# Black Mac Clone...or Close Enough



## wbosher (17/12/12)

Hi guys,

I recently had a Black Mac dark ale and really enjoyed it - http://www.macs.co.nz/macs-beers.html#tab5

Now, I don't drink dark beers (at least until now), so know very little about them. I've taken a look on the recipe DB and am now just more confused than ever. Is there a difference between a dark ale, porter, and stout? Or just different names for basically the same thing? 

Anyway, if someone out there has a clone of this beer, or something similar, I'd love to try it. Never used Fuggles before so quite keen to try it.


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## slash22000 (17/12/12)

From what I understand ... Dark ale -> Porter -> Stout = Dark -> Darker -> Darkest. I don't really drink many dark beers either, so I couldn't give you exact tasting notes on the different styles, but yes there is a difference.


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## Cocko (17/12/12)

No clone recipe but see attached for future reference of where/how the beer tree goes.

Cheers


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## Nick JD (17/12/12)

Reading the BJCP style guidelines is probably the quickest possible journey to beersnobbery. 

You'll be able to bore people at BBQs to tears describing things like their Corona is technically an American Premium Lager and is made from stockfeed.

Check out porter and stout and the various brown ales.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_stylebook.pdf


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## wbosher (17/12/12)

Nick JD said:


> Reading the BJCP style guidelines is probably the quickest possible journey to beersnobbery.
> 
> You'll be able to bore people at BBQs to tears describing things like their Corona is technically an American Premium Lager and is made from stockfeed.
> 
> ...



Ok, that's just far too much information for this little brain...lets simplify things shall we? Me want dark beer like Black Mac. :lol: 

I saw this somewhere and it looks interesting:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 75 Prince of Darkness
Brewer: DrSmurto
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Brown Porter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 33.55 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 50.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 35.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.25 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 85.37 % 
0.25 kg Amber Malt (Bairds) (100.0 EBC) Grain 4.07 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate Malt (Bairds) (1100.0 EBC) Grain 4.07 % 
0.25 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.07 % 
0.15 kg Crystal, Dark (Bairds) (240.0 EBC) Grain 2.44 % 
80.00 gm Fuggles [3.90 %] (60 min) Hops 28.4 IBU 
30.00 gm Fuggles [3.90 %] (20 min) Hops 7.0 IBU 
25.00 gm Fuggles [3.940 %] (0 min) 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028)


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## Wolfman (17/12/12)

I have a clone of sorts about to go on. 

Based on this:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=492

Doc used US-05 i'm giving Wyeast 2565 a go.


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## halabut (17/12/12)

Black Mac is actually a lager, like all Monteiths beers (it's megaswill). US-05 fermented cold will give a pretty good approximation.

Hutch


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## Wasabi (17/12/12)

AlecH said:


> Black Mac is actually a lager, like all Monteiths beers (it's megaswill). US-05 fermented cold will give a pretty good approximation.
> 
> Hutch



Except that it isn't a Monteiths beer.....

The way it is made makes it a dark lager if you want to be technical about it.....


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## Wasabi (17/12/12)

Cocko said:


> No clone recipe but see attached for future reference of where/how the beer tree goes.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> View attachment 59379



Wow! The periodic table I "shared" ll those years ago is still kicking about. I have the original on the wall of my sensory lab, it makes a good talking point when I'mtraining on beer styles.


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## Cocko (17/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> Wow! The periodic table I "shared" ll those years ago is still kicking about. I have the original on the wall of my sensory lab, it makes a good talking point when I'mtraining on beer styles.



Its a great chart, so I enjoy dropping it in around the threads when I can.... It cant hurt.

:icon_cheers:


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## wbosher (18/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> Except that it isn't a Monteiths beer.....
> 
> The way it is made makes it a dark lager if you want to be technical about it.....




Ok, now I'm confused. The website says it is a "Dark Ale".


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## Wasabi (18/12/12)

wbosher said:


> Ok, now I'm confused. The website says it is a "Dark Ale".



Yeah, welcome to the complicated world of beer styles and the law. 

I say "technically" it is made as a dark lager, but it is made in such a way as to fit the sensory profile of an ale.

At the heart of it, the style of a beer can be somewhat disconnected from the process in which it is made. There is no legal definition involved so brewers are free to call their beer however they think it is best described.

Black Mac is actually entered into beer competitions, and wins silver quite often, as a Stout. So the judges deem it as a good example as how the style guidelines define a stout.

Marketing prefer to use Dark Ale, and it is certainly made more to fit the profile of a Dark Ale. 

Too many people can get hung up on beer styles and the process.


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## wbosher (18/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> Yeah, welcome to the complicated world of beer styles and the law.
> 
> I say "technically" it is made as a dark lager, but it is made in such a way as to fit the sensory profile of an ale.
> 
> ...



Thanks Wasabi. I'm not concerned about the technical style and all that, just thought it might make it easier to find a clone or something similar if I knew where to start looking. 

The link posted by Wolfman looks interesting, I'll need to scale it down a little though. That recipe says plugs, would that be the same quantities for pellets?


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## Wolfman (18/12/12)

In saying that, I just pitched the yeast for my schwarzbier beer with a kolsch yeast. 

Can't wait to try this schwarzbier!


