# Stupid Mistake With My Mead



## Chookers (23/10/10)

Well Im no expert or even close when it comes to homebrewing.. I just start dabling with mead. But I did something really stupid, I was tired and it was late. I put my hot honey mixture in my 1 Gallon glass demijon and fitted the airlock with a bleach solution.. I know I should not have done this.. I got up this morning and of course some of the solution had gotten sucked in..

My question is: Should I thow the lot away.. or will the bleach solution in the mead mix eventually evaporate leaving a safe drink behind.

Any help on this matter would be very much appreciated... I really dont want to waste it, I think I had been on a good one.


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## newguy (23/10/10)

Pretty much every municipal water authority chlorinates the water so unless it was pure bleach I think you'll be okay. Meads usually take a long time to finish anyway so that gives you time for it to dissipate. I wouldn't worry about it too much.


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## Chookers (23/10/10)

newguy said:


> Pretty much every municipal water authority chlorinates the water so unless it was pure bleach I think you'll be okay. Meads usually take a long time to finish anyway so that gives you time for it to dissipate. I wouldn't worry about it too much.




Thanks for that.. it was that aldi brand bleach..

On the note of it taking a long time.. I once made a mead one year and years later found it still sweet (too sweet infact) I added 1/3rd more water with some yeast nutrients and some EC-118.. and it made a fantastic spritzy semi-dry drink.. it was lovely.. since then I have been unsucessful in recreating it.. very sad.

So is there such a thing as a fast track mead.. Im not the most patient person in the world.

Thanks for you reply


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## Lecterfan (23/10/10)

Gday, I have a mate who brews strange fruit wines and meads etc almost exclusively. He sometimes takes up to 18 moths before deciding that it is "done". Sorry to dissappoint. I have a friend who racked a mead after 2 months, bottled it after 4 and the bottles are so friggin cloudy that it is off putting.

My current mead is about 4 months in the first demijohn, basically reached it's fg but still bubbling on warm days and is as cloudy as the day I pitched the yeast. I got some good advice on this board, and subsequently from my friend who assured me just to leave it alone. It sits at my feet at the computer table like a patient lap dog.

If you want a quick mead then you best put up with the flavour from the ones available at Dans. :icon_cheers: 

Personally I'm sticking with beers and pitching slurry into fruit juice for my girlfriend.

I'm also not sure I'd worry about a few mls of bleach into a 4-5 L batch, but then I'm no authority on the topic.

I started using pure spirit (%40) from a mates still ages ago and have contiued that practice in any airlocks that I'm using...a tip I heard ages ago on the grumpys forum, not sure who from.

Good luck.


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## Chookers (24/10/10)

Lecterfan said:


> Gday, I have a mate who brews strange fruit wines and meads etc almost exclusively. He sometimes takes up to 18 moths before deciding that it is "done". Sorry to dissappoint. I have a friend who racked a mead after 2 months, bottled it after 4 and the bottles are so friggin cloudy that it is off putting.
> 
> My current mead is about 4 months in the first demijohn, basically reached it's fg but still bubbling on warm days and is as cloudy as the day I pitched the yeast. I got some good advice on this board, and subsequently from my friend who assured me just to leave it alone. It sits at my feet at the computer table like a patient lap dog.
> 
> ...


Lecterfan,
Thats a great idea using spirits in the airlock.. I will do that from now on :beerbang: .. I dont mind if some of that falls in..
I used to use the sodium metabisulfide solution, but I was very allergic to the fumes, it was putting me off trying to brew, then I read diluted bleach was a good substitute and start using that to sanitise everything and use in the airlock.

Thanks for the great advice


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## manticle (24/10/10)

Just cover the airlock with glad wrap and a rubber band. That's what I do for anything ageing in glass.

I've heard (not sure though) that spirits can attract vinegar flies.


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## SuiCIDER (24/10/10)

I use cheap vodka (the stuff that tastes like engine cleaner) for my airlocks. No flies, nothing. And when it gets sucked down, I just get a higher ABV!


