# Cost Of Doing An Ag?



## kuzzy (22/2/10)

I'm a long term kit brewer who is getting into the "bits" at this stage (steeping grains and tea bag hops), with the plan to AG when I get the gear.

Quick question:

What does the grain & hops cost for an average single brew?


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## banora brewer (22/2/10)

kuzzy said:


> I'm a long term kit brewer who is getting into the "bits" at this stage (steeping grains and tea bag hops), with the plan to AG when I get the gear.
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> What does the grain & hops cost for an average single brew?



About $35 depending on recipe, its not about the money, its about the experience, the smells, and the taste, but what a difference AG makes


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## Adamt (22/2/10)

It really depends on what you're brewing (specialty grains, hops needed, etc.), but for a basic 100% ale/pils malt, and say 50g hops and dry yeast, $30 would cover a 25L, 1.050 batch easily.

Costs can increase if you use more specialty malts, imported malts, more hops, liquid yeasts... but costs can decrease if you buy ingredients in bulk, grow your own hops, farm your own yeasts/trade with other people, better efficiency, etc.


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## warra48 (22/2/10)

How long's a piece of string?

OK, lets look at an avarage 23 litre batch, with average efficiency.

5 kg grains @ say $4 kg = $20
80 - 100 gr hops, say $10
Brewing salts, whirlfloc etc $0.50
Gas to heat HLT and kettle $4 (probably somwhat less if electric)
Yeast can be anything from $0 to about $12 for a whole new smackpak, depending on your starter practice or yeast harvesting etc.

All up you are looking at somewhere about $40 per batch.

Now, if you have a mill, you can buy your malts in bulk and reduce the cost somewhat.
None of these estimates make any allowance for amortisation of the capital cost of setting up your AG system, but that's a whole other subject on its own.


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## Screwtop (22/2/10)

kuzzy said:


> I'm a long term kit brewer who is getting into the "bits" at this stage (steeping grains and tea bag hops), with the plan to AG when I get the gear.
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> What does the grain & hops cost for an average single brew?




You care about the cost of producing great beer????

Stick with kits  

Screwy


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## chappo1970 (22/2/10)

As per Adam.

I only do doubles which average about $45-50 for 2x19lts of finished beer or 2 cornies or 54 tallies. To be honest because I rarely buy megaswill commercial I really don't look at what I am spending anymore I just know I am in front.

Cheers

Chap Chap


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## DUANNE (22/2/10)

as has already been said it depends. my basic aussie lager is around 20,25 bucks but some of my ipas comein at closer to 50 bucks with a shitload of hops. its probably dearer than a basic k+b but cheaper than the equivelent extract brew.the main expense is in setting up but once your past that a lot cheaper and better quality than most beer you can buy.


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## Cocko (22/2/10)

Screwtop said:


> You care about the cost of producing great beer????
> 
> Stick with kits
> 
> Screwy




Nailed it!!


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## bum (22/2/10)

Screwtop said:


> You care about the cost of producing great beer????
> 
> Stick with kits



That's a bit unfair. We're not all rolling in the folding stuff and these things can raise certain _issues_ about the house.

OP, I've found that my more adventurous K&B/extract brews easily cost at least as much as an AG brew. As Warra points out - the real hurdle is the set-up costs (which can be as much or, almost, as little as you want depending on what corners you're happy to cut and your desire to do a Bob the Builder on it with scrounged materials).


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## Screwtop (22/2/10)

bum said:


> That's a bit unfair. We're not all rolling in the folding stuff and these things can raise certain _issues_ about the house.



So he's moving to Ag because.........................

Screwy


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## bum (22/2/10)

He wants better beer but also wishes to be informed on the issues that he feels pertinent to be abreast of before making the jump.


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## mxd (22/2/10)

as I have just started, it is costing up to $45 a batch, which is similar price to fresh worts, not too sure where you are but you could try them to start.

I am now starting to "save" on the cost of brews.

So now I have a mill $200 and storage containers to make grain cheaper.
I have a vacuum sealer $100 to make Hops cheaper.
I have another fridge/freezer to store the Hops and hold the yeast slurries to make yeast cheaper.

There is a great comment somewhere that we send a lot of money to make cheap beer 

But rough cost for my 6 batches

Around $20 in base grain, $8 in specialty grain, yeast between $5 and $15, Hops $15, delivery $8.


I figure it's a bit less than a Slab of JSGA or LCPA and bit more than a slab of VB for the equivalent of 2 slabs of great beer (lets ignore 2 of my brews that I killed  )


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## chappo1970 (22/2/10)

Screwtop said:


> So he's moving to Ag because.........................
> 
> Screwy




Agree Screwy. My sole motivation of moving to AG was for flavour and aroma. IIRC partials and extract were really no cheaper than AG.

As Bum has pointed out the gear can add up but have a look at Manticle for inspiration. His early beers were great and note worthy and he didn't have any fancy gear what so ever. It can be as cheap or expensive as you want.

Compared to a carton of megaswill there is not competition is there?


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## marksfish (22/2/10)

i seem to remember a thread on how to get into a/g for 30 bucks so domestic issues should not be a problem, as to the cost of an a/g brew i will quote John Palmer " it depends".


