# New PID Build - Help.



## Hoptimus Prime (10/6/13)

Hey guys,

I've been trolling the site for a while but i cant quite find what im looking for, well something i can understand anyway. I want to build a PID controller for a RIMS or HERMS HEX unit. A simple PID in a box with a switch to power on the element, so the PID can still be on.

I am open for any ideas on variations that would work better, but I'd like to keep it simple.
Nothing more than 1 PID, 1 element and switch maybe 1 pump and switch.

A little help with parts and a wiring diagram an idiot can read would be great!


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## seamad (10/6/13)

You'll probably need to run the element through a SSR. Check out auber instruments website. They have several different pid's that are suitable for brewing. In the downloadable instructions for each pid there are wiring diagrams for various uses including brewing. I've wired up 2 and haven't killed anyone yet, but if you are not sure get your wiring checked.


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## Tex083 (11/6/13)

Get an Auber ramp/ soak PID with the 2" NPT RTD sensor with the deluxe cable. There is a few write ups on this site on building PID boxes.
I posted some pics of mine. I can't link the post on my phone bit have a seach and it should be easy to locate. The switch for the element will give you the most grief, you need a 10a DPST switch. Double pole single throw. It switches both neg and pos 
If you need more info PM me and I will help you as much as I can.


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## Truman42 (11/6/13)

If you read my thread in the DIY forum you can see what QldKev and I are building and links to the cam switches and led lights you may want to use.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/72614-my-brew-controller-box/


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## Hoptimus Prime (12/6/13)

Cheers guys, so what im looking at is the following

PID: w/ Ramp/soak, Kiln (SSR Output)
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4

Temp Probe (delux cable) : RTD sensor, 1.5 inch, 1/2 NPT Thread
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249

SSR : 25A SSR
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=9

Heat Sink : External 25A Heatsink
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=244

Switch: 2-Position Maintained 2 NO
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=241

RCA Jack and plug
Jaycar Jiffy Box
10A GPO

have i missed anything?


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## Tex083 (12/6/13)

Yeah all looks good, get a large jiffy box I did so I could mount a 240-12v transformer to run my brown pump.
I would use a surface mount 240v outlet. http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=PS4094&form=CAT2&SUBCATID=1001#12
I got my SSR and heat sink from eBay HEAPS cheaper, get 2 or 3 SSR's as the first didn't work for me 
Jaycar not sure what your switching I would get a illuminated switch from Jaycar
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SK0982 it's the same thing as the Auber switch just looks different. It will switch 2 channels, 1 positive and 1 negative.

Hope this helps, I got the long and flat one that mounts inside the box
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com.au/viewitem?index=0&sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=150955906358

That should be it. PM me any questions you have.


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## seamad (12/6/13)

> I got my SSR and heat sink from eBay HEAPS cheaper, get 2 or 3 SSR's as the first didn't work for me


So not really cheaper ?

The auber ssr aren't that exxy, have been happy with mine. If you are just running a 10A element the 25A SSR should be fine, especially with the external heatsink.


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## Tex083 (12/6/13)

seamad said:


> So not really cheaper ?
> 
> The auber ssr aren't that exxy, have been happy with mine. If you are just running a 10A element the 25A SSR should be fine, especially with the external heatsink.


Oh my bad, it was the Jaycar ones that were around $50 each! I would just get the Auber ones if your paying postage anyway. My dad ordered my PID with his for his Kiln.
The heatsink from Auber is EXTERNAL I used on inside the box and it works well, doesnt get hot at all (the box - no idea about the relay).
My PID: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70588-my-pid-enclosure/

After reading the Auber site, I think the "deluxe"cable comes with the panel mount... not 100% might be worth an email.


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## seamad (13/6/13)

Thought that sounded like a bit of fuzzy logic (boom tish)

The auber internal heatsinks are fine for 10A load, the external 15A.


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

The deluxe cable from auber does come with a panel mount.

Whats the RCA plug and socket for, your pump?

Not sure what the jiffy boxes at jaycar are going to cost you but I used a first aid box from Bunnings and they were only around $30 from memory for the small one.


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## Parks (13/6/13)

Truman said:


> The deluxe cable from auber does come with a panel mount.


They definitely do - mine arrived yesterday.



Truman said:


> Not sure what the jiffy boxes at jaycar are going to cost you but I used a first aid box from Bunnings and they were only around $30 from memory for the small one.


The cheapest one on their website is $39 listed as being 100mm deep (I assume external dimensions). Was there any problem with fitting the PID in? I measured mine at nearly smack on 100mm.

