# Seeking Opinions On K&b Pale Ale Recipe



## bum (8/4/09)

Nicked this recipe from a user of another board. I was just hoping to get some idea as to what I can expect from this (you can safely assume that I expect the answer to be "Beer"). My first time using crystal and hops so I'm making sure I keep it simple for this one.

1.7kg Coopers Pale Ale tin
1kg Light dry malt extract 
100g Crystal malt (steeped for 20 minutes) 
100g brewing sugar 
25g Amarillo hops, steeped for 10 mins with the LME.
Will probably use Safale S-04, otherwise it'll be the kit yeast.

Should it be a good'un or no?


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## .DJ. (8/4/09)

using an american ale yeast would be preferable. But as long as you keep the S-04 in the low temp range you should be ok..

However, I would be inclined to do a small boil for 10-15mins with about 15g of the hops to offset the sweetness of the malt and crystal..

And I'd drop the brewing sugar.. its not going to add much, if anything to your brew. Save it for priming bottles...


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## petesbrew (8/4/09)

I just did one pretty much the same.
Again, if you can get S-05 (or US-56, it's also called I think), that's the american yeast. 
As above leave out the brewing sugar.

Tastes very nice, especially if you throw another 15g Amarillo in the fermenter after a few days for more hop flavour.


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## Pennywise (8/4/09)

Yep, US-05 is deffinatly a must, I make that exact brew (minus brewing sugar) quite a bit if I don't have time for an extract of partial. Turns out a bloody ripper, haven't tried dry hopping in the fermenter yet but will next time :icon_cheers:


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## bum (8/4/09)

Thanks for the replies, guys! I'll drop the brewing sugar and I'll make the dry hopping and short boil variations too.

I'm kind of committed to either the S-04 or the kit yeast. What would you do?


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## Pennywise (8/4/09)

S-04 will still make a nice beer IMO, but US-05 really does let that hop flavour through alot more. What would I do? Go and buy some US-05


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## brendo (8/4/09)

bum said:


> Thanks for the replies, guys! I'll drop the brewing sugar and I'll make the dry hopping and short boil variations too.
> 
> I'm kind of committed to either the S-04 or the kit yeast. What would you do?



The S04 - being an english yeast - is going to favour the malt and scrub out some of your hop flavour/aroma.

You might be able to overcome this with the dry hopping post fermentation to bring some of this back if you go down that road.

US05 will favour the hops rather than the malt as it is pretty neutral.

I would almost be tempted to go the kit yeast - but if you do use the s04, keep the ferment temp low to avoid the esters and keep it nice and clean.

Cheers,

Brendo


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## bum (8/4/09)

Ok, I'll check my LHBS for the US-05 but they seem pretty dedicated to the K&K thing so we'll see. If they don't have any I'll probably go with the kit yeast as SWMBO won't touch it if it turns out too malty. Thanks again.


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## .DJ. (8/4/09)

if they have 04 they will have 05...


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## bum (8/4/09)

I got the S-04 from Craftbrewer when I bought a fridgemate and some other stuff. I used one sachet in another brew and I thought I'd use the remainder in this one.

I just called the LBHS and they have some so I'm golden.


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## dj1984 (8/4/09)

US-05 and S-04 are both dry yeast made by th same company, if they have S-04 they should have US-05.


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## petesbrew (8/4/09)

dj1984 said:


> US-05 and S-04 are both dry yeast made by th same company, if they have S-04 they should have US-05.


It's a red, or pink pack from memory.
You'll love the recipe.


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## PostModern (8/4/09)

Leave the dextrose in! It'll offset some of the crystal's body. That kit finishes pretty high from memory, so I'd be inclined to leave it in, or even increase the amount.


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## bum (8/4/09)

Ok. I'll put the 100g dex back in - if it helps, great, if not it looks like it can't do much damage per say. (Yeah?) 

I got some US-05 from the LBHS. When I got home I discovered the Best Before was the end of March. Urgh. I guess I'll rehydrate to see if it is still kicking before I pitch?


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## .DJ. (8/4/09)

the dex wont hurt.. not sure that small amount would help either?? 

The yeast should be fine...

GOOD LUCK!


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## bum (9/4/09)

Thanks!

I just put it down. I upped the brewing sugar up to 200g (probably still too little to do anything helpful but I didn't want to over do it with the fermentables) and did the small boil on the hops for 10 minutes or so. OG=1044 - what do you guys think I should be expecting to see for the FG? Will dry hop with 15g of amarillo after easter.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions/info.


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## chappo1970 (9/4/09)

On ya Bum!
Say 1010 to 1014 with good temp control a sprinkling of patience.


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## bum (11/4/09)

Well, during all the stuff I had to do for the first time I forgot to rehydrate the US-05 so I took a punt and just pitched it dry. Turns out that was a bad idea. I think it turns out the yeast was too old after all. I see no signs of fermentation whatsoever - no krausen forming, the temp of the fermenter is staying the same as the fridge (which has never happened to me before, it usually stays a few degrees higher) and no airlock movement (which I know is not the best way to assess fermentation but it has always moved for me before).

