# Is This My First Infection?



## fasty73 (14/10/10)

As the tittle says. Ingredients were Tooheys Lager (can goop) Coopers Dextrose and a Brigalow finishing hops half tablet the day after putting it down on 25/9/2010? OG was 1034, todays sg is 1006. Smells like any other brew I have put down.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Another pic.


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## dkaos (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Another pic.


Looks very odd. Have a taste mate, that's the best way


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Last pic.


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## haysie (14/10/10)

Lacto Fasty.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

HUH??


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## DUANNE (14/10/10)

that definatly looks like an in infection to me. hows it taste? could be a aceto infection by the look of it. if it taste vinergary or acidic that would be my bet.


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## felten (14/10/10)

Can't say if its your first one, but its definitely a pellicle from some kind of infection. Whether you want to keep it or not is up to you.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Is this my second infection? Recipe is Brigalow New (can of goop) Coopers Brew sugar. Put down 28/09/10 OG 1040 todays SG 1023.


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## marksfish (14/10/10)

ditch it, give up brewing and get off AHB :icon_chickcheers:


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Last pic. Oh and I never taste them out of the fermenter. Is it worth bottling or just tip it out?


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## haysie (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Last pic. Oh and I never taste them out of the fermenter. Is it worth bottling or just tip it out?




Tasting it out of the fermenter will alert you to acidic, sour, wrong tastes.
The last couple of photos wernt compelling, but the first looks rancid. Have a taste, so you know what you dont want your beer to taste like, then tip it, then kick the crap out of the fermenter.

felten.....funny man :lol:


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## felten (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Oh and I never taste them out of the fermenter. Is it worth bottling or just tip it out?


http://www.indra.com/8ball/front.html


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## DUANNE (14/10/10)

second infection? by the look of it YES. whats your sanitation like? to me the brown looks like just yeast but the white haze around the top looks suss. how often do you open the fermenters right up? and you really shouild start tasting beer out of the fermenter if only to get a gauge on what to expect from the beer at any given point during the ferment,that way you would know when something doesnt taste quite right.


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## Bribie G (14/10/10)

lash out sub-forty bucks and get a new fermenter with accessories. That one is binnable.


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## outbreak (14/10/10)

That first pic looks like the surface of the moon when its zoomed in. Moon brew?


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## Lodan (14/10/10)

Give the second one a taste. Draw a sample from the tap and give it a swig

The first brew is definately lawnworthy


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## haysie (14/10/10)

outbreak said:


> That first pic looks like the surface of the moon when its zoomed in. Moon brew?



:lol: Crying on my keyboard :lol: 
:lol:


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## MattC (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Last pic. Oh and I never taste them out of the fermenter. Is it worth bottling or just tip it out?



Why Not can i ask? An important component in brewing is tasting as you go, as mentioned above you get to learn how the beer changes as fermentation progresses. Ive spoke to people who couldnt help themselves and have consumed an entire batch from the fermenter. Get into it, dont be a pussy!

The first is gooone, the second, well I dont know, but one thing is for sure, if you continue to take the lid off to look inside, these wont be your last infections. If you are compelled to have a look, ditch the lid and use cling wrap.

Myguess is you need to seriously reassess your sanitisation methods. There are plenty of good threads on here re sanitation. try a SEARCH!!!!

edit:Sp


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

Fasty,

Any report on the taste?


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## beerbog (14/10/10)

Stop taking the lid off. :beerbang:


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## pk.sax (14/10/10)

Are these the ones you put down since you started sleeping in the fermentation room?

Well, my guess is you came home dead tired, plopped down for a snooze and woke up in the middle of the night to have a lookie but with your dirty work shirt on.. hmnnn...


As an aside, I was reading up a book on lambics, :A Lambic Lesson: The Cult of the Biohazard Lambic *Brewers*" by Jim Liddil.... brewer maketh the brew... literally 
A recipe in there recommends to leave the cooling wort near the kitchen sink so it can pick up enteric bacteria from the surroundings before you pitch the yeast.. hehe... Now, the question is, Is your shirt as good as the kitchen sink!?!?


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## DJR (14/10/10)

Yeah - if you are continually opening the top to have a look you are letting air in with dust and bacteria all wanting to get into the beer...

Clingwrap over the top, then the black rubber ring that is inside the fermenter lid around the screws on top will let you see the top without opening it all the time. You shouldn't have to open it.

Once you've had an infection get rid of the fermenter and start again.

What sanitiser are you using, might be worthwhile getting some Star-San , Iodophor or other non-rinse sanitiser. Sodium Met is junk.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

No report on taste. I only take the lid off to add finnings. The a/c is recent but I don't take my lids off. Maybe I should start trying taste tests. I always clean my fermenters in the laundry sink with hot water out of the tap and a shite load of sanitiser and leave soak for an hour or two. I have put down 22 batches now and these are my first 2 signs of problems.


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## fcmcg (14/10/10)

Just as a side note...
just wondering what size your fermenters are and how much water are you puting in your brew ?
Seems pretty close to the top , for mine...not alot of head space....
another thing i noticed , from your pic is your fermenter lid seems to be sitting on something like a blanket....when i take my lid off a sanitry fermenter , i always , always , always put it on my stainless steel stock pot , ( 9 liter ) which i have sprayed with iodopher , a no rinse sanitiser...but thats jst me....
Cheers
Ferg


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

I only sat the lid down to take the pics, I ONLY ever take the lid off to put in finnings, in which case I hold the lid in the other hand.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

All in favour of tipping it out??


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## BrenosBrews (14/10/10)

That's definitely a pellicle caused by some wild yeast (unlikely you have wild yeast floating about) or some sort of bacteria getting in there.

As others have said, you need to taste a beer as it ferments. I assume your fermentor has a tap of some sort? Really not that hard to draw a sample.

If your trying to brew a clean lager this isn't a good thing. Unintentionally infected homebrews aren't usually a good thing but there is plenty of brewers who purposely add wild yeast (Brettanomyces) & lactic acid producing bacteria (Lactobacillus & Pediococcus) to achieve certain outcomes. So not all is lost as long as your willing to embrace the funk!


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## DJR (14/10/10)

What sanitiser are you using?

2 out of 22 isn't that bad but there must be something you can do to get that number to 0


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

I have learnt a terrible mistake. I am only using brigalow bottle washing powder!! My bad I guees.


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## pk.sax (14/10/10)

Could even be that A/C... something you changed in the environment to introduce bacteria an even a little exposure ended up being too much. Or maybe e grommets around your airlocks are goners now! Repeated hot water treatment to rubber parts can do things to them. Something has stuffed up. Maybe your taps are harbouring bacteria!


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## zephon (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> As the tittle says. Ingredients were Tooheys Lager (can goop) Coopers Dextrose and a Brigalow finishing hops half tablet the day after putting it down on 25/9/2010? OG was 1034, todays sg is 1006. Smells like any other brew I have put down.



