# Where To Buy Small Glass Carboys



## DJbrewer (1/6/09)

Hello,

I have been reading some threads about making mead and it seems everyone uses small glass carboys for the fermentation rather than plastic.

So, 
1. is there a reason for the glass over the plastic?
2. where can I buy small 5L (?) glass carboys?
3. how do you get the liquid out at the end? do you just siphon it out? if so, what with? any special equipment or just a hose? I assume you clean the equipment beforehand....

thanks for any advice.


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## bakkerman (1/6/09)

Hi DJ,

These 5 liter carboys are called a demijohn. 
It's a flask with a swingtop seal.
I picked mine up at a LHBS some time ago.
It's a great size for yeast starters and small brews, and yes, siphoning is the way to get the liquid out.

I clean these same as my conical flasks: hot water and sodium percarbonate.

Glass has the advantage that it let's through less oxygen than plastic, which helps if you keep the mead in the bottle for a while.


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## dj1984 (1/6/09)

What state are you in mate?


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## DJbrewer (1/6/09)

bakkerman said:


> Hi DJ,
> 
> These 5 liter carboys are called a demijohn.
> It's a flask with a swingtop seal.
> ...



thanks for the info on "demijohns". 

so, how do you get the initial suction going for the siphoning? Do you simply suck it out? 
am i missing something obvious?!
Most people now only have larger glass carboys- i have not found anyone with the demijohns in Melbourne.

I have been wondering about glass versus plastic for bottling (but that is for another thread or just search as it must have been discussed heaps before).

thanks.


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## DJbrewer (1/6/09)

dj1984 said:


> What state are you in mate?



thansk for the reply.

I am in Melbourne.


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## dj1984 (1/6/09)

I would be looking in places where they sell stuff to make wine


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## DJbrewer (1/6/09)

dj1984 said:


> I would be looking in places where they sell stuff to make wine



good idea. there is a place in North Melbourne that sells wine supplies.


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## reVoxAHB (1/6/09)

Grain and Grape (Melbourne) sell them here. 

They also stock various sizes including accessories like brushes for cleaning, etc. here. 

In regard to starting a syphon, use a racking cane and prime it by filling the entire cane and hose with liquid of choice (I prefer diluted iodophor mixture) then using gravity pull from vessel decanting the initial priming liquid into a catch jar, then running to secondary, keg, etc. 

G&G also sell an auto-priming racking cane (Canadian manufacturer) taking the "work" (if you can consider it as such) out of the above procedure.

Racking is dead easy. Practice a couple of times with water only before working with you wort/beer/mead and you'll get the swing of it.

reVox


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## DJbrewer (1/6/09)

reVox said:


> Grain and Grape (Melbourne) sell them here.
> 
> They also stock various sizes including accessories like brushes for cleaning, etc. here.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links and the info on syphoning...
once i was told the correct name I have found heaps of stockists!
syhoning does not sound too hard although a racking cane makes it seem even easier. 
I will be going up toward Grain and Grape on the weekend so will stop in.


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## reVoxAHB (1/6/09)

DJbrewer said:


> Thanks for the links and the info on syphoning...
> once i was told the correct name I have found heaps of stockists!
> syhoning does not sound too hard although a racking cane makes it seem even easier.
> I will be going up toward Grain and Grape on the weekend so will stop in.



Sure, no worries. G&G sell both plastic and stainless steel racking canes.. if you plan on always (only) using 5L demijohns, I might recommend you grab the plastic (it's cheaper anyway) and hack the length down to suit the demijohn.. otherwise they're pretty much designed for 23L glass carboys. I've cut mine using a hacksaw. 

reVox


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## DJbrewer (1/6/09)

great- thanks for the excellent tip.


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## Cracka (1/6/09)

dj1984 said:


> What state are you in mate?




Pissed










Sorry couldn't resist


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## pdilley (1/6/09)

Technical correct term would be a 1 gallon glass Growler but Australians dont have the term for them over here so they call them demis and some people in the states will call the carboys. Growlers look like neither of them.

Growlers are traditionally a 1/2 gallon glass container for selling bulk "take-out" beer in some parts of the US. They've grown in size to 1 gallon as demand has increased from juice bottlers who sell their fancy juice in fancy organic supermarkets at fancy prices.

