# Rain water ( good or bad)?



## azzwa

Just wondering people's thoughts on using rain water to brew with. It prob has been a topic before but since I'm new to this site and brewing your thoughts would be a big help as rain water is all I have access to.


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## razz

I've been using it for ten years azzwa, I don't know if it's me or the water but I'd like to think my beers are getting better. I don't think you will have any issues, many brewers run their water through a filter to get out any dirt/crap, I always boil mine first. Good luck!


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## yum beer

I use tank water for my lighter beers, pilsners, lagers and use tap water for my ales, my local water is pretty soft.
Well worth looking into water chemistry with the rain water but must admit I dont do too much.
You can work into the water chemistry, as Razz says boil your water before using to kill any nasties living it.


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## Hippy

As said above rainwater is good for pilsners etc but you still need to add a percentage of tap water or otherwise do mineral additions as rainwater is lacking in essential ions.


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## treefiddy

Decomposing gumleaves and dead possum doesn't supply the water with enough ions?
What makes it so tasty then?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't labels use 100% RO water in his lagers, no additions?
There's anybody I'd trust on the specifics of lagers/pilsners it would be him.


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## bignath

I used rainwater once in a brew as an experiment and absolutely loved the resulting beer. Seemed to taste "fresher" initially, and throughout the couple of months that i was able to hold it for.

However, i put a couple of stubbies away to see how it would age, and it tasted them at maybe 12months old. They were still nice, but the hop presence had subsided much more than that same beer done with my local water source.

No additions.....straight out of the tank.

No idea at all of the chemical reaction side of things going on here, but the rainwater tank beer dropped off very quickly on the storage side of things.


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## Bizier

Aside from the mash and sparge pH not being buffered and mineral flavour considerations, you definitely want some calcium in there, it is beneficial to the mash, boil, ferment and conditioning.


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## Nibbo

Only use rainwater at home. Runs through a single filter at 25mic which services the property. We bath, shower, drink and cook with it without requiring hospital attention. Although over summer having no rain down here (SW VIC) for months we developed a good amount of H2S (hydrogen Sulphide) in there (due to not being stirred up which helps introduce oxygen to the water). Apparently the missus doesn't enjoy the taste and smell of rotten egg. Doesn't pose a risk unless i'm planning on entering the tank. Can kill you in a confined space if theres enough to displace the oxygen around you. Thinking of setting up a solar fountain pump in the tank to keep it aerated.

Other than the smell and odour issue, no problems with using rain water for brewing. Just add your calcium and salts as you desire.
I think you'll find prickly moses doesn't have a water main runing past their brewery and they seem to make beer thats a bit of alright.


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## billygoat

Rain water is all I have available where I live. I usually use EZ Water to check my additions which consist of Gypsum, CaCl2 and sometimes Epsom Salts. I put enough in to satisfy the ppm for Cacium, Sulphates, Magnesium etc and also pH.
I had my water analysed and it showed there was less than 1ppm of Calcium, Sulphates and just about everything else so it definetly needed additions. I alter the additions to suit which style of beer being brewed which is mainly ales.
Appears to work well.


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## seamad

We are on tank water, house runs through 10 micron and kitchen through a carbon filter, beers made from kitchen water, which has almost zero tds. I add calcium salts to all beers in different ratios. I have a pH meter that measures to 2 decimal places, used it all the time until I got to the point I can figure out what to add to get pH out of certain grain bills. Have assumed you are all grain brewing, if not, provided you are happy drinking your water then it should be fine for brewing kits.


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## RdeVjun

All good replies, but seeing as we're not in a specific kits or grain sub- forum, we've missed one crucial question- azzwa, are you brewing Kits or All Grain? Answering that question really will make a difference as to how you treat it, however regardless of that *rainwater is great for brewing* and in more ways than just one (eg. a great thermal mass to exploit for cooling).

*Kits:* Boil it first is my advice, unless you're quite sure it is sanitary. Anything that goes into the fermenter along with the tin of goop that is not the desired yeast should be dead, otherwise it will probably lead to infection.
It can be a PITA firstly boiling and then cooling all of the water required for kit brewing, you'll probably need a 19L stockpot to do it in one go and for lifting it around when full, muscles like Popeye won't hurt. Chemical treatment to sanitise is another possibility though, we just don't see it much. Kits seem to come with sufficient salts already dissolved for a healthy ferment, don't ever recall seeing treatment of water for that.

