# Anzac Challenge



## GMK (18/8/09)

Hi All Fellow Brewers...

For next years Tanunda Show - we are thinking of adding the ANZAC Challenge.
Description is below....

We were wondering how well our Idea will be received and what you guys think...  
All feedback welcome.. 
Now where did I put my Flame Suit - forgot to buy another one as the last was burned to a cinder.... h34r: 

Happy for sponsors to come forward and anyone can enter theh Tanunda Show 





ANZAC Challenge ~ Tanunda Show ~ 13 Mar 2010

Prologue ~
Carving their lives out of a harsh, sunburnt land early Australians laid the foundation for our nation through their hard work, blood, sweat and beers. Australia has always been at the forefront of ingenuity and resourcefulness; the early settlers adapting and shaping the knowledge and skills they brought from their homeland to suit their new environment. During WWI the legend of the ANZAC spirit was born, a bond between Australian and New Zealand soldiers encompassing endurance, courage, ingenuity, good humour, and, of course, mate ship. These qualities are an integral part of our psyche and it is with this in mind that the idea of the ANZAC Challenge was born. When local home brewers, Luke Willis & Ken Jermey got together to discuss the latest example of yet another American Pale Ale clone produced by an Australian micro-brewery the spark of an idea fizzled through their hazy minds. Australian and New Zealand in recent years are producing some of the New Worlds best hop varieties, we have access to great locally produced malt and we as beer drinkers are yearning for a beer to call our own. The debate of what is an Australian beer is one that echoes through many a watering hole across the land.

The ANZAC challenge as a part of the 2010 Tanunda Show Home Brew Competition encourages home brewers to dig deep and use their own ingenuity to create an ANZAC beer. The beer must be brewed with Australian or New Zealand ingredients, but most importantly it must be the essence of the ANZAC spirit; endurance, courage, ingenuity, good humour and mate ship. It is our desire that home brewers across the country will embrace this idea and start to produce beers that rival the Americans in intensity and push the boundaries the traditionalists in Europe dont dare. It is our even loftier goal that Australia carves out an entirely new beer style that home brewers around the world will be trying to emulate.

Category	Styles (Beers can only be entered in the listed Styles avail. from the website)
ANZAC CHALLENGE (AG Service)

Any Style but base style must be identified.
Only using Aus Ingredients including:~Aussie/NZ hops, grains, adjuncts & yeast.

(Must Include the recipe for publishing)

ANZAC CHALLENGE (Ration Pack)

Any Style but base style must be identified.
Only using Aus/NZ KITS (Coopers, Morgans, Black Rock, Cascade) & Aussie/NZ hops, grains, adjuncts & yeast.

(Must Include the recipe for publishing)


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## DJR (18/8/09)

I think it's a good idea.

By Aussie yeast we are limited to Coopers or Mauribrew readily available dry yeast only?


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## GMK (18/8/09)

Wyeast do make an Aussie ALe yeast...

And i think whitelabs do...

But you can cultivate from Coopers...


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## mika (18/8/09)

There are laws about using the ANZAC name for commercial gain, which still needs to be considered even if the show is run as 'not-for-profit'
I'd be running it past the members at the local RSL and make sure you're not stepping on any toes. Few people in Perth have gotten into strife with this in the past.


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## bullsneck (18/8/09)

Trans-Tasman Tipple, perhaps...


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## Bribie G (19/8/09)

A few months ago there was some discussion on the fourm about what a distinct modern Australian beer style would be like - our equivalent of the American Pale Amber Brown styles that were re-invented in the 1970s and as we know have taken off well.

At that time on the forum, New Zealand hops were mentioned as maybe appropriate as we are just over the ditch from each other. Since then I have brewed a few 'Kiwi Gold' brews to explore a newish style showcasing NZ hops. However apart from the hops, the other ingredients have been Aus sourced so, as such, these beers are definitely Anzac. However I did include a fair bit of maize as they produce a fair amount of that in NZ ( Hobbits getting lost in the corn field  )

Example:

4000 BB Pale Pilsener
1000 Polenta

66 degrees 90 min

30 NZ Cascade 90 min
20 Bzaaz 10 min

500 Sugar

Mauribrew Lager Yeast fermented 15 degrees, lagered 10 days

Turned out a golden lager with nice hoppiness, some grain, clean finish although a little sweet and nice quaffer. 


