# Vanilla Beans



## dicko (20/10/07)

Hi all,

I want to add some vanilla flavour to a soon to be brewed Creme Ale.
I have looked at some recipes of people using vanilla beans and I have noted that the beans have been added to the boil at 15 mins to go, right through to adding them to the secondary.
What is the common concensus on this addition?
How many beans do you think I should use for a 51 litre batch?
Do you slice the beans and add the bits or just throw 'em in whole?
Any thoughts appreciated! 

Cheers


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## Duff (20/10/07)

Hi Dicko,

Whole vanilla beans can be a but pricey for a brew, so I have used vanilla extract a few times in some beers.

Extract or whole, I wouldn't toss them in the boil. I've only ever used extract in secondary. If using beans, I would rack onto them after primary.

Cheers.


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## Tyred (20/10/07)

I would cut the beans lengthwise. I haven't tried it but I think about 2 is enough for 20L of mead. It would depend on the strength of vanilla flavour that you would want for it.

You might be able to get whole vanilla beans cheaper on evil-bay. A few mead makers I've talked to say that they're fresher from there than buying in the shops and cheaper as well.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (20/10/07)

I've used vanilla in a mead, adding beans at power-out and leaving them there until I racked to secondary. They did not seem to add as much as I was expecting - perhaps that was me.

I have done some reading recently because I am thinking of using them in a porter currently fermenting. There is a school of thought that says if you're not boiling them, you need to extract the goodness with alcohol of some sort. I can't say and will have a better knowledge in a couple of months (which is no good for you) but perhaps someone knows if this is BS or not?


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## Trent (20/10/07)

Dicko
I have a mate that is a chef, adn he says ya really need heat of some sort to get the beans to release the flavours. I recently did this with a 23L batch of porter, I put 1.5 beans (split them and scrape them - the tacky black tar in the middle is actually where the flavour/aroma comes from, they are TINY black seeds, the bean itself is just a pod) in a pan with about 150mL of water, and brought it to a boil, simmered for 5 mins, then added that the a fermenter, and racked ontop of them.
The vanilla flavour is perceptible, but hard to really pinpoint as "vanilla", just adds a certain "something" that you recognise, but cant pick, which, IMO, is the hallmark of good spicing. However, in 51L of cream ale, I would go for at least 4 whole beans, maybe even 6 if you want it to be stronger in vanilla.
I bought my packet from Coles, IIRC, and it is MasterFoods vanilla beans (7g). It cost $9.90 or something like that, and there were 4 or 5 whole beans in there. If I were in your shoes, I would spend the $10 as an experiment, cause over the course of each bottle/glass, it will really be very little price, and it will be adding the effect that you are after. I, personally, will next time go for 2, or 2.5 beans, but as a starting point, I am very happy I went with less, rather than more. I would say take a sample after a week, and if it doesnt have enough vanilla character, then just add another bean or 2.
All the best, and hope that helps a little
Trent
EDIT - As Duff mentioned, they can be a bit pricey for a brew, but generally I am fairly happy to spend whatever to get the beer I envisage (anyone know how to buy brewing talent? :lol My mate also mentioned that if you can get them at a catering type place, that sells foods to restaurants, the beans will generally be fresher. I think you will find that the older the beans get, the more brittle they are, and the fresher, the more bendy, and black/tarry. If you buy them from a restaurant supply place, they will work out cheaper per bean, but you may need to buy 20 at a time or something like that. Please let us know how it turns out, and if it was great, how you did it. Actually, if it turns out amazing, just PM me, so I can get an advantage in the next brew comp :lol:. Just kidding, BTW.
T.


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## Screwtop (20/10/07)

dicko said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I want to add some vanilla flavour to a soon to be brewed Creme Ale.
> I have looked at some recipes of people using vanilla beans and I have noted that the beans have been added to the boil at 15 mins to go, right through to adding them to the secondary.
> ...



Will you be bottling or keging?


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## dicko (20/10/07)

Trent said:


> Dicko
> I have a mate that is a chef, adn he says ya really need heat of some sort to get the beans to release the flavours. I recently did this with a 23L batch of porter, I put 1.5 beans (split them and scrape them - the tacky black tar in the middle is actually where the flavour/aroma comes from, they are TINY black seeds, the bean itself is just a pod) in a pan with about 150mL of water, and brought it to a boil, simmered for 5 mins, then added that the a fermenter, and racked ontop of them.
> The vanilla flavour is perceptible, but hard to really pinpoint as "vanilla", just adds a certain "something" that you recognise, but cant pick, which, IMO, is the hallmark of good spicing. However, in 51L of cream ale, I would go for at least 4 whole beans, maybe even 6 if you want it to be stronger in vanilla.
> I bought my packet from Coles, IIRC, and it is MasterFoods vanilla beans (7g). It cost $9.90 or something like that, and there were 4 or 5 whole beans in there. If I were in your shoes, I would spend the $10 as an experiment, cause over the course of each bottle/glass, it will really be very little price, and it will be adding the effect that you are after. I, personally, will next time go for 2, or 2.5 beans, but as a starting point, I am very happy I went with less, rather than more. I would say take a sample after a week, and if it doesnt have enough vanilla character, then just add another bean or 2.
> ...



