# Want To Start A Brewery Anyone?!



## Pug (2/6/10)

I was speaking to the guys at IBS here in Sydney the other week and was told that around $200K could get you all brewing equipment you need to start your own little micro brewery. I was stunned! Thought it would have been hundreds of thousands more than that? I was going to suggest that maybe some members would like to all chip in and start one in their "spare" time? Obviously there would have to be a premises found for it but, if anyone has a spare shed and a very understanding wife, I'd certainly be interested in putting some cash into it! Thought I'd put it out there. Food (or drink) for thought as they say.........


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## haysie (2/6/10)

Pug said:


> I was speaking to the guys at IBS here in Sydney the other week and was told that around $200K could get you all brewing equipment you need to start your own little micro brewery. I was stunned! Thought it would have been hundreds of thousands more than that? I was going to suggest that maybe some members would like to all chip in and start one in their "spare" time? Obviously there would have to be a premises found for it but, if anyone has a spare shed and a very understanding wife, I'd certainly be interested in putting some cash into it! Thought I'd put it out there. Food (or drink) for thought as they say.........




Must have great marketing background. The beer wont do it alone.


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## Thommo (2/6/10)

AHB Co-op Brewery? Could be a goer. But who's recipes would be brewed?


I have a VB clone I think is pretty close... :icon_vomit:


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## roller997 (2/6/10)

I am sure if the beer is good enough and you can get access to some premises for direct sales you could do allright.

The challenge is that for $200K I don't think you get a complete setup with a reasonable sized brewhouse. Did you get any ideas on what is included and how big the setup would be? 
I talked to someone in the trade some time ago and he was quoting $100K for just a small 500 liter chinese brewhouse, without fermenters, glycol chilling setup and no bottling or keg cleaning equipment, let alone kegs or serving tanks. 

I only spent a little time looking around when I was more serious about such a venture and the cheapest for a 2 year old brewery (capable of pushing out 2000 liters per shot) for 230,000 Euro plus delivery from the Czech Republic plus installation. This included everything from milling to a bottling & labelling machine. 
I haven't seen anything close to that in terms of decent capacity for a german made setup. Capacity could have been increased with additional fermenters and that kit would have been more advanced than what some of the larger micro breweries run in Melbourne.


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## Swinging Beef (2/6/10)

I know a commercially successful brewery that cost under $10k.
Labor intensive, but it is growing.


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## pbrosnan (2/6/10)

Roller997 said:


> I am sure if the beer is good enough and you can get access to some premises for direct sales you could do allright.
> 
> The challenge is that for $200K I don't think you get a complete setup with a reasonable sized brewhouse. Did you get any ideas on what is included and how big the setup would be?
> I talked to someone in the trade some time ago and he was quoting $100K for just a small 500 liter chinese brewhouse, without fermenters, glycol chilling setup and no bottling or keg cleaning equipment, let alone kegs or serving tanks.
> ...



You know, Dogfish Head started with a 50L Sabco system They did 3 brews a day. I don't know why anyone would throw 200K into brewing equipment when a serviceable 100L system could be fabricated for a 10th of that.


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## cooperplace (2/6/10)

pbrosnan said:


> You know, Dogfish Head started with a 50L Sabco system They did 3 brews a day. I don't know why anyone would throw 200K into brewing equipment when a serviceable 100L system could be fabricated for a 10th of that.




Last time I spoke about this to Alan Dikty in Chicago, he said he can get the complete brewery for quite a lot less than that, including a really good bottling line. But he also says "any fool can make great beer, it's marketing, marketing, marketing that counts" or words to that effect. He's also big on business plans.

Alan knows the microbrew business better than almost anyone on the planet, and is a very nice guy. if you're serious it would be worth talking to him. He's at [email protected]

Re the 50l Sabco system, remember that in a lot of microbrew startups, brewmaster exhaustion is a big problem. Alan says a microbrewery needs at least 15bbl US (I think about 1700 litres) brewing capacity to be viable. When I pointed out that Three Floyds was (at the time) only 5bbl, he pointed out that the owner's father-in-law was a billionaire. 

Peter.


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## HoppingMad (3/6/10)

Dreaming is good. I do it often on this very subject.

For some great inspiration, as someone mentioned - look to Dogfish Head who started small. Get yourself a copy of 'Brewing Up A Business' by Sam Caligione (The Dogfish Founder). It's a ripper book with loads of ideas for a startup brewery, and some hard lessons learned along the way. 

