# Kegmenter. Are they good to use?



## Danscraftbeer

Anyone use them and are they a good choice? It can fit in my temp control fridge were a conical would not.
I'm thinking of getting one because a batch of beers I've made taste like plastic. Still puzzled as to why but fear that my plastic fermenters have done too many miles perhaps. Plastic stains and retains smell etc. I feel that stainless or glass is really the only true cure of this but I don't want to use glass carboys.


----------



## MastersBrewery

Yes there are members here that use them, conversion kits are available from brewers hardware (Crusty uses one of these) and also kits from brewhardware(my fave as you can pressure ferment) both these are in the states. There is also the kegmenter from Keg king though I haven't read up on it. Google and the search engine here are your friend. There are quite a few threads on fermenting under pressure and way to much info to put in a single post. Research before you hand over the dollars, that way you know where your heading beforehand, both of the linked kits are top quality, one won't do pressure one will, but whether that is on the list of things you want to do, is up to you.


----------



## droid

hi

I bought two and do like them. There was some trouble sealing them, where they would leak around the hinge area of the tri-clamp but a mix of wetting the seal, tightening the clamp and holding the tongue in the right spot has ironed that out

great for conditioning and subsequently serving beer from but also handy for storing beer in long-term too


----------



## droid

50 odd ltrs of lager, been in the fridge since birth ~ glorious!


----------



## booargy

This is my newest version put together with parts I already had. 8"<2" triclover with side pot for the cone. Cooling coil to be run from a 160l chest freezer filled with water. In the process of cleaning the vessel and still have to make the racking arm and instrument fittings.





Edit im not good enough to get the seam weld sanitary, yet. So will just hit it with a map gas burner before use until I can fix it.


----------



## Mardoo

Wow, nice work. I really need to learn how to weld…


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Excellent. Thanks for the pics guys. I can pick up a keg king type in the short run. In future I may get some free kegs and get the welder out myself after seeing those pics. I like all the options of this. Got to read up some more.


----------



## Screwtop

Will these fit a Tookeys (Style) Keg???

Screwy


----------



## MastersBrewery

yeah Screwtop should be the same size flange on top once the spear and associated gear is removed.


----------



## Screwtop

MastersBrewery said:


> yeah Screwtop should be the same size flange on top once the spear and associated gear is removed.



Cheers


----------



## droid

I'm not sure what you guys are referring too but here's the top of a KegKing Kegmenter FYI


----------



## MastersBrewery

ok just so no confusion is cause I was talking about the ones I linked, the one in droids pic seems to have a 4" TC welded on their NICE!!

ED: droid can you get your hand in there to clean?


----------



## booargy

For an A type coupler The fitting you need is a 2" triclover ferrule or endcap. With a small pair of electronics side cutters the rib on one side can be cutting off the gasket easily.


----------



## droid

I think that's the idea but no, I can't quite get my arm in, stopping tight around widest part of the forearm I'm too scared to push it. But some people could, worth considering tho for sure. 

Could always get the mrs to do it I spose


----------



## MastersBrewery

this pic is from our inverted cousins, the fitting is from brewhardware and fits a standard 2" TC really like this as a set up. one day!


----------



## lickapop

I got some made with 6in triclamp. I love them. I use a spunding valve for pressure relief/adjustment whilst fermenting and serving. 

Probably the only downside is you can't throw them around like a corny. CO2 transfer only for me


----------



## MastersBrewery

lickapop said:


> image.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpeg
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpeg
> 
> 
> I got some made with 6in triclamp. I love them. I use a spunding valve for pressure relief/adjustment whilst fermenting and serving.
> 
> Probably the only downside is you can't throw them around like a corny. CO2 transfer only for me


where did you get the work done, it's always hard to find a place that'll do sanitary welds like those and how much was it if you remember?


----------



## lickapop

A local bloke in Townsville did it. 

I got 5 kegs done for $700 including getting the posts and thermowell welded
That obviously didn't include the fittings and keg. 

The Keg King version want around at the time or I probably would have considered it. 4in is pretty tight tho for my guns to fit in.


----------



## Mardoo

MastersBrewery said:


> where did you get the work done, it's always hard to find a place that'll do sanitary welds like those and how much was it if you remember?


Ask around any wineries in your area. They often know of someone who does sanitary welds. Not the Mom and Pop ones, but the slightly bigger ones.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Awesome. I just got one. :beerbang:

So the gist of what I've read mostly talks about lager brewed under pressure. What about everything else? Its not a big deal really. The option is to brew under pressure or to have a blow off tube into a bottle of solution is the same as any fermenter not pressurized. 
What about brewing warmer brews under pressure? not so good?


----------



## MastersBrewery

The whole pressure thing reduces esters thrown at higher temps (off flavours) this is for any yeast. Word of caution to high pressure and you'll crush your yeast . But ale @ [email protected] 26c should be clean as. D rest is important. 10 days grain to brain. As stated earlier google and forum search will serve you well can't link from the phone sorry.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

So to report and answer my own question. Are they good to use? You Betcha!! I cant believe how good this is. It does produce beer much faster like many would mention. The first beer I made was a hoppy Pale Ale between APA/IPA thing. Set the fridge for 18c like normal. It hissed away at 15psi for 4 days while I nudged up the temperature 1c per day after the 3rd day. To get a sample I just used a beerline disconnect with 80cm hose into a jug. Just click on and let some into the jug to let it decarbonate for a hydrometer test (and taste test wow) it seems ready!
On 7th day I set the fridge at 1c to chill for ~ 36hours. Best to chill before transfer. Maybe not necessary I'm not too sure. So the beer was around 5c for transfer. I know some just leave it in the keg and drink it off the yeast cake. I rather transfer off the yeast cake into 2 X 19lt kegs.






As simple as: Purge the receiving keg with co2 (as normal). Remove spunding valve from kegmenter and connecting co2 bottle set at 10psi to the gas post. Connecting jumper lead from beer post to beer post. Click on the spunding valve to the receiving keg gas post and set it to 7psi. The beer slowly and gently transfers from the kegmenter to the receiving keg. Now this is mostly why I chilled. Its to get a condensation line on the receiving keg just to indicate how much beer is in there otherwise I wouldn't know.




No risk of oxygenation. Fastest beer I've ever made. Very clean tasting beer even when its green. Save on Co2, and time, and steps of procedures. Just to have a Stainless Steel fermenter is good. I also did something I've never dared to do before and that is to rack my next brew onto the yeast cake. An IPA slowly dribbled onto the yeast cake and sealed and shaken. BANG! Practically instantly fermenting. So this second beer actually brewed faster than the first. It was at FG in 2 -3 days. Now its just got to wait and condition until the 19lt kegs are free again.
:beerbang:

Oh as for aerating the wort prior to fermenting. When I rack the chilled wort via silicon hose into the kegmenter with a sanitized chux rag to protect the opening I just let it dribble slowly from as high as you can so its splashing all the time into the kegmenter. Then seal and shake well for a few minutes (as I've always done). 40lt brews have at least 10lt headspace etc.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Ah. I forgot I have these polished stainless kegs that will show a condensation. They are OB kegs its what I started kegging with. As far as I have tried you cant get them anymore. Checked online as well cant find them. I don't know if there is any source? I like them.


----------



## Tahoose

The other option for extra head space is to run a gas out line from the kegmentor into the liquid post of a corny keg. And run your spunding valve on the corny.

This will store your co2 for later in the corny if you want to do that. 
Also this can work as a blow off tube if you want to collect some yeast.


----------



## lickapop

I use a coke bottle with a carb cap and a beer line splitter but the corny is a good idea too. I like it. 
The other option is whack the valve on after primary fermentation.


----------



## MastersBrewery

question for those with the KK jobie. does it have a thermowell?


----------



## Brewsta

Danscraftbeer, I'm guessing this a Keg King kegmenter? if so how do you find the quality? I've heard their kegs are made in China so curious on the construction, welds & machining work before parting with my dough. Also, how do you find cleaning it with the 4" opening? Apart from that they look like just what i need, thanks for your pics & informative post!


----------



## rude

I like the idea of this, have asked for a quote from a sanitary welder in Bibra Lake but no reply  
Anyone know of a welder in Perth who could do the job like Likapops job
Found 6" triclamp & ferrule on Evil bay for $80
40 litres would be heavy so would have to pitch & pour cube in ferment fridge in the garage
which would make me a bit nervous :unsure: its not the cleanest place bit windy
Spose I'de try the Danscraftbeer method using sanitary chuxs rag
Also would like to oxygenate for lagers whats the best way disposeable O2 with reg & just hose into
wort do the job


----------



## rude

Ok so have got 3 quotes, all around the $400 mark

so $400 + $80 for ticlamp ferrule & blank end

Then fittings, spunding valve, gauge, themowell pipe, gas & beer out posts plus prv

Not cheap in the end

Keg King $289 delivered but only 4" hole which would be hard to clean & I'm unsure of the quality

Wish I was rich or in Townsville as I think Likapop is selling 2 for $400 but no prv


----------



## lickapop

Yes definitely not cheap. I sold those 2 yesterday which was basically a giveaway for what they cost. I just don't like seeing gear sitting there unused. 
I think those keg king ones are great value. Sure they are 4in and no thermowell but in reality you don't really need to get your arm in there to clean. You get your Mrs or small child's arm in there to clean..or use a chemical and a brush on a stick. 

In regards to oxygenating, I use an inline airstone after the chiller when I pump from the kettle but I have also just popped the triclamp and run an airstone in from the top too. 
Both work fine.


----------



## rude

Do you use an oxygen canister & if so what type

Pricey all right but stuff it you only live once bit the bullet bought some
weld in posts , prv & will order triclamp, end cap & ferrule

Gunner save up for the job one bloke I talked to sounded like the full bottle on it
he has made stills before so gunner go with him

Bloody kids school fees killing my brewing by keeping me poor

Hope I make better beer with it :lol: never done a proper lager here comes a munich dunkel


----------



## Tahoose

I'm going to do a el cheapo ghetto version, have a spare keg at home and a coupler that does t get used very often.

Turn the keg upside down, cut the dip tube, cut a hole and install a corny keg lid in to the old "bottom". Also install a weldless gas post, this to be used for the prv. 

Additional cost above what I have will be $50. Being a new corny lid, and the weldless fitting.


----------



## rude

Sh#*t commited too early to the 6" triclamp jobby

When you do it Tahoose put up some pics great idea mate


----------



## Mardoo

I picked up a couple 50L Mytton Rodds yesterday to use as fermenters. I'd assume shortening the dip tube would be in order. Anyone have any suggestions as to how much space to leave at the bottom of the keg? I was thinking 6-8cm. Guessing it might be easier to forgo dry hopping and keg hop instead.


----------



## lickapop

I shortened the dip tube. 6-8cm from the bottom sounds about right. Put it around the same height as the tap on a 50l plastic fermenter


----------



## Mardoo

Nice one. Cheers. Do you do much dry hopping in your kegmenters?


----------



## siege

Mardoo said:


> Guessing it might be easier to forgo dry hopping and keg hop instead.


Im wondering about this too. As I'd like a completely closed system with sanke kegmenter and then by 19l sanke serving kegs but the issue is where to dry hop. I can't get a hop bag into the serving kegs as there is no lid. And I'd rather not keg hop with loose pellets and then have floaties in all my beers. 

If you added dry hops at the beginning of fermentation in a pressure fermenter would it work out? Or is enough pressure vented through the prv that you would still lose all the aroma?


----------



## lickapop

Currently I use a blichmann hop rocket because I like the added bonus of filtering most of the trub and its great for serving as well
But I do throw in loose pallets at various stages depending on what I am making. 
Never really had any dramas apart from a couple times when I had to vent the keg and clean out the liquid post. Most other times if flow is restricted when I rack off to secondary or serving keg, I give the liquid post a squirt with co2 and its all good.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I'm now set up with an O2 bottle. (without details its a price tag of ~ $350)
Ok details. $200 for the o2 bottle + $70 filled. $70 to swap and go. (swap is unknown but over a year at least or the rest of your life)
You get your $200 back for the bottle if you give it back. (doubtfull ha!) 

Fermentation procedure: (chilled wort)
Purge the kegmenter with bottled o2.
Carefully drain in chilled Wort. Pitch activated yeast as to calculations.
Seal. Crank in o2 to around 4psi. (Its a note I read somewhere) So not to rely on the air around you with all its unknowns for the oxygen for your yeast.
Shake and roll that fucker like usual. Sit in its home and take a sample. Set the reg to release pressure between ~ approximately variably 5 to 17 psi?
Those variables are all good as far as I know. For 4 - 5 days. Then raise the temp 1c a day for 2 days then close the pressure release.
The finishing pressure are variable. That's ok when your kegging all the way.

Enjoying this. B)


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Brewsta said:
 

> Danscraftbeer, I'm guessing this a Keg King kegmenter? if so how do you find the quality? I've heard their kegs are made in China so curious on the construction, welds & machining work before parting with my dough. Also, how do you find cleaning it with the 4" opening? Apart from that they look like just what i need, thanks for your pics & informative post!


Oops I missed this. It is the KK kegmenter. It looks all good to me. I cant really judge it negatively in any way but it is my first. Welds are very neat. Construction as strong as any keg. I cant actually get my arm inside. Or if I did get past my forearm I'd be worried about getting it back out again so a spunge washer mit on a stick type is the go to wash the lower half. Then just a mit for the upper half. I shortened the dip tube ~25mm. There is no thermometer. I may install one but not that fussed with a temp controlled fridge.
I like the fact you can literally boil water and heat sterilize it on the burner.


----------



## wobbly

Opps Meant to post this under the "Fermenting Under pressure" Topic so have repeated this post there


----------



## Hoffdegg

Anyone done any lagers in a pressure fermenter using lager yeast?
What is your procedure? Temps, times, pressure? Do you need to condition/lager the brew like you normally would with a lager or because it is under pressure you don't need to? Is it a lot quicker and the beer some out tasting clear? No sulphur (eggy smell/taste) in the beer?
I have a kegking pressure fermenter on order, can't wait to try it!


----------



## droid

I have 40 ltrs of marzen in one in the fridge now 
Currently fermenting out at 9degC with glad wrap and a lacky band over the opening
Once near terminal gravity eg for me FG was 1014 so at around 1016 I'll bump it to 16degC for around three days
Then reduce temp to 1 or 2 for as long as I can wait (2 weeks prolly haha) fit the in / out posts and once carbed, drink

In this case I'll have to transfer to 2x19ltr kegs tho so I can gets me the yeast, if it was staying In There I'd bend the dip tube a bit

...that may not help you tho.


