# AHB Articles: Desktop brewery - 2 vessel



## MaltyHops (27/10/10)

This is the discussion topic for article: Desktop brewery - 2 vessel

G'day - have been thinking about designing/building a small footprint 2 vessel brewery and need to look at getting a cooler quickly so have created the article sooner than planned.

My question right now is what drawbacks there might be with using a rectangular shaped cooler (readily availble) versus a round head cooler (needs to be ordered in)?





vs THIS Coleman cooler


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## bignath (27/10/10)

Maltyhops,

i use that exact same cooler (rectangular blue one - pictured) as my mash tun. It's great. Easy to lug around, takes almost 40lt, and the tap unscrews really easy. I've replaced the tap with a 1/2 inch ball valve, and some threaded copper pipe. Copper manifold inside and it works really well. 

Most sessions the temp seems to be stable to within 1 degree over a 60min mash. Sometimes i've had it hold temp within .2 of a degree. 

There is a small hole on the inside of the lid near the seal, which i push my temp probe through, down into the mash, so i have a digital thermometer readout that sits on top of the sealed esky while mashing so i can see the temp easily. The inside of the esky also has markings for litres (although i doubt they are super accurate) but probably accurate enough to use as a rough guide. Just be sure to clean these indented markers as spent grain can hide in there a bit, but otherwise it's a great esky for mashing.

Go get one i reckon.


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## MaltyHops (27/10/10)

Thanks Nath,

It's actually the 19L one I'm looking at .. and I do like the little channel at
the bottom that allows the tap to be lower/at level with bottom of cooler.

I've read that the round coolers with screwtop lids are more efficient at
keeping temperatures though.

And the square shape could make it easier to fit a copper tubing made
manifold but I was also thinking maybe of those grain/husk screens -
they're usually round but could probably cut into a square shape?

t.


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## MaltyHops (1/11/10)

G'day,

Well, I've put together something coherent in the article (_HERE_) and would
welcome comments.

One thing I'm thinking about is using a Tempmate to control the heating
element and wondering why this might not work? Guess there could be an
issue of overheating the Tempmate during a long boil including the startup
boil of cold water but could just bypass the Tempmate for this stage and
only use the Tempmate once the required temperatures are nearly reached.

T.





..


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## Bribie G (1/11/10)

When boiling where would the clouds of steam go? Hood / small extractor fan??? If boiling in an enclosed space especially in winter there would be heaps of condensation.


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## MaltyHops (1/11/10)

Thanks BribieG,

I had thought about the steam that would be given off and attaching some kind
of flat shroud on the underside of the MLT shelf at a bit of an angle could help
to direct any droplets forming above the K/HLT into a collecting tray.

If there's not exhaust fan in an indoor brewing area, could just move the whole
thing outside during the boil stage.

T.


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## raven19 (10/11/10)

MaltyHops said:


> One thing I'm thinking about is using a Tempmate to control the heating
> element and wondering why this might not work? Guess there could be an
> issue of overheating the Tempmate...



The tempmate works fine in a HERMS system as you have a volume of water in a pot, and any overshoot is minimal due to the volume of water in the HERMS pot. Essentially the tempmate does not have the ability to flick on/off quickly as it approaches the temperature set, hence its liable to overshoot the target temp. There is some good further info in the 'dedicated HERMS thread'.

In a RIMS situation (similar to your setup proposed) you really need a PID controller (with an SSR and Heatsink). You can pick one up off ebay for a cheaper price than a tempmate too, or go an Auberins which are the beez kneez (cdbrown and others all use the Auberins and they work well for them from all reports). The PID is programmable and when calibrated will significantly reduce any overshoot of temperature. I find mine does not overshoot at all now its calibrated.


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## raven19 (10/11/10)

Linky: Dedicated HERMS thread


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## MaltyHops (10/11/10)

Thanks for the feedback Raven - I wasn't aware of the overshoot issue
originally and even so, the Tempmate option will do to start with - lots of
close watching of the temperature and manually turning off the element
as target temp is neared, or even set the Tempmate target temp to
somewhere below the desired and then manually turn element on/off.

Could order an Auberins PID soon with the Au$ going the way it is at
present.

If anyone else around Adelaide is thinking about ordering from Auberins,
sing out - might be opportunities to save on combined postage.

Tom.


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## stew.w (11/11/10)

with the steam i had the same issue with my rig as the kettle is directly under the hlt.
i just got a hook and while im doing the boil i hang the lid above the pot slightly of centre so the steam comdensates on that and drops on the ground.
will eventually do something more permanent but for now it works fine.

cheers,

Stewart


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## drsmurto (11/11/10)

@ BigNath - where did you get the large cooler from?

Am contemplating going from a rectangular esky to a taller style to increase grain bed depth and switching to fly sparging. Single batches in a 55L esky is quite inefficient.


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## MaltyHops (11/11/10)

DrSmurto said:


> @ BigNath - where did you get the large cooler from?
> 
> Am contemplating going from a rectangular esky to a taller style to increase grain bed depth and switching to fly sparging. Single batches in a 55L esky is quite inefficient.


Here's a link to the Coolers page of Discount Camping (at Pooraka) where I got my 19L
one from (and cheaper than everywhere else) - I dont think they normally have the 38L
one in store but can probably order it in.

T.


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## bignath (11/11/10)

DrSmurto said:


> @ BigNath - where did you get the large cooler from?
> 
> Am contemplating going from a rectangular esky to a taller style to increase grain bed depth and switching to fly sparging. Single batches in a 55L esky is quite inefficient.



