# Wort Chillers - Whats Best?



## captaincleanoff (11/4/08)

I've just moved to AG, and am looking into a chiller.

What have you guys found is the best? A coil? Plate chiller? Any other methods?

Did a brew last weekend and tried cooling it in the bath... took ages, and made the bath absolutely filthy from all the black stuff on the bottom of the pot.. dont want to do that again.


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## drsmurto (11/4/08)

Plate chiller for me - i can adjust flow rates to adjust the resulting wort temp and with a thermo on the wort outlet of the plate chiller i can see at a glance the temp of my wort. Can get the wort down to below 30 at full throttle in less than 10 mins.


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## TasChris (11/4/08)

I use a immersion chiller and find that to be very simple to clean, no internal blockages, easy to sterilize in the boil. But I live in an area with average rainfall of 1300mm and run the water I use back through the gutter into the rain water tanks so water wastage is not a problem.
Takes me about 45 mins to drop the temp from boiling to 18-20 deg in summer and about 30 mins in winter

Cheers
Chris


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## newguy (11/4/08)

I've used:

1) Kettle in snowbank.
2) Kettle in bathtub.
3) Immersion chiller.
4) Counterflow chiller. This is what I presently use.

1) probably isn't an option for most areas of Australia. Good thing too, because it sucks.
2) as you've found out sucks too. Takes ages and is a pain to haul the full kettle in & out of the tub.
3) worked well, but wasted a lot of water. ~20l would take about 30 minutes to chill to pitching temperatures in winter when the tap water was about 5C. In summer it would take much, much longer.
4) is my favourite. I presently do 40l batches and it takes about 25 minutes to chill it all to pitching temperatures, so 20l would take about 12-13 minutes. I like this method because it 'flash chills' and the hot wort left in the kettle stays sterile until it's chilled. This method does waste water, but if you recycle/capture it, then water use isn't much of an issue.

Methods 3 & 4 can both be jerry-rigged with an ice water pre-chiller to increase the efficiency of the system. They can also be run in a closed loop to save water as well.


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## sunburnt (11/4/08)

I use an immersion chiller.

The water comes from my rainwater tank and then I run the outflow from the chiller back into the tank.

That way I don't waste any water.

Works a treat


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## oldbugman (11/4/08)

I'm going to return to selectively using an immersion chiller, with a pump whirlpooling


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## Cracka (11/4/08)

Just while on this subject, can you post some pictures of different set ups please


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## matti (11/4/08)

I've got a Immersion-chiller.

Good for watering the garden and bring things down to ale pitch temps in 30 minutes. 90-129$

Plate chiller is more effective cause it exposes a greater area of the water and will chill cooler and faster.
$$$$$ :blink: 

No chill= $12-$20 for a cube(s).


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## RobW (11/4/08)

I use a CF chiller for the reasons newguy mentions. I hook the outflow up to the garden dripper system and don't water on the weekends when I brew.


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## newguy (11/4/08)

Cracka said:


> Just while on this subject, can you post some pictures of different set ups please



There's a picture of my CFC and kettle set up in this post.


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## captaincleanoff (11/4/08)

newguy said:


> There's a picture of my CFC and kettle set up in this post.



thats a really good post there newguy. Great setup! Not sure the chiller option is for me though.. interested to see more setups!


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## Cortez The Killer (11/4/08)

There is also the no-chill option

Cheap and effective - plus a range of other advantages

Worth a go before lashing out on a chiller

*ducks for cover* 

Cheers


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## razz (11/4/08)

Plate chiller for me captaincleanoff. Best thing I've done since i got it 3 years ago is to run the outflow back into the top of the kettle for 20 minutes before I run it all into the fermenter.


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## captaincleanoff (11/4/08)

razz said:


> Plate chiller for me captaincleanoff. Best thing I've done since i got it 3 years ago is to run the outflow back into the top of the kettle for 20 minutes before I run it all into the fermenter.



Are they easy to clean? Anyone have the Chillout Mark III that ross sells? how does that go?