----------



## Hoffdegg

Hi droid, 
That's very similar to my lager procedure, im just wondering if doing it in a pressure fermenter makes it go quicker and allow for higher fermenting temperatures to be used. 
There is lots saying how ales go that much quicker but can't get a straight answer on lagers


----------



## droid

ah ok


----------



## MastersBrewery

Under pressure temps can be higher and therefore ferment faster. The pressure reduces ester production. On the phone so can't link search pressure fermenting and all you need to know will be revealed.


----------



## Hoffdegg

Yeah I have read a bit about that, it sounds interesting. 
I just not sure what pressures and what temperatures and how long to do it for at what pressure and so forth particualary with lagers. As I am just starting lagers and they take so long!
Just need to know all the above on brewing lager in a pressure fermenter and worried about the sulphar that lager yeast typically excretes being forced into the beer under pressure, because an eggy taste in the beer - no thanks!


----------



## wobbly

Hoffdegg

As I indicated in the other thread in the machine I have when fermenting lagers start with the pressure relief valve set to vent at 1.5bar and the temperature set to 15C for 3 days and then raise to 18C for another three days and if you have reached terminal gravity (which you should have) then cold crash to 1C to drop the yest out of suspension. I then Clarify using Colloidal Silica 

Obviously when you first pitch the yeast the fermenter will be at atmospheric pressure and will build up to the 1.5 bar as the brew ferments

I should also point out that this is using dry yeast such as W34/70 or S23

Wobbly


----------



## Hoffdegg

Hey wobbly, 

I didn't realise you were using w34/70 or s23!

That's really good to know, I'll have to give it a try, except the release valve I have only goes up to 15 psi. 

Going up to 1.5 bar and then crash cooling it, that won't over carbonate it?


----------



## nosco

Any one tried or thought of ? Pretty sloppy cut but Im still wondering how well it would hold pressure.


----------



## Tahoose

nosco said:


> Any one tried or thought of ? Pretty sloppy cut but Im still wondering how well it would hold pressure.






Tahoose said:


> I'm going to do a el cheapo ghetto version, have a spare keg at home and a coupler that does t get used very often.
> 
> Turn the keg upside down, cut the dip tube, cut a hole and install a corny keg lid in to the old "bottom". Also install a weldless gas post, this to be used for the prv.
> 
> Additional cost above what I have will be $50. Being a new corny lid, and the weldless fitting.


This is what i was talking about here... The other thing I didn't mention is that the new corny lids have a built in Prv. Really need to get back on to this.


----------



## nosco

So a corny lid in the bottom, a ball valve with tri clover fittings in where the spear goes for yeast collection? I have access to a plasma cutter and someone who knows how to use it at work now. Ive got a spare corny lid too. Weld some legs on it....Just gotta figure out the best way to collect the beer.


----------



## Tahoose

Up date-

Bought one of these on the weekend. 

http://kegking.com.au/keg-couplers-and-keg-disconnects/19l-9l-kegs-keg-parts/carbonation-keg-lid-with-2-micron-diffusion-stone.html

New plan;

- Remove Spear and cut tube down to about 2 inches.
- Cut hole in "bottom" of keg to fit corny lid.
-use carbonation corny lid, which has the benefit of a gas post already installed, and the prv for safety reasons.
- use keg coupler in conjunction with spear (which now will be upside down), bonus of this is that you can buy ball lock attachments for the coupler, giving you liquid out and gas in for the bottom.

Any Questions please ask.


----------



## Tahoose

Ok, so here's the latest.

My hand has been forced, so change of plans.

I just could not get the spear out of the keg I'm using. I bought a keg opening tool as I have a couple of kegs of this type and it just wouldn't budge. All of the other ones did but I've decide to keep those as potential serving kegs.

So I'm now cutting the the coupler opening out and installing the corny lid at the top. I'm also going to put a weldless ball lock post lower down on the side to use sort of like a tap. This will sit just above the domed bottom, will measure with water before i put this in and allow for 2ltr's below the tap. This should be enough to drop out yeast,trub,hops ect.

One of the problems i have found in the past when fermenting in a keg is that, if you don't have the keg closed and have top pressure. Its a pain in the arse to take a hydrometer sample.

This way because the ball lock post(tap), is only a few inches from the bottom you can just use gravity as per normal. The other idea that I like about using a ball lock post is that it will make transfering to other kegs very simple.

The purpose of this vessel is to be multi functional. I plan to ferment, condition, carbonate and potentially serve from the same vessel. Once fully carbonated I am looking to chill it and move to my fridge/freezer in the brew shed. Doing 45 or so litres I can draw off a corny for the keezer, Fill 9ltr cornies for partys, growlers ect and maybe i'll put a tap into that fridge for a brew shed beer.

Cheers


----------



## Dae Tripper

Did you check out youtube for getting the speer out? Got to get pliers in there and everything. My first one was a pain as I didn't know about the retaining bit.


----------



## Tahoose

I have the proper tool but this keg was stuffed, have done it a few times now so I know what to do.

Progress pic


----------



## Mardoo

And what does the proper tool look like?


----------



## malt junkie

Tahoose said:


> I have the proper tool but this keg was stuffed, have done it a few times now so I know what to do.
> 
> Progress pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpeg


That lid has room for a second post.


----------



## Tahoose

malt junkie said:


> That lid has room for a second post.


No need for a second post, the liquid out post is situated lower down on the keg as I previously mentioned. Along with the pros of doing that.

Opening tool for D/S type kegs




Ball Lock Liquid Post Attached




Just leak tested it and also did a measurement on how much liquid is left below the post/tap. The result is just over 4 ltrs which is a little higher than I'd wish but to have it on the side I couldn't go any lower. 

My initial thought is that if i did it again i would install the post on the domed bottom towards the side hopefully leaving around 2ltrs.

Pitching 24litres of Simple Apple Cider to prove the theory.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Nice job. 
You could make a racking arm from that fitting with some pipe and o-rings


----------



## Crusty

Mardoo said:


> And what does the proper tool look like?


I got the Sanke valve / spear removal tool from Moorebeer but their sankes must be different to ours & when releasing pressure from a D-type keg, when fully screwed down, it still wasn't far enough down to allow removal of the cir clip.
I bit the bullet & got the Keg King A type spear removal tool instead & went with the A types which I find better to use anyhow.
I'm not using them for serving at the moment but I do ferment in one.


----------



## Tahoose

Dae Tripper said:


> Nice job.
> You could make a racking arm from that fitting with some pipe and o-rings



It's even easier than that.

Just need to get a corny keg dip tube, cut it to the right size and a slight bend and it's done.

It is literally a 10 minute job (which work include pouring a beer and admiring my own good work).


----------



## Coldspace

I'll second Dans opinion on these kegmenters so far..... Early days but I can see myself having some fun with these.

Got mine last week, with adjustable valve and disconnect, under Dancraftbeers advice, I shortened the dip tube 20 mm. Soaked in PBW, then pressure test all good.

I had brewed up 2 cubes of a Munich helles to test run this, grew up 3 x 3 ltr stepped up starters of 34/70 as I wanted to cold pitch. Chilled the cubes and decanted starters down to about 8 over night.

Sat the kegmenter into chesty, siphoned the 43 odd litres of 1048 wort into the keg after a quick sanitise of starsan.

Bubbled O2 in there for 2 mins at 2.5 ltrs a minute. Pitched the cold starters which were decanted down to approx 1 ltr total thick slurry mix. 

Sealed up. Set the valve mid way.

This was fri night late, attached temp prob under insulation on side of kegmenter . It read about 9.1 after stable.

Set temp to 12 degrees , Saturday past.... Sunday morning pressure was slowly creeping up, Sunday night adjust valve to bleed off at 12 psi approx, and was slightly hissing away as well bleeding the co2 out.

Adjusted temp to 13 as I wanted to be in the middle of the 34/70 sweet spot.

Monday, hissing away nice, pressure still approx 12 psi,

Tonight , I just wanted to test it, easy as , clicked on my pluto gun, purged about 150 ml quickly into a jug,

It's cloudy and fizzy, tasted yummy , clean as considering it's only really 3 days into ferment after about 36 hrs of lag due to the cold pitch.

Tested gravity after it warmed upto 20 degrees and as much co2 as I could disperse out, and it's down to 1015 already.

Awesome.....

Tomorrow , raise temp to 14, next day to 15 and then 16 end of week. and like Dan informed me should be done by then, close valve and let it pressurise to approx 23 psi. Leave for a day or 2 and then cc it over a couple of days... Nice and gentle.

Then pressure transfer into my 2 cornies and lager for a couple of weeks.

I am already impressed with this thing and only just got it.

Can see myself getting another one, and around we go again. Going to mainly use it for lagers, and use my standard stainless fermenters for my hoppy ales and dry hopped ones...

Thanks Dancraftbeers for leading the way..

Yummo...


----------



## Danscraftbeer

That's cool Coldspace. Same here I found instant basic improvements of my beer.
For bashful clarity I didn't actually lead the way I was just a follower of the way and you picked up on my thread ha.
This is a kegging (Draught Beer) style of brewing. 
40lt home micro style of some commercial systems is the way I see it and it works so good. No exposures. Inject or draw from etc.
I got a 23lt Cornie style Keg to ferment half brews (20lt) like Stouts, Ciders etc, as well. 
I can fit both the 50lt Kegementer with the 23lt kegmenter in my temp control fridge now. So, with time managed better I can make a 40lt brew and a 20lt brew on the same day etc.
gotta love brewing, and home cooking too, it seems to go hand in hand.


----------



## Coldspace

Danscraftbeer said:


> That's cool Coldspace. Same here I found instant basic improvements of my beer.
> For bashful clarity I didn't actually lead the way I was just a follower of the way and you picked up on my thread ha.
> This is a kegging (Draught Beer) style of brewing.
> 40lt home micro style of some commercial systems is the way I see it and it works so good. No exposures. Inject or draw from etc.
> I got a 23lt Cornie style Keg to ferment half brews (20lt) like Stouts, Ciders etc, as well.
> I can fit both the 50lt Kegementer with the 23lt kegmenter in my temp control fridge now. So, with time managed better I can make a 40lt brew and a 20lt brew on the same day etc.
> gotta love brewing, and home cooking too, it seems to go hand in hand.


Yeah... But you did put up some handy hints like transfer etc in this thread.

These forums are where most of us learn our craft.... No one in this world is born with the info... But some people think they do ,lol, unfortunately .

Gotta love a stainless fermenter, now to look out for a 23 ltr one


----------



## pcqypcqy

I like it. I picked mine up on Friday last week, hoping to get something put in it on Sunday or next week.


----------



## mckenry

Anyone using a kegmenter to carbonate with an air stone?
Basically, does the underside of the lid have a barb or other fitting that a line of tubing with an airstone can be attached to?
Same idea as the carb lids some retailers sell here, but for the kegmenter, not the corny.


----------



## Dae Tripper

That would kinda defeat the purpose of it as it carbonates itself as part of the brewing under pressure method. Someone else may be able to tell you about the underside of the lid.


----------



## Zorco

Kinda, the kegmenter can be used as a keg. Force carbing beer from your fermenter.

I'm getting interested in this now........ I have my soda stream adapter, I have my speigel glasses, I have my yeast coming, I have way too much grain.......Sights set on new brewing item


----------



## rude

Just pitched a Kolsch into my homemade kegmenter same as above but 6'" hole & thermowell tube
to put stc probe down the middle

Set temp at 20c normally do my Kolsch at 16c

Will try & set presure to 15 psi or a touch lower

This is my first try at it so fingers crossed for a nice xmas Kolsch


----------



## mckenry

Dae Tripper said:


> That would kinda defeat the purpose of it as it carbonates itself as part of the brewing under pressure method. Someone else may be able to tell you about the underside of the lid.


It's not for fermented beer. It's for nitro coffee.


----------



## Mr B

Can you actually fit your arm into the kegmenter for cleaning? I cant get mine in a corny. Asked the lovely wife to do a little scrub in an old one the other day, the favour would wear thin pretty quick.......


----------



## Coldspace

Zorco said:


> Kinda, the kegmenter can be used as a keg. Force carbing beer from your fermenter.
> 
> I'm getting interested in this now........ I have my soda stream adapter, I have my speigel glasses, I have my yeast coming, I have way too much grain.......Sights set on new brewing item


Get one , get one, get one, get 2 lol
I love mine, I'm going to get another, one for lagers, one for my ales.

Like danscraftbeer beer, my latest helles, I put 43 ltrs of wort into it from a double batch from grainfather . O2, pitched heaps of 34/70 at 8 degrees, sealed up. Valve on. Set for approx 12 psi, temp set to 12. 2 days later hissing nicely, purged sample with pluto gun into jug, at day 5. Grav from 1048 to 1015. Tasted crisp and clean. Adjusted temp upto 17 for next 5 days. Shut valve at day 7. Pressure went to 22 psi. Day 10 test grav, at 1008 tasted yummy , clear as in my hydrometer, a lot clearer than out of my usual fermenters at same time.

Cold crash yesterday. 10 days and I prob went a couple of days longer to make sure as I'm still learning this thing. Going to cc it for 7 days then pressure transfer into 2 cornies. 

So far, extremely happy with this item , toy lol.....


----------



## rude

Thats why I got a welder to do the 6" joby kegmenter for cleaning

Maybe you could do the same for youre wife it would make it a lot easier for her


----------



## Mr B

Mmmmm so many 'needs'.

They are certainly interesting, and quite a cost effective stainless fermenter, with the added bonus of pressure ferments. I'd ideally want a little more volume, 60l would be good, or two 30l ones.....

Hmmmm searching thinking searching thinking

Cheers


----------



## Coldspace

Yeah, great size for my current set up. Double batch grain father, gives me 2 x 15 lts cubes at about 1063. I chilled them to 5 degrees, siphoned into kegmenter. Added 12 ltrs of water , down to 1048 ish. This brought the temp upto 8-9 degrees. Perfect for my cold big pitch of yeast. Sealed up, adjusted to 12 and away I went. With the shortened dip tube, 20 mm so when transfer no sediment. Should fill my 2 x 19 ltr cornies just right.

These were designed for double batch grainfather brews lol....

Like danscraftbeer , I'm super happy so far, stainless, pressure, right size, fits into my chesty 300 ltr fermentation fridge perfectly. And reasonable price for grab and go set up.

