# How do I get rid of the homebrew taste?



## jamie72 (1/6/13)

I am new to brewing and I am wondering how do I make a beer without that tell tale taste of a home brew??
Is it the carb drops, is it because I use the tins and not AG??
If anyone on the gold coast has the patients I'd love to learn all I can.

Cheers Jamie


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## Rowy (1/6/13)

It you use the tins you won't get rid of it.


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## Rodolphe01 (1/6/13)

Combination of the can and kit yeast generally. IMO first step in getting better beer is better yeast and fermentation temperature control.


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## philmud (1/6/13)

My father in law associates yeastiness with home brew, whether it's esters or just residual yeast. Is that the flavour you mean, or is it the infamous homebrew twang? If it's the first one, how long are you leaving your beer in the fermenter for and what temperatures are you brewing at? If you're using Cooper's kits, ignore the instructions and read up here for better practice brewing methods.


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## QldKev (1/6/13)

The only way is to move away from the kits into extract or all grain, it's just uncanny


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## citizensnips (1/6/13)

if you cant move to BIAB or AG for whatever reason then lots of hops and steeping grains to help mask it.


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## philmud (1/6/13)

QldKev said:


> ...it's just uncanny


I see what you did there.


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## going down a hill (1/6/13)

download this
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/29655-kit-and-extract-beer-spreadsheet/
Play around with it, it will make sense after a little while.

You could try
Temp control, this helps a lot!
Using better yeast , Us05, Nottingham or S-04. Then you can use the kit yeast as nutrient when you are boiling the wort.
If you don't want to jump into all grain yet, try extract brewing,it's a gateway brewing practice because you learn about hop additions (this is where the spreadsheet comes into itself).
Reading, reading and improving your practice.


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## Bribie G (1/6/13)

SWMBO actually quite likes her Nescafe Blend 43 and will often brew up a cup instead of the Expressi (which makes fairly reasonable coffee). When we are out she'll have a Vittorio or a Grinders Coffee or a Gloria Jeans or............

Question is, how do you get rid of that Blend 43 taste . 

To be fair, some partials will vastly improve the beers, but when you get to the stage of partial mashing it takes almost as long as just doing an All Grain batch. I skipped using extracts and went from kits+partials straight to All grain BIAB.

Extracts are very popular in the USA because they don't (until recently) have a strong kits tradition. So a sort of "hierarchy" has developed, Kits->Extracts->Partials->AG.

In the case of modern brewing in Australia ..... bullshit. Going from kits to AG has never been easier and the gear and ingredients never more available than today. Making the switch is not difficult.


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## roverfj1200 (1/6/13)

Done a lot of tins and stuff and would suggest.

Temp control
Better yeast
Cold conditioning
Watch out for poor malt. (HBS dry)
Move to extract 30min boil
Time in the bottle (4 weeks or longer)

Watch out if you use hops to mask it as you can easierly make shite beer this way. (over use)

You do get used to the twang if you brew the same thing.

Clean and cleaner. Make sure your not moving bugs around your brews.

The move to AG would be next BUT would be poor if you don't have all the above in control.

Would come and help you but I don't think I have the time right now. Good luck

Cheers.


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## Rowy (1/6/13)

jamie72 said:


> I am new to brewing and I am wondering how do I make a beer without that tell tale taste of a home brew??Is it the carb drops, is it because I use the tins and not AG??If anyone on the gold coast has the patients I'd love to learn all I can.Cheers Jamie


Jamie there is a Gold Coast brewers club on this site. Why not get in touch with them and see if you can attend a brew day and see how easy it is to do all grain. From what I've read here they seem pretty active and helpful.


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## dammag (1/6/13)

We have our meeting on the second Friday of the month at Burleigh Brewing at 6pm. Come down and try out a few different home brews and talk to us guys.

If you are on Facebook look for GoldCLUB.

I persisted with kits and extracts for a fair time and made them taste alright but have recently got into doing half batch BIAB. It is easier to make good beer this way and it is good fun if you like actually making beer instead of just brewing it to drink.

We are a friendly bunch and there's always more than enough beer to drink at the meetings so don't be afraid to turn up to say hello and try some beer.

Damian


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## Nick JD (1/6/13)

I'm making an AG batch of an American IPA tomorrow if you wanna pop round, Jamie.

It's pretty easy.

PM me if you're keen. I'm in Burleigh Waters.


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## Bribie G (1/6/13)

Jamie, don't be nervous of Nick, he's a big pussy as you can see.


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## Rowy (1/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> Jamie, don't be nervous of Nick, he's a big pussy as you can see.


I agree Bribie since he's been released he's been a model citizen. That whole gun thing was blown out of proportion in my opinion.


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## Nick JD (1/6/13)

Just to clarify, it was a water-cooled Vickers Machine Gun.

