# Kit Explanation



## gravity121 (27/1/17)

Hi, I am new to all this and need a quick bit of info from people who know what they're talking about.

I'm about to buy an IPA kit, probably coopers. Do the standard kits require that you add hops to create an IPA or is there already hops in the extract? So can I just use the kit without adding anything but fermentables? I understand that adding hops makes things better, but I'm trying to understand what makes that kit an IPA if I have to go and add my own hops?

If kits are just malt extract, what's the difference between them all?

Appreciate any info that can help me with this.

Thanks a lot


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## LAGERFRENZY (27/1/17)

Hi mate. Unless the can says that it is Malt Extract then it is a pre-hopped kit. Most kits have bittering hops added to them but due to the nature of their manufacture they lack late hop freshness. You can do this buy boiling some light dry malt extract in a pot of water and adding late addition hops at say 10 minutes and at flameout. IPA's benefit from being dry hopped when the ferment starts slowing down. There are many recipes for kits on this site and at Coopers. Let the search function on this site be your friend.


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## Jack of all biers (27/1/17)

No standard kits don't require hops as the malt extract has been 'hopped' by the manufacturer.

Yes you can use the kit with only adding fermentables and as this is your first brew it would be my recommendation to keep it simple. 

Please go here and read some of the FAQ about kit & kilo


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## gravity121 (28/1/17)

Exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you


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## Grott (28/1/17)

I'd do the Coopers IPA kit as per instructions other than temperature of the fermentation (keep it at 18 degrees, 20 max) and ferment for 14 days. This will then give you a base to work on, you may stay with the kit style or look to had extra hops on your next brew but a "base level" IMO is a good start for new brewers.

Remember cleanliness, sanitation and fermentation temp control are your best friends to great brews.

Cheers


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## decr (29/1/17)

^^ what grott said. I'd use light dry malt instead of whatever they tell you on the tin though. When I was starting out and cheaped out by using table sugar / dex, that was probably the worst mistake so far. After switching to dried malt my brews improved by an order of magnitude.

Happy brewing!


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## Donz (22/3/17)

Another new fella, I'm trying to get my head around brewing and I'm so happy to find information here for people new to brewing.
Thanks to Jack of all biers for the link to, pint of larger's thread on FAQ :beerbang:
I'm on batch 4 and 5 right now (put down before joining here) and wish I found this site before starting my first brew.
Average temps for all brews are around 26 C but for the first Larger, it is not horrible.
4 weeks in now and I found that the first brew from the starter kit actually tastes like beer and have got the brewing bug big time.
Only thing I am worried about with both fermenters going now is the smell, both brews smell bad like bad eggs mixed with some other funky smell.
I'm going to keep them going and will test grav on day 6 so I can taste the sample to see if it tastes ok.
I'll be trying to reduce brewing temps ASAP, and all other advice will help out a lot.


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## Bribie G (22/3/17)

Lagers (lager has one r  ) usually generate hydrogen sulphide (as does a night on the curried eggs) so don't worry, just give it time to clear up and don't bottle too soon. A little tad of sulphur is actually part of the aroma of a lot of european lagers.


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## Donz (22/3/17)

see eye lern noo sutf evry day, like spellin and stuf.
Cheers Bribie G, I'll let you know if it turns out drinkable


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## Jack of all biers (22/3/17)

What Grott said above is appropriate to reiterate Donz. Cleanliness, good sanitation practices and then fermentation temperature control are important in that order, but the level of importance is not that far apart. Now, depending on access to spare fridges/freezers or coin you have, there are easy ways and cheap ways to keep the temp down. Qld is probably more difficult than SA to use wet towels to keep temp down, but the dry season is not that far so there is one method for you. Place fermenter in a bucket/bath/sink filled with water and ice packs/soft drink bottles with frozen water in them. wrap towels around the entire fermenter including from above. The cold water will help keep the parts submerged at a stable (and hopefully cool) temp longer and the towels will wick up the water and cool the rest of the fermenter. A pedestal fan blowing air against the towels assists greatly in evaporation of the towels and therefore cooling. This was how I did it before I acquired a free fridge and bought an STC1000 temp controller from E-bay for $13. A $5 box from Jaycar, an extension cord and a little U-tube viewing and soldering know how and you get yourself a damn good temperature controller for said fridge and you will never use all the wifes good towels again. h34r: 