The best thing is, I use my spunding pressure release valve to fill my little mini kegs under pressure transfer as well. No mess , no exposure and too easy. 

Love it when my toys play nice together .....


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I wish list for some of those mini kegs if they come around again.
Than again any PET bottle is compatible for Draught Beer done this way too.
Its the way I harvest yeast too, oh I think I mentioned that already :unsure:


----------



## zeggie

Coldspace said:


> Shut valve at day 7. Pressure went to 22 psi.


Which spunding valve do you use?


----------



## Zorco

Coldspace said:


> Yeah, great size for my current set up. Double batch grain father, gives me 2 x 15 lts cubes at about 1063. I chilled them to 5 degrees, siphoned into kegmenter. Added 12 ltrs of water , down to 1048 ish. This brought the temp upto 8-9 degrees. Perfect for my cold big pitch of yeast. Sealed up, adjusted to 12 and away I went. With the shortened dip tube, 20 mm so when transfer no sediment. Should fill my 2 x 19 ltr cornies just right.
> 
> These were designed for double batch grainfather brews lol....
> 
> Like danscraftbeer , I'm super happy so far, stainless, pressure, right size, fits into my chesty 300 ltr fermentation fridge perfectly. And reasonable price for grab and go set up.
> 
> The best thing is, I use my spunding pressure release valve to fill my little mini kegs under pressure transfer as well. No mess , no exposure and too easy.
> 
> Love it when my toys play nice together .....



ALRIGHT ALRIGHT......stop it already..... gunna buy one....sheeeeeeshhhh! You had me at hello


----------



## pcqypcqy

I'm seeing a lot of benefits for lighter beers, especially lagers.

I need to put down some of my porter for my own use and for the upcoming qld case swap, and I'm thinking of doing a 40 L batch in the kegmenter to try it out, mainly because it's the only fermenter I have that's big enough to do that much beer at once, and also because it's been sitting there unused for a few weeks and needs some beer in it.

I guess if I set the spunding valve to a low pressure, it would be similar to a normal fermenter with an airlock.

40 litres of syrupy porter going to be not enough headspace in this? Is a krausen explosion going to stuff up the spunding valve?


----------



## malt junkie

Krausen shouldn't be an issue at 10psi or higher.


----------



## Zorco

Hey kegmenter users. (Plus Lyrebird Cycles and MHB if you're around)

If I used a kegmenter for fermenting, would it be advantageous to pressurise the headspace with O2?

Would the O2 dissolve into solution and be more available to the yeast?

Being pressurised O2, would I effectively be delivering quite a large dose of O2 with zero wastage?


Zorco.


----------



## Tahoose

Still have plenty of 30ltr kegs available in Melbourne if people are interest.

$75 per unit.


----------



## Tahoose

[quote name="pcqypcqy" post="1415525" timestamp="1478644065

40 litres of syrupy porter going to be not enough headspace in this? Is a krausen explosion going to stuff up the spunding valve?[/quote]

If in doubt, make up a beer line with a gas and a liquid disconect. Run the gas out of the kegmentor and hook up to the liquid post of a cornie keg.

Then connect your spunding valve to the cornie. This will give you the extra "headspace"


----------



## zeggie

Any benefit just buying the cheaper 50l keg from kegking and coupler for fermenting? Seems cheaper


----------



## Tahoose

Benefit, no not really, does it work,yes. Is it essentially the same thing. Yes. 

Couple of downsides - the standard commercial keg is harder to clean. 

Doing the old one keg higher than the other closed transfer doesn't really work unless you flip the commercial Keg upside down and feed the gas up the dip tube and draw beer out of the gas disconnect.

I tend to do a 5:1 of sodium perc and sodium metasilicate. A good cup of powder, fill the keg half way with 70c water screw the spear back in. Sit for 30mins, flip upside down. Rinse with water (cold), rinse with water and citric acid. Rinse with water again. Starsan and use. Might seem over the top but it works well.


----------



## rude

Quick question to the pressure fermenters

How long before the gauge starts to read KK type Kolcsh @ 20c

Turned the valve shut then just backed off a bit 

Its been about 30 hours since pitch can smell the ferment but no pressure yet ???


----------



## mckenry

rude said:


> Quick question to the pressure fermenters
> 
> How long before the gauge starts to read KK type Kolcsh @ 20c
> 
> Turned the valve shut then just backed off a bit
> 
> Its been about 30 hours since pitch can smell the ferment but no pressure yet ???


Leave it fully shut til some pressure builds up.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Just make sure the needle hasn't aready swung around to the bump stop and looks like zero. 
I made a big IPA mess doing this and my gauge always reads 2psi now.


----------



## neal32

malt junkie said:


> Krausen shouldn't be an issue at 10psi or higher.


That's false. I thought the same thing so didn't connect a keg with a spunding valve on my latest beer, a dopplebock pitched onto a yeast cake. One day in there was krausen coming out the spunding valve. I cleaned it up and the valve is fine but the lesson was learned. That was also at 15psi.

I think best practise to have a vessel (keg or filter housing) and connect the spunding valve to that


----------



## neal32

Zorco said:


> Hey kegmenter users. (Plus Lyrebird Cycles and MHB if you're around)
> 
> If I used a kegmenter for fermenting, would it be advantageous to pressurise the headspace with O2?
> 
> Would the O2 dissolve into solution and be more available to the yeast?
> 
> Being pressurised O2, would I effectively be delivering quite a large dose of O2 with zero wastage?
> 
> 
> Zorco.


Where would the wastage be if you bubbled it in through the dip tube? There are a plethora of people that do it that way.

I just do it with my o2 wand and the benzomatic bottle. As long as you're oxygenating well and accurately, I wouldn't sweat the details.


----------



## rude

neal32 said:


> Where would the wastage be if you bubbled it in through the dip tube? There are a plethora of people that do it that way.
> 
> I just do it with my o2 wand and the benzomatic bottle. As long as you're oxygenating well and accurately, I wouldn't sweat the details.


Im definately no expert but o2 ing through a diffusion stone is supposed to be the best 0.5 or 2 micron

Someone on the threads here was o2 ing into the headspace then shaking but it was suggested that shaking would actualy shake it out of solution

A dip tube wouldnt be as efficient I would think ????


----------



## rude

mckenry said:


> Leave it fully shut til some pressure builds up.


Ok have shut it off but you would think I would have pressure by now 48 hours

Only put in 23 L @ 20c 

Needle hasnt gone all the way around

Wish I had pressure tested first

20c Kolcsh not under pressure will be a bit fruity :unsure:


----------



## mckenry

Sounds strange. You should be fermenting by 48 hours. It's now a few days later. Did it go?


----------



## pcqypcqy

First spin with the new wheels. 40 litres of porter. Blow off into a corny adopted as per advice. Pitched last night, was holding 5 psi this morning. 

Luckily I orderded a threaded pin lock disconnect as well as a ball lock, came in handy for this. I was going to use the pin lock one to measure gas pressures to try and quantify force carbing times/pressures that were discussed in this thread here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/92668-how-long-to-force-carb-the-calculator/


----------



## mstrelan

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but was there an outcome on how to do dry hop additions in a kegmenter? Do you have to release the pressure to open, add the hops, then reapply pressure?


----------



## pcqypcqy

mstrelan said:


> Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread, but was there an outcome on how to do dry hop additions in a kegmenter? Do you have to release the pressure to open, add the hops, then reapply pressure?


Haven't tried it yet, but I would have thought that this would be the way to do it. The CO2 will mostly stay in solution for the time it takes to throw in dry hops. As you say, re apply gas pressure out of a CO2 cylinder immediately if you were really worried about it, or if it was still fermenting let it re-pressurise.


----------



## Tahoose

If it was still fermenting just allow it to re-pressurise if not chuck a couple of tablespoons of dextrose or sugar in and set your spunding valve the CO2 has a higher density and then the new CO2 that is created will blow off the oxygen.

In other news I'm not so happy with my current lager effort. I know its fermenting but doesn't seem to be knocking any point of the OG, i think the original pressure might have been too high.

Backing off the pressure now and letting the temp free rise a couple of degrees. Using s-189 and have been happy with it at higher temps before so not too stressed about that side of things.


----------



## Coldspace

I haven't tried dry hopping in mine as I'm doing a helles in it. But I did open it up at finish to add in some finnings. I released pressure , open it up, most of the co2 would stay in it, poured finnings in, closed straight up. Pressurised and purged it with my bottle back to 18 psi. Rocked it a little after purge to distribute the finnings.

Then cc it from 12 degrees down to 0.

5 days in took a sample with the pluto gun, tastes awesome, not enough carb but close to 80%, still slightly hazy! but this weekend! ill pressure transfer to my to purged and sealed cornies. Then lager in my keezer for a few weeks to clear up completely .

But the pot I had yesterday was simply awesome. I'm sold. Can't wait to get another lager in next week.

Dry hopping, just throw in with a bag, seals up same principle I would say.


----------



## rude

mckenry said:


> Sounds strange. You should be fermenting by 48 hours. It's now a few days later. Did it go


I must have a leak

Under the pump here should have pressure tested before I tried

The ferment is definately happening as I can smell it & 7 days tomorrow

Problem is fermented @ 20c not under pressure fruity esters anyone

oh well next time live & learn


----------



## Chridech

What's the recommendation on shortening the dip-tube to minimise pushing out trub when pressure transferring from Kegmenter to Corny? Don't want to lose too much beer but prefer minimal trub transferred. After my first ferment in the new Kegmenter yesterday I pushed the beer out (a Bo Pils). First to 4 PET bottles (as I new I put 25L of wort into the Kegmenter) and then to the 19L Corny. Unfortunately I over-pressurised the first PET and stirred up all the shite with back pressure. The remainder of the transfer was cloudy. Not sure if this was due to stirring up the trub or would have happened anyway because I hadn't shortened the dip-tube.


----------



## Coldspace

I've shortened mine 20 mm. Seems good.but will try my first batch this weekend . May need another 5 mm, but a guy at keg king who uses 4 of these recons 15 mm. I did 20

I'll be running my lagers through my filter housing as I already have one. Under pressure 

Cheers


----------



## pcqypcqy

I did 20mm or so. Will adjust later if need be.

I'm having troubles getting the spunding valve quite right, it's not as set-and-forget as I'd like. Got home yesterday to find it zero, but realised it had spun all the way around. Backed it right off, let the gas out of the blow-off corny, then saw the krausen shoot through for a while. Checked it a few times before bed last night and each time I thought I had it stabilised, came back to find that the pressure was way over/under where I wanted it to be.

Just a learning thing I guess, unless someone has some tips.


----------



## zeggie

I did the exact same thing. Brewed a beer yesterday and transferred to the kegmenter. Checked it today 24 hours later and saw 0 psi...then noticed it had spun all the way around...released a looooot of pressure to get it back to 15psi. Hopefully hasn't affected the beer.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Wow this thread got away from me and had to catch up. I've had pretty much all the experiences mentioned (assumed faults etc).
but its still the best beer and best method I can advocate.

eg:

O2:
I've got the air stone option but I don't use it. Its not necessary and its very fiddly and you have to be vigilant about the hygene of it all. Instead, I charge the kegmenter with ~ 4 to 10 psi O2. Disconnect the O2 and roll shake the kegmenter. A few minutes. Resist to release that pressure, keep it in there as much as you can.
All my ferments are fast to explosive potential. Ales FG in 4 days, Lagers 7 days. Temp controlled at the lower yeast temp range.

Head space: Some beers have big/huge Krausens. Like syrupy ports, stouts. They got me by surprize. Blow through the KK spunding valve a few times now. (note: the gauges haven't been affected,yet! but they cost $8 to replace. The rest of the arm is cleanable forever basically)
Meanwhile during blow through I Quickly replace with a blow off tube into a jar or flask of water (old school way). Its a gas disconnect with a length of flexi 4mm air hose.
Its a funny sight and sound to see. Pressurized Krausen through a 4mm hose into a half filled 3lt flask of water. Be ready to replace that water at first because it could breach that 3lt flask, ha. This is also a time to consider harvesting high Krausen yeast. But no. I only harvest from lighter beers. So far!
1 to 2 days feral ferment stage it slows and then you can click on the spunding valve to finish the ferment under pressure for natural carbonation. 
To naturally carbonate is to aim at your beer finishing at around 21 psi at its finish ferment temperature. If its lower that's ok because your kegging anyway. If its higher than 21 psi then its over carbonated. Unless your making some freaky high carbonated thing.

Dry Hopping with pressure ferment: Because I don't like exposing a ferment and throwing something in. Especially because pressure fermented beer is also carbonated so you dip in a sack of hops and you get an eruption of beer froth that will spill and make a mess and I think this scenario also invites off flavours some way or another.

So my only method to dry hop is in a weighted hop sock filled with hop flowers (not pellets because they're too small particles etc) 
placed into the serving keg before you fill it with your pre chilled beer. All done slowly under pressure there is no frothing. I leave the hops in their until finished. All the beer gets drawn through the hops etc.

In short, with all these pressure fluctuations I would be hard convinced there is any negative affects. All the hardware is better than my older ways with plastic fermenters etc. The beer is always better than my old ways. Many labour some steps seem to be avoided.

$0.02 I tried to keep it short! -_-


----------



## malt junkie

Danscraftbeer said:


> $0.02 I tried to keep it short! -_-


Don't! The more info the better. These methods are becoming more popular as is the refinement and availability of equipment aimed at these methods.


