# My First Ag Attempt



## browndog (25/12/05)

Merry Christmas fellow brewers,
I sincerely hope eveyone had a great day with heaps of food and drink and the company of friends and family. I have to say that I cooked xmas dinner for the first time and absolutely jagged it. The turkey was moist, the stuffing great and all the veggies turned out as they should. My four month old had my wife and I in stitches when he made an abrupt outburst and demanded soild food rather than his usual diet of formula. He just about ripped the spoon out of my wifes hand as she fed him some mashed up veggies. We never realised he could have such an appetite. Anyways, I digress.
Tomorrow, Browndog's Brewery is having it's maiden launch and I'll be flying by the seat of my pants. I found a recipe for a Sierra Navada Celebration Ale, it looked fairly simple so I thought I'd have a crack at it it consists of 

5.2kg 2-row pale malt
0.45kg crystal malt
0.23kg carapils
I don't know whether I stuffed up or the fellow taking my order but I didn't end up with the carapils. I hope this won't affect the final outcome too much

I've been trying to get my head around Brewsmith, it seems like a great program but I'll need quite a bit more experience to know what I'm doing with it. I'm hoping that my good luck with the christmas dinner will be carrying on with my first AG brew.


Merry Christmas

Browndog


----------



## wee stu (25/12/05)

Best of luck with the first all grain, BD. 

Recipe sounds a lot like the ones out of the Beer Captured book ans Zymurgy that I have, so whilst it may or may not clone SN Celebration, it should produce a decent drinkable beer  .

What hops are you using? With such a simple malt bill, the hops are going to impart a lot of the character to the beer. Presumably a hefty dose of american hops are involved.

The carapils will add a bit of body and head to the beer. It's absence will not be critical.

Enjoy the day, keep it fairly simple and tell us how it all works out.

Awrabest, stu


----------



## browndog (25/12/05)

Hi Stu,
the hops I'm using is
28g cascade 60min
48g cascade 30min
19g cascade dry hop
19g williamette dry hop 

white labs California Ale WLP001


how does that sound ?

cheers

browndog


----------



## Ross (25/12/05)

browndog said:


> I don't know whether I stuffed up or the fellow taking my order but I didn't end up with the carapils. I hope this won't affect the final outcome too much
> 
> Browndog
> [post="99479"][/post]​



Browndog,

the carapils is there to give you better head retention, little else - it'll be fine..

Best of luck mate - look forward to hearing how it goes...


----------



## Jye (25/12/05)

> 28g cascade 60min
> 48g cascade 30min
> 19g cascade dry hop
> 19g williamette dry hop



Hey browndog

I dont know where you got the hopping schedule but I think I heard a guest on the brewing network say that cascade and williamette dry hopped together in a ratio of 1:3 is meant to be very nice :beerbang: I will be using 60g of cascade and 20 g of williamette in the last 2min of my next APA :super: 

I would possible bring the 30min addition up to 20min, other than that enjoy the day :beer: 

Jye


----------



## browndog (25/12/05)

Hi Jye,
The hopping schedule uses chinook for bittering and then cascade. I dont have any chinook so I thought I'd chuck some williamette in for dry hopping to see what happens. I'll take your advice on changing the 30min to 20 min and might adjust the levels of the dry hops to suit the ratio you mentioned.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## altstart (26/12/05)

:beer: 
Best wishes Brown dog I hope all goes well. If you decide to sell your mash tun let me know <tongue in cheek> . Seriously I hope you have a great brewday.
Cheers Altstart :chug:


----------



## Aaron (26/12/05)

Hope the brew is progressing well mate. Do yourself a favour and have a good read of "How to Brew" or pick up a hard copy if you haven't already.


----------



## Kai (26/12/05)

Good luck with the brew, browndog. I guess it's too late now, but if you find yourself without carapils in future you can always up the mash temp a little if possible.


