# Kevin Rudds Home Brewing Bonus



## clean brewer (15/10/08)

Hello all,

Well, wasnt I excited to hear about Kevin Rudds Bonus he is handing out for Xmas, for myself, once I heard about it I had to stop and count all the kids Ive got, shit, only 2 ($1000 per child = $2000)..  

So considering I wasnt expecting this money (i dont think anyone was), I will be trying to convince my lovely partner for both of us to have $1000 each. If that gets the green light, I will be boosting the Home Brewing economy with my share and purchasing some/alot of goodies.. :beerbang: 

Now, I call on all Parents and Pensioners to do the same, keep the Home Brew dream alive... :beer: 

How much will you be getting to spend? Nice bonus if you have 4,5, 6 or more children..


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## drsmurto (15/10/08)

I am getting diddly squat. <_<


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## therook (15/10/08)

clean brewer said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Well, wasnt I excited to hear about Kevin Rudds Bonus he is handing out for Xmas, for myself, once I heard about it I had to stop and count all the kids Ive got, shit, only 2 ($1000 per child = $2000)..
> 
> ...




Is that only for people under 100K

Rook


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## warra48 (15/10/08)

That's fantastic for all of you lot still in the breeding programme.

Maybe I can claim it for my grandchild due in about 5 weeks?

What about us self-funded retirees then? We're several houses past the first home buying stage. Kids grown up and left home. Not dependent on you taxpayers for our income. Obviously, Rudd & Co must think we are all so wealthy they can ignore us. But we feel the pain as much as anyone else. Have you seen the price of malt and hops, oh those hop prices, and the way they have gone skywards?

It's not fair, I tells ya. It's a blooming disgrace. Just because we are getting a little past middle age, they think they can ignore us. Well, just you wait Rudd & Co, just you wait. There will be an election coming sometime, and then we'll see whether you should have ignored us.


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## Paul H (15/10/08)

Unfortunately I don't live in "Struggle Street" so nothing for me either.

Cheers

Paul


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## ~MikE (15/10/08)

yeah doesn't look like there's a lot for non-family/pensioner people, though i'll probably be happy when i eventually get around to buying a house. 

not going right into the policy but it seems like, in recent years, there's no incentive for planning for one's retirement, holding off having kids until one's financially sound and buying a house one can afford... but i probably wouldn't be so wingy if i were part of the major voter demographic :lol:


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## petesbrew (15/10/08)

Got me excited initially, but I'll believe it when I see it.

It's all screwed up when your wife works part time as well.

Bluddy Rudd.


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## mje1980 (15/10/08)

clean brewer said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Well, wasnt I excited to hear about Kevin Rudds Bonus he is handing out for Xmas, for myself, once I heard about it I had to stop and count all the kids Ive got, shit, only 2 ($1000 per child = $2000)..
> 
> ...




Have i missed something?? i have 2 kids and in desperate need of a beer engine and a new surfboard ( well maybe not in NEED, but SERIOUS WANT is close enough ), so that'd be sweet!.


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## Fourstar (15/10/08)

Besides the tax reduction for low income earners given by K-Rudd in July, this bonus has scored me nada.

So much for cashing up Gen-Y.. not like were the future of the country or anything.


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## Bizier (15/10/08)

Do my fermenters count as children?
I am the proud parent of hungry sextuplets.


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## Katherine (15/10/08)

> Do my fermenters count as children?
> I am the proud parent of hungry sextuplets. /quote]
> 
> Im sure your partner had a lovely time pushing them out...


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## Paul H (15/10/08)

On a positive note the bonus to pensioners will provide my pet food stocks a well earnt boost :icon_cheers: 

Cheers

PAul


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## Polar Beer (15/10/08)

I dont qualify for tax benefit A > no $2000 for me

Just bought a house 2 months ago > no extra $7000 for me there either

No Howard > Priceless


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## Pennywise (15/10/08)

Quick, go home and root yer missus, it'll prolly take em' 9 months to pass it anyway (the money hand out that is  ), sadly i'm only getting the $1000, ATM h34r:


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## Polar Beer (15/10/08)

warra48 said:


> That's fantastic for all of you lot still in the breeding programme.
> 
> Maybe I can claim it for my grandchild due in about 5 weeks?
> 
> ...



yeh Warra. The baby boomers have really had it tough over the course. <_< 

Try lugging around a 5 figure Uni debt, a mortgage for an outer suburban house that would buy half of inner Melbourne 15 years ago, child care & and the inevitable taxes and lifestyle changes required due to global warming (bought but not paid for by previous generations).

I'm appreciate your predicament, but I am struggling to be sympathetic


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## ~MikE (15/10/08)

P & L Brazil said:


> I dont qualify for tax benefit A > no $2000 for me
> 
> Just bought a house 2 months ago > no extra $7000 for me there either
> *
> No Howard > Priceless*



that doesn't make sense, but Howard *was *just as bad with discriminatory vote grabbing bonuses


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## hockadays (15/10/08)

therook said:


> Is that only for people under 100K
> 
> Rook



Yep if you earn over 100k your a millionare, apparently. :huh:


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## cdbrown (15/10/08)

Bah - not expecting till Feb so will miss out on the xmas hand out and also miss out on the damn baby bonus because it becomes means tested. Why did I come back to Aus and pay all this tax. Should have stayed in the uk earning more, paying less tax, travelling to mainland europe every month for a holiday.


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## Bizier (15/10/08)

cdbrown said:


> Bah - not expecting till Feb so will miss out on the xmas hand out and also miss out on the damn baby bonus because it becomes means tested. Why did I come back to Aus and pay all this tax. Should have stayed in the uk earning more, paying less tax, travelling to mainland europe every month for a holiday.



Hehe, I know I got EU citizenship for a reason... Less tax, more beer!


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## PostModern (15/10/08)

Fourstar said:


> Besides the tax reduction for low income earners given by K-Rudd in July, this bonus has scored me nada.
> 
> So much for cashing up Gen-Y.. not like were the future of the country or anything.



You're missing an apostrophe there. 

Gen-Y breeders are the future, not you childless people.

I get nada from this package either. My Mrs went back to work last year after making three members of Gen Z, so we no longer qualify  Three gorillas gone begging.

This "throw the surplus to the populous" spending spree is interesting. On one hand, I like it, but once the surplus is gone, it's gone!


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## Paul H (15/10/08)

P & L Brazil said:


> Try lugging around a 5 figure Uni debt, a mortgage for an outer suburban house that would buy half of inner Melbourne 15 years ago, child care & and the inevitable taxes and lifestyle changes required due to global warming (bought but not paid for by previous generations).
> 
> I'm appreciate your predicament, but I am struggling to be sympathetic



Education was/is never free someone always has to pay for it, at least with HECS it's a user pays system. I started uni the year HECS was introduced.

Cheers

PAul


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## Polar Beer (15/10/08)

Paul H said:


> I started uni the year HECS was introduced.



Terrible timing Paul

Of course the uni's are not donating their time. But the govt paid model as opposed to the current user pays model, did not burden a generation with massive debt. Comparing a free student with HECS student (financially), the HECS student is significantly worse off. 
The main point being, baby boomers have been well and truly looked after and no doubt will continue to be.


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## Bizier (15/10/08)

And to rub salt in they now call it HELP - Ha!


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## Katherine (15/10/08)

Boo HOO!


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## bconnery (15/10/08)

P & L Brazil said:


> Terrible timing Paul
> 
> Of course the uni's are not donating their time. But the govt paid model as opposed to the current user pays model, did not burden a generation with massive debt. Comparing a free student with HECS student (financially), the HECS student is significantly worse off.
> The main point being, baby boomers have been well and truly looked after and no doubt will continue to be.


The original HECS model did not burden you with massive debt. It was the massive increases that came later that did that. 
It was quite reasonable to pay off your degree when working, and if you had the funds to pay ahead of time with very good discounts. 
I completed my degree before the massive rises that came and with being able to pay the first year up front I had my debt paid off very quickly. 

I think the HECS system, in it's original form, worked very well. 

I always found it annoying that those who'd received free education were the politicians arguing that numerous 25% increases were necessary and justified. 
I also had issues with uni's stating that they had to increase fees by this level to cover costs, then running ad campaigns during prime time television featuring the likes of 'Hurricane Carter' and Bob Geldof to name a few. You can't tell me that was cheap...

On topic, even though this looks like being another of those threads , I dont' pretend to understand economics but I do know that after all the hits of high interest rates, rising prices, doom and gloom from the possible collapse of a system that appears to a layman to have been caused by rich b.... being very greedy and questionable business practices it's nice to get something in my pocket!

I have two kids and qualify for part A so that should mean a nice bonus for our family.


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

PostModern said:


> You're missing an apostrophe there.
> 
> Gen-Y breeders are the future, not you childless people.
> 
> ...



Well, the purpose of a surplus is essentially to have 'cash on hand' for a rainy day. If the current economic crisis isn't a good reason to spend the surplus, I don't know what is, This is called pump priming, it's a widely used tactic, and the Australian government is well placed to be able to pay for it (unlike the US, which now has a national debt of $10tr)



Paul H said:


> Education was/is never free someone always has to pay for it, at least with HECS it's a user pays system. I started uni the year HECS was introduced.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> PAul



Congratulations! Imagine if you started now, your debt would be what, 500% higher?


Anyways, for those who missed out, well that's what happens. There needs to be a way of deermining who gets the money and who doesn't, we don't really live in a system like in Futurama where everyone gets a magic $500 bill (though that would be pretty cool). For pensioners, there is an investigation regarding lifting the singles pension happening right now, it is expected to deliver its report. As the single pension is a percentage of the couples pension (well, that's what I heard, please correct me if I'm wrong), it will propose another lift to the couples pension, coupled with a rise in the agregate percentage of the single age pension, and possibly some other goodies along with it. It will come with economic modeling- costs, projected costs, etc etc. It will be well thought out and planned, and it will blow anything the opposition has out of the water. It's a nice change from the ad-hoc policies of the former coalition government.

For those like me who are in/just out of uni/tafe and have no children, well this is the legacy of the Howard government which needs to be shaken off- that you are useless if you don't breed. Pity it's the people who are least equipped to do it who are listening the most (and if you ARE well equipped to have a kid and are taking advantage of it, this is not a slight against you, these are the conclusions of reports into the baby bonus etc).


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## Pollux (15/10/08)

Excellent, a nice little $1000 xmas bonus

Looks like I might be getting my kegs for christmas afterall......


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## matti (15/10/08)

3 kid= New brew shed  
In my dreams :lol:


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## brettprevans (15/10/08)

OT completely OT

*rant on*

Aust population growth is suffering and by 2050 most of the population and workforce will be migrants as our birth rate is in decline and not replacing the population. Labour economics.

As for the Laissez Fair economy, more power to it. Im sick of paying tax for people who are happy to sit around for Govt payout. I use my brain and make money. Im not a genius or anything (far from it) but i make the most of what ive got. I read books about investing and stock markets instead of watching TV all the time. I make money from hard work. why the hell shouldnt i make as much money as I can if i want. just because lazy ass people out there dont want to work doesnt mean I shoulne be rewarded for me work. bugger them.

If your dumb enough to chuck money into something you dont understand (ie the stock market) then your gambling and you deserve what you get.

Free unbi was one of the best things ever. $50k for uni paid off over say 8 years is the equivilent to a lump sum of over $100k. tell me that a $100k sint better than a crappy $5000 baby bonus or $14k home owners grant??!!!
*rant off*

I wont get anything from this. my 2 kids are born and doubtful to have any others. besides a kid is going to cost more than $1000, so its no incentive to me. This is also a bit of silly approach. short term gain for long term pain. it would have been beterr of bfixing the systems rather than the symptoms. but hey thats govt. play to the voters


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## Timmsy (15/10/08)

So adopt a couple kids for a month or 2??


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## reviled (15/10/08)

DrSmurto said:


> I am getting diddly squat. <_<



You can claim on my kid if you want  

Man, sucks seeing all you guys whinging about tax and all that jazz! Our tax is more than yours, and we have less benifits and grants etc (unless youre a....... Im not gonna say it :huh: )


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## raven19 (15/10/08)

Certainly not too much on beer talk here... I concur with many that wont benefit from Rudds wheeling & dealings, IMO the surplus needs to be put towards aging infrastructure, etc.

In regards to HECS, my engineering degree cost $10k (as HECS - less if you were able to pay up front - no chance for my family) when I started in 1996, a year later, the universities jacked up the price to 30k or more for engineering, and even more if studying for medicine, law, etc.

Thankfully I got in just in the nick of time, but others a year or more later not so lucky...

:icon_offtopic: I like making and drinking beer!

Cheers!


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## warra48 (15/10/08)

Oh, and for those of you who didn't get it, I was speaking in jest. Maybe I should try to be a little less subtle. Don't waste your sympathy on me. If I want sympathy, I can find it in my homebrew. Mrs warra and I are still doing nicely, thank you.

