# Malt Shovel About To Hit The Homebrew Market



## PMyers (24/4/03)

I attended a product launch last night at the Malt Shovel brewery - home of the James Squire range we all know and love. This launch was to introduce us to their new product range - Homebrew Concentrates!

These concentrates reflect the same quality ingredients that are used in the production of their commercial beers and, although tastings were fairly limited and a little green (about two weeks old), the potential was there for some fantastic beers. Unfortunately, due to the high quality of the ingredients and the liberal use of specialty malts, especially in their darker beers, the price will be fairly high. We expect these concentrates - that only make 11.5 litres - to hit the shelves at around $18.90 (price is yet to be confirmed). They are due for release around May - June.

The range for these kits include Pale Ale, Two Row Lager, Oatmeal Stout, Summer Wheat, and Roasted Amber.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## Jovial_Monk (24/4/03)

good news

the oatmeal stout kit sounds like an excellent way to get kit brewers to do at least partial mashes





Jovial Monk


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## Doc (24/4/03)

Rob mentioned that they would be bringing out beer kits during the OzRats Piss-up weekend tour of the MS Brewery.
Apparently they have been concocted in NZ by Maltexo, but will be using the James Squire name as they are part of the Lion Nathan group.
Which ones did you try Pete?
The Oatmeal Stout kit stands out for me.

Cheers,
Doc


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

From what I was told, the concentrates are from recipes that were derived from the brewers at malt shovel. You are right in saying that the big name behind this is Lion Nathan, who happen to own Maltexo and several other homebrew related enterprises, and they are indeed based in New Zealand.
I did try the oatmeal stout, but it was after I had been plied with loads of the James Squire Amber, Porter, Pilsner and Wheat (I just can't say no to a free JS), and as such my senses were a little muddled. What I do recall of it was the intense roasty/hoppy aroma, a little dry with nice roasty bitterness and very slight hop notes in the back palate. Unfortunately as I said before, this was quite green and it showed.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

What's the makeup of these kits - extract / extract + specialty / grain, hops / fresh wort?

cheers
reg


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## kook (24/4/03)

11.5 litres? Sounds like its perfect size for brewing in an empty ESB fresh wort container


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

+ are they supplied with yeast? - their own yeast or other?

cheers
reg


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

RegBadgery said:


> What's the makeup of these kits - extract / extract + specialty / grain, hops / fresh wort?



If I recall correctly, these are all grain recipe's brewed and condensed down at their NZ premises.



RegBadgery said:


> + are they supplied with yeast? - their own yeast or other?



They are supplied with their own yeasts, and some (i.e. Summer Wheat) have specially selected yeasts packaged with them. I don't know for sure about the Wheat beer, but I have an incling it will be K-97.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

How far are they condensed Pete? - ie are they more like an ESB fresh wort kit - or like a container of extract?

cheers
reg


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

kook said:


> 11.5 litres? Sounds like its perfect size for brewing in an empty ESB fresh wort container


 Funny you should say that. They are also releasing their own starter kits to go with the concentrates. These fermenters will be of a 12 litre capacity, which gives rise to concern with me when I think of a mere 500mLs of head space. :angry: ) and on of their new single serve steriliser packages.

Not too sure how well these will take off, but only time will tell.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

RegBadgery said:


> How far are they condensed Pete? - ie are they more like an ESB fresh wort kit - or like a container of extract?
> 
> cheers
> reg


 They are 1.7kg extract style containers.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## Jovial_Monk (24/4/03)

11.5L is a piddling amount of beer, double it and you have 23L

you sure they are not meant to be topped up to 23L???

If only 11.5l of beer, forget it!

Luke was telling me of a muntons barley Wine 1.8K kit
you were supposed to top up to 9L

He thought he had FINALLY sold it, but the customer brought it back after he read the thing about the 9L 


Jovial Monk


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

Is this summary correct?

These are 1.7kg extract kits created in New Zealand, shipped to Australia and marketed under the James Squire brand. 

They are not a combination of generic malt extract + hop extract - they start out as a professionally brewed all-grain wort - ( ie malted barley/wheat + hops + specialty grains) - based on a recipe formulated by a professional brewer which is condensed down to syrup.

They're more like the ESB fresh wort kits than the ESB 3kg extract kits. (ie - they originate from an all grain wort which is then condensed to extract - rather than 3kg of extract + bittering extract + finishing hops.)

Supplied with dried yeast selected to be appropriate to the style.