----------



## ruserious (26/12/05)

gday bd, 

new bloke here, my first AG is a goal for '06, so will be interested to see how it went for you.

cheers


----------



## browndog (26/12/05)

Well what a day I've had...... Ross made it look so easy. It makes me think of the story of David and Goliath, you know, the one where David goes to load his sling and finds he's all out of stones.
Surprisingly the day started out well exept for the stinking hot weather. Brewsmith said I'd need 34.03Lwater, mash in 15.65L at 79.2C and hold at 67.8C for 60min. The temp in the tun held at 68C for the whole 60min So alls good so far.
10am and time to sparge. Brewsmith told me I'd have to do two rounds of sparging, I assume this is due to the fact that my tun only holds 30L. After the hour it only took me another 10 mins to finish the sparging so I think I may have done it a little too quickly. The estimated SG pre-boil was 1.050 and I ended up with 1.043. However the estimated pre-boil volume turned out spot on at 27.02L.
Things started to go a little down hill from here.
Turns out my two ring burner is not up to the task, I only got a weak boil going after 70mins. Anyhow, it was boiling but only just, So I carried on regardless of the 33C temp and stifling humidity sweating like a pig. Did all my hop additions (and used Jye'ssuggestion of williamette/cascade at 3-1 70min) correctly then ran into more trouble when it came to chilling the wort.
First off trimming a garden hose for the chiller I managed to put a reasonable cut in my finger, swearing profusely and bleeding everywhere it was back into the house to get patched up. I discovered that is is not a good idea to put your hose connectors directly onto the chiller as if they leak or pop off, you will get tap water in your wort. I only managed to get the wort down to 29C with tapwater so I switched over to my "you-beaut" prechiller (in the process hooking the hoses up incorrectly and getting a small burst of tapwater in the wort), another copper coil in a bucket of ice, however after zipping up the road to get a bag of ice, I discovered one bag was not enough and had to go back for another. Even with two bags of ice I could still only get the temp down to 26C.
Final batch volume was supposed to be 21L but I ended up with 17.5 and had to top it up with chilled water from the fridge, at least I got the temp down to 22C. The estimated SG was 1.065 and I ended up with 1.052. I then pitched with WLP001 and stuck the fermenter in an insulated cupboard with a 3L iceblock, about this stage I was loosing interest at a great rate. 

Oh yes, and I forgot to add the irish moss too!

So Gentlemen, I give you Browndog's Blood, Sweat and Tears APA

I won't be drinking this stuff from a pint glass let me tell you, I'll be using a 7oz and savouring every drop, I don't care how bad it is hehe.


cheers

Browndog


----------



## GMK (26/12/05)

Welcome to the All Grain Obsession - try dpoing your first all grain in front of 15 people on Anzac day 2004...

Lots of slip ups and lots of..hmmmm Help


----------



## Vlad the Pale Aler (26/12/05)

Its all a learning curve.
You will still end up with a good drinkable beer, what are you brewing next?


----------



## browndog (26/12/05)

I'm going to make a better Blood sweat and tears APA, when I can do that, I'll move on to something else, I'd like to do an oatmeal stout or maybe an english bitter.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## johnno (26/12/05)

Good one browndog.
It will only get easier with every brew.

johnno


----------



## TidalPete (26/12/05)

ruserious said:


> gday bd,
> 
> new bloke here, my first AG is a goal for '06, so will be interested to see how it went for you.
> 
> ...



Hello! A *Real *Australian here on the forum at last. No Yank-inspired "guys" from this fella. :super: 
All the best with your first AG ruserious. I'm not anywhere in front in experience with only four AG's & the brewery closed until I tee up my temperature control (amongst other things).
Browndog,
I can sympathize with your trials & errors. Been there, done that, & have a long way to go before turning out the "Perfect Brew". Good luck with your endeavours & a Happy New year to you both.  

:beer:

Spelling edit completed.


----------



## tangent (27/12/05)

my advice would be: patience

it takes a while to bring 25+ litres of liquid to the boil
It takes a while to cool it down as well
welcome to thermal inertia, it's as slow as Lost with the commercial breaks.
If you'd chilled out and had a beer your finger would be fine, well, maybe not.

stick with it blokey matey cobber!


----------



## wee stu (27/12/05)

well done browndog, and welcome to the fraternity of all grainers.

It gets easier with time, and the results are amost always worth the trials and tribulations.

I recently came of age (my 21st all grain brew) and I am still far from stuff up free.

awrabest, stu


----------



## TidalPete (27/12/05)

tangent said:


> stick with it blokey matey cobber!
> [post="99561"][/post]​



Tangent,

You are to be recommended. :beerbang: We are forever Aussies & can do without the yankspell in our posts. Good luck to you in your brewing.  

:beer:


----------



## tangent (27/12/05)

onya Tidal
i hate baseball caps too!


