# Big W - The Corrupter Of Home Brew



## Lobsta (20/2/08)

**CAUTION, RANT FOLLOWS**

i was just walking around in my local Big W (Carindale) and i decided to have a look in the Home Brew section, and i had a look at theur kits that they had for sale. The newest one was about 3 months off expiring (a can of malt shovel something or other), the majority were about a month out of date (pretty much all of their Cooper's range), and a large percent of them were out of date by 4-5 months (the whole Tooheys range and the whole of some other range that i can't remember, starts with "b"). 

Here's my beef: when a store sells stuff of this low quality (im talking about the dates, not the brands) as its home brew section, it is no wonder that the majority of the public thinks that home brews always taste like cr*p and don't get involved in it. Even if a brewer manages to find out that the cans shouldn't be fermented at 24 degrees, there is very little chance that a can that expires in 3 months will yield decent tasting beer, let alone one that has been expired for 5 months. And while people _can_ go to a HBS and get some decent advice and products, the majority of people do just try a kit from Big W, and get turned off this great hobby. 

just a general rant that i felt like getting out. if anybody wants to go after the head of the Woolworths corporation, maybe we can form a lynch mob or something and take to the streets with our mash paddles and burners...

Lobby.


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## Muggus (20/2/08)

Lobsta said:


> just a general rant that i felt like getting out. if anybody wants to go after the head of the Woolworths corporation, maybe we can form a lynch mob or something and take to the streets with our mash paddles and burners...


I like the sound of that.  

I gave up buying anything of the brewing sort in supermarkets and large chain stores a while back. 
I recall the homebrew section in my local K Mart looking as if it had not looked upon for a few months last time I went shopping there.
I'd rather spend my little bit extra on at my local homebrew shop. At least they look after their stock and I know that the money isn't going to some giant blood thirsty company.


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## browndog (20/2/08)

Did you happen to let them know they were trying to sell out of date stock? :blink: 

cheers

Browndog


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## Duff (20/2/08)

You could of got it for free :lol:


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## b_thomas (20/2/08)

I tend to walk past the brewing section at supermarkets with a mixed look of disdain and disappointment. Disdain in the poor quality and display and Disappointment that so many people out there are potentially missing out on such a great hobby solely because of the whim of a supermarket. Mind you anyone seriously thinking about getting into a hobby would be doing some research (as I did) and finding their way to a LHBS or a great forum like this.

I'm actually going to check out my local Big W to see if the issue is company wide or just a store stock rotation issue.


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## hotboost (20/2/08)

The only thing worth buying from big w is the Pet bottles . theyre about $4.00 cheaper than local hbs. doesnt seem alot but 2 carton theres $8.00 
and buy beer from the local hbs. everyone wins then.


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## pokolbinguy (20/2/08)

Well I only buy stuff at Big W etc when they are on special to make a "bulk pleaser" beer... for parties etc.

However I have made some nice beers from the coopers / cascade ranges with a bit of added extras. 

If only the product was always fresh.

Pok


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## goatherder (20/2/08)

The yeast will be in pretty poor shape after that long on the shelves. No wonder homebrew has a bad name.


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## paul (20/2/08)

At my local Coles they cant keep the shelves stocked. They have one bay allocated to homebrew. Most of the time half of the shelves are empty as its a quick seller


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## Batz (20/2/08)

Lobsta said:


> **CAUTION, RANT FOLLOWS**
> 
> i was just walking around in my local Big W (Carindale) and i decided to have a look in the Home Brew section, and i had a look at theur kits that they had for sale. The newest one was about 3 months off expiring (a can of malt shovel something or other), the majority were about a month out of date (pretty much all of their Cooper's range), and a large percent of them were out of date by 4-5 months (the whole Tooheys range and the whole of some other range that i can't remember, starts with "b").
> 
> ...



That's disgusting !!
The manager of that store should be dragged outside and be given a good thrashing with a wet hop flower !

Batz


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## staggalee (20/2/08)

Batz said:


> That's disgusting !!
> The manager of that store should be dragged outside and be given a good thrashing with a wet hop flower !
> 
> Batz



By a moderator of AHB forum'
Shit sorry.... forgot.
You are one :lol: 

Sorry  

stagga.


