# Filtering



## melinda (4/12/09)

G'day men,
I have just kegged 3 kegs of beer. All had polyclar added to the fermenter when the temp. was dropped. One keg was filtered and the other two were not. There is no difference in the clarity of the beers of each keg. What has happened? Am I wasting my time?
Cadbury


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## Tony (4/12/09)

obviously 

I prefer to not add stuff to my beer to clear it so i just pump it through the filter.

Run with what works best i say!

cheers


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## bradsbrew (4/12/09)

I now add a teaspoon of gelatine dissolved in 40ml (approx) of boiling water to the keg and fill. The beers are as bright and clear as a commercial after a couple of days and a couple of pints. No need for filters at my brewery.

Brad


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## dr K (4/12/09)

I think 40ml was a mis-type, however, ......oh and the water should be hot not boiling.
Most of my beeers drop pretty bright, pretty quickly.
I just use crash chilling and gelatine. When I use a highly flocculent yeast such as 1968 they drop very bright.
They will never be as bright as filtered beer though.

K


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## browndog (4/12/09)

> They will never be as bright as filtered beer though.



Big call that one. I don't believe it for a second. Good brewing practices produce bright beer, filtered or not.

cheers

Browndog


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## bradsbrew (4/12/09)

browndog said:


> Big call that one. I don't believe it for a second. Good brewing practices produce bright beer, filtered or not.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Absolutely Tony.


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## bradsbrew (4/12/09)

dr K said:


> I think 40ml was a mis-type, however, ......oh and the water should be hot not boiling.
> Most of my beeers drop pretty bright, pretty quickly.
> I just use crash chilling and gelatine. When I use a highly flocculent yeast such as 1968 they drop very bright.
> They will never be as bright as filtered beer though.
> ...



K. I used the (approx) for a reason not a typo. A shot glass filled by a just finished boiling kettle added to an empty glass with a teaspoon of gelatine and stirred to dissolve tip into empty keg. If needed rinse glass with half a shot glass of same kettle water. Yes crash chilling also is done. But I do have a beer on tap at the moment I would like to compare to a filtered one.

Brad


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## Tony (4/12/09)

ferment..... crash chill for a for a couple days on primary...... dump in keg and pump through filter into another.

I can get them clear stuffing around with additives but an hours work is worth beer like this.


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## browndog (4/12/09)

Tony said:


> ferment..... crash chill for a for a couple days on primary...... dump in keg and pump through filter into another.
> 
> I can get them clear stuffing around with additives but an hours work is worth beer like this.




Or you can wait a week and achieve the same thing with no effort what so ever.


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## Tony (4/12/09)

Mate......... waiting a week IS effort 

I cont like horse hoof and i hate the first few in the keg being full of shit. 

I filter 50 liter batches and now more than ever its the best way FOR ME to do it.... cause i canr lift the kegs in the kegorator..... so i have to pump them into the clean keg in the freezer under pressure. Might as well have a filter in the way 

I have made plenty clear beers before i had a filter. I juts find it more convenient now days and cant be fucked mixing crap in the beer and waiting. Primary to glass in 1 hr is a great thing.

Cheers

Edit..... live with the crap spelling..... im tired. Im noe knockind the no filter method (did ross start that?) I just fint it easier to filter with the gear i have. and after seeing some of andrew from QLD's bers........man they are clear!


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## bradsbrew (4/12/09)

Not the best pics but they do show a clear beer at night. Not having ago at anyones methods, but to say one will not be as good as the other is a stretch.


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## browndog (4/12/09)

Tony said:


> Mate......... waiting a week IS effort
> 
> I cont like horse hoof and i hate the first few in the keg being full of shit.
> 
> ...



Horses for courses mate, I just think when someone states that you can't make a beer as bright as a filtered beer (finings or not) it need to be addressed.

cheers

Browndog


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## dr K (4/12/09)

> Horses for courses mate, I just think when someone states that you can't make a beer as bright as a filtered beer (finings or not) it need to be addressed.



No....I said _my_ beers, as bright as they might be will never be as bright as (my) filtered beers.
When I filtered beers my process was similar to that now.
Chill to somewhere around 3-8 degrees, add 5gm of gelatine to 300ml 70ishC water, stir to dissolve, maybe let sit for a minute, chuck it into the beer, drop temp to just sub-zero and hold for 48 hours or more.
I then filtered the beer, the filter had a more than just noticeable amount of crap in it and the beer was crystal bright.
The beer was also stripped somewhat.
Now, these days I follow the same process but omit the filter, the beer drops bright, but not, as I noted, for my beers, as the filtered version. Of course it could be that the observed crud left in the filter is under normal circumstances totally invisible.
Its quite simple really, take an unfiltered bright beer at zero C , filter it and observe the crud, the compare it to the crud left in the filter after a filtered bright beer is filtered at zero C.
Of course it goes without saying that if you filter your beer at higher temp than you drink it at you are wasting your time.
In precis: I do not filter, I produce bright beer, the beer I produce is not as and never will be as bright as the same beer filtered and this can be proven by far better methods than one eye observing.

K


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## Thirsty Boy (5/12/09)

I'm in the same boat as DrK - 

You might be able to make a beer as bright by waiting as by filtering... but I can't. I can get close if I use gelatin and a highly flocculent yeast, bloody close, but not quite the same. And nowhere near the same if I am using a more powdery yeast.

I have a lager at the moment that has been in the keg, racked onto gelatin, for 4-5 weeks. Its fine, nice and bright (but not quite perfectly so) ... unless I happen to pull my keggerator out from the wall to open the lid and fiddle with a connection or change a line or whatever. Then its a couple of glasses of cloudy beer and a days waiting till the damn thing runs bright again.

On the other hand - the cream ale sitting next to it made with 1272 and treated exactly the same way, is damn near diamond right and stays that way.

