# "bad" Beer Ingredients



## pimpsqueak (16/11/11)

I know there are a whole lot of things you _could_ put in your beer,but just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
I'm planning a Christmas ale for next year and was thinking about putting a Christmas cake in the mash. 
What's the go with putting stuff like eggs, milk and margarine/butter in the mash? Are there certain key foodstuffs that will completely ruin the beer?


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## Yob (16/11/11)

you _*are*_ joking right?

:blink:


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## Nick JD (16/11/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Are there certain key foodstuffs that will completely ruin the beer?



Yup - a cake. 

How about just putting the significant flavour aspects of an Xmas cake in - like the fruit and spices? Leave out the things that shouldn't be in beer, like fat. Xmas cakes are GREASY.

EDIT: some of that disgusting fake almond essence should emulate that revolting marzipan perfectly. Not sure how you could get those little silver balls that crack ya teeth in your beer.


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## seamad (16/11/11)

I was going to try bconnery ' s christmoose ale the thread on it has an all grain version


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## pimpsqueak (16/11/11)

iamozziyob said:


> you _*are*_ joking right?
> 
> :blink:


Hell no.

At the Castle Hill comp, one of the specialty beers was a Christmas ale that had a whole Christmas cake in the mash and it scored really well.




Nick JD said:


> Yup - a cake.
> 
> How about just putting the significant flavour aspects of an Xmas cake in - like the fruit and spices? Leave out the things that shouldn't be in beer, like fat. Xmas cakes are GREASY.
> 
> EDIT: some of that disgusting fake almond essence should emulate that revolting marzipan perfectly. Not sure how you could get those little silver balls that crack ya teeth in your beer.



Yeah, that's my plan B. Use the key ingredients, might give the little plastic reindeer a miss though.


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## peaky (16/11/11)

I was thinking about putting chips and dip in the mash for my case swap beer. Then I wouldn't need to bring any nibbles to the party....


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## Muscovy_333 (16/11/11)

Other cultures dump all sorts of animals in their rice wine to bring courage, fertility or strength. 
I was thinking the Aussie version could be putting a red haired (courage) bogan child (fertility) with 10kg DME (for strength) in my next Brew. 
Can't possibly take this thread seriously!

Any other suggestions?


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## pimpsqueak (16/11/11)

What about adding a fistful of panadol to ward off any potential headaches the following morning?


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## pimpsqueak (16/11/11)

Muscovy said:


> Other cultures dump all sorts of animals in their rice wine to bring courage, fertility or strength.
> I was thinking the Aussie version could be putting a red haired (courage) bogan child (fertility) with 10kg DME (for strength) in my next Brew.
> Can't possibly take this thread seriously!
> 
> Any other suggestions?



Sure you can take this thread seriously. 
Dogfish Head made their Egyptian ale with the help of a whole stack of loaves of bread. Anyone can go to coles, buy a loaf or 3 of bread and throw it in the mash. But there are all sorts of variations of ingredients in different loaves. 
I can make bread at home in my breadmaker, but I usually have some olive oil in there. Is olive oil bad for the beer or not?


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## peaky (16/11/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> What about adding a fistful of panadol to ward off any potential headaches the following morning?



I kinda like this idea


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## Muscovy_333 (16/11/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Sure you can take this thread seriously.
> Dogfish Head made their Egyptian ale with the help of a whole stack of loaves of bread. Anyone can go to coles, buy a loaf or 3 of bread and throw it in the mash. But there are all sorts of variations of ingredients in different loaves.
> I can make bread at home in my breadmaker, but I usually have some olive oil in there. Is olive oil bad for the beer or not?




IMHO, any "oils or fats" would be prone to oxidation...speculation on my part..but i'm still having trouble with the concept. 
I'll leave this one for the experts!


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## Wimmig (16/11/11)

There are countless things people do with beers. I wouldn't say anything is a "bad" idea, just maybe not the "best" idea. I have all intention once this watermelon passionfruit wheat is done to go a xmas beer. And a whole small xmas cake will be in the mash no question.


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## JDW81 (16/11/11)

Nick JD said:


> Yup - a cake.
> 
> How about just putting the significant flavour aspects of an Xmas cake in - like the fruit and spices? Leave out the things that shouldn't be in beer, like fat. Xmas cakes are GREASY.
> 
> EDIT: some of that disgusting fake almond essence should emulate that revolting marzipan perfectly. Not sure how you could get those little silver balls that crack ya teeth in your beer.



I've made a couple of spiced ciders for christmas with the same spices I used in my christmas pudding which worked beatifully. I'd be interested to know how a christmas ale turns out using those spices (or a whole cake). 