----------



## jimmyjack (27/12/05)

Whats with all the yank bashing? Not all of us are so bad. We have started the Australian take over. If we cant take it by force we start from within and work our way out. It all starts with Mcdonalds and Nike then progresses with Costco and Mega hardware. Pretty soon we will have guns shops on every corner!!! :excl: 

Bd, well done on your first attempt. You are a brave man brewing in that kind of temp and humidity we had yesterday. I am puttin one down this avro and hope to god its not as hot as yesterday. That beer will be a dandy if you keep the ferm temps stable and low. 


Cheers,

JJ


----------



## Jye (27/12/05)

Nice one browndog :beer: 

I bet you have a list of things to do... improvements... new gadgets... future recipes... :lol:


----------



## browndog (27/12/05)

That's right Jye, looking at the notes on the back of my brew sheet, I can see that I have to
Make a holder for the temp guage.
Fit 90deg elbows to the ball valves so the plastic tubes don't collapse.
Hot dip gal the metal kettle base.
Sort the fittings for the wort chiller out.
Buy a high pressure burner and reg.

I'd like to hear know a bit about losses though the boil. I lost 10L in the 90min boil, is this about right ? 

JJ, unfortunately I have about 20 Sq M of paving to do now before new years so I might look back on the brew day as a walk in the park hehe.

cheers

Browndog

edit spelling


----------



## Jye (27/12/05)

> I'd like to hear know a bit about losses though the boil. I lost 10L in the 90min boil, is this about right ?



Sounds like you got a pretty good boil even thou it took ages to get going. I loose about 9L in a 90min boil with my Gamco burner.


----------



## GMK (27/12/05)

browndog said:


> That's right Jye, looking at the notes on the back of my brew sheet, I can see that I have to
> Make a holder for the temp guage.
> Fit 90deg elbows to the ball valves so the plastic tubes don't collapse.
> Hot dip gal the metal kettle base.
> ...



Why fit 90degree elbows.
Get some male Nylex snap lock garden hose fittings - come in 1/2" or 3/4" bsp.
Put these into the ball valves and then put females on the hose - make up different lengths - then everything will snap together/apart for easy cleaning etc.

Hope this helps


----------



## mje1980 (27/12/05)

Congrats mate!!. You will get better, and faster too. My first 10 all grains had various probs, but, with a lot of question asking, i started making good beer. Now, after about 30 or 40 ag's, im starting to make very good beer consistently. Usually, if i do something wrong, its just a bit malty, or bitter, and still highly drinkable!. Oh, and you're ot alone when you say you were very uninterested at the end of a brew day, im down to about a 4 and a half hour brewday, but sometimes, i just cant wait to finish, even if nothing goes wrong. 

Cheers and stick to it!


----------



## ruserious (27/12/05)

TidalPete said:


> ruserious said:
> 
> 
> > gday bd,
> ...



TP,

strewth, stone the flamin' crows digger, thats a dinky di welcome. Bonza. :beer: 

browndog,
your'e an inspiration to us uninitiated AGers.

already picked up a couple of tips, bloody shame someone has to do it tough for another to learn.

:beer: 
ruserious


----------



## Ross (27/12/05)

Well done Browndog - Good to see join the fold - Won't be long before you're giving demo's yourself & making it look easy  ...
Hope I get a taste of your first brew & fingers crossed it's a ripper...

Truth is - it is easy... just doesn't seem that way at the beginning...

cheers... Ross


----------



## Weizguy (27/12/05)

jimmyjack said:


> Whats with all the yank bashing? Not all of us are so bad. We have started the Australian take over. If we cant take it by force we start from within and work our way out. It all starts with Mcdonalds and Nike then progresses with Costco and Mega hardware. Pretty soon we will have guns shops on every corner!!!
> 
> Bd, well done on your first attempt. You are a brave man brewing in that kind of temp and humidity we had yesterday. I am puttin one down this avro and hope to god its not as hot as yesterday. That beer will be a dandy if you keep the ferm temps stable and low.
> 
> ...


G'day.

Tell ya what...didn't think I was a yank-basher 'til I read this post.

Not U JJ, just the fact that we are being taken by stealth.

Lucky that brewing transcends all boundaries, and I'm grateful that the U.S. gave us the "hop revolution". :beer: 

** :beerbang: Back to the topic, and I say to Browndog, " It takes a big leap of faith to do an ag beer". Congrats and best of luck. I'll toast U with my Hoegaarden clone, which is my...(slight delay while consulting brewlog) tenth ag beer. Have made 2 since - the soured Summer ale with London III yeast, and a Weizen with Bavarian wheat blend

:blink: duck from moderators wrath, in case I'm taken seriously...indeed!

