# How Long Until My Yeast Is Gone?



## jojai (7/8/08)

I received a parcel of 3 liquid yeast smack packs today. One was already starting to swell when I unwrapped it (or I could have 'smacked' it while unwrapping it, I'm not sure as it was pretty swollen when i noticed and I've never used smack packs before to know how long they take). 

Anyway, how long do I have before I have to use the yeast? 

And secondly, as I'm awaiting grain from the SA bulk buy and Beerbelly have gone AWOL, where, close to Adelaide city should I get enough grain for this one batch? 

Or is there a better way of preserving the yeast for a week or so?

Kind regards, 
Joseph


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## Screwtop (7/8/08)

jojai said:


> I received a parcel of 3 liquid yeast smack packs today. One was already starting to swell when I unwrapped it (or I could have 'smacked' it while unwrapping it, I'm not sure as it was pretty swollen when i noticed and I've never used smack packs before to know how long they take).
> 
> Anyway, how long do I have before I have to use the yeast?
> 
> ...




It might not be popped (smacked) can you feel the nutrient pillow inside? Sometimes the packs will swell if they are a bit old of have been warm. Just whack em in the fridge, or smack and wait. If you are making a starter, depending on how big a starter you want (how many times you want to step it up) it can take up to a week before it's ready for pitching.

Screwy


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## jojai (7/8/08)

I'm not totally sure if I can feel the nutrient pillow, it hasn't swollen up any more since it's been in the fridge and it's not massively bigger than the other 2. The yeast is marked June 20, so it's pretty fresh yeah? Or is that old in yeast terms? Reckon I'll make up a starter anyway just to be sure, thanks for the help Screwy


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## newguy (7/8/08)

June 20 is quite young.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

jojai said:


> I'm not totally sure if I can feel the nutrient pillow, it hasn't swollen up any more since it's been in the fridge and it's not massively bigger than the other 2. The yeast is marked June 20, so it's pretty fresh yeah? Or is that old in yeast terms? Reckon I'll make up a starter anyway just to be sure, thanks for the help Screwy


Was it packed with Ice gel cells ? Should have been, and at least wrapped in bubble wrap or better..Aust Post can be savage on items not sent by express post.The yeast is about half way through its expected use by life of 6 months so you should be ok but if your sure its popped get the yeast working soon.You can keep it in the fridge to slow the swelling.
GB


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## T.D. (7/8/08)

That's pretty bad if its swelling by the time you receive it in the mail! Means you pretty much have to use it straight away, which can throw a spanner in the works if its not what you planned to do. Fine if you ask the retailer to smack it for you, but if not something's gone wrong! Where did you get it from?

edit: I agree with Gryphon re the ice packs. I would never buy liquid yeast on mail order unless properly packaged with ice cells.


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## newguy (7/8/08)

T.D. said:


> That's pretty bad if its swelling by the time you receive it in the mail! Means you pretty much have to use it straight away, which can throw a spanner in the works if its not what you planned to do. Fine if you ask the retailer to smack it for you, but if not something's gone wrong! Where did you get it from?
> 
> edit: I agree with Gryphon re the ice packs. I would never buy liquid yeast on mail order unless properly packaged with ice cells.



Don't be so quick to blame the retailer. About 4 or 5 years ago Wyeast was rushing the yeast into the packs before it was completely done fermenting. The result was smack packs that swelled on their own without the need to rupture the inner nutrient bag. I had the misfortune of getting a few of them. If I could rupture the inner bulb, the pack would sometimes burst a few days later. I actually ruptured the outer pack on one just trying to burst the bulb because it was so swollen.

Maybe they're having production isues again?


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## T.D. (7/8/08)

True, that's certainly a possibility (although your case is the first I've heard of it happening). I suppose the key will be whether the nutrient pack had burst or not.


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## PostModern (7/8/08)

Express your concerns to your retailer. You should be able to get a refund or a new sachet. If you can't be bothered or are prepared to do the work yourself, you could make a starter to ensure viability. Keep it in the fridge in the meantime. 

I had an out out-of-date discounted smack pack recently that started swelling. It is now in a fermenter with 3 inches of krausen. I just kept it cool in the fridge until a day before I pitched. Apparently no harm done.


