# Biab Bag Material



## Brown_hound (31/12/10)

G'day all,

As a handful of you may or very likely may not have read, I stuffed my grain bag beyond repair by burn!


Have scoured the forums and have seen regularly mentioned 'Swiss Voile', which is apparently readily available at Spotlight.. Brilliant!

Headed down to my local (Once was) Spotlight store- to find out it's a bloody Lincraft.. And as I predicted, they have no friggin Swiss Voile.

I described the application to the helpful shop assistants, and they assured me a bag made from Mescalin will be as good, even better..

This mescalin shite is 100% cotton with a fairly tight threading... To be honest it looks the goods. Doubled over and double stitched i think it'll be fine.


Before going to all the effort I thought I'd ask the community first! Any previous or current experiences with this stuff?


Look forward to hearing from you all.....


My prediction? Knowing my luck- It's no good... And I'll have to swallow my pride, muster up all my Dutch courage and walk into a bloody craft store again!!


Cheers in advance guys.


James.


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## Phoney (31/12/10)

I bought mine from a fabric shop in Marrickville. Even the Vietnamese-Australian owner of the shop who had limited English could straight away point out the Swiss Voile...

One day I had a disaster involving a drill & paint stirrer that I wont go into, but needless to say the bag needed replacing. :unsure: So I ordered a pre-fabricated bag from Gryphon brewing. Firstly, I have to say the "coke can" design of my new bag works much better than the "pillow slip" design in containing the splills when I hoist the bag. Secondly, after buying the material + nylong thread, then having to borrow and stuff around with a sewing machine etc.... In my opinion buying the bag saved a heap of time & effort, and didnt actually work out that much more expensive than making my original bag. So if I had my time again, I would say making the bag wasn't worth my while...

Make of that what you will


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## Ross (31/12/10)

BH,

Best to avoid cotton, you really want polyester/nylon. The cotton will no doubt work, but for performance, longevity, strength, cleaning etc avoid natural fibres.

Cheers Ross


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## DUANNE (31/12/10)

mescaline beer hey, that sounds pretty good to me! i have not used cotton but my only worry would be longevity of the bag.


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## Lecterfan (31/12/10)

I tried cotton once and the weave was far too tight. Sure it strained everything out....if you had a spare couple of hours...

It may work fine for you (I just mash in a bag in an esky), but I will never deviate from the polyester curtain material again.

Also, as others have pointed out, the natural fibres will eventually weaken and break...

edit: maybe try straining something through it before making the whole bag to see what you reckon - like some coffee or spent grain or whatever...


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## Online Brewing Supplies (31/12/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> I bought mine from a fabric shop in Marrickville. Even the Vietnamese-Australian owner of the shop who had limited English could straight away point out the Swiss Voile...
> 
> One day I had a disaster involving a drill & paint stirrer that I wont go into, but needless to say the bag needed replacing. :unsure: So I ordered a pre-fabricated bag from Gryphon brewing. Firstly, I have to say the "coke can" design of my new bag works much better than the "pillow slip" design in containing the splills when I hoist the bag. Secondly, after buying the material + nylong thread, then having to borrow and stuff around with a sewing machine etc.... In my opinion buying the bag saved a heap of time & effort, and didnt actually work out that much more expensive than making my original bag. So if I had my time again, I would say making the bag wasn't worth my while...
> 
> Make of that what you will


Coke Can" design, I like that ! :beerbang: Credit for the bag design must go to PP who first did this design and allowed me to use it.
GB


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## Brown_hound (31/12/10)

Lecterfan said:


> I tried cotton once and the weave was far too tight. Sure it strained everything out....if you had a spare couple of hours...
> 
> It may work fine for you (I just mash in a bag in an esky), but I will never deviate from the polyester curtain material again.
> 
> ...




Good on you all for the help and advice..

As for a short term solution, I think this is the go (No way I could be bothered going back to the craft store..).

My initial concern was definitely the durability of natural fibres, however, after my bag disaster last BIAB, I used a polyester pillowcase to save the day, and not a drop came through.

The answer here I think is a looser weaved synthetic.. That or Craftbrewer! Only issue there is I've just bought a new 40lt Pot and my last Grain bag, purchased from my LHBS would not have been big enough for it... (any bites Ross?).

Cheers James.


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## Brown_hound (31/12/10)

Sorry, BTW...

Water made it through the Mescalin with ease... With some absorbed by the material of course...


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## Brown_hound (31/12/10)

Mescalin is Lettuce

Material I'm talking about? Muslin.


Dickhead.....


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## thylacine (31/12/10)

re bag material-

http://www.biabrewer.info/viewforum.php?f=...d194a17bac20b9b


"...Mescaline or 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine is a naturally-occurring psychedelic alkaloid..." (Wiki...)

