# Your best excuse for not going AG



## Ducatiboy stu (7/6/15)

Give us your best excuse for why you dont AG..


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## mofox1 (7/6/15)

'Cos CBC got ma monie.

Oooh - Too soon?


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## goomboogo (7/6/15)

Because I live in the city.


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## Adr_0 (7/6/15)

This sounds like it's going to be a productive thread...


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## Yob (7/6/15)

... heads off for pop corn and beer..

Space is probably the biggest reason for folks, but with the advent of Grainfathers and single vessel units easy enough to build.. its not a great excuse..

Time is the other, but again, timers can greatly decrease the requirement on a brewday day so again, not a great excuse.

complacency is probably the only one that doesnt have a good work around and Im tipping that there will be many with a ticket on that cruise


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## luggy (7/6/15)

I didn't have one, hence why I brew all grain


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## Matt Browne (7/6/15)

For me it's a disability where I physically can't stand for long periods of time. I have brewed AG but have gone back to kits and bits, easier, quicker and far less physically demanding.


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## Danscraftbeer (7/6/15)

You do it because you can. But if you don't get bored of that can brew/extracts results then all good.
I simple cant get the same results of my best beers using extract. Its always higher final gravity.
Try getting FG as low as 1.002 5%abv with extract malt without using sugar. No way I'd reckon.
Not without using some freaky chemical additive.
$0.02


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## eMPTy (7/6/15)

Space provided for brewing by family.


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## Yob (7/6/15)

What sort of beer do you want to get to 1.002? That's practically water..

Ypu can get extract that low easily, dry enzyme or champagne yeast.


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## MartinOC (7/6/15)

Fear of the unknown? ...until you do it. Rather like nude skydiving, really.... h34r:


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## Goose (7/6/15)

MartinOC said:


> Fear of the unknown? ...until you do it. Rather like nude skydiving, really.... h34r:


I think you better check out the funny video section at the bottom of the forum ...LOL


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## MartinOC (7/6/15)

Huh? Point me....?


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## TSMill (7/6/15)

Matt Browne said:


> For me it's a disability where I physically can't stand for long periods of time.


Drunkenness is a side effect, not an excuse.


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## jyo (7/6/15)

When I first read about doing All Grain, I became a bit apprehensive at first because you have to be naked to do it.

I'm cool with it now.


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## Goose (7/6/15)

MartinOC said:


> Huh? Point me....?


err, not sure if I'm allowed.

however, http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/56598-funny-videos-any-topic/page-17

post 334


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## Ducatiboy stu (7/6/15)

eMPTy said:


> Space provided for brewing by family.


Get a smaller family.

All that fluffy stuff like the wife and kids....meh...build yourself an AG rig an man up. ...and show your kids how brewing is really done.


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## timmi9191 (7/6/15)

If you dont AG you are...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khp1JLUbblQ


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## panzerd18 (7/6/15)

Cost of equipment for ease of use. Saving for the Grainfather.


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## MitchD (7/6/15)

All of the extra calories


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## Black Devil Dog (7/6/15)

I didn't come up with reasons not to, I came up with reasons to go ag.


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## TheWiggman (7/6/15)

The brewing book which I got for father's day a few years ago (which my wife has regretted to this day) summed it up pretty well.

1. Kits - quick, easy, repeatable, hard to get wrong. Limited styles, will never taste like the real thing
2. Extract - more styles available, better beer, more margin for error
3. AG - world at your fingertips, more things to go wrong

It takes a lot longer and requires more effort. Much easier to get things wrong. So the best excuse would be "I'm not willing to jump in at the deep end because I'm happy swimming up here with floaties and I like the water". 
No excuse.


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## Danscraftbeer (7/6/15)

I love extract, every now and then. Just put down a 19lt brew (Coopers Pale Ale).
15 minute boil with 400g Honey and 600g Dextrose.
20g Pride Of Ringwood pellets for 10 minutes.
30g Pride of Ringwood pellets Dry Hop sock in keg.

It'll be farken good I know it. Then I'll recycle the beast of the yeast cake for - who knows?


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## Grott (8/6/15)

To be honest its the cost of the gear. I've just gone over to kegging and as I choose to go with 9.5 and 12 litre kegs, have spent over $600 on that alone! I'm happy with what I brew now, love the Coopers English Bitter (general quaffer) with slight adjustments. I do partials for bottled stouts and porters.
Cheers


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## HBHB (8/6/15)

Not trying to be a party pooper, but people don't need to find an excuse.

Kits are brewed by professionals with excellent resources and largely from grain. The hard work is done and if thought is put into the recipe, the sanitation and the temperature control then the results can be outstanding. 

