# Ghetto immersion chiller.



## 431neb

Was cleaning up the shed and came across a coil of 1/2 inch annealed copper. I've wanted to make a wort chiller since I started AG so I just started messing around with it to see how hard it would be to coil. I know that most of you blokes coil it around a corny keg but I'm yet to take that step so i started on a Bunnings bucket and then tightened the coils on a 10 l paint can. Fair bit of grunting and groaning to do it by yourself. I imagine that a well secured pole or machine-round would make it a lot easier to get neat and tidy coils. I'm a bit pissed off that they are so out of shape but I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend more time on it. 

I used some stainless wire (cord for balustrades), some swages to secure it and some stainless wire to hold it all in place. I boil in a stainless keg so I'm guessing that'll be OK. 

I bent the copper connectors so It fits out of the handles on the keg. That way I can keep the lid on as it cools even though it's a bit loose. Keep the bugs out and all.

I searched for a recent thread without much luck , so I thought I'd start a new one.

Haven't used it yet.


----------



## dammag

Looks good. How many meters of tube did it take to make it?


----------



## jammer

That's not ghetto. That's fancy!


----------



## 431neb

dammag said:


> Looks good. How many meters of tube did it take to make it?


That was virtually a whole coil of lagged copper by the look of the coil when I found it. I will fit a false bottom in the keg(gle) eventually so it sits a little high. Because of the height I think some of the coil won't be immersed thus wasting some copper I suppose.


----------



## brad81

Reckon you could share how you assembled the adaptors?

Currently I have some vinyl tubing and I'd like to reassemble the ones I have, but have no idea on how to do it. I'd rather use the hoses in the backyard for in/out.

Cheers,

Brad


----------



## dougsbrew

heres my ghetto immersion chiller.


----------



## 431neb

brad81 said:


> Reckon you could share how you assembled the adaptors?
> 
> Currently I have some vinyl tubing and I'd like to reassemble the ones I have, but have no idea on how to do it. I'd rather use the hoses in the backyard for in/out.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Brad


Brad, the fittings are flared on the 1/2" copper side and the same size as a hose bib connector needs on the other ... Is that 1/2? I dunno. So ... In my best plumbers lingo - they laugh at me when I go to Reece for the boys - "1/2 inch flare by 3/4 male iron". That should get you what you need at a decent plumbing store - on't go to masters or Bunnings. Double check the size needed for a hose bib connector first. 

You lost me with the vinyl tubing - like Auspex or Sharkbite? Oh I think I get it. My intention is to plug the hose onto each side (garden hose) ...I just have to screw 'on the hose connectors after i sit the coil in the pot. I just haven't put them on for the pic.

Incidentally i think that if a male to male (brass) hose joiner is drilled out slightly it can be silver soldered to 3/4 copper pipe. That would be cool but I am too lazy for that shit. Will post close-ups later.





dougsbrew said:


> heres my ghetto immersion chiller.



Brad ! Same as my pool. I was gonna chuck a cube in for the next brew but I guess I won't need it now. A submersible pump and a pool would make a good water supply a heat exchanger come to think of it. I wonder if one of the pool jets could be... OK , I'm getting off on a tangent.


Aren't the covers a pain in the ring? Has the rope around the bottom frayed and fallen apart yet? I put one around the top and it's a s tight as a drum now.


----------



## 431neb

Close ups as promised.


----------



## brad81

Pics 3 & 4 along with your earlier description help a lot. Thanks for that 

Pic of the vinyl I mentioned:


----------



## 431neb

brad81 said:


> Pics 3 & 4 along with your earlier description help a lot. Thanks for that
> 
> Pic of the vinyl I mentioned:


AHHH. Gotcha.

Was bragging to a plumber mate tonight (Crap! I should have asked about plumbing terminology on that bastard fitting) about my pipe bending skill (Yeah right) and realised that if i cut either the handles or a slot in the side of the keg opening that it will be a lot easier to put in .


PS Does anyone know why the outside of my keg is rusty? I attacked it with a cup brush. Was I overzealous or should I go harder? i see some friggin' shiny kegs around here. What is the secret ? (I hope it's not skill and hard work).







jammer said:


> That's not ghetto. That's fancy!