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## Hully (11/4/08)

G'day

I use 2 of the Mashmaster Mark III in series and it cools 250lt to pitching temp in less than an hour using mains temp water. I recirc to kettle for about 10 mins to whirlpool and then single pass to fermenter. In the peak of summer I ran water through immersion chiller in ice bucket prior to plate cooler to egt extra couple of degrees from wort.

First water off to HLT for cleanup water (or mash water for next batch if 2 brew day).

Re cleaning, I reverse flow with caustic solution. To sanitise recirc boiling wort for few minutes prior to turning on cooling water. Just need to chemical sanitise valve and line to fermenter.

Pete


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## GMK (11/4/08)

I use a COnvoluted Copper Conter Flow Wort Chiller.

Very very effective.
Check it out at More Beer - Convoltus Maximus.


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## schooey (11/4/08)

Hully said:


> I use 2 of the Mashmaster Mark III in series and it cools 250lt to pitching temp in less than an hour ...



Just curious if you are pushing it through with an 809 March? I've tried pushing wort through an 18m 1/2" immersion chiller in an esky full of ice and it barely flows into the fermenter with the amount of friction loss. Just wondering if there is less friction loss in a plate chiller?


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## Hully (11/4/08)

G'day

I am using an 815 March, slightly more capacity than the 809. Yes there is flow rate loss due to back pressure from the heat exchangers but not showstopping.

Pete


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## Back Yard Brewer (11/4/08)

schooey said:


> Just curious if you are pushing it through with an 809 March? I've tried pushing wort through an 18m 1/2" immersion chiller in an esky full of ice and it barely flows into the fermenter with the amount of friction loss. Just wondering if there is less friction loss in a plate chiller?




I pass mine through a Convoluted Copper Conter Flow Wort Chiller and then through a SS coil which is immersed in ice. Works a treat. The only problem I have encountered is the SS coil can freeze up if the wort does not go through first. I can get it under, well under 20c.

BYB


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## schooey (11/4/08)

Hmmm, maybe I have some nasties lurking inside the immersion chiller restricting the flow... <_< Anyone know if it's kosher to pump warm caustic through a March?


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## dr K (11/4/08)

> I use a COnvoluted Copper Conter Flow Wort Chiller.
> 
> Very very effective.
> Check it out at More Beer - Convoltus Maximus.



GMK..you finally bought one then...????


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## razz (12/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> Are they easy to clean? Anyone have the Chillout Mark III that ross sells? how does that go?


Always backflush mine with 90-95 degrees water from the hlt as soon as all the wort is in the fermenter. It helps to only let a bit of trub go through the chiller, all my hops go in a hopsock.


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## captaincleanoff (14/4/08)

ok, I'm going to get either the Chillout Mark III plate chiller, or a copper coil (this one):






which one do you guys think is the best option? Obviously both have to be flushed clean.. but which is the easiest to work with? The copper chiller doesnt come with any fittings, so might be easier to go with the Chillout Mark III.

whats best?!?!


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## enoch (14/4/08)

Fittings are easy. Two cheap Garden hose females quick disconnects, A peice of 1/2 inch hose for each, fix with couple hose clamps.


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## drsmurto (14/4/08)

Here's the plate chiller i use courtesy of beerbelly. 

Brewed warrens 'just a trickle' dark mild on sunday and got the wort down to 22C on a single pass!


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## therook (14/4/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Here's the plate chiller i use courtesy of beerbelly.
> 
> Brewed warrens 'just a trickle' dark mild on sunday and got the wort down to 22C on a single pass!




Dr, 

how do these things go with the hop sludge? do they block up?

Rook


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## drsmurto (14/4/08)

I have a hopscreen as well....

But i find if i whirlpool at flameout and then gently raise the kettle for the last few Ls i get bugger all hop crud/trub coming thru. I wash it out straight away with hot water and then a sanitiser. Had no issues at all and makes life easy, the mild was bubbling away before i called it a night.

Works even better when i use plugs and i have a few bags of flowers to try as well.


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## Doogiechap (14/4/08)

DrSmurto said:


> I have a hopscreen as well....
> 
> But i find if i whirlpool at flameout and then gently raise the kettle for the last few Ls i get bugger all hop crud/trub coming thru. I wash it out straight away with hot water and then a sanitiser. Had no issues at all and makes life easy, the mild was bubbling away before i called it a night.
> 
> Works even better when i use plugs and i have a few bags of flowers to try as well.



