# Rack For Biab - Any Ideas?



## Stuffa (23/4/11)

I've been using 32cm cake cooling racks in the bottom of my 50L converted keg to keep the bag from melting on the bottom whilst doing step mashes, mash outs etc. These work great but are chrome plated and tend to corrode around where all the wire is welded together. I would prefer a stainless rack but can't find anything the right size and shape to fit. What are others using?


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## RdeVjun (23/4/11)

Mine is just a chrome jobbie. Yeah, its looking a bit past it, but I don't use it very often as I don't mashout in the regular way.


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## Rodolphe01 (23/4/11)

I use a stainless colander in my urn, i fish it out before the boil.


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## maxmcbain (23/4/11)

I use a colander as well


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/4/11)

I've no issue with people using some sort of rack/grid/shield thing in their kettle, but I don't think such a thing is actually strictly necessary unless you're doing something that I do not.

I currently brew with a four-ring gas burner and in over one hundred gas-fired brews have not felt the need. I always BIAB mash-out and often throw in some other temp rests (I played with Hochkurz regimes for a while, as a f'rinstance.)

The simple rule is that whenever there is heat being applied to the kettle, I stir. I'd do that if I were mashing in a direct-fired tun - even without the bag - to avoid scorching the grain.


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## brett mccluskey (23/4/11)

I just continue to use my standard mashtun set up.A perforated disc fb with a frypan 'splatterguard' .The latter is a stainless mesh screen available in the kitchen section of supermarkets.Popped the plastic handle insert out,bent the frame 90deg,cut a hole in the centre of the screen and mounted it on the fb using the standard elbow.Makes a great hop screen too :drinks:


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## Bribie G (23/4/11)

The only reason I can think of for using a rack is if you are applying direct heat to the vessel while the bag is resting on the bottom. 

I raise the liquor to strike temp in the urn, then switch off, dough in and lag the urn with a sleeping bag and doonah, losing around a degree per hour max.
Then I raise the bag just off the element, switch on for about 10 minutes and then switch off.
Lower bag and pump the mash for the mashout.
Raise the bag right up and switch on, draining the bag as the wort comes to the boil. 

At no time does the bag material come into contact with a surface that's going to be hot enough to damage it.
Rather than racks, I'd be looking at the best possible lagging and a skyhook.


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## canon1ball (23/4/11)

The front grill of a fan, found in the council clean up, that's what I'm using.


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## Stuffa (23/4/11)

Thanks for the replies,

I like Toper1's idea, this looks good: http://www.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Kitche...ter-Screen-33cm . Just cut the handle off.

I run a Rambo burner and have burnt a hole in my bag once. I like having a rack under the bag as this way I don't have to raise the bag whilst having the flame on, this way I can stir while gently raising temps or ramp up the burner for quickly raising temps. Stirring while raising temps also ensures you hit the right mash temp.

Cheers
Chris


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## felten (23/4/11)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> I've no issue with people using some sort of rack/grid/shield thing in their kettle, but I don't think such a thing is actually strictly necessary unless you're doing something that I do not.
> 
> I currently brew with a four-ring gas burner and in over one hundred gas-fired brews have not felt the need. I always BIAB mash-out and often throw in some other temp rests (I played with Hochkurz regimes for a while, as a f'rinstance.)
> 
> The simple rule is that whenever there is heat being applied to the kettle, I stir. I'd do that if I were mashing in a direct-fired tun - even without the bag - to avoid scorching the grain.


Same here, have never had an issue with melting bags. Just keep the mash moving while you're applying heat.


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## Thirsty Boy (23/4/11)

With spills.

No need for anything in the bottom of the pot, even if you are applying direct heat with the bag on the bottom of the pot. A rack/FB whatever isn't going to hurt anything, but its a belts and braces type approach. Yu need to stir while adding heat regardless of whether you have a rack or not, and if you do stir... You dont need the rack.

Different if you have a fixed electric element - you'd need something to keep the bag away from that in case it got tangled around it or something.

Bribie's trick works too - but skips some of the nice things that happen when you actually do stir your mash. Good if you are too lazy to stir or have a fixed electric element (like an urn)


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## brett mccluskey (23/4/11)

Stuffa said:


> Thanks for the replies,
> 
> I like Toper1's idea, this looks good: http://www.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Kitche...ter-Screen-33cm . Just cut the handle off.
> 
> ...


