# Style Of The Week 12/7/06 - Foreign Extra Stout



## Stuster (12/7/06)

With the cold winter nights here in the south what better than a warming dark ale, specifically a Foreign extra stout, 13C in the BJCP guidelines. 

An article from Brewing Techniques, here, will give you some background on the different stout categories.

So what grains do you use for FES? What do you think of stout malt? What other grains/adjuncts/sugars do you add? What yeast is best, the classic Irish yeast strain (WLP004/1084) or any other? Kits seem to work well for darker beers, so which ones are best for this style? Any fermentation tips? How long is it best to wait before drinking these? Has anybody used Brettanomyces for that authentic touch? As pointed out by Jayse, most Australian stouts will fit into this category, so what are your favourite commercial stouts?

Let's talk stout. :chug: 




> 13D. Foreign Extra Stout
> 
> Aroma: Roasted grain aromas moderate to high, and can have coffee, chocolate and/or lightly burnt notes. Fruitiness medium to high. Some versions may have a sweet aroma, or molasses, licorice, dried fruit, and/or vinous aromatics. Stronger versions can have the aroma of alcohol. Hop aroma low to none. Diacetyl low to none.
> 
> ...


----------



## Barry (12/7/06)

Good Day
I really like foreign stout. I have my stock recipe for ir at oz.craftbrewer.org/Recipes/
Called Old Dark.


----------



## Stuster (12/7/06)

Nice looking recipe, Barry. Do you find any difference when using the stout malt to using more standard pale malts? Do you use that malt for other dark beers as well?


----------



## Barry (12/7/06)

Good Day
Not really. Hard to get the stout malt now so I use Maris Otter which is even better in my opinion.


----------



## lou (12/7/06)

Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout 

Yum - am working on a clone :chug: 

lots of chocolate and coffee flavour and aromas with a nice fruity ester which compliments roast malts perfectly. Pretty much the only beer I want to drink in winter


most aussie stouts suck IMO - they have too much flavour hops added and taste thin and minty - Coopers stout suffers from this in particular - but Carbine Stout (XXXX stout) also sucks. 

Aussie guiness is flavourless and thin (surely not like the original) They changed the tooheys old recipie to make it thinner and less flavourful though really its a dark ale.

Sadly they don't even sell Sheaf in QLD - have to bring a case up with me on the plane on my regular trips down to sydney  

Love MO in my stouts - latest mash should be a ripper - the wort tasted good straight out of the boiler- seems almost a shame to le the yeasties have first munch.

lou


----------



## Stuster (12/7/06)

Southwark Old Stout. :chug: :super: 

I'm not sure that you could call that thin, Lou. :blink: Really full mouthfeel, hints of coffee, some alcohol present, rich. Any clones for this around? 

The recipe for a Sheaf clone would be great when you're happy with it as well.

MO is great IMO.


----------



## neonmeate (12/7/06)

Stuster said:


> Southwark Old Stout. :chug: :super: Any clones for this around?



i remember reading or hearing somewhere that they make this with a lager yeast. so it's more a baltic porter than a foreign stout but who cares.

lou i can't believe anybody would prefer sheaf to coopers stout but then i am always getting surprised by the fact that other people have different tastebuds not to mention different brains - scary thought. 

sheaf i do admire for its extreme crudeness. soysauce and vegemite and burnt toast and tar. at least it doesnt leave you looking for flavour. finesse on the other hand is not one of its strong points.

coopers stout used to be so much better back when it was 6.8% a few years ago. rich, oily, fruity, roasty, bitter. it's a shadow of its former self now.

when it comes to recipes i should say my last FES was a ripper but i can't take any credit for it as it is one of ray mills's recipes:
http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?v...3972&num=44
only i made it with coopers yeast so it does come out a bit like the old coopers stout that i miss (sigh sniff). also added some espresso to half the batch and that was tasty.


