# 2 Can Stout On A Belgian Yeast Trub



## MagooMan (12/2/09)

Hi
I'm thinking of doing a toucan of Coopers stout onto a trub of Wyeast Forbidden Fruit . Anyone tried anything similar ?


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## MagooMan (13/2/09)

bump


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## Swinging Beef (13/2/09)

Last year I prepared a for a comp (that I never entered) a Belgian Chocolate Ale.
It was made of leftovers from a Coles special.
Coopers Dark Ale, Coopers Lager.
To this I added 1kg dex, 1/2 kg sugar, 1kg ldme, and 300g dark chocolate
This was fermented on a trub of Ardenes yeast previously a Belgian Blonde

It turned out ok, even if it was about 10%
It is definately getting better as it gets older, some of the bitterness has toned down, but Im not sure I want to ever do a "two can" brew again. Heaps more up front bitterness using this method and not a lot of aroma or flavour, if you get me.

Certainly you can ferment stouts with belgian yeasts, but the flavours, and partikkarly aromas, can get a bit confused.


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## PostModern (13/2/09)

There are commercial examples of Belgian stouts. We just don't see them out here. I read up on it a while ago, so doing one is not new. Should be interesting. I can't comment on the recipe tho. Been a while since I brewed a Coopers stout kit.


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## sinkas (13/2/09)

I generally try and ferment half of my big beer batches with a different yeasts, last year did a RIS with WY1388, have had no complaints from any drinkers, and it won a few medals

Interestingly I did the same with my IIPA, and could hardly tell the difference between the 1388 and the 1056.. which I thaouhgt was surprising anyway


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## MagooMan (13/2/09)

Swinging Beef - How exactly did you add the dark chocolate ? Did you boil it u pin the wort with the malt ? 

Was also thinking on Wyeast Irish Ale with 2 x Coopers stout - so maybe this plus the dark chocolate could work with some fuggles for aroma / flavour ?


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## Swinging Beef (13/2/09)

MagooMan said:


> Swinging Beef - How exactly did you add the dark chocolate ? Did you boil it u pin the wort with the malt ?
> 
> Was also thinking on Wyeast Irish Ale with 2 x Coopers stout - so maybe this plus the dark chocolate could work with some fuggles for aroma / flavour ?


I added it in the boil for 15 minutes. Just broke it up and threw it in.
Wasnt nearly enough to add any significant chocolate aromas or flavours against the malt and yeast.

I tasted another chocolate beer, that DID enter the comp, and win, and he used 1.5 kg of dark 70% lindt stuff.
Now THERE is some chocolat aroma and flavour, but there is also a very expensive beer!

In future, I'd be keen to try chocolate essence in the 2ndary, but my next big stout is me trying to get enough coffee into a brew to get an alcohol AND coffee hit at the same time. So I figa I need about 3 litres of really strong, ristretto styled coffee to 20 litres.


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## marlow_coates (13/2/09)

Latest brew was a Coopers stout tin, with 2 tins of pale malt extract (liquid), onto a cup of trub of Belgian Ardennes yeast from Wyeast.

Added 200gms of dried cocoa into the secondary for a week then bottled. At 7%.
Only at about 3 weeks now with little chocolate flavour though I expect this to improve with time.

Also of note is that it is of a good bitterness. The obvious worry with 2 cans of hopped goo is that you over bitter the beer. You can balance this with extra malt rather than sugar but it is more difficult to do.

I would stick with one can for bitterness, malt extracts to increase the body to whatever your after, then sugar if need be to up the alcohol (only if desired).

You could do this same thing with most (??) of the belgian yeast varieties and see how they go.

Good luck/.


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## muckanic (13/2/09)

As I have mentioned before, the over-bitter problem can be solved by using a dual draught or lager, but the gotcha is that you then have to introduce some roast barley somehow. You could just steep it in hot water but, given that the OP seems to want a Belgiany stout, another possibility is to perform a partial mash with some wheat or rye. This adds phenols if the right yeast is used, as well as improving the mouth-feel dramatically. With a long enough mash, 0.5 kg of malt will convert 0.5 kg of roast barley, and those quantities are about right for a 23L brew. Obviously, this starts to boost the gravity, but that is hardly a bad thing in a stout. BTW, I can verify that Belgian Guiness does, or at least did 10 years ago, contain Brett.


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## MagooMan (13/2/09)

muckanic said:


> As I have mentioned before, the over-bitter problem can be solved by using a dual draught or lager, but the gotcha is that you then have to introduce some roast barley somehow. You could just steep it in hot water but, given that the OP seems to want a Belgiany stout, another possibility is to perform a partial mash with some wheat or rye. This adds phenols if the right yeast is used, as well as improving the mouth-feel dramatically. With a long enough mash, 0.5 kg of malt will convert 0.5 kg of roast barley, and those quantities are about right for a 23L brew. Obviously, this starts to boost the gravity, but that is hardly a bad thing in a stout. BTW, I can verify that Belgian Guiness does, or at least did 10 years ago, contain Brett.




Bugger, can't really do this ( don't have a mash tun ) ....oh well , something to do later on . Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts ! :beer:


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## muckanic (13/2/09)

MagooMan said:


> Bugger, can't really do this ( don't have a mash tun ) ....oh well , something to do later on .



All you need for that sort of partial mash is a big saucepan and strainer, and a blender if the brew shop won't do crushed.


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## mattcarty (14/2/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Coopers Dark Ale, Coopers Lager.
> To this I added 1kg dex, 1/2 kg sugar, 1kg ldme, and 300g dark chocolate
> This was fermented on a trub of Ardenes yeast previously a Belgian Blonde



i might give this one a go just for the hell of it.

how much sugar would be in the chocolate and would increasing the amount of chocolate effect the %.

also i would probably do the brew without a trub so any suggestions on yeast to use (perhaps the ardenes that you mention) or hops for that matter?

Cheers
Carty


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## boingk (14/2/09)

If you're worried about the bitterness of a toucan stout, just use a Canadian or Cerveza Coopers kit as the second one - they both have SFA bitterness, and are cheap for 1.7kg of extract.

- boingk


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