# Additions for Rainwater.



## Superoo (19/2/15)

Hi to All,

I use rainwater for brewing (BIAB).

I believe in the water flavour / conditioning as being important, as it is the major part of a brew.

I would love to get the salts or whatever thingies balanced correctly, but I know zip about chemistry etc. (Some would say I know zip about pretty much everything).

Is there a simple guide I could use, or does somebody have suggestions, of what salts etc to add when you simply use rainwater.

I would love a non technical guide to assist with this.

I would like to go the next level and have a basic guide to water setup for different style beers. 

I can understand the importance of correct water quality for better consistency / flavours etc, but I don't think I'll ever be able to work that stuff out myself.

Any simple thoughts / advice would be appreciated...

Cheers,
Chris


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## danestead (20/2/15)

Are you able to get your rainwater tested for the important minerals in brewing (calcium, chloride, sulphate, magnesium, sodium) so that you then know what water you are starting with and can then build the water profile up from there? Im not sure who could test that stuff for you though but maybe some1 else does.


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## manticle (20/2/15)

There are simple ways to approach it but in order to simplify, you need tou understand certain principles. 

Think about mashing. Mash temp is important. Why? What happens when temp changes? What do the results mean in the finished beer? Mash pH and water chem is similar. You are adding a pinch of this salt and a dose of that one but you need to know why.

1. Mash pH
2. Calcium/magnesium levels
3. Flavour salts.

1 links to 2, 2 links to 3.


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## anthonyUK (20/2/15)

If only it was that easy Superoo :lol:
Rainwater is probably the least consistent type of water imaginable.
The basics you'll need to understand are as Manticle mentions but Mash pH is the biggie.
You'll need to measure the alkalinity of your water each time and adjust this to obtain the correct mash pH for your grain bill.
I use BruNwater (paid version) which looks daunting at first but works for me.

Do a search as there are plenty of articles on this topic which unfortunately you'll have to get a grip on.


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## fraser_john (20/2/15)

anthonyUK said:


> If only it was that easy Superoo :lol:
> Rainwater is probably the least consistent type of water imaginable.
> The basics you'll need to understand are as Manticle mentions but Mash pH is the biggie.
> You'll need to measure the alkalinity of your water each time and adjust this to obtain the correct mash pH for your grain bill.
> ...


I also use BruNwater (never knew there was a paid version? Just looked at the site and cannot see a link to one? Can you post it?). I have used three versions of various spreadsheets to calculate the additions for rainwater and they all come out +/-20% of each other when using the same salt additions, so that is probably close enough to just pick one and learn to use it.

I had my rainwater tested and came out close enough to 0 for everything (maybe 1 or 2ppm for some, but for all intents and purposes, zero).

If you have a concrete tank, your water will definitely contain some salts.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/2/15)

And dont go over board. to much gypsum and salts..... can make your visits to the loo more frequent


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## Superoo (20/2/15)

Thanks to All for your replies,

I was sort of thinking (dreading) that I would have to put in some effort learning a bit about this.

Ok, so I'll try to find somewhere in my area (Bunbury) to have my water tested, and then go from there.

Manticle, what you say makes sense, so if I get to the point that I know what my water contains, where would I find info on salts etc requirements for different beer styles ?

Thanks again to all for your replies...

cheers,
Chris


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## manticle (20/2/15)

Link here to an article I wrote a while ago: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article124.html

I also think brunwater knowledge page is reasonably clear and very comprehensive, as is the braukaiser mash pH articles (series of 3) but in all cases, you will probably need to read several times. First few times, don't try and understand every bit - just familiarise yourself with what you can, then re-read.

Also you may need to get your rainwater tested.


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## Superoo (20/2/15)

Cheers Manticle,

yes I'll have my water tested, then I have a starting point.

Will look at the the info you've posted, and see where it goes.

I'll post back at some point.

Thanks for taking the time to post the info mate...


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## Superoo (20/2/15)

While we're on this...

What $ approx are people paying to have their water tested ?

cheers...


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## fraser_john (20/2/15)

I had mine done at a pool/spa joint for nix, being of Scottish descent, $0 is always the best price, my fingers are short and my pockets deep.


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## Dan2 (20/2/15)

Have you considered getting a 2 stage filter?
I run my rain water through one then just treat it as though it was 0ppm for everything.
Not sure how much a test would cost, but as the water may change with the seasons and bird crap intake etc, today's test may not represent your water in 6 months time. So rather than regular tests at $? - a one off payment for the housing (plus annual cartridge changes) may end up cheaper.


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## Superoo (25/9/19)

Sorry late reply - but thanks again to all for your replies.
I will read the info in the links you have kindly provided and work out the best thing to do.

I'm guessing a ph meter is a good start.

