# What Imparts A Raisin Flavour?



## chappo1970 (13/3/09)

I am trying to nut out a recipe for a clone and I need a hint of raisins? It's basically a brown ale with an amber tinge. Any ideas?


----------



## roger mellie (13/3/09)

Chappo said:


> I am trying to nut out a recipe for a clone and I need a hint of raisins? It's basically a brown ale with an amber tinge. Any ideas?



Try using Windsor Yeast - every time I use it it throws raisins in spades.

So I dont use it anymore

RM


----------



## mika (13/3/09)

Combination of crystals will get you there, or so I've heard. Maybe mix up some Dark crystal with some medium.


----------



## bconnery (13/3/09)

Some cara-aroma in there will definitely help with that...


----------



## scott_penno (13/3/09)

There's something called Special B which is used for raisin flavors in Belgian ales. There's something else readily available locally but I can't remember what it's called...

sap.

PS. Looks like Special B is roughly equivalent to Caraaroma - link


----------



## Bribie G (13/3/09)

Some dark moist brown sugar, maybe 200g in the brew. Another grocery item that screams raisin is fake maple syrup but you would be a brave man........ ^_^


----------



## schooey (13/3/09)

Raisins?..... 

Hey someone had to say it...

I've found Muscavado sugar and cara malts like CaraAmber, CaraRed etc give a really nice background flavour of dried fruits and raisins


----------



## pdilley (13/3/09)

BribieG said:


> Some dark moist brown sugar, maybe 200g in the brew. Another grocery item that screams raisin is fake maple syrup but you would be a brave man........ ^_^



Go for the maple flavouring for the side benefit of pancakes. I ordered internationally through amazon.com in the states a box of the stuff for pancake purposes alone. Aussie costs on syrup is extortionist to the extreme. To make paxake syrup used 1/2 tsp of extract or so. You are talking 7 cents or less to make syrup costing upwards of $10 in the shops here localy. I even make my own self raising flour mix and pancake mix as that costs cents compared to the one use mixers in the supermarkets here. Buttermilk will react and make extra fluffy pancakes  -- 7c + 12c of generic std sugar In a ratio comparisson means you save in the thousands of dollars which justifies ordering it with intl shipping. And of course spend your savings on more brew equipment and supplies + can try your raisin flavour. Win win


----------



## chappo1970 (13/3/09)

Hmmmm... lots to consider

Thanks Gentlemen for your kind responses. Very appreciated.

I guess I should have said it's there in the background and it's definitely raisin/dried fruit. To me my gut says it's in the malts and not the yeast simply because the flavour is in the background subtle if you get my drift.

Rodger the Windsor when you say "in spades" does that imply a dominating effect? I'm very keen to try a yeast outside of my little comfort zone but I don't need it to dominate in this one. 

Schooey, bconnery (007) you might be closer there I already have carared in the recipe but maybe a peppering of cararoma as well.

I might steep say 50gr of each in the plunger and see if that unlocks ant hints?

The recipe so far looks like this:

4.50 kg Maris Otter
0.80 kg Carared
0.20 kg Biscuit Malt
0.10 kg Caraaroma
0.10 kg Roasted Barley

Any further inputs are appreciated.


----------



## barfridge (13/3/09)

Carafa special III


----------



## KoNG (13/3/09)

Definately an english dark crystal. Bairds being my fav.
For me i don't think windsor gives it by itself, it's definately low attenuating and fruity.. So it will help get you some raisin with the dark crystal.


----------



## buttersd70 (13/3/09)

carared + caraaroma + carafa spec = :icon_drool2: 

Great combo.
edit...add in to that mix Bramling Cross in the hops for those great blackcurrant notes, and you'll crap your pants and call it icecream.


----------



## chappo1970 (13/3/09)

buttersd70 said:


> carared + caraaroma + carafa spec = :icon_drool2:
> 
> Great combo.
> edit...add in to that mix Bramling Cross in the hops for those great blackcurrant notes, and you'll crap your pants and call it icecream.



I was just whacking them together in BS in my maybe list.

How do think Bramling Cross would work with saaz MrB?


----------



## Mantis (13/3/09)

buttersd70 said:


> edit...add in to that mix Bramling Cross in the hops for those great blackcurrant notes, and you'll crap your pants and call it icecream.




