# K&k Kilkenny Clone?



## jerrycashman (9/4/09)

HI guys,

Easter weekend is here, the weather is lovely and cool (18c in the laundry at home)... perfect brewing !

Does anyone know if I can do a Kilkenny clone with straight K&K? If so, which kit?

cheers. Jerry

Jerry Cashman
Canberra.


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## gundaroo (9/4/09)

morgans royal oak amber ale+ better amber ale(blend from lhbs at kambah) ,if thats any help.

i do this one alot and find its pretty close,

happy easter


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## jerrycashman (9/4/09)

gundaroo said:


> morgans royal oak amber ale+ better amber ale(blend from lhbs at kambah) ,if thats any help.
> 
> i do this one alot and find its pretty close,
> 
> happy easter



Thanks very much Gundaroo... what is the head like? Always wondered how to aproximate the head those little CO2 widgets give you when homebrewing...

cheers. Jerry


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## Bribie G (9/4/09)

To get a tight creamy head, go to the local chemist dressed really nicely and buy a hypodermic syringe (without needle of course). I've got a couple of 30ml jobs. 

Suck up about 10 ml out of the beer glass and squirt it forcibly back into the beer so it whooshes right down to the bottom of the glass. Instant 'draught guinness' effect that settles out to a tight head. However start off very cautiously till you get the hang of the method otherwise you will end up with some gushers.


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## db73 (6/5/09)

I have put down a morgans royal oak amber ale + 1kg Kilkenny style beer converter (dextrose, malt, hops and maltodextrin) from Brewers world. Anyone tried this? I will be keen to see how it turns out.

Dave


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## Neill (7/5/09)

I was gunna do one of these

Royal Oak amber ale goo
1.5kg amber LME
300g dex
Nottingham yeast @ 15 degrees


aiming for roughly english style amber ale - does anyone recommend adding a hop boil in to this? just wanting a smooth drinking amber ale, but unsure if i'll need more hopping. thoughts?


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

Neill said:


> I was gunna do one of these
> 
> Royal Oak amber ale goo
> 1.5kg amber LME
> ...


Looks good I would try an EKG hop tea and maybe some dry hopped. It will freshen up the hops flavour of the kit a bit. I would up the ferment temp to 16C I found notto wanted to keep having a nap at 15C. Also why not 500gr of LDME instead of the Dex?
My 2c FWIW.

Cheers

Chappo


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## Neill (7/5/09)

Good advice chappo, i have never used this kit before so was a bit unsure of the hop levels in the kit. what sort of boil times and hop weight do you reckon? i was thinking 20g for 20 min, 10g for 10 min and 10g dry hopped? that might be overkill though. 

I would use LME but i don't want to split a can - i find it easier to dole out a little extra dex to up the sugar content. i'm very lazy 

thanks for the tip on the notto, first time i've used it. 16 degrees sounds good.


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## np1962 (7/5/09)

Neill said:


> Good advice chappo, i have never used this kit before so was a bit unsure of the hop levels in the kit. what sort of boil times and hop weight do you reckon? i was thinking 20g for 20 min, 10g for 10 min and 10g dry hopped? that might be overkill though.
> 
> I would use LME but i don't want to split a can - i find it easier to dole out a little extra dex to up the sugar content. i'm very lazy
> 
> thanks for the tip on the notto, first time i've used it. 16 degrees sounds good.




Neill,
I assume Chappo was referring to Light DRY Malt Extract

Nige


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## Neill (7/5/09)

You're spot on nige, well picked up. I should mention that i'm actually using a 50/50 mix of dex and Light Dry Malt Extract too. must have had a few too many beers before i posted that!


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

Neill said:


> snip...i was thinking 20g for 20 min, 10g for 10 min and 10g dry hopped? that might be overkill though.
> ....


+1 to Nige LDME

I would go 20gr for 20mins, 7gr at flame out and 10gr Dry hop. You could drop the dry hop if you didn't want to go overkill I'm a bit of hophead but certainly do the 20 and flame out to boost the kit. The kit will have enough bittering to carry itself.

It will give ya flavour and aroma that the kits just won't give you.

Cheers

Chappo


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## bradsbrew (7/5/09)

Chappo said:


> +1 to Nige LDME
> 
> I would go 20gr for 20mins, 7gr at flame out and 10gr Dry hop. You could drop the dry hop if you didn't want to go overkill I'm a bit of hophead but certainly do the 20 and flame out to boost the kit. The kit will have enough bittering to carry itself.
> 
> ...



