# Theakstone's Old Peculier



## NRB (7/4/07)

I stumbled across a recipe on the greenboard a while back and decided today that I'd like to do an overnight mash and early finish a beer tomorrow. The original recipe called for:

7.5lb MO
1lb Crystal 60
0.5lb Torrefied Wheat
0.25lb Black
1lb sugar

1oz Fuggles boil
0.75oz Challenger 15mins

Munton's Gold (most important part)

I've never used Munton's Gold, but bought a pack today to try out. Also can't get my hands on Challenger, so have used Target which I have on hand.

I came up with this recipe:

NRB's Old Peculier Clone

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

19-A Strong Ale, Old Ale

Min OG: 1.060 Max OG: 1.108
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 80
Min Clr: 25 Max Clr: 68 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.87
Anticipated OG: 1.063 Plato: 15.42
Anticipated EBC: 53.7
Anticipated IBU: 35.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

*Pre-Boil Amounts*
----------------
Evaporation Rate: 17.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 32.21 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.047 SG 11.64 Plato

*Formulas Used*
-------------
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %

*Grain/Extract/Sugar*
% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.2 4.30 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 37.00 7
9.8 0.57 kg. Crystal 55L Great Britian 34.00 145
4.9 0.29 kg. TF Torrefied Wheat UK 35.00 3
2.4 0.14 kg. JWM Roasted Malt Australia 32.00 1613
9.8 0.57 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 46.21 0

Potential represented as Points per pound per gallon.

*Hops*
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 5.00 25.7 60 min.
27.00 g. Wye Target Pellet 11.00 10.2 15 min.

Munton's Gold

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66

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I wouldn't mind a little feedback on this prior to weighing and crushing the grains... h34r:


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## goatherder (7/4/07)

My recollection of this beer is a little hazy, but I remember it was pretty heavy on the crystal. I reckon you are on the right track.

The zymurgy recipe database spreadsheet that's been posted a few times before says the following for Old Peculier:

72% Pale
10% Crystal
2% Black
8% maltose syrup
8% invert cane sugar
OG 1.058, Fuggles to 29 IBUs, colour 95 EBC


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## NRB (7/4/07)

Thanks GH. What about mash temps, with the 10% sugar I have, should I mash a little hotter to prevent too thin a body?


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## goatherder (7/4/07)

From memory it was pretty drinkable so I wouldn't be too concerned about thin. You've got heaps of crystal which will give you some body without having to mash too high. I reckon you are looking good with 66 - I'd probably go a little higher to 67.


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## NRB (7/4/07)

Thanks again. Gotta hit the kitchen for some dinner before I look at brewing time!


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## neonmeate (7/4/07)

i've always heard that old peculier had molasses in it? mustve read that in a few different sources.


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## NRB (7/4/07)

In the greenboard thread Dan Listermann states that it is a common misconception. According to Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz it's not used.


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## neonmeate (7/4/07)

I wouldn't be so quick to take Dan Listermann's word for it... he is just saying as proof that he thinks Wheeler is a trustworthy source... which is highly questionable as many of the recipes in Wheeler's books are extremelt speculative - some are based on hard data, others are fudged, and he never tells you which are which. besides, listermann's plugging a molasses-less kit for peculier that his homebrew shop sells.

on the other hand i don't have much to sway your opinion the other way other than having always thought that it did have molasses in it. all my beer books are out of reach at the moment but i'm sure i heard this originally from MJ? it certainly tastes like it's got molasses in it.


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## poppa joe (7/4/07)

Was having a COFFEE with a Pommie(Little lunch at TAFE)
He was at The brewery..on a visit ..Asked why they call it "Old Peculiar"
REPLY WAS "Because you don't know what you are getting"
Cheers 
PJ


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## NRB (7/4/07)

Once again thanks for the constructive input fellas. I decided to go with what I had and have now crushed the grains. Even if it's not an exact clone (which it can't with hop substitute anyway), I just wanted to get a nice old ale down; I think it should turn out an acceptable number nevertheless.


