# Mmm....Is the Gov starting to crackdown on distilling ?



## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

From another forum..

Hi all

I know some of you are into the distillation of alcohol and like to discuss your ideas. The ATO & AFP etc are now beginning to look more closely at stores that sell stills and at sites that allow such discussion. I know this because my wife works at a brew store and they have had several contacts lately regarding the sale of stills and changes to the conditions by which they can be sold. One these is that a licence will soon be required to purchase a still. As such I am requesting that no further discussion take place on HBDU involving such matters.

Hopefully you will honour my request. Those that that don't may find their account here being closed.

Thanks

Simon


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## sp0rk (27/6/15)

Yeah, my LHBS was telling me yesterday he got a call asking about the "condensation units" he sells
Just when I thought we were on the road to legalizing home distillation :/


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## booargy (27/6/15)

Delete


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## panzerd18 (27/6/15)

Is this a relation to the deaths in India recently related to bad spirits?


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

booargy said:


> Delete


Why...?


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

panzerd18 said:


> Is this a relation to the deaths in India recently related to bad spirits?


I would say it has more to do with illegal production of spirits...

It always has been illegal and the Gov just turned a blind eye


Not anymore it would seem


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## panzerd18 (27/6/15)

But what has made then turn a blind eye for so long and all of a sudden it's in the spotlight? I'm asking if the deaths in india were a contributing factor, or did this crackdown occur before that event?


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

panzerd18 said:


> But what has made then turn a blind eye for so long and all of a sudden it's in the spotlight? I'm asking if the deaths in india were a contributing factor, or did this crackdown occur before that event?


Who knows how our beloved current Gov works.

I didnt actually know anything about what happened in India untill you mentioned it

Could home brew now also come under the spotlight..


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## Bribie G (27/6/15)

When a country sinks into fascist dictatorship, tighter and tighter controls begin to be applied to the population. Look out for compulsory ID cards, travel permissions etc.


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## jlm (27/6/15)

Clearly the next step........


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## DU99 (27/6/15)

Gee there goes my eucalyptus oil


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## mwd (27/6/15)

Busy little buggers this government also cracking down on torrent downloading and the 'Bruce Jihadists' Book your one way first class seat to Damascus and good riddance. 

Cannot see a problem with distilling as long as you don't sell onward or kill the neighbours and friends. Probably more illegal stills in Saudi Arabia pint of Sid and coke boys.


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## booargy (27/6/15)

The numbers will answer the question.
If there are 10000 people making 1 carton of beer a week at $25 a pop that is $250000 a week. $13000000 a year. $1.3m gst.
If 10000 people make 1 bottle per week at $35 that is $350000 a week. That is $18200000 a year. $1.82m get.
If you pay $1m in brothel fees, bottles of wine ,pens, airfares, the return could be massive. A high profile lawyer has recently explained it.


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## NewtownClown (27/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Who knows how our beloved current Gov works.
> 
> I didnt actually know anything about what happened in India untill you mentioned it
> 
> Could home brew now also come under the spotlight..


It is simple, really; it is all about the MONEY!
Government income from excise is down with the decline in sales of beer and spirits. Wine continues to grow but the government gives that industry a lot in tax breaks and excise rebates. The excise is calculated per litre of alcohol, with beer getting the first 1.15% excise free, so spirits are a good source of income. Make it at home and the government misses the potential revenue.
With a few deaths over the last five years, you can add the pressure of health related interest groups to the pressure from the spirits industry's lobbyists and the government has to act (or lose party "donations" and other support) and they have a ready excuse(s) to do so - income and health and safety.

Home brewed beer comes under the spotlight regularly. A senator from S.A. is the most recent to raise the issue, and it was all about excise. He wanted a "tax" to be applied to home brew equipment and ingredients to make up for the loss in excise income. No government wants to create a new tax and the cost of compliance and collection were calculated to be greater than any benefit would be


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

NewtownClown said:


> pressure from the spirits industry's lobbyists and the government has to act *(or lose party "donations" and other suppor*t) and they have a ready excuse(s) to do so - income and health and safety.


Large business lobying the Government...................you cant be serious..its US the voters that the Governemnt has it best interests in..... :lol:


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## Pogierob (27/6/15)

NewtownClown said:


> Home brewed beer comes under the spotlight regularly. A senator from S.A. is the most recent to raise the issue, and it was all about excise. He wanted a "tax" to be applied to home brew equipment and ingredients to make up for the loss in excise income. No government wants to create a new tax and the cost of compliance and collection were calculated to be greater than any benefit would be


If this was to happen, we would all become very good at malting our own grain that we bought for our "daughters pony" and our backyards would become very full of a certain type of plant.

although I believe this will always be the case where it is too hard to police, therefore making it non-profitable for the government in the long run to crack down.


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## panzerd18 (27/6/15)

Rob.P said:


> If this was to happen, we would all become very good at malting our own grain that we bought for our "daughters pony" and our backyards would become very full of a certain type of plant.
> 
> although I believe this will always be the case where it is too hard to police, therefore making it non-profitable for the government in the long run to crack down.


How many people would malt their own grain and could grow their own hops? Not many I would imagine. Homebrewing would be mostly killed off.


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## mattfos01 (27/6/15)

Cost benefit people. The excise missed out on is not worth the effort. ATO and other Commonwealth law enforcement are probably too busy with other stuff to worry about backyard stills or homebrew beer. Priorities dictate resources. I am more surprised about a lack of attention re 'essential oil' distillation..


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

Mattfos01 said:


> Cost benefit people. The excise missed out on is not worth the effort. ATO and other Commonwealth law enforcement are probably too busy with other stuff to worry about backyard stills or homebrew beer. Priorities dictate resources. I am more surprised about a lack of attention re 'essential oil' distillation..


They would rather spend money on union witch hunts and inquiries into the ABC....


And $250m for priests in schools....


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## DU99 (27/6/15)

excise and gst..on booze

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-05/hinkler-mp-calls-for-fairer-alcohol-tax/6524284


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## wobbly (27/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> They would rather spend money on union witch hunts and inquiries into the ABC....


And so they should that and the ISIL shit that is going on in France and other places


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

You dont like Unions or the ABC.....


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## wide eyed and legless (27/6/15)

I don't, and you can throw the Age Newspaper into that mix too.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

Well next time you take annual leave, sick pay, get award wages, a 5 day working week etc...

I am pretty sure you are not about to give those up....


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## SBOB (27/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Well next time you take annual leave, sick pay, get award wages, a 5 day working week etc...


be thankful that back in the 20's-60's, unionised work forces gained these and then they became state/country mandated laws 

And you're assuming if unions disappeared tomorrow those working conditions would instantly be eroded? (considering the vast majority of employed people in this country aren't part of a union.. its somewhere around what, 20%?)


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

SBOB said:


> be thankful that back in the 20's-60's, unionised work forces gained these and then they became state/country mandated laws
> 
> And you're assuming if unions disappeared tomorrow those working conditions would instantly be eroded? (considering the vast majority of employed people in this country aren't part of a union.. its somewhere around what, 20%?)


They would not be "insatntly erroded".....but they will be...

If the LNP get their way...it will happen...they are already trying it on....


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## Steve (27/6/15)

Interesting. I received a blanket (i.e. not addressed to anyone in particular) email from the ATO the other day at work regarding the possible manufacture, selling and ownership of distilling equipment. Telling the dos and donts etc. It was marked as possible spam so I deleted it.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't, and you can throw the Age Newspaper into that mix too.


We have a gem of a paper in NSW called " The Daily Telegraph "....its a ******* ripper of a news paper...


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## wide eyed and legless (27/6/15)

I take care of myself, and I can do it far better than any union could ever do.


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## JDW81 (27/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> We have a gem of a paper in NSW called " The Daily Telegraph "....its a ******* ripper of a news paper...


Great paper the Tele (as is the courier mail and the herald sun). Always well researched and factually based articles and never inflammatory. I especially like what Andrew Bolt has to say, such a reasonable and measured commentator who is always on the side of Team Australia, unlike the lefty lynch mob from the ABC.

P.S. I love how the conservatives, the usual bastions of free speech, are deriding the ABC for allowing someone to express that same freedom they supposedly hold so dearly. 

Fire away.


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## Goose (27/6/15)

I like to purify my own water.


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## manticle (27/6/15)

wobbly said:


> And so they should that and the ISIL shit that is going on in France and other places


One could reasonably enquire what ISIL or France has to do with the discussion.
I know Stu was marginally tangential with some of his references but how did we end up in France? Islamic State? That doesn't have the faintest bit of relevance.

To all : the illegality of distillation in AU is well known by most here which is one reason why discussion of technical aspects is discouraged from an official perspective. This discussion is mostly about political climate in regards to illegal distillation - plese keep it that way and maybe the thread won't get locked (no promises - discussion with other mods may see closure anyway).


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## oglennyboy (27/6/15)

Homebrewing doesn't fly as far under the radar as you might think.
The BasicsCard income management system for welfare recipients (first rolled out as a way of dealing with the societal epidemic of unacceptable widespread and rife poor behaviour...wait, sarcasm or parody, I can never tell...) is being applied to other people and not just remote blackfella communities. On the extensive list of contraband are "home-brew kits and home-brew concentrate".
Now it's easy to say "Yeah, and why should dead shits, druggies and drongos who I hafta support with my taxes get blah blah blah..." but take the view that really this is nothing but the thin edge of the wedge applicable to ALL recipients of Gov monies. Did you really put all your Part A Family rebate into 'The Family", or has a little bled off into "ancillary personal benefits". Naughty you.
Now I freely admit to still being on a bender following the Mighty Tigers famous victory last night, and can be a little ranty. But these fkrs in Gov, of both stripes, just can't help but stick their fingers into society and tinker & tweak till it looks & smells acceptable to them.
Now if you'll excuse me...


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## Bridges (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I take care of myself, and I can do it far better than any union could ever do.


Not everyone is as awesome as you are though. Ever thought maybe you'd like to help workers who are not in a position to look after themselves. Hence unions. Sometimes life is about thinking about others. It's the most vulnerable members of our society that need the most help.


