# Which Plate Chiller To Get/avoid



## Blackened (11/7/12)

Hello all,
I'm upgrading my old CF chiller. I understand plate chillers clog fairly easily and am aiming an an inline filter of some sort. While at it I'll make 2, one for the chiller and one for the RIMS. So does anyone have any advice regarding which to steer clear of and which work well? I see there's a few to choose from on eBay, one specifically mentions multi-path (or words to that effect) to reduce blockages. What about the number of plates? More is better but how many is overkill for a 20L batch?Forgive the typos, can't seem to edit as expected using the iPhone without retyping the whole lot. Oh yeah, and what sort of filter would be appropriate?Cheers!


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## twizt1d (11/7/12)

more plates the better
im using the mashmaster MKIII 30 plate one and youd have to try pretty hard to block it 
i actually just ordered one of these as a pre-filter/mini hopback so i can throw pellets straight into the boil but if you use a hopsock then youll never have any problems
https://ibrew.myshopify.com/products/pump-pre-filter


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## Fat Bastard (11/7/12)

Another vote here for the Mashmaster MkIII 30 plate job.

Never managed to block it, and I never use a hop sock and my whirlpooling is a bit dubious. I used to run a hop blocker on the pickup, but I've deleted that so I can whirlpool and recirculate with a pump.


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## pk.sax (11/7/12)

Got one from buda diesel in the underwear * of america. Great stuff, cheaper than the local stock, posted.


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## danielmanners (11/7/12)

check out http://www.kegking.com.au/ and pay cash! :lol:


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## OneEye (11/7/12)

Keg King MKIII here and like mentioned above it goes really well. I do 20L batches and it gets everything into the fermenter at pitching temps in about 15-20 mins


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## eamonnfoley (11/7/12)

If you can get your hands on a Blichmann Therminator you will not be sorry. Awesome chiller.


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## JaseH (11/7/12)

I looked at the Keg King ones but they only come with hose barbs, I wanted 1/2" threaded fittings so I could fit QD's. I went for the Dudadiesal 30 plate with 1/2" threaded male fittings and couldn't be happier:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query...;i=beerchillers


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## twizt1d (11/7/12)

those look great but the freight is pretty spendy


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## Thefatdoghead (11/7/12)

If I had the chance again id'e defiantly get a plate chiller you can break down and clean properly. Otherwise the 30 plate works well but cleaning is a bitch.


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## Fat Bastard (11/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> If I had the chance again id'e defiantly get a plate chiller you can break down and clean properly. Otherwise the 30 plate works well but cleaning is a bitch.



Oh I dunno about that. Before I had pumps, I just used to hook it up to the hot tap and backflush before running the hot napisan from the kettle through it, followed by plain water and starsan followed by a dry out in the oven at 150 for an hour. Now I do the same, but plumb it into the pump and recirc for a while.

It's mostly sitting around , having a beer and waiting rather than actively scrubbing the thing.


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## OneEye (11/7/12)

I just pump PBW solution through my chiller for 30 mins and that seems to get any, if any, crud out


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## twizt1d (11/7/12)

ive never gone to any extra hassle cleaning mine other than flushing it with water straight after use then a bit of pbw

after sanitising my fermenter the starsan gets circulated through the chiller/cold side lines for the duration of the boil


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## Truman42 (12/7/12)

I bought a secondhand chiller from Keg King for $20.00 (I think its a 20 plate, the smaller one.) 
If I run my wort from the kettle through the chiller nice and slow it pulls the wort down to pitching temps. Which I do anyway so as not to pull the trub cone apart. Perfect for my 20 litre batches. 
I recirculate water through the cold side from my water tank.

You should check out Keg King, they're nice and close to you.


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## kevin_smevin (12/7/12)

tonesbrew said:


> more plates the better
> im using the mashmaster MKIII 30 plate one and youd have to try pretty hard to block it
> i actually just ordered one of these as a pre-filter/mini hopback so i can throw pellets straight into the boil but if you use a hopsock then youll never have any problems
> https://ibrew.myshopify.com/products/pump-pre-filter



I'm not sure if the plastic in these filters is food safe at boiling temps. I've enquired about it before and was told it was fine. Upon further research i found out that it was not and told the folks at ibrew. They said they use it at those temps and no problems - i dont think they understand the concept of food safe.

I've got the blichman therminator. Expensive but very good. I chill 55L to ale temps in about 10 minutes. A couple minutes more and i will get to 12 degrees for a lager. I use iced water as my cold liquor rather then tap water though.


