# Low Alc, Strong Flavour Recipe Needed



## wbosher (5/11/12)

Hi guys,

It may go without saying, as I'm posting on this forum, but I like beer. I especially like great tasting, hoppy beer, as opposed to bland commercial shit. That's why I'm doing home brew. 

I would like be able to drink a few beers a night, enjoying the great flavour, without getting pissed or feeling dodgy the next morning. Most of my favourite beers are quite high alc like IPAs.

Does any one have a recipe for a BIAB type brew, that tastes like an IPA (or any strong hoppy ale) but with only about 3% alcohol?

I've found a couple of suggestions using kit beers, but not AG.


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## mje1980 (5/11/12)

You could do a midstrength american wheat. 40% wheat, the rest pils, then hop it with your fave US hops. Not stupidly though. Or a US blonde, kind of similar, simple grain bill, maybe 5% light crystal, some wheat, then base malt, and again, hop it with your fave US hops, but not stupidly. I prefer the american wheat kind, they drink really easy, but i think you could get away with dropping it down to 3.5% or so.


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## Bribie G (5/11/12)

I won a few gongs with a mild that came out around 3.6% and I bet you could apply the same principle to a hoppier ale. 
Basically you design a 5% beer then mash it at 71 and use a poorly attenuating yeast such as Ringwood so that the fermentation starts at say 1049 stops at around 1022.
You have to be very careful to hit your strike temp spot on, and don't let it stray into the 60s. I did that once and ended up with a 4% plus beer that I couldn't enter (we had to reveal our starting and finishing gravities on the entry form).

The beer ends up with a lot of malty flavour and body_ *and no it isn't sweet*_. The idea that dextrins make a beer sweet is ballocks, sort of kittens/airlocks urban myth stuff that has crept onto not just this forum. 

Chris White in the Yeast book strays into mashing and knocks that idea firmly in the head, quoting some highly attenuated beers that still have malty sweetness. 
Coincidentally I'm doing Xmas brewing right now and thinking of doing a Whale Ale along Mje's lines above but mash at 69 so it doesn't cause family brawls when the rellies descend on us 

(Edit: won gongs not the entire comps)


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## wbosher (5/11/12)

So I'd set the strike temp at around the 74-75ish, and mash at 71.

Does it need to stay at that temp for the entire 90 minutes? I read somewhere that the first 20-30 minutes or so of the mash are the most important, after that it doesn't matter so much if the temp drops a little low.


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## Nick JD (5/11/12)

wbosher said:


> So I'd set the strike temp at around the 74-75ish, and mash at 71.
> 
> Does it need to stay at that temp for the entire 90 minutes? I read somewhere that the first 20-30 minutes or so of the mash are the most important, after that it doesn't matter so much if the temp drops a little low.



At 71C your mash would be done in 30 minutes.


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## lagers44 (5/11/12)

Try this , CraftBrewer recipe it's off CraftBrewer website. I haven't tried it yet but am planning to give it a go very soon.


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## wbosher (5/11/12)

lagers44 said:


> Try this , CraftBrewer recipe it's off CraftBrewer website. I haven't tried it yet but am planning to give it a go very soon.



Wow, that's one hell of a lot of ingredients! I've only done one AG brew so trying to keep it pretty simple at this stage, but does look like it would be worth a go when I've got a few more brews under my belt.


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## drsmurto (5/11/12)

Unashamed plug for one of my house beers - Light Amber Ale

I have a 10L batch of this ccing at the moment with ~130g of homegrown cascade flowers added late. 

Plenty of malt and hop character.

I've brewed this with a range of malt, hops and yeast. Current favourite is munich, rye, carabohemian and choc rye with whatever punchy hops i have on hand. Windsor or Ringwood are key - you want the FG to finish above 1.010, preferably closer to 1.020.


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## stakka82 (5/11/12)

I just finished a keg of what you could call a 'mini ipa' - it went down really well.

Pilsner 85%
Wheat 5%
Dark Crystal 5%

Mashed at 68-69c

OG around 1038-40 from memory
FG around 1012

Columbus at 30 and 10 mins to 40 IBU

Dry hop with 1g/l columbus.

Nice fuller body, the dark crystal gives it a bit of depth of malt flavour, just enough to balance the bitterness/hop flavour in such a small beer. 

I used US-05. Alc/vol was around 3.7-3.8%.


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## NewtownClown (5/11/12)

stakka82 said:


> I just finished a keg of what you could call a 'mini ipa' - it went down really well.
> 
> Pilsner 85%
> Wheat 5%
> ...



Missing 5% fermentables...


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## seamad (5/11/12)

Explains why it is a mini ipa


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## Bribie G (5/11/12)

Nick JD said:


> At 71C your mash would be done in 30 minutes.


I learned my "mild" skills from Butters the clit man  and he mashed high until an iodine test showed no starches left, which was usually a lot less than an hour.


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## bum (5/11/12)

wbosher said:


> Wow, that's one hell of a lot of ingredients! I've only done one AG brew so trying to keep it pretty simple at this stage, but does look like it would be worth a go when I've got a few more brews under my belt.