Is the grain Australian, New Zealand, English, German?

cheers
reg


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

Also - are the kits to be marketed through homebrew stores, supermarkets or both?

cheers
reg


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

Jovial_Monk said:


> 11.5L is a piddling amount of beer, double it and you have 23L


 That was probably the biggest point of contention on the night. No one could understand why they would release an 11.5 litre kit in a market dominated by 23 litre equivalents. If anything, I believe I will sell them alongside the Munton's Gold and Premium Gold series, as people will need to double-dump them to get the full 23 litre batch.

As far as the Muntons Barley Wine was concerned, I did that one about 14 months ago, double-dumped to 18 litres, and it has turned out quite well. Not the best BW I have tasted, but nice all the same.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## Doc (24/4/03)

I guess this will prove the power of their marketing machine.
Selling 11.5 litre beer kits and 12 litre fermenters with optional accessories.
I dear say they won't get a lot of sales from existing home brewers at that price, but may attract new home brewers with limited space (ie small apartment dwellers) but have the cash to spend.

Cheers,
Doc


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

RegBadgery said:


> Is this summary correct?
> 
> These are 1.7kg extract kits created in New Zealand, shipped to Australia and marketed under the James Squire brand.
> 
> ...


Everything you stated there is correct. It is also important to note, I believe, that they add some of the hop aromatics to the concentrate to replace what was destroyed during the vacuum condensation stage. I think this is added as a hop oil form, extracted for its aromatics only, but this is only a guestimation.

As far as the grain is concerned, I have no idea. Forgot to ask on the night :unsure: Silly Bugger!



RegBadgery said:


> Also - are the kits to be marketed through homebrew stores, supermarkets or both?



These are to be marketed only through homebrew stores. However, they also discussed another product that will be marketed through both HBS and supermarket .... Tooheys Draught.

Thats right, they are releasing a Tooheys Draught homebrew concentrate. Unfortunately for some, it will be released in QLD first (Strange, since its commercial equivalent is a definite NSW beer icon). They have no plans to release a XXXX concentrate however.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

Doc said:


> I guess this will prove the power of their marketing machine.
> Selling 11.5 litre beer kits and 12 litre fermenters with optional accessories.
> I dear say they won't get a lot of sales from existing home brewers at that price, but may attract new home brewers with limited space (ie small apartment dwellers) but have the cash to spend.


 That was mentioned by their marketing manager, but they were very vocal about producing the product for what they called the 'Hobbyist' and 'Craft' Brewer market. They admitted that with the price tag, and half-sized batch, they would have extreme difficulty convincing the beginner, except in the case you presented in your post.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

That's interesting about the Toohey's concentrate - I wonder what it will taste like. It's probably not fair to compare but I never found that the Coopers ale concentrate tasted like Coopers sparkling ale (at least not with the recommended extract + 1kg sugar - not that they ever claimed that it would taste like their sparkling ale).

cheers
reg


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

RegBadgery said:


> ... not that they ever claimed that it would taste like their sparkling ale.


 Thats the thing though. The can is clearly marked as Tooheys Draught, with a replica of the bottle label. I think if it fails the taste comparison, there are going to be quite a few dissapointed beginners, who use this as their first brew, turned off brewing. I think with all their product research, it will come out tasting pretty damned close.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

As for 11.5 kits - they maybe onto a winner - I started out brewing 20 litre batches and now brew half sized.

cheers
reg


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

RegBadgery said:


> As for 11.5 kits - they maybe onto a winner - I started out brewing 20 litre batches and now brew half sized.


 They may indeed take off. But Edme tried the same thing some years ago, and they failed miserably. I do believe however that the quality of brew these concentrates will produce will be their saving grace. Hopefully, those who want to brew at around 23 litres wont mind paying the price for a double-dump.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## Doc (24/4/03)

Yes Reg, but would you pay $5 more for the kit for 11.5 litres less beer?
They would have to be exceptional kits.

Actually maybe we can get them to send us a few so we can brew them and give a review of them from a home brewer perspective. Do you think you could arrange that Pete?

Cheers,
Doc


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## RegBadgery (24/4/03)

If I tried a kit and thought it worth the price, I'd pay it. It's a very subjective sort of thing and ties in with all the various reasons why people brew and why they brew the way they do using the sort of ingredients they choose.

cheers
reg


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## Jovial_Monk (24/4/03)

Hehe

brewing a barley wine tomorrow, the Thos Hardy clone from "Brew your own British Ales" bumped up to an all grain 23l batch.