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## EK (20/2/08)

I was at a HBS last year looking at a couple of kits, when I noticed that there was a lot of dust on all of the stock. After checking the dates on the cans I found that almost all of what I was interested in was out of date by at least a month. Which surprised me as there is usually a pretty good time frame, according tot he use by dates at least, before they expire.

No wonder home brew gets a bad name...when HBS's have out of date stock!

EK


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## staggalee (20/2/08)

What did the hb shop owner say when you brought this to his notice?

stagga.


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## browndog (20/2/08)

Retailers trying to sell out of date stock undisclosed at full price is disgusting. The only thing worse is selling a newbie brewer out of date liquid yeast at full price and after the newbie pointing out the expired date, the retailer telling him it's still good for months after that date, never been back to that store near Indropilly since.

cheers

Browndog


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## Ross (20/2/08)

I've watched a local HBS rubbing off the expiry dates of their tins that were near/past there best by date, with the comment "what they don't know won't hurt them"....Why they couldn't just discount & be honest is beyond me...

Cheers ross


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## peas_and_corn (20/2/08)

Duff said:


> You could of got it for free :lol:



Well, that wouldn't happen. I can't recall what the case with cans its, but from what I gather stuff with a 'due date' cannot be sold at all after the date (this is especially the case with dairy), and 'best before' is heavily discounted.



browndog said:


> Retailers trying to sell out of date stock undisclosed at full price is disgusting. The only thing worse is selling a newbie brewer out of date liquid yeast at full price and after the newbie pointing out the expired date, the retailer telling him it's still good for months after that date, never been back to that store near Indropilly since.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



The odds are that the people at the store are unaware. Fillers ignore rotation rules because they are forced to fill as fast as possible. There is generally only one person who acts as a 'code checker', normally part time- the HB section normally gets neglected for other sections (such as the aforementioned dairy section and other section that has short codes) as a result.


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## browndog (20/2/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> Well, that wouldn't happen. I can't recall what the case with cans its, but from what I gather stuff with a 'due date' cannot be sold at all after the date (this is especially the case with dairy), and 'best before' is heavily discounted.
> 
> 
> 
> The odds are that the people at the store are unaware. Fillers ignore rotation rules because they are forced to fill as fast as possible. There is generally only one person who acts as a 'code checker', normally part time- the HB section normally gets neglected for other sections (such as the aforementioned dairy section and other section that has short codes) as a result.



LHB stores with one or two guys working in them have no excuse there what so ever for having out of date stock on the shelves mate, they are not run off their feet like the kids behind the macdonalds counter.


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## pokolbinguy (20/2/08)

browndog said:


> they are not run off their feet like the kids behind the macdonalds counter.



Thus must be why the burgers sit there for what seems hours before you get it served it to you and they taste like crap.

Pok


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## peas_and_corn (20/2/08)

browndog said:


> LHB stores with one or two guys working in them have no excuse there what so ever for having out of date stock on the shelves mate, they are not run off their feet like the kids behind the macdonalds counter.



I was referring to supermarkets- the subject of the thread.


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## Murcluf (20/2/08)

Ross said:


> I've watched a local HBS rubbing off the expiry dates of their tins that were near/past there best by date, with the comment "what they don't know won't hurt them"....Why they couldn't just discount & be honest is beyond me...
> 
> Cheers ross



It doesn't just happen with tinned stuff, I once worked for a (fresh?) food wholesaler who had the habit of removing the out of date used by sticker and put another one on with an extra 6 to 12 months on it. When I questioned the practice was also told the same"what they don't know won't hurt them".... Strangely enough after refusing to follow their code of practice, they nolonger required my services.


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## browndog (20/2/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> I was referring to supermarkets- the subject of the thread.



When you quoted me, I was refering to LHBS. No probs Bloke


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## EK (20/2/08)

staggalee said:


> What did the hb shop owner say when you brought this to his notice?
> 
> stagga.


To avoid relating a long and boring story: I didn't mention it. I figured that he was well aware being that the newer ones were at the back. Plus, I was in a hurry.

