# What Is Happening To My Chest Freezers?



## remi (28/8/11)

My 210L chest freezer appears to be on it's last legs...struggling to hold 5C.

I had the same thing happen a year or so to my previous chestie (after approx 2yrs of service). Was able to find the same model as a replacement and so could re-use the same collar.

Now this freezer has started dying after only 15months. Both were Kelvinator 210L models- which are pretty common (sometimes branded Westinghouse). 





Both were purchased secondhand aged between 5-10 yrs, having given faithful service without a hitch previously. After the first one died, I got it re-gassed- which was a waste of time, as it only lasted 5 days. As this freezer (and many others) has internal cooling lines, it is not practical to try and repair it.

I control the temp with a fridgemate using the recommended settings- 1C temp difference, cooling mode, 9 min compressor delay. The temp probe is stuck onto the side of one of the full kegs and insulated with bluetack. I've never had the impression that they cycle particularly often- until they die of course.

Have I just been unlucky? Is this a common problem with this particular brand, or is this just a consequence of running a freezer outside it's usual operating parameters?

Now I need to source a third freezer in just over 3 years... which gives me the shits. Would I be better off with a fridge? Given the frequent turnover, I'm at a loss whether to buy a brand-new one, (for much more coin than I've payed previously), or just go another secondhand. If I shell out $500 or so, and it dies after 2 yrs, I'll be much more upset than if I pay $100 and it dies in another 12 months.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks

Remi


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## balconybrewer (28/8/11)

no help on the health of your freezer sorry,

but how did you go about painting your collar....... looks the goods.

cheers


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## michael_aussie (28/8/11)

if you buy new you will get more than 2 years for sure.....

as for second hand .. it's the luck of the draw.. ur next one may go for 10+ years ... or 2 weeks.


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## Diesel80 (30/8/11)

remi said:


> My 210L chest freezer
> 
> I control the temp with a fridgemate using the recommended settings- 1C temp difference, cooling mode, 9 min compressor delay. The temp probe is stuck onto the side of one of the full kegs and insulated with bluetack. I've never had the impression that they cycle particularly often- until they die of course.
> 
> ...



Remi,

I have a 210l chest freezer and i am using identical setup. Collar not yet built, using a fridgemate with the same settings. I have been using it for 2 weeks so far at you specs, but 3 weeks prior it was used for fermenting at 12-14 degrees. It is about 15 years old the freezer. 

Did you notice a gradual decrease in performance, increase in cycling etc? Or was it sudden?

Were you using a fan inside your freezer?

Cheers,
D80


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## remi (30/8/11)

Hi,

The failure on both occasions was fairly sudden. I noticed that each time I walked past the freezer- it was on, which is unusual as when working correctly it is off the vast majority of the time. Also- when touching the front of the freezer while on- the exterior wall was cool, as opposed to hot when working well.

On the first occasion, the freezer cacked itself fairly quickly from the day I first became aware of the change. On this occasion, the freezer is still holding 4-5C, although to do this it is running the majority of the time. I suspect if it was summer, I'd have warm beer by now. Don't use a fan.

Remi


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## bcp (30/8/11)

remi said:


> Hi,
> 
> The failure on both occasions was fairly sudden. I noticed that each time I walked past the freezer- it was on, which is unusual as when working correctly it is off the vast majority of the time. Also- when touching the front of the freezer while on- the exterior wall was cool, as opposed to hot when working well.
> 
> ...



My fridge recently died, and Rob2 asked me this: "On a side note, does your temp controller have a delay for the compressor because if it doesn't this can cause a lot of wear on the relay and compressor."


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## brettprevans (30/8/11)

i recon the just the chance you take when buying second hand. 

mind you in saying that I can seem to get my chesty down past 6C anymore. I dont really care as I wouldnt serve beer colder than that anyway. 

as for wheather you pony up for a new one or a secondhand one, well thats probably your call considering your financial situation.

@bcp - he already stated whats temp settings he used in the OP and yes it has a compressor delay.


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## stux (30/8/11)

This is the thing though,

You read so many people having chesty's fail after 1 or two years of service... but how often do you hear of a second hand fridge failing?

I just recycled a fridge which had been in service for 30+ years... last 2 as a keg fridge...

I just moved another fermentation fridge onto another brewer, its circa 20 years old

My other two fermentation fridges have been going for 10-15 years, without a hiccup

And my food chest freezer is i dunno how old, but its still going strong.


My point is... is there something about running a chest freezer at fridge temps?

This is one reason why I went for a fisher&paykel upside down fridge/freezer for my last kegerator and all-fridges for my fermentation chambers

Having to build a collar ever other year didn't appeal.


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## hsb (30/8/11)

I picked up one off eBay (new) for $300 (holds 6 cornies)

It has a temp controller mounted on the front so I've been using that. 
No idea if it is better to use this built-in one or to hook up the FridgeMate.
Need some kind of log of when the freezer is running or not.

I have a fan in my mine. I'm thinking about using some spare polystyrene to insulate the collar. could the collar be causing too much heat loss and wearing out the freezer quicker?


