# Cascade First Harvest 2009



## AussieJosh (17/8/09)

Yesterday my friend gave me a cascade first harvest 2009. To be honest i very much enjoyed it! From my undertsanding only 4300 cartns were made. Have any of you tried it and what did you think? 
Also have any of you used fresh hops in a brew before?
Here is the link to (THE AUSTRALIAN) artical about the beer.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-14440,00.html


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## benny_bjc (17/8/09)

AussieJosh said:


> Yesterday my friend gave me a cascade first harvest 2009. To be honest i very much enjoyed it! From my undertsanding only 4300 cartns were made. Have any of you tried it and what did you think?
> Also have any of you used fresh hops in a brew before?
> Here is the link to (THE AUSTRALIAN) artical about the beer.
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-14440,00.html



Yeah, I bought a 6-pack of this a while ago. To be honest I was quite dissapointed. Hardly any aroma and not much hop flavour.... just lots of resiny flavour and bitterness which was ok. If it had a bit more hop aroma and flavour this would be a much nicer beer IMO. 

Especially considering I bought this beer for about $26 I was expecting something better.... I can buy coopers vintage for 21-22$ and that is a superb beer!

Just my opinion though....


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## sinkas (17/8/09)

AussieJosh said:


> Yesterday my friend gave me a cascade first harvest 2009. To be honest i very much enjoyed it! From my undertsanding only 4300 cartns were made. Have any of you tried it and what did you think?
> Also have any of you used fresh hops in a brew before?
> Here is the link to (THE AUSTRALIAN) artical about the beer.
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-14440,00.html




I used about 500g of fresh cascade in a ESB early this year, or late last year, whene er they were picked, nice, but not that hoppy (my neigbour brewed the esb and I just stole 10 L of wort to brew with the hops in)[thats why its an esb] { I dont want comments on how noone puts cascade in esb's}


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## benno1973 (17/8/09)

I tried it last year and loved it. Yes, it's a fairly sweet resiny flavour, but I definitely think that the hop flavour comes through. Definitely something different, and can't wait to get my hands on this years release...


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

I fell in love with the '08 of this particular brew but was left disappointed with the '09.
I thought this years vintage had an almost lager flavour that the previous didn't have. The fact that the '08 had benefited from a few extra months ageing in the bottle may be a influencing factor. The '09 I had was a little green I think but just didn't have the nice hop flavour I noticed from the '08. It would be interesting to note any differences in the recipes from year to year. 
I'll still be putting a brew in using fresh hop flowers eventually, picked from the back yard.


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## HoppingMad (17/8/09)

Enjoyed the First Harvest last year. Will have to give it a gander for this time round. 

Slightly off topic but had Cascade Green on tap the other day and it tasted terrible - tasted, well green actually :blink: . Underfermented with a cut apple flavour. 

Hopefully the new batch of Cascade First Harvest doesn't disappoint like that stuff did.

Hopper.


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## GMK (17/8/09)

2008 was real good...

2009 is real sh!t....

not worth the 21.00


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## discoloop (17/8/09)

The Australian article quotes "three experimental varieties of hops...guy fawkes, mill line and strickland falls". Anyone know anything about them?


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## Brewbloke (17/8/09)

GMK said:


> 2008 was real good...
> 
> 2009 is real sh!t....
> 
> not worth the 21.00



I second that motion, 2009 seems very dull.


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## hazard (17/8/09)

AussieJosh said:


> Yesterday my friend gave me a cascade first harvest 2009. To be honest i very much enjoyed it! From my undertsanding only 4300 cartns were made. Have any of you tried it and what did you think?
> Also have any of you used fresh hops in a brew before?
> Here is the link to (THE AUSTRALIAN) artical about the beer.
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...4-14440,00.html


I had a stubbie last week. Only the merest hint of hops in the flavour and aroma. I think its a waste of time. But I've been trying a few english beers lately, and if you want hops flavour then go for a real british ale like TTL, Ringwood Old Thumper, Fiddlers Elbow etc etc.


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## HoppingMad (17/8/09)

discoloop said:


> The Australian article quotes "three experimental varieties of hops...guy fawkes, mill line and strickland falls". Anyone know anything about them?



