# AHB Articles: Using Glad wrap instead of a lid



## manticle

This is the discussion topic for article: Using Glad wrap instead of a lid


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## matr

I still use a lid but my reason is that it keeps 3 & 5 year old hands out of my beer.

What is it with kids and putting holes in plastic wrap?


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## manticle

Fourstar said:


> that or your fingers are drunk!


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## aussiechucka

Thanks for this Manticle. Since I saw in a thread a while ago that you used Glad wrap I have started to use it as I can fit my fermenter into my fridge easier. So a big thanks and yeah it is less to clean up after fermenting.
Cheers
Chucka


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## juzz1981

I love the cling wrap!

And although totally unrelated, just sampled my first AG brew, JSGA clone.... oh man! No turning back now!


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## MeLoveBeer

If I could work out a way to use an immersion heater (safely) with glad wrap, I'd do away with all my lids. Any one got some cool McGyver way of getting the best of both worlds? (preferably with some tin foil, chewing gum and a pocket knife)


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## Phoney

Personally I use a lid but pop a PET lid over the bung hole. This still lets me see the krausen, pop dry hop pellets through the hole and I dont have to fiddle around with glad wrap.


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## Acasta

MeLoveBeer said:


> If I could work out a way to use an immersion heater (safely) with glad wrap, I'd do away with all my lids. Any one got some cool McGyver way of getting the best of both worlds? (preferably with some tin foil, chewing gum and a pocket knife)


Hey i got one.
Get the pocket knife and lay it across the top of the opening, wind some of the coil around it and bind with gum, then apply glad wrap. And throw the tin foil away!
haha, you could easily sub the pocket knife with a stiff piece of wood or metal, and use string for the gum to bind it properly. Then just glad wrap over it. Just make sure the shaft doesn't poke too far over the sides so u can cover it with glad wrap.

Manticle, how many sheets/covers do you use? I normally go with 2, but then i can't see in. I might just try one next time i guess.


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## pk.sax

Errrr.... Undrilled lid be OK or am I asking for trouble making the fermenter too overtight?


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## ekul

I use glad wrap and thro my hydrometer into the brew! Means that i don't have to open it up untill all the beer has been safely put into bottles


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## manticle

practicalfool said:


> am I asking for trouble making the fermenter too overtight?



I would say yes. Too much pressure and nowhere to go.


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## pk.sax

Dang! Just when I though I prolly had the perfect thing by accident!

I'm going to try and build a pressure cooker type of thing, only let out CO2 when it's built up to some pressure. I hate my airlocks. I frekkin loathe them. They are supposed to bubble [email protected])@&&17. Sigh. Thnx mate. Folks at home will appreciate me not creating a barrel bomb in the laundry.


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## earle

practicalfool said:


> Dang! Just when I though I prolly had the perfect thing by accident!
> 
> I'm going to try and build a pressure cooker type of thing, only let out CO2 when it's built up to some pressure. I hate my airlocks. I frekkin loathe them. They are supposed to bubble [email protected])@&&17. Sigh. Thnx mate. Folks at home will appreciate me not creating a barrel bomb in the laundry.



Why make it more complicated when cling wrap is so simple? I'm not sure but keeping pressure in may affect your fermentation, a bit like the opposite of open fermentation.


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## Hatchy

I've used a lid loosely screwed on before. Far from ideal but I drank the beer.


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## manticle

loosely is probably fine. I have fermented in cubes with the lid dialed back a half turn or so. The gas just needs somewhere to go but if you overtighten something that has a rubber o-rinfg to help seal, you're asking for trouble.


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## chappo1970

I just ferment in 20lt and 25lt cubes/jerrys and back off the lid a half turn so the CO2 has somewhere to escape. Don't bother with gladwrap and all that type of crap anymore. Basically went this way because I can fit more square pegs into the square hole (tha fridges) therefore maximise the fermentation fridges space.

Although I did used to Gladwrap back in the day with barrel fermenters and tossed all the lids in the brewery spare parts bin.

Just the way I do things. Horse and course fella's :icon_cheers: 

Chap Chap


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## dcx3

Hatchy said:


> I've used a lid loosely screwed on before. Far from ideal but I drank the beer.


I do this with my yeast in a powerade bottle i just tighten it when i shake then release works great!