----------



## lou (12/7/06)

> soysauce and vegemite and burnt toast and tar



mmm -now we're talking my kinda stout :chug: 

lou


----------



## homebrewworld.com (12/7/06)

lou,
I cant agree with you more mate.
Sheaf IMO is top shelf in my book, and i have been driniking it for at least 10yrs .
I have tried most of the commercials in oz and they all lack flavour and as you say are thin eg. Cascade & Coopers Stout. 
Hate to say mate, but sheaf is at my local botlo cheap and plentyful, i think i am the only dude to ever buy it from the guy.
I think it has had the reputation in the past for being an 'old mans drink'. Fine by this 30 something yr old !

The day they drop Sheaf from production is the day i stop drinking megaswill totally !


----------



## PostModern (12/7/06)

homebrewworld.com said:


> I think it has had the reputation in the past for being an 'old mans drink'. Fine by this 30 something yr old !



Stout is the generational bridge, I reckon. Everyone has a favourite stout, from your granddad to your kids. My pop's favourite stout was Guiness with a spoonful of sugar and a raw egg in the pint glass. My favourite is Coopers Best Extra Stout, which fits this category exactly. 

I make a dead ringer for Coopers BES using a partial mash of ale malt, some (to lots) of Munich, 300g crystal, 200g choc and a 100g of roast barley. I make up gravity with the Coopers or ESB 1.7Kg stout kit and DME, dark and cane sugar. Target OG is about 1.064-1.066. I usually bitter the boil with about 12 IBU of either POR if I want a Coopers clone else the same bitterness of EKG, styrian goldings or fuggles at 20 mins. Yeast is recultured Coopers yeast. It makes a reliably tasty partial mash stout. I brewed an American variation today. Same gravity and IBU but hopped with Nugget and US-56 for yeast.


----------



## Tony (12/7/06)

what.......... coopers stout isnt 6.8% anymore 

I havnt bought it since i could make my own.

going to make a stout next but it wont be a real strong one.

More a dry type in a murphy kind of line. A bit of sweetness and creamy.

cheers


----------



## Darren (12/7/06)

Tony said:


> what.......... coopers stout isnt 6.8% anymore
> 
> I havnt bought it since i could make my own.
> 
> ...



Tony,

Good luck! You will probably need it to be "nitrogenated" rather than carbonated. Bubbles really remove the creaminess!!

Go the strong foreign extra stout and keep it for a year. Next winter you will be loving it.

cheers

Darren


----------



## peas_and_corn (12/7/06)

PostModern said:


> My pop's favourite stout was Guiness with a spoonful of sugar and a raw egg in the pint glass.



:blink: Haven't heard of that combination before!!

Coopers stout... not a big fan! A friend of mine recommended it to me and I bought a carton... the first six pack was easy to drink, but it got harder and harder as it went along... not a session beer, I must say! Now I can't touch the stuff...


----------



## normell (13/7/06)

peas_and_corn said:


> PostModern said:
> 
> 
> > My pop's favourite stout was Guiness with a spoonful of sugar and a raw egg in the pint glass.
> ...



Haven't seen a stout yet thats a session beer  :blink: 
Glad you don't drink it anymore, more for me


----------



## FNQ Bunyip (13/7/06)

Save a few for me norm 
:beer:

Love a stout 

Stuster even up here in the tropics @ this time of year a half doz pints befor bed ahhhhh now thats sleeping  

:beer:


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/7/06)

peas_and_corn said:


> not a session beer,



What constitutes a session beer is a subjective thing... I have no trouble downing two 750ml bottles of the stuff and enjoying it.  

For what some may find a gross mismatch IMO it (Coopers) backs up South East Asian food wonderfully, particularly Vietnamese & Malaysian. :beerbang: 

What I like about Stouts is most Australian brewers steadfastly keep one in their portfolio and none of them are what I would call undrinkable. Even CUB Invalid is an OK stout :beerbang: and let's face it everything else they make sucks.

