# A Beer For Schapelle



## Wortgames (27/5/05)

I know we don't need to debate the subject here, and it's already had every last trace of humanity bled out of it by the media, so my comment is based firmly on the assumption that she didn't do it.

I have spent some time in Indonesia, and having some idea how the beaurocracy functions there I would have put money on this result - but on actually hearing the verdict I really feel gutted for the poor girl. There but for the grace of God and all that.

So, it being Friday afternoon, and me being my own boss, I'm having the beer that she can't have and sparing her a thought. A lot of folks get dealt a rough hand in life, and this one's no picnic.


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## Samwise Gamgee (27/5/05)

Here here!


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## warrenlw63 (27/5/05)

Wortgames said:


> I know we don't need to debate the subject here, and it's already had every last trace of humanity bled out of it by the media,
> [post="61030"][/post]​




Seems to be the way of the media and "Shock Jock" attention seekers of our country WG. Whether she's guilty or not, she would have received a mere slap on the wrists in Australia.

That bastard-headed Derryn Hinch earns my contempt through is muck-raking on poor old recently-departed Graham Kennedy.

That was plain disgusting IMO. He was trying to tarnish the memory and dignity of a man who brought nothing but joy and a lot of laughs to the lives to generations of Australians. Can't wait for re-runs of Don's Party and the Odd Angry Shot.

I can just see him up in heaven now with the perfect riposte for Derryn.  

Next pint's for you Gra-Gra! :super: 

Warren -


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## mikem108 (27/5/05)

Yeah what is it with that Hinch guy. "Chappelle is only getting the coverage because she's attractive" WHat an a-hole. 
Most believe she's getting the coverage because she's innocent.


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## offroad4X4 (27/5/05)

It just goes to show the total ineptitude of our beloved government and illustrious leaders, that it could well have been Johny Howard sitting in Schapples jail cell right now, all for the sake of going on holiday to a place we help rebuild after the horror of the Bali bombings. 
It is a sobering thought, that if you get in the shit in Indonesia kiss you arse goodbye.


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## Trent (27/5/05)

She sure got the rough end of the pineapple, poor old Chapelle. I wont go into it either, as these type of forums arent the place for political-esque rants or debates, but I will be following suit with you wortgames, I'll charge my glass to her tonight, probably along with most of Oz. 
Here's to innocent people not being put in jail! 
Trent


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## Stratis (27/5/05)

Don't get me wrong - I still feel very sorry for her...BUT

You have to admit though if it were me (a 23 year old male of mediterranean ancestory) in her situation I can guarantee you that I wouldn't generate the same amount of sympathy as a pretty young anglo woman.

Just a thought.


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## dickTed (27/5/05)

Might have one for Barlow, Chambers and McAuliffe as well.


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## Stickler (27/5/05)

Oops, my bad....thought we were commiserating over losing Greg to the Indians


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## Weizguy (27/5/05)

I'll have a beer for her too. Some people at my work thought that she got what was coming; and are entitled to their opinion, however wrong, twisted and evil it may be.

...and one 4 Gra-Gra. Shame that Graham will never meet Derryn in heaven to sort it out coz Derryn is prob going 2 the other place.

To reprise Mr Kennedy's infamous crow-call: Faaaaaaarrrrrrrrk!

Seth out

P.S. I still remember the Barlow and Chambers jokes from when I was younger...


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## ozbrewer (27/5/05)

ITs a very sorry planet we live on, if an Indonesian were caught with that much dope here.....he/she would have got off as the evidance is not strong enough, however Indo law works the opposite to most civalised countries, Ill be having a beer or 10 for her, and a we dram for Gra Gra. Ill also be checking every packet it but and will never again purchase anything from Indo, East Timor was bad enough, now they realy have me pissed off.


Uncle Johhny Needs to get some ballas about him.


