# Kk Co2 Bottles - Any Good?



## Hubby (16/4/09)

Been a while since I've been on here ... just wondering if anyone has purchased a Keg King CO2 bottle and if they're any good (NB: I've seen the spam posts by Keg King and am not impressed). 

The price just seems too good to be true and they state they are AS2030 compliant: http://www.kegking.com.au/gasbottlesandregulators.html ... and ... http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CO2-Carbon-Dioxide-...410126001r17609. 

FYI, I've made enquiries with to SafeWork SA to find out about this specific registration of CO2 plant ... ie seems a bit odd that they are selling out of VIC, the registered office is in VIC ( http://www.mchaustralia.com/ ) but have gone to SA to have the CO2 bottle designs registered for compliance with AS2030 (This can be done in VIC too) - could be a very plausible reason for this.

Will let you know how it goes


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## unterberg (16/4/09)

Let us know what you found out. I have seen those today as well and thought thats a good deal. That always makes you wonder if there is a catch...


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## real_beer (16/4/09)

Hubby said:


> Been a while since I've been on here ... just wondering if anyone has purchased a Keg King CO2 bottle and if they're any good (NB: I've seen the spam posts by Keg King and am not impressed).


 :icon_offtopic: 
I wouldn't be to impressed with them if I lived in NSW either, I've seen shabby standards of quality control on web pages before but this is ridiculous for a bussiness site http://www.kegking.com.au/stores.html

Cheers from Westurn Oustralia :icon_cheers:


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## Hubby (22/4/09)

The reasearch continues ... the design per AS2030 is legit. However, bottles must ALSO be stamped to comply with AS2875, AND imported bottles must have details of the accredited testing service stamped as well. No stamping, then no re-fill.


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## mitysa (4/5/09)

Hi,

Any more news regarding kegking cylinders???

are they worth it (the risk)
also looking at them today



mike


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## Hubby (5/5/09)

Okay, the short answer is: they can't answer a couple of simple questions :angry: 



Hubby said:


> ... bottles must ALSO be stamped to comply with AS2875, AND imported bottles must have details of the accredited testing service stamped as well. No stamping, then no re-fill.



Therefore, if you're after a bottle which complies with all Aust Stds and State pressure vessel requirements ... don't bother unless you can see them before purchase and can validate all stampings. Their list of agents is impressive but do these agents in fact know they are listed on the website? I'd suggest not.

I wouldn't waste my money!


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## MrChris (20/6/09)

Hubby said:


> Okay, the short answer is: they can't answer a couple of simple questions :angry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is confirmed in Brisbane. Visited a number of stores today and could not get it filled up anywhere, they all refused.


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## daemon (20/6/09)

MrChris said:


> This is confirmed in Brisbane. Visited a number of stores today and could not get it filled up anywhere, they all refused.


For what reason did they refuse?


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## Greeno (22/6/09)

Daemon said:


> For what reason did they refuse?




Any update on this??


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## MrChris (22/6/09)

Greeno said:


> Any update on this??



Reasoning given was something to do with a pending lawsuit and that they do not meet Australian Standards, was in a rush to get the thing filled that day so didn't stick around to find out all the details. All stores I visited were listed on KK's website as swapping or refilling their CO2 cylinder.


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## Greeno (24/6/09)

MrChris said:


> Reasoning given was something to do with a pending lawsuit and that they do not meet Australian Standards, was in a rush to get the thing filled that day so didn't stick around to find out all the details. All stores I visited were listed on KK's website as swapping or refilling their CO2 cylinder.




So what did you do? buy a new bottle?


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## domonsura (25/6/09)

We sell 2.6kg Keg King bottles. They are compliant, have been hydrostatically tested by the manufacturer and hydrostatically tested again by a licenced Australian test station (Selby's testing in Victoria), stamped with MP48 registered number and test date. 
Having also personally had the bottles inspected by a local hydrostatic testing & filling station with many years experience, and been told that they have the correct design registered and approved and having been individually tested - they meet compliance and legal requirements in all ways required for the bottles to be filled in Australia. Simple as that. 

I cannot comment on the information provided by or the decisions made by other businesses interstate or otherwise because it's their perogative to make those decisions as they see fit, but I am happy to fill the bottles that _we _have as my advice says that all the details stack up.

For the record I am also fully aware that we are listed on the KK website, and overall I have found Kee @ KK to be polite and helpful. I'm not sure that he deserves the criticism that his business is receiving. What he does deserve as a retailer/wholesaler who's putting his time and money on the line to provide products that we can do with at a fair price - is a fair go. Something that too often retailers don't get on here when the mud starts getting slung around by people who in some cases seem to have registered specifically to make their comments anonymously.........