Something along those lines perhaps? I'll certainly whack up a brew and send a few bottles down for the showl
:icon_cheers:


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## Murcluf (19/8/09)

GMK said:


> When local home brewers, Luke Willis & Ken Jermey got together to discuss the latest example of yet another American Pale Ale clone produced by an Australian micro-brewery the spark of an idea fizzled through their hazy minds.


Oi....!!!!! I was there too, you know at that fabled brew day at your place when Luke brought up the idea. With you and all your bloody glory hunting you just can't help yourself can you. Can't you remeber or did have a few too many..... :unsure: mmmmm who had the hazy mind....(did I put the hops in or not?) :unsure: Must say I'm pretty impressed you did actually credited Luke with being there in your speel. I think you also mean fizzed not fizzled which which was what your memory of the day has done :icon_drool2: 

Love your work GMKitty......


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## brendo (19/8/09)

mika said:


> There are laws about using the ANZAC name for commercial gain, which still needs to be considered even if the show is run as 'not-for-profit'
> I'd be running it past the members at the local RSL and make sure you're not stepping on any toes. Few people in Perth have gotten into strife with this in the past.




+1 on this - the use of ANZAC to promote ANYTHING is taken very very seriously (as it should be), so before you go any further with this one, I would strongly urge you to make contact with the RSL and find out what the go is.

edit: not wanting to rain on your parade... I like the idea of the comp as a concept, just gotta be careful with the marketing of it.


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## brettprevans (19/8/09)

you'll need to run it by the *STATE * RSL not the local RSL.

Good idea, except that I think a donation to the State or local RSL will better your chances at them saying yes. or making free beer avilable to the local diggers.


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## jbirbeck (19/8/09)

GMK said:


> It is our desire that home brewers across the country will embrace this idea and start to produce beers that rival the Americans in intensity and push the boundaries the traditionalists in Europe don't dare. It is our even loftier goal that Australia carves out an entirely new beer style that home brewers around the world will be trying to emulate.



great idea and I'd be in. 

I'd interpret what you want and brew in that guideline but for wider commentary thoughts on the following:

- Are we talking rivalling intensity such as the overhopping of American beers, or intensity in blending hops, malt and YEAST? My vote is for the second, the first is a carbon copy of APA's with Aussie/NZ hops...

- Re yeasts - should be we limiting ourselves to aussie developed yeasts or should be use yeasts such as Biere de Garde and Saison that would be ideal for use in our climate without temp control issues??

- Re pushing boundaries, would this be adopting traditional techniques in new styles or including crazy new things in old styles or both?


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## Luka (21/8/09)

Murcluf said:


> Oi....!!!!! I was there too, you know at that fabled brew day at your place when Luke brought up the idea. With you and all your bloody glory hunting you just can't help yourself can you. Can't you remeber or did have a few too many..... :unsure: mmmmm who had the hazy mind....(did I put the hops in or not?) :unsure: Must say I'm pretty impressed you did actually credited Luke with being there in your speel. I think you also mean fizzed not fizzled which which was what your memory of the day has done :icon_drool2:
> 
> Love your work GMKitty......




Easy there tiger, or should that be Meerkat.

I wrote the spiel, not GMK and sorry I did forget that you were there that day when we were discussing the idea. So, don't jump down his throat too quickly. I asked GMK to post this here because I didn't have the document at home with me at the time.

In regards to the other comments, I take fully on board what you guys have suggested about the RSL. I certainly don't want to put any noses out of joint, so we'll discuss the best way forward. In terms of yeast, I think we can be more flexible with that one, there's no Aussie Lager yeast that I'm aware of, the main focus is on the malts and hops and the style. We want people to create beers that don't necessarily adhere to the BJCP guidelines, (the horror!), but rather sum up the ANZAC spirit and are for want of a better word "Australian". If it's big and hoppy thats ok, if it's easy drinking for after a hard days work, ala a certain advert, that's cool too. I want to encourage my fellow brewers to be inventive and push the envelope.

Please contact me regarding specific enquiries, GMK and I posted this here to gather feedback and test the level of interest for the idea. No flamers please, just constructive comments and feedback.