My son and his wife will do OK with the baby bonus/payment thingy, it's due in about a month, just in time.

And daughter and partner are thinking hard about getting into the housing market for the first time.


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

I managed to start before the Nelson reforms- the "partial deregulation of fees" pah! I'm also band 1, so my debt is reasonably low. However, I really feel for those who are band 3, that's outrageously high.


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## Polar Beer (15/10/08)

raven19 said:


> :icon_offtopic: I like making and drinking beer!
> 
> Cheers!



lol


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## major (15/10/08)

Second the didly squat for me too... Bugger

Could I dress up the dog in skirt and get away with it? Hs nothing to do with the Rudd Handouts, just a general question.


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

Did you have to bring the missus up?


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## kram (15/10/08)

Hopefully I pocket some of this bonus.


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## drsmurto (15/10/08)

Always amusing to watch political discussion fire up here. Its been a few weeks at least. Maybe someone can start a poll?

I've got my popcorn and oversized cup of fizzy drink.  

Intermission is over, keep it coming.


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## wyatt_girth (15/10/08)

My wife and I have a 3 yr old dirt magnet and we fit comfortably in to the category of a recipent of this scheme. It is not becuase we are lazy, or because we are breeding like rabbits or any other reason that I regularly read (letters to the editor etc) about us 'bludgers' that get this money. 
I work in an industry that has been effected by the drought and have worked a couple of jobs over the last two years to stay afloat. 
Due to my wife's skilled squirreling of money our home is near paid off and we are still able to live a comfortable life whilst not sacrificing too much when the purse strings get yanked.
This money will fit nicely into our budget and, like much of our baby bonus three years ago, will most likely see a good portion go into our child's fixed term account so she has something to build on and hopefully see she is not a bludger like us.


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## Bribie G (15/10/08)

The reason they gave the bonus to pensioners, including disability pensioners and carers, is that this money will almost immediately be spent in Supermarkets and service industries such as podiatrists and optometrists, as well as bigger ticket stores like Betta Electrical (new washing machine) or Bob Jane (much needed tyres for the old shopping trolley) and this money will continue to recycle for a while as companies like Golden Circle or Kelloggs (Coopers, Morgans, Ross  ) etc get improved orders being placed on them, hire an extra fork lift driver, buy more stuff from the farmer, so it goes round. However in the long term it will just dissipate. Hopefully China will bail us out in the longer term.

I heard yesterday that even a growth rate of six or seven percent in China would put it into a 'technical' recession. :mellow: I'm sure thats the recession every other country would just love to have.

Here on Bribie Island I will be staying well away from the shops on December 8 to avoid being trampled by hordes of rabid locals with their wheeled walking frames and mobility scooters. It's bad at the best of times, I actually got a nasty leg bruise when a little old lady in an out of control LeMans scooter ran into me in the dairy aisle in Woolies.


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## Stuster (15/10/08)

DrSmurto said:


> I've got my popcorn and oversized cup of fizzy drink.



Popcorn and fizzy drink. Pah! Imagine what you could afford if you were getting some of Kev's hand out.


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

BribieG said:


> The reason they gave the bonus to pensioners, including disability pensioners and carers, is that this money will almost immediately be spent in Supermarkets and service industries such as podiatrists and optometrists, as well as bigger ticket stores like Betta Electrical (new washing machine) or Bob Jane (much needed tyres for the old shopping trolley) and this money will continue to recycle for a while as companies like Golden Circle or Kelloggs (Coopers, Morgans, Ross  ) etc get improved orders being placed on them, hire an extra fork lift driver, buy more stuff from the farmer, so it goes round. However in the long term it will just dissipate. Hopefully China will bail us out in the longer term.



The idea is that this will get the market gears 'oiled' (in Friedman's colourful vernacular) in order to prevent a recession. If it works, then there will be no need for additional payments.



> I heard yesterday that even a growth rate of six or seven percent in China would put it into a 'technical' recession. :mellow: I'm sure thats the recession every other country would just love to have.



I have read some economic papers that claim that China needs a growth rate of at least 6% to stay still, due to the nature of their growth (and the most likely case of overreporting due to the lask of oppositional oversight). That *could* explain it.



> Here on Bribie Island I will be staying well away from the shops on December 8 to avoid being trampled by hordes of rabid locals with their wheeled walking frames and mobility scooters. It's bad at the best of times, I actually got a nasty leg bruise when a little old lady in an out of control LeMans scooter ran into me in the dairy aisle in Woolies.



Sure it was out of control.


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## Dave86 (15/10/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> I managed to start before the Nelson reforms- the "partial deregulation of fees" pah! I'm also band 1, so my debt is reasonably low. However, I really feel for those who are band 3, that's outrageously high.



I'm about to finish a pharmacy degree and I can't believe why so many people find it hard to come at the idea of paying for uni? They are much worse off in the states, with debts for pharmacy and similar degrees running into six figures. Yeah the baby boomers got a lot of opportunities our generation didn't, HTFU, stop bitching and imagine if you were born in the third world. 

We've still got it pretty good here, I don't see why we should expect everything just handed over on a platter, if anything it places a value on your education and considering the number of degrees that are, I'll say it, a joke. Why should your average bloke on the street have to pay for someone to learn about dead languages or pure maths? (not knocking either, just don't know of many practical uses)

Another thought a bit more on topic: I don't know a lot about economics (I'm more into chemicals and their effect on the body  ) but isn't one the contributing factors to the state of the economy the fact that people (perhaps those in my generation) are spending too much of their money on shit they really don't need?

I love spending my cash on homebrew gear as much as the next bloke, but isn't the idea of these bonuses to be spent on the essentials and to be saved for a rainy day? (ducks for cover :unsure: )

Just my 50th of a dollar


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## Bribie G (15/10/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> Sure it was out of control.



Probably my fault, I had failed to see the West Coast Choppers T shirt she was wearing, not to mention the row of skull and crossbones stickers along the side of the machine.


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## Polar Beer (15/10/08)

Dave86 said:


> I'm about to finish a pharmacy degree and I can't believe why so many people find it hard to come at the idea of paying for uni? They are much worse off in the states, with debts for pharmacy and similar degrees running into six figures. Yeah the baby boomers got a lot of opportunities our generation didn't, HTFU, stop bitching and imagine if you were born in the third world.




Why dont I imagine if I was in Europe when the plague was about? Or a Tasmanian Tiger, or one of those bugs that lives 30 days. Oh yeh... 



Dave86 said:


> Another thought a bit more on topic: I don't know a lot about economics (I'm more into chemicals and their effect on the body  ) but isn't one the contributing factors to the state of the economy the fact that people (perhaps those in my generation) are spending too much of their money on shit they really don't need?
> 
> I love spending my cash on homebrew gear as much as the next bloke, but isn't the idea of these bonuses to be spent on the essentials and to be saved for a rainy day? (ducks for cover :unsure: )



That's what caused the Reserve to put rates up, 5 minutes before all this hit the fan. The idea now is to spend spend spend. Hence rates come down.


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## Stuster (15/10/08)

Dave86 said:


> pure maths? (not knocking either, just don't know of many practical uses)
> 
> I love spending my cash on homebrew gear as much as the next bloke, but isn't the idea of these bonuses to be spent on the essentials and to be saved for a rainy day? (ducks for cover :unsure: )



No, they want people to spend it up as fast as possible. Saving it won't boost the economy quickly which is what they're aiming for.

Any pure maths does have plenty of (admittedly not direct) benefits for society. 

Perhaps not to the maths graduate though. mutter, grumble....


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## Dave86 (15/10/08)

P & L Brazil said:


> That's what caused the Reserve to put rates up, 5 minutes before all this hit the fan. The idea now is to spend spend spend. Hence rates come down.



Fair enough, let the brewing splurge begin! :super: (i do readily admit to not having much understanding of economics)




> Perhaps not to the maths graduate though. mutter, grumble....



No offense mate, I know a bloke from school who's in his fifth year of pure maths at UNSW (phd) I tried to get him to explain what it was he's actually doing in simpler terms.... I still didn't get it


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## TidalPete (15/10/08)

As old age pensioners, the missus & I get $2100 in the hand which is a great help for people in our circumstances. :beerbang: Thank you Kevin old son.
From a brewing perspective I know that I will get sweet bugger all. :lol: 



> This money will continue to recycle for a while as companies like Coopers, Morgans, Ross, etc get improved orders being placed on them, hire an extra fork lift driver.



However, I will continue to do the best I can keep CraftBrewer & other retailers away from the dole que. :lol: 

I'm a little sad that a lot of brewers may\will squander their $1000 per child on other things rather than (Family-related) essentials without thinking of the future.

TP :beer:


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## staggalee (15/10/08)

warra48 said:


> Oh, and for those of you who didn't get it, I was speaking in jest. Maybe I should try to be a little less subtle.



Actually, it`s not always a good idea to speak in jest or take the piss on AHB.
For some inexplicable reason it always goes straight over their heads.  

staggalee.


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## SJW (15/10/08)

I sat the Mrs down at the computer last night to find out if we qualify for the famly tax ben. par "A" and BING. $2000, we just come in under the thresh hold for two people working full time. 
But it's only money, non of us are starving and theres a beer or 2 in the fridge so I would not be getting too upset about all this.

Steve


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## Cummins (15/10/08)

Stuster said:


> No, they want people to spend it up as fast as possible. Saving it won't boost the economy quickly which is what they're aiming for.


...and then they'll be on A Current Affair again with their shirts off whinging about not enough money to eat.


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

Who here really gives a crap about what ACA has to say?


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## Katherine (15/10/08)

Info television at's worse...


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

Info?

I'm reading Costello's autobiography (for curiosity, also it has been heavily discounted), and he mentions that in the run up to the 1996 election he and the Labor treasurer had a debate on ACA. How times have changed...


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## staggalee (15/10/08)

long live Jerry Springer.
Cutting edge TV.

staggalee.


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## reg (15/10/08)

$2000 will pay my house off a couple of months/years earlier which will mean I can get a conical from Ross that little bit earlier.
I could always buy shares with it and watch what happens, or throw it in the river and watch it float away, either way same result.

Tip: put $2000 on Weekend Hussler to win Caulfield Cup.
Better advice than current economists who always seem astonished as to the daily results of the stockmarkets.


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## Back Yard Brewer (15/10/08)

I'm most likely the most insane person here. Why? Because my 2,000 will be going straight into the bank and off my home loan. Then again I do like the idea of picking up some cheap shares B) 

BYB


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## TidalPete (15/10/08)

Cummins said:


> ...and then they'll be on A Current Affair again with their shirts off whinging about not enough money to eat.



I hope that you hold the same opinions if you are ever unfortunate enough to have to apply for the pension if life does not go the way you planned?
I have no doubt that you would rather starve yourself & your family than accept it (The pension)?
You are a credit to your country I don't think.





You have no idea how fortunate you are to be an Aussie. Grrrrrr.

TP


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## peas_and_corn (15/10/08)

You can't solve a macroeconomic issue caused by debts not being paid off by paying off your debts! that's crazy!


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## Fents (15/10/08)

reg said:


> Tip: put $2000 on Weekend Hussler to win Caulfield Cup.
> Better advice than current economists who always seem astonished as to the daily results of the stockmarkets.




hahahaha did you actually watch weekend hustlers last race? i'd be wiping my ass with it before putting it on that donkey.

Dolphin Jo on the other hand won its last race nearly from last by heaps and is paying $41 (sportsbet), been around for ages good strong horse, then theres Zagreab and Madelvian...

theres another AHB thread screaming to be let out


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## SJW (15/10/08)

Poll time?


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## staggalee (15/10/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> You can't solve a macroeconomic issue caused by debts not being paid off by paying off your debts! that's crazy!



As crazy as the public believing that increasing 1st. home buyer grants to 14000 will make everything just dandy for people trying to get their first home.

staggalee.


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## staggalee (15/10/08)

Fents said:


> hahahaha did you actually watch weekend hustlers last race? i'd be wiping my ass with it before putting it on that donkey.
> 
> Dolphin Jo on the other hand won its last race nearly from last by heaps and is paying $41 (sportsbet), been around for ages good strong horse, then theres Zagreab and Madelvian...
> 
> theres another AHB thread screaming to be let out


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## pbrosnan (15/10/08)

cdbrown said:


> Bah - not expecting till Feb so will miss out on the xmas hand out and also miss out on the damn baby bonus because it becomes means tested. Why did I come back to Aus and pay all this tax. Should have stayed in the uk earning more, paying less tax, travelling to mainland europe every month for a holiday.


 Because you are a proud and loyal Australian, not a johnny come lately?


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## warra48 (15/10/08)

staggalee said:


> Actually, it`s not always a good idea to speak in jest or take the piss on AHB.
> For some inexplicable reason it always goes straight over their heads.
> 
> staggalee.



Maybe there's just a little too much piss in some of us ??? LOL :huh: Thanks for the hint stagga.

