# White Labs Use-by Date



## mb83 (29/9/08)

Hi Folks,

Was just wondering...What is the oldest white labs vial you've used successfully?
I bought a White Labs German Lager yeast just before spring hit and the temperature went up (I don't have a brew fridge).
I'm hoping the yeast will be ok in the fridge till next autumn/winter.

What are your experiences?

Michael


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## Stuster (29/9/08)

You should be fine. I've got a batch fermenting at the moment with the East Coast ale yeast. The vial was dated January this year. It fired up fine in a half litre starter and then I stepped it up to 1.5L and pitched it into 15L of ordinary gravity wort. Just make sure you give it a few extra days to get started and it should be no problem at all. I know another Inner West brewer was given a 5 year old yeast by a HBS and with some loving care it came back to life and brewed many batches of good beer. :icon_cheers:


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## mb83 (30/9/08)

Good to hear.

Cheers,

Michael


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## NeilArge (5/10/08)

I picked up a couple of half price Wyeast smackpacks earlier this year via this very honourable webpage  . The packs say that they were manufactured late 2007. Anyway, I smacked the Californian lager (2112) yesterday early, hoping that it would be puffed and ready to burst once I got the full 23l brew down to under 20C. No luck. But the directions on the pack say that you can just pitch it anyway. So, that's what I did. Now, over 24 hours later there is still no activity in the fermenter. Is it time to worry yet  ?

Cheers
TunOfGrunt


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## Screwtop (5/10/08)

TunofGrunt said:


> I picked up a couple of half price Wyeast smackpacks earlier this year via this very honourable webpage  . The packs say that they were manufactured late 2007. Anyway, I smacked the Californian lager (2112) yesterday early, hoping that it would be puffed and ready to burst once I got the full 23l brew down to under 20C. No luck. But the directions on the pack say that you can just pitch it anyway. So, that's what I did. Now, over 24 hours later there is still no activity in the fermenter. Is it time to worry yet  ?
> 
> Cheers
> TunOfGrunt




Hmmm, maybe yes, maybe no. In any case lager under 20C and one pack, well lets say the brew may have yeast issues. Next time do a search after buying out of date yeast, it just may reveal some important points for proofing or building up the yeast to get it healthy and ready for work. Also you may find a reference to Jamil's MrMalty.com pitching rate calculator. Sorry but boy scouts motto and all that stuff :lol: 

Ya know, this forum has been going for years and has a siht load of info, true.

Screwy


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## Stuster (5/10/08)

Screwtop said:


> Ya know, this forum has been going for years and has a siht load of info, true.



Exactly.

I would be a bit worried, but let it go for now and hope you see some activity by tomorrow.


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## NeilArge (5/10/08)

Screwtop said:


> Hmmm, maybe yes, maybe no. In any case lager under 20C and one pack, well lets say the brew may have yeast issues. Next time do a search after buying out of date yeast, it just may reveal some important points for proofing or building up the yeast to get it healthy and ready for work. Also you may find a reference to Jamil's MrMalty.com pitching rate calculator. Sorry but boy scouts motto and all that stuff :lol:
> 
> Ya know, this forum has been going for years and has a siht load of info, true.
> 
> Screwy



Thanks Screwy. These are excellent points. I do normally double pitch lager yeasts and I did mean to culture this smackpack up because of the date, but things just got a bit ahead of me. Actually, to be frank (instead of ToG) I'd completely overlooked that a cali common was a lager and needed double dose yeast. WTF. IMust have relaxed because of the more relaxed temp. requirements... derr.


Ya know, this forum has been going for years and has a siht load of info, true.

Mate, don't I know it. This is my, ahem, bible for brewing. But what would you ol' hands have to do all night if it wasn't for eegits like me asking for someone to reinvent the wheel for them....  . 100 lines now: I promise that I will never use a liquid yeast again without making a starter for it. I promise....


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## Weizguy (5/10/08)

TunofGrunt said:


> <chopped>But what would you ol' hands have to do all night if it wasn't for eegits like me asking for someone to reinvent the wheel for them.... tongue.gif
> </chopped>


I reckon that some folks would have to resort to self-flagellation or just post a new thread on "Why AHB is so...", or just go surf some smut, when the swell is low on AHB.

Or we go to Mrmalty, and see how much of that hybrid yeast you would need...
With a gravity of 1.048, late 2007 yeast and with "Intermittent shaking" you would need a 2.24 litre starter or 27.3 of those yeast packs. Not lookin' good, Holmes! As long as you keep the thing coolish (as this yeast works best at 18C) and have good sanitary processes, leave it for a while and it may pick up to a pale version of a ferment (pun not intended, but I'll take what kudos I can get), or may even come good after another good stir/oxygenation. This method may be seen as controversial, but practice indicates that it may help when a dicey yeast is pitched.

