# British Bitter Theory



## locost (21/7/05)

Can the collective run through the theory behind formulating a sound British Bitter.

I know Marris Otter is the preferred malt, and keep the crystal below 5%, and use a pedigreed liquid yeast.

Are there any other parameters to keep in mind?


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## Gough (21/7/05)

An obvious one (sorry...) is to use British hops as well. In my recent experience using plugs in the boil for flavour and aroma made a pleasant difference to pellets which I've previously used. Fresher flavour and aroma in my opinion. I used Target pellets for bitterness and EKG plugs at 15 mins and flameout, but there are obviously a lot of other varieties to choose from. Northdown is planned in combo with EKG for my next version...

Good luck,

Shawn.


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## locost (21/7/05)

How did I forget hops?

I usually go for Challenger for bittering and EKG to finish.


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## MAH (21/7/05)

locost said:


> Can the collective run through the theory behind formulating a sound British Bitter.



Tough question, because Bitter is an extremely broad style, with debatable sub-catergories. The upside of this, is that the breadth of style allows you to experiment quite a bit.



locost said:


> I know Marris Otter is the preferred malt



Yes and no. My personal view is that it's not so much the barley variety, but more the quality of the maltings. Thomas Fawcett make a great ale malt using Maris Otter, but I reckon it's the process of floor malting that really adds to the character more than the MO. Powells in Melbourne also floor malt and they make very nice ale malt.



locost said:


> keep the crystal below 5%



Yep. But you can play around with the types of crystal. I like to use between 2%-3% Wyermann CaraAroma, plus a little extra Fawcett's crystal. Some would say the use of a German malt is out of style, but I like the extra complexity from a darker crystal. Also it adds a very nice colour to the beer, but it ends up on the darker end of the spectrum.



locost said:


> Are there any other parameters to keep in mind?



The obvious parameter in a Bitter is that the beer should be just that, bitter. Aim for a BU:GU of about 0.8 eg if your OG is 1.035 aim for about 28IBUs (28/35=0.8, or 35x0.8=28). I've made bitters at the low end of the IBU range and found them bland.

I personally only use Fuggle or Golding in my English ales, but the hops you use is a matter of preference. I like to use 50/50 Fuggle/Golding, with additions at 60/30/15/0. The flame out addition should be quite generous.

Many receipes use torrefied wheat, but I'd give it a miss. It adds nothing to the malt profile and the supposed benefits of head retention are not really an issue for Bitters.

If making an Ordinary Bitter, use a very flavourfull yeast and ferment at the top of the yeast's range to get extra flavour in the beer.

Don't bother with extended conditioning and drink them young and fresh.

There's loads more, but these are just a few of my personal expereinces.

Cheers
MAH


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## warrenlw63 (21/7/05)

And for extra authenticity don't forget to serve warmish and flattish. Cold kills these beers. YMMV.

Warren -


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## Wreck (21/7/05)

To achieve the desired IBUs, do you add more hops at the 60 minute mark, or a shit load of hops toward the end? 

Am I right in saying you would get the same IBU, but the flavour would be very different.

What sort of balance do you aim for?

Thanks,
Wreck.


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## warrenlw63 (21/7/05)

I usually go 60 mins. 15 mins and strikeout.

High AAU hop like target for 60 mins. Goldings and/or it's equivalents for the 15 min and strikeout.

There's no set rules to how you do it really.

Warren -


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## neonmeate (21/7/05)

agreed about the plugs, ive been trying them out for the last few batches and they do have an edge in flavour.

i usually go maris otter + fawcetts crystal + a bit of something else for character like 100g of amber malt, or some freshly toasted malt. also a bit of raw sugar or demerara goes nicely.

i beg to differ with MAH i think the barley variety does make a difference - fawcetts maris otter has a lot more in common flavourwise with bairds maris otter(which is not floormalted) than with fawcetts golden promise (which is). maris otter gives a beautiful clean bready aftertaste that other malts just can't deliver IMO

anyways the beauty with this style is you can drink it within 2 weeks of brewday so it's not like a bock where you have to wait 6 months to figure out whether you got it right. have at it


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## Sean (21/7/05)

I'd agree with most of the above, especially what MAH had to say.

While Maris Otter does give an tiny effect, it isn't particularly a "correct" effect. Only a small number of UK breweries use Maris Otter, and there is no particular correlation between it's use and the quality of the bittersproduced by the brewery. Having used the malt from 3 different floor maltings (Fawcetts Maris Otter, Powells and Edwin Tuckers) I would definitely agree that floor malting makes more difference, but Powells or any English malt is fine.

