# Cost To Make All Grain Beer



## pjwhite5 (12/8/08)

Hello All,

I have just brewed my first All Grain Beer (BIAB) and am just wondering what all you All Grain brewers spend on average on the Malt bill for your beers.
I have been using Beersmith to play with a few recipes and inputting the cost of grain from the various HBS in my area, and most beers are costing in the vicinity of 25 dollars in grain per brew, I understand the buying Bulk grain the cost is reduced, but just wondering what the average brewer spends on grain.

Thanks in advance

Cheers


Cede


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## Barramundi (12/8/08)

i got 5 kgs of base grain for $17 on the weekend


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## Dave86 (12/8/08)

Depends on if you pay postage on your malt, using specialty malts, etc... I use maris otter and weyermann bo pils as my base malts, more expensive, but figure it should make up for my lack of skill slightly  My last batch was made using 4.65 kg of malt for 23L (some of which was posted) and it would have cost me about $14.90 So, that works out to be $3.20/kg. Buying your base malts in bulk really is the way to go, you'll use it faster than you think :icon_drunk:


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## reg (12/8/08)

I get my grain from G&G 
I am in the grain book, which basically means I paid $130 for 50kg of grain.
When I need the grain I just give them a call and they have what ever I want cracked and waiting.
They store it and everything.
Most brew shops should do the same thing.

Reg


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## Online Brewing Supplies (12/8/08)

Dave86 said:


> Depends on if you pay postage on your malt, using specialty malts, etc... I use maris otter and weyermann bo pils as my base malts, more expensive, but figure it should make up for my lack of skill slightly  My last batch was made using 4.65 kg of malt for 23L (some of which was posted) and it would have cost me about $14.90 So, that works out to be $3.20/kg. Buying your base malts in bulk really is the way to go, you'll use it faster than you think :icon_drunk:


Also depends on your system efficiency.With good efficiency it should take an average 17 kg to make 100 liters of 1048 beer.Which equals 1.7 kg per 10 l , at the price we sell imported base malts per 25 kg bag ($3.00 per Kg), Weyerman, bairds etc it would cost locally as a pick up $5.10 per 10 L so 100 l would cost $51.00.Cheap.
GB


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## dc59 (12/8/08)

Most HBS's sell 25kg bags of JW base malt for $60. Which turns out to be $2.40 per kilo. If you get in on a bulk buy you could be paying as little as $45 for a sack, don't buy in 4 kg bags each time you brew it'll cost way to much.

I use dry yeast and normally reuse them once, so price of yeast is $2 per brew

I'm a lttle more conservative with hops than others and will generally use about 50-60grams per brew which will cost about $5 per brew (100g for $9 at my local HBS).

Including a couple dollars each brew for gas and another couple dollars for specialty grain and it probably costs me about $20 for most beers. Not bad for two cases worth of beer B)


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## jojai (12/8/08)

I've spent up to $50.00 for a brew and I would do it again, 2 cartons of full flavor beer and a day worth of fun brewing it, it's priceless. I bought bulk grain recently and I can see that making it a lot cheaper, as others have said, even hbs sell 25kg bags usually (more expensive than bulk buys, but still pretty cheap). Get a grain mill and start cracking!


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## sinkas (12/8/08)

As Jojai alluded too, but far too few seem to, unless your tighter than a fishes asshole, or a dero, the actual cost of the ingrediants is insignificant, in that the amount of your time put into making it, should be valued at many many times the ingrediants.
HAving said that, I think some HBS's her are taking the piss with 90+dollar bags of Pils malt...