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## jojai (7/8/08)

An ice pack wasn't really necessary since it's so cold down in SA. I got it from Ross, I tried calling him first but got his message bank hence why I asked here. It was bubble wrapped and I doubt it was Ross that burst it, I'd say it was the courier or me when I was unwrapping it since it hasn't swollen up much at all. I'll make a starter later on today (after going to uni). Should be good, at least I'm being forced to make a starter rather than being my usual slack self


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

newguy said:


> Don't be so quick to blame the retailer. About 4 or 5 years ago Wyeast was rushing the yeast into the packs before it was completely done fermenting. The result was smack packs that swelled on their own without the need to rupture the inner nutrient bag. I had the misfortune of getting a few of them. If I could rupture the inner bulb, the pack would sometimes burst a few days later. I actually ruptured the outer pack on one just trying to burst the bulb because it was so swollen.
> 
> Maybe they're having production isues again?


New Guy Are you using Wyeast now ? This could have been possible, I notice that was 4 or 5 years ago.Wyeast has changed its packaging at least 3 times I can remember.I have been selling Wyeast for a few years and have not seen this before , so far I have had to replace one smack pack due to unknown spoilage.Not a bad record I would say.
I recommed they are shipped with gel ice packs and packaged as well as possible to keep Aust post at bay.Better to buy in the cooler months and have it shipped then use at your leasure during the heat.
GB


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## Frank (7/8/08)

You could try the Jovial Monk for some grain.

http://jovialmonk.com.au/


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

jojai said:


> An ice pack wasn't really necessary since it's so cold down in SA. I got it from Ross, I tried calling him first but got his message bank hence why I asked here. It was bubble wrapped and I doubt it was Ross that burst it, I'd say it was the courier or me when I was unwrapping it since it hasn't swollen up much at all. I'll make a starter later on today (after going to uni). Should be good, at least I'm being forced to make a starter rather than being my usual slack self


You said it was dated June 20 ? Ross only started selling Wyeast a few weeks ago ? When I order from the USA my yeast arrive only a week old. :huh: 
GB


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## PostModern (7/8/08)

jojai said:


> An ice pack wasn't really necessary since it's so cold down in SA. I got it from Ross, I tried calling him first but got his message bank hence why I asked here. It was bubble wrapped and I doubt it was Ross that burst it, I'd say it was the courier or me when I was unwrapping it since it hasn't swollen up much at all. I'll make a starter later on today (after going to uni). Should be good, at least I'm being forced to make a starter rather than being my usual slack self



Cold in SA. Fine. But the yeast pack went from Qld, where it would have had a few hours in the post office, then in a truck going to the sorting house. Was the sack it was in over the exhaust?? In the sorting house for a few hours, another truck, the cargo section of a plane, blah blah, into the posty's pannier in the sun, your doorstep, etc etc. Ice packs will keep the yeast near 0C. All this variability in temperature is not good for the yeast.

I'm not having a go at Ross. He's keeping the cost down, which is all good and well if price is your primary focus. I just like to know when I pitch my yeast that it's been kept at optimal storage temps for the whole time from release from Wyeast until I pull it out of my own fridge to smack it. Even when I bought White Labs from ESB in Peakhurst, I'd take a cold satchel and ice pack for the 40 min ride home in the car.


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## Trent (7/8/08)

Joseph
What strain is it that is swollen partially already? Some strains will tend to swell a little by themselves, I have found that with the berliner strain, the fat tire strain, and several others that tend to have a bit of a penchant for doing that. I have never had a problem with using htese yeasts sometimes 9 months after the production date. If you are in no real hurry to use it, then just wait. If it isnt swollen too much, then just feel around for the little lump inside and you will probably feel it - they are difficult to smack at the best of times, so I find it difficult to believe that the courier burst it. 
Worst comes to it, just use a starter, and not worry about smacking it. I have always found yeast to be remarkably resilient.
All the best
Trent


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## Screwtop (7/8/08)

Trent said:


