# Russian Imperial Stout - Have you brewed one?



## Ciderman (16/11/14)

I'm super keen to put one of these down over the Christmas break with plans to drink over winter 2015.

I'm An AG brewer.

I've done a lot of reading and I'm getting a lot of different opinions. Love to hear about any recipes you have tried and have some below questions;

- Do you add sugar or just up the grain bill?
- Maris Otter seems to be the preferred option, what percentage should I have in the grain bill?
- Some people say not to use chocolate malt, why?
- Wyeast 1028 seems popular.
- What is the purpose of rice hulls?
- What hops should be used?
- Ideal ABV and IBU?


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## Bribie G (16/11/14)

As with most stouts, it's a mistake to use pale malts then rely on roast barley to "stoutify" the brew, it should have a lot of middle-malts as well (Amber, Crystals, flaked barley, choc yes choc, etc) to round out the flavour and body.

For base malt I'd certainly use a UK pale malt, MO or Golden Promise etc.

My RIS came in first in the strong stouts in the NSW comp this year but I've lost the recipe, made it in 2011 :unsure:

However I remember Base malt, Amber, some Victory, flaked barley, choc, roast barley of course..

What I would do if I was making a RIS again for personal consumption would be to formulate a decent Foreign Extra Stout of around 6.5% ABV using above ingredients to obtain a 20L batch then (flame suit on) add a can of Coopers Stout.

For hops, just a simple bittering hop such as Magnum to around 60 IBU then if you want a bit of aroma, something fragrant like Centennial as a dry hop for a few days in a bag.

My preferred yeast would be Wyeast Irish Ale and ferment it at around 22 degrees to get a bit of fruity overtones.


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## jeddog (16/11/14)

funny you ask. I've been sitting here at the goggle machine thinking about a oak aged imperial stout. 10 Sunday beers later you speak of Russian Imperial Stout..


(You dont spell funny with 2 u's)


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## Mardoo (16/11/14)

My next brew! Actually I will be fermenting a lighter stout with WY1469 as the starter for this one. I'm working from the 1909 Courage Imperial Stout from Shut Up about Barclay Perkins. There are two versions on their pages, one correct, one not. The link below is the correct one.

It's a two-hour boil and elsewhere in his blog he says to take 10% of the black malt and add it whole to the boil.

So as I say, I haven't done it yet, but if Ron Pattinson of SUABP says its the best IS he's ever had I'm going to brew it.

Here's the link for his correct recipe.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1914-courage.html?m=1

IGNORE THE IMAGES BELOW HERE. They were for a more highly hopped version I added accidentally and then couldn' delete. Follow his recipe in the link.


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## MartinOC (16/11/14)

Ciderman said:


> - Wyeast 1028 seems popular.
> - What is the purpose of rice hulls?


Most of your questions have already been covered above, but I'll add a few extras for fun....

1028 is indeed a popular choice & a very good one. As Bribie said, Irish Ale Yeast is excellent & a voracious fermenter (which you're going to need for this beer).

Make sure you use a LOT of fresh yeast. As Mardoo alluded-to, it's probably a good idea to brew & ferment a "standard" stout, then dump the IRS onto the yeast cake & aerate well. Also consider a second aeration about 18-24 hours after it starts-up. I know this sounds like counter-intuitive with introducing oxygen, but it's a recommended practice for big beers.

Depending on how well your initial fermentation goes, consider racking to a secondary under airlock with another addition of wine/champagne yeast (like EC1118) to get it good & dry, then leave it for several months to finish completely. This is a beer that requires a lot of patience.

Rice hulls are used to "bulk-out" the mash & help with lautering. Since this is such a big beer, you could get a stuck sparge. They don't add any fermentables or flavour, but do make life easier if making big beers or anything involving wheat/oats. A quick rinse to get rid of excess dirt & chuck them in your main mash.

Good luck with it. I'm definitely going to do one once I get my brewery back in commission.


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## Ciderman (16/11/14)

MartinOC said:


> Most of your questions have already been covered above, but I'll add a few extras for fun....
> 
> 1028 is indeed a popular choice & a very good one. As Bribie said, Irish Ale Yeast is excellent & a voracious fermenter (which you're going to need for this beer).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your Imput. When you mean good and dry, what FG should I be aiming for? I see many high gravity beers don't go all the way back to your typical 1.010-1.015 territory. Also leaving it for several months, you mean the fermenter?


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## Danwood (16/11/14)

Further to Bribie's suggestions, my current RIS is a double batch (two full cubes, ~45L) brewed to make use of 2 coopers stout tins which were given to me by someone on here.
Without looking at my notes, it also has ~8kg base and spec malts, plus toasted rolled oats.

For yeast, I went with a 4:1 blend of Wyeast 007 and 099. The high gravity yeast was an insurance plan of sorts, plus I should be able to bottle condition. 

And here's a kilo of cherries which are now swimming in the keg...lucky cherries. The liquid is vodka used to kill any nasties on the cherries. Plus, I now have a bit of cherry vodka !


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## metro embalming brewery (16/11/14)

I dont think anyone on here's brewed a RIS. I suppose you could have a search and see what infos available I guess.


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## MartinOC (16/11/14)

Yep, DRY!

