# Faux Lager



## Rambo (27/2/14)

Seen a few comments lately about making faux lagers using Nottingham yeast at low temps. Just wanting to double check if you still need to lager the beer after fermentation. And if you treat the rest of the recipe as if you were making a lager.

Cheers


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## lukiferj (27/2/14)

Hey man. I have ade a few of these lately. Normal lager malt and hop bill. No need for lagering as not required for an ale yeast like Notto. Can be ready to drink from a keg in a week. I use 100% pils malt and a noble hop like hallertau or saaz to around 25 ibu. Half the ibus at 60 mins and the rest at 10 mins.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (27/2/14)

Nope but a couple extra weeks in the fermenter and low, long fermentation temp are mandatory for me.


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## Rambo (27/2/14)

Cheers guys, just what I wanted to hear. Wanting to have a lager on tap but no room for lagering. Can't wait to give it a go.


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## lukiferj (27/2/14)

Good luck man. You'll be surprised how good it tastes. I know I was.


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## Rambo (27/2/14)

Cheers, going to try your recipe with the hallertau. Will cube hop the 10 min addition though as I don't have a chiller.


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## Tahoose (28/2/14)

I might give this a go soon, maybe wait until shed temps are consistently cool as the ferment fridge only has room for one cube. 

My saaz and hercules hops are crying in the freezer as they watch all their friends being used first...


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## mikk (1/3/14)

White Labs WLP036 Alt yeast is also great as a faux lager yeast, IMO.


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## Bribie G (1/3/14)

I once got the temperature setting wrong and a Notto brew dropped to 13 degrees, and it was still hammering away.

For a quick _true _lager, S-189 and S-23 can be used at ale temperature without producing too many esters, and Wyeast Danish Lager 2042 fermented at 13 degrees then raised gradually to ale temperatures is a good bet (most Aussie Megaswills are made thus).

However the above examples do benefit from a couple of weeks of genuine lagering at -1 degree.


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## Rambo (1/3/14)

Great info, cheers guys. Might have to try them all

.


mikk said:


> White Labs WLP036 Alt yeast is also great as a faux lager yeast, IMO.


Does this yeast require lagering? The alt recipe in Brewing Classic Styles says to lager after fermentation. I do love the alt on tap at the Brisbane German Club and wouldn't mind trying my hand at that also.

Or maybe I should just build a keezer so I have more fridge space.


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## Bribie G (1/3/14)

Rambo, seeing as you are in Brisbane you need to expressly get ye unto Craftbrewer / Bacchus and try a tasting paddle, most of their lager offerings are done on S yeasts at 19 degrees, unless they have changed their procedures - Ross will confirm.


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## Rambo (1/3/14)

I'll be heading there next week to stock up, so I'll do that. My main issue is space for lagering, rather than fermentation temps though. Cheers


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## lukiferj (1/3/14)

Where abouts in Brisbane are you Rambo?


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## Rambo (1/3/14)

East Brisbane


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## mikk (3/3/14)

Rambo said:


> .
> Does this yeast require lagering? The alt recipe in Brewing Classic Styles says to lager after fermentation. I do love the alt on tap at the Brisbane German Club and wouldn't mind trying my hand at that also.
> 
> Or maybe I should just build a keezer so I have more fridge space.


Some lagering/cold conditioning with WLP036 is beneficial, as it is with many ale yeasts


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## Bribie G (3/3/14)

The only Alt I ever made tasted like a boys school gym changing room after a couple of weeks. I put the keg to one side and basically forgot about it for four months and it transformed into the Nectar of the Gods.
I didn't use WLP036, it was a Wyeast version but for a faux lager ale I'd be using something far more neutral such as Notto.


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## sp0rk (3/3/14)

Bribie G said:


> I once got the temperature setting wrong and a Notto brew dropped to 13 degrees, and it was still hammering away.
> 
> For a quick _true _lager, S-189 and S-23 can be used at ale temperature without producing too many esters, and Wyeast Danish Lager 2042 fermented at 13 degrees then raised gradually to ale temperatures is a good bet (most Aussie Megaswills are made thus).
> 
> However the above examples do benefit from a couple of weeks of genuine lagering at -1 degree.


Hmmm, I'm tempted to make your Malt Liquor using this procedure...


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## Markbeer (3/3/14)

I remember your complaints of the sulfur given off by wy 1007. Same strain as k97 i think.

Smellsclike a beer fart but then cold conditions to a soft delicate ale.




Bribie G said:


> The only Alt I ever made tasted like a boys school gym changing room after a couple of weeks. I put the keg to one side and basically forgot about it for four months and it transformed into the Nectar of the Gods.
> I didn't use WLP036, it was a Wyeast version but for a faux lager ale I'd be using something far more neutral such as Notto.


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## lukiferj (6/3/14)

Still very cloudy. I brewed this on Sunday morning, pitched Notto on Sunday night and started crash chilling last night. Should hopefully clear up a bit more before then but will be kegging tomorrow afternoon. Will be drinkable but will still clear up a bit over the next week or so. Tasting pretty good already.


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## technobabble66 (6/3/14)

Looks good (though cloudy)
So quick!
What temps were you keeping the fermenter at? (& CCing)?


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## lukiferj (6/3/14)

technobabble66 said:


> Looks good (though cloudy)
> So quick!
> What temps were you keeping the fermenter at? (& CCing)?


