# Building The Bee Hives In Pictures



## pdilley

Decided to start work on the bee hives during the last half of this afternoon. Spent yesterday working on the ultimate grain milling work bench, and then this morning looking at property.

Looking forward to fresh honey that has not been adulterated (common practice since biblical times) to brew the best Mead I can.



Until I get a permanent place I need a portable hive. So the Kenyan Top Bar Hive it is.

Two long coffin looking things that lay out lengthwise on the horizontal plane. Simple top bars that bees draw down comb in the shape of the letter "D". 



Phase #1 - Cutting out and assembling the frame.






Line Drawing of Hive without legs attached:





What a beekeper working a Kenyan Top Bar Hive would look like.





Bees just starting to draw out fresh comb along a single top bar:



The e-book I am using:
The Barefoot Beekeeper

To Do:

1. Hinge Bottom boards on so they can be opened. Insert wire or plastic mesh underneath so when opened the hive is still protected. Bottom board can be lined with paper to check for mites and closed for winter time so bee's can use less honey to stay warm over winter.

2. Get some legs on it.

3. Get the top bars cut out and placed on top.

4. Build a Roof

5. Stick it in the garden and dump a box of bee swarm in it 



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## fraser_john

Awesome project Pete! I thought of this too, but my plate is too full as it is.


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## chappo1970

Wow Pete!

The temptation to follow in your footsteps is great. My wife and I were tending to our veggie patch this afternoon and SWMBO said maybe we should look at bee's as we seem to have a lack of them in our area to help pollenate the fruit trees etc. We live on the Logan river and have a wonderful veggie patch about 200m2 that produces fruit and veg year round. She reckons we saved about 1/3 on our veg bill this winter by growing our own but best part is the taste and flavours.

Now our honey? Mmmmmmm!

Is it hard to get into Pete?

Cheers

Chappo


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## pdilley

Piece of piss to get into.

Seriously when the swarm catchers arrive they have a cardboard box full of bees.

You take some bars off then open the box and dump all the bees in. Good chance the centre of the ball is the queen.

You put the bars back on.

You leave the box next to the hive. Over the next half day, the bees in the hive go to the entrance and fan their wings spreading the queens scent outside.

The bees in the box that are left and those flying around home in on the scent and land in the hive.

A day or so and you know if they like it and stay.

Low maintenance. You lift only one top bar out at a time. This pisses the bees off less and you can get by with no smoker and no suit if you are gentle and don't breath CO2 all over the bees like a hungry bear.

Modern hives use lots of chemicals and drugs. This is designed from the World Bank / Peace Corp days from the Kenyan design for no drugs and low maintenance. If you are into saving the bees and making your veggie and fruit crop double or tripple at the same time. Don't wait, Do It now.

Spring is fast approaching and it will be swarm time October-November. Don't miss the boat  If you don't get started at Swarm season then you really should wait a whole year until next swarm season (if you are like me that is NOT an option!)

BTW the plans are FREE here How To Build A Top Bar Hive.pdf if you want to start building right away. All it takes is a single sheet of C/D 21mm Plywood from Bunnings. Then when you built as much as I have you get some long metres of hardwood and just rip them into bars the right width and chop em off so they fit over the top. After you got your hive done and bees then you can spend time learning about them.

Add a roof and some bees and end of story.

Harvesting honey is easier than modern hives. Take out top bar, slice off the wax comb, take the comb as the bees will build new comb. 

Mash up the comb with a knife and let sit in muslin in a jar, honey drips through, wax stays behind.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: Tools used: Circular Saw. Pencil. Large Carpenters Straight edge. Wood Glue. Nails to tack sides temporary. Bricks to add weight during glue dry.

EDIT2: My Modifications from Free Plan = 6" Wide cut of plywood for the floor. Hinged so it can be opened and closed. Closed at winter for bees to stay warmer. Also modified the angle for wide bars but not deep letter D. Canberra gets hot and wax in 45C will not be hard. Heavy comb will fall and break so I designed Shallow + Wide bars. 120 degrees angle on the sides so that means 30 degrees angle on the circular saw to make the sides of the hive have nice straight tops and bottoms to attach to the 6" wide bottom strip of plywood and to put top bars on the top nice and flat.


This Design approved by Friends of The Bees
Save the Honey Bee!


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## OzMick

Do you need a permit/license to keep bees?


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## pdilley

Not in the ACT. Permit free 

You have to register in NSW (cheap) only so if there is disease outbreak the government can notify you.

I am not sure about Victoria, I am sure its similar to NSW.

I never read anything about Qld yet.


Bottom line, its not expensive if you do and its not a hassle. Just us in the ACT get off scott free 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: Only takes a single sheet of C/D Plywood from Bunnings. 21mm is what I used but 19mm will work if you can find it (my store didn't carry 19 so 21 it was). $80 for plywood so $40 per hive plus hardware, legs and top bars. Just one bucket of honey cost me that from the farm! Hoping to get about 120kg ($600 farm price, $1,320 Supermarket price worth of honey) out of both of these each year.


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## OzMick

Brewer Pete said:


> I never read anything about Qld yet.



http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/bees/16815.html would suggest it is an $11 or so annual registration fee in Queensland.

Where and how does one go about rustling up one of these swarms? You've really got me interested...


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## Henno

I'm interested as well Pete. We are getting our garden up and going in the next week or so and to double or triple our crop is something I never thought of really as we have native bees around here. Do you think we would still get an increase in veggie efficiency?

In the link you posted the bars you make out of hardwood are pictured being lifted out with the D shaped comb underneath. I know you haven't got your going yet but what puzzled me with this is what if the bees decide to build a comb on the joins between two bars? The picture shows a bar being lifted with a comb conveniently built right in the middle of it.


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## geoff_tewierik

Maybe there's a run of wax down the centre of bar to start or encourage the bees?

This thread has definately got my wife interested.

*Edit - just read the building the hive pdf, and yes a run of wax down the centre of the bar is advised.


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## pdilley

Wax starter line yes. Or for those of us in a hurry a piece of string run down the middle of the bar and using a soldering iron and block of bees wax drip the heated wax onto the string. The string bonds to the board. Undo clamps
and cut the string ends and put the next board on your bench to wax.

Bees sometime bridge comb to sides of hives. This is no issue. You knock on top bars with back of scredriver etc and you can hear hollow sound of no comb and dull sound of bar with comb under it. You take out one or two empty bars and then take out comb bars one by one sliding them back as you go.

As you gently move a bar back you will feel resistance if it is bridge combed to the sides. Slide in a cheap $2 bread knife to cut the bridge or take a rod of iron and hammer out a bend in the end then hammer the bent bit into a blade and you built your own hive tool to insert and slide down the hive edges cutting bridge comb as it goes down to the bottom. Bees never bridge the bottom most times as they need bee space to crawl between combs.

Most of your maintanence is looking for cross comb as bees sometime like to build curved comb. Just trim the curved end with knife and reset it straight on the bar. 

You find bee swarm collectors at bee clubs. Lots of club members collect swarms from people afraid of bees and club members take swarms in. Usually a small fee or a donation for petrol and their time is all it takes for bees. You can mail order factory bees but your talking lots of money and a partially expired box of bees by the time it finally arrives in the mail. Mail order has queen in a cage so a bit of extra work removing the seal and inserting piece of candy in the hole before dumping her cage and all the box of bees into your hive.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## davewaldo

Hi BP, thanks for posting looks great!

Chappo MATE!!! You have to do this!!! 

I'm happy to help where I can, I'd love to do this at my place but its too small (and I have family members allergic to bees), your place would be awesome. We should have a working bee weekend and build some hives. 

Just think of all those mead possibilities!!! And I reckon you would get FABULOUS honey as you have a variety of citrus trees on your property. :icon_drool2: 

All from your property.... morat (mulberry mead), citrus mead, plain mead, what ever else you grow mead..... Vegetable wine.....


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## pdilley

Australia has native bees but they are not what we know of as the honey bee. Are native bees or honey bees in your garden? Most places if you look you will find less and less bees each year. They are going extinct in some areas with lots of fingers pointed to pesticide sprays such as neonicitinoids.

Crop increases will be noticeable if you have few, diminishing or no bees. If the guy 13 houses down has 8 hives running then you wont get as big of a boost as you are likely getting a lot of bee visits already.

Kenyan TBH is low drug, less factory. You harvest during the season. Take a bar here and there. If you want environment and bee friendly but designed to open only once a year (might get you wierd looks by traditional beeks) then the Warre hive is said to be best. Its a top bar but vertical instead of horizontal.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## chappo1970

Thanks for the info Pete,
Discussed with SWMBO last night and have got the green light. Unfortunately she has an allergic reaction to Bees but is willing to go for it as long as I place the hives in a spot away from the veggie patch. So I was thinking down on the river bank as that's a good 20-30m away. I'm surprised that you can get 120kg out those little guys but I won't complain. We use no chemical on out veggies what so ever so it makes sense to harvest chemical free honey. Any further information you can spin my way BP will be great. I reckon those hives you have built are a cracker plus simple to build especially as I have a table saw.  




davewaldo said:


> Hi BP, thanks for posting looks great!
> 
> Chappo MATE!!! You have to do this!!!
> 
> I'm happy to help where I can, I'd love to do this at my place but its too small (and I have family members allergic to bees), your place would be awesome. We should have a working bee weekend and build some hives.
> 
> Just think of all those mead possibilities!!! And I reckon you would get FABULOUS honey as you have a variety of citrus trees on your property. :icon_drool2:
> 
> All from your property.... morat (mulberry mead), citrus mead, plain mead, what ever else you grow mead..... Vegetable wine.....




Dave (and I guess the other Dave) your on. I'll go via Bunnings sometime in the next week or 2 for materials. Shouldn't take more than an afternoon to build those hives. I don't know if you or the other Dave have contacts in the bee world to get our hands on some swarming bee's but I would be happy to split the honey with you guys if you can help me with setting this up and maybe teach me a thing or two about bee keeping. I'm thinking of starting with 2 hives first and then seeing how it goes.

Oh BTW the Mulberry is chock a block full of fruit this season. I estimate that we will be ready to harvest in about 2-3 weeks so maybe we can have a brew day, bee hive and mulberry harvest day in the next few weeks. We can have a BBQ or something and the SWMBO's can relax by the pool or river?

Cheers

Chappo


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## davewaldo

Chappo... you know the way to my heart.... Honey (mead), beer, fruits, BBQ, and building stuff!

I'm up for it for sure!

The other Dave (David England) knows a bee keeper, so we may be able to get a swarm from him.

Sounds like fun!


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## winkle

Going slightly off topic, thanks for the prompting Pete - I've got a hive of Trigona Carbonaria (native stingless bees) that really HAS to be split this year. These things are good plant/fruit pollonators for a variety of plants but rarely produce enough honey to harvest without stressing the hive.
PS just because they are stingless doesn't mean that they don't bite.


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## Leigh

Excellent thread BP, been thinking of doing this for quite some time! I'll be watching this thread to see what successes you all have


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## brettprevans

nice work Pete. sweet sweet home grown honey (so to speak).

If anyone if Eastern suburbs melbourne is thinking of doing this and needs to source bees, let me know. I recemtly found out that the father of a mate of mate is a hard core bee keeper. so I might be able to hook you up with some bees.

And dont worry im already working on sourcing some cheap honey from him!


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## chappo1970

OzMick said:


> http://www2.dpi.qld.gov.au/bees/16815.html would suggest it is an $11 or so annual registration fee in Queensland.
> 
> Where and how does one go about rustling up one of these swarms? You've really got me interested...




Thanks Ozy!

Great info. Apparently I can have upto 10 hives? Crazy stuff. Anyway $11.20 is no biggy.

Cheers

Chappo


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## OzMick

Chappo said:


> Thanks Ozy!
> 
> Great info. Apparently I can have upto 10 hives? Crazy stuff. Anyway $11.20 is no biggy.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chappo



The way I see it is that we mightn't be able to grow hops in Queensland particularly well, but in addition to mead a hive can make honey for trade/sale for acquiring hops and probably even pay for malt. And I'm frigging hopeless at remembering to water plants too


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## chappo1970

Just joined the www.biobees.com forum... ROFL! I'll have ban myself from there when I am sampling my homebrew and probably mind my P's and Q's regardless  :lol: 

Cheers 

Chappo


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## Sydneybrewer

i was actually thinking of building one of these next to some hops plants that i planning (still in research and cost comparison atm), would hope they would work in conjunction hoppy flavoured honey and more flowers on the plant. what do you guys think, and does anybody know where i can get bees in Sydney?


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## pdilley

Chappo and fellow builders.

Some swarm catchers want you to provide a box to put bees in when they catch swarms so right away they draw comb and don't waste energy building wax on cardboard boxes.

Be sure to budget in an extra half sheet of plywood to build swarm hives which are small cute versions of this hive that fits in the back of a car and only has a small number of top bars.

I will get back with the number of bars needed unless Chappo finds it on his forum. When they put a swarm in the short swarm version of this hive you just lift out the bars and put them in your big hive to transfer the hive over.
Simple as!

And yes, this hive uses the least amount of wood and fastest to build. Save money and resources. More money for malt and hops!


I am going to build two short swarm collecting versions and bring to the next Canberra Bee Club meeting as I told the president about them and they're really excited to learn about them in a show and tell session. The president will be capturing the swarms for me so I'll give him the two small swarm hives at the end of the meeting to take home and put in his car the next swarm catching hunt he goes on.

By law the frames (top bars) need to be removeable which these are so you comply with any inspection requirements. If your local club is open to new ideas you can do show and tell with your small swarm hives. If they are crabby old farts just smile and say you have langstroth hives at home.


One word of warning. Swarm season is usually 6+ weeks away. However warming trends made last years swarms start only two weeks from now. So get cracking if are thinking of doing it.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## chappo1970

What! I need a swarm box too? Anything else Pete? What about bee handling gear? Whips, bike chains and or fly swatters. 

I've downloaded the plans for the hive boxes which are easy to build and the swarm boxes are just a shorter version then, say what 10 bars or 350mm? 35mm for the bar width right Pete? I've filled in the DPI form and faxed it in easy as. Any recommended reading there Pete, Dave and whoever?

I'm not a real buggy/insect person, in fact I flinch at the slightest creepy crawly sensation so this is going to be very interesting. I have had a huge fear of bee's since living in the US when I stung severely by Yellow Jackets (a form of wasp IIRC) when I was about 8yrs. Funny before then I used to help Grandpa with his bee's at every chance I got so I'm torn but pretty excited.


Cheers

Chappo


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## Leigh

For those in Victoria, this is from the Vic DPI's website:

*Registration as a beekeeper*
The Livestock Disease Control Act 1994 requires anyone who owns one or more hives of bees to register as a beekeeper with the Department of Primary Industries. The current annual fee when 1-60 hives are kept is $11.50. When 61 or more hives are kept the fee is calculated at 19 cents per hive. DPI will routinely forward application forms for renewal of registration to all registered beekeepers.

A registration number is allotted to a beekeeper when registering for the first time. It is compulsory to brand (by painting or firebrand) this number on each of your hives.


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## pdilley

10 bar hives are what I'm building this week during nights.

Books? I have tons but maybe Beeking For Dummies is a good all rounder book. Bees are fascinating and relaxing if you let it get you. And not much to read about brcause they will do their own thing no matter how smart you think you are  So they teach you to work with them.

Bee keeping gear will let you get over your fear slowly bit by bit if you need to. Soon you'll find gloves clumbsy so you might forgo them. Soon maybe the veil and hats keep you hot and sweaty so you might forgo that. You'll stop where you feel comfortable and thats right for you.

I've driven straight into a swarm of yellow jackeys before at 80mph and had them smash into me and down the jacket and undet my shirt so I know them first hand 

I got a suit and smoker just in case and will do the same progression to see what I work best with and have the goal to bee like beeguardian in his videos on youtube. 

With a suit a good one will have velcro as well as zippers to make sure they dont get in. Zippers only and they can sneak in where the gap is on the end.

I ordered beeswax, about 2kg from penders as well and have a few litre bottles of boiled linseed oil. Mix the two together to make natural beeswax paint to protect the wood and weatherproof if you don't want to paint. Just have to apply it hot so it melts and mixes together. About the same for wax and oil as buying a small tin of paint from Bunnings.

For top bars I could have just gotten another sheet of ply and rip them out of that but at Bunningd they had a hardwood natural untreated exterior decking wood at 70mm width. I figure i'd rip two bars per length of that. Cost is roughly same as another ply sheet so figure hardwood better go for trying.

