# Base Malts For Ales



## wbosher (31/12/12)

Hi guys,

After a few (relatively) successful AG brews now, I think I will stick with it. So, I'm looking at the option of buying in bulk to save some $$ on my base malt.

From what I've read, it seems that most people generally seem to use the same type as a base for pretty much everything they brew. Obviously there will be some exceptions though depending on beer type.

It seems that the most common ones are pale/pale ale or Pilsner malts. What are some of the ones that you use? Do you have a stock standard malt that you use for most beers?

One example is Weyermanns Pale Ale - $4.70kg or $79 for a 25kg sack, that's almost a $45 saving! Maris Otter pale is very similar in price...I guess that's two.

Anyway, just curious as to what some of you guys use.


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## spog (31/12/12)

i biab and do ales,my base malt is barrett burston ale malt,am still learning about all grain brewing but very happy with the results.
in the past i used BB ale,TF golden promise and wheat malt.got some great brews with this lot.
i dont bother with ant others as i home roast my own to add extra flavour/colour.
if interested in home roasting go to Barley Pop Maker.com.

cheers....spog..


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## Spoonta (31/12/12)

I use a lot of pale ale malt


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## Nick JD (31/12/12)

I use Weyermann Pilsner for all my beers. I can't find a style where it doesn't work - most of them are better because of it. 

Not a big fan of the Aussie malts as (to me) they have a funny taste that shows up if you aren't hopping heavily. It's a pissy taste, but underneath a bucket of hops it's difficult to notice ... make a 1.040 lager with it and you get that signature "aussie lager" thing that a lot of people attribute to warm fermenting. 

I don't make UK beers. BTW - I find Weyermann's Ale malt has a distinct taste I don't like. I'd rather use BB Ale.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (31/12/12)

Golden Promise for ales, Wey Pils and Boh Pils for lagers.
My 2c
BBB


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## Hippy (31/12/12)

I keep a bag of bb palemalt,vienna,munich, wey pils, maris otter and wheat malt in stock to cover whatever style or recipe that I feel like brewing.


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## wbosher (31/12/12)

BB ale? Is that Barret Burston? If so, I can't seem to find any of that here.

*Tons* of other names and no-name brands though. It's all quite confusing...

The no name NZ ones are really cheap, but probably crap.


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## DU99 (31/12/12)

Barret Burston is BB.. :icon_cheers:


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## Lakey (31/12/12)

Marris otter or golden promise for english ales, domestic ale or pilsener malt for aussie ales and apa's, and pilsener malt.for lagers.


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## wbosher (31/12/12)

These ones seem to be most common ones for ales in NZ, from a quick search around some online local websites:

NZ Pale Malt (Malteurope) $4.20kg $ 2.58 - $64.50 for 25kg
Weyermanns Pale Ale $4.70kg $ 3.14 - $78.50 for 25kg
UK Marris Otter Pale Ale $5.30kg $ 3.68 - $92.00 for 25kg

Quite a large difference really.

I've emailed my LHBS to see if they can do me a deal.  



Lakey said:


> Marris otter or golden promise for english ales, domestic ale or pilsener malt for aussie ales and apa's, and pilsener malt.for lagers.



If your adding plenty of hops and some specialty grains, does it really matter what base malt you use?Would the cheap NZ one do the trick?


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## mwd (31/12/12)

Maybe buy a small amount of the NZ malt to do one batch and see how you like it before buying in bulk.


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## DU99 (31/12/12)

sound's like there coming from cryer malt.
http://www.cryermalt.co.nz/


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## Yob (31/12/12)

Wouldnt be without a sack of wheat malt either, dont brew wheats but I find a wheat addition in all my ales helps that nice creamy head.

Love the stuff, I mostly still use JW Pale but do have a sack of Bo Pils and Marris Otter

I tend to brew quite a lot of APA, AIPA's so yeah, if nicks comments are believed to hold water I must have the Hop Threshold down pat.  

:icon_cheers:


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## mje1980 (31/12/12)

wbosher said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> After a few (relatively) successful AG brews now, I think I will stick with it. So, I'm looking at the option of buying in bulk to save some $$ on my base malt.
> 
> ...




US ales and aussie ales, BEST pilz, all uk ales, maris otter


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## geneabovill (31/12/12)

Got a sweet deal on some organic boh pils ($1.25 p/kg). Bought an assload of it and am working my way through it. Got an imperial pilsener CCing as I type.

