# Nsw Amateur Brewing Competition



## schooey

Hunter United Brewers are pleased to announce that they will be hosting the NSW Amateur Brewing Championships for 2011. The competition will be the NSW qualifier for the AABC in Adelaide in October *and will be held over the weekend of 27th & 28th August, 2011* at the following venue;

Hunter Beer Co at Potters Brewery
Wine Country Drive
Nulkaba NSW 2325

Judging will commence from 10am on both days.

*ENTRIES WILL CLOSE WEDNESDAY 17th AUGUST 2011*

Entries can be dropped off at the following locations;

Daves Home Brew, North Sydney
Absolute Home Brew, St Marys
ESB, Peakhurst
Marks Home Brew, Islington

The competition will be held in conjunction with Maitland Hunter Valley Tourism and the Bitter & Twisted Beer Festival. This will include the Best of Show Beer being commercially brewed* at Murray's Brewery and will be showcased at the Bitter & Twisted Boutique Beer Festival at Maitland Gaol on the 5th & 6th November 2011. Other category winners will also be given the opportunity to re-brew their beer and have it showcased at Bitter & Twisted. A fantastic promotional opportunity for Homebrew and a big feather in the cap of any winner! Also, the brewer/s of the BOS beer will have their beer sponsored into the American Homebrewers Association's National Homebrew Competition.There are some great prizes on offer; further details will follow closer to the competition date.

Entries will be $7 per entry and will be judged to AABC guidelines. Full details and entry forms are available here

Any enquiries or any brewers who wish to volunteer or steward for the competition, can be registered at *[email protected] *Limited accommodation will be available at the venue and BJCP qualified judges will be eligible for subsidised accommodation from the host club. Lunch will be provided for all volunteers on both days, and if there are enough people interested, there is the possibility of a Saturday night event.

Good Luck All, and get brewing!

* _Conditions apply to the brewing of the winning beer i.e. reasonable cost of ingredients. For example, a beer that contains 50kg of black truffles will obviously be outside what is considered reasonable cost of ingredients._


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## leeboy

Its back! Nice one fellas. Looking forward to getting some entries together!


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## MattC

schooey said:


> ....... a beer that contains 50kg of black truffles will obviously be outside what is considered reasonable cost of ingredients......



I had better change my recipe..... :huh:


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## schooey

Pretty sure if you can afford the 50kg of truffles for the first brew, you'll be right to swing some to Shawn to do your beer at Murray's on your own tab....


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## MattC

Yeah your prob right Schooey..  

Just a query, the flyer says 14 th for closing of entries but the post says 17th, is the flyer a typo?

cheers


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## schooey

MattC said:


> Yeah your prob right Schooey..
> 
> Just a query, the flyer says 14 th for closing of entries but the post says 17th, is the flyer a typo?
> 
> cheers




Oooops!

Thanks for the pick up, Matt, *The closing date is definitely the 17th August*!. Amended Flyer attached...




Apologies for any inconvenience caused


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## [email protected]

This is shaping up to be a pretty fun event. It would be pretty nice to have my beer brewed by Murrays for a beer festival..

Booz


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## waggastew

Can entires be made by post ie post the bottles, entry form and fee to one of the above 'drop off' locations?


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## [email protected]

waggastew said:


> Can entires be made by post ie post the bottles, entry form and fee to one of the above 'drop off' locations?



We're in the process of finalising the entry pack and it should be available soon. It will have the finalised drop off points, mailing details and so on. Any queries please PM me.

Cheers

Booz


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## Korev

Excellent news - will the competition be registered with the BJCP?

Cheers
Peter


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## schooey

Korev said:


> Excellent news - will the competition be registered with the BJCP?
> 
> Cheers
> Peter


 
Hi Peter, 

Yes, the competition has already been registered with the BJCP and all judges and stewards will be eligible for experience points.

Cheers,

Tony


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## Fatgodzilla

schooey said:


> View attachment 46583
> 
> 
> well done HUBs - I'm sure it will be a well run event. If I can make it, I'm there.


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## Maxt

Any more news on posting entries to this comp?


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## schooey

Hi Max,

We hope to have drop off points finalised by the end of this week, as well as a central mailing/freight point for entries that need to be posted or combined entries that clubs may wish to freight together. Keep an eye out here or at the HUB website or follow HUB on twitter (@HUBrewers) for updates.

Cheers,

schooey


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## BOG

Bugger, just noticed this post.

only 6 weeks left. Timing will be tight...nothing dark can be brewed now.

Must brew next weekend...



BOG


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## Maxt

schooey said:


> Hi Max,
> 
> We hope to have drop off points finalised by the end of this week,
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> schooey



BUMP


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## mje1980

BOG said:


> Bugger, just noticed this post.
> 
> only 6 weeks left. Timing will be tight...nothing dark can be brewed now.
> 
> Must brew next weekend...
> 
> 
> 
> BOG




Why can't you brew something dark? I get stuck into my milds as soon as they are gassed up, which is usually 8 days after pitching.

I've actually got a beer for entering!. I think 2005 was the last time i entered a beer in the state haha.


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## beer slayer

Hi Guys
Just wanting to confirm that dates are still the 27th and 28th of August.
Will the judging be carried out over these two days or will there be some judging on the Friday
26th.?
Cheers
BS


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## schooey

Hi All,

I can confirm drop off points as follows;

The Brew Shop / ESB - Peakurst
Dave's Home Brew - North Sydney
Mark's Home Brew - Islington
Absolute Home Brew - St Marys
Amber Nectar - Toukley


All postal entries can be forwarded to;

NSWABC
c/- Mark's Home Brew
18 Maitland Road
Islington NSW 2296

If any NSW clubs wish to organise bulk pick ups/postage that would be appreciated.

Cheers,

schooey


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## schooey

beer slayer said:


> Hi Guys
> Just wanting to confirm that dates are still the 27th and 28th of August.
> Will the judging be carried out over these two days or will there be some judging on the Friday
> 26th.?
> Cheers
> BS



Hi BS,

We are still finalising the possibility of doing some pre-judging of the event on Friday to enable the hosting of a Dinner event/presentation on Saturday evening. Details to come very soon if we manage to pull it off.

Cheers,

schooey


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## Fatgodzilla

Well done HUBs in advance for what I know will be a well run event - but can you change the dates please.  Unavailable that weekend. :icon_cheers:


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## Josh

Fatgodzilla said:


> Well done HUBs in advance for what I know will be a well run event - but can you change the dates please.  Unavailable that weekend. :icon_cheers:



Ditto. My football team have done the right thing and looks like we won't be playing in the finals this year. But I'm working both days of the weekend, so can't make it unfortunately.

I have a couple of beers worth entering though.


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## Muggus

Heads up to anyone considering entering, we're reaching the 3 week mark until entries can be dropped off. Possibly a good time to get cracking on that last minute hefeweizen or APA, and force carbing it!



Also a heads up to anyone considering judging/stewarding/helping out this year. 
We're going to be commensing up the judging on the *Friday, the 26th of August*.

This being the case, we can hopefully get everything out of the way by Sunday, leaving any out of towners a whole day to enjoy the sites of the beautiful Hunter Valley, and plenty of time to get home.
If you're available on the Friday and keen to help, give us a bell!


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## pimpsqueak

I have a noob question or 2 about the entry form (1st time I have filled one out...)

The form calls for a "Bottle Cap ID", do we just dream one up on our own, or is it for organisers to determine?

The bottle labels call for a "Class" and a "Class Description". Is this supposed to be the Category and sub-category?
ie: Class = 4 and Class Description = Amber & Dark Lager?

Confused <_<


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## Brend0

I am thinking of entering a couple of beers for the first time, was just wondering how it all works on the day? Is it just judging that takes place at the brewery and a piss up? How many people usually turn up? :icon_cheers:


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## brewn00b

Have never entered a comp before and was wondering if a single long neck is appropriate? I noticed that it mentions two rounds of judging so would I need to provide two long necks?
Cheers


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## pimpsqueak

brewn00b said:


> Have never entered a comp before and was wondering if a single long neck is appropriate? I noticed that it mentions two rounds of judging so would I need to provide two long necks?
> Cheers



Direct from the pdf on the HUB website... "Each entry is to be a minimum of 2 x 330 ml bottles (or equivalent) to provide sufficient samples for two rounds of judging."


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## brewn00b

pimpsqueak said:


> Direct from the pdf on the HUB website... "Each entry is to be a minimum of 2 x 330 ml bottles (or equivalent) to provide sufficient samples for two rounds of judging."



Yeh, I figure one long neck has the required volume but my concern is that these two rounds of judging will be at different times? Even with a pet screw top I'd prob want two separate bottles?


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## pimpsqueak

It seems that the second bottle will be required if your beer wins it's category. It would then be judged against all the other category winners for "Beer of Show"


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## MattC

pimpsqueak said:


> I have a noob question or 2 about the entry form (1st time I have filled one out...)
> 
> The form calls for a "Bottle Cap ID", do we just dream one up on our own, or is it for organisers to determine?
> 
> The bottle labels call for a "Class" and a "Class Description". Is this supposed to be the Category and sub-category?
> ie: Class = 4 and Class Description = Amber & Dark Lager?
> 
> Confused <_<



My guess would be that as each entry should be wrapped around each bottle and attached with an elastic band, in the event that the label becomes detached from the bottle in transit (relevant when sending in more than one entry), the label can be married back up to the correct bottle through the bottle cap ID.

As far as the class and class description goes, I think you are correct. It would be the same as the Cat number and Cat description.

Im happy to be corrected though!!

Cheers


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## MattC

brewn00b said:


> Have never entered a comp before and was wondering if a single long neck is appropriate? I noticed that it mentions two rounds of judging so would I need to provide two long necks?
> Cheers






pimpsqueak said:


> Direct from the pdf on the HUB website... "Each entry is to be a minimum of 2 x 330 ml bottles (or equivalent) to provide sufficient samples for two rounds of judging."



Yeah I was wondering this also. I am reading it that a 700ml PET bottle (which I use) is equivalent to a minimum 2 x 330ml bottles. So I guess they will recap the PET bottles, and save half if required for the second round of judging. If PET bottles are opened and quickly recapped they would lose a minimal amount of carbonation over the course of the judging period. 

Not sure what would happen with a glass longneck with a crown seal though. Some clarification on this one might be of assistance?????

Cheers


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## pimpsqueak

MattC said:


> My guess would be that as each entry should be wrapped around each bottle and attached with an elastic band, in the event that the label becomes detached from the bottle in transit (relevant when sending in more than one entry), the label can be married back up to the correct bottle through the bottle cap ID.


That's a fair assumption, my problem is, what should the ID actually be? I'm assuming a random 3-digit number would be fine, but unless the number is unique it could lead to a whole new problem.


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## Tony

I have a few entries ready and one late one clearing up a bit in the fridge before i carb her up 

Its been a lot of years since i had a crack at the NSW comp...... and im really liiking forward to getting some feedback on my beers!

I dont really have access to any of the drop off points though.......so....... maybe i will enter :unsure:


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## Blackapple

Think I'll enter a couple of bottles.
Never entered a comp before.
Guess the worst that can happen is they tell me my beer tastes like shit.

Never heard that before! :icon_cheers:


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## MattC

pimpsqueak said:


> That's a fair assumption, my problem is, what should the ID actually be? I'm assuming a random 3-digit number would be fine, but unless the number is unique it could lead to a whole new problem.



I would keep it simple and label the bottle A and put A in the "bottle cap ID" box for the corresponding entry for that beer, next one label B and so forth. That way you are using letters and all other details should be numbers for cat and style numbers on the entry form. I think thats what I might do unless im told otherwise..


Cheers


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## Tony

Blackapple said:


> Think I'll enter a couple of bottles.
> Never entered a comp before.
> Guess the worst that can happen is they tell me my beer tastes like shit.
> 
> Never heard that before! :icon_cheers:



They wont tell you it tastes like shit but if there are any faults they will usually pick them and list them for you..... which is always valuable information to use to improve your brewing.

Some people read the judge feedback for the praise of a good beer.......... i read them for the feedabck on problems if they are present so i can improve.

This for me is the main attraction of enterng comps....... the feedback, good or bad from a trained person.

The other thing to remember is that the beers are not judged on which tastes best...... its all about which is brewed closest to style, they still have to taste good but the main thing is brewing to style for competition!

cheers


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## shmick

MattC said:


> Yeah I was wondering this also. I am reading it that a 700ml PET bottle (which I use) is equivalent to a minimum 2 x 330ml bottles. So I guess they will recap the PET bottles, and save half if required for the second round of judging. If PET bottles are opened and quickly recapped they would lose a minimal amount of carbonation over the course of the judging period.
> 
> Not sure what would happen with a glass longneck with a crown seal though. Some clarification on this one might be of assistance?????
> 
> Cheers



Best to enter 2 bottles if you can manage it.

Usually the stewards will pour the entire bottle into a jug (less the trub) then take it to the judging table to serve into sample cups. The bottles are then discarded at the end of the flight.

Judging will be split over 2 days with BOS round coming at the end of the second day. AFAIK there are no facilities for saving/re-capping/storing opened entries.

If you only enter one bottle, there will be nothing to judge for BOS if you make it thru  .

Cheers


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## MattC

Well that throws a spanner in the works. Means i will have to send in two 700ml PET bottles per entry (double the weight and close to double freight) to be in contention for BOS. bugger. Most of my entries are bottled and ready to send! May have to forfeit my chances ( albeit slim) of jagging BOS.

Cheers


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## silvana

HUB

Can someone reply to my emails.

Im happy to come and help steward but if Im going to take a day off work for it I need some details such as times and if there are any accomodation arrangements as I will be coming from Sydney.

I have sent emails last week to the HUB email listed and PM some people from this thread but no response.......

Cheers

Ben


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## pimpsqueak

MattC said:


> I would keep it simple and label the bottle A and put A in the "bottle cap ID" box for the corresponding entry for that beer, next one label B and so forth. That way you are using letters and all other details should be numbers for cat and style numbers on the entry form. I think thats what I might do unless im told otherwise..
> 
> 
> Cheers


Well ok then. I just hope we don't enter the same style of beer, because if the fates conspire and there's a huge rubber band failure, we'll have identical codes.


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## barls

pimpsqueak said:


> Well ok then. I just hope we don't enter the same style of beer, because if the fates conspire and there's a huge rubber band failure, we'll have identical codes.


the id number is what they put on your bottle once they receive it. so leave it blank


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## Muggus

Yogi Beer said:


> HUB
> 
> Can someone reply to my emails.
> 
> Im happy to come and help steward but if Im going to take a day off work for it I need some details such as times and if there are any accomodation arrangements as I will be coming from Sydney.
> 
> I have sent emails last week to the HUB email listed and PM some people from this thread but no response.......
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ben


PM Sent
Sorry about the wait Ben!


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## silvana

Muggus said:


> PM Sent
> Sorry about the wait Ben!




All good Muggus

locked in now and looking forward to it


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## pimpsqueak

barls said:


> the id number is what they put on your bottle once they receive it. so leave it blank


Ah hah! It seems my confusion stems from the fact that it doesn't say "Organiser use only" in that box.

Now for your bonus round... what is the "Class" and "Class Description" on the labels?


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## barls

class will be the style number and description will be the style name.
muggus thats right isnt it


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## pimpsqueak

barls said:


> class will be the style number and description will be the style name.
> muggus thats right isnt it



Would be a lot bloody easier for us newbies if that's what it actually said.

Actually, that can't be right can it? The label also calls for "Style".
If I was to make a wild assumption then I would put the Category number for Class, Category for Class Description and obviously Style for Style.


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## KillerRx4

barls said:


> the id number is what they put on your bottle once they receive it. so leave it blank



Ahh that upsets my entries. All my bottles are numbered on caps, so I put that same number on the label/form.

Do I need to remove numbers from caps & labels?


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## barls

id say yes but best to ask those that are running the show.
normally your not allowed distinguishing marks on them.
cheers barls


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## Muggus

barls said:


> class will be the style number and description will be the style name.
> muggus thats right isnt it


Yeah that's right
It goes by the AABC Guidelines, so for instance, you have an English Best Bitter you want to put in.
It would go in Catagory 8. Bitter Ale - Style 8.2 English Best Bitter 
You don't have to refer to the Style as 8.2 if you've already determined to as being in Catagory 8...minor detail.
On the labels affixed to the bottles, for this example, it would be something like...
Class - 8
Class Description - Bitter Ale
Style - 2. English Best Bitter 

The other details....Cap ID, gravity, yeast, etc...arn't all that relevant, and the judges will have no access to this information.

All the sorting out comes down to the stewards on the day. So long as you've filled out the details right, and labelled properly, we should be able to figure it out alright. 
Also, we'll be decanting the beers into jugs for the judges to pour...so they won't even see the bottle at all.


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## MattC

If possible can someone (Muggus?) confirm that to be eligible for BOS you will need to send in 2 bottles. I ask this as my entries will consist of one 700ml PET bottle. To me this meets the criteria on the comp details which stipulates that each entry should be a minimum of 2 x 330ml bottles (or equivalent).

Cheers


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## Muggus

MattC said:


> If possible can someone (Muggus?) confirm that to be eligible for BOS you will need to send in 2 bottles. I ask this as my entries will consist of one 700ml PET bottle. To me this meets the criteria on the comp details which stipulates that each entry should be a minimum of 2 x 330ml bottles.
> 
> Cheers


To be eligiable for any sort of entry you'll 2 x 330mL bottle (or equivalent)...which basically means you CAN submit a bottle of 660mL as your entry.
However, you will run into the issue if you do submit just the one bottle, and do happen to be up for BOS and the 2nd tasting round of that beer being exposed to oxygen, losing carbonation, etc.
It'll be up to 3 judges to analyse the beer, and they may sample 100mL each, tops, so you will end up with half a bottle left in a 700mL PET...but yeah it won't be the same.
I think certainly if the stewards come across a beer that has performed very well in its Catagory, we'll try to best to reseal its original bottle with enough for judging if there's not another bottle offered.
I think if you were serious about it, i'd go with 2 bottles though.


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## MattC

Thanks for clearing that up Muggus. Appreciate the job you and the other organisers are doing! Fantastic!

Cheers


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## Muggus

MattC said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Muggus. Appreciate the job you and the other organisers are doing! Fantastic!
> 
> Cheers


No worries Matt! Appreciate it.

Like I mentioned early, alot of this does come down to the stewarding on the day. 
And apart from making sure we get all of the right beers out to the right judges in the right catagory and styles, I think giving the best chance to anyone with a chance of BOS is certainly a preference and something to take into account if they're relying on the one bottle...and lets face it, some entrants may never consider themselves a contender!


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## petesbrew

sigh... and I had quite a few bottles saved, the last tallies of certain delicious batches that I hoped were winners!
Oh well, they will be savoured by myself over the coming weeks.  
Thanks for clarifying, Muggus.


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## Muggus

Wolfy said:


> Is that because this year the 'best in show' is effectively a separate and independent competition (_Bitter & Twisted Beer Festival_), or is that usual practice for the NSW comp?


Plan is to judge the BOS on the same weekend as the State Comp,ie Saturday afternoon.

We (HUB) are working with B&T, as one of the major sponsors for the Comp, to showcase BOS and Catagory winners at the beer festival itself where possible.
As far as I know, there is no B&T competition planned. We ran it last year anyway, so doubt we'll be able to do it...


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## Josh

I'll just be sending 1 x 750ml bottle per style. If I jag an entry to BOS round, I'll take my chances.

Some styles, I only have a handful of bottles left. Winning BOS is less important to me than being able to taste one of my final bottles while reading the judging sheets.


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## 3GumsBrewing

Josh said:


> I'll just be sending 1 x 750ml bottle per style. If I jag an entry to BOS round, I'll take my chances.



Yep, same here. Especially since the majority of my beers were bottled months ago to 2 years ago. :lol:


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## waggastew

I just dropped off some entires at Dave's HB in Nth Sydney. Unfortunately he is yet to be contacted by the organisers. He is happy to take entries but would probably be happier if he also knew what was going on!

Stew


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## Fatgodzilla

:icon_offtopic: 



Muggus said:


> I think if you were serious about it, i'd go with 2 bottles though.




The truth is that if everyone submits 2 bottles, the judges and stewards have heaps of piss to drink for a week!




Just kidding.


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## Muggus

Fatgodzilla said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The truth is that if everyone submits 2 bottles, the judges and stewards have heaps of piss to drink for a week!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding.


Damn, you caught me out there Fatz...just when I thought I could get away with it...


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## warra48

Has Dave's Homebrew been put into the loop for this as yet?

