# Recipedb - Coopers Pale Ale Clone



## AndrewQLD

Coopers Pale Ale Clone  Ale - English Pale Ale  All Grain               18 Votes        Brewer's Notes This recipe was calculated from the 'whiteboard photo' taken at the Coopers brewery and published in 'Amber and Black'.Mash @ 65° for 60 minute and sparge as per usual. The sugar is essential to this recipe as is the small amount of dark crystal malt. use cultured Coopers Ale yeast.PLEASE CHECK THE "DISCUSS RECIPE" THREAD FOR THE LATEST "NO SUGAR VERSION"   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      3.5 kg JWM Export Pilsner    0.2 kg JWM Wheat Malt    0.03 kg JWM Dark Crystal     0.65 kg Cane Sugar       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      28 g Pride of Ringwood (Pellet, 9.0AA%, 60mins)       Yeast     1000 ml Coopers - Cooper Ale       Misc     1 tablet Whirfloc         23L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.049 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.012 (calc)   Bitterness 28.2 IBU   Efficiency 75%   Alcohol 4.81%   Colour 7 EBC   Batch Size 23L     Fermentation   Primary 7 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 2 days           







View attachment coopers.bsm


View attachment Coopers_All_Grain.bsm


View attachment CPA_with_sugar.pdf


View attachment Coopers_All_grain.pdf


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## Hutch

Great recipe this one, and very simple way to make a great Aussie style ale.
As the recipe suggests, use the recultured Coopers Ale yeast, and POR flowers for best results (POR pellets are no where near as clean).


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## mikelinz

Interesting because i understand that Coopers maintain that they do not use sugar in the wort, but do add it to the bottle 

rgds mike


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## AndrewQLD

mikelinz said:


> Interesting because i understand that Coopers maintain that they do not use sugar in the wort, but do add it to the bottle
> 
> rgds mike




Most of the research I have done shows Coopers use up to 20% sugar in their CPA, Roger Protz in "The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Beer" states 18% of sugar.

This form the Coopers product description page:



> Beer
> Coopers Beer Products
> Coopers Brewery produce a range of Ales,Stouts and Lagers.
> 
> Our ale range is brewed by a method of top fermentation, originating in the Middle Ages. Coopers uses only natural ingredients including malt, hops, sugar, water and a special yeast strain that's over 90 years old. Coopers do not use preservatives or chemicals in their ale range.
> 
> Coopers also produce Stout and Lager beers. The Lager beers are bottom fermented in cooler conditions, matured for a short period and pasteurised



They also make a point for only one of their products not using sugar.



> Coopers Premium Lager
> Coopers Premium Lager is quite different to the famous Coopers ales. This lager produces a refreshing flavour with a good balance of malt and hop characters and is brewed using no sugar. With its subtle fruity esters and light golden colour, combined with a judicious blend of Pride of Ringwood and Saaz hops. This produces a Lager with a crisp malty full flavour.
> 
> Alc/Vol 5.0%



And going by the recipe board if they weren't using sugar the attenuation rate would be unbelievable, don't forget this beer needs to drop to 1.005 post fermentation.

I should add that I have not heard from the brewers mouth that Coopers use sugar in their CPA but a lot of evidence seems to point that way.


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## Snow

Hmm...interesting comments above. To add to the debate, I went back through my Pale Ale recipe info and found the following comments I copied from a long ago AHB discussion on this style. They are quoted from someone known as "Colin", who I suspect might be Colin Weaver:

"....today I turned my attention to a subject dear to my heart - cloning of the four main Coopers ales, based on the now famous "whiteboard shot".

The "whiteboard shot" is a photo in a book called Amber & Black by Australian beer & food writer Willie Simpson (who writes for The Age and The
Sydney Morning Herald). This photo, taken at the Coopers Brewery, contains the grain bill compositions for all the Coopers beers. Its contents were as
follows:

DB 5100 pale malt, 80 crystal
export 6200 pale, 240 wheat
pale ale 4600 pale, 40 crystal, 200 wheat
premium 5500 pale, 60 crystal (listed as 'medium'), 280 wheat
dark ale 4650 pale, 200 wheat, 200 black
ale 5900 pale, 40 crystal, 240 wheat
stout 5000 pale, 440 wheat, 600 black
vintage 6200 pale, 60 crystal (medium), 350 wheat

The "medium" malt is apparently a very dark crystal, almost a chocolate malt. Possibly the very dark Joe White crystal is close, or a pale chocolate malt?

The Coopers beers are known to use 15% liquid cane sugar as a percentage of fermentables, invert syrup is perfect for this or just use cane sugar or
dextrose...."

As you can see, the "whiteboard shot" doesn't seem to have included any reference to sugar used in the recipe, however it is generally assumed by brewers that they do indeed use sugar in the Pale ale and the Sparkling ale. I have brewed the pale ale on a number of occasions and have found that the following recipe best approximates CPA as much as I could with a partial mash:

Batch Volume: 23L
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.010
IBUs: 28

3.2kg Powells Pilsener Malt
50g Medium crystal
180g Powells Wheat malt
400g sugar - 10 mins
500g DME - 10 mins
32g Pride of Ringwood Pellets (10%AA) - 60 mins
1.5g Epsom salt - in mash
2g gypsum - in mash
1tsp table salt - in mash
1 pinch sodium met - in mash
1tsp Irish moss - 10 mins
1 tsp yeast nutrient - 10 mins
slurry from 2L starter of Coopers yeast from 1 bottle of Coopers Pale Ale, stepped up 3 times.

Mashed in 10L at 68c for 105 mins. Sparged with 10L at 75c, for a 19L boil volume. 60 min boil to schedule. Topped up to 23L. Pitched yeast at 16c, raised to 19c overnight, then brought up to 20c and fermented for 7 days (Hit 22c on day 2). Dropped back down to 19c on day 4. Racked to secondary after 7 days in primary and cold conditioned for 2 weeks before kegging.

This beer won 2nd place with a bronze medal at ANAWBS 2006. I compared it side by side with CPA and they tasted exactly the same to my friends' and my tastebuds, except that mine tasted "fresher" and had a slightly fuller mouthfeel (obviously due to the high mash temp which can be easily fixed next time).

Cheers - Snow


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## Adamt

From about the time (a few months ago) when there was an article floating around about "Coopers entering the premium beer market", CPA no longer contains a sugar addition. CSA and stout still do, though.


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## cliffo

Hi All,

Am planning to make a clone shortly.

By "sugar", are we talking dextrose or regular white sugar?

cheers,
cliffo


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## AndrewQLD

cliffo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Am planning to make a clone shortly.
> 
> By "sugar", are we talking dextrose or regular white sugar?
> 
> cheers,
> cliffo



Regular white sugar is fine.

Andrew


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## lowtech

Adamt said:


> From about the time (a few months ago) when there was an article floating around about "Coopers entering the premium beer market", CPA no longer contains a sugar addition. CSA and stout still do, though.



Do you have, or could you post a link to this article?

Without it ,it's just apocryphal

Edit* I went to the obvious spot, but couldn't find anything.Surely if it were something to crow about it would have been amongst their press releases.


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## cliffo

AndrewQLD said:


> Regular white sugar is fine.
> 
> Andrew



Thanks.

Now to raid the kitchen pantry


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## Adamt

Link to article.


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## geoffi

I saw nothing in there about sugar.


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## Adamt

I said...

"From about the time (a few months ago) when there was an article floating around about "Coopers entering the premium beer market", CPA no longer contains a sugar addition. CSA and stout still do, though"

In other words, about the date of the article, they stopped putting sugar in. 

I never said the article had anything about it in there.


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## lowtech

Adamt said:


> Link to article.



Cheers, I read the article, but it doesn't mention or add any weight to your claim that PA has changed recipe recently to exclude sugar.
A thorough search of their website mentions only lager and mild as being sucrose free.
*Where have you sourced your info?*


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## lowtech

Adamt said:


> I never said the article had anything about it in there.



That was the inference, from my (obviously skewed) interpretation.


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## Adamt

From the people that control what goes in the beer


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## lowtech

Adamt said:


> From the people that control what goes in the beer



Inside info ay?  .

I'll have to try one again soon to see if there's a discernible difference.

That would account for it's recent price hike,as grains gotta be dearer than sugar.

Still surprised they havn't been crowing about it as a marketing drive.

L.T


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## AndrewQLD

Looks like Adamt was spot on in reference to the sugar not being a part of the CPA recipe, Braufrau spoke to a representative of Coopers who confirmed that CPA has no sugar in the grist and CSA has up to 5%.
From this thread


> Re the sugar: Original Pale Ale is an all-malt brew, apart from priming
> sugar, which is liquid invert sugar (sucrose) and Sparkling Ale can have up
> to 5% sugar in the wort at times, depending on the quality of the malt.
> Nothing like the 30 - 40% sugar that goes into some of the mainstream lager
> beers in Australia.
> 
> Cheers, Frank.


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## Pumpy

I have made 80 litres of this beer and I cant get enough of it ,really is a great beer @ 22 cent a middie !!

Pride of Ringwood flowers  

20 litres using the British Ale yeast 
20 litres using the US 05 yeast 
20 litres using the Coopers yeast
20 litres not fermented yet 

why bother making anything else !!

Oh it is for an upcoming party .

Pumpy


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## Frenzel

Pumpy said:


> I have made 80 litres of this beer and I cant get enough of it ,really is a great beer @ 22 cent a middie !!
> 
> Pride of Ringwood flowers
> 
> 20 litres using the British Ale yeast
> 20 litres using the US 05 yeast
> 20 litres using the Coopers yeast
> 20 litres not fermented yet
> 
> why bother making anything else !!
> 
> Oh it is for an upcoming party .
> 
> Pumpy




Pumpy im thinking of making this next what recipe did you use?
does it include the sugar?

cheers Frenzel


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## Pumpy

Frenzel said:


> Pumpy im thinking of making this next what recipe did you use?
> does it include the sugar?
> 
> cheers Frenzel



Frenzel,

The recipe was given to me but looks same as Andrew Qld .

Yes I did use the 'Raw sugar' ( its a pale brown colour less refined than the white ) its $1.65 for @kg at WW or Coles . I rarely use sugar these days but it worked great in this recipe .seriously thinking of incorporating a bit of sugar in other recipes .

I am presently evaluating a few different yeasts .

it is so easy to make and excellent value too . 

This beer is a great 'House beer '

OBM AUssie beer 

Batch Size: 40.00 L

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.00 kg Weyermann Pilsner (3.9 EBC) Grain 82.06 % 
0.35 kg JWM Wheat Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.08 % 
0.05 kg JWM Dark Crystal (220.6 EBC) Grain 0.61 % 
50.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 30.1 IBU 
1.13 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 13.25 % 
1 Pkgs Safale US Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale 

NB. I used the Whitelabs British Ale yeast it akway seems to get the gravity down to 1.005 , I love it 

but I have other batches with the US05 & Coopers yeast underway


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## tdh

Does anyone have a commercial CPAon hand?
Is the FG still at ~1.003?
If they don't use sugar then maybe they use a 'natural' enzyme to get the FG down that low.

tdh


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## geoffi

tdh said:


> Does anyone have a commercial CPAon hand?
> Is the FG still at ~1.003?
> If they don't use sugar then maybe they use a 'natural' enzyme to get the FG down that low.
> 
> tdh




Yes, that is a wicked FG for an 'all-grain' beer...even with a super-low mash temp it would be quite an achievement to get it that dry.

Maybe 'all-grain' includes grains of sugar...


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## tdh

lol

tdh


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## hoohaaman

Tried the whiteboard recipe about a month ago,couldn't get por flowers so subbed super pride.Mashed @ 65c come pretty close.Recultured from cpa stubbies brewed at 18c,thought it a touch more floral,less bread but even throughout.

Will sure brew again,but with por flowers.


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## buttersd70

Guys. Seriously. Dudes. Have a read of braufraus correspondence with coopers in regards to sugar, as per the links in the first post. Thats one smart lady there. Whilst all the blokes here are quibling about whats in it or not in it, what does she do? F'n asks the brewer.Simple.

_Invert _is the keyword.Invert. One word, so much difference. Invert. say it with me. Invert. A mixture of 2 medium chain monosachirides as opposed to a single unbroken long chain disacharide that causes the yeast to produce the enzyme fucto-wotsit (larger name, but am half cut. See my prior rants on the evils of sucrose.). If I want cider, I'll buy some scrumpy jacks. If I want beer, I will not use sugars other than monosachyrides.


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## blackbock

buttersd70 said:


> Guys. Seriously. Dudes. Have a read of braufraus correspondence with coopers in regards to sugar, as per the links in the first post. Thats one smart lady there. Whilst all the blokes here are quibling about whats in it or not in it, what does she do? F'n asks the brewer.Simple.
> 
> _Invert _is the keyword.Invert. One word, so much difference. Invert. say it with me. Invert. A mixture of 2 medium chain monosachirides as opposed to a single unbroken long chain disacharide that causes the yeast to produce the enzyme fucto-wotsit (larger name, but am half cut. See my prior rants on the evils of sucrose.). If I want cider, I'll buy some scrumpy jacks. If I want beer, I will not use sugars other than monosachyrides.



I doubt using plain old sugar for priming in place of liquid invert sucrose would make any difference as you claim Butters. Probably the only reason they use the liquid at Coopers is for undustrial convenience.


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## buttersd70

Maybe, maybe not make a difference to taste in the prime.....but some are using it (non invert) at a rate of 18%. Thats more what I was getting at.


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## sama

As ive not added sugar to an AG before,for this recipe, when does the sugar go into the boil? Thanx


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## hoohaaman

Hi sama,I added it late,last 15 minutes of boil.If that helps.

Og was 1.048 Fg was 1.008.Yeast recultured from pale ale stubbies.Brewed @ 18 c.I have slants for future use.Will brew it again,but not an overpowering favourite beer.Commercially or craft brewed.

Cheers


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## samhighley

I've just brewed this recipe as my second all-grain:



Code:


Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Batch Size: 22.00 L	  

Boil Size: 29.79 L

Estimated OG: 1.054 SG

Estimated Color: 9.2 EBC

Estimated IBU: 27.3 IBU

Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %

Boil Time: 60 Minutes



Ingredients:

------------

Amount		Item									  Type		 % or IBU	  

3.50 kg	   Premium Pilsner (Weyermann) (2.5 EBC)	 Grain		66.67 %	   

0.70 kg	   Joe White Export Pilsner (3.2 EBC)		Grain		13.33 %	   

0.20 kg	   Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (4.2 EBC)	Grain		3.81 %		

0.10 kg	   Carafoam (Carapils) (5.0 EBC)			 Grain		1.90 %		

0.05 kg	   Crystal Malt Medium (Bairds) (145.0 EBC)  Grain		0.95 %		

0.05 kg	   Crystal Malt Pale (118.2 EBC)			 Grain		0.95 %		

15.00 gm	  Galena (CB 06) [12.70 %]  (60 min)		Hops		 22.6 IBU	  

8.00 gm	   Pride of Ringwood (CB 07) [8.80 %]Hops		 3.0 IBU	   

8.00 gm	   Pride of Ringwood (CB 07) [8.80 %]Hops		 1.7 IBU	   

0.50 tsp	  KoppaFloc (Boil 10.0 min)				 Misc					   

1.00 tbsp	 PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min)		 Misc					   

1.00 tsp	  Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min)			Misc					   

0.65 kg	   Raw sugar (3.0 EBC)					   Sugar		12.38 %	   

1 Pkgs		Coopers Pale Ale bottle yeast (Coopers) [SYeast-Ale				  





Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge

Total Grain Weight: 4.60 kg

----------------------------

Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge

Step Time	 Name			   Description						 Step Temp	 

60 min		Mash In			Add 18.40 L of water at 71.3 C	  65.0 C


I followed someones suggestion to use a neutral bittering hop rather than POR pellets for the bittering.

