# Nsw Xmas In July 2006 Case Consumption



## Doc

This is the topic to place your reviews of the beers in the NSW Xmas in July Case.
*DON'T* put your recipes in here. Instead post them into the RecipesDB and provide a link. We were hoping to have the Rating section of the RecipeDB up, but JasonY (bless his heart) rebuild the app from the ground up and this functionality hasn't been rebuilt yet.

Here are the beers and the details with info on when to consume. 

Beers,
Doc

Duff - Firkin Bolter - Dunkelweizen - WLP300, bottled (not yet) so will need a couple of weeks to carbonate 
Gough - Dry Irish Stout - Wyeast 1968, brewed 14-6-06, will DEFINITELY need time to carbonate!!!
Stuster - Belgian Dubbel, Wyeast 1388, bottled 17/05/06, may improve with age
Doc - Irish Red, WLP002, Bottled using CPBF. Perfect to drink now
PoMo - English Bitter, WLP023, Bottled 16/6/06
Berapnopod - Dry Stout - WLP004 (Guinness yeast) - bottled 17/06 - needs a couple of weeks at ale temps
n00ch - Dark Mild, Irish Ale WY1084, botteld 16/6/06. Might want to leave it for 2 weeks if possible.
Kungy - American IPA, Safale US-56, bottled 28/5/06, A fair bit of sediment-probably best to leave at least a week to settle, fairly good drinking now but of course the longer the better taste and slightly more carbonation
Weizguy - Chocolate Porter (W1318 - bottled 27/6) & Berliner Weisse (bonus beer - Wyeast German Ale/ lacto culture, bottled 28/6) Leave the Berliner at least until the end of the month. These beers are meant to age well up to 3 years (2 chances!) in the fridge. No cheese this time...just tart lactic reminiscent of natural yoghurt.
The porter has become a little cloudy with carbonation/secondary ferment, and a little manky with it. I'm suggesting that, at 5.7% alc, and to allow the yeast to settle it would be best at mid-late August. And don't forget to pirate the London ale III yeast.
Berto - Oatmeal Stout, Safale S04. Not yet bottled
Stephen -Special Bitter. Wyeast 1028. Bottled 12 Mar 06 (Yeah, I got in early)
Linz - Grumpy Scottish Stag,WY1728, Bottled 28/5/2006
Barry - Robust Porter, WLP004 Irish, bottled 29/04/06, drink now+
Trent - English IPA, WY1028 Bottled on 7/5/2006 Beware of hop trub
T.D - Boston Lager, W34/70, Bottled on 28/05/2006, it is ready to drink now
Shmick - ESB, S-04, bottled 10/6/06. Give it a week but drink it young.
DrewCarey82 - Pilsener, kit yeast, Best 2 weeks after drop off.
Nifty - Californian Common – WLP810, Brewed 01/05/06, Bottled 04/06/06. It’s good to go
Josh - Pilsener Saflager 34/70, Bottled 20/04/06, give a week settling in fridge
KoNG - English Bitter, S-04 , Bottled 18/6/06, should be ready a week after pickup
Thommo - Californian Common - US56 (cheating, I know) - Brewed 12/6/06 - Drink same time as Goughs!!!
Beer Slayer - APA bottled 22/6/06 US56 needs at least 2-3 weeks
Pint of Lager - Dortmunder export, brewed 19/5/06 bottled 14/6/06, if possible, it needs some quiet time in your fridge
Stickler - Pale Ale (partial) US-56, bottled 16/05/06
Keith the Beer Guy - Keith's Bastard Chocolate Porter, US56; Brewed 11/06/06, Bottled 27/06/06; Drink middle of July if you're brave enough!
homebrewworld.com - Irish Red Ale, S-O4, Bottled 22/6/06 needs some carb time at least. cheers
Chilled - Australian Larger, Wyeast 2007...Bottled 20/06 best left till mid July


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## Doc

Looking at what order to drink it, this is a very quick and crude list of the early drinking beers.

Beers,
Doc

Stephen -Special Bitter. Wyeast 1028. Bottled 12 Mar 06 (Yeah, I got in early)
Nifty - Californian Common WLP810, Brewed 01/05/06, Bottled 04/06/06. Its good to go
Doc - Irish Red, WLP002, Bottled using CPBF. Perfect to drink now
Linz - Grumpy Scottish Stag,WY1728, Bottled 28/5/2006
Barry - Robust Porter, WLP004 Irish, bottled 29/04/06, drink now+
Shmick - ESB, S-04, bottled 10/6/06. Give it a week but drink it young.
T.D - Boston Lager, W34/70, Bottled on 28/05/2006, it is ready to drink now
Stuster - Belgian Dubbel, Wyeast 1388, bottled 17/05/06, may improve with age
Kungy - American IPA, Safale US-56, bottled 28/5/06, A fair bit of sediment-probably best to leave at least a week to settle, fairly good drinking now but of course the longer the better taste and slightly more carbonation
Trent - English IPA, WY1028 Bottled on 7/5/2006 Beware of hop trub
PoMo - English Bitter, WLP023, Bottled 16/6/06
Berapnopod - Dry Stout - WLP004 (Guinness yeast) - bottled 17/06 - needs a couple of weeks at ale temps
KoNG - English Bitter, S-04 , Bottled 18/6/06, should be ready a week after pickup
Beer Slayer - APA bottled 22/6/06 US56 needs at least 2-3 weeks
n00ch - Dark Mild, Irish Ale WY1084, botteld 16/6/06. Might want to leave it for 2 weeks if possible.
Thommo - Californian Common - US56 (cheating, I know) - Brewed 12/6/06 - Drink same time as Goughs!!!


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## kungy

Hi Everyone, 

I'm bored tonight so I may as well start it off. 

Here is the link to my recipe Crazy Horse Pale Ale.

Here are some other things that I couldn't put in the recipe. Its an American IPA, with the 0 minute hops being dry hopped, the OG was actually 1064 (a tad low for my liking), the FG a pretty low 1008, and the IBU calculations are considerably different to what Promash tells me.

Hope you enjoy it.

Will


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## Stickler

I had already posted my bottling date a little while ago but someone must have started copying and posting an earlier list. Anyhow mine should be ready to go.

Cheers and thanks to all for organising and can't wait to get into 'em. 



Edit: Updated into Master List.


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## Thommo

Doc said:


> Looking at what order to drink it, this is a very quick and crude list of the early drinking beers.
> 
> Beers,
> Doc
> 
> Stephen -Special Bitter. Wyeast 1028. Bottled 12 Mar 06 (Yeah, I got in early)
> Nifty - Californian Common WLP810, Brewed 01/05/06, Bottled 04/06/06. Its good to go
> Doc - Irish Red, WLP002, Bottled using CPBF. Perfect to drink now
> Linz - Grumpy Scottish Stag,WY1728, Bottled 28/5/2006
> Barry - Robust Porter, WLP004 Irish, bottled 29/04/06, drink now+
> Shmick - ESB, S-04, bottled 10/6/06. Give it a week but drink it young.
> T.D - Boston Lager, W34/70, Bottled on 28/05/2006, it is ready to drink now
> Stuster - Belgian Dubbel, Wyeast 1388, bottled 17/05/06, may improve with age
> Kungy - American IPA, Safale US-56, bottled 28/5/06, A fair bit of sediment-probably best to leave at least a week to settle, fairly good drinking now but of course the longer the better taste and slightly more carbonation
> Trent - English IPA, WY1028 Bottled on 7/5/2006 Beware of hop trub
> PoMo - English Bitter, WLP023, Bottled 16/6/06
> Berapnopod - Dry Stout - WLP004 (Guinness yeast) - bottled 17/06 - needs a couple of weeks at ale temps
> KoNG - English Bitter, S-04 , Bottled 18/6/06, should be ready a week after pickup
> Beer Slayer - APA bottled 22/6/06 US56 needs at least 2-3 weeks
> n00ch - Dark Mild, Irish Ale WY1084, botteld 16/6/06. Might want to leave it for 2 weeks if possible.
> Thommo - Californian Common - US56 (cheating, I know) - Brewed 12/6/06 - Drink same time as Goughs!!!



Please don't drink mine straight away. Brewed 12/6/06, bottled 29th!!!! Will be flat for a few weeks yet. I've got some stubbies left over and will test in two weeks and keep you posted.

Thommo.


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## Gough

Thommo said:


> Please don't drink mine straight away. Brewed 12/6/06, bottled 29th!!!! Will be flat for a few weeks yet. I've got some stubbies left over and will test in two weeks and keep you posted.
> 
> Thommo.



Likewise with mine. Bottled 30-6-06. Give it at least 2 weeks, preferably 3 or 4 weeks from the 30th.  

Shawn.


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## PostModern

I tasted one of mine last night and think it needs quite a bit more time. I could still taste priming sugar, so unless Linz's garage is warmer than my brew cupboard, it won't be ready for another week at least. It also had a slightly bitter astringency to it, so there's a potential dud warning attached, also (weird coz it tasted pretty good at bottling time). I have a few more test bottles left over, so I'll post back here with comments in another week


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## pint of lager

Drank a bottle of mine last night, it is ready to go after being allowed to settle for a few days in your fridge. Am pleased that there is a keg full lagering on the veranda. Going to be great drinking when the weather warms up.


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## Doc

Mine is all good to go.
The recipe is here

Will take the previous posts pointing out the details of consumption and add them to the first post and remove those sections of the posts to keep it all tidy.

Beers,
Doc


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## shmick

Quittin time ESB

Recipe here

Couldn't adjust the FG on the recipe page. :blink: 
Should be 1.010, ABV 5.7%.


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## Barry

Good Day
Just picked mine up so thanks to all concerned. Have the recipe attached to each bottle but it is also in the recipe section (recipe and comments were for a previous but identical batch).
I will try Doc's Red tonight, can't wait.


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## homebrewworld.com

Yep,
I have picked my batch up too !
Im going for Docs beer tonight also.
Thanks Linz/ BeerSlayer and all the guys who did the hard yards with transport etc.
Its bloody nice to look at all those beers and think ' hmm ' what do i feel like tonight ? !  
Thanks all participants,
Cheers x 28 =  

HBW


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## Doc

*Nifty's California Common*
First beer outta the blocks for me.
Pours well, with a small dense white head, that unfortunately dissapates down too a very fine layer of foam.
Initially tasted it too cold, so allowed it to warm up for further eval.
Slightly cloudy ala Coopers PA, but from memory that is to style. Deep straw in colour. Nice maltyness to the beer with subdued silky flavours coming through with some late bitterness. Recipe isn't in the database yet, but the smooth bittering flavours remind me of beers I've brewed with hersbrucker or perle late in the boil.

Really enjoyable Nifty.

Beers,
Doc


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## homebrewworld.com

My verdict on Doc Irish Ale



Docs :	Irish Red Ale

Great colour, deep red hue very clear & clean appearance.
Thick foamy off white head.
Carbonation medium.
Malty profile, medium body
Aroma of pepper? 
Slighlty asrtringent
Very impressive appearance, although not a smooth to drink as I would like.
Slight astringenetcy detected, and slight oxidation (cardboard)
Very nice to drink, as per style.
Nice beer indeed.


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## nifty

Cheers Doc

Recipe here -Common Californian

I'm really looking forward to picking up the beers and getting stuck into them. :chug: 

nifty


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## Duff

Nifty, Kungy, Josh and Berto,

Let me know when you are ready for pick up.

Cheers.


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## Barry

Good Day
Had the pleasure of having Doc's Red last night. Had it before eating, during dinner (braised steak and onions) and after dinner. Very impressed. The following are my impressions.

Appearance: Good long lasting white head, amber with red highlights with sound depth of colour, low/ medium carbonation with fine bead, clear/brilliant. 3/3

Aroma: Substantial toffee and coffee aroma, very clean, solid depth of malt, verging on a lolly aroma but very enticing. 10/12

Flavour: Sweet caramel malt with a depth of toffee, low bitterness, sweet finish but with some balancing dryness from the crystal malts. Very rich malt, verges on cloying but falls on the right side and makes it very moreish. 16/20

Body: Medium carbonation, medium/full mouthfeel, very smooth, to style. 4.5/5

Overall: A most rich caramel/toffee version of the style but it stays enticing from first sniff to last sip. 8.5/10

Total: 42/50 IMHO

A bloody hard act to follow.


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## KoNG

My recipe is here >> KoNG's HaCkNey BiTteR

I received my cases today thanx to Gerard M.... big effort..!
also kudos goes to Weizguy, who sent me some Wit yeast after a sly comment i made earlier.. another big effort.
and of course Duff and Mrs Duff and also Doc and the other couriers.

:super: 

KoNG


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## shmick

In case anybody missed it in the other thread

All of the Newcastle entries are at MHB's ready for pick-up.

n00ch, Gough, Weizguy, Stephen, Keith, Trent, Chilled

Enjoy :chug:


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## n00ch

Thanks shmick. I'll pick them up this arvo.


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## Gough

shmick said:


> In case anybody missed it in the other thread
> 
> All of the Newcastle entries are at MHB's ready for pick-up.
> 
> n00ch, Gough, Weizguy, Stephen, Keith, Trent, Chilled
> 
> Enjoy :chug:



Thanks Schmick, I had missed it. I'll head down to pick mine up this arvo. I'll try and remember Brent's beer for you as well this time  

THanks again mate. I'll try and restrain myself from working my way through the lot in front of the footy tonight :lol: 

Go the Blues!!

Shawn.


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## Doc

*Warning*
Take care when opening Linz's contribution. The one is my case is *highly* carbonated. :excl: 

Doc


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## Stuster

Doc said:


> *Warning*
> Take care when opening Linz's contribution. The one is my case is *highly* carbonated. :excl:
> 
> Doc



Thanks for the heads up, Doc. Mine was the same. This one should be put in the fridge *NOW*. Pour with care.


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## T.D.

Hi all,

I am in Canada at the moment but I have been advised that my cases have been dropped off, so thanks to everybody that had a part in the process. I'm dying of anticipation over here now that some of the reviews are starting to come in. If it wasn't for the great range of microbrews here in Canada, I would be on the next plane back!   

I obviously don't have my recipe on hand, but I'll post it when I get back in late July. My beer was carbonated properly (IMO) when I left so drink away people, and I hope you enjoy it.

Cheers, ehhh?  

TD


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## Gough

Stuster said:


> Doc said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Warning*
> Take care when opening Linz's contribution. The one is my case is *highly* carbonated. :excl:
> 
> Doc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up, Doc. Mine was the same. This one should be put in the fridge *NOW*. Pour with care.
Click to expand...


Likewise, thanks for the headsup fellas. That one went stright to the fridge.

I tried Doc's Irish Red on Wednesday night and broadly agree with Barry's review. I enjoyed the beer a lot - my bottle didn't exhibit any oxidation probs or astringency. Very Xtally but balanced just short of cloying. A good winter warmer. Well brewed Doc  

Shawn.


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## KoNG

Hi gang,
i did this at chrissy for the case, so i thought i'd chuck it on here for all to use at July.
i throw it on the fridge to make going through the case easier and a bit more organised.
i tried to put most of the beers in some form of order in terms of bottling date/drinkabiltity.
and i also tried to... if possible group a few styles together if the bottling dates allowed.
you'll see some stouts/porters together and a group of english bitters.

anyway... its attached, let me know if i stuffed anything up.
Last year it made a great convo piece for visitors, i was quite surprised how many people commented on what a great idea it was! a few people asked if they could jump in by supplying a case of commercial longnecks... :lol: :blink: 

View attachment AHB_Xmas_July_Case.doc


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## shmick

Tried Doc's Irish Red last night - very impressive.

Did I detect a little water treatment tweaking towards the end of the bottle?
A slight salty/carbonate type aftertaste which it seems I'm a little susceptable to.
Maybe I'm just used to the sludge that comes out of the taps in our area these days.

Thoroughly enjoyed it Doc. Top marks..


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## Doc

Looks good KoNG. Have printed and will be going on the shed fridge.

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc

shmick said:


> Tried Doc's Irish Red last night - very impressive.
> 
> Did I detect a little water treatment tweaking towards the end of the bottle?
> A slight salty/carbonate type aftertaste which it seems I'm a little susceptable to.
> Maybe I'm just used to the sludge that comes out of the taps in our area these days.
> 
> Thoroughly enjoyed it Doc. Top marks..



Cheers Shmick, Gough, HBW, Barry.

No water treatment other than going through a sediment filter then a carbon filter.
Unfortunately I have none left, so can't re-taste myself  

Doc


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## KoNG

Doc said:


> Looks good KoNG. Have printed and will be going on the shed fridge.
> 
> Beers,
> Doc



I couldnt find any info for 'Josh'...?
am i looking at an old version...?
if you have more details josh it would be appreciated..

Cheers
KoNG


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## Stuster

Josh's info was in there somewhere, Kong. Anyway, here it is.

Josh - Pilsener, Saflager 34/70, Bottled 20/04/06, give a week settling in fridge


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## KoNG

cheers Stuster....
I'll amend the original Word doc for future users.
sorry Josh, couldnt find it.


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## Keith the Beer Guy

Let me add my thanks to all the peoples involved in the organisation of the case swap, your efforts have been, and are being much appreciated.

I shared *TD's Boston Lager  * last night with a couple of family members and jotted down my thoughts. Rather than judge to syle I have simply noted my own observations about the beer:

Appearance: The beer had a great looking white fluffy head that disappeared as I worked my way down the glass. There was a slight haze present which lessened as the beer warmed up - chill haze is the obvious guess.

Aroma: I found the beer had an enjoyable, gentle spicy aroma.

Flavour: Initially I tasted a distinct hop bite - that matched the aroma, as the beer warmed, my palate was telling me that the bite was now coming from the carbonation. A very dry finish with low bitterness that matched the body of the beer very well.

Mouthfeel: Light to medium-light bodied beer with medium carbonation. There was a very slight oiliness that rolled over my tongue.

Overall: I enjoyed the beer after it warmed just a smidge, and found it very drinkable and very morish. A very well made beer, the balance between malt and bitterness makes for excellent drinkability. Two thumbs up and thanks for the fine drop.

Happy brewing,

Keith


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## stephen

Actually tried my 'Stephen's Special Bitter' last night. I'm not going to comment on it suffice to say that it is abit overcarbonated. Will benefit from sitting in the fridge for a couple of days to help tone the head, but it will foam a bit: It's not a gusher.

As for tasting comments - I'll wait for others to comment.

Cheers

Steve

PS Abig thanks to all who helped with this. I dips me lid to yas!


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## Josh

Nifty dropped my case around today. Can't wait to get into these beers.

I didn't label my beer apart from the "JB" on the bottle top.
Recipe


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## Weizguy

Kong,

It's probably a good idea to revisit the start of this thread, and see the amendments for my brews too. You may want to update the list for my beerz too.

I'll be sampling my weisse in about 3 weeks (spare stubbies) to see if I'll recommend it for carbonation/drinkability.

BTW, Kong, did U get the Passionate Sarcasm?

Beerz
Seth out


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## KoNG

Weiz....
i'll update the list when i get a chance.
i definately go the passionate brew... i thanked you lots somewhere else.. but i'll do it again.. hahaha.. thanx heaps. much appreciated.


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## stephen

Doc said:


> shmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried Doc's Irish Red last night - very impressive.
> 
> Did I detect a little water treatment tweaking towards the end of the bottle?
> A slight salty/carbonate type aftertaste which it seems I'm a little susceptable to.
> Maybe I'm just used to the sludge that comes out of the taps in our area these days.
> 
> Thoroughly enjoyed it Doc. Top marks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Shmick, Gough, HBW, Barry.
> 
> No water treatment other than going through a sediment filter then a carbon filter.
> Unfortunately I have none left, so can't re-taste myself
> 
> Doc
Click to expand...

Doc

Tried your Irish red tinoght and as stated in previous posts, AWESOME!!! I wont do the BJCP thing as the quality of your beer does not warrent it - In my books 50/50.

Steve


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## Doc

stephen said:


> Doc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried Doc's Irish Red last night - very impressive.
> 
> Did I detect a little water treatment tweaking towards the end of the bottle?
> A slight salty/carbonate type aftertaste which it seems I'm a little susceptable to.
> Maybe I'm just used to the sludge that comes out of the taps in our area these days.
> 
> Thoroughly enjoyed it Doc. Top marks..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Shmick, Gough, HBW, Barry.
> 
> No water treatment other than going through a sediment filter then a carbon filter.
> Unfortunately I have none left, so can't re-taste myself
> 
> Doc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doc
> 
> Tried your Irish red tinoght and as stated in previous posts, AWESOME!!! I wont do the BJCP thing as the quality of your beer does not warrent it - In my books 50/50.
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...


Thanks Stephen. I enjoyed the few pints I got from the brew too. The brew has evolved over six brews to the point I'm very happy with it. 
Will be brewing again soon.

Doc


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## stephen

Doc

If that is the recipe in the recipe tab of this forum then I think I will be brewing this soon also!


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## Doc

stephen said:


> Doc
> 
> If that is the recipe in the recipe tab of this forum then I think I will be brewing this soon also!



It is indeed. Key ingredients are CaraRed and Slovian Styrian Goldings.

Doc


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## berapnopod

First of all, I'd just like to say a BIIIIG thanks to all thoe that made the xmas/july case asuccess - thanks guys!!

I have been out of town for a couple of weeks so haven't managed to keep up with all the talk of the case, but it doesn't really matter 'cos I have my case(s) with me now 

I did notice that some reported Linz's offering as overcarbonated, so I will try that one first (opening it away from the laptop) h34r: 

As for last time, I am going to try and keep my comments informative and helpful - the sort of thing I also aim for in a competition. If you don't think I am being helpful or informative, or you think I left something out, then please let me know!


Linz's "Grumpy Scot Stag"

I understand this is some sort of Scottish style ale, but dunno which category it is closest to.

Aroma: Harsh hop/yeast character, which might be from stirred up sediment (see Appearance). This is the dominant aroma. Little malt in the arom and no detectable smokey aroma.

Appearance: When opening, this one gushed. Not over the roof, but only managed to get half a glass of beer with half a glass of foam. The beer is very cloudy, which could be because the sediment was stirred up when gushing, but also looks like yeast so perhaps this one has done some significant re-fermentation in the bottle? Colour is dark brown/red.

Flavour: Foamy throughout. Initially a typical malty flavour as expected for this style. Quickly develops to a bitter/dry beer from the extract. Hops definitely in the background (where they should be). Esters hard to assess but is either low, as expected or more typical of an English ale. Finish is litghtly bitter, tangy (extract) and bubbly. Just a hint of roasted grains in the end there.

Mouthfeel: medium/light body suggests it is more attenuated than should be for this style. Very highly carbonated which unfortunately affects the beer at many stages - it tends to mask out any subtle flavours as well as messing around with the apparent bitterness. Some alcohol warmth suggests this one is maybe 5%+?

Overall: Looks like re-fermentation in the bottle has taken its toll on this one. Partly because the CO2 masks other characters and tends to dominate, but also because it has mixed the sediment and extra yeast into the beer giving it a harsh flavour. I can tell that the recipe of malts/hops underneath appears to be reasonably sound as far as a Scottish beer goes - clear crystal sweetness and caramelly flavour, hops just enough to avoid cloying. I don't get any smoke character which is common in this style but not always there. Could be masked though. I suggest for next time just be patient and wait for the thing to ferment out. Yes, I know I am probably the last person who should be giving such advice, since most of my beers turn out too sweet.


Berp.


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## Barry

Good Day
Tried Linz's Scottish Stag Ale a few days ago over two nights. Put it in the fridge so it was quite cold when opened. It had high carbonation but did not gush and poured well with a large but not excessive head. I allowed it warm up a bit before drinking. Next night the carbonation was lower and the beer was more to style. So the notes are for two nights.

Appearance: Large white long lasting head, copper brown colour, clear, fairly high carbonation. Looks to style except for high carbonation. Lower carbonation more to style on night two.

Aroma: Dark malt sweetness with caramel/toasty grains evidnet. No hops (to style) with a hint of smokiness.

Flavour: Light roast flavour, some fruity esters in mid palate. Low to none bitterness and hop flavour to style. Hint of smoke? Some slight tartness. dry finish.
High carbonation accentuates roast dryness and smoke phenolics leading to tartness rather than smoothness of flavour.
Smoother on second night because of lower carbonation but still some tartness there. Could be smoke phenolics from yeast and/or smoked grain in kit.

Body/Mouthfeel: Low to low medium, over carbonated for style which affects smoothness.
Better with lower carbonation, more to style. 

Overall: Very good appearance and aroma but flavour and body not to the same standard. Better with lower carbonation. The high carbonation reduces malt character while increasing roast and some tartness.
Still an interesting beer with character. Let this one warm a bit and give it time to defizz. Carbonic bite does not enhance this style but there is a good beer waiting for the patient.

PS. I have had a similar tartness from a scottish ale I made it a while ago. I put it down to some roast and smoked malts I used. A small amount of smoke malt seems to give a phenolic tartness rather than a smokiness.So if you want smokiness use 500 gms to a kilo+ of German smoked malt ( but only 100 to 200 gms of British peat smoked malt). I know Linz's was a kit but it might be the reason for the tartness I tasted.

Thanks Linz for an interesting beer.


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## Keith the Beer Guy

I has the pleasure of sharing *Barry's Robust Porter*  last night with a friend.

Barry, I now understand why I have seen your name, so many times, in so many competition results. This was a fabulous beer.

I have to keep my review brief but:

It poured with generous, tightly held tan head (just the way I'm sure god intended all beers to be made!). The dark colour of the beer did not hide that the beer was clear with highlights of dark ruby.

Chocolate aroma with hints of roast.

Plenty of chocolate, coffee and roast in the mouth which a very clean bitterness allowed you to enjoy. The amazing thing was the balance between bitterness, hop taste and malt flavour - absolutely brillant!

Thankyou for sharing this beer.

Comments from my beer tasting friend; "Yaaaaarh, this is what all beer should taste like."

I wanted to ask if the hop boil times on the recipe sheet that came with the beer are correct? I figured I'm tasting hop taste that wouldn't come from a 60 min boil? Or am I wrong or have I just read the recipe incorrectly?

And conincidentally, I happened to be browsing a book last night "Beer Glorious Beer" which had a recipe for a robust porter made by one Barry Cransto (a typo one presumes). There were suggestions from the brewer for improving the recipe in the direction of the porter consumed last night. Is the porter the latest version of a recipe you've been developing for years Barry?

Thanks again,

Keith


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## Barry

Good Day Keith
I am happy you enjoyed the beer. Yes you are correct. I left out a hop addition and didn't notice it. There should be a 10 gms Of East Kent Golding 5.2% pellets added in the last 5 mins. I have corrected the recipe now so thanks for that.
Yes that was my earlier recipe. I can't find the booklet but I remember the "Cransto".
My robust porter is at the bottom end of the specifications for the style because I brew it to drink rather than sip. Must brew a top end version of it one day. 