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## neonmeate (7/4/07)

NRB said:


> I think it should turn out an acceptable number nevertheless.


for sure! sorry don't mean to be nitpicky, just making dorky homebrew conversation


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## NRB (7/4/07)

Argh!! The burner I mentioned in the leaking gas thread is now obviously leaking so much that my Gasmate safety vavle is coming into play! I filled the HLT and went to heat my strike water but can't have the burner running without pressing down the button on the gasmate.

I don't have any Araldite either, so can't fix the blasted thing! I need to get an elbow or straight pipe to bypass the shitty valve. So much for a short brew day tomorrow... the plan was to finish one before 10am and start another later in the day when a mate came around. Hopefully I can knock a single batch out.

Not happy. :angry: 

Oh, and neonmeate, you're not nit picky; I asked for feedback and you gave it. I have a recipe now for a beer, but can try something else in the future. :beer:


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## Goat (8/4/07)

NRB

Its a great beer, I've tried and failed to brew miserably on at least two occasions. 

You could try Golden Syrup instead of white sugar, but other than that, I can't really add much. 

There is (to my taste) a lot of crystal in there, but it still escapes me. I'm sure these traditional beers must have a very simple grist, but its got me stuffed. 

Let us know how it comes out - its a beer that I'd really like to crack.

I gave up on the gas-fuse with my nasa a while ago - bloody thing wouldn't light with the fuse in, it kept on tripping out. It still scares me with that noise, but I still have my eye brows.


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## razz (8/4/07)

For NRB, Goat and anyone else that's interested, below is the recipe from "Brew your own real ale at home" by Wheeler and Protz.
Pale malt 72%
Crystal 10%
Black malt 2%
Maltose syrup 8%
Sugar 8%
Challenger and Fuggles at start of boil
Fuggles at 15 mins
Mash temp 66, boil 2 hours, OG 58 FG 12 EBU 30
The book doesn't quote yeast types.
Described as "Toffee and roast malt in the mouth; deep, bitter sweet finish with delicate hop underpinning.


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## NRB (8/4/07)

Looks like the brew day is now off. Whilst preparing breakfast this morning I sliced my right hand open and have spend the last 3 hours at the local ER. Seeing one's own subcutaneous fat is an interesting thing. Lucky I was planning on using a dry yeast for this one and didn't have a starter ready to pitch!


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## Goat (8/4/07)

Sorry to hear that NRB - hope its all OK.

Now I understand - that Avatar is a nurse running to your aid.....


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## NRB (8/4/07)

I'll be right Goat, but thanks for the concern anyway. All's not lost though - a mate just rang and is keen to brew! He's going by Bunnings on his way over here to fetch some Araldite to seal the burner. With any luck, we'll get something done, even if it's only getting an overnight mash started.

As I won't be able to lift anything, he's become the brewer and I'm the assistant!


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## brendanos (8/4/07)

If you were still interested in some advice NRB, Roy at T.W.O.C. (brew shop) in WA has brewed a few Theakston Old Peculiar clones recently at brew demos (I think it's one of his regulars) so might be able to offer some pointers. You can reach him any day of the week 11am-7pm EST on (08) 9418 8938.

Hope the hands ok.


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## NRB (8/4/07)

Okay, decided to up the ante... a mate is doing the brewing for me so let's make him work!

Now increased the batch to 34L and have the mash sitting at 68C now. 

Wish him luck! :chug:


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## hazard (24/11/09)

razz said:


> For NRB, Goat and anyone else that's interested, below is the recipe from "Brew your own real ale at home" by Wheeler and Protz.
> Pale malt 72%
> Crystal 10%
> Black malt 2%
> ...


To resurrect an old thread - I'm keen to try an Old Peculier clone. Found this using the search function. Surprisingly, Wheeler's latest edition has a very different recipe for Old Peculier:
for 23 litre
5.46kg ale malt
295 g crystal malt
215g choc malt

I've not been convinced with Wheeler's recipes, and this doesn't help. So, does anyone have a reliable recipe? In particular, I am looking for one with treacle. Which leads to another question - if treacle is used, do I really need Lyle's black treacle? Has anyone tried CSR treacle?