The end result is very drinkable, but there are things i'd like to improve for the next version:


The alcohol tastes a bit 'hot'. I'm going to put this down to the raw sugar creating fusel alcohol. I'll use less (or none) next time around. It was fermented in a brew fridge at 18C, so I don't think temperature is the issue here.
The bitterness could be upped a bit
Use POR flowers next time (on order from BeerBelly)


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## The King of Spain

Pumpy said:


> I have made 80 litres of this beer and I cant get enough of it ,really is a great beer @ 22 cent a middie !!
> 
> Pride of Ringwood flowers
> 
> 20 litres using the British Ale yeast
> 20 litres using the US 05 yeast
> 20 litres using the Coopers yeast
> 20 litres not fermented yet
> 
> why bother making anything else !!
> 
> Oh it is for an upcoming party .
> 
> Pumpy




The British ale yeast does it for me. One in the fermenter and one drinking.


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## samhighley

I'd love to try this brewed with a different yeast, but I doubt i'll do it myself because personally I think the Coopers yeast is critical to the style.

Anyone wanna do a bottle swap when i've got my recipe nailed?

Also, looking back at the recipe, and my under-estimated efficiency, this has ended up at around 6% alcohol (OG 55, FG 9), which is almost 50% more than it should be for style. That could account for the alcohol flavour as well 

Sam


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## dicko

Sammy said:


> I'd love to try this brewed with a different yeast, but I doubt i'll do it myself because personally I think the Coopers yeast is critical to the style.
> 
> Anyone wanna do a bottle swap when i've got my recipe nailed?
> 
> Also, looking back at the recipe, and my under-estimated efficiency, this has ended up at around 6% alcohol (OG 55, FG 9), which is almost 50% more than it should be for style. That could account for the alcohol flavour as well
> 
> Sam



Hi Sammy,

I used a 1056 when the coopers starter turned a tad funky and it was a very ordinary beer.
Like a lot of beers and styles - you must use the correct yeast to achieve the correct result.

Cheers


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## AndrewQLD

dicko said:


> Hi Sammy,
> 
> I used a 1056 when the coopers starter turned a tad funky and it was a very ordinary beer.
> Like a lot of beers and styles - you must use the correct yeast to achieve the correct result.
> 
> Cheers



I agree with Dicko, I have made this brew several times with White labs dry english ale yeast and while the beer was very clean and good to knock back fast on a thirsty day it lacked the esters and bready flavours the original yeast imparts. If you want to brew a beer close to the original CPA don't use a different yeast, you'll be disappointed.

Andrew


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## itmechanic

Hi All

Can someone help me with this recipe, i want to do it as my first AG but am unsure about water quantities, how much water will i need for mashing and sparging, what will the boil volume be? 

Cheers


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## AndrewQLD

itmechanic said:


> Hi All
> 
> Can someone help me with this recipe, i want to do it as my first AG but am unsure about water quantities, how much water will i need for mashing and sparging, what will the boil volume be?
> 
> Cheers




Water quantities can vary dependant on your equipement.
If you have BeerSmith I can email you my brewsheet, if not I will convert to PDF and email you that. Pm me your email address and what file you want, that will give you a good idea of what quantities to work from.

Cheers
Andrew


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## fergi

i really think that the secret to a really good coopers pale is to use the recultered yeast, andrew qld also has this opinion on making a style of beer you really need to use the correct yeast,i usually make all my coopers pales with the coopers yeast but the last one i tried us05 yeast and while it is a nice beer it doesnt have that floral aroma/taste that the recultured yeast seems to have, you also have to keep the temp right down to no more than 18 deg, i let one of my brews get away up to 20 deg for a couple of days and while still nice lacked the flavor of the coopers that i was after.
cheers
fergi


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## Wolfy

buttersd70 said:


> Maybe, maybe not make a difference to taste in the prime.....but some are using it (non invert) at a rate of 18%. Thats more what I was getting at.


Since Wikipedia suggests that invert sugar is easily made by boiling sugar (with a small amount of acids or enzymes), could one not argue adding the non-invert sugar to the boil 15-20 mins (as most here have suggested) actually results in the creation of invert sugar which is then what goes into the fermenter?


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## NeilArge

Apologies in advance if this is hijacking the thread :unsure: but I'm going to try a Cooper's Sparkling Ale clone in the next day or so (have the yeast starter bubbling away at the mo, cultured from a fresh bottle of CSA) and wanted some opinions on it. Unfortunately, I don't have POR flowers, just fresh Super Pride pellets and some old POR pellets that I will use as a mash or FW hop.



> Recipe: Dumaresq Sparkling Ale
> Brewer: Neil Asst Brewer: Style: American Pale Ale
> Recipe Specifications --------------------------
> Batch Size: 24.00 L Boil Size: 28.90 L
> Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
> Estimated Color: 11.6 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 39.9 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
> Boil Time: 90 Minutes
> Ingredients: ------------ Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 4.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 87.91 %
> 0.20 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.40 %
> 0.15 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 3.30 %
> 10.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00 %] (90 min) (MashHops 2.0 IBU
> 18.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [15.10 %] (60 min) Hops 28.3 IBU
> 10.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [15.10 %] (20 min) Hops 9.5 IBU
> 0.20 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 4.40 %
> 1 Pkgs Cooper Ale (Coopers #-) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale
> Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
> Total Grain Weight: 4.35 kg ----------------------------
> Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
> Step Temp 90 min Mash In Add 13.05 L of water at 69.3 C 64.0 C



Views?

Regards

ToG


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## mje1980

That looks like a lot of IBUs for sparkling. Im no expert though, but with high bitterness and a lowish final gravity, it might overpower???


Anyone used nottingham in a CPA style ale??
I recently did a CPA style ale, not exactly a copy, but only a 60 min addition, a bees dick of crystal, and about 5% wheat, with the coopers yeast. It isn't the most flavourful beer, but it is very nice, and a good house beer, but im thinking of trying it with nottingham. Obviously, it wont be the same, but im curious if anyone has done it????


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## AndrewQLD

mje1980 said:


> That looks like a lot of IBUs for sparkling. Im no expert though, but with high bitterness and a lowish final gravity, it might overpower???
> 
> 
> Anyone used nottingham in a CPA style ale??
> I recently did a CPA style ale, not exactly a copy, but only a 60 min addition, a bees dick of crystal, and about 5% wheat, with the coopers yeast. It isn't the most flavourful beer, but it is very nice, and a good house beer, but im thinking of trying it with nottingham. Obviously, it wont be the same, but im curious if anyone has done it????



I've made the CPA with Nottingham a few times (my wife likes it) but it's not really a true CPA style of beer. It lacked the fruity esters that you get with the original yeast and while it was very drinkable it had no depth of flavour, and it was crystal clear. 

If your looking to get close to a Coopers Clone you need to use the recultured Coopers yeast.

Andrew


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## Hutch

TunofGrunt said:


> Unfortunately, I don't have POR flowers, just fresh Super Pride pellets and some old POR pellets that I will use as a mash or FW hop.


Only advice I'd give is to ditch the old POR pellets. Mash-hopping won't contribute any IBUs, and old pellets don't have the flavour/aroma to warrant their use. Stick with the Super pride all at 60minutes (to about 26IBU's), and let the yeast do the talking :lol: 

Hutch.


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## BoilerBoy

TunofGrunt said:


> Apologies in advance if this is hijacking the thread :unsure: but I'm going to try a Cooper's Sparkling Ale clone in the next day or so (have the yeast starter bubbling away at the mo, cultured from a fresh bottle of CSA) and wanted some opinions on it. Unfortunately, I don't have POR flowers, just fresh Super Pride pellets and some old POR pellets that I will use as a mash or FW hop.
> 
> 
> 
> Views?
> 
> Regards
> 
> ToG



Also IMHO add another 200g of wheat to your grain bill giving it a SG of 1.050 and you should get an FG around 1.008-1.010.
which would give you 5.2-5.5% alc /vol (CSA is 5.8%)

I have used Super Pride in an Aussie pale with FWH & 20min additions and it worked very well, If you did 10g of Super pride at FWH & 20min you would get according to my Promash calcs 27.8IBU, you wouldn't want to go much higher really.

Good luck with it cheers,
BB


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## NeilArge

Hutch said:


> Only advice I'd give is to ditch the old POR pellets. Mash-hopping won't contribute any IBUs, and old pellets don't have the flavour/aroma to warrant their use. Stick with the Super pride all at 60minutes (to about 26IBU's), and let the yeast do the talking :lol:
> 
> Hutch.



Thanks Hutch. Much appreciated.

ToG


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## NeilArge

BoilerBoy said:


> Also IMHO add another 200g of wheat to your grain bill giving it a SG of 1.050 and you should get an FG around 1.008-1.010.
> which would give you 5.2-5.5% alc /vol (CSA is 5.8%)
> 
> I have used Super Pride in an Aussie pale with FWH & 20min additions and it worked very well, If you did 10g of Super pride at FWH & 20min you would get according to my Promash calcs 27.8IBU, you wouldn't want to go much higher really.
> 
> Good luck with it cheers,
> BB



Also excellent advice BB. So would you go with a 60 min. addition as well or just those two?

Cheers

ToG


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## BoilerBoy

TunofGrunt said:


> Also excellent advice BB. So would you go with a 60 min. addition as well or just those two?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ToG



Leave out the 60 min addition,

BB


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## NeilArge

BoilerBoy said:


> Also IMHO add another 200g of wheat to your grain bill giving it a SG of 1.050 and you should get an FG around 1.008-1.010.
> which would give you 5.2-5.5% alc /vol (CSA is 5.8%)
> 
> I have used Super Pride in an Aussie pale with FWH & 20min additions and it worked very well, If you did 10g of Super pride at FWH & 20min you would get according to my Promash calcs 27.8IBU, you wouldn't want to go much higher really.
> 
> Good luck with it cheers,
> BB



BB

I might just be down a bit on wheat malt (probably got c. 200gms) but I do have quite a bit of torrified wheat. Would you recommend subbing some of that for the wheat malt?

Cheers

ToG


----------



## BoilerBoy

TunofGrunt said:


> BB
> 
> I might just be down a bit on wheat malt (probably got c. 200gms) but I do have quite a bit of torrified wheat. Would you recommend subbing some of that for the wheat malt?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ToG



That would be fine.

BB


----------



## Wolfy

After spending 4.5 days in the primary I just just transferred this CPA Clone to secondary and now (_better_) understand the comments about fruity esters/banana flavors when using CPA re-cultured yeast. Fermentation temp was 18-19deg, so its not overpowering but it is noticeable in the hydrometer sample - seems quite nice actually. 

While the OG was pretty much spot on at 1.048 it's already down to 1.008, which is more attenuation (_in only 4.5 days_) than I expected it would finish at.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Wolfy said:


> After spending 4.5 days in the primary I just just transferred this CPA Clone to secondary and now (_better_) understand the comments about fruity esters/banana flavors when using CPA re-cultured yeast. Fermentation temp was 18-19deg, so its not overpowering but it is noticeable in the hydrometer sample - seems quite nice actually.
> 
> While the OG was pretty much spot on at 1.048 it's already down to 1.008, which is more attenuation (_in only 4.5 days_) than I expected it would finish at.




Sounds good to me Wolfy, if you can drop a few more points off the FG you'll have a pearler on your hands. The Esters will mellow out as fermentation finishes.
Please tell us how it turns out.

Andrew


----------



## Hutch

My latest incarnation of this drop is an absolute ripper, worthy enough to add a few notes to this discussion...

_ 4.5kg Powels Pils
0.2kg Wheat
0.05kg JW Dark Crystal
35gm Northdown pellets (60min boil, 26IBU)
Single infusion mash at 62deg
6gm Gypsum (50ppm)
OG - 1.044
FG - 1.006
Coopers recultured yeast (2Ltr starter)_

I brewed the recipe above as a simple test of some new AG equipment, not really expecting great results....No-chilled, and fermented out in 3 days at 18deg, CC'd for a few days then force-carbed. It is drinking superbly at only 9 days grain to brain, which is astonishing! The usual subtle banana and bready character, dry and crisp, very smooth bitterness, low hop aroma.

Hops
I didn't have any POR on hand, but instead used up some old Northdown (bittering addition only). In future I won't be so pedantic about insisting on POR, as the main character really comes from the yeast. Unless you can get fresh POR flowers, I think it is preferable to use a neutral bittering hop than risk using old POR (which I have done in the past, with poor results).

Malt
Powels pils is very cheap, and notoriously under-modified, so no surprises I got about 60% efficiency into the fermenter with a single-infusion mash. Big deal - 4.5kg malt cost me $9 - total cost about $13 for 23Ltrs, by far my cheapest AG to date - cheaper than a can of goop!

Sugar
After a lengthy discussion with Tony Wheeler (Pale Ale guru) at ANHC, I decided to drop the sugar (as has been discussed above) and use a low mash temp instead in order to acheive the low FG. I was sceptical, but bugger me - it worked. He also suggested a good dose of gypsum to get in the range 50-100ppm Ca.

Yeast
The recultured Coopers yeast is obviously the key to this recipe. I built up a nice big 2Ltr starter from a couple of CPA stubbies, which took about 48 hours on a stir-plate. This yeast is hungry, and wanted to climb out the top of the fermenter. Combined with a low mash temp, apparent attenuation was very high (about 86%), with no sugar required.

...such a simple, fast turnaraound keg-filler. 
Now, what other AG equipment do I need to test?


