# Yeast Slurry



## big d (21/11/03)

right im still not sure about this one yet.
i take a cup or so from the secondary of yeast slurry after racking store it in a sterile container in the fridge and when ready within reason pitch this slurry into my new brew instead of a yeast starter .i believe you can really maximise your original liquid yeast this way.
trouble is ive also read of many ways to get the good yeast seperated from the bad /dead yeast cells.

thanks for the earlier advice jayse.

ive got a small beaker of wyeast american ale 2 sitting in the fridge from 2 days ago so would appreciated any extra advice or what not to do.
im in no hurry to pitch this yeast i reckon it will be my experimental version first so doesnt matter if i just stuff around with it some what.

cheers
big d


----------



## jayse (22/11/03)

i use the slurry almost as you would a dry yeast.
just make a well airated starter with it when you start you brewing.
for me thats 5 hours before pitching.
iam sure it would work alright pitching it straight in. but for a little extra work making a starter you can 'prove' it and be more confident of getting the attenuation your after and a quick start to fermention.
also the yeast would be actively in the growth stage due to the air and gravity of the starter which matches the conditions of your airated wort.

So basically make a starter the morning your gunna brew.
this is my favourite way to do my starters. No need to prepare a starter a few days ahead.


----------



## johnno (22/11/03)

jayse and big d,

I was just wondering how long you can keep the slurry for? I have kept some before in the fridge for about 5 weeks. It smelt ok but I didnt use it at that time as I wasn't sure what the results would be.
I used one last week that was only 4 days old (abot 500 ml) and that worked out ok.
Has anyone kept and used slurry for longer periods of time??

cheers
B)


----------



## Doc (22/11/03)

I was going through my stubbies of yeast cultures last night as I was making up starters for next weeks brewing.
At the back of the fridge I found two stubbies of WLP001 Calif Ale Yeast dated Nov 02. 
I thought they would be a bit old and hard to get going so I grabbed both and let them warm up to room temp.
I then made my stater solution, opened the stubbies and much to my surprise and my wifes amusement there was life in those starters. 
I must have split them into stubbies while there was still some activity. When I say there was life, they were almost volcanoes.
So those starters are away and running 12 months later.
They looked smelled and tasted fine, so as long as they are in 4 days as well I'll be using them.

Beers,
Doc


----------



## Batz (22/11/03)

OK
So if I use say a wyeast , rack into secondary and then, I could bottle several stubbies of slurry ?
You would have to be very careful of infection


----------



## JasonY (22/11/03)

I read somewhere if you are going to collect slurry the primary is a better spot as you will be getting the more flocculent yeast in your starters. That said I grab some slurry from the primary in small plastic coke bottles and bung it in the fridge. I don't bother trying to seperate the gunk.

Also with this latest 1272 batch I am using, I have just been saving two small coke bottle starters from my starters each time also so I haven't actually had to collect from the primary yet (up to my 4th & 5th starters now).

As to time in the fridge I have used from up to 3 months old with no probs. I always taste a bit of the starter before pitching to prevent disasters. If your propagating your yeast like this I would always make a starter and taste it in case you have an infection.


----------



## Trough Lolly (22/11/03)

Dumb Question time:

Am I correct in assuming that you guys strain out the hop matter when you pour the wort out of the boiler into the fermenter so that the bulk of the slurry is yeast?

When I rack to secondary, the yeast cake sometimes has a fair bit of hops sitting on top (using pellets and plugs here) - ie, I don't strain the hops off the wort when I put my brews down and use an inline filter (as per GMK's specs) when I move the wort into secondary fermentation/conditioning. Obviously I don't want to have hops in with the yeast in the slurry bottles. :huh: 

So do you strain out the hops when you initially ferment your wort in primary and thus have relatively easy access to the yeast cake?

Cheers,

TL


----------



## JasonY (22/11/03)

TL, very little hops make it to my primary. My tap is a couple of inches from the bottom of the boiler so getting 90% of the wort without trub is easy, if I really want as much as I can I put a tea towel in a strainer and pass what more I can get through it. I'm sure some stuff makes it but its not very visible so it can't be enough to worry about.