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## manticle

Chappo said:


> I just ferment in 20lt and 25lt cubes/jerrys and back off the lid a half turn so the CO2 has somewhere to escape. Don't bother with gladwrap and all that type of crap anymore. Basically went this way because I can fit more square pegs into the square hole (tha fridges) therefore maximise the fermentation fridges space.
> 
> Although I did used to Gladwrap back in the day with barrel fermenters and tossed all the lids in the brewery spare parts bin.
> 
> Just the way I do things. Horse and course fella's :icon_cheers:
> 
> Chap Chap



That works well too. Many times I ferment in my no chill cube by just aerating and adding yeast once chilled. Obviously I am fermenting with all the cold break in there - to be honest I haven't personally noticed a difference but if you're going to give it a go, be aware that you are accepting my word for it.

Does make things simple - brew, no chill, next day add active yeast starter.

I would never toss the lids though - even just to make cleaning and sanitising easy they are worth keeping around (shake, shake and all that).


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## sipourit

For me, I still use a clear cling-wrap lid because it is much easier to see the inside even though there is condensation building up.


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## Der_Kommisar

I use glad wrap on mine. I prick a hole in it using a needle. I stick a sticker onto the wrap and poke the hole through the sticker. That way the hole stays small and doesn't tear.


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## manticle

What's the hole for?


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## argon

manticle said:


> What's the hole for?



to prevent the fermenter catching on fire


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## wakkatoo

Der_Kommisar said:


> I use glad wrap on mine. I prick a hole in it using a needle. I stick a sticker onto the wrap and poke the hole through the sticker. That way the hole stays small and doesn't tear.



He, he, ignore Argon. He's a nice person, just having some fun.

Manticles qn is a valid one though, and because your post count indicates newbie status I'll give an answer obvious to many who have been here a while - you don't need the hole as you may as well go open top fermentation if you do (and invite all sorts of nasties in). I've used the cling wrap method for the past 18 or so months with never a hole being pricked (or is it pruck?? :blink: ). I can personally guarantee the gas finds its own way out and there has never been a self-imploding fermenter, or as Argon suggested, an out of control fermenter fire. Don't worry about a hole in the glad wrap, its just inviting the inevitable infection that will happen at some stage.


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## argon

yeah i was being a little... facetious.  good info above. I always use cling wrap these days and believe it's the only way to go.


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## raven19

manticle said:


> What's the hole for?



:icon_offtopic: Kitten deterrent. 

I am a total convert btw. Less to wash too!


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## Tilt

A query for those fellas using the old round fermentors with glad wrap - how do you aerate your wort prior to pitching?
One of the reasons I keep using the lid/seal/airlock on mine is that having the lid securely on allows me to hold a sanitised thumb over the airlock hole and shake the whole shebang for a few minutes to aerate the wort.
Glad wrap wouldn't keep any of the sloshing wort in - so does that mean you fellas use a "splosh the wort with a spoon"or a fishtank pump and sintered stone or even the O2 bottle arrangement?


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## michael_aussie

what is the hole for??

It's a serious question.

If there is a good case in favour of pricking your glad wrapper then I'd like to hear it.

I can tell you .. from what I've seen....

If you don't prick:

1) your glad wrap won't "burst".
2) your fermenter won't "burst"
3) the CO2 WILL escape - it's hard enough to ensure sealed systems don't leak.. let alone thinking something as primitive as glad wrap and a big rubber band won't leak.
4) any stray dirt, or water sitting on top of your gladwrap won't get in.

If you do prick.

1) any stray dirt, or water sitting on top of your gladwrap has every chance of getting in.

Has anyone ever not pricked had a problem .. and if so what was it... would pricking have stopped this problem.

Everyone is entitled to brew how they want to .... but I think it's important if there are differing opinions on how to do something that both sides should justify why their way is better.

Particularly when others read what you do and will copy.


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## Bribie G

I'm not a fan of pricks, I just use it unpricked. As for aeration, I no chill and use the splash and glug method. Then the next morning as the lag phase is ending (more often than not a krausen appearing already) I use the magic tool to thrash the wort, then cover with fresh gladwrap and the rubber band, and tuck the FV off to bed for the duration. 





ps I'm promoting the use of the term FV which seems to be the default on UK forums and a good shorthand.


