# Sanitizing a Plate Chiller



## Beerbuoy (18/1/13)

I'm normally a no chill brewer but just upgraded to a plate chiller for my APA's and IPA's.

I'm wondering how people sanitize their plate chiller? I was thinking of pumping some starsan through the chiller first then putting the hose from the chiller into the top of the kettle and recirculating hot wort for 5min before turning on the cooling water and chucking the hose into the fermenter.

How do you sanitize your plate chiller??


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## twizt1d (18/1/13)

i dont even worry about the starsan anymore.. i start circulating through it just before the 10 min addition goes in, wort will drop off the boil for a bit but i just crank the burner up and get it boiling hard for the last 10 mins
turn it off before whirlpooling and let it sit while the whirlpool settles
you will need to run the cooling water through for a few minutes until the chiller cools down before you run off to a fermenter though otherwise the first few litres will come through pretty hot

chiller always gets flushed both ways after use and every 2nd or 3rd brew i circulate pbw through it, i always give it a quick flush before using it too


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## Screwtop (18/1/13)

Beerbuoy said:


> I'm normally a no chill brewer but just upgraded to a plate chiller for my APA's and IPA's.
> 
> I'm wondering how people sanitize their plate chiller? I was thinking of pumping some starsan through the chiller first then putting the hose from the chiller into the top of the kettle and recirculating hot wort for 5min before turning on the cooling water and chucking the hose into the fermenter.
> 
> How do you sanitize your plate chiller??


The same way you do basically. Following use, pump PBW solution through it CIP style for 20 min. Before use, flush with water in both directions a few times, then pump boiling wort through it for the last 15 min of the boil, wort returns via the whirlpool fitting in the kettle. Turn on water to the chiller at flame out and recirc/whirlpool for 20 min, then divert from whirlpool to fermenter. 

Screwy


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## Wolfy (18/1/13)

I try to clean the MT while the wort is boiling in the kettle.
As part of that process the close-to-boiling cleaning stuff gets run through the plate chiller, and then the close-to-boiling rinse water is recirculated through it.

It gets a dose of starsan after it's been cleaned, but that's as much for its acidity as it is to sanitize.


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## tallie (18/1/13)

There are some more options & discussion here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/62531-plate-chiller-storage/

Cheers,
tallie


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## Jace89 (18/1/13)

I usually run boiling water straight through it after use and right before I use it. But before wort touches it I ran around a litre or so of starsan through it. 
The litre or so of starsan just runs straight into the fermenter ill be using anyways so no loss for me there, and I can kill 2 birds with one stone. 
This is the best method I can come up with without a pump.


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## Beerbuoy (19/1/13)

Sounds good. Just wanted to make sure before I put 40lts of glorious IPA through it. 

Can't wait to try my first chilled beer. Planning on heaps of late hops :icon_drool2:

Thanks


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## Goose (19/1/13)

I recirculate boiling wort for 10 mins, though I am led to blieve that boiling cannot kill all spores.

If you really want to be sure you can bake that puppy in an oven at max temperature for 2 hours, it will give you peace of mind.


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## eamonnfoley (19/1/13)

Its tricky recirculating boiling wort as it usually won't flow out of the brewpot to the pump. I normally have to turn off the boil for a little bit, get it recirculating (sometimes takes a while, on/off/on/off/etc), and restart boil.

Cleaning the chiller is important. I recirc hot/concentrated sodium percarb and it goes super dark brown after every brew. Used to bake the thing, but if its not clean you get too much ash stuck on the inside.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/1/13)

Do it the right way, caustic before use, rise a few times in a backward flow, then santise with acid santiser, no rinse preferable.
After brew, flush in backward flow to remove gunk,then caustic flow, I then seal up the tube and leave caustic in till next use.
No need to run hot wort thru dirty plate chillers, it must be cleaned first (caustic).
Nev


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## beerdrinkingbob (19/1/13)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Do it the right way, caustic before use, rise a few times in a backward flow, then santise with acid santiser, no rinse preferable.
> After brew, flush in backward flow to remove gunk,then caustic flow, I then seal up the tube and leave caustic in till next use.
> No need to run hot wort thru dirty plate chillers, it must be cleaned first (caustic).
> Nev



What strength Nev?


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## stux (19/1/13)

Reading this thread makes me want to get an immersion chiller.

Are plate chillers that much better?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/1/13)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> What strength Nev?


