# Why Has Home Brew Become So Popular?



## trustyrusty (10/2/11)

Hi AHB!!!



I was interested to know why homebrewing has become popular?

for the die hard fans that have been doing for a while it probably has not become popular for them.

But if you look around the web and I have seen a few stores open up recently..

I am considering do an article on it and was trying to get an ideal of why this might be for each person,

thanks

Rusty


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## petesbrew (10/2/11)

Is it popular? Or is it just the same theory where if you buy a blue car, you suddenly notice blue cars everywhere?


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## tones0606 (10/2/11)

just thinking the same thing <_< 


petesbrew said:


> Is it popular? Or is it just the same theory where if you buy a blue car, you suddenly notice blue cars everywhere?


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## Nick JD (10/2/11)

Buying a case of beer a week and drinking 3-4 stubbies a night costs about $2000 per year for 470 _odd _liters of beer.

Spending $2000 per year on ingredients to make homebrew will make between 2000 and 4000 liters. And it's far superior beer.

Basically it's between 4 and 8 times cheaper. A box of 24 stubbies equivalent (making Carlton Draft at home) costs $4.50. Yup, that's right - a whole carton of beer for the same price as a schooner.

If you use the finest ingredients, _in the world_ and make speciality beer from around the world ... it'll cost about $10 for a carton.

Don't publicise this awesome tax dodge!


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## DU99 (10/2/11)

these are the reason's i make home brew
1 Is price 
2 Is Quality
3 All the different styles
4 No preservatives,nothing artifical
5 you meet other people with the same interests(clubs)

this article give better idea's
http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/02/01/t...me-brewed-beer/


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## mwd (10/2/11)

I brew for fun and also it is so much cheaper than buying beer all the time. I still buy some beers but $50.00 for six Duvels is ridiculous as is $60++ for a carton of LCPA


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## chadjaja (10/2/11)

Because of the internet imo improving the quality of beer being made its lost its 'moonshine' label. Most of my friends put my beer in the craft category as thats the sort of beer it resembles the most. Its gone from just being marketed as 'cheap' to making quality beer. 

In the last year I've had 5 mates go AG from basically no kit experience whatsover and nearly all are planning or built home kegortators as well.


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## Quintrex (10/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> I was interested to know why homebrewing has become popular?



I'd say that as microbrewed beer has become more available and peoples tastes are being awakened to things other than "draught" they've realised that craft beer is more than a means to an end and can be bloody tasty. People are getting into the creativity of making your own beers. 

Plus I think there's a real diy culture that has blossomed over the past few years, especially with the vast amount of both information and suppliers that cater to diy hobbyists (Coffee roasting, cheese making... etc).

Some do it for the money saving, others do it for the taste/creative side.

Q


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## komodo (10/2/11)

I like shiney expencive things. 
Brewing gives me a chance to get shiney expencive things.

Its cheaper than the other shiney expencive things I play with - cars...


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## WarmBeer (10/2/11)

How many ways are there to skin a cat?

- Self satisfaction of making something from scratch with my own hands.
- Friendship. How many places, other than on the sportsground, can a 30-something bloke with kids make new friends? I've met a couple of good mates through this forum, case-swaps, and the brewing club I belong to.
- Gives me a legitimate excuse to get out of the house and into my garage for a couple of hours a week. A man needs his shed time.
- There's plenty of gadgets and bling you can buy and assemble.


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## Nick JD (10/2/11)

For someone who is interested in expanding their hobbies and inclined to look for alternative ways to create while saving money, the monthly ISP bill is without doubt money well spent.

I can't imaging how dumb we were without the internet - and I like to contribute to its vast brain, even if it is often ill-gotten knowledge and Chinese Whispers.

Lager at 27C everyone!


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## RobH (10/2/11)

I started home brewing because of the cost of good beer - I tasted some homebrew that a workmate had done & thought if he can do it that good, so can I. I still do it for that reason, but other reasons have developed over the past 18 months or so since I started... I enjoy it like a hobby - gives me an excuse for time-out from my day-to-day & other domestic activities, there are social advantages like meeting people on this forum & other home brewers in my local area ... there, that's two more reasons I can think of right now


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## Dave70 (10/2/11)

Because beer's that give aficionados wood in Australia are pretty much par for the course OS.
If you crave variety, you either pay through the nose for it - like $9 for a little o'l bottle of Chimay or you make it yourself.
I didn't realize how woeful the situation here was until we spent a month tooling around central Europe.
In the _Czech_ Republic I could get half a liter of Pilsner Urquell in an attractive glass for like $3.50 AUD anywhere all day and night for example. And that was like their default beer. 
Here, its like $19 for a six pack of .330ml bottles.
Anyway, what the hell is it with this .330ml bullshit? Teensy, tiny wittle bottles of beer - what a gyp...


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## Will88 (10/2/11)

The variety is what keeps me going. Whilst the variety in the market is certainly increasing it usually comes at a higher cost so it's much cheaper to simply sample a range of styles that are commercially brewed then have a crack at doing it yourself. Once you've learned the ropes of brewing it's pretty easy to make something just as good if not better than what you can buy off the shelf.


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## bum (10/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Hi AHB!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it? Not if you ask Coles Myer. 

It is just more visible now; not just fat blokes hunched over a fermenter, hiding from their wives in the shed - it has turned into fat blokes hunched over keyboards, hiding from their wives in the computer room. There's more info around for those who are interested to find it and greater access to more and better ingredients but I dunno if there's any reason to presume that means every man and his dog is doing it. No one I meet at social events has any clue about homebrewing and the old image of twangy, crap beer is still very much forward in most people's minds.


