# RecipeDB - Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale



## Ross

Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale  Ale - English Pale Ale  All Grain               46 Votes        Brewer's Notes 30gm 0 min = added 10 mins after flame out & steeped for 20 mins before chilling. Yeast = Dried US-56.Mashed cool at 64c final gravity 1010 = 5.2% Alc.This is the basis for all my Summer ales - A great way to really test a single hop variety.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      4.5 kg Bairds Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt    0.4 kg TF Torrefied Wheat       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      30 g Nelson Sauvin (Pellet, 12.7AA%, 0mins)    20 g Nelson Sauvin (Pellet, 12.7AA%, 5mins)    15 g Nelson Sauvin (Pellet, 12.7AA%, 80mins)    15 g Nelson Sauvin (Pellet, 12.7AA%, 20mins)       Yeast     12 g DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale         23L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.05 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.013 (calc)   Bitterness 40.8 IBU   Efficiency 75%   Alcohol 4.81%   Colour 8 EBC   Batch Size 23L     Fermentation   Primary 7 days   Secondary 7 days


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## the_fuzz

RecipeDB said:


> This is the discussion topic for the recipe: Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale



Hey Ross,

What does "15gm 0 min addition = mash hops" mean?

Specifically, what does "mash hops" mean? Hops into the mash?


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## randyrob

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> Hops into the mash?



yes that is correct.


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## the_fuzz

randyrob said:


> yes that is correct.



Sorry for the ignorance - at the start of the mash or what?

What exactly does this do, I would assume it would impart some flavour and a lot of bitterness?


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## geoffi

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> Sorry for the ignorance - at the start of the mash or what?
> 
> What exactly does this do, I would assume it would impart some flavour and a lot of bitterness?




I've never tried mash hopping myself. I know that Pat Casey up at Blue Mountains Home Brewing does a lot of mash hopping, and his beers taste great.


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## Ross

The original recipe was made with mash hops - yes, added at beggining of mash.
Having made a 100% mash hopped beer I can confirm I'd NEVER bother with mash hopping again. A total waste of hops IMHO.
Adds virtually nothing to the brew in the way of flavour, aroma or bitterness. I'll update the recipe to remove.

Cheers Ross


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## BoilerBoy

Simply add it at the start of the mash.

It does seem to add some bitterness, but not as harsh as adding to the boil mainly because much of the hop material remains behind in the mash and doesn't go through to the boil which makes it ideal for high alpha hops like POR and I assume Nelson savin which I will be trying for the first time myself next brew day including a mash hop addition.

When I first heard about "Mash hopping" I was told it was mainly for improved aroma, but I just havent found this to be the case.
It works well for smooth bittering and flavour and programs such as promash will give a IBU figure for it, but again I treat it as a nominal guess.

Cheers
BB


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## the_fuzz

Thanks all,

AHB comes thrgh with the goods in quick time again :wub:


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## afromaiko

Kinda new to AG here, wondering why this recipe says to use the pellets at 0 mins instead of the flowers as used for the other additions?


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## Ross

afromaiko said:


> Kinda new to AG here, wondering why this recipe says to use the pellets at 0 mins instead of the flowers as used for the other additions?



Just a typo...has been fixed now  

cheers Ross


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## afromaiko

Ross said:


> Just a typo...has been fixed now
> 
> cheers Ross



I was hoping there was a magical reason such as being more volatile or something, but thanks Ross!


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## fraser_john

Ross,

does the Torrified Wheat need to be cooked first or is it already gelatinised? Planning on doing this Sunday.


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## lokpikn

Torrified wheat has been converted you just need to crack and add straight to the mash


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## afromaiko

If I wanted to sub the torrified wheat for wheat malt, how much malt should be used instead.. about the same amount?


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## fraser_john

afromaiko said:


> If I wanted to sub the torrified wheat for wheat malt, how much malt should be used instead.. about the same amount?



From what I can find in Promash Torrified Wheat is around 1.035 potential SG and Wyermans Wheat is 1.038, so I guess it would be a straight substitution.


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## Back Yard Brewer

I am looking at doing this one in a few weeks and was wondering if any more hops should be added when using pellets. Seems Ross and my LHBS don't curently have flowers.

BYB


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## Timmsy

I had done this yesterday and turned out pretty dark after the boil? Is this normal and will it clear up later on?


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## schooey

Back Yard Brewer said:


> I am looking at doing this one in a few weeks and was wondering if any more hops should be added when using pellets. Seems Ross and my LHBS don't curently have flowers.
> 
> BYB



I believe you will get better utilisation from using pellets than you will from using flowers i.e. More IBU's from the same weight of hops. The rule of thumb, I'm led to believe, is about 10%. So the answer is no, technically you don't need as many


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## Back Yard Brewer

schooey said:


> I believe you will get better utilisation from using pellets than you will from using flowers i.e. More IBU's from the same weight of hops. The rule of thumb, I'm led to believe, is about 10%. So the answer is no, technically you don't need as many




If this is the case, has anyone used pellets for this recipe and if so how did it turn out?

BYB


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## homekegger1

Back Yard Brewer said:


> If this is the case, has anyone used pellets for this recipe and if so how did it turn out?
> 
> BYB



Have a keg of this on tap at the moment mate. Used pellets. Feel free to drop in and have a try. I think it turned out pretty good.

Cheers

HK


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## afromaiko

Made a couple of batches, first with flowers and then with pellets. A couple of months between brews but I can't tell any difference... very tasty. I'll be using pellets again next time too.

EDIT: Also swapped the torrified wheat for regular wheat malt and it was fine. I just used the same amount.


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## Katherine

> I had done this yesterday and turned out pretty dark after the boil? Is this normal and will it clear up later on?




This is my one only 2 weeks in the bottle...


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## Back Yard Brewer

Katie said:


> This is my one only 2 weeks in the bottle...
> 
> View attachment 22977




Looks the goods. Will look even better when the haze drops out. But I suppose its all about the flavour isnt it :icon_drool2: 

BYB


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## Timmsy

Katie said:


> This is my one only 2 weeks in the bottle...
> 
> View attachment 22977



Looks delious. Cant wait untill its ready


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## Katherine

> QUOTE (Katie @ Dec 2 2008, 10:26 AM)
> 
> This is my one only 2 weeks in the bottle...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reduced 47% http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=22977 336 x 448 (18.59K) //
> 
> 
> Looks the goods. Will look even better when the haze drops out. But I suppose its all about the flavour isnt it




We forgot the whirflock.... and no chance of the haze dropping out its GONE! will brew again!


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## Back Yard Brewer

Katie said:


> We forgot the whirflock.... and no chance of the haze dropping out its GONE! will brew again!




FFS  what was the turn around time for the keg to be mt? If it was that good I may have to view getting a little bit more of the NS.


BYB

Edit: If you like give the old gelatine a whirl. Does wonders for me and a ship load of other brewers.


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## reviled

Back Yard Brewer said:


> FFS  what was the turn around time for the keg to be mt? If it was that good I may have to view getting a little bit more of the NS.
> 
> 
> BYB
> 
> Edit: If you like give the old gelatine a whirl. Does wonders for me and a ship load of other brewers.



+ for Gelatine! Still have chill haze, but no yeast haze...


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## jonocarroll

Okay, I'm doing this as my first AG, but I have a couple questions;

- How long were the mash/boil? There's [topic="28257"]a thread[/topic] going on here that suggests patience pays off for MO. 80 min first addition seems to imply a 90 minute boil?

- Final gravity/ABV in the recipe don't match the ones in the notes. Is this usual (predicted vs obtained) or is this a typo?

Less of a question; In the notes it says yeast was US-56 (old name), but the recipe says US-05 (new name). Not really a problem I guess.

I'm doing this no-chill. Any forum members in Adelaide will be welcome to taste test and compare. This will also be hop pellets - seems I couldn't talk the local supplier out of any flowers.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## Effect

QuantumBrewer said:


> Okay, I'm doing this as my first AG, but I have a couple questions;
> 
> - How long were the mash/boil? There's [topic="28257"]a thread[/topic] going on here that suggests patience pays off for MO. 80 min first addition seems to imply a 90 minute boil?
> 
> - Final gravity/ABV in the recipe don't match the ones in the notes. Is this usual (predicted vs obtained) or is this a typo?
> 
> Less of a question; In the notes it says yeast was US-56 (old name), but the recipe says US-05 (new name). Not really a problem I guess.
> 
> I'm doing this no-chill. Any forum members in Adelaide will be welcome to taste test and compare. This will also be hop pellets - seems I couldn't talk the local supplier out of any flowers.
> 
> Cheers! :icon_cheers:



I did this as a 60 min boil and no chilled.

If I was using a chiller I would do a 90 minute boil - as I think the recipe suggests that.

The idea with this recipe is to let the hops take centre stage. So IMO any yeast that doesn't add heaps of character or esters would be great. US-05 or even nottingham if you wish.

I changed the hop additions around as well. Did a 60 minute boil with first additions at 40 mins, second additions at 10 mins and third in the cube. The fourth additions I will steep the hops in some boiling water for a minute or two, then pour the liquid into the fermentor a day or two before I bottle.


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## braufrau

turned out beautifully, of course! big hit with the rellies at christmas,


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## Jakechan

I finally kegged and carbed this, my 3rd AG, last night. Enjoying a glass now.

Its a very simple taste, the hops are very prominent and quite tasty, but this is staying true to being a Summer Ale. Easy to drink, and no great thought processes required 

I like it.




Cheers,
Jake


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## Effect

I really like this brew...even though mine didn't turn out too well...

I find that the nelson sauvin tastes a bit like peach


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## Katherine

I want it to be summer again....


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## jonocarroll

Katie said:


> I want it to be summer again....