I love my life, and am mighty pleased I can get by nicely without handouts. Oh, and I love my beers too, almost as much as I still love mrs warra.


----------



## Tony (15/10/08)

4 kids


----------



## warra48 (15/10/08)

Tony said:


> 4 kids




Any advance on four?

They're not quads are they?


----------



## Batz (15/10/08)

Kids long gone here,not pensioners yet,so nothing.

If you are given money for children,should this not be used on your children,and no not toys or McDonalds


Batz


----------



## wakkatoo (15/10/08)

2 kids...will be lucky if any goes to homebrew. Paid for xmas tho which is nice.

Thanks ruddy and swanny!


----------



## Batz (15/10/08)

wakkatoo said:


> 2 kids...will be lucky if any goes to homebrew. Paid for xmas tho which is nice.
> 
> Thanks ruddy and swanny!




Spot on
If you can spend it on homebrew you don't really need it.

Batz


----------



## Katherine (15/10/08)

> If you are given money for children,should this not be used on your children,and no not toys or McDonalds



My six year old only just asked me for a lap top for Christmas... So now I can do that for her! Only fair if I can have a fermenting fridge with the left overs. Or maybe I can get that with the childcare rebate Im due in late October! 

Im putting down a brew on Saturday, its 31 degrees today... can't keep up with the ice thing! :angry:


----------



## winkle (15/10/08)

staggalee said:


>



That duct tape looks sh*thouse.


----------



## staggalee (15/10/08)

winkle said:


> That duct tape looks sh*thouse.







sorry, give it the arse and try this one  

staggalee.


----------



## domonsura (15/10/08)

:lol:

All semantics to me and mine. 

We pay the same taxes, pay the same costs, get no handouts, don't qualify for a pensions despite being in the low income bracket (oh, sorry - did some of you think that HBS owners make lots of $$$....:lol, not entitled to HECS or any other assistance with getting a further education, don't fit neatly into the little pigeonhole for residency or citizenship because I don;t feel like working as a chef anymore (and couldn't afford to apply for citizenship anyway @ nearly $2K per family member - including the young fella who was _BORN_ here but is not entitled to citizenship because _WE_ weren't ....ffs <_< )

All in all, not entitled to diddly f%$&n squat. But we're still here.

Moral of the story, pull your socks up, HTFU and work harder. Smile when the government gives you money, because you're one of the lucky ones.


----------



## Fatgodzilla (15/10/08)

Katie said:


> My six year old only just asked me for a lap top for Christmas... So now I can do that for her!



keep the receipt and claim it in next year's tax with the new childrens education rebate !!! Double bonus !



> not entitled to HECS


 that's a tax. You can have my HECS bill if you like !



> Moral of the story, pull your socks up, HTFU and work harder. Smile when the government gives you money, because you're one of the lucky ones.



That's why I'm gunna buy you a beer next weekend, cos, brother, us poor slobs gotta look after each other !


----------



## Bribie G (15/10/08)

domonsura said:


> :lol:
> 
> and couldn't afford to apply for citizenship anyway @ nearly $2K per family member - including the young fella who was _BORN_ here but is not entitled to citizenship because _WE_ weren't ....ffs <_< )



I thought it was around $250. 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1298i.pdf

Still a ripoff, cost me zippo thirty years ago, just had an interview and went to my ceremony with the then Mayor of Maryborough Jock Anderson:

_Dae ye promise tae honour the Queen and be a braw wee Aussie Laddie the no_o? The couple of Europeans at the ceremony couldn't understand a word


----------



## clean brewer (15/10/08)

Well,

Hasnt this topic opened up a can of worms.. :huh: Good to see everyone getting it all off their chests.. :angry: 

As I said, I have 2 kids and will get $2000, we live quite comfortably but work F..kin hard (Restaurant Industry). We dont really have a social life, and outside of work its just us and the kids basically entertaining ourself. We hardly ever have any sort of holiday and while for ourselves we dont really need the money, we will be taking it if its given out. Our kids dont miss out on much and I just see it as something that we were not expecting, so maybe some will go in the bank, credit card or buy ourself a nice little treat.

I strongly disagree in the way they(government) do alot of things and by handing money out on dec 8, it will only help a very small portion of the economy, the economy has gotten this way by people spending way to much and the curse of the Real Estate boom years back(paper money)..

I can just see the young ones buying stereos, plasmas, playstations etc etc and the oldies straight down at their local club going hard on the pokies.. :beerbang:


----------



## gregs (15/10/08)

Brazil, explain how the gov. has looked after baby boomers? your so knowledgeable.


----------



## staggalee (15/10/08)

BribieG said:


> I thought it was around $250.
> 
> http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1298i.pdf
> 
> ...



Kiwi, that PDF site seems to contradict your claim of thousands of dollars to be granted citizenship in Aus. How come?

staggalee. :huh:


----------



## Bribie G (15/10/08)

I'm an oldie and I wouldn't mind upgrading my 42 inch LCD to a 50 inch full HD. A couple of grand would do it nicely at todays prices. Then the LCD would go to the daughter and her still fairly new widescreen CRT could go to her daughter..... this is known as the trickle down effect  

Not only that but the Chinese company that makes Panasonics or Samsungs (I don't think they are Jap built any more) will need to import some copper and stuff from Western Australia and I would keep a monster truck driver in business for at least twenty seconds extra.

If I blow it on the pokies the RSL can afford to put up a percentage of a house in the new RSL retirement village or buy a set of tyres for the courtesy bus so I can get a free lift down to the club and blow some more.

Isn't economics a wonderful subject


----------



## Tony (15/10/08)

We have already done our bit to boost the economy in the last 12 months with new washing mashine, chest freezer, big LCD (got a $4000 tv for $1600, no shit!) THey are giving appliances away at the moment and i got in before the prices go back up with the dollars crach.

As for the money.... $4000 is a nice wad of cash and after talking about it we have decided to fix some things up that always take a back seat to feed and bills like my cars broken electric window that hasnt would down for 3 years and the busted electric garage roller door.

Will also put a fair chunk into the kids savings accounts for their furures and save some incase times get tougher.

I have always been one to go without if i cant pay cash and never use my credit card. I save cash and own it outright. no nasty supprises or wasting money on credit card interest.

And if you shop smart and push salesmen you can get great deals these days. got a $1350 washing machine for $850 cash. Thast a lot of money in my pocket!

Cheers


----------



## staggalee (15/10/08)

BribieG said:


> If I blow it on the pokies the RSL can afford to put up a percentage of a house in the new RSL retirement village or buy a set of tyres for the courtesy bus so I can get a free lift down to the club and blow some more.



You know what pisses me off with the Bribie RSL? We`re full members of another RSL, with card and membership no.`s, yet to use the courtesy bus at Bribie you have to be a member of THEIR club!!
Some f####n` courtesy  

staggalee.


----------



## quantocks (15/10/08)

staggalee said:


> You know what pisses me off with the Bribie RSL? We`re full members of another RSL, with card and membership no.`s, yet to use the courtesy bus at Bribie you have to be a member of THEIR club!!
> Some f####n` courtesy
> 
> staggalee.



I don't know how much it is to join Bribie, but I joined Maryborough about 6 months back as a LIFE MEMBER, it cost me one dollar.

then I got a voucher for 5 bucks at the bar. If it weren't just a crappy tin shed pretending to be a real club I'd be happier though


----------



## Batz (15/10/08)

staggalee said:


> You know what pisses me off with the Bribie RSL? We`re full members of another RSL, with card and membership no.`s, yet to use the courtesy bus at Bribie you have to be a member of THEIR club!!
> Some f####n` courtesy
> 
> staggalee.




No way !
I work away a lot and like RSL's,most places pick up us for nix,after all we are spending money there.

Blatz


----------



## staggalee (15/10/08)

Batz said:


> No way !
> I work away a lot and like RSL's,most places pick up us for nix,after all we are spending money there.
> 
> Blatz



Amen to that.
I had a standup blue at the reception counter with them after having to get a cab there, we never went there again.

staggalee.


----------



## Jazman (15/10/08)

no bonuses for dinks either thanks mr Rudd


----------



## paul (15/10/08)

Ive got two kids so I will get $2000.

As the first homebuyers grant went up so will my property value which will increase my water and council rates.

The $2000 will be paid off my morgage. Theres no way the cook will let me spend it on my hobbies.


----------



## Batz (15/10/08)

Jazman said:


> no bonuses for dinks either thanks mr Rudd



Not for metal workers mate  

batz


----------



## AndrewQLD (15/10/08)

domonsura said:


> don't fit neatly into the little pigeonhole for residency or citizenship because I don;t feel like working as a chef anymore (and couldn't afford to apply for citizenship anyway @ nearly $2K per family member - including the young fella who was _BORN_ here but is not entitled to citizenship because _WE_ weren't ....ffs <_< )



I think you need to check your facts, it's $250 per adult, $120 per child over 16 not born here and if your child was born here before you became an Australian Citizen then you only need to apply for a "proof of citizenship" certificate for them at a cost of $50.00.
So it might be more of a worthwhile investment than you thought.

Andrew


----------



## schooey (15/10/08)

No joy in the schooey household. Ahh well, hope those that get it use it for what they need. It'll make a few kids smile at christmas that probably wouldn't have otherwise.


----------



## sqyre (15/10/08)

Well just to throw more poo in to the pot...
I have 3 kids and i qualify...but i will be using it to get a water tank..  
Unfortunatly, because i live in a rural area and rely solely on tank water i was never been eligible for the water tank rebate.
( well i was for about 2 weeks then the council ran out of cash.. :angry: )

Anyhoo, i think that makes me and Rudd even..
and i am investing in my kiddies future by making sure they arn't all Stinky by giving them water to shower.

Sqyre... 

EDIT: Apparently that water stuff is good for brewing with too...


----------



## Mantis (15/10/08)

We'll get bugger all in our household. Never have got anything. Yeah we earn over the threshold but the missus has MS and I have had prostate surgery and radiation treatment this year. Still nothing , so forgive me for being a nasty cynic, but apart from age pensioners and carers and some of you folk who will spend it on brewing stuff, I am guessing the poker machine joints and bottle shops are rubbing their hands together in anticipation. :angry:


----------



## Tony (15/10/08)

sqyre said:


> EDIT: Apparently that water stuff is good for brewing with too...



And you dont need to use yeast if you use if after you wash the kiddies 

Oowwwwwwww thats my problem


----------



## Mantis (15/10/08)

sqyre said:


> Well just to throw more poo in to the pot...
> I have 3 kids and i qualify...but i will be using it to get a water tank..
> Unfortunatly, because i live in a rural area and rely solely on tank water i was never been eligible for the water tank rebate.
> ( well i was for about 2 weeks then the council ran out of cash.. :angry: )
> ...



Good news on the tank eh. I would be spending it on the same thing as another one would be good. 
:super:


----------



## staggalee (15/10/08)

domonsura said:


> :lol:
> 
> All semantics to me and mine.
> 
> ...



kiwi, without making an issue of this and getting you angry, could you just explain how you were told it would be "nearly $2 K per family member" to be granted Aus. citizenship?
Something needs to be done about these claims, there could be many New Australians such as yourself that haven`t applied for citizenship because of these outlandish rumours.
{Somewhere in this thread is a PDF re. citizenship costs, hope that helps}

staggalee.


----------



## porky (15/10/08)

clean brewer said:


> Well,
> 
> Hasnt this topic opened up a can of worms.. :huh: Good to see everyone getting it all off their chests.. :angry:



Well you started it. 
I don't really think this a good thing at all. Too much personal information.
This is a brew site......lets keep it to making beer and ideas to help each other with that.

Cheers,
Bud


----------



## Tony (15/10/08)

I dont see any difference between this thread and a good conversation between friends getting together for a beer.

This thread was posted in "the pub" and its description it "General Chit-Chat and Brew related questions."

Sounds like chit chat to me.

cheers


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (15/10/08)

Shit this is way better than a "Show us your photo in front of Ross's bar thread".Where is staggalee ?
GB


----------



## KingPython (15/10/08)

University is *almost* useless these days. You can make more as a tradie these days without a $20,000 debt hanging over your head, though if commodities and housing takes a fall then tradies salaries will fall as well. 

Giving the money to pensioners and families I think was useless as I thought the aim was to up discretionary spending and if the old people I know are any indication they'll just squirrel it away anyway. The $14,00/$21,000 is useless as well since now every house has gone up by that much. Seems to me it would of been better to let people sell their negative geared homes once things got tough to sort of deflate the market now you're just inflating it again. Wait isn't this how the US got started- overpriced housing? 

Anyway cheers Rudd for extending Howard's middle class welfare :icon_cheers:


----------



## Tony (15/10/08)

King Python said:


> University is *almost* useless these days. You can make more as a tradie these days without a $20,000 debt hanging over your head, though if commodities and housing takes a fall then tradies salaries will fall as well.



Ahhhh but there is still a massive shortage of tradies........... and tradies will always be needed.