</end rant>

Raise a glass foe everyone that has had mis justice


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## ozbrewer (27/5/05)

Weizguy said:


> To reprise Mr Kennedy's infamous crow-call: Faaaaaaarrrrrrrrk!
> 
> Seth out
> 
> ...




a big tall glass of Faaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrkkkkk for Gra Gra


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## nonicman (27/5/05)

Wortgames said:


> There but for the grace of God and all that.
> [post="61030"][/post]​



A toast to Chappelle and the any innocent Indonesians who have faced the same Judge and system. Just another victim in the "War on Drugs".

Edit: isn't her name Shappelle  Chief Judge Linton Sirait has never let anyone walk free from his courts. Fingers crossed for the appeals.

Whoops: Schapelle thats 3 goes at the poor girl's name.


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## cubbie (27/5/05)

ozbrewer said:


> ITs a very sorry planet we live on, if an Indonesian were caught with that much dope here.....he/she would have got off as the evidance is not strong enough, however Indo law works the opposite to most civalised countries, Ill be having a beer or 10 for her, and a we dram for Gra Gra. Ill also be checking every packet it but and will never again purchase anything from Indo, East Timor was bad enough, now they realy have me pissed off.
> 
> 
> Uncle Johhny Needs to get some ballas about him.
> ...



Not taking sides but every country has the right to make it's own laws. What we do and think in Australia has no bearings on how the indonesians run their country.

We cried for the death penalty even though we don't have it here for the bombings and cried against the death penalty because we don't have it here for Corby. I think there may have been a more favourable result had this trial been made less of a circus by Australians and the media.


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## ozbrewer (27/5/05)

spend only a few hours in East Timor and youll know where im comming from


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## voota (27/5/05)

ozbrewer said:


> ITs a very sorry planet we live on, if an Indonesian were caught with that much dope here.....he/she would have got off as the evidance is not strong enough, however Indo law works the opposite to most civalised countries, Ill be having a beer or 10 for her, and a we dram for Gra Gra. Ill also be checking every packet it but and will never again purchase anything from Indo, East Timor was bad enough, now they realy have me pissed off.
> 
> 
> Uncle Johhny Needs to get some ballas about him.
> ...



I dont want to start a debate, but if you are in another country you have to live by thier laws and accept thier punishments if you are caught breaking the law. I'm in no way saying that I think Chapelle is guity, I'm just saying that just because australia has relitivly light laws for drug possession(thank god!), it doesn't mean that an Australain in another country should be subject to our laws. I will have a beer for her too, I hope that her (and the hundred or so other Australians in jail overseas) can be sent back here to serve their sentences.
, Voota


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## Beerpig (27/5/05)

About 20 years in secondary fermentation should do it

Cheers


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## keng11 (27/5/05)

ozbrewer said:


> spend only a few hours in East Timor and youll know where im comming from
> [post="61076"][/post]​



Yeh my nephew was in East Timor & he was in the unlucky job of revealing the mass graves created by the Indonesian backed gorillas, not good. And then there's that Abu Bakar Basher who blew up 102 people in Bali & only got two years, this would have to be the most corrupt country ever.


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## Wortgames (27/5/05)

As far as the Indonesian justice system goes (and in fact many of the south-east asian nations), you need to remember that the officials do what they think their superiors want them to do. There is no autonomy, there is instead a tangle of beaurocracy, fear and corruption. The judge has more to fear by going against his government and acquitting than he does by convicting (over 500 trials, 0 acquittals, do the math!)

The very fact that she was arrested made her guilty - the truth is it wouldn't have mattered who said or did what, she was caught in a very big machine that wasn't about to stop. And it could have been any single one of us, pure and simple.


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## homebrewworld.com (27/5/05)

I can't agree more Wortgames.......
Oh, did you see on tonights news we let the old fellow who bashed his wife of 30yrs to death go free !!
Think about it.......


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## Stickler (27/5/05)

Does someone here know something I don't?. I haven't heard a story from either side that convinces me either way. 
If she's not guilty then she's a very good actor. 
If she's guilty then it's quite believable there's some locals over there prepared to pay for some good hydro or whatever it was.
Either way, I'll be locking my bags when I travel from now on. 

