# Anyone Used Marris Otter In A Lager?



## frog-inasock (11/7/09)

Hi,

I have run out of weyermann pils, but have enough marris otter pale ale malt to see me through to making ales in the summer, so it would make sense to use the marris now as its nearly a year old.

Dont mind a bit of malt in my lagers and doesnt have to be ultra pale either. I cant see it being a problem but has anybody advice to the contrary?

maybe a tad more bittering to keep it balanced?

thanks.


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## Kai (11/7/09)

Go nuts and maybe yes.


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## yardy (11/7/09)

i'm going to give it a go in a schwarzbier B) 

cheers


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## Bribie G (11/7/09)

I've used it in American Pale Ales and back in my partial days I used it in 'pseudo lagers' at the rate of about 1.5 kg with a can of goop. I'd go for it.


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## chappo1970 (11/7/09)

One side of me says "Cool go for it" the other says"It ain't gunna be a lager... ever". Personally so with Bribies susgestion of of an APA!
Cheers

Chappo


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## Screwtop (11/7/09)

frog-inasock said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have run out of weyermann pils, but have enough marris otter pale ale malt to see me through to making ales in the summer, so it would make sense to use the marris now as its nearly a year old.
> 
> ...




Maybe with 20% corn a little sugar and some rice it would be almost, well,.........like...........Pils :lol:

Screwy


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## warra48 (11/7/09)

Life's too short for lagers.
Use it in what it was grown and malted for, your favourite ale.


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## pdilley (11/7/09)

BPA was all Marris Otter. US-05'at hybrid lager temps. Came out dry with no fuitiness and refreshing with the bittering levels from POR, but still had some malty undertones hiding in the back palette to enjoy if you went searching for it. A very tasty hybrid thats right at home with a spicy curry.


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## pbrosnan (11/7/09)

I don't reckon the base malt will make a hell of a lot of difference. I'd say the yeast and fermentation temp have more influence, then the hops.


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## Maxt (12/7/09)

If you wanted to win a comp, I would say don't do it, but if you just want to make a beer that is drinkable then go for it. You will also need to factor in lower efficiency if the bag is a year old.


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## Barry (12/7/09)

You could use it where you would use Munich malt, say a Munich Dunkel, maybe in a Vienna.


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## Pumpy (12/7/09)

warra48 said:


> Life's too short for lagers.




Frog-inasock , I feel it will be a good beer using the Maris Otter ,if not to style .

I have made an APA with MO it was great.

Hey Warra I had never had much luck brewing lagers but I have changed a few things and I have been making lagers recently with good results and what have I been missing out on. 

a Dortmunder style German lager 
a Bitburger style German pilsner 
a German Maibock.

If everyone brewed a good lager or Pilsner they wont look back. 

Pumpy


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## yardy (12/7/09)

Pumpy said:


> If everyone brewed a good lager or Pilsner they wont look back.
> 
> Pumpy



I'm with you mate B) 

Yard


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## Pumpy (12/7/09)

yardy said:


> I'm with you mate B)
> 
> Yard


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## Maxt (12/7/09)

Anyone can make an decent ale, not everyone can make a good lager. I always get amused at the people who like to slag off major breweries. Until they have tried, they won't realise how hard it is to brew something as delicate as a lager, where all your flaws are out there in the open, and can't hide behind big malt or hops.


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## Dave86 (12/7/09)

I've still not brewed a pils yet, so this idea is a bit far off for me...

The idea goes, once I've mastered a basic pilsener recipe, of the bohemian variety, I would try an english pils. 100% Maris, 100% EKG, do everything else exactly the same as you normally would for a pilsener.

No idea how it would go, but I reckon it would still be pretty drinkable :chug:


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## pdilley (12/7/09)

Just unloaded my camera for Mead photos and have some beer shots of BPA-II on the boil after BIAB Mash and of BPA the dry clean lager like.

100% MO, US-05, Hybrid Lager Temps, POR
From a stubbie so I, who like yeast, put it into the poured beer as US-05 is very clean but adding it to the glass you get some of the scrubbed out hop flavours the yeast pulled out during fermentation back into your beer, poured it all in as one big glass, so you don't get to see how clear it is when you pour all but the yeasty bottom of the bottle. With such a dry and cleanly fermented PA, the difference in taste immediately noticeable.




Thats BPA-II in the background on the boil. For BIAB its really is very very handy (did I say how handy?) to have a nice big flask and a very large funnel to collect your post mash grain runoff.



With the lagers, an all grain European Lager is the best. All my time in the states with cheapened adjunct based Lagers pretty much put me off beer when over there. Handy as I ended up brewing Meads to keep myself busy. BPA is a close match to German Pilsner but with the MO/PA grain as the base and the POR flavour and aroma put out less than moderate imparts. Your classic German Pilsener is very light straw/golden color and well hopped. Hop bitterness is high. Hop aroma and flavour is moderate and quite obvious. It is a well-attenuated, medium-bodied beer, but a malty accent can be perceived. Fruity esters and diacetyl should not be perceived. There should be no chill haze. Its head should be dense and rich.

It helps in the making of hybrid lagers when your tap water is a pretty much spot on match to the Plzensky Prazdroj brewery in Pilsen but any soft water source should be a good start.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (12/7/09)

Pumpy said:


> If everyone brewed a good lager or Pilsner they wont look back.
> 
> Pumpy



Absolutely spot on Pumpy :beerbang: !

C&B
TDA


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## Bribie G (12/7/09)

I'm currently brewing my first Czech Pilsener and it's going into lagering today. 

