# Aroma Hop-steep/ Mash Hop



## Timmsy (4/11/08)

Ive have done a search and can not find anything. Tho im pretty impatient so i thought id chuck it out there

Im pretty new to AG and i wanting to know how i go about Aroma Hop-Steep/ Mash Hop process? I thought i just chuck hops in certain times while im boiling??


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## peas_and_corn (4/11/08)

Adding hops at the beginning of the boil generally just adds bitterness to the beer as the aroma and flavour oils get boiled off. As you add them later and later into the boil, they become flavour and then aroma additions.


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## Timmsy (4/11/08)

I understand that mate but i was going to give Ross's Summer Ale a whirl and seen these additions? The MAsh Hop at 90mins only adds 3ibu? And the aroma hop- steep is none?? just trying to figuring this out

4.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 91.84 % 
0.40 kg Wheat, Torrified (Bairds) (3.9 EBC) Grain 8.16 % 
*15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.6 IBU *
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (80 min) Hops 18.0 IBU 
*25.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - *
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 4.5 IBU


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## peas_and_corn (4/11/08)

The first is mash hop, essentially you put the hops in with your grain and mash them together- I would imagine that less bitterness would be extracted using this method due to the lower temp (the rigorous boil extracting bitterness most effectively). I believe that the recipe DB is merely confused with the second bolded part- it's not a bug-free piece of software- though promash guesses it will be around 7IBUs added.


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## newguy (4/11/08)

Mash hopping is kind of an enigma. According to "brewing common sense", it shouldn't add anything at all but it does in fact add a significant hop flavour and aroma. When I mash hop, I count that addition as being the same as a 9 minute boil addition just for calculation's sake, so I can get an idea of its bitterness contribution. I imagine Ross did something similar with the recipe.

Aroma additions, on the other hand, contribute no bitterness. However, that's not to say that the time spent steeping at near boiling temps doesn't contribute bitterness - it does. Just less bitterness than time spent under a full rolling boil.


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## buttersd70 (4/11/08)

The mash hop has such a small IBU because the hop itself is not boiled, it is actually put in the mash tun and left behind when the wort is run out. I'm not exactly sure what is going on with the 20min steep, other than a _presumption_...I've got a feeling (and confirm this with Ross) that this is actually a steep for dry hopping purposes, and the recipe program has put it up in the ingredient listing because it tries to put things in time order, and it's not recognising that it doesn't form part of the boil. As I said, I could well be wrong...shoot Ross a PM and ask him to clarify in the thread.

You might want to ask him about the mash hopping...I have a feeling he might have posted on here at some point saying that he wasn't going to bother with it anymore, but that might have been referring to a different recipe.


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## Rudy (4/11/08)

With mash hopping or first wort hopping the aroma compounds are supposed to dissolve into the hot wort, and not be driven off immediately as when added to a rolling boil. That is the theory anyway. Also the bittering character is meant to be smoother, however I haven't tried a first wort and 60 minute hopped beer side by side.


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## Timmsy (4/11/08)

Thanks guys as i said im new at AG so its alot learning still.


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## peas_and_corn (4/11/08)

Keep the questions coming, the step to AG is always a good one in the end


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## Timmsy (4/11/08)

Oh yeah, i have made a few now and they are fantastic! Juat be warned questions will be coming


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## drsmurto (5/11/08)

Aroma hop steep is part of the beersmith program.

I do it all the time. I use it exactly the same as saying you add it at flameout. Prob easier to just say its a 0 min addition but i do like to over complicate things.

The time i set it for is the time from when i turn the flame off till the time i start the chilling process.


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## Timmsy (6/11/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Aroma hop steep is part of the beersmith program.
> 
> I do it all the time. I use it exactly the same as saying you add it at flameout. Prob easier to just say its a 0 min addition but i do like to over complicate things.
> 
> The time i set it for is the time from when i turn the flame off till the time i start the chilling process.



Ahh i see now. Thanks heaps!


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## captaincleanoff (1/4/09)

still not quite sure about aroma hop steep

so you add them at flame out... What happens if the recipe says something like this?:

10.00 gm NZ Saaz B [6.70 %] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 42.00 gm Saaz [2.20 %] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
What does the 20 mins part mean? I add at flameout and leave for 20 mins?


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## samhighley (1/4/09)

captaincleanoff said:


> What does the 20 mins part mean? I add at flameout and leave for 20 mins?



Bingo.


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## Ross (1/4/09)

I add aroma Hop-steep additions 10 minutes after flame out if not chilling, or chill to 90c & then add. The 20 minute steep means just that - Steep for 20 mins without any further active chilling, then procede to chill or pour into your "no chill" cube.
Hope above makes sense.

With regards to the earlier questions on mash hopping - My experiments have proved (to me anyway) that they are a TOTAL waste of hops, adding no aroma & virtually no flavour or bitterness - equivalent to a 5 min addition from memory, without any of the aroma/flavour benefits.

