# Vanilla Beans



## 1974Alby (4/2/14)

Ive done a bit of reading through various threads and it appears the consensus for using vanilla beans is to scrape the seeds from a couple of beans and add them into secondary…some people even advocate chucking the bean pod-casings in there as well. Im keen to give this a go (choc-vanilla porter) but am worried about the possible introduction of bacteria etc from the casings. Is this a risk? Should I soak them in starsan first? 

Interested to hear the opinions of those that have used vanilla beans in their brews.


----------



## NewtownClown (4/2/14)

Pretty sure you will find the bean has been sanitised prior to packaging. And you will be adding it to an environment that is not very conducive to the growth of nasties - pH, C02, alcohol, yeast population, etc

If paranoia won't allow you to chuck it in as is, just soak it overnight in vodka.

I have used the scrapings and the casings twice but was little disappointed with the outcome. Since switching to extract (not essence) the results have been consistent - 1 or 2 teaspoons of extract will deliver the same amount of vanilla aroma/flavour each time as opposed to one or two pods that vary from harvest to harvest and from origin to origin


----------



## TimT (4/2/14)

I don't think I've ever seen a vanilla bean. They are a little hard to come by. So while I'm tempted to use them in a brew I may have to stick with essence or extract in the foreseeable future.

You should be prepared to experiment a little, but since vanilla bean appears in quite a few non-brew recipes it's worth following their advice - many recipes ask you to scrape a vanilla bean in milk which you then gently heat. This suggests to me in brewing vanilla bean may be added after the boil, or you could perhaps even extract a small amount of water or wort and infuse it with vanilla bean that way, to be added to the fermenter, perhaps at high krausen, perhaps at secondary fermentation.


----------



## TimT (4/2/14)

You might try adding the vanilla beans in combination with cloves which, apparently, intensify vanilla flavours (according to my handbook by Amy Stewart I have on, er, hand, 'The Drunken Botanist').

Soaking beans in Starsan? I'd shudder at the thought - if I knew what Starsan was. (I've never used it). To me it sounds akin to doing the sparge with detergent....


----------



## GalBrew (4/2/14)

You can buy vanilla beans at Coles.


----------



## NewtownClown (4/2/14)

The aroma and some flavour tends to be driven off during a boil and through fermentation, so secondary or after primary fermentation is essential. That is pretty much true for most spices. I add bitter orange and coriander for my wits after primary now and find I need a third to half less than in the boil
Another method, and a good way to determine the amount of spice to use is to make a potion out of cheap vodka. Soak the spice(s) for one or two weeks, filter through a coffee filter or doubled-over clean chux, and measure with a graduated syringe or such into 50 ml of the beer a little (1-2ml) at a time until it is just right. You can then scale the volumes up to your batch size.
The potion can also be added at bottling. A good way to top up the spice if it is not adequate


----------



## NewtownClown (4/2/14)

TimT said:


> You might try adding the vanilla beans in combination with cloves which, apparently, intensify vanilla flavours (according to my handbook by Amy Stewart I have on, er, hand, 'The Drunken Botanist').
> 
> Soaking beans in Starsan? I'd shudder at the thought - if I knew what Starsan was. (I've never used it). To me it sounds akin to doing the sparge with detergent....


Starsan is phosphoric acid with a proprietary surfactant combined to make a food industry grade no-rinse sanitiser. Food safe, head safe flavourless, etc. A solution mixed to 2.2pH can be consumed without ill effect.


----------



## 1974Alby (4/2/14)

Star san is a no rinse sanitiser- i dont believe it will leave any detectable flavour, but should kill any bugs hiding on the bean...Heaps of beans for sale on Evil bay and I've already ordered some so will try beans for this brew and maybe experiment with extract if not happy with the result.


