# Easy Saison



## Killer Brew (12/1/15)

I am about to bottle my first brew and am looking for my next project. I really like the idea of a Saison to drink late summer but couldn't find a simple recipe in the data base. I did however find the following on the Cooper's website. I know it isn't particularly traditional but what do others think and what can I tweak to improve it (eg. different brand cans, different hops)? Also a hop schedule as the recipe I looked at added them all at once.

1.7kg Australian Pale Ale 
1.7kg Thomas Coopers Wheat Beer
500g Coopers Light Dry Malt
25g Saaz Hops
11g Belle Saison Yeast

Thanks, Killer


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## BrosysBrews (12/1/15)

Have a look at this http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category16.php#style16C

I believe a lot of people do a single hop addition, usually early in the boil. 25g of Sazz at 45min only gives 10IBU in 21lt, maybe do some more research re hop additions and have a look at the recipe db.


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## TheBigD (12/1/15)

I'm fermenting my second saison ATM I used a can of coopers original lager 1kg of DWME, a kilo of dex and saison yeast that's been sitting in the fridge for six months, I did a 10 min hop tea with 15g saaz and 15 grams of hallautau and will dry hop the same amount. These were all ingredient I wanted to use before they went out of date so not expecting much but I'm hoping it turns out better than my first saison which had citra and Amarillo which was a liitle harsh for my liking,


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## anthonyUK (12/1/15)

BrosysBrews said:


> Have a look at this http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category16.php#style16C
> 
> I believe a lot of people do a single hop addition, usually early in the boil. 25g of Sazz at 45min only gives 10IBU in 21lt, maybe do some more research re hop additions and have a look at the recipe db.


He's using two pre-hopped kits so 25g will probably be fine


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## Lecterfan (12/1/15)

Mate, it's all about the yeast...there should be no such thing as a 'difficult' saison if you are riding the saison vibe correctly. The flavours you are chasing come from the yeast - that must remain your focus. Enjoy!


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## manticle (12/1/15)

Coopers recipe looks fine for a kit saison recipe.
Pale malt, wheat, euro hops, saison yeast. Go for it as is, tweak next time if desired.


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## maaark (13/1/15)

Brew the Cooper's recipe! I brewed one up in December which I'm drinking at the moment. Super simple and packs a punch.


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## BrosysBrews (13/1/15)

anthonyUK said:


> He's using two pre-hopped kits so 25g will probably be fine


Sorry mate! Should of read post earlier! I was thinking un hopped malt! Ps this would be a really easy style to try with unhopped and doing your own additions


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## Alex.Tas (13/1/15)

loads of good feedback from the coopers recipe available on here. Like said above its all about the yeast. Saaz should work well too.


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## Stinger85 (13/1/15)

My only advice with the Coopers Saison recipe is to not brew too warm.
I know the Belle Sasion yeast can go as high as 28 degrees, but I would be inclined to keep it down around the 22 degree mark.
I brewed one as per the recipe, but at 26 degrees for a bit of an experiment, and the funk factor was _INTENSE! _Far too intense for me, and I love my Belgians....


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## peekaboo_jones (13/1/15)

Sounds great, I might have a crack too!


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## Killer Brew (13/1/15)

Thanks everyone for the advice. Went out and grabbed my ingredients today.

Ended up with:
1.7kg Blackrock East IPA (Nelson hops)
1.7kg Mangrove Jacks Bavarian Wheat (can't see which hops are used on the packaging)
500g LDME
25g Saaz Hops
11g Belle Saison Yeast

Haven't put it into the spreadsheet yet to work it all out but will before I start brewing (probably on Thurs).


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## Killer Brew (15/1/15)

I had my first go at putting this into the spreadsheet but there was no MJ's Bavarian Wheat so substituted Cooper's Wheat Beer in my calcs. Anyway the estimates came out as follows.

Brew Size: 21L
Original Gravity (OG): 1.059 (Good)
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (Just High)
Alcohol (ABV): 6.4% (Good)
Colour (EBC): 9.6 (Just Low)
Bitterness (IBU): 39.2 (High)

Proceed as planned or change needed?


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## indica86 (15/1/15)

Belle Saison will go lower than 1013 for sure. Much lower.


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## Killer Brew (15/1/15)

So I might end up with something closer to 7% ABV?


