# A Mill That Anybody Could Make



## matho (15/8/10)

Hi all,

a little while back there was alot of talk about milling grains, what could be used or what mill to get. I advocated DIYing your own mill like i have done link, but that got me thinking that it was not fair to say that because not everyone could get access to a lathe or 2in stainless steel stock. So i set myself a challenge to make a mill using basic tools and materials, this is what i came up with a mill with a hardwood frame and rollers made of PVC piping with a shaft in the center held in with concrete.

the tools and materials used




the finnished mill



the crush on a 1mm gap



list of materials
2.4 m of 135mm by 19mm tasmanian oak $30
4 * 6201 bearings (12mm ID 32mm OD and sealed) $2.75 each
500mm of 12mm bright steel shafting rod $18 for 6m length
1m of 8mm threaded rod $5
4 * 8mm nuts $0.35 each
255mm of 150mm hd conduit $100 for 4m length
coach screws $5

i went with such a large diameter in the belief that the rollers wouldnt need any "knerling" but found out that would only work if both rollers were driven so i had to put grooves in the driven roller so that the grain got draged thru so with that in mind i would probably go with 100mm pvc pipe that would cost alot less (i didn't by the conduit it was an off cut that i scored)

ill post a step by step instruction next week when i get more time, in the mean time others could post pics and details of there DIY mills to if they would like.

cheers matho


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## manticle (15/8/10)

Good effort.

Is it powered with a crank handle or drill or motor system?


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## matho (15/8/10)

hey manticle

i used that hilti in the background to trial it out but will probably just put a hand crank on it my other mill is motorised i dont think i could be arsed motorising it as it was only a proof of concept.

cheers matho


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## manticle (15/8/10)

Looking forward to the step by step. I use a Corona but the idea of making my own appeals, particularly since I'm slightly spaz (the challenge is good).


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## beerbog (15/8/10)

matho said:


> Hi all,
> 
> a little while back there was alot of talk about milling grains, what could be used or what mill to get. I advocated DIYing your own mill like i have done link, but that got me thinking that it was not fair to say that because not everyone could get access to a lathe or 2in stainless steel stock. So i set myself a challenge to make a mill using basic tools and materials, this is what i came up with a mill with a hardwood frame and rollers made of PVC piping with a shaft in the center held in with concrete.
> 
> ...



Step by step instructions please. :beerbang:


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## bum (15/8/10)

Step 1: read where he said he'll post step by step instructions next week.


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## manticle (15/8/10)

I think it just meant he was enthusiastically waiting rather than the idea he hadn't properly read the post.


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## haysie (15/8/10)

pandoras box, uv on the orange conduit  , the maitenance, the rolling pin thread, the in-sinkerator thread. Good work Matho, keep em coming.


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## white.grant (15/8/10)

That's pretty impressive matho. Well done.

Cheers

Grant


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## beerbog (15/8/10)

bum said:


> Step 1: read where he said he'll post step by step instructions next week.



Step 2: Don't shoot too early.......... :beerbang:


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## jiesu (16/8/10)

Awesome job mate. 

I like it, a project for the perfectionist agrarian Brewery!


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## Bizier (16/8/10)

Good work mate. I have long thought about something similar. I love the idea of a larger diameter rollers, even if you have to gear it back somehow.

How 'true' are your rollers?


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## Acasta (16/8/10)

I was pretty excited about the idea of making a mill reading through the prices and it looked fair cheap untill i saw the 255mm of 150mm hd conduit $100 for 4m length haha


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## RobB (17/8/10)

Nice work. Does the gap fluctuate much, or did you have a trick for getting the shafts bang on centre?


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## matho (17/8/10)

the rollers were out of round by about 0.3mm which was taken down with a block of timber and sandpaper now the gap only varies by about 0.1mm between the two rollers. i made sure that the formers i used to hold the shaft whilst the concrete set were true by the way i cut them out. i had a bit of polycarbonate laying around so i used it to make the formers, i drilled a 12mm hole in it and put a bolt thru the hole and bolted it tight then a made another piece of plastic to hold a blade at the right radius. Then i put the bolt with the polycarbonate bolted to it in the drill and slowly cut a circle out. ill show how i did it with a picture when i can.

acasta, as i said i would probably go with 100mm pvc pipe that you could buy at bunnings fairly cheaply or you could get a few brewers together and make a few. If you work it out i think it comes to about $10 a roller including bearings.

hear is a big disclaimer
I'm not saying this mill is brilliant i haven't fully tested it out and i don't know how long it will last it was just an idea i had and i want to see if it would work and so far so good. I would suggest to anyone wanting to make it not to invest too much in it be resourcefull like all good homebrewers are. Im sure that you could find a plumber that would give you an offcut of storm water piping.

cheer's
steve


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## Silo Ted (17/8/10)

Great work, love seeing some DIY innovation. What's the cost on the build work out at, from your figures at the start I imagine about $50? With the conduit rollers, do you think would they form indents on the surface after a short time. If the concrete core could slip out for replacing the pipe once its no longer effective, it would still be economical for a few years if it performs as well as the ready made ones. 

I have a mill on my wish list for next year but this little project makes me reconsider the options. Cheers mate for sharing your innovation.


