# New To Brewing



## TmC (16/3/11)

Hi all, 

Im relatively new to brewing, actually very new started on saturday with a coopers kit.  I found it so fun that i bought a 30 litre water container and some other carbouys that were on special and fitted taps and airlocks for fermenters. I have a few questions about one of my brews i started. I used Morgans Australian Lager kit with 500gm of brewblend No2 malt mixture i think, and 250gm honey, used 12gm Pride of Ringwood. I also put in the juice from 2 limes, 1/2 lemon and 1/2 and orange and it has stayed at 26-27 C. I have been reading a lot of forums and they all seem to suggest that this it too high, I am also a bit concerned that i put in too much fruit juice because it smells like fruit cider (was going for more of a carona lime taste). I have been taking the SG everyday and it has come down from 1035 to 1008 after 3-4 days. I want to leave this in primary for at least 2 weeks as i am brewing faster than i can find bottles and i read somewhere that fruit additions take longer to ferment? 

I have had to restrain myself from visiting the HBS shop everyday to once a week, it seems everytime i walk in i walk out with a lighter wallet. Have many more questions but that should do for the moment :icon_cheers: 

Toby


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (16/3/11)

2 comments:

1. If you want lime in your beer (ala corona), then put a slice in it when you are drinking it. Putting citrus into beer tends to (from my experience) give it a nasty acidic taste and unbalances the yeast.

2. Brewing at 27 degrees is a big no-no (unless you have purchased a yeast strain that likes that temp). It gives you a metho like taste to the beer. I live in Brisbane and temp control is really only achieved at this time of year using a fridge with a temprite. Given that yeast turns sugar malt water to beer, it's the most important ingredient in your brew, so selecting a yeast where you can give it the best environment is key to a good beer.

Finally, if you do purchase hops, a "hop bag" isn't fantastic value as they are usually $5-$8 for 12g of (sometimes not fresh) hops (equiv to 42-66 per gram). Purchasing hops in 90g packets (and making your own "tea bag" should you wish) is worth around $8-$11 (11-12 per gram - i.e. around 1/4 to 1/6 the price). And they are usually fresher.

Welcome to the hobby/obsession. ^_^ 

Goomba


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## Pennywise (16/3/11)

Firstly, welcome TmC.

Yeah mate, those ferment temps are pretty high, and may be adding to the fruit juice aroma. have a read through this section which should have a lot of answers for you in regards to fermenting procedure.

Also, some lhbs are not all that well practiced in that art of zymurgy, so best to take any info with a grain of salt untill you can find out yourself, or on here.
Note the sponsors up the top of the page are very knowlegable, and helpful


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## Camo1234 (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Im relatively new to brewing, actually very new started on saturday with a coopers kit.  I found it so fun that i bought a 30 litre water container and some other carbouys that were on special and fitted taps and airlocks for fermenters. I have a few questions about one of my brews i started. I used Morgans Australian Lager kit with 500gm of brewblend No2 malt mixture i think, and 250gm honey, used 12gm Pride of Ringwood. I also put in the juice from 2 limes, 1/2 lemon and 1/2 and orange and it has stayed at 26-27 C. I have been reading a lot of forums and they all seem to suggest that this it too high, I am also a bit concerned that i put in too much fruit juice because it smells like fruit cider (was going for more of a carona lime taste). I have been taking the SG everyday and it has come down from 1035 to 1008 after 3-4 days. I want to leave this in primary for at least 2 weeks as i am brewing faster than i can find bottles and i read somewhere that fruit additions take longer to ferment?
> 
> ...




Mate I did the Morgan's blue mountain Larger kit for my first brew and it fermented around 28c for just over a week... I tasted like very dodgey old XXXX and was not drinkable... The more I researched the ferment temp was clearly the reason for this. Following that I bought a fridge off ebay for $100 and a temp controller for under $50 and now my last two brews have been very nice... The more you read, the more you will see that the temp is the first thing that you want to get right... I would scour eBay for a second hand fridge and get that before pouring nay more money into wasted kits.... There are other options to keep the temp down like water baths and ice and eskies etc but for $150 you simply can't beat a fridge for ease!