At competitions, I've sampled a lot of IRS that are just too sweet & cloying because the brewer hasn't been able to achieve a decent attenuation, which is why I suggested the EC1118. It makes a HUGE difference if you're looking for something that's going to stand-out from the crowd.

Generally, EC1118 will strip the guts out of a normal beer, but with IRS, it's got plenty in reserve. If you can get to the 1010-1020 territory, you're doing well.

Yes, I mean several months, having been racked to a secondary. Ideally in glass (if you can do it) under airlock & keep monitoring the level of fluid in the airlock to make sure it doesn't evaporate. This is one to put away in a corner somewhere & GIVE IT TIME.

When you're ready, you can then rack it off & add fresh yeast & priming sugars. Then leave it in that same corner for 12-18 months. Like I said initially, this is a beer that requires patience.

Whatever you do, keep good notes so when you come to do it again, you can improve it.

As an aside, I used to make a high-gravity porter each year & then pull them out for a comparison of 4-yrs/3-yrs/2-yrs old. Interesting experiment. You're a brewer, right?? 

Edit: I found it took about 8 years in the bottle before they started to drop-off noticeably in quality.


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## manticle (17/11/14)

metro embalming brewery said:


> I dont think anyone on here's brewed a RIS. I suppose you could have a search and see what infos available I guess.


No-one on the forum has brewed an RIS?

Ever? What would be the point of the search then?


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## StalkingWilbur (17/11/14)

I didn't understand the post and I was too tired to query it. Sarcasm?


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## Bribie G (17/11/14)

Is that you Citymorgue?


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## manticle (17/11/14)

I get it now.


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## technobabble66 (17/11/14)

Yep. Sarcasm followed by a standard DASFFS. Too old skool. 
Not helpful, really.


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## Ciderman (20/11/14)

Thoughts on this?


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## Dave70 (20/11/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> I didn't understand the post and I was too tired to query it. Sarcasm?


I think the point may be it was actually English stout brewed for export to Russia. 

So by that logic, nobody here has ever actually brewed an India Pale Ale either.


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## Blind Dog (20/11/14)

Ciderman said:


> Thoughts on this? image.jpg


I suspect it'll be nowhere near as good as you want it to be. Remember when you were a kid merrily mixing colours and they all quickly ended up as poo brown after adding yet another colour? Same principle generally applies to malts in beer. It can work if you're looking to add a little more complexity to an existing, brewed, tasted and critiqued recipe. But un


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## Blind Dog (20/11/14)

Bloody phone

Anyway, I'd keep it reasonably simple at first then tweak if necessary


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## Ciderman (29/12/14)

Gave this a crack today. Bumped up my grain bill by a kilo to account for poor effeciency that is expected in big beers. Ended up with 1.097 which will put me in the 9.5% territory. Pitched onto yeast cake.


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## Moad (29/12/14)

I added some bourbon that was sitting on woodchips for a few months. This was to get the flavours of a barrel aged stout in there. Have to say I'm glad I did it and if I can't get an actual barrel I'll do it again next winter.


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## Ciderman (29/12/14)

I've got a 5L port barrel. Planning on putting in 20-25% in that. Fill right to the top and keep topping up to prevent oxidisation.


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## kz412 (9/1/15)

Thinking of putting on an RIS in the near future by brewing a standard foreign export stout to about 6.5% and adding a can of coopers stout, just wondering when the best time to chuck the can in would be? Thinking probably just add it at flameout...


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## Rod (9/1/15)

I have brewed a RIS , recipe from this site , K&K by Dan Raynor

dan rayners RIS

Dan's recipe is below (Best beer of Show 2007?). K+K & steeped grains:
500g cracked roast barley
500g cracked light crystal
1.7kg can Draught
1.7kg can Porter
1.7kg can Stout (no brand names are listed)
1kg brewing sugar
1kg dried brew booster

60g styrian goldings @ 60
40g EKG @ 15
20g saaz @ 0

He steeped the grains in 6L water, and boiled that for 60 mins, with the styrian added at start boil, the EKG added 15 mins from flameout, and the saaz at flamout.

Then he just added the 3 cans into his fermenter, put the boiling wort on top of that, stirred to dissolve, and added cold water up to 20L mark.
It says he aerated by pouring from one fermenter into another several times,
pitched 40g of yeast,
and it seems like he used 2 fermenters to ferment in, probably at 10L each, cause the krauesen that comes of a good RIS will creep out of the fermenter and strangle you in your sleep if you dont give it bollock loads of head space.

Also says to use champagne yeast to finish it off, expect a OG of 1115, and an FG of 1028.


i did this recipe ages ago and used windsor yeast. worked a treat

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=44166&st=0&#entry626383 

this no longer works

I still have some bottles from the batch I made in 2010

tastes like liqueur muscat


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## TheWiggman (13/7/15)

Venturing into my first RIS. I feel like all my brewing misadventures have led up to this point.

