# "home Brew" Taste



## sgw86 (19/2/12)

Hi,

I have only been back into home brewing for a couple of months and have learnt quite a fair bit from this forum. To date I have done a Golden Ale, Blue Mountain Lager, Bacchus & Barley and a few others. Most of them have been quite good, especially the Golden Ale.

What I have found with the Blue Mountain Lager is that it has that "home brew" taste to it...I can't put my finger on exactly the taste but it just tastes home brew. I don't believe its a cidery or butterscotch taste either.

In my Blue Mountain Lager recipe it was simply just

1 x BML Can
1 x Brew Enhancer 2
12g Hallertau steeped for 10mins.

I adapted the recipe and just put down

1 x BML Can
1 x Brew Enhancer 2
1 x LDM (250g)
10g Hallertau steeped for 15mins
15g Hallertau dry hopped (Day 3)

The Golden Ale had

1 x Coopers Canadian Blonde
1KG LDM
250g Dex
20g EKG + 10g Perle (dry hopped Day 3)

What would exactly be giving it the home brew taste? All my brews are temp controlled at the appropiate temp. 17-18C constant and then conditioned for 1 week at 1C.

Is it the Brew Enhancer giving it the home brew taste? Should I be swapping out BE2 for just a 1KG LDM? 

Sorry about the long post.

Cheers,

Sam.


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## Kingbrownbrewing (19/2/12)

I would try fermenting the lager at around 10 degrees. Might change some of the flavours.


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## kelbygreen (19/2/12)

I found with kits I always had a metalic kinda taste even with all extract its there but not as much. Is this kind of what your experiencing?


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## going down a hill (19/2/12)

The kit that was giving the home brew taste might have been older than the others. I agree with Kelby, all kits have the metalic flavour which is also known as twang.


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## iralosavic (19/2/12)

Try to describe the taste. What temp do you ferment the lager at and do you know if the included yeast is an ale or lager strand? If it's a lager strand, fermenting at 18c could/will produce some off flavours. Yeasty, banana, sulphur etc


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## Yob (19/2/12)

I seem to be able to eliminate this 'twang'... The kits I lay down these days are frikkin awesome. I attribute this to several factors.

Minimal dex, which you seem to do anyway, 200-300g max, addition of grains, up to a KG of base malt, wheat malt (dry or grain, varies) and some crystal grains. More often than not they are partials.

Extended conditioning time at elevated temps. Once it gets close to FG I start to ramp up the temps, 0.5'c every few days and it is left a week to condition before cold conditioning. So ferment temp will be 17-18 and I slowly ramp to 20'c. I generally run a 3 week cycle, week 1 ferment, week 2 condition, week 3 CC

for my recent swap beer which was a Coopers APA Base with bit additions (as above) I have recieved many favorable reviews which Im quite chuffed with h34r: REVIEW

Though twang is common it can be eliminated or at least hidden with the correct treatment. 

Ditch the 'brew enhancers' IMO they are the shittest thing about kits and brews Ive done with BE's have been inferior batches to what Ive outlined above.

also how long are you leaving them in the bottle? I find that the beers greatly improve about the 2.5 - 3 month mark.

Yob


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## [email protected] (19/2/12)

iamozziyob said:


> I seem to be able to eliminate this 'twang'... The kits I lay down these days are frikkin awesome. I attribute this to several factors.
> 
> Minimal dex, which you seem to do anyway, 200-300g max, addition of grains, up to a KG of base malt, wheat malt (dry or grain, varies) and some crystal grains. More often than not they are partials.
> 
> ...



Yep was a nice beer that one. Better than my last 2 AG pale ales, not that they were crap, they just did not turn out that good. I attribute most of it from rushing the fermentation process due to low stocks. 

The fermentation technique yob has mentioned is what i have done in the past and to me makes all the difference AG kits or what ever. My current spate of impatient behaviour has resulted in me having more beer but less enjoyable beer which actually = less beer, so i will revert back to time and patience.

Patience along with attention to detail is a big player in this game...


