# stubbies v tallies carbonation



## squirrell (26/4/14)

i am drinking another batch of home brew. for a while I have been wondering why the carbonation from my reused stubbies are better than my pet tallies. I have come to the conclusion that its a volume thing ie a tallie is 740 mls a stubbie is 330 to 350. 1 drop goes further in a stubbie than 2 in a tallie. do others find that 2 drops don quite cut it in a tallie? I know bulk priming would sort this, but so would using heaped portions of sugar for my tallies. I often find there is residue sugar at the bottom of the carb drops packet so this implies the drops are shedding some sugar.


----------



## wynnum1 (26/4/14)

pet tallies. is that plastic


----------



## squirrell (26/4/14)

Yes, they are plastic


----------



## wynnum1 (26/4/14)

Plastic can expand under pressure and glass is more rigid and do you expel the air from the plastic bottles when closing .


----------



## squirrell (26/4/14)

Wynnum1, I tried the expel of air on bottles on last lot, still not a massive improvement. I also use the odd flip top glass bottle which also tend to give disappointing carbonation. So basically my stubbies are always good, tallies of all types are indifferent. There is more sugar relative to volume in stubbies so I think that may be it. Or maybe I should just wait longer, its only been 3 weeks.


----------



## yum beer (26/4/14)

Giving it time will help, 2 carb drops in a longie is plenty.
Yes the stubbie will carb more due to the volume differential...more sugar per litre in a a stubbie.
I personally find that 1 drop per stubbie is way to much and that over time you may find your bottles too carbed, while there a bit younger you might get away with it...
If using drops I use 1/2 to 2/3 per stubbie at most.
PET won't help with getting consistent results, they leak CO2 and oxygen over time, get glass as soon as you can if you want longies.


----------



## geneabovill (26/4/14)

Research bulk priming. It'll give you across the board carbonation, no matter the size of the bottle.

Also greater control over the carbonation level of the beer - some beers are supposed to have more carbonation than others.


----------



## pat86 (26/4/14)

I thought quite a bit of the time that my stubbies with one carb drop were too carbonated, but that's probably just personal taste


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (26/4/14)

Bulk priming. Allows for changes in style (high co2 vols for an APA or continental lager vs low c02 for english beers).

Also allows for difference in sizing - especially as I have to take what I get, so craft tallies (640-660ml), pint bottles, 500ml,800ml and 750ml bottles all can be used for the same batch.


----------



## Nizmoose (15/5/14)

No offence to anyone here but the whole "you can change co2 levels with bulk prime" thing sort of bugs me, you can adjust carbonation by changing the amount of sugar you put in each bottle with a scoop or two, it's not as easy to be as accurate but I think it's less effort than bulk priming and gives near enough to perfect results.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/5/14)

Nizmoose said:


> No offence to anyone here but the whole "you can change co2 levels with bulk prime" thing sort of bugs me, you can adjust carbonation by changing the amount of sugar you put in each bottle with a scoop or two, it's not as easy to be as accurate but I think it's less effort than bulk priming and gives near enough to perfect results.


Possibly - but if you get it wrong, then you run the risk of a bottle bomb or two.

I'm not sure how you think it's easier than bulk priming though. I run my beer from its yeast cake at any rate into a bottling bucket. To me, boiling a kettle and whacking one lot of sugar into a bottling bucket is far easier than measuring an amount of sugar x 30 (or 60 if it's stubbies). Even drops aren't as easy as this (and I used some recently to prove the point to myself).

I cannot imagine how difficult it would have been to even out carbonation on a British Pale over 800/750/660/640/568/500 ml bottles and have to measure each scoop out individually, even if I could have.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

How is bulk primming more difficult...its actually easier...you just need a spare cube/fermenter.

You dont have to muck around primming each bottle.


----------



## JaseH (15/5/14)

Nizmoose said:


> .....but I think it's less effort than bulk priming and gives near enough to perfect results.


..said no one ever who has tried bulk priming! h34r:

I bulk prime and would never consider going back to priming individual bottles. It's much simpler, more accurate and consistent. I can and do fill all different sized bottles(from 300, 330, 375, 500, 700, 750... ), all carb up consistently with no added thought to how much sugar to add.


----------



## Bribie G (15/5/14)

Bulk priming is great for dealing with an array of bottle sizes. However if you bottle exclusively in 740 / 750 ml PET home brew bottles then a very good standard dose of priming sugars that are not only completely identical (edit: in size) but a third of the price of carb drops is:





Currently I'm brewing for the competition season, which is the only time I bottle beer, and I have never used anything other than da cubez when bottling PET longies. Time to trot off to BiLo for a new box of CSR's finest. :beerbang:


----------



## Black Devil Dog (15/5/14)

Where do you get bottles with square necks?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

Just push them in with a large hammer.


----------



## warra48 (15/5/14)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Where do you get bottles with square necks?


Never realised we have members with square necks.....

Back on topic, the sugar cubes are small enough to fit through the neck of a beer bottle.


----------



## Bribie G (15/5/14)

God has decreed that sugaz cubez will fit through the neck of any PET bottle.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

But what if God bulk primes.....


----------



## Parks (15/5/14)

I never had success bulk priming. Some bottles would be great others would not carbonated at all. Couldn't get the sugar to dissolve consistently.