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## Barramundi (12/8/08)

jojai said:


> I've spent up to $50.00 for a brew and I would do it again, 2 cartons of full flavor beer and a day worth of fun brewing it, it's priceless. I bought bulk grain recently and I can see that making it a lot cheaper, as others have said, even hbs sell 25kg bags usually (more expensive than bulk buys, but still pretty cheap). Get a grain mill and start cracking!




still 1/2 the price or better that if you had to buy an equal beer to that which you made ... 


bulk grain buying is the way to go but you also need somewhere to keep it ... for those in melbourne the grain and grape 'grain book' seems a good plan , call them for details on how it works exactly but in a nutshell you buy two bags of grain upfront and collect what you want when you want it (they require a days notice to crack it for you)until you knock off your 50 kgs , your buying bulk without the hassle of storing it and you get it fresh every time too as they dont actually put the grain aside ....


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## Back Yard Brewer (13/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Also depends on your system efficiency.With good efficiency it should take an average 17 kg to make 100 liters of 1048 beer.Which equals 1.7 kg per 10 l , at the price we sell imported base malts per 25 kg bag ($3.00 per Kg), Weyerman, bairds etc it would cost locally as a pick up $5.10 per 10 L so 100 l would cost $51.00.Cheap.
> GB




Cheap when you compare the price at around $14 per litre over the bar for megaswill, or near on $4 per litre by the carton.

BYB


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## alexbrand (13/8/08)

Hi,

I never tried to calculate the cost. I'm afraid of the result! 

Well, I mean it's a hobby...

Alex


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## Trent (13/8/08)

If I have a day off work, even just taking into account it takes about 6 hours, then you put in the $25 cost of ingredient, plus 6 hours at $25 per hour, then another 2 hours for racking and bottling, is approximately $225 for a 23L batch. 
Maybe I should give up and just buy megaswill 
realistically, if yer in this to make cheap beer, stick with K+K, or go all grain and do 1035-1040 OG, with 15IBU. An extra $10 spent on ingredients works out about an 20 cents per glass of beer - hardly worth worrying too much about. Or thats my 2c (20c?) worth.
All the best
Trent


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## stowaway (13/8/08)

Barramundi said:


> bulk grain buying is the way to go but you also need somewhere to keep it ... for those in melbourne the grain and grape 'grain book' seems a good plan , call them for details on how it works exactly but in a nutshell you buy two bags of grain upfront and collect what you want when you want it (they require a days notice to crack it for you)until you knock off your 50 kgs , your buying bulk without the hassle of storing it and you get it fresh every time too as they dont actually put the grain aside ....




Do the good guys at Craftbrewers (Ross) do this?? [or anyone in Gold Coast would be good too]


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## stowaway (13/8/08)

I got into brewing 2/3 months ago. (im going to all grain this weekend)
My costs so far (roughly. memory is a bit foggy):
Fridge $100
Original Tap/regulator Setup: $200
CO2 Bottle: $300
Second Tap: $50
Wine Fridge: $150
Fermenter x 4 : $120
Cubes x 4 : 80
Hydrometer x 3 (broke 2) : $45
Kits x 10 : 150
Malt/dex x 10: 150
yeast x 5 : 15
Misc Grain for extras: $ 10
Misc Hops for extras: $20
Easy Siphon: $15
Beer Filter: $80
Misc Hosing: $10
Sanataiser/wipes/cleaners: $20

all grain
------
Stockpot : $120
Refractometre: $60
Burner & Reg : $120
Grain&Hops for 1st grain: $20
------- 
$1745 First 3 months
------ 
Hope it gets cheaper  
People spend alot more on their hobbies tho.


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## reviled (13/8/08)

stowaway said:


> I got into brewing 2/3 months ago. (im going to all grain this weekend)
> My costs so far (roughly. memory is a bit foggy):
> Fridge $100
> Original Tap/regulator Setup: $200
> ...



People do spend more, and they dont save money at the same time, think of how much it would have cost you to buy all of those beers at the shop!!! :icon_cheers:


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## stowaway (13/8/08)

i just worked out the cost of my second ag (havent even done the first one yet)
its going to be $43 for all ingredients from craftbrewers.

im making Oscar Octoberfest (with a few adjustments.. as i cant get all the right hops)


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## Dave86 (13/8/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Very true. Was this price in bulk, or the regular kg price?