Looks like the bucket I use as a drip tray after too long between cleanings and I wouldn't drink that!


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Yes the grommet on the first pics fermenter is very loose, but thats my fault, I drilled the hole too big,but the last batch out of that fermenter turned out ok. Quick answers. I am about 10 minutes from tipping it out.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

marksfish said:


> ditch it, give up brewing and get off AHB :icon_chickcheers:




NICE


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## zephon (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Yes the grommet on the first pics fermenter is very loose, but thats my fault, I drilled the hole too big,but the last batch out of that fermenter turned out ok. Quick answers. I am about 10 minutes from tipping it out.



Have you tasted it yet? It won't hurt you.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

What taste is good and whats bad?


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## mxd (14/10/10)

don't forget to taste it, you should taste it when ever you do a hydrometer sample. You'll get to pick things up.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> What taste is good and whats bad?



If your mouth isn't puckering from the taste and your initial reaction isn't to spit it out then it's most likely not infected yet. Have a smell. Good chance you can tell from the smell. Do both and let us know.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Ok, going to taste it now. Smell is normal.


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## zephon (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> What taste is good and whats bad?



Typically an infection will cause vinegary/sour flavours that you may or may not find offensive depending on your tastes.

It should be fairly obvious if it's bad.

My only advice though if it tastes OK and you are bottling this with the intention of bottle conditioning (adding sugar to the bottles to carbonate the beer) is to use plastic bottles as an infected beer put into glass bottles has a much higher risk of producing a bottle bomb.


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## mxd (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> What taste is good and whats bad?




that's something you'll learn 

If your going to dump it, put a down a couple of bottles (the plastic variety so there is no glass bottle bombs), take a note of taste then in 3 weeks time, try a bottle and see what that tastes like, but taste all the way through (and move to kegs  )/


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Hmmmmmm, taste is good, I could almost drink it straight from the fermenter!!!! Just cool and drink.


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## zephon (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Hmmmmmm, taste is good, I could almost drink it straight from the fermenter!!!! Just cool and drink.



Sounds good to me! Bottle it up... plastic though just in case.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

NO sour or vinegar taste at all. Now I am confused. Don't forget this is my first batch with Brigalow finishing hops tablet added. Oh and I don't like shite beer!!! I made a batch of Coopers Pale ale and didn't like it at all, it didn't have this moon like look about it either.


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## mxd (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Hmmmmmm, taste is good, I could almost drink it straight from the fermenter!!!! Just cool and drink.



don't bottle the 1.023 that's far too high. if that don't move then ??


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Yeah the 1023 has been fermenting for 16 days. Not sure if I should repitch or chuck it. The top doesn't look overly infected but a little unusual. I tend to leave fermenting for 3 weeks now anyway. OG was 1040 and 1038 on 29/09/10.


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## zephon (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> NO sour or vinegar taste at all. Now I am confused. Don't forget this is my first batch with Brigalow finishing hops tablet added. Oh and I don't like shite beer!!! I made a batch of Coopers Pale ale and didn't like it at all, it didn't have this moon like look about it either.



Just to clarify this is the beer in your first picture right (the one with the white film and bubbles)? The second beer didn't look that bad to me.

As far as flavour goes the infection may not have taken hold enough to alter the taste yet, if it were me I'd keg it and put it on ice and hope for the best. As you're bottling then I'd say just do it (plastic! can't say that enough!) and see how it goes. Worst case some bad flavour develops in the bottles and you have to chuck it then, better than wasting a potentially good beer now.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

simma said:


> Just to clarify this is the beer in your first picture right (the one with the white film and bubbles)? The second beer didn't look that bad to me.
> 
> As far as flavour goes the infection may not have taken hold enough to alter the taste yet, if it were me I'd keg it and put it on ice and hope for the best. As you're bottling then I'd say just do it (plastic! can't say that enough!) and see how it goes. Worst case some bad flavour develops in the bottles and you have to chuck it then, better than wasting a potentially good beer now.


OK, thanks. I only have glass bottles. BUT I can put the in styrofoam boxes to contain bottle bombs but that being said, the earlist I can bottle is tomorrow night. Thanks heaps to the good guys that are helping me out.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (14/10/10)

DJR said:


> Once you've had an infection get rid of the fermenter and start again.




I say get rid of the tap, NOT the fermenter. Get one of those snap-tap jobbies you can get from the lhbs/bunnings, they pull down and are easily cleanable. Sanitise with home brand bleach (Regular, not scented - $1.09 for 2 litres from woolies), this is what i used when i was in a similair situation as yours (1st few brews infected) and used for the rest of my brews until i started using starsan (unless i have made a cider, ginger-beer, etc previously and i don't want the flavour effecting my next brew, then i will use bleach). If ur real worried about future infections, maybe even go to the extents of pre-boiling your water and refrigerating it before you brew.

All the best with future brews.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Thanks WALLACE, will do in future. But do I tip this batch or bottle it until the last 2 or 3 litres are left in the fermenter so I don't get any of the white film in the bottles?


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## zephon (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> OK, thanks. I only have glass bottles. BUT I can put the in styrofoam boxes to contain bottle bombs but that being said, the earlist I can bottle is tomorrow night. Thanks heaps to the good guys that are helping me out.



No worries.

You may be fine in glass bottles but it is a risk. The Styrofoam box is a good idea. In the past I have also wrapped bottles that I thought may be potentially bad in glad wrap as a bit of extra insurance. It's up to you really on how far you want to go with it but don't underestimate the power of a glass bottle exploding it can be pretty powerful. I've only had one myself but it threw shards of glass the entire length of the house and very narrowly missed hitting my g/f and my dogs.

If you do bottle it, maybe open a bottle every week or so to see how it's going. If any of the test bottles spit beer everywhere you'll know something is up and can sort it out before it becomes a problem.


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## jakub76 (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Smells like any other brew I have put down.


That is the most worrying part! Your brews are infected, your sanitation is completely fucked, you are a brew-tard! Slow the **** down and read something about how to do this properly. Brewing 22 batches the same way doesn't make you an expert - you're not going to learn shit-all if you're too busy repeating all of your mistakes.

Rant over...

Some brewers develop a taste for sour beers. As you are a nube and your base was a supermarket goo can I would suggest it's never going to taste any better than shitty shit water. Now that your plastic fermenters are infected throw them away or continue to use them for brewing sour beers only. Glass you can clean and sanitize - well, most people can anyway. You're awesome new a/c is pushing your brett infection all over your brewery, sanitize the crap out of all of your remaining equipment. Read how to do it properly! And if you're still sleeping in the dog house you might need to invest in some yoghurt for your own good self.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Sounds like a plan simma. Any other idea's people?? Chuck it or bottle it? Still confused.


