# What Is Best Way To Reduce Sediment



## Sydneybrewer (9/2/10)

hey guys,

i have been brewing for a few months now and have been experimenting with grains etc and i am now one purchase away from my first biab all grain brew, but there is one recurring problem with all my beers since i started using grain and switched to us-05 yeast (tragic apa fan here) is sediment in my bottles! it seems to have got a lot worse of late and comes out very cloudy when it is time to bottle and i am left with almost 1cm of sediment in the bottom of a standard coopers longneck. so i guess i am asking what is the best way to reduce sediment, i was thinking of buying a filter but was wondering if that would let any yeast through to carb up the bottles? and i dont really have the fridge space to cc a whole 25l coopers fermenter, plus have tried finnings and was greatly disapointed left 24hrs with finings in and and only a dif that i can notice of about a mil or 2 of sediment.

please any help or suggestions welcomed. even feel free to point and laugh lol.

cheers.

p.s not sure if its in the right thread but i figure this seems like the help section


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## thanme (9/2/10)

Hi Syndeybrewer,

I've probably been brewing as long as you, and here's what I do. I also don't have a lot of room in my conditioning fridge, so I grabbed one of those 20L Willow jerry cans from Bunnings, and after fermentation has finished, I rack to that, leave it in the fridge for a day or 2, add finings, leave for at least 2 more days, then you're away. Bottle carbing can take a little longer, as there's less yeast to do the job, but it'll help!


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## Frag_Dog (9/2/10)

Do you transfer to secondary? I find that if I transfer to secondary and add finnings alot of the yeast drops out and I only end up with a thin layer of yeast in the bottles.

Chilling is probibly the best way but....


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## Bribie G (9/2/10)

Yes US -05 is a great little yeast but can be hard to clear compared to others.

I brew AG and my Method, with any yeast:

Ferment in primary for around 10 days in the case of an ale.
Rack to a 23 litre Willow Cube along with a dose of gelatine finings, and cold crash for another 10 days
Two days before kegging or bottling add Polyclar to reduce chill haze.

Keg or bottle.

The beer may appear crystal clear on bottling and you wonder how it is ever going to carb up, but it does - it does :icon_cheers: 

The so called 20L Willow cube actually holds 23 litres when full and makes a perfect cold conditioning tank.





You should end up with minimal sediment. edit: NME beat me to it


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## stm (9/2/10)

The simplest extra thing you can do is just leave it for longer in the fermenter. How long are you leaving it before bottling now? Try going to at least two weeks, and maybe up to three.


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## Sydneybrewer (9/2/10)

thanks guys looks like i am off to bunnings then


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## Sydneybrewer (9/2/10)

oh and yes i do have a secondary fermenter atm and have tried transfering off the yeast cake etc the only problem was though that it is another coopers fermenter that i got off a mate that gave up on brewing therefor i couldnt put that in the fridge either


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## Screwtop (9/2/10)

stm said:


> The simplest extra thing you can do is just leave it for longer in the fermenter. How long are you leaving it before bottling now? Try going to at least two weeks, and maybe up to three.




Good advice!!

Different yeast strains require different lengths of time to finish off and drop out, or you can use refrigeration.

Screwy


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## shmick (9/2/10)

With US-05 try 3 wks in primary
No secondary
No finings
No chilling
Use second fermentor to bulk prime
Wait a couple of wks for bottles to carb up and the sediment to settle out


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## glaab (9/2/10)

I use us05 a lot and I can hardly see anything in the bottom of my bottles unless I shake them, well under 1mm in a Coopers longneck. Everything gets 2 weeks in the primary at 18C then 22C for the last few days then straight into the keg/ bottles and always seems reasonably clear too. How long do you ferment in the primary? Maybe the problem is in the experimenting with grains department, I doubt you could get that much crud with a K&K if you tried. You doing partials or steeping specialty grains? When I starded brewing the bloke at brewcraft told me to boil the grain [caramunich] and strain into the fermenter. What have you been doing with the grain? Maybe not mashing long enough would cause this problem, do you iodine test after the mash?


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## Nick JD (9/2/10)

Is your beer clear above the sediment? If so - try decanting your bottle into a 1L cold glass pitcher and forgedaboudit leaving it in the barrels for weeks.

