# Aabc 2006 Results



## DJR (13/11/06)

Here we go, the AABC results just got emailed to me so i thought i'd upload them here.

I wonder when they will go to BJCP for the style cats (or at least TRY to make it standard across the board), i know there is a couple of entries that haven't been listed here because there was no style for them (e.g. American Rye).

Seeing my APA get beaten by the IPA's isn't fun, but i guess that's brewing comps for you.

Congrats to those winning entries, i must just be a bit sore, oh well  

View attachment AABC2006_FullResults.pdf


View attachment AABC2006_SummaryOfResults.pdf


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## doglet (13/11/06)

Thanks DJR - was just looking for them on the VICBREW website at the exact time you posted.

Congrats to all the entrants who qualified and those who took out places. Hope to hear how the comp went from those who attended on the day.

Cheers :beer:


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## Doc (13/11/06)

Well I'm pretty stoked. I qualified in Belgian with a Dubbel, but the keg had run dry after Bathurst and NSW comps.
As per the rules I was able to enter another beer in the category, so entered a fresh Wit, and it took third. Nice.
The American Barleywine (ala Hill Brewers Guild Imperial Pils didn't go quite as well. The intense flavours are fading. Still happy though.

Thanks to all the organisers.

Beers,
Doc


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## Wreck (13/11/06)

Mine got caned!  I knows theres a bit of subjectivity, but 30 points difference from the NSW comp was a bit of a surprise. Looking forward to reading the judging sheets.

Congrats to all the winners.


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## Steve (13/11/06)

Well done everyone....especially the Canberra Brewers!!
Cheers
Steve


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## Asher (13/11/06)

Niiiice

Even better - I've still got a full keg of the APA to celebrate with !!
....not sure what happened to my Marzen though :unsure: 

Congrats to all

Asher for now


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## ant (13/11/06)

Asher said:


> Niiiice
> 
> Even better - I've still got a full keg of the APA to celebrate with !!
> ....not sure what happened to my Marzen though :unsure:
> ...



Congrats Asher for flying the sandgroper flag high. :beerbang: 

Having had a bit of the marzen on Sat arvo, I have to say I'm a bit surprised too. Must have been some super beers in that dark lager category!


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## Trough Lolly (13/11/06)

Steve said:


> Well done everyone....especially the Canberra Brewers!!
> Cheers
> Steve



Ditto!
I say we celebrate with a few drinks around at Brother Stagger's Inn - well done Craig!
And congrats to all those brewers who actually managed to qualify and enter a beer, let alone those who scored and/or medalled!!

Cheers,
TL


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## Stagger (13/11/06)

Cheers Rowan a very pleasant result I must say, I have had my chest puffed out all day. 

Best of all the Canberra brewers flag has been held high again.


Craig


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## Ross (13/11/06)

Stagger, that's an awesome result - bloody brilliant :super: :super: 

Congrats to all the other place getters as well - Here's hoping Qld has a qualifying comp next year so we can all have a go... B) 

Cheers Ross


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## Spun (13/11/06)

Wreck said:


> Mine got caned!  I knows theres a bit of subjectivity, but 30 points difference from the NSW comp was a bit of a surprise. Looking forward to reading the judging sheets.
> 
> Congrats to all the winners.




Mine too! Although I was expecting as much as I had to submit my Scottish 80/- as a 70/-. I also entered a different 80/- to the one that qualified as it was a bit lower in gravity and therefore closer to the 70/- guidelines, but it may have been an inferior beer. Still I suppose I can say I've got the 2nd best scottish ale in the country. Congratulations to all of the winners, it looks like I'll have to sneak over the Brindabella's one day and steal some of the Canberra Brewers secrets!


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## Maxt (13/11/06)

Well done guys, especially Stagger and Dan.