14K of grain, 4 hour boil, 140g bittering hops (whole goldings and plug Fuggles)\

Can't wait


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## PostModern (24/4/03)

At first I thought the price/volume ratio was totally wrong, however, for $37.80 you make 23L, which does place it in the same range as the ESB fresh wort kits... not really too bad at all. However just having bought a lot of LME and invested in a bit of grain, I think I'll be happy enough to stick to extract and specialty grains brewing for a while 

I can think of a few friends who would give this a go, tho.


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## Jovial_Monk (24/4/03)

Well, I doubt it will take off.

$18+ for what is basically extract, no way. Not comparable to the ESB fresh wort kits, hardly at all condensed.

I have plenty of unit-dwelling customers, doubt a pidlly sized fermenter would suit them.

Only one way I could see it working--sell a 11L pressurized keg thingie that they can put in the fridge, a CO2 cartridge to push the beer out.

They start doing that, soon they will want to brew two kegs worth.

I certainly do NOT intend to stock them



Jovial Monk


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## kook (24/4/03)

Muntons Premium Gold kits seem to sell OK over here (~42$ for 22.5 litres of brew). The MSB brews would work out cheaper than the MPG. ESB Fresh Wort is $39 over here too (and only one shop stocks ESB gear afaik).

Over here, the kit market has a huge stronghold on the HB industry. Almost all the stores buy their stuff from West Brew Distributors (Brewcraft) and resell it. People either buy a kit and a bag of brew booster of some form, or they buy a complete kit like the muntons premium / premium gold or the woodfordes brews.


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## PMyers (24/4/03)

kook said:


> Muntons Premium Gold kits seem to sell OK over here (~42$ for 22.5 litres of brew). The MSB brews would work out cheaper than the MPG. ESB Fresh Wort is $39 over here too (and only one shop stocks ESB gear afaik).


 Some of the people at the launch did suggest repackaging it into a Premium Gold type look, with two tins in a nice cardboard outer, but the Lion Nathan guys didn't seem too interested in that. I think they might be trying to stake out a sort of niche-within-a-niche market ploy with the 12 litre fermenters, and if they can do it, more power too them. I just don't think the demand will be there for their kits unless they change their concept. Which is a shame really, because as I have stated before, there is great potential in the quality of the product. I know I will definately be trying their Summer Wheat and the Roasted Amber when they arrive in-store.

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## kook (24/4/03)

They might be preparing to enter the japanese market against coopers. I dont know if you heard but coopers are selling small homebrew kits and ingredient kits over there. Theyre half size too. Its supposed to be more suited to the japanese apartment lifestyle.


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## PostModern (24/4/03)

What I find odd about the mini-fermenter deal is the brew warming mat. Most people I know in Australia have troubles keeping their kits COOL enough, not WARM enough. Right now, in a cold snap, I have to keep my WLP001 based brews wrapped in a wet towel in the kitchen on the floor in a shady part of the house to keep it at 21C. Who has a house where room temp is < 21C? What kind of yeast are they packaging that needs you to keep the wort _warmer_ than that?


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## RegBadgery (25/4/03)

Maybe it's the traditional sort of yeast that's recommended to be brewed at at least 25 - 30 degrees . Did anyone at the launch see the brewing instructions?

Anyway I emailed MSB for more information and received a reply of sorts from lion nathan (see following).

When I first saw this thread I thought that maybe the kits were like the grumpy model - ie including specialty grain and hops - that would really be something and would expand the brewing experience of brewers beyond the range of discussion lists like this one.

Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:56:32 +1000
From: "ROBERT MILEO - LNA" 
To: [email protected]

Hi Reg,

No such products on the market at this stage.

Suggest you keep in touch with you local brew store for all information
in the coming months.

Cheers
Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Reg Badgery [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thu, 24 April 2003 12:55 PM
To: GOODBREWS
Subject: maltshovel homebrew concentrates

Hello- interested in information about your homebrew
kits - are they fresh wort, extract, grain, partial
mash - your own yeast or other? etc.

cheers
reg

____________


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## Armstrong (25/4/03)

Allow me to clarify a few things.

