# All Extract Black IPA Recipe



## Major Arcana (6/10/14)

Hey Fellas,

Am Hoping to put down a batch this week of a Black IPA very similar to the "Karma Citra" from Feral Brewery. Now I have thrown a few things together and would love to hear your thoughts on the style

Black Citra IPA

batch size: 19L
All Extract
OG: 1055
FG: 1014
5.7%abv before priming
IBU 53
EBC 69

1.5kg Coopers Light LME
1.0kg Light DME

200gm Dark Crystal 270 (steeped)
200gm Roasted Barley (steeped)
200gm Chocolate Malt (steeped)

Citra [email protected]
Centennial [email protected]
Citra [email protected]
Citra [email protected]

Dry Hop day 8?

Yeast 2 x S05 Rehydrated or perhaps an appropriate Wyeast?

What do you guys think?

cheers

Dan


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## black_labb (6/10/14)

I'd rethink the spec malts and add quite a bit more late hoping. I would consider adding some dextrose or similar in place of some of the dry/liquid malt. You want fair attenuation and the all extract beers can be too sweet for an IPA.

Most black IPA's don't have much roasty flavour and little astringency. This is usually achieved using some form of huskless roast malt. Either Weyermann carafa spec (barley with the husk removed before roasting) or an alternative grain that is without a significant husk (midnight wheat or choc rye for example). Some people will cold steep black grain or roast barley to get the colour and some of the flavour without extracting the astringency. Search cold steep black IPA and you will see discussions on it. I wouldn't reccomend a dark crystal in a beer like this. I'd use a light crystal and/or some wheat to keep the malt background from being too rich or sweet while still giving it good body. 

I'd be doing more late hopping in the beer unless you plan on dry hopping fairly aggressively.


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## Major Arcana (6/10/14)

black_labb said:


> I'd rethink the spec malts and add quite a bit more late hoping. I would consider adding some dextrose or similar in place of some of the dry/liquid malt. You want fair attenuation and the all extract beers can be too sweet for an IPA.
> 
> Most black IPA's don't have much roasty flavour and little astringency. This is usually achieved using some form of huskless roast malt. Either Weyermann carafa spec (barley with the husk removed before roasting) or an alternative grain that is without a significant husk (midnight wheat or choc rye for example). Some people will cold steep black grain or roast barley to get the colour and some of the flavour without extracting the astringency. Search cold steep black IPA and you will see discussions on it. I wouldn't reccomend a dark crystal in a beer like this. I'd use a light crystal and/or some wheat to keep the malt background from being too rich or sweet while still giving it good body.
> 
> I'd be doing more late hopping in the beer unless you plan on dry hopping fairly aggressively.


Thanks for the reply black_labb, the Karma Citra does have a slight roastiness to it which I quite like, so I am chasing a bit of that, the Carafa Special 11 I believe is the huskless grain which will give me the colour etc and not so much of the roastiness that obviously comes with the husks. Perhaps this is the go? I also mistyped the amount of DME required it is actually 1.3kg, maybe 1kg of DME and 300gm of Dextrose. I do understand that sweetness you get from it being all extract. If I cut out the dark crystal, could you or anyone else recommend a nice grain to compensate it?

Regarding the Hops the Karma Citra has an IBU of 48, perhaps I will play around with it a bit more and put a few extra late additions in, I am trying not to go over 55IBU's.

Cheers,


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## BrosysBrews (6/10/14)

I have no experiance with this to offer you however I was wondering why you wanted to go Light Malt Extracts rather then Amber or Dark?


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## indica86 (6/10/14)

I made a nice dark IPA sometime ago - may have to have another go - in a 23 litre batch I used 250g of caraaroma and 100g of JW choc, it was well dark and had a nice roasty hint.


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## Major Arcana (6/10/14)

BrosysBrews said:


> I have no experiance with this to offer you however I was wondering why you wanted to go Light Malt Extracts rather then Amber or Dark?