PS. Just noticed I am no longer a partial man. Thank goodness and it has only taken me 3+ years.


----------



## berapnopod

*Duff's Dunkleweizen*


Aroma: Slight clovey aroma. Perhaps a little solvent. No hops, a little malt. Overall a muted aroma.

Appearance: Medium head of very fine bubbles with medium/low head retention. Light brown colour. About what I would expect for the style. Hazy, as appropriate for style.

Flavour: Balanced malt and hops to give a malt character with a little hops to make it not too cloying. Little wheat flavour, or other flavours associated with weizens but an enjoyble drink all the same. A hint of clove again. Finish is slightly bitter and smooth with a bubbly carbonation bite.

Mouthfeel: Medium/full body. High carbonation, as for style and add a carbonation bite to the end of a mouthfull.

Overall: A good tasting beer thats enjoyable to drink, but lacks character as far as a weizen goes. Not sure what your recipe was, so what I suggest might not be appropriate to you. Theres a bit of clove in there but I can't get any banana, so maybe the fermentation temp was too low? Should be in the 20s. Failing that, it might be the yeast strain. I don't have any experience with WLP300, so I'm not much help here.
There's also a solventy aroma in there, which I guess is my fault for opening the thing a bit early. Maybe give it a couple more weeks. I find that a decoction (or two) goes well in this style, or perhaps some melanoidin malt to mimick a decoction. It adds a bit more malty charater to weizens.


Berp.

My daugther says:

Orange yellow colour. Yes bubbles. Hazy and cloudy. Smells like hops (?)
Bubbly smell and clear smell. spicy and bitter flavour. And juicy. 
Hoppy and hoppy and it tastes like bitter sauce. 5/10


----------



## Keith the Beer Guy

*Nifty's Californian Common*

Again I have not judged this to style but rather simply noted observations:

Aroma: Malt with gentle caramel sweetness. Underlying spicy notes with earthy/herbal aromas present.

Appearance: The beer poured with a great white fluffy head, this subsided reasonably quickly to leave gorgeous lace beading on the glass. A clear beer with a most excellent bronzed golden colour.

Flavour: Malt presence with a hint of graininess. Earthy hop flavour. The bitterness is low and the beer finishes fairly dry. The balance is good.

Mouthfeel: Carbonation low and body light to light/medium. Very smooth almost creamy mouthfeel.

Overall: A refreshing, very drinkable drop. As a constructive comment, I would suggest that if the hop flavour and the malt character were a little more integrated the beer would slide down the more easily. Perhap a little more time cold conditioning?

Thanks for sharing your beer and Happy Brewing.

Keith


----------



## Ross

Were you peeking at Marks tasting notes Keith


----------



## Doc

For those that have been reviewing your tastings; fantastic.
For the rest of the you there are not a lot of reviews happening for this case.
Are the beers bad, or are you just holding off on the tasting like me, choosing to polish off a few kegs instead ?

Doc


----------



## kungy

Ok, hopefully my poor effort can encourage some reviews to happen.

Sticklers Bitter.

A nice pale amber colour, with a nice level of carbonation which I have been unable to hit so far (How much priming agent to Litres did you do when you bottled?), with good clarity and with a nice gentle lacing down the glass all the way down. Relatively malty, with an appropriate level of bitterness.

I was a bit confused by the bottle label though. It said Bitter, your description said Pale Ale, but my tasting seemed to suggest more of an APA with some characteristic fruity aroma and flavour of Cascade hops. Regardless of that, there were no distinct flaws. Done with English hops and the same malt bill it probably would have made a solid English Pale Ale. 

So Stickler an excellent beer. Went down a lot better than the terrible Friday night television.


----------



## Stickler

Hi All, 

Yes Kungy you're right about the name, I can't honestly say what I was thinking when it's obviously an APA :blink: . I'm not really educated in the way of proper Bitters so when I was knocking up a label (in a big rush) I was just thinking commercially and also that most people who try my beers comment on the bitterness level - usually from people who don't appreciate hops.

I'm really relieved to get a positive review, I was a bit nervous as 28 longnecks is the absolute max for my brewing capacity and I didn't get a chance to try it before submitting. Also my brew conditions were not ideal for this batch and a few little things were different from the normal way I make it. Anyway I'm glad at least one person liked it and to answer your question Kungy re: carbonation, I usually go for 7g/lt or maybe a smidge under.

I have tried 6 of the beers so far and have been really impressed as I knew I would. I won't go into big detail as i haven't really taken any notes just jotted down my overall thoughts after finishing the bottle.

*Doc's Irish Red * - Delicious, awesome colour, great mouthfeel and beautifully balanced. 

*Linz's Grumpy Scottish Stag* - I enjoyed this beer but I'm guessing I would have alot more had the carbonation been toned down a little. I was too impatient to let it settle it too much so it kind of overpowered everything. It reminded me of an ESB nut brown ale I made earlier on in my brewing days.

*Stephen's Special Bitter * - This was a really nicely balanced beer but again in this case I found the carbonation level a little too high which threw it out a bit. Great colour and flavour.

*T.D.'s Boston Lager* - This was a really tasty little number, with fruity/spicy notes. I haven't checked your recipe, is that Amarillo?

*Nifty's Californian Common * - Really enjoyed this beer as I was quite thirsty when I cracked it last night and had to stop myself from necking the first glass in one gulp :chug: Wish I had beer like this to drink everyday.

*Barry's Robust Porter * - Unreal. As posted in a previous review this beer is absolutely lovely. Or as my wife so eloquently put it "That's f*cking awesome!".  Her fave beer is the J.S. Porter but I reckon this is better. So many flavours, so balanced, enjoyed every mouthful and I'm lucky my wife is breastfeeding or I would have had to share.

I love this case swap and you'll probably never get a negative review from me cos I know the effort and creativity people put into these brews and mine is most likely the simplest of them all. I'm going to try and hold off having anymore until friday until my brother (another brewer) comes for a visit and we'll more than likely sample a few. I'll try to take more comprehensive notes from now on.

That's it from me for now and at this point Doc's and Barry's will be hard to top - very inspirational. Ahhh to AG, one day...when the planets are in alignment.

Cheers :beer:


----------



## Thommo

Have only had three so far, and as no one can match Berp for detailed notes and analysis, I'll be brief.

_Linz's Grumpy Scottish Stag_ - Apart from the aformentioned overcarbonation, I enjoyed this beer once I'd let it sit for half an hour. I found the first couple of sips of foam were a bit minerally, but after the wait it was okay.

_T.D.'s Boston Lager_ - Bloody awesome. I actually looked at the BJCP guidelines to try and score this one properly, but then realised I didn't know where to classify it. Berp? Anyone? Enjoyed this beer immensly. Is it up in the Recipes section? (Didn't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not there - my missus will vouch for that!!!)

_Doc's Irish Red_ - Had this before at a HBG Pizza night so already knew it was a winner. Just one thing to add. You owe me some yeast Doc. Keg carbonation....no fair.  
This is definantly on my "to Brew" list.

I have a cold at the moment so I'm waiting patiently for my immune system to build back up before I attack it again. On a side note, I cracked one of my stubbies on Sunday and it was lightly carbonated. They have been sitting under the house at about 12 degrees. I'll crack another one this weekend and post back on Monday if it's alright.

EDIT: Can't count.


----------



## KoNG

Thommo,
T.D. is over-seas at the moment, but i'm sure he'll post his recipe on return.
(by the way i dont hink he knows how to classify it either... h34r: )
i know roughly, its a lager using pils and some munich and some hallertau or some tettnang and some 34/70
or something like that.


----------



## T.D.

Stickler said:


> *T.D.'s Boston Lager* - This was a really tasty little number, with fruity/spicy notes. I haven't checked your recipe, is that Amarillo?



I am in Canada at the moment - will be home in around a week. I will post the recipe then. The hops are Tettnang and Hersbrucker. Glad you enjoyed it!


----------



## T.D.

Thommo said:


> I actually looked at the BJCP guidelines to try and score this one properly, but then realised I didn't know where to classify it. Berp? Anyone? Enjoyed this beer immensly. Is it up in the Recipes section? (Didn't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not there - my missus will vouch for that!!!)



Yeah, as Kong mentioned, I have no idea how to classify this beer! :lol: I have it down as an "American Premium Lager" or something like that (operating off memory), that's the closest I can find in the Beersmith list and it matches everything but the bitterness as I recall. Glad you liked the beer Thommo. I promise I will post the recipe asap once I'm back in the land of oz. :beer:


----------



## Keith the Beer Guy

Ahhh Ross, you have discovered my inability to cope with modern technology, but say no more 'cause I am comfortable with the other Luddites living in our cave.  

Stickler don't be afraid to hand negative comments over to me. Honest feedback will help me make my beer better next time around.

The next beer on my "have now consumed" list is *Doc's Irish Red*, and for variety I drank this one by myself.

Judged according to BJCP guidelines.

Aroma: Light malt with caramel sweetness present. Good for style.

Appearance: Off white head that dissipates fairly quickly. Crystal clear with amazing red hue.

Flavour: Malt with lingering caramel sweetness, almost toffee like. Leaves slight buttery taste in mouth on warming. Low hop taste finishing dry with a hint of graininess. Low bitterness. Balance between malt and bitterness is on the money for style.

Mouthfeel: Low carbonation, perhaps a little low for style. Light body. Smooth with a slickness in the mouth, appropriate for style.

Overall Impression: A very well crafted beer. Excellent for style. Drinking the beer is pretty much like reading the style guidelines. Great beer for anyone wishing to understand the style guideline better. I'd like to be a judge when you put some in the state comp.

Thanks,

Keith


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## berapnopod

*T.D.'s Boston Lager*

Unfortunately I am not going to be much help in deciding which BJCP category it goes into. I thought I knew it, but I was thinking of the Sam Adams Ale, which is more like an American Amber. Anyway, here we go!

Aroma: Rich hoppy nose with some fruityness. Not sure where that is coming from but probably the hops. Low esters. A hint of malt but otherwise clean.

Appearance: Gold colour. Brilliantly clear (how'd you do it???). Very fine head which forms a ring around the glass but last for a long time.

Flavour: Decidedly hoppy initially with a strong undercurrent of bitterness that stays with you right through to the end. Supporting malt flavour with a hint of graininess. Again fruitiness in the flavour. Finish is dry and bitter with a hint of drying, almost harsh end.

Mouthfeel: Medium body. Carbonation is medium high and gives a carbonation bite to the beer (could be a touch lower). Some alcohol warmth.

Overall: A great beer, T.D.! Very easy drinking with a good hop flavour to it and plenty of character - not something you usually attribute to a lager. The bitterness is certainly dominant and is close to being too dominant, but I think its a good character where it is now. Well done!

As for style, its sort of like a north german pilsner in the high hopping rates, but its not as dry as I would expect, and a little fuller. Also a little darker, but thats probably your best bet for a style.

Berp.


----------



## Trent

Afraid I have been lazy in the posting reviews dept, even though I have only had 3 so far. All my reviews are going to be my own opinion only, nothing will be intended to cause offense to the brewer if is an unfavourable review. If it is a good review, I mean it. I am only going to give my honest opinion, and expect the same in return, cause I am certain there are quite a few areas in my brew that can do with improving, and I am all ears, and will act on recommendations. IPA is one of my favourite styles, so if I can dial it in with the help of honest feedback, I will be a happy camper....

Anyway, even though I am taking notes on score sheets, I wont go too into detail, and will give it a score at the end.

Linz's Scottish Stag

I found the aroma to be quite subdued as far as maltiness or peatiness that I would expect in a scottish ale, instead I found a slightly metallic aroma, that may have been yeast? It was a dark copper in colour, with a massive head that subsided quickly to loose formed bubbles around the glass. It looked like a kit beer with the large carbonation bubbles, and it was also quite cloudy. I should have opened it and let it rest a few hours. My apologies that I didnt.
For such a coloured beer, I found the flavours almost non existent, except that metallic/yeasty (?) flavour was alot more pronounced in the flavour than the aroma. I couldnt really taste any of the malty sweetness I would expect in a scottish ale, nor the peaty/smoky character that seems to be characteristic. I may have served it a little too cold, though it improved little as it warmed. The carbonation obviously had alot to do with the muting of the flavours. Carbonation also rendered the beer reasonably thinner than the medium low body that I detected, my throat and tongue tingled, but there was no astringency to it.
The metallic flavour was just too much for me, I am afraid, and I didnt really enjoy this beer as much as I should have. Possibly it is the carbonation factor, and I would like to try this beer less carbonated, as it would probably taste very different. All I can recommend (apart from the carb) is to maybe next time try and boil down a few litres to a litre or so to get that kettle caramelisation? Dont know what else to suggest. I gave it 21/50
All the best
Trent


----------



## Trent

DOC'S Irish Red

I found this beer to have a sweet malty aroma with caramel and toffee notes, and no fruitiness or anything to put it out of style. It was a deep copper, clear with a low white head. The flavour was quite smooth, with caramelly sweetness and toffee flavours and some alcohol warming. I thought I detected a low hop flavour (to style) and the finish dried out slightly due to the use of roasted malts. definitely balanced towards the malt, but the medium bitterness prevented it from being cloying. I found it to have medium carbonation, medium body, and a creaminess to it. This beer fits into style prefectly, but IMO it sat too heavily in my stomach to be an all night drink, great for the one bottle, but wouldnt go back for another straight afterwards. All my beers used to sit this heavy in my guts and I couldnt ever have a big night on them, so I reduced my mash temp, which is what I would do in the case of this beer to make it more quaffable. That might reduce the sweetness up front though, so may not be the answer, but thought I would mention it anyway. I gave it 42.5/50
All the best
Trent
EDIT - sp.


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## Trent

Stephens Best Bitter

I found a slightly metallic aroma to this beer, probably yeast, with some malt aroma, with moderate hop and fruity esters. There was no diacetyle, and I found a low caramel note as it warmed. It was medium gold, clear, but not brilliant, and had a dense white head that dissipated quickly, though it could have been my glassware. There was a low malt flavour, and a moderate fruitiness, but low hop flavour. There was only a med/low bitterness, and I found the metallic/yeasty flavours to be a little more dominant than anything else, yet other flavours still showed through. The finish was a bit sweeter than I would expect in a bitter, and there was a bit of carbonic bite. I haven't written "was it fermented a little warmish?" but have given any description as to why I thought that (sorry). It had a medium/low body, with a slight creaminess that I found was almost negated by a low level of carbonic bite. There was also a low level of alcohol warmth.
This is quite an easy drinking beer, but for a bitter should be a little drier in the finish, and have a firmer bitterness. I found the yeast to be the dominant flavour, yet not in an offensive way, but I would have liked to have tasted a little more malt, and maybe a touch more hop flavour (and more bitterness). Maybe use a bit more crystal or roasted malts to darken the colour and dry it out a little, and possibly burtonise your water if you have already put in enough bittering hops to give it a 0.9-1.0 BU-GU ratio. this is something I will be doing with my bitters soon, they dont have the firmess I am looking for, so that may be something to look at.
Of the several beers of Stephens I have tried, I am afraid to say that this one is my least favourite, but it is still a nice beer. I gave it 34/50
All the best
Trent
EDIT - spelling


----------



## stephen

Trent said:


> Stephens Best Bitter
> 
> I found a slightly metallic aroma to this beer, probably yeast, with some malt aroma, with moderate hop and fruity esters. There was no diacetyle, and I found a low caramel note as it warmed. It was medium gold, clear, but not brilliant, and had a dense white head that dissipated quickly, though it could have been my glassware. There was a low malt flavour, and a moderate fruitiness, but low hop flavour. There was only a med/low bitterness, and I found the metallic/yeasty flavours to be a little more dominant than anything else, yet other flavours still showed through. The finish was a bit sweeter than I would expect in a bitter, and there was a bit of carbonic bite. I haven't written "was it fermented a little warmish?" but have given any description as to why I thought that (sorry). It had a medium/low body, with a slight creaminess that I found was almost negated by a low level of carbonic bite. There was also a low level of alcohol warmth.
> This is quite an easy drinking beer, but for a bitter should be a little drier in the finish, and have a firmer bitterness. I found the yeast to be the dominant flavour, yet not in an offensive way, but I would have liked to have tasted a little more malt, and maybe a touch more hop flavour (and more bitterness). Maybe use a bit more crystal or roasted malts to darken the colour and dry it out a little, and possibly burtonise your water if you have already put in enough bittering hops to give it a 0.9-1.0 BU-GU ratio. this is something I will be doing with my bitters soon, they dont have the firmess I am looking for, so that may be something to look at.
> Of the several beers of Stephens I have tried, I am afraid to say that this one is my least favourite, but it is still a nice beer. I gave it 34/50
> All the best
> Trent
> EDIT - spelling


Trent

I thank you for your honest appraisal of my beer. 

The metallic taste I think may have come from the 1028 yeast I used: I have heard quite a few people mention that it will impart a metallic tatse into a beer. Then again it could be the ferment temp! I didn't have much control when I made this brew so it could have been any temp. Also, I don't know how old this yeast is or how many generations it has been used for.

The over carbonation resulted from my "6 grams/bottle of sugar" priming regime that I employed at the time of bottling - I have since learned more and now follow a more regulated priming schedule: Look at the style and (using Promash) use the correct amount of primer.

As for the rest - this where the feedback that you and others provide that will help me improve my brewing methods and recipes. For this I thank you all in advance.

Again, Trent, thank you for the feedback. The beers you have tried before (at BJCP) this have been made after this particular brew and after I have learned more as I made each brew. 

Regards

Steve


----------



## DrewCarey82

T.D's Boston Lager.

Appearance - Dark yellow in colour almost dawnish yellow, good carbonation and an excellent long lasting head, perfect in this regard.

Taste - At first it was a bit funky for my liking for the first schooner but by the end of the second schooner had a nice appreciation for it, rather hoppy but would be a great sessional beer.

7/10 - An aquired taste I feel, not one that everyone could dig into right away.


----------



## Barry

Good Day
Gee I have certainly enjoyed drinking these beers.  Here is a few opinions for what they are worth.

Steve's Special Bitter

Appearance: Gold, clear, good head that lasts fairly well, medium high carbonation (high for style). Looks like bottled special bitter.

Aroma: Ale malt, herbal/floral hop aroma, some esters, English yeast character coming through, solid English ale aroma.

Flavour: English malt flavour, bready/toasty, medium bitterness, herbal English hop flavour, dry finish with lingering hop earthiness. High carbonation detracts with carbonic bite but eases with time in the glass, sweet malt builds up.

Mouthfeel: light/medium, high carbonation detracts.

Overall: A very drinkable special bitter with English malt, hop and yeast character. High carbonation detracts

36-37/50 when allowed to defizz a bit. ( at 8-10oC)


----------



## Barry

T.D.'s Boston Lager

Appearance: Amber, good long lasting head, very clear, fine bead.

Aroma: Clean malt, some caramel, some spicey hop aroma. Good balance of malt and hops.

Flavour: Clean sweet malt with caramel, medium/high bitterness giving a bitter sweet flavour. Hop spice/herbal flavour builds up nicely, fairly bitter finish. A bit higher carbonation would lighten slightly heavy malt. Still very moreish.

Mouthfeel: Rather full bodied, fine bead carbonation, very smooth.

Overall: A strong flavoured lager, bitter sweet, rather full bodied for style (American vienna??). Rich lager that is nearly ale like.

38/50 ( I see in my notes I gave the commercial version 39/50 18 months ago it was similar but more of a vienna style).


----------



## Trent

TD's Boston Lager

I found the aroma to be maltiness with a light grainy character, some sweetness and a low hop aroma. It was a clean aroma, with no diacetyl of real fruitiness, but probably a little more malt aroma than yer average lager. It looked a med-deep gold, and was clear with a low white head, and low-med carbonation. As far as flavours go, I found a malty sweetness, offset by a medium bitterness, and a pleasant amount of hop flavour. The hop flavour lingered into the aftertaste and the beer finished slightly sweet. I thought it was well balanced. I found a med to med-full body, medium carbonation and a slight tingling in my throat. There was no astringency, and it had a creaminess to it that made it quite a satisfying beer. 
Overall, I thought it to be an excellent beer, with plenty of body and malt, sufficient hop flavour, while not having too much, and the right amount of bitterness to support it all. It certainly isnt the every day lager, and as Barry just said, it is probably more inline with a Vienna, though it is quite a bit sweeter than a Vienna would be? I really enjoyed it, and would probably call it an "ale drinkers lager" due to the body and flavour it has. I didnt know what to judge it to, and just gave points for what I thought it should get, and ended up at 42/50.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Barry

Nifty's Calf. Common

Appearance: Dark gold/light amber, very good good head, some haze, low+ carbonation.

Aroma: Clean malt with some toasty aroma (vienna or munich?), real herbal/earthy hop aroma. Full rich aroma to style.

Flavour: Full malt, toasty with caramel, solid bitterness that lingers, nice herbal/earthy hop flavour. Bitter finish to style, malt might be slightly too rich for style but balances hops well.

Mouthfeel: Med+ body, might be too full for style but very smooth, Medium carbonation.

Overall: A very tasty calf. common. Good hop/malt balance. Slightly too full bodied and smooth malt flavour for style (could have some graininess) but sooo drinkable. Better than any steam beer that I have made (which is not saying much when I come to think of it).

39/50

Well these are just my opinions so lets hear yours. Nothing is absolute in beer appreciation because tastes differ so much. 
All great beers to sample. :super:


----------



## Duff

I've only had one so far, Berto hasn't had any as they are still sitting in my garage...

I'm a little concerned of mine, it was a late rush on a receipe I've never tried before h34r: If it sucks I'll make it up in December with one so hoppy you'll have to wear a gas mask when pouring :lol:


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## berapnopod

*Stephen's Special Bitter*

Poured foamy - 3/4 beer 1/4 foam in the glass.

Aroma: Floral hoppy aroma immediately obvious even with the thick head. Spicy, with a hint of alcohol underneath. Some fruity esters.

Appearance: Very clear, high carbonation in the beer supports a very thick head of fine, white bubbles that forms ice-cream texture head after a couple of minutes. Colour is just a tad darker than gold. 

Flavour: Nutty and slightly molassess flavour with the malt initially. Some balancing hop flavour which takes second place to the malt at the moment. The main thing is the carbonation is too high and gives you a foamy mouth, which makes it hard to get to the flavours. Finish is assertively bitter and slightly dry, with a lingering earthy aftertaste.

Mouthfeel: Medium body. Very high carbonation. Some astringency detected in there as well. Not sure if its from the hops or the mashing regime.

Overall: The beer obviously suffers from overcarbonation, but I can tell there is a good balance of malt and hop flavours which taste pretty much as I would expect for a bitter. I'll note the point that 5% is a bit on the high side for a best bitter (as far as entering it in a competition goes) and would probably suit better as an ESB/English Pale Ale. After pondering this beer a while (and letting it degas), I've come to the conclusion its a very nice sesion beer, if a little strong. There is also a very subtle cloying character that lingers in the mouth. I am not sure what thi is from. Perhaps a bit of diacetyl or a bit of DMS. I don't think its cloying because of too much residual sugar.


Berp.

PS. Jessie's comments: 
aroma: bitter and I think its a bit of sugar. 
flavour: bitter and it looks like tomato sauce. A little bit salty and a little bit grumbly. 10/10


----------



## KoNG

berapnopod said:


> A little bit salty and a little bit grumbly. 10/10



:lol: :lol: GOLD..!!! a little bit "Grumbly" (new BJCP descriptive)


----------



## stephen

[
PS. Jessie's comments: 
aroma: bitter and I think its a bit of sugar. 
flavour: bitter and it looks like tomato sauce. A little bit salty and a little bit grumbly. 10/10
[/quote]
To all who have commented on my beer I thank you. It is very refreshing to hear that I have made a decent beer, although a bit overcarbonated. This is one of my earlier AG brews, No. 6 to be precise, and, as I stated in an earlier post I have learnt a lot more since: Have AG No 22 primary as I type. 

I also thank you all for the feedback on how to improve this beer. Basically it is a slightly modified version of Tony's Special Bitter recipe that can be found somewhere in this forum. But the suggestions will be utilised. Again, Thank you!

As for Jessie's comments, I think I will frame these and hang them in my brewery. For these are treasured comments - and honest. Thank you.

Steve


----------



## PostModern

Ah guys, I have sad news. Something, I know not what, as my mashing difficulties could not have produced the off-flavour I detect in my beer, has made my contribution taste crap. I kept a few in the cupboard so I could check out what it was like and I'm sorry to report a dud. If anyone could brave a sip (it won't kill you, I've had two whole bottles so far) and give their opinion on what made this foulness, please post in here. It's very dry and astringent... bottle with no label but "PoMo" in texta on the lid.

Again, my apologies and I promise to contribute something proven for the Xmas at Xmas case should you chose to accept me (where's the emoticon for the walk of shame?).


----------



## Boozy the clown

Ahh the lone wolf walk of shame...

it makes people like me feel better to hear stories (rare as they are) of blokes who know what they are doing turn out a dud.

I just diguise my shite beers with high alc so after the second one (if the drinker dares) they dont remember much at all! :blink:


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## Trent

Sorry to hear that PoMo. I will try and give your's a crack over the weekend, no guarantees I will be able to help identify the culprit, but I will give it my best shot
All the best
Trent


----------



## berapnopod

PostModern said:


> Ah guys, I have sad news. Something, I know not what, as my mashing difficulties could not have produced the off-flavour I detect in my beer, has made my contribution taste crap. I kept a few in the cupboard so I could check out what it was like and I'm sorry to report a dud. If anyone could brave a sip (it won't kill you, I've had two whole bottles so far) and give their opinion on what made this foulness, please post in here. It's very dry and astringent... bottle with no label but "PoMo" in texta on the lid.
> 
> Again, my apologies and I promise to contribute something proven for the Xmas at Xmas case should you chose to accept me (where's the emoticon for the walk of shame?).



To be honest, PoMo, I wish there were more bad beers in the case. I certainly learn a lot more that way and hopefully others do too. So I will definitely try your beer at some stage and lets see if we can find out whats going on.

Stephen, glad you liked Jessies comments. She certainly enjoyed giving them to me, and was giggling all over the place when she came up with the word "grumbly". Dunno what it means though. Don't worry, she wasn't giggling 'cos she was tipsy, she only gets one sip, but I'll make a brewer and beer judge out of her yet :beerbang: 

Berp.


----------



## Samwise Gamgee

Start 'em while they're young berp!


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## Borret

berapnopod said:


> To be honest, PoMo, I wish there were more bad beers in the case.
> Berp.


That would have to be the single most stupid idea that I have read on this forum!

Lets get 28 people together to make 630 odd litres of bad beer to sip twice and tip down the sink.

