to my original point though - of all the different types of welfare (so not just dole/unemployment) how could the portion of those who are cheating be singlehandedly responsible for National debt? It's a very, very big call.

And wide -eyed - if you could really put your face between those legs, then I consider that punishment enough.


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## StalkingWilbur (9/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Manticle I do know recipients personally, and those I know are ripping off the system,I also know you don't like racism, but everyone is a racist, and it is how you handle it that counts, the people I know are not born and bred Aussies, but people who come here and, as far as they are concerned are to soft.


No. Everyone is not racist. Just because you are doesn't mean everyone is and just because you freely express racist views from behind a keyboard and when you're around other racists but keep your mouth shut around those that will confront you for it doesn't mean you're "handling it well". It actually makes it worse.


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## Black Devil Dog (9/3/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> No. Everyone is not racist. Just because you are doesn't mean everyone is and just because you freely express racist views from behind a keyboard and when you're around other racists but keep your mouth shut around those that will confront you for it doesn't mean you're "handling it well". It actually makes it worse.


No need to get abusive mate. Just because someone has an opinion that is different to your own is no excuse for posting hostile comments like that.


There are people who are unemployed that are in families that have been unemployed for generations. There are people who will apply for jobs just so that they can show they are actively seeking work. There are people who can't find work even though they want to work. There are people who can't work due to ill health. Others can't find work because they have low skills or poor education.

There's no one single reason why people are unemployed. Some want to be, others don't want to be.

Poor Gina can't even find it in her heart to be amiable to her own children. What hope is there that other less fortunate people are going to be shown any sympathy.


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## StalkingWilbur (9/3/14)

Being racist isn't "having an opinion". It's being racist, which is unacceptable. I don't appreciate comments insinuating that everyone's racist because I am not.


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## manticle (9/3/14)

I've edited your post wilbur - it still has the gist of what you were saying but I've taken out some of the more abusive phrases. While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, we need to try and keep the majority of the discussion civil. PM me if you think I need to reconsider.

Have also edited BDD's quote to reflect the above.


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## StalkingWilbur (9/3/14)

That's fair enough. I do get angry quickly about subjects like this. And even if we don't need to keep the discussion civil, my comments would've only exacerbated the negativity. 

Thanks.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

Being unemployed and looking for work is one of the most exciting things you can do in your life. Everyone shoould go thru just to see what its like.

You can be highly qualified but remain out of work for long periods. And these days most employers go thru recruiting agencies who are nothing but oxygen theives, and then there are labour hire companies who rip off both the employer & employee. There are a lot of employers who use labour hire companies to avoid things like holiday & LSL, and they can convieniantly shut up shop and stiff the workers.

The whole system is broken, and not helped by the fact that the Libs would dearly love to see an American style of work force. 

The government really does SFA to help the unemployed apart from some token gestures. They go on to ( unfairly ) blame unions without looking at the businesses. Gina wants to use cheap african labour because "they will work for $2hr" and if you came from Africa $2 is a shitload of money. Does this help the unemployment situation here....no....all it does is alienate and cause derision. Even on the std minimum wage it is hard to get by.


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## jyo (9/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not eye candy I must admit but what she says and what she does makes me want to go down on her.


Remember your P.P.E, mate. Full safety harness and B.A. will be required.


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## manticle (9/3/14)

Don't forget to complete a swms.


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## tim0850 (9/3/14)

there you go!!!


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## jyo (9/3/14)

manticle said:


> Don't forget to complete a swms.


Would this sort of job also require KPI?


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

You would need a uni degree in " being a knob jockey"....


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

jyo said:


> Would this sort of job also require KPI?


The key to performance would closing your eyes and thinking of Australia....as opposed to England that queen Vic would have you do


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## manticle (9/3/14)

Unsure about KPI but definitely an LWK


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## shaunous (9/3/14)

Im not a racist, I hate everyone equally 

Growing up in lil' old Grafton made it hard not to be racist, I don't think its as bad as it used to be here, but getting gang bashed by a crowd of Aboriginals made it hard not to be. This pretty much happened most recess and lunches and most weekends, never being beaten up bad myself by them, but I can understand someones anger who had been.

And before you say, 'Yeh but white people gang bash too', well they didn't back then and here.

Of coarse we are all older now, so we mature and our opinions change, and now having many aboriginal friends we can laugh about it, no point holding a grudge.


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## hoppy2B (9/3/14)

As Stu pointed out, Gina wants to hire cheap African workers and at the same time whine about her taxes going to dole bludgers. If you want to pay less taxes then I suggest hiring some of the Australians who are on the dole Gina. The reality is that there aren't enough jobs to go around for all Australians.