I have purchased a basic GH (General Hardness) KH (Carbonate Hardness) water test kit, which basically returns 0 ppm for both, because colour changes on both with the first drop.

I would like to get going with my next brew, and learn the water testing as I go, but I am lost where to start at the moment...

So I have 2 questions before I brew a Dr Smurtos Golden Ale this weekend...

1- Are there any suggestions on what acids / salts etc to add to the water for a 25 Litre brew ?
2- I'm guessing I will need a ph meter to test the mash water ph after grains are added before I can adjust water chemistry ?

Sorry if I look like I'm not helping myself, but I really am stuck where to start with this - what tools / chemicals I need etc.

cheers,
Chris


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## bigmunchez (25/9/19)

OK, I just whipped up a rough profile for you. 
Assuming a total water volume of 40L (25L strike and 15L sparge)
Assuming your water is close enough to RO
Assuming around 5kg base malts and 400g medium crystal malt

In that case, if I were you, I'd add 4g gypsum and 4g Calcium chloride to your total water volume.
That will give you a nice safe balanced profile with around (in ppm) 
Ca 50, Mg 0, Na 0, Cl 50, SO4 50.

Your mash pH would likely come in around 5.5 - 5.6. You could add 2 mls of 96% phosphoric or 88% lactic acid to the mash and it would bring the pH down closer to 5.3-5.4, but 5.5 is probably fine.

If you're not sure what you're doing, this should be safe and simple.


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## Superoo (26/9/19)

Bigmunchez thanks heaps mate. That’s exactly the starting point I need. Now off to source the chemicals. 

Thanks again mate


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## scomet (26/9/19)

Have a look at this its pretty easy to use / understand re additions

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/pages/water-calculator/


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## Superoo (26/9/19)

Bigmunchez. FYI...
I purchased a good ph meter and additions from LHBS. Mashing right now and 10 minutes into the mash ph is 5.35. 

Thanks again for getting me going, I needed somewhere to start, I will now study more on this topic. 

Cheers,
Chris


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## bigmunchez (26/9/19)

Superoo said:


> Bigmunchez. FYI...
> I purchased a good ph meter and additions from LHBS. Mashing right now and 10 minutes into the mash ph is 5.35.
> 
> Thanks again for getting me going, I needed somewhere to start, I will now study more on this topic.
> ...


Perfect! 

If you want some simple tweaks from here until you get up and running:

For hoppy beers or pilsner type beers, wherever you want a drier, crisper finish, sub some extra gypsum in to push up the sulphate - so maybe 6g gypsum, 2g calcium chloride

For maltier styles where you want to accentuate malt character or want a fuller mouthfeel, increase the chloride, so maybe switch to 6g calcium chloride and 2g gypsum.

For darker beers where you have significant amounts of roasted grain and/or dark crystal, be aware that those grains are more acidic and will drag your pH down, in that case, I'd omit any acid additions. And you might need to consider adding a bit of alkalinity in the form of carbonates (eg sodium bicarb)

Good luck!


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## chookherder (27/9/19)

Hi guys, I’m a little late for that mash but wanted to let you know I also brew with rainwater. The info provided already looks like a great starting point.

I find an easy way to hit pH 5.2 for the mash I add 500g Acidulated Malt for a 25L batch, I prefer using the grain rather than acids. Also note your pH measurement are best taken at room temp, a hot mash measurement will be misleading (you probably know just including this. In case).

I always add salts to hit my water profiles and use BeerSmith for these calculations, it comes loaded with heaps of profiles defined by the beer you want to brew. You just use the ‘Match to Profile’ button. If you want a free calculator (spreadsheet) where you enter the desired profile numbers and it gives you the quantity of salts to add, I used this http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/ for ages before buying BeerSmith.

One other useful resource can be professional brewers include their brewing water profile in recipes on Brewersfriend.com Govs from Black Hops has posted quite a few of their recipes here https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/brewer/53820

Cheers big beers!
Ben


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## Superoo (27/9/19)

Thanks for the info. 
My mash ph was 5.17 at 45 minutes into the mash. 
Ph meter is temperature compensated [emoji106]


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## bigmunchez (27/9/19)

Superoo said:


> Thanks for the info.
> My mash ph was 5.17 at 45 minutes into the mash.
> Ph meter is temperature compensated [emoji106]



just to be clear, even with an ATC pH meter, you still need to measure at room temperature. There’s two things going on. The probe itself behaves differently at different temperatures. This is what the ATC compensates for. 
But the actual pH value also changes, as temp goes up, pH drops. The ATC doesn’t allow for this. 
When you see references to target mash pHs they should all be based on the sample being measured at 20C. So when you measure at room temp and get a pH of 5.2, the actual pH of the hot mash will be lower but you can just ignore that because we measure and discuss pH at room temperature.


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