I thought this case was about sharing some of yer best with people in the spirit of the sport, not treating it as a university style beer deconstruction course where you sit down to 5 bottles of bad beer to identify whats gone wrong in each!


Whatda? :blink: 

Brent


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## PostModern

Borret said:


> berapnopod said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, PoMo, I wish there were more bad beers in the case.
> Berp.
> 
> 
> 
> That would have to be the single most stupid idea that I have read on this forum!
> 
> Lets get 28 people together to make 630 odd litres of bad beer to sip twice and tip down the sink.
> 
> I thought this case was about sharing some of yer best with people in the spirit of the sport, not treating it as a university style beer deconstruction course where you sit down to 5 bottles of bad beer to identify whats gone wrong in each!
> 
> 
> Whatda? :blink:
> 
> Brent
Click to expand...


I agree. Berp, what are you thinking? A cheap way around buying a taint kit? 

Reminds me of the milk-tasting scene in Napoleon Dynamite:

"The fault in this one is bleach".
"This one tastes like the cow got into an onion patch".


----------



## warrenlw63

PostModern said:


> "This one tastes like the cow got into an onion patch".



Possibly to save the lonley little petunia? :blink: 

Oh and Berp! Lighten up a bit. Bad beer is the bane of all brewers existence.  

Warren -


----------



## berapnopod

Borret said:


> berapnopod said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest, PoMo, I wish there were more bad beers in the case.
> Berp.
> 
> 
> 
> That would have to be the single most stupid idea that I have read on this forum!
> 
> Lets get 28 people together to make 630 odd litres of bad beer to sip twice and tip down the sink.
> 
> I thought this case was about sharing some of yer best with people in the spirit of the sport, not treating it as a university style beer deconstruction course where you sit down to 5 bottles of bad beer to identify whats gone wrong in each!
> 
> 
> Whatda? :blink:
> 
> Brent
Click to expand...


Sorry Borret, PoMo, I didn't mean _every_ beer should be bad. Merely making the point that a bad beer is not a complete loss. It is possible to learn a lot from one - perhaps a lot more than from a good one. But I take your point that I am treating this as my own little beer judge seminar and maybe everyone doesn't want to read about that stuff.

Berp.


----------



## Thommo

I want to read it Berp, I'm sure we all do. Just don't want to drink bad beer. Keep the reviews coming. Great way to learn, both the good and the bad. KUTGW.

Thommo.


----------



## Trent

PoMo's Bitter

I approached this beer with trepidation, as Pomo has already warned of it, but the initial aroma didnt seem so bad, a little malt with a mild caramel, and a fairly strong fruity smell I first mistook for esters. Second sniff revealed the "esters" to be a sweet grapelike aroma, almost like a beer mixed with a dry white wine, or even a cider (I guess). I couldnt detect any hops under this aroma, it was too dominant. The beer looked the part, a deep amber colour, very clear, with a low white head that didnt last long, and low carbonation. On first taste, I found an almost astringent (probably more than almost) dryness, with a kinda sour grape flavour, it could be ciderlike, I havent had cider in years. It is a very strange flavour to pick, but I would have to describe it as winy, or vinous. Seems to be a medium/high bitterness, but it could be the astingency. Astringency gave it a very thin mouthfeel, it had a low carbonation, yet my mouth was tingling like it was carbonic bite.
Anyway, I can only assume the astingency has come from either oversparging, or (as you mentioned mashing difficulties in your warning) too fine a crush, extracting tannins from shredded husk. the winy or vinous flavour that seems to be dominant (though tames as you drink more of it) could be from either too much sugar, but I think it is AG, so could it possibly be oxidation, or, not sure that I even believe this is a real thing or not, Hot Side Aeration? Was it splashed at racking, or splahed alot when hot, to relieve a stuck sparge? My apologies if these theories dont ring true, it is the best I can come up with - I am still a bit of a novice at picking these faults! Maybe Berp will be able to help you, I havent gotten to the "doctored beer" part of the BJCP yet.
I feel quite sure, PoMo that you consistently make good beers, may I lend my condolences on the fact that the one you made with a fault ended up in the case swap. I hope that my "diagnosis" helps prevent this kinda thing for you in the future. 
All the best
Trent
PS None of these traits seemed to diminish as the beer warmed, and I am sorry to say it didnt all end up in my liver 
EDIT - I gave it 16/50, probably shoulda given it higher, over 21 to put it into "misses the mark on style/or minor flaws. Ya hit the style well, just them flaws....


----------



## Weizguy

PostModern Bitta:

I tasted most of the off-flavours that Trent did.
I also tasted the malt and some hop flavour. This was followed by the esters and the dryness and some winey-ness.

It reminds me of the flavour of the Wyeast ESB yeast. I shall compare it to a Fuller's London Pride clone I made, except your beer didn't taste of stale hop. I had to double-think myself out this comparison, but I was still reminded by the estery, slightly tart dryness.

Definitely not a contamination, but not a flavour I liked; but it mostly went away as the beer warmed.

I'm not giving marks to the case beers, so I'll suggest four things instead.
1/ Maybe it's the yeast that provides these flavours.
2/ Maybe mash a little higher and add a little more crystal malt next time you brew for me :lol: 
3/ Be careful of sparging too much.
4/ Beware of oxidation. It wasn't an age oxidation character in this beer, as far as I'm concerned

I'm not sure if these comments ring true for you, but I'm happy to taste another, next time U make it.

These comments come 24 hours after I tasted the beer, so pls adjust my credibility factor accordingly. Last night was a rest night, with v little activity apart from the casual consumption of the bottle of PoMo Bitter, followed by 3 middies of beer (Stephen's bitter, Stephen's Cornish amber, my Vienna Wheat).

Here's one for Berp to suss out: was it the yeast or the method that gave these flavours.

Seth out


----------



## Trent

Seth
If it was the yeast, that would explain alot. I seem very sensitive (wow, I am sensitive after all!) to 1968 yeast flavours, there was a beer in the xmas case at xmas that gave me the same flavours I get from 1968, and it was the same yeast as PoMo used in this one I think. I didnt taste the usual flavours I get in the Wyeast though, but I think I asked then if it was the Whitelabs equivalent. Looking forward to reading Berps review
Trent


----------



## PostModern

It's probably not the yeast. I brewed with WLP023 and used the top cropping from the Bitter batch to brew an AG Porter which (I hardly dare to admit here) is quite nice  I did use 1968 in the Xmas case, tho. Might be a bad run of beers from Iron Wolf for you, Trent 

Oversparging... yeah, maybe, but not likely. I think the problem may have been the mystical HSA, as during the sparge, the unsoldered components of my manifold came apart while I was trying to clear a blockage. This was a part mash in a six-pack esky. I used as much grain as I normally do (3Kg) and sparged enough to fill two large pots to boil on my stove, about 15L... However, the usual hydrometer tasting I took at racking was quite normal and the beer tasted nice. 

As I don't bottle any more, I'm guessing I did something wrong at bottling. Either not rinsing the percarbonate out of the bottling bucket well enough... really I don't know. I've brewed 3 batches in the same fermenters since this batch and have not experienced anything else like it. Bah. 

I've tasted a few other beers from the case, will post reviews when I don't feel quite so stupid and emabarassed


----------



## stephen

Weizguy said:


> PostModern Bitta:
> 
> I tasted most of the off-flavours that Trent did.
> I also tasted the malt and some hop flavour. This was followed by the esters and the dryness and some winey-ness.
> 
> It reminds me of the flavour of the Wyeast ESB yeast. I shall compare it to a Fuller's London Pride clone I made, except your beer didn't taste of stale hop. I had to double-think myself out this comparison, but I was still reminded by the estery, slightly tart dryness.
> 
> Definitely not a contamination, but not a flavour I liked; but it mostly went away as the beer warmed.
> 
> I'm not giving marks to the case beers, so I'll suggest four things instead.
> 1/ Maybe it's the yeast that provides these flavours.
> 2/ Maybe mash a little higher and add a little more crystal malt next time you brew for me :lol:
> 3/ Be careful of sparging too much.
> 4/ Beware of oxidation. It wasn't an age oxidation character in this beer, as far as I'm concerned
> 
> I'm not sure if these comments ring true for you, but I'm happy to taste another, next time U make it.
> 
> These comments come 24 hours after I tasted the beer, so pls adjust my credibility factor accordingly. Last night was a rest night, with v little activity apart from the casual consumption of the bottle of PoMo Bitter, followed by 3 middies of beer (Stephen's bitter, Stephen's Cornish amber, my Vienna Wheat).
> 
> Here's one for Berp to suss out: was it the yeast or the method that gave these flavours.
> 
> Seth out


Seth

How was the Cornish Amber? Me thinks It may have a bit too much diacetyl which can be a bit of a detraction from what I was intending for the brew.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I like honest feedback on all my brews - good or bad - as long as it is honest.

Steve


----------



## Trent

PoMo
Dont feel stupid, or embarrassed, its just one of them things that happens, and if ya learn from it, then it is a good thing. Just dont do it to us again! 
Trent


----------



## PostModern

When I find out what caused it, I'll make sure never to do it again, promise 

Reviews to follow shortly.


----------



## Trent

Josh's Pilsner

Firm, slightly grainy malt aroma with spicy hops. Couldnt detect any sulfur, and there was a low note of DMS. There was also alot of yeast aroma showing through. It was a mid yellow in colour, with a dense frothy head that was quite large when poured, and persisted due to high carbonation. I found it to be reasonably bitter, yet also slightly sweet, especially in the finish, with some tingling from carbonic bite. The hop flavour is med/high, and the yeast flavour is, again, quite prominent on my palate. The bitterness lingers into the aftertaste. It has a medium body, with a high level of carbonation, low alcohol warmth with a slight creaminess due to the sweetness. No astringency, and a reasonable carbonice bite.
Overall, I found it to be a nice beer, though for mine it was a little too sweet, and the yeast flavour was too prevalent, but I am notorious for picking up on yeast flavours, so take that comment with a grain of salt. I just read the recipe, and there is a surprising amount of bitterness and hop flavour, considering it is FWH only. Before I knew what it was, I found it to be almost a cross between a Bohemian and German Pils, having the bitterness (lingering bitterness, and not super smooth) and carbonation of a German pils, and the body/maltiness of a Bohemian. I would suggest (and I am often wrong) to use half of your finishing hops as FWH, and then add a separate bittering addition, and your finishing additions to smooth out the overall bitterness. My biggest complaint was with the yeast flavour, but that could be just my palate (see above)
I gave this beer a 36/50
All the best
Trent


----------



## PostModern

*LINZ'S GRUMPY SCOT STAG*

With all the warnings about this bottle I approached it with caution. When Linz kindly dropped the case at my place on Friday, he told me what Barry Cranston did to serve this beer, so I copied the method. In the end, I managed to get one nice clean pint out of it, with losses along the way. What I did was to chill the beer in the coldest part of the fridge for 24 hours. I chilled my big glass beer jug and another jug. So a day after the bottle was chilled, I poured it into the chilled jugs very slowly, and the overflow into a pint glass. As the foam subsided, I moved poured all the jugs into the big one, poured a half pint to sample straight away and put what was left in the jug into the fridge.

The initial aroma was of apples, sort of. Something familiar and fruity anyway. Maybe apples and pears or apples and passionfruit. No hop aroma, hint of caramel malt. This fruitiness was not so evident in the settled beer. A couple hours later, I decanted from the jug into a pint glass. By then all the gas had disipated, so I was left with a dark brown coloured flat ale with a moderate caramel aroma and all of the yeast in the jug. Quite nice actually. Bitterness was low, as I would expect of a scotch ale, there was a trace of sourness there, slightly winey, slightly fresh grape, a reasonable amount of caramel. The mouthfeel was slightly thin, flat (of course )... perhaps the brew was overattenuated. 

It seems to me that the wort was a reasonable one for the style but that perhaps fermentation had stalled before bottling. Once in the bottle it took off again, consuming the tougher sugars which left the brew thin, to my palate. As I told Linz on Friday, some time ago, some friends and I split a culture of WLP002, and we all brewed like madmen with it. Bottling away about 3-4 batches each. All the 10 beers we brewed with it came out like this one, gushing out of the bottle. At the time, we put the high FG down to the low attenuation expected from the strain, but in hindsight, we think we made a dodgy starter, either contaminating or mutating the yeast.


----------



## PostModern

*STICKLER'S BITTER*

First words: I really liked this beer. There was a nice big hit of American hop aroma as soon as I opened the bottle. Amarillo? The colour was a gorgeous golden-straw colour with a hint of red. Brilliant clarity. The bitterness was restrained, I'd prefer a few more IBUs in there, but the bitterness was noticeable and in good balance with the malt bill. There is a hint of fruit from the yeast in there but over all it was a very clean flavour and very refreshing. A more than slight, but not over the top hint of sherbet in the aftertaste. I would have enjoyed a bit more carbonaton, but I'm an 8psi kegger  The low carbonation made it very easy to drink. It was a bit thin for my liking but only a bit, this would make for an excellent session ale. I was sad when I finished the glass.

Thanks Stickler. Really enjoyed this.


----------



## PostModern

*THOMMO'S APA*

I could detect no aroma in this beer. As in almost nothing. Maybe my nose was desensitised by Stickler's hoppy beer. There was a waft of diacetyl as it warmed. The beer was a nice and clear with a deep rich amber colour. The flavour was quite restrained, bit of crystal malt with diacetyl dominating. Was this brew fermented exceptionally cool? The carbonation was nice and lively, and a nice crystal thickness without being at all syrupy. I think for an APA is was very much underhopped. I would have added more hops at the start, middle and end of the boil. I'd be looking to trace the source of the diacetyl, as I think with less of it the beer's other characters stand out.


----------



## Doc

*TD's Boston Lager*

To be honest up front, I shouldn't really be trying to eval beers after drinking my Hop Whompus, because even my Ordinary Bitter tastes like water after the HW.

Pours well, nice carbonation, with minimal head. Not a lot of aroma, and a nice deep golden colour.
If it wasn't labelled a lager I could have easily mistaken it for an ale. Good body, nice residual sweetness, low bitterness.
Great easy drinking beer. 

Beers,
Doc


----------



## shmick

My appologies to all re the lack of reviews - I've just been too busy

I've downed a few with only breif notes so they are not particularly detailed reviews.
They are not judged to style - only to my own warped sense of personal preference.

*Keith's Choc Porter* (last Fri night) - Poured flat with no head what so ever. On closer inspection carbonation was there and had a very slight bite right to the end. Not sure what level of carb was intended but it works quite well at this level. Colour black with nice ruby highlights. Surprisingly intense choc/coffee malt in the mouth with a little lasting sweetness - very smooth. Slight hop flavours hiding in the background where they should be. I really liked this one for the luscious flavours and the absence of burnt/charcoal astringency which can sometimes overpower porters. Well done Keith

*Trent's IIPA* - I had big hopes for this one and it didn't disappoint. A solid malt base supporting a huge whack of earthy hops. Bitterness and aroma is right up there and lingers for quite a while without being harsh. Soft warming alcohol present in the background but holds a head well. Loved it - my favourite so far.

*n00ch's dark mild* - Dark, subtle and well balanced flavours. A little thin bodied for my tastes but it hangs together pretty well - If the kidneys held out you could drink it all night. Overall pretty good for such a low alcohol beer. My personal preference would be to push up the crystal a little to fill it out and add a slightly sweet ending.

*PoL's Dortmund lager* - Slightly sweet malt with wonderful noble hop aroma. Bitterness was good but maybe a tad low - again my personal prefernece. It had a slight yeasty/fruity/funky after taste that was a little disturbing - sort of reminded me of a wheat beer (notes?). I suspect it may need a little more cold conditioning (I only left it 4 days in the fridge). I usually find my bottle conditioned lagers need a good 4 - 6wks extra conditioning after bottling to crisp up. They can be a bit soapy otherwise. 
This was one of the first ones I opened so maybe somebody else can give a more accurate report later on.

*Barry's Robust Porter* - I would have to agree with some of the other evaluations posted already. A supurbly crafted porter by all accounts but just a touch too toasty for my personal tastes.

*Nifty's Calif common* - First one of these I've tasted in the flesh (as opposed to tasting in a book review) so I have nothing to compare it to. Definitely different but in a good way. Smooth, malty & slightly fruity. Underlying bitterness is firm but good and the hop flavours come through well. Very enjoyable.

*Linz's very grumpy Scottish stag* - Huge carbonation bite with a very dry malt finish (after I beat it's head back with a large stick). However I am lucky enough to have an extra one due to my transporting efforts which I'll treat with a little more care and get back to you.

*Stephen's Special bitter* - Beautifully clear flavoursome bitter. Well balanced malt / hops. Slight metallic/yeasty aftertaste. Initially a little overcarbed resulting in almost lagerlike attributes but upon slight warming and settling it was quite enjoyable. Good stuff Stephen.

That's all for now


----------



## T.D.

Hi all. I got back from overseas this morning. I have put the recipe for my Boston Lager up in the recipes section of the site. The only problem is the calculations/estimations of IBUs, gravities and colour are not the same as what Beersmith came up with. So, the recipe is exactly as it appears in the database, but with the following stats according to Beersmith:

OG: 1.052
FG: 1.009
Colour: 14.3
IBU: 36.3

And just a few more little details that may be helpful... 

Mash temp was 65degC
No chiller method was used
Yeast was in fact W34/70 but is not available in the recipe database


I am gearing up to get stuck into these beers now! I have Linz's brew in the fridge already. The Jetlag's starting to kick in so I'm not sure if I'll crack it tonight - I might fall asleep after the first sip! 

Cheers, and thanks for the comments on my entry. :beer:


----------



## Stickler

Thanks PoMo for the kind review, I think the aroma that you got upon opening would have been the Cascade that I added. The kit I used as a base was a Morgans IPA and I haven't used one before and I'm not sure if it has Amarillo in it.

I tried a few more over the weekend and took a few more notes this time:

*Schmick's ESB* - Had a dark amber/caramel colour which was nice. No head on this one - could be my beer glasses, I gave up giving them any special treatment ages ago.
Had a tough time getting any aroma for a while, probably started off a bit cold. As it warmed up a bit I was getting a sweet rich/alcoholy nose and after a while I think I pinpointed it as dark dried fruits like raisins or prunes.
On tasting, again probably a bit cold to begin with and I couldn't find anything standing out except for a lingering bitterness on my back palate. However I really liked it but couldn't work out what flavours I was getting. My brother was tasting with me and after a while he came up with "a little soapy"? but didn't pick up on that myself.
Anyway we both enjoyed it despite being a little confounded by it - but be assured that is because of our lack of tasting experience not the beer. Thanks Schmick.

*P.O.L's Dortmunder Export* - Had no idea what to expect of this - we had never heard of this style before. I opened this on Friday and it had been in my fridge for a week. Perhaps I should have heeded P.O.L's advice and given it a while longer cos when I opened it it started foaming out the top. After racing it to the kitchen sink and putting it there it continued to _slowly _ foam out for about 10 mins. I'd never seen a beer do that before and even thought about videoing it and posting it. We still managed to get a good glass full each though.
The appearance was alot like Schmick's, Dark honey/amber and again very little head.
It had a really sweet aroma with that candied banana, and hints of clove just like those European wheat beers.
It tasted nice and rich and was really well balanced. The flavours really backed up the aromas and I was pretty much tasting what I had smelled. We really enjoyed it and were quite impressed.
Now to put my neck out - is this a wheat beer?, it really reminded me of some of the beers I had when I was in France. Thanks P.O.L.

*Keith's Bastard Chocolate Porter * - Almost black appearance, with a really thin tan head.
HUGE dark chocolate/coffee aroma, absolutely unmistakeable - which is nice for me as I always have trouble pinpointing smells. My brain recognises them but I have a hard time putting them into words.
Wow this is a thick, rich beer - no shortage of flavour here. Again - alot like the smell it was very chocolatey and coffeeish. With this beer I don't think I was in the best tasting mood and towards the end of the longneck started to find the residual sweetness a little cloying. But I had had a huge night on Fri (tasted this on Sun) and I don't think I had fully recovered by the stage I cracked it open. I have learnt from that mistake. Thank you Keith.

Now that I've taken some notes on the beers, I am feeling encouraged about doing it some more, it's really good fun. For those of you who haven't tried - give it a go and I highly recommend having someone with you who's interested in giving it a go too, it helped me out a bit. I haven't done it yet but I want to try and do a blind tasting with some of these - just gotta organise myself. When I used to work with wine I found it was the only true way to taste without any bias. Amazing how some of the "experts" become a little introspective when they don't know what they're tasting. Enough of my rambling. THanks again for the great beers.

Sticko


----------



## shmick

Thanks for the comments Stickler - don't worry about your glasses, the ESB was intentionally carbed on the low side.
It was also brewed with S-04 yeast which maybe the soapy taste - some people are sensitive to it.

*Just a note for anybody else trying it - I would recommend allowing it to warm slightly (7-8degC) before drinking.*

It is primarily a malt driven strong ale and as such is a bit of a balancing act between bitterness and malt sweetness. Too cold and it becomes flavourless and overbitter (as Stickler described), too warm and it is cloyingly sweet. Somewhere in the middle it seems to work ok. Higher carbonation levels tend to cause harsh flavours also hence it is not very lively.

This one started life as a Fuller's ESB clone but was toned down bit for the case swap. My previous efforts were hopped almost to nose bleed level which some people aren't keen on.
I only got to taste 1 very green stubby of this one before the swap so I don't know how it's maturing.
Any feedback is welcome.


----------



## Gough

Dunno 'bout nosebleed Shmick :lol: It wasn't that full on mate!

Just a headsup re: my contribution, the 'Pogue Mahone' Dry Irish Stout. After 25 days in the bottle, unless you've been keeping it at really cold temps, it should now be pretty well carbed up so drink at will  Thanks for waiting and letting it carb up... 

Shawn.


----------



## PostModern

Stickler said:


> Thanks PoMo for the kind review, I think the aroma that you got upon opening would have been the Cascade that I added. The kit I used as a base was a Morgans IPA and I haven't used one before and I'm not sure if it has Amarillo in it.



Impressive beer. I couldn't tell it was from a kit, not that I'm an AG snob. Some of my best beers were/are partmash plus kit.


----------



## KoNG

Gough said:


> Dunno 'bout nosebleed Shmick :lol: It wasn't that full on mate!
> Shawn.


Gough, I think you'll find he was referring to previous brews he has done of this style.
(edit: just re read it, maybe gough had tasted the other attempt..? either way i'll just shut up)


I echo what Shmick said regarding his ESB for my Beer......
*DRINK IT @ about 8 - 10*C (any lower and it loses quite a bit of its MO profile)*

EnJOy
KoNG


----------



## Gough

KoNG said:


> Gough said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno 'bout nosebleed Shmick :lol: It wasn't that full on mate!
> Shawn.
> 
> 
> 
> Gough, I think you'll find he was referring to previous brews he has done of this style.
> 
> 
> 
> I echo what Shmick said regarding his ESB for my Beer......
> *DRINK IT @ about 8 - 10*C (any lower and it loses quite a bit of its MO profile)*
> 
> EnJOy
> KoNG
Click to expand...



I was referring to previous versions of his brew as well Kong  

Shawn.


----------



## warrenlw63

From what I can gather here nobody will be fabricating a Marris Otter Ice Beer. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## KoNG

Gough said:


> I was referring to previous versions of his brew as well Kong
> 
> Shawn.



Sorry Shawn  .. you'll note i figured that out just after adding that reply.
Stop talking up your hopping levels Shmick h34r:


----------



## Gough

KoNG said:


> Gough said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was referring to previous versions of his brew as well Kong
> 
> Shawn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Shawn  .. you'll note i figured that out just after adding that reply.
> Stop talking up your hopping levels Shmick
Click to expand...


:lol: :lol: 

My memory of it was that it definitely wasn't _lacking_ in hops... but it wasn't nose-bleed territory. Bit hard on yerself mate. 

Shawn.


----------



## Stuster

I've had 5 of the beers so far. I gave some feedback to Linz in person so here are the rest. Fairly short, but hopefully of some use. Personal taste only.

*Doc's Irish Red*
Nice red colour. Good carbonation and head. Perfect appearance altogether. Thick body, probably a good example of the style but a little too sweet for my tastes.

*Stephen's Special Bitter*
Good head. Overcarbonated. Light colour. Some herbal aroma and flavour. There was an unusual aroma and flavour to this beer that I couldn't really describe (not very helpful I know.) I know it was an AG beer, but I found myself wondering if it was an extract beer, partly due to the fairly thin body. Sorry that my review can't be more specific, but I couldn't work out what the flavour/aroma was.

*T.D.'s Boston Lager*
Good head. Perfect carbonation. Good clarity. Honey aroma at first, slightly softening as the drink went on. Clean, crisp flavour, slightly floral. Medium body. I enjoyed this beer, T.D. An easy drinker with nice crispness and some floral flavour.

*Nifty's California Common*
Again, good head, carbonation to style, slight haze. Gentle, minty flavour (from the NB hops I presume). My notes on this finish here, but I remember I really enjoyed this beer. Great beer and very nice yeast which is currently continuing its work on a steam beer I made on the weekend. This was the first beer of this style I've had and I'm glad I liked it as I had already got all the ingredients together.


----------



## Doc

*Stusters Dubbel*

Had the pleasure of Stusters Dubbel last night.
Poured cleanly, but with minimal to no head. Good level of carbonation though and a great deep burgundy hue.
Appears to be a little chill haze as well. Not a lot of hop aroma going on, but then that is expected for a Dubbel.
First taste I got some higher alcohols that maybe due to a highish fermentation temp ?
Good body, nice residual sweetness with some low level belgian flavours coming through.
As it warmed up the chill haze receeded slightly and the higher alcohols seemed to diminish. Also a few more flavours became evident.
I really enjoyed this one Stuster, and am happy I have another bottle to savour again later.

Beers,
Doc


----------



## Stuster

Glad you enjoyed it, Doc.  

It was actually fermented a bit too cold actually as it was fermented outside at the start of the colder period. Could probably have been fermented a bit warmer to give more of the Belgian flavour to it. It's good to go now from Doc's review. Drink warmer is a good idea. Ratebeer reckon 12-14 for this style. :blink:


----------



## Keith the Beer Guy

Thanks for the feedback about the beer Shmick and Stickler.

I gotta agree with you Stickler - the tasting and thinking about the tasting is a heap of fun, and I'm certainly enjoying the process.

Had the chance to share a couple more ales on the weekend with a few people.

*Kongs Bitter*

The aroma was malt with an out of place note. At the time I thought the aroma had a solventy note. Others with me suggested burnt rubber.

The beer presented very well. Clear copper coloured capped with a white head.

The beer had malt sweetness and earthy flavours with a dry finish.

Low/medium carbonation.