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## jakub76 (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Still confused.


Like that's going to change!


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

practicalfool said:


> Could even be that A/C... something you changed in the environment to introduce bacteria an even a little exposure ended up being too much. Or maybe e grommets around your airlocks are goners now! Repeated hot water treatment to rubber parts can do things to them. Something has stuffed up. Maybe your taps are harbouring bacteria!



Great point!

A change in environment and all of a sudden a change with the fermenters within that environment.... Hmm...

Second hand AirCon?


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

Also, taste it... it will be the deciding factor!


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> That is the most worrying part! Your brews are infected, your sanitation is completely fucked, you are a brew-tard! Slow the **** down and read something about how to do this properly. Brewing 22 batches the same way doesn't make you an expert - you're not going to learn shit-all if you're too busy repeating all of your mistakes.
> 
> Rant over...
> 
> Some brewers develop a taste for sour beers. As you are a nube and your base was a supermarket goo can I would suggest it's never going to taste any better than shitty shit water. Now that your plastic fermenters are infected throw them away or continue to use them for brewing sour beers only. Glass you can clean and sanitize - well, most people can anyway. You're awesome new a/c is pushing your brett infection all over your brewery, sanitize the crap out of all of your remaining equipment. Read how to do it properly! And if you're still sleeping in the dog house you might need to invest in some yoghurt for your own good self.


Thanks mate. This is the FIRST brew that has this on top. I have NEVER claimed that I am anexpert. If I was then I wouldn't be asking questions. I haven't brewed any batches the same way. I have always tried differnet ingredients. Maybe my sanitising needs attention with my fermenters, I agree. I have made some really nice beer and one or two that I didn't like but it was the ingredients that made them different. I am only now just starting to repeat the same brews that I like and not doing the ones I don't. I don't think it tastes like shitty water. I prefer my HB to the commercial beer already, so I think I know what my taste is. Thanks anyway.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Cocko said:


> Great point!
> 
> A change in environment and all of a sudden a change with the fermenters within that environment.... Hmm...
> 
> Second hand AirCon?


No, the air con is new and I sanitised the filter and the front of the A/C


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## mxd (14/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Like that's going to change!



mmm, maybe easier not to read and respond rather than to degrade and criticize


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## jakub76 (14/10/10)

mxd said:


> mmm, maybe easier not to read and respond rather than to degrade and criticize


Yes fair call. 

My point is that Fasty's time could be better spent searching and absorbing the plethora of information available on this site and others rather than wasting a lot of people's time cranking up his post count.


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> No, the air con is new and I sanitised the filter and the front of the A/C



Hmm... Ok, lets do this.

Go take a hydro sample, taste it - and tell us the first thing that it makes you think of.. could be sardines, sour, lemons, vinegar, milkshake WHATEVER... taste a sample and tell us what it tastes like....

Not 'good' a flavour?


GO!


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Yes fair call.
> 
> My point is that Fasty's time could be better spent searching and absorbing the plethora of information available on this site and others rather than wasting a lot of people's time cranking up his post count.




I am sure it is just enthusiasm.. and being well pissed most the times.... but surely just enthusiasm....


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## jakub76 (14/10/10)

Cocko said:


> I am sure it is just enthusiasm.. and being well pissed most the times.... but surely just enthusiasm....


Perhaps. 

Just noticed your signature. I'm also a fan of Bill Hicks. Love how he deals with a female heckler


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Not trying to crank up my post count, it means SFA to me. I am just after good honest advice. If you don't like it jakub, well don't reply. As for batch 17 (the one with the SG reading of 1023) I just repitched it with Brigalow yeast in the packet and give it another week or 2. Will keep an eye on the SG readings. Still worried about batch 16 (the first few pics)


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Cocko said:


> Hmm... Ok, lets do this.
> 
> Go take a hydro sample, taste it - and tell us the first thing that it makes you think of.. could be sardines, sour, lemons, vinegar, milkshake WHATEVER... taste a sample and tell us what it tastes like....
> 
> ...


I did try it on about page 2. It tastes very normal. Just like a nice beer but warm. Smells sweetish, very drinkable if it was cold and carbed up. I have made a few batches I didn't like so I can tell the taste difference between bad and nice.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> Just noticed your signature. I'm also a fan of Bill Hicks. Love how he deals with a female heckler



Good link, maybe thats the way I feel about you jakub.


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> Just noticed your signature. I'm also a fan of Bill Hicks. Love how he deals with a female heckler





Golden, I have seen as much Bill as I can find, never seen that! Fuckin awesome, Cheers! So Hicks!...


Breaking Bad is great but Bill is therapy!



It's really weird how your life changes. Tonight I'm drinking water. Four years ago? ................Opium............. Night and day, you know?


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## kocken42 (14/10/10)

Chuck batch 16.

Heck, at the rate the rate you brew beer, it's almost insignificant 

In regards to batch 17, IF you did everything properly to begin with, it shouldn't take 3 weeks to get 1/4 of the way fermented.

Remember, home-brewing is a HOBBY (for most of us). Take pride in what you do.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

My Little Pony said:


> Chuck batch 16.
> 
> Heck, at the rate the rate you brew beer, it's almost insignificant
> 
> ...


Thanks mate. I think with 8 fermenters, it is no great loss to chuck out a batch. I want to brew nice beer and I have been happy with most of my batches. I am a bit concerned with batch 17 taking so long, but I put in another pack of brigalow yeast tonight to see if it speeds things up a bit.


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## jakub76 (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Good link, maybe thats the way I feel about you jakub.


Thanks, mutual. Here's another link you really should check out http://howtobrew.com/intro.html


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

Hey Fasty,

No digs, do you think you will ever move into using a bit of grain and hops?

Or are you solely about volume?

Seriously just asking..


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Thanks, mutual. Here's another link you really should check out http://howtobrew.com/intro.html




ROFL..


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Cocko said:


> Hey Fasty,
> 
> No digs, do you think you will ever move into using a bit of grain and hops?
> 
> ...


I am about to step up to some extra hops. No volume isn't my aim, I like nice beer too. manticle suggested some nice addittions and I will be trying them this weekend. Alls cool cocko. Sorry about my remarks last week. I was really upset at my friend dying at age 21.


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## Cocko (14/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> I am about to step up to some extra hops. No volume isn't my aim, I like nice beer too. manticle suggested some nice addittions and I will be trying them this weekend. Alls cool cocko. Sorry about my remarks last week. I was really upset at my friend dying at age 21.




I read.

No good.

Lets move forward... All good.

Manticle is a great member and I am sure he has given you some great tips...

Keep us posted.... Slow and steady wins the race.


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## fasty73 (14/10/10)

Pride of ringwood I believe was what he suggested to try and up my bitterness, but how long do I boil it for?


