# I'm After A Orange And Chocolate Beer Recipe



## jeddog (5/7/09)

I wanting to do a orange and chocolate beer this Saturday. 
It just sounds so nice, mmmmmmmmmmmm "Jaffa Beer" 
Yardy has spoken on another thread about a orange and chocolate wheat he has done (still waiting for the recipe).  
Would this work as a stout or porter, rather than a wheat?
Has anyone on this forum had a go at it?
Can someone help me with a recipe (All Grain)

jeddog


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## pdilley (5/7/09)

I forgot the name of the school but they have a Brewing class in England and they are brewing just this. Based upon the "Chocolate Orange" confectionary as the base of the recipe.

However it has been 6+ months since I read it so no hope in hell of remembering the name of the site except that it was in the UK. So if you use Google-Fu and search all UK sites for " beer brewing chocolate orange " as the words you may get a hit!

Otherwise, hopefully someone local can come through with a jaffa recipe.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Steve (5/7/09)

Sorry - cant help with the recipe, but its sounds as if it would suit a stout. Sounds delicious. Let us know how you go.
Cheers
Steve


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## newguy (5/7/09)

Haven't done one myself but this is what I'd do. I've tasted a lot of chocolate beers but the two that stood out had real (expensive) dark chocolate bars tossed in the kettle. Give the chocolate 5 minutes to soften then stir and ensure that you scrape the bottom. I was present when a friend brewed one and when we drained the kettle there was the bar - quite intact. He got a lot of chocolate flavour though. Don't worry about oils & head retention - it will turn out fine. Aim for one large bar for a 20l batch (not sure how many grams that would be as I don't buy bars often).

The other that stands out not only added chocolate but also threw a vanilla bean in the fermenter about a week after brewing. Vanilla and chocolate enhance each other in so many ways.

For the orange flavour I'd just add orange peels like I was brewing a wit. I'd personally use the peels from between 3 - 6 oranges for the last 5 minutes of the boil. I use fresh orange peels for my wits; I don't bother drying them. The flavour and aroma is superior to that obtained using the prepackaged dried orange peel - at least I think so.

As far as what kind of beer, I'd go with a brown porter. You could pull this off with a stout but you'd have to go real easy on the roasted barley otherwise it will fight the orange and probably win. Just aim for a 1.050ish OG, maybe 20-25 IBU at most and try to avoid roasted barley. I'm sure others will chime in but look through the recipe DB for porters and pick something that looks good.


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## yardy (5/7/09)

jeddog said:


> Yardy has spoken on another thread about a orange and chocolate wheat he has done (still waiting for the recipe).




gday jed,

check your inbox bud  , pretty sure i replied telling you the recipe is in _*'what's in the glass'*_

here it is again for ya if you want it but it's choc malt though mate, not actual chocolate.

2.400 Pils
2.400 Wheat
0.100 Choc Malt
15gm Nthn Brwr @ 60
15gm Perle @ 10
i used 23 gm orange zest @ 5 min but go more easily.

it's a nice beer, nothing special about it though.


Yard


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## jeddog (5/7/09)

Sorry Yardy,
I read you PM wrong and thought it was "*I'II"* post the recipe after more intersest, not, "*I"* posted the recipe after more interest....  

I'm looking more of a brown porter at the moment. 
Did the orange stand out as much as you wanted? 
I was thinking of adding 50 gm orange zest @ 5min for a 40Lt batch and using cascade hops for the citrus character...Maybe something like this:

Batch Size: 40.00 L 
Boil Size: 47.96 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 55.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.33 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 62.27 % 
0.89 kg Flaked Oats (2.0 EBC) Grain 10.39 % 
0.89 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 10.38 % 
0.58 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 6.78 % 
0.40 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.67 % 
0.29 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 3.39 % 
0.18 kg Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 2.12 % 
18.84 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (60 min) Hops 8.1 IBU 
18.84 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (40 min) Hops 7.1 IBU 
18.84 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (20 min) Hops 4.9 IBU 
1.00 items Immersion Chiller (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
50.00 gm Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5min) Misc 
1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast-Ale

even some dark cooking chocolate @ 60 boil


she look OK?


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## altone (5/7/09)

jeddog said:


> I'm looking more of a brown porter at the moment.
> Did the orange stand out as much as you wanted?
> I was thinking of adding 50 gm orange zest @ 5min for a 40Lt batch and using cascade hops for the citrus character...



Mmmm not really a dark brew person but the thought of a choc/orange porter has me interested.
Hope to see your results posted soon.


