# Has Anyone Tried Double Dropping?



## Bribie G (3/3/11)

I know that Butters experimented with double dropping, but we no longer have the benefit of his advice, although I'll see if I can raise him on the Adelaide forum. However has anyone tried the good old doubler? I see from my yeast book that Fullers did this within living memory and Brakspear (at Wychwood) still do it. 

The advantage seems to be that it leaves some unwanted protein in the "top" vessel and gives the wort a good second aeration right when it needs it, i.e. around the end of the 'lag' phase when it's probably depleted the original O2 and the extra shot gives it a boost to breed up a bit further prior to doing its alcohol producing phase. 

Making a Yorkie today and tempted to try it.

Edit: I'd probably look at a 25L initial length and waste the bit left in the top vessel - hang the expense B)


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## Cortez The Killer (3/3/11)

Isn't it the same as racking to secondary before primary fermentation is finished?

Cheers


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## Bribie G (3/3/11)

Not quite - the idea is to do the "drop" within 24 hours of pitching and to encourage oxygen take-up. When racking to secondary after a few days of primary, on the other hand, oxygen is the last thing you want.


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## gap (3/3/11)

If this "double", or second ,"drop" is done at 24 hours after start of fermentation
what is the "first" drop and when is it done and ????

Regards

Graeme


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## Florian (3/3/11)

First drop would be into your fermenter from kettle/chiller/cube.


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## Bribie G (3/3/11)

Yes, first drop aerates the wort initially, but according to my _Yeast_ book all that oxygen is absorbed by the yeast within 12 hours, so the second drop "refreshes" the aeration etc and helps to build up more yeast to do the heavy lifting for the rest of primary.


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## schooey (3/3/11)

I guess I half do it... I don't change vessels, but I have been giving the wort a second shot of oxygen at 12 hours and starters at 6 hours since I started using O2. That and a few other tricks with yeast have improved fermentation flaws I used to get


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## Bribie G (3/3/11)

Yes that extra shot at 12 hours seems to be the main recommendation in the Yeast book - I've been giving it a thrashing with the slotted spoon next day after pitching, I feel the double drop should do a more effective aeration and leave any hot break etc that may have snuck into the cube initially, as well as a lot of the cold break. The CB doesn't seem to do any harm, it sinks down as part of the "cake" in the fermenter, but best left behind so I'll get a tad more beer out of the primary. :icon_cheers:


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## RobB (3/3/11)

Double dropping video:

Brakspear video link

Could be good fun to try, but you would want to get your timing right to avoid oxidation.


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## Thirsty Boy (3/3/11)

its just racking off your cold break and/or a way to add a bit of oxygen -- maybe racking into something like a burton union after giving your yeast a chance to get hold. Mostly used for things like English ales when the whole shooting match is done and dusted in three-four days flat -- 24 hours is significantly into the fermentation period. If you are instead taking a week or more to ferment to finished... then racking to secondary is essentially the same thing. If you want the extra oxygen, try perhaps giving your fermenter a swirl/shake at the 18-24 hr mark.


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## raven19 (3/3/11)

Butters did mention this in passing in a Brew Adelaide thread - my initial reaction is its just another chance for my beer to get infected, something I have been fighting against for a few brews now!

I do like the idea of getting more oxygen into the young beer though.


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## Strange Brew (3/3/11)

Sounds like its worth a try. Maybe it can decrease the incidents of English yeast strains stalling.


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## Bribie G (3/3/11)

I rarely get the 3 or 4 day fermentation, although I do brew > 5% ABV. I've dropped my grain bill this time and see if I get a quicker fermentation, sometimes it hangs on for over a week and I tend to blame that on not getting the fermentation off to as brisk a start as the UK breweries seem to do.


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## DUANNE (3/3/11)

i have found since using oxygen that sluggish fermentations are a thing of the past with the pommy yeasts. so if shaking is your only aereation then the double drop could really be the thing to get the ferment going hard as it can.


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## Thirsty Boy (3/3/11)

BribieG said:


> I rarely get the 3 or 4 day fermentation, although I do brew > 5% ABV. I've dropped my grain bill this time and see if I get a quicker fermentation, sometimes it hangs on for over a week and I tend to blame that on not getting the fermentation off to as brisk a start as the UK breweries seem to do.



top cropping Bribie - that's the secret to the whole english ale thing. Super ******* yeast!!!