I'm very intrieged.


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## the_new_darren (16/11/11)

Surely this thread is going down the path of "i put a cock in mee ale"

Oh sorry, OP posted cake

tnd

EDIT: If you are realy going to do that (cock/cake ale) then make a very small batch as it is only christmas once a year


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## Fat Bastard (16/11/11)

the_new_darren said:


> Surely this thread is going down the path of "i put a cock in mee ale"
> 
> Oh sorry, OP posted cake
> 
> ...



Seeing as I was the last one to make a post about cock ale, it'll come as no surprise that I'm thinking about doing a christmassy stout for next year using some of the fruit mix from the christmas puddings. I've got some left over from 2 years ago soaked in Inner Circle OP Rum that I was going to use in some mince tarts, but using it in beer seems more interesting somehow. No flour, eggs or butter involved though.


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## drtomc (16/11/11)

the_new_darren said:


> EDIT: If you are realy going to do that (cock/cake ale) then make a very small batch as it is only christmas once a year



Don't you put your cock in my ale, even a small Christmas batch!

Actually, I have a spare cock.

We got some chick that they hatched at kinder - 2 out of 3 look like being cocks. No eggs from them, so if anyone wants one to put in their ale....

T.


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## the_new_darren (16/11/11)

drtomc said:


> Don't you put your cock in my ale, even a small Christmas batch!
> 
> Actually, I have a spare cock.
> 
> ...




Hey Dr Tom C.

Are you sure? 

tnd


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## Da Bear (16/11/11)

I say go for it, didn't that Mountain Goat, Moon Dog and Matilda Bay collab have Waffles in? And that was a damn tasty brew.

Why would you do it? Because you can.
Who needs another reason?


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## the_new_darren (16/11/11)

I guess because the next day waffles in beer doesnt really taste all that good?

tnd


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## Bribie G (16/11/11)

the_new_darren said:


> yap yap yap yap yap yap yap


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## CONNOR BREWARE (16/11/11)

Fat Bastard said:


> Seeing as I was the last one to make a post about cock ale, it'll come as no surprise that I'm thinking about doing a christmassy stout for next year using some of the fruit mix from the christmas puddings. I've got some left over from 2 years ago soaked in Inner Circle OP Rum that I was going to use in some mince tarts, but using it in beer seems more interesting somehow. No flour, eggs or butter involved though.




so a few likely tarts in you ale then? sounds better than cock but may be a up to an individuate brewers preference


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## the_new_darren (16/11/11)

Quote Bibe

"OOh, I brought 200 plastic buckets but I evidently realised that all I needed wash one and a small piece of slotted copper tubing and a pot, I hate Ross for sending me down this path, what a waste of time and effort"


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## IainMcLean (16/11/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Sure you can take this thread seriously.
> Dogfish Head made their Egyptian ale with the help of a whole stack of loaves of bread. Anyone can go to coles, buy a loaf or 3 of bread and throw it in the mash. But there are all sorts of variations of ingredients in different loaves.
> I can make bread at home in my breadmaker, but I usually have some olive oil in there. Is olive oil bad for the beer or not?



I recall reading somewhere that this was the first recorded 'beer'. Soaking bread to get the sugars out and fermenting it. The same article also said man stopped being hunter/gatherers not to farm for food but to farm to be able to make bread to make beer! :lol:


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## the_new_darren (16/11/11)

Iain McLean said:


> I recall reading somewhere that this was the first recorded 'beer'. Soaking bread to get the sugars out and fermenting it. The same article also said man stopped being hunter/gatherers not to farm for food but to farm to be able to make bread to make beer! :lol:




Does that mean we can just guy bread and ferment it for beer? What about the hops? After all they are the most "exclusive" and expensive ingregients in beer?

Perhaps "raisins and rum" can suffice?

tnd


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## mje1980 (17/11/11)

Fat Bastard said:


> Seeing as I was the last one to make a post about cock ale, it'll come as no surprise that I'm thinking about doing a christmassy stout for next year using some of the fruit mix from the christmas puddings. I've got some left over from 2 years ago soaked in Inner Circle OP Rum that I was going to use in some mince tarts, but using it in beer seems more interesting somehow. No flour, eggs or butter involved though.




I made a UK strong ale 8% cara aroma among other things. Plenty of christmas cake goodness.


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## IainMcLean (17/11/11)

Two years back I did an experiment - made a christmas porter. I soaked dried fruit in a 50/50 mix of fresh orange juice and brandy for a week before tossing the fruit into the boil. The boil also had a bit of cinnamon and a couple of cloves in it. 