On topic, but still a classic :lol:


----------



## buttersd70 (13/3/09)

Chappo said:


> I was just whacking them together in BS in my maybe list.
> 
> How do think Bramling Cross would work with saaz MrB?



oooh, with saaz? No, I don't see that working well at all....
But I don't see saaz working too flash with that grain combo, either....in a clean crisp pils, yea....not in a nutty, roasty, caramal-y brown/amber ale....2c.


----------



## chappo1970 (13/3/09)

Hmmmm... I'm barking up the wrong tree again, huh?

I guess I just haven't tasted enough varieties of hops yet.

The learning curve is good but steep.

EDIT: Thanks for the honest input Butters


----------



## Fourstar (13/3/09)

bconnery said:


> Some cara-aroma in there will definitely help with that...



+1 FTW!


----------



## buttersd70 (13/3/09)

What beer is your inspiration for this one, chappo?


----------



## chappo1970 (13/3/09)

All those damn irish red ales and red ales I bought last week. I had a Belgium brown amber ale, forgot its name now notes are in the man cave somewhere, that stuck out clearly in front. I took notes while tasting because I have a shocking memory for names and what I did and didn't like about the beer.

I do this because I have bought abbott ale about ten times, every time I see it I go "oooh is that one I like?" only to discover that I got it wrong again.

EDIT: Piss typing again


----------



## loikar (14/3/09)

Chappo said:


> EDIT: Piss typing again



=!...+!.....1=.....+1


----------



## dr K (14/3/09)

Not a lot of hops (if any cause I have tasted none) impart a raisin taste and I am yet to taste a malt that per se adds a raisin taste or character.
Correct choice of yeast will help you on your way but again there are no specifically raisin character making yeasts that I know of.
A high OG, the right yeast and a warmer ferment, along with a bit of oxygen, don't introduce it just let it happen with age and you are headed in the right direction.

K


----------



## InCider (14/3/09)

Raisins.


----------



## newguy (14/3/09)

Special B will give a very strong raisin flavour to the finished beer. If you can't find special B, go with the darkest English crystal malt you can find, approx. 150L+.

You can also use sugar to add a rum-raisin character, but you have to "cook" it first. You put dry white table sugar into a saucepan and heat it on the stove until it melts, darkens, and pretty much starts to boil. Stir very vigorously the entire time. Stop when it's roughly the colour of a beer bottle. You won't have to add much to your wort to get a subtle raisin character, maybe 125ml or so. Special B is a better choice, though.


----------



## warrenlw63 (14/3/09)

Try contacting G&G and using their dark candi syrup in place of dark sugar. It's got more raisins than a Christmas cake.  

Warren -


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (15/3/09)

schooey said:


> Raisins?.....
> 
> Hey someone had to say it...
> 
> I've found Muscavado sugar and cara malts like CaraAmber, CaraRed etc give a really nice background flavour of dried fruits and raisins



I've used some Dark Muscavado (around 4%) for the first time in a dark ale so will be interested to see what it does contribute.

I have definately manage raisiny flavours with Weyemann Cara Aroma and Wyeast 1762!

C&B
TDA


----------



## chappo1970 (15/3/09)

Thanks all for your kind responses. As usual with this fantastic hobby there are more than 10,000 ways to skin a cat.

I think I am going to experiment with the malts first but my gut tells me it's a mix of the malts and yeast. So I think if I can get Malt and hops profile right then it's just a matter which of the yeasts is going to work with me on this recipe.


----------



## roger mellie (15/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Thanks all for your kind responses. As usual with this fantastic hobby there are more than 10,000 ways to skin a cat.
> 
> I think I am going to experiment with the malts first but my gut tells me it's a mix of the malts and yeast. So I think if I can get Malt and hops profile right then it's just a matter which of the yeasts is going to work with me on this recipe.



Chappo - I was probably being a little harsh on Windsor - I have used it twice on English Beers and both have been failures - not undrinkable but just really sweet and fruity and one didn't drop the yeast (could have been infected) but was tipped out from memory - looked like the yarra.

The one that was more drinkable (which had some dark crystal in it BTW) was like a fruit cake - raisins were the only flavour I could taste at that point.