Would be nice to know, as my first ever, and one and only entry was kindly dropped off there for me by waggastew.


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## waggastew

Just spoke to Dave's HB. All good, HUB got in contact yesterday so entries are good to go.

STew


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## schooey

Stew,

I spoke to Dave originally in May, and yesterday I spoke to Kevin. Kevin said that someone had come in and they had told them that they were a drop off point, but weren't sure of the cut off details or when they would be picked up. That's now been sorted, so as you say, it's all good.

If any clubs have collected a good number if entries from there members and would like us to pick them up when we collect the other entries, please let me know and we'll try and facilitate this.

Cheers,

Schooey


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## Pat Casey

And Absolute Homebrew?

Pat


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## Tony

Ahhhh crap next wednsday.............. no access to any drop off ponts..... looks like i will be drinkin em myself. I havnt even had time to get my Roggen in the keg......... DANM work 

Its good too 

Oh well ..... maybe next year


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## Brewman_

Tony,

just post em if you have to. If you lived in Tamworth that is probably what you would have to do, so just do it. This is the NSW Comp, if you don't have access.... Then WTF!

Fear


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## Tony

well im not welcome in the LHBS so im guessing my beers arnt either, and im not posting my beers to sydney to be sent back to be judged not 20 min drive from my house at potters.

Its a long sad pathetic story... dont ask.

maybe next year

Hope it all goes like clockwork and the HUB folks put on the best comp in the land!..... im sure they will!!!!!

cheers


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## KillerRx4

Pat Casey said:


> And Absolute Homebrew?
> 
> Pat



Sorted? I have a few entries I plan to drop in to the shop Monday or Tuesday arvo.


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## Silo Ted

Pat Casey said:


> And Absolute Homebrew?
> 
> Pat



:beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:


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## Pat Casey

KillerRx4 said:


> Sorted? I have a few entries I plan to drop in to the shop Monday or Tuesday arvo.



I'm closed Mondays.

Pat


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## Pat Casey

Can the organisers of this competition please contact me. I agreed to be a drop-off point some time ago and since then have heard nothing. No reply to an email of a week ago. People have been asking about leaving entries. I've told them to hang off as I haven't heard anything yet from the organisers. I do not want to be telling people in a week or so, "Sorry I still have your entries, no one came to pick them up."

Pat
Absolute Homebrew
And on bloody Facebook


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## Silo Ted

Organisers, PLEASE confirm drop off points for Sydney. It seems that a week ago Dave Gumm hadn't been contacted, Pay Casey hasn't been contacted, and who knows about the shop in the south of Sydney. I believe that none of these shops are open tomorrow so TODAY is the cut off for entries. 

Where are we supposed to take them ? The clock is ticking.


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## bigfridge

Silo Ted said:


> Organisers, PLEASE confirm drop off points for Sydney. It seems that a week ago Dave Gumm hadn't been contacted, Pay Casey hasn't been contacted, and who knows about the shop in the south of Sydney. I believe that none of these shops are open tomorrow so TODAY is the cut off for entries.
> 
> Where are we supposed to take them ? The clock is ticking.



I am not sure what contact the drop-off points are expecting, but I can assure everyone that if you have agreed to be a drop-off point then you will be contacted after the closing date to arrange for any entries received to be collected. We were not planning to check back regularly that everything is still ok.

They don't have to be up in Newcastle by the closing date - as long as they are at the shops then we can get them up here, processed and stored ready for the comp weekend.

PM me if you need any more re-assurance.


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## schooey

Silo Ted said:


> Organisers, PLEASE confirm drop off points for Sydney. It seems that a week ago Dave Gumm hadn't been contacted, Pay Casey hasn't been contacted, and who knows about the shop in the south of Sydney. I believe that none of these shops are open tomorrow so TODAY is the cut off for entries.
> 
> Where are we supposed to take them ? The clock is ticking.



Ted,

Your statement about nobody being contacted is not true. All the drop off points were contacted about being drop off points, and in that conversation I told them that I would personally pick the entries up after the dates. The details of the comp, on the flyer and in the info pack, are pretty self-explanatory, I'm not sure what else I needed to contact them for except to say hello?

I have been away for a week with work, Pat, so my apologies for not attending to your email, but I'll call you Tuesday (unless you PM me your number to contact you before) and have a chat with you then.

For the few that have enquired about EFT'ing funds for entries, the HUB bank account details are as follows;

Hunter United Brewers
BSB: 637000
Acc#: 717928016

Please ensure you use your name for the payment reference, and email your payment details to [email protected]

As it turns out, I'll be collecting the entries Next Thursday in person, so you have until COB Wedsneday to get them there, or to your local club for collation, or post them to Mark's Home Brew.

Any clubs that have a collection of entries, please contact me by PM or email before next Thursday.

I'm sorry if that isn't good enough for all of you, but we are a small-_ish_ club made up of busy members. But we will ensure that this competition is run to the high standard expected of an AABC qualifier, and we will do our best to accommodate everyone's needs, but sometimes this just can't happen

Cheers,

Tony


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## DJR

Phew - that actually works in my favour as I thought i'd just missed the cutoff - i'll drop off an entry to Pat on Tuesday @ St Marys


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## Tim

Have the results of the comp been published yet? It's my first entry and I am keen to see how it all works.

Did many people travel up to the Hunter for it?


----------



## samhaldane

Tim said:


> Have the results of the comp been published yet? It's my first entry and I am keen to see how it all works.
> 
> Did many people travel up to the Hunter for it?



Isn't it next weekend?


----------



## Tim

Oops, looks like I am jumping the gun a bit!


----------



## schooey

Just a quick note to all kind enough to vounteer and are planning to come along and judge or steward, we will be kicking off at 10.30 am on the Friday, to allow those coming from Sydney to get here and leave at a sensible hour, and follow up on Saturday, kicking off at 9.30 am.

For those who don't know, Hunter Beer Co at Potters Brewery is on Wine Country drive, Nulkaba. Nulkaba is a couple of minutes drive North of the city of Cessnock on the Cessnock - Branxton road.

If anyone wishes to contact me for further details, please send me a PM with your number and I'll give you a call to discuss.

Cheers,

Tony


----------



## Silo Ted

Hi Schooey, I have a question - when will the placings results be published for this ? In my usual stupid manner, I drank my larder almost dry, so only have 1 extra bottle of each beer I am entering. The trouble is I want to enter them into the Castle Hill comp as well, but would kick myself forever if one of my beers placed in the state comp and I had no others to enter nationally.


----------



## schooey

I'm not sure, ST, but it won't be until _at least _Sunday arvo/mondayish, so I suggest unless you want to go dry between now and then, you go support your local micro of choice...


----------



## Silo Ted

Ah that's fine, the entry to Castle Hill doesn't close off until the following weekend. 

Cheers mate.


----------



## schooey

No worries, they will be out before entries close for the Castle Hill comp.


----------



## MHB

Well the judging starts tomorrow, I just thought I would share a picture of the BOS prize.



Thanks to Murrays for filling the bottle all 6000 mL or 36 standard drinks worth of it with Icon2 I hope whoever wins it appreciates the beer.
Thanks also to the other sponsors, Bitter and Twisted, Potters (the Hunter Brewing Company) who are providing the venue, we in the Hunter are blessed with two great micros who have been and remain great supporters of the local home brewing community.
May all the beers get the score they deserve.
MHB


----------



## vykuza

Wow! What a great prize! Good luck to those who entered!


----------



## Muggus

MHB said:


> Well the judging starts tomorrow, I just thought I would share a picture of the BOS prize.
> View attachment 47846
> 
> Thanks to Murrays for filling the bottle all 6000 mL or 36 standard drinks worth of it with Icon2 I hope whoever wins it appreciates the beer.
> Thanks also to the other sponsors, Bitter and Twisted, Potters (the Hunter Brewing Company) who are providing the venue, we in the Hunter are blessed with two great micros who have been and remain great supporters of the local home brewing community.
> May all the beers get the score they deserve.
> MHB


Looking great Mark!
BOS winner certainly won't go thirsty for a while! :chug:


----------



## waggastew

I assume B.O.S means 'Beer of Stewart'? I should be a shoe in for that one!

If its 'Beer of Show' I have very little chance with my 3 K&B entries. Oh well, I am still looking forward to the feedback.

Thanks to all organisers, stewards etc for running the comp

Stew


----------



## Silo Ted

Nick R said:


> Wow! What a great prize! Good luck to those who entered!



Good luck to those who entered two bottles per style  I still don't understand how previous comps can run a BOS flight from 1 x 750mL bottle but the 2011 state comp can't. It has been a regular topic of confusion in off-line conversations amongst entrants. I'll be very interested to see if a one-bottle entry bags it, or if a two-bottler scores the accolade, thus setting a precedent for all future comps. 

+100 for Murrays ! Shame that gargantuan bottle (known as a Methuselah if I'm not mistaken) doesn't have a perlick drilled into the side ! 

Good luck to all, and cheers to the volunteers that help make this event happen.


----------



## Silo Ted

waggastew said:


> I assume B.O.S means 'Beer of Stewart'? I should be a shoe in for that one!


Wait for the 'Wine of Wogs" competition for a same-name advantage :huh: 

Looking at that bottle label, I thought is was 'Belonging of Silo" :lol: :lol: :lol: 

While I rate Murray's as one of my top five Aussie micro's, wouldnt it have been cool if Potters filled the Methuselah BOS prize, as we could refer to it as "*Brewed on Site*"



waggastew said:


> If its 'Beer of Show' I have very little chance with my 3 K&B entries. Oh well, I am still looking forward to the feedback.


Mate it's all good - I'm sure a K & B could _possibly_ take out a ribbon, in fact I'm sure I read that it happened once. No-one's judging you on the method, only the end product. And yes, the feedback is interesting, and worth the entry fee.


----------



## petesbrew

MHB said:


> Well the judging starts tomorrow, I just thought I would share a picture of the BOS prize.
> View attachment 47846
> 
> Thanks to Murrays for filling the bottle all 6000 mL or 36 standard drinks worth of it with Icon2 I hope whoever wins it appreciates the beer.
> Thanks also to the other sponsors, Bitter and Twisted, Potters (the Hunter Brewing Company) who are providing the venue, we in the Hunter are blessed with two great micros who have been and remain great supporters of the local home brewing community.
> May all the beers get the score they deserve.
> MHB


WOW! :blink: :beer:


----------



## Weizguy

If you're heading to help with the Competition today, I will see you there.

It's going to be a great weekend for homebrew.

Not sure if this was mentioned, but the best beer/result from the Hunter United Brewers will get a special prize too, so stay tuned for that.

Les the Weizguy out


----------



## Tim

Silo Ted said:


> Mate it's all good - I'm sure a K & B could _possibly_ take out a ribbon, in fact I'm sure I read that it happened once. No-one's judging you on the method, only the end product. And yes, the feedback is interesting, and worth the entry fee.



If you look up the results from some of the past NSW comps they indicate the method of brewing. A number of places are usually taken out by kit beers, generally in the low alcohol and pale lager categories.

Try this link here.


----------



## christopher.whitten

Best of luck to all my brewing brethren, expecially the ESB fellas. Big cheer to all those gents who gave up their time to drink the best beer in NSW. 

Wit


----------



## Barry

Any word about the 2012 NSW Amateur Brewing Competition?


----------



## Muggus

We're (HUB) happy to put our hands up to host again.
Not sure if anyone else has put their hand up, but it's been discussed and we'd probably do something similiar to last years comp - at Potters Friday/Saturday etc.


----------



## Stuster

Also happy to have it along with the Castle Hill Show again this year.

(Can't believe I just said that. Doh) :huh:


----------



## Barry

Well count me in regardless where it is. Will help in anyway possible.


----------



## mikk

The HUB guys seemed to do a great job last time. 

Either way, it would be nice to sort out some dates to help plan brews. I'm sure there's people unaffiliated with either club that would be happy to help out (like me) if there was enough notice to arrange the weekend off work.

Also, if the comp is held at the Castle Hill show, would the categories/styles be as per the AABC, or condensed into a smaller number of categories like last years Castle Hill Show? I assume it would have to be run as per the AABC to allow for the proper qualifying procedure for Octobers AABC, but just wanted to be sure.

The timing of last years HUB-run comp was great, in my opinion. From memory, i think there was 6 weeks between that comp & the AABC, giving (just) adequate time to re-brew any (smaller!) beers that qualified. Some other states didn't have this, i think, so might be nice to keep in mind to give NSW brewers the best chance of doing well at the nationals.

Mikk


----------



## Barry

I am concerned that time is running out and a decision re time and place neeeds to be made very soon. Even organising the relatively small ESB comp takes significant lead time. :icon_cheers:


----------



## barls

I think we should bring it back to Sydney. Stu runs a good comp with very few complaints about it. 
Yes the hub boys did better than the previous attempt but I believe there are still prize winners waiting to receive their prize. Also Friday/Saturday doesn't work for those that have jobs. It means you have to take a day off the there is an early start to get up there from Sydney. 
Ether way lets get this sorted soon so we can all start brewing.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

barls said:


> I think we should bring it back to Sydney. Stu runs a good comp with very few complaints about it.
> Yes the hub boys did better than the previous attempt but I believe there are still prize winners waiting to receive their prize. Also Friday/Saturday doesn't work for those that have jobs. It means you have to take a day off the there is an early start to get up there from Sydney.
> Ether way lets get this sorted soon so we can all start brewing.



For Stu's sake, let's hold it in Newcastle again!  Sometimes holding an event second time around is easier as you've worked out the teething problems from the first time!

Either way, yes, whoever decides, please do so soon! Either way, it will be a well run event. If available, I'll be there (be afraid, be very afraid)


----------



## Barry

Bump


----------



## Muggus

We've got our Annual General Meeting for HUB next Friday.
It will be discussed and i'll personally make sure everyone is kept up to date with the details. 
Certainly planning a date is the most important thing at this point in time. Once we've got that, everything else should easily fall into place.


----------



## Brewman_

I thought last years comp was fantastic. 

I am happy to help wherever it goes.

Fear


----------



## MattC

Last year HUB ran a well organised comp, the feedback from the judges was excellent and the posting of results by Schooey was incredibly quick, which is fantastic. I was one of the first people to extend my sincere gratitude to Schooey and the other organisers of the comp on the NSW comp results thread. The glasses that I received for first place were excellent and take a proud place in the brewery. 

Only first place received a prize and 2nd and 3rd certificates. That in itself is not an issue but what concerns me is that I was told by Schooey on this forum that those who placed first in each cat would be receiving vouchers to the tune of about $50 a win. So far there has not been any sign of these vouchers. When I made enquiries about the progress of receiving them, I hit a bit of a wall. I havent seen Schooey on this forum since September and the president of HUB did tell me he would look into it but I havent heard anything back since Feb. I know he hasnt been well lately and in all fairness perhaps someone else from HUB could have chased it up? 

Its not the fact that the vouchers never came that is the problem, its that there was never any communication as to why. If there was perhaps an issue with sponsorship and prizes could not be finalised, then share this info. Some of you may see this as a whinge and thats your opinion, however when you shell out $130+ in entry and courier fees and someone tells you that you will be receiving $100 in vouchers, then its a very welcome bonus. Perhaps those from HUB could discuss this at their AGM next Friday and provide an answer?



barls said:


> Yes the hub boys did better than the previous attempt but I believe there are still prize winners waiting to receive their prize.


----------



## Jay Cee

I suppose a good thing about HUB hosting the event again is that we get two comps instead of one, being that the Castle Hill homebrew comp will run regardless of whether it's the nationals qualifier or not. :beer:


----------



## Muggus

MattC said:


> Last year HUB ran a well organised comp, the feedback from the judges was excellent and the posting of results by Schooey was incredibly quick, which is fantastic. I was one of the first people to extend my sincere gratitude to Schooey and the other organisers of the comp on the NSW comp results thread. The glasses that I received for first place were excellent and take a proud place in the brewery.
> 
> Only first place received a prize and 2nd and 3rd certificates. That in itself is not an issue but what concerns me is that I was told by Schooey on this forum that those who placed first in each cat would be receiving vouchers to the tune of about $50 a win. So far there has not been any sign of these vouchers. When I made enquiries about the progress of receiving them, I hit a bit of a wall. I havent seen Schooey on this forum since September and the president of HUB did tell me he would look into it but I havent heard anything back since Feb. I know he hasnt been well lately and in all fairness perhaps someone else from HUB could have chased it up?
> 
> Its not the fact that the vouchers never came that is the problem, its that there was never any communication as to why. If there was perhaps an issue with sponsorship and prizes could not be finalised, then share this info. Some of you may see this as a whinge and thats your opinion, however when you shell out $130+ in entry and courier fees and someone tells you that you will be receiving $100 in vouchers, then its a very welcome bonus. Perhaps those from HUB could discuss this at their AGM next Friday and provide an answer?


Thanks for the feedback Matt
It certainly will be discussed at the meeting. 
The absence of Schooey for several months from all HUB activities due to work commitments did make a few of things difficult, which is something we will address.
Needless to say, an informed decision will be reached in the meeting.


----------



## mikk

bump. Sorry to be naggy, but just wondering if a plan has been formulated yet?!


----------



## Weizguy

mikk said:


> bump. Sorry to be naggy, but just wondering if a plan has been formulated yet?!


The HUB meeting was held and I don't think I'm out of place to state that we plan to run the NSW State comp.

As for the outstanding prizes, I will bring it up again.

Les (one of your NSW State AABA reps, and proud HUB member)


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Les the Weizguy said:


> The HUB meeting was held and I don't think I'm out of place to state that we plan to run the NSW State comp.
> 
> As for the outstanding prizes, I will bring it up again.
> 
> Les (one of your NSW State AABA reps, and proud HUB member)




Good stuff comrade!


----------



## bigfridge

Fatgodzilla said:


> Good stuff comrade!



Indeed .....

At the HUB meeting last Friday night the commitment and availability of the people needed to run the comp was confirmed. 

The next task was to confirm the venue availability etc before any 'official' announcement could be made.

Thanks
David


----------



## Muggus

bigfridge said:


> Indeed .....
> 
> At the HUB meeting last Friday night the commitment and availability of the people needed to run the comp was confirmed.
> 
> The next task was to confirm the venue availability etc before any 'official' announcement could be made.
> 
> Thanks
> David


I've contact Keith a Potters Brewery in regards to hosting something similar to last years comp at the Brewery up there in the Hunter Valley.
The tentative dates we've set are the *17th, 18th & 19th of August*, which is a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday...like last year.
Any earlier will be pushing it, as will any later, particularly with other beer festivals(?) and Fathers days residing on weekends after.
Waiting to hear back from Keith with regards to availability of Function Room, and cut price accommodation for out-of-town judges.

If Potters is not available, our other option is Hamilton North Bowls club, where we host our Monthly Meetings.
Whilst not being as glamorous a location at Potters and the Valley, and lacking accommodation, we're guarenteed to be looked after there, and they're happy to cater for lunch and whatnot...the food is good there too!

As far as outstanding prizes go, as far as I know that was dealt with...? 
Schooey did have a fair bit to do with that part (and the rest) of the comp last year, and unfortunately has been very busy with work and family commitments pretty much since the finish of the State Comp last year, and has been difficult to make contact with. 
Not 100%, but Geoff would be the one to talk to about that...he'd know more than me.


Either way, i'm very tempted to put my foot down for that date...regardless if Potters is available. I'll keep plugging away at it, and make a definitive decision by tommorrow afternoon.
If anyone has any reason to pick another date, please chime in ASAP....

Cheers
Michael
HUB Committee


----------



## Muggus

Just to update....

Potters is available on those dates. So the wheels are now officially in motion for the running of the State Comp.
I'll update details as I get them, but this is a confirmation.

Cheers
Michael


----------



## Hoppy Mad

Muggus said:


> The tentative dates we've set are the *17th, 18th & 19th of August*, which is a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday...like last year.



Thanks for picking up the ball and running with this guys. 
FYI this is the same weekend as Beervana in NZ so I wont be able to steward. I was hoping to come along and assist.

Maybe next year.

Cheers,

Brendan


----------



## Barry

Great news.
Now we can all get some sleep.
(a Clayton's joke. )


----------



## Muggus

Hoppy Mad said:


> Thanks for picking up the ball and running with this guys.
> FYI this is the same weekend as Beervana in NZ so I wont be able to steward. I was hoping to come along and assist.
> 
> Maybe next year.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Brendan


Sorry to hear about that Brendan. Certainly the more the merrier when it comes to stewards and judges is appreciated.
Hopefully not too many people will be heading over for that....ps have fun!


