# Bottling Of First All Grain (biab) - Concerns



## eamonnfoley (12/1/09)

G'day all,

Just bottled my first all grain BIAB. Have the following concerns:

1) Fermented for 12 days in primary. FG was 1014 for a American Pale Ale. Expected 1012ish, but can't calculate ABV as as I broke my hydrometer on brewday and didnt get an OG reading. Also mashed too high by accident. About 70C, so there could be more dextrins. Also not sure all the yeast had flocculated as the beer was quite cloudy.

2) My priming sugar was yellow after boiling it - is this ok?

3) A little mould was present on the outside of the fermenter - was in a pretty clean fridge (so I thought) at 19C for 12 days. Didn't look like there was any infection problems though.

4) Beer smelt ok but maybe not as good as when I took a reading after a bout 7 days.

5) Using that Pink sanitiser powder- is it any good? What do people clean with first when they use Iodophor for sanitising.

6) Bottling about 18L took over 3 hours in total. IS this normal!?

Cheers,

Foles.


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## buttersd70 (12/1/09)

foles said:


> G'day all,
> 
> Just bottled my first all grain BIAB. Have the following concerns:
> 
> ...


foles
1/ the higher mash will easilily account for slightly higher fg. if its finished, its finished. It's better to let the beer clear as much as possible prior to bottling, but it should flock in the bottle anyway. Just means you will have more sediment.
2/ afaik, its not unusual for sugar syrup to have a slight tinge to it....but what the hell would I know, I'm colour blind. :lol: Honestly, though, when I make a heavy stock syrup with plain sugar, it is noticable. A chef or a scientist might correct me....but I think it's due to slight caramalisation due to heat. Dont worry. (unless it looked like a pee sample...that just ain't right.)
3/ mmm. Hopefully it was only on the outside, and no spores got in. No point stressing, can't do much now. It will probably be OK. But if you get condensation buildup in the fridge, it might pay to put some silica packs, baking soda, or wotnot in there to help with moisture (the fridge, that is, not the beer - obviously).
4/ There are several different things referred to as pink, so not sure which you're referring to....lots (and lots) of threads about different cleaners/sanatisers, and everyone has an opinion. 
5/ sounds excessive. Heres a tip for you....firstly, bulk prime. Then, instead of fitting the bottler to the tap, and lifting each of the bottles to it, line all your bottles up in front of the fermenter in rank and file. Put a sanatised racking tube onto the tap, and put the bottler on that. Then just go from one bottle to the next.....saves a lot of time.


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## wambesi (12/1/09)

I've never boiled my priming sugar, I simply boil the jug and pour 200mL or so onto the sugar to dissolve it then add to bottling bucket, rack the beer into it and then bottle using the tubing and little bottler.
Also what actually took the most time when bottling?
Even when it comes to washing bottles I don't spend too much time, straight after drinking I rinse out a few times and if lucky it may go into the dishwasher if there is room otherwise it goes into the garage waiting for next bottling.
Just before bottling it gets a shot of no rinse sanitiser and drained before filling.

I wouldn't worry too much about the mold unless it was on the inside, see how it goes.

For cleaning I mostly use hot water and if I add anything it's usually napisan (cheap unscented brand), maybe some bleach.
Well rinsed afterwards then before use I use Iodophor.

The three hours is too long, I did about the same yesterday, maybe an hour all up including prep time the actual bottling only took about 20mins.


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## eamonnfoley (12/1/09)

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah I must have caramelised my priming sugar a bit - did actually look a bit like urine. See how it goes.
I think the mould may have came from the fact I sprayed some iodophor into the fridge a few times during fermentation. Won't be doing that again! 
Most of the 3 hours was setting up, cleaning equipment and bottles. The bottling bit only took half an hour. Will have to speed up the process. Was very hot last night so that may have had something to do with it. I may have gone over the top with sanitation.

I just hope it turns out ok. I guess a beer at 1014 should be ok if its fully fermented?


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## HoppingMad (12/1/09)

If you're factoring sterilising/washing bottles into your 'bottling time' and are being thorough then I would say that 3 hours is what it sometimes takes me.

Mind you, I bottle a fair few stubbies, which adds to the time and don't bulk prime. Like the other guys have said bulk priming will definately wipe a lot of time out - possibly an hour - Far less sugar scooping/carbonation drop dropping!

