# White Labs Vs Wyeast



## big d (26/3/04)

i will be in adelaide and perth soon and will be stocking up on both varieties.never tried white labs before.
whats the general opinion of white labs yeasts.was thinking of wlp001 california ale yeast.

thoughts anyone?
varieties?

cheers
big d


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## AndrewQLD (27/3/04)

I use white labs yeast exclucively now, I did try wyeast and while there products are excellent the cell count inside the pack is less than half what you get in the white labs, I found that the white lab cultures take off a lot quicker too.

I make up a fairly large starter to begin with, get 1/2 a dozen stubbies for storage, and then make another starter for the first brew. After this has fermented I rack to secondary and take a nice thick sample from the slurry and put this back into the vial that the yeast came in originally. 

I get a lot of yest from one vial  :lol:


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## Hoops (27/3/04)

Andrew

That's good to know, thanks. I was considering using Wyeast or Whitelabs.
You just made my mind up for me.

Hoops


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## Jovial_Monk (27/3/04)

Must admit I liked the WL

Stopped stocking it because local distributor did, but I am getting some in from Natl distributor in Sydney. Intend to stock enough to complement the WYeasts plus the WL seasonals on hand as they are released

Jovial Monk


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## Linz (27/3/04)

A neat trick I saw in regards to the white labs vials is... when draining the cooled wort from the boiler or CFC to your fermenter,once the fermenter reaches half full pitch the vial to the wort. Then slow the rate of drain and fill the vial again and cap.There is usually enough yeast left behind in the vial to start again. Havent done it myself but seen it done.


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## Murray (28/3/04)

Sounds good Linz. I doubt you would be able to achieve the original cell count, but it still would be useful.

I'm a WL fan myself. More yeast, much simpler process.


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## Linz (28/3/04)

With the wyeast you proof it before you pitch it to a starter(swollen pack),whereas with the white labs tube you're banking on the fact that it has been handled correctly/sufficiently along the way and proofing it IN the starter.
Either way you'll only lose $15- $20(plus the cost of the brew if you're pitching from the tube) once at the one shop won't you??


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## wardy (28/3/04)

well so far i've only used the wyeast... but i am about to try the white labs because that is what my new HBS stocks. 

my question is a little off thread....

with regard to propogation and making 5 or 6 starters from the original.. what temperature should the yeast be propogated at when it is a lager yeast, should it be done at the 10C or 12C as it's profile suggests? or can it be done at room temperature? 

My thoughts were that temperature would not matter too much as this would only effect the "flavour" of the fermenting wort/beer produced (which i would throw out later), whereas i am only concerned in the "multiplication" of yeast cells. However, will my yeast cells be better "quality" or more of them if they are "propogated" at the temperatures suggested by the manufacturer for fermentation?(ie low temperatures) does this make sense?


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## Linz (28/3/04)

Wardy,

Making and splitting starters is/can be done at room temp(less than 30oC).
Your thoughts are spot on. There would be more, sooner at a warmer temp as they would multiply faster. The quality should still be there if your sanitary methods are up to scratch.
The suggested fermentation temp are there for the Flavour profiles for the yeast, IE:- known flavours at that temp and odd flavours at higher temps and missing flavours at lower temps.

At least thats my spin on it....waiting for the numerous others to come rolling in B)


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## deebee (28/3/04)

I guess Wyeast have picked up on the fact that WL have a pitchable tube whereas their packs need to be made into a starter before pitching. The last couple of wyeast packs I have bought have been the pitchable size packs - you do not need to make a starter - they can be smacked, swollen and pitched. I still make a big starter and split it up for economy's sake.


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## Barry (29/3/04)

Good Day
These are my favourite White Lab yeasts at the moment.
WLP001 Calf Ale, great all purpose ale yeast from blondes to dry stouts, lets the malt and hops come through, neutral.

WLP023 Burton Great for English pale, IPA, bitters a real ale profile that can take higher ale fermentation temps.

WLP025 Southwold Also great for bitters and pales, a soft interesting profile.

WLP028 Edinburgh Great for stouts, porters, red ales, any dark malty ale.

WLP810 San Fran IMHO the best lager yeast for those who brew lagers in the garage in winter (or for anyone), everything from Bohemian pils to dopplebocks, very forgiving and easy to use.


