# Worst Advice You Have Got From A Hb Shop



## Outback Brewshed (27/3/05)

Hi guys, I stole this idea from the Grumpys website.

"To Cool the fermenter down place 2 bottles of frozen water inside the fermenter each day"

Brisbane HBS


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## dicko (27/3/05)

OB,
I would say that there might be a typo in there somewhere as it probably should have read
"place 2 bottles of frozen water inside the fermenter CABINET OR SIMILAR"
Anything you add to your fermenter during fermentation is high risk and sanition would be paramount if one decided to go down that path.
I would not add anything to a fermenter whilst it is fermenting with the exception of dried hops or spices as required into the secondary.
Cheers


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## johnno (27/3/05)

I'm the sort of customer as most of us probably are that like to compare prices and get the best deal.
I have posted my bad experiences with a certain HBS in Melb a long while ago on here.
I went in there after that looking for a hydrometer.
When I told the shop assistant that I thought the price was a bit high after having to ask him, the reply i got was.
"What the f$%k do you mean its too much, go to another shop if you dont like it here. Get out and never come back."

Its been with great pleasure I have never been back there. 

cheers

johnno


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## Jovial_Monk (27/3/05)

ummmmm I bought a heatbelt for a Coopers Lager kit on the advice of a certain HBS in Adelaide 

JM


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## Outback Brewshed (27/3/05)

"All Grain Brewung is a Dying Art" and "Grab a kit off the shelf, you get better beer from a kit"

Country NSW


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## Troob (27/3/05)

I receivd plenty bad advice. Then I found the brewshop at Unley, well, brewed a Scotch Ale (Old Jockstrap) OG 1074 an used a liquid yeast.

Find a good brwshop, I reckon


Andrew


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## homebrewworld.com (27/3/05)

A hbs in Sydney.......
I asked if he sold any hops, grain, and liquid yest.

' Na mate, the beers from the tins win the comps everytime so we dont use that stuff cause the tins got it all'


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## Sean (27/3/05)

johnno said:


> I'm the sort of customer as most of us probably are that like to compare prices and get the best deal.
> I have posted my bad experiences with a certain HBS in Melb a long while ago on here.
> I went in there after that looking for a hydrometer.
> When I told the shop assistant that I thought the price was a bit high after having to ask him, the reply i got was.
> ...


So you took their advice then?


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## Batz (27/3/05)

I was told by a QLD. brew shop AG is a waste of time you can make better beers using my kits.

And nobody in QLD. sells grains

mmmmm :blink: 

Batz

PS. I was told may more things as well , may may more , till my ears started to bleed , all over the phone , some of you would now be familiar with the shop...Dicko?


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## dicko (27/3/05)

Yes Batz!

Ears bleeding, thats what happened and I wasn't talking about AG.

And............................... I was paying for the call.............. 
on my mobile!! :angry:

But he did send me the goods and I have been pleased with my purchase.

Phew!!!! I would hate to ring him back to complain  

Cheers


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## kook (28/3/05)

When I first started kit brewing (Large HB Distributor/Store in WA):

"Make sure you give your bottles a good shake after adding the priming sugar. This is to distribute the sugar and mix it into the beer."


I shook them like buggery, I figured I needed to mix that sugar in very well to make sure it would carbonate! Ended up oxidising quite a few of my early batches using this method. I always left too much headspace too, which didnt help.


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## wee stu (30/3/05)

Yesterday, I went to a HBS in Adelaide. Only wanted a little bottler, so didn't make the journey to Grumpys, Goliaths, Jovial Monk or Holden Hill. Instead I went to the nearest, one of a chain of about 4 or 5 in Adelaide.

Having got the little bottler, I thought I'd be nice to my brother in law and get him some kits and bits (he's been on at me for a while).

Special of the week was any Black Rock kit with a free kilo of dextrose and finishing hops. 

Picked up the East India Pale Ale and asked for East Kent Goldings finishing hops. 