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## WarmBeer

tilt said:


> A query for those fellas using the old round fermentors with glad wrap - how do you aerate your wort prior to pitching?
> One of the reasons I keep using the lid/seal/airlock on mine is that having the lid securely on allows me to hold a sanitised thumb over the airlock hole and shake the whole shebang for a few minutes to aerate the wort.
> Glad wrap wouldn't keep any of the sloshing wort in - so does that mean you fellas use a "splosh the wort with a spoon"or a fishtank pump and sintered stone or even the O2 bottle arrangement?


I pour my cube of room-temperature wort through one of these:





Aerates the wort nicely, I usually have foam wanting to come out the top of the FV from splashing and aeration. Added benefit is it catches any leftover cube hop residue before it gets into the FV (thanks Bribie for saving me all those keystrokes).


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## Tilt

Bribie and Warmbeer - thanks for the tips and showing us your magic tools! :blink: 

Being a "kettle chillin" brewer I figure I'll open the tap from a height and splash that baby into the FV.
And then for good measure I could remove the glad wrap and give it a good paddle beating after 12hrs or so lagtime. 

Actually on that one - I could stand corrected but I thought I heard Jamil Z on his show discuss that the important time for oxygenated wort was the first part of fermentation - if thats the case Bribie, why do you re aerate 12 hours in - is a wee while after pitching the optimum time to provide O2 and boost yeast health?

This forum is awesome for simple solutions to as yet unresolved problems.
BTW I like the FV acronym too - it places all the containers we choose to use under the same umbrella and does it so succinctly.


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## Wolfy

tilt said:


> A query for those fellas using the old round fermentors with glad wrap - how do you aerate your wort prior to pitching?
> ...
> Glad wrap wouldn't keep any of the sloshing wort in


Yeah it does.
Layer or two of cling-wrap, then put the lid loosely on top, shake the crap through it, replace cling wrap if it got ripped by the lid.


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## kelbygreen

many may flame me but I use a silicon hose stretched over the tap and spray the water in of coarse this wouldnt work with full boil. I know you can get aquatic air pumps cheap and with a stone and a sanitary filter its prob cheap if you consider how much use you get


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## bignath

tilt said:


> Actually on that one - I could stand corrected but I thought I heard Jamil Z on his show discuss that the important time for oxygenated wort was the first part of fermentation - if thats the case Bribie, why do you re aerate 12 hours in - is a wee while after pitching the optimum time to provide O2 and boost yeast health?




Tilt,

the "end of lagtime" (when the yeast is gathering numbers of little yeasty soldiers to eat all your sugar) would be the start of the "first part of fermentation".

Fermentation doesn't start once you pitch the yeast, it starts when it starts fermenting. So 12 hours after pitching seems (to me) like a pretty good time to aerate. It's not something that i currently do, but i may just try it.

What i do is (probably like many on here) no chill out of kettle into a cube. Come back when cube has cooled to pitching temp.

Then pour a litre or two into fermenter. 
Add yeast to this. 
Then finish pouring the rest of the wort on top of yeast from as high up as i can without:
A: busting my ass
B: spilling any of my precious beery stuff
C: dropping my cube in front of other brewing friends, therefore looking like a complete fucktard.

Now, off to find me a magical tool.

Nath


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## michael_aussie

Big Nath said:


> What i do is (probably like many on here) no chill out of kettle into a cube. Come back when cube has cooled to pitching temp.
> 
> Then pour a litre or two into fermenter.
> Add yeast to this.
> Then finish pouring the rest of the wort on top of yeast from as high up as i can without:
> A: busting my ass
> B: spilling any of my precious beery stuff
> C: dropping my cube in front of other brewing friends, therefore looking like a complete fucktard.
> ......


lol .. nice image there.

I poured my first cubes yesterday .... and found they're bastards when they're full.
The gulg gulg of the air escaping as you pour initially made little bits slurt out at each glug.
So I ended up with a little bit splashed over the side of my fermenter and on the floor.

Is this "normal" and how do you avoid minimise this spillage?


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## bignath

michael_aussie said:


> lol .. nice image there.
> 
> I poured my first cubes yesterday .... and found they're bastards when they're full.
> The gulg gulg of the air escaping as you pour initially made little bits slurt out at each glug.
> So I ended up with a little bit splashed over the side of my fermenter and on the floor.
> 
> Is this "normal" and how do you avoid minimise this spillage?