Cheers,
Luka
*Tanunda Show Home Brew Comp
Convenor*


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## brettprevans (24/8/09)

keeping with anzac spirit, we should be able to have any ingredients from UK, etc as the anzacs were a smart bunch, aquiring kit from other regiments when needed! 

its a great idea, esp as the Aust & NZ Govts are talking about re-forming the ANZAC relationship.


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## drsmurto (24/8/09)

GMK said:


> Wyeast do make an Aussie ALe yeast...
> 
> And i think whitelabs do...
> 
> But you can cultivate from Coopers...




Last time i checked, Wyeast does not do an Aussie Ale yeast - Linky

You need to have more of a think about the yeast as i see this as the weak part of your comp. 

You are restricting brewers to Coopers or something that can be found under the lid of a kit (and Whitelabs which isnt available within cooee of the town where the comp is being held.....)

Where did Coopers yeast originate? Is it a native strain or one that was brought here from the old country?


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## enoch (24/8/09)

GMK said:


> Category	Styles (Beers can only be entered in the listed Styles avail. from the website)
> ANZAC CHALLENGE (AG Service)
> Any Style but base style must be identified.
> Only using Aus Ingredients including:~Aussie/NZ hops, grains, adjuncts & yeast.



Without taking the time to look through all of the available styles but the use of the eponymous biscuit or its ingredients should be allowed or encouraged. I'm thinking toasted oats and golden syrup.


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## peas_and_corn (24/8/09)

So this comp will essentially be beers of any style competing, as long as Australian ingredients are used? I forsee many difficulties when it comes to judging- how can you determine what is better out of an imperial stout and a pilsener?


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## petesbrew (24/8/09)

I think it's a great idea if it takes off, re: use of the "Anzac" word.
To make a decent beer out of recultured Coopers or kit yeast sounds like a great challenge. Hope there's a NSW dropoff point?


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## BoilerBoy (24/8/09)

It was the WYeast 1026 Cask Ale that was described as being "suitable for IPA's and Australian Ales'

The "ANZAC Challenge" sounds like a good idea, but I agree with both P&C and DR S - it needs to be streamlined, particularly if you are looking to connect or promote the use of the term "ANZAC" which lends itself to ideas of tradition more than modern innovation, which I think is also a great idea so why not incorporate 2 categories reflecting both past and present?

Cheers,
BB


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## Back Yard Brewer (24/8/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> So this comp will essentially be beers of any style competing, as long as Australian ingredients are used? I forsee many difficulties when it comes to judging- how can you determine what is better out of an imperial stout and a pilsener?




I would think it would be like any other comp. The one that finishes with the highest points value after judging would be the winner. I reckon all the Anzac Challenge beer could still go up against every other beer in its own category, the beer would be marked as the Anzac Challenge and then still be eligible on points to take out the Anzac Class.

I think that's what I meant <_< 

BYB


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## peas_and_corn (24/8/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> I would think it would be like any other comp. The one that finishes with the highest points value after judging would be the winner. I reckon all the Anzac Challenge beer could still go up against every other beer in its own category, the beer would be marked as the Anzac Challenge and then still be eligible on points to take out the Anzac Class.
> 
> I think that's what I meant <_<
> 
> BYB



Hypothetically- A sweet stout and a red ale both get 45 points. How is the winner decided? It's very difficult when comparing beers of different styles to determine which is "best", you're comparing apples and oranges, to use an overused phrase. The reason why there are categories is because each beer has one set of guidelines to aim at, which ensures ease of judging.


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## Back Yard Brewer (24/8/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Hypothetically- A sweet stout and a red ale both get 45 points. How is the winner decided? It's very difficult when comparing beers of different styles to determine which is "best", you're comparing apples and oranges, to use an overused phrase. The reason why there are categories is because each beer has one set of guidelines to aim at, which ensures ease of judging.



What normally happens if there is a draw :unsure: in a category in other comps or for that matter any draw?

BYB


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## bconnery (24/8/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Hypothetically- A sweet stout and a red ale both get 45 points. How is the winner decided? It's very difficult when comparing beers of different styles to determine which is "best", you're comparing apples and oranges, to use an overused phrase. The reason why there are categories is because each beer has one set of guidelines to aim at, which ensures ease of judging.



