# Everyone Should Make This



## Neill

About 6 weeks ago i made this:

2 x 1.5kg Coopers LME tins (pale)
500g Dextrose
20g Centennial @ 30 min
40g Amarillo @ 20 min
40g Amarillo @ 10 min

Total 31 IBU

OG 1058

Pitch Nottingham (would probably work well with US-05 too) and keep the temps under 20 degrees.

FG 1013

I just tasted one of these and this is one of the most awesome beers i've ever made. It is unbelievably fruity - the Centennial addition takes it to another level from an all-amarillo beer, which i have also done before. It's like someone has squeezed a passionfruit into your beer and then topped it up with watermelon or something. I'm no good at describing flavours but this is a cracker of a combination of hops. I urge all extract/KnB brewers out there to give this a go! :icon_chickcheers: 

Cheers,

Neill


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## roverfj1200

How many litres did you make it up to and what was the boil volume 

Cheers


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## bum

Looks good. Not sure you're selling it to those who are not yet already converts to the Amarillo cause, though. I'll chuck that one on the list for summer. Throw her up on the DB.


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## Fourstar

Neill said:


> It is unbelievably fruity - the Centennial addition takes it to another level from an all-amarillo beer, which i have also done before. It's like someone has squeezed a passionfruit into your beer and then topped it up with watermelon or something.



All i can use to describe centennial is lemon sherberty/sour lollies/citrusy orange punch

in other words.... awesome!


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## Bribie G

What you have actually made is a more robust version of a Coopers Toucan lager. The toucan Coopers lager version is a kickarse kit brew but because you have made it a bit stronger and used some better hops then you have improved on it immensely. Also it's a fairly hop driven beer so should balance out nicely.

disclaimer: I'm an AG brewer but like to make toucans (just bottled a Coopers stout, 1kg dex, 1kg LDME aroma hops MoFo headbanger and it's lubberly) so nothing wrong with toucans as a style, that demonstrates what the kit makers could actually offer us if they wanted to :icon_cheers:


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## Neill

Doesn't taste anything like a toucan IMHO. Isohops =/ fresh amarillo/centennial

there's a fabulous aroma on this one too. I wouldn't touch the hop additions at all, do it just as i have described above, it seems to have hit a "sweet spot" with this combination of hops in those quantities. 

roverfj1200; made up to 23 litres (standard batch volume) and for the boil i just used 6L with about 1/3 of one of the LME tins added (600g in 6L is about right for gravity to utilise the hops properly)


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## Bribie G

That's what I meant, you have bypassed the isohop that they put in the kits and have put some real hops in so have ended up with the toucan that God would drink


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## lczaban

Good work Neill - might have to put this on the "to-brew" list...


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## Neill

Highly recommended! I've been doing these hop experiments lately with 3kg of LME, some dex and nottingham to basically get a taste of what each hop is providing in the flavour department. I had previously done an all-amarillo which was awesome, then i did an all-centennial which was great as well, but i had some of each left over so i combined them. It appears that i have magically struck one of those hop combinations that just works - like B-Saaz and Cascade for little creatures bright ale, they just seem to complement each other beautifully.

Give it a crack and let me know how you go!


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## Scruffy

Happy drinking!!


Psst, no-one mention Nelson Sauvin...ok?


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## Neill

actually i have some nelson leftover as well as some B-Saaz

Thinking of doing a boil 

20g B-Saaz 40 min
20g B-Saaz 10 min
20g Nelson 10 min

i did an all-nelson brew with 40g of late additions only and it was way too strong - has mellowed a lot now but it tasted like white wine initially!


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## WarmBeer

Neill,

Chuck it in the RecipeDB, so we can find it when we want to make one for ourselves.

Cheers.


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## Renegade

Good on ya, Neill - experimentation is the spice of life. And Amarillo is a great hop. If you do this again, you could replace one of the cans with the Coopers (unhopped) Wheat. And add some steeped crystal liqor. 



Scruffy said:


> Psst, no-one mention Nelson Sauvin...ok?



:icon_offtopic: I must ! Does anyone else find the NS to be a bit on the 'chemical perfume' side ?


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## Sydneybrewer

sounds like a nice drop will have to try this out


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## thanme

Thanks Neill!!

I'm about to do my first brew and it's going to somewhat resemble that. Nice to know it works well.
Mines going to be all Amarillo though, because I'm trying to learn what different hops are like.


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## Neill

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=867

I called it the Centenarillo ale. I want a few of you extract guys to make this and report back!

Feel free to steep some Crystal (about 200g) into this as well if you want more body and sweetness. I will do that next time i think. Will definately make this one again.


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## doon

I reckon this might just be my next brew, might do it soon to wasnt planning on one anytime soon but stuff it sounds good!


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## Mcstretch

doon said:


> I reckon this might just be my next brew, might do it soon to wasnt planning on one anytime soon but stuff it sounds good!




I think I'll also give this one a go next week. Just need to order in some goods first.


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## Nick JD

Neill - I think your base recipe:

2 x 1.5kg Coopers LME tins (pale)
500g Dextrose

With any combo of hops will give a fantastic beer. I haven't been able to break this beast yet. And I've tried some hideous combos of hops.

It all leads me to believe that making beer with _actual hops_ makes delicious beer. Doesn't matter much which hops ... just as long as they are green and delicious.

Although, may I add one little consideration: adding steeped carapils (3-400g) gives a graininess and "thickness" that makes one have to scrub the head remnants off the glasses the next day.

I'm going to order centennial and amarillo now. Can I suggest you order Southern Cross?


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## Neill

Yeah you're spot on nick - it's the base i use for most of my ales now. Good head retention and clarity, i have started steeping crystal into it now to give a bit more body and that improves it even more. With a few spec grains in this it comes out close to the "feel" of an AG beer, not quite but pretty close.

I just bottled a Hallertau bomb with this base which had 60g of late additions of hallertau only. Hoping it's a good one!

Next try is nelson and B-Saaz. 

Then onto another go at a LCBA (last one had nowhere near enough hops, it needs a full 80g of B-saaz and cascade i think. Either that or the US05 scrubbed all the hop flavours out.


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## Wisey

Neill your a champ, thats exactly what I need at the moment.

AG is on the list once I can afford the setup...... at the moment tho - kits seem to be it.


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## Wisey

Just boiling this concoction up now.... it smells great


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## bullsneck

I'm looking to pimp your base recipe here...

1 can unhopped malt extract
500g wheat malt
500g DME
200g carapils
250g crystal malt

How does that sound?

Hops would be something american...


