# Low Alcohol Tolerant Yeasts



## nuggetron (18/11/12)

in my search for a sweet home brew cider i was wondering if any of the geniuses here were able to help me out here
ive made one cider which the flavour was nice, however the alcohol content was excessively high

i was going to attempt the same/similar recipe, apple and pear juices possibly some more sugars and maybe some flavourings if i feel the need 

now the question
the yeast
i was looking for one that could be killed off when alcohol reached at 6% give or take
is there one commercially available that doesnt impart too much of a flavour that would hinder a beer?
i dont keg, dont understand blast chilling or any other way of stopping yeast
any ideas would be ideal?
i have my ginger beer recipe down pack just need a cider recipe that works so i can save some money


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## twizt1d (18/11/12)

i can understand what you mean but it only takes a few bugs or some wild yeast to get in and rain on your parade
this will probably turn into another 'bottle bomb' thread if your considering bottling with fermentables left over too 

i think your in the same boat as a lot of guys trying to make a sweet cider


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

bugger
thanks man

i will continue my search

might try some small batch trials of attempts, until i find a way to control the yeast


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## marksfish (19/11/12)

maybe you could back sweeten with some lactose.


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## bum (19/11/12)

There's few threads about pasteurising bottled ciders. Seems like a scary proposition to me but have a read of them and see how comfortable you are with the idea. Be aware that this method will make a still cider (unless you want to do it in a particularly dangerous way I recall reading one brewer suggest once).

Having said that, apple juice usually has an OG of around 1050, right? That shouldn't put you a lot over 6%. You should be able to get to your target with a low attenuating yeast and maybe even diluting slightly.


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## JDW81 (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> in my search for a sweet home brew cider i was wondering if any of the geniuses here were able to help me out here
> ive made one cider which the flavour was nice, however the alcohol content was excessively high
> 
> i was going to attempt the same/similar recipe, apple and pear juices possibly some more sugars and maybe some flavourings if i feel the need
> ...



Having made quite a few ciders you are going to struggle to make a sweet cider without adding some lactose, or other unfermentable sugar. There are some sweeter ciders yeasts out there, but it is always going to be difficult (in my experience) to replicate a sweet commercial cider.

Back sweeting with some juice in the glass is a popular method.


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## hobartbrewer (19/11/12)

It's unlikely you'll find a yeast strain that will only do 6% alcohol in my opinion. So you should look at ways to get rid of the yeast at the stage you want.

After carbing you can :-

1) kill the yeast through heating it (and risk bottles exploding due to pressure) . http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove...ng-pics-193295/
2) make the yeast go dormant through cooling it permanently from that point on
3) Add some chemicals like potassium sorbate to poison the yeast (and maybe you to an extent  )

Another method to look into would be restricting nutrients for yeast so that they stop producing at the time you want, but that would be very difficult to repeat I think, and probably impossible with something like natural cidar.

I would only consider #1 and #2. If you have a large fridge #2 would be ok. If you go with #1 then perhaps wear a welders helmet while doing it? Seems the greatest risk of bottle blowing is during heating when the lid is on though.


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

cheers guys
the problem with back sweetening with juice is that it isnt exactly time efficient or party proof, needing to take juice with you cider
not too keen on the boiling
i have a fridge thats for the brewed stuff/ spirits /brewing vessel which is on intermittently to try and control the temperature slightly
i suppose i could try and stop the yeast by turning the fridge on all the time at the coldest settings and see if it will stop the fermentation
poisoning sounds a bit too dangerous for me
the lactose i have tried, i put 1.5 kilos in a 23 litre cider, no effect imo, i think the sweetness is like 1/10th of sugar so you would be needing a fair bit to get the sweetness right

might do a few test batches and see which system works best for me
thanks


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## hobartbrewer (19/11/12)

Another method you could try is upping your alcohol requirement. Apparently some yeasts "die out" at about 8 to 14% alcohol but it would be a trial and error to find out which.