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## Trent (13/11/06)

Congrats to all the winners. I am very happy with the way I went, congrats to craig and all the canberra brewers, that was a solid showing. Its amazing the points difference between first, second and third, sometimes over 20 points! Wish I coulda been there, musta been some tasty beers. Thanks also to the organisers and helpers who no doubt put in alot of effort. Now looking forwrd to next years qualifiers.
All the best
Trent


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## goatherder (13/11/06)

Congrats to the winners and well done to the comp organisers. I'm very pleased with my results. Here's hoping I'll be back next year to improve.


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## Weizguy (13/11/06)

G'day all.
I was briefly thinking about attending the event, but was talked out of it.
Not sure if I could've handled watching it anyway.

I spoke with Mark Hibberd, by phone, on Sunday a week back (5 Nov) and was advised that the categories will be expanded next year to include the BJCP styles (unless I didn't understand).

In the AABC, I placed similar to the NSW comp, relative to the NSW entries at least. They recorded my Old Ale's final gravity incorrectly. It was 1.001, but they must have found that unbelievable and recorded it as 1.010. Not bad for a dry yeast, though.

Unlike Doc, I didn't have a backup Belgian or French beer to enter.  

Yeah, I've put beer in the Nat comp before, and got caned, with some very negative feedback, so I wasn't expecting much better this time. Surprised to get a place, with a beer that I prob should have tossed 4 years ago (he he). :lol: 

Congrats to all...judges, competitors, winners and Champions. I may see you all next year.

Seth


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## bigfridge (13/11/06)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I spoke with Mark Hibberd, by phone, on Sunday a week back (5 Nov) and was advised that the categories will be expanded next year to include the BJCP styles (unless I didn't understand).



Les,

I must have the same problem understanding as well. This is what we were all told for this years comp.

Or at least this what was said ... the reality appeared a little different.

All that we can hope that it will be next year as this makes it 2 years in a row that the NSW Champion Beer (and brewer) was ineligible to compete in the Nationals due to the style of beer chosen.

At least you could enter it in the NSW comp - even if it was a dead end road.

David


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## Weizguy (13/11/06)

David,

The NSW comp was not a dead end road, but the gateway to a huge open pasture, full of opportunity.  

Hey, I was a multimedia personality for week (newspapers and radio and Centrelink satellite television :lol: ). The local paper wants to do a follow-up story on my Nats results, so I can give my opinion then. You want me to give 'em your phone number?  

This week I found a longneck of the NSW winning ale (Berlinisch weisse), and I'm wondering if I should hang onto it for posterity, for next year's comp (don't need 2, coz I won't be able to enter it in the Nats, ha ha), or take it to work, and blow a few minds (and tastebuds) with a sour ale. Ah, choices, choices...

No beer tonight. That way I won't be crying in it...

Off now to bottle an American wheat ale.

Anyhow, it looks like I got a prize in the Nats, although I won't believe that until it gets here via the highly dubious country postal system. Can anyone say broken trophy? I wanna see trophy photos on this thread (or a new one) soon!

Beerz
Seth out (but not down)


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## /// (13/11/06)

I spoke with Mark Hibberd, by phone, on Sunday a week back (5 Nov) and was advised that the categories will be expanded next year to include the BJCP styles (unless I didn't understand).

Seth 
[/quote]

This has me really suprised. For 5 years there has been laborious discussions to update the comp to integrate and be more relevant. There were some mighty promises to do so this year with adoption of more of the BJCP program, but when the guidlines were released this sadly was not the case and yet more empty promises. (and plagerism)

There is a large group of NSW and ACT brewers who are sitting and passing BJCP exams. These brewers are using this as a well researched and put together reference point. 

And Dave I do need to correct you, next year will be the 3rd year in a row that a NSW brewer cannot enter the Nationals. 

Scotty


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## Doc (30/11/06)

Recieved a very nice engraved beer glass yesterday from the AABC.
Great trophy guys.
Thanks for a great Nationals Comp.

Beers,
Doc


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## AndrewQLD (30/11/06)

bigfridge said:


> Les the Weizguy said:
> 
> 
> > I spoke with Mark Hibberd, by phone, on Sunday a week back (5 Nov) and was advised that the categories will be expanded next year to include the BJCP styles (unless I didn't understand).
> ...