Recipe: Russian Imperial Stout
Brewer: TheWiggman
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 16.88 l
Post Boil Volume: 14.04 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 11.25 l
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 81.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 66.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
4.220 kg Pale (Traditional Ale) Malt - JW (6.9 EB Grain 3 87.5 % 
0.090 kg Carafa III (1034.3 EBC) Grain 6 1.9 % 
0.300 kg Crystal, Medium - Simpsons (157.6 EBC) Grain 4 6.2 % 
0.120 kg Roasted Barley - JW (1150.0 EBC) Grain 5 2.5 % 
0.090 kg Chocolate Malt (1100.0 EBC) Grain 7 1.9 % 
30.73 g Challenger [7.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 38.6 IBUs 
30.73 g Goldings, East Kent [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 9 27.9 IBUs 
1.0 pkg London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028) [12 Yeast 11 - 
1.50 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
1.50 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 - 
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 10 - 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.821 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Saccharification Add 15.53 l of water at 71.2 C 66.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Heat to 76.0 C over 10 min 76.0 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 9.17 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------
OG 1.080, FG 1.019
ABV 8.2%, 60 IBU, 76.3 EBC

Will bulk prime with minimal dextrose and bottle for consumption in many years. And hopefully snare some award somewhere 
Once I get a quiet weekend and some 1028 ready to go this will be on the cards.


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## droid (14/7/15)

i did a 180 boil and enjoyed the taste but at 70ibu and 8.7% it was a bit high in bitterness and a bit llow in abv, due to a couple of miscalculations. 8% is the lower threshold of ris. I threw some dextrose and ldme in to help and a big starter of 1028 all personal taste tho


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## madpierre06 (14/7/15)

Ciderman said:


> I've got a 5L port barrel. Planning on putting in 20-25% in that. Fill right to the top and keep topping up to prevent oxidisation.



If this is the beer I had a couple weeks ago, it was bloody stunning mate. The bottle of it which I now possess will be sat upon and opened for a special occasion.

My Imperial Stout which I just put down a little while back and bottled 2 weeks ago.

*Coffee Imperial Stout 23L Batch*

B.B. Pale Malt 4.700kg

B.B. Crystal Malt 1.200kg

B.B. Wheat Malt 0.840kg

Voy. Buloke Choc Malt 0.720kg

B.B. Roasted Barley 0.240kg

Bairds Black Malt 0.240kg


Nthn Brewer Hops 84gm [email protected]

Cascade 50gm finishing for 5mins post boil


WLP007 Dry English Ale
Danstar Nottingham


Mash @ 65C 1 Hr, then mash off at 77C and begin lautering.
Sparge to 30L wort, boil 70mins

[email protected]

Aiming for 1.069, achieved 1.064
F.G. was 1.016

Then split the batch for coffee additions, half was 30gm fresh roast whole bean added at end of primary, soak for 18hrs prior to bottling. Other batch had 12hrs cold steeped and filtered coarse ground (27gm in 250ml) coffee from same roast batch added direct to fermenter. Initial taste of both prior to pitching....the whole bean batch was a tad sweeter and smoother, the steeped was a little drier in keeping with the taste of cold steeped coffee. 

This recipe was courtesy of Doug McNair of Redhook Breweries.


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## Mardoo (15/7/15)

Just reporting back, the Courage 1914 Imperial Stout recipe is the bomb. Chuck 10% of the patent malt into the boil whole. The Wyeast 1469 was fantastic fermented down near the bottom of its range. Awesome dark cherry-ish stonefruit esters. It crapped out at 9.5% and I had to finish with the WLP099 super high gravity. Next time I'm keeping the OG lower so I can just use the 1469 and keep every last one of those esters as the 099 chewed through quite a few of them (based on what I've read and heard on podcasts).

Easily one of my favourite styles now, with a permanent spot on my brew list. Commercially the Founder's RIS and the 8Wired iStout are two of my favourite examples.


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## Yob (15/7/15)

Here Here


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## TheWiggman (15/7/15)

How'd you manage the fermentation? For my 9.6% EBW it spent 2 weeks in the primary (1.5l starter, stir plate, ensured FG etc. etc.), was bulk primed with dextrose and then bottled. Used Wyeast 1028. No additional yeast or anything. It carbed up very nicely and remains by #1 beer to date.
My opinion is the less faffing about the better and I intend to do the same. Unless someone can give me a very good reason to put in a secondary.

Might do my recipe above and then the Courage. Can't hurt to have a few different RISs conditioning on the shelf surely?


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## Dave70 (15/7/15)

Mardoo said:


> Just reporting back, the Courage 1914 Imperial Stout recipe is the bomb. Chuck 10% of the patent malt into the boil whole. The Wyeast 1469 was fantastic fermented down near the bottom of its range. Awesome dark cherry-ish stonefruit esters. It crapped out at 9.5% and I had to finish with the WLP099 super high gravity. Next time I'm keeping the OG lower so I can just use the 1469 and keep every last one of those esters as the 099 chewed through quite a few of them (based on what I've read and heard on podcasts).
> 
> Easily one of my favourite styles now, with a permanent spot on my brew list. Commercially the Founder's RIS and the 8Wired iStout are two of my favourite examples.


How do you reckon it would go with a Belgian strain like 1388? To estery perhaps? At least the ABV would/t be an issue.


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## coopsomulous (15/7/15)

I brewed Courage 1914 Imperial Stout on the weekend. Its now fermenting using WLP007 as its what I had in the freezer.

Can't wait to see how it goes, but the SG samples so far have been delicious.


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## Mardoo (15/7/15)

Dave70 said:


> How do you reckon it would go with a Belgian strain like 1388? To estery perhaps? At least the ABV would/t be an issue.