----------



## rosswill

I also put one of these ones down on the weekend. I used:
4kg JW pilsner
250g wheat malt
50g light crystal (had no dark)
500g rice.
30g POR for 60 mins
Recultured CPA yeast from 2 stubbies

I have listened to all the 'no sugar' arguments and went without. Instead I added the rice, which was boiled for 20 minutes and added to the mash. To me, all malt would taste great, but would be more malty than the original. Time will tell. Mashed at 65 degrees for 75 minutes.
Got an OG of 1045, which should give me my target of around 4.5% ABV.
Currently in primary at 16 degrees. Gee that yeast has a good fermenting range.
Will report back on the results in a couple of weeks.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Hutch said:


> My latest incarnation of this drop is an absolute ripper, worthy enough to add a few notes to this discussion...
> 
> _4.5kg Powels Pils
> 0.2kg Wheat
> 0.05kg JW Dark Crystal
> 35gm Northdown pellets (60min boil, 26IBU)
> Single infusion mash at 62deg
> 6gm Gypsum (50ppm)
> OG - 1.044
> FG - 1.006
> Coopers recultured yeast (2Ltr starter)_
> 
> I brewed the recipe above as a simple test of some new AG equipment, not really expecting great results....No-chilled, and fermented out in 3 days at 18deg, CC'd for a few days then force-carbed. It is drinking superbly at only 9 days grain to brain, which is astonishing! The usual subtle banana and bready character, dry and crisp, very smooth bitterness, low hop aroma.
> 
> Hops
> I didn't have any POR on hand, but instead used up some old Northdown (bittering addition only). In future I won't be so pedantic about insisting on POR, as the main character really comes from the yeast. Unless you can get fresh POR flowers, I think it is preferable to use a neutral bittering hop than risk using old POR (which I have done in the past, with poor results).
> 
> Malt
> Powels pils is very cheap, and notoriously under-modified, so no surprises I got about 60% efficiency into the fermenter with a single-infusion mash. Big deal - 4.5kg malt cost me $9 - total cost about $13 for 23Ltrs, by far my cheapest AG to date - cheaper than a can of goop!
> 
> Sugar
> After a lengthy discussion with Tony Wheeler (Pale Ale guru) at ANHC, I decided to drop the sugar (as has been discussed above) and use a low mash temp instead in order to acheive the low FG. I was sceptical, but bugger me - it worked. He also suggested a good dose of gypsum to get in the range 50-100ppm Ca.
> 
> Yeast
> The recultured Coopers yeast is obviously the key to this recipe. I built up a nice big 2Ltr starter from a couple of CPA stubbies, which took about 48 hours on a stir-plate. This yeast is hungry, and wanted to climb out the top of the fermenter. Combined with a low mash temp, apparent attenuation was very high (about 86%), with no sugar required.
> 
> ...such a simple, fast turnaraound keg-filler.
> Now, what other AG equipment do I need to test?



Looks good Hutch, the Coopers yeast is an aggressive little monster, I will hopefuly be making a my CPA this weekend without the sugar and will be reducing my SG accordingly to keep the alcohol within limits.

Like you I plan to mash low and add some water additions to get the gravity down, I've been more than happy with my CPA using sugar but I am more than willing to try without it and I'll report my results as well. I think you might be right about the hops too, but I just can't bring myself to sub the POR.

Andrew


----------



## TidalPete

AndrewQLD said:


> Looks good Hutch, the Coopers yeast is an aggressive little monster, I will hopefuly be making a my CPA this weekend without the sugar and will be reducing my SG accordingly to keep the alcohol within limits.
> 
> Like you I plan to mash low and add some water additions to get the gravity down, I've been more than happy with my CPA using sugar but I am more than willing to try without it and I'll report my results as well. I think you might be right about the hops too, but I just can't bring myself to sub the POR.
> 
> Andrew



Andrew,

If you haven't already you must really try the Super Pride even though it may(?) negate your efforts to create a true CPA clone.

TP


----------



## Hutch

TidalPete said:


> Andrew,
> 
> If you haven't already you must really try the Super Pride even though it may(?) negate your efforts to create a true CPA clone.
> 
> TP


TP, 
This had been my plan as well, but my Craftbrewer parcel arrived without the Super pride  
I wasn't expecting Northdown to be so neutral, even though it is regarded as a good all-round UK hop.
I'll definitely be trying the Super Pride next time though - might shave another $1 off the total cost.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Here's the latest version of my CPA without the sugar component, I've also adjusted my mash water with salt additions based on my local Bundaberg water report.
My aim is to get the FG down as low as I can, hopefully 1.004 - 1.006, I'm still sticking to the white board grain bill but I have upped the dark crystal malt addition to by 20g to 50g to get closer to the originals color.
Changed the mash schedule as well to get a little better attenuation I hope.

I've got a 1 lt Coopers Pale Ale starter bubbling away as I type that smells great and I'm wondering if I dare squeeze in a brewday on saturday before going away for our anniversary  
What's my chances :lol: 

View attachment Coopers_All_Grain.bsm


Style: Australian Pale Ale
Recipe: Coopers Clone Pale Ale TYPE: All Grain
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
Est SRM: 8.9 EBC SRM RANGE: 7.9-13.8 EBC
Est IBU: 26.6 IBU IBU RANGE: 25.0-40.0 IBU
Est OG: 1.043 SG OG RANGE: 1.035-1.048 SG
Est FG: 1.006 SG FG RANGE: 1.004-1.006 SG
Est BU:GU: 0.623 Calories: 393 cal/l Est ABV: 4.8 % 
EE%: 80.00 % Batch: 23.00 L Boil: 28.19 L BT: 60 Mins
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
1 Pkgs Coopers pale Ale Cultured [Starter 1000 mlYeast-Ale 

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
2g Calcium Chloride
2g Epsom Salts
3g gypsum.

-------Ingredients for Mashing--------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.75 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (4.0 EBC)Grain 93.75 % 
0.20 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.4 EBC) Grain 5.00 % 
0.03 kg Crystal Dark Bairds (240.0 EBC) Grain 1.25 % 

Total Grain Weight: 4.00 kg Total Hops: 28.00 oz.
---MASH PROCESS-----------------------------
Pilsner Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
5 min Mash In Add 16.00 L of water at 36.8 C 35.0 C 
15 min Protien Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min 52.0 C 
45 min Sacch Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C 
30 min Sach Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C 

---SPARGE PROCESS-----RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS !! 
Drain Mash Tun
Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 17.20 L of 78.0 C water

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.035 Est OG: 1.043 SG
Boil Ingredients
Boil Amount Item Type 
60 min 28.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops 
10 min 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
10 min 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 



EDIT: Replaced BSM File with the final version that reflects the crystal malt staying at 30g. And adjusted the above recipe the same.


----------



## tazman1967

Im going to do this....got a six pack starter going.
Harvested some POR of my own... GO Flower Power, 
tastes better than pellets IMHO
Cheers


----------



## Uncle Fester

Andrew,
I have been looking for some inspiration. I may give this one a lash with Canberra water and see what the beer fairy brings me. PM me with an address and I will send a sampler to you for your comparison.

Fester Out.


----------



## Hutch

:chug: Absolutely loving this one at the moment, and won't be happy when the keg blows froth.
A few inebriated thoughts...
* Dropping the sugar was a big plus IMHO - mashing low and pitching big gets the FG down low. 
* Only thing I'll probably change next time is to ferment even lower (perhaps 16-17deg) to get less banana.
* The Powels pils has really worked well - beautiful malt backbone (I guess it must be cheap because of its modification)

Andrew, Fester and Taz - let us know how yours all turn out .


----------



## AndrewQLD

Hutch said:


> :chug: Absolutely loving this one at the moment, and won't be happy when the keg blows froth.
> A few inebriated thoughts...
> * Dropping the sugar was a big plus IMHO - mashing low and pitching big gets the FG down low.
> * Only thing I'll probably change next time is to ferment even lower (perhaps 16-17deg) to get less banana.
> * The Powels pils has really worked well - beautiful malt backbone (I guess it must be cheap because of its modification)
> 
> Andrew, Fester and Taz - let us know how yours all turn out .



I think the Powells Ale malt would be well suited to this recipe, it does have a fantastic malt presence that would work well. I wish I could get Powells up here again it's great malt.
I haven't picked up Banana when fermenting with this yeast at 18, what temp did you ferment at?

Andrew


----------



## Batz

I'm drinking this one ATM,with the sugar addition,very nice indeed.

Batz


----------



## Adamt

Batz said:


> I'm drinking this one ATM,with the sugar addition,very nice indeed.
> 
> Batz



Nothing beats a morning pint.. See signature! :chug:


----------



## Hutch

AndrewQLD said:


> I think the Powells Ale malt would be well suited to this recipe, it does have a fantastic malt presence that would work well. I wish I could get Powells up here again it's great malt.
> I haven't picked up Banana when fermenting with this yeast at 18, what temp did you ferment at?
> 
> Andrew


I had the fridgemate set at 18 deg, which usually means it hovers around 19, (possibly higher being such a vigorous fermentation).
Not saying there's too much banana - I quite like it when you get it on tap sometimes. The bottled variety does seem to err a lot more towards bread than banana though.


----------



## AndrewQLD

AndrewQLD said:


> Here's the latest version of my CPA without the sugar component, I've also adjusted my mash water with salt additions based on my local Bundaberg water report.
> My aim is to get the FG down as low as I can, hopefully 1.004 - 1.006, I'm still sticking to the white board grain bill but I have upped the dark crystal malt addition to by 20g to 50g to get closer to the originals color.
> Changed the mash schedule as well to get a little better attenuation I hope.
> 
> I've got a 1 lt Coopers Pale Ale starter bubbling away as I type that smells great and I'm wondering if I dare squeeze in a brewday on saturday before going away for our anniversary
> What's my chances :lol:
> 
> View attachment 25697
> 
> 
> Style: Australian Pale Ale
> Recipe: Coopers Clone Pale Ale TYPE: All Grain
> ---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
> Est SRM: 8.9 EBC SRM RANGE: 7.9-13.8 EBC
> Est IBU: 26.6 IBU IBU RANGE: 25.0-40.0 IBU
> Est OG: 1.043 SG OG RANGE: 1.035-1.048 SG
> Est FG: 1.006 SG FG RANGE: 1.004-1.006 SG
> Est BU:GU: 0.623 Calories: 393 cal/l Est ABV: 4.8 %
> EE%: 80.00 % Batch: 23.00 L Boil: 28.19 L BT: 60 Mins
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1 Pkgs Coopers pale Ale Cultured [Starter 1000 mlYeast-Ale
> 
> ---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
> 2g Calcium Chloride
> 2g Epsom Salts
> 3g gypsum.
> 
> -------Ingredients for Mashing--------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 3.75 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (4.0 EBC)Grain 93.75 %
> 0.20 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.4 EBC) Grain 5.00 %
> 0.05 kg Crystal Dark Bairds (240.0 EBC) Grain 1.25 %
> 
> Total Grain Weight: 4.00 kg Total Hops: 28.00 oz.
> ---MASH PROCESS-----------------------------
> Pilsner Mash
> Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 5 min Mash In Add 16.00 L of water at 36.8 C 35.0 C
> 15 min Protien Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min 52.0 C
> 45 min Sacch Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C
> 30 min Sach Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C
> 
> ---SPARGE PROCESS-----RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS !!
> Drain Mash Tun
> Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 17.20 L of 78.0 C water
> 
> ---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
> Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.035 Est OG: 1.043 SG
> Boil Ingredients
> Boil Amount Item Type
> 60 min 28.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops
> 10 min 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 10 min 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc




Well it's done and dusted, fermented down to 1.006 although I had my doubts it would get there, fermentation was at 18 and like a volcano for the first 3 days then dropped back to a more sedate pace for the next 5 days. Tastes great out of secondary with a nice bready yeasty taste and a good dry finish.
I'll be kegging tonight and will give a report back in a couple of days.

Andrew


----------



## KHB

AndrewQLD said:


> Well it's done and dusted, fermented down to 1.006 although I had my doubts it would get there, fermentation was at 18 and like a volcano for the first 3 days then dropped back to a more sedate pace for the next 5 days. Tastes great out of secondary with a nice bready yeasty taste and a good dry finish.
> I'll be kegging tonight and will give a report back in a couple of days.
> 
> Andrew




Be good to hear how it finished, i am looking to make another one of these soon too.

KHB


----------



## AndrewQLD

Enjoyed this beer over the Easter break with my son, and it is very true to the original. Sadly the keg only lasted 2 days between three of us.
I will be cutting the crystal back to 30g (knew I shouldn't have changed it) as the colour was a little darker than the original, and that's the only fault I could pick.
Glad it fermented down to 1.006 as well, any higher and the malt would have been prominant.

All in all I am very happy with the all malt clone and will be sticking with the recipe in post #57, It's a little more complex to brew than the one with sugar but it's so close to CPA it's worth the effort.
I've also replaced the beersmith file and edited the recipe to reflect my results.
Here's the new Beersmith file as well.

View attachment Coopers_All_Grain.bsm


Andrew


----------



## gibbocore

Hi All,

Quick question for andrew or anyone else, with the mineral additions, if i already add 5.2 stabiliser, do i still need to add the others to the mash? I take it this is to aid in attenuation?

And also, where would i buy calcium chloride and gypsum?


----------



## AndrewQLD

gibbocore said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Quick question for andrew or anyone else, with the mineral additions, if i already add 5.2 stabiliser, do i still need to add the others to the mash? I take it this is to aid in attenuation?
> 
> And also, where would i buy calcium chloride and gypsum?



Craftbrewer sells the salts, as should most HB shops. From my understanding 5.2 is for PH adjustment and if your adding salts to the mash you probably won't need it, but that depends on what your adding.
The salt additions I have used are based on my local water chemistry and were calculated using John Palmers Residual Alkalinity spreadsheet, these additions get my mash within acceptable PH levels as well as giving the beer a more rounded, not too malty or too bitter profile.

You can download the spreadsheet from here, enter your local water profile and then adjust the salt contributions to get the desired results.

Of course you can still brew this beer without the salt additions with good results, and if you do you will need to use your 5.2 for your PH adjustment.

Andrew


----------



## gibbocore

Cheers for the quick reply mate. I'll just run the 5.2 stabiliser i think as sydney water is pretty rounded as it is. Will be doing the steps as a decoction, so a long day is in stall for me. (will be keeping the grain boiling to a minimum as to keep the colour)


----------



## AndrewQLD

Have fun, and can you let me know the results and thoughts when your finally drinking the beer?

Andrew


----------



## gibbocore

Will do, cheers.


----------



## Bribie G

gibbocore said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Quick question for andrew or anyone else, with the mineral additions, if i already add 5.2 stabiliser, do i still need to add the others to the mash? I take it this is to aid in attenuation?
> 
> And also, where would i buy calcium chloride and gypsum?



I use 5.2 and put in a bit of epsom salts for the magnesium and a bit of Calcium Chloride just in case if I am making a pale ale. Ross sells all the brewing salts for about $3,50 a pop... probably enough to last you a couple of years.


----------



## gibbocore

i have this on tap now, and all i can say is WOW, so damned close to the origional.

Well done Andrew, i didn't quite get the attenuation, only got to 1010, but this in the end allowed for a heap of malt aroma, what a great underrated yeast, i'm going to use the slurry to make a stout.

Also a tip for anyone attempting this, the harshness of POR is essential for the coopers taste, i used super alpha, thinking its only bittering so what difference could it possibly make, well its almost a bit too clean.

Also, leave heaps of headspace cause this yeast is a bit of a houdini.

Anyone got a good coopers stout recipe?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Thanks gibbocore I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I haven't got a Coopers Stout recipe but I have a Coopers Dark Ale recipe that I'm drinking now and is really nice, smooth with a hint of Chocolate and toast. And your right the yeast is great in the Darker Ales.

View attachment CDA.bsm

if you don't use BeerSmith let me know.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Hutch

gibbocore said:


> Also a tip for anyone attempting this, the harshness of POR is essential for the coopers taste, i used super alpha, thinking its only bittering so what difference could it possibly make, well its almost a bit too clean.
> 
> Also, leave heaps of headspace cause this yeast is a bit of a houdini.