Yeah, that's happened heaps of times to me. I just start slowly and once i get a good pour going, gradually increase the pour rate without going so hard that the fluid blocks air coming in to displace it, which is what causes the inconsistent pouring glug glug thing. I get a nice balance between going hard enough to get some air in it, and slow enough that it pours well....


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## bum

Someone (forget who, sorry) once reported good results by pouring with the hole at the top (i.e. from above the handle). I can see why it might work better but all I can see happening if I were to try it is the first few litres of wort running into the fermenter via the hair on my forearm. 

Perhaps we need a pouring from a cube article?


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## bignath

bum said:


> Someone (forget who, sorry) once reported good results by pouring with the hole at the top (i.e. from above the handle). I can see why it might work better but all I can see happening if I were to try it is the first few litres of wort running into the fermenter via the hair on my forearm.
> 
> Perhaps we need a pouring from a cube article?




OK lads, here's my secret.......

If my "cube" happens to be a jerry can, i pour it with the jerry can on it's side, as i am sure that it allows the air in quicker or easier, therefore making the pour better and faster.

Don't tell anyone though.... h34r:


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## michael_aussie

bum said:


> Someone (forget who, sorry) once reported good results by pouring with the hole at the top (i.e. from above the handle). I can see why it might work better but all I can see happening if I were to try it is the first few litres of wort running into the fermenter via the hair on my forearm.
> 
> Perhaps we need a pouring from a cube article?


hmmmm
i DID pour from the hole on top.
Should I have removed the bung and used the little hole down the bottom? I'm sure the bottom bung holes were still blanked?


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## bignath

michael_aussie said:


> Should I have removed the bung and used the little hole down the bottom? I'm sure the bottom bung holes were still blanked?




Haaaaaahaaaaaaaaa that's pretty funny.. :lol:


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## bum

michael_aussie said:


> hmmmm
> i DID pour from the hole on top.
> Should I have removed the bung and used the little hole down the bottom? I'm sure the bottom bung holes were still blanked?


No, pour from above but with the hole at 12 o'clock not at 6 o'clock - if that helps.

I wouldn't be drilling out a bunghole (outside of mardi gras) if it was already sealed up - less places for nasties to hide.


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## felten

You can pour with the hole at the top, like Bum said, or on the side at the 3 or 6 o'clock position. If you start out slowly so that air can enter the hole as you're pouring, you should be able to do it with minimum spillage.


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## michael_aussie

felten said:


> You can pour with the hole at the top, like Bum said, or on the side at the 3 or 6 o'clock position. If you start out slowly so that air can enter the hole as you're pouring, you should be able to do it with minimum spillage.


I considered all clock directions.
6 looked like the only one that wouldn't result in the wort running down the side of the cube and making a hell of a mess.

With the first one, once I'd started, and I could see the little gulg spills, I didn't know whether to stop or keep pouring .. and didn't want to risk the potentially unstable flow you get when you stop pouring anything, so I soldiered on through until the level have dropped to the point that I had air at the spout. 

I got my son to pick up the fermenter for the second and third that I poured and they weren't too bad. I was able to slow the pouring rate down quickly and get a more stable flow.


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## Maheel

next time i am at the green shed i am buying one of those spouts that fit cubes.... save me cleaing sticky mess of the floor


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## WarmBeer

Maheel said:


> next time i am at the green shed i am buying one of those spouts that fit cubes.... save me cleaing sticky mess of the floor


The spouts don't really help, sorry. The problem is the ability to get air into the cube to offset the vacuum effect of the liquid leaving the cube. Due to the plasticity of the cube body moving in and out, you get the "glugging" effect, and corresponding wort mess all over the place.

I'm going to try something next time I brew. My cube does have it's bunghole drilled out (boom-tish) so I'll lay it on it's side, bung at the top, and take out the bung, replacing with a sanitised, closed, tap. Then I can tip the cube the right way up, loosen the cube cap, and open the tap over the fermenter. This should produce a nice stream of wort, aerating it at the same time.


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## Nick JD

20L willow cubes are best poured slowly, on their side, so there is always a gap above the liquid leaving the spout - then they don't glug. 

For aeration, direct this slow flow onto the side of the fermenter so it spreads out into a wide, thin current.