Who knew it was illegal to mount it on a Ute?


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## Maheel (1/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> SWMBO actually quite likes her Nescafe Blend 43 and will often brew up a cup instead of the Expressi (which makes fairly reasonable coffee).
> 
> 
> *When we are out she'll have a Vittorio or a Grinders Coffee or a Gloria Jeans or............*


seems to me she is still drinking the VB / XXXX of the coffee world.....

if your doing AG Bribie you should take your coffee to the nest level and start roasting your own beans as well


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## Bribie G (1/6/13)

I don't drink coffee, sets off my hiatus hernia. I would have thought that Vittorio was at least James Squire 150 lashes?


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## markjd (1/6/13)

Nick JD said:


> Just to clarify, it was a water-cooled Vickers Machine Gun.
> 
> Who knew it was illegal to mount it on a Ute?


It's easy when


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## TidalPete (1/6/13)

I've always been led to believe that "Can Twang" is caused by the dehydration/compression of the liquid malt during canning.
Might be correct or it might not? Never bothered finding out. Just adding my 2 cents.

Anyway, I agree with those who recommend jumping straight into the deep end & sink or swim by skipping the partial/liquid malt brewing. 
Best thing to do is attend a brewday ASAP.


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## fletcher (1/6/13)

definitely try and get on the BIAB train if you can mate. i made two kit brews, hated them, even with temp control and better yeasts etc. moved to BIAB, made my first beer and was shocked with how much better it was in comparison. check out nick's BIAB for $30 thread and you'll be converted. it's insanely easy.


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## Damien13 (1/6/13)

Looking forward to seeing you at the GoldCLUB meeting this month mate!


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## AJ80 (1/6/13)

Give full extract brewing a crack, I did two kit tins and have since knocked out about a dozen full extract brews. It'll help get your head around using hops as well as give a handy intro to grains (I.e. steeping speciality grains). I've made some beers I'm very happy with this way. 

I'm now in the process of building a 3v AG system and am glad I took my time learning all I could from the extract brewing process. Not everyone takes this step, but it worked for me and taught me heaps. 

Short answer after this and as said above, ditch the kit tins (can them?) to lose the twang. 

Hope this helps.


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## Dan Pratt (1/6/13)

It has been said already but to confirm from experience. 

- better yeast
- temperature controlled ferment
- cold conditioning after ferment
- patience after packaging

I would also recommend biab and grain brewing. 

Enjoy the journey.


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## Bribie G (2/6/13)

Matt from Grafton called in yesterday on his way back from Sydney and presented me with a Coopers Showbag for my participation by entering a beer in the Grafton Show.
He seemed a bit apologetic as it's kit stuff but in fact it's a real bonus.

My kegs are low and I am now the proud owner of numerous beer bling:





The tin is Coopers Aussie Pale Ale.

A number of kit brewers have posted lately (and will continue to post of course) about how to step up a kit. So here's an opportunity to do something constructive instead of "get an urn, dudes" . I'll start a separate thread and will:

Do a partial mash with a kilo of grain in a kitchen container and esky.
Use the kit and the pack of BE2

Pimp with perhaps 12g of Pride of Ringwood for maybe 20 mins.

Ferment out with - Bingo - a schott bottle of Coopers Recultured Bottle yeast that I have in the fridge from my last AusPA brew.

I'll bump this thread later when I have done the new thread, which will be this afternoon.


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## Bizier (2/6/13)

You could get rid of the homebrew taste by drinking commercial beer...

I am amazed that people still treat AG like it is some advanced voodoo that noobs should be 'saved' from. There is so much info out there these days that anyone should be able to just jump in with basically no capital outlay and have a crack.

I suggest going to some people's houses, as you have offers already. Get their opinions on a super cheap ghetto rig. Use that until you work out whether it is for you, and if it is, what you would like to move on to. OR if you know, just work out a good rig you want and build or buy it from the get-go. So much dough gets wasted when people upgrade as they learn. I am a case in point.


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## Bizier (2/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> I don't drink coffee, sets off my hiatus hernia. I would have thought that Vittorio was at least James Squire 150 lashes?





> We'd always have walking-bird on Thanksgiving, with all the trimmings: cranberries, injun eyes, yams stuffed with gunpowder. Then we'd all watch football, which in those days was called baseball...


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## bum (2/6/13)

So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time...


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## surly (2/6/13)

We only had brown onions on account of the war


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## Bizier (2/6/13)

Sorry Bribie, I don't mean to undermine your contribution, but I might ask Dane to change your username to Abraham.