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## Goose (12/7/12)

yum yum yum said:


> I'm not sure if the plastic in these filters is food safe at boiling temps. I've enquired about it before and was told it was fine. Upon further research i found out that it was not and told the folks at ibrew. They said they use it at those temps and no problems - i dont think they understand the concept of food safe.
> 
> I've got the blichman therminator. Expensive but very good. I chill 55L to ale temps in about 10 minutes. A couple minutes more and i will get to 12 degrees for a lager. I use iced water as my cold liquor rather then tap water though.



first time i've seen this filter, looks great in concept but would also concern about plastic. To sanitise my plate chiller, I remove my hopsock at the completion of the of hops schedule, and then keep the flame on while recircing through my plate chiller until the wort returns to the boil and then keep it like that for 5-10 minutes. That means that filter definitely must stand up to 100 deg C. Anyone know of a ss option ?


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## kevin_smevin (12/7/12)

Goose said:


> first time i've seen this filter, looks great in concept but would also concern about plastic. To sanitise my plate chiller, I remove my hopsock at the completion of the of hops schedule, and then keep the flame on while recircing through my plate chiller until the wort returns to the boil and then keep it like that for 5-10 minutes. That means that filter definitely must stand up to 100 deg C. Anyone know of a ss option ?



I use one of these things as well as a whirlpool which seems to work very well. http://www.beerbelly.com.au/images/hopscreendeluxe.gif

I sanitize the plate chiller with 90 deg water for about 15-20 minutes. I whilrpool for 20 minutes (10 minute active with pump, 10 minute rest) and then run through the chiller. After chilling, i flush the chiller in reverse with hot water - basically no chunky bits come through. I then recirc with hot pbw while i clean all my pots and then flush with hot water until all the soapy pbw is gone.

So while the chilling bit is very quick and efficient, you spend all the extra time cleaning your plate chiller - is a pain but i think its worth it.


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## Goose (12/7/12)

> I sanitize the plate chiller with 90 deg water for about 15-20 minutes.



I would argue 90 is not enough to kill spores and several minutes at 100 would do a better job ?

I know some flush with starsan prior to use, but you then have to be careful with the starsan/wort interface unless you blow out with co2 or some other food /medical grade gas.

Thanks for the beerbelly hopscreen link. In my setup i can't whirlpool, but instead I have a false bottom in my boiler with perforations the same size as the beerbelly filter, that seems to do a great job in holding back most of the hot break and the hopsock keeps most solids at bay. However still some sludge manages to find its way through as I have noticed when blowing out, I use the same cleaning procedure as you do re PBW recirc.


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## twizt1d (12/7/12)

i dont think the filter will be any problem regarding the 'food grade' side of things after all i dont plan on smoking it or eating it whole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene


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## kevin_smevin (12/7/12)

Goose said:


> I would argue 90 is not enough to kill spores and several minutes at 100 would do a better job ?
> 
> I know some flush with starsan prior to use, but you then have to be careful with the starsan/wort interface unless you blow out with co2 or some other food /medical grade gas.
> 
> Thanks for the beerbelly hopscreen link. In my setup i can't whirlpool, but instead I have a false bottom in my boiler with perforations the same size as the beerbelly filter, that seems to do a great job in holding back most of the hot break and the hopsock keeps most solids at bay. However still some sludge manages to find its way through as I have noticed when blowing out, I use the same cleaning procedure as you do re PBW recirc.



Most spores are heat resistant so will tolerate boiling water for a long time so in this context it wouldn't make a difference.


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## drsmurto (12/7/12)

Inline filter? Pull apart and clean?

I find a lot of brewers who complain about hops/trub getting in plate chillers don't understand the importance of a good whirlpool prior to running your wort out of the kettle. Or even the function of the whirlpool. 

I have been using a plate chiller for ~5 years (a 20 plate from beerbelly to begin with but the last year or so I have been using a 30 plate), the only inline 'filter' is the beerbelly hopscreen. Never clogged it up yet. Pellets/plugs/flowers - used them all.

If you whirlpool properly and you have your pick up tube placed well, nothing should get in to the plate chiller. Some people use a hop bag, i do occasionally but they are not necessary.

That is the key, making suring clear wort is the only thing going through your chiller.

As for cleaning - immediately after use i flush in both directions a number of times with hot tap water. Drain. Before use I run sanitiser through it and drain. Conveniently, the time between turning off the flame, whirlpooling and chilling, is perfect for setting up the chiller and running a sanitiser through it. Connect to kettle and chill.

A few times a year i clean the brewery - kettle, false bottom, hop screen and chiller. I use a soaking solution of 'homemade' PBW (2:1 sodium percarbonate:sodium metasilicate) @60+C. Soak everything and flush through the chiller a number of times in both directions. Rinse with hot tap water. You could run through an acid based sanitiser at this point to 'neutralise' any remaining PBW but it's not necessary. Drain.


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## Blackened (12/7/12)

Thanks heaps everyone. I ended up ordering a "chillout" from eBay. Can't paste a link, iPhone won't let me. 30 plates, corrugated and SS barbs. I wasn't fussed about threaded fittings. Might have to get a batch of extract happening while I get the rest of the setup to something resembling functional. I think my old HLT is still good to go at least.


