# Spiced Apple Cider Recipe - Help - Wanting Feedback



## Pickaxe (19/1/14)

Hi All,

Trying to put together a cider recipe and finding a lot of differing opinions, so I making blind decisions, wanting some feedback.

22L Apple juice. Probably Aldi.

Now I'm thinking that a tea steeped in 2L water with:

500g Cracked Crystal Grain
3 x black tea bags
4 x Cinnamon Sticks
6 x cloves
small amount of chopped ginger
Maybe some honey?

Strain - boil to sterilise for about 5 minutes.

Pitch with ? US05 I have, but get mixed reports from that?
Seems consensus is to go with a champagne or cider yeast?

I'm looking for something with a little sweetness to it. Some suggest US04.

To be honest, I'd rather stick with dry yeast my first one, rather than spending the cash on wyeast.

Any suggestions from the Cider heads would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
pickaxe.


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## TimT (19/1/14)

Probably better to go with a bunch of different juices for flavour - even better if you used fresh apples, of course, and even if you don't want to do the whole lot from fresh apples you may find it worth your while to throw in a small amount of fresh apple juice - go for the tart apples that DON'T taste like they'd be good for juice or dessert, as that's where a lot of the cider flavour comes from, especially apples like Pink Ladies and Crab Apples that have tannins in them. It'd be easy because apples will be ripening soon anyway.

I'm curious about the crystal grain - are you going to mash it for a bit? And why put it in the cider - to add a spicy/biscuity/toffee sugary flavour?

Considering all the other ingredients (ie, plenty of sugar) I don't know why you'd put honey in - it's a complex and unpredictable sugar and can take quite long to ferment - it would probably be safer to stick with the other ingredients.


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## manticle (19/1/14)

Go easy on the cloves.

Keep it simple - you can always add spices in later but you can't take them out.


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## Green-Lobster (19/1/14)

a 1 in 8 ratio on pear juice as added. Save the honey for when you rack of . cold extracted. ikg for 22-27 L
a real vanilla stick opened .Use the ceylon cinnamon . citrus zest, juice to taste. dont be shy i used blood oranges this year . goes for all spices .
Time . temp control.
I used a wheat yeast ale, dry pack last autumn as well as 4 others types. thats the one winng this seasons taste test. could have something to do with stawberry kiwifruit additions .
i used green tea . 1kg of sliced up grannies 2nd barrel.
To far into a sunday session to make any more/less sense.
ps . give it more time . drinking, 29/7, at time pear haze dropped right out .
cheers .


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## Pickaxe (21/1/14)

Read and heard in the cloves. 

Yeah the crystal was to try and add some toffee or caramel. Should I mini mash it high and get sweeter unfermentables? Thought just a steep would help with that? 

Vanilla sounds nice, might have to throw a bean in.

Yeast is hard one though. Little temp control here, so I'm hoping for something that might give fruit esters, * flame suit on *. 
Wheat yeast might be nice throwing banana? Apple banana cider? Maybe a coopers starter? 

pickaxe


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## TimT (21/1/14)

I'd probably go for a wine yeast. They're stronger and made for booze that will last and develop over time - which cider usually is.


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## TimT (21/1/14)

Check out the great yeast list Bribie G linked recently. Might find some ideas


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## superstock (21/1/14)

As said, drop the honey. I'd halve the cloves and save the cinnamon for the secondary ferment. Also add some citrus juice or acid.


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## Airgead (22/1/14)

TimT said:


> I'd probably go for a wine yeast. They're stronger and made for booze that will last and develop over time - which cider usually is.


Yes...and no.

Wine yeasts generally have a higher tolerance (14-16%) BUT most lack the enzyme for metabolising maltose which means they may actually leave things sweeter than a beer yeast if more complex sugars are present (like from crystal malt).

Aging ability is more about the ingredients and how the wine/beer is made than anything to do with the yeast. Many wines don't age well and many beers do. For something you want to age, you generally want higher levels of tannins and other polyphenols which react over time to form more complex compounds and also act to protect the drink from damage (usually oxidative damage). Generally higher alcohol as well.

On the other hand, some wine strains do have some very desirable characteristics like the ability to partially metabloise malic acid into less harsh tasting acids which will lower the perceived acidity of the cider.

Different strains also produce different levels of other fermentation products like esters and higher alcohols which will have an impact on flavour and mouth feel (and aging ability).

The short answer is - its complex.

Cheers
Dave


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## TimT (22/1/14)

Complex but fascinating Dave.

When I get round later this year to turning out a few braggots I'll bear this very much in mind.

However, from this -

_For something you want to age, you generally want higher levels of tannins and other polyphenols which react over time to form more complex compounds and also act to protect the drink from damage (usually oxidative damage). Generally higher alcohol as well._

I'd say, you are generally describing a wine. Usually more tannins - and almost always higher alcohol.

I have to learn more about this ageing bizzo though - I'm fascinated by how my scrumpy cider developed over last year to a very tasty and fragrant drop indeed, and how my meads are gradually ageing into something with body and depth.


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## Airgead (22/1/14)

Wine does have those properties (some wines anyway... a lot of wines, think sav blanc for example, don't), but so do ciders made with extra acid and tannin (either as additions or from good apples). So do some styles of beer like barleywine. So do some meads

You can add those nice compounds through aging in oak. Or by adding additional tannins or acid, or through your selection of ingredients. or your choice of yeast...


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## TimT (22/1/14)

YEAST can add tannins? Woah dude.

Major headspin. And I haven't even drunk anything. You are better than alcohol, Dave!


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## Airgead (22/1/14)

Not tannins... but other compounds that are desirable in aging. Tanin is just one class of desirable compound. There are other polyphenols (tannins are a polyphenol as well), esters, aldehydes, higher alcohols...

Lots of things impact aging and some of them come from yeast.

Cheers
Dave


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