I know others use Windsor and rate it - I haven't had success with Windsor like I have with some liquids (1272/1084) and Nottingham - maybe its just my process but this is the only dry yeast I have used and not been 100% happywith.

Don't let that put you off - for a dry yeast it will certainly throw fruity notes - I got raisins - see how you go.

Cheers

RM


----------



## Luka (16/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Thanks all for your kind responses. As usual with this fantastic hobby there are more than 10,000 ways to skin a cat.
> 
> I think I am going to experiment with the malts first but my gut tells me it's a mix of the malts and yeast. So I think if I can get Malt and hops profile right then it's just a matter which of the yeasts is going to work with me on this recipe.



I think your pretty close there. Raisin type character from what I understand is an esther, so derived from the yeast reacting with the malt. I had a Fullers 1845 the other night, an Old Ale style and that had a beautiful soft raisin and plummy character, but age has a part to play too I reckon. They say that beer is aged for 100 days, how they age it I don't know, but age does contribute to that raisin flavour. More exprienced brewers here would be able to recommend specific yeast strains (some already have) and malt combos than I can, so possibly not the most informative reply really!


----------



## newguy (19/3/09)

Luka said:


> I think your pretty close there. Raisin type character from what I understand is an esther, so derived from the yeast reacting with the malt. I had a Fullers 1845 the other night, an Old Ale style and that had a beautiful soft raisin and plummy character, but age has a part to play too I reckon. They say that beer is aged for 100 days, how they age it I don't know, but age does contribute to that raisin flavour. More exprienced brewers here would be able to recommend specific yeast strains (some already have) and malt combos than I can, so possibly not the most informative reply really!



There are two ways to get a raisin character, and they depend primarily on the OG of the beer you're brewing. For low OG beers (1.060 or so and below), the only way to get raisins is to use a raisin-y malt like special B, a dark English crystal, or cara-aroma. For high OG beers (1.090 or so and above), the high alcohol in conjunction with high proportion of residual sugars and some oxidation will naturally produce raisin or dark fruit flavours even without any dark crystal or similar malts in the grist. Where esters are concerned, I've never encountered a raisin ester, but I'd welcome tips as to which yeast strain will produce it.


----------



## SumnerH (19/3/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> Go for the maple flavouring for the side benefit of pancakes. I ordered internationally through amazon.com in the states a box of the stuff for pancake purposes alone. Aussie costs on syrup is extortionist to the extreme. To make paxake syrup used 1/2 tsp of extract or so. You are talking 7 cents or less to make syrup costing upwards of $10 in the shops here localy. I even make my own self raising flour mix and pancake mix as that costs cents compared to the one use mixers in the supermarkets here. Buttermilk will react and make extra fluffy pancakes  -- 7c + 12c of generic std sugar In a ratio comparisson means you save in the thousands of dollars which justifies ordering it with intl shipping. And of course spend your savings on more brew equipment and supplies + can try your raisin flavour. Win win



Greetings from the USA from someone raised in maple syrup producing territory!

I think there's 3 different maple things in the conversation now.

1. Fake maple syrup is the liquid stuff that's 98% corn syrup. In the USA it's sold under brand names like Mrs Butterworth, Aunt Jemima, and Log Cabin. It has a raisiny taste and doesn't really taste much like maple.

2. Maple flavouring extract is the stuff used for making cookies with, and tastes a little more like maple. If you're used to fake maple syrup, reconstituting this is a fine substitute.

3. Real maple syrup contains nothing but maple sap and has the real maple flavor. This is the good stuff, it's what you want on pancakes--it's like night and day comparing this with the fake stuff. I think "Camp" is one brand of real syrup available in Oz.

My pancake recipe, converted to metric (You can mix up a whole bunch of the dry part ahead of time, then just add egg/butter/milk to a scoop of it when you need to make pancakes):
240 ml milk (buttermilk is best, but others will work)
2 large eggs
10 ml melted butter

240 ml white flour
30 ml sugar
10 ml baking powder (hopefully it's called the same thing there--different from plain baking soda)
Large dash of salt (maybe 1 ml)

Mix the dry stuff together. Add the rest, but add the milk slowly and stop when you get a good consistency (240ml is about right depending on how humid it is).