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## Nick JD (17/8/10)

Cool. 

I was thinking about making a massive coffee grinder (me likes it fine for the bag) that accepts my router. 

Your design is probably less dangerous than mine. That's a good thing - although blitzing 5kg of grain into dust in 10 seconds at 30,000rpm still sounds attractive in a masochistic way.


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## barto1308 (17/8/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Great work, love seeing some DIY innovation. What's the cost on the build work out at, from your figures at the start I imagine about $50? With the conduit rollers, do you think would they form indents on the surface after a short time. If the concrete core could slip out for replacing the pipe once its no longer effective, it would still be economical for a few years if it performs as well as the ready made ones.
> 
> I have a mill on my wish list for next year but this little project makes me reconsider the options. Cheers mate for sharing your innovation.



Continuing on that note - why do you need to keep the piping after you have set the concrete? Why not remove the conduit and have a nifty set of concrete "stone" grinders? I guess there is potential for the concrete to degrade slightly at times and add a tiny amount of powder to your crushed grain, but again, this may not be the case. I have access to plenty of conduit offcuts (apprentice sparky), so if anyone in Canberra wants some, give me a yo...

Reckon I will have a crack at this myself soon.
On a similar note - has anyone used a food processor with the spinning chopping blade attachment to mill grain (for BIAB)? Cant really see why this wouldnt work, apart from potentially giving an inconsistent crush....thoughts?


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## Banshee (17/8/10)

Awsome grind there.


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## alowen474 (17/8/10)

Good work, love the ingenuity.
As a note, there is a conveyor supplies shop in PMQ that can supply metal rollers 4" for about 20 bucks.
A suggestion for you.


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## bum (17/8/10)

Silo Ted said:


> With the conduit rollers, do you think would they form indents on the surface after a short time.



Not necessarily after a "short time" but even when stored out of UV this stuff does go soft _and_ brittle (if that makes any sense at all) with time.



BartHaus Breweries said:


> why do you need to keep the piping after you have set the concrete? Why not remove the conduit and have a nifty set of concrete "stone" grinders?



How do you get it off without damaging the surface of the concrete? How do you ensure the concrete forms perfectly against the conduit without any gaps?


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## barto1308 (17/8/10)

bum said:


> Not necessarily after a "short time" but even when stored out of UV this stuff does go soft _and_ brittle (if that makes any sense at all) with time.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get it off without damaging the surface of the concrete? How do you ensure the concrete forms perfectly against the conduit without any gaps?



Im sure i could talk to an old concreter and get some tips. As for ensuring no air gaps, constant agitation should remove any bubbles (dont ask me how to do this - thats above my pay grade!)
Removing the conduit would only require a hacksaw and a steady hand - or you could pre-cut the conduit to make a two-piece mold that is clamped in place... just thoughts...


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## BjornJ (17/8/10)

beerforal said:


> Good work, love the ingenuity.
> As a note, there is a conveyor supplies shop in PMQ that can supply metal rollers 4" for about 20 bucks.
> A suggestion for you.




Beerforal,
would you have any contact details/web site for the supplier?

I have also toyed a little with a mill design but couldn't find a way to get the rollers made (or knurled to be exact).
Even talked with an engineering company in Sydney and sent them drawings but never did end up getting a price for making some knurled rollers.

thanks
Bjorn


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## Pumpy (17/8/10)

How to think outside the square by Matho great work


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## mika (17/8/10)

beerforal said:


> Good work, love the ingenuity.
> As a note, there is a conveyor supplies shop in PMQ that can supply metal rollers 4" for about 20 bucks.
> A suggestion for you.



Conveyor tubing is pretty thin walled, comparitively speaking. I don't know how the tube would last trying to squish grains.


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## Thirsty Boy (17/8/10)

I've definitely seen something similar to this before... But with the previous suggestion of removing the conduit and using the bare concrete. With the larger diameter and the rougher surface of the concrete, knurling/scoring was unneeded.

As a matter of fact, with rollers at that diameter you might be able to get away without knurling even on the smoother plastic, especially with both rollers being driven.

The large diameter and fairly smooth surface of that mill should give a great crush... And by the looks of that picture, does. Nice work math.

TB


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## Acasta (17/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> Cool.
> 
> I was thinking about making a massive coffee grinder (me likes it fine for the bag) that accepts my router.
> 
> Your design is probably less dangerous than mine. That's a good thing - although blitzing 5kg of grain into dust in 10 seconds at 30,000rpm still sounds attractive in a masochistic way.



use a blender or kitchen whiz? then just upscale it.
Or, just turn a lawn mower upside down and attach a bucket haha.


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## tavas (17/8/10)

beerforal said:


> Good work, love the ingenuity.
> As a note, there is a conveyor supplies shop in PMQ that can supply metal rollers 4" for about 20 bucks.
> A suggestion for you.



Conveyor rollers would work, however you would need to think about how you drive them. Rollers are meant to sit in a fixed frame and are spun by the conveyor belt running over top. In this application you'd have to weld the shaft to the bearing, which would wreck the bearing.

Durability wise for the roller steel; I would think they would last a reasonable time in this duty (longer than PVC conduit anyway).