This already happens with a BOS show round anyway though, it comes down the overall impression the judges have of the beer. 

There are also countback procedures in place, assuming the comp is based on BJCP, or they can develop their own. Flavour and overall impression are generally the most common.


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## drsmurto (24/8/09)

bconnery said:


> This already happens with a BOS show round anyway though, it comes down the overall impression the judges have of the beer.
> 
> There are also countback procedures in place, assuming the comp is based on BJCP, or they can develop their own. Flavour and overall impression are generally the most common.



And judges bias towards a particular style..... 

Shit, did i say that out loud?


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## GMK (24/8/09)

DrSmurto said:


> And judges bias towards a particular style.....
> 
> Shit, did i say that out loud?



Yes Mate - that style will be AUstralian....

You have freedom to interpret and create - if you think you can make a Bulli Beef/Spam Oat MilkStout - then make one...
Shit, did I say that out load................Dam.....

just don't make the Vegemite Old Ale....


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## drsmurto (24/8/09)

GMK said:


> Yes Mate - that style will be AUstralian....
> 
> You have freedom to interpret and create - if you think you can make a Bulli Beef/Spam Oat MilkStout - then make one...
> Shit, did I say that out load................Dam.....
> ...



Kenny - any thoughts about the yeast dilemna? 

And what style is australian? I thought you said it could be any style?


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## raven19 (24/8/09)

I shall make an entry for this for sure.

Will follow this thread with interest.


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## WarmBeer (24/8/09)

Just be careful not to pour the beer under-arm. The kiwi's still get a bit shirty about that <ducks>


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## Luka (25/8/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Kenny - any thoughts about the yeast dilemna?
> 
> And what style is australian? I thought you said it could be any style?



You're right Smurto, the yeast is a tricky one. I think we will have to either refer to historical data for what yeats were used "back in the day" and where they came from, or open it up so that the yeast can reflect the base style. To be perfectly honest I don't give a stuff what yeast is used, it's more about the malt and hops and overall style. And seeing as I'm the convenor..... 

The whole Australian style thing is rather subjective and cannot be determined using BJCP or AABC guidelines, which incedently is what we are using to judge the other categories on, AABC that is. Beers in the ANZAC ctaegory can be judged on their base style, so as to sidestep the issue of judging a Pilsner against and Imperial Stout, but with regards to the overall style issue it is up to the judges and organisers on the day to make that call, same as any other comp as far as I can tell. Guidelines are just that, guidelines. It is still up to the judges to determine if they believe a beer fits them or not and how flexible they are within those guidelines, if that mkaes any sense at all. :unsure:


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## drsmurto (25/8/09)

Luka said:


> You're right Smurto, the yeast is a tricky one. I think we will have to either refer to historical data for what yeats were used "back in the day" and where they came from, or open it up so that the yeast can reflect the base style. To be perfectly honest I don't give a stuff what yeast is used, it's more about the malt and hops and overall style. And seeing as I'm the convenor.....
> 
> The whole Australian style thing is rather subjective and cannot be determined using BJCP or AABC guidelines, which incedently is what we are using to judge the other categories on, AABC that is. Beers in the ANZAC ctaegory can be judged on their base style, so as to sidestep the issue of judging a Pilsner against and Imperial Stout, but with regards to the overall style issue it is up to the judges and organisers on the day to make that call, same as any other comp as far as I can tell. Guidelines are just that, guidelines. It is still up to the judges to determine if they believe a beer fits them or not and how flexible they are within those guidelines, if that mkaes any sense at all. :unsure:



Exactly the response i was after Luke! 

With the potential popularity of this class in the show you may find yourself judging the whole lot! :icon_drunk:


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## crundle (25/8/09)

Not sure how it would work in practice, but is there any way to involve people from the RSL in the judging - perhaps either one of them sitting in with the judges in this event, or perhaps a separate category, ie as voted by the RSL on how well the beer encompasses the 'ANZAC spirit'?

Crundle


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## jbirbeck (25/8/09)

crundle said:


> Not sure how it would work in practice, but is there any way to involve people from the RSL in the judging - perhaps either one of them sitting in with the judges in this event, or perhaps a separate category, ie as voted by the RSL on how well the beer encompasses the 'ANZAC spirit'?
> 
> Crundle



special comments from guest judges...I like it.