So I think it really depends on what yeasts you use and how you are going to treat the beer afterwards. I've been trying to "not" filter recently to see how it goes & I'm pretty sure that in my brewing practice at least... no matter what I do the unfiltered beers don't have quite the polished brightness that the filtered ones do - In certain circumstances they are pretty damn close, in others its bloody hopeless and cloudy beer makes me angry.

For the OP .. the question is whether the beer you are making looks like Tony's. If it does, then filtering is a waste of time because you are making clear beer without it.... if it doesn't, then the problem is that your filtering isn't working properly, cause that's how it _should_ look.

TB


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## bcp (5/12/09)

What do you filter with? Can you use a filter without kegging?


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## A3k (5/12/09)

Hi bcp,
Most people use filters like the ones from beerbelly or craftbrewer.

I have the one from beerbelly, and whilst it's good, it doesn't have a bleed valve but i wish it did.

I keg, but i was given 6 beers from boilerboy that had been filtered prior to bottling. They were bright as hell with only a very thin layer of sediment on the bottom. But they were in my fridge for a long time before that.
So yes you can, but the priming of the bottles is going to introduce some more yeast.


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## Pumpy (5/12/09)

I filter all pale beers now its just part of my process, yes there are other ways of getting a similar results, which involve more lagering and kegs which I havent got .

I dont filter more than 23 litres on a filter before i change it .

I have my filtering down to a fine art , some people give up too quickly if they dont get good results, it must be someting to do with their equipment or technique or preparation .

As with all brewing thier are a few things you need to know to get better results .

Its all been documented in posts on the site, people just chhoose to igorn or not try them .

one of the tricks that helped me was a bit of keg grease on the top and bottom of the filter cartridge ,I had ingnored that idea for ages until I tried it and the difference was fantastic.

Pumpy


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## Pumpy (5/12/09)

I always feel people try to put too cloudy beer through the filter you have to help the filter as much as you can

Still cold chill

dump the first half pint that has heavy yeast in the tap every little thing you can 

Pumpy


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## BoilerBoy (5/12/09)

Pumpy said:


> I always feel people try to put too cloudy beer through the filter you have to help the filter as much as you can
> 
> Still cold chill
> 
> ...



Good on ya pumpy!

You comverted me a long while ago now (nearly 2 years I think?) and I still only bottle.

Like you I still help the filter by conditioning beer in the fridge ales usually 2 weeks and lagers 4 weeks and using gelatine to drop yeast out.
I like to treat it as if the filter was optional and a final polish and not just a way of producing faster beer.

BB


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## Pumpy (5/12/09)

BoilerBoy said:


> I like to treat it as if the filter was optional and a final polish and not just a way of producing faster beer.
> 
> BB



Thats a great way to describe it Boiler boy 

Pumpy


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## Thirsty Boy (6/12/09)

funny - I don't worry about it. I cc the beer alright - but stir polyclar into the fermenter a little while before I filter and have no qualms at all about stirring up a bit of the yeast. I normally aim to have the last of the relatively clear beer running into the filter as the keg becomes full... but in a pinch if my volume is a little low - I'll tip the fermenter on a big angle and filter the cloudy stuff right on (or even in) the yeast cake till it wont run anymore - If I'm really desperate for volume I will then run C02 into the filter housing to push the half liter or so of beer that's trapped in the sludge in there.

Sure, I try not to have it happen that way ... but thats about convenience more than anything else. The beer filters faster and the filter is easier to clean if I am running relatively clear beer through - they still filter perfectly well and are bright as sunshine even if I have pushed half the yeast cake through the filter.

Mind you it took me a shitload of stuffing around and the death of three filter cartridges before I worked out how to get it right every time - I had a lot of issues with the canister not sealing the ends of the filter properly and I was getting bypass... the beer would be diamond bright sometimes (when it decided to seal properly) and sometimes it would be clearer - and sometimes there was hardly any difference. Drove me nuts.

That why I said that the OP should be comparing to Tony's beer. _Thats_ what's meant to happen - if its not that clear, then something is not working the way its supposed to. If its only that clear sometimes... then something is going wrong sporadically. If it is that clear but your filter clogs up fast or goes slow or is just generally a pain in the arse - thats because you need a bit more experience to get your process down pat like Pumpy has and to be honest; also because filtering is just one of those things where you can do everything right and sometimes it just gives you grief. Mostly it should be pretty easy though.


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## MarkBastard (6/12/09)

Maybe I'm missing something, but who cares what the beer looks like anyway?


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## Barley Belly (6/12/09)

Clear smear

We are drinking home brew here guys

I pay good money for yeast, so I'm gunna get my monies worth by drinkin some of it

If you want clear beer you can always buy some Pure Blonde


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## Pumpy (7/12/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but who cares what the beer looks like anyway?



Mark , If you dont care what your beer looks like thats fine, it did not bother me for years if it my beer was inconsistantly clear .

But we all go to a lot of trouble to ensure we have a nice flavour ,a good head , the right carbonation,good attenuation , so why should we not go to a little extra trouble to give it a nice sparkling finish , you would not expect to drink too many commercial examples of beer that are not sparkling , because the yeast that is in suspension adds some way to the flavour, good or bad .

Actually my biggest critic of the presentation of my beer was SWMBO and she rarely drank it ,but always said its cloudy!!!!
It was that challenge that made me pick up my game and I feel my beers presentation has improved to a degree, where I feel proud to present a clear beer to my mates .


Pumpy


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## BjornJ (7/12/09)

Pumpy,
the grease on the bottom and top of the filter, is that to create a seal against the filter housing so beer can't just go around the filter?

(I don't filter, only interested in learning how it works for later if I ever get to kegging)

thanks
Bjorn


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

Just a quick question.

Does anyone seem to have clogging issues with thier craftbrewer filter? I tried filtering my RyePA lastnight and ended up having to leave it to filter overnight via gravity to awake this morning still with 5 L in the bottom of the fermenter and nothing in the out hose of the filter connected to the keg. 

