# 150 Lashes Attempt



## J'sGarage (13/7/14)

Here's what we are doing today (now, actually)

1 tin of Morgan's "Stockman's Draught"
1kg BC Brew Booster
1 BC Pale Ale/Bitter Grain pack(crystal malt) steeped for 30mins
250g Dex to bump the alcohol content up a smidge
15g Amarillo 
15g Nelson Sav 
15g Willamette 
S-05 yeast 
All hops made into a tea and steeped for 10min then dry hopped as well 
(probably doesn't make a difference but thats how we're doing it.)
SG 1.044

fingers crossed.


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## brzt6060 (13/7/14)

I'm pretty new to homebrew but seeing as no one else has replied I will give you my 2cents.
Feel free to tell me to shove it, I'm just snow balling how I would go about attempting this and I haven't had a 150 lashes in while (asides from the one I had last night and the USA vs. Canada ice hockey).

I always thought the hops for JS150 were:

Amarillo,
Galaxy,
POR,
And NS.

US-05 sounds pretty good to me, I would suggest double pitching at a pretty cold temp, say 12 - 14c and warming it up over 48 hours to 16 - 18c and fermenting for at least 10 to 14 days before cold crashing.

As for extract Morgan's "Stockman's Draught" wouldn't have been my first choice. I would have gone with maybe a Thomas coopers selection wheat beer, coopers Pale Ale or Morgan’s Blue Mountain Lager or the morgans canadienne legere if you want something a little lighter.

Then maybe I would think about maybe 500g of wheat malt 800 light DME.

Let me think about this for a little longer and I will add more if you are interested...


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## indica86 (13/7/14)

brzt6060 said:


> US-05 sounds pretty good to me, I would suggest double pitching at a pretty cold temp, say 12 - 14c and warming it up over 48 hours to 16 - 18


Why would you suggest that? You'll also need to add some Biocloud to get the authentic look.


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## brzt6060 (13/7/14)

indica86 said:


> Why would you suggest that? You'll also need to add some Biocloud to get the authentic look.


[SIZE=12pt]As I said I'm pretty new and just chipping in my 2c cents and giving a bit of thought to how I would attack making a JS150 clone.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Having looked through your post history I don't doubt that you know what you are talking about, and I would love to hear further from you on what you would suggest for a K&K JS150 clone. I'm always looking to learn more. Further if you look though my post history you will see I am very new to this, but that I am eager to learn and eager to help out the forum that has already taught me so much.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]There are a few reasons I didn't bother suggesting any other yeasts:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]1) From what I have read yeasts don't make as big a difference in kit and kilo brewing, don't get me wrong they still make a difference and it’s still important to use the right strain for the type of beer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]2) From what I have read US-05 produces very low diacetyl and a very clean, crisp taste which seems to suit the JS150 beer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]3) I haven't suggested a conventional diacetyl rest due to the cool pitching of the US-05 and the slow warm to 18c after 48 hours.[/SIZE]

*[SIZE=13.5pt]indica86, [/SIZE]*
[SIZE=12pt]If I have been wrong in my post I not only have no issue admitting it, I would also ask you to please point out not just where I am wrong but why I am wrong so that I can continue to learn.[/SIZE]


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## marksy (13/7/14)

Go for it, keep notes and adjust if necessary next brew.


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## indica86 (13/7/14)

Relax, I was wondering why two packets pitched low and then raised would be used.
1) Yeast makes a MASSIVE difference no matter what the brewing, throw a packet of Belle Saison at that brew and it will be so vastly different.
2) Yes, US05 is the goods.
3) US05 - American ale yeast producing well balanced beers with low diacetyl and a very clean, crisp end palate. No need for a rest.

Yes some wheat would have been closer to the mark as that is what I read is in the beer. James Squires also do put Biocloud in it - I read recently - to make it appear cloudy.


BTW - to the OP, the brew looks good, let us know how it all goes.


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## J'sGarage (13/7/14)

this is from the back of the tap at a pub I did a job at,
you are correct with the POR, but as the Morgans has a reasonably high bitterness as it stands, i felt confident in leaving the POR out.

At the end of the day, I am only aiming for similar, if I hit the nail on the head, then great.

As I only have heating control at the moment I am fermenting at 18 as I figure that is achievable with the weather the way it is at the moment (Ipswich,QLD)


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## brzt6060 (13/7/14)

indica86 said:


> Relax, I was wondering why two packets pitched low and then raised would be used.
> 1) Yeast makes a MASSIVE difference no matter what the brewing, throw a packet of Belle Saison at that brew and it will be so vastly different.


Apologies if my response came across as defensive, it wasn't meant that way at all.

100% agree that yeasts do make a difference and that it is important to use a yeast that much the style of beer, what I was getting at was the difference between “US-05” and say “Wyeasts 1056” wouldn't be worth getting hung up over on a K&K brew.

OP: Sorry if I have high jacked your thread a little, I like the sound of your brew and am keen to hear updates on how it turns out.


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## Mickcr250 (13/7/14)

Should be a good beer as is but if I where to do it I would use the coopers pale ale tin and wouldn't worry about the crystal as I think it might be a little sweet


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## J'sGarage (13/7/14)

I was a bit unsure with the crystal too, but to my palate the 150 is fairly sweet.