I get the impression that Gina would prefer to have cheap foreign workers in her employ and have Australians starving and homeless if she could, just so as to have more money herself. Like she doesn't have enough. I'm truly disgusted! :unsure:


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## Maheel (9/3/14)

plenty of Africans working in Aussie mines getting paid a LOT more than $2 an hour.....

prob more like $150 - 200 an hour


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## shaunous (9/3/14)

What about the Australian Expats earing fukloads oversea's, and there is a fair few of them.

And what are the young people doing for jobs now, the Indians are doing all the small shops and petrol station jobs that a kid would have done back in the day, that's now changed to kids going to UNI for years and my tax going to their continual HECS fee's that they rarely pay off.

who else can we pick on???


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

hoppy2B said:


> I get the impression that Gina would prefer to have cheap foreign workers in her employ , thru a labour hire company under an American style contract bought in by the LNP,and have Australians starving and homeless if she could, just so as to have more money herself. Like she doesn't have enough. I'm truly disgusted! :unsure:


Fixed.
You missed a few key points.


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## manticle (9/3/14)

shaunous said:


> who else can we pick on???


Onion farmers?


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## shaunous (9/3/14)

Maheel said:


> plenty of Africans working in Aussie mines getting paid a LOT more than $2 an hour.....
> 
> prob more like $150 - 200 an hour


I got a Zimbabwean guy a job here, well over in PNG first, than here, now the bastard earns +200k a year supervising the repairs and maintenance of fixed plant (crushers, etc) in WA. Although he was a damn good hard worker, and smart, and talk funny


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

Maheel said:


> plenty of Africans working in Aussie mines getting paid a LOT more than $2 an hour.....
> 
> prob more like $150 - 200 an hour


Um...I doubt that....there are not very many at all on that kind of money....and certainly not your average pick n shovell blokes


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## shaunous (9/3/14)

How the hell would Africans get a job in the mines anyway, there is way to many Kiwi's in line in-front of them at the HR office.


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## StalkingWilbur (9/3/14)

Yeah... As someone who works on a mine site, none of the "workers" are on that kind of money except for air leggers and they're a dying breed who only do 6 hour shifts anyway. I can't speak for project/mining managers and people above them though. But they're a rare few and certainly not people on a 456 visa.


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## Liam_snorkel (9/3/14)

Remember that time she wrote a poem?


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## manticle (9/3/14)

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm fat and rich
so **** you
you miserable, lazy povo *****


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## jyo (9/3/14)

I found a heap of coal
It was in my hole,
in the ground
Is where it is found.
Welfare people should die.


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## hoppy2B (9/3/14)

There was a fat ugly 'girl' named Gina,
Who hid a tiny weaner.
She said, 'I'm a hermaphrodite'
But hey its alright,
I'm rich and you're all stupid poor little people with no power hihi.


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## Liam_snorkel (9/3/14)

Let's put it this way, if she donated or lost 95% of her wealth, she would still have $1.1 billion to play with. 

That isn't just rich, that is unimaginably wealthy. Think of the things that could be achieved if 95% of her $22,000,000,000 were invested in something worthwhile. Medical research. ******* space exploration. But instead she will hoard it and condescend the people who need to work day to day just to eat.


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## manticle (9/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Think of the things that could be achieved if she donated $1 to charity for every dim sim she ate


Amen


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## Liam_snorkel (9/3/14)

Haha yeah sorry, hit 'post' mid sentence.

Anyway, here's her poetry: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9085842/Gina-Rinehart-pens-universes-worst-poem.html


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Think of the things that could be achieved if 95% of her $22,000,000,000 were invested in something worthwhile. Medical research


That would fund Medicare for 10yrs....just the interest alone would build a nice new hospital every year.

When you look at her and then someone like Kerry Packer there is no comparison. He used to donate HUGE amounts and was also fair. When I lived in the Upper Hunter Valley, where his Polo padock "Ellerston" is, he would only use locals to do as much work as possible, He used to buy his vehicles from the local dealers. The local taxi at Scone used to deliver the sunday papers every week. A round trip of nearly 200km . He would even offer his helicopter to take those hurt on the sports fields directly to sydney. He never spruked but allways looked after those who were prepared to have a go.

When Gina starts doing that instead of slagging off she might find a bit more respect.


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## shaunous (9/3/14)

I obviously don't know Kerry Packer, but everything I've read and watched about him (Had a bit of a man crush for a while) he sounds like a champ. Yeh he used to abuse people and go off his head, but who doesn't, and most simpletons need abusing to work anyway, a good ol' 'Hey fuk knuckle, did u just pour water into a fuel tank, were your parents first cousins?', makes them remember for next time.

Speaking from experience


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/3/14)

Kerry was a good bloke, yes he had a temper and the stories I have heard were interesting. One of them was when he bogged a brand new 80 series LC ...got out...pulled out his 9mm and emptied it into it...he then turned to one of the farm hands and said " Ring Scone toyota and order another 5....******* ***** of things keep getting bogged"..I knew the bloke who was there...he was shit scared as Kerry was waving a 9mm around and very pissed off and swearing like a brickies labourer....needles to say my mate ordered 5 brand new cruisers the next day...


