# Nelson Sauvin



## jbowers (12/7/10)

Really enjoying NS at the moment - the new coopers vintage 2010, knappstein etc.

Next brew will be a west coast IPA, 1.060 SG probably add a little crystal, about 80 IBU. I'm going to use Chinook for bittering, and Citra and Chinook as late additions. Was thinking of throwing some Sauvin in to the mix? Will it simply get lost with those aggressive american hops? Basically wondering if anyone has used NS in an american style highly hopped beer like an IPA etc. and what the results were?

Cheers,
James


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## roger mellie (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Really enjoying NS at the moment - the new coopers vintage 2010, knappstein etc.
> 
> Next brew will be a west coast IPA, 1.060 SG probably add a little crystal, about 80 IBU. I'm going to use Chinook for bittering, and Citra and Chinook as late additions. Was thinking of throwing some Sauvin in to the mix? Will it simply get lost with those aggressive american hops? Basically wondering if anyone has used NS in an american style highly hopped beer like an IPA etc. and what the results were?
> 
> ...



I had a Knappstein yesterday - if the latest batch is anything to go by - the current crop of NS is way more grapefruity than previous. Almost a sour grapefruit bite. Nice - just not as winey/passionfruit - more like chinook.

So my 2c would be to not use any Chinook and load up with late NS.

RM


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## Shed101 (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Really enjoying NS at the moment - the new coopers vintage 2010, knappstein etc.
> 
> Next brew will be a west coast IPA, 1.060 SG probably add a little crystal, about 80 IBU. I'm going to use Chinook for bittering, and Citra and Chinook as late additions. Was thinking of throwing some Sauvin in to the mix? Will it simply get lost with those aggressive american hops? Basically wondering if anyone has used NS in an american style highly hopped beer like an IPA etc. and what the results were?
> 
> ...



Haven't tried it meself, and I may be wrong ... well i probably am, but would Hargreaves Hill ESB fit into this box? Maybe not quite the IBU, but certainly Nelson / Galaxy action.

And by jiminy it's a bloomin' good drop!


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

To my taste Hargreaves is just Galaxy, though I think they swapped it recently or something - haven't had it since.

I don't think NS provides the same spicyness or aggressive characters as Chinook though. Thoughts?

Issue with not using Chinook is that I've got a crapload of it due to a very generous brewer. Basically wondering is NS will actually stand out in that hop bill?

Edit: didnt see your post Goomba. Keen to hear some other opinions!


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## thanme (12/7/10)

That's a tough one...I've used both Chinkook and NS sitting behind Galaxy and Cascade respectively, but never used the 2 together....I imagine you'd probably need a touch more NS than Chinook to make it stand out at all?


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## Nick JD (12/7/10)

I've used NS extensively in a broad range of styles. I think it's a bit of a chameleon - its flavours have a lot to do with interactions with the yeast strain's esters or lack thereof. 

In warm fermented Pommy Ales I find it's very stone fruity. In American PAs, very citrusy. In lagers, a bit piney. This is using it alone without any other hops. 

Since using Citra, NS has lost its zing with me. Like many with Amarillo, I loved it to death I think.

I've never made an 80IBU beer and probably won't, so I'm not sure what you'd taste except mouth-puckering hell


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

Nick JD said:


> I've used NS extensively in a broad range of styles. I think it's a bit of a chameleon - its flavours have a lot to do with interactions with the yeast strain's esters or lack thereof.
> 
> In warm fermented Pommy Ales I find it's very stone fruity. In American PAs, very citrusy. In lagers, a bit piney. This is using it alone without any other hops.
> 
> ...



I love Stone IPA, Sierra Nevada Torpedo etc so I don't imagine the IBU's will be a problem for me.

With IBU extraction, what's the deal with a small boil in affecting hop utilisation? If I start at 1.040, but due to boil-off end up much higher than that, how much will it affect the utilisation? Should I use Rager or Tinseth in Beersmith to calc this?

Cheers


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (12/7/10)

I've used it in a multiple hop beer, as well as sampling Ross' NS based beer and I've found that if mixed with other hops (as it was in my beer) and those hops have a significant effect, it can get a little lost.

By itself, from Ross' sample, it's fantastic. I've also brewed a pale ale with it, that I've yet to taste, so take my musings with a grain of salt.

However, based on Ross' beer, I expect it to be a really good single hop beer.

It works great as a dual purpose hop. Good bitterness as well. I found that it doesn't have astringency in the bittering, making a (say) 40IBU beer not seem that bitter. My multiple hop beer using NS was really good - SWMBO thinks it's "bitter at the end", but certainly, not to the extent that I'd expected.

If you are going to use it in conjunction with other hops, I think you'd use it to bittering hop, and then the other hops for aroma (noble, British, etc).

