# Polyclar Test Results



## sav (26/9/10)

I have wanting to show the test results on a filtered APA I kegged the other night these two beers are the same both filtered and one without polyclar addition,I have been using poly clar for a fair while but I have had mixed opinions about it .
So instead of adding to the kegs then filter I crashed my 50lts two 2 deg for 2 days added polyclar to the fermenter and left it 24hours the results are amazing,It is so bright I thought my beers were clear before but not like this you can see the bloody TV through it.

So am I a happy man yes 
Will I do every beer now yes 
It took me 2 min to do and the rewards show.

sav


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## Banshee (26/9/10)

Looks like a bought one.


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## Swizzle (26/9/10)

Nice work. I love a recommendation - you've inspired me to give it a go. Thanks for sharing...


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## TidalPete (26/9/10)

Polyclar & BrewBrite (Not necessarily in that order  ) are the poor man's filter jamie. :beer: 

TP


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## [email protected] (26/9/10)

After seeing this post and reading others on Polyclar/Brewbrite i was amazed at the wood some people are getting over it. I've been using it for a few years and it's second nature. I'm amazed that it seems to ba a new discovery on AHB.

Booz


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## Malted (26/9/10)

sav said:


> I have wanting to show the test results on a filtered APA I kegged the other night these two beers are the same both filtered and one without polyclar addition,I have been using poly clar for a fair while but I have had mixed opinions about it .



What micron filter are you using?


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## MarkBastard (26/9/10)

You say it takes 2 minutes, what method did you use exactly?


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## sav (26/9/10)

Malted said:


> What micron filter are you using?




1 micron absolute of cb


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## sav (26/9/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> You say it takes 2 minutes, what method did you use exactly?




Boil jug 15grams of polyclar for (52lts ) in scooner glass stir and add to fermenter a quick stir with sanitised spoon ya done leave it 24hrs.

Rember you have to filter it


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## jakub76 (26/9/10)

TidalPete said:


> Polyclar & BrewBrite (Not necessarily in that order  ) are the poor man's filter jamie.



My understanding is that polyclar is a filter aid - little bits of PVC that yeast and haze particles cling to, then it all gets caught in the filter. I didn't realise it could be used as an alternative to filtering. Is that a common practice? How do you make sure you're not drinking it?


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## haysie (26/9/10)

Does brewbrite or polyclar make the beer taste better? or does it make a crappy recipe come poor brewing technique come average beer look good?
Waste of time i found. Stick with the ancient art of "patience" :icon_cheers:


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## chappo1970 (26/9/10)

Good work Sav!!!

Gotta agree the results are worth the effort. B)


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## Bribie G (26/9/10)

I regularly use Polyclar a few days before kegging and tip the mixture into the secondary cold cube, sometimes you can actually see a very fine 'break' happening almost instantly, and it settles out nicely over a couple of days no need to filter.


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## Ade42 (27/9/10)

I havent moved to AG yet, but I use a little grain and hops in my kit brews.

Well i used polyclar for the first time last week and the results were nothing short of incredible.

I used gelatin, set the temp for 0 (sat at 0.5 most of the time) 3 days later i added 10-15g of polyclar into a 250ml container put some boiling water in and shook for about 20-30 mins, continued to shake till the last second i poured in though a funnel, waited another 3 days and the results were perfectly clear beer!, Now i don't use any teabags or anything with my hops and had quite a bit in the fermented loose, and usually beers i bottle are pretty cloudy affairs, taking a few weeks to clear up, and then they usually have lots of hop matters in em. not with the polyclar.

Here's a Pic, now when I bottle I usaly never bottle the last sevral, as its almost soup going into the bottles, Heres the last bottle, not 100 percent clear (but bloody close) and its that last bottle. this is straight out of the wort its not been in a bottle or anything and isnt carbed of course. 






I know I dont do AG or keg, but my experiments with polyclar have convinced me to do it every batch


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## argon (27/9/10)

Last few batches I've just thrown in a teaspoon of polyclar dry into the primary while cold conditioning. After 24-48hrs filter and the beers have come out super clear. Identical clarity to rehydrated polyclar and filtering. For me, I've determined that boiling water and stirring for 30 mins is not any more beneficial, so I won't be doing it from now on... Just pitch it dry.

Hopefully it's cause I was making beer without chill haze anyway. But works fine enough and worth the 10secs effort.


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## RdeVjun (27/9/10)

argon said:


> Last few batches I've just thrown in a teaspoon of polyclar dry into the primary while cold conditioning.


Cat, meet the pigeons!