Go to your local Safeway and get a guard from there,only $6/7,If your keg is the same as mine,the bottom is slightly 'bowl' shaped.Ifound that with the fb and the guard together,it was the right height from the bottom to 'level' things out.The one with legs ,in your link would sit too high.Like i said, my system was my standard mt setup,not specially designed for BIAB,and you probably don't need a 'stand',but the guard also makes a fantastic hop filter screen from the kettle :icon_cheers:


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## Amber Fluid (8/12/11)

BribieG said:


> The only reason I can think of for using a rack is if you are applying direct heat to the vessel while the bag is resting on the bottom.
> 
> I raise the liquor to strike temp in the urn, then switch off, dough in and lag the urn with a sleeping bag and doonah, losing around a degree per hour max.
> Then I raise the bag just off the element, switch on for about 10 minutes and then switch off.
> ...



Bribie - is this still your procedure for a mashout?
I am looking at incorporating a mashout but have been worried about the bag scorching on the element (even though it is concealed.)




Thirsty Boy said:


> With spills.
> 
> No need for anything in the bottom of the pot, even if you are applying direct heat with the bag on the bottom of the pot. A rack/FB whatever isn't going to hurt anything, but its a belts and braces type approach. Yu need to stir while adding heat regardless of whether you have a rack or not, and if you do stir... You dont need the rack.
> 
> ...


TB - You say Bribie's trick works fine but it skips some of the nice things that happen when stirring. Would you mind elaborating for me please as to the pros and cons of the suggested procedure?

I use a Crown Urn with a concealed element and am thinking of doing a mashout to improve my efficiency but am hesitant due to possible scorching of the bag and feel that including a rack or similar is a waste of time and would be 1 more thing to clutter up my storage space. (only have one bag atm) 

Also I need to get this straight.... for a mashout - after your "rest" (mash) period you raise the temp for say 10 minutes to say 75C. Is this 10 minutes once temp is at 75C or is 10 minutes from the time you start adding heat?


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## Truman42 (8/12/11)

Amber Fluid said:


> Bribie - is this still your procedure for a mashout?
> I am looking at incorporating a mashout but have been worried about the bag scorching on the element (even though it is concealed.)
> 
> 
> ...



I would like to do a mash out but use an urn with an exposed element. I'm assuming even with stirring, the element would still burn the bag as it touches it directly. 

What exactly is "A perforated disc fb"?


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## Bribie G (8/12/11)

I use one of these, around $15 from a kitchen shop. 







I also discovered it's a good idea to tie some brickies twine onto it so you can fish it out


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## Truman42 (8/12/11)

Bribie G said:


> I use one of these, around $15 from a kitchen shop.
> 
> View attachment 50791
> 
> ...



What diameter is your urn Bribie? Mines 30cm. Are they all about that and vary in height only????

Ive actually looked in just about every $2 shop etc I come across and still haven't found anything suitable.


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## Bribie G (8/12/11)

It fits a Crown perfectly and would be a bit looser in a Birko. You'll generally only get these from MasterCheffy stores like House or the like.


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## Truman42 (8/12/11)

Bribie G said:


> It fits a Crown perfectly and would be a bit looser in a Birko. You'll generally only get these from MasterCheffy stores like House or the like.



Thanks mate I think theres a house at the shopping centre here so will check it out. Cheers


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## egruz (3/4/12)

I know it's an old thread, but I've just seen those 'splashguards' at Kmart for $3 and it says on the pack that it is stainless steel.

You'd have to saw the handle off, and raise it off the bottom of the pot a little somehow though. $3 is pretty good though for stainless steel. 

//Graham


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## Bribie G (3/4/12)

I looked at the splatter guards but they are a bit big for urns and they are meant for big frying pans. Wouldn't hurt to go into the store with a ruler and check them out, though.


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## bignath (3/4/12)

Is it a bad thing to use an aluminium colander?

Have been thinking of BIAB racks the last few days, and came across some really good designs in local shops. I can get a good size aluminium one that will cover my element idea i want to do, but not sure if the material will be problematic.

Dont want to start an aluminium vs stainless debate as theres enough of them already, but what about using both at the same time? Does using the two metals together make one leach stuff out more?


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## Camo1234 (3/4/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> Also I need to get this straight.... for a mashout - after your "rest" (mash) period you raise the temp for say 10 minutes to say 75C. Is this 10 minutes once temp is at 75C or is 10 minutes from the time you start adding heat?