*All Grain:* Rain water is an excellent choice for flexibility, you can brew just about anything with it, basically its akin to starting with a blank canvas and you decide how it is filled in. You will probably have to manipulate the salts/ chemistry for best results with some styles, however you can brew with it as is.
With all grain brewing, adequate calcium is the main hurdle to overcome, salts commonly used to adjust the water profile are CaCl2, CaSO4, CaCO3 and MgSO4 (all from decent LHBS), some lactic, citric or phosphoric acid may be helpful as well, but don't get too carried away to begin with.

There are loads of web resources for water profiling, many of the common brewing applications also have a shot at it, some good, others are not quite as useful. Search should yield many useful hits, also this Water sub- forum has loads of reading.


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## azzwa

Hi all thanks for everyone's input I should have specified I'm just starting out with kit brewing and hope to progress from there once I master the kits.


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## therook

Been using rain water for over 100 brews of AG.

Never boil it pre mash either

Never a problem.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Dont worry about the water chemistry just yet. If you can drink it you can brew with it


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## Britboozer

I've done 10 AG brews using tankwater, making English bitter. Tastes pretty damn good to me, but now I'd like to try modifying my water.

I've looked through various water calculators, but they seem very complicated. Can anyone recommend a supplier of premixed salts to add to rainwater to make it suitable for brewing beers like Landlord, Hobgoblin, etc?

Otherwise I'm going to have do battle with all that chemistry and it makes my brain hurt.

Thanks guys


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## felten

Britboozer said:


> I've done 10 AG brews using tankwater, making English bitter. Tastes pretty damn good to me, but now I'd like to try modifying my water.
> 
> I've looked through various water calculators, but they seem very complicated. Can anyone recommend a supplier of premixed salts to add to rainwater to make it suitable for brewing beers like Landlord, Hobgoblin, etc?
> 
> Otherwise I'm going to have do battle with all that chemistry and it makes my brain hurt.
> 
> Thanks guys


Try this as a starting point.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Dead simple, and AJ deLange knows his stuff.


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## nathan_madness

I've been told that if you have a steel roof and tank it can be even better for brewing adding essential zinc for the yeast. Personally I brew with 100% R/O and just add a bit of gypsum and or salt.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Basically rain water is good. Used it for years. Did the whole gypsum thing but just stuck with straight rainwater. 

It does make a great base line to work from


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## Ducatiboy stu

Oh....and if you want to play water chem you are better off having a seperate small tank to add your salts to...let them sit for a while and do their thing.


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## Britboozer

Thanks, felten - that's a very interesting thread. Though I haven't read all 51 pages of it yet!! Also to Ducatiboy (I'm a Honda man myself) & Nathan for yours.

Ultimately I guess it's down to what your beer tastes like to you. So I'll try a few additions & do some tasting. No - LOTS of tasting.


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## mosto

Been brewing kits, and now extract for about 18 months and we only have rainwater. I'm really happy with the majority of the beers I produce, and the couple of ordinary ones I can put down to brewer error rather than water issues. Never boil it before hand either. After drinking rainwater regularly, you really start to pick up on some odd tastes in town and city water, so even if I had access to both, I think I'd still use rainwater.

That being said, I'm about to move into the world of All Grain and, while I'll spend the first few brews getting my head around mashing and getting to know my equipment, I'll probably look at what additions I can make once I'm comfortable with the whole process.


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## Droopy

I guess rainwater doesn't have fish poo and piss in it... Hahahaha
I have only ever used tap water run through a filter and its been great!
Like what one of the other guys said, if its good to drink it will be good to brew with


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## Greg.L

I have been on rainwater 18 years, never had any trouble with brewing beer. People who say to boil it before adding to a kit don't understand microbiology - beer spoilage micro-organisms are not water-borne, you don't need to boil it. If it is safe to drink it is safe to brew with.