Go the local stouts. :super: 

Warren -


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/7/06)

BTW Does anybody know if you can get Sheaf Stout in Melbourne? :unsure: 

I have a penchant to try some. :beerbang: 

Warren -


----------



## mje1980 (13/7/06)

Last year i was lucky enough to be asked to judge the NSW home brew comp held at 5 islands. It was the day after a mates wedding where i had my fill of vb, im ashamed to admit!. Anyway, when i rocked up, i was asked to judge the stouts ( i was just gunna be a gofer, but i think they were short ). Anyway, this included foreign extra, and maybe RIS ( was last year!! ). With my vb hangover, i didn't know if i'd make it through without losing my guts, as im not much of a stout drinker. Well, they were very roasty, but they all had a sweet/estery character as wel, which was nice, and the roastiness was not harsh at all. I dont know how people brew super roasty beers without the harshness, i wish i knew hot to, but mine always turn out with a sharp bite. If i could brew a stout with roast flavour, but not the harshness i'd be very happy!. Any tips??, I've heard of chalk, but what kind of chalk??. Although, once in a blue moon i'll get myself a sheaf stout, just to cleanse the palate haha!, definately not short on flavour that one!


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/7/06)

mje

Adding the roast at the mashout/sparge state helps a lot.  

As an experiment recently in conjunction with Gough I brewed an Irish dry with no water treatment which was stylistically-speaking austere. Was roughly 80% Marris Otter, 10% RB & 10% FB bittered to roughly 40 IBU with one addition of EKG pellets.

Drinks quite clean and unremarkable ATM. No roast bite whatsoever.  

I'm also contemplating doing a Dry Irish up the track with Carafa III added at the mashout in lieu of Baird's RB.

Warren -


----------



## neonmeate (13/7/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> For what some may find a gross mismatch IMO it (Coopers) backs up South East Asian food wonderfully, particularly Vietnamese & Malaysian. :beerbang:



interesting... i can imagine maybe a big chunky massaman beef working well?

pho with stout is a bit weird. but i guess anything is an improvement on "33" beer.


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/7/06)

NM

More or less got the idea when travelling in Malaysia. The part that makes you laugh is Malaysia is hot/humid yet they sit around feeding their faces and drinking Guinness Export stout. 

Yep, you'd expect stout to sit better with a heavy beef stew or meat pie but personally I enjoy it with a Rendang, Vietnamese Spring Rolls or similar.  

All that being said I'm a phillistine. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (13/7/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> BTW Does anybody know if you can get Sheaf Stout in Melbourne? :unsure:
> 
> I have a penchant to try some. :beerbang:
> 
> Warren -



Don't know about Melbourne but it is certainly available in Alaska  

C&B
TDA


----------



## Samwise Gamgee (13/7/06)

lou said:


> Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout
> 
> Yum - am working on a clone :chug:
> 
> ...



I also agree with you Lou,

I quite like Sheaf stout but not a fan of Coopers Stout at all.

Each to their own


----------



## wee stu (13/7/06)

I love my stouts too  

My not so secret ingredient is crystal rye, in amounts up to 10%. Unlike convential barley crystal malts it doesn't translate to cloying sweetness. For mine it adds an interesting dry liquorice character, which is very much to style.

This is my Fat Bastard recipe (it's Scottish, and it's Stout!). It might be a little anaemic for a classic FES as far as the OG and FG figures are concerned, but the crystal rye sets it moderately apart from the classic dry stout pack. Well, the judges at last year's ANAWBS comp seemed to think so  . 

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: The Fat Bastard
Brewer: wee stu
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Dry Stout
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 28.62 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 40.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
0.10 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1.9 % 
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 75.6 % 
0.50 kg Crystal Rye Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (80.0 SRGrain 9.5 % 
0.30 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (710.0 SRM) Grain 5.7 % 
0.19 kg Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 % 
0.10 kg Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (320.0 SRM) Grain 1.9 % 
0.10 kg Carapils (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1.9 % 
25.00 gm Target [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 24.7 IBU 
31.00 gm Goldings, [4.00%] (30 min) Hops 9.4 IBU 
0.57 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 5.29 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 13.81 L of water at 72.4 C 66.0 C 60 min


----------



## mje1980 (13/7/06)

warren, i use carafa 1 in my dark ales, and it's very smooth. You may have something there. I may do what you said, and try roasted malts 5 mins before sparging time. Also, could i use roasted wheat instead of barley??, i dont have roast barley at the moment, but i do have roast wheat.