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## fletcher (2/6/13)

Bizier said:


> You could get rid of the homebrew taste by drinking commercial beer...
> 
> I am amazed that people still treat AG like it is some advanced voodoo that noobs should be 'saved' from. There is so much info out there these days that anyone should be able to just jump in with basically no capital outlay and have a crack.
> 
> I suggest going to some people's houses, as you have offers already. Get their opinions on a super cheap ghetto rig. Use that until you work out whether it is for you, and if it is, what you would like to move on to. OR if you know, just work out a good rig you want and build or buy it from the get-go. So much dough gets wasted when people upgrade as they learn. I am a case in point.


i think it's more that for noobs, especially like me in my position with not knowing a single _thing_ about home brewing, is that unless you go into a homebrew shop or know someone who AG brews, you don't really know the difference (or even, that AG exists). i just thought the only way to homebrew was with kits. until i got on here and then did some real reading up on it because the first few beers i made were shithouse. my eyes were opened wide soon afterwards.


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## Bribie G (2/6/13)

Pimpin' a kit thread: thus spake Bribie G


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## pk.sax (2/6/13)

Agreeing with you fletcher. A much loved hb shop owner's response when I first mentioned dissatisfaction with the kits and wanting to know what to do to make proper beer since obviously, beer isn't supposed to be made from cane sugar, was 'oh, you want to make grain brews'. He didn't exactly lead me to the next step either. Of course, back then, biab was still kinda new. Telling a newb to set up for all grain wasn't exactly in any retailer's best interests. Peeps are lucky with all the good resources and guides out there now.

For my first stovetop biab, nick's 30 bucks thread and how to brew gave me all I needed to know. It fermented out super easy, no stalling like the damn kit did. I still reckon its the easiest method to churn out 10-15L of very nice beer with one pot, a stick thermo, square of voile, foldback clips and a towel or two to lag the pot for the mash. A kitchen timer and scales serve to measure both time and hops.


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## Phillo (2/6/13)

I love my all grain beers, but I used to make awesome kit beers. Maybe my palette is not refined enough to taste 'kit twang', but people who tried my kit brews always said that they didn't taste like home brews.

A Coopers English Bitter kit, 1.5kg LME, 250g dex, 250g crystal and some EKG. Bloody beautiful. I never moved away from kits because I was unhappy with them, I just like the process with AG.


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## black_labb (2/6/13)

I've read that old malt often causes a metallic taste, I'd try and use tins from a brew shop as opposed to the supermarket as it is probably fresher (possibly sitting in storage for a long time where brew shops would be likely to get regular shipments).

I was working casually at a brew shop and I did a few brews for samples based on kits. They always had a bit of grain and hops in them and would often use more malt than dextrose or maltodextrin. We never had samples with "homebrew taste" when doing things this way. We didn't always use the kit yeast but when we did it was fine (just make sure there is enough yeast, a 7g sachet is not enough despite being what is included in many kits)


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## kegs23 (2/6/13)

hey nick, if i put a thread up with the title $29 all grain set up,ill get as meny people thanking me for getting them into all grain brewing,,
mabe i could get a whole buck buy thing going and get it down even cheaper


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## Goose (2/6/13)

problem with kit beers is that you just don't know what's inside that can, or how its been stored... 

you can minimise the effect of the twang by using liquid yeasts, proper temperature control, avoiding 'no no' adjuncts like table sugar and by adding grains or additional hops or dry hopping, but if you are injecting the twang via the kit, you aint going to get rid of it and any discerning beer affectionado is going to pick it like a nose....

kits are akin to baking cakes with an instant cake mix packet, for beer its great if you want to avoid 5-6 hours of "cooking" (that's how long AG will take you per batch)..

i'd by all means start with the kit... you will soon find out I you are happy with the quality. My bet is you wont be.

Kits...


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## fletcher (3/6/13)

yeah that's the thing. If the twang is IN the kit, you can't get rid of it, only mask it. having said that, everyone's tastes are different so sadly (or not, depending on how you look at it), it's subjective and is hard to pin point to one thing. I can personally say that even after using temperature control and 'better' yeast and a controlled process though, the twang remained. it disappeared on my first biab


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## Guysmiley54 (3/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> I don't drink coffee, sets off my hiatus hernia. I would have thought that Vittorio was at least James Squire 150 lashes?


Um, no. 

I reckon that would be something like Giancarlo (by Grinders) or Bruno Rossi (Cerebos) even Toby's Estate is owned by Cerebos now too! The Lion Nathan of the coffee world.

Coffee aint beer though, and a good Barista can serve a cheaper coffee bean that will taste better than the best beans in the hands of a novice.


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## wbosher (3/6/13)

I think you can make a nice tasting kit beer if you do the basics right, and ignore the instructions with the kit. Kit beer will never be as good as AG beer IMO (although I've made some pretty horrendous AG beer), but it certainly doesn't have to be awful. In fact I have just put down a Mangrove Jacks Yorkshire Ale, my beer was running low and just didn't have the time to do an AG batch. It was actually quite cool being able to make a beer in 20 minutes  Interesting to see how it turns out, compared to my kit brews before moving to AG, now that I have a fermenting fridge and MUCH more patience.