----------



## Liam_snorkel (10/3/14)

relevant, & good for a laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcKMd49wDRk


----------



## wobbly (11/3/14)

Sums up my view very well about half those on the doll



Wobbly


----------



## Liam_snorkel (11/3/14)

Half?

there are just as many ferals with money (we call them CUBs - Cashed Up Bogans) who rort the tax system and contribute nothing positive to society either. Just spoilt shitty kids and gaudy houses, and by extension, 'reality' TV (because surely nobody else watches it).


----------



## Airgead (11/3/14)

Yeah... really? Half? BS.

The real figures are put there (not that anyone cares.. its much easier to demonise anyone on welfare as a bludger). Here is a report from the Australian Institute of Criminology - http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/421-440/tandi421.html



> Overall, in the three years, 0.04 percent of customers were convicted of fraud.


That's a long way from half.

The report also says - 


> Anecdotes about people feigning illness or disability, living on welfare while avoiding work, or collecting benefits while working, became a standard part of social gossip


Yep.. Anecdotes (the plural of anecdote is anecdotes not data) and gossip.

If Gina wants to find people who have a sense of entitlement to government handouts she should have a good long look in the mirror. The whole mining industry (and particularly the individuals who own most of it) grabs government cash with both hands while simultaneously bleating on about bludgers and their sense of entitlement. Sickening.


----------



## stm (11/3/14)

Bribie G said:


> The UK welfare system is based on the National Insurance Contributions Scheme set up after the Second World War, and is basically a State run super type scheme. Every week, a contribution is taken out of your pay and accrues in your Nat Insurance account, and if you are unemployed for a while and when you retire, this contribution .. did you see the word Insurance above? pays out.
> 
> Perhaps a big mistake made by Australia (whingeing pom cap on) is that this was not adopted in Australia at that time because there was huge economic growth and low unemployment, mostly due to immigration, and ever onward and upward etc... no need ever to have a contributory system like the UK.


In fact, that is how the OAP started here - with contributions going into a separate fund (ie, not consolidated revenue). But the pollies' greed got too great and they just rolled it all into one (back in the 1950s I think) so they could access that money for general handouts. 

So I don't think the OAP is welfare, but certainly the dole, disability support pension, single mothers pension etc are, and are massively rorted in Australia. Health care cards are also handed out like confetti, if you know how to work the system. If you are on welfare and cannot afford cars, ciggies, beer/Jim Beam, pokies etc, then you are simply not working the system properly.


----------



## pat_00 (11/3/14)

Oh well, back to the pile!


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/3/14)

Does Gina remember where she inherited her wealth from....she did no work for her fortune...she inherited it then without a lot of effort allowed it to continue to grow


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## stm (11/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Let's put it this way, if she donated or lost 95% of her wealth, she would still have $1.1 billion to play with.
> 
> That isn't just rich, that is unimaginably wealthy. Think of the things that could be achieved if 95% of her $22,000,000,000 were invested in something worthwhile. Medical research. ******* space exploration. But instead she will hoard it and condescend the people who need to work day to day just to eat.


You do realise that Gina does not have some massive vault where she hoards away that $22,000,000,000? I imagine you think she unlocks the door each evening and counts it all and has a big cackle.

Actually, that value is all invested in productive businesses that employ huge numbers of people, generate a huge amount of additional wealth for those people each year, and pay directly and indirectly massive amounts of tax to the Australian government each year. The value of those businesses is the measure of her wealth. If she can increase the value of those businesses by making more profit, then that flows directly through as more wealth and prosperity for the country.

If she does accumulate some money in the bank, then the bank can use that money to lend to other start-up businesses so that they can grow and employ more people, pay more taxes etc.

What won't work very well is if everyone just handed over all their wealth to the government and then let the government decide how it should be invested and/or spent. It's been tried before and has not worked. Indeed, it has led to the greatest numbers of mass murders, deaths from famine, and general misery and poverty ever seen (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim il Sung etc).


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## wobbly (11/3/14)

stm said:


> Actually, that value is all invested in productive businesses that employ huge numbers of people, generate a huge amount of additional wealth for those people each year, and pay directly and indirectly massive amounts of tax to the Australian government each year. The value of those businesses is the measure of her wealth. If she can increase the value of those businesses by making more profit, then that flows directly through as more wealth and prosperity for the country.


Couldn't have put it better and to emphasise how those fortunes change is aptly detailed in the following article in todays Financial Review When the shit hits the fans those with most to loose loose most!!!


http://www.afr.com/p/business/companies/australia_richest_shed_collapse_ubbVSVsWOU7ocHqRWcm2aK

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/3/14)

Its basically her gross wealth, what all her assets could be worth when dug up and sold.