My own belief is pretty much any yeast will do up to 12-14% and the people who achieve less just have a suboptimal wort (lack of nutrients) or suboptimal temperatures. So if you get a yeast which conks out at 12% alcohol and put in enough extra sugar to make say 18% alcohol, you'll have leftover sugar for sweetness and a very alcoholic drink. It would involve a lot of trial and error to get it right though, especially in regards to when to cease primary fermentation so that you can still get carbonation before most of the yeast die.

It would be best to keep a single yeast culture alive so that you are working with the same essential yeast every time, that way you have less variables to contend with.


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## JDW81 (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> i suppose i could try and stop the yeast by turning the fridge on all the time at the coldest settings and see if it will stop the fermentation



If you decide to try and stop fermentation by cooling the cider down you will need to keep it very cold once you have bottled. Any increase in temperature above about 4 degrees the yeast are likely to wake up, start fermenting and you'll end up with something akin to what the Palestinians are lobbing at Israel at the moment (crude bombs/rockets).

I personally don't think it is worth the risk, given the damage an exploding bottle can do.


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## drsmurto (19/11/12)

There are a few options.

1 - sterile filter. 0.2micron will remove all yeast, add sugar, force carb.
2 - high SO2 content. Think sweet white wine. 
3 - pasteurisation as already mentioned, 70C , then force carbonate.
4 - naturally produced sweet cider is caused by starving the yeast of nutrients, some information out there on a number of enthusiast cider sites.
5 - artifical sweetener. The cider kits contain this, enables you to make 'sweet' carbonated cider.

I personally prefer dry cider so have attempted none of these. 

EDIT - the yeast will make minimal difference to the FG. People getting high FGs have somehow stressed the yeast, the sugars in apple and pear juice are simple and full fermentable unlike malt derived sugars. Apple juice should ferment down to 0.998 - 1.000 (approx) if you pitch a healthy yeast in adequate amounts.


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## Juzdu (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> in my search for a sweet home brew cider i was wondering if any of the geniuses here were able to help me out here
> ive made one cider which the flavour was nice, however the alcohol content was excessively high


I believe it was "nathan_madness" that was telling me how to fix this problem of the high alcohol, dry cider you get from a simple ferment of apple juice. If you ferment say 10 litres, and it comes out to say 6% abv, then once the ferment is complete, add maybe 2 litres of the same apple juice, unfermented, which will drop the abv by around 20 %, i.e. to around 4.8%. Then immediately bottle some of your cider into a plastic bottle, and the rest into glass as per normal.

Feel the plastic bottle regularly, waiting for it to become hard, which will tell you when your carbonation is complete. Then take all your glass bottles and put them in 70 degree water for 10 minutes to pasteurise, i.e. kill off the yeast. That will stop any further carbonation.

I haven't tried it yet but will be doing so once my cider is completed fermentation. It's only a week in so won't be for a while yet, i've heard it's a 3-4 week process. He tells me he's done this plenty of times...and i've read a lot about it on cider-dedicated forums overseas....I guess to be careful you want to handle the glass bottles carefully (gloves, long sleeves, eye protection) on your first few goes in case you leave it too long in the bottle....


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## mikec (19/11/12)

Juzdu said:


> I guess to be careful you want to handle the glass bottles carefully (gloves, long sleeves, eye protection) on your first few goes in case you leave it too long in the bottle....


Or use all PET bottles.


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

mikec said:


> Or use all PET bottles.



ironically i have plastic bottles
plenty of them
enough for 4 brews
if i bottle the cider before it finished let it carbonate in the bottle and hopefully the bottle will expand and the yeasts should be killed by ? too high pressure or the CO2 or the lack of oxygen?
will the bottles split or anything?


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## bum (19/11/12)

The bottle would be killed before the yeast. Bad idea.