Take that yeast pitch off the top at high krausen and you can keep it going unchanged for hundreds of pitches, and the stuff is all A team, kill kill kill - number one healthy stuff.

Top crop, use a double drop, burton union, yorky square etc etc (which all introduce mid fermentation O2) and it will be 3-4 days, over. time only required to clear the beer.

finish in the cask with one or even 2 rounds of finings - or not depending on the yeast strain and the fermentation vessel.


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## Bribie G (3/3/11)

Top cropping it is, then :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers:


Edit: and it makes perfect sense with yeasts like 1469 because using slurry or yeastcake, probably three quarters of the stuff is probably going to be settled out break and yeast hulls anyway. As I found out in my cold break experiment: recycled piccie:


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## Malted (3/3/11)

BribieG said:


> Yes... I've been giving it a thrashing ... I feel the double drop... doesn't seem to do any harm, it sinks down... as part of the ... tad



Yes I get quite excited about brewing too. How's your eye sight? :lol:


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## schooey (3/3/11)

Kinda pertinent to this thread I guess...







This is a beer I did for the HUB brewing challenge. Shawn from Murray's provided us with 100 mL of slurry of his house ale yeast blend and 100g of hops to go away and brew a beer... No idea what the yeast blend is but it didn't really matter. I pitched this into a tad under 20 L of 1.056 wort that had a 30 second shot of fine O2 bubbles. Six hours later when I got up, I had a peek and figured if I didn't give it another shot it would be too late, so I gave it another 10 second shot of fine bubbles at the bottom, rousing what yeast had settled.

At 8 hours, it was climbing out of the airlock the 30 L fermenter. Four days later, finished, 1.013 and I racked it onto the dry hops. I wish I had of thought to take the yeast cake photo before I disturbed it like I did. The wort was actually quite bright and the cake was very compact and it had dropped like a rock.

Ferments like this with English and American Ale yeasts have been the norm for me since I changed my fermentation and yeast process, with the exception of one IIPA which was a bit of a bitch, but I think that was my fault. The wheat yeasts go even crazier, with 30L climbing to the top of a 60L fermenter.


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## Jimmeh (3/3/11)

BribieG said:


> I know that Butters experimented with double dropping, but we no longer have the benefit of his advice



Where did Butters go?

(Sorry to go off topic)


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## Cocko (3/3/11)

Jimmeh said:


> Where did Butters go?



He ran off to Vegas and married a man called Darren.

Each to their own.


:icon_cheers:


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## marksfish (4/3/11)

:lol:


Cocko said:


> He ran off to Vegas and married a man called Darren.
> 
> Each to their own.
> 
> ...



:lol:


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## Bribie G (6/3/11)

OK back on track :icon_cheers: 

I have brewed a red ale:

4500 Perle
300 Caraaroma
200 Carared

64 degrees 60 mins

18 Northern Brewer 60 mins
90 Fuggles flowers NZ 10 mins


No chill, pitched next day - 1469 from previous yeast cake. I used my 25L fermenter to kick things off, around 24L in the FV.

After 16 hours in the primary at around 17 we are getting yeast:







Place on counter, spoon the top crop of yeast into a sanitized 30L FV and position it on floor below, starsan everything including tap.






Start the drop: I had to do it in two stages due to foaming, during the rest I covered both FVs with starsanned lids. Stop dropping when some turbid stuff started coming through.
If you look carefully at the bottom of the FV you will see a definite 'hard' layer of crap, maybe the fermentation "curdles" it or something? It looks like all the cold break could be down there.











End result, a normal quantity of wort in the FV plus a jug of absolutely disgusting looking crud that looked like something you would pump out of a restaurant grease trap.