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## Airgead (24/10/10)

SuiCIDER said:


> I use cheap vodka (the stuff that tastes like engine cleaner) for my airlocks. No flies, nothing. And when it gets sucked down, I just get a higher ABV!



Higher ABV and a mead that tastes like engine cleaner...

Just plain old water in mine. Or iodphor solution if I have some lying around from brewing. You only need to worry about it getting sucked in if the stuff in the fermenter is hot and cooling down or when moving them around. Iodophor is OK in the brew if it accidentally get sucked in. It just sublimates back out again. Water does just fine at keeping bugs out. All it needs to do is prevent direct air exchange and stop stuff falling into your brew through an open top. Once fermentation has well and truly stopped and I don't need to worry about pressure build up I just use a rubber bung. Or gladwrap.

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (24/10/10)

Do you think if I used grape concentrate (I have reisling grape concentrate at hand) with honey, I could make a cheats mead that would be ready to drink in a few months.. or sooner than actual mead anyway..


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## Airgead (24/10/10)

Chookers said:


> Do you think if I used grape concentrate (I have reisling grape concentrate at hand) with honey, I could make a cheats mead that would be ready to drink in a few months.. or sooner than actual mead anyway..



Grape and honey is known as a Pyment. They are very nice.

Sadly though, they still need a fairly long aging time. 6-12 months. Mead really does require patience.

The fastest things to mature are things like melomels with lots of fruit in them. They are often drinkable after 3 months or so. They are much better after 6-12 months though.

The fastest type of mead to mature are braggots. If you use only 15-20% honey in a fairly light style of beer you will have something that is good after only a few weeks. The more honey you use the longer it takes to age.

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (24/10/10)

Airgead said:


> Grape and honey is known as a Pyment. They are very nice.
> 
> Sadly though, they still need a fairly long aging time. 6-12 months. Mead really does require patience.
> 
> ...



Thanks Airgead
Yes I have been looking at doing a Braggot, I have a can of Spicy Ghost Wheat Beer lying around, I wonder if I could make Braggot out of it. Do you have a good recipe for Pyment. Something semi-dry.. we dont like too sweet or too dry.. I need to use my grape concentrate (I dont know if it has a used by date, but I've had it for awhile now)


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## newguy (25/10/10)

Chookers said:


> So is there such a thing as a fast track mead.. Im not the most patient person in the world.



Actually there is. Off the top of my head I can't remember the guy's name, but he's won the american homebrewer's association (AHA) meadmaker of the year several times. His technique is as follows:

- Instead of adding all the yeast nutrient/energiser to the honey at the start, only add 1/8th of this amount.
- Every 12h after that, add another 1/8th until you've added 8/8ths (4 days).

The meads fed in this fashion finish in 2-3 months. I tried one like this and it did finish in 2 months. The one I have on the go now was done in the traditional manner (all nutrients up front) and it's been 18 months and it's still not done. I wanted to feed it 2x per day as above but I was going to be away and couldn't manage it.


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## Airgead (25/10/10)

newguy said:


> Actually there is. Off the top of my head I can't remember the guy's name, but he's won the american homebrewer's association (AHA) meadmaker of the year several times. His technique is as follows:
> 
> - Instead of adding all the yeast nutrient/energiser to the honey at the start, only add 1/8th of this amount.
> - Every 12h after that, add another 1/8th until you've added 8/8ths (4 days).
> ...



Ahhh... you want to talk to Brewer Pete about that. He's a big fan of that method. The guy's name is Ken Schwarber or something like that.

From what I can gather the method accelerates the fermentation and appears to accelerate the aging as well. I have some serious concerns about its impact on long term stability. I think it is a competition brewing method - get something drinkable quickly for competition and not worry about how it tastes a week after that.

I am doing some side by side tests to see what the long term impact is. I'll report back later...

Cheers
Dave


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## The_Duck (25/10/10)

I believe you may be referring to Ken Schramm who wrote "_The Complete Meadmaker_". A worthy addition to any mead makers library.

