# Bittering hops in a stout



## pressure_tested (23/5/13)

Hi,

I'm brewing the all grain version of Oatmeal Stout from 'brewing classic styles'

Most stouts seem to use East kent which is such a low Alpha Acid hop for bittering. It seems like you get poor bang for your buck. Can I subsitute other hops to save money or will there be a noticable difference?

I have spare Pride of ringwood, Simcoe, cascade and willamette in the freezer.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (23/5/13)

Not sure about the AA% of your Willamette, viz looking at the bang for your buck. But as a bittering in English style hop, it does very very nicely.

I've done an English Bitter with it that was highly rated (and would have nabbed a silver had I not entered it as a Mild - according to a very good judge in his helpful feedback notes).

IIRC, it's the US version of Fuggles. Obviously terroir and the like will alter its profile a little compared to UK Fuggles, but it's nonetheless a great hop. Good soft bittering.


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## Bribie G (23/5/13)

I'm doing a 4.7% ABV nitro stout today (nothing else to do, pissin down here) and using Challenger, 40g. Great bitterer and a hint of marmalade. I've also got NZ Willamette and NZ Fuggles, might try them in future batches.


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## pressure_tested (23/5/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Not sure about the AA% of your Willamette, viz looking at the bang for your buck. But as a bittering in English style hop, it does very very nicely.


Yeah it's onlly 4.7% but I already have it as opposed to buying east kent.

thanks for the tips


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## technobabble66 (23/5/13)

What about simcoe & the "C" hops? (Ie: higher AA%, citrus/fruit/pine flavours). 
Why do they generally not get used in stouts?


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## mckenry (23/5/13)

technobabble66 said:


> What about simcoe & the "C" hops? (Ie: higher AA%, citrus/fruit/pine flavours).
> Why do they generally not get used in stouts?


Nothing to say you cant use 'C' hops, but they're not traditionally used in stouts. C hops are more often than not associated with American Pale Ales. English hops, like EKG, go with English beers. Nobles, like, Hallertau go with German beers. Its all about where they originated and what beer styles came from those regions.
Its just style guidelines. They are guidelines, so you can do whatever you feel like if you think it works. Probably wont win any comps putting C hops in a stout (if entered as a stout).
Also those passionfruit type flavours seem a bit wrong hand in hand with the burnt, roasty flavours of a stout. Just my gut instinct.
As with all recipes, there are no laws. Some things work, others dont.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (23/5/13)

mckenry said:


> Nothing to say you cant use 'C' hops, but they're not traditionally used in stouts. C hops are more often than not associated with American Pale Ales. English hops, like EKG, go with English beers. Nobles, like, Hallertau go with German beers. Its all about where they originated and what beer styles came from those regions.
> Its just style guidelines. They are guidelines, so you can do whatever you feel like if you think it works. Probably wont win any comps putting C hops in a stout (if entered as a stout).
> Also those passionfruit type flavours seem a bit wrong hand in hand with the burnt, roasty flavours of a stout. Just my gut instinct.
> As with all recipes, there are no laws. Some things work, others dont.


American Stout, BJCP Style 12.2 does allow you to use American hops of a citrus-y nature.


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## Nick JD (23/5/13)

technobabble66 said:


> What about simcoe & the "C" hops? (Ie: higher AA%, citrus/fruit/pine flavours).
> Why do they generally not get used in stouts?


Stouts are not about hops.


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## Bribie G (23/5/13)

I don't know about Coopers Stout but nearly all the commercials such as Guinness, Sheaf, Murphys etc just use extracts.


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## manticle (23/5/13)

All coopers worts (including kits) are made with fresh hops in the kettle and adjusted where need be with iso.


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## tanukibrewer (23/5/13)

I use Northern Brewer in some of my stouts.100g per 38-40L batch.Gives a nice flavour


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## Nick JD (23/5/13)

manticle said:


> All coopers worts (including kits) are made with fresh hops in the kettle and adjusted where need be with iso.


Wouldn't be surprised if it's all Canadian Blonde, with more hop extract or colouring for the rest.


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## slash22000 (23/5/13)

Insofar as the original question, instead of using heaps of low alpha hop, can you just use a smaller amount of high alpha hop to save money .... My understanding is that super high alpha hops give a harsher bitterness compared to low alpha hops, and the reason a good number of English beers recommend tonnes of low alpha hops to bitter rather than few high alpha hops is to keep the hop bitterness mellow and subdued.

Could be wrong, but really, we're talking about $4 of hops.


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## manticle (23/5/13)

There are some higher aa hops that have been bred specifically to give smoother bittering but in general - the low alphas and more noble type hops (by noble type I include ekg and styrian even though they are not one of the four nobles) generally give smoother bittering than many of the high aa hops.

Cohumulone levels usually said to be the main culprit but have read recently that it is not certain this is the case.


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## DeGarre (23/5/13)

I recently used Columbus 17.9% AA in a porter to get 93 ibus on paper. OG 1056. A very tight beer indeed and none of that American piney resiny citrusy, just good solid firm bitterness - so I would go with Simcoe and lots of it.


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## bum (23/5/13)

You used one hop and liked it so conclude another hop will be suitable in a different beer?

Of that bunch, OP, Willamette is probably the one to pick (as already mentioned above). But if you're not in a rush, get the right hops the recipe - you'll use them in something else anyway.


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## Dan Pratt (23/5/13)

If you haven't made an oatmeal stout before I would recommend using the EKG low alpha hops and make it to style. Then maybe a remake with adjustments on the hops from the c's or something higher on the aa rating. But if this not the first time then experiment with it and see what you get.


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## yum beer (23/5/13)

I use Target mainly for bittering with EKG for flavour.
Have used EKG to bitter with good results in a pommy bitter.
Willamette will work if you have it.


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## pressure_tested (24/5/13)

I was avoiding a trip to the LHBS but turns out I have to go anyway to do someone a favour. Ill just get some East Kent while I'm there. Unfortunately it's a brewers choice so ill be paying close to $10 for 60 bloody grams.

Thanks for your advice people. In this case if the noble hops will get me a mellow bitterness, that's what I'm wanting


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## 431neb (24/5/13)

I hopped a coopers kit with 20 g of simcoe for 10 mins and a kilo of malt as a quick keg filler. It was amazing for a kit. I'll do it again.


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## TNT650R (24/5/13)

I don't like EKG for bittering, for my stout I use target or challenger.
C hops aren't in style of course..
but dipend from you..in the US quite all think: Bitter is Bitter so they usually use hops with high AA% and they don't care...
I usually prefer to respect the rules if I don't want make something new of course!


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