----------



## yum beer

Barry said:


> Great news.
> Now we can all get some sleep.
> (a Clayton's joke.  )




Good one, Jack


----------



## mikk

Muggus said:


> Just to update....
> 
> Potters is available on those dates. So the wheels are now officially in motion for the running of the State Comp.
> I'll update details as I get them, but this is a confirmation.
> 
> Cheers
> Michael



Nice work. Good to have a date to plan for!


----------



## Muggus

mikk said:


> Nice work. Good to have a date to plan for!


It would have been ideal to provided a firm date earlier, but conflicting schedules around people with work and other commitments.

Needless to say, apologies to anyone wanting to brew a proper Lager for the comp at this point in time.... h34r:


----------



## mikk

No drama, I imagine most people would have been anticipating the comp to be around august, and would have planned ahead accordingly anyway? That said, i just started my lager 2 days ago so will be interested to see how it goes!


----------



## Muggus

mikk said:


> No drama, I imagine most people would have been anticipating the comp to be around august, and would have planned ahead accordingly anyway? That said, i just started my lager 2 days ago so will be interested to see how it goes!


Yeah, that's true. 
Realistically anyone whose serious about brewing for the state comp, and possibly nationals, has probably got their act together already.


----------



## Muggus

Hey folks,





Apologies for delays in getting this out. It's been a couple of hectic weeks personally, which never helps.

The entry form for the State Comp is below. You'll need to print out a form for each entry, and attach a Label to each bottle you enter.
It is recommended you send 2 bottles for each entry - if you make it to the Championship Best Of Show round, you don't want the judges to taste a bottle that's already been opened!

Any dramas send me an email at [email protected] No doubt i've probably overlooked something in my hectic rush, and i'm happy to clarify details where I can.

Cheers, and thanks for your patience

Michael Morgan
HUB Committee

View attachment State_Comp.pdf




ps...oh and here's the AABC Style guidelines you'll be judged against.... http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2012StyleG...agePerStyle.pdf


----------



## Korev

Please clarify is cost $7 or $10 there are two figures in the doc

Cheers
Peter


----------



## tiprya

Also, the 10th of August is a Friday, not a Wednesday.

What sort of feedback will entries get?


----------



## sama

tiprya said:


> What sort of feedback will entries get?



you get a score sheet returned to you,with marks and helpful comments.


----------



## Jay Cee

Shame its so early, I was expecting late September. Never mind, I have a couple of sub-par offerings that I would love feedback on anyway. 

Just a question on this rule: 

_This competition is open to all brewers whatsoever, without restriction. Entries must not have
been fermented on licensed premises and must be entered under the name of the brewer or
brewers. This includes all beers not made as commercial beer regardless of where the wort
was made i.e. at home, in a brew shop, at Brew on Premises locations or obtained from a
commercial brewery as a Beer Kit or Fresh Wort Pack._

If someone enters a pre-made wort kit, then the 'brewer' would be the the manufacturer, right? If this was an amateur fermenters competition, then the entry name would be that of the individual.


----------



## Muggus

Korev said:


> Please clarify is cost $7 or $10 there are two figures in the doc
> 
> Cheers
> Peter


My bad...had the entry fee down as $10 instead of $7 for Entry.

Here's the amended PDF

Apologies
Michael

View attachment State_Comp.pdf


----------



## Muggus

Jay Cee said:


> Shame its so early, I was expecting late September. Never mind, I have a couple of sub-par offerings that I would love feedback on anyway.
> 
> Just a question on this rule:
> 
> _This competition is open to all brewers whatsoever, without restriction. Entries must not have
> been fermented on licensed premises and must be entered under the name of the brewer or
> brewers. This includes all beers not made as commercial beer regardless of where the wort
> was made i.e. at home, in a brew shop, at Brew on Premises locations or obtained from a
> commercial brewery as a Beer Kit or Fresh Wort Pack._
> 
> If someone enters a pre-made wort kit, then the 'brewer' would be the the manufacturer, right? If this was an amateur fermenters competition, then the entry name would be that of the individual.


Yeah, unfortunately we had to bite the bullet and put it on that weekend because of additional events on weekends after.
Would have loved to get this all ready earlier but unfortunately many of the organisers from last year have been wrapped up with work commitments. We shall persevere anyway.


Good point. The wording is a bit funny - not my own, took it from last years entry form - but I think it's basically saying that you cannot enter a commercially "manufactured" beer, ie the whole process, brewed/fermented/conditioned/packaged, has been conducted in a commercial brewery.

Nothing wrong with entering a Fresh Wort kit, because, lets face it, you can easily stuff one up by not paying attention to your hygiene when fermenting and bottling, and maintaining an ideal temperature and yeast health during fermentation.
At the end of the day, most of the flaws in homebrewed beers are because of these factors...rarely to do with Wort.

So yeah, I see nothing wrong with entering a Fresh Wort Kit, so long as it's fermented and bottled in your home. If it does well, then obviously you've done a good job at fermenting it. 
Realistically, I think those who do it themselves, from scratch, have a better chance, and will get better satisfaction out of their results.

Sorry, that was a bit long winded...it's a controversial topic...


----------



## mje1980

Dumb question, if i have 2 bottles of mild for one entry is that $7 ?, or is each bottle an entry, therefore $14??.


----------



## yum beer

mje1980 said:


> Dumb question, if i have 2 bottles of mild for one entry is that $7 ?, or is each bottle an entry, therefore $14??.




$7 - 2 bottles constitute '1' entry.


----------



## mje1980

Ok cool, thought so, just wanted to make sure. Thanks mate


----------



## Weizguy

mje1980 said:


> Dumb question, if i have 2 bottles of mild for one entry is that $7 ?, or is each bottle an entry, therefore $14??.





yum beer said:


> $7 - 2 bottles constitute '1' entry.


...unless it's two different Milds, then it's two entries, if you want each beer judged separately.
2 of the same beer, hoping for a chance at the BOS round, attracts the base rate of $7 for the single entry.

Clear as mud?


----------



## Rob S

Hi, stupid question time....

On the entry form you have the following information to fill in....

Cat. Category. Style #. Style. Notes for information requiring addition info e.g. 16.1, 16.2 etc. Bottle Cap ID.

Say I want to enter something in the category of 8.3 ESB what do I put in all these fields???

I assume it would be.

Cat - 8. Category - 3. Style number - 8.3. Style - ESB. Notes - 8.3. Bottle cap ID - No idea?

Have I got this right for the categories? What do I put on the bottle cap? The same thing?

Then there's the print out you cut out and put on the bottle. Class. Class Description and Style.

Is that ESB, ESB and 8.3???

Sorry but as Homer Simpson said......It's my first time.

Cheers,
Rob


----------



## DJR

Hey, apologies if this is covered in the flyers but what are the prizes? I can't work out what they are. Fair enough that there are the awards but just wondering what prizes are up for offer as well.

Also I'm assuming that this comp is the qualifier for the national homebrew competition? I can see it sponsors for the US NHC but again not clear on the wording that it is the qualifier for the nationals?


----------



## bigfridge

Rob S said:


> What do I put on the bottle cap?



Hi Rob,

The bottle cap/ID is for your use if you enter two of the same style ie you enter 2 different batches of Mild - by allowing you to call one entry 'A' and the other 'B' you can match up the score sheets/feedback with each batch.

HTH,
Dave


----------



## bigfridge

DJR said:


> Hey, apologies if this is covered in the flyers but what are the prizes? I can't work out what they are. Fair enough that there are the awards but just wondering what prizes are up for offer as well.
> 
> Also I'm assuming that this comp is the qualifier for the national homebrew competition? I can see it sponsors for the US NHC but again not clear on the wording that it is the qualifier for the nationals?



At this stage there are no prizes to announce - the committee is seeking the support of sponsors but nothing has been finalised.

Until there is some firm offers of support you will just have to compete for the honour  

And yes, it is the qualifier for the AABC.


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> Just a question on this rule:
> 
> _This competition is open to all brewers whatsoever, without restriction. Entries must not have
> been fermented on licensed premises and must be entered under the name of the brewer or
> brewers. This includes all beers not made as commercial beer regardless of where the wort
> was made i.e. at home, in a brew shop, at Brew on Premises locations or obtained from a
> commercial brewery as a Beer Kit or Fresh Wort Pack._
> 
> If someone enters a pre-made wort kit, then the 'brewer' would be the the manufacturer, right? If this was an amateur fermenters competition, then the entry name would be that of the individual.



Perhaps I can add to Muggus's excellent reply - as I was the one who wrote that parragraph.

Brewing is the process of producing beer - beer is a fermented beverage hence it is the fermentation that defines the transformation of wort into beer. Fermentation is also the point recognised by the law as where beer is produced.

Hence the wort can come from any source whatsoever - but can only be entered by the person that performs the fermentation.

The only restriction is the beer can't have been made as a commercial beer.

HTH,

Dave


----------



## MHB

I promised to supply the BOS prize again this year; I think last years prize was well received.
Havent had time to chance up quite such a unique prize this year so I thought the brewer of the best beer in NSW for 2012 might like some of my favourite brewing books so the BOS prize will be: -
A copy of Kunze - Technology Brewing and Malting
A copy of The ULTIMATE ALMANAC of WORLD BEER RECIPES
And a personal favourite A Handbook of Basic Brewing Calculations
All in its over $400 worth of some of the best brewing publications on the planet and a definite head start for someone wanting to win next years BOS.
Unless of course the committee think otherwise
Mark


----------



## Muggus

MHB said:


> I promised to supply the BOS prize again this year; I think last years prize was well received.
> Havent had time to chance up quite such a unique prize this year so I thought the brewer of the best beer in NSW for 2012 might like some of my favourite brewing books so the BOS prize will be: -
> A copy of Kunze - Technology Brewing and Malting
> A copy of The ULTIMATE ALMANAC of WORLD BEER RECIPES
> And a personal favourite A Handbook of Basic Brewing Calculations
> All in its over $400 worth of some of the best brewing publications on the planet and a definite head start for someone wanting to win next years BOS.
> Unless of course the committee think otherwise
> Mark


Woah! That's a bloody impressive prize Mark! 
Many thanks for offering it. Definitely must have literature for any serious brewer...homebrew or large scale.


----------



## schooey

MattC said:


> Last year HUB ran a well organised comp, the feedback from the judges was excellent and the posting of results by Schooey was incredibly quick, which is fantastic. I was one of the first people to extend my sincere gratitude to Schooey and the other organisers of the comp on the NSW comp results thread. The glasses that I received for first place were excellent and take a proud place in the brewery.
> 
> Only first place received a prize and 2nd and 3rd certificates. That in itself is not an issue but what concerns me is that I was told by Schooey on this forum that those who placed first in each cat would be receiving vouchers to the tune of about $50 a win. So far there has not been any sign of these vouchers. When I made enquiries about the progress of receiving them, I hit a bit of a wall. I havent seen Schooey on this forum since September and the president of HUB did tell me he would look into it but I havent heard anything back since Feb. I know he hasnt been well lately and in all fairness perhaps someone else from HUB could have chased it up?
> 
> Its not the fact that the vouchers never came that is the problem, its that there was never any communication as to why. If there was perhaps an issue with sponsorship and prizes could not be finalised, then share this info. Some of you may see this as a whinge and thats your opinion, however when you shell out $130+ in entry and courier fees and someone tells you that you will be receiving $100 in vouchers, then its a very welcome bonus. Perhaps those from HUB could discuss this at their AGM next Friday and provide an answer?




Hi Matt,

Apologies that this response is indeed a little late. It is also somewhat unsolicited from the club in general, as frankly, I haven't been much assistance to them for the past 12 months. Hopefully this will explain somewhat to you what has happened and how we can resolve your gripe.

At the time of last years comp, we had limited resources available to the club (time. people available, funds etc) but nobody else really wanted to pick the ball up and run with it, so we jumped in. All was on track for a really great comp (and I still personally believe it was), up until the a week or so after the comp had finished. At the time, my employment changed, along with my wife's employment, some family circumstances on top of that as well as some other financial stresses and curveballs thrown in. I don't wish to make excuses or bore you with the details, but as you can imagine, when you have been away from home for 46 of the past 58 weeks, you're concentrating on keeping your marriage, your family and your house, your priorities shift a little...

Now, onto the prizes... As a club, we didn't officially plan any, apart from the BOS prize that Mark from MHB kindly took upon himself to arrange, and donate. As an aside, when I collected the entries from the pick up spots, I asked them verbally if they were willing to donate some vouchers to the tune of $50 for category prizes. All of the pick up locations pledged their support, some with 2 pledges, as well as a couple of local businesses here, Craftbrewer, and a few other odds and sods. Due to the timing, I was fortunate enough to get the trophies out (with some small delays), the rsults posted and our BJCP obligations filled. However, the pledges for the vouchers were never collected upon, nor have they ever been cashed in. Hopefully that will dispel some of the things I've seen flying around about corruption from the HUB club, or it's members.

Now, you might say that I could have passed on this duty to somebody else to fulfill, but at the time, I had made the promise, and I wanted to get it done. To my poorer udgement though, I didn't get this done, and I am happy to accept full credit for it. This should no way be reflected on the HUB club, or it's current members.

So, going forward, I don't think I could reasonably expect the guys that made pledges for 12 months ago to simply cough up, so I guess if you want the three vouchers or whatever it was you won, you'll have to PM me your bank account details, and I'll sort it out with you personally. I am happy to accept the blame.

As for this years NSWABC comp, I fully believe that the HUB guys will run an awesome competition in the same light as last year. I would love nothing more than to be able to assist, but I simply won't be around, and after this whole thing, I don't ever want to put my name against any promises until I'm either unemployed or retired. I hope anybody that is/was considering entering this year has not been put off by some of negatives in this thread; I can assure you there are some of the countries most knowledgeable beer community involved again in this years comp and that your entry fees will be well worth it.

I hope this allays the concerns thus far.

Cheers,

Tony


----------



## yum beer

Well worth the entry fee just for the quality feedback of your beers.
not gonna win a prize and dont care, but a review from those who know their shit is invaluable.

I certainly hope the next year is better for ya' schooey


----------



## vykuza

MHB said:


> I promised to supply the BOS prize again this year; I think last years prize was well received.
> Havent had time to chance up quite such a unique prize this year so I thought the brewer of the best beer in NSW for 2012 might like some of my favourite brewing books so the BOS prize will be: -
> A copy of Kunze - Technology Brewing and Malting
> A copy of The ULTIMATE ALMANAC of WORLD BEER RECIPES
> And a personal favourite A Handbook of Basic Brewing Calculations
> All in its over $400 worth of some of the best brewing publications on the planet and a definite head start for someone wanting to win next years BOS.
> Unless of course the committee think otherwise
> Mark




Good on you Mark, a great prize! Teach a man to fish...

I will be entering this year - so I'll PM you my address to get the grand prize all labelled and ready to go for when I win


----------



## MattC

schooey said:


> Hi Matt,
> 
> Apologies that this response is indeed a little late. It is also somewhat unsolicited from the club in general, as frankly, I haven't been much assistance to them for the past 12 months. Hopefully this will explain somewhat to you what has happened and how we can resolve your gripe.
> 
> At the time of last years comp, we had limited resources available to the club (time. people available, funds etc) but nobody else really wanted to pick the ball up and run with it, so we jumped in. All was on track for a really great comp (and I still personally believe it was), up until the a week or so after the comp had finished. At the time, my employment changed, along with my wife's employment, some family circumstances on top of that as well as some other financial stresses and curveballs thrown in. I don't wish to make excuses or bore you with the details, but as you can imagine, when you have been away from home for 46 of the past 58 weeks, you're concentrating on keeping your marriage, your family and your house, your priorities shift a little...
> 
> Now, onto the prizes... As a club, we didn't officially plan any, apart from the BOS prize that Mark from MHB kindly took upon himself to arrange, and donate. As an aside, when I collected the entries from the pick up spots, I asked them verbally if they were willing to donate some vouchers to the tune of $50 for category prizes. All of the pick up locations pledged their support, some with 2 pledges, as well as a couple of local businesses here, Craftbrewer, and a few other odds and sods. Due to the timing, I was fortunate enough to get the trophies out (with some small delays), the rsults posted and our BJCP obligations filled. However, the pledges for the vouchers were never collected upon, nor have they ever been cashed in. Hopefully that will dispel some of the things I've seen flying around about corruption from the HUB club, or it's members.
> 
> Now, you might say that I could have passed on this duty to somebody else to fulfill, but at the time, I had made the promise, and I wanted to get it done. To my poorer udgement though, I didn't get this done, and I am happy to accept full credit for it. This should no way be reflected on the HUB club, or it's current members.
> 
> So, going forward, I don't think I could reasonably expect the guys that made pledges for 12 months ago to simply cough up, so I guess if you want the three vouchers or whatever it was you won, you'll have to PM me your bank account details, and I'll sort it out with you personally. I am happy to accept the blame.
> 
> As for this years NSWABC comp, I fully believe that the HUB guys will run an awesome competition in the same light as last year. I would love nothing more than to be able to assist, but I simply won't be around, and after this whole thing, I don't ever want to put my name against any promises until I'm either unemployed or retired. I hope anybody that is/was considering entering this year has not been put off by some of negatives in this thread; I can assure you there are some of the countries most knowledgeable beer community involved again in this years comp and that your entry fees will be well worth it.
> 
> I hope this allays the concerns thus far.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tony




Welcome back Tony. Firstly thanks for your reply and explanation about the outstanding prizes from the 2011 NSW Brewing comp.
There are a few things that I would like to raise in reply to your comments above.

Firstly, I was always in praise of the running of the 2011 NSW brewing comp. The speed and quality of the feedback from the judges and posting of results (by you) was appreciated as were the two fantastic glasses I received and I posted such comments on the NSW comp results thread.

You refer to my enquiries about the outstanding prizes as a gripe. Interesting word choice to describe what I would simply call unanswered questions. But thats your opinion and as the organiser of last years comp, youre entitled to it.

The comments I made in the NSW results thread which were...


MattC said:


> ...Due to the lack of communication it really leaves one to assume that something untoward has occurred...


are the comments Im guessing you are referring to when you say ...the things I've seen flying around about corruption ....
As you can see my post was made on Feb 3 of this year, which was 4+ months since the completion of the comp. My previous and numerous posts enquiring about the prizes had not received a single reply and that post was made perhaps out of frustration about the lack of communication more than anything. In addition, it was the day after that post that I was contacted by the HUB president who first told me that you had changed jobs and were hard to track down. Prior to that the last contact/ reply about the comp prizes was from you on Sept 21. In addition there was no information about how to enter into the Bitter and Twisted Festival as well.

I can understand your willingness to fulfil the obligations you made to your fellow club members about the chasing up and organising of prizes etc but in hindsight (and as you have accepted responsibility) perhaps it should have been passed onto to another club member.

As for your offer to personally deposit funds into my account, well nice try. Its not about that and you know it as much as I do. It was and always has been about the lack of communication between the competition organiser and the category winners. As far as chasing up the pledges made for the 2011 comp prizes, if you feel that 12 months is too long to chase them up, then that is your decision as the organiser. 

As far as tainting the image of the HUB club, as far as Im concerned I dont think HUB has anything they need to explain. I think it is pretty admirable for you to return to this forum and accept the blame as you have done and I respect you for doing so Tony. I would like to extend my gratitude to the HUB for running the comp again this year and I wish the entrants and organisers good luck in their endeavours.

I consider this issue to be finalised Tony and I accept your ownership of responsibility for last years comp. I would also like to wish you well in your personal situation as well.

Regards
MattC


----------



## Brewman_

Hi Matt,
2012 is a new year.
Would you like to be involved in the competition? I assume you live in Ballina, (My favourite country in the whole world). Come to the Hunter Valley and get involved if you like? Seems you can make a decent beer? I have a cold one waiting..


Fear.


----------



## MattC

fear_n_loath said:


> Hi Matt,
> 2012 is a new year.
> Would you like to be involved in the competition? I assume you live in Ballina, (My favourite country in the whole world). Come to the Hunter Valley and get involved if you like? Seems you can make a decent beer? I have a cold one waiting..
> 
> 
> Fear.



Fear, thanks very much for the kind invite. Being involved in these comps is something that I would definitely like to do at some stage. At present it is not possible for me to make the trip to the Hunter or Sydney to take part in these comps as I have a young family and the wife works on weekends. I am aware of the level of organisation that is required for the running of a NSW comp and I am appreciative of the efforts of clubs such as HUB in running these comps. The feedback from the judges is always excellent and it is from this feedback that I have been able to massively improve my beers over the last 3 years.

