# Hops for saison/farmhouse



## bradmccoy (27/9/13)

What hops do you like to use in saisons? Am thinking of brewing one with pilsner malt and some special b, using the danstar dry saison yeast. Any thoughts?


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## Bats (27/9/13)

Styrian Goldings is usually the preferred option for this style.

I'm a creature of habbit and have only used this hop but interested to see what others have used. 

The danstar saison yeast is a great dry yeast. Liquid yeast is always better but this yeast can get pretty damn close.


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## JaseH (27/9/13)

Used Styrian, Saaz, and Hallertau M. in one I do and works well. Not sure how the Special B will go, Saisons traditionaly are light malts and maybe some wheat for a bit of tartness.


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## bradmccoy (27/9/13)

Frothie, what sort of grain bill do you usually use? I thought a touch of special b might give it a bit of complexity.


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## WarmBeer (27/9/13)

My first ever Saison was brewed with Perle @ 60 mins, 15 mins and 0 mins.

Recipe was very basic, 33% Pils, 33% Vienna, 33% Wheat malt. Belle Saison dry yeast, rehydrated as per the manufacturers instructions. Fermented at 25 degrees.

Quite possibly the best beer I've brewed.

Saison is all about the yeast, not the hops. Give is a nice, lightly hopped, slightly malty backbone, and let those esters shine through.


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## manticle (27/9/13)

Noble or something like styrian. I like hallertauer mittelfruh for a slight zesty lemon hit that complements the spicy yeast.


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## JaseH (27/9/13)

This is my regular Saison recipe:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Saison De Jaison
Brewer: Jase
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 27.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 26.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 69.8 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
3.80 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 1 74.5 % 
1.20 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 Grain 2 23.5 % 
0.10 kg Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC) Grain 3 2.0 % 
60.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.40 %] - Boil 40.0 mi Hop 4 18.8 IBUs 
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 - 
30.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.60 %] - Boil Hop 6 7.2 IBUs 
20.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.40 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop 7 3.5 IBUs 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 8 - 
28.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 9 0.0 IBUs 
1.0 pkg Farmhouse Ale (Wyeast Labs #3726PC) [124 Yeast 10 - 

Saison's are all about the yeast.


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## bradmccoy (27/9/13)

Cool, thanks. Looks good to me. Wouldn't special b and melanoidin essentialpy contribute the same sort of thing - a slight malt-sweet edge?


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## bradmccoy (27/9/13)

Looks like Styrian is the winner at this stage.


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## manticle (27/9/13)

Melanoiden is supposed to replicate the results of decoction, (bready/breadcrust/toast), spec b is a raisiny sweet crystal.

Personally I prefer continental pils with a touch of wheat, step mashed.


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## JaseH (27/9/13)

Special B is better suited to darker style ales - ie. Dubbels. It can add more plum/raisin type characters as well as color - to keep your Saison to style you want it light golden/straw color. Rules are there to be broken but traditionally for a saison think summer, dry, refreshing, tart ale with some spice.


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## OzPaleAle (27/9/13)

I have been using this guide for hop inspirations. They have a yeast guide for different styles also with descriptions of each.

http://byo.com/resources/hops


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## Charst (27/9/13)

Ive done a couple using only Hallertau M, 90% pils 10% wheat and i think its a lovely beer, not lacking anything..

I recently did the Saison Vautour clone from BYO's american Saison article and it came out quite well.


76% Wey Bo Pils
17% Wey Rye
7% home made candi sugar.

IBU 26
Ger Hallertau @60, @15 and @5
Willamette @ 15
EKG @ 5.
no chill


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## brewtas (27/9/13)

As a few guys have mentioned, additions of 10-15% of wheat or rye are good options. Spelt or oat malt can also be nice. For hops you're pretty free but I definitely prefer European hops over Americans in a Saison. Hallertau and Styrian Goldings are my defaults but EKG and Saaz are also worth a try.


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## boonchu (28/9/13)

Normally
Hallertau @ 60
Saaz @15
Styrian dry hopped

Have also used Sorachi ace as a single hop with bitter orange and black pepper.
Worked very well


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## Pickaxe (29/9/13)

Love to try sorachi ace or motueka for my first. Made a lovely snuggle hopped motueka ale, like the idea of crisp, spicy and peppery with that hop.
Anyone tried motueka?