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## Milky11111 (16/3/11)

Wow that's quite a recipe for your very first brew.

Knock down your temperature to around 18-21*C most lager kits use ale yeast which work best at these temperatures. Yes yeast works well at ~27*C but it will add unwanted flavours in your brew.

For fruit, well I don't know much about adding fruit to brews at all, but I have read you should give it some more time if fruit is added as the yeast ferments the natural sugars in fruit. Someone posting below will no doubt clear this up for you though.

You also don't need to take SG readings everyday, you don't want to waste to much of your brew testing. If there is krausen and airlock activity then just let it go until it slows/stops then rely more on SG readings.

For bottles, I use plastic ones from my LHBS, less mess if they blow, they come to around $17 for 15x 740ml bottles. If you want some glass stubbies though hit up your local recycling center they usually sell bottles.


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## Gormand (16/3/11)

Welcome to the obsession  

From everything I have read here fermenting at that temperature is too high and will produce some off flavours (Perhaps that homebrew tang everyone talks about) using towels, cold water and icecubes you can drop the temp. Even just throw the fermenter in a bath of water should cool it down a fair chunk. People say you should get down to around 18, so far all my beers have been at 22 and have been fine, so aim for at least there (I now have a fridge to brew in for all future brews so will be able to hit 18)

Once the readings stay stable over 2-3 days you should be ok to bottle, and I wouldnt expect too much more of a drop from 1008. I ended up buying 95% of my bottles from the brew shop, but am now trying not to do that quite as much  I have 80L+ sitting around the house aging so I should have beer to drink soon.

Also as for the smell, it should be fine aroma does not always mean flavour. I added some orange zest to some bottles and got a wonderful organge aroma in the glass but almost no orange flavour, however lime in the bottle had the opposite effect, great taste but poor aroma. Dont be afraid to experiment, but make sure you get that temperature under control.

Edit : Also checkout gumtree for fridges if you go looking, got mone for $60.


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Thanks for the quick replies. 

I may have a solution to get the temps down, i have access to a 15 C coldroom which i might be able to store my brew in, is that too low? If so i will look for an old fridge. I have a few possible places to get bottles, i went out to one of the popular resturants and asked for empty bottles, one said come back on friday and saturday night 11pm and pick as many as i want up, not sure how many i get but taking the ute just in case! I know taking SG readings everyday isn't necessary but i enjoy it and i like to see how the brew smells and looks through a clear surface. 

Are there any types of beer that are suitable to ferment at 24-26 C?

Toby


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> Thanks for the quick replies.
> 
> I may have a solution to get the temps down, i have access to a 15 C coldroom which i might be able to store my brew in, is that too low? If so i will look for an old fridge. I have a few possible places to get bottles, i went out to one of the popular resturants and asked for empty bottles, one said come back on friday and saturday night 11pm and pick as many as i want up, not sure how many i get but taking the ute just in case! I know taking SG readings everyday isn't necessary but i enjoy it and i like to see how the brew smells and looks through a clear surface.
> 
> ...



A saison may ferment at that temp. BribieG has an All Grain recipe that you can probably amend to kit that does ferment at higher temps.

Realistically kit yeasts are okay, but aren't the best (and you don't get enough yeast as a rule). A 11-12g packet is usually better quality and states the temp range it likes to brew at.

For example, if you can ferment at 15 degrees, then Nottingham dry yeast (range of 14-21 degrees) will ferment ideally at 15 degrees (I did it last winter, and it is a fantastic yeast at these temps). But ferment at 26 degrees (as I did this summer) and the results are awful.

So select a yeast that is 1. Within style of beer you'd like to produce; and 2. Within the temp range you can manage.

Yeast is the single most important part of brewing, it is worth knowing what you can use, what it does, how it affects beer taste and worth spending the extra couple of dollars to get the right result.