I use beer line cleaner (caustic liquid) mixed to the normal dose, which from memory is 10m per litre. Also good for your beer lines !
Should find this cleaner at a lot of chem suppliers.
Peroxycetic(sp?) acid sanitise @ 2-3ml per litre.Good chem supplier.
Nev


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## dr K (19/1/13)

The better brewers do as Nev suggests.
As to plate vs immersion, I personally use an immersion chiller and constant whirlpool via two pumps in parallel during the very fast cooling process. Of course one pump is enough but I have two so use two.
The critical thing is fast chilling.

K


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## Goose (19/1/13)

"caustic" flow means PBW ?


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## goomboogo (19/1/13)

Goose said:


> "caustic" flow means PBW ?


I think Nev is referring to sodium hydroxide.


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## Goose (19/1/13)

goomboogo said:


> I think Nev is referring to sodium hydroxide.


are you sure, thats very nasty stuff in pure form


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## goomboogo (19/1/13)

Goose said:


> are you sure, thats very nasty stuff in pure form


I'm not sure as to what Nev's referring to but I agree about the potential nastiness of sodium hydroxide.


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## Dan Pratt (19/1/13)

dr K said:


> The better brewers do as Nev suggests.
> As to plate vs immersion, I personally use an immersion chiller and constant whirlpool via two pumps in parallel during the very fast cooling process. Of course one pump is enough but I have two so use two.
> The critical thing is fast chilling.
> 
> K



Slightly off topic....what's your time frame to chill after flame out Dr?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/1/13)

The product I use is "Beer line cleaner" by Chemform Green it has Akaline salts 10-30% W/V.
I am not a chemist but I strongly advise being careful when using. I did use the pearl form Caustic granules,I think at 2% W/V but it is a pain to use compared to the liquid Alkaline salts.
The Peroxycetic Acid is a very aggressive oxidiser and you need extreme caution not to get it on your skin or in your eyes, once diluted its fairly safe to use.
Nev


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## Thefatdoghead (19/1/13)

Anyone want to swap a 30mk plate chiller for a good immersion chiller? It will be up for sale and/or swap in the correct thread soon.


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## Batz (20/1/13)

Gav80 said:


> Anyone want to swap a 30mk plate chiller for a good immersion chiller? It will be up for sale and/or swap in the correct thread soon.


Why do you want to go to an immersion chiller Gav?


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## Batz (20/1/13)

I notice on CB website in the instructions it states,




> HOW TO SETUP
> Mount the ChillOut vertically with the writing on the name plate facing up. For pump and gravity setup to avoid air being trapped in the water flow it is suggested that water out be raised above the height of the water in flow.


Are people doing this? So does it mean you change the direction of flow of both the water and wort?

Batz


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## browndog (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> I notice on CB website in the instructions it states,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine sits horisontally with a slight slope up towards the wort outlet end of the chiller to prevent any air bubbles remaining in the chiller, this seems to work fine, but I can understand how mounting it vertically would be more practical. I just could not set mine up that way due to the hard plumbing. Not sure what they mean by "vertically with the name plate facing up"

cheers

Browndog


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## Batz (20/1/13)

browndog said:


> Mine sits horisontally with a slight slope up towards the wort outlet end of the chiller to prevent any air bubbles remaining in the chiller, this seems to work fine, but I can understand how mounting it vertically would be more practical. I just could not set mine up that way due to the hard plumbing. Not sure what they mean by "vertically with the name plate facing up"
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog


Seems a bit strange to me as well Tony, the wort flows one way and water the other. So no matter what you do either the wort or water will have the possibility of air being trapped.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> Seems a bit strange to me as well Tony, the wort flows one way and water the other. So no matter what you do either the wort or water will have the possibility of air being trapped.


I guess not all plate chillers are designed the same, never had air lock issues with mine.
Nev


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## billygoat (20/1/13)

What do most of you use to stop getting hop stuff in your plate chiller while cooling?
Hop sock?
Anything else?
The more you stop getting into the plate chiller, the easier to clean I suppose.


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## goomboogo (20/1/13)

I use a s/s strainer on the end of the pick-up tube. It was made by Beerbelly in Adelaide. It works a treat.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (20/1/13)

billygoat said:


> What do most of you use to stop getting hop stuff in your plate chiller while cooling? Hop sock? Anything else? The more you stop getting into the plate chiller, the easier to clean I suppose.


Nothing if using pellets, just flush and clean really well after use. Whilfloc in the boil will hold a lot back.
Nev


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## NewtownClown (20/1/13)

goomboogo said:


> I think Nev is referring to sodium hydroxide.