Suddenly I was in the same Monty Python shop that sold dead, or not, parrots.

HBS guy "What do you want them for? You need cascade in a pale ale"
Me: "In an American Pale Ale, sure, not in an IPA"
HBS guy "Talking about Aussie Pale Ale mate, they all use Cascade. Especially the Tasmanian ones."
Me: "but, cascade are American hops."
HBS guy: "Uh uh TASMANIAN!"
Me: - some pretentious shit about how IPAs were produced in England for export to colonial India with very high hopping to preserve them, using Kent hops like goldings or fuggles
HBS guy: "No, mate. CASCADE, from TASMANIA"
we let that ride for a bit
Me: "Can I ditch the dextrose for some dried malt"
HBS guy: "I'll have to charge you the extra, but it's your beer. Waste of money, won't make any difference"
Me: "OK, it is my beer. What yeast do you have?
HBS guy: "Safale and Saflager"
Me: "Anything else?
HBS guy: "Saflager and Safale"
Me: "Any liquid yeasts?"
HBS guy: "Nah, gave up on them years ago. Too much hassle. Not worth it anyway. They are all the same yeast, anyway. _All the same_."
Me: "Ok, can I have those goldings then?"
HBS guy; "Ok it's your beer!"
So I pay the guy and head for the door, but not before he has one parting shot:
HBS Guy: "Your funeral mate, not going to be the right beer, won't be a pale ale at all, the golding's will make it far to bloody dark!"


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## Ross (30/3/05)

A classic Wee Stu


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## barfridge (30/3/05)

bwahahah!
That's hillarious stu, love it.


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## Batz (30/3/05)

Sounds like a brew shop on Henely Beach Road I visited while back in Adelaide last time

Batz


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## warrenlw63 (30/3/05)

ROTFLMAO!! That's a good'un Wee Stu. :lol: :lol: 

Kind of reminds me in a slightly unrelated, slightly (sorry) off-thread way. Of something that happened to me.

Go into a bottleshop and purchase four bottles of Budweiser Budvar. The pimply face cashier says to me (please excuse the deliberate typo it's meant to sound the way he said it);

"Excuse me sir, don't know if you'll like that... it's not the American one, it's the Chekaalarvarkian one mate". :blink: 

My wife who is half Czech just stood there and bit her tongue. 

(True story I swear, and that's also how he said Czechoslovakian).

Warren -


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## wee stu (30/3/05)

Batz said:


> Sounds like a brew shop on Henely Beach Road I visited while back in Adelaide last time
> 
> Batz
> [post="51791"][/post]​



Let's just say they are very closely related  



warrenlw63 said:


> ROTFLMAO!! That's a good'un Wee Stu. :lol: :lol:
> 
> [post="51792"][/post]​



Ditto your story warren, classic


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## Dunkel_Boy (30/3/05)

I had a similar story to Wee Stu's, though not as funny.
I was considering buying one of those ESB fresh wort kits, the stout, and putting the Burton Ale yeast in there.
"No, use the Irish Ale... Whitelabs... yeah WLP004. The sheet says to use that one."
"Yeah, this is one of my favourite yeasts I'll just grab the Burton Ale, I don't want to end up with Guinesss."
*look of shock*
"No, it won't come out right, you need to use the Irish Ale yeast mate."
"Alright, how about I get the pale ale instead... is that any good?"
"Ohhhh mate, fantastic, very good brew that one."
"Yep... whack some Muntons Gold in there too."
Luckily he didn't push the WLP001 on me, although that time he probably would have been right.
This guy also took around 7 minutes to tell me he had some Burton Ale in the fridge, on the phone. Had to call me back, then got frustrated when I didn't ask him anything else.