Girl Gone Bad (sorry Jayse, couldn't resist)
Nick


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## homebrewworld.com (27/5/05)

Yeah Stickler, watch any of the current affair type shows and you will find out quick smart.eg Sixty mins a few weeks ago confirmed my thoughts, with facts...unlike the court today.
I as a baggage handler pity the poor las.

Oh, remember how we all condemed Lindy Chamberlam.................


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## Hopeye (27/5/05)

If you're not happy with the verdict like I'm not, then send an email to'em telling them where to go and where you won't be spending your hard earned dollars. One or two of us won't matter to them, but, five million of us on the other hand lets them know the cost of their verdict. If enough of us send emails to the pricks, it still won't make a difference, just helps to vent the spleen and hope that their website crashes..... Which is a point.... Any hackers out there ??? Encourage your friends to encourage their friends and so on. What's it cost to send an email ??? What's she paying ???

[email protected] - The government of Bali
[email protected] - The Bali Tourism Authority (so that they can calculate the lost tourism dollars)
[email protected] - Statistics Indonesia (so that they can count the number of protests)
[email protected] - Webmaster of the Indonesian Government website (as I can't find the presidents address)

You can also send an email to these dickheads who couldn't organise a piss-up in a brury (tell me they couldn't find out which bag handlers where on duty and had healthy bank accounts....)

[email protected] - The Australian Federal Police National Operations Monitoring Centre


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## Duff (27/5/05)

Wortgames said:


> As far as the Indonesian justice system goes (and in fact many of the south-east asian nations), you need to remember that the officials do what they think their superiors want them to do. There is no autonomy, there is instead a tangle of beaurocracy, fear and corruption. The judge has more to fear by going against his government and acquitting than he does by convicting (over 500 trials, 0 acquittals, do the math!)
> 
> The very fact that she was arrested made her guilty - the truth is it wouldn't have mattered who said or did what, she was caught in a very big machine that wasn't about to stop. And it could have been any single one of us, pure and simple.
> [post="61084"][/post]​



Well noted Wortgames. I spent a couple years working at an US owned gold mine site in West Papua (old Irian Jaya) and this is exactly how it is in Indonesia. While there may be expats working along side the locals, training them with improved skills for their future, the bottom line is that the Indonesians like to show the overseas boys that 'they are in control'. I had containers of supplies come in from Cairns that took 6 days to travel, but took 3 months to clear customs because they were calling the shots. By time of clearance, my local purchasing manager had to travel to the dock side with the paper bag to clear the goods. Everything ordered had 1 extra, as the 'inspections' had to remove one of everything. Laugh if you want, but that is the way thing still operate after the days of Suharto, Gus Dur and Megawati and I'm afraid it will never change regardless of all the promises made.

I could quote many examples of what we would note as corruption, toll ways around Jakarta for example. But for Schapelle, Wortgames summed it up exactly. 'The very fact she was arrested made her guilty'. This is the way the 'system' works in Indonesia. On the flip side, they can be very helpful as I and a good friend of mine have experienced which I'll leave at that.

It is good to hear that the Federal Government has provided 2 QC's to the case plus funds. This will no doubt help in the long term. As for myself and my wife (past residents) we are troubled with the verdict. However, we must respect it and not condemn the Bali locals to our scourn and discontempt. We believe Schapelle is innoccent and eventually are sure this will be shown.

Brett.


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## Beerpig (27/5/05)

Would anyone care if it was a 29yr old Australian male of Asian descent

I think not

Media beat up


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## ozbrewer (27/5/05)

Hopeye said:


> If you're not happy with the verdict like I'm not, then send an email to'em telling them where to go and where you won't be spending your hard earned dollars. One or two of us won't matter to them, but, five million of us on the other hand lets them know the cost of their verdict. If enough of us send emails to the pricks, it still won't make a difference, just helps to vent the spleen and hope that their website crashes..... Which is a point.... Any hackers out there ??? Encourage your friends to encourage their friends and so on. What's it cost to send an email ??? What's she paying ???
> 
> [email protected] - The government of Bali
> [email protected] - The Bali Tourism Authority (so that they can calculate the lost tourism dollars)
> ...