I assumed it was just positive pressure in the keg stopping the flow so i removed the disconnect and still had no beer flowing from the filter housing. There was a decent amount of yeast in the housing, but id wouldnt think this would stem the flow completly and im just wondering if anyone else has experienced this or had similar issues? I did notice my last beer to filter was abit slower than usual but it didnt stop short.

Pumpy, i know you gravity feed yours, have you had any similar experiences? What about my cleaning method for the filter below?

I give the filter a decent rinse after use, plunge thru a nappisan solution in the housing and repeat with a fresh solution until they come up bright white, rinse again and then soak in nappisan overnight, rinse the next day, air dry and store. There doesn't appear to be any matter left over in the filter either. looks almost brand new (atleast to the eye).

Hmmmm... <_<


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## A3k (7/12/09)

Hi Fourstar,
Not sure why your filter would've stopped cos i don't know your process.

However, once they've stopped, they can loose their syphon. If this happens, the gravity feed won't work until it's forced again by pressurising the upper keg. 

Cheers,
Al


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## MarkBastard (7/12/09)

Pumpy said:


> Mark , If you dont care what your beer looks like thats fine, it did not bother me for years if it my beer was inconsistantly clear .



All fair points Pumpy. I've never used any finings and I get very clear beer after crash chilling and then having the beer in the keg for a few weeks. Fair enough it does take a while for it to go bright but that just seems sort of natural to me I guess. But I don't drink a keg a week or anything either so I guess that's a point as well. I'm pretty patient.


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

A3k said:


> Hi Fourstar,
> Not sure why your filter would've stopped cos i don't know your process.
> However, once they've stopped, they can loose their syphon. If this happens, the gravity feed won't work until it's forced again by pressurising the upper keg.
> Cheers,
> Al



Sory, im gravity filling from the fementer @ around 5 ft high on a bookshelf/bar. This connects to the filter at around 4ft high which then connects to a beer out post on a keg at floor height. To enable the constant flow of beer i simply leave the pressure relief valve open on the recieving keg with a tissue over the opening to inhibit airflow into the valve (overly cautious i know). 

Same thing goes for the fermenter, i remove the 'kitten lock' and cover with a tissue so there is essentially no blockage of airflow and it isn't a syphon so to speak, just a constant gravity feed of beer. The only real resistance point is the filter itself and yeast buildup. Its almost like my filter gets a "stuck sparge"! Haha!


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## A3k (7/12/09)

Ahh, i see.
I use to use that method too (without the tissues), but didn't have alot of success with it. I think i had similar issues to what you're having. 
I've been using two kegs in a closed system lately which as been working well.
I can't really see any reason why one would work better that the other though, so i probably fixed other areas of the process at the same time.

Cheers,
Al


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

A3k said:


> Ahh, i see.
> I use to use that method too (without the tissues), but didn't have alot of success with it. I think i had similar issues to what you're having.
> I've been using two kegs in a closed system lately which as been working well.
> I can't really see any reason why one would work better that the other though, so i probably fixed other areas of the process at the same time.
> ...



Hmmm, i dont know whats going wrong. I just saw on the craftbrewer description you can run into filtering issues with gravity feeding but im only doing 18L to a keg. You would think it could filter that amount pretty easily, maybe not.


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## drsmurto (7/12/09)

I like to think my beers are bright and they are pretty good.

But then i started getting a few beers from boilerboy.

Now i know what a bright HB really looks like!


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## gibbocore (7/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Hmmm, i dont know whats going wrong. I just saw on the craftbrewer description you can run into filtering issues with gravity feeding but im only doing 18L to a keg. You would think it could filter that amount pretty easily, maybe not.



i'd like to know more about this as i have had the same issue in the past, it is very frustrating as the beer tends to warm up after a while also inhibiting the filter efficacy.

i have found that the height has a lot to do with it in my tinkerings but i haven't found a consistent solution.


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## Ross (7/12/09)

I wouldn't recommend filtering a Rye beer by gravity, the beers are very viscous & as the filter starts to clog you'll have a nightmare time, as Fourstar found out. I would only gravity filter pretty clear beers, as it's not worth the headaches IMO if the flow stops mid way.

Cheers Ross


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

Ross said:


> I wouldn't recommend filtering a Rye beer by gravity, the beers are very viscous & as the filter starts to clog you'll have a nightmare time, as Fourstar found out. I would only gravity filter pretty clear beers, as it's not worth the headaches IMO if the flow stops mid way.
> Cheers Ross



Hmm interesting, the FG of the RyePA was 1.014 and only 15% rye. The beer i filtered prior to this was a TTL clone made with 100% Golden promise. It started to slow quite abit towads the end Ross. Took around 1 & 1/2 hrs to finish the last 7L or so. The 1st 10 odd L where done in 20-30 mins. Usual filter time for me is 1/2 hour - hour.

So your suggestion is to crash chill the beer every time before filtering via gravity?


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## Supra-Jim (7/12/09)

F*, i gravity filter and i crash for atleast 2 days prior everything. Every little bit helps, and my gravity feed filtering takes around 40mins.

Cheers SJ

edit: sorry that's meant to be 4*, not F***star!!!


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## Ross (7/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Hmm interesting, the FG of the RyePA was 1.014 and only 15% rye. The beer i filtered prior to this was a TTL clone made with 100% Golden promise. It started to slow quite abit towads the end Ross. Took around 1 & 1/2 hrs to finish the last 7L or so. The 1st 10 odd L where done in 20-30 mins. Usual filter time for me is 1/2 hour - hour.
> 
> So your suggestion is to crash chill the beer every time before filtering via gravity?



Nothing to do with FG Fourstar, the Rye produces a far more viscous wort, even though it attenuates the same.
I have a Rye beer (60%) at home at the moment that's like sump oil, with a FG of 1012.

Yes, I always crash chill & remove what yeast I can (usually min 48hrs). I rarely gravity feed, preferring the reliability of using my peristaltic pump, or alternatively CO2.


cheers Ross


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## komodo (7/12/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but who cares what the beer looks like anyway?