When you get more adept, then you might go into liquid yeasts, yeast slants and the like. But in the short term, just pay $3-$4 for a decent 11-12g packet of good quality dry yeast and knock out some good beers using good yeast and good temps.

Goomba

Edit: Clarity


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## Gormand (16/3/11)

Its more about the yeast the then beer style, although certain yeasts lend themselves to different beer styles so I guess thats the restriction put in place  All the kits typically come with an ale yeast even if they are classed as lagers.
The 15 degree coolroom will be too cold for some yeast, they will slow down and take weeks to ferment out (Im not sure on flavour issues with fermenting too cold) or they may stop fermenting, so chat to the LHBS and see what yeast they have that will work well at that temp and then maybe lookup what styles work best with that yeast.

Thats the problem with this hobby, the more you learn the more you realise you need to learn, Ive been at it just over 3 months and am heading into AG (BIAB) territory, and damn if that doesnt have a learning curve.


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## Milky11111 (16/3/11)

A cool room is more suited to lager yeast which ferments well at around the 12*C-14*C mark, for ale it's probably too cool. 24*C-26*C for most kit brews will come out ok, but the flavour will be alot better the closer you get to 18*C. A fridge with a temp controller is a great thing if you can get one.


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## TmC (16/3/11)

I never knew how many possibilities there was to brewing, its awesome. My local HBS isn't that helpful, there was a 18 year old girl at the counter which showed me where things were but didnt know much more than i did from the coopers kit. I take it most yeast work better in sub 24C degrees then? I am going to look for a fridge because i cant wait until winter to continue brewing. If i could find a yeast that worked at 26C which is the average temp i am getting in the garage then that would be great but if not i will just buy a fridge, need to find somewhere to put it. I will talk to my boss about hiding my brew in his coldroom :lol:


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## Gormand (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> I never knew how many possibilities there was to brewing.



yep neither did I until I found this place. Read a lot and ask lots of questions, people here are generally pretty good with giving good straight answers.


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## earle (16/3/11)

There's a couple of HBS in Mackay, which is your local?


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## Silo Ted (16/3/11)

You might think that 26 is the temp in the garage, therefore that will be your beers temp. Not true. Once the cells srart chewing away and replicating, its not uncommon to notice a thermal spike, so your beer could actually hit over 30 . Sounds like youre keen, so grab yourself an old fridge and a $25 temp controller off Ebay. 

And if you think this thread's posing a lot of possibilities, you aint seen nothing yet ! Six months from now you'll be culturing from your own yeast bank, using all-grain (no cans) to make your wort, buying hops by the kilo, daydreaming of your national competition winning recipes and having long nights in front of the computer studying the mineral profile of Mackay's water supply :lol: 

Welcome to the hobby ! :icon_cheers:


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Sounds like a common addiction :lol: The kit came with a thermo sticker to put on my fermenter so thats what i was going by. How does the temp controller work (apart from the obvious)?


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## pimpsqueak (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> I never knew how many possibilities there was to brewing, its awesome. My local HBS isn't that helpful, there was a 18 year old girl at the counter which showed me where things were but didnt know much more than i did from the coopers kit. I take it most yeast work better in sub 24C degrees then? I am going to look for a fridge because i cant wait until winter to continue brewing. If i could find a yeast that worked at 26C which is the average temp i am getting in the garage then that would be great but if not i will just buy a fridge, need to find somewhere to put it. I will talk to my boss about hiding my brew in his coldroom :lol:



Just "accidentally" bump the thermostat up 2 or 3 degrees in the coldroom and you're set 

I'm having good results in my 26 deg shed with a large esky and a daily replacement of 2 or 3 ice packs.I've had 17-18 degree temps (of the beer, not the air) for weeks, regardless of Sydneys tendency for temp spikes. Still wish I had room for a fridge though.

Welcome to the obsession.


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## Silo Ted (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> Sounds like a common addiction :lol: The kit came with a thermo sticker to put on my fermenter so thats what i was going by. How does the temp controller work (apart from the obvious)?



