# Adelaide Tap Water Ok?



## Tanga (27/8/08)

Just read in this thread...
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=25200
... that 'tap water should be OK in most of Australia"

Really? Am I wasting my money buying spring water then? If this is true it'll about half the cost of making beer. I though Adelaide water might have too much chlorine.

I'm only canning it at the moment, so nothing exciting as far as other ingredients - water's the main one.


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## pokolbinguy (27/8/08)

You could allow the water to "air", this supposedly allows the chroline to dissipate. Not sure but I remember this from having fishtanks.

But i'm sure someone else can give you a better answer.


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## Adamt (27/8/08)

Water's the last thing you should look at when brewing kits, I'd pay more attention to using quality yeast, good sanitation practises and maintaining good fermentation temperatures (not necessarily in that order). Then I'd look into moving to mash brewing and getting that under control, then worry about water!

FWIW in general, hard water is traditionally used in ale brewing and soft water in lager brewing.


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## Back Yard Brewer (27/8/08)

Live in the Barossa and I always use tap water for my AG brewing. As Adamt stated worry about yeast and sanitation first.

BYB


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## Tanga (27/8/08)

Thanks guys! That'll save me a heap of bucks. More money to spend on other ingredients =)


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## Adamt (27/8/08)

You mean... "More money to save for mashing equipment"?


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## peas_and_corn (27/8/08)

Thinking about water chemistry so early! I thinks we have an AG brewer in waiting here  I use tap water in my AG beers, and have no problems at all. In fact, since the water here is a little hard, it's ideal for making ales.


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## buttersd70 (27/8/08)

According to the sa water reports, yes adelaid is a little high in chlorine. But as the others have said, it;s nothing that leaving the water out overnight won't fix (if you can even be bothered to go that far.)
Tanga, all the Adelaide guys that have posted in this thread and advised you not to worry are experienced AG brewers. Trust them. Don't stress.


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## katzke (28/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> According to the sa water reports, yes adelaid is a little high in chlorine. But as the others have said, it;s nothing that leaving the water out overnight won't fix (if you can even be bothered to go that far.)
> Tanga, all the Adelaide guys that have posted in this thread and advised you not to worry are experienced AG brewers. Trust them. Don't stress.




Surprised no one has mentioned boiling or Campden tabs for chlorine.

Any thoughts?


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## buttersd70 (28/8/08)

Personally I wouldn't use campden tablets even if I was paid to. Ever. No way, no how.
Boiling, though, is OK, it will remove excess chlorine. But unless the levels are higher than what we have here, It's not really worth the effort.


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## QldKev (28/8/08)

I use one of the twin filteration systems that go under the sink. I think it has helped clean up the water taste a bit. Silly test drink the water, if you can taste crap (chlorine etc) I would filter it. Even one of the portable units with a single cartridge would work. Best thing about the filters is you even get filtered water for house use, it does taste a lot better.

QldKev


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## Gulf Brewery (28/8/08)

Adelaide water is fine for brewing, not as nice as some other states water, but still fine.

We use tap water in the brewery and we add some phosphoric acid to adjust the pH and gypsum to up the calcium level. The mash and sparge water is heated overnight, so chlorine is driven off. 

Cheers
Pedro


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## drsmurto (28/8/08)

So you have advice not only from AG brewers but from a micro brewer as well. 

As for campden tabs, I dont like the idea of adding one chemical to remove another. Without going into the chemistry, you will be increasing the Na+ (or K+, depending on what form the campden tabs are) and sulphate levels and decreasing the pH.

I use untreated tap water for my ales and rainwater for my pilsners. I have tested both these sources so i know exactly what i am dealing with.


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## muckey (28/8/08)

Some exceptionally good replies here.

I also use ordinary tap water. I do have a filter because the water is crap without it so I use the filtered in kits.

As far as I can see, unless your tap water is really bad there is no worry in using it in a kit. The AG guys have far more to worry about and thats mainly for the mash, not the ferment.

leave the water overnight to allow the chlorine to dissipate or use a filter.

As for campden tablets, adding more chemicals to water to get rid of some other chemicals, sounds like a waste of time to me. You'd only introduce a heap of unknowns to your brewing. I think things would get heaps worse before they got better.


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## katzke (28/8/08)

DrSmurto said:


> As for campden tabs, I dont like the idea of adding one chemical to remove another. Without going into the chemistry, you will be increasing the Na+ (or K+, depending on what form the campden tabs are) and sulphate levels and decreasing the pH.



Sorry to kind of do a hijack here but it is an interesting conversation and it may fit right in.

So do you have the science on the campden tabs reducing the PH? Sorry to sound like you dont know, damn typing. I have soft water, low in minerals, and high in PH. If the Campden will lower PH and remove Chlorine then it may be something I like. I have also read that Campden tabs will act as an anti-oxidant to help with HSA during the beginning of the mash.

If my water profile will help here is a thread to it. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=25058


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## Adamt (28/8/08)

As far as I understand... Metabisuplhite (S2O5)2- reduces to SO2 and SO3 in solution.

SO2 leaves solution usually or can form (with water) H2SO3, sulfurous acid, and SO3 + H2O = H2SO4 (sulfuric acid).


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## Tanga (28/8/08)

Adamt said:


> You mean... "More money to save for mashing equipment"?



lol - not yet. Not even onto the 'bits' in kits and bits yet .