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## j1gsaw (5/7/09)

jeddog said:


> Sorry Yardy,
> I read you PM wrong and thought it was "*I'II"* post the recipe after more intersest, not, "*I"* posted the recipe after more interest....
> 
> I'm looking more of a brown porter at the moment.
> ...



This looks great... very keen to see how it goes.. Id use Choc Chit malt personally..


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## Screwtop (5/7/09)

Only one source for such a recipe IMO. Ross

He blew quite a few brewing minds with just such a brew in 2007 if I remember correctly. Try a PM.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Jye (5/7/09)

Screwtop said:


> Only one source for such a recipe IMO. Ross



I was thinking of Mr Connery for a recipe but I now remember Rosscos beer... a very nice orange choc porter yummers :icon_cheers:


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## Ross (5/7/09)

This was and still is a fasinating beer, as i still have some left in the keg after 2 years...the flavour switches between orange & chocolate as it warms.

Sour Orange Chocolate Porter 

Type: All Grain
Date: 31/07/2007 
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 35.31 L
Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 59.09 % 
1.00 kg Caramalt (Barrett Burston) (49.3 EBC) Grain 11.82 % 
1.00 kg Munich Malt II (23.0 EBC) Grain 11.82 % 
0.60 kg Brown Malt (128.1 EBC) Grain 7.09 % 
0.35 kg Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 4.14 % 
0.17 kg Carafa II (811.6 EBC) Grain 2.02 % 
0.17 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1000.8 EBC) Grain 2.02 % 
0.17 kg Chocolate Malt pale (886.5 EBC) Grain 2.02 % 
45.00 gm Galena [12.90 %] (60 min) Hops 45.7 IBU 
0.50 kg Dark chocolate 72% cocoa (Boil 80.0 min) Misc 
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
400.00 ml Sour orange juice (5 oranges) (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale 

Measured Original Gravity: 1.076 SG 
Final Gravity: 1.020 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.33 % 

Cheers Ross


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## Screwtop (5/7/09)

Jye said:


> I was thinking of Mr Connery for a recipe but I now remember Rosscos beer... a very nice orange choc porter yummers :icon_cheers:




Both make beers that "play with your mind". Unlike the good doctor's beers, containing mind altering IBU numbers :lol:

Screwy


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## clean brewer (5/7/09)

Just punched this into Beersmith, will be on my brew list.. :icon_cheers: Got some nice Coverture Chocolate at work, only 55% though..

:icon_cheers: CB


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## Tiny_Tim (7/7/09)

How about using Simcoe hops instead of, or in combination with Cascade. Simcoe has a distinctly choc-orange aroma imo.


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## Justin (7/7/09)

I've had an american pale ale brewed with 5lbs for 5 gallons of quartered fresh oranges, just thrown in the last 5 mins of the boil. It worked surprisingly well.

Regarding beer style, I'd maybe go for something like a schwartz beer recipe, brewed with an ale yeast for simplicity, but basically a smooth malt driven beer like a schwarzbier would work well. The key is Weyermann Carafa III.

In fact, I might brew something like this next. I feel like brewing something different.

Cheer, JD


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## bconnery (7/7/09)

Jye said:


> I was thinking of Mr Connery for a recipe but I now remember Rosscos beer... a very nice orange choc porter yummers


Before Ross posted his recipe I was going to say don't forget that Ross's uses the sour oranges, not quite the same as a 'plain' choc orange beer. 
Very very nice beer though, even if he did wuss out and cut the sour levels with some vanilla  

A choc orange beer would work very well though. 
I'd recommend taking the effort to caramelize a little of the juice and rind with some sugar. It might get hidden in a choc beer but it works well with the orange in my book. 

One day I might make something similar to Ross's with the sour oranges, especially as the new seasons fruit is ready, but it's hard for me to go away from the flanders reddish version with the saison or other belgian yeast though...


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## jeddog (8/7/09)

Here's what I've got for Saturday's brew. Going to order some stuff from Ross in the morning.

If you can see any problems i may have, please let me know

here it is


Jaffa Porter

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L 
Boil Size: 47.96 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 46.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.51 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 64.44 % 
0.92 kg Flaked Oats (2.0 EBC) Grain 10.76 % 
0.92 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 10.74 % 
0.43 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 5.09 % 
0.41 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.84 % 
0.22 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 2.54 % 
0.14 kg Carafa Special II (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 1.59 % 
25.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (60 min) Hops 10.7 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (40 min) Hops 9.4 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade [7.80 %] (20 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 
1.00 kg Dark Cooking Chocolate (Boil 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Immersion Chiller (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tbsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
50.00 gm Orange Peel, (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast-Ale

1.00 item Vanilla bean in fermenter after 5 days

jeddog


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## yardy (9/7/09)

jeddog said:


> Sorry Yardy,
> I read you PM wrong and thought it was "*I'II"* post the recipe after more intersest, not, "*I"* posted the recipe after more interest....



no worries mate, good luck with the choccy brew, let us know how it turns out.