Has it been sitting too long to bother re-pitching? I'm guessing it has been in the danger period for infection for a very long time (38 hours or so).


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## chappo1970 (11/4/09)

Patience. What temp are you at?


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## bum (11/4/09)

19/20 degrees. Well, that's what the sticker says anyway. Pitched at 24/25. I've never had a brew (in my admittedly limited experience) take this long to take off.


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## chappo1970 (11/4/09)

US05 can be a slow starter in my experience and your temps good. Maybe leave it another 24hrs and then contemplate repitching. Did you take a hydro reading before pitching? Could be worth a check?


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## bum (11/4/09)

Hydrometer still on 1044. I guess I'll just sit on it.


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## Gavo (11/4/09)

I often find that the stick on thermometers read a little high. So 19 - 20 could be 17 - 19. Good temp just may take a little longer to get started.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## bum (12/4/09)

There is _finally_ a little krausen forming around the edge of the fermenter. Maybe due to its age there were only a few viable yeast cells? Should I expect fermentation to take longer too? Not that I am too concerned about that, the plan was to leave it 2 weeks anyway, so that more hop particles could drop out.


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## mwd (12/4/09)

Looks O.K. to me so far, I use 05 lots and at lower temps takes at least 48hours to show any activity and then just gets on with it with no ballistic foaming just maybe 2 inches max.

Just check it each morning if it gets to 16C it will go really slow and steady.


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## bum (12/4/09)

Excellent. 

Not so worried now it is moving.

Thanks for the advice, guys!


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## chappo1970 (12/4/09)

Patience Grasshopper!


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## bum (12/4/09)

But I'm thirsty NOW!


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## chappo1970 (12/4/09)

FFS bum... get another 3 fermenters and never be thirsty again, yeah!


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## bum (12/4/09)

I'll raise that with the Finance Minister at the next budget allocation.


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## Cocko (12/4/09)

Bum,

There is no option, you need another 2x 30L and 1x 60L needed!!

US-05: Well worth the wait!

Hang in there!

B)


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## chappo1970 (12/4/09)

Tehehehehe!


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## petesbrew (12/4/09)

bum said:


> I'll raise that with the Finance Minister at the next budget allocation.


$15-30 (for a 2nd fermenter) should just make it a petty cash claim.


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## bum (12/4/09)

Chappo said:


> Tehehehehe!




Ok, I DEFINITELY need a drink now.


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## chappo1970 (12/4/09)

Seriously Bum,
If ya really get in to HBing and listen to some of the advice on here you'll never want another commercial brew again. I cycle thru 6 fermenters a month with my brewing producing about 60 to 80lts. If ya can spare the $20 buckeroonies and get a second fermenter for rackin' etc and you'll be popping out fantastic brews and enough qty to keep in the good oil.


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## manticle (13/4/09)

How much for a beer maid?


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## bum (17/4/09)

It was sitting on 1014 for 3 readings straight. I felt that was a little higher than it should be and presumed the yeast had stalled. Brought it back up to 20deg last night and rocked the fermenter and just now the gravity is showing a 2 point drop. I'm not so much worried about the brew, I only bring this up to see if this sheds any light on the yeast slightly past Use By situation? Does this make it look like the yeast was not ideal or is it just one of those things and the yeast just couldn't be arsed and decided to have a nap? Was brewing at a steady 17/18 (hard to be exact with the sticker thermometer).


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## gava (17/4/09)

Chappo said:


> Seriously Bum,
> If ya really get in to HBing and listen to some of the advice on here you'll never want another commercial brew again. I cycle thru 6 fermenters a month with my brewing producing about 60 to 80lts. If ya can spare the $20 buckeroonies and get a second fermenter for rackin' etc and you'll be popping out fantastic brews and enough qty to keep in the good oil.



what? no one doing the gag?? OK I'll do it..

"Nice Jugs" there its done... :icon_chickcheers:


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## brendo (17/4/09)

bum said:


> It was sitting on 1014 for 3 readings straight. I felt that was a little higher than it should be and presumed the yeast had stalled. Brought it back up to 20deg last night and rocked the fermenter and just now the gravity is showing a 2 point drop. I'm not so much worried about the brew, I only bring this up to see if this sheds any light on the yeast slightly past Use By situation? Does this make it look like the yeast was not ideal or is it just one of those things and the yeast just couldn't be arsed and decided to have a nap? Was brewing at a steady 17/18 (hard to be exact with the sticker thermometer).



fermentation slows right down at the end... can take a few days for those last few points. 1012 should be OK, you did the right thing in getting it to rouse up activity.

The other option sometimes is to rack to another fermentor (speak to the Minister for Finance and War about that) - the agitation can spur the yeast on and get you those last few points.

So... it looks like you are good to go, bottle it, put it away and forget about it for a good 4 weeks or so and get started on brew #2.

