# How long for a vitality starter and check out my Bo pils



## nosco (6/1/18)

Im planning on doing a Bo pils tomorrow. I have a finished 3 lt starter of 2002 Gambrinus Lager that is settling right now. After pouring of the starter beer and keeping 1lt I am going to take a 3rd of that for later and use the rest in the beer. I will need to step it up but I am thinking of maybe trying a vitality starter because I want to chill the wort and hopefully get a little bit more Saaz character in the beer. If I step up the starter Ill have to brew it next weekend and Im going away on the 27th which will cut things too fine. Actually checking the calendar it has to be tomorrow.

So will a vitality give me enough yeast for a lager? The date on the smack pack was 31st of Oct and it swelled in a few hours so I think it should be nice and viable and healthy. I figure 1lt of wort but how long do I spin it before pitching?

While Im at it heres my recipe.
5.2kg of Gladfeild pils
250g of Best Melanoidin
33g of Czech Saaz 4.4AA @60
50g of Saaz @20
20g in the whirlpool maybe at 90c or something.

1g of Calcium Chloride
4.1ml Lactic acid for pH

Im still working out the salts.

Mash
62c for 30min
70c for 45min
Mashout
90 min boil.

My chiller is a bit piss weak so it will take a while to chill. I am going to chill my DIY stainless 30lt kegmenter too before transfer.

Cheers (if any one is still around at this time )


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## manticle (6/1/18)

I know you’re still working out the salts so I won’t write this in capitals.

No calcium carbonate. None. Never ever but especially not ever in this kind of beer ever, none, no way.

I also wouldn’t gypsum - low amounts of cal chloride to hit 40-50ppm calcium and acid or acid malt to hit pH 5.2.

FWH rather than whirlpool or at least reduce whirlpool to less than half.

Fermentation is the key, including yeast management. Big starter (looking at 4L not 1), active if you can. Or drafflaussen.


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## nosco (6/1/18)

Why no calcium carbonate? I thought a bit of calcium was good?

do you mean first wort hop? Im not convinced that it will add hop character or a smoother bitterness. But if its keeping to style then Im all for that. I have a bad habit of adding hops in 50g increments 
I could save myself some hops by ditching the whirlpool hops.


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## nosco (6/1/18)

Oops I meant calcium chloride  edited above


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## Garfield (7/1/18)

manticle said:


> I know you’re still working out the salts so I won’t write this in capitals.
> 
> No calcium carbonate. None. Never ever but especially not ever in this kind of beer ever, none, no way.
> 
> ...


This is very curious. I'm just getting into salts also. I haven't used calcium carbonate as yet but many people suggest it. What's your reason for omitting? Also, the gypsum?

Are you speaking to pils specifically?


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## nosco (7/1/18)

As you can probably tell from my above comments Im no expert. Gypsum accentuates hop bitterness and gives the a bit of a "dry" taste to the beer so I guess Manticle suggested not using it because it doesnt suit the style of the beer. Calcium Carbonate is chalk and is used in dark beers so thats why it should not be used in this kind of beer as it would throw the pH right out. I think it needs a special treatment to desolve it into the mash too.

Calcium Chloride is used in most beers (i think?). I used the pseudo Boh Pils water profile in Brun Water. .97g of Calcium Chloride brought me very close to that profile and 4.1ml of Lactic acid gave me a predicted pH of 5.29.

The brew day was a bit of a cock up but I managed to make a beer, but up some turbuckles and wire rope for a cat run and mow the lawns so not a bad day I guess.

Edit: Darker spec grains are more acidic so chalk is used to raise the pH to the optimal range.


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## manticle (7/1/18)

Whirlpool fine - just don’t treat like an apa


Garfield said:


> This is very curious. I'm just getting into salts also. I haven't used calcium carbonate as yet but many people suggest it. What's your reason for omitting? Also, the gypsum?
> 
> Are you speaking to pils specifically?




Calcium carbonate (chalk) is used to raise pH (alkalise). It’s not particularly effective at doing so due to insolubility but regardless - any beer that isn’t dark will either be ok pH or need acidification. Other calcium salts like gypsum (calcium sulfate) or calcium chloride drop pH so adding chalk to the same beer to raise pH is counter intuitive. Add chalk only ever to dark beers like stout or porter (if at all but that’s a different argument).

As for gypsum - great for making bitterness profile shine and accentuating hop profile. Calcium chloride is great for pushing full, rounded maltiness. Gypsum for apa, cal chloride for pils.


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