A few days before bottling I boiled the juice/brandy and tossed it into the fermenter.

The result was interesting - a really good malt tasting beer, albeit with no head but with an aftertaste of xmas pudding! It needed a couple of months minimum to condition though...


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## RetsamHsam (17/11/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> What about adding a fistful of panadol to ward off any potential headaches the following morning?



:lol: Paracetamale....


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## craigo (17/11/11)

beechworth brewery did a breakfast beer and added rasin bread tea teabags and a whole lot other stuff to the mash.


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## bum (17/11/11)

Mikkeller Beer Geek Brunch Weasel takes the biscuit for weird ingredients, for my money. Won't even try the stuff.


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## wobbly (17/11/11)

Get Heston Bulmenthal on the job. The weid cheif/owner of the Fat Duck restaraunt in the UK 

If he can come up with a Christmas dinner that includes *Fankincense and Myrrh * then I'm sure it would be just a doddel in the park for him to come up with a Christmas flavoured beer

Cheers

Wobbly


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## pimpsqueak (17/11/11)

RetsamHsam said:


> :lol: Paracetamale....



Genius. :super:


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## Silo Ted (17/11/11)

the_new_darren said:


> I hate Ross



You cant do that ! he's the beer Pope and should be revered by all !


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## Swinging Beef (17/11/11)

Meh... I put a kilo of red skins lollies in a 5kg mash brew, and it got dranked in 4 hours once fermented and kegged.
The oils and weird things all seem to disipate in the boil or stay on the surface, to you just leave them behind when you run off.
Egg in the mash would not really be any more of a problem than the other eggs that are already in there, laid by creepy crawlies.
Thats why you mash and boil.

I say give it a go


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## Thefatdoghead (17/11/11)

There is a really nice recipe in Gordon Strong's book if you have it, He uses spruce tips (fresh) for an hr in the boil. I want to make it but fucked if I can find me some fresh spruce! Need at least 2 quarts (just loose in a jar) for a double batch.


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## Silo Ted (17/11/11)

I added 13 freshly plucked pubic hairs to the boil last weekend, for a beer I intend to serve at xmas. 

No, Im not kidding. 

It honestly wont make ANY discernible difference to the flavour, but as symbolic motivation it makes me happy.


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## ledgenko (17/11/11)

I am thinking he maybe onto something here ... next up a Kebab in the mash ... along with a Meatlovers Pizza .. so you dont get the munchies after a session  

Avoid the Ranga kid or a wombat .. me thinks it would lead to too many questions about the aroma ...


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## Silo Ted (17/11/11)

For next years comp season I'm adding three tabs of LSD to each of my bottle entries.


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## Yob (17/11/11)

Silo Ted said:


> I added 13 freshly plucked pubic hairs to the boil last weekend, for a beer I intend to serve at xmas.
> 
> No, Im not kidding.
> 
> It honestly wont make ANY discernible difference to the flavour, but as symbolic motivation it makes me happy.



this ones a special for the inlaws?


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## IainMcLean (17/11/11)

Silo Ted said:


> For next years comp season I'm adding three tabs of LSD to each of my bottle entries.



I'm sitting my BJCP exam then.... :lol:


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## Silo Ted (17/11/11)

iamozziyob said:


> this ones a special for the inlaws?



no, for them I 'pound' the turkey for a few minutes before cooking. These private little gestures give me great pleasure, and are of no harm to anyone. (I dont ejaculate into the bird)


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## Bribie G (17/11/11)

I once made an aldi-ale with oats, cornflakes, brown sugar and base malt plus a shitload of Caraaroma and some chinese Cluster hops - Turned out great, but got me too pissed compared to my usual breakfast ale. 





Maybe some orange juice or cranberries in the next batch for a bit of nutritional balance.


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## sinkas (17/11/11)

I dont brew any beer with atleast 2 christmas caskes in the mash, and a pack o gravox

seriously, just throw shoe shit in there, itll be fine, if its not then dont do it again


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## sim (17/11/11)

In Randy Mosher's "radical brewing" book he's got an old old english recipe in their where they add a mix of raw eggs and other stuff into the ferment. I actually think eggs in the mash would do nothing, except effect your efficiency downward if they went in raw. 

As for xmas cake, i once dissolved a tin o goop into the water that a xmas pudd was boiled in and fermented that. it was foul.

but hell, give it a whirl ...or just use some ingredients that give the impression of xmas cake, avoid oils, and avoid flour/starch unless its being mashed.