Basically there's a temp probe that monitors temperature. The controller acts as a switch between the power source and the fridge, so if the probe senses an increase in temp, the device switches the circuit (for the fridge power) on to reach the preset target. Once it hits that target temp, it switches the fridge off. 

You do need to be confident enough to wire it up yourself, or have a sparky mate assist you. There are literally hundreds of posts here on advising how to get it running, and no confirmed fatalities yet. 

Check it out. 
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mini-Digital-Temper...=item2c5afd49d6


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## Yowster (16/3/11)

Temperature controller works by turning the power on and off to the fridge you have the fermenter in when the temperature reaches certain pre set limits thus enabling the temp on the fermentation to be consistent and at a level more suitable for your yeast.

And also welcome to the obsession


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## TmC (16/3/11)

I will look into it, had a look on ebay and no fridges, put an add in our local trader. Doesn't come out for 10 days, cant wait that long. I read somewhere that if i buy a large bin with water and cold packs and drape a towel over the fermenter either side so its dangling in the water, it would reduce temp?


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## poppa joe (16/3/11)

Leave the Honey out till you learn to Brew..
Cheers
PJ


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## Silo Ted (16/3/11)

And leave the citrus out.... forever :lol:


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Yeah i think thats pretty standard from now on, tastes ok but smells like fruit cordial. I will bottle it anyway and see what it tastes like in a month or so.


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## Fodder (16/3/11)

Hi TmC,

Great tip I picked up from this site for keeping temps down and stable was to sit my fermentor in the bath and fill with water till level with the wort/beer in the fermentor. Place a thermometer in the bath water (a dial thermometer on a metal spike from your kitchen works well) through a piece of foam to keep it afloat.

I ended up adding a bag of ice to the bath water to get a starting temp of 20 degrees, and have added ice bottles and blocks from the freezer every 24/48 hrs to maintain 20-22 degrees. Even when left for a couple of days, temp fluctuation is minimal.

Very cheap, (thermometer should only be about $10-15 if you dont have one handy - I pulled mine off an old milk frothing jug that doesn't see anymore use) easy and effective method that I will continue to use until I find a fridge of my own.

Good luck! :icon_cheers:


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Thanks for that, i was thinking of getting a bin of some sort and doing what you mentioned, because my wort has been at 26 for 4-5 days, is there any point in me doing this for 2-3 days? If not i will give it a go on the next batch  Might try a coopers ale.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> Thanks for that, i was thinking of getting a bin of some sort and doing what you mentioned, because my wort has been at 26 for 4-5 days, is there any point in me doing this for 2-3 days? If not i will give it a go on the next batch  Might try a coopers ale.



Realistically, this brew has been too high too long, most of the fermenting is already done.

Plan the next brew, put together all you've learned and create a beer that you can really be proud of.

Goomba


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Ok cheers. I suppose my coopers lager is in the same boat.


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## Fodder (16/3/11)

TmC said:


> Thanks for that, i was thinking of getting a bin of some sort and doing what you mentioned, because my wort has been at 26 for 4-5 days, is there any point in me doing this for 2-3 days? If not i will give it a go on the next batch  Might try a coopers ale.



Dont see why a bin wouldnt be able to work the same way. Just be mindful that because your bin is likely to hold less water than a bath, it will be more easily affected by the ambient temperature. So more frequent additions of ice may be necessary. 

Also, the first 2-3 days are probably the most important ones for your brew to be at optimal temps as this is when the majority of the activity will be taking place. At least at the temps your talking about at the moment anyways. As others have said, wouldn't bother for now. But a good setup for the next one should yeild better results.

As an aside note: You will also notice that fermenting at these lower temps will take longer for the full fermentation to take place. Expect a good week for full fermentation at 20 degrees. Check with hydrometer for consistent readings till you get at least 2-3 days stable. 

I just had one down for 6 days, measured with hydro and unexpectedly still sitting at 1020 (although i rushed the reading and didnt knock the bubbles off the hydro properly, which may have thrown it out a little). Obviously still had quite a bit to go before being finished. In total took 9 days to get down to 1008. Will test again tonight (day 10) to check stability...