(mine is the Auberns SYL-2352P)


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## Tex083 (13/6/13)

On my control box the RCA plugs are for the 12v pump, now with a PWM speed controller.


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

Parks said:


> They definitely do - mine arrived yesterday.
> 
> The cheapest one on their website is $39 listed as being 100mm deep (I assume external dimensions). Was there any problem with fitting the PID in? I measured mine at nearly smack on 100mm.
> 
> (mine is the Auberns SYL-2352P)


i dont know yet as they still havent bloody arrived.

But....thats 100 mm from the front to the back and as part of it protrudes out the front Im hoping it will fit. if not I may have to cut out a section on the back wall and put a cover over it somehow.

They will fit in the larger first aid cabinet which is what Kev used.


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## Parks (13/6/13)

Truman said:


> i dont know yet as they still havent bloody arrived.
> 
> But....thats 100 mm from the front to the back and as part of it protrudes out the front Im hoping it will fit. if not I may have to cut out a section on the back wall and put a cover over it somehow.
> 
> They will fit in the larger first aid cabinet which is what Kev used.


Yeah, only that the larger one is $20 more 

I might take my controller to Bunnings on the weekend and see for myself. By the looks it shouldn't matter if it touches the back. Just need to be *extra very* careful not to have any loose wires or metal bits short out.


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## Parks (13/6/13)

Truman said:


> But....thats 100 mm from the front to the back and as part of it protrudes out the front Im hoping it will fit. if not I may have to cut out a section on the back wall and put a cover over it somehow.


Oh, I misread your post. It's 100mm (or very nearly) inside the box. I measured from the back of the rubber seal to the back of the housing. The terminals are nicely recessed so they won't be able to short out.


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## QldKev (13/6/13)

Also if it's too close as Truman mentioned to me prior, just throw a flat sheet of rubber in there to insulate it. Even a 2L ice-cream container lid stuck to the back should offer protection.


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

QldKev said:


> Also if it's too close as Truman mentioned to me prior, just throw a flat sheet of rubber in there to insulate it. Even a 2L ice-cream container lid stuck to the back should offer protection.


Just going to mention that...Thanks Kev..


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

Parks said:


> They definitely do - mine arrived yesterday.
> 
> The cheapest one on their website is $39 listed as being 100mm deep (I assume external dimensions). Was there any problem with fitting the PID in? I measured mine at nearly smack on 100mm.
> 
> (mine is the Auberns SYL-2352P)


When did you place your Auberins order? I ordered mine on the 29/05?


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## Parks (13/6/13)

Truman said:


> When did you place your Auberins order? I ordered mine on the 29/05?


31/05 our time, date on the invoice from them is 30/05.

I got it on Tuesday, or yesterday - brain not work so good.


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

Parks said:


> 31/05 our time, date on the invoice from them is 30/05.
> 
> I got it on Tuesday, or yesterday - brain not work so good.


Damn it, I wonder where the bloody hell mines got to then.


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## Parks (13/6/13)

Truman said:


> Damn it, I wonder where the bloody hell mines got to then.


Did they send you USPS tracking? It only told me when it left the US which was on June 5.


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

Parks said:


> Did they send you USPS tracking? It only told me when it left the US which was on June 5.


Mine departed USPS sort facility in Miami Florida on June 3rd. So I should have received It by now going on how long ours took to arrive.

I ordered a Sestos from eBay on the same day and haven't received that yet either.


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## Hoptimus Prime (13/6/13)

Good to go, 

The switch was so I can manually power on the element, not necessary if you can power it down to zero on the PID, just would be nice.

The RCA were for the temp probe, http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/temperature-probes

I can pick up a cheapish jiffy box at jaycar or better still an electrical wholesaler. Might check out bunnings as well, thanks Truman

Plan on having a sparky mate check over everything, if there is room for a 240V pump I'm hoping a few frosty tops will persuade him to add it in for me.

I still have no bloody idea how to wire this thing.


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## Truman42 (13/6/13)

You want an XLR plug for your probe not an RCA plug. The RCA plugs are only two wire and the probes have 3 wires. But if you buy the deluxe cable from Auberins you will get a panel mount connector anyway as previously mentioned.

I could post my wiring diagram but its for 2 pids, 3 SSRs, and multiple switches. But I think Kev might have something to suit your setup if you ask him nicely.


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## Parks (17/6/13)

Bunnings at Oxley (Brisbane) didn't have any of the small first aid boxes but they most certainly will be a touch small. I measure 98.5mm internal depth required and that will be touching the back panel.

I just ordered one of these which has 120mm external dimensions so *should* be perfect and was $53 delivered. 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300920471240

I will report once it arrives...


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## 5150 (18/6/13)

Sorry, A little off topic but some reliance too.