What, she loves beer too 

EDIT - I can't spell right either


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## Bribie G (23/3/17)

Morayfield is away from the sea and can be a hot hole in the Summer but can be chilly from May on.
When I lived backing on to Sheepstation Creek we even had frosts.
So if Donz has a good stable space like a brick garage he's coming into a sweet period.
However from Sept on, urgent fridge will be needed.


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## Grott (23/3/17)

If you sit the fermenter in water make sure you sanitise the tap outside and up the spout when you remove it from the water. Alternatively, prior to placing in water, sanitise the tap put a plastic bag over it and secure with a rubber band.
I use a foam box system and I know Bribie did the same which works well with frozen soft drink bottles of water.
You can search these methods on this site.
Cheers


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## Donz (23/3/17)

Thanks guys, I'll do the water tray trick with a towel until I find a fridge, I'm brewing in my man cave (converted single garage) and bought aircon this year so when I'm home the temps are around 24 C or 26 in the brew, so keeping the temp lower with a tray and towels should not be too hard, and coming into the cooler season I'll have some time to find a fridge and thermostat for next year's heat wave  .
I have 2 empty kegs at the moment, and the 2 batches I'm doing now have been on the warm side of 24- 28 C, would it be worth just bottling these 2 and keep the kegs for a brew that I have a lower and more stable temp?
PS: tasting a brew that has been sitting for 3 weeks is really clear and tastes fine to me, better than a can of TUN and some other strange beers I've bought from the bottle shop.


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## Grott (23/3/17)

IMO I think kegging would be the better option for those beers brewed at the higher temp.


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## Donz (23/3/17)

would you keg them and put them straight in the fridge, or let the kegs stay outside the fridge for a few weeks?
I have the room for them , I just don't know to put them in or leave them out.


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## Jack of all biers (23/3/17)

If you have them gassed up, then put them in the fridge. They'll still get better at cooler temps over time. If they need natural carbonation and conditioning then leave them out, but under 20C is best.


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## Grott (23/3/17)

If you have the room in the fridge put them in, connect gas at serving pressure and leave ( set and forget) for a week or two.


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## Donz (24/3/17)

:unsure: Last week I put a beer straight from fermenter into keg,( I know spelling is wrong) Tasted today and it is super cloudy and tastes of creamed corn 
will this get better or should I just dump it?
EDIT: DETAILS..
brewed Morgans draught with 50-50 dex and malt, OG 40, FG 10.5 ( over 3 days ), took 8 days to brew, came out cloudy, 5 extra bottles are slowly settling but mostly clear with carb drops, average temp 26C.
The grav reading on day 8 tasted good.
kegged on 18th and put straight in the fridge with 20PSI, every day I let out pressure and added 20 PSI back in.
Dropped PSI to 6 for serving, cleaned lines and taps today and thew the first 3 pints, then tasted .. and YUCK 
Cleaned the keg with pink stain remover for 1 hr, then rinsed 4 times then cleaned it with cold cleaner and rinsed 3 times then sanitised with no rinse for 10 min and kegged.


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## Jack of all biers (24/3/17)

Normally Creamed Corn flavour is to do with DMS (Dimethyl Sulfide) which occurs in the boil. It can also occur by bacterial infection (Wild yeast, Obesumbacteria Proteus or Zymomonas) during the lag phase when the pH of the wort is 4.4 or higher. This can particularly occur if the lag takes 24hr or longer (lag phase is the period when no activity is visible).

Given you used a reputable brand of kit I would doubt they had a bad batch with DMS issues (it could happen, just unlikely). It is far more likely you had an infection. This sort of infection can be mitigated by good sanitation and good healthy pitching rates of yeast.