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## RobH (10/2/11)

bum said:


> ... and the old image of twangy, crap beer is still very much forward in most people's minds.



I know what you mean there ... recently offered a guest at my home a beer (getting to know some of the other parents from school), and then after he accepted I commented that I brewed it myself, his response was something like "oh... I had a rather interesting stout that a friend made once..." his tone of voice seemed to indicate that he wasn't so keen to try it now...
Anyway I served it to him in a "James Squire" glass (got a few when promo was on at local bottlo) & after taking a few mouthfuls he commented that if I had told him it was a James Squire beer, he would have believed me!


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## matho (10/2/11)

For me I like doing things myself and this hobby give me lots of things i can make/do myself. As a hobby it is really cheap, but that wasnt the reason i started homebrewing, before i started homebrewing i would have probably bought a case of beer once a month so beer wasn't a huge expense for me.
There is also great people to meet in this hobby and there isnt anything better than sharing a beer that you have made and having other people enjoy it.
I do think it is growing as a hobby but it still hasnt shaken its old image.

cheers matho


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## Barry (10/2/11)

I believe the the web has really reinforce the rapid expansion of interest. Specially so for younger brewers, lots in their 20's.


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## pmash (10/2/11)

Quintrex said:


> I'd say that as microbrewed beer has become more available and peoples tastes are being awakened to things other than "draught" they've realised that craft beer is more than a means to an end and can be bloody tasty. People are getting into the creativity of making your own beers.
> 
> Plus I think there's a real diy culture that has blossomed over the past few years, especially with the vast amount of both information and suppliers that cater to diy hobbyists (Coffee roasting, cheese making... etc).
> 
> ...


I would say you are dead right! I'm pretty sure Oz's first homebrewers just saw a can of Coopers Draught as a means to an end of cheap beer. And then, one day, somebody shoves a beer into your hand that tastes nothing like the swill you have been drinking for the last 30 years, just to get pissed on and cool down on a hot day, at a bbq, after work, with ya mates, at the footy, where-ever! I can taste something , fruit......or chocolate.....toffee.....what's that yummy smell. Hello...........

It just needs someone to introduce you to the wonderful , flavour filled world that lies beyond blandness that the corporate giants pass off as beer, it ain't! 

Cheers everyone,


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (10/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> For someone who is interested in expanding their hobbies




not to mention thier addictions.........  

Seroiusly though, started brewing with the father in law when the shit hit the financial fan a couple of years ago. Simple, old kit and kilo....sometimes 2 kilo hehehe.

Since then my tastes have refined a bit . i still find its cheaper to brew a batch of whatever than it is to buy a carton of something similiar. Better still you can brew a beer that really scratches that itch, (pardon the expression....  ) something like no-other beer on the planet.


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## shimple (10/2/11)

As said in other posts, we live in a society where Social media drives trends....

In saying that though, I reckon it has been popular for a long time....My uncles and their mates brew, they have been doing it for a long time, over 30 years.

For me, price has never come into it....One day tasted a mates homebrew, and was amazed at the flavour. Never tasted anything like it...Brewed my first batch the next day...8 years ago. I will never turn back....Without hobbies like this i wouldn't have the excuse for shed time too - a comment shared by many.


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## kenlock (10/2/11)

Why has it become so popular?

Not necessarily in this order:
1. Range and quality of ingredients that are now available - who knew grains, hops and different yeasts could be had 20 years ago
2. Draft systems. What a great feeling to be able to pour your own beer, and no more bottling.
3. Accessibility of information. Who here hasn't taken a quantum leap in terms of knowledge in a short time.
4. Accessibility of 'better' beer to expand the palate. Microbreweries/Brewpubs, Dan's, Beer Bars/Pubs, etc
5. Now a hobby, as opposed to a cheap way to get drunk, with related magazines, podcasts, vidcasts, etc.

My 2c :drinks:


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## nathanR (10/2/11)

I had a new baby and had to make cuts and did not want to stop drinking so ,I thaught it would be a good idea to make my own beer

now I make reasonably tasty beer 1 year later I find it hard to drink crap beer that I use to think was tasty 

The only bad thing is now i have to try every exotic beer and I spend hours a day thinking about what I want to make next


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## Midnight Brew (10/2/11)

Barry said:


> I believe the the web has really reinforce the rapid expansion of interest. Specially so for younger brewers, lots in their 20's.




SO true. I started with a Kit n Kilo as one of my dads mates taught me. Wasnt too pleased when I stumbled across AHB. Really blew the whole thing open for me. I was 16 when I started and needed a distraction from homework and did a bit of a search and bang! AHB! Such a good resource, I didnt even know I could buy hops or malt extract other then what was on the shelf at coles.


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## Rotgut (10/2/11)

Agree with all replies here. Don't think kit brewing is any more popular than it has been, but extract & AG have taken off due to availability of equipment, ingredients and information via the net.


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## InCider (10/2/11)

To answer you in short, I must say that I found like minded people who love inflatable sheep, GREAT beer and GREAT food.


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## proudscum (10/2/11)

Because in most cases its now made better.Its been a quick crawl since it was legalised in 1973
when you couldnt brew anything over1%.I actually met the man who put forward the new law when i lived in Canberra, whilst having a homebrew.


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## trustyrusty (10/2/11)

OMG !  