These bottles are currently in stock can be inspected by any interested party.

regards
Wayne


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## Bribie G (25/6/09)

I saw some in Bribie Home Brew n bits the other day. They look the goods and would be great with a kegerator. However the store only does swaps and it concerns me that if I spend $230 and either KK go bust or Bribie Home Brew likewise I'm stuck with an expensive boat anchor, if the local gas dealer won't fill them.


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## MrChris (26/6/09)

I have heard back from the guys at KK and they have informed me of a store down at underwood that they guarantee will fill the cylinder. Will post back my experiences once done.

I was never having a go at them, but I cannot refute the fact that a number of stores listed on their website as 'partners' refused service. There was no 'mud slinging', just stating facts. 

P.S. I am not a user that has created a new 'anonymous' account to post these details, I challenge the forum moderators to confirm this by checking my IP address.


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## MHB (26/6/09)

A guy brought a Keg King bottle into my shop last Friday just at a glance it's missing 3 of the required pieces of information, namely: -

1) Design approval/registration no

2) Australian Test Station mark 

3) Manufacturers name

Bear in mind that I make a profit from filling bottles; but the fine for filling noncompliant bottles is up to $27,500 and I get workcover on my arse (never good).

Mind you it's a better looking bottle than some of the very dodgy bottles that get dragged in.






MHB


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## domonsura (26/6/09)

Fair comment MHB, I'm not sure that they are the same bottles though, as mine appear to have all those details. The way I look at it is that Selbys (the hydro testing station in VIC) that tests & stamps the bottles I have is prepared to put their business and licence to operate on the line, and so is the local hydro place Fire Systems Service - and initially it's up to them to assess that the bottle complies before they even consider stamping it because they are liable for it. Both are prepared to fill the bottle. Both are much bigger businesses than mine, with much more expertise so I'm happy to rely on their professional advice. Not disagreeing with the rules and regulations, they are there to keep us safe after all. Having been in the room when an oxy bottle has been knocked over and taken flight, I can attest to the fact that bottles are not a plaything ....Scared the living bejeeezus out of me.


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## Murcluf (26/6/09)

Being a former certified hydotester I followed this thread with interest and decided to do some investigating for myself. The KK bottles I have seen do meet Australian Standards and I have had it confirmed that they need to be tested prior to being refilled. So if they have a test stamp which is in date they are fine if they don't they need to be tested first, prior to refilling. That can at any of the hydrotesting sites listed on the KK website. If there are LHBS selling them without a test stamps perhaps they should contact KK to get them swapped for ones that have been tested before selling them to unsuspecting punters who are not up scratch on this issue.


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## MHB (26/6/09)

I would rather fill a bottle than not.

But like I said, the one that came in was lacking the details.



MHB


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## Hubby (10/7/09)

Looks like I hit a raw nerve for some - chill, have a beer and read on :blink: 



Murcluf said:


> Being a former certified hydotester I followed this thread with interest and decided to do some investigating for myself. The KK bottles I have seen do meet Australian Standards and I have had it confirmed that they need to be tested prior to being refilled. So if they have a test stamp which is in date they are fine if they don't they need to be tested first, prior to refilling. That can at any of the hydrotesting sites listed on the KK website. If there are LHBS selling them without a test stamps perhaps they should contact KK to get them swapped for ones that have been tested before selling them to unsuspecting punters who are not up scratch on this issue.


I was able to confirm the CO2 cylinder design per AS2030 was legit through SA - no problems there. However as I stated previously, I found out that they must also meet AS2875, and if they were imported, that they must be tested and stamped to show testing. This is the actual e-mail I received in April 2009 from the Chief Advisor - Engineering, Safework SA, regarding my query:



> I confirm this is the design registration number for this particular CO2 cylinder, and the design registration is recognised throughout Australia.
> 
> Under AS 2030, and under our design registration requirements, the design registration number (SD 20081074-1) must be stamped on each cylinder. In addition, the cylinder must be permanently stamped with information as stipulated in AS 2875, including the name of manufacturer, serial number , water capacity, test pressure, date of testing.
> 
> An imported cylinder must be inspected by an accredited gas cylinder test station in Australia before it can be refilled. You must be able to see the gas cylinder test station stamping (in the form of a cylinder logo + registration number). If this is not on the cylinder , it cannot be refilled.


Murcluf, can you clarify if the KK cylinders actually meet these additional requirements?

