# Mac's Sassy Red



## brendanos (29/12/06)

I recently tasted a brew brought back from New Zealand from the Mac's brewery called "Sassy Red", a Hoppy Best Bitter, and upon recieving some Nelson Sauvin flowers from a friend today, decided to try something similar. Just found these very helpful notes on their website:

Malt Grist: Pilsner, caramalt, crystal, dark crystal, chocolate malt
Hop Grist: Saaz
Original Gravity: 11.7oP
Final Gravity: 3.30oP
Alcohol: 4.5%
pH: 3.95
Bitterness (EBU): 30
Colour (EBC): 48
Maturation: 2 weeks
Brewers Tasting Notes:	The marriage of 5 malts imparts a nutty, biscuity characteristic. Combined with fruity esters produced during a high temperature fermentation makes a complex beer balance by a huge saaz explosion.


So far I've been thinking about...

73% Weyermann Pils
10% Bairds Amber
10% Weyermann Carared
4% Weyermann Caraamber
2% Weyermann Caraaroma
1% Bairds Roast Barley

OG 1.047

Hopping to 40IBU with B Saaz and Nelson Sauvin and considerable flavour/aroma/dry hopping.

Has anyone tried brewing red beers? What's the most effective way you have achieved a bright red colour? I'm considering a bit of melanoidin in there aswell. Haven't punched this into promash yet so not sure what the colour's like.

Will this be malty enough to balance the bitterness? Will I get "biscuity, nutty" flavours from any of the crystal malts? Mash temp? Anyone want to have a crack at a recipe? This is a rough sketch, so any ideas/comments/critiques would be appreciated!

Thanks guys.


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## jaytee (2/1/07)

It's awhile since I've seen the ingredients listed - the beer and the website have both had a makeover since then - but there was only B Saaz then, no Sauvin.

I'd drop the roast barley and replace with 0.5% chocolate

Hope it goes well

Cheers, jaytee


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## sam (2/1/07)

Hard grain bill to get spot on.

I think the roast barley will give a better red colour than chocolate, so I'd keep it in. That should take care of most of your red, with the crystals giving a bit, but mostly flavour.

Might back off on the amber a bit though. Could end up overly malty. That said, melanoidin wouldn't go astray, maybe < 5%.

Mash it lowish, it was quite dry.

Maybe try it with 1028? Something cleanish.

It was a pretty damn good beer, I remember Dave Logsdon singing its praises when he was in Melbourne. I had a couple of six packs when I was in NZ. It's got a lot of sass, that's for sure. Cool bottle too.

Well, good luck.

sam


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## brendanos (2/1/07)

jaytee said:


> It's awhile since I've seen the ingredients listed - the beer and the website have both had a makeover since then - but there was only B Saaz then, no Sauvin.



Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just saaz too, but I'm still keen to try the two together.




sam said:


> Hard grain bill to get spot on.
> 
> I think the roast barley will give a better red colour than chocolate, so I'd keep it in. That should take care of most of your red, with the crystals giving a bit, but mostly flavour.
> 
> ...



Yeah I tried the 3 Ravens Bronze yesterday, which i've heard derives a lot of it's flavour from amber malt, and decided to leave it out. Too much brown colour/malt flavour. Going to brew it this weekend. Second draft...

80% Weyermann Pils
11% Weyermann Carared
4% Weyermann Caraamber
2% Weyermann Caraaroma
2% Weyermann Melanoidin
1% Bairds Roast Barley

1028 sounds like a good choice, i presume 20-22ish would be the desired range for some fruity esters. If 1469 (west yorkshire cask ale) is available by the weekend I might give that a shot.


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## brendanos (8/1/07)

In search of the right malts for colouring this beer, I did a (hardly comprehensive) test of some malts I thought might be of use to me, adding 10 grams (cracked) of each to a cup of warm (75c) water to see which provided the reddest hues. I compared Weyermann's Carared, Caraamber and Caraaroma, Joe White Medium Crystal, Bairds Medium Crystal, Bairds Roast Barley and Weyermann Carafa Special III. Here are the results of my not-so-scientific experiment.

