# Yeast Nutrient



## thunderchild (15/6/09)

Hello,

I vaguely remember reading that old yeast chucked into the boil serves as a yeast nutrient? Does this ring true to anyone??


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## peas_and_corn (15/6/09)

Yes- throw it in the boil and it will work as nutrient. It's what a lot of people do with their kit yeast.


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## thunderchild (15/6/09)

So if I made too much in a starter, could I throw the surplus in? and is their a limit to how much should be added?

Thanks

TC


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## cozmocracker (15/6/09)

also at what stage of the boil do you add the yeast, im planning on using up some old kit yeasts, and what are the benefits?

cheers cozmo


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## peas_and_corn (15/6/09)

thunderchild said:


> So if I made too much in a starter, could I throw the surplus in? and is their a limit to how much should be added?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> TC



I'm not sure if having too much yeast in a starter will ever be an issue at a HB level.




cozmocracker said:


> also at what stage of the boil do you add the yeast, im planning on using up some old kit yeasts, and what are the benefits?
> 
> cheers cozmo



I normally add at 15min.


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## Interloper (15/6/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> I'm not sure if having too much yeast in a starter will ever be an issue at a HB level.
> I normally add at 15min.



Interesting. Will it impart any flavour? Or does boiling it kill off everything?

How does boiled dead yeast act as a nutrient? 

(I ask because I have a tonne of kit yeasts, some from the Coopers premium range, that I'd consider doing this with if it won't mess with my flavours)


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## peas_and_corn (15/6/09)

Boiling will kill yeast off, 15 will be enough time.

Apparently yeast eat their dead, which is why it's good to use as a nutrient. It doesn't mess with the flavour (well, I haven't noticed!)


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## Interloper (15/6/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Boiling will kill yeast off, 15 will be enough time.
> 
> Apparently yeast eat their dead, which is why it's good to use as a nutrient. It doesn't mess with the flavour (well, I haven't noticed!)



Cool, I might throw one of my Coopers Wheat Beer kit yeasts in the boil to feed my Danstar Munich when I brew a wheatie.


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## claymen (15/6/09)

I was looking into this the other day and yer a simple boilup kills the yeast and then that becomes a nice nutrient to chuck in.

Seems like a great way to use up all the kit yeast people have around the place.


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## benno1973 (15/6/09)

I always keep a bit of yeast from my yeast cake and add it to the boiling wort I make for the next starter. Same thing I guess.


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## claymen (15/6/09)

Wouldn't that impart some of the flavours from the original beer? Or are you straining it out with a paper filter or something and washing till its reasonable clean?


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## benno1973 (15/6/09)

Doesn't seem to impart any flavours. I take a tablespoon of the yeast cake and boil it up with some DME, cool and use that as my starter for my yeast. Before I pitch I drain off the wort and just pitch the yeast. The amount of flavour from the previous batch would be negligible.


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## LLoyd (15/6/09)

does it have something to do with nitrogen?


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## haysie (15/6/09)

LloydieP said:


> does it have something to do with nitrogen?



Apparently so, more intended for meads and beers with sugar etc.
All malt is so rich you may as well chuck a handfull of chook shit in the boil. At least will produce more nutrient for the lawn or compost bin than the bakers yeast when throwing out the trub.


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## t2000kw (15/6/09)

You can actually buy a product that is essentially dead yeast packaged as a nutrient:

http://www.lallemand.com/Brewing/eng/PDFs/...A4%20juil03.pdf

It's designed to be a bit better than just old dried yeast, but this underscores the fact that old dried yeast (which I have a lot of) can be used as a nutrient. 

An earlier post in this forum made me aware that Lallemand makes more yeasts for brewing beer than just Nottingham and Windsor (someone mentioned their Munich strain). 

Is the following one commonly available in Australia? Is it any good? (I should probably post this again in another forum, but let's see what response I get here first.)

http://www.lallemand.com/Brewing/eng/PDFs/...Sept%202004.pdf

Don


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## reviled (15/6/09)

Interloper said:


> Cool, I might throw one of my Coopers Wheat Beer kit yeasts in the boil to feed my Danstar Munich when I brew a wheatie.



Carefull, it smells like absolute shit!!! :icon_vomit: Seriously, its really bad! Sure it works as a nutrient, but personally id rather shell out the $4 for a tube of Wyeast nutrient which has allready lasted me 5 brews and ive got half the tube left...


I couldnt get the smell of boiled yeast out of my kitchen for days <_<


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## MHB (15/6/09)

I don't know about the Lallemand specifically, there are several others available, including one from Wyeast and others.

They are made from autolysied yeast with added vitamins and minerals (especially Zinc) in fact everything for a growing yeast. The one I use only recommends about 40g/1000L so about 1g/standard brew.

Just watch that you aren't getting quoted for DAP (Di Ammonium Phosphate) which is just Nitrogen fertiliser, rather than a complete food.