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## brettprevans (25/8/09)

source some fresh poppies for an anzac d-day beer. :wacko: 

ive got a cracker of an idea. is it open to interstate brewers?


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## Luka (25/8/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Exactly the response i was after Luke!
> 
> With the potential popularity of this class in the show you may find yourself judging the whole lot! :icon_drunk:



I'll take one for the team if need be :icon_drunk:


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## GMK (25/8/09)

crundle said:


> Not sure how it would work in practice, but is there any way to involve people from the RSL in the judging - perhaps either one of them sitting in with the judges in this event, or perhaps a separate category, ie as voted by the RSL on how well the beer encompasses the 'ANZAC spirit'?
> 
> Crundle


I just bought that Idea up today with Luka - ie we get the president of the Tanunda RSL to be Guest ANZAC CHallenge Judge - after all - he is an ANZAC.... 

As far as I know it is Open to interstate Brewers - but you have to organise your own freight over here...

Yeast - i checked on the Wyeast site - was sure they had an Australian Yeast but could not find one....my prefereance is recultured Coopers Yeast or we nominate say 1026 which I think is the closest to Aus yeast.

DrSmurto & BYB - as Luka said - alot of styles say American Hops etc - so an ANZAC beer will be out of style.

Got asked today if a local who grows his Own CHinook can use them as AUstralian Hops...I think NOT h34r: 
But then i am not the convenor - only assistant worker bee...Judge CO-ordinator - gopher - entry pick eruper - prize co-ordinator - beer judge - etc.....


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## Luka (25/8/09)

GMK said:


> Got asked today if a local who grows his Own CHinook can use them as AUstralian Hops...I think NOT h34r:
> But then i am not the convenor - only assistant worker bee...Judge CO-ordinator - gopher - entry pick eruper - prize co-ordinator - beer judge - etc.....



Who said you could be all those things?? <_<


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## GMK (25/8/09)

Luka said:


> Who said you could be all those things?? <_<



Dam ...thats right there more....

Forgot to mention Sponsorship Assistant Organiser as well... h34r:


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## buttersd70 (26/8/09)

GMK said:


> Got asked today if a local who grows his Own CHinook can use them as AUstralian Hops...I think NOT h34r:



So, would that also preclude any of the commercially available NZ hop varieties that haven't been modified from their original us/european cultivars?


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## Peter Wadey (26/8/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Last time i checked, Wyeast does not do an Aussie Ale yeast - Linky
> 
> You need to have more of a think about the yeast as i see this as the weak part of your comp.
> 
> ...




Smurto,

Whitelabs WLP009 Australian Ale was available as a Platinum strain in Jan & Feb of this year. If it holds the same slot for next year, then it would be in time for the comp.

If subs are allowed, consider: WLP023 Burton Ale

No shop close? Get it via Australia Post Express Post !

Where there's a will, there's a way.
Peter


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## drsmurto (26/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> So, would that also preclude any of the commercially available NZ hop varieties that haven't been modified from their original us/european cultivars?



:lol: 

If we used a german grain how would the judges even know? Or a bittering hop from the US or Europe?


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## brettprevans (26/8/09)

Am I being dense or can anyone else find the link to the site with all the T&C?


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## drsmurto (26/8/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> Am I being dense or can anyone else find the link to the site with all the T&C?



There isnt a website. Its a small, local comp in the Barossa Valley run by Luka from the Barossa Brewing Club.


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## brettprevans (26/8/09)

GMK said:


> Category	Styles (Beers can only be entered in the listed Styles avail. from the website)


see I read GMKs OP and thought there was a website


edit:

no worries. so how many entrys are we allowed


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## np1962 (26/8/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> Am I being dense or can anyone else find the link to the site with all the T&C?


CM2
This is a link to the details from this years comp.http://www.tanundashow.org.au/main_homebrewedbeer.htm

Nothing there about next year or the Anzac Category.

Cheers
Nige


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/8/09)

NigeP62 said:


> CM2
> This is a link to the details from this years comp.http://www.tanundashow.org.au/main_homebrewedbeer.htm
> 
> Nothing there about next year or the Anzac Category.
> ...