Overall it was a very drinkable beer, lacking a little bitterness for style.

Thanks for the drop.

*Trent's IPA*

Let me say Fuggles, Fuggles, Fuggles.

Enjoyed your IPA trent. Aroma was malt and fuggles. The bitterness was good but I suffered from some hop astringency, perhaps a little too much hop as a taste addition (for style at any rate).

However, one of my drinking buddies, namely Dr Dan, was a huge fan. Bring on the hops!

Sorry for the crapiness of this review. Was too busy socialising and not taking enough notes. I apologise in person next BJCP get together.

Thanks,

Keith


----------



## KoNG

Keith the Beer Guy said:


> *Kongs Bitter*
> 
> The aroma was malt with an out of place note. At the time I thought the aroma had a solventy note. Others with me suggested burnt rubber.
> 
> The beer presented very well. Clear copper coloured capped with a white head.
> 
> The beer had malt sweetness and earthy flavours with a dry finish.
> 
> Low/medium carbonation.
> 
> Overall it was a very drinkable beer, lacking a little bitterness for style.
> 
> Thanks for the drop.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Keith



Hi Kieth, that doesnt sound to good at all... i definately didn't add any "michelin - low profiles" into the last 10min of the boil... :lol: i had a few extra bottles left over from that brew and have had 2 or 3 in the last couple of weeks, put it this way.. i'm not overly happy with the way it turned out <_< (i think i needed to mash 1-2*C higher and maybe up the flavour additions) but i havent noted any solvent/rubber. I think i have one bottle left, so i wil crack it tonight - give it another go and take note.
sorry about the rubber. (hopefully it was just your bottle..!?!?!  ) 

Cheers
KoNG

ps. i have had a few beers now, so i'll try and get some comments up on board tonight.


----------



## Barry

Good day
Had Stickler's Bitter/APA last night. Really enjoyed it.

Appearance: Gold/dark gold, very clear, fairly good head, low+ carbonation. Looks inviting.

Aroma: Citrus hop (cascade), clean malt with caramel coming through, good balance for style.

Flavour: Fairly rich malt with caramel coming through, citrus hop flavour builds up well, finish is medium malt with some lingering cascade bitterness, low medium carbonation. very good balance of hops and malt.

Mouthfeel: smooth, soft with medium body and enough carbonation to support flavour.

Overall: Really liked this APA, very drinkable. reminds me of subdued LCPA. A very good APA without being extreme.

38+/50. You might give this less in a comp re the high hop bitterness, flavour and aroma expected for the style but I like it the way it is for drinking a pint or two. A very good home brewer I know, who has won many awards for his APA, use to a make high hopped version for comps but drank a more subdued version at home. Hope this makes sense, matter of personal taste in the end. :beer:


----------



## berapnopod

...with apologies to Borrett...

*PoMo's English Bitter*

Aroma: Papery/perfumy aroma with a bit of toffee malt underneath. Some esters. Little to none hops.

Appearance: Red/brown. Clear. Very thin head.

Flavour: Strong harsh and vinuous flavour that hits you in the nose. No hop flavour. Some malt in there that is characteristic of extract malt, but more pronounced than usual. Bitterness is miedium to low and could be a bit higher for a bitter. Finish is puzzling. Its dry, slightly bitter, also cloying and a touch sour.

Mouthfeel: Medium body ( a bit full for a bitter?). Low carbonation - just right. Pronounced warming that initially hits you in the nose, suggestive of higher alcohols (high fermentation temp?)

Overall: OK, so you reckon there's something wrong with this beer, PoMo? Well, lets see what evidence we have: papery aroma. No hop aroma or flavour. Vinuous, with a slightly harsh warming character, cloying finish. Most of those (paper,no hops, vinouos) point towards oxidation. Pretty strong too. Not sure why it is cloying but there might be something else going on in there that I can't identify. Its difficult to comment on your recipe because the oxidation has killed the hops and so its hard to see what it could have been. Sorry to sound so negative. But I hope this helps for next time!


Berp.


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## Doc

*Kungy AIPA*

Tight white head on a deep golden ale. 
Great nose of American hops.
Nice crisp very clean beer. Lots of hop bitterness, flavour and aroma.
If there was anything to detract from it for me, was the dry finish. Probably just me, but I like a slightly more sweet finish in my hoppy beers. 
That isn't to say I didn't enjoy it though. I have throughly enjoyed it. A very well made beer. Very enjoyable.

Beers,
Doc


----------



## PostModern

berapnopod said:


> Vinuous, with a slightly harsh warming character, cloying finish. Most of those (paper,no hops, vinouos) point towards oxidation. Pretty strong too. Not sure why it is cloying but there might be something else going on in there that I can't identify.



I don't want to drag this thread down with discussion of the beer that could have been, so I'll try and keep future comments to PM. I think what you say here makes something sing out to me. The beer tasted fine coming straight from secondary to a sampling glass. I always sample from the spiggot before racking to the bottling bucket to see if all is well, and, as usual, it was. As I have not bottled for some time, I have not used the hose I use for racking to the bottling bucket for some time as the one I use for kegging is a lot shorter. It seems feasible to me that my old bottling hose doesn't sit as snug inside the tap as it used to. Perhaps it was sucking air in, in enormous quantity, as I racked from secondary to the bottling bucket? This would account for the massive oxidisation that was not present anywhere before the bottle...

Apologies for harping on.

Now, as it is Friday night, I'll be sampling 3 case beers. I have HardMans Golden Sarz Pilsner. Whose is that? And one labelled JB. Is this James Boag? Who is James Boag?

Already tried PoL's Dortmunder, I will post reviews on tonight's brews tomorrow.

Cheers,
PoMo.

EDIT: typo


----------



## Josh

PostModern said:


> And one labelled JB. Is this James Boag? Who is James Boag?
> 
> Cheers,
> PoMo.


JB is me. Already put my hand up for poor labelling. Will be fixed for next time if I am lucky enough to get in.

I have tried a few of the beers and will post my thoughts soon. Currently looking at the last inch of TDs Boston Lager. Don't want to finish it as I am loving this beer.


----------



## PostModern

*Josh's Pilsner*

Poured a nice pale amber. Slightly overcarbonated, so I had to pour into three glasses and wait for head to settle. Still drinking this as I type.

Excellent pils malt aroma. Nice and rich that aroma. I take a whiff every sip.

Apart from the carbonation, this is a nice sipping beer. Personally I would have lots more late hops, to balance the malt, but am really enjoying this. Maybe some more Caramalt would not go astray (not looking at your recipe, just basing this on taste).

Not bad at all for a first AG.


----------



## PostModern

*pint of lager's Dortmunder export*

Poured a deep copper colour. Also a bit over carbonated (seems to be a case theme ). Once settled, formed a moussy head. Nice aroma of hops, malt and some yeasty notes as well. Slightly hazy when poured, which I put down to the yeast getting out of floc with the carbonation. A little yeast carried into the flavour but didn't detract too much from the malt and hops. Flavour nice and balanced, with a medium body. Very morish. My wife really enjoyed it. She said it reminded her of the beers she drank in the beer gardens of Germany. My son also enjoyed a little taste and asked for a whole glass  A really nice drop only spoiled by the carbonation. Thanks PoL!


----------



## PostModern

*DrewCarey84's Pilsner*

Poured very clear with a few yeast clumps in the second glass (I guess I tried to squeeze too much out of the bottle). A harsh yeasty aroma like say Toohey's New or VB. No malt or hop aroma. Flavour was clean with no discernable malt or hop. I'm assuming a high adjunct rate as the body was also quite thin, but a... ?? sliminess... maybe from maltodextrin? This beer could have done with more malt and hops and I didn't really like the finish because of the slimey mouthfeel and possibly the kit yeast. No signs of infection, cleanly fermented but lacking in "oomph" to make it stand out. Not a bad beer, but not a great one. 

I hope you get some good results with your newly found passion for partial mashes, DC. Seems you have the fermentation side down pat.

Well, that ends my Friday night 3.

Cheers,
PoMo.


----------



## T.D.

I've tried a few beers so far. I figured I'd wait and give my comments for a few beers at a time so now is that time...

*Linz's Scottish Stag:* Its been said before but the carbonation was too high. In fact it kind of made it difficult to dig down to the flavours that lay beneath. There was some nice malt, but a kind of harsh, almost astringent edge to the flavour. This wouldn't have been helped by the high carbonation of course. Not a bad beer but I must say it doesn't make me want to run off and buy a Grumpy's masterbrew!  

*Doc's Irish Red:* Very nice beer. Really well balanced between the malt and bitterness and a great colour. Also was nice to be able to pour it down to the last drop (gotta get me a counter pressure bottle filler!).

*Stephen's Special Bitter:* An enjoyable beer but lacked in hop flavour and bitterness for the style in my opinion. Still went down very nicely mind you! Great colour - definitely had that quintessential English Ale look about it.

*Barry's Robust Porter:* My favourite so far, and I am not usually a big drinker of porters. Beautiful tan coloured head - almost looked like the crema of a coffee! Plenty of body (especially given the 65deg mash temp). Carbonation was spot on. This was a really well brewed beer - you can tell it was brewed with a lot of attention to detail and carefully chosen ingredients etc. I know its probably not traditionally the done thing with this style, but being a hop-crazed brewer I would have liked some more hop flavour/aroma, but geez it was bloody nice as is!

I am just about to crack open Nifty's Californian Common. Looking forward to it - I have only ever tried this style once and it was in North America.


----------



## pint of lager

Have just opened another bottle of my swap beer and it is overcarbonated. Could everyone please check their bottles, release some of the pressure and keep them somewhere safe.


----------



## T.D.

POL, is it ready to drink? I might throw it in the fridge if it is and try it next...

I am onto my last few mls of *Nifty's Californian Common* and I am wishing it wasn't so! This is a great beer! As I said, my experience with beers in this style is limited, but I am really enjoying this brew! The carbonation is perfect, and its as clear as crystal! Yet another user of the No Chiller Method who is getting perfectly clear beers! The flavour is great - plenty of body (probably helped by the significant amount of Munich in the grain bill) and the hopping is perfect for an every day drinking beer. Head retention is very good also. I have only about 1cm left in my glass now and its still got a few mm of head and nice lacing on the glass. Well brewed Nifty!


----------



## Gerard_M

I was fortunate to score a few extras from the swap case that I have tried over the past week. POL's was a gusher, so was a blank bottle marked JB on the crown. I really enjoyed T.D's Boston Lager. The non-brewers that tried it were very impressed. I also had another bottle of the same brew, but bottled in a Champagne bottle. Interesting to note the effect that the "Punt" in the base of the bottle had on the beer. Lesson learnt.

I am drinking a Ten Inch Porter whilst watching the Rugby. Interesting beer. Very nicely put together.

Cheers
Gerard


----------



## Trent

Gday
First up, very interested to hear the lesson Gerard leanr on the effect the "punt" has in the champers bottle. Can you enlighten us?!?

Anyway, tried BARRY'S ROBUST PORTER the other night. It had a roasty malt aroma, with coffee and dark chocolate, with low fruity esters, and a low hop aroma. There was no deacetyl or any other faults. Almost opaque, but was jet black with ruby highlights and good clarity when held to the light. Dense tan head dissipated fairly quickly in my glass. The flavour was a very roasty maltiness, with coffee or roasted coffee beans a strong flavour, and a slightly metallic flavour at the end, possible the yeast. Medium bitterness lingers into the aftertaste along with the roastiness. Moderate fruity esters, balanced towards the malt. It is (if this makes sense) reasonably dry due to the roasted malts, but still finished medium sweet. Low carbonation, and a medium body that seems a little thinner due to the slight roast malt astringency (to style), witha moderate alcohol warmth.
Overall, it is quite a nice drop, and obviously well crafted. But for mine, the roastiness is a little too high, lending a slight astringency that makes it something I couldnt drink all night. Possibly ferment cooler next time, to reduce fruity esters. Fits into style well, though I would prefer more maltiness from the base malt. If I were to try and suggest improvements, it would be to reduce some of the specialty malts, to make it less roasty, even though that is to style. I felt there were a little too many malts in there, I like to keep my beers simpler. That said, though, you have obviously gone to alot of trouble and time to get a recipe that you are happy with (and also, as Kieth mentioned, had the recipe published) and done well in comps with it. I am just not into that astringency from the roasted malts so much. At the end of the day, I am not the one drinking it all the time, so take my "improvements" with a grain (or three) of salt. I gave it 38.5/50
All the best
Trent


----------



## MHB

Re: - Barrys Robust Porter

I was lucky enough to get a couple of bonus bottles from the case one was Barrys robust porter, we had this beer at our BJCP training day.

The average score was 43.5 the range was 42 to 45.
Any criticisms/observations were personal preference rather than stylistic.
I dont think I could suggest any way to improve this beer except in ways that suit an individual pallet.

On a personal note;

Barry I am glad I am not entering any robust porters in any comps any time soon, I think my best would come out looking very second best.

One spectacular drop - dont change it - go commercial I will buy lots.

Thanks for a memorable beer.

MHB


----------



## Trent

Ah, MHB, so THAT was the last beer I tried at the BJCP before I was whisked away by the mrs and a mate, to get back to his house in time for the second half of the rugby (where we lost miserably by about 20 points). In light of that, as I didnt finish my scoresheet, I was on the way to about 42/50. The only change in that, after having a whole bottle, was personal taste, rather than anything else, so I shouldnt have marked ya lower, but I did :blink: . Great beer none the less. Speaking of great beers...

NIFTY'S CALIFORNIA COMMON
Malty sweetness in the aroma, some caramel with a firm hop aroma, which is hard to describe, but would probably fit under minty (very slight mintiness) and woody? Low fruity esters. It was a very appealing aroma, almost ale like, but still clean and malty. Exactly like the style intended, I do believe. A deep amber to copper in colour, with an orange hue (but my loungeroom light has an orange shade over it, so that may have been it). It was clear, but not brilliant, and it had a low white head, possibly due to low carbonation. The flavour was quite clean, and had a firm maltiness with a caramel quality to it. The hop flavour is almost piney (couldnt taste any mint, and as far as style goes, I am buggered if I know what "rustic" tastes like!) and quite nice. The bitterness is firm, med/high maybe, though not as pronounced as I would have expected from the style guidelines, and is in good balance with the malt. The aftertaste is a nice blend of bitterness, malt and hop flavour, with a low hint of fruity esters, but finishes a little sweeter than style demands. It has a medium-high body with a med-low carbonation, quite a creamy mouthfeel with a low alcohol warmth.
Overall, it is a very nice beer, one that exemplifies the style well, though IMO it is probably a little too full bodied and a bit too sweet as far as the style goes. I really, really enjoyed this beer, and have the yeast spinning away on my stir plate, to make one next weekend. My only suggestion to improve this beer would be to increase the carbonation, as it was almost English ale level, more on the low side of med-low. I think that this could solve my 2 major complaints, by drying out the finish a little, and crisping up some of the residual sweetness. I could be wrong, but tasting some of the overcarbed beers I (and others) have done over the last few years, they seem dryer and crisper than ever intended due to higher carbonation.
Anyway, well done, and thanks for sharing, I gave it 37.5/50
All the best
Trent
EDIT - Apparently I am on crack. The additional carbonation will not only dry it out, and crisp it up a little, but also lower the perception of body (my other "major" complaint) by making it taste a little thinner


----------



## T.D.

A couple more...

*Stickler's Pale Ale:* At first I found this one a little lacking in body, but after I got into the second glass I was really enjoying it. In fact the second half of the second glass seemed to disappear without me even realising! Good hop flavour (tasted like Cascade to me) but as always with me more would be better!  All in all not a bad drop at all. There was some kind of weird characteristic that was overpowering the whole flavour. The closest thing I can compare it to was a beer I did a while back that was brewed too warm (25deg+). In fact it was also an APA style and was quite similar. That was the only negative in my eyes, other than that it was a very nice beer.

*PoMo's Bitter:* I must say after reading some comments so far about this beer I didn't have particularly high hopes. But I was pleasantly surprised. It has a kind of sharp edge to the flavour and kind of an oxidised nose, but other than that I think its just fine. The aroma reminds me of an old red wine (a bit musty) which usually points to oxidation in some form. The flavour is quite good though I think. It may not be perfect but its not a basket case by any means!


----------



## Trent

Gday 
Just finished SCHMICKS ESB while watching the sunday arvo league. It had a clean malt aroma, caramelly and biscuity, with a low hop aroma, and low fruity esters. There was also a little yeast aroma in there. It was a deep copper in colour, very clear, with a low white head/ When tasting, there were caramel notes to the maltiness, some yeast flavour, and a med/high bitterness that cuts through the maltiness quite nicely, though I would like to taste the malt a LITTLE more, as the finish is fairly dry, due to the use of black malt (?) for colour correction? Possibly chocolate malt, as there is the SLIGHTEST hint of chocolate in the flavour? Whatever it is, it makes for a dry finish. There are moderate fruity esters, and low hop flavour. The balance is decidedly bitter, and bitterness lingers into the aftertaste. No diacetyl, no off flavours. The body was med-light, with med-low carbonation and a low alcohol warmth. There is very little creaminess, due to the dryness of the finish, but its JUST there (my mrs picked that for me, and the chocolate flavour).
Overall, this is a very nice beer that I thoroughly enjoyed. Quite drinkable due to the low-ish body, and dry finish. My suggestions for improvements (or what I would do), would be add some more (or bigger) late addition hops, to increase hop flavour, and change the black malt portion a little. If you are using 50g of black malt, maybe use 25 or 20g, and then 100g of dark crystal (245ebc) to give a little more sweetness to the finish (and malt flavour) lightening the colour a touch, but still keeping it reasonably dry. This tastes similar, yet bigger, than my first attempt at an ordinary bitter. I have since dropped my 50g black malt, and replaced it with 200g of crystal 245 (on top of my crystal 145), and it tastes great to me. Anyway, this was a very good beer, I wish I had another bottle, and I gave it 41.5/50
All the best
Trent
EDIT - Just looked at your recipe. I was shocked to see flaked Maize, I certainly couldnt taste that! And it is choc malt (dont ya hate it when the Mrs is right?) Anyway, I would at least double your late hop additions, but that is just me. If ya dont mind me asking, why flaked maize? T.


----------



## berapnopod

*Doc's "Aidan's Irish Red"*

Aroma: Medium aroma overall with an emphasis on malt. The malt character is smooth, with a hint of toffee. I think there's also some diacetyl in there too. The hops are noticeable but in the background and lend a good complexity to the aroma - slightly earthy.

Appearance: Head is thin and lasting, supported by medium carbonation. head colour is a light tan and the bubbles are fine. Colour is a beautiful deep red. Clarity is close to brilliant.

Flavour: Flavour tends to be hop dominated with the hop flavour coming through first and finishing off with an assertive bitterness. Hope flavour is again quite earthy. Underlying malt character is somewhat masked by a high carbonation. Finish is dry and bitter and clean.

Mouthfeel: Medium bosy. Carbonation is high and gives a foamy mouth that masks other characteristics of the beer. A little astrongent which is probably a result of the high hopping rate?

Overall: The beer has a very enticing aroma. The flavour is Earthy and hoppy. Overall it is a great drop! But I would like to suggest a couple of minor tweaks for the next recipe: First, teh carbonatin is on the high side, second is the bitterness appears to be on the high side too. The second point is not so clear since it could also be a carbonation bite increasing the apparent bitterness.
As it stands it is a very distinctive beer and I guess I am just pointing out things that seem out of whack with the Irish Red style. So if you want to brew an Irish Red, bring down the hops and carbonation. If not, its great as it is! I'm thinking that also the malty/caramel could be increased. Perhaps boiling a bit of the first runnings could help with this? Or chuck a couple of red hot rocks in the boil? 


Berp.


----------



## nifty

Ok, at last, I've finally had a chance to try a couple of these beers.

Sorry about the poor descriptions, these are just my impressions...

Barry's Robust Porter - This is what my porters want to be like when they grow up, a really flavour filled beer. Really enjoyed this one.

Stephens Special Bitter - A bit overcorbonated. I thought this beer had a spicy taste ??, dunno, hard to describe, but a good drinking beer. 

Doc's Irish Red Ale - Really nice. Very smooth. When I took the first sip, I was unsure about it, but I kept sipping and thinking this is a really tasty beer. I was very dissappointed when I got to the end of the bottle, I wanted more..

cheers

nifty


----------



## Josh

PostModern said:


> *Josh's Pilsner*
> 
> Not bad at all for a first AG.



Ummm not my first AG. First decoction mash.


----------



## PostModern

T.D. said:


> *PoMo's Bitter:* I must say after reading some comments so far about this beer I didn't have particularly high hopes. But I was pleasantly surprised. It has a kind of sharp edge to the flavour and kind of an oxidised nose, but other than that I think its just fine. The aroma reminds me of an old red wine (a bit musty) which usually points to oxidation in some form. The flavour is quite good though I think. It may not be perfect but its not a basket case by any means!



I think it may be improving as the yeast scrubs the oxygen out of the bottle. Thanks for braving a taste.



Josh said:


> Ummm not my first AG. First decoction mash.



Apologies. I was misinformed. Decoction explains the huge malty taste. Worth the effort, imho.


----------



## Thommo

Tried a tester of mine on Saturday night. It's ready. Can already see room for improvement, could be better, but pretty happy with it considering it was my first AG.

(You could have been thinking of me PoMo.)


----------



## shmick

Trent said:


> EDIT - Just looked at your recipe. I was shocked to see flaked Maize, I certainly couldnt taste that! And it is choc malt (dont ya hate it when the Mrs is right?) Anyway, I would at least double your late hop additions, but that is just me. If ya dont mind me asking, why flaked maize? T.



Thanks for the kind words Trent - glad you enjoyed it.

This recipe is still work in progress. The previous version had a very heavy body, a slightly astringent hop flavour (which does fade to a nice smoothness given time) and a mildly cloying finish. I guess I just over corrected with this one.

I used the flaked maize (no name cornflakes actually) to thin the body a little, backed off (halved) the mid boil & 10 min hop additions and substituted caramunich for caramel malt to dry the finish. It is a little darker than intended but not by much.
Sounds like I should have stuck to the original. :chug:


----------



## T.D.

Shmick,

Its funny you should mention "astringent hop flavour". I noticed you have Challenger hops in the recipe. I have made a few beers in the past were I used a large amount of challenger and I got quite a harsh astringent flavour as a result. Did you use challenger in your previous effort? This hop variety has always frustrated me because it smells so damned good in its raw form, but I have never gotten a beer to yield those same characteristics. The more I used the more astringency I seemed to get. Anyway, it may not have anything to do with your experience but I just thought it was worth a mention.


----------



## DrewCarey82

Tried one of mine on the weekend fellas and to my alarm it looks like morgans have stuffed me up big time, its got Pride of Ringwood in it.

Even though the finishing hops clearly stated that it was Saaz.

Normally its a great beer so pretty pissed off that they've stuffed it up for me!

Next swap I'll make it up to you's.


----------



## Samwise Gamgee

Can you taste the POR?


----------



## DrewCarey82

Very much so mate, I squeezed down a schooner and chucked the other half......

Give it a try though it might be to your taste, never know, but to me was revolting.


----------



## T.D.

*Nooch's Dark Mild:* Bloody awesome. I have a mild bubbling away in the fermenter as I type and drinking this beer has made me feel very happy about it! :beerbang: This beer reminds me a lot of Kent Old Brown, one of my favouritest beers that you (unfortunately) rarely see these days. The body is light (as you would expect for a 3.4% beer) but certainly not in a bad way. I would be happy to drink this all night long. Nothing is out of place - its balanced beautifully between malt, bitterness and hop flavour. All I can hope is that my one in the fermenter ends up as enjoyable as this one. Well brewed Nooch!

I have KoNG's bitter in the fridge. It should get a run later in the evening...


----------



## T.D.

Nooch, I don't see your recipe in the recipes database. I'd be interested in having a look if you are willing to part with it!


----------



## KoNG

DrewCarey82 said:


> Tried one of mine on the weekend fellas and to my alarm it looks like morgans have stuffed me up big time, its got Pride of Ringwood in it.
> 
> Even though the finishing hops clearly stated that it was Saaz.
> 
> Normally its a great beer so pretty pissed off that they've stuffed it up for me!
> 
> Next swap I'll make it up to you's.



Dont stress it DC82, PoR is still a decent hop.. Coopers use it with great results..!
I always found that finishing hops in a kit are fairly muted anyway... although if you have made the beer before and it was saaz, i dont think they would have changed the hops on you, maybe it was just a different fermenting regime or the like.


----------



## Gough

T.D. said:


> *Nooch's Dark Mild:* Bloody awesome. I have a mild bubbling away in the fermenter as I type and drinking this beer has made me feel very happy about it! This beer reminds me a lot of Kent Old Brown, one of my favouritest beers that you (unfortunately) rarely see these days. The body is light (as you would expect for a 3.4% beer) but certainly not in a bad way. I would be happy to drink this all night long. Nothing is out of place - its balanced beautifully between malt, bitterness and hop flavour. All I can hope is that my one in the fermenter ends up as enjoyable as this one. Well brewed Nooch!
> 
> I have KoNG's bitter in the fridge. It should get a run later in the evening...




I liked Nooch's beer as well TD, but he wouldn't believe me when I told him  It isn't a bad drop at all mate... Well brewed.

Just to further this thread's sudden turn to the positive, I'd like to add my voice to the chorus of appreciation of Barry's Porter. Bloody lovely beer :beerbang: Chocolaty goodness with a textbook dryish finish and a head you could stand a 20 cent piece in right to the bottom of the glass. Seriously good stuff Barry. Some slight 'hot' alcohol, but only very slight. Perhaps a warmish pitch? This is the most minor criticism though of what is far and away the best beer I've had from either of the two Xmas cases I've been part of. There was some criticism of the 'roastiness' of this brew... All I can say is if they thought this was too roasty they should stay away from my Dry Stout.  

Top darts Barry. A really great Porter. My new benchmark for this style  

Shawn.


----------



## nifty

I had a few more from the case tonight - 

T.D.'s Boston Lager - A top beer, looks good - a great colour, tastes great. Another one that I wanted more of..

Stickler's - Top drop, I really enjoyed this beer, I was sad to see the end of it.

PoMo's English bitter - After the prevoius reviews of this beer, I wasn't sure what to expect, but I thought this beer tasted bloody good.

Thanks

nifty


----------



## T.D.

KoNG's bitter is now safely in my belly. I have recently become a huge fan of Styrian Goldings and this beer has just reaffirmed that. And geez it definitely opens up when you let it warm up a bit. the last couple of mouthfulls of each glass were the ones when I found myself almost uncontrolably saying out aloud "shit that's a good beer". The hop characters just seemed to jump out in those last few sips. Anyway, plenty of character in this brew, none of which was out of place. I saw a comment previously that there was some burnt rubber characters in the beer. I may not have a perfect palate but I certainly didn't see anything that resembled burnt rubber - it was smooth all the way. A really well crafted ale KoNG, my only disappointment is that I don't have another bottle!

