# Correct Beer Line Length



## tonyt (17/1/11)

Hi all,

just after some opinions if i have the correct length of beer line. 

Beer has been carbonated using carbonation chart ie. 65-70kpa at approx 2c which should give me around 2.4-2.5 gas volume, so i am pretty sure it is not over carbonated. 

I seem to get a lttle too much froth when pouring,around..... 60% beer and 40% froth, tried different pouring methods etc....have had same issue with all my previous kegs as well.

Using approx 2.5m length of 6mm ID Line, tap is approx 600mm above centre of keg. Beer seems to pour at a good rate though???

appreciate some feedback


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## mxd (17/1/11)

what is the kegerator you have ?

drop the pressure down to 15 kpa, burp the keg and let us know what happens ?

Is this only the first beer pour that's bad ?

How is your pouring ability  ?

What size glass


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## DU99 (17/1/11)

> The easiest way to dispense the beer from the keg is to firstly turn on the gas and make sure the gauge is set to 100 Kpa. Then connect the gas line, with a white gas disconnect attached, to the gas valve on the keg. This is how the pubs dispense their draught beer. This pressure will ensure a smooth easy pour and no carbonation will be lost. It is extremely important to note that the beer line should be 4mm diameter and 2.4 meters long or 3.3 meters long with 5 mm line.
> 
> Apart from smooth pouring and uniform carbonation this method also means no more adjusting your regulator as you will be both carbonating and pouring at the same pressure.


from grain and grape article


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## wobblythongs (17/1/11)

I like to use this.
http://www.kegking.com.au/balancing%20your...g%20system.html


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## tonyt (17/1/11)

mxd said:


> what is the kegerator you have ?
> 
> drop the pressure down to 15 kpa, burp the keg and let us know what happens ?
> 
> ...


Hi, I have a 140 litre bar fridge with a 23 litre keg. 

Dropped pressure down to 15-20 kpa ...sure did fix the problem, but a very slow pour (well I think it is anyway it may be ok)

On old pressure, first pour was the worst but others weren't much better.

Oh, and my pouring ability? yep just that POUR!

Schooner glass size

So i am assuming from this if i leave the pressure at 15kpa the beer will slowly begin to lose gas, so i will need to have a longer beer line to slow the flow down yes?? and if so, how long?

Cheers


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## gjhansford (17/1/11)

tonyt said:


> On old pressure, first pour was the worst but others weren't much better ...



My POV is that beer foams in most of our setups because we don't chill the bits outside the freezer. The beer is cold, the beer line in the freezer/fridge is also cold but the tap is at room temperature for the first pour. And if your taps are on top of an unchilled post setup then the length of unchilled line is greater.

Cheers ...

ghhb


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## MarkBastard (17/1/11)

Is your beer line really 6mm ID? Try switching to 5mm ID good quality beer line and I reckon it'll be problem solved.


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## np1962 (17/1/11)

For 6mm ID line given all the other info you provided you will need 3.5metres. You could start a little longer and trim until right if you wanted, pain in the arse if you have barbed fittings though.
Nige


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## tonyt (17/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Is your beer line really 6mm ID? Try switching to 5mm ID good quality beer line and I reckon it'll be problem solved.



What length?


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## Amber Fluid (17/1/11)

I had similar problems and my taps are positioned about the same distance.

I had 2 issues to deal with.

1. I over gassed the beer. - my fault and soon rectified.

2. local expert told me I would have been right to cut the lines so I did. Hrrrmmm bad mistake!!
I rejoined the lines and am now running 5mm ID at about 4m (can't remember exact length now). Pouring at about 70KPA and have had no issues since.


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## MarkBastard (17/1/11)

tonyt said:


> What length?



I'd start at 2.5 meters. If it pours slow and you notice gas in the lines after a while and when you pour it sort of farts out gas at the start, then cut it shorter.

There are ideal line lengths in calculations but it's not always that easy as it depends on a lot of factors. If you are really careful when you pour and only pour into cold glasses and use bronco taps for example you can go with shorter line.

If line is too short it can be harder to pour without foaming.
If line is too long it takes longer to pour and the gas can come out of solution in the lines which can make the first pour seem very different to subsequent pours.


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## tonyt (17/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'd start at 2.5 meters. If it pours slow and you notice gas in the lines after a while and when you pour it sort of farts out gas at the start, then cut it shorter.
> 
> There are ideal line lengths in calculations but it's not always that easy as it depends on a lot of factors. If you are really careful when you pour and only pour into cold glasses and use bronco taps for example you can go with shorter line.
> 
> ...


