# Acid additions to water



## Bonenose (14/11/17)

Hi all,

Have ventured into the world of water treatment a few brews ago and was wondering about acid additions. Is there any guidelines on what acid to use for mash and what to use for sparge water. Have been using lactic for mash water and citric or phosphoric, now that I have some, for sparge water. Using lactic for mash as I believe I read somewhere it occurs naturally in grain to a certain degree anyway. Then using citric or phosphoric simply to limit the amount of lactic I am using. Would welcome any feedback on preference or if there is anything I need to be aware of here.

Cheers


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## manticle (14/11/17)

Phosphoric and/or lactic are my preferred.
Hopefully you don't need so much of either that the flavour is detectable. Working out how much though depends entirely on mash pH, water pH and mineral content.

You should get a report from local water authority or get an analysis if using tank/etc. If using RO, treat minerals as minimal and just measure mash and water pH. Then use brun, ez or similar, or work out yourself using formulae. Calcium and magnesium salt additions will affect pH too.


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## Bonenose (14/11/17)

Using brewers friend water calculator for quantities etc. and luckily have a water resources test bore a couple hundred meters from mine so no worries with water reports. Was just curious if it made any difference what acid I use for what. Most I have used is 4.5ml of lactic in mash so I presume these are not huge quantities.


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## manticle (14/11/17)

Your palate will ultimately be your guide. Get mash pH and calcium levels right, flavour salts as appropriate and sparge water to <6 with either acid. See how you like the results.


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## nosco (14/11/17)

JZ on the Brew Strong podcast said that lactic is like fruit juice and phosphoric is like soft drink in flavour. I havnt tested that theory myself so I cant confirm.


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## Coodgee (14/11/17)

nosco said:


> JZ on the Brew Strong podcast said that lactic is like fruit juice and phosphoric is like soft drink in flavour. I havnt tested that theory myself so I cant confirm.



really that's interesting. I quite like the 4 pines summer ale for it's soft-drink-like refreshing mouthfeel and flavour. I have been wondering how to create that in my beer. maybe I should switch from lactic to phosphoric and give it a go.


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## Dave70 (14/11/17)

Acidulated malt?


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## Coodgee (14/11/17)

Dave70 said:


> Acidulated malt?


that's just essentially lactic acid though right?


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## manticle (14/11/17)

And it's a bit weird in sparge water


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## rude (14/11/17)

Acid malt is good in the mash though
R/O water for the sparge then you don't need to treat it


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## Jack of all biers (14/11/17)

Bonenose said:


> Then using citric or phosphoric simply to limit the amount of lactic I am using. Would welcome any feedback on preference or if there is anything I need to be aware of here.



There is lots you should be aware of. I suggest educate yourself about it first hand. First go to the free source at Brun water to learn some of the basics. Then when you can afford $23.47 for a book delivered to you door, buy the Water book by Palmer/Kaminski and you won't be disappointed. It will explain the advantages and disadvantages and why Phosphoric 'can' reduce calcium, but also why it doesn't if you use if properly. It sounds like you are on the right track, so for very little, but for a bit of light reading, you can get the benefit of some research and experience from some of the most respected minds in brewing (AJ deLange for starts).


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## Bonenose (15/11/17)

Cheers, will check it out


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## mabrungard (23/11/17)

Any of those acids can be used for brewing. However if your water has elevated alkalinity, then the acceptability of those acids varies. In essence, citric and lactic acid are more readily tasted in the finished beer when they are dosed at high rates. Phosphoric is the least tastable. In order of taste effects, its citric, lactic, and then phosphoric (most tastable to least tastable). Citric acid has largely fallen out of brewing use since you can't use much of it before its affecting your beer flavor.


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## peteru (30/11/17)

Could citric acid be actually an appropriate choice for some beers? For example, if you are trying to get that grapefruit twist into your beer, like Elvis Juice. Or for a NEIPA to get more of that "juice" flavour.


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## Jack of all biers (1/12/17)

peteru said:


> Could citric acid be actually an appropriate choice for some beers? For example, if you are trying to get that grapefruit twist into your beer, like Elvis Juice. Or for a NEIPA to get more of that "juice" flavour.


According to Palmer/Kaminski - Yes. They specifically say that the fruity/ester perceptions citric contributes to the beer may benefit certain styles, such as Belgian Wit. I would be careful about getting anywhere near the 150ppm taste threshold and given that there could be anywhere from 50-250ppm already present from malting and fermentation byproducts, then it starts to become guesswork as to what amount of citric acid will tip the citrate levels into flavour overload.

EDIT - The source of those figures is the same as at Bru'n water, Briggs et al 1981


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## mabrungard (2/12/17)

Yes, citric acid can be suited to some brewing where its flavor notes may add to the overall beer perceptions. The information on potential alternative acids in the Water book was authored by me. Its parroted in the Water Knowledge page of the Bru'n Water website.


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