----------



## zeggie

Ok what's the trick to get the Kk spunding valve at 15psi. Seems like I need to adjust it every hour or so


----------



## rude

Danscraftbeer said:


> Wow this thread got away from me and had to catch up. I've had pretty much all the experiences mentioned (assumed faults etc).
> but its still the best beer and best method I can advocate.
> 
> eg:
> 
> O2:
> I've got the air stone option but I don't use it. Its not necessary and its very fiddly and you have to be vigilant about the hygene of it all. Instead, I charge the kegmenter with ~ 4 to 10 psi O2. Disconnect the O2 and roll shake the kegmenter. A few minutes. Resist to release that pressure, keep it in there as much as you can.
> All my ferments are fast to explosive potential. Ales FG in 4 days, Lagers 7 days. Temp controlled at the lower yeast temp range.
> 
> Head space: Some beers have big/huge Krausens. Like syrupy ports, stouts. They got me by surprize. Blow through the KK spunding valve a few times now. (note: the gauges haven't been affected,yet! but they cost $8 to replace. The rest of the arm is cleanable forever basically)
> Meanwhile during blow through I Quickly replace with a blow off tube into a jar or flask of water (old school way). Its a gas disconnect with a length of flexi 4mm air hose.
> Its a funny sight and sound to see. Pressurized Krausen through a 4mm hose into a half filled 3lt flask of water. Be ready to replace that water at first because it could breach that 3lt flask, ha. This is also a time to consider harvesting high Krausen yeast. But no. I only harvest from lighter beers. So far!
> 1 to 2 days feral ferment stage it slows and then you can click on the spunding valve to finish the ferment under pressure for natural carbonation.
> To naturally carbonate is to aim at your beer finishing at around 21 psi at its finish ferment temperature. If its lower that's ok because your kegging anyway. If its higher than 21 psi then its over carbonated. Unless your making some freaky high carbonated thing.
> 
> Dry Hopping with pressure ferment: Because I don't like exposing a ferment and throwing something in. Especially because pressure fermented beer is also carbonated so you dip in a sack of hops and you get an eruption of beer froth that will spill and make a mess and I think this scenario also invites off flavours some way or another.
> 
> So my only method to dry hop is in a weighted hop sock filled with hop flowers (not pellets because they're too small particles etc)
> placed into the serving keg before you fill it with your pre chilled beer. All done slowly under pressure there is no frothing. I leave the hops in their until finished. All the beer gets drawn through the hops etc.
> 
> In short, with all these pressure fluctuations I would be hard convinced there is any negative affects. All the hardware is better than my older ways with plastic fermenters etc. The beer is always better than my old ways. Many labour some steps seem to be avoided.
> 
> $0.02 I tried to keep it short! -_-


So the biggest thing I got from you're post was same temp as normal but still finishes early 

Temp controlled at the lower yeast temp range

Just did a kolsch thought pressure ferment was all about higher temps for speed but still clean

Will try this once I make my kegmenter pressurised & my 20 c fruity ester Kolsch finishes :unsure:

Would like to go the digital solenoid (Trevgale ) in a corny keg option for pressure control but $150 was streaching me a bit for now

We are blessed with the brewing gear available these days cheers all





Thanks for you're feed back


----------



## Coldspace

I click mine on after 18 hrs of pitch . I've only used mine once so far. With O2 injected chilled helles pitched at 9 degrees allowed to rise upto 11-12 over first 24 hrs.

Clicked on at 18 hrs next day it was at 15 psi, slowly wound it out, you have to wind it out a very little increments, till you hear the slight hiss, I put my ear next to valve to hear it , if it was an ale probably would hiss more.
Check it 1 hr or 2 later and slight adjustment till it was stable at about 12 psi is where I ran mine at.

Also, wet the silicone seal when placing lid on to help it settle in. And after hand tight the tri clove lid, get a screw driver into the turn bit and crank it up about a few more turns till tight as a nuns nasty...

Obliviously don't go too rank but you do need to tightened it up, otherwise the pressure will seep out instead of through the valve.

Danscraftbeer has covered lots, I've just started but happy so far...


----------



## Chridech

Information from an American blog on a homebrewers experience with fermenting under pressure and dry hopping. A lot of information to digest. Interested to hear AHB boffins comments, especially on his conclusions about using pressure fermentation techniques to target the beer characteristics you want and avoid those you don't. Too many variables uncontrolled to make firm conclusions I think.

http://scottjanish.com/fermenting-dry-hopping-pressure/


----------



## malt junkie

rude said:


> So the biggest thing I got from you're post was same temp as normal but still finishes early
> 
> Temp controlled at the lower yeast temp range
> 
> Just did a kolsch thought pressure ferment was all about higher temps for speed but still clean
> 
> Will try this once I make my kegmenter pressurised & my 20 c fruity ester Kolsch finishes :unsure:
> 
> Would like to go the digital solenoid (Trevgale ) in a corny keg option for pressure control but $150 was streaching me a bit for now
> 
> We are blessed with the brewing gear available these days cheers all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for you're feed back


I like the idea of digital control, but initially some trial and error would be needed to sort the size of the outlet. That is to say smoothing the opening and closing of the valve by using a jet or other small hole( 1mm has previously been quoted) to allow co2 to escape, venting a 1/4 fitting would be quite abrupt and you wouldn't be very accurate.


----------



## 5150

I don't have a kegmenter, so this is purely an idea for dry hoping. (This is now going to be my next purchase  )

Would it be possible to make a hoptea with your dry hops addition, pour it into a pet bottle, purge it of oxygen and charge it with co2 up to say 20+ psi and then transfer it into the kegmenter to the beer out post. 

Just a thought.


----------



## jimmyjack

Ok Just bought one of these dudes from Keg King. Also have release valve that goes up to 15 PSI. Few questions. This is my understanding thus far and please correct me if I am wrong

1. Initial ferment pressure should be 8-12 PSI lasting around 3 days. What gravity/Pressure should I close the valve down to carbonate?
2. Can I ferment 20 L in the 50 L Kegmenter without pressure issues?


----------



## pcqypcqy

jimmyjack said:


> Ok Just bought one of these dudes from Keg King. Also have release valve that goes up to 15 PSI. Few questions. This is my understanding thus far and please correct me if I am wrong
> 
> 1. Initial ferment pressure should be 8-12 PSI lasting around 3 days. What gravity/Pressure should I close the valve down to carbonate?
> 2. Can I ferment 20 L in the 50 L Kegmenter without pressure issues?


1. Keep in mind that your ferment temp is warmer than your serving temp, so you need a higher pressure at the warm temp to get the same level of carbonation than you would at a lower temp. Looking at the charts I don't think you'll be able to have a fully carbonated beer straight away. i.e. at 18 degrees and 15 psi (which is the maximum mark on the gauge), you'd only get 1.7 volumes. 

2. Not sure what you mean by pressure issues, but I can't imagine the krausen from a 20 litre brew would hit the top, unless you're doing a barleywine or RIS or something. I would have thought 20 litres of fermenting beer would produce enough gas to carbonate itself with that kind of headspace.


----------



## pcqypcqy

zeggie said:


> Ok what's the trick to get the Kk spunding valve at 15psi. Seems like I need to adjust it every hour or so





Coldspace said:


> I click mine on after 18 hrs of pitch . I've only used mine once so far. With O2 injected chilled helles pitched at 9 degrees allowed to rise upto 11-12 over first 24 hrs.
> 
> Clicked on at 18 hrs next day it was at 15 psi, slowly wound it out, you have to wind it out a very little increments, till you hear the slight hiss, I put my ear next to valve to hear it , if it was an ale probably would hiss more.
> Check it 1 hr or 2 later and slight adjustment till it was stable at about 12 psi is where I ran mine at.
> 
> Also, wet the silicone seal when placing lid on to help it settle in. And after hand tight the tri clove lid, get a screw driver into the turn bit and crank it up about a few more turns till tight as a nuns nasty...
> 
> Obliviously don't go too rank but you do need to tightened it up, otherwise the pressure will seep out instead of through the valve.
> 
> Danscraftbeer has covered lots, I've just started but happy so far...


I'm finding that even if I do that, you have to unwind a long way to get the gas to start leaking, which if you left it like that would drop your pressure much more than you were hoping for.

This is my first use so I'm sure it'll loosen up with time, but it seems to be sticking a little bit so it needs large adjustments of the screw to start releasing pressure. 

I'm slowly working it out, set it to 12ish last night and it was only up to 15 over night, so not as bad as previously.


----------



## nosco

I got my self a 30lt keg (thanks Tahoose ) and i already have a spare keg lid and a ball valve. So im looking to go stainless for under $100. The 30lt has a threaded post wich means i can either get a threaded fitting or tri clover. I ordered both from Alibaba so i can try both. The keg lid doesnt have a prv though so im not sure if that will matter.

Ill post when its finished but dont hold your breath.


----------



## zeggie

Do Kegking still do 10% for cash if you pickup? Been a while. I might buy another


----------



## Zorco

So...

I did this brewing event at work where 4 teams designed their beers by tasting varieties of grains, smelling lots of hops and chose ABV and country of origin. They waited a few weeks, got a case each and they loved it.


A lot it seemed.... Yesterday they did a mini thank you presentation and in the card was $150 of vouchers - plus a tiny hit in the kid's inheritance and I'm there. I pick up my first kegmenter today.

Thank you wild and crazy internet forum for your motivational juju


----------



## pcqypcqy

Wife: "Why did you spend $300 on another keg for brewing"
Me: "because the internet told me to"
Wife: "Fair enough, carry on."


----------



## Zorco

Me: "But don't worry, this is the last piece of brewing hardware I'll need."


----------



## Coldspace

Yep, great to use.

Filled my 2 cornies last night with my munich helles. Normally wouldn't bother with filtering lately but thought I'd give it a run with the kegmenter.
44 ltrs approx in keg, sitting at approx 8 psi and 0 degrees past week. Purged and pressurised sanitised cornies to 10 psi.

Purged and sanitised my filter housing and pressurised it to 10 psi.

Click gas onto kegmenter, crank pressure upto 15 psi. Click on filter in side to kegmenter. Pressed button on top and filled it slowly to top. Then clicked the filter out line onto pressurised corny. This started filtering. Clicked my spunding valve onto corny and set to 9-10 psi. Then watched the condensation line creep up to the top.
When full, clicked everything onto next corny. Did same.

This is where the mini kegs come in handy , I filled 2 cornies,to brim. At least 19 ltrs in them.
Still had precious helles left. Clicked on a 5 ltr mini, about 3 ltrs came put of kegmenter then it started pushing gas, I then let it drain the last of the filter housing into the mini, perfect approx 4.5 ltrs in.

Thought, let's try this beer, poured a schooner, crystal clear, crisp as, 80% carbonated and ready to guzzle.

Put all kegs onto 30 psi for 7 hrs. Perfect carbonation today.

Can see myself using a little more gas filtering like I did years back before I got lazy, but for a awesome helles it works a treat plus you save on carbonation gas anyway as it's already 80% there.

These are good things.

The beer before the filter was like 90% clear anyway, so you don't have to filter, 1 week of cc is perfect after I finned it earlier in the week.
I just wanted to try it as I had the gear and to just polish it up a little .

One word of advice if filtering or pressure transfer into cornies. Make sure you put gas onto the pressurised kegmenter at approx 5 psi higher than the receiving vessels, otherwise when you click on, the back pressure will shoot down the stem of kegmenter and blast the yeast up , undoing you hard work of 1 week of cc.lol.

Cheers


----------



## Mr B

Thats a point on saving carb gas, I had discounted this option, hmm......


----------



## Zorco

Porn 

O2 pressurised to 200kPa. Shook her just like I was rush carbonating a keg of beer - 30 seconds approx.

23mm off the bottom of the dip tube. 1054 APA double batch. US05

Pick up valve this morning.


----------



## Chridech

Kegmenter newbie screw-up, again. Dry hopping last night. Accidentally knocked the silicone seal for the lid into the brew. Couldn't fish it out again. Going to have to find a replacement seal somewhere otherwise I'll be siphoning this one out, which kinda defeats the purpose. Bugger!


----------



## Coldspace

Chridech said:


> Kegmenter newbie screw-up, again. Dry hopping last night. Accidentally knocked the silicone seal for the lid into the brew. Couldn't fish it out again. Going to have to find a replacement seal somewhere otherwise I'll be siphoning this one out, which kinda defeats the purpose. Bugger!


This was a reason I thought I better buy a spare seal.

Keg king sell them, I bought a spare for I think $4.95 just in case I drop mine in or loose it sometime.

Bugger....

Just run with this batch as if a normal stainless fermenter now.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Results of the first spin. Ran my porter at 18 as I did previously with un-pressurised versions, transferred yesterday after 7 days into 2 corny's. One of these is destined to be transferred to PET bottles for the SEQld Case swap.

No major issues, though I found it difficult to detect exactly how full each corny was. I could feel how cold it was, but after a while the cold level was creeping ahead of the fill level, so it was difficult to follow. Not a real humid day so no condensation to observe.

Had more clean beer coming out of the keg than I realised, so ended up blowing beer out of the spunding valve on the second corny. Gave me an excuse to whack the pluto on and have a taste. It's not quite the same as the beer that won me the QABC, but it's pretty close. Pretty happy with the carbonation level that came straight out of the keg, not quite 2 volumes is my estimate which is not far off for a porter. Spunding valve ended up finishing around 20 psi by the end before I crash chilled it. Other styles would require a bit of time on gas before serving.


----------



## Mardoo

Easiest way to fill blind is to use a scale. Weigh the corny, zero the scale, weigh the beer going in. Remember that a beer that ends at 1.015 weighs about 1015g/l. Although if you just calculate at a kilo per litre, as for water, you're guaranteed to never overfill.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Mr B said:


> Thats a point on saving carb gas, I had discounted this option, hmm......


Keep in mind that you probably use that gas to do your transfers instead, so it's not really a net saving.

Still, it's new kit, and new kit is always fun.


----------



## Tahoose

Not if you do it like this..


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/16907-keg-transfer-made-easy/


----------



## pcqypcqy

Tahoose said:


> Not if you do it like this..
> 
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/16907-keg-transfer-made-easy/


True, but that relies on you having the bottom of your liquid in your kegmenter above the top level of the corny you're trying to fill. One of the reasons I've gone kegmenter and put the ferment chamber where I have is to avoid having to shift a full kegmenter of wort. To make it higher I'd need to lift everything else.

But, still a good idea for smaller things.


----------



## Coldspace

pcqypcqy said:


> Results of the first spin. Ran my porter at 18 as I did previously with un-pressurised versions, transferred yesterday after 7 days into 2 corny's. One of these is destined to be transferred to PET bottles for the SEQld Case swap.
> 
> No major issues, though I found it difficult to detect exactly how full each corny was. I could feel how cold it was, but after a while the cold level was creeping ahead of the fill level, so it was difficult to follow. Not a real humid day so no condensation to observe.
> 
> Had more clean beer coming out of the keg than I realised, so ended up blowing beer out of the spunding valve on the second corny. Gave me an excuse to whack the pluto on and have a taste. It's not quite the same as the beer that won me the QABC, but it's pretty close. Pretty happy with the carbonation level that came straight out of the keg, not quite 2 volumes is my estimate which is not far off for a porter. Spunding valve ended up finishing around 20 psi by the end before I crash chilled it. Other styles would require a bit of time on gas before serving.


