# Saison DuPont



## sav (21/3/13)

Ok saison DuPont or close any won close, is it straight diggs pils or a bit of crystal for colour .
I am not boiling for 2 hours so forget it.
EKG and styrings at 30 ibu come on feed back.
Sav 
Winkle pipe in.
Cheers sav


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## manticle (21/3/13)

Continuous step mash from 45 to 72 over 110 minutes.
Wyeast belgian saison strain fermented hot
100% pilsner (Dingemans or another available belgian type makes sense)
Hops at 60 and 0

Info from farmhouse ales about dupont ingredients and practice.

My own saisons I believe are quite nice but I won't pretend I'm brewing dupont clones. Mainly belgian pils, some wheat and either spalt & hallertauer or hallertaur and styrians. 60, 20 and 0 to around 35 IBU, usually 3711 or PC farmhouse, fermented at ambient in summer, FG around 1005.

Step mash 55/62/68/72/78
Time: 5/15/45/10/10

90 min minimum boil.


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## hoppy2B (21/3/13)

I read somewhere Dupont used a wine yeast for their Saison.


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## goomboogo (21/3/13)

Where did you read that?


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## bum (21/3/13)

Some thread here, most likely.


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## goomboogo (21/3/13)

A reliable source then.


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## beers (29/3/13)

The DuPont strain is thought to have originated from a red wine yeast strain.


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## Nick JD (29/3/13)

The attenuation says a lot about it's origin. That ain't no beer yeast. It'd eat your hand if you held it in there long enough.

Doesn't even wake up until you get out the blowtorch.


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## hoppy2B (29/3/13)

I think I read it in a newspaper article online. Might have been the article where they named it the best beer in the world. Said its fermented warm and aged warm as well.


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## Yob (29/3/13)

Probably use frozen wet hops too


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## Nick JD (29/3/13)

I ferment mine at 35C.


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## hoppy2B (31/3/13)

Yob said:


> Probably use frozen wet hops too


Well I guess in that case you won't be able to recommend any hops that people can buy from you to brew one tweet.


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## Charst (31/3/13)

hoppy2B said:


> I read somewhere Dupont used a wine yeast for their Saison.




The yeast is said to have originated as a red wine yeast but evolved to break down longer chains of sugar (maltotriose etc) that normal wine yeast supposedly dont. 

It doesn't mean you could dump any wine yeast on and bang = Saison

From memory (scotch and stout riddled memory tonight) its only aged in the bottle 6 weeks prior to sale.


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## hoppy2B (31/3/13)

There are many different wine yeasts, some of which ferment out the wine very dry. Using one could give a similar result.


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## felten (31/3/13)

wine doesn't have maltotriose in it...


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## Nick JD (31/3/13)

Is maltotriose the sugar that _lager _yeast can't eat?


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## manticle (31/3/13)

My understanding is that both ale and lager yeasts can digest some maltotriose but lager yeast will generally perfom better in this regard. They also can digest other sugars that ale strains struggle with, such as raffinose and melibiose but the effect of those sugars on attenuation is minimal/negligible.


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## hoppy2B (31/3/13)

felten said:


> wine doesn't have maltotriose in it...


Maltase, which yeast produce, gets its name from where it was discovered. And the naming of said enzyme has bugger all to do with the erroneous belief that beer yeast possess some mystical ability to digest maltose, purportedly lacking in other yeast such as those used to ferment wine.


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## felten (31/3/13)

I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to say..


But it is a fact that some yeast strains cannot ferment maltotriose at all, and some are not good at utilizing all of it.


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## Lurks (14/4/13)

"erroneous belief that beer yeast possess some mystical ability to digest maltose"

I'm sure you didn't mean to say that?


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## Nick JD (14/4/13)

The yeast I buy can digest maltose. I can send you some if you'd like and then you will drink beer and not fizzy wort, like I do.


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## hoppy2B (14/4/13)

Nick JD said:


> The yeast I buy can digest maltose. I can send you some if you'd like and then you will drink beer and not fizzy wort, like I do.


No thanks, I don't wish to drink fizzy wort like you do. :unsure:


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## manticle (14/4/13)

hoppy2B said:


> Maltase, which yeast produce, gets its name from where it was discovered. And the naming of said enzyme has bugger all to do with the erroneous belief that beer yeast possess some mystical ability to digest maltose, purportedly lacking in other yeast such as those used to ferment wine.


Who said anything about wine yeast being unable to metabolise maltose?


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## hoppy2B (14/4/13)

manticle said:


> Who said anything about wine yeast being unable to metabolise maltose?


That's been the inference on numerous occasion. A lot of brewers on here seem to hold that belief.
Its funny because when I have mentioned to the people at brewcraft as well as winequip that I intended to use wine yeast to ferment my beer, they have both been of the opinion that it would over attenuate. They might have attenuation confused with alco tolerance.


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## manticle (14/4/13)

I don't remember ever seeing anyone write that. Do you have any links to these numerous ocassions?

I'd never be surprised at anything a brewcraft person might suggest and I'd seldom listen.


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## hoppy2B (14/4/13)

No because I can't be bothered looking them up and I have to go a bottling now, hiho hiho... h34r:


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## Yob (14/4/13)

Suggesting that a brewcraft salesman could be confused is erroneous.. Suggesting that they know shit from clay is also erroneous.. 

How about those links when you have finished? Genuinely curious as to which brewers on here hold with this thought.


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## felten (14/4/13)

The issue is with *maltoTRIOSE*, not maltose. They're different.


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## manticle (14/4/13)

hoppy2B said:


> I can't be bothered


Then stop writing unsubstantiated bullshit.

Sorry for the utter derailment of the thread Sav.


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## hoppy2B (14/4/13)

Yeah well I'm not really interested in the hearsay that the old wives brew club insists in perpetuating. I just hope most individuals reading it have the common sense to realize what you're saying is just nonsense.


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## treefiddy (14/4/13)

hoppy2B said:


> Yeah well I'm not really interested in the hearsay that the old wives brew club insists in perpetuating. I just hope most individuals reading it have the common sense to realize what you're saying is just nonsense.


So google it.

"saccharomyces cerevisiae maltose metabolism"

131,000 results, but don't worry because the first result is an academic review giving you all the information and references you need to confirm.


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## beerdrinkingbob (14/4/13)

Wish speedy was around to settle this!!!!


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## Lurks (14/4/13)

He's trolling right? He has to be trolling.


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## Yob (14/4/13)

Nope, sadly, par for the course


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