I'm of the opinion that the more sediment in your bottles the quicker the beer is conditioned. Get rid of most of the yeast and the poor suckas have to breed up before they can eat all those nasty flavours that make "fresh" beer not as nice as two month old beer.


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## Sydneybrewer (9/2/10)

the beer above the sediment is very clear and very tasty, and it doesnt bother me at all just had a couple of mates turn their nose up at the sight of the sediment and prefer to stick with their "extra dry" insert shiver. i the one i have had the biggest problem with was a partial mash and dry hopped all of this combined with the us-05 has left very cloudy beer, it was also in primary for 10 days, as i dont like to leave it on the cake after fermentation is complete.


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## manticle (9/2/10)

Nick JD said:


> Is your beer clear above the sediment? If so - try decanting your bottle into a 1L cold glass pitcher and forgedaboudit leaving it in the barrels for weeks.
> 
> I'm of the opinion that the more sediment in your bottles the quicker the beer is conditioned. Get rid of most of the yeast and the poor suckas have to breed up before they can eat all those nasty flavours that make "fresh" beer not as nice as two month old beer.




I completely and utterly disagree. I rack, leave in secondary a week, fine and cold condition for all my beers and get very little sediment. I bottle. The longer conditioning time results in drinkable beer very quickly in most instances so really what I'm waiting for is carbonation. In warm weather that can be as little as 3 days. 

Obviously beer dependent but beers that get better with age like my recent milk stout was still drinkable (and quite tasty) straight out of the fermenter.

@ OP: I think you've pretty much been given all the methods I know of - leave longer, rack, gelatine/isinglass and cold condition. I do all these and have very little problem with sediment. Obviously when you bottle, don't be tempted to squeeze out that last muddy 500 mL.


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## Count Vorlauf (9/2/10)

A few things you can try to clear up your beer before investing in filters:

- Kettle finings: Irish moss or equivalent. Helps precipitate out the "hot break" - proteins and hop debris in your kettle - at the end of the boil. Now that you're moving to grain brewing you'll end up with more organic goodies in the wort.

- Add lager finings like isinglass or gelatin in conjunction with transferring your beer to a secondary vessel. The secondary should preferably be a carboy or something that minimises the head space where your beer will be in contact with oxygen. Good idea getting it off the yeast, as the yeast will start to eat itself (autolysis) in the absence of fermentable sugars and skankify the beer.

- Take care when bottling that you don't draw off the trub at the bottom of the container. This might mean sacrificing a couple of litres. Consider it an offering to the beer gods.

- Find friends who aren't such godless heathens that they prefer Tooheys Dry to a well-made homebrew with a little Vitamin B in it! :icon_cheers: 




Sydneybrewer said:


> the beer above the sediment is very clear and very tasty, and it doesnt bother me at all just had a couple of mates turn their nose up at the sight of the sediment and prefer to stick with their "extra dry" insert shiver. i the one i have had the biggest problem with was a partial mash and dry hopped all of this combined with the us-05 has left very cloudy beer, it was also in primary for 10 days, as i dont like to leave it on the cake after fermentation is complete.


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## Nick JD (9/2/10)

manticle said:


> I completely and utterly disagree. I rack, leave in secondary a week, fine and cold condition for all my beers and get very little sediment. I bottle. The longer conditioning time results in drinkable beer very quickly in most instances so really what I'm waiting for is carbonation. In warm weather that can be as little as 3 days.
> 
> Obviously beer dependent but beers that get better with age like my recent milk stout was still drinkable (and quite tasty) straight out of the fermenter.
> 
> @ OP: I think you've pretty much been given all the methods I know of - leave longer, rack, gelatine/isinglass and cold condition. I do all these and have very little problem with sediment. Obviously when you bottle, don't be tempted to squeeze out that last muddy 500 mL.



There you go, Sydneybrewer - Manitcle has put us right. What you need to do is leave longer, rack, gelatine/isinglass and cold condition. 

Or just decant into another vessel. Much quicker IMHO.


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## bum (9/2/10)

How does decanting reduce the amount of sediment in his bottles? He didn't ask how to get less sediment in his glass.

Yes. There _is_ a difference.

You must ferment in a ******* sphere because you have cut every corner possible.