My copy came from www.thebookdepository.co.uk for about $23 shipped to Oz. I highly recommend it.

Recipes for various meads, pyments, cysers, braggot, melomels etc

I have been able to do a crystal clear mead in about 6 weeks that tasted awesome. I used a honey called "Tropical Fusion" that I picked up in Cairns while on holiday and a Lalvin DV-10 yeast from my LHBS. Could not believe how quickly it cleared without any interference or additives.

Last night I put down another batch using leatherwood honey and the same yeast. Will see if it is the honey variety or yeast that makes the difference.

(1 Gallon batch)

Recipe: "Champagne" mead

1Kg Varietal honey 
3.5 L Boiled water
1/2 tsp yeast nutrient
2g Lalvin DV-10 yeast


Boil the water, then et it cool a little.
Add the honey.
Rinse the jar/s with more boiling water (from a kettle) to get remaining honey out

Add to 1 Gallon Demijohn (sterilised)

Top up Demijohn to the shoulders. Add airlock and a SMALL amount of water to seal.
Allow to cool in a sink of water etc and when down to ~35c pitch yeast.


Duck


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## Airgead (25/10/10)

The_Duck said:


> I believe you may be referring to Ken Schramm who wrote "_The Complete Meadmaker_". A worthy addition to any mead makers library.



That's the one.

Interested to know how that mead held up after a few months/years.

Cheers
Dave


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## The_Duck (25/10/10)

Airgead said:


> That's the one.
> 
> Interested to know how that mead held up after a few months/years.
> 
> ...




With such a small volume it may not last year/s. The batch I made with "Tropical Fusion" is all gone I think (need to check the cupboard for a stray bottle !)

Not sure how a champagne style leatherwood will come out. I had a sample during the week from one of my club members of a 2 1/2 year old sweet leatherwood mead that was delicious.

Best thing is, with small batches there is low $ at risk if the batch turns out poorly.

Duck


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## Chookers (25/10/10)

newguy said:


> Actually there is. Off the top of my head I can't remember the guy's name, but he's won the american homebrewer's association (AHA) meadmaker of the year several times. His technique is as follows:
> 
> - Instead of adding all the yeast nutrient/energiser to the honey at the start, only add 1/8th of this amount.
> - Every 12h after that, add another 1/8th until you've added 8/8ths (4 days).
> ...




Sounds good newguy, now all I gotta do is buy some nutrients, I had some that went all clumpy and I threw it away, It smelled like a cup-a-soup.. I wonder if vegimite would work in place of nutrients. I need more 5L Demijohns. I will definately be trying this. :icon_cheers:


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## Chookers (25/10/10)

The_Duck said:


> I believe you may be referring to Ken Schramm who wrote "_The Complete Meadmaker_". A worthy addition to any mead makers library.
> 
> My copy came from www.thebookdepository.co.uk for about $23 shipped to Oz. I highly recommend it.
> 
> ...



Thanks Duck,
I have just printed off that recipe will try it very soon, all I got for honey is Capilano in 1.5kg bucket..(hasnt got much flavour) I been looking for someone who can supply honey in my area southern suburbs of sydney, they're are as rare as hens teeth though.


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## Chookers (25/10/10)

On a sepparate note: does anyone know of a place to get 5Ltr Glass bottles to use as Demijohns.. I found a place that sells the type of bottles Im after but you have to buy at least one pallet and thats 108 bottles.. I little too many for me... I think they called them Olive Oil bottles.


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## The_Duck (25/10/10)

I bought my demijohns at my LHBS in Boronia Vic. From memory about $18-$20 each. If you're stuck after searching Sydney, PM me and I could get you some and freight up if necessary.

Can't imagine using clear glass for olive oil :blink: Sunlight on the oil turns it rancid in a very short time, which is why it is usually in a green or brown bottle.

I guess it is similar to beer in that regard.