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## TheBigD (15/1/15)

Enter the yeast as 3711PC in the spreadsheet,I think its the only saison yeast in the list, this will give you a more likely attenuation and ABV

I may be talking out my ass but I wouldn't of gone an IPA can, the saison yeast will strip all the malty sweetness out and make it very dry and harsh, the strong IPA hop flavour and aroma might overpower most if not all of the saison flavour that the yeast will impart.


good luck though, hope Im wrong and it turns out a cracker


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## Killer Brew (15/1/15)

TheBigD said:


> Enter the yeast as 3711PC in the spreadsheet,I think its the only saison yeast in the list, this will give you a more likely attenuation and ABV
> 
> I may be talking out my ass but I wouldn't of gone an IPA can, the saison yeast will strip all the malty sweetness out and make it very dry and harsh, the strong IPA hop flavour and aroma might overpower most if not all of the saison flavour that the yeast will impart.
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks. I changed the yeast to 3711PC (from Wyeast 3724 which was listed as Belgian Saison). Not much changed except ABV lifted to 6.5%. Perhaps I should park the IPA for later and grab a can of Pale Ale? Or substitute with more LME and hop myself?


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## Killer Brew (19/1/15)

Brewed this one last week and is now sitting in the fermenter with airlock going nuts for over 72 hours so far! Smells awesome.

Ended up going with the following:
- Black Rock Pale Ale 1.7kg
- Mangrove Jack's Bavarian Wheat 1.7kg
- 500g LME
- Saaz 25g
- Belle Saison Yeat 11g

23L batch size. Saaz were infused in 80 degree water for 15 mins. I rehydrated the yeast which I hadn't done previously. OG was 1.052 (slightly lower than I had expected).


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## maaark (19/1/15)

Sounds about right mate. I did the same recipe (but with Coopers tins) in a 22L batch, OG was 1053, FG was 1007.


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## BrosysBrews (19/1/15)

Killer Brew said:


> I had my first go at putting this into the spreadsheet but there was no MJ's Bavarian Wheat so substituted Cooper's Wheat Beer in my calcs. Anyway the estimates came out as follows.
> 
> Brew Size: 21L
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.059 (Good)
> ...


If your really set on style you need to brew within the paramaters, that being said you can make amazing beer that is not 100% to style but still very enjoyable. I personally am more concerned with if I link drinking it that if it fits to a style as I am sure many are!


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## TheBigD (19/1/15)

Cold Crashing my saison now SG of 1.055 got down to FG1.005 6.7%ABV so looking forward to kegging this and putting the rest into half dozen flensburger swing tops I emptied last week.Im going to age these for 3 months or so.


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## Killer Brew (21/1/15)

After a week of going absolutely nuts in the fermenter I pulled down a tester today that went 1.011 making it already around 5.4% abv. And it is still going with the krausen having dropped out but continuing airlock activity. I like the taste but not sure what to compare it with. Went to Dan's yesterday and they don't stock any saisons so I'm not sure if what I'm tasting is true to style.


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## TheBigD (21/1/15)

Usually high ABV beers can do with a bit of time to smooth them out so Im being patient with this one, lucky im on a bit of a health kick of late and cut right back on my drinking to commercial beer on week ends only, ive been busy churning out brews to fill my 6 kegs, so stocks will be at an all time high and time will be on my side as far as aging goes.


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## Killer Brew (21/1/15)

TheBigD said:


> Usually high ABV beers can do with a bit of time to smooth them out so Im being patient with this one, lucky im on a bit of a health kick of late and cut right back on my drinking to commercial beer on week ends only, ive been busy churning out brews to fill my 6 kegs, so stocks will be at an all time high and time will be on my side as far as aging goes.


Wait. You cut down your drinking plus limited yourself to commercial beer? Is it Lent already??? 

Good for your ageing as you say. The hardest lesson for me to now has been patience. My first ever beer is carbing up in the bottle now and is due to be "born" this Friday! Once I have a rolling inventory I'm hoping the whole patience thing becomes a little easier!

Are you saying that taste now is a little hard to judge so not to worry until it has reached maturity?


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## Killer Brew (24/1/15)

This beer appears to have finalised at 1010. I had been expecting it to go lower based on my reading on this yeast. Has been there for 3 days now. Is there any chance it isn't done?


