# Font Disconnects - Which Ones?



## komodo (18/10/09)

OK so I've just purchased 6 Perlick 525ss taps and now im looking to (attempt to) build a font (might end up buying one depending on cost looking to do something like the "pipeline" font) - so im trying to decide between SnapLock / FatLok or PushLock fittings. So if you guys could fill me in with the pros and cons for each and the (approx) cost for complete fitting assemblies (ie http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=732) and where to go shopping for them?


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## real_beer (18/10/09)

Komodo said:


> OK so I've just purchased 6 Perlick 525ss taps and now im looking to (attempt to) build a font (might end up buying one depending on cost looking to do something like the "pipeline" font) - so im trying to decide between SnapLock / FatLok or PushLock fittings. So if you guys could fill me in with the pros and cons for each and the (approx) cost for complete fitting assemblies (ie http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=732) and where to go shopping for them?


This guy shows great imagination and his site is well worth looking at: 

http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/Custom-...r-and-Kegerator

On the bottom of the page he has a pdf download listing the parts and prices(US) he paid approx 12 months ago :icon_cheers: .


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## lefty2446 (19/10/09)

Komodo said:


> OK so I've just purchased 6 Perlick 525ss taps and now im looking to (attempt to) build a font (might end up buying one depending on cost looking to do something like the "pipeline" font) - so im trying to decide between SnapLock / FatLok or PushLock fittings. So if you guys could fill me in with the pros and cons for each and the (approx) cost for complete fitting assemblies (ie http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=732) and where to go shopping for them?



Go with Snaplock/Fatlock or Lockin.
Lockin is way more common up here in Brisbane, Snapclock/Fatlock in Sydney. It really depends on what the breweries specifiy in your area.Much more common.
The Pushloc receiver on the fount has a grub screw that tends to come loose, the fitting rotates and can crack the riser line inside the fount. You won't know this until you see all the 'extra' glycol on the floor.

All the other fittings tend to use a 3/4" bsp thread which makes finding compatible founts easier.

Personally I like the pipeline founts as well, they look snazzy. Do try and support the far end adequately as when the are full of glycol and staff are leaning on them I have seen the lower flooding kit snap out of the fount - was not cheap to repair.

Good luck, I hope you find what your after.

Lefty


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## kirem (19/10/09)

I am in exactly the same boat.

I have 4 perlick taps and really like the pipeline font as well.

I have access to a very good stainless welder at work and plan the get him to make one up for me.

what fittings should be put on the pipe? 3/4inch BSP?

Has anyone got some pictures of the ends of the pipe, so I can see how the glycol and beer lines feed into the pipe?


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## komodo (19/10/09)

Ok so im going to do a bit more research into contacts for obtaining either the Snaplock/Fatlock or Lockin disconnects (can someone show me a lockin? I cant seem to find an image of one?) 

But for now I'm pricing up parts to build the font. I think for now I'll just have it built as an air chilled font as I believe with the desing of the "pipeline" font it shouldnt be too hard to retrofit flooding at a latter date should I decide to go that way (as much as I'd love to do it now I'd like to just get it up and running ASAP LOL)

Now I want to confirm that these disconnects as standard use a 3/4" BSP fitting NOT a metric fitting? The reason I ask is because Geordi stainless dont list a 3/4" or 19.05mm BSP socket only an 18mm which im assuming is not the correct fitting and blackwoods who do have a 3/4" dont have one with a smooth finish. 
Any other suggestions for where to look for the (BSP socket) fittings?

EDIT: and to sound like a parrot I need this question answered also - although I think seeing the bottom of any flooded font should answer this question


kirem said:


> Has anyone got some pictures of the ends of the pipe, so I can see how the glycol and beer lines feed into the pipe?



I'm assuming the way a flooded font works is that the entry point for the cooling solution is low in the leg of the font and the drain point is at the highest point in the font? either that or the drain point is severly flow restricted ?


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## lefty2446 (19/10/09)

Komodo said:


> Ok so im going to do a bit more research into contacts for obtaining either the Snaplock/Fatlock or Lockin disconnects (can someone show me a lockin? I cant seem to find an image of one?)



http://www.andale.com.au/product_details.a...=Tap%20Adaptors



Komodo said:


> Now I want to confirm that these disconnects as standard use a 3/4" BSP fitting NOT a metric fitting? The reason I ask is because Geordi stainless dont list a 3/4" or 19.05mm BSP socket only an 18mm which im assuming is not the correct fitting and blackwoods who do have a 3/4" dont have one with a smooth finish.
> Any other suggestions for where to look for the (BSP socket) fittings?