Sethule looney


----------



## browndog (28/12/05)

Well thanks for all the encouragement Fellas, this forum has to have the friendliest bunch of Blokes I have ever encountered on the net and can back this up having met quite a few in person.
GMK, thanks for the tip I'll definitely look into the snap locks, I idn't know they made male fittings!

Mje, as Big Kev used to say "I'm excited"

Ruserious, seems some of the members are running with this and are posting threads on the basics of AG, great to see.

Ross, the wort is bubbling away nicely at around 20C and if it turns out OK we will definitely share a glass. I'll be heading to the local haberdashery to get some of those hop bags of yours made up for the next brew.

Weizguy, cheers Mate!


salute

Browndog


----------



## TidalPete (29/12/05)

Weizguy said:


> Tell ya what...didn't think I was a yank-basher 'til I read this post.
> 
> Not U JJ, just the fact that we are being taken by stealth.
> 
> ...



I second the above. Please don't take my earlier post the wrong way. For all their faults I love the yanks.




but I love my "Cultcha" more. :beerbang: If it wasn't for the US of A we would all be eating raw fish & drinking saki (not necessarily in that order) long ago. For better or for worse, we are forever in their debt. Three cheers for the Yanks. :super: 
Sorry if my remarks have been off-topic.

Browndog,
I lose 7 litres per 90 minute boil using my NASA. Don't know if that is the norm for NASA users but I get to the boil in around 8 minutes per 36 litre volume so an extra litre or so to boil off is not a big deal to me. Do you put the lid back on when the boil starts? This saves a litre or two over 90 minutes. 
GMK's suggestion re the snaplock fittings is the way to go although I think that brass fittings are tops (plastic sucks). This also goes for the IC fittings (worm drive hose clamps are good but silver soldering is best). 
To save all those $$$ on ice, freeze up a few icecream containers of water (They'll last longer than the bought stuff). Use an old esky instead of a bucket.
If you plan toupgrade to a NASA, galvanising your present base seems an unnecessary expense as you will get a new base along with your new burner. Hope my limited knowledge helps here? 


:beer:


----------



## Ross (30/12/05)

TidalPete said:


> Do you put the lid back on when the boil starts? This saves a litre or two over 90 minutes.
> 
> [post="99907"][/post]​



hope not Pete - you should always boil with the lid off...

cheers Ross


----------



## ruserious (30/12/05)

Ross said:


> TidalPete said:
> 
> 
> > Do you put the lid back on when the boil starts? This saves a litre or two over 90 minutes.
> ...



gday ross,
this might be a silly Q? Why the lid off ?

:beer: 
ruserious


----------



## Ross (30/12/05)

ruserious said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > TidalPete said:
> ...



To quote the homebrewers bible "How to brew"

Once you achieve a boil, only partially cover the pot, if at all. Why? Because in wort there are sulfur compounds that evolve and boil off. If they aren't removed during the boil, the can form dimethyl sulfide which contributes a cooked cabbage or corn-like flavor to the beer. If the cover is left on the pot, or left on such that the condensate from the lid can drip back in, then these flavors will have a much greater chance of showing up in the finished beer.

hope that helps, Ruserious


----------



## Rex (30/12/05)

Jye said:


> > I'd like to hear know a bit about losses though the boil. I lost 10L in the 90min boil, is this about right ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How big is your batch? That sounds a bit high? I've lost too much in the boil before and had to top up with tap water due to high gravity before.

What % of the pre boil volume to people usually lose to evaporation? Not to mention crap lost in the bottom of the kettle?

Cheers


----------



## ruserious (30/12/05)

Ross said:


> ruserious said:
> 
> 
> > Ross said:
> ...



ross
thanks for that, i suppose that includes when i have the wort sitting in the laundry tub of ice.

:beer: 
ruserious


----------



## Ross (30/12/05)

ruserious said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > ruserious said:
> ...



No, just during the boil - good to keep it covered once the boil's finished; keeps any nasties out  

cheers Ross


----------



## Jazman (30/12/05)

ross u can leave the lid but dont leave it on all the way leave to be about 3/4 on and leave a gap so the crap can boil so u dont get dms ect so in my new kettle with the lid off 23 % evap or with it 3/4 on 15% evap a big diff when working my system out or if i want to do a double batch and when i am tight for space so i dont have to do a concentrated boil and top up volume


----------



## TidalPete (30/12/05)

Ross said:


> ruserious said:
> 
> 
> > Ross said:
> ...