Does it need to be to enjoy this one? :icon_drool2: 

I've recently polished off the very last bottle of this (my first AG) that I found hiding in a crate. I've since done 10 all-grain beers, and I reckon it's time to revisit this one, now that I know a bit more about what I'm doing.

Can't wait!


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## Katherine

QuantumBrewer said:


> Does it need to be to enjoy this one? :icon_drool2:
> 
> I've recently polished off the very last bottle of this (my first AG) that I found hiding in a crate. I've since done 10 all-grain beers, and I reckon it's time to revisit this one, now that I know a bit more about what I'm doing.
> 
> Can't wait!




mmmmm try it with galaxy


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## jonocarroll

Katie said:


> mmmmm try it with galaxy


 :unsure: but I like the recipe as is so much... Ugh, now I need to make both.

My to-brew-list needs a reference card...


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## smollocks

Katie said:


> mmmmm try it with galaxy



Straight swap?


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## Katherine

Yes... from memory there pretty close in there aa...

Done a mixture of both in this recipe to. That was nice!


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## jonocarroll

Katie said:


> Done a mixture of both in this recipe to. That was nice!


Care to divulge the hop schedule? Feel free to PM me just for the sake of keeping this on topic. Do you still get the passionfruit/stone fruit flavours/aromas? Very interesting...


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## Katherine

QuantumBrewer said:


> Care to divulge the hop schedule? Feel free to PM me just for the sake of keeping this on topic. Do you still get the passionfruit/stone fruit flavours/aromas? Very interesting...




Ill do that for you tonight, from memory pretty sure Galaxy for bittering then a mixture of both we called it Planet of the Grapes... LOL! we had done a galaxy summer ale and the original at the same time you could tell the difference but they have similar flavours! I could never tell which one I liked the most. 

Together I thought then galaxy took that sweet edge of the nelson!


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## Henno

Whenever I run up a recipe from the data base my IBU's are always off. Can somebody have a look at this and give me an opinion of why I am getting 32.1 IBU instead of what Ross has posted as ending up with 36.6?

I usually run up the author's original and then tweak the hops to end up with the same IBU's per addition with the pellets and AA% I actually have in stock if this makes sense.

I have added the NS as Bittering/Leaf with an Alpha of 11.4% and a Beta of 3% and hop use Boil if this helps.

Any ideas gurus?
Cheers 
Henno



BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Nelson Sauvin summer ale
Brewer: Mark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: English Pale Ale/Strong Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 28.19 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 8.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5Grain 91.84 % 
0.40 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBCGrain 8.16 % 
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (80 min) Hops 17.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 10.1 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 4.4 IBU 
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: basic ale profile
Total Grain Weight: 4.90 kg
----------------------------
basic ale profile
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
15 min Protein Rest Add 18.43 L of water at 55.0 C 52.0 C 
60 min Saccrification Heat to 66.0 C over 5 min 66.0 C 
10 min Mash out Heat to 75.6 C over 5 min 75.6 C 


Notes:
------
30gm 0 min = added 10 mins after flame out & steeped for 20 mins before chilling.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## chappo1970

Henno recipe looks fine by me. I would mash a little lower say 64-65C ish this is a great beer when it's dry.

As for Beersmith I haven't got a clue but I am sure it has to do with how your brewery equipment has been set up in there as everyones system is a little different especially with dead loss which I am 90% positive BS uses to calc IBU's? Where Butters when you need him?

Chap Chap


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## brettprevans

i dont use beersmith either but maybe you've put in whole hops or flowers instead of pellets? i know in promash it makes a differance. promash also has an option where you can change the utilisation ratio of the differant type of hops. 4ibu differance isnt much. just chuck a few mopre hops in. if it ends up being more bitter by a couple ibu similarly it wont make much differance


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## matho

Henno said:


> Whenever I run up a recipe from the data base my IBU's are always off. Can somebody have a look at this and give me an opinion of why I am getting 32.1 IBU instead of what Ross has posted as ending up with 36.6?



im no guru but there are about 4 different formula's used to calculate ibu's, beersmith's default is one and promash's default is another i don't know what the db uses but it comes out higher than tinseth ( thats the formula i use).


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## Henno

Thanks guys. I actually have the hops set up in BS to be 'leaf' which I gather is flowers. I assumed the difference I have is something to do with my settings just wondering how I can sort it out for next time.

I will mash it at 64 as Ross said. I just whacked in the profile for my new herms that I use with ales.


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## Henno

Here's what happened when I changed the same weight leaf to pellets with the AA that I have in stock for the double batch I gunna make.

Any reason I can't dry hop the 0 min addition?




BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Nelson Sauvin summer ale x2
Brewer: Mark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: English Pale Ale/Strong Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 48.00 L 
Boil Size: 53.63 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
8.80 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5Grain 91.84 % 
0.78 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBCGrain 8.16 % 
32.40 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (80 min) Hops 19.7 IBU 
32.40 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (20 min) Hops 11.3 IBU 
43.30 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
62.60 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
2 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale  


Mash Schedule: basic ale profile
Total Grain Weight: 9.59 kg
----------------------------
basic ale profile
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
15 min Protein Rest Add 36.07 L of water at 55.0 C 52.0 C 
60 min Saccrification Heat to 64.0 C over 5 min 64.0 C 
10 min Mash out Heat to 75.6 C over 5 min 75.6 C 


Notes:
------
30gm 0 min = added 10 mins after flame out & steeped for 20 mins before chilling.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Ross

Henno said:


> Any reason I can't dry hop the 0 min addition?



you can but I'd recommend you stick to flame out - dry hopped does not taste as nice IMHO.

cheers Ross


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## Henno

Thanks Ross. What's your theory about my IBU difference?


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## smollocks

In my experience the forum recipe software never aligns with beersmith. I use the recipe amounts, adjust for my AA% and volume, and that's it. You're replicating the recipe as closely as possible, and having a more accurate total IBU calculation wouldn't change that. Bottom line, don't worry about it.


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## scrumpy

hey guys!!

ive got a batch of this in my primary ferm at the mo....its been in there for 11 days and has pretty much fermente out at 18deg...
im gonna crash chill foe a few days then keg. 

Id like some suggestions on what a good hop would be to dry hop this beer with in the keg??
Im a little stumped with what would go well with the Nelsons due to its unique grapey/ flavour???

help!


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## hefevice

scrumpy said:


> hey guys!!
> 
> ive got a batch of this in my primary ferm at the mo....its been in there for 11 days and has pretty much fermente out at 18deg...
> im gonna crash chill foe a few days then keg.
> 
> Id like some suggestions on what a good hop would be to dry hop this beer with in the keg??
> Im a little stumped with what would go well with the Nelsons due to its unique grapey/ flavour???
> 
> help!



My suggestion would be don't dry hop. I brewed this recently, kegging and filtering about 2 weeks ago. Even after filtering, there is plenty of hop aroma and flavour. Can't really think of anything that would improve on/compliment the NS flavour and aroma.


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## st.sloth

howdy chaps - posted this in kits and extracts to no avail so far. very interested in this recipe, but am still an extract brewer that has only begun flirting with partials. 

can anyone suggest an extract/partial substitute recipe for Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale? 

i will be making an order through craftbrewer for the hops - so if there's anything else from there i could use for this, suggest away! 

went an had a Knappstein Reserve Lager the other day for 'research' purposes. is the Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale in the same ballpark as this? 

cheers - Louie


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## marlow_coates

Hey guys,

Been a few months since my last brew, and wanting to give this a go given it's good reports, but have a question.

Regarding the hops being flowers, how do I convert the weights for pellets?

Not keen on another overly bitter brew like the last disaster with the end of my chinese hops.

Cheers
Marlow


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## bconnery

marlow_coates said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Been a few months since my last brew, and wanting to give this a go given it's good reports, but have a question.
> 
> Regarding the hops being flowers, how do I convert the weights for pellets?
> 
> Not keen on another overly bitter brew like the last disaster with the end of my chinese hops.
> 
> Cheers
> Marlow


Homebrew "wisdom" suggest 10% more of the flowers (dried) by weight are needed vs pellets. However it all depends on the AA% of the crop you are using so you are better off using a recipe formulation tool of some sort, which should already allow you to select pellets vs flowers. 

Assuming the same aa% you could simply adjust the hops down by 10% (I seem to remember the recipe uses flowers?) but I'd highly recommend a recipe formulation tool as the best solution...


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## marlow_coates

Cheers bconnery

Marlow


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## Dylo

Made this as per recipe but subbed torrified wheat for normal wheat malt. Bl**dy love this beer. Go the Nelson, i find it quite a resiny hop but it's really good. After this one I have just made another with an identical grain bill but I swapped the Nelson for Motueka (because i had heaps lefft over). 

Dylo


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## MarkBastard

I have 50gm of NS flowers and want to make something like this but don't want to buy more NS to do so.

I'll be doing a 20L batch so there's some saving there I guess.

What would be a good bittering hop to complement this out of Chinook, Columbus, Cascade, Amarillo, Willamette and EKG?

I'm thinking EKG just because I liked it as a bittering hop for my little creatures clone. Sounds random but worked well and I have the most of that hop so need to use it up.


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## husky

Im going to put this one down on the weekend. Since I no chill, I will flame out - put pot in water bath and add the 0min addition to steep until racking to fermenter. Hopefully turns out alright.


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## Chookers

just a quick question it says 30gm 0min = added 10min after flame out.. is this the same as hot break?


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## Bongchitis

Chookers said:


> just a quick question it says 30gm 0min = added 10min after flame out.. is this the same as hot break?




ahhh No! Hot break is coagulated protein from the boil and happens throughout the boil... not really a moment in time ie hop addition.