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Thanks, mutual. Here's another link you really should check out http://howtobrew.com/intro.html
> [/
> Thanks jakub, best advice you have given all night. I will read it when I have some more time and focus.


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## MaltyHops (15/10/10)

_Once you've had an infection get rid of the fermenter and start again._

I've read that plastic surfaces are porous so that when you get an infection,
the bacteria/their spores get into the surface holes making it very difficult to
get rid of so a source of infection will stick around.

Also are you aware of the need to clean the inside of fermenters gently to
avoid making scratches? Scratches will also harbour gunk and bacteria.
Are you using scourer pads by any chance? If so, might be best to get those
white ones that are supposed to be non-scratching - even then still use it
gently.

After a brew, the krausen usually create a ring of dried hops and trub that I
clean by first squirting some water on it, then work it loose with toothbrush
(actually a denture toothbrush, believe it or not), squirt away with more water
and then only very gently use a scourer pad for a final scrub. Then I would
soak the fermenter with sodium perc - all the way to the rim/lid.

Do you also unscrew the tap from the fermenter to clean out the thread (and
matching thread of the fermenter)? Again a small toothbrush is good for this.

And are you using one of those long stirring spoons? (In terms of cleaning
and also not scratching it - and sanitising it as well?

_What sanitiser are you using, might be worthwhile getting some Star-San ,
Iodophor or other non-rinse sanitiser. Sodium Met is junk._

If do take samples from the tap for tasting/SG testing, the tap spout should
also be cleaned otherwise wort can remain in the tap and be a source of infection
(probably more a problem for infecting bottles rather than the fermenter). I've
found an easy way to do this is to get a bottle cap of some sort (deep enough to
cover the spout), fill it with diluted phosphoric acid/starsan and bring it up around
the spout to rinse it.

_You may be fine in glass bottles but it is a risk. The Styrofoam box is a good idea. ..._

I don't think knowingly creating potential bottle bombs is a good idea - and you
gotta open the styro box some time! I and some others here bottle in glass but
always include a couple of PET bottles for each batch as a carbonation pressure
check so if the PET ones feel rock hard when squeezed, it's time to tread carefully!
So it might be worth buying at least some of the PET beer bottles for this purpose.

_... pre-boiling your water and refrigerating it before you brew ..._

This could be a necessity - keep in mind to make sure the water container is also
cleaned/sanitised.

T.


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Thanks for the detailed info. I NEVER use a scourer, I only use a chux, which is put in the sterliser everytime I clean bottle (every 2 days). I have found my flaw I believe. I was only using bottle wash and NOT steriliser to clean my fermenters. I do take out the taps every time and clean them well. I only use my stirring spoon after it has been sterilised.


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Still don't know if should ditch batch 16 or bottle it tomorow night??


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## pk.sax (15/10/10)

fist of all fasty, you ARE more experienced at brewing than me  I'm just a bit more experimenting (and maybe read more.. maybe just!)

look, as with chucking something out.. I won't do it before the gravity stops moving. If its rank at Final gravity, yes I will tip it out.

But for fuks sake, let it finish.

There are beers in this world made from really crude methods. And those made with really wild stuff. Some are Awesome. Belgian lambics anyone! well, you are using malt extract and sugar in a fashion so its possible. The fact that it tasted OK to you at this stage means its not a goner yet, but the extra sugar remaining might be masking the real taste. Let it finish fermenting and have nothing to hide, then judge it.. and oh, keep testing along the way.

cheers

PK

PS: Sorry if I am wrong and you are talking about being already finished up fermenting. too many posts above! And do read How to brew, the link jakub gave you above, in all honesty, I haven't finished reading it yet. I need a paper copy, digital reading sucks.


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## Synthetase (15/10/10)

I thought I'd add this to the conversation:

As a general rule of thumb, spore-forming bacteria really aren't much of a problem in beer and wine making. These bacteria are ubiquitous in the environment - many of them are free-living soil organisms - and so their spores are already on your brewing equipment. Their spores are also very difficult to eradicate, the vast majority of chemical disinfectants (excluding a couple of real nasties like formaldehyde) wont kill them - including boiling water and extreme pH (acid or base). However, their growth is generally inhibited by the low pH and alcohol content of beer and they also have complex nutritional requirements not satisfied by wort; hence why we don't have _Bacillus_-filled beer all the time.


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

It has been fermenting for 19 days, so as you can see, I am in no hurry. SG was 1006 on the 29/9/2010 and 1006 on 14/10/2010.


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## pk.sax (15/10/10)

then you should really get into bulk priming and cut down on lolly costs and bottle this M* already. Worst thing that can happen is that it will give you much gas when you drink it (Please drink this one slowly for your own sake) and if that is happening everytime you drink it, it maybe is infected and you can tip the bottles onto the grass. If you really can't be arsed, bottle a few and tip the rest.


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## Hatchy (15/10/10)

I can't believe a new thread here got to page 5 before I saw it. I've been working too hard.

My $0.02, don't ditch those fermenters. If you think they're suss then fill them with sod perc/pbw/napisan & stick some filthy bottles in there for a soak. Read how to brew, I got my paper copy from ebay for under $25. Get some no-rinse sanitiser, starsan is right up there as 1 of my brewing best buddies. NEVER tip a batch unless you are CERTAIN that it's infected. If you haven't hit yr fg then don't bottle, leave it. PET may be less likely to kill people but the amount of beer on the floor will be the same. Taste the beer, hydro readings won't taste like the finished product but after a while they'll give you an indication of where yr at. There's other things I thought of while reading this thread that I can't remember now but most importantly NEVER tip a batch unless you are CERTAIN that it's infected. I won't speak for anyone else but for me there's too much time, effort & love in my beer to tip it on the lawn. I don't care what my beer looks like in the fermenter unless I want to top crop. Leave the lid on, chill out & have a home brew. Without doing any research I find it unlikely that the AC is infecting the beer. If it is then yr airlocks aren't doing what they get paid for.


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## BjornJ (15/10/10)

Hi Fasty,

just my 2c:

If you taste the beer and it doesn't taste "funny" as in sour, hints of vinegar or lemon juice or anything else that seems "strange", just bottle it and put it somewhere the bottles can't cause damage in case the beer turns out to continue fermenting longer than it should and increase the pressure in the bottles.
Then after some weeks try a beer. If it's ok, nothing to worry about.
If it's funny, just empty the bottles and leave them to soak overnight in Napisan and try again.
Both of those brews look like nothing I've seen before, so I would be sceptical.
But hey, what's the worst that can happen right? If you don't like it after they are carbed up, just ditch them.


I had an infection once, it tasted lemony, like there were lemon juice or something in the beer. Not horrible or undrinkable, but definitely something there to pick up on. Just got worse with time, ended up being told I had a Lacto bacillus infection.
I cleaned and Napisaned everything, and started taking my taps apart, something I hadn't done before. 
I would only spray the tap with sanitiser after washing it with hot soapy water.
Now I take it apart every time.