Very good advice there.

I made this recently with Super-pride instead of POR flowers (not available ATM), and it is slightly lacking something, (though still a good quaffer). Only needed 16gms Super Pride at 60minutes, so no real surprises that the hops are undetectable.

I'd have to say though, that when I made this recipe with Northdown instead of POR, it was an absolute ripper of a beer. Never would have thought that an English hop would work so well, with a fantastic flavour that complements the bready/fruity coopers character.
Then again, POR is from English bloodlines originally!


----------



## Kai

gibbocore said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Quick question for andrew or anyone else, with the mineral additions, if i already add 5.2 stabiliser, do i still need to add the others to the mash? I take it this is to aid in attenuation?



Adding salts will also affect the flavour profile of the beer. I think most particularly is how the different salts affect the perception of bitterness. Of course, as mentioned, your salt additions come down to the initial composition of your water..


----------



## drsmurto

I've posted this question before but have never had a satisfactory answer (or at least one that agrees with me :lol: )

What would the result be if i followed this recipe but used wyeast 3522 instead? 

A BPA made with POR.....  

Its been in my head for a while - CPA doesnt really seem like an english pale ale despite Thomas Coopers origins. I find it has a spiciness to it that presumably comes from a combination of the POR and the yeast. A BPA yeast such as 3522 lists spiciness as one fo the products. 3522 is also a high attenuator and a great floccer. CPA is also a good session beer. 

Thoughts?

Making Rooks BPA recipe this weekend but want to use the yeast cake for something else......


----------



## AndrewQLD

To be honest DrSmurto, I think you would be very disappointed, _the_ main flavour contributer to CPA is the yeast. I've tried this with several other yeasts and they produce a bland lifeless beer lacking in any real flavour. Given that the grain bill is quite plain and the hop contributions are so low and only bittering you need a yeast with a lot of character to get something tasty and the CPA strain has a lot more than most.

Probably not the answer you wanted though  

Andrew


----------



## kabooby

I think you should give it a go. I recently fermented a German pils with a Saison yeast and it was great. I have used WLP550 before and it is a good yeast. Mrmalty says its the same as 3522.

There is only one answer to your question and that is to do it yourself and see.

Kabooby


----------



## gibbocore

I just had an epiphany, I had left a mouthful of my coopers clone in a glass last night, and I had a sniff this morning, the malt flavours are extremely similar to that of some bitters, like Youngs for example, it was a signature smell that I have been trying to get into my beers for a while with no luck from English yeasts, not sure why really, but it's a pain. Anywho, my coopers has also flocced out to a brilliant straw colour and left me with almost pilsener like malt flavours (doing a triple step decoction might have helped here) but what I'm getting at is that i think I'm going to brew a bitter or esb with the coopers yeast and give it some hop character, see what happens, something tells me I'm going to be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## kabooby

I poured my first glass of this beer on Sunday. What a great drop. I changed the recipe by adding some fresh homegrown Hersbrucker flowers at the end and added some Marris otter to top up the base malt.

Thanks Andrew for the recipe, definately brewing this one again.

Kabooby  

Stick it in your Ringwood
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L 
Boil Size: 48.17 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 10.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.55 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)Grain 78.72 % 
0.95 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5Grain 13.48 % 
0.40 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBGrain 5.67 % 
0.15 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 2.13 % 
40.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.30 %] (60 min) Hops 24.5 IBU 
35.00 gm Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Coopers Australian Ale Yeast (Coopers) Yeast-Ale


----------



## KHB

I will be making a double batch of this tonight based on Andrewqld recipe

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Coopers Clone Pale Ale 
Brewer: 
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Australian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (48.0) 


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 46.00 L 
Boil Size: 52.87 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 9.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC)Grain 94.22 % 
0.40 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBGrain 5.03 % 
0.06 kg Crystal Dark Bairds (240.0 EBC) Grain 0.75 % 
57.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops 26.3 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 7.96 kg
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
10 min Protein Rest Add 23.88 L of water at 56.1 C 50.0 C 
60 min Saccharification Heat to 67.0 C over 15 min 67.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 

As i no chill im wondering if i should move the 60min addition to 45min like i have read to stop over bittering?? I use a hop sock aswell. Anyone out the done this recipe no chill and got some ideas for me??

Cheers

Scotsman


----------



## KHB

AndrewQLD said:


> I've done this no chill a few times, can't really say I noticed any difference.
> Just do the recipe as is, being in SA I'm pretty sure it would cool down fast anyway  .
> 
> Andrew




No worries will do. I have made this before and loved it. Cant wait to have it on tap again!

Scotsman


----------



## malbur

Hi Andrew,

I just cracked the lid of my first attempt at the latest sugarless recipe with POR flowers instead of pellets. 
WOW! what a difference, very nice.
A lot of my mates drink coopers i think they will be impressed, if i let them near it.
I no chilled and think it is fine, the way it is.
Thanks again for the recipe. :icon_cheers:


----------



## KHB

AndrewQLD said:


> Cheers Malbur, nice to get the feedback. Good to see a second opinion regarding the no chill theory.
> 
> Andrew




I have two 20lt cubes sitting awaiting fermentation so will report back once they have been fermented.

Scotsman


----------



## AndrewQLD

Cheers Malbur, nice to get the feedback. Good to see a second opinion regarding the no chill theory.

Andrew


----------



## Phoney

Im just about to put this one on, just a question:


If I wanted to add in an aroma hop to give it a nice hoppy 'kick' which of these would one suggest to use?

Cascade
Tettnanger
Hallertauer
Perle
Amarillo
Fuggles
Styrian Goldings
EGK
Sterling
Czech Saaz
PoR ...of course


.. and how much? (this is what ive got in stock)


----------



## AndrewQLD

Hmmm, none?
But if you want a hop finish I'd go EKG or Fuggles, the fuggles are really nice with the esters from the Coopers Yeast.

Andrew


----------



## Gopha

AndrewQLD said:


> Hmmm, none?
> But if you want a hop finish I'd go EKG or Fuggles, the fuggles are really nice with the esters from the Coopers Yeast.
> 
> Andrew


Hi, About to go down the same path, using 25grams ROR @ 60min and 10grams EKG @ 20min. 38lt boil with 25lt in the fermenter. 
I have made the the standard no sugar recipe a couple of times now, to tweak my Hybrid Herms BIAB setup, next brew session should nail a couple of issues I have had. Just feel like playing with the flavour a bit. Cheers


----------



## Hefty

I did this recipe for my first AG about 2 weeks ago.
I thought I was too high for my mash temp but it's still come down to 1005!
FG sample already tastes awesome. I lowered temp today to crash chill and hopefully it should be in the keg within half a week!
Top work Andrew! I had Coopers on tap for the first time in ages the other night and then tried my FG sample the other day. My bitterness it a little higher but man!!! with your recipe and Coopers yeast it's almost exactly the same!!
I know normally clones are supposed to be very ballpark sort of comparisons but this is really very very close to the real thing!!
I'll be brewing it again for sure!!
Thanks again!

HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
Jono.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Hefty said:


> I did this recipe for my first AG about 2 weeks ago.
> I thought I was too high for my mash temp but it's still come down to 1005!
> FG sample already tastes awesome. I lowered temp today to crash chill and hopefully it should be in the keg within half a week!
> Top work Andrew! I had Coopers on tap for the first time in ages the other night and then tried my FG sample the other day. My bitterness it a little higher but man!!! with your recipe and Coopers yeast it's almost exactly the same!!
> I know normally clones are supposed to be very ballpark sort of comparisons but this is really very very close to the real thing!!
> I'll be brewing it again for sure!!
> Thanks again!
> 
> HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
> Jono.



Thanks Hefty, I appreciate the feedback and I'm glad it turned out close to the original, I think getting the FG as low as you did is one of the clinchers for getting this recipe right.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Batz

All you brewers adding late additions of what ever hops, it's no longer a Coopers Ale Clone. I'm sure your making nice brews but it won't be what was intended by this recipe.

Batz


----------



## Hefty

Well, i finished my first keg of this the other day and it was a great beer.
I got a little more ester than the real deal but not too overpowering. Probably from slight underpitching. I might ferment one degree cooler in future to help this. It did lessen (or maybe other other things made it seem less) with a few weeks aging.
Top work AndrewQLD!

HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
Jono.


----------



## PhilA

:icon_chickcheers: Hi Andrew , just thought i'd let you know i have just made your coppers clone and also your Bosun Bitter , they both smell great , should be racking on the weekend I'll let you know how they come out 
Cheers Phil :icon_cheers:


----------



## AndrewQLD

Great stuff Phil, two great styles to have on tap. The Bosuns is a fav of mine but I haven't brewed it in a while.
Looking forward to reading your results.

Andrew


----------



## AndrewQLD

Hefty said:


> Well, i finished my first keg of this the other day and it was a great beer.
> I got a little more ester than the real deal but not too overpowering. Probably from slight underpitching. I might ferment one degree cooler in future to help this. It did lessen (or maybe other other things made it seem less) with a few weeks aging.
> Top work AndrewQLD!
> 
> HABAHAGD! :icon_cheers:
> Jono.



Don't know how I missed your post Hefty, glad you enjoyed, the esters will disappear with time but your right, an underpitch can raise the levels a bit.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## sav

Hi andrew whacked this down in a cube today while the boy was haven a nap,I went the orig recipe cause I am getting low on grain stocks,nice easy brew to do.

I cubed it and I will get a starter going,how are the long necks for yeast or is there more in a stubbie.

I had a cpa on tap at the tavern yesterday for lunch I said thats a cheap keg filler I will get on to that.
let you know how it goes andy. :icon_cheers: 


cheers SAVY.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Hi Sav, I haven't used a tallie for culturing, I usually use 2 stubbies.
Either way you should get a good starter going before you pitch, the more yeast the better.
Hope it turns out well'

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## sav

Andrew thinking of trying Danstar munich wheat what do you think ,I have tried it in a Heffe when it was first released but it was lacking the bannana,I think it would be similar slight bready and slight banana,just a thought what you think.


----------



## PhilA

Hi Andrew , Well I bottled last week , both beers were in fermenter for 2 weeks it was still fermenting I know it took a while but that's fine , then racked for a week also the coopers went down to 1005 so happy with that the Bosun went down to 1012 , racked the same then bulk primed then bottled . I think I will try one today it will only be a week old in bottle but I normally try my beers at one week intavials I like tasting how it developes in the bottle over the coming weeks , let you know soon how they turn out
Cheers Phil :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Wolfy

Brewed this on Monday to test out a bunch of new gear (Mill, CFC, fridgemate/fridge), also used Powels Pils also ended up mashing a little too low, so - not unexpectedly - the OG was down a fair bit.

Checked it on Friday it was down to 1.004 and the yeast had started to settle! I did use a 2L starter but at about 16-17deg, I thought it would take much longer.
It's a little hoppier (10 & 25g additions) but there is still the background banana and other usual aromas, less than a week out of the kettle I almost want drink it now (although that could be related to the lack of other beer in the house).


----------



## AndrewQLD

sav said:


> Andrew thinking of trying Danstar munich wheat what do you think ,I have tried it in a Heffe when it was first released but it was lacking the bannana,I think it would be similar slight bready and slight banana,just a thought what you think.



Not sure sav, but if it has that bready flavor it should be good.



PhilWA said:


> Hi Andrew , Well I bottled last week , both beers were in fermenter for 2 weeks it was still fermenting I know it took a while but that's fine , then racked for a week also the coopers went down to 1005 so happy with that the Bosun went down to 1012 , racked the same then bulk primed then bottled . I think I will try one today it will only be a week old in bottle but I normally try my beers at one week intavials I like tasting how it developes in the bottle over the coming weeks , let you know soon how they turn out
> Cheers Phil :icon_chickcheers:



Looking forward to the tasting comments Phil, good attenuation on the CPA, should be a good drop. The Bosuns sounds like it finished well too.



Wolfy said:


> Brewed this on Monday to test out a bunch of new gear (Mill, CFC, fridgemate/fridge), also used Powels Pils also ended up mashing a little too low, so - not unexpectedly - the OG was down a fair bit.
> 
> Checked it on Friday it was down to 1.004 and the yeast had started to settle! I did use a 2L starter but at about 16-17deg, I thought it would take much longer.
> It's a little hoppier (10 & 25g additions) but there is still the background banana and other usual aromas, less than a week out of the kettle I almost want drink it now (although that could be related to the lack of other beer in the house).



Again good attenuation Wolfy and the low temp will keep the banana down, I think the big starters really help with this beer.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## PhilA

Hi AndrewQLD
Well as promised I have tryed both of your beers , the Coopers & the Bosum Bitter.
The Coopers is nice with a full malt taste and surprising to get so much hop from so little , my favorite is the Bosom Bitter beautiful I'll make this one again ! :chug: 
Cheers :beerbang: Phil


----------



## Yeastie Beastie

Haha, I have found something to brew with all the skywater that fell yesterday. Collected 100 odd liters in fermentors for beer brewing. 

Looks like a winner.


----------



## under

What can be used instead of the dark crystal?


----------



## AndrewQLD

under said:


> What can be used instead of the dark crystal?



Dark crystal only, anything else will give a different result, I've got a little to spare, if you want me to post down the 30g required send me a pm with your address details.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## juzz1981

Snow said:


> 1.5g Epsom salt - in mash
> 2g gypsum - in mash
> 1tsp table salt - in mash
> 1 pinch sodium met - in mash
> 1 tsp yeast nutrient - 10 mins



Hi,

What is the purpose of these ingredients? I assume they are there for a reason?


----------



## under

Heh. Thanks for that Andrew. I appreciate your generosity but I just bought some 

Brewing this tomorrow.


----------



## Wolfy

juzz1981 said:


> What is the purpose of these ingredients? I assume they are there for a reason?


The salts are to adjust the water profile - what you add usually depends on your local water and/or the type of beer you are brewing.
Sodium met is a bacterial inhibitor and (Campden tablets) are also be used to eliminate chlorine/chloramine from brewing liquor (but I don't know why it's been included in this case).
Yeast nutrient is exactly that; additional nutrients to assist with yeast growth and fermentation.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Wolfy said:


> The salts are to adjust the water profile - what you add usually depends on your local water and/or the type of beer you are brewing.
> Sodium met is a bacterial inhibitor and (Campden tablets) are also be used to eliminate chlorine/chloramine from brewing liquor (but I don't know why it's been included in this case).
> Yeast nutrient is exactly that; additional nutrients to assist with yeast growth and fermentation.



I think the sodium met in this case is probably used to remove oxygen from the mash to prevent HSA, it's a fairly controversial method to prevent something that may or may not be a noticeable fault, that being HSA. 

Andrew


----------



## QldKev

I've been thinking of a mid strength version for drinking during the week.
Aiming for 3.5%

2.75 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) 
0.15 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) 
0.03 kg Crystal Dark Bairds 

22g POR @ 60min


So I adjusted everything but the Crystal Dark; Im trying to hold some sweet/caramel flavour in it. Do you think it will throw out the balance too much? Also the POR worked out to be 20g, I though I would push the malt/hop ratio a bit.