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## twizt1d (19/11/12)

the only way ive been able to make a sweet cider is to ferment the batch right out then back sweeten in the keg with apple juice
from then on its kept at serving temp and i give the keg a small purge every now and then just incase its slowly fermenting away in there


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

sweet sweet
a few tests to set up next weekend im thinking
i will try the chilled once i have desired alcohol content, maybe try the poisoning technique, may try the boiling one, try the excessive alcohol one and maybe back sweetening with lactose with several bottles to find the right concentration 

thanks everyone 
may be a costly experiment but could be worth it


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

one last question

is lactose fermentable at all?
if i was to sweeten with lactose once it was fermented completely would any further fermentation be likely to happen? or will it be safe to bottle then
happy to bottle into plastic to play it safe


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## hobartbrewer (19/11/12)

The problem I see with lactose sweetening is the fact that milk contains 50g of lactose per litre. So if you drop in say 1kg of lactose (which isn't really sweet at all) into a 20l batch thats the same lactose quantity as milk. Everyone is "lactose intolerant" it's just the matter of degree. Some people are with only one glass of milk, others will exhibit issues after drinking 10 cups.

The reason I mention this is if you are a moderate? beer drinker you can consume nearly 2l of beer in one sitting and thats the equivalent of drinking 2 litres of milk in regards to lactose. If the alcohol doesn't give you the runs the lactose probably will?  And if you give it to friends who are sensitive ... well.


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## hobartbrewer (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> one last question
> 
> is lactose fermentable at all?
> if i was to sweeten with lactose once it was fermented completely would any further fermentation be likely to happen? or will it be safe to bottle then
> happy to bottle into plastic to play it safe



Lactose is too complex a sugar for the yeast to digest, so no, it doesn't ferment.


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## marksfish (19/11/12)

a another thought from left field and i admit i have N.F.I if it would work is stevia fermentable?


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

hobartbrewer said:


> The problem I see with lactose sweetening is the fact that milk contains 50g of lactose per litre. So if you drop in say 1kg of lactose (which isn't really sweet at all) into a 20l batch thats the same lactose quantity as milk. Everyone is "lactose intolerant" it's just the matter of degree. Some people are with only one glass of milk, others will exhibit issues after drinking 10 cups.
> 
> The reason I mention this is if you are a moderate? beer drinker you can consume nearly 2l of beer in one sitting and thats the equivalent of drinking 2 litres of milk in regards to lactose. If the alcohol doesn't give you the runs the lactose probably will?  And if you give it to friends who are sensitive ... well.



funny story, i am lacotse intolerant, but still drink milk like crazy, up to half a litre a day
i would probably max drink one long neck a sitting, more likely to mix my drinks cause im a bad ass hahah

very good point about the lactose intolerance though
i suppose if i can try it and see what the total amount will be that will need to be added and if it is bordering on being excessive i might just have to put up with back sweetening

found this
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/results-ju...eriments-83060/

agave nectar doesnt ferment
thats interesting
i could use that with pear juice being the main juice
15 litres of pear juice, 5 of apple and 3 of a flavoured juice, agave nectar, pear juice might just hold up and hide the agave flavour but lets the agave sweetness remain


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## hobartbrewer (19/11/12)

marksfish said:


> a another thought from left field and i admit i have N.F.I if it would work is stevia fermentable?



Good question. I use Stevia when I'm doing low carb dieting and it's pretty decent taste wise compared to the artificial stuff. My initial reaction is the yeast wouldn't consume it so it may be worth a look into.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/using-stev...n-cider-149864/


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## hobartbrewer (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> funny story, i am lacotse intolerant, but still drink milk like crazy, up to half a litre a day
> i would probably max drink one long neck a sitting, more likely to mix my drinks cause im a bad ass hahah
> 
> very good point about the lactose intolerance though
> i suppose if i can try it and see what the total amount will be that will need to be added and if it is bordering on being excessive i might just have to put up with back sweetening



Well everyone has a limit on the amount of lactose they can consume within a time period. For some people it's just a real low amount. Give anyone 4 liters of milk in an hour and they'll be shitting the toilet out real soon.  It's one of those sugars where you really don't want to be consuming much of it at all really. Since I drink fairly often it's not something I'd add to any of my alcoholic drinks.

Another natural non fermentable sugar to look into is xylitol, they use this in dental candy as bacteria dies when it eats it. You cannot eat much of this though without getting volatile explosions (about 40-80g in a sitting will set you off from personal experience). I just did a google search and found this :-

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/xylitol-do...379/index2.html

I just wondered if it could be used to kill yeast like they claim it kills bacteria.... that guys results seem mixed in regards to killing yeast, but some said they used it to backsweeten with good results.I also wonder if adding xylitol to a brew could help kill any foreign bacteria in it and stop infections from occurring... interesting.