The Malt Shovel Kits are as follows:-

- 1.7kg Can of condensed extract (no other adjuncts required to make 11.5Ltrs
- They are produced using specialty grains & hops in a full mash then evaporated down after which addition hop oils (not iso-hop) are added for aromatics
- They suppy specialty yeast which differ from can to can and contains at this stage in excess of 10gms ... do not expect a generic 514 ale yeast ... brewing at 25 - 30 degrees is way above the recommended.
- The flavors produced are quite unique to the home brew concentrate market and I quote ... "had to be of a quality that we were happy to put our name on" - Mr Chuck Hahn

The product launch the other night was for the retail Home brew trade and much feedback was put forward regarding these kits. (maybe that's why you didn't get any info off Lion Nathan at this stage)
There were a few issues of concern amongst some, but it was plain to see that allot of effort had been put in to produce a concentrate aimed at the beer lover ... not the penny pincher.

Nothing will be available to us until mid May so we'll just have to give them a run then and make our own opinions.

I may seem it be sitting on the fence here ... and to truthful, that is exactly what I'm doing! I want to reserve my judgement until I've had a chance to knock up a couple of brews myself.

Hope this clears up a few things
:chug:


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## Indy (25/4/03)

PMyers said:


> They admitted that with the price tag, and half-sized batch, they would have extreme difficulty convincing the beginner, except in the case you presented in your post.


well, that depends upon the brew shop operators co-operation  
ie: if you had know idea about home-brew, and were basically guaranteed of a very nice beer first go... 
very tempting...

of course when you first start out you think it will be really easy :lol: 
not that it isn't, but there's so many combos :blink: if most of the variables/variations are taken away it's a pretty simple process...

pity they will not be making a 22Ltr can too, i guess slightly cheaper than 2 x 11Ltr...

all the same, i recon i'd probly try a half batch first anyway, uses up less bottles 
(i don't have that many  ) 
and i can just sample before deciding if i like it, or decide to make a different type... 
it also gives me the perfect excuse to buy one (or two, 'cause you need a secondary) of those ESB fresh wort thingos  
btw are they 15ltr containers?

not too bad a deal tho, 14 long-necks for $20 (?) 
thats still only about $1.40 a long-neck...


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## bradmcm (26/4/03)

When I was in the US about 5 or 6 years back - the local HBS
sold Coopers tins and it was suggested to make them up
to 3.5 US Gallons (13 1/4 litres).
Their catalog(ue) stated you COULD add 2lbs of sugar and make
them up to 5 Gallons but they did not recommend it.
I wish more HBSs would give this advice.

Personally I think it's fine to make a 1.7kg can into 11 or so litres.
It may suit some brewers who are not into mass consumption or
are space limited.

I'm sure these kits are not going into the local supermarket
but into the local HBS. There should be at least some advice
there for the brewer.


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## bradmcm (26/4/03)

PostModern said:


> Most people I know in Australia have troubles keeping their kits COOL enough, not WARM enough. Right now, in a cold snap, I have to keep my WLP001 based brews wrapped in a wet towel in the kitchen on the floor in a shady part of the house to keep it at 21C. Who has a house where room temp is < 21C?


People that don't live at sea level in warm climes.

Right now my living room is at 16C at 2:20PM.

The temperature in my house won't really get above
this until October now.

Ale brewing is just finishing up for the next 6 months...
time to get those lagers up and running in the spare room!


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## RegBadgery (26/4/03)

I think that bradmcm raises an interesting point of divergence between the US and Australian homebrewing markets.

In Australia there's considerable emphasis on marketing homebrew as a lower cost alternative to highly taxed commercial beer. In the US, mass market mainstream beer is relatively inexpensive and from what I've read - homebrew can't compete on a price basis - so there's a greater emphasis on the benefit of quality ingredients in homebrew.

cheers
reg


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## PostModern (26/4/03)

Me, I'm in it for the craft. Apart from making > premium nice beer for


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## PostModern (26/4/03)

bradmcm said:


> Right now my living room is at 16C at 2:20PM.
> 
> The temperature in my house won't really get above
> this until October now.




I take it you own a lot of really thick clothing 
No offence meant to mountain dwellers, it's just that 95% of us live on the coast.


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## bradmcm (28/4/03)

To be a complete bastard - what about those that live on the coast in Hobart?? None too warm there  
No, I'm not there... I'm not that crazy!
:lol:


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## JWB (29/4/03)

B) I live on the North West Coast of Tassie. 
The temp here very rarely gets above 30 deg C.
The temp in my Brewrey (also know as her laundry) under the house even on hot days..25C> stays at 20C.
I use heat belts during the winter...but make great larger all year round...  
:chug:


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## PMyers (29/4/03)

JWB said:


> I use heat belts during the winter...but make great larger all year round...