I was going to leave out the yeast nutrient since I'm starting with such a small grain bill and I want to leave something in it; but I will still aim for a mash temp of 64.5c to ensure I do get a low FG, hopefully just not too low.

What do you think?

QldKev


----------



## AndrewQLD

Worth a try Kev, hopefully it will result in a nice easy drinking mid strength with a bit of yeast backbone, I'd be keen to give it a taste.

Andrew


----------



## Bribie G

under said:


> What can be used instead of the dark crystal?



Although as Andrew says it will give a different result, Wheat Caramel Malt goes well in a Coopers clone. I use it in a Sparkling (as opposed to Pale Ale) version at the rate of about 60g. Gives the caramelly effect without sweetness.


----------



## AndrewQLD

BribieG said:


> Although as Andrew says it will give a different result, Wheat Caramel Malt goes well in a Coopers clone. I use it in a Sparkling (as opposed to Pale Ale) version at the rate of about 60g. Gives the caramelly effect without sweetness.



I tend to disagree, carawheat is as Bribie says quite caramelly and that is not something I'd want in a Coopers clone, far from it.
I tried this grain for the first time in my Cromwell bitter and it was very overpowering, perhaps I'm a little sensetive to diacetyl but that malt leaves a similar taste in my mouth.


----------



## np1962

Kegged tonight a beer based on this recipe. Had been chilling for almost two weeks as I waited for an empty keg.
19L into the keg. What to do with the other 2L in the fermenter? Hydrometer sample tasted good, was nice and cold... oh well three pints later it's all gone and made cleaning the fermenter a more pleasant chore.
If the carbonated beer is as good I will be very happy.
Thanks for the recipe AndrewQld and for the excellent discussion thread.
Cheers
Nige


----------



## PhilA

:icon_chickcheers: Hi AndrewQLD 
The Cooper's came out nice but I want to ask did your's taste a lot bitter than the bought 
Coopers in the bottle , mine did but I only put in 28 g flowers for 60 mins but the bitterness was a lot bitter than I would of expected your thoughts would be appreciated , I was thinking of 28 g for 45 mins ?
Cheers Phil
p.s still drinking Bosum, lovely mmm


----------



## AndrewQLD

PhilWA said:


> :icon_chickcheers: Hi AndrewQLD
> The Cooper's came out nice but I want to ask did your's taste a lot bitter than the bought
> Coopers in the bottle , mine did but I only put in 28 g flowers for 60 mins but the bitterness was a lot bitter than I would of expected your thoughts would be appreciated , I was thinking of 28 g for 45 mins ?
> Cheers Phil
> p.s still drinking Bosum, lovely mmm



What AA were your hops Phil, the recipe is based on 28g of POR at 10%AA which will give 28 ibu total, if your POR had a higher AA then it will be more bitter. 

Andrew


----------



## AndrewQLD

NigeP62 said:


> Kegged tonight a beer based on this recipe. Had been chilling for almost two weeks as I waited for an empty keg.
> 19L into the keg. What to do with the other 2L in the fermenter? Hydrometer sample tasted good, was nice and cold... oh well three pints later it's all gone and made cleaning the fermenter a more pleasant chore.
> If the carbonated beer is as good I will be very happy.
> Thanks for the recipe AndrewQld and for the excellent discussion thread.
> Cheers
> Nige



Thanks Nige, hope you enjoy it as much once it's gassed, if I have extra left in the fermenter after kegging I usually bottle it and save it for a rainy day, but hell if it tastes good out of the fermenter then why not!


----------



## PhilA

I'll check the AA % next time , I want to make it again as 
I like Coopers oh buy the wayI bottle at the moment 
Cheers Phil


----------



## PhilA

Hi Andrew 
I just brewed your Cooper's again with new hop's I think the last batch had old hop's in it , anyway I was wondering if you have tryed only dry hoping the cooper's becauce the bought one has no bittering taste at all , what are your thoughts on that ? 
Cheers Phil :icon_cheers:


----------



## JestersDarts

PhilWA said:


> Hi Andrew
> I just brewed your Cooper's again with new hop's I think the last batch had old hop's in it , anyway I was wondering if you have tryed only dry hoping the cooper's becauce the bought one has no bittering taste at all , what are your thoughts on that ?
> Cheers Phil :icon_cheers:



oh but it does...

Anyway - I rekon i'll give this a shot for my next brewday. Cheers for the recipe.
Will give me some practice at reculturing the yeast too.


----------



## AndrewQLD

PhilWA said:


> Hi Andrew
> I just brewed your Cooper's again with new hop's I think the last batch had old hop's in it , anyway I was wondering if you have tryed only dry hoping the cooper's becauce the bought one has no bittering taste at all , what are your thoughts on that ?
> Cheers Phil :icon_cheers:



There is a fair bit of bittering in Pale Ale, 28 ibu from memory so you will definitely need the bittering addition, however if you are chasing more flavour from the hops then by all means try a later addition or even add all the hops at say the 30 minute or 20 minute mark, but you will have to calculate more hops into the equation to take into account the loss in IBU. And it won't be like a Coopers Pale Ale.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## MHB

"Clone Recipes" always bemuse me; the name implies that you are trying to make a faithful copy of a beer you admire. Otherwise it should be called something else.
Everything I can put together about CPA and most other beers by Coopers leads me to believe they are incredibly simple beers, all be it very well made and you haven't got a chance of getting within Cooee if you aren't using Coopers Yeast.

Had the pleasure of doing the tour back in June, the tour guide said "the Pale and Sparkling are the same with different amounts of water". Take that to mean Mashed with different L:G ratios. That they were all bittered with POR and that the same yeast is used throughout all the Ales they produce.

I strongly suspect that CPA and CSA are both SMASH beers; that there is no Wheat, Crystal or Sugar in them, just Ale Malt and a good bittering addition.

If you do the numbers it all stands up, the colour, gravity mouth-feel, aroma it all makes sense, if you can brew.

MHB


----------



## AndrewQLD

MHB said:


> "Clone Recipes" always bemuse me; the name implies that you are trying to make a faithful copy of a beer you admire. Otherwise it should be called something else.
> Everything I can put together about CPA and most other beers by Coopers leads me to believe they are incredibly simple beers, all be it very well made and you haven't got a chance of getting within Cooee if you aren't using Coopers Yeast.
> 
> Had the pleasure of doing the tour back in June, the tour guide said "the Pale and Sparkling are the same with different amounts of water". Take that to mean Mashed with different L:G ratios. That they were all bittered with POR and that the same yeast is used throughout all the Ales they produce.
> 
> I strongly suspect that CPA and CSA are both SMASH beers; that there is no Wheat, Crystal or Sugar in them, just Ale Malt and a good bittering addition.
> 
> If you do the numbers it all stands up, the colour, gravity mouth-feel, aroma it all makes sense, if you can brew.
> 
> MHB



And sadly brewery tour guides are renowned for knowing SFA about the beers they are talking about although I do agree it is a fairly simplistic brew and the no sugar comment is spot on as is the single hop addition. However I disagree with the single malt theory.

Andrew


----------



## bignath

MHB said:


> I strongly suspect that CPA and CSA are both SMASH beers; that there is no Wheat, Crystal or Sugar in them, just Ale Malt and a good bittering addition.




Yeah i'd been thinking this too. After trying some more complex beers, going back to the good old faithful green and red labelled ales, makes me think that they are ridiculously simple SMASH beers. 

Only thing i'm not sure about though is the sugar. I was under the impression that they used a small quantity of sugar or some dry enzyme thing to get the FG to around 1.005. Probably mash lowish too?

ATM, most of my AG's finish at around 1.008/1.010.


----------



## MHB

AndrewQLD said:


> And sadly brewery tour guides are renowned for knowing SFA about the beers they are talking about although I do agree it is a fairly simplistic brew and the no sugar comment is spot on as is the single hop addition. However I disagree with the single malt theory.
> Andrew



Why?
When I do the colour calculation (allowing for kettle colour development over 60 minutes) I get 8-10 EBC for the PA, pretty much exactly what the beer comes in at. One of the (for me) fundamentals of cloning a beer well it's a bit like Ockham's Razor the simplest explanation that explains all of the facts is probably the right one (apologies to Fr William for the egregious truncation) A SMASH explains everything I see and taste.

And yes I've had some very interesting tour guides, Frank at Coopers knew his stuff, most memorable was a girl at CUB, holding up a jar of hops labelled Willamette, she was standing in front of the production flow diagram that clearly showed the bitterness being added after lagering trying to tell us that "These' hops got put in the kettle as if CUB use hops - all extract!

MHB


----------



## AndrewQLD

MHB said:


> Why?
> When I do the colour calculation (allowing for kettle colour development over 60 minutes) I get 8-10 EBC for the PA, pretty much exactly what the beer comes in at. One of the (for me) fundamentals of cloning a beer well it's a bit like Ockham's Razor the simplest explanation that explains all of the facts is probably the right one (apologies to Fr William for the egregious truncation) A SMASH explains everything I see and taste.
> 
> And yes I've had some very interesting tour guides, Frank at Coopers knew his stuff, most memorable was a girl at CUB, holding up a jar of hops labelled Willamette, she was standing in front of the production flow diagram that clearly showed the bitterness being added after lagering trying to tell us that "These' hops got put in the kettle as if CUB use hops - all extract!
> 
> MHB



Do a search on here MHB for the White Board thread, seems pretty obvious to me that more than one malt is used in the sparkling ale as well as the Pale Ale. After converting from their volumes and taking into account our poor efficiencies compared to theirs the numbers add up. 
I'm a bit surprised you can claim there is no wheat malt in the recipe, your taste buds must be much better than mine given the low quantities involved.
And yes Frank did know his stuff, I had several conversations with him in which he was kind enough to refer back to the brewery manager for more detail, this was especially useful in my salt addition calculations.

Andrew


----------



## np1962

MHB said:


> If you do the numbers it all stands up, the colour, gravity mouth-feel, aroma  it all makes sense, if you can brew.
> MHB


Oh shit! I think Graham Sanders has hacked MHB's account


----------



## MHB

It's hardly case of being right or wrong, just about how designing a clone brew.
The whole implication of applying Ockham's Razor is that I can't taste any wheat in there so why would I put it in; nothing about the beer suggests or requires the addition. I don't know for a fact that there isn't any wheat or crystal for that matter. But as a part of beer design philosophy I would always start at the most basic possible recipe that satisfies the beer specifications and build up from there at need.
If you think you detect Wheat then use it, if you taste Crystal or the colour profile suggests it, again it becomes a required part of the recipe conversely if you can't taste them and lacking evidence for their presence; then they shouldn't be used.
MHB

PS
Oh the "Whiteboard" 

Coopers brew on a Meura 2000 Mash Filter. One of the rules for using a mash filter is that the grain bill must always be the same size, add up the info on the "White Board", again to quote frank Coopers mash in 10.5 Ton, up to 8 times a day. It's possible that there was some data from the old brewhouse, but it's going to be way out of date.
M

PPS
Anyone got a copy of the whiteboard, not a copy of what someone says is on it, an actual copy? I would like to see it.
M



> Oh shit! I think Graham Sanders has hacked MHB's account



PPPS
Sorry about that got rushed, been out brought a car, served several dozen customers, unloaded a pallet load of stock...
Wasn't meant quite the way it sounds, more like it all stands up when put together with good brewing practice 
M

PPPPS
It's a bugger trying to write a coherent post over a couple of hours
Mark


----------



## AndrewQLD

You will find a full colour photo of the white board in the book "Amber and Black" by Willie Simpson published 2001. And yes I do have the book, sadly I don't have a scanner or I'd post it up for you.

Either way, I'm pretty happy with my attempts at "cloning" this brew while at the same time using as close as possible to the authentic ingredients, despite the fact that I can't perceive them in tasting the beer :lol: .

Andrew


----------



## juzz1981

Hi Guys,

Is it a necessity to add the gypsum, epsom salt, calcium salt and yeast nutrient?

And yes I am a AG novice, and yes its probably a spastic question 

edit: Oh and should I really try and obtain some PoR flowers, I have some pellets in the freezer but probably 12months old... 

Also I dont have dark crystal but I do have stacks of medium..... would this be ok?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Juzz, the salt additions are based on my local profile and you would more than likely not require them. As far as the crystal malt goes I prefer the dark crystal but medium will work if you add half as much again.
POR flowers give a smoother bittering profile in my opinion.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

AndrewQLD said:


> Juzz, the salt additions are based on my local profile and you would more than likely not require them. As far as the crystal malt goes I prefer the dark crystal but medium will work if you add half as much again.
> POR flowers give a smoother bittering profile in my opinion.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew




Sorry if this has already been asked but I read the whole thread a few months ago and didn't want to start again!!

Any opinion on what the best fermenting temp is for your clone, I have done one already and was great but i could have got more out of the yeast.


----------



## manticle

I will be doing some variation of this recipe in the next week or two. The dark crystal addition of 30 g is intriguing.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

manticle said:


> I will be doing some variation of this recipe in the next week or two. The dark crystal addition of 30 g is intriguing.



I thought so too but the slight flavour blends really well with the coopers yeast, my 2c


----------



## manticle

I tend to look at recipes as a guide and generate my own (the ex chef in me) but I might bite the bullet and brew this one as is.

It will be the second one I've done that way but I do have plans to push out a few of the alts from the db and warren's 3 shades of stout - maybe I should add them to my brewing resolutions for 2011.


----------



## AndrewQLD

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked but I read the whole thread a few months ago and didn't want to start again!!
> 
> Any opinion on what the best fermenting temp is for your clone, I have done one already and was great but i could have got more out of the yeast.



I usually ferment @ 16-18 and get good results although I have pushed this up to 21 without too many problems also.


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

I've made this a few times now. each time using a different crystal (through necessity). It is amazing the change in flavour that such a small addition gives. 


manticle said:


> The dark crystal addition of 30 g is intriguing.


----------



## QldKev

manticle said:


> I tend to look at recipes as a guide and generate my own (the ex chef in me) but I might bite the bullet and brew this one as is.
> 
> It will be the second one I've done that way but I do have plans to push out a few of the alts from the db and warren's 3 shades of stout - maybe I should add them to my brewing resolutions for 2011.



Hey manticle

The CPA I sent you last lotto was 100% AndrewQld's recipie - no sugar version
His exact grain bill, BB Ale, Wheat and Crystal
Including his salt additions (I live close to him so our water is the same)
POR Flowers
The CPA Yeast culture AndrewQld orginally grew up about 1.5/2 years ago
Fermented at 18c
About the only difference I don't use the yeast nutrient.

This is such an awsome simple beer.

Kev


----------



## manticle

Looks like I'll be drinking a couple of cooper's longnecks later in the week.


----------



## stef

Just wondering what sort of FG's people have had on this recipe? I did this as my first BIAB a couple of weeks ago, but missed the SG of 1.044 and got 1.040 instead. I added 200g of cane sugar after it had been fermenting for a few days. 

Its down to 1.010 now and doesnt seem to be dropping. I upped the temp from 15 to 18 and will leave for a little longer, but just curious if anyone has had it finished around 1.010?