IMO - it would probably get lost with bold American hops. It isn't as bold, though I think in enough quanity it is still a good flavoured hop - certainly not "aroma only"

After my above observations, I decided to use it as a single hop in beer, rather than part of a "kitchen sink" hop approach. I think if I'm going for a wider hop profile, it'll be Amarillo, Citra and other american hops together. Probably a conservative approach, but it seems to work.

Again, only my 2, take it with a grain of salt, as "hop flavour" is always a subjective thing.


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## Nick JD (12/7/10)

With that NS Lager of Ross's, I reckon the oats are the hero in that beer ... in beers like that though it's gooseberry similarities to the wine it's named after are clearer. 

I prefer NS for estery ales; have even used it for the bittering addition in a weizen with good results.


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## benny_bjc (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Really enjoying NS at the moment - the new coopers vintage 2010, knappstein etc.
> 
> Next brew will be a west coast IPA, 1.060 SG probably add a little crystal, about 80 IBU. I'm going to use Chinook for bittering, and Citra and Chinook as late additions. Was thinking of throwing some Sauvin in to the mix? Will it simply get lost with those aggressive american hops? Basically wondering if anyone has used NS in an american style highly hopped beer like an IPA etc. and what the results were?
> 
> ...



wow the coopers vintage is out again! 
I really liked 2008 and 2009 was nice (but tasted a bit too fresh when I tried it end of last year)

How does 2010 compare? Sounds like it may be a hoppier beer this time around?


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

It's really good. I haven't had it since the 08, so its hard to compare. It has that typical nelson sauvin hop flavour and a pretty rich malty body. I get a lot of molasses and figs from it. Really enjoy it.


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## peas_and_corn (12/7/10)

Nelson Sauvin is in Coopers Vintage?


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## Rod (12/7/10)

I made the following Nelson Sauvin Lager

Batch size: 23L
Boil volume: 4L
Boil time:40 min
Boil:
500g light dried malt extract
200g Crystal malt (steeped for 1/2 hour then sparged)
30g Nelson Sauvin (10.5%AA) 30min
30g Nelson Sauvin (10.5%AA) 5min
Added at flame out:
900g Light dried malt extract
2kg Lager liquid malt extract
Added at racking:
30g Nelson Sauvin (10.5%AA) dry hopped
Yeast:
White Labs WLP830 German Lager yeast

I found it a bit too much hops

Just tried it compared to the Knapstein and found my batch had too much hops

will drop the hops back next time


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> Nelson Sauvin is in Coopers Vintage?



Newest one does. Taste it if you dont believe me!


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## peas_and_corn (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Newest one does. Taste it if you dont believe me!



I will, I have the 08 and 09, and will be getting the 10 to continue my collection.


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## benny_bjc (12/7/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> I will, I have the 08 and 09, and will be getting the 10 to continue my collection.



what did you think of the 09??


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## peas_and_corn (12/7/10)

I haven't tried it yet, it's still maturing. I tried someone else's not long after release and it seemed a little too green. I'll probably try the 09 sometime this month- most likely as a vertical comparison with the 08 and 10.


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## benny_bjc (12/7/10)

peas_and_corn said:


> I haven't tried it yet, it's still maturing. I tried someone else's not long after release and it seemed a little too green. I'll probably try the 09 sometime this month- most likely as a vertical comparison with the 08 and 10.



Yeah I found the 09 very green, but the 08 was superb straight off the shelf! I should give the 09 another try soon!


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> To my taste Hargreaves is just Galaxy, though I think they swapped it recently or something - haven't had it since.
> 
> I don't think NS provides the same spicyness or aggressive characters as Chinook though. Thoughts?
> 
> ...



Well spotted! Our current ESB is pure Galaxy, but we do tweak quite a bit - Citra, NS and other things. 

We are about 2-3 weeks away from releasing ESB in a bottle. The first bottled batch will also be all galaxy. 

Just a question JBowers, when do you plan to add the hops? I think that all of the hops that you have named could well have a fairly similar effect, depending on technique and dry hopping. Its very hard to know about the differences between the mentioned hops without going down the Mikellar path and brewing single hop IPAs (or similar) to the same grain bill and technique, and comparing them. BTW, I think that you would have to brew them in the same day to make sure that they have the same fermentation and maturation profile, which I think for determining hop difference in highly hopped beers is critical. These hop flavours in beer are never very stable, and that is part of the beauty and curse of brewing. 

Simon


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (12/7/10)

Glad to have made amateur brewer status.


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## bullsneck (12/7/10)

Simon from Hargreaves Hill said:


> Well spotted! Our current ESB is pure Galaxy, but we do tweak quite a bit - Citra, NS and other things.
> 
> We are about 2-3 weeks away from releasing ESB in a bottle. The first bottled batch will also be all galaxy.
> 
> ...