I usually use my dam water for brewing, the turtle piss gives it that extra bit of flavour.


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## sponge

Greg.L said:


> I usually use my dam water for brewing, the turtle piss gives it that extra bit of flavour.


Do many VB clones?


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## Droopy

sponge said:


> Do many VB clones?


Yum... Vagina Backwash

~ smiley faces don't seem to agree with me,


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## sponge

Droopy said:


> Yum... Vagina Backwash
> 
> ~ smiley faces don't seem to agree with me,


 :icon_vomit:



??


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## Toper

I'll agree that if it's safe to drink it's safe to brew with,but..


Droopy said:


> I guess rainwater doesn't have fish poo and piss in it... Hahahaha
> I have only ever used tap water run through a filter and its been great!
> Like what one of the other guys said, if its good to drink it will be good to brew with


No,but birds poo and piss on your roof.




Greg.L said:


> I have been on rainwater 18 years, never had any trouble with brewing beer. People who say to boil it before adding to a kit don't understand microbiology - beer spoilage micro-organisms are not water-borne, you don't need to boil it. If it is safe to drink it is safe to brew with.
> 
> I usually use my dam water for brewing, the turtle piss gives it that extra bit of flavour.


I'm got rain water if I need,but I'm on an orchard and there's spray drift,the spouting is full of crap like most ppl's,and the tank is an old corrugated iron one full of rust.I'll stick to bore water.It mightn't make a difference to boil for brewing,but there can be a bacterial health risk for normal drinking if a water tank isn't maintained correctly.I'd still filter it for brewing,my 2c


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## warra48

I use rainwater, and modify it to suit the style I'm brewing.
However, I'm in an area where there is no airborne industrial crap, so it's' fairly pure.
Equally, when my beers were made with tap water and, again, modified to suit, it also worked well.

I brew AG, and it all gets boiled for at least an hour minimum.
If you are adding it to a kit, I'd take heed of the warnings posted so far.


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## Maxt

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Oh....and if you want to play water chem you are better off having a seperate small tank to add your salts to...let them sit for a while and do their thing.


I have not heard this before DS, could you explain?


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## Ducatiboy stu

Allows time for the various salts to fully disolve and combine


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## Greg.L

warra48 said:


> I brew AG, and it all gets boiled for at least an hour minimum.
> If you are adding it to a kit, I'd take heed of the warnings posted so far.


When I do all grain I make it at a higher sg so it easier too cool, then after it has cooled I can dilute it with some cold water to bring down to pitching temperature. If you boil water when you don't need to you are just making the cooling stage harder. If boiling everything makes you feel safer then that is ok, but you shouldn't feel you have to.

Greg


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## Ducatiboy stu

Just want to.add that the person who told me about having a seperate tank to allow salts etc has Phd in chem eng.....how we got onto water chem I have no idea.......we was drinking and the subject of beer came up.......


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## Maxt

I ALWAYS boil water. Tap water to drive off chlorine, tank water to kill any possible larvae and other nasties, (because I don't regularly drink my tank water, just used for gardening). But yes, if you regularly drink it and have no ill effects it should be fine. Bigger question, other than having to wait a little while longer for cooling, what's wrong with some added peace of mind by boiling?


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## Maxt

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Just want to.add that the person who told me about having a seperate tank to allow salts etc has Phd in chem eng.....how we got onto water chem I have no idea.......we was drinking and the subject of beer came up.......


I tend to let salts combine in tun as mash water is heating up in tun, this seems to work. Thanks for the info DS.


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## Droopy

Maxt said:


> I ALWAYS boil water. Tap water to drive off chlorine, tank water to kill any possible larvae and other nasties, (because I don't regularly drink my tank water, just used for gardening). But yes, if you regularly drink it and have no ill effects it should be fine. Bigger question, other than having to wait a little while longer for cooling, what's wrong with some added peace of mind by boiling?


Tis all about doing what makes you feel comfortable that your brew will turn out good,


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## Greg.L

There is a fair bit of energy involved in boiling, water has a high specific heat, so that will be expense. For a whole 20L kit or extract brew you are talking a lot of unnecessary energy and cooling time. Also it is good to understand the principles behind brewing rather than acting because of unfounded fears. But there is no harm in boiling the water apart from that.


