# A method for harvesting weak bottle conditioned yeast



## Don Runk (1/10/13)

I have cultured a heap over the last year and found a method that has had a 100% success rate for me on all beers i've done it with. Even imported beers that have been kept in god only knows what conditions for god knows how long. And using only one stubby not a full six pack.

It may be dumb luck i’ve never had a failure this way but thought this might help some people or at least give them a starting point. When i first started looking all i found was info on coopers methods which never worked out well for me on imported beers.

keep bottle undisturbed in fridge for 2 days i.e not in door of fridge.

boil 100ml water 10g DME and a pinch of yeast nutrient (or a pinch of dry yeast, even bakers yeast works) for 10mins w/lid on or foil cover.
cool starter (w/lid on) in water bath etc.until room temp.

Spray sanitize beer bottle and opener. Open and GENTLY pour beer into a glass leaving 2 fingers worth in the bottle (3cm). Sanitize neck and flame with lighter if possible before and after pouring. cover with sanitized foil immediately and allow to slowly come to room temp.

once beer and starter wort are room temp spray/flame everything again and pour wort into beer bottle ONLY up to four fingers (6cm) and discard the remainder of the starter wort. Adding too much starter at this stage will only stress the yeast further. Cover the beer bottle again with foil and give a good swirl to aerate and suspend the yeast. Rubber band the foil on if you wish.

Leave bottle somewhere warmish to promote growth (but obviously not too warm). I leave mine on top of a tropical fish tank @23c. Give it a swirl as often as you can.

After 24h for a local beer or 48-72hrs for an imported /stressed beer i will then step up to 1litre.

same again but 1000ml water 100g DME with a pinch of nutrient boiled and cooled to room temp then add the WHOLE beer bottle contents to that starter and put on the stirplate.

once that’s done in 24-36hrs you should have around (approx) 150 Billion cells which can be a little low for a single batch but it’s still more cells than you’ll find in a dry packet.

It's worked out well for me. *off to buy another dead guy ale*


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## syl (1/10/13)

Doesn't dead guy cost as much as a Wyeast pack?


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## Don Runk (1/10/13)

but it does come with deadguy in the bottle also!

can you even get pacman in a smackpack here?


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## syl (1/10/13)

Don Runk said:


> but it does come with deadguy in the bottle also!
> 
> can you even get pacman in a smackpack here?


Yeah. Deadguy is my favourite beer in the world! I was just being a pain!


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## heyhey (1/10/13)

Excuse my dumb question, but since you're using a "pinch of dry yeast, even bakers yeast", couldn't you be growing the dry/bakers yeast?


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## syl (1/10/13)

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/default.asp?CID=9 <-- They get it in!


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## fletcher (1/10/13)

heyhey said:


> Excuse my dumb question, but since you're using a "pinch of dry yeast, even bakers yeast", couldn't you be growing the dry/bakers yeast?


no, this goes into the boil which kills it; making the dry or baker's yeast a nutrient for the yeast you're trying to culture up

edit: spelling


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## Don Runk (1/10/13)

syl said:


> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/default.asp?CID=9 <-- They get it in!


Holy crap!! i bet they get one shipment a year consisting of three packs though. i always thought it was hard to get even in the states!?


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## Don Runk (1/10/13)

I know culturing can be a bit of a "why bother" at times but it can be easier than going to the brew shop if you have a good bottle-o nearby.

i cultured up some Sierra Navada Pale Ale once which is supposed to be basically us-05 (a real "why bother") but it definitely did a better job than 05 and flocced more.

then again perhaps it was like beer - the one you make yourself tastes better. bah who knows? it's fun anyhow.


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## syl (1/10/13)

Don Runk said:


> Holy crap!! i bet they get one shipment a year consisting of three packs though. i always thought it was hard to get even in the states!?


It's not that hard to get, you would have to order and wait for CB to place their next order for sure. Also only available about one quarter of the year.


Hmmmm.... where's a bottle shop with Dead Guy near me??? Going to do a dead guy in a couple of months.


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## Don Runk (1/10/13)

syl said:


> Hmmmm.... where's a bottle shop with Dead Guy near me??? Going to do a dead guy in a couple of months.



slow beer or harvest wine & liquour?


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## syl (1/10/13)

Yeah, Slow Beer looks the fits. Will step it a bunch of times for a 70L batch of dead guy.... going to be a very pissy month!


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## Liam_snorkel (1/10/13)

it's been popping up at some Dan Murphy's.