Of the Weyermann, caraamber produced no noticible red tones, only (surprisingly) amber, and was quite a lot paler than carared, despite (if i remember rightly) having a darker colour rating. Carared was a little red, though not as much as I would have presumed, and in this quantity did not provide a very dark or intense colour. Both the JW and Bairds crystal's produced a much redder, deeper colour than the carared, with the JW appearing darker, though the intensity of red in both relative to the darkness was probably about the same. The Caraaroma was much darker than the other crystal's with ruby-mahogany tones, and no noticible brown tones, so i presume quite useful in colouring a red. The last two (b roast, w csIII) I tested to decided which would be best for colour adjustment, and as 10gm produced a very dark glass, required a lot of dilution. Both appeared to contribute an amber-brown colour, neither showing much trace of red, though the weyermann seemed a whole lot darker for the same metered dilution.

So based on these findings I ditched the caraamber and replaced it with bairds xxx, as although the colour of the jw might have been slightly more effective, I think the flavour of the bairds is superior. Also ditched bairds roast barley or weyermann, as neither seemed to make a red colour, and the carafa special seemed a more efficient option.

I brewed this today:


83% Weyermann Pils
3% Weyermann Melanoidin
8% Weyermann Carared
3% Bairds Crystal
2% Weyermann Caraaroma
1% Weyermann Carafa Special III

Anticipated OG 1.047 in 23L
Actual OG 1.056 in 21L
Anticipated EBC 36.6

15g B Saaz 6.7% for 30 mins
10g B Saaz 6.7% for 15 mins
15g Nelson Sauvin (flowers) 12.2% for 15 mins
10g B Saaz 6.7% for 12 mins
10g Nelson Sauvin 12.2% for 12 mins
10g B Saaz 6.7% for 9 mins 
10g Nelson Sauvin 12.2% for 9 mins
10g B Saaz 6.7% for 6 mins
10g Nelson Sauvin 12.2% for 6 mins
10g B Saaz 6.7% for 3 mins
10g Nelson Sauvin 12.2% for 3 mins
10g B Saaz 6.7% for 0 mins
15g Nelson Sauvin (flowers) 12.2% for 0 mins

Will dry hop in secondary with:
10g B Saaz 6.7%
20g Nelson Sauvin (flowers) 12.2%

Haven't checked bitterness with new specs since the brew, so for now assuming approx 40.

Mashed at approx 65 and fermenting with 1028 at 20ish.

Will report back regarding the colour of the beer in a few weeks for future AHB reference. I don't want to get my hopes up but so far it's looking quite red, though maybe a little dark. Promash shows this beer being lighter than Mac's, but I'll believe that when I see it. And in the end even if the colour ends up way off, the hops will have made it worthwhile.

Cheers.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (30/8/07)

brendanos,

how did your Sassy attempt turn out.

I reckon this is one of the better beers available here in Australia and I am keen to give it a go myself but perhaps using D Saaz.

C&B
TDA


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## jayse (2/10/07)

Evening trendsetters.

Brought a box of this the other day to sit and enjoy while watching the grand final, at least the beer was good :lol: 

Actually the beer is fantastic. Can give it a big thumbs up for drinakblity too as there wasn't much left of the box sunday morning.



brendanos said:


> Just found these very helpful notes on their website:
> 
> Colour (EBC): 48



That number looks a bit high, more like 28 I would think




jaytee said:


> I'd drop the roast barley and replace with 0.5% chocolate



I'd be looking at using choc instead myself aswell




sam said:


> Hard grain bill to get spot on.
> 
> I think the roast barley will give a better red colour than chocolate, so I'd keep it in. That should take care of most of your red, with the crystals giving a bit, but mostly flavour.



Good point about the red colour, still I'am thinking choc malt though, Damn right on the hard to get spot on with the malt bill I would think. There a lovely dark crystal aroma off raisens and toffee. The crystal does give more than just a bit though i'd say its the main part but it is very rounded and lovely. Not cloying at all or anything.



sam said:


> Might back off on the amber a bit though. Could end up overly malty. That said, melanoidin wouldn't go astray, maybe < 5%.]