Don't know anything about these hops specifically flavourwise - but previous early harvest beers have featured at least one hop from an experimental 'hop nursery'. I think it's based in Tassie - Bushy Park I believe is the area if I recall correctly. 

So would figure at least one of the three will be of Tassie origin and not widely available yet so you wouldn't find much doing a search (probaby obvious that something would come from there considering it's a tassie beer, but that's what I heard).

Hopper.


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## Pollux (18/8/09)

Glad to see I'm not the only one who was disappointed by this years release....

I would have said something earlier but last time I gave a negative review of a commercial beer I was berated by a certain individual who believes all limited releases should see us on our knees with the head brewers balls on our chin.....


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## Effect (18/8/09)

i'm not too surprised that it isn't good...

I wouldn't expect a mega-lager brewer to be able to make a beer worthy of $20+ a six pack. Would put their reputation in jeopardy.


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## Dazza_devil (18/8/09)

Last years Vintage was worth the money IMO.
Cascade do make some nice beers occasionally. The stout isn't too bad and I have drunk the pale ale in copious quantities but that was before my palate matured.
Interestingly I emailed Cascade regarding a recipe for their Pale Ale and got the following response,

"Thank you for taking the time to contact us at Cascade.

Producing an exact copy of our Pale Ale using a homebrew kit is a tough ask. 

Youd have to purchase pale malt (Gairdner variety) grown in Tasmania - yes it does make a difference. Crush the malt then mash, clarify and boil the liquid (for 90 minutes). Add hops (Pride of Ringwood) at the start of boil and 10 minutes from the end. Add adjuncts (liquid sugar - at 30% of total carbohydrates). Then cool the liquid (called wort) to 14 deg C and add the yeast (this last bit is a bit tricky because you cant purchase our yeast). When the fermentation starts keep the temperature at 14-16 degrees C for the duration of the fermentation; the fermentation will take at least 7 days. Cool the fermentation down to 4 degrees C thus allowing most of the yeast to settle in the bottom of the vessel. Transfer to sterile bottles and add a spoon of sugar for CO2 production. 

I havent included volumes and weights because unless you have a large capacity and lots of spare cash and time it is beyond the means of most home brewers. Your best and easiest option is to purchase a can of Cascade Imperial Voyage - and dissolve the extract in hot water (>80 degrees C) and add the secret ingredient - plain white sugar, homebrew shop attendants would faint at this suggestion because it costs a fraction of what they would sell you. All the good stuff is already in the extract why bother changing a good product and spending more money? 

Depending on Alcohol content add 1 kg for about 4.7% and 1.5 kg for a bit over 5% (Pale Ale). Thoroughly mix and make up to about 20L. 

IMPORTANT: Do not add the yeast sachet to the vessel as it will slow down the fermentation. The better option is to collect about 50 -100 mL of the warm liquid into a clean/sterile container and cool it to room temperature, when cooled add the sachet of yeast, close the lid and shake well for a minute or so. Allow the container to sit at room temperature for 4 - 6 hours giving it a good shake every hour or so, please release any pressure build up during this time. At the end of the hydration period add the entire content to the fermentation vessel. After 7 - 8 days at 20 degrees C you should have a pretty decent drop of beer, allow the vessel to sit in a cool place for a further 2 days before transferring the beer to bottles. 

It is very important to check the gravity of the beer before bottling otherwise bottles may explode - the final gravity should be below 1007. 

Following these steps and using plain old white sugar should give you a pretty decent drop of beer closely resembling our Pale Ale.

Please contact us again should you have any further queries we can assist you with."


It gives you some idea of where they are at down there.


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## Pollux (18/8/09)

> I havent included volumes and weights because unless you have a large capacity and lots of spare cash and time it is beyond the means of most home brewers.



Am I the only one who chuckled at that???


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## discoloop (18/8/09)

> Interestingly I emailed Cascade regarding a recipe for their Pale Ale and got the following response



My level of respect for Cascade increased about tenfold based on the level and quality of help that actually was provided. I'd be very surprised if any brewery would just give out their recipe in HB-scaled quantities but the above response was genuinely helpful. 

- Single malt
- 30% sugar
- Single hop - 2 additions

That basically only leaves you second guessing the IBU and yeast strain. I'd say the Cascade brewery is old enough to have its own yeast strain, so we'd be out of luck there but the info above info is a great help for getting a reasonable approximation of the style. 10 points to Cascade, if you ask me!