10 min after flame out is 10 min after you turn the flame out on your burner, post boil. It is just a very late addition of hops.

Good luck with AG mate.


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## Chookers

Bongchitis said:


> ahhh No! Hot break is coagulated protein from the boil and happens throughout the boil... not really a moment in time ie hop addition.
> 
> 10 min after flame out is 10 min after you turn the flame out on your burner, post boil. It is just a very late addition of hops.
> 
> Good luck with AG mate.




Thanks Bongchitis.. :kooi: 

I only have one book and its old very old.. I wish there was a glossary on this forum.


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## felten

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=17 like this?


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## Chookers

felten said:


> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=17 like this?






  Your the best.. Many thanks


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## Chookers

Would it make a huge difference if I was to substitute the Bairds Marris Otter Pale Ale Malt for Joe White Traditional Pale Ale Malt?

"are'nt they all the same"


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## raven19

To the refined palette, the answer is yes, for my palette I would say no difference!


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## under

Agree. Its a cracker btw.


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## Chookers

what exactly is Torrefied Wheat, and what does it add to the recipe??

could I get a similar result using crystal wheat malt? or are these two incomparable to each other.


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## Phoney

Chookers said:


> what exactly is Torrefied Wheat, and what does it add to the recipe??
> 
> could I get a similar result using crystal wheat malt? or are these two incomparable to each other.



Completely incomparable. 

Any LHBS worth their salt should have Torrefied wheat. Use raw wheat if worse comes to worse.


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## Chookers

another question.. sorry its my first time..  

I am being asked what grade of milling the grains will need? I was thinking I would use the BIAB method, as I do not have a full setup.

recomendations?


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## felten

Chookers said:


> what exactly is Torrefied Wheat, and what does it add to the recipe??
> 
> could I get a similar result using crystal wheat malt? or are these two incomparable to each other.


It's wheat that has had the shit scared out of it.... that, or it's just unmalted wheat that has been pre-gelatinised so you can add it straight to the mash.

Not sure what you mean about grade of milling, if your LHBS is milling the grain for you, that will be sufficient.


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## Chookers

felten said:


> It's wheat that has had the shit scared out of it.... that, or it's just unmalted wheat that has been pre-gelatinised so you can add it straight to the mash.
> 
> Not sure what you mean about grade of milling, if your LHBS is milling the grain for you, that will be sufficient.




cool B) ..

stupid web site, I thought just having the grain cracked was enough.. but the stupid site says what grade of milling do you require.


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## Chookers

Im not sure I'll use Torrified wheat, I see some people have used wheat malt... what flavour difference am I likely to experience if I go with wheat malt instead??

and is the torrified wheat used purely for head retention?

Im going to do an order of 12.5kg of each, and want to be able to use these ingredients in other brews.


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## Ross

Malted wheat works perfectly well - I use either. In such a hoppy beer the difference is very subtle.

cheers Ross


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## Steve

Ive got a keg of this thats been chilled overnight and another fermenter full. Think i might go and force carb the keg now... nom nom nom :chug:


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## Chookers

Ross said:


> Malted wheat works perfectly well - I use either. In such a hoppy beer the difference is very subtle.
> 
> cheers Ross




Thanks for your reply.. its good to know, cause Im just starting out. and I suppose the malted wheat could be used in 
Weizens (did I spell it right), or I hope it could. plus I just got 250g of Nelson Sauvin flowers.. so Im gonna have to find something to do with the rest of that.. as well as the remainder of my Bsaaz flowers.. how long do these last in the freezer?


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## Dylo

Chookers said:


> Thanks for your reply.. its good to know, cause Im just starting out. and I suppose the malted wheat could be used in
> Weizens (did I spell it right), or I hope it could. plus I just got 250g of Nelson Sauvin flowers.. so Im gonna have to find something to do with the rest of that.. as well as the remainder of my Bsaaz flowers.. how long do these last in the freezer?




Do the same recipe with your leftover B Saaz (Motueka) hops. It works beautifully and im torn as to which one I like better. They will last a good long time if you store them in an air tight container in the freezer.

Dylo


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## bluedoors

Just brewed this Nelson Summer Ale the other day (BiAB), and its currently in the fermenter bubbling away. Had a lot of clumping on dough in during the mash. I think the torrified wheat clumps a little (maybe will add rice husks next time i order from ross).

Hit my numbers reasonably close (only my 2nd BiAB and running at only 65% efficiency which is a little low).

What have people done with their left over hops? I only have 15gm left, but seem a shame to waste it (in the fridge at present).

I've also used the full 25gm of American yeast from Craftbrewer, but given its only a 18L batch i'm wondering if i should have used a little less. Any thoughts?


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

BlueDoors said:


> Just brewed this Nelson Summer Ale the other day (BiAB), and its currently in the fermenter bubbling away. Had a lot of clumping on dough in during the mash. I think the torrified wheat clumps a little (maybe will add rice husks next time i order from ross).
> 
> Hit my numbers reasonably close (only my 2nd BiAB and running at only 65% efficiency which is a little low).
> 
> What have people done with their left over hops? I only have 15gm left, but seem a shame to waste it (in the fridge at present).
> 
> I've also used the full 25gm of American yeast from Craftbrewer, but given its only a 18L batch i'm wondering if i should have used a little less. Any thoughts?



Good work mate. This is a nice beer. 

Save your left over hops for next time. Store them in an airtight container in the fridge or freezer. 

25 grams of yeast seems like a lot. On the craftbrewer website they sell it in a 2x 12g pack. 12 grams would be enough for a brew of that size. 

Cheers

MOM


----------



## felten

BlueDoors said:


> I've also used the full 25gm of American yeast from Craftbrewer, but given its only a 18L batch i'm wondering if i should have used a little less. Any thoughts?


Even 12g might be over doing it, depending on the health of the packet and how you rehydrate it, check out http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html if you haven't already.


----------



## Lecterfan

I just did this one today (used pellets, not flowers). I pessimistically set my efficiency quite low on beersmith (%65), failing to take into account that as I am getting a bit more experienced with my gear I am also getting much better efficiency. My last few batches have all consistently come out on target at %75 - %78 on beersmith.


The long and the short is that including a 2L yeast starter (wyeast 1272 @ 1.038) I now have 24L of this brew at 1.060 OG sitting in the fermenter. Oops.

Meh, I'm sure it will still taste ok...


Lesson for today: set beersmith to %75 and enjoy balanced low alc beers if something goes awry rather than going the other way.

Not alot of hop aroma in the boil, but I am looking forward to the smell in the fermenting fridge tomorrow morning. Cheers.


----------



## bluedoors

mayor of mildura said:


> Good work mate. This is a nice beer.
> 
> Save your left over hops for next time. Store them in an airtight container in the fridge or freezer.
> 
> 25 grams of yeast seems like a lot. On the craftbrewer website they sell it in a 2x 12g pack. 12 grams would be enough for a brew of that size.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> MOM



Sorry, i meant the 12 grams. But figured this might also be too much.

I'd not seen http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html before, but will have a look


----------



## alien13

Hi,

I was just wondering about adding a whirfloc tablet to this recipe, and when it would be good to add it in? People say about 10mins before the boil is finished, but does that change with the recipe since there is a hop addition after the boil?

Thanks,
Nathan

[Edit] Also, am I on the right track with beersmith? I added in a scaled down recipe (using a 19lt pot and doing an 11lt batch following the basics of this guide). I also used less hops because I wanted to go with something that would be on the safer side until I get used to working with bitterness, etc.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Scaled Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale
Brewer: Nathan
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 L 
Boil Size: 15.63 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 9.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 28.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 80 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.25 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 91.84 % 
0.20 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 8.16 % 
5.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (80 min) Hops 15.6 IBU 
5.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (20 min) Hops 9.0 IBU 
7.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (5 min) Hops 4.1 IBU 
11.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (0 min) Hops - 
6gm SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale


----------



## scrumpy

mate the wirfloc will pull down the protien in the boil 10-15 min from the end of the boil is fine, once you have added the 0min addition of hops and your wort has been chilled just make a whirlpool in your kettle,cover then let sit for another 10 or so min, all the hop debris will settle at the bottom.





alien13 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was just wondering about adding a whirfloc tablet to this recipe, and when it would be good to add it in? People say about 10mins before the boil is finished, but does that change with the recipe since there is a hop addition after the boil?
> 
> Thanks,
> Nathan
> 
> [Edit] Also, am I on the right track with beersmith? I added in a scaled down recipe (using a 19lt pot and doing an 11lt batch following the basics of this guide). I also used less hops because I wanted to go with something that would be on the safer side until I get used to working with bitterness, etc.
> 
> 
> BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
> Recipe: Scaled Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale
> Brewer: Nathan
> Asst Brewer:
> Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
> TYPE: All Grain
> Taste: (35.0)
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 11.00 L
> Boil Size: 15.63 L
> Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
> Estimated Color: 9.3 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 28.7 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
> Boil Time: 80 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.25 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 91.84 %
> 0.20 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 8.16 %
> 5.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (80 min) Hops 15.6 IBU
> 5.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (20 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
> 7.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (5 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
> 11.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.60 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 6gm SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale


----------



## JestersDarts

I made this beer about two months ago with the NSauvin a friend gave to me to try, kegged it and let it sit to keg carbonate. Tapped the keg just after christmas.
It is a brilliant light summer quaffer, can you can really get a taste for the Nelson Sauvin.
Thanks for the recipe!


----------



## alien13

scrumpy said:


> mate the wirfloc will pull down the protien in the boil 10-15 min from the end of the boil is fine, once you have added the 0min addition of hops and your wort has been chilled just make a whirlpool in your kettle,cover then let sit for another 10 or so min, all the hop debris will settle at the bottom.



Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me!

By the time I get around to actually making this beer summer will be over lol. Hopefully it wont come to that and I'll actually be able to do it in the next couple days though. Really looking forward to trying the whole process out.

And if anyone has any comments on the recipe I posted above I'd really like to hear them.

Thanks
Nathan

[Edit] Also, is 64c the mash in/out temp?


----------



## Elbow

I did this one the other night on a 60 minute boil. I added my first lot of hops at 40 minutes as I was no chilling. So far, so good. I came back out about 20 minutes later and the gas had ran out and being too inebriated to drive, I had to leave it be. So, it was probably only boiled for maybe 30-50 minutes. Will this result in a bad brew? Obviously I had more wort into my cube than normal.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

This beer was beautiful ...... it did not last long and I am brewing it again as we speak.
Great simple recipe Ross - Thank you
Cheers
BBB


----------



## stux

Any wisdom on what to do if you want to no-chill this?

Would you throw the -10 hops in just before your whirlpool was dying down?

Or perhaps cube hop them?


----------



## Simon Gellie

Hi Stux,

I recently brewed this using "no chill". I actually did a mini boil ~2L using some of the wort that I retrieved after collecting the trub and letting it settle in the fridge overnight. I boiled the wort for 10 mins and added the hops at 5mins and 0mins then added it directly to the fermenter through a strainer at pitching time. 

I cracked open my first bottle of this about a week ago and it turned out great, plenty of flavour and aroma.

I have also had some good success with other brews using a French press (coffee plunger) and doing late additions separately and adding them to the fermenter when racking. 

Cheers
Simon


----------



## bullsneck

Brewing this today...

I tried something different. I paid a little more attention to the mash and stirred for the first 20mins, for 10mins at 1hr and and 20 while getting up to 76deg for mash out. To cut a long story a little shorter, I have estimated that I'll get an efficiency of around 84% instead of my usual 70%.

Should I up the bittering additions, bearing in mind the NS can be a little harsh in larger bittering quantities?

Your help is appreciated.

bullsneck.


----------



## stux

I brewed this the a few weeks back. I kegged it on the weekend. Its now drinking fantastically... real quaffer... even SWMBO loves it..

I don't think the keg is going to last very long!

4.5KG TF Floor Malted GP
.4KG Wey Wheat

The actual brew day turned into a disaster. You see I was playing with Hop Flowers for the first time... ever... 

Well, my siphon blocked and blocked and blocked and blocked... etc...

In the end I used a jug to bail the wort into my cube!!!!

Lets forget about that 

I ended up deciding that the fermenter samples didn't have anywhere near enough aroma, so decided to do my first french pressing with the remaining 30g of NS flowers...

1 minute steep, add, then a 5 minute re-steep and add

That was fun ))

I think the beer came out a little bit too bitter, most likely due to the extended time with the late hops at hot temps

but colour, head retention, flavour, etc are all great, and aroma... mmmmmm....


OG was 1.048, FG 1.008


I'm going to try a different approach in future with cubing... will simply shift all hop additions down 15 minutes (or 10?) and any that fall out of the boil will be done with the french press

(Mash Eff was 93.7%, Brew House was 64% after all the splashing and trub losses!!! but still managed to fill the keg )


----------



## stux

So I blew out the keg 17 days after tapping it.

Each glass was less hazy than the last, and the final glass was clear. heh.

That was primarily personal consumption, and I've *never* finished a keg that quick!!! damn.

I no chilled the beer

I ended up putting all additions in the boil, and then decided that I should re-add the last addition into the fermenter via french press, as there wasn't enough aroma.

It turned out *slightly* more bitter than I would like, but the aroma was there and awesome.

Next Time, Since I no-chill, I would bring forward the additions by 15 minutes, and put the final addition directly into the fermenter with the double infused french press


----------



## big78sam

So I'm looking to brew a summer quaffer tomorrow but don't have Nelson Sauvin on hand. Any suggestions as to whether which of Simcoe, Amarillo, Chinook or Centennial would work best? I want to stick with a single hop. Anyone tried these?


----------



## eclessia

Grain and grape have some in stock (well they did last weekend) - if you have time to get down there. 

no affiliation.


----------



## Chookers

Is it okay to use Bourghal (cracked wheat) in place of the Torrified Wheat??


----------



## jbowers

Loving this beer. Did it at 33ish IBU with the exact hopping regime suggested by Ross (I no chill so I did some hopping post cubing with a small boil). Found it to be a little lacking in terms of aroma and flavour so I popped 30g in the keg. After 3 days it's a cracker. Overall, loving this beer though ross. I reckon with a chiller it'd be very similar to what im drinking now, I just needed that extra kick due to my methods. Malt bill is supportive, grainy but clean. Really showcases the hops in a lovely way. I love the balance. Could see myself smashing pints of this in the heat.


----------



## TidalPete

Next brew after the next.  
Haven't done this for about 5 years & so need to take all good info on board in the next couple of weeks.
Vastly overdid the flavour hops component last time so lesson learnt.

TP


----------



## spox

did this as my 2nd AG brew.

managed 18L into the fermenter due to my insane Mongolian burner attempting to launch itself into space (im trying to source a needle valve for a bit more control). topped it upto 21L with water, my gravity started out at 1046 & after a week its now down to 1010. 

drank the entire hydrometer sample and its really light & good kick of bitterness.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

MMM 50L of this just finished fermenting @ 1010. can't wait to keg it!! Thanks Ross


----------



## big78sam

Brewed this and it is a really easy drinking quaffer. I think next time I'll sub the wheat for Rye to give a bit more complexity to the malt.


----------



## punkin

Having a go at this on the w'end. Busting to try my NS hops and figured i'd dive in head first.

Hope i like it cause i'm doing 4 kegs.

Tween my short ingredient list and brewmate, this is what i came up with...


*Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale* (Australian Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.046 (P): 11.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.008 (P): 2.1
Alcohol (ABV): 5.00 %
Colour (SRM): 4.4 (EBC): 8.6
Bitterness (IBU): 35.9 (Average)

91.84% Pale Ale Malt
8.16% Wheat Malt

0.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
1.2 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)


Single step Infusion at 64C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


Does it look about right?


----------



## big78sam

punkin said:


> Having a go at this on the w'end. Busting to try my NS hops and figured i'd dive in head first.
> 
> Hope i like it cause i'm doing 4 kegs.
> 
> Tween my short ingredient list and brewmate, this is what i came up with...
> 
> 
> *Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale* (Australian Pale Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.046 (P): 11.4
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.008 (P): 2.1
> Alcohol (ABV): 5.00 %
> Colour (SRM): 4.4 (EBC): 8.6
> Bitterness (IBU): 35.9 (Average)
> 
> 91.84% Pale Ale Malt
> 8.16% Wheat Malt
> 
> 0.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
> 0.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 0.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
> 1.2 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
> 
> 
> Single step Infusion at 64C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
> 
> Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05
> 
> 
> Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*
> 
> 
> Does it look about right?



Have you still got any of that rye left? As I mention above when I brew again next I will sub the wheat for rye. Then again I'm becoming like Maple - if you want to improve a beer, add rye.


----------



## punkin

Yes, bought a new bag last order so have about thirty kilos.

Do you think split the wheat and the rye?

that's what i've been doing with the Smurtos golden and i'm happy as a honeysucker.



Grinding grain tommorow for a sat brew.


----------



## alfadog

kegged a beer today so the fridge is now clear for a nelson sauvin, going to brew tomorrow after work!!!


----------



## wambesi

After a few years I finally got around to this one myself.
Only a few days left till it's kegged, too bloody long!


----------



## dkaos

May as well start brewing the next, this is a dead set quaffer. You'll be disappointed after it's gone!


----------



## Fat Bastard

2 out of my total of 6 AG brews have been this, and I can't keep it on the shelf. I only have 2 bottles left of the batch that was bottled 2 weeks before christmas. Took 4 bottles to our flat block's xmas bash, and had to go get another 4. People keep asking me if I have any left, and when I'm going to brew it again it was so popular.


----------



## big78sam

punkin said:


> Yes, bought a new bag last order so have about thirty kilos.
> 
> Do you think split the wheat and the rye?
> 
> that's what i've been doing with the Smurtos golden and i'm happy as a honeysucker.



My plan for the next brew of this style is 85-90% MO and 10-15% Rye, although a split could work too of between 5 to 10% each of Rye/Wheat. I've never used Rye and Wheat together though.

FWIW, I dont normally like to recommend a new recipe or change to an existing recipe until I've tried it myself but from our previous discussions I know you're a Rye fan and likely had some lying around. I just found the standard grain bill was a bit lacking for my taste. My approach was to try the standard recipe first and then depending on how it turned out, tweak it to my tastes. It's a bit hard to do that with 4 kegs at a time though...

Let me know which way you go and how it turns out.


----------



## punkin

big78sam said:


> My plan for the next brew of this style is 85-90% MO and 10-15% Rye, although a split could work too of between 5 to 10% each of Rye/Wheat. I've never used Rye and Wheat together though.
> 
> FWIW, I dont normally like to recommend a new recipe or change to an existing recipe until I've tried it myself but from our previous discussions I know you're a Rye fan and likely had some lying around. I just found the standard grain bill was a bit lacking for my taste. My approach was to try the standard recipe first and then depending on how it turned out, tweak it to my tastes. It's a bit hard to do that with 4 kegs at a time though...
> 
> Let me know which way you go and how it turns out.




Thanks mate. That is exactly what i've decided to do. Weighed the hops this morning and will grind the grain this arvo for the batch as i listed it to brew tommorow.

Next time i brew i will split the wheat with rye, that's what i've been doing with my Smurto's Golden with the good Dr's advice and it suits my tastes.


