# Australian malt European standards



## Jkpentreath (16/5/14)

Just hoping this will start a snow ball. question; Everyone in brewing and home brew talks about the better results they get out of brewing with European malts. I bleed green and gold . Why can't one of the australian malsters build a higher quality base malt they have a good amount of dollars to move between say jw ale malt and what u pay for English malt. So.............. What u think.


----------



## peas_and_corn (16/5/14)

First I think you need to see a doctor about that blood problem, it seems pretty bad.

Secondly, what constitutes "good" isn't fixed, it's determined by what you want to get out of it. Australian base malts are the way they are because they suit the specifications the big breweries want for their beers. As a result if you want (for example) to make a Czech pilsener the malt won't *quite* produce a spot on example of the style. It doesn't make the malt bad per se, just different.

It's the same with some of your English style malts- Australian breweries won't pay the higher costs of the darker and more complex base malts (they would use melanoidin malt instead). This doesn't make either malt inferior, they are made for purpose and do those jobs well.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (16/5/14)

JW & BB are excelent base malts. They convert very well and produce great beers.

You also have to take into account the Barley varieties we grow here. 

Farmers are only really interested in growing barley that will give them the best price. And that price is dictated by what the breweries buy from the maltsters. 

The big maltsters are not going to do a special run of a few pallets just for home brewers.


----------



## peas_and_corn (16/5/14)

If we did a bulk buy of 10,000 tonnes they'll go by our custom specs


----------



## Not For Horses (16/5/14)

There are people who are working on this situation...


----------



## JDW81 (16/5/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You also have to take into account the Barley varieties we grow here.


It is also worth remembering the growing conditions in Australia are vastly different from those on the continent and in the UK. If you think how much difference these differing conditions make to things like wine grapes it stands to reason that there will be a difference in any other product which is grown here (I will concede some of this difference will be lost in the malting process).

I agree with the sentiment above that BB and JW make excellent malts, and they serve their purpose exceedingly well. I use JW maris otter as a base in many of my beers and am always exceedingly happy with the results I get.

I'd argue the skill of the brewer will influence the overall quality/drinkability of the beer more so than the origin of the ingredients.

JD


----------



## Jkpentreath (16/5/14)

I think would be more than a couple of pellets.it would be a couple of pellets per micro and home brew shop ? Surely we don't have to import a heap of barley that we have the means and commodity here to produce, sound a lot like the car industry actually!


----------



## gap (16/5/14)

Australia produces around 2.5 million tonnes of malting barley per annum.

How much of this would be used by Micro's or Homebrewers??

Bugger all I would guess.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (16/5/14)

You also have to remember that not all malt grown is malting quality. A lot of malt also goes into food products as well, biscuits, breakfast cereals etc. And then there is the export market. 

Take all this into account and the big guys arent intereste in relativly small runs of spec malts.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (16/5/14)

gap said:


> Australia produces around 2.5 million tonnes of malting barley per annum.
> 
> How much of this would be used by Micro's or Homebrewers??
> 
> Bugger all I would guess.


Exactly.


----------



## Bribie G (16/5/14)

When Oakey Maltings were still going I obtained 40 kilos of malt that was destined for Nestle's Milo factory (in Gympie I believe, they actually mash). It made reasonable beer as it happened, and at a dollar a kilo I didn't complain. However as Stu says there's a lot of grain produced, only a proportion of it ends up in beer.

Joe White Maris Otter? Where do you buy that? I was only thinking the other day "I wonder if Maris Otter barley would grow in Australia".

Pray tell me more.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (16/5/14)

I dont think it will be ever grown out here

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maris_Otter


----------



## Trevandjo (16/5/14)

There was a story on landline a few weeks back about Aussie barley production. It had a scientist from Carlsberg who was really exited that Australia have now developed a strain of barley which allows for beer to stay 'fresh' for almost twice as long.


----------



## Jkpentreath (16/5/14)

It would be possible to grow here. To get the maltesters to come clean about what they want in a good brewing barley. They seam happy to just let everyone send the grain in to food grade then pick from that? The grade is based on size screaming then protein percentage, which doesn't sound right for beer production? Any ideas? It seams like it is a totality different fertiliser application to what most farmers r doing now as they r applying urea later to finish strong but rising nitrogen in the grain. To make Maris otter it would be a case of farmers buying the plant rights, $$$$$$$$$!but with out much extra $ at the end? Don't get me started on the farming game F*^%#+{=!