Looks yummy, I found with my helles, I just needed to add a little more gas when into cornies.

I love this fermenting way...


----------



## Zorco

I'm starting my cold crash in my kegmenter.

Has anyone buckled their stainless as the air pressure of the earth forces doom with beer directed vectors....

It hasn't happened to me yet. I've pressure fermented and have head pressure, but I'm not sure if I've got the balance right yet. Should just get the pencil and pad out to do some calcs....

But I'm interested if anyone has crashed and caused grief? 

Zorco


----------



## Mardoo

Yep, there were a few posts in a thread not long ago, including photos, about caving a corny. I can't remember who but IIRC it was actually about cold-crashing in a corny.

*What immediately follows this sentence is pure and utter speculation on that question.* I think standard keg thickness would be fine though. I wouldn't do corny myself. The ribs combined with their increased thickness would add a significant amount of rigidity.

I have done 40L Firestone ones, with zero isse. This is part of why I SPECULATE that normal 50L & 60L kegs would be fine.


----------



## Coldspace

Zorco said:


> I'm starting my cold crash in my kegmenter.
> 
> Has anyone buckled their stainless as the air pressure of the earth forces doom with beer directed vectors....
> 
> It hasn't happened to me yet. I've pressure fermented and have head pressure, but I'm not sure if I've got the balance right yet. Should just get the pencil and pad out to do some calcs....
> 
> But I'm interested if anyone has crashed and caused grief?
> 
> Zorco


I also whilst at d rest temps, had the spunding valve wound totally in with a pressure sitting at 22 psi. As I dropped the temp in 4 increments over 2 days down to 0 I noticed the pressure drop, but at cc temps it was stable at approx 6-7 psi. So all good there.
You could always compensate by giving it a pressure blast with co2 if you have no resididual pressure in it.


----------



## malt junkie

Guys come on most corny kegs(especially the new kk ones) are thin enough for my 5yo to dint with his tonka truck, a 50L keg you'll do well to ding with a 15LB hammer (i had a dent in one of my keggles despite efforts dent remained).


----------



## Tahoose

pcqypcqy said:


> True, but that relies on you having the bottom of your liquid in your kegmenter above the top level of the corny you're trying to fill. One of the reasons I've gone kegmenter and put the ferment chamber where I have is to avoid having to shift a full kegmenter of wort. To make it higher I'd need to lift everything else.
> 
> But, still a good idea for smaller things.





Current setup, kegmenter in position to allow for the next move which is as per the previous attachment. Normally sit the cube on top of the fridge and use the tap with a hose to fill the keg. 

The keg then doesn't get moved, cold crash in place counter pressure fill the corny or multiple cornies. 

There you are..


----------



## pcqypcqy

Tahoose said:


> image.jpeg
> 
> Current setup, kegmenter in position to allow for the next move which is as per the previous attachment. Normally sit the cube on top of the fridge and use the tap with a hose to fill the keg.
> 
> The keg then doesn't get moved, cold crash in place counter pressure fill the corny or multiple cornies.
> 
> There you are..


I like it.

Wouldn't work for me with my current set up, the top of keg is in line with the bottom of kettle, so I can chill my wort and then drain straight into my kegmenter that's already sitting in my temp control freezer.

MIght be something I can think about now that I have acquired a few new fridges for fermenting/lagering.


----------



## 5150

Home made Kegmenter at Angle Park, Adelaide. I just bought myself a KK Kegmenter, but I would be all over this one if I was close. Easy to change it to a lid like Tahoose did. I hope someone following this thread manages to grab it. :beerbang:


----------



## Maheel

where's the best place to get the parts / kit for a pressure kegmenter ?

is it worth doing the flip upside down and put in a corny lid type kegmenter ?


----------



## nosco

Ive got all the parts ready to make mine like you said. Im going to use tri clover to put on a ball valve. Got the posts from Grain and Grape and the tri clover bits (a clamp, 2" tri clover to 1/2" thread and a 2" cap) off the net.

As to if its worth it Tahoose is using a slightly different setup with success.


----------



## Droopy Brew

I have just picked up a cheap keg and want to get into this pressure fermenting business. I have read most of what I can here but am still a bit undecided how to go about setting it up.

What are thoughts on the best way to set up a keg from scratch for PF? Are there any good products out there that can just clamp onto the 2inch outlet and provide you with a gas and liquid post?


----------



## malt junkie

Both brewhardware and brewers hardware do a clamp on, how ever the one from Norcal brewing solutions I believe is the best over all and one of 3 or 4 they do Starting @ US$69, note none of these are cheap.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Not sure how this would go, you might be cramped for space, but you could get a 2inch end plate, drill some holes in it, grab some threaded bulkhead-type posts and try to build it yourself. 

I use the Keg King kegmenter and have had it for a few months now, probably done half a dozen brews with it. Pretty happy with the quality of the keg itself, though the spunding valve is a bit shit, I'd recommend not using the KK version of this.

Or you could import the ones Malt Junkie mentioned, I looked at that style of fitting before I decided to get the KK one. They look good. Cleaning isn't too hard if you use a pump and recirculate for a while.


----------



## malt junkie

The better spunding valve here , Norcal's top of the line job also has a thermowell in built(US$124), but you need to add a second valve with a compression fitting, and the spunding valve.

all up still cheaper than a conical


----------



## nosco

Im going to do as a few others have done or doing. Get the cheap bits from China and makey own. 2" tri clamp and ball valve. Flip it over and cut a hole for a corny lid. I already have some aluminium to make a frame. But considering i just bought a SS Brewbucket it might take a lot more time than originally planned.


----------



## nosco

Ball valve for drawing off yeast. Dip tube for getting beer.


----------



## sp0rk

So I take it you run off slowly until you get clear beer coming through?


----------



## 5150

I have a kegmenter and I also use a regular keg. Both work equally well. Instead of getting the type of conversion spear other are talking about I just use a regular coupler with the 5/8th ball valves on it. I cut about 18mm off the original spear to avoid trub and yeast. I agree that the KK spunding valves aren't the best, although there actually isn't any problem with the valve, I changed the gauge to a decent one. Let me know if you need pics to clarify what I'm talking about.


----------



## sp0rk

5150 said:


> I have a kegmenter and I also use a regular keg. Both work equally well. Instead of getting the type of conversion spear other are talking about I just use a regular coupler with the 5/8th ball valves on it. I cut about 18mm off the original spear to avoid trub and yeast. I agree that the KK spunding valves aren't the best, although there actually isn't any problem with the valve, I changed the gauge to a decent one. Let me know if you need pics to clarify what I'm talking about.


That'd be great


----------



## Droopy Brew

Yeah 5150, pics would be great. The more I can see the better ideas I will come up with.


----------



## Mardoo

5150 said:


> I agree that the KK spunding valves aren't the best, although there actually isn't any problem with the valve, I changed the gauge to a decent one.


So it's just the gauge that's a problem? I just bought two of their spunding valves yesterday. Other threads have indicated that they're OK if you can work out a process to set them correctly.


----------



## nosco

sp0rk said:


> So I take it you run off slowly until you get clear beer coming through?


 I havnt worked out the process yet. Not sure if I run off the yeast first or run off the beer first. Maybe beer first through the beer post with a picnic tap or something til I get clear beer. That way it wont drop the volume too much.


----------



## nosco

5150 said:


> Instead of getting the type of conversion spear other are talking about I just use a regular coupler with the 5/8th ball valves on it. I cut about 18mm off the original spear to avoid trub and yeast.


Its looks like Ill have lots of stainless fermenter options very soon :beerbang:


----------



## 5150

Mardoo said:


> So it's just the gauge that's a problem? I just bought two of their spunding valves yesterday. Other threads have indicated that they're OK if you can work out a process to set them correctly.


Yeah, I found the gauge was not very accurate. Setting takes a little to get used to. Easiest way I found way to set off another keg or a PET bottle. In saying this I have accidentally set it too high, checked on it about 18 hours later and the pressure was close to 40psi. I opened it up and set it to about 12psi, fermentation still finished in three days.


----------



## 5150

Here is a photo of what i use on a standard keg. The coupler is a little bastardised because with the standard handle they don't work on my 20L kegs. I hope it helps.


----------



## Mardoo

Good to know one can set them for higher than 15psi. Thanks for the help.


----------



## pcqypcqy

5150 said:


> I have a kegmenter and I also use a regular keg. Both work equally well. Instead of getting the type of conversion spear other are talking about I just use a regular coupler with the 5/8th ball valves on it. I cut about 18mm off the original spear to avoid trub and yeast. I agree that the KK spunding valves aren't the best, although there actually isn't any problem with the valve, I changed the gauge to a decent one. Let me know if you need pics to clarify what I'm talking about.


I'd politely disagree with the valve being OK. I find that there's a bit of wiggle room between the screw and the body, and wiggling this makes a marked difference in the rate of gas coming out and you can see the gauge start to change if you stand there for a few minutes. I've left it overnight after thinking I've set it (and have watched for a few minutes to check that it's stead), and then see the next morning that it's maxed out onto the pin that stop it moving around again past zero. You then unscrew it by a fraction of a turn, then a few hours later it's down to 10 psi or less.

I think the supplied gauge is OK (though I wouldn't mind a few more psi so I can see where it actually gets to when it maxes out), but I find that screw valve/spring assembly really fiddly.


----------



## Lager Bloke

I have just my second pressure ferment about to transfer to keg-only new process for me too.The way I set the pressure on spunding valve was fill vessel with co2 to purge oxygen + increased pressure to check for any leaks (sprayed starsan on edges,welds,etc).Fermenter fully sealed-no leaks,then just backed off spunding valve to 15psi and left it as was then added wort and yeast and into ferment fridge.
The 2nd one I'm about to transfer I'd forgotten that valve was shut to finish off carbonating brew+cold crashing on first batch.For 2 days hadn't seen gauge register any pressure but when I cracked adjuster on valve found that said needle on valve had actually done a full lap of gauge and was fair way into ferment (transferred wort onto yeast cake in vessel).Rob.


----------



## Maheel

5150 said:


> Here is a photo of what i use on a standard keg. The coupler is a little bastardised because with the standard handle they don't work on my 20L kegs. I hope it helps.


i am using the same set up, works great no drama

i had the coupler sitting around from a bucket of taps etc i bought years ago so made it cheaper for me


----------



## malt junkie

If your using standard keg couplers, remember that most of these contain a one way valve that should be removed prior to setting up for pressure fermenting.


----------



## JB

malt junkie said:


> If your using standard keg couplers, remember that most of these contain a one way valve that should be removed prior to setting up for pressure fermenting.


Good point MJ. Heard this mentioned before but need to track down the 'how to'


----------



## Droopy Brew

The coupler idea certainly looks the easiest. Looking on ebay now?
Also interested to see how to remove the 1 way valve.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Droopy Brew said:


> The coupler idea certainly looks the easiest. Looking on ebay now?
> Also interested to see how to remove the 1 way valve.


Look and ye shall find. For those interested in the couplers- this explains all including valve removal.


----------



## JB

Cheers droopy


----------



## claypot

Anyone given any thought to adapting one of these to fit a pressure cleaner / water blaster for cleaning the inside?





http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/19MM-3-4-Pipe-to-45MM-1-3-4-Ball-Sanitary-Cleaning-Spray-Ball-SUS-SS316-NEW-/111350285176


----------



## malt junkie

claypot said:


> Anyone given any thought to adapting one of these to fit a pressure cleaner / water blaster for cleaning the inside?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s-l200.jpg
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/19MM-3-4-Pipe-to-45MM-1-3-4-Ball-Sanitary-Cleaning-Spray-Ball-SUS-SS316-NEW-/111350285176


The setup from norcalbrewing I linked earlier has a rotating sprayer inbuilt. Another reason I like it best. Also why it's the most expensive.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Notes:
As for spunding valves being a little unreliable for pressure control and beer blow through clogging etc. 
I have had brews take off really fast early stage and hit pressures up to 40psi. Not good. I have detected a flavour fault that I'd suspect is yeast stress. Its still good beer but for fermentation procedure now as a (no fail by stuck spunding valve scenario). I do a 4mm blow off tube into a flask of water for the first 2 to 3 days of ferment. Its probably 80% done by then and then click on the 80psi spunding valve just to read the pressure rise of the final ~20% of the ferment. Its a feel/guess thing but the brew should finish at ~22psi as usual but without crazy pressure fluctuations throughout the ferment. 
Also avoiding beer blow through the spunding valve and clogging because you've made a good body beer etc.

$0.02


----------



## claypot

I've just discovered this pressure fermenting gig, sounds awesome for double batch's. 

Instead of the KK spunding valve, could you not just use a pressure regulator that is normally used for compressed air?
The way I see it is the KK one is designed to relieve pressure not regulate it. A regulator would provide a more constant pressure.
I would think it would provide a finer, more reliable set point.


----------



## Maheel

nope a compressor valve stops at a certain pressure as it builds "up" and then closes "shut"

spunding works in reverse lets it out until you get down to X pressure then shuts


----------



## Maheel

on drunken reflection i think you mean the "air line regulator" not the on / of switch reg....

dont air line regs let out air anything under what you set but not above.? ( mine do this)

so then you will never build any pressure anyway and it will just leak pressure

that said what happens if you put air line regs on in reverse ? (i assume you make a bomb)


----------



## claypot

Yeah, I stuffed up. This won't work....
Pressure in kegmenter will continue to rise, the only pressure that will be regulated will be the gas out...
thought it seemed to simple. I better have another beer.


----------



## peteru

Danscraftbeer said:


> I do a 4mm blow off tube into a flask of water for the first 2 to 3 days of ferment. Its probably 80% done by then and then click on the 80psi spunding valve just to read the pressure rise of the final ~20% of the ferment. Its a feel/guess thing but the brew should finish at ~22psi as usual but without crazy pressure fluctuations throughout the ferment.


I don't have a kegmenter (yet), so am far from an expert on this matter, but...

Isn't that kind of defeating some of the benefits of brewing in a kegmenter? I thought the idea was that the increased pressure will suppress some ester formation that happens fairly early in the fermentation process. Thus, if you perform most of your fermentation at ambient pressure and only capture the CO2 at the end, you are effectively only using the kegmenter to carbonate the beer. Thus you are missing out on some of the benefits - higher temps, faster brews, less off flavours.

Or have I got it completely wrong?