Thanks Jammer. I thrive on praise. It's better than money.


----------



## spog

maybe the keg has rust on it from some metal sparks from cutting or other metal contact that has reacted with the keg. ..cheers..spog..


----------



## Dunkelbrau

Get some oxalic acid from bunnos (it's called diggers rust cleaner and near the timber yard in my bunnos)

It will strip the rust and repassivate the stainless. Any time you cut the stainless or chip or scratch, it will take the protective layer off that section, so you have to strip the entire area with an acid and it will repassivate over a few days, I just let mine drip dry.

That will stop any more rust. Chiller looks good! Nice work.


----------



## 431neb

Cheers Jurt.

I tried the chiller last night for the first time. 

I need to cut some slots in the keggle for the copper ends to drop into as I (stupidly) have to remove the hose fittings that are perilously close to my cooled wort, thus risking contamination from drips of tank water. Didn't think that through eh?

Lid sits OK over the chiller (bit wobbly). I didn't time it but it must have taken 40 minutes to drop the wort down to 26 degrees using water from the tank which is probably about 17 degrees.

All in all I'm very happy with it. Surprised at how quick it was in fact. I turned the pump off at one stage so I could eat my dinner without over chilling the wort.


----------



## Edak

My coil looks like Frankenstein compared to your lovely coil... I am too ashamed to post a picture of it. 

I love the idea of using the stainless thread to keep it tidy, might try that one myself.


----------



## tricache

Ghetto?? Far out I would hate to see your Fancy one :lol:


----------



## 431neb

Edak said:


> My coil looks like Frankenstein compared to your lovely coil... I am too ashamed to post a picture of it.
> 
> I love the idea of using the stainless thread to keep it tidy, might try that one myself.


Stainless wire might be better edak. I had some and I used it to tension the braided wire but something of the gauge of fencing wire might be better than the braided stuff. 

The reason I would swap out the braided stuff - Apart from the nooks an crannies within it - Is because the chrome on the brass swages dissapeared during the brew. 

Ignorance is bliss. I don't want to know what compounds it has left in the beer.

EDIT.

That said I'm not so worried that I would change it.


----------



## 431neb

Thought I should add that it takes about 25 mins to cool my wort down using 15 degree tank water.


----------



## WarmBeer

Hey Neb, you got a pipe bending tool handy?

My immersion chiller is nowhere near as well formed as yours, and the bendy bits are just about to kink if I add any more unsupported bend to them.

If you've got a pipe bender or some level of skillz, maybe I could borrow them/you some time. Would recompense you in either quality beer, or languishing of praise, of course.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Ok guys....time to ruin the fun.......

A nice coil of copper tub is about the worst form you can use...why.....well I am glad you asked

The coil will only cool the wort directly around it. This leaves hot wort in the center and sides of the kettle. 

What you need to do to increase the cooling speed is.

Agitate the wort as you cool

or

Make a birds nest out of your tube to increase the areas of hot wort.

Next time you use your nicely formed coil take a thermometer and check the temp difference in various parts of the kettle...remember that water is a poor conductore of heat...


----------



## brad81

^ Can definitely recommend that too.

I ended up pulling every alternate coil to the right (or left if you're that way inclined) and have noticed a drastic improvement in cooling speed. Give it a stir every now and then too.

WarmBeer, I have a pipe bender you can borrow. If I remember correctly it was about $15 from Bunnings if you want to get your own.


----------



## 431neb

WarmBeer said:


> Hey Neb, you got a pipe bending tool handy?
> 
> My immersion chiller is nowhere near as well formed as yours, and the bendy bits are just about to kink if I add any more unsupported bend to them.
> 
> If you've got a pipe bender or some level of skillz, maybe I could borrow them/you some time. Would recompense you in either quality beer, or languishing of praise, of course.


The fella next door is a plumber and a good mate so the pipe bender was easy. So easy that he virtually did it for me. I seem to have a lot of mates who are plumbers and two are within walking distance. 

If your pipe is already kinked or mis-shapen (the wort chiller you dirty bastards), bending it could be tricky. I reckon that cutting off the deformed section and silver soldering some nice bends onto your existing unit would be the right idea. Either way, I'm sure I can make it happen. PM me and I'll make inquiries on Thurs night.