I just ordered a PID Digital Temperature Controller 0 to 400℃+ K Sensor With 25DA SSR EA. from China. Was this a mistake??

I just ordered one as I wanted to see what it was like before started building a full control system.

This whole home Brewing is now consuming my life, (and money). I now spend far too many hours obsessed with it :blush: . Bought a stir plate, flask and welder today.


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## The Village Idiot (18/6/13)

5150 said:


> Sorry, A little off topic but some reliance too.
> 
> I just ordered a PID Digital Temperature Controller 0 to 400℃+ K Sensor With 25DA SSR EA. from China. Was this a mistake??
> 
> ...


Been looking at these...... the confusing programming stuff in previous posts is scaring me back to basic BIAB.


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## QldKev (18/6/13)

5150 said:


> Sorry, A little off topic but some reliance too.
> 
> I just ordered a PID Digital Temperature Controller 0 to 400℃+ K Sensor With 25DA SSR EA. from China. Was this a mistake??
> 
> ...



Maybe a link could help, there are a few that fit that description. 
But the K-Type probes supplied with these are shit. You will need another probe





The Village Idiot said:


> Been looking at these...... the confusing programming stuff in previous posts is scaring me back to basic BIAB.


That is nothing like the programmable Auber 2352P pid. It is a single temperature pid. Not really any harder than a stc.


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## 5150 (18/6/13)

Thanks QldKev, This is the one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PID-Digital-Temperature-Controller-0-to-400-K-Sensor-With-25DA-SSR-New-ER99-/121084946919?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c3139a9e7&_uhb=1

Is it a PT100 probe that I whould be looking for?

Cheers.


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## Grainer (18/6/13)

Found an electrical outlet around the corner that does a lot of the switches ssts.. etc

Ill try find their names


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## Grainer (18/6/13)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/72705-sale-panel-mount-connector-for-rtd-sensor/



RTD connectors
have these if u want them


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## QldKev (18/6/13)

5150 said:


> Thanks QldKev, This is the one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PID-Digital-Temperature-Controller-0-to-400-K-Sensor-With-25DA-SSR-New-ER99-/121084946919?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c3139a9e7&_uhb=1
> 
> Is it a PT100 probe that I whould be looking for?
> 
> Cheers.



The SSR is great. I'm using 6 of them in my current control panel build.

I tested one of those K-Type probes that comes with it, it rusted after the first time it saw water. I never even got around to testing if it was water tight.

Don't know anyone who has used those Rex controllers, it may be ok, but I'm not sure. Reading the page, the pid only supports a K-Type probe. So the RTD pt100 as normally used for brewing will not work. The K-Type are more a wide range probe and don't seem to be as accurate for finer temperature measurements.


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## 5150 (18/6/13)

Thanks QldKev,

I'll test it out and see what it's like and report back if it was all a waste of a lobster. :unsure:

I've been watching your and Trumans build, very nice.


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## Truman42 (18/6/13)

I'm still waiting for my ******* Auberins pid. Just sayin


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## dicko (19/6/13)

I bought a Chinese PiD from ebay and apart from the instructions it is ok. If you want a ramp/soak function then go Auberin.
If you buy a Chines one make sure it supports a PT 100 sensor ( as Kev said ) and if you buy a Chinese PT 100 then replace the nut on it with a stainless one as that is what started to rust on mine.
I checked the sensor probe and the body with a magnet and they are stainless but the nut is chrome steel and rusts after a few uses.
The Chinese really lat themselves down at times as a stainless nut cost 20cents.

Cheers


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## QldKev (19/6/13)

Truman said:


> I'm still waiting for my ******* Auberins pid. Just sayin



I think your local delivery man may be a brewer :unsure:


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## seamad (19/6/13)

Truman said:


> I'm still waiting for my ******* Auberins pid. Just sayin


I received some gear from auberins yesterday, five days from payment to delivery.


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## Parks (19/6/13)

Truman said:


> I'm still waiting for my ******* Auberins pid. Just sayin


Did you say you bought them from eBay or directly through their site? Shouldn't make a difference as I'm somewhat kinda maybe sure they are the same but...

I have had parcels lost over the years and maybe ended up at the local post office?


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## billygoat (19/6/13)

5150 said:


> Thanks QldKev, This is the one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PID-Digital-Temperature-Controller-0-to-400-K-Sensor-With-25DA-SSR-New-ER99-/121084946919?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item1c3139a9e7&_uhb=1
> 
> Is it a PT100 probe that I whould be looking for?
> 
> Cheers.