So now I've got a fermenter of cleansed wort with some pure fresh yeast in it, nicely aerated (twice) and bedded down at 19 degrees. Can't wait for this one. I reckon the jug contains break and crap from the original bit of yeast cake as well. I'll top crop out of primary in a day or so for the next brew (Yes Thirsty Boy I've been taking notice :icon_cheers: )

The main thing is that all that crud has been removed from the brew - amazing how it compacted down into a distinct almost firm layer at the bottom. I can well see why the UK breweries used this method. If this produces a better, cleaner, faster fermenting ale I'll do it all the time from now on. :icon_drunk:


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## RdeVjun (6/3/11)

As usual, an excellent pictorial guide Bribie! :icon_cheers: (I also note there's a toucan stout headbanger on the books! :icon_drunk: )
Yep, the foam can get a bit outrageous, either this way or the daily thrashing with a spoon.
One word of advice when doing this sort of thing, in humid conditions drops of condensation form on the outside of the upper fermenter, then forms a puddle and can drip in the lower one over the edge of the table/ bench. Obviously this is an infection risk, however a tea towel or something absorbent can help prevent it. Also, we have had loads of flying insects of late, so I've been toying with the idea of using a transfer tube into the receiving fermenter with some film on. Without any precautions, invariably one will find its way into the fermenter and stuff things up. The aeration probably isn't quite as vigorous though and of course this isn't the sort of thing I'd do after about day 2.


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## RobB (8/3/11)

Did you take a gravity reading before the drop Bribie? Am I right in assuming that this should be done before the gravity starts to drop, so that you aren't oxidising the beer portion while oxygenating the wort portion?


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## Bribie G (8/3/11)

No, but the commercial UK breweries seemed to often do the drop at 24 hours, but to be on the safe side I went for 16 hours like Brakespear do, so they obviously don't seem to have a problem with it.


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## Punkal (8/3/11)

The way i see it is by dropping you are trying to introduce oxygen into the brew so you get a larger number of cells so you get a better/more complete fermentation... 

The best time to do it would be during the lag phase because that is when the yeast are using the oxygen to grow and multiply...

Thanks to John Palmer...
Lag Phase - The period of adaptation and rapid aerobic growth of yeast upon pitching to the wort. The lag time typically lasts from 2-12 hours.

Not trying to be smart the question has been asked a few time so i thought i would try to explain it and break up the answer a little bit... I also think 16 hours would be a good time to pitch i think 24 may be a little to long...


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## raven19 (8/3/11)

Great pics Bribie.

Will watch this thread with interest once sampling time comes around.

Pitching onto a whole yeast cake certainly would lean me closer to a 12 hour drop than a 24 hour drop too.

Benefit of extra oxygen *hopefully* outweighs the (possible) nasties getting into the brew during transfer.


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## pimpsqueak (8/3/11)

Seems like a pretty sound idea to me. I will definitely try it on a future brew.


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## Bribie G (8/3/11)

I'm thinking of doing it on 12 hours next time for the exact reasons stated above, and also adding a little bit extra pure yeast culture at that stage. They discussed double dropping on Jim's beer kit a couple of years ago and some of the guys were getting stuck fermentations - presumably because they were leaving too much yeast behind in the top vessel and not getting enough yeast in the bottom vessel. 

I'll try it with my next US-05 pale ale / faux lager and just add an extra sachet, rehydrated, into the collection vessel and see how that goes :icon_cheers:


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## RobB (8/3/11)

I've only ever seen this technique associated with english ales. Is there any reason why it wouldn't suit other styles, particularly lagers?


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## Wolfy (8/3/11)

I think when you do it will mostly depend on the yeast involved.
If you do it too late the yeast will already be fermenting and you'll get oxidation issues, but too early and there will be no advantage or not enough yeast transferred.

(And per my comments on the JBK site, I'm with *RdeVjun *about covering the bottom fermenter with glad wrap or similar while you transfer).


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## [email protected] (8/3/11)

I have had a look online about double dropping and Brakspear's process. It turns out that they were purposefully doing at 16 + hours to oxidise the beer and develop a distinctive butterscotch flavour due to oxidised diacetyl.

ref: www.foodprocessing-technology.com/projects/brakspear/

Not sure I would want this in all my beers!


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## Bribie G (8/3/11)

I'd say the diacetyl is more about using extra aeration to promoting a rapid fermentation and thus attenuating and packaging the beer before the yeast has had a chance to completely clean up after itself. Not the oxygenation itself.

Personally I like diacetyl in many UK ales.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (8/3/11)

BribieG said:


> OK back on track :icon_cheers:
> 
> I have brewed a red ale:
> 
> ...



WTF BribieG???? No Adjuncts??? Did aldi run outta white rice and polenta?? :lol: 

Ok..... Back on track again.......