Yummy.


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## Batz (31/12/12)

Yob said:


> Wouldnt be without a sack of wheat malt either, dont brew wheats but I find a wheat addition in all my ales helps that nice creamy head.
> 
> Love the stuff, I mostly still use JW Pale but do have a sack of Bo Pils and Marris Otter
> 
> ...




I'm with ya there, I don't brew wheats but very few of my beers do not have a percentage of wheat in them.
BB Pale (fantastic malt) and BB ale are always in my brewery.

Batz


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## Bribie G (31/12/12)

Retailers such as Ross would know more than me but I understand that NZ is a fairly self sufficient malt producer in its own right and you probably wouldn't get Barrett Burston or Joe White in the Shaky Isles, but I could be wrong here. The domestic malts look very well priced by our dollar standards - for most hop driven ales they would be just fine. Maybe shoot an email to a craft brewery such as Twisted Hop for their advice - they are usually quite friendly to home brewers.


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## manticle (31/12/12)

wbosher said:


> If your adding plenty of hops and some specialty grains, does it really matter what base malt you use?



Yes.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (31/12/12)

manticle said:


> Yes.


+1
BBB


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## Screwtop (31/12/12)

Galaxy
Maris Otter
Wheat


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## wbosher (31/12/12)

manticle said:


> Yes.



Nice answer manticle :lol: Care to elaborate?

When I say "does it really matter what base malt you use", I don't mean *any *old malt, just does it really matter if I use an expensive one like Maris Otter or could I get a similar tasting beer with a cheaper NZ malt? Especially if it's quite a hoppy beer.

I'm not trying to brew a competition winner, just a nice beer.


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## Barry (31/12/12)

I am fairly predictable. Maris Otter for most ales.Weyermann or Castle malts for lagers, Castle pale malts for American and possibly Aussie pale ales IMHO. Again my experience and view.


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## bum (31/12/12)

Don't you blokes who exclusively use one base malt ever get bored? Or do you generally cycle through the same recipes so you aren't looking for any variance between batches?


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## tavas (31/12/12)

Will depend somewhat on how defined your palate is. I can't taste the difference between Weyermann and Joe White, so for me Joe White wins based on price. 

I am sure others have more sensitive palates and can taste the difference. I should point out I brew mainly hoppyish ales.

Probably also depends on consistency in the brew house.


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## Nick JD (31/12/12)

bum said:


> Don't you blokes who exclusively use one base malt ever get bored?



No. 

A Belgian dubbel with 1214 and Weyermann Pils; and a German Lager with Hallertau and Weyermann Pils; and an IIPA with 75 IBUs of Amarillo and Weyermann Pils; and a Hefe with 50% Weyermann Pils; and a...

...drinking right now, a 3.5% Simcoe Ale with __________ as the base malt. It's not mousepiss aussie crap either if you're guessing.


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## bum (31/12/12)

Nah, simcoe and VB don't sound like good bed partners to me.

I see the point you're trying to make but what I'm hearing is "I can't taste malt".


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## Nick JD (31/12/12)

bum said:


> I'm hearing is "I can't taste malt".



Oh, I can taste it alright. It tastes like Weyermann Pilsner. 

That's the whole point. A sweet, bready, grainy basemalt that provides a great counterpoint to hops in bitter beers, to wheat in hefes, to noble hops in lagers and to esters in Belgians.

All the other beers I think are crap and they don't exist. h34r:


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## bum (31/12/12)

Ha! Fair enough then.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (1/1/13)

Some brewers can use cheap malts and make great beer , other's can use expensive malts and make average beers.
Most Micro's will be running cheaper Aussie malts and producing winning beers.
More about the brewer than the malt. I do use Euro malts for EU beers etc but I do have a cool room full of different malts so its not a money issue for me.
I believe in a blind taste test very few will be able to pick the different base malts or identify where they are from, maybe in a Pils its possible to taste the difference.
Nev


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## Screwtop (1/1/13)

Base malts change batch to batch anyway! Pick a couple of base malts which suite the beers you brew most and stick with them. No matter what the base malt a brewer can use other malts, adjuncts, mash schedule, yeast strain, fermentation regime etc to achieve a desired outcome.