Also realise as others have said that it's not just about making the stuff. Someone has to sell it. Sam Caligione is an excellent salesperson and travels the US educating people about craft beer and hosting beer and food dinners. Kooinda which is a startup here in Melbourne has their guys out at tastings and beer shows spruiking their stuff. These things aren't as glamourous as sitting around shiny vessels and making it, but if you want to get the stuff to where the money is - it's a necessary evil.

Either that, or get yourself a buddy that can sell ice to eskimos!

Good luck,

Hopper.


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## roller997 (3/6/10)

Fully agree that dreaming is good.
While I have the book Brewing up a Business as well as The US Brewing Industry as well as my favourite of the three so far Satarting your Own Brewery (which is an eye opener on some fronts), it would not be very common to start with a small Sabco system and become a viable microbrewer. The transition from a 50 liter system to a 2000 liter system is very expensive and since the GFC, banks have become more hesitant at lending money.

At the end of the day it comes down to your definition of a successful / viable brewery. 
For some folks, they may not mind spending 12-14 hours per day and often 7 days per week to make an hourly rate equivalent or less than the checkout girl at Coles because it permits them to pursue a love for brewing. There is nothing wrong with that and I take my hat off to these folks. Bear in mind that if this is your dream, then you probably just need to make minor upgrades to your current setup and polish your sales skills. The transition as demand increases would be hard as you would basically have to invest big $$$'s to get to a system that you don't need to upgrade again in a few months. 
For others it might be a setup that they build up as a business which has some room for growth if the product becomes successful which may ultimately provide them with an income stream at retirement or a lump sum if they sell the business. This requires some careful planning (including a business plan), some decent sales skills and at some stage marketing. 
Neither are wrong but different people have different approaches, both of which produce good beer.

Is it possible to find out what was included in the $200K

Regards

Roller


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## petesbrew (3/6/10)

Thommo said:


> AHB Co-op Brewery? Could be a goer. But who's recipes would be brewed?
> 
> 
> I have a VB clone I think is pretty close... :icon_vomit:


VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.
A good can opener shouldn't be too expensive.


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## alowen474 (3/6/10)

petesbrew said:


> VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.
> A good can opener shouldn't be too expensive.


You'd just have to get a really big one!!


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## kevin_smevin (3/6/10)

Roller997 said:


> Fully agree that dreaming is good.
> While I have the book Brewing up a Business as well as The US Brewing Industry as well as my favourite of the three so far Satarting your Own Brewery (which is an eye opener on some fronts), it would not be very common to start with a small Sabco system and become a viable microbrewer. The transition from a 50 liter system to a 2000 liter system is very expensive and since the GFC, banks have become more hesitant at lending money.
> 
> At the end of the day it comes down to your definition of a successful / viable brewery.
> ...




One of the lecturers at the Ballarat uni course said to turn a profit you need to sell over 100 000L of beer a year. Thats a lot of beer


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## Sammus (3/6/10)

also there's the whole liquor license thing, I reckon that'd add a fair bit to the cost...probably outweigh the cost of the brewery; I think it's a periodic expense.


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## antains (3/6/10)

petesbrew said:


> VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.



Now's my time to shine!


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## Fents (3/6/10)

yer 200k for a system nice. someone forgot to mention the other costs involed. you have to have a premise's (rent or buy?), tanks calibrated, excise, liquor license, exhaust fans, cleaning chemicals, malt, hops, deliverys, signage and thats just the tip of the iceberg. Then you have to make beer so either give up your day job and earn nothing for a while or kiss your weekends goodbye for the rest of your life. sorry if it sounds jaded, its not but buying a 200K or even a 100Litre sabco system dosnt just cut it, there is soooo much more.


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## cooperplace (3/6/10)

Sammus said:


> also there's the whole liquor license thing, I reckon that'd add a fair bit to the cost...probably outweigh the cost of the brewery; I think it's a periodic expense.




Many potential microbrewers get hung up on equipment and recipe issues, ie the issues affecting the homebrewer. These will be the least of your problems. Bigger problems, ie, more expense, will lie in:

*premises
*licences, taxes, excise, etc, etc, (the list is never-ending)
*loss of income during the startup period -this means however long it takes for the business to start making enough profit to pay a good wage, could be years
*marketing, marketing, marketing and all that is entailed.

The Ballarat Uni lecturer's estimate of sales to be viable sounds accurate to me.

An interesting exercise is to add up ALL the costs that go into a slab of beer: margins are low.