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## Pickaxe (29/9/13)

Single, not snuggle, ******* phone. 

Sounds like a wiggles signature ale, "snuggle hopped".


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## mje1980 (29/9/13)

manticle said:


> Melanoiden is supposed to replicate the results of decoction, (bready/breadcrust/toast), spec b is a raisiny sweet crystal.
> 
> Personally I prefer continental pils with a touch of wheat, step mashed.


Any particular schedule manticle?. I have a few packs of belle saison and some dingemans pils coming. I was thinking of just doing a long low 60's then short low 70's. Not sure about protein rest though as I'm using a small percentage if raw wheat and flaked barley (5% each ).

I've only tried the belle saison once. In a dry Irish stout. Best stout I've ever made, and a great beer.


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## manticle (29/9/13)

For me it's similar to others - I just vary the rests a touch.

55/62/67/72/78
5/15/45/10/10

I mainly use 3711 and run it pretty warm so attenuation and dryness isn't a problem with 15 mins in the low 60s. Going to hit 1006 or lower no drama, dry finish but still enough body to give it life.


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## mje1980 (29/9/13)

Tah mate.


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## bradmccoy (5/11/13)

Just came across this:

"Prairie Artisan Ales - 'Merica Saison Review" http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/11/prairie-artisan-ales-merica-saison.html 

Nelson S in a saison. Wouldn't mind trying it.


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## Charst (5/11/13)

Not tried any New World Hops in a saison purely because i haven't been through enough of the traditionally used noble hops in saisons to warrant it.
Saisons are meant to have some wine like characteristics so i can see how NS could go well.

That said i would use it carefully and not over hop. You want it to be a component of the beer, and high AA hops can easily dominate.

trying it is the only way to find out though.


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## seamad (5/11/13)

I've used calypso for a few with 3711 and they go together pretty well.


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## mje1980 (5/11/13)

I tried calypso in y first saison. Supposed to add pear but I only lightly hopped it. Certainly lemon but I think that's the belle saison. I have another cube of saison in which I added a lot more calypso later in the boil. Hope to taste around Christmas.


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## bradmccoy (5/11/13)

Awesome. Let us know how your second lot goes. I've never used Calypso in anything. Will have to check it out.


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## bradmccoy (5/11/13)

Charst said:


> Not tried any New World Hops in a saison purely because i haven't been through enough of the traditionally used noble hops in saisons to warrant it.
> Saisons are meant to have some wine like characteristics so i can see how NS could go well.
> 
> That said i would use it carefully and not over hop. You want it to be a component of the beer, and high AA hops can easily dominate.
> ...


The beer linked above is 7.something ABV. So I assume it has plenty of malt to hold the hops up. But then, to what extent this allows the yeast to stand out, I don't know.


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## jlm (5/11/13)

NS in a saison is awesome. I've brewed a few with it now. An over the top commercial version is 8 Wired's Sauvin Saison which is more like a NS IPA fermented with a saison yeast (assuming Dupont is your yardstick, she's a varied style for sure....) and is an excellent beer. But with the character that a saison yeast throws you can throw quite a bit at it late and not be too worried about it dominating the beer. Within reason of course.


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## DJR (13/11/13)

I bittered my Saison with Sorachi Ace and finished with US Saaz... time will tell in the bottle if it's any good, but the lemony taste of the Sorachi was definitely there, I wouldn't use it much as a late hop though, would end up with the bad end of the Sorachi spectrum (lemon dishwash)


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## Pickaxe (13/11/13)

Been curious about sorachi ace. So is that a general thing that sorachi is lemony late- too much so?

pickaxe


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## mje1980 (15/11/13)

bradmccoy said:


> Awesome. Let us know how your second lot goes. I've never used Calypso in anything. Will have to check it out.


Drinking my second saison with calypso. I used much more late this time. I can't guarantee it's the hop, but it has a nice fruitiness in the back. It could be the yeast ( wy 3725 ), or a combo of yeast and calypso, but I think it's the calypso. Will definately use it again in saisons.


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## Pogierob (18/7/14)

Bought a saison yeast wpl568 today, 

Thought I'd give a Saison a go but wanted to go with what I have in stock.

can anyone see any major issues with below?



Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 21.00 l
Boil Size: 29.81 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 24.96 l
Final Bottling Vol: 19.60 l
Fermentation: Saison
Date: 18 Jul 2014
Brewer: Rob
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: BIAB
Efficiency: 82.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 93.7 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients *Amt* *Name* *Type* *#* *%/IBU*
5.50 kg Joe White traditional ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 91.7 %
0.50 kg Joe white wheat malt (3.5 EBC) Grain 2 8.3 %
60.00 g Styrian Goldings old batch [2.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 11.0 IBUs
50.00 g Styrian Goldings old batch [2.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 4 5.5 IBUs
10.00 g Aussie cascade [7.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 4.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Style Saison Ale Yeast Blend (White Labs #WLP568) [50.28 ml] Yeast
6 - 15.00 g Aussie cascade [7.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Bitterness: 21.1 IBUs
Est Color: 10.1 EBC 


Edit. spaced out ingredients to make it easier to read


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## mje1980 (18/7/14)

Up the Ibus IMHO but it looks good. It should ferment much lower than 1.012, closer to 1.004 or so if it's a saison strain, so be careful.


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## Pogierob (18/7/14)

mje1980 said:


> Up the Ibus IMHO but it looks good. It should ferment much lower than 1.012, closer to 1.004 or so if it's a saison strain, so be careful.


Cheers,

so what would you recommend for IBU? 25?

I figured the FG would be lower but I'm not sure how to alter that in Beersmith (if you can) as I assumed the yeast addition would have altered but it didn't


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## mje1980 (18/7/14)

I've only done a few, but I'd go 35 plus for that gravity. My current one is 38 for 1.056, but I plan on bottling this and leaving it for a good 6 months. The yeast should add some tartness but I reckon for the og it might need a little more Ibus. 

My latest is inspired from me trying saison DuPont, very dry and highly bitter, but fruity as well. Great beer .


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## tazman1967 (18/7/14)

Id drop the Cascade dry hop.
I used the French hop Triscal in my Dupont dry hopped clone. lovely. Otherwise, Id dry hop with Styrians, keep the theme of the hops going through the beer.
If you want to use American, then stay away from the "grapefruit" hops. eg. Cascade.
Use Centennial, Citra or Mosaic.


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## Tex083 (18/7/14)

If you can find Strisselspalt its a French hop variety that is probably close to what was used orignally


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## pat_00 (18/7/14)

I made one with Victoria's Secret, which was delicious.


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## mje1980 (18/7/14)

Tex083 said:


> If you can find Strisselspalt its a French hop variety that is probably close to what was used orignally


I imagine what was used originally wouldve been what was locally available surely?


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## Pogierob (18/7/14)

Does that mean my mostly locally sourced ingredients is on par with the idea? Or should I still drop the aussie cascade?


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## manticle (18/7/14)

Put the aussie cascade in if you think it will complement the flavours or if you want to find out if it will.
Personally I wouldn't dry hop but if it's what you want to do/try then do it and adjust next time depending on results.


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## Pogierob (18/7/14)

Ok so if I stick to the old styrian goldings all through and drop the cascade. 
Probably a good idea since I still have a kg of SG in the freezer kindly donated by manticle from the 5kg unknown hops. If this works out it might become a house saison for a while to use it up.


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## Adr_0 (21/10/14)

I have some Czech Saaz left over, and will probably buy some more Motueka (seem to go through a lot of that...) and some Styrian Goldings, for doing a couple of Belgians.

From Saaz, Motueka and S.Goldings, what would be a good profile for a Saison? I am aiming for 1056-1060 and probably just under 30IBU.


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## manticle (21/10/14)

Unless you want new world saison, I'd go saaz and styrian. Hop combo used in duvel. I tend towards hallertau mitt for saisons due to the slight lemon hit I get from it but any noble or noble type works well.


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## Adr_0 (21/10/14)

Cheers. 60min Saaz, 30min Saaz, 15min Styrian sound ok?


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## manticle (21/10/14)

Yep. Lovely.


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## Spiesy (20/12/14)

Going to bang out my first ever Saison tomorrow... first brew on the new Brau, so it's a double "first for".
With the hops, I'm _clearing out my closet_, or so to speak.

Saison crew - what are your thoughts?