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## Helles (12/7/12)

yum yum yum said:


> I'm not sure if the plastic in these filters is food safe at boiling temps. I've enquired about it before and was told it was fine. Upon further research i found out that it was not and told the folks at ibrew. They said they use it at those temps and no problems - i dont think they understand the concept of food safe.
> 
> I've got the blichman therminator. Expensive but very good. I chill 55L to ale temps in about 10 minutes. A couple minutes more and i will get to 12 degrees for a lager. I use iced water as my cold liquor rather then tap water though.



They look like the bilge pump filter i have 
Wouldn't use them as a pre-filter for wort though


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## Helles (12/7/12)

tonesbrew said:


> more plates the better
> im using the mashmaster MKIII 30 plate one and youd have to try pretty hard to block it
> i actually just ordered one of these as a pre-filter/mini hopback so i can throw pellets straight into the boil but if you use a hopsock then youll never have any problems
> https://ibrew.myshopify.com/products/pump-pre-filter



These ones look like the bilge pump filter 
Sorry dont know how to put the like in the post above


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## Blackened (17/7/12)

Got my plate chiller in the mail yesterday. I was a little disappointed though as I expected the flow of wort and water to cross over, but instead the water enters and leaves the same side of the chiller, as does the wort. 

This is the model I got http://www.mashmaster.com.au/p/1141466/chi...--30-plate.html

For those with plate chillers, does yours have parallel in/out or crossover?


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## JaseH (17/7/12)

Blackened said:


> Got my plate chiller in the mail yesterday. I was a little disappointed though as I expected the flow of wort and water to cross over, but instead the water enters and leaves the same side of the chiller, as does the wort.
> 
> This is the model I got http://www.mashmaster.com.au/p/1141466/chi...--30-plate.html
> 
> For those with plate chillers, does yours have parallel in/out or crossover?



Thats how they all work mate, if I understand you correctly. In one end, out the other, wort one side, water the other. The plates inside will flood completely so no need to have diagonal in-out ports. The counterflow bit is what does the trick, make sure you feed the wort into one end and water into the opposite end, so they are flowing in opposite directions.


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## hotchilli (17/7/12)

Blackened said:


> Got my plate chiller in the mail yesterday. I was a little disappointed though as I expected the flow of wort and water to cross over, but instead the water enters and leaves the same side of the chiller, as does the wort.
> 
> This is the model I got http://www.mashmaster.com.au/p/1141466/chi...--30-plate.html
> 
> For those with plate chillers, does yours have parallel in/out or crossover?



The way the inlets and outlets are labelled on the photo are correct for a plate chiller. The "cross over" you mention is between the plates, not along the plates. The plates are set up so that they separate the wort and water in layers, ie: wort/water/wort/water/etc.....


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## Blackened (17/7/12)

Frothie said:


> Thats how they all work mate, if I understand you correctly. In one end, out the other, wort one side, water the other. The plates inside will flood completely so no need to have diagonal in-out ports. The counterflow bit is what does the trick, make sure you feed the wort into one end and water into the opposite end, so they are flowing in opposite directions.



ok thanks Frothie, the design specs for plate chillers I've seen would suggest otherwise.. but it's probably only a very minor effect on efficiency if any.


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## nathan_madness (17/7/12)

Mash Master MkIII 30 Plate! Used it for the first time on Saturday took the boiling wort to 20deg in one pass with the garden hose flat out and the tap out of the boiler fully open. Less than 10min to get 26L from 99deg to 20deg I was amazed and had no problems with blockage either BIAB or use a grain/hop blocker.


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## manticle (17/7/12)

Nathan: How many litres of water approximately?

I bought a 30 plate MM a while back but haven't set it up yet but when I do I aim to reserve and re-use the water.


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## JaseH (17/7/12)

manticle said:


> Nathan: How many litres of water approximately?
> 
> I bought a 30 plate MM a while back but haven't set it up yet but when I do I aim to reserve and re-use the water.



In my experience, as a rough estimate, I'm probably doing about a 3:1 water to wort ratio at the moment to get down to around 20C. Like Nathan, I gravity drain wort through the chiller into the fermentor with the kettle tap open full. The return water from the chiller I dump back into my HLT and a 25L bucket which I then use for cleanup as its already heated. I maybe dump 30-40L onto the lawn whilst I'm chilling to prevent the bucket and my HLT from overflowing, but no reason you couldn't save that if you wanted.

I haven't tried tuning the flow to maximise the water efficiency so could probably get this down a little without much cooling loss if I wanted.


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## manticle (17/7/12)

Cheers.