If you're really after big fluffy pancakes, definitely use buttermilk (the acid helps the baking powder work) and separate the yolks and whites and whisk a lot of air into the whites before adding them (and add them last).
And use _real_ maple syrup--the fake stuff is 98% corn syrup.


----------



## Pumpy (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> I am trying to nut out a recipe for a clone and I need a hint of raisins? It's basically a brown ale with an amber tinge. Any ideas?



Ok Chappo Here is the secret , you want to impart a raisin flavour you really need Briess 'Special Roast' but you cant get that in Australia .

So here is what you do. 

Take some crystal malted grain 100 EBC.

Soak in water for 24 hours .

drain and spread on baking paper and bake in oven at about 120C 


You will get a lovely toasted raisiny flavour from the grain 


Pumpy ( Ps dont tell anyone this secret  )


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> Ok Chappo Here is the secret , you want to impart a raisin flavour you really need Briess 'Special Roast' but you cant get that in Australia .
> 
> So here is what you do.
> 
> ...



:lol: Thanks pumpy your secret is safe with me!
Well I tried steeping combinations of grains last night in a coffee plunger and to be honest nothing jumped out at me and said YES. I will give the roasting ago tonight, so I can maybe be putting something together for a brew friday night, time permitting.

How much % wise would you suggest into the grain bill pumpy?


----------



## reviled (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> :lol: Thanks pumpy your secret is safe with me!
> Well I tried steeping combinations of grains last night in a coffee plunger and to be honest nothing jumped out at me and said YES. I will give the roasting ago tonight, so I can maybe be putting something together for a brew friday night, time permitting.
> 
> How much % wise would you suggest into the grain bill pumpy?



I reckon it can be hard to spot just by steeping, you need a bit of fermentation to happen as it changes the aromas imo..


----------



## Ross (19/3/09)

Seriously....why not try adding some raisins.

i know Bindi did a chocolate beer using a rum & raisin bar, & by all accounts all the flavours came through beautifully into the beer.

cheers Ross


----------



## reviled (19/3/09)

Ross said:


> Seriously....why not try adding some raisins.
> 
> i know Bindi did a chocolate beer using a rum & raisin bar, & by all accounts all the flavours came through beautifully into the beer.
> 
> cheers Ross



Actually not a bad idea Ross! I tried a strong belgian that a mate made with Sultanas in it and the flavour comes across!


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Hmmmm? Raisins you say? 
Well it's not a stupid suggestion but if I do it there are consequences. I will have to grovel to InCider for forgiveness foir starters... I kinda gave him one in the ribs for the suggestion but I have big shoulders.

Maybe a soak in hot boiling water, even a boil? Then a quick blend to release the flavours? Correct me if I'm wrong but grapes and raisins are wild yeast magnets so I will definitely have to boil them to kill any nasties?


----------



## reviled (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Hmmmm? Raisins you say?
> Well it's not a stupid suggestion but if I do it there are consequences. I will have to grovel to InCider for forgiveness foir starters... I kinda gave him one in the ribs for the suggestion but I have big shoulders.
> 
> Maybe a soak in hot boiling water, even a boil? Then a quick blend to release the flavours? Correct me if I'm wrong but grapes and raisins are wild yeast magnets so I will definitely have to boil them to kill any nasties?



I know grapes are, not sure about raisins.. Im also not sure if youd want to boil them? Maybe, maybe not? If not maybe soak them in vodka and add to secondary? Or you could steam em like I did with oak chips.. 

Hmm, to boil or not to boil, that is the question


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Hmmmm...vodka you say? 

I was definely going to go to secondary basically treat it like a fruit beer, although I haven't done one of those yet. There's a thread on here about Ginger Beer and Ginger Plant which one of the methods to start the plant is to use raisins hence my trepidations with just throwing raisins in untreated for nasties. Might have to read up a bit more on technique with using fruits?

Although my gut feel is still with a malt and yeast combo that throws raisin overtones.

BTW thank Newguy for your input your thoughts are inline with some of my irrational thinking.