Good Post Hopeye, Thank you Verry much


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## spog (27/5/05)

my two bobs worth, what a sham. with the recent camels head incident at sydney airport it just shows how unbelievably slack and useless airport security in this country is. shapelle now possibly has 20 years to sit and think about this, maybe due to some greedy little c#%t who does not give a f#$K so long as he/she gets what they want regardless of the innocent. bring her home! :angry:


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## deadly (27/5/05)

noooo not here too
guilty or not you have to accept it


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## deadly (27/5/05)

move on


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## sintax69 (27/5/05)

Did we not supply them with a new hospital after the bombings, close that down and get 4 QCs over there 
I feel that bali was pressured into jailng that Abu Bakar Basher and this is a way that they can get back at us no mercy for any ozzies was the message from the top we should all vote with our mouse buttons


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## pbrosnan (28/5/05)

Sorry to intrude on the great Aussie justice party but, she was convicted on the facts. Caught red-handed with a shirt load of pot. What is the court supposed to do? Say: well it appears, and there has been no evidence presented to the contrary, that you attempted to enter Indonesia with a large amount of illegal drugs, despite that we'll let you go. Sounds like that would be the decision of a kangaroo court.
Oh and spare a thought for Davis Hicks who has been locked up without charge and without a prospect of the prosecutor raising a lawful charge for the best part of three years. And this has happened within the legal system of our great and powerful friend.
Keep it real!


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## Beerpig (28/5/05)

Well said pbrosnan


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## siiren (28/5/05)

The moral of this story,

Lock your bags.


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## voota (28/5/05)

pbrosnan said:


> Sorry to intrude on the great Aussie justice party but, she was convicted on the facts. Caught red-handed with a shirt load of pot. What is the court supposed to do? Say: well it appears, and there has been no evidence presented to the contrary, that you attempted to enter Indonesia with a large amount of illegal drugs, despite that we'll let you go. Sounds like that would be the decision of a kangaroo court.
> Oh and spare a thought for Davis Hicks who has been locked up without charge and without a prospect of the prosecutor raising a lawful charge for the best part of three years. And this has happened within the legal system of our great and powerful friend.
> Keep it real!
> [post="61137"][/post]​



Absolutly spot on pbrosnan


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## Batz (28/5/05)

ozbrewer said:


> ITs a very sorry planet we live on, if an Indonesian were caught with that much dope here.....he/she would have got off as the evidance is not strong enough, however Indo law works the opposite to most civalised countries, Ill be having a beer or 10 for her, and a we dram for Gra Gra. Ill also be checking every packet it but and will never again purchase anything from Indo, East Timor was bad enough, now they realy have me pissed off.
> 
> 
> Uncle Johhny Needs to get some ballas about him.
> ...




On ya ozbrewer !

I have been to Bali several times , never again , I wish all Aussies would stop going there now.
Show a bit of country pride , old Jonny sure as hell didn't

My view anyway

Batz


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## Trent (28/5/05)