I haven't used 1388 so can't say really. I've definitely been thinking about trying a Belgian strain. I would imagine that any overt phenolics would clash badly with the bitterness of the dark malts, but not sure. I've contemplated the WLP510 Bastogne Belgian Ale due to the totally untested-by-me notion that the slight tartness would complement the slight residual sweetness of the RIS. I think Yob may have tried a Belgian on this. Yob?

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp510-bastogne-belgian-ale-yeast


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## Ciderman (15/7/15)

madpierre06 said:


> If this is the beer I had a couple weeks ago, it was bloody stunning mate. The bottle of it which I now possess will be sat upon and opened for a special occasion.
> 
> My Imperial Stout which I just put down a little while back and bottled 2 weeks ago.
> 
> ...


That's the one. Look forward to trying yours!


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## Mardoo (15/7/15)

TheWiggman said:


> How'd you manage the fermentation? For my 9.6% EBW it spent 2 weeks in the primary (1.5l starter, stir plate, ensured FG etc. etc.), was bulk primed with dextrose and then bottled. Used Wyeast 1028. No additional yeast or anything. It carbed up very nicely and remains by #1 beer to date.
> My opinion is the less faffing about the better and I intend to do the same. Unless someone can give me a very good reason to put in a secondary.
> 
> Might do my recipe above and then the Courage. Can't hurt to have a few different RISs conditioning on the shelf surely?


Initial pitch was OG 1.115 wort onto a cake of 1469 that I had grown up with a Dry Stout. (Note: I do not recommend 1469 for a Dry Stout. Just didn't quite work.  ) Pitched at 15C and let rise to 17C, holding it there for 4 days and then bumping it to 18.5C. Primary went for two weeks until I was sure the 1469 had reached its limit at about 1.044 (9.3% ABV). I did a forced ferment test that went to 1.028. Then at the three week point I bumped the temp to 22.5C and pitched a very active 3 litre starter of the 099 at high krausen, no transfer to secondary. Virtually nothing happened for about 9 days and I was giving up hope, then I saw a 3 point drop finally and figured I'd just leave it to do its thing. I just left the temp at 22.5C. 3 weeks later I checked again and lo and behold the 099 had taken it down to 1.026. So, all told, about 7 weeks for the total ferment. If I had bottled I would have had a go at letting the 099 do its thing slowly. I transferred it to a secondary for conditioning at 2.5C. I'll be kegging it soon.

I had heard some references Jamil made to the 099 being able to sustain a high-alcohol pitch by having a very thick membrane, so I oxygenated and fed the starter at pitch and at 12 hours. I was a bit nervous about pitching the whole thing and oxydising the whole batch, but if there is any oxydation I haven't been able to taste it. I did not add any further oxygen to the fermenter. I'm not sure if the double oxy and feed made a difference to the 099 surviving a suicide pitch, but it doesn't seem to have hurt the beer.

Might just go pull a glass out of the conditioning fermenter now. It's been awesome at fermenter level carb. I will definitely be saving up for a hand pump for future RIS's.


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## manticle (15/7/15)

Mardoo said:


> I haven't used 1388 so can't say really. I've definitely been thinking about trying a Belgian strain. I would imagine that any overt phenolics would clash badly with the bitterness of the dark malts, but not sure. I've contemplated the WLP510 Bastogne Belgian Ale due to the totally untested-by-me notion that the slight tartness would complement the slight residual sweetness of the RIS. I think Yob may have tried a Belgian on this. Yob?http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp510-bastogne-belgian-ale-yeast


As far as belgians go, 1388 is restrained in phenolics. It's also got a great abv tolerance so an active starter can finish a stuck high gravity beer if the initial yeast conks out.
Be interesting to start with 1469 (my fave uk) and finish with 1388 (fave belgian).
When I get my stuff set up in a few weeks, I aim to knock out an alt. Following that, that courage ris looks like something I want to do a version of.


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## TheWiggman (16/7/15)

Cheers for the detailed comments, need more quality feedback like that in this forum. Considering the performance of London 1028 on the previous batch of 1.090 I might just -

Yeast nutrient
O2 inject
1.5l starter with the above, pitched after decanting
Ferment at 20°C until 1.020 and nudge to 24°C for a week
Bulk prime with ~20g dextrose, no extra yeast
Will report back in a few years.


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## Yob (29/7/15)

Just about to embark on my second barrel top up batches, my other 1.100 AG on a blend of 1084 (super fresh smack pack) and 099 active starter..

Second one will be a pimped toucan stout on greenbelt and 099 starter.. Blow off tube this time..

Epic..


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## Judanero (29/7/15)

I have a RIS that I am going to split into two ~10L batches, use the same yeast but vanilla beans in one and cacao nibs in the other.

For yeast I was going to use either WLP 022 (Essex Ale) or Wyeast 1203 (Burton IPA).

I had ~5L extra wort in the kettle that I threw 2x SO-4 packets at and got it from 1.102 down to 1.024, I figure the yeast just reached its alc tolerance with a grain bill of:

6kg MO mashed @ 65 and then into that wort;
1kg JW Trad ale,
1 kg JW Wheat,
1kg Red X,
600g TF Brown,
600g Ding Biscuit,
500g Golden naked oat,
350g Carapils, 300g TF Light xtal, 200g TF Med xtal, 100g TF Dark xtal
mashed @ 68

Total of 28L

Wyeast 1203 apparently only has a 10% alc tolerance, WLP022 has a 'medium' alc tolerance so I'm guessing that's only 10% tolerant as well.