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/7/06)

Never used roasted wheat. Only Carawheat in a CSA type beer which I really liked. Worst case scenario you'd have to say it (roast wheat) would be interesting.  

Warren -


----------



## Steve (13/7/06)

Not allowed to make any more stout due to the amount of extra bodily gasses I produce after consumption


----------



## brendanos (2/1/07)

I don't understand how there's so many coopers best extra stout haters out there! For me it's up there for with some of the best beers in australia. Shame I didn't get to try it with the extra half a percent though. How exactly has it declined since then? Or alternatively, what's wrong with it now?


----------



## Coodgee (2/1/07)

> Not allowed to make any more stout due to the amount of extra bodily gasses I produce after consumption



it... um.. how can I say this... makes your shit black too!


----------



## brendanos (2/1/07)

I've occasionally been told regular stout consumption will give you "the runs", though i've never witnessed said result. I guess I'll just have to wait til my RIS and Coffee Stout are ready and do some tests in the name of beer biology.


----------



## Cortez The Killer (9/1/07)

Hey all

I gonna be making some FES in the near future and I was wondering what everyone uses for CaCO3 / chalk?

Is blackboard chalk acceptable? I can't seem to find anything conclusive on AHB or the net.

Cheers


----------



## Stuster (9/1/07)

I'm not sure about blackboard chalk. Maybe green would go well in hoppy beers. :lol: 

You should be able to get some from your LHBS. If not, try online. I got some from MHB.


----------



## tangent (9/1/07)

> 0.10 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1.9 %


 are you having sparge problems with this grist Stu??? or are you just being extra careful?


----------



## petesbrew (9/1/07)

Haven't had a Best Extra for a long time now, so I should give it a try.
Had a Southwarks a couple of months back, and it was heaven!
And with St Paddy's day just around the corner, another beefed-up toucan stout is definitley on the cards.
:chug:


----------



## bconnery (11/1/07)

Planning on one of these shorlty and was thinking about using one of the British ale liquid yeasts rather than the obvious Irish Ale. 

Anyone used things like WLP013 London Ale, 017 Whitbread or 023 Burton Ale?

I plan to split it with an English bitter with Bramling Cross so I want something that will go well dual purpose...

As a backup I have Nottingham dry but wanted to try some more liquid...

While I'm here, here's my current planned recipe, any feedback? 
I haven't done a stout so I'm wondering about the percentage of the black and roast malt grains. I do like a nice strong roast flavour but is it too much? Not enough?

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 22.50 L 
Boil Size: 5.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 35.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 51.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.00 kg Black Rock LME (3.0 SRM) Extract 59.4 % 
1.00 kg Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 19.8 % 
0.30 kg Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 % 
0.30 kg Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 % 
0.25 kg Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.0 % 
0.10 kg Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.0 % 
0.10 kg Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2.0 % 
40.00 gm Pacific Gem [15.00%] (60 min) Hops 46.8 IBU 
20.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50%] (10 min) Hops 4.8 IBU 
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 10Yeast-Ale


----------



## drsmurto (21/4/08)

Must admit i am a Coopers BES fan. I just wished i had bought some of the vintage stout or had the self control to age beer.

Noticed in the DB that there are only 2 FES. 

Surely there are more FES brewers out there who are willing to share recipes?

Ive got warrens 4 shades pencilled in for my next brew (dry irish) but want to follow up with a beefy FES.

From the coopers whiteboard i got pale 5000, wheat 440 and black 600. Could it really be that simple? And is the black likely to be added at the end of mashing?

Cheers
DrSmurto


----------



## beerguide (21/4/08)

I love the style/s but have never had the balls to brew one up through fear of completly making a mess of it. I'd like to see more recipes also if people have ones they've tested and would brew again.


----------



## drsmurto (21/4/08)

Caring is sharing :lol: 

Noone?

Well, here is what i punched into beersmith using the coopers whiteboard info and comments above that it used to be a bigger and better beer!