Gday (I know I said before this isnt the place for debate, but it appears it has already started anyway, and I must put in my 2 cents to some of the comments I have read.) 
<Rant on>
I have to say that I think the girl is innocent (I mean, who would take 50 grand worth of pot into a country it is worth about 5 grand). Pbrosnan, your post was well put, David Hicks has been screwed royally aswell, and if we are gonna be sending emails to Indo, we may aswell send em to Bonsai (lil johnny, so named because he is a little bush). However, from all reports I have heard (because I dont read the papers or watch the news too much any more) they didnt fingerprint the bag, to see if she had put it in there, and more importantly, even though the wieght of her baggage when she checked in was less than the wieght of the baggage, it was deemed irrelevant by the judges (apparently). She didnt prove her innocence by not being able to prove who is guilty. This would be akin to someone being picked up by the police here for having a $50 note in their possesion, when an old lady was mugged the night before for $50. They can protest their innocence, but have the police say "well, if it wasnt you, then prove who it was" and then not be allowed to have any defence presented for them. I understand it is their justice system, and they can run it how they want. But innocent people should not be put into jail. With this, however, I am not saying that Indonesia is any worse or better than the US, or even our good selves. Read up on the violation of West Papua if ya wanna know what I mean there. And Deadly, by reading your comments, it would appear that you have never spent any time in a thirld world country. Maybe you should try it sometime, or at least wonder how you would feel if it were your sister. No offence meant to you personally, mate, it is your opinion, and if that is how you would feel is it were a loved one of yours in that predicament, then you are well entitled to it. Were Schappelle allowed a fair trial, rather than having any evidence in her defence dismissed as "irrelevant", as was quoted on the news last night, THEN you would have to accept it. Gross miscarriages of justice such as this happen every day of the week, all over the world, and we never hear about them. When we get a chance to hear about them, I reckon it is a good time to make a big song and dance about it, lest one day, we be in her shoes.
And in response to the people wondering if an Asian or Mediterranean male would have received the same media coverage, I am sad to say that they probably wouldnt have. Mind you, even a white male wouldnt have received the coverage Schappelle has either. People which much easier believe a male would smuggle, than a female. Stereotyping can be an ugly thing, but to be honest, I am sure that most have met drug dealers in their lives, and how many of them were women? I've never met one.
As siiren said, "lock ya bags". Mad if ya dont. And thanks for the email addresses Hopeye.
<end rant> 
Sorry if it may sound a little over the top, I have tried to tone it done a bit!
Trent


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## ozbrewer (28/5/05)

Thanks Trent, I woke up as mad as hell about the whole storey, even madder when i listednd to talk back radio, listening to the nievity of australians, "she was found guilty, therefore she is guilty" the evidance that proved her innocence was dismissed as irrelivant. 

No legal system is perfect, the US system is supposed to be the best, but look at Ruben Carter, look what the Seppos are doing to the prisoners in Quba, there are aussies there too held with out charge, it sux, its not lawfull, and its time the little men/women, stood up to the little man in canberra. I had a small amount of respect for little johnny untill his comment yesterday. 

Now the prisoners at G/Bay are are in slighly different situation the Ms Corby, but they have been imprissoned with out a lawfull charge, and infact Hicks has only done what hundreds of Aussies have done before him, I personaly know of people that have left the defence force, and being unable to cope with a normal lifestyle, become mercinaries. The US and Australia, and Britten, are employing them now in Afganistan, and Iraq as "Security" companies, but if someone decides to support the other side, its now a crime, just dont make sence at all to me. Now im not a fan of terrorists, dont get me wrong, i spen most of my adult life protecting Australia and its neibours agains it, but right is right, and wrong is wrong.

Is it time that a higher power steps in, the UN couldnet do much in GBAy, so im sure they cant help......Maybe a United Brewers Court, we can fix all the worlds problems over a few home brews, maybe use the accused to clean out the bottles, who knows


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## ozbrewer (28/5/05)

Damm Derrin Hinch is having a hard time of it all, first his comments on Corby, now hes burnt Uncle Gra Gra http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15428337-1243,00.html


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## voota (28/5/05)

What was the evidence that suggests she is innocent other than her own word?


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## homebrewworld.com (28/5/05)

Evidence and arrests of drug traffickers via baggage tampering in Australian Airports on Oct 8th 04.........the day Corby was caught.

Complete lack of security in Airports and Transfered baggage.
This with Indos complete balls up of procedure in Customs eg the handling of the drugs, fingerprints, c.c.tv (lack of )......etc
In Australian Courts this case would have been thrown out long ago.

I was approached by customs when travelling through Indo and asked if i wanted 'a cheap cops badge ' i declined.............at 18yrs old it frightened the crap out of me.
Asia/indo is rife with corruption ( not to forget Oz ) so add a little bit of that ellement to the case..