Tonight was bloody great - Nooch's mild before dinner, which was a winner. Then my folks came over for a roast and I polished off KoNG's bitter over the meal. My dad had a taste of the bitter and was very impressed. Its always a good sign when even a non-brewer can't get enough. Unfortunately for him though a taste was all he was getting!


----------



## Weizguy

Nice roasty, chocolatey nose, with a hint of diacetyl. No hops evident.
Colour looks good for a porter, and good clarity, thanks to the W1318 yeast and some time.
The head is thin, yet persistent.
Low carbonation, which is within the style.
Slightly thin dry mouthfeel with a whack of chocolate and roast. Lingering bitterness from the roast and hop bitterness. Perhaps an astringency due to the roastiness. Possible taste of stale hops.

Yep, my Porter is now carbonated and drinkable, if a little dry. I was thinking that it may be closer to a dry stout, esp at 5.7% alc/vol.

As long as it's had time to settle, open yours soon, unless you're saving it for the yeast.
I don't reckon it'll get any better.
It was based on Gerard's recipe from Paddy's. Hope he could recognise it.
The different yeast and long secondary ferment may have something to do with the dryness.
I'm getting a pleasant aftertaste of EKG hops, once the roasty bitterness fades.

I'd love to make this again, with the right yeast.

Seth.  

Review of Weizguy's Teninchbrewery Porter.
I like the giraffe pic. I bet that it was an allusion to Gerard's saying of "meet you by the giraffes". And, aren't giraffe tongues blue? Is the label also poking the tongue out at Bluetongue Brewery as the giraffe has a bigger tongue than their lizard?

One more thing. How can the beer be made from all Ozzie ingredients when the yeast is British via the U.S.? Hmmmmm????


----------



## Gerard_M

Weizguy said:


> Nice roasty, chocolatey nose, with a hint of diacetyl. No hops evident.
> Colour looks good for a porter, and good clarity, thanks to the W1318 yeast and some time.
> The head is thin, yet persistent.
> Low carbonation, which is within the style.
> Slightly thin dry mouthfeel with a whack of chocolate and roast. Lingering bitterness from the roast and hop bitterness. Perhaps an astringency due to the roastiness. Possible taste of stale hops.
> 
> Yep, my Porter is now carbonated and drinkable, if a little dry. I was thinking that it may be closer to a dry stout, esp at 5.7% alc/vol.
> 
> As long as it's had time to settle, open yours soon, unless you're saving it for the yeast.
> I don't reckon it'll get any better.
> It was based on Gerard's recipe from Paddy's. Hope he could recognise it.
> The different yeast and long secondary ferment may have something to do with the dryness.
> I'm getting a pleasant aftertaste of EKG hops, once the roasty bitterness fades.
> 
> I'd love to make this again, with the right yeast.
> 
> Seth.




I thought it was getting close to the Dry Stout, (Jazza Fish knows how to spot the difference between these two styles  ), but I was struggling to pick that as a beer based on my Choc Porter recipe. The Roast dominates with a little astringency. Try using Roasted Wheat Malt next time. The Choc Porter at Paddy's was 4.8%Alc/Vol, so that was a bit off. The colour was too dark, closer to the Gearin Porter we had on tap up in Katoomba.

Apart from that I really enjoyed this beer. It did everything a Black beer should do. It would have been great with a Double Belgian Chocolate Ice Cream sandwich.
Cheers
Gerard


----------



## shmick

T.D. said:


> Shmick,
> 
> Its funny you should mention "astringent hop flavour". I noticed you have Challenger hops in the recipe. I have made a few beers in the past were I used a large amount of challenger and I got quite a harsh astringent flavour as a result. Did you use challenger in your previous effort? This hop variety has always frustrated me because it smells so damned good in its raw form, but I have never gotten a beer to yield those same characteristics. The more I used the more astringency I seemed to get. Anyway, it may not have anything to do with your experience but I just thought it was worth a mention.



I suspected my astringent flavours came from using hops that were a little past their best by date.
I agree that challanger has a fantastic aroma but I leaned more towards the EKG for the late additions, relying on the challanger more for bittering.
IMO they make a pretty good combination.


----------



## PostModern

PostModern said:


> *DrewCarey84's Pilsner*
> 
> Poured very clear with a few yeast clumps in the second glass (I guess I tried to squeeze too much out of the bottle). A harsh yeasty aroma like say Toohey's New or VB. No malt or hop aroma. Flavour was clean with no discernable malt or hop. I'm assuming a high adjunct rate as the body was also quite thin, but a... ?? sliminess... maybe from maltodextrin? This beer could have done with more malt and hops and I didn't really like the finish because of the slimey mouthfeel and possibly the kit yeast. No signs of infection, cleanly fermented but lacking in "oomph" to make it stand out. Not a bad beer, but not a great one.
> 
> I hope you get some good results with your newly found passion for partial mashes, DC. Seems you have the fermentation side down pat.






DrewCarey82 said:


> Tried one of mine on the weekend fellas and to my alarm it looks like morgans have stuffed me up big time, its got Pride of Ringwood in it.
> 
> Even though the finishing hops clearly stated that it was Saaz.
> 
> Normally its a great beer so pretty pissed off that they've stuffed it up for me!
> 
> Next swap I'll make it up to you's.



I don't think there were _any_ finishing hops in it. The aroma reminds me of stressed yeast, perhaps underpitched? It was quite sweet, so overbitterness is not there either. Anyway, we'll see what others think of it. I wonder if Berp's palate is ready for it


----------



## DrewCarey82

Post Modern.

With the finishing hops it came with 2 in the bag of Saaz I brought.

This is not the norm, normally its 1 bag per packet.

I made 2 batch's one for myself 1 for the XMAS case, my one turned out fine with a nice Saaz flavour.

However the one for the XMAS case that I tried had what I thought was a very, very bitter flavour which to me had tones of POR that I'd tasted in my Draughts where I'd used finishing hops for that - except way, way bitterer(If theres such a word)

I'd never had a problem with the yeast thats come with Morgans kits b4 so I doubt that would be the problem.


----------



## Stuster

I agree with PoMo. To my tastes, this was not bitter at all. I'd say it was lacking in hops myself. I really like your review PoMo. I was struggling to think exactly how to describe the beer and reading your review I found my head nodding in agreement. Very useful. I didn't get any yeast clumps so no real yeastiness either. A clean beer, but lacking something _ for my tastebuds only_.


----------



## DrewCarey82

I'll agree with one thing, for Porters, Stouts and Ales they definately seem to be a lot more dimensial and tastier then my kits I used to do, hopefully my partials shall add another dimension to what I've brewed so far.


----------



## n00ch

Thanks for the feedback TD (and also schmick previously). I will make sure i put the recipe in tonight for you.

As Gough backed up I really wasn't a big fan of it. But hey it was my first go at a mild so i suppose it wasn't to bad. Atleast i now know where i can improve on it.

Cheers


----------



## Samwise Gamgee

DrewCarey82 said:


> Post Modern.
> 
> With the finishing hops it came with 2 in the bag of Saaz I brought.
> 
> This is not the norm, normally its 1 bag per packet.
> 
> I made 2 batch's one for myself 1 for the XMAS case, my one turned out fine with a nice Saaz flavour.
> 
> However the one for the XMAS case that I tried had what I thought was a very, very bitter flavour which to me had tones of POR that I'd tasted in my Draughts where I'd used finishing hops for that - except way, way bitterer(If theres such a word)
> 
> I'd never had a problem with the yeast thats come with Morgans kits b4 so I doubt that would be the problem.



Finishing hops aren't going to make your beer bitter.

Did you boil them? Or throw them in the fermenter? If you threw them in the fermenter then they will add aroma.


----------



## DrewCarey82

Samwise Gamgee said:


> DrewCarey82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Post Modern.
> 
> With the finishing hops it came with 2 in the bag of Saaz I brought.
> 
> This is not the norm, normally its 1 bag per packet.
> 
> I made 2 batch's one for myself 1 for the XMAS case, my one turned out fine with a nice Saaz flavour.
> 
> However the one for the XMAS case that I tried had what I thought was a very, very bitter flavour which to me had tones of POR that I'd tasted in my Draughts where I'd used finishing hops for that - except way, way bitterer(If theres such a word)
> 
> I'd never had a problem with the yeast thats come with Morgans kits b4 so I doubt that would be the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finishing hops aren't going to make your beer bitter.
> 
> Did you boil them? Or throw them in the fermenter? If you threw them in the fermenter then they will add aroma.
Click to expand...


Just the simple method, in a cup of boiling water 10 mins b4 and throw in once I am ready to put in yeast.


----------



## Samwise Gamgee

that method should give flavour type effects, not bittering.


----------



## Josh

Okay here's my thoughts on the beers I've tried so far. In no particular order:

*Stephen's Special Bitter*
Looked good in the glass, clear with a good head. Nice malt aroma with some background hops. Well balanced malt and bitterness. Good body. I really liked this beer.

*Nifty's California Common*
Like a few of the reviewers I had never tried this style and had no idea what to expect. Slightly hazy but a nice amber colour. Good hop flavour with some fruitiness. I could have had a few more glasses of this. Well done.

*Barry's Robust Porter*
I'm not really into this amount of roastiness. But it was really well made and looked great. Black with hints of ruby in the light. One of the best in the case no doubt about it.

*Linz' Scottish Ale*
As previously mentioned this beer was highly carbonated. I could detect a decent malt backbone to the beer and with a lower carbonation, I reckon it'd be worth drinking again. Would like to see this one again when it's not so fizzy.

*TD's Boston Lager*
Balanced malt and hop aroma. No head and low/medium carbonation. Nice golden colour. Malt balanced well with the bitterness and solid hop flavour. Citrus and I could taste maybe a touch of passionfruit? Definitely my favourite of the ones I have tried so far. Didn't want this one to end.

I have also tried my own Pilsener. I'm going to continue with the decoction mash. Won't go with the all FWH again though.


----------



## T.D.

*Shmick's ESB:* The first thing I noticed with this one is the ruby red colour - nice! As I poured it into the glass there was a moment when I wondered if it was going to produce a head but sure enough as I let it settle one rose to the surface. It has quite a toffee-like flavour, but not at all in a cloying way. I can see what Shmick is saying about some astringency but only in a very minor way, and it certainly doesn't negatively affect the beer's flavour. In fact, having another taste I am wondering if its not just a bit of alcohol "hotness". Again, it doesn't really impede on the flavour in a bad way. I don't know if anybody has tried the Hopping Mad Brewery "Ale" (the one from Orange) but I find this beer very similar, but a stronger version. All in all I really like this beer. I'd be pretty happy if I made one like this. Nicely brewed Shmick! :super: 

Trent's IPA is next. 70 IBUs and 7.something % alcohol. Can't wait! :chug:


----------



## T.D.

*Trent's IPA:* First thing I noticed was what appears to be American hops in the aroma. Is this a English or American IPA? Who cares anyway - the aroma is great whatever the style! I wouldn't pick this for a 7.4% beer - no alcohol flavours at all. Definitely plenty of body though. I may be detecting something else but I can detect a slightly musty flavour which usually points to some degree of oxidation. Its not particularly bad but its there. The carbonation fairly high but as I recall IPAs are meant to be "sparkling ales" in that they have high carbonation so its not out of style. Head retention is excellent - I am half way down the first glass and there is still a 1/4" of solid head and plenty of lacing on the glass. I just can't get over the aroma - every time I take a sip its there - great stuff! The only potential blemish is the musty-ish flavour - it may be a bad bottle or something though so I don't want to bang on too much about it, I'd be interested in hearing other people's (as well as Trent himself) opinions on this... Overall, I am really enjoying this beer. Funnily enough Trent, its very similar to an IPA I tried in BC while over in Canada recently!


----------



## berapnopod

*Trent's IPA*

Aroma: Hoppy aroma up front (funny that). But I also detect signs of an early stage infection. It smells a bit peppery and a bit salty - like the ocean? Some esters present. No malt.

Appearance: Thick head of medium fine bubbles that looks like it will hang around long after the glass has finished. The head is supported by medium carbonation in the beer itself. Colour is a dark amber and the clarity is good, with a slight touch of haze.

Flavour: POW! An initial hit of hop flavour is what I get, then a whole thumping with hop bitterness. Quickly finishing to a dry, very bitter and moderate astringent flavour. I can again taste what appears to be an early stage infection, but at this level it is not interfering with the flavour too much. Very hard to detect any malt or whatever under the mountain of hops.

Mouthfeel: Medium body, which does not give away the 7.4%ABV (well hidden). There's an assertive astringency that comes from the high hopping rate. The carbonation is medium, and as spot on as I can possibly hope for.

Overall: This is a distinctively bitter beer, and dare I say a little too bitter? I know you can't have an IPA thats too bitter, but it would have been good to see some malt flavours balancing out the hops. Very well attenuated. The "early stage infection" is something thats starting to puzzle me now. It initally came across as quite characteristic of Brettanomyces, but now I am not so sure. It may well be from a hop variety I am not used to, or perhaps old hops? The best I can describe this is like the ocean or perhaps seaweed. Maybe someone else knows whats going on? But overall, I am enjoying the beer, just furrowing my brow at the odd aroma.


Berp.


----------



## Gough

I've also tried Trent's IPA from the case and really enjoyed it. One of my favourites from the case so far. It is certainly a very hoppy beer - more of a double IPA than a 'straight' IPA. I think the body is fine for the style and just holds all those hops together. Certainly hop dominated, but not undrinkably so. I'm not a devotee of enormously hoppy beers as a general rule... I likes me malt  but I enjoyed this a lot. As TD mentioned, it reminded me of the few US craftbrewed IPAs I've had in terms of balance, although I picked up more of an English hop presence than a US one. I didn't pick up any infection, early or otherwise. It is a bottle conditioned beer and I picked up some 'yeastiness', but definitely no infection. Maybe you got a dodgy bottle berp - or maybe I got a good one - but I know an infected beer when I taste it and the bottle I tried wasn't infected. 

I'm sure this beer isn't to everyone's tastes, but I thought it well brewed in that hoppy style. Thanks for sharing it Trent  

Shawn.


----------



## PostModern

*n00ch's Dark Mild*

Poured a deep burgandy colour. In ambient light it appears quite dark brown but backlit with a white light reveals depths of orange and red that make me anticipate the malt. Superbly clear. Looks an absolute treat in a dimpled pint mug. Fine white head that dissipates to a thin cap leaving strands of lace down the glass. Light hop and malt aroma. Some currants? from the roast malt. The flavour is full and malty. Hops and caramel on the back of the palate. This is a _really_ nice beer.
Thanks!


----------



## KoNG

I'm going to start adding my tastings in somewhat of a reverse order to which i consumed them, just because they are fresh in my mind. Tonight was Josh's Pilz.

*JOSH's PILSENER*

First pour was a tall glass of icecream, due to very high carbonation, so the bottle sat in the sink for a few minutes to calm down. After the initial excitement the beer poured a light yellow/straw colour and very clear and obviously quite alive in the glass. Aroma subdued but i could note some noble hops in there. the first sip made me instantly think of Duvel...! it was really nice... especially once the carbonation calmed a little. The body had a nice chewy bight to it. great beer.

KoNG


----------



## KoNG

*n00ch's DARK MILD*

Poured a nice clear brown with a slight purple(?) hue. the nose was a slight roasted caramel malt and balanced hops. Upon tasting i was quite surprised with the overall malt profile gained from the low alc% beer, with the body also displaying these qualities. I really enjoyed this beer and would have loved to get into it with a char-grilled rump steak. yum. (instead i was having fish.. oops)

KoNG


----------



## Trent

Hey guys
Thanks for the positive reviews on my beer, I havent tried it since I sent it off in early June, I was actually gonna wait until I heard alot of the reviews, see if I could pick up on anything that people found in there, and se what I could do to improve it. Anyway, I havent put my recipe up in the database yet, but for TD - it was bittered with Target, all Fuggles through the finish, then dry hopped with 20g each of Fuggles and Hallertauer (something I picked up from a BC micro). Not too sure about the oxidation, will report to you after I taste my bottle. I am pretty careful, but anything is possible. As far as Berp goes, I hope that you didnt get a dodgy bottle, I havent tasted any infection while trying my sampler stubbies before I sent it off, so I cant say. It may be a little too bitter (its 10IBU above range for style), and that is something I will be looking at. I will try and post my next review this arvo when I get home from work.
All the best
Trent


----------



## KoNG

The mystery continues Trent.... i think i must have got a similar bottle to Berp, as i and miss KoNG both noted the extreme bitterness and what may have been an infection.?? I'm also confused with the hops, even though the bitterness was the dominant aspect of the beer... to me.... it was all amercian hops in what flavour and aroma i got.
Anyways, i scribbled some notes down when i had the beer, but they are at home, i'll make my review then.


----------



## Gough

KoNG said:


> The mystery continues Trent.... i think i must have got a similar bottle to Berp, as i and miss KoNG both noted the extreme bitterness and what may have been an infection.?? I'm also confused with the hops, even though the bitterness was the dominant aspect of the beer... to me.... it was all amercian hops in what flavour and aroma i got.
> Anyways, i scribbled some notes down when i had the beer, but they are at home, i'll make my review then.



Did you send out two different beers to trick us all Trent? :lol: FWIW my bottle was indeed quite bitter, but as Shmick and a couple of other reviewers have noted there was still sufficient malt there in that big US IPA style. The hop flavour and aroma in mine was definitely English. Just to show I'm not being a [email protected] after Trent has listed his ingredients, I'd have guessed EKG rather than Fuggles and definitely missed the Hallertau, but it was an English rather than US flavour. And definitely no infection in my bottle, so there you go... The great Trent mystery of 2006 :lol: 

Shawn.


----------



## KoNG

Gough said:


> FWIW my bottle was indeed quite bitter, but as Shmick and a couple of other reviewers have noted there was still sufficient malt there in that big US IPA style.



hmmm, i would have said that this bottle was a little lacking in malt and body....? :unsure: 
is there not some form of infection that removes malt/body and hence increases perceived bitterness.?
this is really confusing..... just to make sure, trents beer is the "dirty birdie" one..? with the indian mynah on the label....?

Trent you cheeky bugger... what are you upto..?? :lol:


----------



## T.D.

Any acetic bacteria infection will have the effect of reducing body. Most bacterial infections will do this to some degree. For example the bacteria that causes a wine to become "corked" also often makes the wine come across as fairly weak, especially compared to non-corked versions of the same wine.

I have no idea what the case is with Trents brew though...


----------



## Gough

KoNG said:


> Gough said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW my bottle was indeed quite bitter, but as Shmick and a couple of other reviewers have noted there was still sufficient malt there in that big US IPA style.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, i would have said that this bottle was a little lacking in malt and body....? :unsure:
> is there not some form of infection that removes malt/body and hence increases perceived bitterness.?
> this is really confusing..... just to make sure, trents beer is the "dirty birdie" one..? with the indian mynah on the label....?
> 
> Trent you cheeky bugger... what are you upto..?? :lol:
Click to expand...


Mmmm... I tasted my bottle about a week and a half ago. Don't know if that would make any difference? Surely not a long enough period of time for any meaningful change?? The body was fine, not over-carbonated and no infection when I tried it... Bitter and hoppy, but an enjoyable brew - as I said, one of the beers I've enjoyed most from the case so far. Strange and stranger...

Shawn.


----------



## KoNG

*NIFTY's - California Common*

This beer poured a slight hazy copper with a small head throughout consumption. On the nose was a fruity yeast aroma similar to that of CSA. The first sip proved malty and balanced (maybe slightly to the malt side) with a smooth mouthfeel. This came accross as a perfect session beer, nothing confronting or obtruse it really felt like drinking CSA. Nice.


----------



## berapnopod

Gough said:


> I didn't pick up any infection, early or otherwise. It is a bottle conditioned beer and I picked up some 'yeastiness', but definitely no infection. Maybe you got a dodgy bottle berp - or maybe I got a good one - but I know an infected beer when I taste it and the bottle I tried wasn't infected.



After thinking a bit more about Trent's beer (and finishing it off), I came to the conclusion that it was almost certainly an infection. But because others (such as you, Gough) did not notice it, I think you're probably right that it must have come from the bottle.

Still a good beer though, Trent!

Berp.


----------



## KoNG

berapnopod said:


> After thinking a bit more about Trent's beer (and finishing it off), I came to the conclusion that it was almost certainly an infection. But because others (such as you, Gough) did not notice it, I think you're probably right that it must have come from the bottle.
> 
> Still a good beer though, Trent!
> 
> Berp.



Agreed, although i must have got a similar bottle.  
The bummer for me was, that i remembered enjoying Trents beer @ christmas... even Miss KoNG mentioned liking the last case entry from Trent when i handed her a glass of the july entry. Hopefully it was some isolated bottles.

Cheers
KoNG


----------



## Trent

My goodness!
I hope that it was just some isolated bottles, I dont usually get infections, but I did have a feeling that the beer was a little too bitter, but figured there is no such think as i "too bitter" IPA. I certainly didnt put it in as a bad beer on purpose  , so I am very sorry if you got a bad bottle. I will crack mine tonight, and post my review tomorrow. It has been in the bottle the better part of 3 months, so I would assume if it were an infection, it would have been close to undrinkable at this stage, but if there are several people who have thought the same thing, I am certainly not one to argue. My utmost apologies if there was an infection. Any ideas on what it could have been? I am all for hearing honest reports on my beer, and if I can get some help to improve, I am very happy. IPA is one of my favourite styles, I have had others comment the hops taste American, so maybe Fuggles isnt the best hop for it? That, and I will try and drop the IBU's. Possibly even go back to basics, and start at 1.060, and 40IBU's. Very sorry again, but anyone that has any reviews on my beer, good or bad, please post em, along with any thoughts for improvement.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Trent

KONG'S ENGLISH BITTER

This beer had a sweet malty aroma, with some caramel qualities, a moderate hop aroma, and moderate fruity esters. It was amber in colour, clear, with a dense white head that dissipated fairly quickly (I assume I need to clean my glassware, as this is a recurring theme for me). The beer itself is a little overcarbonated, so the flavours are a little muted, however I found a moderate maltiness with a med-high bitterness that lingers into the aftertaste. There is moderate hop flavour, and moderate fruity esters, it is balanced towards the bittering hops (as all good bitters should be), though finishes just a touch sweet, and has some low malt flavours in the background. The body is med-light, with med-high carbonation that gives a low level of carbonic bite. there is a slight creaminess, that is mostly negated by the carbonation, and moderate alcohol warming present.
Overall, I thought this was an easy enough drinking beer, it was a little overcarbonated and maybe a little too sweet (but only just) in the finish. I certainly enjoyed it, however, and we had MHB's "extra" bottle at the last BJCP meet, and everyone that tried it commented that they would be proud to make a beer like that. As far as improvements go, I would use a hint (maybe 30g) of a dark, or roasted malt to dry out the sweetness in the finish and darken the colour a tiny bit, and obviously lower the carbonation. Some more hop flavour would be nice, but that is just my tastes. I gave it 36.5/50.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Trent

NOOCH'S DARK MILD

Moderate malt aroma, consisting of chocolate, caramel and a slight biscuity note. No hop aroma, and some moderate fruity esters. It was a deep drown in colour, that had ruby highlights when held to the light, and was quite clear. The low, off white head dissipated quickly in my glass. There is quite a mild flavour (hence the name "mild!"), and it tastes a little watery on the back palate, but it is only 3.4% after all. It has a low chocolatey maltiness, with a moderate bitterness that is possibly a little too high for style. There is a low fruitiness, and the beer finishes reasonably dry, possibly thinning the body and flavour a little? No hop flavour, nor diacetyl. The bidy was light, with low carbonation (spot on), though it is a little too dry to have any real creaminess to the mouthfeel, it is almost a light astringency. No perceptable alcohol warming.
Overall this is quite a nice beer, easy to drink, and it got better the more I drank. Excellent attempt at your first mild. As far as my thoughts for improvement, I would reduce the dark malt, or add it at the start of sparge, to lower that dryness at the finish. Lower the bitterness by a few points, to allow the malt to show through more, and I would possibly also mash a little higher, or use a few different crystal malts, to try and up the body a little. Quite enjoyed it though. I gave it 38/50 to style.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Steve

Following this thread with interest. Enjoy reading some of the descriptions people give for a beer (chocolatey notes, back palates, esters). Just wondering how you guys are actually serving the beers?

1. Decanting into chilled jug and then into chilled glass?
2. Decanting into frozen jug and then into frozen glass?
3. Not decanting into a jug - straight into chilled glass?
4. Not decanting into a jug - straight into a non-chilled glass?
5. Straight from the bottle (heaven forbid!)

Just curious because as you know all of the above will give different results to the glass of beer you are tasting.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## n00ch

Thanks for the feedback Trent. I'll definitely take you recommendations onboard next time i brew a mild.

As for serving method Steve I pour to a non chilled jug then to a non chilled glass.

Cheers


----------



## Gough

n00ch said:


> Thanks for the feedback Trent. I'll definitely take you recommendations onboard next time i brew a mild.
> 
> As for serving method Steve I pour to a non chilled jug then to a non chilled glass.
> 
> Cheers



I 'decant' gently into a non-chilled jug and pour into a non-chilled glass. I let the beers warm up a touch as well.

Shawn.


----------



## Steve

Gough said:


> n00ch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback Trent. I'll definitely take you recommendations onboard next time i brew a mild.
> 
> As for serving method Steve I pour to a non chilled jug then to a non chilled glass.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I 'decant' gently into a non-chilled jug and pour into a non-chilled glass. I let the beers warm up a touch as well.
> 
> Shawn.
Click to expand...


Cheers Nooch and Gough...just wondering with your serving method, is this how you normally serve YOUR beer at home or is this a method you are using to fully judge the beers?
Steve


----------



## Gough

Steve said:


> Gough said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> n00ch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback Trent. I'll definitely take you recommendations onboard next time i brew a mild.
> 
> As for serving method Steve I pour to a non chilled jug then to a non chilled glass.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I 'decant' gently into a non-chilled jug and pour into a non-chilled glass. I let the beers warm up a touch as well.
> 
> Shawn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cheers Nooch and Gough...just wondering with your serving method, is this how you normally serve YOUR beer at home or is this a method you are using to fully judge the beers?
> Steve
Click to expand...


'Cause I still bottle, this is how I generally serve mine at home.

Shawn.


----------



## Weizguy

Steve.

I use option 4. Not decanting into a jug - straight into a non-chilled glass.