Use a wooden spoon or something and put inside the tap, twist it half open. Holding the tap in your hand, hit it hard down on the kitchen bench top on the wooden spoon. After a couple of hits this separates the two plastic pieces of the tap, and in my case there was a bit of funny smell in there..


thanks
Bjorn


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## tallie (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Thanks for the detailed info. I NEVER use a scourer, I only use a chux, which is put in the sterliser everytime I clean bottle (every 2 days). I have found my flaw I believe. I was only using bottle wash and NOT steriliser to clean my fermenters. I do take out the taps every time and clean them well. I only use my stirring spoon after it has been sterilised.



Have you been using the same bottle wash on your bottles, without any actual sanitiser? If so, keep in mind that some of your bottled beer may end up in the same state as that fermenter and be undrinkable at best and dangerously explosive at worst.

Cheers,
tallie


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

I still have no concrete answer here. I just got 68 pete bottle, so I might sanatise them and bottle it in those, yeah?


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## outbreak (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> I still have no concrete answer here. I just got 68 pete bottle, so I might sanatise them and bottle it in those, yeah?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but with limited questions and using the info avaliable on this site, I have been able to progress from k&K to extract, to AG BIAB, with ease. I know forums are a place to have questions asked, but for f(*&ks sake these people are not here to hold your hand and wipe your ass. Make a decision and live with it, if you make the wrong one, well learn form it, its not going to make the sky fall down. I am sorry but it just shits me when people need someone to walk them through something every step of the way when they have the ability to research it themselves and the information is readily avaliable, its just plain lazy.


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Well I was hoping someone had seen this in their own brew and tell what happened to them. To quote a famous rapper "if you ain't got nothin nice to say then don't say nothin".


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## milob40 (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> I have learnt a terrible mistake. I am only using brigalow bottle washing powder!! My bad I guees.



what can i say ........ starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan, starsan,
and throw out your brew spoon if it looks scratched, i found this to be the cause of my problems when first brewed years ago.


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## yardy (15/10/10)

fasty,

i admire your enthusiasm for the craft but like a few others have advised you need to slow down a little and do some reading, some links.

http://www.homebrewdownunder.com/index.php?topic=132.0

http://www.homebrewdownunder.com/index.php?topic=133.0

cheers


----------



## outbreak (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Well I was hoping someone had seen this in their own brew and tell what happened to them. To quote a famous rapper "if you ain't got nothin nice to say then don't say nothin".



People have commented on what is happening... read evaluate the comments and make a decision. 

I will say something if its not nice if its deserved, mediocrity is terrible for all involved.


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

OK, decision is made. I am going to bottle it (leave the last 3 litres or so in fermenter and tip out) in PETE bottles that I got tonight (68 bottles for $25) and give it a go. Thank you everyone for your help, I do appreciate all advice given. Will update when I drink it in about a month, I will bottle tonight as SG has fallen to 1004 from SG 1034. As someone said, I will drink it slow and just try one or 2 per night. Then if anyone ever has them happen, then they will know what to do. I did open the lid to check it tonight and it did smell a little like vinegar (bad I know) But hey, you don't know until you try it.


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## Nevalicious (15/10/10)

Hatchy said:


> I can't believe a new thread here got to page 5 before I saw it. I've been working too hard.
> 
> I know, what the...



It seems (and seriously nothing against Fasty's enthusiasm) that most of his topics go thus far very quickly??!!!!




BjornJ said:


> I had an infection once, it tasted lemony, like there were lemon juice or something in the beer. Not horrible or undrinkable, but definitely something there to pick up on. Just got worse with time, ended up being told I had a Lacto bacillus infection.
> I cleaned and Napisaned everything, and started taking my taps apart, something I hadn't done before.
> I would only spray the tap with sanitiser after washing it with hot soapy water.
> Now I take it apart every time.
> ...


 Solid, solid advice. I have had only two infections (gushers??!!) after 30 odd brews and they suck! I now follow this method religiously



fasty73 said:


> I still have no concrete answer here. I just got 68 pete bottle, so I might sanatise them and bottle it in those, yeah?



Yes you do, on page 2, 3, 4 etc. Chuck it! Its a $12 brew. Sanitise better in the future as everyone has posted (starsa, iodo etc) and cut your losses. 

Cheers

Tyler


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Yes Nev, I did get alot of answers but some were in contradiction to others.


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## Nevalicious (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Yes Nev, I did get alot of answers but some were in contradiction to others.



Ok, I speak from experience then. I wouldn't bottle if suss on the plain fact that its a pain in the arse washing/sanitising all of those bottles just to find out in 1-2 months you're too scared to go near them for fear of receiving glass shards to the face. Infections chew through more of the remaining sugaz than normal yeast do, resulting in higher carbonation and potential bottle bombs. 

Since you bottle in glass (as do I) this should be you're no. 1 concern. I caught my infected beers early in the piece and only had gushers... No bombs. I was lucky.

Only giving/recommending solid advice because I am a relative noob too. AG BIAB but still noob! 

Brew on Fasty. Brew on :beerbang:

edit : speeeeeling


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## hoohaaman (15/10/10)

Fasty,my 2c worth.Both brews seem infected imho I would save half a dozen bottles of each and taste at various intervals so you know how quickly they will deteriorate and/or turn into gushers.

Pellicles like you have are never good,unless of course you want one.Wasted far too much time pretending bad beers were drinkable when i should have tipped them.

Your time is better spent cleaning,cleaning cleaning every part of your brewery,because once an infection takes hold it is frustrating and hard to track down and eradicate.


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## beerbog (15/10/10)

Thank f&^k that's over. :beerbang:


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

NOW we are on the right track guys. Nevalicous, I got 68 PETE bottles, so bottle bombs are less of a problem with this batch, BUT taking the last 2 bits of advice, I am only going to bottle 6 PETE bottles and tip the rest out (will be major pissed if it turns out nice) but these are the chances we take and learning from them is only a good thing. An old fella at work got me onto what I was doing wrong, I was only using bottle washing powder (alkaline salts) to wash everything, now I have metabisulphite. I think I may have a couple more batches go bad before I have cleaned the fermenters with metabisulphite instead of bottle washing detergent!!!


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## Nevalicious (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> NOW we are on the right track guys. Nevalicous, I got 68 PETE bottles, so bottle bombs are less of a problem with this batch, BUT taking the last 2 bits of advice, I am only going to bottle 6 PETE bottles and tip the rest out (will be major pissed if it turns out nice) but these are the chances we take and learning from them is only a good thing. An old fella at work got me onto what I was doing wrong, I was only using bottle washing powder (alkaline salts) to wash everything, now I have metabisulphite. I think I may have a couple more batches go bad before I have cleaned the fermenters with metabisulphite instead of bottle washing detergent!!!