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## tavas (17/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> Cool.
> 
> I was thinking about making a massive coffee grinder (me likes it fine for the bag) that accepts my router.
> 
> Your design is probably less dangerous than mine. That's a good thing - although blitzing 5kg of grain into dust in 10 seconds at 30,000rpm still sounds attractive in a masochistic way.




You and Bandito should start a business together :icon_cheers: . Though I think you would at least get around to making your idea work, though not the safest I'll admit  

Love the idea tho. A turbo charged grain mill :beerbang:


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## matho (17/8/10)

Banshee said:


> Awsome grind there.



it was a good grind alot less damage to the husk than my 2in ss rollers do


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## therocko (17/8/10)

Iknow two blokes who own one of those old coffee grinders that used to be in the supermarkets. They have the adjustable grind function from coarse to fine. They swear by it and it crushes perfectly. The trouble is trying to track one down?


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## Acasta (17/8/10)

therocko said:


> Iknow two blokes who own one of those old coffee grinders that used to be in the supermarkets. They have the adjustable grind function from coarse to fine. They swear by it and it crushes perfectly. The trouble is trying to track one down?



I got one from Aldi for $13. No adjustable, but as NickJD says, makes flour, good for BIAB.


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## Brewman_ (17/8/10)

I like the idea.

But what about food grade processing materials? Generally PVC pipe is not food grade, it is made for non food purposes, as far as I know, and while grinding you will probably end up with bits of PVC in your grind. Does that bother you, or do you have controls in your process to cater for this? Particularly if the polymer gets into the mash..

I think there may be some polythene pipe options? Again the polymer may be food grade here, particularly if it is not coloured. But the process that forms the pipe all of the raw material and finished goods handling may not be to the food standards, so the finished pipe may not be food grade as a result?

fear_n_loath


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## Screwtop (18/8/10)

fear_n_loath said:


> I like the idea.
> 
> But what about food grade processing materials? Generally PVC pipe is not food grade, it is made for non food purposes, as far as I know, and while grinding you will probably end up with bits of PVC in your grind. Does that bother you, or do you have controls in your process to cater for this? Particularly if the polymer gets into the mash..
> 
> ...




Ohhh no ................the old "is it food grade" post.


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## jayandcath (18/8/10)

Quick get me a beer before it starts!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## roddersf (18/8/10)

BartHaus Breweries said:


> On a similar note - has anyone used a food processor with the spinning chopping blade attachment to mill grain (for BIAB)? Cant really see why this wouldnt work, apart from potentially giving an inconsistent crush....thoughts?



That's an interesting topic, unfortunately the wife's food processor smells of garlic and herbs all of the time so I cant try it - can anyone give this suggestion a run and post the results?

On other thoughts - Matho - I'd like to see a grinder invented using origami and chewing gum alone - MacGyver style! (for us terminally useless DIY'ers  )


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## manticle (18/8/10)

Screwtop said:


> Ohhh no ................the old "is it food grade" post.



Where the hell did you find that emoticon?


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## Mayor of Mildura (18/8/10)

go on give it a go. mmm garlic beer.  

I haven't tried the food processor. Worth a try i guess. I have tried a rocket blender. It turned the grain into flour in no time flat. Problem though was when adding the resulting flour to mash water ended up with big lumps. major PITA. Then i let the smoke out of the rocket and I threw it in the bin. Then i tried the blender. again it makes flour, but a coarser grind and no lumps. But it takes ages cause the blender is small. 

I never thought of a couple of concrete rollers. Homebrew ingenuity at its best! great stuff matho.





roddersf said:


> That's an interesting topic, unfortunately the wife's food processor smells of garlic and herbs all of the time so I cant try it - can anyone give this suggestion a run and post the results?
> 
> On other thoughts - Matho - I'd like to see a grinder invented using origami and chewing gum alone - MacGyver style! (for us terminally useless DIY'ers  )


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## Jimmeh (18/8/10)

very nice. how did you get the shafts perfectly centered in the concrete?

Cheers, James


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## Bizier (18/8/10)

Jimmeh said:


> very nice. how did you get the shafts perfectly centered in the concrete?
> 
> Cheers, James


 

+1 - I very much want to know this, and how you did the concrete part, i.e. type of concrete and whether any kind of aggregate or reinforcing.


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## Nick JD (18/8/10)

I told my grain mill to hurry up because I was near to strike temperature and she went an bitch slapped me all the way to Thursday with her arms of steel. 

"Oh NO, you di'nt". 







I pity the FOOL who has to brew under these conditions.


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## manticle (18/8/10)

Did Father Beer deliver his gifts early this evening Nicholas?


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## Nick JD (18/8/10)

manticle said:


> Did Father Beer deliver his gifts early this evening Nicholas?



Father Beer is still in the Chillout room with a ClusterBomb Lager.

Currently Dr. Chuckles, in Da Haus.

Thanks for reminding me to put up my ClusterBomb Lager Recipe on the db. It's the shizzzzz izle, bruva.