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## Neill

that would be fine mate, but definately try it with the hop schedule i've listed above. it's a hop-driven beer and it won't taste even vaguely similar to my recipe if you change the hops totally. it's a good combination!

wisey let me know how you go. are you steeping any crystal or anything? Use nottingham if you can get it, i have just tasted a US-05 brew i did a while back and it seems to scrub more of the hop flavour out than the notto does.


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## Wisey

couldnt get ahold of nottingham on craftbrewer last week, so am using us05 insted

It smells very grassy in the fermentor, hopefully she is ready to be kegged by the weekend


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## Thunderlips

Just a quick question regarding extract brewing...

Do most people use hop bags or just throw the pellets in the pot?

If using bags, do you remove them when you add the next addition of hops or leave them all in there at the same time?

Thanks.


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## Pennywise

Personally I just throw them in the pot, I wouldn't bother with a hop sock unless you are using quite a large amount of hops. 
If using the sock method then leave the previous addition in when adding more hops.


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## Power Wolf

Thunderlips said:


> Just a quick question regarding extract brewing...
> 
> Do most people use hop bags or just throw the pellets in the pot?
> 
> If using bags, do you remove them when you add the next addition of hops or leave them all in there at the same time?
> 
> Thanks.



As homebrewer79 said.....
I just chuck em in the pot, things settle in the fermenter, no hassles and the only sediment I ever get is yeast.

On a side note, morning posts are rare for me but i dreamed of home brew last night, talk about obsessed.
Cheers all!


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## Thunderlips

Thanks HB79 and Power Wolf.

So Power Wolf, you don't even put it through a strainer before pouring it into the fermenter?


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## Pennywise

No need to Thunderlips, they'll settle to the bottom of the fermenter anyway. I would however, strain if using alot of hops. But I have used up to 100g with no problems concerning blocked taps etc.


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## Power Wolf

Thunderlips said:


> Thanks HB79 and Power Wolf.
> 
> So Power Wolf, you don't even put it through a strainer before pouring it into the fermenter?



Yeah thanks for getting onto that before me HB79(Are you a metal head by any chance?). I strain when I'm using grains but sometimes go about the hops additions in a round about way...

When I first started brewing adding hops 4 or 5 years ago I used to just heat a coopers can, add sugar/dextrose/malt and just heap that and whatever hops my mate suggested to a fermenter.... Still on extracts but feel as though I've come a long way from there! I think some are wary at first about using hops, and think it's really difficult but in reality it's so simple.

Recently I've had a couple of 'blocked' taps which seem just to be yeast sediment but find that just running out half a glass sorts that out.

Cheers,

Drinking : Coffee.


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## Thunderlips

Thanks fellas.


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## Pennywise

Power Wolf said:


> Recently I've had a couple of 'blocked' taps which seem just to be yeast sediment but find that just running out half a glass sorts that out.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Drinking : Coffee.




Try to prop up your fermenter right under the tap (I find that a 2.5kg dumbell works well), so that when the trub settles it'll settle mostly on the oposite side. You just need to be a little more careful when moving the fermenter though.


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## stufoster

Neill said:


> Yeah you're spot on nick - it's the base i use for most of my ales now. Good head retention and clarity, i have started steeping crystal into it now to give a bit more body and that improves it even more. With a few spec grains in this it comes out close to the "feel" of an AG beer, not quite but pretty close.
> 
> I just bottled a Hallertau bomb with this base which had 60g of late additions of hallertau only. Hoping it's a good one!
> 
> Next try is nelson and B-Saaz.
> 
> Then onto another go at a LCBA (last one had nowhere near enough hops, it needs a full 80g of B-saaz and cascade i think. Either that or the US05 scrubbed all the hop flavours out.


I did one of these with some left over Hallertau and the Safale yeast last summer. Best beer ever. I added about 200gms of crystal malt as well.


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## Thunderlips

I kegged Neill's recipe today and whoa, what a huge step up from kits, the 3kg jobs included.
Even better I reckon than the fresh worts I've tried in the past.

I can't get over how good it smells 

So I've ordered a bigger pot from Allquip and next up will be the Coopers Sparkling recipe and to see 
if I can find a hoegaarden copy.

Good onya Neill !


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## Bizier

Cheers for the inspiration Neill.

I have to come up with a recipe to teach my GF's father how to brew in Sept. I might use a variation on this because of the sheer simplicity.

I am not going to go the Amarillo because he is a VB drinker through and through, but I am not going to go POR either. I might stick with the Centennial and perhaps one more hop that is not going to make a total fruit bomb.

Good work Thunderlips... you sound hooked!


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## Wisey

Just sitting here sipping this ale, not bad, but the steeped crystal would give it body that im missing with just the LME + Hops.


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## pike1973

I would like to know if that the first hop addition is at 30 min does that mean that the total boil time is 30 min or longer?
Thanks Ads.


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## steve_steve

this sounds like the kind of beer i would love. i have brewed three different brews before but i have always struggled with when to add hops, always leading to erratic results. this recipe has hops at three different stages using times but (i'm sorry if i'm an annoying prick!) can someone explain when they should be added? i've never understood what the times relate to...

cheers in advance!


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## BjornJ

Guys,
the different recipes use boil times and % values for the hops to add.

% means how "bitter" (Alpha Acid percentage the hops contain) the hops used are, so if they say "20 gr of 6% Saaz" and you have 3% Saaz you would use twice as much as the recipe says. (when buying hops in 100 gr tubs or more it says the % on them.

the boil time is counted from when you finish the boil, so not from the start.
This is because the longer they boil ,the more bitter the beer will be.
So a 5 minute boil means to add the hops at 5 minutes before you plan to finish boiling, then fish the hops back out (at once, or after having chilled the wort)
A 30 minute hop boil would mean just that, you get a rolling boil, add the 30 minute hops, then another hop bag at 10 minutes, 5 min or whatever the recipe says.
The different times gives different flavor parts, such as aroma, "flavor" or bittering,

this is a great read if you want to do more:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5.html 

thanks
Bjorn


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## Thunderlips

BjornJ said:


> The different times gives different flavor parts, such as aroma, "flavor" or bittering,


If I understand it correctly I believe the first addition is bittering, the second is flavour and the 
third is aroma.

Is that right?


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## BjornJ

Thunderlips said:


> If I understand it correctly I believe the first addition is bittering, the second is flavour and the
> third is aroma.
> 
> Is that right?