Actually, that's really interesting. When I was a researcher's dog's- body, we used a similar product (PAM) to enhance aggregation of fine particles and reduce erosion/ contaminant export (i.e. we were working with pesticides) from irrigation, I think the product is at the commercial stage now. We metered it directly into the applied irrigation and it would do its stuff with ease.


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## MarkBastard (27/9/10)

argon said:


> Last few batches I've just thrown in a teaspoon of polyclar dry into the primary while cold conditioning. After 24-48hrs filter and the beers have come out super clear. Identical clarity to rehydrated polyclar and filtering. For me, I've determined that boiling water and stirring for 30 mins is not any more beneficial, so I won't be doing it from now on... Just pitch it dry.
> 
> Hopefully it's cause I was making beer without chill haze anyway. But works fine enough and worth the 10secs effort.



I'm wondering if the boiling water is more about sanitisation than anything else?

It seems to me like it 'melts' almost straight away in boiling water and the stirring doesn't do anything after the first minute or so.

And from what I've read people are getting good results from this short stir.

Another case of something being more complicated than it needs to be.


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## zebba (27/9/10)

I did some tests with just a glass of wort. As it cooled, a big cloud appeared in the middle. I just sprinkled a tiny dusting of polyclar on top and within a couple of minutes the cloud had dropped to the bottom of the glass. It was still quite loose, but manageable, and the wort above the cloud was as bright as bright can be. 

Summary: It works without boiling or stirring. But I'd be hesitant to do that to a fermenter full of wort as I don't know what sort of infection risk no-boiling it creates.


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## Phoney (27/9/10)

sav said:


> Rember you have to filter it




I dont filter my beer & it alwasy turns out as clear as your one on the right 


I also dont see what the big hassle is about stirring polyclar; 1 tsp into a pyrex jug, add boiling water, drop in a stir bar, sit on stir plate for 20 mins...then pitch. Easy.


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## MarkBastard (27/9/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> I dont filter my beer & it alwasy turns out as clear as your one on the right
> 
> 
> I also dont see what the big hassle is about stirring polyclar; 1 tsp into a pyrex jug, add boiling water, drop in a stir bar, sit on stir plate for 20 mins...then pitch. Easy.



You can't see that being able to put it straight into a fermenter as is would be more convenient than buying a stir plate, a pyrex jug, and making the process 30 minutes long instead of 30 seconds?


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## Phoney (27/9/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> You can't see that being able to put it straight into a fermenter as is would be more convenient than buying a stir plate, a pyrex jug, and making the process 30 minutes long instead of 30 seconds?



Well, I bought the stir plate for making starters...but it's only 30 seconds of actual work to do it properly.


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## MarkBastard (27/9/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> Well, I bought the stir plate for making starters...but it's only 30 seconds of actual work to do it properly.



...if you already own a stir plate


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## argon (27/9/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'm wondering if the boiling water is more about sanitisation than anything else?



Yeha that's what i figure... if i do hydrate it, it will be with boiling water just for sanitation's sake... but figure a dry teaspoon of polylcar is not gonna infect my beer... hopeully




Mark^Bastard said:


> You can't see that being able to put it straight into a fermenter as is would be more convenient than buying a stir plate, a pyrex jug, and making the process 30 minutes long instead of 30 seconds?



+1


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## MarkBastard (27/9/10)

argon said:


> Yeha that's what i figure... if i do hydrate it, it will be with boiling water just for sanitation's sake... but figure a dry teaspoon of polylcar is not gonna infect my beer... hopeully
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You'd think that it wouldn't be any worse than dry hopping, depending how you store the polyclar. I'd still mix with boiling water to be safe.


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## Bribie G (27/9/10)

I've been using brewbrite in the kettle (caragheenan plus a type of Polyclar) and getting good results, but I'm not getting the ultra bright beers I was getting with late addition of Polyclar in secondary. I'll be going back to that method although still have a shedload of BB left so will combine the two. BB in the kettle seems to do a far better job of dropping the break compared to whirlfloc so I didn't waste my money.


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## Ade42 (27/9/10)

I still think it needs to be stired for 20+ mins. 

while i was shaking mine I stopped after 30 seconds and observed the bottom of the container, Loads of poly sediment,
after 5 min of shaking, still loads of poly sediment, hmm i was thinking that it was not going to change and nearly pitched it then, but continued to 25 mins, after i stopped there was quite a bit less ploy sediment. not much at all. i gave it another 5 mins then pitched.

Dunno if it's any better but it seemed to be "dissolved" better after a long shake. 

If it's just to sanitize the stuff, using boiling water an all, thats ok by me.