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## labels (19/11/12)

Slightly Off Topic
I am not a cider drinker but had a Bulmers on tap the other day. It poured and looked like beer, same colour and had a head so it's obviously not pure fruit juice. It even had the body of beer!

I don't know what they're puttng in it, malt maybe but it was sweetish and if what they're adding is not fermentable then you have your answer.

Steve


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## JDW81 (19/11/12)

hobartbrewer said:


> Everyone is "lactose intolerant" it's just the matter of degree. Some people are with only one glass of milk, others will exhibit issues after drinking 10 cups.



No they aren't, only people who lack the small intestinal brush border enzyme lactase are lactose intolerant.


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

prehaps a mix of lactose and xylitol will create a sweet enough brew without the laxative effect
from my biochemistry understanding they effect people differently to one another and so hopefully one of 3 happen
1. the effects cancel one another out (ideal but least likely)
2. the effects work together and you spend the night on the toilet
3. the effects are both present but do not work together (ideal if in low enough concentrations)

may do a few hours of intense research at work to find a sugar or something sweet that is non fermentable and preferably non-laxative effect

the xylitol sound promising, 1.25 cups to 23 litres is quiet promising, i may do a test sample in cups with sugar seeing as it has the same sweetness to determine if 1.25 cups is sufficient, i cant see any problems in terms of laxative effects with only 1.5 cups max of it in 23 litres
works out to be only 12 grams in a 750 ml bottle for 375 grams of xylitol


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

JDW81 said:


> No they aren't, only people who lack the small intestinal brush border enzyme lactase are lactose intolerant.



could lactase be added in to the brew to cut the lactose up or will this in turn (if possible) make the lactose fermentable?


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## JDW81 (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> could lactase be added in to the brew to cut the lactose up or will this in turn (if possible) make the lactose fermentable?



Lactose is made up of galactose and glucose so splitting the lactose would give you one of each. I don't know if galactose is fermentable (I presume it is as it is a simple sugar) but all you'd be doing is adding a stack more fermentable material giving you a dryer and stronger brew.


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

JDW81 said:


> Lactose is made up of galactose and glucose so splitting the lactose would give you one of each. I don't know if galactose is fermentable (I presume it is as it is a simple sugar) but all you'd be doing is adding a stack more fermentable material giving you a dryer and stronger brew.



cheers man
if only i could of been bothered to listen in biochem and molecular biology


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## JDW81 (19/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> cheers man
> if only i could of been bothered to listen in biochem and molecular biology



I only know this cause I've got a gastro exam for uni on Friday. By saturday it will be forgotten


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## nuggetron (19/11/12)

JDW81 said:


> I only know this cause I've got a gastro exam for uni on Friday. By saturday it will be forgotten



the way it should be


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## [email protected] (19/11/12)

Going on from what labels said, have you tried using some LDME?

The best bottled ciders (for my tastes) have been the ones i have used LDME and a tin a pear juice. Fermented with Wyeast cider they have finished 1006 - 1008 which is still dry, but not 1000 or less dry. 

Tin of pear juice and enough apple juice to make up to 10L plus 200g LDME and some yeast nutrient, Ferment at 16 degrees

The malt gives a little mouth feel which also helps lower the perception of dryness. 

If you after sweetness like that of a lot of the commercial crap going around these days you need to do as already mentioned and filter / sweeten /keg.


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## Sam England (19/11/12)

The only success I've had without back-sweetening is with Potassium metabisulphite as per the wino's approach. Dr S mentioned it earlier in this thread, but you are stuck with force carbing. I tried a few litres this year in a spare keg, where you let it ferment to the desired taste, chuck the appropriate mix in and then force carb. It wasn't too bad, but I've actually begun to develop a taste for the drier style. Surprising what 30L a year will do for you!! I also prefer to keep the kegs free for beer and only brew the cider to use up spare apples from the orchard.
Cheers,
BB


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## Juzdu (19/11/12)

mikec said:


> Or use all PET bottles.