My calc said about 20metres of that should rip out enough 480mm long bars at 32mm wide (1 1/4" if Im correct at US to metric) as that would be about 39 bars per large hive. So 78 bars in all. I won't make bars for small hives yet because you end up putting them on the big hive when transfering your captured swarm from the small hive to the big hive. When both biggies are full I'll work probably get the 3rd hive built and top bar'd and just use its bars for small capture hive so again no need for its own set of bars if you follow me.

I picked up some pine (70mm wide boards) by 1.2 metre but really needed 1.25 so just glue some end cuts on to make up length to span the long side of the big hive and the two 21mm thick end boards to build a border edge and attach sheet of 9mm C/D glued on top to make a simple cover that slides over all hive edges resting on top and forming a flat roof. This is to keep rain out and keep the bars from shifting when in the back of a car (really important for the small swarm capture hives). Building the simple flat box cover roof for all my hives and later on adding a gabled roof when time permits. The gap between the flat roof and gable is whete you could put some straw in for extra winter insulation.
This is so the bees eat less honey during winter from burning energy to warm the hive in interior during the winter months.

I think I found Penders best online order place. Some prices lowest and others low enough that I went with them for 2kg of wax blocks, suit, gloves, aussie smoker.



Excuse any typos as Im on my mobile.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Henno

How much did the suit and smoker and stuff set you back Pete? If I'm to get this one past the boss with my work as slow as it is at the moment it's gunna have to be a cheap hobby. She has twigged onto the fact that my beer isn't that cheap per litre after doing some beer to bling ratio sums.


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## pdilley

I am also using the 9mm C/D for the divider boards. Just take a couple bars and kerf for 9mm. Cut out interior shape f hive from 9mm ply and glue into the kerf. Now have a dividing board/bar. I think the large hive can take two. This lets you split the hive into 3 hives to manage small swarms as your swarms grow you got some time to knock together more hives and transfer one into the new hive giving the remaining two more room to grow until again you build another hive and split them up into two separatw hives.

Lots of managing tricks can be done with big long top bar hives and divider boards like this. You can simulate a swarm in one hive and trick the swarming half of the colony into thinking it swarmed when instead you split them up down to the other end of the box 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

Henno said:


> How much did the suit and smoker and stuff set you back Pete? If I'm to get this one past the boss with my work as slow as it is at the moment it's gunna have to be a cheap hobby. She has twigged onto the fact that my beer isn't that cheap per litre after doing some beer to bling ratio sums.



Suits and smokers are one off purchases like brew gear. Smokers are not recommended as it stresses bees because you can just spray the bees with a bottle of sugar water and it does the same thing but better as the bees instead simply stop what they are doing and lick sugar water off them. I just got one in case (but its a savings area to skip it and get a plastic sprayer from bunnings) A stainless steel aussie smoker is about 68.

Suits again are more psychological. Ive been stung in my tear duct by a guard bee as a child so nothing could top that bee sting wise for pain and tobe honest it didnt really bother me much even then as a kid.

Most beeks work without gear. There is a MS sufferer who likes getting stung as he said he gets a 2 to 3 year remission from symptoms from being stung with bee venom. So maybe it isn't all bad after all. Long history of bee products and bee stings in medical books and current practices in other countries.

That said a full body suit with velco + zippers + built in veil will be 150-170. 

Next down is just the jacket and veil.

Next down is just the viel alone.


If you want cow hide gloves with covers that go up to your elbow its about 30.

Wax blocks are about 8.80 a kg. Need some to prewax your bars and optionally to melt into boiled linseed oil to weatherproof your hives in a safe non toxic bee friendly way.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

I have not settled on bar width yet until I start ripping but in general it seems bees naturally space their comb two distances. One the prefer for brood comb and the other for honey storage comb. You can build the smaller and add spaces or build large and small and mix or just go with one and deal with the knowledge that no matter what you do the bees dcide for themselves what they want to do.

I have to read up on both widths but 1 1/4" width is stuck in my head so thats what 32mm but 32, 33, 35? Only time will tell what your bees like so I'll probably just go with the flow and rip them all one width, the smaller brood length and try spacers but then maybe not as I may just prefer to let them do what they want during the first year and learn what they prefer and try to adjust the next season.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Moray

how much space do you need for a hive ?

I live in inner eastern melbourne and have a small to medium size block, about 500 square meters.
would that be big enough for a small hive ?


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## pdilley

Enough room to fit a box 1.2 metres long by roughly 48cm wide on legs or two of them 

Bees fly; you only need minimal room for hives. They will sort out the rest.

Some apartmemt dwellers even have run hives so space is not a huge issue.

EDIT: In the previous post spaces should read spacers (small strips of wood that make the smaller bar seem the wider bars dimemsions)

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## white.grant

Moray said:


> how much space do you need for a hive ?
> 
> I live in inner eastern melbourne and have a small to medium size block, about 500 square meters.
> would that be big enough for a small hive ?



Having the space for a hive is one thing, having forage for the bees is another. In urban areas it's well worth checking out the available flowering trees within a couple of kilometers of where you live to make sure the bees have good forage and its going to taste like you want it too. Unlike country areas where its possible for a single flowering species to dominate, urban areas have have smaller concentrations of the usual nectar producing plants and this will affect the final flavours.

A mate and I kept a hive in Islington for a couple of years on a very small block near a large park with big trees so we thought we'd be ok. The bees thrived, and while the honey was fresh and I was very proud of it, it tasted like dandelions and was a very acquired taste. The dandelions were the most prolific available sauce of nectar and the bees went for it every time.

Reading this thread is giving me ideas again though, thanks for posting it Brewer Pete.

cheers

grant


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## pdilley

What a great example of bees doing what they want and not what the beek wants 

Bees are in survival mode. They wany to expand the colony as fast as possible and get as much stored up food to eat through winter to survive until food is available again in spring. All of this while using the least amount of expended energy possible.

Maybe a bit advanced or intermediate but you can train bees like fox hounds on a scent by feeding them the varietal of honey you want them to go after (provided you have supply around you of that flowering plant/tree) when spring and the nectar flow starts.

I grew veggie garden in Melbourne, neighbours keen on gardening -- seeme like a Melbourne thing: was in South Eastern suburbs when there.

Pollen is protein, the bees meat equivalent they eat. Nectar juices are what they store and make honey from. Both are stored in comb but both are capped with different looking wax seals that you can see and just cut out capped honey to process and use. Same with brood.

Its lots of learning as you go so a quick catch up on the nectar flow(s) and dates in your area can be had from your local bee club. Even single varietals of honey are mixes of other nectars unless your flow is strong and plants dense of the one you want.

Im happy to get wild flower honey. If targeting a varietal I would neef to truck the hive across the state(s) at different seasons to chase a variety of flowering plant.

I will have to add some YouTube video links as this is supposed to be pictures post 
That and stop posting and do more building in the shed at nights if I am to make my self imposed weekend deadline for getting small 10'bar collector hives to the swarm collectors of the local club.
Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## mikem108

Check this out, set up a speaker box on a pole outside and the bees will come. This came from Homebush Show ground, the guys reckon they pulled 40kgs of honey/honeycomb out of it once the bees were dispersed


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## pdilley

Construction Notes

METRIC lumber sizes and metric measurements.

Sheets of construction material like plywood is 2400 mm x 1200 mm in Australia.

Designs must be built around these critical dimensions (2.4 metres by 1.2 metres).

I find I can get two long top bar hives built from a single sheet including two 6" wide floor strips using the 1200mm length. 48" is 1,219.5 mm so it wont be as long as a long hive in Barefoot Beekeeping plans but you have to work with local materials.

With 21mm thick ply the ends add 21mm length for each end so total length is 1242mm when thinking about building a cover lid to slide over the box.

I found enough wood left over for wider floorboards than 6" but I went for 6" wide (152.4 mm) for my first two.

I cut my sides 12.5" (317.5 mm) wide and use the entire 1200mm length of a sheet of plywood.

To cope with Australia's hot summer I increased the angles of the sides to 120 degrees angle. This lets me set my circular saw to 30 degrees to counter cut the ends of the sides of the hide to sit flat on the 6" floor board and have nice flat level tops to place top bars on. The resulting comb is wide but not deep so less chance of comb collapse when wax is soft during the occasional 45C days in summer (113 F).

This gives a top bar length of 48cm length (18.9 inches) I will cut the bars to 19 inches (48.3 cm) to fit standard hives in case I end up with some (supers plus top bar hive combination tests?).

Brood Bar Width = 32mm
Honey Bar Width = 35mm or slighlty larger, 36mm

Brood bars along 1200mm length is 37 bars with 1/2 a bar to make up in spacers at each end of 8mm thickness each if using 100% brood bars.

Honey bars (35mm) along 1200mm length is 34 bars with 1/3rd of a bar gap to fill in at each end in spacers of 5mm thicknes each.

Honey bars (36mm) along 1200mm length is 33 bars with 1/3rd of a bar gap to fill in at each end in spacers of 6mm each.

Combination of different bars is calculated on individual basis:
1200 - (brood bars x 32) - (honey bars x 35or36)

I will also make a/two/three small 10 bar swarm capture hive/s to give to the swarm collectors. As they catch swarms these small hives fit in their car to drive to the swarm location instead of them using cardboard box or a Nuc or Standard hive. Bees collected will draw comb on the top bars immediately after capture which saves wasted energy by them drawing wax on cardboard boxes or horizontal standard frames only to have to draw new wax out in the top bar hive. I simply remove bars from swarm hive and place in my long hive to transfer the swarm as bar length is identical between capture hives and long top bar hives I build.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

Ok I had another 21mm sheet of C/D Ply I bought last night from Bunnings.

Coming home from work I went into the shed. In the time it took for dinner to be prepared by SWMBO.

I had cut out and diagramed all parts to glue together to make

1. 1 Long Top Bar Hive (2 end pieces plus two long sides plus one 6" wide floor board)
2. 2 Short 10 bar Swarm Capture Hives ( 4 end pieces plus 3 short sides plus 2 6" wide floor boards)
2a. I cut out one length for Long Top Bar hive and then sliced out three 320mm long sides.
2b. I will have to glue up two sides of C/D ply then draw out and cut out the fourth and remaining side for the 2nd Swarm Capture Hive.

No one can say these hives are not some of the fastest hives using the least amount of wood to build. I should be well on my way to getting 2 swarm hives finished and perhaps painted (will use exterior paint as they hold bees only for a day or two on swarm collecting -- saving the special weatherproofing for the long top bar hives only -- the mixture of bees wax melted into hot boiled oil I got from Bunnings earlier to make a non-toxic bee safe weatherproofing as the beeswax smell will help the bees stay in the hives as it smells like a bee home already.

Other than that you get all those hives out of a single cut from the C/D ply board from Bunnings.

All parts are pre-drilled to accept tacking nails after applying wood glue to the sides of the boards where they butt up against the end boards.


Tomorrow night after work I will set the circular saw to 30 degree angle and cut the sides of all the side boards so they sit flat against the floor board and hold top bars flat against them when sitting at 120 degree angles.

I will build the 3rd Long Top Bar hive (wow 6 swarms easily I can house, or 9 swarms if an emergency collection then start building more long bar hives before they run out of room! Awesome!) and Both Small Top Bar Hives. I will glue up and ready the last side to be cut out when dry for the 2nd Small Top Bar Hive.

If time permits I will start cutting down the lengths of hardwood decking into 19" long pieces ready to rip them down the middle into 32mm wide brood bars. I will need 20 bars for the 2 small capture hives so that is 10 cuts of the decking wood at 19" long each. (ripping them in half makes for 20 total bars).

I expect Thursday To be all ripping top bars at brood bar width of 32mm. And Start building a simple frame (45 degree cuts) out of the Pine. Glue them together then cut out a top cover piece from the 9mm C/D plywood.

and then Friday is last minute checks and making more brood and then honey width (35-36mm) top bars in preparation for the following weeks after getting swarm.

Saturday is delivering the swarm capture top bar hives to the president of the Canberra Bee Club and show them quickly how to use them.

All on track! -- Now Imagine if I was retired and had an 8 hour day to work on this! I could knock out the entire mass of bee hives in 2 days.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Top Bar Hive / Bee Videos

Bee Guardian
Shows that you can dress in a trucker shirt, hat and blue jeans and work a top bar hive with no smoker, not even sugar water spray. If you take your time its an enjoyable past time out with your bees and your bees are happy as well.







Out of a sky blue
Shows that if you rush a top bar hive and smoke your bees and smash and jostle them around you will get stung!
That Said he has some of the best wild bee hive capture and transfer videos for top bar hives.





















That should get you going with watching videos to learn about Top Bar Hive Beekeeping!


Edit: With his top bars looks like I can just rip the 70mm down the centre and use them for brood bars. Will need to get wider bars for bigger honey bars (38mm or larger width).

Edit #2: His top bar hives have entrance in front so brood comb in front. This is different design to the Biobees which I like better. Main holes are in centre so brood is in centre and build out to honey on each end. Each end has holes so you can split and divide a hive and do a fake swarming to trick the bees. But his videos are still good to see construction techniques.

Edit #3: Most of his hive is reclaimed wood. But you can see how cheap wood is in the States and how much we are forced to pay for wood here in Australia compared to most places in the word 



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## OzMick

Thinking I might go a Warre style hive... but could be moving interstate in the next month or two so everything is on hold right at the moment. :/ Hopefully can still establish a colony late October if swarming is still on, will have to see. Won't stop me reading up all I can though, so thanks Pete. You've been an inspiration.


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## MHB

Pete

Just a couple of points, I have kept bees before, that's what started me brewing making mead. My experience has all been with the conventional brood box and super system, which brings me to my first point.

How do you separate brood from honeycomb? In the conventional hive queen excluders (and a couple of other tricks) keep the brood out of the honeycomb you want to rob. Having been inside a few wild hives, I have noticed they tend to scatter the brood about a bit and you don't want to be caught stealing their young, they get a mite testy about that.

Hives have personalities; some hives are friendly and some are grumpy, you can change the queen and change the personality of the hive (this is the sort of thing that your local bee keeping club can help you with), basically you encourage friendly/productive hives to make spare queens then transplant her into the nasty hives. One of my hives I could work in a tee-shirt and stubbies, no smoke no veil nothing, another well, if you went with in a couple of meters you could hear the angry hum rising. Point is until you get to know your hive, dress prudently, the odd sting is inevitable 20 or 30 in a few minutes can be very unpleasant.

Lastly if you live in Cane toad areas, the entrance to the hive must be at least 450mm from the ground, again talk to your local beekeepers, but Cane toads have an appetite for bees that is frankly unbelievable, they will sit there and eat bees until they die from the stings, or you run out of bees.

I do miss my bees, one day it's something I would like to get back into.

MHB

Edit

You added the answer to my first question while I was typing, I sort of thought the bar width might be the way to go.

Mark


----------



## pdilley

The top bar design I am building has the entrance in the middle.

The bees build brood comb there. As they build out to the sides they switch from brood to honey comb.

The worker bees will actually send the queen back away from honey comb towards the centre of the hide and back into brood comb so a queen excluder is not needed. But you can still buy queen excluder material and cut it out to the shape of the hive and try and work it in. I have not met any Top Bar Hive beeks that do this or have tried and continue to do this yet on the forums. The cross-over combs with some honey and some brood is part of the honey stores that you leave for your bees to eat over winter so again its not an issue as you don't harvest the cross-over comb only the next combs over which are all honey.

Yes the hives will all be different. Thank you for pointing that out 

With the Langstroth hive you manage the whole system by forcing the brood down below putting a queen excluder on and putting supers stacked on top.

With TBH thats not the way. Its more of working with the bees, getting less honey, using wild swarms (and hoping that you don't get a 3 year old queen ). And letting your bees interbreed with the wild population to mix the genetics instead of cloning a set of queens.

Breeding queens you get full control of putting new queens full of eggs into a hive and make it peak productive. With TBH most beeks are more interested in getting good genetic mixtures so one disease does not wipe out your entire set of bee hives from a common genetic trait that might be a weakness to a particular disease.