Yes, that is 100 % right.
The first hop addition to be added is where you start timing your boil from. So if you say want to use 10 gr of Saaz for bittering, you will put 10 gr of hops in say a small netting bag from a $2 store, tie it up and throw it in the pot when boiling. This is your starting point, it decides how long the entire boil will last. 
If the recipe says "10 gr of Saaz at 60 minutes" and you throw the hops in at 1:00 PM, you will finish boiling at 2:00 PM.
Then the recipe says "10 grams of Cascade at 20 minutes" and since you plan to stop boiling at 2:00, 20 minutes before that is 1:40 PM, you throw the second hop bag in at 1:40.
Then the recipe says for instance "20 grams of Saaz at 5 minutes", so 5 minutes before end-of-boil is 1:55 PM, you throw in the third hop bag at 5 minutes before you plan to stop boiling.

Hop bag 1: 60 minutes boil, most of the flavor and aroma will boil away, leaving a bitter effect
Hop bag 2: 20 minutes boil, will leave a little bittering, mostly flavour but some aroma will still be left
hop bag 3: 5 minutes boil, not enough time to bitter the beer much, not enough time to give lots of flavor, but enough to give that nice, fresh aroma or smell.

Please look at this graph as it gives a good illustration of 
-how long do you boil the hops based on what you are aiming for
-do you need to boil a long time, or are you only after a bit of flavor







If you are doing kit beers, buy a "teabag" of hops, one of those foil bags with 12-15 gr of hops. Don't worry about the AA% as you will not use it for bittering.
Boil it in some water, steep it like a teabag or even boil som Malt Extract and then boil the hops in this, looking at the graph to decide how long to boil it. Aim for say 5-10 minutes as a first go at adding hops.

The shorter the boil, the more "fresh" the beer will smell/taste and you don't want (I assume) to do hop additions to make your beer more bitter as the cans come "pre hopped" to a level of bitterness.

thanks
Bjorn


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## Thunderlips

BjornJ said:


> Please look at this graph as it gives a good illustration of
> -how long do you boil the hops based on what you are aiming for
> -do you need to boil a long time, or are you only after a bit of flavor
> 
> View attachment 30399


Good one.

That'll come in handy, thanks.


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## mwd

If you don't have or use hop bags or stockings you can get a nylon kitchen seive from K-Mart.

They have a white plastic looking frame with a nylon mesh which looks a bit flimsy but is quite strong and can stand boiling fluid easily. I press the hop sludge quite hard with a wooden spoon to extract the most of the fluid and have not managed to break the seive yet.

I put the seive over the mouth of the fermenter and pour the boiled hop malt mixture through it. 

edit: forgot that the hop mush has actually been cooled by standing pot in sink of cold water before adding to fermenter.


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## Neill

my particular method is to get 5L of water in a big pot, bring it to the boil, add 1/3 of a tin of LME (so 500g) to the water, stir it well and when it starts boiling again, start adding the hops. in this case we add 20g of centennial, boil it for 10 mins, then add 40g of amarillo, boil it all for another 10 mins, throw in another 40g of amarillo and boil it for another 10 mins again. turn the heat off, pour the hot liquid through a strainer into the fermenter - you may have to do this in two stages as the hop material will clog the strainer. then add the rest of the LME and dex, mix it all well and top up to 23L with cold water. Wait till it's at 20 degrees then pitch your US05 or Notto.

When you're more confident with this type of brew, steep some cracked crystal grains to add a shade more complexity to the body of the beer.

Just finished one of these brews - bloody beautiful. The hop aroma is fading quickly on this one though - i recommend drinking it at 3 weeks in the bottle and finishing the batch within 8 weeks for full effect.


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## Splash

Heya fellow homebrewers.

This is my first post but I have been lurking here for a while and picking up much useful information, so thanks to all on the site!


I have been kits and bits for a year or so now, but I want to graduate to all extract (no equipment for AG... yet) and this thread has caught my eye. (I have done some grain steeping and made a raspberry beer with frozen fruit but that's the extent of my adventures so far.)


My question is about doing an experimental half-batch. When halving all the ingredients I assume I halve the hop amounts too? (but not the boil times obviously...) Would I halve the amount of water I boil them in too? Advice appreciated!

The other issue is that my local homebrew store doesn't have Centennial, so I was thinking of using Cascade and Amarillo... is this a bad idea? Revised boil amounts/times for a half batch?

Or even better, does anyone in Brisbane know where I can get Centennial?


Hello!

-Splash


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## Neill

mate full extract brewing is an extremely simple step from kits and bits, i wouldn't bother with half batches, just do it 

but if you have to.....

halve everything. the hops, the extract amounts, the yeast pitching rates, everything. Everything except the boil times, and boil volume. Keep the boil times and gravity of the boil exactly the same.

So if you wanted to do a half batch of my recipe here, use;

1.5kg LME
250g Dex
steep 100g or so of cracked crystal grains or something if you want
boil 5L of water with 1/3 of one of the tins of LME in it. Add 10g of Centennial, boil for 10 mins. Then add 20g of Amarillo for another 10 mins, and finally another 20g of Amarillo for the final 10 mins.

Cascade and amarillo is an excellent combination as well. The other one to try to replace the centennial would be Galaxy, which i hear as somewhat similar to Centennial.


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## Splash

Neill said:


> mate full extract brewing is an extremely simple step from kits and bits, i wouldn't bother with half batches, just do it
> 
> but if you have to.....




Wanting to halve it has more to do with how few bottles I'll have free after I bottle the porter currently in the fermenter, and also wanting to get this brew on before the Brisbane weather turns brew-unfriendly again.  

Thanks for the advice! I think I can get Galaxy so maybe I'll go with that instead of the Cascade... Will keep you posted how it turns out. 


-Splash


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## Kieren

BjornJ said:


> Please look at this graph as it gives a good illustration of
> -how long do you boil the hops based on what you are aiming for
> -do you need to boil a long time, or are you only after a bit of flavor
> 
> View attachment 30399




Nice little graph Bjorn. 

Can I ask where you got it from?


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## BjornJ

Kieren said:


> Nice little graph Bjorn.
> 
> Can I ask where you got it from?




Someone put it up here on the forums, I think.
I downloaded a copy of the picture at the time and use when making a recipe to try to get picture of how long to boil the hops.
Not sure who made it originally, does it look familiar?

Bjorn


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## Kieren

BjornJ said:


> Someone put it up here on the forums, I think.
> I downloaded a copy of the picture at the time and use when making a recipe to try to get picture of how long to boil the hops.
> Not sure who made it originally, does it look familiar?
> 
> Bjorn



No, never seen a graph like this. Just wanted to who came up with it and how. Was interested if it applies to all hop varieties. Would imagine there might be a bit of variance with hops of different percentages of oil content and so on. Gives a good general guide though. 