----------



## Not For Horses (16/5/14)

Do you really think that a scientist from Carlsberg gives 2 shits about flavour?


----------



## Not For Horses (16/5/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I dont think it will be ever grown out here
> 
> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maris_Otter


It has been grown here.
Not sure whether Robin Appel knows about it or not but it has been grown here.
Not on a serious commercial scale though due to the PBRs.


----------



## JDW81 (16/5/14)

Bribie G said:


> Joe White Maris Otter? Where do you buy that?


Sorry Bribie I've led you up the garden path. I was mistaken in my purchasing practices, mainly due to my sporadic brewing of late. You JW MO doesn't exist. 

JD


----------



## NewtownClown (16/5/14)

Trevandjo said:


> There was a story on landline a few weeks back about Aussie barley production. It had a scientist from Carlsberg who was really exited that Australia have now developed a strain of barley which allows for beer to stay 'fresh' for almost twice as long.


Carlsberg _developed_ the strain here, it is a propitiatory strain _owned_ by Carlesberg.

As for "quality", Australia produces around 2.5 million tonnes of malting barley per year, 1.5 million tonnes (60%) of which are for the export market, Australia is responsible for more than 30% of the global trade of malting barley (20% for feed barley). Would we sell so much if the quality was low?


----------



## Not For Horses (16/5/14)

Depends on what you mean by 'quality'. If you mean extract potential and shelf life then sure, we've got quality. We've got lumps of round the back.

The majority of focus seems to be on asian markets at the moment. These markets actually prefer LOWER flavour because it suits their beers.
So what do you reckon the scientists are working on?


----------



## elcarter (16/5/14)

Red an article a while back that said Aus is exporting to to Sapporo Breweries in Japan. Think I read someone saying the malt was tailored for that particular market.

I'd say there's a good chance farmers / scientist are certainly working towards more of this.


----------



## Bribie G (16/5/14)

One reason our malts have such high diastatic power compared to, for example, UK Ale Malts.
They can convert a shedload of rice.


----------



## Jkpentreath (17/5/14)

I guess that's what the big buyers want. I would pay the difference to buy it from australia


----------



## stueywhytcross (17/5/14)

Hi all, interesting discussion.
My family have been malt barley producers for the past 75 years. Last season we had some schooner variety malt(which many farmers have abandoned due to to better yielding varieties such as gairdner, buloke, flagship and commander) recent talks with maltsters have led me to believe that they are now discovering that some of the other malts don't have the same level of diastatic power as schooner.
Cut a long story short I've taken 5tonne of our own grown 2013 schooner barley to be malted to 7ebc. It's without a doubt the best barley to come of our Property. Not due to be malted until later this month, so a little unsure of how it will actually perform. Almost all of it is already presold to a selection of smaller craft breweries.
Depending on the feedback I may aim to open up presale orders for next year of base malts in different variety and specs.
Of this current batch of 2013 schooner malt I will have a few spare 25kg bags not yet allocated. Pm me if your interested in giving it a crack.


----------



## Not For Horses (17/5/14)

Nice work! Good to see local ingredients going to local producers. Exactly what I'm working towards down here.
Where are you getting that malted?


----------



## stueywhytcross (17/5/14)

Powells, but exploring the possibility of setting up a small floor malting facility on farm.
Where are you based?


----------



## Jkpentreath (17/5/14)

Schooner, sounds cracking. Did they quote u what it would cost for malting?


----------



## Not For Horses (17/5/14)

I'm in Launceston. Not quite up and running yet but very close.
I'd love to have a chat about farm based malting some time though.


----------



## manticle (17/5/14)

disco stu said:


> Depending on the feedback I may aim to open up presale orders for next year of base malts in different variety and specs.
> Of this current batch of 2013 schooner malt I will have a few spare 25kg bags not yet allocated. Pm me if your interested in giving it a crack.


Definitely interested - will it be something we can organise to get transported to Vic (postage/delivery paid for by me)?

I'm sure there would be a couple of Vic brewers that would be happy to split a bag and do a batch or so each.


----------



## Jkpentreath (17/5/14)

Yep if it can get to Echuca I'm in.


----------



## Mardoo (17/5/14)

I'm in for a split. Happy to get a bag and split. PM sent.


----------



## elcarter (17/5/14)

I'm happy to be an Adelaide Proxy if enough south lads and grain is avalible - no profit just a service


----------

