# Building A Mash Tun



## Siborg (8/3/10)

I'm nearly done building my manifold for my esky mash tun that I'm converting. I've got all the stuff cut to length and all sorted, just need to iron out a few bumps and cut slits in the piping for drainage.

I've basically copied manticle's design from an earlier thread and changed a few things for what I needed/wanted.

Here's the manifold sitting snuggly inside the esky:





At the moment, its sitting on that diagonal piece, which I think may be a problem. I might shorten the long tubes to make it sit closer to the floor of the esky.

Here's the inside connections. It's basically female to female threaded joiner, then a nut and a rubber washer:





Here's the outside. Same thing, just a rubber washer, nut, ball valve.





Filled it with water and there is a slight leak around the outside of the esky where the washer is, and at the join where the ball valve screws on to the threaded pipe. 

I have some tefflon tape lying around... would winding some of that around the threads help with the leaking? Also I could have tightened the nuts on both sides of the esky wall a little more, but being rubbber I was a little hesitant. It was just a quick throw together of all the parts cause I'd had enough of it (copper pipe cutter was a pain in the arse). If worse comes to worse, I might put a bit of silicone around the hole that I drilled for the threaded pipe. I wanted the whole thing to be able to be pulled apart for cleaning, but I'm not too fussed if I have to silicone it.

What do you think?


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## pike1973 (8/3/10)

hi siborg what size esky is that ,you are useing. also what are you going to use for cutting the slots?


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## Siborg (8/3/10)

its a 52L esky. Just a spare one that I had lying around. Gonna use a hacksaw or some sort of power tool, depending on what I can borrow from my mates.


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## manticle (8/3/10)

Definitely use thread tape wherever you have threads and joins.

If that fails you could silicon the outside but thread tape and fiddling should do the trick.

I would shorten the manifold so you have space away from the walls. Otherwise nice job. A hacksaw will work but if you can get your hands on a dremel and some diamond tipped wheels it will make life easier. Remember the safety glasses.


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## pike1973 (8/3/10)

try using a 1mm disc on an angle grinder ,but you will have to remove all the waste from the cut on the inside of the pipe with some thing like a piece of dowell. Good luck.
Ads.


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## Beerbuoy (8/3/10)

manticle said:


> I would shorten the manifold so you have space away from the walls.



I based my tun on John Palmer's idea's in his book How to Brew. It explains mash tun and manifold design in a couple easy to unerstand paragraphs. The bloke spent heaps of time experimenting with fluid flow through the grain bed. From memory having the manifold to close to the edge promotes channeling down the sides of the tun. 




pike1973 said:


> try using a 1mm disc on an angle grinder



+1. 1 mm angle grinder blade. Don't get to fussy. It doesn't make any difference if the slots are not all the same spacing.

Cheers

BB


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## cdbrown (8/3/10)

Don't forget to test it out with some boiling hot water. Mine all seemed to be leak proof until I tipped hot water in ready for the grain. The walls of the esky are very flexible when heated.


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## mxd (8/3/10)

looks good, what are using for washers ? If silicon where did you get them ?

Did your pickle you brass Tee and threaded pipe ?

well done.

Matt


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## Wolfy (8/3/10)

Siborg said:


> What do you think?


Looks very similar to the one I made.
Just a few comments:

The designs on Palmer's book/website indicate that the pipes should be equal distance from each other and 1/2 that distance from the side of the esky - yours actually look very close to the sides.

I also drilled-out the first/central T-piece so that the middle intake connects directly to the outlet - think I remember reading (or hearing on the Brewing Network show) that without doing that the long flow path from the central pickup made it much less effective.

Of course it does depend if you will be batch or fly sparging, as most of his analysis is more relevant to fly sparging.


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## Screwtop (8/3/10)

My 2c, be sure to run the thread tape right through along the thread where it will pass through the esky wall, screw down the nuts on either side. Looks good, there are probably a few finer points which could be taken into account with the design. Have made quite a few of these things and really, the differences in design make very little difference to the results.