These days you can make anything from a simple lager through rauchbier to an imperial IPA with either kits or extracts. Lots of Specialty grains can be steeped and further improvements made to foam and flavour. 

Add all that to a virtually endless list oh hop varieties available here and there's probably not too many beers you couldn't make.

It suits the folk who would prefer the hard work be done beforehand. Kind of like people who prefer to buy mass produced lasagne from the supermarkets.

Grain Brewers get the opportunity to manipulate their body, foam, flavour and aroma a bit more at a lower price but with more precision and end up with a greater sense of pride at the end of the day.

Interestingly, most of our grain brewers are really busy people, many have young families and a fair number of them work incredibly long hours (some of our local Brewers work in excess of 70 hrs a week - pretty sure it's a common theme) and live with space and financial restrictions. They're all barriers, but they choose to not make them "excuses" because for grain brewers, it's not so much about the barriers, but the escape that grain brewing provides them with. A little, very satisfying "something" they can fit in around business, family and domestic demands. 

Each to their own. Everyone has their reasons, but they don't need to be turned into excuses.


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## jyo (8/6/15)

grott said:


> To be honest its the cost of the gear. I've just gone over to kegging and as I choose to go with 9.5 and 12 litre kegs, have spent over $600 on that alone! I'm happy with what I brew now, love the Coopers English Bitter (general quaffer) with slight adjustments. I do partials for bottled stouts and porters.
> Cheers


Grott, if you're worried about cost, and don't mind a bit of ghetto, it can be done really cheap. I started with a free esky, $80 for a copper manifold and fittings for the mash tun, a cheapo $50, 40 litres stanless steel pot from the Asian grocer and a second hand 3 ring burner with a decent regulator, silicone hose and some cubes. Probably spent $200 all up.


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## SBOB (8/6/15)

jyo said:


> Grott, if you're worried about cost, and don't mind a bit of ghetto, it can be done really cheap. I started with a free esky, $80 for a copper manifold and fittings for the mash tun, a cheapo $50, 40 litres stanless steel pot from the Asian grocer and a second hand 3 ring burner with a decent regulator, silicone hose and some cubes. Probably spent $200 all up.


or ~$200-$300 on a 40L urn and a few bucks on a grain bag for less ghetto


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## JDW81 (8/6/15)

goomboogo said:


> Because I live in the city.


I used to brew 3V all grain in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment. Gear lived under the spare bed, and I fermented in the spare toilet (which wasn't used during fermentation I assure you).

Space is no limitation for getting into AG.


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## Brooa (8/6/15)

I think this is the ONLY HONESTreply in this thread so far : I can't be [email protected]$#@D.


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## TheWiggman (8/6/15)

HBHB said:


> Interestingly, most of our grain brewers are really busy people, many have young families and a fair number of them work incredibly long hours (some of our local Brewers work in excess of 70 hrs a week - pretty sure it's a common theme) and live with space and financial restrictions. They're all barriers, but they choose to not make them "excuses" because for grain brewers, it's not so much about the barriers, but the escape that grain brewing provides them with. A little, very satisfying "something" they can fit in around business, family and domestic demands.


I agree very much with this. I have a fairly demanding job, 3 kids between 4 and 5 (twins), hockey every weekend and most spare time is family time. Life's bloody busy. However, AG brewing keeps me sane. It's good to boil up a yeast starter on a weeknight, check up on gravity and temps of whatever's fermenting, or do minor mods to my kit (eg. yesterday I fitted a plug to my HLT instead of hard wired lead). My mind's always ticking about improving my temp controller or some sort of upgrade - not that's it's required in any way mind you - and that's what I love doing. Brew days are Wiggman's escape. They only happen every few weeks and are a good opportunity to invite some mates around to talk about beer or anything. Everyone needs time for themselves, spouse included. Plus the quality of my beer has gone forward in leaps and bounds, which I remind myself most afternoons when I pour a glass to enjoy with dinner or just sit down and enjoy the glass. Or read up on the latest dramatic AHB thread.


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## Grott (8/6/15)

jyo said:


> Grott, if you're worried about cost, and don't mind a bit of ghetto, it can be done really cheap. I started with a free esky, $80 for a copper manifold and fittings for the mash tun, a cheapo $50, 40 litres stanless steel pot from the Asian grocer and a second hand 3 ring burner with a decent regulator, silicone hose and some cubes. Probably spent $200 all up.