This is not for the faint of heart and I have the greatest admiration for everyone who succeeds in the microbrewery business.

Peter.


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## Kleiny (3/6/10)

yum yum yum said:


> One of the lecturers at the Ballarat uni course said to turn a profit you need to sell over 100 000L of beer a year. Thats a lot of beer



I also remember some timely words:"why would you want to turn a great hobby into a day job that wrecks the hobby forever"

Unless you are a great marketing guru and make a decent $$ the daily grind may just wreck the best pastime you've ever had.

Anybody can buy some gear but the endless paper work and dealing with sections of council, taxation and government may just give you a hatred for a once loved hobby. Its not just brewing its the 10-14hr days + nights + weekends pushing and distributing your product within a marketplace where most pubs and clubs are contracted to major companies who dont like having there sales % cut.

Of course some have done it and still love it but a lot of brewery's fail just look to the USA and remember you will be small business and there are plenty of facts out there about new small business failure rates.

That's all a bit negative but i would expect it to be reality vs dream-time. I know i dream alot about the same only to be grounded by the negatives that seem to creep in every now and then.

By the way its still probably a plan of mine to open an mega successful brewery based on good product and a community passion or why else would i be doing a uni course on brewing and malting.  

Kleiny


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## Fatgodzilla (3/6/10)

Kleiny said:


> I also remember some timely words:"why would you want to turn a great hobby into a day job that wrecks the hobby forever"
> 
> Unless you are a great marketing guru and make a decent $$ the daily grind may just wreck the best pastime you've ever had.
> 
> ...




the point of commercial brewing is to sell your product. There are two types of markets - external (to pubs/clubs/retail bottles) and internal - sell your beer on your premises. The former requires a good product, excellent marketing and volume sales. The latter needs a premise with a large customer turnover. Obvious potential premises will be to own your own pub (costly) a restuarant / nightclub or at a vineyard with cellar sales. One such winery on the south coast now makes a beer sold through the cellar door and seems to be doing okay, though his setup is micro in every sense. And hand bottling. I'm sure there are plenty of examples around.

There is also your definition of mega successful!

But the market is expending. So for one in 1,000 dreamers, one realist will have a go. For 1 in 100 realists, one will be mega successful, a few will be successful and the bulk will get their arses kicked for any number of reasons - but at least they tried. (Alls statistics plucked from my arse like every good beer I have brewed). :icon_cheers:


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## brettprevans (3/6/10)

all good points above. plus the fact that asutralia has become a shitehouse place to startup and run a small business. esp one where there is extra tax involved (so not only business tax, income tax but then excise tax, etc.).

you've got to have some money to loose or keep you afloat or your gambling big time.

but thats being said, if I could turn this hobby into a job, i would. although most likely my involvement in microbreweries will be putting my hard work in corporate governance etc to use in their business' (ie directorships etc).



petesbrew said:


> VB? Pft. We could make a killing on toucan stout.
> A good can opener shouldn't be too expensive.


megaswillers out there wouldnt know the differance. may as well have 2 lines... microbrew and megaswill.


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## Fatgodzilla (3/6/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> all good points above. plus the fact that asutralia has become a shitehouse place to startup and run a small business. esp one where there is extra tax involved (so not only business tax, income tax but then excise tax, etc.).




Fantastic place to set up a small business - if you are an accountant!  phsstt.. anyone want to buy a used accountancy business in Tuross Head? Going cheap ..


And if anyone wants to go into the brewery business, call me first. ! Best alcoholic home brewing accountant in town!


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## WSC (3/6/10)

As much as some people bag contract brews it is really the way to go in my opinion.

Takes the major headaches out of things and lets you focus on didtribution and marketing. Focus on getting volumes and then go to the bank/investment with a proven product and marketing approach. You can get good control over the beer if you want and control what goes into the beer and make the styles you want.

The exception to this would be if you had your own restaurant/pub etc (or bought an existing one in the right area) that you could make into a brew pub, that way you have food and beer sales revenue and maybe even pokies to keep you going. But most importantly you need regular base of customers.

Otherwise your $200k+ investment is going to take a long time to break even and start providing you with a decent income. Unless you can clear $100k profit then the 14 hours, 7 days a week are not going to be worth it. You may as well stick to your day job and enjoy the hobby.


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## pbrosnan (3/6/10)

Seems to me that many people here are looking at the big bang approach. For instance 100, 000 litres a year sounds like huge over kill. I would advocate an incremental approach. I'm amazed that some many people are complaining about how hard it is to start up a small business. If you visit the tourist areas around the country you find many small businesses selling niche products and they're doing OK. Perhaps it's a macho "big is best" thing.