Nothing wrong with either style of bee keeping. Just if you want massive production but push your bees to almost factory levels then Langstroths shine in production output. TBH are for giving up factory honey production for less reliance on Bayer drugs. If the hive is weak genetically let it die off like Darwin pointed out so that only the stronger resistant genes keep going back into the next breeding of honey bees.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


Edit: These hives all have legs attached which keeps them at your waist hight level. Plenty off the ground to get away from all sorts of pests that can get to ground level hives - A weakness of the Langstroths unless you build tables or frames to put your Langs on.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

My parent used to be Pro bee keepers....good the days we used to spend extraction honey and doing hives... <_< 

To start your frames, you need to get the wax honeycome base sheets, then they will build the cells on top...

They will love you if you provide the base, rather than getting then to build their own.

And a smoker with saw dust soaked in metho...


----------



## pdilley

OzMick said:


> Thinking I might go a Warre style hive... but could be moving interstate in the next month or two so everything is on hold right at the moment. :/ Hopefully can still establish a colony late October if swarming is still on, will have to see. Won't stop me reading up all I can though, so thanks Pete. You've been an inspiration.



Did I get a chance to talk to you on another forum? I get my forums mixed up at times with discussions on Warre hives 

I still want to build at least one to try out but by law the frames or top bars need to be removable for inspectors that come to inspect.

That said, we don't have inspector anymore in ACT and the club relies on the NSW inspector that is nearby. So you could get away with one Warre for testing. But there is some beauty in that hive design where you open it only one time per year and let the moisture, scent levels, and temperatures remain exactly as the bees want it inside. It is said to be the most naturally resistant to pests hive design out there. Looks like Langs from far away except its a Vertical Top Bar hive where bees build from the top down. So brood is at the top where "Hot Air Rises" so keep warmer in winter than in Langstroth hives. And they build down so honey only combs are down at the bottom to harvest during the once a year opening. Because the bees propolise the hive boxes together you never really get near the brood comb at all to vent the queens pheromones or moisture or temperature so all stability of environment for the bees is maintained during the harvest.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Ducatiboy stu said:


> My parent used to be Pro bee keepers....good the days we used to spend extraction honey and doing hives... <_<
> 
> To start your frames, you need to get the wax honeycome base sheets, then they will build the cells on top...
> 
> They will love you if you provide the base, rather than getting then to build their own.
> 
> And a smoker with saw dust soaked in metho...



hehe  wax foundation is preset at specific size. Actually larger than bees naturally build for themselves. One of the famous arguments is that the larger cells force the bees not to build what they need when they need it. Each cell size is for different purpose (brood, drone, queen, honey, pollen, etc.) Some say mites are less of a problem when bees are left to build exact size (smaller than Langstroth wax foundation size cells) for growing new brood into workers.

But its like brewing arguments over minute things 

mmm metho... Best burning item is dried cow shit -- burns long burns well, but I don't have many cows nearby to grab some 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Actually. we found pine cones and pine needles the best...lasted ages in the smoker..

Yes we had vertical hives , stacked to 3 high. We even got our own hot-brand made up...with our license


God...sitting in the shed , building, branding and painting hives....  


Box Honey still is the best...But Dark Iron Bark takes some beating... :super:

Old man became an expert on local flora...to the point he would stop at every flowering tree to check its nuts out...


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## O'Henry

All this talk on bees has got me all sad again. Kept them for a year and then developed a severe allergic reaction (maybe to do with the 5 stings on my ankle). 

Anyone who is thinking of giving it a go, DO IT! It is a great hobby with a fantastic payoff. The honey is delicious! Best thing IMO would be to join a local club and learn as much as you can. The club I was in had monthly working bees and lectures and they were more than happy to help you out anytime with gear, or bees...


----------



## Henno

Spoke to two bee guys in Bundy today. One of them was a bit vague and said if I came in he could 'look after me'. I think that meant he could give or sell me a swarm of bees, either that or I may end up with a kee of smack. Other guy spent some time and said he picks up swarms for about $60 or $70. When I flat out asked him what he could onsell one to me he also got a bit vague but perked up a bit when I mentioned the Kenyan top bar hive I was about to build. Looks like he is going to look it up on the ole internet thingy and get back to me. At least he is open to ideas and a bit of research.


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## simonab

Good luck Pete - that design looks interesting !

We have kept bees for 2 seasons in our back yard in Melbourne. My wife's grandfather is a beekeeper.

We have a standard 8 frame hive which is very productive - last summer we harvested over 30Kg of lovely tastinng honey. Towards the end of the season we had the brood box plus 3 full supers on top!

This year we plan to split the hive into two, to increase production. The great benefit of having a hive in your back yard in the suburbs are:
i) you can keep a close eye on the bees (and provide extra shade in excessively hot days if required) 
ii) there are always different varieties of flowering plants throughout the whole season which means you dont have to move the hive to chase nectar flows like pro beekeepers do. Somedays the bees come home with white pollen, the enxt day it may be orange.
iii) your neghbours will love you when you give them honey made from thier flowers

Good luck.

Cheers
Simon


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## pdilley

Had To Stop Building Long Hive and Emergency Build a Swarm Capture Hive for Saturday

I ordered my BeesWax, BeeSuit, Gloves, Smoker on Monday and they still have not arrived <_< 

I was really counting on it being here today so I could melt wax into the boiled linseed oil and coat the finished Swarm Capture Hive. I had to go with a non natural coating as I need it dry by the time Saturday rolls around. The second Swarm Capture Hive will get the full wax+linseed oil treatment as well as the three Long Hives. Since the bees will only be inside the swarm capture hive for a day or two I am not worried. I can sand it down and finish with wax+linseed oil after the emergency swarm season rush is over.

I also changed the design.

I went to 12 top bars because it looked better to me? More Square I guess. I know 5 top bars can be considered a Nuc hive for queen rearing and getting new queens producing and going before transferring to big hives. So 12 bars it is. I can use a divider board and drill a hole at an end on alternating sides like the plans show for the large hive to do a mini hive split into two Nucs for rearing and training 2 queens in one hive.




Hole size of hives changed from plans. Plans from UK ask for Champagne corks or corks for 1 Gallon Bottles. The LHBS does not carry Champagne corks. And the only corks available in tapered stopped at 1" diameter. The hole in the plans for the hives is 1" diameter 



New Hole size = 1 1/8" because I am using the rubber bungs for my 5L demijohns. They have a 1" taper on the bottom and a larger taper on the top. Perfect fit for a 1 1/8" hive hole.



Now I just need that beeswax to prewax the top bars with string and wax.

Now I need to build a nice lid cover that will keep the top bars in place while the hive is in the back of the swarm collectors car and I am completely finished with this capture hive / 2 Nuc Queen Rearing Hive.


Now On To The Long Hives

Time to drill some holes in the middle, the three main holes that will be bunged with rubber stoppers to manage how much open space is available depending on size of the colony of bees and able to close them down as honey and bee numbers drop off and other bees start deciding to rob honey from my hives. This way with less openings the remaining guard bees have a chance of fighting the intruders off!



Now for the side hole. This is important when splitting long hives into multiple hives. The long hive can have up to 2 divider bars so I can get 3 hives in one!



Missing is the shot of the side hole on the other end, but *important* on the exact opposite side of the hive than the holes I drilled on this front side piece. That way I can close up the middle hives and split the long hive in two. Then open both ends. I can trick bees by turning the hive around physically and the hole they are used to going into will be the other hive and they won't know they are flying home to the other side. This lets me do splits and fake swarming to trick the bees!


I went to Bunnings and found wire mesh at just tiny bit larger than optimum size (3mm squares is optimum) next to the nylon gutter mesh with larger squares. Same price and 2 more metres of material!



Staple gun, straight tin snips and I was rocking and rolling getting the bottoms all wired up in preparation for mounting the bottom boards on hinges and clasps.



All done and just a minor trim next time to get it looking very neat.




I messed up on the hinges. I got larger than will fit the bottom board and side of the hive  I bought with the intention for nice beefy hinges. Oh well. My "calculated" 1A V-belt for my grain mill was also done wrong by the transmission shop and was too small so I will have another day tomorrow driving back to all the shops getting all my gear sorted out.

Packed up the shed and called it a night and time to post some photos.
A nice parting shot





Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

O said:


> FROM ANOTHER FORUM POST TODAY:
> 
> 
> Another Forum said:
> 
> 
> 
> HI every one. I am here because I have just got back into bee keeping. 4 years ago I became allergic to honey bee stings. I ended up in emergency room . I was told not to do bees again but I wanted to do it so bad I went to see an Allergist doctor. I was tested and then recieved shots to build my system up. Well I am cured. I started late this spring with just 4 langstroth hives. I have been stung alot of times so far and no reaction. I have been stinging myself about 4 times a week to boost myself up. I feel great! So now that I am back into the bees again I can,t believe the price of bees now. I would like to go TOP BAR. I have mites in my hives right now and don,t want to use chemicals any more. I really like the Idea of TOP BARS. So I will be reading all the info anyone has to offer.
> 
> 
> look forward to everyones posts
> Ron R.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete
Click to expand...


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## pdilley

Time out for Warre Hive, The "Vertical" Top Bar Hive

Said to be one of the best hives for bee health.

Difference is you only open it once a year, to harvest, and you stack new boxes under the previous boxes. Brood stays up at the top of the hive where heat is. All the comb below becomes honey stores.


View from above on a box with brood comb: 




Box turned on its side so you can see Brood from below. Note the queen cell on the left side. For swarm prevention those COULD be removed, but I strongly suggest to work with natural swarms: 




Box turned on its side so you can see Honey comb from below. Note how small the gaps between the combs become: 




Some more bee art&style: 








Warre Hive assembled and in the field.







Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

Swarm Capture Hive Finished!

I can not believe that when I order some bees wax on a Monday they don't get around to shipping out my order until Friday!

I won't get my beeswax until Monday so I can not make a proper BeesWax + Linseed oil finish for this first swarm capture hive.
I also can not finish the top bars with waxed string as a starter guide for the bees.

Instead I will drop the hive off at the Bee Club Presidents house tomorrow and bring my soldering iron, some jute string to run down the middle of each top bar, and two clamps to hold the string in place as I drip wax. I will buy a small amount of beeswax from them and show them first hand how the hive top bars are made. In 20 minutes I should have all the top bars ready to go.

I still have to get to the the Two Dollar Shop to find the aromatherapy section and buy a jar of LEMON GRASS OIL. Some of that oil inside the hive will make the bees swarm inside like no tomorrow as it is a bee attractant.

Finished Swarm Hive with its New Lid. Now the bars are covered and they won't come loose while bouncing around in the back of the Swarm Collector's car.




Long Hives - Hinging and Latching the Floors

I got the wrong size hinges so back to Bunnings to get the 70mm hinges. They seem to fit the 21mm thick plywood just perfectly.

2 Long Hives hinged, and latched and ready for legs, top bars and a roof/cover.



3rd Long Hive hinged and latched. Close up of my latch system.



Example of the bottom floor in action. Open for Summer and mite control, closed for Winter and keeping drafty wind away from the bees.





I'm off to Bunnings to get some bolts, nuts and washers and some wood for legs to put on these Long Hives.

36" Long Legs should get the Hive up to 34" height. 1"x3" wood or metric equivalent.
12 sets of those and 24 sets of bolts, nuts and washers and I am set to get legs on all these hives.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

Storm brewing out there tonight. Got Rain, Got Hail and now its Dark, Cloudy and Blowing a Gale.


Finished early working tonight only 6PM 

Long Hives With Legs
Bunnings had shorts already cut up. 70mm thick by 900mm long. Just the thing! No cutting them up. Just drill and bolt on with 5/16th inch hardware.



Leg Detail of Long Hives
Its a shame I am going to have to dismantle all these hives to get all the hardware off when the BeesWax arrives in the mail so I can do a proper weather proofing seal of BeesWax + Linseed oil before re-assembling everything so that no piece of wood misses out on a protective weather seal.



Potential Honey Bars
Size is 41mm, a Honey Bar size conversion from US Size was 38-39mm I am hoping the extra 2mm won't need to be sawn off. Will save heaps of time cutting these up and using them right away!



Honey Bars Wood Detail
Mmmmmmm I dream of honey!




Off to cook dinner 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## O'Henry

Brewer Pete said:


> O'Henry ITS NOT OVER YET!!!
> 
> FROM ANOTHER FORUM POST TODAY:
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



You have got me excited now. I am about 60% through my epic run of shots. All up it will be around 60 needles, so I am looking forward to seeing the end of it. My allergy specialist told me to give the bees up (I think she is a little paranoid. She also said don't walk on the beach barefoot), but as soon as all my injections are finished I am going to go out, find a bee and sting myself with my epipen nearby, just in case. Then we shall see...


----------



## pdilley

Just got back from the President of the Bee club.

Lovely folks! The ACT is so lucky to have them. They saw my top bar hive and I gave them a first hand demonstration of preparing a top bar by waxing string to the bar.

In no time at all I was done with every bar and then smiled as next club meeting it is "How to build your own frames for a Langstroth Hive" -- That will be a lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of wood used and when done a huge amount of wax compared to the small amount I dribbled on the string.

They kindly gave me two chunks of waste wax for free because it was so small. It still had propolis and some trapped honey. The honey was lovely, amazing how different than the store. You know I sucked it out! 

After getting back I spent the afternoon cutting the decking in half to make each individual top bar.

Then I waxed the string onto them with a soldering iron.

OMG Trent! The smells of hot beeswax and left over honey being atomised by the hot soldering iron... My Shed was so full of beeswax and sweet honey smells that speaking as a Mead brewer, I had to leave the shed because I was getting excited!  Dave so has to try this.. I am so going to be making heaps of natural bees wax candles for the house when I'm harvesting. The smell is just amazing! Its like brewing Mead but 100 times more potent and yummy!

Anyway before I get carried away. Back to ground level to tell O'Henry, Trent, and everyone else that you should go down to your outdoors store and ask for the "Mosquito Electric Zapper Thing" a small Piezo-Electric device just like your BBQ Ignition device that you electrocute in a split second any mosquito bite or BEE STING.

People who are VERY allergic to bees and swell up bad have used this device and had ZERO swelling or reaction like they normally did. It works really well! The president of the bee club showed me theirs and it is just like a BBQ starter but fits in your pocket and has a neck string.


Ok photo time.

I finished off almost 2 1/2 stacked rows of top bars. I was not planning on having 3 Long Hives and 2 Swarm Hives so I may need to get some more wood to rip into brood bars.

Rows and Rows of Top Bars already waxed and stringed. I did all this in a few hours. Lost count how many bars but I'd hate to try and make that many Langstroth Frames in as little time 



Close up of the bars so you can see how you don't need to be neat or take forever being a precision freak. The bees won't care either way.



Left over chunk of wax. I only used a chunk this wide and about 2/3rd or less of a top bar length (10" or so long?) Of non-solid wax that had hollow pockets to do all these bars! Imagine how much would need to be melted to make a full foundation for each frame in a traditional hive.



Note that these are ALL brood bars.


I will have to go to Home Depot and pick up some of those other 41mm wide hardwood bars to use as Honey Bars. Once I make a whole bunch of those honey bars up I will rip some more decking bars.

I am planning on 2/3rds of each hive in Brood Bars and 1/3rd in Honey Bars. I may get very productive queen so one hive might be all brood bars.

Once the bottom Kenyan hives are full I plan on adding some supers, boxes full of honey bar wide top bars and completely square so large giant bars of pure honey will be made if the season goes great this year for nectar flow!


I am so loving this! Great hobby especially for a brewer and someone who loves their Mead.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## mash head

Good luck with the apiary pete.
You can bag the old langstroth hive system as much as you like but you wont sell me on your alternative designs. 
When it comes to reactions to bee stings I am pretty lucky that I am not allergic because one night while shifting bees we managed to drop a pallet full of bee hives off the front of the forklift from about 1.5 meters height and were they ever pissed at us, I lost count after about 30 stings. 
Once you are actually doing some beekeeping you wont be such a tight arse with your wax because every extaction will produce a good supply. Dont get too stung up mate. Greg


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## pdilley

No worries Greg,

This system produces less than a Lanstroth so there is no way a primary producer will switch to this system as its not designed to save labour or be trucked around or forklifted. This is for the one or two hives in the backyard hobbyist who does not want backpains of lifting langs manually without aid of equipment. Exact opposite ends of the spectum, Low tech and capital investment-Higher Labour versus High-Tech and capital investment-Lower Labour.

For commercial you should look up what the Slavs are doing. Using lang frames in a cartridge system in massive elevated bee houses. Processing is done in the house with large automatic brush/vac systems that strip a frame of bees in seconds and into the extractor with the frame. A trailer of 55 gallon drums are backed up underneath the bee house and honey is loaded and trucked out.