DONE! changed to the 5mm ID line at 2.2 meters........problem solved! Thanks to all you guys, great help once again.

Cheers


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## crozdog (17/1/11)

tonyt, glad you fixed your problem. FYI there is a great article on setting up a balanced system here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=24

I made the spreadsheet at the bottom of the article.

If anyone can give me the specs of 5mm ID line eg Resistance (psi/ft or Kpa/m or Bar/m) & volume (ie ml per ft or mm/m) I'll update the workbook.

Beers Crozdog


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## whitegoose (17/1/11)

crozdog said:


> If anyone can give me the specs of 5mm ID line eg Resistance (psi/ft or Kpa/m or Bar/m) & volume (ie ml per ft or mm/m) I'll update the workbook.



http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=206570

Maybe meet halfway and say 35.5 kpa/m? 
I need this too as I am just trying to balance a new keg system with 5mm line.


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## milob40 (17/1/11)

my pouring / constant pressure never gets below 8psi (56kpa),
i try to keep it at 70kpa or 10psi otherwise beer becomes too flat in the keg , yes it's easy to pour at 3 or 4 psi 
but you need to keep it around 10psi for correct carbonation level.
i watched the barmaid(well seasoned i might add  )at the local pour and noticed that she discarded the first squirt as it came from the tap
and then placed the glass under to pour,she explained her method so i tried this at home and i gotta say this bloody works a treat.
i think it gets rid of the first few mls of "warm" beer so when it hits the glass it's cold and there is less foaming
yeah i know you might waste a pot or 2 in the drain over the contents of the keg but it wasted less than letting it foam over the glass
and into the tray, well worth it to get the right fizz in ya beer.
try it :icon_cheers:


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## np1962 (17/1/11)

crozdog said:


> tonyt, glad you fixed your problem. FYI there is a great article on setting up a balanced system here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=24
> 
> I made the spreadsheet at the bottom of the article.
> 
> ...


Croz,
Strangely enough the spreadsheet I downloaded last August has this info.
I think you may have already added it and forgot you did it.
Cheers
Nige

View attachment crozdog_balancing_table.xls.xlsx


Edit- Attached file.


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## tonyt (18/1/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Croz,
> Strangely enough the spreadsheet I downloaded last August has this info.
> I think you may have already added it and forgot you did it.
> Cheers
> ...



Hey Guys, not sure if i am imagining this, but since i have fixed the foaming issue by switching to the 5mm ID line it has fixed another thing that was annoying me. My regulator was set at 75kpa, and during a pour of 2-3 glasses it would slowly drop down approx 20 KPA before it came back up to the presert 75 KPA, which meant if i only poured say 2 beers would stay at 55-60 KPA
Since the line change it is maintaining the preset pressure.don't get me wrong, I am delighted, but why???


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## Spiesy (18/10/12)

Hey guys,

About to make the switch from pin locks to ball locks, so I thought I might as well change my lines as well. 

Now I should preface this with saying that I'm getting a pretty sweet pour at the moment... and I know, "if it ain't broke" etc... but, I have some really nice line that I bought from CraftBrewer, and I'd like to upgrade my line. 

Only thing is... in plugging in my data to the "crozdog balancing table" - I get 1.32m required. In reading KegKing's "simplified" chart, they state 2-3m and the Grain and Grape article above states 3m. Huh? There's some pretty big differences there.

If there is anyone who can shed light on: pin lock 19L kegs in a KegKing kegerator (with standard taps), using Valpar FlexMaster II (ID 5mm) line. 
PS: beer is usually around 5 degrees cold, and I mainly make US ales, but do dabble in other styles - so probably looking for 2.5-2.6 volumes.


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## Amber Fluid (18/10/12)

Not answering your question directly but, if they are the same ID and the ones you currently have are pouring "pretty sweet" (in your words) now then why don't you just cut them the same length as you have already?


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## Spiesy (18/10/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> Not answering your question directly but, if they are the same ID and the ones you currently have are pouring "pretty sweet" (in your words) now then why don't you just cut them the same length as you have already?


This is a good point. Not sure on the diameter that came with the Kegerator. But it's possibly the same, with the difficulty it is getting them onto the disconnects.

The only thing that may be a problem is that the FlexMaster line is supposed to have smoother walls, which should mean less resistance - or less turbulence, at least.