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Ok, i have some frozen milk containers in the freezer so i will use them. I may also buy a bag of ice to start the cold water off, i can get 7kg for $4 so i might do that. Because i use mostly can's is 20C a good average temp for most brews? I wanted to try a stout or a dark ale, something sweet


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## bradsbrew (16/3/11)

Your not related to a fellow called Chappo are TmC?


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## TmC (16/3/11)

Not that i know of, would it be something to do with the sweet part?


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

TmC, you'll be fine just freezing a couple of 2L water bottles and sitting them next to the fermenter in the bath or something, then wrap a few towels around it like a skirt. In 40+ degree wether my fermenters used to keep at a pretty constant 20 degrees


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## TmC (17/3/11)

Thanks i will give it a try, was thinking of trying a malt extract recipe that ekul put me onto, using a large processing bin and frozen milk bottles. My fruit "stuff" is finished fermenting, SG has been 1008 for a few days, but the fruit flavour is a bit over the top. I was going to wait and bottle but i think thats a waste of time, i have a 10L cube that im going to rack some of it in because i think its going to be a waste of bottles to be honest.


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

Personally I'd bottle the lot and leave it for 6 months, it might not get to be great, but it may just turn out to be drinkable.
The bin and forzen bottles will work just as well, if not, better. I wouldn't be wasting money on buying ice from the shops though, just imo


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## TmC (17/3/11)

Ok thanks for that, Was going to go for this sort of thing:

2x 1.5 Coopers LME Tins
500g Dextrose
20g of Centennial @ 30
20g of Amarillo @ 20
20g of [email protected] 10

Try to ferment at 20C for at least 5 days. Thoughts?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

TmC said:


> Ok thanks for that, Was going to go for this sort of thing:
> 
> 2x 1.5 Coopers LME Tins
> 500g Dextrose
> ...



Looks like a good beer, though I would probably replace the dextrose with Dry Malt Extract.

What yeast are you using for this?

Goomba


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## going down a hill (17/3/11)

TmC said:


> Ok thanks for that, Was going to go for this sort of thing:
> 
> 2x 1.5 Coopers LME Tins
> 500g Dextrose
> ...



Try this- http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=867
It's a forums favourite.


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

Looks very good IMO. You'll just need to be careful with how much malt/water you boil your hops in because that will determin the utilisation of bittering compounds, what's the AA% of the hops?. I'd leave the dextrose in, add it to the boil at flame out. I'd also go for a nuetral yeast like US-05, but you'll need to keep that temp stable and low (20c will be fine).

Edit: quckie for ya

23L batch
In the boil: 10L
1 tin LME & boil hops as per recipe (I'm assuming AA% the same as Promash)

After boil:
throw in other tin & dex. Done. All in fermenter and top up to 23L

This should give you an OG of aroung 1.050, and 30 odd IBU's (depending on hop AA), and IMO a damn nice APA

Edit: How do you feel about steeping a small amount of grain? IMO it's needed for some malt complexity


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## TmC (17/3/11)

I was going to use 6 Litres of water with 600gm dex and yes using US-05. That sounds even easier, i was going to try this one but because my LHBS only has the teabag hops. Would it still work? I was keen to try steeping grain couldn't find a steeping bag, probably havn't been looking hard enough.


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

Mate, jump on one of the sponsors sites, they'll have everything you'll need to make a good beer great. Those t-bag things are rip-offs and most of the time aren't all that fresh in my experiences (admitadly, a while ago now, so things may have changed). Unless you know the AA% of the hops, I would NOT use them, but if you do, cut the bags open & let the hops move around in the boil pot. I'd also try & boil the hops in some malt extract, apparently you'll get better isomerisation, to be honest I don't think I've ever boiled my hops in plain water or dex so I can't really speak from experience, I've always used malt with good results.


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## TmC (17/3/11)

I was given some hops from a friend so i was going to try and use them until the good stuff arrives. This is what i have lying around. 