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## peaky

I never got the hang of pouring from the cube without making a mess, there must be a knack to it but I never found it. Mind you the pour was good once the first 4 litres were all over my arms and my shoes and the garage floor  

I was using the square 20L cubes, maybe the jerry can type cubes pour easier. Anyway, I now have a few empty cubes floating around the garage if anyone wants them, they won't get used here again :huh:


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## Bribie G

The Willow shape do pour more easily. With the Craftbrewer Shape, the trick is to put the cube on a solid wooden chair next to the FV, Then lift using the handle, reach under from behind with the other hand and grasp the rear "lobe" of the underside - wearing rubber kitchen gloves will prevent slippage. 





Then raise, tip and pour - but try to get the cube "upside down" and shooting down into the FV as quickly as possible as each glug sends a stream of wort shooting out. 
I often get some splashes but nothing too bad, but it's important to have a perfect grasp as they can get slippery, especially if it's a cold cube with condensation, hence the rubber gloves.


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## manticle

I don't think I've ever had a problem emptying a cube into a fermenter.

Unless leaving the tap open constitues a problem?


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## peaky

Next time I have a shot at emptying a cube maybe I'll use a drum pump....


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## Hatchy

I just tip it upside down resting on the fermenter. Any splashing stays in the fermenter. I'll try to get a photo tonight because that makes no sense to me & I know what I'm talking about.


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## JestersDarts

Hatchy said:


> I just tip it upside down resting on the fermenter. Any splashing stays in the fermenter. I'll try to get a photo tonight because that makes no sense to me & I know what I'm talking about.



THIS


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## jamiefbacon

Hatchy said:


> I just tip it upside down resting on the fermenter. Any splashing stays in the fermenter. I'll try to get a photo tonight because that makes no sense to me & I know what I'm talking about.



+1 to that technique ya just gotta tip it really quickly to the upside down Postion so that when it starts gluging the spout is already inside ur fv opening and no wort can splash out works a treat just gotta be quick at the start

Jamie


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## Hogan

BribieG said:


> I'm not a fan of pricks, I just use it unpricked. As for aeration, I no chill and use the splash and glug method. Then the next morning as the lag phase is ending (more often than not a krausen appearing already) I use the magic tool to thrash the wort, then cover with fresh gladwrap and the rubber band, and tuck the FV off to bed for the duration.






tilt said:


> Bribie and Warmbeer - thanks for the tips and showing us your magic tools! :blink:
> 
> Being a "kettle chillin" brewer I figure I'll open the tap from a height and splash that baby into the FV.
> And then for good measure I could remove the glad wrap and give it a good paddle beating after 12hrs or so lagtime.
> 
> *Actually on that one - I could stand corrected but I thought I heard Jamil Z on his show discuss that the important time for oxygenated wort was the first part of fermentation - if thats the case Bribie, why do you re aerate 12 hours in - is a wee while after pitching the optimum time to provide O2 and boost yeast health?
> *




I'm sure BribieG is not advocating leaving the first aeration until 12 hours after pitching. What he is saying is that he aerates at the time of pitch and then 12 hours later he aerates again. The first period of lag time is imperative for the growth of yeast through oxygenation. An additional round of aeration before the second phase kicks in will accelerate yeast growth.

Cheers, Hoges.


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## Tilt

Hogan said:


> I'm sure BribieG is not advocating leaving the first aeration until 12 hours after pitching. What he is saying is that he aerates at the time of pitch and then 12 hours later he aerates again. The first period of lag time is imperative for the growth of yeast through oxygenation. An additional round of aeration before the second phase kicks in will accelerate yeast growth.
> 
> Cheers, Hoges.




Thanks Hoges - Bribies approach makes perfect sense now that I've had a chance to read the White/Zainashef Yeast book. 
They advocate aeration as the yeast is pitched to ensure healthy yeast preparation for fermentation (lag phase). Apparently this O2 will be used up quite rapidly. Then, still during lag phase but before fermentaion starts, its possible to carry out another aeration to ensure optimal yeast health - and they recommend this for high gravity brews or situations where there's been a slight yeast underpitch.
All good - learning a lot recently and hoping to taste the difference very soon!!
Cheers


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## T_Kiwi

JestersDarts said:


> THIS



+1, also works with putting oil in the engine and petrol in the dirtbikes and lawnmowers etc etc etc


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## GuyQLD

Oh look, necro alert. 