SumnerH: G'day Mate! :icon_offtopic: I am going to have a crack at that recipe for pancakes, thanks for sharing. I lived in New York for 3 years and absolutely miss my hit of American cuisine. I banter alot about the marple syrup not being REAL maple syrup here in OZ. I have a couple of Camp bottle in the pantry which is close but no dice compared to the real stuff. I remember as a kid in New Jersey making maple syrup at school. Good days!


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

So if you're after coffee flavour in a stout, you should add coffee. Fruity ale? What better than fruit? I sometimes detect sherbet-like flavours in Eurolagers like Utenos gold and Svyturys. I wonder how much sherbet they put in?


----------



## Adamt (19/3/09)

Couldn't agree with your sentiments more PoMo. Make beer, not beer + x.


----------



## Ross (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Maybe a soak in hot boiling water, even a boil? Then a quick blend to release the flavours? Correct me if I'm wrong but grapes and raisins are wild yeast magnets so I will definitely have to boil them to kill any nasties?




Chappo - Just add to your boil mate, I'd be mincing them & adding 15 mins from end of boil.

Cheers Ross


----------



## reviled (19/3/09)

Adamt said:


> Couldn't agree with your sentiments more PoMo. Make beer, not beer + x.



Says the man who decided to put pasta noodles in a beer? :blink: 

Come on, we all like to experiment some what.. Sometimes with very good results, like my port beer, was very happy with it!


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

reviled said:


> Says the man who decided to put pasta noodles in a beer? :blink:



I think you'll find that that was religious observance. RAmen.


----------



## MAUOMBO (19/3/09)

Redoak do (or at least did) a christmas beer ... maybe they will help???

MAUOMBO

http://www.beerguide.com.au/beer-reviews/R...Christmas-Cheer


----------



## reviled (19/3/09)

PostModern said:


> I think you'll find that that was religious observance. RAmen.



That doesnt make it ok


----------



## Adamt (19/3/09)

reviled said:


> Says the man who decided to put pasta noodles in a beer? :blink:
> 
> Come on, we all like to experiment some what.. Sometimes with very good results, like my port beer, was very happy with it!






PostModern said:


> I think you'll find that that was religious observance. RAmen.



Indeed, religious activities do not need to be justified.


----------



## reviled (19/3/09)

Adamt said:


> Indeed, religious activities do not need to be justified.



ROFL, jeezuz, youre sounding like something out of Al Queda now :lol:


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

Ooooooright ooright ooright....

The moist "raisiny" beer I ever brewed was a dubbel. Malt bill was pilsner, munich, carafa special III, touch of amber, touch of dark cyrstal, touch of caraaroma, 20% white sugar and fermented with, iirc, 1762. As well as raisins, there were chocolate, prune and other dried fruit notes. I did not add any raisins, prunes or candy. My point above was about getting these beer flavours from beer ingredients and technique. Coffee in stout is one that really gets to me. Why not have a cup of coffee and then a stout. Why do both those things have to be in the same glass????


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> I am trying to nut out a recipe for a clone and I need a hint of raisins? It's basically a brown ale with an amber tinge. Any ideas?



Geez boys I was only asking for some ideas and or suggestions being a noob and all?

Thanks reviled but I wasn't bothered by the comments as ppl's opinions are just that, their opinions. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Supra-Jim (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Geez boys I was only asking for some ideas and or suggestions being a noob and all?









:lol: Sorry Chappo, couldn't help myself. You know we luvs ya!!

Maybe chop up some raisins, quick boil to sterilize them, the rack onto them in a secondary for a few days. That way you can taste a sample each day or so and when the hint of raisin seems right, thats when you keg.

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Yeah! Thanks SJ now I have snot all over my screen.


----------



## Supra-Jim (19/3/09)

Well duh! You've got press print first!!! Geez...... old people and computers  

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## Ross (19/3/09)

PostModern said:


> Coffee in stout is one that really gets to me. Why not have a cup of coffee and then a stout. Why do both those things have to be in the same glass????



Because they taste great & we can B) 

Cheers Ross


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

But you taste neither the coffee nor the stout. Each to their own, but I reckon it's a wank.


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Ok what I am trying to clone is a Brunehaut Organic Amber. I got my hands on a few from the Wine Emporium in Fortitude Valley and I really enjoyed it. They are new into Australia or maybe just Queensland, I dunno but it tickled my fancy.