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## Burghbrewer (30/8/11)

Hi Remi
Im a Domestic fridge repairer, this is what I think happens when a Chest Freezers thermostat is changed to cycle as a Fridge.
A Fridge known as a Cyclic/Moist Cold, which means its not a Frost Free and has in the Food Cabinet a cooling plate against the back wall, which when running or [Cycling] turns frosty, when this plate becomes cold enough the thermostat sensor that is attached to it, turns the compressor off and the plate that has a thin film of frost on it turns to water, and runs into a drain at the bottom of that plate.
Now in the case of a chest freezer, it is designed to hold its temp. at around -18 to-20 or there abouts, everything including its insulation stays frozen, if you now change the opperating temperature to run at say +4 or there abouts, it will then still freeze a section of the pipework internally behind the lining or all of it, but it will then defrost like it would in the case of a cooling plate, then that water soaks up into the insulation over and over again, then owing to that tube being mild steel with a very thin coating of copper, and sitting in moisture, it forms pit holes untill it is too thin to hold the pressure, and out blows the gas.
While they work there a great thing, but in my opinion not designed to do so for many years.
Thats my long winded opinion, but I hope it helps
Chris :icon_cheers:


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## remi (30/8/11)

Thanks Burghbrewer,

That's a very helpful reply. I had read previously that chest freezers could have this sort of issue, and by posting my question I was hoping to also get a feel for how many other people have had this problem- or whether my experience has been particularly bad luck.

From your advice, it seems that maybe a fridge may be a better solution for the longer term. On the other hand, the internal dimensions of my freezer allow me to store 5 kegs (3 on the floor, 2 on the compressor hump with a collar). I'm not sure that there are too many fridges that would allow this (unless someone can suggest one).

I've probably still got a couple of weeks to make a decision before I'm faced with warm beer. If anyone can suggest a suitable fridge that will take 5 kegs- please let me know.

Otherwise I'll probably just risk a chestie again.

Thanks all,

Remi


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## mxd (30/8/11)

I had 2 die over the last 6 weeks, 1 frezerator 18 month from 2nd hand, and a fermenting one that my family has owned for 20 years, died after 6 ferments form 18 down to 2 deg


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## stux (31/8/11)

remi said:


> Thanks Burghbrewer,
> 
> That's a very helpful reply. I had read previously that chest freezers could have this sort of issue, and by posting my question I was hoping to also get a feel for how many other people have had this problem- or whether my experience has been particularly bad luck.
> 
> ...



My new keg fridge is a Fisher&Paykel 442L Upside-down fridge that I scored 2nd hand.

(I think its the 442)

Anyway, once I cut out some 4ply to fit the bottom and make it flat I can now fit 5 kegs 

2 at the back, one in the middle, 2 at the front

Without modifying the cavity.

And have a 6 way manifold down the side and I can still have the top shelf used for brewskis and the two "butter/cheese" shelves in the door for misc.

This means I can have four taps on the door, with drip tray at the *perfect* height.

I could have a fifth tap, but I like having a "hot spare" keg carbonating

And the door will clear a keg on the floor when it swings out...

And the freezer is perfect for storing vodka + hops


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## reVoxAHB (31/8/11)

Hi Remi

Was complimenting a buddy on his 700L chestie/dispensing setup a few years ago asking for freezer selection tips, etc. and the advice he gave me was don't stuff around with second hand. I realise this is luck of the draw more than anything else. His story was purchasing two (was it 3?) second hand units - gumtree, eBay, etc. all of them failing, some quicker than others and none of them lasting longer than a year. He resolved, and probably more out of frustration and stuffing around than anything else, to purchasing a new unit with extended warranty. It's been going full guns ever since. And he's shifted locations a couple of times, too. 

This week, I plan to purchase a Haier 324L chestie from CostCo @$550. CostCo's warranty policy is that for as long as you remain a member, you can return an item for any reason for replacement, or cash-back. Two separate managers have confirmed this.. I even threw out the scenario of, "What if I still own this in 10 years and it finally fails? Can I bring it back for a refund?" And was recanted the policy verbatim. It's this lifetime warranty, that's the kicker for me. I plan to collar it, etc. without drilling or touching the unit itself so will remain stock, in appearance. Haier is manufactured in China, and has been selling well (in the US, primarily) for well over a decade. The unit comfortably holds 6 conrys on the floor and I guess you could do more on the hump, certainly a couple of 9L units.. didn't measure for 19L/collared as 6 meets my requirement. Haier unit here and here here

And another tip, they order 10-12 units each month where depending on how they sell, you can purchase the floor model (never plugged-in or used, out of packing for inspection) for $500. I reckon you could even haggle, further. If you're not a member, I'm headed down this week if you want to tag along, Shoot me a PM. 

reVox


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## hsb (31/8/11)

Is there anything practical you can do to prolong the life of the freezer? Is leaking gas and this type of damage something repairable? Is it worth it?
If only someone made chest fridges..



Burghbrewer said:


> Hi Remi
> Im a Domestic fridge repairer, this is what I think happens when a Chest Freezers thermostat is changed to cycle as a Fridge.
> A Fridge known as a Cyclic/Moist Cold, which means its not a Frost Free and has in the Food Cabinet a cooling plate against the back wall, which when running or [Cycling] turns frosty, when this plate becomes cold enough the thermostat sensor that is attached to it, turns the compressor off and the plate that has a thin film of frost on it turns to water, and runs into a drain at the bottom of that plate.
> Now in the case of a chest freezer, it is designed to hold its temp. at around -18 to-20 or there abouts, everything including its insulation stays frozen, if you now change the opperating temperature to run at say +4 or there abouts, it will then still freeze a section of the pipework internally behind the lining or all of it, but it will then defrost like it would in the case of a cooling plate, then that water soaks up into the insulation over and over again, then owing to that tube being mild steel with a very thin coating of copper, and sitting in moisture, it forms pit holes untill it is too thin to hold the pressure, and out blows the gas.
> ...


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## michael_aussie (31/8/11)

watching this tread closely!!


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## Dazza88 (31/8/11)

I was looking into chest freezers for my kegs, maybe i should just find a fridge instead?