Yours in appreciation

MattC


----------



## a_quintal

Just a question regarding the bottle labels for the Class, Class description and Style.

I'm entering a Hefeweizen so i've guessed it should be as follows:

Class: 16
Class Description: Wheat & Rye Beer
Style: 16.2 Weizen/Weissbier

Would that be correct?


----------



## bigfridge

a_quintal said:


> Just a question regarding the bottle labels for the Class, Class description and Style.
> 
> I'm entering a Hefeweizen so i've guessed it should be as follows:
> 
> Class: 16
> Class Description: Wheat & Rye Beer
> Style: 16.2 Weizen/Weissbier
> 
> Would that be correct?



Yes, that looks fine.

It may seem like duplication that the Class 16 is also included in the style description but it does help resolve and errors or difficult to read entries.

Obviously the Style is the most important as this is the description that the beer will be judged against.

HTH,
Dave


----------



## a_quintal

Thanks Dave. Yeah it makes sense. This is my first comp entry so i was second guessing myself a bit.


----------



## Muggus

Just a quick heads up to everyone that the Drop Off date for Entries is this Friday at your nearest drop off point.
Any issues getting them there, send me a PM or email [email protected]

Also for anyone wanting to put their hand up for judging or steward, we're making the cut off date this Friday.

Cheers
Mike


----------



## Weizguy

Just in case you missed it elsewhere, my hand is up to judge from the 17th through to the end. Will steward if you have too many judges.

Beerz
Les

*edited for paw spelling :lol:


----------



## a_quintal

Just dropped it off. Looking forward to an unbiased palate tearing it to shreds.


----------



## brewn00b

Noooooo! Missed the cut off Any chance of late entries? I'd drive it out to potters even.


----------



## brewn00b

brewn00b said:


> Noooooo! Missed the cut off Any chance of late entries? I'd drive it out to potters even.



"Entries received after this date will be
discarded and the entry fee returned no late entries can be accepted."

Fair nuff...
Next year


----------



## Jay Cee

Enter your beers into the Castle Hill comp instead ! Plenty of qualified judges to give you feedback, a well-run annual event with hundreds of entrants. You would have to get your beers down to Sydney drop point fairly soon though. Theres a thread in this section somewhere.


----------



## sama

any scores/results?


----------



## Stuster

Jay Cee said:


> Enter your beers into the Castle Hill comp instead ! Plenty of qualified judges to give you feedback, a well-run annual event with hundreds of entrants. You would have to get your beers down to Sydney drop point fairly soon though. Theres a thread in this section somewhere.



Yep, still time to get your beers into the Castle Hill show. Entries in by next weekend (Friday really) by post or directly to the showground next Saturday or to the retailers.

How did the state comp go for those who were there?


----------



## Jay Cee

shit, Friday is the deadline? I was going to drop mine off on Saturday to Absolute


----------



## Stuster

Jay Cee said:


> shit, Friday is the deadline? I was going to drop mine off on Saturday to Absolute



No, that's fine for Saturday at the brewshops. I was unclearly just noting that the deadline for post is down as next Saturday but there is of course no post on Saturday.


----------



## petesbrew

Any news, guys?


----------



## bigfridge

petesbrew said:


> Any news, guys?



Sorry not yet - it will be another week before the judging is complete.

Due to large number of entries and the minimal support from outside the Hunter region we will have to conviene the 4th day of judging next weekend.

Our thanks go out to all the Hunter Brewers and Kelly, Graham, Barry, Mort and Dave who travelled to make this weekend possible.


----------



## barls

sorry to hear that you couldnt get the number of judges you needed, wanted to go but went to beervana instead.


----------



## petesbrew

okey dokey. cheers guys.


----------



## Muggus

As of Wednesday last week it looked we were staring down the barrel of around 320 entries. 
Damn good effort by the judges and stewards over the weekend! Probably cursing my name by the end of it....


----------



## Weizguy

Muggus said:


> As of Wednesday last week it looked we were staring down the barrel of around 320 entries.
> Damn good effort by the judges and stewards over the weekend! Probably cursing my name by the end of it....


Some of us turned up for all 3 days, and my palate is FATIGUED. We missed you, Mike.

I'm sure that some of those RIS entries were loaded with table salt to enhance character (maybe it only had to be one).
Sorry if I provided feedback as astringent character, as they were sweet but had the driest finish ever. Later my tongue was shriveled and I could taste salt. Was OK before the RIS flight. Tongue has still not recovered.

Les


----------



## Jay Cee

I'll apologise now for the infected IPA I entered :lol:


----------



## Stuster

Good effort to all the judges who made it there. Three or four days of judging is pretty intense. It can be a tough job at times. :beer:


----------



## Mikedub

Les the Weizguy said:


> I'm sure that some of those RIS entries were loaded with table salt to enhance character (maybe it only had to be one).
> Sorry if I provided feedback as astringent character, as they were sweet but had the driest finish ever. Later my tongue was shriveled and I could taste salt. Was OK before the RIS flight. Tongue has still not recovered.
> 
> Les



then I'm hoping my RIS was one of the earlier ones you judged Les, before your tounge got a-salted, 
mine was the black one


----------



## BOG

Was the judging completed today?

BOG


----------



## mikk

I really hope so! I've never checked AHB for thread updates this often before. I'm really hoping to end my 'disappointing results in a beer comp' streak....


----------



## waggastew

mikk said:


> I really hope so! I've never checked AHB for thread updates this often before. I'm really hoping to end my 'disappointing results in a beer comp' streak....



I have been checking too but plan to continue my 'How many faults can you have in one beer?' streak in the vain hope of gradually eliminating them from my brewing!


----------



## a_quintal

This is my first comp so really interested in the experience of getting some feedback


----------



## caddy

Muggus said:


> As of Wednesday last week it looked we were staring down the barrel of around 320 entries.
> Damn good effort by the judges and stewards over the weekend! Probably cursing my name by the end of it....




How many entries did you expect??


----------



## Muggus

wobleyboot said:


> How many entries did you expect??


Far less than last year!
I think it was around 360ish last year; more notice, more people involved, more interest on the forum here...I put a rough estimate on 200 early on - totally blitzed that!
All for the greater good though. Glad to see great commitment to serious homebrewing across the state!


----------



## Jay Cee

Tick tock. The results _will_ be out this week, right? 

I have a question for the organisers - what was the correct entry fee ? I seem to think I paid $10 per entry, but was advised of an amended form that required only $7 per entry.


----------



## christopher.whitten

Les the Weizguy said:


> Some of us turned up for all 3 days, and my palate is FATIGUED. We missed you, Mike.
> 
> I'm sure that some of those RIS entries were loaded with table salt to enhance character (maybe it only had to be one).
> Sorry if I provided feedback as astringent character, as they were sweet but had the driest finish ever. Later my tongue was shriveled and I could taste salt. Was OK before the RIS flight. Tongue has still not recovered.
> 
> Les



And I thought the Robust Porter flight in the ESB comp was tough. Well done to all who passed judgement!!


----------



## mikk

Ah man, every time someones posts something new on this thread it makes me think the results are in...

Good work HUB for putting your hand up for the comp, but getting swamped with entries. Hope it wasn't too arduous for you guys.

So, PLEASE can we have the expected time-of-release of the results? I'm starting to lose sleep here, & want to know how poorly i've done!


----------



## sama

results are not in yet


----------



## a_quintal

sama said:


> results are not in yet


  Damn you


----------



## Paul H

If I remember correctly a couple of years ago they took about a month to be released..  

Cheers

Paul


----------



## Jay Cee

A big hello to everyone who subscribed to this thread.


----------



## samhaldane

Paul H said:


> If I remember correctly a couple of years ago they took about a month to be released..
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul



Not true.


----------



## bigfridge

Paul H said:


> If I remember correctly a couple of years ago they took about a month to be released..




Phew, that's a relief - here I was rushing to get them out this week !  

Take a look here tomorrow morning and you will see the results - just some final checking to do.


----------



## Weizguy

Good onya, Dave.

BOS, too?


----------



## Burghbrewer

Well done and thanks for all involved's efforts, a huge job I'm sure.
No need to check again till the morning, thank god!


----------



## bigfridge

Les the Weizguy said:


> Good onya, Dave.
> 
> BOS, too?



yup - the BOS was completed last Thursday night but I have been at work since then so haven't been able to finalise everything.

Dave


----------



## Weizguy

Hey, if you have work to delegate, I'm up for it. That's why we're part of a club.


----------



## barls

haldini said:


> Not true.


different comp with different organisers.
try looking further back in this thread.


----------



## samhaldane

barls said:


> different comp with different organisers.
> try looking further back in this thread.



I must be missing something, this thread was started for last year's comp. I thought he might be referring to the joke Stuster posted in 2010.

All good :beer:


----------



## barls

yeah paul h is talking about the 2010 bitter and twisted comp, that took forever to get results and score sheets.
last year was alright with results, there was just a problem with prizes that year. hopefully this year is all sorted.


----------



## sama

sama said:


> results are not in yet




bump


----------



## bigfridge

bigfridge said:


> Take a look here tomorrow morning and you will see the results - just some final checking to do.



Final checking found some clerical errors - which have been resolved but not fully tripple checked.

So thanks to all the folks that were posting here about the progress of the results - it really does help to know that I am working so hard, at a personal cost to my family and business, for such patient folks. :angry: 

The preliminary results are attached - many thanks to all those good folks who have spent many hundreds of hours making this comp possible.

Dave

View attachment NSW_State_Entries_2012_Preliminary_results.pdf


----------



## bigfridge

barls said:


> yeah paul h is talking about the 2010 bitter and twisted comp, that took forever to get results and score sheets.



yeah, I heard that the organiser had a heap of personal and family medical problems and was not able to work much around that time. I know that other things were let slip so that the results got done at all.


----------



## a_quintal

bigfridge said:


> Final checking found some clerical errors - which have been resolved but not fully tripple checked.
> 
> So thanks to all the folks that were posting here about the progress of the results - it really does help to know that I am working so hard, at a personal cost to my family and business, for such patient folks. :angry:
> 
> The preliminary results are attached - many thanks to all those good folks who have spent many hundreds of hours making this comp possible.
> 
> Dave
> 
> View attachment 56746



I understand the excited impatience would be annoying. I honestly appreciate your effort, thanks for getting the results out so quickly despite other commitments.

Cheers,
Alex


----------



## tiprya

Thanks heaps bigfridge, and everyone who helped organise the competition.

This is my first comp, and the feedback will be invaluable for me.

Congrats to all the other brewers who submitted entries!


----------



## bigfridge

a_quintal said:


> I understand the excited impatience would be annoying. I honestly appreciate your effort, thanks for getting the results out so quickly despite other commitments.
> 
> Cheers,
> Alex



  :lol:


----------



## barls

thanks dave, congrates to all of the winners and thanks to the judges.


----------



## mosto

Well that's blown me away.

I've only been brewing since January and decided at the last minute to enter a beer to gain some feedback. To get second place in the Pale Lager class is a massive shock.

Many thanks to all the organisers, judges and stewards. Can't begin to imagine the work that would have been involved.


----------



## Josh

46 downloads in 27 minutes. Looks like the patient waiters far outweigh the naggers.

Thanks so much to all involved from HUB and the judges who travelled to put this thing on. Hopefully next year won't be so crazy and I'll be able to help.

Congrats to all who participated, and those who won. I got a first and second, pretty happy with that given my current housing situation.


----------



## a_quintal

mosto said:


> Well that's blown me away.
> 
> I've only been brewing since January and decided at the last minute to enter a beer to gain some feedback. To get second place in the Pale Lager class is a massive shock.
> 
> Many thanks to all the organisers, judges and stewards. Can't begin to imagine the work that would have been involved.



Yeah i'm stoked with a 4th place at my first comp.


----------



## Harry Volting

Thanks Fellas.


----------



## sama

well done hub,cheers


----------



## Barry

Thanks Dave for all your time and effort very much apppreciated. Congratulations to all who entered and a  if you gained a place. A big high five to Sam and Michael, well done.
:beer:


----------



## felon

A great big thanks to all those involved for dedicating their own time. Well done :beer:


----------



## piraterum

Thanks to everyone involved, your hard work and dedication to run such a top shelf event is greatly appreciated and to be commended :beerbang:


----------



## Jay Cee

Muggus said:


> My bad...had the entry fee down as $10 instead of $7 for Entry.



For those of us who paid $10 per entry, will there be a refund of monies accompanying the scoresheets?

Well done to all the entrants. I'll be joining some of you on the Nationals entrants list :beerbang:


----------



## Muggus

BOS a Rauchbier! That's awesome!
Well done to everyone involved.




Jay Cee said:


> For those of us who paid $10 per entry, will there be a refund of monies accompanying the scoresheets?
> 
> Well done to all the entrants. I'll be joining some of you on the Nationals entrants list :beerbang:


That's the plan. Didn't personally handle any money, but these details were recorded.


----------



## Brend0

Thanks a lot to all the organisers!1

Pretty stoked my Stout came 3rd! Would be interested to see what everyone scored.

Cheers guys!


----------



## waggastew

Adding my thanks as well. No doubt a massive undertaking that provides lots of valuable feedback to brewers. 

Happy to sneak a 4th for my AIPA, especially given it was only just carbed and it was a smallish boil volume (6-8L) partial. Not surprised that my Euro lager got second last, will no doubt come with a list of faults to work on!


----------



## Brend0

I actually had my bottles mixxed up and couldn't remember if it was a chocolate vanilla stout or a dry irish stout. I am sure the score sheet will reflect that.


----------



## Jay Cee

Muggus said:


> That's the plan. Didn't personally handle any money, but these details were recorded.



Thanks for replying, Mike.


----------



## Brend0

Any chance of seeing the scores? or am I asking too much at the moment..


----------



## Tony

bigfridge said:


> Final checking found some clerical errors - which have been resolved but not fully tripple checked.
> 
> So thanks to all the folks that were posting here about the progress of the results - it really does help to know that I am working so hard, at a personal cost to my family and business, for such patient folks. :angry:
> 
> The preliminary results are attached - many thanks to all those good folks who have spent many hundreds of hours making this comp possible.
> 
> Dave
> 
> View attachment 56746



A massive two thumbs up to the HUB club, any helpers and Potters for keeping another NSW state comp alive at very late notice.

I remember being an impatient entrant (so will Dave ) but in the end, these gigs (any brew comp) are run by volunteers giving up their own personal time, at personal cost, to hold an event...... unpaid...... that could so easily be lost if no-one tried. 

I didn't enter this year, but i still commend the efforts made by all involved! 

Dave....... if you ever need help with crunching numbers for a brew comp....... please feel free to ask me for help. I live with databases and spreadsheets working in automation, and would gladly give up some time to help out if needed, HUB member, entrant or not! If you plan to run judge training again, i will put a hand up too.

cheers


----------



## Plastic Man

A big thanks to all involved. Greatly appreciated !!


----------



## campro

Thanks all involved for your efforts. Chuffed with the results and look forward to getting feedback sheets.

Cheers
Rod


----------



## samhaldane

Big thanks to all involved in judging and organising the comp, sorry I couldn't make it up to help judge / steward.

Very happy with the BOS! I thought my american ales would do well this year, but the rauch came through in the end!

Big thanks to Barls who gave me some of his home smoked malt that I used in that batch :beer: 

There is only one bottle left now. Patiently waiting in the fridge for the nats


----------



## Tony

haldini said:


> Big thanks to all involved in judging and organising the comp, sorry I couldn't make it up to help judge / steward.
> 
> Very happy with the BOS! I thought my american ales would do well this year, but the rauch came through in the end!
> 
> Big thanks to Barls who gave me some of his home smoked malt that I used in that batch :beer:
> 
> There is only one bottle left now. Patiently waiting in the fridge for the nats



Congrats, and good luck at the AABC......... would be great to see a NSW'shman take it out.

Perhaps Barls can elaborate on the smoked malt? Im a fan of hone smoking malt!


----------



## samhaldane

Tony said:


> Congrats, and good luck at the AABC......... would be great to see a NSW'shman take it out.
> 
> Perhaps Barls can elaborate on the smoked malt? Im a fan of hone smoking malt!



Thanks Tony. I'd love to see NSW do better at the nationals this year too. I think we have a lot of great brewers.

Here is my recipe. I'm sure Barls will chime in the with details on the smoked malt (I can't remember what wood it was smoked with).

15m hops were in the cube (no chilled). I chilled the cube down to 8C in my fermentation fridge then pitched 2 packs of rehydrated S-189, then let it rise to 10C for a couple of days, then raised to 12C for two weeks. I brewed it in late Jan, so it's been lagering for a while.


Recipe: Rauch the Casbah
Style: 22A-Smoke-Flavored and Wood-Aged Beer-Classic Rauchbier

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 26.50 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.00 l
Volume Transferred: 21.00 l
Water Added: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 21.00 l
Final Batch Volume: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.057 SG
Expected OG: 1.069 SG
Expected FG: 1.018 SG
Expected ABV: 6.7 %
Expected ABW: 5.3 %
Expected IBU (using Rager): 38.9
Expected Color: 16.2 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 72.5 %
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 10 degC

Fermentables
German Smoked Malt 3.000 kg (43.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Pilsner Malt 2.000 kg (28.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 1.000 kg (14.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
Barls' Home Smoked Malt 0.500 kg (7.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
German CaraMunich III 0.250 kg (3.6 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Melanoidin Malt 0.100 kg (1.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Carafa Special III 0.100 kg (1.4 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
NZ Pacific Gem (16.9 % alpha) 13 g Loose Pellet Hops used 60 Min From End
NZ Pacific Gem (16.9 % alpha) 15 g Loose Pellet Hops used 15 Min From End

Other Ingredients

Yeast: DCL S-189-SafLager

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (68C/154F)
Step: Rest at 68 degC for 60 mins

Recipe Notes


----------



## barls

ok lets see, ive changed the method a few times so it was ether 90 degrees for 8 hours or cold smoked for 16 hours. im leaning towards 8 hours at 90.
it would of been a mix of maple, red cedar and black heart sassafras.
i soak the malt for about 10 minutes then add to the smoker. i refill the smoker every 4 hours and also stir the grain. its a rebadged hark smoker unit
ive currently got a rauch lagering for anhc club night that has some from the same batch.
ive also been playing with plum and apple smoked. 
any more questions feel free to ask and ill try to answer them.
this is the second time someone has used my grain and placed in this comp.


----------



## Bubba Q

big cheers for HUB for organising the comp and congrats to BOS, runner up and all place getters

how does one go about progressing to the AABC now?


----------



## MHB

I had the pleasure of tasting the last two beers after the judging of the BOS round.
Both were sensational but the Rauch was something special, a superbly brewed beer, flawless and a deserving winner.
Congratulations on such a splendid effort, especially for style where it is so hard to get balance right
Mark


----------



## samhaldane

MHB said:


> I had the pleasure of tasting the last two beers after the judging of the BOS round.
> Both were sensational but the Rauch was something special, a superbly brewed beer, flawless and a deserving winner.
> Congratulations on such a splendid effort, especially for style where it is so hard to get balance right
> Mark



Thanks Mark! Very kind words.


----------



## MHB

Mate I was trying to keep the superlatives under control
You brewed one hell of a good beer you deserve every word of praise you get.
Hope you like the books, they are three of the best brewing books I know of and I cant help but think they are going to a worthy owner.
Going to get out now before I start so sound all gushy 
Well done indeed
Mark


----------



## samhaldane

MHB said:


> Mate I was trying to keep the superlatives under control
> You brewed one hell of a good beer you deserve every word of praise you get.
> Hope you like the books, they are three of the best brewing books I know of and I cant help but think they are going to a worthy owner.
> Going to get out now before I start so sound all gushy
> Well done indeed
> Mark



I didn't actually know what the BOS prize was until you said that and I read back through the thread!

I am very much looking forward to getting into those books, especially the Kunze. Thanks very much for the prize Mark!


----------



## Brewman_

Well done Haldini!
Must have been some sort of beer, I was there but did not get to taste that one - spewing!

Mark, thanks for the great prize and support of the competition.

A big cheers to all of the other HUB guys, David for the hard slog getting it all pulled together. Keith and Jess and everyone from Potters and Shaun from Murray's.

Thanks to Mort and Barry, for being great all weekend. Met a lot passionate brewers, was fantastic.

Fear_n_loath.


----------



## petesbrew

No win for me, Oh well.
Thanks Dave and everyone else involved for running the comp and getting the results out. A big congrats to all winners too!


----------



## mikk

Holy fuckamolee, to say i'm happy with those results would be a bit of an understatement.