What was your lag time and pitch rate?

EDIT - Lag time can be increased by temp shocking yeast also, so keep the temp of your yeast (or starter) similar to the temp of the wort when pitching.

2nd EDIT - just read your post again and saw that your sample tasted good. Your cleaning regime on the keg seems good, what about on the gear used to transfer the beer (taps, tube etc). It is possible you got an infection during transfer, but if that is the case then it is unlikely to be Obesumbacteria Proteus as it won't like anything under pH 4.4 (ie finished beer should be under this)

3rd EDIT - and to finally answer your question. No there is not much you can do to recover from this taste. It may be better to chuck it.


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## Donz (25/3/17)

:/ so many tech terms I'm lost, the transfer was from new bought auto syp from shop and rinsed then sanitized, took about 20 min, 
 was going to keg 2 more batches this weekend but I might bottle them so I can see the brew clear up.
I'll leave the one keg in the fridge for now and disconnect the line to clean it out, so looks like another few weeks till I get the kegerator up and running 
My next 2 brews are going to get a cleaning beyond anything I've ever read ( not with any other products, just for longer ), and I'll switch back to the first 2 brews I done to see if I can get these kegs tasting like, or better than the bottled brews.


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## Donz (25/3/17)

The upside of going in head first... I got 5 brews out in less than 2 months ( 2 23Ltr batch at a time) .. and joined a team of gentlemen that knows how to brew.
Downside, I May have to throw out 60Ltrs of beer .. well not beer if it is crap.
the up up side of everything!!.. I love doing it and if I have to spend time to do something properly, I'll have a proper time learning how to do it right.
If all else fails,.. I'll go back to step one and do it with that bit more know how. 
:chug:


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## RdeVjun (25/3/17)

Hold off chucking it Donz, given that its cloudy and tastes pretty crap it could be just the ferment debris settling into the bottom of the keg and that's what is making its way into your glass, that's fairly normal. It may take a week or two to settle out all the particulates, after which you can toss the first few pints then enjoy much some better beer.
Often I am in a hurry to dispense freshly- kegged beer after carbonation, I use a floating pickup (known as a cask widge, available from sponsors) for a few of my cornies, while I also have a few kegs with shortened dip tubes, only an inch or so trimmed off to allow the debris to settle past the pickup and stay in the bottom of the keg.
It could also be infection or ferment issues, but given that a sample tasted OK previously I'd be giving it the benefit of the doubt and some more time for settling, after that you can also be a bit more certain about what the issue may have been and use that learning to improve quality in the future.
HTH! :icon_cheers:


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## Jack of all biers (25/3/17)

If it's tasting like creamed corn, then it is DMS. If it's more of a general vegetable taste or aroma, then it's an infection. If the fermenter is still tasting good (I assume it's been bottled by now), but the keg isn't then the DMS production happened in the keg due to infection. It could have come from various sources such as scratches and nooks in plastic or crevasses (like in the auto siphon or valves in the keg). If you have enough kegs and want to see if it will get better, then do that. If it is DMS, then it is not going to settle out with the yeast and trub.

I'm just going off what Donz has stated, but it may be better for Donz to use Ctrl F (search function) on the below doc to search for key words he'd describe the taste as being. Creamed corn only comes up with one thing.

View attachment Complete_Beer_Fault_Guide.pdf


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## Donz (26/3/17)

Quick update, I pulled a sample from keg today, I did not taste it but the bad smell has reduced quite a lot.
I'll pull half a glass next weekend and give an update on the taste.


