# Whirlpooling Not Really Working Very Well



## squirt in the turns (18/10/12)

Im finding that my whirlpooling technique isnt working too well. I chill in the kettle and my wort ends up kind of visibly clear, but below the surface there are lots of clouds break material suspended throughout, instead of forming a nice cone/pile. My kettle is a 70L stainless pot from Craftbrewer, with a dedicated whirlpool return, which is a 90 barbed elbow screwed through the kettle wall and into a ball valve on the outside. Its positioned so that its submerged by an inch or so by the end of a single batch boil. Ive only done single batches so far in this kettle, so the space occupied by the wort is kind of wide and low not sure if that has anything to do with my problem.

15 mins from the end of the boil I start recirculating, drawing from the kettle outlet (which is just a 90 elbow for a pickup tube, no screen or anything), through a march pump, then plate chiller, then the wort return elbow. At flameout I just kill the power and start the water flow through the chiller, continuing to recirculate. It definitely looks like the whole mass of wort is whirlpooling. I use a hop sock to avoid bits of hops getting stuck in the chiller and remove it when the wort gets to about 40, and the 2 elements are the D-shaped type that loop back toward the pot wall, so there is nothing in the middle of the kettle to interfere with trub cone formation. Once its at my desired pitching temperature I stop the pump and let it settle for up to 20 mins. The small amount of hop material that makes it through the sock is in a nice pile in the middle, but the break wont drop out. Whirlpooling time after the sock is removed is still at least 15 minutes. I would have though that would be sufficient.

The only ideas I currently have are:
Koppafloc: I have read that the dosage is pretty crucial and that too much is detrimental. Ive just been going with what the label says half a tsp at 10 mins. Is it worth upping this? Also, does it have a good shelf life? The pack I've got must be 3 years old.
My run-off might be too clear? Since going HERMS, Ive been recirculating the already clear wort until its literally crystal clear (to my eye anyway). This is not translating into clear wort at the end of the boil, though. Someone told me that a bit of mash gunk in the kettle is desirable as it gives the koppafloc and break something to coagulate around.

Any advice would be much appreciated!


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## sponge (18/10/12)

Brewbrite.


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## bcp (18/10/12)

Interesting. I use an urn, and used to get very effective separation with irish moss and a whirlpool. Last six months or more - it hardly seems to leave anything behind. I was trying to work out if the batch of irish moss has a problem (i don't know, can it lose its polarity?), or whether my technique has altered or some other variable.

Edit: just realised i've only been doing 10 minutes with irish moss - maybe need another 5.


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## squirt in the turns (18/10/12)

sponge said:


> Brewbrite.



I had considered using this stuff. Should have picked some up last time I was at CB <_< 

This question's probably been asked a heap of times, but here goes: can I just mix regular Polyclar and Koppafloc and use that? Will it have the same effect, or is the PVPP and Carrageenan in Brewbrite different? What ratio should they be mixed in?


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## Sammus (18/10/12)

It could be it's your cold break still in suspension. I've noticed that cold break takes forever to settle out compared to hot break. I whirlpool in the same kettle while it's hot and get an amazing cone of trub with crystal clear wort. I chill it through a plate chiller on the way to the fermenter and it's all cloudy with the cold break that, as usual, takes quite a while to drop out.

I wouldn't worry too much though, apparently the cold break is actually beneficial to yeast health and stuff.


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## squirt in the turns (18/10/12)

Sammus said:


> It could be it's your cold break still in suspension. I've noticed that cold break takes forever to settle out compared to hot break. I whirlpool in the same kettle while it's hot and get an amazing cone of trub with crystal clear wort. I chill it through a plate chiller on the way to the fermenter and it's all cloudy with the cold break that, as usual, takes quite a while to drop out.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much though, apparently the cold break is actually beneficial to yeast health and stuff.