We benefit because of the increased size, but as always not in price. Retail 1 Gallon (5 litre) glass Growlers are $4.99 each in the US. We pay about four times that at the LHBS. But then our yeast packets are about $0.99 each to $1.20 each at US LHBSs so we are about four to five times the price there so at least we are consistent 

All the LHBS in the ACT carry them and you've got some great pointers for finding them locally from the members of AHB so you'll have some in no time.

The best racking system for them I can not buy over here. The only parts of the system we have from retailers are tubing and the spring loaded bottle filler end. Missing is a two hole rubber demi/carboy top with hepa filter and stainless racking can that you insert into the bottle and hild down the lid to seal for 3 seconds as you blow throuhj the filter and whamo instant siphon in seconds with no cursing or fiddling with dodgy designs. The whole deal is $16 USD or so including stainless racking cane, tubing, filter and two hole caps. Maybe I should organise a multi-club bulk buy for Aussie brew clubs as this item is unqvailable in he country. Jus one component alone would cost you what the whole package is in Aussie dollars locally. Split shipping international + aussie Post hopefully will keep total cost about half of buying pars and shipping locally to build you own. As a single purchase its no go as US PO dropped the ultra cheap sea postage option to Australia. Bulk buy is the only way to bring shipping down per item to something very attractive.


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## tfxm (1/6/09)

Hi,

I brew small all-grain batches and ferment in 5L carboys; basically jugs used for bulk wine. I have brought them from both WineQuip (www.winequip.com.au) and from Cellar Plus (www.cellarplus.com.au). WineQuip were the cheapest, and gave a discount when i brought 6 .... Grain & Grape also have them.

I used to siphon from the carboy using a regular racking cane and some tubing - I filled the tubing with water before attaching to the cane which would start the siphon running .... It worked fine, but was a bit dodgy. Last year i brought a mini auto-siphon from the US which is much better, but I was in the states at the time so i'm not sure if you can get them shipped here .... the larger auto-siphons you can get here may be a bit large ....

Cheers,
Tom


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## DJbrewer (2/6/09)

thanks, txfm and Brewer Peter, for your replies.
always good to get such quick and informative replies on this forum.

not sure about bulk purchases - still learning! but i like anything that makes life easier for me, so...

looks like i will be out buying stuff this weekend...


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## flattop (2/6/09)

If you are in the South East try Brewers Den, i was pricing them last week around $17 for 5 liter with swing lid.
I need some for my mead....


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## bum (2/6/09)

Would a jiggler siphon be suitable for homebrew purposes? These are cheap as and can bet gotten all over the place.


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## pdilley (2/6/09)

By bulk purchase I was actually meaning this siphon kit.




We don't have all the parts in Oz to build it ourself.

The whole kit only costs $14.95 US Dollars. At the current exchange rate that is $18.52 Aussie dollars.

Now depending on the bulk deal you have to factor in some international shipping cost component, then shipping locally postage + packaging. To save on local posting costs if every local brew club in Australia participates then its only a single mini-bulk mailing to the club officer who will then bring them to the next meeting for all club members.

The easiest way to start a siphon. In 2 seconds you have your siphon working with no effort and no contamination as the hepa filter is involved (we can get the hepa filter locally but the price in Oz is close to $9 and then add shipping on top of that. So almost the whole price of the whole kit from the USA!)

The movie is here to see no moving parts to break, and siphon in seconds: Link to Movie of Siphon in action. Quicktime .MOV file

What you get in the kit:

26 inch Stainless Racking Cane (66 cm long)
Red Sediment Reduction Tip (on the bottom of the cane)
Yellow Carboy Hood for 6.5 Gallon Carboy (fits demijohns, carboys, anything you slide the rubber hood down and make a seal for the 2 seconds for starting siphon)
5' 3/8" ID Vinyl Tubing
Stainless Hose Clamp
Sterile Air Filter (hepa filter)

Of course this is for full size fermenters and would be big for 5 litres but if you buy and ship over a 5 litre size siphon you are stuck in case you want to use it with big fermenters. With the large fermenter kit you can look silly but still get it in a 5 litre glass Growler is my thinking.

