# Is there any hope ?



## Goose (9/2/16)

Found this in the back of my fridge.

According to most yeast calculators, this one is dead.

However, just for a laugh, I pitched it into a 1 litre starter today.

Do you think I have any hope ?


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## Rocker1986 (9/2/16)

Probably not but will be interested to see if it does do anything!


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## Dan Pratt (9/2/16)

did you smack the packet first ?


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## Goose (9/2/16)

well its only just 100g of dme to find out. funny though when i opened the pack I couldn't detect any of that vegemite smell which is the sure indicator of autolysis.

if i get some activity within a week i'll step up to 2 litres then finally 5 if I decide to use it.

sitting on a stir plate now at 19 deg C. shall see.


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## Goose (9/2/16)

Pratty1 said:


> did you smack the packet first ?


yes. 

though i considered not doing so and thought about adding a bit of the wyeast yeast nutrient instead. I smacked it but did not wait for any activity. That would have been a fat chance I reckon.


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## TSMill (9/2/16)

My money is on it working.....but I would have gone a smaller starter, and no more than a gravity of 1.020.


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## manticle (9/2/16)

Of course there's hope. You only need one viable cell for hope.

Treat it with super love, don't skimp on any step, build it properly and expect/understand the potential worst scenario.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/2/16)

As long as it has never been frozen, then it should be ok.

Yeast is more robust that brewers think.

As Manticle, dont skip on any process ESPECIALLY sanitation


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## Goose (10/2/16)

where there is life there is hope, cheers fellas

guess I will find out if there was a cell of life in that pack in a few days. sanitation wise, yep boiled the wort for 10 mins and rapid cooled in an icebath, vial was starsaned at receommended concentration for 10 mins, scissors used to snip soaked starsan prior, packet was srayed also with copius starsan, as was funnel used to guide in the wort and yeast. And of course the stirrer bean... soaked in starsan prior.

so that done, I'm challenged a bit with the stepup calculations using http://www.captainbrew.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator given that my starting "viability" would be infinitesimal. (pretty staggered by the difference in Troester vs White formulas I might add.... :blink: , but thats a different subject).

Guess I will just have to judge the next step volume from an eyeball of the volume of slurry I can generate, if any from this first step, but if it looks reasonable I plan on 2l, then 5l. Targetting 800 billion cells for a 1.052 OG cool (10 deg C) lager pitch.

Any comments on suggested step ups welcome.


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## jibba02 (10/2/16)

I would start off with 1 litre of 1.040. If it doesn't look like your going to hit terminal gravity after 24hrs I'd probably ditch it. Better still, streak a plate and start from scratch.


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## Charst (10/2/16)

The degradation of cells would mean even if one got up it may be a petite mutant that's not real article as far as I understand it. So may not have the same characteristics as Xxxxx population built from a fresh smack.


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/2/16)

jibba02 said:


> I would start off with 1 litre of 1.040. If it doesn't look like your going to hit terminal gravity after 24hrs I'd probably ditch it. Better still, streak a plate and start from scratch.


I have had better success with an SG of 1020 as it wont produce as much alcohol as a 1040 starter


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## jibba02 (11/2/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I have had better success with an SG of 1020 as it wont produce as much alcohol as a 1040 starter


Was thinking the same. But figured it it can't ferment out 1 liter of 1.040 it really should be chucked.


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## TSMill (11/2/16)

It will ferment it out, but given you are probably starting from a low cell count, best to both minimize the stress the test is under (low gravity) and the time to ferment out which increases infection risk (small volume)


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## pablo_h (11/2/16)

For my first brew this year (since 2011), I wanted to use a wyeast bavarian yeast I had kept in the fridge since 2009.
Smacked it, no packet swelling at all. Made a starter and very little carbonation/co2 so I chucked it.


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## Goose (14/2/16)

update

I almost gave up on this until I woke up this morning to see the starter was milky white and foaming... strange though, the day before it looked like not much activity. I suppose took its time, as expected given its age.

lets hope what I have cultivated in there is the original yeast strain. 

I plan to refrigerate and let the yeast settle, decant then pitch atop 3 litres of fresh wort and see how.


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## ben_sa (14/2/16)

I have 2 vials of whitelabs that were sitting in the bottom of my fridge since 2013... you have given me some hope hahaha


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## Goose (15/2/16)

ben_sa said:


> I have 2 vials of whitelabs that were sitting in the bottom of my fridge since 2013... you have given me some hope hahaha


only costs you a bit of dme or retained wort from prior brew to give it a try


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## Goose (15/2/16)

just stepped up to 3 litres after refrigerating then allowing it to come up to fresh wort temperature overnight.

the yeast had compacted tightly on the bottom after refrigeration, fwiw.

however in tasting the spent wort, some seeds of doubt emerged. While lousy tasting (they usually are) I could detect what I thought was a slight phenolic smell / taste which is not want I wanted to find.... however i have detected hints of this before in some starters I have made and its turned out fine. So i shall persevere.

does anybody have any experience on spend wort taste of starters vs performance ?


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## Goose (18/2/16)

happy to talk to myself for the record 

step up 2 finished pretty quickly, must admit I thought it was a gonner because of the slight phenolic smell, but the spent liquor from this stage was fine. Drinkable actually, better if it had some hops of course. I was quite surprised to say the least.

so decided to proceed to stage 3. another 3 litre step based on following calculation basis:


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## Goose (22/2/16)

... and since pitched final stepup into a recipe recommended by Prof Bribie G as a Corona ripoff, which was 80% pilsner malt, 20% rice and a 60 min boil with Galena hops to 18 IBU. Simple but should be a good test for this yeast (American Lager).

I have never brewed with rice before so this was a bit of fun.

After cooking up 2 kg of washed white rice and dumping it in the mash I noticed the wort in my RIMS looking quite cloudy after 30 mins which to me is unusual because its usually looking very clear after 15 mins, so decided to mash for 90 mins, 1 hour at 63, 15 mins at 64 and rest at 65 deg C. It had cleared reasonably by then but still not to the degree of a 100% barley malt mash. 

Fwiw, I was a bit concerned after I had finished the sparge to see what looked like whole rice grains interspersed in the spent mash, because I had read some reports that they disappeared completely in the mash. Nonetheless, when I handled them they had no substance like a normal cooked rice grain, just a like a soft bit of fluff, perhaps it was just some kind of husk so hopefully the enzymes chewed up enough of the starch in the grain. I also hit my target pre boil OG of 1.040, to my surprise and relief.

Pitched the yeast at around 11 deg C and its taken off pretty fast judging from blowoff tube activity. 

Hopefully in a few weeks I'll have a Corona ripoff to swill.


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