# Cider Sample Tastes Sour... Does This Mean Infection?



## lukemarsh (30/5/10)

I made a cider a couple of weeks ago using Black Rock cider + 300g lactose + 500g dextrose + 2L fresh homemade Granny Smith apple juice at 20L total vol. The OG was 1.045 and the FG now is 1.011 and has been sitting on that for the last few days. When I tasted a sample about a week ago, when the gravity was still around 11, it was sweet and really nice. I went away for a few days and came back to find the cider had cleared nicely and was probably ready to bottle (has been in fermenter for around 2 weeks). I took a sample to check FG and tasted it and it was surprisingly sour, like the kind of sourness you get when you first bite into a citrusy fruit (or when you eat an apple after brushing your teeth, for example). It didn't taste like that before. Does this mean the cider is infected? I don't see how this could happen because it is tightly sealed and has been kept in my cellar which is 18 deg constantly and dark and dry.

Cheers!


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## manticle (30/5/10)

Cider needs time. The reason it tasted sweet before is that there was unfermented sugar in there. Ciders tend to ferment pretty dry - the lactose would pull it back from that a touch.

Sourness could be an infection or it could simply be youtasting unmatured cider. Do you have a fridge for cold conditioning? I find this helps massively for the maturation process. Otherwise leave it a couple more days, prime then bottle.

One more thing - you say it has cleared but cider can go right down in gravity readings. A fresh based one can drop below 1000, kits will probably stop a little higher. Make sure it's finished before you bottle.


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## lukemarsh (30/5/10)

It's been sitting on 1.011 for probably just under a week though, it doesn't look like it'll go much further... I've got a fridge but there is a lager in there at the moment, the thing is I need to bottle this cider soon so I can use the fermenter for racking my lager! So in a bit of a pickle...


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## manticle (30/5/10)

My experience of many brews is that some just take longer. Bottling before something is ready is asking for trouble.

If you are desperate you could try bottling without carbonating - a risk you'll end up with still cider and no guarantee that 1011 is low enough to avoid explosions. I know people do it but I've never done it myself and so wouldn't recommend it on that basis. Alternatively try the stuck ferment assessment trick suggested here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry637350

Could be it's finished, could be it's slow. Ferment rates often slow right down at the end in the same way it takes 20 minutes to get 10 litres of water to 85 degrees and another 20 minutes to get it to 95.


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## lukemarsh (30/5/10)

manticle said:


> Alternatively try the stuck ferment assessment trick suggested here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry637350




I tried a few things back when the gravity was around 1.018... I gently swired the fermenter and put it on the heat pad for a couple of days. This got it down pretty much to where it is now and my only observation is it _may_ have budged .001 of a notch since my last reading about 4 days ago, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's enough to say it's still kickin... it's not that much of a noticeable amount, more like trying to decide whether the curve of the liquid is on the line or above it kind of thing.

Would adding a teaspoon of sugar to see if it'll bubble up do any good in this sitch? Or will sugar bubble up anyway? I dunno what that'll do in this case because I've only done it once or twice for a brew and it was still fermenting... if this cider _has_ finished, would adding a bit of sugar make it bubble or does that only happen when it's still fermenting?


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## manticle (30/5/10)

If you add sugar to finished beer when bottling (rather than beer to the sugar) it will froth so I doubt the addition bubbling would indicate anything.

Did you read the link? I've just taken a sample for an ESB that seems to be stuck on 1020.


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## lukemarsh (30/5/10)

I read the mostpart of it... I'm just too impatient to do the bottle fermenting sample trick! The guy at my LHBS said 9 days for fermentation with my ingredients, but of course, like instructions on the packaging, this can often be wrong.

Would it be risky to bottle today? I've never had exploding bottles yet, and some of my beers have finished/stopped very close to 1.020... that was pre-heat pad days though!


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## manticle (30/5/10)

Sorry mate I can't tell you your cider's finished and even if I did it wouldn't mean that it actually is.

I suggest waiting but if you're too impatient then do whatever you feel. At the very least wrap each bottle tightly in glad wrap to contain any potential mess and glass and keep them away from kids and pets.

They'll probably be fine - who knows?

If when you crack one, you find it overfizzed, get the rest in the fridge ASAP.


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## lukemarsh (30/5/10)

Yeah I know what ya mean, maybe if I can actually get me bottles together and muster some enthusiasm I might bottle tonight... but if not I'll wait. I tend to schedule brew days around work so today turned out to be a perfect time.
Thanks for the help!


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