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## Screwtop (22/2/10)

Chappo said:


> Agree Screwy. My sole motivation of moving to AG was for flavour and aroma. IIRC partials and extract were really no cheaper than AG.
> 
> As Bum has pointed out the gear can add up but have a look at Manticle for inspiration. His early beers were great and note worthy and he didn't have any fancy gear what so ever. It can be as cheap or expensive as you want.
> 
> Compared to a carton of megaswill there is not competition is there?




Some guys have boats...............................


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## Cocko (22/2/10)

Chappo said:


> It can be as cheap or expensive as you want.




Op's question of what grain and hops cost has been answered and will probably continued to be from many.....

The cost to be _able to_ is very well summed up by chappo above IMO.


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## Tony (22/2/10)

I won a State championship and a gold medal at AABC with a beer made in a $30 esky, with a 10" piece of bent 3/8 copper tube for a pickup. boiled in an old keg with the top cut off...... as many others have too.

all up the cost of 2 cartons of VB. You dont need a big flash brewery. I have one now but still brew in the old esky from time to time!

invest in a grain mill (and it is an investment!) and buy your malt in bulk, and the beer will be far better than extract brews and wont sost bugger all more.

Just time to brew it .... but thats half the fun.

cheers


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## kuzzy (22/2/10)

I don't really care about the cost - I was just wondering what the ongoing brewing cost was.

I already have expensive hobbies (2 race cars & 6 kids!), so another hobbie won't smash the already damaged bank account! I also have an awsome shed so the space is not an issue.

I really like the idea of doing it from scratch and saying - I really made this by myself, not a kit - and if it is better tasting even better.


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## Cocko (22/2/10)

kuzzy said:


> I don't really care about the cost - I was just wondering what the ongoing brewing cost was.
> 
> I already have expensive hobbies (2 race cars & 6 kids!), so another hobbie won't smash the already damaged bank account! I also have an awsome shed so the space is not an issue.
> 
> I really like the idea of doing it from scratch and saying - I really made this by myself, not a kit - and if it is better tasting even better.




Go for it mate!

Will it taste better - no question.

:chug:


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## chappo1970 (22/2/10)

Screwtop said:


> Some guys have boats...............................




And some have Breweries.... :lol:


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## ledgenko (22/2/10)

I must be lucky .. I have a boat and brew !! but seriously the cost is quickly outweighed when it comes to the quality of beer. Take my beloved "White Rabbit Dark ale" .. one of Australia's newest and most exciting beers (IMO) .. $20 a six pack when a quick search on line will give you a clone which is pretty damn close (better in some minds). So what may start off as a $200 kettle and modified esky is quickly made worthwhile. 

It does become a bit of an addiction .. quite a big one .. where beer takes over your life .. dream it and think it 24/7 .. but such a beautiful nightmare... 

For a cheap option I will give you a sweet recipe for a cheap and beautiful beer .. D445.. 

BRB


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## chappo1970 (22/2/10)

kuzzy said:


> I already have expensive hobbies (2 race cars & 6 kids!), so another hobbie won't smash the already damaged bank account! I also have an awsome shed so the space is not an issue.




I too have a race car and I can tell you for the cost of a new block and say some decent headers you will have more beer than you can poke a checkered flag at. Unlike cars that like to break things more than once with AG brewing, if you buy well and quality gear, the gear will literally last you a life time.

Cheers

Chap Chap


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## EK (22/2/10)

Kuzzy,

I was also a kit brewer long(ish) term, about 5-6 years. I also had the same concerns with regards to cost as you do. In fact, I was not able to move to AG until there was a global financial meltdown and Uncle KRudd issues a handout that allowed me to buy a 40L Crown Urn for BIAB-style AG.

After the initial gear, the costs per brew can be (as many others have said) pretty variant. However, you can make great beer via AG without breaking the weekly budget.

I find that there are some beers that cost me about $45 to make and others that are as low as $20. As I take notes about all of my brews, I find that if I have extra hops left over from a more expensive brew it lowers the cost for the next. Also, If i can re-use yeast then the cost is lower still. This does mean I often brew two or three beers in the same style, but that's fine, I also have plenty of stock to choose from and I try to keep it that way.

I didn't get into AG in order to make great beer at any cost as others seem to have, I wanted to make better beer and not break my budget.

My advice is to do your research and find out exactly what equipment you are going to need. Ensure that you have the process worked out so that you don't get all the gear and then find out you need a $40 part that you didn't account for. Also check the costs of grain, hops and yeast from where you intend to buy. Evaluate the costs of a few of the recipes you intend to brew and see if you can do it inside your budget. If you can do it then go for it, you won't regret it.

:icon_cheers: 
EK


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## Fourstar (22/2/10)

keeping everything simple. assume all grain (specialty or base malt) cost 4 and 100g of hops cost 12 bucks.

most batches @ 65-70 brewhouse efficiency will use 5.5-6 kg for a 1.050 OG.

if you use a 6% AA hop throughout the batch @ 30 IBU you will probably use 50-100g depending on the hopping schedule. saying that you are looking at

22 + 6 = 28 (approx minimum cost)

24 + 12 = 36 (approx max cost)

Once you start buying in bulk things ususally get cheaper depending on your retailer.