 Personally, I wouldn't bother with the heater belt at all, make my ales in summer at 18-20C (I think 18C is the perfect temp for ales) and my lagers in winter. Saflager will brew down to around 8C, and some of the fresh yeasts will go even lower.

Damn! I wish I lived there now :lol: 

Cheers,
Pete

:chug:


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## Armstrong (10/5/03)

The Country Brewer are now taking pre-orders on the Malt Shovel stuff.

There are pictures and descriptions of each can at following link - 

http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/category94_1.htm


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## Doc (10/5/03)

The Masters of marketing have done it again.
Nice simple design yet very attractive.
mmm, the Deep Roast Ale and Oatmeal Stout look inviting.

Doc


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## Linz (10/5/03)

those guys at the CB and Malt shovel are great!!

to release an ale to take on the cock ale that was posted here

Malt Shovel 1.7 kg Deer Roast Ale



B)  :chug:


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## Armstrong (10/5/03)

Too many late nights!!! :blink: lol


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## kook (11/5/03)

Country brewer are brewcraft affilliated aren't they?

Any idea if West Brew are planning to bring these kits over to WA??

I'd like to give one a go if they do  See how it compares to a muntons premium gold..


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## Armstrong (11/5/03)

We aren't really affilliated with anyone ... we did take over a Brewcraft store so our site is featured on Brewnet because of that.

I'm pretty sure that there was a product launch in WA as well ... you should have these available pretty soon!


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## Jazman (11/5/03)

They seem a bit expensive at $18.50 when u have to add grain hops ecr. well we havent heard about them in adelaide


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## slim (12/5/03)

Hi Everyone

This is my first post 

Im the Admin for the Country Brewer website and its new forum.

We now have on the The Country Brewer website we have just added a new category for this new product range.

The kits are not due for a few weeks but going on enquiries so far, demand will be high.. So get in early and pre order now.

You can get directly to the new page by clicking -> here

If you want to make a full fermenter full of beer you will need TWO of these kits! :chug: 

Thanks

Slim


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## Jazman (13/5/03)

I dont think i will be getting them to expensive rather get an esb 3 kg can or fresh wort than that


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## kook (13/5/03)

Jazman said:


> I dont think i will be getting them to expensive rather get an esb 3 kg can or fresh wort than that


 Cheaper than a Muntons Premium Gold or Woodfordes pack (theyre $40-45). ESB Fresh wort is the same price over here ($39).

Its around the same price as a lot of Grumpys "superbrews".

Time will only tell of the quality of them. You have to remember, for them to wear the MSB name they're going to have to be of decent quality. Saying that you'd rather get an ESB 3kg can over them without ever tasting them is a bit harsh


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## RegBadgery (14/5/03)

Slim - I'm glad you updated the countrybrewer website and I hope that you're able to maintain currency. Websites that don't update drive me around the bend - right about the bend - to the very end of the bend - even beyond the bend.

I hope that the MSB kits are fine quality and that any marketing attracts more people to brewing. Whether people enjoy kits/extract/grain etc - the more the better and the more information concerning options and technique the better.

cheers
reg


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## Doc (14/5/03)

These kits are also going to be marketed in NZ but under the Mac's brewery name.
However the strange thing is that the description of the kits is quite a bit different. See here.

*Note:* This URL is the the front page where the kits are currently listed as of 14 May 2003

I have it on good authority from Luke Nicholas that these are the same kits.

Cheers,
Doc


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## Indy (14/5/03)

hmmm,i wonder how they would go down over there, i hear that some homebrewers in NZ have strange tastes :wacko: 

but i guess that there must be some with good taste too...


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## Jovial_Monk (14/5/03)

Still can't see these kits doing well

One of my series 2 improver packs (extract, grain, hops) + Coopers Lager kit
about $30 max and it makes 23L

buy kit at supermarket, add CSR brewing sugar, 23L for $12 :huh: 

Jovial Monk


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## Jazman (29/7/03)

any one made the two row lager im thinking of making it with the wyeast bav lager 2206 does it need dry hoping i have saaz plugs


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## crackers (1/8/03)

I've got a 10L bucket at home, might punch a tap & airlock in it, fill it up to 9.5L with the 2 row Lager and leave it in the corner for a couple of weeks to try it.


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## nicko (1/8/03)

sounds like a good option crackers.


my pale ale was pretty ordinary, much rather do a normal can brew.


my mate did a nut brown, it tasted dirty, pretty sure it was infected, but ended up pouring the keg out, still go a few bottles, maybe it will improve...


hopefully the lager is ok, all the best


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