It is a good question mate, I stay away from the darker LME because the flavours and colour I want to get I want from the steeped grains etc, but i don't see why you coulnt use the darker LME's for something like this. Some of the more experienced brewers may be able to clarify.

cheers,


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## black_labb (6/10/14)

Major Arcana said:


> Thanks for the reply black_labb, the Karma Citra does have a slight roastiness to it which I quite like, so I am chasing a bit of that, the Carafa Special 11 I believe is the huskless grain which will give me the colour etc and not so much of the roastiness that obviously comes with the husks. Perhaps this is the go? I also mistyped the amount of DME required it is actually 1.3kg, maybe 1kg of DME and 300gm of Dextrose. I do understand that sweetness you get from it being all extract. If I cut out the dark crystal, could you or anyone else recommend a nice grain to compensate it?
> 
> Regarding the Hops the Karma Citra has an IBU of 48, perhaps I will play around with it a bit more and put a few extra late additions in, I am trying not to go over 55IBU's.
> 
> Cheers,


You still some roastiness and the coffee flavours. What you don't get is the really burnt notes and the acrid bitterness that comes with it. The acrid bitterness adds to the bitterness from the hops.

I haven't had the Karma Citra for a while but I remember it being very smooth suggesting they took steps to avoid the acrid bitterness.

Regarding the bitterness I'd reduce the 20g of high alpha bittering and add more 5 minute and flamout hopping.


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## Major Arcana (6/10/14)

black_labb said:


> You still some roastiness and the coffee flavours. What you don't get is the really burnt notes and the acrid bitterness that comes with it. The acrid bitterness adds to the bitterness from the hops.
> 
> I haven't had the Karma Citra for a while but I remember it being very smooth suggesting they took steps to avoid the acrid bitterness.
> 
> Regarding the bitterness I'd reduce the 20g of high alpha bittering and add more 5 minute and flamout hopping.


Glad you mentioned reducing the high alpha bittering because that was just what I was thinking of doing, have put this together now what do you think of the hop schedule and grain etc? Also thinking of perhaps not dry hopping or if I did, it would be bugger all.


Black Citra IPA

batch size: 19L
All Extract
OG: 1055
FG: 1014
6.0%abv before priming
IBU 52.5
EBC 85.7

1.5kg Coopers Light LME
1.0kg Light DME
300gm Dextrose

200gm Carafa 2 special (de husked) (steeped)
200gm Roasted Barley (cold steeped)
200gm Chocolate Malt (steeped)

Citra 1[email protected]
Centennial 20[email protected]
Citra 20[email protected]
Centennial [email protected]
Citra [email protected]
Citra [email protected]


Yeast 2 x S05 Rehydrated or perhaps an appropriate Wyeast?


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## indica86 (6/10/14)

600gm of black/ dark/ roasted malts is a lot. Not having tried the original perhaps I have limited idea.
Looking through the recipe database at Porters, that seems to be the go in a 40 litre batch.
Have you brewed with that amount of roasted malts before?


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## Major Arcana (6/10/14)

indica86 said:


> 600gm of black/ dark/ roasted malts is a lot. Not having tried the original perhaps I have limited idea.
> Looking through the recipe database at Porters, that seems to be the go in a 40 litre batch.
> Have you brewed with that amount of roasted malts before?


No I havn't indica86, and to tell you the truth the amount had me a little worried aswell. An EBC of 85.7 did seem quite high to me, do you think cut them down to 150 each? I have started this recipe from Scratch so any tips or info on it is much appreciated, I am also assuming that the 3 specialty grains can all be steeped aswell?

cheers,


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## indica86 (6/10/14)

I would use 250g of a dark crystal and 100g of a roasted something.
I don't know everything or much really, but that will be dark and roasty enough.


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## Major Arcana (6/10/14)

indica86 said:


> I would use 250g of a dark crystal and 100g of a roasted something.
> I don't know everything or much really, but that will be dark and roasty enough.


Hmmm I was thinking the dark crystal may make it too sweet though???


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## indica86 (6/10/14)

Just stating what has worked for me, not saying you should, but what I would.