The population is not going to slow and they need somewhere to live. Buisness will still gro in the long term... needing tradies.

China is not looking too bad and myself spending every day in a coal mine............ its not going to slow any time soon.

im not feeling too worried............ most buisness advertise for an electrician these days offering 6 figure wages and get 7 people apply...... 2/3 are not worth looking at.

Im loving it

cheers


----------



## domonsura (15/10/08)

staggalee said:


> kiwi, without making an issue of this and getting you angry, could you just explain how you were told it would be "nearly $2 K per family member" to be granted Aus. citizenship?
> Something needs to be done about these claims, there could be many New Australians such as yourself that haven`t applied for citizenship because of these outlandish rumours.
> {Somewhere in this thread is a PDF re. citizenship costs, hope that helps}
> 
> staggalee.


 Hold the phone a moment before you get stuck into me - I'm just repeating the information provided to me by DIMMS last time I enquired. I made the mistake of not laying the steps to citizenship (at the time I last enquired) out separately ( because I didn't think I needed to), but I will do so now as I recall it.

I got all excited 5-6 years ago the first time I heard that citizenship cost so little. Then I spoke to Dept of Immigration. 

I'm not just talking about the fee for the application for 'citizenship' because that's always been negligible - In order to become a citizen, you first needed to be granted permanent residency - not just the special category visa issued to kiwi's when we get here because that entitles us to pay taxes and swt fk.all else. Applying for residency, according to Dept of Immigration Services _ roughly 5 years ago when I enquired_ (both on my behalf and on behalf of a client where I worked at Centrelink) was going to cost $1780 per adult......which was simply not in the budget for us.
The situation may have changed since then, or both myself and the missus were mis-informed on separate occasions both then, and early last year when we made enquiries again, but we received our information directly from Dept Imm representatives. In fact the reason the missus called them herself is that _she_ thought _I _had got it wrong.

I suppose it's worth noting that the residency/citizenship rules and process were significantly changed last year, & even with a quick glance over what the rules seem to be now I can see that things have changed within the _citizenship _application process itself and the requirements in terms of minimum time period in Australia as well - it was 2 years when I last enquired and is now 4 - _However _- Could the fees involved with residency applications have disappeared into thin air - I suppose stranger things have happened........

I suppose I'll check it out again........but I won't be suprised to find out that it's just the same as it always was. If not - well...good news I guess. But I wasn't trying to stir you all up - just repeating what I was told.


----------



## The King of Spain (15/10/08)

Looks too good to be true. Don't you have to be on welfare already? Sorry - but I can't be bothered reading this stuff anymore, I know the answer.

I've got three kids under 10 and we have never qualified for zip so I've gotta presume same again.

Sorry but this all sux; Baby Bonus, First Home Buyers, etc etc. Thats my bloody money :angry:


----------



## clean brewer (15/10/08)

clean brewer said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Well, wasnt I excited to hear about Kevin Rudds Bonus he is handing out for Xmas, for myself, once I heard about it I had to stop and count all the kids Ive got, shit, only 2 ($1000 per child = $2000)..
> 
> ...






Mantis said:


> We'll get bugger all in our household. Never have got anything. Yeah we earn over the threshold but the missus has MS and I have had prostate surgery and radiation treatment this year. Still nothing , so forgive me for being a nasty cynic, but apart from age pensioners and carers and some of you folk who will spend it on brewing stuff, I am guessing the poker machine joints and bottle shops are rubbing their hands together in anticipation. :angry:



What about the drug dealers, they will be in heaven...




budwiser said:


> Well you started it.
> I don't really think this a good thing at all. Too much personal information.
> This is a brew site......lets keep it to making beer and ideas to help each other with that.
> 
> ...



As I wrote when I started this topic, it was about getting some money from Mr Rudd and helping the Home Brew economy and keeping the Home Brew dream alive. So, it is related to Home Brewing but just as General Chit Chat...  




Tony said:


> I dont see any difference between this thread and a good conversation between friends getting together for a beer.
> 
> This thread was posted in "the pub" and its description it "General Chit-Chat and Brew related questions."
> 
> ...



Sounds like its a great topic to be discussing and unfortunately as we all cant get together for a beer this is the next best place to have a chat about it and im sure we are all having a beer while discussing it here.

Well said Tony..


----------



## pokolbinguy (15/10/08)

I really don't see how giving $1K here and there to people with kids and pensioners is really going to stimulate a large amount of spending in the country.....but I can already hear the sounds of the poker machines running and the sales of cream sherry going through the roof.

How about Mr Rudd and Co. give us students a break and share a little bit of love around our neck of the woods...Just imagine...if they really want a bundle load of cash blown on material goods give it to the younger generation, we are good at blowing it 

On the serious side of things, I pay a large amount of taxes, and just because I am responsible when it comes to spreading my seeds I get nothing from the government...makes you really wonder.

Pok


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy (15/10/08)

Ok I'm probably now going to throw a cat amongst the pidgeons with this comment, but hey, I've never been one to hold my tongue.

The reason that Australia is in a reasonable position with this economic crisis going on everywhere else in the world has got to be put down to the previous governments fiscal policies (which I hope is enough to ride out the storm that is approaching fast). 

Now I'm not a Liberal supporter or Labour supporter which sh*ts my mates when they want to talk politics because I look at each political thing on it's own, not as a political party.

But one thing I will say is most Australians are quick to bag out John Howard and the Liberal party, but if this country gets through this without too much economic hardship it will be down to the platform that the Liberal government handed over to the Labour government. Kevin Rudd must be thanking his lucky stars that he has $10bn to play with at the moment to be able to try to ward off a recession.

And for what it's worth, if we get any cash for having 2 kids I'll be doing my best to invest in more brewing equipment to do my part in keeping the economy going.


----------



## TidalPete (15/10/08)

Tony said:


> Ahhhh but there is still a massive shortage of tradies........... and tradies will always be needed.
> 
> The population is not going to slow and they need somewhere to live. Buisness will still gro in the long term... needing tradies.
> 
> ...



I think you could call it *'Reaping the whirlwind' *Tony?
All those greedy bastards of employers are now regretting not putting on a few apprentices now that the rabbit is out of the hat.
Too many good years of profits - the lack of will to put on apprentices = the absence of tradies that we see now.

TP :beer: 

Just had a quick squiz at the recent posts & am about to give this thread the big miss right now. Getting to involved for me.


----------



## pbrosnan (15/10/08)

King Python said:


> University is *almost* useless these days.


Nowadays of course you average tradesman can:
Perform surgery;
Maintain a corporate computer system;
Map the human genome;
Write binding contracts.

Amongst other things. That's why university is almost useless. Sorry, have to go the electrician's here to explain string theory, he's just back from a trade mission to China (fluent in Mandarin).


----------



## domonsura (15/10/08)

Staggalee et al - This is the still the first step to becoming a Citizen - applying for a permanent residents visa (permanent residency, the first requirement of a citizenship application). Still looks a _touch_ expensive. Seems to have gone _up_ even....

My only point to make is - not to assume that the neglible charge involved with the actual citizenship application is the _only_ fee/charge or cost involved with becoming a citizen. There are shedloads of people here in Australia that would love to become citizens but can\'t afford it, only a fraction of them from NZ. 
As I said before I made the mistake of oversimplifying the whole process and just calling it \'applying for citizenship\', when I meant the whole process from start to finish as it applies to me personally. Regardless of all this, as I\'ve said before - I\'d still rather be here than in NZ, no comparison. Even if I do have to work hard for it  Maybe one day I\'ll be able to afford it eh? 

If you can find anything that says that these fees don\'t apply to me, fire away. You\'d make my day if you proved me wrong :lol:.

( :lol: stagga, damned if you do, damned if you don't - prove me wrong & you make it cheaper & easier for me to become an aussie :lol: GOLD )


From Immigration Dept Website


Professionals and other Skilled Migrants visa charges – New Zealand citizens

On this page

* Skilled - Independent (Migrant) visa (subclass 175)
* Skilled - Sponsored (Migrant) visa (subclass 176)
* Skilled - Regional Sponsored (Provisional) visa (subclass 475)
* Skilled - Recognised Graduate (Temporary) visa (subclass 476)


All fees and charges are listed in Australian dollars (AUD). If you are lodging outside Australia, payment must be in the currency accepted by the Australian High Commission, Embassy or Consulate, where the application is being lodged.

See: Currency Converter

Fees may be subject to adjustment at any time. Visa Application Charges may be subject to adjustment on 1 July each year. This may increase the cost of a visa.

The 1st instalment of the Visa Application Charge must be paid at the time of application.

New Zealand citizens are exempt from paying the 2nd instalment of the Visa Application Charge.

*New Zealand citizens should apply for an offshore General Skilled Migration visa, regardless of whether they are in or outside Australia.
Skilled - Independent (Migrant) visa (subclass 175)
Charge Type Charge Amount
[color="#092#FF0000#092"]1st instalment $2105[/color]*

See: Skilled - Independent (Migrant) visa (subclass 175)
Skilled - Sponsored (Migrant) visa (subclass 176)
Charge Type Charge Amount
1st instalment $2105

See: Skilled - Sponsored (Migrant) visa (subclass 176)
Skilled - Regional Sponsored (Provisional) visa (subclass 475)
Charge Type Charge Amount
1st instalment $2105

See: Skilled - Regional Sponsored (Provisional) visa (subclass 475)
Skilled - Recognised Graduate (Temporary) visa (subclass 476)
Charge Type Charge Amount
1st instalment $195

See: Skilled - Recognised Graduate (Temporary) visa (subclass 476)


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (16/10/08)

pbrosnan said:


> Nowadays of course you average tradesman can:
> Perform surgery;
> Maintain a corporate computer system;
> Map the human genome;
> Write binding contracts.


Or they just take all your money and smile as they drive out of your driveway leaving you a 1.5K bill for the day.Hey I like tradies, but in WA atm we a getting pluked in the rear.Every body is earning big bucks except for the other 99% of us.Good call Pat.
GB


----------



## King Brown (16/10/08)

PostModern said:


> You're missing an apostrophe there.
> 
> Gen-Y breeders are the future, not you childless people.



It's not important whether or not your a Gen-Y breeder, as long as your a Gen-Y brewer you are Australia's future!


----------



## Tony (16/10/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Or they just take all your money and smile as they drive out of your driveway leaving you a 1.5K bill for the day.Hey I like tradies, but in WA atm we a getting pluked in the rear.Every body is earning big bucks except for the other 99% of us.Good call Pat.
> GB



I think another thing to do with the trade shortage is the recession that australia had to have. I remember there were thousands of people that would apply for one job for a sparkie in the mines in the early 90's. work dried up around '94 and a lot of people found new professions. A friend of mine that i did my apprenticeship with is now the local cop in the next town down the highway.

I took jobs like tying string together on looms on dogwatch for $6/hr to get by. I then moved to the bush for work in my trade. Places noone else wanted to go and it was a hard rough several years. Being worked to death with 80+ hour weeks for not a lot of money. less that my dad earnt at the time as a sales rep and he didnt work as hard by a long shot.

But i kept in my trade, built my skills, completed and engineering diploma in Industrial control systems and electronics and what do you know.

Australias industry booms and there are no tradies left to do the work after most left their trades and as said......... no apprentices for years.

So yeah, reaping the wirlwind after many years of working to point of nervous breakdown (only had one) to stay in my trade when many took the easy road out.

There are a lot of overpriced, inexperienced tradies out there that make the est of us look over priced but these days i can almost pick my job and price. and its a position i worked very hard to be in. I drove 360km round trips once every week for 3 years to get my engineering diploma.

It certanly hasnt been handed to us all on a platter.

cheers


----------



## KingPython (16/10/08)

Hence the *almost*  

In 10 to 15 years time there'll be a shortage of professionals because from what I see most people seem to be going into retail or trades. Boom, bust repeat. 



> But one thing I will say is most Australians are quick to bag out John Howard and the Liberal party, but if this country gets through this without too much economic hardship it will be down to the platform that the Liberal government handed over to the Labour government.


Hawke\Keating. Howard just saw the good years. Costello did his bit as well but really apart from GST he was building on Keating's economic policy.


----------



## AndrewQLD (16/10/08)

domonsura said:


> New Zealand citizens are exempt from paying the 2nd instalment of the Visa Application Charge.
> 
> *New Zealand citizens should apply for an offshore General Skilled Migration visa, regardless of whether they are in or outside Australia.
> Skilled - Independent (Migrant) visa (subclass 175)
> ...



Glad you cleared that up Dom, because Applying for Citizenship is _entirely_ different than applying for Permanent residency.

Judging by those fees it would appear the Australian Government are trying to *discourage* Kiwis from staying in our country :lol: 
It's got to suck though, hope you win Lotto one day and can take the next step.

