# Help, pale ale aroma



## givemeamash (6/1/17)

Having spent the best part of summer drinking my saison, when the keg blew I headed to the shop and have been enjoying Burleigh 28, balter xpa (unreal beer but way overpriced) and the old favourite LCPA. It got me thinking as to why I can't get that classic fruity aroma that these beers have. I use a grainfather, chill, there in late hops and dry hop but usually just get left with that grassy taste and smell once in the keg. I have dry hopped for 7 days down to 24 hours normally use c hops for this job and can't seem to crack it. I generally use hops from my fridge freezer which are bought in bulk but am starting to think that this is the problem.... any ideas???


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## Maheel (6/1/17)

Followed...

Having much the same issue with my Ales

Smells awesome fermenting and then nothing in the keg...


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## manticle (6/1/17)

I've not tried but Yob dropped some at the Winston last time he was in Hobart and they reported good things.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/87982-super-aroma-hop-shots/


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## rude (6/1/17)

Whenever my APA beers come out a bit bland I keg hop

Having said that I have a APA that I dry hoped too long at the moment grassy arse off
keg hoped but not much improvement

Ill fix this keg by tipping I recon


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## Ferg (6/1/17)

I've been trying to research this of late too as I had an amazing ipa that smelled better than the commercial beers in the fermenter st 1 degrees. As soon as I transferred it to the keg it was gone. From everything I've read oxygen is the culprit. On this current brew I am going as far as I can to limit oxygen contact so hopefully it has a big impact.


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## Ben1 (6/1/17)

My theory is chlorine, it mutes the hop flavours. Just getting into adjusting my water now and am hopeful this will help. I feel a lot of breweries also have this issue


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## timmi9191 (6/1/17)

When I was chasing this white rabbit, my first big improvement in aroma came from doing a hop stand. Chill to 80, add between 2 to 4g/l and whirl pool for 30 mins and then continue the chill..

Second improvement came from minimising O2 contact. ie Purging keg with CO2 before filling... Ensuring transfer plumbing in leak free... Basically every tiny detail to ensue absolute minimum O2 contact. I spoke with a commercial brewer who quoted 10 parts per billion O2 will impact on all that hop goodness


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## Dan Pratt (6/1/17)

How many grams per Litre are you dry hopping?


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## Maheel (6/1/17)

it was suggested to me that if co2 leaks out of "keg" it can also take with it the hop aroma

thoughts on this ? 

just cubed 2 X +-15L cubes, hopped into cube and intend to ferment under pressure in corny and then transfer fully carbed to serving kegs


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## nosco (6/1/17)

Maheel said:


> it was suggested to me that if co2 leaks out of "keg" it can also take with it the hop aroma
> 
> thoughts on this ?
> 
> just cubed 2 X +-15L cubes, hopped into cube and intend to ferment under pressure in corny and then transfer fully carbed to serving kegs


Could that be in relation to dry hopping during before the krausen goes down? I.e. The increased co2 from fermentation drives off the hop aroma?


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## Maheel (6/1/17)

nosco said:


> Could that be in relation to dry hopping during before the krausen goes down? I.e. The increased co2 from fermentation drives off the hop aroma?


sorry i was meaning a gas leak once kegged, it was suggested leaking gas could / was taking the aroma away

so this week i am solving a few gas leaky kegs....


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## stewy (6/1/17)

I found mine improved significantly with the following water treatment:
(You will obviously need a water report or test your water to know your starting profile and then use some software.. plenty if you google)

- half a campden tablet to remove chlorine/chloramine
- addition of gypsum to ensure sufficient calcium (BNE tap water is low), and more importantly to increase the sulfate:chloride ratio, which accentuates hop bitterness/flavour/aroma. You want at least 2:1 ratio in hoppy beers (can go higher than that, 2:1 is absolute minimum)
- addition of either acidulated malt/lactic acid to get mash pH in range (BNE pH is approx 7.8-7.9, without acid additions pH is too high in paler styles)
- use less bittering hops and really load up the late additions.. also with the flame out additions, leave them to stand for 20mins before chilling
- dry hop at a minimum of 4g/L

Good luck!


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## fdsaasdf (7/1/17)

I brew hop-forward beers almost exclusively. If you use unbalanced/unfiltered water my guess is oxidation. I avoid this by filling kegs through the liquid post.


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## rude (7/1/17)

Pratty1 said:


> How many grams per Litre are you dry hopping?