Again it was nathan_madness who told me this is a bad idea, he said cider is very susceptible to oxidation in plastic bottles, hence why the cider gurus out there are doing the "1 in plastic, rest in glass" trick, then pasteurising once the plastic bottle gets hard.

And yes, you need to also pasteurise the plastic bottles once they get hard or they will blow too.


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## hobartbrewer (20/11/12)

JDW81 said:


> No they aren't, only people who lack the small intestinal brush border enzyme lactase are lactose intolerant.



Yah they actually are. Your bodies ability to create the lactase enzyme is limited, for everybody, which means everyone has a point of lactose consumption which will give them the exact same problem. 

"Lactose Intolerance" is usually reserved for people that have a very low lactase production, but everyone has a limit. Even those with the lactase persistence mutation would have difficulty downing 2-4 liters of milk in a few hour sitting, more so on a constant basis.


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## bum (20/11/12)

You guys make me laugh sometimes. Alcohol is a known carcinogen and you're arguing about lactose intolerance...



Juzdu said:


> cider is very susceptible to oxidation in plastic bottles, hence why the cider gurus out there are doing the "1 in plastic, rest in glass" trick


I'd ask the "gurus" (aka anyone with a keyboard) how long they were holding on to their ciders before drinking before I accepted this as a rule for myself. If you're not holding on to a batch for ageing then PET is fine. Some people prefer glass and that is alright but to say PET is no good at all is stupid.


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## hobartbrewer (20/11/12)

bum said:


> You guys make me laugh sometimes. Alcohol is a known carcinogen and you're arguing about lactose intolerance...



Well spending 30 minutes on a toilet unnecessarily isn't exactly... wait we are males... never mind.


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## Juzdu (20/11/12)

bum said:


> PET is no good at all


Really? I didn't realise it was no good at all.


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## nuggetron (20/11/12)

my research so far 
xylose/xylitol
Xylitol has no known toxicity in humans. In one study, the participants consumed a diet containing a monthly average of 1.5 kg of xylitol with a maximum daily intake of 430 g with no apparent ill effects.[31] Like most sugar alcohols, it has a laxative effect because sugar alcohols are not fully broken down during digestion; albeit one-tenth the strength of sorbitol.[clarification needed] The effect depends upon the individual. In one study of 13 children, four experienced diarrhea when consuming over 65 grams per day.[32] Studies have reported adaptation occurs after several weeks of consumption.[32]
Adaptation, an increase of the laxation threshold, occurs with regular intake. Xylitol has a lower laxation threshold than some sugar alcohols, but is more easily tolerated than others such as mannitol and sorbitol
-wiki (take of it what you want)
65 grams a day is excessive
lets assume a 23Litre batch of cider would need 500 grams to make it ridiculously sweet
500 grams in to 23 litres = 23.5 litres or there abouts, which comes to only 16 grams in a 750 mL long neck
65 grams of xylitol is 4 long necks, i would never go near that in a day
the more you drink the lesser the effect which is ideal, if you use it instead of normal sugar in your coffee/teas etc and slowly introduce yourself to it
at the moment xylitol is leading the non fermentable sugars
Daily intakes of 30-40 grams of xylitol per day is safe, but can have a laxative effect and cause diarrhea in some people. While there are exceptions and some people have built-up much larger tolerances, daily intakes of over 50 grams of Xylitol per day can have a laxative effect on many people.
-xylitolnow.com (not biased at all)

nice non-biased study
http://www.ecogreenoleo.com/Sugar_Alcohols.pdf
the good 
100 grams dissolves in 100 mls of water at 1 degree
the same sweetness as sucrose (as said previously)

im pretty set on xylitol, just need to find a place to buy it and give it a go
thinking of putting it in some sour/dry apple juice or something sour/dry to see the sweetness and if any direct effect on me, the drinker
then i can brew the cider put it in to a few cups and test to find the right concentration
i may fill a bottle throw the correct amount of xylitol in to see if anything ferments, if not then fill up the brewing vessel according to the concentration

and at $15.50 a kilo it isnt too pricey


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## hobartbrewer (20/11/12)

You'd probably need to drop 1 to 1.5kg of xylitol into a 23L batch to have it properly sweetened I guess. It isn't "that much" sweeter than normal sugar and has a cooling effect on the tongue. I have 750G here and used to eat a lot of it when on a weird diet, it's certainly interesting that much is for sure. No real aftertaste though, just the cooling sensation which may be pleasant in some drinks, not so in others.