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## Maxt

True Greg, if energy and expense is an issue...I spend far more on my beers than if I would, If I could only stomach drinking a slab of VB.

The other downside for a kit brewer with boiling is that you have removed some of the oxygen in the water, so it is important to aerate when adding your cold.


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## shaunous

Nibbo said:


> Although over summer having no rain down here (SW VIC) for months we developed a good amount of H2S (hydrogen Sulphide) in there (due to not being stirred up which helps introduce oxygen to the water). Apparently the missus doesn't enjoy the taste and smell of rotten egg. Doesn't pose a risk unless i'm planning on entering the tank. Can kill you in a confined space if theres enough to displace the oxygen around you. Thinking of setting up a solar fountain pump in the tank to keep it aerated.
> 
> Other than the smell and odour issue, no problems with using rain water for brewing.


Thats F*#ked up...

I brew with tankwater as its fresher then my mains water, which from the tap gives a brown glass of water. Its to dirty to filter, i'd be changing filters everyday, we still drink and shower with it, but the tank water is there for back up and homebrewing.


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## shaunous

Nibbo said:


> Although over summer having no rain down here (SW VIC) for months we developed a good amount of H2S (hydrogen Sulphide) in there (due to not being stirred up which helps introduce oxygen to the water). Apparently the missus doesn't enjoy the taste and smell of rotten egg. Doesn't pose a risk unless i'm planning on entering the tank. Can kill you in a confined space if theres enough to displace the oxygen around you. Thinking of setting up a solar fountain pump in the tank to keep it aerated.
> 
> Other than the smell and odour issue, no problems with using rain water for brewing.


Thats F*#ked up...

I brew with tankwater as its fresher then my mains water, which from the tap gives a brown glass of water. Its to dirty to filter, i'd be changing filters everyday, we still drink and shower with it, but the tank water is there for back up and homebrewing.


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## sp0rk

I'm considering switching to rainwater for my brews, but living in the middle of coal mining country, I'm a little worried about water chemistry
Has anyone up this way used rainwater before?


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## Ducatiboy stu

sp0rk said:


> I'm considering switching to rainwater for my brews, but living in the middle of coal mining country, I'm a little worried about water chemistry
> Has anyone up this way used rainwater before?


Ironically, Anthracite ( a form of coal ) is used in water filtration plants


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## bradsbrew

Better in your water, than in your lungs?


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## sp0rk

I'll tell you what, after living here for a year now, I'm only just getting used to the sulphury smell
No one believes me that the whole town smells like farts until they visit us...


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## sp0rk

This paper seems to suggest it shouldn't be a problem
http://www.tomfarrellinstitute.org/uploads/2/3/7/3/23738054/coal_dust_paper_2009.pdf


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## Ducatiboy stu

sp0rk said:


> I'll tell you what, after living here for a year now, I'm only just getting used to the sulphury smell
> No one believes me that the whole town smells like farts until they visit us...


It still smelt like rotten egg gas even after 7 years when I lived there


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## Pidgeot

Much of the water used in the brewing process doesn’t go into the beer itself. It’s used to cool the hot wort and clean the brewing tanks. At Block 15 in Corvails, Oregon, they catch and store excess water and reuse it in the cooling process on the next brewing day. They also use a closed-loop system to clean their tanks – treating the water and using it again. It takes a lot of water to produce a glass of beer, but from rainwater beer to other water reclamation efforts, breweries are doing a lot to reduce their water footprints.


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## sp0rk

Ok...


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## mtb

sp0rk said:


> I'll tell you what, after living here for a year now, I'm only just getting used to the sulphury smell
> No one believes me that the whole town smells like farts until they visit us...


Suddenly "Mayor of Pooptown" makes so much more sense


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## crowmanz

Should rainwater be considered similar to RO or distilled for mineral additions?

I have access to rainwater and am considering it for some lighter beers I have planned.


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## evoo4u

sp0rk said:


> No one believes me that the whole town smells like farts until they visit us...


And they fall for the old "it's the water, not us" story do they...


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