With the top bar system its not being tight arse. This is done to a new hive. After you have bees draw comb you never will wax or string a single bar again. So you will end up with heaps of wax for sale and none going back into comb. Harvest is always comb honey so bars with a cut comb still have a few cm of comb left on them. These harvested bars go back into the hive. Bees always draw new comb so no worries of fat soluble chemical buildup in the wax of reused comb in this system.

Harvest is as low tech as you can get. Cut comb into bucket. Smashed and left in muslin in jar to drip free of the wax. Wax goes into the solar wax melter to form wax bars. You can build a home made press if you want to kick it up a notch.

This compares to a langstroth setup with an electic wax capper and multi-frame extractor machine. For backyard hobby beekeepers these are quite costly to pay for out of pocket as they are not in it for a business venture with money on yhe line and wanting to cut the labour compenent as much as possible.

I have a couple people at work building hives now as well. One wants heaps of honey to sell and wants to make more money raising queens. He's building a Lanstroth based setup. The other is a woodworker who wants honey for his nee family and any extra to sell at the local open air markets, he's building top bar hives. Both are buolding the right hives for themselves.

I am not selling honey, don't even feel like selling wax. I am not breeding queens or selling queens or hive starter kits. I just brew Mead. For me the top bar system appeals.

Only thing I need is two laying hens and I have my own self sufficiency complete. Milling my own flour, making my own bread, chickens for eggs, cracky own grains, brew my own meads and beers. I'm prety chuffed


I think I'll draw the line at getting my own cow, but I have thought about it!
Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## troopa

Cows are good but Goats are better .. and smaller 

Tom


----------



## pdilley

Troopa said:


> Cows are good but Goats are better .. and smaller
> 
> Tom



Mmm goat  maybe.

Looked at a 1/2 acre property so could have run a cow  but the drive would have been too long so skipped it.


Nothing to show picture wise on the TBH construction as I just pulled all the hives apart hardware wise and have been putting on a 1:20 mixture of BeesWax to Boiled Linseed Oil.. Heated up in a double boiler and then liberally painted on the bare wood. Smells lovely.


For those who like Wikipedia, there is a Top Bar Hive Webpage there.


Some pictures to look at while watching the paint dry:

Bees inside a new Top Bar Hive



Bees making new comb on a waxed string top bar



Bees working furiously to make the comb nice and big



Bees drawing comb as seen inside the hive on the waxed strings



Close up of happy bees making comb the exact size they require for their needs





Some Good Training Photographs

Brood, Capped Brood (memorize the shape, texture and colour of the caps and compare to honey that is capped), a single Drone in the lower left corner (bigger bee with large eyes), and a diagonal run of comb filled with Bee Bread in the lower left corner.




Eggs laid by Queen with grubs facing directly up when viewed from top of cell. Because the Queen is so hard to find in a large colony you look for new eggs to see if she is still present and laying in the colony. Just look for the little pieces of rice in the cells.




Awww cute, they look like little furry puppies! from planet Mars 




Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## raven19

SWMBO loves the perfect honeycomb shapes they form.

Amazing and very informative pics there BP.

Continue to keep us posted...


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## ~MikE

damn, this looks interesting. i won't be getting into it this year though, too much shit on. 



O said:


> how much does it cost to cure a bee sting allergy?


----------



## pdilley

Don't know myself how much allergy shots are. Never had them before.


Top Bar Long Bee Hive #1 Finished!

Two angles of shots of Hive #1 Next to the shed for now.

I will get out the spirit level later on in the week and get the hive nice and level before the bees arrive!

I already had a little bee fly by and inspect my work. I can't explain the feeling. Never minded the bees before but this little girl was curious. She then went of and inspected my circular saw so I don't know if she put two and two together or not 

Bee Hive #1 Angle #1




Bee Hive #1 Angle #2




Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Top Bar Long Bee Hive #2 Finished!

Two angles of shots of Hive #2 Next to the middle of garden raised bed #2 for now.

I will get out the spirit level later on in the week and get the hive nice and level before the bees arrive!

Bee Hive #2 Angle #1



Bee Hive #2 Angle #2



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


Chicken House and Chickens arriving next week


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## DKS

Great work Pete please keep us up to date 
Do ants pose a problem I assume after a while there would be pickings for them under the hives?
Have a go at the chooks. Theyre great but dont get too many you can only eat so many eggs and giving them away is a nice idea but feeding more than you need gets to be a bit of a PITA. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## ~MikE

I'm definitely going to ring up and ask about those shots, you've got me really interested. those hives look very nice.


----------



## pdilley

Cheers guys,

I ran out of the thin ply making the two long hive tops so hive#3 will have to wait until I can get another from Bunnings. I saved 8 Honey Bars from being waxed as I need to cut kerfs down their length and use some of the thin ply to make divider boards (thin ply cut to inside shape of hive). That way I can mix and match the shape of the hive inside: You can split a Hive in three or two or one. You can adjust a hives ends out to keep up with bees. Or in winter you can use the space between the dividers and the ends of the hive box to stuff with straw or paper or other insulation to help the bees overwinter. I already have plans for phase#2 which is to add a gable roof from ply to the now flat rain proof tops and then use the space inside as more straw stuffing space in winter. In spring straw can be removed and scattered as mulch.

Ants should not be a problem but this hive design is easiest of designs to control ants. You simply put the bricks in containers (ice cream etc) and fill them with water or oil and anything trying to get to the legs will drown. Those few that make it are easily dealt with by the bees themselves.

Chooks are social so one only is off the cards. I was thinking of two or three and no more.

I have a local brewer with farm ties so I will be getting 180 kilo of wheat for brewing beers, chooks and secret project that is unfortunately delayed due to mill being replaced for a non-faulty one. Could get 140 kilo of barley too 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

One final shot. Ready for action!



Smoker, bee keeping full-length-suit with zippers and velcro, past-the-elbow-length gloves.

Should not need all the gear on at once except end of season and for any hot hives attacked by wasps or other predator threats that set them off in a bad mood for a few weeks.

View was integrated so I'll probably get a separate veil I can use with a regular shirt and pants for the more common beek sessions with the bees through the year. Will have to give up my favourite black shirts when tending bees as they will think I'm some big black bear and go for me most likely. A few other colours are out for bees but I believe what I've read that they can not see the colour red. Keep the ladies back with their smelly perfumes and hair sprays, even the bees think they are offensive smelling! hehe h34r: 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## O'Henry

~MikE said:


> damn, this looks interesting. i won't be getting into it this year though, too much shit on.
> 
> 
> 
> how much does it cost to cure a bee sting allergy?



Well I had to get a referal and then go to the specialist, which all up was around $300. I don't really remember though, it was last year. Then it is just a matter of getting injected weekly until you are immune. Some docs do it in about 8 weeks, others do it over a year. Depends on the circumstances and the severity of the allergies. And the weekly injections are usually bulk billed. But once you are 'immune' I am not sure how successful it would be at preventing a reaction to numerous stings. Good for 1, fair good for 2, then it is unknown, I think...


----------



## Pete2501

Brewer Pete said:


> Smoker, bee keeping full-length-suit with zippers and velcro, past-the-elbow-length gloves.
> 
> Should not need all the gear on at once except end of season and for any hot hives attacked by wasps or other predator threats that set them off in a bad mood for a few weeks.



My uncle keeps bees so i was a bit confused until i read the part about wasps etc. 

You'll eventually get stung so much your body won't react. Bees are friggin awesome.


----------



## Pete2501

Just looking at the setup if you have issues with ants just immerse your legs in tins full of oil or something. 

I hear that works a treat ^_^


----------



## mrpolly

If you did have an ant problem you could add dish washing liquid to the water to break the surface tension.


----------



## raven19

Brewer Pete said:


> Chooks are social so one only is off the cards. I was thinking of two or three and no more.



Those chooks will love the spent grain too Pete. Keep in mind you will need to mash it with malted grain for the enzyme action to occur, I am contemplating a similar plan when I get some barley off my brother in laws folks.

Keep those piccies coming mate, great work thus far.


----------



## ~MikE

O said:


> been doing a lot of reading on this today. i think i'll go the immunotherapy even if i give beeking a miss, as i'm too friggen lazy to make sure i've got fresh adrenaline on me (the last stuff ran out years ago i think). the maintenance shots are 2 bee stings worth once a month? so if once immune and off the maintenance shots, couldn't you maintain your immunity with regular stinging in a similar fashion?


----------



## pdilley

~MikE said:


> the maintenance shots are 2 bee stings worth once a month? so if once immune and off the maintenance shots, couldn't you maintain your immunity with regular stinging in a similar fashion?



I'm no expert as I have not had an issue (yet) but from the post quote further above from the guy from the states who went through it and got cured and started bee keeping again but this time with Top Bar Hives was that he just uses a few regular bee stings to keep his immunity going. The body is a strange thing how it can sometimes not ever get a reaction and other times people just flip and go allergic reaction after a lifetime of no issues.

I know a lot of the non-degenerative Multiple Sclerosis people seem to seek out bee stings as part of bee sting therapy. That stimulation of the nerves through venom and making it regrow and recover must do wonders for the few that react so well and get years of steroid free relief from a few stings every few years.


Ok now one last photograph should be enough to get the basic education complete.


Capped Honey this time in the Comb



Now how different does capped honey look to capped brood. Can you tell the difference? 

You are on your way now to identifying most of the basic items you will see inside the hive. 

Last on the list is a Queen Cell in the comb



On the top bar hive you will see these along the outer edge of your comb. This queen cell is a "Swarm" queen cell on top bars when on the edges. These are made most often when bees run out of room to expand the hive or you are slow keeping up and adding more bars if using divider boards in your hive. Or sometimes because they just plain feel like it. Bees don't read rule books 

On a top bar hive if the cell is built into the comb in the middle it usually means the cell is a "Succession" queen cell. This means the old queen is about to go or the workers are about to give up on her so they made a queen cell for a queen to replace her. Provided the old queen does not find the cell and sting the new queen to death inside you will have a colony that automatically re-queens itself.

The last type is when you see a normal cell extended to make a new queen cell in a quick and slightly sloppy fashion. This is an "Emergency" queen cell. Usually when your Queen dies and the workers suddenly find her gone they go out of sync and don't get much work done unless a new queen is made. If you have brand new grubs they can expand a cell and feed the grub like a queen and hopefully get a new queen to replace the missing one. If this can not take place or the new queen does not return from the mating flight you will likely slowly lose the hive as it dies off from lack of new brood. Just move the bars to another (or stronger) hive with a Queen. Using newspaper you can separate the bees from each other in the Top Bar hive so they don't attack each other. By the time they can chew through the paper they are used to each others scent and will normally get along. If not dust them in powdered sugar to mask the scent and give them something to do like licking themselves instead of killing each other.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete



PS. That ends the construction post unless people want to keep on talking about it. Or ask for updates as the season goes on. My first year I expect little if any honey and use the year to let the bees build up big colony population. Then next year the survivors are ready to attack the nectar in force and work mostly on storing excess honey.

EDIT: Also the large honey numbers of hives from the traditional beeks and monks who keep bees seems to be from excessive feeding of sugar syrup-water to the bees. Realistic pure unadulterated honey amounts are much less per hive. Abbe Warre the monk said expect 30kg/year per hive for a realistic number. Time will tell and we will just have to see how the bees react a year or two from now for good numbers.


----------



## pdilley

raven19 said:


> Those chooks will love the spent grain too Pete. Keep in mind you will need to mash it with malted grain for the enzyme action to occur, I am contemplating a similar plan when I get some barley off my brother in laws folks.
> 
> Keep those piccies coming mate, great work thus far.



One last slightly OT post.

Barley is warming so you have to cut the quantity back in summer, Wheat can be year round, corn is warming so cut back in summer.

Also Barley can be bad for chooks as it sometimes blocks up the cloaca (spelling?) and the chooks get stuck trying to pass an egg (no idea about spent barley from beer brewing, should be ok as more ruffage than standard barley). An egg bound chook needs a massage  or some hot steam to help the muscles relax. So I'm planning on giving them mostly wheat and a little barley and plenty of kitchen scraps plus all the bugs (tons of them) in the garden they can dig up.

There are probably as many foxes in Australia's cities as there are in all of the country areas. So keep that in mind when designing a chook house.

Ducks are easier to keep contained and won't peck plants as much. Not sure if the chooks are very plant destructive so will keep an eye on them. Especially in my Beer Hop Garden beds!  Its recommended to keep one or the other (chooks or ducks) but not both in a small back yard.


Cheers for all the replies guys, good convo topics for sure,
Brewer Pete


----------



## O'Henry

~MikE said:


> been doing a lot of reading on this today. i think i'll go the immunotherapy even if i give beeking a miss, as i'm too friggen lazy to make sure i've got fresh adrenaline on me (the last stuff ran out years ago i think). the maintenance shots are 2 bee stings worth once a month? so if once immune and off the maintenance shots, couldn't you maintain your immunity with regular stinging in a similar fashion?



I have forgotten how long you need to have the maintenance shots for. But they are worth two stings and I think you need to get them for quite a while... Will ask the specialist next time I speak to her.


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## DKS

Yes, chooks love a vege patch especially any young plants. Whilst the best thing for your garden is the chook poop, you cant let em anywhere near it. It only takes a second and months of work can be pecked to pieces. Another point is if you use chemicals for bugs and pests it will effect the chooks if they feed there.
Daz.


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## white.grant

DKS said:


> Yes, chooks love a vege patch especially any young plants. Whilst the best thing for your garden is the chook poop, you cant let em anywhere near it. It only takes a second and months of work can be pecked to pieces. Another point is if you use chemicals for bugs and pests it will effect the chooks if they feed there.
> Daz.




Mollinson suggest using a "chicken tractor" and its efectie at getting the ground dug and keeping the fowls out of the greens. I made up some chicken wire frames and could fence off parts of the vege patch and trap the chooks in. The chooks would scratch out the weeds and bugs and poo in the fertiliser, leaving you with a nice tilth ready for the spring. Beats digging

cheers

grant


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## pdilley

Ok chaps,

Quick note, finished the chook house and got 3 point-of-lay chooks this past Sunday. Spent time with the very tame and very quiet girls clucking around the yard digging up juicy large fat grubs out of old tree trunk segments in the yard for them. Got 3 lovely eggs this morning in return for my efforts 

Yes the chook house design is a Tractor design so you can move the chook run to a new place in the yard and then move the chook house against it and it sits together like so. Keeps the chicken manure spread all over the garden.

This is more fancy than mine but same basic idea and shape. Mine does not have shuttered alpine home windows on it and is half as tall. Designed for about 4 chooks maybe 5 tops. Being smaller I sewed hardware cloth all along the bottom. Yes they don't scratch as they free range every day under care of the wife so its now fox proof and cat proof and straw inside the house that can be changed out regularly.



Did I say how much of a pack of funny buggars they are to watch 


Bees!!

It's Floriade! so Bee Swarm Season is upon us! Can't wait for my first swarm, feel like an expectant father 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Henno

I'm so glad the photo isn't actually your chook tractor BP. I'm a bit intimidated about building the bee hives coz of my lack of wood working skills. If I knew you were the kind of guy that put fancy windows in his chook house I would have given up. Still might give up yet. Can't get my head around the plans.

Why are you excited about swarm season? Will a swarm come to your new hives? I thought you had to go and get a swarm from a beek that had collected one from somebody who wanted one gone from their property or something.

Cheers
H


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## pdilley

Will it help if I say I got an old chook tractor house+run for trade for some JAO Mead I brewed? Just needed to repair all the rotten wood, redo every join, sew on floor wire, and allsorts of tiny chores that sucked uo an entire day until sundown.

I wouldn't turn anything like that out and I could still knock out bee hives 

Ask away on any plan, wood, tool, or general idea concept and I or the guys will help sort you out.

I did all mine with a circular saw, battery powered drill for holes and putting in screws in the holes, a big carpenter square like in the pdf from Bunnings, a childs thick learners pencil from two dollar shop for lead that wont break when marking wood, and some outdoor glue. Oh and a sheet of 21mm C/D Ply from Bunnings to cut out the rectangle and square pieces to make up the hive. I also have some large black chinese made carpenter protractor thingy I probably got from Bunnings.