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## breakbeer (18/10/12)

Hi Spiesy,
Any particular reason you're changing from pin lock to ball lock?
Can't really help with your question sorry, I use the line that came with it & have never altered the length, perfect pour about 80% of the time


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## Amber Fluid (18/10/12)

No problem... make them about 500mm longer and trim back until it pours how you want.


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## QldKev (18/10/12)

2.4m


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## DU99 (18/10/12)

+1 2.4m :beer:


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## glenwal (18/10/12)

Spiesy said:


> I'm getting a pretty sweet pour at the moment





Spiesy said:


> I'd like to upgrade my line.


If your getting a sweet pour atm, then how is it an upgrade? Just because the new line is a brand name?

I'd be going with your own advice, or it'll never be as good as it was and you'll forever curse yourself for changing it.


Spiesy said:


> if it ain't broke" etc...


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## Spiesy (18/10/12)

breakbeer said:


> Hi Spiesy,
> Any particular reason you're changing from pin lock to ball lock?
> Can't really help with your question sorry, I use the line that came with it & have never altered the length, perfect pour about 80% of the time


Hey breakbeer,

Yeah, changing for a number of reasons - the main one being that only 2 x shorter, wider pin lock kegs will fit into the fridge, as opposed to the taller, thinner ball locks (I still have to actually try this out). The other reason is less important, but my mates use ball lock, so we can interchange kegs of beer. 

Bit of a shame really, as I like the pin lock posts - it's more the size of the kegs. I have a dual tap font, but I want to have one keg carbing up and conditioning at all times.


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## Spiesy (18/10/12)

Glen W said:


> If your getting a sweet pour atm, then how is it an upgrade? Just because the new line is a brand name?
> 
> I'd be going with your own advice, or it'll never be as good as it was and you'll forever curse yourself for changing it.


Yeah, I know... but as I said - I have better line there that I'd paid for and thought I might as well use it, and no better time than now. 

It is a dilemma though, as I'd hate to f*** it all up, and judging by the mixed replies, and mixed data I've found online - the chances are high. Maybe I'll leave it alone.

EDIT: nothing to do with the "brand name" line mate. It's just better quality line. The current lines (that were supplied by KegKing) split when the Kegerator was new - beer went everywhere, so I bought the FlexMaster with plans of replacing all the inferior line... just never got round to it.


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## breakbeer (18/10/12)

Spiesy said:


> Hey breakbeer,
> 
> Yeah, changing for a number of reasons - the main one being that only 2 x shorter, wider pin lock kegs will fit into the fridge, as opposed to the taller, thinner ball locks (I still have to actually try this out). The other reason is less important, but my mates use ball lock, so we can interchange kegs of beer.
> 
> Bit of a shame really, as I like the pin lock posts - it's more the size of the kegs. I have a dual tap font, but I want to have one keg carbing up and conditioning at all times.





aahhh, the penny drops. I was a bit pissed when I discovered I could only fit 2 kegs when they said it could fit 3 (and I've seen pictures of 3 inside). Didn't realise there was a difference in shape between the two


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## Spiesy (18/10/12)

tell me about it, mate.

actually - no need to. I'm there with you already.


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## DrJez (18/3/19)

I have a series 4 and the guy at the shop only made my beer lines 1 meter long. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, is this going to pour too fast?


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## hairydog (19/3/19)

Line length would not matter as much if the kegerator has flow control taps, but without flow control taps 2-3m would best suit,its all about
balancing your co2 pressure with keeping carbonation in the keg and flow rate through the tap so there isn't too much foam,i find too much
foam usually pours the first glass.I keep my co2 pressure at 80KPA and have Perlick flow control taps but my font is higher than a kegerator
fridge,line length around 2.5m.


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## mfroes (20/3/19)

hairydog said:


> Line length would not matter as much if the kegerator has flow control taps, but without flow control taps 2-3m would best suit,its all about
> balancing your co2 pressure with keeping carbonation in the keg and flow rate through the tap so there isn't too much foam,i find too much
> foam usually pours the first glass.I keep my co2 pressure at 80KPA and have Perlick flow control taps but my font is higher than a kegerator
> fridge,line length around 2.5m.


i have between 4-5meters of 5mm ID hose with a intertap flow control and get foam all the time. using about 12PSI. when i make a whear beer becomes unbearable cause i need to increase psi and the extra protein.


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