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## indica86 (13/7/14)

For me it is sweet too.
If I was doing it I'd go the Coopers APA can + a Coopers wheat can, 500 g DME and 250g crystal.
Steep the crystal, strain, add the DME to and water to 5 litres, bring to boil, add the hops in the OP.
Boil 10 minutes, strain, add the rest to 23 litres, pitch yeast @ 18°c and ferment.


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## burrster (13/7/14)

brzt6060 said:


> ........ I would suggest double pitching at a pretty cold temp, say 12 - 14c and warming it up over 48 hours to 16 - 18c ...............


I'm not sure why you would double pitch an *ale* yeast at that cold a temp, and raise to fermentation temps. You run the risk it going dormant/starting really slow and therefore increasing the risk of infection in the first 48 hrs. 
US05 Works best between 15 - 22(but does work at 12), so my suggestion would be to pitch as close to 18 as you can. I cannot see the harm in double pitching other than wasting cash. An OG of 1.044 does not normally require 2 packets of yeast. It's more for anything over 1.050 I believe.

I have no idea if the OP recipe will be like the 150 lashes, but my 2 cents is to replace the dextrose with dry light malt. Other than that I reckon it should be a winner!


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## Mickcr250 (13/7/14)

If you think its too sweet then why recommend steeping the cystal ? And also I think a 10 minute boil of all those hops will make it a bit high in bitterness. I would make the Willamette at 10 and the rest at flame out


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## Mickcr250 (13/7/14)

Don't mean to be rude but that's just my 2c


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## indica86 (13/7/14)

I didn't say too sweet, I said sweet too.
And I ran it through IanH's spreadsheet...
**** me, why bother...


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## Mickcr250 (13/7/14)

OK fair enough my bad I didn't use software just my thoughts


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## RobboMC (15/7/14)

Some great thoughts here on this subject:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/66055-james-squire-150-lashes-pa-recipe/


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## mrsupraboy (16/7/14)

The recipe from what I no which may be of there database  has no Por. Exactly what u have at the top but add galaxy. Alot of pubs put what they think is in it on the label. I could possibly show u all the right ibu's but got no alphas. None are dry hopped but are all late additions to the boil


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## mrsupraboy (16/7/14)

Also no crystal in js150l. Mostly traditional ale, wheat and munich


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## syke (17/7/14)

To get a similar flavour I use coopers pale ale kit, some galaxy hops steeped for 10mins before hand them added to the brew and US - 05 yeast.

Gives a nice flavour that is recognizable in the style of 150 lashes.


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## i-a-n (19/7/14)

If you can get hold of a Woodfordes Wherry kit.... From Muntons in England, just do that it's a dead ringer for Lashes.


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## brzt6060 (2/8/14)

From the james squire website:

STYLE Australian pale ale
HOPS Amarillo, Willamette, Nelson Sauvin , Galaxy
MALTS Pale, Munich, Wheat


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## mrsupraboy (25/8/14)

Spoke to the brewers at the beer festival and they clarified that they use lagar yeasts at high temp. Around 15 16 degree s


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## J'sGarage (6/9/14)

Ok, so this had been in the keg for quite a while now and is only now beginning to taste good.
Impressions veeeery hoppy. to the point of tasting like grass. (grass taste has only dissapeared in the last few days)
Way too dark, and too bitter.
All this being said, its nice, but a little to bitter for my taste( after 2 or 3 I seem to care less about the bitterness, what's that about?  )

I think the next one will lose the crystal, and use carapils instead. And I wont be dry hopping again, until I purchase a filter.

All in all, not a failure, but not what I had envisioned. I have a 6pack of 150s here at the moment, so tomorrow I'll pour a genuin 150, and my 150 side by side and take a photo for colour comparison.

Regards
Jason


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## MastersBrewery (6/9/14)

mrsupraboy said:


> Spoke to the brewers at the beer festival and they clarified that they use lagar yeasts at high temp. Around 15 16 degree s


I dare say they are fermenting under pressure therefore higher temps can be used, so if you were going to head down this path I'd probably go with danish lager around 12c.

MB


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## J'sGarage (7/9/14)

after tasting them back to back, my effort isn't too far off. tastes ok by itself, but after a real JS150, it tastes green. I'll give it a few more weeks and see where we sit. (mines on the left)


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## menoetes (7/9/14)

I love these clone experiments, good work J'sGarage and cheers for sharing the results.

If you didn't want to drop the crystal completely, you could try a light crystal (aka crystal 40). Brewers choice (where I think you are shopping since you are buying 'grain packs') sells it but you might have to ask for it to be milled special. Carapils will work fine but light crystal shouldn't effect the colour too much while still giving you that hint of sweetness in a 150 lashes.

Some of that darker colour might also be coming from the malt in the draught kit too, perhaps a pale or blonde kit might have the lighter malts you're looking for.

As for the info on the JS taps and website, I'm not sure I credit them as being totally honest. I don't blame them for wanting to preserve trade secrets and I was at the newly opened 'Charming Squire' bar in South Brisbane yesterday where they've got hop and malt info for each beer up on big boards behind the bar.

They claim that the jack of spades is single hopped with Dr Rudi (aka Super Alpha) where-as I'm fairly certain it's good ol' Willamette. So I'd be taking any info they released with a healthy dose of skepticism. 

Keep trying sir and let us know if there's a version 2.0 of your clone attempt


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