I have 2x 1.5kg Morgans Pale Lager Malt Extract
1kg Dextrose
24g of Cluster, 12 g of Cascade, and 12g of Saaz 
US-05 yeast

Anyone know if any of those combined with work?


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## RobboMC (17/3/11)

TmC said:


> I will look into it, had a look on ebay and no fridges, put an add in our local trader. Doesn't come out for 10 days, cant wait that long. I read somewhere that if i buy a large bin with water and cold packs and drape a towel over the fermenter either side so its dangling in the water, it would reduce temp?




It will help. Evaporating water absorbs a lot of heat energy.

I brewed for 18 months in the ensuite shower, and simply kept cold water around the base of the fermenter.

Worked OK for a season, but eventually you will get to a point where you want to be able to CONTROL temperature, not just keep it down a little. By all means use the wet towels method, but always be on the lookout for a spare fridge.

I also keep all my brewed bottles in a frdige, it gets turned off about April and on again in October;
to keep storage temps always below 20 deg C. In your summer garage at 45 deg C your stored brews are getting killed.


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## TmC (17/3/11)

I have a way to get it down to about 20C maybe more using ice blocks and towels. I am going to make a batch now using what i have on hand, hoepfully should turn out ok. 

3kg (too much?) Morgans Malt Extract Pale Lager
500g Dex
12g Cascade
12g Saaz
US-05 Yeast

Any ideas if it will turn out ok?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

Keep it at 20 degrees and it will work out fine.

Keep it below 20 degrees and it will take longer, but you will get something closer to "lager" rather than an ale (which will be a little more fruity on the palate).

Goomba


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

I'm wondering if you'll end up with enough bitterness, depending on when you plan on adding the hops, but assuming 12g bittering and the other 12g for flavour/aroma. You'll need more IMO


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## TmC (17/3/11)

I have 12g of Cluster, will that work?


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

You really need to get your hands on a brewing program like Beersmith or Promash for brews other than kits IMO. Both BS & PM have trial versions so you wont have to fork out any cash if you don't like it.

But yeah, I'd throw the cluster & cascade in at 60 mins and flavor with the 12g of saaz in the last 15. Then I'd be trying my hardest to get some more hops (in this case Saaz), and dry hop in about a week with more Saaz, 20-30g should suffice.

Like I said, it's kinda hard to give you anything with out knowing what the AA% of the hops are, how large the boil volume is, what the boil gravity is (ideally 1.035-1.040). I really would suggest getting Beersmith or similar, don't rush the set-up of it and you will have an invaluble tool for recipe formulation.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

Pennywise said:


> I'm wondering if you'll end up with enough bitterness, depending on when you plan on adding the hops, but assuming 12g bittering and the other 12g for flavour/aroma. You'll need more IMO



Generally with stouts they are early additions, because hop aroma is not meant to be prominent in the beer.

That should provide enough bitterness (I think, depending particularly on th AA% of the cascade), but I see your point, it isn't much. But don't forget that the dark grains add some bitterness in a stout.

Goomba


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

We're talking about stouts?


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## TmC (17/3/11)

I added cascade and cluster about 20 minutes ago, then put in saaz (probably too early) but will see how she turns out, going to add dex and rest of the extract in about 10 minutes.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

Pennywise said:


> We're talking about stouts?



Yeah, I don't over bitter them, as no-one I know drinks over bitter stout, where as everyone likes a dark ale style stout. I don't like too much acridity myself, but I do like them fairly bitter. Call it a Sweet Stout according to BJCP Style 11.2.

I do see your point though. If you want a bitter stout, it'd more than fit in with style 11.1 (or 11.3), though it does allow for variable bitterness according to brewer. The predominant thing is that there is a malty mouthfeel to it, regardless of whether it is higher or lower bitterness.

Not that I'm ever a style Nazi - just sayin' that a stout can vary from really bitter to only mildly bitter.

Goomba


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

You sure you got the right thread? I don't see any Stout ingredients in what we've been discussing :mellow:


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

I'm an idiot, I've cross threaded with the same OP.