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## ozbrewer (28/5/05)

voota said:


> What was the evidence that suggests she is innocent other than her own word?
> [post="61165"][/post]​




The main evidance that would have seen her set free, was her bag its self, when she went through the check in, it was weighed, and tagged with its weight, the proof is there that when she handed her bagg to the handeler it only contained her body board. the Indo police refused to weight the bag and compare it against the ticket on the bag, In there eyes, it was in her bag, she is guilty, as also said, they didnt finget print the bag, granted that would not prove that it hadent been handled by her, but would show that otheres had touched it, in fact if they realy beleved in her guilt they would have finger printed the bag to show that she had touched it.. CCTV is supposed to show the accused clearly opening the bag, this was not so. The custom official started to open the bag, then passed it to corby to open, this is a breach of security procedure, even not enough to effect the case, but it shows the lack of procedure. 

THe eveidance used to convice was testimony of police and customs officials, they saisd that she was nervoice when opening the bag, and even more so when the rugs were found....well hello wouldent you shit if you opend your bag and it was full of dope. I shit my self when i walk through the mettal detectors at the airport, customs just scares the buggery out of me. If you had followed the case you would have seen all the defence evidance that proved her innocence, but, the judges had not taken this into consederation at all. Then look at the moral side of it, WHO TAKES DRUGS INTO BALI...an inteligant girl with a good family , and very large support network of friends, no financial problems...hardly the profile of a drug runner, if you have a look at the docco on the bankok hilton, all the westerners held in prison for drug running were basically down on there luck looking to make some money, they are recrutied buy scum bags the can identify people that are easily perswaded...i doubt this is the case in Corbys arrest, but thats just my oppinion, go back to the facts, the Prossercuters evidance was shallow, but allowed, the defence was strong, but dissalowed....Are there any lawers on this list, im sure they will agree that not only would Corby be aquitted here, she would also be found NOT guilty....yes there is a differance.

As far as locking your bags go, a friend of ours visited from NZ a month ago, she locked her bags and handed them in, when she arrived she saw her bag on the converer belt....locks missing, she refused to pick up her bag, and called the customes officer to come and look, lucky for her there was nothing extra in there.

Also guys remember the bloke at sydny airport that was running around the runway with the camel suit on. And as a final note, Kelty has admidded they did little to help her out immediatly because of other investigations into baggage tamering at australian airports....


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## voota (28/5/05)

Thanks for elaborating on that, although i'd debate that she came from a good family, and had a good history.


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## offroad4X4 (28/5/05)

This thread has served its purpose, lets get on with brewing beer now.


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## ozbrewer (28/5/05)

good point lets brew



im brewing a Corby Ale today



ok sorry i just had to have the last word


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## nonicman (28/5/05)

I'm proud we live in a country were you are presumed innocent and have to be proven guilty. Though I have noted that this idea is being slowly eroded. I especially proud of the people who make this country possible, the soldiers who serve our nation and who have to know that Australia and being an Australian means something special which it does. I'm proud we are free to brew beer in our own homes how we want.
If an Australian has done something wrong (David Hicks, Bali 9 etc...) we can sort them out ourselves in our own way. We are an adult country now. If an Australian is subject to a gross injustice a proud Australia would jump to their defence. I note in conservative Maroochydore here in QLD people are putting up signs in support of Corby in their front yards and businesses. I've not seen that before. Makes you proud :beer: 

Enough said sorry for the rant and I respect all opinions even if I don't agree, this is Australia 

edit: wont to want and where to here.


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## offroad4X4 (28/5/05)

Quote from Nonicman: 



> especially proud of the people who make this country possible, the soldiers who serve our nation and who have to know that Australia and being an Australian means something special which it does.



Thanks its nice to be recognised. I have served in Somalia '93, East Timor '00, and most recently Soloman Island '04. 
Being Australian means having the integrity to stand up when something wrong is ocurring. Integrity is a code we have, one that is sadly lost in todays society.