In all seriousness though, I have a really good quality icebox (the sort that keeps ice around for 4 days in summer) and previously I had been putting my fermenter in with a water bath and a towel over the top and adjusting with ice/hotwater etc.

Mainly this is because with an airlock, it doesn't fit.

But sans airlock, turn that puppy on it's side and it's a very snug fit; with just enough room for a freezer block or two and in current QLD weather it's going along nice and steady at 18 degrees.

So just how long can you get away with the glad wrap lid? 

I normally leave in the fermenting vessel for around 2 weeks then bottle, will it be safe for that long? 

I do have to open it pretty soon to dry hop as well so a little concerned about that.

Since I'm using US05 - should I just wait till day 3-4 when the really active part is over, drop some hops in and wack on the standard airlock to finish or will another layer of glad be ok? (This would mean losing some of my temp control but given current weather in QLD I'm not worried, worst case it'll get down to 14/15 degress over night and I haven't had a problem with that so far)

And apologies to GregL, I know he'll shed a tear in frustration h34r:


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## manticle

Once active fermentation has ceased and FG is reached (and you're sure it's reached), I have found it a good idea to look at sealing the vessel. I actually ferment in a cube with the lid backed off a few turns so at this point, I simply tighten the lid. I have left barrel fermenters with glad lids on for a few weeks conditioning before with no issues but I have also seen some grow white film and I'd rather be safe than sorry.. You don't need to worry about fitting the airlock though - just cover the bung hole with something clean and sanitary.

I also dry hop during the cold conditioning phase.


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## Wimmig

Hatchy said:


> I just tip it upside down resting on the fermenter. Any splashing stays in the fermenter. I'll try to get a photo tonight because that makes no sense to me & I know what I'm talking about.



Bugger moving it to a fermentor, an extra step not needed. Pitch the yeast, and swap the lid out.


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## Truman42

manticle said:


> Once active fermentation has ceased and FG is reached (and you're sure it's reached), I have found it a good idea to look at sealing the vessel. I actually ferment in a cube with the lid backed off a few turns so at this point, I simply tighten the lid. I have left barrel fermenters with glad lids on for a few weeks conditioning before with no issues but I have also seen some grow white film and I'd rather be safe than sorry.. You don't need to worry about fitting the airlock though - just cover the bung hole with something clean and sanitary.
> 
> I also dry hop during the cold conditioning phase.



I didnt know that and Ive just put my glad wrap covered fermenter into the fridge to CC for 5-7 days. Im going to go and swap the glad wrap for the lid. Thanks Manticle.


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## manticle

In the cold will reduce the likelihood of anything bad happening but I just prefer the lid at that point. From memory, the few that developed skins (brews turned out OK regardless - tried a cider at a friend's place at least 6 months after bottling recently that tasted beautiful with no hint of sourness or oxidation, clear as a bell) were outside the fridge.

Precautions are easy enough though and I'd rather not see weird, white skin on my brews.


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## bum

Why would something grow on gladwrap but not on a lid?


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## popmedium

Most people seem to be OK with GladWrap but I haven't been that lucky. And from reading this it seems clear why.

I got two infections in a row using Glad Wrap and I've stopped using it since. Both at the same point in fermentation - after dry hoping, about 3 weeks in to the ferment, 7 days before bottling. I spoke to a few people at the time and they seemed to think the lack of a protective Co2 layer would have played a big part in it. I chucked the dry hop bag out and switched to cubes so that I can fit 2 in my ferment fridge.

Hope this helps others!

Joel


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## manticle

bum said:


> Why would something grow on gladwrap but not on a lid?




Doesn't grow on the lid but on the beer.

Can't give you a proper 'why' explanation though and as I said - I no longer really use barrel fermenters for fermenting. Still cube is HDPE so shouldn't be more prone to oxidation or oxygen related skin infection any more than HDPE lid should.

However Glad is not HDPE. Not sure exactly how semi-permeable each is to gases but the explanation may exist in that. I think Glad is fine to use in place of a lid in general (hence I wrote the article) but I think at least cautiously observing once the brew has ceased active fermentation is wise based almost entirely on my, admittedly limited experience with a couple of issues.