Duck


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## Chookers (25/10/10)

The_Duck said:


> I bought my demijohns at my LHBS in Boronia Vic. From memory about $18-$20 each. If you're stuck after searching Sydney, PM me and I could get you some and freight up if necessary.
> 
> Can't imagine using clear glass for olive oil :blink: Sunlight on the oil turns it rancid in a very short time, which is why it is usually in a green or brown bottle.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the offer Duck, I'll search my LHBS's see what they have first.. 

Yeh Olive Oil Bottles from Plasdene 
http://www.plasdene.com.au/category/produc...IM-5LTR-1111-HF

I thought the same thing about the sunlight.. The demijohn Im using is very old and its made of brown glass, but I have also got it rapped up in a towel to stop the sunlight (I dont know if its necessary at this stage)..


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## The_Duck (25/10/10)

Mine are clear glass.

I've had no issues with mead in indirect sunlight.

Maybe it is just in beer and olive oil ?


Duck


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## Airgead (25/10/10)

The_Duck said:


> Mine are clear glass.
> 
> I've had no issues with mead in indirect sunlight.
> 
> ...



Mead should be fine in clear glass. Its the hops in beer that go bad with light exposure and its the oils in olive oil. Mead has neither. Unless you made a hopped mead (which is very nice btw...)

Cheers
Dave

Edit: lets at least attempt to spell things correctly.


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## Chookers (25/10/10)

Could paint them green :lol: 

I just got info from Plasdene. Apparently their smallest order is 8 bottles (or $100 value). It works out to $14.38 per bottle if you go there to pickup your order.


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## Chookers (25/10/10)

Chookers said:


> Could paint them green :lol:
> 
> I just got info from Plasdene. Apparently their smallest order is 8 bottles (or $100 value). It works out to $14.38 per bottle if you go there to pickup your order.




I have Lalvin EC-1118 yeast but I decided to use Bread Yeast (I know it has a low tolerance to alcohol) but its what I used the very first time I made mead, which coincidentally was the only time it tasted good. Any thoghts on using bread yeast???


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## Airgead (26/10/10)

Chookers said:


> I have Lalvin EC-1118 yeast but I decided to use Bread Yeast (I know it has a low tolerance to alcohol) but its what I used the very first time I made mead, which coincidentally was the only time it tasted good. Any thoghts on using bread yeast???



Other than don't?

As far as I am concerned bread yeast is a lottery. It may work one time but you have no idea what strain you just used or whether the next packet of bread yeast you open (even from the same manufacturer) will be the same.

At a couple of bucks a pack for dried wine yeast, go with a known quantity.

I know Brewer Pete will disagree.

The EC-1118 will leave you very dry. There are other years around that will leave things a bit sweeter. I have a couple of good strains for mead. If you shoot me a PM I might be able to set you up with some.

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (26/10/10)

Airgead said:


> Other than don't?
> 
> As far as I am concerned bread yeast is a lottery. It may work one time but you have no idea what strain you just used or whether the next packet of bread yeast you open (even from the same manufacturer) will be the same.
> 
> ...




Ermm... its too late, but its not doing much anyway. Have I just ruined my Mead. I may have invented a new recipe for Bleach flavoured yeast beverage.. :icon_vomit:


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## The_Duck (26/10/10)

I have heard of people using the Red Star yeast... I have a couple of packs of Red Star Cotes De Blancs at home for experimentation.

I have used both the top 2 below but cannot find a supplier for the D47 here in Oz.

I'd like to get my hands on some D47 to do another braggot at some stage.