Don't you guys ever give up <_< 

The question can also be asked "Why did the NSW organisers run a qualifying competition for entry into the Nationals with styles and catagories that weren't a part of the national comp?" You all knew what the requirements for the Nationals were so why did you go ahead and judge styles that could not qualify?

This is getting pretty tiring, why not put it down to experience and let it lie!

Cheers
Andrew


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## DJR (30/11/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Don't you guys ever give up <_<



They did - the post was from Nov 13!

Personally i think the nationals were a bit disorganised - got my tasting notes last night and promptly threw them in the bin - the score system was totally different to what was used in NSW (ie. BJCP). Actually i should say i promptly threw them in the bin mostly because of my own disgust with my own results - still, not bad for my 2nd AG beer...

Anyway, let sleeping dogs lie shouldn't we!


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## Keith the Beer Guy (30/11/06)

My scoresheet from the nationals arrived yesterday.

Thanks very much for the work put in. I found the feedback to be clear and consistent and it is much appreciated.

Thanks again.



AndrewQLD said:


> Don't you guys ever give up <_<
> 
> The question can also be asked "Why did the NSW organisers run a qualifying competition for entry into the Nationals with styles and catagories that weren't a part of the national comp?" You all knew what the requirements for the Nationals were so why did you go ahead and judge styles that could not qualify?
> 
> ...



I agree that what is done is done (and as an aside commenting on posts that are weeks old, asking people to let it go may be a little self defeating).

Perhaps, however; now is the time to look to the future.

I for one; am in favour, if it is practical, of making the nationals as inclusive as possible and allowing brewers to brew whatever style they wish to.

The only limitation that I can see, and perhaps I am wrong - anyone care to comment - is that we need judges who have the ability to judge the style of beers entered.

I look forward to hearing other people ideas and thoughts.

Cheers,

Keith


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## warrenlw63 (30/11/06)

Andrew as much as I totally agree with you I think you've probably knocked the scab back off the wound. :blink: 

Warren -


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## bigfridge (30/11/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Andrew as much as I totally agree with you I think you've probably knocked the scab back off the wound. :blink:
> 
> Warren -



Warren,

Luv ya work son


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## AndrewQLD (30/11/06)

bigfridge said:


> warrenlw63 said:
> 
> 
> > Andrew as much as I totally agree with you I think you've probably knocked the scab back off the wound. :blink:
> ...



LOL, that wasn't my intention Warren, it was Docs post today that brought this thread to my attention and I had not seen the posts that I replied to before. It did not even register that they were 2 weeks old, not that it matters much as I would have said the same two weeks ago  .

Cheers
Andrew


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## brewwizard (30/11/06)

G'day Guys.
As I started this National Competition I thought I should add my bit.
Running these things is a thankless job. You can't please all the people 
all the time. Constructive criticism is the best way to help. Attend
meetings and help these guys help you. Commitees DO need to know
what you think but do it without malice. HELP< HELP< HELP !!!!!!
Get a delegation together and put some ideas forward, you have the
forum here.
Off my soapbox now.
Cheers
Colin Penrose :chug:


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## Kai (30/11/06)

Hey Colin,

Thanks!


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## warrenlw63 (30/11/06)

Kai said:


> Hey Colin,
> 
> Thanks!



And bring back Ausbeer. I miss that mag.  

Warren -


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## Barry (30/11/06)

Good Day
Received my score sheets etc and I wish to thank all involved, I really appreciated the time and effort.


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## brewwizard (30/11/06)

Sorry but Ausbeer is dead and gone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some parts of the home brewing industry just
would not back it.
That's life.
Col


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## Weizguy (30/11/06)

Col, (if that's your real name) :lol: 

Are you prepared to name names (or pm me off-forum)?

I received a refund when the magazine went down and I was upset. But whattaya do?

Maybe the brewnation is ready for the mag again. Anyhow, I still have my old issues, and hope to read something from La Pensee again one day.

...nah, thanks for the mag, Colin. Do you still have back-issues?