Cool, but you ask us for help right... You take on board the best advice... Sanitation... Then choose to ignore previous posts of STARSAN STARSAN STARSAN, IODOPHER and go with the Sodium Met. Seriously???


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## Acasta (15/10/10)

Nevalicious said:


> Cool, but you ask us for help right... You take on board the best advice... Sanitation... Then choose to ignore previous posts of STARSAN STARSAN STARSAN, IODOPHER and go with the Sodium Met. Seriously???


Just because people all say the same thing doesn't mean its right. 

But you are right is saying, fatsy, sanitation is what will help you for future batches. Choose a method that WORKS. I use bleach and vinegar. Try what you want.


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## Cocko (15/10/10)

Proxitane.

Best no rinse on the market - I am saying it AND its right!

Fasty, it may not work for you as it is pretty dangerous undiluted, I would never handle it pissed! Maybe you have a 2 hour window during the day you can work with it!


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

OK. I am not ignoring. I just don't know the difference between the 2. Where di I get STARSAN STARSAN STARSAN?


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Cocko said:


> Proxitane.
> 
> Best no rinse on the market - I am saying it AND its right!
> 
> Fasty, it may not work for you as it is pretty dangerous undiluted, I would never handle it pissed! Maybe you have a 2 hour window during the day you can work with it!


I don't finish work until 5pm, so I reakon I am sober until oh about 5:30 :lol: :chug:


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## beerbog (15/10/10)

Acasta said:


> But you are right is saying, fatsy, sanitation is what will help you for future batches. Choose a method that WORKS. I use bleach and vinegar. Try what you want.



mmm.... :beerbang:


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

mmmmm.....????????????


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## beerbog (15/10/10)

Acasta said:


> Just because people all say the same thing doesn't mean its right.
> 
> But you are right is saying, fatsy, sanitation is what will help you for future batches. Choose a method that WORKS. I use bleach and vinegar. Try what you want.




Bleach works for me too, 1/2 cup in the fermentor filled with cold water. 
Soak the tap, sed reducer and air lock in it also. :beerbang:


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## Florian (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> OK. I am not ignoring. I just don't know the difference between the 2. Where di I get STARSAN STARSAN STARSAN?



http://craftbrewer.com/shop/details.asp?PID=2533


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## jakub76 (15/10/10)

DJR said:


> might be worthwhile getting some Star-San , Iodophor or other non-rinse sanitiser. Sodium Met is junk.





fasty73 said:


> An old fella at work got me onto what I was doing wrong, I was only using bottle washing powder (alkaline salts) to wash everything, now I have metabisulphite.



I'll say it again...brew-tard. Instead of sitting back with a tall glass of homemade toilet water chuckling at how popular you are on this forum, please go to www.howtobrew.com and learn something. Failing that take all of your future concerns straight to the old fella at your work that you listen to coz you clearly aren't listening to the brewers here.


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## Hatchy (15/10/10)

Florian said:


> http://craftbrewer.com/shop/details.asp?PID=2533



What he said. Don't sanitise with sod met man, if you have to rinse it then yr reintroducing the bacteria you just killed. I bought the bottle linked at about the time I joined here & it's still going. 1 infected batch out of 30 odd & that was from a tap full of hop flowers.

STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN! STARSAN!


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## yardy (15/10/10)

swap the sanitation around every couple of weeks, bleach then betadine then starsan then bleach then betadine then starsan....


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## Cocko (15/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> I'll say it again...brew-tard. Instead of sitting back with a tall glass of homemade toilet water chuckling at how popular you are on this forum, please go to www.howtobrew.com and learn something. Failing that take all of your future concerns straight to the old fella at your work that you listen to coz you clearly aren't listening to the brewers here.




He has apologised profusely about his prior activity.... but each to their own forgiveness..

Remind me never to 'heckle' you at a gig! :lol: 

:icon_cheers:


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## Muggus (15/10/10)

Cocko said:


> Proxitane.
> 
> Best no rinse on the market - I am saying it AND its right!
> 
> Fasty, it may not work for you as it is pretty dangerous undiluted, I would never handle it pissed! Maybe you have a 2 hour window during the day you can work with it!


Agreed...Proxitane is a fantastic santiser, possibly one of the best. Just a bit dangerous...and pretty bloody potent smelling too, but it certainly helps to know if it's done its job. 
And on that note, and just by personal preference, not that I don't trust the stuff, but I do like to quickly rinse anything that comes into contact with the stuff before use...the smell can be a bit disconcerting.

And on a similar note, has anyone had experience with Cleanskin in the beer industry. We use it to sanitise things in the winery at TAFE, along with a citric acid solution.


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> I'll say it again...brew-tard. Instead of sitting back with a tall glass of homemade toilet water chuckling at how popular you are on this forum, please go to www.howtobrew.com and learn something. Failing that take all of your future concerns straight to the old fella at your work that you listen to coz you clearly aren't listening to the brewers here.



So "nice" to hear from you again oh master of everything great.


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## Cocko (15/10/10)

Proxitane


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Where do I get it mate? My LHBS?


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

The "scum" seems to have reduced since I put finnings in 25 hours ago. Puttting in 22 bottles in PETE 600ml bottles. Will keep a close eye on them.


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## hoohaaman (15/10/10)

INFECTED


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## jakub76 (15/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> The "scum" seems to have reduced since I put finnings in


That will sort it right out. Good work!


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## warra48 (15/10/10)

Proxitane is no doubt a very good product, but I wouldn't try to use it until you build up more experience.

There are a number of posts in this thread pointing you to Starsan (get it from CraftBrewer, use the sponsor link a the top), or Iodophor which is available from most good HB shops.

It seems to me you have run into an infection problem, because clearly your sanitation routine was inadequate.
I'll repeat, for a new brewer, in my view, your best options are Starsan or Iodophor. Each of those are no rinse, meaning that once you have sanitised your equipment, just drain it, and you're ready to go. 

One further thing, I agree it's useful to take your taps apart after every brew. It's the only way to really get them clean.


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## fcmcg (15/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> That will sort it right out. Good work!


Jakub...no need to be a mike hunt.....the blokes doin' his best...we all started some where...
Cheers
Ferg


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## fasty73 (15/10/10)

Going to my LHBS for some spartan and ring of pridewood tomoz.


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## Muggus (16/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> The "scum" seems to have reduced since I put finnings in 25 hours ago. Puttting in 22 bottles in PETE 600ml bottles. Will keep a close eye on them.


I'd be mindful seeing fungal colonies like that.
By the looks, it's probably some kind of wild yeast, and chances are, even if you have racked the beer off all of that yeast, their fermentation by-products are more than likely in your beer, and there's a good chance some are in suspension in your beer. From here on in, it's not gonna be smooth sailing, and things could go back quickly.