Hopper.


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## Bribie G (12/1/09)

Bottled a lagerAle (kit n partial) brew last night, it took me 35 mins including sanitizing and rinsing the bottles (They get sanitized twice, once on going into the bottle 'store' and a second brief chlorine plus three rinses each on bottling day just in case I had missed one).

Then I line up the 12 two litre PET bottles, three CSR sugar lumps in each one for a 'lager' or two for an English Bitter.
Sanitised racking cane
Fill the bottles

The actual filling probably took about ten minutes.

Not everybody's cup of tea but it's been working fine for me since May last year. Also I now BIAB UK bitters which I plan to drink at 2 - 4 weeks so for me it's like a little mini-beer cask system producing an endless golden stream of drinkies with minimum effort. :beerbang: 
I've recently done a modification and now bottle a few 750 coopers PET as well, as I'll be going into local comps.


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## boingk (12/1/09)

My bottling routine is usually around 2hrs max at a sedate pace; washing, single-priming and capping stubbies. I find priming isn't an issue, I use a container of sugar and one of those little scoop thingies and it wouldn't take me longer than 5 minutes to prime the whole batch. Probably half that if I' solely using longnecks.

Congrats on the first AG anyway!

Cheers - boingk


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## Bribie G (12/1/09)

Yup, sorry got a bit wrapped up in myself above, I should have said welcome to the wonderful world of BIAB ... If you have any questions re BIAB give me a yell. 
Cheers.


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## enoch (12/1/09)

foles said:


> Yeah I must have caramelised my priming sugar a bit - did actually look a bit like urine. See how it goes.


The hint of yellow you see is because they don't purify it completely.
In crystals you don't see it but in strongish solutions you do.


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## eamonnfoley (12/1/09)

BribieG said:


> Yup, sorry got a bit wrapped up in myself above, I should have said welcome to the wonderful world of BIAB ... If you have any questions re BIAB give me a yell.
> Cheers.




Cheers, no worries, good to be onboard. My only real hitch with the BIAB process itself was hitting the right strike temp. It looked like it didn't change at all when I added the grain, and I ended up too high by 2-3C. Am thinking of planning for no change in temperature next time, given the large mass of water in in the BIAB mash.

To be honest, i really need a good batch to get my spirits up. Had 5 extract+grain batches in a row that were undrinkable in my apartment, before I moved to my new place where I am now brewing outdoors. Think I had some kind of airborne bug in the apartment, as I exhausted everything and still got the same twang in my beer that only appeared after bottling (and got worse with age). If I get it this time I will have to take a bottle to an expert to find out what the taste/smell actually is. I keep thinking its oxidation, but then convince myself that it isn't. It could also have been the water in the apartment because it tasted a little strange out of the taps and I was using it for cleaning/rinsing etc. I'm starting to worry now that it was Chlorine and/or Sanitiser (previously used coopers bottle wash, sodium met, and now "Pink Neo Chlorinated Tri-sodium Phosphate").

Will see how it goes this time - better water, brewing outdoors, bull batch boil etc. Fingers crossed.


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## eamonnfoley (17/1/09)

Just sampled a bottle after a week in the bottle. Completely deteriorated. Poor colour - no healthy brightness, bitter, no flavour. It was tasting good during fermentation, hoppy and flavoursome. I've brewed 5 extract and now 1 BIAB, and only one of the extract batches was drinkable, but then deteriorated over time. It is very disheartening. Have tried everything and don't know what is causing this infection. It isnt a serious infection, because on only 1 batch did I have some gushers. It seems to creep up after bottling and ruin the flavour of the beer. A few theories:

1) Spigot - I soak them in bleach etc, but maybe its not getting the crap out. I always cant help but think that taking samples during fermentation is a risk. I've just taken them apart and scrubbed them with a brush. Hoping that will help.
2) Rinsing water. Is this is really a serious problem? It must be damn near impossible to keep it off your brewing gear. For example the inside of hoses.
3) Airborne nasties. I'm in a new house for this most recent batch so I've ruled that out.
4) Fermenter lid. Maybe nasties are getting stuck behind the seal and creeping into the beer. Only now have a taken the seal out to clean the lid properly so maybe that will help.