Cheers


----------



## ginsoakedstranger

Haven't done this one but read earlier in the thread that people have got as low as 1.006.
Apparently the further you can get it down the closer it is to the real thing.
This recipe will get a go this weekend me thinks.. 


stef said:


> Just wondering what sort of FG's people have had on this recipe? I did this as my first BIAB a couple of weeks ago, but missed the SG of 1.044 and got 1.040 instead. I added 200g of cane sugar after it had been fermenting for a few days.
> 
> Its down to 1.010 now and doesnt seem to be dropping. I upped the temp from 15 to 18 and will leave for a little longer, but just curious if anyone has had it finished around 1.010?
> 
> Cheers


----------



## manticle

Jut upgraded my mash tun and plumbed a new HLT (old cheap aluminium pot fell apart, new one is much more sturdy).

This brew will be the maiden brew on a new system and the first for 2011. I've scaled it up manually as I don't use software that does it for me so hopefully I've got it pretty close.

Type:	All grain
Size:	30 liters
Color: 4 HCU (~4 SRM) 
Bitterness: 28 IBU
OG:	1.049
FG:	1.012
Alcohol:	4.8% v/v (3.8% w/w)
Grain:	5.35kg JW Pilsner
300g JW Wheat malt
45g Simpsons dark crystal
Mash: 65 degrees,	70% efficiency
Boil: 60 minutes, SG 1.037, 40 liters
700g Cane sugar
Hops: 32g Pride of Ringwood flowers (10% AA, 60 min.)


1500mL starter reculture cooper's yeast


----------



## bear09

manticle said:


> 1500mL starter reculture cooper's yeast



I cant believe how active this yeast is. I made a 1L starter from 3 stubbies and then upped it to a 1.5L and the stuff was going nuts. I pitched it and it was fermenting in 23L after about 5 hours. At 17.5 degrees it still crept right up out of the fermenter - its the most active krausen I have ever seen. And now I know what everyone was saying about the banana smell - I opened the fridge and it smelt like a banana farm - incredible. Fermented out quick too - it stopped bubbling after 4 days.

There are two things about brewing that facinate me - Mashing and fermenting. I just think it is amazing what yeast can do and all the different types available. Its understated what a difference to beer it can make when treated properly.

Hope my clone attempt of CPA works.


----------



## Jimmeh

manticle said:


> Jut upgraded my mash tun and plumbed a new HLT (old cheap aluminium pot fell apart, new one is much more sturdy).
> 
> This brew will be the maiden brew on a new system and the first for 2011. I've scaled it up manually as I don't use software that does it for me so hopefully I've got it pretty close.
> 
> Type:	All grain
> Size:	30 liters
> Color: 4 HCU (~4 SRM)
> Bitterness: 28 IBU
> OG:	1.049
> FG:	1.012
> Alcohol:	4.8% v/v (3.8% w/w)
> Grain:	5.35kg JW Pilsner
> 300g JW Wheat malt
> 45g Simpsons dark crystal
> Mash: 65 degrees,	70% efficiency
> Boil: 60 minutes, SG 1.037, 40 liters
> 700g Cane sugar
> Hops: 32g Pride of Ringwood flowers (10% AA, 60 min.)
> 
> 
> 1500mL starter reculture cooper's yeast



I reckon your alcohol will be fairly high with that OG, mash temp, sugar, etc. Might kill the quaffability?


----------



## manticle

Alc level/ OG:FG is the same as stated recipe (4.8%/1049:1012). Sugar is included in the calculation, not an extra. Mash temp is also the same as stated recipe, just the fermentable amounts are different to reflect my expected efficiency and a slightly larger volume size.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Manticle, if you feel confident that you can get your wort to attenuate down to 1.006 then I would suggest you drop the base malt down to 3 kg to give you an S.G of 1.043, that will give you the desired 4.8% abv.
If your not confident then leave the recipe as is for a F.G of 1.012 giving you 4.8% abv.

Andrew


Edit: I really need to update the recipe file.


----------



## manticle

3kg for 23 litre batch or 30 litre batch? I've scaled up a bit.

Most of my AG brews stop at 1012 although I have heard this yeast is a monster so I wouldn't be surprised if she eats through more.

I've already cracked and mixed the grain for tomorrow - I'll see what the OG is after brewing and dilute if necessary. I can also lessen the sugar addition if the pre-boil SG suggests - just have to remember to take a pre-boil reading.

How do you think my current grain bill without any cane sugar would go?


----------



## AndrewQLD

3kg for a 23lt batch with the sugar addition.
The yeast can be a monster and you will get a lower than usual FG, the grain bill without the sugar should be fine, just aim for 1.043 SG and you should get down to around 1/006-8, make sure you keep to 28 ibu, any higher and it can be too bitter.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

AndrewQLD said:


> 3kg for a 23lt batch with the sugar addition.
> The yeast can be a monster and you will get a lower than usual FG, the grain bill without the sugar should be fine, just aim for 1.043 SG and you should get down to around 1/006-8, make sure you keep to 28 ibu, any higher and it can be too bitter.



Hey Mate,

done a couple of batches and can't fault your clone, love it, just wonder what size starter you use, mine lack a little in the ester department compared to the real thing :unsure:


----------



## manticle

AndrewQLD said:


> 3kg for a 23lt batch with the sugar addition.
> The yeast can be a monster and you will get a lower than usual FG, the grain bill without the sugar should be fine, just aim for 1.043 SG and you should get down to around 1/006-8, make sure you keep to 28 ibu, any higher and it can be too bitter.




Thanks Andrew. I'll dump the sugar if I hit my targets and recalculate the hop addition.



Heating strike water at the moment - probably my last brew till February.


----------



## manticle

Ended up recalculating a 200g sugar addition. OG was 1040 so a bit under (maiden brew on new system).

Split into 2 17 L cubes. Cube 1 fired up very quickly, cube 2 seemed to struggle until I top cropped a bit of cube 1's krausen into it. Then they both went nuts - 1040 - 1005 in a few days. Yeast was pitched Monday. Both cubes sitting at 20.5 degrees and apart from the fact that they taste like green beer, they are both very much in line with Coopers.

Can't fault the recipe. If you like coopers, have a crack. I'll leave mine a few more days, then CC for a week or so.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Sounds great Manticle, good to see you managed to get the FG down so low, should give you a nice dry finish.

Andrew


----------



## husky

I put this down on my new system the other day and based on the hydrometer samples im really looking forward to tasting.
Og 1.042 no sugar
2.5L starter(no stir plate)
1.042 down to 1.010 in three days at 17 degrees. Temp then increased to 20 degrees to finish off. Hopefully when i test it today its around 1.006. I was a little worried about the size of my yeast starter since once i crashed the starter there was only around 1mm of actual yeast settled out but it seems to have done the job so far. Will bring a bottle when I pick up the other bottles Andrew, will be interesting to see if the sugar makes much difference.


----------



## manticle

Mine will go into cold conditioning tomorrow morning so by the time I get back from Castlemaine next week she should be good to bottle. Might be in time to do a trade (although you'll need to wait for it to carb obviously).

You used the PoR flowers for yours?


----------



## husky

manticle said:


> Mine will go into cold conditioning tomorrow morning so by the time I get back from Castlemaine next week she should be good to bottle. Might be in time to do a trade (although you'll need to wait for it to carb obviously).
> 
> You used the PoR flowers for yours?




Yes mate the flowers i picked up from you last time. 25g @40. I reduced the addition to see if it makes any difference when no chilling. Will adjust up or down for next batch. I only put down 19 odd liters. The only beer the missus will drink is CPA so im sure i will have plenty of opportunity to play around with this recipe.


----------



## juzz1981

Hi,

Just made up this clone, but used medium crystal instead of dark, it tastes alright although not like an original CPA

Not sure whether its because i used hop pellets that have been stored in the freezer for 12months or because i used medium and not dark crystal?

Any Ideas Guys?


----------



## bear09

Kegged my first attempt at this beer 8 days ago...

Shamed to admit that the keg ran out last night - I had no help - this is not good.

I find it way to easy to smash 8 schooners of this within a couple of hours.

Its a great drop.

The one thing that brewing this beer has really showed me is the importance of yeast and its effects on the final product.

Thanks all for the help.


----------



## manticle

Mine is undercarbed for style but I prefer that. Did a side by side with a coopers commercial recently - similar but some differences. For starters this tastes a lot fresher (presumably because it is).

Damn tasty simple beer, great for summer and those people who wonder if you can brew 'normal beer'.

Goes down a treat, will brew again.


----------



## ekul

I accidently exploded my 'last bottle' of this last night when quick chilling in the freezer. Miracously i just found another two bottles of it while looking for some cascde ale. 

I cube a double batch of this stuff every second or third batch, so i'm surprised that i've run out again, but over chrissy it was a definite hit with the rellos. 

My latest batch had a jumping spider in the mash and a massive golden orb spider in the boil, so it may have an extra bite. i googled both spiders and they are both relatively harmless, plus it was a double batch so the poison will be really spread out. Who knows, it may even make it better


----------



## juzz1981

About to give this recipe a go, 


Style: Australian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (48.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.12 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.85 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM)Grain 85.62 % 
0.20 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.2 SRM) Grain 4.57 % 
0.03 kg Crystal Dark Bairds (121.8 SRM) Grain 0.68 % 
29.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.50 %] (60 min) Hops 26.2 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
0.25 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 9.13 % 
1 Pkgs Coopers pale Ale Cultured [Starter 1000 mlYeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 3.98 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 10.39 L of water at 68.9 C 63.0 C 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Does this look ok?
Added cane sugar to try and thin the body and get FG down below 1010.
Going to use a 1lt starter.


----------



## outbreak

Gave the recipe a go on the weekend, aimed for a 1.045 OG and nailed it! First time I have step mashed (BIAB step mashing is possible!) so hopefully the coopers yeast gets to a FG of around 1.008.

I had a taste this morning and the coopers pale flavour was prominent already which is great. My house mates are obsessed with coopers pale so if all goes well I will be brewing this one again.

How do coopers carb their kegs of pale? Do they add sugar or force carb? I thought using sugar and giving the keg a shake before pouring to give the cloudier appearance.


----------



## outbreak

I did the step mash in the recipe and the fg has been as 1.010 for 2 days now... Gave it a bit of a rock and bumped up the temp a couple of degrees, hopefully it gets down a few more points! 

It really tastes like CPA though! I am in trouble if my friends try it, they will be asking for it all the time....


----------



## StraussyStrauss

Made this little beauty yesterday. 

The day that shall be named ' The exploding 34L Demijohn. Featuring fresh wort on your kitchen floor.'

I don't really want to talk about it.

Alas today is a new day, and I'm giving it another go!! Wish me luck.

SS


----------



## String

I'm just boiling up a BIAB pot of this now.
The HBS said I wouldn't need whirlfloc if I wanted the standard cloudy appearance, but looking at the flecks of break floating around in the pot, I'm not so sure.

Will it settle out? Do I bolt up and get some whirlfloc? can I use the gelatine I have in the cupboard?

Thanks


----------



## Wolfy

String said:


> The HBS said I wouldn't need whirlfloc if I wanted the standard cloudy appearance, but looking at the flecks of break floating around in the pot, I'm not so sure.
> 
> Will it settle out? Do I bolt up and get some whirlfloc? can I use the gelatine I have in the cupboard?


Whirlfloc are kettle fininigs to help remove the hot (and cold) break from your beer.
The 'cloudy appearance' from Coopers Pale is from those people who like to rouse the yeast before drinking and not at all related to break material.
_(Nor would I suggest that the cloudy appearance is a characteristic of the beer but rather a characteristic of the un-educated-beer-wankers that think it is cool to rouse the beer simply because it was bottle conditioned)._
You can brew without the Whirlfloc, it and it should still settle out (the finings just help with the process) but next time you are at the HBS tell the guy he is an idiot and buy some kettle finnings for next time.

*Edit*: Gelatin is used as a post-ferment fining to help the yeast settle out, it is not a substitute for Whirlfloc that should be used in the boil.


----------



## Mikedub

it will after 20 min or so, but whirfloc does help compact the break down, I imagine your HBS would be closed now anyway, I wouldnt use gelatine in the boil, if that was what you meant,


----------



## sama

For those interested,Have been using the White labs oz ale yeast for a few batches and have found it to be awesome,spot on cpa.recultering from bottles gave me mixed results.no sugar required,starter of 2 litres at least (4l in two 2l steps if saved slurry old)and hits 1.006 (og 1.044) mashed at 64deg.nice and dry sesh ale,beating the tooheys drinking mates away with a stick.


----------



## AndrewQLD

sama said:


> For those interested,Have been using the White labs oz ale yeast for a few batches and have found it to be awesome,spot on cpa.recultering from bottles gave me mixed results.no sugar required,starter of 2 litres at least (4l in two 2l steps if saved slurry old)and hits 1.006 (og 1.044) mashed at 64deg.nice and dry sesh ale,beating the tooheys drinking mates away with a stick.



:super: 
That white labs strain is great sama as you say it's a lot more consistant that the bottle strain.


----------



## captaincleanoff

anyone tried it with US 05? How did it go?


----------



## bigandhairy

captaincleanoff said:


> anyone tried it with US 05? How did it go?


Its ok with us05, quite nice actually. But coopers yeast just sets it off nicely. 

bah


----------



## Housecat

Hi Captain,

I did a double batch and fermented half with US-05 and half with Coopers yeast. The difference was like chalk and cheese.

The Coopers yeast really makes this beer as it rounds out the flavours really well and if you get your temps right while fermenting you can get more or less banana and pear esters. 
The US-05 is a really clean, crisp fermenting yeast so the resulting beer IMO had no real flavour (compared to a CPA) and tasted a bit like dirty grain on the front of my palate. Although, after a glass or two it wasn't that noticeable. I ended up keg hopping this with galaxy and cascade at 1g/L and am pretty pleased with how it now tastes.

The next time I do a batch of this, I'll be doing one half with Coopers yeast and the other US-05 and dry hopping with the hop of my choice at the time.

Give it a go, the worst that you'll end up with is beer!

HC


----------



## A3k

Hi guys,
i'm about to make this. as it only has a 60min hop addition, i decided it probably wasn't worth buying any POR, but after reading this post it seems that it may actually have more of a positive affect than i thought.

so i'm after the answer the the trivial question, what should i substute for POR. 
Options:
Fuggles
Chinook
Simcoe
NZ Halerauer Aroma
B Saaz
Centennial
Citra
Amarillo
Galaxy
Nelson Sauvin

I thought i had some EKG, but can't find it.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## fcmcg

A3k said:


> Hi guys,
> i'm about to make this. as it only has a 60min hop addition, i decided it probably wasn't worth buying any POR, but after reading this post it seems that it may actually have more of a positive affect than i thought.
> 
> so i'm after the answer the the trivial question, what should i substute for POR.
> Options:
> Fuggles
> Chinook
> Simcoe
> NZ Halerauer Aroma
> B Saaz
> Centennial
> Citra
> Amarillo
> Galaxy
> Nelson Sauvin
> 
> I thought i had some EKG, but can't find it.
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan


This might help....
Simple google found it....
http://homebrewandbeer.com/hops.html
F


----------



## manticle

60 minute addition or not, the PoR is distinctive and lends a flavour to the brew.