Ducatiboy stu said:


> What you need to do to increase the cooling speed is.
> 
> Agitate the wort as you cool
> 
> or
> 
> Make a birds nest out of your tube to increase the areas of hot wort.


Agreed. I think mine might work better if there was more separation between the coils too. Too anal for birds nests and won't be agitating chillers when I can either eat my dinner (always seems to be dinner time when I'm chilling) or have a beer. 

I dunno if my method helps with the cool-down but I "whirlpool" after flameout and whack the lid on the keggle in the belief that the wort will swirl for a while and help with heat transfer. I'm new to all grain though and haven't tried other methods. So I'll keep my coils for a bit longer I think.

For those that are curious I whirlpool again after I hit my temperature and walk away for another half hour. Still wanting a better trub cone and more compact / solid trub so not sure if my advice really is advice or a mistake to be avoided. If only I could lift the bastard thing out without disturbing the cold break and hop snot. Others will advise.

PS

I tried to update this thread from my phone today so that I could amend the time it takes to chill my wort. 40 minute or whatever I said up there ^^^ was a guess - 25 or 30 minutes would be much closer to the mark but the water in my tanks is an icy 15 degrees.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

seperation does not work. Been there...blah blah

What you need to do is allow the pipe to become available to as much of the wort in a non uniform way....you want the pipe to be in as many places as possible.

The best chiller I have seen looked like a ball of tube.....it ugly as as **** but it cooled wort like you would not believe......


----------



## Camo6

This setup used to work for me. Used it in my biab setup with a lil brown pump to recirc and worked a treat. Will have to reemploy it in my herms setup (still using the same IC minus the whirlpool attach. ) as cooling is a lot slower and have to constantly agitate as per Ducati's post.


----------



## WarmBeer

I'm planning on using my newly acquired March pump to recirc from my kettle outlet, back through silicone hose, which will be attached with some stainless wire to the chiller, just under the surface of the wort. This will give me a ghetto whirlpool immersion chiller until I get my skit together to make/jerry a real one.

At the moment, I just need to bend both the bottom, and top sections so I've got a nice stable chiller to secure the hose to.

Edit: Camo beat me by 30 seconds.


----------



## 431neb

Camo this is the coolset chiller I have ever seen Pardon the pun and thanks for the link. Methinks modifications are in order. Now I'm shitty that I rushed mine.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Grrrrr....coils are not as good as a birdsnest....


----------



## Camo6

WarmBeer said:


> Edit: Camo beat me by 30 seconds.


My missus tells me this all the time. 




431neb said:


> Camo this is the coolset chiller I have ever seen Pardon the pun and thanks for the link. Methinks modifications are in order. Now I'm shitty that I rushed mine.



This is the build I used too. I ended up spacing the coils with copper wire but then it made the 18m of tube taller than the kettle. Will post a pic if I can find one.





Ducatiboy stu said:


> Grrrrr....coils are not as good as a birdsnest....


Now your starting to sound like the kids at work with their gen Y haircuts.  Curls get the girls!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

No...curls get your wort chilled faster...and that is what you want

Using a coil coil and stiring is all well and good but you are missing the point of a quick chill and having the trub settle ....

You want to have a good fast chill but also allow the trub to settle ..

Makes for a clearer wort in your ferm.


----------



## pk.sax

The meaning of ghetto is lost here...


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

I so want to.....


----------



## technobabble66

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No...curls get your wort chilled faster...and that is what you want
> 
> Using a coil coil and stiring is all well and good but you are missing the point of a quick chill and having the trub settle ....
> 
> You want to have a good fast chill but also allow the trub to settle ..
> 
> Makes for a clearer wort in your ferm.


Hey Ducatiboy stu,

Sorry if i'm being a bit of a thickee, but it'd be great if you could spell out a little bit of this for me. (I'm still trying to decide whether it's worth going the cheaper Immersion Chiller option for the time being)

*Can you clarify how you get a nice whirlpool & cone formed while chilling with your big birds nest style of immersion chiller??*

I had kinda assumed the simple coiled version was used to allow the whirlpool to occur while chilling, and you just had to accept the compromise in efficiency due to reduced mixing/contact.
Wouldn't the big birds nest cause too much agitation thru the whirlpool & prevent the cone forming? And i thought the cone had to form while the wort was hot. Or can you just whirlpool after the IC has chilled the wort down.