Is it possible that cold break in suspension could interfere with hot break precipitation? It seems like there's almost no break material in the trub "cone" (what little of it there is). Sammus, your point about the benefits of cold break is well taken, but I like chilling in the kettle because:

- I can (theoretically) leave all break material, both hot and cold, in the kettle. Obviously this isn't working for me at the moment.
- I can chill to the exact temperature at which I want to pitch the yeast, then stop.
- I can more easily get to pitching temperature this way by running tap water straight through the chiller (watering the plants with the waste water), then switching to recirculating water from an ice-slurry once the wort gets to about 30C.

I'm going to do the first double batch on this system on Saturday, so I'll see if the fluid dynamics of a less "squat" volume of liquid lend themselves to better cone formation. I'll also see what I can find on mixing my own Brewbrite substitute, and whether it makes any difference.


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## bum (18/10/12)

Failing any of the above, is it possible your chiller design/placement is impeding good whirlpool formation?

[EDIT: ignore me, I somehow missed the plate chiller and assumed immersion. Sorry.]


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## donburke (18/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> Is it possible that cold break in suspension could interfere with hot break precipitation? It seems like there's almost no break material in the trub "cone" (what little of it there is). Sammus, your point about the benefits of cold break is well taken, but I like chilling in the kettle because:
> 
> - I can (theoretically) leave all break material, both hot and cold, in the kettle. Obviously this isn't working for me at the moment.
> - I can chill to the exact temperature at which I want to pitch the yeast, then stop.
> ...



a few things ...

1) the resistance of pumping your wort through the chiller prior to returning it to the kettle would definitely slow it down, possibly not enough oomph to get a good whirlpool going. can you bypass the chiller after you have cooled it and continue recirculating for a minute using pump alone ? i rest for another five or ten minutes after i have cooled and switched the pump off before filling fermenter

2) your return seems a little high, and perhaps is only skimming the top of the wort and not causing enough movement of the whole depth of wort, there is an ideal position and angle for the return. things will probably be better with your double batch i'd say, at least you'll know if that is the problem

3) not relevant to your question, and you have stated why you do things the way you do, but you can cool your wort down much quicker with as single pass rather than recirculating


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## QldKev (18/10/12)

Just make it look like this






2 easy

QldKev


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## Blitzer (18/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Just make it look like this
> 
> 
> View attachment 57877
> ...



Did Zorro mark your trub?


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## donburke (18/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Just make it look like this
> 
> 
> View attachment 57877
> ...



show off


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## bcp (18/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Just make it look like this
> 
> 
> View attachment 57877
> ...



You just put in a bowl of stodgy old porridge and covered it in honey.


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## squirt in the turns (18/10/12)

donburke said:


> a few things ...
> 
> 1) the resistance of pumping your wort through the chiller prior to returning it to the kettle would definitely slow it down, possibly not enough oomph to get a good whirlpool going. can you bypass the chiller after you have cooled it and continue recirculating for a minute using pump alone ? i rest for another five or ten minutes after i have cooled and switched the pump off before filling fermenter
> 
> ...



Thanks for you input, DB.
1) You're right, but it _looks_ like the movement of the wort would still be sufficient. As you mention in your next point, it could just be the surface that's moving, and bypassing the chiller after cooling is something I certainly can do, so I'll try that. That said, the traces of hop debris are collecting quite happily in the centre.

2) Do you have any information or sources on what this placement should be? Angle is something I can change easily. Position... not so much.

3) I'm pretty happy with the rate the temperature drops. It gets below 80C in just a few minutes. I'll have to time it on Saturday.

After some more reading, I am starting to think that my finings and/or the way I handle them could be the problem. For a start, the KoppaFloc I've got is old, which almost certainly reduces its effectiveness. Does anyone know if upping the dose can compensate for this? I'd like to try Brewbrite but won't be able to get any before the next brewday. There are a few threads on AHB where it's suggested that it should be dissolved in a slurry first, and/or added to the whirlpool after flameout. Not sure if any of that applies to straight carrageen.



QldKev said:


> Just make it look like this
> 
> 
> View attachment 57877
> ...



