# Can you get decent esters during bottle conditioning?



## Mr. No-Tip (22/6/13)

I just bottled a batch of Australian Ale brewed with WLP009. I did a fair bit of reading on the ideal fermentation temperature, and came across some advice (not on AHB, maybe homebrewtalk) that suggested the ~20 degrees suggested by white labs might produce too much banana for style and to get that distinctive Coopers pear, 16 would be a better option.

I fermented at 16.8 for a couple days then ramped up to 19. The batch was of a pretty low gravity - 1038 - I think due to some crack experimentation, so I added melted dex on day three to give an equivalent OG of 1042. The grav was already around 1010 at this point.

I've bottled today and force carbed a couple bottles. They taste ok, and generally as expected, but with less fruit than an 18th century sailor. No banana...no pear....

I could harvest the cake and try another beer, but I am pretty over it to be honest and I have other beers I want to get happening at this point.

Is there any point in sticking these bottles in a fermenting fridge at say 20-25 to get the yeast still in suspension (there's a fair lot of it) to throw some fruitiness?


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## Jace89 (22/6/13)

Is the beer drinkable? It sounds ok to me. 

I wouldn't try pushing them to hard while conditioning, 20-23°C wouldn't be to bad. Just don't destroy the intire batch trying to pull eaters out of nowhere.


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## Midnight Brew (22/6/13)

How big is the batch?

Relax, drink em, ferment at 20 next time. Keep a few bottles aside to compare.


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## anthonyUK (23/6/13)

Most esters will be produced early on in the fermentation so I doubt you'd get anything out of it at this stage.


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## Nick JD (23/6/13)

Do esters break down, or do the yeast consume them in the same way they consume so many other things like diacetyl and acetaldehyde?

I was under the impression that beers like hefeweizens are seeded with fresh lager yeast that's then killed through pasteurisation so the hefe has some semblance of a shelf life.

My Krystallweizens retain their esters much longer than my hefes have; 1214 hefes also seem to retain their banana, whereas 3068 seems to eat banana up rapidly. If the ester is the same thing, then why does one yeast leave it and another eat it (if it's being metabolised).

Kinda OT, but the reason Coopers might insist on their beers being fridged immediately after 2 weeks of 2ndary fermentation in the bottle might be to retain the esters. Someone with some refs can chime in and make some sense of this, but I reckon yeast left warm eats esters.


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## Mr. No-Tip (24/6/13)

Thanks for all the replies. I think I was fishing for an answer I knew not to exist here! I have half the batch in a 24 degree fridge at the moment...carbing up pretty well already. I will probably taste on the weekend...


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## mje1980 (24/6/13)

The ester formation comes at the start of fermentation, and is also affected by yeast amount. Under pitching generally produces more esters. Once the main fermentation is done its unlikely you'll be able to produce more.


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## Adr_0 (24/6/13)

Nick JD said:


> Do esters break down, or do the yeast consume them in the same way they consume so many other things like diacetyl and acetaldehyde?
> 
> I was under the impression that beers like hefeweizens are seeded with fresh lager yeast that's then killed through pasteurisation so the hefe has some semblance of a shelf life.
> 
> ...


I like all of the above. The whole ageing/conditioning thing is essentially yeast cleaning up. During carbonation the growth and conversion phases aren't that peaky, so you're more likely to clean up flavours rather than introduce others.

Insanely OT, but what's the go with lager yeasts then pasturising? Lager yeast for fermentation and/or short cold conditioning? Zee Germans are always very sensible and have good reasons for doing things so I'm very curious.


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## tiprya (24/6/13)

Little creatures centrifuge out the ale yeast and seed with lager yeast to bottle condition apparently - I've heard it is so it can carbonate while cold conditioning?

I guess that would maintain the freshness better than having to warm condition for a couple of weeks to carbonate.


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