Thanks!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Go away


----------



## technobabble66




----------



## Ducatiboy stu

You dont need to whirlpool if your trub settles nicely. Which is what a good chill will do


----------



## technobabble66

Aah. Comprendez
Thanks


----------



## pk.sax

If you have high resistance to flow in the middle, the energy in the vortex in the centre will drop significantly, aiding precipitation. As long as your design lets you introduce that energy into the wort in the first place.

Aim is to get high rotating fluid around the walls of the kettle and slow/stationary hops n break in the middle.


----------



## Beerisyummy

practicalfool said:


> Aim is to get high rotating fluid around the walls of the kettle and slow/stationary hops n break in the middle.


You can add a ring to the bottom of the kettle to aid in this. It creates a great little low pressure system that catches all the crap.


----------



## 431neb

Beerisyummy said:


> You can add a ring to the bottom of the kettle to aid in this. It creates a great little low pressure system that catches all the crap.


BiY can you take a picture and whack it up here so we can see it. I'm assuming that you have done the same. 





practicalfool said:


> If you have high resistance to flow in the middle, the energy in the vortex in the centre will drop significantly, aiding precipitation. As long as your design lets you introduce that energy into the wort in the first place.
> 
> Aim is to get high rotating fluid around the walls of the kettle and slow/stationary hops n break in the middle.


My logic, (I call it logic anyway) leads me to believe turbulence, that interferes with the (unnecessary - see I am listening Ducatiboy stu!) whirlpool is going to prevent the descent and consolidation of the trub / break. Can you expand on effective methods of introducing that resistance and do you mean smooth / uniform resistance like a ring as mentioned above or can it be more "intrusive". I'm leaning towards uniform and wondering if something like a false bottom would work? The perforations should slow that vortex in the middle nicely.





Ducatiboy stu said:


> You dont need to whirlpool if your trub settles nicely. Which is what a good chill will do


Anyone else that doesn't whirlpool? I could save 20 minutes on a brew day if I could simply chill and drain into the fermenter without removing the chiller. In which case I will hastily fabricate a birdsnest DBS.


----------



## donburke

can someone post a pic of a birdsnest chiller, i've got no idea of what it looks like

i still believe a whirlpool is beneficial, even if chilling superfast you will end up with the trub spread evenly over the base of a flat bottomed kettle

you could raise your pickup tube, but the benefit of whirlpooling is to concentrate the trub in the centre, leaving the perimeter of the pot clear, which is where the pickup tube should be positioned


----------



## donburke

WarmBeer said:


> I'm planning on using my newly acquired March pump to recirc from my kettle outlet, back through silicone hose, which will be attached with some stainless wire to the chiller, just under the surface of the wort. This will give me a ghetto whirlpool immersion chiller until I get my skit together to make/jerry a real one.
> 
> At the moment, I just need to bend both the bottom, and top sections so I've got a nice stable chiller to secure the hose to.
> 
> Edit: Camo beat me by 30 seconds.


there is a ideal depth and angle with which the whirlpool outlet should be positioned, i think the thread here was titled 'angle of the dangle' or something like that. if i remember correctly, about 1/3 of the way up was ideal.

i recommend you consider that thread before you make your permanent modification


----------



## pk.sax

@ neb, turbulence, by definition is disturbance of flow, thus it consumes energy to create the necessary change in speed and position of the fluid.

Liken it to winnowing grain, you shake it and toss, effectively disturbing its state and adding energy, the lighter chaff will keep flowing in the direction of the push you have the grain (by tossing it) while the grain drops.

If you whirlpool and then stick the paddle in the middle a few inches into the surface. The rotating fluid will quickly start losing energy in the middle. Not so much required in a nice wide pot here viscosity does the job but in a narrow pot, like a keggle, little tricks like this can make all the difference. I'll try some of this out in the next one and get back to you, I've the perfect kettle atm to try it in.