As a Pommy lager drinker of old, if you wanted to produce a 'historical' British lager beer like Tennents Lager, Wrexham Lager or even the UK versions of Carling etc you could do worse than:

3.5 kg Maris Otter
500g Maize (flaked or Polenta)
300g da sugaz

15g of a high alpha UK hop such as Target with a 90 min boil
a trace, less than 10g of an aroma hop such as Saaz

A Carlsberg style liquid lager yeast or even just Nottingham fermented down to about 15 degrees.

I note that on one of the UK forums I visit there's a discussion going on about interchangeablilty of ale and pils malts but more from the other direction of using pils in ales.

Edit: also on that forum I asked about recipes for Carling etc and they reckoned that in the 60s and 70s most of the so called pom lagers were just very blonde highly filtered ales with heaps of adjunct and that the malts would not have been imported at great expense from over the channel - they were definitely brewed to a price.


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## neonmeate (12/7/09)

Dave86 said:


> I've still not brewed a pils yet, so this idea is a bit far off for me...
> 
> The idea goes, once I've mastered a basic pilsener recipe, of the bohemian variety, I would try an english pils. 100% Maris, 100% EKG, do everything else exactly the same as you normally would for a pilsener.
> 
> No idea how it would go, but I reckon it would still be pretty drinkable :chug:



i've always thought this might be interesting... would be fairly alt-bier like.


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## The King of Spain (12/7/09)

Yes, using Nelson Sauvin hops. Will do it again


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## warra48 (12/7/09)

Pumpy said:


> Hey Warra I had never had much luck brewing lagers but I have changed a few things and I have been making lagers recently with good results and what have I been missing out on.
> 
> a Dortmunder style German lager
> a Bitburger style German pilsner
> ...



I've not had much real success with lagers, although they have been quite drinkable. The few I've done have all had something not quite right, you wouldn't enter them in a comp. I'll have to try again.
I still have a split of WY2001 in the fridge, and about 30 kg of Weyermann Premium Pils malt.
I'm thinking of doing an all Pils malt, single infusion, all Saaz.
Maybe if I keep it dead simple, forget about decoctions etc, we'll see what we can achieve.


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## Bribie G (12/7/09)

warra48 said:


> I've not had much real success with lagers, although they have been quite drinkable. The few I've done have all had something not quite right, you wouldn't enter them in a comp. I'll have to try again.
> I still have a split of WY2001 in the fridge, and about 30 kg of Weyermann Premium Pils malt.
> I'm thinking of doing an all Pils malt, single infusion, all Saaz.
> Maybe if I keep it dead simple, forget about decoctions etc, we'll see what we can achieve.



:icon_offtopic: Warra, I'm a couple of weeks ahead of you on that one. I've had my first Pilsener in primary at 10 to 12 degrees for three weeks with diacetyl rest at 15 degrees as well, and lagering it for three weeks as from this afternoon. FWIW:

5kg Bohemian Pilsener 
6 plugs German Saaz 90 mins
3 plugs 20 mins

Wyeast 2001 Urquell started and bred up for 3 days for more pitching yeast.

I used half and half town water and ALDI springwater and did a 20 min rest at 53 degrees first.

Can't wait to have a sip whilst transferring to lagering vessel.


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## Pumpy (12/7/09)

warra48 said:


> I've not had much real success with lagers, although they have been quite drinkable. The few I've done have all had something not quite right, you wouldn't enter them in a comp. I'll have to try again.
> I still have a split of WY2001 in the fridge, and about 30 kg of Weyermann Premium Pils malt.
> I'm thinking of doing an all Pils malt, single infusion, all Saaz.
> Maybe if I keep it dead simple, forget about decoctions etc, we'll see what we can achieve.



Warra this is a simple recipe .my mate & I mashed it ,He took a keg to a BBQ last night and the five of them finished the keg they loved it !!

The Best information I can give you and I am no expert on Lagers /pilsners is 


I did do a 50C protein rest and them mashed about 65C 

Do a 4 litre at 10 C starter its worth it 

 Chill the wort to 10 C 

remember you can aerate anytime during the wort in the first 24-36 hours .

You wont need to do a Diacetyl rest if you start both at 10C with a big starter but you can if you want .

should ferment out in 2-3 weeks keep checking the gravity you dont want too low 1.010-11 Sg.

lager for 4 weeks 

I was into mine after two weeks but better to lager 

Listen to all the BN Podcasts on all lagers Bocks,pisners ,maibocks etc to get all the info well worth it

Pumpy 


Lachi's Pilsner( Revised 1 ) 
German Pilsner (Pils) 


Type: All Grain
Date: 23/05/2009 
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Brewer: Lauchi 
Boil Size: 47.96 L Asst Brewer: Pumpy 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment 40 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.76 kg Weyermann Pilsner (3.9 EBC) Grain 100.00 % 
62.00 gm Pearle [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 29.8 IBU 
35.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (15 min) Hops 3.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz [3.20 %] (1 min) Hops 0.2 IBU 
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
2.12 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc 
21.13 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs German Bock Lager (White Labs #WLP833) Yeast-Lager 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.02 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 % 
Bitterness: 33.3 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 6.5 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 7.76 kg 
Sparge Water: 36.49 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
30 min Protein Rest Add 20.24 L of water at 54.0 C 50.0 C 
75 min Saccharification Heat to 65.0 C over 15 min 65.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 



Mash Notes: Two step profile with a protein rest for mashes with unmodified grains or adjuncts. Temperature mash for use when mashing in a brew pot over a heat source such as the stove. Use heat to maintain desired temperature during the mash.


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