SBOB said:


> or ~$200-$300 on a 40L urn and a few bucks on a grain bag for less ghetto


Your right guys but even that amount will have to be a 2016 budget. Remember I've also spent on a gas bottle, reg, tap, hoses etc etc. even SWMBO doesn't quite know the full extent, so no more this year.
Cheers


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## MCW (9/6/15)

Try living in Darwin where the brew store is sub standard to say the least. They stock no grain and the cost to ship from the east coast pretty much doubles the price. Ah the price of yr round 30 degrees.


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## Pogierob (9/6/15)

I have no excuse, none at all since I have gone BIAB.


Even now when I'm busy and claim I don't have time to brew, I find i have suddenly spent a few hours watching a shit movie I've already seen - could have been brewing.

I also found myself saying it's too expensive to buy all the gear, and BANG a birthday arrived and the lovely lady had conspired with friends and family and i found myself with a few hundred dollars to spend at the LHBS - hello crown urn.
lets not mention all the money I was spending on commercial beer while I couldn't afford the gear.
Everything else I buy bit by bit until I have what I need to do the job.

sure it takes longer, it takes longer to clean up and you need a larger storage area, but there is just something bloody awesome about saying - yeah I'm a homebrewer, no not the kits, I actually make it from scratch with grain, yeah yeah oh and I grow hops in the backyard, sure come around and have a couple one day..


so my best excuse for not going AG will most likely be - it's just really tricky to mash in, get to the AA meeting and then get back in time for the boil.  :lol:


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## clickeral (9/6/15)

Haven't managed to get my mill and motor mounted up fully yet and its in my mates garage with all my brewing gear so in the too hard basket till the end of the month haha

Buying a house end of the year start of next so will sort something more permanent then along with a 50L BM 

Probably get a 15amp 20amp and 32amp plug installed in the garage as I need all the power for various hobbies 

Also if I go back to all grain I need to finish my esky mash tun and get my kegerator setup again (wanting new lines connections and 650ss perlics)


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## Rocker1986 (9/6/15)

I don't have one anymore as I do brew AG exclusively and have done for nearly 3 years.

Before that, the only reason I didn't do it sooner was money. I was flat broke at the time until I got my current job. I wanted an urn so I could do BIAB; pot and gas or 3V never appealed to me and still doesn't. Once I had enough money that was it, jumped straight into it and haven't looked back.

I can appreciate that some people are too busy to commit the time, but on the other hand if you really have a passion for brewing quality beer then that becomes the predominant hobby and you make the time for it over lesser interests.

The actual process of brewing all grain is not as difficult as people make it out to be. If you can heat some water, throw in some crushed grains, maintain a temperature for an hour or so, then boil the resultant liquid and add hops to it, and throw it into a plastic cube afterwards, you can brew all grain. Crude description, but it is that simple. Recipe formulation is the tricky part, so brew a few tried and true recipes first if unsure. Difficulty of process itself is no excuse in my opinion.


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## lael (9/6/15)

Ibwas intimidated before I started all grain, and this is the simplest and most effective description. It really is - heat water, throw in grain, maintain temp. There's a lot of technique that can make differences, but the first time I saw an all grain brew day it was like... Huh... That's simple. 



Rocker1986 said:


> I don't have one anymore as I do brew AG exclusively and have done for nearly 3 years.
> 
> Before that, the only reason I didn't do it sooner was money. I was flat broke at the time until I got my current job. I wanted an urn so I could do BIAB; pot and gas or 3V never appealed to me and still doesn't. Once I had enough money that was it, jumped straight into it and haven't looked back.
> 
> ...


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/6/15)

My stainless steel mill rollers have gone rusty from lack of use....


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/6/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> The actual process of brewing all grain is not as difficult as people make it out to be. If you can heat some water, throw in some crushed grains, maintain a temperature for an hour or so, then boil the resultant liquid and add hops to it, and throw it into a plastic cube afterwards, you can brew all grain. Crude description, but it is that simple. Recipe formulation is the tricky part, so brew a few tried and true recipes first if unsure.* Difficulty of process itself is no excuse in my opinion.*


 B)


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/6/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> Difficulty of process itself is no excuse in my opinion.


Why do brewers see it as a difficult process.....?


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## eMPTy (9/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Get a smaller family.
> 
> All that fluffy stuff like the wife and kids....meh...build yourself an AG rig an man up. ...and show your kids how brewing is really done.


Haha. Not quite that problem yet. I'm stuck living with parents while i finish my degrees. Can only convince them slowly, step by step that each extra piece of equipment or storage space is a necessity and they should let/help me make room for it.

I'll get there soon hopefully.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/6/15)

eMPTy said:


> . I'm stuck living with parents while i finish my degrees.