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## Major Arcana (7/10/14)

Thanks indica86, Yep definitely am thinking of cutting it down to 150gm each im hoping this will be okay,

cheers,


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## black_labb (7/10/14)

Is there any reason why you want to use all 3 of carafa spec II, choc and cold steeped roast barley? In my experience trying to create a complex malt base by adding lots of small amounts of different malts tends to end up with very undefined flavours. I would use only the carafa spec III or Carafa spec III and the chocolate if you want to get some more chocolate flavours in there. You don't need too much to get a black colour. 250g of carafa spec II and choc will get you plenty dark and probably roastier than Karma Citra.

I would have a look in this thread. The recipe in there seems closer to the Karma Citra than yours IMO. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/52500-black-ipa-recipe-help-needed-feral-karma-citra/


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## Alex.Tas (7/10/14)

i'll add another opinion - although its similar to black Labb's. just go with the one spec grain. I've used carafa spec 1 before (lighter than the 2 and 3) and it gives a good browny black colour, its nice and malty and not really too sweet. to get the colour you are after maybe go with 150g of the two or three. you will still get a slight roasty flavour - dont worry.

hop wise, I haven't had karma citra before, so take this how you will. 
Drop the 60 min addition and get the target IBUs from below 20 minutes.
Centennial is pretty powerful and i dont reckon it will be washed out if you upped your 15min addition of citra to account for the removed 60 min addition.

The last IPA i made, the earliest addition i made was 20 min i think. Loved it. Felt weird standing around a boiling pot of wort for an hour though and not adding any hops.


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## Major Arcana (7/10/14)

black_labb said:


> Is there any reason why you want to use all 3 of carafa spec II, choc and cold steeped roast barley? In my experience trying to create a complex malt base by adding lots of small amounts of different malts tends to end up with very undefined flavours. I would use only the carafa spec III or Carafa spec III and the chocolate if you want to get some more chocolate flavours in there. You don't need too much to get a black colour. 250g of carafa spec II and choc will get you plenty dark and probably roastier than Karma Citra.
> 
> I would have a look in this thread. The recipe in there seems closer to the Karma Citra than yours IMO. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/52500-black-ipa-recipe-help-needed-feral-karma-citra/


G'day black_labb,

To be honest with you mate, I am chasing that colour, the roast flavour, and a hint of chocolate followed obviously by the Citra, to me this is what I could taste when indulging in this fine beverage, I have not had a lot of experience with these darker malts, so I am still learning on what to use etc. I had a read through the attached topic you put up, and did notice they used the carafe special and also hints of the chocolate malt. I do want to keep the tastes stable etc so like you mentioned maybe taking out the roast barley may help me achieve this.
As for right now if I stick with the carafe special II and the chocolate malt do you think 150gm of each would be okay?

cheers for the help mate,

Dan


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## black_labb (7/10/14)

I would aim for 25 -30 SRM and use as little roast malt as possible. You do get chocolate from the carafa spec II and you would be just as well to use only that but it is up to you.


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## Major Arcana (7/10/14)

Alex.Tas said:


> i'll add another opinion - although its similar to black Labb's. just go with the one spec grain. I've used carafa spec 1 before (lighter than the 2 and 3) and it gives a good browny black colour, its nice and malty and not really too sweet. to get the colour you are after maybe go with 150g of the two or three. you will still get a slight roasty flavour - dont worry.
> 
> hop wise, I haven't had karma citra before, so take this how you will.
> Drop the 60 min addition and get the target IBUs from below 20 minutes.
> ...





Alex.Tas said:


> i'll add another opinion - although its similar to black Labb's. just go with the one spec grain. I've used carafa spec 1 before (lighter than the 2 and 3) and it gives a good browny black colour, its nice and malty and not really too sweet. to get the colour you are after maybe go with 150g of the two or three. you will still get a slight roasty flavour - dont worry.
> 
> hop wise, I haven't had karma citra before, so take this how you will.
> Drop the 60 min addition and get the target IBUs from below 20 minutes.
> ...


Hi Alex

haha mate I would be feeling rather weirded out also stand around a boiling pot for an hour with no Hops in it. I will re look at the Hop Schedule.


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