# Irish Moss (whirlflock)



## Tony (29/3/06)

When i did my double brew day yesterday, i was so busy i forgot to chuck in the irish moss tablet when i was boiling the dunkelweizen.

I did notice a lack of break in the botton of the boiler when i ran it into the firmenter.

It only clicked thismorning that i had forgotten it.

I have forgotton to ues it a couple of times before and i found that the beer took a bit longer to clear, but it did clear out eventually.

Is it one of these things we use "because to brew shop told up too" Of cause "palmer said so"

I do find i get more break with it.

who uses and who doesnt?

cheers


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## KoNG (29/3/06)

i use it like you do Tony.. when i bloody remember. 
to be honest i'm not entering competitions so clarity isnt a great concern to me, which is probably why i forget sometimes.
i do think it makes a bit of difference though.


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## T.D. (29/3/06)

I forget to add it more often than not, which kind of explains why I have only ever bought one pack of 10 tablets from the home brew shop!!

I did make sure I put in 1/2 a tablet in the weekend's brew that was the Xmas in July case, but that was just to try and make it a bit more aesthetically presentable since fellow brewers will be drinking it instead of me. When I am brewing my own beers I am pretty much entirely indifferent between using it and not.


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## beerbelly (29/3/06)

Hi tony i am no expert but i always use irish moss in my boils.Helps with chill haze as well as clearing the wort.


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## warrenlw63 (29/3/06)

Tony.

Most notes on the stuff tell you to add it 5 minutes from flameout. I'm hazarding a guess with the "no chiller" method you may be rendering the stuff useless anyway from extended heating. 

Open to conjecture here. h34r: 

Warren -


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## Doc (29/3/06)

I use Koppafloc (powdered version) @ 15 mins except in Wits and hefeweizens.
Haven't forgotten in a long long time so can't actually recall if it makes a lot of difference or not on my system.

Doc


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## Tony (29/3/06)

Well i was told a while back by a respected microbrewer that it has something to do with protein being negative and the irish moss being positive or visa versa.

when you chuck it in the brew it atracts the proteins (opposites atract) and settles them up faster.

something like that.

I use it all the time, forget maybe 1 in 10 brews and i do notice it when i froget.

cheers


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## Gough (29/3/06)

I forgot it for the first time in ages 2 brews ago and definitely noticed a difference when chilling/whirlpooling. The brew is currently lagering so I can't comment yet on final clarity issues. Other than that I've pretty much always used it...

Shawn.


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## bindi (29/3/06)

I use it in every boil 10 min from flame out  funny I also forgot when doing the "no chill" <_< last week which is now in 2nd from today and looking [clear] and tasting very good.


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## timmy (29/3/06)

I've always used it at 20mins, maybe I'll try it at 10.


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## PeterS (29/3/06)

It is interesting to note that we have as many variations to its use as we have brewers. I see that some introduce it into the boil 20 min, some 10 min and some 5 minutes before flame out. Just to be different at the time I purchased some whirlflock, I did some research and on that basis I have been using 1/2 tablet in 23L batch 15 min before flame out. 

In summary now we have users that throw the stuff in the boiler 20, 15, 10 and or 5 minutes before flame out. As to its effectiveness I must say I never experimented, therfore no comment.

Cheers,
PeterS.... :chug:


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## Trent (29/3/06)

I try to always use it, especially in my pale beers, 15 mins before flameout. I forgot to add it to an APA a mont or so back, and it was quite hazy, took ages to clear, but I am now getting a little chill haze in it, so I will try not to forget again in future. I dont think that the extended heating time will affect it, I am pretty sure it works in the kettle, reducing the amount of break you will siphon out.
All the best
Trent


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## Jye (29/3/06)

At the beginning of my boil I hydrate my irish moss in half a glass of water and then add it in the last 2 minutes.


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## Doc (29/3/06)

I add koppafloc @ 15mins, which is usually in conjunction with a hop addition.

Beers,
Doc


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## johnno (29/3/06)

I use a quarter of a tablet 15 mins before flameout.

johnno


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## Batz (29/3/06)

Doc said:


> I add koppafloc @ 15mins, which is usually in conjunction with a hop addition.
> 
> Beers,
> Doc
> [post="117029"][/post]​



Ditto

Batz


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## razz (29/3/06)

G'day Tony, I concur. I have forgotten to add it several times in the last 12 months and the difference in hot break is noticeable. In beers that have dark grains it doesn't seem to be much of a problem as they have some effect on the beer turning out very bright. Pale coloured beers seem to benefit more from the addition of irish moss. Overall, I only brew about 8 double batches each year so time is my friend and irish moss or not, I end up with brilliantly clear beer. (6-8 weeks cold conditioning)

Regards, John


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## Gough (29/3/06)

I'm a 15 minute 1/2 tablet adder of whirlfloc, again, usually with a hop addition.