Living the <insert politician> dream

10 REM Politics and beer are a bad combination
20 if not Labour GOTO 30
30 If not Liberal GOTO 20


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## Kingy (10/6/15)

Turn the tv off its toxic. Get down the shed and get creative and use your brain instead of making excuses while being hypnotized by the square box. 
My latest creative ideas are some thermals to wear outside on cold nights so i can still do things when i get home and its dark and cold and gum boots so i don't get wet cold feet when cleaning brew related things. The smallest things just to make the day more enjoyable. 
Money is definately an excuse for upgrades but picking up little things along the way is better as you get to study up longer on what you really want need.


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## Matplat (10/6/15)

On my last brew, I was weighing up doing it BIAB split between two pots as that is the equipment I have at the moment.

However I decided to stick with extract for two reasons

1) I have 13kg DME in stock
2) Even if I were to buy the grain in bulk, the cost of the grain is not much less than using all DME i.e. $13 for grain vs $16.50 for DME, add on top of that the extra time taken and the fact that the brew in question tastes awesome anyway. It's hard to justify.

That being said, I'm fairly sure that I will end up doing AG at some point, it seems like a lot of fun.... maybe when my two month old is less demanding!


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## Killer Brew (10/6/15)

I can't find a good excuse not to AG and I'm well along the way to being there with a number of partials under my belt. Am looking around now for a bigger pot so I can BIAB then it will be game on. Slightly OT but the one change I can't seem to justify to myself is moving from bottling to kegging....that shit be expensive!


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## quantum8 (10/6/15)

Lack of space here.

Probably something to do with having too many other hobbies that demand space!


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## Matplat (10/6/15)

Killer Brew said:


> I can't find a good excuse not to AG and I'm well along the way to being there with a number of partials under my belt. Am looking around now for a bigger pot so I can BIAB then it will be game on. Slightly OT but the one change I can't seem to justify to myself is moving from bottling to kegging....that shit be expensive!


this looks like a good option:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-COMMERCIAL56L-STAINLESS-STEEL-STOCK-POT-SAUCE-SET-/171784346667?


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/6/15)

Yeah I am not much for kegs. Prefer bottles. If I have a few brews under my belt then it means I have a wider selection to choose from, rather than having to have just what is in the keg(s)


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## pcmfisher (10/6/15)

K&K makes better beer. h34r:


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## Killer Brew (10/6/15)

Matplat said:


> this looks like a good option:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-COMMERCIAL56L-STAINLESS-STEEL-STOCK-POT-SAUCE-SET-/171784346667?


Wowser! Thanks for that. I wonder if the walls are strong enough to add a tap.


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## Yob (10/6/15)

Matplat said:


> On my last brew, I was weighing up doing it BIAB split between two pots as that is the equipment I have at the moment.
> 
> However I decided to stick with extract for two reasons
> 
> ...


buying grain by the sack (25kg) is vastly cheaper than the equivalent DME


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## Tahoose (11/6/15)

Rob.P said:


> so my best excuse for not going AG will most likely be - it's just really tricky to mash in, get to the AA meeting and then get back in time for the boil.  :lol:


You need to looks at a semi automated setup haha go HERMs!


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## pist (11/6/15)

There's a couple of reasons I can think of why some might not want to venture into AG.
Time, cost of setup (things like stock pots and burners or even urns are not cheap if your aiming to go full volume) and space I think are all valid reasons.
I went AG as I just couldn't produce a beer that I was happy drinking, even after mucking about with steeping grains and hops.
Haven't looked back since. There are ways to address the time constraint issue though. Jump straight into double batches with no chilling and this gets you more beer for the same amount of time invested = less brewing.


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## Matplat (11/6/15)

Yob said:


> buying grain by the sack (25kg) is vastly cheaper than the equivalent DME


Can you back that up with actual figures? I've read people saying the cost of grain is $7-8 for a brew and I've looked into sourcing it to get that cost but the best I can come up with is this:

To achieve let's say a 1.050 wort you use around 5kg of ale malt? (i'm guessing here as I obviously don't AG) and to keep things cheap I'l use barrett burston ale malt bought for $65 from my LHBS per 25kg sack which works out to $13.

In the other corner I've bought 20kg DME from Ross for $110 of which I need approx 3kg to get to 1.050 which costs $16.50.

If it can be done significantly cheaper, please enlighten me as I would love to add weight to the argument for going AG! 

Cheers, Matt


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## Yob (11/6/15)

Sure I can.. Quality of the wort aside from DME V's Grain extract.. and thats a _*big *_aside IMO... it really does depend a great deal on the grains you buy, sure, JW goes for what? $45 a sack.. $9 for a base beer.