Where will you be selling said bottles? It's a favourite for sure.


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (12/7/10)

bullsneck said:


> Where will you be selling said bottles? It's a favourite for sure.



Initially around the better beer shops and bars in Melbourne. Where abouts are you?


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## Kai (12/7/10)

Simon from Hargreaves Hill said:


> Glad to have made amateur brewer status.



Well done mate!


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

Simon from Hargreaves Hill said:


> Well spotted! Our current ESB is pure Galaxy, but we do tweak quite a bit - Citra, NS and other things.
> 
> We are about 2-3 weeks away from releasing ESB in a bottle. The first bottled batch will also be all galaxy.
> 
> ...




Great news about the ESB. Will the price be the same as the Pale Ale? If so, that is going to become a staple in my fridge.

As I have so much, Im going to use chinook for the bittering addition. From there I am basically going thinking of doing it in even parts as 10 minute and 0 minute hop additions. I've gotten a little astringency early on in the bottled beers life from hop bursting in the past so im not looking to do a huge late hopping schedule. Im thinking about 10 grams of each at 10 and 0 minutes? Might not even use the Nelson Sauvin as that's the one that I don't currently have at home.

Thoughts?


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (12/7/10)

Kai said:


> Well done mate!



Well mate, one day, if you work hard.....


Oops. just noticed you're a fermentation assistant.


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Great news about the ESB. Will the price be the same as the Pale Ale? If so, that is going to become a staple in my fridge.
> 
> As I have so much, Im going to use chinook for the bittering addition. From there I am basically going thinking of doing it in even parts as 10 minute and 0 minute hop additions. I've gotten a little astringency early on in the bottled beers life from hop bursting in the past so im not looking to do a huge late hopping schedule. Im thinking about 10 grams of each at 10 and 0 minutes? Might not even use the Nelson Sauvin as that's the one that I don't currently have at home.
> 
> Thoughts?



Probably go late with your hops. How do your beers look after a bit longer in the bottle?


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

Simon from Hargreaves Hill said:


> Probably go late with your hops. How do your beers look after a bit longer in the bottle?




Look or taste? The beer that had some astringency problems is now tasting a lot better. The issue is, the hop character isn't as strong as I'd like it to be, but when it was strong enough, it had this grainy/harsh aftertaste.

As for looks.. I mean, it looks good? Pretty clear and good head retention and lacing... Though im pretty sure you werent asking that..?


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (12/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Look or taste? The beer that had some astringency problems is now tasting a lot better. The issue is, the hop character isn't as strong as I'd like it to be, but when it was strong enough, it had this grainy/harsh aftertaste.
> 
> As for looks.. I mean, it looks good? Pretty clear and good head retention and lacing... Though im pretty sure you werent asking that..?



I meant "taste" - sorry. Are you looking for more bitterness or aroma (and aroma related flavour)? Bitterness will start to diminish after time as will other hop characters. Grainy/astringent flavours may be related to mashing, and also yeast management.


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## jbowers (12/7/10)

Simon from Hargreaves Hill said:


> I meant "taste" - sorry. Are you looking for more bitterness or aroma (and aroma related flavour)? Bitterness will start to diminish after time as will other hop characters. Grainy/astringent flavours may be related to mashing, and also yeast management.




Well, the aroma was fine when it was fresh, now that it's a few months old it is good, but not ideal, but the astringent feelings around the back of the mouth have died down.

The issue is it was an extract brew, so it cant really be to do with mashing in this case. I used nottingham in this case, and pitched a correct amount and fermented at 18 degrees using my chest freezer with a thermostat.


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## Simon from Hargreaves Hill (13/7/10)

jbowers said:


> Great news about the ESB. Will the price be the same as the Pale Ale? If so, that is going to become a staple in my fridge.



It will be slightly more expensive because of the extra ingredients and the excise - 5.2%a/v. It will be available across Melb initially, but we will be sending some to Sydney also.


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## Back Yard Brewer (13/7/10)

Simon from Hargreaves Hill said:


> It will be slightly more expensive because of the extra ingredients and the excise - 5.2%a/v. It will be available across Melb initially, but we will be sending some to Sydney also.



To the Barossa as well  Loved last time I had it ( oct 2008 ) Will be hunting it down this October as well 

BYB


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## Shed101 (13/7/10)

I think a certain Sunshine Coast household would be fairly pleased to be able to stock HH ESB, too


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## madawoods (15/9/13)

enjoyed quite a few of the ESB last night, next to some Young Henry's and Ferals this was my pick. Loved the malt character and great balance. Will cross the harbour to visit Coogee Bay RSL just to drink a few more. great beer, any hints on the malts used?


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