Cheers,

Screwy


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## Siborg (8/3/10)

manticle said:


> I would shorten the manifold so you have space away from the walls.


Do you mean the long ones are too close, or the ones with the T's in them? I wanted to have the ones with the T's as close as possible, if not flush against the shorter edged walls to prevent it from moving around too much.



cdbrown said:


> Don't forget to test it out with some boiling hot water. Mine all seemed to be leak proof until I tipped hot water in ready for the grain. The walls of the esky are very flexible when heated.


Good idea. I tested it with cold water today, but I will have to try it with some hot water. Maybe not boiling as mashing/sparging won't be any higher than 80 degrees.



mxd said:


> looks good, what are using for washers ? If silicon where did you get them ?
> 
> Did your pickle you brass Tee and threaded pipe ?
> 
> ...


They're rubber washers. I didn't pay too much attention... Something flexible and big enough to cover the hole. I'll see if I still have the packet. Haven't done a thing to the brass tee and threaded pipe. That's the way I bought em from Bunnings. Should I pickle them?



Wolfy said:


> Looks very similar to the one I made.
> Just a few comments:
> 
> The designs on Palmer's book/website indicate that the pipes should be equal distance from each other and 1/2 that distance from the side of the esky - yours actually look very close to the sides.
> ...


I measured it up to be 1/2 the distance of the distance between the middle pieces. The brass T made it a little wider, 20mm, so its 30mm away from the wall instead of 45mm (space between long pipes was meant to be 80mm, now 90mm)

I'll be batch sparging anyway, so it probably won't be too much of an issue.



Screwtop said:


> My 2c, be sure to run the thread tape right through along the thread where it will pass through the esky wall, screw down the nuts on either side. Looks good, there are probably a few finer points which could be taken into account with the design. Have made quite a few of these things and really, the differences in design make very little difference to the results.


Yeah. I found a role of teflon that I'll run through all the threads and tighten the f**k out of those nuts near the washers.

Cheers for the feedback guys!


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## mxd (9/3/10)

Siborg said:


> Haven't done a thing to the brass tee and threaded pipe. That's the way I bought em from Bunnings. Should I pickle them?



I have the same in my development at the moment and I pickled them last night, not too sure if they should be pickled. ?


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## manticle (9/3/10)

Pickling brass removes any lead content. Just give it a soak in some white vinegar and cold water.

You should have some clearance from the walls on all sides. Mine is probably 20mm around all sides.


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## glaab (9/3/10)

I like to sweat one of these flanged backnuts on. It always seems to wanna leak through the threads. A silicon washer behind there and she'll never leak a drop


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## Siborg (9/3/10)

manticle said:


> Pickling brass removes any lead content. Just give it a soak in some white vinegar and cold water.
> 
> You should have some clearance from the walls on all sides. Mine is probably 20mm around all sides.



Yeah, I'll give that a go... Don't want lead in my beer!


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## Pollux (9/3/10)

I recently built my first decent tun, for the slits I used a $8.99 pipe cutter from bunnings, but instead of rotating it right around the pipe as one would to cut it I simply rocked it over half the pipe while slowly increasing the pressure, worked for me.


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## Siborg (9/3/10)

Pollux said:


> I recently built my first decent tun, for the slits I used a $8.99 pipe cutter from bunnings, but instead of rotating it right around the pipe as one would to cut it I simply rocked it over half the pipe while slowly increasing the pressure, worked for me.


How long did that take you? I have the same tool and was considering doing that too, but I reckon it would take ages and I'm worried that it might make the slit too wide as it did when I was cutting my copper pipe to length


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## Pollux (9/3/10)

ummm, roughly 35-40 cuts done in around 15 minutes......

This was after I tried both drilling and a hacksaw. Certainly quicker than either.


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## Siborg (9/3/10)

manticle said:


> Pickling brass removes any lead content. Just give it a soak in some white vinegar and cold water.
> 
> You should have some clearance from the walls on all sides. Mine is probably 20mm around all sides.


How long for?