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## jakub76 (16/10/10)

fergthebrewer said:


> we all started some where


OK fine. My start didn't include ignoring 90% of advice and bottling effluent but I see your point so I'm out.
Best


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## fcmcg (16/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> OK fine. My start didn't include ignoring 90% of advice and bottling effluent but I see your point so I'm out.
> Best


Best thing he could do , is join a brew club......


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## fasty73 (16/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> OK fine. My start didn't include ignoring 90% of advice and bottling effluent but I see your point so I'm out.
> Best


Finally!!


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## Hatchy (16/10/10)

fergthebrewer said:


> Best thing he could do , is join a brew club & in 6 months time he'll have 8 cornies, an urn, an esky with a BB falsie, an italian spiral burner, a plate chiller & a partridge in a pear tree.



I'm pretty sure I typed what Ferg was thinking.


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## goomboogo (16/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> OK, decision is made. I am going to bottle it (leave the last 3 litres or so in fermenter and tip out) in PETE bottles that I got tonight (68 bottles for $25) and give it a go. Thank you everyone for your help, I do appreciate all advice given. Will update when I drink it in about a month, I will bottle tonight as SG has fallen to 1004 from SG 1034. As someone said, I will drink it slow and just try one or 2 per night. Then if anyone ever has them happen, then they will know what to do. I did open the lid to check it tonight and it did smell a little like vinegar (bad I know) But hey, you don't know until you try it.



I've been off-line for a couple days so haven't seen this thread. I've just skimmed through so may have missed some pertinent information. A couple days ago you said it tasted like non-carbonated beer and seemed to taste reasonable. The post above states that a day later the gravity has continued to drop to 1004 and you are now perceiving a vinegar-like aroma. Others as well as yourself have commented on changes to your future cleaning/sanitation regime. However, as far as this particular batch is concerned, I would not bother to bottle it. There is no doubt the beer is infected and you have noticed a decline in just the past 24 hours. If you bottle the batch you can be assured the decline will continue. Bottling in PET is safer than glass but that doesn't mean there is not potential for a rather large mess in a month's time, if not before. There are threads on this forum about PET bottles letting go under high pressure. You may not end up with a mess but you will end up with undrinkable beer with this particular batch.

Take my advice with a grain of salt but I wouldn't be bottling this batch now that it is not only showing visual signs of infection but also in aroma and most likely in flavour by this stage.


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## beerbog (16/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Going to my LHBS for some spartan and ring of pridewood tomoz.



Where do I get Ring of Pridewood from? :beerbang:


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## Lecterfan (16/10/10)

Gibbo1 said:


> Where do I get Ring of Pridewood from? :beerbang:




First the council elders must elect you ring bearer. From there the journey is perilous...the Ring of Pridewood has been the downfall of many great kings and 'tis said that it awakens a darkness in the hearts of all men. h34r:


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## fasty73 (16/10/10)

LOL, yeah maybe I was a bit pissed. It's ring of pridewood, jokes on me. I didn't get to my LHBS as I had to mow the forest that was my front lawn. Maybe tomoz if he's open. No one picked up on the spartan!! I'll try and get starsan instead. I did bottle 20 PETE bottles of that batch but I think I will end up tipping it out. Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. 
P.S That was pretty funny Lecterfan


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## petesbrew (16/10/10)

Fasty, I barely made it to page 3.
Can you save me another 4 pages of timewasting, and give me a recap of where you're at?
Good to see you've finally tasted a hydrometer sample. I'd rather taste a sample than look in the top of my fermenter. (that shit's never pretty!)
As for cleaners I use Pink Stain Remover, Iodophor & Bleach/Vinegar (obviously not all at the same time)

And FFS, "tomoz"? what are you, a 13 yr old Bieberphile? <_< 
It's tomorrow, Tomorra, or the fucken day after today bullshit f##king!


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## hoohaaman (17/10/10)

Fasty,buy some STARSAN NOW from one of the site sponsors.I think it will save numerous threads on chlorine.band aid,metallic,medicinal and any other number of tastes I fore vision you perceiving in the next few weeks.

Oh and read a book by John Palmer.TWICE


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/10/10)

hoohaaman said:


> Fasty,buy some STARSAN NOW from one of the site sponsors.I think it will save numerous threads on chlorine.band aid,metallic,medicinal and any other number of tastes I fore vision you perceiving in the next few weeks.
> 
> Oh and read a book by John Palmer.TWICE



Needs to learn how to read first - otherwise this thread would never have been created in the first place.

I'm telling you, illiteracy is becoming widespread.

Goomba


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## hoohaaman (17/10/10)

Sage point.


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## rotten (17/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> The "scum" seems to have reduced since I put finnings in 25 hours ago. Puttting in 22 bottles in PETE 600ml bottles. Will keep a close eye on them.




Why would anyone want to bottle, then drink anything that looked like that?
You need help mate :blink: 
Cheers


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## fasty73 (17/10/10)

Well, in regards to the batch that I put photo's up of (the one that looked like the moon), it has been in the bottle for 2 days and it smells like vinegar. So to all who said "bottle it", you were wrong, to all that said "tip it", you were right. Now if anyone gets a batch that looks like that, TIP IT OUT. I hope we have all learned a lesson from this, I sure have. I have changed my sterilising methods. Now I have 22 bottles to tip out and re-clean and sterilise. Please keep the comments neutral (or keep them to yourself if negative.) We all have learnt from this experience that whatever was on top of my brew was BAD! 


(It's the first pic in this thread).


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## manticle (17/10/10)

Bad luck fasty. Can happen - you need to be super careful with your next few batches. No matter what sanitiser you use; nothing will work unless everything is clean first.

I thoroughly recommend you read at least the first 2 or 3 chapters of the aformentioned text before your next brew. It will answer a lot of questions you may have and is a reference you can keep coming back to.

Slow down a bit, buy a few cartons if you have to and learn a bit more about the process. It's a lot of fun when it works but tipping it is not fun at all. I've done it and you're about to so you know what I mean.


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## petesbrew (17/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Well, in regards to the batch that I put photo's up of (the one that looked like the moon), it has been in the bottle for 2 days and it smells like vinegar. So to all who said "bottle it", you were wrong, to all that said "tip it", you were right. Now if anyone gets a batch that looks like that, TIP IT OUT. I hope we have all learned a lesson from this, I sure have. I have changed my sterilising methods. Now I have 22 bottles to tip out and re-clean and sterilise. Please keep the comments neutral (or keep them to yourself if negative.) We all have learnt from this experience that whatever was on top of my brew was BAD!
> 
> 
> (It's the first pic in this thread).


And to all those who said taste your hydrometer sample before choosing whether to tip or not, you're right.

You've gotta take the good with the bad, Fasty. We all lose one now and again, and it's mainly due to cutting corners with cleanliness. (Fingers crossed with my latest AG yesterday!)