MHB


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## Ross (15/6/09)

t2000kw said:


> You can actually buy a product that is essentially dead yeast packaged as a nutrient:
> 
> http://www.lallemand.com/Brewing/eng/PDFs/...A4%20juil03.pdf
> 
> ...




Don,

Windsor, Nottingham & Munich are readily available, the lager yeast is no longer available due to its short shelf life (6 months against 2 years for the rest of the range) & lack of demand.

cheers Ross


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## muckanic (16/6/09)

MHB said:


> They are made from autolysied yeast with added vitamins and minerals (especially Zinc) in fact everything for a growing yeast. The one I use only recommends about 40g/1000L so about 1g/standard brew.



That quantity looks tiny (about 1/7 tsp). I have seen calculations suggesting about 1.5g yeast per L in order to provide the entire amino needs of an average strength brew. However, even the most malt deficient extract kit will happily attenuate about 2/3 of what it might be expected to do. From that, I calculate that the supplementary nutrient requirements are about 0.5g yeast per L, or 1.5 tsp per standard brew. There is a school of thought that inorganic nutrients like DAP should be added later in the fermentation in order to force the (live) yeast to metabolise all the amino acids and vent off sulphides, and this reasonably could also apply to organic nutrients like dead yeast. The exception, however, is yeast starters, where all the nutrient should be supplied up-front.


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## muckanic (19/6/09)

A correction on those numbers. Teaches me for posting from memory.

Using 4g dried yeast per L, an all-sugar brew will happily munch through 50 gravity points before it starts to slow down. Now, less nutrient is needed for beer, for two reasons. One is that beers only ever attenuate about 75%, and the second is that the malt at worst generally provides about 67% of the amino nutrients. So that works out to a requirement of 1g/L supplement.

100g dried yeast occupies 2/3 cup or 9 Tsp. An average-strength brew of 1050, for a standard volume of 22.5L, requires 22.5g dried yeast or about 2 Tsp supplement. That is about three packets of unwanted kit yeast. Add 50% for strong Belgians, extra stouts, old ales and the like. Double that quantity for barley wines. Note that the yeast precipitates rapidly, which is a good reason not to add it to any wort that will subsequently be racked (like off the boiler trub). Contrary to rumour, it doesn't add a vegemite note. Any yeast that looks granular is still alive and needs to be boiled, whereas pulverised stuff like torula yeast doesn't.


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## felten (19/6/09)

Perhaps now I'll have a chance to use up my 280g tin of lowan bakers yeast ^_^


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## Mikedub (29/7/11)

muckanic said:


> A correction on those numbers. Teaches me for posting from memory.
> 
> Using 4g dried yeast per L, an all-sugar brew will happily munch through 50 gravity points before it starts to slow down. Now, less nutrient is needed for beer, for two reasons. One is that beers only ever attenuate about 75%, and the second is that the malt at worst generally provides about 67% of the amino nutrients. So that works out to a requirement of 1g/L supplement.
> 
> 100g dried yeast occupies 2/3 cup or 9 Tsp. An average-strength brew of 1050, for a standard volume of 22.5L, requires 22.5g dried yeast or about 2 Tsp supplement. That is about three packets of unwanted kit yeast. Add 50% for strong Belgians, extra stouts, old ales and the like. Double that quantity for barley wines. Note that the yeast precipitates rapidly, which is a good reason not to add it to any wort that will subsequently be racked (like off the boiler trub). Contrary to rumour, it doesn't add a vegemite note. Any yeast that looks granular is still alive and needs to be boiled, whereas pulverised stuff like torula yeast doesn't.



I missed adding yeast nutrient to the wort boil, so last night I boiled up 2 old yeast packets in 300mil water for 20 mins and transferred to a sterile jar, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it smells friggen awful, 

can I hydrate a pack of us05 straight into this jar before pitching the lot together ya reckon?


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## muckanic (29/7/11)

Mikedub said:


> can I hydrate a pack of us05 straight into this jar before pitching the lot together ya reckon?



The problem is that that's not really hydration. The live yeast will sense that it is in a highly concentrated nutrient environment, and that could confuse it regarding the various substances that it needs to start manufacturing.


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## Mikedub (29/7/11)

makes sense, cheers

btw, when boiling up the two 7g packets I'm pretty sure I could hear the tiny screams of 280 billion yeasties,


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## Bats (21/4/13)

I have heaps of dried yeast packets that are no good for fermenting.

I am currently brewing a 20L ESB. Should I only put 1 packet in @15 or so or will 2 packets be better?

Is too much old yeast as nutrient detrimental?


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## Glot (15/11/13)

Would throwing a swiss zinc tablet into the fermenter do any good? They seem to contain most of what yeast needs. If thrown into the boil, a lot of the B vitamins would be lost from heat. Have also read that half a teaspoon of vegemite is also a help if nothing else available. I am guessing you don't put it on toast first. Anyone have any comments on these two?


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