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## Alex.Tas (24/1/15)

Do a forced ferment test. That alone will tell you what your yeast can do to your wort.


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## Killer Brew (24/1/15)

Alex.Tas said:


> Do a forced ferment test. That alone will tell you what your yeast can do to your wort.


Sorry but i still have the L plates on. What does this involve?


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## stewy (24/1/15)

Killer Brew said:


> This beer appears to have finalised at 1010. I had been expecting it to go lower based on my reading on this yeast. Has been there for 3 days now. Is there any chance it isn't done?


I highly doubt it's finished at 1.010. I've used Belle Saison few times with extract recipes & it's always finished at 1.000. I ferment it at 26-28c. If I were you I would give the fermenter a gentle swirl for a minute & check again in a week


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## Killer Brew (24/1/15)

Thanks, was thinking to try that. Has been fermenting at 22-24 degrees.


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## Alex.Tas (24/1/15)

Google it for a better explanation but simply take a sample, roughly 1 cup and then add it to a sterile container. Shake the hell out of the sample as often as possible. Vent the pressure occasionally so it doesn't explode. Keep it in a warm spot, 20-30 degrees.

The idea is to get the yeast to ferment any left over fermentable sugar in the liquid. After a few days of constant shaking then recheck the gravity. The gravity you get will likely be the terminal gravity you can achieve with the current wort+yeast you have.
The elevated heat and the addition of air (dissolved into the wort by the constant shaking) will help the yeast attenuate to its max potential.

Once you know the potential of your wort+yeast you know what your fg shod be.

Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm writing on my phone. Google will give you a good run down of what the test is and why you should do it.


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## Killer Brew (29/1/15)

So I tried a 3 day forced ferment and just tested and is still at 1010. Fermenter test check shows the same gravity and has now for almost a week. The brew itself is 2 weeks old today. What I can't work out is there is still airlock activity (around a gurgle per minute) so was really confident it was still dropping as I believed this yeast should. Any thoughts?


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## MartinOC (29/1/15)

As you noted before, mate - PATIENCE!

Saisons can be frustrating as hell to ferment, but they're worth the wait.


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## Killer Brew (29/1/15)

Thanks. So you think it could still have a way to go. I don't rack to a secondary so should i be worried about leaving it on the slurry for much over 2 weeks?


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## skb (29/1/15)

My view is keep it simple stick it in the corner for 7 days the bugger the measure, keg and enjoy.... If you bottle this stately does not work so well as you may have beer bombs.


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## Charst (29/1/15)

Killer Brew said:


> Thanks. So you think it could still have a way to go. I don't rack to a secondary so should i be worried about leaving it on the slurry for much over 2 weeks?



Dont shit yourself about the beer sitting on the yeast, you can go another two weeks or more easy.
If you've done the forced ferment test correctly it sounds like its done but its not harming it letting the beer sit for a bit. 

Ive had a couple stall using the dupont strain and if I was impatient Id pitch some active wyeast 3711 french saison and let it finish the job.
If you dont want to do that, wait.


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## TheBigD (4/2/15)

I just popped one of my saison swing tops as I type. first impressions much better than my citrusy first saison attempt and totally different to a standard coopers OS lager which was used as a base, you can definitely taste what the yeast brings to the table this time. Its still young at only 6 days after kegging and bottling and its going down nicely so im looking forward to tasting again after some more conditioning.

Edit:
There's no noticeable Kit Twang as the can used was nearing its use by date and you cant really tell it over 6% which will be fun.


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## TheBigD (29/4/15)

Final thoughts! all though it has improved a lot and im drinking through it, I shant be making a saison again, two attempts and two average beers. I just prefer my other more session-able beers


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## manticle (4/5/15)

Try it again in the summer and try one at about 3.5 - 5% abv.


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## peekaboo_jones (7/5/15)

Yeah a more lighter Saison might work well.
Sorry to intrude... I'm thinking of making this more hoppy style:
Batch volume 21L
1x Thomas Coopers Pilsner can
400g dry wheat malt extract
300g dextrose
250g carapils
150g carawheat
Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast
25g Chinook @ 30 or 40 mins
15g Santinam @ 5 mins
10g Santinam @ flameout
10g Santinam dry hop for 24hrs prior to bottling


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