Yeah I don't think you'd want any amber in this beer, can't pick any of that type of character in there



sam said:


> Mash it lowish, it was quite dry.
> 
> Maybe try it with 1028? Something cleanish.



Yeap the lowish mash temp and 1028 sounds pretty spot on. Although theres quite a few yeast options that would work quite well. Almost what ever british ale yeast that you have on the go would do well. It is very clean though and not much yeast fruit character, the fruit is more the dark dried fruits/ fruit cake like to a degree from the darker crystal. Saying that its not over the top at all though, actually its almost perfect.




brendanos said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just saaz too, but I'm still keen to try the two together.
> Yeah I tried the 3 Ravens Bronze yesterday, which i've heard derives a lot of it's flavour from amber malt, and decided to leave it out. Too much brown colour/malt flavour. Going to brew it this weekend. Second draft...
> 
> 80% Weyermann Pils
> ...



That recipe is looking pretty good although I'am not familar with caraamber so not sure there and its adding up to 17% crystal all up which I think is a bit over board. Certainly the carared and caraaroma I think is a great choice.



brendanos said:


> In search of the right malts for colouring this beer, I did a (hardly comprehensive) test of some malts I thought might be of use to me, adding 10 grams (cracked) of each to a cup of warm (75c) water to see which provided the reddest hues. I compared Weyermann's Carared, Caraamber and Caraaroma, Joe White Medium Crystal, Bairds Medium Crystal, Bairds Roast Barley and Weyermann Carafa Special III. Here are the results of my not-so-scientific experiment.
> 
> Of the Weyermann, caraamber produced no noticible red tones, only (surprisingly) amber, and was quite a lot paler than carared, despite (if i remember rightly) having a darker colour rating. Carared was a little red, though not as much as I would have presumed, and in this quantity did not provide a very dark or intense colour. Both the JW and Bairds crystal's produced a much redder, deeper colour than the carared, with the JW appearing darker, though the intensity of red in both relative to the darkness was probably about the same. The Caraaroma was much darker than the other crystal's with ruby-mahogany tones, and no noticible brown tones, so i presume quite useful in colouring a red. The last two (b roast, w csIII) I tested to decided which would be best for colour adjustment, and as 10gm produced a very dark glass, required a lot of dilution. Both appeared to contribute an amber-brown colour, neither showing much trace of red, though the weyermann seemed a whole lot darker for the same metered dilution.
> 
> So based on these findings I ditched the caraamber and replaced it with bairds xxx, as although the colour of the jw might have been slightly more effective, I think the flavour of the bairds is superior. Also ditched bairds roast barley or weyermann, as neither seemed to make a red colour, and the carafa special seemed a more efficient option.



Thats a awesome little of stuff right there, top work.




brendanos said:


> I brewed this today:
> 83% Weyermann Pils
> 3% Weyermann Melanoidin
> 8% Weyermann Carared
> ...



So as TDA asked, whats the verdict?


At only 50 bucks a box I'll be going back for more and hopefully have some more too offer than the ranting i just posted anyway back to you guys..........


Boozed, broozed & broken boned.
Jayse


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## tangent (2/10/07)

i'm keen to head over to NZ and try a heap of fresh beer because I'm loving the imports!


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## warrenlw63 (2/10/07)

Tried this myself last week. Great value for $15 per six pack. The Hoprocker ain't half bad either. :beerbang: 

Bottles are a nostalgia trip also. Those ring pulls remind me of old Coopers stubbies. 

Warren -


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## Jazman (2/10/07)

some good micros over there also a lot of crap will be over again in just over a years time also then u can bring back cheap hops via nz hopsget em to deliver to last point of call then declare to customs easy as


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## warrenlw63 (22/11/07)

Just a bump on this one.

I'm contemplating an approximation of this beer. Has anybody done anything worthy of the real thing?