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## Bribie G (22/2/10)

Another Kevvie Urn brewer here. It also depends what style you enjoy drinking. I'm a UK bitter or Aussie lager brewer, with the odd stout. You can make an authentic and very enjoyable bitter with 4 kg of malt, some sugar and 50 g of assorted UK style hops (which currently are running at about 60% of the price of popular USA hops). Also I recycle yeast, as most do so for a quaffing bitter:

4kg ale malt at 3.80 a kilo $15.20
some spec grains $2
50 g pom hops $4
da sugaz $0.50
yeast pro rata $1

Around $20 to $25 should wrap up a typical quaffing brew. If I had a mill and participated in grain bulk buys I would probably average out around $17

Now with Aussie Lagers at their most basic you really only need 

4kg pilsener malt $15.20
rice $1.50
30g POR $2.50
sugaz $0.50
yeast pro rata $1

Around $20 for a great lawnmower and six o clock swiller that leaves Carlton for dead

On the other hand I'm brewing a couple of American Ambers for the March comp and they each have around a kilo of spec dark grains, base malt, I bought a smack pack which I probably won't use for future brews and they both have around 120g of USA hops which I got cheap as it happens, but at full price each batch would probably be worth up around the $40 mark. So yes, it's how long is a piece of string :lol: I'm doing the Americans as an experiment as well as a comp entry because I like to branch out now and again, but will I get twice the enjoyment out of them compared to a couple of Aussie Lagers? Dunno - but the cost isn't the driving factor.


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## praxis178 (22/2/10)

Chappo said:


> And some have Breweries.... :lol:


Can I be in three brackets? 

I have boats, planes and a brewery. I got rid of the 15ton crush capacity winery three years ago, too many hobbies so not enough time for work! :super:


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## Melthar (22/2/10)

One thing that has already been said but is worth repeating.

Buying in bulk makes a world of difference. Some things you may not want to buy in bulk because you'd like to experiment with styles, but a 25kg bag of pale malt, and maybe the same of pils gives you a great starting point to which you can add small quantities of spec grains 

As an example, Barret Burton Malt ( http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=773 )
1kg: $4/Kg
25kg: $2.40Kg

Even cheaper if you can take advantage of the bulk buys that pop up in the forums.


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## Scruffy (22/2/10)

My Citra IPA cost about $60 odd. It made 19 litres of 10%+ beer.

Then there's Pipes and Sterilizers and Whirlfloc and Idophor and PH paper and Pots and Gas and kegs and different gas and taps and fridges and Brew Club subscription and a Mill and a March Pump and Gypsum and a Hop Sock and Beersmith registration and...


...get the idea...?


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## manticle (22/2/10)

I don't really count the cost. If I can afford it, I buy it. If I can't, I either don't or I find another way. The generosity of other brewers is also very helpful.

However I would say that an average brew (and who here brews average beer?) would cost less than an extract brew and far less than the same amount of commercial beer.

You can set yourself up for thousands of dollars or you can set yourself up for under $100 and even under $50. It's up to you, what you can afford, what you can build yourself (or source elsewhere) and what you want to spend.

Ingredients, as pointed out, will vary dependent on brew and whether you buy bulk, whether you use liquid yeast and harvest/reharvest/farm the yeast, how often you do it etc.

Essentially though I reckon full extract is the most expensive form of brewing so if you're moving towards bits and maybe extract the price will not go any higher per brew (equipment dependent).

Definitely worth it - take it from a man with bugger all disposable income (casual worker and postgrad student). The only boat I can afford is one I make myself from aluminium foil but the pleasure I get from the smell of mashing in the morning is comparable to few other things.


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## Nick JD (23/2/10)

BB Ale Malt is $2.20 per kg in 25kg sacks. That's about $10 for a 23L batch. Add 20g of 12% AA hops and that's another $2.00.

Throw it on the yeast of your last batch, that's $0.00 for yeast if you were gonna chuck it. Electricity is about 10c.

$12 for 23L is near enough to 50c a liter to not worry. Cheaper and MUCH better than a kit beer. Getting giddy on a dollar makes glue sniffing seem extravagant.

Or you can make a beer the girls will love for $50 - but make sure you wear your pink tutu when you drink it in your sippy-cup.


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## HoppingMad (23/2/10)

manticle said:


> The generosity of other brewers is also very helpful.



+1. If you become part of the brewing community you will find that your currency can often become the beers you brew, or simply because you share the passion people will share their supplies with you. And as a result of this your costs can be a lot lower that you'd expect. 

To answer your OP though - I have made all grain beers for as little as $18 (straight pilsener grain type brews with low hopping), and as much as $45 for 19L batches (using specialty grains and liquid yeasts). You can make beers cheaply also if you reuse yeast slurries as well and if you get to know other AG'ers here or at a club often they'll pass on a yeast starter to you if you haven't tried a type of yeast before. Getting onto the grain bulk buys available on this site will also save you a truckload.

Whether you're paying $18 or $45, that's around 25 x 750ml longnecks whichever way you look at it. So yes it's economical, but often the goal of brewers is not purely economy - but creating something a commercial can't, and that means spending a little more than they would on ingredients to create something unique. 

You'll find Domosura does a good justification of the cost on his Beerbelly website as well when he's talking about his turnkey breweries - you can find it here with a good breakdown: Frequently Asked Questions

Hopper  .


