# Insulation For Ss Mash Tun



## yardy (29/3/09)

gday all,

heading to bunnings tomorrow, can some of the learned here tell me what the stick on insulation is called that is used on the keg shaped mash tuns ?

Cheers
Yard


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## clean brewer (29/3/09)

Aeroflex????????????????


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## Batz (29/3/09)

yardy said:


> gday all,
> 
> heading to bunnings tomorrow, can some of the learned here tell me what the stick on insulation is called that is used on the keg shaped mash tuns ?
> 
> ...




Bet a friendly lagger could make a nice job of it.

Batz


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## dr K (29/3/09)

An old doona, a towel or two, SS is a poor conductor,,you have a shitload of thermal mass and mashing is (for the main) exothermic, just don't try this outside at near freezing temps!

K


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## jonocarroll (29/3/09)

dr K said:


> mashing is (for the main) exothermic


WTF??? Since when did adding water to grain *produce* heat?



> In thermodynamics, the term exothermic (literally meaning "outside heating") describes a process or reaction that releases energy usually in the form of heat


You measure the energy of grain, water, and mashtun before and after mashing and I guarantee that you'll have less at the end - by exactly the amount of thermal energy lost to the surroundings. Lowering this loss is what helps. Mashing is completely endothermic - you use heat to break chemical bonds and hydrolyze starches.

Your post doesn't really help the original poster - who was asking for the name of a product, possibly this.


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## dr K (29/3/09)

> Mashing is completely endothermic



Is it?
I suspect not.
Any idiot (villiage or not) will tell you that the temp of the mash after 60 minutes is lower than the start temp.
The initial stages of a mash are (and it is well documented) exothermic. Now I am not talking about for example the amount of heat that th fermentation of yeast produces but more a slaking heat.
With regard to the initial post I would say, again, that a doona whilst not very bling is adequate, indeed a naked mash is concievable in moderate temps.

K


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## MHB (30/3/09)

Big +1 for Aeroflex, tho I doubt you will find it at Bunning's.
It's my weapon of choice, glue it on with the Aeroflex glue and give it a full wrap in 50mm PVC tape.
I would disagree with the inimitable Dr K on the choice of insulation, but he is right on a mash being exothermic, at least mashing in is, no surprise there.

As for SS being a crappy conductor, well yes it is for a metal (alloy) just means its bad at being a good conductor, but it's very good compared to say plastic, glass, Aeroflex or even towels or a doona.
Energy costs money and I'm loathed to give it away

MHB

A snip from "Brewing Science and Practice"

When malt is mixed with water heat is generated and this slaking heat or heat of hydration is less for malts with higher moisture contents. So, for example, a malt with a moisture content of 2%, mashed in a particular way, may give a temperature rise of about 4.8 oC while a malt with a moisture content of 6% would give a temperature rise of 2.6 oC when mashed in the same way. The initial heat of the mash can be calculated from the formula

I = [St + RT/S+R] + [0.5H/S+R]
Where S specific heat of the malt, t the temperature of the malt, R the weight of water, relative to the unit weight of the malt, T is the temperature of the water, H is the slaking heat of the malt expressed in the correct units and I is the initial temperature of the mash.

Others prefer to use H (rather than 0.5H) and make allowances for heat losses, determined by trial and error. The final temperature of a mash warmed by "underletting", that is the addition of hot liquor to the mash, can be calculated from the formula

Final temperature = [M(S+R) + QT] / (S+R+Q)
Where M temperature of the mash at the time of underletting, Q is the quantity of water used in the underlet, T temperature of the underlet liquor. The other symbols are as used before. These calculations can be used only for guidance. They cannot give exact results because no allowance is made for heat losses from the system, and these will vary with the temperature of the brewhouse.


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## reg (30/3/09)

You could just go to Rays Outdoors and grab a camping mat for a few dollars.
Wrap around and use string to tie around.
Then you can take off whenever you need etc....


