# Fresh Wort



## Shifter (22/2/11)

I have just procured a few containers of Fresh Wort - Czech Pilsner. Instructions say just add water and yeast. Would it help the flavour if hops (what variety?) were added at the or near the end of fermentation.

The first one of these I made was very good, but I would just like to know if it can be improved by dry hopping?

Any advice welcome.


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## going down a hill (22/2/11)

Shifter said:


> I have just procured a few containers of Fresh Wort - Czech Pilsner. Instructions say just add water and yeast. Would it help the flavour if hops (what variety?) were added at the or near the end of fermentation.
> 
> The first one of these I made was very good, but I would just like to know if it can be improved by dry hopping?
> 
> Any advice welcome.



I haven't used these fresh wort kits so I don't know how much they have been hopped. If you want to do some dry hopping Czech Saaz would be the way to go. Give it a crack and see what happens, it's always good to compare if you only change one thing.


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## felten (22/2/11)

Czech pilsners aren't usually dry hopped because saaz can come out pretty grassy, YMMV though.


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## going down a hill (22/2/11)

felten said:


> Czech pilsners aren't usually dry hopped because saaz can come out pretty grassy, YMMV though.


I stand corrected. 

Would you dry hop anything or would you leave it alone?


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## stux (22/2/11)

Maybe a hop tea?


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## Bribie G (22/2/11)

Fresh wort kits can lack hop aroma because they are basically a commercially-produced no chill cube ( a method of cooling wort that all grain brewers often use ). Because the wort is boiling when it goes into the cube, it is at a high temperature for the first hour or so, which can nuke hop aroma. 

One thing you could do is bring a litre of the wort to the boil, add 30g Saaz, boil for 10 minute, cool quickly and pour the whole lot into the fermenter including the remainder of the cube. This will emulate a late kettle hop addition.


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## Shifter (22/2/11)

BribieG, 
Thanks for that, birilliant suggestion.


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## argon (22/2/11)

BribieG said:


> One thing you could do is bring a litre of the wort to the boil, add 30g Saaz, boil for 10 minute, cool quickly and pour the whole lot into the fermenter including the remainder of the cube. This will emulate a late kettle hop addition.




A handy way to do this is to drop the entire cube down to fridge temp ie 4C remove a litre or 2 and boil it with some hops then add the boiling portion into the fermenter along with the remainder of the cube (which is still at 4C) Essentially the very hot portion plus the very cool portion will mix to a temp which is spot on for pitching. You also get the added benefit of "locking in" you're late hop additions due to your rapid chilling.


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## Shifter (22/2/11)

Argon,

Thanks for that, good advice.


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## mwd (22/2/11)

I have made a couple of FWKs and found them a little bit lacking. Bribie's method looks like a good way to add some hops. Also I found that if you only add water to make up to about 20Litres you get a bit more of a tasty brew 19l would be even better presuming you have the 17L cubes of Fresh Wort.


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## Camo1234 (22/2/11)

I take it that this Fresh wort is like the stuff they are selling at Craft Brewer?

they say on their site to dry hop certain hops.


Has anyone tried these from Craft Brewer?

$49 plus hops and yeast is a bit steep though???? What would an average AG batch cost?


Camo


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## mwd (22/2/11)

yep they are a bit expensive and even more so if you need them shipped. It is the closest you can get to AG if you don't have the room or equipment to do your own.


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## Shifter (22/2/11)

I bought 6 x 15 ltrs of fresh wort form another source not Craft Brewer. Paid $230 for the wort and about $100 for freight to Hobart. Total cost $330 for 120 ltrs of beer, that's 253 pints, which is about $1.30 per pint, not bad when you conisder a pint of pi.. in a pub is upwards of $6 +, and good beer is nearer to $9 per pint. Not a bad deal, for me anyway and it makes pretty drinkable beer.


