# Water Hardness/softness And Tap Water Vs Spring Water



## orwell_g (15/3/10)

Hi guys,

Something that I've been thinking about recently and haven't seemed to have found any specific definitive answer on here, so thought I'd create a post about it.

I have done only a few brews now, however one of my last kits was the coopers pale ale. I did everything by the book (the limited coopers book ) with the exception of water. I used 20 liters of spring water (bought from woolies, I think it was Frantell or something, probably just has a spring in it, rather than coming from a spring ) instead of tap water. I was under the impression that the spring water will have a little less "after taste" than my tap water.

I found that the beer was quite "watery" in comparison to previous brews. Is this down to the hardness of the spring water? I'm assuming that the spring water may have been "softer" than tap water. I have now read that the magnesium and calcium are requirements in having well rounded beer.

My question is, has anyone else experienced the same thing? And should I completely forget about using any other water than tap water?

Thanks in advance!


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## orwell_g (16/3/10)

Anyone got any thoughts on this? Is it a stupid question?


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## Fourstar (16/3/10)

tap water is fine, even better is to store the water overnight to help the chlorine dissipate so you dont end up with chlorophenols in your beer. If you where Grain brewing i'd advocate adjusting your water profile to suit the style and required mash pH but this is not something you really need to toy with when it comes to extract/ brewing.

You can always add 1 tsp~ Calcium Chloride to try help bump malt aromas/flavour (chloride) and aid with yeast flocculation/health(calcium) 

or 

Calcium Sufate to help push hop bitterness/roundness if you do a small hop boil (sulfate) and the benifit of calcium for the yeast health/flocculation. 

Again, not required for kit brewing but may have some flavour benifits. At this stage in your brewing i'd just stick with getting the basics right first. I woudlnt attribute the watry flavour to the water itself, moreso to the lack of residual sugars.


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## chillihilli (16/3/10)

orwell_g said:


> I was under the impression that the spring water will have a little less "after taste" than my tap water.



I've been analysing water for about 20 years for my aquarium hobby. Spring water will definitely be cleaner than tap water. In relation to hardness (ie mineral content), it depends where you live.. Melbourne, for example, has some of the softest water in the world. If you have ever had water from Mt. Gambier for example, it's very limey/sulphury due to the limestone geology and therefore quite hard and full of calcium.



orwell_g said:


> I found that the beer was quite "watery" in comparison to previous brews. Is this down to the hardness of the spring water? I'm assuming that the spring water may have been "softer" than tap water. I have now read that the magnesium and calcium are requirements in having well rounded beer.



I brew my beers with filtered Melbourne tap water. I've never checked the hardness, but it should be very low. My beers turn out quite well. That said, I only every brew to 21L. If you brew to 23L, you will obviously have beer which is more watery. The spring water you buy is a form of mineral water and will have calcium and magnesium in it. All water does to some degree.



orwell_g said:


> My question is, has anyone else experienced the same thing? And should I completely forget about using any other water than tap water?



Tap water should be OK if it is decent quality. You could look into a filter, but then consider how much you will spend vs how much you will pay for bottled water. Our water filter cost a few hundred, but we drink probably 50L per week (not counting a brew). Given that beer is 85% plus water, it's worth having good water in my opinion.

I hope that helps.


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## Fourstar (16/3/10)

Chillihilli said:


> Tap water should be OK if it is decent quality. You could look into a filter, but then consider how much you will spend vs how much you will pay for bottled water. Our water filter cost a few hundred, but we drink probably 50L per week (not counting a brew). Given that beer is 85% plus water, it's worth having good water in my opinion.
> 
> I hope that helps.




I agree, you should use the best water you can. Knocking out chlorine is good enough if you are using low mineral soft water like melbourne. 60 bucks will get you a Brita inline tap filter that straps onto your tap. Ive recently invested in one just for repeatability and got mine in the laundry to keep out of the way and dedicated just for brewing so it doesnt get abused in the kitchen. e.g. left on brita mode for filling the sink for washing dishes


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## HoppingMad (16/3/10)

Stick with the tap. It is your friend. 

Only buy the bottled stuff if you are in a remote area where you wouldn't normally drink your water straight anyway. The only people I've heard of buying water for brewing are americans (who have some dodgy water in some states), or people with wells.