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## wide eyed and legless (27/6/15)

You don't have to be awesome to make and achieve your own goals, same as the executives of the unions you will not see any redundancies there, you think they care how many workers get made redundant, course not, you keep paying your union fees keep them in a job with a nice lucrative salary.


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## MartinOC (27/6/15)

Bridges said:


> Not everyone is as awesome as you are though. Ever thought maybe you'd like to help workers who are not in a position to look after themselves. Hence unions. Sometimes life is about thinking about others. It's the most vulnerable members of our society that need the most help.


 :icon_offtopic: Bridges, I spent a 20+ year career in Worker's Compensation, looking after injured workers & making sure they were getting everything they were entitled-to, whilst supporting them as they got themselves back to work. Guess where I got the BIGGEST resistance to all of my efforts? Yep! ******* UNIONS!!

Go figure.....


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You don't have to be awesome to make and achieve your own goals, same as the executives of the unions you will not see any redundancies there, you think they care how many workers get made redundant, course not, you keep paying your union fees keep them in a job with a nice lucrative salary.


But you still reap the benefits of what the union gained for us in this modern age...dont you....and you know you do


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

manticle said:


> I know Stu was marginally tangential with some of his references


I am so going to quote you on that....lots


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## Elz (27/6/15)

Love my 8 hour days and dont want the gove-ment tellin me what I can brew! LNP ( and the ALP) alrady eroding my rights with the WWW. Go the Greens! At least they wanna protect the worker.


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## wobbly (27/6/15)

manticle said:


> I know Stu was *marginally tangential *with some of his references but how did we end up in France? Islamic State? That doesn't have the faintest bit of relevance.


Now there's an understatement for you!!!! 

The jump to the what ISIL have claimed to be responsible for in France is no bigger jump than the original poster change and referencing unions, the ABC and funding priest in schools as a government priority

My reference was in support of the *governments priorities *in getting to the bottom of union corruption, the irresponsible management of the ABC and the focus on all forms of terrorism both in Australia and abroard

I'm with WEAL and I have managed my own affairs all my working life (and now retirement) without any interference from unions


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

Stills and distillation of alcohol Distillation of alcohol
It is illegal to use a still (of any capacity) to distil alcohol, for example spirits, without an excise manufacturer licence. However you can produce beer or wine for personal use.
The penalties for manufacturing spirits without an excise manufacturer licence are:

up to two years in prison
up to $85,000 or more, or five times the amount of excise duty on the alcohol you have manufactured.
To be granted an excise manufacturer licence we must be satisfied that this is appropriate in all the circumstances, for example security of your premises, and that you will pay the correct amount of excise duty when required.
Excise duty is payable on *all *alcohol you distil, whether you have a licence to produce it or not. This includes alcohol you distil for personal use.
For more information see:

Applying for an excise licence
Excise rates
Stills
To distil alcohol you must hold an excise manufacturer licence, regardless of the size or capacity of the still. If you do not have an excise licence you will need to obtain permission from us for a still over five litres capacity.
You can own a still of five litres or less without permission but only if you are not using it to distil alcohol.
If you are not a licensed excise manufacturer, you must have permission from us to do any of the following with a still over five litre capacity:

manufacture the still
move or set up the still, for example at your home or commercial premises
sell or buy the still, for example by a private sale, online
import the still
have possession, custody or control of the still.
The capacity refers to the volume of liquid that the still is capable of holding.
Penalties may apply if you do not have the appropriate permission for a still. The penalties are up to $8,500.
*Table 1: Do you need permission for a still?*
Example

*The still is 5 litres and under*

No you don’t need permission, however to use the still to distil alcohol you must have an excise manufacturer licence
Yes, you need to apply for permission from the ATO to buy a still over 5 litres, and you must have an excise manufacturer licence

*I was given a still*

No, you don’t need permission, however if it will be used to distil alcohol you must have an excise manufacturer licence
Yes, you need to apply for permission from the ATO to obtain a still over 5 litres, and you must have an excise manufacturer licence if you plan to distil alcohol

*I want to sell, import or manufacture still*s

No, you don’t need permission, however to use the still to distil alcohol you must have an excise manufacturer licence
Yes, you need to apply to the ATO for permission for the still you are selling, importing or manufacturing is over 5 lires

*I want to buy a still to distil essential oils or water*

No, you don’t need permission from the ATO to buy the still
Yes, you need to apply to the ATO for permission to buy the still if its over 5 litres

*I hold an excise manufacturer licence*

No, you don’t need to apply for permission. You must make sure your licence covers distillation.
No, you don’t need to apply for permission, but you must make sure your licence covers distillation.

*Get it done*

Application for permission – still


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

wobbly said:


> the irresponsible management of the ABC


I really want hear about this...It had better be good. Andrew Bolt good


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## panzerd18 (27/6/15)

In a perfect world, the government would serve the people who employ them...


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## wide eyed and legless (27/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But you still reap the benefits of what the union gained for us in this modern age...dont you....and you know you do


I will admit there was a time and place for unions, a long time ago, but not now, each time wages go up jobs are lost, I have never been interested in working for someone else, and I have worked hard, 7 days a week, no holidays and long hours, mostly overseas.
Now I can relax and spend what time I have left with my wife and daughters.


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## manticle (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You don't have to be awesome to make and achieve your own goals


 No you just have to be able bodied, have some kind of privilege of opportunity and not a massive amount of responsibility for someone else.
I absolutely agree that those who can, should do (and I always have) but there are some who can't.

Yes wobbly it is a massive jump. I'm surprised you could defend such an extremely long bow and keep a straight face


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I will admit there was a time and place for unions, a long time ago, but not now, each time wages go up jobs are lost,


Do you charge more now than you did 2 yrs ago....Are you still going to charge the same in another 2-3 yrs as you do now...

Its not just a Union issue.....


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/6/15)

manticle said:


> Yes wobbly it is a massive jump. I'm surprised you could defend such an extremely long bow and keep a straight face


Maybe ISIL are making stills and selling them to our children.....


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## jyo (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't, and you can throw the Age Newspaper into that mix too.


Then I take it you don't accept any of the rights and privileges that unions have fought for.


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## Danscraftbeer (27/6/15)

Remember. Your all being monitored and recorded!
You're all going to be round up and hung.


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## panzerd18 (27/6/15)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Remember. Your all being monitored and recorded!
> You're all going to be round up and hung.


Thats ok, I'm going to run for it across the boarder and hope the boarder guard doesn't catch me and put me in prision. 

Welcome to the Prision State.


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## manticle (27/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Maybe ISIL are making stills and selling them to our children.....


Well drinking too much spirits may lead to the development of Delerium Tremens or DTs for short.
Take away a D and a T from DISTIL and what's left? Could have uncracked a major conspiracy.


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## MastersBrewery (27/6/15)

manticle said:


> Well drinking too much spirits may lead to the development of Delerium Tremens or DTs for short.
> Take away a D and a T from DISTIL and what's left? Could have uncracked a major conspiracy.


Another one for the X Files h34r:

I believe all here are familiar with the concept of a DOS attack, what I don't understand is why every tom dick and harry in the country, using a still, selling a still or even thinking about how a still would be another step in their 'brewing' journey all apply, lets face it, the place would stop. As others have said; on the whole the legislation is purely a revenue raising. Stop the place make it cost them money.


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## lmccrone (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You don't have to be awesome to make and achieve your own goals, same as the executives of the unions you will not see any redundancies there, you think they care how many workers get made redundant, course not, you keep paying your union fees keep them in a job with a nice lucrative salary.


i work at a union and our communications bloke got made redundant last week, we also had four organisers made redundant about 18 months ago. Slowing economy, no ones immune


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## Danscraftbeer (27/6/15)

Push and shove. Press on the people and see how they respond.
Best for the people and continue the entire knowledge evolution in my opinion is home made food and beverage and the knowhow to do it all!


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## spog (27/6/15)

NewtownClown said:


> It is simple, really; it is all about the MONEY!
> Government income from excise is down with the decline in sales of beer and spirits. Wine continues to grow but the government gives that industry a lot in tax breaks and excise rebates. The excise is calculated per litre of alcohol, with beer getting the first 1.15% excise free, so spirits are a good source of income. Make it at home and the government misses the potential revenue.
> With a few deaths over the last five years, you can add the pressure of health related interest groups to the pressure from the spirits industry's lobbyists and the government has to act (or lose party "donations" and other support) and they have a ready excuse(s) to do so - income and health and safety.
> 
> ...


Being a South Australian myself, I and any fellow S A resident knows for a fact the our incompetent,,,err I mean elected government DO NOT introduce new taxes.
Thet are called a LEVY.
We are all some much better for it and of course are more than happy to pay.
Gives us all a nice warm cozy feeling.
True bullshit I kid you not.


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## Tony (27/6/15)

panzerd18 said:


> But what has made then turn a blind eye for so long and all of a sudden it's in the spotlight?


TAX


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## spog (27/6/15)

Just finished reading all posts,gotta love this site,all areas covered in one topic.
Distilling,ISIS,priests,unions,goverment and apparently someone about to be hung or is " hung". .

And tax.


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## Bribie G (27/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I take care of myself, and I can do it far better than any union could ever do.


You must be really tired building all those roads and bridges for yourself, not to mention water and electricity networks and Army bases.


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## Curly79 (27/6/15)

This has absolutely nothing to do with distilling but.....



See all those little yellow squares?..... They are called RDOs. They are paid for by taking 4 hours a week out of my pay and they are the greatest things ever invented! Without the union they wouldn't be there. Along with a hell of a lot of other things!


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## Bribie G (27/6/15)

Leave it to the experts, they have a perfect playbook to follow


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## Black Devil Dog (28/6/15)

Bridges said:


> Not everyone is as awesome as you are though. Ever thought maybe you'd like to help workers who are not in a position to look after themselves. Hence unions. Sometimes life is about thinking about others. It's the most vulnerable members of our society that need the most help.