----------



## WarmBeer

donburke said:


> there is a ideal depth and angle with which the whirlpool outlet should be positioned, i think the thread here was titled 'angle of the dangle' or something like that. if i remember correctly, about 1/3 of the way up was ideal.
> 
> i recommend you consider that thread before you make your permanent modification


Too late, that bridge has already been crossed (thanks to 421neb, and his friendly neighbour).

My wet test, using just water and some crud that fell off the chiller when I cleaned it, gave a pretty good whirlpool in the middle of the kettle, even without scientific measuring or evidence of other malarkey. A small pile of "bits" (can't think what else to call it) in the middle of my kettle, away from my pickup.

Remember when you were a kid, and you and a mate used to walk/run around the inside perimeter of his swimming pool in circles, making a whirlpool? Seemed to collect all the dirt and stuff in the middle of the pool, all without being too specific about angle, velocity or duration...


----------



## 431neb

WarmBeer said:


> Too late, that bridge has already been crossed (thanks to 421neb, and his friendly neighbour).
> 
> My wet test, using just water and some crud that fell off the chiller when I cleaned it, gave a pretty good whirlpool in the middle of the kettle, even without scientific measuring or evidence of other malarkey. A small pile of "bits" (can't think what else to call it) in the middle of my kettle, away from my pickup.
> 
> Remember when you were a kid, and you and a mate used to walk/run around the inside perimeter of his swimming pool in circles, making a whirlpool? Seemed to collect all the dirt and stuff in the middle of the pool, all without being too specific about angle, velocity or duration...


When I was a kid? I was going to mention it but I was reluctant to mention my white trash pool that sits proudly in my front yard. Come tonthink of it I think I let the cat out of the bag early in the thread. I whirlpool it so that I don't have to spend time vacuuming it. 

I'm glad it works WB. We probably could have put more effort into that. Next time.


----------



## recharge

Thought i'd share my effort for today.
I think it qualifies as ghetto. 
Fits snuggly in my kettle and I think its real perty.

Rich


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

That is a far better chiller than a straight coil would ever hope to be.

Well done.


----------



## recharge

Cheers will have to wait till after new years to test it but think it will do the job nicely. Had the coil in the shed for years. Pretty sure from memory it was 15m.

Rich


----------



## Edak

That thing belongs in MOMA, for those less cultured that is the Museum of Modern Art. Well done man.


----------



## QldKev

recharge said:


> Thought i'd share my effort for today.
> I think it qualifies as ghetto.
> Fits snuggly in my kettle and I think its real perty.
> 
> Rich



It looks like the Flying Spaghetti Monster has evolved into an immersion chiller


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

The flying spaghetti chiller.


----------



## timmi9191

I want to see the post reporting back on the first attempt at cleaning the spaghetti chiller..


----------



## recharge

Flying spagetti monster chiller it is. (Was going to name it "Chaos").

Quick soak in Napisan and a hose of should see it cleaned easy enough, but i will report back.

Rich


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

timmi9191 said:


> I want to see the post reporting back on the first attempt at cleaning the spaghetti chiller..


No harder than a coil.


----------



## timmi9191

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No harder than a coil.



The very inside loop with a poofteenth clearance around it has some built up break on it.. No harder than a coil??


----------



## Glot

Has anyone experimented with a conical shaped spiral chiller?


----------



## timmi9191

Glot said:


> Has anyone experimented with a conical shaped spiral chiller?



That would be a sexy chiller!!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

timmi9191 said:


> The very inside loop with a poofteenth clearance around it has some built up break on it.. No harder than a coil??


Spread the pipe a bit, soak in nappi san. No harder than a coil.

Plus the chiller goes in about 10min from end of boil. 

Dont know why you think its harder to clean.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Glot said:


> Has anyone experimented with a conical shaped spiral chiller?


You are still going to have the same issues as a straight coil. The center and outer edges will still stay hot compared to the temp close to the coil. Water is not a very good conductor of heat. Thats why a random spaghetti works better.


----------



## Camo6

A blast with the hose after use should clean any IC. I then brush mine when dry to remove hop debris and it's good to go. I've started to throw my IC in at the start of boil as that way it doesn't affect my hop additions waiting for the boil to return. Every once in a while I'll boil some PBW in the keggle and throw the IC in to clean it up.