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## Fents (23/2/10)

Screwtop said:


> Some guys have boats...............................






Chappo said:


> And some have Breweries.... :lol:



and some have both


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## Screwtop (23/2/10)

ledgenko said:


> I must be lucky .. I have a boat and brew !! but seriously the cost is quickly outweighed when it comes to the quality of beer. Take my beloved "White Rabbit Dark ale" .. one of Australia's newest and most exciting beers (IMO) .. $20 a six pack when a quick search on line will give you a clone which is pretty damn close (better in some minds). So what may start off as a $200 kettle and modified esky is quickly made worthwhile.
> 
> It does become a bit of an addiction .. quite a big one .. where beer takes over your life .. dream it and think it 24/7 .. but such a beautiful nightmare...
> 
> ...




I'm hearing that!!!!!!!!

Screwy


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## chadjaja (23/2/10)

I have a second hand esky, toilet braid for a filter and my 40L urn is nearly paid off after not many brews at all. I'd say AG for me costs half of what kits and bits did especially when I used to use dry yeast for every batch and thats more expensive these days.

I'm prob about $20 or so a keg for a standard batch, increasing your efficiency saves money on grain too.


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## MarkBastard (23/2/10)

Good to see people are being more realistic about the costs now.

Anyway I think it's worth it. Before I started home brewing I worked out how much I spend per year on beer including going to pubs and it was a lot. Despite buying heaps and heaps of equipment and feeling like I've spent bucketloads of money on gear I reckon I'm in front.

Plus you get the hobby factor as well. At least this is a productive hobby.


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## mckenry (23/2/10)

quick answer = $1/L

No scrimping on ingredients either. Yes I am a bulk grain buyer.


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## argon (23/2/10)

I reckon if cost is a concern ( or consideration at least) planning is the key.

Whenever I formulate or find a decent recipe, i'll plan to use common quantities or factors of weight that I can access. For example I get 90g packs of hops from Ross. So therefore I'll use a divisible factor of 90 in my recipe. That way I try and get a few brews out of the one packet and minimise waste. I end up doing similar styles, but nit the same thing over and over again. Eg I have a EKG IPA, a Landlord and an APA all which used 1 90g EKG hop pack (of course along with other stuff)

now I'm farming some yeast the costs are going to drop again.

For me doing it this way I might spend $60 everytime i go down to craftbrewers, but I reckon I get at least 2 brews out of it. And I do 34L batches (2 cubes)

For me the biggest "cost" factor is the time. Can't find enough of it. Had a bit of a think about this the other day actually. My hourly charge out rate at work is $264 incl GST. (not what I get... What I cost the client). So if I was to do a brew, I average about 4 and a bit hours all tolled including cleaning. 

So a typical "$30" batch actually costs (4.5x262) + 30= $1078. At 34L that equals $31.70/L. Although, that's what it'd cost someone else not me.

Anyhoo...Back on topic AG will give you infinitely better beer and "can" be cheaper. No matter what... for me worth every penny.


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## praxis178 (23/2/10)

I read this thread yesterday and thought, just how much did it cost me? So I went and added up my equipment cost etc..

Mashing 2x19L stock pots from Big W. Can't remember what I paid, but now they're around the $22mark. (bought them for another reason, had some large crabs to cook)
first leutering tub: 2x20L buckets one with 2mm holes drilled in the bottom the other with a tap and hose fitted $15 inc lids. <good to 18L batches>
Fermenter (30L) $30 but that's the new one I bought last week. <I now have 5 fermenters, 3x20L, 2x30L>

Typical batch has been covered to death, so I won't go into it.

I've since added an old 55L esky with SS false bottom to the kit (free, neighbour was getting rid of the esky, and I already had the SS for the bottom in my scrap pile), plus the tap and hose total cost ~$30 which includes the foam to insulate the lid.

As the old Master-card add woul say $50 for the kit, $30 for the grain, drinking great beer: priceless! :chug:


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## peas_and_corn (23/2/10)

I normally budget about $1.50-$2/L for a batch, if it's a reeeeally high OG and/or high IBU beer then it can push to $3-4/L. Which is certainly worth it for the fun of making AG beer and the resultant product!


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## Gulpa (23/2/10)

This thread got me thinking so I did a quick calcuation. I did a 10% Beligan Dark Strong last year that was easily my most expensive, $95 for 25 litres  (including gas). Still good value considering 330ml of a real belgian dark strong is at least $8 and more likely $10. 

cheers
Andrew.


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## raven19 (23/2/10)

mckenry said:


> quick answer = $1/L
> 
> No scrimping on ingredients either. Yes I am a bulk grain buyer.



+1 here. slightly more or less for big/highly hopped beers or milds respectively.

Jump in and go for it.


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## MarkBastard (23/2/10)

Either way your first AG is going to cost a certain amount.

It gets cheaper if you do bulk buys of grain sacks and bulk buys of hops from the US and all that, but that isn't really pertinent information for someone new to it.

Go to craft brewer, add 4kg of grain to your shopping cart, about $17. Add about $10 for 90g of hops (even if you don't use them all. Now at $27. Add a cheap packet of dry yeast and you're over $30 easy. That's only including the three main ingredients.