I like to use an appropriate glass for the style too, if I have one, as it seems to make a difference.
I try to ensure that I don't get any yeast/sediment.
I like to serve at an appropriate temperature for the style, as well as allowing the beer to warm in the glass as I'm tasting, as I sometimes get a better flavour as the beer warms (not always, as with commercial Aussie beer).

This is the method I use for most beers at home, as I am now a confirmed "beer geek".

Seth


----------



## n00ch

I keg so i generally pour from tap to non chilled glass but the beers i do bottle are always served this way.


----------



## Gough

Weizguy said:


> This is the method I use for most beers at home, as I am now a confirmed "beer geek".
> 
> Seth



... And I thought I was the only one!?!?! :lol: 

Shawn.


----------



## Stuster

I'm a 4, Steve. Pour whole bottle into two glasses. Sometimes SWMBO drinks one of them, but if it's not to her taste I get two. I don't want to have beer too cold to taste it. The second glass is often the best.

Last night I had Shmick's ESB. Yummy stuff, Shmick. This was a really nice bitter. Dark, great head all the way down. I only had one glass of this one. :angry: 

Josh's Pilsner was nice. Rather overcarbonated, but after it sat for a while it was a good beer, malty but clean with a good body.

Kong's Bitter. It didn't taste like rubber to me, though there was some aftertaste. :unsure: Clear, good head, slight aroma. A good bitter to my taste.

Stickler's APA. An easy drinker, clean etc. IMO it could do with a lot more hops for flavour and aroma, but this would be a good, light session beer as is.

Sorry about the poor quality of the reviews. Enjoying the drinking and not writing down my thoughts on the beers until later. :chug:


----------



## Steve

I think I may have to give this non chilled method a go....

I just always used a frozen jug and frozen glass to serve  h34r: :blink: dont know why just always have :unsure: 
Cheers
Steve


----------



## KoNG

into a Non chilled glass for me.


----------



## warrenlw63

I like to drink my beers from a nice "astringent" non-coated paper cup. h34r: 

Warren -


----------



## Gough

warrenlw63 said:


> I like to drink my beers from a nice "astringent" non-coated paper cup. h34r:
> 
> Warren -



:lol: :lol: A sense of humour can get you into trouble Warren...  This is a very, very serious thread don't you know...

Shawn.


----------



## Borret

Perhaps one could sanitise their tounge to eliminate it as the source of those infected flavours....

Has anyone just sat and enjoyed a beer yet?

Oh and when's the poll starting on 'Who's being banned form the next case swap"?

:wacko: 

Brent


----------



## berapnopod

For Steve, I pour the beer into a non-chilled glass - the same one each time.
Thats pretty much what I would do for any beer, although I might use a different glass.


Anyway...


*Barry's Robust Porter*

Aroma: Overall muted aroma, which consists mainly of malt, choloclate malt and some esters. I don't get any hops, and theres a hint of caramelly/toffee too.

Appearance: Almost black, but I can just detect ruby highlights through the glass. Nearly no head, which forms a crescent around the edge of the glass. Nice tan colour. Clarity is very good.

Flavour: Dominant toffee flavour. Very complex. Certainly toasty flavours in there. Not much hop flavour, but the bitterness is well placed and balances out the toffee malt character, leading to a bitter and dry finish.
Perhaps just a drop of diacetyl which adds a bit of buttery sweetness.

Mouthfeel: Medium/light body, and tastes well attenuated, even though your recipe has it down as less than 75%. I can smell the alcohol in there, but it is only a very slight warming feeling, and certainly nothing harsh about it. There's a touch of astringency from the hops I guess. Lends another layer of yummy complexity.

Overall: A great beer, Barry! Very well balanced and well made with no obvious faults. Balance is the hallmark of this style and I think you've done a very good job of hitting that mark. The complexity of flavours in the beer makes it a real nice ponderous sipper. Just to add a couple of suggestions: I would have preferred more in the way of hop flavour. But that one is a personal preference of your porters. Also a bit of silky smoothness would have rounded it out nicely. Maybe up the oats to 250g or more? I understand you have been tinkering with this recipe for quite a while, so you probably prefer it as it is now though.


Berp.


----------



## stephen

Borret said:


> Has anyone just sat and enjoyed a beer yet?
> 
> 
> :wacko:
> 
> Brent



the last couple of nights I haven't finished work until about 1.00 Am. Added into that is getting up at 6.30 am to get 16 yo (going on 32) daughter up and off to school.

When I get home I have just grabb a couple of bottles from the case and drink for relaxation/pleasure. I open the first one up and drink it at the temp my shed had it at and place the remainder into the fridge: The nights here have been getting into the low single figures! I then consume the beer and pour the second after the first is finished - I know, stating the obvious , and then note the difference in flavour between the first and second. The second bottle gets a little cooler and is consumed like the first.

So for the last two nights I have had the pleasure to relax with the following beers, not to mention that I thoroughly enjoyed them! I have not performed any tasting analysis, just enjoyed them. Thanks to the brewers. They were:

Night one:
TD's Boston lager,
Nooch's dark mild.

Night two:
Beerslayers APA,
Schmick's ESB.

As I said I drank these for relaxtion and not for analysis and found them to be fanatstic beers. Thanks again.

One very tired Stephen


----------



## berapnopod

Borret said:


> Perhaps one could sanitise their tounge to eliminate it as the source of those infected flavours....
> 
> Has anyone just sat and enjoyed a beer yet?
> 
> Oh and when's the poll starting on 'Who's being banned form the next case swap"?
> 
> :wacko:
> 
> Brent



Borret, I really don't understand where you're coming from.
Whats the problem?
Who do you think might be banned from the next swap? Or who would you like to see banned?

Berp.


----------



## T.D.

Stephen, I think you have the right idea - no need to analyse, just enjoy!

But alas, I have started, and now I must continue!  

*Josh's Pilsner:* I would really just like to reiterate KoNG's comments on this beer - this is a freakin Duvel clone!! Geez its similar. I was a bit slow drinking it as I was doing some work on the computer as I was drinking and had the odd 10-15min stint where I realised I hadn't had a sip! But anyway, as the beer warmed up I started to get a few of those more "traditional" pilsner flavours coming through. I really enjoyed the beer, but more as a Duvel clone than a Bohemian Pils.

*Drew Carey's Pils:* Well, first off, I don't want to start a war here or anything, but this is a fairly typical kit beer. But having got that off my chest, I am really enjoyiong it. I must say its a hell of a lot better than 99% of the kit beers I used to make. I would say you have the fermentation/sanitation/carbonation etc etc side of things pretty sorted. Your problem is that kits suck - AG is so much better!! h34r: :lol: :lol:


----------



## T.D.

Oh, and both of these beers either did or didn't have significant levels of astringency... h34r:


----------



## stephen

For those interested in the recipe that I used for my Special bitter, just do a search for Tony's Special Bitter.

For Tony, thanks for the recipe I have had only had positive responses regarding the beer I brewed with your recipe - except for my personal touch - overcarbonation.

regards

Stephen


----------



## PostModern

Borret said:


> Perhaps one could sanitise their tounge to eliminate it as the source of those infected flavours....
> 
> Has anyone just sat and enjoyed a beer yet?
> 
> Oh and when's the poll starting on 'Who's being banned form the next case swap"?
> 
> :wacko:
> 
> Brent



I've enjoyed every one of the beers I've had so far. Some I liked, some I didn't but I sure enjoy drinking all these beers and writing about them. As a drinker it's about testing your own senses against the beer. But drinking and tasting is just one part of it. As a brewer, I like getting feedback from other brewers (which is why I'm so disappointed with my contribution). What a waste it would be for brewers to give their beers to other brewers and not give each other critical feedback.


----------



## PostModern

*Shmick's ESB*
Unreal work on the labelling, Shmick!

Poured with lots of fizz but no head. My nose is been a bit blocked up, so I didn't detect much in the aroma. Flavour is very dry with a crystal hit behind it. Nice and bitter with English hop aroma. Perhaps a slightly harsh bitterness. Could possibly do with more flavour hops but that could just be my palate at the moment. Dunno about the head. I thought it could be my glass, but the next beer I poured has a fine head? Overall, a nice drop, but too bitter for me to drink one after the other.


----------



## PostModern

*PoMo's Bitter*

Other people have been drinking this and reporting that it's not totally foul, so I thought I'd taste and review it  Totally impartial.

Pours a amber with a small bubble head that quickly drops thin but persistent. Aroma is slightly hoppy and slightly oxidised. Dry and astringent taste, some hop taste, perhaps slightly soapy. Definately needs more crystal, Seth, I agree. Nowhere near as damaged as the first two I tried, and unlike those, this one is out of the case, so it's done the same travelling as the ones in all the other cases. Seems that the yeast is indeed cleaning up the oxygen in the bottle, so hold off drinking this for another week or two (or more). Would brew this again with more crystal and gentler treatment.

So the ugly duckling isn't really an ugly duckling... it's not a swan, but just a less ugly duck... 

EDIT: or some bottles are worse effected than others... lucky dip?


----------



## Stuster

PostModern said:


> I've enjoyed every one of the beers I've had so far. Some I liked, some I didn't but I sure enjoy drinking all these beers and writing about them. As a drinker it's about testing your own senses against the beer. But drinking and tasting is just one part of it. As a brewer, I like getting feedback from other brewers (which is why I'm so disappointed with my contribution). What a waste it would be for brewers to give their beers to other brewers and not give each other critical feedback.



Totally agree with this. :super: 

Maybe it was your glasses, PoMo, because I drank Shmick's ESB last night and there was a great head on that lasted to the end. :unsure: I liked that beer a lot.


----------



## PostModern

Stuster said:


> Maybe it was your glasses, PoMo, because I drank Shmick's ESB last night and there was a great head on that lasted to the end. :unsure: I liked that beer a lot.



Looks like Shmick's beer washed the glass for mine, although it's still not holding any lace at all. It was my least recently used pint-glass... will have to take some time to bi-carb some glasses before my Friday Night Three.


----------



## stephen

Fellow case brewers,

I know I have said that I am enjoying your beers and unable to provide a serious taste analysis. Sounds even worse when you hear that I'm part way through a BJCP course, so, therefore should utilise this opportunity to practice what I'm learning.

Unfortunately there are more sinister forces at work in my life that tend to detract me from providing a detailed report.

To those who have responded to my beer, I thank you. To those of you that have contributed, I really thank you. To those I don't respond to, My apologies, but I still thank you.

Stephen

PS Thank you.


----------



## Steve

I put my name down for a case swap with the Canberra Brewers Club at Christmas.....I cant wait after following this thread...it'll be like having a shelf from Jim Murphys in my Fridge (hopefully  )
Cheers
Steve


----------



## berapnopod

*Nifty's California Common*

Aroma: Light hoppy and fruity nose. Very clean and low esters.

Appearance: very slight haze. very thin head supported by medium carbonation from the beer. Light orange colour.

Flavour: Balanced slightly towards the malty side, but with a medium bitterness to keep the beer from being too sweet - a good balance for the style. The palate is very clean and with a bit more carbonation would be lightly refreshing. There's a subtle bitterness that gets you right at the back of the throat when you're not looking. Hops/ Malt? I dunno. The finish is bitter and slightly drying with a good earthy flavour that lingers for a short while.

Mouthfeel: Medium body and feels appropriately attenuated. Medium carbonation.

Overall: This is a very good example of what I remember Anchor Steam to be, although its been a few years. Light and refreshing with a bit of malt backbone to give it some character. Nice one, Nifty! Not sure about the odd feeling at the back of the throat. I am slowly coming round to the idea it is a bit of bitterness and a bit of maltiness combining in an unusual way, although I am still not clear what it is. Probably not worth worrying about anyway. 


Berp.


----------



## Trent

Gday all
My beer seems to have caused a little mystery a page or two back, as to whether or not it is infected, so I have decided to try it out myself. I was going to read all the reviews, and then try it, bearing most peoples comments in mind, but decided to check out to see if it was worth drinking, or telling everyone to throw out. Here is my honest review (and it may get a little long - sorry)

TRENT'S IPA

The aroma is malt with a slight hint of caramel, some yeast aroma, and a mde-high hop aroma. The aroma has an almost "citrusiness" to it, and I can see why several people have mistaken it (this one, and the IPA I made after it) for American hops. The colour is a mid amber, with a slight orange hue, and would be close to the clearest beer I have ever made! It poured with a thick white head, that subsided to a thin white head with reasonably large bubbles. The flavour? Well, it is very bitter, possibly too much so, with a med-high hop flavour that slightly masks the malt, but there is still enough malt backbone to make a showing. The flavours seem to not have melded together as they usually do, almost tasting seperate (as my mrs put it), and there is a distinct minerally flavour (possibly from the Wyeast 1028) that is very noticeable, and COULD be mistaken for a low level infection. Here, I will have to disagree with the infection prognosis, as after 3 months in the bottle, I feel that an infection would have a much more dominant than the mineraliness. There is also a flavour that could almost be described as "salty", though I think this is also to do with the yeast profile, and I could just be imagining the saltiness (I am looking fairly hard for infection flavours). There is a moderate fruitiness, and the finish is med-dry, probably partly due to the high attenuation, and partly due to the extra high bitterness, that is somewhat out of style. The bitterness lingers long into the aftertaste, though I do not find it harsh, at least not for such a high bitterness, I actually think it is kinda smooth :blink: The alcohol flavour is very clean, and not at all hot. Anyway, I think this beer displays attributes of higher sulfate water, as per BJCP guidelines, but I am pretty sure my water is low in sulfates.
It has a medium body and medium carbonation, some alcohol warming, that is smooth for 7.4%. High hopping rate could be perceived as astringent, though I dont think it is.
Overall, this beer is too bitter to be an english IPA, and needs a less assertive bitterness to allow more malt flavours to show through. The flavours have not melded together well, and the minerally flavour is too strong (it is also in all other beers I have made with 1028, though not as dominant as here). I will concede that this is not the greatest beer for the style and gravity. It is at least 10-12 IBU's too high, and the hallertauer in the dry hop didnt really do it any favours. I thikn that this is a beer almost stuck between two styles - too much bitterness and not enough maltiness to be an Engligh IPA, and not enough hop flavour, nor clean yeast profile, to be American. This beer is not great, but it is not bad, and I am certain that it is not infected with anything. Attenuation is perfect for style, and appearance is great. For improvements, I will suggest dropping the IBU's by 15, cutting down the late additions by 1/3, and dry hopping with a single type of hop. Possibly use all EKG, but to be honest, Fuggles should be fine.
I will say that this beer will probably only be liked by those that like very hoppy, agressively bitter beers, and even then, it isnt as good as it could be. It is definitely NOT for everyone, but as far as style goes, it fits the score I gave it - "generally within style parameters, some minor flaws". By that logic, though, I should have given Barry 45+ for his robust porter (world class example of style). If anybody can convince me there is an infection, and point me to a way of avoiding the same again, please do so. I am quite open to criticism of any kind, and if you have suggestions on improvement, please let me know. I will be honest and say though it is a little full on, I enjoyed it. I hope others do aswell, but if not, my apologies for putting in a beer I KNOW I can do better than. Thanks to those who have already discussed their honest opinions on my beer, it really is appreciated. I hope my spiel didnt come off as angry or defensive, as it wasnt inteded that way.
I gave this beer 33.5/50
All the best
Trent


----------



## Guest Lurker

Trent said:


> and there is a distinct minerally flavour (possibly from the Wyeast 1028) that is very noticeable, and COULD be mistaken for a low level infection.



I find I often taste this with 1028, particularly if there is any dark malt in the grist. If you stick your head in a fermenter full of attenuated dark beer using 1028 there is a slighly salty, mineral, but sort of acetic aroma that has made me think of an infection. I dont use that yeast anymore, just don't like it. So a lot of what you describe rings true for the yeast to me.


----------



## Steve

Trent said:


> Gday all
> My beer seems to have caused a little mystery a page or two back, as to whether or not it is infected, so I have decided to try it out myself. I was going to read all the reviews, and then try it, bearing most peoples comments in mind, but decided to check out to see if it was worth drinking, or telling everyone to throw out. Here is my honest review (and it may get a little long - sorry)
> 
> TRENT'S IPA
> 
> The aroma is malt with a slight hint of caramel, some yeast aroma, and a mde-high hop aroma. The aroma has an almost "citrusiness" to it, and I can see why several people have mistaken it (this one, and the IPA I made after it) for American hops. The colour is a mid amber, with a slight orange hue, and would be close to the clearest beer I have ever made! It poured with a thick white head, that subsided to a thin white head with reasonably large bubbles. The flavour? Well, it is very bitter, possibly too much so, with a med-high hop flavour that slightly masks the malt, but there is still enough malt backbone to make a showing. The flavours seem to not have melded together as they usually do, almost tasting seperate (as my mrs put it), and there is a distinct minerally flavour (possibly from the Wyeast 1028) that is very noticeable, and COULD be mistaken for a low level infection. Here, I will have to disagree with the infection prognosis, as after 3 months in the bottle, I feel that an infection would have a much more dominant than the mineraliness. There is also a flavour that could almost be described as "salty", though I think this is also to do with the yeast profile, and I could just be imagining the saltiness (I am looking fairly hard for infection flavours). There is a moderate fruitiness, and the finish is med-dry, probably partly due to the high attenuation, and partly due to the extra high bitterness, that is somewhat out of style. The bitterness lingers long into the aftertaste, though I do not find it harsh, at least not for such a high bitterness, I actually think it is kinda smooth :blink: The alcohol flavour is very clean, and not at all hot. Anyway, I think this beer displays attributes of higher sulfate water, as per BJCP guidelines, but I am pretty sure my water is low in sulfates.
> It has a medium body and medium carbonation, some alcohol warming, that is smooth for 7.4%. High hopping rate could be perceived as astringent, though I dont think it is.
> Overall, this beer is too bitter to be an english IPA, and needs a less assertive bitterness to allow more malt flavours to show through. The flavours have not melded together well, and the minerally flavour is too strong (it is also in all other beers I have made with 1028, though not as dominant as here). I will concede that this is not the greatest beer for the style and gravity. It is at least 10-12 IBU's too high, and the hallertauer in the dry hop didnt really do it any favours. I thikn that this is a beer almost stuck between two styles - too much bitterness and not enough maltiness to be an Engligh IPA, and not enough hop flavour, nor clean yeast profile, to be American. This beer is not great, but it is not bad, and I am certain that it is not infected with anything. Attenuation is perfect for style, and appearance is great. For improvements, I will suggest dropping the IBU's by 15, cutting down the late additions by 1/3, and dry hopping with a single type of hop. Possibly use all EKG, but to be honest, Fuggles should be fine.
> I will say that this beer will probably only be liked by those that like very hoppy, agressively bitter beers, and even then, it isnt as good as it could be. It is definitely NOT for everyone, but as far as style goes, it fits the score I gave it - "generally within style parameters, some minor flaws". By that logic, though, I should have given Barry 45+ for his robust porter (world class example of style). If anybody can convince me there is an infection, and point me to a way of avoiding the same again, please do so. I am quite open to criticism of any kind, and if you have suggestions on improvement, please let me know. I will be honest and say though it is a little full on, I enjoyed it. I hope others do aswell, but if not, my apologies for putting in a beer I KNOW I can do better than. Thanks to those who have already discussed their honest opinions on my beer, it really is appreciated. I hope my spiel didnt come off as angry or defensive, as it wasnt inteded that way.
> I gave this beer 33.5/50
> All the best
> Trent




holy crap! its only a beer! mate...and this is just my opinion, but honestly if you care that your water is low in sulphate...then you may as well give up. Dont want to be harsh but no-one is going to read 10 thousand words about a beer brewed by that person and find out at the end of the story that that person doesnt like his own beer. Just relax man.....
Cheers
Steve


----------



## warrenlw63

Trent.

Sort of understand what you mean to a degree. Though I haven't used the yeast for a couple of years I used to find that it would go kind of funny in the bottle over time (happened on several occasions). Periods exceeding 3 months would give the bitterness a funny, almost horridly bitter character that wasn't particularly pleasant.

As GL said it always seemed more pronounced when using darker malts in the grist too. h34r: 

BTW You say you taste a sulfate character in the beer? I think personally if you had burtonised your water somewhat (higher sulfate content with gypsum) you'd most likely find that the bitterness becomes more agreeable, almost flinty rather than say a single/separate component so to speak. 

Just my two bob's worth. It's all set to try us.  

Warren -


----------



## Steve

warrenlw63 said:


> Trent.
> 
> Sort of understand what you mean to a degree. Though I haven't used the yeast for a couple of years I used to find that it would go kind of funny in the bottle over time (happened on several occasions). Periods exceeding 3 months would give the bitterness a funny, almost horridly bitter character that wasn't particularly pleasant.
> 
> As GL said it always seemed more pronounced when using darker malts in the grist too. h34r:
> 
> BTW You say you taste a sulfate character in the beer? I think personally if you had of burtonised your water somewhat (higher sulfate content with gypsum) you'd most likely find that the bitterness becomes more agreeable, almost flinty rather than say a single/separate component so to speak.
> 
> Just my two bob's worth. It's all set to try us.
> 
> Warren -



Holy crap - water characteristics! Not another thing to take into consderbloodyration!. Soon as I learn something, then up pops anotherbloodything!


----------



## PostModern

*Trent's IPA*

Trent, I tasted your IPA tonight and I agree, it has a minerally or salty flavour to it. Once my palate balanced with the water profile, I could taste the rest of the beer. Once I had adjusted to the (I assume) water profile (just a couple of big mouthfulls), I could taste the strong malt backbone of the beer, along with supporting hops and strong bitterness. I did not get the American hop impression others have talked about. It struck me as distinctly Burton, high carbonate, high sulphate with tons of hops and tons of malt. I really enjoyed it, although the Mrs didn't like it.


----------



## PostModern

*Ten Inch Brewery Porter*

Poured a rich black colour with light tan head. Head held nicely down the glass. Bitter and roasty with a strong yeast flavour. Not enough choc or crystal, I think, but quite drinkable for its strength. Slight sourness. Nice and black, a satisfying beer.

*berto's Oatmeal Stout*
I think I've tasted this too early. A little sour still, and full of sulphur in the aroma. Give it more time. Anything I say now will be about a green beer.


----------



## Trent

> holy crap! its only a beer! mate...and this is just my opinion, but honestly if you care that your water is low in sulphate...then you may as well give up. Dont want to be harsh but no-one is going to read 10 thousand words about a beer brewed by that person and find out at the end of the story that that person doesnt like his own beer. Just relax man.....
> Cheers
> Steve



Steve
I understand exactly where you are coming from, mate, and take no offense to what you are saying, but water chemistry is actually very important to beer (it is mostly water, after all). I understand that no-one is gonna wanna read a whole bollock load about a beer that I brewed, but I put it up there to give them an honest forewarning of what they could expect, as there was a suggestion earlier that it may be infected. Its not that I didnt LIKE my beer, per se, I am just used to making better (no high horse intended), and like to look at my beers honestly to note area's that can be improved. Mainly cause I dont wanna drink average beer, I would prefer to drink good, or even great beer. The closer you get to all grain, probably the more anal you will get too! And mate, when I am drinking a beer I am really enjoying (happens reasonably often, actually), I relax alot :lol: 
I am glad to hear that others have had this experience with 1028. I didnt use dark malts, nor did I burtonise, but am starting to think maybe this yeast isnt really for me. Have some 1275, and will be pinching Les' 1318, and try both of those. I love my English Ales, and will be trying every english yeast to find my favourite. 
Sorry about the slightly off topic post, my next posts will be reviewing beers!
All the best
Trent


----------



## Weizguy

Guest Lurker said:


> Trent said:
> 
> 
> 
> and there is a distinct minerally flavour (possibly from the Wyeast 1028) that is very noticeable, and COULD be mistaken for a low level infection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find I often taste this with 1028, particularly if there is any dark malt in the grist. If you stick your head in a fermenter full of attenuated dark beer using 1028 there is a slighly salty, mineral, but sort of acetic aroma that has made me think of an infection. I dont use that yeast anymore, just don't like it. So a lot of what you describe rings true for the yeast to me.
Click to expand...

Trent,

I have to agree with GL on the acetic factor, as I had a glass of your IPA last night (and left the rest in the bottle for tonight). I, however, felt that a slight infection might have got in there, due to 3 pieces of evidence.
When I poured the beer, the glass was slightly less than half foam.
There was an acetic aroma, which strangely disappeared for the bottom half of the glass. (Maybe the hop aroma dominated or the beer warmed and the acetic disappated).
For the first few sips, I could taste a slight vinegar taste.

Now, this could be a one-off unless reported by other case-tasters, so don't take it as gospel.

On the other hand, I have made several sour beers (both deliberately and involuntarily/carelessly), and I know the taste of the vinegar in my beers. I have to say that GL's tale of acetic aroma might be the case, as the level of acetic aroma in your beer was very low (compared to mine, anyway :lol: ).

Lucky I recapped the bottle and popped it back in the fridge, so I can evaluate this beer again and actually write a review (as opposed to a post-mortem :lol: ).

Seth out


----------



## stephen

Speaking of infections, I have now tried both PoMo's and Trents beers. 

PoMo - apart from being quite a dry beer I couldn't detect any off flavours. Overall the beer went down quite well and as it warmed, like most beers, released a whole lot of aromas and flavours. 

Trent - As you said an overly bitter beer - too much so. Once I got accustomed to the bitterness I found a delightful beer hiding in there. Like you said, drop the IBU's 10-15 points and you will have a great beer.

As I stated in an earlier post, I'm drinking these beers to enjoy rather than assess: Why be critical on someone's labours and endeavours when the whole intent was to share and enjoy what others have created.

Regards

Steve


----------



## DrewCarey82

T.D. said:


> *Drew Carey's Pils:* Well, first off, I don't want to start a war here or anything, but this is a fairly typical kit beer. But having got that off my chest, I am really enjoyiong it. I must say its a hell of a lot better than 99% of the kit beers I used to make. I would say you have the fermentation/sanitation/carbonation etc etc side of things pretty sorted. Your problem is that kits suck - AG is so much better!! h34r: :lol: :lol:



For the next case I actually think that I may contribute 2 beers, a partial and this beer again done correctly.

Cause deadset I feel bad I've killed it for many people who may have tried it!


----------



## berapnopod

*Sticklers Bitter*

Aroma: Light fruity aroma. Some hops and some malt, but all is very subdued. Beautiful!

Appearance: Brilliant clarity, gold colour, no head, but carbonation in the beer appears medium and creates a few bubbles on the surface.

Flavour: Initially fruity and underlying malt flavour that quickly develops to an assertively bitter beer. Finish is very bitter, dry and otherwise clean. Balance is initially towards he malt but quickly overtaken by the hops. Slightly sour touch to it.

Mouthfeel: thin body, as you would expect in this style. Theres a good deal of astringency in here. It appears the hopping rate is high, so you might epect some astringency, but this is on the high end.