*Lalvin DV10 : This is "the original Champagne isolate," according to Lallemand, known in other contexts as Epernay. Its fermentation kinetics are strong over a wide temperature range (50-96 F) with relatively low oxygen and nitrogen demands. It is one of the most widely used strains in Champagne and is known for clean fermentations that respect varietal character while avoiding bitter sensory contributions associated with many other strains. It is highly recomended for both premium white and red varietals, mead and cider production, and many fruit, berry, vegetable, and herb wines. It is a fast fermenter with an 18% alcohol tolerance, is famous for its ability to ferment under stressful conditions of low pH, high total SO[size=-1]2[/size], and is low foaming with low volatile acid production.*

*Lalvin EC-1118 (Prise de Mousse) : This is the original, steady, low foamer, excellent for barrel fermentation or for working on heavy suspended pulps. It is one of the most popular wine yeasts in the world. It ferments well at low temperatures, flocculates well, and produces very compact lees. It is good for Champagne bases, secondary (bottle) fermentations, restarting stuck fermentations, and for late harvest grapes. It is also the yeast of choice for apple, crabapple, cranberry, hawthorn, and cherry wines. It has excellent organoleptic properties and should be in every vinter's refrigerator. Alcohol toxicity is 18% and it ferments relatively fast. It tolerates temperatures from 39-95 F. It is not, however, tolerant of concurrent malolactic fermentation.

Lalvin ICV-D47 (Ctes-du-Rhne) : This is a low-foaming quick fermenter that settles well and forms compact lees at the end of fermentation, although when left on the lees, ripe spicy aromas with tropical and citrus notes develop. This strain tolerates fermentation temperatures ranging from 50 to 86 F. and enhances mouth feel due to complex carbohydrates and high polysaccharide production. Malolactic fermentation proceeds well in wine made with ICV-D47. This strain is recommended for making wines from white varieties such as Chardonnay and for ros style wines. It is ideal for persimmon, peach, nectarine, paw-paw, and mango, as well as aromatic wines such as rose petal, elderflower, anise and woodruff. It is also an excellent choice for producing mead if supplemented with yeast nutrients, especially usable nitrogen. Its alcohol ceiling is 14%.


*


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## Airgead (26/10/10)

You can get D47 here but its only available in 1kg packs from wine suppliers. A bunch of us did a bulk buy a while back and split a kilo of a few strains.

I have - 

D47,
DV10
S101
EC1118
71B

I'm doing a side by side fermentation at the moment with D47 and 71B.

The bread yeast mead may or may not work. As I said its a lottery. Taste and see...

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (27/10/10)

I had licorice growing all over my garden, does anyone know if it can be used in homebrews, or how to use it. I know its the root you use, they're all dried up now cause we pulled them all out.. its a weed and its already comming back.


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## Chookers (27/10/10)

Anyone know of a good supplier of Honey in Sydney.. there used to be someone who had a stall at the Pyrmont Growers Market, but I cant find them anymore.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Airgead (27/10/10)

Chookers said:


> Anyone know of a good supplier of Honey in Sydney.. there used to be someone who had a stall at the Pyrmont Growers Market, but I cant find them anymore.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



The thing I have found with honey sup0pliers is that they are all, without exception, terrible at things like remembering to bring the stuff you ordered or returning phone calls or answering emails.

I used to have a supplier but he was just too unreliable. I'd arrange a time and place to meet. I'd show up with the cash. He wouldn't come. I'd ring and his missus would tell me he was in a completely different city. And that he'd sold all his stock anyway. And he'd not had whatever it was he had promised me for the last few years anyway. Useless.

There's a guy I am dealing with now who goes to the Thornleigh markets. He's better but it was still 6 months between me ordering a bucket and him remembering to deliver it to me.

I have a contact now at Beechworth who are one of the big producers. Its not supporting small, local growers or anything but I'm hoping I can get some level f reliable service.

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (28/10/10)

Anyone know if Costco sells honey???


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## The_Duck (28/10/10)

Chookers said:


> Anyone know if Costco sells honey???




I'll look when I go there this weekend 

All else fails... if you are in Melbourne I have a reliable supplier but he has a limited range.

Volumes from 500 g -> 200 KG drums and many in between.

Regards


Duck


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## Chookers (28/10/10)

The_Duck said:


> I'll look when I go there this weekend
> 
> All else fails... if you are in Melbourne I have a reliable supplier but he has a limited range.
> 
> ...



Thanks Duck, I might look into getting a Costco membership, if its worth my while.. $55 per year

Im in Sydney  .. Wholesalers in my area wont deal with the public, they would if I had a business or is it an ABN, one of those. 