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## Bribie G (8/3/11)

Polenta brew coming up shortly (pale continental lager) :icon_cheers: 

Yeah the yeast book has steered me towards the straight and narrow with UK and German / Bo styles but polenta and rice and sugaz unashamedly have their place:




:icon_drunk:


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## bowie in space (8/3/11)

Hey Bribie, do you reckon I can combine double dropping with the braukaiser method discussed in my post a few days ago? I could potentially;


pour cube one into fermenter one and pitch a starter of wyeast that is at high krausen
16-24 hours later vigourosly transfer only _half_ the beer from fermenter one to fermenter two
 pour half of the second cube from my double batch into both fermenters
Is this a possibility?

In my case with the California Common recipe, the yeast will settle at the bottom rather than the top right? So I can't top crop. How can I get around this? Not really hijacking this thread but combining two together!

Bowie


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## Nick JD (8/3/11)

I see the Bribie Rice Malt comes with pink lids. I prefer the blue lid stuff myself.  I might make an entire "Fizzy Saki" some time with it.

I've never double dropped (not with beer anyway) but I have tertiary fermented.


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## Bribie G (8/3/11)

bowie in space said:


> Hey Bribie, do you reckon I can combine double dropping with the braukaiser method discussed in my post a few days ago? I could potentially;
> 
> 
> pour cube one into fermenter one and pitch a starter of wyeast that is at high krausen
> ...



That would give it a good aeration boost, but wouldn't achieve the other objective of getting the beer off the crud - but because, in your case, you are trying to get two vigorous fermentations going from one batch of yeast, yes it should do that as long as you don't do it too late and risk oxidising the beer.

:icon_cheers: 

:icon_offtopic: Nick, the blue lids are sooooo yesterday, pink is the new blue  

or the new batch from Xgxhgn Dwong or wherever they make the stuff


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## BjornJ (11/3/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> top cropping Bribie - that's the secret to the whole english ale thing. Super ******* yeast!!!
> 
> Take that yeast pitch off the top at high krausen and you can keep it going unchanged for hundreds of pitches, and the stuff is all A team, kill kill kill - number one healthy stuff.
> 
> ...





BribieG:
Great pictorial as always, interesting stuff!



ThirstyBoy:
Is there a difference between taking some of the krausen with yeast or taking yeast from the bottom of the fermenter after fermentation has finished?
(in the sense that the yeast is "better" in any way)

Would that be a way of getting healthier yeast in a bottle to store for next time, rather than bottle some of the stuff left at the bottom of the fermenter is what I am asking, I guess.

Thinking of the comment about this stuff will remain unchanged for lots of pitches.

thanks
Bjorn


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## raven19 (11/3/11)

BjornJ said:


> Is there a difference between taking some of the krausen with yeast or taking yeast from the bottom of the fermenter after fermentation has finished?
> (in the sense that the yeast is "better" in any way)



Krausen on top should be healthier for sure, more active, and provide better attenuation (especially in an ale).

My understanding also is using the krausen also reduces generational changes in the yeast so you can keep top cropping and reuse for much longer periods.


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## Bribie G (11/3/11)

Krausen on the top is yeast yeast yeast. I top cropped some two days ago and you could pick up what looked like some foam but it was actually almost solid and I could work it in my fingers to make a ball the consistency of Philly Cheese (obviously won't be using THAT bit for a brew  ) However from my cold break exercise last year I can bet that the bottom sludge is probably 80% protein break and yeast hulls that didn't make the grade, hop debris, etc. 

Fermentation well and truly over, BTW, D rest till Sunday morning then quick cold crash and sample maybe Thursday - will post :beerbang:


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## ric004 (21/3/11)

Hi I was reading your post how did you go with this?


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## Bribie G (23/3/11)

ric said:


> Hi I was reading your post how did you go with this?



I haven't tapped the keg yet, but I'm taking a bottle to BABBs meeting tomorrow. :icon_cheers:


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## Phoney (23/3/11)

I tried it today with an IPA / London WY1028 Ale yeast.

With 150g of hops I just found a 1" thick layer of green sludge at the bottom of the top fermenter. So I tipped that down the sink, gave the top fermenter a rinse and then done a third (triple?) drop from the bottom vessel back into the original fermenter. (Only because that had the tempmate probe taped to the side)


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## argon (31/3/11)

I did a double drop (of sorts) the other night for American Brown Ale. Worked pretty well. 