The base malt was bulk, some of the wheat malt came through the post, and a small quantity of crystal wheat purchased from my LHBS, which is about 180 k away, being the main reason I buy in bulk or through the post. Don't really have the option of ducking down if I run out of something, so have to plan in advance  

As Neville pointed out efficiency is important too in determining costs, I only get about 70% (depending on the brew), but it doesn't bother me too much, its only a couple of dollars. Once I sort out a HLT, hopefully my efficiency will increase though..

In terms of total costs, the most expensive brew I've done cost me $6.60/L being an partial imperial stout with 110g of hops in 12.5 L and an OG of 1095. Expensive, maybe. Worth it, definately! :super:


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## Screwtop (13/8/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Cheap when you compare the price at around $14 per litre over the bar for megaswill, or near on $4 per litre by the carton.
> 
> BYB




+1 "geez, it's hard to get something good for nothing"

Buy in bulk here, average $15


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## Cortez The Killer (13/8/08)

Thread on point here

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=301688

Cheers


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## Pumpy (13/8/08)

My latest brew 'Old Bugmans Aussie Ale' cost's 22 cents a middie , I cant get enough of it 

and a nice drop too !!!!

sometimes we make recipies too complicated recipies 

Often some of the simplest are the best :blink: 

Just mashed another 40 litres of it He!he!


Pumpy


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## SJW (13/8/08)

I don't care how much a brew cost to make and I could not be bothered to work it out. For me its the time I spend making it thats more valuable. I understand that some people get into homebrewing to save dollars but you should not be getting into Allgrain brewing to save dollars. AG is more about passion and the thrill of making great beer from scratch. I can't understand so called AGers banging on about saving a few cent here and there by reusing dry yeast or some other crazy idea, when if your do AG you would or should be happy to go and spend $70 on a conical flask or $100 on a Celli tap or $250 on a March pump or $500 on s/s valves and fittings or $300 on a co2 bottle or $150 on a reg. or $200 on a mill and the list goes on.
I just get anoyed when anyone starts talking about the cost of AG beer. 
Sorry to the bloke who started this thread.


Steve


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## jojai (13/8/08)

Steve, passion can exist while still cost cutting (for instance, I don't spend much at all on equipment but I've just read a thick book about the chemistry of malting and brewing, I read the yeast handbook and I've read a history of beer - I'm studying visual arts so the time spent to read those books was for the love of beer). As money isn't free flowing I'm always up for a bargain, and that doesn't reflect my attitude toward AG at all, it reflects my bank account. (When I graduate I plan on buying a good rig, but for now I'd rather have food with my beer).

Not to make any assumptions about feelncede, but the cost is obviously an issue otherwise the thread wouldn't have started.


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## warra48 (13/8/08)

Brewing is cheaper than golf. Brewing your own gets you cheaper beer than commercial stuff, and mostly it is far better quality.
I've set all my costs in BeerSmith to $0.00, so my beer is free.
My brewery was set up after I retired, as it is a post retirement hobby for me.
I've had some help, eg I did a deal with the family they'd all chip in and get me a MillMaster for last Christmas/Birthday, and I told them it was all I wanted and not to get anything else. Might try the same deal this year with a counterflow chiller.


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## beeroclock (13/8/08)

i recon use blokes spend way to much on your beerz, buy kits from bilo work is dun for you then. Suga is cheap to.


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## T.D. (13/8/08)

You're one of a kind beeroclock! :lol: :lol:


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## warrenlw63 (13/8/08)

Beeroclock, I think you're posting in the wrong forum. Just looking at your avatar. Are you from the Ozarks?  

Warren -


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## Franko (13/8/08)

beeroclock said:


> i recon use blokes spend way to much on your beerz, buy kits from bilo work is dun for you then. Suga is cheap to.



Oh my  




Franko


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## pjwhite5 (13/8/08)

Hi All again,

I would like to say thank you to the guys that gave some good estimates on how much they spend on grain, I was just after some numbers. 