Shawn.


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## Tony (29/3/06)

I add a whole tablet (cruched to a powder) to a 45 to 50 liter brew at 15 min and it works for me.

I tried re-hydratring it but i didnt see any improvement but maybe i did it wrong.

Interesting replys.

Seems most feel it doesa make a difference and its worth using.

cheers


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## mika (29/3/06)

I thought the purpose (or one of) of the Irish Moss was to reduce the chance of boil overs ??


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## AndrewQLD (29/3/06)

Irish moss helps the protiens coagulate and drop out of suspension. But when you toss it in it will foam violently at times and cause a boil over


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## warrenlw63 (29/3/06)

I heat mine on a bit of foil or a spoon ... Nah, forget that. :lol: 

Crush it (half a tab to 40 litres), add it to 1/2 cup of boiling water, stir it and put it in the last 5 mins.

Warren -


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## MHB (29/3/06)

After a bit of a read-through on my noted and my suppliers documentation:- 

Kettle finings like Irish moss should be added at a rate of 4-8g/100L or around 6g / 100 L of hot wort, late enough to help the proteins condense and precipitate, but not so early that the fining it self is denatured. 10 to 15 minutes from flame out appears to be the accepted range.

For a 25 L wort the recommended dose would be 1.5g.
Whirlflock is ~50% Irish moss and a dispersant as they average around 2.5g this gives 1.25g of fining in each tablet.

1 tablet is well with in the recommended dosing range of 1-2g / 25 L.

The reason they are tableted and mixed with a dispersant is to prevent the problems of excessive foaming that can be caused by adding hydrated or powdered Irish moss.
The Whirl part of the name comes from the action of the dispersant, which causes the tablet to spin promoting mixing and as it dissolves slowly you get a reduced risk of a boil over. 

So no need to powder them up, 1 tablet / 25 L tablet near the end (10-15 minutes out).

MHB


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## Gough (30/3/06)

MHB said:


> After a bit of a read-through on my noted and my suppliers documentation:-
> 
> Kettle finings like Irish moss should be added at a rate of 4-8g/100L or around 6g / 100 L of hot wort, late enough to help the proteins condense and precipitate, but not so early that the fining it self is denatured. 10 to 15 minutes from flame out appears to be the accepted range.
> 
> ...




So you reckon 1 tablet rather than 1/2 is the way to go Mark??

Shawn.


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## Ross (30/3/06)

MHB said:


> The reason they are tableted and mixed with a dispersant is to prevent the problems of excessive foaming that can be caused by adding hydrated or powdered Irish moss.
> 
> [post="117125"][/post]​




I throw a small handful of irish moss into the boil 10 mins from the end. I have never noticed any foaming whatsoever :blink: Am I just lucky?

Cheers Ross...


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## T.D. (30/3/06)

MHB,

That's funny that you recommend 1 tablet in 25L. I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, but if anything, I've always heard people say that 1/2 a tablet was too much! Who knows! Looks like you've got some decent stats on the content of the Whirflock tables though...

I reckon I only remember to put it in for maybe one in five brews. I must say, the resulting beers are never much different in clarity. I think the clarity of the final product is affected by so many factors - ve had beers that have has whirflock in them that have been hazy, and other beers that don't have it in them that are crystal clear! That's why I try to remember to add it but if I forget I'm never too worried...


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## Gough (30/3/06)

Ross said:


> MHB said:
> 
> 
> > The reason they are tableted and mixed with a dispersant is to prevent the problems of excessive foaming that can be caused by adding hydrated or powdered Irish moss.
> ...



I usually get a bit of a minor foam up when I chuck mine in. Certainly nothing like a boilover or anything, but it does sort of hiss and foam up a little extra momentarily. I'd always just put it down to the ol' surface tension thing, same as with hop additions. I think Andrew mentioned 'violent foaming' in an earlier post, so maybe we've just been lucky thus far Ross?  

Shawn.


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## MHB (30/3/06)

It appears that 1 tablet / 25 L is the right amount rather than the tablet that has been the norm. I have always recommended a tablet but will change that, it often pays to check conventional wisdom live and learn!

I specifically mentioned Hydrated or Powdered forms as being linked to excessive foaming.
When you add the raw strands of Irish moss they take time to hydrate and disperse into the wort, this will reduce the risk of foaming, the trade off is a reduced efficiency.

MHB


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## bindi (30/3/06)

I will add Half a tablet with the 10 min hops in the double batch [first ever double] I am mashing as I type  This time I won't forget.
BTW it's a 'no chill' double 

Edit spelling, again :angry:


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## T.D. (30/3/06)

Oooo, flirting with death doing a no chiller double batch!!!  May the force be with you bindi. 