So live your lives with conviction and ask yourselves " Would what your doing make a good 60 minutes story that could damage our country's (Army) reputation?" If so you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Thanks Champ.


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## pbrosnan (28/5/05)

I presume then as a "proud" Australian you have leapt to the defence of D. Hicks. Good on you nonicman, I hope you can bring the rest of Maroochydore with you. But then perhaps not as you appear to have already convicted him (along with the complete "Bali 9") ... oh well at least you're not on the bench ...


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## nonicman (28/5/05)

pbrosnan,
David Hicks has not broken any Australian laws, and would be able to walk free from any Australian court, that it is the law. He may even be elgible for damages and pain and suffering. The US has been hinting that they have offered to give David to Australia but the Government has refused. 
The Bali 9 would not be walking free from a court necessarily as it appears that they have commited a crime, but nor would they be facing the death penality. Was trying to limit the extent of my rant, I could also include Tllaal Adrey an Australian facing the death penality in Kuwait. I was being overly optimistic, after going out and about the two signs I saw were the only ones all day. 

Time for a homebrew.

Edit: Just in case, please note that when David joined the Taliban they were on the same side as US interests at the time, the Taliban were doing something about the vast poppy fields and a united Afghanistan provided an ideal pathway for an oil pipe line. The rest is history.


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## Wortgames (29/5/05)

How does locking your bags help?!

Let's just assume for a sec that you get to Bali, and your bag has been tampered with. What will you do? The fact is, if there's contraband inside it you are [email protected] If you report it to the authorities, you will probably be locked up for 20 years. If you say nothing and claim your bag, you will probably be locked up for 20 years. If you leave it on the carousel, well that's 20 years too (it has your name on it remember). You get to spend the next 20 years eating nasi goreng in a cage, simply for becoming associated with the drugs. Locks nothing!

The simple fact is that there is NOTHING you can do to protect yourself from those circumstances. Going to Bali is at all is like playing Russian roulette. The odds may be better, but the downside is arguably a lot worse.

The only action you can take to protect yourself from Scappelle's fate is to take only carry-on, or not to go at all.


_First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the blacks, and I did not speak out - because I was not black.
Then they came for the gays, and I did not speak out - because I was not gay.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me._


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## ozbrewer (29/5/05)

Wortgames said:


> The only action you can take to protect yourself from Scappelle's fate is to take only carry-on, or not to go at all.




Ill never go back there


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## normell (29/5/05)

Guilty is GUILTY


Nothing more to say, so get over it


Normell


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## ozbrewer (29/5/05)

normell said:


> Guilty is GUILTY
> 
> 
> Nothing more to say, so get over it
> ...




Im sure the thousands of people wrongly conviceted would love to argue with you, Only last week a man that had spent 20 years in jail was freed an innocent man, there are so many people inside that actually are not guilty, Again look at Rubien Carter 30 years inside because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time... Actually no he wasnt , he was a black man in a white area,


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## normell (29/5/05)

But yeah, how about the guilty that are free, thanks to corrupt lawyers
Nuf said 

Normell


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## ozbrewer (29/5/05)

OK so because there are corrupt lawyers its ok to convict innocent people.......are you for real


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## normell (29/5/05)

Yes sorry I am for real.
If you are so sure that she is innocent, change places with her.
I for one rely on the judgment of other countries Judaical systems, no matter how bad they may seem.
If you don't want to do the time, don't' do the crime.

Normell


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## voota (29/5/05)

Seriously I think this is getting a bit tired and away from the purpose of the topic, some of us think she is guilty, others think she's innocent. Get over it


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## TidalPete (29/5/05)

[/quote]
I dont want to start a debate, but if you are in another country you have to live by thier laws and accept thier punishments if you are caught breaking the law.
[/quote]

All the info that we are fed by the media indicates that the Indonesian judges did not give Schapelle Corby a fair go by (amongst other things), ruling all defence witness testimonies inadmissable. But, regardless of the woman's guilt or innocence, we've got to realise that if anyone is detained under another country's criminal code, then those laws (however flawed they may seem to us) must be respected --- if that's the word? 
The Indonesians do not want drugs in their country anymore than we want them here. 
*Are our laws too lenient? You bet they are.*
Be careful where you plan to go & what you do.


