# Difference Between James Squire Amber Ale & Golden Ale?



## benny_bjc (2/3/08)

hi,

What is the difference between James Squire Amber Ale and Golden Ale in relation to taste, aroma, feel etc....

I really enjoy the JS Amber Ale and the lovely honey aftertaste!


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## joecast (2/3/08)

without getting into specifics on ingredients, the golden ale is lighter in color, less sweet, and the hops show through much more. amber ale has a much more malty taste, and when served on tap is generally way too cold (though the golden ale probably suffers the same fate).
personally, i could stand about one amber ale now (though i remember it being much nicer)
the golden ale on the other hand :chug: :chug:


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## geoffi (2/3/08)

Can't help myself. Must get specific on ingredients. I've tried to clone both these and come pretty close IMHO.

The Amber gets its colour and body from dark crystal. Aroma hops on the Amber is Willamette, and it's fairly low-key.

The Golden Ale uses Amarillo, with a big fruity American-style hop aroma. The GA has about 20% wheat malt, which keeps the colour light.

I think the GA is probably fermented with a more neutral, American-style ale yeast, the Amber with something that has a bit more character (but not much more.)


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## goatherder (2/3/08)

I'd suspect that both beers are now brewed with the Tooheys house lager yeast. They probably started their lives as ales back when they were brewed at Malt Shovel. Dig might be able to confirm or deny this if he's reading.


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## joecast (2/3/08)

Geoffi said:


> Can't help myself. Must get specific on ingredients.



dont apologize for that. its what we're all here for  



goatherder said:


> I'd suspect that both beers are now brewed with the Tooheys house lager yeast. They probably started their lives as ales back when they were brewed at Malt Shovel. Dig might be able to confirm or deny this if he's reading.



as my 18 month old daughter would say, "Oh no!" you think? havent had either in a while really so cant comment on that. has anyone else noticed much difference in the GA from when it was first released?


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## peas_and_corn (2/3/08)

I remember it tasting better about five years ago, but my taste buds have changed since then too


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## dig (2/3/08)

goatherder said:


> I'd suspect that both beers are now brewed with the Tooheys house lager yeast. They probably started their lives as ales back when they were brewed at Malt Shovel. Dig might be able to confirm or deny this if he's reading.


Neither are brewed at Tooheys. No MSB brands at Tooheys anymore as they too busy out there with their eurolagers. Both brewed with Tooheys yeast library strain number one, Y1, the original Tooheys ale strain that's also used for Tooheys Old and other MSB brands. Quite a good flavoured yeast but poorly attenuative and therefore both need a good charge of adjunct to get the final gravity down.


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## ausdb (5/3/08)

dig said:


> Neither are brewed at Tooheys. No MSB brands at Tooheys anymore as they too busy out there with their eurolagers. Both brewed with Tooheys yeast library strain number one, Y1, the original Tooheys ale strain that's also used for Tooheys Old and other MSB brands. Quite a good flavoured yeast but poorly attenuative and therefore both need a good charge of adjunct to get the final gravity down.


I and some of the other west coast brewers attended some promotions that malt shovel held in Perth pubs the other week where Chuck and his 2IC (or so, can't remember his name but he was a South Aussie originally from SA Brewing) were shouting free MSB beers to the masses at the pubs that night and those who were on the MS email list and had shown up for a few ales.
Chuck was lamenting the problems of having his beers brewed under contract and the problems with getting the results he wanted. Toohey's weren't interested as the batch sizes weren't viable when compared to the amount of eurolager they brewed and he was having problems getting the hop aroma's right / existent with his beers when brewed in a brewery setup for brewing mega swill type beers. Unfortunately he didn't mention the current yeast strain bit was reasonably free with info on what went into his beers.


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## dig (5/3/08)

ausdb said:


> Chuck and his 2IC (or so, can't remember his name but he was a South Aussie originally from SA Brewing)


It was probably Tony Jones.

Yeah, most of the big volume MSB stuff is now brewed at SAB.

When Chuck was lamenting the difficulty he was having getting his beers right, I trust the brew crew raised their voices and suggested he use decent malt, ditch the enzymes and adjuncts, select the appropriate yeast strain, brew at sale gravity, bypass the pasteuriser and add more hops.


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## beers (5/3/08)

I recently bought up consistancy issues that I'd found in the MSB range when responding to a feedback email I recieved from the MSB mailout list.
I got this response from Chuck. 