 :lol:


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## Borret (30/3/06)

Can't say I've had a foam up, but the do skoot nicely around the top of the boil as they fizz away. Almost like a cadbury advert.. :lol:

Brent


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## Pumpy (30/3/06)

Ross said:


> MHB said:
> 
> 
> > The reason they are tableted and mixed with a dispersant is to prevent the problems of excessive foaming that can be caused by adding hydrated or powdered Irish moss.
> ...



Ross a small handfull  

I thought it was Irish Moss was a seaweed :blink: 

Have I missed something I put half a tab :unsure: 

Or do you have it floating around in the sea? where You live 

Pumpy


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## Tony (30/3/06)

Well that kind of makes sence Mark.

Most brewers brew 18 to 25 liter batches, usually cause this amount is managable and the equipment to do it is easier to get.

Why would they make a tablet that has to be cut in half each time you brew ???

I was originaly told to use a 1/4 of a tablet in 23 liters of AG wort. It was a pain in the arse trying to divide it up. So i went to half a tablet and it has always worked.

Bloody hell, that means i need 2 tablets / 50 liter brew.

Will try 2 in the next 50 liter batch and see if that helps any.

cheers


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## T.D. (30/3/06)

May also help to explain why I haven't been all that blown away by whirflock - as I said, I've never really noticed much correlation between adding/forgetting it and getting clear/hazy beer.


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## bindi (30/3/06)

T.D. said:


> Oooo, flirting with death doing a no chiller double batch!!!  May the force be with you bindi.
> 
> :lol:
> [post="117180"][/post]​


 Thanks T.D.  moving to the dark side of the force [and loving it]


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## Darren (30/3/06)

There are many forms of Irish moss/Copperfloc. Never had boilover with irishmoss that looks like seaweed. Copperfloc that is a white tablet will cause a boilover. I usually use 1/2 tab per 65 litre batch.
One thing to consider is if you use too much it will affect your head retention.
1/4 tab for 25 litres is about right.

cheers
Darren


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## razz (30/3/06)

Tony, I put a full tab in 42 lts and that works okay.

John


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## Tony (30/3/06)

yeah the full pill in 50 liters has been working so why change it.

cheers

interesting to hear everyones different views though


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## Doc (30/3/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> I heat mine on a bit of foil or a spoon ... Nah, forget that. :lol:



If you have a set of scales accurate for measuring cocaine then they should be accurate enough for weighing irish moss/whirlfloc/koppafloc.

Gotta love using Jamilz quotes 

Doc


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## poppa joe (30/3/06)

I found some Irish Moss.in a sealed packet...from years ago..
Has to be nearly 30 yrs old
Whats my chances../????????????????
Pj


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## warrenlw63 (31/3/06)

Doc said:


> If you have a set of scales accurate for measuring cocaine then they should be accurate enough for weighing irish moss/whirlfloc/koppafloc.
> 
> Gotta love using Jamilz quotes
> 
> ...



Ooookay... So you're that kind of Doctor, Doc? :lol: 

Actually listened to the Jamil show the other day... His insights on Ordinary Bitter wern't too bad I must admit. :beerbang: 

'Scuse the OT.

Warren -


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## Aussie Claret (31/3/06)

Hi,
I've just started on the slippery slop of partials and have started to use irish moss, but I bought a pack from Brewcraft and the stuff is not in a tablet form, but looks like dried moss flakes. I've been adding about 1 teaspoon of the stuff to each boil for about 15mins boil.
Is the whirlfloc stuff any different? Am I adding the correct amount of the flakes?

Thanks in advance
AC


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## bindi (31/3/06)

Found This on Irish moss/Wirlfloc using the search  plenty there just type it in.


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## Jye (31/3/06)

Doc said:


> warrenlw63 said:
> 
> 
> > I heat mine on a bit of foil or a spoon ... Nah, forget that. :lol:
> ...



LOL


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## chillamacgilla73 (31/3/06)

I usually prep my hop additions in little bowls(Like the poxy TV chefs) and bung 1/2 a tab in the flavour hops bowl so I don't forget. Perhaps don't rack and make a Heffedunkelweizen?


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## Pumpy (31/3/06)

poppa joe said:


> I found some Irish Moss.in a sealed packet...from years ago..
> Has to be nearly 30 yrs old
> Whats my chances../????????????????
> Pj
> [post="117327"][/post]​



What would that make it <_< 1976 

PJ I would not trust anything they were selling in tablet form in those Psychedelic days :blink: 

Pumpy


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## Stuster (31/3/06)

chillamacgilla73 said:


> I usually prep my hop additions in little bowls(Like the poxy TV chefs) and bung 1/2 a tab in the flavour hops bowl so I don't forget.
> [post="117378"][/post]​



Me too. Easy to remember.  