If you look at the pictures of the unit, the sticker on the side states Type K, but if you look at the other sticker showing the wiring diagram and terminals, it shows an RTD (PT100) can be connected to terminals 12, 13 and 14. If thats the one they send you, you may be ok. 
On the subject of PT100 probes I have bought a few from Procon- products from Ebay, never had any rusting or failures. Been going strong for around 5 years. I did buy a cheaper one from a different supplier, when I installed it, wort came out the end of the probe where the wires exit, it was not water tight. All the procon ones I have bought are, I install them straight into the mash, HLT, kettle and herms without thermowells. All they require is an 8 mm hole, stainless flat washers and silicon baking tray seals.


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## dicko (19/6/13)

The PID sensor that I have came from Uxcell on ebay just for everyone's info. Probe is 50 mm long and cost about $7.50.
The Procon one sounds the go..

Cheers


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## Truman42 (19/6/13)

Parks said:


> Did you say you bought them from eBay or directly through their site? Shouldn't make a difference as I'm somewhat kinda maybe sure they are the same but...
> 
> I have had parcels lost over the years and maybe ended up at the local post office?


I brought them direct from Auberins and their tracking says it left Florida USPS on the 5th June. I might go to the local Post Office and see if they have it.


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## Truman42 (19/6/13)

seamad said:


> I received some gear from auberins yesterday, five days from payment to delivery.


Did you pay for express shipping or just standard shipping? Mine was standard shipping which their site says 2-3 weeks. Its been 16 days but others here have recieved theirs already.


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## seamad (19/6/13)

Just the standard, was pretty surprised when it turned up.


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## Truman42 (19/6/13)

seamad said:


> Just the standard, was pretty surprised when it turned up.


Shit yeh. I went to Aussie post and they said it hasnt even been received by them yet and Customs could have it. 

I phoned Customs and they said Aussie post have a customs holding facility so if it was held up in Customs they would know that...WTF????

Im getting nowhere.


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## Parks (21/6/13)

Parks said:


> I just ordered one of these which has 120mm external dimensions so *should* be perfect and was $53 delivered.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300920471240
> 
> I will report once it arrives...


It turned up this week and the dimensions are perfect. It has some shelves which will make mounting nicer (IMO) as I can mount SSR etc internally instead of to the back or sides. It only has 2 rivets as the hinge (top and bottom) so I might change that to a piano style hinge to make adding some foam seals work better.


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## Truman42 (21/6/13)

Looks like a well constructed box, especially with the corner supports. Are you going to use a fan for your heat sinks or use external heat sinks? The internal heat sinks are a lot cheaper but you should use a small computer fan to keep them cool.


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## Parks (21/6/13)

Truman said:


> Looks like a well constructed box, especially with the corner supports. Are you going to use a fan for your heat sinks or use external heat sinks? The internal heat sinks are a lot cheaper but you should use a small computer fan to keep them cool.


I seriously doubt the heat power of those SSRs as I was using one hooked to my arduino sitting on a table with no heat sink and it didn't even make the table cloth warm...

I will add an internal heat sink but no fan. I'll only have one.


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## Truman42 (21/6/13)

Parks said:


> I seriously doubt the heat power of those SSRs as I was using one hooked to my arduino sitting on a table with no heat sink and it didn't even make the table cloth warm...
> 
> I will add an internal heat sink but no fan. I'll only have one.


Yeh fair enough with one it probably wont be a problem. I have 3 of them all close together so added the fan for extra safety.


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## brewologist (21/6/13)

Parks said:


> I just ordered one of these which has 120mm external dimensions so *should* be perfect and was $53 delivered.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300920471240
> 
> I will report once it arrives...


How is the medicine box going Parks? I was looking at one of those but went with a weatherproof junction box.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180936183583?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Got the weatherproof cause most times brew day get messy.


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## QldKev (21/6/13)

Truman said:


> Yeh fair enough with one it probably wont be a problem. I have 3 of them all close together so added the fan for extra safety.



If a professional builds the enclosure, they would never cut a corner and leave the cooling out.


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## Parks (24/6/13)

QldKev said:


> If a professional builds the enclosure, they would never cut a corner and leave the cooling out.


That entirely depends on the application and I would certainly argue a heat sink is more than adequate cooling for this system. This is based on only ever drawing 10A through for a 2000W element.

If you are (as you guys are doing) pulling much higher wattages than sure, it's warranted.


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## Parks (24/6/13)

brewologist said:


> How is the medicine box going Parks? I was looking at one of those but went with a weatherproof junction box.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180936183583?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> Got the weatherproof cause most times brew day get messy.


It will be perfect for what I want. It'll probably take me til XMas to get it setup based on my track record with these projects...


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