As for the BJCP certified judges, that will most likely change. Unless of course we can send a Limo to pick up and return <_< everything clashed because of dates last year so who knows what may happen this year. But IMO and it is just that, I would like to see at least one cert judge. Boy did I have a hell of a time trying to judge last year  Heres the guidlines now go for it, in a manner of speaking that is.

Back Yard Brewer


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## drsmurto (26/8/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> As for the BJCP certified judges, that will most likely change. Unless of course we can send a Limo to pick up and return <_< everything clashed because of dates last year so who knows what may happen this year. But IMO and it is just that, I would like to see at least one cert judge. Boy did I have a hell of a time trying to judge last year  Heres the guidlines now go for it, in a manner of speaking that is.
> 
> Back Yard Brewer



Luke had to make you judge last year. As a steward you were drinking the beer before the judges got it!


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/8/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Luke had to make you judge last year. As a steward you were drinking the beer before the judges got it!




Nup, not the most professional display I have put on  but I was new to the game of Stewarding / Judging. Will make my own rules for next year........ stay away from the Belgian and Strong Ale class. 
Not drinking just tasting.


BYB


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## jayse (26/8/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> snipped>
> ......Unless of course we can send a Limo to pick up and return



I like this idea or any idea that does not involve me driving, one possiblty although not great but doable would be a pick up from gawler train station and dropped back. Anyway thats proberly subject for a different thread.

The way i see this working is having a box on every entry form in which you tick if you used all australian/NZ ingredients. Each beer gets judged in its correct style section then the highest scoring beer with the boxed ticked is the winner. You could even take top 5 boxed ticked beers and have a BOS style round maybe.

Personally I think yeast should be open to anything.

One problem I see with judging a specific round of these beers is there is no guidelines other than the base style, guidelines are about what a beer should taste like and have nothing to do with what ingredients should be used, I have said it before if you can hit the style guidelines out of dirty dishwashing water and stinging nettles then so be it. Its what it tastes like, a judge has no need to know how it was made.


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## brettprevans (26/8/09)

well Wayne stipulated in OP, that the recipe must be included for publishing. so by providing the recipe you are by defualt agreeing that all Aust/NA ingredients are being used? (assuming that people dont stray and are upfront about straying).

no style guides might be interesting. hence my question about how many entries. normally 2 per style. but there are no styles?


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/8/09)

jayse said:


> One problem I see with judging a specific round of these beers is there is no guidelines other than the base style, guidelines are about what a beer should taste like and have nothing to do with what ingredients should be used, I have said it before if you can hit the style guidelines out of dirty dishwashing water and stinging nettles then so be it. Its what it tastes like, a judge has no need to know how it was made.



That is one thing I have discussed with many brewers over time. Yes there are some guidelines that say you should use this you should use that blah blah blah. In the end (yes jayse) as long as the judge regards it to be in style who am I to argue. Makes me sit back and think whether I need so many hops and specialties. 

Forget who it was, may have been the NSW or QLD state brewing champion from a snippet on the ANHC website, Quote" just keep it simple" End quote

BYB


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## Luka (27/8/09)

jayse said:


> The way i see this working is having a box on every entry form in which you tick if you used all australian/NZ ingredients. Each beer gets judged in its correct style section then the highest scoring beer with the boxed ticked is the winner. You could even take top 5 boxed ticked beers and have a BOS style round maybe.



I like that point Jayse. We're flying blind a little with this idea as no-one, at least to my knowledge, has done it before. I'm sure we will look back afterwards and say "We could have done this, or that...". I was leaning to judging it in the way you've mentioned there and if we find that it doesn't work, well we'll change it, simple as that. It's certainly not "my way or the highway", Im glad people have expressed interest in the idea and are offering up their thoughts and opinions and if it provokes a little debate, all the better I say! 
The issue this year with judging was timing with the long weekend and that's fine. Unfortunately next year's show will again be the weekend after the long weekend in March and I have to keep the show committee happy, as we're not an independent comp. These details are still being worked out and whomever is available to judge is more than welcome, if not, no biggy.