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## remi (1/9/11)

Thanks for the tips guys,

That Haier unit looks good Revox, and an amazing deal as well re: replacement warranty. I don't think it will fit for me though, I've got a very tight space to squeeze into- a max width of about 720mm- so even if I showed it in sideways, it wouldn't quite fit. I'll see if they stock other freezers...

The 442L fridge is also interesting, if you can fit 5 kegs in that may be ideal. Any chance you could post photos of how the kegs fit in, or confirm the model number so I can have a look at dimensions etc.

Remi


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## brettprevans (1/9/11)

chest freezers are generally regarded as being superior to fridges. there are threads on energy use etc on AHB. the motor shyould last longer becasue it cycles on and off less than a fridge. the biggest issue is the upfront cost and that freezer compressors cost a forntune and its almost as much to buy a new fridge as it is to have a compressor replaced. 

its been nailed on the head the biggest issue - 2nd hand is pot luck. if you can afford it then yeah get a new one, unless you can by a 2nd hand one off someone you know. 

all that being said, for me to buy a brand name 700L chesty it would be up round the $1.5k mark. no way have i got that sort of cash to spend. so it would have to be a smaller unit (im not sure i could bear the thought) or another 2nd hand unit. the one I currently have I bought for $100 and its been going for 4 years. im happy with that.


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## reVoxAHB (1/9/11)

remi said:


> I'll see if they stock other freezers...



I'm pretty sure they stock 1 smaller chest freezer. I didn't take notice of the dimensions as I was only interested in 300L+ but yeah, pretty sure there's a smaller unit. And they stock a bar fridge and a fridge/freezer combo. At least they did a few weeks ago.


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## stux (1/9/11)

remi said:


> The 442L fridge is also interesting, if you can fit 5 kegs in that may be ideal. Any chance you could post photos of how the kegs fit in, or confirm the model number so I can have a look at dimensions etc.



And I was hoping to finish the fridge and tidy it up before posting in the keg setup thread 





Full size kegs do fit where the 9.5L kegs are, at least this makes it easy to see all 5 kegs, and some room at the front for carbonator cap beverages.

Will confirm model number later


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## stew.w (2/9/11)

the other thing with turning a freezer into a fridge is it will make the compressor short cycle because the whole system will be oversized for that temperature.
ive got one at home too i bought new from aldi and it been going well for about 2 years i think but it wont last as long being used as a fridge as if it were a freezer.
for your freezer its probably either short of gas or the compressor valves are worn out and you're not getting enough compression which might explain why the side of the freezer doesnt get hot anymore as thats your condensor.

Cheers,

Stewart


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## Parks (2/9/11)

I had 2 freezers die within weeks of each other. Same thing, would only get down to 5-10 degrees.

One was a 30 year old freezer which hadn't faulted in 30 years. This one I had running as a kegerator for 2 years and this only happened after moving it and a big storm.

The other was a dirt cheap $300 KMart job which ran perfectly for 3 years and really wasn't handled carefully. It went on the back of a trailer to a wedding and several engagement parties. I think this one I killed breaking ice off the inside, it had only thin aluminium inside walls.

I have now bought a brand new fisher and paykel chest freezer from appliances online with 5 years warranty (LINKY) which fits 7 corneys and a 9L easily.


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## stux (2/9/11)

Stux said:


> And I was hoping to finish the fridge and tidy it up before posting in the keg setup thread
> 
> View attachment 48015
> 
> ...



Fisher & Paykel E442B


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## remi (2/9/11)

Thanks- same as this one I guess?

http://www.appliancesonline.com.au/442l-fi...ge-e442bre.aspx

The width looks ok for my tight space. By the way, where is your gas bottle/ how do you run the gas line?

Remi


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## brettprevans (2/9/11)

fellas, dont buy F&P. its chinese? crap now. no longer made in NZ and tends to fail quickly. your paying extra for brand name and getting nothing in return


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## drsmurto (2/9/11)

I use an all fridge that i bought 5 years ago from a second hand fridge/freezer place.

$300. Not sure of the brand. 

Fits 4 kegs (2 on the bump above the compressor, 2 on the floor) and a shelf above them for the glasses. If i built a shelf (and the local boys would laugh at any implication i would build somehting) to lift the kegs at the front up to the same height as the kegs on the back bump i could easily fit 3/4 of a carton of beer underneath. I've been 'thinking' about doing that for 5 years now. Somehow i don't think it will ever happen!

My thinking when i bought this was i wanted a fridge, not a freezer for a few reasons.

The main one being i wasn't convinced about using a freezer at fridge temps. The response from Burghbrewer is the high tech version of my low tech thinking. They are desinged to run at very different temps so the way they cool is different. 

The other reason was i run my keg fridge at 7-8C (nice ale temperature) using a fridgemate so a freezer section wouldn't be as cool as if running the fridge normally. 

Worthwhile checking out an all fridge option, either 2nd hand or brand new.

Another reason is not having to lift a full keg into a freezer.


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## brettprevans (2/9/11)

but smurts, then you cant have this


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## ThatKiwiFella (2/9/11)

:icon_offtopic: 

Just to clear something up... F&P fridges are NOT made in China. They do have a manufacturing plant in Thailand, which is a state of the art facility with lower warranty rates than the NZ assembled fridges. What you are getting is a well supported (often 24 month warranty), well known and usually very good product from a company known for design innovation. 

They do have an arrangement with Haier in China, whereby they are using each others distribution networks and F&P are supplying some technology and parts (dishdrawer tech, some motors, etc) to Haier for their units. I don't want to get into a debate about brands, etc but just thought it was worth mentioning as wouldn't hesitate to buy another F&P fridge or freezer - plenty of old ones are still going strong. 