I'm self employed and I've bent over backwards to help someone get himself out of the mess that he's created and he's let me down so many times.

I picked him up in the morning and dropped him off at the end of the day.

Rang him the other day to make sure was good to work.

Because of his dire situation, he asked if I could pay him cash. Being the soft hearted employer that I am, I said that I would this once, but that I couldn't do it again, he sent me a text the next morning to say he was stressing out and that he couldn't work. He's just missed out on some really good pay and I'll never offer him anything ever again. The bloke is a bankrupt, fucked up, dumb ****.

The unions aren't the only ones trying to help people.


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## Camo6 (28/6/15)

I was never interested in joining a union when working in the auto industry. Considering the size of the businesses I worked for and seeing the owners on a daily basis it would have felt like biting the hand that feeds me.
But I'm now in the building industry where unionism has helped standardise the industry and put everyone on a somewhat level playing field. I was happy to join the union considering they're the reason I get rdo's, income protection, long service leave rollover etc. Heck, I even worked a night shift the other week and got paid to sleep the following day.
Unions are awesome...when you belong to one!


(Spelling)


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## wide eyed and legless (28/6/15)

There are some people you can't help, and a lot of those people who you do try to help if something goes wrong you are the first they will blame



jyo said:


> Then I take it you don't accept any of the rights and privileges that unions have fought for.


Not personally, if I didn't work I didn't get paid, if I was sick, I didn't get paid, if I wanted a holiday, I didn't get paid, I am personally responsible for my own super, I never got RDO's. I got paid on achievement, and the rewards are high. As for my employees they got the benefit of what the unions had negotiated plus more.



Bribie G said:


> Leave it to the experts, they have a perfect playbook to follow


It didn't get Adolf Hitler very far, in fact if he hadn't changed his name he wouldn't have even got started, Heil Schicklgruber, just doesn't have the right ring to it.
Plus who would take notice of the writings of a madman.



lmccrone said:


> i work at a union and our communications bloke got made redundant last week, we also had four organisers made redundant about 18 months ago. Slowing economy, no ones immune


Could be part of the problem, a slowing economy, that and the fact there are not as many members to keep the coffers filled, which is hardly surprising when there is the bad publicity of union leaders involving intimidation, coercion, violence and procuring prostitutes.


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## hellbent (28/6/15)

In my younger days I once worked in a factory where I was wrongly sacked for something I had no control over, I went and seen the shop steward asking about help from the union in getting my job back, he said there isn't much he could do in a "single issue" such as mine. Apparently taking my fees was ok but when I needed help all I got was "sorry mate". After that I started my own business and made my own dealings, now after reading lately of the way some high up people in the union are rorting and spending the money I'm glad I never had to join a union again.


Edit: Spelling


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Plus who would take notice of the writings of a madman.


Plenty of people read The Daily Telegraph...and the columists who write in it

Tony Abbott once famously said that you have to believe what he writes...not what he says


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## wide eyed and legless (28/6/15)

Bribie G said:


> You must be really tired building all those roads and bridges for yourself, not to mention water and electricity networks and Army bases.


Taxes at work Bribie, taxes at work


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## TheWiggman (28/6/15)

Maybe change title of the thread to "Unions and their role in industrialisation"?
Or on topic...
Biggest drama with distilling is Stu's post earlier. It's legal under certain circumstances, but well in the too hard basket for most Aussies. And it's fair to say that a lot of people do it illegally (I know a handful). It's one of those stupid areas though where it's legal to sell the tools to carry out an activity most often done illegally. 
Can the 'government' (or whoever's making the phone calls) take products off shelves on this basis? 
The net result won't achieve much. People purchasing these items legally will be hindered, retailers make less money, and people doing illegal distilling will still get hold of sugar and yeast and won't be rushing to the bottleshops paying big taxes. I think if the government is serious about this they would be targeting individuals rather than companies because unlit matey they're the ones breaking the law. The retailer might be enabling it, but I don't know that there's anything legally putting them in the wrong. Are they required to ask for a licence before selling a still? Or yeast?
Bigger fish to fry in my opinion, so they're taking the easy option which is hardly surprising.


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## zarniwoop (28/6/15)

I do so love these topics, people are so keen to announce their own capacity to look after themselves without the assistance of anyone else, the funny thing is the people that always seem to support this attitude are normally always in a good financial position or are on the way up to this with everything looking rosy. I haven't found too many conservatives pushing these views living in poverty.

Then again there's always this guy:


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## Grott (28/6/15)

I think a lot of distillers are their own worst enemy. In my experience most distillers tend to do extra for selling and profit purposes above their own requirements. I wonder if this has any reflection on store sales thus some of the concerns.
Cheers


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/6/15)

The problem is that a still is relatively easy to make. You just need a ******, some *****...with a bit of *****.

You can make one a hell of a lot cheaper than you can buy one. And most people I know that do distill made their own


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## Maheel (28/6/15)

grott said:


> I think a lot of distillers are their own worst enemy. In my experience most distillers tend to do extra for selling and profit purposes above their own requirements. I wonder if this has any reflection on store sales thus some of the concerns.
> Cheers


that BS right there

many i know have never sold, they may give some away but asking for money is a quick way of getting in the shit with the cops etc...

they are going to have to put a cop at every supermarket and plumbing shop to control distilling.... all you need is sold there
you dont have to set foot in a HBS to (and i suggest you avoid HBS shops for equipment anyway) to gather the best ingredients and equip.

over the last 20 years just like homebrewing we have far better equipment and knowledge than before, internet and like minded people have improved it in fantastic ways


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## manticle (28/6/15)

manticle said:


> Yes wobbly it is a massive jump. I'm surprised you could defend such an extremely long bow and keep a straight face


That said and in the interests of balance, I can't really see the introduction of Adolf as especially relevant to the issue of government purportedly cracking down on something that's already illegal. I'm not that smart sometimes though.


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## jlm (28/6/15)

First they came for the home distillers, and I did not speak out- Because their product is mostly shit.

Then they came for the home brewers, and I did not speak out- Because I don't brew much anymore and their product is mostly shit.

Then they......Well, then I moved to NZ. Legal home brewing and distilling. Awesome beer from the micros (and the big brewers craft lines). Deer everywhere. Rabbits everywhere. Giant kingfish. Giant trout. Live greenlip mussels in the supermarket at $5 a kilo. Its full of Kiwi's but thats the only bad side to the place I found.


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## Grott (28/6/15)

Maheel said:


> that BS right there


Do you say BS to everybody that has experiences different to yours? Have some respect for what other people have to say.


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/6/15)

Maheel said:


> that BS right there


Actually its not.

There have been recent cases where people have been arrested for selling illegal spirits....to kids FFS ( that was actually in Coffs Harbour )

I know of a person here that sells it for about $20 a bottle


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## Goose (28/6/15)

> they are going to have to put a cop at every supermarket and plumbing shop to control distilling.... all you need is sold there


are you saying that cops don't make their own booze ? :lol:


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## lukec (28/6/15)

incolink income protection is like a cock flavored lollipop. Useless
How do I know you ask.
I've just been knocked back for it after tearing my ACL and requiring surgery and 4 months of work. 
Read fine fine print. If you are basically doing anything you are not covered. The only way to get paid out is by saying " I slipped on the front stairs ".
Unions are awesome, until you need their help.




Camo6 said:


> I was never interested in joining a union when working in the auto industry. Considering the size of the businesses I worked for and seeing the owners on a daily basis it would have felt like biting the hand that feeds me.
> But I'm now in the building industry where unionism has helped standardise the industry and put everyone on a somewhat level playing field. I was happy to join the union considering they're the reason I get rdo's, income protection, long service leave rollover etc. Heck, I even worked a night shift the other week and got paid to sleep the following day.
> Unions are awesome...when you belong to one!
> (Spelling)


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## Goose (28/6/15)

Gotta love this union debate.

I can somewhat understand the need for unions in the protection of workers against exploitation by big business in localised economies, but we live in a global world now.

If you down tools because the union tells you to, some much poorer Chinese or Bangladeshi worker will happily put their hand up and that's where the business will eventually go.

It seems to me that manufacturing is dying in Australia, in part because the unions are trying to hold on to the good old days. The expression "cut of your nose despite your face" springs to mind.

Come and get me fellas...


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/6/15)

Its not the unions that are causing manufacturing to die in Australia....Unions have actaully tried to help business's stay afloat by taking pay cuts etc


If you wanted something made and it cost $100 to get made here and $10 to be made in China....what would you do


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## Goose (28/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Its not the unions that are causing manufacturing to die in Australia....Unions have actaully tried to help business's stay afloat by taking pay cuts etc



I said "in part" meaning they are a deterrent to investment.



> If you wanted something made and it cost $100 to get made here and $10 to be made in China....what would you do


Depends if I was getting extra 90 bux in quality / value.


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## seamad (28/6/15)

We won't need unions ( and workers) in Australia for long, under the new FTA with China any Chinese funded projects over $150 million can bring in their own labour, and they don't need to meet Australian standards... Here's a litle bit of info








Can't wait for the royal commission into electrocution deaths.


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## booargy (28/6/15)

So does this mean that my trials with a closed boiler and a vapor trap so I can do a boil inside without having to worry about getting the steam outside is a no go?


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## Camo6 (28/6/15)

lukec said:


> incolink income protection is like a cock flavored lollipop. Useless
> How do I know you ask.
> I've just been knocked back for it after tearing my ACL and requiring surgery and 4 months of work.
> Read fine fine print. If you are basically doing anything you are not covered. The only way to get paid out is by saying " I slipped on the front stairs ".
> Unions are awesome, until you need their help.


Damn. That sucks. Can't say I know much about it. Didn't even know I was entitled to it until the card arrived in the mail.
We're with a different mob and was chatting to a retired sparkie about it who had needed it on more than one occasion and was still paid out the considerable balance when he left the job. Only thing he said was don't let them know if it was a sports related injury. All I know is I'm so much better off in this trade than my last so happy to pay the dues if that's all it costs me.