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## Ross (27/9/10)

BribieG said:


> I've been using brewbrite in the kettle (caragheenan plus a type of Polyclar) and getting good results, but I'm not getting the ultra bright beers I was getting with late addition of Polyclar in secondary. I'll be going back to that method although still have a shedload of BB left so will combine the two. BB in the kettle seems to do a far better job of dropping the break compared to whirlfloc so I didn't waste my money.




I thought your taste tests showed no detriment from cold break  

Cheers Ross


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## Ross (27/9/10)

Ade42 said:


> Dunno if it's any better but it seemed to be "dissolved" better after a long shake.
> 
> If it's just to sanitize the stuff, using boiling water an all, thats ok by me.




Rehydrated the polyclar is more efficient, but if you don't have a stir plate - just use a little more, add boiling water, give a quick stir & sprinkle over surface of fermenter (it's what i do)

cheers Ross


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## Bribie G (27/9/10)

Ross said:


> I thought your taste tests showed no detriment from cold break
> 
> Cheers Ross



Sorry, was referring to dropping HOT break as it's the carragheenan doing that :icon_cheers: Compared to whirlfloc, when you pour the Brewbrite slurry into the kettle it goes ZAP and turns it into breadcrumb soup in about five seconds and drops like the Titanic.
As far as chill haze goes, I'm getting clear beers using the Brewbrite but - erm - not as brilliant as the gelatine / polyclar previousl regime. It could be a 'freshness' issue with the BB but hey I'll get more Polyclar in and do a two stage thingo, kettle finings first then finings in secondary later. Skin cat many ways. :icon_drunk: 

Going on what a certain Fosters employee has posted here, the commercials use a raft of methods including diatomaceous earth, Polyclar, membrane filters, wing of bat, eye of toad you name it so why not us amateurs if we have access to the technology.


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## DUANNE (27/9/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> You can't see that being able to put it straight into a fermenter as is would be more convenient than buying a stir plate, a pyrex jug, and making the process 30 minutes long instead of 30 seconds?




i have the stirplate and flask already and once the polyclar is mixing i just forget about it. so instead of 30 seconds it takes a minute or so of actual effort. for mine well worth it for the piece of mind that it is sanitised and prepared according to instructions rightly or wrongly.


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## Superoo (29/9/10)

Just to clear things up a bit, I think the manufacturers of Polyclar recommend NOT consuming the product, ie: it must be filtered.

Just that lots of the posts here dont indicate if you are filtering or not.
Wouldnt like to consume polyclar if the manufacturers dont advise it.

My 2c worth - I add 1 teaspoon of gelatine and then temp down to 1 deg for 2 days, then add polyclar for 2 days before filtering.
If I'm in a hurry, I just do the Gelatine part of it and dont filter.

Am happy with slightly cloudy beers, but dont like serving them to non home brewers, the first thing they do is LOOK at it, and cloudiness puts them off immediately.

Rgds,
Superoo


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## argon (29/9/10)

Superoo said:


> Just to clear things up a bit, I think the manufacturers of Polyclar recommend NOT consuming the product, ie: it must be filtered.


Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V = 


Polyclar PVPP colloidal stabilisers from ISP are internationally recognised as the most effective available & are used by many of the worlds leading breweries.

After bottling/kegging & over time, unstabilised beer is prone to produce colloidal haze (chill haze) due to the formation of polyphenol-protein complexes. To achieve stability, these proteins need to be removed or prevented from forming. Naturally occurring flavanoid & tannoid polyphenols oxidise during beer storage, contributing to loss of freshness & beer flavour. It has been demonstrated that selective removal of some of the polyphenols present with Polyclar PVPP is a most effective way of reducing haze & preventing flavour deterioration, thus helping to keep beer bright & fresh longer.Colloidal stability of up to 12 months is routinely achieved using Polycar.

Polyclar VT has the following advantages:


Removes/prevents chill haze & retards the formation of stale & astringent flavour characteristics.

Consistently achieve maximum shelf life.

No adverse affect on foam, flavour or other beer quality parameters.

Highly effective at low dosage rates with short contact times.

Cost effective Typically 0.50c per 23L batch.

Insoluble process aid that can be completely removed by filtration, or by leaving for a few days & racking off the lees.

Easy to use with excellent handling characteristics.

Meets the standards of the German Beer Purity Control Law (Reinheitsgebot).

Non Hazardous. Safe to use with no detrimental impact on the environment.