This is definetly the busy forum that I have ever visited! So there is definetly something happening.


I was wondering whether Coopers or one of those makes suddenly had or made a product that was so easy to make ( as it is now ) as apose to a few years ago when you had to make your own wort. 

I spoke to some today at coopers and they say that they had their first concentrated wort in a 1.7 kg can in 1984.

Why has this taken so long for shops to suddenly appear? What happened recently that has created this buzz?.

price - economy - easy making - keg systems?

thanks


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## kelbygreen (10/2/11)

for me and prob most of the people here it starts off with having to watch the pennies and the point of giving up drinking always comes up from SWMBO then you go but wait! I can cut that $70 a week down to $25 a week by doing it myself lol


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## scott_penno (10/2/11)

Significant other suggested that I worked too much and I should get a hobby. I've always been partial to a beer and walking through a large discount type store saw the Coopers starter kit and said I wouldn't mind having a crack at brewing as a hobby. And have never looked back... Although my wife has regretted suggesting I should get a hobby ever since...

sap.


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## thedragon (10/2/11)

I have a mate who home brews, but before I got in to it I just assumed that his stuff was crap. He'd drink home brew and I'd drink Carlton. How wrong and narrow minded I was.

For me it all started when we moved from paying rent to paying a mortgage... the transition to homebrew was purely economics. 

But now about 8 months on I'm not looking back. Yes, home brew is a quarter the price, but more importantly it's all about the taste.


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## fcmcg (10/2/11)

I started brewing , about 15 years ago.At age 23 , it was all about cheap beer . The homebrew shop was a bit dusty and cluttered.It seemed to be the hang out of a strange crew...and they spruiked the can of goo as being the bees kneez's.The shops existed. They just were a small "specialty shop"
All grain brewing was discussed , but it seemed to hard and access to ingredients was pretty average.
As i have grown , with the hobby ( to full AG) , the hobby has also exploded. 
I reckon it's because of....
world trade (who knows what %).People have access to alot of better beers.They want to make these beers.
Information.The internet...it's a real vibrant , sharing community, where pepole learn what others have done and do it themselves
Access to worldwide supplies be it either imported yeasts , grain or brew toys...all because of the internet.
A growing domestic craft brew scene...this also means the larger brewshops are supllying commercially and at retail level...again better access to everything
Conferences , Australian beer magazines, beer showcases...a growing awareness that there are other and better beers than vb or low carb...
And this brew scene is doing for beer what master chef did for food....
And most of all, people who do homebrew would like what they do. It's a craft...where you get to drink the results !

So i now posses a 3 vessel 40 litre brewery with march pump...heaps of serving kegs , silicon hoses ,and alll manner of brew gear lol
It's a craft. And i love it and most of all , i love sharing it with my friends.And because of brewing , i've also made some good friends.
Anyway..thats my humble opinion....
Cheers
Ferg


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## dougsbrew (10/2/11)

i'd have to say living costs would be sending many the home brew way - morgages, rents, rates through the roof, food prices, petrol, elec + gas bills, gillards bottomless bag of cash thrown all over the place. once people get started it opens the door to how can i make it better....... then your hooked, switch to AG, more equipment, better beer, satisfaction.


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## going down a hill (10/2/11)

Making beer is all sorts of great.

I threw a BBQ on the weekend and there is something to be said about making beers that you and your mates dig.

The other thing that will always make me happy is when you start adding all of that water to the wort in the fermenter; it really feels like you are sticking it to the man.

Cheers


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## bignath (11/2/11)

I started brewing like a lot of brewers, to save some money.

I had a friend who did it. My dad used to do it when i was real young. I just wanted to have some beer that cost stuff all to make.

Then i found this forum.

Then i started discovering different beers.

Then i wanted to have much more control over MY beer. I went from K&B to All Grain brewing - havent looked back since.

I can create beer that is better than you can buy off the shelf for $50 a box, and it costs me $15 for two boxes worth of beer. 
And it's better beer.

Went to a band meeting for my group last night. The singer brought along a sixer of Carlton Dry. I didn't have any beer with me as i was trying to be good and have a night off. I tasted it, and all i got was estery, thin cheap shit......He offered me a second and i politely declined.

I can make better (read: much better) beer than the usual suspects of megaswill bullshit, and at less than a quarter the price, and i love doing it. It's a hobby that completely fascinates me....

Why wouldn't you brew your own?????


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (11/2/11)

kelbygreen said:


> ...... I can cut that $70 a week down to $25 a week by doing it myself lol




What happens when that $25 goes back to $70??


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## Guysmiley54 (11/2/11)

_WALLACE_ said:


> What happens when that $25 goes back to $70??



A relevant point  

I'm sure many have started because it's cheap (or it can be cheap...) but how many here have spent a LOT of money to make cheap beer? Still in Hobart, it costs around $70 for a case of Little Creatures Pale Ale so it all depends on what you drink. Even if money were no issue, after tasting my last batch (Argons Little Fellas Pale Ale) I'm sure it got to my glass in a better condition than the last LCPA I bought.

In homes with educated brewers:

Beer is stored at correct temperatures
Beer is served within optimal shelf life
Beer isn't transported (shaken up, splashed in the bottle in the back of a truck etc) more than 10-30 metres often.

So yeah, the beer I make is cheaper than the beer that I like to buy (although brewing can be expensive!) but the better I get at the craft, the more I'm certain that beer doesn't travel well and that my beers are more enjoyable to drink.