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## sgw86 (19/2/12)

iralosavic said:


> Try to describe the taste. What temp do you ferment the lager at and do you know if the included yeast is an ale or lager strand? If it's a lager strand, fermenting at 18c could/will produce some off flavours. Yeasty, banana, sulphur etc



The yeast in the BML is a Hybrid yeast...so anything from 15-30. I ferment at 17C as 15-16C the yeast becomes very sluggish. If it's an Ale yeast I ferment at 18C. Lager...depending on which one is either 10C or 12C.


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## sgw86 (19/2/12)

iamozziyob said:


> I seem to be able to eliminate this 'twang'... The kits I lay down these days are frikkin awesome. I attribute this to several factors.
> 
> Minimal dex, which you seem to do anyway, 200-300g max, addition of grains, up to a KG of base malt, wheat malt (dry or grain, varies) and some crystal grains. More often than not they are partials.
> 
> ...



Yob,

Thanks for the great feedback. I think what I will be doing from now on (and you have suggested this in the past) is to remove any BE and replace with Malt. Can this be Liquid Malt or Dry Malt? Do they both produce similar bases to build on?

I would still like to add some dex, and as you said I will make sure I don't go over 300g.

I would also like to move on and start adding grains etc. to my brews.

I put my brews in the 5L Minikegs and then prime with 15g of Dex and let them carb up and condition for 5+ weeks.

Also I usually wait until Day 7, and then if the ferment is 75% or more of the expected FG I ramp up the temp controlled fridge 1C a day until I reach 20C. I then leave it until Day 14 and assuming I have a few constant readings I then drop the fridge to 1C and CC for 1-2 weeks and then keg in the minikegs.


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## Yob (19/2/12)

never really played with (un-hopped) liquid malt so cant comment on that mate... sorry.


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## iralosavic (19/2/12)

Well, you could just buy a lager yeast. Im giving the Swiss lager s189 strain a whirl on my next k&k. Adds $10, sure, but still .. $25 for 3 slabs of much more drinkable beer. Be careful not to over bitter a lager. The malt presence is very mellow so it is easy to end up with a very imbalanced beer that is overly astringent and bitter.​


Sambo7 said:


> The yeast in the BML is a Hybrid yeast...so anything from 15-30. I ferment at 17C as 15-16C the yeast becomes very sluggish. If it's an Ale yeast I ferment at 18C. Lager...depending on which one is either 10C or 12C.


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## DU99 (19/2/12)

This link might answer your question.....also DME is a bit more expensive to LME..and also a better yeast helps


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## roverfj1200 (19/2/12)

Kit twang I think is from the Iso hops used to bitter kits and to a less degree from the reduction of the wort to make extract. It can be hidden or reduced by watching ferment temps and aging the beer. the more money you spend on your brew with better ingredients with reduce it too.

But I can brew a good beer from a kit and BE2 just by watching the temps and conditioning. ( 30 tallies for under $20 ) You get what you pay for.

More bitter kits seem to hide the twang a bit too.

Cheers.


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## sgw86 (19/2/12)

roverfj1200 said:


> Kit twang I think is from the Iso hops used to bitter kits and to a less degree from the reduction of the wort to make extract. It can be hidden or reduced by watching ferment temps and aging the beer. the more money you spend on your brew with better ingredients with reduce it too.
> 
> But I can brew a good beer from a kit and BE2 just by watching the temps and conditioning. ( 30 tallies for under $20 ) You get what you pay for.
> 
> ...



Thanks mate for the feedback. Temp I have under control now that I have a temp controlled fridge. I generally pitch the yeast around 22-23C and then it's usually dropped to the appropiate ferment temp within about 2-3 hours.

I have been adding tea bag hops to my beers lately as well, usually 10-12g steeped for 10mins and then add the liquid to the fermenter. My LHBS was saying to me that he generally only does the steep for 1-2mins as he believes the kits are already bittered enough. Perhaps I could reduce the steep time...or just purely dry hop.

Actually while I am on the topic I have another question that I am hoping somebody could help me with.

Generally what is the recommened amount of hops to dry hop with? I am looking at going with a standard 20g of hop with my brews. Is there a rule for how much to dry hop with...as in is there a limit before the dry hop becomes out of control and just ruins the aroma of the brew?