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## Bribie G (3/6/13)

Wort from my partial on the thread I posted is smelling and tasting ok, nice Cooperish aroma coming off the fermentation (kicked in nicely overnight and pluggin away at 18 ambient)


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## jakethesnake559 (3/6/13)

jamie72 said:


> I am new to brewing and I am wondering how do I make a beer without that tell tale taste of a home brew??
> Is it the carb drops, is it because I use the tins and not AG??
> If anyone on the gold coast has the patients I'd love to learn all I can.
> 
> Cheers Jamie


Hi Jamie, you should try the Fresh Wort Kits that some of the site sponsors sell.
You pay for the freshness...but for around $50 you can produce 20L of great homebrew (no signs of kit twang).
As mentioned multiple times in your thread, temp control is also a major factor.


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## chewy (3/6/13)

Anybody had any luck with brew enhancers from coopers?


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## QldKev (3/6/13)

chewy said:


> Anybody had any luck with brew enhancers from coopers?



They are heaps better than sugar. Have a look at your LHBS you can get convertor packs, like a decent grade brew enhancer often includes hops etc.


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## wbosher (3/6/13)

I have used to Copper Tun (Brewcraft) ones, and found them pretty good. Would probably be cheaper to make them yourself with DME, dex, etc...but quick and easy to use, and as QldKev said, much better than sugar.


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## Nick JD (3/6/13)

Jamie came over to my place on Sunday and we made 14L of a 1.069 (65 IBUs) Citra and Simcoe IPA in the 19L pot.

I was talking too much and the infusion mash was a little colder than I wanted - but got higher than expected efficiency (I set it at 70% for no-sparge BIAB), so all good. It'll probably finish at or below 1.012.

*Citra and Simcoe IPA* (American IPA)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.066 (°P): 16.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (°P): 3.8
Alcohol (ABV): 6.71 %
Colour (SRM): 9.4 (EBC): 18.6
Bitterness (IBU): 64.6 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

87.72% Pale Ale Malt
6.27% Dextrose
5.01% Caramunich III
1% Acidulated Malt

1.4 g/L Citra (14% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Simcoe (13.5% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
1.1 g/L Citra (13.5% Alpha) @ 2 Days (Dry Hop)
1.1 g/L Simcoe (13.5% Alpha) @ 2 Days (Dry Hop)


55C:10, 61C:10, 64C:45. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 19°C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## Bribie G (3/6/13)

You are now promoted to elder

:kooi:


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## jamie72 (5/6/13)

HUGE thanks to Nick for inviting me into his house and sharing his knowledge.
I learnt a lot, and have already forgotten a lot, BUT, I will never brew another can
after tasting REAL home brew. But how do I stop my little finger poking out everytime
I raise a glass to drink?? lol..
How good are those pork fat chips and beer stick's ay Nick??


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## wbosher (5/6/13)

Another convert


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## jaypes (5/6/13)

2 words

Rum Chaser


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## Adr_0 (5/6/13)

black_labb said:


> I've read that old malt often causes a metallic taste, I'd try and use tins from a brew shop as opposed to the supermarket as it is probably fresher (possibly sitting in storage for a long time where brew shops would be likely to get regular shipments).
> 
> I was working casually at a brew shop and I did a few brews for samples based on kits. They always had a bit of grain and hops in them and would often use more malt than dextrose or maltodextrin. We never had samples with "homebrew taste" when doing things this way. We didn't always use the kit yeast but when we did it was fine (just make sure there is enough yeast, a 7g sachet is not enough despite being what is included in many kits)


This was a big one for me, and a handful of kits (partial mash or steeping from memory) were very good beers. If you grab a can off the shelf, always grab the one with the furtheres used-by-date or go to a LHBS that turns over a bit.

I think that new brewers tend to read so much - and there is awesome info out there if you can sift through it - and either over-complicate their beers, or forget the critical basics (not clean and sanitised, putting yeast into hot water, forgetting to carbonate a bottle, not sanitising taps when you take a sample?). You need to get your processes sorted out, whether you do K&K, partial mash/boil or full mash/boil. It would be tragic if somebody just downloaded a heap of fresh information into their brain - think of the possibilities of this beer! - only to have an infection for e.g., or be disappointed due to not getting the basics right.

The "all grain" part of it is just the production of wort. After this, it's all the same regardless of your approach, and you can still stuff it up just as badly if you haven't sorted your processes and had one or two failures to understand the impact of not having those processes sorted. At least with BIAB you can dump $30 on a pot, start with a full-ish boil extract for a few, then BIAB to hell and back.

So... does Nick really look like a cat?


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