I do note that most flavour additions I see in recipes are at 30 mins while the graph peaks closer to 20 mins for maximum flavour.


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## BjornJ

Kieren said:


> I do note that most flavour additions I see in recipes are at 30 mins while the graph peaks closer to 20 mins for maximum flavour.




I have only done a couple of AGs myself but have read a bit of recipes and mostly the recipes seem to call for 
60 min for bittering
20 min for flavor 
(possibly 5 min or 0 min for aroma)
(possibly dry hopping in the secondary)

But I am sure there are lots of different recipes out there.

How accurat this graph is, I can not vouch for, simply passing on someone else's work here  

According to Palmer, you are right:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html 
He says the most common is to boil flavor hops 30 min.

Could this possibly have changed in the last decades with new hop varieties with different AA%, no idea.
Another reason is possibly the more hop-flavored beers that has become more popular in recent years.

Thanks
Bjorn


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## oaf

Neill said:


> ... made up to 23 litres (standard batch volume) and for the boil i just used 6L with about 1/3 of one of the LME tins added (600g in 6L is about right for gravity to utilise the hops properly)




G'day Neill,

Does it make a difference how much malt you're boiling the hops in??

I thought you'da used all of the malt...

I've also never used that much water - 4L with 3 to 4 kg malt in the boil.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

-Oaf.

p.s. this is by far my favourite site. I've been trial and error brewing nearly six years now as a lone wolf and never learnt so much in so little time. My obsession is fast getting out of control now as I've recently acquired a 50L glass double fermenter (good riddance plastic), a fermenting fridge and ten 19L kegs... I'm also obsessed with ginger beer at the moment - hope that's not too lame - it seems to make you 'aliver' as you get stupider. (I still have bottles for trading goods and services, but avoid them if possible.) 
End of rant - I luv brewing!


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## Neill

Yes it does make a difference, ideally you would boil the hops in the whole batch (23L) but since i don't have a massive pot or enough gas power to get that to the boil, we tend to just do smaller boils which still come out okay. The important thing is that the gravity of the boiled liquid is roughly 1040. This gives the best (and most consistent) utilisation of the hops for bittering and flavour. To make the boil liquid 1040, you can basically use 100g of sugar/malt/DME per litre. I usually don't bother measuring it specifically but just guesstimate 500g of LME into a 5L pot of water or so.

Sticking 3kg of LME into 5L of water is going to give you a massive gravity reading and the hop utilisation will likely suffer for it. Aim for 1040.

Of course at the end of the boil, if you really want to, you can throw in all the fermentables to the pot so as to sterilise them. I usually just put the rest of the LME in right at the end, stir it for 10 seconds then throw into the fermenter.


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## Bribie G

Fellow little-old-lady-from-Pasadena 60 y.o. at work likes a drop and I occasionally bring her a bottle to try. About this time last year I gave her a 2 PET of a toucan similar to Neill's recipe (toucan lager and bits) and she is still raving over it, says she prefers it to the AG's and is interested in taking up brewing because she is spending too much on vodka :icon_drunk: - makes her fall off her Kawasaki as well (you wouldn't believe this chick).

So I'll help her and her son get set up and donate some Notto and hops and crank out the current recipe here. I tried her on a Stout toucan 9% with extra hops so she's not averse to hoppiness. Good opportunity to get a new brewer going and completely bypass the sugar / BE2 etc stuff and get her ordering her bits from Ross. 

:icon_cheers:


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## Neill

Mate it's a cracker for sure, i reckon she'll love it! I had a few more of these tonight - the passionfruit is fading quickly so drink them fast! Every beer drinker i've given this to has loved it - even the megaswill proponents


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## oaf

Neill said:


> ... the important thing is that the gravity of the boiled liquid is roughly 1040. This gives the best (and most consistent) utilisation of the hops for bittering and flavour. To make the boil liquid 1040, you can basically use 100g of sugar/malt/DME per litre. I usually don't bother measuring it specifically but just guesstimate 500g of LME into a 5L pot of water or so.
> 
> Sticking 3kg of LME into 5L of water is going to give you a massive gravity reading and the hop utilisation will likely suffer for it. Aim for 1040.
> 
> 
> Thanks mate!
> 
> Shall try this on my next brew... maybe then I'll try this Toucan that's being raved about - I'm intrigued.
> 
> Cheers - Oaf


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## Maeldric

Was planning on making this brew last week but my local home brew shop didnt have any centenial hops. Had some Hallertauer lying around so used that instead. Used 3kg of LME also threw in a couple hundred grams of crystal, the hallertauer and amerillo hops. Been a week in the fermenter now and its just about reached its final gravity. Tasted the hydro test and wow. This is going to be a lovely beer to drink, just gonna have to get my hands on some centenial next time to try the recipe to the T. Nice work mate on the recipe. will be one of my regulars.


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## Neill

the hallertau will probably be drowned out by the amarillo - but that's fine because a big late hopped amarillo beer is a good thing in itself! the centennial is another powerful hop and goes very well with the amarillo.


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## WarmBeer

Made this one last night, but as a full-volume-boil extract brew, and using US-05 instead of Notto.

Will report back on it in a couple of weeks, but smelled pretty good going into the fermenter.


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## Maeldric

You're right about the amerillo overpowering the hallertauer. Pretty much could only taste the amerillo but i could think of a lot of things much worse than an amerillo flavoured beer. Man im getting thirsty now.... might have to pour myself a cup outa the cold conditioning vessel when i get home from work.


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## davecambo

guys i cant find anywhere the coopers LME (pale) for the life of me. I can find light, amber, dark and wheat LME but no pale. can someone provide me with a link or something so i know what you guys are talking about. It sounds delicious but i need help here!

cheers.


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## marlow_coates

DaveCambo,

I would have thought 'light' and 'pale' where the same.

Marlow


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## davecambo

thanks mate!


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## Neill

yep they're the same. really just refers to the colour of the extract more than anything. for this style of beer a "light" or "pale" is going to be spot on.


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## kiwisteveo

Neill said:


> About 6 weeks ago i made this:
> 
> 2 x 1.5kg Coopers LME tins (pale)
> 500g Dextrose
> 20g Centennial @ 30 min
> 40g Amarillo @ 20 min
> 40g Amarillo @ 10 min
> 
> Total 31 IBU
> 
> OG 1058
> 
> Pitch Nottingham (would probably work well with US-05 too) and keep the temps under 20 degrees.
> 
> FG 1013
> 
> I just tasted one of these and this is one of the most awesome beers I've ever made. It is unbelievably fruity - the Centennial addition takes it to another level from an all-amarillo beer, which i have also done before. It's like someone has squeezed a passionfruit into your beer and then topped it up with watermelon or something. I'm no good at describing flavours but this is a cracker of a combination of hops. I urge all extract/KnB brewers out there to give this a go! :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Neill




Am wondering,cause i'm new to this is your hop boil only 30mins(when centennial goes in) from start to finish??