After receiving the e-mail from Safework SA, I directed these queries to the seller and they/he could not answer these questions. I was simply told that the AS2030 "certificate" would suffice. (I note the link to this file has been removed from the website - curious?).

If someone can clear these issues up, then that would be brilliant. 

If not, then I say, continue with caution.

Also, if they are still a viable option, does anyone have a ball park cost for testing to make them compliant? Can anyone post a picture of what sort of markings / stampings we should expect to see on a fully compliant imported CO2 cylinder?


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## glaab (10/7/09)

I got mine from Beerbelly, it has all those stamps inc "gas cylinder test station stamping (in the form of a cylinder logo + registration number)". I dont know the actual design reg number for the bottle , it has 302372 stamped on so maybe thats it. Amanda at Beerbelly told me they had a previous batch with no test station logo& reg num which came with a certificate but she sent them back. Hope that helps. Cheers


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## Hubby (10/7/09)

glaab said:


> I got mine from Beerbelly, it has all those stamps inc "gas cylinder test station stamping (in the form of a cylinder logo + registration number)". I dont know the actual design reg number for the bottle , it has 302372 stamped on so maybe thats it. Amanda at Beerbelly told me they had a previous batch with no test station logo& reg num which came with a certificate but she sent them back. Hope that helps. Cheers


Glaab, the design reg no is SD 20081074-1 - according to the document link which has now mysteriously disappeared from their website - and must be stamped on the bottle (ie if it was manufactured per this design). As I understand, the stamping requirements should be per the Safework SA e-mail.


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## altone (12/7/09)

Hubby said:


> Glaab, the design reg no is SD 20081074-1 - according to the document link which has now mysteriously disappeared from their website - and must be stamped on the bottle (ie if it was manufactured per this design). As I understand, the stamping requirements should be per the Safework SA e-mail.



So it needs to be stamped on? - mine only seems to have it on a sticker - it does have the testing stamp though.
Don't want any nasty suprises when I go to get a refill.


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## jdonly1 (12/7/09)

boddingtons best said:


> So it needs to be stamped on? - mine only seems to have it on a sticker - it does have the testing stamp though.
> Don't want any nasty suprises when I go to get a refill.


I just swapped my empty one out out keg king in Springvale,top guy to deal with  and only $25 bucks changer over.Very happy


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## altone (12/7/09)

jdonly1 said:


> I just swapped my empty one out out keg king in Springvale,top guy to deal with  and only $25 bucks changer over.Very happy



That's what I want to hear ... does your newly swapped bottle have all 3 stamps? if so then it should be refillable just about anywhere.


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## jdonly1 (12/7/09)

boddingtons best said:


> That's what I want to hear ... does your newly swapped bottle have all 3 stamps? if so then it should be refillable just about anywhere.


Yep,new bottle is stamped  
All though on there sticker is say that you will void warranty if filled at any other place othere than a keg king refill station.I wouldnt be to concerned about that though


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## keedoery (1/10/09)

jdonly1 said:


> Yep,new bottle is stamped
> All though on there sticker is say that you will void warranty if filled at any other place othere than a keg king refill station.I wouldnt be to concerned about that though



Hello Guys,

It's Kee here from Keg King. I dont usually go onto these forums unless I am looking for some mashing tips but when you see a thread that is about your own business I guess you feel compelled to say something.

Hydrostatic Test Stamp
All our cylinder are hydrostatically tested twice before they are released. They are done the first time when the cylinder is manufactured and also a second time just before the vales are put into the cylinders. Most of them are now processed in batch sizes of approximately 1000 units at a time. After all the cylinders have been valved they go to the next stage where they are all manually stamped with the test station mark. From time to time it is possible that a cylinder can be missed during the samping process and once they enter circulation they are particularly difficult to find. However if any of you out there have a cylinder that requires stamping, we can easily do that for you as we are a certified hydrostatic test station. If this is the case, just wait until your cylinder is empty and call me. I will organise a courier to pick the cylinder up from your house bring it back here for stamping, fill the cylinder up, then send the cylinder back to you. I will only charge you $25 for the refill but I will cover all other costs.

Pending lawsuit
I few comments back someone mentioned that there was some kind of pending lawsuit with Work Cover? This is absolutely false. Work cover has never had an issue with our cylinders and I have never heard anything about a lawsuit from them or anyone else for that matter about our cylinders. This rumour has been started by Mark Dutton from My Kegs On Legs and I have spoken to him on numerous occations to stop doing this. Our cylinders have been certified by Work Cover themselves so it would be absurd for them to then turn around and complain about our cylinders when they are the ones who approved them in the first place. The whole romour is crazy and I invite anyone to call work cover directly to get the facts. I think it's a poor display display to see one competitor slander another competitors product just to make more sales. Especially if the accusations have no base whatsoever.