Another store, same company, different location, I was chasing some Centennial hops, might be called Super Cascade. The nice lady said she'd chase it up. I came in two days later to see how things were going, "We don't have any Centennial, but the closest is Pride of Ringwood, it's the same bitterness." "Ahhh, no." (yes, felt like saying great, consultation with your expert down in Sydney sure yielded some good results). I asked to see her supply list, and picked out Pacific Gem "Oh, that's weird... I would still go with POR, it's closer in bitterness to what you want." "No, I don't want my beer to taste like XXXX." and she met me with a blank look, so I just continued with "I'll take the Pacific Gem, that will be great thanks."

I have a big list of things... I'm severely tempted to open up my own HBS around these parts, just to put these stupid, stupid people out of business who seem to know nothing at all about beer. I'm definitely no guru, but it's ridiculous how incompetent some of these people are. Very tempting...


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## wee stu (31/3/05)

wee stu said:


> Yesterday, I went to a HBS in Adelaide. Only wanted a little bottler, so didn't make the journey to Grumpys, Goliaths, Jovial Monk or Holden Hill. Instead I went to the nearest, one of a chain of about 4 or 5 in Adelaide.
> [post="51768"][/post]​



I just want to make it clear that, in Adelaide at least, my experience yesterday was the exception and not the rule. The four brewshops I have cited are all keen supporters of the brewing craft. I sometimes get advice I disagree with from these guys, but it is advice based on experience and research. I ignore it by my own choice, and at my own peril.

The shop in Holden Hill is called Brewmaker Home Brewing, which should not in *any way* be confused with *Brewcraft*. 

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I would not want to name the latter group of stores in this thread anyway


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## voota (31/3/05)

I'n my early days, a shop in Melbourne told me to prime my stout using black jelly beans. The result.. filth, a complete drainpour


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## Backlane Brewery (31/3/05)

This was a joke surely Voota? :blink: 

My main problem with Melbourne HB shops (warning thread hijack imminent!) is that there simply aren't enough of them, and the ones we do have are either way out in the 'burbs (Greensborough, Edithvale, Oakleigh)
or in awkward northern suburbs (Maidstone, Heidelberg). :angry: The one next to the Queen Vic closes at 5.00pm weekdays and 12.00 on Saturdays, which makes it hard to visit unless you live or work nearby. When is some smart cookie gonna open one in the inner south, say, Caulfield or Elsternwick?

whinge over, back to normal programming...


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## pint of lager (31/3/05)

These comments are hilarious. Keep them coming. 

One of the hardest things is to get a supermarket brewer to step foot into a homebrew store. They need top quality and appropriate advice when they get in the door. They don't need to know about liquid yeasts, but they all need to know about temperature control, sanitation and good ingredients. It is a shame they are not getting good advice from the above comments.

Now, threat hiajack.

I bet there are screamers of stories from the other side of the fence.


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## Backlane Brewery (31/3/05)

> I bet there are screamers of stories from the other side of the fence



Good one PoL. 
Come JM, Gerard etc, spill the beans about your favourite customers! 
Only the names need to be changed to protect the innocent.


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## warrenlw63 (31/3/05)

pint of lager said:


> One of the hardest things is to get a supermarket brewer to step foot into a homebrew store. They need top quality and appropriate advice[post="51834"][/post]​



POL,

Could also be argued that if the Supermarket Brewer wanted to do anything other than make cheap piss they'd find out a lot of the information for themselves.

Beginning to wonder if the kit and kilo brewer also lacks a computer and internet connection. :huh: 

Basically the brewer who wants to go beyond kit and kilo generally makes the move themselves no matter what. 

First time I stepped into a homebrew store I was doing my first partial mash a week later. 

Problem being here is a horse can be lead to water be it can't be made to drink.  

Warren -


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## pint of lager (31/3/05)

Very true Warren.

The huge problem is that the info on most supermarket tins is so simplified and often wrong, that the supermarket brewer happily makes up many many bottles, thinking they are the best beers. Even getting over the hurdles of temperature control, sanitation and good ingredients is beyond supermarket brewers because of this simplified set of instructions.