If you know even someone with rudementary wood skills (just making a fancy box and a million times less complex than a traditional bee hive) then ply him with beers in exchange or chip in materials so he can keep a hive for himself. 

Mine is not the Taj Mahal and its not perfect on every corner, cut or join. Bees don't care, they patch up all the little cracks and minor gaps.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

EDIT: Im sure I have seen top bar hive (kits?) for sale in Australia -- just that I am not in that market since I can handle building simple box structures. 


PS Swarm Season means the collector will take my mini hive out soon so I will be driving to his place any night now to pick up my first swarm of bees to transfer to the big hive then put empty brood bars back on the small hive and drive back to collector's house to be next on the end of the roster for swarm number two.


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## pdilley

I think I realised what you might be asking!

Yes you can set up a hive as a "bait hive" usually with the addition of Lemon Grass Essential Oil giving it an attractant scent to the bees. And yes sometimes you get local swarms that will smell out the bait hive and start moving inside it.

It is not a reliable method so swarm collectors are relied upon to get a mucb better chance of getting a eild swarm to put in the hives you built.

And yes, even then sometimes a swarm might get wierd and decide to go out of your hive and go somewhere else in those first few days.

All par for the course.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Sydneybrewer

looks great guys, :icon_chickcheers: i would have loved to do this but the fiance now tells me she is alergic to bees, this coupled with the fact she read somewhere that hops are poisonous to dogs :blink:


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## Henno

Sydneybrewer said:


> looks great guys, :icon_chickcheers: i would have loved to do this but the fiance now tells me she is alergic to bees, this coupled with the fact she read somewhere that hops are poisonous to dogs :blink:



What a shame, I bet you're going to miss her


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## Supra-Jim

Sydneybrewer said:


> the fact she read somewhere that hops are poisonous to dogs :blink:



Unfortunately this is true. i have a lovely spot perfect for growing hops, unfortunately i enjoy the company of my little brewing assistant (and chief garage security officer) too much to risk planting hops!

Love the idea of the bee hive, but with little kids (under 3yrs) running around the back yard this is not feasible.

Am currently investigating chooks though, a couple of those little buggers would be quite handy.

Cheers SJ


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## Leigh

Was just informed about the launch of a docu on honey bee mites that might interest people on here. Docu is called "Honeybee Blues". Stole the synopsis below from the newsletter:



> The documentary provides an insight into the threats that Australian honeybees face, including the tiny parasitic mite called Varroa (V destructor and V jacobsoni), which are killing honeybees overseas.



Honeybee Blues will be screened on SBS on 17 November at 7.30 pm. 

Attached pic shows a varrao mite on a honeybee


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## Supra-Jim

^^ I remember seeing a 60Minutes piece on the same issue. Does appear to be a tad concerning, esp when you consider how important bees are in the grand scheme of things.

Being one of the few countries still free of this mite, it certainly does highlight the importance of strict quaranteen and customs control.

Cheers SJ


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## ~MikE

Supra-Jim said:


> Unfortunately this is true. i have a lovely spot perfect for growing hops, unfortunately i enjoy the company of my little brewing assistant (and chief garage security officer) too much to risk planting hops!



meh i often dump my kettle dregs on the lawn, the dog will sit there getting hosed and won't budge if he's eating mash but doesn't touch the hops...


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## pdilley

Bee Hives and kids is psychological:

Installing Bees in a Top Bar Hive, by a new family of newbees, kids loving it 




Chooks are very handy. I found a medium black beetle in my hops potted inside. I took it outside in a tissue and in less than two clucks to the chickens one crunched it up and munched it down before I had my hand off the tissue 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## himzol

Hi pete,

Just curious... Granfather used to keep bees "in the old country" 

I have a wild hive on my property, six meters up in a dead gum tree. If I built one of these boxes and enticed a swarm into said box, would this upset the wild hive? Basically I like having the wild hive there and don't want to pi$$ them off.

Himzo.


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## pdilley

If you left the hive nearby in swarm season with some Lemon Grass Essential Oil scenting it up nice you might get the swarm to occupy it. It will not upset the tree wild hive as the swarm is 1/2 the colony plus the old queen leaving and letting the new queen and the remaining half of the hive have a go at running the old hive.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## himzol

Brewer Pete said:


> If you left the hive nearby in swarm season with some Lemon Grass Essential Oil scenting it up nice you might get the swarm to occupy it. It will not upset the tree wild hive as the swarm is 1/2 the colony plus the old queen leaving and letting the new queen and the remaining half of the hive have a go at running the old hive.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Thanks,

I'll see How I go at building one of these, the great thing is if I can't entice the swarm, I still have the wild bees for my vegies and fruit trees etc...

thanks 

Himzo.


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## Batz

How do you exclude the queens from the frames to be harvested?
Have you a beetle trap in there some place?

Sorry if it's already been covered..long thread this, I did have a hive a while back in WA and intend getting another soon.

Batz


----------



## pdilley

Batz said:


> How do you exclude the queens from the frames to be harvested?
> Have you a beetle trap in there some place?




Bees naturally exclude the Queen (push her away from) Honey only bars so no Queen Excluder needed.

No Beetle Traps. Canberra is Beetle Free, they can not borrow through the hard soils to complete their life cycle! Beetle migration stopped dead in its tracks  Hence Ilawara bee keepers dumping their hives in Canberra surrounds for two to three months out of the year.


That said you can adapt Lang feeders and gear if you want. Not necessary. This is a hive that you can practice different bee keeping if you choose too. But if you are keen on putting drugs/pesticides inside no one can stop you but your bees will be healthier if you let weak colonies die off and not breed back into the gene pool.

This is a bridging step, the best hive design for bee/colony health might not be able to be kept if you local regulations. That would be the vertical top bar hive. The horizontal top bar gets you very close while still being legal in just about every jurisdiction in Australia as it is fully inspection capable. Even if those inspections are causing the bee health to suffer. We are talking in the range of only 2kg honey stores used in a Vertical Top Bar hive overwinter for a bee colony to survive versus up to 16kg honey in a traditional hive just so the bees can generate heat to keep the hive warm enough and colony going over winter. Even the horiztonal top bar can not match the vertical top bar in being the best fit for bee colony health over winter but again its the best you can do until someone amends the regulations to update them to accommodate hives that are opened once per year.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

First Swarm of Bees are in my small swarm capture hive!

This happy Bee Father will pick up my swarm tonight after they have re-entered the hive and give them a drive back to their new home.

Planning on letting them live and build out comb in the small hive until the weekend when I have more time to transfer them to their new big hive home with divider boards making it seem smaller and cosier and easier for them to keep warm until they build their hive size and numbers up.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

Brewer Pete said:


> First Swarm of Bees are in my small swarm capture hive!



W00t. This is what I've been waiting for. Looking forward to piccies over the next few weeks - good luck!


----------



## pdilley

My girls are home, its dark outside and I just pulled the rubber stopper that was in the hole for transportation purposes.

Before pulling I stuck my ear to the top lid and heard the lovely droning of beating wings warming up the hive interior.


Lovely!


Can't wait to see my girls in person tomorrow when I get home from work.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## raven19

Pete, please continue to keep us posted on this - fascinating stuff. One day when I own a farm.....  ..... I may have bees.


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## pdilley

raven19 said:


> Pete, please continue to keep us posted on this - fascinating stuff. One day when I own a farm.....  ..... I may have bees.



No need to have a farm. Just get cracking in the back yard in the city 


Pictures of My Girls!

I put the small Swarm Capture Top Bar Hive on top of the cover of my Long Top Bar Hive which will eventually be all theirs to build out and develop.



The top makes for a very nice landing pad for the bees as they fly around in circles and build a mental map of where the bee hive is in location wise to everything else in their environment.



This is an early swarm. And unfortunate for them the weather turned to a rainy week ahead with very little nectar gathering opportunity.

Because the swarm is running out of the gorged honey they ate before they swarmed from their original hive they will most likely be in a starving state.

Normally I would leave them to fend for themselves but I decided they would get Bee Fondant Candy to give them a head start on replenishing energy to build up hive heat and start drawing out lots of wax. I will give them until the weekend to build out as much as they can then I will start thinking about transferring them into their new Long Top Bar Hive and reset the small Swarm Capture Top Bar Hive with unused bars and get it back to the swarm collector for the next round of bees to join our happy little home! Two more Long Top Bar Hives await!

I had a choice when feeding, a choice to take the Smoker. A choice to instead take a spray bottle of sugar-water to use instead.

I opted for choice #3. No smoker and no spray. My girls had been through enough and I already am tempting fate by opening the hive on an overcast humid day (dust storms blanked out the sky). I was only opening one top bar hive to slide the fondant through that I made up in the kitchen just 30 minutes before.

Using slow movements, and freezing and holding my breath when hearing the one high pitched buzz of a guard bee buzzing around me on opening and all was well. No stings no incidents and the guard flew back down and crawled inside.



Hive was closed up and all was normal, no mad bees. I spent the rest of the evening outside with my girls walking around slowly so they got used to people walking near the hive. No incidents and all was just lovely until it started raining before getting dark so inside to do a post and....




....and A Quick Video of Brewer Pete's First Swarm of Bees!





Hope to get you guys onboard as well soon.

One taste of a successful Mead and I know it will be Chaps Follow Me! time 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## JonnyAnchovy

w00t.

getting really exciting now. Great to see all this finally coming together.


----------



## altone

Brewer Pete said:


> Hope to get you guys onboard as well soon.
> 
> One taste of a successful Mead and I know it will be Chaps Follow Me! time
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Not sure about the mead .. but am gearing up to give this a go next year.

Hope all this great info stays around for a while.

and grats on the new buzzing family


----------



## pdilley

Call To Action!


Don't Miss this Australian Television Event


Record it if you get your DVRs set up in time!

Screening Page: http://www.screenaustralia.gov.au/showcases/honeybeeblues/ 

Doctor Denis Anderson: 
http://www.csiro.au/people/ps2dv.html 

Science Alert Article: 
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/features/20093108-19644.html 


A programme that may actually have you feel sad for a poor beleaguered insect under threat globally and get you building your natural beekeeping style Top Bar Hives and practicing natural ecological beekeeping and strengthening the genes by letting the weak die out and only letting the strong breed back into the gene pool.



Just when you thought Varroa destructor was bad enough, Varroa jacobsoni has been discovered hovering off Australia and Asian honeybees capable of spreading them are already starting to be found in Queensland. 




> Currently, the only defenses we have are chemical treatments that the mites eventually develop resistant to, but this is a toxic treadmill that Dr Anderson would like to stop. He believes the ultimate answer lies in the genes of the honeybee. He wants to identify the gene in the developing larva that sends the chemical signal that tells the mite it is the right time to reproduce. Then he wants to switch it off. If he is successful, it may help save the European honeybee from annihilation.
> 
> This crucial research, however, is being stymied by a lack of funding. Recently, the Federal Government knocked back a request by a special parliamentary committee for $50 million for bio-security measures, research, education and training to protect Australias honeybee and pollination industries. Only a small amount of funding ($150,000 a year for the next two years) has been provided for existing bio-security measures.
> 
> As for the research, education and training that is so desperately needed, the Government expects agricultural industries to contribute funds through a newly created alliance between the honeybee and pollination industries called Pollination Australia. So far, $357,000 has been committed but, according to Dr Anderson this falls far short of what is required.





Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Poor girls! 2 Weeks of on again off again rain!

They got their opportunity to move into the large hive. Because I had an hour window or so projected into today rain.

So, SWARM TRANSFER TIME!!



Armaments of choice.
1. Bee Suit and Gloves
2. Spray bottle of 1:1 ratio of Sugar/Water syrup.. I ended up using a brew bottle as the store bought bottle had a hole in the plastic (grr)
3. Bread Knife ($2 shop special!)

Wife kindly took the photos but I will skip the bit at the beginning of setup to go straight into the action.




Photo 1. Storm just behind me, got the plastic table out to hold the small bee hive temporarily as I transfer. Got my gear and my trusty sidekick chooks ready to go. Just need to remove all the bars I left on the Long Top Bar Hive first so I can put the Swarm Capture Hive bars in their place.



Photo 2. Lets pop the top on the Swarm Hive and get transferring! A little spray of sugar syrup and the bees all calmed down instantly after pulling that first bar and never needed the smoker one bit. Which was a good thing as I deliberately left it inside!




Photo 3. First bar of beautiful natural virgin drawn bee comb! Woo hoo!




Photo 4. Second bar of comb, some capped cells already! And Murphy has his way and it starts raining on my head. Concentration is tight now, I am watching them to see their reaction to getting splashed with rain drops. Just stay calm and transfer them in to the Long Top Bar Hive in the same position and orientation as they come out.




Photo 5. Lost Count of how many bars I am pulling out with comb already drawn out on them, I am more focused on the temperament of the bees and the rain. I think we are now on 4th bar of comb transferred. The wife ducked back in when it started to rain and then came out again. Its amazing how much work they got done in just two weeks and in mostly raining days. I think they deserved that fondant candy addition on the first day before the two weeks of stormy days hit.




Continued in next post!



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Photo 6. I am still getting pelted with rain but still going through it as calm and methodical as possible. You can see the sugar spray bottle is starting to suck in. I think I overdid the spraying so note to self next time when conditions are nicer try to use as little spray and see how the bees react before giving them a spritz.




Photo 7. Concentration is really coming on now 




Photo 8. I've now done half the swarm capture hive which is about 6 bars and everyone has comb on it. Its about now that the wife stopped taking photos as a few bees were buzzing over near her and she didn't feel as comfortable yet around them seeing as I'm the one with the bee suit on 


Thats it for photos. Another 3 or so bars had construction of comb on them and the rain let up a bit to let me get them hived and put the top back on before it finally let up and gave us some more sunshine for another hour and a half or so.


I turned on the movie portion of the camera and did a post transfer one minute movie which I will put on YouTube and post a link to here.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## white.grant

Most impressive, especially your facial expressions  . The comb looks great, and in two weeks!

cheers

grant


----------



## pdilley

I think it will take me the full bee season this year to get used to hunreds or thousands of bees swarming around me while doing hive work  Funny enough I can stand one foot away from the hive entrance with nothing on but normal clothes and even bend down and watch the bees and let them land on me for hours but as soon as its hive manipulation time it becomes a bit nervy the first time through with out using traditional smoker -- especially when feeling rushed by the rain that started half way through the transfer 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Before transfer video:




Post transfer video being uploaded.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

After transfer video:




Now its almost silent outside with only 3 bees at a time coming or going, all back to normal 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## watchUburn

Yes the facial expression is classic  And I notice the poor chooks didn't get a bee-suit...


----------



## himzol

Hi Pete,

I have a couple of questions,

firstly is there a reason for the bottom of the main hive to be open, that is hinged, why not just have it sealed?

secondly, apart from the hive opening being a bit sheltered, is there a reason the sides are a particular angle? 

I hope to build a capture hive this weekend and set it up and was wondering how critical the above were.

I'm not really sure when the bees will swarm from the tree down the hill, the Adelaide hills are a bit cooler so I may still have some time, or is it based on daylight hours. I don't want to build the big hive unless I can capture the swarm.

H.


----------



## pdilley

Hives are angled as it was found most bees won't bridge comb (glue the sides) of the wax comb to the side of the hive with angle as bees build this shape naturally through joining legs and hanging their bee plumb line to build natural comb.

Hinge is open as bottom screen let's any debris and mites fall through. It's still questionable if solid floor or open screen is better. On traditional hives screens aren't very effective but with this mites fall a very long way and before they could get up they would be eaten by ants,
etc.

Built both screen and hinged bottom to test out in Canberra which works better. The golden rule is what works in one part of the world will not necessarily work in anoter so you need to experiment and blaze the trails in your specific area unless another Top Bar Hive Beekeepe has spent years already figuring out what works best in your local area.


There is also half the people for holes along long side for hive manipulation flexibility versus those who think holes at one short end is best so all honey ends up in rear of hive. Jury is out on this as well, takes experimentation to figure out what is best for both your style and your local environment.


Cheers,
Brewe Pete


----------



## pdilley

Hey guys.

I'm about to begin construction of one intermediate construction skills top bar hive. Wonder if you want to see it here or in another post?

This is not one I would recommend jumping into straight away if and only if you are not handy with a saw. I will have a modified plan so that I can use the guillotined edge on one side of the 2.4 x 1.2 ply to make a perfectly straight 1.2 long cutting guide for the hand held circular saw.

After making my straight cut jig for circular saw I will attack the sheet and start building a Warre hive, the "Vertical" Top Bar Hive.