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## GuyQLD

So in summary, glad for the first couple of days, dry hop and wack on a lid (I'll have to buy a lid with no hole I think) I figure once active is done a quick loosen to let any pressure build up would be fine, if it even came to that?


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## manticle

Glad for the entirety of active ferment (more than 2 days for me) and even a bit after is definitely fine. It's just if you have it sitting around to condition for a bit.


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## bum

manticle said:


> Doesn't grow on the lid but on the beer.


Ah, yeah, I read that wrong. My apologies.

Worth pointing out (before the panic that has begun sets in proper) this is manticle's experience in manticle's environment. May not happen to you - if you believe it may then I'd ask you why use gladwrap at all? 

Spoken as a full-time gladwrapper who has not observed the phenomena under discussion.


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## twizt1d

reading back a bit...
to all the people glugging shit everywhere when pouring a cube into the fermenter..

turn the cube backwards, have the handle BELOW the opening in the cube and it will pour smoothly 
ive lost count of how many 'cubes' of oil ive poured straight into big diesel engines without a funnel that way


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## manticle

bum said:


> this is manticle's experience in manticle's environment. May not happen to you



Agree completely.

Glad is good and I'm glad I sometimes use Glad. It will not an infection necessitate.


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## ///

In April this year I had an amazing experience. Well, it should be experiences, inclusive of the Craft Brew Conference in San Diego, SD itself, some fantastic company, Green Flash Brewery, Stone and Firestone Walker Brewery.

... and Anchor Brewing. There was no glad wrap, no lid, no dome top at Anchor. Pure, simple open fermenters as big as a tennis court each. All that is provided is a well maintained and cleaned room, proper yeast numbers and lots of love. The yeast peaks where like whipped egg white out of my kitchenaid. Strong, stiff and glorious.

How many years has that and many other breweries been doing this? Since time began. If the pro's can do it, usually it is easier at home ... a lid vs plastic film ... a stupid discussion ...

Scotty


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## bum

They make really shit beer though.

True story.


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## ///

bum said:


> They make really shit beer though.
> 
> True story.



No. Perhaps in 1961 ... 2012 ... no.


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## bum

I had their porter last year. I think most of us would admit porter is about as forgiving as styles get.

Their porter tastes like a bottle of abused yeast. Horrible stuff.

EDIT:
That's entirely beside the point, though. This is an article instructing people how to put gladwrap on a fermenter. Who is reading this thread looking for answers? Noobs. You're, by inference - in an _article_, tell noobs not to even worry about a lid of any description. This is sub-Darren trolling on your part. Many, many times worse if said noob has any idea who you are. You should be contributing better than this.


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## ///

bum said:


> I had their porter last year. I think most of us would admit porter is about as forgiving as styles get.
> 
> Their porter tastes like a bottle of abused yeast. Horrible stuff.
> 
> EDIT:
> That's entirely beside the point, though. This is an article instructing people how to put gladwrap on a fermenter. Who is reading this thread looking for answers? Noobs. You're, by inference - in an _article_, tell noobs not to even worry about a lid of any description. This is sub-Darren trolling on your part. Many, many times worse if said noob has any idea who you are. You should be contributing better than this.



Well this is a burst from the blocks. Nice try sunshine, is this a gray market import that has plagued the Aussie market for years? As the 5th beer on my tasting flight, at the brewery bar, if anyone can sledge these guys at 11 million litres a year for poor yeast handling i take your degree in Microbiology sees you suitably equipped to judge so? 

Yes, if you have a clean space and good yeast handling then a lid is not needed at all. If you are a 'noob', a lid or glad wrap is the same thing. They are both a lid. Does not matter what is used, could be a towel. Cleanliness, good yeast and care is what makes beer.

A number of years ago I met a psychologist who commented folks who fixate on characters often want to be them. Darren? 

Sorry forgot to say, Scotty, Head Brewer from Rocks Brewing Co. , I am such a fraud!


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## Yob

/// said:


> They are both a lid. Does not matter what is used, could be a towel.* Cleanliness, good yeast and care is what makes beer.*



you know.. this, and I have no science behind me but only personal experience here, is with out a doubt some of the best advice going.. this mentality with my brewing has got me thus far without infection.. or oxidisation or any of any other sort of ion due to what lid I use  

.. that I know of ...

well said.