----------



## Andrew Coleman

That hop combination sounds perfect for my next beer man, good work!! i'll put my recipie up when i finalised the recipie!


----------



## Andrew Coleman

*Amarillo*- alpha acid: 8-11% / beta acid: 6-7%
*Centennial- *alpha acid: 9.5-11.5% / beta acid: 4.0-5.0%

Here's what IBU it came up with on the BYO website calculator, im not that experienced but it sounds to me that the hops could be to bitter/strong..hmmmm......id appreciate some feed back from anyone with more experience cheers! still keen on using this combination of hops just not sure about amounts ay.


----------



## reviled

Itll be fine mate, it wont be too bitter!

Neill, you should try dry hopping 40gms of Amarillo to really boost the hop aroma! Itll smell like mandarins :icon_drool2:


----------



## Mcstretch

Hi,

I recently made this one and I've gotta say that its like nothing I've ever tried before. Its actually quite difficult to describe the flavour. Mine has been in the bottle for about 2 weeks now so its probably still a little young and sweeeet but it sure does taste good.

definately one that I'll be making again.

Cheers


----------



## Ales_Away

Neill, thanks heaps for your experimentation and recipe! I did my first extract brew using this recipe as a base/guide.
I used the same hop schedule however i steeped 200gms carapils and 250 crystal light. 
Also didn't use any Dex, only DME. Of which I (accidently) put too much.
OG was 1.064
Samples so far smell great! They are a bit overly cloudy however, don't matter though as I'm planning on racking to a secondary with gelatin for a week, so that should mostly clear it up.

Can't wait to taste it!! SWMBO even says it smells good!!

Cheers.


----------



## Neill

still the best beer i've made yet, although my hallertau bomb is pretty awesome as well. gunna have to get some more amarillo and centennial and do this one again i think.

Drewcifer; when i did the calculations on the IBU's it came out at 35 IBU, i used a different program though. strange! it wasn't bitter at all.


----------



## glaab

Beersmith calculates this to be 46.5 IBU. My Amarillo is 8.7%AA and Centennial is 9.7%AA.
That would be way too bitter for me. Maybe your hops had lower AA% Niell, did you record AA% in your notes ?


----------



## bum

Are you guys calculating off his first post or the 6lt boil volume described in post 6?


----------



## glaab

I boil 300g in 3 litres, thats what beersmith is set to, boil SG of 1036. Actually says 48.5 IBUs, going blind.




*actually have it set for boil 500g in 5 liter but it doesn't seem to matter as long as the ratio is the same
also just noticed I got the 10 min addition set for 5min, set to 10 it jumps to 55 IBU


----------



## Andrew Coleman

Just got the hops in the mail from craftbrewer.com.au god daym those centennial are hard to get your hands on! im happy now though, i'll post again when i've put this recipie together, may be a little while though im buying a fridge coz effing adelaide weather is so tempremental at the moment! i just don't trust it, especially when im brewing a beer thats cost me over the $60 mark! my last beer i made for my mates was a corona HA! cost me lyk $20 for a 27L batch !


----------



## Ales_Away

I used ianH's kit & extract brew spreadsheet and the IBU came out at 37.5. AA% for the hops was 8.5% each.


----------



## Neill

damn i just looked through my notes and i didn't write down the AA of the hops. i used IanH's spreadsheet too. maybe the calculations are off? anyway it wasn't bitter at all - just perfect!


----------



## glaab

I just tried it on Ians extract beer designer thingy and got 58 IBUs. {set AA% to 9.7 & 8.7}
It comes to 31 IBU which you said in your OP if you add those amounts at 30, 10 & 0 in BS
maybe you did that Neill ? I know from past stuff ups that if BS says 40 or more it's ridiculously bitter.
I'm keen to try it, I might tweak it to 33 ish and give it a go and report back. Going AG soon but I been turning out some ok extracts lately, getting the bitterness / balance just right seems to be the major difference between good beer and fertiliser.

Apart from the Centennial it looks a lot like DrSmurtos JSGA extract :icon_drool2: , all this beer talk's making me thirsty.


----------



## barneyb

I think I'm going to try this one next for my first boil. 

Just to be clear, the Coopers Cans used from the original recipe are the Australian Pale Ale cans right?

Also if I order the Centennial hops from QLD to NSW will they be ok from the transport?


----------



## glaab

barneyb said:


> I think I'm going to try this one next for my first boil.
> 
> Just to be clear, the Coopers Cans used from the original recipe are the Australian Pale Ale cans right?
> 
> Also if I order the Centennial hops from QLD to NSW will they be ok from the transport?



No, they are unhopped malt extract LLME/ Light Liquid Malt Extract. 1.5kg each.
The hops will be ok in the post. Cheers


----------



## Pennywise

Kieren said:


> No, never seen a graph like this. Just wanted to who came up with it and how. Was interested if it applies to all hop varieties. Would imagine there might be a bit of variance with hops of different percentages of oil content and so on. Gives a good general guide though.
> 
> I do note that most flavour additions I see in recipes are at 30 mins while the graph peaks closer to 20 mins for maximum flavour.




It's from this site http://www.brewsupplies.com/hop_characteristics.htm


----------



## glaab

here's my doktered up version, the old one looks backwards to me


----------



## barneyb

glaab said:


> No, they are unhopped malt extract LLME/ Light Liquid Malt Extract. 1.5kg each.


Ahh I see, anyone know where you can get these in Sydney? I know my LHBS doesn't stock them, only the Coopers Kits.


----------



## Wisey

Any coopers stockists should keep them

Just buy Dry Malt extract if you cant find it


----------



## barneyb

Just wondering, seeing as this is only a 30min boil, wouldn't there be no bittering added from the hops? 





Wisey said:


> Any coopers stockists should keep them
> 
> Just buy Dry Malt extract if you cant find it


Cheers.


----------



## WarmBeer

barneyb said:


> Just wondering, seeing as this is only a 30min boil, wouldn't there be no bittering added from the hops?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.



Having a look at the infamous utilisation chart (3 posts back), you get approximately 50% of the bitterness utilisation at 30 mins in comparison to the utilisation after 60. So, there is bittering, only half as much.