I'm not an expert in such matters but when I purchase water fittings 3/4" is usually referred to as 20mm.




Komodo said:


> I'm assuming the way a flooded font works is that the entry point for the cooling solution is low in the leg of the font and the drain point is at the highest point in the font? either that or the drain point is severly flow restricted ?



Correct, but you have it bass-ackwards. The glycol is fed into the top of the fount with a 1/2" riser (Possibly T'd) with the outlet down the bottom. This way you have all your pretty ice up the top and not down the bottom. Doing it this way you them require a screw hole to bleed out the air. If you don't bleed out the air it dosen't matter, it will dissapear eventually.

Edit: forgot about your flooding kit.
The bottom of the fount has clamps that swell a rubber bush to fit to the line to allow a water tight seal. 

Can post pics tonight if you need them.

Lefty


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## kirem (19/10/09)

I was thinking a 100mm diameter stainless pipe bent to the shape with a thread cut on each end.

One cap has 4 (or how ever many taps you want) through bulkhead nipples welded in plus an extra one for the glycol drain

other cap has two bulkhead nipples welded in for a glycol drain and glycol deliver

mine is to go on the lid of a chest freezer so,

I could geta flange welded on the pipe higher up, so the lower part of the pipe can feed throught the lid into freezer.

distance between flange and end of pipe = thickness of freezer lid

I could have a small diameter SS pipe inside the font to deliver the cold glycol to the tap area.

hmm I think it is time for a drawing.


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## komodo (19/10/09)

Kirem after reading that a few times I now understand.

Lefty photos (particularly if you could get a close up) would be most appreciated. And thank for the link - seems I was a little blind when I looked at that site previously


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## komodo (19/10/09)

Im assuming this is how it ought be?
View attachment Font_rough_design.pdf

PS hope that sketch makes sence.


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## kirem (19/10/09)

Komodo said:


> Im assuming this is how it ought be?
> View attachment 32073
> 
> PS hope that sketch makes sence.




WOW, thanks! 

the only change would be the gylcol drains are only external nipples

the only things left to decide on;

Are the tap spacings (I only have 4 taps)
The pipe diameter

I was thinking of using the standard flexible plastic beer pipe for the beer lines, but there really is no reason that they couldn't be stainless as well. Any thoughts on that?


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## mika (19/10/09)

Ok, call me dense. But how does the beerline attach to the fitting that the snaplock adaptor screws into ? I've never seen a font in pieces.
Presumably it's gotta be some sort of screw fitting with a hosetail on the back.
From my interpretation Komodo's current detail doesn't allow you to service or replace the hose onto the bulkheads at the bottom of the font, unless that bottom plate isn't meant to be welded ?


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## komodo (19/10/09)

the bottom would have to be removable - either a double base plate one as a fixing poing one as a seal plate or have a base plate thats machined to have a seal plate with the barbs fixed in sort of a _====_ type fashion (if that makese sence - i might sketch it up if i get 2 minutes to scratch my ass sketch something)

And kirem would have his verticals extend past the "base plate" or rather fixing point so his seal plate could be as the bottom of the verticals
As for using stainless - no flexibility. if you get a leak or want to change to a different fitting you cant (at least not easily) I think beer line is the way to go you can replace the few meters cheaply - it gives you flexilbility

Edit : Try this sketch - might have to scroll - my acad skills are better than my PDF creating skills apparently LOL

View attachment font_base.pdf


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## lefty2446 (19/10/09)

Ok here's the making of one of my largest posts.

I have 2 founts here, both Andale type. The Hoshizaki Lancer way of doing things is simmilar.

This first pic shows a brumby tap, lockin shank and adaptor (This system is very popular in QLD)




And assembled...



Now we get into the business end of the fount, Note the riser lines are a single line from top to bottom and are usually approx 2m long.



Top of fount assembled.



And with lockin adaptor inserted.



Assembled complete with adaptor, shank and tap.



Adaptor and tap with shank. Normally the adaptor remains on the fount and is only removed if there is a problem. The tap and shank are removed to rekit the tap when the O-rings wear out.



Retaining nut removed from fount. This nut is usually where the tap decals are mounted. If the tap decals are overtightened regularly then this nut can crack, making for an interesting glycol bath for the bar staff.



Adaptor, retaining nut and insert. Note the locating pins on the insert. This enables rotational force to be applied to the insert. The large black O-ring is what seals the glycol side.



Rear of insert showing riser line attachment. This one used an ferule insert that is pressed into the end of the riser line then the retaining coller is tightened up forming a seal on the end of the beer line. Commonly the riser line will attach to a John Guest fitting. Andale seems to love these ferule fittings. They do notthing but piss me off, dificult to work with.