If I can't achieve that by whirlpooling, I'll just throw some spent hops from the hopsock into the bottom of the kettle, shape them like by hand that and _say_ my whirlpool works perfectly like QldKev's!


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## Helles (18/10/12)

The last two beers i made where cloudy at the top of the kettle
Clear at the bottom of the kettle 
I put it down to hop oils on top of the wort as there was also an oil slick on top
Both beers turned out great
Used a heap of Citra and Simcoe and I.Moss 
Never had this before 
Although whirlpool works well with good trub cone
Only whirlpool with a spoon Chill with Immersion chiller


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## donburke (18/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> 2) Do you have any information or sources on what this placement should be? Angle is something I can change easily. Position... not so much.




here is a good start 

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=52411&st=0


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## spudfarmerboy (18/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Just make it look like this
> 
> 
> View attachment 57877
> ...


Kev,
How do you cool, IC or plate chiller?
I have found when using a plate chiller, I can get a cone like that, but when using an immersion chiller I get a cone of hop material but there is still heaps of cold break material in suspension.
If using a plate chiller, do you use a hop filter or similiar?


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## QldKev (18/10/12)

Blitzer said:


> Did Zorro mark your trub?



Yeah the bastard, keep asking him to write a QK in it...




donburke said:


> show off



B) 




bcp said:


> You just put in a bowl of stodgy old porridge and covered it in honey.



That nor how you make porridge 




squirt in the turns said:


> If I can't achieve that by whirlpooling, I'll just throw some spent hops from the hopsock into the bottom of the kettle, shape them like by hand that and _say_ my whirlpool works perfectly like QldKev's!



Clag clue helps :lol: 




spudfarmerboy said:


> Kev,
> How do you cool, IC or plate chiller?
> I have found when using a plate chiller, I can get a cone like that, but when using an immersion chiller I get a cone of hop material but there is still heaps of cold break material in suspension.
> If using a plate chiller, do you use a hop filter or similiar?



I no-chill and don't have a return line in the kettle. 

I find to get a good formation, 
Flame out and leave it 10-15mins with lid on
Stir with mash paddle 
Lid back on for another 10mins
Lid slightly ajar and fill the cubes. Do not lift the lid fully off otherwise you get the currents pulling shit back up.

QldKev


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## stevemc32 (18/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Lid slightly ajar and fill the cubes. Do not lift the lid fully off otherwise you get the currents pulling shit back up.



I've only done about 10 biab brews so far but always struggling with these currents pulling shit back up when I'm transferring to the cube. Never thought to pay them no attention and they'd go away. Definitely leaving the lid on next time.

Cheers.


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## squirt in the turns (19/10/12)

donburke said:


> here is a good start
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=52411&st=0



Thanks. Some good info there, certainly a lot factors I failed to consider. When you mentioned return angle, I was thinking in terms of the vertical angle. Didn't event think about the tangential angle.  Can't change that at all with the current set up.

Obviously I can change the position, I'm just over drilling holes in stainless. The pot already has one erroneous hole with a brass plug in it from when I moved a temp probe. Hopefully the current placement is about right for a double batch anyway.

Makes sense that the hose barb elbow I'm using isn't doing a great job, as it's right at the edge and basically pointing the wort at the kettle wall. I'm tempted to just do a run up to CB tomorrow morning for a couple of compression fittings and re-do the return with a bit of copper pipe sticking out into the pot at the correct angle. I'll also add a fitting and pipe to the elbow I use as a pickup tube too, so the wort is properly drawn from the very edge and bottom (or just above?). I'll get some Brewbrite while I'm at it.

As impressive as QldKev's cone is, it does appear to be mainly composed of hops. Coming back to my earlier thought about a bit of mash material in the boil aiding flocculation, I wonder if loose hops also help to trap break material as they move about. I might try throwing the hops in loose, whirlpooling without the chiller for 10 mins at the beginning to avoid getting too much hop material in it, then add it to the loop.