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## Yeastie Beastie (3/6/10)

It is good to have a dream to start your own micro brewery, I know me and swmbo have, and are, working toward it. 
As most have said, taxes, licencing, taxes, suitable premises, taxes etc are the killers.

KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE!!! Work towards it because it wont just fall on your lap.


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## bconnery (3/6/10)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Fantastic place to set up a small business - if you are an accountant!  phsstt.. anyone want to buy a used accountancy business in Tuross Head? Going cheap ..
> 
> 
> And if anyone wants to go into the brewery business, call me first. ! Best alcoholic home brewing accountant in town!



And he'll take payment in kind...
Although that could kill your profits right there


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## Fatgodzilla (3/6/10)

bconnery said:


> And he'll take payment in kind...
> Although that could kill your profits right there




Ben, I like it better when people lie about me rather than say the truth ...

lifted from the site stuffaccountantslike.com (yes we do like some things)




> All accountants are alcoholics. An alcoholic is a person who by definition cannot get enough alcohol and constantly seeks more. Not surprisingly, this fits all accountants, from those who drink by themselves to those who are always dressed for the club while at work.
> 
> Throughout college, accountants grew up on beer. A few of them even took classes on viticulture, which qualifies them as wine experts after two quarters worth of courses. When they have graduated to the workforce, accountants drink beer at company socials, partake of wine at dinners, and down shots at recruiting events. Note that when a company limits drinks at these events, accountants wind up that much more wasted.
> 
> ...



Thank you and good night.


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## unrealeous (3/6/10)

What's the definition of a computer?
An accountant with a personality...

But back onto the topic - I have a decent book called The Microbrewers' Handbook - has a whole lot of case studies of microbrewery startups. UK focused but definitely a good read if you want to get some more insight into what you'd be signing yourself up for....


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## HoppingMad (3/6/10)

I think it's easy to say that the bureaucracy of this country means you can't make money, but you have to think your way around it.

I think there is a reason that many successful craft breweries (and vineyards for that matter) are pairing their drink with some kind of other offering. Whether that's a groovy cellar door set-up, some simple food, a gallery, an annual event, or even accommodation. Or setting themselves up in proximity to a tourist trail so you become another attraction along it. If you can't make money from the beer alone, many are making it from a combination. 

It worked for Dogfish Head. They made more money in their first years from having 'off-centred food' than having 'off-centred ales'. In that example, the food sales paid for the brewery, and for them to experiment away in the 'brew lab' while the hospitality aspect took care of the bills.

But agree with the contract brewing comment, that way is a darn sight cheaper and easier path, and would require much less startup capital.

Hopper.


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## batemanbrewer (4/6/10)

pubreweryrestuarant


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## Phoney (4/6/10)

Hopefully these guys have some luck in lobbying the gubberment in dropping the ridiculous excise taxes from microbreweries to put them on a level playing field with vineyards. It's complete bullshit that we can have such a thriving boutique family-run wine industry that is drawing thousands of tourists and millions of dollars into regional areas, yet we cannot have the same with craft beer because of unfair taxes. 

It might be easy to achieve in the US & UK, but until some serious tax reform is considered in this country, sadly, most of these ideas we have will only ever remain as pipe dreams. 

Government over-regulation in Australia really shits me to tears.


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## domonsura (4/6/10)

Yeastie Beastie said:


> It is good to have a dream to start your own micro brewery, I know me and swmbo have, and are, working toward it.
> As most have said, taxes, licencing, taxes, suitable premises, taxes etc are the killers.
> 
> KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE!!! Work towards it because it wont just fall on your lap.



That last line there is the clincher, NEVER a truer word spoken. If you don't give it a go, you'll never know.