Usage instructions:

Add 5 10gms polyclar (23L batch) to half a cup of freshly boiled water. (For maximum efficiency the polyclar slurry should be stirred for minimum 15 minutes, preferably 60 minutes & kept agitated until used)
Add slurry to cold conditioning beer. (The colder the beer the better).
*Minimum contact time of 5 to 10 minutes is desirable (if filtering), however there is no negative impact on the beer with extended times. If not filtering, leave for 2 to 3 days to settle, then rack off the lees.*


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## Bribie G (29/9/10)

PVPP is present as a 'filler' in many tablets and other products and I expect we've all eaten a shedload of it, in fact it's so safe that they trialled making an artificial blood plasma substitute out of it. Should be able to work it into a curry, maybe. B)


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## argon (29/9/10)

BribieG said:


> PVPP is present as a 'filler' in many tablets and other products and I expect we've all eaten a shedload of it, *in fact it's so safe that they trialled making an artificial blood plasma substitute out of i*t. Should be able to work it into a curry, maybe. B)


 :lol: :lol: that's about the 4th time i've read that from you... i was hoping you'd post that again :icon_cheers:


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## Bribie G (29/9/10)

Really? However I've been suffering from poor memory since that plasma transfusion the other year <_<


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## Nick JD (29/9/10)

Polyclar in boiling water smells like Chernobyl. 

I like to sprinkle it on my peanut butter sandwiches. Makes my pee clear as something made from something crystal.


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## Thirsty Boy (30/9/10)

ahh, it works pretty much no matter how you use it - re-hydrated, dry, cold, warm, whatever. The difference is speed. The stuff simply doesn't do its chemical thing properly till its re-hydrated - which will happen in the beer - but if you want to add it to a cold keg, give it a shake and filter the stuff asap, rehydrate it prior to speed things up. If you are going to stick it in secondary and leave it a day or two, chucking it dry into the secondary and racking on top is pretty damn easy - or into the keg you are going to filter from.

I like and am hoping the brewbrite process works for me well enough - I normally open up my primary and add PVPP to it... I'd like to take that step out of my process which the brewbrite allows nicely. Could probably add the normal stuff at pitching time... but yeast in suspension does effect its performance, so you'd need to use more.


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## DJR (11/10/10)

I've been lazy and just sprinkle it in (about 5g worth), no boil or anything, works fine with no infections over the last 2 years i've been doing it that way. I should really boil it though.


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## argon (12/10/10)

Just added polyclar to 2 batches tonight.. did it dry. Noticed that as soon as it hit the surface the beer kinda contracted around it, then sunk. Obviously it's pretty hard to get an even distribution across the surface by sprinkling so it clumped a fair bit... now i'm not sure if doing it dry is the most effective method. I feel as if the polyclar should 'touch' as much beer as possible to remove the chill haze. I'l be entering this Pilsner in this months BABBs comp so see if i get any clarity comments. if not i'll continue on... if i notice some haze probably go back to boiling and mixing. I reckon this method would be better for more even distribution of the particles through the beer.


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## Thirsty Boy (13/10/10)

I tend to agree. I think that any "dry" addition should be kind of like a bulk priming situation... You want to either rack the beer onto the PC or stir it in well to ensure good contact. One of the reasons why adding it as a slurry is good... You just stir the surface a little to distribute it evenly.

A dry addition is easy as if you are filtering from keg to keg... Easy as if you rack to secondary, or stuff like that. Less easy if like me you filter or keg directly out of primary.

Or just sprinkle carefully and use a bit more to balance the lesser effectiveness. It's not about one thing working and another not working - it's just about getting the addition right and using the right method to blend in with your particular methods and techniques


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## MarkBastard (22/10/10)

I gave the quick polyclar method a go and love the results. Just pretty much used boiling water and only mixed for a couple of minutes then straight in the fermenter.

The above picture is about 30 minutes after force carbing ross style in the keg... Yeah I filtered too. It actually looked way clearer in real life, that's a crap picture.


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## argon (2/11/10)

argon said:


> Just added polyclar to 2 batches tonight.. did it dry. Noticed that as soon as it hit the surface the beer kinda contracted around it, then sunk. Obviously it's pretty hard to get an even distribution across the surface by sprinkling so it clumped a fair bit... now i'm not sure if doing it dry is the most effective method. I feel as if the polyclar should 'touch' as much beer as possible to remove the chill haze. I'l be entering this Pilsner in this months BABBs comp so see if i get any clarity comments. if not i'll continue on... if i notice some haze probably go back to boiling and mixing. I reckon this method would be better for more even distribution of the particles through the beer.




Entered the German Pilsner int he mini-comp... it was very young... about 10 days out of secondary and got reasonably slated for acetaldehyde and lack of carbonation... however got the comment of "excellent clarity" so i either get no chill haze from my brewing or the dry addition of polyclar is effective. You can pretty much read a paper through it, which is nice, totally impractical, but nice.

Either way i'm happy


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