Gerard, being the good drug pusher he is, gave me a taste of this for free earlier this year, and now I can't live without.


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## Steve (3/10/06)

I used Whirlfloc for the first time yesterday. I added half a tablet to 26-27 ish litres at 15 mins (with a hop addition). After reading this thread can someone explain "it helps with the hot break"? Am I meant to see something different when ive chilled the wort and transferred it to the fermenter? Extra gunk in the bottom of the kettle?
Cheers
Steve


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## razz (3/10/06)

G'day Steve, the particles in the whirlfloc (seaweed) have a negative electrical charge and attract the positively charged particles in the beer causing a better hot break.


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## Steve (3/10/06)

razz said:


> G'day Steve, the particles in the whirlfloc (seaweed) have a negative electrical charge and attract the positively charged particles in the beer causing a better hot break.




..but the hot break occurs at the beginning of the boil and we add whirlfloc in the last 15 mins? :huh:


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## dwarbi (3/10/06)

I use a half a tablespoon with about 10-15 left in the boil. I've used it for every one of my batches so I can't really say how well it works! Maybe when I repeat my latest DIPA recipe I'll leave it out...


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## WildebeestAttack (3/10/06)

The 'hot break' means when the proteins come togerther and drop out of the boiling wort, not when the boiling commences. This can take a little while to occur after the boiling commences. By adding the whirfloc, more of the proteins will clump together ('hot break').


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## Steve (3/10/06)

Righto - makes sense now  
Cheers
Steve


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## devo (3/10/06)

I always chuck 1 tab in during the last 5 minutes of my boil.


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## warrenlw63 (3/10/06)

Oi Devo!! Too much. :blink: 

I've found that 1/4 of a tab (crushed) in a 40 litre batch does the job really well. Being a tightarse that gives me satisfaction that my packet of tabs will last 20 brews as opposed to 5. :lol: 

I'll bet your beers are super clear though. B) 

Warren -


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## devo (3/10/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Oi Devo!! Too much. :blink:
> 
> I've found that 1/4 of a tab (crushed) in a 40 litre batch does the job really well. Being a tightarse that gives me satisfaction that my packet of tabs will last 20 brews as opposed to 5. :lol:
> 
> ...




Actually they do come out very clear. The reason I use a whole tab is that I used to only put in a 1/2 tab when doing 23lt batches so doulbled to amount when upscaling to 45lt. :blink:


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## Steve (9/10/06)

I racked my AG Kolsch yesterday that I mentioned earlier. I used half a tab of irish moss for the first time. I noticed whilst racking that the wort was so bloody clear. You could see the bottom of the fermenter with still half of the wort to be racked. Is this because of the Irish moss or the yeast i used? My wyeast kolsch starter didnt fire so I ended up using an emergency packet of SO4. Tasted bloody nice too.  
Cheers
Steve


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## Ross (9/10/06)

Steve said:


> I racked my AG Kolsch yesterday that I mentioned earlier. I used half a tab of irish moss for the first time. I noticed whilst racking that the wort was so bloody clear. You could see the bottom of the fermenter with still half of the wort to be racked. Is this because of the Irish moss or the yeast i used? My wyeast kolsch starter didnt fire so I ended up using an emergency packet of SO4. Tasted bloody nice too.
> Cheers
> Steve



That's SO4 for you Steve - clears really bright very quickly after ferment finishes & forms a nice compact yeast cake.

cheers Ross


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## quincy (9/10/06)

After reading this thread, I used Irish Moss for the first time last Saturday on an AG Kolsch.

When draining the kettle (after whirlpooling), the first runnings had some break material. After a litre or two, it was crystal clear until the last few litres where the break became evident again.

My question - will the irish moss continue to do it's thing in the fermenter with the break ending up in the trub?

Thanks in advance

Q


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## razz (9/10/06)

Hey Q. I think you will find that everything that needs to floc out has done so in the kettle. Any thing that carries over to the fermenter will drop out with the yeast sediment.


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## Jye (1/1/08)

I forgot to add half a tab of whirlfloc to the brew today and it was very noticeable going into the fermenter. Normally it runs clear and there are chucks of break material in the bottom of the kettle, but this was very cloudy and no break in the kettle. Ill have no way of telling if it effects the final clarity since its a weizenbock but the effect in the kettle is huge.


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## Batz (1/1/08)

Batz


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## oldbugman (1/1/08)

Imagine your wheat beer doesnt have good clarity...


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## Jye (1/1/08)

Not worried, just reporting what I found.


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## Batz (1/1/08)

Jye said:


> Ill have no way of telling if it effects the final clarity since its a weizenbock




Who cares Jye,surely you won't drink that stuff  

Batz


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