Dr Smurto, I'd like to know where you got the thermometer from, I know Jye has a similar unit but after much searching couldn't track down a supplier. My Herms Return would love one of those mounted via a tee fitting.
And to keep things on track I am sooooo happy about my Chillout MkIII
I have used both an immersion chiller and a CFC in a length of 90mm poly pipe and the plate is very effective with less water usage to do the job for me.


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## drsmurto (14/4/08)

The chiller and extra fittings are all the work of BeerBelly


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## pokolbinguy (14/4/08)

Are the hosetails removable from the MashMaster Chillout Mark III???

Cheers, Pok


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## Doogiechap (14/4/08)

pokolbinguy said:


> Are the hosetails removable from the MashMaster Chillout Mark III???
> 
> Cheers, Pok



No not the MkIII but you can get this 30 plate one from Brissybrew for the same price with threaded couplings.
Cheers
Doug


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## captaincleanoff (14/4/08)

doogiechap, good to hear you are happy with the Chillout, I think I'm going to get one. Just wondering, what size batches are you doing? I'm going to be doing 50l brews with it, you done anything that big with it?


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## BrissyBrew (14/4/08)

Doogiechap said:


> No not the MkIII but you can get this 30 plate one from Brissybrew for the same price with threaded couplings.
> Cheers
> Doug


The 30 plate units have about the same surface area as the MKIII, the MKIII however as a longer cross over (plates are longer in length) and barbed fittings so you dont need to worry about sanitising/cleaning threaded fittings.


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## Doogiechap (14/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> doogiechap, good to hear you are happy with the Chillout, I think I'm going to get one. Just wondering, what size batches are you doing? I'm going to be doing 50l brews with it, you done anything that big with it?


Bloke my standard batch size is 40l and I pump my wort fairly quickly through it with the output being very close to my tap water temp (at least in summer @ 26)
Much faster than my other attempts. For me it's money well spent.  
I will be storing chilling water in some 200l drums behind the shed and using a submersible pump to transfer that water in the near future.
PS Thanks Brissy for clarifying the minimal plate area difference between the two models.
Cheers
Doug


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## simonab (14/4/08)

Hi Captain

If you're going to buy a March pump (see bulk buy) then I would definitely try a whirlpool immersion chiller, http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

I have a normal immersion, a convoluted CF chiller and a whirlpool chiller. The whirlpool chiller (combined with settling overnight in the boiler in the cool evenings in Melb) is as quick as the convoluted CF chiller but has the advantage of leaving the cold break behind. I did a 45L batch of Kolsch on the w/e and the runoff out of teh boiler was crystal clear. I havnt tried a plate chiller.

Cheers
Simon


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## Back Yard Brewer (21/4/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> I pass mine through a Convoluted Copper Conter Flow Wort Chiller and then through a SS coil which is immersed in ice. Works a treat. The only problem I have encountered is the SS coil can freeze up if the wort does not go through first. I can get it under, well under 20c.
> 
> BYB




Here is my set-up from brewing on saturday. The smoke is the dry ice, I have used ice in the past that has been made a few days earlier but since I have access to dry ice why not use it. I got my wort from 80c down to a nice even 17c


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## stueywhytcross (8/5/08)

Is it possible to just use a coil of hose running through a ice bath. The more hose the greater surface area thus the quicker the wort would cool down. After a while you would be able to adjust your length of hose in the ice bath/pot to get very close to you desired pitching temp in one pass?
Im considering trying this instead of cfc, immersion or plate chillers. What do you reckon?


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## BoilerBoy (8/5/08)

disco stu said:


> Is it possible to just use a coil of hose running through a ice bath. The more hose the greater surface area thus the quicker the wort would cool down. After a while you would be able to adjust your length of hose in the ice bath/pot to get very close to you desired pitching temp in one pass?
> Im considering trying this instead of cfc, immersion or plate chillers. What do you reckon?