----------



## filbrew

Has anyone tried this with 1968 yeast? I have a slurry I need to repitch.


----------



## JoeF

I chose this as my first AG BIAB ever and I've gotta say a big THANKS to Ross

This is a great beer - so simple and flavourful - a great quaffer in this heat!

I will be making plenty more!!

:beer:


----------



## stux

Planning on a 60L batch for this weekend. My third go at this recipe

Probably my favourite beer so far


----------



## punkin

Hitting this again on sunday. The last 4 kegs didn't last long.

This time i will be splitting the wheat with rye and using Citra as the hop.


----------



## JoeF

punkin said:


> Hitting this again on sunday. The last 4 kegs didn't last long.
> 
> This time i will be splitting the wheat with rye and using Citra as the hop.




I just did an all Citra Ale with Golden Promise/Crystal/Carapils that I'm looking forward to trying. It's all kegged up and ready to go.

Going to do the NS Summer Ale again though - it's a winner!


----------



## punkin

This one is cold and carbonating now. Just waiting for my last NS keg to blow and i'll be tasting.



Will let you know the results. :icon_cheers:


----------



## jbowers

Got a slight variation of this on at the moment with some Rakau. Not as good at NS for this recipe, for sure. Will try with Summer Saaz and Kohatu also.


----------



## chunckious

punkin said:


> This one is cold and carbonating now. Just waiting for my last NS keg to blow and i'll be tasting.
> 
> 
> 
> Will let you know the results. :icon_cheers:



Whats the verdict Punk?


----------



## punkin

Sorry just spotted this after rereading the thread in prep for tommorows brew day.

The last got infected and resulted in 4 kegs down the drain.

Never got to try the citra one (not without the twang anyway).

Will be brewing again over the weekend, but trying to get my no chill conversion down pat. using the brewmate nochill button as 10 min pitching delays didn't work for me.

i will report back on the wheat subbed with all rye.

Got some nice NS flowers to play with.


----------



## stux

Stux said:


> Planning on a 60L batch for this weekend. My third go at this recipe
> 
> Probably my favourite beer so far



Got my third batch of NSSA kegged the other day. Good news is I'm pretty happy with my No Chill version now. Tried mixing it up a bit for the 2nd batch... and went back to my original version, and yes, its good. Good Aroma, Flavour and Bittering 

I use 5 additions.

The key is to use a french press to add the aroma back into the fermenter after krausen dies down. I place the hops in a french press (ie coffee plunger) fill with boiling water, stir and let stew for 1 minute, press and pour into the fermenter, then refill the plunger, stir and let stew for 5 minutes, repress an repour.

I would use no more than 10g per cup. Ie if you have a 4 cup press, only use 40g at a time!

My hop additions are

60 min, 20 min, 5 min and whirlpool. The whirlpool is done 10 minutes after cutting the heat, and I let the whirlpool sit for 10-20 minutes before siphoning into my cubes.

When calculating the first four additions I enter them into BeerSmith as 70 min, 30 min, 15 min and 0 min, and then essentially I add the hops 10 minutes later than indicated.

Used pellets this time, last time was flowers, similar results.

for a 60L batch I used


15g 11.3% 70min 7.3 IBUs
40g 11.3% 30min 14.4 IBUs
55g 11.3% 15min 12.8 IBUs
80g 11.3% 0min 0 IBUs 1.15g/L (end of boil vol)
80g 11.3% aroma 0 IBUs 1.33g/L (fermenter vol)

total of 34.5 IBUs

(remembering that the hops are put in 10 mins later than indicated on the recipe)

Calculate your last two additions based on End of Boil and Fermenter volumes, then the previous 2 additons to target the rough IBUs, then the first addition should bring you up to about 34.5 IBUs

Polychlar BrewBrite, Wyeast Nutrient and Wyeast 1272.

Ferment at 17.5C for 2 weeks, then crash to 0.5C for 1 week and keg.

Yummy


----------



## Fat Bastard

Anyone else having head retention problems with this beer? I've done 4 brews of NSSA, and all of them have pretty poor head retention. I added a glycoprotein rest at 72 for 10, but that's only improved matters slightly. Stepped mashes with my system can be problematic so it takes a long time to hit 72 from 64.

I don't seem to have head retention problems in my other beers so I'm wondering if this is a characteristic of Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter? I've just picked up half a bag of Simpson's MO, so I'll find out soon enough I guess.


----------



## humulus

Fat Bastard said:


> Anyone else having head retention problems with this beer? I've done 4 brews of NSSA, and all of them have pretty poor head retention. I added a glycoprotein rest at 72 for 10, but that's only improved matters slightly. Stepped mashes with my system can be problematic so it takes a long time to hit 72 from 64.
> 
> I don't seem to have head retention problems in my other beers so I'm wondering if this is a characteristic of Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter? I've just picked up half a bag of Simpson's MO, so I'll find out soon enough I guess.


F.B funny you should mention this im having a glass of my NSSA made with Simpsons M.O. ita s about the 4th or 5th schooie in the same glass and it keeps a great head and lacing all the way down the glass!!!


----------



## Rowy

I just finsished a bottle and no dramas at all. Just put down another batch and completely swapped the NS to Amarillo!


----------



## humulus

Rowy said:


> I just finsished a bottle and no dramas at all. Just put down another batch and completely swapped the NS to Amarillo!


Rowy thinking of doing this with cascade seeing ive got a shitload of it,its a great base beer to throw hops at!!!


----------



## Fat Bastard

humulus said:


> F.B funny you should mention this im having a glass of my NSSA made with Simpsons M.O. ita s about the 4th or 5th schooie in the same glass and it keeps a great head and lacing all the way down the glass!!!



Here's hoping! Been totally happy with NSSA otherwise. Just cracked another brew with mostly TFMO and some very small crystal additions and it's similar but not as bad. Looking forward to seeing how the Simpson's goes.


----------



## Rowy

humulus said:


> Rowy thinking of doing this with cascade seeing ive got a shitload of it,its a great base beer to throw hops at!!!




Because I'm new to the AG thing I've got myself a couple of good grain profiles and I'm throwing single hops at them to teach me what different hops taste like.


----------



## Midnight Brew

Rowy said:


> Because I'm new to the AG thing I've got myself a couple of good grain profiles and I'm throwing single hops at them to teach me what different hops taste like.



What are you grain profiles rowy? Doing similar things myself but the same profile as this recipe. Wouldnt mind adding more to it


----------



## Rowy

Midnight Brew said:


> What are you grain profiles rowy? Doing similar things myself but the same profile as this recipe. Wouldnt mind adding more to it




I use this one midnight for American hops. For English hops i use the following;

80% Marris Otter
10 % Munich
5% Victory
5% Wheat

I'm drinking a bitter at the moment and it is grouse!


----------



## Midnight Brew

Yummmmm. Will have to give some english hops a crack when I get some :beerbang:


----------



## Rowy

Midnight Brew said:


> Yummmmm. Will have to give some english hops a crack when I get some :beerbang:




I've just been using EKG & Fuggles at the moment but bconnery has me thinking about Brambling Cross next time around. I've got a mild in the keg just waiting I'm going to crack today. Public holiday tomorrow


----------



## punkin

Back to the Summer Ale, i've got mine mashing atm. I ran out of ale malt and subbed pilsener, but other wise it's to this recipe..



> *Nelson sauvign summer ale NC* (American Pale Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.046 (P): 11.4
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.007 (P): 1.8
> Alcohol (ABV): 5.06 %
> Colour (SRM): 4.5 (EBC): 8.9
> Bitterness (IBU): 37.4 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
> 
> 92% Pilsner Malt
> 8% Rye Malt
> 
> 0.5 g/L Nelson Sauvin (12% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
> 0.5 g/L Nelson Sauvin (12% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 0.5 g/L Nelson Sauvin (12% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
> 1.1 g/L Nelson Sauvin (12% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
> 
> 
> Single step Infusion at 64C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
> 
> Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05
> 
> 
> Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*



First time i've used flowers and i'm looking forward to the smell in the shed as this lot hits the wort...






Trying my new mash tun too.

I'm no chilling and plan on doing the additions as the recipe with the no chil button.
I'll be putting the aroma hops in at whirlpool 10mins after flameout.


----------



## Fat Bastard

Did the brew with Simpson's MO yesterday. Followed the same recipe I use for the Thomas Fawcett MO and got massive extraction! Hit 92% mash efficiency (was 79% with the TFMO) and post boil SG of 1.059 (should have been 1.050).

The only thing I did differently was adding a protein rest @ 52 for 20 minutes to my normal schedule of 64 for 60 / 72 for 10. Surely the protein rest wouldn't have caused that much better extraction?


----------



## punkin

Brewing this again for the second time this month. This has found a permanent tap on my bar. I've changed it up slightly to suit myself with rye as the malt addition and have found that using flowers has put a rounded flavour into the hop addition that wasn't there with pellets.

I'm loving it. This is my no chill 84 litre standard recipe.

Thanks again Ross.


----------



## lukasfab

View attachment 55110

[/quote]

i have put this into brewmate exactly like you have and my FG is 1012 and yours 1007????????


----------



## punkin

lukasfab said:


> View attachment 55110
> 
> 
> 
> i have put this into brewmate exactly like you have and my FG is 1012 and yours 1007????????




It's the yeast mate. i adjust my aa% as i find that the US-05 attenuates much lower than the default set by brewmate.


----------



## lukasfab

AHHHHH, i see

cheers


----------



## taztiger

punkin said:


> It's the yeast mate. i adjust my aa% as i find that the US-05 attenuates much lower than the default set by brewmate.