Amber - Did you ever get your answer to this question? I am keen to know this as well... Only up to my 5th BIAB and haven't really got my head around whether I should do my 75min mash and start heating again for 10 mins or heat till I get to 75 and leave for 10 mins at 75? (stirring the whole time as well?)

I also have a Crown, concealed element so it usualy takes the whole 10 mins to get anywhere near the 75C!

Cheers, Camo


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## pk.sax (3/4/12)

The purpose of the mashout is to a) Denature the enzymes and lock in the sugar profile & B) make the mash runnier.

point a) would make me think that the 10 minutes is to ensure all the enzymes are killed & to ensure all of it has reached that temp so there aren't any dense colder spots left over.


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## iralosavic (3/4/12)

Enzyme denaturing is not an instantaneous process, so time must be given to allow the remaining starch to gelatinise. I'm not sure on the scientific/mathematical justification for "10 minutes", but it seems to be widely accepted as... long enough, I guess. I'm fairly sure I've read a study (a long time ago) that mentioned that higher mash-out temperatures can convert more of the remaining starches to sugars, but this does not necessarily imply a superior mash efficiency as the final gravity will end up higher due to the presence of more of the less fermentable sugars that are released at higher temperatures in the mash. I could be remembering wrong though.


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## Bribie G (3/4/12)

Any sugars converted at higher temperatures would be mostly unfermentable, as they would be in the form of dextrins.


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## pk.sax (3/4/12)

http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2008/05/05...uring-mash-out/

This seems to contradict what I regurgiated above


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## stux (3/4/12)

practicalfool said:


> http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2008/05/05...uring-mash-out/
> 
> This seems to contradict what I regurgiated above



Ahhhh, but it does make the mash runnier which is the primary benefit in BIAB


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## pk.sax (4/4/12)

Another multiple personality disorder!?


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## iralosavic (4/4/12)

haha Stux. Yes, the reduction in wort viscosity is the most significant/obvious benefit of mash-out for me...


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## Amber Fluid (4/4/12)

Camo1234 said:


> Amber - Did you ever get your answer to this question? I am keen to know this as well... Only up to my 5th BIAB and haven't really got my head around whether I should do my 75min mash and start heating again for 10 mins or heat till I get to 75 and leave for 10 mins at 75? (stirring the whole time as well?)
> 
> I also have a Crown, concealed element so it usualy takes the whole 10 mins to get anywhere near the 75C!
> 
> Cheers, Camo




No, I didn't get an answer and it appears no answer forthcoming either. Makes me wonder if people actually know or are they guessing what to do and don't want to say in case they are proven wrong...... Nevertheless, what I have been doing, and not to say it is the right thing to do, is raising the bag off the bottom and applying heat at 10 minutes before mash time has finished. This usually gets me close to 75C then I leave it at 75C for another 10 minutes.

I have no idea if this is the right procedure but seems to be working ok for me and I am happy to read of a better process so I can employ.


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## iralosavic (4/4/12)

I answered the question, allbeit in my own fart-arsed manner!


> Enzyme denaturing is not an instantaneous process, so time must be given to allow the remaining starch to gelatinise. I'm not sure on the scientific/mathematical justification for "10 minutes", but it seems to be widely accepted as... long enough, I guess.



To make it as clear as possible: yes, mash-out involves a 10 minute rest. The time it takes to rise the temperature to your target mash-out temp would vary from one person/system to another, so specifying a ramping length in a recipe would be a rather misleading thing to do.


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## Thirsty Boy (4/4/12)

practicalfool said:


> The purpose of the mashout is to a) Denature the enzymes and lock in the sugar profile & B) make the mash runnier.
> 
> point a) would make me think that the 10 minutes is to ensure all the enzymes are killed & to ensure all of it has reached that temp so there aren't any dense colder spots left over.



no its not - not in BIAB anyway.

mashout in BIAB is about 2 things. Efficiency and starch conversion.

*Starch Conversion* - BIAB is not the ideal mash environment - people can bleat and moan all they like, but it isn't. BIAB also misses the vorlauff step that a normal mash/lauter tun has and finally BIAB radically disturbs the mash bed during the lauter process.