YMMV


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## Strange Brew (11/2/11)

Dave70 said:


> Because beer's that give aficionados wood in Australia are pretty much par for the course OS.
> If you crave variety, you either pay through the nose for it - like $9 for a little o'l bottle of Chimay or you make it yourself.
> I didn't realize how woeful the situation here was until we spent a month tooling around central Europe.
> In the _Czech_ Republic I could get half a liter of Pilsner Urquell in an attractive glass for like $3.50 AUD anywhere all day and night for example. And that was like their default beer.
> ...



Too true. While I do like the Carltoohveebeex and the 20+ different labels its bottles under. I do occasionally like something with flavour and rather than pay $9 for a bottle I'd rather brew a carton of the stuff for the same price.


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## bum (11/2/11)

Lucky it is only us reading this thread because most of you guys are sending the craft back 20 years.


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## humulus (11/2/11)

Big Nath said:


> I started brewing like a lot of brewers, to save some money.
> 
> I had a friend who did it. My dad used to do it when i was real young. I just wanted to have some beer that cost stuff all to make.
> 
> ...


HERE HERE Big Nath!!!!price does not even come into it its all for the FLAVOUR! still got mates that prefer that megaswill bullshit oh well their loss!


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## Guysmiley54 (11/2/11)

bum said:


> Lucky it is only us reading this thread because most of you guys are sending the craft back 20 years.



How so big guy?


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## Sammus (11/2/11)

I can't understand how anyone can even kid them selves that theyre getting into a hobby because its cheap. hobbies by definition arent cheap. 

I started it because I like making stuff, in particular (like food) I like making, and can make better, stuff than you can buy pre-packaged. Sure money is part of it, I don't understand why or how anyone would do this with cheapness as the #1 motivator.


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## HoppingMad (11/2/11)

If the question is why has home brew become so popular, I wonder if it really has.

As Bum suggests, Coles have deleted Coopers Can kits from a number of their stores as they are failing to sell in large numbers.
For them placing more chips and nuts in this aisle is more profitable. So going by the assessment of one of the largest supermarket chains in the country you could say that Home Brew (in kits at least) is actually in decline. I have seen quite a few Brew on Premises and Home Brew Stores for sale of late. So is it growing? I really aren't so sure - and we're all quite biased here as we love homebrewing.

I think there was a resurgence of interest in Homebrewing during the Global Financial Crisis around 2006-2008. People were looking to save money and many of these people gravitated to this hobby. I have no solid figures to back this up, only that I know my local brew club grew quite substantially during this period.

I think that homebrew is still a niche hobby, I have a mate in a car club who has 800 members. Our club has 50 paid up and 10-15 hangers on that turn up occasionally. Is it more popular? Really don't know - but it is now more organised, and I guess it's no longer an underground pursuit. As the opening post suggests the stores selling Home Brew Product are now more visible than they were in the 80s and 90s, and those running them have a wider range of product and have got more professional. Part of this has to do with the success of Homebrewing in the US - the Australian scene has mirrored that in a smaller way and many of us source ingredients such as Amarillo & Cascade hops from there, and equipment such as pumps, mills, and kegging equipment from that part of the world.

Maybe our hobby as you suggest has grown in popularity slightly over the past decade, but it is a minnow compared to what has happened in the US. I was recently speaking to a homebrewer who was flying over to attend a festival in the midwest that featured 200 homebrewed 'wood aged' beers. In Australia we simply don't have the numbers to put on something like that.

But an interesting question. You'd need numbers and hard data to really know. I guess there's a lot of people in this forum.

Hopper.


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## trustyrusty (11/2/11)

HoppingMad said:


> If the question is why has home brew become so popular, I wonder if it really has.
> 
> As Bum suggests, Coles have deleted Coopers Can kits from a number of their stores as they are failing to sell in large numbers.
> For them placing more chips and nuts in this aisle is more profitable. So going by the assessment of one of the largest supermarket chains in the country you could say that Home Brew (in kits at least) is actually in decline. I have seen quite a few Brew on Premises and Home Brew Stores for sale of late. So is it growing? I really aren't so sure - and we're all quite biased here as we love homebrewing.
> ...



Coles are in the FMGC (fast moving goods category) - turn over - quick... ready made products like water and chips will sell quicker,

not sure why sold it in the beginning - better to go to brew shop...anyway

also companies have to pay for shelf space - may not be economical - we dont know all the facts....

more brew shops opening up...


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## HoppingMad (11/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Coles are in the FMGC (fast moving goods category) - turn over - quick... ready made products like water and chips will sell quicker,
> companies have to pay for shelf space - may not be economical - we dont know all the facts....



We know most of the facts if you check some of the threads here on it. Actually received a letter from them (as did many here) when we all wrote in to complain. Pretty much they've said it's not profitable, they're keeping it in select stores, but deleting it from most. Big W no longer carry Homebrew kits and gear in some Vic stores either - with QV Big W being one example. It's also gone from Bilo in other states. As you suggest, it's not a 'fast moving consumer good', ie. It's not popular.



> Good Afternoon,
> 
> Thank you for contacting us regarding the availability of Coopers Home Brew at Coles.
> 
> ...



Link to subject

Hopper.


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## bum (11/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> not sure why sold it in the beginning - better to go to brew shop...anyway


I beg to differ. The advice I'd get from the 15yo working at Coles who has never even had a beer let alone made one would be about as reliable the crap my LHBSs spew out. Heaps cheaper at Coles too, if you can put up with the limited range.