From the site:

Simply blow into the sterile filter, which slightly pressurizes the carboy, causing beer to flow out. This is hands down superior to the numerous other methods of starting a siphon (and we have tried them all!) No sucking the end of the tube, no plungers with faulty gaskets, no shaking, no filling up the tube with unsterilized water, nothing to break, no contamination, no disturbing the sediment, and no fuss. Can you tell we really like it!

How to Use Attach the Sterile Siphon starter assembly by firmly pushing the orange or yellow carboy hood over the mouth of the carboy. Slide the stainless racking cane to the desired depth, just about the sediment level and blow into the white, sanitary air filter for 2-3 seconds. Blowing through the filter forces beer out through the racking cane, starting the siphon. There is no need to worry about contamination from your mouth, as the sanitary filter removes 99.98% of airborne bacteria. For a video demonstration, check out the video below. 

Tip to Remove Oxygen in Line We suggest that as your starting the siphon you pinch the clear, flexible tubing near the racking cane. Release the pinch on the tubing after 1-2 seconds, while continuing to blow through for an additional second. This will cause the clear vinyl tubing to fill completely with beer, eliminating oxidation that can occur in siphoning when your line is not completely full and beer is mixing with oxygen. 

Special Tip for Additional Use of Sterile Siphon Starter on Brew Day
During the brew day fill your carboy with sanitizer as normal. Take the red tip off the end of the stainless racking cane and insert Siphon Starter assembly into carboy filled with sanitizer. Blow on filter to begin siphoning sanitizer out of carboy. As the sanitizer empties the carboy fills with filtered air, leaving a sanitized, bacteria free environment to fill your beer into. 

About the White Sterile Filter: There are two sides to the filter - an "in" and an "out". The direction you use doesn't matter, however, you want to take note of which way you first push air through it and always keep it that way. There is an arrow on the edge of the filter housing that we use to keep the air flow going one direction when using it. The filter should never get wet, so don't try and sanitize it by dunking it in sanitizer. If you want to clean the outside of it, use Alpet D2. To store the filter, use a little tinfoil on the "In" of the filter and store in a zip-lock bag.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## bakkerman (2/6/09)

That siphon looks the biz.. I'd be up for one of those if a bulk buy eventuates..

Got a mead in a demijohn and two lambics in water cooler bottles that I need to get out..


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## pdilley (4/6/09)

bakkerman said:


> That siphon looks the biz.. I'd be up for one of those if a bulk buy eventuates..
> 
> Got a mead in a demijohn and two lambics in water cooler bottles that I need to get out..



Bakkerman,

I did a pricing on shipping for the local Canberra Club.

To minimize per item price this is best order as a local club bulk buy so only one shipping cost is involved (USA to Club Member who brings it all in to the local Clubs next meeting). If the Canberra Club goes for it and the order goes ahead you can get on it if you want to come down to get it. Or estimate another $5-6 for a small box from Australia Post + ?$10 local parcel shipping fee?

I used the online postage calculator for the US Post Office. 

International shipping will get it to Australia via Air in about 6 to 10 days. 

The price to ship one of these is $41-54 
The price to ship two of these is $41-54 

The price to ship 10 of these is $41-54 

The price to ship 19 of these is $41-54 

20 Pounds is the limit then the shipping price jumps to well over $130. 


EDIT: Price subject to change with changing dollar conditions and if there is a packaging fee for the shipping box from the American online reseller. 
If 10 people jump on the order it will cost them roughly $19 + $5 shipping. 

That is $24 total for your full kit. 

If 20 people jump on and the box and 20 kits combine to 20 pounds or less than per shipping cost for each item is $2.50 so we are talking total price is $21.50 for your kit. 

For the TIGHT ASSES out there, if you just buy the stainless steel racking cane inside of Australia it is $25, assuming $10 postage cost you are paying $35 for the cane when you get the entire kit for $21.50 if we max out our members in the bulk buy. 

$25 for the stainless rack cane. 
$9 for the hepa filter 
--- can not get the carboy cap in Oz. 
$4 for misc tubing 
? for the end cap to lift the rack off the bottom and disturb the cake less 
$3 for a stainless clip 
throw in $20 for shipping because you can not buy all these pieces at one reseller. 

You pay about $62 Australian to build your own kit versus $21.50 (if the Aussie dollar holds at its current high of .82 to the US Dollar). We will call it $22-$23 to kick in for the international bank charge to convert the credit money from Australian dollars to US dollars. 

