# Pintail Pale Clone



## Killer Brew (20/10/15)

Hi All

Looking for some advice on my attempt at a Karl Strauss Pintail Pale Ale style beer. From their website I have been able to confirm the following: Cascade, Chinook & Amarillo (dry hopped); ABV 5.3% & IBU's 47.

This will be my first brew on my brand new GrainFather. I have taken a stab at a hop schedule that delivers the required IBU's but am unsure if it will deliver the taste. Also interested in views on my mash temp of 63c degrees. Any advice appreciated.

Title: Pintail Pale Ale
Author: Killer Brew

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 22 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 30 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.036
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 4.97%
IBU (tinseth): 47.88
SRM (morey): 6.83

FERMENTABLES:
4 kg - American - Pale 2-Row (83.3%)
0.5 kg - American - Munich - Light 10L (10.4%)
0.3 kg - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (6.3%)

HOPS:
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 12.56
15 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 16.52
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 8.28
15 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 7.79
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 2.73
15 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 0 min
50 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 63 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8 L
Starting Mash Thickness: 3.5 L/kg

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 15.56 - 22.22 C
Fermentation Temp: 19 C
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

​


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## razz (21/10/15)

They also list pale malt and caramel 60 for the colour at 15 SRM, you may need to increase the crystal or use something a bit darker. They list Newport hops in the initial description but then refer to Chinook instead in the stats panel. Regardless, it will be a tasty ale!
Edit. I was just looking at a Carl Strauss video on Vimeo and they also describe Newport, not Chinook hops. Along with caramel and carapils malts.


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## Killer Brew (21/10/15)

Hmmm, thanks for that. Have the Chinook now so will run with that first up. Had missed the SRM on their site, will add a little Crystal.


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## mxd (21/10/15)

looks fine,

I was in the midst of creating a recipe as well, as Chinook and I aren't best of friends, it was only going to be used for the the bittering aspect (first 30 minutes)

I was also going to attempt to get about 30 ibus in the last 20 minutes (all cascade) and dry hop twice (hop bag) once on day 3 (1.5 g a ltr) for 2 or 3 days and then when when cold chill (1.5 g a ltr)


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## Killer Brew (21/10/15)

Sounds good too. This is my first experience with Chinook. Anything I should watch out for?


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## Droopy Brew (21/10/15)

Excessive pine.
I have found it works well early in the boil but dont use it beyond 30 min these days- usually just at 60 min.


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## Killer Brew (21/10/15)

Droopy Brew said:


> Excessive pine.
> I have found it works well early in the boil but dont use it beyond 30 min these days- usually just at 60 min.


Right. So I should make some serious adjustment to my hop schedule then?


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## Blind Dog (22/10/15)

Personally I'm the other way round with Chinook and won't use it early as I find it harsh, but love it late and in a dry hop mix where it adds grapefruit, rind and a bit of pine.

I'm also pretty sure that they used to use a clean bittering hop and cascade and motueka in the late and dry hop rather than what's shown above. As their website agrees to your hop choices, that may just be my sh** memory.


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## razz (22/10/15)

Whilst we are talking Chinook, I've done an Arrogant Bastard clone with all chinook at 60, 20, 0 and dry hopped and it is great.


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## super_simian (22/10/15)

I've never had a good Pintail -they always come across as a classic "American Stale Ale". All cardboard and no hops.


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## Droopy Brew (22/10/15)

Killer Brew said:


> Right. So I should make some serious adjustment to my hop schedule then?


Not necessarily, it is up to your taste. I was just letting you know that I have found it very piney and I don't like very piney- you may love it.
I have talked to other brewers about this hop and some hate it and some don't mind it but any that use it have found a sweet spot for its addition in their system. 1 guy says 30 min is good in his system, another likes it at 20 and I like it at 60. So it can depend on taste and your system. Have a go and find out but be prepared for some serious resin flavours if you use it all the way through.


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## TheWiggman (22/10/15)

Wowsers, I'm the opposite. I really enjoy the Pintail but have had one example which a stretch from the others.
I find it has quite a 'crisp', sulphatey mouthfeel to it which I'd almost describe as dry. A very smooth beer with just the right balance of hops. I'd be liberal with calcium sulphate to get the sulphate around the 150-200 mark. Otherwise I don't know how they get that character in the beer, and I wish I did.
Considering Cascade really suits my palate, and I don't mind Amarillo in moderation (otherwise as above I find it too piney) your hop schedule makes sense to me.


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## mxd (22/10/15)

I think Chinook and Galaxy are ones where people have different experiences, i've tasted a chinook only and it was great, for me the ones I make just aren't ?


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## fdsaasdf (22/10/15)

My house IPA is usually Chinook, Centennial and Cascade but I've done it as single hop for each... Chinook is my favourite. ~60IBU with hop additions at 30, 10, 0mins.

As for Pintail pale, it's a beautiful drop on tap at Karl Strauss brewhouse. Here in Australia I've had some bottles which were nice (around the time Dan Murphys first stocked them) but for the last couple of years those I've sampled seem generally quite dull due to age/mistreatment in the bottle. Like any hoppy beer it's not going to cellar well...


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## Yowie4815 (22/10/15)

Let us know how it goes Killer. I've been looking for a recipe for this for a while as I really enjoy this beer.


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## Killer Brew (23/10/15)

Sounds like some mixed views. Will run with my original recipe and report back on my success or otherwise!


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## razz (23/10/15)

I hope it's as nice as the original KB, I'm just enjoying one now. A nice drink.