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## Trent (29/5/05)

Wow
It is amazing the response this one is getting. Just a quick one on the David Hicks note, I recall watching dateline one night, and the host (last years host) was asking Phillip Ruddock about either hicks, or Mamdouh Habib. Anybody else that saw this interview may feel free to correct me if I am misquoting him, but I believe his words were (in response to a question about why not return him home to face trial in Australia) "He has done nothing wrong under Australian law, or international law, and therfore we cannot convict him of anything. If a US military tribunal feels it can convict him, then that is where he belongs" Good to see those in power here will actively sit on their hands while an innocent (under law, anyway) Aussie rots away. Pity this court case wasnt around the same time as an election, Scapelle would undoubtedly be sipping on a HB on the Goldy by now if it were. IMO anyway.
Normell, good to see that there are still those who believe in "guilty, and not allowed to prove innocence", rather than the typical "innocent until proven guilty" crowd. Keep up the good work, mate. I mean no personal insult here, I believe that Deadly said pretty much the same thing. She MAY in fact be guilty, but if she is, wouldnt a fair trial have ended up with the same verdict? A fair trial would have guarenteed no public outcry at the "guilty" verdict. If, on the off chance one of the "guilty is guilty" thinkers end up in the same predicament, I look forward to hearing them on the news telling australia to "get over it", and will see them in 20 years. 
All the best to everyone, and sorry to add a second rant. I'm even worse at home!
Trent


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## Jez (29/5/05)

all I can say is well done to her apparent Angel of Mercy in this whole thing, that mobile phone guy from the gold coast apparently financing her defence team (you know who he is).

one of the current affairs shows last week said he had incorporated "Shapelle Corby Pty Ltd".

what a good samaritan  

as for her conviction blame her legal team. why did they not attempt to refute the prosecutions charges with ADMISSABLE evidence instead of hearsay from an alleged rapist who heard some bloke in jail say he had a mate who spoke to a guy who put drugs in her bag.

and with videotapes of Australian TV show reports about dodgy baggage handlers - PLEASE!! under the rules of evidence this stuff would not be accepted as evidence in an Australian Court so why would it be admissable over there.

she's in a horrible hellhole and I feel sorry for her in that she was caught/found with pot in her bag in a country where its classified in the same category as heroin. dunno whether she did it or not but thems the facts.

maybe we should be trying to get a refund on our Tsunami donations like I heard today that a few people were trying to do......now THAT is a disgrace.

Jez


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## dickTed (29/5/05)

With remission, I would expect her to be released within 8 years.

That's going by Thai & Singapore examples though.

She hasn't done too bad in my book. She could get more at her appeal. I reckon she should let sleeping dogs lie, and hope for a prisoner exchange arrangement.

Check this out


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## AndrewQLD (30/5/05)

I am about to go on jury duty today and you Guys are making me VERY nervous. I HOPE our system works!

Andrew


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## Murray (30/5/05)




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## pbrosnan (30/5/05)

Top comment Murray. Between Hicks and mandatory detention there's not a lot of room left for righteous indignation (not that that's stopping anyone).


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## Trough Lolly (30/5/05)

*Tidak Bersalah!*


(not guilty!) :angry: 

TL


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## Snow (30/5/05)

I think a dingo planted the drugs.

- Snow


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## Kai (30/5/05)

pbrosnan said:


> Top comment Murray. Between Hicks and mandatory detention there's not a lot of room left for righteous indignation (not that that's stopping anyone).
> [post="61361"][/post]​




That's only if you're looking at it from an 'us vs them' viewpoint.


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## Tallgum (30/5/05)

Snow said:


> I think a dingo planted the drugs.
> 
> - Snow
> [post="61404"][/post]​


Didnt know her brothers nickname is Dingo .


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## nonicman (31/5/05)

h34r:


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