Back to the topic, I received my 3rd place-Strong ale mug yesterday and have christened it with some aged Potters Oktobefestbier this evening. Mmmm, malty and hoppy.
Stil waiting for the judging sheets, out here in the boonies.

Seth


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## Voosher (1/12/06)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Col, (if that's your real name) :lol:
> 
> Are you prepared to name names (or pm me off-forum)?
> 
> ...



Still O/T...

I would think the place to restart a local Brewmag is online. Some free articles and the juicy centrefold "Bock of the Month" via registration or subscription. Could even scale content for membership.
Print is ridiculously expensive. Cyber is ridiculously cheap.

So who's a starter for AHB Brewmag Edition One? 

Only way I can get back On Topic is to congratulate one and all on both sides of the comp.
Congrats.
:beerbang:


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## sstacey (1/12/06)

I just want to say that I think it is fantastic that we have brew comps and people willing to give their time and effort to make these things happen. It gives us (the brewers) a great opportunity to get feedback on our beers and see how a third party ranks them against other beers. 

Just want to say "cheers" to everyone who is involved in making these comps happen. It is very much appreciated.


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## lonte (5/12/06)

Ross said:


> Stagger, that's an awesome result - bloody brilliant :super: :super:
> 
> Congrats to all the other place getters as well - Here's hoping Qld has a qualifying comp next year so we can all have a go... B)
> 
> Cheers Ross



So, why is there no Qld qualifying comp? What can we do to address this?


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## brewwizard (5/12/06)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Col, (if that's your real name) :lol:
> 
> Are you prepared to name names (or pm me off-forum)?
> 
> ...



Col is my real name. I don't hide.
I won't name names for obvious reasons.
I own a brew shop and they are still around.
I don't have back issues, the publisher would have dumped them by now.
Cheers
Col


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## Weizguy (7/12/06)

G'day Col,

I didn't mean to mean offend. I was having a bit of a lark.

It's good to have you on this forum.

Back to the topic tho'. I've heard, both here and off-forum, that the AABC rules were to be changed for the past 3 years to include more beer styles than the current AABC guidelines.
That being said. It could surely be foreseen that after last year's NSW result, that another sour beer was likely to claim a prize in the NSW state titles this year.

I put to it to all right-thinking forumers that a rule could have been passed to allow a State title winning beer to be entered in the AABC; and if not in the correct category (which doesn't yet exist under their rules), at least in the "specialty" styles instead of being fed a tale of "displacing" other people who had justifiably won the right to enter their beer in that category.
Why not allow a qualifying beer to enter the AABC? Surely the beer won on its own merits, and should be allowed to compete in the AABC on those merits? If it doesn't fit a category, make it eligible to enter another category, instead of excluding a potential winner, or "make it bloody-well fit into a category"!

Are these people adults, or petty children? Puerile is a word that comes to miind. Too busy arguing about long-standing disagreements and in-fighting to see the big picture. It's about the brewers, Boys! For without the Amateur Brewers there is no Amateur Brewers Championship.

Are these AABC guys self-appointed or voted in by a quorum or panel of their peers?
Let's not buy into any anti-BJCP sentiment here, but consider that the BJCP "styles" are a little more inclusive ,and can be adapted to our local (or National) comp without adopting the whole BJCP judging structure, and (if I may say so) Boy's Club/Amway infrastructure. So why do we have the same argument for two consecutive years, with a sour beer in the NSW State comp?

As Warren has said before (in more or less, these words, elsewhere on this forum): Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Now I'm a little concerned that my beer has not won on it's own merits, but is a pawn to create disharmony and rancour, sparking another breakaway pseudo-National title, or another potential National title replacement.

AABC reps? anyone?

I hear that NSW has at least one new AABC rep now, as the previous has quit in protest or disgust.