Crystal can easily go to 10%. 5% is pretty much the average once you exclude those getting colour from elsewhere, not the maximum.

Stick to UK hops or very close derivatives such as Styrian Goldings or Willamette (very commonly used instead of Fuggles by English breweries these days, because it is more consistant). Unless you want to accent one particular variety, use a selection (2 or 3). Very few of the best Bitters use a single variety.

Choose your yeast carefully (although Coopers does a pretty good job - well within the style).

Consider including some sugar.

Keep it simple. 

Serve relatively fresh, not excessively gassed, and no colder than 10C.


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## Malnourished (24/7/05)

locost said:


> Are there any other parameters to keep in mind?
> [post="67995"][/post]​



Hmmm... I'm surprised nobody has mentioned water treatment, though I guess it depends on your water source.
I reckon the addition of CaSO4 and MgSO4 has made a major difference for my bitters.
I like to dry-hop (not too much though) in the keg too.

What are people's favourite yeasts for a bitter? I'm getting a bit bored with Wy1028...


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## warrenlw63 (24/7/05)

Malnourished,

My fave is Wyeast 1968. If you're feeling adventurous you could try the notorious 1187 Ringwood Ale. Haven't used it. However I've heard it's a bit of a beast to handle and not for the feint-hearted. If used correctly it's supposed to leave some pretty unusual esters and a fair whack of diacetyl.

Perfect. 

Warren -


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## Sean (24/7/05)

Malnourished said:


> locost said:
> 
> 
> > Are there any other parameters to keep in mind?
> ...


Quite right - forgot to mention water treatment.

Yeast wise, I've settled on Coopers (bottle), but Wyeast Thames Valley I like.

I want to give Ringwood a shot at some point - it certainly scores full points for character (based on Ringwood Brewery beers).


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## Malnourished (24/7/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> My fave is Wyeast 1968. If you're feeling adventurous you could try the notorious 1187 Ringwood Ale. Haven't used it. However I've heard it's a bit of a beast to handle and not for the feint-hearted. If used correctly it's supposed to leave some pretty unusual esters and a fair whack of diacetyl.[post="68308"][/post]​



Ah yes, 1968. I've been meaning to try that for quite a while now. Thanks Warren.

Dunno if I've got the guts (and patience) for Ringwood.


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## Snow (27/7/05)

All good advice, above. For my 2c worth, I have found that I get better hop complexity with more than 3 additions. I have had very good success with additions at 90, 60, 20, 0 and dry hop. the 90 and 60 are usually Target or Northern Brewer pellets, and the later additions work best with EKG plugs.

In Brisbane (kind of soft water) Water treatment works best with Gypsum and epsom salts.

As for yeast, I've only used WLP013 with great results.

Cheers - Snow


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## colinw (27/7/05)

My best results have been with a grain bill of about 89% Maris Otter, 7% flaked maize and 3.5% English 55L crystal and 0.5% English chocolate malt. I'm starting to play with caramelization of a couple of litres of first runnings in an attempt to capture that toffee caramel character and darken the beer further.

I vary mash temperature a bit depending on which yeast. A beer made with a less attenuative yeast like 1968 I'd mash at 66, but if I'm using Danstar Nottingham I'll mash at more like 67.5.

If using Aussie malts, I haven't liked the results from using entirely JW Traditional Ale malt as the base malt - it seems a little heavy and nutty in character, but a 50/50 blend of JW Traditional Ale Malt and JW Export Pilsner malt has produced superb results.

As far as water goes, my best results with Brisbane water have had 1 to 2 grams of Gypsum and 0.25g of Epsom Salts per 10 litres of water, which gives a nice sulphate crispness to the beer without going over the top with full Burtonization. Without the sulphates I struggled to get any pale ale or bitter right with our low sulphate water here (aside: but Brisbane water makes GREAT brown ales).

As far as hops goes, my best English best bitters and pale ales have either been EKG all the way in at least 4 additions (60, 30, 15 and 2 minutes) then dry hops if you feel like it but I generally don't, or with a mix of Northern Brewer for bittering then combined Northern Brewer and EKG at 30 with EKG the rest of the way. I feel that the beers where I used EKG plugs were slightly better than the ones made with pellets - the hops character just seemed to come out more like the commercial beers like Blacksheep Ale that I've tried. The 30 minute addition seems to be critical in adding the right peppery hops flavour, without it the beer seems lacking.