Compared to lactose though this thing will make anyone shit explosive water (literally) if they take too much. But it's usually without cramps or anything of that nature. So be warned I guess. Might be a fun drink to give guests  .


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## nuggetron (20/11/12)

xylitol is found in gum and candy, foods like mushrooms, lettuce, cauliflower strawberries etc, which is perfect cause i eat plenty of those which may mean i have a slight tolerance for it


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## hobartbrewer (20/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> xylitol is found in gum and candy, foods like mushrooms, lettuce, cauliflower strawberries etc, which is perfect cause i eat plenty of those which may mean i have a slight tolerance for it



Unlikely. Gum and candy have miniscule amounts. Once you get some, have 4 tablespoons and wait 10-15 minutes and you will see.  I've done this to a few people.

For me personally over time I didn't gain a tolerance to it, if anything it got worse for me. This was over a 2 month period where I had it in every coffee I had (about 2-3 tablespoons a day roughly). Perhaps you need to wait longer to gain a tolerance or I was overdoing it. I didn't mind it too much personally, it's almost like a cleanse. Whereas excessive lactose is painful.


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## nuggetron (20/11/12)

hobartbrewer said:


> You'd probably need to drop 1 to 1.5kg of xylitol into a 23L batch to have it properly sweetened I guess. It isn't "that much" sweeter than normal sugar and has a cooling effect on the tongue. I have 750G here and used to eat a lot of it when on a weird diet, it's certainly interesting that much is for sure. No real aftertaste though, just the cooling sensation which may be pleasant in some drinks, not so in others.
> 
> Compared to lactose though this thing will make anyone shit explosive water (literally) if they take too much. But it's usually without cramps or anything of that nature. So be warned I guess. Might be a fun drink to give guests  .



had to rain on the parade
i would ask how sweet you find it when mixed in a drink but sweetness isnt easily measured and varies between people too much
cooling effect is interesting, in a cider would it be a positive effect, i drink cider particularly when it is hot out side and the cider is freezing cold, so i suppose the cooling effect wouldnt be noticed or would appear to be extremely refreashing
this diet with xylitol, how much where you going through a day? did you experience a laxative effect? were they less frequent effects as the diet went on; assuming you lasted a few weeks on the diet


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## hobartbrewer (20/11/12)

nuggetron said:


> had to rain on the parade
> i would ask how sweet you find it when mixed in a drink but sweetness isnt easily measured and varies between people too much
> cooling effect is interesting, in a cider would it be a positive effect, i drink cider particularly when it is hot out side and the cider is freezing cold, so i suppose the cooling effect wouldnt be noticed or would appear to be extremely refreashing
> this diet with xylitol, how much where you going through a day? did you experience a laxative effect? were they less frequent effects as the diet went on; assuming you lasted a few weeks on the diet



I would shit about 2-4 times a day on xylitol, all times very watery. So yes, it had a laxative effect. But instant coffee also has a similar effect and I had them together, so perhaps its slightly exaggerated. It would be regular, have xylitol+coffee, 30-60 minutes later shit. I'd usually have about a tablespoon per cup and maybe 2-3 cups a day.

You may be different though so no harm in seeing what your own tolerances are. There is no "aftertaste" as such with xylitol which makes it pretty unique. But it doesn't taste the same as sugar either. I have no idea how it will taste in a brew, I may find out soon.


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## nuggetron (20/11/12)

may try a bottle with it mixed in and if its good im happy if not then its dry ciders from now on
cheers man


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## staggalee (23/11/12)

hobartbrewer said:


> Compared to lactose though this thing will make anyone shit explosive water (literally) if they take too much. But it's usually without cramps or anything of that nature. So be warned I guess. Might be a fun drink to give guests  .