Andrew


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## staggalee (16/10/08)

domonsura said:


> Staggalee et al - This is the still the first step to becoming a Citizen - applying for a permanent residents visa (permanent residency, the first requirement of a citizenship application). Still looks a _touch_ expensive. Seems to have gone _up_ even....
> 
> My only point to make is - not to assume that the neglible charge involved with the actual citizenship application is the _only_ fee/charge or cost involved with becoming a citizen. There are shedloads of people here in Australia that would love to become citizens but can\'t afford it, only a fraction of them from NZ.
> As I said before I made the mistake of oversimplifying the whole process and just calling it \'applying for citizenship\', when I meant the whole process from start to finish as it applies to me personally. Regardless of all this, as I\'ve said before - I\'d still rather be here than in NZ, no comparison. Even if I do have to work hard for it  Maybe one day I\'ll be able to afford it eh?
> ...



Thanks for that........when I get a spare 3 months I`ll go to that website and see what I can find.
In the meantime, your saying "I made the mistake of oversimplifying the whole process etc etc" should do the job 

staggalee.


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## Dave86 (16/10/08)

I think one of the main reasons there is a shortage of tradies is that a lot of people don't want to get their dirty, simple as that. I speak from the side that has gone to uni and can get a job in an air-conditioned pharmacy. (12 months of working on our farm killed any blue-collar aspirations  ) It's the same in farming, no young blokes are getting into farming, with the additional reasons of farms being expensive and if you're going to get your hands dirty may as well do it in the mines and earn 100K

I know of hardly any of my mates that wanted to get a trade, all my mates have done economics, law, pyschology, personal training, radiology, teaching etc. with the exception of a good mate who has 12 months left on a boiler-makers apprenticeship. He's had to do the two jobs thing and done it tough but now he can afford to enjoy himself a little bit and will be laughing in a years time when he'll be making more money than most pharmacists.

I say good on him, he'll be set money wise and be able to work just about anywhere. If I wasn't so lazy I reckon I would have done an apprenticeship too 

Edit:spelling


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## domonsura (16/10/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Glad you cleared that up Dom, because Applying for Citizenship is _entirely_ different than applying for Permanent residency.




Sorry Andrew, I disagree. You cannot apply for citizenship without having been granted residency, they are part of the same process. Speak to DIMMS, and they will confirm for you that the first step of applying for citizenship is gaining residency, and that it is all the same process.

Applying for citizenship is not just filling out the form and paying the $240 fee for the paperwork - just like making beer isn't just putting the caps on the bottles......it's a long and costly process. 



staggalee said:


> Thanks for that........when I get a spare 3 months I`ll go to that website and see what I can find.
> In the meantime, your saying "I made the mistake of oversimplifying the whole process etc etc" should do the job
> 
> staggalee.



stagga - I wasn't trying to say I'd made a mistake at all - rather that you were talking about a very small _part_ of the applying for citizenship process, and you clearly have little understanding of the rest of the process and the costs involved. You make it sound as though we get here and pay $240, make a little speech and hey ho, we're citizens - and that's just not true so the only person starting funny rumours about the costs involved is you - someone I'm guessing has never had to have anything to do with the process. Stick to stuff you know something about mate.


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## chimera (16/10/08)

PostModern said:


> Gen-Y breeders are the future, not you childless people.



I should introduce you to the lovely lass up the road from me.
She's about 30 years old, never worked a day in her short life. No front teeth, intellect of a gumboot, moderate understanding of spoken english (her first language). Fills her day with about 50 fags and a bottle of cheap liquor. In the two years I've known (of) her she's spent the entire time pregnant to her equally useless defacto.

Ah yeah, she will also be picking up $7k xmas bonus cheque

Im not sure that taking money from the working public and giving it to them really helps the economy.


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## reg (16/10/08)

Its always easy to quote the dole bludger arguement.

(start rant)
I will also be getting a $2k cheque as a xmas present from the govt.
I work as a sparky on a site where we work 12 hour rotating shifts.
I work shift work to get the extra money to enable my wife to stay at home and look after our kids.
During my apprenticeship I was taking home less than all of my mates and struglled to run my car and go out etc. Now I earn more than my dad who has been in the same job for nearly 40 years.
Where I did my time two years prior they had 50 apprentices off all trades and I was the last of the electricians to be indentured... This was a federal government department, so its not only industries fault for the lack of trades people but have a look who doesnt put apprentices on at all any more.
(End rant)

Anyway I am thankful for the governemts assistance and appreciative of the extra $2k right on xmas.
Hopefully I can keep some retailers happy and profitable
RDWHAHB


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## AndrewQLD (16/10/08)

> Sorry Andrew, I disagree. You cannot apply for citizenship without having been granted residency, they are part of the same process. Speak to DIMMS, and they will confirm for you that the first step of applying for citizenship is gaining residency, and that it is all the same process.



Here your right  , you do have to be a permanent resident to be granted Citizenship, to get permanent residency you have to pay an exorbitant fee of $2100, no arguments there. No-one was debating that.




domonsura said:


> Applying for citizenship is not just filling out the form and paying the $240 fee for the paperwork - just like making beer isn't just putting the caps on the bottles......it's a long and costly process.



Sorry Dom, your wrong, I know, I've been through the whole process. To get citizenship _*is*_ just a matter of filling out a form and paying $240.00. 
However you failed to mention in your first post that you didn't have permanent residency status, and since WE all know that you have to be a permanent resident BEFORE you can apply for citizenship then some of us assumed that you already were a permanent resident since you were referring to applying for Citizenship only.

You seem to think that Permanent Residency and Citizenship go hand in hand however you can have permanent residency without having to become a Citizen, so they are indeed two separate and entirely different things

Apologies for not reading what wasn't there.

Andrew


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## Mantis (16/10/08)

Chimera said:


> I should introduce you to the lovely lass up the road from me.
> She's about 30 years old, never worked a day in her short life. No front teeth, intellect of a gumboot, moderate understanding of spoken english (her first language). Fills her day with about 50 fags and a bottle of cheap liquor. In the two years I've known (of) her she's spent the entire time pregnant to her equally useless defacto.
> 
> Ah yeah, she will also be picking up $7k xmas bonus cheque
> ...




Yes I know quite a few of her type. Its lovely to know that our tax money is going to such a good cause eh
Her kids wont get any benefit from it at all


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## domonsura (16/10/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> You seem to think that Permanent Residency and Citizenship go hand in hand however you can have permanent residency without having to become a Citizen, so they are indeed two separate and entirely different things
> 
> Apologies for not reading what wasn't there.
> 
> Andrew



You're entitled to your perspective on it Andrew, no dramas there  You're right, you can do half the process and just get residency........but that's not what we're talking about.

For the purposes of gaining citizenship for _me _or someone _new _to the country, the very first thing you have to do is gain residency, And all kiwi's have permanent residency, just not 'the right kind'. We have the "yes you can pay taxes here" kind on the way in the gate, what we need is the "empty your bank account into the Aus gvmt's coffers first, and _then_ pay taxes" kind :lol:

All I was saying is that they might be separate pieces of paper, and separate fees - but it's all the same process regardless of how you segregate it, and that's why DIMMS handle the entire process from start to finish.

anyway......now we're just making crop circles....


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## DiscoStu (16/10/08)

IMHO Economic iresponibility at it's finest. 

The RBA has been raising interest rates to dampen consumer spending and thus curb inflation, the recent 100 basis point cut is effectively an admission by the RBA that they had gone too far with rates and with banks passing on 75-80 basis points plus the previous 25point cut this add a reasonable amount to the average mortgage holders income. Something like $300 per month on a $400k mortgage.

Rather than wait to see the net effect of the rate cuts on consumer spending/inflation Rudd has chosen to splash the cash to the tune of $10Billion which could very well cause an inflation spike that would require the RBA to again tighten monetary policy which would leave homeowners worse of in the long run after they have blown their couple of grand on a shiny new LCD/plasma/conical/brewshed etc.


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## Katherine (16/10/08)

> I should introduce you to the lovely lass up the road from me.
> She's about 30 years old, never worked a day in her short life. No front teeth, intellect of a gumboot, moderate understanding of spoken english (her first language). Fills her day with about 50 fags and a bottle of cheap liquor. In the two years I've known (of) her she's spent the entire time pregnant to her equally useless defacto.
> 
> Ah yeah, she will also be picking up $7k xmas bonus cheque
> ...





> Yes I know quite a few of her type. Its lovely to know that our tax money is going to such a good cause eh
> Her kids wont get any benefit from it at all



It's also going to people that work really hard for a living....(other tax payers) :angry: and a diddly $1000.00 will just make that Christmas week a little easier.

And how do you know HER TYPE to associate with HER TYPE... ????? 

I knew I should of stayed away from this thread BAD start to the day.


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## Mantis (16/10/08)

Katie said:


> It's also going to people that work really hard for a living....(other tax payers) :angry: and a diddly $1000.00 will just make that Christmas week a little easier.
> 
> And how do you know HER TYPE to associate with HER TYPE... ?????
> 
> I knew I should of stayed away from this thread BAD start to the day.




Dont get bent out of shape. I work in 8 schools around here and see so many of That Type, that is on the dole, smokes, drinks and the kids come to school with no lunch and in dirty clothes. Thats the type that the poster I quoted and myself are talking about. I know one little girl who comes late to school every day because she has to look after her younger brother as mum is still passed out in bed. She gets him up , washes him and gets him and her breakfast, then comes to school. 

I was in no way having a go at working parents


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## staggalee (16/10/08)

domonsura said:


> You're entitled to your perspective on it Andrew, no dramas there  You're right, you can do half the process and just get residency........but that's not what we're talking about.
> 
> For the purposes of gaining citizenship for _me _or someone _new _to the country, the very first thing you have to do is gain residency, And all kiwi's have permanent residency, just not 'the right kind'. We have the "yes you can pay taxes here" kind on the way in the gate, what we need is the "empty your bank account into the Aus gvmt's coffers first, and _then_ pay taxes" kind :lol:
> 
> ...



Just pay up and we`ll THINK about letting you stay here. :lol: 

staggalee.


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## Katherine (16/10/08)

> Dont get bent out of shape. I work in 8 schools around here and see so many of That Type, that is on the dole, smokes, drinks and the kids come to school with no lunch and in dirty clothes. Thats the type that the poster I quoted and myself are talking about. I know one little girl who comes late to school every day because she has to look after her younger brother as mum is still passed out in bed. She gets him up , washes him and gets him and her breakfast, then comes to school.
> 
> I was in no way having a go at working parents



Yeah I did get bent up a little... thats the problem with communicating over the net. No facial expressions, tone of voice etc and you only read into it what you read.

I mean don't they say beer and politics just don't mix!

There are so many key board WARRIORS out there.

Anyhow Im barring myself from this thread. I'm going back to my free education and reading posts bout BEER! :lol:


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## tcraig20 (16/10/08)

reg said:


> Its always easy to quote the dole bludger arguement.
> 
> (start rant)
> I will also be getting a $2k cheque as a xmas present from the govt.
> ...



Sounds more like the government is giving you back your money more than anything. 

Imagine the bureaucracy that could be saved if they didnt take it in the first place <_<


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## peas_and_corn (16/10/08)

DiscoStu said:


> IMHO Economic iresponibility at it's finest.
> 
> The RBA has been raising interest rates to dampen consumer spending and thus curb inflation, the recent 100 basis point cut is effectively an admission by the RBA that they had gone too far with rates and with banks passing on 75-80 basis points plus the previous 25point cut this add a reasonable amount to the average mortgage holders income. Something like $300 per month on a $400k mortgage.
> 
> Rather than wait to see the net effect of the rate cuts on consumer spending/inflation Rudd has chosen to splash the cash to the tune of $10Billion which could very well cause an inflation spike that would require the RBA to again tighten monetary policy which would leave homeowners worse of in the long run after they have blown their couple of grand on a shiny new LCD/plasma/conical/brewshed etc.



The reserve bank put the rates up because yes as you mentioned, there was upward pressure on inflation. this was caused by many things, one of which was inflating governmetn spending, which was increasing faster than during the recession times (when spending was increased to get money into the system). The reserve bank said taht the causes for the upward pressure on inflation was demostically created. However, what we have now is international pressures putting downward pressure on inflation. In order to prevent a recession, which can be caused by downward pressure on economic activity, this package was launched. The Labor party learned from its economic stimulus package of 1992 that if you launch such a package once the recession is in full swing, it is already too late. This package was modeled on recommendations made by the IMF.


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## the_fuzz (16/10/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> The reserve bank put the rates up because yes as you mentioned, there was upward pressure on inflation. this was caused by many things, one of which was inflating governmetn spending, which was increasing faster than during the recession times (when spending was increased to get money into the system). The reserve bank said taht the causes for the upward pressure on inflation was demostically created. However, what we have now is international pressures putting downward pressure on inflation. In order to prevent a recession, which can be caused by downward pressure on economic activity, this package was launched. The Labor party learned from its economic stimulus package of 1992 that if you launch such a package once the recession is in full swing, it is already too late. This package was modeled on recommendations made by the IMF.