One day I might be an AGer, peas and corn, but I need to learn more about the basics first - not least of which is the direction I want to head in. Wheat beers and darks are what's holding my attention at the moment, but who knows?

Having a father that grows wheat for a living might decide me. There's nothing like cheap ingredients .


I will (have) stopped worrying about the water quality. After all if it's good enough for Coopers... 

Not to mention al you AG home brewers.

Thanks again. It's good to learn.



PS Not that I'm worrying, my brewing's not up to it, but how do darks respond to hard water. And wheat beers? Will that be different?


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## Adamt (28/8/08)

Coopers use RO water and treat to required specs (specifically that to emulate the water at Burton-on-Trent, a famous ale-brewing region of the old dart)

Dark ales/stouts (even dark lagers dare I say) and wheat beers (which are ales) are fine with Adelaide tap water.


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## drsmurto (29/8/08)

katzke said:


> Sorry to kind of do a hijack here but it is an interesting conversation and it may fit right in.
> 
> So do you have the science on the campden tabs reducing the PH? Sorry to sound like you dont know, damn typing. I have soft water, low in minerals, and high in PH. If the Campden will lower PH and remove Chlorine then it may be something I like. I have also read that Campden tabs will act as an anti-oxidant to help with HSA during the beginning of the mash.
> 
> If my water profile will help here is a thread to it. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=25058






Adamt said:


> As far as I understand... Metabisuplhite (S2O5)2- reduces to SO2 and SO3 in solution.
> 
> SO2 leaves solution usually or can form (with water) H2SO3, sulfurous acid, and SO3 + H2O = H2SO4 (sulfuric acid).




A chemistry lesson then? I have studied a wee bit of chemistry in my life.......  

Firstly, when we refer to chlorine in water we are not talking about Cl2. 'free chlorine' actually refers to HOCl and OCl(-). Chloramine NH2Cl, is also found in town water. 

Campden tablets are usually in the form of the potassium salt but for those used to the old homebrew santisers, lets refer to it as sodium metabisulphite (Na2S2O5). If you have the potassium salt, replace Na with K in the reactions below.

Na2S2O5 + H2O --> 2NaHSO3

NaHSO3 + HOCl --> NaCl + H2SO4

So in removing the 'free chlorine' you are generated Na(+), Cl(-) and H2SO4, hence, reducing the pH. 

In addition, when you add the campden tabs you arent adding the exact amount required to just remove the free chlorine, you are adding a massive excess. 

Whilst i have a decent understanding of chemistry, i am still learning what impact this has on brewing, hence i dont treat my water at all. Robbing peter to pay paul and all that malarky. From the reading i have done on the subject the most important ions in brewing are Ca(2+) and SO4(2-). Adding campden tabs doesnt change the Ca(2+) concentration but it does increase the amount of SO4(2-) significantly as well as reducing the pH.

Oooo, i do love a good chemsitry discussion and one that involves beer is even better.

Cheers
DrSmurto - uber nerd


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## Adamt (29/8/08)

Yes doctor! I was close....


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## Effect (17/11/08)

I am so going to do a side by side test on a beer that has normal tap water vs one with filtered tap water (might do a third brew with italian mineral water etc)

I really like to do side by side tests to really find out if something is really worth doing.

Side by side tests on my to do list:

Decoction mashed pilsner vs single infusion mash pilsner

No - chill vs chilled beer

and now, filtered water vs tap water!


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## Jase71 (17/11/08)

I admire your quest for perfection. Have you previously posted your other results? And are you using identical fermenters?


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## Effect (17/11/08)

Jase71 said:


> I admire your quest for perfection. Have you previously posted your other results? And are you using identical fermenters?



Have not started yet - still in the thought process.

another one I might do is liquid vs dried yeast. I am pretty sure that liquid will win, but I want to see how far dried yeast has come so far.

Will have to use identical fermenters. I have a fermentation fridge so temps won't be a problem.

Will make a new thread with pics for all the results for all to see.


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## raven19 (17/11/08)

Phillip said:


> Have not started yet - still in the thought process.
> 
> another one I might do is liquid vs dried yeast. I am pretty sure that liquid will win, but I want to see how far dried yeast has come so far.
> 
> ...



Happy to provide assistance in sampling all these beers, the quicker we can drink them all the quicker you can start the next test! :lol:


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## Effect (17/11/08)

raven19 said:


> Happy to provide assistance in sampling all these beers, the quicker we can drink them all the quicker you can start the next test! :lol:




sure thing...


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## drsmurto (17/11/08)

What sort of filter are you using?

The tests i have done (ICP-MS) on water before and after filtration (Brita jug filter) showed no changes to the brewing related chemicals - Ca et al.

The change in taste is due to removal of chlorine and chloramine.


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## peas_and_corn (17/11/08)

I'll be willing to help with the sampling of these experimental beers as well


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## Effect (17/11/08)

DrSmurto said:


> What sort of filter are you using?
> 
> The tests i have done (ICP-MS) on water before and after filtration (Brita jug filter) showed no changes to the brewing related chemicals - Ca et al.
> 
> The change in taste is due to removal of chlorine and chloramine.



Filter


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## Interloper (17/11/08)

As an SA brewer do I *really* want to know the answer? If tests show that it tastes significantly better I'll invest in a filter to improve my beer. I don't really care about my drinking water quality....just my beer quality!


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