----------



## wedge (22/11/03)

guys i thought you had to be very careful with the slurry. If your not you can accidently cultivate a mutated yeast cell. I think the dave palmer book talks about this. :unsure: 

i think this is the same reason you can only cultivate your wyeast so many times. Is this true. 

Wedge :chug:


----------



## Batz (23/11/03)

That's what I was getting at wedge , sounds good idea if it's safe


----------



## jayse (23/11/03)

Johnno
like doc's post it should be good for sometime. Keep it in the fridge though.

Batz and wedge
The big mega breweries ussually are happy with keeping the yeast going from batch to batch for up to five times without any mutations.
If your where to study a brewing degree, i think the best method is to take some from the top of the primary.
Most breweries with big conicals just take from the bottom.
Ussually after five you go back to some of the original slurry you have kept.

also Wedge, palmer also says rinsing with tap water is the biggest problem in brewing.
WHAT are you kidding you must be using a very bad water supply.
I think he must be talkng in extreme cases like high brew temps and poor airation and nutrients.
all of which you will taste in the brew.

troughlolly
i only whirlpool so some hop matter may get in. i have to filter with whole hops or they clog the cfc line etc.
when i have used the primary i have left it as it is, no washing etc.
although this would not be the best method at all. it works great.
it depends what sort of beer in the primary and the next beer. iam just doing the same beer.

Jasony
I don't find the less floculation to be a problem. with 1272 it is properly even better.
i have kept 1272 going for 6 batches from one to the next with awesome results. The last batch still cleared up the same and didn't show any signs of the yeast changing.




Do the slurry method it rocks.
it should be possible to get a whole year out of one yeast pack.
with my method i can easily get 20 brews from one pack. but generally don't worry about getting that many. Just to be safe if i have got my moneys worth out of a pack then i get another.
iam happy with only getting 5 brews out of one pack.
thats not to say i couldn't get 20. 
you could do 20 stubbies with the first slurry and easily get 20 brews with out growing from one to the next.


----------



## wedge (23/11/03)

no offence tended Batz

Wedge h34r:


----------



## Batz (23/11/03)

None taken h34r: h34r: 
:blink: :blink:


----------



## GMK (24/11/03)

Yeast slurry

i know of a micro brewery that uses the yeast slurry upto 16 times.

Lately, due to time constraints - i have been using the following.

Brewed an IPA with coopers and liquid 1048 Irish Ale Yeast.
Racked to secondary with hops - lots of.
Made a Dark Ale - .pitch yeast cake from secondary straight into primary and aerated. Bubbling in 35mins

Racked and dry hoppped. Made up a Pilsner - pitch yeast cake from secondary straight into primary and aerated. Bubbling in 35mins.

Note:
Hops left in from secondary.
Both brews kegged and taste nice.
Cant wait to see what happens to the pilsner.
Will Rack and dry hop friday.

Will then use yeast slurry for the stout.

Who wants to come over and try?


----------



## Gout (24/11/03)

Do you find going from light beer to dark works best or it doesn't matter.

eg would stout to pilsner work? or impart a dark flavour in you light pilsner

might have to put down another ale on this America ale yeast.... idea's guys 

I dont want to do pale ale over and over or i will get sick of it. (and have the same beer on all 3 taps  )

jasye where is your A1 grain porter nice and choch like James S porter.


----------



## GMK (24/11/03)

Ben,

Try doing an APA or a steam beer or an American Brown Ale.


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (8/3/04)

Would just like to reinforce this method as long as your sterilization methods are good.

I pitched 1/3rd of a cup of slurry into a 25 litre brew yesterday. This was at 3 pm.
At 6 am this morning the beer had a 2 inch krausen on it.

I always wash my slurry several times in cool boiled water. I am going to start acid washing soon.

Cheers and bollocks
TDA


----------



## Murray (8/3/04)

I crop from the top and keep the yeast slurry. I use the top yeast for making cultures and storing, I use the slurry for the next brew. I like to use the top yeast for culturing as I'm more confident they are clean and relatively pure.