Pollux said:


> ummm, roughly 35-40 cuts done in around 15 minutes......
> 
> This was after I tried both drilling and a hacksaw. Certainly quicker than either.


I'll try it on an offcut and see if its any good for me. I got alot of time to kill today, so I might end up doing that. That and I can't wait any longer... I want it done yesterday!


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## mxd (9/3/10)

Siborg said:


> How long for?



Courtesy of John Palmer:

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html

6th paragraph. - *Cleaning Brass

*


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## Pennywise (9/3/10)

My advice, don't try and drill holes. The really really thin drill bit you'll need will just keep snapping.


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## TasChris (9/3/10)

I found that it was difficult to get a good seal against the wall of the esky as the plastic always starts to bend and warp if you apply to much pressure especially when hot.
I found if I put a 2 inch by 2 inch square of stainless on either side ( with a hole drilled through) of the esky wall it helped to spread the load and I could then get a better seal. I also use silicon washers made from silicon bakeware every where, cheapest way.

Cheers
Chris


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## Siborg (10/3/10)

TasChris said:


> I found that it was difficult to get a good seal against the wall of the esky as the plastic always starts to bend and warp if you apply to much pressure especially when hot.
> I found if I put a 2 inch by 2 inch square of stainless on either side ( with a hole drilled through) of the esky wall it helped to spread the load and I could then get a better seal. I also use silicon washers made from silicon bakeware every where, cheapest way.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris


Good idea... I'd just need something capable of drilling through stainless steel! I'm a little lacking in the power tools department at the moment... working ones anyway.

I ended up throwing the pipe cutter to the shitouse... Actually keeping it to get my money back tomorrow. The f**king thing fell to pieces! Went up to the 24hr Kmart in Burwood and got 12 hacksaw blades for $6! Ok, there is probably better quality blades out there, but these worked a treat. I did half of a pipe with the cutting tool which shall remain nameless ( :angry: ), and finished up the other half and the whole other pipe with the hacksaw... Was a far cleaner cut and I ended up cleaning up that piece of shit's mistakes with it too.

Gonna finish up the middle piece tomorrow. 

Upon advice from you guys, I've shortened all the pipes a little to get em away from the walls. The two long pipes are 35mm away (not quite half of 80mm, but close enough) and I didn't measure the short ones, but they sit a little more comfortably rather than smack bang up against the wall.

Will post the final pics tomorrow and see if I can get that thread to stop leaking with a bit of thread tape.

p.s. I pickled the brass and I'll probably do the same with the copper to clean off any oxide and other shit (markings etc) as per John Palmer's "Bible"


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## rude (10/3/10)

TasChris said:


> I found that it was difficult to get a good seal against the wall of the esky as the plastic always starts to bend and warp if you apply to much pressure especially when hot.
> I found if I put a 2 inch by 2 inch square of stainless on either side ( with a hole drilled through) of the esky wall it helped to spread the load and I could then get a better seal. I also use silicon washers made from silicon bakeware every where, cheapest way.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris



I did the same with the silocone bakeware used a wad punch to make the washers


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## Siborg (10/3/10)

rude said:


> I did the same with the silocone bakeware used a wad punch to make the washers



hmmm. might have to see if I can get some of it on the cheap at the W that is Big


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## Pollux (10/3/10)

Sweet jesus, how rough were you with that pipe cutter? I did all my cuts and mine is still in one piece and looks as it did when it came out of the pack.....


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## Siborg (10/3/10)

Pollux said:


> Sweet jesus, how rough were you with that pipe cutter? I did all my cuts and mine is still in one piece and looks as it did when it came out of the pack.....


Not that rough... was taking my time with each cut... believe me. I reckon it was just a cheap as shit tool.

The cheap ass hacksaw blades did the trick. Did em all in 1/4 of the time it took. A vice (not overtightened) also helps. I was using .91mm thick hardened copper by the way... not the soft, bendable stuff. 

I'll upload the pics in a min and you can all see the finished product.


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## Pollux (11/3/10)

Ahhh, that would make a difference, mine wasn't hardened, I bent it into shape using just my hands.....