...and sometimes we just get on here and mount the rostrum and Testify! Can U dig it?


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## newguy (6/10/08)

Your beer will probably be fine if your sanitation is up to snuff. I've personally used smack packs that were 5+ years old with no issues, but I let them swell first and make a starter. I know people that have used packs that were not only old but also frozen too. A friend somehow lost one in his car and discovered it under the seat about a year later. It had endured a Canadian winter with temps as low as -40C. He smacked it and it eventually swelled - it made great beer too.

If there is still no activity today/tonight, can you aerate it? If you don't have a airstone & pump or pure O2 setup, can you perhaps borrow one? If all else fails, just shake the hell out of the fermenter. The added oxygen will help the yeast wake up and get to work.


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## NeilArge (6/10/08)

newguy said:


> Your beer will probably be fine if your sanitation is up to snuff. I've personally used smack packs that were 5+ years old with no issues, but I let them swell first and make a starter. I know people that have used packs that were not only old but also frozen too. A friend somehow lost one in his car and discovered it under the seat about a year later. It had endured a Canadian winter with temps as low as -40C. He smacked it and it eventually swelled - it made great beer too.
> 
> If there is still no activity today/tonight, can you aerate it? If you don't have a airstone & pump or pure O2 setup, can you perhaps borrow one? If all else fails, just shake the hell out of the fermenter. The added oxygen will help the yeast wake up and get to work.



Thanks NG - some cause for hope there. Still no activity this morning, so I got stuck into the fermenter with the stirring spoon and gave it a bloody good agitation, spray bottle in hand. The wort has a magnificent aroma - I can't bare the idea of this one going bad  . I might get another smack pack express posted here and quickly culture it up.

Cheers and fingers crossed,

TunOfGrunt


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## NeilArge (6/10/08)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I reckon that some folks would have to resort to self-flagellation or just post a new thread on "Why AHB is so...", or just go surf some smut, when the swell is low on AHB.
> 
> Or we go to Mrmalty, and see how much of that hybrid yeast you would need...
> With a gravity of 1.048, late 2007 yeast and with "Intermittent shaking" you would need a 2.24 litre starter or 27.3 of those yeast packs. Not lookin' good, Holmes! As long as you keep the thing coolish (as this yeast works best at 18C) and have good sanitary processes, leave it for a while and it may pick up to a pale version of a ferment (pun not intended, but I'll take what kudos I can get), or may even come good after another good stir/oxygenation. This method may be seen as controversial, but practice indicates that it may help when a dicey yeast is pitched.
> ...


Ta Les. Time is the friend of the home brewer but only if one plans well ahead. What a drip I am. As I just said in another post I might get another smackpack express posted up here and get it cultured up as quick as I can. 

Genuflections, etc. 

TunOfGrunt


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## Screwtop (6/10/08)

TunofGrunt said:


> Thanks Screwy. These are excellent points. I do normally double pitch lager yeasts and I did mean to culture this smackpack up because of the date, but things just got a bit ahead of me. Actually, to be frank (instead of ToG) I'd completely overlooked that a cali common was a lager and needed double dose yeast. WTF. IMust have relaxed because of the more relaxed temp. requirements... derr.
> 
> 
> Ya know, this forum has been going for years and has a siht load of info, true.
> ...



Good to see you've been going about things the right way TOG, we all duck fup occasionally and forget starters, there's a few quick and dirty shortcuts like dropping the temp of the wort to 1 or so while you wait for the starter, or if you realise before the boil is finished put it in a no-chill cube until the starter is ready.

Don't want to seem like a grouchy old prick but some of the ol' hands just won't reply when they see a post from a newb that obviously hasn't been researched/searched. Lots of brewers on AHB have been around since the bears were bad and are a terrific source of knowledge, I read every word in their responses when ever they do respond. So often the newb ends up missing out on valuable info and sometimes ends up with lots of replies from less experienced brewers and sometimes even absolute crap advice.