I haven't brewed it (nor am I about to) so I'm not going to recommend that you do but have a look at the recipe again. All the grains go in at once so it is no more complex than pretty much any other recipe in respect to process. There's only 2 kettle hop additions (15 min and 5) which is much less complicated than many recipes. The only thing that might throw you would be the hop steep but that isn't hard and there's only a single addition for that too (20 min) - it's just like making a cup of tea. The process for that recipe is not complicated.


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## Markbeer (5/11/12)

Hi

I have always wondered does a shorter mash affect attenuation as well?

Or is everything just converted and that is it???

Also I have found a thinner mash leads to greater attenuation in my beers, mashing at 71* thin still yields good attenuation.

Mark



Bribie G said:


> I learned my "mild" skills from Butters the clit man  and he mashed high until an iodine test showed no starches left, which was usually a lot less than an hour.


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## wbosher (5/11/12)

bum said:


> I haven't brewed it (nor am I about to) so I'm not going to recommend that you do but have a look at the recipe again. All the grains go in at once so it is no more complex than pretty much any other recipe in respect to process. There's only 2 kettle hop additions (15 min and 5) which is much less complicated than many recipes. The only thing that might throw you would be the hop steep but that isn't hard and there's only a single addition for that too (20 min) - it's just like making a cup of tea. The process for that recipe is not complicated.



You're right, there isn't much to do here really. But the sheer number of ingredients threw me a little, especially the different types of hops. I've been mainly looking at recipes with one or two types.

I've just done this:

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.850
Total Hops (g): 60.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (P): 13.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.21 %
Colour (SRM): 10.3 (EBC): 20.3
Bitterness (IBU): 38.9 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
4.600 kg Pale Ale Malt (94.85%)
0.250 kg Crystal 105 (5.15%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
15.0 g Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
30.0 g Cascade Pellet (7.8% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (1.5 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 18C with Safale US-05



While it didn't go _exactly_ to plan, I think it'll be ok. I might try doing the same one again with a few small tweaks in my methods, and also mash at the higher temperature. Then I can compare the two.

What ya reckon?


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## bum (5/11/12)

Sounds like a good way to dial your system in and get a handle on process.


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## jbirbeck (5/11/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Unashamed plug for one of my house beers - Light Amber Ale
> 
> I have a 10L batch of this ccing at the moment with ~130g of homegrown cascade flowers added late.
> 
> ...



FG finishing abov 1010 is key IMHO as Smurto has said. there are few ways to achieve that. Use of the right spec malts to get the mouthfeel right and the right malt, Smurto's recipe using Munich as the base is a good one too. The big failing of smaller beers is they taste 'thin'.

I've used aMunich base and a good dose of spec with a high mash temp to go 1037ish to 1016ish an support a good dose of late hops without the late hop astringency.


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## stakka82 (5/11/12)

> Missing 5% fermentables...



sorry, that should be 90% pils


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## timmi9191 (6/11/12)

Try doc yard glass session light in the recipe database. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=507
I did this extract style as follows:Amber lme 1.5kgLdme .25kgDry wheat me .25kgDextrose .25 kgMaltodex .1kg  10 g magnum and cascade "@ 15mins  15g magnum and cascade @ 5mins Love it. Wouldn't know it's a mid strength!!


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## Impy (6/11/12)

wbosher said:


> Wow, that's one hell of a lot of ingredients! I've only done one AG brew so trying to keep it pretty simple at this stage, but does look like it would be worth a go when I've got a few more brews under my belt.



Yeah I think that recipe is taking the piss a bit. Keep it simple I say.

I did a bit of research on low ABV beers and came up with the below recipe.

I 've yet to taste the results, although into the fermenter it smelled amazing. It's mainly Cascade and Chinook.. the Galaxy is just because I had some dregs in the freezer I wanted to use.

1kg Light DME
300g Crystal Malt
300g Cara Pills

12g Chinook @ 60
10g Galaxy @ 20
20g Cascade @ 20
10G Chinook @ 5
20g Cascade @ 5

Est IBU: 37
Est ABV: 2.7%


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## wbosher (12/11/12)

Nick JD said:


> At 71C your mash would be done in 30 minutes.



I almost forgot about this thread. :lol: 

So I would set the strike temp at around the 74-75ish, and mash at 71. Once 71 is reached, do I just cover it up and wrap as I did last time, or stir the grains trying to maintain the 71 mark for 30 minutes.

Sorry if these questions seem silly, just that I don't want to go into the 60s as per this



> You have to be very careful to hit your strike temp spot on, and don't let it stray into the 60s.



or would it really matter if it went to 68 or 69?


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## Bribie G (12/11/12)

Very high 60s should be fine - I was a bit paranoid about temps with my competition brews, but for a drinkin' brew it wouldn't make a huge lot of difference. And another suggestion as above - which had slipped my mind - would be to use a lot of crystals such as caramalt, carapils etc to give body and flavour without alcoholic strength. The way that crystals are produced, the sugars in them are not convertible to more simple sugars in the mash - they are "stable", still can't get my head round the idea but the more chemical minded on the forum could explain why. 

