# US05 for a Lager?



## Smotgon

morning guys hope this is in the right section..I Hada brew day yesterday with 
jacks crown lager kit 
1 pack US05
1x can
500gms dextrose
1kg DME
& jacks blonde kit Same ingredients 
Label of both kits recommend fermentation temps @ 18c ???
Reading here from you more experienced Brewers 
All lagers should be fermented at 12c right?
My question is will this yeast be ok at 12c if I wind back the temp now or will it just **** up my batches?
Cheers


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Lowest I did US05 is at 15 degrees. 

Was judged as a lager and placed in comp a few years back.


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## Smotgon

Ok cool so it will still be an ok lager fermented at 15c it's my first lager and I've got no idea lol


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## Rocker1986

12 is too low for that yeast, better off around 15/16 degrees. 

I've done one batch of a regular lager recipe with US-05 at 16 degrees and while it was quite close, it didn't have the exact same flavor profile as the recipe fermented with a lager yeast. 

It won't **** up the beer though, you'll still end up with a nice clean lager.


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## Smotgon

Great thanks for the info I stepped up the temp from 16.2c to 17c this morning over an hr...it was bubbling away nicely @ 16.2c but when I checked them at 17c both FV are not bubbling at all now!! I see yeast does not like temp fluctuations much 0.8 degree just stops them in there work?? I'm going to let the FV cool by them selfs now back to 16c and lock that temp in I think...


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## captain crumpet

You can use dry lager strain w34/70 at ale temps with lager results. Us05 always leaves evidence of being an ale IMO


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## Smotgon

I probably should of just used the yeast pack that came with the kit I guess...I wanted to use a better yeast strain and the HBS guy suggested US05 to pitch it with so I took his word for it.


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## Rocker1986

By bubbling are you referring to the airlock or the brew itself? Letting it rise 0.8 degrees won't stop fermentation, it's actually reasonably common for brewers to allow the temp to rise a few degrees nearing the end of fermentation.


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## Smotgon

Yeah the airlock it was bubbling and now it's not could it be the air temp inside the FV expanded and pushed air out and now it's cooling it's not???


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## Danscraftbeer

To be correct your brewing an Ale. The HBS guy just recommended the more basic option to brew a decent beer.
best kept at 18c IMO. I have pushed the limits on low temp for us-05 like starting at 15c then crept up to 19 at the end but I wasnt too pleased with the result maybe the yeast was a bit stressed to work that cold. You really should use more yeast rate when at lower temps as well. eg. 2 packs.


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## Rocker1986

Smotgon said:


> Yeah the airlock it was bubbling and now it's not could it be the air temp inside the FV expanded and pushed air out and now it's cooling it's not???


It's possible, but don't take any notice of the airlock, what's happened here is a perfect example of why they are pretty unreliable for monitoring fermentation. Other times there's a leaky seal that causes no bubbling, which mine had.

It will still be fermenting, it should have a layer of foam on top and condensation on the underside of the lid. Give it a few days then check the gravity with a hydrometer. That will tell you how far along it is with much more certainty.


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## Bribie G

I've used various ale yeasts to do fake lagers and at the end of the day with dried yeasts, my absolute favourite is Mangrove Jack's New World Strong Ale. Surprisingly. 
Ferment at around 15 to reduce any ester formation.


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## hirschb

Yeah, S-05 is an ale yeast. By definition, you're brewing an ale, not a lager. I'm not aware of any ale yeast that can be brewed at cooler, lager temps.
However, you can brew some lager yeasts at ale temps (and there is a beer style called Steam Beer or California Common that uses this method).
In the future, go with W-34-70. You can fermented a bit warm and it still comes out great: http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/18/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/


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## wereprawn

I've used Nottingham Ale yeast @ 13 c with no problems. Makes a clean Lager-like beer and ferments out in around 5 days at that temp. In fact, if I'm using a big yeast slurry, I have to keep it below 15c or it escapes the fermentor every time.


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## technobabble66

For future reference, S-189 is also a true lager strain that can ferment at high temps. 
I generally run mine at 17-18*C, then lager for 2-3 weeks. The several I've done have all turned out great.