----------



## Goat (8/3/04)

TDA - could you flesh out your comment "...wash my slurry several times in cool boiled water". What does this entail? thanks.


----------



## johnno (8/3/04)

Keep in mind I am still a very young brewer still. But I have been keen to experiment. At the chance of losing a brew. But so far none lost.I' ve reused yeast a few times now and its worked fine. 
I tend to save whataever is left over in the secondary,fridge it and make a starter when needed. One day I intend washing it.
I was going to get some Liquid yeast for the next brew but time ran out so i had to use some of the yeast I used in the Coopers SParkling Ale.
Actually this one i started last Sturday week and stepped it up about Wednesday.
I had to use it yesterday and was thinking that it might be off or need wort to activate it as it had stopped working. Thats 8 days in a coke bottle. I was taking a chance I suppose but it smelt and tasted fine so i just went for it.
Well it had a top krausen this morning and its bubbling like mad now.
Getting some liquid yeast tommorow and i'll make afew sarters out of that. I'll probably get the AMerican Ale 1056 and lots of cascade hops as I will make a few of those styles.

cheers


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (8/3/04)

Goat said:


> TDA - could you flesh out your comment "...wash my slurry several times in cool boiled water". What does this entail? thanks.


 Goat, here is what I do, it has worked for me so far touch wood :unsure: 

I collect a cup or 250mls if you like of yeast slurry from the bottom of the fermenter when I transfer to secondary. I put this in a sterilised jar of about 1 litre capacity. This is then put into the fridge for 24 hours whilst the yeast sludge seperates from the remaining beer. After 24 hours I then pour of the small amount of beer on top of the slurry. I will then pour 250mls of cooled boiled water(boiled for 15 mins) onto the slurry, put the lid on it and shake the shit out of it. Then store in the fridge for 24 hours and repeat the process at least 2 more times.
I then leave it for up to a week and repitch 1/3rd as required. The remaining slurry I pitch into a malt starter and let ferment out then fridge it.
With acid washing you need a solution of around pH of 2.3 and you wash the yeast in this over a 2 hour period. You then have to repitch this yeast into a starter.
Hope this helps.

The usual disclaimer's apply to this advice  

C&B
TDA


----------



## deebee (9/3/04)

I bought a 5 litre glass demijohn a couple of weeks ago with a rubber bung and airlock and it is The Grouse for making starters. I built up a Wyeast 1272 to 3 litres plus froth then filled up four stubbies for the frig, leaving more than a litre in the demijohn. Poured off the liquid and pitched about a cup of slurry. Bubbling within 4 hours. Could theoretically build the starter up to four litres or more and store a big bunch of stubbies. 

The beauty is the ease of sterilising, the size of it and its sexy looks. Good to watch the yeasties doing their thing.

I do like the idea of getting one of those pyrex bottles that you can put on the stove. Boil it up with extract and bung then allow to cool with airlock. Sterility guaranteed. But not sure where to source one. For now I love my demijohn.


----------



## Goat (9/3/04)

Thanks for the advice Doc - sounds a bit scary, but I'll give it a go.

Deebee, I bought a 2L Erlenmeyer flask (conical type thing) and its great - well worth it. In retrospect I should have got a larger one though. These are the prices (excl GST):

2lt glass Erlenmeyer flask $11.00 
3lt glass Erlenmeyer flask $21.00

The place I bought them from:
Perth Scientific Equipment
U2/ 11 Narloo St
Malaga WA 6090

ph: 08 9209 3955
fax: 08 9209 3944


----------



## johnno (9/3/04)

I just use empty coke bottles to store it in.


----------



## Jovial_Monk (9/3/04)

Jars of slurry should be stored at 4C and used in a week. That said, HBers have pitched it up to 3 months later (but then did they pitch a true or mutated yeast?)