Hi Punkin
How are you adding your 0 minute hops? French Press method?

cheers
Taz


----------



## soundawake

I'm brewing this next sunday... I can't see anything about a mashout temp on the recipe. I see a few people have mashed out at 72 for 10, is this what I should do?


----------



## Helles

soundawake said:


> I'm brewing this next sunday... I can't see anything about a mashout temp on the recipe. I see a few people have mashed out at 72 for 10, is this what I should do?




No 72'c is still in conversion ( it is still ok and works)
Try 75'c - 78'c for a real mashout
Denaturing of enzymes end of conversion Etc


----------



## punkin

taztiger said:


> Hi Punkin
> How are you adding your 0 minute hops? French Press method?
> 
> cheers
> Taz




No i am chucking the 5 mins in at whirlpool. Also dry hopping in the keg in teaballs for the 0 min


----------



## soundawake

helles said:


> No 72'c is still in conversion ( it is still ok and works)
> Try 75'c - 78'c for a real mashout
> Denaturing of enzymes end of conversion Etc



Very good, thanks very much!


----------



## soundawake

Into day 8 of fermentation, everything is going well, except for the still creamy thick level of krausen still existing thanks to the personality of US05/1056. 

However - over the weekend I decided to buy some commercial beers that used NS hops so I could get a taste of what they were like. I can easily identify certain hops I've used a bit like Amarillo, Galaxy and Citra, but not NS. I picked up a Knappstein Reserve Lager and a Feral Golden Ace.

Turns out I CAN'T STAND the characteristics of Nelson Sauvin. That fruity white wine taste. Blecchh. God damn it, if I knew this before hand I would've subbed Nelson for another hop. Oh well! Will be interesting to see if I like it.

Just as well that if I don't like this beer I can easily brew another! Viva la BIAB!


----------



## bignath

soundawake said:


> Turns out I CAN'T STAND the characteristics of Nelson Sauvin. That fruity white wine taste. Blecchh. God damn it, if I knew this before hand I would've subbed Nelson for another hop.



Shit mate, that's no good. No good at all.

How much have you got left?

I mean, if you really don't like it.....and you're gonna hate using it all the time.....i'm sure some of us here can find a use for it.

(insert generic emoticon with hands rubbing together "gleefully", but with a strangely evil quality).


----------



## soundawake

Just bottled this - tasted delicious out of the fermenter. The wait begins.


----------



## soundawake

Aaaaaand have just tasted it for the first time... only 2 and a half weeks in the bottle. But it was pretty god damned good! Very light, easy drinking and refreshing, and even though its young it shows real promise. Less hop flavour and aroma than I was expecting, but that's a good thing. A great fairly neutral balance of bitterness and flavour. Can't wait to see how it is after another few weeks. 

But pretty sure its the tastiest beer I've brewed.


----------



## Logman

soundawake said:


> Turns out I CAN'T STAND the characteristics of Nelson Sauvin. That fruity *white wine taste*. Blecchh. God damn it, if I knew this before hand I would've subbed Nelson for another hop.


I've made a double batch of this, I don't mind it but find that same characteristic soundawake mentions a bit much for my taste. Going up to Craftbrewer on Saturday, can I grab something to throw in a hop bag into the keg to get a bit more citrus in there? If so, what might go well?


----------



## twizt1d

cascade (US) and nelson work well together


----------



## Logman

tonesbrew said:


> cascade (US) and nelson work well together


Oh ok, got some pellets, are they fine in a keg or would a small bag of flowers be better? How many grams for 19 ltr's?


----------



## twizt1d

pellets are fine as long as you put them in a hop bag that they cant escape from
if you use a bit of fishing line to hold the hop bag mid-keg you can pull it out as soon as you get the effect your after, the fishing line wont mess up the seal with the keg lid either (as long as its of the thinner variety anyway)
doing it that way you can go a bit heavier on the amount your using and just whip it out when it hits the mark your after


----------



## Logman

Ok thanks mate, might try a bag with 50g of cascade pellets and see what happens. Got a near new hop bag there so not much will escape.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## MastersBrewery

tonesbrew said:


> cascade (US) and nelson work well together




my fav so far has been nelson and amarillo just yummy!


----------



## wbosher

Quite keen to try this one. My LHBS is having real trouble sourcing some types of hops at the moment but NZ ones are plentiful.

I'm not much of a wine drinker, just don't like the stuff. This doesn't taste too much like a sav does it?

Also, I've got about 30g of Cascade in the fridge. Someone mentioned that cascade and ns go well together, can you point me to any examples? 

Cheers


----------



## sponge

wbosher said:


> Someone mentioned that cascade and ns go well together, can you point me to any examples?



Have a try of a fat yak, thats a combo of NS and cascade if you havent already.

Theres a recipe for a clone on the DB here


----------



## chunckious

Knappstein is awesome!


----------



## big78sam

wbosher said:


> Quite keen to try this one. My LHBS is having real trouble sourcing some types of hops at the moment but NZ ones are plentiful.
> 
> I'm not much of a wine drinker, just don't like the stuff. This doesn't taste too much like a sav does it?
> 
> Also, I've got about 30g of Cascade in the fridge. Someone mentioned that cascade and ns go well together, can you point me to any examples?
> 
> Cheers



Holgate Mt Macedon Ale uses cascade and NS


----------



## wbosher

What about this one, does it taste too much like a sav (wine)? Or quite beery...if there is such a word.


----------



## hsb

I've had good results mixing Cascade and a Noble in the kettle to soften the fruit salad factor. 
Maybe with Nelson might help tone it down? Or total sacrilege to mix Nobles and New World hops?


----------



## tbetland

I have a heap of Bsaaz ,cascade and Amarillo in the freezer. Would you guys use one of these or wait untill I can get my hands on some NS


----------



## wbosher

Bottled some of this about a week ago, I forgot to add the irish moss and is cloudy as hell.  Usually after a week in the bottle I can read a book through it.

Oh well, I'm sure it won't affect the taste too much, just looks ugly. Look forward to a sample in another week or so.


----------



## thedragon

Bottled this one back in about August last year. Didn't really enjoy it at the time: tasted quite earthy, not bad, just not my cup of tea. With the benefit of about four months in the bottle this has turned out to be quite enjoyable. 

Not sure if is because the hops have mellowed or if my taste has changed. Soundwave, if you didn't tip your batch of this it might be worth revisiting.


----------



## soundawake

thedragon said:


> Bottled this one back in about August last year. Didn't really enjoy it at the time: tasted quite earthy, not bad, just not my cup of tea. With the benefit of about four months in the bottle this has turned out to be quite enjoyable.
> 
> Not sure if is because the hops have mellowed or if my taste has changed. Soundwave, if you didn't tip your batch of this it might be worth revisiting.



This beer ended up being freaken delicious and refreshing. It didn't ended up too floraly, (is that a word?) probably because I stuck to the normal hop addition times but am a no/slow chiller (the cube gets tossed in the pool to cool down over an hour or two.) So the bitterness was probably higher than usual which is good for me, without too much white wineyness.

Just knocked off the last bottle yesterday. Will definitely brew again.

And the grain bill I thought was a really good base, I will use it again to try out different hops.


----------



## Nick JD

I find that Nelson works better (ironically) in huge amounts. In low IBU, all-nelson beers I don't like the sav blanc flavour, but in a 70 IBU IPA the sav blanc wine flavour turns into citrus ... big whacks of citrus, and the cat piss is gone.

Don't ask me why. I think a lot of things change character when used in large amounts. Coriander does the same in cooking IMO.


----------



## stux

Just about to mashout 13KG of grain for a Galaxy Summer Ale 

230g of Galaxy and should knockout 68L


----------



## fletcher

what is the best temp to ferment this one at? i'm guessing with the us-05, 18ishC is preferred; or lower?


----------



## stux

i'm a convert to 19C for fruity ales 

Gets you a fast 10 day ferment, with a nice balance of fruit and crispness

(but that's wort temp... not exterior temp)

Been getting good success with WY1272 as well. Find it better than US-05, with significantly better flocculation


----------



## fletcher

Stux said:


> i'm a convert to 19C for fruity ales
> 
> Gets you a fast 10 day ferment, with a nice balance of fruit and crispness
> 
> (but that's wort temp... not exterior temp)
> 
> Been getting good success with WY1272 as well. Find it better than US-05, with significantly better flocculation


cheers mate,

i have a batch that i'm about to bottle now with us-05 so i'll probably just grab some of that and re-use it for now - just to keep it cheap and easy. cheers for the tip about 1272 though. might try it with another one.


----------



## chunckious

Stux said:


> i'm a convert to 19C for fruity ales
> 
> Gets you a fast 10 day ferment, with a nice balance of fruit and crispness
> 
> (but that's wort temp... not exterior temp)
> 
> Been getting good success with WY1272 as well. Find it better than US-05, with significantly better flocculation


So Stux, do you set your temp @ 18C to achieve interior wort temp of 19C?


----------



## stux

Chunkious said:


> So Stux, do you set your temp @ 18C to achieve interior wort temp of 19C?


I set temp to 19C +-0.5c (my controller only does 0.5C, i would use 0.3C with an STC), with a long thermowell through the lid, where the temp probe is dropped, which reads the wort temp. The thermowell is positioned half way between the outside wall and the centre of the fermenter... and about 1/3 up from the bottom, so I figure that's a median temperature.

I heat the fermenter with a heatbelt just above the tap, and chill it with the fridge.


----------



## jkmeldrum

Planning on brewing this one in a few days time. 

Just a question regarding the 0 min addition (10mins after flameout) - what do you guys do with the earlier hop additions ... Do you take them out at flameout?.... Then wait 10 mins and add 0 min addition for 20 minutes on its own?