Then you find people who can knock out a very decent kit beer, but have no idea of the process behind the gloop, or how beer is made in a brewery.

To look on the other side of the counter, check out Worst Customer Stories, HBS Workers Tell Tales


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## MAH (31/3/05)

Thread started on Mar 27 2005, 12:02 AM by an unregistered user. Soon after Jovial enlightens us with his story. Two posts later a completely new user Troob, pipes up and expouses the virtues of the Jovial's store mentioning the exact product they bought and the OG, basically using the exact same language as recent flyer I got from JM.

*Jovial Monk*
Group: Members
Posts: 1358
Joined: 27-March 03
From: Adelaide
Member No.: 125

*Troob*
Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 27-March 05
Member No.: 960

Nice to see that you signed up again 2 years later on the exact same date!

Cheers
MAH


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (31/3/05)

wee stu said:


> HBS Guy: "Your funeral mate, not going to be the right beer, won't be a pale ale at all, the golding's will make it far to bloody dark!"
> [post="51768"][/post]​



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

That is pure gold!


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## jayse (31/3/05)

If that is true what MAH says than beware anyone who does this you'll be banned! :excl: 


Anyway, i haven't had any addvice from the stores wee stu mentioned suck.
Pretty much all i get when i walk into them stores is groans and grunts and give me your money.
Two different shops one around my corner and one on junk food corner all have told me they think grain is a waste of time, so is yeast and hops.
'none of my customers use them'
To keep with the attitude i just groaned and grunted back and walked out both times.
The only thing those guys are good at is stacking up cans on a shelf!

Jayse


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## mikem108 (31/3/05)

My worst advice was early on in my brewing days, only 3 years ago, the guy obvously just wanted to get rid of whatever yeast was in the fridge. 
me:I'm making an amber ale what yeast do you have
hbs:try this belgian wit(wlp400)
me:Isn't that for beers like Hoegaarden?
hbs:Nah it'll be great for an ale
me:Are you sure?
hbs:It'll be good

In my ignorance I went with his advice,the vial was way out of date,
the beer ended up tasting wierd , really weird- I never drank a drop of it.


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## GOLIATH (31/3/05)

And then there's the one about!!!

Seriously folks, I started to die laughing and then realised just how serious this misinformation is for our craft. Thanks too Wee Stu, for the plug. We should be able to mention shops because I would want to know if I had done the wrong thing and also have the opportunity to respond. To me, it makes good commercial sense!

If you collected train sets, the bloke at the train set shop probably collects them too!
If you buy shares, then the stockbroker probably buys them too!
If you buy a computer or printer, chances are that the bloke selling them has them or at the very least a significant interest in them.

I suppose the issue is that anyone working in an HBS should be able to demonstrate/communicate a sound understanding of the brewing process, otherwise they are just a retail store. I don't mean that they should be Einstein brewers but they should be able to pass on sound fundamentals. 

After all, it's the brewing result that they are purchasing, not the kit or the grain or the hops, their purchases are merely a means to an end. The Chairman of Black and Decker once said that people don't want 1/4" drills, they want 1/4" holes. The same principle applies to our industry.

So.... If someone really likes the flavour of a Savings brand lager kit and a KG of white sugar and is intent on brewing it. Then our role is to assist him/her make it the best it can be. Nine times out of ten, on this approach alone you will have a customer returning for or purchasing, something better just because we bothered with the fundamentals. As they have NEVER been explained to them.

My favourite (and it's happened many times) is the bloke that comes in and announces that he's been brewing for 15 years and I won't be able to tell him anything! 