> Joseph
> What strain is it that is swollen partially already? Some strains will tend to swell a little by themselves, I have found that with the berliner strain, the fat tire strain, and several others that tend to have a bit of a penchant for doing that. I have never had a problem with using htese yeasts sometimes 9 months after the production date. If you are in no real hurry to use it, then just wait. If it isnt swollen too much, then just feel around for the little lump inside and you will probably feel it - they are difficult to smack at the best of times, so I find it difficult to believe that the courier burst it.
> Worst comes to it, just use a starter, and not worry about smacking it. I have always found yeast to be remarkably resilient.
> All the best
> Trent




I'm with trent, if it's only swollen a little then yes a few strains tend to do that. And the bloody things can be a real bugger to burst, on the kitchen bench squeeze the pack up into one corner and push down on it with the side of your palm. The packs are able to expand quite a bit, I doubt that it would be so swollen that you would burst it. As Trent says, just have a 2L sanitised container ready (plastic 2.4L juice bottle is good or an old fashioned gooney) with a litre of cool boiled DME wort at around 22, sanitise the top of the pack and snip the top open using sanitised scissors, pour the yeast into the container of wort. If the nutrient pack has survived then after adding the yeast to the cooled (22) wort snip open the yeast nutrient pack (inner) and pour that in as well, or if you prefer leave that nutrient out and boil another 500ml of DME wort with some fresh yeast nutrient added and when cooled add this to the container.

I still have a pack in the fridge that arrived in the condition you described, was fresh then, now its a few months old and hasn't changed a bit.


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## MCT (7/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You said it was dated June 20 ? Ross only started selling Wyeast a few weeks ago ? When I order from the USA my yeast arrive only a week old. :huh:
> GB




July 7 was when Ross started selling Wyeast. Not _that _bad a turn around mate.
Also, if the yeast has a 6 month lifespan as you say, it's only 7 weeks old. Not really half way there like you said.


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## newguy (7/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> New Guy Are you using Wyeast now ? This could have been possible, I notice that was 4 or 5 years ago.Wyeast has changed its packaging at least 3 times I can remember.I have been selling Wyeast for a few years and have not seen this before , so far I have had to replace one smack pack due to unknown spoilage.Not a bad record I would say.



Yes, I still use Wyeast but I have a fridge full of White Labs vials because I won them at comps.

This was 2004 - I'm pretty sure it was 2004. I know that they were having production issues because a friend got it straight from Wyeast (grudgingly) after he raised holy hell with them about it. He had received a few self-swelling packs too and was none too pleased about it. At that time the packaging was pretty much identical to what it is now. The only difference is the way the manufacturing date is marked on the pack. It used to be embossed into the top lip and now it's printed on the front. The package artwork, size, layout, etc was the same then as it is now.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

MCT said:


> Also, if the yeast has a 6 month lifespan as you say, it's only 7 weeks old. Not really half way there like you said.


I was speaking in general terms and not being anal.The point being made is that it has a six month use by date if stored and delivered properly.Not my rules ,Wyeasts.
GB


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## jojai (7/8/08)

Spoke to Ross, and turns out I was just being an idiot. Because I've never used these before I assumed all the packs should be the same size, this pack is a Belgian yeast and it was double the size of the others, Ross attributed it to the fact that the yeast just found nutrients that the other yeasts can't/don't eat (being a high attenuation strand). Now I know so all is good. 

(I was going to delete this thread because I don't think AHB is a place for flame between distributors etc. But I reckon someone else new to liquid yeast might find it helpful. )


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## sama (7/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I recommed they are shipped with gel ice packs and packaged as well as possible to keep Aust post at bay.Better to buy in the cooler months and have it shipped then use at your leasure during the heat.
> GB



good advice!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

jojai said:


> Spoke to Ross, and turns out I was just being an idiot. Because I've never used these before I assumed all the packs should be the same size, this pack is a Belgian yeast and it was double the size of the others, Ross attributed it to the fact that the yeast just found nutrients that the other yeasts can't/don't eat (being a high attenuation strand). Now I know so all is good.
> 
> (I was going to delete this thread because I don't think AHB is a place for flame between distributors etc. But I reckon someone else new to liquid yeast might find it helpful. )


I am glad you sorted it out.Now to make this clear for one and all there is no flame here, There is only one way to ship Wyeast and it is made VERY clear by Wyeast as follows.
Quote