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## Acasta (18/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> I told my grain mill to hurry up because I was near to strike temperature and she went an bitch slapped me all the way to Thursday with her arms of steel.
> 
> I pity the FOOL who has to brew under these conditions.



hahahaha


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## matho (18/8/10)

bizier,jimmeh
to hold the shafts in the center when it was setting i made a former out of polycarbonate using a homemade 'tank cutter'.
basically i drilled a 12mm hole in the plastic put a 12mm bolt thru the hole and put the nut on the bolt and tightened it up, then i made up a jig that held a blade at the radius that i wanted. its just a piece of plastic with a 12mm hole drilled in it and a slot to hold the blade that was put over the bolt then the bolt was put into the drill. i then slowly started the drill and held the blade which then cut a perfect circle into the plastic with a 12mm hole in the exact center after a little while, defantly have to be patient.The concrete was just rapid set type about $5 for 20kg. i keyed the shaft with cuts in it but it wasn't enough so i have come up with the idea of drilling 4mm holes in the shaft and putting 4mm bolts thru so they can hold the shaft in the concrete.

fear and loth never really gave to much thought to that. i know that the plastisiser in soft pvc is not good for you and when you burn pvc its nasty. but alot of ridgid pvc pipe is used to carry water. your right at little pieces of pcv will come off but were talking about microscopic pieces you probably get more nasties running hot wort thru pvc tubing. Maybe ill make up a roller using 100mm gal pipe and see if i can get it to run true, will have to add more tools to the list though.

cheer's steve


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## megs80 (18/8/10)

Ive taken no notice of the thread and will probably not add anything interesting to it. I only checked out the image of the crack and thought "what a bloody good crack"

Brewstrong yall
meggs


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## praxis178 (18/8/10)

An alternative pipe material to use to avoid the PVC issues is aluminium irrigation pipe, if there is some dairying or other irrigation intensive farming in your area you should be able to get some scraps from the farm suppliers for next to nix. It comes in three major diameters: 3", 4" and 5" although I'm sure that there are probably others too. Wall thickness is usually in the 2-3mm range.

To avoid having to get it knurled, maybe look at bead/grit blasting?


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## manticle (18/8/10)

megs80 said:


> I only checked out the image of the crack and thought "what a bloody good crack"




This one:





or this one:


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## Brewman_ (18/8/10)

matho said:


> fear and loth never really gave to much thought to that. i know that the plastisiser in soft pvc is not good for you and when you burn pvc its nasty. but alot of ridgid pvc pipe is used to carry water. your right at little pieces of pcv will come off but were talking about microscopic pieces you probably get more nasties running hot wort thru pvc tubing. Maybe ill make up a roller using 100mm gal pipe and see if i can get it to run true, will have to add more tools to the list though.
> cheer's steve


Hi matho,
I reckon your onto a good thing. And you've generate a lot of interest. If what comes out of your idea is a fit for purpose home grain crusher you can make yourself, then it will benefit a heap of brewers. I would just like to open the discussion to materials best for use, and as you said, you had not given a lot of thought to materials.

I don't have the solution for the roller. Maybe SS Ballestrading tube? If your proto type proves a concept, and there is a discussion on what materials may be best to use, whatever that is, cost aside for a moment. Then if the material had to be bought in 6m lengths or what ever, then maybe a few brewers could chip in to get the right stuff and share it. 

fear_n_loath


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## felten (18/8/10)

bum said:


> How do you get it off without damaging the surface of the concrete?


just rub a little butter in there, it has the advantage of being food grade too


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## bum (18/8/10)

Forget that. I want my beer to get the Heart Foundation Tick.


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## Screwtop (19/8/10)

bum said:


> Forget that. I want my beer to get the Heart Foundation Tick.




Rice Bran Spread should do the trick then, plus your beers would have a very unique diacetyl aroma :lol:

Taking 4.7Kg of malt down to the practice pitch this arvo to give em a roll with the big roller, need to sweep the concrete pitch first of course, that adds a bit of time, but it's easier and cheaper than making my own mill. Should I do wheat separately, will it need two rolls?

:: The big roller is steel, pitch is concrete, straw broom, so all food grade except the plastic bucket I use to transport the grain/grist, but it's only in the bucket for the 10 min trip to and from the pitch. 

Screwy


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## matho (19/8/10)

Screwtop said:


> Rice Bran Spread should do the trick then, plus your beers would have a very unique diacetyl aroma :lol:
> 
> Taking 4.7Kg of malt down to the practice pitch this arvo to give em a roll with the big roller, need to sweep the concrete pitch first of course, that adds a bit of time, but it's easier and cheaper than making my own mill. Should I do wheat separately, will it need two rolls?
> 
> ...




I think your on to something screwy, its free, you dont have to build anything so its safe and you get exercise at the same time the only down side is you cant do it if its raining. That then asks the question what the hell am i doing making this thing, might just give up :lol: 

cheer's steve


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## matho (19/8/10)

Here's another option. stuff the food grade thing 300mm storm water drain pipe and power it with the 4.5 hp brigs and straton I have under the house



cheers Steve


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## Bizier (19/8/10)

Screwy: If there is grain on the wicket...

ED: and thanks for the elaboration on your roller centering Matho.


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## asis (19/8/10)

100 or 150mm PVC watermain maybe? I assume its foodgrade. Dunno about the bits that may or may not come off after a bit of use.