Him:"G'Day mate, how much is your corn syrup?"
Me: "Which one?"
Him: "You know, Corn syrup for beer"
Me: "You mean Maltodextrin"
Him: "Yeah, that's the stuff"
Me: "I have it from potato, Maize or wheat but they are all different ratings.... What sort of beer are you brewing?"
Him: "I always brew pilsener"
Me: "I wish I could brew pilsener at home in the middle of summer but I don't have the temperature control".. "I can do it here though"
Him: "My heater is set at 26 degrees"
Me: "But how do you get proper pilsener brewing temps of around 13 degrees?"
Him: Looks at me as if i'm from another planet "You can't brew at that temp coz the yeast dies"
Me: "Have a look at this fermenter in the fridge" (11 degrees and bubbling)
Him: "Well I never"
Me: "Have you got 5 minutes for a chat?"

The other laughs happen when we phone to check the knowledge of some of the other Major Chain shops (I won't mention Brewcraft because we are probably not allowed to)

"A mate told me to wet the yeast before putting it in the brewer"
Shop Guy: "Don't worry about that crap mate"
"Why?"
Shop Guy: "It won't make any difference"
"Well I should at least try it, how is it done?"
Shop Guy: "Never done it, Ask your mate"
"Do you brew yourself?"
Shop Guy: "No, I don't like beer, I drink Bundy"
"Thanks for you help mate"
Shop Guy: "No worries"

I have a fermenter here in the shop that I gave ten bucks for to use as a shop display, it is a clear fermenter, turned black. I can't get it clean with the stuff i've got here! 

The only comment i got was that he'd followed the instructions and couldn't understand why it was turning his beer off. So much for instructions.

Our friends at Coopers are coming around though. They are soon to put a yeast rehydration instruction in their brewmaster series kits...Small steps but positive.

Regards
Dave


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## Thunderlips (31/3/05)

> When is some smart cookie gonna open one in the inner south, say, Caulfield or Elsternwick?



Someone needs to open a HBS at Werribee Plaza. That place is always so busy I reckon they'd be on a goldmine. The closest to me is in Maidstone. I've been there once, to buy my keg setup, and now just order through their online store every now and then.


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## deebee (31/3/05)

Ive been to 5 HBSs in Perth and only one bloke knows his stuff Roy at TWOC. The others talk crap rather than admit they dont know or are just plain rude like the bloke at Malthouse. I agree Dave, why not name him so that he gets to know why I drive 40-50km round trip to TWOC instead of 7km to his shop?

Typical AHB story: I have learnt some stuff by reading and by applying it to actual brewing. I dont brew all-grain, but my customer needs are beyond most HBSs. If I were deep into hi-fi, I wouldnt shop at Myer. There might only be one place in town to find what I wanted or mail order. Sadly its much the same with brewing. Not many people who brew at home use malted grains, bulk hops, liquid yeasts or the toys and gizmos we love so much.

Maybe its slowly changing. Do HBS owners/employees notice more people venturing beyond instructions-on-the-can brewing? Do customers say, Thank god I found your shop? Is it just your own efforts to advance your customers brewing practices? Or are they getting inquisitive naturally along with the swell in micros and better quality beers? Hopefully there is room for a few more good craft brewing shops in places where they just dont exist yet. Like near me.

(Big D?)


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## Hoops (31/3/05)

Batz said:


> I was told by a QLD. brew shop AG is a waste of time you can make better beers using my kits.
> 
> And nobody in QLD. sells grains
> 
> ...


Sounds like I had nearly the exact same conversation with him too:
"Grains a waste of time"
"Dry yeats are far better than any liquid yeast....waste of time those"
and lots & lots & lots & lots of other things


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## Gerard_M (31/3/05)

I always liked to look at the face of the guy who is seeing a fermentor in a fridge for the first time. It really makes your day.I like to tell people that if its 27 degrees in your lounge room you start to sweat & smell bad. Well so does the beer.


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## shmick (31/3/05)

I rang the LHBS to ask if they had 5kg of Pale ale malt for an all grain brew:

"Sure mate we got lots of different types"

1/2 hr drive later I walk into the shop to find 10 x 500g pkts of assorted steeping grain (crystal, chocolate etc) sitting on the counter waiting for me.

"You cleaned us out of stock but this should keep you going a while!"