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## Thirsty Boy (17/11/11)

maybe just answering the question and leaving it up to the brewer to decide if its a great idea or not?

bad - the only thing i can think of in a cake that might be actually bad for your brew is the fats/oils that people have mentioned already. They have the potential to wreck your head retention and perhaps to make the beer one that wont keep so well. Will they "certainly" do those things? No. but they might sp be aware.

as for the rest - whats in a xmas cake?

Flour - starch, no problem
Fruit - Lots of fruit beers out there, no problem
Booze - oh no... not more booze.
Sugar - obviously no problem
eggs - mostly protien, of which there is plenty in a mash already. no problem.
spices - outlandish... whoeverr heard of a beer with spices in it? no problem.

I think you'd actually get a better result by trying to brew a beer that tastes like xmas cake than you would by actually putting in a cake - but will the ingredients hurt the beer? is it "bad"? - beyond maybe killing your head off, not really.

it might taste like crap though.


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## petesbrew (17/11/11)

I'm interested to read the grainbill & what yeast Pimpsqueak is using.
As long as it's a big belgian, I can see it worth giving a go.
...for shits n giggles I say!


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## pimpsqueak (17/11/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> maybe just answering the question and leaving it up to the brewer to decide if its a great idea or not?
> 
> bad - the only thing i can think of in a cake that might be actually bad for your brew is the fats/oils that people have mentioned already. They have the potential to wreck your head retention and perhaps to make the beer one that wont keep so well. Will they "certainly" do those things? No. but they might sp be aware.
> 
> ...


Cheers TB. It was the oils/fats and the egg that I was mostly curious about. Looks like I will go ahead with it then.




petesbrew said:


> I'm interested to read the grainbill & what yeast Pimpsqueak is using.
> As long as it's a big belgian, I can see it worth giving a go.
> ...for shits n giggles I say!



That's exactly where I was going with it. Nice boozy, spicy Belgian of some sort.
After reading about the length of time some people soak their fruit in preparation for making the cake (6 months out or more), I'm going to start the fruit soaking tonight and dredge this thread up in May/June when I brew it.


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## Fat Bastard (15/12/11)

Is anybody thinking of actually having a crack at a christmas pudding beer?

We've been very late in making the puddings this year, and I'm thinking of saving the water they've been boiled with, cooling over night and skimming the oils off the top the next day, and using it as strike water for a sweet imperial porter. Give it a taste after the mash, and if necessary add some more fruitmix (the 'special' stuff I've had marinating in Inner Circle OP for 2 years) late in the boil and maybe the fermenter?

I have no idea how it will turn out, so I'm making up a grain bill out of leftovers I have, plus some Pacific Gem and WLP002. Aiming for about 9%ABV and 12 months bottle conditioning.


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## Dave70 (16/12/11)

POR hops.

And 'love'.
It causes protein haze.


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## blakie21 (16/12/11)

Nothing too kerrrazy here. I used about 200g of milo in my choc stout because I was too lazy to go back out to the shops after forgetting cocoa. I figured it was malt.. and chocolate.. why the hell not?

Actually turned out great!


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## pimpsqueak (18/6/12)

petesbrew said:


> I'm interested to read the grainbill & what yeast Pimpsqueak is using.
> As long as it's a big belgian, I can see it worth giving a go.
> ...for shits n giggles I say!



Finally got around to brewing this last night.

Pilsner Malt - (Dingemans) 5800 grams
Special B Malt - (Dingemans) 350 grams
Caramunich I Malt (Weyermann) 470 grams
Munich I Malt (Weyermann) 850 grams
Acidulated Malt (Weyermann) 160 grams
Xmas fruit mix + figs, soaked in brandy, port and muscat since November: 300g

Hops : Galaxy to 22ibu (60min)
Mashed at 66 for an hour, ramp to 78 for 10 mins.

I have been having some major efficiency issues since I moved, so I had a bash at twiddling the water chemistry.
Budgeting an efficiency of 65% I ended up at 87%. Salts FTW!!!
Going to be a bit boozy for a dubbel, but it's a Xmas ale anyway, so who cares.

Going to rev up some 3787 and see how it goes...


Edit: oops, left the spices off the list...
1/2 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp allspice
1/4 tap cinnamon
All in at flameout.

I'll also be adding the remaining 300g of fruit mix to the secondary. I'm now undecided on the use of candi sugar :-|


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## DUANNE (18/6/12)

bum said:


> Mikkeller Beer Geek Brunch Weasel takes the biscuit for weird ingredients, for my money. Won't even try the stuff.




you dont know what youre missing out on, that is an exceptional beer. for me the chicha on the dogfish head show is one i just couldnt bring myself to drink.


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## bum (18/6/12)

It may very well be the best beer made from ingredients that have passed through the digestive tract of a living creature but I will never know.


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