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## Nick JD (9/2/10)

Hey Bum - it's homebrew. It has sediment.

Decant it off and you can enjoy your beer. 

If you don't want sediment - pull your bikini out of your buttcrack and go buy some Extra Dry. 

And bum - don't be an asshole.


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## bum (9/2/10)

sydneybrewer, if you carefully drink from the bottle with a straw you can just drink the top half and throw the rest away. No need to faff about with this poofy improving-your-procedure bullshit. Don't brew smart - brew easy.


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## manticle (9/2/10)

Nick JD said:


> There you go, Sydneybrewer - Manitcle has put us right. What you need to do is leave longer, rack, gelatine/isinglass and cold condition.
> 
> Or just decant into another vessel. Much quicker IMHO.



I can disagree with you chief. No need to suggest I'm being dogmatic. Your experience counts for you right? Well mine counts for me. What sydneybrewer needs to do is read all these posts, try some stuff out for himself and see what works. Not listen to EITHER you OR me without question.

My above suggested processes were as much to do with maturation as clear beer (at least the leave and cold condition part). You said you had a theory that more sediment means ready for drinking quicker. My experience leads me to disagree. 

I don't give you shit for you corner cutting experiments like some do. I may disagree - that's life but I disagree with respect. I'd ask the same from you.

Cheers.


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## bum (9/2/10)

manticle said:


> I don't give you shit for you corner cutting experiments like some do.



You think you're better than me?!

Oh. 

Fair enough.


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## manticle (9/2/10)

I didn't mean you but I am slightly better than you* 


* in terms of general handsomeness and being able to negotiate with terrorists.


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## Brewman_ (9/2/10)

Nick JD said:


> it's homebrew. It has sediment.
> 
> Your home brew does not have to have any sediment. This depends entirely on your process, and sediment can be completely removed. I make some beers this way and it really surprises people who expect the beer to look like river water.
> 
> ...


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## jbowers (9/2/10)

Clear beer is overrated. Nearly all of my favourite commercial beers have been impossible to see through.


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## Brewman_ (9/2/10)

jbowers said:


> Clear beer is overrated. Nearly all of my favourite commercial beers have been impossible to see through.




Hey, I tend to agree.

I do know where posters are coming from with these questions though. I know I have put effort into clearing beer, improving Hop tastes, aromas, blends, use of various ,malts etc. I now find clearing beer is far less important once I have understand it and can control in how I want depending on what I am making.

Fear_n_Loath


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## jbowers (9/2/10)

To be honest, I was just stirring. Most of my favourite beers are styles that dont need to be clear. That being said, I wouldnt like to drink a murky pilsener.


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## mccuaigm (10/2/10)

BribieG said:


> The so called 20L Willow cube actually holds 23 litres when full and makes a perfect cold conditioning tank.



Hey BribieG, I've been wondering about this. So those are good for transferring a 23L batch into for secondary, brilliant!!

They have a smaller footprint than the normal round fermenter, will give me more brewing room


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## rendo (10/2/10)

Hi BribieG and others, 

These 20/23L willow containers, have me sold. 

How do you bottle out of these? There isnt a tap is there? Do you fit one? Do you transfer out and bulk prime in another vessel. I bottle, so kegging is out for me

Please enlighten me, then i will frantically rush to bunnings and buy one or six 



goldy said:


> Hey BribieG, I've been wondering about this. So those are good for transferring a 23L batch into for secondary, brilliant!!
> 
> They have a smaller footprint than the normal round fermenter, will give me more brewing room


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## manticle (10/2/10)

There's a thread, same diameter as average fermenters. Easy to fit a tap.


You can use it for no chill, secondary and even fermenting if you loosen the lid ever so slightly.


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## mccuaigm (11/2/10)

manticle said:


> You can use it for no chill, secondary and even fermenting if you loosen the lid ever so slightly.



You could probably put an airlock in the lid of that 20L container you reckon?


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## manticle (11/2/10)

You could but it's kind of pointless. The beauty of a cube with an intact lid is you can no chill in it, house in secondary for an extended period and ferment in it. I'd put a piece of glad wrap over the aperture with a rubber band, then pop the lid on. Do it up so it's just finger tight, then back it off a touch. This is what I've done several times previously (doing it again tomorrow) with no issues. If the container gets completely full you will get krausen spillage so watch the volume and make the fermentation usage yeast dependent.