Cheers

Molly


----------



## joshF

Molly alot of people would be confused by your question so i'm assuming you are using a hop bag. If you're using beer smith for example, it's going to calculate the IBU's based on the hops being in the boil for the whole duration of the boil.

Therefore just add the 0 min hop additions and start chilling (i've also never heard anyone call a 0 minute addition a 10 minute addition, otherwise it would be listed as a 10 minute addition....)

Would help to know if you're no-chilling or using an immersion chiller too, as this will help others answer your question.


----------



## jkmeldrum

Hi JoshF

Sorry I might've sounded a bit vague.

In the brewers notes for Ross's Nelson summer ale recipe in this database he states the final hop addition (which is called 0 minute in the database) as actually being added 10 mins AFTER flameout and steeped for 20 minutes prior to chilling. So my question is - are the 80 min additions and so forth actually staying in the solution for that whole extra 30 mins after flameout? I've just never heard of a hop addition going in this long after flameout and being steeped for 20 mins. 

And yes I do put my hops in hop bags, so was wondering whether the earlier hop additions leading up to flameout should be taken out at flameout and just leave the final (0min) addition in the wort for its 20 minutes?

Ross, if you're monitoring this thread - I'd appreciate your feedback also.

Cheers

Molly


----------



## dicko

Molly said:


> Hi JoshF
> Sorry I might've sounded a bit vague.
> In the brewers notes for Ross's Nelson summer ale recipe in this database he states the final hop addition (which is called 0 minute in the database) as actually being added 10 mins AFTER flameout and steeped for 20 minutes prior to chilling. So my question is - are the 80 min additions and so forth actually staying in the solution for that whole extra 30 mins after flameout? I've just never heard of a hop addition going in this long after flameout and being steeped for 20 mins.
> And yes I do put my hops in hop bags, so was wondering whether the earlier hop additions leading up to flameout should be taken out at flameout and just leave the final (0min) addition in the wort for its 20 minutes?
> Ross, if you're monitoring this thread - I'd appreciate your feedback also.
> Cheers
> Molly


Quite often aroma hops can be added to the hot wort at around 80 deg and steeped for 20 minutes and then chilled to pitching temp.
This will generally give you excellent hop aroma to the finished beer.
Kind of a poor mans hop back if you know what I mean


----------



## jkmeldrum

Thanks dicko

I think I'll take out all the previous additions and do as you say.

Cheers

Molly


----------



## mckenry

Molly said:


> Hi JoshF
> 
> Sorry I might've sounded a bit vague.
> 
> In the brewers notes for Ross's Nelson summer ale recipe in this database he states the final hop addition (which is called 0 minute in the database) as actually being added 10 mins AFTER flameout and steeped for 20 minutes prior to chilling. So my question is - are the 80 min additions and so forth actually staying in the solution for that whole extra 30 mins after flameout? I've just never heard of a hop addition going in this long after flameout and being steeped for 20 mins.
> 
> And yes I do put my hops in hop bags, so was wondering whether the earlier hop additions leading up to flameout should be taken out at flameout and just leave the final (0min) addition in the wort for its 20 minutes?
> 
> Ross, if you're monitoring this thread - I'd appreciate your feedback also.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Molly


No, dont remove any hops. No need. After 80 mins, the bittering effect is finished anyway. The shorter times will be calculated for in the recipe. So, by removing anything you will change the recipe. For example if there is a 5 min addition, it would be calculated to be in the wort for the entire 35mins. As it is flameout after 5mins (from this example) basically (not exactly) you get 5 mins worth of bittering and 30 mins worth of aroma out of that hop. Removing them would reduce the aroma/flavour aspect of that addition. As I said, not exactly how it would be in practice, but you get the idea I hope


----------



## Droopy

Have put down a Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale using, for the first time, the Mangrove Jacks American Ale (M55 I think). Hope it comes out just as good if not better than previous batches


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Katie said:


> mmmmm try it with galaxy


I made it with NS, the hop bitterness is there, maybe a bit bitey for my virgin AG palate, but it still drags me back for more and more...I'm not sure if it's too much of a bitey hops forward taste or not compared to the original (haven't tasted the original yet), but I'd definitely add the bitterness additions a bit later next time to make it slightly more quaffable IMO. I like the idea Katie, I'm going to try this one with galaxy and then citra as it's a really nice brew and as I think Ross pointed out, a good brew for trying different hops.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

I tasted the beer in person circa 2010 and I thought it was very nice but very bitter.

Now it wouldn't register on the radar bitterness wise.

Nothing to do with AG newbie, everything to do with lupulin-threshold shift.


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I tasted the beer in person circa 2010 and I thought it was very nice but very bitter.
> Now it wouldn't register on the radar bitterness wise.
> Nothing to do with AG newbie, everything to do with lupulin-threshold shift.


That's a golden post Goomba, thanks, it's nice to have some terminology to explain what's happening to my evolving palate too (still virgin-ish though). two years ago anything non-megaswill was too hoppy (bitterness and taste) for me and SWMBO. Now we love IPAs (haven't tried a double yet, but keen to), and the NSSA is growing on us literally with every glass it seems, I bought some megaswill beer last night (I don't think I'll bother in future) and I wanted more of everything hops can provide in it... Last week SWMBO drank a mega-swill, looked in the glass and said "not enough hops!" She was dead right imo too, not enough anything in it, not enough bitterness, taste or aroma.. and it was a lightbulb moment for both of us that something was happening to our taste preferences...WHAT HAVE YOU PEOPLE DONE TO US?!?! 

The other night she called from Uncle Dan's and asked if I wanted anything, I did a quick google of their IPAs and some reviews and asked her for a few of the Feral Brewing Hop Hog, what a great beer that I wouldn't have liked two years ago probably, now I'm on a mission to try every respected IPA I can! 

so I'm sure after playing with the hop additions for this recipe and aiming for a little lower IBUs, in a brew or three we'll be back at the original hop additions, craving some hoppyness. It might have been something wrong with my brewing technique too? JMaybe by the end of the keg I won't change anything lol. Galaxy will be next probably though, anyone tried Simcoe with this recipe? Thoughts? One thing I did do was no-chill and throw the FV (have bought cubes since) straight into my brew fridge, someone pointed out that this might not be the best method, so my last brew I just left the cubes outside overnight to cool.

We had a blind-tasting beer night after work (it was great, blind as in blind-scoring, not as in dribbling saliva down the front of my shirt, yelling at people that I love them), we tried a heap of local and international tasty (craft I guess is the right term? Dunno) beers like little creatures bright ale, fat yak pale ale etc, then the last beer was a megaswill, which is historically a pretty good session beer for me and other people at the tasting but after all the amazing flavours of the other beers, the megaswill scored very poorly.

It's 4:27am, I'm probably rambling, not enough sleep thanks to a mongrel-guts barking incessantly down the road which has become its nighttime hobby lately, so if any part of this post didn't make sense, sorry! 

Do I like this recipe though - yes.

Will I brew it again - absolutely.

Do I hate the owner of that dog down the road right now - bloody oath.


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Stux said:


> Got my third batch of NSSA kegged the other day. Good news is I'm pretty happy with my No Chill version now. Tried mixing it up a bit for the 2nd batch... and went back to my original version, and yes, its good. Good Aroma, Flavour and Bittering
> 
> I use 5 additions.
> 
> The key is to use a french press to add the aroma back into the fermenter after krausen dies down. I place the hops in a french press (ie coffee plunger) fill with boiling water, stir and let stew for 1 minute, press and pour into the fermenter, then refill the plunger, stir and let stew for 5 minutes, repress an repour.
> 
> I would use no more than 10g per cup. Ie if you have a 4 cup press, only use 40g at a time!
> 
> My hop additions are
> 
> 60 min, 20 min, 5 min and whirlpool. The whirlpool is done 10 minutes after cutting the heat, and I let the whirlpool sit for 10-20 minutes before siphoning into my cubes.
> 
> When calculating the first four additions I enter them into BeerSmith as 70 min, 30 min, 15 min and 0 min, and then essentially I add the hops 10 minutes later than indicated.
> 
> Used pellets this time, last time was flowers, similar results.
> 
> for a 60L batch I used
> 
> 
> 15g 11.3% 70min 7.3 IBUs
> 40g 11.3% 30min 14.4 IBUs
> 55g 11.3% 15min 12.8 IBUs
> 80g 11.3% 0min 0 IBUs 1.15g/L (end of boil vol)
> 80g 11.3% aroma 0 IBUs 1.33g/L (fermenter vol)
> 
> total of 34.5 IBUs
> 
> (remembering that the hops are put in 10 mins later than indicated on the recipe)
> 
> Calculate your last two additions based on End of Boil and Fermenter volumes, then the previous 2 additons to target the rough IBUs, then the first addition should bring you up to about 34.5 IBUs
> 
> Polychlar BrewBrite, Wyeast Nutrient and Wyeast 1272.
> 
> Ferment at 17.5C for 2 weeks, then crash to 0.5C for 1 week and keg.
> 
> Yummy


Hey Stux, thanks for posting in such great detail right through this thread, posts like this (and others by other members) really help me as a new AG brewer and I really appreciate it.

Nick.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

There is a caveat to lupulin threshold shift. Well 2 really.

Even if IPA remain your favourite beer (as they have with me), they aren't the centre of the brewing universe - so it means that you have to make an effort to try the robust porters, cream ales, real Boh Pils of the world. Otherwise you'll turn into a hipster  - there is still beauty in simplicity.

2nd big one - every so often, embark on a palate cleansing week or fortnight - something to reset the tastebuds down, so that you can still taste hops. I usually choose Boag's Draught to do this, though I have done it with Coopers Sparkling or the resurrected beers from the majors (Brisbane Bitter did it for me a few years ago). It gets you back to 20IBU and you can try all beers again with a clean palate.