Overall: An excellent bitter, Stickler! Its right on for the style. The only suggestions I have are to watch out for sources of astringency (eg. oversparging), also there is a sour note to it, but dunno where its coming from. But overall, well done Stickler, this is a great beer!


Berp.


----------



## Trent

Hmmm
Maybe there is something to be said for just sitting and enjoying a beer, rather than reviewing it! Was going to drink POL's contibution last night, but couldnt be bothered to write a review, so I left it till tonight. I had bled the excess pressure off twice, and just went to get it for drinking, and it has exploded.  Anybody that hasnt been bleeding the pressure, or hasnt drunk it yet, might be best off getting to it. I was quite looking forward to that one too. Oh well, not to worry. Sorry I didnt get to it earlier, POL
All the best
Trent


----------



## stephen

Trent said:


> Hmmm
> Maybe there is something to be said for just sitting and enjoying a beer, rather than reviewing it! Was going to drink POL's contibution last night, but couldnt be bothered to write a review, so I left it till tonight. I had bled the excess pressure off twice, and just went to get it for drinking, and it has exploded.  Anybody that hasnt been bleeding the pressure, or hasnt drunk it yet, might be best off getting to it. I was quite looking forward to that one too. Oh well, not to worry. Sorry I didnt get to it earlier, POL
> All the best
> Trent


Trent

I had this beer on Sunday afternoon. A bit gassy but not enough to cause explosion! I had about a 2-3 cm head in a schooner glass. 

Must have got a good 'un!

Cheers, POL and Trent

Stephen


----------



## Stuster

I opened PoL's beer last Wednesday. It gushed a bit. I let it sit for 5 minutes, then recapped it and put it in the fridge till Sunday. It was still overcarbonated but not too bad. By the end of the beer it was just right and you could taste the beer. Really yummy stuff, PoL. Smooth and malty. I wished I had more.


----------



## T.D.

I am drinking Chilled's Aussie lager now. All I can say is this is about as close to Cascade Premium as I imagine is possible! That's both a good thing and a bad thing mind you!!  Cascade premium is a nice beer (one of my favourite Aussie premium lagers), but its a little bland in many ways too. But I must say I am really enjoying this beer. There's certainly something about it that just nails the cascade taste. 

Chilled, can you post the recipe?


----------



## KoNG

*Shmicks - ESB*

This beer presented very well, clear, lively and a great deep copper red. I did not note any aroma so to speak but the low carbonation (perfect carbonation for me) may have played a role in that. If anything i noted a little alcohol when i shoved my big nose in the glass. Flavours gave a slight alcohol warmth too and a somewhat meaty caramel sweet maltiness which was great. The sweetness seemed to linger for me.
I really enjoyed this beer Shmick... :chug: 

KoNG


----------



## Barry

Good day 
Just enjoyed Trent's IIPA
Drank at 9 to 11oC, second last glass with Al Martino's pizzas.

Appearance: Very clear, rich amber, good head, medium high carbonation. Looks great.

Aroma: Strong herbal grassy hop aroma, clean, some esters and yeast character, to style.

Flavour: Clean, intense hop bitterness and flavour, some sweet malt balances well, dry bitter lingering finish, medium+ carbonation. Very bitter but no harshness, to character. Very much to IIPA style.

Mouthfeel: Carbonation OK for style, smooth no astringency, to style

Overall: Bloody big beer to style. Bitterness is full on but to style, hard to stop drinking, no more left! Guess I just stopped.  

40/50.


----------



## KoNG

*HomeBrewWorlds - Irish red*

Poured a very light copper/amber, the first sip was malt driven with limited aroma or hops notable. Maybe a slight tangy aftertaste from the chosen yeast.? Low carbonation suited the style.... and resulted in an easy drinking beer.


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## berapnopod

*Kongs English Bitter*

Aroma: Malty aroma initially. Has a slight chlorine tinge which is probably the variety of hops. Subtle chocolatey malt aroma. Some alcohol.

Appearance: Clear. Medium head of fine bubbles. Should be a lasting head too that is supported by medium/high carbonation in the beer. Dark amber colour.

Flavour: Chocolatey aroma comes through as one of the first flavours. Quickly develops to an intense bitterness, which lingers after the finish. Finish is clean and dry and bitter. Hop flavour is there as a secondary complexity under the malt producing a well balanced beer as far as the malt and hop flavour go.

Mouthfeel: Medium body. Some hint of alcohol warmth. Carbonation is high and gives a carbonation bite a bit too high.

Overall: I think the bitterness is high in this one. The carbonation is also on the high side. Apart from that, I am really loving the chocolatey malt flavour and aroma. It blends really well with the hop flavour. The more I drink this, the less I am concerned about the bitterness level. It tends to mellow out after half a glass. At the end of the bottle I have no problems with the bitterness and think it was more likely my palate at the beginning. Well done, Kong!


Berp.


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## berapnopod

*Pint of Lagers Dortmunder*

This one poured foamy. I managed to get just over half a glass of beer and just under that for head.

Aroma: Malty nose initially with a distinct aroma of bubblegum (ester?) Difficult to get much out of the aroma through the big head. Theres a bit of smoke there as well. From your wood fired brewery, perhaps?

Appearance: Very thick head that looks like it will hang around for a long time. Very fine white bubbles. High apparent carbonation in the beer is keeping the head up and is forming a surface like ice cream. Slight haze. Dark gold colour.

Flavour: Crisp and dry flavour all the way through. Medium/subtle malt flavour goes together well with subdued hop flavour. Theres also a harsh flavour in there that I am guessing is the minerally side of it. Did you add salts to get hard water for this? The finish is dry, bitter and slightly mouth puckering.

Mouthfeel: Medium body. Carbonation is very high too high for this beer. Some alcohol warmth but was expecting a little more from a Dortmunder. Maybe this is because the high carbonation is masking it?

Overall: The carbonation is too high. But after that, I think its a very well made beer that is clean and fresh with a good bitter finish. I am still confused by the bubblegum in the nose. My first impression is that PoL has given us a Belgian and tried to trick us. But I will be the first to admit that esters is not one of my strong points. Overall, its a great recipe and a great beer!


Berp.


----------



## Trent

Gday all
Havent been drinking much lately, so I havent had any beers to write about, but had drewcarey82's pilsner on the weekend, didnt keep any notes though, as I took it with me to a mates house. Hate to say it, as others have, but it did taste like a kit beer to me aswell, I have a fair idea it is the yeast that causes that "homebrew" flavour, but I could be wrong. Anyway, it was pretty clear, low bitterness, and not much hop or malt flavour. That said, it was obvious that Drew had fermented it well, as there was no fruitiness, no off flavours, or anything like that. I am sure that drew will come up with some very good beers now that he is getting into partials. Drew, maybe you should also look into some liquid yeasts, or at least some good quality dried ones. The cheaper ones wont do any beer justice.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Trent

Gday
Tried Chilled's Aussie Lager last night, and thought it was quite nice. It was just what I needed after a long day at work. The malt and bitterness was balanced well, but if I am gonna be picky, I thought it was a touch too full bodied and sweet at the end, but these are minor criticisms. Fairly clear, medium carbonation, could do with a touch more carbonation, but tasted very much like a Premium Aussie Lager to me. Well done.
If you want my "anal retentive" :blink: notes, just shoot me a PM, as with anyone else who's beer I review from now on, saves me all the typing, but happy to type it if ya wanna hear it.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Trent

Gday 
Tried Stickler's APA last night, and thought that it was quite enjoyable. It wasnt too overbearing in any way, it was quite smooth, and about "medium" in all facets, like hop aroma, flavour, maltiness, carbonation, etc... and it went down very quickly. Would be a good quaffer, thats for sure. I think that you said it had a kit as a base though? I could definitely taste that, but still quite enjoyed the beer. If ya want my full review, just PM me
All the best
Trent


----------



## nifty

Well, I'm just about at the end of the Xmas in July beers and I must say, I've really enjoyed them. I just want to thank everyone who contributed to it, I've really enjoyed the different styles involved.

I also wanted to thank the people who appraised the beers, it was most interesting hearing from the more experienced brewers. I don't have any experience in judging beers but I know what I like, and I enjoyed all these beers.

Hopefully I can be part of the Xmas in December case 2006.

Cheers

nifty


----------



## kungy

*Nifty's Cali Common*

I had you beer last night Nifty and it was a very nice beer. Nice clean taste, with a moderate and appropriate level of hops and with a decent dash of fresh malty graininess. Whilst others didn't personally rate the carbonation levels, i thought it was spot on, giving it some life but not hiding and overpowering the flavour of the beer. My only thing which is probably just personal tastes was that it was a little to sweet to go a whole lot of it in one sitting. If it was dried out a tad, it would be a very quaffable and still full flavoured beer. Excellent effort.

Will

Three down, twenty five to go.


----------



## Thommo

Three down? Twenty Five to go?

I just polished off no. 28

Berp's Mum's Stout. I saved all the dark beers for last.

Thanks everyone for letting me be a part of this. Sorry I haven't contributed as many tasting notes as I wanted too...got a bit busy at work and started drinking these as a wind down instead of using them for practice for my BJCP course.

My faves were probably Doc's Irish Red and TD's boston lager. Great to experience different beers I normally wouldn't brew and to get ideas about what I can do down the track. Thanks to the lager's I've tried in this case I've finally brewed my first one with a proper lager yeast!!!

My contribution was my first ever all grain... so I hope it wasn't too dodgy.

Can't wait for the Xmas case to roll around in December. I've already decided what I'm going to do - a bitter. (Or an IPA, but probably a bitter.)

Cheers and Beers,

Thommo.


----------



## Weizguy

Thommo,

Hope U don't mind me asking, but did U gag on the Berliner Weisse? Did I get close to the mark?

BTW everyone, the Berliner is drinkable, but should get better with age. But it's a case beer, so tuck into it and brew a batch yourself if U wanna age some.
Hmmmm, I might have 1/2 of mine with a dash of cherry liqueur.
Seth


----------



## Thommo

Weizguy,

No mate, didn't gag - didn't mind it at all.

I had just had a Gueuze for the first time at our BJCP meeting earlier in the week (THAT made me gag), so I found yours a lot more drinkable than that. It's not something I would brew myself, or buy, but if you put something like this in the next case I'll drink it and enjoy it.


----------



## nifty

Hi Weizguy

I enjoyed it as well, light and refreshing. 

Thanks

nifty


----------



## berapnopod

*JBs New (I assume thats Joshs Pilsener)*

Poured foamy (about 2/3 beer 1/3 foam)

Aroma: Strong grassy and vegetal aroma, which I am guessing is a combination of the variety of hops and a decent amount of DMS (dimethyl sulfide). DMS is a common constituent of lagers. Some alcohol in the nose. The foamy head is getting bigger in the glass, so its difficult to smell the beer. After a while of sniffing, this reminds me of a weizen I believe it has the clovey aroma of 4-vinyl guiacol (ok, I am being a bit wanky on the chemistry here).


Appearance: Very thick head forming ice cream texture on the surface. Supporetd by high carbonation in the beer. Beautiful straw colour, Almost clear.


Flavour: Light malt flavour with some hop flavour backing it up. Very low esters, as youd expect in a lager. The bitterness is very low for a pilsner. It is enough to stop the beer tasting too sweet, but its not enough to give it a crisp edge I would associate with a pils.

Mouthfeel: Medium body. A touch of alcohol warmth. High carbonation is not too overwhelming in the mouth (just in the head). The finish has quite a bit of astringency, so I would check that youre not oversparging or anything like that.


Overall: Its a good beer all right. Not quite to style since its low on bitterness and has an unusual aroma for a pils. Also a little too gassy But the overall flavour is what I would expect for a lager. Youve done very well with the fermentation!



Berp.


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## berapnopod

*Nooch's Dark Mild*

Aroma: Very low aroma overall. A hint of alcohol and esters is all I get.

Appearance: Poured very close to flat (thats a good thing in a mild) so no head. Clear. Beautiful deep red colour.

Flavour: Subtle malty flavour, no hops that I can tell. Medium/high esters. Finish is dry and somewhat bitter. All these things are what I would expect from a mild. There's a hint of sourness and harsh drying sensation at the end, which I am guessing is because its a kit beer? There is also a very faint smokey character in there thats very nice.

Mouthfeel: Medium to med/light body. Carbonation is low. No alcohol warmth.

Overall: I think this is a very good representation of the mild style. Subdued and easy drinking. All the characteristics seem to be in the right place with this one - well done! I could suggest just a bit more malt flavour with perhaps a bit of brown or crystal malt. Love the colour!


Berp.


----------



## berapnopod

*Homebrewworld.com's Irish Red*

Aroma: Light malty and fruity aroma - crystal malt? No hops. Overall subdued.

Appearance: Clear. Gold colour (could be darker for an Irish Red). No head formed on the glass, but reasonable carbonation in the beer. Not sure if this is due to the glass or not.

FLavour: Light malty flavour initially. There's some oxidation in here as well. Little hop flavour. Finish is light, clean and dry - very well done on the finish!

Mouthfeel: Medium bosy. Carbonation is medium/high which contributes a slight carbonation bite. A hint of alcohol warmth.

Overall: From the oxidation I assume I am drinking it past its peak. This also tends to reduce any hop flavour/aroma. The beer tastes clean and refreshing which means it is very easy to drink. It is close to the Irish Red style, but I would prefer a darker colour and probably some more malt flavour in there. ie. a bit of crystal/brown or Munich malt.


Berp.


----------



## n00ch

Thanks for the feedback Berp. Nope she's not a kit beer. 

I am going to brew this one again next weekend with a new and improved recipe based on all the feedback/recommendations. 

Hopefully the next turns out a bit better then the first.

Cheers


----------



## Josh

berapnopod said:


> *JBs New (I assume thats Joshs Pilsener)*
> 
> Flavour: Light malt flavour with some hop flavour backing it up. Very low esters, as youd expect in a lager. The bitterness is very low for a pilsner. It is enough to stop the beer tasting too sweet, but its not enough to give it a crisp edge I would associate with a pils.
> 
> Overall: Its a good beer all right. Not quite to style since its low on bitterness and has an unusual aroma for a pils. Also a little too gassy But the overall flavour is what I would expect for a lager. Youve done very well with the fermentation!
> 
> Berp.


Thanks for the review. The low bitterness will be due to it only being FWH. I have adjusted my hopping schedule for the next Pils I make.


----------



## berapnopod

n00ch said:


> Thanks for the feedback Berp. Nope she's not a kit beer.
> 
> I am going to brew this one again next weekend with a new and improved recipe based on all the feedback/recommendations.
> 
> Hopefully the next turns out a bit better then the first.
> 
> Cheers



OK, then I guess the sour tinge and harshness might be an early stage infection. Or the harshness might be due to a high temp fermentation?

Both of these were really very subtle, so I wouldn't worry about them too much.

Berp.


----------



## Trent

Gday all
Just finishing off Duffs Dunkelweizen, and beer that I have been fortunate enough to try twice. First at our BJCP class (cant remember whose generosity I have to thank for that), where it was the first beer I have ever described as having a "toast" flavour. Couldnt detect that tonight, strangely, where the bubblegum flavours were a little more dominant. Grape bubblegum, mmm, takes me back to being a grommet. Anyway, this beer fits all the requirements of a dunkelweizen, and is very very tasty. I didnt realise I wanted to steal the yeast till after I had poured it, and looked at my "yeast to steal" list! Hopefully I didnt muff it. Anyway, my only real concern about it as far as style goes is the bubblegum flavour and aroma is a little too dominant. That said, I like it alot. A damn fine drop that I would be proud to make myself, so thanks for sharing it Duff. As always, if you want my full review, just PM me.
Very sad to see the arse end of this one. Bloody lovely.
All the best
Trent


----------



## berapnopod

*Beer Slayer's APA*

Aroma: Clean aroma with clear US hops there. Not much else - thats not a bad thing though.

Appearance: Very thin head forms a thin ring around the glass but seems to be lasting. Beautifully clear. Dark copper colour.

Flavour: Hops are dominant in the flavour as well. Some malt flavour to keep it from getting one dimensional. Very clean, a touch crisp. Finish is moderately bitter, dry and refreshing.

Mouthfeel: Medium body. Medium/low carbonation. Well attenutated. A touch of astringency, probably from hops.

Overall: An exceedingly clean and refreshing beer. My type of session beer! Its got a good hop flavour to it and enough malt to keep it from being too boring. I would have preferred a bit more bitterness to it, to just cut through it a bit and give it more character as a bitter beer. But other than that I think its an excellent beer. Well done BS!


Berp.


----------



## Trent

Hombrewworld's Irish Red
Just finished this beer, and I must say that I quite liked it. It was heavily overcarbonated, giving me half beer and half foam (in 2 different glasses - had to check), but eventually settled down after a while in the glass to a medium-highly carbonated beer, that has some nice malt character and balancing bitterness, but still balanced towards the malt, if that makes sense. There are a few points that push it a little out of the style of Irish Red, but if HBW wants to hear my "spiel" he can PM me. Despite that, I really enjoyed this beer and found it went down a little too quickly. Good job
All the best
Trent


----------



## berapnopod

*Kungy's Crazy Horse Pale Ale*

Aroma: Strong hop aroma up front: earthy smell. Maybe a little oxidation.

Appearance: Thin head of fine bubble that lasts. Clear. Deep copper/brown colour.

Flavour: Initially hoppy flavour which quickly develops to an assertively/intensely bitter beer. Some underlying malt to balance out all the hops, but definitely a hop driven beer. I find the same earthy flavour of the hop variety. The finish is very bitter, dry and clean.

Mouthfeel: Medium/full body. Medium carbonation (just about perfect). Mouth puckering astringency which will almost certainly be from the hops. Some alcohol warmth

Overall: A very assertive pale ale that shows a good balance of underlying malt, underlying alcohol and punch in your face hops. In fact, a great balance! Can't find anything wrong with this one except that the hop variety is not to my tastes. Better check up on which ones you used. Nice one, Kungy!


Berp.

Edit: Just checked the varieties were Cascade, Chinook and Centennial. The first two I am familiar with and love them. Its unlikely I wouldn't like Centennial, but there is something there that I am smelling and tasting as unusual. At this stage I will have to guess and say its a bit of oxidation, but I really don't know.


----------



## berapnopod

*Schmick's ESB*

Very nice label(s), Schmick!

Aroma: Light malty nose with some alcohol and light esters. A bit of hops in there too.

Appearance: Very thin head - a crescent aronud the edge of the glass. Clear. Red/Brown - a little dark for an ESB.

Flavour: An excellent balcance of malt and hop flavour striaght away. Lots of esters give it a good flavour too.
Quite chewy (I know thats not very helpful, but there you go). Finish is bitter, dry and again chewy. Theres a hint of diacetyl which is giving a nice round sweet finish to the beer. Toffee eventually comes through too.

Mouthfeel: Medium/full body. Carbonation is high and does give a foamy mouth, which detracts from the enjoyment of the beer. Some alcohol warmth.

Overall: An excellent ESB, Schmick! I thinkit has great balance in its ingredients. The only minor flaw I found is that its a bit too gassy in the mouth. But overall beautiful beer!


Berp.


----------



## nifty

Well, i had a nice surprise last night. 

I was going through my beer fridge checking out what yeasts and beers were up the back, and I came across Hopsta's Belgium from the Xmas 2005 case. It was a bit like homebrew archaeology. I don't know how i missed it for all this time, but what a bonus. 

It poured crystal clear, with a beautiful copper colour. I don't know anything about Belgium beers, but I enjoyed this one. It almost had a port type feel to it.

Anyway, after drinking one of my 750ml steams and then this one, I certainly slept well.

Thanks

p.s. sorry, I posted this here because the Xmas in 2005 case thread was locked.


----------



## T.D.

The last couple of nights I have been on a bit of a wheat beer bender. Well, not really a bender given it was only two longnecks but its a hell of a lot more than I would usually have! Anyway, I tried *Duff's Dunkelweizen* and *Weizguy's Berliner Weisse*. I thoroughly enjoyed both. As I hinted to before I am not usually a huge fan of wheat beers, but I must say I am starting to come around to why so many people are obsessed with them. I am not going to fluff on too much about the specific flavours and aromas of the beers because of my lack of experience with the styles. But the Berliner weisse was probably one of the best summer beer styles I can imagine. It was light but I definitely wouldn't have picked 2.8%. Would go down beautifully out in the sun on a summer afternoon. Duff's beer was all class too. I really like this style. I may make one of these soon in my new found appreciation of wheat beers. 

Thanks guys for showing me how nice a wheat beer can be! :beer: 

I also had *Kungy's AIPA* which I thought was a great beer. I spun it out over the entire night. It is very similar to some of the IPAs I have tried from some of the North American micros. I made one recently that was also very similar and funnily enough it also used Cascade, Centennial and Chinook! oth this beer and the one I made had a funny flavour to it which may not be a really bad thing, but if I could get rid of it I would. I think it may just be a combination of high alcohol and high bitterness - gives it a bit of a "tang", that I could do without. Anyway, it was a bloody nice beer. 

I think tonight I will be having Thommo's Californian Common.


----------



## berapnopod

*Thommo's Californian Common*

Aroma: Light hoppy aroma. Also some candy in there. A bit of malt too, but overall, low aroma.

Appearance: Very thin head. Light brown and clear.

Flavour: Flavour is hop dominated with the malt just underneath - an excellent balance. There is a candy suar complexity, which might be from a light crystal malt. Adds a nice touch! Finish is moderately/strongly bitter, and dry. Low esters, as would be expected

Mouthfeel: Medium/light body. Some astringency detected. I'm guessing from the hops.

Overall: A very well made and clean beer. Fits the style well and is very enjoyable as a session beer. Pakcs a good deal of flavour into a light and crisp beer. Great beer Thommo!


Berp.


----------



## Tony

Well i didnt get in on the xmas case thing this time but i will next time for sure.

I tried one of weizguys berliner weisse's last night and it was a great beer.

Definatly a style i will try to brew when i get back on my brewing feet.

cheers


----------



## Duff

NSW Brewers,

Hopefully we should have something ready to go for any interested parties for an end of year case by the second week of September. Just gathering some thoughts from several parties....

Stay tuned, and NO this is not a call to arms :excl:


----------



## MHB

Weizguys Berliner Weissen

I happened to get hold of one of the bonus bottles of Weisguys Berliner Weisen. I am not really a big fan of wheat beer in general; I think that this is partly because by the time we see them most examples are well past their prime.
This was a surprising change and a beer I would be happy to drink again.
Young, fresh clean with just enough of a sour edge to refresh the pallet and leave it ready for another sip, for a beer with a remarkably low 2.5% ABV there is no shortage of body or flavour.

A beer to be proud of

Next time I get my hands on a bottle I will make sure I have some raspberry syrup, Berliners have bean adding Raspberry to this type of beer for a long time - I want to find out why.
If you have a bottle left, try the first glass, then get the yeast into suspension before you pour the second, makes a big difference and explains why this family are called white beers.

MHB


----------



## Trent

Gday all
I tried Gough's Dry Irish Stout the other night, and absolutely loved it. It had a perfect tan head that lasted the whole glass, and it was just like drinking the style guidelines. I guess his "experiment" to find out if a dry stout can be made by the way Ray Daniels recommends proved affirmative. I hope that makes sense, I am TERRIBLY hungover (the host at last nights party was giving me snifter after snifter of Benedictine). Anyway, it wasnt too roasty or anything, well balanced, and a stout I would be bloody proud of.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Gough

Trent said:


> Gday all
> I tried Gough's Dry Irish Stout the other night, and absolutely loved it. It had a perfect tan head that lasted the whole glass, and it was just like drinking the style guidelines. I guess his "experiment" to find out if a dry stout can be made by the way Ray Daniels recommends proved affirmative. I hope that makes sense, I am TERRIBLY hungover (the host at last nights party was giving me snifter after snifter of Benedictine). Anyway, it wasnt too roasty or anything, well balanced, and a stout I would be bloody proud of.
> All the best
> Trent



Thanks mate, I appreciate the feedback. It was a really interesting experiment, and if nothing else I've now got a nice quaffing 4% ABV stout with flavour. Good ol' Daniels, I should never have doubted him :lol: 

Shawn.


----------



## Ross

Sounds really nice Gough - Have you posted a recipe for it?

cheers Ross


----------



## Gough

Ross said:


> Sounds really nice Gough - Have you posted a recipe for it?
> 
> cheers Ross



I haven't Ross, partially because it is not really my recipe as such, and partially because it is just so simple. It was the idea of 10% roast barley in a 1040 (or in this case 1042) OG beer with around 40 IBU that made us look at it and think "that's gunna taste WAY too roasty" which is why we brewed it as an experiment. I'd heard others saying it was the way to go but for some reason the roast always scared me off. Silly really... The result isn't anything really exciting, but it is a nice easy drinking dry stout that at 4% you could have a few pints of with no worries whatsoever. 

FWIW the recipe Warren and I ended up brewing, based on the Daniels quote was:

Recipe: Pogue Mahone
Brewer: Shawn Sherlock/Warren White
Style: Dry Stout
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 36.13 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 77.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 39.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.91 kg TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt (5.9 EBC) Grain 82.0 % 
0.48 kg JWM Roast Barley (1400.7 EBC) Grain 10.0 % 
0.38 kg TF Flaked Barley (0.0 EBC) Grain 8.0 % 
78.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50%] (60 min) Hops 39.0 IBU 
0.54 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast-Ale 


Single infusion mash at 67 degrees. Simplest recipe in the case I'd reckon  

Shawn.


----------



## warrenlw63

Yep.

Basically Shawn and myself brewed beers with identicial grainbills and hops. Only difference being that I used a different yeast. I used Wyeast 1335 (Brit Ale II). Pitched at 13 degrees and fermented at 15 degrees. Clean but character robbing ... We swapped respective bottles. I found that it was a perfect experiment for differing yeasts at opposite ends of the temperature spectrum. 

Mine came out very drinkable but probably too clean and uninteresting for anything more than mindless quaffing and probably suffered a little from subdued roast h34r: . It actually quite bored me after a while.  All that said a very clean beer with very few faults.

Pogue Mahone. (Shawn's) had a little (read pinch) more definied roastiness and noticeable fruitiness from higher pitching and fermentation temps. which made it a more interesting beer and had my mind working through the bottle. I enjoyed it a lot.  

Good project and I'd urge any other brewers to do similar things and compare notes. It's quite worthwhile. :beerbang: 

Warren -


----------



## Weizguy

*Pogue Mahone*
Shawn,

Without too much detail, I found your beer quite drinkable with a very dry finish.
As it's not one of my fave styles, I have little to compare against. IIRC, I could taste hops and esters and the beer was quite complex, which is admirable at that alc %.
Certainly a worthy case member.

*Keith (TBG)'s Foreign Extra Stout*

I got one of the backup beers, and it's a little whopper. Having consumed 2/3 of the bottle, I thought I might put finger to keyboard and report.