I am not really concerned with the cost, as I have a pretty good setup, and slowly upgrading my 5 keg 3 tap freezer bar to include 3 cellis and 2 more kegs plus the added cost to set up to do AG . If I was trying to brew on the cheap or save money I would brew homebrand kits with a KG of table sugar.

As I really enjoy brewing and getting to sample 20 odd litres of my finest at the end of the process, I was mearly enquiring on what most AG brewer spend on Grain. 

Why spend 25 or more dollars on something that you can buy for 15 or 20 dollars ???


Anyway thanks again

Cede


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## Katherine (13/8/08)

:icon_offtopic: 

cede... I noticed you live in Holsworthy... I went to Holsworthy High and grew up in Hammondville... I noticed today someone else that lives in Wattle Grove... I cant remember his name... But his a All grainer! Could come in handy!


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## petesbrew (13/8/08)

beeroclock said:


> i recon use blokes spend way to much on your beerz, buy kits from bilo work is dun for you then. Suga is cheap to.


You don't post enough, beeroclock. Keep em coming! :beerbang:


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## Trent (13/8/08)

All comedy (if I could call it that!) aside, feelncede, the cost of each beer depends on the ingredients you put into it, etc...
You can do a mild at 1030 OG and 20IBU that will cost you maybe $15-18 or so for a 23L batch. You can do an IPA that is a 1070 starting gravity, 75IBU and has 100g of hops in the last 10 mins, along with a 50g dry hop, and will probably set you back $50-60 for a 23L batch. I have done an 1100 OG Imperial Stout at 100IBU - using lower alpha hops - that cost me somewhere in the vicinity of $90 for a 23L batch (I got terrible efficiency - was aiming for 1125!).
As an average, I guess you would look at $30 to $50 a 23L batch, I couldnt tell you for sure, as I dont really count - I buy sacks of grain, and hops often enough to have no real idea of what it costs me overall. 
As you say the cost is of little importance to you in the scheme of things, I would spend an average of $40-50 on a batch, and am very happy doing so. Maybe more than others do, but it is my honest answer to your question.
All the best
Trent
PS Butters - I am happy to call it inexpensive beer, rather than cheap 
EDIT - The reason I would spend $25 on something I could get for $15, is I generally go for the import malt (usually maris otter) and always use english crystal malts, and german munich or vienna. Probably a minimal difference, but when I brew the same recipe's with all import malts vs all australian malts (especially with a high percentage of specialty malts) I have always been happier with the imports. My experience only, so your results may vary.
Trent.


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## T.D. (13/8/08)

I generally find it works out at around the $1/L figure (although I rarely sit down and figure out how much each brew costs).

I do 17L batches mainly. I would use ~3.5kg of grain, and say 50g of hops. So that's say $8.5 for the grain, and about $4 for the hops. Then if you add in yeast, priming sugar and all that jazz, it would probably come to around $15-17 I suppose.

I always think of HB as being 50c per pint. Makes the $7-8 per pint you get charged in Sydney bars these days a bit hard to take.


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## beeroclock (13/8/08)

td mine is probably less than dollar for a litre, more suga is the key keeps it cheep and keeps them happy, me mates are sponges


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## T.D. (13/8/08)

Hey beeroclock, have you ever been tempted to try a 100% sugar beer??? Could be an interesting experiment. Would only cost around $10 for a 22L batch! :super:


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## fraser_john (13/8/08)

Personally, I try not to think of the cost, partly because it scares me to add up the $ I spend on building/rebuilding equipment, even when I get a power supply from the tip-shop for $2.50, its just another expense, however, mostly because its a great hobby! You get to make something of your own, which you get to enjoy every mouthful you drink. If you are good enough, you get to impress friends and family with a quality product, if you are really good, you can win at competitions.

All that said, when I brew a 40L batch, its costing anywhere from $30 - $80 depending on what I make (mild ale through to barley wine).