Anyway you will make better beer in the future as we all will from making mistakes. Remember good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement :lol:


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## NeilArge (6/10/08)

Screwtop said:


> Good to see you've been going about things the right way TOG, we all duck fup occasionally and forget starters, there's a few quick and dirty shortcuts like dropping the temp of the wort to 1 or so while you wait for the starter, or if you realise before the boil is finished put it in a no-chill cube until the starter is ready.
> 
> Don't want to seem like a grouchy old prick but some of the ol' hands just won't reply when they see a post from a newb that obviously hasn't been researched/searched. Lots of brewers on AHB have been around since the bears were bad and are a terrific source of knowledge, I read every word in their responses when ever they do respond. So often the newb ends up missing out on valuable info and sometimes ends up with lots of replies from less experienced brewers and sometimes even absolute crap advice.
> 
> Anyway you will make better beer in the future as we all will from making mistakes. Remember good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement :lol:



Goodonya, Screwy. I do feel some guilt and shame  at raising issues that have been well and truly dealt with before, and I understand the ol' bulls being a bit impatient with the young 'uns. I know that it would pee me off. I used to shear with a bloke who used to have a saying, "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get". I try and live by that motto but sometimes life, etc. just trips me up. But I will definitely learn from this one. 

Making my 6th AG today - a SNPA clone (a la Trough Lolly) with Wyeast 1056 bubbling away merrily inside of a big long neck. Gotta go - time to sparge.

Dib dib

ToG


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## Screwtop (6/10/08)

TunofGrunt said:


> Goodonya, Screwy. I do feel some guilt and shame  at raising issues that have been well and truly dealt with before, and I understand the ol' bulls being a bit impatient with the young 'uns. I know that it would pee me off. I used to shear with a bloke who used to have a saying, "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get". I try and live by that motto but sometimes life, etc. just trips me up. But I will definitely learn from this one.
> 
> Making my 6th AG today - a SNPA clone (a la Trough Lolly) with Wyeast 1056 bubbling away merrily inside of a big long neck. Gotta go - time to sparge.
> 
> ...




On ya ToG, great beer to make and even better one to drink. Had a bottle of the original a couple of nights ago, the recipe comes pretty close.


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## NeilArge (6/10/08)

Screwtop said:


> Good to see you've been going about things the right way TOG, we all duck fup occasionally and forget starters, there's a few quick and dirty shortcuts like dropping the temp of the wort to 1 or so while you wait for the starter, or if you realise before the boil is finished put it in a no-chill cube until the starter is ready.
> 
> Don't want to seem like a grouchy old prick but some of the ol' hands just won't reply when they see a post from a newb that obviously hasn't been researched/searched. Lots of brewers on AHB have been around since the bears were bad and are a terrific source of knowledge, I read every word in their responses when ever they do respond. So often the newb ends up missing out on valuable info and sometimes ends up with lots of replies from less experienced brewers and sometimes even absolute crap advice.
> 
> Anyway you will make better beer in the future as we all will from making mistakes. Remember good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement :lol:



Goodonya, Screwy. I do feel some guilt and shame  at raising issues that have been well and truly dealt with before, and I understand the ol' bulls being a bit impatient with the young 'uns. I know that it would pee me off. I used to shear with a bloke who used to have a saying, "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get". I try and live by that motto but sometimes life, etc. just trips me up. But I will definitely learn from this one. 

Making my 6th AG today - a SNPA clone (a la Trough Lolly) with Wyeast 1056 bubbling away merrily inside of a big long neck. Gotta go - time to sparge.

Dib dib

ToG


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## NeilArge (6/10/08)

Screwtop said:


> On ya ToG, great beer to make and even better one to drink. Had a bottle of the original a couple of nights ago, the recipe comes pretty close.



Just to continue the biblical metaphors, etc......Halle-bloody-lujah! Aforementioned steam beer now has a thick brown krausen on it and is bubbling away nicely. So, thanks to all the hot gospelling, genuine great tips, etc. I will always comb this site for advice, tips before doing anything newish again :beer: .
Just tidied up after making the SNPA clone. Hit my targets or got close enough. Now just have to wait a couple of months... Screwy, where did you get the genuine article from? I looked on the International Beer Shop website the other day and they appeared to be out of stock. 
Anyway, thanks for tolerating my amateurish panic. 

Cheers

ToG


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## Gerard_M (6/10/08)

mb83 said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Was just wondering...What is the oldest white labs vial you've used successfully?
> I bought a White Labs German Lager yeast just before spring hit and the temperature went up (I don't have a brew fridge).
> ...



Sorry to take this back on topic, but I had a WLP009 that was 2 years past its best before. I pitched into 2 litres & it fired up over-night ss I pitched the lot into 25 litres the next day. That yeast got a pretty good work out doing our Summer/Cricket Ales, before doing a couple of Porters & a Stout in preparation for Easter. Probably about 12 x 25 litre batches all up!
Cheers
Gerard


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