# Saison



## lukec (7/12/11)

Can someone please point me in the direction of a awesome saison recipe.I need to broaden my horizons


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## petesbrew (7/12/11)

lukec said:


> Can someone please point me in the direction of a awesome saison recipe.I need to broaden my horizons


Tony's Bullshead Summer Saison seems to be the one everyone loves.
I'm still waiting to bottle mine.


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## .DJ. (7/12/11)

shamelessly stolen...



Docs Saison Beer
Saison

Type: All Grain Date: 
Batch Size: 40.00 L Brewer: 
Boil Size: 48.17 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 40 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.66 kg Weyermann Pilsner (3.9 EBC) Grain 75.06 %
1.33 kg Weyermann Munich I (15.8 EBC) Grain 15.02 %
0.88 kg JWM Wheat Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 9.92 %
50.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 16.4 IBU
40.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (1 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1.50 gm Seeds of Paradise (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
15.00 gm Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
20.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison


Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.09 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 16.4 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l


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## lukec (7/12/11)

.DJ. said:


> shamelessly stolen...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thanks dj


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## Mikedub (7/12/11)

has anyone here recultured from a bottle of Dupont? thinking I might give it a crack


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## chunckious (7/12/11)

What about Doc's Black Saison.....didn't notice too much coriander or orange in that.


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## lespaul (26/12/11)

has anyone had any experience with the 3726 farmhouse at temps around 30. Couldn't find any information on it but it seems most people ferment with this yeast around mid 20's


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## Nick JD (26/12/11)

Mikedub said:


> has anyone here recultured from a bottle of Dupont? thinking I might give it a crack



For $10, Wyeast 3724 (Dupont's) is easier. Most of the Belgians I've tried to reculture have had a rough life between here and Brussels.


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## Tony (26/12/11)

Lespaul...... its a special release yeast that is only made available every now and then.

So its not one that people get a lot of time to play with..... hence why i got 2 of them 

I just went back through the Wyeast archive and it hasnt been releasd since mid 2008.

webside states:

Wyeast 3726 PC 
Farmhouse Ale
This strain produces complex esters balanced with earthy/spicy notes. Slightly tart and dry with a peppery finish. A perfect strain for farmhouse ales and saisons.


Attenuation 74-79% 
Alc. Tolerance 12%
Flocculation variable
Temperature Range 70-95F (21-35C)

30 deg....... hook in!

It will be great!


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## Renzo (27/12/11)

All I can add is if you can't get it below 1.010 add some dextrose to the fermenter to dry it right out. As Jamil says.... "they gotta be bone dry".

Also don't start the ferment out too warm otherwise you risk hot alcohol taste.


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## Tony (27/12/11)

Good points Renzo..... but i dont believe dextrose is really needed. Mash cool.... around 63 and it will rerment really dry. This does not in any way gove a "thin" beer as some think. Just less residual sweetness which makes the beer tatrt and thirst quenching.

I have just done a double batch of my Summer Saison. Split it into 2 fermenters and fermented one with 3711 french Saison and the other with 3724 Belgian Saison. 

Both brews started at about 1.048 

3711 was done in aboout 10 days at 25 deg...... FG: 1.003
3724 has just finnished after about 3 weeks...... FG: 1.003

I have the 3711 one chilled ready to filter tonight, and its dry and slightly tart but the lowish bitterness gives ballance and i had a go at Simpson Golden naked Oats...... and samples from the fermenter are actually creamy smooth....... Its gunna be a rippa!

cheers


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## mugley (27/12/11)

3726 seems to be a fast worker. First attempt went from 1.051 to 1.004 in four days at 26 deg. Second try went from 1.048 to 1.004 in about the same timeframe at 29 deg.


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## Renzo (27/12/11)

Tony said:


> Good points Renzo..... but i dont believe dextrose is really needed. Mash cool.... around 63 and it will rerment really dry. This does not in any way gove a "thin" beer as some think. Just less residual sweetness which makes the beer tatrt and thirst quenching.
> 
> I have just done a double batch of my Summer Saison. Split it into 2 fermenters and fermented one with 3711 french Saison and the other with 3724 Belgian Saison.
> 
> ...



I did one with 3724 at 1.065 last summer and couldn't get it to go below 1.010. The dextrose in small amounts after 20 days helped it along and I got it down to 1.006. Mashed at 64c. Finished nice and dry with a nice pear/pineapple thing going on. That 3724 can be a finneky bugger though.