I only had 1 packet of US 05, but had a double batch of beer = 40L in 2 cubes

So what i did was;
- rehydrate and pitch into 20L, with lots of splashing and aeration
- let that go for 24 hours, till i saw the start of activity and a krausen start to form
- dropped 10L into 2 separate fermenters
- added 10L from the second cube to each fermenter

Now after 12 hours i have a 2 to 3 inch krausen on top of each batch, cling wrap bulging and beautiful US05 ready to be top cropped. The trub layer at this stage is quite compact too, as i effectively halved the amount of crap in there by doing a "double drop"

1 pack of yeast into 40L... and i dare say at pretty much the correct pitching rate... happy days :icon_cheers:


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## Bribie G (31/3/11)

Wow, it's spreading like a virus  

Pity you can't make it to the brewday Saturday, argon - I'm brewing today and droppin' on Saturday around 10 before I attend to the brew day stuff. 

Results: (copied from the post I just put up on Jim's Beer Kit forum)

****************************************

Sorry I've been in the hermit cave: brew is finally ready to drink. The fermentation went quite quickly - in the past I have gone for about 8 to 10 days with most yeasts and always get a bit paranoid when I read on UK brewers websites "primary fermentation is for three days then we rack to conditioning tanks for a further few days, cask and send out to the trade" etc. However on this occasion it was all over in about 6 days and I kegged / bottled straight out of primary. 

It's ended up as a really typical UK ESB with a lot of late Fuggles notes and well attenuated - nice colour and very clean flavour - *and chill hazed to buggery below 12 *

However I think that's to do with what happened after primary - I normally rack into a cube with gelatine, flush the headspace with CO2 and cold condition in my lager fridge which can hold 3 cubes - for around 10 days, then add Polyclar three days before kegging / bottling and all my beers are almost crystal clear going into the keg. So much so that after two or three days carbing at serving pressure they usually pour bright as a pub beer.

Anyway I have a brew day coming up on Saturday with a few guys attending and I was saving the cornie for that, so last Friday I took the top off the keg and dosed it with Polyclar and held it at -1 for a few days in my lagering fridge, and tried one yesterday - then about five more :beerbang: and it's not looking too bad now.







Advantages of the double drop so far, seem to be:


Shorter more active primary
Better attenuation which is probably due to the better oxygenation (there's a graph in the new Yeast book which predicts this)
Less yeast trub in primary with an extra bottle for me at the end.

I'm onto my second dropped brew now, kegged on Tuesday, and have a new temperature controlled fridge which enables me to crash down to -1 so looking forward to the results - kegging next Monday. This is a blonde ale so nothing to hide behind there.


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## unrealeous (31/3/11)

BribieG said:


> Wow, it's spreading like a virus


This thread inspired me to gave my latest wort an extra does of oxygen at 12 hours using the air pump - double dropping without cleanup  Fermentation really does seem to be cranking along but its only been 2 days.


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## Lecterfan (31/3/11)

I'm sold. I just top cropped a heap of 1469 from day 4 of a slow (18c) fermentation (incidentally this is the first one that has blown out the glad wrap...and this yeast was all top cropped from the previous batch).

The yeast is now under cooled pre-boiled water waiting to be pitched on Saturday arvo...and then cropped and double dropped on Sunday late morning (I must say I am keen to do it well within 24 hours also - 16hrs sounds like a good compromise...don't ask me why because I will only mindlessly reply with "cos BribieG said").

Thanks for the inspiration and whatnot :icon_chickcheers:


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## Wolfy (31/3/11)

Lecterfan said:


> ...don't ask me why because I will only mindlessly reply with "cos BribieG said"


Seems to be as good reason as any.

Maybe the idea will catch on and the next edition of the 'Yeast' book will include a second reference to a weird (or innovative) home brewer from Australia.
Since I only know of one "_homebrewers in Australia_" who is (in)famous for using "_2-liter plastic soda bottles_" for their beer-stuff.


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## Kai (31/3/11)

Malty Cultural said:


> Double dropping video:
> 
> Brakspear video link
> 
> Could be good fun to try, but you would want to get your timing right to avoid oxidation.



Saw that video a while back, it's good stuff to watch.