;-)


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## Online Brewing Supplies (31/12/10)

thylacine said:


> re bag material-
> 
> http://www.biabrewer.info/viewforum.php?f=...d194a17bac20b9b
> 
> ...


What a bag that would be. Buzzed bag.
GB


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## Brown_hound (31/12/10)

OK.

Cracking the shiddledits..

Have just tested the strength of this Muslin Crap, and there's no way it'll hold a good wallop of grain..

Been ringing around also and cannot for the life of me find any Swiss Voile...

Has anyone got enough laying around I could buy it off them and have it mailed through to me?

Obviously 100% Polyester is the go... How fine a thread can it be? Is the finest possible ideal? Just terrified bout making another buy only to find out the bloody water won't filter through.


Thanks in advance.

James.


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## matr (31/12/10)

Apparently Ikea sell it. Have you tried there?

Cheers, Mat.


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## beerbog (31/12/10)

Open http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=341 and give your credit card details, sit back and have a few, wait for it to turn up and then make some beer! :beerbang:


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## Brown_hound (31/12/10)

Gibbo1 said:


> Open http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=341 and give your credit card details, sit back and have a few, wait for it to turn up and then make some beer! :beerbang:




Tried Ikea to no avail.....

I'm liking the linky Gibbo.. Grypho here I come!


Cheers boys... You've all been tops.

Have a top New years.

James.


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## felten (31/12/10)

I just noticed this morning that grain and grape also have a BIAB bag


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## Thirsty Boy (31/12/10)

They do - if you are desperate to avoid sewing, or if you just cant work out what the dozens of threads describing the bag material mean so you can go find it at the fabric shop - then maybe the G&G bag is for you. But only if cheapness and availability are your primary requirements - the gryphon bag is much much more suitable for teh purpose, but its price reflects that. The G&G bag will get you brewing, but apart from that hasn't got a lot going for it.

I know that John is however negotiating with the guy who makes them and there is some chance that in the nearish future the bag design will be changed to one more fitted to the purpose. I "think" that the bag you can get from KegKing is the same thing you can get from G&G.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (31/12/10)

Nothing against John's bag. But I checked out the bags and and I reminded me of one of those funny bank jobs where the dude pulls the bag over his head and thinks he is invisible then pulls it up cause he cant see.. :blink: 
GB


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## BobtheBrewer (31/12/10)

If you want Swiss Voile from spotlight you will find it in the curtain section. I asked my daughter to get me some and she was sold muslin, because they said that they didn't have it. Ripped it after 3 brews and asked her to go back and search the curtain section. Sure enough, there it was. It seems to settle into my urn a lot better than the muslin did and is easier to squeeze out. Bag is only one layer, but made in the "coke can" style.


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## wiley (1/1/11)

Gibbo1 said:


> Open http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/pro...products_id=341 and give your credit card details, sit back and have a few, wait for it to turn up and then make some beer! :beerbang:



$45 sounds a bit pricey for a bag. Better off going to a department store and buying a cheap shower curtain, line the inside of your boiler and cut off what you don't need.

No wonder people buy on-line from China. Same products for up to 60% less....including postage.


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## felten (1/1/11)

Aren't shower curtains water proof?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (1/1/11)

wiley said:


> $45 sounds a bit pricey for a bag. Better off going to a department store and buying a cheap shower curtain, line the inside of your boiler and cut off what you don't need.
> 
> No wonder people buy on-line from China. Same products for up to 60% less....including postage.


Yes that is exactly what you should do, buy a shower curtain and make a biab bag, maybe also buy that shower curtain from China and save a shed load of dollars. 
GB


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## MitchDudarko (1/1/11)

Trying to lure in new customers Nev?
Love your work.


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## felten (1/1/11)

If you can't make good beer with a chinese shower curtain, then you're just a bad brewer


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## Brown_hound (1/1/11)

MitchDudarko said:


> Trying to lure in new customers Nev?
> Love your work.




Worked on me a charm... Haha..


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## bum (1/1/11)

wiley said:


> $45 sounds a bit pricey for a bag. Better off going to a department store and buying a cheap shower curtain, line the inside of your boiler and cut off what you don't need.


Whoa! Good work, 2011. You're not mucking around, are you? Bigger and brighter for sure.


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## beerbog (1/1/11)

wiley said:


> No wonder people buy on-line from China. Same products for up to 60% less....including postage.



And the quality is usually 60% less as well. :beerbang:


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## keifer33 (1/1/11)

wiley said:


> line the inside of your boiler and cut off what you don't need.



I think this will be problematic as cheap chinese shower curtains would be a good melting of all kinds of chemicals into your brew.

Radioactive beer anyone?