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## zebba (23/2/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Plus you get the hobby factor as well. At least this is a productive hobby.


If I take the cost of the ingredients, and subtract the cost of doing something else as enjoyable with my spare time, I reckon I'm coming out well ahead. The hobby factor is the biggest factor to me. I've never been concerned with the money I spend on beer, as ignoring the odd bender I don't drink that much. But I REALLY enjoy things like cooking, so beer making with it's various techniques, knowledge requirements, and imagination (in recipe formulation, use of limited equipment, etc) really rocks my socks. The finished product is just icing on the cake.

But to answer the question... Extract brews I was looking at >$2/litre (and even over $3). Now that I've started working with close-enough-to-all-grain, that has dropped a little. I think my last brew was about $35 for 23lt. And with a mill on the way and with it the ability to buy larger amounts of grain, that will drop again.


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## drsmurto (23/2/10)

Do you have an esky and at least 1 pot 15L or larger?

A kitchen sieve?

It depends on what size batches you want to make but doing half batches or split boils can get you to AG with what you likely already own without spending a cent on equipment. 

Fill in your location so the locals know where about you live and you'll get an invite to a brewday to see it all done.


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## Lilo (23/2/10)

Chappo said:


> I too have a race car and I can tell you for the cost of a new block and say some decent headers you will have more beer than you can poke a checkered flag at. Unlike cars that like to break things more than once with AG brewing, if you buy well and quality gear, the gear will literally last you a life time.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chap Chap




Is that why its in the shed dustin over.......

The Car that is not Sherminator.... It, I note is allways nice and shiny


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## gjhansford (23/2/10)

I actually spend a bit of time a while back creating an Excel Spreadsheet that calculated the cost of the ingredients for making AG brews. Based on buying my ingredients from Ross at Craft Brewer.

Of course it assumes the water is free which in today's world isn't actually true, doesn't include the little extras like yeast nutrients and Irish Moss, nor the gas and electricity or the dispensing gas ... or the equipment cost.

It was just a fun thing to do (that tells you how nerdy I can be) but it was a slow day at work and while it wasn't as good as actually making beer it was beer related.

For what it's worth ... here it is:

View attachment Brew_Cost_Calculator.xlsx


ghhb


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## Peteoz77 (23/2/10)

$1/L is just about right on. If I wasn't spending $6 on Gas, it would be even cheaper. But here's the killer.... I have spent around $3000 on the entire setup. I have 13 kegs, 3 fridges, 6 Perlick taps, 9 fermenters, a big mill, 2 Kettles and a Gas Ring, etc. plus brewing area on the back pergola. Sounds like a lot right?s, 

Well I used to purchase a little over 2 cases of Carlton a week, so I spent roughly $4500 per year on beer. Now I spend less than $20 per week...that's $1040 a year, so I am saving $3500 a year. Paid for a awesome setup with one year's savings

Your results may vary


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## beerDingo (23/2/10)

My last brew cost me around $61 to make 65 litres (or 8.125 slabs of beer). NOT including equipment costs.

This is buying bags of grain(and milling), some imported hops from US, and 1 pack of liquid yeast(with starter). (also used some home grown hops, but wouldn't push it much higher if i didn't). Also added a little extra for misc ingredients (irish moss, water...).

As others have said, it depends on what you are brewing. When I started AG, I was able to get a slab for around $10, but that cost could blow way out to around $40-$50 per slab depending on the ingredients. This was buying all ingredients from the LHBS.

Edit: Although, probably add $10ish for gas.


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## mattmelloy (23/2/10)

I have 1 AG under my belt and I'm starting with 10L batches. It's probably not the cheapest way per litre, but it's got me started with minimal equipment outlay. My theory is, while I'm learning, the smaller the batch, the smaller the f*** up. It should also allow me to experiment with many different recipes in a shorter time. 

Too much beer, too little time/bottles (what a problem  ).


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## bimbo (23/2/10)

I'm with MattMelloy, just started and doing 12Lish batches.
Found the All Grain for 30 bucks and thought i'd give it a go. 20 bucks for a 20L pot from Big W and another 6-7 bucks for a suitable bag and off i go.
I bought enought grain, hops, yeast and other bits for $30 which was enough to make 23L (2x11 or 12L batches) of the infamous DS Golden Ale.
I figured this was if i stuff up big time i am only wasting $15 plus time on each batch and learning along the way.

Cheers
James


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## kuzzy (23/2/10)

I'm in Brissy - I think I just changed it in my profile..........


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## Snow (24/2/10)

I buy my base grain in bulk (incl Marris otter etc) and I just worked out that an average pale ale (eg ESB, APA, CSA, etc) costs me around $23-25 ber 24L batch, including the price of LP gas. I get around 5 uses out of one pack of yeast, which helps. My most costly brew so far is an imperial vanilla bourbon porter, which cost me around $65 for 23L, soon to be surpassed by my BABBs "winter warmer" mash paddle brew - a Russian imperial chocolate vanilla oatmeal stout  

Cheers - Snow.