I know others have chipped in on this but for me having a good looking clear beer is adding that finesse that seperates stereotypical "home brew" from craft beer brewed at home to the average megaswill drinking freind who wouldnt be caught drinking a "home brew" beer. 
That may not be a concern to you but for me I talk about brewing with freinds and I want to prove that my beer is well and truely ahead of "home brew" as they normally know it (hazy kits fermented with stock yeasts at fluctuating temps around 25 degrees racked into bottles individually primed with missmatched carbonation levels). Filtering and thus presenting a crystal clear beer helps me achive this goal.

Obviously theres different ways to obtain these results through filtering or other methods and that is upto the brewer, but for me I like to filter.


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

Ross said:


> Nothing to do with FG Fourstar, the Rye produces a far more viscous wort, even though it attenuates the same.
> I have a Rye beer (60%) at home at the moment that's like sump oil, with a FG of 1012.
> Yes, I always crash chill & remove what yeast I can (usually min 48hrs). I rarely gravity feed, preferring the reliability of using my peristaltic pump, or alternatively CO2.
> cheers Ross



Yeah, understandable. I'll see what happens when i filter my Black IPA at the end of the week. Due for a dryhopping tonight.


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## jayse (7/12/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Maybe I'm missing something, but who cares what the beer looks like anyway?



The comment 'who cares....' seems to be something someone happy with any old average beer would say.



Fourstar said:


> So your suggestion is to crash chill the beer every time before filtering via gravity?



You should be filtering cold beer yes, the colder the better but it should be at least the coldest temp at which it is to be served at.


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

jayse said:


> You should be filtering cold beer yes, the colder the better but it should be at least the coldest temp at which it is to be served at.



And the benifit of doing this when filtering from the fermenter is? (besides yeast flocculation in the fermenter) as im not concerned with loss of CO2 in soltution.


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## Supra-Jim (7/12/09)

4*, i could be wrong, but i think the additional benefit of chilling the beer (at or below serving temp) prior to filtering is that you stand a better chance of removing the proteins responsible for chill haze. As these proteins dissapear back into solution at higher temps. This is also based on a 1 micron filter, i think anything up to 5 micron will still remove yeast, but 1 micron stands a better chance of capturing the chill haze proteins.

The main benefit of pre-chilling the beer being you're dropping as much yeast prior to filtering to make it easier on the filter. 

Cheers SJ


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## jayse (7/12/09)

One reason beer is generally filtered cold is as supra-jim mentioned, any material that can cause chill haze can come out of solution when cold, hense causing a haze in cold beer. When its out of solution it can be removed by filter or additives.
So in this instance you need the chill haze to form to beable to remove it.
I am sure doing it warm will work for yeast and other solids though.
Still I am sure most people would advise beer be cold for whatever processing you want to do to it.


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## Pumpy (7/12/09)

BjornJ said:


> Pumpy,
> the grease on the bottom and top of the filter, is that to create a seal against the filter housing so beer can't just go around the filter?
> 
> (I don't filter, only interested in learning how it works for later if I ever get to kegging)
> ...



Bjorn , The keg grease does stop your lid dragging your filter around and risking a possible tear and it does improve the seal to stop beer going around the filter ,out of sight.

Rubber need lubrication as it has a 'high coefficient of friction' !!!! ( now I will be mis quoted on this ) 

Pumpy


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## Pumpy (7/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Just a quick question.
> 
> Does anyone seem to have clogging issues with thier craftbrewer filter? I tried filtering my RyePA lastnight and ended up having to leave it to filter overnight via gravity to awake this morning still with 5 L in the bottom of the fermenter and nothing in the out hose of the filter connected to the keg.
> 
> ...



Fourstar yes I did occasionaly have a problem but since I 

chill for a few days 
run the first half pint 
dont filter more than 20-23 per filter ( I have two filters )
grease the top and bottom of the filter 

It seems to work for me 

Most of my beeer these days are pale beers rarely do dark beer 

Pumpy


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## Fourstar (7/12/09)

jayse said:


> One reason beer is generally filtered cold is as supra-jim mentioned, any material that can cause chill haze can come out of solution when cold, hense causing a haze in cold beer. When its out of solution it can be removed by filter or additives.
> So in this instance you need the chill haze to form to beable to remove it.
> I am sure doing it warm will work for yeast and other solids though.
> Still I am sure most people would advise beer be cold for whatever processing you want to do to it.



Ive always believed this would be the case for haze forming protiens/tannins. As long as they are 'formed' you should be able to filter them out, or atleast some of them. Thanks for the explanation. :icon_cheers: 



Pumpy said:


> Fourstar yes I did occasionaly have a problem but since I
> Chill for a few days
> run the first half pint
> dont filter more than 20-23 per filter ( I have two filters )
> ...



Thanks for the info pumpy. 

I must admit i have been lazy over the past couple of batches. Prior to filtering i used to always crash chill for 24-48 hours. Now ive just been stuck in the rut of "meh, the filter will do it for me". Looks like that might have been a mistake.

I'll see how the Black IPA goes with a crash chill and filtered. Not that i will see much of the result, atleast it will be 'cloudless' :lol:


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## Pumpy (7/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Ive always believed this would be the case for haze forming protiens/tannins. As long as they are 'formed' you should be able to filter them out, or atleast some of them. Thanks for the explanation. :icon_cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Fourstar as Jayse says 

When you chill the beer real cold ,protein molecules become larger and materialise as a Haze ,have the beer as cold as you can when filtering 0C and you will trap the bigger proteins .

Its a few little things that make the filtering work ,but they are all important ,like I say give the filter cartridge as much help as you can and you will get the results you desire .

pumpy


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## Tony (7/12/09)

I honestly believe a bright clear beer... filtered or not..... will taste better.

I taste my beer before and after i filter it and i can notice a yeasty earthy taste in the beer prior to filtering. Its usually fairly clear by the time i filter it having been crash chilled and conditioned for a few days to a week. Once its been filtered it's maltier and hoppier, probably because there are less undesirobles in there to hog the flavour and aroma duties.

break and yeast dont taste good and they are usually what clouds the beer. Removing them with either finnings or filtering is a good thing. It has certanly improved my beers.