You only get one hive (and one straight cutting jig) out of a single sheet of 2.4 x 1.2 metre ply which includes six boxes to stack the hive with, so you might want to get at least one set of Kenyan Top Bar Hives as already shown above as you get two of those hives out of a single sheet of ply.

Its best to have 2 or 3 hives rather than one hive anyway as you may lose a colony of bees through the year an d having the few extra hives gives you a better chance of having strong colonies make it through the winter and into the following year. So a KTBH horizontal hive is best to knock out at least two of those first.

With the vertical hive you start off with a box or two like this:



As the bees build out you keep putting new boxes *AT THE BOTTOM *and stack it upwards like this:



And what it looks like inside when the bees build natural comb looks like this:



And the vocabulary to describe the parts of the hive is this:



And the old monk who tested 350+ different bee hives including the modern Langstroth hive for over 15 years before making any judgements and came up with the optimum hive of his collection is this guy:





Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## mash head

BP you will fimd the weather on the day that you are working the bees will have alot to do with their temprament, have not read all this post yet but am meaning to if you have any bee keeping questions that I could help with pm me, there are plenty of tricks to manipulate bees mainly involving re queening and breeding up queens would be happy too help if I can. 
Greg


----------



## pdilley

greg simons said:


> BP you will fimd the weather on the day that you are working the bees will have alot to do with their temprament, have not read all this post yet but am meaning to if you have any bee keeping questions that I could help with pm me, there are plenty of tricks to manipulate bees mainly involving re queening and breeding up queens would be happy too help if I can.
> Greg



Cheers Greg,

I will.

My problem is I KNOW I am breaking all the rules but am forced to due to the strange stormy weather that won't let up. 

Thats why I look worried 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## himzol

Hi Pete,

As one who's hobbies include making furniture from wood.. the best straight cut guide for a circular saw comprises of a straight edge piece of wood and some clamps.


the method is :
with saw unplugged, measure from the edge of the cutting blade to the edge of the bottom plate on your saw..clamp your straight edge this distance away from the intended cut.

remember the blade has two edges, make sure to use the correct edge..could be a difference of 3mm or more in your cut.

even though I have a table saw, band saw, several routers, several compound saws and various other machinery, when it comes to cutting large sheets, I still use the above method..

BTW started on my Warre hive on the weekend, starting with laminating some oak boards to get the right thickness, (these are recycled and are only 15mm thick, after dressing they are about 12mm or so) should have the first hive box completed tonight. 
This will deppend on the type of joinery I decide upon, I'm leaning towadrs mitred joints as I am not a great lover of exposed end grain. specially when it is outdoor timber work. 

I will then start on the quilt and roof.. 

I decided on the Warre after doing a lot of reading on the net..

Himzo.


----------



## mash head

Brewer Pete said:


> Cheers Greg,
> 
> I will.
> 
> My problem is I KNOW I am breaking all the rules but am forced to due to the strange stormy weather that won't let up.
> 
> Thats why I look worried
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


It about time we got a bit of rain in spring, but it doesnt help the temprament of those bees .Keep all of your movements slow and dont bump or jolt them helps. Try waving your hand back and forth in front of your face while suited up and just watch how many bees start chasing your hand (glove) trying to sting it. Also dont stink. By that I mean any fuel, aftershave, deoderant, sheep smell from crutching all day (probably just me) or any strong odour you get the picture.
Good luck Greg


----------



## altone

Well as I said earlier in this thread I was thinking of trying this next year with a Kenyan top bar hive,
but as BrewerPete already knows a swarm adopted me and set up home in an empty plastic compost bin.

So I brought my plans forward a bit  

I built a 1200mm hive almost exactly the same as shown earlier in the thread 
(used nice thick ply from Bunnings and ripped 35mm top bars and hive legs from some hardwood decking I had lying around)

Moved the tiny bits of comb (expected there to be more), and of course the bees to their new home and all seems well so far.

Sorry, no pics.. SWMBO isn't brave enough to go outside and hold the camera.

I like the look of those new hives, if the one I have now goes well I'll be makin' me some of those too.

In case anyones interested I found this link that has some more good info on topbar hives.

And, as for if peeps want you to continue posting new stuff here, I'm a definate yes..


----------



## pdilley

Really quick.


Another great resource is:
http://hirschbachapiary.com/default.aspx

Just so long as you keep in mind the golden rule that what works in their part of the world (Germany in this above link, the State of Georgia in USA in Bod's link) may not work in your part of the world. So ideas are tried out and collectively we build up knowledge of what works or does not work in our local respective areas.

Very exciting time to be in Top Bar Hives as we are all around the world still working out all sorts of things from hive volumes, sizes, bar types, feeders, Integrated Pest Management techniques, and the list is endless. Just read a study where the Top Bar Hives had 100% acceptance by introduced swarms in the study being one of the best for housing new swarms.

Exciting times!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

P.S. Still raining, what is it? Day 3, will finish the cutting guide next day I think.


----------



## pdilley

himzo said:


> As one who's hobbies include making furniture from wood.. the best straight cut guide for a circular saw comprises of a straight edge piece of wood and some clamps.
> 
> the method is :
> with saw unplugged, measure from the edge of the cutting blade to the edge of the bottom plate on your saw..clamp your straight edge this distance away from the intended cut.
> 
> remember the blade has two edges, make sure to use the correct edge..could be a difference of 3mm or more in your cut.
> 
> even though I have a table saw, band saw, several routers, several compound saws and various other machinery, when it comes to cutting large sheets, I still use the above method..




Hey Hiz,

This is indeed a good method for woodworkers to use. For the average Aussie Home Brewer I have made it even simpler and taken away the need to calculate anything for every cut. Cuts out all the stupid mistakes we all make when goofing one calculation and then mis-cutting an expensive sheet of wood.

Not sure where the previous post went?

Only have the new photos with me so looks like I need to re construct it with just words.

The end of a new sheet of ply (all ends really) are guillotine cut nice and straight.

If we take a slice off the end of a sheet of ply we will get a 1.2 metre long strip of wood with a slightly wobbly side where we cut it by hand and the opposite side will be the nice guillotine straight cut.

To remove all future calculations we use about $4-6 worth of additional wood in the form of 9mm sheet of plywood in my example.

We glue the 1.2 metre stip of wood we cut out to the end of the 9mm sheet of plywood with the STRAIGHT side facing inwards to the CENTRE of the ply. We leave our wobbly cut facing outwards.

After gluing, we get rained on for 5 days straight  and because we have a tiny shed we are forced to work outdoors so we sit inside and drink beer and do other things waiting for a nice day to return 

------

Now for the rest of the story!

Put out your three Saw Horses you picked up from the hardware store or built yourself and place the 9mm Sheet of Ply on it as shown.



It is time to remove the clamps as we are done letting the glue dry up and harden completely.



Position your end saw horse near the far edge of the board. When we start cutting we do not want to cut through our saw horse we just bought.



This is the direction we will be cutting. The widest part of your Circular Saw bottom plate will be pressed against the straight side of the thick piece of 1.2 meter long wood we originally cut out. This will act as a guide.



Now cut carefully making sure you put a small amount of pressure to keep the saw up against the straight side nice and flush as you cut down the wood.


Now we are done. You have a very lovely straight cutting jig you can now use to speed up your hive building by a HUGE factor. Not only that you will get straight cuts without needing to buy a Table Saw.




Look how nice and straight and easy it will be to use. Instead of having to do any more calculations again. You simply measure out the wood along each edge to how long you want the piece of cut out wood to be. You line the edge of the cutting jig against the edge mark and simply clamp it down by the thick back portion of the jig. You then do the same to the opposite side and run your Circular Saw down putting the same small amount of pressure pushing the foot plate of the saw against the straight edge of the thick piece of wood. Easy Peasy.




Now instead of calculations to worry about you only have to remember one thing. Keep the fat/thick end of the jig on top of the cut out section. keep the skinny end the blade of the saw runs down pointing towards the centre of the rest of the sheet of wood. Otherwise if you reverse direction you will have to then account for blade thickness and change you line markings by that thickness amount (too much work  )


----------


As an after thought... I then spent the next few hours and almost completely cut up an entire full sheet of 21mm ply for the intermediate hive. 80% done in a little bit of time after "one night home from work" and its almost done. Imagine yourself cutting out two of the horizontal hives already described in this post and already half assembled them in one single night home from work.

Now there is no excuse to not make it in time to build hives for the beginning of the bee season when they swarm in spring.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Quick one, phew! busy with work so little free time, also been working in the shed most nights. 

Quick Update
---------------

When it rains, it pours bee swarms!

Rain finally let up and hot weather coming in strong. 

Just had the busiest bee day ever. Bindi got his bees last Sunday so first Warre Top Bar hive filled in the capital of Australia, Canberra that I know of 

A fellow at work told me there was a swarm on someones push bike in the city so we grabbed a cardboard box and walked across the road and captured that swarm. 

He didn't have a hive so I got a hold of the Bee Association president who was just leaving to capture another swarm and they waited so the fellow could drive over (so much for work) and borrow a 4 frame Nuc (he's a Lang believer). 

Then on the drive over I found out about another swarm and called him on his mobile before he got to their house and he was excited for a second swarm so he got another Lang and will trade parts for a new lang when his shipment gets in from the mail order outfit. 

Meanwhile I'm almost 80% done with my new third hive (fourth?) as my third KTBH got loaned to one of my bosses and he got a swarm today in the swarm capture TBH. (Gave him 1/2 built one and he finished it off in his shed.) 

Now I got a swarm and a massive one at that in my swarm capture TBH. 

Just got back with a boot full of bees and hives in the car... set them up on the back yard in the dark and opened their closed off entrances and now am pooped and ready to fall into bed. 

phew! and another 2 months of swarms ahead! 

Hopefully I can get some photos of the Warre Hive I have 80% built in the next week when its hopefully completed and then some more photos of the massive swarm 2 when it gets transferred into my second KTBH. 


Cheers, 
Brewer Pete


----------



## himzol

Hi Pete,

are you putting windows in your Warre? just curious as to how you will know when to add the next box? As an absolute novice I'm trying to work out a lot off things before I get bees. Don't want to be responsible for deaths if I can avoid it.

There doesn't seem to be too many of these in Oz, either that or not too many people putting info on the net.


BTW, nice jig, same principle as I was trying to explain. never built one as I tend not to work with sheet timber much, mainly work with hardwoods.. hence I have a lot of Oak which I am laminating and ripping down to size. I have one box cut (not assembled) and should have the quilt finished tonight. Need to wait for some glue to dry before I can finish the second box and then I can move onto the roof. 

H.


----------



## pdilley

Hey hizmo,


No windows on the Warre hive, they don't need any. For the most part its by observation you will know you need to add more boxes. The bees will be bearding out the front as with heat, and will also be a different temperament as they are getting niggly for not having any room left to keep building out. Once you add boxes they go back into normal mode and build out like crazy.


The main information site in English is:
http://warre.biobees.com/

There you can get an English translation of Warre's book describing the bee hive (and others for comparison) and he style of beekeeping.

I'd make a change to the jig in hindsight. I would glue the strip further in on the board giving lots of wood behind for multiple clamping points. Helps the motor housing clear the end points of the jig easier.

Lots and lots of photos on building the Warre hive, just waiting until I am completely done to do a post so they are all stuck on my computer drive for now. Have switched hours at work and get home later so bad week for energy to work into the night on the table saw. Need some good hearing protection as well as only run the saw a few times and its a definite impact on hearing.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


P.S. On that web site fixed frames means Top Bars. He nailed his in. To make it legal and fully inspectable you get around that by cutting the nail heads off and then the top bars can slide up and off the guide nail shafts that keep them spaced properly when inserted into the box.


----------



## himzol

Thanks Pete,

I've been visiting that site and have printed the book off. I find reading a book on the screen a pain. Also downloaded the plans and as you are aware have started building. I haven't assembled anything as I wasn't sure if I needed to put windows in, what you describe seems reasonable so I may just have the thing finished this weekend, well with two boxes at least. 

If I get it finished would it be too late to get bees?

BTW, thanks for the insperation, my woodworking toys have been sitting idle for far too long..

Himzo.


----------



## pdilley

Hey hiz,

Not late yet Mate! get crackin!

Its at least 2 months of bee swarm season yet with the healthy swarming happening just around now and at least here in Canberra its hot and heavy swarm action. 14 hives filled in a day.

Cheers,
BP


----------



## himzol

Cheers Pete,

I have a fence to rebuild at my parents place this weekend, but should be close to finishing at least one hive with two boxes. I'll drop around to the central market and get some lemon grass ooil and some wax for the top bars. Fortunately I already have plenty of linseed oil.

I'll see if I can get some photos tonight, before I start assembling. I'm going to make the roof out of cedar as it will keep the wieght down a bit.

Himzo.


----------



## altone

Hey BP, have you built that Warre hive yet? and if so, did you go with the traditional materials or more plywood?

If you went the plywood route - please post some info on how you built them - sizes,finish etc.

If you went oldschool. I'll keep looking for some thick pine boards..... 25mm plus thick seems hard to get hold of though.

I now aim to get 3 hives running before the end of this season - split between Kenyan TBH and Warre.


----------



## pdilley

Hey Gerry,

Yes and No! -- I ended up shifted work hours so lost all my work time in the shed after day job in the regular week. Last Sunday was rain so only had last Saturday to work. And I spent it all with the table saw cutting up top bars for Warre Hives.

I figured if I'm going to do it I might as well make enough bars for 4 Warre Hives 

So I started and just finished today at 5PM.

I am guessing I have made about 192 Warra Top Bars, with all the intricate cuts compared to the Kenyan Top Bar Hives.

I have a Warre hive almost built. It just needs the mouse board cut out for going on top of the quilt and add the top bars I cut out and it is ready to go! (if it does not rain tomorrow I will finish it by tomorrow).

I looks really bitchin!


I am using standard 21mm C/D Plywood Sheet from Bunnings. You get 1 Warre hive from that. I also use the thin 9mm C/D ply I got before to make the covers to the Kenyan Top Bar Hives to use for the mouse board since its a thin bit of wood called for.

You get 2 KTBHs out of a 21mm C/D Ply Sheet.
You get only 1 Warre out of a 21mm C/D Ply Sheet... but your getting 6 Warre boxes to stack, one Quilt box, one roof, one floor, one landing board, etc.


I have all the cut out diagrams courtesy of another Warre builder in Canberra on the biobees forum. We've been swapping lots of building ideas as we both built out. He already has his Warre done and first swarm of bees in there for two weeks. They are doing fantastic!


Warre takes just a bit more time to build than Kenyan Top Bar Hive but its very close. You save money in hardware as no legs, bolts, hinges, etc. So the Warre is cheaper to build in materials but more expensive in labour time, but I say it all evens out.


I aim to get 4 (or 3 if I get rained out) Warre Top Bar Hives and 2 Kenyan Top Bar Hives running this season. I think I can do it since both KTBHs are now full of bees, and the first Warre is 95% built.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Warre Teaser Photo
Mouse board not attached to roof so it slides over the quilt box instead of resting on top. That will be fixed once the mouse board is attached to the roof.





Cutting Diagram for a 21mm C/D Ply Sheet from Bunnings (Cutting Guide is optional if you wish to follow along with building your own guide, need the 9mm C/D Ply sheet to make it, well you need the 9mm sheet anyway to do the Quilt Mouse Cover [I didn't cut it out of 21mm ply])



Assembly Diagram



The Free Book Behind It All
Warre Book (PDF) Download Here


More

Bottom Board Glue Up with Landing Board
I used scrap wood to cut into square for each edge to give lots of wood to screw leg posts into if thats my plan. Or make a nice stable rest on top of some "hollow" bricks.. solid bricks just weep up water and damp which is not good.



Looking down the tower of boxes with notches cut in their sides for bars to sit in.



1mm gap between top of bars and top of Warre Box



Bars from Below



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

One quick note, missing from the cutting diagram is the roof cap strip.

If you see that big grey empty space at the top in the middle and look at the skinny grey empty space to its left, thats where I'd cut out the roof cap.


With the 50mm cutting guide, if you built one or you don't want one, use it to rip into strips to make lifting handles to glue to the front and back of each Warre Box as shown in the Assembly Guide diagram.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## himzol

Hi Pete,

What are the regulations in Canberra regarding the Warre Hive, I soke to the local PIRSA guy here in Adelaide regarding permits etc.. first worry was when he had never heard of them. The biggest worry is that the regs here state that hives must have removable frames, apparently this is for inspection perposes.

