# Chinook & Cascade



## hughman666 (5/2/07)

Hi all,

I've been making the below recipe for a while now and it's a nice bitter IPA. I am wanting to experiment with the Chinook & Cascade hops though, perhaps by adding Chinook in at the aroma stage, say 5 minute mark.

Has anyone used Chinook for aroma at all, or Cascade for bittering? Isn't Chinook what LCPA uses? Also, I'm thinking of swapping 1kg of the Pale Malt out for 1kg of Weyermann Pils to lighten the colour up slightly.

To get more of an APA and less of an IPA what would you do (without introducing Perle or other hops)?

IPA recipe:

5.00 kg. Pale Ale Malt 
0.50 kg. CaraMunich 40
0.25 kg. CaraWheat

28.35 g. Chinook 60 min.
28.35 g. Cascade 15 min.

Mash at 67c for 90 mins. 90 minute boil. US-56 yeast.


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## mika (5/2/07)

Hi Hughman, if you follow the Skunt Fart thread you'll notice Cascade dominates heavily. The LCPA has a fair bit of Cascade in it, not sure on the Chinook, I used some as a late addition on my first AG, so ~3wks and I'll find out


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## Adamt (6/2/07)

A change from an IPA to an APA is as simple as removing some of the bittering hops, and add more flavouring/aroma hops. Or, just leave it the same IPA bitterness and add craploads more flavouring/aroma hops.

Chinook as a flavouring hop is good, not sure about aroma though. It's quite a similar flavour to Cascade but seems to be a bit more robust (can't think of a better word). Have never used Chinook to aroma though. My IPA recipe that uses chinook and cascade is in my signature.


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## T.D. (6/2/07)

Chinook can be good late in the boil, but just make sure you don't use too much! I would say as a rule of thumb if you would usually use 20g of Cascade, then use 10g of Chinook in its place. Chinook's a potent little bugger, and can easily overpower other hop and malt flavours if you aren't careful. Great flavour, don't get me wrong, but you don't need much. Compared to cascade which is quite fruity, chinook has a sharper edge - more like grapefruit.

And yeah, LCPA uses cascade and chinook flowers in their hopback, so for aroma in other words. I would be willing to put money on the fact its not half/half cascade and chinook though - more like 75/25 or something like that. I have brewed a LCPA clone that came out pretty close and it had Chinook at 10mins from memory. Only had a dab (maybe 15g) but it really cut through the mix! I also did that beer with a pilsner malt base which would've allowed the hops to dominate a bit more. 

Hopping something like this would work quite well I think:

Cascade to bitter
20g Cascade @ 20
20g Cascade @ 10
10g Chinook @ 5
20g Cascade @ 0

Wouldn't be over the top in hoppiness but it'll certainly be prominant, as it should be in an APA.

I think an IPA grain bill, reduced in volume for a lower OG, would be fine for an APA. Just reduce the IBU too (shoot for a BU:GU ratio of around 0.75-0.8) and you've got yourself an APA in my opinion! :super:


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## Stuster (6/2/07)

I think we'll need a bit more info there, hughman. What batch size is that for? What efficiency do you get? What percentage AA are those hops? :unsure: 

Plugging those figures into Promash though, for a 23L batch, with 75% efficiency and standard hop values gives an OG of 1059 and only 43IBUs. I would say that is more like an APA anyway, even though Chinook is a fairly strong flavour.  

I think T.D.'s suggestions look good, although you could use some Chinook for bittering if you wanted to keep that.


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## sluggerdog (6/2/07)

hughman, I just made the following a few weeks ago, have never used either of these hops much before but had them sitting in my freezer for a year now and wanted to use them up, should be kegging it this coming weekend, will report back. This is for 40 litres

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
9000.00 gm Pale Malt (Powells) (4.5 EBC) Grain 72.0 % 
2750.00 gm Munich Malt (Powells) (15.0 EBC) Grain 22.0 % 
500.00 gm Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 4.0 % 
150.00 gm CaraPils (10.0 EBC) Grain 1.2 % 
100.00 gm Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (800.0 EBC) Grain 0.8 % 
60.00 gm Chinook [12.10%] (15 min) Hops 21.4 IBU 
60.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (15 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
40.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (20 min) Hops 8.3 IBU 
40.00 gm Chinook [12.10%] (5 min) Hops 5.7 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (5 min) Hops 2.1 IBU 
30.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (25 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops - 
2.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs Safale - American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale


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## hughman666 (6/2/07)

Stuster said:


> I think we'll need a bit more info there, hughman. What batch size is that for? What efficiency do you get? What percentage AA are those hops? :unsure:
> 
> Plugging those figures into Promash though, for a 23L batch, with 75% efficiency and standard hop values gives an OG of 1059 and only 43IBUs. I would say that is more like an APA anyway, even though Chinook is a fairly strong flavour.
> 
> I think T.D.'s suggestions look good, although you could use some Chinook for bittering if you wanted to keep that.



mate, this is for a 22.5L batch. agreed, that the IBU's are a little on the low side, although when tasting this one, it is definitely an IPA (i'm using pellets btw, may account for some increase in IBUs). i'm getting quite a lot of bitterness out of my rig which seems to overshoot what promash says.

thanks for the responses so far guys!!


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## Screwtop (6/2/07)

There's no mistaking Chinook or Perle if used for bittering. Have cut them back and blended with other not so in your face bittering hops with good results, still like to use perle and even a little POR occasionally for bittering but now combine a small amount, from 5 - 10g with the remainder being something like Northern Brewer at 60 min to achieve desired IBU. With very pale/pils malt I use them very sparingly for bittering, or switch them to flavour/aroma use.


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## Weizguy (6/2/07)

G'day,

I have made a few all-Chinook "Arrogant Bastard" clones which were well-received.

The Stone Brewing motto that comes with the Arrogant is: "Drink it young to prove your mettle". This is due to the relative harshness of the fresh Chinook. Takes a bit of getting used to, but if you don't like it, that's OK too.
It just proves that you're not worthy. :lol: 

Seth out


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