I stand corrected Ross.  I've been partially covering my kettle somewhere along the lines of Jazman's post. I'll be leaving the lid off during the boil in future.

:beer:


----------



## dicko (30/12/05)

Hi Blokes and Sheilas,  
I have always left the lid off during the boil mainly because that was what I was advised to do by a certaain brew guru in Adelaide "thanks Jayse"
But I found after changing kettles the amount of evaporation during a boil is related to the diameter of the kettle.
I went from a converted keg to a 90 litre "chiller special" (aluminium) and found that my losses over 60 mins went from 9 litres to 13 litres. I also noted that my beers became clearer when I began using the bigger kettle.
Now I know that this is a complete thread hi jack from brown dogs first AG but I believe each ones observations are interesting and come sometimes help with a problem.
Cheers


----------



## Ross (30/12/05)

TidalPete said:


> I stand corrected Ross.  I've been partially covering my kettle somewhere along the lines of Jazman's post. I'll be leaving the lid off during the boil in future.
> 
> :beer:
> [post="99956"][/post]​



Pete, As Jazman & i said - partial covering is fine... just don't cover completely - personally i prefer to leave completely open as I boil very near the top & I find covering makes controlling it a bit harder - also using more sparge water & boiling off, improves effiency...

cheers Ross


----------



## Guest Lurker (30/12/05)

As Ross notes, Lid off = evaporate more = sparge more for same volume = higher efficiency, so I cant see the point of lid half on unless you are kettle constrained and cant make use of the extra volume


----------



## tangent (30/12/05)

> also using more sparge water & boiling off


i've been doing this recently because my spent grist was still tasting too sweet
it was fermenting in the garden and the vinegar flys were going bezerk - insect oktoberfest

ive been reading in farmhouse ales about getting a copper colour from extended boiling, so i figured a good boil's better than a half-covered simmer and deal with the losses via the extra sparge


----------



## browndog (2/1/06)

Dicko, no worries about a thread hijack here, it's all about boiling and evaporation that I was asking about and all very good info at that. 
I started with 27L and ended up with 17.5L instead of a pale ale it looks more like a brown ale, seems to taste OK though.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Darren (2/1/06)

Ross said:


> TidalPete said:
> 
> 
> > Do you put the lid back on when the boil starts? This saves a litre or two over 90 minutes.
> ...




Ross is correct,
You should boil with the lid off. Next time you are brewing and the beer is coming to boil put your head in the steam and have a good sniff. You should easily smell DMS (cooked corn). You don't want that in your beer. If you are worried by loss of beer top up with some water 10 minutes from the end of the boil. Replace lid at 10 mins from end of boil to sanitise it and also helps to keep the beer covered whilst you are cooling.
cheers
Darren


----------



## browndog (15/1/06)

Thought I'd better make a report on the final product  
I;ve just force carbonated and poured a glass of my APA and I must say that as far as taste goes I'm quite surprised, it is comparable to APAs I've tried of other Brewers. However, the colour is all wrong, it looks more like a brown ale than a pale ale. Could the darkness have come from a weak boil, where the beer on the bottom of the kettle burned ? 
I have not tried anothe brew yet as the hot weather we have been experiencing has been putting me off, I reckon I'll wait till I can get a fermentation fridge before I try another brew. 


cheers

Browndog


----------



## tangent (15/1/06)

put red light globes in all your lights and then have a look  
(i saw a restaurant in Singapore that was lit only by red light so you couldn't really see what you're eating other than shape so all your perceptions were from taste and smell) 
i don't worry too much about colour. i figure that and perfect carbonation will eventuate over time. i'm putting 100% into flavour and smell at the moment. efficiency is back there somewhere as well


----------



## Weizguy (15/1/06)

Mr Brown D,

Maybe you had too much crystal (I think), or the crystal was a darker variety.

I had the same thing recently in an APA, with 250g light crystal (JW, IIRC). Still tasted good, and that's the object.

So, the colour has nothing to do with your boil, and everything to do with the crystal.

As for the hot weather, you can always ferment with Cooper's yeast and make an Aussie Pale. Let's not slow down so soon.

Big ups to ya.

Seth out


----------



## Mr Bond (15/1/06)

Second what Weiz says.
Just racked an aussie pale and did a dunkelweizen this morning (AG).This warm weather suits the fruitier styles like wheats etc....

50% wheat
50% pils/or ale
And a weizen strain yeast and let it rock away in the low/mid 20's

couldn't be simpler for a quaffer.


----------