G'day disco stu.
I use a 9m copper coil that runs directly into a plastic storage crate filled with water and ice.
The wort leaves the kettle straight into the ice bath and then into a plastic cube.
I freeze up about 25L of ice made in old yogurt containers of about 1L each several days before brew day. 
After the boil I let it rest for around 10-15 min then gradually add the ice and stir the water continously for about 15-20 min and by adjusting the flow from the kettle tap the temp gets down to 18C even lower if I use slightly more ice and restrict the flow further.

All the water is retained within the platic storage crate and used on the garden.
It takes a bit of planning before brew day, but then I have to do that with yeast anyway.

Been doing this method ever since I started AG 3 years ago, I guess its the "poor mans chiller"

Cheers
BB


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## Darren (8/5/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Here is my set-up from brewing on saturday. The smoke is the dry ice, I have used ice in the past that has been made a few days earlier but since I have access to dry ice why not use it. I got my wort from 80c down to a nice even 17c




Hey BYB,

I hope that was on a 40C day?? I get my wort to 28 C on a 40C day without ice.

Autumn day I usually get to 23

Winter less than 18 C flat out


Disco,

Yo will need copper to transfer the "cool" effectively
cheers

Darren


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## pokolbinguy (8/5/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Here is my set-up from brewing on saturday. The smoke is the dry ice, I have used ice in the past that has been made a few days earlier but since I have access to dry ice why not use it. I got my wort from 80c down to a nice even 17c




Hey BYB how do your garden hose fittings on your hoses go handling the hot liquid etc? And where did you get that hosing?

Pok


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## yardy (9/5/08)

Cracka said:


> Just while on this subject, can you post some pictures of different set ups please















here's mine, i bought a couple of kilos of annealed from the scrap bloke in bundy, $10 a kg i think, half an hour and you've got an immersion chiller.

cheers
yard


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## mikem108 (9/5/08)

Plate chiller from Mashmaster. faster and more efficient than my old counter flow, uses far less water and drains quicker.


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## Kleiny (9/5/08)

Just made a emersion chiller and it works as good as i can hope for
from boil to 20C in around 30min run water from a tank and returns ( no waste)


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## stueywhytcross (9/5/08)

BoilerBoy said:


> G'day disco stu.
> I use a 9m copper coil that runs directly into a plastic storage crate filled with water and ice.
> The wort leaves the kettle straight into the ice bath and then into a plastic cube.
> I freeze up about 25L of ice made in old yogurt containers of about 1L each several days before brew day.
> ...



Thanks BB, I havn't brewed any all grains yet. Just sussing out the equipment I will need. I just thought it makes sense to quickly cool the wort that way as opposed to a counter flow chiller.
Cheers 
Stu.


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## Tim F (10/5/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Plate chiller for me - i can adjust flow rates to adjust the resulting wort temp and with a thermo on the wort outlet of the plate chiller i can see at a glance the temp of my wort. Can get the wort down to below 30 at full throttle in less than 10 mins.



Do you need a pump to use one of these or is it ok to operate/clean with gravity alone?


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## Julez (27/5/08)

Tim F said:


> Do you need a pump to use one of these or is it ok to operate/clean with gravity alone?



According to the product description, they work under gravity, but I'd like to know just how well?? Is anyone using a plate chiller without a pump that can shed some light on this?


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## reVoxAHB (27/5/08)

Julez said:


> According to the product description, they work under gravity, but I'd like to know just how well?? Is anyone using a plate chiller without a pump that can shed some light on this?



I did three brews with my plate chiller (ChillOut MKIII) using gravity, before getting a pump. I had to invert the chiller so the name plate was facing down, in order to get it to flow at all. With my rig, the drop from kettle to wort in was only a foot or so. Others have commented they use gravity only without issue, but with a good 2 foot drop (to wort in). Lots of variables here, which could affect flow rate. Hard to advise. 

In my case, flow rate using gravity was less than spectacular. With the addition of a pump, I reckon it's the best chiller I've owned. I wish I'd skipped immersion, counter-flow, etc. and just went straight to using a plate chiller. 

Hope helps, 
reVox


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## Back Yard Brewer (27/5/08)

Darren said:


> Hey BYB,
> 
> I hope that was on a 40C day?? I get my wort to 28 C on a 40C day without ice.
> 
> ...