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## beerbog (17/10/10)

Good luck Fatsy.... :beerbang:


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## rotten (17/10/10)

Only ever lost one brew and that was to an infection, fermentation stalled from an out of date kit and yeast before AG days and I left it far too long. Didn't bottle it though.
Learnt from it, don't cut corners, check dates on kits & yeast, clean & sanitise really good for next brew. All the best.
Cheers


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## fasty73 (17/10/10)

Thanks guys. I taste my hydro test samples now. Although that one did taste good at first but went down hill really fast. Live and learn I guess. Full revision of my sanitising now in place. Put a new batch down in that fermenter after 28 hours of soaking it. Lets see if it's clean enough this time.


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## Dazza_devil (17/10/10)

Learning things the hard way has it's advantages.
To know something can close the mind to learning.
To understand something takes an open mind.
Brewing is art.


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## Cocko (17/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Learning things the hard way has it's advantages.
> To know something can close the mind to learning.
> To understand something takes an open mind.
> Brewing is art.




I don't know art.. but I know I like Beer!


B)


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## rotten (17/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Learning things the hard way has it's advantages.
> To know something can close the mind to learning.
> To understand something takes an open mind.
> Brewing is art.



I don't know what you're on boagsy but it's serving you well :icon_cheers: 
Cheers


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## jyo (17/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Learning things the hard way has it's advantages.
> To know something can close the mind to learning.
> To understand something takes an open mind.
> Brewing is art.



Nice work, Boagsy!
Fasty, I just had a look over my old brewing records from KnK days. In just over 270 brews I had four notable infections, and I remember them pretty well. Vegemite flavours, vinegar....It broke my f*ckin heart to tip all that beer down the drain, and as a result, my sanitation regime got better. 
As long as you can learn from mistakes, take on good advice from others and find a product/ combo of sanitation products that work for you, then you will only improve your beer. 
Cheers, John.


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## fasty73 (21/10/10)

Just an update. I cleaned that fermenter really weel and it has had a batch in it for 4 days now and NO signs of nastys on top. I know it's a bit early but I think I have nailed this infection problem on the head. I have a really strict cleaning regime now and think it will work better for me.
Cheers.


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## hoohaaman (21/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Just an update. I cleaned that fermenter really weel and it has had a batch in it for 4 days now and NO signs of nastys on top. I know it's a bit early but I think I have nailed this infection problem on the head. I have a really strict cleaning regime now and think it will work better for me.
> Cheers.



I would have it soaking in a bleach solution still.Did you remember to pull apart the tap as well?Cleaned and sanitized?

What cleaning and sanitizing regime did you use?

Just curious as I rarely see such a quick solution to a very obvious infection.


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## fasty73 (21/10/10)

Yes, I pulled the tap apart and soaked the whole lot in a mix of hot water and a very strong dose of sodium metabisulphite. I know I was told to use STARSAN but I couldn't get to my LHBS. First I washed the fermenter in hot water and then soaked in the mix for over 24 hours.


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## felten (21/10/10)

sod met is more of an inhibitor than a sanitiser, http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=18

bleach is a better alternative, or bleach and acidified water as per the above link ^


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## manticle (21/10/10)

Sodium met works best due to the gas (sulphur dioxide) emitted when the solution has dried. Generally to use effectively - make up to recommended propoertion (no more, no less) soak/coat everything then drain and allow to dry. Once dry, let stand an hour before rinsing.

I have used it (still use it but in conjunction with other sanitisers) and found it to work fine. The fact that it needs to be rinsed is part of the issue with it but my experience is that it gets a worse rep than it deserves. It is probably better for killing wild yeast than starsan which is supposedly a yeast nutrient. Star san is easier to use, less toxic and probably more efficient at killing bacteria.


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## fasty73 (21/10/10)

Thanks mate, looks like I will switch to bleach.


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## hoohaaman (21/10/10)

Oh, and Fasty READ CAREFULLY about mixing/accidentally mixing different household/brew chemicals.

It can be very DANGEROUS.


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## jyo (21/10/10)

Didn't you say you were going to ditch the met (lung cleaner)? Mate, I would've had that baby still soaking in bleach too. I hope it turns out ok.


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## manticle (21/10/10)

fasty73 said:


> Thanks mate, looks like I will switch to bleach.





Bleach is strong and a good sanitiser but may still need to be rinsed. If very carefully measured, you can use a proportion that requires no rinsing but unrinsed bleach in the wrong proportion can make your beer taste like a band-aid. Yes I've done it.

Hoohaman also has a good point - you shouldn't mix oxygen bleach (napisan etc) with chlorine bleach. Nor should you mix vinegar and chlorine incorrectly. Please read up on it first.

There is loads of info out there. Please start reading some of it. Then ask questions for clarification.


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## fasty73 (21/10/10)

Ok, thanks manticle.


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## slimygreen (25/10/10)

I know i've come in a bit late with this but the first one "Moon Beer" looks like "Flor" yeast, the same stuff that they use for concentrating sherry. it probably would have been OK if you bottled it as i don't think it would have contributed to the flavour.

i have also had this from a batch of coopers yeast which i put into a starter as an experiement to test taste and flocculency of different yeasts. all the other yeasts were fine in the experiement, so it may not have been your fault, it still tasted fine and was at normal gravity at the end.

This yeast will only grow like that in a oxygen environment, i'd be checking on the seal of your fermenter or try using glad wrap and the rubber ring from the lid to seal, i've found this works well can you can check on whats going on. One of my fermenter has a leek/seal problem and it makes it hard to know if things are happening as the air lock only operates when the yeast is in full swing then stops as things slow down.

P.S. get some starsan or saniclean or other no-rinse sanitiser, put it in a squirt bottle, use liberally on anything that goes near your brew!


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## fasty73 (25/10/10)

Thanks mate. I just tipped out 20 of the 22 bottles. I am keeping 2 bottles just to try. It was pretty mad when I opened the bottle (PETE bottles), they foamed up pretty wildly, the bottom sediment came rushing to the top and foamed up ( bad sign I think). 
I have found the source of my infection. It came from my stirring spoon, it was a plastic one that we used to cook our food with. I got up this morning and it had white growths all over it (shoulda taken a pic), so I just went and got a stainless steel one that is now ONLY for my brews.


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## raven19 (25/10/10)

Fingers crossed you have nailed this issue mate.

Nothing more frustrating imo.


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## fasty73 (26/10/10)

Do you think soaking these bottles for 24 hours in starsan is long enough?


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## cdbrown (26/10/10)

Anything that may be source of infection get's a soak in napisan, then a spray with starsan.


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## fasty73 (3/11/10)

Good news. I put a brew in that fermenter on the 11/10/10 and NO signs of infection. Will bottle that batch on the weekend.


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