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## Donz (26/3/17)

I also pulled a Grav reading from one of my newer brews where the smell from the airlock was horrible, I tasted the reading and it was Awesome!, hot and flat, but the potential for a good beer is there, just goes to show that the fermenting smells can get you worried for no reason


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## Donz (3/4/17)

I ended up tipping that first keg, but done another one before I threw the first one.
I tasted the second keg and it started tasting like the first one 
After doing a lot more reading on this site, I had the thought that the sterilizer solution I'm using (sodium percarbonate) is oxygen based and after pouring into keg I put the keg in 4 deg C fridge.
I know beer hates oxygen, but hear, yeast can get rid of it, so I pulled the keg out and warmed it up for two days to try and reactivate any remaining yeast, then put it back in the fridge.
Not sure how, but it worked a treat!!
The bad smell and taste are completely gone and the beer tastes great!
Could the "no rinse" steriliser, be producing oxygen if kegged straight after cleaning?, and does the left over yeast help remove oxygen?
Wish I had done this for my first keg before tipping it out as it tasted exactly the same but got worse after 2 weeks.


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## RdeVjun (3/4/17)

Err, sodium percarbonate isn't no- rinse. Its use is generally as a cleaning agent, although it has some value as a sanitiser, but should always be rinsed. AFAIK, at least.


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## Jack of all biers (3/4/17)

+1 to above with an explanation as to why it is not 'no rinse'. Sodium percarbonate is essentially Sodium carbonate mixed with Hydrogen peroxide. The Hydrogen peroxide hits organic matter and releases an oxygen molecule, which is how it 'bleaches'/'cleans' the vessel you are using it on (in this case the keg). The left overs from this process is the oxidised organic matter (it doesn't just disappear), water (H2O from the break down of the Hydrogen peroxide) and Sodium carbonate (feels a bit slimy or soapy). Taste a little bit next time you have cleaned a keg (if your not willing I won't blame you). That is what you are leaving in your keg when you don't rinse it. WIth the right dose of Sodium percarbonate the resultant Hydrogen peroxide can sanitize your vessel, but then you are also increasing the amount of Sodium carbonate you are adding to the beer if you don't rinse it out. 

If you want the sanitizing effect of Hydrogen peroxide then best use that as a no rinse sanitizer on its own. I'd recommend a commercial 'no rinse' sanitizer though and there are plenty to choose from (let the AHB search function assist you to discover which would be preferable to you).


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## Kingy (4/4/17)

As above 
Sodium percarbonate is a great cleaner/soaker. 
Must always be rinsed out.
Then you use a no rinse sanitizer like starsan. This doesn't need rinsing. 

Remember you can't sanitise a dirty surface. 
Sodium percto clean, than rinse out. 
Starsan to sanitize then drain but don't rinse.


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## Donz (4/4/17)

Wonder why it sais no rinse on the bottle ?


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## Donz (4/4/17)

copper tun no rinse steriliser..
sais to clean everything with the cold water cleaner then rinse, then use this "no rinse" ,
ingedients: Sodium percarbonate.
I'm going to the brew shop this weekend, I'll pick something else up, they do not have starsan.
My mangrove jacks no rinse steriliser is also Sodium percarbonate 
but the detergent to use before it is Sodium carbonate.
why do they advertise it like this if you then need a sanitizer afterwards


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## Jack of all biers (4/4/17)

Mangrove Jacks "No Rinse Sterilser"




Well the label is misleading the customer by saying that it is a steriliser. There is a difference between sanitation and sterilisation, one being the reduction of living organisisms to an acceptable level the other being the complete destruction of all life, which is very difficult to achieve with sodium percarbonate I would think.

You probably can get away with not rinsing your Sodium Perc solution, but as i said before, have a taste next time of a little bit and decide yourself if you want that in your beer. You will know.


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## Donz (5/4/17)

Went to LHBS and they didn't have starsan so I got some Morgans sanitize.
Ingredients: Hydrogen peroxide (2.95%), silver ions, stabiliser and distilled water.
30ml to one ltr.
Will this do the job after rinsing both previous washes?


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## Jack of all biers (5/4/17)

Yes, that is a proper no rinse sanitiser. The silver assists the hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to kill any bacteria or spores. The H2O2 breaks down leaving oxygen and water, so no effects on beer/wort that is later poured into the vessel. The stabilser is likely phosphoric acid (main ingredient in Starsan) which keeps the pH down, stopping the H2O2 from breaking down prior to you needing it.


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