Les (Disaffected Blabbermouth) Weizguy out


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## Ross (7/12/06)

lonte said:


> So, why is there no Qld qualifying comp? What can we do to address this?



sorry lonte, only just saw your post.
Unfortunately the AABC & the Qld State competetition committee haven't come to an agreement acceptable to both party's - So at the moment we don't have a qualifying comp. To be honest, until something is done which enables EVERY state to enter a national comp, the AABC holds little appeal to me - It's nothing more more than an expanded state comp in it's present form.

cheers Ross


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## AndrewQLD (7/12/06)

Hi Les,

While I feel for you mate I think putting the blame entirely on the AABA is wrong



> Are these AABC guys self-appointed or voted in by a quorum or panel of their peers?



In fact these "AABC guys" are all representatives from the committees of all the State run competitions, no they are not voted in but ARE the only ones who will hold their hands up to be a part of the AABA.
Why don't you become a delegate for NSW? all you have to do is approach your State committee and I am sure they would be happy for your help.



> So why do we have the same argument for two consecutive years, with a sour beer in the NSW State comp?
> 
> As Warren has said before (in more or less, these words, elsewhere on this forum): Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.



Why do you assume that just because NSW decided to have this particular catagory the National comp should have it as well.?
Why didn't NSW learn from the previous years mistake that the catagory being discussed was not a part of the AABC and drop the catagory for this years competition to bring their comp in line with the AABC???

The rules for the AABC were very rigorously debated over some months and ALL state officials were aware of them, putting the blame entirely on the AABA is just unfair, after all, it was the State comp that disregarded the AABC catagories in favour of their own.

I am sorry that you were unable to recieve the recognition you deserved by entering the AABC but in all fairness I think you should also be pointing your finger at the State organisers as well.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Keith the Beer Guy (7/12/06)

Les,

I understand and sympathise with the frustration and angst that you have experienced with your Berliner Weiss.

I too am for a competition that is as inclusive as possible, and when it gets down to it I think the BJCP provides a fairly comprehensive model that with a few Australian tweaks could work well.

My earlier post in this thread was designed to elicit constructive suggestions for moving forward and to get a feel for what the people out there in the brewing land would like to see happen with THEIR state and national comps.

The reason for my interest is that I recently stuck up my hand to act as a rep for NSW on the AABC committee.

Stuster kicked off a new thread that I think we should use to discuss this issue further:

And I would encourage as many people as possible to voice an opinion, these comps are for us, the brewers, if you don't speak up then no one is going to know what you want.

Happy Brewing,

Keith


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## Stuster (7/12/06)

Fair points, Andrew. It seems better that the categories for the National and State comps should be the same, reducing the government as Warren suggested. As I suggested in the other thread on this, why not just use the BJCP categories? Combine categories if necessary to cut down the number of flights to judge. Standardise it absolutely, but all beers should be included. Why not have a specialty beer category, cat 23? It appears that brewing in Australia is changing. I don't expect judges to be able to second guess what brewers are going to brew, but including such a category would avoid this problem.

It would also help to avoid another issue that arose this year concerning one of my beers among others. My beer was an American Rye and it could have been judged with the Australian wheat beers without much of a drama (it wouldn't have done that well anyway, but I'm thinking more for the future). I was told this was not acceptable because then there would be four NSW entries in that category. However, in most comps you get different numbers of entries in each category. The organisers in other comps don't reject entries after they get a certain number for each category and I can't see much difference personally.

Enough ramble. Hopefully a constructive waffle rather than critical.


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## Weizguy (9/12/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Hi Les,
> 
> While I feel for you mate I think putting the blame entirely on the AABA is wrong
> In fact these "AABC guys" are all representatives from the committees of all the State run competitions, no they are not voted in but ARE the only ones who will hold their hands up to be a part of the AABA.
> ...



Thanks for your heartfelt reply Andrew. I didn't realise that I was allocating blame to anyone. I thought that I was raising questions and awareness of what appears to be a longstanding issue. Now I am ready to start laying blame.

It also appears that, within the AABA, there has been an ongoing and laboured debate on the inclusiveness issue.

