# Best Priming Option For A Stout



## enigmatic (20/7/08)

Hi,

I've brewed a stout and would like some advice on the best method of priming it when I bottle it. It tastes fantastic and I don't want to ruin it by getting my priming wrong.

Thanks,

Chris


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## seemax (20/7/08)

enigmatic said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've brewed a stout and would like some advice on the best method of priming it when I bottle it. It tastes fantastic and I don't want to ruin it by getting my priming wrong.
> 
> ...



I find bulk priming the simplest and quickest method. I've only ever used dextrose (glucose), however others use DME. The amount will depend on the your desired carbonation level (fizziness!) and your fermentation temperature. Try using this handy online calculator.

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html

I recently did an Irish Stout with about 6g/L of dextrose and it turned out well. Darker beers lend well to low fizz.

Google bulk priming, there is loads on info around. I usually dissolve the dex in about 500mL or so and boil for 10mins, pour into container, syphon the wort into there with some whirlpool action (avoid bubbling though), let it sit for 5-10mins then bottle away.


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## benny_bjc (20/7/08)

I haven't brewed a stout but I think if you use brown sugar it may give a slightly caramel taste. Not sure though. Others might be able to confirm this.


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## bell (20/7/08)

Another option that IIRC came from this board was to do what the OP called "pseudo bulk-priming".

Once you've established what rate of sugar you're going to use for each bottle you multiply that rate by the number of bottles you intend to fill.

Then multiply the number of bottles by 10 to give you the total amount of priming liquid. Next step is to pour that amount of boiling water into a sterilised container that already has the sugar in it. Give it a stir to dissolve it entirely.

The secret item I haven't mentioned is a syringe - 10mls works most easily, but larger is okay too. My wife is a nurse so we seem to have syringes that end up going through the wash semi-regularly (still sterile in their packaging in case you were wondering!).

Depending on your bottling setup this next step will vary. I draw up 10mls of priming liquid/solution and just squirt it into my clean, empty bottles. I then bottle as normal.

Doing it this way is very quick and there's no mess. It also seems to negate the need to tip bottles up half a dozen times or shake them after capping to try and get some of the sugar to dissolve.

The only additional thing I might add is to make up slightly more liquid at the same rate as you think you'll need - I normally do an extra 5 bottles' worth.

Happy priming.


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## enigmatic (17/8/08)

Sorry for not replying before now, the whole household has been unwell so haven't been near the homebrew.

I've bottled the stout tonight and used 7g/l. 

Re the recipe, it was the Carlingford Stout from here:

http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/ourhomebrews.html

Recipe 38. Looking forward to trying it in a month or two.

Cheers,
Chris


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## jojai (17/8/08)

So for a pilsner or any other thinner beer dex is no good? I've found it okay, but then again I haven't even achieved as greater body as I'd like.


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## HoppingMad (17/8/08)

beer007 said:


> I haven't brewed a stout but I think if you use brown sugar it may give a slightly caramel taste. Not sure though. Others might be able to confirm this.



Just bottled a stout and used brown sugar to prime by way of experiment. Have heard similar to beer007's comments - apparently brown sugar has molasses or something in it to give it that taste? I was looking to give my stout something extra, but sounds like yours didn't need it as it was yum already so you're right to go the way you have. 

Using the brown was a bugger to dispense into the bottles while using a double ended measuring spoon. The stuff is sticky as hell and gets stuck in the cylinder bit of the measure - gave up and went with a teaspoon to speed things up (haven't got around to the bulk priming thing).

Still have a while to wait to see if the brown sugar experiment works out (and adds some good caramel to boot). Never used the stuff before... but after a week it looks like I'm getting carbonation in the bottles so the stuff seems work so far!

Hopper.


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> If the beer is watery, thin, and a load of rubbish to begin with, dex will make it worse. For a stout, even if its a kit and kilo, there will be _ample _malt backbone to it to negate the argument. Just use dex.






jojai said:


> So for a pilsner or any other thinner beer dex is no good? I've found it okay, but then again I haven't even achieved as greater body as I'd like.



Jojai,
What I was aiming at more than anything is if the beer is too thin for what it _should _be, usually due to too much dextrose being used in the primary ferment, priming with malt can _help _push a little more body in it. Help, not fix. And as the beer in question was a stout, I had ales in mind. A pilsner is _meant _to be a light bodied beer anyway. It should still have a good balance of malt, but should be light bodied. Not watery, but light. If your beer is lacking the body it should have, that really should be addressed more by what is going into primary, as opposed to what it is being primed with.


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

HoppingMad said:


> apparently brown sugar has molasses or something in it to give it that taste?



Brown sugar does indeed have molasses in it, usually around 6%, and is produced by adding molasses to refined white sugar. Demarera sugar is somewhat similar, but is less precise on how much molasses is in it. It is unrefined cane sugar, which has molasses in it naturally.