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## Crusty (24/2/10)

Done some calculations on a single batch of 23 litres, James Squire Golden Ale Clone. I end up with around 20 litres of finished beer after transferring & filtering. $40.38 = $2.02 per litre.
Commercial equivalent $60.00 for 24x345ml bottles = $7.24 per litre.
I can't even drink the commercial stuff anymore. Those poor uneducated soles scoffing down endless litres of megaswill have no idea how bad the commercial stuff is till they taste an All Grain. I've got quite a few converts in my street.

Crusty


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## Boots (24/2/10)

Not sure what ProMash does but Beersmith gives you the total cost of ingredients for each batch (assuming you enter the relevant information). I just did my first batch in bloody ages and the price for a 35L batch worked out at $55ish. That was with no bulk buys at all, 65% efficiency with a few diff malts on a 1048 SG batch with about 140g of hops (an all ekg ale). Wyeast smack pack etc. 

Ignoring gas and sundries such as sanitiser it still comes in at $1.68/L and it was done very inefficiently (being my first brew in years I left a heap of sugars behind in the mash tun) with no regard to cost.

Doing an all base malt brew with high AA bittering and 30g of a noble or aroma hop at the end must work to be bloody cheap.


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## sid (26/2/10)

mine works out around $1.30 a 750ml bottle.....................But in my tightness to save a $ and still make a good beer I will try to roast my own grain and I should drop that under a $1............hopefully


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## State of the Mind (26/2/10)

Yeah, I found that the ingridients (so long as you are not using expensive import malts) were cheaper when AG brewing than when using malt extract.


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## kuzzy (26/2/10)

Thanks for that. As I am time poor I will be doing double batches - so the set up costs providing I don't get to carried away (pick up cheap evilbay etc) should be no major issue.


40L electic urn for heating the strike water?

50L eskie should be big enough with a manifold for mashing?

And for the boil either a 50L keg - brought legit, or a 60 to 80L pot with gas heating - what would one suggest?

Weld up a three level platform so it all drains by itself?

Does this sound good - or should I keep looking / asking? 

New to all of AG, so sorry if I ask dumb questions.

Cheer,

Kuzzy


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## jyo (27/2/10)

kuzzy said:


> Thanks for that. As I am time poor I will be doing double batches - so the set up costs providing I don't get to carried away (pick up cheap evilbay etc) should be no major issue.
> 
> 
> 40L electic urn for heating the strike water?
> ...



Do you plan to batch or fly sparge? I may be ( and often am) wrong, but you won't have enough room in a 50 litre esky to batch sparge double batches.


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## warra48 (27/2/10)

jyo said:


> Do you plan to batch or fly sparge? I may be ( and often am) wrong, but you won't have enough room in a 50 litre esky to batch sparge double batches.



There will be just enough room if you do a mash out and two batch sparges.

I use a 25 litre cooler for a mash tun, and it is big enough for a 23 litre batch up to about 1.060 OG. Anything bigger, and I have to downsize the batch.

If you wish to do double batches, you would be better to look at a larger than 50 litre mashtun, to give you flexibility and ease of use. 

Don't know about fly sparging, have never done it.


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## shawnheiderich (27/2/10)

Bigger Kettle for true (46L) double batches.

Shawn


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## Bribie G (27/2/10)

By the time you buy a keggle, a burner, a gas supply, a 50l esky etc you could just about go 2 urns and do parallel BIAB batches with very little extra effort, and can even do side by sides with slightly different ingredients if you like experimenting.

Edit: Most of a brew day consists of sitting around waiting for things to happen (90min mash 90 min boil) with mad bursts of manic activity, so by starting a second brew 20 minutes later than the first one, you end up with more manic activity, but only add 20 mins to the brew day itself. Give me the manic


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## Nick JD (27/2/10)

I'm going to time the actual "hands on" length of brewing this afternoon. I don't think it's more than about 30 minutes.


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## Moad (19/2/13)

Time is the biggest factor, even if just hanging around the area to keep an eye on thins... I am down to 5 hours for double batch BIAB including prep and cleaning. This will drop by 30 minutes with a high pressure reg for my italian spiral, not that I am worried about the time, I am still new to brewing so it is all exciting and I hope that doesn't change.

I am averaging $80 per double batch (granted i have only done 3) with ingredients, LPG for the burner and electricty for the fermenting fridge.

All equipment I have just written off as a hobby investment, much cheaper than my other hobbies such as paintball.

I look at it as $20 a case but the quality is twice that of a $40 case of extra dry so you are getting 4 times the value of buying that crap!


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## Cocko (19/2/13)

Thread dig up of the day!

Good additional post though...

:icon_cheers:


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## stux (19/2/13)

mckenry said:


> quick answer = $1/L
> 
> No scrimping on ingredients either. Yes I am a bulk grain buyer.


Pretty much what I work on.

Buy hops and malt in bulk. Split yeasts. Make starters from kettle trub.

Triple batches save on gas, and misc losses


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## Moad (19/2/13)

OOPS! Sorry about that...I think I was searching how to re use yeast and must have re used the thread instead


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## Cocko (19/2/13)

Moad said:


> OOPS! Sorry about that...I think I was searching how to re use yeast and must have re used the thread instead


Don't be sorry to be using search and/or making a nice addition to a thread, how ever old it is...

Was just poking the ribs mate.

