# Which pump to buy?



## Simdop (8/10/13)

Hi Guys,

Looking for some help with acquiring a pump for my brew rig. I've got two 50L kegs with the tops cut off and some half inch taps welded in. Ones the mash tun and the other is the kettle. 

After visiting a micro brewery I realised the awesomeness of pumps, so I want to do that rather than a gravity feed. So many benefits.

I tried my local home brew shop and he ordered in a pump for me which was a cheap knock off of a March pump. Pretty much the same as this one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/809-FOOD-GRADE-MAGNETIC-Drive-Polysulfone-PUMP-Beer-Brewing-Mashing-Wort-March-/300954887225?pt=AU_Pumps&hash=item46124f2439&_uhb=1

He also got me some half inch bsp screw on disconnects and some silicone hose to make up my hoses. However, the thread on the pump shat itself when I screwed on the disconnects, so I'm going to return that to him. I had a lead from the brewery about a spare American march pump but that has failed.

I've also seen on here to a Herm pump with Gryphon? http://gryphonbrewing.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=77&products_id=597&osCsid=bb57r44mt2u3l26ntumh4anc40

So can anyone offer some advice on where to get a pump? Ideally I would like to use some disconnects that I can get from my home brew guy (like an air system style) for now. Ultimately I would like to plumb it properly but it is a slow build in progress.

Would love some guidance and advise. I'm potentially looking at the tesco site in the US too but it seems expensive and a long way to get a pump. I'm after 240v and the ability to throttle it by partially opening one of the taps...


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## pat_00 (8/10/13)

i have a kaixin pump. I think that's the type you tried. The plastic thread is a bit crap, but otherwise I have found it to be good.

Check out the chugger pumps, they have a stainless head and are a little cheaper than march pumps. Still kind of expensive though.


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## Cocko (8/10/13)

I have run a march and now a chugger... I have nothing bad to say about either.

The chugger head is awesome tho, you could hang your house off the SS head.


I have many a mate use the little brown pumps and report them as disposable, "Oh it was only $40.." works for 3 brews..

BUY ONCE, BUY RIGHT.

2.3c. [seasonably adjusted]


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## wide eyed and legless (9/10/13)

Have you had a look on Alibaba? (food grade/beer pumps)


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## Simdop (9/10/13)

Where's the best place to look for a chugger or March? 

I haven't heard of Alibaba?


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## NewtownClown (9/10/13)

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=food+grade+beer+pump


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## QldKev (9/10/13)

March have been around for a long time and have a great track record. They do still run a plastic type head so no fat fingers doing up the fittings. I run one on my 3V.  Tesco pumps have them

Chugger are a newer pump and run a stainless head which is good if you want bling and feel safer doing up your fittings. Not sure about the comment earlier that they are cheaper than March pumps as to me they are more expensive (march 153+55 post=208, vs chugger 199+post=a bit more). They have had an issue with overheating, but the new batch of motors seem to have it sorted out. There is an Australian distributor 

Kaixin are like what you got, and are fairly cheap and so far have been reliable. Same thing plastic head, so don't get too energetic doing up fittings. Have a search on here and you will find heaps of info and how to order, expect to pay about $60 odd. I run the bigger mp-20 on my 1V and have had no issues.


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## pat_00 (9/10/13)

Yeah I wasn't sure about the price difference. But if you want local support and buy from an Aussie retailer the march pumps seem a fair bit dearer. Would suck having to pay $58 to return the pump to the US if anything went wrong.

Also KegKing sell the kaixin pump for $65. Pretty much what I paid for mine through alibaba.


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## Simdop (9/10/13)

Is the chugger magnetic drive or via shaft?

How does it compare to the HERM-IT ULTIMISER BREWERY PUMP?

I'm preferring local as its a bit easier.


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## angus_grant (9/10/13)

Chugger is magnetic drive and comes with the pump bracket included. So add on another $35 when comparing local March pump vs local chugger.

Chugger has stainless steel head which is again an extra cost for the march pump, so add on more $$ to compare same feature set.

I can't give any experience on long term reliability of chugger as I am still building my brew system and am yet to use the pump. I couldn't really find any complaints or problems on the US home brew forums where it has been released for quite a while. And you know how people love to complain on the Internet.....

I did a 2 hour mash temp and then raise to boil for 45 minutes test on my pump without a rest after receiving a replacement because original suffered from the over-heating Kev mentioned above. Replacement all worked normally. I've no idea how hot the march pumps run, but the chugger does run fairly hot. I think I will be building in a little fan to help recirc air on the pump during brew sessions, but probably not necessary.

Edit: added my test details.