21L, OG 1.068, IBU 47, EBC 97

5.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 84.01 % 
0.60 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) Grain 9.14 % 
0.45 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.85 % 
80.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 38.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 8.7 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Coopers Ale (Coopers) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Anyone care to comment/critique/can? Seems like a lot of black malt to me......

Cheers
DrSmurto


----------



## brettprevans (21/4/08)

This is DarkFaeryTales' - it was a real top notch drop. Just like Guinness should be. rich, malty and bitter.

"Eternal Night"
Foreign Extra Stout
1.067 
finished high, from memory in the 1.020 range
50ish IBU
32.9SRM
75% eff.

JWM trad ale malt 6.00kg
JWM roast Barley 0.30kg
JWM Dark Crystal 0.15kg
Flaked Barley 0.10kg
WEY acidulated 0.05kg

45g Target 6.62A/A 60M
20G EKG 4.75%A/A 45M

US-05/56 yeast


----------



## brettprevans (21/4/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Caring is sharing :lol:
> 
> Noone?
> 
> ...


600g does seem like a lot of black malt.... then again your up at 47 IBU to bitter out that dry roasted bitterness. and it will be black as. hell give it a crack


----------



## beerguide (21/4/08)

Thats a simple looking recipe you've pasted of DarkFaeryTales'.

I reckon I could brew that without catastrophic failure


----------



## braufrau (21/4/08)

This is what HWMBO is drinking now.

Its yummy. A complex, yet balanced, mouth full of chocolate, coffee and a bit fruity.
It tastes like best extra, even though the ingredients are nothing like it, because of the yeast.
(that's based on one experienced drinker I gave a stubby to saying it tasted like coopers without being told that's what its supposed to be).
Actually I should do a side by side tasting. 
Hmmm. Might pop into the bottle-o tonight.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: #16 coopers best extra 
Brewer: BF
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Foreign Extra Stout
TYPE: Partial Mash


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 18.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 66.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 41.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
0.90 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 15.39 % 
3.30 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 56.45 % 
0.41 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236.4 EBC) Grain 7.04 % 
0.34 kg Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC) Grain 5.80 % 
0.21 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain 3.52 % 
21.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.7 IBU 
37.80 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU 
0.69 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 11.80 % 
1 Pkgs CSA Yeast Culture (BrauFrauHaus) Yeast-Ale


----------



## drsmurto (21/4/08)

Braufrau - a tasty looking drop there. 

How long did you leave it in the bottle before drinking?

I have a keg of dry irish stout ready to drink in a few weeks and was planning a FES to be ready once thats all gone.


----------



## braufrau (22/4/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Braufrau - a tasty looking drop there.
> 
> How long did you leave it in the bottle before drinking?
> 
> I have a keg of dry irish stout ready to drink in a few weeks and was planning a FES to be ready once thats all gone.




8 weeks!


----------



## lonte (22/4/08)

The following is my take on Jamil's version from his latest book. I have this on keg and if anything it just didn't come through 'Stouty' enough - the Roast Barley just doesn't offer enough of that 'bite' I look for in a stout. Just looked at the notes and it says that I changed his recipe ("changed chocolate for light chocolate and lifted crystal from 80L to 120L") - I wonder if that might be responsible in some way for the lack of 'bite' ?? I also went way over the 65% efficiency and ended up diluting in the fermenter to bring back to close to gravity - this might have impacted the hop utilisation and thus bitterness balance a little.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 89 - Extra Lying Stout
Brewer: JZ
Asst Brewer: p171
Style: Foreign Extra Stout
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 26.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.68 L
Estimated OG: 1.071 SG
Estimated Color: 44.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 45.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.77 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 84.72 % 
0.42 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (710.0 SRM) Grain 4.58 % 
0.35 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.84 % 
0.35 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.81 % 
0.28 kg Chocolate Malt - Light (200.0 SRM) Grain 3.05 % 
100.00 gm Goldings, East Kent 4.2% [4.20 %] (60 minHops 45.4 IBU 
0.25 tsp Sodium Met (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
12.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Craftbrewer #-) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: *My Mash - Single infusion batch sparge
Total Grain Weight: 9.18 kg
----------------------------
*My Mash - Single infusion batch sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Sacchrification Add 24.76 L of water at 74.7 C 67.0 C 