Assuming they'll both stop around 1.024 like the S-04, could I add a packet of cbc-1at the same time to get it lower? Would co-flocculation be a concern?

Should I let either 1203 or 022 finish (or get close to) and then throw the cbc-1 at it? And if that's how I should proceed (which is my gut feeling) I should transfer to another fv and add the cbc to that?

Thought I'd throw it over to people that have successfully brewed something this big


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## Markbeer (1/8/15)

When looking at alcohol tolerances of yeast its not an absolute. 

Jamil has stated just about any ale strain will go to 12% and most to 15%.

But you have to pitch enough and aerate enough.

A cake of s04 took a ris from 1115 to 1030 in 2 days.

I wondered how much further I could push it. I drew off some and added sugar and it kept on going.

I suspect it went over 12% and still carbed in the bottle.

If i had pitched a couple of packs instead of a cake it probably wouldnt have.


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## droid (1/8/15)

44 liters fermenting out now and that finally fills up the 100 ltrs in the bourbon barrel. 4 different blends, 4 different brew days including the bummock brew (20% of total brew) ended up using London ale yeast all the way through and it performed fine, smells great that stuff. 

Could I keep racking out 20 ltrs here and there and replacing with another unfinished RIS or will the long term beer be compromised? I like the idea of adding a young RIS after pulling some older stuff out??


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## Yob (1/8/15)

You put the bummock ale in with the ris?


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## droid (1/8/15)

yes, i know i know call me a philistine - at that time it was doing my head in trying to work out how to fill and i didn't want 120ltrs of 10% brew.

so its a BRIS which is a Bummock RIS. the ingredients in the bummock ale only representing 20%

hopefully it will be worthy of swapping a bottle for someones bummock beer, so i can taste it


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## Judanero (1/8/15)

Markbeer said:


> When looking at alcohol tolerances of yeast its not an absolute.
> 
> Jamil has stated just about any ale strain will go to 12% and most to 15%.
> 
> ...


It was two packs for 5L.. I would have thought that enough, admittedly I didn't give it any 02 only a solid cube shaking for about 5 mins- something I've never done before.

It was impromptu that I even fermented the 5L, I just figured it'd be getting tipped out otherwise.


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## butisitart (1/8/15)

i'm pretty mesmerised by all this. so after you've done so much time in a secondary, and you finally bottle it, (serious question here cos i'm thinking about trying it), do you lay the bottles on the side during conditioning?? cos it sounds like wine or champagne proportions to me. or is there a tradition on that side of it??


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## manticle (1/8/15)

Not done ris but done a few aged beers (over a year). I do reseed but bottles stay upright.


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## Markbeer (2/8/15)

That is enough yeast. What i was getting at was the so4 yeast hadnt reached its alcohol tolerance but rather attenuated as far as it could go with that wort.

You can always draw a sample and add sugar and see if it can go higher.

I love my RIS. Favourite style after proper AIPAs.



Judanero said:


> It was two packs for 5L.. I would have thought that enough, admittedly I didn't give it any 02 only a solid cube shaking for about 5 mins- something I've never done before.
> 
> It was impromptu that I even fermented the 5L, I just figured it'd be getting tipped out otherwise.


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## gap (2/8/15)

butisitart said:


> i'm pretty mesmerised by all this. so after you've done so much time in a secondary, and you finally bottle it, (serious question here cos i'm thinking about trying it), do you lay the bottles on the side during conditioning?? cos it sounds like wine or champagne proportions to me. or is there a tradition on that side of it??


The only reason for laying down champagne or wine is if they are sealed with a cork. The cork will dry out and shrink if the bottle is upright, it will remain wet if the bottle is laying down.


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## Ditchnbeer (2/8/15)

I brewed my first RIS recently and learnt a lot - my 2nd will be much better. My efficiency was way lower than usual and I hadn't allowed for that, so I was shooting for 1100 but only got 1090 with added sugars. But I used 2.5 packs of US-05 in 14L batch, used real oxygen to aerate and it got down to 1020 so happy with the ferment. The first bottle was drinkable and now putting it away for minimum 6 months. I cant wait to brew the next one, I'll be much better prepared, know my system better when doing a high gravity brew. Regardless of achieved gravity from grains I'll always add a can of goo.


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## Markbeer (2/8/15)

If you are a 3 vessel brewer its cheaper, for me anyway, to just throw in more grain.

For a can of goo I can get 5kg of malt. I would rather just have the lower efficiency.

Of course a biab brewer might find adding extract easier as I used to do.


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## lael (2/8/15)

Kentucky breakfast stout clone. Still in secondary on oak chips but so far amazing. Recipe from hbtalk. 