I am even thinking of filtering beers i am going to bottle to clean them up and then introduce a bit of fresh yeast for carbonation.

cheers


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## SpillsMostOfIt (7/12/09)

Tony said:


> I honestly believe a bright clear beer... filtered or not..... will taste better.



It's true. And not just because I read it on the interwebs...  

For ages I resisted clearing my beers. Now I try to use time and gravity but have no issue with filtering (apart from the hassle). I reckon if you want your beer to taste as good as you can get it, you will get it as clear as you can.


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## Thirsty Boy (7/12/09)

a plus from me on the flavour front as well - to me, cloudy beer (from yeast) just doesn't taste as good as clear beer. I want my beer pretty, clean and malty.. and to my palate and eyes, yeast haze reduces all these things.

Its also about "finishing the job" properly - you knock up a bookshelf in your garage and it would hold your books off the floor just fine if you didn't... but you whack a coat of varnish on it anyway. My mildly hazy beer tastes just fine, but I am prouder of it and want to give it to my friends more, if its been finished off properly and shines all purdy like when you hold it up to the light.


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## Tony (7/12/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> My mildly hazy beer tastes just fine, but I am prouder of it and want to give it to my friends more, if its been finished off properly and shines all purdy like when you hold it up to the light.



Amen!

When i give people a beer....... the first thing most do... knowing its home brew, is hold it up to the light and look at it. Even regular drinkers from my taps like my brother or dad. They check it out..... then smell it, then take the plunge and taste it.

The satifaction of the comment...... WOW! Its clear....... and knowing its gunna taste as good as it looks is worth the effort taken.

cheers

Edit....... i filter all beers... even stouts. Im not after clarity in a stout, its the cleaner flavours of the clear beer.


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## bradsbrew (7/12/09)

Tony said:


> I honestly believe a bright clear beer... filtered or not..... will taste better.
> 
> I taste my beer before and after i filter it and i can notice a yeasty earthy taste in the beer prior to filtering. Its usually fairly clear by the time i filter it having been crash chilled and conditioned for a few days to a week. Once its been filtered it's maltier and hoppier, probably because there are less undesirobles in there to hog the flavour and aroma duties.
> 
> ...


Tony it would be interesting to see the results of two bottles from the same batch one filtered and one unfiltered to see if the result is a highly noticeable one. 

Cheers


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## Cocko (7/12/09)

I have filtered 5 kegs now and I agree with ALL of Tony's posts 100%!!

If you filter 1 micron, would there not be enough yeast left to bottle condition?


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## Tony (7/12/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Tony it would be interesting to see the results of two bottles from the same batch one filtered and one unfiltered to see if the result is a highly noticeable one.
> 
> Cheers



I have!

The pic i posted earlier is of a Classic American Pilsner. I bottled about 10 bottles cold and ran the rest into a keg and filtered it.

The beers in the bottle were great....... almost took out the Bitter and Twisted comp a year or 2 ago. It was however a tad cloudy and not as clean compared to the filtered beer. The hops were brighter in the filtered beer and i recon if i had of filtered to bottle and introduces some fresh yeast...... it would have done better.

cheers


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## komodo (7/12/09)

Cocko said:


> If you filter 1 micron, would there not be enough yeast left to bottle condition?



I was under the assumption that there is but it takes longer to condition?


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## bradsbrew (7/12/09)

Tony said:


> I have!
> 
> The pic i posted earlier is of a Classic American Pilsner. I bottled about 10 bottles cold and ran the rest into a keg and filtered it.
> 
> ...



Well now you've got my attention on the filter and introduce bottle condition yeast. I may just have to try filtering so i can judge for my own tastes.
On another note if you add the fresh yeast do you still add a priming sugar??


Cheers


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## Kingy (7/12/09)

chill very cold for a few days,filter and force carb and drink clear beer on the same day lol thats why i filter its no real hassle either im still racking to a keg it just passes through a filteron the way. Presentation is the key!!


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## kenworthy (7/12/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Well now you've got my attention on the filter and introduce bottle condition yeast. I may just have to try filtering so i can judge for my own tastes.
> On another note if you add the fresh yeast do you still add a priming sugar??
> 
> 
> Cheers



Yeah still need priming sugar ,Ive filtered and ended up with no carbonation and had to re yeast each bottle so I reckon its best to filter and reyeast saves mucking around later


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## hughman666 (7/12/09)

a good beer is definitely a good looking beer  

having said that, i have 3 taps and 5 kegs so at any point in time 2 kegs are chilling away, clearing up before serving. if theyre a kolsch or pale ale, they will also have been in secondary for an extra 7 days.

dark ales and weizens/wits dont get racked though, just extra time in the keg...

so i dont filter but still end up with a clear beer - but it does take an extra 1-4 weeks...


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## SpillsMostOfIt (9/12/09)

I've bottle-primed filtered beer without adding yeast and it works fine (for me). Perhaps my 1micron filter didn't work well enough...  

I am just about to finish a keg of Coopers kit beer (the pressures of life... *sigh*) fermented with the kit yeast and it has been in a cold fridge for about a month. I don't have a pic, but I assure you that it is as bright as a beer can get. I did not filter it (well, why would you; it's a *kit* beer). Best kit beer I've ever had. Not good enough to sway me from proper beer, but...


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

Hmm ok ive been filtering my *Chilled *Black IPA still seem to be running into issues. Its been filtering for an hour now, this is how long it usually takes me to filter a whole batch and it came to a grinding halt around 3-4L in, so far its only 1/2 way filtered and an hour into it..... CRAWLING.

Is there a possibilty my filter cartridge is stuffed? I cleaned the bejeebus out of it after the Rye beer but it went like a rocket for the 1st few L and now its almost halted.... <_<


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

Hmm... 40 mins later and its moved 1 cm.....