SECONDARY SHIPPING- Retailers and Wholesale Distributors who sell Wyeast Laboratories Retail
Packaged Liquid Yeast via mail order or resell via shipments to other retailers must follow shipping
guidelines as directed by Wyeast, including use of insulated packaging, gel ice, and shipping methods
which insure delivery within 48 hours. Failure to follow these guidelines voids this product warranty.
End quote
So you see I am selling wyeast in the way it should sold .End of story.You buy it not shipped with Gel Ice at your own risk.
GB


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## Ross (7/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You buy it not shipped with Gel Ice at your own risk.
> GB



We don't need Wyeasts limited 6 month guarantee as we personally guarantee the yeast we sell.
Any Wyeast we sell that doesnt fire, will be replaced free of charge, no arguments, regardless of age.
At worst we'll shortly be supplying gel packs as well as the current bubblewrap if requested, but we are working on something that we believe will be better.

cheers Ross


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

Ross said:


> We don't need Wyeasts limited 6 month guarantee as we personally guarantee the yeast we sell.
> Any Wyeast we sell that doesnt fire, will be replaced free of charge, no arguments, regardless of age.
> 
> 
> cheers Ross


Ross Not much consolation for the brewer when goes to pitch and his yeast and it doesnt work.As I have said I have been selling wyeast for years and have only had to replace one smack pack.I think those Wyeast Shipping guidlines are there for a reason.If I read your statment correctly and I appologise if Im wrong you are going to sell out of date yeast and personally guarantee that as well ?
Cheers GB


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## Screwtop (7/8/08)

I for one am a bit over this retailer "mine's bigger than yours" crap. Leave it to the customers to report good or bad service.


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## Ross (7/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Ross Not much consolation for the brewer when goes to pitch and his yeast and it doesnt work.As I have said I have been selling wyeast for years and have only had to replace one smack pack.I think those Wyeast Shipping guidlines are there for a reason.If I read your statment correctly and I appologise if Im wrong you are going to sell out of date yeast and personally guarantee that as well ?
> Cheers GB



GB,

Icepacks certainly help & as I keep repeating, we will have them available shortly for those that wish to use them.
They have very limited effect though without adequate insulation & as I've said, we are working on something (if it comes off) that we believe will work much better. The bubblewrap they currently get sent in, appears to be quite adequate from ALL the feedback we've had.
.....& yes, we will be guaranteeing any out of date yeast we sell....assuming we ever have any B) 

cheers Ross


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## Ross (7/8/08)

Screwtop said:


> I for one am a bit over this retailer "mine's bigger than yours" crap. Leave it to the customers to report good or bad service.




agreed....


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

Ross said:


> GB,
> 
> Icepacks certainly help & as I keep repeating, we will have them available shortly for those that wish to use them.
> They have very limited effect though without adequate insulation & as I've said, we are working on something (if it comes off) that we believe will work much better. The bubblewrap they currently get sent in, appears to be quite adequate from ALL the feedback we've had.
> ...


Thats Great Ross Im sure Your customers and Wyeast will be happy to hear it.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/8/08)

Screwtop said:


> I for one am a bit over this retailer "mine's bigger than yours" crap. Leave it to the customers to report good or bad service.


You seem to have missed the point , there shouldnt be any bad service.
GB


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## Screwtop (7/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You seem to have missed the point , there shouldnt be any bad service.
> GB




This thread is not in the Retail forum.


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## kook (12/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I have been selling Wyeast for a few years and have not seen this before , so far I have had to replace one smack pack due to unknown spoilage.Not a bad record I would say.



I've had this happen occasionally with WYeast purchased from WA retailers. I've got a pack of 3711 in the fridge that has swolen of its own accord since purchase late last year.

I've had 1056 swell so large that I couldn't pop the inner package. All have been stored in the fridge as soon as they arrived home. 

That said, I've always just used them. They kicked off straight away in a starter, and produced perfectly fine beer (IMO anyway).

I'd always just presumed that this happens with some WYeast packs, either due to incomplete fermentation, or the yeast working slowly on leftover nutrients. I've never bought it up with the retailer as I didn't think it was an issue?


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