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## ben_sa (1/10/13)

You put the "pinch of dry yeast, even bakers yeast" in whilst boiling, thus, killing it instantly, and acting as nutrient 

edit: Gee i left the page open without posting lol... quick and the dead around here"


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## Yob (1/10/13)

That first step could even be a 1020 wort, lower gravities are less stressful on the yeast, especially if the health is an unknown.

Cheers


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## MaltyHops (1/10/13)

syl said:


> Hmmmm.... where's a bottle shop with Dead Guy near me??? Going to do a dead guy in a couple of months.


Anyone else find this a bit ... disturbing? h34r:


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## Don Runk (1/10/13)

Yob said:


> That first step could even be a 1020 wort, lower gravities are less stressful on the yeast, especially if the health is an unknown.
> 
> Cheers


I have thaught about that before also.
Not sure if adding "one finger" of 1.040 or "two fingers" of 1.020 would work out essentially the same for the yeast?

as in the same amounts of sugars but different dilutions?


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## pat_00 (1/10/13)

Different strokes......


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## philmud (1/10/13)

syl said:


> It's not that hard to get, you would have to order and wait for CB to place their next order for sure. Also only available about one quarter of the year.
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.... where's a bottle shop with Dead Guy near me??? Going to do a dead guy in a couple of months.


Moonee Ponds Dans has Dead Guy ATM, that's closer than Richmond if you're in Brunswick


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## niels (10/10/13)

I almost use the same technique, but instead of making a bit of starter wort to fill up the bottle I simply open up a small box of apple juice (20 cl) and pour that in the bottle. I give it a good swirl, put a balloon over the "neck" and set it on top of my set top box (which is always in de low 30°C).

In most cases the balloon will be erected after 24~36 hours and I will pour it into an erlenmeyer with starter wort and put it on the stirr plate.

Never had a failure except for one time I was growing bacteria instead of yeast (it smelled like the worst cheese you can imagine!).

Niels


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## fletcher (10/10/13)

niels said:


> I almost use the same technique, but instead of making a bit of starter wort to fill up the bottle I simply open up a small box of apple juice (20 cl) and pour that in the bottle. I give it a good swirl, put a balloon over the "neck" and set it on top of my set top box (which is always in de low 30°C).
> 
> In most cases the balloon will be erected after 24~36 hours and I will pour it into an erlenmeyer with starter wort and put it on the stirr plate.
> 
> ...


any reason, apart from ease, for using apple juice rather than wort?


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## niels (10/10/13)

fletcher said:


> any reason, apart from ease, for using apple juice rather than wort?


It is a common usage in Belgium/The Netherlands.

Pros:
1) very easy sugars to get the yeast going
2) apple juice is about the right gravity
3) boxed apple juice is sterile
4) quick and easy

Except for reason 1, they are all because of the ease of use. If you sanitize the scissors (flame/alcohol) and the little juice box, you're ready to go in minutes. You could do this "off site" 
Sometimes I drink a beer late at night and have am impulse decision to harvest the yeast. This way it can be done almost every time if I didn't ran out of juice boxes.

Niels


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## lael (11/10/13)

Brilliant thread! Niels, are you just using any old normal balloon?



niels said:


> I almost use the same technique, but instead of making a bit of starter wort to fill up the bottle I simply open up a small box of apple juice (20 cl) and pour that in the bottle. I give it a good swirl, put a balloon over the "neck" and set it on top of my set top box (which is always in de low 30°C).
> 
> In most cases the balloon will be erected after 24~36 hours and I will pour it into an erlenmeyer with starter wort and put it on the stirr plate.
> 
> ...


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## niels (11/10/13)

A picture says it all:






I sterialize the balloon by soaking it in sanitizer.

Niels



lael said:


> Brilliant thread! Niels, are you just using any old normal balloon?


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## Liam_snorkel (11/10/13)

It's a boy!


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## Pickaxe (11/10/13)

Its a butt plug!


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## Westo (24/10/13)

Sorry for the newbie questions to follow but im about to try this method for the first time as i have always used packet yeast without an issue, but want to now expand on my brewing knowledge(or lack of it) and just want to know :

1. After steping up to the 1 Ltr how long do you leave it there before brewday and can this be storred in the fridge?

2. If i dont have a stirplate will that matter? or is there another option?

3. do i pour this straight into the fermenter or is there another process first?

4. how much of the 1 Ltr do you add to a single batch(20 - 23ltrs in ferementer)?

cheers

Westo


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## Westo (30/10/13)

anyone able to help out?