Just wondering if it's the same in Canberra and how you get around it?

BTW your build looks good, a bit better than mine at the moment... I'm using recycled Oak and have to laminate things before cutting to size... I've got two boxes, floor, and quilt ready for assembly and am currently working on the roof...I think for the next hive I may go down the plywood path...

Himzo


----------



## pdilley

Hey Hizmo,


If you take a nail and bang it half way into a block of wood with a hammer and then cut the nail head off what you end up with is a shaft of nail metal sticking up out of the wood like a pin.

If you take your top bars and drill a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the nail shaft you have top bars that will slide up and down over the shaft of nail metal like a guide.

If you do this to all the boxes in your Warre hive then all the bars will slide up and off the nail shafts and just as easily slide back down them again.

Congratulations, you are completely legal and capable of removable combs for inspection if the need so arises.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

P.S. You could save some cutting effort if you just use finishing nails 

P.P.S. Always pre-drill your nail holes to prevent wood splitting.


----------



## altone

Brewer Pete said:


> Hey Hizmo,
> 
> 
> If you take a nail and bang it half way into a block of wood with a hammer and then cut the nail head off what you end up with is a shaft of nail metal sticking up out of the wood like a pin.
> 
> If you take your top bars and drill a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the nail shaft you have top bars that will slide up and down over the shaft of nail metal like a guide.
> 
> If you do this to all the boxes in your Warre hive then all the bars will slide up and off the nail shafts and just as easily slide back down them again.
> 
> Congratulations, you are completely legal and capable of removable combs for inspection if the need so arises.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete
> 
> P.S. You could save some cutting effort if you just use finishing nails
> 
> P.P.S. Always pre-drill your nail holes to prevent wood splitting.



Ooops oh yes, gotta check the local rules for hives - will ask the local beekeepers group before I go crazy and build the Warre - just in case.

I know the Kenyans are ok down in VIC.

<edit> Sure, I kmow they might be "inspectable" with the pin setup, but will the inspector be happy most likely having to cut the comb out to inspect the hive? - better ask first...

Great job BP.


----------



## fergi

howdy guys, i am currently thinking about starting a beehive collection.i live out in the farming country north of adelaide, i have a mate who has about a thousand acres that he farms so i can set up a hive or two on his property, i have only just started reading about keeping bees and currently i am reading about the methods on the net, surprised to find AHB guys doing the same. bee stings are not what i would like to get so one question is if you buy a really good bee suit can you make it inpenetrable to bees getting in to sting you or is it impossible to get a fullproof bee suit. 
cheers
fergi


----------



## himzol

Brewer Pete said:


> Hey Hizmo,
> 
> 
> If you take a nail and bang it half way into a block of wood with a hammer and then cut the nail head off what you end up with is a shaft of nail metal sticking up out of the wood like a pin.
> 
> If you take your top bars and drill a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the nail shaft you have top bars that will slide up and down over the shaft of nail metal like a guide.
> 
> If you do this to all the boxes in your Warre hive then all the bars will slide up and off the nail shafts and just as easily slide back down them again.
> 
> Congratulations, you are completely legal and capable of removable combs for inspection if the need so arises.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete
> 
> P.S. You could save some cutting effort if you just use finishing nails
> 
> P.P.S. Always pre-drill your nail holes to prevent wood splitting.



Thanks Pete,

I was planning on doing this as well. I'm hopeing it will be enough. 

I started assembly this afternoon, I started with the quilt. I'm trying to avoid using any metal in the construction, but may wind up having to use some screws as I feel I'm losing time just trying to glue everything.. If I do I will be using stainless screws..read somewhere they have less effect on the bees as they aren't magnetic. I'm not sure whether it's true or not, but the fact that they will be out in the weather makes sense to use them.

Just out of curiosity, how many boxes per hive should I plan for? I noticed you had six, won't this get a bit heavy trying to lift the five boxes plus quilt and roof? Are you planning on making one of those hoists I saw on the other web site?

Himzo


----------



## Dasar

There is no such thing as a fullproof bee suit;

They will either wait till your geting out of it and then get even with you, (when you think you have walked far enough away to take a leak, keep walking for another 2mintues atleast)

or they will just get that mad they will drive a sting threw the suit, ask any beekeeper thats worked something like bloodwood that turns bees psychotic they will keep trying to get you and wont stop till they do.

The best thing to do is not to worry about getting stung, trust they smell fear and if they know your worrying about getting stung they will sting you just for the fun of it, the good thing is you do get used to it cop enough of them and you just start treating them like mossie bites you just give the sting a scratch to get it out and just keep on working.


----------



## pdilley

Hey guys, I can not speak for your local inspectors attitude but the law does not mandate langstroths, just hives that can be inspected, the only thing inspectors are out to do is monitor and record distribution patterns of any diseases outbreaks. Most registration of hives are for mailing out notices of disease or pest outbreaks to hopefully get word out there in time for beekeepers to prepare or react appropriately.

The Warre hive design makes little "toaster waffle" sized combs and each one can be removed and inspected and returned. There should not be a lot of bridge combing to the sides of the box, in some cases none, but bees don't follow rule books so you can end up with some. Its a simple and straightforward procedure to run a bread knife from the two-dollar shop or any bit of metal down the sides to break any bridge comb if it is there.

As far as number of boxes, 6 boxes is a good growth number but depends again on the profundity of your queen/colony and you may end up with 3 boxes, or 6 or so. Each hive will not be the same as colonies differ so you may get by making a few roof and quilt boxes with the spare bits of wood and make a few less Warre boxes for the hive. You may even want to redraw the design to get you making 4 quilts, floors, and roof bits out of a single sheet of Ply. Then any left overs for boxes. That way you could start with the bare minimum (2 boxes, 1 quilt, 1 bottom, 1 roof) and then as time permits go back and get another sheet of ply and dedicate it to making nothing but boxes from.

If thats a plan for you then I would say do what I did and make a whole mess load of Warre top bars as they are the fiddly bit and have them all ready to go. Making boxes from butt joints with a nail or two is easy and quick in comparison to making the bars. I lost count but guess I made close to 190 bars, about 3 ended up being rejects as in my mass production dazed zone my mind measured a few shorter than they should have been.

My full suit with complete veil does me well. The gloves and suit have had maybe 3 stingers in them from working two colonies over a month in completely less than desirable conditions and I have yet to get one myself. Its a good suit to start with until you are used to the occasional sting and don't bother with them, as said before at that time it will be like mossie bites, annoying but part of the territory.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## altone

Dasar said:


> There is no such thing as a fullproof bee suit;
> 
> They will either wait till your geting out of it and then get even with you, (when you think you have walked far enough away to take a leak, keep walking for another 2mintues atleast)
> 
> or they will just get that mad they will drive a sting threw the suit, ask any beekeeper thats worked something like bloodwood that turns bees psychotic they will keep trying to get you and wont stop till they do.
> 
> The best thing to do is not to worry about getting stung, trust they smell fear and if they know your worrying about getting stung they will sting you just for the fun of it, the good thing is you do get used to it cop enough of them and you just start treating them like mossie bites you just give the sting a scratch to get it out and just keep on working.



Firstly , let me say I currently only have 1 active hive - so experience is minimal. 

I moved a swarm from my compost bin to the tbh and have opened and inspected the hive twice.
My only bit of realbeekeepers gear is a veil - I use gardening gloves and white clothing plus the veil - so far no bee stings.
*BUT* a lot of bloody mossie bites - I think there are more around now because everyones saving water in drums due to the water restrictions.
I cover my drums with mossie mesh to stop them breeding but I guess the neighbors don't.

So long as you're not allergic, the bee stings aren't that bad, and as others say - you'll get used to it.
A bee can only sting you once anyway (unless you decide to play with the queen of course)

I don't even bother with the veil etc. when I'm having a quick look at the hive now. I just open up have a look, add a bar if needed and close her up again before the bees get too aggro - no smoker, just a sugar spray to stop them buzzing round quite so much.
(Yes I know I'm probably checking too often but it's my first year - gotta learn somehow)

Perhaps I've got particularly placid bees - although they didn't seem that way whe I tried to move a collapsed brood comb.

I was sh*t scared when first handling them, but the calmer you are, the better they'll be - don't stress about the ultimate beeproof suit - just take reasonable precautions and you'll probably reduce them once you feel more comfortable with the bees.

My 2c for what it's worth


----------



## altone

My Warre plans have been put on hold.

Found out I can only have 2 hives on my current block and have already built 2 Kenyan TBH's.
I'll make the Warre during the Xmas break and either swap out one of the existing hives next year or talk a 
neighbor into hosting it for me.
They're still getting used to hives in close proximity, so I'll need to give them time and bribe them with a little 
fresh comb honey before I ask about putting a hive in an unused area of their gardens.

Also, once I finally get my Rego info from the DPI I might ask the local golf club if I could place a hive or 2 
in their grounds, if nobody is already doing it.


----------



## pdilley

Good to know your local regulations. Now, as you say, time to start finding eager recipients of hives of yours. Should be easy if you have gardeners who want healthy gardens and/or very productive fruit trees. You can organise it so they get freebees  and then at harvest you give them a few jars or natural combs of honey.

My Warre is done. Well I got two boxes. The drill holes in the bars just oversized to finishing nails was a perfect idea. However with thin shelf to work with it is best to take your drill and drill at an angle into the centre of the plywood sheet and not perfectly straight up and down. If you go up and down you will be so close to the inside edge of the ply you will almost always split the inner ply of wood off. Go to the centre and all will work out perfectly.

I just completed the two Warre boxes worth of bars (16 in all) and will take those two boxes, the quilt, the roof and the landing board into the Beekeepers Association meeting tomorrow night for another top bar presentation. Would have done them all but have been putting in the yards at work and just lacking energy to work in the shed at nigh.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## anegula09

I know, I know.  And while Im in acomplaining mood, how are you meant to know how big your avatnar is? mine wont work


----------



## pdilley

Get properties on the file after shrinking it in a graphics program and resaving it.

I'm out buying land, solicitors, dealing with architects so my hive building is over for this season. I got two Kenyan Top Bar Hives and one Warre hive built and populated with bees. Plenty of kit left to make three more Warres next season.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Post-Build it report:

The African KTBHs are going like gang busters!
Friends Langstroth is going but slower than the KTBHs so you can see how much bees like them African hives!
The Warre Hive started late and is not really building out fast so slowest of the lot but that might be an unfair comment as it started the latest of the hives.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

And now for something different...

For those who want to see a top-bar style basket skep like hive, seeing is believing:

VIDEO:


Image of basket/mud hive with a Super:




BASKET HIVE HOME ON THE WEB:
http://www.gaiabees.com/

MORE VIDS (EDIT):
Found some more here
http://www.themelissagarden.com/videos.html

REMINDER:
Winter's coming, plenty of time to plan out some building of top bar hives to be ready for spring swarms for those who missed out this season and want to get started with the next season with bees.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## praxis178

Brewer Pete said:


> REMINDER:
> Winter's coming, plenty of time to plan out some building of top bar hives to be ready for spring swarms for those who missed out this season and want to get started with the next season with bees.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Yep, I'm laying in materials to build two or three (have 3000m^2, so could do, if I'm reading the regs right, 10 here in QLD) KTBH long boxes and two or so swarmers. 

Been itching to try this for years, granddad kept bees back in the old country which as a 7 year old I helped raid/look after, so I know I'm right with bees, not that my old man is; he's fiercely allergic, even a bee landing on his bear skin gets a reaction, a sting is a mandatory trip th the ER epipen or not! :excl:


----------



## pdilley

Yeah, you are looking at about 320mm width on the wood after cutting out the sides so not exactly 10 cuts into a 3000mm piece of wood but a lot of people built them from pallet strips of wood, old fencing, etc. when recycling wood so it won't hurt if a hive or two have multiple pieces of wood making up the sides. With my CD Ply hives, I didn't get the bees fully filling up an entire hive on the first year, but very close to it! So you can experiment it a bit of a longer hive if you want. Some are trying very long hives. Using the Ply you get somewhere near half way between the small hive and the long hive in the free PDF plans download which is good enough for me.

Depending on the UV in the sun in your area you could go to an exterior UV protecting paint if worried about the wood or having to refresh the finish annually with wax and oil.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## praxis178

Brewer Pete said:


> Yeah, you are looking at about 320mm width on the wood after cutting out the sides so not exactly 10 cuts into a 3000mm piece of wood but a lot of people built them from pallet strips of wood, old fencing, etc. when recycling wood so it won't hurt if a hive or two have multiple pieces of wood making up the sides. With my CD Ply hives, I didn't get the bees fully filling up an entire hive on the first year, but very close to it! So you can experiment it a bit of a longer hive if you want. Some are trying very long hives. Using the Ply you get somewhere near half way between the small hive and the long hive in the free PDF plans download which is good enough for me.
> 
> Depending on the UV in the sun in your area you could go to an exterior UV protecting paint if worried about the wood or having to refresh the finish annually with wax and oil.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Had a bit of spare time this weekend so I started to knock out a swarmer sized TBH, all recycled timber. As I didn't really want to waste any I ended up making it a bit longer than I had originally planned (was aiming for a almost square configuration) at 14.5 bars/600mm long (yep that half bar is a load of fun!). Lesson learnt, the next swarmer will be sized to better suit the bars.

Anyway over the next couple of months I'll be building some more boxes probably go with two hives at ~1.15m long and another 600mm long swarmer.




This is the box as it stands right now, still have to finish the roof/lid, figured I'd make it water shedding as it might end up having to earn it's keep out in the weather at some point. Still trying to decide if I'll make some legs for it or just a multipurpose stand thing that can be used when inspecting the hives to hold my gear or as a stand for the swarmer etc....

BTW That wax/oil stuff is a bit of a pain, but if you take a heat gun to it on a low heat setting you can get it to melt/wick into the timber and dry all in a few mins, don't know if that's a good thing, but I was sick of the goo getting on all my tools and then onto my clothes! :unsure:

Edit: smelling.


----------



## ratchie

Thomas J what sort of timber are you using would any type be ok ?


----------



## praxis178

ratchie said:


> Thomas J what sort of timber are you using would any type be ok ?



Ok quoting from one of my books "red cedar is best, but really any clean untreated timber will do, the bees won't know the difference", the stuff I'm using is from house demolitions just picked through the demo-yard's "broken and shattered" pile, so in my case lengths are all kinda random as is the material, some is pine, some is oregon, but it works out ok, sorta. <grin> 

I'd love to put cedar shingle roofs on the full length hives, that would just look SO COOL! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## ratchie

Ok thanks ,I have a heap of cyprus 70x19 I know termites dont like it but unsure about bees.


----------



## praxis178

ratchie said:


> Ok thanks ,I have a heap of cyprus 70x19 I know termites dont like it but unsure about bees.



Wish I had some of that! Out of curiosity just where in Nambour are you? I'm just up the road in Yandina....


----------



## pdilley

Shedding roof cover is good. I've always meant to build mine but never got around to it so if building new hives I will Be building shedding from the get go. The Warre is shedding from the get go so I'm happy with that one.

Boiled linseed oil is well linseed oil smelling. For purposes of doing annual refrshes I did a bit of searching for old electric fry pans to keep on low and keep the oil and wax liquid and emulsified until applied. I've since gone to natural finish on sides and uv exterior paint on roof surfaces facing direct sunlight constantly. I've got a hive that I'm converting to all uv paint on exterior surfaces and of course unfinished natural wood on interior surfaces facing the bees. I'll get to run all combinations finish and see how it goes and what suits but I think at a minimum the roof and legs should be painted in uv blocking paint as they are the two areas showing the wear first on the all wax and oil hives.

Bees are so low maintenance with these hives you can make as much or little work for yourself as suits your style.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## ratchie

Nambour Heights near the bowls club


----------



## praxis178

Brewer Pete said:


> Shedding roof cover is good. I've always meant to build mine but never got around to it so if building new hives I will Be building shedding from the get go. The Warre is shedding from the get go so I'm happy with that one.
> 
> Boiled linseed oil is well linseed oil smelling. For purposes of doing annual refrshes I did a bit of searching for old electric fry pans to keep on low and keep the oil and wax liquid and emulsified until applied. I've since gone to natural finish on sides and uv exterior paint on roof surfaces facing direct sunlight constantly. I've got a hive that I'm converting to all uv paint on exterior surfaces and of course unfinished natural wood on interior surfaces facing the bees. I'll get to run all combinations finish and see how it goes and what suits but I think at a minimum the roof and legs should be painted in uv blocking paint as they are the two areas showing the wear first on the all wax and oil hives.
> 
> Bees are so low maintenance with these hives you can make as much or little work for yourself as suits your style.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



I'm beginning to wonder if using a natural decking oil might not be the way to go, if you don't want to "paint" the hives....