Because I rarely bottle and when I do I use either 750 or 330ml bottles, I find it much easier to individually prime rather than sanitise another fermenter. I have drug scales so can accurately prime each bottle the right amount.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

Parks said:


> I have drug scales so can accurately prime each bottle the right amount.


Ok Walter....

It is actually possible to dissolve your sugar/dex/meth/malt in some water first.

I always use a hose off the tap and get a nice swirling-mixing motion without areation.


----------



## Nizmoose (15/5/14)

haha yeah sorry I shouldnt have said easier, when I say easier I sort of mean less things to mess with if that makes sense? I'm new to the process and feel as though if I was to bulk prime it'd be a risk of oxidation and infection that I don't feel all that comfortable with at this stage. I guess what I should have said is it bugs me a bit when people suggest bulk priming to people just starting out just because they now do it 3 years down the track as I feel like it introduces one too many steps where the beer can be ruined when all things considered in the few batches I've done I've never had an explosion or noticed under-carbed or over-carbed beers at all. Hopefully makes sense? Not having a dig at bulk priming and if I was confident I'd definitely use it I just feel I'd be so devastated if I went to the effort of cleaning another bucket, siphon, etc, sloshed my beer around and made it taste crap all because I couldnt be bothered using a 330ml scoop/ 1/4 tsp scoop/ 1/3tsp scoop etc. 

EDIT: PS IF you are using heaps of different sized bottles it makes more sense, I currently have 330ml bottles and 640ml bottles and have no issues using scoops and a funnel at this stage of my brewing experience 

EDIT EDIT: also I think syringe priming can be a really good happy medium for new brewers who want even carbonation


----------



## Parks (15/5/14)

I felt drug scales were more easily understood than scales that measure to 0.01gm with some reasonable accuracy.

I tried the swirl but failed so now I know for sure that every bottle gets the correct amount of sugarz. As I said, I don't do it regularly so I would rather know for sure it's done right.


----------



## slcmorro (15/5/14)

Bulk priming ftw. Seriously. Not having a go at you carbo drop or per bottle guys, but it's easier and quicker in my opinion. To each their own, but I don't reckon you'll go back once you get it.


----------



## SimoB (15/5/14)

Bulk prime for the win

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

Nizmoose said:


> EDIT EDIT: also I think syringe priming can be a really good happy medium for new brewers who want even carbonation


To much meth......shit...I mean math involved with syringe primming.....

It been tried before. There is a reason why no-one uses it.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/5/14)

Hot water dissolves sugar.

I don't bottle straight from the fermenter because I prefer most of the yeast remaining in the fermenter, not in the bottle. So no extra effort for me.


----------



## Bribie G (15/5/14)

I have never bulk primed but I would guess the key is to thoroughly stir and agitate the green beer and the sugar solution to get it all perfectly mixed, that could be a bit hit or miss as reported by Parks. If you can get that right, it would introduce a bit of oxygen into the beer with the stirring, and would be a good way of introducing some O2 for the conditioning yeast to breed up in the bottle.

I emailed God on the  contact url and he says he uses sugaz cubez.


----------



## JaseH (15/5/14)

I keg most of mine - but do 27L batches so bottle the remaining 8L or so. After I've drained most of the beer from the fermenter into the keg, I drain the rest into my dedicated bottling vessel which I have marked in 1L increments. So no yeast cake and hop trub to to deal with. I use a priming calculator to give me the amount of dex I need for the desired C02 volume, I mix the dex with a little bit of water into a pot and slap it on the stove for a few minutes until it boils. Pour it into the beer, give it a gentle stir and bottle. Oxidisation shouldn't be a big deal because the additional yeast activity from secondary ferment should clean it up. Never had an inconstantly carbed batch and I can adjust carb from slight for English ales, stouts and porters to champagne fizzy for Saisons. :drinks:


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/14)

There is a bit of a trick to bulk primming and mixing of da sugaz.

Firstly...disolve your sugar/dex/meth/malt in some hot water...about 1/2 ltr is fine. Pour that into your bulk prime vessel

The next bit involves placing your fermenter on 2 stolen milk crates with a lenth of hose long enough to reach the bottom of your bulk priming vessel. You can also steal your hose from next door if you dont feel like cutting up your own

If you are using a round fermenter, you want to place your hose so the the end is about 1" from the side and the hose forms a line disecting the centre acoss the bottom.This gives maximum mixing but wont cause a wirlpool effect. It also lessens any airation

If you use a cube, do the same thing as a round one.

You dont want a circular whirlpool type action

Make sure every thing is clean and sanitized.

There will be enough yeast suspended to allow for carbing and most/all of the trub gets left in the primary fermenter....so good for those that dry hop.

I good rule of thumb is 5g/Ltr of sugar for a 5% pale Ale. Less for Stouts as they take longer to carb & condition due to the sugaz from the dark malts that need more time for the yeast to convert.


----------



## slcmorro (15/5/14)

Meh. Unless you're openly pouring the beer into the bottles, you risk very negligible oxidisation when bottling and/or bulk priming. The small amount you do introduce (if you use a bottling wand or a racking tube) will be consumed by secondary fermentation in the bottle. Don't stress.


----------



## TheBaron (16/5/14)

I'm finding some serious issues with my PET tallies. I've opened up about 8 from my last batch and 6 of them were so un-carbed they tasted flat. I used 2 carb drops so it shouldn't be the amount of sugar, and the lids felt screwed on tight enough...


----------