----------



## TimT (4/2/14)

_A solution mixed to 2.2pH can be consumed without ill effect._

I'll do that right after I finish my daily dose of petrol...
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/notebook/9121051/clarissa-tans-notebook-is-florence-better-in-fog/

"I also met a man in Perugia who dealt in homeopathic-type treatments, and who prescribed me many remedies. I could make out some of them, even though I don’t speak Italian — _melatonina_, _magnesio_, _lipoic acid_. Then — _petrolio_. In my mind, _petrolio _flourished as a pretty hillside herb. But Mae’s translation revealed it to be petroleum. A lot of people take petrol, the man said, via Mae. He mentioned the Rockefellers. I knew the Rockefellers drilled for oil, I didn’t know they drank it as well. I sniffed at the small bottle of _petrolio _he gave me — it was fuel all right. My instructions were to take several doses each day, five little drops each time."


----------



## indica86 (4/2/14)

http://www.daintreevanilla.com/index.php?s=home <<< good quality Aussie vanilla.


----------



## dicko (4/2/14)

NewtownClown said:


> The aroma and some flavour tends to be driven off during a boil and through fermentation, so secondary or after primary fermentation is essential. That is pretty much true for most spices. I add bitter orange and coriander for my wits after primary now and find I need a third to half less than in the boil
> Another method, and a good way to determine the amount of spice to use is to make a potion out of cheap vodka. Soak the spice(s) for one or two weeks, filter through a coffee filter or doubled-over clean chux, and measure with a graduated syringe or such into 50 ml of the beer a little (1-2ml) at a time until it is just right. You can then scale the volumes up to your batch size.
> The potion can also be added at bottling. A good way to top up the spice if it is not adequate


And the vodka kills anything on the bean.
I have added vanilla beans to the cube and got an infection...not again, Newtown Clowns method is good.


----------



## GalBrew (4/2/14)

TimT said:


> _A solution mixed to 2.2pH can be consumed without ill effect._
> 
> I'll do that right after I finish my daily dose of petrol...
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/notebook/9121051/clarissa-tans-notebook-is-florence-better-in-fog/
> ...


Sorry to go OT, but what you are saying is that most homebrewers are sanitising their gear with petrol?

Starsan is food grade, no rinse. What do you sanitise your gear with if you have never heard of Starsan out of curiosity?


----------



## TimT (4/2/14)

I was just joking around GalBrew. Speaking of which, sanitising in my house is kind of a joke, full stop. However, I rinse with detergent where possible, boil what I can, and use a sodium metabiusulphate solution. (I used to boil all my bottles, and that seemed to do the trick, though it's also incredibly time consuming and now I've switched to just using the metabiusulphate - time will tell whether that method is better.)


----------



## TimT (4/2/14)

Popped into Coles just then and no vanilla beans in the spice aisle, at any rate. I'm sure you're right that Coles do stock them but there's probably no great demand for them out my way.


----------



## GalBrew (4/2/14)

TimT said:


> Popped into Coles just then and no vanilla beans in the spice aisle, at any rate. I'm sure you're right that Coles do stock them but there's probably no great demand for them out my way.


I guess not all Coles' are the same? Mine has two different brands, you can get a Hoyts vanilla bean (they are cheaper but a touch dry for my taste) or Masterfoods banded bean. The Masterfoods ones look much 'jucier' for want of a better term, and have a great flavour. They just aren't that cheap, I hate to think how much it would cost for a 20L batch.

IGA are also pretty good at stocking vanilla beans if you have one in the area.


----------



## TimT (4/2/14)

I'm sure other folks have had issues with different Woolies and Coles shops too. I'd probably be more likely to find the vanilla beans in the supermarket aisle if I lived closer in to the city centre (Melbourne)... that said, the choices on offer at the supermarkets aren't always very attractive - spices are generally sold in small quantities, at marked up prices, and often aren't very fresh. For instance you can get a small bag of two or three cinnamon sticks in my local Coles whereas if you went to nearby Indian markets you'd probably be able to find a bag of 20 cinnamon sticks for a reasonable price.

I reckon warehouses are the best bet - there's a great spice warehouse in Brunswick west for us who live in the northern suburbs of Melbourne - can't remember which street (maybe Victoria? Or is it Albert?) which has got buckets and buckets of spices. Might go there soon to get some vanilla bean!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/2/14)

Phosphoric acid ( star-san ) is the main ingrediant it Coke. Maybe you could soak your vanilla in Coke.