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## Camo1234 (22/2/11)

Shifter said:


> I bought 6 x 15 ltrs of fresh wort form another source not Craft Brewer. Paid $230 for the wort and about $100 for freight to Hobart. Total cost $330 for 120 ltrs of beer, that's 253 pints, which is about $1.30 per pint, not bad when you conisder a pint of pi.. in a pub is upwards of $6 +, and good beer is nearer to $9 per pint. Not a bad deal, for me anyway and it makes pretty drinkable beer.




I am lucky that I am a 10 min drive from Craft Brewer so picking up the wort is easy... I think I might give it a go for a batch soon... I am about to do my first extract brew and the total cost for it has come to around $50-60 as well so may as well give the fresh wort a go and see what it tastes like.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/2/11)

Camo1234 said:


> I am lucky that I am a 10 min drive from Craft Brewer so picking up the wort is easy... I think I might give it a go for a batch soon... I am about to do my first extract brew and the total cost for it has come to around $50-60 as well so may as well give the fresh wort a go and see what it tastes like.



Ask Ross for a try before you buy. That way you know what you are buying.

His kits are pretty good value, given that he does all the labour. I have a number of mates whom this would suit - like good beer, like it cheap, but don't want to put in the labour for it.

10 minutes? From Northgate to Capalaba? You do realise that the police live on both the Gateway arterials and Old Cleveland Road.

Goomba


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## Camo1234 (22/2/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Ask Ross for a try before you buy. That way you know what you are buying.
> 
> His kits are pretty good value, given that he does all the labour. I have a number of mates whom this would suit - like good beer, like it cheap, but don't want to put in the labour for it.
> 
> ...




haha... yes maybe 20-30 mins is more like it... but I used to live at Gumdale so it seems like a quick drive!

So is the beers that he has on tap the ones that he sells in the fresh wort kits? I saw this last week when I went there but didnt ask what beers were on tap.

Sounds like I might need to make another trip across town in the next few weeks :icon_cheers:


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (22/2/11)

Camo1234 said:


> haha... yes maybe 20-30 mins is more like it... but I used to live at Gumdale so it seems like a quick drive!
> 
> So is the beers that he has on tap the ones that he sells in the fresh wort kits? I saw this last week when I went there but didnt ask what beers were on tap.
> 
> Sounds like I might need to make another trip across town in the next few weeks :icon_cheers:



The craftbrewer FWK yes - not the other brands.

You may need to ask him, though, what he does extra.

And have a fridge that can keep it within the temp ranges required.

Goomba


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## Maheel (22/2/11)

i just did a CB FWK and have just started drinking it the last few days (1st one i have ever done)

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4107
Bacchus American Pale Ale - Fresh Wort Kit (Approx SG 1048 Alc 4.8%).

i actually need to go to the bottle shop for something to compare it to and do a side by side comparison 

it's pretty good i am happy with it and i did not dry hop, 
bit cloudy in the glass but have been drinking some i put in stubbies. 

i have some tallies for later on 

1000% improvement on straight tins of goo IMO the cloudiness does not worry me :icon_drool2: 

i have a Argon LFPA (BIAB) boiling on the stove right now ... hoping it might be as good or better


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## Camo1234 (22/2/11)

Yeah I am doing the Argon LFPA extract version this weekend!

Very much looking forward to it!


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## mwd (23/2/11)

After doing a FWK you will probably find it puts kits and extract brews into the shade.

I found after 2 FWKs I could not get anywhere near the tastyness using my usual kits and bits.
I also learned what 'kit twang' was like.

My problem is my LHBS no longer stocks the 17L FWK and the shipping costs from the Sponsors above make them uneconomical. Maybe I should buy a bunch of them like the OP and save by buying in bulk.


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## Bribie G (23/2/11)

Don't forget you also end up with a $17 value empty cube which is perfect for no-chilling, cold conditioning if you move onto AG brewing.