Saying that, I have made this recipe to the original specification, and I reckon a longer boil would not go astray. Make no mistake, there's a good deal of hoppiness in it, but imho, it could carry a few more IBU's. Maybe try extending the 30 min additions out to 45 mins, but keep the 20 and 10's as they are. 

Your mileage may vary.


----------



## barneyb

Oh yeah of course, if only I read back the last page again instead of blindly posting whatever comes into my head! :blink:


----------



## WarmBeer

Welcome to the internet, my friend, where blind opinion is much more important than research


----------



## The Big Burper

WarmBeer said:


> Welcome to the internet, my friend, where blind opinion is much more important than research


----------



## Splash

WarmBeer said:


> Having a look at the infamous utilisation chart (3 posts back), you get approximately 50% of the bitterness utilisation at 30 mins in comparison to the utilisation after 60. So, there is bittering, only half as much.
> 
> Saying that, I have made this recipe to the original specification, and I reckon a longer boil would not go astray. Make no mistake, there's a good deal of hoppiness in it, but imho, it could carry a few more IBU's. Maybe try extending the 30 min additions out to 45 mins, but keep the 20 and 10's as they are.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.



I am drinking a version of this recipe now (I used cascade & armarillo) and would agree re: longer boil would improve it. This was my first go at extract and learned a lot, plus as an added bonus I got some very drinkable beer! 

Can't go back to kits now - just bottled Smurto's JSGA and the sample was very promising. Heatwave here in Brisbane caused some problems but I kept it below 24 at all times so hopefully it'll be a winner.


----------



## bullfrog

Just boiled one of these (steeped 200g of crystal into it, apart from that, original recipe)...my old man was here and he couldn't stop saying how much the hops (particularly the amarillo) smells like weed. His 70's flashbacks made my night  

Will let you know how well it turns out.

Cheers for the recipe, Neill

EDIT: realised that my dad wasn't even in his teens in the 60's, so fixed up the time-line.


----------



## bullfrog

...shouldn't brew at this time of night...

Topped up to 23L just to realise that I hadn't added the rest of my LME. Sitting at around 25.5L now and expecting a krausen overflow. Probably time I learnt about blow off tubes...

Yet to pitch, though (still waiting for wort to hit pitching temp), any suggestions? Should I pitch at this batch size (I've got two and a half inches from my wort to my fermenter lid) or should I drain some?

I'm going to use Nottingham, if that helps responses.


----------



## bullfrog

For those that will read this in the morning; I pitched once I hit 20C...hoping for pretty calm krausen activity on this one...


----------



## whitegoose

Just tried my first glass of this beer out of the keg. Absolutely spectacular!!! Passionfruit, melon, BAM!!

The bitterness is fine in my beer, I dont think it needed a longer boil at all. Stoked!!


----------



## Neill

Glad you liked it man! anyone else cracked one yet? i actually put this recipe down again last night, it's the first one i've ever redone after going through some 20 plus batches of extract beer in the last 18 months. i hope i can recreate the original, it's a pearler


----------



## barneyb

I have one conditioning in bottles but I substituted the Centennial with Cascade so it is not the same beer. I wish I knew about Ianh's spreadsheet when I did it cause the Cascade ups the IBU's to 45.1 which is a bit higher than the original!

How long do you guys normally condition a beer like this?


----------



## glaab

subbing the Cent for Cascade should decrease the IBU's, it has a lower AA%. If it's too bitter a few months will tone it down some. Usually I'd leave it for a month at least after bottling. :chug:


----------



## Flash_DG

Bought all the ingredients for this today will be brewing it tomorrow.
Looking forward to trying out Amarillo after hearing from you guys about how great it tastes :icon_drool2: 

I have one question to do with the bitterness.
I use IanH spreadsheet and I also use Beersmith, now beersmith says I will get 23.8 IBU in a 10L boil and the spreadsheet says I will get 54.1 with a 10L boil.
so which one is right?


----------



## glaab

make sure in BS that you check the "add after boil" box for anything not in the 10L boil. For a 10L boil you need about 1100g of DME for a SG of 1045, check your boil SG in "preview brewsheet"[has major effect on IBU's]. I would just boil 3L, it's easier to get down to your pitching temp with some ice. Post your .bsm file if you want someone to check it. Cheers


----------



## Flash_DG

glaab said:


> make sure in BS that you check the "add after boil" box for anything not in the 10L boil. For a 10L boil you need about 1100g of DME for a SG of 1045, check your boil SG in "preview brewsheet"[has major effect on IBU's]. I would just boil 3L, it's easier to get down to your pitching temp with some ice. Post your .bsm file if you want someone to check it. Cheers


Ah makes much more sense now  

Don't have any problem getting 10L done to pitch temp but I will go for a smaller boil now I know how to adjust it.

Thanks for that


----------



## roo_dr

I just had to have a go at this, but changed the hops to Chinook and Hallertau:

2 x 1.5kg LME tins (one tin added at the end of the boil)
200g steeped Caramunich

40g Chinook @ 45mins
20g Chinook @ 30mins
20g Hallertau @ 20mins
20g Hallertau @ 1min

OG 1042

US-05


Two days of bubbling and it smells amazing. 

Off to get some ice for the sink now, it's 40oC here and the fermenter just passed 23.

Thinking of splitting into two separate batches for secondary and dry hopping one. Any suggestions?


----------



## Neill

so what you have actually made, is in fact, totally different in almost every possible way from the recipe i posted? Thus not resembling the taste of the original recipe even vaguely?


----------



## glaab

Neill said:


> so what you have actually made, is in fact, totally different in almost every possible way from the recipe i posted? Thus not resembling the taste of the original recipe even vaguely?



whaddya mean, he got the 3kg of goo in there didn't he?


----------



## pikerinoz

Hey
I'll be making this in the next few days. How and when would I steep the crystal?
Cheers
Chris


----------



## bullfrog

pikerinoz said:


> Hey
> I'll be making this in the next few days. How and when would I steep the crystal?
> Cheers
> Chris



Sit it in a container with hot water for ~30 mins. Before you start your boil, strain the liquid off the grain into the pot. Return the grain to your container and top it back up with more hot water. Strain the liquid into your pot again then you're good to start your boil and start adding hops, etc.

There are a few more complicated nuances that can be applied but that's a good simple way to start using grain.

EDIT: Clarity.


----------



## pikerinoz

thanks bullfrog
how much water and grain would I use. I'll be making a 23L batch from a 5L boil.


----------



## manticle

pikerinoz said:


> thanks bullfrog
> how much water and grain would I use. I'll be making a 23L batch from a 5L boil.