But she still has money in the bank than I will ever see.

And yes, as the commodity prices changes, so does her wealth.

But her comments and attitude are stil pretty shit house.


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## Liam_snorkel (11/3/14)

stm said:


> You do realise that Gina does not have some massive vault where she hoards away that $22,000,000,000? I imagine you think she unlocks the door each evening and counts it all and has a big cackle.
> 
> Actually, that value is all invested in productive businesses that employ huge numbers of people, generate a huge amount of additional wealth for those people each year, and pay directly and indirectly massive amounts of tax to the Australian government each year. The value of those businesses is the measure of her wealth. If she can increase the value of those businesses by making more profit, then that flows directly through as more wealth and prosperity for the country.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the economics lesson, wow I have now seen the light  . Next time I get the urge to donate to charity or give someone a leg-up, I'll say no bugger that, the best way for me to help you is to do a few extra hours at my job & maybe some of the wealth I generate will trickle down...

Let me put it this way. For Australia's richest person, it would be nice to see her represented on one of these lists: http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/world/10-philanthropists-who-have-given-away-billions-to-charity/


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## wide eyed and legless (11/3/14)

Beg to differ stalking Wilbur, you cant scrub your soul with a bar of Pears Moral and Self-righteous soap
and expect to be free of any sins we may commit, everyone has anti social issues and as I pointed out they all have to be managed same as anything else. These have been with us for thousands of years.
Even sub conscientiously we make decisions which would be deemed anti social, as for saying I am a racist I never said that at all, two charities I contribute to on a regular basis, Save the Children and White Ribbon prevention of male violence against women.I don't care what colour,race or religion the beneficiaries are.
Have a read of this.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/racism-is-hot-wired-into-the-human-brain/story-e6frg8y6-1226409560164


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## stm (11/3/14)

Liam 

We are all in heated agreement then!

If you wish to donate to charity and you feel better for it, then go for it. I also donate quite a lot to charity (one in particular that I know does excellent work) because it makes me feel better. Perhaps even a lot more than you, but it is not a competition. Many "rich" people also donate anonymously to charity but they don't feel they need to advertise it.


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## Airgead (11/3/14)

stm said:


> You do realise that Gina does not have some massive vault where she hoards away that $22,000,000,000? I imagine you think she unlocks the door each evening and counts it all and has a big cackle.


Actually... I reckon she does.

As for the employs large numbers of people.. that's a bit of a furfy. The mining industry employs very few people overall. Australia wide its a shade over 170000 people which is a whopping....1.6% of the working population. Twice as many work in caffes...Compare with the remnants of our manufacturing industry (8%) and small business (49%).

Mining returns amazingly little of its (and I use the word deliberately) grotesque profits to the local economy. Gina, repulsive as she is, and Clive (equally repulsive) are outliers in that they actually live here. The vast majority of mining is dominated my massive offshore companies that pay almost no tax and extract millions if not billions in tax breaks and subsidies. The small percentage they do return is being driven down as far as they possibly can through reducing labour with automation and where possible flying in cheap offshore labour.

If you want to see who actually provides massive employment and benefit to the country its small businesses. Maybe they should get the billions in tax breaks. As far as i'm concerned the miners can all go frack off.


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## wide eyed and legless (11/3/14)

And wide -eyed - if you could really put your face between those legs, then I consider that punishment enough.
Sorry Manticle I have changed my mind about that, I keep thinking of that old joke where the guy asks if he can go inside the womans fanny and see's someone else in there, he asked the guy what he was doing and he said he was looking for his shoe.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/3/14)

And look want happened when a mining reasource rent tax was mooted.....no..we cant have the miners paying for the sovereign resources of our country that they dig up for profit. Yes they do pay royalties..but not sufficient


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## Airgead (11/3/14)

Less than 10% of mining profit is paid in tax according to the latest figures.

I'd love my tax rate to be under 10%. And to have all my fuel subsidised on top of that. And to be able to write off capital investment at will. And all the other subsidies they get.


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## manticle (11/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> And wide -eyed - if you could really put your face between those legs, then I consider that punishment enough.
> Sorry Manticle I have changed my mind about that, I keep thinking of that old joke where the guy asks if he can go inside the womans fanny and see's someone else in there, he asked the guy what he was doing and he said he was looking for his shoe.


Like playing two-up inside a blue whale


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## shaunous (11/3/14)

Didn't Gina inherit a fukload, but then buy failed mines and turn them into massive money makers and have fukloads more then a fukload. Or am I thinking of someone else.


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## shaunous (11/3/14)

Call me a Kunt, but I don't donate. I'll throw change into boxes, but I don't still believe my money would get to the people, and I know for a fact that in PNG and Ethiopia all it does is make their pollies richer, probably much the same in other countries I haven't had experience in, but who knows.