Don't remember the OG... But it was above 1.090 lots of problems with mash getting stuck and sparging was super slow, but eventually got the sugars out into the boil 

I've done quadruppel clones in my system before, so I think it was the dark grains exploding into powder when milled that caused most of the issues. Might have been over ambitious with the amount in the malt pipe also


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## TheWiggman (2/9/15)

Recipe copy and paste from an earlier post:

Recipe: Russian Imperial Stout
Brewer: TheWiggman
Asst Brewer: J-Dog
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 16.88 l
Post Boil Volume: 14.04 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 11.25 l
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 81.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 66.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
4.220 kg Pale (Traditional Ale) Malt - JW (6.9 EB Grain 3 87.5 % 
0.090 kg Carafa III (1034.3 EBC) Grain 6 1.9 % 
0.300 kg Crystal, Medium - Simpsons (157.6 EBC) Grain 4 6.2 % 
0.120 kg Roasted Barley - JW (1150.0 EBC) Grain 5 2.5 % 
0.090 kg Chocolate Malt (1100.0 EBC) Grain 7 1.9 % 
30.73 g Challenger [7.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 38.6 IBUs 
30.73 g Goldings, East Kent [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 9 27.9 IBUs 
1.0 pkg London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028) [12 Yeast 11 - 
1.50 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
1.50 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 - 
0.50 tsp  Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 10 - 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.821 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Saccharification Add 15.53 l of water at 71.2 C 66.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Heat to 76.0 C over 10 min 76.0 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 9.17 l water at 75.6 C

I did this a few weeks ago with a fresh 1.5l starter. Result was 13l of 1.085 (watered down from 1.090) and ended up with a brewhouse efficiency of 79% which I'm stoked about.
Pitched at 17.5°C (ambient), fermented at 20°C for the most part with a few hours at >22°C because I didn't have the fridge hooked up and it generated a lot of heat.
Went from 1.085 to 1.024 in 5 days. Read that again if you want - FIVE days. I gave it a gentle rouse to see if would get down further but it was done. Looking back I did a single infusion mash, which I rarely do, and this is where I stuffed up.

Heated to 71°C using HERMS
Added grain, mash temp down to 65°C
Waited a few mins and started recirc.
The HERMS water was still really hot so the HERMSOUT temp went from 71 > 65°C over a few mins. This knocked my FG up a bit but I'm not too bummed.

15 days on the cake total, and bottled with 48g dextrose (1.8 vols CO2) bulk primed. Considering how quickly it chewed down I'm 100% confident that it carbonate fine. The smell was bloody intoxicating, just delicious. It tasted very nice too despite its youth.

So after all that I ended up with 13l of 8.4% RIS. It'll sit on the shelves for a year preferably and might crack one after news years for a 'taster'. Considering I paid $15 for an RIS on the weekend this is a very cheap way of making very good beer.


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## Yob (2/9/15)

I call bullshit on aging RIS, fookin awesome at about 2-6 months.... I'm a bit biased though.. None of mine have made it past about 6 months... Much to martin's Dismay... lol..

In the olden days of yore, aging was required to mellow out much of the crappy malts they were using... We are not cursed with such issues... I do agree that the taste will change over time though. 

I swear the barrel version will get some age though.. I swears it... It's got at least a month on it already  

I've only taken 6 bottles out to date.. Just to sample like.. And enter comps etc..


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## madpierre06 (2/9/15)

Reporting back on mine, the batch using the cold steeped addition was my favourite. It had a lot more body, flavours were deeper, greater depth in the coffee influence without being overpowering. Having said that, if you want a beer that is more sessionable but is gonna sneak up and kick you in the balls after half a dozen, try the whole bean version. Will certainly be doing this again, and maybe try some tweaking of background flavour additions.

Have only one bottle left, that's of the whole bean version. Sitting on that to try one particular addition tryout.


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## TheWiggman (3/9/15)

Yob said:


> I call bullshit on aging RIS, fookin awesome at about 2-6 months....


Fair call, it tasted schmicko already. DrS has been recently quoted at saying his RIS has hit prime at 5 years, so even though it might be a winner sooner I'm definitely going to put a few bottles aside. I think the trick is to brew more so that there is always surplus, and there will always be a handful at the back of the pile. Speaking of which, here's my big beer stash -





Oh yeah baby oo-ee mama. 9.6% EBW, 8.7% old Ale, 8.4% RIS. The EBW is a standout and is absolutely a better beer 12 months down the track. Only 1 bottle left though


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## takai (19/9/15)

I just put down an RIS today, ended up at 24°/1.103 OG, but planning on adding some more dextrose to the fermenter after a few days to see how high it may go.

Trying to figure out how i should account for this in the alcohol/OG calculations though. Should i just add the dextrose to the recipe as if it was a late boil addition, or is there another way?


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## Mardoo (19/9/15)

Add in as if late boil.


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## takai (19/9/15)

Cool, and just assume 100% efficiency (i don't see what could affect this)


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## mofox1 (19/9/15)

Efficiency shouldn't matter... brewmate will treat sugar additions as 100% (or in other words won't apply the eff% calcs) and I assume that beersmith et al would do the same.

Depending on what software you use, you may need to adjust the dex amount to cover the kettle/trub loss.


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## Black n Tan (19/9/15)

I agree with Mofox1 that you may need to adjust for losses between kettle and fermenter. This is how I would do it: kettle volume/fermenter volume x quantity dex added eg. if your fermenter volume is 23L and you lose 2L, then 25L/23LX1kg=1.09, so you would add 1kg dex to fermenter but enter it as 1.09kg in BS to allow for kettle losses. If your losses are small then it will make little difference.