Here's the website if anyone is interested. http://www.brunehaut.com/

Ross I will bring one into the shop on Saturday to see what you think?


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Here's the website if anyone is interested. http://www.brunehaut.com/



From the process link on that site, they use barley and wheat. No mention of grapes.


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Yep POMO also mentions special yeasts. Hence I am back to where I was 15 posts ago. It has to be a combination of specialty malts and yeast that drives the flavour.

Edit: I saw the raisins as a quick fix but on thinking about it they would dominate it too much IMO.


----------



## roger mellie (19/3/09)

PostModern said:


> Ooooooright ooright ooright....
> 
> The moist "raisiny" beer I ever brewed was a dubbel. Malt bill was pilsner, munich, carafa special III, touch of amber, touch of dark cyrstal, touch of caraaroma, 20% white sugar and fermented with, iirc, 1762. As well as raisins, there were chocolate, prune and other dried fruit notes. I did not add any raisins, prunes or candy. My point above was about getting these beer flavours from beer ingredients and technique. Coffee in stout is one that really gets to me. Why not have a cup of coffee and then a stout. Why do both those things have to be in the same glass????



So if I want to brew a Rasberry Hefeweizen - what are my options? I guess I add fruit to the beer.

I think your being a bit precious PoMo - surely the final result is what is important - if it tastes the goods - so be it.

Sheeesh

RM


----------



## drsmurto (19/3/09)

Surely a mix of dark crystals such as caraaroma/caramunich III/carafa, combined with one of the more ester producing belgian yeasts would get you close.

From the description on the website it sounds like it may be producing aromas/flavours associated with the english old ale..........

I get a toffee, dried fruit sort of taste/aroma from heavy handed use of Bairds Dark Crystal. Think Theakstons Old Peculier.


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (19/3/09)

PostModern said:


> But you taste neither the coffee nor the stout. Each to their own, but I reckon it's a wank.



Very open minded of you there PoMo, guess that's why they made you a moderator on AHB :lol: !

C&B
TDA


----------



## warrenlw63 (19/3/09)

PostModern said:


> I reckon it's a wank.



Not sure how you can quantify that tasting like raisins? The things people do for research purposes.  

Warren -


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

roger mellie said:


> So if I want to brew a Rasberry Hefeweizen - what are my options? I guess I add fruit to the beer.
> 
> I think your being a bit precious PoMo - surely the final result is what is important - if it tastes the goods - so be it.
> 
> ...



I've tasted a lot of beers doctored with things like raspberries, chocolate, coffee, fruit of all kinds and while "different", I've only actually *enjoyed *one or two, and they were commercial krieks, which are very out there, complex wild fermented freaks of beers. In my experience, brewing with strong flavoured fruity additions is a waste of time. Seldom do I drink a beer and think "hmmm, really could use some pineapple"...

I knew my words would raise a controversy...



THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Very open minded of you there PoMo, guess that's why they made you a moderator on AHB :lol: !
> 
> C&B
> TDA



I can post my opinion, like any member. I did post "each to his own", which you quoted. If you like things like Youngs Choc stout, then good for you, all I could taste was chocolate essence ruining what could have been a good dry stout. I'd much prefer to drink a decent beer and nibble a piece of good dark chocolate.

Raisin flavours will come from specialty malts in the right proportion. You don't need to put raisins in the kettle or fermenter. Coffee flavours will come from roast barley in a stout, you don't need to add coffee. But as I said, each to his own. I would have to be pretty bored of "normal" beer before I wasted a precious brew day making something like that.


----------



## KoNG (19/3/09)

The missionary position hey pomo


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

Plenty of ways of enjoying yourself without going into the chocolate tunnel. But, hey, all power to you.


----------



## Muggus (19/3/09)

Among Belgian dark ales and Old-style English beers, i'd also associate raisin characters to certain dessert and fortified wines, particularly muscat and port.
Aside from being wines at heart, which are made from grapes and raisins are grapes etc etc, alot of the raisin character you get from these wines is from other forces at play. Oak aging is one thing, and oxidisation not just from being barrel aged but in particular, bottle aged "Vintage" ports, that seem to exhibit a bit more raisin. In fact, raisin is a flavour often associated with oxidisation in beer...which isn't so much a good thing.