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## Nick JD (19/2/12)

I found the best way to remove kit twang from my beer was to make beer from the ingredients beer is made from. 

Sure, you can make some really decent kit beers - but by the time you've pissed about trying to put lipstick on a pig you might have well just done it right in the first place. 

Plus it's cheaper. Extract brewing with lipstick on is expensive, and time consuming.


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## iralosavic (19/2/12)

Nick JD said:


> I found the best way to remove kit twang from my beer was to make beer from the ingredients beer is made from.
> 
> Sure, you can make some really decent kit beers - but by the time you've pissed about trying to put lipstick on a pig you might have well just done it right in the first place.
> 
> Plus it's cheaper. Extract brewing with lipstick on is expensive, and time consuming.




I agree with this, however, if you have surpless hops and DME hanging about you can still whip out a half decent brew for the cost of a Coopers can ($12). I'll eventually brew AG exclusively, but I don't have a very big store of finished beer at present and I'd rather have some slightly improved kit beers at hand than nothing.


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## Rina (19/2/12)

I'll bite. How is extract brewing more time consuming than milling, mashing and sparging?


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## iralosavic (19/2/12)

Well doing a 20 minute stovetop boil for some flavour/aroma hop additions to an extract brew will likely mean a 30 minute total brewday. So yeah, it's not time consuming at all. However, if you really dress the pig up, so to speak, and start steeping grains etc, you can draw the brewday out many hours, so I see what Nick is saying. Each to their own, but personally, I'm either spending 30 minutes banging some choice hops into a k&k or I'm spending the time making an AG. Sometimes it's just easier to justify a $15 purchase at BigW and an hour away from home than it is to get "permission" from the minister of finance and home affairs to order (now there's a bad word) a recipe's worth of grains and plan a whole day away.

You CAN get half decent beer out of a kit beer if you use good DME and choose a hop/s and yeast that compliments the style. Assuming your fermenting control is good.


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## Yob (19/2/12)

Nick JD said:


> but by the time you've pissed about trying to put lipstick on a pig you might have well just done it right in the first place.



For me, I really wanted to nail, and nail *HARD*.. how to make really, *really good* Kit brews before moving on to AG, which I have done.

I also skipped all the stove top brewing that I perceive to be a complete waste of time and went right to 3V, with a mill not a grinder. I also bypassed BIAB as a waste of my time.

Kits and Bits for me was as much about process as any stove top AG brew IMO and has served me up many valuable lessons that serve me well in AG brewing.

My opinion is, By the time you have pissed about with little pots on a stove you might as well man up and go full scale. Who wants to do all that work for a dozen beers?

Not trying to pick a fight, it just shits me that every time someone says "you *CAN* make good beer with a kit" someone always has to jump in with "why dont you go AG"

People will go AG when people are ready to and not before. As I did.

Yob


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## bignath (19/2/12)

Rina said:


> I'll bite. How is extract brewing more time consuming than milling, mashing and sparging?



I think it must be due to using the lipstick.

Pigs don't like lipstick. It takes a pretty mellow pig to let you put lipstick on it. This could potentially take a very long time.


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## Nick JD (19/2/12)

iamozziyob said:


> Not trying to pick a fight, it just shits me that every time someone says "you *CAN* make good beer with a kit" someone always has to jump in with "why dont you go AG"



It shits me everytime someone is stupid enough to think that small batch Stovetop brewing is anything more than a teaching/learning technique because I usually think people are smarter than that. I'm often wrong though.

The amount of people who have said, "Thank you for solving all those years of shit kit beer" has lead me to believe that if you have the skills to make great kit beer, you're squandering them on kits. 

I'm not trying to get anyone to stop making beer from a can, but if you want to get rid of that kit beer taste, the easiest way to do it is to make real beer.

If you think stovetop brewing is a waste of time, then I can't help that - all I can do is teach, suggest and support. You are unusual though because so very many people have found it a wonderful tool in their brewing pregression (almost always to full-sized batches).


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## roverfj1200 (19/2/12)

Well I'm a kit brewer and will never go AG. Don't want to go AG. Happy to just make good kit beer and the odd extract.. I'm sure AG beer is fun to make but I just want to do other things with my time..Each to his own..