Trustyrusty said:


> also companies have to pay for shelf space - may not be economical - we dont know all the facts....


Yeah, we do. Both Coopers and Coles where very forthcoming with information at the time. It is all online if you wish to see it for yourself. [EDIT: or Hopper can do it for you. Nice work, bloke!]



Trustyrusty said:


> more brew shops opening up...


So you keep saying. Maybe there's a couple more. Maybe there's already extant LHBS starting to sell online as well as from their store-fronts. I know damned well that if there is a heap of good LHBS opening up they sure as hell aren't anywhere near me. A few crap ones will probably close down though as people slowly work out that the crap they've been told for so long is limiting them.


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## komodo (11/2/11)

I think the internet has been MASSIVE for many hobbies - not just home brewing.

Dad and I are into HK-T-G and HQ holdens. Previously finding information was limited to the information we collected from panel beaters, mechanics, make/model specific wreckers and car clubs. Occasionally there would be reliable information in publications but this was often dated by the time you read it (especially with regards to re-pro & short run parts) and sometimes you'd find a gem at a swapmeet. 
Along comes the popularity of the internet, forums and of course ebay.
Suddenly parts you'd been looking around for for years we're available at your finger tips. Information from a wide range of knowledgeable people - both "old school" and "new school" in their methods was available. You could make your own decisions based on a wealth of information. You find not only is there one or two ways to skin a cat - theres litterally hundreds. You have old school guys discussing ideas with the new school guys tranfering information and watching as new methods unfold in the public arena in what can really be described as "open source" ideas exchanging. 

Now having said all this - do I think there are more people today doing up cars than 15-20 years ago. No. Maybe a few but it would be inline with population growth more or less. Are there more people doing things better? - Id have to say yes. People are show offs. People make a modification to a car and post pics on the internerds. People view the modifications and discuss pros and cons and tend to be fairly brutal on "unsafe" practices. 

Now relate this to brewing. The information is readily available (palmers how to brew is a prime example along with this site and many others). Equipment is no longer only available to people who "know" about these things. Websites selling AG gear and shipping world wide you can buy things these days that you wouldnt have dreamed of previously. Think stirplates. How many brewers had a stir plate setup for yeast starters 10 years ago. I'd think 2/5ths of stuff all. Yet these days many guys who mash brew have stirplates and many harvest yeast and create yeast slants etc. This is because the information and the equipment is readily available.

Once again I dont think more people are home brewing - I think more of the people who are home brewing are now exposed to a wealth of information to help them expand their hobby at light speed. You can find out information these days about brewing in a few hours of internet research that previously would have taken quite litterally YEARS to find and understand. You have forums & websites where you can read about things and discuss them. You have youtube where you can watch a process happen to gain a better understanding then you can come back to the forums to discuss to further understand a process - all this can be done befor you give it a go your self so that you're more likely to have a successful first attempt - thus boosting confidence in your practices when you have a success.


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## MarkBastard (11/2/11)

In an ideal world there'd be more places to drink beer at, more pubs, smaller bars, restaurants with decent beer etc. In this ideal world beer would also be sold at a fair price, say $2 a schooner, and would be of a good quality and good variety.

Bottled beer from the bottle shop would be similar, with the best beers available for $30 a carton and the cheaper beers $15 a carton.

But it's not an ideal world, so I try and correct it myself via DIY so that the equation becomes fair again. Home brew isn't the only thing I do this with, I use VoIP for example to pay a fair price for phone calls because I was sick of being shafted by Telstra.

It just so happens that doing things myself has made it even better. I can do more cool things with VoIP than a regular home phone, I can have my own beer on tap at home with home brew, I can have Foxtel on my PC and stream it to different PC's around the house without paying for multi-room due to the way I've set my foxtel up (semi-legal). Same with downloading TV shows, I no longer have to wait for the FTA networks to pick up decent shows, only to have them play the episodes out of order or not put them on because of some shit tennis game, and then end up axing the show anyway. I instead download them and again I have much more flexibility with this, and no ads.

To me it's about being an empowered consumer as much as a fun hobby. The hobby part of it isn't always fun anyway. Cleaning isn't fun. It's the thinking about home brewing that is fun IMO, not throwing hops into a boiler or removing yeast cakes from fermenters.


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## WarmBeer (11/2/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> In an ideal world there'd be more places to drink beer at, more pubs, smaller bars, restaurants with decent beer etc. In this ideal world beer would also be sold at a fair price, say $2 a schooner, and would be of a good quality and good variety.
> 
> Bottled beer from the bottle shop would be similar, with the best beers available for $30 a carton and the cheaper beers $15 a carton.


This place you speak of, I think it's called Portland, Oregon: The beer price index


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## Bribie G (11/2/11)

With AG brewers I feel there are a lot of "Dark Brewers" out there, like the Dark Matter in the universe. 
For example at nearly every BABBs meeting in Brisbane a few new brewers turn up. The etiquette is that they stand up and do a short intro at the meeting and I've lost count of the guys who say "oh, been AG brewing for a couple of years now - mostly Munich Helles and the occasional Dortmunder....."  
They just keep coming out of the woodwork, usually not from this forum either. If it's like that in Brisbane I can imagine the underground brewing mob in Sydney or Melboure. My "other" club the Pine Rivers Underground Brewing Society is very active but rarely get to BABBs and only a handful are regulary on AHB - for example Starkesbier. Big brew day coming up and I reckon there would be 20 attending from a limited area of N Brisbane. Hence the "underground" in the name I guess  

Probably a better indication of the health of the "quality end" of the craft would come from Craftbrewer, GnG, Gryphon, MHB etc etc.