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## FNQ Bunyip (30/3/09)

Buildersblanket Yardy ,, drop around too a few new house sites and the roofing plumbers will probly have a bit of scrap laying around ... Its the stuff with wool one side and the silve paper stuck too it ... then grey tape/duct tape...

heeps cheeper , Areoflix is great but very exxy ....

Cheers


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## reVoxAHB (30/3/09)

Hiya Yardy,

I've tried a few materials over the years and settled on concrete expansion jointing.. Warren put me onto it. It's around 13mm in thickness.. use duct tape to secure each roll as you stack it on the keg, then optionally finish the job (mostly for cosmetics) with a large roll of rubber (1 piece)... mate gave me a bit; it's sort of like wet suit material... he picked it up at a local trash and treasure for a $5er. Otherwise, camping mat, etc. would do the trick. 

Devo hooked me up with aeroflex. Awesome stuff but I found it dinged, tore, etc. too quickly moving the tun around for cleaning, etc. Would better suit a HLT that sits on a shelf, imo.

reVox


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## gibbocore (30/3/09)

I'm going to hit up the local wetsuit shop (wing) they do wetsuits for under $50 and i am going to ask em to make me up a jacket with zipper for my Mash tun and HLT, see what quote they give me. I hear Neoprene works fairly well, that way i can unzip it for cleaning etc, obviously i'd be paying a fair bit, but hey, functionality wise would be pretty ace. Plus i get worried about wort/grain soaking into the media that i'd be sticking/taping/glueing to the mash tun and causing a ripe stink over a few batches.


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## jonocarroll (30/3/09)

Sorry for the slight wander off-topic, but this thread has degenerated into 'what should the OP use instead of the material he was enquiring about' anyway...



MHB said:


> I would disagree with the inimitable Dr K on the choice of insulation, but he is right on a mash being exothermic, at least mashing in is, no surprise there.
> 
> A snip from "Brewing Science and Practice"
> 
> When malt is mixed with water heat is generated ... <snip>


This required some looking around. Had a look at BSaP and apart from directly quoting from their reference, they note



> Data recalculated, by interpolation, from the data of (a) Brown (1910) and (b) Hopkins and Carter (1933)


The 'data' from Brown seems to be in *J. Inst. Brewing, 1910, 16, 112-129.* but damned if I can find it (not surprised really, it's from 1910). This is the most recent data that anyone has. Any mention of this effect seems to be a direct quote from Brown. I'm not saying it's incorrect, but really... an experiment from 1910???

More to the point, this effect only seems relevant at mash-in, if at all. Not "_mashing is (for the main) exothermic_" - a hint of truth doesn't save this statement. If this temperature addition affects mash-in, the temperature predicted by beersmith must also include this contribution, otherwise everyone's strike temps would be off.

As for this gem



> Any idiot (villiage or not) will tell you that the temp of the mash after 60 minutes is lower than the start temp.


Any village idiot who knows any thermodynamics at all will tell you that less than ideal insulation is completely different from an exothermic reaction. An exothermic reaction actually _generates_ heat, not just loses it to its surroundings. Pouring an acid on magnesium _generates_ heat, it doesn't just get cooler because the room is cooler. If mashing was exothermic, you _wouldn't need_ good insulation - it would keep itself warm!!


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## Back Yard Brewer (30/3/09)

Recently bought some aeroflex from airefrig here in Adelaide. 1.2m x .9m x 13mm sheet of it. Used good old kwikgrip to stick it to the pot. Almost cried as I applied the glue. All that lovely SS get covered in shit so to speak. Be careful when you start to put the sheeting on, you only get one crack at positioning the aeroflex. Kwikgrip gives no second chances. Currently having a vinyl zip cover made for it. Hioefully have it by this week-end. Yep +1 for the aeroflex.

BYB


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## SJW (30/3/09)

> Aeroflex????????????????


Go the Aeroflex, like Mark said. Those camp mats suck. 25mm Aeroflex is the only way to go. I have it on my mash tun and HLT. Although I could not bring myself to glue it to my nice shiny kegs, so just the 50mm tape did the trick.