A big thanks to 
-HUB, & the judges/stewards that generously donated their time,
-the comp sponsors
-Mark/MHB for having the best grain/hop selection, vast brewing knowledge, & cheap shipping!
-the trusty braumeister for copping a flogging but loving it
-no chill.

Congrats to the winners/placers, and thanks to those that have offered their congrats to me. Good on you Sam
for your BOS beer & prizes, i guess i'll have to buy that Almanac now after all!


----------



## Harry Volting

Well done Haldini.
Must have been a cracker.
Pipped at the post.
Happy Days.

Harry (Peter).


----------



## mosto

Bubba Q said:


> big cheers for HUB for organising the comp and congrats to BOS, runner up and all place getters
> 
> how does one go about progressing to the AABC now?




From what I can work out, the entry form and details are here.

Still can't believe I qualified for the Nationals


----------



## mosto

Jay Cee said:


> We'll knock the other states dead !
> 
> I've a question. Used to think that the same beer (style not batch) had to be entered into the AABC, but now Im reading it to say that any style can be entered, as long as its in the same category as the qualifying beer. Is this correct? I need to brew something quick smart, because I have nothing of the qualifying style or even in the category to hand.



That's how I read it as well. I've still got seven bottles from the same batch my qualifying beer came from. Notice they only require one bottle for AABC. So that means six left for consumption. Funnily enough, after I put a picture of my beer on Facebook last night saying how happy I was with the my result, I was swamped with requests for a sample from a few mates, some of who laughed at me 8 months ago when I said I was getting into home brewing and told me I'd only make shit. So, no beer for them


----------



## christopher.whitten

Thanks again for all those involved! Congrats to all the place getters and good luck at Nats, time to beat those Mexicans.



Wit


----------



## mikk

Hey H.U.B guys, i've got 2 cubes of wort for you (if you want them) to do with as you see fit. Thought it might be a good way to say thanks to yourselves and the judges/stewards for the hard work running the comp.

1 cube placed a 3rd, the other didn't but is still a good drop!

I'm in Sydney, and am happy to help with collection/drop off elsewhere.

Nice work guys.


----------



## mckenry

mikk said:


> Hey H.U.B guys, i've got 2 cubes of wort for you (if you want them) to do with as you see fit. Thought it might be a good way to say thanks to yourselves and the judges/stewards for the hard work running the comp.
> 
> 1 cube placed a 3rd, the other didn't but is still a good drop!
> 
> I'm in Sydney, and am happy to help with collection/drop off elsewhere.
> 
> Nice work guys.



Hey Mikk,
You wouldnt be Michael Wallace, thats plastered all over the results sheet would you?


----------



## mikk

mckenry said:


> Hey Mikk,
> You wouldnt be Michael Wallace, thats plastered all over the results sheet would you?



Maybe...!
It seems i exceeded my goal of getting 4 'places', including a first. I haven't won a first place for anything since 1988 when i won 
a music eisteddfod as a 14 year old, so very happy.

I love making & drinking beer, so figured the best way to learn more would be to try to nail as many different base styles as 
possible. I have to say, I reckon i've leaned more about brewing in the last 7 months than i would have in 7 years had i not entered 
the competition so 'comprehensively'. Well worthwhile, & i can't recommend it highly enough. Competitions improve your brewing
immeasurably, & am grateful for the people that take time out of their busy lives to help run/organise them, & the sponsors that 
help make it a worthwhile & fun past-time.

I've been working since the results came out, so am enjoying my first celebration ale right now. (A Rochefort 6, if you must know!).

Good times, & i'm hoping to do well on behalf of the NSW team at the Nationals in October... Wish us luck!


----------



## Jay Cee

Team NSW ! 

You must have so much beer at your house right now. Yet you go for the R6! 

Are you re-brewing any of them for the Nationals, or entering samples from the same batch?


----------



## mikk

Jay Cee said:


> Team NSW !
> 
> You must have so much beer at your house right now. Yet you go for the R6!
> 
> Are you re-brewing any of them for the Nationals, or entering samples from the same batch?



Mild Ale- rebrew
English Bitter- rebrew
Munich Helles- ferment 2nd cube
ESB- original batch. This was actually a failed IPA, so 2nd place was a nice surprise! Hope it's still ok by Oct
Schwarzbier- rebrew
Oktoberfest-original batch (5 months of lagering already!)
Maibock- original batch (6 months of lagering already!). I think there's only a tiny splash in the bottom of the keg. Will cry if i can't fill a 650ml bottle with it!
American Stout- ferment 2nd cube. Surprised no-one else did an Am stout
Oak-aged robust porter- rebrew, but will be struggling for time. Ex Tatachilla winery oak staves used, & the submitted beer was past it's prime anyway.

Looking forward to October, as after that i'll be able to get back to a 'normal' (ie non beer obsessed) life again! 

Go team NSW!


----------



## Josh

mikk said:


> Maybe...
> 
> (snip)
> 
> Good times, & i'm hoping to do well on behalf of the NSW team at the Nationals in October... Wish us luck!



Ahh I was wondering if that was you. Congrats Mikk, outstanding results. Knock em dead at AABC!


----------



## samhaldane

mikk said:


> Mild Ale- rebrew
> English Bitter- rebrew
> Munich Helles- ferment 2nd cube
> ESB- original batch. This was actually a failed IPA, so 2nd place was a nice surprise! Hope it's still ok by Oct
> Schwarzbier- rebrew
> Oktoberfest-original batch (5 months of lagering already!)
> Maibock- original batch (6 months of lagering already!). I think there's only a tiny splash in the bottom of the keg. Will cry if i can't fill a 650ml bottle with it!
> American Stout- ferment 2nd cube. Surprised no-one else did an Am stout
> Oak-aged robust porter- rebrew, but will be struggling for time. Ex Tatachilla winery oak staves used, & the submitted beer was past it's prime anyway.
> 
> Looking forward to October, as after that i'll be able to get back to a 'normal' (ie non beer obsessed) life again!
> 
> Go team NSW!



Wow, looks like you've got some work to do! Good luck with the rebrews and good luck at the nationals. You'll be in with a chance for national champ for sure :beerbang:


----------



## mckenry

mikk said:


> Maybe...!
> It seems i exceeded my goal of getting 4 'places', including a first. I haven't won a first place for anything since 1988 when i won
> a music eisteddfod as a 14 year old, so very happy.
> 
> I love making & drinking beer, so figured the best way to learn more would be to try to nail as many different base styles as
> possible. I have to say, I reckon i've leaned more about brewing in the last 7 months than i would have in 7 years had i not entered
> the competition so 'comprehensively'. Well worthwhile, & i can't recommend it highly enough. Competitions improve your brewing
> immeasurably, & am grateful for the people that take time out of their busy lives to help run/organise them, & the sponsors that
> help make it a worthwhile & fun past-time.
> 
> I've been working since the results came out, so am enjoying my first celebration ale right now. (A Rochefort 6, if you must know!).
> 
> Good times, & i'm hoping to do well on behalf of the NSW team at the Nationals in October... Wish us luck!



I thought so. I went in on the mini champagne bottles bulk buy you did. You gave me a Belgian to take home. Not surprised you did well, that Belgian was a cracker.


----------



## Brend0

If you place do you get into Nationals?


----------



## Muggus

mikk said:


> Hey H.U.B guys, i've got 2 cubes of wort for you (if you want them) to do with as you see fit. Thought it might be a good way to say thanks to yourselves and the judges/stewards for the hard work running the comp.
> 
> 1 cube placed a 3rd, the other didn't but is still a good drop!
> 
> I'm in Sydney, and am happy to help with collection/drop off elsewhere.
> 
> Nice work guys.


Hey Michael,

If you're interesting if having your "award winning" beer(s) on show at the Bitter & Twisted in November let us know. We'll have a stand there again this year and more than happy to have some more great beers on show!


----------



## Jay Cee

Brend0 said:


> If you place do you get into Nationals?



Yes, you are correct. More info & entry form available at the following link: 

http://www.aabc.org.au/

Good Luck !


----------



## Brend0

Placing (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in any category at your State Qualifying Competition qualifies entrant to submit an entry, in the same category, at AABC 2012.


I am all out of stout, and that is what I qualified in...


----------



## mikk

Muggus said:


> Hey Michael,
> 
> If you're interesting if having your "award winning" beer(s) on show at the Bitter & Twisted in November let us know. We'll have a stand there again this year and more than happy to have some more great beers on show!




FOR SURE! I'm meant to be working that weekend, but will see what i can do. Will PM you with my details so you can let me know what the plan is...
Thanks for that.


----------



## drmush

At present I am in the UK visiting a few friends and 'rellies', so had dropped off several entries at Mark's home brew in Newcastle before leaving. A couple of days ago I was in London and called into a pub in Drury Lane and tried a wheat beer...I said to my wife I reckon my wheatie is almost up there with this one. She had a sip and said don't think so, this has more banana flavour and is not as thick as yours. To my delight I discovered the next day that my wheatie had taken first place...Yoohoo...I have been giving her c**p ever since..It has taken me four years to get from un-drinkable to 1st place in this category...so I am stoked. Many thanks to all the organisers and judges.

Cheers

Geoff


----------



## barls

are full results going to be posted with scores anytime soon. just wanted to see how my beers scored in comparison.


----------



## Jay Cee

Any answer to the post above ? It's been two and a half weeks since the event was to have officially concluded, and there's no full results, nor scoresheets been dispatched.

By comparison, full results for Castle Hill were wrapped up on the same day. Is there a problem with something on the HUB side of things ?


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> Any answer to the post above ?



If you would like to contact the organisers then you should use the details provided on the entry form as not may of them visit AHB these days.



Jay Cee said:


> It's been two and a half weeks since the event was to have officially concluded, and there's no full results, nor scoresheets been dispatched.
> 
> By comparison, full results for Castle Hill were wrapped up on the same day. Is there a problem with something on the HUB side of things ?



Castle Hill had "190 entries all judged in just under a day and a half" thanks to probably having a dozen Sydney judges at a guess ?

NSW comp had 320 entries judged over 5 session due to only having 4 sydney judges/stewards.

Judging was completed a week ago, with all scoresheets sorted into addressed envelopes ready for mailing - certificates being printed this week and prize situation being double chcked due to complaints from last year.

Some competitors have now claimed that they paid the wrong amount and would like a refund, so all envelopes need to be opened to check who paid $10 so that the $3 refund can be organised before they are posted back. This has all delayed the finalisation of the comp. I was able to take a week's leave from work to help with the competition, but when it extended into a second week I had worrk and travel committments that only allow things to be finalised at weekends.

There have been many offers of asitance from the local brewing community, but help is most needed on the day to prevent clerical errors from occuring. 

I can assure you that everyone associated with the comp has been doing their best and can only appologise if this has not been good enough.


----------



## piraterum

bigfridge said:


> If you would like to contact the organisers then you should use the details provided on the entry form as not may of them visit AHB these days.
> 
> 
> Castle Hill had "190 entries all judged in just under a day and a half" thanks to probably having a dozen Sydney judges at a guess ?
> 
> NSW comp had 320 entries judged over 5 session due to only having 4 sydney judges/stewards.
> 
> Judging was completed a week ago, with all scoresheets sorted into addressed envelopes ready for mailing - certificates being printed this week and prize situation being double chcked due to complaints from last year.
> 
> Some competitors have now claimed that they paid the wrong amount and would like a refund, so all envelopes need to be opened to check who paid $10 so that the $3 refund can be organised before they are posted back. This has all delayed the finalisation of the comp. I was able to take a week's leave from work to help with the competition, but when it extended into a second week I had worrk and travel committments that only allow things to be finalised at weekends.
> 
> There have been many offers of asitance from the local brewing community, but help is most needed on the day to prevent clerical errors from occuring.
> 
> I can assure you that everyone associated with the comp has been doing their best and can only appologise if this has not been good enough.




Squabbling over $3 FFS  

I reckon this should be pooled to shout a few beers for the judges! 

Top work fellas, seems alot of people forget this event is run by people volunteering their own time. Often taking time out of work and other commitments and travelling at their own expense to make this event possible. A bit of appreciation wouldn't go astray! :angry:


----------



## black_labb

By the sounds of things the judges had enough beer already between the 4 of them!


----------



## barls

bigfridge said:


> NSW comp had 320 entries judged over 5 session due to only having 4 sydney judges/stewards.


at least you should acknowledge one point here. people have things planned out well in advance these days. Announce the comp dates earlier than one month before and you might get more people show up. personally i would of come up for a drive but had booked flights to new zealand back in march for that date.

you keep making this point, how many judges for newcastle have we seen in Sydney the last couple of years for any of the other comps, including when the states was up here.
i can count them on one hand. 
hell we even moved one of the case swaps up to port Stephen’s as the common complaint from those in newcastle was its too far to drive up for a day and we only got one newcastle person involved and that was mugus.

there ive said it now.

i do appreciate the effort put in by all involved but can we do it without the whinging and pointed comments.


----------



## petesbrew

For the organisers, judges & stewards it's a labour of love. They have personal lives, jobs & families as well, so hats off to them for arranging the time to fit in the comp for us to enter.
I know I was one of the ones checking every 15 minutes for the results to get posted. Can't help getting excited, can we?

Would've loved to help steward in this (despite the distance) and the Castle Hill comp, but I just couldn't do it this year with family commitments.
I'm now patiently looking forward to see the judges comments on my Belgian PA and where I may have gone wrong with my Altbier.


----------



## lagerman

I don't usually make any comments on the forum but regarding these competitions I feel I would like a say.
As most of you would know we ran a very successful comp. here in Bathurst for many years with great success.

We don't do it any more for many reasons. Getting judges to travel to Bathurst was getting difficult. I understand that these guys and gals take time off their work and travel and accommodate themselves usually at their own cost. Without ample judges it is hard to get thru all the beers. Once we got over 500 entries in Bathurst one year and had judges up until 2.00am in the morning judging. Also you do loose you taste buds after too many beer tastings.

One of the most annoying things for us was you would always get someone on line on Sunday afternoon wanting to know the results. I see it still happens. I know what is involved in getting results out and double checking scores and additions. My wife had a great team behind her to help do this and we were always proud of the fact that we would get results, judges sheets and prizes sent out within a week of the comp.

My point is that these guys from HUB and that run the Castle Hill comp. are doing there best so instead of being critical just give them a pat on the back for having a go. I do agree that the 2 comps. were too close but these guys have to do the best they can with work committments and the availability of judges. With the BJCP thing now there are more judges available but they are not always able to make a comp. for various reasons.

Onother factor is you have no idea how many entries you are going to get. In Bathurst we could get 100 entries or 500 (in 1 case). I think a good system now with the Internet would be to have entrants nominate what beers they are putting in say 3 weeks before closing date and then you will know how many beers you will have in plenty of time. Most brewers will have beer on hand for a comp. We all know the classes and styles for most comps. so you have plenty of time to make that particular beer you might want to enter.

From my experience most brewers are after feed back on their beers and are not "Trophy Hunters".

So maybe more time to notify when comps. are on and an early regristration of entries and that will give organizers some time to get prepared.

My rave is over and all the best to all winners and those who are running these comps.

The Bigfella


----------



## MattC

lagerman said:


> I think a good system now with the Internet would be to have entrants nominate what beers they are putting in say 3 weeks before closing date and then you will know how many beers you will have in plenty of time.



This is a good idea


----------



## bigfridge

barls said:


> at least you should acknowledge one point here. people have things planned out well in advance these days. Announce the comp dates earlier than one month before and you might get more people show up. personally i would of come up for a drive but had booked flights to new zealand back in march for that date.



Sorry but it is not up to me to acknowledge anything about how the AABC is organised.

For as long as I can remember, the AABC has been held in October - which means that the state qualifying events are held in August to give entrants the time to re-brew any qualifying entries.

So it was always going to be difficult for you to assist as you had decided back in March to be out of the country during the 'comp season'.



barls said:


> you keep making this point, how many judges for newcastle have we seen in Sydney the last couple of years for any of the other comps, including when the states was up here.
> i can count them on one hand.



I don't know about other years but I have certainly bought a car full down to judge at Castle Hill.

But from my perspective - the Castle Hill comp is a regional comp run by the Sydney brewers to benefit the brewers of the Sydney area.

The NSW state comp was run by the Hunter Brewers to benefit the brewers from the whole of the state - hence they needed the support of the whole state.

Ask not what the state comp has done for you - ask what you can do for the state comp.


----------



## Gough

bigfridge said:


> Sorry but it is not up to me to acknowledge anything about how the AABC is organised.
> 
> For as long as I can remember, the AABC has been held in October - which means that the state qualifying events are held in August to give entrants the time to re-brew any qualifying entries.
> 
> So it was always going to be difficult for you to assist as you had decided back in March to be out of the country during the 'comp season'.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about other years but I have certainly bought a car full down to judge at Castle Hill.
> 
> But from my perspective - the Castle Hill comp is a regional comp run by the Sydney brewers to benefit the brewers of the Sydney area.
> 
> The NSW state comp was run by the Hunter Brewers to benefit the brewers from the whole of the state - hence they needed the support of the whole state.
> 
> Ask not what the state comp has done for you - ask what you can do for the state comp.



Your last line says it all Dave. 

The effort put into this comp is obviously misunderstood by you guys. Every panel of judges had at least one bjcp certified judge. This isn't easy to achieve. Feedback was long and detailed for each entrant. No judges were asked to judge inappropriate categories for their skillset. The BOS was held days later with a very experienced panel with fresh palates. Every possible thing was done to make this the best comp possible. Care is now being taken to ensure results etc aren't stuffed up. And yet you guys whinge...

Dave I understand why after so many years you aren't up for this again. You are a vital contributor to the home brew scene and have been for longer than I can remember. These guys and craft beer in Australia owe your efforts a lot. I hope these guys contribute half as much to the brew community as you some day. 

I'll be back to help out again next year if needed but all this has left a sour taste.

Shawn Sherlock

Head Brewer 
Murray's Craft Brewing Co.


----------



## Keith the Beer Guy

While I was composing a post I notice that Shawn has beat me to it.



Volunteer organisations rely on people to put their hand up and do work.


I want to express my appreciation to all the HUB team, Mort, Graheme, Kelly, Barry and to Dave in particular for their time & hard work over the competition & the days that have followed.


My constructive advice to those of you who want to enact change is to to put your hand up and volunteer to do some work. The whining does not do credit to the passion and hard work put in by so many members of the brewing community.



Keith Grice

Head Brewer
Hunter Beer Co.


----------



## bigfridge

Thanks Keith & Shawn for the kind words of support - but I realise that any critisism is the product of a lack of experience rather than any ill-feeling. ... more to be pitied than despised ... as PM Paul Keating yelled at Andrew Peacock.

We have tried to run a quality comp, focussing on accuracy and feedback.

One aspect we are particularly proud of is the Beer of Show evaluation where 2 BJCP Certified Professional brewers (Shawn and Keith) and an internationally qualified professional brewer who trains other brewers in flavour analysis (Geoff) spent 2 hours tasting and debating the merits of all the individual category winners to arrive at the eventual Champion beer. This takes a lot more effort than just taking the beer with the highiest score, but is well known to produce a far fairer result given the spread of scores assigned by the different judging panels.

He is too modest to mention it, but we finished around 8pm and Shawn had to be up and brewing at 4am the next morning - all for the warm glow of helping the Home Brewing community.

Anyway we are in the final stage of this month long journey so everyone should be very happy soon.

Dave


----------



## Jay Cee

Good God, talk about an over-reaction! People are enquiring about the full results, there is no crime in that ! We are told time & again of the great sacrifices Bigfridge has made (by Bigfridge himself) and praise has been stated accordingly across many pages. Trying to assign blame for clerical delays on another city's judges non-attendance at short notice is poor form, and the woeful defensiveness does no justice to the future of the NSW amateur brewing. 

Clearly those involved are doing what they can with present resources available, but you cannot begrudge entrants their anticipation. 

Sour taste indeed, but maybe not from the same glass that you guys are drinking from.


----------



## Gough

Fair enough, life's too short...

I hope you did well in the comp and that you are happy when you receive your certificates etc. We put the effort in for what it's worth and I think those who did well at this comp should be very happy with their results. They earned them.

Definitely enough input on this from me. I stand 100% by my earlier post, Dave, and the efforts of the HUB boys.

Cheers and proudly 'regional' Beers,

Shawn


----------



## Weizguy

I'd like to add my input to the bitch-fest but can't be bothered, other than to state that I'm glad I was part of the solution and not part of the problem.

Cheers to HUB, however slow and shabby we may appear to the rest of the state, we have big hearts and broad shoulders.