----------



## fw00r

peteru said:


> I don't have a kegmenter (yet), so am far from an expert on this matter, but...
> 
> Isn't that kind of defeating some of the benefits of brewing in a kegmenter? I thought the idea was that the increased pressure will suppress some ester formation that happens fairly early in the fermentation process. Thus, if you perform most of your fermentation at ambient pressure and only capture the CO2 at the end, you are effectively only using the kegmenter to carbonate the beer. Thus you are missing out on some of the benefits - higher temps, faster brews, less off flavours.
> 
> Or have I got it completely wrong?


I think you're on the right track peteru, but in the case of not being able to trust the spunding valve that seems to be a way to get _some _of the benefits.
Ideally the valve would work as required... but 40psi seems to suggest it wasn't for Danscraftbeer.


----------



## malt junkie

I think either plenty of head space or fermcap would help solve the issue of the spunding getting gunked up. For me and a fair few home brewers, I try to exclude as many chemical agents as I can.
In this case the yanks again have the advantage, their 58L Sanke kegs have that little bit of extra head space to allow for double batches. A 40L batch in a 50L keg gives you 20% when you likely need 30%+.

Yankee kegs do pop up, but rarely, and the cost of importing is ridiculous, best bet find a craft bar with a Yankee beer on tap and see if you can't buy the empty keg (they ain't going to ship it back too costly) 

cheers


----------



## pcqypcqy

When I've expected a blow out (such as 40 litres of porter in a 50 litre keg), as suggested earlier in this thread (I think) I've run a line from the kegmenter gas out to a spare, sanitised corny, then put the spunding valve on the corny.. This is essentially a blow off tube, but with the ability to hold the pressure. This worked well for the blow off, still doesn't fix the spunding valve being fiddly.

I'm probably going to try what Danscraftbeer suggested and not try to hold the pressure for the first few days. I get way too many pressure spikes and I can't imagine this is good for the beer. I think the general technique is to try and ferment at a few psi, and then close the valve towards the end to carbonate as much as possible, so maybe I'll put the valve on with no tension on the spring, and then slowly screw it in over time and see how that goes.

Craftbrewer sells a spunding valve that looks to be better quality, not sure if it works better or not.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Good points. As for pressure supressed Esters at higher temps. I just don't go higher temps. I've always brewed at the lower yeast temps.
pcqy's suggestion of a spare keg as the way to keep pressure control with the spunding valve is an excellent idea. I could use one of my mini kegs I'm getting for that it will fit in the ferment fridge. It also doubles as a collecting chamber for the high Krausen blow off yeast as an option.
I like that idea a lot! B)


----------



## malt junkie

Danscraftbeer said:


> Good points. As for pressure supressed Esters at higher temps. I just don't go higher temps. I've always brewed at the lower yeast temps.
> pcqy's suggestion of a spare keg as the way to keep pressure control with the spunding valve is an excellent idea. I could use one of my mini kegs I'm getting for that it will fit in the ferment fridge. It also doubles as a collecting chamber for the high Krausen blow off yeast as an option.
> I like that idea a lot! B)


To add to this, best practice would have you flush the line between fermenter and keg daily, to prevent any build up drying out.


----------



## Mardoo

Well, my first fully pressurised ferment is finally on. I'm totally stoked! From 0 to 11 psi in 11 hours, using a vitality starter. The pressure gauge actually showed 0 at 6:00 this morning and 11 psi at noon. 

But, on the gauge and relief valve, the valve was actually set at 6 psi, so out the gate there's either more learning (always), or issues to resolve. I set it on the keg I was transferring into, pressuring it to 6 psi, and then setting the valve off the keg. Then I purged the keg. I checked the valve setting on the second pressure/purge cycle. 

Nevertheless I'm totally wrapped to finally be here. I've done a few pressurised dry hoppings, but this is where I've been aiming for awhile.


----------



## Coldspace

I haven't looked back since moving into pressurised ferment .

The natural carbonation just makes my beers taste that little bit nicer etc


----------



## Mardoo

Do you dry hop? If so, how do you handle the dry hopping then carbonation?


----------



## Midnight Brew

I love the tare instructions and measurements on the side. That is one damn fine FV you have there Mardoo.


----------



## Mardoo

Cheers. I'm loving them so far. Three for ferment, three for dispense. The tare notes make closed liquid transfer and measuring so much easier.


----------



## nosco

Nearly finished my "dome-icle" fermeter. It will only be about 450mm - 500mm high depending on how i set up the ball valve and elbow. To wide for my little bar fridge unfortunately. Obviously it wont work as well as a conical but ill be able to draw off heaps of yeast.

One more post to go. Just have to test out the position of the beer dip tube. I might get a thermowell. Ill test it out first.


----------



## nosco

And the big moment....it hold pressure 

Edit: i just have to cut the beer tube now but ll do that tomorrow.


----------



## Tony121

Looks brilliant, well done!

So the lid seals ok with just a hole cut out? What did you use to cut it, just a grinder?


----------



## Maheel

where did you get the G/B posts (assuming they are no-weld)


----------



## nosco

Tony121 said:


> Looks brilliant, well done!
> 
> So the lid seals ok with just a hole cut out? What did you use to cut it, just a grinder?


The lid seems to seal ok. I had a slight leak the first try but I turned the lid around and it was ok. I used one of those thin 2mm cuttersl on an angle grinder that was already smaller from use. Ut was only a quick test so ill fill to about 20psi and see if it holds pressure over night.



Maheel said:


> where did you get the G/B posts (assuming they are no-weld)


From Grain and Grape

Gas Post

Beer post

I only did them up hand tight. Any tighter and the grommet squashed out of shape. Geez when I look back at the price I could have just about had a Fermentasaurus with apressure kit! :huh:


----------



## nosco

My first pressure test went ok. It held pressure over night at about 15psi coz thats about as high as I want it to go. I wasnt game to go to 30 just yet. The pressure didnt hold so well with a 1/2 perc 1/2 TSI clean. It had a slight leak and then I made it worse when I tried to tighten it. Probably a good thing without a PRV so I just let it go and put a towel over it. The inside came up very clean.

The o-rings on the bulkhead posts that I am using seem a tiny bit to big. So I swapped them with some that go on the top of the post where the disconnect goes. Perfect. They are a tighter fit so that the o-ring doesn't squash out of the sides when you do them up really tight.

No more pressure tests until I get a new lid with a PRV.


----------



## pcqypcqy

nosco said:


> My first pressure test went ok. It held pressure over night at about 15psi coz thats about as high as I want it to go. I wasnt game to go to 30 just yet. The pressure didnt hold so well with a 1/2 perc 1/2 TSI clean. It had a slight leak and then I made it worse when I tried to tighten it. Probably a good thing without a PRV so I just let it go and put a towel over it. The inside came up very clean.
> 
> The o-rings on the bulkhead posts that I am using seem a tiny bit to big. So I swapped them with some that go on the top of the post where the disconnect goes. Perfect. They are a tighter fit so that the o-ring doesn't squash out of the sides when you do them up really tight.
> 
> No more pressure tests until I get a new lid with a PRV.


Having something that leaks at 15 psi might not be the worst thing, a built in spunding valve  (assuming it's reliable and doesn't occasionally store that pressure on you)


----------



## Droopy Brew

So I have my first beer in the kegmenter. I have taken a few samples but they seem to be way over carbed.

The first night the pressure gauge hit the needle. I bled it off and bought it back to 5 PSI. The past few days it hasnt gone above 12psi.

See attached photo. Is this normal for a sample of pressure fermented beer (drawn off at approx 12psi with a pluto gun kept at same temp- 20C)?

Or do I need to try and bleed most of that CO2 out?


----------



## malt junkie

Once you cold crash the beer will absorb the "excess" co2, you will find at serving temp the beer will be under carbed and you will need to hook up Co2 at serving pressure to attain good carbonation. 

The colder a solution the more Co2 it will absorb 8-10psi when cold should give you solid carbonation.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Tanks MJ. Sort of what I thought but those milkshake samples were a bit off putting. I also put some of the sample in the fridge and approximately 40% or it settled as trub. I knew I had extra hotbreak in there due to having straining issues with 300g of flowers in the boil but thought this might be a bit excessive.
Those that have done this before, do you tend to get a lot of trub drawn up the liquid pipe with samples? I thought (hoping) perhaps the pressure and of course suspended sediment in fermening beer at higher temp would cause this. I trimmed 20mm off the liquid post which from what I understand should be enough. Im hoping once cold crashed for a week, the trub will form a compact layer as usual and clean beer should pour off.


----------



## osprey brewday

You could Get a second dip tube installed in the top plate for taking samples from about 1/2 way up, you will near always pull yeast and trub of the bottom within a few inches during fermentation, I'm not certain but it may have an effect on gravity readings, as you said once cold crashed it will cake together a lot more.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Thanks mate. Good idea but Im like a newbie all over again, i just need reassurance and be told to RDWHAHB.
I let the trub settle from the sample, pulled the clear beer from it and the gravity was the same as the truby (is that even a word?) beer.

I'm sure it will be fine, just dont want to **** something up that could be avoided by asking question.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Mardoo said:


> Do you dry hop? If so, how do you handle the dry hopping then carbonation?


 Im keen to know too. Next beer wil be an IPA so very interested to know how others have dry hopped. 
Do you ferment at 0 pressure or low if planning to dry hop? Can a dry hop be achieved with beer brewed under 15PSI or will that result in a gushing fountain of foam?


----------



## Coldspace

Droopy Brew said:


> Im keen to know too. Next beer wil be an IPA so very interested to know how others have dry hopped.
> Do you ferment at 0 pressure or low if planning to dry hop? Can a dry hop be achieved with beer brewed under 15PSI or will that result in a gushing fountain of foam?


Don't open them up at ambient temps, even after de-pressurisation once open the beer will volcano out and 1/4 keg lost before it settles and due to the co2 rushing out of the beer at ambient, it's very hard to clamp the lid on while keeping the seal in place. Lol. 

I use one for lagers and my other for ales.

Just did a little creatures pale ale copy but tweaked it alittle and it's almost borderline to IPA . I brewed it at 5.5% made 44 ltrs into kegmenter, fermented using an English ale , wl005 , as I wanted a little malt to shine through. Then dry hopped it in 2 additions. 
This brew has turned out spectacular, prob is the 2 cornies I got are nearly drunk by people.

With dry hopping, after ferment at 20 degrees with this yeast, 6 days, I shut valve off, raised temp to 24, checked pressure each day and purged it back down to 24 psi, 4 days later it was stable. I cc it then 24 hrs later after the co2 was absorbed into beer at 1 degree, depressurised which was just a puff of co2, starsan a small/medium hop bag, loaded with my dry hop, open triclamp, drop in, close, pressurise back to 12 psi, purge a couple of times. Left them for 3 days. Beauty is you can click on a pluto gun, pour a cold pot, sample and see where the hops are enough. Was heading in right direction, but I wanted more hops, so depressurised , open , fish out the bag with my sterilised mash paddle, drop next one in. Same close up leave.
3 more days and beauty it was excellent. Then pressure transfer into 2 cornies.

The quickness of the open top coupled with plenty of natural co2 in the headspace would ingress **** all o2, plus you seal it up and repressure and purge it anyway.

I opened it up 2 times as I was still developing my new receipe, 

Plenty of positives using this fermenting techniques .

I'll experiment with a batch soon, an IPA I'm going to do soon, with a dry hop, instead of dropping it to 1, I'll drop it to 6 degrees so hopefully it's cold enough to hold co2 for the 20 seconds or so of open and dropping hop bag in then dry hop it at this temp, but cold dry hoping I'm more than happy with the results.

I've just ordered a stainless 30 cm long keg hopper, so once I'm happy with my receipe and times , I'll open once, drop it in till it's ready to pressure transfer over.

Lagers are just awesome, got a real nice light coloured rice lager sitting at 1 degree ATM , used s189, start to cc was done in 9 days. Sampled a pot sarvo after 2 days at 1 degree, cold, carbonated , slightly hazy still, but very drinkable. I usually brew at 44 ltrs, which is a double high grav mash out of one run in my grainfather. Gets me 44 ltrs at 5-6% brews , gives me a few sample schooners over the chill period to check progress then 2 cornies when done, I've never had one spill out through spunding yet, so the 6 or so ltrs of headspace in these 50 ltrs ones under pressure seems to be ok.

I've run these lagers through a filter at pressure and into cornies which works a treat , lagers perfection in 2-2.5 weeks if in a rush for a social thing, mainly just chill now, open throw in finnings and shut, repressurise and leave for 1 week till transfer .

The 26 ltr ones at ibrew look great for single batches, just got to get me a couple of them soon.

Cheers


----------



## Droopy Brew

Thanks mate. With the 0 pressure I was meaning I would ferment under no pressure rather than just releasing the pressure to dry hop. Sure it removes some of the advantages a pressure ferment brings but i figure I would ferment at normal temp and then once the dry hop goes in I would crank it to get some COS2 into solution and finish off.

Cold dry hop is the other option as you mentioned but it is just an issue of how effective it will be in cold wort. Trial and error i think.


----------



## Coldspace

I haven't had issues with cold dry hop. I sometimes dry hop cold in my cornies. Still works great.

Cheers


----------



## Chridech

Has anyone had issues with excess sulphur fermenting Lagers under pressure? I have brewed the same Bohemian Pilsener twice now in the kegmenter. The first brew I was very cautious and set the spunding valve at 5PSI, and only after 75% expected attenuation. It turned out really well. Minimal sulphur. Second time around I set the spunding valve to 15PSI at 50% attenuation. The beer remained fully carbed after a week cold conditioning sitting on the yeast. On transfer to the serving keg the first aroma was all sulphur and this took a few weeks to calm down. I was just about bowled over by the sulphur fumes when I cleaned out the kegmenter. It makes sense that the sulphur will be trapped if beer is pressure fermented. A potential downside. From now on I think I'll let this beer ferment out without pressure and hook it up to the gas to carb up during the last few days of cold conditioning prior to transfer.


----------



## pcqypcqy

I haven't had any issues releasing pressure and dry hopping or making additions at ambient temperatures. Just relieve the pressure and pop the lid, and bung it in. I purge 2 or 3 times with CO2 to minimise O2 afterwards.

I'm doing 6g batches in the 50lt kegmenter.

I might not do it this way if doing 40 litres of beer.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Mate how do you dry hop? loose or in a bag?

I always prefer loose in a normal fermenter but am concerned that a 150g dry hop in the kegmenter may be too much as the hop matter may be too high and get sucked up by the tube. I have cut 20mm off the original spear length.