Inside of the bare fount with locating pins that match the insert.



Empty fount, showing all the holes with no riser lines or glycol.



Another mic of the same thing...



From the top of a T'bar fount back to the bottom end.



Side on view of bare fount with no insert or retaining nut.



I hope that this post has answered more questions than it raises but there you go.

Lefty


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## komodo (19/10/09)

Lefty you're a dead set champion!
That answers a lot. I need to do a whole lot more research but those pics and explainations are awesome!
Appreciate that a whole lot!


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## lefty2446 (19/10/09)

Komodo said:


> Lefty you're a dead set champion!
> That answers a lot. I need to do a whole lot more research but those pics and explainations are awesome!
> Appreciate that a whole lot!



Your welcome!
Those inserts nuts and bits are what goes into increasing the cost of the fount...

Adrian


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## kirem (20/10/09)

I know there must be a good reason, why can't you just screw the tap straight into the font?


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## komodo (20/10/09)

how do you get beer line straight into the tap?

Man I shouldn't be allowed to think. I had a thought last night...

If I was to put a PVC pipe "sleeve" inside and run the beer lines in that I could flood that continuously with a glycol mix at the same temp as the fridge. Then when I wanted to entertain (or just show off) I could run a glycol mix at - 20 degrees to freeze the font up because the beer lines are in a PVC sleeve with glycol at a warmer temp the beer lines shouldnt freeze up?I would just need to run T pieces into the BSP socket. Yep probably wont work but im gunna have to give it a go now I've though about it.


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## kirem (20/10/09)

Komodo said:


> how do you get beer line straight into the tap?



From what I can gather the line travels inside the font and connects to a fitting inside the font that has a thread on the outside of the font that you normally connect a disconnect to.

So if you screw a tap directly onto the font (rather than a disconnect) then beer is then fed straight into the tap, ie screw directly into the insert in this picture.

View attachment 32117


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## komodo (20/10/09)

I would think you would need something like this to connect the beer line to?




But how do you get that into your font?
Unless you had some kind of union that was male 5/8" female 5/8" welded to the font - but then how do you connect the hosetail?

I don't think the tap would screw into the insert - you would need some form of bushing?


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## lefty2446 (20/10/09)

kirem said:


> I know there must be a good reason, why can't you just screw the tap straight into the font?



In a commercial installation the tap adaptor/shank combo allows you to remove the tap from a 'live' beer line and not wear a keg of beer. Not a real problem in a home setup though. So what you really need is a special shank that allows a JG fitting in the back, screw the tap onto that and is removable somehow.

(Throwing ideas around)
Adrian


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## komodo (27/10/09)

Adrian,

I know I'm a pest but you seem to be the man in the know on these things. I've been studying those pictures and its taken me a while to actually get my head around the whole thing and how its going to work on my "pipeline" font. (man its hard to find any info on building a font or font parts online!)

Now if im following those pictures correctly there is a (machined with locating pins?) socket that is welded to the main part of the font. The end of the socket has a male thread. Then an insert nut, which the snaploc / pushlock adaptor screws into, is connected to a beer line which is then fed through the socket and then the insert nut is inserted into the socket where it is located by the locating pins. Then a retaining nut is screwed onto the socket holding in place the insert nut and creating a seal so glycol doesnt come out of the font (with the assistance of an o-ring on the insert nut).

Perhaps a picture will help. see attached
View attachment 20091027101301805.pdf


Now can you buy the (machined) socket for the font? or do I have to look to getting such a socket machined up myself?
Obviously I can buy the insert and the retaining nut?

Have I got this part correct or am I barking up the wrong tree? 

I'm assuming then that the snaploc / pushlock or what ever adaptor then screws into the insert nut which I assume has a 3/4" BSP female thread?

Something tells me all these parts are going to be pretty pricey!

Cheers for your help so far its really appreciated.

Regards,
Kirk


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## komodo (27/10/09)

Any one got any info on a source for the socket for the insert nut and retaining nut?


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## MHB (27/10/09)

You might be able to do something with this from *Andale**.
*MHB

View attachment 32375


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## NickB (27/10/09)

Where would I be able to buy some lockin shanks? I think andale have them (waiting on a response), but imagine they won't be super cheap.....

Cheers


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## komodo (28/10/09)

MHB not quite gunna work. I did look at those fittings myself, but unless I put a pipe stub with a flange welded its not going to work.

I'm starting to wonder if I just get a bit of tube with a thread cut one end if that would work. If I need to locate I could drill a hole and insert a pin and plug weld it.