Thanks Trent for a very informative reply and thanks to all the others for your input.
My thought was to add the beans well toward the end of the boil and I was going to cut them into pieces lengthways as Tyred suggested.
My idea was say 5 beans for a 51 litre batch to see how it goes. I was intending to bitter it with Northern brewer with a big dose of Tettnang for aroma at the end. IBU's on a beer of about 1040 would be about 15.
I will be kegging the beer Screwtop but I am always a bit reluctant to add anything to the keg if that is what you may be suggesting. B) 

The Creme Ale was my first thought but a real chocolate porter with some vanilla conjurs up a taste fantasy as well.  
My wife has bought the beans today from the supermarket in a sealed bag. I didn't ask how much and she has made no comment so I will let "sleeping dogs lie" in case it then becomes an issue.

Cheers and I'll post how it goes after the brew.


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## KHB (20/10/07)

dicko said:


> Thanks Trent for a very informative reply and thanks to all the others for your input.
> My thought was to add the beans well toward the end of the boil and I was going to cut them into pieces lengthways as Tyred suggested.
> My idea was say 5 beans for a 51 litre batch to see how it goes. I was intending to bitter it with Northern brewer with a big dose of Tettnang for aroma at the end. IBU's on a beer of about 1040 would be about 15.
> I will be kegging the beer Screwtop but I am always a bit reluctant to add anything to the keg if that is what you may be suggesting. B)
> ...




I agree with trent im a chef and we always slic eour vanilla bean in half and scrape and use heat to get flavours out. hop it goes well


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## Screwtop (21/10/07)

Dicko, was advised by Ross to add any flavouring to the keg after carbonation, but I knew more and added to secondary (coffee) that was three months ago and the beer is just drinkable now. The coffee (4 shots) tasted ok after I added it but became way too much by the time the beer was kegged, chilled, and carbonated. Added one shot at a time to secondary adding to taste, but when carb'd it was totally different, maybe carbolic acid enhances the flavour. Took Ross' advice and added vanilla extract to the keg a little at a time, which balanced out the coffee to some extent. Took the keg off tap and have been testing every week or so, am going to put it back on tap mid Nov it really is developing into something very nice (coffee, vanilla, bourbon Porter). Adding to the keg once carb'd is the way to go. Purge the gas, open up and put a little (LITTLE) in, close the keg and give a little squirt of gas, just enough to move the beer and taste, continue until it is right. Nothing stopping you from warming up the vanilla bean pulp in a pan on the stove to release the aroma then adding a little water to make a liquid to add to the keg a little at a time. Think I might try that next.

Screwy

Etid: seepling


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## fixa (21/10/07)

I'm sure i read somewhere to never add vanilla to primary as the fermentation will throw all the vanilla flavours out. Better off putting it in secondary or keg in my experience...l


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## Ross (21/10/07)

As Screwtop found, I much prefer adding flavourings such as vanilla, coffee, hop extracts etc, straight to keg. 
I usually add a measured quantity to a glass & taste till I get the balance I want, before scaling up for the keg addition, as once added you cant remove. I've tasted different brews where the same quantity of fresh vanilla bean was added to the fermenter & the resulting beers varied from almost undetectable to very strong. Bottlers have it tougher, but the kegger doesn't have to take a gamble...

Cheers Ross


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## Trent (21/10/07)

Screwtop said:


> Nothing stopping you from warming up the vanilla bean pulp in a pan on the stove to release the aroma then adding a little water to make a liquid to add to the keg a little at a time.



Screwtop/Dicko
I just split my bean in half lengthways, and scraped the pulp out, and put it ALL in the pan, pod and all. Maybe that was not the right way to do it, KHB could probably tell me if it is not, but watching my mate make vanilla creme brulee's at his restaurant, he always put all the bits of bean in, and just pulled out the "pod pieces" just before pouring the mixture into remakins. Just using hte pulp may work, but I would put it all in.
All the best
Trent
EDIT - forgot to write I put the pod into the water too


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## tangent (21/10/07)

Gaganis Brothers are a bit cheaper for vanilla pods Dicko.
I keep a whole pod in a jar of sugar. It seeps into the sugar over time, so I just keep replacing the sugar and not the bean.


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## domonsura (21/10/07)

You're right Trent & KHB (not that you need to be told that KHB). Split the bean, scrape the seeds out, and add it all. Apply some heat ( I wouldn't say a boil, because that can extract bitterness from the bean case), strain and add the liquid to whatever you are flavouring. (I'm a chef by trade as well, but after a decade at it I got sick of it. - wonder how many of us are on this board? Seems chefs are attracted to both alcohol and brewing for some strange reason.... :huh: wonder why..... :lol: )

I buy my Vanilla pods from gaganis as well, they always seem to be fresh, and the price has always been better than anywhere else I've managed to find them.