*smacks palm onto forehead, proceeds to hurt palm*


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

:lol: hey it's usually me doing that sort of shit, lol


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## TmC (17/3/11)

Pretty much just winged it, SG ended up 1038 and im trying to get temp down to put yeast in. Have it all wrapped up in towels sitting in water with nice big ice blocks floating around. Hope this works out better than my Coopers Cat Piss.


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

If you can keep that temp down & relativly stable, it should come up fine. A bit of crystal malt and some more hops for the next one hey


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## TmC (17/3/11)

Sure is, put my order in for some centennial hops and amarillo with 1kg malt extract this morning, express post so i can try out that lager everyone seems to like


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## Pennywise (17/3/11)

Champion.

Check out Neill's Centenarillo in the recipe DB, it's a damn fine beer. Another one that's garenteed to be a cracker is DrSmurto's Golden Ale

Edit: download Beersmith and have a fiddle with it so you can get your head around it for the next brew, took me a few go's to get it right


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## TmC (17/3/11)

Thats the beer i am talking about, everyone seems to like it so i thought i might give it a go. Maybe next week.


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## TmC (20/3/11)

Had a taste of my coopers beer, tasted awful :icon_vomit: Its been about 4 days since i started my third batch of beer. Details are above, there has been no action in the airlock but i am fairly sure the yeast is still working. I currently have it sitting in a tub of water with frozen milk bottles trying to cool it down, the temp has varied from 18-20 mostly but ran out of ice and rose to 25 overnight. I am wondering how long the initial stages of fermentation take? and is temperature control as important in the later stages, days 4-9 etc? Because my tap is in the water i have not been taking hydro readings but i was going to leave it for 8-9 days as i think that would be plenty. Any help would be great


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## kelbygreen (20/3/11)

temp control is most important the first 36 hours. this is when the yeast are multiplying and eating the bulk of the sugars. After this is not so important but trying to keep a consistent temp right the way threw it ideal unless it calls for it (ie: get stuck fermentation or doing a lager). Depending on the yeast, temp and sugars will depend how long it takes. I find 10 days for ale yeast is good if its not finished by then somethings wrong. S04 I find hard to catch the kreusen it ferments fast but does the bulk fast (in like 3-4 days) and will chip away slowly at the rest might drop a point or 2 in the next 4-6 days and sinks like a rock to. I used to like US05 or 1056 but had a few just not ferment out properly and they didnt settle very well beer was cloudy after 8 days cc at .5c.

So there is to many varibles but take hydro samples is the best and have 3-4 days same gravity reading and your set. Cloudy beers are not overly worrying if you bottle as the yeast will settle in the bottle but when you keg and want to drink day or so later it becomes very important to get the yeast to drop lol


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## michael_aussie (20/3/11)

TmC said:


> Had a taste of my coopers beer, tasted awful :icon_vomit: Its been about 4 days since i started my third batch of beer. Details are above, there has been no action in the airlock but i am fairly sure the yeast is still working. I currently have it sitting in a tub of water with frozen milk bottles trying to cool it down, the temp has varied from 18-20 mostly but ran out of ice and rose to 25 overnight. I am wondering how long the initial stages of fermentation take? and is temperature control as important in the later stages, days 4-9 etc? Because my tap is in the water i have not been taking hydro readings but i was going to leave it for 8-9 days as i think that would be plenty. Any help would be great


I always leave my primary for 3 weeks.
Most will disagree with me .. but I never take SG readings.


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## TmC (21/3/11)

I was thinking i might leave it for 9 days and bottle on saturday. It looks today as if there has been a bit more fermentation, on my last batch the krausen was pretty big but on this one its just sort of a foamy film only about 1cm thick. It smells like beer so i will just wait and see. Thanks for the advice.