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## MHB (28/10/09)

Well the last suggestion I have is a Taipan Tap Adaptor, the thread is BSP, so you can just weld some sockets onto the T Bar. The line coming in can be 4, 5 or 6 mm, just order the appropriate nut and olive with the adaptor.
MHB
View attachment 32387


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## komodo (28/10/09)

PERFECT!
I take it you stock them?


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## MHB (28/10/09)

There are a couple kicking around the shop, but they are an off the shelf Andale part made in Melbourne, give them a call on (03) 9335 1066, if you have any trouble send me an e-mail.
Hope the project works out for you, but I think its a whole lot easier to keep an eye on eBay, there are some real bargains to be had if your patient.
MHB


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## komodo (28/10/09)

Cheers I'll give em a go tomorrow. Appreciate the help. Been a lot of help in this thread and via PMs and emails - appreciate it!


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## bill_gill85 (28/10/09)

Komodo,

I too may be interested in the Taipan adaptor. If you get pricing for the part, could you please either post it here ore PM me.

Thanks

Ben


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## komodo (28/10/09)

Will do!

Its a PITA that these items are so hard to track down online. Surely a picture with RRP indicitive pricing then "contact us for upto date pricing and availablity" wouldn't be that hard. I would have wasted half as much of my time nor theres if i could browse at my leasure to find the parts and part numbers then send off a list for pricing. Grrrr. Maybe I've been in stock procurement too long LOL


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## lefty2446 (28/10/09)

Hoshizaki Lancer has an alternate part that you weld into the fount. It does the same job but is slightly different. I'll see if I can source them tomorrow for you.

Lefty


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## komodo (28/10/09)

Thanks Lefty!


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## lefty2446 (31/10/09)

Well I enquired and they are still looking into it for me.

*Watch this Space*

Lefty


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## komodo (31/10/09)

Thanks Lefty.

Billgill I haven't had a chance to call Andale about that taipan adaptor. Plus im interested to see what lefty comes back with.


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## komodo (5/11/09)

Not meaning to be a pain in the arse lefty but have you heard anything from Hoshizaki Lancer?


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## lefty2446 (5/11/09)

Komodo said:


> Not meaning to be a pain in the arse lefty but have you heard anything from Hoshizaki Lancer?





Yes.

I'll send you A PM.

Lefty


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## mika (5/11/09)

Don't go all secret squirrel on us now, others are also interested.


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## komodo (5/11/09)

Thanks Lefty for the PM.

mika once I digest all the information I'll post up but I wont put prices up unless lefty says its ok - lets just I can see where a LOT of the cost of a commercially made font is.


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## mika (5/11/09)

Cool, not fussed about prices, just wanted to know what options are avialable. I've hopefully got a font on it's way to me, so this won't apply to me anymore, but I'm still interested.


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## NickB (6/11/09)

Just a quickie, but does anyone have a run down on how to re-do the lines in a flooded font? Would be really helpful as I've just got mine.....

Cheers


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## clean brewer (6/11/09)

NickB said:


> Just a quickie, but does anyone have a run down on how to re-do the lines in a flooded font? Would be really helpful as I've just got mine.....
> 
> Cheers



Flooded Font hey Nick???? :beerbang: I think a trip to Kingas/Nanango is on the cards...  

CB


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## lefty2446 (6/11/09)

Here are some pics of a Hoshizaki Lancer fount and flooding kit.

First pic business end.
Shown is (from front to fount)
Fount Insert 3/4BSP SS (Tap adaptor screws into this)
Bush Scalloped SS 3/4BSP (Welded to fount)
Not Shown:
Olive internal SS 4mm Riser (Pushed into end of riser line)
Insert Nut brass allbar fount (Goes over the riser line to push the line and olive into the back of the fount insert)






Visible in this pic from left to right is:
Kinko Nut 1-1/2BSP
Flooding kit
Seal Rubber H23B (Around riser line just visible between the 2 brass plates. The brass plates squeeze the oring to make a seal with the riser line)
ORing BS127 (Large Oring that seals the flooding kit to the large nipple tube)
Cobra nipple tube 1-1/2BSP (Fixing support for fount)
Flanged back nut 1-1/2BSP
Not shown is large gal washer that goes between the flanged nut and the underside bar.





The entire shebang assembled.
NB The method of attaching the cobra nipple tube to the fount is left to the fabricator, you could machine the threads off and silver solder brass to stainless without issue.



Lefty


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## komodo (6/11/09)

Excellent that explains a lot. I'm a WHOLE lot less confused than I was last night (thank goodness for that!)