QldKev said:


> Clag clue helps :lol:



Ah, Clag Glue is too often overlooked as a fining agent.  But if you Google it, the first image is of a bottle of it next to a horse. As a vegan, that's just too suss for me.


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## insane_rosenberg (19/10/12)

QldKev said:


> I no-chill and don't have a return line in the kettle.
> 
> I find to get a good formation,
> Flame out and leave it 10-15mins with lid on
> ...



Holy shit Kev!

Why couldn't you have told me that 2 years ago?

Now I just need to sort out a good pick up tube for a crown urn B)

Edit: Spelling.


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## MaltyHops (19/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> ... Makes sense that the hose barb elbow I'm using isn't doing a great job, as it's right
> at the edge and basically pointing the wort at the kettle wall. ...



Attaching a short length of silicon hose to the elbow to direct wort
out along kettle wall might be an option?


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## squirt in the turns (19/10/12)

MaltyHops said:


> Attaching a short length of silicon hose to the elbow to direct wort
> out along kettle wall might be an option?



The barb already points parallel to the kettle wall, which due to the curve of the wall means it's pretty quickly just hitting it. A hose wouldn't really solve anything unless it could somehow be directed more into the middle of the kettle. If I'd posted a pic, you'd see what I mean. I'm going to swap the 90 degree barb for a bent bit of pipe stuck into a compression fitting before I brew tomorrow. I'll post before and after pics, hopefully including a pic of nice fat cone h34r:


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## Cocko (19/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Just make it look like this
> 
> 
> View attachment 57877
> ...



9.7

Pretty good rating IMO!


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## squirt in the turns (20/10/12)

OK, here's what I had before:




A couple of chrome plated brass compression fittings and a bit of pipe later:



Yes, everything's filthy. It's recirculating napisan solution right now to clean up and also to test the whirlpool, and it seems to be working nicely. The day's half gone now so I'll kick off a double batch early tomorrow. Hopefully these modifications solve my problem.

I emailed Zymus (who make KoppaFloc) about the shelf life, and they replied that it's 730 days, which I suppose is a litigious way of saying 2 years, while accounting for that extra day that sometimes sneaks into February. I must have had mine at least that long, and of course I have no way of knowing when it was repackaged by CB, but I'll persist with it anyway and probably try Brewbrite further down the track.


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## squirt in the turns (22/10/12)

I think I must be doing something wrong with my kettle finings, either getting the dose wrong or (more likely) using out of date KoppaFloc. The below pics are of the aforementioned inaugural double batch. Not shown is the full kettle, post whirlpooling and chilling, which looked pretty clear (clouds of break were too submerged to see). I used 2 2400 W elements going full-pelt and chilled the 42 L of wort to 12C within an hour, so I am confident about both hot and cold break. Unfortunately I just can't get it to flocculate. Chucked a slurry of Polyclar PPVP into the whirlpool just for fun.

I threw the hop pellets in loose for this one, for no real reason but to see the effect of the whirlpool on them. As donburke suggested, I bypassed the chiller, but at the start of the whirlpool not the end, to encourage less hop material to go through it, adding it into the loop 10 mins after flameout. Its effect on flow is noticeable but not dramatic. After turning off the pump, the chilled wort was left to settle for about 25 mins.

After draining about half the wort:



As before, all the break is evenly dispersed throughout the wort. It does seem to sink as it wasn't visible in the full volume of wort, just doesn't actually clump and properly fall out.

After draining all of it:



Based on the hop cone, I'd say the whirlpool definitely works now. Maybe the angle of the nozzle is too acute, but I can fix that.

Pinning my hopes of BrewBrite for now, unless anyone has any other wisdom to contribute?