----------



## praxis178

ratchie said:


> Nambour Heights near the bowls club



Might have to see about getting together for a cold one then! :icon_drunk: if nothing else....


----------



## pdilley

Thomas J. said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if using a natural decking oil might not be the way to go, if you don't want to "paint" the hives....



You have to be careful when trying out new finishes, especially the furniture ones and study up on all the chemicals inside. Even boiled linseed usually has chemical drying additives etc and natural on a label is not a gauruntee it's not got any chemicals in so read the contents. I had a furniture/woodworking mate want to put orange oil finish on because it was natura including te bottom surface of the lid. When he transported a swarm 20 minutes in the car they all died inside the hive. My small swarm collecting hive had housed swarms for a day or two on location plus drives in car and then two weeks in the back yard before transfers to a proper KTBHive and they have all survived.

Don't gas the poor little buyers with fumes of who knows what's in it  

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## praxis178

Brewer Pete said:


> You have to be careful when trying out new finishes, especially the furniture ones and study up on all the chemicals inside. Even boiled linseed usually has chemical drying additives etc and natural on a label is not a gauruntee it's not got any chemicals in so read the contents. I had a furniture/woodworking mate want to put orange oil finish on because it was natura including te bottom surface of the lid. When he transported a swarm 20 minutes in the car they all died inside the hive. My small swarm collecting hive had housed swarms for a day or two on location plus drives in car and then two weeks in the back yard before transfers to a proper KTBHive and they have all survived.
> 
> Don't gas the poor little buyers with fumes of who knows what's in it
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Yep, too true, I have some that is IIRC 80% tung oil and the balance is linseed oil and pine turpentine..... But for now I'll stick with the wax/oil mix, will have to find one of those old electric fry-pans though, will make things so much easier!


----------



## ratchie

Thomas J. said:


> Might have to see about getting together for a cold one then! :icon_drunk: if nothing else....


yes I am in Yandina a couple of times every week.


----------



## praxis178

ratchie said:


> yes I am in Yandina a couple of times every week.



Cool we'll have to tee up a day next week sometime so I can christen the kegging setup I'm picking up Saturday properly, seeing as I have a brew just about ready to keg and all..... :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## ratchie

sounds good ,I was at the SCB last saturday were you the guy with the hat ,after about 10 rye esbs its a bit hard to remember,


----------



## praxis178

ratchie said:


> sounds good ,I was at the SCB last saturday were you the guy with the hat ,after about 10 rye esbs its a bit hard to remember,



Nope hatless was I, I had my baby sister along, she was sucking down the Rauchies like there was no tomorrow (which by all accounts she wished there hadn't have been!). The Rye was divine!!!


----------



## praxis178

Picture of my first swarmer completed (and rain tested last night).




All seemed to go well, but it was rather light rain so probably shouldn't count as a test. :lol: 

Don't know how I ended up with the roof out of square either, oh well I just hope the bees won't notice! 

Now that I have a bit of a jig made up doing the long boxes should be a cake walk, just so I don't mung up the roofing,... again. :angry:


----------



## pdilley

Looks good for a first hive and surprising even the roof colour is the same as mine 

I had one out of square so no worries. Need one of those corner clamping setups to get perfect joins.

Now to sort out some more 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## praxis178

Brewer Pete said:


> Looks good for a first hive and surprising even the roof colour is the same as mine
> 
> I had one out of square so no worries. Need one of those corner clamping setups to get perfect joins.
> 
> Now to sort out some more
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Dang and here I was thinking I'd found a colour all my own! :lol: 

I have one, I just mistakenly though I was "above" using such aids.....

Yeah, but that will have to wait till I recover from my little road trip to pick up my kegging setup from Crusty, long drive, and some exciting diversion along the way which I'll detail in a thread all their own tomorrow, right now I'm off to bed.


----------



## pdilley

From back on page 4, an update on the Chooks. I have built a feeder for water and layer feed from the old reliable Bunnings $15 25litre water barrel.

We use them for fermenters for beer so this may be hard to look at for some people.


Chickens scratch and shovel food around with their beaks. This can waste food if it gets on the ground and they don't peck it up. They also like to poop everywhere including their food. It is getting cold and wet and foggy during winter so I don't want to go out every day before 6am to feed them. They also have learned if they raise a racket I'll come out and feed them so I need to help them unlearn that behaviour.

Enter the ultimate easy to make chicken feeder.

It does not matter for water, but with chicken feed you make sure you fill it 50mm or more below the bottom of the chicken holes so when they splash feed everywhere very little, if any feed falls out. This keeps feed in your feeder and saves you money in the long run!

In the old days farmers had lots of tin laying around and made a simple feeder for less than a dollar in scrap material. The tin was rolled into a cylinder and places above a plate with a gap at the bottom. The feed went in the cylinder and gravity would empty it onto the plate as chickens ate food from the plate. This could be hung on a wire in the coop to prevent mice getting at it.

Today I called the Feed Store and they wanted $70 for one of these of any decent capacity so I only filled up feed once a week or more instead of every day. I was so angry!

Enter the $15 barrels from Bunnings!

Being Food Grade is a plus because any chemicals the chickens consume end up in your eggs and you consume. So keeping your chickens healthy and happy means keeping you healthy and happy...


Bits from Bunnings:




Cutting Four Opposing Holes:



Water:



Feed:





Four Opposing Holes means chickens are forced not to crowd each other and get upset and then peck each other fighting for a spot at the food.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Yeastie Beastie

We have 60,000 of the little suckers, it may be on a larger scale but just thought id share another idea.

Each one of our sheds has 10,000 chooks in it. Inside there is basically 2-3 rows of feeders that is head height (chook head) which looks basically like a piece of guttering/spouting with a wooden board 2 inches above it. The chooks lay their head on the side, stick their heads in and have a feed. There is a series of these that run around the outside.

Put this on a smaller scale.
Run a peice of house guttering along the fence, put some 2" wooden chocks on top of that, run a length of timber along the top of these. Result is a nice tidy feeder that wont attract the local bird community.

Knocked up a pic of what I mean. 

View attachment Chook_Feeder_PDF.pdf


----------



## pdilley

Sounds good. 

I was originally going to build an L shaped feeder from 100mm plumbing pipe.

Pipe vertical with a cap on top stores feed and then at the bottom a 90 degree elbow join to another 100mm plumping pipe running horizontal at chook height with a cap on the end of that. The vertical pipe is longer than the horizontal pipe in the shape of the letter L.

Then near the end cap on the bottom horizontal pipe you cut out the top section of the plastic piping making a feed trough entrance.

It works great,

I just like the barrel as I get a solid lid so water does not enter easy and I can lift and carry it around. In the garden to free range during the day and then leave it inside the chook hutch at night so they don't make noise at 5:30am asking for food.

I may give yours a go in model form to knock it up. But the maximum chickens I have will be 6 or so. A bit overkills 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Yeastie Beastie

Brewer Pete said:


> I may give yours a go in model form to knock it up. But the maximum chickens I have will be 6 or so. A bit overkills
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete




Yeah true. 

Probably something to make if you already have the materials spare laying (no pun intended) around.


----------



## pdilley

Just a cap to the building story. An article on building these bee hives got published on the Permaculture Research Institute of Australia's web site:

http://permaculture.org.au/2010/06/21/home-made-bee-hives/

Hopefully inspiring a whole new group of enthusiastic beginning bee keepers 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## wakkatoo

Recently did a 'intro to beekeeping' course at the local community college. Was run by a local beekeeper and I dragged my father in law along as I was eyeing off a bit of his bush block to put a couple of hives. After this course I am well and truly hooked and so is the FIL. If you asked him he'd say it was his idea all along. 
Just in the process of getting the gear together now. Will stick to the 'standard' design for my first two hives but might get a bit more adventurous on the ones that will undoubtedly follow!

edit - he he, I just read the article above and if there is one comparision I can draw between brewers and beekeepers is that 1 question asked to 5 of either will result in 6 answers! The effect of smoke made me think about that. Some literature will say it causes them to gorge, other literature says it masks the pheremones. I'm no expert (bees or beer) but I like to tinker with things and do it the way I feel most comfortable. If I get the desired result (or a better one) then I'm happy...


----------



## Brewing_Brad

Brewing, beekeeping and chooks! This thread encapsulates the reason why I love this site!

Thanks for sharing everything Pete. I'll be building one of these hives when I get back to Australia in August - just in time for swarming season by the sound of it.

Cheers
Brad


----------



## ~MikE

Brewer Pete said:


> Hopefully inspiring a whole new group of enthusiastic beginning bee keepers



definitely inspired, am also currently allergic to the little buggers and living in a unit


----------



## Wolfy

Brewer Pete said:


> Hopefully inspiring a whole new group of enthusiastic beginning bee keepers


Yep you did!
But my dad bitched when I told him he has to make me a couple of Warr Hives for me - he didn't seem to subscribe to my theory that they are just a few plain boxes stacked ontop of each other with a roof ontop. :unsure:


----------



## pdilley

Mike, shame, not a large unit complex with a flat roof on top with access?? 


Wolfy, perhaps giving him a copy of the free pdf version of Warre's book? Or the 3D piece assembly drawings. Kenyan Top Bar Hives would be dead easy to make in comparison. You may be able to do that on your own. A sheet of ply and six straight cuts gets you sides and floors, then 3 more straight cuts on the left overs and you have both end squares. Then just four uncut as-is pieces of pine wood from Bunnings and you screw/bolt/glue them together into a hive. Drill out some holes for entrances and you are off (without follower boards; they would be a bit more work but its mostly straight cuts and glue and you are done). Roof can be a bit of scrap tin, board, corrugated plastic, etc. Then just get cut your bars to length and place on top under whatever roof you use.

Bee Hive Done :icon_chickcheers: 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Wolfy

Brewer Pete said:


> Wolfy, perhaps giving him a copy of the free pdf version of Warre's book? Or the 3D piece assembly drawings. Kenyan Top Bar Hives would be dead easy to make in comparison. You may be able to do that on your own.


Yes I did have him download the .pdf's and that's when he decided it was so hard!
My skills (and setup here) with power tools are such that it's best to ask him to do it, he's just built most of my sister's house so has all the fancy stuff that makes life so easy.
But he's off doing the grey-nomad-thing in warmer climates until August so will see what happens before then, I need to contact bee keepers and get a license too.


----------



## pdilley

Building Warres is easy when you have a table saw.

Building Kenyan Top Bar hives is easy with just a circular saw, or even a good old fashioned hand saw and hand tools.

Thats why I say building KTBHs is perfect for beginners. I might say Warres have a "neat" look to them but the performance of my Warre is less than the performance of my KTBH in both bee and honey production. Disclaimer: 1st season results, more years needed to make a proper judgement.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Spoonta

have you still got the plans for the bare foot bee hive the link does not work any more


----------



## Wolfy

Spoonta said:


> have you still got the plans for the bare foot bee hive the link does not work any more


This link seems to work fine: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/how-to-b...ar-hive/6288193
(Let me know if you can't download the .pdf, seems to work fine for me however.)


----------



## Wolfy

Two questions to those who built top bar hives last year or earlier:

1) What bar width works best for local Australian conditions/bees? Are two widths needed (one for brood one for comb) or is one adequate?

2) Does the bottom-mesh (and flap-door) provide any noticeable advantages or disadvantages? Is a wooden bottom just as good as mesh, or door setup?


----------



## praxis178

Wolfy said:


> Two questions to those who built top bar hives last year or earlier:
> 
> 1) What bar width works best for local Australian conditions/bees? Are two widths needed (one for brood one for comb) or is one adequate?
> 
> 2) Does the bottom-mesh (and flap-door) provide any noticeable advantages or disadvantages? Is a wooden bottom just as good as mesh, or door setup?



I averaged the two widths and so far it seems to be working fine, being in the semi tropics I went with just the mesh floor and no bottom door (never really gets cold enough for the bee to go totally dormant).... Mind you this is my first season so things may well change a lot before long!


----------



## Wolfy

Leigh said:


> For those in Victoria, this is from the Vic DPI's website:
> 
> *Registration as a beekeeper*
> The Livestock Disease Control Act 1994 requires anyone who owns one or more hives of bees to register as a beekeeper with the Department of Primary Industries. The current annual fee when 1-60 hives are kept is $11.50. When 61 or more hives are kept the fee is calculated at 19 cents per hive. DPI will routinely forward application forms for renewal of registration to all registered beekeepers.
> 
> A registration number is allotted to a beekeeper when registering for the first time. It is compulsory to brand (by painting or firebrand) this number on each of your hives.


FYI for Victorian's:
I spoke to the DPI Bee-keeping-lady on the phone today, the fee is now $15/year.
Application form, and DPI Bee Keeping website.
There is also a 'voluntary' honey-testing-service-thing, you can choose if you your honey tested or not, however if you don't get it tested, the annual fee is $30 not $15.


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## praxis178

Wolfy said:


> FYI for Victorian's:
> I spoke to the DPI Bee-keeping-lady on the phone today, the fee is now $15/year.
> Application form, and DPI Bee Keeping website.
> There is also a 'voluntary' honey-testing-service-thing, you can choose if you your honey tested or not, however if you don't get it tested, the annual fee is $30 not $15.



Hardly seems "voluntary" at a cost of $15 if you DON'T want to volunteer!


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## wakkatoo

Brewer Pete said:


> I am not sure about Victoria, I am sure its similar to NSW.


This may have already been answered, but I couldn't find it when scanning the thread.
Have to have a permit in Vic. Got mine last month ($15) and expecting my hives to arrive next week - I'm going the more traditional 'commercial style' that you see around the place. 
With my permit I can have up to 10 hives, but I'm just starting small with 2. Will hopefully pick up my 'girls' in late oct / early nov. In vic you must have a permit, big $$ in fines otherwise. Without a number you shouldn't be able to buy bees from breeders (might not stop the more dubious ones tho), and the DPI is able to keep you informed of outbreaks or in my case - upcoming locust spraying.


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## Macca81

from what i can gather for Tas, Dept primary industries etc does not require a licence?? at least, i could not find any info on any requirements for keeping bees in the state...

as for local council, mine requires that bees are kept no less than 4m from property boundry and 25m from neighbouring occupied premises. 2 hives per property and then a permit is required.

i just wish i could work out what the state laws require in terms of a licence... i dont wanna go charging ahead to find that i need to jump through hoops, id rather jump first


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## Batz

Bit stoked here, my first raid of _my_ honey ! The hive was near full when I got it so raided it then but that wasn't my honey was it!





Picture does not do justice here, those coffee jars are the big 180mm high ones, and I've given three jars away as well.

Batz


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## beerbrewer76543

That is flippin awesome! I lerv dem honeyzzz :icon_drool2:


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## white.grant

Batz said:


> Bit stoked here, my first raid of _my_ honey ! The hive was near full when I got it so raided it then but that wasn't my honey was it!
> 
> View attachment 41662
> 
> 
> Picture does not do justice here, those coffee jars are the big 180mm high ones, and I've given three jars away as well.
> 
> Batz




Wow, that honey looks awesome. What does it taste like?

cheers

grant


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## Batz

Grantw said:


> Wow, that honey looks awesome. What does it taste like?
> 
> cheers
> 
> grant




It's fantastic Grant, real bush honey the flavor is unbelievable.

Batz


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## white.grant

Batz said:


> It's fantastic Grant, real bush honey the flavor is unbelievable.
> 
> Batz




So dark :icon_drool2:


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## wakkatoo

Okay, digging this thread up cos today was the first day i harvested honey. Got my first swarm towards the end of '10 and another one last november, funnily enough from the same backyard I got the first. A good summer for bees down here, relative warmth and good growth in plants. In the end I harvested about 8kg of honey from 4 1/2 frames. Not a huge amount but it was a hell of a lot fun with the whole family involved. Honey is a pale yellow and taste bloody awesome. Will stick up a pic when it's bottled.

Definately a hobby worth getting into. So long you don't mind the odd sting or two!


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