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## schooey (24/11/09)

I bought a copy of the Brew Your Own 150 Classic Clone Recipes a while ago, and the beers that I have brewed out of it have been very comparable. There is a recipe for Old Peculier in it that goes like this;

19L Batch
OG= 1.06 FG= !.013
IBU=30 SRM=32 ABV=6.0%

4.1 kg 2 Row Pale
0.34 kg Torrified Whaeat
0.34 kg Crystal (60L)
0.11 kg Crystal (120L)
85 g Chocolate Malt
0.23 kg Cane sugar @ 15min
0.14 Invert Sugar @ 15 mins
85 g Molasses @ 15 mins

22g Northern Brewer (9% AA) @ 60 min
14 g Fuggles (5% AA) @ 15 min

7g Fuggles (5% AA) Dry hopped for 5 days before kegging/bottling.

Single Step Infusion Mash @ 67C
Ferment @ 21C with WY 1028 or WLP026 

Like I said, not my recipe, but maybe worth a try. I would probably swap the Molasses for treacle, but thats just me. In my experience, the CSR stuff is fine...

Cheers... :beer:


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## hazard (25/11/09)

schooey said:


> I bought a copy of the Brew Your Own 150 Classic Clone Recipes a while ago, and the beers that I have brewed out of it have been very comparable. There is a recipe for Old Peculier in it that goes like this;
> 
> 19L Batch
> OG= 1.06 FG= !.013
> ...


Thanks for this schooey. I see that this recipe uses choc malt, most others use a bit of black malt. Also got 3 different sorts of sugar - seems a bit of overkill!
I found some black strap molasses at Cols today, what is difference between molasses and treacle? Would the black strap molasses be better alternative to CSR treacle?
Thanks


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## white.grant (26/11/09)

hazard said:


> Thanks for this schooey. I see that this recipe uses choc malt, most others use a bit of black malt. Also got 3 different sorts of sugar - seems a bit of overkill!
> I found some black strap molasses at Cols today, what is difference between molasses and treacle? Would the black strap molasses be better alternative to CSR treacle?
> Thanks



Treacle and molasses are pretty much the same thing, unrefined sugar - molasses being the american version, while treacle is the british. 

The CSR dark treacle is roughly equivalent to black strap. 

cheers

grant


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## Screwtop (26/11/09)

Grantw said:


> Treacle and molasses are pretty much the same thing, unrefined sugar - molasses being the american version, while treacle is the british.
> 
> The CSR dark treacle is roughly equivalent to black strap.
> 
> ...



I use unsulphered molasses for making rum. Seems quite different to Treacle, but have not compared it to Blackstrap. My understanding is that blackstrap is the end product after making light, then dark molasses and that it contains bitter compounds and lery little sucrose. Have used Lyles Syrup and Treacle for making beer.

Cheers,

Screwy


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## white.grant (26/11/09)

Screwtop said:


> I use unsulphered molasses for making rum. Seems quite different to Treacle, but have not compared it to Blackstrap. My understanding is that blackstrap is the end product after making light, then dark molasses and that it contains bitter compounds and lery little sucrose. Have used Lyles Syrup and Treacle for making beer.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Screwy



I have mispoke there (shouldn't post so early in the morning) - treacle and molasses are the _byproducts_ of the sugar refining process and not unrefined sugar. You are right Screwy, in how blackstrap is made. 