At home though, it just sounds like cleaning more fermenters to me. Though I guess it's the same for Brakspear.

Agree that just an extra shot of oxy /air or a bit of a paddle splash is good enough. And I find when I no-chill at home I can pour off the wort and leave most of the break behind in the cube.


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## Phoney (31/3/11)

phoneyhuh said:


> I tried it today with an IPA / London WY1028 Ale yeast.
> 
> With 150g of hops I just found a 1" thick layer of green sludge at the bottom of the top fermenter. So I tipped that down the sink, gave the top fermenter a rinse and then done a third (triple?) drop from the bottom vessel back into the original fermenter. (Only because that had the tempmate probe taped to the side)



Well 8 days have now past, at last night it seemed to have stopped at around ~1.20. <_< I've given it a rouse and bumped the temp up to 22C, hopefully in a few days it'll come down a few more points.

I dont know about this double dropping method.


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## argon (31/3/11)

Because i did the drop only after 24 hours the fermenter was pretty easy to clean. No caked on gunk. Much quicker than cleaning a fermenter after a couple of weeks.


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## Lecterfan (31/3/11)

Well, I still bottle so cleaning a fermenter is hardly what I'd consider an arduous task in my brewing routine h34r: 


hee hee


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## Wolfy (18/4/11)

I don't have a dedicated brew-space so try to be careful with sanitation type issues.
So here is my take on double dropping:





Had dinner out with the kids last night, so did the second drop about 20 hours after it was pitched. As you can see in the photo the yeast (BrewLab Ringwood dual-strain yeast) had already crawled up, filled all the dead-space in the fermentor and stuck itself to the lid before falling back down a bit. So I'd guess it was most active about 14-16 hours after pitching and that would have been the ideal time to Double Drop it.


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## BjornJ (28/4/11)

I pitched 2 vials of WLP001 in 47 litres of a dark mild today.
Plan to "double drop" it tomorrow morning, should be about 18-20 hours after pitching.

Hoping it will help with
-active, healthy fermentation
-cleaner yeast cake to harvest when ready to bottle


thanks
Bjorn


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## [email protected] (2/5/11)

I gave this a go in a partial sense this morning.

Only a 15L batch, English Mild using 1968.

So i got my sanitized 3L juice bottle, filled it near the top then shook the crap out of it and returned it to the fermentor. (at one stage i thought she might blow up) :blink: 

An hour later and there is still a nice layer of foam on top and the glad wrap is already bulging.
So hopefully this has reduced my lag time a bit and given my fermentation an extra kick start.

cheers


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## argon (7/5/11)

Did another double split drip this evening of a Landlord. Pitched a 1.5L starter of 1469 to 20L of wort last night. Was just about at high krausen tonight so dropped the 20L into 2 fermenters then added another 10L to each. 

Will top crop in the next day or 2 and put some aside. I reckon for every double batch I'll be double split dropping just to have the one pitch go twice as far.


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## Sunshine_Brewer (7/5/11)

argon said:


> Did another double split drip this evening of a Landlord. Pitched a 1.5L starter of 1469 to 20L of wort last night. Was just about at high krausen tonight so dropped the 20L into 2 fermenters then added another 10L to each.
> 
> Will top crop in the next day or 2 and put some aside. I reckon for every double batch I'll be double split dropping just to have the one pitch go twice as far.



How did the last "double split dropping" go? I find I get very active fermentation with good attenuation.


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## argon (7/5/11)

Sunshine_Brewer said:


> How did the last "double split dropping" go? I find I get very active fermentation with good attenuation.


I did it on a brown ale that was at 1061 now drinking at 1011 (I think) for an attenuation of 80% on US05. Like you've noted an active nice and clean fermentation.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (8/5/11)

when double dropping, is this a perfect time to put some yeast away in a couple of test tubes for a later date?


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## Wolfy (8/5/11)

_WALLACE_ said:


> when double dropping, is this a perfect time to put some yeast away in a couple of test tubes for a later date?


Not really, the idea is more to get all the yeast into the second fermentor and leave behind the break and trub material, and of course mix and aerate the fermenting beer as well.


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## argon (8/5/11)

Wolfy said:


> Not really, the idea is more to get all the yeast into the second fermentor and leave behind the break and trub material, and of course mix and aerate the fermenting beer as well.