Any takers for WTF is wrong? For a filter to not be able to handle 18L of beer all of a sudden seems abit strange let alone get stuck 5L into it! Ive NEVER had to chill it ordo anything funky when gravity filtering it from the fermenter 'pumpy style' before. It goes great guns for the 1st 10 mins then as soon as i see bubbles begin to form in the out post of the filter, i know its over. :angry: 

Somone, PLEAASSSEEEEE save me!


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## TonyC (10/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Hmm... 40 mins later and its moved 1 cm.....
> 
> Any takers for WTF is wrong? For a filter to not be able to handle 18L of beer all of a sudden seems abit strange let alone get stuck 5L into it! Ive NEVER had to chill it ordo anything funky when gravity filtering it from the fermenter 'pumpy style' before. It goes great guns for the 1st 10 mins then as soon as i see bubbles begin to form in the out post of the filter, i know its over. :angry:
> 
> Somone, PLEAASSSEEEEE save me!



Is it possible it has a vacuum in the filter, and releasing the pressure slightly on the bleed valve on the top will start the flow again.

Regards Tony


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

TonyC said:


> Is it possible it has a vacuum in the filter, and releasing the pressure slightly on the bleed valve on the top will start the flow again.
> 
> Regards Tony



Nope, not the case. I've just been farting around, tried to run the beer out directly into the opening of the keg rather than the post and nothing. Even pushing 50 kpa of CO2 into the IN on the filter and it still doesn't even create enough force to push the beer out (and no there are not any leaks.)

I have just dismantled, drained the filter and attempted to fill again from the fermenter from scratch. The filter is that blocked it won't even allow the beer from the fermenter to push its way in. :angry: 

I think my filter must be stuffed/clogged to the clappers and is probably creating a massive infection point on my beers as the past 3 beers have been really difficult to filter. All I can picture is billions of dead yeasties, protein and trub stuck in my filter even when it appears as clean/white as fresh linen!

Is filtering even supposed to be this hard, as the 1st 3 where simple!?! To have to replace a $70 filter cartridge after just a handful of filtered beers seems ridiculous! What an absolute pain in the arse!


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## Pumpy (10/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Hmm... 40 mins later and its moved 1 cm.....
> 
> Any takers for WTF is wrong? For a filter to not be able to handle 18L of beer all of a sudden seems abit strange let alone get stuck 5L into it! Ive NEVER had to chill it ordo anything funky when gravity filtering it from the fermenter 'pumpy style' before. It goes great guns for the 1st 10 mins then as soon as i see bubbles begin to form in the out post of the filter, i know its over. :angry:
> 
> Somone, PLEAASSSEEEEE save me!



Fourstar ,
Your filter should handle the 18 litres of beer in 20 mins .

I would suggest you are sucking in air into your system somewhere , I found I had to put some Teflon tape on the screw lid of the housing , to ensure a really good seal .

My filter is about three years old and still going well , It is a pity you cant post a picture of your set up Fourstar so we can see if there looks anything out of order .

If you could not push it through with 50KPA of CO2 that suprises me .

It is important to have it chilled but I somehow dont think that is going to solve your problem .

Pumpy


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

I can post a pic, i have jsut gone thru cleaning and backflushing my filter and sanitising, in 20 mins its done around 2 inches more from the fermenter (say 4L~) and has dropped to a crawl. The reason why you see bubbles it not because of a leak but because the flow rate from the OUT post has dropped to a trickle. Hence the reason why when i was filling earlier from the fermenter i couldnt even gravity feed any in due to the filter being overly clogged and not allowing any gas out!

This is the setup




This is the slow trickle.


Off to dinner, i'll measure how much it does in that period!


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## NickB (10/12/09)

I had the same issue recently that I could not remedy. Filtered a version of Doc's Yardglass Session Lite, (I gravity Filter) then backflushed the filter, pulled out the cartridge, and dumped in some sanitizer for 10 mins while I prepped a batch of Aussie Dark Ale. That beer stopped about 5L in and was taking more than an hour, so I abandoned and just went straight into the keg.

Was thinking my cartridge was stuffed, but recently filtered a batch of pale ale in about 15 mins (gravity as well), so it's clearly NOT the cartridge.

I've got no answers for you, but I've had beers that just would not filter no matter what. Not sure why.

Cheers

PS: just realised this post probably didn't help at all.....


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

Crap, maybe i'll just have to crash chill for longer then hey!  

By the looks of things its stopped again. Seems like the quota for this filter is around 8L per clean before it craps itself! I have NFI whats going on. Ive got a light beer thats almost due for a keg soon, i'll crash chill that for 48 hours and see how it pans out. 

If it still fails, maybe it is the filter cartridge blocking up. All i can tell you is its a masssive pain in the arse. Set and forget it to find out its doing sweet fug all! A lifespan of 9 filtered beers or 160 odd L isnt all that economical for a $70 filter at this stage.


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## Pumpy (10/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> View attachment 33766



Wow now thats Gravity mine is nothing like that high .

Fourstar see the airbubble s creeping up the thread you have to teflon tape the coarse thread of the lid .you must stop that 

Pumpy


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## hughyg (10/12/09)

Hey Pumpy
Do you mean running plumbers tqpe right around the thread of the filter housing?


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

Pumpy said:


> Wow now thats Gravity mine is nothing like that high .
> Fourstar see the airbubbles creeping up the thread you have to teflon tape the coarse thread of the lid .you must stop that
> Pumpy



I should have clarified, those bubbles are from the starsan 

I ended up completing the filtering, 6 hours and 2 washes and sanitises! Lets just hope i dont pickup an infection!


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## enoch (10/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Crap, maybe i'll just have to crash chill for longer then hey!



Hopefully not a dumb question but have you tried putting the filter at ground level? While you are at it with the line from the fermenter free of loops for any bubbles to collect in. I found that I was having problems unless I did this.

Also whoever said that beerbelly filters don't have a purge valve give BB a call as they can get them (no affiliation but thanks Amanda for some great customer service on that one).