My set up is through the original opening so getting a decent size bag in there and then getting the spear back in and the bag tied off to it is something I've been struggling with a bit to work out.

Thoughts?


----------



## malt junkie

Fishing line


----------



## pcqypcqy

Droopy Brew said:


> Mate how do you dry hop? loose or in a bag?
> 
> I always prefer loose in a normal fermenter but am concerned that a 150g dry hop in the kegmenter may be too much as the hop matter may be too high and get sucked up by the tube. I have cut 20mm off the original spear length.
> 
> My set up is through the original opening so getting a decent size bag in there and then getting the spear back in and the bag tied off to it is something I've been struggling with a bit to work out.
> 
> Thoughts?


I dry hop loose with pellets.

I did a citra smash in there before christmas, 200g dry hop. After cold crashing, it seemed to come out crystal clear. 

I too chopped about 20mm off the dip tube.


----------



## pirateagenda

I have been looking into bigger fermenters until i stumbled upon this thread. I happen to have a couple of old sankey kegs laying around. 

Thinking of doing a simple kegmenter setup using a 2" to 4" tri clover adaptor ( like this http://www.stilldragon.com.au/4-x-2-reducer-tapered/) from the keg opening, then having a 4" end cap with a gas post, liquid post/stem and PRV drilled/tapped in. Using the 2 - 4 adaptor as i don't think I could get all 3 fittings onto a 2" end cap. 

So should be able to get out of it for around $100 and have something very similar to the keg king jobs.


----------



## Mall

A most interesting topic. Has anyone tried this:







Or this: https://www.ibrew.com.au/products/c02-pressure-relief-valve

I have an old Sanke lying around and am keen to get going..

edit: just sighted the post from Malt Junkie, so disregard mine..


----------



## Beerandpies

I am looking at trying to track down a 50L kegmenter which a few places have said they are waiting on them from China. In the meantime I have had a look at the SS Brewtech 53L. I have read on here all the benifits from pressure fermenting and was wondering if guys could help me decide if I should be patient or buy the SS Brewtech conical which is 2x the price. Any advice will be helpful


----------



## pcqypcqy

My understanding is that the SS brewtech conicals may not be true pressure fermenters. Off the grain and grape website, they state that you can only pressurise to 5psi for transfers, so you won't be able to do proper carbonation in them. However, that may be enough to get some of the other benefits like cleaner lagers.


----------



## malt junkie

The new SS brewtech Uni Tanks can take up to 30psi, but big hole in pocket!


----------



## pcqypcqy

Ah yep, this 53l (14 gallon) version would certainly take the pressure. But amazingly overkill for homebrew and 3 times the price.

https://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/home-unitanks/products/14-gal-unitank


I suspect the one that is only twice the price would be the one with the clip on lid, which I doubt would do proper pressure.


----------



## malt junkie

Power ball! nough said


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I still stand by my KK 50lt kegmenter. I give it a heat sanitize every time now.
Clean well with Sodium Percarbonate then rinse well. Add 5lt Sanitizer (mixed as per instructions on bottle). I use pure Phosphoric acid for sanitizer now for the no suds version factor and it goes further by volume.
Assemble and then on the burner with a spunding valve. Bring to boiling at ~15 to 20psi release pressure gets around 125c. Like an autoclave.
This also steam flush sanitizes the spunding valves (also KK versions). Pressure cook for say 10 minutes then turn off heat and let sit as long as you want. Or disconect spunding valve and roll the kegmenter around hot. Let cool like that. Only break seal and tip out sanitizer when ready for the new beer to go in.
I've always just cleaned and sanitized cold too with success but the heat treatment is like an added insurance.


----------



## dblunn

Danscraftbeer said:


> I use pure Phosphoric acid for sanitizer now for the no suds version factor and it goes further by volume.


Please tell me about using pure Phosphoric acid as a sanitiser.
Regards, Dave


----------



## Danscraftbeer

dblunn said:


> Please tell me about using pure Phosphoric acid as a sanitiser.
> Regards, Dave


Look it up its common. Star San equivalents etc.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Danscraftbeer said:


> I still stand by my KK 50lt kegmenter. I give it a heat sanitize every time now.
> Clean well with Sodium Percarbonate then rinse well. Add 5lt Sanitizer (mixed as per instructions on bottle). I use pure Phosphoric acid for sanitizer now for the no suds version factor and it goes further by volume.
> Assemble and then on the burner with a spunding valve. Bring to boiling at ~15 to 20psi release pressure gets around 125c. Like an autoclave.
> This also steam flush sanitizes the spunding valves (also KK versions). Pressure cook for say 10 minutes then turn off heat and let sit as long as you want. Or disconect spunding valve and roll the kegmenter around hot. Let cool like that. Only break seal and tip out sanitizer when ready for the new beer to go in.
> I've always just cleaned and sanitized cold too with success but the heat treatment is like an added insurance.



No issues with heat on your disconnects?

I don't go this far, but I do fully disassemble the posts and spunding valve and give it all a cold sanitise with star san. Haven't had an issue yet.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

pcqypcqy said:


> No issues with heat on your disconnects?
> 
> I don't go this far, but I do fully disassemble the posts and spunding valve and give it all a cold sanitise with star san. Haven't had an issue yet.


No problems at all. All the O rings handle the heat. I've done it maybe six times now and still on the same O rings.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Droopy Brew said:


> Mate how do you dry hop? loose or in a bag?
> 
> I always prefer loose in a normal fermenter but am concerned that a 150g dry hop in the kegmenter may be too much as the hop matter may be too high and get sucked up by the tube. I have cut 20mm off the original spear length.
> 
> My set up is through the original opening so getting a decent size bag in there and then getting the spear back in and the bag tied off to it is something I've been struggling with a bit to work out.
> 
> Thoughts?



Teflon tape works quite well for this as you can put it through the seal on the lid and it will still be air tight.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

nosco said:


> And the big moment....it hold pressure
> 
> Edit: i just have to cut the beer tube now but ll do that tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 95643



I am surprised you got this to seal so well with just cutting a hole with a grinder. Does the lid seal at low pressures as well. This can be difficult especially if you don't get even o-ring compression. When you have the pressure at 1-4psi do you still get a good seal?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Chridech said:


> What's the recommendation on shortening the dip-tube to minimise pushing out trub when pressure transferring from Kegmenter to Corny? Don't want to lose too much beer but prefer minimal trub transferred. After my first ferment in the new Kegmenter yesterday I pushed the beer out (a Bo Pils). First to 4 PET bottles (as I new I put 25L of wort into the Kegmenter) and then to the 19L Corny. Unfortunately I over-pressurised the first PET and stirred up all the shite with back pressure. The remainder of the transfer was cloudy. Not sure if this was due to stirring up the trub or would have happened anyway because I hadn't shortened the dip-tube.



Shortening the dip tube is ok but we have found the best option is to use floating dip tube like this:

https://www.kegland.com.au/4-inch-t...sts-floating-dip-tube-and-prv-red-2-5bar.html


----------



## KegLand-com-au

pcqypcqy said:


> Wife: "Why did you spend $300 on another keg for brewing"
> Me: "because the internet told me to"
> Wife: "Fair enough, carry on."



$300?

I think you mean $189 for the 29L
https://www.kegland.com.au/29l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html

and $219 for the 58L model
https://www.kegland.com.au/58l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html


----------



## mashmaniac

KegLand-com-au said:


> $300?
> 
> I think you mean $189 for the 29L
> https://www.kegland.com.au/29l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html
> 
> and $219 for the 58L model
> https://www.kegland.com.au/58l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html


With the lids for these would you look and the possibility of a thermo-well???


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Mr B said:


> Mmmmm so many 'needs'.
> 
> They are certainly interesting, and quite a cost effective stainless fermenter, with the added bonus of pressure ferments. I'd ideally want a little more volume, 60l would be good, or two 30l ones.....
> 
> Hmmmm searching thinking searching thinking
> 
> Cheers




Hey Mr B. We have taken your advice and the requests from a few other brewers and done this for you:

https://www.kegland.com.au/29l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html

https://www.kegland.com.au/58l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html


----------



## nosco

I got this up and running over the weekend on a 50lt keg. I already had some of the parts but the whole lot would be about $100 all up.


----------



## S.E

nosco said:


> I got this up and running over the weekend on a 50lt keg. I already had some of the parts but the whole lot would be about $100 all up. View attachment 112782


What sort of dip have you connected to the out post?


----------



## nosco

I just bought a new one from Grain and Grape so its just a regular dip tube. It's in a "through the wall" keg post from GnG as well. That goes in to a 1/4" to 1/2" adapter, then in to a 1/2" T peice and then into a 1/2" to 2" tri clover. Same for the gas post.


----------



## nosco

The dip tube was a perfext height. Didnt need any trimming. It sits about 10mm from the bottom.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

nosco said:


> I got this up and running over the weekend on a 50lt keg. I already had some of the parts but the whole lot would be about $100 all up. View attachment 112782



We have been considering making something like this and selling it for about $50. If this is something of considerable interest we will start making it but it seems that most customers are going for the Kegmenters.


----------



## nosco

KegLand-com-au said:


> We have been considering making something like this and selling it for about $50. If this is something of considerable interest we will start making it but it seems that most customers are going for the Kegmenters.


I have a DIY keg cleaner that i hope will do the job other wise it will use to much water. A KL kegmemter is still on the wish list down the track.


----------



## enoch

Sadly I saw the 58 litre version after they sold out.
I’ve got a kk 50 litre version I just use as a keg as it’s too squeezy for my brew length of 47 to 50 litres. 
Waiting for it to be back in stock...


----------



## KegLand-com-au

enoch said:


> Sadly I saw the 58 litre version after they sold out.
> I’ve got a kk 50 litre version I just use as a keg as it’s too squeezy for my brew length of 47 to 50 litres.
> Waiting for it to be back in stock...



Yes we did get this same enquiry from a number of customers which is the main reason why we now do 58L kegs.

Also we can deep draw the stainless halves of the keg to this maximum depth to make the 58L so it's the same cost to produce as it uses the same amount of raw material as the 50L keg. So I guess its also a bit more efficient in that respect too. TUnfortunately sold out until next container in 25th July. You can sign up to notifications for the product here:

https://www.kegland.com.au/58l-kegmenter-304-stainless-uni-tank-pressurisable-fermenter.html


----------



## Milk-lizard84

I really like the kegmenters. My only problem with them is no thermowell. Is this something that could be welded into the pressure caps?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Milk-lizard84 said:


> I really like the kegmenters. My only problem with them is no thermowell. Is this something that could be welded into the pressure caps?



If you are fermenting in a fridge (which is what we recommend) then we really feel a thermowell is not necessary. Would be keen to hear what other people think on this one. We feel that it's just one more thing to wash out and already you will get quite accurate temperature reading by taping the termometer to the outside of the fermenter/kegmenter


----------



## Milk-lizard84

KegLand-com-au said:


> If you are fermenting in a fridge (which is what we recommend) then we really feel a thermowell is not necessary. Would be keen to hear what other people think on this one. We feel that it's just one more thing to wash out and already you will get quite accurate temperature reading by taping the termometer to the outside of the fermenter/kegmenter


I just find with a thermowell in my other fermenters I tend to get a better reading as it's taking the temp from the centre of the fermenter. I run all my fermenters in a fridge as well. Just a preference thing I guess.


----------



## mashmaniac

KegLand-com-au said:


> If you are fermenting in a fridge (which is what we recommend) then we really feel a thermowell is not necessary. Would be keen to hear what other people think on this one. We feel that it's just one more thing to wash out and already you will get quite accurate temperature reading by taping the termometer to the outside of the fermenter/kegmenter


If your using Brew Pi it's a must, and it is the best ferment control, now I'm not saying the yeast will know any difference over .5c, but being able to see on graph exactly when fermentation stopped is kinda special.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

I thought that when you measure the centre of your wort and it is in a fridge, that around the outside would be significantly cooler?
Makes sense to the measure the outside to me since you would be controlling the majority of the wort.


----------



## mashmaniac

Fro-Daddy said:


> I thought that when you measure the centre of your wort and it is in a fridge, that around the outside would be significantly cooler?
> Makes sense to the measure the outside to me since you would be controlling the majority of the wort.


If you were cold crashing maybe, if your trying to maintain a steady temp is would be marginal. Brew pi measures the temp of the wort and the fridge temp the uses an algorithm to cool/heat for the right amount of time to affect the desired change in wort temp.


----------



## Chridech

KegLand-com-au said:


> Shortening the dip tube is ok but we have found the best option is to use floating dip tube like this:
> 
> https://www.kegland.com.au/4-inch-t...sts-floating-dip-tube-and-prv-red-2-5bar.html


Just took delivery of two of the kegmenter lids with the floating dip-tubes as per your recommendation. The ball float and silicone tubing looks to be the same as that supplied for the Fermentasaurus. I think it will be a PITA to get the tubing supplied to fit over the beer tube post, at a minimum it’s going to require soaking the tubing in boiling water to get it it fit. Also, will the length of tubing supplied make it to the bottom of a 50L KK/58L KL Kegmenter?


----------



## sp0rk

nosco said:


> I got this up and running over the weekend on a 50lt keg. I already had some of the parts but the whole lot would be about $100 all up. View attachment 112782


Hey nosco
I've gotta ask, which do you prefer, the kegmenter with a 2" opening or your dome-icle
The only thing pushing me away from the 2" opening is dry hopping and filling from a cube being a pain


----------



## nosco

I couldnt tell you sorry Spork. Ive only done 2 pilsners in it and the 2nd one is still in the ferm fridge (i pitched the 2nd on the first yeast cake) . Im not even sure how its gonna clean up. I do like my dome-icle though.


----------



## sp0rk

nosco said:


> Im going to do as a few others have done or doing. Get the cheap bits from China and makey own. 2" tri clamp and ball valve. Flip it over and cut a hole for a corny lid. I already have some aluminium to make a frame. But considering i just bought a SS Brewbucket it might take a lot more time than originally planned.
> 
> View attachment 95062


Sorry @nosco one other question, I'm guessing the 2" tri clamp to 1/2" thread fitting you used is the below one?
Because I can't find any other anywhere on the usual sites
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-T...rch0104.8.28.319b11880PFHL3&priceBeautifyAB=0


----------



## nosco

Yep thats the one


----------



## Beerandpies

Ive got my first 50L pale ale pressure ferment in the kegmenter. Its sitting at 10psi at 8 days.
How are you guys dry hopping? When it comes to dropping pressure out, putting hops in and re-pressurising. 
Do you chuck them in loose or use a bag? Is there issues with purging an already carbonated beer. 
I'm worried about clogging the float and tube and introducing O2 into the beer.