There's no point champ as you either get

a) Labor haters
B) Government spending any money haters
c) People who are pissed because they get nothing, thus no one should get anything
d) People who read the Financial Review once and now think they are accountants

BTW, if you are single and not getting anything - what can you complain about? Poor you with your single life style.......... Throw a wife and 3 kids into the mix and see how much "play" money you have then.

BTW I get nothing <_< but at the same time have no problem with people getting some money. Also not all old people play the pokies, not all single mums are doll bludging sluts - most people getting this money will be hard working familes who are struggling - hopefully their kids can enjoy Christmas or they can throw some money onto the mortgage and get a little bit ahead.


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## Tony (16/10/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> This package was modeled on recommendations made by the IMF.



International Malt Foundation ?


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## clean brewer (16/10/08)

Tony said:


> International Malt Foundation ?



:beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang: 

Tony, your profile picture says it all..........


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## razz (16/10/08)

clean brewer said:


> :beerbang:
> 
> Tony, your profile picture says it all..........



If I ever met a bloke with a mug like that I would just kiss him and hug him the poor ugly little bugger..... :wub:


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## dr K (16/10/08)

> International Malt Foundation ?



Thats my sort of talk....wow 7 plus pages much of which seems to be a cake mix of bigotory, ill-informed and uninformed comments and general scuttlebutt.
Who cares, well apparently a lot of people who read and post to on-line forums do (I do not think that AHB is unique in this).
Rudd (and Turnbull) recognise, as do all of the central banks world-wide, that an adrenaline rush of cash is needed to stop the fall, now they are generating the cash, it already there but they are releasing it in an effort to at least prop the ailing signposts up. the money is targeted to those most likely to pump it straight back into the econonomy, and if goes on ciggarrettes well the gov gets a bit of discount eh !!
Mr Galbraith noted that the only reason for the existence of economic forecasting was to make astrology look rational. (or words to that effect).

K


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## pbrosnan (16/10/08)

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Now I'm not a Liberal supporter or Labour supporter which sh*ts my mates when they want to talk politics because I look at each political thing on it's own, not as a political party.


Ah a good old self serving opportunist, or in the modern vernacular "economic rationalist"



FarsideOfCrazy said:


> But one thing I will say is most Australians are quick to bag out John Howard and the Liberal party, but if this country gets through this without too much economic hardship it will be down to the platform that the Liberal government handed over to the Labour government. Kevin Rudd must be thanking his lucky stars that he has $10bn to play with at the moment to be able to try to ward off a recession.


This statement kind of undermines your claim to political impartiality ... but then most conservatives don't know they are one.


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## andrewg1978 (17/10/08)

P & L Brazil said:


> yeh Warra. The baby boomers have really had it tough over the course. <_<
> 
> Try lugging around a 5 figure Uni debt, a mortgage for an outer suburban house that would buy half of inner Melbourne 15 years ago, child care & and the inevitable taxes and lifestyle changes required due to global warming (bought but not paid for by previous generations).
> 
> I'm appreciate your predicament, but I am struggling to be sympathetic



here here!

I'm happy to hear that there are others out there!


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## MartinS (17/10/08)




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## staggalee (17/10/08)

I wish people wouldn`t post pics and disrupt the forum like that  

staggalee.


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## chimera (17/10/08)

Katie said:


> It's also going to people that work really hard for a living....(other tax payers) :angry: and a diddly $1000.00 will just make that Christmas week a little easier.
> 
> And how do you know HER TYPE to associate with HER TYPE... ?????
> 
> I knew I should of stayed away from this thread BAD start to the day.



she's ait. I too know plenty of people who are getting the payout who are much more deserving.
That said I bet harvey norman just doubled their shipment of flatscreen tvs.


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## Katherine (17/10/08)

Even if parents go out and buy a flat tv they have always wanted... It's probably due to the fact they put there children first. I really need a fridge to put my fermenters in but it has to wait due to the fact I pay child care, dancing lessons, swimming lessons, school fees, clothes, food etc which I provide for my daughter way before I satisfy myself with brew gear or televisions.


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## yardy (17/10/08)

nothing off kev for this household.


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## TasChris (17/10/08)

Have been having a laugh at some of the talk back calls on the radio.

Elderly Caller..... " All these young people are just going to go out and get pregnant then blow the money on plasma TVs , wasting my taxes"

Young Caller....." All these old people are going to head straight down to the local RSL and blow the money on the pokies, wasting my taxes"

Only one solution Sterilise the young and section the old

Chris


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## MVZOOM (17/10/08)

Nothing for the Zoom household. Apparently we're loaded with a low six fig salary, 3 kids and a Sydney mortgage.


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## clean brewer (17/10/08)

Katie said:


> Even if parents go out and buy a flat tv they have always wanted... It's probably due to the fact they put there children first. I really need a fridge to put my fermenters in but it has to wait due to the fact I pay child care, dancing lessons, swimming lessons, school fees, clothes, food etc which I provide for my daughter way before I satisfy myself with brew gear or televisions.



Aint that the truth Katie, we have 2 kids, one is 7 and the other is nearly 2 and most of our money goes on making sure they have what they need and the bills etc.. Shit ive gotta save $25 a week just to get my keg set-up, I think my foray into AG be in the New Year...


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## quantocks (17/10/08)

staggalee said:


> kiwi, without making an issue of this and getting you angry, could you just explain how you were told it would be "nearly $2 K per family member" to be granted Aus. citizenship?
> Something needs to be done about these claims, there could be many New Australians such as yourself that haven`t applied for citizenship because of these outlandish rumours.
> {Somewhere in this thread is a PDF re. citizenship costs, hope that helps}
> 
> staggalee.




*Application fee *
The application fee for conferral of Australian Citizenship - General eligibility is $AUD240. Child under 16 years applying on the same form as parent is NIL fee.
*See: * Form 1298i _Citizenship Fees _(58KB PDF file)


however, I work with a Lebanese girl who got her 'husband' to just move here from Lebanon and they had to pay 10,000 dollars for something? assurance perhaps? I'll ask when I return to work.


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## schooey (17/10/08)

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> But one thing I will say is most Australians are quick to bag out John Howard and the Liberal party, but if this country gets through this without too much economic hardship it will be down to the platform that the Liberal government handed over to the Labour government. Kevin Rudd must be thanking his lucky stars that he has $10bn to play with at the moment to be able to try to ward off a recession.



I don't think little Johnny had much to do with the global economic boom that we had over most of his 13 years, the same as I doubt Kevvy's $10b will ward off a recession if the global economy doesn't eventually stabilise.

You don't often see the investors on Wall St panic too much if the ASX loses 9% over night...


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## choppadoo (17/10/08)

The King of Spain said:


> Looks too good to be true. Don't you have to be on welfare already? Sorry - but I can't be bothered reading this stuff anymore, I know the answer.
> 
> I've got three kids under 10 and we have never qualified for zip so I've gotta presume same again.
> 
> Sorry but this all sux; Baby Bonus, First Home Buyers, etc etc. Thats my bloody money :angry:



Better keep your kids out of my schools and hospitals, cos thats my bloody money. Piss off to Dubai, you can keep all your bloody money there.



MVZOOM said:


> Nothing for the Zoom household. Apparently we're loaded with a low six fig salary, 3 kids and a Sydney mortgage.



Thats one more figure than most. Did someone force your hand at the auction, or in the bedroom?

So many people are quick to be critical of people on pensions, the 'bludgers'. But what we are seeing here is that a lot of those being critical have there hands out too, and are just jaded that their wants are not being serviced as readily. Since when did this become a nation of whingers, expectantly waiting for handouts. We all know the deal, you pay taxes, it gets divied up, and if your lucky, some of it gets back to you through infrastructure, services and the occasional bonus. If you have a real complaint about the system, where were your voices beforehand?

You know the baby bonus is for actual children right, not just people who cry?


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## staggalee (17/10/08)

.
geeez 
that`s tellin em

staggalee.


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## quantocks (17/10/08)

choppadoo said:


> Better keep your kids out of my schools and hospitals, cos thats my bloody money. Piss off to Dubai, you can keep all your bloody money there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was unaware that one person paying tax was better than another person paying tax just because they might earn different incomes? next you'll be saying he can't send his kids to read books in a public library because he earns above minimum wage. 

I got on a bus yesterday, seen a lovely old pensioner get on, say 'hello driver' and 'thankyou', she shuffled onto the bus. Then came a drunken ~30 year old, looking rather disheveled and delirious (probably on drugs), get on the bus and say "HEY, PENSIONER TICKET" and produce a pension card. Now I have no qualms at all about real people using pensioners discounts, but this guy was clearly just a drug addict. He'll probably get this huge bonanza of free cash and where is it going ? straight up his arm in a flurry of smack. Pretty much like most of the single mothers pushing out kids just for the baby bonus, that also cry when they have to go for intensive job search training instead of sitting at home playing PlayStation and smoking bongs. I fail to see how someone earning more money but obviously paying more tax than you doesn't deserve to have his kids in a public school, library, swimming pool or anywhere else that is labelled PUBLIC.


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## domonsura (17/10/08)

choppadoo said:


> You know the baby bonus is for actual children right, not just people who cry?



:lol: :lol: HEAR! HEAR!

Do we have a HTFU?


bloody well said Brad


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## choppadoo (17/10/08)

quantocks said:


> I was unaware that one person paying tax was better than another person paying tax just because they might earn different incomes? next you'll be saying he can't send his kids to read books in a public library because he earns above minimum wage.
> 
> I got on a bus yesterday, seen a lovely old pensioner get on, say 'hello driver' and 'thankyou', she shuffled onto the bus. Then came a drunken ~30 year old, looking rather disheveled and delirious (probably on drugs), get on the bus and say "HEY, PENSIONER TICKET" and produce a pension card. Now I have no qualms at all about real people using pensioners discounts, but this guy was clearly just a drug addict. He'll probably get this huge bonanza of free cash and where is it going ? straight up his arm in a flurry of smack. Pretty much like most of the single mothers pushing out kids just for the baby bonus, that also cry when they have to go for intensive job search training instead of sitting at home playing PlayStation and smoking bongs. I fail to see how someone earning more money but obviously paying more tax than you doesn't deserve to have his kids in a public school, library, swimming pool or anywhere else that is labelled PUBLIC.



sorry quantocks, obviously didn't make myself clear enough. was just trying to make the point that we all pay tax for things that we dont gain immediate benefits from, as in his three kids education will be in part subsidised by my taxes, which i have no problem with. if you read again, then you will note that i did not make comment on the level of tax paid in relation to income.

theres a lot of assumptions in there;
was the guy on the bus "drunken", "probably on drugs" or "clearly a drug addict", quantocks? 
what percentage of australias single mothers do you know? and what proportion of them are "pushing out kids just for the baby bonus"? my guess is <0.01% and 0%. but thats just a guess.
how much tax do i pay? actually this would be really helpful, cos i havent got my tax return in yet and i'd really like to know.

cheers


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## Fents (17/10/08)

Katie said:


> Even if parents go out and buy a flat tv they have always wanted... It's probably due to the fact they put there children first. I really need a fridge to put my fermenters in but it has to wait due to the fact I pay child care, dancing lessons, swimming lessons, school fees, clothes, food etc which I provide for my daughter way before I satisfy myself with brew gear or televisions.



I really do think (or would like to) that 98% of parents would do exactly the same thing for their kids, unfortuantly again its the 2% that ruin it for the rest of youse.


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## quantocks (17/10/08)

choppadoo said:


> theres a lot of assumptions in there;
> was the guy on the bus "drunken", "probably on drugs" or "clearly a drug addict", quantocks?
> what percentage of australias single mothers do you know? and what proportion of them are "pushing out kids just for the baby bonus"? my guess is <0.01% and 0%. but thats just a guess.
> how much tax do i pay? actually this would be really helpful, cos i havent got my tax return in yet and i'd really like to know.



guy on the bus was drunk, seemingly on drugs (huge dialated pupils), scabs allover him (obvious sign of being a smack addict).

I worked in Minto for 6 months, the amount of single mothers you see there is out of this world. 

In my household we get absolutely NOTHING, I'm not bitter about that, but I don't see it fair to give money to pensioners when they clearly aren't. You should get back what you give, if these people give nothing to society, they should rot.


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## staggalee (17/10/08)

just don`t go stirring a certain person up or you`ll be threatened with legal action, reported to police , and all the bullshit that goes with it :lol: 

staggalee.


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## yardy (17/10/08)

quantocks said:


> if these people give nothing to society, they should rot.



i'm with you mate.


----------



## rclemmett (17/10/08)

quantocks said:


> but I don't see it fair to give money to pensioners when they clearly aren't. You should get back what you give, if these people give nothing to society, they should rot.




What about what they gave? :blink: 
Didn't the last generation pay taxes?