EK


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## matti (21/2/08)

Boil the crapp out of 'em.
The goo that is ^_^


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## tcraig20 (21/2/08)

EK said:


> I was at a HBS last year looking at a couple of kits, when I noticed that there was a lot of dust on all of the stock. After checking the dates on the cans I found that almost all of what I was interested in was out of date by at least a month. Which surprised me as there is usually a pretty good time frame, according tot he use by dates at least, before they expire.
> 
> No wonder home brew gets a bad name...when HBS's have out of date stock!
> 
> EK



When I was on holidays over christmas I ducked into one of the little brewcraft shops out of boredom. Ended up buying a tin of black rock pils. After walking out, I noticed the expiry date was 2005. Took the tin back and they were shocked: the stock apparently arrived last week. 

Talking to my dad later on (he lives there), it sounds believable, they only started selling homebrew stuff 6 months before. So maybe the reatilers arent entirely to blame.


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## turto77 (21/2/08)

Duff said:


> You could of got it for free :lol:



What is the legal standpoint on this? If it out of date can they sell it. I presume we are well within our right to ask for a discount but is asking for a freebie out of the question?


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## Ross (21/2/08)

I believe it's dependant on whether it's a "best before" date or "use by" date.
Our local supermarket has a very high % of its products past their "best before" date.
I'm sure someone with enlighten shortly...

Cheers Ross


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## SpillsMostOfIt (21/2/08)

So, where do I stand if I buy a bottle of Coopers Sparkling that is before its 'Best After' date? :blink:


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## EK (21/2/08)

JamesCraig said:


> When I was on holidays over christmas I ducked into one of the little brewcraft shops out of boredom. Ended up buying a tin of black rock pils. After walking out, I noticed the expiry date was 2005. Took the tin back and they were shocked: the stock apparently arrived last week.
> 
> Talking to my dad later on (he lives there), it sounds believable, they only started selling homebrew stuff 6 months before. So maybe the reatilers arent entirely to blame.



This particular store has been in operation for some time, though it did change hands a couple of years ago. When I was looking for what I was going to buy, there were some items of the same product that were in date (at the rear of the shelf) and some that were out of date (at the front) and some that were out of date regardless of their placement on the shelf. Though these could have been an old batch from the manufacturer/distributor, I think it is unlikely given the amount of dust that was on the tins and the rings on the shelf when you picked up a tin.

Also, like most HBS's there was not a great deal of stock on the shelves so the stock should be moving fast enough not to gather that much dust.

I must stress though, that this was only the case with the Morgan's kits I was looking at, I don't know about any of the other brands, but there was a lot of dust on them also.

I know of a few people who have gone to this particular store and vowed never to go back, mainly because of the guy on the other side of the counter.

EK


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## Lobsta (21/2/08)

umm, a little off topic here, but did anybody else see that PistolPatch had a comment in this thread, that first changed positions from page 1 to page 2, and now has mysteriously disappeared? i'm pretty sure im not going crazy...

Lobby


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## EK (21/2/08)

Lobsta said:


> umm, a little off topic here, but did anybody else see that PistolPatch had a comment in this thread, that first changed positions from page 1 to page 2, and now has mysteriously disappeared? i'm pretty sure im not going crazy...
> 
> Lobby



I think I saw a post in this thread by PistolPatch...and now that I check, I can't find it.


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## Paul H (21/2/08)

Generally I am no conspiracy theorist however, if you bear with me.
If I had a big business that had of its major lines one that sold full priced alcohol(BWS etc) & one that sold cheap alcohol (homebrew) kits I wouldn't even stock the cheap alcohol kits let alone offer any level of service . I probably wouldn't worry too much about my mnajor competitor either who happens to be in the same position.


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## ibast (21/2/08)

Bloke at work was complaining about his Cascade Pale Ale kit that didn't start well and then tasted terrible at the end.

so I'm betting he got an old kit, where the yeast was cactus. You'd think the brewers rep would be checking and getting up store managers.


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## chovain (21/2/08)

Ross, I'm interested to know: do you lose much stock to passing use-by/best-before dates? Have you had problems with distributors giving you bad stock? My LHBS has thrown a couple of near out-of-date WLP vials my way that had only arrived that week.



Lobsta said:


> [...] did anybody else see that PistolPatch had a comment in this thread, that [...] now has mysteriously disappeared? [...]