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## Nevalicious (20/8/10)

Screwtop said:


> Ohhh no ................the old "is it food grade" post.





manticle said:


> Where the hell did you find that emoticon?



Agreed!? We want answers!!!




Nick JD said:


> I told my grain mill to hurry up because I was near to strike temperature and she went an bitch slapped me all the way to Thursday with her arms of steel.
> 
> "Oh NO, you di'nt".
> 
> ...



I nearly literally pissed myself :lol: 




manticle said:


> This one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Someones been busy on Google???

Yes... I have absolutely nothing useful to add... Except this IS a fantastic idea.... Once we have exact method for us dummies (speaks for oneself)


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## bum (20/8/10)

asis said:


> 100 or 150mm PVC watermain maybe? I assume its foodgrade. Dunno about the bits that may or may not come off after a bit of use.



As someone who lays this stuff for a living I can tell you that it is food grade when used as designed but (as you point out) possibly not so when mashed. 

(Although, speaking as someone without any sort of relevant scientific background, I'd presume that finding some uPVC/mPVC in your mash is probably no worse for you than mashing in a plastic esky anyway.)


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## Brewman_ (20/8/10)

bum said:


> (Although, speaking as someone without any sort of relevant scientific background,



Maybe some do.......have that background......


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## bum (20/8/10)

Perhaps they do. But if they do they should be pointing that out so that their posts don't seem like speculation rather than hard earned knowledge.

Just saying.


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## Brewman_ (20/8/10)

Have a look at yourself.

If I gave you hard earned knowledge you would not even recognise it.


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## bum (20/8/10)

fear_n_loath said:


> Have a look at yourself.



Ok.

Hmmm...my post acknowledged my strengths and weaknesses in the field and as yet no one has given me any reason to doubt my assumptions (although I do still accept them as assumptions)...yeah, I'm quite comfortable with my position so far.

Thanks for giving me this opportunity to see myself as I already think I am.


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## matho (20/8/10)

ok so using pvc probably wasn't the best idea.

so here are some ideas that have been mentioned

1. using the pipe as a mold then removing it and using the bare concrete 
2. using a steel pipe instead.

went for pvc because it would be easy to make round the concrete will come out of the pipe out of round so it will have to be made round.
the way i made the pvc pipe round was to mount in the mill body connected the drill and ran it while holding a block of wood and sand paper it worked well.
so for concrete i would have to use something harder im thinking an oil stone yes no ?
for the metal pipe i would have to do the samething maybe a bastard file and patients.

please disscuss

cheers steve


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## Wolfy (20/8/10)

matho said:


> please disscuss


Concrete will crumble, degrade and get broken much more easily and most likely have a much shorter life span, how much more 'food safe' than PVC is it anyway?
Steel adds additional cost, complexity and difficulty - unless you can source pre-fabricated rollers, which most likely then adds to the cost and removes much of the DIY aspect.

There is sensible and there is pedantic, just like their is cheap DIY and commercial alternatives. Once your cost gets to about $50 I think that it passes the point where it's a viable alternative to some of the cheaper commercial products on the market, however your DIY mill may still have the advantage of a better crush. At the same time "Anybody Could Make" should really be "Anyone who has the tools, bits and bobs, equipment and basic skills to Make", I can't wait to read your instructions and see the pictures of how you did it, but even the process of centering the rollers seems to be a little more 'complex' than many inept tool users can manage (_edit_, I put myself in that category so it's not an insult targeted at anyone in particular).


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## matho (20/8/10)

thanks wolfy for your thoughts
yeah maybe the title was a bit too much but i did put in the sub text with basic tools, i thought a set square, saw, hacksaw, drill bits and speedbores and a 13mm drill was fairly accessable to most people and when i put it together i thought it was that simple that anybody could do it. 
maybe i couldn't explain myself very well when i talked about making the formers but it was very simple i could have gone out and bought a tank cutter that could do 150mm holes but they cost over $90 which is too much to spend for a one off use.

here i a pic of how i did it hopefully it show how easy it was.





ill have some time tonight as swmbo is going out so i should be able to start the step by step 

oh and about the rollers i think the only way to find out is to try them both so ill have to make some more  

cheer's steve


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## kymba (20/8/10)

dunno if this is welcome, but have you thought about a holesaw? i used 160mm hole in my cheapass 1/3hp gmc drill press on some hardwood. took a while, but what brewing project hasn't?




-kymba


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## matho (20/8/10)

kymba said:


> dunno if this is welcome, but have you thought about a holesaw? i used 160mm hole in my cheapass 1/3hp gmc drill press on some hardwood. took a while, but what brewing project hasn't?
> 
> View attachment 40256
> 
> ...



thats a really good idea just looked that the price of a 6" 152mm holesaw about $50 cuts to a depth of 41mm what type of hardwood did you use kymba

cheer's steve

edit: found a cheaper one


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## fraser_john (20/8/10)

kymba said:


> dunno if this is welcome, but have you thought about a holesaw? i used 160mm hole in my cheapass 1/3hp gmc drill press on some hardwood. took a while, but what brewing project hasn't?
> 
> View attachment 40256
> 
> ...



Neat solution to driving the second roller too! O-rings, great lateral thinking.