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## dicko (21/10/07)

tangent said:


> Gaganis Brothers are a bit cheaper for vanilla pods Dicko.
> I keep a whole pod in a jar of sugar. It seeps into the sugar over time, so I just keep replacing the sugar and not the bean.



Well, Gaganis it is then for next time.
I just questioned my wife and she said the packet of three large beans in the supermarket cost $9.00 ( I have woken the sleeping dog) :lol: 

Thanks to all you guys for the input, as with any topic in brewing there is always many methods and views.  

Cheers


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## Wasabi (22/10/07)

In our Vanilla Porter, we use Vanilla Essence, for three reasons.

1. The oils from the vanilla bean can really screw up your head retention, and you can potentially get a layering due to different densities.

2. Essence, if you bulk buy, is cheaper

3. As we add to the fermenter after fermentation has slowed (the vanilla is very volatile and we don't like the CO2 driving it off), then Vanilla Essence is pretty safe with its high sugar content, but beans could have anything growing on them.


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## Ross (22/10/07)

Wasabi said:


> In our Vanilla Porter, we use Vanilla Essence, for three reasons.
> 
> 1. The oils from the vanilla bean can really screw up your head retention, and you can potentially get a layering due to different densities.
> 
> ...



Wouldn't extract work just as well? Certainly never had a head retention problem in the half dozen brews I've done with it. 
I've never been a lover of essences, but I guess if you've found a nice one, it's a lot cheaper  

cheers Ross


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## Wasabi (22/10/07)

Ross said:


> Wouldn't extract work just as well? Certainly never had a head retention problem in the half dozen brews I've done with it.
> I've never been a lover of essences, but I guess if you've found a nice one, it's a lot cheaper
> 
> cheers Ross



I think extract would work even better, just because it tastes that extra bit nicer. But a 1.5 litres of extract would push the cost price up somewhat. We do want to try one with extract though. 

What sort of beers have you primarily used the Vanilla Bean in?


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## amita (22/10/07)

Duff said:


> Hi Dicko,
> 
> Whole vanilla beans can be a but pricey for a brew, so I have used vanilla extract a few times in some beers.
> 
> ...



If there is a mate who goes to Ubud/Bali he/she can bring back a kilo of fresh vanilla beans for 10 bucks and make many mates happy!
no problem at customs, just show and walk through.

cheers amita


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## amita (22/10/07)

Ross said:


> As Screwtop found, I much prefer adding flavourings such as vanilla, coffee, hop extracts etc, straight to keg.
> I usually add a measured quantity to a glass & taste till I get the balance I want, before scaling up for the keg addition, as once added you cant remove. I've tasted different brews where the same quantity of fresh vanilla bean was added to the fermenter & the resulting beers varied from almost undetectable to very strong. Bottlers have it tougher, but the kegger doesn't have to take a gamble...
> 
> Cheers Ross



im a bottler and I add my vanilla,coffee into the fermenter a day before bottling, as mentioned earlier the tar only in a cup of water heated/steep at 75 for 5 minutes and add it to fermenter, BTW my partner used tp be a chef and I use her knowledge too when it comes to flavouring.  
cheers amita


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## Ross (22/10/07)

Wasabi said:


> I think extract would work even better, just because it tastes that extra bit nicer. But a 1.5 litres of extract would push the cost price up somewhat. We do want to try one with extract though.
> 
> What sort of beers have you primarily used the Vanilla Bean in?



Just in Porters so far, similar to yourself  

cheers Ross


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## ledgenko (26/1/12)

I must be blessed as my last LHBS provided me with vanilla beans at $1 each .. needless to say I have 50 beans now ... They are 12 months old but have the most beautiful amount of sugar forming on top of them.... I want to do a RIS ... 23 lt ... big vanilla aroma and taste .. should I go big time here Ross ???


Matt


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## Dazza88 (26/1/12)

I would experiment on a smaller scale first.


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## brettprevans (26/1/12)

In our vanilla imp stout we had 12 in 100L I think. Thats a mix of boil and secondary. Its in our collaboration brew day thread

Link is in my signature


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## Dazza88 (26/1/12)

Has anyone mentioned soaking the beans in whiskey for a week or two. That's what i have done before, it works well though my vanilla bourbon choc porter had a distinct bourbon and coke beer character (which i liked). My sister, who doesn't drink beer, quite enjoyed it.

IIRC - one bean in 50 to 100ml of bourbon for 10L of beer


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## mmmyummybeer (1/2/12)

I brought some beans of ebay some time ago, They were sold by weight but worked out to be around 50cents a bean. They were by far the freshest beans I'd ever brought. I divided them up and vacuum sealed them into smaller lots. Being vacuum sealed they stay fresh for a very long time, and are also always on hand.

They are bitter on there own. Do you normally have to account for this extra bitterness in the beer, or is it negligible and not worth worrying about?


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## fawnroux (1/2/12)

mmmyummybeer said:


> They are bitter on there own. Do you normally have to account for this extra bitterness in the beer, or is it negligible and not worth worrying about?



Not worth worrying about.


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