:beer:


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## stux (2/9/11)

remi said:


> Thanks- same as this one I guess?
> 
> http://www.appliancesonline.com.au/442l-fi...ge-e442bre.aspx
> 
> ...



Mine is a few years older of course, i think about 5, but as far as I know, the design has only changed cosmetically on the outside... 

If you can get a flat fronted one that would be better than a rounded door like mine because its easier to mount the drip dray then! but you get what you can 

I drilled a hole in the side of the fridge for the gas line. I used two airlock grommets to protect the line... and provide a nice seal. You can see where my gas line enters below the manifold. I use two john guest right angles to get a neat line to the manifold

The actual c02 bottle is in my laundry and with a bungie cord holding it to the wall. The gas line then runs along my balcony railing to where the keg fridge is

If you wanted to preserve warranty, the seals are soft enough that you could pass the line through the door seal. I'm not sure of any way to thread the line in through the body.

Alternatively, there is probably enough room to put a small bottle where I have the two L growler in the picture.


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## punkin (3/9/11)

I thought i researched this pretty well before convincing the missus i needed to get rid of my perfectly good keg fridge and go for a freezerator :unsure: 

Now i find this when i'm halfway through the bloody project....


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## reVoxAHB (3/9/11)

punkin said:


> I thought i researched this pretty well before convincing the missus i needed to get rid of my perfectly good keg fridge and go for a freezerator :unsure:
> 
> Now i find this when i'm halfway through the bloody project....



I wouldn't sweat it despite this thread demonstrating some logical reasons why converted chest freezers can fail. 

I reckon if you started a very simple survey thread called, "How long has your keezer lasted?" (or similar) with selections like 6mo. or under, 6-12 mo. 12mo-2 year etc. you'd see the majority of guys having a good run, or good luck over bad. While not scientific and the variable of new vs. used and luck of the draw presenting it's variable, it would be interesting nonetheless. Not sure if the survey can address a radio button of NEW or USED and have data correspond to answer? I've never started a survey on AHB.

Point is, stay the course and may luck be on your side. 

reVox


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## brettprevans (3/9/11)

ThatKiwiFella said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> Just to clear something up... F&P fridges are NOT made in China. They do have a manufacturing plant in Thailand, which is a state of the art facility with lower warranty rates than the NZ assembled fridges. What you are getting is a well supported (often 24 month warranty), well known and usually very good product from a company known for design innovation.
> 
> ...


F&p are now utter rubbish. We have nothing but issues eith them at work and previous personal experiance. Even the electrical stores day that they are crap comoated to what they used to be. Jump on whirlpool and have a read. Pretty much a clean sweep of 'f&p is crap'. But to each their own


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## stux (3/9/11)

Last white good's repairer who came to my place did mention that they were crap now too...


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## ThatKiwiFella (3/9/11)

citymorgue2 said:


> fellas, dont buy F&P. its chinese? crap now. no longer made in NZ and tends to fail quickly. your paying extra for brand name and getting nothing in return






citymorgue2 said:


> F&p are now utter rubbish. We have nothing but issues eith them at work and previous personal experiance. Even the electrical stores day that they are crap comoated to what they used to be. Jump on whirlpool and have a read. Pretty much a clean sweep of 'f&p is crap'. But to each their own



I wasn't trying to say they are problem free (or even the best option) but to brand them as Made in China crap is perhaps a bit harsh. Same old story, someone with a bad experience will tell 10+ people (these days it's probably 100-1000+ care of the interweb), those with a good experience have nothing to moan about but generally don't become 'brand ambassadors' online or elsewhere...



Stux said:


> Last white good's repairer who came to my place did mention that they were crap now too...



Is it possible there is a slightly bitter and perhaps bigoted approach to F&P given they firstly closed manufacturing here and then moved to Thailand for it? I don't know but no doubt there are some service techs out there whom had to go looking for other employment as a result...

And maybe they are just rubbish now... Not a very good business model/decision for F&P if they are.


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## reVoxAHB (17/9/11)

I was down at CostCo yesterday and they do stock a smaller Haier 208L chestie. Same lifetime warranty. 
Internal pic is of 208L to demonstrate hump. 

Cheers
reVox


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## Cocko (17/9/11)

If you wanna hold warranty:

Check the 'strap down' method!

B)


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## yum beer (17/9/11)

I have worked as a warehouse manager with a big national for a while now and I wouldnt buy Haier in a pink fit.

75% of their product returns not working....doesnt fire up or dies within 2 months....absolute rubbish, but a little better than F & P.

Best option second hand(10years old or more) kelvinator,westinghouse,hoover---quality that should last.
I am using a hoover fridge that is about 12 years old and had sat outside in the weather for six months before I grabbed it.


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## WitWonder (27/9/11)

remi said:


> Hi,
> 
> The failure on both occasions was fairly sudden. I noticed that each time I walked past the freezer- it was on, which is unusual as when working correctly it is off the vast majority of the time. Also- when touching the front of the freezer while on- the exterior wall was cool, as opposed to hot when working well.
> 
> ...



Well, coincidentally I noticed the same issue with my F&P freezer recently (280L job). I have it set at 6 degrees and going past a few times noticed it was sitting at 8 degrees. Upon opening the lid, I noticed some frost around the top which is highly unusual. I relocated the probe and this morning it was down at 6 degrees and I thought problem solved. Tonight, same issue. Changed probes on my fridgemate and used another thermometer - same deal, 8 degrees measured on both. &*))! 

I bought this unit NEW in January last year. Not happy. I assume the warranty is 12 months, too. I want the space that comes with a freezer but not if I have to replace it every 1-2 years.