That FSMIC (flying spaghetti monster immersion chiller) looks da bomb if you have a decent open kettle. My standard IC needs constant agitation as I'm yet to reinstate my LBP JZ WP IC : Phew, so many abbreviations I almost feel Gen Y.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Camo6 said:


> My standard IC needs constant agitation


Thats why I made a "FSM Chiller " ages ago. Agitating with a coil disturbed the trub to much and I had to then let the wort sit sit it would settle. The FSM let the trub settle and chilled quicker.

Note: Was not my invention, I got the idea from Wortgames.


----------



## recharge

I certainly have no concerns about keeping it clean.
My plan is to chill with it sitting on my cake rack, so trub doesn't get disturbed.
Then siphon away.
I don't have any valves on my kettles.

Rich


----------



## Edak

An I don't something wrong here? I usually cool then whirlpool, should I be doing it the other way around? Is the whirlpool even necessary? Might save time in new day if not.


----------



## Camo6

I guess it depends on your chiller method and trub cone formation.

I cool then whirpool due to having to agitate the chiller to improve it's efficiency. However, using a keggle, I never get a good trub cone and tend to drain a fair bit of crap anyway. I used to have a whirlpool attachment on my chiller like Jamil's, running off a LBP and this had the benefit of improving heat exchange and concentrating the trub in the centre of the keggle. I'd start recircing 10mins before the end of boil to sterilise, then cover and chill. I'd then switch the pump off when down to temp and give it 10 mins to settle, then drain. This meant I could keep the kettle covered for the whole chilling process. I'm planning on using this method on my 4V but by using a whirlpool inlet in the keggle wall.

I'd be keen to hear if anyone uses a whirlpool port on their kettle and what height, direction etc to place it?


----------



## Bribie G

Back to the OP and in light of the current chillin thread:


How many metres of annealed copper would be reasonable - does it come in a standard range of lengths?
What diameter?
How much from Bunnings all up including the fittings on each end of the tube?
How did you attach the fittings, do you need a special tool or soldering, or are there "snap on" fittings available?

If not too exxie I might give chilling a go as the water supply is a lot cooler here in Mexico than it was North of the Border, and we have no water restrictions ATM thanks to the mighty Barrington Tops. Can always sell the unit if I end up going back to NC.

Edit, yes I DAS and would this be what I'm looking for?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

That coil will be enough for a FSM chiller.

Standard garden hose will slip over the end. Use hose clamps and garden hose fittings. If your worried about cost then cut 6 inches off each end of your neaighbours hose. You will only go to jail if you cut more than 8".

Dont be scared Bribie. Even you can make one.


----------



## recharge

Has anyone considered collecting the water for the next brew.
I was planning on using some of the hot water for cleaning and reusing left overs via pond pump next time just adding back what was used for cleaning. 

Rich


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

When I was on tank water I would feed the output back into the tank. 

If you have some where to store it, do it.


----------



## Bribie G

Right, just hose and clamps. Thanks for that DBS - I might even go better homes and gardens and get them with wingnuts 

Would the annealed pipe bend ok (thinking of birdnest) without filling with sand?


----------



## MartinOC

> Has anyone considered collecting the water for the next brew.


Yep! Used to do it all the time. I filtered the chilling water on it's way to the IC & diverted the output to the HLT, or MLT. A bit of heat & it's ready for the next dough-in. If you continue to do this, each successive AG brew ends-up only taking an average of 3 hours, rather than the usual 5-8. I used the final IC output for cleaning-up.

It makes for a bitch of a brew-day (ie. LONG!), but if you're organized, it's well worth the effort.


----------



## Glot

When ever I see anyone cutting 150mm off a garden hose, they usually also have an empty coke bottle in their hand.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu

Glot said:


> When ever I see anyone cutting 150mm off a garden hose, they usually also have an empty coke bottle in their hand.


You should hit them up for the the hose fittings


----------



## recharge

Bribie G said:


> Would the annealed pipe bend ok (thinking of birdnest) without filling with sand?


I bent mine around an old pulley for the tighter bends.

Rich


----------