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## Liam_snorkel (11/3/14)

this is a good read: http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-mother-of-all-feuds-20130909-2tesa.html



> Lang, noting the changes he saw taking place in his daughter after her second marriage, famously remarked in a letter to her: "At least allow me to remember you as the neat, trim, capable and attractive young lady of the 'Wake Up Australia' tour [when she was married to Greg Milton], rather than the slothful, vindictive and devious baby elephant that you have become. I am glad your mother cannot see you now."


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## Liam_snorkel (12/3/14)

some commentary from Business Spectator:



> Rinehart has no public policy experience beyond lobbying and rent-seeking. She is a businesswoman but not an economist nor an expert on politics or political economy. She has no expertise on social issues or social work or psychology. She is neither a lawyer nor a tax expert.





> Rinehart’s views on the economy -- tax cuts, lower spending and wage cuts -- share an uncomfortable cohesion with her denial of climate change. They are a thinly veiled attempt to make herself richer at the expense of other Australians.





> But misguided and opportunistic politics is one thing. The real concern is that people will look at Rinehart’s success and use that as evidence that she must know what she is talking about. Unfortunately, really smart people can be incredibly silly on topics outside their specialty. Instead, we should look to actual experts to provide clarity on the issues of the day.


full article:
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/3/11/economy/no-merit-rineharts-welfare-whinge


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## stm (13/3/14)

What is it with all the vicious personal abuse? Do people who peddle this feel better for having done so?


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## stm (13/3/14)

Airgead said:


> Less than 10% of mining profit is paid in tax according to the latest figures.
> 
> I'd love my tax rate to be under 10%. And to have all my fuel subsidised on top of that. And to be able to write off capital investment at will. And all the other subsidies they get.


Don't believe everything that former Treasurer Wayne Swan tells you! In fact, the tax rate that mining pays (as a proportion of taxable income) is higher than the average across all industries. Actual facts and evidence can be found here:

http://www.minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/publications/mca_backgrounder_FINAL.pdf

Hope this helps.


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## Airgead (13/3/14)

stm said:


> Don't believe everything that former Treasurer Wayne Swan tells you! In fact, the tax rate that mining pays (as a proportion of taxable income) is higher than the average across all industries. Actual facts and evidence can be found here:
> 
> http://www.minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/publications/mca_backgrounder_FINAL.pdf
> 
> Hope this helps.


Actually... not Swan... ATO figures. I can dig out the links later.

Frankly anything the minerals council puts out is equally suspicious. Given that they are the mouthpiece of the mining industry and all.

I prefer to get my figures from folks without a vested interest...

That whole "proportion of taxable income" thing is where the problem lies. There are so many handouts, concessions and subsidies that based on their actual income they pay stuff all tax at all. They can basically write off or transfer overseas most of their income.

Other industries don't get that level of handout. Nor should they.. but neither should the miners...


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/3/14)

Got to love an industry sponsered report on itself putting forward the facts and figures...yes they are credible figures. Who is not to believe the report.

But I reckon if you got 10 different accountants and economists you would get 30 different outcomes

But the report has nothing to do with Ginas abhorent statements to do with those less fortunate than her.


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## wombil (13/3/14)

Gunna stick my neck out a bit here but doe anyone realise that the stuff that is being dug up and flogged off for a pittance to foreigners actually belongs to all Australians and they should all share in it.
What happens when it runs out and we have to buy the stuff back?
We are getting shafted from all directions.
Greed should be spelt"Gina".


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/3/14)

Yes. We own it, minning companies get the rights to dig it up and sell it and pay royalties to do so. Some miners pay royalties to both federal and state governments. 

In WA the rate is $1 per tonne for minerals.

http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/4407.aspx

NSW rates

http://www.resources.nsw.gov.au/resources/royalty/royalty-rates


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## schrodinger (14/3/14)

All this raving about welfare spending in Australia needs to be put in context, especially coming from a welfare recipient like Ms Rinehart. 

- Total welfare spending in Australia is 18% lower than the OECD average
- Cash 'handouts' to families and children constitute around 3.5% of GDP ($35B vs $1000B)
- Cash handouts to the elderly substantially exceed those to families and children (5.1% or $51B)
- Austudy spending is negligible in this context ($0.4B), and is exceeded by direct cash subsidies to the mining industry ($0.5B)
- The government spends $4.8B subsididing fossil fuel extraction and use, including $2.4B in fuel tax credits to the mining industry
- This subsidy exceeds the total amount spent on government schools ($4.1B)

You can't have an abuse-free safety net, and dependency can become entrenched. But the onus for preventing that lies with the dependent, not the government -- radical cuts to welfare spending don't change people's attitudes. Any cuts have to be coupled to clever incentives and other changes in social policy and spending to have any effect. 