Notes:
------
OG 1.080, diluted with 2L water to bring down to 1.073


----------



## Fatgodzilla (22/4/08)

lonte said:


> The following is my take on Jamil's version from his latest book. I have this on keg and if anything it just didn't come through 'Stouty' enough - the Roast Barley just doesn't offer enough of that 'bite' I look for in a stout. Just looked at the notes and it says that I changed his recipe ("changed chocolate for light chocolate and lifted crystal from 80L to 120L") - I wonder if that might be responsible in some way for the lack of 'bite' ?? I also went way over the 65% efficiency and ended up diluting in the fermenter to bring back to close to gravity - this might have impacted the hop utilisation and thus bitterness balance a little.




I'd say I'm more a porter drinker than a "heavy" stout drinker so I like the Coopers stout which as most have said or hinted at, isn't as "stouty" as other brands / recipes. I'm compiling the best of these recipes to make my own. 

Lonte, if blind tasting, would you say your brew was a "heavy" porter rather than a stout ? With no black malt, it looks more porter than stout on paper. In your mind do you think if you had added dark malt it might have given this the "stouty" taste its missing ?


----------



## braufrau (22/4/08)

braufrau said:


> 8 weeks!




Oh and obviously .. that's a concentrated boil. if you do a full boil you'd use less hops.


----------



## mickoz (22/4/08)

Are you sure you would need less hops BF? I was listening to James and John Palmer on the Basic Brewing Radio back in late March and there was much discussion\speculation around how isomerisation of the hop acids occurred. The general trend if I remember right is that all the formulas are wrong although they did say that use what works for you, but there was a train of conversation that indicated hop utilisation was highly influenced by how much particulate matter (proteins and other such dissolved matter) in the wort actually increases hop utilisation? Would this hold true for a condensed boil, having an in theory denser level of particles?

Of course I may have misunderstood or recollected bady what I heard.

I'm not sure what to believe anymore - I still do what feels right (which works most of the time but not always) 

Mick


----------



## drsmurto (23/4/08)

Cheers BF, have whipped up a slight variation on yours in beersmith ready to do asap. Have enough beer in kegs that i can let this age before drinking! Might even bottle it


----------



## lonte (23/4/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Lonte, if blind tasting, would you say your brew was a "heavy" porter rather than a stout ? With no black malt, it looks more porter than stout on paper. In your mind do you think if you had added dark malt it might have given this the "stouty" taste its missing ?


I consider the inclusion of Roasted Barley a major differentiater between the Porters and Stouts. The recipe above has ~5% Roasted barley - I usually shoot for 10% in a Stout so my guess is that is the reason it's down a bit in stoutiness ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H "Stout character". It's a bloody beautiful beer, very smooth and hides it's 7.1% ABV a little too well, but is lacking in that dry burnt slightly astringent 'ashy' character I've always had in my stouts. Hell - maybe _they_ were all flawed!!!!!

Edit: bottle of this going to BABB tomorrow night for those interested.


----------



## braufrau (25/4/08)

> Cheers BF, have whipped up a slight variation on yours in beersmith ready to do asap. Have enough beer in kegs that i can let this age before drinking! Might even bottle it




Well I got a bottle of Cooper Best Extra last night and mine is, IMO, farrr better. Coopers seems quite two dimensional with lots of tar and ash flavours at the back of the palate and not much else.
Mine is much more aromatic with a long palate of chocky, coffee, fruit and then a little twist of ash at the end. Oh I know that sounds like bragging and something else I wont mention here. 

Hope you like the results as well as I do DrSmurto.

As far hop utilisation Mick ... well I just do what Beersmith tell me to. \"Computer says less\". 
I use the tinseth formula. There was another BB podcast I heard last year where they had a chemist doing spectroscopic measurements of alpha acids of beers and comparing the results to 
what the formulas got. I think the most accurate was ragers. It makes me wonder, actually, how sensitive the human palate is to degree of acidity. +/- how many IBUs can we estimate by taste?