It was posted after 1am, and the new rules will stop him from editing it when the hang-over wears off. The basic gist of it was that it would be a good idea to have a thread where people doing kits post the best before date on the can, and let everyone know how the beer turned out. He proposed that such a thread may help to get a better idea of the relationship between the age of the kit, and the quality of the results. The post was, however, a bit longer than this paragraph .


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## EK (21/2/08)

ibast said:


> You'd think the brewers rep would be checking and getting up store managers.


This is why I find it surprising that there are kits on the shelves that are out of date. Then again, the reps may not be checking the shelves, but just ensuring that the stock gets to the stores. I know from working at a supermarket that some reps (usually of the larger corporations) go into the stores and audit and restack the shelves sometimes, but not of the smaller ones.

EK


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## PistolPatch (21/2/08)

Yep sorry guys, I pulled that post. Had trouble editing it and then it kept getting longer and longer with each sip of beer  

Mark's summary above is much better!

Be nice to see a Kit Register started though as I think it will answer a lot of questions on the date issue plus help the newer brewers/members get comfortable on the forum. The relevant bit of my deleted post is as follows...

Maybe start a thread and in the first post provide a template that others can copy and paste in their post. Template should maybe include the following...

1. Name of Kit
2. Expiry Date on Can.
3. Date of First Taste.
3. How Did You Rate this Kit (Out of Five Stars)
4. Where Did You Purchase It?
5. Subsequent Tasting Notes.

If an experienced kit brewer started the thread then maybe they could update their first post occasionally to reveal any trends that showed up in the register.

Spot ya,
Pat


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## kook (21/2/08)

PistolPatch said:


> Yep sorry guys, I pulled that post. Had trouble editing it and then it kept getting longer and longer with each sip of beer
> 
> Mark's summary above is much better!
> 
> ...



Good idea Pat. Maybe those fields could be added to the recipe db for kits?

Alternatively, hbkitreviews.com might be able to add the date/expiry information to their site?


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## hotboost (21/2/08)

Well went to Big w tonite to buy 2 more cases of pet bottles. They have a store special on kits , so i thought I'll check the dates lifted over I'd say atleast 20 cans of different varieties and they do have a good variety all the coopers stuff + others. NOT ONE OUT OF DATE , not even close . The closest thing one of out of date was jun 2009.
Mind you its a reasonably newish shopping centre but tp have instore specials of their stock ... I d say we have a manger that brews...


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## Ross (21/2/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> Ross, I'm interested to know: do you lose much stock to passing use-by/best-before dates? Have you had problems with distributors giving you bad stock?



Hi Mark,

Not lost any stock yet - our turn over is pretty fast. I had 20kg of yeast sent to me that was a few months off its best by date. When i complained it was offered to me very cheap, was tempting, but i returned for fresh stock - Quality is paramount.

cheers Ross


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## OzBeer_MD (22/2/08)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> So, where do I stand if I buy a bottle of Coopers Sparkling that is before its 'Best After' date? :blink:



You stand in the corner, waiting  

MD


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## drag (22/2/08)

I find that the kit cans turnover is higher in the lower type of suburbs than the well to do type supermarkets.
Is the supermarket in a rich type area?


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## Lobsta (22/2/08)

drag said:


> I find that the kit cans turnover is higher in the lower type of suburbs than the well to do type supermarkets.
> Is the supermarket in a rich type area?


carindale is sorta both, there is a mix of yuppies and more well to do people and also some lower socio-economic areas. i dont really see how that would make much of a difference though...


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## peas_and_corn (22/2/08)

Ross said:


> I believe it's dependant on whether it's a "best before" date or "use by" date.
> Our local supermarket has a very high % of its products past their "best before" date.
> I'm sure someone with enlighten shortly...
> 
> Cheers Ross





peas_and_corn said:


> ...I can't recall what the case [whether it's 'best before' or 'due date'] with cans its, but from what I gather stuff with a 'due date' cannot be sold at all after the date (this is especially the case with dairy), and 'best before' is heavily discounted.







EK said:


> This is why I find it surprising that there are kits on the shelves that are out of date. Then again, the reps may not be checking the shelves, but just ensuring that the stock gets to the stores. I know from working at a supermarket that some reps (usually of the larger corporations) go into the stores and audit and restack the shelves sometimes, but not of the smaller ones.
> 
> EK



to get a rep into supermarkets costs the companies a lot of money. HB cans don't have reps coming in at all- they are taken care of by the dry goods manager, like just about everything else (even the stuff that the rep is supposed to do, because they are generally lazy, and don't do the orders).