Brendo


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## bum (1/5/09)

I cracked one of these last night. Maybe a bit young still (unless I stuffed it somehow) but definitely shows promise. I noticed something about the crystal and the hops. Since I've never used either prior to this brew perhaps someone can shed some light for me:
The first glass out of the bottle was a little sweeter/maltier than expected and the second glass was more bitter/hoppier than the first (but not unpleasantly so). Should I roll the bottle Coopers-style to combine the two distinct flavours I got from my pours? There wasn't much in the way of sediment (I ended up finning it just to give the process a crack, never done that before either) so I'm not too concerned about that.


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## chappo1970 (1/5/09)

bum said:


> I cracked one of these last night. Maybe a bit young still (unless I stuffed it somehow) but definitely shows promise. I noticed something about the crystal and the hops. Since I've never used either prior to this brew perhaps someone can shed some light for me:
> The first glass out of the bottle was a little sweeter/maltier than expected and the second glass was more bitter/hoppier than the first (but not unpleasantly so). Should I roll the bottle Coopers-style to combine the two distinct flavours I got from my pours? There wasn't much in the way of sediment (I ended up finning it just to give the process a crack, never done that before either) so I'm not too concerned about that.



Excellent result bum!
Between the pours your beer is probably warming up. Warmer beer will release more aroma and flavour and I think that's what you are experiencing. If like the first pour better then put the bottle back in the fridge between pours else if you like the warmer flavours take the bottle out of the fridge a little earlier before have a slug.

Nothin to worry about and I bet your happy with the results?


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## bum (1/5/09)

I see what you're saying but the bottle went back in the fridge between pours. Also, I forgot to mention the first pour was clear as a bell and the second looked more like I expected, cloudy like a CPA (but quite a bit darker).

Yeah, I'll be happy enough to drink it - and even happier once it is drunk!


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## chappo1970 (1/5/09)

bum said:


> I see what you're saying but the bottle went back in the fridge between pours. Also, I forgot to mention the first pour was clear as a bell and the second looked more like I expected, cloudy like a CPA (but quite a bit darker).
> 
> Yeah, I'll be happy enough to drink it - and even happier once it is drunk!



Well you've got me there? Cloudiness could be due to yeast suspension and the flavour profile difference could be the fact your palate has adjusted to the initial taste and your now concentrating on the different flavours. But the colour change is completely weird? 

Send me a sample or 10 and let ya know what I find  .


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## staggalee (1/5/09)

bum said:


> I cracked one of these last night. Maybe a bit young still (unless I stuffed it somehow) but definitely shows promise. I noticed something about the crystal and the hops. Since I've never used either prior to this brew perhaps someone can shed some light for me:
> The first glass out of the bottle was a little sweeter/maltier than expected and the second glass was more bitter/hoppier than the first (but not unpleasantly so). Should I roll the bottle Coopers-style to combine the two distinct flavours I got from my pours? There wasn't much in the way of sediment (I ended up finning it just to give the process a crack, never done that before either) so I'm not too concerned about that.



Why don`t you just get one of these?







stagga.


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## bum (1/5/09)

Good idea, stagga, and one that is already on my mind (but not as a solution to this). Dunno if I like the idea of committing to a jug every session. Maybe a stein big enough for a whole longie would work just as well.

It is not just me becoming accustomed to it, Chappo. My missus tried both (one sip, she wasn't drinking) and screwed her face up after the second and said "Urgh! This one is bitter. The first was sweeter." She didn't know it was the same bottle. I'll do the Cooper's roll tonight if I can't be arsed getting a bigger glass. If anyone's got any ideas why my beer might be doing this I'd be happy to hear them. 

EDIT: As for the colour, both glasses were probably exactly the same in that regard. I was just meaning that it was quite a bit darker than a CPA.


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## staggalee (1/5/09)

bum said:


> Good idea, stagga, and one that is already on my mind (but not as a solution to this). Dunno if I like the idea of committing to a jug every session. Maybe a stein big enough for a whole longie would work just as well.



Getting the right size jug is the secret, mine holds a 750 ml. bottle with about 2 inches headspace, $5 at Sunday markets.

stagga.


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## bum (1/5/09)

I tried the roll (a number of times now) and it seems to have improved things immeasurably. But I'll keep testing it a few more times just to make sure. Science first!

Looks like the jug idea will be a winner. I'll get on it tomorrow.


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## bum (2/5/09)

Found a 1lt glass jug at Big W. $3.65 - score! It's a bit more of a milk jug than beer jug shape but it'll do the job.


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## Dazza_devil (2/5/09)

staggalee said:


> Getting the right size jug is the secret, mine holds a 750 ml. bottle with about 2 inches headspace, $5 at Sunday markets.
> 
> stagga.


Or just brew with stubbies and use a good beer glass.
Cheers


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## bum (2/5/09)

Well, I'm hoping its not going to be a phenomenon that gets repeated but that's a good solution too. Thanks, Boagsy!


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