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## QldKev (9/10/13)

Simdop said:


> Is the chugger magnetic drive or via shaft?
> 
> How does it compare to the HERM-IT ULTIMISER BREWERY PUMP?
> 
> I'm preferring local as its a bit easier.



Chugger, March and Kaixin are magnetic drive, Ultimiser is not.

I can't comment on a comparison for the Ultimiser as I've not heard much about them.



Get a bulk buy happening and these Kaixin are only $30 each. Otherwise contact the seller he may be happy to put up a listing of qty 1 (but maybe at a slightly higher price)


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## Simdop (9/10/13)

I've done a bit of digging around on here and it seems that the Ultimiser is shaft driven. Its supposed to be faster than a mag drive and it doesn't clog like a mag drive would?

gryphonbrewing is out of stock of them anyway so I'm tempted to just look at getting the Chugger. I like the idea of a metal head a lot more.


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## QldKev (9/10/13)

Honestly, if you pick any of the ones above I think you should get many great years of brewing from it. My pick would be the Kaixin, just because you can get 3 pumps for the price of one of the others.


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## sp0rk (9/10/13)

QldKev said:


> Chugger, March and Kaixin are magnetic drive, Ultimiser is not.
> 
> I can't comment on a comparison for the Ultimiser as I've not heard much about them.
> 
> ...


I'm in the market for a Kaixin pump, so if anyone wants to do a bulk buy, I'd be in


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## Simdop (9/10/13)

Thanks for all the help, thanks a lot of sense.

Angus, I've found the post for the build up for your system and I like it a lot. Especially the camlocks. They're way better than the solution I had in mind. How are you finding them? Working well?


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## angus_grant (9/10/13)

I am still in the building phase, but getting close to doing a test run. Just need to finalise sealing for the threaded rod and I can start doing some test water flows through the malt pipe and heating/recirc tests.

So basically all I can say now is that the cam-locks do not leak. They are handy for disconnecting the silicon hoses when packing away. I can't tell you how much heat loss through the silicon occurs, or really any other info. You've posted on the Brewton thread, so I will post updates there.


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## djar007 (9/10/13)

sp0rk said:


> I'm in the market for a Kaixin pump, so if anyone wants to do a bulk buy, I'd be in




I will take two.


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## brewtas (9/10/13)

I'm interested in a couple as well


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## jonnir (9/10/13)

I'd be in as well. Who's keen to organise lol


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## Jordyt01 (9/10/13)

I'm in for 2 of the pumps aswell!


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## jzabski (9/10/13)

I would grab 2 of these pumps as well if there was a bulk order.


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## Yob (9/10/13)

Bastards... Put me down for 1


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## OzPaleAle (9/10/13)

QldKev said:


> Chugger, March and Kaixin are magnetic drive, Ultimiser is not.
> 
> I can't comment on a comparison for the Ultimiser as I've not heard much about them.
> 
> ...




http://www.aliexpress.com

Ali express is the low volume subsidiary of Alibaba, means you don't have to buy container loads.
I have bought a condenser and can of hop extract so far.

Those Kaixin pumps below

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/MP-15R-Magnetic-Pump/895321672.html


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## keifer33 (9/10/13)

Haha someone needs to start a bulk buy.

On topic of the pumps I have gone from a LBP to a Hermit ultimiser and can only speak good things about it. It tears threw any grain that might be pulled threw from the mash so no need to worry about clogging. Also the switch on the top is handy.


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## Simdop (10/10/13)

keifer33 said:


> Haha someone needs to start a bulk buy.
> 
> On topic of the pumps I have gone from a LBP to a Hermit ultimiser and can only speak good things about it. It tears threw any grain that might be pulled threw from the mash so no need to worry about clogging. Also the switch on the top is handy.


Is that the only real difference between it and say the chugger?


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## maldridge (10/10/13)

Count me in for a Kaixin pump. Looks like that's 12 pumps so far!


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## hsv_069 (10/10/13)

Ill grab a Kaixin too!!


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## Danwood (10/10/13)

Hilarious !!


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## JB (10/10/13)

Is this the line for Kaixin pumps or are you all just lined up for the dunny? Ah stuff it, I'll join either way.


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## Simdop (10/10/13)

OMG what have I started? :blink:

I ain't organising any bulk buy btw


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## niftinev (11/10/13)

I wouldn't buy anything from aliexpress because if there is a problem they don't refund all your money. They will give you back about app.30% only if you receive the goods and they are faulty.

They say they will give you back 100% less taxes levied (yes they sometimes charge taxes and say they are charged by our gov. ******* bullshit! and will not refund this) but the onus is on you to prove the supplier received the goods back and you have to pay all postage costs.

Yes in my case I received faulty goods (damaged) and they found in my favour but only refunded $40US from $135US. It was going to cost me $98 to send the goods back and after what I went through I would not trust any of them. Wouln't be surprised if seller knowingly sent faulty goods.


