# First Try at Malting Barley, advice needed re hot/fast germination



## sandybits (18/3/14)

Out of curiosity I have attempted malting some barley.

I did a moisture test (100c for 3 hours to dry out a sample, weighing before and after)
I steeped and air rested to get a 42% moisture content.
However I only germinated for 2 days. Some of the grains had the acrospire busting out and a few I opened looked about 90%+. So I moved them to the dehydrator. 

After doing some more research I think my problem was germinating at ambient, which has been mid 20's even nearly 30c. I believe this caused the fast germination.

From the best I can dig up this will result in poor quality malt. But I couldn't ascertain how it would be poor.

I am seeking advice from any maltsters on here on how it will be poor and if there is anything I can do to improve the quality, either during the rest of the malting process or whilst brewing?

I found this http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2007.tb00279.x/pdf which talks about improving poor quality barley and under-modified malt using high temperature and high humidity treatment (HH-HHT) before kilning.

As I've already started kilning I can't really try what is suggested above. However, I've got my next batch steeping and I might split it, HT-HHT one half and mash them side by side to see what happens. I also plan on germinating this next batch in my dodgy fridge which sits at about 15c.

Any advice would be tops. Although, it's not really the end of the world. It 1$1.40 worth of grain and I'm sure it will turn into beer, just not sure what sort...


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## Not For Horses (18/3/14)

Hey mate, sounds like way too high for germination! Around 16 to 18 is ideal.

From my understanding, the high temperature encourages greater production of free amino nitrogen and greatly reduces your extract potential. It has also been my experience that modification is much more varied which you already have observed.

Reduction in extract potential is not good, obviously you get less beer for your money.

The increased FAN production is also detrimental. FAN goes through to your wort where it can be converted by yeast into, among other things, fusels which are not very pleasant as you probably well know.

The High temperature treatments you are referring to are along the same lines as making Munich. The higher temperature and humidity conditions (I didn't read that link but I assume that it would be around 50ish with high humidity for the first step?) Allows the conversion of FAN into amino acids which, along with proteins, are utilised in the next high heat phase (110ish degrees?) to produce melanoidins via the Maillard reaction. This produces a lot of the flavours people call 'toasty' or 'malty'.

Back to your current batch though, if you have dried it and kilned it at a temperature that will preserve the enzymes (anywhere from 70 to 110 depending on style) you will make beer. Good beer too. Maybe keep that ferment to low to limit fusel production.


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## sandybits (18/3/14)

Hey Not For Horses,
Thank you for the input. 

I can live with poor efficiency on my first malting attempt. It has only cost me $1.40 in barley and a couple of bucks for electricity, I guess. However, undrinkable beer at the end doesn't sound very good. 

I will do as you say and keep the fermentation controlled to try and keep fusel alcohol production down. The brewing fridge only gets as low as 15c so that should do the trick. Also I will leave it plenty of time for secondary fermentation, like 3 weeks. Maybe I should even rack it to a secondary vessel as Palmer thinks staying on the trub too long can cause excess fusels http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html. I was planning on no chilling in the kettle overnight so when I transfer to the fermenter it will also hopefully remove some of this problem. 

The batch is still kilning. I just checked it and its at 17% moisture (under 24 hours kilning thus far). I am now madly searching for a schedule on which to ramp up the temps. I am aiming for 3.5%.

Plus the next batch is currently steeping. Ready to try again with a controlled germination.

Thanks again, NFH.


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## Not For Horses (18/3/14)

No worries. Rest assured you will not make undrinkable beer. You will make quite good beer.

On the temp profile, get it below 10% moisture then take it up to 85c for 4 hours.
You can do this in the oven if you keep the door ajar and measure the temp externally.


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## sandybits (18/3/14)

Great, thanks. I was hoping you would say 4 hours at 70c as that's what my dehydrator goes to 

Edit: Do you check the moisture level before each malting? I've just checked my weight and its lighter than my beginning dry weight which I guess is fine as I've lost some weight to root loss and stuff falling on the floor as I transfer it around. That or I've stuffed up my calcs somewhere. 

Now I don't know how to weigh to get my final moisture level right. Any ideas or just trust the process times? 

Edit 2: One last then I'll leave you alone: how long do you "mellow" the malt? I've read a couple of weeks, so I'm thinking I'll start with 2 at least. And I'm thinking something breathable like a pillow case or maybe one of those coffee bags with the little one way vent on it?


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## Not For Horses (18/3/14)

70c for 4 hours will be ok. its a bit low but it may work. Pils malt is kilned around that temp.

I don't check the moisture before each malting, I just trust that it will be close enough.