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## yardy (30/3/09)

clean brewer said:


> *Aeroflex????????????????*






Batz said:


> *Bet a friendly lagger could make a nice job of it.
> *
> Batz






FNQ Bunyip said:


> *Buildersblanket Yardy ,, drop around too a few new house sites and the roofing plumbers will probly have a bit of scrap laying around ... Its the stuff with wool one side and the silve paper stuck too it ... then grey tape/duct tape...
> 
> heeps cheeper , Areoflix is great but very exxy ....*
> 
> Cheers




Thanks Fellas, Builders Blanket / Aeroflex it is.

Batz,
top idea but I've never met a friendly Lagger :lol: 



*could've done without the pissing contest in the form of a science lesson though* :angry:


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## yardy (30/3/09)

SJW said:


> Go the Aeroflex, like Mark said. Those camp mats suck. 25mm Aeroflex is the only way to go. I have it on my mash tun and HLT. Although I could not bring myself to glue it to my nice shiny kegs, so just the 50mm tape did the trick.
> 
> View attachment 25797



thanks SJW, any idea of approx $$$ you paid ?


nice rig btw B) 


Cheers
Yard


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## Screwtop (30/3/09)

Used concrete expansion jointing here, held on with 50mm tape all from Bunnings, this was then covered with cheap car windscreen insulation, the silver lined bubble wrap type, again taped up with 50mm silver coloured PVC tape. Cheap and effective, sure takes care of those Endo and Exo thingys 

Screwy


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## TidalPete (30/3/09)

Yardy,

If it's not too late I would like to add my 2 bob's worth.  
I'm in the middle of replacing my cooler mash tun with a similar model to yours & have splurged out on a length of 1000mm wide aluminium backed rubber sheeting from Clark Rubber. A 1300mm length will be enough to cover the outside + top & bottom of your mash tun. A little pricey at $24.00 metre but gives a good bling factor.  

TP


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## jonocarroll (30/3/09)

If you are considering alternatives, perhaps contact BeerBelly and ask what the black stuff he uses on the Brewboy is.


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## samhighley (30/3/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> If you are considering alternatives, perhaps contact BeerBelly and ask what the black stuff he uses on the Brewboy is.



Wayne told me a while back that it was aeroflex insulation.


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## jonocarroll (30/3/09)

Sammy said:


> Wayne told me a while back that it was aeroflex insulation.


Then he should know where to get it. Depends if you're still keen on the advised pricing.


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## yardy (30/3/09)

Screwtop said:


> *Used concrete expansion jointing here, held on with 50mm tape all from Bunnings, this was then covered with cheap car windscreen insulation, the silver lined bubble wrap type, again taped up with 50mm silver coloured PVC tape. Cheap and effective, sure takes care of those Endo and Exo thingys
> 
> Screwy*






TidalPete said:


> *Yardy,
> 
> If it's not too late I would like to add my 2 bob's worth.
> I'm in the middle of replacing my cooler mash tun with a similar model to yours & have splurged out on a length of 1000mm wide aluminium backed rudder sheeting from Clark Rubber. A 1300mm length will be enough to cover the outside + top & bottom of your mash tun. A little pricey at $24.00 metre but gives a good bling factor.
> ...




Thanks Screwy & TP, plenty of ideas now, may go with the concrete expansion and some 100 mph tape, gotta go, halfway through the Vienna Lager boil  

thanks again guys

Cheers
Yard


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## dreamboat (30/3/09)

I use polystyrene and I love it. If you can find the right place, they can cut it to shape for you. 
I have two semi-circles which sit face to face around my mash tun - around 50mm thick - and with a nice flat base to go right to the outside of the polystyrene. Costs bugger all to get made as I think they charge based on the volume of material used. The off cuts get remade into more big lumps and goes around again.


dreamboat


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## Ross (30/3/09)

TidalPete said:


> Yardy,
> 
> If it's not too late I would like to add my 2 bob's worth.
> I'm in the middle of replacing my cooler mash tun with a similar model to yours & have splurged out on a length of 1000mm wide aluminium backed rudder sheeting from Clark Rubber. A 1300mm length will be enough to cover the outside + top & bottom of your mash tun. A little pricey at $24.00 metre but gives a good bling factor.
> ...