Annnnnd back to the topic of distillation. Hold on. Wasn't there a rule about that somewhere?


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/6/15)

Camo6 said:


> Annnnnd back to the topic of distillation. Hold on. Wasn't there a rule about that somewhere?


This is a discussion about the regulation and what the gov has planned

We are not talking about how to distill, just the changes possibly being made that could have wider affects on our hobby of brewing.

The mods would have ended it at page 1 post no 3 if it breached the rules


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## warra48 (28/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> This is a discussion about the regulation and what the gov has planned
> 
> We are not talking about how to distill, just the changes possibly being made that could have wider affects on our hobby of brewing.
> 
> The mods would have ended it at page 1 post no 3 if it breached the rules


Correct.


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## Camo6 (28/6/15)

Only tongue it cheek Stu. I couldn't give a rat's toss what gets discussed.

I've got no doubt it's a Government move to reduce the loss of taxes from unlicensed sales more so than to reduce deaths from alcohol poisoning.

Wasn't it only a few years ago they banned the sale of smoking paraphernalia? Did they ban the hookah? I know of a few middle eastern folk who like to smoke flavoured tobacco. Wonder if they need a permit to buy one nowadays?


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/6/15)

Camo6 said:


> Wasn't it only a few years ago they banned the sale of smoking paraphernalia? Did they ban the hookah? I know of a few middle eastern folk who like to smoke flavoured tobacco. Wonder if they need a permit to buy one nowadays?


A Hookah is legal, but illegal if used to illicit drugs

A Waterpipe ( Bong ) is illegal

A Hookah is a form of waterpipe...

Basically if its a proper Hookah and your not smoking illegal drugs in it your ok

Its a bit like homebrew. Legal if you only brew it for yourself and dont supply others or trade it


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## Goose (28/6/15)

> come and get me fellas..


you don't get me.....


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## wide eyed and legless (28/6/15)

Getting back on topic, I would doubt very much that the ATO would be making calls about still sales, I would say that if any government department was interested in still sales it would be Customs and Excise. 
Just recently the government announced they were going to crack down on the sellers of "Chop Chop' as the government claims to be losing billions to the illegal tobacco trade now that is a path worth pursuing, not what a few of us homebrewers are doing and what paltry sum they could get from us, I know I wouldn't, be losing any sleep over it, and I am sure Tony wouldn't.


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## brendo (28/6/15)

Excise is covered by the ATO... Not customs. If you want to store alcohol in a bonded store to avoid paying excise until release to market, it is considered a customs site - but all reporting/admin is still via the ATO. 

So.... If anyone is making calls, the ATO/AFP would make sense.


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## spog (28/6/15)

Makes sense to me, a call from the ATO ?( damned certain they don't ) I was under the impression that the ATO don't ring people they send a letter or contact your accountant.
Customs and Excise would be the ones knocking on doors etc but I can't imagine them ringing people or businesses . Surely the would front up in person and introduce the department and themselves .

I was replying to WEAL,s post.


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## wide eyed and legless (28/6/15)

Stand corrected rules changed 2010, the ATO will phone spog I had them phone me a couple of times and was once threatened over the phone that I was going to be audited, after a sleepless night I phoned the same employee who had threatened me and told him that I would welcome an audit, that way the auditors could show me where if anywhere I was doing anything wrong. Never did get audited.


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## spog (28/6/15)

I mentioned the ATO and phone calls due to a story on the radio a couple of months ago which was about scams.
People ringing and saying they were from the ATO etc and getting people's account details and so on.
But thinking a bit more about it it may have been Emails not phone calls,anyway no probs .


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## Maheel (28/6/15)

i got a text from them (ATO) about 2 weeks back about some PAYG $$ i owe them from years ago...

sadly i could not reply (it would not let me)

but i guess i would have offended someone with my reply....

when i did ring they cannot tell me really what it is for, what the numbers owing are and much info about the issue.
I gave up and said they should not worry about it as i wasn't going to worry about it 

GOV may be getting desperate for $$ and are getting ATO to go back over old outstandings


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## sp0rk (30/6/15)

What a bunch of complete fearmongering propaganda drivel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDh9IAQGfEs

Distillers in the US are pushing forward and making ground on legal home distillation and we're going backwards (as is with everything else)


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## earle (30/6/15)

Couldn't be bothered watching the video but other information on the ATO website suggests that excise is payable even if you don't have an excise license and are distilling illegally.

The ATO is right into data matching from all sorts of sources. If they could get there hands on a list of people with stills I wouldn't put it past them to match that against tax returns, centrelink data and bank account information to identify people who are potentially distilling and selling their product illegally. Even if those people were then shut down the ATO would swoop in with deemed assessments for excise, GST and income tax.

I can't see them being that interested in people who do it for their own consumption only. Cost versus benefit doesn't work in their favour.


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## pcmfisher (30/6/15)

Apparently all this was started because a bloke in Adelaide got sprung selling his moonshine out of the boot of his car in a pub car park.

The laws have not changed, it is just a question of whether they are going to police it, even if it is only to make an example of somebody.


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## wide eyed and legless (30/6/15)

seamad said:


> We won't need unions ( and workers) in Australia for long, under the new FTA with China any Chinese funded projects over $150 million can bring in their own labour, and they don't need to meet Australian standards... Here's a litle bit of info
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The way I read the application for visa 457 the company applying for the visa have to have exhausted their search for Australian or permanent resident workers before visa applications could be submitted, plus the applicant's nominated would still have to have a skills and English language assessment done.


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## Camo6 (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The way I read the application for visa 457 the company applying for the visa have to have exhausted their search for Australian or permanent resident workers before visa applications could be submitted, plus the applicant's nominated would still have to have a skills and English language assessment done.


Just like 70% of the plasterers in the commercial game atm...

The paranoid side of me suspects this could be a plot by the Gubberment to lower labour costs by introducing workers willing to work hard for less pay in an effort to bring the unions back under control. Tinfoil hat firmly seated.

Sorry, no more union talk.


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## seamad (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The way I read the application for visa 457 the company applying for the visa have to have exhausted their search for Australian or permanent resident workers before visa applications could be submitted, plus the applicant's nominated would still have to have a skills and English language assessment done.


No, that is not correct, As part of the agreement, China and Australia have signed a Memorandom of understanding on the topic of an “Investment Facilitation Arrangement” (IFA).
The IFA allows a project company registered in Australia but with 50% Chinese ownership to bring in Chinese workers for a proposed infrastructure development project. The development must be projected to involve capital expenditure of A$150 million over its term.
There is no requirement under the MOU for labour market testing. This means the project company will not need to prove that they are unable to source Australians to work on the project. There is no requirement to prove that there is a skill shortage or that the project company has had recruitment difficulties in enticing Australian workers. (This is different to the 457 Visa program, where employers are supposed to show they have tried and failed to find Australian workers for jobs, before hiring skilled foreign workers.)

No need to be paranoid camo, the government has just by passed the union movement altogether , big projects won't need any aussie workers, and the workers they bring in don't need to meet Aust. standards.


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## Dave70 (30/6/15)

Bring back WorkChoices..


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## hellbent (30/6/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I know of a person here that sells it for about $20 a bottle


same here... $25


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## wide eyed and legless (30/6/15)

What was posted previously Seamad was Ged Kearney's interpretation which is false, here is the latest from an MP posted 23 hours ago.

http://lukehowarth.com.au/the-facts-china-free-trade-agreement/


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## seamad (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What was posted previously Seamad was Ged Kearney's interpretation which is false, here is the latest from an MP posted 23 hours ago.
> 
> http://lukehowarth.com.au/the-facts-china-free-trade-agreement/


That's incorrect, the info comes from here: http://theconversation.com/factcheck-could-the-china-australia-fta-lock-out-australian-workers-43470


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## booargy (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What was posted previously Seamad was Ged Kearney's interpretation which is false, here is the latest from an MP posted 23 hours ago.
> 
> http://lukehowarth.com.au/the-facts-china-free-trade-agreement/


I studied acupressure massage and for part of the study I went and worked in a chinese TCM hospital. One of the germs that was in our group wanted to bring a practitioner back to Australia and charge $120 and pay him $20 I spat the dummy and had a go at him and a few others who thought it was a good idea. That practitioner did 20 massages a day and was brilliant at his job no one could compete with him in experience or ability. My massage teacher got rorted in the same way and he fucked the blokes business (unintentionally) who did it to him. It is a small industry here and it is going to be fucked over by cheap labor. 
A minority will gain the rest will lose out.


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## wide eyed and legless (30/6/15)

seamad said:


> That's incorrect, the info comes from here: http://theconversation.com/factcheck-could-the-china-australia-fta-lock-out-australian-workers-43470


The Conversation is a left wing propaganda site, Ged Kearney was being interviewed by an ABC journalist, the only way you can more left wing bullshit than that, is to get the interview reviewed by The Conversation. I would be more inclined to take more notice of a paper put out by a federal MP than what the ACTU wants us to believe.

booargy, anyone working here is entitled, and must be paid the same rate of pay as Australian workers.


----------



## AndrewQLD (30/6/15)

pcmfisher said:


> Apparently all this was started because a bloke in Adelaide got sprung selling his moonshine out of the boot of his car in a pub car park.
> 
> The laws have not changed, it is just a question of whether they are going to police it, even if it is only to make an example of somebody.


Actually I think this might have all flared up thanks to the idiots selling distilling gear openly and obviously on the internet and more importantly on ebay.
When small brew shops were quietly selling to local clientèle the exposure was minimal, however now that ebay sales and internet stores have become so common it is too obvious for the ato to turn a blind eye to.

As far as I know the only people to have received a letter or email are brew shops, online suppliers and ebay stores and not the general public.

Also I believe that a couple of stores in QLD were doing demonstrations of 30 lt stills in their stores, go figure.


----------



## seamad (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The Conversation is a left wing propaganda site, Ged Kearney was being interviewed by an ABC journalist, the only way you can more left wing bullshit than that, is to get the interview reviewed by The Conversation. I would be more inclined to take more notice of a paper put out by a federal MP than what the ACTU wants us to believe.
> 
> booargy, anyone working here is entitled, and must be paid the same rate of pay as Australian workers.