The colour is opaque and brown. There is a persistent ring of foam which has followed me for too long (drinking delay due to long phone call). The aroma is roast, choc, coffee and alcohol and a hint of butter (almost masked by the other smells).
Medium-high body and smooth velvety mouthfeel, with a slightly oily aftertaste, which is quite allowable for this style. The flavour is all the above, with sweetness followed by a firm English hop bitterness, which lingers with hand-in-hand with the burnt roast flavr. Nice sipping beer, even at 19C now.

I first sampled a middy from the bottle a few weeks back (prob about 5, actually) and it was not as well integrated as it is now.

Quite a nice beer, and I'd like to hear from anyone else who received one of these.

One last job here. I thought that I might mention the *Berliner Weisse* (brewed by me) which I sampled at MHB the other night with Mark and Tony. This beer is quite nice right now, so go to it. I noticed the "white beer" colour when Mark disturbed the yeast after first pouring a clear beer. There was so much more flavour when the yeast was added. However, I'd caution everyone against disturbing theyeast without tasting the "clear beer" first. Not a bad job and certainly milder in acidity than the 2 previous Berliners I made.
PoMo, do you have an opinion? I know the last beer was filthy, but this one is quite fair, if not superb.
Prob wouldn't get far in a competition coz people (beer judges) don't have any experience of, nor understand the style. I enterd my first Berliner in a comp and was advised by three alleged beer judges that it was "infected". Hell yes! Din't they read the style guidelines. The beer was deliberately contaminated *with lactobacillus*. If it wasn't used, the beer wouldn't be sour. OK Seth, deep breath. It's gone now. The judges determination shall not be subject to review.

Anyway, drink the Berliner Weisse. Enjoy it or not, I don't care...just tell me either way.

Beerz
Seth out


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## Josh

Seth,

Had the Berliner Weiss tonight. Very nice. I could drink tht lall night Feeling fantsastic after a good seesion on the Xmas in JKuly case. I'll post when I'm alomosty done tinguiht.


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## Trent

Seth
They said the beer was infected?!? That'll teach ya to put it in at a school fete  . Are you at liberty to say which comp it was, and if not was it BJCP, where they should have known the style at least, or was it somewhere else? I can just imagine em after the comp "I cant believe all the bad brewers out there. EVERY beer in the Flanders red, brown, Berliner and Lambic categories were all infected. Guess they just dont know enough about sanitation" :lol: 
Dont worry mate, if I judge it this year, I will make sure to put that on your sheet for nostalgic purposes...
All the best
Trent


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## berapnopod

*Weizguy's Berliner Sauer Weisse*

Aroma: The major aroma is a phenolic wheat character. I also smelt a bit of rubber when I opened the bottle, which is yeast autolysis.Next sniff gives me more wheat aroma with spiciness. Other than that, the aroma is clean.

Appearance: Straw colour, very thin head. The clarity is excellent. I know you mentioned its a good idea to ge a bit of the yeast in, so thats what I'll do with the second pint. But the following is for the first (clear one)

Flavour: Assertive sour flavour hits you first. Good clean lactic sourness - not acetic. There is a little graininess in the initial flavour, but thats about it. The finish is a bit more complex with the spicy wheat flavour coming through. Bitterness appears negligible.

Mouthfeel: Light body with medium/low carbonation. A touch of astringency at the finish. Could this be extraction of tannins during the mash? In any case, its not a major part of the beer.

Overall: Weizguy, this is a great beer! I think you've done an excellent job on the BW style! One minor gripe would be that there could be a bit more flavour in there. The other is that I agree with you that it could be more sour. At the moment, it is a very pleasant, easy drinking beer (assuming you like sour beers), more sourness and flavour (eg. malt) would give it more character.

When I add some yeast sediment to the beer, I don't get a significant change in flavour.

Weizguy, you mentioned you had problems with a homebrew comp and one of your BW's. If it was the NSW homebrew comp. please PM me. I tried to PM you a day or so ago on the issue, but couldn't get through.



Berp.


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## berapnopod

*Chilled's Pale Australian Lager*

Aroma: Light Pride of Ringwood hop aroma. No esters, or anything ele for that matter. Very clean.

Appearance: Fine head of medium/karge sized bubbles, dissipating rather quickly.Light gold colour. Clear.

Flavour: There's an initial bitterness in there that stays all the way through the drink to the end. Rather unusual to get that first. The flavour is overall muted and balanced towards the hop side slightly. Very clean beer, as a lager should be. Some slickness on the tongue, which I am putting down to DMS. Finish has the lingering slickness, but is also bitter and crisp.

Mouthfeel: Medium Body. Carbonation feels low, but is probably appropriate for the style. No perceptible alcohol warmth, as it should be.

Overall: This is an excellent example of the style. Very easy drinking. It is well brewed, and the recipe hits the mark well with nothing standing out as wrong in this beer. Nice one, Chilled!


Berp.


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## Chilled

Sorry for my conspicious abscence. Have been on a strict diet (no beer type....ouch) since getting my case and then developed a major cold for the past three weeks. So I have not had any of the Xmas case yet...yipeee all those great beers still to taste. Don't know that my judging abilities are up to those of the past posts but will add any 'general' comments if I feel that they can contribute.
Thanks to TD (finally posted the recipe), Trent and berapnopod for your feedback on my entry. Being new to the game it has been great to get independant 'qualified' feed back.

Cheeers

Chilled


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## KoNG

I've had quite a few of the beers over the last week or so, but havent been able to take any notes. All have been great as you would expect.!! Goughs stout was very nice as was Kieths porter... of the group i've had lately, the one that stood out was weiz's berliner... i wish i'd had it on the weekend in the middle of the day (i had it at 11pm last friday).. it was a great beer and quite distinct, i didnt really think it was too sour.. so all good.
I've nearly finished the case, getting closer to stusters dubbel.. which is last on my list.

Rock on Xmas case :beerbang: 
KoNG


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## Doc

The good news for me is that the warm up beer was a Weinehepstephaner Dunkel HefeWeizen. So this beer had the precidence set.

*Duff's DunkelWeizen*
Good pour, not over carbonated. Maybe a little low on carb. Nice inital head that disapated after a couple of minutes. Probably on the lighter end of the dunkel colour scale, but still a nice medium brown. Nice clarity.
Hint of alcohol in the aroma. A malt driven beer. Some interesting phenols in the flavour. Not off putting, but adding complexity.
Overall a very drinkable DunkelWeizen. I'm enjoying it immensely. 

Now off to read other reviews of the beer.

Doc


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## Stuster

I've been a bit lazy on the review front. Just some quick reviews.

Duff's Dunkelweizen was a nicely drinkable beer. Probably fairly mild on the phenolics for this style but I think I enjoyed it more as it was.

Berto's Oatmeal Stout. Sorry berto, but I think there is something wrong with this one. Mine had a very strange smell which I thought might be autolysis. Not sure though.

Thommo's California Common was an enjoyable drop. Clean, balanced and slipped down all too easily. :super:


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## berapnopod

*Hardman's Golden Sarz Pilsener*

Aroma: Light, malt accented aroma. A hint of apple in there (esters?)

Appearance: Poured with a thin head, but completely disappeared quickly. Not sure if its the glass or the beer though. Beautiful gold color and excellent clarity.

Flavour: Again, an overall light flavour with the accent on the malt. Low esters. Good hop bitterness that does not dominate, but at the same time is assertive. Finish is bitter, dry, with a tangy touch. Not sure if the tanginess is a real sourness or from the carbonation.

Mouthfeel: Medium/full body. Carbonaiton is medium/high, but short of giving a foamy mouth. It does give a carbonation bite to the beer.

Overall: A well made pilsener which is very clean, tastes fresh and has a solid bitterness to back it up. I would have preferred more hop flavour and aroma in this one, but that might be a result of the beer being a bit past its prime and suffering a little. As I said, I am not sure if the lack of the head is my glasses fault or the beer's.
If you find its the beer's then I suggest add a bit of wheat malt to your mash, which does wonders to beer head. Something like 250g in a 20 litre batch should do it.


Berp.


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## Weizguy

G'day,

I sampled some of this over a week ago and allowed the gas to escape for a little while as it was too gassy for a true taste, due to carbonic bite. The bottle was recapped and allowed to sit tin the fridge for some time.

Time to tell you what I thought of *POL's Dortmunder*

First off I get a little banana and maybe some bubblegum like Berp found. I would have expected to find some German hops in there. Not bad so far, but perhaps a little off-target.

The appearance is good for the style, although it was a little cloudy when cold. I'd have to say chill haze, as it's perfect right now.

The flavour is quite malty with a significant ester component. No carbonic bite, though. I'm not an expert, but I'd recommend a cleaner lager yeast, and maybe ferment cooler. I'm tasting significant malt with little apparent bitterness up front, but the bitterness comes through as the malt recedes from the tastebuds. The malt, for me, is heavier than German malt flavour, and the beer is therefore not as crisp as most German lagers (you know I mean pilsners). The malt lingers in a cloying way for me. It may be due to the body and thicker mouthfeel. Maybe a cooler mash temp might help.

Overall, a little cloying for my tastes. Although, as it warmed, and I got to the bottom of my 200ml DAB mini-stein, I was finding it more appealing. Maybe the sweetness was more balanced when warmer, but when cold, sorry to say, was too sweet/fruity for me to consider it a clean Dortmunder. Maybe it's the fact that I was becoming intoxicated?

Background: I have never tasted a Dort in it's homeland, and have only tasted DAB here, and enjoyed it thoroughly.

Conclusion: I would suggest German malt and a Dort/ Danish lager yeast and a cold ferment below 10C. There were some esters in this beer and they don't belong here. The Germans are anal re clean flavours, and this beer falls short of that ideal. There's something in this beer's flavour that stops it from being a session beer for me. A little heavy, but still clean and uninfected (unlike a previous effort of mine - he he).

All of this is my opinion, and is not subject to reality checks or anyone else's impressions. All opinions are subject to review and the scrutiny of my peers.

Seth (Sour blue cheese beer maker of yore) 

* Edited to add further details


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## Josh

Haven't posted much since I was on here a couple of Sunday nights ago. That night I did a number on myself with the following beers from the Xmas in July case:
*Schmick's ESB, DC82's Pilsener, n00ch's Dark Mild, hbw's Irish Red Ale, Chilled's Australian Lager, Beer Slayers's APA, Weizguy's Berlinner Weisse, Berapnopod's Dry Stout and Keith's Chocolate Porter*
Needless to say, after all of those fine beers my wife found me slumped in the computer chair at 4am. They were all very nice, but that Berlinner Weisse from Weizguy was out of this world. Thanks to those who contributed.

Since then I have also had *Gough's Dry Stout* last night and it was excellent too.


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## T.D.

Wow - 9 longnecks in one sitting!! :wacko: 

My hat comes off you you Josh!! :beer:


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## Trent

Gday all
Tried a few beers in the last week or so. 
Weizguys Berliner Weisse was very clean, and extremely refreshing and light. Would be perfect for summer. I think it probably could have done with a bit more sourness for style, but it was pretty much perfect as it was. Hats off to you, Seth. Almost makes me wanna make one now!

Thommo's Cal Common. This one was a very enjoyable beer, I think as far as the style goes, it kinda lacked a little for the hop presence and slight fruitiness of the style. It was very clean, and easy drinking, and I liked it quite a bit, it didnt last very long

Beerslayers APA. Excellent example of an APA. Hate to say it, but it leaves most of mine for dead, very clean, crisp, and easy to drink. My only improvement for it would to add more aroma hops, and maybe ferment a touch warmer for some esters, but that is purely personal. Very nice indeed.

Kieth the Beer Guys bastard Chocolate Porter. Lovely chocolate aroma, with a very slight hint of coffee. Looked like a stout, opaque, with a beautiful tan head. Chocolate translates into the flavour in the light roastiness. Absolutely delicious, wish I had more of them. More a dessert beer than an all night quaffer, and that could be my only criticism, due to the full body (maybe had a high FG?). 
All the best
Trent
EDIT Spacing between beers!


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## Doc

*Berp's Stout*

Had Berp's Stout tonight. Only had it in the fridge for a couple of hours so it was a perfect temp when I opened it.
Good level of carbonation. Very deep ruby notes visible when held up to the light. Great low density head. Super smooth drinking. Could tell it was in the lower alc range, but some great roasty notes with enough body. I really really enjoyed it, and was even thinking this would be a great breakfast beer.

Top job Berp.

Beers,
Doc


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## berapnopod

Thanks for the comments Doc!

*Keith's Bastard Chocolate Porter*

Aroma: Chocolate aroma up front. A hint of vanilla too. Some roastiness.

Appearance: Head quickly dissappated on pouring. Dunno if its the glass or the beer since someone else washed my glass this time *grrr*. Black.

Flavour: Initially a sweet chocolate flavour with notes of toffee/caramel. This slowly develops into a warming beer, with some green apple flavour (acetaldehyde). After this the flavour keeps on coming with a wonderful roasty flavour which gets you right before the finish. The finish itself is roasty, drying from alcohol(s) and a touch tart.

Mouthfeel: Full body with a creamy feel to it. Theres a little hotness in there, which I am guessing is partly acetaldehyde and partly from higher alcohols. This suggests to me it was fermented at a warm temperature. Carbonation is meium/high, which seems just about right. 

Overall: Boy, what a complex beer! There is a LOT going on in here in the flavour, and its really great! Overall, the flavour is *very* similar to Sheaf Stout. I think a lower ferment temperature would take away some of the harder edges next time. Also, the acetaldehyde, as well as a possible papery whiff when I first opened implies there is slight oxidatino of the beer. but thats not too suprising given its a few months old now.


Berp.


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## berapnopod

*Berto's Oatmeal Stout*

Aroma: Some roastiness. Yeast autolysis appears to be quite prominent. Slightly metallic aroma too.

Appearance: Thin tan coloured head of large bubbles. Black with ruby highlights. Clear.

Flavour: Initially there is a disagreeable flavour which I think is the yeast autolysis, so this one's past its prime now. Also tastes plasticky, so this might be an infection. Luckily these flavours don't last too long and the flavour changes to an assertively roasty flavour. Finish is roasty and markedly drying. Bitterness is in the background, which feels like a good level but maybe better with more bitterness.

Mouthfeel: Some alcohol warmth. Medium body. No creaminess that I would expect from an oatmeal stout.

Overall: I assume you used oats in the recipe, so I am not sure why there is no creaminess. Perhaps there is a wild yeast in there that has managed to munch on the starch that would give the creaminess to the style.
It does appear the beer has suffered from the ravages of time, and in particular yeast autolysis. Apart from that, it has a good roast quality to it and the finish is very pleasant.


Berp.


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## Stuster

Had a couple of beautiful beers from the case recently, Kungy's AIPA and Keith's Chocolate Porter. I really enjoyed both of these beers at different ends of the taste spectrum.

The Crazy Horse AIPA had a great hoppiness for my tastes, though I was surprised by both the 60IBUs and the alcohol content. Good clarity and head retention. Nice maltiness to balance the hops.

Keith's B*stard Chocolate Porter was roasty with some tobacco notes. A satisfyingly rich dark beer. (BTW, I got good head retention on my beer berp for this one so...)

I was left regretful they were finished at the end of both these beers. What better compliment can there be. :super:


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## Keith the Beer Guy

Hi,

thanks everyone for the feedback on my beer.

Truth be told I am fairly disappointed with it, and rate it as pretty ordinary. My own take is the flavours are fairly muted given the grain bill. I suspect some oxidation at racking/bottling has dulled some of the character of the beer. Head retention is a problem because I was a lazy git and left break in the primary, or at least thats my understanding.

But anyway... the feedback is much appreciated and I should get off my ass and taste a few more of the case that I have left.

Thanks again,

Keith


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## berapnopod

*Gough's Dry Irish Stout*

Aroma: Estery nose with some woody notes. Low aroma overall.

Appearance: Thick tan head of creamy/fine bubbles that looks like it will last. Black.

Flavour: Mild flavour overall. Initially a flavour of toffee and roasted grains, followed by some fruity esters. Finish is dry, roasty and tart/sour. Bitterness is in the background and supports the roasted flavours very well.

Mouthfeel: Medium/light body. A good deal of creaminess, with just a hint of astringeny at the end.

Overall: I am really loving this stout! It is *very* easy to drink, with nothing offensive whatsoever. but at the same time, it has an assertive roasty flavour that is beautifully balanced by a creaminess, as well as the underlying hop bitterness. The finish leaves you with the impression that you've just drunk a powerful beer, but at no stage is it overwhelming. Excellent stuff, Gough!


Berp.


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## PostModern

*Weizguy's Berliner Sauer Weisse.*

I really enjoyed this beer. After approaching it with some slight trepidation after my experience last year  I was really impressed. It had a very interesting aroma, kinda yoghurty.... but not, sour flavour, extremely refreshing. The complexity added by the lacto culture completely belies the 2.8% strength. What a great beer.

Thanks Seth for re-doing this brew.

Cheers,
PoMo.


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## PostModern

*Nifty's California Common*

I tasted an Anchor Steam this afternoon in preparation for tasting this case entry. In your recipe comments you said "The recipe was derived from reading up on the style in Ray Daniels book, Designing Great Beers and a lot of searching on the web. I still don't know how close I am to style but it tastes ok.". Having tasted them both on the same day, I'd have to say your beer is right on style. It's not a Steam clone, but definately the same ball-park. Bitterness is just right, colour is spot on, nice Northern Brewer hop aroma and flavour. The only major difference I could pick between your brew and Maytag's is a slight fruitiness in your beer which is absent in the Steam. Thoroughly enjoyed this beer.

Thanks.


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## Barry

Good Day
Had Chiled's Aussie Lager last night. Excellent example of the style. Son who was drinking a TED had half a glass and wanted to know who made it (never wanted to know about my beers). Shows what the main stream Aussie lagers should be. 40/50.


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## berapnopod

*Weizguy's Porter*

Aroma: Chocolatey aroma. Some yeast autolysis noticeable. Perhaps a hint of roast too, although I am not sure about this and might be higher alcohols.

Appearance: Thin, dense head of fine tan bubbles that is lasting. Almost black.

Flavour: Initially malty with toffee and caramel, followed by an assertive bitterness which lingers through to the end. After the bitterness comes some esters and then chocolatey malt with some tangy sharpness at the end. I believe this is a bitterness coming from dark grains, perhaps some roasted grains?

Mouthfeel: Medium body. Carbonation is medium and well placed, so gives a good carbonation feel but no bite. A touch of alcohol warmth.

Overall: A well balanced porter with strong malt and hop notes. Not much on hop flavour, but certainly an assertive hop bitterness. Perhaps a little too strong on the bitterness for balance.


Berp.


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## berapnopod

*Stu's Dubbel*

Aroma: Light sugar aroma with caramel. Some alcohol in the aroma but overall quite low.

Appearance: Very thin head forms a crescent around the glass. Red/brown colour. Great clarity!

Flavour: Initially toffee, quickly changing to alcohol and dark malts with a good deal of esters in the heady alcohol warmth. This is followed by an underlying bitterness which beautifully complements the rest of the flavour. The finish is alcoholic, dry and clean, with a lingering toffee flavour.

Mouthfeel: Medium/full body. Medium carbonation. Lots of alcohol warmth.

Overall: Fantastic Dubbel, Stu! This is almost a perfect balance of ingredients for this style of beer - the toffee and candy from the sugars and malt, good deal of esters, some reminiscent of dark fruit (cherries). The bitterness is also well placed, and the alcohol warmth is perfect! You feel it in your head and not in your throat.
Top stuff Stu!


Berp.


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## Weizguy

Berp,

I almost forgot that I made a porter, coz I gave my bottle to someone at work.
I checked the recipe, and you may have tasted crystal, choc and roast barley. Yet there was a bit of hop contribution, with 20ish IBU from EKG and 17ish from Target, and late EKG.

I reckon it may have overattenuated, and the W1318 was the wrong yeast. It seems that W1318 is highly cannibalistic and the wort should not remain on the lees for very long. I saw it as a slight yeastiness.

Thanks for the feedback session, too.

I look forward to your feedback on my weizen in the Xmas case.

Who was I to think that I could pull off a Paddyz Portah? I'm a wheat man. I hoped that might stretch to the half kilo of wheat in the brew, but it's not as instinctive.

Seth out  

BTW: Borret's Mild from the last Xmas case was tasty tonight. Brent - U know what to do if you want more specific feedback. :beer:


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## Borret

Thanks Seth.... send it thru.

I know I wasn't part of this case but I also had the pleasure of dinking one of Weiz'z Berliners on friday night and must say I was suitably impressed. As others have said it was very, clean crisp and slightly tart.... and I could've drunk a whole lot more  A very well brewed beer in my opinion. I have no other examples of this style to compare it to but was impressed by it none the less. Well done mate. B) 

I also look forward to hearing how you went with 'Saison Fou'  

Cheers

Brent


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## Doc

*Weizguy's Berliner Sauer Weisse*

I ended up with two of these after getting the second as a bonus beer for helping sort out the logistics.

Opened the first and poured. Poured well, very light in colour, fluffy head that disappeared quite quickly. Forgot it was a low alc beer and thought the lack of head was a bit weird. Good carbonation for mouth feel though. A great easy drinking refreshing Berliner Weisse. I'm actually just finishing off the second bottle now. Drinking these tonight allowed me to use power tools in the shed to build the stand for the dual-hopback setup. No blood split tonight which must be a first 
Top drop. If anything I'd like to see a bit more alc, but that is prob just me 

Doc


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## Stuster

Weizguy's Berliner Weisse

What a perfect beer for this hot day! Very clear beer, with minimal head, a clean sourness which is still lingering. No need for syrup with this one, Sethie. I don't think it's a beer I'd like to drink lots of but I'm very glad to have tried a beer of this style. Great brewing. :super:


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## Weizguy

Aaaauuw, youse guys....

I'm quite happy with the Berliner too. I'm glad I put this in as a bonus beer.

I only wish it was as classy as Kong's Ale, or as lofty as Barry's Porter. Both exceptional beers in their own right.

I'd like to see a competitive beer from me this year. maybe it's this sour beer...

Beerz
Seth (and 2 SFPAs + 2 Stone's Bitter's) out 

*Edit for content and punctuation under the influence of a single glass of 2 yr old dunkelweizenbock


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## Duff

Another vote for Weizguy's Berliner Weisse. Not as sour as last December's swap (which I enjoyed), just wonderfully light and very refreshing. The pick of the case so far for mine.

Fantastic beer Seth, thankyou for including it as an extra and sharing it with us :beerbang: 

Cheers.


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## berto

I know I'm way behind the times here. still have 1/2 a case form the July swap left which i had hidden. Just cracked POMO's offering and was here looknig for the recipe. I couldn't detect any off flavourings at all. I wasn't doing a full test on it so can't talk about smell etc. but it was an extremely easy drinking beer which was well balanced to my palate. Had the right amount of bitterness for a beer which you can easily pick up in the heat and knock a few over. 

When i got here looking for what others had said i was surprised, but there was no probs here whatsoever. I would be more than happy if the same was offered again.


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## PostModern

berto said:


> I know I'm way behind the times here. still have 1/2 a case form the July swap left which i had hidden. Just cracked POMO's offering and was here looknig for the recipe. I couldn't detect any off flavourings at all. I wasn't doing a full test on it so can't talk about smell etc. but it was an extremely easy drinking beer which was well balanced to my palate. Had the right amount of bitterness for a beer which you can easily pick up in the heat and knock a few over.
> 
> When i got here looking for what others had said i was surprised, but there was no probs here whatsoever. I would be more than happy if the same was offered again.



Cheers berto. 

Best I can work out is that it was oxidised during racking to the bottling bucket and that the yeast has cleaned it up in the bottle. Only those who drank them in the first month or so noticed the oxidisation. Gotta remember what we tell the n00bs sometimes, and just give it more time. I don't think I posted the recipe anywhere. Just JW Traditional Ale malt, 200g light Xtal, some DME and white sugar to get gravity up to 1.045 (iirc, maybe a touch lower). Bittered with Pride Plus flowers, flavour and aroma were EKG plugs.


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## Stuster

Les the Weizguy said:


> Now I'm off to the NSW Xuly case thread to tell Stuster about his Dubbel.
> 
> Seth



Les? Seth? Anyone?


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## Weizguy

*Stuster's Dubbel*

This tasted like something I had before. May have been Duvel, but it's been awhile.
Plenty of fruity Belgian esters and maltiness. Definitely a sipping beer.
I served it in a Chimay glass.
Was this more of a Golden strong Ale? Gotta try this style soon. Have the ingredients already.

Warming alcohol, without vaporous fusels.
Balanced bitterness and mild aged character.
Good to the last warm drop.

Do you have any left?
How did U rate it when younger, and how do U rate it now?

Quite happy, but was lacking some indefinables. Once you find some intrinsic character and coax it out, you can put me down for one of the first cases.

BTW, I missed the express train with your beer samples. Still have them here for later delivery.

Seth


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## Stuster

Good pick, Leseth, as it's the Duvel yeast, 1388. Glad you liked it, but I agree that it's not quite there. It was meant to be a Dubbel. :unsure: I had the last bottle of this several months ago so it's interesting to hear how it's aged. I think it's probably lacking some quality darker malts. Almost all the grain bill was Joe White and next time I'll be trying some Caramunich, CaraAroma etc. I think I'll stick with Trad Ale as the base though. In some old threads wessmith said that it was modelled on Belgian Pale malt. And (look away now neonmeate) I'll probably use some funky sugars like Gula Jawa. Anyway, now I've got Brew Like a Monk, I'll probably change the recipe totally. :lol:


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## Weizguy

Yep, I mave cheated and researched the yeast. That's why I thought it may have tasted like Duvel, but wasn't sure since it's been ages since I had one. Used to visit both the Belgian beer cafes in Sydney.
I can say for sure that Leffe blonde is no longer impressive once U have made a TDA Fly Blown Belgian ale. It's at least as good.

Hope U get a good recipe for the Dubbel. I normally check out other recipes of the style and think about it from there

Just chaffing my way though an Aidan's Irish ale by Doc.

Dang, I'm happy I did that BJCP course. Now, I can describe the beer satisfactorily. I get a moderately high mouthfeel from this beer. I get some roasty fllavours as well as caramel and base malt. The bitterness is there in balanced quantity, and there is strong hop character. Reminds me a freshly hopped hand-pumped ale I drank at the Wig & Pen in Winter or the hand-pumped ale at the Redoak 2 weeks ago. A lingering resinous mouthfeel and taste that hangs on.

I was almost scared to taste my Kase weizen after this big-flavoured and delicious offering...but I did. Now off to the Kase Konsumption thread. (hmmm, I gotta remember to save one for Berp).

Seth


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