Pete, what's rudder sheeting - used on boats maybe :huh:


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## crundle (30/3/09)

Reading this thread with interest, I was wondering if any BIABers using 40 litre urns have made insulating covers for their urns. If so, anyone got something of their experiences to share, or photos?

I am wondering if it is safe to use with an electric urn or not. I was thinking of going the Clark rubber path, but dont want to use anything that will melt onto the outside of the urn, as SWMBO would still like to be able to use it occasionally for its original design purpose (apparently they are for boiling water for tea and coffee, not mashing and boiling wort. The removable types of covering are sounding good, but does polystyrene melt to the metal at all?

cheers,

Crundle


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## Bribie G (30/3/09)

I now do 90 minute mashes with my Urn and attempting a 120 min mash today as it's got a kilo of maize in it, so I'm performing a long mash as an insurance policy.

Anyway, with 90 minute mash I lose about 2 degrees using idea from Pollux:

Slip a kids camping sleeping bag over the urn
Wrap the whole thing in a doonah (I have an old feather single doonah that I also use for cool ale fermenting)

Strap it and walk away for an hour or two.

If you aren't interested in 'pretty' it works just perfectly and takes me thirty seconds flat to wrap it up.


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## staggalee (30/3/09)

I found the removalists felt blankets make ideal insulating material. They come in a couple of different thicknesses, the heavier one is obviously more efficient.
A decent pair of scissors will cut them to shape.

stagga.


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## TidalPete (30/3/09)

Ross said:


> Pete, what's rudder sheeting - used on boats maybe :huh:



:lol: Thanks for pointing that out Ross. All fixed now.
BTW, a ss Guinness keg holds 30 litres & could well be a collectors item for anyone who has one.

TP


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## SJW (30/3/09)

> thanks SJW, any idea of approx $$$ you paid ?
> 
> 
> nice rig btw
> ...



It aint cheap. About $50 for one sheet. Now one sheet is about 1.2 square but it will do a std 50 litre keg + a circle for the bottle with a little left over. 
The advantage with this stuff is its "closed cell costruction" that has excellent insulation properties, also being 25mm thick you cant feel any heat on the outside, unlike other stuff I tryed.

Steve


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## dreamboat (30/3/09)

Not in the last 5 or so years it hasn't.




crundle said:


> SNIP
> 
> The removable types of covering are sounding good, but does polystyrene melt to the metal at all?
> 
> ...


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## WitWonder (30/3/09)

TidalPete said:


> Yardy,
> 
> If it's not too late I would like to add my 2 bob's worth.
> I'm in the middle of replacing my cooler mash tun with a similar model to yours & have splurged out on a length of 1000mm wide aluminium backed rubber sheeting from Clark Rubber. A 1300mm length will be enough to cover the outside + top & bottom of your mash tun. A little pricey at $24.00 metre but gives a good bling factor.
> ...



TP I have the same stuff - you've got the silver lining facing away from the vessel? This is the way I thought it should go but asking the staff at Clark Rubber they said it should go with the silver lining contacting the vessel.


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## crundle (30/3/09)

BribieG said:


> I now do 90 minute mashes with my Urn and attempting a 120 min mash today as it's got a kilo of maize in it, so I'm performing a long mash as an insurance policy.
> 
> Anyway, with 90 minute mash I lose about 2 degrees using idea from Pollux:
> 
> ...



I might have to give this a crack on my next one BribieG to see how well it will work for me. I have been having some issues with hitting my gravities, and thought that it might be an idea for me to be doing more stirring during the mash than I have been. Pretty isn't a factor to my brewing, so the doonah and sleeping bag might be what I am after.