It seems to me that if you can buy a beer style commercially in this country, people will be interested in tasting it and probably making it. If it's almost impossible to buy an imported Kolsch, why is it an accepted style? Whereas a American Rye or Berliner weisse also cannot be bought here (well, maybe at Redoak - no affiliation), but recipes are freely available, but the AABC has demonstrated that they do not exist by their summary exclusion from the latest AABC event.
If I want to try a beer style but I can't get hold of a commecial example, I'll brew one... and then if I am pleased enough with the result to consider that it matches the style guidelines for the beer, why can't I enter it in a competition?? ...and then if it does well in that comp and qualifies to go on to the next level of judging by National judges, why does it suddenly not exist???

...and further, if a number of beers from one State seems to be singled out for exclusion, even though the AABC rules (in Section D1 - Qualification) state that "The organisers reserve the right to re-classify non-conforming beers (i.e. in a non-listed style) to a listed AABC style", without reserving the right to exclude entries outright, is that a display of "Natural Justice"?
But wait, there's more: Is it unfair (as mentioned by Stu, above) to brewers who have qualified in their category, to have another entry reclassified and added into your category, thus increasing the number of entries from one State in that category? There appears to be no rule excluding this. And is exclusion of a State winner more fair than inclusion of it as an extra entry into a fully-subscribed category?

Sounds to me like someone is pulling strings and being a (dare I say) pissant to both NSW competitors and the NSW delegates.

Andrew, based on your comment about NSW "learning" from it's "mistake", I'd have to say that you are contributing to the alleged problem, rather than working to resolve it.
Can anyone righteously say that a group of independent, qualified beer judges (albeit from NSW) can make the same "mistake" two years in a row, in selecting an AABC-excluded style as Best of Show?? Surely that smacks of paranoia and conspiracy theory. Of course, NSW will pick these beers, not because they are quality beers, but because they want to upset the AABC, in order to obtain a change to the rules. That's how I answer your question and dare to "assume that just because NSW decided to have this particular catagory the National comp should have it as well".

It seems to me that a bunch of stodgy, bureaucrat-minded stalwarts do not want to move into the future with the rest of Australia's brew community. Is it so hard to get good help in organising the AABA committee (now there's a scary word). I'd also put it to other forum members that it's easy to see in which camp you park your bus, Andrew.

Is it any wonder that NSW have been looking for new blood to help out, as the previous dedicated individuals have been frustrated at every (or so it seems) turn. I have good info that there was an undertaking to update the style guidelines for this year's AABC, yet this was reneged. Are these the sort of people that we want running the show?. Now, at least one NSW rep has quit in disgust and frustration.
I'd put my hand up in a nanosecond if I believed that I could make a difference to the constipated set of rules. Good luck Keith, and may God be on your side. I know that you are good with words and a convincing debater, but I'm afraid that a similar style has been used in the past, to zero effect.

I feel that it's time for a big change, and now that there are already a number of pseudo-National competitions currently running, can the AABA finally get the hint that something is rotten in the state of Denmark (or some other state?). Maybe some of these guys who "put their hand up" should put it down and give someone else a go. Maybe someone younger, but definitely someone who's willing to make a decision and make some changes and take the AABC into the future instead of stagnating. Remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Ask yourself: "Is it about the beer and the brewers, or is it about the politics"?
Why exclude a beer (and there was no argument that it wasn't beer) from a National reckoning of beer, based on your politics of styles? There was leeway within the rules to include *all* excluded entries.

Now, grow up and play nice with the big boys or go to your bedroom, lest I finally give in and mention "the war".

Oh, by the way Andrew, I'm not sure why you felt the need to call me mate, and I feel for you if you're *that* lonely.

Seth out


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## Kai (9/12/06)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I put to it to all right-thinking forumers that a rule could have been passed to allow a State title winning beer to be entered in the AABC; and if not in the correct category (which doesn't yet exist under their rules), at least in the "specialty" styles instead of being fed a tale of "displacing" other people who had justifiably won the right to enter their beer in that category.



An excellent and seemingly simple idea. I like it.



> Are these people adults, or petty children? Puerile is a word that comes to miind. Too busy arguing about long-standing disagreements and in-fighting to see the big picture. It's about the brewers, Boys! For without the Amateur Brewers there is no Amateur Brewers Championship.