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## peter (18/4/04)

just started up a WL liquid yeast by making up a mini wort using a 2L coke bottle, then dividing the contents up equally. no probs.
my question is , what effect does the alcohol have on the stored yeast?
i have read somewhere that alcohol creates a harsh environment for yeast to live in- or is this not true?
any comments would be apreciated.


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## Jazman (18/4/04)

i like white labs for convience but wyeast is good and you know if you got a the right plus wyeast is cheaper but in adelaide wlabs is hard to get at the mo unless i get it from sydney so im happy with wyeast


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## jayse (18/4/04)

you guys aren't really talking about the quality of the yeast as such but its 'idiot proveness'.
personally i'd rather spend ten bucks on a 55ml smack pack and look after and get a few brews out of it.
once you now how to culture yeast the size of the cell count is not important but the health is the important thing.
The 55ml smack packs are what i use and love them, cheap and not as tempermantal as some would lend you to believe.
for $10 you only need to get three brews out of them to be happy. 

go the little smack pack.
jayse
ps although i would like to get my hands on the wl burton ale.


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## Hoops (18/4/04)

If you were going to make a few starters from either which do you think is better and why? or is it much of a muchness?


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## JasonY (18/4/04)

Yet to try whitelabs as its not readily available near me ... at the end of the day I go for taste and performance of the yeast. Brand a, b, c who cares if it gives me the best beer for my wort then thats the one I want. 

Fellow brewers recommendations of strains are a great source.


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## Murray (19/4/04)

peter said:


> just started up a WL liquid yeast by making up a mini wort using a 2L coke bottle, then dividing the contents up equally. no probs.
> my question is , what effect does the alcohol have on the stored yeast?
> i have read somewhere that alcohol creates a harsh environment for yeast to live in- or is this not true?
> any comments would be apreciated.


 White Labs recommend storing yeast under beer, so I would assume the alcohol in the environment isn't a problem.


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## Weizguy (7/12/04)

If U plan to get a few cultures from either style/brand, I'd say to base your decision on yeast qualities and yeast freshness.

Had a manky WhiteLabs a while back and it took 3 days to start fermenting at room temp. Pitchable? It may have been once. The saying states that once you make anything idiot -proof, someone will invent a better idiot. I may have abused the yeast. The brew shop may have abused the yeast. The supplier may have abused the yeast. What I observed was that it was 2 months old and very slow. It got contaminated and cleaned my drains.


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## Linz (7/12/04)

It still followed the myth... 2 months old and activated on the 3rd day(Easter yeast).

It goes that it'll take a day for every month past made date to activate(Atleast for the wyeast packs)

What strain was it???


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## johnno (7/12/04)

Hi there,
about 4-5 weeks ago i wanted to brew a APA clone. I had some WYeast 1056 starters in the fridge from April this year. Started it on Thursday and by Sunday it was at high krausen. Fermented the beer from 1054 to 1012 in about 8 days.
Beer is just 2 weeks bottled and is tasting great.

cheers


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## GSRman (7/12/04)

Ive used both the white labs calif ale II and the wyeast irish ale (1084) the calif ale i pitched a 'megastarter' eg, about 6L... that was for my christmas crippler, the irish ale yeast was a great yeast, loved it, i made 6 stubs from the first starter i made, and used them and then stepped again from one of the 6 into another 6, even after 5 months in the fridge the starters fired up quickly...

I'm about to try one of the new wyeast mega activator style packs, - the american lager, its going to go into my first full wort boil extract beer, first lager, first full wort,


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## sluggerdog (7/12/04)

What liquid yeast would you recommend for a european lager similar to Nastro Azzuro or Becks or something similar, I plan to make a lot of this in the winter to drink next summer..


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## Bionic (7/12/04)

I have read that when keeping yeast you should get rid of the wort that it sitting under and put cooled boiled water. 
E.G
Make up a big starter once done. Poor off the wort fill with water. Give a shake. Let it settle. Poor the water off. Put some more in give it a shake. ect... until the water is fairly clear and no Malt left.. Then bottle and store as usual.. 
Just another way of storing it that I have read in the yeast farming thread


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## Gough (7/12/04)

Slugger,

The Wyeast 'Danish Lager' is good for those commercial 'Euro-lager' styles. My faves in the Wyeast lager yeasts are the Bavarian Lager - great for Bocks and Ocktoberfest styles, and the Czech Pilsner yeast. Both great yeasts IMHO. For what you are doing though, I'd definitely at least try the Danish Lager.