"We appreciate and share your concerns for consistency in quality across 
all of our James Squire brews. One of our brewers has written a 
comprehensive response in the brewers blog on how we try to maintain a 
consistency in quality and on some of the contributors to possible 
slight deviations.
I started my brewing at the Coors Brewery in Colorado in 1971 and have 
scientific qualifications in chemical engineering. Brewing is a 
scientific Art. With all of the variables presented to the brewer, it 
is always a challenge to tightly control that flavour profile of each 
individual brand. In comparison to the winemaker, we are faced with 
"vintage every week" but we must strive by analysing, tasting, blending 
and re-tasting in order to control flavour consistency. My entire 37 
years of brewing experience has been committed to the attainment of 
consistency across my beers.
As a matter of fact, I personally taste most of our beers before they 
are bottled. And this includes many of the ones that we are forced to 
have contract brewed at larger breweries due to our own capacity 
constraints at Camperdown. Our beers all conform to tight quality 
standards at their release from the brewery. However, then they can be 
subjected to various storage conditions (age, temperature, sunlight) by 
the retailer before they are sold and consumed.
I am sorry that you felt "buying a Pilsener was like taking part in a 
lucky dip." We do indeed do everything possible to guarantee flavour 
consistencies across all the beers - no matter where they are brewed and 
bottled. Rare is the complaint received such as yours concerning such 
variability. I also must mention that we continue to receive brewing 
awards for all the beers - even those not all brewed at Camperdown.
My best wishes to you and I would hope that we can continue to supply a 
consistent brew to your liking. I encourage you to try the amber ale 
again. After almost 2.5 million litres just of amber ale over the last 
12 months (our biggest saler), we must be doing something correct with 
the recipe. Our Golden Ale continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

.....

Also we have just packed Pilsener this week and your 6 pack will be 
courier over next week.

Cheers,
Chuck Hahn
Brewmaster"

The 6 pack I received was welcome... but tasted like s*%t - not a patch on the Pils I remember.

Sorry to continue on with the hijack


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## ausdb (5/3/08)

dig said:


> It was probably Tony Jones.
> 
> Yeah, most of the big volume MSB stuff is now brewed at SAB.
> 
> When Chuck was lamenting the difficulty he was having getting his beers right, I trust the brew crew raised their voices and suggested he use decent malt, ditch the enzymes and adjuncts, select the appropriate yeast strain, brew at sale gravity, bypass the pasteuriser and add more hops.


Cool stuff

SAB did get a mention as the current brewhouse of choice for the volume sellers, although he admitted to pastuerising he was rather coy about all the extra "goodies" He was also asking if we had tried the New Norcia Abbey Ale and I questioned what was the point of storing it at New Norcia if it was filtered and pastuerised, it wasn't going to get better wherever it sat and that in my opinion was just marketing. The excuses of storage and stability were offered up but then if the Belgians can do it and send their beers over here and can still be drinkable then one trip over the nullarbor ain't that bad plus they stand the chance of getting better with age.

They are talking of some limited beers coming out in the pint bottles soon, maybe they will be a bit more Micro micro and less Macro pretending to be micro?


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## hewy (16/2/09)

Tried the abbey ale while in new norcia last week.

Was a nice beer but it does tend to reek of marketing to me. 

We did a tour of the monastery and the guide seemed a bit synical about the motives behind jame squire and the abbey ale. Seems the abbey wants the ABV reduced. Originally it was over 8% now they have reduced it to ~7%. I think they want it down even further.

Anyway, as you would expect from JS the beer was very drinkable. It is an abbey ale in the "belgian golden strong" style.

$25 a six pack or $80 a case.

Cheers
Hewy


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## MAUOMBO (16/2/09)

I for one think that the Amber ale has definitely gone down hill

my wife described it as though someone had got the original and added water to it

I have to agree with her

I wonder if focus groups said it had too much flavour!!!

MAUOMBO
P.S. Ive got about 10 or so bottles left from the last purchase, and I wont be in a hurry to buy again


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## Jazzafish (16/2/09)

I remember when I first tasted little creatures pale ale... thought it tasted like grass! As I did with all hoppy beers... too much hops! But over the years my taste has developed, and the same beer tastes mild these days! Not enough hops now!!! 