How about, for starters, we stop radically subsidising private schools ($8.1B), and with it their religious proselytisation, and instead impose minimum standards on public schools. My daughter is in year 7 in a public school in a country town (we can't afford the $25k/yr it would cost to send her to the nearest private school), and she's had no homework, no projects, no assignments, nothing whatseover to reinforce learning, since we arrived here 9 months ago. Her school spends 40% more time on sport and PE than on any academic subject. It's ******* pathetic. This is a far greater worry than a few dole bludgers, and it will definitely come back to bite this country in the ass.


http://www.aph.gov.au/~/media/05%20About%20Parliament/54%20Parliamentary%20Depts/548%20Parliamentary%20Budget%20Office/02-2013%20Australian%20Government%20Spending/20131210%20Australian%20government%20spending%20-%20full_report.ashx
http://www.aihw.gov.au/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=60129544564
http://environmentvictoria.org.au/newsite/sites/default/files/useruploads/MF%20and%20EV%202013%20polluter%20handouts%20assessment%20FINAL-4.pdf


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/3/14)

Ufortunatly one Mr Tony Abbott has a set against public schools and wants to feed the private schools with more taxpayer money, along with his push for christian ways.

As for homework, dont know what the go is there. I know both my 2 boys in yr2 & 3 in a public school have had homework from day one. In fact they changed schools last year and the homework structure remained the same between schools.


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## schrodinger (14/3/14)

Tony should realise the FSM helps those who help themselves.

Yeah, the HW thing is pretty ridiculous, and they don't do much work during school either. Good to know it's not generally that way in other public schools, though.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/3/14)

Our dearly beloved PM has in idealogical set on schools.


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## wide eyed and legless (14/3/14)

There have been a lot of studies regarding public and private schools and which of those pupils do better at university, it is generally the public school entrants who are more inclined to do better.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Uni-easier-for-public-school-students/2005/04/05/1112489491760.html


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## booargy (14/3/14)

Are you sure that original article is true or is your news limited?

Funny how some handouts are labelled welfare and others are labelled subsidies, tax breaks etc. A company pays What 20% tax and can earn whatever they can and still get their handout. an income tax earner only has to earn 10k or something and then they get hit with a sliding scale and no more handouts.

Funny how business owners are contributing less but whinge the loudest.


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## Weizguy (14/3/14)

stm said:


> What is it with all the vicious personal abuse? Do people who peddle this feel better for having done so?





stm said:


> Don't believe everything that former Treasurer Wayne Swan tells you! In fact, the tax rate that mining pays (as a proportion of taxable income) is higher than the average across all industries. Actual facts and evidence can be found here:
> 
> http://www.minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/publications/mca_backgrounder_FINAL.pdf
> 
> Hope this helps.


Personal abuse not OK, except when political?


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## schrodinger (14/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> There have been a lot of studies regarding public and private schools and which of those pupils do better at university, it is generally the public school entrants who are more inclined to do better.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Uni-easier-for-public-school-students/2005/04/05/1112489491760.html


Well, first, if you take this at face value, it is a very strong argument for withdrawing subsidies for private schools. Throwing good money after bad.

However, that study suffers from an elementary fallacy: selection bias. It compares students who are already in a particular uni. If public schools are inferior, then you would expect students who managed to succeed anyway to have exceptional self-motivation and good study habits. Just like the kid who comes from a crappy inner city neighborhood -- if he makes it, it's despite his schools and surroundings, not because of them. 

The bottom line is that the two-tiered public/private school system is blatantly regressive. And inconsistent with the whole 'fair go' philosophy.


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## hoppy2B (14/3/14)

So what you're saying is that Gina who was born with a silver spoon up her bum is stupid because she must have gone to a private school, so we should excuse her stupid comments on the grounds of diminished responsibility. h34r:


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## wide eyed and legless (14/3/14)

Never will be a "fair go" or all things will never be equal, if every school became a public school which students will get the most attention, the ones who are doing well.
The ones who struggle will be left behind, all the encouragement will go to the students who are hungry for more knowledge.
Also the private school students, what percentage of those have come from families who's parents came from the public school system, a fair few I would be betting.
I think it is good that there is a choice, private or public.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/3/14)

The Catholic school system is the 2nd biggest educator of K-12 students. And really there is no difference at the end of the day on the difference between the Catholic & Public system. Now when it comes to SCEGGS,KNOX, THE KINGS etc things are different. They are elite which charge accordingly, they charge big fees and have large endowments behind them. You expect top notch education from them. If you can afford to pay ( or want to...its a choice ) then I dont think our taxes should be unproportianatly directed at them. The general Catholic schools deserves the same equal funding as public systems. Its when "The rich " schools put there handout when not needed is an issue.


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## Liam_snorkel (14/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Never will be a "fair go" or all things will never be equal, if every school became a public school which students will get the most attention, the ones who are doing well.The ones who struggle will be left behind, all the encouragement will go to the students who are hungry for more knowledge.Also the private school students, what percentage of those have come from families who's parents came from the public school system, a fair few I would be betting.I think it is good that there is a choice, private or public.