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## Byran (22/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> I think I must be doing something wrong with my kettle finings, either getting the dose wrong or (more likely) using out of date KoppaFloc. The below pics are of the aforementioned inaugural double batch. Not shown is the full kettle, post whirlpooling and chilling, which looked pretty clear (clouds of break were too submerged to see). I used 2 2400 W elements going full-pelt and chilled the 42 L of wort to 12C within an hour, so I am confident about both hot and cold break. Unfortunately I just can't get it to flocculate. Chucked a slurry of Polyclar PPVP into the whirlpool just for fun.
> 
> I threw the hop pellets in loose for this one, for no real reason but to see the effect of the whirlpool on them. As donburke suggested, I bypassed the chiller, but at the start of the whirlpool not the end, to encourage less hop material to go through it, adding it into the loop 10 mins after flameout. Its effect on flow is noticeable but not dramatic. After turning off the pump, the chilled wort was left to settle for about 25 mins.
> 
> ...


View attachment 57979

I done this one recently, BIAB, no flocculating agents at all. Just good 70 min boil and whirlpool.
I use a metal grid to prevent the bag from burning on the pot during heating, I found that If I left it in there during whirl pooling it ended up looking a lot like yours, lots of trub on the outside edges. would think it affects the whirlpool due to turbulence and would behave similar to your heating elements............
I used whirfloc until I ran out. It does form a much stickier protein ball but it seems to work fine without it. I would definitely suggest you adjust your whirlpool inlet pipe it will make a big difference. The pipe seem to be quite far out from the pots edge? Also the heating elements would create restriction to the whirlpool effect in your case, Would this not create turbulent flow characteristics in your trub pile? Just a thought, but if centrifugal force is not acting on the liquids then maybe that is contributing to the bulk of the trub in the outer rings of the pile. The liquid may not be getting enough free moment around the trub pile and this may be causing your trub to be separating from the central pile in the whirlpool. 
Just sayin.......


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## mckenry (23/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> I think I must be doing something wrong with my kettle finings, either getting the dose wrong or (more likely) using out of date KoppaFloc. The below pics are of the aforementioned inaugural double batch. Not shown is the full kettle, post whirlpooling and chilling, which looked pretty clear (clouds of break were too submerged to see). I used 2 2400 W elements going full-pelt and chilled the 42 L of wort to 12C within an hour, so I am confident about both hot and cold break. Unfortunately I just can't get it to flocculate. Chucked a slurry of Polyclar PPVP into the whirlpool just for fun.
> 
> I threw the hop pellets in loose for this one, for no real reason but to see the effect of the whirlpool on them. As donburke suggested, I bypassed the chiller, but at the start of the whirlpool not the end, to encourage less hop material to go through it, adding it into the loop 10 mins after flameout. Its effect on flow is noticeable but not dramatic. After turning off the pump, the chilled wort was left to settle for about 25 mins.
> 
> ...



Hi Squirt,
Only skimmed the thread, so not sure if this has been suggested.
From your picture, you need to be whirlpooling anti-clockwise. With your pickup tube pointing to the right, the flow needs to slide past the opening. If you whirlpool clockwise, the flow will try to force up the pickup tube, causing turbulence. Even if the pickup is full of wort, the edges do cause turbulence. Any chance you can change that wort return to face right as well? Seems to be 'fighting' the pickup, wrt whirlpooling.
mckenry


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## ashley_leask (23/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> I think I must be doing something wrong with my kettle finings, either getting the dose wrong or (more likely) using out of date KoppaFloc. The below pics are of the aforementioned inaugural double batch. Not shown is the full kettle, post whirlpooling and chilling, which looked pretty clear (clouds of break were too submerged to see). I used 2 2400 W elements going full-pelt and chilled the 42 L of wort to 12C within an hour, so I am confident about both hot and cold break. Unfortunately I just can't get it to flocculate. Chucked a slurry of Polyclar PPVP into the whirlpool just for fun.
> 
> I threw the hop pellets in loose for this one, for no real reason but to see the effect of the whirlpool on them. As donburke suggested, I bypassed the chiller, but at the start of the whirlpool not the end, to encourage less hop material to go through it, adding it into the loop 10 mins after flameout. Its effect on flow is noticeable but not dramatic. After turning off the pump, the chilled wort was left to settle for about 25 mins.
> 
> ...