Cheers


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## RdeVjun (19/2/12)

iamozziyob said:


> I also skipped all the stove top brewing that I perceive to be a complete waste of time and went right to 3V


Really? That's odd- the prospect of converting to 3V was such a monumental PITA that I stuck with Stovetop BIAB for over two years, couldn't have been happier with the results PLUS the time, money and effort I've saved, while the non- trivial haul of gongs, well I guess that is just the cream on top.


> By the time you have pissed about with little pots on a stove you might as well man up and go full scale. Who wants to do all that work for a dozen beers?


 Good point, that's why I found a way to squeeze 23L batches out of a 19L pot, its only a small amount of effort for that extra yield while at that point I was just standing around idly picking my nose anyway, so doesn't really take any longer. A 23L- batch All- Grain brewery for under 50 clams had me stoked- you may be surprised to find the number of folks who are chuffed with their Stovetop AG. By the same token its not a cure- all/ panacea and as Nick and others relate it can be an extremely helpful educational tool, but for some brewers it is their end- point and they are more than happy with it. I don't feel that machismo really comes into it though, but if that's what you get out of it, then all power to you.
I moved to AG primarily to get away from the ridiculous expense of extract brewing, that the quality also jumped an order of magnitude or two higher was incidental. However having said that, some partial mashes and even the odd kits and bits beers are amongst some of my most memorable, so using kit extract as an ingredient need not compromise quality at all and that's reinforced by the folks (eg. roverfj1200) who are determined to not convert to AG at all.


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## Yob (19/2/12)

Nick JD said:


> You are unusual though



well said


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## manticle (19/2/12)

Be great to help out the OP instead of having another AG vs kit war or casting aspersions on each others' methods.

I agree with almost everything you said Yob, except the suggestion that BIAB and stovetop BIAB is a waste of time. I know you specified 'your' time (and thereby the inference could be taken that you are only talking about your time) but just as your hackles rightfully raise when someone shits on kit brewing, I reckon there's a lot of people making good beer, and beer they're happy with using methods they are happy with who might find that antagonistic.

People will go AG if they want and when they want and I think that was the most valuable part of your post. You do know how to make good kit beer too.

Now that we've got that out of the way does anybody have any good advice for the OP besides 'change your method of making beer completely'?

Here is an article written by Thirsty Boy which has many good suggestions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A2j_MO6...en_US&pli=1

Yob's suggestions will also help - I've tried many of his beers and he has, over time, eliminated the kit aspect of his kit beers. Requires some effort but teaches you a lot about the various processes, devlops and understanding of flavour balance etc and is not, in my view, a waste of time.


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## sgw86 (19/2/12)

manticle said:


> Be great to help out the OP instead of having another AG vs kit war or casting aspersions on each others' methods.
> 
> I agree with almost everything you said Yob, except the suggestion that BIAB and stovetop BIAB is a waste of time. I know you specified 'your' time (and thereby the inference could be taken that you are only talking about your time) but just as your hackles rightfully raise when someone shits on kit brewing, I reckon there's a lot of people making good beer, and beer they're happy with using methods they are happy with who might find that antagonistic.
> 
> ...



manticle,

Thank you. Will start to include some of Yob's suggestions into my recipes in the future.I think another valid point was to throw away the yeast that comes with kits and substitue for a proper more premium yeast such as S-23 or US-05 etc.

That document you provided a link for is great! Thanks again mate.


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## Yob (19/2/12)

dont throw it away mate, throw it in at flame out.... mmmm yeast nutrient...

Its sad that im almost out of kit yeast to do this with and will have to invest in some actual nutrient in the near future.

The humanity  

sorry, I should have said about ST and BIAB, "personally saw" 

no offence meant to a brewer of any form, many good beers can be made in almost anything, and often are, there are just as many good reasons for doing so, space being a big one.

Brew away people, as long as it's good beer it's _*GOOD BEER*_ 

:beer:


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## Benchish (19/2/12)

Basic improvements:

Fresh ingredients this goes for everything: the can, hops, malt extract and yeast.

Use the right ingredients, Nottingham will never make a clean lager.

Keep everything as clean and sanitary as possible, including the lip of the can when pouring it out.