Edit: I believe that there are going to be substantial changes in the distribution of kits as well with Coopers having taken over Morgans (to the best of my knowledge) so interesting times ahead.


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## NickB (11/2/11)

Same as what Bribie is saying - Started a new job this week, and where I'm currently based, 3 of the 8 regulars plus myself brew in some capacity. I'm the only AG brewer, one was doing partials, one kits and bits, and one kits with good yeast.

They're out there, and it's really growing as far as I can see, especially with the quality of micro brewed beers doing the rounds these days; its much easier for people to try something other than the bland macro lagers.


Cheers


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (11/2/11)

Komodo said:


> I think the internet has been MASSIVE for many hobbies - not just home brewing.
> 
> Dad and I are into HK-T-G and HQ holdens. Previously finding information was limited to the information we collected from panel beaters, mechanics, make/model specific wreckers and car clubs. Occasionally there would be reliable information in publications but this was often dated by the time you read it (especially with regards to re-pro & short run parts) and sometimes you'd find a gem at a swapmeet.
> Along comes the popularity of the internet, forums and of course ebay.
> ...



Have to agree.

The amount of information has moved me from 10 years of K&K, 2 years of extract and 1yr of AG. The K&K stuff I did, such as adding spec grains, were based on 1. the limited range and 2. what made sense to me. But I can guarantee that it was as much fluke as anything - given I engaged in such dodgy practices as "roasting my own grain in the oven", not cracking grain, boiling grain at over 100 degrees because I didn't know what mashing was.

I've absorbed so much information from the internet, understood the fundamentals, linked up concepts and ideas together.

I originally started home brew because I was a poor uni student. I brew now for the enjoyment, the mental challenge (that isn't work, that is) and the quality of beer.

Goomba


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## bowie in space (11/2/11)

bum said:


> I meet at social events has any clue about homebrewing and the old image of twangy, crap beer is still very much forward in most people's minds.



This is true. I work in the mining industry and you try telling those cynical bastards that homebrew can be good. Everyone sniggers a little when I tell them the joys and great tastes you can get from homebrew. 

I brew because it's a fun and interesting hobby, I owe a lot to this site and it's contributors for the knowledge I've aquired, and despite my wage (and the fact that SWMBO has gone back to school and isn't working much) it makes sense financially and you get better beer.

Completely satisfying.

Bowie


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## ekul (14/2/11)

I reckon its grown because of all the available information. I did my first brew when i was 15 for my folks. They used to let me have the odd sip. Anyway the information that i had then was on the side of the can, which consisted of add sugar and keep at least 25C, wait till airlock finishes bubbling to bottle. I was fermenting at 30C in the back room that got sun all afternoon, needless to say the beer i made was terrible.

I stopped and started brewing many times from the age of 18 to reduce the cost of beer, most of my attempts only being drinkable because i had no other option (poor uni student). The information i had said ferment at least 25C, i even had a fish tank heater rigged up at one point to keep it that high! If i had money i would buy beer, or goon. A year ago when cleaning out my shed i found some homebrews from this time, these were absolutely disgusting.

I started again at the beginning of last year when money was tight and stumbled across this site, lo and behold EVERYTHING i was doing was wrong, so i decided to give it another crack. I found i could make a drinkable kit, and an even nicer extract brew. A few months after joining the site i was doing ag and making beer that tasted like beer, not backyard hooch.

Now i'm workling full time and could afford beer if i wanted to buy it, but i don't because the beer i can make is just as good (some of t anyway!) and gives me something to tinker with. The only time that i buy beer these days is to harvest some coopers yeast or if i want to try a new style of beer/hop to see if i'd like to make it. Or if i'm at a mates place and haven't brought any with me, but this is uncommon because now i just leave a carton at a mates (if they aren't heavy drinkers) so that there's alway a tasty homebrew in the fridge whereever i may be.

The other thing that i think has made homebrew more common is BIAB. If someone has only tasted terrible homebrew made from kits (i'm not saying knk is terrible) they are unlikely to go and invest a few hundred dollars worth of 3V equipment to spend all day making beer that, in their mind, may or may not turn out marginally better than the homebrew they've tasted. However with biab, the investment is small but the results are great. Once you've made your first ag batch i doubt anyone would go back to buying beer. I know i won't be.

Price obviously comes into it, but if you don't have the education to make good beer, then no amount of savings is going to make you drink it. In saying that though, if beer prices came down to the same as, or less than, making my own, i probably wouldn't bother anymore. I'd probably do the odd batch but i think if there wasn't the price saving in it for me 90% of the time i would be buying it.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (14/2/11)

ekul said:


> I reckon its grown because of all the available information. I did my first brew when i was 15 for my folks. They used to let me have the odd sip. Anyway the information that i had then was on the side of the can, which consisted of add sugar and keep at least 25C, wait till airlock finishes bubbling to bottle. I was fermenting at 30C in the back room that got sun all afternoon, needless to say the beer i made was terrible.
> 
> I stopped and started brewing many times from the age of 18 to reduce the cost of beer, most of my attempts only being drinkable because i had no other option (poor uni student). The information i had said ferment at least 25C, i even had a fish tank heater rigged up at one point to keep it that high! If i had money i would buy beer, or goon. A year ago when cleaning out my shed i found some homebrews from this time, these were absolutely disgusting.
> 
> ...