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## nathan_madness (17/7/12)

manticle said:


> Nathan: How many litres of water approximately?
> 
> I bought a 30 plate MM a while back but haven't set it up yet but when I do I aim to reserve and re-use the water.



Hmmm would not have a clue. Just had the tap flat out and got the misses to water the garden for 10 minutes. I had a mate helping me and he is keen to get one and was concerned about the amount of water. He came up with the suggestion of using a bilge pump in his pool and pump that through the chiller or recycling it through an icy bucket of water.


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## JaseH (17/7/12)

I've heard of guys that use tank water and circulate the water back into their water tanks - so no loss!


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## eamonnfoley (17/7/12)

yum yum yum said:


> Most spores are heat resistant so will tolerate boiling water for a long time so in this context it wouldn't make a difference.



At 90C you will need a reasonably large contact time to even kill all normal bacteria. I haven't got the chart handy but it may need an hour plus. Your better using boiling 100C for 20 mins+ and circulate through. I use wort and circulate it through the chiller, hoses etc.

I put the cleaned chiller in the oven at max (higher than 170C) for 60 + mins. You will sterilize the chiller with dry heat. I do this every batch before the circulation of wort through it during the boil.


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## Nick JD (17/7/12)

Starsan, 3 minutes.


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## JaseH (17/7/12)

Nick JD said:


> Starsan, 3 minutes.



Yep, I generally just throw some star san into the water remaining in my HLT, then recirc it through the chiller for the last 10min or so of the boil to sanitise.

End of the day, I throw some nappy san into the water in my HLT, backflush/recirc that through the chiller for a while whilst I'm cleaning up. Then flush/recirc again with water, drain it and thats it until next brew day. This way I'm cleaning all the lines and the pump at the same time.


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## kevin_smevin (17/7/12)

foles said:


> At 90C you will need a reasonably large contact time to even kill all normal bacteria. I haven't got the chart handy but it may need an hour plus. Your better using boiling 100C for 20 mins+ and circulate through. I use wort and circulate it through the chiller, hoses etc.
> 
> I put the cleaned chiller in the oven at max (higher than 170C) for 60 + mins. You will sterilize the chiller with dry heat. I do this every batch before the circulation of wort through it during the boil.



It will pasteurize. I've been doing it this way for about 2 years now. Now contamination so it's good enough for me.

Just did a quick google search. Milk is pastuerized at 90 degrees C for 0.5 seconds.


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## nathan_madness (17/7/12)

Nick JD said:


> Starsan, 3 minutes.



I found it easy to connect my hose to the wort out and blast it backwards for about 5 min then modified a plastic bottle to take a barb fitting and filled the bottle full of PBW mix and pushed it through the chiller then drew it back. Did that a couple of times. Then filled the chiller with starsan and shook it around for 5 min then flushed with boiling water. My main concern was leaving starsan in the chiller may cause pitting.


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## drsmurto (17/7/12)

nathan_madness said:


> I found it easy to connect my hose to the wort out and blast it backwards for about 5 min then modified a plastic bottle to take a barb fitting and filled the bottle full of PBW mix and pushed it through the chiller then drew it back. Did that a couple of times. Then filled the chiller with starsan and shook it around for 5 min then flushed with boiling water. My main concern was leaving starsan in the chiller may cause pitting.



Starsan before use is what i assume Nick meant. And I agree, that is all I have ever done.

Leave it for the same contact time recommended for fermenters etc. Drain. Now it is ready to use. 

Not sure why so many people here are going to so much trouble when a no rinse sanitiser is all that is needed to sanitise a clean plate chiller.


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## technobabble66 (14/6/13)

So is a 20-plate chiller adequate to get a 20-25L batch down to 20-25°C in a single pass, or do you really need to go to the 30 plate chiller?

I'm asking for a gravity feed setup, if that makes a difference.

(assuming you've just taken the batch off the boil, though i guess you'd probably let the whirlpool take effect, so initial temp could be anywhere fro 99°C to 80°C ).


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## seamad (14/6/13)

Would depend on your cooling water. I have the 30 plate mashmaster and use tank water (tanks are buried under the house so it's cool even in summer) and it drops it down to about 3C above water temp. The price difference was $20 between the 20 and 30 plate so just got the bigger one. I understand it has more surface area than the therminator, the only downside is that it has hosetails and not threaded fittings.

edit.Forgot to add that the temp of wort is @ 95.


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## nathan_madness (14/6/13)

+1 MashMaster MKIII 30 plate.

Easiest way to clean is to connect it to the overflow pipe on your hot water system which should be 1/2 copper then open the relief valve on the HWS blasting mains pressure hot water through your chiller for 30 seconds then reverse the flow (connect the hot water to the outlet side of of the chiller) blast for another 30 seconds then drain fill with boiling hot PBW and leave it over night then flush with garden hose connected. Fill with sanitiser when you start your brew day and then drain just before use.


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