Burghbrewer said:


> Hi Remi
> Im a Domestic fridge repairer, this is what I think happens when a Chest Freezers thermostat is changed to cycle as a Fridge.
> A Fridge known as a Cyclic/Moist Cold, which means its not a Frost Free and has in the Food Cabinet a cooling plate against the back wall, which when running or [Cycling] turns frosty, when this plate becomes cold enough the thermostat sensor that is attached to it, turns the compressor off and the plate that has a thin film of frost on it turns to water, and runs into a drain at the bottom of that plate.
> Now in the case of a chest freezer, it is designed to hold its temp. at around -18 to-20 or there abouts, everything including its insulation stays frozen, if you now change the opperating temperature to run at say +4 or there abouts, it will then still freeze a section of the pipework internally behind the lining or all of it, but it will then defrost like it would in the case of a cooling plate, then that water soaks up into the insulation over and over again, then owing to that tube being mild steel with a very thin coating of copper, and sitting in moisture, it forms pit holes untill it is too thin to hold the pressure, and out blows the gas.
> ...



Have you pulled one apart and discovered this? I know little of fridge mechanics but I'd imagine the gas used to cool the thing freezes at far lower temps than the compressor is able to get it too, even if it was on 24/7 - unless I have misread your post.


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## MAH (28/9/11)

Burghbrewer said:


> owing to that tube being mild steel with a very thin coating of copper, and sitting in moisture, it forms pit holes untill it is too thin to hold the pressure, and out blows the gas.



This explanation doesn't seem right to me. Tubes to be used for refrigeration must comply with AS/NZS 1571. This standard specifies requirements for round, seamless copper tubes manufactured from phosphorus-deoxidized copper containing high residual phosphorus (UNS alloy C12200). Requirements including chemical composition, hardness, grain size and manufacturing tolerances are specified.

I doubt mild steel with a thin copper inner tube is used.


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## Parks (28/9/11)

MAH said:


> This explanation doesn't seem right to me. Tubes to be used for refrigeration must comply with AS/NZS 1571. This standard specifies requirements for round, seamless copper tubes manufactured from phosphorus-deoxidized copper containing high residual phosphorus (UNS alloy C12200). Requirements including chemical composition, hardness, grain size and manufacturing tolerances are specified.
> 
> I doubt mild steel with a thin copper inner tube is used.



The explanation does make some degree of sense, even if the standards dictate otherwise.

Would love to know if anyone has actually cut their freezer apart to find the actual cause of the leak.


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## remi (20/10/11)

So, thought I'd give you guys an update on my dilemma.

Thanks for all the suggestions re: alternative freezers/ fridges to use. As my space is quite tight, I came to the conclusion that a fridge that fits 5 kegs wouldn't work, as I would have no room for the gas bottle, and would lose access to the area behind the current chest freezer (see picture below) as suitable fridges would be 160-170cm tall.

Luckily, the cheapie electrical place near me had a new Westinghouse 210L chest freezer (which is the same as my old Kelvinator) on sale for $370 due to a scratched lid...I jumped at the chance. Added a 5yr warranty for $75 for some piece of mind. Simple matter of swapping the collar over- picture below.





As you can see, space is tight in my laundry- not sure why the picture has been rotated?

The old chest freezer hadn't completely died, and was still holding 4-5 degrees. If anyone wants it, even for a fermenting box or similar, let me know- otherwise it's off to the tip.

If this new freezer claps out in the next 5 years, I will seriously reconsider my keg-fridge plans. 3 freezers in 3 1/2 years is already a bit ridiculous.

Remi


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## QldKev (20/10/11)

remi said:


> So, thought I'd give you guys an update on my dilemma.
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions re: alternative freezers/ fridges to use. As my space is quite tight, I came to the conclusion that a fridge that fits 5 kegs wouldn't work, as I would have no room for the gas bottle, and would lose access to the area behind the current chest freezer (see picture below) as suitable fridges would be 160-170cm tall.
> 
> ...




Do your freezers have the radiator at the back? If not, then they have the lines running through the body to get rid of the heat, and with no air circulation past the sides they will find it really hard to get down to temperature. 

QldKev


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## Diesel80 (20/10/11)

QldKev said:


> Do your freezers have the radiator at the back? If not, then they have the lines running through the body to get rid of the heat, and with no air circulation past the sides they will find it really hard to get down to temperature.
> 
> QldKev



As kev says, I have a rebadged old kelvinator that disperses heat through the walls of the chest freezer. the sides get really hot to touch (as it is meant to do) but, i have heaps of space about it for the heat to dissipate. Interested to see how this plays out.


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## WitWonder (23/11/11)

WitWonder said:


> Well, coincidentally I noticed the same issue with my F&P freezer recently (280L job). I have it set at 6 degrees and going past a few times noticed it was sitting at 8 degrees. Upon opening the lid, I noticed some frost around the top which is highly unusual. I relocated the probe and this morning it was down at 6 degrees and I thought problem solved. Tonight, same issue. Changed probes on my fridgemate and used another thermometer - same deal, 8 degrees measured on both. &*))!
> 
> I bought this unit NEW in January last year. Not happy. I assume the warranty is 12 months, too. I want the space that comes with a freezer but not if I have to replace it every 1-2 years.



UPDATE

Well, the freezer was covered by a two year warranty and, after a swift sledgehammer blow to remove the collar (which was glued on with liquid nails) and some patient work with baby oil to remove the liquid nails left on the freezer, I restored the freezer to *cough* near-new condition and made a claim. The official diagnosis was that it had no gas and it was replaced under warranty.

I think I will just use a bead of silicone around the new freezer and collar this time to hold it in place and seal it. Plus maybe some thin sticky-backed foam from Clarke rubber between the timber and plastic of the freezer for a better seal and so it's easier to get off next time (if required).