Cheers


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## Tony (27/12/11)

yes it can thats for sure.

I have had more luck with lower alc beers under 1.050 with 3724, It doesnt seem to run out of steam. Over 1.060 it seems to struggle to get the gravity right down.

With a 1.038 beer, your only looking at a couple weeks ferment time and its quaffable. Cause one Saison is never enough.

I still say it should be the national drink!

Ferment it hot and drink it in the heat 

cheers


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## Renzo (27/12/11)

Tony said:


> yes it can thats for sure.
> 
> I have had more luck with lower alc beers under 1.050 with 3724, It doesnt seem to run out of steam. Over 1.060 it seems to struggle to get the gravity right down.
> 
> ...







Good idea and I agree with all that and would like to add that along with Saison being the national drink I wish one of the Aussie Macros would put out a proper German lager one of these days (i.e. bready/doughy - not tasteless sulfur bombs). I'm gonna start doing my saisons under 1.050 from now on as well. They're actually better with less alcohol to a degree and that yeast flavour is insane.


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## Nick JD (27/12/11)

Renzo said:


> I wish one of the Aussie Macros would put out a proper German lager one of these days



Too expensive to produce, probably. Needs way too much hops, and a euro malt. They'd **** it up by paring it back until it's VB - skimping on the bittering hops with POR, throwing in sugar, or worse Australian malts that taste musty. 

And run a lager yeast at 9C? That'd have the CUB execs in the elevator to the roof ready to jump - the shareholders would freak if the beer had to be stored for weeks at freezing temps. 

But really - we can buy Euro lagers (and Boh Pils even better) for only slightly more than megaswill. Last week Urquell was $15.95 a six pack at Dans. What was XXXX Bitter? I didn't look, but probably about that.


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## Hinji (28/12/11)

Is it worth underpitching a starter of the 3711 or just go by the MrMalty calculations as usual??


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## Renzo (29/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Too expensive to produce, probably. Needs way too much hops, and a euro malt. They'd **** it up by paring it back until it's VB - skimping on the bittering hops with POR, throwing in sugar, or worse Australian malts that taste musty.
> 
> And run a lager yeast at 9C? That'd have the CUB execs in the elevator to the roof ready to jump - the shareholders would freak if the beer had to be stored for weeks at freezing temps.
> 
> But really - we can buy Euro lagers (and Boh Pils even better) for only slightly more than megaswill. Last week Urquell was $15.95 a six pack at Dans. What was XXXX Bitter? I didn't look, but probably about that.




hahaha. Yeah sounds about right. Even that Heninger tastes better than Oz megaswill and it's bloody cheap too.

Where's that pic of yours from JD? I'm over in WA and just got back from some nice little shape waves up at Gero.


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## JDW81 (3/1/12)

.DJ. said:


> shamelessly stolen...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How would a saison stand up to no chill? 

Would it be best to leave the late hops, seeds and peel out of the cube and go with a mini boil just before pitching?

:beer: 

JD


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## kyleg (3/1/12)

Renzo said:


> All I can add is if you can't get it below 1.010 add some dextrose to the fermenter to dry it right out. As Jamil says.... "they gotta be bone dry".
> 
> Also don't start the ferment out too warm otherwise you risk hot alcohol taste.



Can someone please explain this concept to me? How does adding dextrose help reduce the FG? Cheers

Edit: just found this thread http://www.ahb.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=51717

explains it pretty well. would adding dextrose after primary fermentation has finished still work or is it more for when you are designing the recipe and grain bill?


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## Nicko_Cairns (11/8/12)

Renzo said:


> Good idea and I agree with all that and would like to add that along with Saison being the national drink I wish one of the Aussie Macros would put out a proper German lager one of these days (i.e. bready/doughy - not tasteless sulfur bombs). I'm gonna start doing my saisons under 1.050 from now on as well. They're actually better with less alcohol to a degree and that yeast flavour is insane.



i probably don't know enough about beer yet but Zierholz do some German Ales etc, not exactly lagers but still very nice. noticed they're doing a saison at the moment too, haven't had an average beer from zierholz yet (but moved from Canberra a few years back).

http://www.zierholz.com.au/ZierholzPremiumBrewery/index.php


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