Anyway, what i'm trying to say is not so much add port or muscat to you beer (though it could work), rather consider the prospect of aging your beer on oak, or leave it to mature in the fermenter for an extended period to oxidise it just the little bit extra. However, make sure it is a particularly hearty brew to begin, plenty of residual sugars and crystal malts (as well as other dark malts) definately help with the aging process.


----------



## KoNG (19/3/09)

PostModern said:


> Plenty of ways of enjoying yourself without going into the chocolate tunnel. But, hey, all power to you.



 jeeez i made no mention double decoction  you is dirty bugger..!


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

Good for you squeezing in another double entendre. Can we let Chappo have his thread back now?


----------



## KoNG (19/3/09)

Yep agreed, has been a bit derailed...
you might need to go and rack that ... oatmeal stout you have in primary.. :lol:

Sorry chappo,

KoNG


----------



## PostModern (19/3/09)

As I've been saying there is nothing in my brewing philosophy against mash and kettle adjuncts. You'll often see me sugaring up a brew, or mashing rice in a lager. Good traditional brewing practices.

*gah* I'm at it again. Letting it go... letting it go...

Sorry Chappo.


----------



## Pumpy (19/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> Ok Chappo Here is the secret , you want to impart a raisin flavour you really need Briess 'Special Roast' but you cant get that in Australia .
> 
> So here is what you do.
> 
> ...






Chappo said:


> :lol: Thanks pumpy your secret is safe with me!
> Well I tried steeping combinations of grains last night in a coffee plunger and to be honest nothing jumped out at me and said YES. I will give the roasting ago tonight, so I can maybe be putting something together for a brew friday night, time permitting.
> 
> How much % wise would you suggest into the grain bill pumpy?




Chappo there was only a small amount of the Special Roast in this recipe I done but it came out nice


Jamil Zainasheff Special bitter 
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale) 


Type: All Grain
Date: 9/01/2009 
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Brewer: Pumpy 
Boil Size: 47.96 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment 40 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.50 kg BB Ale Malt (6.0 EBC) Grain 88.32 % 
0.40 kg JWM Dark Crystal (220.6 EBC) Grain 4.71 % 
0.40 kg Weyermann Melanoidin (70.9 EBC) Grain 4.71 % 
0.19 kg Special Roast (100.5 EBC) Grain 2.25 % 
100.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (60 min) Hops 25.6 IBU 
28.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (20 min) Hops 4.3 IBU 
28.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (1 min) Hops 0.3 IBU 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.83 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 % 
Bitterness: 30.3 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 22.3 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 8.49 kg 
Sparge Water: 21.16 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Single Infusion, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 22.13 L of water at 72.2 C 65.6 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 14.17 L of water at 93.6 C 75.6 C


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Thanks Pumpy for that.

Ok I have measured 200gr of Crystal into a tupperware container. But how much water and should be hot or cold?


----------



## Pumpy (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Thanks Pumpy for that.
> 
> Ok I have measured 200gr of Crystal into a tupperware container. But how much water and should be hot or cold?




Chappo

Cold is Ok give it a good wetting and leave for 24 hours

Pumpy


----------



## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Cheers Pumpy. Done and glad wrapped.

:icon_offtopic: I opened the vac pack and it just occured to me I will never get sick of the smell of malted grains :icon_drool2:


----------



## PostModern (20/3/09)

Chappo said:


> I will never get sick of the smell of malted grains :icon_drool2:



+1. Smells much better than opening a pack of raisins. 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.


----------



## chappo1970 (20/3/09)

PostModern said:


> +1. Smells much better than opening a pack of raisins.
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help myself.



Bwahahaha! :icon_cheers: 

Just couldn't help yourself PoMo huh?

OK the grains are nicely spread out on a damp paper towel in a tupperware container in the fridge so tonight I can go a roasting. Might have to read through that thread somewhere here on the making your own crystals experiment SWJ? did.


----------



## warrenlw63 (20/3/09)

Chappo

Try this article. It should give you all of the info you need. 

Warren -


----------



## chappo1970 (20/3/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Chappo
> 
> Try this article. It should give you all of the info you need.
> 
> Warren -



Thanks Warren i will use that as my guide.


----------