I dry for a few days at ambient before kilning so it is well and truly at 10% moisture by the time I get round to kilning it.
You're using a dehydrator though so I'm not sure how long that will take. I would leave it for a bit longer to make sure it gets down to around 10%.

I put my malt back in the raw barley sacks that it came in and it is usually a couple weeks at least before I get around to brewing with it.

Any of the suggestions you have made there should work fine.


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## sandybits (18/3/14)

I ended up putting it in a big roasting pan and its in the oven hovering around 78-81c. I've got a meat thermometer in the pain in the grain and am shooting it with my cheap ebay IR thermometer. Another 3 pans the same size would be nice to make the best use of the electricity, mind you. Could take one out then crank up the temp, then the next, etc. 

That's interesting about drying at ambient. Mind you my ambient is probably at bit higher than yours in Tassie. It was a bit of a PITA trying to put it all in the dehydrator as its one of those little round ones with big holes in the bottom. 

Do you have a fan running whilst drying at ambient? I was looking at making up some bottomless boxes lined with mesh (I don't think flyscreen is food grade so I'll have to find something else). These could be stacked on top of each other and have some sort of fan sitting underneath. And if that could be done at ambient temps that would be very cool. What would be even cooler would be if the drying boxes could withstand the high temps of the oven. You could get a great little malt run going. 

Thanks again. 

BTW, I realised I just made myself a liar as I said I would leave you alone


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## Not For Horses (18/3/14)

Yeah a fan works well when drying at ambient temps.
If you have the floor space, lay it out in a thin layer ~2cm thick and set the fan on it and let it do its thing.
About 2 square meters should be enough for 10-15kgs per batch.

The bottomless boxes sound perfect.
If you used stainless flywire you could use them in the oven.


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## mash head (20/3/14)

I was unaware that the malt needed kilning to preserve it. I thought it only needed kilning to ad different flavour profiles.
I was thinking that base malts were only just dried out to kill of the germ and that was it. I was thinking about making a large solar dryer for the drying bit with glass above and perf sheet for the grain to sit on. On a hot day it would probably get to the 70-80 inside but probably not good enough. At least my oven is adjustable from rising dough temp up.


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## Not For Horses (20/3/14)

mash head said:


> I was unaware that the malt needed kilning to preserve it. I thought it only needed kilning to ad different flavour profiles.
> I was thinking that base malts were only just dried out to kill of the germ and that was it. I was thinking about making a large solar dryer for the drying bit with glass above and perf sheet for the grain to sit on. On a hot day it would probably get to the 70-80 inside but probably not good enough. At least my oven is adjustable from rising dough temp up.


Its kinda both really.
Green malt will not make very nice beer. Tried it once and that was enough. It was grassy and green tasting. Plus the rest of the bag developed this powdery dusty mould as a result of the higher moisture content.
You can get green malt down to around 10% moisture with just a dryer but it needs that extra kilning to get it down below 5%

The problem I can see with the solar dryer is the humidity. You would probably just be heating the grain but not removing any moisture. If you could find a way to dry the air out, with venting perhaps, it might work well.

Or you could use the solar energy to heat a recirculating water system then suck dry air through the hot water coil then into your malt.

I'd be wary of the greenhouse option though because if you had it sitting in a high humidity environment with little airflow and it was, say, 40c, you'd end up with acid malt pretty quickly. I know because I have done this. Not in a greenhouse but still.

Lastly, and I can't stress this enough, make sure you use a good thermometer to monitor the oven. The dial probably isn't worth a pinch of shit at those temperatures.


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## sandybits (21/3/14)

I was reading http://www.mosquitobytes.com/Den/Beer/Hmbrewing/Malt.html in which they state, 

"...50 kernels of malt are shaken into a pan of water. After 10 minutes the number of horizontally floating kernels is counted; undermodified kernels either sink or float vertically in the water. At the very minimum at least 35 or 70% of the kernels should float."
On my second batch, which has been germinating at about 15c for the last 4 days, I did a smaller test of just 10 grains. All sunk and stayed "sunken." I'm not sure what the confidence level is by reducing the test from 50 to 10 but I'd say that this test shows that some more modification is necessary.


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## mash head (21/3/14)

_Thanks. I am probably going to grow some more barley this winter so will be trying to malt some my self if the crop goes well. My oven is digital and goes up in 5 deg increments but I would check with an actual thermometer._


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## Not For Horses (21/3/14)

Not sure how reliable that test is...
Just cut a few grains open with a scalpel. You can see acrospire growth with the naked eye or better yet with a magnifying glass.


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## sandybits (22/3/14)

mash head said:


> _Thanks. I am probably going to grow some more barley this winter so will be trying to malt some my self if the crop goes well. My oven is digital and goes up in 5 deg increments but I would check with an actual thermometer._


Haven't looked at the grow side (yet). Do you need a thresher? 