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## djar007 (11/10/13)

I emailed the Alibaba guy for shipping prices. Also be keen to try one of these ones for ten dollars more.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/603050563/SE12WZ_8_Stainless_Steel_Pipes_Pressuried.html


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## mikeybycrikey (11/10/13)

I got one that looks exactly like this http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Non-Clogging-Sewage-Pump/896652789.html (I can confirm it doesn't clog, never tried recirculating sewage though) for $180 from LHBS bout 2 years ago. Never skipped a beat. Brew at least once a fortnight.


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## wide eyed and legless (11/10/13)

Was that just one bad experience Nev ? I have never had a problem with either Alibaba or Aliexpress, was the goods you sent for from India or Indonesia, they are the 2 worst countries to deal with, just keep clear of those and some of the drop shippers with ridiculously cheap prices.


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## Judanero (11/10/13)

Keep us posted Djar, if the price is right I'd definitely be interested. :beerbang:


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## QldKev (11/10/13)

mikeybycrikey said:


> I got one that looks exactly like this http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Non-Clogging-Sewage-Pump/896652789.html (I can confirm it doesn't clog, never tried recirculating sewage though) for $180 from LHBS bout 2 years ago. Never skipped a beat. Brew at least once a fortnight.



I use both a March 809 and a Kaixin mp-20 and neither have either clogged. If your pump is getting clogged in a brew I think you would need to review the false bottom design.


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## JaseH (11/10/13)

Yeah I don't know how your supposed to clog a March unless your trying to pump your mash through it? Mine has never come close to clogging and I get a bit of crap come through it occasionally when transferring the last dribbles of wort from the mash.

The idea of the magnetic drive is so you can throttle the flow right down without over taxing the motor.


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## Simdop (11/10/13)

Frothie said:


> Yeah I don't know how your supposed to clog a March unless your trying to pump your mash through it? Mine has never come close to clogging and I get a bit of crap come through it occasionally when transferring the last dribbles of wort from the mash.
> 
> The idea of the magnetic drive is so you can throttle the flow right down without over taxing the motor.


But you can use it to recirculate the mash yeah?


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## dago001 (11/10/13)

I had a LBP when I was building/trialling my herms system, and thought that for $30 is was basically a throw away item. The pump only lasted a couple brews, but it did the job for me to learn on the fly without a huge $$$ outlay. When it failed I purchased a March from the US when the dollar was good, and dont regret it. The Kaixin pump wasnt recognised as a brewing pump at that stage, so I purchased what I knew to be a quality peice of equipment. Never had a problem with the pump in 2 years of brewing with it. It must have done well over 70 brews at between 20l to 60l batches. I also use it to pump my sparge water. Its a good bit of kit.
Cheers
LB


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## JaseH (11/10/13)

Simdop said:


> But you can use it to recirculate the mash yeah?


Yeah but your only pumping the liquid, your false bottom or whatever your using should stop any major amounts of grain from circulating. Small amounts don't worry the March. I don't recirculate the mash but do use mine to vorlauf which is basically the same.


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## djar007 (11/10/13)

They got back to me. $25.80 for a quantity of fifty pumps. Just looking at the price of freight now. He is quoting sea and air freight so I will post N update when I get one. Also asked for same pump. P with stainless head but still high temp. He will quote same.


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## CoopsOz (11/10/13)

I'm keen too. Prefer stainless obviously if it comes off. Unfortunately I don't have the capital to front the bulk buy either.


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## niftinev (11/10/13)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Was that just one bad experience Nev ? I have never had a problem with either Alibaba or Aliexpress, was the goods you sent for from India or Indonesia, they are the 2 worst countries to deal with, just keep clear of those and some of the drop shippers with ridiculously cheap prices.


the times it happened to me the goods were from china and one lot was from the Infamous Jack Gu involving kaixon pumps. Seems he was doing it on a regular basis.

Just a warning that if things go wrong don't expect your money back


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## wide eyed and legless (11/10/13)

Fair enough Nev , I am happy with my set-up, maybe the guys who are buying the pumps should be treading a bit careful.


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## Simdop (11/10/13)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Fair enough Nev , I am happy with my set-up, maybe the guys who are buying the pumps should be treading a bit careful.


I'm just going to get a chugger I think


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## Batz (11/10/13)

The march pump is tried and tested, and of course your not a true brewer unless you own a Braumeister .....March Pump


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## Northside Novice (12/10/13)

+1 on brown = disposable
Was fun/ cute while it lasted


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## [email protected] (12/10/13)

G'day Djar007,

By my calculations $25.80 by 50 will put you over the $1000 customs limit, just something to keep in mind.

