# Matilda Bay: Dirty Granny Cider



## calobes (18/8/14)

The girlfriend loves cider and this is her favorite. I don't drink the stuff (don't like ciders).

Has anyone here drunk this cider before? If so any ideas on a recipe. 

Cheers


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## Mutaneer (18/8/14)

Quite like most other commercial ciders, sweet.

Gonna be hard to replicate, but with enough additives and non-fermentable sugar should get you there.

Personally, try and convert her to traditional dry style ciders.

I can barely drink a cider when i'm out anymore, I've become so used to my own dry ciders, that even the dry varieties from proper boutique brewers ar getting close to too sweet.

I managed to lay my hands on some juice from Cox's Orange Pippins and it stays naturally sweeter, even when brewed out fully dry, I guess why it's one of the Apples of choice in Local cider production


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## Phoney (18/8/14)

I would suggest the good old 100% apple juice, fermented with S04 or Nottingham. Then back sweetened with 100 - 200g of lactose.


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## sp0rk (18/8/14)

Phoney said:


> I would suggest the good old 100% apple juice, fermented with S04 or Nottingham. Then back sweetened with 100 - 200g of lactose.


So you're saying add the lactose to the keg?


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## calobes (18/8/14)

Mutaneer said:


> Quite like most other commercial ciders, sweet.
> Gonna be hard to replicate, but with enough additives and non-fermentable sugar should get you there.
> Personally, try and convert her to traditional dry style ciders.
> I can barely drink a cider when i'm out anymore, I've become so used to my own dry ciders, that even the dry varieties from proper boutique brewers ar getting close to too sweet.
> I managed to lay my hands on some juice from Cox's Orange Pippins and it stays naturally sweeter, even when brewed out fully dry, I guess why it's one of the Apples of choice in Local cider production


lol, been a long time since I took a sip of it (a sip is all I ever had) and from my memory I thought it was pretty dry, compared to most commercial ciders anyway.

She doesn't mind if the taste isn't exactly the same, just the style. I was going to go 100% apple juice and some kind of cider yeast and leave it simple as that. So you guys think I would need to backsweeten a bit?

When would I use lactose (never used it). Considering this will be bottled, can I chuck it in during bulk prime?


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## TheBlackAdder (18/8/14)

Lactose is a sugar that doesnt ferment, so its fine to put it in even on day 1. At the same time as the bulk prime will be fine too

Adding some apple and pear juice will also add some sweetness due to more complex sugars in the pear juice


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## calobes (18/8/14)

TheBlackAdder said:


> Lactose is a sugar that doesnt ferment, so its fine to put it in even on day 1. At the same time as the bulk prime will be fine too
> 
> Adding some apple and pear juice will also add some sweetness due to more complex sugars in the pear juice


Thanks mate. So having lactose in the wort during ferment won't alter the sweetness or give off any off flavours?


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## Mr. No-Tip (18/8/14)

I've found a simple juice/s04/nutrient ferment conks out at 1010 anyways (usually within a few days) for a nice, semi sweet cider. Not what I would call bottle safe, it's probably still going slowly, but fine to keg.

I'd try that before adding lactose. you could even have some carbonated apple pear juice to add to each glass as desired?


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## Mr. No-Tip (18/8/14)

I've found a simple juice/s04/nutrient ferment conks out at 1010 anyways (usually within a few days) for a nice, semi sweet cider. Not what I would call bottle safe, it's probably still going slowly, but fine to keg.


I'd try that before adding lactose. you could even have some carbonated apple pear juice to add to each glass as desired?


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## Tb1978 (18/8/14)

I just finished brewing a Mangrove Jacks Apple Cider kit, I forced carbed a 1.25ltr bottle to try it out while I wait fir the keg to carb up, made it as per instructions and used all the sweetener, it definitely very close to the commercial ciders, bit to sweet for my liking as I prefer a dryer cider but very nice, will definitely try again and not add the sweetener next time.. Worth giving it a go if your after a sweeter cider..


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## calobes (19/8/14)

Ok, decided to go simple. 100% apple juice and s-04. After ferment the girlfriend can give it a taste and I'll backsweeten with lactose at bulk prime if she thinks it's too dry.

Thanks for the help fellas


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## sp0rk (19/8/14)

I've got one going right now with
20L of aldi apple juice
750ml of dark black tea (5 teabags)
half a bottle of long life lemon juice (didn't have any fresh)
1kg of frozen mixed berries, thawed and smooshed up in the bag (added once gravity hit around 1.018)
1 packet of SO4

the tannins in the tea and acid from the lemon juice really help to balance the dryness, I think


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## calobes (19/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> I've got one goin thng right now with
> 20L of aldi apple juice
> 750ml of dark black tea (5 teabags)
> half a bottle of long life lemon juice (didn't have any fresh)
> ...