The jury is still out for me as to whether filtering is more hassle than it is worth. Does make for kegs you can move without worrying about stirring up sediment which is a plus.


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## Thirsty Boy (11/12/09)

you said you pushed C02 into the filter and it still didn't move the beer? I that case - none of the "it could be sucking air" type answers are going to help you. If pressure wont push it through, then ts def not just losing sypho / suction thats the problem. Its blocked. Whether its the filter itself or a fitting thats blocked.. don't know, but if you are saying that a clean makes it go.. then it slows down - I'm guessing the filter.

How are you cleaning it between filter sessions?

I hose mine - a fast jet of hot water to open up and flush out the crevices, make sure I get out all the yeast I can see, then it goes into hot nappisan and stays there for two days - of course its cool after the first hour or so. Then rinsed and backflushed with hot water, air dried.

I would be tempted to soak your filter in hot pbw for a day or two, then give it a good strong hose off with hot water - get some physical action going. Then backflush. PBW to loosen any biofilm or build up in the pores of the filter, physical action to knock it loose and wash it away.

If that doesn't work - then if you want I will lend you my filter cartridge for a run... if things still screw up, its something about your set-up/technique, if they go well in your set-up with my filter.. its your cartridge thats rooted.

Thirsty


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## Pumpy (11/12/09)

hughyg said:


> Hey Pumpy
> Do you mean running plumbers tqpe right around the thread of the filter housing?



Yes Hughyg ,trust me it will improve its airtightness

Pumpy


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## A3k (11/12/09)

enoch said:


> Also whoever said that beerbelly filters don't have a purge valve give BB a call as they can get them (no affiliation but thanks Amanda for some great customer service on that one).




Not sure if it was me who mentioned it, but my filter doesn't have a purge. 
I'll give her a call this arvo and see.

Cheers for the tip,
Al


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## domonsura (11/12/09)

A3k said:


> Hi bcp,
> Most people use filters like the ones from beerbelly or craftbrewer.
> 
> I have the one from beerbelly, and whilst it's good, it doesn't have a bleed valve but i wish it did.
> ...



Bring it back to me Alan - I will replace it free of charge with a brand new one that has a bleed valve. Apologies for that, the first lot we had didn't have them and I stupidly overlooked it <_< , have since replaced every one that I have managed to contact the owner or hear about them having issues with. Really sorry about that, my mistake.


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## A3k (11/12/09)

domonsura said:


> Bring it back to me Alan - I will replace it free of charge with a brand new one that has a bleed valve. Apologies for that, the first lot we had didn't have them and I stupidly overlooked it <_< , have since replaced every one that I have managed to contact the owner or hear about them having issues with. Really sorry about that, my mistake.




Awesome! Pretty happy about that.
Cheers


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## Fourstar (11/12/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> How are you cleaning it between filter sessions?



Well im quite extensive with my cleaning, i usually backflush with cold water and dump from housing until it runs clear and then do the same process with hot water until its clear. make up a nappisan solution in the housing and plunge the filter in itto remove any major debris via agitation. Rinse this out and leave to soak for a couple of hours in the housing with another nappisan solution. Repeating the process of plunge and soak until its glowing white and the nappisan water no longer looks murky/beery. Usually this is good enough after the second soak.

I'm going to try and extended soak (your 2 day job) with the filter now, while its going thru the motions i'll be crash chilling my light beer ready for filtering for the same period. That, coupled with an uber clean filter should hopefully solve my issues. If not, i'd say the filter is stuffed.

Domonsura, are your filter cartridges interchangable with the craftbrewer housing? If so, i might buy one to have around as a backup/interchange between filter jobs incase if my current one is stuffed.

Cheers!


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## A3k (11/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Domonsura, are your filter cartridges interchangable with the craftbrewer housing? If so, i might buy one to have around as a backup/interchange between filter jobs incase if my current one is stuffed.
> 
> Cheers!




I'm pretty sure they would fit as they both say they're 10" filters.
For $15 why not.


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## Ross (11/12/09)

Just be aware that the $15 cartridges are "nominal" not "absolute" So you are more likely effectively filtering at approx 3 micron.

++++

Fourstar - Give up gravity for a brew or 2 & filter under pressure between 2 kegs. You should have no problems.



Cheers Ross


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## SpillsMostOfIt (11/12/09)

I reckon a test is in order and propose:

1) Replicate the scenario you have in the picture with the Ikea furniture, but with a fermenter full of water.
2) See how fast the water flows through the system and keep removing bits from the downstream side of the system until you get the flow you think you should be.
3) Replace the bit that fails.
4) If it turns out that you dry-hopped with flowers and there were a couple stuck in the tap, replace the tap and say that was the problem...


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## Pumpy (11/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> tried to run the beer out directly into the opening of the keg rather than the post and nothing. Even pushing 50 kpa of CO2 into the IN on the filter and it still doesn't even create enough force to push the beer out (and no there are not any leaks.)






Ross said:


> Fourstar - Give up gravity for a brew or 2 & filter under pressure between 2 kegs. You should have no problems.
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross



I thought he tried it under pressure

Fourstar you dont have the IN connected to the OUT and the out connected to the in do you ?


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## Fourstar (11/12/09)

Pumpy said:


> I thought he tried it under pressure
> 
> Fourstar you dont have the IN connected to the OUT and the out connected to the in do you ?



That is correct and no, i didnt have it in reverse.


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## domonsura (12/12/09)

Ross said:


> Just be aware that the $15 cartridges are "nominal" not "absolute" So you are more likely effectively filtering at approx 3 micron.
> 
> ++++
> Cheers Ross


 Not quite, when the specs I have been given indicate a size variance of less than 1 micron, which would still leave it as less than 2 micron - which at a cartridge price a fraction of the price & a visual result equal to that of the filter cartridge you supply...it would seem to me that the rest is beside the point. Bright beer is bright beer regardless of how many 20 dollar notes you filter it through..