All's well that ends well :icon_chickcheers:


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## WitWonder (27/4/14)

Well it's happened again. My F&P replacement freezer appears to be on the way out as it's struggling to get the temperature down to 4 degrees. The outside is cold to touch and the compressor has been on for 3 hours and it's gone down about 1 degree. So to recap - the original unit lasted about 22 months, this (new) replacement unit has lasted about 2.5 years. Not good enough. I'll give F&P a ring and see how I go about getting it fixed but don't like my chances. If I can't I think I'll give up on the chest freezer idea and get a fridge instead. 

Conclusion: Fisher & paykel are shite. :angry2:


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## yum beer (27/4/14)

There were warnings.......warnings people....


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## Batz (27/4/14)

I have always bought older secondhand freezers, I like 500lt models. I'm on my second keg freezer first one died at 3 years, present is still going after 6 years.
My fermenting chesty ( again 500lt) died after a couple of years.

I have never paid more than $100.00 for any of them, but it's a pain when one dies and your looking for another.
Oh it costs me $15.00 to dump the buggers now as well.

Batz


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## Bribie G (27/4/14)

Stew.W said:


> the other thing with turning a freezer into a fridge is it will make the compressor short cycle because the whole system will be oversized for that temperature.
> ive got one at home too i bought new from aldi and it been going well for about 2 years i think but it wont last as long being used as a fridge as if it were a freezer.
> for your freezer its probably either short of gas or the compressor valves are worn out and you're not getting enough compression which might explain why the side of the freezer doesnt get hot anymore as thats your condensor.
> 
> ...


That was my first thought, and a reason I never went the chesty route. My Aldi food freezer is a ripper, it sits there and only flicks on for a few minutes every now and again, and with the top of the food covered with a few sheets of bubble wrap and a beach towel on the lid (more to keep it clean as it's in the garage) it hardly does any work and costs little to run.

However I've long suspected that forcing a freezer to run at a high temperature it's not designed for could well stress it out both from the compressor point of view and also the physical, due to many bits at 8 degrees not being the same length as they are supposed to be at -18, and make it work harder than its job description.


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## real_beer (27/4/14)

citymorgue2 said:


> fellas, dont buy F&P. its chinese? crap now. no longer made in NZ and tends to fail quickly. your paying extra for brand name and getting nothing in return


I think they had no choice but too relocate to China/Thailand because all the Kiwis have moved to Western Australia!


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## gap (27/4/14)

I have had my F&P freezer running as a fridge with a STC100 temp controller
for nearly 6 years without any problems.
It was purchased new.


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## sav (27/4/14)

Same my F and P is 4 years old still going
Sav


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## MarkBastard (27/4/14)

Same. I wonder if collars are doing it or making it worse. I dont use a collar.


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## Midnight Brew (28/4/14)

WitWonder said:


> Well it's happened again. My F&P replacement freezer appears to be on the way out as it's struggling to get the temperature down to 4 degrees. The outside is cold to touch and the compressor has been on for 3 hours and it's gone down about 1 degree. So to recap - the original unit lasted about 22 months, this (new) replacement unit has lasted about 2.5 years. Not good enough. I'll give F&P a ring and see how I go about getting it fixed but don't like my chances. If I can't I think I'll give up on the chest freezer idea and get a fridge instead.
> 
> Conclusion: Fisher & paykel are shite. :angry2:


By chance have you had other electrical items die during this time?


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## WitWonder (8/5/14)

WitWonder said:


> Well it's happened again. My F&P replacement freezer appears to be on the way out as it's struggling to get the temperature down to 4 degrees. The outside is cold to touch and the compressor has been on for 3 hours and it's gone down about 1 degree. So to recap - the original unit lasted about 22 months, this (new) replacement unit has lasted about 2.5 years. Not good enough. I'll give F&P a ring and see how I go about getting it fixed but don't like my chances. If I can't I think I'll give up on the chest freezer idea and get a fridge instead.
> 
> Conclusion: Fisher & paykel are shite. :angry2:


Well, they may make a crappy product but I need to congratulate the Kiwi bastards because they have replaced my freezer, again, with the difference being this time that it's out of warranty. Tech reckons the other one must of had either a slow leak of coolant (which may have come from being poorly handled) or a blockage somewhere in one of the pipes. One of the things I have used is a trolley to sit the freezer on so I can pull it out and replace kegs and I think perhaps this moving around may have contributed to the problem though I'd be surprised that such small movement could fracture a weld or some such so that gas leaks out. So, I'll stop doing that and just ruin my back dropping kegs in instead and see if it lasts any longer this time around.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/14)

Excellent thread blokes.

I'm (subject to continued tacit approval from SWMBO) going to get back into kegging at that mysterious time when the ATO send you money for being smart enough to ask your employer to tax more tax than you need.

Weighing up whether to get a pre-made kegerator or a chestie and gradually build a kegging system around that (this allows me to buy curly-hose picnic taps in the initial time and replace with a good quality font and taps in the future - possibly about the same time next year when the ATO are nice enough to pull their well vasolined finger out of me).

Leaning towards freezers - firstly cost, especially when considering any kegerator will have a fairly substantial postage figure attached to it for me (as opposed to having a Harvey Norman nearby), secondly, I think my poor DIY skills won't be an issue long term for fitting a font to the thing, if I leave enough line out when doing it and thirdly, because the temperature variation between serving temp and beer temp are less in Tassie than I'd have experienced in Brissie. Oh and I have a leftover STC-1000 that would be great for the job.

Pretty much a buy once, cry once thing.

Anyone have experience with the HiSense or Haier brand stuff brand new (only other chesties are F&P at a significant premium)?