Norway.


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## wide eyed and legless (14/3/14)

Never will be a fair go, and all things being equal, I was referring to the little grey cells, the better students will be nurtured in a public and private school systems. If we start discussing countries how long before China is at the forefront of education, at the moment Japan, South Korea and United kingdom are the top three I was expecting Finland to be the top but apparently have dropped away.
I see where you are coming from Liam with Norway giving equal opportunity to all students but I would be thinking human nature would favour the more academically inclined, unfortunate as it is.
But all is not lost I have relished reading about people who have done well who were considered poor or mediocre students.


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## goomboogo (14/3/14)

There are no private schools in Australia.


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## Liam_snorkel (14/3/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I see where you are coming from Liam with Norway giving equal opportunity to all students but I would be thinking human nature would favour the more academically inclined, unfortunate as it is.


Personally i think there is a place for private schools, particularly if they are going to be small and talent based - ie: music focused, sport focused.. But the general population need high quality standardised education.



goomboogo said:


> There are no private schools in Australia.


care to qualify this?


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/3/14)

What a lot of people forget is that there (in NSW) are public "select schools". These schools are only available to talanted high achieving students from the public school system. And are held in very high regard. 

But it also MUST be pointed out that the NSW system also provide schools for those at the lower end of the spectrum. Those students who will allways struggle with learning and education. 

My father was a one of those who helped redraw the NSW education dept views and methods on teaching and providing remedial education for those students that suffered deafness,disability and learning disabilities.


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## browndog (14/3/14)

schrodinger said:


> All this raving about welfare spending in Australia needs to be put in context, especially coming from a welfare recipient like Ms Rinehart.
> 
> - Total welfare spending in Australia is 18% lower than the OECD average
> - Cash 'handouts' to families and children constitute around 3.5% of GDP ($35B vs $1000B)
> ...


My kids are in a public school and were getting homework from prep onwards, I was pretty pissed off that a prep (kindergarten down south) should be getting home work.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/3/14)

browndog said:


> My kids are in a public school and were getting homework from prep onwards, I was pretty pissed off that a prep (kindergarten down south) should be getting home work.


Why would you be pissed off at that...


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Prep kids should not be getting homework, or be learning "things". The brain at that stage should be learning in play-based situational, social based activities.

Edit:

ie: talk to your children like small developing humans, not retarded midgets. Don't goo goo ga ga them. Don't try to teach them the alphabet before they can wipe their arse or hold a conversation. Most of all, don't send them to church.


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

Well set them up with an account on AHB then. He he


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

Liam: I'm not sure if your edit invalidates my post or not. 
Only some people on AHB are like retarded midgets. 
No offence to any actual retarded midget members of AHB.

Edit: sigh.... Changing regarded to retarded. I's can speel good and is ain't retarded


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

haha Angus you got me mid-edit. Yes I apologise in advance to any cognitively / vertically challenged members of AHB


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

Your apology would go straight over their heads. 
HA HA HA.

Edit: double bazinga


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

Now I'm sorry. :-|


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

No I'm not. That was freaking funny. It's not often I giggle while pushing the post button.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

o/

Haha! That was terrible, we're due for a beer mate.


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

Yep, baby coma and financial constraints are hampering my mass beer intake events. I want to do some final work on my braumausier clone thingy this weekend. Hopefully I can get the lower seal and filter working properly. Then put a brew day on. Lukifer lives 8 mins from me so could turn out messy.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Sounds convenient!

I'll bring my growler i mean keg


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

http://scratchbar.com/events/view/inhoption-2014/

Sounds up our alley. Although dangerously convenient. I'm going to the reds that night so could lob in for arvo beers and then I'll go on to Suncorp?


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Prep kids should not be getting homework, or be learning "things". The brain at that stage should be learning in play-based situational, social based activities.
> .


You have got to be shitting me.....truly...you have got to be shitting me.. I am very happy that my kids learned "things" ...like counting 1 to 10 even before they got to School...

You are a fuckwit if you dont think children cant learn things at a very young age

Note:- first time I have ever called someone a fuckwit on AHB ..but if I get hauled over the coals for it then so be it


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## Doubleplugga (15/3/14)

The only problem with socialism, is eventually you will run out of other peoples money.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You have got to be shitting me.....truly...you have got to be shitting me.. I am very happy that my kids learned "things" ...like counting 1 to 10 even before they got to School...
> 
> You are a fuckwit if you dont think children cant learn things at a very young age
> 
> Note:- first time I have ever called someone a fuckwit on AHB ..but if I get hauled over the coals for it then so be it


hi Stu, I put "things" in inverted commas quite deliberately. I have some knowledge of early childhood education and more than a passing interest in the development of the brain. Learn to read the posts you reply to. The brain at that age should be learning about social interactions, pecking orders, action and consequences etc.