----------



## indica86 (4/2/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Phosphoric acid ( star-san ) is the main ingrediant it Coke. Maybe you could soak your vanilla in Coke.


Or just use Vanilla Coke.


----------



## NewtownClown (4/2/14)

or vanilla vodka?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip (4/2/14)

NewtownClown said:


> or vanilla vodka?


When I did a white choc kolsch before Christmas, I soaked the cacao nibs and vanilla beans in vodka (vodka releases the nibs flavors). I don't think it enhanced much. The Smirnoff vanilla vodka is pretty yerk on its own.


----------



## Tex083 (4/2/14)

I spake 2 beans in 700mls of Absolute Vodka and drank it on ice was amazing!
If your in Brunswick look up Savour Chocolate and Patisserie School, they sell beans by the 100g bags about $50 last time I checked but you got over 50 beans so works out cheaper than Coles.
I would split the bean in 2 and soak in Vodka and add to finished wort, maybe at the bulk prime stage.
The vodka will turn brown but the taste will be there.


----------



## tipsy (5/2/14)

You can get them on ebay relatively cheap

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vanilla-Beans-6-x-12cm-Grade-New-Guinea-/301082262282?pt=AU_Food&hash=item4619e6bb0a


----------



## 1974Alby (24/2/14)

so I ended up scraping out 5 beans and putting them with their cut -up casings into about 1/2 a cup of 12yo Canadian Club (dont drink vodka and wasnt going to buy it for this)...that will now soak for a week or two and rack the choc-porter onto it in secondary....Dont think the canadian club will add much in this small volume, but if it does, so much the better!


----------



## LiquidGold (10/4/14)

Pretty keen to hear how the vanilla canadian club turned out. Any updates?


----------



## ScubaSteve15 (11/8/14)

What brand of extract have people used?


----------



## 1974Alby (13/8/14)

a belated update...the choc-vanilla porter I made using 250g cocoa powder in the boil and 5 vanilla beans soaked in canadian club in secondary was one of my greatest brewing triumphs and despite trying to make it last, I simply couldn't resist it and the keg was inhaled rather quickly. Really nicely balanced levels of chocolate and vanilla...Unfortunatley I let this success go to my head and upped the cocoa to 375g on the next attempt...Definately a case of less is more. The taste was described by some as Quick! still have half a keg of it cos while its drinkable, its just not very appealing!


----------



## ScubaSteve15 (9/9/14)

Update, added 1 teaspoon of vanilla extract to the secondary of a coopers Robochoc kit. No vanilla aroma or flavour, more next time.


----------



## TheWiggman (19/4/16)

I've got a vanilla bourbon stout fermenting at present with the following (13l) -
3.150 kg pale
0.705 kg Vienna
0.320 kg Brown malt
0.225 kg chocolate malt
0.125 kg dark crystal

Northern Brewer for bittering, Challenger late to 36 IBU. Fermenting with West Yorkshire Ale.

1 vanilla pod, added at 4 days for 1 week
230ml of bourbon added at bottling.

Now the query is: I found a vanilla pod left over from my wife's cooking. It's in a nice, small PET canister. Based on the above info I cleanded it, sanitised it, then filled it with bourbon and dropped the pod in to soak. I'll add this tomorrow as the ferment is slowing down.
Is this the right approach? I've never done the vodka soak thing so I assume bourbon will perform the same way.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/4/16)

Cant see an issue, just soak the pod in a small amount of bourbon for a bit then throw the whole lot in the fermenter.

Bourbon should kill any nasties but wont add any flavour to the beer


----------



## Black n Tan (19/4/16)

Personally I would add the tincture at bottling or kegging. No reason to let the yeast drag down the vanilla goodness. A few extra days in the bourbon will extract more flavour IMO, so another reason to hold off.


----------



## TheWiggman (20/4/16)

Duly noted. I think I'll chuck it in with the bulk prime and bourbon.


----------