But that would mean going out of your way to give people the shits.You wouldn`t want to do that, surely?


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## hobartbrewer (23/11/12)

staggalee said:


> But that would mean going out of your way to give people the shits.You wouldn`t want to do that, surely?



As a gag to your mates late on a Friday night when all shame is lost... would be pretty funny. As long as you weren't at your house because who wants to clean the toilet, lawn and floor up after that....


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## nuggetron (28/11/12)

ok guys
soooooo i found out that xylitol is a prohibited import if you plan on getting it from overseas so just a warning


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## GuyQLD (29/1/13)

I know this is a bit of a bump, but looking at doing my first batch of mead pretty soon and one of those annoying questions I couldn't find the answer to popped up. What happens to yeast when it reaches the upper limits of it's alcohol tolerance? Does it die or simply go dormant? 

My reason for asking is simple, if I used something like Wyeast semi-sweet yeast, which goes up to about 12% in a must that has enough sugar to support a little over that, I end up with a sweet mead (at least as far as I understand). At which point, what does diluting then do to the mead? 

For example, if I wanted to make a semi sweet of around 9% or so, can I simply make it up to say (and I'm pulling this out my arse at the moment) 15L instead of 20L with the same fermentables, wait until it's completely finished, 3 months etc... then dilute to the correct volume and age? 

I couldn't actually find anything on google to that affect. It's probably idiotic, but hey! Sometimes you've gotta ask.


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## barls (29/1/13)

theres always the possibility once you dilute the yeast will start


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## GuyQLD (29/1/13)

That's pretty much what I figured, in fact it'd probably do such nasty things to the poor bugger it'd taste horrible afterwards. I guess I'll just cut back a litre or two and make it a bit stronger, that's half the fun right?


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## barls (29/1/13)

the other option is to change your yeast to something clean like us05 and build it as a 15% but it will only go to about 9 at the most.


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## GuyQLD (30/1/13)

Hmm, that's something to consider when you consider that 2 packs of Us 05 will save me stuffing around with starters, worrying about viability etc etc.. and cost me the same amount as a smack pack. I've only got enough honey to do up to around 12% at 19L or so, Even a steller US 05 probably wouldn't go that high I would imagine so should easily leave enough residual sweetness to keep the masses entertained. I personally would probably prefer it a touch dryer anyway, so that might work out well. 

Anyone got any experience with US05 in this application? The US brewers seem to prefer the wine strains, but there's a few mentions of US05.

*Edit: Notto gets mentioned a fair bit as well.


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## barls (30/1/13)

i used 1388 at one stage made a decent mead. never used us05 for mead. i do like D47 for a mead and want to try 71b next time.


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## Airgead (30/1/13)

barls said:


> i used 1388 at one stage made a decent mead. never used us05 for mead. i do like D47 for a mead and want to try 71b next time.


71B is my goto yeast if I want to make something sweeter. it tops out at around 12%-13% from memory so I can make a sweet or semi sweet without needing to make rocket fuel to get there.

Cheers
Dave


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## labels (30/1/13)

I used champagne yeast which will hit 18% under the right conditions.

My goal was to make a sweet mead with about the same alcohol as fortified wine and about the same sweetness - think port wine.

It took nearly two years, racking and adding fresh yeast from time to time along with nutrient. When the alcohol topped out I kept adding honey until I had the desired sweetness.

It ended up being a little cloying so I added 500g of citrus peel (from the supermarket cake section) for a couple of weeks. The citrus took away the cloying entirely without impacting on the honey taste.

In the end, a great mead that I sip from a port glass in winter.

-=Steve=-


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## Airgead (30/1/13)

labels said:


> I used champagne yeast which will hit 18% under the right conditions.
> 
> My goal was to make a sweet mead with about the same alcohol as fortified wine and about the same sweetness - think port wine.
> 
> ...


Good way to do a really strong mead. The other (much quicker) way is to use a base mead which has the flavor you want then fortify it with a spirit (like brandy) and then sweeten with honey to taste. The fortification prevents refermentation if you fortify strong enough (over 18% usually works).

Cheers
Dave


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