Its not really about that though for me, I step mash and can target any sort of wort I like with bugger all stuffing about or changing any process other than adjusting a digital temperature controller, I rarely use any spec malts, I can mostly get what I want from a mash and boil, except of course for darker styles. I tend to only buy by the sack these days for base malts, specialties I'll still get by the kilo if I'm doing something like a black IPA or a RIS or whatever I cant do with a mash / boil profile.

It was one of the reasons I jumped right into AG from Kits and bits, I was doing partials anyway and the step wasn't a large one.. well.. ok.. the step to HERMS was a decent one, but more so just in my understanding than anything else and since I had the desire to make better wort/beer, it was easily justifiable, I kept doing my partials (which were a pretty damn fine drop in their own right as I recall) while I built my rig and my understanding of process.

as said before, I still throw the odd kit brew in.. experiments etc.. turns out fine (if lacking a little body)


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## Matplat (11/6/15)

Hmmmm, they key point there is that you're able to buy grain for $20 per sack less than I am... i may yet make the jump but i think the main reason to do so will be to remove limitations on what i can brew. I would love to make an Oktoberfest but can't get no Munich extract at a reasonable price!


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## Markbeer (13/6/15)

I all grain. But all graining once started can be a slippery slope.

Biggest excuse for not going AG is the beer variety you can make is that large, the quality that high that temptation can ultimately get the better of you.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/15)

Markbeer said:


> I all grain. But all graining once started can be a slippery slope.
> 
> Biggest excuse for not going AG is the beer variety you can make is that large, the quality that high that temptation can ultimately get the better of you.


NEVER


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## Goose (13/6/15)

where I live , malt costs 7$ /kg and hops cost $180 /kg.

why would I do AG ?


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## slcmorro (13/6/15)

Jeepers. Where do you live?


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## Yob (13/6/15)

Singapore?


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## Pogierob (13/6/15)

Matplat said:


> Can you back that up with actual figures? I've read people saying the cost of grain is $7-8 for a brew and I've looked into sourcing it to get that cost but the best I can come up with is this:
> 
> To achieve let's say a 1.050 wort you use around 5kg of ale malt? (i'm guessing here as I obviously don't AG) and to keep things cheap I'l use barrett burston ale malt bought for $65 from my LHBS per 25kg sack which works out to $13.
> 
> ...


http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/search?search=traditional+ale

buy over 20kg and you get it for $1.90 per KG

usually a few dollars cheaper(per 25kg sack) than that in bulk buys also.
so for a 5kg batch you are looking at $9.50 by my calculations you are saving $7

this isn't Barrett Burston, but they are similarly priced in Bulk buys within a couple of gold coins for a 25kg sack.

see below an example of prices from the most recent Bulk buy 

2015Melb Barrett Burston Pale 25 $1.80 $45.00
2023Melb Barrett Burston Ale 25 $1.80 $45.00 
2018Melb Barrett Burston Wheat 25 $2.20 $55.00
2020Melb Barrett Burston Caramalt 25 $2.36 $59.00


Edit. added bulk buy prices


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## Dunkelbrau (14/6/15)

grott said:


> Your right guys but even that amount will have to be a 2016 budget. Remember I've also spent on a gas bottle, reg, tap, hoses etc etc. even SWMBO doesn't quite know the full extent, so no more this year.
> Cheers


Well, for a technicality the (2015/)2016 financial year is only a few weeks away ;-)


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## Grott (14/6/15)

good point but not in our house
Cheers


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## Matplat (14/6/15)

Rob.P said:


> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/search?search=traditional+ale
> 
> buy over 20kg and you get it for $1.90 per KG
> 
> ...


Il have to look in to the cost of shipping from grain and grape, CraftBrewer is significantly closer to me, but still sells sacks of BB ale malt for $65 same as my LHBS...


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## Matplat (14/6/15)

Currently half way through a glass of extract nelson sauvin pale ale... not convincing me that AG is necessary


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/6/15)

Matplat said:


> Currently half way through a glass of extract nelson sauvin pale ale... not convincing me that AG is necessary


Time....it will only take time....


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## mikeintmba (14/6/15)

For me the reason for not going AG was a frame of mind. I simply believed making beer the real way was too hard. I spent 20 years making kit beer then finding this forum. The ideas here got me adding malt and hops to kits then making a beer from extract and hops. Now I BIAB and sometimes lament the time a brew can take but I enjoy the beer I make and the price per litre is fantastic.
Cheers


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