# Element Question



## The Village Idiot (21/6/13)

A question for the electrically minded out there. Can this element be run from a "normal" household power point? I thought 2.4kw was the max? Anyone using one?


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## NickB (21/6/13)

You would need a dedicated 15A GPO to run that. Do not try to use a standard GPO - you risk melting it. If you have the correct sized cable a sparky should be able to install a 15A GPO on the existing circuit, or run another specifically.


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## Steve0408 (24/6/13)

Yeah I agree it needs a 15 amp plug but you also need a thermostat to keep it at temperature and a safety thermostat to cut it out should the first one fail. They fit a coloured ring by the terminals if it includes a thermal fuse this one doesn't and could be dangerous if not correctly controlled with a thermostat.


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## Beerbuoy (24/6/13)

I have the same element in my herms running off a standard power point. Works fine for me. I checked out the wiring in the house to make sure it could handle the load first.
The wiring is more of a problem then having a 15amp GPO. The problem is - probably half the power points in your house are running off the same circuit so everything is fine until you have the brew rig running and the missus turns on the kettle in the kitchen. Don't rely on the circuit breaker tripping before things start to melt.

In most cases it can be done BUT if you have no idea when it comes to electrical stuff then don't do it.


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## emnpaul (24/6/13)

Two differences between a 15A gpo and 10 gpo are the size of the earth pin and the ability of the switch to repeatedly break the circuit under load before it flogs out. You can run it off a 10A power point for quite a while, perhaps indefinitely, as per Beerbuoy's post, but the total load on that circuit at any given time then becomes an issue, particularly if it includes the kitchen where a kettle or toaster, even some newer microwaves may become the tipping point and cause the circuit breaker to trip.

In a nutshell you are much better off with a dedicated 15A circuit.


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## MartinOC (10/11/13)

OK, perhaps someone could answer me this one:

I have a 16A circuit breaker on the garage circuit (the brewery), which is separate from everything else in the house.

I've been trying to nut-out whether I can theoretically run everything I need to:

2x 2400W elements (HLT & Herms H/X);
A March pump;
12V Brown pump
Stereo (essential to my brewing regime!).

I also have two fridges & a small freezer running on the same circuit, but plan on turning them off during the 2-3 hours that I'd be drawing max. current.

According to my calculations, the two 2400W elements alone draw 20A, yet I've run a test with two elements & the circuit breaker didn't trip as expected. 

Am I missing something, or was I just lucky with my test? Perhaps my calc's are wrong?


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/11/13)

Did you hit the test button on your cct breaker. This should be done regularly to stop the mecanism sticking.


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## Pokey (10/11/13)

16 amps is the thermal rating on the breaker, it needs time to heat up before it will trip. It will trip instantly on a short circuit.


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/11/13)

Also...depending on the type of breaker the trip current can be 2,3 or 5 times the breakers rated current. This allows for current surges caused by electric motors and fluro lights. So a 10amp breaker may not trip untill a continuos current of 20-30A is reached.

DO NOT RUN A COMBINATION OF APLLIANCES THAT DRAWS MORE CURRENT THAN THE BREAKER IS RATED FOR.


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/11/13)

And what pokey said


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## QldKev (10/11/13)

How long did you leave it running for? Allowing a standard C-curve you would get 1 minute running 20amp on a 16amp breaker.


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## Grainer (10/11/13)

NickB said:


> You would need a dedicated 15A GPO to run that. Do not try to use a standard GPO - you risk melting it. If you have the correct sized cable a sparky should be able to install a 15A GPO on the existing circuit, or run another specifically.


Agree +1


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## MartinOC (10/11/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Did you hit the test button on your cct breaker. This should be done regularly to stop the mecanism sticking.


The only test button is on the RCD for the entire house, which I checked first. The individual cct breakers have no test button.


QldKev said:


> How long did you leave it running for? Allowing a standard C-curve you would get 1 minute running 20amp on a 16amp breaker.


In all honesty, probably only 1-2 minutes. Perhaps there's the flaw in my test?

From the above, it would seem prudent to run the HLT element from a separate house circuit via a 15A extension cord.


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## QldKev (10/11/13)

Yep, some circuit breakers have different curves, C is the standard household one. It will say C16 for a C curve 16amp, etc on the breaker to know what curve it is.

At the end of the day it's 16amp and you need more, so a decent heavy duty cord from the house will do the trip. I run my 3V via extension cords. Don't use the cheap 10amp ones for long runs with big loads. The extra heavy duty tradesman is a 15amp cable with 10amp plugs, and is great for this type of work.


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## MartinOC (10/11/13)

QldKev said:


> Yep, some circuit breakers have different curves, C is the standard household one. It will say C16 for a C curve 16amp, etc on the breaker to know what curve it is.
> 
> At the end of the day it's 16amp and you need more, so a decent heavy duty cord from the house will do the trip. I run my 3V via extension cords. Don't use the cheap 10amp ones for long runs with big loads. The extra heavy duty tradesman is a 15amp cable with 10amp plugs, and is great for this type of work.


Thanks Kev. Sage counsel.

The only mention of "C" I can see is on the cct breaker for the evap. cooling. All the others only say 16A "G", 32A "G" etc. Is there such a thing as a "G" curve?

I'll source a heavy duty extension cord for the HLT & run it from inside the house (probably no more than a 10m run max.).

If I'm planning on pulling this much current, would it be a good idea to get the two GPO's in the garage changed for 15A ones (I'm pretty sure they'd be standard 10A ones)?


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## QldKev (10/11/13)

Never heard of a G curve. To change over to 15amp GPOs your electrician would need to check the supply line to the sub board.


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## Camo1234 (11/11/13)

If you end up getting a sparkie in to upgrade your brewery power, work out what you need and then get more installed.

You'll definitely end up running more than you first planned!


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/11/13)

I would run a 32A cct to a sub-mains board to the shed/brewery. That will cover just about everything you need to run


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## MartinOC (11/11/13)

OK, thanks guys. 'Guess I've got some more thinking/planning to do...


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## Camo1234 (11/11/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I would run a 32A cct to a sub-mains board to the shed/brewery. That will cover just about everything you need to run


Yep, thats what I got installed as well... the 32A breaker has already paid off with upgrading to a 15A point for my BM.


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## Vanoontour (17/11/13)

So to sum up tho, this element would be fine if it were run off a 15A circuit? I am thinking of using it for my HLT/HERMs coil via a PID and SSR.


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## QldKev (17/11/13)

vanoontour said:


> So to sum up tho, this element would be fine if it were run off a 15A circuit? I am thinking of using it for my HLT/HERMs coil via a PID and SSR.


If you are talking about the 3000w element int he first post, yes.

volt * amp = watts
240v * 15amp = 3600w max.

So 3000w is less than 3600w so it is ok if it is the only device using that circuit.


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## Glot (17/11/13)

2400 watts divided by 240 volts = 10 amps. Anything more than a 2400 watt element is too much load for a 10 amp power point. The house wiring and over current protective device has nothing to do with it. The switch in the power point is rated for 10 amps!


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## Vanoontour (17/11/13)

Hey Glot, I have a dedicated 15A point straight from my main board so I'm fine there. I was just making sure the element would be suitable for what I propose doing with it, I'm more than comfortable the circuit can handle it.

Cheers


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