When you mash and are seeking 66 degrees, what temp do you normally set the water for - 68, and then it is ok to drop 2 degrees over 90 minutes?

thanks for your continued help to a new AGer,

Crundle


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## TidalPete (30/3/09)

WitWonder said:


> TP I have the same stuff - you've got the silver lining facing away from the vessel? This is the way I thought it should go but asking the staff at Clark Rubber they said it should go with the silver lining contacting the vessel.



Too late WitWonder. 
I have already punched the holes for the HE inlet, outlet & temp gauge & it will not work in reverse. 
Not too worried though as I can't really see much of a difference in temperature loss occurring anyway but thanks for letting me know.

TP


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## Bribie G (30/3/09)

crundle said:


> I might have to give this a crack on my next one BribieG to see how well it will work for me. I have been having some issues with hitting my gravities, and thought that it might be an idea for me to be doing more stirring during the mash than I have been. Pretty isn't a factor to my brewing, so the doonah and sleeping bag might be what I am after.
> 
> When you mash and are seeking 66 degrees, what temp do you normally set the water for - 68, and then it is ok to drop 2 degrees over 90 minutes?
> 
> ...



It's now about 4pm Banjo Playin' time and I've just hoisted the bag after a two hour mash and pleased to report with the sleeping bag and doonah I've had a 2 degree - bang -on drop over that time. The cruicial time is probably the first half hour or so, the rest being fine tuning. What I have been finding with an urn Biab brew is that 4 degrees more with the strike water is perfect for a biggish grain bill such as 5.5k like I normally use, but with something smaller like 4k then maybe 3 degrees. At the end of the day a degree more or less isn't going to hurt as long as you are mashing in the sweet range from 64 to 68.

:icon_offtopic: Re gravity. Try this. Hoist the bag and drain six or eight litres of the first runnings into a stockpot. Lower the bag and top up with six to eight litres of very hot water, say over 80, and stir like buggery then let it rest for ten minutes. Then hoist again, drain and squeeze etc and of course start the power up again. Then when you have got all you can from the bag, pour the first runnings back into the urn and do a good long boil of at least 90 mins to get the wort quantity back down to where it should be.

It's a cross between a batch sparge and a mashout but gets a bit of extra goodness out of the grain bill.

Edit: of course you need something for the mash water as well, like a ten buck Sams warehouse stockpot, cant have too many stockpots in this game :lol: 

Cheers


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## yardy (30/3/09)

couldn't find any aeroflex but came across _*Abelflex*_, looks like it would do the job.

cheers


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## bradsbrew (30/3/09)

TidalPete said:


> Yardy,
> 
> If it's not too late I would like to add my 2 bob's worth.
> I'm in the middle of replacing my cooler mash tun with a similar model to yours & have splurged out on a length of 1000mm wide aluminium backed rubber sheeting from Clark Rubber. A 1300mm length will be enough to cover the outside + top & bottom of your mash tun. A little pricey at $24.00 metre but gives a good bling factor.
> ...


Got pics of this for us Pete, sounds like a good product.

Brad


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## TidalPete (30/3/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Got pics of this for us Pete, sounds like a good product.
> 
> Brad



Will take a pic in the morning Brad. It's still not attached to the MT as my Ebay Velcro hasn't arrived yet.

Tp


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## oldbugman (30/3/09)

Ross said:


> Pete, what's rudder sheeting - used on boats maybe :huh:


Nah it's the insulation my mate kevin put in your roof for free.


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## porky (30/3/09)

yardy said:


> heading to bunnings tomorrow, can some of the learned here tell me what the stick on insulation is called
> 
> Cheers
> Yard




two pages later.....are you glad you asked??
jeez


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## monkale (30/3/09)

My two cents, the insulation on my mash tun is heat sheild for engine bay insulation great thermo properties cheap enough from any foam & rubber shop,oh and its got good sticky contact on one side handles the heat works a treat
Cheers


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## Screwtop (30/3/09)

monkale said:


> My two cents, the insulation on my mash tun is heat sheild for engine bay insulation great thermo properties cheap enough from any foam & rubber shop,oh and its got good sticky contact on one side handles the heat works a treat
> Cheers
> 
> 
> ...