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## BjornJ (20/8/10)

kymba said:


> dunno if this is welcome, but have you thought about a holesaw? i used 160mm hole in my cheapass 1/3hp gmc drill press on some hardwood. took a while, but what brewing project hasn't?
> 
> View attachment 40256
> 
> ...




Awesome thinking, there Kymba!

Do you have any more pics/descriptions of your mill project to get the small gray working?

thanks
Bjorn


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## praxis178 (20/8/10)

matho said:


> ok so using pvc probably wasn't the best idea.
> 
> so here are some ideas that have been mentioned
> 
> ...



1. using the pipe as a mold then removing it and using the bare concrete 
2. using a steel pipe instead.
3. using aluminium irrigation pipe

I second Wolfy's comment on concrete's propensity to crumble, if using steel pipe you still have to get it knurled so you're more or less back to square one. The Al pipe option at least leaves you the option of bead basting instead of knurling.....


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## kymba (20/8/10)

matho said:


> what type of hardwood did you use kymba


dunno mate, some sort of gum i think. i cut them from a 45mm thick offcut left over from a reno at my dad's house about 25 yrs ago...lol the only thing he has kept that long and i cut circles out of it - kids r awesome hey!

also the o-rings there are 3mm thick jobbies (about $3 each from an engineering joint), but when / if these die i will replace them with 2mm ones




BjornJ said:


> Do you have any more pics/descriptions of your mill project to get the small gray working?



only the first handful of pics is in this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=47097

I am too proud to post pictures of it working at the moment...if only my level of skill matched my ambition


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## argon (20/8/10)

love the idea of using timber for the rollers... but what about using one of these Aluminium Rolling Pin could be knurled i guess. stainless jobbies are bit more expensive though. I'd imagine they'd crush grain reasonably well.


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## Bizier (20/8/10)

On the concrete tip, I am interested to know if the harder type concretes that people used for durable polished flooring would be good for a roller. Perhaps you could even run the rollers against abrasive until they have no variability.


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## brando (20/8/10)

Thomas J. said:


> 1. using the pipe as a mold then removing it and using the bare concrete
> 2. using a steel pipe instead.
> 3. using aluminium irrigation pipe
> 
> I second Wolfy's comment on concrete's propensity to crumble, if using steel pipe you still have to get it knurled so you're more or less back to square one. The Al pipe option at least leaves you the option of bead basting instead of knurling.....




Possibly etch the al pipe with acid from Bunnings?


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## TroyNZ (20/8/10)

kymba said:


> dunno if this is welcome, but have you thought about a holesaw? i used 160mm hole in my cheapass 1/3hp gmc drill press on some hardwood. took a while, but what brewing project hasn't?
> 
> View attachment 40256
> 
> ...



is that "food grade" hardwood?!?


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## TroyNZ (20/8/10)

BartHaus Breweries said:


> Im sure i could talk to an old concreter and get some tips. As for ensuring no air gaps, constant agitation should remove any bubbles (dont ask me how to do this - thats above my pay grade!)
> 
> Just tapping it with a hammer all over should get all the air bubbles out or if you have a drill with a hammer function hold that against the side of the mould


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## Andyd (20/8/10)

BartHaus Breweries said:


> Continuing on that note - why do you need to keep the piping after you have set the concrete? Why not remove the conduit and have a nifty set of concrete "stone" grinders? I guess there is potential for the concrete to degrade slightly at times and add a tiny amount of powder to your crushed grain, but again, this may not be the case. I have access to plenty of conduit offcuts (apprentice sparky), so if anyone in Canberra wants some, give me a yo...
> ?



If you did take the PVC away, I would expect quite a bit of concrete dust in the grain, and before long the rollers will pit and become ineffective. If you've ever rendered a wall and left it unsealed you'll know all about concrete dust...

Andy


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## matho (20/8/10)

Thomas J. said:


> 1. using the pipe as a mold then removing it and using the bare concrete
> 2. using a steel pipe instead.
> 3. using aluminium irrigation pipe
> 
> I second Wolfy's comment on concrete's propensity to crumble, if using steel pipe you still have to get it knurled so you're more or less back to square one. The Al pipe option at least leaves you the option of bead basting instead of knurling.....



i hadn't forgotten about the aluminium its just i cant get it easily, i have searched but cant find a place nearby, if you can get some mate try it out and let us know. i think the only way we are going to know is to try all the options. i really appreciate everybodys sugestions it has given me lot to think about and try.

cheer's steve


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## kelbygreen (20/8/10)

yeah bare concrete wouldnt be the best idea as it leaches lime and only way to get away from that is to seal it then you are putting more chemicals in contact with the grain plus that will just wear off over time making maintenance a pain. I think for the cost of it getting some proper rollers might be the best not sure the cost of them though but surely it will still save you alot more then just buying a ready made mill


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## matho (21/8/10)

The Frame:

Im not going to go into exact measurement because that all depends on the dimensions of the rollers

The frame is made out of Tasmanian oak that is 19mm thick to add some extra strength I doubled it up.

To hold the 2 pieces together I used 35mm MDF screws as with any hardwood work it is recommended that you drill pilot holes before you screw in any screw it stops the timber from splitting.