Harsh, way harsh. They are not petty nor peurile, they are a committee. An as much as I know it is being rubbed in, they are a volunteer committee. That's not a thankless task, but it's certainly one that few people will step up to. I hope you've made a reasonable attempt to contact the committees involved to sort out this debacle.



> Let's not buy into any anti-BJCP sentiment here, but consider that the BJCP "styles" are a little more inclusive ,and can be adapted to our local (or National) comp without adopting the whole BJCP judging structure, and (if I may say so) Boy's Club/Amway infrastructure. So why do we have the same argument for two consecutive years, with a sour beer in the NSW State comp?



Unless I am misunderstanding here, it's worth remembering that a BJCP-sanctioned competition does not necessarily include all the BJCP styles and can even encompass non-BJCP style guidelines -- a factor I feel is very important in Australian competition. I don't see that even adapting BJCP structure would solve the problem presented here.


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## AndrewQLD (9/12/06)

Hi Les,
I have just spent an hour going through all my relevant documents and emails from the AABA and delegates. I wrote a fairly long winded reply to your post showing how the AABA tried to accommodate the entries from NSW that did not have any catagories in the AABC, and then I thought, this is just going to go around and around and around. So I deleted the thread. 
It's pointless trying to explain any further as you obviously have your mind set.



> It seems to me that a bunch of stodgy, bureaucrat-minded stalwarts do not want to move into the future with the rest of Australia's brew community. Is it so hard to get good help in organising the AABA committee (now there's a scary word). I'd also put it to other forum members that it's easy to see in which camp you park your bus, Andrew.
> and
> 
> I'd put my hand up in a nanosecond if I believed that I could make a difference to the constipated set of rules. Good luck Keith, and may God be on your side. I know that you are good with words and a convincing debater, but I'm afraid that a similar style has been used in the past, to zero effect.



Thanks for the compliment :blink:. You seem to be quite happy for other people to attempt the changes to the AABC that YOU want, but you aren't prepared to make the effort yourself, if you are REALLY so passionate about the problems with the AABC then get on the committee.

I really don't think there is anymore meaningful comments I can add the this disscussion.

Cheers
Andrew


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## bigfridge (9/12/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Hi Les,
> I have just spent an hour going through all my relevant documents and emails from the AABA and delegates.



Hi Andrew,

There have been a number of calls to "blame the organisers of the NSW comp" for causing this problem, however, one important point gets continually overlooked.

NSW actively participated in the discussion in December last year, leading up to the vote to adopt the BJCP guidelines. The actions voted on were:

"1. We use the BJCP descriptors as our standard, instead of formulating our own. (but reserve the right to change this in future, if so decided)
2. The second is we add to it some Australian styles, that are yet to be determined.
3. The third is we try to get the BJCP to adopt and incorporate the Aussie styles we agree on.
4. What we do with the style guidelines, what we include, how we group them, etc, all comes later."

The states then proceeded to organise their competitions on this basis. 

In July, this year we were advised that:

"Categories this year will be similar to last year with some minor changes to remove the major points of contention (e.g. removing Trappist, adopting the BJCP style descriptions in most cases). Michael G and myself have been working on this. There's not enough time to do more for this year's competition. Any discussion on categories (which I'm sure there'll be) should be aimed at what should happen for next year's competitions"

So what happened to the 4 step action plan agreed to ? I know that this caused a number of states problems as organisation for their comps was well advanced.

Through all this NSW made it very clear how we saw that things could be improved and offered our approach as an example of how we had overcome some of the perceived problems. I wonder if any of those voting had actually looked at our published sytles and categories.

Throughout all this we thought that we were voting for the adoption of the BJCP style guidelines for qualifying comps, not the restricted set of styles that were rushed out just before this years 'comp season'.

Looking back perhaps we were a little naive to think that such a radical change was possible.