Geez that's purdy, I know a bloke named Geoff who would have nothin but somethin like that. Noice mate, and great to hear from you.

Screwy


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## monkale (30/3/09)

Screwtop said:


> Geez that's purdy, I know a bloke named Geoff who would have nothin but somethin like that. Noice mate, and great to hear from you.
> 
> Screwy




Thanks screwy must be about time to catch with you and Bindi and drink some good beers 
Cheers


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## browndog (30/3/09)

Yes, good to hear from you stranger!

cheers

Browndog


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## TidalPete (30/3/09)

monkale said:


> My two cents, the insulation on my mash tun is heat sheild for engine bay insulation great thermo properties cheap enough from any foam & rubber shop,oh and its got good sticky contact on one side handles the heat works a treat
> Cheers
> 
> 
> ...



Monkale,

Back from the dead hey?  
That stuff is very, very similar to what I got from Clark rubber except that mine does not have an adhesive backing which is good because I want to be able to take mine off when I need to. :icon_cheers: 

TP


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## TidalPete (31/3/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Got pics of this for us Pete, sounds like a good product.
> 
> Brad



Like I said above Brad, almost a carbon copy of Monkale's but without the adhesive.

TP


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## yardy (31/3/09)

TidalPete said:


> *Like I said above Brad, almost a carbon copy of Monkale's but without the adhesive.
> 
> TP*




Hey TP & Monkale,

can you give me the product name it's sold under please ?

I'll get the Handbrake to grab me some next time she's in town B) 

seems to be more user friendly than wrapping the aero/abelflex.

Cheers
Yard


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## TidalPete (31/3/09)

yardy said:


> Hey TP & Monkale,
> 
> can you give me the product name it's sold under please ?
> 
> ...



Yardy,

There was no product info on the roll at Clark Rubber. if you're keen to find out take a printout of one of the pics with you.
If you find out can you let me know for future reference.

TP


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## yardy (31/3/09)

no problem TP

cheers


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## Damian44 (6/4/09)

Has anyone tried Nitrile from Clark Rubber? Its a bit pricy at $50 for 6mm x 1m x 1.2.
Its primary use is for quietening engine noise.


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## TidalPete (6/4/09)

WitWonder said:


> TP I have the same stuff - you've got the silver lining facing away from the vessel? This is the way I thought it should go but asking the staff at Clark Rubber they said it should go with the silver lining contacting the vessel.


WitWonder,

Take a Captain at Monkale's pic in Post 40.



> My two cents, the insulation on my mash tun is heat sheild for engine bay insulation great thermo properties cheap enough from any foam & rubber shop,oh and its got good sticky contact on one side handles the heat works a treat



As I said before, it should not make much difference which way the insulation goes on if Monkale's insulation is manufactured with adhesive on the rubber side.

TP


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## BennyBrewster (10/6/09)

TidalPete said:


> As I said before, it should not make much difference which way the insulation goes on if Monkale's insulation is manufactured with adhesive on the rubber side.
> 
> TP



Thats because its designed to stick to the panel inside the engine bay with the foil side facing the hot engine. The guys from clark rubber were correct.


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## brettprevans (14/7/09)

anyone in melbourne area got any tun insulation left over that I can beg, borrow, steal, bribe from you?


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## razz (15/7/09)

I think I have some foil backed insulation in my shed CM2
Yep, still there. It came of my old gas hot water service, it's 1400mm x 1300mm.
Bat style insulation with foil on one side.


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## brettprevans (15/7/09)

sweet Razz. that would do the trick. dont suppose you come in the eastern burbs way often?

I'll PM you to take this offline and keep it on topic.


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