:icon_cheers:


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## Moad (19/2/13)

No wonder you got over 4000 posts Cocko, poking fun at all the new guys

:beer:


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## Truman42 (19/2/13)

Yeh..much better to revive an old one than start a new one. You will learn that soon enough...As I did.... h34r:


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## bum (19/2/13)

Truman said:


> As I did.... h34r:


Lucky that emoticon is there or else I'd think you were serious.


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## Cocko (19/2/13)

Moad said:


> No wonder you got over 4000 posts Cocko, poking fun at all the new guys
> 
> :beer:



More so the_ old_ guys h34r:

And again, I thought your post was a good addition.

:icon_cheers:


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## bum (19/2/13)

Cocko said:


> More so the_ old_ guys h34r:


I foresee vaginal discomfort.

The guy is right though. Stop posting, bully! There's only a finite number of posts that can be counted and you're wasting them.


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## Cocko (19/2/13)

I have never wasted a post in my life!


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## Cocko (19/2/13)

Ever.


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## yum beer (19/2/13)

Does saying nothing in relation to the post count as a wasted post.


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## yum beer (19/2/13)

I remember being ran off the road once to avoid a head-on and cleaning up a white roo....or 4

was that a wasted post?


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## yum beer (19/2/13)

Anyway I spend about $30 on each batch including postage and splitting liquid yeasts at least twice.

Most I have spent was about $60 on a Bourbon Barrel Scottish Ale........saved me over $140 on buying the commercial stuff.


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## Maheel (19/2/13)

Nick JD said:


> I'm going to time the actual "hands on" length of brewing this afternoon. I don't think it's more than about 30 minutes.


taken you about 3 yrs to finish the brew.....

i ask for CB gift vouchers and i reckon this year is a FREE BEER YEAR thanks to my "sponsors" :beer:


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## sponge (20/2/13)

yum beer said:


> Does saying nothing in relation to the post count as a wasted post.


Reminds me of when Bribie was counting down to the 11,111 mark :lol:


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (20/2/13)

Anyone who saw my 'old' brewery (or the thread for the 2 pot stovetop method) would know how cheap the brewery was. 2 big w pots, the esky I already had, 2 cheap buckets & a tap from bunnings.

My 2nd place getter at QABC was a Golden Strong Lager (done with an ale yeast) and off memory cost about $1 per litre for a high abv% high grav beer.

So both cost of equipment and cost of ingredients are never an excuse to not make AG beer, and more importantly good beer, as judged by your peers.

Now, as to what I'm going to do, now I'm in tassie....


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## citizensnips (20/2/13)

Moad said:


> I look at it as $20 a case but the quality is twice that of a $40 case of extra dry so you are getting 4 times the value of buying that crap!


Im pretty much the same as you Moad. My 27L batches cost about $60 each, working out to about $19 a case, I doI pay $20 in shipping everytime from craftbrewer becasue I'm in Melbourne. Not that I'm complaining, its my choice and I love the service there. But yeah the quality and enjoyment you get out of it is easily worth it, not to mention your still saving money drinking great beer.


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## joshF (20/2/13)

Probably varies a few bucks here and there, depending on grace prices at your LHBS. An average batch costs me about $32 for grain, $12 for hops that i can probably get 2 batches from, and yeast is pretty much $6 for dry or double it for liquid. All up around $45 for a 24L batch that gets you close to 3 'cartons worth'.

The cost savings compared to purchased cartons or pub beer is huge (ignoring all-grain equipment costs  ). Plus at the end of the day, why go to the pub if you can bring the pub to you.


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## sponge (20/2/13)

For a single batch of an APA (for example, since it has a few hops in there), I normally look at around $2/kg grain ($10 total), $3-4 for hops, and $3 for liquid yeast (for say 3 generations of a smack pack). Throw on a few $'s each for gas and electricity (gas for kettle, element for HLT, fridge for fermenting) and you've got yourself to $1/L. Might go up to $1.50-$2/L for a 'bigger' beer.

Definitely helps buying grain and hops in bulk, and re-using liquid yeast.

I don't work on cost though, I brew because I love the process and end results.



Always helps showing the minister of finance those figures if need be..


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## Diesel80 (20/2/13)

A/G is dear when you use Liquid yeast, only if you don't
A) split a pack and grow it up
B) repitch
C) combination of A&B

$14 a pack now lasts me until i am bored of using it. So about $2/brew.

Without trying very hard to keep costs down i can make a 27L of 1.045 wort / 21 L packaged beer (yep fair bit of wastage i know) for $25 or near enough including Gas / Elec.
This is working on a 25Kg bag of grain costing $80 here in Perth, though it varies in reality from $65 to $85 depending on what you need.

This is not a 150g / batch APA though. Heavily hopped beers do cost more.

So for ingredients I agree about $1.0 - $1.20 /L basic single batch,

BUT

add in the 5 hours of time spent on each batch (includes tending to fermentation, making starters, brewing and kegging) at my hourly rate and it is definately cheaper to buy it from BWS or the local Thieving Baron.

Cheers,
D80


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## sponge (20/2/13)

Diesel80 said:


> add in the 5 hours of time spent on each batch (includes tending to fermentation, making starters, brewing and kegging) at my hourly rate and it is definately cheaper to buy it from BWS or the local Thieving Baron.