Good article on steeping grains here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80


----------



## roo_dr

QUOTE (Neill @ Dec 16 2009, 03:46 PM) 
so what you have actually made, is in fact, totally different in almost every possible way from the recipe i posted? Thus not resembling the taste of the original recipe even vaguely? 


Ok, point made - same same but different.

Bet it still tastes good though B)


----------



## Dementedchook

Cracked a bottle of this today. Been in the bottle since the 28th November, really liking it. Thinking about fiddling with it a little next time I make it by adding a little caramalt, maybe 250g, seeing I've got some sitting around. But as is, it's good.


----------



## bullfrog

pikerinoz said:


> thanks bullfrog
> how much water and grain would I use. I'll be making a 23L batch from a 5L boil.



Sorry for the late reply mate, been a bit too busy over the weekend with family to come online.

When I first started steeping grain, I'd weigh out about 150-200g and pop it into a 1L coffee strainer which then had the rest filled up with hot water. A coffee strainer is good because you can just drain right from that.

I tend to do bigger batches of different spec grains now so my coffee strainer is a bit small, but I'd be starting with about those amounts until you know how much of what type of grain you like, etc.

Let us know how you go!


----------



## ivanhoe

+1 on the coffee strainer! 

Although, how critical is the temperature control when steeping? I have read that it should be 60 - 70oC for 30 minutes?


----------



## manticle

It's not critical because you're not converting starch to sugar. You can even cold steep overnight. It's best not to go too hot as you can supposedly extract bitter tannins (in early steeping days I had one or too come to the boil briefly with no issue). Maintaining 60 -70 is essentially good practice for mashing base malt if that's where your beer making takes you.


----------



## chas

Neill said:


> my particular method is to get 5L of water in a big pot, bring it to the boil, add 1/3 of a tin of LME (so 500g) to the water, stir it well and when it starts boiling again, start adding the hops. in this case we add 20g of centennial, boil it for 10 mins, then add 40g of amarillo, boil it all for another 10 mins, throw in another 40g of amarillo and boil it for another 10 mins again. turn the heat off, pour the hot liquid through a strainer into the fermenter - you may have to do this in two stages as the hop material will clog the strainer. then add the rest of the LME and dex, mix it all well and top up to 23L with cold water. Wait till it's at 20 degrees then pitch your US05 or Notto.
> 
> When you're more confident with this type of brew, steep some cracked crystal grains to add a shade more complexity to the body of the beer.
> 
> Just finished one of these brews - bloody beautiful. The hop aroma is fading quickly on this one though - i recommend drinking it at 3 weeks in the bottle and finishing the batch within 8 weeks for full effect.



Not wanting to be a pain in the arse or anything.

what do you recommend in terms of secondary fermentation. I have a batch fermenting away beautifully, (Put it together yesterday) in my fridge at 19 deg. I was intending to bottle when the sg stabilises with the addition of 2 carbonation drops into each 740 ml bottle, and leave for 3 weeks. Is this what you would have advised?

Much appreciated,

Chas


----------



## Neill

yeah or you can rack it to clear it out a bit, won't make much difference to the flavour but i do it anyway for clarity and to re use the yeast cake. Hope ya like it!


----------



## rclemmett

manticle said:


> You can even cold steep overnight.



You could, but you wouldn't.

1. Bacteria
2. The solubility of sugar increases with temperature


----------



## pikerinoz

Just bottled this and my god the aroma was fantastic!!! 3 weeks until the first tasting - can't wait!


----------



## RobH

I am going to give this recipe a go - I wanted to make an amarillo golden ale for my next brew & this one looks like a great place to start.

However, as I am not near a LHBS I will be using the items already in my inventory and readily available at my local IGA 

As my local IGA has a special on the Tooheys Special Ale kit ($9.50 a tin) I am going to use that as the base malt (2 x 1.7kg tins).
I don't have Centennial hops, so I will use Cascade instead of those, but the Amarillo is definately going in. Also I am presently reculturing some US05 yeast that I harvested from a previous brew.

Instead of straight-up 500gm of Dex, I will use 500gm of Coopers Brewing sugar (which is part Dextose & part Maltodextrin) - and steep some Crystal grains (about 250g).

If I boil up the contents of both tins, what should I bring the boil volume to? and if my 15L stock pot aint big enough for that, should I ditch one tin and use 1kg of Coopers LDME (to add after the boil) instead?

Probably going to do this on the weekend as long as my yeast starter works out ok.


----------



## glaab

Hi Rob, for proper/ consistent/ predictable hops utilisation you want a boil SG of about 1045. You could use 1040 or 1050 I suppose as long as youre consistent so you can adjust bitterness in future. I use 450g of DME in 4litre water to get 1045. A 4L boil is easier to cool to pitching temp[ I use 2-3kg ice]. Thers is no need to boil the cans of goo, just chuck them in the fermenter. I don't know the bitterness of those cans but guess one can would give you around 25IBU so 2 will give you 50, maybe too bitter. Maybe use 1 tin [straight into the fermenter] and aim for an extra 10 ish IBU from your hops adds. Please post how it turns out back here. Cheers


----------



## Neill

sorry rob but it just won't taste right. Your cans of goo will give heaps of bitterness, and the hop boil will add even more. Not to mention the flavour from the isohops in the goo. Your best bet is to order some stuff online or do a big buy next time you're at the shop. You could try 1 tin of goo, and 1.5kg of dme, with some 500g dex, then shorten the hop boil to ditch some of the bitterness. It won't really resemble to original recipe but it should taste okay.


----------



## Flash_DG

Bottled this yesterday and the house has this wonderful aroma just can't help but walk about sniffing the air :icon_drool2: 

I did the first lot as per Neill's recipe but am now looking to do an AG version can any one suggest a good grain bill?

In Beersmith I basically took out the extract and replaced it with 4kg Pale Malt which will give me 1.051 SG
Will this do?


----------



## bum

I'd mix it up with some spec grains. Nothing over the top, still keeping it pretty simple but just something to add a little depth of character. Say up to 10% with your favourite specs?


----------



## Flash_DG

Well have only used spec grains once so far in a porter so not a lot experience with all their flavours I guess this would be the perfect time to add just one and get to know the taste of that.
Added 250g of crystal.


----------



## manticle

Spec grains will give you certain characters. Each one is different so it's best to read about each and decide what you want. For example choc will give colour, some roastiness and a kind of choc/cocoa hint, biscuit malt will bring nuttiness and toastiness (actually technically not a spec malt but used in tiny amounts), black malt will bring roastiness, light and medium crystals will bring sweetness etc etc.

What do you want from it? This recipe seems designed to showcase the hops rather than the malt so if you do add spec grains I'd go for something basic (the crystal is probably a good choice). Otherwise biscuit does seem to suit nearly every brew I make (and goes beautifully with amarillo).