Pitching another beer into the same fermenter immediately after racking is another way to use slurry. I prefer to split my starter though than use cake. Clean fresh yeast

Jovial Monk


----------



## big d (9/3/04)

im still trying to come to grips with whats a good tasting yeast and a bad tasting yeast slurry.
any tips fellas as personally i reckon it tastes crap so for me whats good /bad.
dont want to spoil 23 litres of beer cause i cant tell the difference.  

cheers
big d


----------



## deebee (9/3/04)

Have wondered the same, big d.

The 1272 starter I just made tastes very fruity but that is supposedly a property of the yeast. Add to that the fact that you typically brew a starter a bit warmer than beer and you have a zesty tasting starter. I swished it around my mouth for a good while before deciding to pitch it.

Off tastes are hopefully more obvious than just zesty. And they should in theory increase with time. So if in doubt maybe leave the starter for a few days and taste again?

Any other thoughts on this?


----------



## johnno (9/3/04)

So far I have just been smelling it. If it smells beery,yeasty then I suppose its ok. Its worked so far.
Like how bad is the smell/taste when its off?

cheers


----------



## sosman (9/3/04)

I had forgotten about some lager yeast I had saved from a "gold rush pilsner" kit (I believe they no longer come with true lager yeast).

I noticed the 600 ml PET bottle in the fridge one day lookin' a bit angry and it popped when I opened it. I figured I would use it in a partial mash pilsner (my last brew).

I washed it a few times and I reckon I ended up pitching around the equivalent of 100gm of dry yeast. Even though it was a lager yeast it was pretty well done in two days. In fact it tricked me, I pitched at a warmer temp then set the thermostat for 12 degrees. By the time it got to the target temp it was pretty much done.

The yeast slurry was more than 6 weeks old.

I have a couple of links related to yeast washing at:
brewiki: Yeast Washing

Cheers


----------



## big d (9/3/04)

deebee
i can relate to the zesty side of yeast.
recently did a re start on a 1968 special london esb.all went well until i tried it.
words to mind... zesty,effervescent,spritelly,tingley which was very pronounced kinda like fruit loops tingle,but smelt to me ok.
i was very worried about the tingley taste/sensation so i erred my judgment and used a dry yeast instead.the yeast is still in the fridge awaiting judgement day.
any thoughts on the tingle sensation guys.?
is it ok to use /should i try it and see what turns out.

cheers
big d


----------



## deebee (10/3/04)

Does anyone put hops in their starters to help the palate assess whether the starter tastes "right"?


----------



## Murray (10/3/04)

deebee said:


> Does anyone put hops in their starters to help the palate assess whether the starter tastes "right"?


 Deebee, I always chuck a couple of hop pellets into my starter wort when I am boiling it. I haven't come across a 'bad' (different) tasting starter yet so I have no idea what a bad tasting starter tastes like.


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (10/3/04)

An infected yeast starter is IMO obvious to the taste. Hard to describe but tart, rubbery, vegemite like. This is what I got from a 1056 starter bottle that was around 2 years old. I threw it out.
Always taste starters b4 pitching and have some dry yeast as back up.

As for the brew I pitched my slurry into, it is down to 1014 from 1049 in less than 48 hours. Fermented at 22C. No off flavours evident.

Cheers and bollocks
TDA


----------



## deebee (27/3/04)

big d said:


> i can relate to the zesty side of yeast.
> recently did a re start on a 1968 special london esb.all went well until i tried it.
> words to mind... zesty,effervescent,spritelly,tingley which was very pronounced kinda like fruit loops tingle,but smelt to me ok.
> i was very worried about the tingley taste/sensation so i erred my judgment and used a dry yeast instead.the yeast is still in the fridge awaiting judgement day.
> any thoughts on the tingle sensation guys.?


 Well I was pouring a swollen 1084 Wyeast smack pack into a starter tonight for Sunday's brewing when I realised a great way to figure out what a good starter tastes like would be to taste the dregs in the bottom of the smack pack.

So I poured into my starter then had a little lick and whaddya know. It tastes just like my other starters. Kinda zesty, tingly bigD and maybe even yeasty (how about that?) So now I know.


----------



## Yeasty (28/3/07)

Digging up an old one here, but i thought id try doing this with some ale yeast i have here (notingham) as i might make another beer the same as im brewing with it now.