Andrew, this will be my last word on this issue. If you can't see by now that NSW was not trying to deceive its brewers, cheat or get an unfair advantage - perhaps you never will. We did not realise that we were voting for a restrictive set of styles as all the discussion was focused on improving the system for the benefit of brewers.

Good Brewing,
David

AABA representative for NSW (Retired)


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## AndrewQLD (9/12/06)

> Andrew, this will be my last word on this issue. If you can't see by now that NSW was not trying to deceive its brewers, cheat or get an unfair advantage - perhaps you never will. We did not realise that we were voting for a restrictive set of styles as all the discussion was focused on improving the system for the benefit of brewers.
> 
> Good Brewing,
> David



David,

Nowhere have I ever said or insinuated that NSW ever deceived, cheated or got an unfair advantage and I never will. To be honest I have never even thought that and it surprises me that you would say such a thing.

I fully realise that NSW are doing the best for their brewers and are trying to further the Australian amatuer brewing competition as are we all, and none of my comments have been intended as a personal slight against any of the organisers or competitions. Hopefully this and other discussions will rouse the other AABA delegates into getting a set of styles and catagories in place early enough for all the State comps to adopt and have as their own.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Weizguy (9/12/06)

G'day again.

I wanted to make it clear that I would prefer to see the BJCP styles, not wholly adopted, but adapted, to include Aussie styles to which the BJCP seems oblivious, as well as the inclusivity of other styles.
What if I wanted to make a Gose? Would I have to put it into specialty/other, even though it's a style, rather than a copy of a specific brand or make of beer?

Andrew, I'd like to see that info you were going to post, and I'm sending you a pm. As I mentioned, being part of the solution means that one should not remain part of the problem. I do not want to contribute to the problem. I think I'm intelligent enough to get a handle on the situation, once I have access to relevant info. 

Relevant info...that was another point I'd like to make. There seems to be a closed shop mentality here. Is it not reasonable to expect input from the brewing community re the rules they want in their National comp and its governing body. I don't recall any input being sought on this forum, from a group of, what I like to think of as erudite brewers.

I'm not attacking you, Andrew, but I am questioning your attitude. I'd like to see a bit more openness and transparency from the AABA. And, as I mentioned, if some of the "delegates" are in a position where they've done their best, or done all that they're willing to do, it's time to stand down and give someone else a go. I perceive the current situation as infighting and a lot of gamesmanship between delegates who are meant to be working together for the benefit of all. Am happy for clarification and detail if available.

Best of luck next year with the organisation of the Qld comp. Please keep us all informed on this forum and elsewhere.

Seth/Les/the guy with the Berliner weissbier 
* edited to add clarifying content (2 words only)


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (26/2/08)

The recipe book from this comp arrived today, better late than never.
It was worth waiting for, well put together and all the best recipes in the country. 
Thanks to all involved.


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## Barry (26/2/08)

I received the booklet today. A great resource. Thanks to Mark and all involved. :beer:


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## Ray_Mills (26/2/08)

Hi
Well this is the first I have known about it, hope the IBU's get a copy for all thier work
Cheers
Ray
Oh....just realised it was 2006, bugger and sorry, but the book would be good


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## Doc (26/2/08)

Received my Recipe Booklet today too.
Had to flick to the results to see what beers I entered into the nationals in 2006.
Looks like a good resource. Definitely some bus reading 
A rather professional looking layout too. Great job Mark. Worth the wait.

Beers,
Doc


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## Guest Lurker (26/2/08)

Yes, well done, must have a good read


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## Mark H (12/3/08)

FYI, the 2006 booklet was sent to entrants, judges and sponsors of VicBrew 2006 and AABC2006 - "70 beer recipes from 50 of Australia's best amateur brewers".
You can purchase copies from a few Melbourne homebrew shops or on-line from Grain & Grape for $9.95 plus postage. The 2006 booklet isn't in their catalogue yet but they have copies - just ask. See http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/index.php?cPath=1_13&&page=3



Retailers interested in stocking the booklet should contact the editor at 
mhibberd cat melbpc dog org dog au

Cheers, Mark.


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