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## 2cranky

wereprawn said:


> I've used Nottingham Ale yeast @ 13 c with no problems. Makes a clean Lager-like beer and ferments out in around 5 days at that temp. In fact, if I'm using a big yeast slurry, I have to keep it below 15c or it escapes the fermentor every time.


Yeah, that yeast is a monster. The one time I used it it was like a volcano science experiment. Erupting every few seconds out the blow off bottle all over the inside of the fridge. I had about 8-9 litres of headspace too.
Massive mess to clean up later.


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## SergeMarx

I've done it with good results at 15c. As mentioned above, a bigger pitch is needed, but I found the end result (a pilsner) quite good. Would it have won comps for style? No. Was it super clean and easy drinking? Absolutely. While it's true (ish) that you're brewing an ale , the real point of a lager is the long cool conditioning post ferment. If you can do that, you'll find your cool ferment ale has more in common with a lager by the end


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## SergeMarx

2cranky said:


> Yeah, that yeast is a monster. The one time I used it it was like a volcano science experiment. Erupting every few seconds out the blow off bottle all over the inside of the fridge. I had about 8-9 litres of headspace too.
> Massive mess to clean up later.



My Notto experience is GO to WOAH! to SLOW to NO


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## Lionman

technobabble66 said:


> For future reference, S-189 is also a true lager strain that can ferment at high temps.
> I generally run mine at 17-18*C, then lager for 2-3 weeks. The several I've done have all turned out great.



I have one in the fridge at the moment. Fermented at about 16c at 20psi with S189. It tastes a bit funky to me but maybe it just needs a bit more time.

Bit worried its DMS as it is 80% pilsner malt, but not exactly sure what that would taste like.


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## mugley

Lionman said:


> I have one in the fridge at the moment. Fermented at about 16c at 20psi with S189. It tastes a bit funky to me but maybe it just needs a bit more time.
> 
> Bit worried its DMS as it is 80% pilsner malt, but not exactly sure what that would taste like.


DMS is usually creamed corn, sometimes a bit cabbagey. S189 can chuck a bit of sulfur - if it smells a bit farty and a bit car exhaust, it'll need a little time for the sulfur to dissipate. Fermented at 16c it should eventually end up pretty clean.


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## Lionman

mugley said:


> DMS is usually creamed corn, sometimes a bit cabbagey. S189 can chuck a bit of sulfur - if it smells a bit farty and a bit car exhaust, it'll need a little time for the sulfur to dissipate. Fermented at 16c it should eventually end up pretty clean.



I'd need to taste it again to try to describe the flavour. 'Shitty beer' taste is about all i can manage right now. I've been sampling 100ml each week and it is def getting better. First week it was nasty.


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## Batz

wereprawn said:


> I've used Nottingham Ale yeast @ 13 c with no problems. Makes a clean Lager-like beer and ferments out in around 5 days at that temp. In fact, if I'm using a big yeast slurry, I have to keep it below 15c or it escapes the fermentor every time.




Taking me back now wereprawn.
I used Nottingham for several years going back 10-12 years. I always fermented at 14c. I have a few gold medals as proof.
Time I used the old friend again, you can't beat it in an Altbier.
CraftBrewer once did it in their repackaged yeasts, what happened there? I stopped buying it????


Batz


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## rude

I dont mind the nottingham at 18c in an APA
Pressure fermented though
Its not bad low with a kolsch grain bill


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## wereprawn

Batz said:


> Taking me back now wereprawn.
> I used Nottingham for several years going back 10-12 years. I always fermented at 14c. I have a few gold medals as proof.
> Time I used the old friend again, you can't beat it in an Altbier.
> CraftBrewer once did it in their repackaged yeasts, what happened there? I stopped buying it????
> 
> 
> Batz


It always gets a good workout during the warmer months here. Altbier is something I've never tried Notto with Batz. I'll definitely give it a go. Cheers for the tip.


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## Lionman

mugley said:


> DMS is usually creamed corn, sometimes a bit cabbagey. S189 can chuck a bit of sulfur - if it smells a bit farty and a bit car exhaust, it'll need a little time for the sulfur to dissipate. Fermented at 16c it should eventually end up pretty clean.




Just sampled it. Definately DMS. The beer in the line was worse. I pulled a second small sample and it was better so it looks like it should subside with some more time.