I'm happy for you that you have such trust in the lnp government.
Right/Left is a matter of perspective of course. I suspect when you look right politically there's nothing to your right, so naturally everything else is of course left wing bullshit. I don't find the conversation to be left at all. Maybe you should read this, it's certainly left (and very funny I think ) http://www.ellistabletalk.com/2015/06/29/the-fifty-six-worst-things-the-liberals-did-yesterday-284/
I will warn you though that your head may explode upon reading it, you have been warned.


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## booargy (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> booargy, anyone working here is entitled, and must be paid the same rate of pay as Australian workers.


All good in a perfect world but doesn't happen in reality.

AndrewQLD that makes sense there are some suppliers who are selling commercial sized gear and there is no restrictions yet.


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## Lincoln2 (30/6/15)

The government are there to serve me - I don't serve the government. I'm a citizen, I pay taxes so I'm entitled to tell those fuckers what to do; not the other way 'round. (I know this is partially wishful thinking.). I hurt no-one, I steal from no-one, I impose my beliefs on no-one, so the pollies can fu(k right off.


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## GABBA110360 (30/6/15)

Lincoln2 said:


> The government are there to serve me - I don't serve the government. I'm a citizen, I pay taxes so I'm entitled to tell those fuckers what to do; not the other way 'round. (I know this is partially wishful thinking.). I hurt no-one, I steal from no-one, I impose my beliefs on no-one, so the pollies can fu(k right off.


Kyogle I a place unto it self you will be safe lincoln


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## wide eyed and legless (30/6/15)

The first article by about Karen Nettleton's grand children I believe is not that far from the realms of reality, I am sure Julie Bishop would be, (I won't say happy) but relieved if a drone hit the target and eliminated the problem she has with the return of those children.


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## goomboogo (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What was posted previously Seamad was Ged Kearney's interpretation which is false, here is the latest from an MP posted 23 hours ago.
> 
> http://lukehowarth.com.au/the-facts-china-free-trade-agreement/


I admire your ability to be so trusting of our elected officials and business leaders.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/6/15)

Walk into a local HBS....Turbo yeast, stills, flavouring essence...


Nothing to see here.....move along


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/6/15)

Lincoln2 said:


> The government are there to serve me - I don't serve the government. I'm a citizen, I pay taxes so I'm entitled to tell those fuckers what to do; not the other way 'round. (I know this is partially wishful thinking.). I hurt no-one, I steal from no-one, I impose my beliefs on no-one, so the pollies can fu(k right off.


Isnt it sad in this day and age that people who started their career in their early 20's.....as politicians....and have been there for 20yrs...and are still there...


Is there something I am not seeing in this picture


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## wide eyed and legless (30/6/15)

goomboogo said:


> I admire your ability to be so trusting of our elected officials and business leaders.


Nothing to admire in that ability when it's a one horse race. :lol:


----------



## wide eyed and legless (30/6/15)

booargy said:


> All good in a perfect world but doesn't happen in reality.


You are not aware of Fair work Australia, even if an employee is not a permanent resident he is entitled to the same wages as an Aussie or Permanent resident.


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## booargy (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You are not aware of Fair work Australia, even if an employee is not a permanent resident he is entitled to the same wages as an Aussie or Permanent resident.


Yeah yeah 
You are not allowed to have a still so nobody must have one


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## goomboogo (30/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Nothing to admire in that ability when it's a one horse race. :lol:


It certainly is a one horse race when sovereign governments cede regulatory control through Investor State Disputes Settlement clauses in Free Trade Agreements. FTAs are anathema to democracy.


----------



## spog (1/7/15)

earle said:


> Couldn't be bothered watching the video but other information on the ATO website suggests that excise is payable even if you don't have an excise license and are distilling illegally.
> 
> The ATO is right into data matching from all sorts of sources. If they could get there hands on a list of people with stills I wouldn't put it past them to match that against tax returns, centrelink data and bank account information to identify people who are potentially distilling and selling their product illegally. Even if those people were then shut down the ATO would swoop in with deemed assessments for excise, GST and income tax.
> 
> I can't see them being that interested in people who do it for their own consumption only. Cost versus benefit doesn't work in their favour.


Data matching would be how they catch people , living beyond your means...gotcha.


----------



## Maheel (1/7/15)

spog said:


> Data matching would be how they catch people , living beyond your means...gotcha.



the rule goes if you get paid in cash you spend it as cash... no data to match then


----------



## manticle (1/7/15)

Unless you start discussing it on the internet in which case, anything goes.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/7/15)

I cant afford cash.


----------



## manticle (1/7/15)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4yH1v5-Jsg


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## Dave70 (2/7/15)

Good metaphor for the government. 
Rather take a bullet than give up the loot.


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## wide eyed and legless (2/7/15)

goomboogo said:


> FTAs are anathema to democracy.


FTA's are nothing to be worried about, if we all took a negative stance over every decision that we had to make in life we would still be swinging around in the trees.


----------



## seamad (2/7/15)

The Austalian Productivity Commission ( which I'm pretty sure isn't a lefty wing organisation ) has questioned the rush to FTAs, and the secrecy involved. From their website


Preferential trade agreements add to the complexity and cost of international trade through substantially different sets of rules of origin, varying coverage of services and potentially costly intellectual property protections and investor-state dispute settlement provisions.

The emerging and growing potential for trade preferences to impose net costs on the community presents a compelling case for the final text of an agreement to be rigorously analysed *before* signing. Analysis undertaken for the Japan-Australia agreement reveals a wide and concerning gap compared to the Commission's view of rigorous assessment.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/7/15)

For our part, we vote in a party to lead us, we have to put our trust in that party to do the right thing for Australia and its people, which is what I am sure they do, K Rudd was a more than willing participant to sign up to these agreements, so it is not a left or right matter (apart from Gillard). Do you not think that the government lawyers and economic experts have not checked everything out, and whatever agreements we sign it is the same for all signatories.


----------



## madpierre06 (2/7/15)

Depends on whether our esteemed leaders actually have our interests at heart, and who the 'our' actually is. My observation over the last 15 years or so has been that the higher up the financial food chain you are, the more likely you are to really benefit from the majority of these decisions made. Of all these great initiatives, agreements and benefits, I have yet to see one which benefits in any way the fella down the bottom. It's my belief that these days the primasry concern is making sure share prices (high end shares) and 'the economy' are the major beneficiary of such decisions, and Joe Blow down the bottom is flat out affording one share from a bank or big miner, let alone a whole bloody portfolio. And physical assets (houses in particular) have been moved slowly but surely out of the hands of the same Joe Blow and on up the food chain, and due to the proliferation in non-full time jobs with commensarate decline in full time jobs, he ain't ever gonna ****ing get another one. 

Still  , I haven't owned a water purifier in a long time so the current interest in such equipment isn't of real interest to me.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (2/7/15)

So have they made a decision on the legaity of selling stills yet....


----------



## mje1980 (2/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> For our part, we vote in a party to lead us, we have to put our trust in that party to do the right thing for Australia and its people, which is what I am sure they do, K Rudd was a more than willing participant to sign up to these agreements, so it is not a left or right matter (apart from Gillard). Do you not think that the government lawyers and economic experts have not checked everything out, and whatever agreements we sign it is the same for all signatories.


This post is missing something, about 10 Australian flags in the background maybe


----------



## dannymars (2/7/15)

I had a "targeted" youtube ad served up about this just last week... seems there probably is some kind of crack down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVOdBmKQz9A

Funny, I have a massive spirits collection, mainly due to the fact that I hardly drink it. However, the gov't has made sweet FA off me coz 90% of it is duty free haha.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/7/15)

madpierre06 said:


> Depends on whether our esteemed leaders actually have our interests at heart, and who the 'our' actually is. My observation over the last 15 years or so has been that the higher up the financial food chain you are, the more likely you are to really benefit from the majority of these decisions made. Of all these great initiatives, agreements and benefits, I have yet to see one which benefits in any way the fella down the bottom. It's my belief that these days the primasry concern is making sure share prices (high end shares) and 'the economy' are the major beneficiary of such decisions, and Joe Blow down the bottom is flat out affording one share from a bank or big miner, let alone a whole bloody portfolio. And physical assets (houses in particular) have been moved slowly but surely out of the hands of the same Joe Blow and on up the food chain, and due to the proliferation in non-full time jobs with commensarate decline in full time jobs, he ain't ever gonna ****ing get another one.
> 
> Still  , I haven't owned a water purifier in a long time so the current interest in such equipment isn't of real interest to me.


We have to look after the investors, otherwise no investment means no jobs, you have to look further than, 'what's in it for me'
A buoyant economy is important, investment coming into Australia is important, more investment equals more jobs, living with a negative outlook will keep Joe Blow down at the bottom. Investors take risks, the higher the risk the bigger the prize but failure is also means a big loss, its a chance the investor takes.
Beats hiding a shekel under a rock.


----------



## Bridges (2/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I take care of myself, and I can do it far better than any union could ever do.





wide eyed and legless said:


> you have to look further than, 'what's in it for me'


Exactly.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/7/15)

> Exactly.
> 
> Point being?


----------



## madpierre06 (2/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> We have to look after the investors, otherwise no investment means no jobs, you have to look further than, 'what's in it for me'
> A buoyant economy is important, investment coming into Australia is important, more investment equals more jobs, living with a negative outlook will keep Joe Blow down at the bottom. Investors take risks, the higher the risk the bigger the prize but failure is also means a big loss, its a chance the investor takes.
> Beats hiding a shekel under a rock.