I cut the sides in such a way as to make the corners look like this




The inner short side was about 3mm longer than the length of the roller and the outer short side was 2* 19mm longer of course.

The inner longer sides are 2 times the diameter of the roller plus 5mm each side plus 19mm each side and the outer longer side is again 2* 19mm longer.

It is all held together with 6mm coach screws as shown in the picture once again it is a good idea to drill pilot holes .







Now that everything is screwed together check how square the box is with the set square it doesnt matter if its not perfect just close. Find the centre of one of the long sides and mark it, measure out from each side the centreline the radius of the rollers and mark it this is where the shafts are going to sit. Now get the set square and with it mark the other long side of the frame so that you know that you have two parallel lines on the top of the frame. Measure down the inner sides the length of the radius of the rollers from the shaft marks and drill a pilot holes. On the 1 in speedbor mark the depth of the bearings that you are using. Use the speedbor to bore 4 holes to the depth of the bearing.




On the side of the adjustable roller take the speedbor and bore another hole 5mm towards the edge, take you time and it should be ok, it should end up looking like this.




Take a 5/8 speedbor and bore right the way thru to the other side so that the shaft can go thru on the sides you want them too.

On the adjustable side take a 8mm drill and drill up from the side to the bearing hole like this




Then take a 11.5mm hole and drill down to meet the other hole like this




Now in that hole put in the nut 

On the small side mark where the hole should be so you can put the threaded rod thru and drill it larger than the 8mm hole but smaller than the nut.

It looks like this 




This is what the adjustment looks like when it is put together (I stole the adjustment idea off another AHB member)



cheers steve (the rollers will come later)


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## dcx3 (21/8/10)

instead of a mill could you use a blender...just curious


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## goomboogo (21/8/10)

dcx3 said:


> instead of a mill could you use a blender...just curious


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## matho (21/8/10)

dcx3 said:


> instead of a mill could you use a blender...just curious



i think the general consensus is that you can use a blender especially if you BIAB because you dont need the husks to form a filter bed but you can only do small amounts at a time so its not as conveniant as a mill where you can load up the hopper with the grain and crush 5+ kg in under 5min.

on the pvc topic here are a few things that i have been sent or found on the net
wiki on vinyl cloride

material safty data sheets on pvc pipe.
View attachment material_safety_data_sheets.pdf


and a safe handling instruction on PVC resin
View attachment GuidetotheSafeHandlingOfCorvicPVCResin.pdf


vinyl chloride is nasty stuff and starts to decompose above 60 deg c and pvc pipe look like it can have lead added to it as a stabiliser
i dont know how much will get into the mash but ill try out some alternatives too see if i can make them work.

The whole idea of this thread was to give people a easy to make and realatively cheap mill hopefully i can accomplish that 

cheer's steve


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## The Scientist (21/8/10)

matho said:


> i think the general consensus is that you can use a blender especially if you BIAB because you dont need the husks to form a filter bed but you can only do small amounts at a time so its not as conveniant as a mill where you can load up the hopper with the grain and crush 5+ kg in under 5min.
> 
> on the pvc topic here are a few things that i have been sent or found on the net
> wiki on vinyl cloride
> ...



Good work so far Math. Keep it coming mate :beerbang:


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## matho (22/8/10)

The rollers.

Cut the shaft to the length required drill two 4mm holes in the shaft so that you can put 2 4mm bolts thru it should look like this





The bolts are required to key the shaft into the concrete.

Next take a piece of sheet material I used plastic but I think 3mm MDF will do just as good a job with a coat of paint. Cut out a square that is larger that the diameter of the roller find where the center is (doesnt have to be exact just close) and drill a hole the same size as the shaft that your using (12mm for me). Now get a nut and bolt the same size as the shaft, put the bolt thru the hole and bolt it up.




Now take another piece of sheet and drill a hole the same size as the shaft then measure out from the centreline of that hole the internal radius of the pipe your are using and make a cut down to the level of the center of the hole, this is to hold the blade that is going to cut the circle so make it as close to the width of the blade as you can. Place that piece of sheet over the bolt. For the blade I used both a Stanley knife and a cut off hacksaw blade both worked well so you can use either.







Now put the bolt into the drill and the blade into the cut and slowly start to cut the circle out, take your time and it should come out OK.










On the pipe that your using make sure one end is square this might take a little while, then take a piece of material that you can rest a hacksaw blade on and cut it to the width you want for your rollers. Rest your hacksaw blade on that piece of material and slowly rotate the pipe so that the hacksaw blade cuts the pipe that way you can make sure both ends are true. You dont have to cut completely thru the pipe just make a deep enough grove so that when you saw it your blade doesnt skip out.




Put one of the formers into an end of pipe then put the shaft in, mix up some concrete and fill up the pipe then put the other former on. Try to get a lot of air bubbles out before you push the former all the way home then let the concrete set.




The rollers are not exactly round so what I did was to put them into the non adjustable side of the frame, cut a leftover piece of timber so that it was a tight fit between the frame. Put a piece of sandpaper on that block of timber and start roller spinning and push the timber so that the sandpaper just touches the roller slowly take out the out of round of each roller. That is it put the rollers into the frame and check how round the are, then work out how you are going to drive them.