A polite explaination prompted the second reply:

"I can order in what ever you wan't next time. I'll ask my supplier and get back to you with a price. What was it again - pale nail malt?"

The kids learned a few new words on the way home and I've never been back.


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## kitkat (31/3/05)

just be careful with naming shops, libel laws could apply:
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0...Enbv%5E,00.html

Keep also in mind that the AHB owners are considered to be publishing the posts, and hence can be held responsible as well (even if they don't moderate the posts).

Check out that thread at Whirlpool for more details and information: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=319789 

Of course shops named in relation to good experience would probably be happy of the publicity.

In Melbourne: the maidstone grain and grape shop was great, the guy at the counter gave me some hints (I wanted to follow a recipe so I had most of what I needed written down, but he made some helpful suggestions), and it's the only one I found that had liquid yeasts and ESB 15 Kgs pack (cheap too). And let's not forget the half-price liquid yeast if they're older than 6 months (one is busy fermenting right now). 

Another shop didn't have much dried malt stock when I needed some, but looked alright (though they close early), so I might give it another try for specific kits and extracts, and a third shop just sold me a "kit converter" with a couple of grunts (first brew). Won't go back to that one.


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## SteveSA (31/3/05)

kitkat said:


> just be careful with naming shops, libel laws could apply:
> http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0...Enbv%5E,00.html



That was from the UK and sounds much more serious than us relating stories about ignorant fools who obviously work in the wrong industry.

I say name them and let them suffer the consequences.

I had a similar experience to Jayse re Brewcraft at junk food junction virtually word for word. The guy has his head buried so far in his great wall of gloop he's closed off to his customers' opinions and demands. But then again, if you go to a monkey house you've got to expect some crap to be thrown your way.

On the whole though I usually receive good advice, not necessarily advice that I always agree with but at least it's based on good brewing principles. My custom goes to brewshops that I know cater to craftbrewing rather than the franchised retail outlets who don't appear interested in anything related to better beer. Benefit of living in Adelaide  We're spoilt for choice really.



kitkat said:


> Check out that thread at Whirlpool for more details and information: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=319789



Can't get access to that thread.  

Steve


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## kitkat (31/3/05)

The original article is about a case in the UK, but don't think that libel laws don't apply in Australia ...

Some relevant quote from that thread:



> "The overall shape of Australian defamation law is that a person who 'publishes' an assertion of fact or a comment that
> 
> * injures - or, importantly, is 'likely' to injure - the personal, professional, trade or business reputation of an individual or a company
> * exposes them to ridicule or
> ...





> One particular thread did a similar thing, the named company emailed me threatening straight up legal action, no talk, nothing, just bullying tactics. It ended up that we deleted the thread, and some emails/voice convo's about the thread, and that was that. This person was adamant about going thru the courts over it.
> 
> In researching our options, we found out that we (me and 4 other owners of the site) would have been liable for it, as we basically 'publish' the threads, even though its a forum and we dont moderate the threads before they get posted.



Edited quote out of several posts:



> Three years ago I got "done" for defamation in WA over a bottle of wine that I claimed in several emails and faxes was substituted for the wine that I actually ordered
> I was making robust efforts to simply get a refund for the dodgy bottle, and for the fish that was still part-frozen in the centre when served
> 
> At the time I had taken up the matter with the duty manager, who just laughed
> ...



Edit: just putting this in because I see some people name some shops that have a national presence and could easily decide that they're being defamed.


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## big d (31/3/05)

deebee said:


> Hopefully there is room for a few more good craft brewing shops in places where they just don’t exist yet. Like near me.
> 
> (Big D?)
> [post="51890"][/post]​



i hear you deebee.
reckon the northern suburbs could well and truely do with a good homebrew shop.
is bullsbrook too far away from you?


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## JasonY (31/3/05)

4077MASH, I believe the meaning was that _If_ people are found to be registering multiple times and talking to themselves (or other such crap) then they will be banned.