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## LLoyd (27/8/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> That is one thing I have discussed with many brewers over time. Yes there are some guidelines that say you should use this you should use that blah blah blah. In the end (yes jayse) as long as the judge regards it to be in style who am I to argue. Makes me sit back and think whether I need so many hops and specialties.
> 
> Forget who it was, may have been the NSW or QLD state brewing champion from a snippet on the ANHC website, Quote" just keep it simple" End quote
> 
> BYB


 :icon_offtopic: kinda..
Funny I should read this tonight, cos a few minutes ago I was trying to build a recipe, but....
Say I had a cracker Kolsh, only it wasn't QUITE a kolsh (wrong yeast RIGHT flavour) and I felt the need to plug some holes in the flavour profile with a touch of some hops that were SO FAR out of style as to be kinda funny, who's to say it's not a KOLSH? We're talking minute amounts of said hop but is it DISHONEST nonetheless?

Lloydie


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## Darren (27/8/09)

Wy 1388 is great substitute for Coopers yeast plus it makes a GREAT starter for a real Belgian ale.

cheers

Darren


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## jayse (27/8/09)

Luka said:


> snipped>
> .....I like that point Jayse. We're flying blind a little with this idea as no-one



There is a idea in it for sure, I can imagine you might have to reel GMK in now and again though with some of his ideas :lol: 
I like the tick the box idea, it ends up being what ever beer scores the highest in the whole comp which used all australian and new zealand ingredients.
You can make any style with local ingredients.



LloydieP said:


> :icon_offtopic: kinda..
> Funny I should read this tonight, cos a few minutes ago I was trying to build a recipe, but....
> Say I had a cracker Kolsh, only it wasn't QUITE a kolsh (wrong yeast RIGHT flavour) and I felt the need to plug some holes in the flavour profile with a touch of some hops that were SO FAR out of style as to be kinda funny, who's to say it's not a KOLSH? We're talking minute amounts of said hop but is it DISHONEST nonetheless?
> 
> Lloydie



doesn't matter how you make it, if you can strain out your grandpa's gardening pants and make it taste like kolsch well cool. :lol: :super:


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## jbirbeck (28/8/09)

Darren said:


> Wy 1388 is great substitute for Coopers yeast plus it makes a GREAT starter for a real Belgian ale.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



i agree on this one, Coopers and Belgian yeasts have a bit in common...

But for me yeast shouldn't make up the 'style'. While yeasts can add a lot to the flavour you could use a yeast not suited to a particular style and still be 'in style'. So the use of uses that would be ideal for the climate would be the go in my opinion, those that can produce nice beers at higher temps (belg saison, Biere de Garde and the farmhouse selections)...otherwise coopers and 1026 is good


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## Luka (28/8/09)

jayse said:


> I can imagine you might have to reel GMK in now and again though with some of his ideas :lol:



What do you mean now and again.... :lol:


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## Murcluf (28/8/09)

> (jayse @ Aug 27 2009, 11:27 PM)
> There is a idea in it for sure, I can imagine you might have to reel GMK in now and again though with some of his ideas



As long as the chain is short and the choker is tight and the muzzle is on, we should be right, but Lord help us if breaks loose and gets out amongst to poor unsuspecting public it'll be carnage absolute carnage....  and I ain't staying back to clean up the mess either :lol: 


QUOTE 


> doesn't matter how you make it, if you can strain out your grandpa's gardening pants and make it taste like kolsch well cool.



So you have had one of Kenny's beer before then.... :lol:


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## GMK (28/8/09)

Murcluf said:


> As long as the chain is short and the choker is tight and the muzzle is on, we should be right, but Lord help us if breaks loose and gets out amongst to poor unsuspecting public it'll be carnage absolute carnage....  and I ain't staying back to clean up the mess either :lol:
> 
> 
> QUOTE
> ...



That cahin and chocker is known as the MeerKat Control Chain - looks like you got off it again...

LOL.....you know what they say - Once an Apprentice....Always a............


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## Murcluf (28/8/09)

GMK said:


> That cahin and chocker is known as the MeerKat Control Chain - looks like you got off it again...
> 
> LOL.....you know what they say - Once an Apprentice....Always a............



That's right GRAND MASTER KENNY (as you like to call yourself) I must admit you have got me there, I am only a learner trying to learn how to make a good beer. If that makes me a lowly apprentice in your eye's then so be it. My trophy cabinet isn't full of shiney silverware like yours is and I don't have the national notoriety that you have. I've never produced an award winning Barley Wine or a nice bar with a 6 tap font. But hey I'm always open to try something new, and am willing to learn from the thousands of brewers out there who are far better then I will ever be and I'm OK with that.