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## BOG (22/2/08)

My local Coles (Dee Why) has a great stock and puts cans on a specials shelf when they get close to reaching use by dates.

I picked up some Coopers Ginger Beer cans for $2 each. Ginger dosn't really go off I thought. A nice drop for my Mum.

I did a quad strength (4 cans) brew with it.

It turned out ok but blew fire out my nose and burnt your arse when you farted!





BOG


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## staggalee (22/2/08)

Poor old Mum  

stagga.


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## imellor (22/2/08)

Coles near me seem to be great at keeping track of stock. My last Coopers can purchased had an expire date of 2009. I have also seen cans marked down that had not reached their expiry date with still a month to go. 

Question. If your supermarket sells out of date brew gear, do you still buy your groceries from them?
How much other stuff is out of date? :blink: 

Cheers
Ian


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## EK (23/2/08)

PistolPatch said:


> Be nice to see a Kit Register started though as I think it will answer a lot of questions on the date issue plus help the newer brewers/members get comfortable on the forum. The relevant bit of my deleted post is as follows...
> 
> ...<snip>...
> 
> 3. How Did You Rate this Kit (Out of Five Stars)


Good idea Pat, this could help us K&Kers quite a bit I think. Also Homebrew Kit Reviews is not a bad link for kit ratings.

EK


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## goomboogo (23/2/08)

Last week in Coles, I noticed brewing yeast on the sale shelf. 40 cents for Brigalow yeast that had a best before date of late 2007. I can only guess how long ago this yeast was produced and the life it has had since. This is a great shame as many people in the general public develop their notions of homebrew based on beer made with poor product. Crap product making crap beer. Not that I think this particular out of date yeast would be capable of making any sort of beer as it likely to be cactus.


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## boingk (24/2/08)

My local Big Dub seems to have the right idea - a bay devoted to homebrew with kits, bottles, all the bits to go in between, and a decent range of Coopers, Brigalow and Tooheys kits - pretty much all of which have use by dates of 2009 sometime. I can't seem to fault them - a plus for me I guess when getting some kits for the quick knock-up or more bottles. For everything else its the HB store


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## Murcluf (24/2/08)

I'm starting to see a common theme here I went to Dan Murphy's today and got an Octoberfest when I got home I noticed the used by date was only a 5 days away. When in BigW in the past I have seen a few very short dated or out of date cans of HB. When I worked the food industry I would often find out of date stock on Woolies shelves. Perhaps their slogan should should be change to the "Far from Fresh Food people" Don't get me started on the Fresh "from the freezer" Bakery items or the thrawed for you inconvenience seafoods.

Vote with your feet and support quaility LHBS might cost a little more sometimes, but see it as an investment in your health.


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## EK (24/2/08)

Murcluf said:


> I'm starting to see a common theme here I went to Dan Murphy's today and got an Octoberfest when I got home I noticed the used by date was only a 5 days away. When in BigW in the past I have seen a few very short dated or out of date cans of HB. When I worked the food industry I would often find out of date stock on Woolies shelves. Perhaps their slogan should should be change to the "Far from Fresh Food people" Don't get me started on the Fresh "from the freezer" Bakery items or the thrawed for you inconvenience seafoods.
> 
> Vote with your feet and support quaility LHBS might cost a little more sometimes, but see it as an investment in your health.



I used to work for Coles and I can tell you it isn't much different. I belive that I once found a Mars bar that was 3 Years out of date.

EK


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## Rabbitz (25/2/08)

I guess I am still a newbie, and still have a lot to learn so I can't bring myself to buy HB consumables from a supermarket.

I prefer to pay a small premium to the HBS shop, but then I feel that I can drop in and ask my (no doubt) dumb questions. 

Rabz


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## EK (25/2/08)

Rabbitz said:


> I guess I am still a newbie, and still have a lot to learn so I can't bring myself to buy HB consumables from a supermarket.
> 
> I prefer to pay a small premium to the HBS shop, but then I feel that I can drop in and ask my (no doubt) dumb questions.
> 
> Rabz


Those questions can always be asked here Rabbitz...also you don't have to worry about opening hours!

EK


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