----------



## a_quintal

From my point of view I am absolutely satisfied with the way the comp was run and look forward to the comments in the mail. Thanks to HUB and all the judges, really appreciate it.


----------



## warra48

Cheers and thanks to all involved in running this competition.
For $7 per entry, it's worth it just for the feedback on the beer I entered.
I don't care if it takes a week or two or three to get the judging sheets back. It doesn't alter the result.

And to all the whingers, try to exercise some patience, get a life, move on, and show some appreciation for an organisation which really does it all on what is in reality a voluntary basis.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

warra48 said:


> Cheers and thanks to all involved in running this competition.
> For $7 per entry, it's worth it just for the feedback on the beer I entered.
> I don't care if it takes a week or two or three to get the judging sheets back. It doesn't alter the result.
> 
> And to all the whingers, try to exercise some patience, get a life, move on, and show some appreciation for an organisation which really does it all on what is in reality a voluntary basis.




Too true. 

Some people will remember I was in the thick of defending state and national championships a few years back - history repeats!

It's a NSW thing too - the problem with having a lot of brewers but few properly organised clubs. You got to just about beg for judges and stewards to come help - some will always make the effort but many people don't think / want to be there. I'm really peeved that I really wanted to be at both but other things took precedence. I'm really pissed off I wont be at the Nationals this year - my first absence in some 5 years. (But I am coming down for Club Night). I'm big enough to fill a small stadium, but even I can't be in two places at once.

Let's stop throwing the barbs and bullshit around here. HUBs - champion effort. All take a bow. Castle Hillers - you know I love you all long time!

:beerbang:


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> Good God, talk about an over-reaction! People are enquiring about the full results, there is no crime in that ! We are told time & again of the great sacrifices Bigfridge has made (by Bigfridge himself) and praise has been stated accordingly across many pages. Trying to assign blame for clerical delays on another city's judges non-attendance at short notice is poor form, and the woeful defensiveness does no justice to the future of the NSW amateur brewing.
> 
> Clearly those involved are doing what they can with present resources available, but you cannot begrudge entrants their anticipation.
> 
> Sour taste indeed, but maybe not from the same glass that you guys are drinking from.




Dear Jay Cee (can I call you J ?)

There is not much more that I or any other reasonable person can say, so I won't bother.

I will just add you to my list of prayers each night as you are obviously suffering greatly.

Currently I have my mother dying of cancer in Perth hospital, the treatment for my son suffering from anxiety and not able to leave the house and my 10 year battle with depression that affects my ability to work when life's pressures get too great - on my list. But there is still room for you.

I have seen the best of human nature demonstrated by the louder that you protest, the more posts and emails of support that I get from my mates and brewers unknown.

Perhaps you should consider giving up brewing if it causes you such distress. 

No need to reply as I won't see it - welcome to my Kill File.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Jay Cee

Youre a joke. Nobody is mention suffering, distress nor protesting anything. You have single handedly turned this into an unnecessary drama over something so small. Your behaviour in this thread is disgraceful. 

I urge anyone following this thread to look for all of these so-called 'whinges' before taking the last few comments at face value, and you will determine that the woeful strains are from the North more than anywhere else. Clearly Bigfridge is manipulating the situation to cover for his own shortcomings. 


People ask about the results > bigfridge gets cranky
People ask about the delays > bigfridge blames Sydney judges for not attending at four weeks notice

This is my last word on what Dave has made into a great woeful spectacle for NSW as a whole, and assigned himself as the poor martyr for the Hunter region. If youre representative of the NSW arm of BJCP representation, then I'm wiping my hands of the whole thing in future. 

Thanks for everything, MATE.


----------



## Jay Cee

And I have just requested a moderator suspend my access. I want nothing to do with this schoolyard BS and manipulative behaviour. 

To the rest of the HB team, cheers. To the placegetters, hope you enjoy their prizes. Oh wait NSW was the only state who didnt bother organizing any. Despite being the richest comp in the nation, with the highest volume entry (2 bottles) recommended. Hope everyone gets their extra money back from the 'clerical error'.

Good Bye.


----------



## petesbrew




----------



## dr K

I happened over this thread (more a razor wire I might say) last night and kept uncharacteristically clamped.



> One aspect we are particularly proud of is the Beer of Show evaluation where 2 BJCP Certified Professional brewers (Shawn and Keith) and an internationally qualified professional brewer who trains other brewers in flavour analysis (Geoff) spent 2 hours tasting and debating the merits of all the individual category winners to arrive at the eventual Champion beer. This takes a lot more effort than just taking the beer with the highiest score, but is well known to produce a far fairer result given the spread of scores assigned by the different judging panels.



I know (if not all well) Dave, Shawn , Keith and Geoff and have nothing but the highest respect for them, not only for their ability to brew the occassional decent beer but for their huge combined knowledge and the long term committments they have made to making brewing a better place, but that is not the primary point of this post.

Canberra Brewers are not better brewers than any other club, the ACT not better than than any other State, in fact looking at what some peoples rigs are most of us are back with the dinsaurs brewery wise. Canberra Brewers generally do very well in the Nationals.
Canberra Brewers do well because we take our local competitions seriously and our qualifying comp for the Nationals extremely seriously, yes we have a decent pool of judges but further our panels are chosen giving thought to subject matter experience, we want the best three beers to place, if it takes a bit longer to organise, a bit longer to conduct, a bit longer to QA, well sorry it will, its not a Sunday picnic with a few three legged races (all of which is great fun).

Well done HUB you given your comrades beers the time and respect they deserve..see you at the B and T !!!

Kurtz


----------



## Barley Belly

Thought I was getting a bit of Dj vu with this thread. 

Reminds me very much of a previous topic thread from about this post on http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=706570

Don't take my word for it. Have a read for yourself.


----------



## bigfridge

Barley Belly said:


> Thought I was getting a bit of Dj vu with this thread.
> 
> Reminds me very much of a previous topic thread from about this post on http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=706570
> 
> Don't take my word for it. Have a read for yourself.



Yup things don't change much around here - I have always been hopeless yet innocent folks keep sending me beer to judge  

But I do beleive that this point was answered ealier in the thread.


----------



## Barley Belly

bigfridge said:


> Yup things don't change much around here - I have always been hopeless yet innocent folks keep sending me beer to judge
> 
> But I do beleive that this point was answered ealier in the thread.




Don't get me wrong, I don't have an informed opinion either way because I've never been involved in the competition/judging scene.

I just love a good old fashioned shit slinging match and there's plenty round here.



One thing I will say, in the Hunter region we are blessed to have as many top brewers and associated people who are more than welcome to share their knowledge and time. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Les the Weizguy said:


> I'd like to add my input to the bitch-fest but can't be bothered, other than to state that I'm glad I was part of the solution and not part of the problem.
> 
> Cheers to HUB, however slow and shabby we may appear to the rest of the state, we have big hearts and broad shoulders.




I've never seen you look shabby ... ugly, bloody, but never shabby.

Us country folk gotta stick together!


----------



## sama

from what i can gather from the comments here, there seems some sort of nasty history between sydney and hunter,tho why on earth is there a major comp in relatively the same period as the state comp anyhow...? i wouldve thought all would be working for the benefit of state comp, regardless of where its held?????


----------



## Barley Belly

sama said:


> from what i can gather from the comments here, there seems some sort of nasty history between sydney and hunter,tho why on earth is there a major comp in relatively the same period as the state comp anyhow...? i wouldve thought all would be working for the benefit of state comp, regardless of where its held?????



All does seem unstable


----------



## bigfridge

Barley Belly said:


> All does seem unstable



Don't know why - personally I really like the Sydney mob and have had great times whenever we meet. Many of us go so far back that we feel like we hatched from the same clutch of dinosaur eggs.

:lol:


----------



## bigfridge

*Progress Report* 

I have gone back through the envelopes and found that 22 competitors used the entry form that had the $10 entry fee printed.

But unfortunately many entry forms are not properly filled out so we don't know if $10 or $7 were paid. Also a few competitiors rounded up their entry money eg 7 entries = $49 but $50 is paid with a '$1 tip' noted. This is balanced by the 1 or 2 entrants that forgot to enclose any entry fee at all.

The end result is that while the total entry fees returned is just about right (only out by a few dollars) there is probably a few entrants that have paid too much.

I will send an email to all these entrants to see what we owe them.

Dave


----------



## a_quintal

Keep it all. Surely no one would care about a couple dollars. 

Hats off to you're diligence though.


----------



## sama

Great stuff,looking forward to the feedback.


----------



## Harry Volting

Thanks Dave.
Looking forward to the feedback prior to the re-brew for the nationals.
Harry.


----------



## Brend0

I have been without internet at home for some a couple of weeks now... Have they put on the net yet what everyone scored?



Cheers!


----------



## grod5

The Annual bitch fest is on again I see, maybe the best way to inform the organisers about displeasure is via a PM or some other direct contact. Maybe the best way is not to participate next year.

daniel


----------



## Rob S

My 2c, thanks for the organisers for volunteering their time and energy for this.


----------



## bigfridge

All sorting an corrections are now complete.

The envelopes will be posted tomorrow.

Thanks
Dave


----------



## a_quintal

bigfridge said:


> All sorting an corrections are now complete.
> 
> The envelopes will be posted tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks
> Dave



Woohoo

Thanks again for everything Dave.


----------



## bigfridge

Just confirming that the envelopes have left the building. Thanks to all the helpers and for the messages of thanks and support from the patient folks.

I have attached a copy of the final results and cobvering letter sent to all competitors. These results replace the draft versions posted here earlier due to the need to comply with the AABA requirement for separating tied scores.

Over and out,
David

View attachment NSW_State_Results_2012.pdf


----------



## MHB

A big thanks to all, especially bigfridge, the judges stewards and all involved, there were some wonderful beers presented, had the pleasure of handing out 3, 40+ point scores in the very small flight I helped judge, which says a lot about the standard of beer being brewed in NSW.

Sorry Dave but someone has to - Class 9 Peter Davis had two entries, one won the class and was the BOS runner up, the other came in 7th looks like the score for the second beer has been put in for both. Sort of dumb shit I do, glad I not the only one.
Mark


----------



## bigfridge

MHB said:


> Sorry Dave but someone has to - Class 9 Peter Davis had two entries, one won the class and was the BOS runner up, the other came in 7th looks like the score for the second beer has been put in for both. Sort of dumb shit I do, glad I not the only one.
> Mark



Thanks Mark, but the results are correct as printed.

You can see that there were 2 panels of 4 judges and each panel assigned scores to the beers that they judged. A Mini BOS was then held between the two panels of judges and they agreed on the relative merits of the top beers and assigned the placings. 

Hence the actual score recorded is not absolutely related to the awarded place. It is not related to any brewer entering multiple beers in a category as the names of the brewers are never known on the competition floor.

HTH,
Dave


----------



## MHB

Fair cop
Mark


----------



## Barry

Received my score sheets and certificates today. Great feedback, especially for the not so good beers.
Thanks Dave et al :icon_cheers:


----------



## Brewman_

I also got my score sheets today, thanks again.

Some great feedback. Some of the feedback is so obvious, when you read and reflect on it and have a taste of the beers again. Some other points made by the judges are things that were not so obvious, and is more subtle. To me the feed back is what it is about.

Fear_n_loath


----------



## a_quintal

Got my score sheets and certificate just then. I can see the effort that goes in, must be so much work for that many entries.

Love the feedback.


----------



## felon

Thanks again for all the effort put in. My certificates and scoresheets arrived this morning. Some great ideas from the judges to help my beers.


----------



## Jay Cee

bigfridge said:


> All sorting an corrections are now complete.





bigfridge said:


> the results are correct as printed.



Are you sure about those statements, chief? There may be four people who will question a final score of 105 in category 13. 

Especially the #1 listing (that's me!), who upon viewing the preliminary results, gave up his time to do the 100km round trip to get ingredients, frantically spend 10 hours brewing & bottling two batches, one of which would be decided upon to enter the Nationals. 

Or spare a thought for the #4 listing, who I believe should be bumped up to 3rd place (as #2 & #3 should be). He'll be quite annoyed if he needs to re-brew, but no longer has the timeframe to do so, with the AABC entry deadline just around the corner. 







bigfridge said:


> the actual score recorded is not absolutely related to the awarded place



FYI: The#1 place in Category 13 should read as 70 points. This is due to three judges submitting totals of 33, 36 & 36, and recalculating to a % figure, which is BJCP standard. The scores that follow in the results sheet are significantly higher at 78, 76 & 74.5. I find it difficult impossible to accept the #1 award or the opportunity to compete in the Nationals if it means that another rightfully excellent brewer misses out due to a mistake. 

I'm hoping that someone from the organising committee of HUB can (publicly) clarify these discrepancies, and make the assurance to all entrants that this is an isolated incident, which does not affect the validity of the rest of the comp results.


----------



## Jay Cee

To ensure the matters are not confused with one another (these are unrelated), allow me to present a second (of three) questions to HUB. 

I have taken receipt of the following certificates, delivered by the Posite this morning. I have photographed them as reference, because I do not have a scanner: 







Respectively, these beers placed 15th & 4th. The cover letter accompanying the scoresheets would indicate that #1 = Gold, #2 = Silver & #3 = Bronze. 

How does a beer placed 15th a Bronze ranking ?


----------



## warra48

Jay Cee said:


> To ensure the matters are not confused with one another (these are unrelated), allow me to present a second (of three) questions to HUB.
> 
> I have taken receipt of the following certificates, delivered by the Posite this morning. I have photographed them as reference, because I do not have a scanner:
> 
> [Respectively, these beers placed 15th & 4th. The cover letter accompanying the scoresheets would indicate that #1 = Gold, #2 = Silver & #3 = Bronze.
> 
> How does a beer placed 15th a Bronze ranking ?



My guess, and it's only a guess:

. The Awards are done similarly to wine judging competitions. 
. It is not based on your place, but where the points awarded land against a pre-determined range.

For example, it's quite possible for say 30 to 40% of the field in a class to get gold awards in wine shows etc etc.

It's obviously not done on the Olympic method!


----------



## Jay Cee

bigfridge said:


> Some competitors have now claimed that they paid the wrong amount and would like a refund, so all envelopes need to be opened to check who paid $10 so that the $3 refund can be organised before they are posted back. This has all delayed the finalisation of the comp.



For me, $12 is neither here nor there, but when you multiply that by "x", one does wonder how much extra was paid across the whole comp. However, based on your statement above, I'm looking into all corners of the big yellow envelope, and I don't see a cheque. The total funds submitted was very clear on the forms, as evidenced below. It's not too big a task to determine from the names on the results tally that 4 entries = $10 per entry.


----------



## MHB

Clearly we cant find a moderator when we need one your account is still open!
Im not on the HUB committee, but I think even I know most of the answers

I think that flight might have had a third judge, personally I have always thought raw scoring was rather silly and that all results should be posted as percentage so in this case 105/150*100 or 70% or 35/50. I suspect #4 may have in fact have a score of 24.8/50 or 49.6% however you want to phrase it.

Medals are decided on a score not a place, if all the beers in the flight were stunningly good and scored over 40/50, they might all be awarded a GOLD medals, but only one of them can get first place, beers scoring between 30-40 might be awarded a SILVER medal and so on, Im far from sure what the cut-off for the various divisions is, but thats a pretty common way to distribute medals in wine comps and the like.
But I suspect you knew all that as did most here and just wanted to do a bit more whinging.
Mark


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> For me, $12 is neither here nor there, but when you multiply that by "x", one does wonder how much extra was paid across the whole comp. However, based on your statement above, I'm looking into all corners of the big yellow envelope, and I don't see a cheque. The total funds submitted was very clear on the forms, as evidenced below. It's not too big a task to determine from the names on the results tally that 4 entries = $10 per entry.



From the covering letter sent with each result pack and posted earlier to AHB.

"Finally, due to a clerical error there were some entry forms used where the fee was specified as
$10. This was quickly corrected to $7 but it may be possible that some entrants paid the incorrect,
higher fee. As it is not possible to determine whether the incorrect amount was actually paid, or if
only the form was wrong, would you please contact the organizing committee to request a refund.
Please send your banking details an the amount claimed to [email protected]"

I know that Mr Jay Cee is perfect, but a lot of people used the $10 version of the entry form, but still managed to send the correct amount.

Please just comply with our request and you will get your refund.


----------



## AndrewQLD

MHB said:


> Clearly we cant find a moderator when we need one your account is still open!
> Im not on the HUB committee, but I think even I know most of the answers
> 
> I think that flight might have had a third judge, personally I have always thought raw scoring was rather silly and that all results should be posted as percentage so in this case 105/150*100 or 70% or 35/50. I suspect #4 may have in fact have a score of 24.8/50 or 49.6% however you want to phrase it.
> 
> Medals are decided on a score not a place, if all the beers in the flight were stunningly good and scored over 40/50, they might all be awarded a GOLD medals, but only one of them can get first place, beers scoring between 30-40 might be awarded a SILVER medal and so on, Im far from sure what the cut-off for the various divisions is, but thats a pretty common way to distribute medals in wine comps and the like.
> But I suspect you knew all that as did most here and just wanted to do a bit more whinging.
> Mark




Moderators don't close accounts that's up to admin, however the rest of your comments are spot on from what I remember when I was a Qld delegate and several people can achieve a bronze, silver or gold in the one class.
And I agree also that it is a stupid way of awarding in a competition and was obviously introduced to "encourage" brewers to enter as there is always a good chance of receiving a medal to show off.

Andrew


----------



## Rob S

Got my beer report today. Thanks to all those involved it was excellent to get some expert feedback on my beers. I'm very happy with my silver certificate and yes I'll be showing it off to anyone that I can and telling them tall stories of how awesome the beer was. Thanks again.


----------



## Jay Cee

MHB said:


> Clearly we cant find a moderator when we need one your account is still open!



I did ask Batz (a moderator) to give me a 'time out' because I was pretty negative about Dave & Shawn's comments, but he said it was an admin request. Regardless, I'm still here, and I'm asking legitimate questions, because I do not understand the finer points of how this is panning out. People can say "Oh youre a f&&ing whinger" as much as they wish, but I'm querying matters relating to a comp that I entered. It's being done publicly firstly because I hope that others aren't going to miss out on a place due to administrative errors, and secondly because HUB have made this thread the official channel in which to communicate all aspects of the comp. 

This is probably my fourth year of entering competitions, and I don't understand some of the details. Undoubtedly it would serve me well to steward next time 'round. I asked a question of Stuart Upton a few years ago as to why I placed lower than an award winner, and he took the time to explain it - I don't quite get it, but that's why we ask questions, right? 



MHB said:


> I think that flight might have had a third judge, personally I have always thought raw scoring was rather silly and that all results should be posted as percentage so in this case 105/150*100 or 70% or 35/50. I suspect #4 may have in fact have a score of 24.8/50 or 49.6% however you want to phrase it.



Yes, there were three judges for that flight, and the figure was not averaged out. I made my correct score evident in a thread earlier. As for raw scoring, Maybe, or maybe not a good idea. Whether it be one judge, multiplying by two, or three judges multiplying by 0.666 to determine an 'out of 100' score, I do think it's a solid system. I hadn't given it much thought until yesterday, and seeing the glaringly obvious 105 points. I knew where the error laid before I viewed the scoresheets. 



MHB said:


> Medals are decided on a score not a place, if all the beers in the flight were stunningly good and scored over 40/50, they might all be awarded a GOLD medals, but only one of them can get first place, beers scoring between 30-40 might be awarded a SILVER medal and so on, Im far from sure what the cut-off for the various divisions is, but thats a pretty common way to distribute medals in wine comps and the like.



What I don't understand is how a beer that ranked #15 scored a Bronze. The highest score in Category 17 (Farmhouse & Wild) was 81.5, and the lowest was 39 on a table of 20 entries. I'm not claiming to be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I'm reluctant to accept a Bronze certificate for a beer that was on the bottom-end of the tally sheet.


----------



## Jay Cee

Rob S said:


> I'm very happy with my silver certificate and yes I'll be showing it off to anyone that I can and telling them tall stories of how awesome the beer was. Thanks again.



Congratulations. Are you the Rob S. that scored 7th in Category 8 ? If so, that means that we _*both*_ scored a silver certificate in the same category.


----------



## a_quintal

Yeah this seemed fairly obvious to me. Hence despite finishing fourth in a category I wasn't surprised I got a Silver because I was aware the actual beer score was high enough for that.


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> The#1 place in Category 13 should read as 70 points. This is due to three judges submitting totals of 33, 36 & 36, and recalculating to a % figure, which is BJCP standard. The scores that follow in the results sheet are significantly higher at 78, 76 & 74.5. I find it difficult impossible to accept the #1 award or the opportunity to compete in the Nationals if it means that another rightfully excellent brewer misses out due to a mistake.