But hey to be as good as you like to say you are GRAND MASTER KENNY it must be very very lonely up their at the top where you are.
You inspire all lowly apprentice around the world like myself to reach out to the dizzy heights of your brewing excellence. 

I can only ever wish to be as good as you......GRAND MASTER KENNY


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## Back Yard Brewer (29/8/09)

Murcluf said:


> That's right GRAND MASTER KENNY (as you like to call yourself) I must admit you have got me there, I am only a learner trying to learn how to make a good beer. If that makes me a lowly apprentice in your eye's then so be it. My trophy cabinet isn't full of shiney silverware like yours is and I don't have the national notoriety that you have. I've never produced an award winning Barley Wine or a nice bar with a 6 tap font. But hey I'm always open to try something new, and am willing to learn from the thousands of brewers out there who are far better then I will ever be and I'm OK with that.
> 
> But hey to be as good as you like to say you are GRAND MASTER KENNY it must be very very lonely up their at the top where you are.
> You inspire all lowly apprentice around the world like myself to reach out to the dizzy heights of your brewing excellence.
> ...




h34r: Reckon it may be time to duck for cover  Better still fellows how about you both get in the ring and slug it out. Could use the YOUTUBE for coverage. May even enjoy a beer if someone can go the distance :lol: 

Can we now get back on topic? ( Bloody apprentices ) 

BYB


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## KHB (29/8/09)

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT


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## jbirbeck (6/10/09)

Any update on this ANZAC challenge? I'm keen on doing something for the comp and would be extra keen to go ANZAC on the entries.


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## GMK (6/10/09)

Update.

we have secured sponsorship for the ANZAC Challenge so it will be going ahead...


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## peas_and_corn (6/10/09)

Is it Arnotts?


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## bum (6/10/09)

Kirin?


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## jbirbeck (7/10/09)

GMK said:


> Update.
> 
> we have secured sponsorship for the ANZAC Challenge so it will be going ahead...



Legendary. :beer:


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## drsmurto (7/10/09)

GMK said:


> Update.
> 
> we have secured sponsorship for the ANZAC Challenge so it will be going ahead...



the makers of Chux :lol:


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## jbirbeck (7/10/09)

It looks like I'll be up there for the show so would be keen to help judge/steward in classes I'm not entering of course... B) Plenty of other things for my wife and kids to do while I contribute :lol: 

PM if you want the help...


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## tdh (7/10/09)

I've brewed an Anzac Ale before using Anzac Biscuit ingredients.

Ingredients for Anzac Biscuits are as follows -

plain flour 
rolled oats 
desiccated coconut 
brown sugar 
golden syrup 

Maybe formulate the recipe using 5% of each (maybe only 2-3% of the golden syrup, could be too strong a flavour) and the balance an AUS pale malt, hopped with any AUS or NZ hop. Use the recultured Coopers Pale Ale yeast or the dried gear from under their lids.

It couldn't get any more ANZAC!!!

tdh


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## peas_and_corn (7/10/09)

Make sure your golden syrup is Australian!


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## tdh (7/10/09)

What's wrong with Kiwi golden syrup???

tdh


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## peas_and_corn (7/10/09)

All the ingredients need to be Australian, apparently.


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## brettprevans (7/10/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> All the ingredients need to be Australian, apparently.


since when. The OP clearly states Aus/NZ ingredients. and after all...ANZAC = Australia New Zealand Army Corps


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## raven19 (7/10/09)

Well done on securing sponsorship.

Look forward to preparing something for it...


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## peas_and_corn (7/10/09)

GMK said:


> Only using Aus Ingredients including:~Aussie/NZ hops, grains, adjuncts & yeast.



I read that as really only allowing NZ hops, but eh.


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## brettprevans (7/10/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> I read that as really only allowing NZ hops, but eh.


ahhh i see. punctuation causing issues. i read it differantly (obviously). i assumed also b/c as/nz kits could be used. so all Aus/NZ ingredients could be used. 

kiwi wheat beer anyone


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