Yeast - two favourites - Wyeast 1968 and good old Danstar Nottingham dried yeast. I don't care for Safale S04 at all, too tart and too much diacetyl. One big batch which I shared with a friend was split between Nottingham and Windsor. Both were great beers, with my half (Nottingham) quite dry and hoppy with subtle esters and his half (Windsor) maltier and bready with a fruity character which was delicious, and a more floral hops aroma which seemed to work very well with the fruity esters. This is a case of YMMV - there are so many great English yeasts around that everyone will have their own personal favourite.

For bitterness, I try to keep the IBUs at about 0.75 of gravity in points, eg about 34 IBUs in a 1.045 beer.

cheers,
Colin


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## Guest Lurker (27/7/05)

colinw said:


> My best results have been with a grain bill of about 89% Maris Otter, 7% flaked maize and 3.5% English 55L crystal and 0.5% English chocolate malt.
> 
> For bitterness, I try to keep the IBUs at about 0.75 of gravity in points, eg about 34 IBUs in a 1.045 beer.
> 
> ...



A very informative post in a pretty useful thread. Very similar to the grain bill and hopping schedule I have ended up with after a few bitters. Although if using maize and if drinking young I will go below .75 on the bittering. Next batch I plan to come down a bit from 7% maize and maybe up a bit from .75 ratio for a slightly bigger bitter. 

Only other thing is I have started fermenting bitters at about 22 degrees to get a bit more fruit and have quite liked the results.


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## colinw (27/7/05)

Guest Lurker said:


> Only other thing is I have started fermenting bitters at about 22 degrees to get a bit more fruit and have quite liked the results.


I've run Nottingham as high as 21C and liked the results. It seems to be almost lager-like if you ferment it below 18C, but keeps going right down into the mid teens.

I liked the Windsor half of that split batch so much that I'm pondering doing a batch with two yeasts - both Nottingham and Windsor together to get the fruit & bread of the Windsor with the bone dry finish of the Nottingham.

The fastest I've gone "grain to brain" was 6 days from brewing to tapping the keg - these beers mature fast and are drinkable right from the start. When kegged and tapped that young the main effect on flavour was a bit of graininess which went in a week or so, and some perceptible diacetyl which also faded out.

cheers,
Colin


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## Asher (27/7/05)

I've just kegged a bitter using WYeasts 'Thames Valley Ale' this beer got away from me slightly and fermented the first day and a half at 24deg... Strangely its taken on a real Belgian/banana ester flavour - could nearly pass as a wit at the moment :blink:
Will see if it mellows in the next week or two....

It did have 3% melanoidin in it, though I doubt this will have any huge effect on flavour...

Asher for now


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## colinw (27/7/05)

I once had a runaway to about 25C with Safale S-04. The beer ended up with a pronounced flavour of apricots. Not unpleasant once you got used to it.


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## jayse (24/9/05)

Just reading through some old threads half cut at 8 in the morning.
Theres some fabulous 'bitter' addvice here. I do generally use the JWM trad throughout and mash higher than it seems most do, I also love to use a few grains of choc for some extra colour.
If I do mash lower I'am in the same camp as some others which have said they go down below .75.
I don't using any maize in mine no reason to go into why 

Watching the show 'heartbeat' is about as close I have ever got to seeing the real thing  . I have brought every botttled version I can find in adel and I have to agree with what MAH said the style is so broad that it just doesn't fit into the simple 3-4 sub groups that are commonly refered to by brewers. I find some that have the same malty flavour and aroma as you'd expect from a dark german munich malt.
Anyway the style is so broad i just call it ale or beer and pretty much look at as a open slate or blank canvas if you like. For instance anyone who posted here that they used cascadingtons in it would be drawn and quartered or discomunicated but really make it how you like, don't be affraid to brew outside the square or as I like to look at it the square is much bigger than some brewers percieve it to be.

Of course if your brewing to please a style nazi than don't even read any of my addvice, everyone else here has given plenty of real addvice iam just rambling.

fairly tales, thats all she ever thinks about
Jayse


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## MAH (26/9/05)

Hi Jayse

I've started to rethink the way I make Bitters. Mainly in regards to the mash schedule. After talking a bit with TDH, I've increased my mash temps and my OG and hopefully will also have a higher FG, but the same ABV. Hopefully the higher FG will give a maltier flavour.