Anyway, that's probably enough of me harping on about it. If any of you have any further questions about cylinders/testing/stamping/certificates please call, email me, or come and see me. I'm always happy to talk to a visitor at our warehouse. Our contact details are on the website and you can email me directly at [email protected]

Regards,

Kee


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## brando (1/10/09)

KegKing said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> It's Kee here from Keg King. I dont usually go onto these forums unless I am looking for some mashing tips but when you see a thread that is about your own business I guess you feel compelled to say something.
> 
> ...




Kee, you might want to reconsider your post.


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## huscre (8/10/09)

A while back I bought a KegKing Fridge + CO2 bottle from eBay. *dodges barage of epmpties*
At the time I had no idea about all of this negativity towards KK in the AHB community. So far the equipment has been great, but soon I'm going to need to refill my KK CO2 bottle for the first time.

According to KegKing it will be a painless $25 swap n' go at my local listed refilling station. But I've also been advised in person that nobody will fill it but KK and I'll be up for >$100 in postage everytime i want a refill, so I may as well throw it out and buy a different CO2 bottle.

I'll post back when I have something objective to report , good or bad..


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## glaab (8/10/09)

huscre said:


> A while back I bought a KegKing Fridge + CO2 bottle from eBay. *dodges barage of epmpties*
> At the time I had no idea about all of this negativity towards KK in the AHB community. So far the equipment has been great, but soon I'm going to need to refill my KK CO2 bottle for the first time.
> 
> According to KegKing it will be a painless $25 swap n' go at my local listed refilling station. But I've also been advised in person that nobody will fill it but KK and I'll be up for >$100 in postage everytime i want a refill, so I may as well throw it out and buy a different CO2 bottle.
> ...



"advised in person" by whom? How far away is Regal Heights, 10kms? That sounds painless enough.
I can get refills no problem from the local mob "ceasefire" fire prevention services about 1km away who have nothing to do with KKing. The only places I would expect to get knocked back is BOC or AirLiquide who don't refill on site and of course don't have the same bottles to swap. This whole thread has been blown out of proportion, the bottles are fine your'e worrying about nothing. Cheers


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## huscre (8/10/09)

glaab said:


> "advised in person" by whom? How far away is Regal Heights, 10kms? That sounds painless enough.



Yeah regal heights is pretty darn close. I just rang All Things Brewing, they said they do refills for the KK bottles for $30. Sounds great to me so what's all the fuss about? I must be missing something because all the negativity todwards KK seems unjustified, at least in my experience so far. I was informed by someone who was either misinformed, or was misleading me. Time will tell.



glaab said:


> This whole thread has been blown out of proportion, the bottles are fine your'e worrying about nothing. Cheers



Agreed. I'll report back again if I have any troubles getting it refilled, but thus far it all sounds hunky dory.


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## n4077113 (4/11/09)

For Brivegas brewers.....

Im about to purchase one.

There arent many "Keg King refill stations" in brisbane but I called James at Wacol Brewers choice (as per KK website) and he said he definitely fills them (he was very chirpy and confident about that) and he quoted $20 for the refill!

All seems good to me......


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## MarkBastard (20/1/10)

Any more feedback on these cylinders?


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## huscre (20/1/10)

I had mine filled up at all-things-brewing the other week in Albion Park and couldn't be happier.
No guilt trip, no hassles. They just checked the certification and filled it up on the spot for twenty-something bucks.
My main reason for going with the KK CO2 bottle in the first place was their size - They fit perfectly in my beer fridge.
Damned if I'm having an ugly giant green CO2 bottle sitting next to my shiny new keg fridge, nor am I willing to sit my fridge 20cm off the wall to store a CO2 bottle behind it. That would make the whole setup look tacky.

I was warned that keeping my CO2 bottle in the fridge is a bad idea since "the gas will change state" and not work properly. Last time I checked my keg fridge can't get down to -78.51 degrees celsius so I'm not too concerned about my CO2 changing state... Anyway, it's been making great beers for many months now and I couldn't be happier with my KK CO2 bottle (and fridge for that matter). The cheap-ass regulator it came with is a bit finnicky when you are changing the pressure back from force-carbing so I might upgrade it one day, but it's hardly as troublesome as the other retailers would have you believe.


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## MarkBastard (20/1/10)

Thanks for the feedback mate.

I'm 99% sold on this. Just need more info regarding refilling it in Brisbane. So far all I've heard is a brew shop in Wacol will refill them.