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## technocat (18/8/09)

Myself and some other AG brewers drank First Harvest in keg form at the last Hopsters night at the New Sydney hotel Hobart. Cascade had a Rep at the gathering to give a spiel on First Harvest and to be honest all I can remember of it was that it was rare to be in a keg as it was made for bottling. General consensus among brewers was not a bad brew but nothing extraordinary. BWS are asking $80.00 a case in Hobart and IMO not worth the money. 


<_<


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## beerDingo (18/8/09)

I tried it a little while ago, and was very unimpressed. Wasn't a bad beer as such, but considering it was a "first harvest", I was expecting a lot of hop aroma and flavor, which just was not there. It seemed very bland to me.


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## Dazza_devil (18/8/09)

discoloop said:


> My level of respect for Cascade increased about tenfold based on the level and quality of help that actually was provided. I'd be very surprised if any brewery would just give out their recipe in HB-scaled quantities but the above response was genuinely helpful.
> 
> - Single malt
> - 30% sugar
> ...



Too true discoloop.
I wasn't even expecting a response and the lady went to the trouble of a detailed reply in the best way she could. I followed up with a few more questions regarding yeast, grains and hops. 
It'll be interesting to see if I receive any further comments from them.
I was surprised to see they ferment it at almost lager temps. Perhaps they are using traditional temps, it gets cold down there and they have been there for a long time. When was the refridgerator invented?
Perhaps it would be worthwhile someone enquiring about the First Harvest and see how much info Cascade are willing to part with regarding it's ingredients and brewing procedures, including any yearly deviations.


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## discoloop (18/8/09)

Conventional wisdom is that the pale ale is, despite the name, in fact a lager. The ferment temp would seem to confirm this. 

The yeast probably isn't a couple of hundred years old, but could quite plausibly have been in the Cascade stable for 70 or 80 years.


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## ah_glenno (18/8/09)

any chance of getting some yeast from the bottle? or does it ALL fall out of suspension when lagering?


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## Dazza_devil (18/8/09)

gen said:


> any chance of getting some yeast from the bottle? or does it ALL fall out of suspension when lagering?




I would say Buckley's and none.


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## brettprevans (18/8/09)

14-16C for 7 day ferment... a lager you recon discloop. well i suppose it could a cal common type hybrid ale/lager


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## AussieJosh (18/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> Too true discoloop.
> I wasn't even expecting a response and the lady went to the trouble of a detailed reply in the best way she could. I followed up with a few more questions regarding yeast, grains and hops.
> It'll be interesting to see if I receive any further comments from them.
> I was surprised to see they ferment it at almost lager temps. Perhaps they are using traditional temps, it gets cold down there and they have been there for a long time. When was the refridgerator invented?
> Perhaps it would be worthwhile someone enquiring about the First Harvest and see how much info Cascade are willing to part with regarding it's ingredients and brewing procedures, including any yearly deviations.



You mean this Beer talk came from a WOMAN!!!??? :icon_drool2:


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## discoloop (18/8/09)

> 14-16C for 7 day ferment... a lager you recon discloop. well i suppose it could a cal common type hybrid ale/lager



That was kind of my thinking. Not necessarily that particular yeast, but something along the lines of a bottom-fermenting yeast that stands up to a warmer fermentation regime. I'd say most lager yeasts would hum along at that speed at that temp, Cascade have probably just found/developed a strain that doesn't throw off strange flavours at that temp.

The Fosters site suggests the beer is a lager. (http://www.fosters.com.au/enjoy/beer/cascadepaleale.htm) It wouldn't be the first time an Australian lager was given an English-styled ale name....


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## Dazza_devil (18/8/09)

AussieJosh said:


> You mean this Beer talk came from a WOMAN!!!??? :icon_drool2:


 Yes mate, and I have a first name and phone number.



discoloop said:


> That was kind of my thinking. Not necessarily that particular yeast, but something along the lines of a bottom-fermenting yeast that stands up to a warmer fermentation regime. I'd say most lager yeasts would hum along at that speed at that temp, Cascade have probably just found/developed a strain that doesn't throw off strange flavours at that temp.
> 
> The Fosters site suggests the beer is a lager. (http://www.fosters.com.au/enjoy/beer/cascadepaleale.htm) It wouldn't be the first time an Australian lager was given an English-styled ale name....