Normally, I'm very anti on using sucrose, even in priming. Brown sugar as a prime in a heavy ale or a stout is my exception to this, the molasses flavour easily masks any anadise produced to break the sucrose bonding, and it gives a great flavour.

Another one that is worth experimenting with is natural 100% maple syrup. Smoky, woody and dry.


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## reviled (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Brown sugar does indeed have molasses in it, usually around 6%, and is produced by adding molasses to refined white sugar. Demarera sugar is somewhat similar, but is less precise on how much molasses is in it. It is unrefined cane sugar, which has molasses in it naturally.
> 
> Normally, I'm very anti on using sucrose, even in priming. Brown sugar as a prime in a heavy ale or a stout is my exception to this, the molasses flavour easily masks any anadise produced to break the sucrose bonding, and it gives a great flavour.
> 
> Another one that is worth experimenting with is natural 100% maple syrup. Smoky, woody and dry.



How much maple syryp per litre would you use for a stout? Sounds interesting...

Also, with brown sugar do you use the same amount as with dextrose? Or more/less?


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## mwd (18/8/08)

I doubt that using brown sugar to prime would do much flavourwise to a stout due to the very small amount used per each bottle. ( IMHO )

No shortage of sugar round here it grows on trees


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## Steve (18/8/08)

A lady in our club primed a stout she made with black jelly beans. One for stubbies and two for longnecks. It was beautiful, added a subtle liquorice to the beer.
Cheers
Steve


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

reviled said:


> How much maple syryp per litre would you use for a stout? Sounds interesting...
> 
> Also, with brown sugar do you use the same amount as with dextrose? Or more/less?


I would go same as dextrose. for the amount of brown.
Maple syrup....better in an amber ale than a stout. Use the same amount as liquid glucose (about 10%less than dex, from memory)




Tropical_Brews said:


> I doubt that using brown sugar to prime would do much flavourwise to a stout due to the very small amount used per each bottle. ( IMHO )
> 
> No shortage of sugar round here it grows on trees


Depends really on how heavy or roasty the stout is, I suppose. The flavour added is fairly subtle, its more really just for a bit of smoothness against the asttringency of the roast. In an amber, or a dark ale, the flavour is a bit more noticable.


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## SJW (18/8/08)

For what its worth I would just use 100g of Dextrose for 23 litres. Unless you have made that many stouts that you have the std brew down pat I would not be messing around with an otherwise perfect brew by using any funky priming sugars. If its good, just prime it and drink it.


Steve


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

SJW said:


> For what its worth I would just use 100g of Dextrose for 23 litres. Unless you have made that many stouts that you have the std brew down pat I would not be messing around with an otherwise perfect brew by using any funky priming sugars. If its good, just prime it and drink it.
> 
> 
> Steve


I agree, absolutely, dex in a stout is the way to go. But hoppingmad is looking at experimentation to give his stout 'something extra', and so I assume it is less than a 'perfect' brew. Hence the digression into using alternate sugars....as something that is worth playing around with if you're in an experimental frame of mind, not as something you would do as usual practice.

On reflection, if anyone _is _looking at experimenting, why not prime the majority of the batch normally, and just reserve a few bottles for experimental stuff. It's safer that way.


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## kook (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Normally, I'm very anti on using sucrose, even in priming.



Can I ask why?

I understand perfectly if you're taking about a high percentage of the fermentables, but this is the same regardless of the simple sugar used.

Why is sucrose no good for priming, and why is it no good in a beer?


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

Sucrose is a disacchiride, which contains 1 glucose and 1 fructose. Sucrose in and of itself does not ferment. The bond between the monsacchirides has to be broken. There are 2 ways to do this. The first is by balling it with the adition of acid. (this is a cooking process, and is how invert sugar is made. Invert sugar is sucrose where the bond has been broken.) The second way is by introduction of an enzyme, either manually, or through production by the yeast. This enzyme is called invertase, aka beta-fructofuranosidase. Invertase produces off flavours, most noticably a 'cider' taste. 

Now this is why plain sugar should not be used in the main fermentables of the batch. I go further, and state that it should not be used in priming either (although a lot of people disagree with my viewpoint on this). My main reasoning for being anti, even in priming, is that _some _people are hyper sensetive to this enzyme and the flavours it produces, ie they can taste it even in small quantaties. Most people won't detect it in such low quantities as caused by priming. Some people do. For _me (and I stress, that it is for MY tastes and preferences), _if it is used in priming, I can usually detect it in a beer that is not overly strong in either malt or hop flavour. The amounts in the prime don't make me spit it out, nothing that dramatic, its just more of an _aftertaste _that I would rather not have.


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## kook (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Invertase produces off flavours, most noticably a 'cider' taste.



What compounds does invertase produce that create this "cider" taste?


