# question for yeast cake pitchers



## mongey (20/11/18)

ok. so I've never pitched onto the cake before . but research looks like its one of those things that's a no no but seems to be generally fine according to people who actually do it . same as BIAB and no chill were moons ago. 

Have a 1050 belian pale ale with wlp550 that I will bottle then planning to chuck a 1078 duvel citra triple hop inspired thing right on top at the same time 

to those that do it , do you wipe up dried krausen from the side of the fermenter first , or do you just go all in raw dog style ?


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## altone (20/11/18)

mongey said:


> ok. so I've never pitched onto the cake before . but research looks like its one of those things that's a no no but seems to be generally fine according to people who actually do it . same as BIAB and no chill were moons ago.
> 
> Have a 1050 belian pale ale with wlp550 that I will bottle then planning to chuck a 1078 duvel citra triple hop inspired thing right on top at the same time
> 
> to those that do it , do you wipe up dried krausen from the side of the fermenter first , or do you just go all in raw dog style ?


I normally only do it if I'm making a beer similar to the last - but go all in - just as likely to add infection trying to "clean" the fermenter as do any good imho.

edit: Oh and I only do it once - don't want to push my luck too far.


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## mongey (20/11/18)

altone said:


> I normally only do it if I'm making a beer similar to the last - but go all in - just as likely to add infection trying to "clean" the fermenter as do any good imho.
> 
> edit: Oh and I only do it once - don't want to push my luck too far.


Cheers

I think they are similar enough. The pale ale was 75% Pilsner while the 2nd is 85% with some Dex. Even hop wise the pale was magnum and Saaz. I’m gonna use the same as a base in the Duvel , left overs , but add citra late and dry hop


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## YAPN (20/11/18)

I asked myself the same question. Ended up getting another FV and just scooping half a cup of slurry into that. Now that I've gone all-grain my processes have changed and I might take another look at the idea.

Let us know what you decided and how it worked out.


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## mongey (20/11/18)

YAPN said:


> I asked myself the same question. Ended up getting another FV and just scooping half a cup of slurry into that. Now that I've gone all-grain my processes have changed and I might take another look at the idea.
> 
> Let us know what you decided and how it worked out.



Will do. Gonna brew it this weekend and picth it next weekend When I bottle the pale ale. See if I hold my nerve. Lol.


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## philrob (20/11/18)

Pitching onto a yeastcake will mean you are overpitching, which will deliver its own issues. 
Better to harvest about 100 to 150 mil of the old cake. Then clean and sanitise your fermenter, and you'll be off to a good start by pitching your saved yeast.


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## goatchop41 (20/11/18)

philrob said:


> Pitching onto a yeastcake will mean you are overpitching, which will deliver its own issues.
> Better to harvest about 100 to 150 mil of the old cake. Then clean and sanitise your fermenter, and you'll be off to a good start by pitching your saved yeast.



Not necessarily. It completely depends on both the volume and OG of both the first beer, and the second.
Pitching a high gravity beer on to the cake from a low to mid gravity beer isn't really a worry with over pitching. It's pretty much just making a big ass starter


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## mongey (20/11/18)

Plenty beers have 2l starter. I usually have 2l left over after bottling. Is it that much different in pitch size ?


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## altone (20/11/18)

mongey said:


> Plenty beers have 2l starter. I usually have 2l left over after bottling. Is it that much different in pitch size ?



Well yes probably, because you're talking suspended yeast in beer vs settled yeast cake.
But I think it would be hard to overpitch especially as you're throwing a higher gravity wort on top of it.
That's another reason I don't do it more than once, as the yeast and trub quantity is greater after the 2nd ferment

edit: sorry don't know how the other quote ended up in here.


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## mongey (21/11/18)

altone said:


> Well yes probably, because you're talking suspended yeast in beer vs settled yeast cake.
> But I think it would be hard to overpitch especially as you're throwing a higher gravity wort on top of it.
> That's another reason I don't do it more than once, as the yeast and trub quantity is greater after the 2nd ferment
> 
> edit: sorry don't know how the other quote ended up in here.


fair enough

I have actually lost my nerve a little. I checked on the pale ale yesterday arvo and its been a pretty active ferment, there is krausen everywhere in the fermenter. might need to scoop out slurry and give it a clean


also on the yeast cake thing. as there is fermented beer mixed in can you damage the new beer with oxidation of the old beer when tipping in the new wort ?


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## goatchop41 (21/11/18)

mongey said:


> I have actually lost my nerve a little. I checked on the pale ale yesterday arvo and its been a pretty active ferment, there is krausen everywhere in the fermenter. might need to scoop out slurry and give it a clean
> 
> also on the yeast cake thing. as there is fermented beer mixed in can you damage the new beer with oxidation of the old beer when tipping in the new wort ?