Reduce dextrose and sugar usage replace with fresh extract. Liquid extract has a shorter shelf life so buy from somewhere that goes through a lot of it or go for dried extract. Liquid extract has more water by weight so only use 80% to convert to required dried.

Warm rest after fermentation to let the yeast reabsorb byproducts.

and finally some form of temp control


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## mwd (19/2/12)

Well I may as well put the cat amungst the pidgeons.
I have been doing k&ks for a few years and still have not had many successful brews they all taste homebrewish to me. Of the many only a few have been any better than commercial brews. Note my all time favourite bought brew so far is Punk IPA and thirst quencher JS IPA and cheapo Henninger lager.

Yes I have temperature control, grain steeping and hop additions all off pat and use bought yeasts US-05 etc etc.
Don't think it is brew technique as I can turn out a very tasty Fresh Wort Kit so I tend to blame kits for poor results.

I now do not brew as much as the results are disappointing although toucan stouts are worth drinking. I have a can of Coopers Irish stout waiting to be done.

Having a taste for Punk IPA can be a wallet drain so only reserved for special occasions nights and weekends. :icon_drunk: 

Now if I could make a P IPA clone with extract I would be happy as and I do have some Simcoe in stock.


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## manticle (19/2/12)

In that case, there's a good argument for you to step up to BIAB or any other AG method that suits (but from previous posts, I understand you to be limited with space?)


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## Nick JD (19/2/12)

Tropical_Brews said:


> Now if I could make a P IPA clone with extract I would be happy as and I do have some Simcoe in stock.



IPAs are one area where extract brewing really works IMO. You are making a malty/hoppy beer where a lot of the flavours get hidden. Big beers favour extract brewing.

Where extract (and kits) fall on their face is making subtle beers - where there's nothing to hide unwanted flavours behind.

An extract Punk IPA would be fully doable. Not exact, but close.


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## Yob (19/2/12)

Nick JD said:


> Where extract (and kits) fall on their face is making subtle beers - where there's nothing to hide unwanted flavours behind.



:lol: also well said. Will agree it's pretty hard to make just a kit taste good... But frankly, I only ever did that once... then I found this place :drinks: 

:icon_cheers:


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## Fatgodzilla (20/2/12)

You are getting what we lovingly call "the kit twang". Just seems to be a product thing. The only way not to have kit twang is don't use kit beers. However, by adding extra hops you are taking the first step to improving the flavour. I'd recommend a second step and add crystal malts to your beer to add flavours and colour. No mashing, just crush (and you probably don't even really need to do that) and rinse and boil this rinse water before adding to your wort. Eventually learn some "mini mash" techniques (not hard) to go a further step down the track.

Ask your local HBS people for advice on these things. Or find some brewers in your area, raid their supplies and ask them questions.

Kit beers aren't bad beers, just not the best beers. The best chicken soup is made when you cook a real chicken. Kit beers are the equivilent of canned soup - tastes alright, just not like real soup. Savvy ?

Cheers


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## ekul (20/2/12)

Kit beer always gave me sub par results. If i was starting again (and didn't want to go all grain) i would be using those fresh wort kits. Only slightly more expensive than an extract beer but the result is better tasting.

If you don't want to go the fresh wort route i'd be looking at dumping the kit and just using malt extract. This will give you more control as you control the bitterness levels. Also look at styles that have heaps of flavour, like apas and ipas. The high levels of hopping in these styles will cover up some of that kit taste.

Or do a search for BIAB. All grain beer on an extract budget


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## sgw86 (20/2/12)

RdeVjun said:


> Looks like there's a double post of the OP. This one is active, Mods may care to merge the two.



Sorry about the double post. I have been trying to figure out how to delete this one. If the mods don't mind merging please.


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## sgw86 (20/2/12)

People on here talk about Mini Mashes and Partial Mashes. What is the difference between the two? Basically I want to stick with using Extract cans as I am still only 6-7 brews in and stepping up to AG at this point in time makes no sense and I will no doubt be completley lost.

With people talking about hiding the twang taste from the cans I have a recipe that I have slightly modified from the Coopers website.