Cheers
MAH


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## Gough (26/9/05)

G'day MAH,

What is the FG you are shooting for? Just out of interest I recently brewed 2 'Best Bitters' with very similar malt bills but fermented with different yeasts. Same ferm temps and volume of wort, and same starter size. The 1272 saw my fg finish at 1008 and the version using the 1968 ESB yeast saw it finish at 1012 - a pretty substantial difference. The version made with the 1272 was a lovely beer that is now almost all gone, and the 1968 version with the higher FG hit the bottle on Saturday, but also tasted great at that stage. Much maltier profile though. You are convinced the higher FG is preferable? Both these beers were bigger than the 'ordinary' bitter profile, but not in the 'ESB' category - high 1040s OG. Mash temp was 67 for both.

Shawn.


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## warrenlw63 (26/9/05)

Small hint and I will welcome all ridicule and flame-throwers.  

Small amount of (British) Amber Malt will enhance the perception of "perceived maltiness" in a Bitter. I think it's linked to what people describe as "nutty or biscuity". Other than that ditto what Shawn and MAH say. Higher mash temps and/or less attenuative yeast strains will do wonders.

Never hurts to lower your IBUs a little too. Bitter is it's name, however overly-bitter is not. I prefer more late hopping to initial hopping. In other words I try and hang around the 35 IBU mark for an average 1.045+ Bitter.

Just experiment. Half the fun. :beerbang: 

Warren -


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## MAH (26/9/05)

Aiming for an FG around 1.015. When I was talking to TDH he said that for a number of their beers at Grumpys, they start with a higher OG, mash higher and aim for higher FG. He said that as homebrewers we are free to do this because we don't have accountants looking over our shoulders, so using more malt is not a problem. I haven't put it to the test yet, apart from Saturday's brew. 

Cheers
MAH


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## neonmeate (26/9/05)

i just did an ESB/brit IPA type thing with WLP002 and it finished at 1020 starting at 1066. that's what i call a high FG! i mashed at 65 and only used 250g crystal. but the rest was maris otter and 600g munich so that might account for the lower attenuation. still, even with that level of hops the sweetness is pretty dominant. i think with this yeast I might try using a bit of sugar, or adjuncts next time to lighten it up a bit.

by the way can anyone recommend a british yeast that flocculates as well as WLP002 but has better attenuation? and more interesting esters?


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## Duff (26/9/05)

neonmeate said:


> i just did an ESB/brit IPA type thing with WLP002 and it finished at 1020 starting at 1066. that's what i call a high FG! i mashed at 65 and only used 250g crystal. but the rest was maris otter and 600g munich so that might account for the lower attenuation. still, even with that level of hops the sweetness is pretty dominant. i think with this yeast I might try using a bit of sugar, or adjuncts next time to lighten it up a bit.
> 
> by the way can anyone recommend a british yeast that flocculates as well as WLP002 but has better attenuation? and more interesting esters?
> [post="79476"][/post]​



I have the same problem with WLP002 in my bitters, just can't seem to get it low enough. 005 is an excellent versatile yeast, but in future I might try the 006 or even the new 026 release, as all seem to have higher attenuation according to the Whitelabs blog.


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## Ross (26/9/05)

neonmeate said:


> i just did an ESB/brit IPA type thing with WLP002 and it finished at 1020 starting at 1066. that's what i call a high FG! i mashed at 65 and only used 250g crystal. but the rest was maris otter and 600g munich so that might account for the lower attenuation. still, even with that level of hops the sweetness is pretty dominant. i think with this yeast I might try using a bit of sugar, or adjuncts next time to lighten it up a bit.
> 
> by the way can anyone recommend a british yeast that flocculates as well as WLP002 but has better attenuation? and more interesting esters?
> [post="79476"][/post]​



London Ale III 1318 would be my choice - It's a lovely yeast & has what you're looking for...


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## jayse (26/9/05)

Same here MAH, I look to get around 1.015, another bonus to that is you can chuck in even more hops!
With TDH's biggles i found the latest batch with the less attenuation is extremely good and a classic example of how I like it.

I agree with ross there also 1318 seems to me to be one of the 'fruitier' yeasts, a top floccer too. Iam not a huge fan of it myself but the fruitiness is nice if thats what your after.