Yep on stinking hot days I resort to the extra chiller B) , since it is now winter I have had no problem getting it down to under 20c.

BYB


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## Julez (27/5/08)

reVox said:


> I did three brews with my plate chiller (ChillOut MKIII) using gravity, before getting a pump. I had to invert the chiller so the name plate was facing down, in order to get it to flow at all. With my rig, the drop from kettle to wort in was only a foot or so. Others have commented they use gravity only without issue, but with a good 2 foot drop (to wort in). Lots of variables here, which could affect flow rate. Hard to advise.
> 
> In my case, flow rate using gravity was less than spectacular. With the addition of a pump, I reckon it's the best chiller I've owned. I wish I'd skipped immersion, counter-flow, etc. and just went straight to using a plate chiller.
> 
> ...



Nice one, thanks reVox :icon_cheers:


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## Back Yard Brewer (27/5/08)

pokolbinguy said:


> Hey BYB how do your garden hose fittings on your hoses go handling the hot liquid etc? And where did you get that hosing?
> 
> Pok




Garden fittings have performed well so far. I have made around 8 AG's. Hosing is just reinforced hose from the local hardware shop not the best stuff to use but is is cheap and works.


BYB


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## remi (27/5/08)

I've recently purchased a second immersion chiller to use as a pre-chiller- the tap water temperature here was 26C in summer, and last month was still 21C, making it difficult to knock it down to pitching temps quickly- and I don't have a fermentation fridge...

Anyway, with the US dollar being what it is it was cheaper to purchase a chiller from the US and have it shipped- which worked out at about $100. Looking forward to giving it a crack tomorrow- leave it in ice slurry and re-route the tap water through it once the wort is down to 30C or so.

remi


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## drsmurto (28/5/08)

Tim F said:


> Do you need a pump to use one of these or is it ok to operate/clean with gravity alone?



Nah, gravity all the way for me. Last brew i had the kettle on the NASA stand on the ground and was still able to chill to 20C. Altho at that low height i have to run it flat out but at this time of the year its fine for ales. For lagers i lift the kettle (yeah, yeah, OH&S yada yada yada) approx 1m off the ground and can control flow better.


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## warrenlw63 (28/5/08)

Interesting thread chaps.

Been contemplating a plate chiller after no chilling for some time. Is it true they (plate chillers) will use far less water than my old immersion chiller?

My main reasoning for reverting back from NC is I'm finding my beers lack hop aroma with this method.

Warren -


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## drsmurto (28/5/08)

Not sure about water usage as i run mine from a rainwater tank and then feed it straight back in so usage is effectively 0.

From a purely scientific point of view a plate (or CFW) chiller will be more effective as there is a greater contact between the wort and the heat exchanger. As to which one of these is more effective.......


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## Julez (28/5/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Nah, gravity all the way for me. Last brew i had the kettle on the NASA stand on the ground and was still able to chill to 20C. Altho at that low height i have to run it flat out but at this time of the year its fine for ales. For lagers i lift the kettle (yeah, yeah, OH&S yada yada yada) approx 1m off the ground and can control flow better.



DrSmurto, you use gravity for the wort AND gravity for the water?


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## drsmurto (28/5/08)

Gravity for the wort and the pump attached to the rainwater tanks to drive the water thru the chiller.


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## Back Yard Brewer (28/5/08)

remi said:


> Looking forward to giving it a crack tomorrow- leave it in ice slurry and re-route the tap water through it once the wort is down to 30C or so.
> 
> remi




Be carefull about putting it in ice. You may freeze it up. Best to pass hot wort through first then dump it in ice. I am talking from experince.

BYB


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## Murray (28/5/08)

Simon in Melb said:


> Hi Captain
> 
> If you're going to buy a March pump (see bulk buy) then I would definitely try a whirlpool immersion chiller, http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php
> 
> ...



Top idea. I think I'll pull the old immersion chiller out and give it a go.


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## big d (28/5/08)

Using these cooler months to my advantage at the moment until i hook up the shed rainwater tank to the immersion coil.
Just run the wort into a cube then drop it into the pool for a while and when the temp is looking good its straight into the fermenter.
Works for me.