There was a time when there were plenty of jobs, no investors required. Just people who started up a business and made a few dollars, they were able to employ people who then had reasonable disposable income, could buy a hbouse, go on holidays etc. Then thanks to the wonder of being included in a 'world market', whatever the heck that means, we get to see a lot of those businesses in specific areas of business type go under due to not being able to compete with overseas entities. Those same entities now wanting to invest here. You don't necessarily have to have a negative attitude to see what is happening in real terms to people who are simply having a tough enough time of it that barely surviving is as much as they can do each and every bloodyt day, let alone trying to find the energy to consider how they might improve their lot in life. Being shunted from casual job to casual job via labour agencies, then trying to keep their sanity and their family together under the pressure that is on them...I don't wonder that trying to claw themselves off the bottom is just a bit too much harder than they can handle on any given day. 

And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against those who do give it a go...but there are so many things now going on which make it so much bloody harder for someone to improve their lot in life. Trust me, I've ****ing been there and there are days when it is all you can do to simply make the decision to keep yourself alive.

And I agree with your statement regarding needing to look forward from "what's in it for me"....trouble is, so many govt. decisions actually have 'nothing in it for me' when you might reasonably expect a little something back given the amount of money they take off you.

I still find it astonishing the number of people who publicly out themselves, their stills, and how they are using them with no prudence whatsoever.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/7/15)

Sorry to hear of your woes madpierre, hope you can manage to land yourself a full time job sooner than later, keep your chin up.


----------



## Bridges (2/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> > Point being?


What I said earlier.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/7/15)

So does that mean your agreeing with me then?


----------



## sponge (2/7/15)

Like a cute, old married couple..


----------



## madpierre06 (2/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Sorry to hear of your woes madpierre, hope you can manage to land yourself a full time job sooner than later, keep your chin up.


Thanks WEAL but to be honest I am choosing not to work full time as I have a casual job in in-home disability support and am studying for a degree in counselling. I walked away from a full time job to do so as I felt called in that direction having come from a pretty despicable and dysfunctional way of life. I have a way of life now in which my family's needs are met so am comfortable with my work/study situation and that way of life gives me the strength to keep doing what I'm doing without getting or staying down.

I do get a bit antsy about some of the aspects of our discussion as I lost a reasonably close mate to that very insanity after he reached a opoint where he couldn't take the knocks any more, so there was nothing personal against you, just the subject matter.


----------



## spog (2/7/15)

#%*k me if you do not walk tall. Onya.


----------



## goomboogo (2/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> For our part, we vote in a party to lead us, we have to put our trust in that party to do the right thing for Australia and its people, which is what I am sure they do, K Rudd was a more than willing participant to sign up to these agreements, so it is not a left or right matter (apart from Gillard). Do you not think that the government lawyers and economic experts have not checked everything out, and whatever agreements we sign it is the same for all signatories.


I understand you find it difficult to believe a government would be a signatory to an agreement that benefits a few to the detriment of the many. Unfortunately, the world has been heading in this direction for a very long time. The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is the latest example of an instrument designed to widen the gulf between the powerful and the other 99.9999999999999999999%.

The TPP currently under negotiation has provisions for corporations to take legal action if a signatory state enacts legislation or regulation that is detrimental to the profit outcome of an interested corporation. This type of agreement facilitates the establishment of Supra-National tribunals that fall outside any national judicial system. Signatories to such agreements are bound by the decisions of the tribunal. There is an absence of accountability for the tribunal nominees.These tribunals can declare a law enacted by a democratically-elected government to be illegal and impose fines on the state for breaches.

So, there is a prospect of a sovereign state being sued as a result of a national government taking legislative or regulatory action in the name of the population for the benefit of the citizenry. The welfare of the people of a country plays second fiddle to the desires of a multi-national corporation, irrespective of who you vote for; because the legal balance will be heavily weighted against state. Subsequently, the government of the day is likely to be legislatively gun-shy when it comes to areas that may affect very large corporations.

There is little wonder our politicians want the deal done without scrutiny.


----------



## manticle (2/7/15)

Since WEAL's interpretation of world politics is:
'We vote them in, they sort it out, good job boys (except that chick)' 

then I think I can return to my whisky.


----------



## sponge (3/7/15)

Dw mants, I'll always allow you to return to your whisky, no matter my political views.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (3/7/15)

manticle said:


> Since WEAL's interpretation of world politics is:
> 'We vote them in, they sort it out, good job boys (except that chick)'


That's democracy manticle they are voted in and complete their term, if they **** up they don't get a second term.

ISDS agreements have been around for over 50 years, Australia is getting sued by Phillip Morris from a 1993 agreement which Phillip Morris are tipped to loose because the government retains the power to look after the health and safety of its people.
Has the sky fallen in, no, each signatory country has the same agreement imposed they haven't singled out one or two countries to bear the brunt of possible litigation.
I also don't agree with the idea of a multinational country suing a country, neither do many of the population of other signatory countries including USA, (which has never lost a case brought against it and they have over 50 agreements in place).
We need not sign, and be left out of the trading groups, would we be better off, no, we would be out in the cold, I for one believe we are better in than out.


----------



## manticle (3/7/15)

Democracy is a shade more than that but the whisky was nice anyway.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

SO why do WE as the people who elect the government allow them to sign and enter into agreements like this in secret....

We ( the people ) dont even know what is in these agreements.....but we let a VERY SMALL amount of people sign off on these without scrutiny

Doesnt seem very democratic to me....


----------



## Goose (3/7/15)

The old adage is that people deserve the Governments they elect.

Probably a truism of democracy


----------



## Dave70 (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> SO why do WE as the people who elect the government allow them to sign and enter into agreements like this in secret....
> 
> *We ( the people ) dont even know what is in these agreements.....but we let a VERY SMALL amount of people sign off on these without scrutiny*
> 
> Doesnt seem very democratic to me....


Because nothing would ever get done otherwise. Can you imagine? 
Lets face it, even armed with the knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, how many people do you think actually have the comprehensive skill to interpret the data and make an informed decision? I sure don't. 

Here you go Dave, here's five thousand pages of text relating to the proposed TPP agreements, have a read and let us know what you think. 

Its dangerous enough as it is letting a politically naive electorate vote in the first place. 
Dictatorships. Its just easier.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> SO why do WE as the people who elect the government allow them to sign and enter into agreements like this in secret....
> 
> We ( the people ) dont even know what is in these agreements.....but we let a VERY SMALL amount of people sign off on these without scrutiny
> 
> Doesnt seem very democratic to me....


We as the people elect the government to govern as they seem fit, and are allowed to by the opposition, entering agreements or breaking agreements, paying people smugglers or not paying people smugglers, of course these agreements get scrutinized, by both major parties doesn't matter which party is in power they will be signed off on, or knocked back.


----------



## goomboogo (3/7/15)

WEAL, are you happy for millions of taxpayer dollars to be spent defending the Phillip Morris case? The case would never have been initiated in the absence of an ISDS. 

I know I'm banging my head against a wall but sometimes, I like to imagine a world that is more equitable than the the one we currently have. As each year passes the balance shifts even further in the favour of a very small number of people. This process has been facilitated by all politicians. There is no difference between the LNP and the Labor party. They are 2 heads of the very same beast.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

But the oppostion parties are not allowed to view the TPP until it is signed

And anyway....If the opposition doesnt have the number ( which is why they are in opposition ) then the government of the day can do what they like. And do

I like how you say " to govern as THEY seem fit "


----------



## mje1980 (3/7/15)

Well that is how it works. Anybody can enter politics, have a go


----------



## goomboogo (3/7/15)

A lone voice in the political system is mute.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

Unless your in the side of those in power...your voice means sweet **** all


----------



## mje1980 (3/7/15)

Youre right, it's way too hard. Whinging on the Internet though, damn that's easy


----------



## wide eyed and legless (3/7/15)

goomboogo said:


> WEAL, are you happy for millions of taxpayer dollars to be spent defending the Phillip Morris case? The case would never have been initiated in the absence of an ISDS.
> 
> I know I'm banging my head against a wall but sometimes, I like to imagine a world that is more equitable than the the one we currently have. As each year passes the balance shifts even further in the favour of a very small number of people. This process has been facilitated by all politicians. There is no difference between the LNP and the Labor party. They are 2 heads of the very same beast.


As I said I would sooner there be no ISDS treaty than if there were, if Phillip Morris loses the case the it is Phillip Morris who foots the costs of Australia's legal team. Also it isn't just the effect on corporations and countries but also is there to protect individuals working in those countries.(As in the case of Peter Greste working for Al Jazeerah). 
Years ago the doomsayers used to trudge the street with a placard around their neck saying the end of the world is nigh, nowadays they just get on the internet and scare the crap out of anyone who will read their messages.


----------



## zarniwoop (3/7/15)

This is why I don't like compulsory voting, it just forces people who are uninformed and don't care about politics to vote, and as most people are influenced by mainstream media we end up with a government decided by the producers of A Current Affair etc.

Be better if I ran things I reckon....


----------



## seamad (3/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> As I said I would sooner there be no ISDS treaty than if there were, if Phillip Morris loses the case the it is Phillip Morris who foots the costs of Australia's legal team. Also it isn't just the effect on corporations and countries but also is there to protect individuals working in those countries.(As in the case of Peter Greste working for Al Jazeerah).
> Years ago the doomsayers used to trudge the street with a placard around their neck saying the end of the world is nigh, nowadays they just get on the internet and scare the crap out of anyone who will read their messages.


And here I was thinking it was abbott and murdoch who were trying to scare the crap out of people, look over there, the death cult.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

Just god damn lucky we have such progressive leaders.


----------



## SBOB (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Just god damn lucky we have such progressive leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it has to be about the dumbest opposing argument that I have heard, Abetz at his best


----------



## Black Devil Dog (3/7/15)

Dave70 said:


> Because nothing would ever get done otherwise. Can you imagine?
> Lets face it, even armed with the knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors, how many people do you think actually have the comprehensive skill to interpret the data and make an informed decision? I sure don't.
> 
> Here you go Dave, here's five thousand pages of text relating to the proposed TPP agreements, have a read and let us know what you think. *Can you also please run it past the 'know-alls' on AHB? We'd sure hate to keep them out of the fuckin' loop. *
> ...


Fixed it.


----------



## Dave70 (3/7/15)

SBOB said:


> it has to be about the dumbest opposing argument that I have heard, Abetz at his best


Wait until you see his T shirt.