I asked about the yeast in my reply, questioning how I would go with a lager yeast or perhaps Nottingham at those temps. 
So the reason that the '09 First Harvest tasted like a lager was because it is?


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## Dazza_devil (19/8/09)

She's come good again.
_
"We suggest you use Lager yeast for low temperature fermentations. Ale yeasts are better suited to temperatures above 20 deg C which is why they are often included/used for home brewing. If youre planning a low temperature fermentation (14 - 18 deg C) go with the Lager yeast. Irrespective of variety the hydration step is of critical importance and will get the fermentation off to a good start - this is important because this when the brew is at it's most vulnerable to infection.

Liquid sugar is ordinary white crystal sugar dissolved in warm water - the yeast excretes an enzyme called Invertase that converts the Sucrose to Glucose and Fructose so why bother using anything but ordinary sugar. Your OG will be about 1040 - 1045 depending on amount of sugar added and because most of the added Carbohydrates are fully fermentable the residual should be 1005 -1007 a beer at or below this gravity will not cause the bottles to explode during secondary fermentation. Please validate with a hydrometer to ensure the fermentation is complete.

If youre starting from scratch add Pride of Ringwood hop pellets only - Pale Ale is 100% Pride. Go easy on the hops because the bitterness of this product ranges between 21.5 and 24.5 BU. You can add a little Crystal malt if youre after a darker colour however our Pale Ale is 70% Pale Malt and 30% adjuncts (primarily sucrose) with a colour of 6.5 - 7.5 EBC.

Good Luck."
_


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## discoloop (19/8/09)

Wow, you've just about cloned yourself a Cascade Pale Ale! Still no straight answer about what type of yeast they use but the rest is just about there:

70% Gairdner Pale Malt (Is this available from anywhere?)
30% White sugar
POR bittered to 21-25 IBU
A small late POR addition

Dead simple.


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## brettprevans (19/8/09)

maybe they figure no one is drinking the stuff so bugger it some one may as brew it!

its uncprecidented that a brewery would be so upfront with its recipes. (well there a few but not in Aust)


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## Dazza_devil (19/8/09)

Now I can brew it and improve on it to my tastes.
I don't know if you can buy the Gairdner Pale Malt here or not but it might be worthwhile me looking into it when I start AG.
I reckon they would use the same yeast in the First Harvest and it's a Lager yeast. 
I saw an interview with Head Brewer Max Burslem on the news just after the release of '09 First Harvest and he stated that his favourite was the Pale Ale.
On the First Harvest stubbie it states 'dew soaked, green hops are combined with new season pale malt, Cascade's exclusive yeast and Tasmanian water. The result is a limited edition, handcrafted _ALE_ with a full malt character.
Tastes like a lager to me, maybe it's something I ate.


Edit; fine detail


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## DJR (19/8/09)

Wow, that is excellent info.

Barrett Burston pale malt is 60% Gairdner so there's a start, it'll be a bit lighter than 7EBC diluted out though (more like 3EBC or so). Cascade run their own maltings (and must kiln the malt a bit darker) so you wouldn't get the same stuff (although you can buy it from them if you really want it - you have to buy 500kg minimum though i've heard). There is a Joe White maltings in Devonport, not sure how you would go about ordering directly from there.

Yeast choice would have to either be good ol' W34/70 (WLP830/WY2124) or Carlsberg (WY 2042). 15/16 degree lager ferments are common in Aus mega breweries, particularly under pressure and high gravity (both the pressure and gravity keep the esters low).

You could also use Mauribrew Lager yeast for a bit of an aussie touch, i'm sure that would taste fine if trying to clone the style as it is fairly clean and responds well to higher temps.

I think it's a special touch the "you wouldn't bother since it's so expensive" comment - typical of mega breweries to tout the line that you can't make anything that good at home and you can just get a can, and in the process slag off homebrew shops


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## Dazza_devil (19/8/09)

DJR said:


> There is a Joe White maltings in Devonport, not sure how you would go about ordering directly from there.



Apparently they only sell to Boags.
Not to Boagsy.


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