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## takai (19/9/15)

Yeah, my kettle losses are quite small, about 1.01/1.00kg.


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## danestead (20/9/15)

What yeast are you using? I've got my first RIS in the fermenter ATM. It's been in there 1 week now and is at 1.031 (down from 1.099). Used wy1056. It raced down to 1.034 and has been trickling along at 1 point per day for the last few days. Hoping for 1.025ish.


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## takai (20/9/15)

Im using Mangrove Jacks British Ale, will see how it goes. I have some spare 099 that i can culture up if needed.


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## takai (22/9/15)

Well it went and did this:






Another krausen explosion. Smaller than last time thankfully, and that photo is post clean up. Really need to get another spike adapter for a blow off tube. 
Stout tastes good so far. Come from 1.103 to 1.060 in 48hrs. Keep on going little yeasties.


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## takai (26/9/15)

Well the fermentation is pretty much finished, and to reduce the chance of infections from the explosion im going to rack it off to secondary sooner rather than later. Planning on racking half of it ontop of oak chips, and half ontop of raspberries.

The American oak chips im figuring about 100g/10L and letting it soak for a while (after soaking them in Woodford bourbon). But not sure on the Raspberries, how much fruit would i need for a 10L batch?


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## Yob (26/9/15)

Lots.. In the Recent Geelong shoot-out, judges said there should have been more, I'd put 1.5kg into a 20lt batch, so double that if it's being judged, or about that if it's just for you, must be said, the one that was judges was 6 to 10 months old so may have backed off by then.


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## takai (26/9/15)

That taster you gave me was quite berry filled, so i reckon it would be overpowering with double that!


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## lael (27/9/15)

How did you do the raspberries yob? And where did you get 1.5kg for a reasonable price? (Or was it just expensive?)


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## Yob (27/9/15)

Got them at Costco 

Going to be growing them this year, screw their hepatitis berries...


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## danestead (27/9/15)

What fg did you end up with?


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## Yob (27/9/15)

1.115 to 1.030.. The extreme limits of style


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## danestead (27/9/15)

takai said:


> Well the fermentation is pretty much finished, and to reduce the chance of infections from the explosion im going to rack it off to secondary sooner rather than later. Planning on racking half of it ontop of oak chips, and half ontop of raspberries.
> 
> The American oak chips im figuring about 100g/10L and letting it soak for a while (after soaking them in Woodford bourbon). But not sure on the Raspberries, how much fruit would i need for a 10L batch?


What FG did you end up with?



Sorry Yob, I was referring to takai. Speaking of you though, looks like my RIS stopped at 1.031, down from 1.099. It's a bit higher than I wanted but out of the fermenter it doesn't taste to syrupy or anything at this stage so fingers crossed. I mashed at 68 degrees and it had 6.5% crystal so I am thinking its done. I've bumped the temp another 2 degrees, given it another rouse and will test again Thursday and bottle if it hasn't moved.


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## takai (27/9/15)

Mine has stopped at roughly 1.024, all from packet yeast!

Will take a hydrometer reading when i rack it off the yeast rather than my refrac readings.


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## danestead (27/9/15)

takai said:


> Mine has stopped at roughly 1.024, all from packet yeast!
> 
> Will take a hydrometer reading when i rack it off the yeast rather than my refrac readings.


Nice. I used my refractometer during the fermentation and when compared to my hydrometer it was spot on. Ill probably use it more often during fermentation to waste less beer from now on.


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## takai (27/9/15)

Yeah, i use mine through most ferments, but for this one i want the confirmation of the hydrometer as i have been adding dex to the primary and want to confirm the FG absolutely rather than having it dependent on the calculated OG.


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## takai (27/9/15)

Hydrometer reads 1.026, so within rounding/calculation error for the Refractometer reading. Win.


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## takai (30/9/15)

Split the secondary on the RIS today. 10L on 100g of American Oak chips that had been soaked in a mixture of Bowmore Cask Strength, Aberlour A'Bundh and Ardbeg Uggedail. Another 10L on 1kg of raspberries 

Took a solid FG reading too: 1.023. 14.87%


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## kaiserben (1/10/15)

takai said:


> Split the secondary on the RIS today. 10L on 100g of American Oak chips that had been soaked in a mixture of Bowmore Cask Strength, Aberlour A'Bundh and Ardbeg Uggedail.


How long had you soaked those chips for?


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## takai (1/10/15)

Four days in the end. Was planning for shorter but time got away.


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## primusbrew (1/10/15)

Takai, not sure how long you are planning to secondary but I would keep a pretty close watch on the oak chip half and taste regularly. In my (relatively limited) experience oak chips can lead to an over oaked beer pretty quickly.


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## takai (1/10/15)

Yeah, will be tasting every 24hrs on both.


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## Rod (5/1/16)

Rod said:


> I have brewed a RIS , recipe from this site , K&K by Dan Raynor
> 
> dan rayners RIS
> 
> ...



Had a bottle last night 

still tastes good

not many left


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## fraser_john (5/1/16)

Yob said:


> I swear the barrel version will get some age though.. I swears it...


Swears on the precious eh Yob?.....


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## Yob (5/1/16)

Well I kinda swears that I won't take any more out after THIS keg..?


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## Grott (5/1/16)

Mmm, not very convincing there Yob.