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## niels (30/10/13)

Westo said:


> Sorry for the newbie questions to follow but im about to try this method for the first time as i have always used packet yeast without an issue, but want to now expand on my brewing knowledge(or lack of it) and just want to know :
> 
> 1. After steping up to the 1 Ltr how long do you leave it there before brewday and can this be storred in the fridge?
> 
> ...


1) I store my yeast starters in the fridge for a few days (2~3) and pull it out the morning of brewing. The yeast will be sunk to the bottom of the flask and I pour of the young beer on top of it. I then pour about 250~300ml of (room temperature) wort (SG 1040) onto it. Swirl is gently and put an air lock on it. When it's time to pitch the yeast the starter is fully active and is ready to eat those sugars!
2) If you have no stir plate, simply shake/swirl the vessel every time you pass it. This will help with aeriation too.
3) See my answer to point 1. But I want to repeat this: pour off the young beer from your starter! I know a lot of people don't do it, but taste it and you know why you don't want that in your beer! The little bit of wort I added on the morning of the brew day will be added to the fresh wort, of course. You need some liquid to bring the yeast back in suspension and pour it handy.
4) I take about 10% as a rule of thumb. So for a 20L batch I make a starter of about 2L.

Hope this helps.

Smell your yeast starter before using. The one I wanted to use last Sunday smelled a bit funny (old cheese) and I didn't use it after all. I used some packets of US-05 instead. Better safe than sorry.

Niels

PS: Every brewer has his/her own way of doing things. Always try the method you think you feel comfortable with and keep some dry yeasts packs in your fridge for backup. There is no ONE way to do it, there is only YOUR way (as long as it is sterile of course)!


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## lael (30/10/13)

Westo said:


> Sorry for the newbie questions to follow but im about to try this method for the first time as i have always used packet yeast without an issue, but want to now expand on my brewing knowledge(or lack of it) and just want to know :
> 
> 1. After steping up to the 1 Ltr how long do you leave it there before brewday and can this be storred in the fridge?
> 
> ...


1. Opinion varies - but people normally either: crash chill (put in fridge) at 'high krausen' - when you get a nice fluffy layer of yeast. or after it has fermented out (in a starter - about 3 days).
2. Stirplate = large yeast growth. For harvesting - yeah, it's worth it.
3. crash chill 24-36 hrs before. 5 hours before - pull it out of fridge, pour off most of the wort on top, without losing the pale yeast sitting on the bottom of the flask/ container. swirl the remainder and let it warm back up to room temp before pitching. as per normal... keep everything sanitary
4. pitch the slurry, not the wort from the starter.

edit: beat by niels! - same method it sounds like.


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## Don Runk (31/10/13)

Westo said:


> Sorry for the newbie questions to follow but im about to try this method for the first time as i have always used packet yeast without an issue, but want to now expand on my brewing knowledge(or lack of it) and just want to know :
> 
> 1. After steping up to the 1 Ltr how long do you leave it there before brewday and can this be storred in the fridge?
> 
> ...


dunno what's been happening with email alerts but just got it.
my advise (but i have been called a fool by many so take my advise with a grain of chook shit but it works for me)

1- as long as needed but the longer you wait the more the viability goes down. keeping in fridge will keep viability higher longer than on the shelf.

2- without a stirplate you will get less growth. unfortunately alot less. so the more you can stir it the better. check out - http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ and play with the differences between stirplate and shaking.

3- i have (and many others) poured the whole starter in without any noticeable negative taste. But if you can chill the starter and let the yeast settle then pour off the "beer" leaving only enough to stir it up and add only that. up to you but i dont bother.

4- see my original post and check out the calc i linked above about cell counts. i cant talk for a single batch as i dont do them but 1 litre "feels" like enough to me without doing the calc.

sorry i didn't get the email reminder the topic was still active or i would've responded.


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## Westo (31/10/13)

thanks guys looking forward to giving it a try.




Don Runk said:


> sorry i didn't get the email reminder the topic was still active or i would've responded.


Its all good :beerbang:


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## sticksy (16/12/13)

this has worked well for me first go! I want to try a dead guy ale next, get some Pacman.

what is everyone's favourite beer to harvest from?


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## Don Runk (17/12/13)

Syicksy so glad it worked for you. It opens up a whole new world pacman is great and try sierra nevada hefeweizen also!


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## niels (17/12/13)

sticksy said:


> this has worked well for me first go! I want to try a dead guy ale next, get some Pacman.
> 
> what is everyone's favourite beer to harvest from?


Westmalle (if you can get it) is pretty easy to harvest and is a very nice yeast! Also: Chimay, Rochefort and La Chouffe.

Niels


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