Nobody is going to haul you over the coals for calling me a fuckwit, because you are drunk on a home brewing forum at 12:18AM on a Saturday.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Edit:
> ie: talk to your children like small developing humans, not retarded midgets. Don't goo goo ga ga them. Don't try to teach them the alphabet before they can wipe their arse or hold a conversation. Most of all, don't send them to church.


**** me....not even I would even say stupid shit like that. And I should know about saying stupid shit on AHB......


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Liam....yeah...


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> because you are drunk on a home brewing forum at 12:18AM on a Saturday.


Am I.....


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Yes.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Qualify it


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## angus_grant (15/3/14)

Hey stu,
I agree with Liam. Don't force education on your child. There is no deadline/timeline when a child should or should not be taught letters/numbers/sounds. That being said children are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. But you have to tread gently, and learn to recognise when they are ready to start absorbing new lessons and concepts. 

My wife and I made a conscious decision to not goo-ga and baby talk to our little fella. Why teach him nonsensical sounds that we just have to over-ride with English words later on? But we timed our lessons in time with his development. Which I think is the important factor. It has nothing to do with kindy, pre-school, the fact he is 2 years out of the womb. He is ready for that next lesson. 

Hang on, how did I get dragged into a debate with 2 guys in the internet who have been drinking? Dammit, lose-lose-lose situation. He he.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Stu if you're genuinely interested in what I was referring to, have a look into the Regio Emilia approach (Italian) and also the success of the Finnish school system.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

I agree that children do learn at there own pace, I have been there,doing it. They do learn at there own pace and some children,as my own will"click" at different times compared to others. That is a given. Any parent will pick that up. But you need to keep teaching them. They will not learn if you dont teach them. 

My father, who is well versed in teaching those of highly variable intellect and abilities from pre school to high school, specifically those with hearing loss, has come to realise that the younger you can get them to use sign language and communicate the easier it is for them latter. In life..He used to start teaching parents when there children where 12mnths old to to start to use sign language to communicate with there child. He went on to teach parents of autistic children from a young age to be able to communicate thru learning and teaching


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Liam...please qualify your statement of me "being a drunk on AHB at 12:30am....cause that is a big call my friend


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## wynnum1 (15/3/14)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/12/china-maths-uk_n_4946810.html



Maths teachers from China will be shipped over to boost British pupil performance in the subject and to overhaul the way the UK teaches numeracy.
Around 60 English-speaking teachers from cities such as Shanghai will be taking part in a new exchange programme which will also see English maths teachers working in schools in China, the Department for Education said.
Education Minister Elizabeth Truss, who has recently visited the country to examine how it teaches the subject, has said England can learn from Asian nations which have topped international league tables in key subjects.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I agree that children do learn at there own pace, I have been there,doing it. They do learn at there own pace and some children,as my own will"click" at different times compared to others. That is a given. Any parent will pick that up. But you need to keep teaching them. They will not learn if you dont teach them.
> My father, who is well versed in teaching those of highly variable intellect and abilities from pre school to high school, specifically those with hearing loss, has come to realise that the younger you can get them to use sign language and communicate the easier it is for them latter. In life..He used to start teaching parents when there children where 12mnths old to to start to use sign language to communicate with there child. He went on to teach parents of autistic children from a young age to be able to communicate thru learning and teaching


I'm glad we agree, and all of these things are consistent with what I said. I'm sorry for getting your back up, but I really don't think calling me a fuckwit was called for just because you misinterpreted a post I made.


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## schrodinger (15/3/14)

wynnum1 said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/12/china-maths-uk_n_4946810.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder how that will work out. Might be good, or it might have no effect. The fact that children of recent east Asian immigrants seem to do better in school, on average (at least in the places I've lived), suggests that these kids would excel regardless of the teachers. I'd guess it's largely due to the way parents enforce education at home.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/3/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> I'm glad we agree, and all of these things are consistent with what I said. I'm sorry for getting your back up, but I really don't think calling me a fuckwit was called for just because you misinterpreted a post I made.


Sorry about that Liam. ....I was up late and tired. Sometimes I can get a little to passonate. If I was drunl I would have been in bed long before


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## lukiferj (15/3/14)

Hugs all round?


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

All good mate. Now, back to Gina!


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## wide eyed and legless (15/3/14)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS4HTLEjlO4


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## dicko (15/3/14)

Funny stuff WEAL,

With Ginas departure now captured, I hope that is the end of this thread and it can be buried along with herself and then dug up and sold to ??????? :lol: h34r:


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## goomboogo (15/3/14)

Liam_snorkel, my 'no private schools' comment refers to the fact that every school in Australia receives some portion of their funding from the taxpayer. Therefore, no school is fully private. This could be seen as somewhat pedantic but I am a pedant.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/3/14)

Ah I'm with you now.


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