Now I am thirsty thinking about it, wanna get home from work for a beer.....


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## beeroclock (13/8/08)

T.D. said:


> Hey beeroclock, have you ever been tempted to try a 100% sugar beer??? Could be an interesting experiment. Would only cost around $10 for a 22L batch! :super:



would this work without tins of goo td, i think it would make a nice clear beer, that sure would impres those filter blokes lol
i might even put a schooie of it on the wots in the glas thred


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## Screwtop (13/8/08)

beeroclock said:


> i recon use blokes spend way to much on your beerz, buy kits from bilo work is dun for you then. Suga is cheap to.




Yeah.....Yeah......and suck more wombats :blink:


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## warra48 (13/8/08)

Who is beeroclock???
Is he a regular who has registered another name just to give us all a wind up and a laugh?


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## tazman1967 (13/8/08)

I want beeroclock to post some of his finest recipes....That would be awesome..... :icon_drunk:

Aaahhh the good old days...a tin of Coopers Draught, kilo of white sugar, put in a big bucket, put some cloth over the top to stop the flies falling in...mmmm...yummy

We could all learn a thing or two.....NNNOOOOTT


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## Brewtus (13/8/08)

stowaway said:


> I got into brewing 2/3 months ago. (im going to all grain this weekend)
> My costs so far (roughly. memory is a bit foggy):
> Fridge $100
> Original Tap/regulator Setup: $200
> ...


 You guys need to separate your operating expenditure (opex: Grain, Hops, yeast, gas, wipes etc) from you capital expenditure (Capex: Fermenter, stockpots, nasa burner, plumbing etc). The opex you calculate per brew. The capex you take at 7% to 10% per year, ie the interest you would pay if you stuck it in a bank or what it cost to borrow plus the cost of the kit divided by the no. of brews or years it would last.

in this case about $1300 so $130 for interest plus (say a 10y life at 26 brews/y) = (130+(1300/10))/26 = $10 a brew if you don't buy any more kit and keep it for 10y. Add that to your opex/brew and you have the answer. 

Note that your hydrometers are counted as opex.....LOL and no I am not an accountant, I just suffer them at work.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/8/08)

beeroclock said:


> i recon use blokes spend way to much on your beerz, buy kits from bilo work is dun for you then. Suga is cheap to.


Infidal !You Know you should be using Dexy.    :chug: 
GB


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## Adamt (13/8/08)

Caster suga makes da beer smooth!


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## white.grant (14/8/08)

Hmmm, a chocolate on chocolate stout.


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## bconnery (14/8/08)

stowaway said:


> I got into brewing 2/3 months ago. (im going to all grain this weekend)
> My costs so far (roughly. memory is a bit foggy):
> Fridge $100
> Original Tap/regulator Setup: $200
> ...


Now if you were into say, mountain biking, that's about half a proper bike. (I have a mate at work who has this as his 'other' hobby)
And mud doesn't taste anywhere near as good as beer  
The expense of many other hobbies is a good excuse justification for this one. 

All the points have been covered, buy grain in bulk etc. Looking to save some money in the way you do this hobby isn't a bad thing, but as others have said, it is easy to 
While the main reason I brew isn't to save money the truth is that at the moment it is actually important. I like good beer and I can't really afford to buy as much of the types of beer that I like so making them is great. 
It's just a winner everyway you look. 
You get the enjoyment of creating them, you get the enjoyment of drinking them and you save money as well. 
And before any accountant types say anything no I don't factor my time in the cost, when it comes to brewing, I work for free 

OT: Icing sugar. Hmmmmm. Is it wrong that this idea seems interesting to me? What makes the consistency, does it have additives? A belgian with a portion of icing sugar?