Yard


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## jeddog (20/7/09)

Well I brewed the Jaffa Porter about a week and a half ago (Saturday before last). Had alsorts of trouble, including a stuck sparge. It took near an hour to finish my sparge and ended 40Lts with an SG of 1.039. After nine days fermenting @19C the SG is only down to 1.014 giving me ABV of 3.25%. 

Is there any way i can bring down the SG?
Will upping the ferment temp help?
Will gaving it an almighty stir help?


jeddog


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## yardy (20/7/09)

jeddog said:


> Is there any way i can bring down the SG?
> Will upping the ferment temp help?
> Will gaving it an almighty stir help?
> 
> ...



yeah jed, imo doing both will get a couple of extra points out of it, the majority of the ferment is complete so bringing it up to say 25*C won't have any detrimental effect, give the fermenter a good shake/swirl but watch you don't draw any of the airlock fluid into the brew, a blowoff hose running to a container is good here  

Yard


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## boostin (23/8/09)

jeddog said:


> Well I brewed the Jaffa Porter about a week and a half ago (Saturday before last). Had alsorts of trouble, including a stuck sparge. It took near an hour to finish my sparge and ended 40Lts with an SG of 1.039. After nine days fermenting @19C the SG is only down to 1.014 giving me ABV of 3.25%.
> 
> Is there any way i can bring down the SG?
> Will upping the ferment temp help?
> ...



How did this turn out?


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## jeddog (23/8/09)

CRAP :icon_vomit: 
Just poured the first 20lts onto the garden (needed the keg for a Kabooby's Mocha Porter i'm about to try, love this recipe).

No head retention, had a head like a pot coke.
Too much oil from the chocolate, i think
I still have another 20Lts that i just can't bring myself to piffing away

If i was to try it again i would use Kabooby's Mocha Porter recipe and add some orange zest and thats it...

O well, thats brewing. Ya gotta try these things, if yaou don't you will never know...

cheers


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## geoff_tewierik (23/8/09)

What was the actual taste like?


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## jeddog (23/8/09)

could'nt get passed the no head thing.......

still got 20lts of the stuff left, I'll get back to you...................

cheers


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## manticle (15/9/09)

Considering you want the chocolate flavour and any sugar will ferment out why not just add in good quality cocoa? Top quality chocolate is mainly cocoa anyway - if you liike the milk chocolate flavour then chuck in a bit of lactose as well.

Avoid the fat I reckon.


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## manticle (15/9/09)

And the post I was replying to disappeared.


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## Uncle Fester (15/9/09)

manticle said:


> And the post I was replying to disappeared.



Sorry - I read further and decided to restart my question.....

Do you think the head retention was crucified by the anount of chocolate? I was thinking of doing a choc porter and using 250G of dark choc. GMK recomended skimming the boil.

aiming at a post boil volume of 22 litres. Would 250G be too much?


As always, comments welcomed, yours especially Manticle!


BTW, cocoa leavesa very bitter result I believe (stand by to be corrected though)


Fester


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## manticle (15/9/09)

I'm definitely not an expert and the only chocolate flavours I've had in homebrewed beers have been either from organic cocoa or choc malt. However consider that chocolate is made up of different proportions of cocoa/cacao (which is bitter) sugar (which is fermentable and shouldn't affect flavour), fat (which supposedly affects head retention and otherwise adds nothing beneficial to a brew) and milk (which contains unfermentable sugar that may add sweetness and balance the cocoa bitterness as well as fat).

Which elements are desirable in a chocolate beer? Choc flavour with a hint of bitterness certainly. Some sweetness quite possibly. Richness most likely.

Take cocoa (high quality) and lactose and mix with some steeped choc malt. You will get these desirable elements. However add fat and you run the risk of destroying your results. Sugar is neither here nor there except in calculating your exact gravity which may not matter so much.

My advice, to be taken with a grain of malt is EITHER brew with lactose and cocoa and maybe some choc/choc chit malt OR split the batch and compare the effect (one with choc, the other with cocoa etc). At least you know then that some of the beer will definitely be unaffected by too much oil.

By the way - in terms of bitterness (which is not out of place in a brew) - I think it must depend on how much is used. My extract stouts that I made were milk stouts and they were quite sweet. I could taste the choc but it was certainly not overpowering. You want a hint rather than a whole Brazilian farm.

I'd eat the chocolate personally.


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