All of which means, that there is a reasonable chance of there being some unconverted starch and that any unconverted starch in the mash (and if you mention an idodine test at this point, you dont actually know how they work) is far more likely to end up in the boil kettle with a BIAB brew than it would be with a mash/lauter tun brew.

So - you intensify your mash and make sure you convert all your starch. The way you do it, is by increasing the temperature of the mash beyond the gelatinisation point of even the really resistant starches, by stirring to access the physically trapped and isolated starches and by doing this gradually over a period of time to give the remaining enzymes (which will be working overtime in the increased temperature environment) time to convert the starches as they are gelatinised.

_Take 10 minutes or so to constantly stir your mash as you raise it to a temperature of 76-78 _and something along the lines of all your starches will be liberated, just in time for the last gasp of the dying enzymes to convert them to sugars.

This doesn't require any rest period at the "mashout" temperature - there is no point to a rest. There is a point to constant stirring and a gradual raise in temperature. So any mashout you might do that doesn't involve both these things is more or less pointless and I would just skip it.

*Efficiency* - well, your mash is more intensive, you convert more starch to more sugar, and your lauter is at a "normal" lauter temperature.... it all works just a little better than if you dont do it and I would expect a bump in efficiency (measured in the kettle) of say 3-5% by doing a mash out vs just. pulling the bag at the end of a 60 min mash. Less return for effort if you normally mash for 90min, but still a little.

Do you "need" to do it?? Hell no! But its something that I think constitutes good brewing practise and will make it _more likely_ that you will end up with fault free beer that resembles the beer you were trying to make.

60 min mash
Raise gradually with constant stirring to 76-78
Pull Bag

Adds maybe 5 mins to your brew day and in return you get a modest efficiency bump and a tick in a box for consistent quality brewing practise.

TB


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## Nick JD (4/4/12)

I use my trademarked Incoction technique.

At the end of the mash bring the whole grain bill to a rapid boil for half an hour. Then raise the bag.


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## Mikedub (4/4/12)

thats Gold Thirsty Boy

Up to now Ive hoisted the bag, raised temp to 76, bag back in for 10 min, could it be my recent spate of higher than expected FGs is because a more dextrinous starch conversion is occurring at 76 than need be?


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## Bribie G (4/4/12)

Thirsty Boy's post reinforces the desirability of using a rack - particularly in an electric urn. I generally do a 62 / 71 / 78 stepped mash and when ramping between the steps I constantly pump with the paint stirrer with a stick thermometer in the other hand. The final raise from 71 to mashout only takes a few minutes and the pumping ensures constant contact between any starches left, and enzymes. 

The old hoist and heat then dunk and stir method was a pain, and the rack was the best $15 I'd spent in a long time.


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## bcp (4/4/12)

Thirsty Boy said:


> _Take 10 minutes or so to constantly stir your mash as you raise it to a temperature of 76-78 _and something along the lines of all your starches will be liberated, just in time for the last gasp of the dying enzymes to convert them to sugars.
> 
> This doesn't require any rest period at the "mashout" temperature - there is no point to a rest. There is a point to constant stirring and a gradual raise in temperature. So any mashout you might do that doesn't involve both these things is more or less pointless and I would just skip it.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarity on the BIAB mashout process. My process was close, but it clearly helps to understand precisely what needs to be achieved and the approximate time required to achieve it. I think that with my urn it takes about 10 minutes to get to mashout temps anyway just by turning it on, but I will be checking. Which would mean no additional time required. 

So by extension, a potential fault with BIAB might be in some cases excessive starches in the boil. I should know but can't remember - too much starch can lead to haze... and what other faults?


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## Bribie G (4/4/12)

bcp makes a point that is often overlooked, because BIAB is a single vessel process you have to heat that vessel anyway to bring to the boil. So (provided you have a rack or some means of not scorching the bag) the mashout comes for free and you'd be nuts not to do it. The only penalty is having to stir for 5 or 10 minutes. 

TB, is the higher liquor to grain ratio the reason that some starches might get missed in the thinner, less intensive enzyme soup? So if there's an easy way of preparing some more liquor (in my case in a pail with the OTS heater) would there be advantages in mashing at a LG ratio more like 3V and using a quantity of hot liquor into the pot to raise to mashout temperature? Quite easy to calculate with one of the online "mixing" calculators. Maybe BS has one?

Also I thought that vorlauf was more to do with preparing the bed for sparging _after _the mashout?