----------



## Maheel

saw this one for $7

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Ada...000&pvid=7b715bc0-a5ac-4f08-9c89-6cc267a0dbdc


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A tri clamp as Maheel suggests with a 1" BSP fitting, a 1" ball valve and a bottle.
That's how I do mine on my Cubementer.


----------



## Beerandpies

wide eyed and legless said:


> A tri clamp as Maheel suggests with a 1" BSP fitting, a 1" ball valve and a bottle.
> That's how I do mine on my Cubementer.
> View attachment 114024


I like it, food for thought. Won't be this batch. So I think it'll be open and drop in. 
Cheers guys


----------



## Lionman

I just dry hop from day dot. Transfer to serving keg after 5 days. Leave for a week at room temp in serving keg before chilling.

Did a pacific ale style last week, after kegging it I drank the leftovers directly from the kegmenter and they were delicious. Full of passionfruit aroma and flavour. It could be chilled and served right now and it would be perfect.

Nottingham loves the pressure!


----------



## pirateagenda

yep since starting pressure fermenting i have been dry hopping when i pitch yeast to avoid the wort volcano. 
beers have been fruitier and delicious.


----------



## fdsaasdf

pirateagenda said:


> yep since starting pressure fermenting i have been dry hopping when i pitch yeast to avoid the wort volcano.
> beers have been fruitier and delicious.


Ageee pitching hops with yeast can work very well for some styles - and is necessary for biotrasformation eg NIEPAS - but it pays to be aware that not all hop varieties and beer styles respond so well to this. Reducing oxidisation introduced by post-fermentation dry hop is definitely a benefit.


----------



## Engibeer

Got my 58L kegmenter from Keg King.

Quick question - does anyone have a single upright fridge/freezer in which they can store 2 + cornies and a kegmenter?

E.g. 2x cornies in front of compressor step, and Kegmenter on the shelf above, or ideally, kegmenter just above compressor step and 2-4 cornies on shelf above?

Interested to see/hear about any similar setups!


----------



## pirateagenda

Engibeer said:


> Got my 58L kegmenter from Keg King.
> 
> Quick question - does anyone have a single upright fridge/freezer in which they can store 2 + cornies and a kegmenter?
> 
> E.g. 2x cornies in front of compressor step, and Kegmenter on the shelf above, or ideally, kegmenter just above compressor step and 2-4 cornies on shelf above?
> 
> Interested to see/hear about any similar setups!



Yeah I have an old kelvinator fridge that fits a 50L keg with 2 cornies next to it, all on one shelf above the hump. about 700 wide from memory.


----------



## Lionman

Kegged a NEIPA (of sorts) yesterday. Pitched it last monday so about 7 days in. Nottingham took it from 1.063 to 1.008 at 20c. Beastly Yeastlies.

Drew a small sample to measure and taste. So much hop aroma and flavour. Quite dry though, almost a Brut. Not quite what I was going for but happy nonetheless.

It also came out so much clearer than anticipated. I did a pacific ale last week and it came out as above, plenty of wheat haze. This one seemed a fair bit more clear even though the grist was similar except I added some golden naked oats as well. Weird. Looking forward to smashing some in a couple of weeks when its tapped for an event.


----------



## altone

Lionman said:


> Kegged a NEIPA (of sorts) yesterday. Pitched it last monday so about 7 days in. Nottingham took it from 1.063 to 1.008 at 20c. Beastly Yeastlies.
> 
> Drew a small sample to measure and taste. So much hop aroma and flavour. Quite dry though, almost a Brut. Not quite what I was going for but happy nonetheless.
> 
> It also came out so much clearer than anticipated. I did a pacific ale last week and it came out as above, plenty of wheat haze. This one seemed a fair bit more clear even though the grist was similar except I added some golden naked oats as well. Weird. Looking forward to smashing some in a couple of weeks when its tapped for an event.



You made a clear NEIPA? wow! that might be the next big trend 

I've had the odd brew that went too far on the dry side as well I normally just blend it up with something a little less dry.
ie. I make something similar with a less aggressive yeast and put them together.
I've never managed the back sweetening thing successfully.


----------



## Lionman

altone said:


> You made a clear NEIPA? wow! that might be the next big trend
> 
> I've had the odd brew that went too far on the dry side as well I normally just blend it up with something a little less dry.
> ie. I make something similar with a less aggressive yeast and put them together.
> I've never managed the back sweetening thing successfully.



The sample was a bit small to really tell, was just a bit in the bottom of a wine glass. It doesn't need back sweetening. Was nice and crisp and refreshing. I wish I had more at the time.


----------



## NZ Brewer

Could I make one of these out of an old 20 gallon DB keg?


----------



## altone

NZ Brewer said:


> Could I make one of these out of an old 20 gallon DB keg?


If you've got the keg and the coupler - don't see why not.
If it's the keg I'm thinking of it uses a D type coupler.


----------



## Lionman

NZ Brewer said:


> Could I make one of these out of an old 20 gallon DB keg?



20 gallon? Never seen a keg that large before. That would be 75L. Bloody heavy keg!

I thought the biggest was a US half barrel which is 15.5 gallon or about 58L?

Or is it really old?


----------



## sp0rk

20 Imperial Gallons is 90L (but I've only ever heard of 18gal kegs)
They were used here before we shifted to the 50L kegs we use now
You see them as mailboxes out in woopwoop quite a bit
Quite a few people use the 18gal ones for brewing in, I've got one hidden away at home


----------



## Lionman

you wouldn't want to have to move that once you'd filled it.


----------



## altone

I'm pretty sure they are 20 US gallons not Imperial if it's the old DB keg I'm thinking of.
That is about 75 litres. But they are bloody big.


----------



## Lionman

So I just got home and the pressure was a bit high so I adjusted the PRV to vent the fermenter and get the pressure back down where I want it. When I did this there was a very strong smell of DMS which I haven't noticed before.

Will I end up with DMS flavour in the finished beer or will it be ok?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

During fermentation, CO2 bubbles actually help remove DMS from the beer. More vigorous ale yeasts tend to produce lower DMS levels. Also different strains of yeast do tend to produce DMS during fermentation primarily by converting DMSO (which does not boil off) to DMS. Lager yeasts will have a higher DMS because of the lower fermentation temperature. A reason to be wary of the pressures used and how long for during pressure fermentation. Some good reading in Wiley Online Library.


----------



## Lionman

I have done heaps of reading on DMS and have a reasonable understanding of the sources.

I have never noticed it in any of my brews before now and the smell was very strong of creamed corn. I have done 5 batches now in the kegmenter and the smell during fermentation has always been very good.

I did use about 30% pilsner malt so that could be the source, I did a vigorous 60min boil and chilled it quickly afterwards. Maybe I should have boiled for longer with the pilsner malt, although I have used similar amounts in the past without issue before using a kegmenter.

Maybe I have an infection in this batch. There are are number of wild yeasts and bacteria that can contribute DMS. Its common in spontaneous fermentations such as lambics.

I've been venting the pressure regularly in the hope I can drive off the DMS down to a level that is not offensive. The smell does seem to have subsided after a few vents but I could also just becoming less sensitive to it. Hope I don't need to ditch this batch.

Arg!


----------



## altone

Hope it's not an infection mate but to quote Brad Smith


> DMS aromas (including some sulfur or rotten-egg aroma) during fermentation (particularly lagers) are not unusual,
> so you don’t need to toss your beer out just because you have a DMS aroma during fermentation.
> Some of this will fade naturally during the lagering process.



I usually do a 75min boil when using pilsner - just to be safe.
But 60 mins should really be more than enough with the current malts we have.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Lionman said:


> I have done heaps of reading on DMS and have a reasonable understanding of the sources.
> 
> I have never noticed it in any of my brews before now and the smell was very strong of creamed corn. I have done 5 batches now in the kegmenter and the smell during fermentation has always been very good.
> 
> I did use about 30% pilsner malt so that could be the source, I did a vigorous 60min boil and chilled it quickly afterwards. Maybe I should have boiled for longer with the pilsner malt, although I have used similar amounts in the past without issue before using a kegmenter.
> 
> Maybe I have an infection in this batch. There are are number of wild yeasts and bacteria that can contribute DMS. Its common in spontaneous fermentations such as lambics.
> 
> I've been venting the pressure regularly in the hope I can drive off the DMS down to a level that is not offensive. The smell does seem to have subsided after a few vents but I could also just becoming less sensitive to it. Hope I don't need to ditch this batch.
> 
> Arg!


I know that you know about letting the the co2 vent and I agreed somewhat with this post (below) which you put up recently, apart from the ale fermentation but that is just my taste, yes you can ferment an ale under some pressure, and yes it will have a clean taste and it will drop clear at the expense of the yeast esters. Agree wholeheartedly that a Belgian should not be included in pressure ferments at any cost.

Lionman quote.
My point was that if you are pressure fermenting, the temperature difference is not as critical due to the higher pressures suppressing ester production.

Some people are reporting the clean fermentation of ales at 26c at 1 bar, so its plausible that the difference between 20c and 21c at pressure is negligible.

The actual temperature is not really that important, it's the results that count. If you are producing consistent and desirable results, the exact temperature doesn't really matter. Temperature stability becomes the real benefit of temperature controlled fermentation.

If you are brewing estery styles like Belgians or Wheats then you probably wouldn't be pressure fermenting and accurate temperature becomes a lot more important, especially for yeast strains that produce different esters in different, relatively narrow temp ranges.


----------



## Lionman

altone said:


> Hope it's not an infection mate but to quote Brad Smith
> I usually do a 75min boil when using pilsner - just to be safe.
> But 60 mins should really be more than enough with the current malts we have.



I know I shouldn't worry yet, but its hard not too. I'm mainly concerned because I have brewed a series of batches all with the same yeast and this one is noticeably different. I'll keep venting it periodically to help purge as much DMS as possible.


----------



## altone

Lionman said:


> I know I shouldn't worry yet, but its hard not too. I'm mainly concerned because I have brewed a series of batches all with the same yeast and this one is noticeably different. I'll keep venting it periodically to help purge as much DMS as possible.


All my recent Americans have been done with 1450 so I'm kind of used to how it goes.
The last one I did crawled out of the 30l fermenter with only 19l in it in less than 24 hours 
same temp same yeast but very different, maybe I just made the perfect starter for it I dunno.
Maybe your starter this time got stressed and is behaving differently.
Let's hope so as if that's the case you'll end up with something drinkable if not perfect.
My old speckled hen type brew on the other hand is going so slow I expected it to be done by now 
but it's dropping slowly and hopefully has about 4 points to go.
At least the hydro sample tasted good.


----------



## Beerandpies

pirateagenda said:


> yep since starting pressure fermenting i have been dry hopping when i pitch yeast to avoid the wort volcano.
> beers have been fruitier and delicious.


So I'm on my second pressure ferment. The first I didn't get a good seal on the primary ferment (6" opening on kegmenter) so when I reseated the seal i also dry hopped at about day 5/6. I feel this beer is lacking the dry hop flavour and aroma. I used about 90g of centennial and 10g Amarillo. Note: the hops had been in my freezer in a sandwich bag for greater then 5months. 
The second i did yesterday. I used US05 1L starter for a 1.043 Amber ale. I have dry hopped when pitching the yeast with 45g simcoe, 45g Amarillo and 10g centennial (trying to use it up). It is currently at 5psi and rising to the set 8psi. This time it has sealed properly. 

What do brewers recommend the optimal psi setting should be?

Feel free to provide advice on all aspects


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Beerandpies said:


> So I'm on my second pressure ferment. The first I didn't get a good seal on the primary ferment (6" opening on kegmenter) so when I reseated the seal i also dry hopped at about day 5/6. I feel this beer is lacking the dry hop flavour and aroma. I used about 90g of centennial and 10g Amarillo. Note: the hops had been in my freezer in a sandwich bag for greater then 5months.
> The second i did yesterday. I used US05 1L starter for a 1.043 Amber ale. I have dry hopped when pitching the yeast with 45g simcoe, 45g Amarillo and 10g centennial (trying to use it up). It is currently at 5psi and rising to the set 8psi. This time it has sealed properly.
> 
> What do brewers recommend the optimal psi setting should be?
> 
> Feel free to provide advice on all aspects


It depends what you are brewing and how you like your end product to turn out, hop forward ales I would be going for 4 to 8 psi, detrimental to yeast so eliminating any esters the yeast may produce.
What is it you are brewing?


----------



## Beerandpies

wide eyed and legless said:


> It depends what you are brewing and how you like your end product to turn out, hop forward ales I would be going for 4 to 8 psi, detrimental to yeast so eliminating any esters the yeast may produce.
> What is it you are brewing?


I brewed Amber with US05 and simcoe and Amarillo dry hop . I thought I had it set for 8psi then checked today and it was at 15psi. Readjusted back to 8.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Beerandpies said:


> I brewed Amber with US05 and simcoe and Amarillo dry hop . I thought I had it set for 8psi then checked today and it was at 15psi. Readjusted back to 8.


Ouch, I did that early on with an English bitter except it went higher than 15psi turned out very clean but did suppress the yeastiness. Sound like you are putting the pressure on a bit early in the ferment.


----------



## Beerandpies

wide eyed and legless said:


> Ouch, I did that early on with an English bitter except it went higher than 15psi turned out very clean but did suppress the yeastiness. Sound like you are putting the pressure on a bit early in the ferment.


So what psi would you recommend for primary?


----------



## altone

I normally leave the PRV wide open for the first few days (actually I don't use it I put a blowoff tube on) with ales and then go to 5 psi.
if you're actually racking/moving to a secondary, I'd leave it there until you do that then maybe raise closer to serving pressures.
For lagers/more hop forward beers I'd do a higher psi after initial fermentation.

warning: I'm still pretty new at this.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Beerandpies said:


> So what psi would you recommend for primary?


Just about exactly what Altone suggests, don't hook up your PRV let the gas out for a couple of days so you will be driving out the DMS with the co2 cap and set to whatever pressure you want if you are going to keg. If I am going to bottle I wont bother with pressure ferments, if I am going to cask with a gravity pour from the secondary 2 to 4 psi with captured gas for filling the vacuum when I pour.


----------