Cheers Ross


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## newguy (1/4/09)

Ross said:


> With regards to the earlier questions on mash hopping - My experiments have proved (to me anyway) that they are a TOTAL waste of hops, adding no aroma & virtually no flavour or bitterness - equivalent to a 5 min addition from memory, without any of the aroma/flavour benefits.



I love mash hopping. The flavour and aroma is definitely in the finished beer and in my opinion is much more stable. I've managed to convert 3 (and counting) friends to mash hopping too so I know it's not just me.


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## captaincleanoff (1/4/09)

thanks Ross. I'm doing your German Pils tonight, though I dont have access to Flaked Rice. 


Should i just use all Pilsner, and the small amount of wheat?


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## Ross (1/4/09)

captaincleanoff said:


> thanks Ross. I'm doing your German Pils tonight, though I dont have access to Flaked Rice.
> 
> 
> Should i just use all Pilsner, and the small amount of wheat?




just pre boil a little rice & chuck in the mash - easy as.

Cheers Ross


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## captaincleanoff (1/4/09)

im doing a big batch -

13.5kg Pils
2.00kg rice
0.90kg wheat

so you reckon just add 2kg of normal pre-boiled rice?


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## Ross (1/4/09)

newguy said:


> I love mash hopping. The flavour and aroma is definitely in the finished beer and in my opinion is much more stable. I've managed to convert 3 (and counting) friends to mash hopping too so I know it's not just me.




Each to their own....but I'm guessing these aren't 100% mash hopped beers you're making?

I did a low alcohol Amber beer with 100% mash hops, no other additions - All highly fragrent American hops as below:
There wasn't any hop aroma at all & the flavour was predominantly malt with virtually no hop character. Beer was tried by many brewers & all agreed 100%.
So sorry, but it'll take a lot of convincing to get me using mash hops again.

Mashop Amber 
American Amber Ale 
Type: All Grain
Date: 4/08/2006 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Ross 
Boil Size: 33.80 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.10 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 53.76 % 
0.80 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 20.48 % 
0.30 kg Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (118.2 EBC) Grain 7.68 % 
0.30 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (29.6 EBC) Grain 7.68 % 
0.15 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.92 % 
0.13 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain 3.33 % 
0.12 kg Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) Grain 3.14 % 
30.00 gm Simcoe [12.00 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 9.2 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 4.6 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 4.3 IBU 
10.00 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.3 IBU 
10.00 gm Centennial [10.00 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 2.6 IBU 
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Safale #056) Yeast-Ale 

Measured Original Gravity: 1.039 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.25 % 
Bitterness: 24.0 IBU 
Est Color: 33.6 EBC


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## newguy (1/4/09)

Ross said:


> Each to their own....but I'm guessing these aren't 100% mash hopped beers you're making?



I still add a 90 minute bittering addition. For IBU calculation purposes, I count the mash hops as equivalent to a 9 minute boil addition. My mash hopped beers have a nice aroma that doesn't fade and a really gentle hop flavour.

There's one member of my club that said that mash hopping was a stupid idea at one of our meetings. The next meeting one of the guys who I turned on to mash hopping brought one of his mash hopped beers (he added a 90 min bittering addition too) for this guy to taste. The first thing he commented on was the fresh hop aroma. When he tasted it he said he really liked the fresh hop flavour too, and that's when we told him that he was tasting a mash hopped beer. He was very surprised. He's subsequently tried it himself and while he likes the result, he complained about the amount of hops it uses, and I admit it does take a fair amount. However, I've never been able to get the same lasting aroma and gentle flavour from any late hop addition I've ever tried.


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## Maple (29/7/09)

newguy said:


> I still add a 90 minute bittering addition. For IBU calculation purposes, I count the mash hops as equivalent to a 9 minute boil addition. My mash hopped beers have a nice aroma that doesn't fade and a really gentle hop flavour.


With Mash hopping, promash (using Rager) is showing the equivalent IBUs to that hop assed at a 35minute addition in a recipe I am working on now. Given that I have not yet done a mash hop, I can only wonder what gives? Is it differnet using Tinseth or Morey? or is it negligible? 

I should note that it will likely not make a big difference as the total IBU calc is over 200 anyway. Just wondering


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## newguy (29/7/09)

Maple said:


> With Mash hopping, promash (using Rager) is showing the equivalent IBUs to that hop assed at a 35minute addition in a recipe I am working on now. Given that I have not yet done a mash hop, I can only wonder what gives? Is it differnet using Tinseth or Morey? or is it negligible?
> 
> I should note that it will likely not make a big difference as the total IBU calc is over 200 anyway. Just wondering



Dunno what their assumptions were when promash was written. For my palate, mash hopping is roughly equivalent to a 9 min boil addition. The difference may be because they assumed that some hop particles would make it to the kettle from the mash tun. None make it in my system. You're right though that at 200+ IBU the difference will be small.


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