1 x Thomas Cooper Traditional Draught

1 x 1.5kg Thomas Coopers Light Malt

1 x 20g Cascade Hop Pellets (dry hopped Day 3)

2 x Saflager S-23 Dried Yeast

Now I am guessing with this brew (depending on the freshness of the kit etc.) that there may still be a slight twang to this? Having done little reading up on using grains would I be best adding in some grain to this brew? perhaps 200g of Carapils Malt or some other grain.

Dry hopping 20g Cascade hops, will this do anything in the way of hiding some of that twang?

There are basically three areas that I need some help with

1) Figuring out what Grain to use. How to use it and how much?

2) Hops. What is the general rule of how much to dry hop with? Big fan of having a mild-high hop aroma, though Lagers I am guessing it's better to have a low-mild hop aroma.

3) Hops. Adding Flavour. I do not want to add Bitterness to my brews as I believe the Kit extract cans are already bittered enough. What is the best way to add Flavour from a hop to the beer? Usually I have been steeping 10-12g of hops in a boiling up of water and then just adding the liquid. Is this generally enough to add some flavour from the hops?

Thanks for everyones help so far. Much appreciated.


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## Yob (20/2/12)

A bog standard House Kit for me would include.

Kit
800g DME
200g Wheat Malt Extract (Lovely Head)
250g Dex Max. (Maybe)
200g Crystal 60 (cracked and steeped at roughly 65-70'c)
150g Carapils (cracked and steeped at roughly 65-70'c)
Specialty Yeast - For me US-05 has treated me well.

Crack the grains and soak in water 65-70'c for 30-60 mins (I like 60)

Strain the grains and rinse with 80'c water.

Depending on boil volume, say 4 lt, add 400g DME, Boil the resulting liquid for 20mins (lightly) add flavour hops when boiling, 10g of hops of choice, at 10 mins to go add another 10g of hops of choice. at 0 min add another 10g of hops of your choice. Leave for 5 mins and strain into fermenter. (or smaller amounts of hops depending on your taste / whatever you have on hand)

add the rest of the ingredients and continue as normal.

At 4-5 days into ferment add 1-2g per liter of hops of choice for a dry hop. allow to ferment out. Leave for 1 more week at 20'c (temps raised slowly toward the end of ferment) then cold condition. If you dont have access to a fridge you may want to consider using a bag to contain the hops... I only ever did once or twice though, it's just 1 more thing to bloody clean.

Temp control is critical for producing a clean tasting beer as is not using the kit yeast for anything but nutrient.

If you havnt got it, get the kit and extract spreadsheet on this forum HERE its a great tool for playing about with and getting to know the processes.

Yob

ed: clarity


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## Markbeer (20/2/12)

If you buy in bulk it is possible to get DME cheaper and it lasts longer than LME. A sack of 25KG will make 8 brews and will last the 6 months it takes to use up. 

But in my mind a fresh wort kit is the best without going AG. Also takes 5 mins or ferment it straight in the cube. Some finishing hops and you have world class beer.

Mark



ekul said:


> Kit beer always gave me sub par results. If i was starting again (and didn't want to go all grain) i would be using those fresh wort kits. Only slightly more expensive than an extract beer but the result is better tasting.
> 
> If you don't want to go the fresh wort route i'd be looking at dumping the kit and just using malt extract. This will give you more control as you control the bitterness levels. Also look at styles that have heaps of flavour, like apas and ipas. The high levels of hopping in these styles will cover up some of that kit taste.
> 
> Or do a search for BIAB. All grain beer on an extract budget


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## ekul (20/2/12)

Sambo7 said:


> People on here talk about Mini Mashes and Partial Mashes. What is the difference between the two? Basically I want to stick with using Extract cans as I am still only 6-7 brews in and stepping up to AG at this point in time makes no sense and I will no doubt be completley lost.




A partial/mini mash is where part of the malt bill of your beer is made up of base malt (grain that needs mashing), and the other part is extract. This method combines the worst parts of all grain and extract. Because you have to do a mash it means that your brew day is going to be just as long as an all grain one, but then the quality of the beer is brought down by using extract. IN saying that a partial mash beer will taste better than a kit beer.BUt if you have to spend a few hours making it you may as well just use a couple extra kilos of base malt and make an all grain beer.