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## Mobbee007 (11/3/10)

Am planning my first mash tun & this info & advice has been invaluable just 1 question is there any difference in effectiveness between slots & holes? I work in a huge engineering company so could do either?


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## Siborg (11/3/10)

RexBanner said:


> Am planning my first mash tun & this info & advice has been invaluable just 1 question is there any difference in effectiveness between slots & holes? I work in a huge engineering company so could do either?



Rex... I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, just as long as they are fine enough to stop grains from getting through.


I've had a bit of a thought about my design and had another read through Palmer's section on manifolds and I reckon that the original way is a bit inefficient because it has a long way to travel before it reaches the outside of the esky. I went out and grabbed a couple more T joins and I think this might be a little better (excuse the dodgy editing):






This would provide a more direct means of exit for the middle pipe, and they all have roughly the same distance to travel to the exit.

Any thoughts?


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## mxd (12/3/10)

looks good well done.


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## Supra-Jim (12/3/10)

It's looking good there Siborg. You've got to be itching to get some grain in there and give it a good run!!

Cheers SJ


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## Siborg (12/3/10)

Supra-Jim said:


> It's looking good there Siborg. You've got to be itching to get some grain in there and give it a good run!!
> 
> Cheers SJ


He'll yeah. I'll need a heat source for the keggle too. And a chiller or a cube... Soon


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## absinthe (12/3/10)

a note on the pickling of brass fittings.. if you are concerned with lead leaching then i hope you have no brass fittings in your house. as chlorine would leach lead much faster than wort. and if you live in areas who have chloramine in the water then its even worse


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## zoidbergmerc (12/3/10)

Siborg said:


>




They actually sell pipe with holes in it like that at work down stairs in irrigation.

Looks pretty sweet though, I might make something like this too, I've got an old eski that the handles are broken on, so it's pretty useless as an eski.


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## Wolfy (12/3/10)

Siborg said:


> This would provide a more direct means of exit for the middle pipe, and they all have roughly the same distance to travel to the exit.
> 
> Any thoughts?


As per my previous (_probably not very well explained suggestion_) I think that drilling out the top t-piece is easier than adding 3 more t-pieces to get direct-to-outlet flow from the middle leg of the manifold.

Here's mine (_saves trying to explain_):




And pulled apart for cleaning:





Have to agree with the hacksaw though, much easier than trying to use the pipe-cutter, and probably the best option if you don't have access to more professional tools.


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## Siborg (12/3/10)

Hmm... good idea. Thinking outside of the box there!

I ended up doing it the way I posted. I scored a flanged nut from beer belly and there are no leaks at all. I end up loosing ~1.4L deadspace, but I'm not too concerned seeing as its my first crack at something like this. I'll probably upgrade to something better/ more efficient when I can afford it in the future.


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## jiesu (12/3/10)

What would be the advantages to using a slotted pipe over a false bottom? It looks to me to be less effecient and a shitload harder to clean?


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## praxis178 (12/3/10)

daft templar said:


> What would be the advantages to using a slotted pipe over a false bottom? It looks to me to be less effecient and a shitload harder to clean?



That was my concern too, so I went with a falsy, home made just to keep it kosher, but all stainless perforated plate (1mm, I just measured them, holes), and misc threaded SS fittings, all told about $30 or so from the local irrigation place. The perforated plate was out of their bumpster, and cleaned up a treat with the gernie and a long soak in Sodium percarbonate.....


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## mxd (12/3/10)

daft templar said:


> What would be the advantages to using a slotted pipe over a false bottom? It looks to me to be less effecient and a shitload harder to clean?



I always assumed price and "jams" and damage (i.e too much weight, or force) ?


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## Wolfy (12/3/10)

daft templar said:


> What would be the advantages to using a slotted pipe over a false bottom? It looks to me to be less effecient and a shitload harder to clean?


The fact it's cheaper and are really the main advantages, it's not hard to put together and you can custom fit it yourself.
If you're batch sparging there is no real impact on efficiency, a steel-braid does just as well (but is less permanent and more fiddly).