Mate not much 23L batch was only 1 gram per litre cascade
Only second time I've dry hoped was for 6 days then cced for can't remember 
I get this how do I explain it grassy ginger flavour
Sorry for off topic


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## Dan Pratt (7/1/17)

rude said:


> Mate not much 23L batch was only 1 gram per litre cascade
> Only second time I've dry hoped was for 6 days then cced for can't remember
> I get this how do I explain it grassy ginger flavour
> Sorry for off topic


Increase the dry hop to 2.5g/L and do it just at the end of ferment, krausen should have started to drop out. Leave for 3-4days. 

Also try more pungent hops like citra, Galaxy, Amarillo and simcoe.

Keeping oxygen levels low is important to better aroma too.


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## Dan Pratt (7/1/17)

Hey Stewy, 

The half campden tablet, how do you add that to the water? 

Crush and dilute or just throw it in with the mash.


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## Bribie G (7/1/17)

It actually doesn't take long to run through 30 odd litres of water through a Brita Jug. I did that recently when my tank water was getting a bit manky.
Just factor in other tasks around it.


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## pcmfisher (7/1/17)

I think large volumes of co2 ie sitting over your beer in a half full keg does a lot for stripping hop flavour/aroma.

Solution - Chuck some more hops in the keg.


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## fdsaasdf (7/1/17)

pcmfisher said:


> I think large volumes of co2 ie sitting over your beer in a half full keg does a lot for stripping hop flavour/aroma.


Is this tongue in cheek?


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## rude (7/1/17)

Pratty1 said:


> Increase the dry hop to 2.5g/L and do it just at the end of ferment, krausen should have started to drop out. Leave for 3-4days.
> 
> Also try more pungent hops like citra, Galaxy, Amarillo and simcoe.
> 
> Keeping oxygen levels low is important to better aroma too.


Thanks for advice was dry hoped after a week of ferment 
but was under the pump left for a week then ccd for (didnt write it down) so too long I think

When I keg hop it brings lots of flavour not sure about aroma will check next time

Any keg hopers get aroma from this method ?

I find if the keg doesnt last long you have to pull the hops out after 4 days or so & flavour disipates quickly


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## wereprawn (7/1/17)

As above . Another thing to consider is the quality of your hops. Some years, due to adverse growing conditions, the hops from certain areas aren't much chop. Also the big boys get the cream of the crop and we're left with the remains . For example last years Aussie crop didn't impress me at all , this years Aussie cascade and galaxy is exceptional IMHO. 

Edit- Forgot it's 2017. 2016 crop Au hops are exceptional .


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## givemeamash (7/1/17)

Thanks for all the info. I have tried keg hopping but again did not get much result wise, will try a few of the suggestions, thanks again


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## stewy (7/1/17)

Pratty1 said:


> Hey Stewy,
> 
> The half campden tablet, how do you add that to the water?
> 
> Crush and dilute or just throw it in with the mash.


. Crush between 2 teaspoons & toss it into the water as it's heating up to mash temps


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## stewy (7/1/17)

rude said:


> Mate not much 23L batch was only 1 gram per litre cascade
> Only second time I've dry hoped was for 6 days then cced for can't remember
> I get this how do I explain it grassy ginger flavour
> Sorry for off topic


 I brew with cascade very regularly. For a Pale Ale I go 4g/L if using Cascade. Anything less I find has very little impact. At 1g you are really just throwing hops away. Other hops like Citra for example can give results at lower dry hop quantities but not Cascade


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## Haydos13 (20/1/17)

The biggest thing for me was just quantities of late and dry hops. I bumped it up from ~2g/l to 4g+ late and dry and the difference was night and day. I've gone as high as 8g/l in some big ipa's, never feels wasted.


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## fdsaasdf (20/1/17)

Haydos13 said:


> The biggest thing for me was just quantities of late and dry hops. I bumped it up from ~2g/l to 4g+ late and dry and the difference was night and day. I've gone as high as 8g/l in some big ipa's, never feels wasted.


As much as I love late-hopped beers, if you need well over double the dry hops of hop monsters like Pliny the Elder, maybe it is worth checking out the pH of your water/mash or kegging practices if you don't already?


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## Wall (23/1/17)

Keg hopping is big difference to hopping in the fermenter I think.

Ive recently started dry hopping in the keg but keeping the keg in the ferment fridge with the next brew to condition for a week if I dry hop. Then I'll carbonate fully and chill in the keg fridge after I pull the hops.
Haven't had grassy of herby flavours this way and get much better aroma.
Seems to make a huge difference.

There's a caveat, though, I've just moved house to a better source of water and started filtering water so possibly the water makes a huge difference and the dry hop in keg over fermenter a small difference.

Many variables changing together etc etc


Edited: big fat fingers, tiny little phone.


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