Yep as Chappo said 20g of EKG @20 but 10g of Fuggles and 5 of styrian goldings at flame out is also a good option if ya dont want to do the dry hop. IMO

Brad


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## Neill (7/5/09)

is EKG definately the hop to use for this style? i *think* the LHBS has this type but am unsure. anything else that's common i could go with? i know they have chinook, cascade, fuggles, centennial and a few others.

edit: don't think i can afford 3 different hop styles for one brew, would like to stick with just one if possible


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

Neill said:


> is EKG definately the hop to use for this style? i *think* the LHBS has this type but am unsure. anything else that's common i could go with? i know they have chinook, cascade, fuggles, centennial and a few others.
> 
> edit: don't think i can afford 3 different hop styles for one brew, would like to stick with just one if possible




Ya could go the fuggles the "C" hops are more american style

Chappo


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## bradsbrew (7/5/09)

If its the brewcraft hops in the 50g bags I think they call it goldings which would be fine to use as would be Fuggles. You can always use left overs for the next brew as these hops will fit into many different brews. 

Cheers Brad


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## Neill (7/5/09)

my local is a grain and grape, he sells 40g packs which seem to be just right for what i usually do (20 + 10 + 10 dry)

pretty sure he has EKG, if not i'll go the fuggles. cheers gents!


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## KGB (8/5/09)

Jerry Cashman said:


> Thanks very much Gundaroo... what is the head like? Always wondered how to aproximate the head those little CO2 widgets give you when homebrewing...
> 
> cheers. Jerry



I always thought they were a *nitrogenated* widget? You can get a CO2/nitrogen gas mix if you get really keen. The nitrogen is what gives you the denser, creamier head.


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## Bribie G (8/5/09)

I made a Morgans Royal Oak last July and added some extra fuggles. It turned out very bitter to my taste, I think they put quite a lot of isohop into it - like a lot of the Morgans kits - so I would personally only put in late aroma hops.


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## Neill (9/5/09)

bloody hell, went to the LHBS this morning and he was out of fuggles AND EKG. So i picked up some Pride of ringwood, some centennial and some nelson sauvin

what do you guys recommend i do with this lot? i was just going to do POR, 20g @15 mins, 10g at flameout, 10g dry hopped, in conjunction with the amber ale kit and 1.5kg LME

thoughts?

i gather the nelson and centennial wouldn't be too suited to this style - i am going to do some random IPA style things with them later on.


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## DKS (9/5/09)

Neill said:


> bloody hell, went to the LHBS this morning and he was out of fuggles AND EKG. So i picked up some Pride of ringwood, some centennial and some nelson sauvin
> 
> what do you guys recommend i do with this lot? i was just going to do POR, 20g @15 mins, 10g at flameout, 10g dry hopped, in conjunction with the amber ale kit and 1.5kg LME
> 
> ...



Personal choice of course, but for what its worth Id get the hops you want for this brew even put down something else in the mean time. Id steer clear of POR altogether, I think the Centennel is more for American styles and is similar to Cascade I think. As for the Nelson sauvin I havent used so maybe wait untill you can gather more info. Sorry, but these just dont sound right for that kit. I could be wrong. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


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## chappo1970 (9/5/09)

+1 DKS

Unfortunately the hops you've got ya yourself aren't really going suit your brew. Nelson Sauvin throws wine/grape kinda flavours that I am finding hard to chew in ya brew, yeah? Same with Centennial. POR maybe the one when I think about it? Spicy and fruity would suit the style? Nothing wrong with POR IMO and is unfortunately an Aussie hop that cops some bad flak for no real reason.

If you need to brew I would use the POR.


Chappo


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## Stewie78 (15/5/09)

Here is how I make my Kilkenny style. 

Munton's Yorkshire Bitter
500g Dark Dry Malt
500g Dextrose
7.5g Goldings
7.5g Fuggles
Make only 20 litres

I have this on tap all the time. I make up a double batch every 10-14 days and everyone enjoys a glass or 10.


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## Ade42 (20/6/09)

I want to make a Nice drop of this myself, Went into my lhbs (not thaat local) and left with a armfull of gear (and some mighty good advice) Hear me out and help me out as well!