Hang on ... my daughter wants to add some emoticons ...

:wub: :chug: 

awww ... her first ahb post!


----------



## warrenlw63 (17/7/09)

Hey people just thought I'd re-open this thread. I'm planning my first FES on the weekend. I've sort of got a recipe planned but wouldn't mind seeing if anybody has one they're happy with.  

Stick 'em up for scruitiny.

Cheers.

Warren -


----------



## Screwtop (17/7/09)

braufrau said:


> Well I got a bottle of Cooper Best Extra last night and mine is, IMO, farrr better. Coopers seems quite two dimensional with lots of tar and ash flavours at the back of the palate and not much else.
> Mine is much more aromatic with a long palate of chocky, coffee, fruit and then a little twist of ash at the end. Oh I know that sounds like bragging and something else I wont mention here.




Good on you BF, a real moment as a brewer when this occurs eh, congrats.

Screwy


----------



## Screwtop (17/7/09)

Reading this thread has prompted me, winter and a big stout, yeah it time.

This recipe was sent to me from a member of The Home Brew Forum in the UK and is a fav.

Choc Treacle Stout 
Style: Foreign Extra Stout

Brew length: 50.00 L 

OG: 1.060 SG
Color: 28.8 SRM
IBU: 46
Efficiency: 84.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pale Malt, Maris Otter 50 % 
Pale Malt, (Golden Promise) 27 % 
Roast Barley 6 % 
Crystal Wheat Malt 5 % 
Wheat Malt 4 % 
Chocolate Malt 3 %

75 min Saccharification Rest 67.0 C 

Treacle (Boil 15 min) 5 % 

Galena Hops 45 IBU 

SafAle Dried English Ale S-04 or your favorite English Liquid Yeast


----------



## warrenlw63 (17/7/09)

Looks nice screwy! B) 

What treacle did you use? CSR or were you lucky enough to get some Lyle's Dark Treacle?

Warren -


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (17/7/09)

Bugger me Warren, I have one planned for this weekend as well. :icon_chickcheers: 

Definately the season for it. :icon_drunk: 

There must be more brewers who have brewed a good FES? Stuster? BeerOclock?

C&B
TDA


----------



## warrenlw63 (17/7/09)

I'm thinking of naming mine "Ragman's Coat Extra Stout". :icon_cheers: 

Edit: Here's the recipe subject to change.

Three Shades of FES

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.15
Anticipated OG: 1.071 Plato: 17.25
Anticipated EBC: 143.7
Anticipated IBU: 54.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
55.9 4.00 kg. Bairds Perle Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 6
14.0 1.00 kg. TF Brown Malt UK 1.033 268
7.0 0.50 kg. Brown Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 158
7.0 0.50 kg. TF Pale Oat Malt UK 1.032 4
7.0 0.50 kg. TF Roasted Barley UK 1.033 1640
5.6 0.40 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 1.037 93
3.5 0.25 kg. Bairds Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 1100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
35.00 g. Northdown Pellet 9.60 40.0 60 min.
25.00 g. Northdown Pellet 9.60 14.6 30 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1098 British Ale


Warren -


----------



## TidalPete (17/7/09)

This is my Dark and Dangerous Foreign Extra & is a copy of Barry Cranston's award winning Foreign Extra Stout (Thanks Barry :icon_cheers: ) that is fermenting out as I type. Only the hops\hopping rate has been changed although the Brown Malt was done in the oven & the yeast is 1084 rather than WLP004. This is my first Foreign Extra too.

71% Cryer Ale Malt
5.3% Brown Malt
7.1% Bairds Roast Barley
5.9 Bairds Dark Crystal
3.6% Bairds Chocolate Malt
5.9% Flaked Barley
1.2% Flaked Oats

74g Northdown @ 80 minutes
15g Fuggle @ 10 minutes
25g EKG @ FWH

Yeast 1084 Irish Ale

TP


----------



## Bribie G (17/7/09)

I've found that a quite complex and fruity FES with almost rummy overtones can be made by doing a basic dry stout recipe then adding a Coopers stout can and some moist brown sugar.