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## Yob (5/1/16)

TBH I can't. I've run out of top up RIS cubes


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## MastersBrewery (5/1/16)

RIS was the last brew I did before we moved. Having just started moving into the new place, I'm well out of anything pale, so over Xmas was forced to sample a few. There should be a few left for comp season though


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## Dozer71 (6/1/16)

Looking at doing my first RIS and have come up with this to date with a couple of questions.

Use BIAB so have reduced it to a total of 16L to the FV and allow for 1kg of LDM or dextrose to reduce overall grain bill and keep efficiency up (hopefully). Grain bill as follows




67.2% Gladfield Ale Malt 6.00kg
1.3% Black Patent Malt 0.12kg
6.2% CaraMunich 1 0.55kg
1.6% Barley Roasted 0.14kg
1.3% Chocolate Malt 1200 0.12kg
11.2% Munich 1 1.00kg

11.2% Dry Malt Extract Light 1.00kg


60 min of Northern Brewer/Goldings to 70IBU
US05 or Nottingham - probably US05
ABV to be around 10% which is based on reducing my normal efficiency (72-74%) to 65%. Based on this the ABV minus adjunct is around 8% which is my starting point for the yeast.

1st question - is LDM or dextrose better? Was thinking either mash at 68 (more body) and add dextrose which thins it a little or 66 and add LDM.

I plan on adding the dex/LDM starting on day 3 (bit each day) after yeast has taken off as I don't have oxygen and don't want to overload it. I no chill and will pour through a sieve into FV to aerate and stir vigorously/shake to get initial oxygen in - not perfect, but best I can manage.

2nd question - I have a 5L port barrel so will transfer some into this for experimentation. Is it correct that with smaller barrels the aging time is less - haven't found a lot of info as most use 5 Gallon barrels - and if so an approximate time frame (obviously will vary with taste) like 1 to 2 weeks or 1 to 2 months or longer.


Thanks


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## Markbeer (9/1/16)

I would use the extract if you wanted a fuller body and the dextrose for thinner. I would personally mash a little lower and use the ldme.

The port barrel idea sounds fine. You will need to taste periodically to see how it is going.

Your real problem imho is that you need more roasted grains in your recipe.


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## Dozer71 (9/1/16)

Thanks for that Markbeer.

Did this yesterday and cubed it. Mashed at 66 and will add LDME.

In regards to the roasted grains, it calc'ed out at 92EBC so I thought it would be enough. Will see how it goes and look at upping them next time for a comparison.


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## hoppinmad (9/1/16)

4.2% roasted grains doesn't seem like enough for a stout to me. I think the general rule is about 10-12% for most types of stout. For imperial stouts quite a few recipes I've seen are using up to 18%. It's not too late to add more of course, as you can always do some steeping with specialty malts in water and add that to your wort before you pitch the yeast.


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## Bribie G (9/1/16)

With BIAB, high gravity beer is one occasion when a sparge is beneficial. 
My RIS was full sized but of course needed around a 2 and a half hour boil to bring it back down to volume. 
I'd also recommend steeping more roasted and dark grains then boil down to a syrup.
That's how they make Guinness.


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## Dozer71 (9/1/16)

Thanks for the feedback. Will steep some more dark grains to get up around the 10-12% when I add to the FV. Cube is full at the moment. I did get an efficiency of 68% (my normal is 72-74%). Will look at sparge with increased boil next time.

One issue I did have (use a crown urn with concealed element that is 8 months old so has increased cut off temp) was a build up over the element area and was cutting in and out over the last 10 mins and just maintaining a boil/simmer (boil time 75 min to hit volume). Was set at maximum of 110. May have to look at scrubbing the base somehow during the boil. This is the only time it has happened and it does get cleaned between each brew.


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## Rod (13/3/18)

I made my batch on 03/06/2010

I have about 6 bottles left , less 1 last night

stored in green Grolsh bottles in a dark garage 

tastes great , still has a 2 cm head , and good effervescence 

came out a 8.7 % alcohol , by calculation , after I added 3 litres more water to finish @ 26 litres


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## Schikitar (15/3/18)

Dozer71 said:


> One issue I did have (use a crown urn with concealed element that is 8 months old so has increased cut off temp) was a build up over the element area and was cutting in and out over the last 10 mins


I have this problem quite regularly with my Crown Urn, it's like it needs to be seasoned or something to stop the fine particles from sticking to it. It's gets worse with bigger grain bills or a reiterated mash and I find that scraping with the spoon (need a better paddle!) seems to get things going just enough..



Dozer71 said:


> 67.2% Gladfield Ale Malt 6.00kg


Brewer from 10 Toes Brewing made an interesting comment to me, he said they had noticed increased astringency when using some of Gladfields malts, I felt I noticed the same thing with some of my brews so I've flicked back to maris otter and that's just got a nicer, rounded flavour..


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## Rod (7/9/20)

Rod said:


> Had a bottle last night
> 
> still tastes good
> 
> not many left


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## Rod (7/9/20)

Had another last night


bottled in 2010


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## Nullnvoid (7/9/20)

Rod said:


> Had another last night
> 
> 
> bottled in 2010



Why are you drinking it so soon? Have to let the flavours mellow? hahaha

Bet it was amazing. I have to get one of mine out to try. It's only a baby at 3 years.


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