Ok 
Morgan's Royal Oak Amber Ale
1kg LDM
Finishing Hops Tettnanger
Finisging Hops Goldings

and a Mysterious package of "Lloyds Lager Booster" 100g

They Recomend a Temp of 26 and seeing Its now coldish, They sold me a "Brew Cellar" Premium Ale Yest, to use instead of the tin yeast.. 


Instructions
Mix powdered malt in about 2L of warm water, and bring to a Gentle simmer. Once the simmer is establishged put in the Tettnanger hops and continue the simmer for about 10 mins, Remove from heat and add the bad of Goldings hops and give a quick stir, Enouch to wet them, Tip the contents of the sausepan into your fermenter. Add Morgans Amber ale and Lloyd's Lager booster, Top up to 23L 
Maintain the temp to 26 degrees.

Ok how does that sound? thats the intructions i was given, and they suggested I change the yeast if not maintaing a 26 degree temp.

any advice?


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## MHB (20/6/09)

Wheeler has a recipe for Kilkenny, I usually find him to be pretty much on the money.
Bittering - Challenger and Northdown to about 30 IBU
Taste at 10 minutes - Fuggle 10g
Flame out/aroma - Golding 10g

Kilkenny is ~30 EBC, I would defiantly use amber LME as the ROA and Morgan's Amber will give you about 32 EBC, very close match and tasty!

MHB

Of course, you know the joke about Kilkenny? "_Traditional Irish Red Ale invented by Smithwick in 1986_" still tasty
m


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## manticle (20/6/09)

Ade42 said:


> I want to make a Nice drop of this myself, Went into my lhbs (not thaat local) and left with a armfull of gear (and some mighty good advice) Hear me out and help me out as well!
> 
> Ok
> Morgan's Royal Oak Amber Ale
> ...




Interested to know why they sold you a lager booster for an ale. Presumably it's just something that aids body and head retention.

26 sounds a bit high (I'd aim for 20-22) but the brew cellar ale yeast will work fine below that temp. Most of my brews currently are made with brew cellar english ale, premium ale or american ale. I'm pretty sure they are the same strains as safale 04, 05 etc.

Tettnanger also sounds odd for an irish ale but the end result should be good beer so why worry?


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## Neill (21/6/09)

I've just tasted one of the ones that i did in this thread a while ago;

Morgans Royal Oak Can
1.7kg LME (Amber)
500g DME/Dex mix
20g POR 15 mins
10g POR flameout
10g POR dry hopped
Nottingham 

Tasting very nice. This is the beer i'm taking to the VIC case swap and i was shooting for a big bodied, malty english ale with low bittering and carbonation. It's spot on. Not a kilkenny clone, maybe it will age to be a bit closer but i'm pretty happy with it as an amber english style beer. Next time i think i would use more traditional english hops and probably bigger late additions - but i was trying to get the malt body to shine through on this one.


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## buttersd70 (21/6/09)

MHB said:


> "_Traditional Irish Red Ale invented by Smithwick in 1986_" still tasty



bwwwwaaahhh. :lol: so funny, yet so true....

It might be a wee bit naff, but I've got to admit, I quite like Kilkenny. Although, the last ones that I had seemed to be drier and roastier (in a good way)? or is it a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder?....I wonder...


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## Ade42 (21/6/09)

So would 26c be "right" or with the Brew Celler Premium yeast I could not go the full heat pad thing. 

Dunno what temp it is now. But ive got 2 brews going at the mo. 
Tohheys Lagar and Tooheys Old, yep just K&K even using the Tooheys tin liquid sugur. 

Filled up to 18L and now a week later I think thev'e stalled at 1020

Its ok when a chepo "Wollies" can goes under. so thats why Im a bit woried about the 50$ invenstment on my first kit with "extras"!


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## RdeVjun (21/6/09)

Actually, letting it cool a bit would be fine Ade, its actually S-04 (which is an excellent dried yeast) in that BrewCellar Premium Ale sachet, and 18-20 would be optimum. I do wish they wouldn't put instructions like that on the kits/cans or spread such rubbish instructions, it is just plain bullshit.

I find on top of an electric hot water system good at the moment, if its too hot then add some insulation. I have some Windsor there at 20 right this moment and it is very stable with just a jumper. My usual brew fridge is full, otherwise it'd be in there as well, the other is cold crashing a couple of other ales. Anyway, that's my advice.


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