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## Pennywise (21/3/11)

Leave it for 2 weeks in the fermentor, this will help the yeast clean up the off flavors they produced at the start of fermentation. If your ferment started off with higher than normal/optimal temp then the yeast will produce more Acetaldehyde than it can clean up afterwards, so a bit longer in there fermentor will help get a litle more of these compounds outa there. Green apple flavor is what we're trying to avoid here. And also hangovers, which acetaldehyde is apparently largely responsible for.


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## TmC (21/3/11)

Ok, as this whole ice bucket thing is starting to drive me crazy, running out of milk bottles, do i have to do it for the whole 2 weeks or can i let the temp creep up slightly? I only have 1 bucket and 2 fermenters so my other fermenter is pretty much useless :lol:


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## Pennywise (21/3/11)

First week is most important IMO, but at the end of the day TmC, you get out what you put in. I've had a pretty good run on most of my beers that are temp controlled for the first week, then just taken out of the fridge for the remainder, so as to free up space for the next brew. After the first week, the ferment is most likely done, but the yeast still need to clean up house a bit. It's major fluctuations in temp that you'd want to avoid like the plague at this point, and any for that matter. Keep in mind, I live in Melbourne, so it's quite easy to find a cool spot for the fermentor in the house with low fluctuations if need be.


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## TmC (21/3/11)

Ok thanks, my store room is a pretty stable temp because it is brick and it sits at about 26 C most of the time, maybe creeping to 28 during the heat of the day. I will keep using this method for 1 week and then take it out to start on my next brew, i might just drape it with a wet towel to free up my ice box. Going to give neils centamorrilo (i have no idea how its spelt) a go :lol:


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## Camo1234 (21/3/11)

TMC... Just remember that there is no need to rush into your next batch... I would take the time to research everything there is to know about your next batch and get everything ready before you jump into it... It is better to wait an extra week to get it right then to rush into it and find out in 4 weeks time that you stuffed something up along the line and now have dodgey beer!

Also, you'd be better putting the money from your next few batches towards an old fridge and temp controller... You should be able to get one for around $100 and if you are moving into extract you are probably looking at around $30-$50 per batch just for the ingrediants and then add on top your labour and all you need to do is kill 2-3 batches due to poor temp control and you would have been better off investing that money in the fridge!

Just keep reading the various threads on here and the articles and grab yourself a good home brew book (plenty of threads on here) and do the research.... It will open your eyes enormously and you will be able to get an insight as to what is happening in your brews as opposed to just random trial and error.

Good Luck!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/3/11)

Camo1234 said:


> TMC... Just remember that there is no need to rush into your next batch... I would take the time to research everything there is to know about your next batch and get everything ready before you jump into it... It is better to wait an extra week to get it right then to rush into it and find out in 4 weeks time that you stuffed something up along the line and now have dodgey beer!
> 
> Also, you'd be better putting the money from your next few batches towards an old fridge and temp controller... You should be able to get one for around $100 and if you are moving into extract you are probably looking at around $30-$50 per batch just for the ingrediants and then add on top your labour and all you need to do is kill 2-3 batches due to poor temp control and you would have been better off investing that money in the fridge!
> 
> ...



+1. Take time to quantify what you need to do with a new batch, and what you did right and wrong with the old and how the research applies in a practical manner.

Remember that tool who did 20 batches in a week last year and then asked the questions. Not saying the 20 batches is the most tool-ey bit, but the fact that he just made a bucketload of beer and then slagged off any that tried to help him out.

Goomba


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## pimpsqueak (21/3/11)

20 batches in a week? Holy crap! I reckon I'd be pushing it to get 20 out in a year 

I wonder why he bothered to sign up in the first place? Bragging rights??


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## TmC (21/3/11)

Ok i tend to get a bit excited i will admit so i will wait until thursday before starting a new batch, I can rack my pale ale then. Thanks for the heads up.


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## milob40 (1/4/11)

hi tmc welcome to the forum,
i find the easiest way to improve my beers is with steeping kits from brews2u
i live in mackay and have a deep freeze and a fridge with temp controllers, 1 for brewing at 21deg, and 1 for storing kegs at 23 deg.
i you want to see how it is wired up , send me a pm, cheers


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