Hi mate, i got mine from the local camping outdoors place. I live in a regional centre in SA population around 25,000 and as such we don't really have any of the big name chains outside of target and kmart. Think i paid about $105 on special for it. I think they retail at around $149. Pretty good mash tun. Usually do the standard 60min, and i regularly keep mash temp within .5 of a degree. Capacity is 38litres from memory.

It has a small hole in the underside of the lid next to the rubber seal, and this allows me to use a probe thermometer in my mash bed, and monitor it digitally from the outside display. 

overall, i'm very happy with it. I have just acquired 2 kegs, so if i only had one complaint, is that it would be better if it was 50litre esky to make double batches easier, but i can work around the 38lt and still do a double (read 40lt) into fermenters to fill two kegs with the gear i have....

Oh, and the tap comes out really easy, 1/2 ball valve goes straight in, good fit, 5 min job at most...


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## MaltyHops (2/2/12)

After well over a year since starting on this project, I did the inaugural brew on my recently
completed system last night (my 3rd AG brew, having been helped out by Hatchy & Raven
in the past) - a DrSmurto Golden Ale. 

Effciency was rather bad (60%? according to Beersmith, got pre-boil of 1.036 from a 3.2kg
grain bill in 18L) possibly due to too coarse a crush (MLT/manifold was draining runnings at
a rate of knots) and/or the post-mash recirculation rinse wasn't long enough. Ended up with
~14L post-oil at 1.043 - the Amarillo hoppy goodness of the wort going into fermenter was
pretty nice - looking forward to see how it turns out

From the pictures, you could say I do BIAB also - Brew In A Bathroom! But shhh! don't tell
anyone I brew in the poo room h34r: , promise not to do the two things at the same time!
It is the only room I have with tiled floor, has good water access and designed to cope with
lots of steam so will have to do for now

Brewday took much longer than what I think it ought to due to learning to use the system
along the way, trying to figure out the amount of power to apply to the heating element to
get a good boil without a boilover.

Heaps more info on build and piccies at _Desktop brewery - 2 vessel_.


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## raven19 (2/2/12)

Excellent mate, its been a while coming!


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## MaltyHops (3/2/12)

Thanks Ravs ... and congrats on going green :beer: 

BTW - did you ever looked into how strong the March pump outlets are?
I was concerned about mine but you've got heaps more metal hanging off
your March pump.


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## Malted (3/2/12)

Hello T,
looking great mate. 2 question streams.
(1) So it recircs from MT to the HLT/Kettle and back to top of the mash in the MT, with the HLT/Kettle element working like a RIMS pot to heat the wort as it recirculates? You also mention sparging. What vessell does the sparge water come from if you have wort in the HLT/Kettle? 
(2) It seems like Wyeast stopped selling Pacman in 2010. Did you have a smack pack left over?


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## BOG (3/2/12)

Quick question.

Where did you source the IP56 Enclosure from ??

How much?


BOG


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## raven19 (3/2/12)

MaltyHops said:


> BTW - did you ever looked into how strong the March pump outlets are?
> I was concerned about mine but you've got heaps more metal hanging off
> your March pump.



Pretty stong, however being a plastic it would be brittle and crack if put under too much strain I would imagine.

I need to fix my plumbing to take weight off the motor, but I only have a few fittings hanging off my pump atm. Two inlets, and one outlet.


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## MaltyHops (3/2/12)

Thanks B.



Malted said:


> Hello T,
> looking great mate. 2 question streams.
> (1) So it recircs from MT to the HLT/Kettle and back to top of the mash in the MT, with the
> HLT/Kettle element working like a RIMS pot to heat the wort as it recirculates? You also
> ...


Yes, I think the system can be used RIMS like (there needs to be over 5L of liquid in the KHLT
to cover the heating element tho **) and "stepped" (since it takes a minute or two to raise fluid
by a degree leaving control up to the PID) is possible. Another simplest way (as in inaug brew)
is to heat the sparge water in the KHLT which is then recirculated through the MLT for mash
out.

The system is meant to suffer in efficiency since the sparge phase is a continous recycling of
the wort. I'm thinking this could possibly be improved by collecting the really high gravity first
runnings and set aside (& boiled a bit to mash out) before sparging the grains.

Another option is to heat water in the KHLT to 90C and pump that into a cube for temporary
holding while the 2 vessels then get used for recycling type activities.

[ ** actually just remembered an idea I had before to put a water filled steel jug/pot into the
KHLT to take up some volume so the min amount liquid required could be lower. ]



> (2) It seems like Wyeast stopped selling Pacman in 2010. Did you have a smack pack left over?


Washed slurry from a bit of an experimental brew a few months ago using a slant/starter.
I think a few of the Adelaide crew have Pacman in their collections.


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## MaltyHops (3/2/12)

BOG said:


> Quick question.
> Where did you source the IP56 Enclosure from ??
> How much?
> BOG


I got the control box enclosure from one of the Rexel chain of sparky supply stores
in SA ((08)82021800, their cat# is Gewiss GW44208_GEW) for ~$27. A sparky mate
could probably get it cheaper - go to sparky supply stores and see what they got.


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## BOG (3/2/12)

MaltyHops said:


> I got the control box enclosure from one of the Rexel chain of sparky supply stores
> in SA ((08)82021800, their cat# is Gewiss GW44208_GEW) for ~$27. A sparky mate
> could probably get it cheaper - go to sparky supply stores and see what they got.



Found it thanks.

$48 via their online store.


BOG


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