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## manticle

Clean those lines.
Then pour a beer and do a vdk test.

If dms worsens with time, it can be indicative of infection.

If it isn't infection based, it can be scrubbed with co2.


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## Danscraftbeer

vdk test?


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## manticle

Danscraftbeer said:


> vdk test?




Shit error. VDK (vicinal diketone) is for diacetyl and 2-3 pentanidione, not DMS.

Rest stands

So Forget VDK test but do clean the lines and re-sample. If the DMS is heavy, look at scrubbing with CO2. If it's due to infection, drink quickly or toss because it will only get worse.


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## fungrel

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/diacetyl-test.html


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## manticle

The downblouse brew chemist was both a welcome surprise and a not quite SFW surprise.


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## Lionman

I always thought that the beer in the keg is likely to improve a lot faster than that in the line. To be hones I'm not sure of my reasoning for this though.

I might try the CO2 scrubbing.


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## Cervantes

Maybe a bit late for this input, but my local U-Brew it only use two yeasts for everything. A Cider yeast and S-04. S-04 for lagers, bitters apa's and everything except cider. 

And to be fair I've tried their lager in an emergency and it's pretty good.


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## fletcher

technobabble66 said:


> For future reference, S-189 is also a true lager strain that can ferment at high temps.
> I generally run mine at 17-18*C, then lager for 2-3 weeks. The several I've done have all turned out great.



any sulphur or fruitiness at all at those temps?

edit: answered in the more recent posts. no worries!


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## shacked

For pseudo-lagers I echo those who have recommended notto. I've also had good results from WY2565 - Kolsch yeast at around 13C.


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## technobabble66

fletcher said:


> any sulphur or fruitiness at all at those temps?
> 
> edit: answered in the more recent posts. no worries!



None that I detect. 
Could probably go a fraction cleaner for a super dry Lager finish, but for a regular dry finish it seems to do a good job. 
Whether a super dry finish requires simply a lower temp or a different strain I'm not sure - my lager experience is limited to 7 batches so far. 
Next winter I'll use S-189 again, run the first batch at 17-18*C to build up the yeast cake, then try running it at 14*C for subsequent batches. See if that makes a difference. 

Fwiw, there's also mangrove jack's California Lager M54 strain - it's intended to ferment at 18*C. 

Just out of interest, why would you use ale yeasts at 14-15*C for a faux lager, when you could use S-189 or M54 at 16-18*C for a real lager, which you can then lager properly for a few weeks and have the real deal?
Not trying to take the piss, a real question. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. 
I can only assume the 2+ weeks of lagering at 0-4*C is too much hassle for some. 

I've only done 1 faux lager, with Notto at 14-15*C. Ok, but definitely a *faux* lager. As a result of that one, I decided to try S-189 the next winter. 2 years later, never looked back.


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## fletcher

technobabble66 said:


> None that I detect.
> Could probably go a fraction cleaner for a super dry Lager finish, but for a regular dry finish it seems to do a good job.
> Whether a super dry finish requires simply a lower temp or a different strain I'm not sure - my lager experience is limited to 7 batches so far.
> Next winter I'll use S-189 again, run the first batch at 17-18*C to build up the yeast cake, then try running it at 14*C for subsequent batches. See if that makes a difference.
> 
> Fwiw, there's also mangrove jack's California Lager M54 strain - it's intended to ferment at 18*C.
> 
> Just out of interest, why would you use ale yeasts at 14-15*C for a faux lager, when you could use S-189 or M54 at 16-18*C for a real lager, which you can then lager properly for a few weeks and have the real deal?
> Not trying to take the piss, a real question. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
> I can only assume the 2+ weeks of lagering at 0-4*C is too much hassle for some.
> 
> I've only done 1 faux lager, with Notto at 14-15*C. Ok, but definitely a *faux* lager. As a result of that one, I decided to try S-189 the next winter. 2 years later, never looked back.



for me, a super dry finish is due to mash temp being a bit lower like about 62-63ish (and the subsequent final gravity being lower about 1.002-5 or so). pair this with yeast strains that have high attenuation or are known for their 'crispness'.

speaking from my own experience, and before i started making real lagers, i was just too impatient to wait for the lagering period. i made lower fermented ales to get a beer similar to a lager.


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