That's all part of the enjoyment though. It's not just the (material) cost savings and end result that I enjoy about brewing, its the process and involvement that comes with it also.


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## JDW81 (20/2/13)

eddy22 said:


> , I doI pay $20 in shipping everytime from craftbrewer becasue I'm in Melbourne.


why don't you get your stuff from G&G? Not trying to take business away from ross (I've bought stuff from him before and service was excellent), but to me it just seems like a waste of money to get stuff shipped from Brissy when you can get it in Melbourne.


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## Nibbo (20/2/13)

Was speaking to a mates brother at the Geelong Beer Fest the other week and he started asking about my home brew.
"How much does it cost a batch to make" he says.
"On average, $1 a litre give or take"i says.
"Gee's that dear" He says again...
"Ummmm, OK. How much you usually pay for a pint at a pub" I says to him
" Yeah, I spose" was the response.

Had his cynic shoes on that day.

I'm stoked with a $1 a litre...


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## Diesel80 (20/2/13)

sponge said:


> That's all part of the enjoyment though. It's not just the (material) cost savings and end result that I enjoy about brewing, its the process and involvement that comes with it also.


It's an "Opportunity Cost", thus must be considered.
However it is a cost I would happily pay week in, week out 

Cheers,
D80


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## lmccrone (20/2/13)

It seems the cost question has been well and truly dealt with but can I just add that I made the switch from brewing from a kit about 12 months ago and the beer is much, much better. I'm not sure why that is, but I did a brew from a can, along with some specialty grain, the other day and it was just not as good as one done completely from scratch.

Go for it


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## mikec (20/2/13)

I have grain, hops and yeast already so my next few brews will cost me NOTHING!


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## Nick JD (20/2/13)

This one costs $6.50 for 20L or 33c a liter.

That's $3 a carton of stubbies.


*XXXX Silver*
Australian Light Lager

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 2.750
Total Hops (g): 17.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.035 (°P): 8.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.009 (°P): 2.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 3.44 %
Colour (SRM): 3.8 (EBC): 7.5
Bitterness (IBU): 14.7 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
2.700 kg Pale Ale Malt (98.18%)
0.050 kg Caramalt (1.82%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
17.0 g Cluster Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 14°C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## warra48 (20/2/13)

Real cost about $1 a longneck on average.

BeerSmith costs my beer at $0.00, nil, zilch, zip, nada, nothing, gratis, free......
How so?
Simple, set your ingredient costs in BeerSmith to $0.00.


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## joshF (20/2/13)

Definitely going to put all my costs in beersmith at $0.00 to show the girlfriend....

Ask her how much her most recent pair of shoes cost and all I hear is "Not much, they were on sale" yet she wants to know every cent that gets spent on beer. Somethings not right here..... :lol:


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (20/2/13)

joshF said:


> Definitely going to put all my costs in beersmith at $0.00 to show the girlfriend....
> 
> Ask her how much her most recent pair of shoes cost and all I hear is "Not much, they were on sale" yet she wants to know every cent that gets spent on beer. Somethings not right here..... :lol:


Yep, your girlfriend wears the pants without even wearing the ring


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## hsb (20/2/13)

Diesel80 said:


> 5 hours of time spent on each batch (includes tending to fermentation, making starters, brewing and kegging) at my hourly rate


This is all time you aren't spending money on anything else though. Assuming you aren't sat watching the mash whilst buying bespoke morris dancing equipment online of course.
My time is free, my brewing is pro bono work.


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## Nick JD (20/2/13)

I enjoy brewing. Found K&K a chore because there was no "art" in it - no creativity, and no variation.

Whereas with AG you tweak and you get to use new ingredients and new recipes all the time.

Last week I used Victory malt for the first time, and 1272 and Waimea.

It's quite exciting getting a new batch of ingredients and experimenting. Then there's decoctions and infusing and ramping up and starters that are like a little yeast experiement on the kitchen bench. Fire, YA little BITCHES!

And then there's the best bit: the two hours (1 during the mash and 1 during the boil) where you get to watch sport or a movie or play xbox and do some hop chroming.

And you're actually _making beer_ like breweries do. Something very impersonal in emptying ingredients into a fermenter and adding some water.


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## joshF (20/2/13)

Gotta agree Nick.
Don't know what it is, but brewing triggers something in all of us i'm sure.

I drove 20kms from work the other day during shitty lunchtime traffic just to pick up a $4.50 packet of yeast then drove 20kms back and the traffic didn't phase me, yet the 15 minute drive home from work in decent traffic is a pain in arse!!! Funny how beer makes the brain prioritise things :drinks: 
Oh and gametime, 75 minute mash gives me ample time to go nuts on Call of Duty. Another 30 minutes gametime for the sparge, 60 for boil etc. Needless to say, not much cleaning gets done on saturdays at my joint. Just a whole lot of couch surfing and 'real' beer making.


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## chefeffect (20/2/13)

Just saw 10kg bags of long grain rice at ALDI for $10, now that's gotta bring the cost down.


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## bignath (20/2/13)

Nick JD said:


> And then there's the best bit: the two hours (1 during the mash and 1 during the boil) where you get to watch sport or a movie or play xbox and_* do some hop chroming.*_


HAHA! It's not a brewday unless you do heaps of that...


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