Another hop will probably make a tasty beer and the coopers yeast will lend it a coopers quality but without PoR it will be different.


----------



## ekul

AndrewQLD said:


> :super:
> That white labs strain is great sama as you say it's a lot more consistant that the bottle strain.




I have been eyeing off a bottle of this at my local HBS but thought it wasn't the same. I will be buying a vial of it tomorrow. i love having coopers pale ale on tap but reculturing the yeast is annoying.

Great news!

A3K- I'd use fuggles. Of use the highest alpha one you have and give it an extra 15min boil. Personally i think the flavour of POR contributes a lot to this beer.


----------



## A3k

cheers guys,

i used the fuggles, but only had 40g, so i used the 43g of B Saaz.

I think i'll be happy with how this beer turns out, but i'm planning on making another batch of this in a few weeks, so will try the POR flowers next time.

cheers,
A3k


----------



## merlin032

About to bottle this one, can't wait to try it - tastes great out of the fermenter.

FYI, for those who have asked - the fabled whiteboard image


----------



## Dazza88

a3k how did the fuggles cpa go? i am in the same boat, no por but lots of other hops in the freezer. was thinking maybe galena or magnum or sonnet. 

maybe i should find a hbs that has white labs aussie ale an por flowers? but time is a factor


----------



## ynotnamlac

I was going to follow this recipe  as a mini-biab. The mash temperature is (it is indicated by the sparge temp is it???) is 172.4F which makes it almost 78C. Isn't that a little high?


----------



## JDW81

ynotnamlac said:


> I was going to follow this recipe  as a mini-biab. The mash temperature is (it is indicated by the sparge temp is it???) is 172.4F which makes it almost 78C. Isn't that a little high?



Why not just use the recipe and instructions which AndrewQLD has put up? At quick glance they are pretty much the same.

Mash temp is different to sparge temp. You would mash this at about 63-65 to convert the starches to sugars. Sparge is hotter to stop conversion and to get maximum efficiency when rinsing the grain of residual sugar. 

Have you had a good read of the thread? There is probably some good discussion on BIAB methods for this brew (I haven't looked, just hazarding a guess).

JD


----------



## stux

JDW81 said:


> Why not just use the recipe and instructions which AndrewQLD has put up? At quick glance they are pretty much the same.
> 
> Mash temp is different to sparge temp. You would mash this at about 63-65 to convert the starches to sugars. Sparge is hotter to stop conversion and to get maximum efficiency when rinsing the grain of residual sugar.
> 
> Have you had a good read of the thread? There is probably some good discussion on BIAB methods for this brew (I haven't looked, just hazarding a guess).
> 
> JD



_Coopers Pale Ale Clone
Australian Pale Ale
Brewer/Contributor: Andrew Clark_

That is AndrewQld's recipe.


----------



## manticle

ynotnamlac said:


> I was going to follow this recipe as a mini-biab. The mash temperature is (it is indicated by the sparge temp is it???) is 172.4F which makes it almost 78C. Isn't that a little high?



If you look lower, you will see the mash temp is 150.1F or 65 C.

Not necessary to sparge with BIAB, although some do.


----------



## citizensnips

Just do yee old dunk sparge


----------



## AndrewQLD

ynotnamlac said:


> I was going to follow this recipe  as a mini-biab. The mash temperature is (it is indicated by the sparge temp is it???) is 172.4F which makes it almost 78C. Isn't that a little high?




78c is the mash out temp not the mash temp, feel free to drop the mash out if you BIAB, it's not required. That's a pretty old version of the recipe, have a look at the first page of this thread for some more updated info and recipes.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## stux

So I brewed up a 60L batch of the improved all grain recipe. Got busy so I ended up kegging on the 28th of Dec after a couple of weeks chilling 

Anyway, just finished a couple of the kegs during a 3 day NYEE/NYE/NYD set of partie  (daughters birthday is NYE)

I thought it was still a little green, but the difference between this and cooper's pale was less than the seasonal and pub to pub variation you get with coopers 

A few other homebrewers at the parties were quite impressed 

We went through a keg of DSGA each day too.

Thanks for great recipe AndrewQld!


----------



## AndrewQLD

Thanks Stux, glad you liked it.
I have twin boys whose birthday falls on NYE as well, makes for a big night indeed.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## soundawake

I'm currently waiting for this beer to be ready in the bottle - I bottled it last monday. I stuck to the recipe but added a small late addition of Galaxy. Throwing a party on Australia day so it will be perfect for that! Tasted great out of the FV.


----------



## hwall95

Just wondering with regard to the POR, since it's added at 60 minutes would it be possible to add an English variety like EKG or Fuggle as a substitute without having a noticeable effect? Correct me if I'm wrong but from the main flavour of Cooper's Pale Ale comes from the yeast rather then POR doesn't it? Reason I'm asking is that I have a fair bit of fuggle and EKG but no POR so trying to use what I have before buying more if possible.

Cheers


----------



## AndrewQLD

Just make sure you keep to the recipe ibu and you will be fine.


----------



## LiquidGold

I brewed this for the first time last weekend and did no chill so adjusted the hops to 40 min. I also user weyer pils instead of bb pale since it was what I had on hand. I'm not sure how different it will taste but it should still be a nice drop.


----------



## manticle

> Just wondering with regard to the POR, since it's added at 60 minutes would it be possible to add an English variety like EKG or Fuggle as a substitute without having a noticeable effect? Correct me if I'm wrong but from the main flavour of Cooper's Pale Ale comes from the yeast rather then POR doesn't it? Reason I'm asking is that I have a fair bit of fuggle and EKG but no POR so trying to use what I have before buying more if possible.
> 
> Cheers


Theres's still a por charater in the above recipe and in commercial coopers. That said, ekg would still make a beer worth drinking.


----------



## SnakeDoctor

Hey guys

Did a batch of this, tastes pretty good but there is absolutely no head - even though it appears to be carbonated fine, any troubleshooting tips?


----------



## AndrewQLD

You should get a reasonable head with this beer although it will drop away to a thin foam. Is yours bottled or kegged?


----------



## SnakeDoctor

AndrewQLD said:


> You should get a reasonable head with this beer although it will drop away to a thin foam. Is yours bottled or kegged?


It's bottled - I typically keg so i'm allowing a bit of leeway with what I would see as "head", I basically see nothing - no white colour ontop of the beer at all, it's also cloudier than I would expect, I might have to get out the hydrometer on a sample after i've degassed it and ensure it's finished bottle carbonating, it's been 3 weeks inside.


----------



## AndrewQLD

The recipe typically gives a white head that drops to a thin foam, lacing is always very good. I would be looking at the carbonation levels of the bottled beer.
Cloudiness is perfectly normal if you used the coopers yeast strain as it doesn't floc to well and can take an eternity to drop out.


----------



## SnakeDoctor

Thanks for the notes AndrewQLD!


----------



## Droopy Brew

Am about to brew this on Sunday. Just looking at the Aust Sparkling Ale guidelines, it does mention their should be high carbonation.
What sort of carbonation levels would you look for when bottling? ( I will keg but bottle a few for a comp) I am wondering if putting 3 carb drops in a PET tally would be overdoing it?

Cheers,


----------



## michaeld16

Droopy Brew said:


> Am about to brew this on Sunday. Just looking at the Aust Sparkling Ale guidelines, it does mention their should be high carbonation.
> What sort of carbonation levels would you look for when bottling? ( I will keg but bottle a few for a comp) I am wondering if putting 3 carb drops in a PET tally would be overdoing it?
> 
> Cheers,


I reckon 3 would be overcarbed mate bulk priming would be the way to go 2.5 - 3 volumes of co2 would be my guess you could allways try the carb drops only if bottling into PET but i reckon you would need to burp them


----------



## Droopy Brew

YEah sort of what I thought. For the sake of 2 or 3 bottles I wont bother racking and BP. A couple of drops will do.
Cheers.


----------



## wynnum1

If you want to measure sugar accurately use digital scales and to check accuracy 10 cents coin weighs 5.66 grams 5 cents= 2.83 grams $2 =6.6 grams and $1 = 9 grams these weights are constant for coin operated machines.
If the scales are not accurate compensate.


----------



## michaeld16

wynnum1 said:


> If you want to measure sugar accurately use digital scales and to check accuracy 10 cents icoin weighs 5.66 grams 5 cents= 2.83 grams $2 =6.6 grams and $1 = 9 grams these weights are constant for coin operated machines.
> If the scales are not accurate compensate.


Did not know this great info


----------



## 1974Alby

how important is the stepped mash schedule? Thinking of giving this a go and wondering if I will notice a perceptible difference from stepping vs single infusion 64C mash?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Albainian, the stepped mash will give better conversion, I found using this mash always resulted in the lowest final gravity which is what you want in this beer.

You will still make a good beer using a straight infusion just not as well attenuated however I would mash at 63° for 90 minutes.


----------



## 1974Alby

Cheers Andrew...will try the stepped mash....not difficult, just requires a bit more attention. Will be buying come CPA's on way home tonight for the sake of yeast cultureing and comparison purposes.

Also, I am having a play with the excel file you linked from How to Brew and was wondering if you know the target salt values for the water?

Target Water Calcium (ppm) Magnesium (ppm) Alkalinity as CaCO3 Sodium (ppm) Chloride (ppm) Sulfate (ppm)???

Thanks

Al


----------



## AndrewQLD

I'll see if I can dig them out tonight.
To be honest with you I very rarely try to emulate the coopers water profile any more and the beer still turns out great.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Here is the water profile from Coopers Hope valley water supply, mind you it's a few years old.

_Coopers hope valley water_​

*Calcium:* 24.00 ppm
*Sulfate:* 52.00 ppm
*Magnesium:* 16.00
_*Chloride:*_ 121.00 ppm 
*Sodium:* 71.00 ppm
*Bicarbonate:* 70.00 ppm
*PH:* 7.00​
I have another file somewhere that I just can't put my finger on atm with the adjusted figures from coopers, I'll have another look tonight and post if I find them.


----------



## 1974Alby

Made this on the weekend...just left out the salts as I wasn't sure what I was targeting. Aimed for and hit a 1.035 pre-boil OG...then got distracted and boiled for a tad long, ending with a post boil OG of 1.045. Still happy with that though. ..fermenting now @ 16.5C.


----------



## Kingy

think I might have another crack at this soon. I wont be using pellets again as it was a fairly dirty taste and pitch a bigger starter and mash a degree lower to dry it out a bit more as It was a bit to sweet for me in the keg. The couple I bottled where a lot better but probly because of the priming sugar and the fact I was swirling the yeast up as I was swigging on the tallie.
Another thing I remember was when I recultured the yeast, the clear coopers pale that was drunk tasted like shit without the yeasties in there. I much prefer my coopers yeasty. So I may even make a batch to just bottle for when I go elsewhere for a drink or just for times when I feel like necking a tallie.


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## dicko

Kingy said:


> think I might have another crack at this soon. I wont be using pellets again as it was a fairly dirty taste and pitch a bigger starter and mash a degree lower to dry it out a bit more as It was a bit to sweet for me in the keg. The couple I bottled where a lot better but probly because of the priming sugar and the fact I was swirling the yeast up as I was swigging on the tallie.
> Another thing I remember was when I recultured the yeast, the clear coopers pale that was drunk tasted like shit without the yeasties in there. I much prefer my coopers yeasty. So I may even make a batch to just bottle for when I go elsewhere for a drink or just for times when I feel like necking a tallie.


Kingy,

Did you prime it in the keg or did you force carb it?

I have keg primed a CPA and then treat it the way Coopers recomends you treat their real kegs of PA by storing them upside down and then inverting them when you put them on tap.
The CPA yeast is not very flocculent and it will remain in suspension for quite a while unless you are an extremely slow drinker of the keg.
It is a shame that most pubs who serve CPA dont use this method as it improves the beer to no end.


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## Kingy

Hey dicko, i did force carb it in the keg. i may try that next time. Bulk prime the keg and invert for 3 weeks then tip up the right way when serving? Thx for that info, thats a good idea.


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## dicko

When I lived in Arno Bay the Coopers rep at that time advised the publican to store his PA Kegs upside down and then serve them normally.
It was arguably the best draught pale ale that I had ever tasted.
The method also improved his Coopers sales to one of the best figures in the state for a small country pub at that time.


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## Engibeer

Thanks for all the posts and advice gents.

Currently I have a batch of this brewed as per the AG recipe sitting in a cube.

I attempted to reculture a yeast starter using a longneck dated "best after" 24/1/15

Using a stir plate, with 1000mL 1.050 wort straight up, I attempted to re-start the yeast for about 36hrs 

Measured the OG after 36hrs and no activity. Initially I thought there was some activity due to the bubbling.

I just purchased a 375mL dated best after 12/3/15, so much fresher.

Just seeking some advice; starter volume is now ~800mL due to an SG reading I took.

Options:

1. Pitch settled yeast from 375mL straight into this volume
2. Use microwave to sterilise original starter, crash chill again and then pitch settled yeast from stubbie
3. Sterilise starter in microwave, split and step up in smaller increments.
4. Create entirely new starter and set up in smaller increments.


I'm also wondering where the root cause of the issue_ most likely_ lies (I know it would be difficult to highlight definite cause). Old stock? Too large an initial starter volume?


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## Engibeer

Sat the starter out overnight... it started fermenting! It was still quite cool from being in the fridge as well.

Perhaps I had the stir plate on too high? I thought I had read something somewhere about increased osmotic pressure to the yeast on a stir plate?

Digital stir plate V3, with the tacho set at -2 from full RPM.

The krausen is starting to form. Haven't switched the stir plate back on yet.

This has been going since Friday night!


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## lost at sea

thread revival, after 2 years of AG i realised ive never brewed a CPA, what tha? good old faithful of mine before home brewing, so time to get back to my commercial drinking roots.

my only question is, with the CPA being so much about the re-cultured coopers yeast. will cold crashing as would be my standard practice, affect the outcome of my CPA? or do i just keg at ferment temp as to get as much suspended yeast into the keg?

or am i totally way off the mark here?


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## captain crumpet

lost at sea said:


> thread revival, after 2 years of AG i realised ive never brewed a CPA, what tha? good old faithful of mine before home brewing, so time to get back to my commercial drinking roots.
> 
> my only question is, with the CPA being so much about the re-cultured coopers yeast. will cold crashing as would be my standard practice, affect the outcome of my CPA? or do i just keg at ferment temp as to get as much suspended yeast into the keg?
> 
> or am i totally way off the mark here?


 

You want to bulk prime your keg instead of force carbing. Without sediment floating it should still be bright.


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## SwagBiker

I had a go at this recipe (all grain, no sugar) for my most recent brew. 
Coopers has now started offering their own malted barley for homebrewers as their malthouse went online late last year. I can't be certain that the pale malt I used is the exact same as what they use in their PA, but I thought it would be worth a go anyway.
Using a six-pack of bottle yeast and a yeast starter I experience good fermentation but landed on 1008 as FG. I've never been able to get lower than this, so maybe I mashed a little high. 
All in all, this is a great recipe and as a long time CPA fan (it's what I grew up drinking as a teenager) I find this an excellent brew and more fresh than the bottled CPA.
There is something very satisfying with getting such a simple recipe to taste so great. The Coopers yeast makes the simple complex.