Anyway iam off to brew up one right now, not overly happy with the latest EKG pellets i have though, they seem to be lacking quite a bit in some departs and quite perfume like.

happy mashing high
Jayse


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## colinw (26/9/05)

I haven't been entirely happy with the flavour and aroma of the beers I've made with EKG pellets lately. There seems to be a "cheap perfume" character which is quite different to the earthy/peppery/spicy aroma of the beers I desire to brew. In comparison, the last time I used EKG plugs I managed to get quite close.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that EKG all the way doesn't quite do what I want, and a more assertively flavoured bittering hop like Target, Challenger or Northern Brewer provides a robustness to the flavour which is more to my taste.

cheers,
Colin


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## MAH (26/9/05)

Hi Colin

I usually do a 50/50 mix of Fuggle and Golding. I really like the results with this approach. If I do a single hop brew it's usually Fuggle, however on Saturday I used 100% Golding (plugs).

Cheers
MAH


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## Ross (26/9/05)

colinw said:


> I'm also coming to the conclusion that EKG all the way doesn't quite do what I want, and a more assertively flavoured bittering hop like Target, Challenger or Northern Brewer provides a robustness to the flavour which is more to my taste.
> 
> cheers,
> Colin
> [post="79489"][/post]​



I have to agree Colin - I bought 2 kg of EKG plugs & did a couple of just EKG brews, definately lacked the robustness I like...


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## warrenlw63 (26/9/05)

Just don't resort to Progress. Yuck! :blink: 

Big thumbs up to Challenger and Northdown. Both nice hops. Target also. Though it's a bit out-there as an aroma hop.

Warren -


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## Ross (26/9/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> Just don't resort to Progress. Yuck! :blink:
> 
> Big thumbs up to Challenger and Northdown. Both nice hops. Target also. Though it's a bit out-there as an aroma hop.
> 
> ...



Warren, I made an all progress ale - To say it was interesting is an understatement :blink:


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## warrenlw63 (26/9/05)

Ross.

Did you get some of that big "vegetal" character too? :unsure: I found that it took months to mellow out. Once that tang went beer was OK. Not great though.

Warren -


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## Bilph (26/9/05)

colinw said:


> I'm also coming to the conclusion that EKG all the way doesn't quite do what I want, and a more assertively flavoured bittering hop like Target, Challenger or Northern Brewer provides a robustness to the flavour which is more to my taste.
> 
> [post="79489"][/post]​



Funny old world isn't it?
I'm going back the other way and using less Target etc and more Fuggles and Goldings for bittering.
I'm a bit like MAH, I tend to have both Fuggles and Goldings together. Nicer balance than just Goldings IMHO.


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## Ross (26/9/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> Ross.
> 
> Did you get some of that big "vegetal" character too? :unsure: I found that it took months to mellow out. Once that tang went beer was OK. Not great though.
> 
> ...



It's a real strange one Warren - made with a lot of crystal as well - was undrinkable at first - now tastes like "turkish delight" chocolate.... :blink:


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## neonmeate (26/9/05)

i agree with colin the goldings plugs are much spicier than the pellets. nice old speckled hen-adnams sort of flavour, peppery and earthy.

thanks for sugggesting 1318, i did do a few beers with that last year, i liked it, but it doesn't clear quite as well as WLP002. i'm thinkin i might have to give 1099 a go next, apparently it's a good flocculator although possibly sort of boring flavourwise.


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## roach (26/9/05)

neonmeate said:


> ... i'm thinkin i might have to give 1099 a go next, apparently it's a good flocculator although possibly sort of boring flavourwise.
> [post="79530"][/post]​



if you are going for 1099, then may as well use safale s-04 which is equally as boring, but drops out with a bang. also less hassle with the dried stuff if unprepared.


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## Sean (26/9/05)

Ross said:


> warrenlw63 said:
> 
> 
> > Ross.
> ...


I've got a strong (6%) dark mild in the fridge brewed from Progess, and it's shaping up very nicely.

I presume "Turkish Delight" means rose flavour - I've had that in a couple of UK brewpub beers made with extreme levels of Goldings.


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## Sean (26/9/05)

Bilph said:


> colinw said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also coming to the conclusion that EKG all the way doesn't quite do what I want, and a more assertively flavoured bittering hop like Target, Challenger or Northern Brewer provides a robustness to the flavour which is more to my taste.
> ...


Very few classic English Bitters use a single hop variety - the vast majority use two or three. Single variety beers are a relatively new thing (though, of course, there are exceptions). Even just using Pride of Ringwood for bitterness and traditional hop for aroma works well.


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