How long did refilling take for you? Is it something you can wait around for? Wacol is 45 minutes from me.

I've heard you can refill these at some fire extinguisher places but I'm finding it hard to find the locations for these places on google etc.


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## glaab (20/1/10)

refilling takes 5-10 mins tops


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## huscre (20/1/10)

No worries Mate,

Refilling at the LHBS took a few minutes.. maybe 5 minutes.. You know, just long enough to get bored and start impulse buying 

I also liked that it's not a swap n' go. Wouldn't want my new shiny CO2 bottle being swapped with someone else's rusty old tin.


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## glaab (20/1/10)

huscre said:


> No worries Mate,
> 
> Refilling at the LHBS took a few minutes.. maybe 5 minutes.. You know, just long enough to get bored and start impulse buying
> 
> I also liked that it's not a swap n' go. Wouldn't want my new shiny CO2 bottle being swapped with someone else's rusty old tin.



I got a new one last yr, when the stamp is nearly out of date I'll exchange it then


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## MarkBastard (22/1/10)

Cheers thanks guys. Looks the goods.


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## [email protected] (6/3/10)

JUst out of interest I recently purchased a MKOL cylinder, when it arrived I went to have it filled guess what no date stamp, had testers ID but no date luckily the refiller stamped it for me as it was obviously brand new.
cheers John


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## whitegoose (5/6/10)

So I just swapped my gas bottle (it was a greenish brew craft bottle) for a greay keg king 2.6kg bottle exactly like this one






Anyway I;ve got it home, cranked the tap open, and nothing is coming aout at all. I've never had one of these gas bottles - is there some kind of trick to them, or is it empty? I tried hooking it up to my dorado regulator and still nothing.

The shop I swapped it at is shut now and won't be open till Tuesday as we have a public holiday in Perth on Monday.


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## Frank (5/6/10)

I am guessing it is empty. Put it on the scales and see what the weight is. It should have the Tare weight stamped around the neck of the bottle to compare with.


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## domonsura (5/6/10)

Full it should weigh 10.1kg give or take a few grams - empty it will weigh roughly 7.5kg.


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## whitegoose (5/6/10)

domonsura said:


> Full it should weigh 10.1kg give or take a few grams - empty it will weigh roughly 7.5kg.




Sweet thanks guys - it weighs about 7.4kg so it must be empty.

So pissed off.


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## AussieJosh (16/9/10)

Hey guys! 

I was looking on ebay and i foud a person selling a few of the KK 4L 2.6Kg new kegs for 149.99 + 19.99 P&H. This seems to be the cheapest option i can find. I just would like to know if anyone here knows of many places in Adelaide that are happy to refill them.?

Preferably areound the north east.


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## Jazman (16/9/10)

Beer belly at pooraka fills em or the is a fire ext joint in wingfield who does fills as well also beerbelly sells the 6 kg keg king bottle as well for a little bit more than the 2.6 litre one


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## lukiferj (26/5/13)

Dredging up an old thread...

So it turns out my almost empty gas bottle is not refillable (air liquide or some such). I have had this bottle for over 10 years. It was given to me as a birthday present with a couple of kegs. I'm looking at getting one of these KK 6kg numbers as they seem to be quite a bit cheaper than anything else out there. Has anyone had any issues with the cylinders? Or with getting them filled? I have read a few different threads were people have said that Brewers Choice and probably Ozaquatec would fill them up in Brisbane. Any feedback or anything else I should know before parting with $250 that would have been spent elsewhere in the brewery...


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## treefiddy (26/5/13)

Pretty sure KK have a map of where you can get them filled/swap.

I have the 2.6 kg version. It holds gas and is compliant to the relevant standards, as it should be.
No further observations other than it is grey. Perhaps too grey...


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## DU99 (26/5/13)

http://www.kegking.com.au/stores.html refill
could try http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australian-Standard-Carbon-Dioxide-CO2-Gas-Bottle-Cylinder-9-1Litres-6kg-FULL-/121116513168?pt=AU_Barware&hash=item1c331b5390  they have smaller and they are kk bottles


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## beerdrinkingbob (26/5/13)

no mines great mate, can't fault it!


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## Maheel (26/5/13)

ring Ozaquatec and ask them if they have any 2nd hand cyl's around

a while back i was there and they had a few they had reconditioned

they are brewer friendly and easy to get along with


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## lukiferj (29/5/13)

Cheers guys. I have decided on one of these KK cylinders. Seem to be the decent enough quality with all the required markings for a refill just about anywhere.


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