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## SwagBiker

As an update to this recipe I went on a tour of Coopers Brewery on Friday. 

I asked a few questions of the tour guide who did know his stuff but I’ll obviousy provide a caveat that he’s not the head brewer, rather a customer relations person.

This is what I learnt for those who’d like to get the closest clone they can to the original that’s on the shelves now.


1- Water.

Coopers draw water from an aquifer below the brewery and use reverse osmosis to desalinate. They then add minerals to achieve a Burton water profile. I didn’t get the specific breakdown of this profile, but online searches yield plenty of results. Honestly, I haven’t started changing my water profile so I didn’t pay as much attention to this point as some others may. Sorry for that.


2- Grain.

Now that Coopers malt their own barley on site and mash with grain only a few days old they have moved to a SMaSH type brew.

The only grain is their Pale Malt and no sugar is added. 

I asked about wheat and any crystal additions. Apparently they used to, which lines up with the mythical “Whiteboard” photo. They used wheat for head retention and apparently about 200kg of crystal for a commercial mash (sorry, I can’t remember the batch size now). In the end the crystal addition was scrapped as it was so insignificant and the wheat scrapped now that they use “the best malt in Australia”. I guess because they can control the malting process so much more now they get the desired result without needing any other grains.


3- Milling

What surprised me the most was the way they mill their grain. Perhaps this isn’t a surprise to others, but it was new to me.

They use a hammer mill that crushes the grain and husks done to a flour. They mash this flour and extract 99% of the available sugars (apparently). Then they run it through a mash filter to separate the spent grain flour. A sparge occurs in the filter and then the wort is run into the kettle. When the sparge water conductivity drops below a set point, the weak wort (ot sparge water) is diverted off to the mash tun as the liquor for the next mash. In this way they get very high total efficiency.


4- Hops

No surprises here. Single addition Pride of Ringwood pellets in the kettle only.


5- Mash Temperatures

This is the step profile that the tour guide said they follow.

58* - protein rest

62* - 30 minutes

68* - 30 minutes

72* - mash out (transfer to mash filter)


6- Fermentation

No surprises here. Coopers yeast that is deliberately stressed to encourage ester production. I didn’t ask fermentation temps as it slipped my mind once the tasting began. We tasted every beer they produce with their logo and one Japanese lager as well, so that really did slow the questioning down a bit.


Anyway, I hope that’s helpful for anyone that was curious and wants to make this beer themselves. Now that Coopers malt is available to us home brewers it’s even easier to get close to this SA favourite.


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## adamthomas

SwagBiker said:


> As an update to this recipe I went on a tour of Coopers Brewery on Friday.
> 
> I asked a few questions of the tour guide who did know his stuff but I’ll obviousy provide a caveat that he’s not the head brewer, rather a customer relations person.
> 
> This is what I learnt for those who’d like to get the closest clone they can to the original that’s on the shelves now.
> 
> 
> 1- Water.
> 
> Coopers draw water from an aquifer below the brewery and use reverse osmosis to desalinate. They then add minerals to achieve a Burton water profile. I didn’t get the specific breakdown of this profile, but online searches yield plenty of results. Honestly, I haven’t started changing my water profile so I didn’t pay as much attention to this point as some others may. Sorry for that.
> 
> 
> 2- Grain.
> 
> Now that Coopers malt their own barley on site and mash with grain only a few days old they have moved to a SMaSH type brew.
> 
> The only grain is their Pale Malt and no sugar is added.
> 
> I asked about wheat and any crystal additions. Apparently they used to, which lines up with the mythical “Whiteboard” photo. They used wheat for head retention and apparently about 200kg of crystal for a commercial mash (sorry, I can’t remember the batch size now). In the end the crystal addition was scrapped as it was so insignificant and the wheat scrapped now that they use “the best malt in Australia”. I guess because they can control the malting process so much more now they get the desired result without needing any other grains.
> 
> 
> 3- Milling
> 
> What surprised me the most was the way they mill their grain. Perhaps this isn’t a surprise to others, but it was new to me.
> 
> They use a hammer mill that crushes the grain and husks done to a flour. They mash this flour and extract 99% of the available sugars (apparently). Then they run it through a mash filter to separate the spent grain flour. A sparge occurs in the filter and then the wort is run into the kettle. When the sparge water conductivity drops below a set point, the weak wort (ot sparge water) is diverted off to the mash tun as the liquor for the next mash. In this way they get very high total efficiency.
> 
> 
> 4- Hops
> 
> No surprises here. Single addition Pride of Ringwood pellets in the kettle only.
> 
> 
> 5- Mash Temperatures
> 
> This is the step profile that the tour guide said they follow.
> 
> 58* - protein rest
> 
> 62* - 30 minutes
> 
> 68* - 30 minutes
> 
> 72* - mash out (transfer to mash filter)
> 
> 
> 6- Fermentation
> 
> No surprises here. Coopers yeast that is deliberately stressed to encourage ester production. I didn’t ask fermentation temps as it slipped my mind once the tasting began. We tasted every beer they produce with their logo and one Japanese lager as well, so that really did slow the questioning down a bit.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I hope that’s helpful for anyone that was curious and wants to make this beer themselves. Now that Coopers malt is available to us home brewers it’s even easier to get close to this SA favourite.





Thank you for finding this out and taking the time to share it. I had been trying to google this exact information last week and put down a SMaSH with their ale grain (1.044og) and por (24ibus) yesterday as I assumed the recipe would of changed now they malt in house. I even adjusted my water close to burtonised profile and step mashed. WLP009 pitched at 18’c. Keen to get some of their pale malt now and see how they compare but the ale malt came out pretty pale on transfer to the fermenter. Will report back in a week or so as to how it’s looking and tasting.


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## MaggieO

Ordered some Cooper's dried yeast and some Pow hops. Going to give this a try.

Can't seems to find Cooper's anywhere in the area. Just going to dive in blind!

Is the Cooper's Australian Pale Ale canned kit similar to the Cooper's Pale Ale canned product. Was thinking of giving it a try but don't want to have 23 liters of it. I usually do ten to twelve liter batches.

Happy brewing!


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## MaggieO

Got my Cooper's yeast and PoR hops today. Now to find some time to brew.

All the Best, 
D. White


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## MaggieO

Got a six pack of Cooper's Pale Ale locally. Has a "Best After" date of 13 December 2019. Paid USD $13.50 for it. Much better beer than any Bud, Miller, Coor's product I ever had. 

Made a starter and pitched the yeast from a couple bottles. It's alive and growing!

Never had a Cooper's Pale Ale before. This has a toasted flavor almost of roast barley which I really like. Is this a product of the yeast or need I toast some pale malt in the oven?


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## MHB

The "Best After" date on Coopers is 2 weeks from bottling, time for it to condition properly and I think they hold it in their warehouse for those two weeks.
Basically its just Ale malt with maybe a smidge of Crystal malt, more for hue correction (more gold than yellow) than for colour.
I suspect if you are used to drinking US mass market beer what you are tasting is malt and yeast flavours, my personal experience of those above is, well the term "canoe beer" comes to mind.
I wouldn't go putting any Roast in the grain bill if you are brewing from grain try 99.5% Ale malt and 0.5% Medium Crystal, if a kit, the Coopers Pale Ale kit should be very close, especially if you use the re-cultured bottle yeast, just watch your ferment temp and pitch rate, get a bit too warm or under pitch and it can throw a lot of banana and other esters which aren't really part of the flavour you would be looking for.
Mark


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## MaggieO

I haven't had a mass market (Bud, Miller, Coor's) US beer in at least ten years, probably longer.

Figured this had to be a fairly simple grain bill. That roasted, toasted flavor is pretty pronounced though, to me at least.


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## MHB

Well it cant be Roast, to get enough Roast into the beer to get a roasty flavour is going to give you a much darker beer.
From the Coopers website only 8 EBC.
Mark


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## pcmfisher

So by adding a small amount of yeast just before packaging mean they have killed off the original yeast and are adding maybe a different strain?


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## Grmblz

pcmfisher said:


> So by adding a small amount of yeast just before packaging mean they have killed off the original yeast and are adding maybe a different strain?



What's interesting with Coopers kits is the included dried yeast, they supply 5 different yeasts (at least the packaging is different) dependant on which kit you buy. 

From their website:

6. What strain of yeast is supplied with with my brew can?
Yeast Strain/s are denoted by the R Product Code on the back of the sachet, beneath the Julian Date Code. The Julian Date Code is the packaged date and is a five-digit format counting the number of days into the year, e.g. for yeast packaged on the 11th of March 2020 = 70th day of 2020, it will display as 07020.

Summary:


C – R007 = Coopers ale yeast. Our own strain, which was developed in-house, *but it is not the same strain as the yeast in our commercial ales???*


C+L – R3426 = A blend of our Coopers ale yeast and a lager strain.


A – R3554/R3555/R3557/R3559 = various ale yeasts*


L – R3422/R3556 = various lager yeasts*


W – R3558 = wheat yeast*
_These strains are commercially available dry yeasts and their details are held in confidence. Listed below against each brewing extract, we’ve detailed the yeast type, then the R Product Code, followed by an example Julian Date Code in brackets._

Detailed Information:

_Original Series_


C – R007 (07020)
_International Series_


Australian Pale Ale: C+L – R3426 (07020)
Mexican Cerveza: C+L – R3426 (07020)
European Lager: L – R3422 (07020)
Canadian Blonde: C – R007 (07020)
English Bitter: C – R007 (07020)
Irish Stout: A – R3554 (07020)
_Thomas Cooper's Series_


Bootmaker Pale Ale: A – R3559 (07020)
Brew A IPA: A – R3559 (07020)
Devil's Half Ruby Porter: A – R3557 (07020)
Family Secret Amber Ale: A – R3559 (07020)
Innkeeper's Daughter Sparkling Ale: A – R3555 (07020)
Preacher's Hefe Wheat: W – R3558 (07020)
86 Days Pilsner: L – R3556 (07020)
_Mr Beer Craft Series_

All of the Mr Beer Brewing Extracts use the C+L blend. The Julian Date Code is the only code listed on the sachet.


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## An Ankoù

MHB said:


> Well it cant be Roast, to get enough Roast into the beer to get a roasty flavour is going to give you a much darker beer.
> From the Coopers website only 8 EBC.
> Mark
> View attachment 117744


I had a go at making some of this. We occasionally get Cooper's beers through Saveur Bière here in sunny Brittany, and I prefer the OPA to the Sparkling Ale (red label). Didn't have all the information that MHB posted, above, so had to guess.
Made up culture from a bottle of OPA and Sparkling (presumed they used the same yeast). Worked towards 4.5% abv, but having no idea of the attenuation properties of this yeast, I went for an OG of 1045. IBUs at 24, ok, but used Vic Secret instead of PoR (wrong guess!) and barley malt at 5.5 ebc.
It came out all right: my notes on 14th Feb "No great shakes. Drinkable, but not brilliant"; on 10th March "Much better. Thinking of doing another".
A couple of questions:
Is the yeast in the bottles likely to be the yeast they use for fermentation or is it likely to be a bottling yeast.
Pale malt at EBC is pretty dark. I'd be tempted to substitute Bestmalz (Heidelberg, Germany) Vienna malt at 8ebc. This might give the toasty flavour @MaggieO talks about, above. Any thoughts?
Right, off to look for some bottles of OPA and get some PoR hops. Would welcome any pointers on this one. Thanks in advance.


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## MHB

I'm pretty sure the bottling yeast is the same as that used in the main ferment, apparently they use the same house yeast in all the Coopers beers (well the traditional ones - Pale Ale, Sparkling Ale, Mid, Dark and Stout - not so sure about some of their newer offerings).
Point to remember about the colour of a malt (EBC) is that it is the measured colour of a congress mash, that is in wort made at a water to grain (L:G) ratio of 8:1, yielding a wort around 8oP (~1.032) so it will always be a darker at normal brewing gravities and will darken more during boiling.
Once upon a time Coopers used almost exclusively Schooner malt, which is harder to get these days and interesting in that it will almost always give you the same wort (like Coopers) no matter what you do with it.
Given where you are, I would lean more toward a UK Ale malt than a German one, the heritage of Coopers is very English, Perl or Golden Promise would be good choices. 
The Hops are bittering only, if you have any problems getting POR, Target would be a good call, any of a bunch of other favour neutral hops would serve, they aren't there for flavour just bitterness.

As an aside, I discovered Coopers in my late teens (end of the 1970's) and am still drinking it, I would have drunk more Coopers than all other beers added together, its had its ups and downs over that time but its still an estimable beer, well worth putting something like it on tap at home, easy to drink, pleases most people (certainly me), a beer that improves over time, up to years in bottle.
Mark


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## An Ankoù

MHB said:


> I'm pretty sure the bottling yeast is the same as that used in the main ferment, apparently they use the same house yeast in all the Coopers beers (well the traditional ones - Pale Ale, Sparkling Ale, Mid, Dark and Stout - not so sure about some of their newer offerings).
> Point to remember about the colour of a malt (EBC) is that it is the measured colour of a congress mash, that is in wort made at a water to grain (L:G) ratio of 8:1, yielding a wort around 8oP (~1.032) so it will always be a darker at normal brewing gravities and will darken more during boiling.
> Once upon a time Coopers used almost exclusively Schooner malt, which is harder to get these days and interesting in that it will almost always give you the same wort (like Coopers) no matter what you do with it.
> Given where you are, I would lean more toward a UK Ale malt than a German one, the heritage of Coopers is very English, Perl or Golden Promise would be good choices.
> The Hops are bittering only, if you have any problems getting POR, Target would be a good call, any of a bunch of other favour neutral hops would serve, they aren't there for flavour just bitterness. either in the
> 
> Mark


Thanks Mark, I'll bear all that in mind. I was a bit dubious at using all Vienna. I normally get my supplies from the UK as, even with freight factored in, it's much cheaper than buying it in Europe. After an hour's searching, I can't find anyone who sells PoR either in the UK or in France/Belgium/Netherlands. So I'll see if I can get a quote from an Australian supplier or take your advice about the Target. Thanks again.


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## matt77

Just did one of these on sunday..
Only now reading your recipe... i forgot the whirlfloc... DOH


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## MaggieO

MaggieO said:


> Got my Cooper's yeast and PoR hops today. Now to find some time to brew.
> 
> All the Best,
> D. White



Bottled this up today. Made 3.5 U.S. gallons. OG 1.046. FG 1.006. I think the color is a little dark for a clone. ABV is a bit high too at 5.25%.

Used a 1/2 pound of malt I toasted in the oven for 10 minutes at 350F. Think I got the "toasted" flavor I was looking for.

Only had a few teaspoons of built up yeast from the starter I made from the bottle. Pitched the starter yeast and let it roll for eight hours. Then ptched a full pack of Coopers brewing yeast.

Interested to see where this is in three weeks.

MO


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