The burning question is do they use NZ or Czech Saaz hops? I'm thinking of trying it with B Saaz. Also curious about the IBUs. I was thinking around 35.

Any ideas are openly accepted.  

Warren -


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## jaytee (22/11/07)

Czech Saaz Warren ! How could they ? 

I thought it was B

Try this for useful hints on the grist though http://www.thebrewerybar.co.nz/sassy-red/

cheers, jaytee


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## warrenlw63 (22/11/07)

Thanks Jaytee

Yeah I read that... Funny part is on their other beers if they use NZ hops they stipulate it. I'd be thinking of B Saaz myself though.

Only real sticking point I'm having is the conversion of EBUs to IBUs. I was thinking around 35 IBUs would be close enough.

Warren -


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## Stuster (22/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Only real sticking point I'm having is the conversion of EBUs to IBUs. I was thinking around 35 IBUs would be close enough.



EBU and IBU are the same I think.

I always assumed they were B Saaz hops, but not sure. Have to do some more research.  

What yeast were you thinking of using?


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## jaytee (22/11/07)

I failed miserably in attempting to brew a close replica so ignore anything else I say about the beer in question !

In the end I just adapted the failed recipe to my tastes for a light quaffing ale
Dropped the OG to 1.040 and IBU's to the low 20's but with a truckload of B Saaz at 5 or 10 minutes


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## warrenlw63 (22/11/07)

Stuster said:


> EBU and IBU are the same I think.
> 
> I always assumed they were B Saaz hops, but not sure. Have to do some more research.
> 
> What yeast were you thinking of using?



Thanks Stu... Almost certain that's what I'll use. Looking like 30 IBUs then.  

As for yeast? Probably US-05 for now. Though I was contemplating something a little more English in Character. Might even use Wyeast 1028. Not too sure yet.

Warren -


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## jaytee (22/11/07)

I usually brew my version with W1968 .. but my closer attempt was with W1028 .. but take my comments lightly ..



> I failed miserably in attempting to brew a close replica so ignore anything else I say about the beer in question !


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## warrenlw63 (22/11/07)

My first draft. Open to interpretation though.  

Slutty Red

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

08-B English Pale Ale, Special/Best/Premium Bitter

Min OG: 1.040 Max OG: 1.048
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 40
Min Clr: 12 Max Clr: 41 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 45.00 Wort Size (L): 45.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.50
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.93
Anticipated EBC: 37.9
Anticipated IBU: 31.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.1 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special III Germany 1.035 1748
1.6 0.15 kg. Bairds Dark Crystal UK 1.034 250
2.6 0.25 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 470
10.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 19
42.1 4.00 kg. BB Pale Malt Australia 1.037 3
42.1 4.00 kg. BB Ale Malt Australia 1.038 8

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 25.6 60 min.
30.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 0.0 Dry Hop
20.00 g. B Saaz  Whole 7.70 1.7 5 min.
30.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 0.0 0 min.
20.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 2.0 10 min.
30.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 2.6 5 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast US-05 American Ale
or Wyeast 1028 London Ale

Warren -


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## jaytee (22/11/07)

That grainbill is pretty similar to what I've done in the past - though I have been using the bog standard bairds medium & dark crystal & chocolate.

I started adding upto 5% wheat when I brewed as an extract & grains.
Not true to the orignal and probably not needed in an AG either, but it made a big difference in an extract beer.
I also brewed it as my first AG but with MO - a good beer - but nowhere near what I was expecting and I was bitterly disapointed.

Not sure about the hops, my balance is more like 60% IBUs at 60 min and 40% at the 10 or 5 min mark - but that's my preference only, not a comment on Sassy Red. 

Over to others with a better handle on the beer on the hops count anyway.

cheers, jaytee


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## barneyhanway (22/11/07)

I'd always thought it was New Zealand D Saaz (now called "Riwaka") they used in Sassy Red...


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## Jye (22/11/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 50.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 25.6 60 min.
> 30.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 0.0 Dry Hop
> ...