$62 in Australia 
$23 in bulk buy from America deal 

Space limited to 19 or so members to get in on the bulk buy if Canberra Brewers Club goes for it. 


Cheers, 
Brewer Pete


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## bum (4/6/09)

I was in my LHBS today asking after a demi-john so I can play with small batch ciders - something I hadn't even thought about until this thread, so thanks for the idea! Only at the last minute before purchase did I think to ask for a bung and airlock and the thing is he discovered he doesn't stock bungs to suit. He had many demi-johns but sold nothing to seal them. Have I come at this from the wrong angle? Are airlocks not used with these? The guy didn't look at me funny when I asked for one - he was more like "Oh yeah, of course." Although, I am on record as not having the most faith in my LHBS attendant.


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## Tyred (4/6/09)

Airlocks can be used with these, although I suppose you could use glad wrap and a rubber band.

When I got my demijohns (some time ago) I got them with bored bungs which you could put an airlock into.


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## bum (4/6/09)

Yeah, I was asking for one of those. Afterwards I did think about the gladwrap method and while I know many people like this method I do find the airlock somewhat re-assuring. I guess I'll just try another HBS at some other point.


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## pdilley (4/6/09)

The rubber bung for these bottles looks skinny and like a rubber wine cork as far as width on top of the taper. They are ditty compared to the big rubber buggers we use in the full sized demijohns.

I'll try and dig up a zoomed in picture if I can grab it off another post.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: Picture


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## JonnyAnchovy (4/6/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> Of course this is for full size fermenters and would be big for 5 litres but if you buy and ship over a 5 litre size siphon you are stuck in case you want to use it with big fermenters. With the large fermenter kit you can look silly but still get it in a 5 litre glass Growler is my thinking.



I'd be keen for one of these - but I'm not sure about the above statement - from the piccy it looks like the orange part seals on top of the carboy. Unless the prage cap slides up and down the cane I don't think you could use this for small batches.


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## pdilley (4/6/09)

JonnyAnchovy said:


> I'd be keen for one of these - but I'm not sure about the above statement - from the piccy it looks like the orange part seals on top of the carboy. Unless the prage cap slides up and down the cane I don't think you could use this for small batches.



No, you'd have to buy a smaller bung, drill out and reuse some components from the big kit for your small kit, mostly the hepa filter disc.

The seal could be used as you only need to press down on the rubber top only while you are blowing to start the siphon, after it is running you do not need the seal to be perfect unless you only want HEPA filtered air to enter your fermentation vessel. Personally I'd rather take it out as soon as the siphon is running to preserve how many uses you get out of blowing through it before replacing the filter as I'm all for turbo quick and easy siphon not sterile racking environment where you use up the filter pulling all that air through it.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## bakkerman (4/6/09)

Thanks for the bulk buy calculations Pete, 

If a Bulk buy with the Canberra club eventuates please let us know!


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## DJbrewer (5/6/09)

thanks for all of the replies.
one of my LHBS has the demijohns, %L narrow neck, 1 gallon and the wide neck.


I would probably be in on a bulk purchase.
but what size neck would the siphon fit? assuming i buy a 5L or 1gallon demijohn


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## reVoxAHB (5/6/09)

bum said:


> I was in my LHBS today asking after a demi-john so I can play with small batch ciders - something I hadn't even thought about until this thread, so thanks for the idea! Only at the last minute before purchase did I think to ask for a bung and airlock and the thing is he discovered he doesn't stock bungs to suit. He had many demi-johns but sold nothing to seal them. Have I come at this from the wrong angle? Are airlocks not used with these? The guy didn't look at me funny when I asked for one - he was more like "Oh yeah, of course." Although, I am on record as not having the most faith in my LHBS attendant.



Grain and Grape stock the necessary bungs and airlocks (mini 2-piece) to suit 5L glass demijohns. And if you are referring to BrewCraft, they have no idea what the hell is going on. 

reVox


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## bum (5/6/09)

Nah not BrewCraft. But I have established that my local isn't a great deal better.

Thanks for the tips, Brewer Pete and ReVox.


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## pdilley (5/6/09)

The inner diameter and outer diameter for the carboys used in the States are 3 1/2 centimeters and 5 1/2 centimeters approximately.