1 question that still remains. These fonts are the main pipes/tubes 3" (76mm) or 4" (101mm) obviously if they are one I cant use the other because the scalloped bush wont suit.


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## lefty2446 (6/11/09)

NickB said:


> Just a quickie, but does anyone have a run down on how to re-do the lines in a flooded font? Would be really helpful as I've just got mine.....
> 
> Cheers



What sort of fount is it NickB?

Lefty


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## lefty2446 (6/11/09)

Komodo said:


> Excellent that explains a lot. I'm a WHOLE lot less confused than I was last night (thank goodness for that!)
> 
> 1 question that still remains. These fonts are the main pipes/tubes 3" (76mm) or 4" (101mm) obviously if they are one I cant use the other because the scalloped bush wont suit.



3". if you were to use 4" tube then you would have to hand grind the scalloped bush to suit the new tube radius. For illustrative purposes the pics in that other post were of a 3" fount.

Lefty


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## komodo (6/11/09)

Thanks Lefty - PM sent


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## NickB (8/11/09)

lefty2446 said:


> What sort of fount is it NickB?
> 
> Lefty



Not sure of the manufacturer, but it's a 5 tap flooded font with lockin adaptors.

View attachment 32741


When you screw the adaptors off the font, there is a sort of plastic circular insert (which I can't seem to remove), with a hole in the centre for the beer, and two smaller holes around the outside (not all the way through though).

View attachment 32740


Have got the line end of the font sorted, but can't work out how to get either the lines out of the adaptors, or either of the ends off (the caps are off, but there are some brass (?) inserts that I can't work out, both have what looks like threaded screw holes part way through....)

View attachment 32742


Cheers


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## lefty2446 (8/11/09)

I'm guessing that you will need to manufacture yourself a special tool to unscrew the plastic plugs behind the tap adaptors.

Did the threaded hole on the ends support the end cap?

Why do you wish to install new riser lines in the fount? What is wrong with the current ones?

Adrian


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## NickB (8/11/09)

Hi,

I'm replacing the beer lines, not sure if this is the riser line you're referring to, or wether it's the glycol line. Either way, the beer lines very old and has been removed right at the base of the unit, plus I'm needing around 4-5m of line/tap....

As for the end caps, they just screwed off, and did not touch the brass insert. Not sure what the go is with the ends, but my main concern is replacing the beer line....

Cheers


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## komodo (8/11/09)

Nick,
My understanding is the "riser lines" refers to the beer lines coming from the bottom of the font "rising" up the font to the outlet points. 
I think what Lefty is saying is that you will need to manufacture some kind of tool with two pins to insert into those outter holes of that plastic insert to unscrew them out to replace the riser lines.
One thing - its fairly normal for the riser lines to stop at the bottom of the font where you would then normally connect your beer lines or python line to the riser lines using john guest or similar fittings?
Hope that helps

Cheers,
Kirk


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## NickB (8/11/09)

Yeah, have given up on replacing them for now. Will just grab some john guest fittings and go from there 

Thanks all or your help

Cheers


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## lefty2446 (8/11/09)

Yes, sorry. The beer lines inside the fount are called 'riser' lines and are usually only 0.5 - 1m longer than the bottom of the fount. you then adapt / attach to your regular beer lines with reducing splicers.

I have never seen the inside of one of those founts & therefore would only be guessing (as you are  ) If the lines coming out the bottom are long enough for JG splicers then I'd seriously recommend leaving it at that, Unless someone else chimes in with specific information.

Adrian


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## komodo (24/11/09)

holy fricken hell its christmas!

Parts for my font just arrived in the post. WOW! 

Between my mill and now these font parts I've given the CC (thankfully its a debit card I'd be in a lot of trouble if I still had a real credit card) a workout over the last few weeks - told the missus were living off bread and water for the next few weeks


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## glaab (24/11/09)

Komodo said:


> holy fricken hell its christmas!
> 
> Parts for my font just arrived in the post. WOW!
> 
> Between my mill and now these font parts I've given the CC (thankfully its a debit card I'd be in a lot of trouble if I still had a real credit card) a workout over the last few weeks - told the missus were living off bread and water for the next few weeks



well wheres the pretty pictures? :beerbang:


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## komodo (24/11/09)

Tonight I'll get pics of the parts. 

Wont be able to assemble it for a few weeks as my mate whos the stainless welder (you'd think with a workshop with 11 boiler makers and 3 welders I'd have someone in the workshop who could weld stainless here at work... actually the biggest problem is a few of them can we just dont have tig and our migs are all set up for heavy mild steel) is away for a few weeks


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