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## mccuaigm (11/2/10)

Cool, thanks mate


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## rendo (12/2/10)

Just sent BribieG this PM...

anyone else like to chime in on these 20L willow containers. (well 23L). They look like they were a gift from god to aussie home brewers. Go Willow!

Hi BG,

I just bought a 20l willow container....i often rack to secondary, but i have just scored a tempmate and a fridge, so I am keen to use this vessel to cold crash...or should I just use the primary?

WOuld it be good for lagering lagers? eg 6 weeks at 4-6degrees??? 

I am brewing ale at the moment, Little creatures bright ale, will be in primary for about 10 days or 2 weeks, then I was going to xfer to this new 20L willow container and chuck it in the brew fridge to cold crash.

What degrees do you recommend? and for how long? 10 days...is longer not a good idea re:yeast?

PS...I bottle only...so i will need SOME yeast  

Also, whats your tips on cleaning the new willow container? Am excited about it....although I cant help shake the feeling that I am putting beer in what looks like a petrol container!!! haha

Sorry for the PM...but I know u have one and can help me


BribieG said:


> Yes US -05 is a great little yeast but can be hard to clear compared to others.
> 
> I brew AG and my Method, with any yeast:
> 
> ...


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## manticle (12/2/10)

rendo said:


> Just sent BribieG this PM...
> 
> anyone else like to chime in on these 20L willow containers. (well 23L). They look like they were a gift from god to aussie home brewers. Go Willow!
> 
> ...




Those containers will be fine for lagering and cold conditioning. I cold condition all my ales for around 1 week. Longer is fine. There still will be enough yeast to carb up unless you start leaving your beer in the fridge for months rather than weeks.

To clean, just rinse out straight away then give a good soak with sodium percarbonate and hot water. Overnight is best. Rinse well and use the water on the garden or to clean your bathroom or something. Then sanitise as normal before use.


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## rendo (13/2/10)

Thanks Manticle,

What temp approx do you use for cold conditioning??? 

I will read the many threads in CC here in the next few days. I have read them before, but it was a long time ago 





manticle said:


> Those containers will be fine for lagering and cold conditioning. I cold condition all my ales for around 1 week. Longer is fine. There still will be enough yeast to carb up unless you start leaving your beer in the fridge for months rather than weeks.
> 
> To clean, just rinse out straight away then give a good soak with sodium percarbonate and hot water. Overnight is best. Rinse well and use the water on the garden or to clean your bathroom or something. Then sanitise as normal before use.


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## warra48 (13/2/10)

The OP asked for the "best" way to reduce sediment.

All of the methods mentioned in the earlier posts will work and are good, but the "best" way is "time". It's also the easiest!

Opened up my first longneck yesterday of an APA brewed on 2 Jan this year. It sat at 18C for 9 days. I dry hopped it and dropped the temp to 3C for another 19 days. I bottled straight from primary on 30 Jan.

The beer is one of the clearest I've ever brewed.


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## rendo (18/2/10)

Hi Manticle,

Am going to use my new willow cube to brew the 9L grand cru brew....but...

I understand why you would put glad wrap and rubber band (i dont know how the gas escapes though?) _I am about to make the "glad wrap leap"_

But why would you put the lid back on (loosely)? 

Just trying to learn from the master  Do tell...





manticle said:


> I'd put a piece of glad wrap over the aperture with a rubber band, then pop the lid on. Do it up so it's just finger tight, then back it off a touch.


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## manticle (18/2/10)

Firstly I'm far from a master. I'm still learning and hope to be for many years.

Secondly a lot of people use glad and rubber over their fermenters (I have done as well) with no issue. Believe me the gas escapes. Plastic is oxygen permeable so it's not unfathomable that it might be carbon dioxide permeable.

The reason I like to wack the lid back on is that the lid is much more of a protective layer than plastic wrap. I mean protective from a physical point of view like when you fall over and put your hand out to stop yourself and stick your hand in or a rat visists your brewery while you're out.

To be honest, I don't really use the glad much anymore - just the lid and slightly backed off.

You could get away wih any combination - glad/rubber, glad/rubber plus lid or just lid.


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