The 26" Stainless Racking cane has a 3/8" diameter which is 9.5mm or close enough to 1cm.
26" long is 66cm therefore this is designed for fermentation vessels up to (6.5 gallons) 24 litres in size.
There is a smaller one for 18.9 litre (5 gallons) fermenters.

A large demijohn will be close to 4cm inner open diameter.
A small 5l demijohn will be close to 3cm inner open diameter.

You have plenty of room to work with. Just a tall cane sticking out when working with your 5L small demijohns.

There is a retractable racking cane, again I have never seen them sold in Australia yet, but its not part of the assembled kit above.

I have a bottle filler/spring loaded I use but if you can not picture it. Then watch 

With the parts available locally you are currently trying to beat 14.95 U.S. dollars = 18.59 Australian dollars in your component cost to assemble all the parts into the kit on the previous page (66cm/1cm Stainless Steel Racking Cane, Sediment Reducer Tip for Racking Cane, 1.5 metres of 1cm tubing, Stainless Steel hose clamp, Orange Rubber Fermenter Cap with 2 holes molded in, Inline HEPA Filter Disc).



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## DJbrewer (10/6/09)

hey, thanks for all of the advice. glad that a few others added comments and questions!

looks like my yeast arrives tomorrow and so will have to get the demijohns befor the weekend is out.


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## adama_bill (12/8/09)

Hey Brewer Pete. . . anyone?

Thats a great _auto siphon __- I'd *definitely *get a couple (one for me and one for a mate). _


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## pdilley (13/8/09)

There was not originally enough interest to warrant a bulk buy (shipping costs) as other bulk buys were going on at the same time that swamped this one under. But the idea will likely be floated again soon. Probably a small group through canberra brewers and then AHB'rs would need to factor in the additional shipping costs to get them at their homes. But again it won't be right away so its something to know thats neat and nice to have and a future item to jump on if it rolls.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## adama_bill (14/8/09)

"But the idea will likely be floated again soon."

Hi Brewer Pete

You reckon the idea _might float in a month or two_?
Being a lazy sod, I'd like to get *a couple* of these auto-siphon things though an Aussie syndicate.

I'd have thought that some local brewing supply shop would love to jump on the idea ~ i.e. if the canberra brewers wanted 20 units and say they got imported in 100 unit packs; surely some shop would take the 80 remainders?  

Regards


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## notung (26/6/10)

The Northern Brewer website sells these carboy syphon caps alone, which presumably can team up with a 3/8" or 1/2" racking cane setup.


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## Brewing_Brad (27/6/10)

Even though the conversation has moved on, but I just wanted to add that I used to go down to the local bottle-o and pick up a couple of cheap 5L flaggons plonk (I can remember the price now, but I'm sure I go change from a $20). I usually made vinegar out of the wine inside because it was not fit for human consumption, but the bottles were the perfect size for doing small batches.

Here's a picture of what I mean:


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## NickB (27/6/10)

Should be able to pick the 5L glass demijohns/fermenters from any good LHBS for around $15. Personally wouldn't pay much more than that, so I didn't!

Cheers


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## leiothrix (19/7/10)

notung said:


> The Northern Brewer website sells these carboy syphon caps alone, which presumably can team up with a 3/8" or 1/2" racking cane setup.





> http://www.northernbrewer.com/shipping
> *Outside the Contiguous US*
> 
> Northern Brewer does not ship internationally.






If a bulk buy did eventuate i'd certainly be interested . . .

Rob


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## pk.sax (19/8/10)

I'd been watching this one last month thinking of putting in a 5ltr batch of cider.

I did, and used a 'demijohn', bought from my LHBS, the brewers den. Went today to pick up a siphon. $14, plastic racking cane and tubing and parts, racking cane is 2 part, extendable (tube inside tube slide out) under the bit that fits into the carboy's mouth, had to trim one part an inch or so to get it to work with the 5ltr bottle. works perfect. Has a tiny second tube to blow in through to start the siphon as well. A pinch clip included as well.

For 14 quid, I can't fault it in any way. planning to siphon the cider into a second carboy, add priming sugar and then attach the 'little bottler' to the end of the tubing to siphon the cider the second time over into bottles.


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