# Coopers Lager Toucan Feedback Required



## lczaban (6/2/09)

Hi all,

I would like some feedback about the following recipe I had in mind to try...

- Coopers Original Series Lager Kit x2
- 500g LDME
- White Labs WLP300 Hefeweisen yeast

The idea behind this would be to use the WLP300 yeast I had scrounged from a Hoegaarden clone I made up a couple of months ago in this brew. The LDME is used to counteract the bitterness of the toucan, and in doing so allow the yeast to impart some of it's flavours on the resultant brew. The key for this is going to see whether I can start the stored yeast I have got successfully. Unfortunately they were in the fridge a few weeks ago when the power went out twice in the space of about three days and fully defrosted everything <_< If the yeast isn't deemed suitable then I will probably go with either a CPA yeast starter from a couple of stubbies, or go with an S-04 dry yeast.

Feel free to put your 2c worth in on this one, whether you think my rationale is inspired or not!


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## Adamt (6/2/09)

Either save the weizen yeast for a wheat, or substitute the lager kits for wheat kits. The wheat kits are actually lower in bitterness than the lager kits, and you can probably skip the LDME if you go this option.


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## chappo1970 (6/2/09)

Gravity
Are you going to hop that bad boy? Might be worth a thought or two. I haven't tried the original lager so can't tell how the hoppiness is but fresh hops as I recently found out make a hell of a difference.

Cheers

Chappo


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## Adamt (6/2/09)

You don't want or need any hopping apart from bitterness with a weizen.


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## boingk (6/2/09)

I'd go S-33 or a cultured bottle of Belgian beer and make it a...er...Belgian.

Try a yeast from La Trappe Blond or Chimay Red and see how that works - I know the yeast from La Trappe is alright as I have cultured it myself. There's stuff all sediment though, so be careful with your pour.

Cheers - boingk


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## lczaban (6/2/09)

Chappo said:


> Gravity
> Are you going to hop that bad boy? Might be worth a thought or two. I haven't tried the original lager so can't tell how the hoppiness is but fresh hops as I recently found out make a hell of a difference.
> 
> Cheers
> ...



Hey Chappo, 

One of the reasons for not adding more hops for this is because the hop concentration is effectively doubled when you use two kit tins. A key consideration is not to overpower the brew by adding more hops. Otherwise I may as well just bite into a quince  



boingk said:


> I'd go S-33 or a cultured bottle of Belgian beer and make it a...er...Belgian.
> 
> Try a yeast from La Trappe Blond or Chimay Red and see how that works - I know the yeast from La Trappe is alright as I have cultured it myself. There's stuff all sediment though, so be careful with your pour.
> 
> Cheers - boingk



Thanks for that Boingk. I am aiming for a Belgian style with this beer, but I was unsure about whether the bitterness level doing a toucan would be too high and whether the WLP300 would be an appropriate yeast to use. Sounds like I may have a good excuse to go and buy some nice Belgian beer... :beer:


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## Bribie G (6/2/09)

During the Bris. winter I made three plain old Coopers Lager Toucans, and just used one sachet of the kit yeast. They turned out great IMHO and had a nice background bitterness.

At the time I was cranking up my beer stocks, as I only started brewing again in June, came across a great special at Big W on Coopers and bought a couple of six-tin cartons, and had lager tins to burn so tried the toucan, liked it, made it again................

It's not really bitter, the Lager is one of the lowest IBU tins. Maybe some aroma might help, perhaps some Saaz.

As far as yeast goes, if I were to make it again (which I probably will in the winter when I can brew with gay abandon without waiting for a spot in the brew fridge) then a good sturdy yeast like Nottingham or S-04 would definitely be the go.


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## Weizguy (8/2/09)

According to the Cooper's website here, this kit has 390 IBU.
OK, so I'll give them some feedback, and even allowing for a missing decimal point, a double batch will be, at 23 litre size, 78 IBUs, which is quite bitter and will need extra malt to balance it.
Coopers make these kits to be balanced when adding 1 kg of sugar, and you'll be destroying that level of balance.
At 39.0 IBUs, the bitterness is nearly triple what would be in a regular wheat beer. Even if it's an American wheat, it's too high.

I'd recommend an American ale yeast or an S-33, but the BU:GU (IBUs to Gravity points) ratio is out of whack.

My advice: brew it anyway! What the hell? Re-make it with modifications to suit your tastes, or never brew it again...

Bribie, I've made a couple of toucans, and they were OK. Thing is, I'd been making some decent wheat beer by that time, and a toucan is not up to the measure (or balance) of a well-crafted extract weizen. Just my opinion, though and YMMV.

Cheers
Les


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## lczaban (8/2/09)

Thanks for that Les. If I make it I will have to have a play with the bitterness content and figure out whether it is feasible or not. If I go ahead with this I'll keep people posted about the results. I appreciate the feedback from everyone on this - cheers!


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## mouapp12 (8/2/09)

coopers rate the bitterness of the extract rather than the extract and 23L of water, i understand at 23L its about 21 IBUs so a 2can would be 42 IBU but i've been drinking a plain larger 2can all night so my judgment may be off but i reckon it could use some dry hoping and no real need for malt unless you into particularly malty beers

but i wouldn't bother with a good yeast, that ones in your fridge should be fine for another few weeks, i doubt it got to yeast killing temps inside your fridge even if the power was off


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