# James Sqire Porter Clone? Hops, Grains %'s Etc?



## grinder (2/8/07)

Hey guys.
I am a big fan of the James Squire Porter and have been trying to clone this one for a while.
My recent attempts have been unsuccessful so i was wondering if there is anyone out there who can give me a reasonably accurate recipe to clone this brew?
cheers
Grinder


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## DJR (2/8/07)

Well.. according to them (you can ask them as well, they are quite happy to give out pointers on their recipes), it's willamette finishing hops, POR bittering hops, 10% cane sugar, pale malt base with some munich (AFAIK), crystal and chocolate malt

Fermented with Toohey's proprietary century-old ale yeast, but i'm sure that US56 or even old Mauri 514 would do the job about 15-16C (all MSB ales are fermented quite cool)


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (2/8/07)

I could give you the exact recipe, when it was a lager rather than an ale, but I wont.

The ale strain they use is very poorly attenuative, so if you're using something agressive like US05, don't bother with any sugar. Another key to this beer is the dry, dusty, pencil lead finish from roasted wheat malt.


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## grinder (3/8/07)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> I could give you the exact recipe, when it was a lager rather than an ale, but I wont.
> 
> The ale strain they use is very poorly attenuative, so if you're using something agressive like US05, don't bother with any sugar. Another key to this beer is the dry, dusty, pencil lead finish from roasted wheat malt.



Why won't you give me the exact recipe?


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## grinder (3/8/07)

Anybody???


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## ausdb (3/8/07)

grinder said:


> Why won't you give me the exact recipe?



Umm, maybe because of "Commercial confidentiality or maybe because it's Lion Nathans Intellectual property h34r: " Randall knows a lot about JS beers but obviously can't just spill his guts outright. 

You can take this as a flame or however you like but don't be lazy and expect to get everything on a plate half of the challenge of craft/home brewing is trying to reverse engineer or recreate a beer you really like (in my case and few others its Timothy Taylors Landlord Pale Ale). So do some reading and searching on porter recipes and also Randall (if you want some insight on his background). Play around with some recipe ideas and then post them here and I am sure you will get some feedback from the forum on whether you are in the right direction or not, you have already been given a few hints. Then brew your chosen recipe and see how it tastes, compare it to the real thing and then post your comments and results and people are going to give you some more feedback on how to change it if there are things you did or didn't like and you will also pick up things that you can do different on the next batch.

Have a look at this recent thread for some tips on a good porter recipe but maybe not quite the JS porter
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=16803&hl=

[deep & meaningful mode]
"Sometimes the journey is more fulfilling than reaching the destination"
[/deep & meaningful mode]

Cheers


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## grinder (3/8/07)

ausdb said:


> Umm, maybe because of "Commercial confidentiality or maybe because it's Lion Nathans Intellectual property h34r: "
> Randall knows a lot about JS beers but obviously can't just spill his guts outright. Don't be lazy and expect to get everything on a plate so do some reading and searching on porter recipes and also Randall (if you want some insight on his background). Play around with some recipe ideas and then post them here and I am sure you will get some feedback from the forum on whether you are in the right direction or not. You have already been given a few hints.
> 
> Have a look at this recent thread for some tips on a good porter recipe but maybe not quite the JS porter
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=16803&hl=


Thanks for your advise mate But I am actually after a recipe. If you havn't got one don't reply.
By the way, I have been researching this for quite some time and have looked at the above mentioned thread. 
Cheers


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## Bobby (3/8/07)

why do you need a recipe? there ARE dozens of good recipes for porters on this site, and a hell of alot of info on the style.
Yet you require the exact recipe JS?


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## grinder (3/8/07)

Bobby said:


> why do you need a recipe? there ARE dozens of good recipes for porters on this site, and a hell of alot of info on the style.
> Yet you require the exact recipe JS?


I have made quite a few porters over my brewing years but they have never quite been what I am looking for. Obviously what I am looking for is a JS porter. I thought, why not just come straight out and ask for it? hense this post. However, it doesn't seem like anyone has got a clone recipe on this forum so I guess I will just have to keep trying.
Cheers


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## ausdb (3/8/07)

grinder said:


> Thanks for your advise mate But I am actually after a recipe. If you havn't got one don't reply.
> By the way, I have been researching this for quite some time and have looked at the above mentioned thread.
> Cheers



Obviously you took it the wrong way such is life, but the reality of the situation is that apart from you sitting in their brewhouse one day watching a batch being made and then trying to work how much of this or that then NO-ONE is going to give you the exact recipe on an open forum like this.

But if you have researched this for quite some time then you should be able to at least post an attempt at a recipe and I am sure you will get some help from there. 

End of 'advise'


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## Fents (3/8/07)

Bobby said:


> why do you need a recipe? there ARE dozens of good recipes for porters on this site, and a hell of alot of info on the style.
> Yet you require the exact recipe JS?



what you've never had a really really nice commercial beer before and gone gee thats really bloody nice i'd like to try and make that? Grinder said he was intrested in a certain type of porter...a james squire porter, not somthing BJCP says is a style of porter or gives a guide, he simply asked if anyone maybe knew what exactly made a james squire porter...

instead two people give him grief saying do research blah blah blah when he cleraly stated he's tried and tried again at making this type of beer. winner.

Grinder as someone said up there somehwere i would e-mail james squire its the best way, i've cloned a red hill brewery golden ale and the crackenback pale ale and both brewerys are happy to help if your nice. god forbid anyone post here and ask for recipe help


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## Goat (3/8/07)

maybe you could try different angle, grinder  

how about posting your best attempt (recipe) and saying what you did/didn't like about it ?


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (3/8/07)

Goat said:


> maybe you could try different angle, grinder


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## Tony (3/8/07)

my 2c worth.