And incidentally - (whoever said Aus is a shite place for small business) if you really think Australia is a shite place to start a business - go and try and start one in NZ. When you go broke and end up back here, you'll realise just how bloody wonderful Australia is for many many reasons, not just the fact that a small business is perfectly viable.....Australia is a wonderful place to start a VIABLE business....a shite business on the other hand is a shite business wherever you put it


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## chappo1970 (4/6/10)

domonsura said:


> That last line there is the clincher, NEVER a truer word spoken. If you don't give it a go, you'll never know.
> 
> And incidentally - (whoever said Aus is a shite place for small business) if you really think Australia is a shite place to start a business - go and try and start one in NZ. When you go broke and end up back here, you'll realise just how bloody wonderful Australia is for many many reasons, not just the fact that a small business is perfectly viable.....Australia is a wonderful place to start a VIABLE business....a shite business on the other hand is a shite business wherever you put it




Now that's the best post I have seen all year. Kudos Wayne! Time we had a beer mate. :beerbang:


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## Mercs Own (4/6/10)

contract brewing cost about $37 per case (last time I got a quote) - but have to commit to 1000 (aib or mildura) cases which means $37000 up front cost. Then you have storage and freight and if you really want to sell it you need a distributor who will try and charge $12 per case (last time I got a quote) now it's cost you $49 per case - a total off $49000 before you have sold it. Bottle shops will buy cases at $55 per case and sell them for $75 (last time I sold my beer to the shops) so you make $6 profit per case although you havent factored in freight, storage, design, fees, your time on the road or petrol costs and the rest.... in short your up against it. Do smaller runs and the costs are greater (it cost me $47 per case to make my beer couldnt afford a distributor)

I have to say that a lot of beer coming out of contract breweries are too similar due in part to them wanting to keep their costs down and therefore getting everyone to use the same yeast strain or grains or bittering hops - just my point of view and backed up through conversations I have had with a number of brewers I have spoken with who have used the contract route. 

I did figures a fair while ago and a general over view is that it costs $2.50 to brew a litre of beer including excise. In a case of beer there is just under 8 litres of beer so that beer represents just under $20 dollars of cost so the other $17 bucks is packaging - thats a fair amount of cost to get your beer out there.

If you have a brewery and are selling your beer over your own bar - you make it for $2.50 a litre and sell it for around $15 bucks a litre - that is a nice little profit.

Yes I know this is all very simple and probably inaccurate because of that but on 8 litres of beer in your pub you make $100 profit where as on contract brewing you will be lucky to make $4.

My point is brewpubresturant - big set up costs but bigger potential for profits (and loss)

Keep in mind that the $200 000 brewery you bought will most likely cost $200 000 to install - slab, refrigeration, gas, electricty, plumbing, glycol, labor, fees, taxes, training, advice etc etc Price does not include building, lease, insurance etc

Why any one would do either is beyond me....but I am in!


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## amiddler (4/6/10)

Anyone that reads Beer and Brewer Mag, may remember the 4 mates that built a brewery in there back yard. It helped them that one was a Stainless steal fabricator and from memory one was in the electrical game so the build was quite cheap. (Cheaper than buying one) I am sure one was in sales as well so getting the brand our was easy. Having said that from the first drawing to selling first carton to the local bottle shop was over 5 years. It was only a 400L system and the boys put out 50 cartons every Saturday. 

If a group of mates are willing to go the long haul in setting up such a brewery, my hat off to you. You have alot more patience than myself. I will stick at making 30L a fortnight for me.

Drew


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## Batz (4/6/10)

You guys need to sit back and relax a bit.

Batz


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## Jono_w (4/6/10)

domonsura said:


> That last line there is the clincher, NEVER a truer word spoken. If you don't give it a go, you'll never know.
> 
> And incidentally - (whoever said Aus is a shite place for small business) if you really think Australia is a shite place to start a business - go and try and start one in NZ. When you go broke and end up back here, you'll realise just how bloody wonderful Australia is for many many reasons, not just the fact that a small business is perfectly viable.....Australia is a wonderful place to start a VIABLE business....a shite business on the other hand is a shite business wherever you put it




This^ , my friends sums it up beautifully.

There is not a day I don't think about owning my own brewery , bar or restaurant and it is a goal that I have set myself, so enough of the hard facts and dollar figures bringing peoples dreams to a abrupt end.
I believe in being realistic but some things have to be left to chance..

If you want to make money, Get a job. 

If you want to make something of your life, have a go. 

Passion is what it's all about.

Cheers..


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## IainMcLean (4/6/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> I know a commercially successful brewery that cost under $10k.
> Labor intensive, but it is growing.




Really? Who / where?