No. Hydrogen Peroxide, also very nasty when not diluted. (household stuff is 3%).
PEROXYACETIC ACID = Peracetic acid, acetic acid, hydrogen peroxide and water


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## Online Brewing Supplies (20/1/13)

Sodium hydroxide is know as Caustic or lye, depending which country you are in, I use the Alkaline salts as its easier and apparently more green ?
Caustic cleaning is a generic term I use which is really not that accurate, sorry.
Nev


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## Batz (20/1/13)

I still don't seem to have an answer to my post #23, surely there's plenty of brewers using these things. Ross can you explain please?

I ask this question as I have a plate chiller to set up soon, bought form craftbrewer.

Batz


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## browndog (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> Seems a bit strange to me as well Tony, the wort flows one way and water the other. So no matter what you do either the wort or water will have the possibility of air being trapped.


I'd rather have air in the cooling water sections than in the wort sections.


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## browndog (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> I still don't seem to have an answer to my post #23, surely there's plenty of brewers using these things. Ross can you explain please?
> 
> I ask this question as I have a plate chiller to set up soon, bought form craftbrewer.
> 
> Batz


I think it may be supposed to read "mount the chiller horisontally with the writing on the name plate facing up"


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## Batz (20/1/13)

browndog said:


> I'd rather have air in the cooling water sections than in the wort sections.



I see where your coming from Tony but of course we would rather not have air in our chiller no matter what side. Perhaps it is the fitter in me, chasing air out of systems is something I do for a living, I can't see where the problem is with these chillers? I would have thought the flow of the liquid in either direction would be enough to expel any air. I read the craftbrewer instructions and see some must experience problems.


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## TidalPete (20/1/13)

Doesn't really answer the question but in my HERMS it's set up directly vertical with a slight cant backwards to help stop unwanted dripping.
Depending on your setup you can easily hook up the garden hose (or HLT if rigged to do so) onto the HEX-out as I do & thus blow everything backwards no worries.
Can't say I've ever bothered thinking about it in regards to a Braumiester but bleeding my system before sanitising via whirpool @ 20 minutes means I never have air problems anywhere at any time.


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## Batz (20/1/13)

TidalPete said:


> Doesn't really answer the question but in my HERMS it's set up directly vertical with a slight cant backwards to help stop unwanted dripping.
> Depending on your setup you can easily hook up the garden hose (or HLT if rigged to do so) onto the HEX-out as I do & thus blow everything backwards no worries.
> Can't say I've ever bothered thinking about it in regards to a Braumiester but bleeding my system before sanitising via whirpool @ 20 minutes means I never have air problems anywhere at any time.


Thanks Pete, so does this mean both your wort and cooling water flow in the same direction? Cooling water connected to the outflow, and wort to the inflow chiller connections. 

Batz


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## TidalPete (20/1/13)

Opposite directions.
NOT waiting for the day when my bore water (chilling) connection bursts & sprays bore water everywhere.


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## Parks (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> Thanks Pete, so does this mean both your wort and cooling water flow in the same direction? Cooling water connected to the outflow, and wort to the inflow chiller connections.
> 
> Batz


Water and wort most definitely should be travelling in opposite directions. You WILL get much worse cooling if going the same direction.

My guess with the writing facing up is it forces you to get all the air out on the wort side. It also suggests having the hose of the water on the outlet side higher than the inlet to achieve the same thing.


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## Batz (20/1/13)

Parks said:


> Water and wort most definitely should be travelling in opposite directions. You WILL get much worse cooling if going the same direction.
> 
> My guess with the writing facing up is it forces you to get all the air out on the wort side. It also suggests having the hose of the water on the outlet side higher than the inlet to achieve the same thing.


I agree, but as you say it suggests as you said,_ having the hose water on the outlet side higher than the inlet to achive the samething._
Only now both the water and wort travel in the same direction, no good will come of this.


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## Batz (20/1/13)

I know how I will plumb and use my chiller, just trying to get my head around Craftbrewers instructions.

Batz


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## dicko (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> I still don't seem to have an answer to my post #23, surely there's plenty of brewers using these things. Ross can you explain please?
> 
> I ask this question as I have a plate chiller to set up soon, bought form craftbrewer.
> 
> Batz


Hi batz,
I have a plate chiller that I used to use before I got a chillus maximus, you know the type,
anyway, just mount it upright with the the wort going in the bottom fitting and out the top and the coolant going in the top fitting and out the bottom.
If you raise the hose on the outlet of the coolant side it should bleed any air that may be in the system.
To be honest I just had the coolant hoses laying on the floor from the tap (in) and back to a sink drain(out) with the out side about a metre off the floor to get over the side of the sink to the drain.
In simple terms just ensure both wort and cooland sides have no air in there.
I never had any trouble and I am sure you wont have any bother either. 
Cheers


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## Parks (20/1/13)

Batz said:


> I agree, but as you say it suggests as you said,_ having the hose water on the outlet side higher than the inlet to achive the samething._
> Only now both the water and wort travel in the same direction, no good will come of this.