Maybe I'll chuck in a couple of teabags as well. Did you just chuck them in the fermentor with the tea?


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## sp0rk (19/8/14)

nope, brewed up the tea first then removed the bags and just dumped the tea in with everything else


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## mattyg8 (19/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> I've got one going right now with
> 20L of aldi apple juice
> 750ml of dark black tea (5 teabags)
> half a bottle of long life lemon juice (didn't have any fresh)
> ...


Im also about to place this down, but have never used frozen mixed berries....would like to know how it goes


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## calobes (19/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> nope, brewed up the tea first then removed the bags and just dumped the tea in with everything else


thanks spork. No bags it is.


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## sp0rk (19/8/14)

mattyg8 said:


> Im also about to place this down, but have never used frozen mixed berries....would like to know how it goes


I only use frozen stuff, freezing them should kill most things and it rips up the cell walls so the yeasties can munch through the sugaz
The Aldi frozen berries come in a ziplock bag, I just open them and squeeze out all the air, reseal and squash the fruit
Then starsan the bag and squeeze it out into the fermenter
Remember to add the fruit after the majority of fermentation is done, otherwise active fermentation will scrub out most of the colour and flavour from the fruit


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## mattyg8 (28/8/14)

How did the lactose back sweetener go? Mine should be finishing up this weekend so looking to add some lactose in the keg


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## TimT (28/8/14)

_I can barely drink a cider when i'm out anymore, I've become so used to my own dry ciders, that even the dry varieties from proper boutique brewers ar getting close to too sweet._

Yes! Me too. The fruit juice-style sweetness that commercial cider brewers go for is a big distraction. It overwhelms other flavours and lacks any subtlety.

The funny thing about dry ciders or dry wines of any description is you can still often taste a sweetness. I'm not sure what it is: residual unfermentable natural sugars, or ingredients in the wine that have broken down into sugar-like compounds. Certainly after a few months they seem to really take on their own character, and it's fascinating to be there with them as they grow. Of course this sweetness is always balanced out with the familiar wine tastes - a tartness, often an acidity. Fermentation is a fascinating and complex process all right.


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## OneEye (28/8/14)

Probably alcohol sweetness


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## TimT (28/8/14)

I doubt it's just the alcohol, if that was the case the sweetness would be immediately noticeable after primary fermentation when the vast majority of the alcohol is produced. This is a sweetness that grows with time along with other flavours as the wine matures.


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## calobes (30/8/14)

mattyg8 said:


> How did the lactose back sweetener go? Mine should be finishing up this weekend so looking to add some lactose in the keg


I didn't end up back sweetening mine. In fact i'm going to use champagne yeat next time, the s04 didn't do the trick.


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## Mr. No-Tip (30/8/14)

calobes said:


> I didn't end up back sweetening mine. In fact i'm going to use champagne yeat next time, the s04 didn't do the trick.


What do you mean by "didn't do the trick"? Went too low?


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## calobes (5/9/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> What do you mean by "didn't do the trick"? Went too low?


fg didn't go low enough, not as dry as I was aiming for. Hopefully using a champagne yeast rather than the s-04 will do the trick


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## Mr. No-Tip (6/9/14)

1010ish? Or higher?


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## calobes (6/9/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> 1010ish? Or higher?


From memory it was 1.010, I didn't write it down.


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## beej (30/10/14)

Short time lurker, first time poster. I basically found this forum by searching for how to replicate The Dirty Granois as I call it.

I'm a big fan of the cider. Drink far too much of it. The thing I like most is that it ISN'T as sweet as every other cider I've tried. Since producing the first grandchild in the family, we've had a steady stream of visitors over the past 12 months, all of whom are cider fans and have brought about 30 different types. DG is by far the least sweet out of all of them - to the point that I try the rest and it's like drinking sugar & water, and they try DG and think it's disgusting for lack of sweetness. 

Interesting some folk here think it's sweet. About the only other 2 ciders I can tolerate are the James Squire Orchard crush and MG Two Step.

Anyway .. I've got an old Apple tree in the yard that's about 80% Granny Smith and 20% some other variety. Produces HEAPS of fruit each year and most of it goes to ground or the annoying lorikeets. I'd like to net it up, let them grow, and punch out several batches of cider.

I've brewed beer before - mainly taking can mixes and tipping them into saucepans and adding hops and other malts to replicate other beers I liked. All 20-odd bar one batch were roaring successes. 

I'm going to peruse the threads on here for a few weeks while the buds turn into little balls and start netting up. I'll post any progress I make back here. Hopefully I'll be enjoying a Dirty Granois Analogue at far less than $20 a six-pack beginning next year.


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