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## warrenlw63 (18/8/08)

enigmatic said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've brewed a stout and would like some advice on the best method of priming it when I bottle it. It tastes fantastic and I don't want to ruin it by getting my priming wrong.
> 
> ...






buttersd70 said:


> Sucrose is a disacchiride, which contains 1 glucose and 1 fructose. Sucrose in and of itself does not ferment. The bond between the monsacchirides has to be broken. There are 2 ways to do this. The first is by balling it with the adition of acid. (this is a cooking process, and is how invert sugar is made. Invert sugar is sucrose where the bond has been broken.) The second way is by introduction of an enzyme, either manually, or through production by the yeast. This enzyme is called invertase, aka beta-fructofuranosidase. Invertase produces off flavours, most noticably a 'cider' taste.
> 
> Now this is why plain sugar should not be used in the main fermentables of the batch. I go further, and state that it should not be used in priming either (although a lot of people disagree with my viewpoint on this). My main reasoning for being anti, even in priming, is that _some _people are hyper sensetive to this enzyme and the flavours it produces, ie they can taste it even in small quantaties. Most people won't detect it in such low quantities as caused by priming. Some people do. For _me (and I stress, that it is for MY tastes and preferences), _if it is used in priming, I can usually detect it in a beer that is not overly strong in either malt or hop flavour. The amounts in the prime don't make me spit it out, nothing that dramatic, its just more of an _aftertaste _that I would rather not have.



:blink: 

FWIW 120 odd grams of any suga (oops) in 23 litres of stout isn't really going to rock anybody's world.

Enigmatic. Use whatever pleases you.

Warren -


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

Kook. Acetaldehyde.


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## therook (18/8/08)

Before i went to kegs, i use to bulk prime with 140 grams of DME for a 23 litre batch.

Rook


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## wrangler (18/8/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> FWIW 120 odd grams of any suga (oops) in 23 litres of stout isn't really going to rock anybody's world.



What's better, raw or white suga Warren?


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## kook (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Kook. Acetaldehyde.



Which should be broken down again into ethanol ?


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## warrenlw63 (18/8/08)

wrangler said:


> What's better, raw or white suga Warren?



No comment, bound by a restraining "orda". h34r: 

Warren -


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

'Should' being the operative word.


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## kook (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> 'Should' being the operative word.



IMO if you have a healthy, complete fermentation there is no reason that you should end up with excessive acetaldehyde production from the use of sucrose. I hate acetaldehyde in beers too, however this is often associated white white sugar incorrectly. It is usually due to poor yeast health due to either underpitching or excessive fermentation temperatures. Hence why kit brews are often associated with "cider" or "green apple" regardless of the sugars used in fermentation.


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## HoppingMad (18/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Another one that is worth experimenting with is natural 100% maple syrup. Smoky, woody and dry.


Interesting on the maple syrup. That stuff can get expensive though. I guess over in North America it's a lot cheaper and readily available particularly in the rural spots. Have relatives there that get big plastic jugs of the stuff for a pittance. The cheapest stuff in the supermarkets here is 'maple flavoured' (more like golden syrup with additives?), if only we had the plantations the yanks had. When the budget allows might have a tinker though with a small batch though, interesting idea. Don't think getting the relos to ship it over would be worthwhile - the weight and shipping could be a killer.

Hopper.


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## buttersd70 (18/8/08)

oh, yeah, proper maple syrup is bloody expensive. I used it back in my k&k days as an experimental thing. 12 months later, had 1 bottle left, and had long moved into full extract brewing....tried it, and it was good. interesting flavour.


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## jojai (19/8/08)

You can get 250mL bottles for $4.50 of Queen Real Maple Syrup at my local convenience store (everything else is 200% overpriced). I reckon I might use some in a beer.. .What styles would suit it? (Sorry to digress, but I think the priming question is over?).


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## buttersd70 (19/8/08)

When I tried it was back when I was doing kits, and I added a 250ml (ish) bottle in primary with a coopers real ale kit. So something similar ish, should work well.


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## Muggus (20/8/08)

For alot of stronger and darker beers I generally cut down my priming sugar (dextrose generally) in half, especially if the FG is quite high.
Nothing is worse than an overcarbed stout, or the like. The prickly/sharp carbonation tends to add to the overall astrigency of the flavour, making it harder to sit down and drink.
If the carbonation is a bit less lively, but still there, you can really appreciate the richness and creaminess of the palate and flavour of the beer more...IMO anyway!


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## HoppingMad (21/8/08)

Well my brown sugar priming experiment has turned out odd.

Got a beer with a good head on it, but no overpowering tastes seem to be added and not really detecting the caramel that I thought might come from all that I'd read. Tasting pretty darn similar to when I tried a sip from the fermenter tap before bottling (odd I know, but its in the name of brew science right?)

The caramel taste of brown sugar priming could be busted. Not sure as yet - will leave the brewskis a few more weeks to see if any more flavours arrive. Somehow I doubt it but you never know. Did hop it pretty heavy with Fuggles so might try again with a less agressively flavoured stout and see.

Hopper.


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## buttersd70 (21/8/08)

I think the flavour profile of a stout might be a bit heavy for the brown sugar. Something a little less aggressive, like a brown ale, might give better results.


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