Lyles syrup is something else again, it apparently is a mixture of invert sugar and water -- according to Mosher. I use lyles golden syrup a lot in fruitcakes. It's delicious. 

cheers

grant


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## hazard (30/11/09)

Grantw said:


> I have mispoke there (shouldn't post so early in the morning) - treacle and molasses are the _byproducts_ of the sugar refining process and not unrefined sugar. You are right Screwy, in how blackstrap is made.
> 
> Lyles syrup is something else again, it apparently is a mixture of invert sugar and water -- according to Mosher. I use lyles golden syrup a lot in fruitcakes. It's delicious.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the replies fellas. It appears that I can use either CSR treacle or the black strap molasses so that's good. One further question though:
label on treacle says that it contains sugars 74%. I assume that the other 26% is water. So if I need 250g of treacle in an old ale, should I actually add 250 divided by 0.74 = 338 grams of syrupy treacle? The molasses I got was only 65% sugar, so by same method I would need 250g divided by 0.65 = 385grams. If I just used 250g of syrup, i would get a smaller amount of actual sugar, and varying amounts depending on how much water the manaufacturer adds.


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## white.grant (30/11/09)

hazard said:


> Thanks for the replies fellas. It appears that I can use either CSR treacle or the black strap molasses so that's good. One further question though:
> label on treacle says that it contains sugars 74%. I assume that the other 26% is water. So if I need 250g of treacle in an old ale, should I actually add 250 divided by 0.74 = 338 grams of syrupy treacle? The molasses I got was only 65% sugar, so by same method I would need 250g divided by 0.65 = 385grams. If I just used 250g of syrup, i would get a smaller amount of actual sugar, and varying amounts depending on how much water the manaufacturer adds.



I'm not sure it really matters but only experience will tell. I'd add what the recipe calls for without adjustment first time round and see how it fairs.

cheers

grant


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## hazard (14/3/10)

Finally got around to making an Old Peculier clone today. There are many different recipes around so I just sort of averaged them out to get this (for 23L)
5.2kg pale malt
320g med crystal
200g wheat malt
100g black malt
250g treacle (used the molasses that I had, and put in about 350g through clumsiness)
45g fuggles at 60 min
15g fuggles 20 min 
15g fuggles 10 min
15g fuggles 0 min (should be dry hopped apparently, but couldn't be arsed)
Wyeast 1187 Ringwood

Expected FG was 1062, I got 23L at 1072 into the fermenter! This will be a strong one for sure. I've just pitched the yeast and put her in the fridge, set for 18deg. Looking forward to this one. Even if it's not exact, it should be good.


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## hillbillybreweries (14/3/10)

just out of interest had a look in an Aussie book from 1999 by Laurie Strachan - The Complete Guide To Home Brewing in Australia as I remembered a Old Peculiar clone recipe in it. His recipe was for extract and for a 23L batch it quotes 30 g Molasses which is a bit less mentioned here. He had 3kg LME 250 Crystal 100g Roast Barley 500g raw sugar 30g NZ Hallertauer. If you're not familiar with this book he quotes ogs in a range in this case OG 1050 to 1060.
Same with IBUs 30-40 IBU. I remember when I started brewing making it and certainly got some character even from that small amount.


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## hazard (31/3/10)

hazard said:


> Finally got around to making an Old Peculier clone today. There are many different recipes around so I just sort of averaged them out to get this (for 23L)
> 5.2kg pale malt
> 320g med crystal
> 200g wheat malt
> ...



After 2 weeks in the fermenter, this is now down to 1016, so I reckon that it should be done. At this stage, i usually cold condition for a week to clear the beer before I bottle. However I got 2 questions if anyone has experience with old ale:
1. Given fairly high OG, I am worried about viability of yeast and whether there will be enough critters to carb up in the bottle. Would I be better to just leave at ambient for another week prior to bottling rather than chilling, so as not to drop out too much yeast - beer may not be as clear, but then again it can clear in the bottle while ageing.
2. Jamil says in Classic Styles that you can age in bulk or in the bottle. Does anyone have experience on this matter? and what is a normal ageing period for a beer like this?

Ta very much.


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## NRB (30/12/10)

How did you go? I've still got some in a keg! I ended up aging half of it on oak and overdid it, and tried to blend it out later to make it more subtle. It's mellowed with age, but damn, had it really been over 3.5 years since I brewed it?!

Must make another!


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## mwd (30/12/10)

Must be some kind of record three and half years. Cannot say I was that keen on Old Peculiar a little bit sweet much preferred Whitbread Gold Label Barley Wine.


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