# Water Ph And Mashing



## nabs478 (30/11/08)

Hi,

I have just begun chekcing the pH of the mash and water to try and eradicate a problem I have been having using some pH 4.0-7.0 strips. I have found that it tells me that my tap water is about pH 5.2 or so, which is also roughly what I read for my mash. I would have expected that the water should be closer to 7, the mash to be between 5.2-5.5, but also that the mash pH should definately be lower than the water pH?

I have checked the strips with my saliva and it reads above 7, probably about 7.5 which is about right accoridng to various google sites. Fairly confused.

How reliable are these strips? Any other suggestions?

Also, is there any other problem with having a mash pH lower than 5.2 apart from a drop in efficiency? 

Thanks.


----------



## newguy (30/11/08)

Wow. I'd trust the strips. I've honestly never heard of tap water that acidic. I imagine that it is probably the cause of your problems. Just to confirm the test strips, buy a bottle of water and test that. I'd expect bottled water to have a pH of close to 7.

Someone more knowledgeable with kitchen chemistry will have to chime in with what you should add to your water to bring its pH up a bit without flavouring it. You could always mix your tap water with bottled water, but that's a pain and will get expensive in a hurry.


----------



## reviled (30/11/08)

Isnt 5.2 what you want? :huh:


----------



## newguy (30/11/08)

5.2 straight out of the tap is too low. You want 5.2 after the grains have been added. Since the grains themselves are slightly acidic, adding them to water that's already @ 5.2 isn't entirely right.

It's just.....weird. Like I said before, I've never heard of tap water with a pH that low. Since acids taste bitter, this does partly explain his issue, which was a lingering harsh bitterness that just wouldn't go away.

To confirm that it's your water, can you use bottled water for a batch? I have a feeling that your problem will go away.


----------



## reviled (30/11/08)

newguy said:


> 5.2 straight out of the tap is too low. You want 5.2 after the grains have been added. Since the grains themselves are slightly acidic, adding them to water that's already @ 5.2 isn't entirely right.
> 
> It's just.....weird. Like I said before, I've never heard of tap water with a pH that low. Since acids taste bitter, this does partly explain his issue, which was a lingering harsh bitterness that just wouldn't go away.
> 
> To confirm that it's your water, can you use bottled water for a batch? I have a feeling that your problem will go away.



So what should you be aiming for PH wise before adding grains? Does it depend on how much grain youre adding?

SWMBO got a PH kit for her fish tank, so im gonna test my water and find out... 

Good tip tho, using bottled water to see if that bitterness problem will go away, can prolly get about 20 litres for about 10bucks in those big 10 litre containers..


----------



## Stuster (30/11/08)

Knowing the pH before mashing is only a really small part of the story, reviled. You also need to know what chemicals are in there, particularly calcium and carbonate ions. They'll interact with the mash to cause the mash pH. It also depends on what colour grains you are using. Have a read of Palmer for more info.


----------



## reviled (30/11/08)

Stuster said:


> Knowing the pH before mashing is only a really small part of the story, reviled. You also need to know what chemicals are in there, particularly calcium and carbonate ions. They'll interact with the mash to cause the mash pH. It also depends on what colour grains you are using. Have a read of Palmer for more info.



 Damn, didnt really want to go down that path.. But I am stuck at work, so may as well get reading <_<


----------



## newguy (30/11/08)

It all depends on your water supply. When I first started brewing, the city where I lived had tap water with a pH of 8.9. I had to heavily acidify it to get it down into the proper range. I then moved to a place where the tap water was exactly 7. I didn't have to do anything to my strike water, but my sparge water still needed to be acidified slightly. Now I live in a city with a water pH of 7.8 and I acidify to the tune of 1ml acid per 10l water for both strike and sparge for light coloured beers as the amount of acid I use depends on my grain bill. If I'm using a lot of dark roasted grains, then I back off on the acid to about 0.5ml/10l since the dark roasted malts are more acidic that the pale malts.

The amount of acid I use is based on the mash's pH. I've never bothered measuring the pH of my water after I've acidified it, so I can't comment on my water's pH post treatment. All I know is that it's about 6-7 (probably closer to 6.5-7.0) prior to hitting the mash. 5.2 prior to the mash is very low.


----------



## matti (30/11/08)

It is easy to get muddled up in water chemistry.

Pip.
I doubt that your tap water is any lower the 7. Maybe there was something in the glass or did you just run the tap?
This strip are fairly good indicator on the pH range in most cases.

Find out if your water is hard or soft and what potential buffer there maybe in it and how to treat it.
Your local pool supplier can help you with supplying them water sample from you ahem... "Pool"!?
Then use STU's linky and by some salt and start playing.

Matti


----------



## nabs478 (30/11/08)

Thtose readings of between 5-5.5 (kind of difficult to get accurtae readings 5.2 or 5.3 when matching the colours), I had measured from tap water in my kitchen straight from the tap, the tap that feeds the HLT and water that had been heated int he HLT and let cool and sit for 24 hours, all of them came to betwene pH 5-5.5

Just took anoth reading from the mash, 80mins in, and it reads 5.4-5.5. THis to me is very strange. I am brewing with 11kg of pilsner malt and 20g caraaroma, but the pH should definately drop from the intital water pH and the end fo the mash. In this case it seems its risen by about 0.2-0.3

I live in Bellfield, Vic (suburb of Melbourne, just between Ivanhoe, Heidelberg and Preston), Is there anyone out there close by who can check their water pH?


----------



## Stuster (30/11/08)

That does sound incredibly low for tap water, Pip. Can't help you on your water exactly, but this info suggests it's not typical for Melbourne water.


----------



## nabs478 (30/11/08)

Stuster - very good article!


----------



## berapnopod (30/11/08)

The local council came out with a report recently that said the Townsville water has a pH of 7.05.
When I have measured it, it has always been between 5.5 and 5.9. The reason this all makes sense is because Townsville water is incredibly soft. ie. it does not take much to change the water from a pH of 7 to 5.5. ie. pH sometimes does not mean a hell of a lot (as Stuster pointed out).

The important thing is the mash pH. In the mash, the grains give you a substantial amount of buffering to bring the pH to the right range. You do have to tinker with the water pH occasionally, but usually the grains will take care of it for you, and I dare say that is what is happening here.

Berp.


----------