On the subject of the thread I am afraid I am unfortunate to live clostest to TWOC in WA so haven't had to listen to any bad advise for quite some time.


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## 4077M*A*S*H (31/3/05)

Thanks for clearing that question up JasonY. 

Back to the thread.

When asked for Cascade Hops (US) for a LC copy HBS owner said that a X brand Kit with a Number XX converter kit will make a LC. Then HBS owner preceded to tell me mashing was a waste of his time and effort. 

"old blokes with pantyhose" was thrown in there somewhere. 

HBS Brisbane


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## jgriffin (31/3/05)

IANAL but... i've been down this whole internet forum defamation thing before. Simply put a person tried to sue the owner and all moderators (me included) of another Internet forum.
Now it's a bit complicated, especially since all states have different defamation laws, but the general rule is that you can state a fact as much as you want, however it had to have happened to you, has to be true, and can't contain an opinion.

I.E
"I bought a vial of yeast from XXX HB shop, and it was 6 months out of date" is fine
"I reckon that XXX HB shop changes the date on their yeasts" is liable to get your ass sued.


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## berto (31/3/05)

Not a bad story. But i started out my brewing days at TCB at Richmond. ABout 6 months ago now i spose. The guy there is great. TCB doesnt do much for AG, but he does his bit. Talks you out of getting all excited when you start out. Tries to make sure you keep away from sugar with your first kit. Gave me a 1 hour spiel first time on what i need, what temps etc etc. Since that time he helped me move to extract. Whipped up some recipes on beertools with him a few times now, and every time im in the shop hes always got 3 fermenters or so bubbling away at the back of the shop. To me he does the righ thing by starting out would be supermarket shoppers with a simple can and doint eh little things right. Then suggesting a bit of this hop, or that hop. Maybe steep some crystal etc.


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## Hoops (2/4/05)

jgriffin said:


> IANAL but... i've been down this whole internet forum defamation thing before. Simply put a person tried to sue the owner and all moderators (me included) of another Internet forum.
> Now it's a bit complicated, especially since all states have different defamation laws, but the general rule is that you can state a fact as much as you want, however it had to have happened to you, has to be true, and can't contain an opinion.
> 
> I.E
> ...


I nearly bought a Wyeast 2306 last week, then saw the date - manufactured 2003! <_<


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## voota (2/4/05)

I think there is also a bit of a problem with brew shops treating young people (myself included) with contempt, there have been many shops I have found which just dont want to help me, but spend ages assisting some other older bloke. Interestingly enough, when I was 16 (when I started brewing) the shop keepers loved it and were more than willing to offer advice/chat. 

The brew shops in Victoria that I've found to be best are..

Grain and Grape - great range and good advice (when they arent busy)

Ballarat home brew - smaller range of products but the couple that ran the shop were very friendly and helpful

Greensborough home brew - dont go there much but they had a great range and were very helpful with kegging systems.

oh. and the jelly beans wasn't a joke.


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## Gerard_M (2/4/05)

I have to put my 2c worth in defence of Jelly Bean carbonation. Firstly we only use the 100% Glucose Jelly Beans in the blue pack that you get at the chemist shop. we usually only do 3 or 4 bottles in a batch of Wheat beer & mark them.
We have tried the Red, Green, Blue, & yellow ones. It has always been a pretty good result, but we wouldn't do a whole batch of it. We have also primed a beer with home made Chilli wine. I have tried a Stout with the Black Jelly Beans in it & it was great. Now as I said I would not tell anyone to carbonate all their beer that way, but its nice to have something different going on.
Cheers
Gerard


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## Pumpy (2/4/05)

I have not read them all but we have a lovely grumpy ol' bastard here out west of Sydney in a city with the letter C, sold me some lovely POR hops the resultant beer tastes of cats pee ,I reckon they must have beeen in his fridge for yonks .

I think he may be a mind of informationon HB if only he was not so anti social 


Pumpy


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