# NOOB YEAST QUESTION



## bungers81 (15/3/15)

Hi

Have been doing all grain for around 6 months and using dry yeast with the sprinkle method (I know I should have done a starter). I have just ordered Wyeast 3724 through Grain and Grape. Just wanting to know what I have to do for a starter for this yeast. Done a search and got a lot of conflicting information. I am usually not patient with beers, but this one I am going to be (put Coopers Kits on for my non beer appreciating mates).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Clint.


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## Judanero (15/3/15)

Dry yeast doesn't require a starter, recommended to rehydrate but you'll hear conflicting reports on whether people think that's necessary. 

Imo if manufacturers are recommending it, and people with a greater knowledge on yeast/cell cycle than I are as well, then that's good enough for me.

For liquid yeast aim for 1.040 gravity, which is around 100g LDME per litre of water for the starter you're making.
Check out mrmalty online calculator to help you figure out the correct amount of yeast to pitch for your batch, it will take into account the date of manufacture of your smackpack, your method of aerating starter, and target gravity of your wort, and then tell you how large a starter to make to get your yeast cell count in the ballpark.


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## Yob (15/3/15)

What will be your target gravity and volume?


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## bungers81 (16/3/15)

Yob said:


> What will be your target gravity and volume?


1.010-1.012 and 21 litres


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## indica86 (16/3/15)

Liquid yeast does not require a starter.


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## Yob (16/3/15)

Depends on the starting gravity and volume.. Also the age of 
the yeast.

What is the starting gravity?


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/3/15)

indica86 said:


> Liquid yeast does not require a starter.


Some one started a thread on that exact topic, cant remember who, but man, it was epic... :lol:


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## Goose (16/3/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Some one started a thread on that exact topic, cant remember who, but man, it was epic... :lol:


I preferred the dried yeast rehydration one.


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## danestead (16/3/15)

G'day Clint,

I'll step you through how to figure out what size starter to make for your Saison you are making because I know it can be confusing at the beginning, however it is really quite simple once you know what you are trying to achieve.

Lets say your 3724 Saison yeast was manufactured on 19th Feb (the date will be stamped on the front of your packet).
Your original gravity you are expecting from your beer is 1.050 (the higher the gravity, the more yeast you want to pitch)
You are going to be fermenting 21L

I like to use the yeast calculator at this link because it allows me to calculate stepped starters easily. Don't worry about them at this stage, a single stage starter should be fine.

http://www.yeastcalc.co/pitchratecalculator.php


Starting at the top left, you are using an ale yeast so select 'Ale' in the drop down box. This is 1 of the variables to how much yeast you pitch. Lagers need about twice as much yeast as ales.
Type 21L into the next box and 1.050 into the OG box.
In the 'Liquid yeast Properties' box you leave the initial cell count as 100 billion as that is how much yeast was originally viable in your wyeast packet.
Put in the Production date (19 Feb in this example). It tells you that it expects you to have 79% or 79 billion viable cells now (assuming it has been handled and stored under good conditions - fridge).
You should only need to do 1 step so under '1st Step' select 'Stir plate - J. Zainesheff - this is my preferred option for my stir plate. If you don't have a stir plate, select either 'None' or 'Intermittent Shaking'.
Now keep adjusting the 'Starter Volume' until 'Total cells at finish' is the same or similar to 'Yeast cells needed' (top right of the page). This example requires ideally 195 billion cells, so a 1L starter is about right.

Now for doing the actual starter.

Take the wyeast packet out of your fridge and smack it so that the nutrient packet inside ruptures. Don't be scared, its pretty hard to burst the whole thing so don't worry too much about getting yeast everywhere.
A 2L erlenmayer flask is ideal for a 1L starter so if you have one of those it is perfect. Measure out 100g of Light DME (Light dry malt extract) into the flask then fill to just over the 1L mark. You will be boiling this for 10 minutes so I always allow a little bit for evaporation. This will have given you a gravity of about 1.040ish. That is an ideal gravity to grow up yeast in a starter. There is also a calculator on the left hand side of that page if you need help but its always 100g per 1L of starter when using DME.
I put my erlenmayer flask straight onto my gas stove and turn it on. Once it reaches a boil, let it boil or simmer away for 10min or greater. This sterilises the starter. Once 10 minutes is up, turn off the gas and place the flask in your sink which has water and ice in there to cool it down. Put some alfoil which has been sanitised with starsan or similar over the top of the flask at this stage.
Let the starter cool to about 20 degrees. Once it is at 20 degrees you can sterilise some scissors and the wyeast packet then snip the corner off and pour the yeast in. Don't snip too much of the corner off because otherwise you will end up pouring the nutrient packaging in that you burst earlier on.
Slide in a sanitised stir bar and put the alfoil back over the top.
Stick it on your stir plate or whatever and leave it at generally room temperature (18-24 degrees which is best for growth of yeast - note, you arent trying to brew a good tasting starter (beer) here, you are trying to grow healthy yeast).
After a day or so you will likely notice a head or krausen on your starter and lots of little co2 bubbles rising in the starter. Once that has all finished your starter is finished. There is also a method of pitching a starter at 'high krausen' but I'll leave it up to you to research that at a later time.