No, you mis-read. It doesn't say *attach the hose* to the top, it says *raise the hose* above the inlet.

ie, the water comes out the bottom where the outlet is then goes up the hose which should be higher than the inlet.


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## Screwtop (21/1/13)

Never did mount my 30 plate chiller. Use it on the floor with hoses connected (wort and water in opposite directions naturally). No air locks/bubbles and IMO easier to clean and drain being portable. Hand it up after cleaning to drain the hot side, next day I switch it around on the hanger ensuring that each side hot/cold is drained completely.


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## dicko (21/1/13)

Screwtop said:


> Never did mount my 30 plate chiller. Use it on the floor with hoses connected (wort and water in opposite directions naturally). No air locks/bubbles and IMO easier to clean and drain being portable. Hand it up after cleaning to drain the hot side, next day I switch it around on the hanger ensuring that each side hot/cold is drained completely.



I made mine quite easy to remove by hinging a piece of flat aluminium to the frame of the brewery at the same distance from one upright as is the width of the chiller. I then used a wing nut to attach the aluminium to the upright part of the frame so when it is time for cleaning it is just a few seconds to remove the chiller.
I fitted cam locks to the wort side and snap on hose fittings to the coolant side.


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## Parks (21/1/13)

dicko said:


> I made mine quite easy to remove by hinging a piece of flat aluminium to the frame of the brewery at the same distance from one upright as is the width of the chiller. I then used a wing nut to attach the aluminium to the upright part of the frame so when it is time for cleaning it is just a few seconds to remove the chiller.


I'm thinking something similar once I finally make my stand. I'm thinking that leaving the chiller flooded with some sodium percarb (similar to what Nev said with caustic) might be the way to go. I don't know about you guys but I can never seem to get all the water out of mine no matter the orientation or violent swinging to get it out.

(note, I'm going to investigate to ensure the chemical I use will not eat my plate chiller...)


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## Online Brewing Supplies (21/1/13)

Parks said:


> I'm thinking something similar once I finally make my stand. I'm thinking that leaving the chiller flooded with some sodium percarb (similar to what Nev said with caustic) might be the way to go. I don't know about you guys but I can never seem to get all the water out of mine no matter the orientation or violent swinging to get it out.
> 
> (note, I'm going to investigate to ensure the chemical I use will not eat my plate chiller...)


I leave my cleaner in as mentioned, I do get green color caustic if I leave it in for a long time (Months) or mix at above recommended ratio but thats from the copper solder, I have been doing this for many years and would have only removed a poofteenth of a micron of copper so far. Hey at least I know its clean. I would be more concerned if it it was acid being left in there. I also run the pump whilst connected every few days, I must have the cleanest plate chiller in Aussie 
Nev


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## Parks (21/1/13)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I leave my cleaner in as mentioned, I do get green color caustic if I leave it in for a long time (Months) or mix at above recommended ratio but thats from the copper solder, I have been doing this for many years and would have only removed a poofteenth of a micron of copper so far. Hey at least I know its clean. I would be more concerned if it it was acid being left in there. I also run the pump whilst connected every few days, I must have the cleanest plate chiller in Aussie
> Nev


Yeah, I would think doing that would be a much better solution than the possibility of mould growing from moisture.



Gryphon Brewing said:


> only removed a poofteenth of a micron of copper


P.S. Is that a standard measure :lol:


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## drsmurto (21/1/13)

An alkaline based cleaner can be used as Nev has described, PBW/sodium hydroxide is alkaline.

I don't store homemade PBW (Sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate) in my plate chiller but do run a hot solution of it through periodically followed by a hot rinse and then an acid based, no rinse sanitiser (eg. starsan), then hot water then drain. Just before use i run an acid based, no rinse sanitiser through.

Flush in both directions at each step.

Immediately after use i run hot tap water through both directions and then allow to drain.


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## TidalPete (21/1/13)

dicko said:


> I made mine quite easy to remove by hinging a piece of flat aluminium to the frame of the brewery at the same distance from one upright as is the width of the chiller. I then used a wing nut to attach the aluminium to the upright part of the frame so when it is time for cleaning it is just a few seconds to remove the chiller. I fitted cam locks to the wort side and snap on hose fittings to the coolant side.


My chiller is upright & enclosed in a ss bracket with a hook on the back for easy detatchment. Hot PBW for cleaning here & flush both ways afterwards.

Off-topic --- Gee this forum upgrade makes quoting\posting too easy.


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