Secondly - are the dimensions they give internal or external?

Thirdly - if anyone has experience with the above, is there a hump or anything else inside that would render the 34cm high Keg keg new kegs unable to be put in? (I'm going without a collar at this stage).

And finally - can anyone see a reason why paying up to $200 or more extra for a kegerator? Cost to run freezer? Compressor hating being used with STC-1000? Reliability of the limited range of cheap freezers available brand new to me here?


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## pk.sax (8/5/14)

Kegerator for 2 reasons:

380 bux for the fridge + castors and guard rail and drip tray from pinnacle + freight.

Font, shanks, taps and disconnects in great quality are getting way cheaper - cheaky peak.

If postage on fridge is an issue, can look at getting 1 tap job is off keg king (apparently free freight) and ditch the font/shank/tap and go to step 2 to complete.

I like the height of the taps and the ease of sliding kegs in/out.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/14)

Single Tap from Keg King is $589.

Pinnacle I'm looking at anywhere up to $530 (their BIN now on ebay) plus $140 postage to Tas. That's $670.

240L Freezer Brand New from HN is about $449, and I can get it local.

Not sure the castors, guard rail and drip tray are going to make the $140 difference up.

I'm happy to be wrong and I reckon that this sort of discussion will help most brewers out.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (8/5/14)

Yep, I love the look/cool factor of chesties, but my kegerator is so practical, a full fridge with fan in it (has NO problems holding kegs at 1-2C), fits 3x cornys, easy to take in and out, could put 3x 9L kegs on the shelves if I re-arrange/wanted to, but I am a two tap + pluto man anyway. Having the 3 shelves above for bottled beer and wine and glasses sitting in the upper door compartments is a huge win.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/14)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Yep, I love the look/cool factor of chesties, but my kegerator is so practical, a full fridge with fan in it (has NO problems holding kegs at 1-2C), fits 3x cornys, easy to take in and out, could put 3x 9L kegs on the shelves if I re-arrange/wanted to, but I am a two tap + pluto man anyway. Having the 3 shelves above for bottled beer and wine and glasses sitting in the upper door compartments is a huge win.


What is it that makes it more practical from your POV, DJ_L3ThAL? 

I'm trying to see what the pros and cons are for me - and I have the feeling I'm missing something.

I'll add a caveat - if I was still living in Brisbane, the decision would be - drive to craftbrewer and do a deal with them. But delivery, regardless of retailer is obscenely prohibitive and the ease of a bricks and more store for something like this does appeal.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (8/5/14)

Biggest is ease to remove and swap kegs, less awkward lifting. Second is no condensation woes as ive read this is common as you're holding the keezer around freezing point and above. Thirdly there is no STC required I just set normal fridge thermostat.

Bonuses are bottle/glass storage is better with shelves and door compartment and no cost of a font (although fonts are sexy) and taps are at a good height compared to collared keezers.


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## Lodan (8/5/14)

Comparable keezers and pre- made kegerators are likely to be similar cost-wise once you add everything up.

Keg handling is the biggest difference (I second DJ about a fridge being easier than a Keezer).
The second I believe is font cooling requirements (only a minor cost and less likely to be a significant issue in tassie)

Condensation is manageable in a keezer. Glass storage is not often an option in a pre-made kegerator as the door is flat to provide maximum space for kegs (assume you were thinking of home made kegerator DJ)


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## WitWonder (8/5/14)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Excellent thread blokes.


...which you've pretty much derailed


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/14)

WitWonder said:


> ...which you've pretty much derailed


Maybe a little, but the original thrust of the thread was issues with keezer setups. I'm sort of asking "hey what's the advantages/disadvantages of a freezer/keezer, in light of these issues vs a kegerator".

If I send it much further away, I'll just create a new thread and transfer over the posts.


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## Nibbo (8/5/14)

I recently bought a new 300 Litre Hisense chesty. Comes with castors, holds 6 ball locks easily plus whatever will fit onto the hump. The hinges are just a few screws to remove to add a collar if needed and is simple to undo if a warranty issue crops up.. Power consumption is around 0.2 kW and day and this was with only a keg and a half in there. Obviously I can't vouch for longevity yet as it's only 6 weeks into it's new role but it's by far the best setup I've had so far.


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## Black n Tan (8/5/14)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Anyone have experience with the HiSense or Haier brand stuff brand new (only other chesties are F&P at a significant premium)?
> 
> Secondly - are the dimensions they give internal or external?
> 
> ...


I have three Haier freezers running as fermenting fridge, lagering fridge and keezer. The fermenting freezer is the oldest and is going fine after 2 years. The Haiers are cheap and energy efficient. You will need the HCF264 or larger to fit gets in without a collar. The dimensions given are external. The HCF 324 fits in 6 kegs. You will need a collar to fit a keg on the compressor humps.


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## pk.sax (8/5/14)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331194888609

330 + 147 freight

You have to phone pinnacle, they are 380 from the shop plus freight.

Last time I bought a F&P chesty capable of 5 kegs it cost me 420 at a sale. + shanks, taps etc.

So, yeah just a little more for a kegerator.

Or keg king eBay seller:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121330044265

452 + 112 freight. Ring keg king directly and see what you get. You're gonna ditch the cheap font setup and get a different one anyway.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/5/14)

practicalfool said:


> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331194888609
> 330 + 147 freight
> You have to phone pinnacle, they are 380 from the shop plus freight.
> Last time I bought a F&P chesty capable of 5 kegs it cost me 420 at a sale. + shanks, taps etc.
> ...


So you've had both and prefer the kegerator?

At 452 plus 112, and buying a new font (which I'd factored in), it's starting to get significantly dearer than a chestie.