Cheers.


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## bungers81 (16/3/15)

danestead said:
 

> G'day Clint,
> 
> I'll step you through how to figure out what size starter to make for your Saison you are making because I know it can be confusing at the beginning, however it is really quite simple once you know what you are trying to achieve.
> 
> ...


Thanks. That post was impressively helpful.

Have got "How to brew" by John Palmer, and gave it a read today. Downloaded Mr.Malty yeast calculator today and beer Smith last week. Will give that link you payed a go. Once again, thanks, got a lot to learn.

Have also got more things to my shopping list


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## danestead (16/3/15)

bungers81 said:


> Thanks. That post was impressively helpful.
> 
> Have got "How to brew" by John Palmer, and gave it a read today. Downloaded Mr.Malty yeast calculator today and beer Smith last week. Will give that link you payed a go. Once again, thanks, got a lot to learn.


It seems like a lot of steps, but it isn't really and is quite simple.

With Mr. Malty, just make sure you have the slider at the bottom set to use 1 packet of yeast because it often comes up with 2 or more.


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## hoppinmad (16/3/15)

indica86 said:


> Liquid yeast does not require a starter.


That would be a typo then I imagine? Surely you meant to say DRIED yeast doesn't require a starter. If not can you elaborate your answer?


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## indica86 (16/3/15)

HoppinMad said:


> Surely you meant to say DRIED yeast doesn't require a starter.


I typed what I meant.
In my LIMITED use of liquid yeasts - being 5 white labs vials - all have worked perfectly well pitched directly into wort. I reused without rinsing about 5 times each too.
Not best practise but worked.


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## Yob (16/3/15)

It's still dependent on age, gravity and volume mate..


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## indica86 (16/3/15)

Yeah I know, I wasn't arguing that. Just answering the questions.


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## mje1980 (17/3/15)

Don't need to wear a condom either. Probably be fine.


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## Blind Dog (17/3/15)

mje1980 said:


> Don't need to wear a condom either. Probably be fine.


personslly I always wear a condom when pitching liquid yeast. Nothing else mind


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## danestead (17/3/15)

you dont need yeast at all. just stick the fermenter in the backyard with the lid off


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## fcmcg (17/3/15)

indica86 said:


> I typed what I meant.
> In my LIMITED use of liquid yeasts - being 5 white labs vials - all have worked perfectly well pitched directly into wort. I reused without rinsing about 5 times each too.
> Not best practise but worked.


No offence but its pretty big handing out advice that is quit definite , when you have only usued liquid yeast 5 times.As has ben stated , OG , manufacture date and viability all play a part.As you have also stated , your yeast usage isn't best practice.I'm sure you make beer that is acceptable to your palate.
Yes I'm sure you ended up with your yeast working...but i reckon your first ferment , included of some stressed little yeasties...your second ferment would have been quicker to take off , because you had plenty of healthy yeast cells ( and a few dead ones ) .Mutational change over your 5 batches would also mean that batch 1 tasted different to batch five ...


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## indica86 (17/3/15)

Apologies then, I will refrain from adding my experience.
I never said it was the best thing to do. I purely answered the question. Is a starter required - no.


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## Blind Dog (17/3/15)

indica86 said:


> Apologies then, I will refrain from adding my experience.
> I never said it was the best thing to do. I purely answered the question. Is a starter required - no.


Maybe expand your post to make that clear? Apologies if it makes me sound like a sanctimonious pr*ck, but it's St Paddy's day and he's surely the patron Saint of sanctimonious pr**ks, green beer and snakes


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## bungers81 (17/3/15)

To add fuel the fire/add to the confusion (refer picture). Will still be making a starter for this when time permits. Was planning a brew day on Friday but will more than likely have to wait till Friday week now. To busy with work to do this properly. I am going to be very patient worth this brew this time.


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## Judanero (17/3/15)

If you're brewing on the Friday, smack the pack Thursday morning,make a starter Thursday night, pitch the whole thing starter and yeast Friday arvo... that should round about have you pitching at high krausen (which will ideally be pitched within a couple degrees of your wort).

Or you could smack the pack Tuesday morning, make the starter Tuesday night, let it ferment out (should be done by Thurs morning) put into fridge to chill it down and drop all the yeast to the bottom. About an hour before you're ready to pitch take it out of the fridge and decant off all the liquid bar about 1" and let it warm to room temp- pitch when wort is ready.

Oxygenate or aerate wort before pitching yeast.


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