Not For Horses said:


> Not sure how reliable that test is...
> Just cut a few grains open with a scalpel. You can see acrospire growth with the naked eye or better yet with a magnifying glass.


It was the first time I'd read that one anywhere. The grains I tested have been germinating for 4 days and look about right. I would have expected some "floaters" as per the test. I need to do a bit more work on inspecting the inside of the grain to get familiar with what I'm looking for.


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## Not For Horses (22/3/14)

I've probably got some photos on my other computer, I'll see if I can find them later.
You'll need to slice a few kernals lengthwise. The acrospire will be growing up the inside of the husk next to some white starchy looking stuff. Starch. Go figure. The acrospire will be a fairly pale yellow-green colour kinda hard to actually pick out without a magnifying glass.


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## mash head (22/3/14)

Hey sandy. I farm broad acres so yes I do have a harvester. I remember a thread a while back about someone trying to grow barley at home, but for the price you can buy unmalted grain for I would think it not worth the effort. If you were around at harvest time you could pick up a ton for about $200.


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## mash head (22/3/14)

Have you tried mashing any of this grain yet Sandy? Given enough time even poorly modified grain will be converted in the mash as long as both the amylase enzymes are present.


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## sandybits (22/3/14)

Not For Horses said:


> I've probably got some photos on my other computer, I'll see if I can find them later.
> You'll need to slice a few kernals lengthwise. The acrospire will be growing up the inside of the husk next to some white starchy looking stuff. Starch. Go figure. The acrospire will be a fairly pale yellow-green colour kinda hard to actually pick out without a magnifying glass.


I bought a pair of really cheap jewellers magnifying glasses a while back (a weak moment on ebay from memory) and did cut open some grain. And now you've explained what I'm looking for I did see that. I'll slice open a few more to see how the non-floating batch is doing. 



mash head said:


> Hey sandy. I farm broad acres so yes I do have a harvester. I remember a thread a while back about someone trying to grow barley at home, but for the price you can buy unmalted grain for I would think it not worth the effort. If you were around at harvest time you could pick up a ton for about $200.


Fair enough. I wonder how much weight my little box trailer could take?



mash head said:


> Have you tried mashing any of this grain yet Sandy? Given enough time even poorly modified grain will be converted in the mash as long as both the amylase enzymes are present.


Not yet. I read you need to let it "mellow" for a few weeks. I suppose I should be trying some now (to get a base line for testing the "mellowing" theory) and then letting another batch mellow for the required time. So a long mash could make up for under modified malt. Are you thinking 90 minutes?


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## hoppy2B (23/3/14)

I believe the acrospire needs to be 1 and 1/2 times the length of the kernel in order for the malt to contain sufficient enzymes for satisfactory brewing.

Encyclopaedia Britannica states that it can take about 10 days to germinate barley in malting. Modern processes have reduced this time down to 5 days. Small amounts of gibberellic acid are used to speed germination.

I recommend you steep your barley overnight and then drain, steep again the second night in order for the grain to take up sufficient moisture and then the following day drain and spread on a concrete floor, about 4 inches thick should be a good depth. You will need to shovel the grain over every few hours. This is meant to prevent the build up of heat. 

You can probably spread the grain thinner as it becomes dry to the touch eliminating the need for constant turning. The grain will dry naturally over the following days as it germinates after which it can be kilned. You may need to spray and turn it if you want a higher level of modification.


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## sandybits (23/3/14)

Thanks hoppy2B.

I just checked my grain after 5 days at ~15c and they are about 3/4 or a bit more of the length of the kernel. So I might be on track for closer to 10 days germination, as per your post, this time.

Unfortunately, my best concrete floor is also accessed by the dog and chickens so the result could be very interesting 

15c might be a little bit cool but I believe that it gives a more consistent germination across all the grain. 

I think the fridge should be providing a good level of humidity for the germination. There are still droplets on the plastic covering the grain. I forgot to turn them on Saturday so they got a bit matted together. No musty smell though.

BTW, can anyone tell me why we need to let the grains "mellow" after they have been malted? I am scouring the web for references but can't find any good reason, thus far.


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## Not For Horses (25/3/14)

Hoppy, Is this a tried and tested method or stuff you've read?

1.5 times the length of the kernel would be overmodified and would start to reduce the extract potential of the grain. 3/4 to 1x the length of the kernel will be fully modified and I'd be starting to dry it now.

The concrete floor is probably overkill for most home brewers. 2 of those 50 odd litre plastic tubs from Kmart/BigW/wherever will get you 12-15kgs of malt at a time.