Cheers
Big D


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## WitWonder (29/5/08)

Julez said:


> According to the product description, they work under gravity, but I'd like to know just how well?? Is anyone using a plate chiller without a pump that can shed some light on this?



Plate chiller, gravity fed here. I have a block & tackle which my boiler is hooked up to so at the end of the boil I hoist it up to around 1m off the ground and it's fine.


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## hoohaaman (29/5/08)

WitWonder said:


> Plate chiller, gravity fed here. I have a block & tackle which my boiler is hooked up to so at the end of the boil I hoist it up to around 1m off the ground and it's fine.



Plate chiller also,gravity fed but measured precisely for end result.Only lift fermenter 6" to it's home.


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## drsmurto (30/5/08)

WitWonder said:


> Plate chiller, gravity fed here. I have a block & tackle which my boiler is hooked up to so at the end of the boil I hoist it up to around 1m off the ground and it's fine.



See now thats why i am a scientist and not a handyman. Wouldnt have even thought of setting up some sort of hoist if i hadnt read it here. Funny thing is when i am standing in the shed and look up there is a heap of chains already hanging from the rafters with nice big hooks attached.......  

Now which end of this hammer am i supposed to hit the nail with...... :huh:


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## Julez (30/5/08)

Got my new chiller (Chillout Mk III) going a treat now - couldn't get decent pressure for water, so have now employed an aquarium pump - $30 from Bunnings for 1000L/hr. From a trial with 20 degree water last night, got my hot liquor down to 30 degrees in one pass. I reckon when I use iced water, should get to the low-mid twenties pretty easily  

NOW I like my chiller!!


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## Northside Novice (13/4/10)

hi all
i am keen to make an emersion chiller out of copper pipe and was wondering which is better 3/8th or 1/2 inch size pipe?
cheers


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## katzke (13/4/10)

northside novice said:


> hi all
> i am keen to make an emersion chiller out of copper pipe and was wondering which is better 3/8th or 1/2 inch size pipe?
> cheers



There has got to be a theoretical balance to a coil chiller. I have cold water and use a 3/8 chiller that I guess is 25 feet long. It takes quite a bit to get it chilled down to the final pitching temp. We do not have water problems and I have a big tree that I dump the water on when I chill. It helps the lawn out that way. Coil chillers work better if you stir the wort while chilling. Who want to stand and stir for half an hour if water is not a problem.

If I had to worry about water or had it to do over again I would get less copper and make a counter flow chiller. You should be able to find good instructions on the net and even with the difference in fittings you should be able to show the plans to a good hardware store or plumbing supplier and get the parts you need.

A counter flow chiller is a poor mans plate chiller. The big advantage is you have to work real hard to plug one up. You get the benefit that theoretically you can get wort that is the same temp as the chilling water in one pass. It would not hurt to add a few coils to any design you find that does not say it is for warm water. You can always slow down the cooling water if it works too well. Any chiller will only cool to the temp of the input water if you let it run long enough.

A plate chiller is best. I have seen the chilezilla and it is a counter flow on steroids and it works as well as a plate (at least here). The advantage of a plate chiller is it will cool as fast as you can flow the wort if your water is reasonable cool. I have seen the chilezilla and plate chillers that cooled the wort too well. Like I said we have cool water. It is the end of winter and not quite spring. Our tap water is at 46 F. Sorry for not converting but the neat add on converter will do it for you. Least that is what I use to convert your liters of kittens in Firefox.


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## Cortez The Killer (13/4/10)

I have purchased 18m of 1/2" copper to eventually make a whirlpool chiller per Jamil - http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

1/2" will give you more surface area than 3/8" thereby allowing better heat exchange and bits and pieces are a little easier to source for 1/2"

Cheers


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## katzke (13/4/10)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I have purchased 18m of 1/2" copper to eventually make a whirlpool chiller per Jamil - http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php
> 
> 1/2" will give you more surface area than 3/8" thereby allowing better heat exchange and bits and pieces are a little easier to source for 1/2"
> 
> Cheers



So are you going to make yours backwards to counter the southern hemisphere effect?


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## Cortez The Killer (13/4/10)

I think I'd better

I don't wanna create some sort of Temporal Vortex and find that all the beer in my keg fridge has disappeared...


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