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## manticle

/// said:


> . If the pro's can do it, usually it is easier at home ... a lid vs plastic film ... a stupid discussion ...



The point is not really lid VS plastic film (not from my perspective anyway). It'about the timing. Do open fermentation breweries leave the beer in open fermentation situations for a long time after active fermentation is completed/FG reached or transfer it somewhere else?


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## ///

manticle said:


> The point is not really lid VS plastic film (not from my perspective anyway). It'about the timing. Do open fermentation breweries leave the beer in open fermentation situations for a long time after active fermentation is completed/FG reached or transfer it somewhere else?



Nope, they allow the ferment to happen, go thru D rest and its outta there. Just like good HB practice should be, no need leaving it there for a week or 2 after, at ambeint temps most folks should have thier beer on chill within 5 days.


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## raven19

Another point to bear in mind, is the taller fermentation vessels (i.e. more head pressure on yeast trub) in commercial applications compared to our short homebrew fermentors. You would not want to leave that higher net pressure in commercial fermentor on the yeast trub for an extended period - leading to damaging yeast cells releasing unwanted products into the beer (based on my limited readings on this to date).

DrSmurto posted some great info recently on gas/pressure and oxygen levels inside kegs and other vessels. Highly relevant to this thread imo. Can't recall which thread it was in though!

Fwiw, I used to gladwrap but don't anymore - I had more than one apparently healthy beer at end of primary ferment go bad quickly during cold conditioning with glad wrap left on in lieu of replacing with lid. Not saying this is the result of glad wrap at all, but the solid lid gives me extra piece of mind.


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## fergi

bum said:


> Ah, yeah, I read that wrong. My apologies.
> 
> Worth pointing out (before the panic that has begun sets in proper) this is manticle's experience in manticle's environment. May not happen to you - if you believe it may then I'd ask you why use gladwrap at all?
> 
> Spoken as a full-time gladwrapper who has not observed the phenomena under discussion.




obviously you have gone through a proper sanitation and cleaning program .

might be something in that.  

i have been gladwrapping my last 8 batches and leave my fermentation for 14 days, no problems here .

fergi


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## Nick JD

I recently dodged a gladwrap bullet waiting for a Belgian Dubbel to get a freakin move on and hit FG. It was in my big arse fermenter and had climbed up the walls and tried to get out, so there was a LOT of gladwrap (not like the little bit on the jerry hole). Anyway, as I was rinsing the fermenter after kegging it I noticed a couple of salty/fluffy white rings about the size of a 5c way up high in the krausen ring, by the rim of the fermenter where the krausen had got right up to (WY3787), and they had a slight vinegar whiff.

So I panicked and quickly tried the stuff in the keg and there's no aceto ... but I reckon I was close. There was totally O2 in the headspace but that was probably all the delicious tasting (checking the SG again, Honey!) out the tap which I think a lot of people forget is sucking in air no matter what airlock method is used. Too much "tasting" at or near FG will pull in air and bugs.


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## Nicko_Cairns

manticle said:


> That works well too. Many times I ferment in my no chill cube by just aerating and adding yeast once chilled. Obviously I am fermenting with all the cold break in there - to be honest I haven't personally noticed a difference but if you're going to give it a go, be aware that you are accepting my word for it.
> 
> Does make things simple - brew, no chill, next day add active yeast starter.
> 
> I would never toss the lids though - even just to make cleaning and sanitising easy they are worth keeping around (shake, shake and all that).


Hey Manticle,

Fermenting in cubes can any of the krausen get out the lid? What do you use to clean your cubes after? Do you store cubes with anything inside them when not in use? I.e. Sodium precarbonate solution? Thanks mate, great tips.


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## manticle

Krausen some times leaks. Easy enough to clean as it happens. See the article 'fermenting directly in the no chill cube' for cleaning regime.


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## Pogierob

practicalfool said:


> Errrr.... Undrilled lid be OK or am I asking for trouble making the fermenter too overtight?


Take the rubber o ring out and id say jt would work


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## fatone

tonesbrew said:


> reading back a bit...
> to all the people glugging shit everywhere when pouring a cube into the fermenter..
> 
> turn the cube backwards, have the handle BELOW the opening in the cube and it will pour smoothly
> ive lost count of how many 'cubes' of oil ive poured straight into big diesel engines without a funnel that way


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