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## Wasabi (18/12/12)

wbosher said:


> Thanks Wasabi. I'm not concerned about the technical style and all that, just thought it might make it easier to find a clone or something similar if I knew where to start looking.
> 
> The link posted by Wolfman looks interesting, I'll need to scale it down a little though. That recipe says plugs, would that be the same quantities for pellets?



"US-05 fermented cold " as per AlecH would be a good way to go, try and keep those esters down. Pale, Crystal (use sparingly), Chocolate and Roast. No adjunct and an IBU of 35ish should be a good place to start.

Good luck!


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## Wasabi (18/12/12)

Wolfman said:


> In saying that, I just pitched the yeast for my schwarzbier beer with a kolsch yeast.



See! Don't get hung up on beer styles and conformance unless you're entering competitions or selling the the stuff. 

One of the true joys of homebrew is that you get to make whatever *you* like to drink, and don't need to justify it to anyone!!!


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## wbosher (18/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> See! Don't get hung up on beer styles and conformance unless you're entering competitions or selling the the stuff.
> 
> One of the true joys of homebrew is that you get to make whatever *you* like to drink, and don't need to justify it to anyone!!!



That's the problem, I don't really know what I like to drink, still experimenting. :lol: Until fairly recently I've been drinking some pretty bloody aweful commercial beers (DB draught, Tui etc...) thinking they were ok. No going back now though.


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## Wolfman (18/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> See! Don't get hung up on beer styles and conformance unless you're entering competitions or selling the the stuff.
> 
> One of the true joys of homebrew is that you get to make whatever *you* like to drink, and don't need to justify it to anyone!!!



Nar mate wasn't getting hung up on style at all. Was actually going to use 1272 but after reading some info here and there thought I would try 2565 instead. 
In saying that, I try to brew close as possible to style on my first attempt at any style. You really need to understand what it's meant to taste like before you start mucking around. 
Just my take on home brewing!


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## Malted (18/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> Wow! The periodic table I "shared" ll those years ago is still kicking about. I have the original on the wall of my sensory lab, it makes a good talking point when I'mtraining on beer styles.




Should have been called "The Beeriodic Table" :lol:


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## Malted (18/12/12)

wbosher said:


> Is there a difference between a dark ale, porter, and stout? Or just different names for basically the same thing?





wbosher said:


> Ok, that's just far too much information for this little brain...lets simplify things shall we?



Why ask a question if you don't want a good answer? 
You were given a fine answer. Had you taken the time to read the information given to you you would have found the BJCP guide is a good source of information about styles (as interpreted by Americans) that include good flavour, aroma and physical descriptions and details about ingredients.
I encourage you to have a read of it from time to time, you might read about some beers that sound like they would tickle your fancy and then you could try to seek out commercial examples (which BJCP also list for most styles).

Edit: as noted by others, the BJCP style guide is not the be all and end all. There are many good beers that don't fall neatly into the style guidelines. However, it is hard to find documentation about these types of beers so the BJCP style guidelines is still good reading material to start with.


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## Florian (18/12/12)

Malted said:


> Why ask a question if you don't want a good answer?
> 
> You were given a fine answer. Had you taken the time to read the information given to you you would have found the BJCP guide is a good source of information about styles (as interpreted by Americans) that include good flavour, aroma and physical descriptions and details about ingredients.
> I encourage you to have a read of it from time to time, you might read about some beers that sound like they would tickle your fancy and then you could try to seek out commercial examples (which BJCP also list for most styles).
> ...


You could have just answered his questions, Malted... 





wbosher said:


> Is there a difference between a dark ale, porter, and stout?


Yes


wbosher said:


> Or just different names for basically the same thing?


No


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## Malted (18/12/12)

Florian said:


> You could have just answered his questions, Malted...


Thank you Mr Miyagi, I am not worthy of your teachings. :lol:


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## wbosher (19/12/12)

Malted said:


> Why ask a question if you don't want a good answer?
> You were given a fine answer. Had you taken the time to read the information given to you you would have found the BJCP guide is a good source of information about styles (as interpreted by Americans) that include good flavour, aroma and physical descriptions and details about ingredients.
> I encourage you to have a read of it from time to time, you might read about some beers that sound like they would tickle your fancy and then you could try to seek out commercial examples (which BJCP also list for most styles).
> 
> Edit: as noted by others, the BJCP style guide is not the be all and end all. There are many good beers that don't fall neatly into the style guidelines. However, it is hard to find documentation about these types of beers so the BJCP style guidelines is still good reading material to start with.




I have been reading the information on the BJCP style guide, my comment was a little tounge in cheek. 

It does seem to me that some of these styles are quite similar though. I am a little disadvantaged in that I have no sense of smell, so a lot of the information on aroma is irrelevant to me, and I guess that would also affect the taste somewhat. So even though these types of beers are different, they will probably all taste quite similar to me.

My main objective is to find something similar to the Black Mac beer, which I have recently discovered I quite like. There is a recipe posted by Wolfman which I might try soon. I guess I will need to try a few more dark beers now to compare.

I also recently tried a Monteiths dark as well but found that a little bland, but that could be due to my less than brilliant smell, however the Macs was quite tasty. Where am I going with this? I don't really know, too early in the morning...


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## halabut (20/12/12)

Wasabi said:


> Except that it isn't a Monteiths beer.....
> 
> The way it is made makes it a dark lager if you want to be technical about it.....



My bad, I should really read things before replying to them. I'm not sure if Macs are lagers or ales, but if they're ales they're very clean so the US-05 comment stands.


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