2 5min additions... thats hard core


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## warrenlw63 (22/11/07)

Oh bugger. Rushed that I think. Might just double the 5 min addition. :lol: 

Warren -


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## jaytee (22/11/07)

Always thought it was B Barry so a quick google on realbeer brought up an article by Neil from 2006

"It is has a smooth mouthfeel with hints of caramel, nuttiness and oranges before a lovely intense finish from the Saaz B hops which helped inspire the name."

What do you reckon to Warrens hop schedule then Barry - any pointers ?

cheers, jaytee

Edit - I must admit that either of B or D would be excellent !


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## warrenlw63 (22/11/07)

Jye said:


> 2 5min additions... thats hard core



Hops amended. Not sure what I'm on half the time.  

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 25.6 60 min.
10.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 1.4 15 min.
20.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 2.0 10 min.
30.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 2.6 5 min.
40.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 0.0 0 min.
30.00 g. B Saaz Whole 7.70 0.0 Dry Hop


Warren -


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## ohitsbrad (22/11/07)

I emailed Macs in September. I asked whether they use D Saaz or B Saaz and they replied B Saaz only. (About time we started calling it Motueka too!) Some of the specs have already been posted but this is what I got in my response.

Stated grain bill as:
60% NZ Cellar malt
20% Australian caramalt
1.5% English chocolate malt - which is the only English malt used
And the rest is made up of two types of crystal malt.

30 EBU
41 EBC

Yeast is their own. They start fermenting at 15 deg and rise to 21 deg. Since the descripton on the website mentions some fruity esters, I plan on trying Wyeast 1028 as already suggested.

Could try it with all additions at 30mins and later since brendanos reported that bittering with Motueka was not so great.


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## pmolou (24/3/08)

any kit and extract recipes????


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## Pumpy (24/3/08)

Dont you just love that weyermanns Cara red wish I had a bag of it 


Pumpy


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## brendanos (20/5/08)

Pumpy said:


> Dont you just love that weyermanns Cara red wish I had a bag of it



Oh I do indeed!!

I realise that it was a little slack of me to never follow this thread up with results, so I guess it's better late than never.

The original recipe (5th post) I brewed posted turned out very dark, and in all ways "bigger" than the Macs, though it was an amazing beer in it's own right, and several tasters declared it the best beer they'd ever tasted. A real crowd pleaser, which was surprising based on how heavy it was. Very intense ripe stone fruit character with a faint roast note in the finish, very drinkable, though not befitting of any style so didn't do well in comps. The Nelson Sauvin definately overpowered the Motueka.

After discovering the Mac's was available commercially when I moved back to Perth I tasted thoroughly and revised my recipe, to brew the following...

80% JW Pils
10% JW Wheat
4% Cara Red
2% Cara Hell
1.5% JW Cara
1.5% JW Crystal
<1% Choc Wheat

Mashed 3L/kg at 66 (ph 5.2) to get 19L @ 1.054 into fermenter FG 1.014, dry hopped then diluted with 5L spring water to reach 4.7% abv (estimated OG/FG 1.042/1.011) or 5% carbonated.

Hopping was to 30IBU with...
20g Motueka (flowers) FWH
15g Motueka, 10g NS (pellets) 20mins
15g Motueka, 5g NS, 5g Cascade (pellets) 10 mins
15g Motueka, 5g NS, 5g Cascade (pellets) 1 mins
10g Motueka, 5g NS, 5g Cascade (pellets) DRY 5 days

Fermented with Safale S04 at 20C.

While closer in colour to the real deal, mine was definately sub-par, and while a drinkable pale ale, it was unpleasantly bitter (which I put down to that particular batch/season of Motueka - a character I also noted in similar vintages of other NZ beers like Emersons Pilsener and Mac's SR), and not quite dark/red enough. It smoothed out with age, and grew on me once I noticed the similarities with commercial examples, but was definately not how I wanted it. I didn't really like the S04 either.

And after all that I have a mild fermenting now on 1028 and plan to brew something much closer to my original recipe when the mild's done, as it was a ripper of a beer, regardless of it's mongrel-like nature!