So maybe your taste changing is the issue? The large scale breweries have plenty of tools to keep the recipes in spec and out of the drain.

No doubt every beer at the scale of commercial brewing will be different, literally a different batch of malt and hops per brew. I mean if you were growing orange trees, how many identical oranges will you find? I personally feel the problem with breweries is that they try to produce the same result with different ingredients and therefore rely on additives, adjuncts and extracts for consistency. I'd like to see more breweries let the seasonal changes shine through, as most home brewers do. A beer per season.

However, it would be hard to sell I guess? Long live home brew!


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## Bribie G (16/2/09)

At our recent session at the James Squire Bar at King Street Wharf, the standout beers on tap were the Pilsener and the IPA. Didn't mind the porter either. The Amber was disappointingly average and the Golden Ale was woeful. Reminded me of drinking some awful Pommy keg beer from the 1970s. However in fairness the tastebuds had been well and truly hammered by the previous great beers.

Off topic: the best beer overall in my Sydney sampling tour was the St Peters Blonde available around the Newtown - Glebe - Camperdown triangle. Bloody lovely.

Completely off topic: My daughter in law's previous boyfriend used to work as a dozer driver at a landfill down Logan way and recalls that they once had to smash up then bury a shedload of XXXX stubbies and cans from the Castlemaine at Milton, at night, with security guards around. Maybe they had forgotten to give it a diacetyl rest or use the polyclar or something :mellow: So the big commercials aren't immune from serious stuff ups either.


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## PostModern (16/2/09)

I think the (bottled) golden and amber are terrible lately. Nothing like when they came out of Camperdown. I don't care what Chuck says about tasting and quality control from 2000km away, the Adelaide brewed Golden Ale is crap.


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## drsmurto (16/2/09)

PostModern said:


> I think the (bottled) golden and amber are terrible lately. Nothing like when they came out of Camperdown. I don't care what Chuck says about tasting and quality control from 2000km away, the *Adelaide brewed Golden Ale is crap*.



there are a few Adelaide brewed golden ales that do taste alright tho B)


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## adraine (16/2/09)

Jazzafish said:


> I remember when I first tasted little creatures pale ale... thought it tasted like grass! As I did with all hoppy beers... too much hops! But over the years my taste has developed, and the same beer tastes mild these days! Not enough hops now!!!
> 
> So maybe your taste changing is the issue? The large scale breweries have plenty of tools to keep the recipes in spec and out of the drain.
> 
> ...




Im with you jazzafish.
Ive only just got back in my home brews after a long break drinkinng commecial brews and now my tastes have changed (for the better i hope :huh: ) and i find mainsteam commecial beers bland and boring, Easy to drink mind you which is what your average punter wants, but they leave nothing notable to consider for your own beers.
Thats my 2cents if may mean nothing but its there.  

Cheers Ad


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## MAUOMBO (16/2/09)

I know my tastebuds have changed, but I think the change in the taste of the amber is much more significant than can be explained by that.

I notice that im not alone from some above posts

interesting.

my next bought beer is the vintage coopers, ive never been disappointed with that!

MAUOMBO


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## jayse (16/2/09)

BribieG said:


> Completely off topic: My daughter in law's previous boyfriend used to work as a dozer driver at a landfill down Logan way and recalls that they once had to smash up then bury a shedload of XXXX stubbies and cans from the Castlemaine at Milton, at night, with security guards around. Maybe they had forgotten to give it a diacetyl rest or use the polyclar or something :mellow: So the big commercials aren't immune from serious stuff ups either.



If it was that type of stuff up it shouldn't really make it to that stage in the first place, more than likely it would have been a packaging line problem, wrong labels, bottles or cans etc. Heard many stories of that happening.




PostModern said:


> I think the (bottled) golden and amber are terrible lately. Nothing like when they came out of Camperdown. I don't care what Chuck says about tasting and quality control from 2000km away, the Adelaide brewed Golden Ale is crap.



They do have a great deal of trouble trying to brew golden ale here and thats putting it politely.


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## hazard (16/2/09)

Did anyone see interview with Chuck in latest BYO magazine? He said that Amber ale is:
- 20% dark crystal
- 10% sugar
- I assume rest is pale malt.

So, if you are not happy with MSB version, it should be plenty easy to brew up yourself. Question is - what yeast would you use? Wyeast American Ale #2? Any other suggstions?

Hazard


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