Might try fermenting my next batch in a glass carboy - but then I won't be able to test the FG.

Sort of thing that drives you to drink - but no homebrew to drink - bit of a no win!


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## bradsbrew (17/1/09)

Is it the container your bulk priming in?? And have you been rinsing the bottles after sterilising/sanitising? i cant see how it would be the fermenter if it is fine up until bottling.

Cheers Brad


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## Effect (17/1/09)

3 Hours???

That is a bit long mate. But it was your first time, so that is expected that you take some time to get the hang of it all.

My first time took well over an hour.

I bottled 20 litres of stout this morning, took about 30 mins, including sanitising and cleaning up afterwards.

Once you get your rhythm going, you will cut that 3 hours down to 1 and then 1 hour down to 45min etc. - like all things


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## Gavo (17/1/09)

I generally just plod along with bottling, I do bulk prime, I bottle in stubbies, I use a no rinse sanitizer, I clean my bottles by rinsing after emptying them and drain ready for bottling day/night (usually after putting the kids to bed). Bottling takes around an hour. Get a system and the bottling time will shorten.
I had a little mould on the outside of the fermenter once, on the rim just outside the seal. It was during a time in a cupboard with ice bottles, so the humidity was up. During the next brew I noticed that I had a habit of resting my arms on the rim of the fermenter while adding water and stirring. I since have stopped that habit and the issue has never returned.

Congrats in the AG.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## fergi (17/1/09)

foles, dont mean to be too critical but from what you are saying, your method and sanitation really sounds like it is quite sloppy..get back to basics with the hygiene , pull all the rubber seals out after each brew and clean everything really well, even wash the outside of your fermenter, airlock,tap, bottling wand,"EVERYTHING",FOR THE SAKE OF AN EXTRA TEN MINUTES YOU WILL HAVE A LOT LESS HASSLES AND BAD TASTES IN YOUR BEER.
cheers

fergi


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## wambesi (18/1/09)

foles, as mentioned above I think you probably need to get sorted out on a few of the more basic but very important aspects of brewing.


foles said:


> 1) Spigot - I soak them in bleach etc, but maybe its not getting the crap out. I always cant help but think that taking samples during fermentation is a risk. I've just taken them apart and scrubbed them with a brush. Hoping that will help.


You mean the tap, I take readings all the time and after I spray no rinse sanitiser (or sometimes just water) at and in it to clean out any wort/beer sticking behind. I have not soaked anything in bleach in a long time but do pull apart the taps for cleaning.



foles said:


> 2) Rinsing water. Is this is really a serious problem? It must be damn near impossible to keep it off your brewing gear. For example the inside of hoses.


What exactly do you mean by rinsing water? After all racking tubes etc have been used I stick them under the tap and run hot water through them to clean the insides, or do you mean garden hoses spraying/cleaning stuff?
If that's the case I wouldn't advise it myself as you don't know whats living/been crawling down garden hoses. Just my opinion.



foles said:


> 4) Fermenter lid. Maybe nasties are getting stuck behind the seal and creeping into the beer. Only now have a taken the seal out to clean the lid properly so maybe that will help.


YES! Always remove the o-ring, give it a good clean and use a toothbrush on the thread in the lid. Then store them apart until either dry or your ready to brew again. Just before I ferment I spray it all down with no rinse sanitiser then put it all back together again.
I didn't pull one of mine out for a while, and when I eventually did I found mold growing :blink: A quick clean, some bleach and it was all back working again.



foles said:


> Might try fermenting my next batch in a glass carboy - but then I won't be able to test the FG.


You could, but I'd knuckle down on the cleaning and sanitizing first and see how that goes. 
I sometimes think I am being slack with my cleaning regime, but after a while you get to know your system and the best ways to look after it, for example I now almost don't use any cleaners etc but hot water, after that maybe a quick sanitise and let dry. Stubborn stains/deposits maybe.

Lastly are there any other brewers nearby? I'm sure if there is someone on the forum with some more experience lives nearby they wouldn't mind helping out, coming around and helping/watching your routine and give some tips and advice.
Also could taste some of these beers and maybe pinpoint the problem.

Don't give up though, find out what it is and get it sorted.

EDIT: Speeling


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