These are instructions for the pvc rollers as has been pointed out they are food grade I have found some 6in stainless steel pipe that has 2mm wall thickness and is about $35 a metre. Im going to try and find some locally but if I cant then Ill have to get it sent up from Melbourne the instructions shouldnt change to much may be a few more tools to cope with the stainless.

cheers steve


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## dago001 (23/8/10)

The solution that I found for driving the rollers on my DIY mill was to use 2 drills. One on each roller. I use a low speed cordless on one and a standard pistol drill on the other. I have 38mm stainless rollers, and couldn't find any gears the correct size. I tried using o rings but on the small diameter rollers it slipped when the going got a little tough. When I machined up the shafts I puposely left an extra 40 mm hanging out the ends, as I hadn't decided on the drive system. This has left me enough shaft to fit the drills on to. The 2 drills work a treat, with a bit of practice you can get the speed perfect - I am crushing 5 kg of grain in about 2 - 4 mins depending on crush size.
Cheers
David


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## matho (23/8/10)

david,

ultimately thats what i think im going to do with this one i have two spare drill bodies laying around so ill see how it goes just for a laugh

i was thinking of using chain like this




sprockets are surprisingly cheap, chain isnt and it would just be too much work for a side project

thanks for that steve


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## jeffsonia (25/8/10)

g'day , well done on both of your grain mills they look well constructed. is there any chance of getting the plans for your steel grain mill ? i am pretty keen on having a go at it as i have access to a lathe and milling machine. any info would be greatly appreciated.
cheers.


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## matho (25/8/10)

No worries fitarm I'll do it tommorrow when I'm on a real computer (I'm on my iPod at the moment)

cheers Steve


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## BjornJ (25/8/10)

this is a great thread!

thanks for taking the time to give the rest of us some ideas.
i have started doodeling on my mill plans again but there is some doubt i will ever get around to try making it  


keep it coming


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## matho (25/8/10)

Mate glad it has got you thinking that was the whole idea of the thread too make people think about diying there own mill it's a good feeling to mill your own grain in your own mill 

cheers Steve


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## Thirsty Boy (25/8/10)

matho said:


> david,
> 
> ultimately thats what i think im going to do with this one i have two spare drill bodies laying around so ill see how it goes just for a laugh
> 
> ...



Pushbike chains/sprockets/gears/tensioner etc ????


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## Phoney (25/8/10)

matho said:


> list of materials
> 2.4 m of 135mm by 19mm tasmanian oak $30
> 4 * 6201 bearings (12mm ID 32mm OD and sealed) $2.75 each
> 500mm of 12mm bright steel shafting rod $18 for 6m length
> ...



So the final cost is around $188? Maybe im missing something here, but why is 4m of conduit needed? You cant buy it in shorter lengths?


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## jeffsonia (25/8/10)

matho said:


> No worries fitarm I'll do it tommorrow when I'm on a real computer (I'm on my iPod at the moment)
> 
> cheers Steve




thanks for replying steve, much appreciated.
cheers, jeff


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## Wolfy (26/8/10)

While avoiding sleep I found this 5 page thread on the HBT forums "Budget concrete roller mill", it might have some useful information related to this thread.


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## matho (26/8/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> So the final cost is around $188? Maybe im missing something here, but why is 4m of conduit needed? You cant buy it in shorter lengths?



Phoneyhuh,
i dont think there is a place where you can buy short bits of conduit i just put the price in there to show people the whole picture. Look at my post above with the MSDS on PVC pipes and make up your mind on using PVC if you still want to then use water pipe which you are more likely to find off cuts for. I have some 3 inch steel tubing which can be bought from bunnings for about $35 which ill try soon. i have checked it out and its very close to being round so that is a bonus. im also trying to find some local stainless steel tubing to use if you live down in melboure then Geordi is selling 6in ss pipe at $35 a meter in their surplus stock section.

fitarm,
i basically followed the instuctions here with a few mods i got some ss stock but unfortunately they were only 200mm long each which made knerling difficult if you look at the pics you can see where the jaws slightly cruched the knerl on the rollers if i did it again i would knerl before cutting to length.

thristy, yeah i was thinking of using bike chain but as i said i dont think ill have the time to play around with the idea maybe later.

cheer's steve


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## matho (26/8/10)

great find wolfy looks good.

i have also found this pdf for anyone with a few spare electric motors

View attachment Motorised_malt_mill_1_.pdf


cheer's steve


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## jeffsonia (27/8/10)

matho said:


> Phoneyhuh,
> i dont think there is a place where you can buy short bits of conduit i just put the price in there to show people the whole picture. Look at my post above with the MSDS on PVC pipes and make up your mind on using PVC if you still want to then use water pipe which you are more likely to find off cuts for. I have some 3 inch steel tubing which can be bought from bunnings for about $35 which ill try soon. i have checked it out and its very close to being round so that is a bonus. im also trying to find some local stainless steel tubing to use if you live down in melboure then Geordi is selling 6in ss pipe at $35 a meter in their surplus stock section.
> 
> fitarm,
> ...



Steve,
thanks very much for the info on the grain mill.
Cheers, jeff


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