*Saison*

BM > NC
45L batch > 75% efficiency

1046 OG / 1009 FG
4.9% alc. vol. > 4.1 SRM > 30 IBU

6.6kg Dingemans Pilsner
1.8kg Joe White Wheat
450g Dingemans Biscuit 

24g Hallertau Magnum (12%AA) @ 60 for 18 IBU
10g EKG (5.7%AA) @ 60 for 3.5 IBU
30g EKG (5.7%AA) @ 20 for 7.2 IBU
23g Styrian Golding (5.2%AA) @ flame out for 2 IBU

Brewbrite and Yeast Nutrient added

Mash Schedule:
55 for 5 / 62 for 10 / 67 for 50 / 72 for 10

Ferment with WY3724 @ 25-degrees


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## manticle (20/12/14)

Looks good but that is a lot of biscuit. Half or less.


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## Spiesy (20/12/14)

manticle said:


> Looks good but that is a lot of biscuit. Half or less.


Was another brewer's recommendation.


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## manticle (20/12/14)

I love biscuit and use it for many, many beer styles but it is a powerful malt. Saison is yeast driven - the hops and malt play supporting roles. Pils + wheat is enough but biscuit does bring something to the party. 450g though is like letting him loose in the punch bowl. I know it's a double batch but as a percentage it seems over the top and much more than I would use.


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## Spiesy (20/12/14)

Thanks for the feedback.

Just bought myself a Saison Dupont to dip my toe in the water.


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## Moad (20/12/14)

This thread made me want to do another saison. The only one ive done I fermented too cold and it was a bit dissapointing.

Takeaway is that the style is yeast driven so look after those yeasties!


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## Spiesy (21/12/14)

Really enjoyed Saison Dupont.

I've altered today's recipe to be:

7kg Dingemans Pilsner
1.5kg JW Wheat
200g Dingemans Biscuit
200g Acidulated

5g Gypsum / 5g Epsom / 7g Calcium Chloride

Hops, yeast and mash schedule as above


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## manticle (21/12/14)

Looks good spiesy. Don't be afraid if it gets hot. The one time you can pretend kit instructions make sense.


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## Spiesy (21/12/14)

manticle said:


> Looks good spiesy. Don't be afraid if it gets hot. The one time you can pretend kit instructions make sense.


Thanks mate.


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## droid (20/4/15)

How'd that turn out?


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## bradmccoy (20/4/15)

droid said:


> How'd that turn out?


Batch got infected  Seemed like a winner though, will definitely give it another go. Made a beer with similar grainbill using ale yeasts (Irish and Scottish) and it turned out well. Have half of it sitting in a container with brett.


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## droid (20/4/15)

bugger!


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## Adr_0 (20/4/15)

In thinking about this, I think Halletau and Tettnang would be a great combination for a saison - slightly leathery, spicey, tobacco with the Halletau and spicy/peppery/floral with the tettnang. I think a mix of these would complement saison yeast well, and would work if you add orange peel for e.g. Don't bitter less than 30IBU. I'm not sure what the ceiling would be as it depends on your schedule and which hops you use, but somewhere in the 30-35 range is probably ok. You want a solid bitterness for this style.


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## manticle (20/4/15)

I find hall mitt quite lemony rather than deep/tobacco but it is my hop of choice in a saison because that lemon complements the yeast spice beautifully. Tettnanger and spalt would be my next two choices


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## droid (21/4/15)

something I stumbled upon

BACHELOR’S BUTTONS
Traditional, Well-hopped Saison

Based on a recipe first home-brewed to celebrate the last days of single life for Lead Brewer Jay Sullivan in 2009, this Saison is perfect for everyday celebrations.

A hazy golden brew with a rich fluffy white head, brewed in the traditional, un-spiced Saison style typical of the south of Belgium and northern France. Bachelor’s Buttons was crafted with Canadian 2 Row, Wheat, Vienna and Rye Malts. Earthy
herbal and floral notes greet you in the nose and mingle with hints of fresh cut grass.
European hops Styrian Goldings, Saaz, Spalt and Tettnang provide a balanced counterpoint to the aroma of hay and spicy character provided by the rye malt and bright fruitiness from our house Belgian yeast.


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## droid (21/4/15)

^I think it won a gold medal but I posted it because the hops seem to be bang on with what some here have done or are considering doing, wonder what sort of hop schedule ?


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