Thank you Justin for your honesty - you have found an error, but your analysis is not correct. When your beer was judged there was a trainee judge and their score has been mistakenly added into the result. This has been corrected in the attached summary.

FYI, according to the AABC rules you are only prermitted to re-brew "If the original beer is no longer available, entrants may submit a
different beer in the same or a different style in that category".


View attachment NSW_State_Entries_2012.pdf


----------



## Jay Cee

bigfridge said:


> Please just comply with our request and you will get your refund.



Keep it, Dave. Buy yourself a Delerium Tremens as my shout.


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> The cover letter accompanying the scoresheets would indicate that #1 = Gold, #2 = Silver & #3 = Bronze.
> 
> How does a beer placed 15th a Bronze ranking ?



The actual wording of the covering letter was:

"We have enclosed a complete copy of the results together with your score sheets and a certificate. Each certificate shows if your beer placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd, together with a Gold, Silver or Bronze ranking. This allows you to see both how good your beer was, together with a comparison against the other brewers."

So the "1st, 2nd or 3rd" represents how you went against other beers.

"Gold, Silver or Bronze ranking" allows you to see both how good your beer was.

The actual vales are:

38-50 Points: Gold
30-37 Points: Silver
25-29 Points: Bronze

These medals equate to the BJCP's *scoring guide* with Gold covering Outstanding (World-class example of style) and Excellent (Exemplifies style well, requires minor fine-tuning), Silver equates to Very Good (Generally within style parameters, some minor flaws). A bronze medal is awarded for those beers at the top end of the Good range (21 - 29 "Misses the mark on style and/or minor flaws"). This medal system is also similar to the awards at the Australian International Beer Awards for commercial breweries.

If your beer scored less that 25 you received a participation Certificate which is still something to brag about as 'you were there'.

Justin, I hope that this answers your query, but if you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> Keep it, Dave. Buy yourself a Delerium Tremens as my shout.



Thanks but it doesn't help me at all as the entry fees were passed on long ago to the Treasurer and used to cover the comp expenses and thing like covering part of the judges out of pocket expenses like accomodation costs.

Dave


----------



## Jay Cee

bigfridge said:


> Thank you Justin for your honesty - you have found an error, but your analysis is not correct.




Thanks Dale. I'm not comfortable in taking a placemark from others (and certainly not from the new #1, who brewed a beer that was leaps & bounds more exceptional thank mine) You might note that a few pages before I actually mentioned that I entered an infected IPA. A hearty congratulations to the new winners of Category #13 and I hope you all do NSW proud. 



bigfridge said:


> When your beer was judged there was a trainee judge and their score has been mistakenly added into the result. This has been corrected in the attached summary.



Here's another aspect where I hope you can clarify, without taking a passive-aggressive stance in your response. It is my understanding that in other comps of recent times, there have been instances where non-certified, apprentice and even non-BJCP-studying stewards have been enlisted to act as part of the judging panel, due to a shortage of (judge) numbers. In these instances, they were under the tutelage of the experts, and their scores were passed as legitimate. 

In the case of those judging category #13, the scoresheets indicate that of the three judges, TWO of them were non-certified (not singular, as your comment suggests). Barry was the only one qualified to do so. Therefore, I wonder how you recalculated, based on your statement above ? If you are going to strike off the non-qualified members of the flight, then Barry's is the only one to be considered, and multiplied by 2. Which works out OK in your amended sheet, but let's be clear about it that only one person that you deem to be recognised is actually recorded. 

That does beg the question though..... is there an expectation that comps should be run with only a single qualified person giving feedback? 




bigfridge said:


> FYI, according to the AABC rules you are only prermitted to re-brew "If the original beer is no longer available, entrants may submit a
> different beer in the same or a different style in that category".




And what's your point ? I have no more of the IPA I entered, and frantically rebrewed beers based on the preliminary placings, only to be made aware that I didn't place (well in fact I'm alerting you guys to the error). I can't speak for the #4th placegetter who has been bumped into the qualifying zone, thanks to my posts today, but damn, he's going to be a bit miffed if he needed to re-brew for a 13th October entry deadline into the AABC. 

I speak only of my own observations on the 'clerical errors'. How much deeper does it go ? 


View attachment 57250


----------



## AndrewQLD

Just to clarify a point Jay Cee, you do not need to be BJCP certified to judge in a brewing competition, that is a qualification studied for and obtained by individuals for their own reasons and is not a requirement at any of the competitions that are held in Australia as far as I am aware. There are plenty of highly experienced judges out there that did not study for the BJCP exam and are just as good as those that have.

Andrew


----------



## Jay Cee

a_quintal said:


> Yeah this seemed fairly obvious to me. Hence despite finishing fourth in a category I wasn't surprised I got a Silver because I was aware the actual beer score was high enough for that.



Would you feel the same about receiving a bronze 'medal' for placing 15th ? 




bigfridge said:


> The actual vales are:
> 
> 38-50 Points: Gold
> 30-37 Points: Silver
> 25-29 Points: Bronze
> 
> These medals equate to the BJCP's *scoring guide* with Gold covering Outstanding (World-class example of style) and Excellent (Exemplifies style well, requires minor fine-tuning), Silver equates to Very Good (Generally within style parameters, some minor flaws). A bronze medal is awarded for those beers at the top end of the Good range (21 - 29 "Misses the mark on style and/or minor flaws"). This medal system is also similar to the awards at the Australian International Beer Awards for commercial breweries.
> 
> If your beer scored less that 25 you received a participation Certificate which is still something to brag about as 'you were there'.
> 
> Justin, I hope that this answers your query, but if you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.



So Dale, how many gold, silver & bronze awards were given in each category ? Heaps I assume.... just need to know whether two of the three certificate can rightfully be mounted in my trophy room (aka a big old box of crap buried in the spare bedroom)

It's a good thing HUB didn't organise prizes for placeholders, because I might have had second thoughts about relinquishing my erroneous #1. 




bigfridge said:


> Thanks but it doesn't help me at all as the entry fees were passed on long ago to the Treasurer and used to cover the comp expenses and thing like covering part of the judges out of pocket expenses like accomodation costs.



If that's your address on the envelope, then I would like to send you one of the killer IPA's I have re-brewed for the Nationals (that won't make the cut, as it turns out). I'll do this for the 'good effort' you have made (not to be confused with 'a job well done')

As you have kindly permitted me to ask questions, why isn't "Champion Brewer" recognised in the 2012 NSWABC ?


----------



## Jay Cee

AndrewQLD said:


> Just to clarify a point Jay Cee, you do not need to be BJCP certified to judge in a brewing competition, that is a qualification studied for and obtained by individuals for their own reasons and is not a requirement at any of the competitions that are held in Australia as far as I am aware. There are plenty of highly experienced judges out there that did not study for the BJCP exam and are just as good as those that have.
> 
> Andrew




Hi Andrew, I have no issue with this, except for Dave striking the non-certified judge from the tally in the past hour. 

The logic is all over the place.


----------



## petesbrew

bigfridge said:


> The actual wording of the covering letter was:
> 
> "We have enclosed a complete copy of the results together with your score sheets and a certificate. Each certificate shows if your beer placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd, together with a Gold, Silver or Bronze ranking. This allows you to see both how good your beer was, together with a comparison against the other brewers."
> 
> So the "1st, 2nd or 3rd" represents how you went against other beers.
> 
> "Gold, Silver or Bronze ranking" allows you to see both how good your beer was.
> 
> The actual vales are:
> 
> 38-50 Points: Gold
> 30-37 Points: Silver
> 25-29 Points: Bronze
> 
> These medals equate to the BJCP's *scoring guide* with Gold covering Outstanding (World-class example of style) and Excellent (Exemplifies style well, requires minor fine-tuning), Silver equates to Very Good (Generally within style parameters, some minor flaws). A bronze medal is awarded for those beers at the top end of the Good range (21 - 29 "Misses the mark on style and/or minor flaws"). This medal system is also similar to the awards at the Australian International Beer Awards for commercial breweries.
> 
> If your beer scored less that 25 you received a participation Certificate which is still something to brag about as 'you were there'.
> 
> Justin, I hope that this answers your query, but if you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.


Thanks for clarifying this.
I always wondered why an old 3rd place award I have has "silver medal" on it.


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> If that's your address on the envelope, then I would like to send you one of the killer IPA's I have re-brewed for the Nationals



No thanks - please keep your beer for a more appreciative audience.


----------



## bigfridge

Jay Cee said:


> It is my understanding that in other comps of recent times, there have been instances where non-certified, apprentice and even non-BJCP-studying stewards have been enlisted to act as part of the judging panel, due to a shortage of (judge) numbers. In these instances, they were under the tutelage of the experts, and their scores were passed as legitimate.
> 
> In the case of those judging category #13, the scoresheets indicate that of the three judges, TWO of them were non-certified (not singular, as your comment suggests). Barry was the only one qualified to do so. Therefore, I wonder how you recalculated, based on your statement above ? If you are going to strike off the non-qualified members of the flight, then Barry's is the only one to be considered, and multiplied by 2. Which works out OK in your amended sheet, but let's be clear about it that only one person that you deem to be recognised is actually recorded.



I really wish that you would read more carefully before you spin out of control.

I did not mention anything about certified judges - I explained that your additional score was from a trainee. The covering letter also explained what judges were used. BTW, the excluded judge only sat in for a few of the beers and there is very little time for 'tutelage'.

Could I please suggest that you address any further questions directly to the organising committe on the email addess contained in your results pack.

Over and out
David


----------



## waggastew

Just got my score sheets today. Thanks to all involved, some great feedback with some faults to work on. Time to go and do some research on reducing diacetyl........


----------



## warra48

Got my score sheet today as well. Some pointers as expected, but also some useful other ones and some encouraging ones as well, and the main criticism I expected is clearly not a fault in the style I entered. I'm happy with the outcome, but then, I'm not a glory seeker.

Worth the $7 I paid for my lonely entry. Would have been worth the $10, but I'm neither numerically challenged, nor generally under the influence of too much alcohol, so I didn't fall for that one.

For goodness sake, can we just draw a line under all of this, and get on with brewing beer?

Please, no more whinging. If you're not happy, don't enter next time, find a better hobby, or get your arsse down to the Hunter next time to straighten things out.
The people involved volunteered their time etc, so accept it all in good grace.

Mrs warra and I are planning to move to the Hunter region soon so, by this time next year, I hope to be able to offer some assistance.


----------



## leeboy

Got my feedback and it was spot on. Thankyou to all involved for the mammoth and in my opinion, accuracte results. Fantastic to have some good feedback to help point brewing to style in the right direction.


----------



## a_quintal

warra48 said:


> Got my score sheet today as well. Some pointers as expected, but also some useful other ones and some encouraging ones as well, and the main criticism I expected is clearly not a fault in the style I entered. I'm happy with the outcome, but then, I'm not a glory seeker.
> 
> Worth the $7 I paid for my lonely entry. Would have been worth the $10, but I'm neither numerically challenged, nor generally under the influence of too much alcohol, so I didn't fall for that one.
> 
> For goodness sake, can we just draw a line under all of this, and get on with brewing beer?
> 
> Please, no more whinging. If you're not happy, don't enter next time, find a better hobby, or get your arsse down to the Hunter next time to straighten things out.
> The people involved volunteered their time etc, so accept it all in good grace.
> 
> Mrs warra and I are planning to move to the Hunter region soon so, by this time next year, I hope to be able to offer some assistance.



Spot on


----------



## petesbrew

+1 for what Warra48 said.
Got my notes yesterday and the input the judges gave was fantastic (and legible  ).
Well detailed, constructive criticism = this is what these comps are all about.

You may enter beers that you feel are going to win, but for the feedback alone it's just as important to enter beers you're unsure about.


----------



## bigfridge

waggastew said:


> Just got my score sheets today. Thanks to all involved, some great feedback with some faults to work on. Time to go and do some research on reducing diacetyl........



I had intended to include a general judges summary in the covering letter - but forgot in all the rush ;-)

A common flaw observed by most judges was yeast health and oxidation - Diacetyl results from both. Yeast normally produce a pre-cursor of Diacetyl as an intermediate bi-product of fermentation but then re-absorb it as the sugar content of the wort is consumed. Stopping the yeast from doing their job by dropping the temperature or racking the beer too soon removes the yeast from suspension and hence stops any cleanup by the yeast. Oxidation during bottling converts the pre-cursor to Diacetyl which starts out as a faint honey character but then developes into Butterscotch and finally rancid butter - yum.

I judged half the APA's and Diacetyl was a common fault - these beers should be sparkling clean and the conventional yeasts (US05/1056/1272) are able to reduce far more than they produce. 

HTH,
Dave


----------



## Rob S

Jay Cee said:


> Congratulations. Are you the Rob S. that scored 7th in Category 8 ? If so, that means that we _*both*_ scored a silver certificate in the same category.



Yep, one and the same. Congrats on the silver medal. Feel free to send me one of your killer IPA's if bigfridge doesn't want it lol.




waggastew said:


> Just got my score sheets today. Thanks to all involved, some great feedback with some faults to work on. Time to go and do some research on reducing diacetyl........



Heard on the news this morning that too much diacetyl leads to Alzheimer's.


----------



## Jay Cee

Rob S said:


> Yep, one and the same. Congrats on the silver medal.



My certificates went out with last night's garbage, as should the notion of HUB ever hosting the state comp again.


----------



## Josh

bigfridge said:


> Thanks Mark, but the results are correct as printed.
> 
> You can see that there were 2 panels of 4 judges and each panel assigned scores to the beers that they judged. A Mini BOS was then held between the two panels of judges and they agreed on the relative merits of the top beers and assigned the placings.
> 
> Hence the actual score recorded is not absolutely related to the awarded place. It is not related to any brewer entering multiple beers in a category as the names of the brewers are never known on the competition floor.
> 
> HTH,
> Dave



Unfortunately, I don't think the above statment is totally accurate.



> Entry #|Style|Name|Score
> 26 9.5 American Brown Ale Peter Davis 67 1
> 306 9.2 Irish Red Ale Chris Trigg 78 2
> 203 9.2 Irish Red Ale Danny Hannan 73 3
> 313 9.2 Irish Red Ale Joe Valente 73 4
> 5 9.4 Australian Dark/Old Ale Rod Campbell 72 5
> 29 9.2 Irish Red Ale Alex Tucker 69 6
> 26 9.5 American Brown Ale Peter Davis 67 7



The "first placed" beer has the same entry number as the "seventh placed" beer. Peter Davis may have entered 2 beers, but the scores reflect only 1 as it is printed. Both of his beers as printed are entry number 26.


----------



## bigfridge

Josh said:


> The "first placed" beer has the same entry number as the "seventh placed" beer. Peter Davis may have entered 2 beers, but the scores reflect only 1 as it is printed. Both of his beers as printed are entry number 26.



Thanks Josh - you are totally correct.

But the problem is one of presentation rather than calculation. It looks like the result for Entry 26 was entered again after the mini-BOS and not picked up when resorted to give the winning beer. There were only 21 brown ales entered and not the 22 results shown.

Here is the deleted/resorted results.

View attachment NSW_State_Entries_2012_Final.pdf


----------



## mikk

A quick heads up to all the Sydney brewers that were lucky enough to get a 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in the recent NSW Amateur Brewing Comp.

I've just got off the phone with Colin at The Brew Shop at Peakhurst, & they've been kind enough to volunteer themselves as the Sydney collection
point for the upcoming AABC. This is fantastic news, as otherwise we'd have to post/courier the beers down, which obviously would lead to our 
beers turning up in potentially shitty condition.

Beers are to be dropped off AT THE ABSOLUTE LATEST by Monday morning 8th October, & preferably prior to this if possible. All beers are to be
dropped off 'ready to send', ie, packed securely in bubblewrap, in a cardboard box, labelled/addressed, with entry money/forms inside. 

All the boxes will be sent together on a skid or something, so won't end up upside-down & shaken up like they would be if couriered or posted.

A big thanks to Colin & all at The Brew Shop for doing this, it's much appreciated.


----------



## Bubba Q

mikk said:


> A quick heads up to all the Sydney brewers that were lucky enough to get a 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in the recent NSW Amateur Brewing Comp.
> 
> I've just got off the phone with Colin at The Brew Shop at Peakhurst, & they've been kind enough to volunteer themselves as the Sydney collection
> point for the upcoming AABC. This is fantastic news, as otherwise we'd have to post/courier the beers down, which obviously would lead to our
> beers turning up in potentially shitty condition.
> 
> Beers are to be dropped off AT THE ABSOLUTE LATEST by Monday morning 8th October, & preferably prior to this if possible. All beers are to be
> dropped off 'ready to send', ie, packed securely in bubblewrap, in a cardboard box, labelled/addressed, with entry money/forms inside.
> 
> All the boxes will be sent together on a skid or something, so won't end up upside-down & shaken up like they would be if couriered or posted.
> 
> A big thanks to Colin & all at The Brew Shop for doing this, it's much appreciated.



bugger, i sent mine down in an australia post wine pack with registered post. oh well, if it doesnt go to well then i will just shrug my shoulders and blame it on australia post


----------



## mikk

mikk said:


> A quick heads up to all the Sydney brewers that were lucky enough to get a 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in the recent NSW Amateur Brewing Comp.
> 
> I've just got off the phone with Colin at The Brew Shop at Peakhurst, & they've been kind enough to volunteer themselves as the Sydney collection
> point for the upcoming AABC. This is fantastic news, as otherwise we'd have to post/courier the beers down, which obviously would lead to our
> beers turning up in potentially shitty condition.
> 
> Beers are to be dropped off AT THE ABSOLUTE LATEST by Monday morning 8th October, & preferably prior to this if possible. All beers are to be
> dropped off 'ready to send', ie, packed securely in bubblewrap, in a cardboard box, labelled/addressed, with entry money/forms inside.
> 
> All the boxes will be sent together on a skid or something, so won't end up upside-down & shaken up like they would be if couriered or posted.
> 
> A big thanks to Colin & all at The Brew Shop for doing this, it's much appreciated.



bump for the weekend...


----------



## mikk

mikk said:


> A quick heads up to all the Sydney brewers that were lucky enough to get a 1st, 2nd or 3rd place in the recent NSW Amateur Brewing Comp.
> 
> I've just got off the phone with Colin at The Brew Shop at Peakhurst, & they've been kind enough to volunteer themselves as the Sydney collection
> point for the upcoming AABC. This is fantastic news, as otherwise we'd have to post/courier the beers down, which obviously would lead to our
> beers turning up in potentially shitty condition.
> 
> Beers are to be dropped off AT THE ABSOLUTE LATEST by Monday morning 8th October, & preferably prior to this if possible. All beers are to be
> dropped off 'ready to send', ie, packed securely in bubblewrap, in a cardboard box, labelled/addressed, with entry money/forms inside.
> 
> All the boxes will be sent together on a skid or something, so won't end up upside-down & shaken up like they would be if couriered or posted.
> 
> A big thanks to Colin & all at The Brew Shop for doing this, it's much appreciated.



Yep, it's another bump! 

But also, could the HUB guys please officially announce the overall champion for the comp? It wasn't included in released results. The ANHC are giving a free ticket to the champion brewer of each state, but won't do so until the HUB guys designate who that champion is. Sorry to bring the issue up on this thread, but my PM's & emails to various people over the last week or so haven't been responded to. (Assuming I've sent them to the right people in the first place!).

Thanks,
Mikk


----------



## Jay Cee

Not to mention the reissue of correct certificates *for those whose placing was fucked up due to incompetence. God only knows how many unclaimed errors lie within the results.


----------



## mikk

mikk said:


> But also, could the HUB guys please officially announce the overall champion for the comp? It wasn't included in released results. The ANHC are giving a free ticket to the champion brewer of each state, but won't do so until the HUB guys designate who that champion is. Sorry to bring the issue up on this thread, but my PM's & emails to various people over the last week or so haven't been responded to. (Assuming I've sent them to the right people in the first place!).
> 
> Thanks,
> Mikk



Umm, still unable to contact any H.U.B'ers, even through their own H.U.B website/forum. If anyone knows the whereabouts of one, please point them in this direction. 
Looks like NSW's ANHC freebie ticket is going to go to waste at this point. 
Sad. Very sad.


----------



## barls

once again, this has happened. lack of care on their behalf.

why do they keep getting the states?