Don't know about Perth, but your tap water will vary in a lot of ways depending on the state capital. For example Melbourne Water is commonly seen by many as 'Soft' and Adelaide 'Hard'. A beer like a Coopers is made with Adelaide water, so you will find most Coopers Clone recipes (including those in AHB's Recipe DB) suggest hardening up your tap water by adding 'Calcium Sulphate'. 

A lot of variables in water can effect what your final brew comes out like - the mineral composition (such as calcium and chloride) and the ph (acidity). Many experienced brewers use their tap water, but contact the water authority near them for a detailed report so they can adjust their water to the style they're brewing. I.e. If you're making a Pilsener - you want to make the water softer, if you're making an English Ale - you want harder water generally speaking.

Much of this stuff you really only have to worry about when you're doing all grain or partials as this stuff can effect flavours coming from the way you mash. If you're kit brewing and not entering comps, get the basics down first - then go nuts. Water composition tends to be a subject that only the most experienced venture into.

For more general reading on Brewing & Water, check out John Palmer's 'How to Brew", and Noonan's 'New Brewing Lager Beer'. John Palmer's is more straightforward and Noonan gets more technical.

Cheers,

Hopper.

Edit - Deleted Most References to Melbourne Water profile as OP is in Perth.


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## orwell_g (16/3/10)

> At this stage in your brewing i'd just stick with getting the basics right first. I woudlnt attribute the watry flavour to the water itself, moreso to the lack of residual sugars.



This particular brew did brew at higher temperatures than I had liked, and subsequently faster than usual. This could have contributed negatively to the brew as well msot likely. Luckily I now have a tempmate controlled fridge, so this should hopefully be better for future brews, if the lager I've got in at the moment will ever finish! Should've started with an ale for the first one ...



> it depends where you live..



I'm in perth, the water's not too bad I guess ... Haven't tested to get actual measurements of hardness from the tap water as of yet.



> That said, I only every brew to 21L. If you brew to 23L, you will obviously have beer which is more watery.



That's generally what the kits tell you to fill to (well the coopers kits I've used anyway) ... So should I just be cutting down on my water in my brew?


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## orwell_g (16/3/10)

> Much of this stuff you really only have to worry about when you're doing all grain or partials as this stuff can effect flavours coming from the way you mash. If you're kit brewing and not entering comps, get the basics down first - then go nuts. Water composition tends to be a subject that only the most experienced venture into.



Cheers, that makes it a bit easier.

Thanks to all who replied, puts my mind at ease a bit more now. I want to get a few kits out, then start delving into extract brews. I'll eventually get to all grain, but have a lot to learn before I get there.

Thanks again!


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## Wolfy (16/3/10)

orwell_g said:


> I'm in perth, the water's not too bad I guess ... Haven't tested to get actual measurements of hardness from the tap water as of yet.


You should be able to find the water analysis reports on the company's websie: http://www.watercorporation.com.au/W/water...nnualreport.cfm
There is also a (very) little bit of information about hardness on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water (it seems that Perth's water depends on where you are).


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## orwell_g (17/3/10)

Sweet! Cheers guys, much appreciated for the links and recommendations! Noob brewer at the moment, but very eager to learn!

Cheers again!


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## orwell_g (17/3/10)

Would appear that I have medium/soft water at a range between 124mg and 150mg from the tap.


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## hefevice (17/3/10)

orwell_g said:


> That's generally what the kits tell you to fill to (well the coopers kits I've used anyway) ... So should I just be cutting down on my water in my brew?



Better still, use a hydrometer to measure (and adjust if necessary) your Starting Gravity. That way with the same ingredients the body should be reasonably consistent. If then the body varies, you can be sure other factors are at play.


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## kbe (26/3/10)

I am thinking of getting one of  these as I hate our water due to the age of the pipes everywhere.


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## levin_ae92 (26/3/10)

HoppingMad said:


> A beer like a Coopers is made with Adelaide water, so you will find most Coopers Clone recipes (including those in AHB's Recipe DB) suggest hardening up your tap water by adding 'Calcium Sulphate'.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...



Coopers dont use Adelaide water, they use water from bores and RO it, then build thier own water profile, which is probably a well kept secret.


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## praxis178 (26/3/10)

levin_ae92 said:


> Coopers dont use Adelaide water, they use water from bores and RO it, then build thier own water profile, which is probably a well kept secret.


Ummmm, having lived in Adelaide, I can assure you it's not much of a surprise to me! :lol: The water there is some of the nastiest I've ever tasted and believe me I've been to some places where the recommendation is bring your own water or better still your own beer.... h34r:


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