+1 - well thought out and articulated post.

Goomba


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## manticle (14/2/11)

If good beer was cheap, I'd still make it.


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## DanRayner (14/2/11)

manticle said:


> If good beer was cheap, I'd still make it.



If, when I started brewing, I lived in the US where there is an incredible variety of awesome beer that are also waaaaaay cheaper than any beer in Oz - I would probably not have begun brewing.

As it is, there just wasn't/isn't the diversity of good beer that is easily available in Australia for me to consider not brewing.


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## HoppingMad (14/2/11)

Komodo said:


> I think the internet has been MASSIVE for many hobbies - not just home brewing.



Very true Komodo. Talk to any old timer who's been home brewing for years and they marvel about how the internet's exchange of ideas has resulted in people getting skilled up in the craft very fast and building gear. It has certainly brought people and ideas together in a great way, and allowed them to source quickly. I suppose with greater access via the net you can wind up with a greater number of people joining the hobby. Just haven't seen any numbers on it - but would be interesting to know. 

As someone mentioned, the best people to ask would be a store like Grain & Grape or Craftbrewer as they would keep a database on how many brewers they cater for, and both sell their stuff Australia-wide.

Hopper.


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## Leigh (14/2/11)

Back in the late 1980's a homebrew shop appeared next to my school bus stop in the burbs of Melbourne...still there to this day! So they were around.


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## eamonnfoley (14/2/11)

All credit to the USA IMO. They have created a beer movement, in the face of the decline of the classic beer countries. Many homebrewers are inspired by this.

And then there is the cheap beer people, and will be more so as costs and govt regulation increase. Buggers will be trying to tax grain and hops next......


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## Frag_Dog (14/2/11)

DanRayner said:


> If, when I started brewing, I lived in the US where there is an incredible variety of awesome beer that are also waaaaaay cheaper than any beer in Oz - I would probably not have begun brewing.
> 
> As it is, there just wasn't/isn't the diversity of good beer that is easily available in Australia for me to consider not brewing.



Same. I started due to the cost, then found the taste side of things. Now I can't drink Extra Dry or Super Dry (use to be my favs).

IMHO the USA a better beer culture then Australia, at least as far as it relates to selling different types of beer. The fact that you can walk into any place that sells beer and pick up a micro beer makes drinking good beer so much easier. At my Bottle-O I'm lucky to find a Coopers. And if I make the journey to Uncle Dan's chances are I'll get some bottle thats been sitting in the sun for 2 weeks.

So I started brewing for financial reason, I now brew because I like the beer I make more then the beer I buy...


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## Gormand (14/2/11)

I started doing it as 2 other friends were doing it and it was a way of meaking cheap beer.... Then I got hooked.
Bought everything I needed for my first 2 batches (Including all my equiptment, bottles the works) and it cost me the same as if I had just bought 4 cartons of beer. And I made around 4 cartons of beer, every cost is immediatly offset by the savings over the cartons... although now I drink more 

Im planning to get a second tub soon (Mostly for bulk priming, and likely some dry hopping or other 2nd fermentations) and I also plan to start on AG just as soon as I can afford a decent 50l pot with tap and a decent burner to go with it.

I think a lot of it is as someone above said, its losing that negetive spin it had on it, places like U brew it help as well and once people look into it the cost would win many over.

Also i think all SWMBOs who want to get their guys to clean more should get them onto home brew


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## Nick JD (14/2/11)

Gormand said:


> Also i think all SWMBOs who want to get their guys to clean more should get them onto home brew



That reminds me of another aspect of homebrewing - you gain an intimate knowledge of spoilage microorganisms. When you see certain situations you think, "That's fine, it'll get killed by the heating, or the cleaning." Other times you think, "Ewww. That's fuckin rank - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole." 

Others just don't "see" microorganisms. 

I won't let the dishcloth that sits on my bench near ANYTHING. It's the worst source of infection in the kitchen. That and chopping boards. Wiping the floor with the dishcloth makes the floor dirty.

Homebrewing gives new meaning to the word "clean". Who out there hasn't thought - probably covered in bugs - I'll just give it a quick squirt of Starsan, that'll sort it out! Meat's lookign a bit green round the gills, STARSAN and ON THE GRILL!


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## Mayor of Mildura (14/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> That reminds me of another aspect of homebrewing - you gain an intimate knowledge of spoilage microorganisms. When you see certain situations you think, "That's fine, it'll get killed by the heating, or the cleaning." Other times you think, "Ewww. That's fuckin rank - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole."
> 
> Others just don't "see" microorganisms.
> 
> ...


Glad i'm not the only one. I thought i was a bit strange. 

And i reckon Home Brew is so popular because it is Rad!


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## Jimboley (14/2/11)

Everyday I have customers tell me how they went and bought a carton of specialty beer...let say JS Golden or Fat Yak, only to be completely disappointed and feel ripped off.
i could agree more, it's not just that the beer I make taste better then commercial swill, it's because the big brewers cut corners every chance they get to save on time & money, in turn make crap beers.

I can sum up home brewing popularity to the fact that there's not any good beer out there....because there is some good beer to be had. But if I had a dollar for every time someone said "I forked out for a carton of..... and it was shit...I'd rather drink XXXX" Id be a rich man.



At Christmas I bought a carton of beer....I know my bad but we had too many guest for even my supplies. 24x 330mL fat Yak for $60.... Tasted like crap. Whether its the transport across the Nullarbor, but it tasted skunked. It was bitter, but NO AROMA and poor taste...truckload of hops my arse!