----------



## quantocks (17/10/08)

Rob2 said:


> What about what they gave? :blink:
> Didn't the last generation pay taxes?




if you read anything I wrote you'd see that I am all for old-age pensioners receiving everything they need, I don't care if they gave the lot to the old age pensioners. They worked hard, fought hard and deserve every cent of it. I am up in arms about the 20-40 year old 'pensioners' that are either on the pension because they've scammed it and are drug addicts or have just spat out a few kids with different fathers.

they do NOT deserve a pension or my tax dollars, they just deserve a slap up the side of the head.


----------



## rclemmett (17/10/08)

quantocks said:


> if you read anything I wrote you'd see that I am all for old-age pensioners receiving everything they need, I don't care if they gave the lot to the old age pensioners. They worked hard, fought hard and deserve every cent of it. I am up in arms about the 20-40 year old 'pensioners' that are either on the pension because they've scammed it and are drug addicts or have just spat out a few kids with different fathers.
> 
> they do NOT deserve a pension or my tax dollars, they just deserve a slap up the side of the head.



If I argued with that I'd be a pinko. h34r:


----------



## Tony (17/10/08)

razz said:


> If I ever met a bloke with a mug like that I would just kiss him and hug him the poor ugly little bugger..... :wub:



Im not that way inclined razz........ unless you have boobies, and not man boobies like mine 

Im flattered though



Katie said:


> Even if parents go out and buy a flat tv they have always wanted... It's probably due to the fact they put there children first. I really need a fridge to put my fermenters in but it has to wait due to the fact I pay child care, dancing lessons, swimming lessons, school fees, clothes, food etc which I provide for my daughter way before I satisfy myself with brew gear or televisions.



Katie i thought you were staying out of this!

a big +1 on your post!




quantocks said:


> You should get back what you give, if these people give nothing to society, they should rot.



There are loopholes in that comment but af far as the unemployed that have never had or really looked for a job.... another +1

cheers


----------



## KingPython (17/10/08)

When are working singles going to get anything? We'll stimulate the economy since we live a life of material excess to fill the emptiness of our lives


----------



## staggalee (17/10/08)

staggalee.


----------



## staggalee (17/10/08)

A new tv, everyone wants a new tv.
what`s the big deal about a new tv?

staggalee.


----------



## MartinS (17/10/08)

staggalee said:


> A new tv, everyone wants a new tv.
> what`s the big deal about a new tv?
> 
> staggalee.



Only slackers and drug addicts buy TVs. 

And single mums just steal them.


----------



## Katherine (17/10/08)

> Only slackers and drug addicts buy TVs.
> 
> And single mums just steal them.



Yeah those SINGLE MOTHERS you have to watch them, there THEIVES, they steal our tax money! Nothing to do with those LOVELY men that walk out on them.


----------



## kram (17/10/08)

I wouldn't bother biting Katie


----------



## Katherine (17/10/08)

> I wouldn't bother biting Katie



I know Kram.... thanks... Im just sick of this thread... my fault for reading it.


----------



## kram (17/10/08)

Just sit back and enjoy the laugh, judging by the thread views there's a few doing the same.


----------



## Katherine (17/10/08)

I think I might go home and have myself a apa hopburst! :icon_chickcheers: 

P.S.... If Im lucky Harvey Norman will be open! Gosh I can just imagine myself running out with a flat screen!


----------



## Pollux (17/10/08)

It's like Springer, minus anyone throwing a chair..........



In reality, I will probably use the $1k we get to clear some c/card debt or perhaps put it into my biofuel landcruiser fund.......


----------



## Murcluf (17/10/08)

Listening to most of the blokes at work they are going to invest in the latest Play Stations etc for Christmas pressies etc 

Just might end up paying for the wii we have on lay by for the kids, then I might invest the left over in kegging


----------



## staggalee (17/10/08)

staggalee,


----------



## reg (17/10/08)

Katie said:


> I think I might go home and have myself a apa hopburst! :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> P.S.... If Im lucky Harvey Norman will be open! Gosh I can just imagine myself running out with a flat screen!



Katie just remember to stop at the register and pay on your out......... :icon_cheers: 

I am working tonight so have a nice apa hopburst for me will ya.  

P.S Go out have a brew before hitting the reply button.....


----------



## Tony (17/10/08)

King Python said:


> When are working singles going to get anything? We'll stimulate the economy since we live a life of material excess to fill the emptiness of our lives



I think you answered you own question there mate

"since we live a life of material excess"

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Have you ever heard of Al Bundy!

cheers


----------



## Tony (17/10/08)

staggalee said:


>



looks like they are watching me when i just got out the shower and drying my feet :lol:


----------



## Tony (17/10/08)

Katie said:


> Gosh I can just imagine myself running out with a flat screen!



Are you single ?

 

Just testing to see if your STILL reading this.


----------



## staggalee (17/10/08)

Tony said:


> Are you single ?
> 
> 
> 
> Just testing to see if your STILL reading this.


get out of it you dirty old man h34r: 

staggalee.


----------



## Barry (17/10/08)

A great cartoon. Explains why I brew. (if you forget about the Tony image) :icon_cheers:


----------



## dr K (17/10/08)

> A great cartoon.



Yep 30 years old or more, what sort of gen does that make the cartoon.
It only seems like this morning I first saw it...

K


----------



## staggalee (17/10/08)

yeah-Michael Leunig.
He`s as dry as.
staggalee.


----------



## Mantis (17/10/08)

Go for it Katie. Believe it or not I have always been on your side. 
Grab the telly and run
If Tony gets in the road, trample him and make your getaway

Seriously, I hope you and your daughter have a great xmas


----------



## Jazman (17/10/08)

well some of us are lucky but then again do u think i mind working lots of overtime and working hard to set myself up for life (I am A tradie) to pay my fair share of tax to pay for other peoples kids to bonus to waste on ps3 ect and first home owners into the market who cant afford a deposit were i build ans sold the hard way yo get were i am with no help ...flame suit on but this really pissus me off................Proud Dink


----------



## Tony (17/10/08)

Why would i stand in her way? I agree with most she has said on here so far, not the "im out of here" bit. that was bullshit.  She will be back again. I recon she loves a good blue

I just bought a new 46 inch HD LCD and im not a single mum. My wife was a single mum for years before i met her. She worked for a few hundred bucks a week and ended up with a horrid cronic RSI in her arms. She also suported another family that was leitching off her when we met. I toon took care of that situation. 

No drugs, actually she only ate 3 or 4 times a week so her kids had food...... they came first. Always will......still do. all of them.

We have gone without most earthly pleasures for years wile paying off home loans, car loans ect and trying to raise 4 kids the best we can. They are bloody expensive for little things. Its never ending. 

Because i earn a good wage we had to pay full rates at daycare for them. $120 a day for the twins. If i was unemployed and colecting the doll...... it would be $12 a day. How does that work?

We have no power over it though. We can vote but both sides of the fence bend us over and ram us. 

Society is based on the basis of keeping the population on the brink of poverty. If we all get a bit rich they take more then when it goes bad.... they give it back. 

Problem is givving it back will drive the dredded "inflasion" and that will **** the intrest rate drops. 

I would rather another 2% drop in rates over the next few years that a few grand gift they will go strait back to the government in tax when spent.

money pumped into your home loan is the best long term investment you can make. makes (saves) you more than it will make in interest of dividends on any investment.


----------



## TidalPete (17/10/08)

Tony said:


> money pumped into your home loan is the best long term investment you can make. makes (saves) you more than it will make in interest of dividends on any investment.



You're not wrong there Tony.
When I got married 40 years ago I had the choice of paying off the house & land (A grand total of $11,400 odd IIRC --- a little above average at the time) over 15 or 30 years. I chose to do the hard yards & go the 15 year route.
The same thing applies today as you have just pointed out.

TP :beer:


----------



## MartinS (18/10/08)

MartinS said:


> Only slackers and drug addicts buy TVs.
> 
> And single mums just steal them.



Sorry, all. This was meant as a joke, and was meant to be subtly slagging out a completely different group of people to those I appear to have offended.


----------



## staggalee (18/10/08)

lol-it`s a beer forum, things sometimes get said that shouldn`t.
Other times, things don`t get said that should.
Spose it all evens out.
Regardless, the dogs bark and the caravan moves on.

staggalee.


----------



## MVZOOM (18/10/08)

choppadoo said:


> Thats one more figure than most. Did someone force your hand at the auction, or in the bedroom?



The more times I read this, the less I think I understand what you are asking. Would you mind spelling it out for me?




choppadoo said:


> You know the baby bonus is for actual children right, not just people who cry?




Again, slightly confused - although this seems to assert that I am a whinger - is this what you're trying to say? 

My observation relating to my personal circumstances and those of a few others that have replied in this thread is this; I happen to be at a point whereby my income meets the commitments that I have to the taxman, the bank and the fiscal requirements my family have. It's a close game though, and we're not moving forward. We don't lead an extravagant life by any means, nor rack up debt. My tax bill each year is substantial ($60k+) - it'd be nice to have a few $$ to throw into an account for the kids to kick off their savings - I reckon given the amount I pay in tax, it's fair. However the government thresholds don't allow for this and I assume that's because I am 'loaded'. 

I think there are a fair few in my position and felt compelled to comment. 

Cheers - Mike


----------



## ham2k (18/10/08)

quantocks said:


> Pretty much like most of the single mothers pushing out kids just for the baby bonus, that also cry when they have to go for intensive job search training instead of sitting at home playing PlayStation and smoking bongs.



Mate, you've been watching too much Frontline.


----------



## staggalee (18/10/08)

MVZoom, What he`s saying in both quotes is simple enough really, I got it first read.
{and I`m not buying into it}  

staggalee.


----------



## KingPython (18/10/08)

MVZOOM said:


> Again, slightly confused - although this seems to assert that I am a whinger - is this what you're trying to say?


Personal choice. I think he's alluding to you make your own bed and sleep in it and don't expect the government or anybody else to help\bail you out.


----------



## MVZOOM (18/10/08)

staggalee said:


> MVZoom, What he`s saying in both quotes is simple enough really, I got it first read.
> {and I`m not buying into it}
> 
> staggalee.





> QUOTE (MVZOOM @ Oct 18 2008, 10:25 AM) *
> Again, slightly confused - although this seems to assert that I am a whinger - is this what you're trying to say?
> 
> Personal choice. I think he's alluding to you make your own bed and sleep in it and don't expect the government or anybody else to help\bail you out.



Hang ten - yep, we chose to have three kids and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not expecting anyone to 'bail me out' (bail me out of what?). WTF have auctions got to do with it? 

C'mon, lets call a spade a spade here. I'm being made out to be a whinging, hard up, 'un-Australian' by asserting that people in the same income bracket and circumstances are considered by the government to be un-deserving of a benefit? 

If you're going to say it, just say it. At the end of the day, Choppadoo is drawing a fairly long bow and making statements are baseless, merely by the fact that he has absolutely no idea about me or my circumstances. 

For that reason, I find it pretty offensive. 

Cheers - Mike

:icon_cheers:


----------



## spog (18/10/08)

Jazman said:


> well some of us are lucky but then again do u think i mind working lots of overtime and working hard to set myself up for life (I am A tradie) to pay my fair share of tax to pay for other peoples kids to bonus to waste on ps3 ect and first home owners into the market who cant afford a deposit were i build ans sold the hard way yo get were i am with no help ...flame suit on but this really pissus me off................Proud Dink


as a fellow tradie (chippie) and taxpayer. i know what you mean,
i tried to add katies post as well, ( but i am just a dumb chippie ),
katie,i know of "girls" in the same situation as you, and the raw deal you get get,but you are a brewer so thats top shelf in my book.
call your next brew "the useless male bastard ale" and post the recipe. ....cheers..spog.....


----------



## staggalee (18/10/08)

Well, FFS send him a pm and tell him, not us.
He`s the one that unloaded on you. 
I`m quite neutral on the whole deal.

staggalee.


----------



## microbe (18/10/08)

Going back to your original post - 



MVZOOM said:


> Nothing for the Zoom household. Apparently we're loaded with a low six fig salary, 3 kids and a Sydney mortgage.



seems a little whiny IMHO. You don't seem at all "_whinging, hard up, 'un-Australian'_" but I think the point was well made that you've made your choices and the Gov't has made theirs - deal with it.



Cheers,

microbe


----------



## MVZOOM (18/10/08)

Meh, cool, whatever. That's the great thing about the internets, everyone gets to submit their view.


----------



## peas_and_corn (18/10/08)

Look, it'll come up eventually, so I might as well get it out of the way.

"Dude, the's EXACTLY what Hitler did. That means you're Hitler"


----------



## microbe (18/10/08)

MVZOOM said:


> Meh, cool, whatever. That's the great thing about the internets, everyone gets to submit their view.


Exactly, and most of them (including many of mine own) aren't worth the paper they're not written on.