1) The krausen won't matter much. Don't stress too much about it.

2) There shouldn't be too much beer left in there at all on the cake, so such a small amount shouldn't have knock on effects to the next, especially if it's a high gravity beer with bold flavours.
If you're really worried, you can just pour some of the remaining beer out/drain it through the tap so that you've just got the cake remaining


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## Pokey (21/11/18)

Taste the first beer when bottling, if it tastes good, no hint of an off flavour it's all good.
Have a look at your fermentor as well, if it's mouldy etc. it's obviously bad and should be cleaned.

I suggest trying it out and seeing how it works for you


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## altone (21/11/18)

mongey said:


> fair enough
> 
> I have actually lost my nerve a little. I checked on the pale ale yesterday arvo and its been a pretty active ferment, there is krausen everywhere in the fermenter. might need to scoop out slurry and give it a clean
> 
> ...



I think @goatchop41 gave a great response before. 
As for scooping out slurry, make sure everything that touches that slurry is squeaky clean and fully sanitized. Don't dip your hand in there 
Clean/sanitize the fermenter and repitch as quickly as you can.


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## shacked (21/11/18)

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html - select the repitching from slurry option.


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## Indian Giver (21/11/18)

Have done it many times. And a number of methods. Straight onto cake, slurry cup and skimming krausen.

With overpitching - if you don't mind the yeast having little effect, not a drama. The other issue is if the yeast cake gets so big that it sits at or above the tap level on the fermenter.

With Slurry, make sure everything is sterile.

I've also skimmed krausen at peak (from a lower gravity beer - a mild and an APA) onto higher grav beers (RIS and IIPA). Both of the recipient beers were in a comp and got a gold and bronze respectively. The high krausen really really takes off quickly as it's the best of the best and the lower gravity beer effectively is a starter.


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## shacked (21/11/18)

Also on overpitching, it may not give you off flavors necessarily; however, some strains of yeast do better when there is an element of yeast cell count growth in the early stages of fermentation. By pitching an entire cake, you are going to get solid fermentation but you may get very little or no cell count growth. In my experience, the phenolic strains like Belgians like a bit of growth (but that's not to say that underpitching is a good strategy).


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## altone (21/11/18)

shacked said:


> Also on overpitching, it may not give you off flavors necessarily; however, some strains of yeast do better when there is an element of yeast cell count growth in the early stages of fermentation. By pitching an entire cake, you are going to get solid fermentation but you may get very little or no cell count growth. *In my experience, the phenolic strains like Belgians like a bit of growth* (but that's not to say that underpitching is a good strategy).



That is a very useful bit of info there, as it looks like you have a lot of experience with Belgian styles.
I do mainly English and American except when my mojo is high and then it's normally pilsners


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## mongey (21/11/18)

shacked said:


> Also on overpitching, it may not give you off flavors necessarily; however, some strains of yeast do better when there is an element of yeast cell count growth in the early stages of fermentation. By pitching an entire cake, you are going to get solid fermentation but you may get very little or no cell count growth. In my experience, the phenolic strains like Belgians like a bit of growth (but that's not to say that underpitching is a good strategy).



damn it I get ready to go all gung ho commando and someone actually talks science and knowledge

so I looked at mr malrty 

og 1.078 4.5 gallons (17 L) 
thin slurry 
non yeast I just left where it was cause I don't know 

it came back 262 ml 

so I sanitize a jar and lid . scoop out say 275 ml of slurry . 
quick clean fermenter . 
then pitch wort and said slurry ?


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## altone (21/11/18)

mongey said:


> damn it I get ready to go all gung ho commando and someone actually talks science and knowledge
> 
> so I looked at mr malrty
> 
> ...



That will work mate, but so would pitching straight on top of what's in your fermentor already.
This isn't real science, look at all the rubbish beers the big guys make that are - well questionable.

Like food it's part science, part art and part going with what you've got.
The more you do it the more you realize what will and won't give you a good result


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## shacked (21/11/18)

altone said:


> That is a very useful bit of info there, as it looks like you have a lot of experience with Belgian styles.
> I do mainly English and American except when my mojo is high and then it's normally pilsners



English strains benefit from some yeast growth too!!


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## shacked (21/11/18)

mongey said:


> damn it I get ready to go all gung ho commando and someone actually talks science and knowledge
> 
> so I looked at mr malrty
> 
> ...



Fire away... and bring some over to my place for “review” haha


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## mongey (21/11/18)

shacked said:


> Fire away... and bring some over to my place for “review” haha


I def owe you a couple Longnecks. Been waiting till I think the product is worthy. I got apretty tart saison that ain’t too bad


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