A partial mash is different to steeping grains. Steeping grains will make your kit beers taste better and doesn't take as long as a minimash.

If you think you can cope with a partial mash, then you can cope with all grain, as they are the same except that the partial mash doesn't taste as good and is more expensive.


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## iralosavic (20/2/12)

I've never seen any fresh wort kits anywhere near the cost of a k&k beer.


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## manticle (20/2/12)

Sambo7 said:


> People on here talk about Mini Mashes and Partial Mashes. What is the difference between the two?



Essentially none.

A small amount of grain is mashed in both cases. With a partial mash, the rest of the fermentables are made up with a kit or some extract so part of the fermentables come from the mash (hence 'partial mash').

With a minimash, the same thing happens but it might be added to beef up a beer that's already full mash (or not - it's not really specified). A partial mash uses a minimash but a minimash won't always be made for a partial mash.

Steeping specialty grains to add to a kit/extract brew is different from mashing and is not a partial mash.


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## sgw86 (20/2/12)

iamozziyob said:


> A bog standard House Kit for me would include.
> 
> Kit
> 800g DME
> ...



Yob,

When you talk about soaking the grains in 65-70C water is that basically just boiling up the water to 70C and then turning the heat off and letting the grain soak for 60mins? or do you keep the heat on and boil it lightly?

When you strain the grain (Do I just use a grain bag) and then can I just pour the 80C water over the bag into the wort?


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## manticle (20/2/12)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

Check out the articles section for various how tos - there's a lot of quality info in there (just gloss over the ones that obviously shouldn't be there where a noob has posted an 'article' instead of a thread by mistake)


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## ekul (20/2/12)

The knk has the homebrew taste that you can't get rid of though. To minimise that the twang you're going to want to start investigating malt extracts, hops and grains, thats where things start getting expensive.

So my usual recipe was as follows

3kg liquid malt extract @ $9.90 a kg (I was being ripped off though maybe)
.5kg dex $2
50g of hops $4

Cost $35

Compared to a fresh wort kit for $40. PLus the fresh wort kit will taste like beer, ands it quicker as well. 

FWIW an all grain aussie ale will cost me around $15-18 per 23L...


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## manticle (20/2/12)

Extract brewing is good for learning about hopping schedules etc, which FWK can't really do.

FWK will usually make high quality beer for no effort and at points where I have been to busy to brew, I have happily made and drunk a couple. Definitely worth a go, just to see the difference between extract and AG.


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## iralosavic (20/2/12)

Ah thanks for breaking your costs down. When I brew extracts, I just grab a <$15 can, add some DME and dex if applicable and a single flavour hop late in a 10-20 min boil. $7-11 for a good dried yeast. I don't include the hops in my cost as it's only ever surpless stuff I use. My total cost is usually under $25, assuming I have to buy yeast. I'm gearing up to split and store yeast to save on this front.

That being said, I'm contemplating buying a fresh wort kit as I'm taking a keg full of whatever style my mate requests to his 30th which is only a month away, so I don't have time to get it wrong...


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## Arghonaut (20/2/12)

ekul said:


> The knk has the homebrew taste that you can't get rid of though. To minimise that the twang you're going to want to start investigating malt extracts, hops and grains, thats where things start getting expensive.



I've gone back to extract recently as i dont have the time for AG at the moment. It isnt that much more expensive. A sack of dry malt extract from craftbrewer comes out at $5.50 a kg. I usually use anywhere from 2.5 - 3.5 kg per 23l batch. A few hundred grams of spec grains costs $1 - 2. By buying hops in 500 gram lots and reusing/harvesting yeast you can easily do $20 batches for a simple beer or max $30 for a bigger beer.

Frankly any hop driven styles like APA's, IPA's, are almost indistinguishable to the AG versions i have done. If you look at some US sites where extract brewing seems to be far more popular, you can get some well reviewed recipes for alot of styles, next on my list are a couple of belgian ales, an ESB and an irish red that i have found popular extract recipes for.

Extract seems to get a lot of knockers on this forum, but i think it is a valid option for those of us who cant spend 4+ hours making beer, but want more control then a kit gives you.


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