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## nardcooker (12/3/10)

FYI Aldi has silicon bakeware at the moment, heaps of it going cheap.

http://aldi.com.au/au/html/offers/2827_12345.htm

edit: link


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## boybrewer (12/3/10)

That looks great Siborg well done I am glad that there are no leaks . If you want some heat for your keggle you are most welcome to borrow my burner and gas bottle .


Cheers
Beerbelly


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## Siborg (12/3/10)

beer belly said:


> That looks great Siborg well done I am glad that there are no leaks . If you want some heat for your keggle you are most welcome to borrow my burner and gas bottle .
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Beerbelly


hmmm... may have to take you up on that offer, as soon as I get some grains.


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## grod5 (12/3/10)

Manticle inspired. Crimped only for easy breakdown and cleaning (26L Esky).


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## Siborg (13/3/10)

grod5 said:


> Manticle inspired. Crimped only for easy breakdown and cleaning (26L Esky).


Looks pretty good. Got any pics of the inside/outside esky wall? That's where I had my biggest problems with leaking. All good now... Time for my first mash in a tun.


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## Barley Belly (13/3/10)

Siborg said:


> Looks pretty good. Got any pics of the inside/outside esky wall? That's where I had my biggest problems with leaking. All good now... Time for my first mash in a tun.



Here's some pics of mine
I had some leaking issues as well
Solved them with a big staino washer and a silicon bakeware one each side and a piece of conduit over the threaded brass tube, inside the esky wall, so the washers had something to pull tight against instead of just pulling the esky walls together. The slots in the copper were done with a 1mm angle grinder blade (quick and easy)


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## Siborg (13/3/10)

grod5 said:


> Manticle inspired


Nuff said!



Barley Belly said:


> Here's some pics of mine
> I had some leaking issues as well
> Solved them with a big staino washer and a silicon bakeware one each side and a piece of conduit over the threaded brass tube, inside the esky wall, so the washers had something to pull tight against instead of just pulling the esky walls together. The slots in the copper were done with a 1mm angle grinder blade (quick and easy)


Nice. Very neat. The cut up silicone bakeware sounds like a great idea. I'll have to try and grab some from aldi. I was gonna mod mine to have four long lengths, but I was worried about the distance between the two middle ones, and it would have been cramped. I probably still could, I have enough copper left, I'd just need to get a couple more T's. Nice work on the cuts, too. I wish I had an angle grinder! Hacksaw wasn't too bad, though.


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## grod5 (14/3/10)

Before I tried to put anything through the wall of my cheap arse esky I knew I would have some issues with sompressing the insulation so I looked at something that had a broad flange (I said flange). I found a plumbing supply place that had water tank fittings that were suitable. 

A few downsides being that due to the size of the said flange, the manifold does not sit flush on the bottom of the sky at the tap end increasing deadspace. I lift the back end of the wsky to compensate during runoff to lessen D/S to 0.3 litres. Other downside is that it isnot food grade so I (and other partakers of my shitty beer) are in for an eadly death. If I knew Ross had the answer, I would have gone with his product first up but I'm too lazy to change it now.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3637

daniel


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## thom (16/3/10)

This is a very interesting thread. I've got plans to put together a mashtun, but I have one (possibly silly?) question. What type of copper piping have you all used? Does it make a difference between wall thickness or rigidity?


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## manticle (16/3/10)

Hard copper pipe is best in my experience. I know some people have had success bending annealed copper to shape but when I tried it just kinked. Easier to cut to size and fit together with tees and elbows. From memory it's 3/4 inch but just the basic stuff that's available at bunnings. You don't need much (depending on the size of your tun). The actual diameter of the copper is really only relevant to making sure that it fits the other fittings you use - the size of the slots shouldn't be too large though.


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## yardy (20/3/10)

some tips and pics here as well for budding tun builders http://www.brodiescastlebrewing.com/index.php?topic=948.0

Dave


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## manticle (20/3/10)

^ -my inspirational pic thread when I made mine


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