I couldnt drink it at all. And I can drink VB or Cold or XXXX. I dont like these beers but I would of happily swapped a XXXX for a Fat Yak from that carton. I read a thread fat yak tastes like crap- Well I havent had a JS Golden with ANY hop aroma for a while and I dont know anyone that has for a long time. Even our beloved Little creatures keeps playing with there beers, one carton/keg is great, then the next is crap.



Commercial Breweries make a great product, market it as that. It gets a good reputation, so they keep the same label and fill it with utter swill.

Peoples perception that what they are holding and drinking as a premium beer, but its not.

So it tastes good to most people (perception IS reality) 

Hey I'm not complaining about there tricks, I'm glad they cut corners, pasteurize add chemicals & filter that shit because I'll get more business from people chancing the flavours they love but can buy anymore.


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## jonocarroll (14/2/11)

Jimboley said:


> the big brewers cut corners every chance they get to save on time & money, in turn make crap beers.


I think you'll find that there is very little 'cutting corners' involved in big brewing. In fact, it's mostly going the long way 'round.

The fact that the beer is crap is due to the demand that the beer be reproducibly and reliably drinkable 100% of the time. Throwing out a batch is where the money can be lost, and thus the saving in not doing so.



Jimboley said:


> So it tastes good to most people (perception IS reality)


Heh. I'm currently wearing a t-shirt with 'Deception is reality' on it, care of the International Spy Museum, Washington D.C.. I agree with this one more, particularly in the context you posit above.


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## brett mccluskey (14/2/11)

manticle said:


> If good beer was cheap, I'd still make it.


+1 I brew for a lot of reasons,but price is way down the list.I started brewing about 20 odd years ago ,after tasting a k+k CSA.I remember it as being an exceptionally good beer .This was around 1989/90,and the variety of grains,hops,etc from my local lhbs was thin, to say the least. Then some aussie brew mags like Australian Home Brewer and Ausbeer appeared and information started to flood in.I discovered Southern Home Brewing,now G+G.I started to partial mash,using liquid yeasts,which had just come to Oz,and that was a revelation in what i could brew myself,that was as good as i could buy.Forget the internet ,that didn't exist,for me it was books,magazines,and trial and error.Ive been AG for 15 or so years and if i put a monetary value on my brewing time,$p/h,it wouldn't be any cheaper than buying it.But i brew because i love the variety of beers i can make that NO brewery is making.Bittered how i like it,malt profile that i like ,flavour and aroma as I like it,and if i want to experiment i can,etc I'm not constrained by some knobhead accountant telling me that using X or Y ingredient isn't cost effective. If all the currently available beers in the world suddenly cost $1 per litre ,i'd still be brewing my own beer :beer:


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## argon (14/2/11)

toper1 said:


> If all the currently available beers in the world suddenly cost $1 per litre ,i'd still be brewing my own beer :beer:




I'd like to think that... but hell, if could get Westvleteren 12 or Pliny the Elder for $1 a litre i reckon i'd probably brew a little less :lol:


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## warra48 (14/2/11)

Because it's fun.


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## Cocko (14/2/11)

warra48 said:


> Because it's fun.



And you end up with beer.

win win.


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## brett mccluskey (14/2/11)

argon said:


> I'd like to think that... but hell, if could get Westvleteren 12 or Pliny the Elder for $1 a litre i reckon i'd probably brew a little less :lol:


I'd be brewing a little less too,in that style .. :beer: but i'd still be brewing..


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## Guysmiley54 (14/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> That reminds me of another aspect of homebrewing - you gain an intimate knowledge of spoilage microorganisms. When you see certain situations you think, "That's fine, it'll get killed by the heating, or the cleaning." Other times you think, "Ewww. That's fuckin rank - wouldn't touch it with a barge pole."
> 
> Others just don't "see" microorganisms.
> 
> ...



I own a cafe/restaurant and I have some lazy staff in the kitchen... Let's hope they never find out about Starsan!!!


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## Yob (14/2/11)

warra48 said:


> Because it's fun.



absolutly... it's not a $$ thing for me, not that Im wealthy by any stretch.. but cheaper beer _*is a byproduct*_ of the best hobby Ive ever had.. :lol: 

as well as all the learnin.. the triumph after failures.. the people.. and at the end of the day... it's the :icon_drool2: from your own hand

:icon_cheers:


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## [email protected] (14/2/11)

I wanted to see what it was like to make my own beer, pretty simple.
Growing up i had always seen the kits in Kmart ect and always thought if thats how beer is made why doesnt everyone do it?

After doing my first kit, follwing the instructions given to me by LHBS, the results were not pleasing.
I turned to the internet...ahh google, found my way here.

Next brew was a partial, then AG. Have not looked back.
Anyway i needed a hobby, so making my own AG beers is it.
I am inspired by it, the whole process, the thinking and planning that goes into making a good brew.

Exercises the creative part of the brain as well as the logical and analytical side of things.

Its a hobby that offers so much , always something to learn.


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## Linz (19/2/11)

the Kiwis have published this...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/467...stubbies-a-year

interesting bit is at the bottom...

ALCOHOL AROUND THE WORLD

*28.8 per cent of alcohol consumed around the world is homemade.* so it is popular??

the rest of it seems to be a scare campaign...

*New Zealand's own problems, including an unregulated alcohol environment that was like "the wild west"*....gees, then Australia's must be draconian with the overt regulation and complex taxation...


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