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## BEC26 (2/1/11)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes that is exactly what you should do, buy a shower curtain and make a biab bag, maybe also buy that shower curtain from China and save a shed load of dollars.
> GB




Top it all off with some Chinese hops . . . . maybe a bulk buy somewhere :unsure: :unsure:


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## leiothrix (2/1/11)

Why bother making a bag? I've got a 50L Robinox pot, and use a 1.5m^2 piece of polyester swiss voile. The edges are hemmed to stop it fraying, and that's it. And you could probably not hem it too if you can't sew or whatnot.

Works awesomely. Drains properly (unlike the pillow-case style ones which hang like dogs balls and drip from the two corners rather than from the center). It's strong, and there are no seams that can fail and splash 60-70* wort all over the place.


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## Brown_hound (2/1/11)

leiothrix said:


> Why bother making a bag? I've got a 50L Robinox pot, and use a 1.5m^2 piece of polyester swiss voile. The edges are hemmed to stop it fraying, and that's it. And you could probably not hem it too if you can't sew or whatnot.
> 
> Works awesomely. Drains properly (unlike the pillow-case style ones which hang like dogs balls and drip from the two corners rather than from the center). It's strong, and there are no seams that can fail and splash 60-70* wort all over the place.




Thanks mate.

After leaving Lincraft with the Muslin, I thought I'd at least give it a go.. So I put down a megaswill on NYD.

It worked a treat surprisingly, by using it much the same way you're describing (minus the hem-work).

Attempted sewing it to begin with into a bag.... My hands are better suited to terminating cable I think.

Just popped it into the pot and let the Muslin drape over the sides, cut it roughly where it touched the ground, and it worked a treat!

The big issue though is going to be the durability- as everyone's saying... After buying 20bucks worth of the stuff, I figure if I get 8 or 9 brews out of it, there's my money's worth..


Kind thanks again to everyone for their help and advice.


James.


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## Bribie G (2/1/11)

I have 2 Gryphon ($45) bags. In their defence they are free postage, made from the right stuff, very well sewn (one bag has done over 80 brews and good as new) and they are elasticated at the top which is a bonus. My original bag was:

$11 Spotlight
$15 to Shirley the sewing lady to make it to my diagram
$10 petrol going the 60k round trip to Spotlight, plus two round trips to Shirls, and a few hours out of my diminishing life expectancy when I could have been drinking :icon_drunk: 

However if you have a machine and are a sewing maven, go for it.


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## Brown_hound (2/1/11)

BribieG said:


> I have 2 Gryphon ($45) bags. In their defence they are free postage, made from the right stuff, very well sewn (one bag has done over 80 brews and good as new) and they are elasticated at the top which is a bonus. My original bag was:
> 
> $11 Spotlight
> $15 to Shirley the sewing lady to make it to my diagram
> ...




Shirley..... Couldn't think of a better name for a sewing lady.  

Have just bought a Gryphon bag! even more confident now you've given it a rap!

Awesome.


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## mccuaigm (2/1/11)

I agree on the GB bag, good value when you look at the logistics of making your own. If I tried to make it myself, it would suck & probably need another soon.


EDIT: Spellink


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/1/11)

My mum will say a prayer for all you Biab guys at church, its the only income she has other than the pension. Mum puts a lot of time and care into every bag she makes. Hand made buy mum and its doesnt get much better than that. I tell her we have sent bags to all states of Australia, America and Italy and she is very proud. :icon_cheers: 
GB


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## Brown_hound (2/1/11)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> My mum will say a prayer for all you Biab guys at church, its the only income she has other than the pension. Mum puts a lot of time and care into every bag she makes. Hand made buy mum and its doesnt get much better than that. I tell her we have sent bags to all states of Australia, America and Italy and she is very proud. :icon_cheers:
> GB



And all the best to your mum..

$45 brilliantly spent as far as I'm concerned.


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## eamonnfoley (2/1/11)

Brown_hound said:


> And all the best to your mum..
> 
> $45 brilliantly spent as far as I'm concerned.



+1 mine seems indestructible! 2 years of heavy duty.... What's that per batch? Basically nothing?


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## Brown_hound (2/1/11)

foles said:


> +1 mine seems indestructible! 2 years of heavy duty.... What's that per batch? Basically nothing?



Zero.


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## BEC26 (2/1/11)

BribieG said:


> I have 2 Gryphon ($45) bags.
> 
> $15 to Shirley the sewing lady to make it to my diagram






Gryphon Brewing said:


> My mum will say a prayer for all you Biab guys at church, its the only income she has other than the pension. Mum puts a lot of time and care into every bag she makes. Hand made buy mum and its doesnt get much better than that. I tell her we have sent bags to all states of Australia, America and Italy and she is very proud. :icon_cheers:
> GB




GB,

I hope her name is Shirley, Maureen, Sheila, Barbara, Norma, Cheryl, Judith, Pat, Bev, Joan, Val,Nola or Glenda! 