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## Nick JD (4/4/12)

TB, any conversions that would be happening when raising to mashout temp with the grain in, will still be happening when raising to that temp without the grain.


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## stux (4/4/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> No, I didn't get an answer and it appears no answer forthcoming either. Makes me wonder if people actually know or are they guessing what to do and don't want to say in case they are proven wrong...... Nevertheless, what I have been doing, and not to say it is the right thing to do, is raising the bag off the bottom and applying heat at 10 minutes before mash time has finished. This usually gets me close to 75C then I leave it at 75C for another 10 minutes.
> 
> I have no idea if this is the right procedure but seems to be working ok for me and I am happy to read of a better process so I can employ.



Possibly the best answer you're going to get

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry811242


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## stux (4/4/12)

Stux said:


> Possibly the best answer you're going to get
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry811242



When I mashout, I don't raise my bag, because raising the bag causes a huge heat loss when I lower the bag again. Rather I agitate the mash in place with a large potato masher as I raise the temperature.

I generally raise the temperature slowly over 7 minutes or so, then let rest for 3 minutes and raise. Sometimes I let it rest for ten minutes.


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## the_new_darren (4/4/12)

I agree but the "bag" would cool slightly and then hence cool the "wort" when it was plunged back in. May need to compensate slighly higher MO temps if lifting the bag.

tnd


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## pk.sax (4/4/12)

@Nick

If you read TB's post carefully, heating it all to mash out also releases the more stubborn starches from the grain.

So, yes, there is indeed a benefit in heating the sort with the grain still in it. Not to mention the standard reason of a better drain from the grain at a higher temp.

TB's post has me thinking that I will have to calculate the volume of my MT and experiment a bit to get the right grain to water ratio to promote better conversion. So far, I've been plugging in whatever is convenient.


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## Thirsty Boy (5/4/12)

bcp said:


> Thanks for the clarity on the BIAB mashout process. My process was close, but it clearly helps to understand precisely what needs to be achieved and the approximate time required to achieve it. I think that with my urn it takes about 10 minutes to get to mashout temps anyway just by turning it on, but I will be checking. Which would mean no additional time required.
> 
> So by extension, a potential fault with BIAB might be in some cases excessive starches in the boil. I should know but can't remember - too much starch can lead to haze... and what other faults?



Its a potential, but not particularly likely result - especially if you do any stepping, mid mash stirring or a longer mash.

The stirred ramp to MO temps certainly does improve your efficiency - given the same amount of liquid and the same amount of grain... the only place its coming from is extra starch conversion. Therefore there must be unconverted starch, and the potential of this starch to make it into the kettle increases because of the manhandling a BIAB mash goes through when you pull the bag, especially if you give it a squeeze.

A ramp to MO temps makes the potential issue go away - one more item ticked off the long list of small things done well, that leads to excellence.

Starches in your boil and/or beer can lead to haze and also make the beer less micrbiologically stable. Starch is bug food - beer doesn't otherwise have a lot of bug food in it.



Bribie G said:


> bcp makes a point that is often overlooked, because BIAB is a single vessel process you have to heat that vessel anyway to bring to the boil. So (provided you have a rack or some means of not scorching the bag) the mashout comes for free and you'd be nuts not to do it. The only penalty is having to stir for 5 or 10 minutes.
> 
> TB, is the higher liquor to grain ratio the reason that some starches might get missed in the thinner, less intensive enzyme soup? So if there's an easy way of preparing some more liquor (in my case in a pail with the OTS heater) would there be advantages in mashing at a LG ratio more like 3V and using a quantity of hot liquor into the pot to raise to mashout temperature? Quite easy to calculate with one of the online "mixing" calculators. Maybe BS has one?
> 
> Also I thought that vorlauf was more to do with preparing the bed for sparging _after _the mashout?



Absolutely Bribie - you have to heat up a few kgs extra because you are including the spent grain and the liqudi that would be trapped in it ... but the majority of the time heating is time you would spend heating anyway. The effort component is the stirring. It adds maybe 5min or so to your total brewday to include the ramp to MO temps vs just pulling the bag out at final mash temp.

L:G ratio - If you recall or care to torment yourself by reading the earlier stages of the threads when BIAB was first being developed and popularised - one of the main arguments against BIAB was that the L:G ratio was too unfriendly towards enzymes. Starches wouldn't convert, if they did the worts would be too sweet because the beta amylase would all be denatured too quickly... etc etc.