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## Killer Brew (22/11/15)

So drinking this one now. Am a little disappointed. Tasted it a week after bottling and the american hops were really shining through. A week later and now fully carbed but the hop aroma has faded away. Still a drinkable beer but all i get is a nice level of bitterness and a strong malt background. It is also a lot darker than predicted in brewing software (photo below).

This has happened now with a few of my APA / IPA efforts and am not sure where it has gone wrong. Am thinking to try again but get rid of the crystal from my recipe which was as originally posted. I was extra careful not to oxygenate once fermentation commenced so don't think this is the issue. Any other thoughts on how to get the hops to pop?


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## fdsaasdf (22/11/15)

Sorry to hear you're not happy with the result. That looks considerably darker than the recipe suggests, are you sure it was 40L crystal in the bill and not something darker?

What was your dry hop schedule in the end? Did you do 50g of Amarillo for 5 days? What method do you use for dry hopping and at what temperature?

You could always dry hop it again in the keg


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## Killer Brew (22/11/15)

fdsaasdf said:


> Sorry to hear you're not happy with the result. That looks considerably darker than the recipe suggests, are you sure it was 40L crystal in the bill and not something darker?
> 
> What was your dry hop schedule in the end? Did you do 50g of Amarillo for 5 days? What method do you use for dry hopping and at what temperature?
> 
> You could always dry hop it again in the keg


Not sure if it was 40L Crystal as i had it invoiced as light crystal. Might have to look at that. I had some boil issues so only ended up getting 19L into fermenter. As a result the dry hop was scaled back to 40g after 5 days thrown straight into fermenter with gentle stir, held for a further 5 days at 22 degrees before crashing. Unfortunately as i bottle i cant dry hop in the keg.


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## fdsaasdf (22/11/15)

I would certainly be looking at the grain bill but you'll also have a darker beer if you've not made the intended liquid volume...

I've never experienced hop aroma dying off in the space of a week - if anything I've noticed less hop aroma before a beer is fully carbonated... Unless you wanted to experiment with a hop shot or the like then I guess chalk it up as a drinkable experiment 

How long has it been in the bottle for? is it fully carbonated?


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## Killer Brew (22/11/15)

fdsaasdf said:


> I would certainly be looking at the grain bill but you'll also have a darker beer if you've not made the intended liquid volume...
> 
> I've never experienced hop aroma dying off in the space of a week - if anything I've noticed less hop aroma before a beer is fully carbonated... Unless you wanted to experiment with a hop shot or the like then I guess chalk it up as a drinkable experiment
> 
> How long has it been in the bottle for? is it fully carbonated?


A little over 2 weeks now in bottle. The volume loss was post boil due to a blocked pump so don't think this will have impacted colour?


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## fdsaasdf (22/11/15)

Killer Brew said:


> The volume loss was post boil due to a blocked pump so don't think this will have impacted colour?


Ok, sorry I misunderstood what you meant there. Doesn't sound like that is relevant to your flavour issue...


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## indica86 (22/11/15)

Killer Brew said:


> A little over 2 weeks now in bottle.


I find 4 weeks or so is where the hop aroma and flavour really shines.


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## Killer Brew (22/11/15)

indica86 said:


> I find 4 weeks or so is where the hop aroma and flavour really shines.


Interesting. Will wait and see if it comes back. Not confident though as it seems to have totally dropped out.


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## barls (22/11/15)

personally your chasing the wrong hops
chinook could be the bittering but the flavour and aroma are motueka.
from the dans website.


> San Diego. The mid 1980s. Chris Cramer and Matt Rattner decided to begin producing true American craft beer. The inspiration behind the naming of the Pintail Pale Ale was the endless cavalcade of Pintails heading to the beach to be ridden on the big waves of summer. The board provided excellent balance on the big waves, just like this Pale Ale is the perfect balance in hops. New Zealand Motueka hops are blended with American Cascade hops to provide a spicy, crisp and dry American Pale Ale with a delicious mouthfeel and superb length of flavour.


personally id use cascade for littering and a mix of cascade and motueka for flavour and aroma.


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## Mikeyr (22/11/15)

Does look a little dark. I love the Strauss beers, although prefer tower 10 to pintail. The red trolley ale is a cracker too.

Ive been hunting "piney", more resin the better. Im using Simcoe and Chinook in much the same way as you're doing. Lots of small additions often.

Bit of wheat and light crystal gives a good colour and nice fluffy head. 

Found that adding some calcium helps hold the hop aroma. 

You're on a good path..... more tweaks i see (damn I'm channeling yoda again ....)


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## Mikeyr (22/11/15)

Barls......you mean I've been wasting all my homelands dodgy saaz on pilsners ...... (actually bloody nice pils thanks to a recipe inspiration on the forum!)


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## Blind Dog (23/11/15)

barls said:


> personally your chasing the wrong hops
> chinook could be the bittering but the flavour and aroma are motueka.
> from the dans website.
> 
> personally id use cascade for littering and a mix of cascade and motueka for flavour and aroma.


I'm still convinced that's what I read on the Strauss website and on a couple of US forums a while back, but it doesn't agree with the info currently on the Strauss website, which now lists the hops KB used


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## Killer Brew (23/11/15)

Yep. Got my hops from their website. Might have their quantities and use completely wrong though.

STATS:
ABV: 5.3% 
Color: 15 SRM 
Bitterness: 47 IBU 
Availability: 24/7/365, Kegs, six-packs, and 22oz
TASTING NOTES:
Style: American Pale Ale
Malt: Pale 2-Row, Caramel 60
Hops: Cascade, Chinook and Dry Hopped with Amarillo


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