A couple of years ago I was at a Weyermann lecture and the guys says that up to 30% Carapils can be used in a mash to make a midstrength beer, there are some in Europe apparently who do this. Or maybe the guy was just trying to hype up their product B)


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## wbosher (12/11/12)

Thanks mate, I'll give the higher mash temp a shot.  

Even if I can get it around the 4% mark I'll be happy. Just don't want all my beers up around the 5-6% (or higher) mark, but want a good strong flavour.


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## Baulko Brewer (12/11/12)

Try Tonys Bullshead Summer Saison

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1307

3.6 alcohol, hop it as much as you feel comfortable


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## C-MOR (16/11/12)

Afternoon All
Ive found the info in this thread very interesting. so much so im going to give some things a try tomorrow.
My recipe is looking like this.

thoughts feelings comments

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.25
Total Hops (g): 80.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.050
Final Gravity (FG): ???
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): ????
Colour (EBC): 28
Bitterness (IBU): 40
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Vienna
1.000 kg Carapils
0.250 kg Crystal 275

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Worrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
10.0 g Columbus Pellet (14% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
10.0 g Worrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) 
10.0 g Columbus Pellet (14% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) 
10.0 g Worrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) 
10.0 g Columbus Pellet (14% Alpha) @ 1 Minutes (Boil) 
10.0 g Worrior Pellet (16% Alpha) @ 1 Minutes (Boil)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 71C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 18C with 1272 American II


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## Impy (20/11/12)

Impy said:


> 1kg Light DME
> 300g Crystal Malt
> 300g Cara Pills
> 
> ...



Just a quick update, I've tasted my above brew about 10days after bottling and it's effing awesome! Low on body, obviously, but it's not off putting. Great hop aroma and taste. Great head.

The only thing I would do differently is that I didn't cold crash before bottling. There is a strong haze that could have been eliminated/reduced with a few days at 3-4C.


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## Mardoo (20/11/12)

Definitely worth listening to the BrewStrong segment on session beers. There's some good information there about developing recipes with low gravity and full flavor. Here's a link. You can listen to it online or download an mp3 from the Brewing Network site:

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/688


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## seamad (20/11/12)

Baulko Brewer said:


> Try Tonys Bullshead Summer Saison
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1307
> 
> 3.6 alcohol, hop it as much as you feel comfortable




This beer will end up @ 4.7% as saison yeasts will eat all and sundry, will finish @ 1002 ( 1004 at highest in my experience)
In BS2 saisons are the only beers I've done so far that it gets it so wrong with the FG.
Great beers but not light.
cheers
sean


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## C-MOR (3/12/12)

This beer was mashed @ 70 and went in to the fermenter @ 1048 and came out at 1020 for a whopping 3.6% ABV
More importantly I am LOVING drinking this beer. 
I recommend this approach to anyone who wants body, flavour and low ABV
sub 1 kg base malt for carapils and mash high
The beer is not sweet but does have a tactile mouthfeel like a sweet beer. you couldn't call it dry,

I will be doing this beer again shortly with JW ale in leiu of Vienna and Caramalt in lieu dark crystal. also will mix in some B-saaz. 

will report back

ps yes i know i spelled warrior wrong, no my wife didn't write this post





C-MOR said:


> Afternoon All
> Ive found the info in this thread very interesting. so much so im going to give some things a try tomorrow.
> My recipe is looking like this.
> 
> ...


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## bum (3/12/12)

C-MOR said:


> no my wife didn't write this post


Ha!

Awesome news about the beer - although I reckon it'd be pretty damned hard to build a dud beer with those ingredients. Nice work.


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## wbosher (11/4/13)

I finally got around to trying this. I brewed an APA which I have done in the past, but this time mashed at a higher temp.

5kg Pale malt
0.5 kg Medium Crystal
0.2 Munich
0.05 Melanoidin (love that word )
23g Cascade @60
4g Nelson Sauvin @60 (wanted to get rid of the last crumbs)
25g Cascade @20
30g Cascade @10

Didn't bother with aroma addition because I can't smell, so would be a waste of hops.

Yeast: US-05

Strike temp was about 73C, went down to 71C when I mashed in. This dropped to 70 after about 15 minutes and stayed there for the remaining 45 minutes. Stirred while raising to mashout temp of 78C then lifted the bag and drained.

Pre boil gravity was 1.042, which is pretty much bang on to what Beersmith estimated. OG was 1.055, this is ony 0.002 above the estimate. So all looking good there.

After 9 days @ 18-19 degrees looked like fermentation had finished, so took a gravity reading - 1.022!!! I was expecting a higher gravity due to the high mash temp but that way high. Even factoring the high mash temp, Beersmith estimates 1.014.

I gave it a bit of a swirl and put it back int the fridge. Will check it again tonight or tomorrow.

The temp was good, and US-05 is usually pretty reliable, is this normal for a high mash temp?

EDIT: tasted good


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## wbosher (12/4/13)

Guess I should have read C-MOR's post above mine, looks like it may be about right if that's anything to go by.  Will take another reading tonight, if no change I'll cc until next weekend. Looking forward to this one.


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## wbosher (13/4/13)

Checked it again, still on about 1.022. Going to cc it now and see how we go.


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