----------



## goomboogo (3/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Years ago the doomsayers used to trudge the street with a placard around their neck saying the end of the world is nigh, nowadays they just get on the internet and scare the crap out of anyone who will read their messages.


No post in this thread has done anything like this. Pointing out that certain actions may have less than desirable outcomes for many people is hardly akin to proclaiming the forthcoming of the end of the world. Hyperbole is probably best left to the politicians.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

I can see why the government hates wind turbine...all those emissions once the start working


----------



## Camo6 (3/7/15)

Goddamn wedge tailed eagles.


----------



## warra48 (3/7/15)

Dave70 said:


> Wait until you see his T shirt.




Please stop quoting Old Testament texts. Those laws were specially given to the Israelites, and were never meant to apply to us gentiles.
If you wish to use biblical verses in your argument, use them from the New Testament instead.
No, I'm not going to give you the texts you can use, find them for yourself instead.


----------



## seamad (3/7/15)

warra48 said:


> Please stop quoting Old Testament texts. Those laws were specially given to the Israelites, and were never meant to apply to us gentiles.
> If you wish to use biblical verses in your argument, use them from the New Testament instead.
> No, I'm not going to give you the texts you can use, find them for yourself instead.


I think the NT may be a bit too progressive for Abetz


----------



## Dave70 (3/7/15)

Dont forget the dreaded win turbine syndrome (WTS).

Thank **** 2GBs Alan Jones in on the job..

http://stopthesethings.com/2015/01/25/alan-jones-victims-like-turbine-host-david-mortimer-vindicated-by-steven-coopers-groundbreaking-wind-farm-study/


----------



## Dave70 (3/7/15)

warra48 said:


> Please stop quoting Old Testament texts. Those laws were specially given to the Israelites, and were never meant to apply to us gentiles.
> If you wish to use biblical verses in your argument, use them from the New Testament instead.
> No, I'm not going to give you the texts you can use, find them for yourself instead.


My bad.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

I am just waiting for Abbott to fund the building of our very own one of these

http://creationmuseum.org/


----------



## Dave70 (3/7/15)

Guessing this bloke wont be on the short list for the ribbin cutting..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txzOIGulUIQ


----------



## Black Devil Dog (3/7/15)

Galatians 5:19-21

_ The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery,_
_idolatry, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions,_
_ drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. _

Might as well forget about inheriting the kingdom of god.


----------



## booargy (3/7/15)

Haha still at it


----------



## wide eyed and legless (3/7/15)

My wife is about halfway through The Awakening by Sam Harris, not bad for someone who, when I looked at a crossword she had in progress, a clue, 'A South American Indian name for corn 5 letters'. She had written in 'sweet' bless her.


----------



## Lincoln2 (3/7/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Galatians 5:19-21
> 
> _ The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery,_
> _idolatry, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions,_
> ...


****, that sounds like most of my weekends.


----------



## manticle (3/7/15)

warra48 said:


> Please stop quoting Old Testament texts. Those laws were specially given to the Israelites, and were never meant to apply to us gentiles.
> If you wish to use biblical verses in your argument, use them from the New Testament instead.
> No, I'm not going to give you the texts you can use, find them for yourself instead.


So only half the book is worth anything?
Why did God make multiple sets of laws?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

manticle said:


> So only half the book is worth anything?
> Why did God make multiple sets of laws?


Got to love him, such a sense of humour


----------



## goomboogo (3/7/15)

Lincoln2 said:


> ****, that sounds like most of my weekends.


No kingdom for you. You may as well just get in the ******* sea right now.


----------



## Goose (3/7/15)

did somebody mention global warming ?


----------



## goomboogo (3/7/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Fixed it.


Keep your chin up mate. Don't allow a lack of comprehension make you feel inadequate.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

Well, we dont nead this stuff in the ground, it just takes up space


----------



## manticle (3/7/15)

Goose said:


> did somebody mention global warming ?


No.


----------



## Goose (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Well, we dont nead this stuff in the ground, it just takes up space


try putting that in your petrol tank stu.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

Well I was going to run my car on pure alcohol made on the back yard....But I may have hit a stumbling block


----------



## seamad (3/7/15)

run out of head gaskets ?


----------



## Camo6 (3/7/15)

manticle said:


> So only half the book is worth anything?
> Why did God make multiple sets of laws?


Was having a healthy discussion with my religious brother the other day about gay marriage. I asked him why he was so against it and he said it was against God's will. I asked him why God would allow someone to be born gay if it was against His will. He said he believed people chose to be gay and there was still no scientific proof that they were born gay. I asked him "So you don't believe in something without scientific proof?" You should've seen him backpedal.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

seamad said:


> run out of head gaskets ?


Got a good supplier now. :lol:


----------



## Dave70 (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Well, we dont nead this stuff in the ground, it just takes up space



Yeah well, dont think you can go foisting you dodgy ******* coal on us 'cobber'..

http://www.afr.com/business/mining/inconsistent-quality-tests-see-china-reject-australian-coal-20150701-gi23gr


----------



## booargy (3/7/15)

You know if you burn that in an enclosed space you could at least power your brewery with the gas


----------



## jlm (3/7/15)

Dave70 said:


> Wait until you see his T shirt.


I remember that one fondly from sunday school.......Father O'Leary kept repeating it while pounding my ass. If I remember correctly, It goes "Its not gay if your balls don't touch"


warra48 said:


> Please stop quoting Old Testament texts. Those laws were specially given to the Israelites, and were never meant to apply to us gentiles.
> If you wish to use biblical verses in your argument, use them from the New Testament instead.
> No, I'm not going to give you the texts you can use, find them for yourself instead.


Yeah guise. Liek stop quoting outdated texts and stuff. Its like your bringing up one of those old recipes where they put a rooster (or 2, but they make sure their balls don't touch) into a batch of ale. No one is silly enough to try that malarky anymore.


----------



## jlm (3/7/15)

Goose said:


> did somebody mention global warming ?


Maybe you could direct us to a link where someone unleashes awesome sciences (preferably from a retiree with half an idea of how to use MS Paint) liek the above knowledge bomb you just dropped on us?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

Bacchus do a Cock Ale....


----------



## goomboogo (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Bacchus do a Cock Ale....


That one has nothing to do with roosters though.


----------



## jlm (3/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Bacchus do a Cock Ale....


Huh. So despite the fact that there's newer texts out there that would advise us of a more sensible path (in brewing), there's still crackpots who would believe the old ways?

That's that then. I'm putting all of you left handed crayfish/prawn eating sinners on notice. On Yaweh's advice I'm coming for you all.


----------



## jlm (3/7/15)

Goose said:


> did somebody mention global warming ?


I was trying to find your source when I stumbled upon this:
View attachment meta-chart.pdf

Who's pie chart to believe?


----------



## manticle (3/7/15)

I'd like a savoury flaky crust graph with spicy relish please

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

goomboogo said:


> That one has nothing to do with roosters though.


Actually it does


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/7/15)

jlm said:


> That's that then. I'm putting all of you left handed crayfish/prawn eating sinners on notice. On Yaweh's advice I'm coming for you all.


Bacchus also did a Lobster Ale.


----------



## Black Devil Dog (4/7/15)

goomboogo said:


> Keep your chin up mate. Don't allow a lack of comprehension make you feel inadequate.


Yeah, it could be worse, could resort to snide personal remarks.


----------



## goomboogo (4/7/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Yeah, it could be worse, could resort to snide personal remarks.





Black Devil Dog said:


> *Can you also please run it past the 'know-alls' on AHB? We'd sure hate to keep them out of the fuckin' loop.*


It would appear you already have it covered.


----------



## Black Devil Dog (4/7/15)

Sorry if you took offence.


----------



## 620rossco (4/7/15)

> We need not sign, and be left out of the trading groups, would we be better off, no, we would be out in the cold, I for one believe we are better in than out.


The trubunal that is hearing the Phillip Morris case is not subject rule of law, does not follow any form of precedent, has no reporting obligation, has no form of judiciary, is not independant and allows for no form of appeal. These cases have rendered Canada's environmental law unworkable for many local authorities. Might be worth looking at some of the submissions to DFAT by institutions such as ANU and other universities/ international law faculties.


----------



## goomboogo (4/7/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Sorry if you took offence.


That's ok. I don't find hypocrisy offensive.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

620rossco said:


> The trubunal that is hearing the Phillip Morris case is not subject rule of law, does not follow any form of precedent, has no reporting obligation, has no form of judiciary, is not independant and allows for no form of appeal. These cases have rendered Canada's environmental law unworkable for many local authorities. Might be worth looking at some of the submissions to DFAT by institutions such as ANU and other universities/ international law faculties.


This is EXACTLY the problem with these types of deals

Its basically now a case of " He said i could and now he wont let me anymore"......

So if the sovereign country changes the law, which they are allowed to do, they cant make it apply to to an existing agreement

So, for instance, The Great BIg multinational comes in, signs a deal to built a plant that makes stuff. After a few years the government changes some laws ( general in nature, not specicif the the company ) because they find that the stuff they are making is hazardous,polluting, damaging the environment, or the workers are being exploited, The Great Big Multinational can say " **** you, you said we could do this, and we will...get stuffed"....and get away with it


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

What does this have to do with the Gov cracking down on distilling, fucks me


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/7/15)

A brief outline of ISDS agreement.

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-sheets/2015/march/investor-state-dispute-settlement-isds


----------



## manticle (4/7/15)

@stu:

The question was asked pages ago - I gave up.
we've had ISIS/ISIL, Hitler, free trade agreements, left/right politics including capitalism vs social welfare and religion.

Surprisingly civil considering the diversity of topics on a beer forum. Utterly nonsensical but no-one's perfect I guess.


----------



## seamad (4/7/15)

It's Stu's fault, he failed to correctly name the topic of the thread, it should have been ... distilling, unions, fta's and other shit.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

My bad.



wide eyed and legless said:


> A brief outline of the United States of America ISDS agreement.
> 
> https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-sheets/2015/march/investor-state-dispute-settlement-isds


FTFY


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/7/15)

Yeah right stu, each country signs off on its own ISDS :lol:


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yeah right stu, each country signs off on its own ISDS :lol:


So have you seen ours...?