Oh and thanks Brad for taking the initiative of actually asking the brewery.


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## brendanos (20/5/08)

pmolou said:


> any kit and extract recipes????



Based on Brad's reply from the brewery, I'm guessing you'd be looking at something like (can't really think of a k&k recipe, but...)

Extract and steeped grains (23L), something like...

2.5kg Coopers LME (or equivalent in DME)

Steeped specialty grains...
750gm Joe White Caramalt
50gm Bairds Chocolate
300gm Weyermann Carared
300gm Bairds Crystal
(the last two crystals could be substituted for your favourite crystals)

...and bittered to 30IBU with Motueka (or isohop) and flavoured with as much Motueka as you want.


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## pmolou (20/5/08)

cheers mate this looks tasty, i have also found a recipe for a red ale that looks promising (but haven't brewed yet) its yukons brewing company's artic red

can be found on the BYO replicator website 

not realy a new zealand style but could sub the goldings for b saaz as its around 30 iBU also

just for those also only up to extract brewing


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## ohitsbrad (1/10/08)

Had a go at brewing this a couple of months back. I tasted the real thing side by side with it on the weekend. To get it closer I think I would need much more hops in the flavour and aroma. Probably twice as much. But maybe 5 IBUs or so less bitter overall. The colour was OK. Next time I won't be afraid of going with only 60% base malt and the full 20% caramalt and remainder crystal, as Macs have stated they use. Wasn't too sweet. Although finished at only 1.014. This could be that I didn't pitch enough yeast or aerate. In fact maybe the most noticeable difference was that the real thing had a perceived honeyish sweetness in contrast. So I would consider a different yeast if I was to do it again too. Maybe Wyeast 1099 or 1318.

My recipe was:

OG 1.047
18 SRM
30 IBUs
23 litres
90 min boil

3.4kg Galaxy malt (69%)
800g BB caramalt (16%)
450g Bairds crystal (9%)
220g Bairds dark crystal (4.5%)
80g Bairds chocolate malt (1.5%)

Mash at 67 degrees.

20g Motueka (B Saaz) 60 mins 21 IBUs
50g Motueka (B Saaz) 5 mins 9 IBUs
20g Motueka (B Saaz) dry hop

Wyeast 1028
Ferment at 19 degrees. 






ohitsbrad said:


> I emailed Macs in September. I asked whether they use D Saaz or B Saaz and they replied B Saaz only. (About time we started calling it Motueka too!) Some of the specs have already been posted but this is what I got in my response.
> 
> Stated grain bill as:
> 60% NZ Cellar malt
> ...


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## reviled (6/10/08)

Im thinking of putting this on the to do list, only problem is the yeast for me... Would this come out ok with US-05? Or maybe S-04?

Cheers


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## Screwtop (6/10/08)

ohitsbrad said:


> I emailed Macs in September. I asked whether they use D Saaz or B Saaz and they replied B Saaz only. (About time we started calling it Motueka too!) Some of the specs have already been posted but this is what I got in my response.
> 
> Stated grain bill as:
> 60% NZ Cellar malt
> ...



Close to 40% crystal malts, think they might be fibbing?? you'd have to chew it, or maybe their yeast is the PacMan strain :lol:


What do others think?

Screwy


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## ohitsbrad (4/11/08)

reviled: I'd probably give S-04 a go. S-05 worth a try too. Since they apparently use a strain not available to us I suppose its going to be hard to get it quite right anyway.

Screwtop: Most of it is caramalt which just seems to give it body and head retention. A few swirls of this beer in the glass and a huge foamy head will re-form. I had 31% specialty grains in my attempt, I don't know, it doesn't taste too chewy, strange. I certainly was afraid to begin with though!

Whatever you go with, an enormous amount of Motueka will probably do no harm!


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## aaronpetersen (1/6/10)

Dragging up an old post here but I'm very keen to make something similar to the Sassy Red.
Has anyone managed a good approximation?

Ohitsbrad: did you have another go with the different grain bill?