Screwy


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## wbosher (1/1/13)

tavas said:


> Will depend somewhat on how defined your palate is. I can't taste the difference between Weyermann and Joe White, so for me Joe White wins based on price.
> 
> I am sure others have more sensitive palates and can taste the difference. I should point out I brew mainly hoppyish ales.
> 
> Probably also depends on consistency in the brew house.



Is it just a matter of taste, or do they also have other different properties like head, mouthfeel etc?

My palates is not sensitive at all. I have pretty much no (or at least very little) sense of smell, so I guess that if it's just a matter of them tasting a little different, that the cheap one would be the same as the more expensive ones to me. I haven't tried back to back recipes that are the same except the base malt, so maybe I should give that a go before doing a bulk buy.


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## stux (1/1/13)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Golden Promise for ales, Wey Pils and Boh Pils for lagers.
> My 2c
> BBB



This.


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## QldKev (1/1/13)

I'll go with the same as I've posted in the other 10 threads within the last year asking this exact same question


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## stux (1/1/13)

Try the NZ malt 

Should be fine, will be cheap.


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## Ross (1/1/13)

wbosher said:


> Is it just a matter of taste, or do they also have other different properties like head, mouthfeel etc?
> 
> My palates is not sensitive at all. I have pretty much no (or at least very little) sense of smell, so I guess that if it's just a matter of them tasting a little different, that the cheap one would be the same as the more expensive ones to me. I haven't tried back to back recipes that are the same except the base malt, so maybe I should give that a go before doing a bulk buy.




Wbosher,

There is nothing wrong with NZ malt. Differences are subtle & are flavour. By your own admission you have a poor palate & sense of smell, so i think you have answered your own question. You're trying to save money, so buy NZ malt & if you're brewing practises are sound you should make excellent beer.

Cheers Ross


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## manticle (1/1/13)

wbosher said:


> Nice answer manticle :lol: Care to elaborate?
> 
> When I say "does it really matter what base malt you use", I don't mean *any *old malt, just does it really matter if I use an expensive one like Maris Otter or could I get a similar tasting beer with a cheaper NZ malt? Especially if it's quite a hoppy beer.
> 
> I'm not trying to brew a competition winner, just a nice beer.



It matters in terms of the fact that each ingredient you add to your beer has an effect. I find 250g of biscuit makes a discernible difference so 6kg of Maris Otter compared to 6kg of BB or somesuch will matter' in that regard.

How much of an effect will be beer dependent, ingredient dependent, brewer dependent and palate dependent so only you can really work out what you prefer.

I used to use a lot of Joe White and made what I thought was lovely beer. I now mainly use Weyermann, Dingemans and Simpsons and think the beer is better for it.

It matters to me but you should be able to make beer you like with malt you choose. There are more important things to worry about when starting out - go with the cheaper, when you have nutted out a decent recipe and brewed it a few times, change the base malt and see for yourself.


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## wbosher (1/1/13)

Thanks for your help guys. I'll give the cheaper NZ malt a shot and go from there.


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## Nick JD (1/1/13)

wbosher said:


> Thanks for your help guys. I'll give the cheaper NZ malt a shot and go from there.



Your beer will taste like Lion Red, bro! 

But seriously - I wonder what Steinlager has as its base malt?


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## wbosher (1/1/13)

Lion Red is vomit inducing crap :icon_vomit: as is most mass produced NZ beer. 

I used to drink Tui, says its an East India Pale Ale...yeah right. :lol: Never go there again after getting back into home brew.


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## Tilt (1/1/13)

Gladfields are another local NZ maltster worth considering. They produce good quality base malts and a few specialties.
I reckon they're good as a base malt for the everyday beer (most styles) if you're happy to add flavour using specialties.
Having said that I tend to stick to English malts for my Bitters and Euro malts for Pils/Belgians.
As with any ingredient you need to know how to treat them to get the best out of them - check out this thread on the Real beer NZ forum for a recent discussion on clarity and break material.
Horses for courses but a good, cheaper, local alternative.
Cheers


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## dicko (1/1/13)

I just bought some B&B Pale Pilsener in a bulk buy.
Does any one use this? Does any one have opinions/observations/thoughts or criticisms of this grain?
I usually use JW Pils as a base grain for my swill type beers but I thought I might give this one a try seeing it is well priced by the sack.
Thoughts?

Cheers


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