4kg any ale malt
250g roast barley
250g Carafa 3
100g Melanoidin

30g Fuggles 90 mins

Can o' Coopers
500g moist brown sugar


I've been using Ringwood yeast but S-04 would do.


----------



## Batz (17/7/09)

Well it years since I brewed a real Stout,this thread will see me brewing one tomorrow.

Can I feel a Stout tasting night at the cave coming up? :icon_cheers: 

Batz


----------



## Screwtop (17/7/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Looks nice screwy! B)
> 
> What treacle did you use? CSR or were you lucky enough to get some Lyle's Dark Treacle?
> 
> Warren -




Abram Lyle & Sons Warren, from Coles Sunshine Plaze at Maroochydore, they have both the Golden Syrup and the Black Treacle. Haven't tried Coles here in good old Gumpy yet. 

Screwy


----------



## warrenlw63 (17/7/09)

Screwtop said:


> Abram Lyle & Sons Warren, from Coles Sunshine Plaze at Maroochydore, they have both the Golden Syrup and the Black Treacle. Haven't tried Coles here in good old Gumpy yet.
> 
> Screwy



Nice one... No luck for me. With our Coles if it isn't CSR or Coles Own there's nowt! <_< 

Warren -


----------



## warrenlw63 (19/7/09)

Stout is done and dusted... My wort looked like a giant espresso.  Smell was rather similar.

Time for a pint.

Warren -


----------



## Screwtop (19/7/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Stout is done and dusted... My wort looked like a giant espresso.  Smell was rather similar.
> 
> Time for a pint.
> 
> Warren -



I'd like a cup of that!


Thats done it, Choc Treacle Stout is next on the list, moved the Screwy's APA forward again. Dark and hoppy things seem to take preference lately, have been wanting to make an apa for months.

Screwy


----------



## drsmurto (15/12/09)

FES crema :icon_drool2:


----------



## Screwtop (15/12/09)

Had a FES made by TDA a couple of weeks ago, fine example and so smooooth. Pics Mark? mine's all gone :icon_drool2: 

Screwy


----------



## petesbrew (15/12/09)

DrSmurto said:


> FES crema :icon_drool2:
> 
> View attachment 33891


Yep, I'd like a shot of that!

Anyone used Rye in a FES? I'm planning one in the new year. Posted the recipe in the DB's as Festy Rye Stout.


----------



## drsmurto (15/12/09)

From my limited use of rye i would have thought it would get lost amongst the intense roast flavours of a FES.


----------



## Midnight Brew (23/11/13)

Woah. Nobody has posted in here for awhile.

I need to use up some loose misc bags of hops I'm probably not going to get around to using anytime soon. The plan is to brew this up today, ferment soon before it gets too hot and just age until winter. The recipe is going to look a bit strange because Im trying to use up some JW Vienna that I dont use alot and these random leftover hops in my freezer.

Loose FES
1.067
1.014
7.1%
80EBC
67 IBU

37.5% JW Vienna
37.5 JW Ale
10% JW Wheat
7% JW Chocolate
3% JW Roasted Barley
5% Cane Sugar (a few days into ferment)

Temp 63/68/72/78
Time 20/40/10/Raise Bag

Various and assorted hops of various AA%'s all vaccum sealed from the freezer since I had them (few years :blink: ). Adjusted with the beersmith hop age tool.

FWH to 50IBU - ish
Tettnang
Cluster Flowers
NZ Hallertau
Saaz
Cluster pellets

Northdown and Citra into the cubes to 17 IBU-ish. Only because theyre open and taste amazing.
Wyeast Greenbelt which is currently fermenting a 3.5% AAA.

Should be a good way to clear some stocks out and hoping it ages well. I'm amazed at how many hops I will still have left after this :blink:

Wanna get into a yearly routine where I brew a large batch of stronger stout and age for 5-6 months before every winter, and hold on to half of the batch and just bring some out every year to try, like my own vintage. :chug:


----------