Also can anyone tell me, when would be a good time to bottle, if I want a semi dry sparkling result. My O.G was 1060.. its been slowly fermenting for a week now.


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## Chookers (28/10/10)

So for best yeast strain would you all agree its D47, because I may order some from ibrew, but it would be 500gm.

I just ordered some yeast today from esbeer.com.au, they were:

Vitners Harvest Mead/Cider SN9
Safbrew T-58
B/Craft Cider Yeast

Anyone used these and if so whats your opinions of them.. I may try my hand at cider or Perry.. or other fruit wines.

Whats a good fruit at the moment... would my juice extractor be useful in making wine?? I've been putting carrots and celery through it for years.


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## Chookers (1/11/10)

The_Duck said:


> I have heard of people using the Red Star yeast... I have a couple of packs of Red Star Cotes De Blancs at home for experimentation.
> 
> I have used both the top 2 below but cannot find a supplier for the D47 here in Oz.
> 
> ...




Hey Duck,
The HomeBrew Shop has D-47.. check it out $2.20 http://www.uq.net.au/homebrew/pricelist3.htm

incase you still interested.


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## Chookers (26/11/10)

I just did the second racking of my mead, and it has started to make bubbles in the airlock again about 1 every 30 seconds, but there is no sign of fermentation, its crystal clear. Is this what they call malolactic fermentation, and should I have bottled it, rather than racking it to a clean demijohn???


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## Airgead (26/11/10)

Chookers said:


> I just did the second racking of my mead, and it has started to make bubbles in the airlock again about 1 every 30 seconds, but there is no sign of fermentation, its crystal clear. Is this what they call malolactic fermentation, and should I have bottled it, rather than racking it to a clean demijohn???



Its probably just gas coming out of solution. Its not likely to be maleolactic. It would still be cloudy is it was.

I usually bottle as soon as they clear with only 1 racking (2 if I'm using a lot of fruit) as I don't use any sodium met (missus is allergic) so they oxidise very easily.

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (26/11/10)

It doesnt taste that good, I have orderd French Oak Chips medium toasted as they were recommended for wines, the American Oak was recommended for whisky and other spirits.

My O.G was 1.060 and F.G 1.000, I used 1.5kg honey to 4-4.5Ltr of Water, it does not have alot of taste at the moment.. will this improve with age, or addition of the oak chips..???   

Im not happy JAN. :angry:


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## Airgead (26/11/10)

Chookers said:


> It doesnt taste that good, I have orderd French Oak Chips medium toasted as they were recommended for wines, the American Oak was recommended for whisky and other spirits.
> 
> My O.G was 1.060 and F.G 1.000, I used 1.5kg honey to 4-4.5Ltr of Water, it does not have alot of taste at the moment.. will this improve with age, or addition of the oak chips..???
> 
> Im not happy JAN. :angry:



Patience grasshopper... you must learn patience...

Mead does need aging. It will probably improve with age.

You should also adjust the acid... do you have an acid test kit? Honey is very low in acids so to get a balanced wine you should adjust with citric or tartaric. I usually adjust to a little under what is recommended for a white wine of the appropriate finishing gravity. Its amazing how much of a diference it makes.

Cheers
Dave


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## Chookers (26/11/10)

Airgead said:


> Patience grasshopper... you must learn patience...
> 
> Mead does need aging. It will probably improve with age.
> 
> ...




I don't have an acid test kit for wine, I have an aquarium pH kit. I put lemon in the mead initially. I cant remember how much, I'll have to find my recipe.


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## Airgead (26/11/10)

Chookers said:


> I don't have an acid test kit for wine, I have an aquarium pH kit. I put lemon in the mead initially. I cant remember how much, I'll have to find my recipe.



PH and total acidity are two different things....

I'd definitely recommend an acid test kit. Lemon will add citric acid but how much is a little variable. A test kit will let you get it exactly right.

Cheers
Dave


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