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## schooey (14/8/08)

Brewtus said:


> You guys need to separate your operating expenditure (opex: Grain, Hops, yeast, gas, wipes etc) from you capital expenditure (Capex: Fermenter, stockpots, nasa burner, plumbing etc). The opex you calculate per brew. The capex you take at 7% to 10% per year, ie the interest you would pay if you stuck it in a bank or what it cost to borrow plus the cost of the kit divided by the no. of brews or years it would last.
> 
> in this case about $1300 so $130 for interest plus (say a 10y life at 26 brews/y) = (130+(1300/10))/26 = $10 a brew if you don't buy any more kit and keep it for 10y. Add that to your opex/brew and you have the answer.
> 
> Note that your hydrometers are counted as opex.....LOL and no I am not an accountant, I just suffer them at work.



:huh: 

The 'Engineering, numbers, likes to tinker with shit' side of my brain read that and got interested to work it out...... for about a nanosecond when the 'Enjoys making beer, drinking beer, non-geek' side of the brain overuled and said.... 

"Who cares?"


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## stowaway (14/8/08)

i think (and am hoping) That the first year of brewing will be the most expenisive.. getting all the equiptment together. but the folllowing years should be alot cheaper just paying for ingredients.. 
im sure things break and need to be upgraded and so on.. but the bulk of the equiptment seems pretty solid and will last a long time.

I need to add a Mill in my one off payments too. im buying that on the weekend.

and perhapes i should add on all the unnecessary crap that SWMBO buys with the excuse "You spend all that money on your beer I should be able to get this"
damn her! + She doesnt even drink so i cant return fire.


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## Screwtop (14/8/08)

Brewtus said:


> You guys need to separate your operating expenditure (opex: Grain, Hops, yeast, gas, wipes etc) from you capital expenditure (Capex: Fermenter, stockpots, nasa burner, plumbing etc).
> 
> LOL and no I am not an accountant, I just suffer them at work.




Obviously, you forgot OH expenses :lol: Man cannot brew without electricity and gas etc !!


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## sponge (14/8/08)

beeroclock said:


> td mine is probably less than dollar for a litre, more suga is the key keeps it cheep and keeps them happy, me mates are sponges



Nothing wrong with sponges.... B) 


Sponge


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## Brewtus (14/8/08)

schooey said:


> :huh:
> 
> The 'Engineering, numbers, likes to tinker with shit' side of my brain read that and got interested to work it out...... for about a nanosecond when the 'Enjoys making beer, drinking beer, non-geek' side of the brain overuled and said....
> 
> "Who cares?"


My point was that *$1300* worth of gear is really only *$10/brew*. This helps to annoy/confuse/baffle the other half when they see how much you spend.


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## remi (14/8/08)

having just put a pile of money into my new brewery and much assorted stainless bling- i occasionally feel bad about the expense, but compared to the money i put into my car, it's really not that much. and then i think, some guys pour thousands of dollars into model trains, and at the end of the day, all they can show/ share/ enjoy with their friends/ spouses/ others is...model trains


remi


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## Cocko (15/8/08)

remi said:


> having just put a pile of money into my new brewery and much assorted stainless bling- i occasionally feel bad about the expense, but compared to the money i put into my car, it's really not that much. and then i think, some guys pour thousands of dollars into model trains, and at the end of the day, all they can show/ share/ enjoy with their friends/ spouses/ others is...model trains
> 
> 
> remi




Gold! 

I am yet to drink a model train I enjoyed!!!


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## trevc (15/8/08)

> I am yet to drink a model train I enjoyed!!!



My trains are still at a really high SG. Should I pitch more yeast?


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## Cocko (15/8/08)

trevc said:


> My trains are still at a really high SG. Should I pitch more yeast?



I don't care where you're from.. Thats funny right there!!!
:lol:


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## trevc (15/8/08)

Tried to take a hydrometer reading and now there's caboose wheels stuck in the tap


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## muckey (15/8/08)

Dunno, sounds like the man has been railroaded into brewing.Hey trevc, Sounds like you need a track maintenance crew to clear your tap, I'm sure some of the crew around here would volunteer to help sort the problem if refreshments were available


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