Shawn.


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## sluggerdog (7/12/04)

Thanks Shawn..

I was just having a look around and thought maybe this: Wyeast 2247 European Lager would be a good yeast...

You would recommend the Wyeast 'Danish Lager' over this one though?

Thanx


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## Gough (7/12/04)

I haven't used the 2247. Give it a go. The Danish Lager is good for that 'Euro-lager' style - not a really strongly flavoured yeast, and finishes relatively crisply. It's up to you.

Shawn.


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## Weizguy (7/12/04)

The Danish lager is meant to be a mellow rounded Dortmunder-style. If that's what you're after. I have also headr good things about the Euro lager blend, but no personal experience with it.

Note to LINZ, from above: The yeast was a Platinum release and was White Labs Czech Budejovice yeast. I thought that the story re 1 day for each month from packaging date only applied to lag time with smack packs. If it applied to White Labs pitchable, they don't tell you on the label IIRC. Still have the vial at home. Will check it out.

I do feel a bit cheated. You get a "special" yeast, limited release and Platinum label; so you expect good things. Then the wild yeast get first chop at the wort.
I saved 2 bottles from the batch, and shouldn't have. It'll still be filthy today.

It's a bit late to contact the company, and there is a reasonable amount of doubt about my yeast handling. Not the pitching, but the storage (in and out of the fridge).


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## Gerard_M (7/12/04)

I use the White Labs vials at work & at home. I get about 4500-6000 litres from my 1 vial. Thats good value for $16.50 !
Cheers
Gerard


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## Rubes (7/12/04)

Hey Gerard. You must get buckets of yeast from your brewpub fermentations. Bet you don't have a problem with pitching the homebrew! Do you have to stand well back when you drop the yeast?


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## Gerard_M (7/12/04)

We produce a heap of yeast slurry which makes brewing at home pretty easy, no risk of under-pitching.We take the trub & dump it, then take the cream for the next brew. I take some cream in small buckets for anybody that asks, but that is a messy deal. If I get a request for yeast I generally take my Esky for safe transportation. Forgot the Esky one day and thought it would be OK to get home without it. I was about 1 km from home & I get a red light. I thought I recognised a familiar smell & sure enough the yeast was crawling out from under the lid and all over the seat. A few months later when I sold the van you could still get a whiff of Southern German Lager Yeast. Oh my mate got a few brews out of what was left!
Cheers
Gerard


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## wessmith (7/12/04)

Is that why you sold the beast?? Being followed by a clutch (?) of Schnauzers drippng at the mouth is a bit unsettling?

Wes


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## Jazman (7/12/04)

i love the 2206 for lagers it makes good euro lagers tooo
the danish is ok but i prefer the 2206

and i have good results with the saflager 34/70

i think the danish is a low flocc yeast


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## sluggerdog (7/12/04)

Jazman - Would you say the 2206 or the Danish yeah would make more of a crisper/refreshing finish?


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## Snow (8/12/04)

Hey Sluggerdog, 

I was in Brewers choice in Chapel Hill last week and noticed they have a bunch of new Whitelabs vials in. Probably worth a look to see if there's anything that suits you. They have the limited release Czech Budjevoice Lager, from memory.

- Snow


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## sluggerdog (8/12/04)

Cheers Snow,

David who has just bought the 3 brewers choice stores told me they are upgrading their products to include all the extra goodies that the stores never did have.

Expect to see some changes to these stores over the next few months from what he was saying.

All good news for us hey!

Cheers


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## Tony (9/12/04)

I have used both and like both.
I use the 2206 and as jazman seid, its great.
I wouldnt say it produces a "crisp" beer as it finishes very malty. It is beas for fest beers and bocks.
I used it to make my "smokin GT" and its great.