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## argon (23/2/11)

BribieG said:


> Don't forget you also end up with a $17 value empty cube which is perfect for no-chilling, cold conditioning if you move onto AG brewing.




that's where i got all my cubes from... better quality than the bunnings cubes... that's for sure


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## Ross (23/2/11)

Several of our FWK's would cost you more to make buying the grain & hops off the shelf & that's just for the ingredients. 
When you take into account fuel costs, time, & a free $18 cube, I reckon the value is pretty good.
This week we are adding a German Pilsner + Rock & Timber Draught  to the line up.

Yes, all our FWK's are on tap in the brewery. Over 30 beers on tap at the moment, which I guess could be a record for a micro in Australia.
$10 bottomless glass & refunded if you purchase.

cheers Ross


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## bradsbrew (23/2/11)

Ross said:


> Several of our FWK's would cost you more to make buying the grain & hops off the shelf & that's just for the ingredients.
> When you take into account fuel costs, time, & a free $18 cube, I reckon the value is pretty good.
> This week we are adding a German Pilsner + Rock & Timber Draught  to the line up.
> 
> ...



$10.00 bottomless glass. Does QR let you take cubes on the train? The only way I will buy new cubes in the future is full of FW. The black goat was good and the keg is about to blow. Might go the czech pils next. When you take the cost of a cube $30 for a ready made batch is pretty bloody good.

Cheers Brad


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## Bribie G (23/2/11)

The bottomless glass is great if you aren't driving. When da Northern crue fronted up there the other week we ended up blowing a couple of the kegs :icon_drunk: - mostly TidalPete's doing of course.


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## mwd (23/2/11)

I would just love to partake in that one, doubt that Virgin Blue or Jerkstar would allow a couple of cubes to be put in the baggage hold.


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## muckanic (4/3/11)

BribieG said:


> Fresh wort kits can lack hop aroma because they are basically a commercially-produced no chill cube ( a method of cooling wort that all grain brewers often use ). Because the wort is boiling when it goes into the cube, it is at a high temperature for the first hour or so, which can nuke hop aroma.



My suspicion is actually that none/few of the manufacturers are late hopping for reasons of cost. If they were and the lid went on straight away, which it presumably should for reasons of sterility, then I would have thought the aroma has nowhere to go and remains locked in. (Could be displaying my ignorance of cubes here). In that case, the bigger issue is the usual one of calculating the bittering addition from that hour of contact time. Ross seems to be recommending up to 90g worth of dry hopping for his bigger kits, which is a slightly sneaky way of drumming up more business when you think about it. <_< A secondary issue is the merits of dry-hopping styles that don't traditionally use that approach to aroma ...


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## Ross (4/3/11)

Nothing sneaky Muckanic, that's how the beers were designed, long before we looked at making the FWK's. Our IPA is based on Meantimes IPA & it's late hopping is pretty well exactly the same as theirs, including the dry hopping.
We have approx 140gms of Fuggles/EKG already added at 5mins/flame out. The dry hopping is paramount to the beer style, but nothing stopping you from not adding, the beer would still be excellent. With approx 300gms of hops in both our premium beer kits I don't think we could be acussed of skimping. As i've mentioned before, both kits would cost you more making them from the basic ingredients (at regular retail pricing).

Cheers Ross

Our Stone & Wood Clone has it's first addition at 20 mins & 2 more large additions after that, we have not cut back on late hopping in any of our brews.


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## govorko1974 (5/3/11)

if you buy in bulk how long can you keep them for..and what temps do they have do be stored at


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## mwd (5/3/11)

govorko1974 said:


> if you buy in bulk how long can you keep them for..and what temps do they have do be stored at




I think Craft Brewer stated 2 year shelf life but I doubt you keep it that long. Might be difficult to keep at an ideal temperature in the tropics just say as cool as you can manage. FWKs in the shops are not kept refridgerated they just put them on the shelf so it cannot be critical.

P.S. Marlin Homebrew in Cairns stock those Barons kits that are similar to FWK but only weigh 10Kg.

I am planning on getting at least 2 of the CB kits before the cheap shipping deal ends March even though I don't need the cubes.


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