But, I might be able to, with buying extra kegging equipment (kegs, reg, gas bottle etc) get a discount for the lot from keg king.


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## Wilkensone (8/5/14)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> So you've had both and prefer the kegerator?
> 
> At 452 plus 112, and buying a new font (which I'd factored in), it's starting to get significantly dearer than a chestie.
> 
> But, I might be able to, with buying extra kegging equipment (kegs, reg, gas bottle etc) get a discount for the lot from keg king.


not sure about shipping etc but cheeky peak seem to be great and have competitive pricing. 


Wilkens


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## pk.sax (9/5/14)

Yep, cheaky's equipment is really good. They are though let down by shipping costs on large items. I still got everything from them but freight to me in adelaide was barely 14 bux difference factoring everything in. Their font and shanks and taps are rather good value though. 46 for a 3 tap heavy duty ss font, 25 per ss shank. Then taps. Couldn't find better.

Pinnacle would have worked cheaper for the fridge at 380 + ship but they were out of stock then.

I have had both and do prefer the kegerator. Fact that I can open the door and put in/out a keg is the clincher. No lifting. With a collar and all it does get annoying to put stuff into the keezer.

Alternatively, why don't you source a second hand fridge with freezer on the bottom and...


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## stux (14/5/14)

Batz said:


> I have always bought older secondhand freezers, I like 500lt models. I'm on my second keg freezer first one died at 3 years, present is still going after 6 years.
> My fermenting chesty ( again 500lt) died after a couple of years.
> 
> I have never paid more than $100.00 for any of them, but it's a pain when one dies and your looking for another.
> ...


My F&P E442B upside down 5 keg fridge is still going super-strong, as good as the day I picked it up for free. 3 years as a keg fridge now... but its basically just a fridge.

Primary house fridge, which is a 520L Ice&Water model, coming on to 8 years I think, again, good as the day we got it.

My fermentation fridges, which are 20-30 years old... still going fine.

My parents F&P, again, its probably 15 years old now, and will be going to my sister when they switch to a larger Ice&Water model.

My brother in law just got the same ice/water model I have... because mine is so nice 

Anyway, one day, the ice&water will be 'upgraded' into a keg fridge  (assuming it lasts)

And my 30 year old chest freezer... still going strong too...

My personal experience is that fridges run at fridge temperatures go out of style before they die.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (14/5/14)

Stux said:


> Anyway, one day, the ice&water will be 'upgraded' into a keg fridge  (assuming it lasts)


A peverse part of me wonders if the "ice and water" components can be easily altered to be "beer and water"? Just to amuse guests.

Looks like I may be allowed to get the upright freezer only we got 2nd hand last year - basically because it's just filling with crap (and so I can move my hops in the main freezer out - which leaves the main freezer with enough room for the family) - you know, a dozen half eaten icecream containers and plastic chinese tupperware with pasta from 6 months ago.


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## pk.sax (14/5/14)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> A peverse part of me wonders if the "ice and water" components can be easily altered to be "beer and water"? Just to amuse guests.
> 
> Looks like I may be allowed to get the upright freezer only we got 2nd hand last year - basically because it's just filling with crap (and so I can move my hops in the main freezer out - which leaves the main freezer with enough room for the family) - you know, a dozen half eaten icecream containers and plastic chinese tupperware with pasta from 6 months ago.


Score


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## stux (14/5/14)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> A peverse part of me wonders if the "ice and water" components can be easily altered to be "beer and water"? Just to amuse guests.
> 
> Looks like I may be allowed to get the upright freezer only we got 2nd hand last year - basically because it's just filling with crap (and so I can move my hops in the main freezer out - which leaves the main freezer with enough room for the family) - you know, a dozen half eaten icecream containers and plastic chinese tupperware with pasta from 6 months ago.


It uses JG fittings 

Seriously though, the water comes in through an inline filter, then fills a 3L reservoir at the top of the fridge... that chills it. This reservoir then empties to the front door dispense panel. Beer would get flat, and although there is a flush/cleaning command you wouldn't want to be cleaning beer out of it 

Also, the ice maker (which is like a 8 cube flippy tray in the freezer) takes chilled water (or beer in this case) from the reservoir too.

I do fill my soda keg from the front door panel... just jam an eraser into the button and the water flows Manneken Pis style straight into the top portal


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## pk.sax (14/5/14)

One day someone will have a play with them and figure out a way to bypass said reservoir and hook up a corny to it.

Pipe dreams I say.


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## pedleyr (10/6/14)

Black n Tan said:


> I have three Haier freezers running as fermenting fridge, lagering fridge and keezer. The fermenting freezer is the oldest and is going fine after 2 years. The Haiers are cheap and energy efficient. You will need the HCF264 or larger to fit gets in without a collar. The dimensions given are external. The HCF 324 fits in 6 kegs. You will need a collar to fit a keg on the compressor humps.


Hey mate,

How many kegs do you reckon the HCF264 would fit on the floor without a collar?

I'm wanting to get a chesty and eventually mount a font to it, so want to avoid a collar if at all possible. Looking for at least 4 keg capacity. At the moment it's looking like either the F&P H215X (apparently gets 4 on the floor), the Haier HCF264 or the F&P H275X (apparently 5 on the floor, some have said they can get 6)...


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## Goose (13/6/14)

Very enlightening thread. I guess I got lucky with my F&P chesty. Served me proud for 7 years before it finally croaked... and that was holding between 2-4 deg C, situated outside with ambient in tropical temperatures 24x7.

Switched to a Micromatic 'fridge' this time, built for this purpose. It arrives soon. The one problem with these things is that you delay paying your mortgage off for a long time as a result


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