Oh, my Mrs is the same with IPA, I've still got to educate her yet. She had the bling bling the other day and only remarked afterwards that she felt like it was higher in alcohol than it tasted.


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> There is a caveat to lupulin threshold shift. Well 2 really.
> 
> Even if IPA remain your favourite beer (as they have with me), they aren't the centre of the brewing universe - so it means that you have to make an effort to try the robust porters, cream ales, real Boh Pils of the world. Otherwise you'll turn into a hipster  - there is still beauty in simplicity.
> 
> 2nd big one - every so often, embark on a palate cleansing week or fortnight - something to reset the tastebuds down, so that you can still taste hops. I usually choose Boag's Draught to do this, though I have done it with Coopers Sparkling or the resurrected beers from the majors (Brisbane Bitter did it for me a few years ago). It gets you back to 20IBU and you can try all beers again with a clean palate.
> 
> Oh, my Mrs is the same with IPA, I've still got to educate her yet. She had the bling bling the other day and only remarked afterwards that she felt like it was higher in alcohol than it tasted.


I just had a porter and a stout, both from club members and they were both exceptional, two years ago I thought a porter carried your luggage, now I can easily have a few, couldn't drink them all night though. I haven't had a cream ale yet, have seen some recipes so might try it.

Last glass of NSSA tonight from a full keg and it wasn't as bitey-bitter, really really enjoyed it, have a few litres in another keg that I haven't keg hopped, I'll keg hop that with a few grams and try my best to leave it for six days, not sure if I'll have any luck there though! Ten days till I can keg my latest batch though, it's the "sticks and stones" recipe by Daemon, one cube galaxy, one cube simcoe. fortunately will have two full kegs of it though!


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Oh forgot.. Not clear but yummy!


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Nicko_Cairns said:


> I made it with NS, the hop bitterness is there, maybe a bit bitey for my virgin AG palate, but it still drags me back for more and more...I'm not sure if it's too much of a bitey hops forward taste or not compared to the original (haven't tasted the original yet), but I'd definitely add the bitterness additions a bit later next time to make it slightly more quaffable IMO. I like the idea Katie, I'm going to try this one with galaxy and then citra as it's a really nice brew and as I think Ross pointed out, a good brew for trying different hops.


This beer has probably been in the keg now for six weeks at a guess, I finished a partially full keg a while ago but this second keg has really just shifted into fifth gear, or awesome mode.. The bitterness is balanced and smooth and this brew is a real winner. I will absolutely brew this again and as Ross suggested I will try different hops as I go. The next time I brew this I will try to ignore the keg for a month before drinking.


----------



## Ciderman

What's the latest hop schedule on this beer? I see the mash addition has been removed?


----------



## hobospy

First attempt at BIAB and I'm planning to use this recipe, bit late to change my mind as I've put in my grain order :-D Just wondering if there is a change to the recipe specified as there seems to be a number of posts stating mash out temperatures of 72/76/78C but this doesn't seem to be mentioned in the recipe itself. Is it OK to mash fully at the specified temp for 60 minutes or does there need to be a step up and if so which temperature should I be aiming for?

Thanks,

Christopher


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

Hi hobospy,

You'd almost certainly be fine with a 60 minute mash but you'd get better efficiency with a mashout. There's a good post on the reasoning somewhere in the monster BIAB thread, by thistyboy. My basic understanding is the enzyme activity will increase as you ramp the temp up, until you start denaturing (killing) them.

The Summer Ale recipe calls for a 64C mash, which is relatively low so many would increase the mash length to 90 minutes regardless.

I made the leap to BIAB about this time last year (20 brews done now) and typically will mash for 90 minutes and then mashout at 78C. It takes about 20-22 minutes to ramp up to 78C on my system, 40L Crown urn with a concealed element.
It works for me. You have to heat your liquor to a boil anyway, so if you can gain some efficiency by agitating your mash while ramping up to mashout then why not? If you are going to do it just beware when adding your heat that you don't scorch your bag.

I've recently brewed this grain bill for a couple of single hop beers, using Riwaka and Mosaic. As Ross says it's a really good grain bill for getting a feel for what a hop variety brings to the table. It's also a pretty simple bill which would be perfect for your first crack at BIAB...good luck!

Plenty of others on here with more expertise and experience to add than me, but that's my 2c.

Cheers,

Ken


----------



## Ciderman

I'm not BIAB but I found the 64 degree temp was too low. I may have lost a degree in the mash but it fermented all the way out to 1006.


----------



## hobospy

Thanks for that Ken. I'm actually going to be using a 40l Crown with a concealed element so that is a good reference point. Think I will do as suggested and move the mash time out to 90 minutes, should the ramp up time be included in this 90 minutes or should it start after you have had the mash at 64C for 90mins?

And pardon my ignorance, just ordered my first brewing reference type book, but what does it mean when it ferments to lower numbers? Is it just a drier/not so sweet beer?


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

I start the ramp after the ninety minutes. For me it then takes about another 20-22 minutes to get up to 78 while agitating the whole time and then I turn the power off, get my pulley ready, tie off the bag and hoist. I don't rest it for 10 minutes or anything at that temp. I found the post I mentioned earlier and have copied it below. TB says there's no point in a rest once you're up to 76-78 and his logic (and experience) is good enough for me.

The lower final gravity tends to mean a drier beer with less body. Which may be what you're after depending on the style you're going for.
My two efforts at this grain bill have both finished up at 1010.

Good luck, and let us know how you go.

Cheers,

Ken


Thirsty Boy, on 04 Apr 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:




Thirsty Boy said:


> practicalfool, on 03 Apr 2012 - 7:51 PM, said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The purpose of the mashout is to a) Denature the enzymes and lock in the sugar profile & B) make the mash runnier.
> 
> point a) would make me think that the 10 minutes is to ensure all the enzymes are killed & to ensure all of it has reached that temp so there aren't any dense colder spots left over.
> 
> 
> 
> no its not - not in BIAB anyway.
> 
> mashout in BIAB is about 2 things. Efficiency and starch conversion.
> 
> *Starch Conversion* - BIAB is not the ideal mash environment - people can bleat and moan all they like, but it isn't. BIAB also misses the vorlauff step that a normal mash/lauter tun has and finally BIAB radically disturbs the mash bed during the lauter process.
> 
> All of which means, that there is a reasonable chance of there being some unconverted starch and that any unconverted starch in the mash (and if you mention an idodine test at this point, you dont actually know how they work) is far more likely to end up in the boil kettle with a BIAB brew than it would be with a mash/lauter tun brew.
> 
> So - you intensify your mash and make sure you convert all your starch. The way you do it, is by increasing the temperature of the mash beyond the gelatinisation point of even the really resistant starches, by stirring to access the physically trapped and isolated starches and by doing this gradually over a period of time to give the remaining enzymes (which will be working overtime in the increased temperature environment) time to convert the starches as they are gelatinised.
> 
> _Take 10 minutes or so to constantly stir your mash as you raise it to a temperature of 76-78� _and something along the lines of all your starches will be liberated, just in time for the last gasp of the dying enzymes to convert them to sugars.
> 
> This doesn't require any rest period at the "mashout" temperature - there is no point to a rest. There is a point to constant stirring and a gradual raise in temperature. So any mashout you might do that doesn't involve both these things is more or less pointless and I would just skip it.
> 
> *Efficiency* - well, your mash is more intensive, you convert more starch to more sugar, and your lauter is at a "normal" lauter temperature.... it all works just a little better than if you dont do it and I would expect a bump in efficiency (measured in the kettle) of say 3-5% by doing a mash out vs just. pulling the bag at the end of a 60 min mash. Less return for effort if you normally mash for 90min, but still a little.
> 
> Do you "need" to do it?? Hell no! But its something that I think constitutes good brewing practise and will make it _more likely_ that you will end up with fault free beer that resembles the beer you were trying to make.
> 
> 60 min mash
> Raise gradually with constant stirring to 76-78�
> Pull Bag
> 
> Adds maybe 5 mins to your brew day and in return you get a modest efficiency bump and a tick in a box for consistent quality brewing practise.
> 
> TB
Click to expand...


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## hobospy

Thanks for that, will let you know how I go, probably won't get a chance to get this done till next weekend as I have two brews in my fridge at the moment but will post back on how it all went / results


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## Nicko_Cairns

Hi guys, I'm thinking about brewing this again but raising the IBUs to about 65 and turning it into an IPA, any dramas doing that with this recipe? (As I'm fairly new to AG).

Thanks!


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## sponge

No problems, you'll just need to balance it out by increasing the grist and OG.


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## Nicko_Cairns

Thanks mate.


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## udev02

Made this brew over the weekend. I've done it in kit format before and really liked it. This time the full grain version. Target final volume was 40 liters, got 43 liters. Too much water in the batch sparge. Original gravity of 1048, bit below my target of 1052. Can't wait to try it.


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## PurpleHaze

Just about to give the Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale a go...

INGREDIENTS
Lager Malt 1.7kg
Pale Malt Blend
Crushed crystal grain
Nelson Sauvin Hops
American Ale Yeast

That is the kit that I have bought.
I've also managed to get my hands on some pure Water with no additives.

Just wondering if anyone recommends anything to add to this?


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## Milk-lizard84

I'm currently enjoying a batch of this at the moment. Didn't think it would taste so nice as I dumped my cube into an unsanitized fermenter. Was cursing black and blue but prayed for a christmad miracle and it turns out Jebus did save me or the brew gods. 
It's a really simple recipe with great results. Thanks to who ever created the recipe.


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## Milk-lizard84

Doing some gardening today which I hate but nothing softens it when enjoying a brew that turned out great. Love this recipe and will definitely brew again.


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