JS porter isnt as good as they get. 

Brew a basic nice porter and fillow some of the guidelines above.

I would think its got some roast malt or roast wheat in it for sure..... its been a year or so since i had one as i didnt like it much. It was too thin a bit acrid from memory.

Try using base of ale malt, light ale malt tlike IMC or JW for the thinish character. 
5% crystal and some dark malts

have a go at this: only my suggestion

cheers

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 4.90
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.37
Anticipated EBC: 50.3
Anticipated IBU: 31.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
87.8 4.30 kg. IMC Ale Malt Australia 1.038 4
6.1 0.30 kg. JWM Crystal 140 Australia 1.035 145
4.1 0.20 kg. JWM Chocolate Malt Australia 1.032 750
2.0 0.10 kg. JWM Roasted Wheat Australia 1.032 1300

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
22.00 g. Pride of Ringwood Pellet 10.20 27.5 60 min.
20.00 g. Willamette Pellet 4.30 3.8 10 min.


Yeast
-----

brew with nice english ale yeast....... 1318, 1275 SO-4


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## grinder (3/8/07)

Tony said:


> my 2c worth.
> 
> JS porter isnt as good as they get.
> 
> ...



Good on ya Tony! That's more like it. That looks the goods. Will give it a go
Thanks alot mate
Grinder


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## ausdb (3/8/07)

Fents said:


> Instead two people give him grief saying do research blah blah blah when he cleraly stated he's tried and tried again at making this type of beer. winner.



It's the way you ask the question that helps, Grinder if you have tried a few times before thats fantastic so why not post some of the recipes you have used before so people can see how you have been trying to achieve your goal?

Research who randall the enamel animal is and then you will realise the answer to your question *"Why won't you give me the exact recipe?"* Because the real recipe would probably differ from a home brewed version as already alluded to and it's not his just give out. But I am sure you will get some more help and feedback on how to get a beer that's heading in the right direction.

Peace


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## johnno (4/8/07)

> Research who randall the enamel animal is and then you will realise the answer to your question "Why won't you give me the exact recipe?" Because the real recipe would probably differ from a home brewed version as already alluded to and it's not his just give out.



Well if anyone here does work for/with them maybe someone can explain what this shit mettalic/blood aftertaste is in their beers lately.

Earlier this year I purchased 2 seperate 6 packs of the Porter within a couple of weeks of each other from the same shop. I kept tasting this weird aftertaste mentioned above. I just thought it may have been that particular batch and let it go at that.

Last weekend I purchased a 6 pack of their IPA and found it had the same aftertaste albeit not as strong.

cheers
johnno


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## grinder (4/8/07)

ausdb said:


> It's the way you ask the question that helps, Grinder if you have tried a few times before thats fantastic so why not post some of the recipes you have used before so people can see how you have been trying to achieve your goal?
> 
> Research who randall the enamel animal is and then you will realise the answer to your question *"Why won't you give me the exact recipe?"* Because the real recipe would probably differ from a home brewed version as already alluded to and it's not his just give out. But I am sure you will get some more help and feedback on how to get a beer that's heading in the right direction.
> 
> Peace


If Randall does in fact know the exact recipes to the JS beers, Why would you get on this home brew forum and brag about it, then turn around and say "not telling". A bit of a w..k..r I think.


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (4/8/07)

No, not bragging. Just trying to make the point that if I was to offer some sort of guidance, it would not be purely speculative. It did come across as a bit wankerish, you're right.

I have all of the JS recipes on file; I wrote some of them. Not sure why I've kept them to be honest as they're not anything special. Not particularly interested these days in brewing high-gravity, high adjunct beers with cheap malts and 'process' yeasts. I wouldn't win trophies if I did. 

Not sure if I would actually get myself in legal hot water by posting that sort of stuff, but needless to say, I wouldn't do so as I respect their intellectual property and it would be considered poor form in brewing circles and certainly disrespectful of Chuck and the boys at MSB.

I'm also of the opinion of 'recipe-shmecipe'. The awesome Pelican brewery in Pacific City, Oregon, details on its web site exactly how their beers are made. Their feeling is one of 'good luck, try to brew as well as we do'. That's their approach and I kind of like it. Others are a lot more sensitive and that's fine too.

I know from experience that if I brew my beers in another brewhouse, identical recipe, the beer will come out differently. My $0.02 worth would be this: Have a go, have a look at the result and evolve your beer from there. "Pretty good, needs a bit more roast character and some fattening up in the mid-palate". Perhaps. Make your changes, do it again, have another look. Keep doing that until you're happy. Like Ausdb said, the satisfaction comes from the development. The journey. Tony's recipe would be a very good starting point.


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (4/8/07)

Oh, forgot to say, this is a great site and a very valuable resource for craft guys like me. You guys are the inovators.


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## pbrosnan (4/8/07)

Boy, this thread was 99% wasted time and typing. Here's a Porter I brewed about 12 months ago. I'm still drinking it so it's had a longish maturation time. Went a bit OTT on the dark malts ... 

Brew 60

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

12-B Porter, Robust Porter

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.065
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 60
Min Clr: 22 Max Clr: 42 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.45
Anticipated OG: 1.059 Plato: 14.53
Anticipated SRM: 36.9
Anticipated IBU: 51.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------
Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
82.6 4.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
9.2 0.50 kg. Crystal 75L Great Britian 1.034 75
4.6 0.25 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 475
1.8 0.10 kg. Hoepfner Black Malt Germany 1.035 609
1.8 0.10 kg. JWM Roast Barley Australia 1.036 711

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Nugget Plug 9.30 33.2 90 min.
25.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 5.00 15.7 45 min.
15.00 g. Cluster Plug 5.30 2.8 15 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1098 British Ale


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