Just put a tag in "hand made by XXXXXXXX" and everyone will be gushing - just like my wife does when this happens with eBay <_< 

No offense meant, was playing with bribie's seamstress' name

Cheers


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## dr K (3/1/11)

I chose the cheaper option, got a smaller single pot (called it my kettle), spent $20 on a cheap "esky" to which I added a rubbermaid style picnic tap and a flywire manifold and a an old clamp on the run-off to provide flow control (called it my mash tun) and a BMW drum as my HLT/fermentor.
It may be old fashioned but its less expensive than BIAB!!

K


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## Thirsty Boy (3/1/11)

Well, less expensive than some guys Dr K - my BIAB adventures have cost me a total of $26 on equipment so far. That includes my pot.

Sure, i already owned and knew how to use a sewing maching - but i assume you didn't buy the tools you used to build your mash tun, or go out and get lessons in how to use them especially for the job did you?


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## Bribie G (3/1/11)

dr K said:


> I chose the cheaper option, got a smaller single pot (called it my kettle), spent $20 on a cheap "esky" to which I added a rubbermaid style picnic tap and a flywire manifold and a an old clamp on the run-off to provide flow control (called it my mash tun) and a BMW drum as my HLT/fermentor.
> It may be old fashioned but its less expensive than BIAB!!
> 
> K


 :icon_offtopic: - I've put a couple of BIAB guides up on a number of forums and always stress that cost of setup is not really a factor with BIAB as opposed to 3V. One of the more expesive options - the 40L urn and a commercially made bag - is actually one of the more popular start up AG kits nowadays because it's a turnkey brewery out of the box - almost a poor man's Braumeister :icon_cheers: 

On the other hand two of the best brewers I'm acquainted with have 3V systems with various vessels and eskies sitting on piles of bricks or milk crates and an old rambo on the patio. Dogs n cats mate, dogs n cats. You love yours.


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## MHB (3/1/11)

BribieG said:


> :icon_offtopic: - I've put a couple of BIAB guides up on a number of forums and always stress that cost of setup is not really a factor with BIAB as opposed to 3V. One of the more expesive options - the 40L urn and a commercially made bag - is actually one of the more popular start up AG kits nowadays because it's a turnkey brewery out of the box - almost a poor man's Braumeister :icon_cheers:
> 
> On the other hand two of the best brewers I'm acquainted with have 3V systems with various vessels and eskies sitting on piles of bricks or milk crates and an old rambo on the patio. Dogs n cats mate, dogs n cats. You love yours.



Well give or take a couple of pumps and a programmable PID controller and a bit of German engineering. Maybe more of a poor second cousin than a little brother.

MHB


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## Bribie G (3/1/11)

MHB said:


> Well give or take a couple of pumps and a programmable PID controller and a bit of German engineering. Maybe more of a poor second cousin than a little brother.
> 
> MHB



Ach, so :beerbang:  

I was referring, in the context of BIAB, more to the "turnkey" aspect of being able to unpack a single-vessel piece of kit and have it up and running in few minutes - which of course you can also do with a 3v system like that mighty beast on a trolley that Ross bought (forget its name just now).


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## RdeVjun (3/1/11)

BribieG said:


> a 3v system like that mighty beast on a trolley that Ross bought (forget its name just now).


Sabco I think BribieG.

Don't get me started on how cheap BIAB can be!


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## wiley (3/1/11)

It is quite obvious that a lot of brewers do not frequent haberdashery/fabric shops in search for fabrics.

It is true that some of the cheap shower curtains purchased at stores such as Bi-Lo, Aldi etc are made of waterproof plastic.

A more elaborate shower curtain is made using silk. Yes they do make them. An in-between quality curtain can and usually is made using a polyester fabric (similar fabric used by some BIAB's). A shower curtain need not be waterproof. It's main purpose is to stop the spray from waterlogging the rest of the room.

The word 'Voile' in my Oxford dictionary is described as "a thin, semi-transparent fabric of cotton, wool or silk". No mention of polyester or rayon.


THIS IS WHERE I BASE THE 60% LESS:

I have read numerous topics in these forums about brewers suggesting links to sites for the purchase of HB equipment. Almost all link you to Ebay. Most of the ones I checked are Hong Kong (CHINA) based.

This is an example of what I found...

Refractometer from a LHBS for $69.50 PLUS POSTAGE ($10.20) = $79.70.







The same unit from Hong Kong, CHINA, delivered to your door $29.80.




I rest my case.


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