----------



## bigfridge

mikk said:


> Umm, still unable to contact any H.U.B'ers, even through their own H.U.B website/forum. If anyone knows the whereabouts of one, please point them in this direction.
> Looks like NSW's ANHC freebie ticket is going to go to waste at this point.
> Sad. Very sad.



Hi All,

Just wandered past AHB and noticed this kerfuffle - thought that I could help.

If you would like to contact the HUB club you should try their website. Not many of the good folks visit AHB these days, and regardless AHB should not be considered any form of 'official' communication channel.

You should be able to contact the organisers using the information shown here or here.


----------



## bigfridge

barls said:


> once again, this has happened. lack of care on their behalf.
> 
> why do they keep getting the states?




Sorry, you will have to help me here.

What exactly has happened 'once again' ?


----------



## bigfridge

mikk said:


> But also, could the HUB guys please officially announce the overall champion for the comp? It wasn't included in released results. The ANHC are giving a free ticket to the champion brewer of each state, but won't do so until the HUB guys designate who that champion is. Sorry to bring the issue up on this thread, but my PM's & emails to various people over the last week or so haven't been responded to. (Assuming I've sent them to the right people in the first place!).
> 
> Thanks,
> Mikk



Wasn't this done months ago ?

From the published comp rules there is no 'most successfull brewer' award, but there is a Champion Beer of Show - so the brewer of this beer would be the Champion brewer. This means that Sam Haldine gets the ticket and the ANHC guys have been told this.

If there are any further questions can I please suggest that you contact the club via its website as very few of the club members, and none of the executive, visit AHB these days.


----------



## samhaldane

bigfridge said:


> From the published comp rules there is no 'most successfull brewer' award, but there is a Champion Beer of Show - so the brewer of this beer would be the Champion brewer. This means that Sam Haldine gets the ticket and the ANHC guys have been told this.



Woops, first I've heard of this, I've already bought my ticket!

If I can get a refund I'm happy to split the difference with you Mikk, how does that sound?


----------



## mikk

bigfridge said:


> Wasn't this done months ago ?


Should have been but wasn't. That's why i've been trying so hard to contact anyone from HUB to sort it out. Even Andy from the ANHC has been trying to contact any Hunter guys to sort this out, with no luck.



bigfridge said:


> From the published comp rules there is no 'most successfull brewer' award, but there is a Champion Beer of Show - so the brewer of this beer would be the Champion brewer.


At no time in the history of the state AABC qualifying competitions has the Best of Show winner simply been awarded the title of Champion Brewer. A quick look at the previous competition results on the AABC website will confirm this. If the Hunter United Brewers would like to declare the BOS winner the State Brewing Champion, that's within their rights, and why i've been desperately trying to contact anyone in the club to see who the NSW State Champion actually is.

To be honest, I assumed I was the State Champion, and would be extremely disappointed to find out that because HUB didn't 'officially' state this in the results that they've set a brand new precedent into how the Champion Brewer status is determined.



bigfridge said:


> This means that Sam Haldine gets the ticket and the ANHC guys have been told this.


The ANHC guys have NOT been told this. 


Sam, thanks very much for your generous offer, it's appreciated. From my point of view, if HUB determines that you are the State Champion then I think you should pocket the refund in it's entirety. If you're unable to get a refund then i'll happily take you up on your offer.
This is assuming that anyone from HUB is willing to make the determination prior to the ANHC, & assuming the ANHC is able to give a ticket to one of us in time for the event.

As for suggestions to contact the club via their website, i've done this to no avail. This whole 'kerfuffle' should have been sorted months ago, & is sad reflection on those involved that they've chosen not to sort things out, or even reply to various lines of enquiry before it came to this.

Brewing and drinking beer is one of the great pleasures of life, not just for me, but for us all. For me to have to even write a post like this on a BREWING website to try to get a resolution to a very simple matter is a disappointment to myself, & i feel pretty let down for the fact that it's come to this.


----------



## mikk

Pasted from the H.U.B website (just saw it now, it was posted today)-

Hi Michael,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. The club committee have been discussing the awarding of the Champion Brewer since you raised your query.
Without a clear Champion Brewer Award specified the decision was made to award the Champion Brewer to the entrant who won the Best Of Show, Sam Haldane.
The ANHC organiser have been informed and they will contact Sam.
Congratulations on your results - looks like your beers did extremely well in the competition.
Ben 


So, a final determination, finally. To say i'm disappointed with the decision to award the title of NSW State Brewing Champion this way is a massive understatement, given that this title has NEVER, EVER been awarded in this way before. 

On a happier note though, congratulations to Sam on your overall NSW championship win. By all accounts, a terrific beer & a great brewer. Hope your time at the ANHC is spent productively. 

Michael.


----------



## Benniee

mikk said:


> So, a final determination, finally. To say i'm disappointed with the decision to award the title of NSW State Brewing Champion this way is a massive understatement, given that this title has NEVER, EVER been awarded in this way before.



Hi Michael,

I'm sorry that you are disappointed with the club's decision. You beers certainly did very well across the categories you entered. 

Our decision wasn't an easy one, nor was it made lightly.

I have not had the success in competitions that you have had in this years, but for me the most valuable thing I get out of my competition entries is the score sheets and comments I get back. 

Hopefully one day I get a chance to sit down with you and share some great beer.

Benniee


----------



## samhaldane

In my opinion you _are_ the champion brewer Mikk. That's why I offered to share the ticket refund with you. Actually I should give you the whole lot, you deserve it.

In every comp I've entered or judged in, the champion brewer has been the brewer with the most points (1 for 3rd place, 2 for 2nd etc). I think it's weird that I would be champion brewer as well as best of show as normally they are two different awards.

I wonder what this means:



> Without a clear Champion Brewer Award specified



Where would / should it be specified HUBers?

Mikk, looking forward to having a beer with you next week at ANHC.


----------



## Malted

It would be rather tenuous to claim that Rules of the AABC 'D10' are not relevant to NSW, nor that it was possible to follow them. Seems to me that Michael's grievance is justified. 


http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/AABC_AimsRules...eb_20090319.pdf

C9. Rules for State Qualifiers. State/Territory Qualifying Championships shall, where 
possible, *follow the same *(relevant) *rules as the AABC*. 

D10. *Champion Brewer* and Champion State. *The sum of category placing points is to be 
used for deciding Champion Brewer* and Champion State. Category placing points are 3 
points for first place, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third place. If there is a tie for 
first place, then the sum of points normally available for first and second places (3 + 2 = 5 
points) will be split equally between the two winners (i.e. 2 points each), and the third 
placegetter will receive 1 point. If there is a tie for second place, then the points normally 
available for second and third places (2 + 1 = 3 points) will be split equally between the two 
second placegetters (i.e. 1 points each). If there is a tie (in the number of placing points) for 
Champion Brewer or Champion State then the sum of the placing points times the judging 
points will be used to decide the winners. For example, a win (3 placing points) for a beer 
receiving 130 judging points and a third place (1 placing point) for a beer receiving 110 
judging points would have a total of 500 points. If there is still a tie, then joint winners will be 
declared.


----------



## the_new_darren

I agree. What are these guys on?

Three points for first, two for second and one for third. The tally makes champion brewer.

Best of show is the beer with the highest score

Always has been

tnd


----------



## Barley Belly




----------



## np1962




----------



## the_new_darren

hmmm


----------



## bigfridge

the_new_darren said:


> hmmm



Thank you everone for your *opinion* - particularly those from outside NSW are greatly appreciated.

You can rant and rave all you like, but the simple fact is that each competition has its own set of rules and these rules are published in advance as part of the entry pack. If you don't like the rules then you have the option of discussing your concerns with the organising committee *before* entries close, or not entering at all.

It is totally unfair for all the entrants to 'change the rules after the comp' as this disadvantages those who read the rules and entered with them in mind. If it now was announced that all the entries would be counted towards an additional award of Champion Brewer people would be justifiably upset if they didn't enter as many categories as they could so that they would be in the running for this additional award.

Once again can I remind people that he best way to contact anyone from the club is to use the website - not AHB. And please remember that there are no fully trained operators waiting to take your call - there are only volunteers who need a day or two to catch up on the emails and discuss the issue before replying.

Over and out !


----------



## bigfridge

the_new_darren said:


> I agree. What are these guys on?
> 
> Three points for first, two for second and one for third. The tally makes champion brewer.
> 
> Best of show is the beer with the highest score
> 
> Always has been
> 
> tnd



Always ?

I don't know how many comps TND has entered, or even the old Darren for that matter - but I can probably go back 15 or so years and from my records rewarding the 'volume' of entries rather than the 'quality' is a fairly recent invention. 

I just looked up the result ssheet for the 2001 Bathurst comp and there was only a prise for the Champion Kit and Champion Mash Brewer - nothing about 3, 2 or 1.

Rules is rules and they can be changed after the event !


----------



## Malted

bigfridge said:


> Thank you everone for your *opinion* - particularly those from outside NSW are greatly appreciated.
> 
> You can rant and rave all you like, but the simple fact is that each competition has its own set of rules and these rules are published in advance as part of the entry pack. If you don't like the rules then you have the option of discussing your concerns with the organising committee *before* entries close, or not entering at all.
> 
> It is totally unfair for all the entrants to 'change the rules after the comp' as this disadvantages those who read the rules and entered with them in mind. If it now was announced that all the entries would be counted towards an additional award of Champion Brewer people would be justifiably upset if they didn't enter as many categories as they could so that they would be in the running for this additional award.
> 
> Once again can I remind people that he best way to contact anyone from the club is to use the website - not AHB. And please remember that there are no fully trained operators waiting to take your call - there are only volunteers who need a day or two to catch up on the emails and discuss the issue before replying.
> 
> Over and out !


We appreciate that you are appreciative of our opinions. Clearly we can see that which you can not.

You can rant and rave all you like, the fact is AABC rules were not followed, it is irrefutable. Did you follow AABC rule D10? C9 indicates it should have been followed. NSW are not 'above the law'. It was not advertised as the HUB NSW competition, it was advertised as the NSW ABC, that links it to AABC, perhaps some folks forgot that? 

It is totally unfair for the judges to 'change the rules after the comp' has started finished just because they didn't read the AABC rules. If it was now announced that an extra category of Champion Brewer was introduced, why people might think the competition conformed to national standards! 

Competition bombing happens; they still have to be good enough to get enough gongs; that's the idea of being a champion brewer! It's about the most number of gongs not the biggest gong (because that has it's own award). If you can win as many categories as you can, you must be good, we'll give you a champion brewer award because you're obviously so good at it and put so much time and effort into it. Reward for effort. 

Fact, no Champion Brewer category was listed in the NSW ABC rules.
Fact, a Champion Brewer Category was awarded.
Fact, it was not the entrants who issued that award.
Fact, it was not the entrants who changed the NSW ABC rules.
Fact, AABC rules are that state rules should follow the AABC rules. 

Is this not so?

I harbour no ill will towards you BigFridge. Please don't perpetrate excuses for mistakes, there is no valid justification for it. If I should stay out of it, then so should you. 

Edit: Events and rules change over time, that is par for the course. You have to work with what is current, particulalry if it is a subsiduary of a national competition that has defined rules.


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## yum beer

*AWARDS:​*​​​​The following awards will be given:​
​​​​*First *placing, and ribbons to *Second *and *Third *placing in each class.​
Up to two​​​​*Highly Commended *places may be awarded at the discretion of the​
judges.​​​​​*Champion Beer of show*, and *Runner-up*​*
*The brewers of the Champion beers will be sponsored to enter a beer of their​choice (could be in a different category or style) in the​​​​*American Homebrewers*​*
Associations National Homebrew Competition*.



Clearly never was an award for Champion brewer, though it does appear there should be 2 tickets for Champion Beer and runner-up.

Might I suggest a few people read the actual wording of the entry before bitching about non awarding of an award that was never on offer.

There WAS no award for Champion Brewer. Unlucky Mikk, probably would've cleaned up in most comps, but not this one.


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## Malted

yum beer said:


> *AWARDS:​*​​​​The following awards will be given:​​​​​*First *placing, and ribbons to *Second *and *Third *placing in each class.​Up to two​​​​*Highly Commended *places may be awarded at the discretion of the​judges.​​​​​*Champion Beer of show*, and *Runner-up*​The brewers of the Champion beers will be sponsored to enter a beer of their​choice (could be in a different category or style) in the​​​​*American Homebrewers*​*Association's National Homebrew Competition*.





Malted said:


> Fact, no Champion Brewer category was listed in the NSW ABC rules.
> Fact, a Champion Brewer Category was awarded.
> Fact, it was not the entrants who issued that award.
> Fact, it was not the entrants who changed the NSW ABC rules.
> Fact, AABC rules are that state rules should follow the AABC rules.
> 
> Is this not so?


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## dr K

Malted is 100% correct in his statement of AABC rules, but he forgets a minor point, D.10 refers specifically to the AABC.
It may be easy for a State to simply adopt this, but is not a requirement. In the ACT for example you need at least one ale and one lager, whilst we have a Champion Brewer, our premier award is in fact Beer of Show.
Anyway, can't wait for the National's results and all the whinging and nit-picking post.
Beer is made from grain, not grape.

K


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## manticle

dr K said:


> Anyway, can't wait for the National's results and all the whinging and nit-picking post.
> Beer is made from grain, not grape.



Would have worked better if you had said whining.


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## dr K

manticle said:


> Would have worked better if you had said whining.



I agree !!!

K


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## Malted

dr K said:


> Malted is 100% correct in his statement of AABC rules, but he forgets a minor point, D.10 refers specifically to the AABC.


So what is your point?

I thought that was clear that D10 is specifically AABC. 
C9 is not a minor point.


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## Malted

yum beer said:


> Clearly never was an award for Champion brewer, though it does appear there should be 2 tickets for Champion Beer and runner-up.
> 
> Might I suggest a few people read the actual wording of the entry before bitching about non awarding of an award that was never on offer.
> 
> There WAS no award for Champion Brewer. Unlucky Mikk, probably would've cleaned up in most comps, but not this one.





mikk said:


> Pasted from the H.U.B website (just saw it now, it was posted today)-
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. The club committee have been discussing the awarding of the Champion Brewer since you raised your query.
> Without a clear Champion Brewer Award specified the decision was made to award the Champion Brewer to the entrant who won the Best Of Show, Sam Haldane.
> The ANHC organiser have been informed and they will contact Sam.
> Congratulations on your results - looks like your beers did extremely well in the competition.
> Ben
> 
> 
> So, a final determination, finally...



:huh:


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## Malted

dr K said:


> It may be easy for a State to simply adopt this, but is not a requirement.



I 100% agree. So they did not have to award a Champion Brewer; so why did they backflip and do so? Pressure from a particular brewer perhaps? We can all see that this happened. It is how they chose to award it that is in question. In the abscence of their own rules they appear to have ignored the clear AABC rules for how it should be awarded.

Why are you folks all denying the truth?


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## bum

Malted said:


> Why are you folks all denying the truth?


All shared a beer together, perhaps.

That'll change a bloke.


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## manticle

Too fuckin' right.

I used to be a woman.


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## dr K

Malted said:


> So what is your point?
> 
> I thought that was clear that D10 is specifically AABC.
> C9 is not a minor point.



Not from your previous post. You plucked two paragraphs and co-joined to support your opinion.



> C9. Rules for State Qualifiers. State/Territory Qualifying Championships shall, where
> possible, follow the same (relevant) rules as the AABC.


You are, of course, again perfectly correct, C9 is not a minor point (not that I said it was), C9 clearly states "where possible" and "relevant". As you point out D10 is specifically AABC....
So..whats the problem?

K
(ps glad I am not the only woman/manwo !)


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## goomboogo

manticle said:


> Too fuckin' right.
> 
> I used to be a woman.


I still am.


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## Malted

dr K said:


> Not from your previous post. You plucked two paragraphs and co-joined to support your opinion.
> 
> 
> You are, of course, again perfectly correct, C9 is not a minor point (not that I said it was), C9 clearly states "where possible" and "relevant". As you point out D10 is specifically AABC....
> So..whats the problem?
> 
> K
> (ps glad I am not the only woman/manwo !)



One says these are the national rules, the other says state comps should follow national rules. Ergo, the state comp should have followed D10. Simple really.

How was it not possible or relevant to follow national rules? Relevence one might contend, is the issue since they did not list Champion Brewer as an award category, therefore it was not relevant. OK. But then they did award it, so it became relevant. Perhaps it was not possible becasue they couldn't count?

The problem is, an award that was not listed was awarded in a manner defying sense. The way in which it was awarded did not have a methodology defined by NSW ABC. It did have a methodology defined by AABC. NSW ABC as part of the national comp should have followed the AABC rules when they chose to award the non listed award that they were not obliged to award, they did not use the AABC methodology.


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## bigfridge

Malted said:


> The problem is, an award that was not listed was awarded in a manner defying sense. The way in which it was awarded did not have a methodology defined by NSW ABC. It did have a methodology defined by AABC. NSW ABC as part of the national comp should have followed the AABC rules when they chose to award the non listed award that they were not obliged to award, they did not use the AABC methodology.



Why is there any problem at all ?

The organisers of the comp grabbed paperwork used in previous years and ran the best comp that they could. Months after the comp the ANHC (a commercial organisation seperate from the AABC) asked the NSW committee to nominate the 'Champion Brewer' as there was no mention of that exact title in the published results. The answer was given that there is only 1 Champion awarded in NSW and so you can give the ticket to the BOS winner.

Understandably some people will be disapointed with this decision but as a volunteer service organisation we can only try to do the best for the majority of entrants.

This is why we place an emphasis on judge training to give the best possible feedback and conduct a BOS taste-off to ensure that all category winners are fairly evaluated (rather than the winner being selected from the judging panel that awarded the highest score). The BOS panel was made up of 3 professional brewers - 2 of which were BJCP qualified and the 3rd conducts taste training for the country's largest brewer. 

Thanks to the generous sponsorship of Mark's Home Brew and our local breweries, the Champion Brewer prize was worth nearly $1,000. 

What I do think is a major problem is how many here are quick to belittle and criticise the honest efforts of volunteers. This is making AHB a very toxic place to visit, and can only hasten AHB's slide into irrelevance for all passionate brewers.

Something that Dane and his advertisers should be very concerned about.


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## the_new_darren

Take home message...It was a balls-up.

The president of HUB isn't a woman by any chance?

tnd


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## mikk

The Hunter United Brewers hand was eventually forced by the ANHC's offer of a free ticket for each state's champion brewer. In this, H.U.B were free to nominate anyone as they saw fit to receive this free ticket. HUB nominated the person who had the best beer of show. 
If this is what they decided, then I consider the matter regarding the ANHC ticket closed. 

However, the matter of 'official' recognition of who is the 2012 NSW Amateur Brewing Champion is, for me, incomplete.
HUB's decision to award this to the Best of Show winner is completely without precedent, contrary to the AABC rules, & completely contrary to HUB's own actions last year in determining the state champion. I fail to see how the same organisers, running the same competion, in consecutive years, can come to a conclusion over who the state champion is from 2 completely opposite points of view.

As such, I'll be asking the hunter United Brewers to review their decision with regards to this, & update the official NSW results on the AABC website once the matter is finalised.

Finally, thanks to all those who have contacted me to voice their support over what everyone seems to agree on as a baffling decision to have been made by the competition organisers.


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## yum beer

mikk said:


> However, the matter of 'official' recognition of who is the 2012 NSW Amateur Brewing Champion is, for me, incomplete.



Once again Mikk, there was no mention in the comp rules or entry info that stated there would be a NSW Amatuer Brewing Champion decided at this event.
There was to be a Champion Brewer and that was awarded to the brewer of BOS.

Mate, seriously if you are that desperate to be given the title, go down to the local trophy place and have them make you one.
No body said anyone was going to get such a title.


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## warra48

Geez, can we please lock this thread, just move on, get a life, and get back to brewing?


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## beerbog

warra48 said:


> Geez, can we please lock this thread, just move on, get a life, and get back to brewing?



100% agree. Great comp. Winners announced. Move on. :icon_cheers:


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## beachy

the_new_darren said:


> Take home message...It was a balls-up.
> 
> tnd



That pretty much says it all Darren.

I am amazed at the total lack of respect shown to Mikk and Haldini by the comp organisers. They have both been put in a very difficult and uncomfortable position.

I am surprised that the NSW AABC delegate/s have not stood up and sorted this out for Mikk.

Above all after reading this thread I am incredibly grateful for the amazing job that the volunteers that run SABSOSA do year after year.


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## np1962

beachy said:


> Above all after reading this thread I am incredibly grateful for the amazing job that the volunteers that run SABSOSA do year after year.


Here Here.


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