I bought your filter set originally, after that pad filter debacle some time back, & I've tested & compared your cartridge and mine side by side several times with no visual difference that I or those that were asked could tell. 5 beers in a row from memory, of various clarity. Same result. Except that I managed to blow a hole in your one (although that could have feasibly been my error, but to this day I still don't think so at a pressure barely enough to move the beer. Still, it could have been a one off...)and had to replace it, and even at the lower price at the time, it still hurt the pocket. That doesn't make mine a better filter than yours, but it does in my opinion make it _better value for money_. Both of them were fine for gravity filtering to a point but slowed as they became clogged with yeast at roughly the same points with no clear winner, and both were perfectly fine with keg to keg under pressure with no issues whatsoever other than the one perforated filter I mentioned. Mine cost me less, so I went with that one. I am fairly happy that I can replace mine 4 times over before I could buy one of yours. And that's still with an acceptable margin on it. Not suprisingly, we sell quite a few of them and other than the stuff up with the first batch of them not having PR valves, I'm not aware of any complaints about performance. Hard to argue with that - even if you do seem to want attempt to represent it likely to produce an inferior result.


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## Thirsty Boy (12/12/09)

As it turns out - My first filter cartridge was an expensive one, it didn't fit my housing properly, I got a lot of bypass and I ended up throwing it away - So I bought two cheaper ones.. about $15 each actually. I had a hell of a lot of trouble with poor performance; and destroyed _two_ of the paper pleated filters before I went with another more expensive one from Craftbrewer - which works perfectly and has for quite a while. Those cheaper ones were not ones purchased from Beerbelly, they _were_ however paper pleated filters with black ends and a remarkably similar looking sticker on them though. I found them to be far less robust and wouldn't buy a paper filter again... so its two sides to every story and cheap or expensive isn't even the major subplot. I'm guessing both work well under the right circumstances and both suck it big time under the wrong ones. Thats the way its worked out for me at any rate.

Perhaps we could leave that particular argument for a retail thread?

Whether its $70 dollars or $15 dollars - the object of this thread is to see if Fourstar needs any sort of a new filter cartridge at all, or whether there is something else wrong in his process. So to stay on the actual topic..............

Fourstar - try the nappisan soak for a couple of days if you want, but for me, the nappisan is a "maintenance" cleaning regime. PBW will do a much better job of shifting actual built up organic matter for a "fix" type clean. I also find that simple backflushing just does not effectively clean the filter. It can run as clear as you like, but there is still plenty of stuff in the crevices that doesn't even move. The short soak in nappisan probably just bleaches it all nice and white so you cant see it anymore.

If you don't have any, I can shoot you some PBW = and as I said, if you want to try my filter in your set-up so you can tell if its even the cartridge thats the issue, just gimme a hoy. I reckon I can manage the 10 minutes it might take me to walk to your place from mine. Cost you a beer though 

Thirsty


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## Pumpy (12/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> View attachment 33766



There is an awful amount of foam in that line did you teflon tape the John Guest fitting thread ?

Pumpy :huh:


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## domonsura (12/12/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I'm guessing both work well under the right circumstances and both suck it big time under the wrong ones. Thats the way its worked out for me at any rate.
> Thirsty



That would in my opinion be a fair assessment. Fair to say that about a lot of the bits and pieces we all use for our brewing too. I just didn't think it was necessary for the theoretical and irrelevant difference to be pointed out in such a way.

In terms of whether or not 4star needs a new filter (after reading his intial post), I would suspect not. It's just that with some beers being filtered under gravity, the buildup of yeast towards the end of the filtering process does indeed make it harder for the beer to pass through, my experiences were similar with either filter - hence I recommend filtering under (very low) pressure from keg to keg as I don't have the same issues when I do this unless the beer is very very cloudy with yeast.


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## Fourstar (13/12/09)

Pumpy said:


> There is an awful amount of foam in that line did you teflon tape the John Guest fitting thread ?
> 
> Pumpy :huh:



Yep. I had leaks before doing that, now its as tight as a nuns! 

Thanks for all the tips and offerings guys. I'll most likly be filtering my light aftera 48 hr crash chill tomorrow and constant washing and soaking in nappisan until then. At this point its linen white and if a tip her upside down i get consistant flow from the out post. so it looks like the filter should be clean and free of debris.

Only time will tell, i'll keep you posted.


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## NickB (13/12/09)

Fourstar - just filtered my summer ale now, and even though it had 30g of loose flowers dry hopped, it filtered fine in around 20 mins.

I did the PBW soak overnight as suggested by some, and boy, the amount of crap that came out that nappysan never touched was amazing. I would be trying this 

Cheers


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## ~MikE (14/12/09)

domonsura said:


> Not quite, when the specs I have been given indicate a size variance of less than 1 micron, which would still leave it as less than 2 micron - which at a cartridge price a fraction of the price & a visual result equal to that of the filter cartridge you supply...it would seem to me that the rest is beside the point. Bright beer is bright beer regardless of how many 20 dollar notes you filter it through..



that and anywhere between 1-3 microns is going to make no difference what so ever. your yeast cells are 5-10 microns in size and are easily filtered out, you need to go down to .45 micron filters to get yeast buds out of your sample and at least .45 if you want to start significantly filtering proteins/lipids etc. you need .2 micron if you want to filter everything that isn't soluble.


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## komodo (14/12/09)

Any one run "twin" inline filters? ie one 5 mic (nominal) and one 1 mic (absolute)?


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## Fourstar (14/12/09)

Success!

Filtered my Baseballers Light in 16 minutes! Yes, 16 minutes! A long cold crash chill seems to have solved my issues. No bubbles whatsoever in the housing/lines during filtration and diamond bright beer in the glass! Most of all, my recent purchase of a med pressure rambo burner investment to solve my inconsistant rolling boil seems to have solved my haze issues ive had as of late. Been thinking its got todo with poor break formation and seems i may be right! HOOORAY!

Or im getting some further assistance with the Filter too!

YIPPEE!!!! :beerbang:


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## Ross (14/12/09)

Great to hear Fourstar :icon_chickcheers: 

Cheers Ross


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