Turning the malt twice as a day is important to dissipate heat as well as prevent the rootlets from matting as you've already seen. You can turn it more often if you want but unless you're sitting around all day watching barley grow, you probably won't do this. And it won't really matter too much.
As an interesting side note though, it was once common among some polish maltsters (and maybe others, I'm not sure) to leave the malt untouched as it was germinating and then use a machine to tear apart the whole mess prior to kilning. Not sure why they did this mind you.

The resting thing, well I'm not really sure on that one. My malt usually sits around for a couple of weeks before I brew but then several times I've used malt that was kilned the day before brew day and not noticed anything out of the ordinary.


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## sandybits (25/3/14)

Thank again Not For Horses. I was having trouble finding references for the resting or mellowing idea. This weekend my first batch will be close to 2 weeks mellowing, anyway, so I might give it a try. I'm also getting a small order of pale malt delivered from the LHBS so I'll be able to compare them, side by side.


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## hoppy2B (25/3/14)

Resting it for a period after kilning is for flavour development.

On the kilning side of it I have read that the temp is gradually brought up to the 115 degrees C over several days. I've also found a reference that suggested the gradual raising of temp was necessary to prevent destroying enzymes. Raising the temp too quickly causes temperature shock to the enzymes. Raising the temperature slowly over several days avoids the shock.

My own experience with malting has been that its best to keep the grain dry on the surface to avoid mould developing. The grain will swell and absorb any water sprayed on it and having it on concrete which is porous helps to prevent it becoming too moist. Turning it over also helps with this.

@ Not For Horses. Its a combination of what I've read and observed from my own maltings. I'm not 100% sure on the acrospire length but the ten days talked about in the Encyclopaedia would correlate with an acrospire 1 and 1/2 times the length of the kernel. I will need to do some more reading before my next malting to check it. 
One way to effectively use undermodified malt is to add some green undried malt to the mash. Its a method I commonly use to get a good conversion. Green malt can be put through the blender with a little water. You only need 10%.


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## Not For Horses (25/3/14)

115c is pretty high for a kilning temp. Munich 2 maybe but not for ale malt.
The malt I do at home gets 85c for 4-5 hours once it has been dried at ambient.
Not really a gradual increase either, probably takes about 15 minutes for the air to heat up then maybe an hour or so for the grain to heat up.
I was talking to some maltsters in the US a few weeks ago and their green malt, once germination is complete, goes from the floor to the bag in around 24 hours.


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## sandybits (3/4/14)

Well my second batch is done. I left it in the fridge (15c) for about 8 days in the end. It got a little matted and there might have been a bit of white fluff on some of the roots (mould?). However I threw it in the dehydrator for 1 day at 35c then another day around 50c. It sat for another day before I got around to putting it in the oven. It got about 5 hours in the end between 65c to 85c (up then down, then back up again...), although it was mostly in the 80c's.

A major difference I can already tell between this one and my first is that if you eat a kernel it actually tastes malty. Whereas the other one doesn't really have a malty taste. I will make a guess and say the first batch is undermodified due to the inconsistent germination (too hot). 

So the question now is whether to do a protein rest with the allegedly undermodified batch, brew with it and see what happens or put it back in the oven and toast it up to another colour level?


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## Not For Horses (3/4/14)

Second batch sounds much better.

I'd say toast the first batch and use it for colour and flavour with your second batch as base malt.

180c for 15 minutes will get you something light and biscuity. 30 minutes will get something like amber malt. 60 minutes will be like a brown malt.
210c for 60 minutes will get you a medium dark malt (~300L) with nice coffee notes to it (assuming it is undermodified). Keep going from there up to about 2 hours for black malt.


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## sandybits (3/4/14)

Cheers, Not For Horse. I will toast it up. I can brew with the second batch and will make an educated guess that the first batch would most likely under perform it. 

Thanks for the times and temps. I wonder if an acid malt can be undermodified? Off to Google...


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## Not For Horses (4/4/14)

If you want a natural acid malt (commercial malt is simply acidified with the addition of lactic acid) you'll need to start with wet green malt and good temperature control.

Put some freshly germinated green malt in a vac seal bag, give it a spray with a bit of water to moisten it and seal it up. If you don't have a vac sealer then use a large ziplock back and squeeze all the air out. This is important because the reaction is anaerobic.

Put the bag in a warm environment. 35c is about an ideal temp for the lactobacillus to get to work. Leave it at that temp for 2 days.

After two days it will be looking kinda brown and slimy and nasty but this is normal. Have a taste. It should be funky and sour tasting. If it's not very acidic tasting then seal it up again and leave it for another day.

Now just dry and kiln the malt as normal. You need to kiln it to neutralise the bacteria and preserve the lactic acid profile.


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