It all turned out to not be an issue - BIAB works. BUT - that doesn't mean the reasoning was all wrong. BIAB is marginal - too much further down the road and you'll reach a point where things do stop working properly. So - if you are talking about resistant starches, starches that are often not converted even at more optimal L:G ratios in "normal" brewing techniques... Its my opinion that BIAB is either going to be worse, or at least no better at converting them (although that is arguable if you look closely enough) - but BIAB handles the mash roughly. Normal brewing techniques recirculate and drain through a mash bed... a mash bed that traps fine particles particualrly well. Fine particles like ungelatinised starches, protiens, bits of husk etc. You dont have that with BIAB, lots more stuff gets into the kettle.

You could, if you have the means, mash at a normal L:G and add water at the mash, just like a no-sparge brewer in the mash tun world. Works perfectly well and there is no reason why not. But - even at optimal L:G ratios, you are likely to have a percentage of unconverted starch in the mash, and the whole lack of mash bed thing simply raises its head again when you pull the bag. Converting "all" the starch is about the intensity of the mash - L:G ratio is much less important. Physical agitation, crush, time, and temperature are the important things.. a triple decoction being more or less the ultimate expression of "intense". Ultimately, I dont think you would get a perceptable quality increase (although I've not done enough brews that way to stamp my feet and insist) and would it be any less trouble than just increasing the intensity of your mash by doing the mash out ramp?

Personally, if you were going to do a low L:G BIAB and then an infusion to raise temp, I'd consider not going all the way to 78. Maybe go to 72 or 73 - that'll access all but the most stubborn starches and still leave you with plenty of alpha amylase action to convert them. If you wanted to finish at MO temps, then do another step. It just becomes bog standard infusion step mashing - nothing new to see here.

Or - just skip the temp increase and yoink the bag out at your highest mash temp.... the MO ramp is a belts and braces thing that I think's worth doing because it combines a solution to a vague potential quality issue, with higher efficiency & really very minimal added time or effort. If its too much time or effort or it streesses people out... just dont do it.


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## iralosavic (5/4/12)

So if you do a over pot "sparge" (ie just rinse and allow to drain back into kettle), what type of mash out would apply and in what order would you perform each step?


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## Thirsty Boy (5/4/12)

I have no idea - I'd never do that. Sorry.

At a guess - mash out first, with the stirring and the ramping.... _always_ with the stirring and ramping! Then sparge after you have no starch left to do anything. Or - no mash out at all, a sparge will give you much better efficiency return anyway, so the biggest part of the reason to do a mashout is out the window anyway.

BTW - Dunk sparge instead, pouring water over the grain bag is about the shittiest way I can imagine to actually sparge a BIAB bag. Better yet, make your life easier and dont sparge at all - then you dont have to care.


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## Camo1234 (5/4/12)

WOW - This forum rocks! Ask a quick question that has been bugging you for a while and a multitude of people come running to help you out!

My question re how to do a mashout with BIAB has now been answered.... The only issue is I now have a million other things on my mind now about the mash! :huh: 

I can still remember when I got my first brew kit 18 months ago and telling my fiance that it is "really simple these days"... Just tip in the tin, add some sugar and water and leave the fermenter in the garage for a few weeks! Now I have a three tap keg fridge, 3 extra fermenting fridges, half a garage full of brew gear and spend my spare time reading brewing forums! I am so glad it isn't as I first thought because I can still remember feeling a bit cheated with "how easy " the first batch was.. It tasted Shite obviously but now with a bucket load more effort (and satisfaction) I now have awesome tasting beers that surprises everyone that tastes my "home brew"!

Cheers Falles!

Camo :beer:


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## iralosavic (5/4/12)

All I currently do is bring the kettle to the boil with the bag still in it, lift it out when it reaches 76-78c, hang bag over pot to drain with occasional squeezing, by the time the boil is beginning I remove the bag and chuck the grains out. So no need to modify this process then, I take it!


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## Mikedub (7/4/12)

I've just Biab mashed a merican brown, I have in the past lifted the bag out while ramping up to 76 degrees, today I just used the ramp up to mashout temp constantly moving the grain bed with a paint stirrer as suggested by TB above,, I usually hit about 68% efficiency, today I hit 74%, 

sweet! thanks TB and other posters here,


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