So i just collect the trub in a sterilised coke bottle, then wash it out 3 times. Does it have to have an airlock for the washing of the yeast with fresh water each time?

Then when im ready to use it, make up a mix of water / malt (amount and ratios?) and pour some slurry in with an airlock then pitch this into the fermenter?

Have i got this right?


----------



## goatherder (28/3/07)

Yeasty, it depends on when you want to use it. It's pretty safe to assume that a yeast cake has some degree of infection in it. If your beer was OK, then this will be slight. This won't be a drama if the yeast is healthy. 

After you rack, the yeast starts to go downhill. Pretty fast as far as I can tell too. I wouldn't be comfortable keeping a yeast cake for any more than a couple of days. People keep slurries for a couple of weeks, maybe I'm just a little cautious. Anyway, if you keep your slurry too long, or repitch too many times, you'll end up with an infected beer at some point.

I try to repitch my yeast cakes either the same day or the next. I leave a little beer in the bottom of the fermenter, give it a good swish around then drain it into a sterile container. I use the golden circle 1kg plastic fruit containers - they hold a bit over a litre. I pressure cook them for about 15 mins then cool before use.

As for washing, I don't really bother. Give the container a shake and within a few minutes you will see the chunks of trub fall to the bottom. You can then pour off the suspended yeast into a second container. There is no need to make a starter as you have mentioned - you should be collecting more than enough yeast cells to kick off a fermentation.

I use the pitching calculator at http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html. There is a little bit of theory on repitching on the page http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php. The theory and the calculator seem sound to me, I've had no reason to question them up to date.


----------



## Yeasty (28/3/07)

I dont plan on pitching onto a yeast cake, was wanting to just collect some off my primary ferment slurry.

I was wanting to wash it as my beer this time has hops sediment in it and wondered if others strain the slurry at all?

Id only make a starter to make sure i had a healthy yeast with before i pitch it into my wort.


----------



## haro (28/3/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> An infected yeast starter is IMO obvious to the taste. Hard to describe but tart, rubbery, vegemite like.
> TDA




Your starter will taste like vegemite because yeast nutrient smells and tastes like Vegemite, so you shouldn't be looking for that characteristic if your starters bad


----------



## razz (28/3/07)

Evening Yeasty. When I wash yeast I use a 500ml jam jar with the "pop down" type lid. I put a 1/2 cup of water in it and boil it in the microwave for a couple minutes. Put it in the fridge to cool then tip the yeast into it, by this time I have another jar cooling in the fridge and once the first jar has settled tip it into the second and so on until I have a reasonably clean looking yeast paste. Discarding the heavier trub each time. I have left it in this state for several weeks without any apparent problems.


----------



## Yeasty (29/3/07)

can someone tell me how i go about removing the remains of the hop pellets in the trub to reuse it?

Or do i not worry about the hops sediment? I spose it depends on if i want to do the same style of beer again?

Lets say i dont and just want to reuse the nottingham for a different style.

thanks.


----------



## Stuster (29/3/07)

Yeasty, have a look at Chiller's post on Yeast Farming airlocked at the top of the Common Ground forum. Excellent info on how to do it. :super:


----------



## Henno (5/4/07)

I am considering doing this with the yeast in the bottom of my first temp controlled lager. I used two packets of S23 Saflager. I had to add another one to get it to start working after no activity for three days. It is now off and running.

Is it worth doing this with a dry yeast though or are you guys mostly tallking about the mega expensive liquids when reusing?

The other question I have is when you are washing do you pour off the liquid on the top (down the sink) and keep the solids on the bottom each time you wash it?


----------



## Stuster (5/4/07)

Reusing a lager yeast is a good idea as you should then have plenty of yeast to get the job done without waiting too long for it to start and risking infections.

If you are repitching straight away, drain off the beer, then give it a swirl. You can just scoop up a jar of slurry with a sterilized jar. Cap it. Clean out the fermenter. Put the new wort in. Add yeast. Done.

A great pitching rate calculator is here.


----------