Was fermented at 17 degrees. Currently sitting at 1 degree to crash chill. Will not be perfectly clear by tomorrow but will be much better in a week or so. Will post some more pics up as it clears.


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## technobabble66 (6/3/14)

That's "low"?
I just did a PA 1056 at 18°C - does 1°C make that big a difference?

I thought the faux lagers had Notto chugging along at 14-15°C. Is that correct or is it not necessary to drop it so low?
(& how much longer would it take the notto to do the job at that temp, do you think?).

I'm tempted to have a crack at a faux lager soon, so i'm just quickly checking some of the basic details - namely the whole temp thing 

Any other faux lager recipes out there to recommend??
Thanks!

PS: keen to see how that clears up, lukiferj !


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## mckenry (6/3/14)

lukiferj said:


> Still very cloudy. I brewed this on Sunday morning, pitched Notto on Sunday night and started crash chilling last night. Should hopefully clear up a bit more before then but will be kegging tomorrow afternoon. Will be drinkable but will still clear up a bit over the next week or so. Tasting pretty good already.


Seriously? Thats only had 3 days at 17° then crash chill. It cant be finished properly :blink:


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## lukiferj (6/3/14)

technobabble66 said:


> That's "low"?
> I just did a PA 1056 at 18°C - does 1°C make that big a difference?
> 
> I thought the faux lagers had Notto chugging along at 14-15°C. Is that correct or is it not necessary to drop it so low?
> ...


I keep it at 17 as it seems to chug along nicely at that temp and I like the results. I haven't run it any lower so couldn't comment but I will try a bit lower the next time and compare the difference. I suspect it would add a bit of time to the ferment. Probably not too much though with Notto.


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## lukiferj (6/3/14)

mckenry said:


> Seriously? Thats only had 3 days at 17° then crash chill. It cant be finished properly :blink:


It's dropped from 1.045 to 1.010 in 3 days. I was expecting it to hit 1.011 according to the recipe. It takes almost another day to get it down from 17 to 1 degree though. I have had Notto finish many times in 3 or 4 days, particularly in beers with an OG lower than 1.050. Will continue to check the gravity but I will be kegging so no issues with bottle bombs. I would normally leave it for a few more days but wanted to get something into the keg asap and have done this before with good results.


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## mckenry (6/3/14)

lukiferj said:


> It's dropped from 1.045 to 1.010 in 3 days. I was expecting it to hit 1.011 according to the recipe. It takes almost another day to get it down from 17 to 1 degree though. I have had Notto finish many times in 3 or 4 days, particularly in beers with an OG lower than 1.050. Will continue to check the gravity but I will be kegging so no issues with bottle bombs. I would normally leave it for a few more days but wanted to get something into the keg asap and have done this before with good results.


OK. If youve had good results, thats all that matters. There is more to fermentation than just hitting FG. Yeast needs to clean-up its byproducts, including diacetyl. A lack of diacetyl doesnt mean the other byproducts are gone.
I'm all for packaging when its ready. It really shits me when people have hard and fast rules such as 2 weeks primary, 4 days secondary, 5 weeks in the bottle etc.
I'm just shocked thats its ready after only 3 days fermenting.


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## lukiferj (6/3/14)

mckenry said:


> OK. If youve had good results, thats all that matters. There is more to fermentation than just hitting FG. Yeast needs to clean-up its byproducts, including diacetyl. A lack of diacetyl doesnt mean the other byproducts are gone.
> I'm all for packaging when its ready. It really shits me when people have hard and fast rules such as 2 weeks primary, 4 days secondary, 5 weeks in the bottle etc.
> I'm just shocked thats its ready after only 3 days fermenting.



Completely agree mate. Would not even contemplate it with another yeast but have had very good results with Notto. Each yeast is different and each ferment can be different too. Only way to be sure it to keep measuring. 

Would have preferred to brew on Friday to give it a few extra days but just didn't get time. There are plenty of things that shit me about hard and fast rules too. 

I normally leave in the fermenter for up to a week before crash chilling, even if it has finished in a few days. For anyone who was going to try it, I would recommend they do that at least initially and take measurements to ensure that fermentation is finished. Obviously this is extremely important if bottling.


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## Tahoose (6/3/14)

For some saf s-189 yesterday so I figure I'll just use that at ale temps rather than using notto, I'm holding off yet though as I get my sack of pilsner malt next weekend


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## Rambo (7/3/14)

Just brewed your recipe (well close enough, didn't have enough hallertau so ended up about 50/50 hallertau/saaz) , cheers lukiferj. Can't wait to get it into the fv and onto my taste buds.


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## lukiferj (8/3/14)

Nice one Rambo. I didn't get a chance to keg last night but should do today.


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## lukiferj (8/3/14)

Not a great quality picture but this is from yesterday morning. Starting to clear up nicely. Is actually quite a bit clearer than it looks but the glass condensed up.


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## NewtownClown (8/3/14)

"Faux" Lager? Isn't that a Cream Ale?


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## Rambo (8/3/14)

NewtownClown said:


> "Faux" Lager? Isn't that a Cream Ale?


Yes, just looked it up. Though seems a cream ale is more like an American lager rather than a European lager.
Cheers


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## Topher (13/3/14)

Is there a wyeast strain that compares to notto?


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## sp0rk (13/3/14)

Topher said:


> Is there a wyeast strain that compares to notto?


WLP-039 East Midlands Ale


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## Topher (13/3/14)

sp0rk said:


> WLP-039 East Midlands Ale


Cheers sp0rk.


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