I've used both plate and immersion chillers, and what you're getting I think is pretty standard for chilling in the kettle. Cold break just doesn't settle the way hot break and hop material does. You look to have a pretty decent cone formed in the centre so I don't think your elements are interfering with the whirlpool too much. 

If you want to chill in the kettle there'll be more trub to deal with (cold as well as hot break and hop matter) and the cold break just won't settle into a cone the way the other two do.


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## squirt in the turns (23/10/12)

Byran said:


> I done this one recently, BIAB, no flocculating agents at all. Just good 70 min boil and whirlpool.
> I use a metal grid to prevent the bag from burning on the pot during heating, I found that If I left it in there during whirl pooling it ended up looking a lot like yours, lots of trub on the outside edges. would think it affects the whirlpool due to turbulence and would behave similar to your heating elements............
> I used whirfloc until I ran out. It does form a much stickier protein ball but it seems to work fine without it. I would definitely suggest you adjust your whirlpool inlet pipe it will make a big difference. The pipe seem to be quite far out from the pots edge? Also the heating elements would create restriction to the whirlpool effect in your case, Would this not create turbulent flow characteristics in your trub pile? Just a thought, but if centrifugal force is not acting on the liquids then maybe that is contributing to the bulk of the trub in the outer rings of the pile. The liquid may not be getting enough free moment around the trub pile and this may be causing your trub to be separating from the central pile in the whirlpool.
> Just sayin.......



Cheers Bryan. The whirlpool return is kind of out of proportion in my photo as it's a lot closer to the lens. You're right that it could be a bit long. When you suggest adjusting it, do you mean changing the angle (to point slightly less at the kettle wall)? Or just the length? I could achieve both at the same time by taking a bit of the end with the pipe cutter. Wouldn't even need to remove it from the kettle.



mckenry said:


> Hi Squirt,
> Only skimmed the thread, so not sure if this has been suggested.
> From your picture, you need to be whirlpooling anti-clockwise. With your pickup tube pointing to the right, the flow needs to slide past the opening. If you whirlpool clockwise, the flow will try to force up the pickup tube, causing turbulence. Even if the pickup is full of wort, the edges do cause turbulence. Any chance you can change that wort return to face right as well? Seems to be 'fighting' the pickup, wrt whirlpooling.
> mckenry



This seems counter-intuitive to me, if I understand your point correctly. The wort return nozzle/inlet is the thing on the right, directing the returning wort anti-clockwise. The pickup tube is on the left, with the opening facing into the flow, so that the wort is sucked into the tube without changing direction (until it hits the elbow). If I were to turn the pickup tube around, the wort would be changing direction as it's sucked up. Wouldn't that create more turbulence and/or cause a loss of kinetic energy as the wort takes a more convoluted path?



Another Ash said:


> I've used both plate and immersion chillers, and what you're getting I think is pretty standard for chilling in the kettle. Cold break just doesn't settle the way hot break and hop material does. You look to have a pretty decent cone formed in the centre so I don't think your elements are interfering with the whirlpool too much.
> 
> If you want to chill in the kettle there'll be more trub to deal with (cold as well as hot break and hop matter) and the cold break just won't settle into a cone the way the other two do.



Yeah, I was pretty pleased with that much at least. It didn't really look like there was much hot break in the cone, though. I did get almost no hop material in the fermenter, so I guess the basic dynamics of the whirlpool are working for me here. Just not convinced that much break material, hot or cold, is in that cone. That said, I did skim the boil a bit. I don't normally bother, but after the initial foam dissipation, some hot break kind of persisted and almost formed a "skin" on the wort at the edges where the surface is not broken continually by the rolling boil. This might account for seeing little of it at the end. As you suggest, the cloudy break in the pics may all be cold break. I guess I don't _really_ care if it ends up in the fermenter. Anyway, will try Brewbrite and see what happens.