Cheers,

microbe


----------



## MVZOOM (18/10/08)

microbe said:


> Exactly, and most of them (including many of mine own) aren't worth the paper they're not written on.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> microbe



I am Relaxing and Having Another Home Brew. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## staggalee (18/10/08)

MVZOOM said:


> I am Relaxing and Having Another Home Brew. :icon_chickcheers:



Atta boy-as the ultimate survivor of Grumpy`s Forum Colloseum,I can assure you posts on a beer forum are nothing to lose sleep over.
Including mine :lol: 
staggalee.


----------



## microbe (18/10/08)

MVZOOM said:


> I am Relaxing and Having Another Home Brew. :icon_chickcheers:


... and I will join you. :chug: 

Cheers,

microbe


----------



## hoohaaman (18/10/08)

The liberals have being hording our money for years
The Labour govt.spends it.


----------



## darrell.wallace (19/10/08)

Like many on this thread i got my nose a little bent out of shape by some of the posts. I paid for my Uni degree, so did my wife. We are both teachers so i feel that we contribute something to society. We have 2 kids, and even on full time wages we will fall under the threshold for the $1000 bonus per child. It will make christmas and the new year that little bit easier i guess.

No we wont be going and spending it on televisions (or brewing equipment) we will be making sure that we use the money to ensure the future of our 2 children. IMO i am getting a little bit back from the government for the years of taxes that both my wife and i have paid (and our parents for that matter as well). The assertions that we would blow all money on smokes, drugs, pokies and televisions is not very well thought through.

Maybe people just need to stop being bitter that they missed out on a bonus, need to think for three seconds before they post comments that were not thought through and try to see things from another perspectives.

I am fortunate this time, i get the bonus when many dont. 

Brew some more beer, be thankfull that you have a computer to share your opionion's and the freedoms to do so and enjoy life.


----------



## choppadoo (19/10/08)

MVZOOM said:


> Hang ten - yep, we chose to have three kids and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not expecting anyone to 'bail me out' (bail me out of what?). WTF have auctions got to do with it?
> 
> C'mon, lets call a spade a spade here. I'm being made out to be a whinging, hard up, 'un-Australian' by asserting that people in the same income bracket and circumstances are considered by the government to be un-deserving of a benefit?
> 
> ...


Hi Mike,
Sorry I offended you.
The only reason i picked up on your post initially was that i thought it sounded a little expectant. Your right, i don't know anything about you or your circumstances (other than what you've posted).
There are undoubtedly countless people recieving these bonuses (and benefits year round) that simply do not deserve them. However, I would much rather have some undeserving people recieving them than having any people that actually need them miss out. Seperating those that have come to need support by their own choices from those that have come to need support by circumstances beyond their control is near on impossible.
As to whether you deserve or need it, I don't know. You may deserve it, but being that you yourself have stated that you are currently meeting your fiscal demands, then i would suggest that you do not (currently) need it. 
I hope everything works out well for you and your family Mike.

For all that will recieve bonuses and are considering spending it on homebrewing, you definitely do not need it. Please put it in a savings account for your kids (top idea Mike), pay off a bit more of your mortgage, buy some groceries, or give it to a good charity so it can get to those who do need it.

Thats just my opinion though  

Cheers,
Brad


----------



## BrissyBrew (21/10/08)

domonsura said:


> You're entitled to your perspective on it Andrew, no dramas there  You're right, you can do half the process and just get residency........but that's not what we're talking about.
> 
> For the purposes of gaining citizenship for _me _or someone _new _to the country, the very first thing you have to do is gain residency, And all kiwi's have permanent residency, just not 'the right kind'. We have the "yes you can pay taxes here" kind on the way in the gate, what we need is the "empty your bank account into the Aus gvmt's coffers first, and _then_ pay taxes" kind :lol:
> 
> ...


it all depends on when NZ citizens first arrived in Australia. Straight from the citizenship website

*<H1>As a New Zealander, am I eligible for Australian citizenship?</H1>If you arrived on or before 26 February 2001*
If you arrived on or before this date, it is quite possible that you are a permanent resident for citizenship purposes. You would be eligible to apply for Australian citizenship if you meet all the other requirements, including the residence and character requirements. 
*See:* [URL="http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/application-process/index.htm"]Applying for Citizenship


*http://If you arrived after 26 February 2001*
If you arrived after this date, you may be a permanent resident for citizenship purposes if:


you have a permanent resident visa
*or*
you were outside Australia on 26 February 2001 but had spent a period of 12 months in Australia on a Special Category Visa in the two years before this date. The 12 months do not need to be continuous
*or*
you have a Centrelink certificate, issued under the Social Security Act 1991, that states that you were, for the purposes of the Act, residing in Australia on a particular date. These certificates are no longer issued.
You would be eligible to apply for Australian citizenship if you meet *all* the other requirements, including the residence and character requirements.
*See:* Applying for Citizenship



*http://
................................................................... visa background for people from NZ. also have some info for children born in Australia with parents from NZ................................

Under various arrangements since the 1920s, there has been a free flow of people between Australia and New Zealand.

The 1973 Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement has allowed Australian and New Zealand citizens to enter each other's country to visit, live and work, without the need to apply for authority to enter the other country.

The movement of New Zealanders to and from Australia relates primarily to the economic conditions prevailing in both countries. In particular, the number of New Zealanders in Australia increases in times of economic buoyancy in Australia relative to New Zealand and decreases when economic conditions are slow.

At 30 June 2005, an estimated 449 000 New Zealand citizens were present in Australia.

<H2>Visa requirements*
On 1 September 1994, amendments made by the _Migration Act 1958_, resulted in a number of changes to migration legislation.

One of the changes introduced was the legal requirement for all non-citizens lawfully in Australia to hold visas.

As a result, the Special Category Visa (SCV) was introduced for New Zealand citizens. In practical terms, there was no change to procedures for New Zealand citizens wanting to come to Australia. They continue to need only a valid New Zealand passport to travel to Australia and in most cases, do not need to seek a visa before travelling1.

At the time of presenting their passports for immigration clearance they are considered to have applied for a visa and, subject to health or character considerations, will automatically receive an SCV which is recorded electronically. 

Their New Zealand passports are stamped, showing the date of arrival in Australia. This is the only evidence provided or necessary to show they are holders of an SCV.

People who become New Zealand citizens after their arrival in Australia can, subject to health and character considerations, obtain an SCV from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship, as can New Zealand citizens who were already in Australia before 1 September 1994.

Certain New Zealand citizens who were already in Australia before 1 September 1994, and were still in Australia on that date, automatically became SCV holders on 1 September 1994.

*Is it necessary to apply for a permanent residence visa?*
It is not necessary for a New Zealand citizen who holds an SCV to apply for or be granted permanent residence in Australia. The SCV allows a New Zealand citizen to remain and work in Australia lawfully as long as that person remains a New Zealand citizen.

In conjunction with the introduction of the new bilateral social security arrangement between Australia and New Zealand on 26 February 2001, the Australian Government also announced that New Zealand citizens who arrive in Australia on or after 27 February 2001 must apply for, and be granted, Australian permanent residence if they wish to access certain social security payments not covered by the bilateral agreement, obtain Australian citizenship or sponsor their family members for permanent residence. Under transitional provisions, these changes do not affect New Zealand citizens who:


were in Australia on 26 February 2001 as SCV holders 
were outside Australia on 26 February 2001, but were in Australia as an SCV holder for a total of 12 months in the 2 years prior to that date, and subsequently returned to Australia, or 
have a certificate, issued under the _Social Security Act 1991_, stating that they were residing in Australia on a particular date. These certificates are no longer issued. 
*[/url]Australian citizenship*
*Applying for citizenship*
New Zealand citizens who arrive on or after 27 February 2001 may be eligible for Australian citizenship if they have a permanent visa or meet the transitional provisions described above.

New Zealand citizens, aged 16 and over, applying for Australian citizenship should check the information on penal clearance certificates available from the departments website. *
See:* <A href="http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/character-requirements/index.htm">Character and Penal Clearance Requirements

People who arrived in Australia before the age of 16 and have not resided in New Zealand are not required to provide character and penal clearances.

Further information is available on the departments citizenship website.
*See:* www.citizenship.gov.au 

*Citizenship by birth before 1 September 1994*
Every person born in Australia on or after 26 January 1949 and before 20 August 1986, is an Australian citizen by birth (with the exception of certain children born to diplomats and certain other excluded people). 

Following amendments to the _Australian Citizenship Act 1948_ (the Act), a person born in Australia on or after 20 August 1986 is an Australian citizen by birth only if at least one of the parents was an Australian citizen or permanent resident at the time of the person's birth. However, this did not include the children of New Zealand parents. 

This is because most New Zealanders in Australia between 20 August 1986 and 31 August 1994 were 'exempt non-citizens'2. The Act specifically excluded the children of 'exempt non-citizens' from obtaining Australian citizenship by birth. 

When the Migration Reform Act came into effect on 1 September 1994, the term 'exempt non-citizen' ceased to apply and SCVs were introduced for New Zealand citizens. 

*Citizenship by birth from 1 September 1994 to 26 February 2001* 
From 1 September 1994 to 26 February 2001, a child born in Australia to a New Zealand citizen parent who held an SCV, is an Australian citizen by birth.

*Citizenship by birth From 27 February 2001*
A child born in Australia, on or after 27 February 2001, to a New Zealand citizen parent/s is not an Australian citizen by birth, unless the New Zealand citizen parent:


was not affected by the 26 February 2001 changes, or 
held an Australian permanent resident visa or Australian citizenship. 
*Note:* Children born to a New Zealand parent who was living in Australia temporarily as a diplomat or as the holder of a special purpose visa (that is guests of government, aircrew or armed forces and their families) are not Australian citizens by birth.

*Automatic acquisition of citizenship on 10th birthday.*
A child born in Australia on or after 20 August 1986, who did not acquire Australian citizenship at birth, automatically acquires it on their 10th birthday if they have been ordinarily resident in Australia for 10 years from birth. This provision operates regardless of the parent/s immigration or citizenship 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
in short it all appears to be a matter of timing, good timing easy process low cost, bad luck and poor timing and longer and more expensive process.

</H2>


----------



## staggalee (21/10/08)

Now look!..........please don`t be encouraging more of them over here :lol: 

staggalee.


----------



## SJW (21/10/08)

I thought the idea of this handout was to stimulate the economy and take the pressure off houshold spending.
So would'nt going out and buying a plasma be doing just what its supposed to for the ecomony?
I think the figures look pretty fair to me, but I am just in the running for $2000.  


http://www.facs.gov.au/Internet/FAO/FAO1.n...ftba-income.htm


----------



## staggalee (21/10/08)

SJW said:


> I thought the idea of this handout was to stimulate the economy and take the pressure off houshold spending.
> So would'nt going out and buying a plasma be doing just what its supposed to for the ecomony?
> I think the figures look pretty fair to me, but I am just in the running for $2000.
> 
> ...









staggalee.


----------



## reviled (21/10/08)

staggalee said:


> Now look!..........please don`t be encouraging more of them over here :lol:
> 
> staggalee.



Now now, shit loads of Aussies are coming over here too at the mo.. I deal with them all the time.


----------



## reviled (21/10/08)

SJW said:


> I thought the idea of this handout was to stimulate the economy and take the pressure off houshold spending.
> So would'nt going out and buying a plasma be doing just what its supposed to for the ecomony?
> I think the figures look pretty fair to me, but I am just in the running for $2000.
> 
> ...




Our government is trying to encourage spending again, and I think thats what yours is doing by lowering the OCR by a whole percent... More spending boosts the economy as opposed to everyone hiding their pennys under the matress...


----------



## Screwtop (21/10/08)

Geez clean brewer you sure started something, thought I'd better chime in, seems I'm one of only a few left of the AHB community who haven't expressed an opinion. What do I think about some people receiving a cash bosus and how they spend it ? Hmmmm - thought about it a bit and figured posting on AHB never results in changing the world/politics or the economy so I turned to my book of standard answers and chose 

No. 3: I DON"T GIVE A SHIT

Thanks for the opportunity to once again express my opinion  



So much whinging and conjecture - this thread belongs in the WALOC forum :lol:


----------



## oldbugman (21/10/08)

MartinS said:


> And single mums just steal them.



I once stole a DVD player from a single mum.


----------



## quantocks (21/10/08)

OldBugman said:


> I once stole a DVD player from a single mum.



you basically paid for it anyway 







I'm starting to like Rudd a bit more this morning,



> big-earning CEOs would be taxed at a rate of 50 per cent once their incomes hit $1m under a new 'fat cat tax' plan.


----------



## staggalee (21/10/08)

OldBugman said:


> I once stole a DVD player from a single mum.








How things change  

staggalee.


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## reviled (21/10/08)

quantocks said:


> I'm starting to like Rudd a bit more this morning,
> 
> "big-earning CEOs would be taxed at a rate of 50 per cent once their incomes hit $1m under a new 'fat cat tax' plan."



That may seem like a good thing, but it can also discourage high earning and really good CEO type people from residing and working in Australia, it may work, but could also have a very negative effect on future businesses and in effect your economy...


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