 Yeah I just wait to top crop. Got up this morning and checked the fermenters. Both have now got a 2 inch krausen on top. Going off... Big bulge to the glad wrap. After only less than 12 hours. Will top crop tonight.


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## drsmurto (8/5/11)

Kai said:


> Saw that video a while back, it's good stuff to watch.
> 
> At home though, it just sounds like cleaning more fermenters to me. Though I guess it's the same for Brakspear.
> 
> Agree that just an extra shot of oxy /air or a bit of a paddle splash is good enough. And I find when I no-chill at home I can pour off the wort and leave most of the break behind in the cube.



I did wonder what the difference between 'double dropping' and simply using a whisk the day after pitching would be.


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## Bribie G (8/5/11)

An awful lot of the so called yeast cake is actually cold break and other detritus (remember my cb experiment) and I like to get the beer off that shyte as far as possible. That's another reason I prefer to top crop with the likes of Wy 1469 rather than use sediment.


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## mje1980 (10/5/11)

After drinking a brakspear bitter today and reading the "double dropped" on the bottle, i remembered this thread. Very interesting. I've never had a bitter under 5% take more than 5 days though, and since top cropping, i've been super happy with my beers ( i love top cropping, way better than getting slurry! ). Though if DD'ing might push some diacetyl, i'd be keen to try it. The brewing budget might have to splurge on a 2nd fermenter. Might try it next time by just aerating like buggery after 16 hours. 

I have found that top cropped beers seem to take off a lot faster, like a few hours. Saves the hassle of a starter too!!. 

Went to coledale cellars and scored some brakspear bitter, marstons oyster stout, Sam smith India ale. Never found them before. Also got london pride, and Sam smith nut brown, but i've had them before ( yummo ). 

Had the brakspear, the pride, and now sipping on the sam smith india ale. All nice beers!!.


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## mje1980 (19/3/13)

Long time since my last post, but im trying this today. Im mainly hoping to get a nice thick krausen to top crop, and to get the beer off some of the crud. If it adds some flavour, more the better. Will update. Using 1098 british ale.


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## Lecterfan (19/3/13)

I don't bother anymore - I either give it a second burst of oxygen or simply a damn good thrashing! It achieves the same thing overall (with the exception of getting it off the crud...but I don't have much crud in the fermenter that I didn't want there in the first place I guess haha).

I bought a large whisk-type thing from a cooking supplies store and when using brit yeasts I thrash them over the first 48 hours (after an initial burst of oxygen) just to ensure the yeast is roused.

I've seen first hand phone footage taken by a friend from a variety of Brit breweries that show the constant churning of the wort etc etc...

In my experience it makes a great improvement to both my attenuation and flavour profile of 1318, 1968, 1469. These are the main Brit yeasts I use. Onya mje, good luck with the brew!


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## mje1980 (19/3/13)

Thanks mate. Im in the process of setting up a pure O2 system, so might not need to do it soon. Im pretty happy with my UK ales, but this year im going to try to make them as good as i possibly can. The mild im fermenting now was boiled for 3 hours, to see if i can boost the malty goodness. Been brewing them for nearly 10 years, and been happy to stick to basic techniques so far, but love to hear any tips you or anyone else reading, may have ?


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## mje1980 (20/3/13)

A few hours after dropping I had lots of krausen, maybe 3". It isn't that thick tan mousse like good stuff I like though (you know, the good shit!! ), just standard foamy gunk. I'll see how it is tomorrow.


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## mje1980 (29/3/13)

Well, I never really got the thick mousse like yeast going. I can say I have no idea what conditions promote that yeast. I choose the yeast strains that are known top croppers, but I have no clue how to guarantee good healthy top croppable yeast. It seems to just be random for me. Might have to make a big starter next time first ?. I figured using a fresh smack pack in a 1.033 mild would be plenty of healthy yeast?. The longer I do this the less I know!!

I find once I get nice thick top cropped yeast, it's easy to maintain, it's just ensuring that first top crop.


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## Midnight Brew (21/12/13)

Gonna give this a crack tomorrow well not double dropping as such as it will be in the same FV but a dose of oxygen for a minute at around the 20 hour mark. Using 1318 and gonna keep cropping it and use it as a house strain for the next few beers. The beer is a midstrength amber and will be a throwback sessionable for new years eve.


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