# Substitute For Crystal In Pales?



## mje1980 (28/3/05)

What other specialty malts can be used in pale ales to give them a malty profile???, i dont mind using crystal, but find it hard to get the balance right, ie too much, not enough. I really love munich malt, and am thimking of putting a small amount in my next ale (IPA) on monday. ANy other malts that can be used instead of crystal???


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## Barry (28/3/05)

Good Day
You could try 100 t0 200 gms of the following;

* melanoidan, usually used to give a decoction flavour to malty lager styles,

* amber malt to give a toasty depth to the flavour,

* brown malt to add a "biscuit" aspect to the flavour,

* carapils etc to add to body and malt sweetness.

You can use combinations of the above to get the "maltiness" that you are seeking. Just remember that often less is more. I am sure that others will have additional/different ideas.


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## sosman (28/3/05)

mje1980 said:


> What other specialty malts can be used in pale ales to give them a malty profile???, i dont mind using crystal, but find it hard to get the balance right, ie too much, not enough. I really love munich malt, and am thimking of putting a small amount in my next ale (IPA) on monday. ANy other malts that can be used instead of crystal???
> [post="51158"][/post]​



I use a kg of munich in my APA. Depending on your point of view it sounds a lot but I initially used more like 200g and it just didn't have the maltiness I was after.

Recipe: http://brewiki.org/brewsta/recipes/?sys=si...APA_5.beer=view


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## SJW (28/3/05)

I love a little Vienna in just about antythng, I love the stuff.


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## jayse (28/3/05)

Hi brewers,
You could try different types of crystal malt, try a ounce or two of cararoma as a portion of the crystal.

Personally over the last year or so of brewers get togethers and trying APAs' from a shit load of brewers i think alot of people are making them too malty.

I tend to go the other way, when using JWM trad ale malt as the base you should have enough malt flavour right there with out having to use to much of anything else. Now if you really do want to make yours maltier than i would start with munich malts.
Thats if its APA your talking about, but if your talking pale ale in a gerneral term which could mean nearly any ale that is anything less than dark brown to black you could go with a tiny smidge of amber malt and go in the direction of something more like a montieths original, or go with a bit of darker crystal and maybe a pinch of choc malt for a hightail ale type pale ale. Even though hightail isn't a great deal malty i think the balance is great, i do believe they may in fact use pilsner malt in that brew but iam not totally sure.

Anyway i would go with starting to use some munich malt and go from there.
I have been going the other way around lately with APA and toning down the beer with a good dose of wheat malt up to a whole 20%.


Jayse


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## jaytee (29/3/05)

Amber and caramalt for me

The caramalt seems to give a smoothness that crystal doesn't have, but without that cloying sweetness that some people can't stand.

Amber for a bit of flavour & colour, balances the sweetness of the caramalt


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## warrenlw63 (29/3/05)

If you're adventurous a bit of deliberate kettle caramelisation works OK too. Get a litre or so of your first runnings in a separate pot and boil the guts out of it to reduce it, taking care not to scorch.

Tried this in a couple of Scotch and Brown Ales. Gives nice toffee overtones. Sure it would work in a Pale Ale too.

Warren -


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## jayse (29/3/05)

jaytee said:


> The caramalt seems to give a smoothness that crystal doesn't have, but without that cloying sweetness that some people can't stand.
> 
> Amber for a bit of flavour & colour, balances the sweetness of the caramalt
> [post="51341"][/post]​



I found the JWMcaramalt was the otherway around for me, i found it much more cloyingly sweet than either TF or weyermann of the same colour, i did only use it once and never again because of this so that really doesn't really enable me a correct comment. Just saying what i found when i used it. For my money the european and english crystal malts do a better job for what iam after.
The amber malt is very potent stuff if its american pale your making i wouldn't bother but for some english styles 100g is lovely. Use to much and thats all you will taste.



warrenlw63 said:


> If you're adventurous a bit of deliberate kettle caramelisation works OK too. Warren -
> [post="51365"][/post]​



i did that in a scottish and was impressed, with the beer that is, iam still not so sure how much of the carmalizing was responsible for making it great but i'll be doing it again for sure. The beer was one of my best ever scoring 87% even though the beer was flat after a rather agricultural pour into the bottle from the very low carbed keg.

Jayse


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## jaytee (29/3/05)

I think the caramalt was Bairds, suspect the amber is too.


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## Dunkel_Boy (29/3/05)

Barry said:


> Good Day
> You could try 100 t0 200 gms of the following;
> 
> * melanoidan, usually used to give a decoction flavour to malty lager styles,
> ...



I think this guy has it spot on.
Joe White crystal doesn't do it for me, the colour is uninspiring and the flavour is not something I like... unsatisfying sweetness, not well balanced, pretty unimpressive.
Weyermann have a number of interesting malts, but I believe anything dark (past about 175EBC) should be used very sparingly.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (29/3/05)

mje1980, try doing a pale ale with 100% Marris Otter malt. It's the ducks guts for making English ales IMHO!

C&B
TDA


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