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## mckenry (24/10/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> This seems counter-intuitive to me, if I understand your point correctly. The wort return nozzle/inlet is the thing on the right, directing the returning wort anti-clockwise. The pickup tube is on the left, with the opening facing into the flow, so that the wort is sucked into the tube without changing direction (until it hits the elbow). If I were to turn the pickup tube around, the wort would be changing direction as it's sucked up. Wouldn't that create more turbulence and/or cause a loss of kinetic energy as the wort takes a more convoluted path?



OK I understand your setup better now. What I am saying, is you still need the direction of each of the pickup and return the same. Your chilling will still work fine facing the same way, as the pump will suck it in nicely. If you can turn your wort return to the left, when it comes to whirlpooling, (now do it clockwise) the total flow will be more laminar. Whirlpooling past any two objects pointing the same way will be smoother than having the outlet / inlet of each pointing in opposite directions. Hope this explains it better? My whirlpool was significantly better once I turned my wort return 180.


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## QldKev (3/11/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> I think I must be doing something wrong with my kettle finings, either getting the dose wrong or (more likely) using out of date KoppaFloc. The below pics are of the aforementioned inaugural double batch. Not shown is the full kettle, post whirlpooling and chilling, which looked pretty clear (clouds of break were too submerged to see). I used 2 2400 W elements going full-pelt and chilled the 42 L of wort to 12C within an hour, so I am confident about both hot and cold break. Unfortunately I just can't get it to flocculate. Chucked a slurry of Polyclar PPVP into the whirlpool just for fun.
> 
> I threw the hop pellets in loose for this one, for no real reason but to see the effect of the whirlpool on them. As donburke suggested, I bypassed the chiller, but at the start of the whirlpool not the end, to encourage less hop material to go through it, adding it into the loop 10 mins after flameout. Its effect on flow is noticeable but not dramatic. After turning off the pump, the chilled wort was left to settle for about 25 mins.
> 
> ...




How are you going with your whirlpool? Have you tried Brewbrite? Have you tried leaving the lid on?

Here's mine from today's Munich Helles. This is in my 'Little Bro' system a 50L keggle. The photo I posted before was on my bigger 3V setup 'Big Bro' that's kettle is a 140L pot. 






QldKev


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## squirt in the turns (3/11/12)

QldKev said:


> How are you going with your whirlpool? Have you tried Brewbrite? Have you tried leaving the lid on?
> 
> Here's mine from today's Munich Helles. This is in my 'Little Bro' system a 50L keggle. The photo I posted before was on my bigger 3V setup 'Big Bro' that's kettle is a 140L pot.
> 
> ...



Kev, we don't need any more pictures of your perfectly formed cones  

Haven't brewed since the double batch I pictured before.  But I have picked up some Brewbrite and will hopefully get another batch down within the next week. The in-laws are staying for a few weeks and they're curious about the whole AG thing, so I'll be brewing a hefeweizen so that they can witness the process and be drinking the results before they leave. Not the best style to test beer clarification techniques, but hopefully any improvements to the trub cone will be evident.


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## GuyQLD (8/11/12)

Hopefully this isn't moving off topic - For those who get really good whirlpools do you find that your hops make a difference? I generally use a hop sock and no chill so the only thing I'm looking at is hot break. Even then the best whirlpool I ever got was without using whirlfloc. Seems whenever I use whirlfloc I get fluffy break material and it just refuses to sit still. 

Having another crack at Smurto's LandLord this weekend and was thinking about giving the hop sock the flick since I want to put the styrians in really really late (last time I brought them forward so I could use the sock..)

I know some people say that'll increase trub - but with whirlpools like Qkevs, not sure if it'd make much difference. In fact I'd probably get more out. Of failing that, should I just add the hops to the sock at flameout and let it sit for it's 15 minutes anyway? After that I could pull it out and whirlpool as normal.

Yes, no, bugger it just go and make beer?


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## argon (8/11/12)

My 2c. Get yourself a false bottom for that kettle and never have to whirlpool again with crystal clear wort into cube/chiller with immediate draining of the kettle.


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