Cheers,

Andrew.


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## djar007 (17/10/13)

Yeah. He came back with a 670 dollar air freight price to my door or eighty dollars sea freight. Then I would need to deal with the customs paperwork and taxes. So I am waiting on a price for the stainless head. And then I will put all the prices together and post back. Might contact Keg King to do a bulk buy through them. A lot less hassle and local warranty.


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## booargy (18/10/13)

djar007 said:


> Yeah. He came back with a 670 dollar air freight price to my door or eighty dollars sea freight. Then I would need to deal with the customs paperwork and taxes. So I am waiting on a price for the stainless head. And then I will put all the prices together and post back. Might contact Keg King to do a bulk buy through them. A lot less hassle and local warranty.


I would be interesred in 4 maybe 5 if you need numbers. Stainless only.


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## QldKev (18/10/13)

Should chat with him about the numbers, and even hit up ali-express the low volume sister site. Then try and get a smaller bulk buy that keeps it under the $1,000


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## wide eyed and legless (18/10/13)

You could always split the invoice.


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## Crouch (21/10/13)

I picked up 2 of the cheaper $65 pumps from KegKing just the other day, they did mention something about the threads not fitting correctly and had modified them in-store. I was able to test fit them to the plumbing pieces I am using in my rig and all works well. Yet to use them in a brew (but they're pumping water fine), but as far as being able to walk into a shop, play with some stuff, ask stupid questions and try the beer they have on tap, I'm happy forking over a little extra for the service.


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## maldridge (21/10/13)

I think I'll do the same as you Chrouch. I need to get a few fittings at the same time so it'll be good to make sure everything fits in the shop.


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## Yob (21/10/13)

drinking a trpiel Maldridge?


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## nathan_madness (21/10/13)

I got myself a Chugger before there was no Australian Distributor and it has the over heating issue. The customer service from Chugger is absolutely 0%. Even though they know that the first 230v pumps were faulty they are giving me excuses saying that my setup is incorrect (Recirc 70L BIAB). No happy with them at all!!

I have just purchased 2 March 815-SS-C from Tesco Pumps for my 3v system that I am building.


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## sp0rk (21/10/13)

Anyone hit up our mate Jack Gu from Kaixin to see if he's happy to ship 10-15 pumps?
I'm getting close to needing a pump soon and I'm a little reluctant to pay $90 for a kaixin from my LHBS


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## maldridge (22/10/13)

Yob said:


> drinking a trpiel Maldridge?


 Whoa triple post, wtf haha.

Are the Kaixin pumps the same as the ~$65 pumps from kegking/g&g?


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## Yob (22/10/13)

I believe so


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## maldridge (22/10/13)

Although the ones these days can handle above boiling liquids? At least that is what's listed on all the retailers' webpages (Up to 120C). Surely that would mean if it were to fail due to heat malfunction you could exchange or refund the item...

I want to start brewing double batches more regularly and the only way to do so is to get a pump so I can brew doubles on my own. Seriously considering purchasing one this week for my weekend brew.


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## Camo6 (22/10/13)

I got two Kaixin delivered from Jacky Gu for about $115. One had a dicky thread that took a lot of swearing to accept a fitting and the other had a crack in the plastic cover on the electrical end. Jack blamed the courier and said he couldn't post replacement parts due to the cost but he could send it out with another purchase. Pfffft. This was when the KK pumps were over $100 or more.
For $65 each from KK you can't really go wrong. They seem pretty good at honouring warranty issues with their products and so far these pumps seem pretty reliable. No affiliation except for being a happy repeat customer.


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## sp0rk (22/10/13)

Might have to get someone to pop into KK for me so I don't have to pay a mark up...


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## dr K (22/10/13)

The only prob with the KK pumps is that the price has dropped (significantly)....smile....
They are great pumps, I have run one 24 hours (don't ask why) with no problemo. 

Kurtz


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## bradsbrew (22/10/13)

dr K said:


> The only prob with the KK pumps is that the price has dropped (significantly)....smile....
> They are great pumps, I have run one 24 hours (don't ask why) with no problemo.
> 
> Kurtz


So you left the pump running with sod perc through the heat exchanger after a brew and did not remember until the next day too hey, Dr K? Well it's not as if you can hear the bloody thing running.


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## dr K (22/10/13)

bradsbrew said:


> So you left the pump running with sod perc through the heat exchanger after a brew and did not remember until the next day too hey, Dr K? Well it's not as if you can hear the bloody thing running.


I actually used my boiler for a massive sous vide involving turkeys and whirlpools......


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## bradsbrew (22/10/13)

dr K said:


> I actually used my boiler for a massive sous vide involving turkeys and whirlpools......


Nice


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