I use the WLP023 Burton ale and it is wonderfull. I tried the wyeast 1098 british ale a few times but the burton is better. Its smooth and has a wonderfull flavour profile. Every time i have used it to firment a 23 Liter AG brew in a 30 Liter firmenter it has come out the airlock at 20 deg c (its low firm temp)  . Its a top cropper and is messy if it does this. I now install a blow off tube to a coke bottle full of sterile water when i use it.

I have also used the WLP001 heaps of times and is great in just about anything.

I have just recently started using WLP 830 German lager yeast.
This stuff is great. I made an AG lager to 1.050 and it brewed to 1.008 at 10 deg c in 7 days. thats about 83% attenuation. cleared out well to after a couple of weeks in cc.

here is a pic of the WLP 023 with about 20 cm of head space  

Wyeast 2007 is nice to. malty and clean. a bit of age and it gets that crisp pilsner finish to it.
The WLP004 irish ale yeast is another good one for stouts and porters.

I agree with an early post bu Jayse. If you can make a sterile sterter and split the yeast without infecting it they are both great. If not and you want to pour the stuff strait in the the WL teasts are great.

My vote is for the White Lab yeasts though.


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## Bobby (9/12/04)

wlp023 is a really good yeast. mine went off as well and hte results were brilliant. this yeast as the first liquid yeast i used.


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## Jazman (9/12/04)

sorry slugger im not keen on the danish try the bohemiem lager 2124 is my next one to try hte dried yeast came out good and a few brewers like that yeast


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## Jim_Levet (10/12/04)

I just got my ingredients delivered, hopefully 2 brews this weekend.Gerard mentioned that the White Labs 009 Australian Ale yeast is making a comeback. Has anybody used this yeast or know anything about it?


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## Murray (10/12/04)

I really like the WL Dry English Ale yeast at the moment.


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## sluggerdog (10/12/04)

Jazman said:


> sorry slugger im not keen on the danish try the bohemiem lager 2124 is my next one to try hte dried yeast came out good and a few brewers like that yeast


 Is there any reason you do not like the danish Jazman?


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## neonmeate (10/12/04)

isn't the WLP009 just plain olde coopers yeast? might as well culture er up out of a longneck.

someone mentioned the WL budejovice yeast above, just a personal experience but i could not get the sulfur out of the pilsener i made with that stuff, even after 2 months' lagering it still had a boiled egg whiff...
I used WLP830 for my last pils, that barely needs any lagering at all


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## Jim_Levet (10/12/04)

"isn't the WLP009 just plain olde coopers yeast? might as well culture er up out of a longneck."

The understanding I have of the process is that the yeast used in the bottle conditioning is different to the yeast used for fermentation. Also after being packaged , shipped, warehoused, distributed, stuck out on the loading dock, sit it out on display, chuck it in the cool room, how healthy do you think that yeast slurry in the bottom of the bottle is?


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## chiller (10/12/04)

Jim_Levet said:


> "isn't the WLP009 just plain olde coopers yeast? might as well culture er up out of a longneck."
> 
> The understanding I have of the process is that the yeast used in the bottle conditioning is different to the yeast used for fermentation. Also after being packaged , shipped, warehoused, distributed, stuck out on the loading dock, sit it out on display, chuck it in the cool room, how healthy do you think that yeast slurry in the bottom of the bottle is?


 Plain old Cooper's yeast is a bit rough. I'm quiet a confessed yeast a-holic and I have a very health sample in my yeast farm. 

Now I have no idea where you are, I'm in Adelaide - Cooper's home city - and the slurry from a pale ale or sparkling ale correctly handles will give you brewing quantities of yeast within about 5 days maximum.

Because the yeast is a "commercial" yeast doesn't imply it is inferior to any other yeast. I won't comment one way or the other regarding whether the yeast is the fermentation strain but well it should be fairly obvious.  

Steve [at most 4ml.]


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## mje1980 (14/12/04)

G'day fella's,my name is mark, im new on the forum, having just found it today. Anyway, i have relatively easy acces to both of these products, and must say, i only prefer wyeast because, you swell the pack, and can see how active the yeast is. HOWEVER, i also use white labs as well, and find both to be top quality products. My faves are:

White labs burton ale.
White labs Dry english ale.
Wyeast 2565 Kolsch.
Wyeast Czech pils. 

As you can see, no discrimination there, also i use a starter for all my worts, so it doesnt matter about original size.


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