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## T.D. (1/6/10)

Screwtop said:


> Close to 40% crystal malts, think they might be fibbing?? you'd have to chew it, or maybe their yeast is the PacMan strain :lol:
> 
> 
> What do others think?
> ...



I think sometimes these breweries over-simplify their grain bills for the description. I have heard JS Amber be described as having 20% crystal, which I also find hard to believe. My hunch is they include things like munich and very light crystals in this category. Its certainly not all medium and dark crystals!

The Sassy Red could have 20% Munich, 10% caramalt and then maybe 5% Carapils and 5% medium Crystal. Still pretty sticky, but its plausible...


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## hazard (1/6/10)

T.D. said:


> I think sometimes these breweries over-simplify their grain bills for the description. I have heard JS Amber be described as having 20% crystal, which I also find hard to believe. My hunch is they include things like munich and very light crystals in this category. Its certainly not all medium and dark crystals!



Ah yes, but JS Amber Ale is also 20% sugar - and that's straight from Chuck's mouth (source: interview in BYO magazine). Which would dry it out compared to an all malt with 20% crystal.

And why shouldn't they include light crystal in the percent of crystal??? I agree that munich shouldn't be included in the crystal percent, but its a bit weird to say that you don't believe its 20% crytsal because you've got a hunch that there's light crystal in there as well.


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## T.D. (1/6/10)

hazard said:


> Ah yes, but JS Amber Ale is also 20% sugar - and that's straight from Chuck's mouth (source: interview in BYO magazine). Which would dry it out compared to an all malt with 20% crystal.
> 
> And why shouldn't they include light crystal in the percent of crystal??? I agree that munich shouldn't be included in the crystal percent, but its a bit weird to say that you don't believe its 20% crytsal because you've got a hunch that there's light crystal in there as well.



Is somebody gave you a recipe that called for say 5% crystal, what spec would you assume that meant? The first thing that jumps into most people's minds when you say crystal malt is medium crystal, that is my point. You can't just lump all crystals into one category, they have entirely different effects on the beer. Either the beer does not use 20% crystal or its mainly a very light variety. Either way there's not much point in even saying that it has 20% crystal in the first place.


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## cwhouston (3/5/12)

I'm having a blast at this, based on a recipe a mate made which was pretty awesome but bigger and the wrong colour for Sassy Red. Going with:

19L batch / OG 1.052 / IBU 33

3.9 kg MO (88%)
250g Caraaroma (6%)
200g Dingemans Biscuit (4%)
100g Wheat (2%)

15g Challenger @ 60 min
15g Motueka @ 15 min
5g Cascade @ 15 min
10g Motueka @ 5 min
5g Cascade @ 5 min
10g Motueka @ FO
5g Cascade @ FO

15g Motueka dry hop.

Wyeast 1318 - overpitching to keep it cleaner.

Feedback on the hop schedule very welcome - it looks a little light on flavour compared with some of the other attempts.


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## jlm (3/5/12)

cwhouston said:


> I'm having a blast at this, based on a recipe a mate made which was pretty awesome but bigger and the wrong colour for Sassy Red. Going with:
> 
> 19L batch / OG 1.052 / IBU 33
> 
> ...


I'd ditch the Cascade and keep it all Moteuka and maybe bump up your dry hop a bit. There's a recipe buried deep in the recipe DB called "Slutty Red" by warresdfsdf.....or something, I forget his name now and haven't seen him around here for a while, and I tinkered with that recipe a few times a while ago. The hop schedule on that I found to get within the ballpark. For my money I'd keep it where you're at and work up from there if you need to. If I were to brew this again I'd probably use good ol' 1272 now, I think the beer is let down a bit by mac's yeast which I find a tad... ah... rough....(?)in that beer. Keep it nice and clean and let the moteuka provide the character around the malt.


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## tazman1967 (3/5/12)

This is this is the recipe you would be after...
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...&recipe=457

Im interested myself in having a go at this, got most of the ingredients. Maybe a touch of Carared crytal
Might skip the Saaz late addition and use B Saaz all the way through. Also I might use Wyeast 1272 yeast.


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