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/7/15)

Tony is still working on getting ISDS removed from the TPPA. Unlike Krudd and Crean who were willing to sign up.


----------



## manticle (4/7/15)

Trust Tony. He's a good bloke. I know cos Andrew Bolt has had dinner with him, I read andrew bolt semi regularly and he is certainly a good bloke.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

And Tony is also good mates with Alan Jones.

He has an impeccable circle of friends


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Tony is still working on getting ISDS removed from the TPPA. Unlike Krudd and Crean who were willing to sign up.


How do you know this ?


----------



## wide eyed and legless (4/7/15)

Rupert told me.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Show me the proof then...go on...show it to me....


----------



## manticle (4/7/15)

WEAL- So cynical of supernatural, all powerful, mystical creatures, so trusting of those in, and with direct power.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

I am just waiting for WEAL to show proof that Tony wants to remove ISDS from the TPPA


----------



## Benn (4/7/15)

So... Who's up for some xx moonshine xx


----------



## goomboogo (4/7/15)

Benn said:


> So... Who's up for some xx moonshine xx


Shhhhh. Say it too loud and next thing the government will crack down on the home distillation of alcohol.


----------



## jlm (4/7/15)

I recently read somewhere they might be doing that. Has anyone heard anything?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Not recently...


A couple of years back something was mentioned about illegal stills, but that was before AHB even existed

Doubt we will hear much more either....Its a bit like Gay marriage.....its not like anyone does it


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## wide eyed and legless (4/7/15)

As we all know, we only know what we are told.
http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/tpp/resources/Documents/trans-pacific-partnership-agreement-negotiations-myths-versus-realities.pdf


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

You really do like this TPP dont you WEAL. :lol:

You could get a job with Tony and his crew. Afteral, he needs all the help he can get winning over the voters on AHB

But in saying that, the document link is, well, as they say, a little bit of spin.....without all the facts


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## goomboogo (4/7/15)

jlm said:


> I recently read somewhere they might be doing that. Has anyone heard anything?


I might start a thread about it and see if we can get to the bottom of it.


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## Bridges (4/7/15)

goomboogo said:


> I might start a thread about it and see if we can get to the bottom of it.


Sure way not to get any where near the bottom of it, just all around it, and to places you don't expect and don't want to go to.


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## goomboogo (4/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> As we all know, we only know what we are told.
> http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/tpp/resources/Documents/trans-pacific-partnership-agreement-negotiations-myths-versus-realities.pdf


I agree. Mushrooms, the lot of us.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

I wonder if you could *********** mushrooms ?


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## wide eyed and legless (4/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You really do like this TPP dont you WEAL. :lol:
> 
> You could get a job with Tony and his crew. Afteral, he needs all the help he can get winning over the voters on AHB
> 
> But in saying that, the document link is, well, as they say, a little bit of spin.....without all the facts


My next job I would like it to be with the HSU, Kathy Jackson's old job would be nice, get a slush fund going, straight into my bank account overseas.
Failing that I want to be a car park attendant.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> My next job I would like it to be with the HSU, Kathy Jackson's old job would be nice, get a slush fund going, straight into my bank account overseas.
> Failing that I want to be a car park attendant.


Or you could just work for the Liberals....


I remember not so long ago some senior Liberals in NSW took a bit of a hit....


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## Benn (4/7/15)

I like Gin and Tequila, and scotch n dry's, bourbon etc all tastes like petrol to me.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Benn said:


> I like Gin and Tequila, and scotch n dry's, bourbon etc all tastes like petrol to me.


Try E10..or E85 if you can get it


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## Benn (4/7/15)

Haha, pisser, just googled it.


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## Mr B (4/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I can see why the government hates wind turbine...all those emissions once the start working



You can see that it was running backwards, a no brainer really.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Mr B said:


> You can see that it was running backwards, a no brainer really.


Regardless

I would have loved to have seen it in person. I would have gone " yep. that's going to blow the monthly repair budget"


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## Mr B (4/7/15)

The guy that said "Considering the aerodynamics of the turbine propeller profile, and the holt warfreimer ratio of friction and propelllive velocity, I think if we mount the main motor frame vice versilary then we may see an efficiency increase of approximately



(about 3%). Lets do it................."



Anyhoosie, how about those stills eh?


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Mr B said:


> Anyhoosie, how about those stills eh?


Yeah...hate them...bloody flies keep dropping dead in them so you have to keep vacuuming them out....and then you need a toothbrush to clean them out ( at the behest of the Real( Rort ) Estate Agent ) or thou shall be denied of ones bond 

So yeah, **** them window stills....worse than louver windows....


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## Mr B (4/7/15)

Before you know it the Guvement will tax the window stills, legislate and contact potential suppliers to reduce the damage in comparison to the louvers, because they are entirely different ways to enlighten the habitation.

Funny think about flies though, seemingly attracted to stills and it ends up the end of them.....


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Maybe the Government could tax misinformation about stills


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## Benn (4/7/15)

Or they could just charge you stamp duty when you buy your still, then charge you capital gains tax when you sell your still.


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## Benn (4/7/15)

...and then the local water authority could charge you a fee just for having their service run adjacent to your still even though your still is not actually connected to their shitty shit pipe!!!


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/7/15)

Maybe if you gave them some money every year they would give you a licence. Like they do with CB radios.


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## Benn (4/7/15)

Just be sure to declare that you and your still are in a defacto relationship or risk disciplinary action!


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## Beer Ninja (5/7/15)

panzerd18 said:


> But what has made then turn a blind eye for so long and all of a sudden it's in the spotlight? I'm asking if the deaths in india were a contributing factor, or did this crackdown occur before that event?


Right wing gov. Ferkers.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/7/15)

A health issue, maybe, a couple of years ago 3 young Queens lander's died and a special Police task force was set up to look at illegal distilling of liquor. 
I can't see the ATO wasting resources for less gain than expenditure.
Maybe they are going to ban the sale of stills or do a buy back, anyone bringing them in from overseas would risk losing their money and equipment plus maybe a fine.

What happened to the AHB member PUMPKIN he was importing and selling stills maybe he would know more, I haven't seen him on here for a while though.


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## mje1980 (5/7/15)

He had his citizenship revoked for selling stills


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/7/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What happened to the AHB member PUMPKIN he was importing and selling stills maybe he would know more, I haven't seen him on here for a while though.


He was basically a F&^%wit....

He had his name changed on a distillers forum to RSOLE


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## goomboogo (5/7/15)

Punkin was active on the board at the end of may, so he's still around.

The sale of stills(for any use) could be outlawed but this would only affect those openly selling stills. People will always be able to source stills from places other than homebrew shops. Going after everyone who has a still on their premise would be messy. That's not to say it can't happen but it would require significant motivation. We're all just guessing whether the motivation exists. So far, nothing has happened to suggest there is a genuine desire to change the current circumstance.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/7/15)

Knew a guy on a fishing forum who had his penis enlarged and changed his name to,'Maxwell Hung' .


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## clickeral (6/7/15)

hellbent said:


> same here... $25


I wonder how back home in NZ there is no issues with Distilling for personal use yet in a country that is meant to be modern and one of the best places to live in the world it isn't sigh

Having distilled back in NZ I can tell you that if done right 1L of quality Vodka/Neutral costs about $4 to produce

Now I am talking quality product that is comparable to told shelf liquor. Not the crap turbo yeast t500 bullshit which works out to be a dam sight cheaper

Deaths only happen when people water down alcohol with high quantity methanol to make the product go further

I could produce say 6L of 40ish % from a 30L wash without removing any methanol (generally you remove the first 150ml) drink the whole batch and I still wouldn't die from methanol poisoning 

Tax wise last time I checked duty is $78 per Litre of 100% so for your 6L you should be paying about $156

Most of the brewers I know produce more then they can drink in order to build up aged stock so they can drink better product.

I have never sold and do not think people should

Safety wise more education is a good thing rather then a bad

I could easily build a still tomorrow if I wanted too


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## QldKev (6/7/15)

*MODERATION*
*Please stick to the discussion of the question of the potential crackdown. *

I have removed a few comments that were starting to discuss distilling practices.

edit:
If anyone feels their removed post was not in breach of the site rules please feel free to pm me to discuss.


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## HBHB (6/7/15)

Not saying a word


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## Benn (6/7/15)

Can't say that sign is an effective deterrent in relation to the surrounding persons.


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## wide eyed and legless (6/7/15)

I was thinking the same thing, except that a pair of lips that had touched liquor would have had to have touched a hell of a lot of liquor to want to touch the lips of the surrounding persons.


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## spog (6/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I can see why the government hates wind turbine...all those emissions once the start working


Never had much faith in those spinny roundy things anyway.


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## labels (6/7/15)

Reality is, other than a couple of obscure cartoon video clips on YouTube, I've not heard any more about the crackdown. No newspaper ads, TV ads or any other information. No new legislation coming up or new rules - nothing.

We are allowed to own up to a 5L still for distilling water and essential oils etc. It's always been within the rules and still is, nothing has changed. They must also realise that they are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted Openly selling stuff to distil alcohol has been available for years now, practically every home brew shop in the country sells it, plus online. I don't see a crackdown, just a reminder of the law is.


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/7/15)

spog said:


> Never had much faith in those spinny roundy things anyway.


Me either


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## HBHB (9/7/15)

labels said:


> Reality is, other than a couple of obscure cartoon video clips on YouTube, I've not heard any more about the crackdown. No newspaper ads, TV ads or any other information. No new legislation coming up or new rules - nothing.


That's because there is no crackdown. Just a revisitation by the relevant authority to let everyone know they're still there < no pun intended.

The laws haven't changed.

If they ever did go the whole hog, they'll probably need to put a fence around a city the size of Sydney to house a whole lot of age pensioners in low risk detention though. Just sayin'.


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