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## pbrosnan (4/6/10)

Scroll down to the bottom of this, most are producing <= 50K litres

http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/s...icrobrewers.pdf


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## roller997 (5/6/10)

The key to a startup microbrewery seems to be:

Sell on premises via a brewpub type setup since you
a) Pay less in excise than packaging smaller than 48 liters ( I thought it was about $1.85 per liter when I checked some time ago)
B) You don't pay for distribution or for retail margin
c) Your packaging costs are signficiantly lower
d) Less likely to keep on buying kegs to replenish "lost" property
d) You have full control over quality of lines & freshness of beer
e) It builds your brand so you can get ready for the next step to distribute your wares.
f) You have greater diversity in terms of your income

The risk (beyond cost of an appropriate liquor license) is obviously picking the right place at the best location you can afford and some heavy promotion / marketing of the (presumably) old pub to bring new customers to it

Have we had any indication what the $200K is supposed to include / not include and how big it was?

An ideal setup would be a central brewery in an industrial area with great water which services a number of direct sales outlets - Pretty much the way that Redback started up - From what I was told, they had their main production facility in one place and then had nice shiny copper vessels at the pubs which may have served as pilot breweries

Cheers

Roller


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## /// (5/6/10)

A much wiser man once said to me, 'you can make as much beer as you want, but how are you going sell it?'. For Rocks Brewing it was a case of taking over our own cellar door aka Harts Pub.

The production side really is the easy bit, but walk into most pubs in Sydney and you'll have 1 or if your lucky 2 taps 'free' (i.e. uncontracted). So for Rocks we have our own site and own our own taps and we are booming along.

I agree with Paul on the contract production (and those numbers are pretty much spot on), brewers beware! Control your sales and you will have a business, trust it in the hands of others and well .... it will be come 'interesting' with deep pockets needed.

All the set-up stuff like licensing and council is not that hard if you have all the correct information and support and is just something to go through. That does not last as long as the year on year sales stuff, unfortunately sales is what it is all about regardless what you do.

Scotty


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## mxd (5/6/10)

it's been shown before but a starting point could be this one. A bit of info about it


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## seemax (5/6/10)

Roller997 said:


> An ideal setup would be a central brewery in an industrial area with great water which services a number of direct sales outlets - Pretty much the way that Redback started up - From what I was told, they had their main production facility in one place and then had nice shiny copper vessels at the pubs which may have served as pilot breweries
> Cheers
> 
> Roller



Think: 2 Brothers in Moorabbin

Only open Thu/Fri nights. Good/great beer at reasonable prices, nice industrial atmosphere, live music at times, heck even saw Colin Hay (Men at Work) there few months back. They imported the brew gear from the USA, the actual pub is essentially a concrete slab with a bar and chairs so not a huge cost to setup. Do they make money - probably not a heap but as already said it's for the love. They also bottle their beer but never bothered trying it as the stuff on tap is so close to home!


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## hatchor (5/6/10)

warning: 13 pots down.......
along the lines of a previous response......

I love fabricating a recipe, tweaking previous attempts and I really enjoy the actual process of making the beer, just as much as I love drinking beer. I dream about "owning a brewery". Who doesn't?

However, how much do we really think about owning, operating, being liable for and responsible to a brewery?? I always dream about the good shit, and none of the bad, isn't that what dreams are for? I also know that I am not motivated enough to work for myself....  

I am very happy leaving my beer making as a hobby, as it has worked brilliantly for a few years now. I would hate to ruin my love for this hobby by making it a "job" where I had to "work"; Rather I prefer to leave it as a home based passion and a _slight _ obsession that I love and will continue to do as long as I can.

Having said that, I am not disinclined to work in a brewery, so if anybody starts one where they would like me to "work", and where I don't have any after hours concerns, then I would consider it depending of course on wage......  

But until that happens, my brewery is big enough for me already, and I turn out stuff I really enjoy. Thats all that matters eh?
:beerbang:


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## HoppingMad (7/6/10)

yum yum yum said:


> One of the lecturers at the Ballarat uni course said to turn a profit you need to sell over 100 000L of beer a year. Thats a lot of beer



Is that's why they're a lecturer and not running a commercial enterprise? Because its all too hard? If everyone thought this way imagine how crap the craft beer scene would be in Australia. You don't have to start making this much beer.

If you look behind the numbers you'll realise that yep, most micros started on 400L systems brewing small numbers and not turning profits right away but those who have persisted are doing well and are now brewing 150,000L per year and employing others.

Here's an example - two guys who most would have heard of by now. Basically started when Tooheys & CUB were in a pub buying war and locked everyone's distribution out of most pubs - one of the toughest times to start something like this. They started with $10,000 according to the article. Not $200,000. A little passion goes a long way - as well as a willingness to hand cap bottles in their thousands (that's what these guys did prior to being able to afford a bottling line).

Old Mountain Goat Article

Hopper.


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