As for base malt - I'd say either ale malt or pilsner malt or a mixture. Any pale base malt would probably do but start with basic cheaper ones and build from there.


----------



## Flash_DG

Pale Malt was just what Beersmith has, I priced the Ale Malt from the sponsors ^up there.

But yeah just want a nice pale ale base nothing too complex just really want to do an AG version for myself, the one I just bottled was for my Brother in Law who bank rolled it.


----------



## beerbog

roverfj1200; made up to 23 litres (standard batch volume) and for the boil i just used 6L with about 1/3 of one of the LME tins added (600g in 6L is about right for gravity to utilise the hops properly)
[/quote]

Neill, quick question on the boil method - are you only boiling 600g in 6 litres of water, adding the hops at the required times then adding the rest of the LME straight into the fermenter?

If so, is this a rule of thumb for extract brewing (the ratio of LME to water for the boil)?

60min boil?

Thanks.


----------



## Neill

yep that's exactly what i do. If your pot is big enough, just finish the hop boil, then throw in all your fermentables and bring it back to the boil for 1 min to sanitise it all then throw into the fermenter, top up with cold and pitch at the desired temp. Dead easy! And thousands of times better than using pre-hopped goo!


----------



## jurule

Hi,

Is there any problem using dry malt extract for this recipe rather than liquid. Dry is cheaper thats all 
Im also gonna replace the Centennial with Galaxy as i cant get it.
Cheers!


----------



## [email protected]

G'day lads,
I'm gonna give this one a go later today. Quick question: After the boil do i just lob the whole lot into the fermenter or strain it in? I did a similar brew a while back and didn't strain it, and it turned out with a LOT of sediment in the bottle. And in particularly heavy sedimenty bottles there was quite a bitter taste?!?! 
Cheers for any help,
Rob


----------



## bum

jurule said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is there any problem using dry malt extract for this recipe rather than liquid. Dry is cheaper thats all
> Im also gonna replace the Centennial with Galaxy as i cant get it.
> Cheers!



No problem at all with the dry. Only thing is you can't do a straight swap. You need less dry malt extract than you do liquid malt extract - about 80% in rough figures I think. Best thing to do is run the numbers through Beersmith or similar to make sure your gravity is what you're hoping for.


----------



## jurule

so how about this:
2kg ldme
200g crystal malt steeped
250g dextrose
250g maltodextrin
20g galaxy
40g amarillo
40g amarillo

Hops additions as per recipe, danstar yeast.

Thoughts please?


----------



## kelbygreen

Ok I am going to try to put this down tomorrow. I want to make a 25lt batch as I wouldnt mind a few more bottles out of one brew. Plus this looking like a sure thing cant have enough :lol: I found my last 23lt batch I only got 27 bottles after hydro samples and racking so figure 25lts get me closer to 30 bottles.

I am thinking of using:
2.5kg LDME 
500g dextrose
17g centenial 11AA 
2 x 35g amarillo 8.2AA
us-05 yeast 

calculated at 1.048 OG, 1.012 FG, 31.4 IBU, 7.35 EBC

this sound about right??? if not what changes and where??? I dont want a massive IBU as still trying to work out what I like so thought I would aim for a lower end of the scale


----------



## Neill

that's pretty much exactly the same hop schedule, 3g off here and there isn't going to make a lick of difference. I mainly used 20g, 40g, 40g so that i could buy a 40g pack of centennial, and 2x80g packs of amarillo and have it come out even. should be fine mate.


----------



## Parrothead

Neill said:


> that's pretty much exactly the same hop schedule, 3g off here and there isn't going to make a lick of difference. I mainly used 20g, 40g, 40g so that i could buy a 40g pack of centennial, and 2x80g packs of amarillo and have it come out even. should be fine mate.




I think I've found my next brew! I've been interested in Amarillo myself - this like a great recipe to try them out. I just ran it through the BeerTools.com Recipe Calculator, adding .25oz [7 grams] of 40L Cyrstal, and it comes out as an American Pale Ale. I really don't care what it is, it sounds great! I'm hoping to brew this within the next couple of weeks. B)


----------



## Pennywise

Parrothead said:


> adding .25oz [7 grams] of 40L Cyrstal




:huh: 7g wont even be noticable. Either way 200 or 207 it'll turn out the same


----------



## Parrothead

Homebrewer79 said:


> :huh: 7g wont even be noticable. Either way 200 or 207 it'll turn out the same




Maybe 14g?


----------



## whitegoose

Parrothead said:


> Maybe 14g?



Try 100g - that's the least I've ever used of specialty grain


----------



## Parrothead

whitegoose said:


> Try 100g - that's the least I've ever used of specialty grain




Oh good God, I just realized my mistake. We're metrically challenged here in the US!  I'm thinking hops - 7grams = .25oz, and so on. Yes, I was thinking about .25 of a pound of cyrstal, which would be about 113 grams. Sorry 'bout that.


----------



## Neill

i reckon just make it without the honey to the original specs. the honey will add too much flavour where it isn't wanted. this beer is all about the hops!


----------



## ivanhoe

I have a quick question in regards to hops, not specifically about this recipe although it was similar. I did an extract using 40g of Amarillo at 20min and 20g at 10min and i just think it tastes too "fruity" (well kind of hoppy but definately fruity in some ways, almost tastes like passionfruit!) 

In comparison to this recipe the only difference is that it doesn't have the Chinook so i was wondering if that is the main problem in that there is not enough bitterness to offset this fruity flavour?

OR is it probably more likely that i just don't like hops that much?  I've done other brews with lower amounts of hops which had a more subtle flavour which i enjoyed, however i have seen a lot of recipes on this site with 60+ grams of hops so i thought i would give one a go. At this stage (only 4 weeks old) the hoppy flavour is just too strong imo.


----------



## jurule

just racked my version of this recipe using galaxy for the centennial and steeped 300g crystal with a little dextrose and maltodextrin. Smells unbelievable, so fruity. Had a taste and had a nice subtle bitterness with a fruity clean finish with no twang. Gonna leave for another week at 19degrees then bottle. Can't wait for this one!


----------



## Neill

> I have a quick question in regards to hops, not specifically about this recipe although it was similar. I did an extract using 40g of Amarillo at 20min and 20g at 10min and i just think it tastes too "fruity" (well kind of hoppy but definately fruity in some ways, almost tastes like passionfruit!)
> 
> In comparison to this recipe the only difference is that it doesn't have the Chinook so i was wondering if that is the main problem in that there is not enough bitterness to offset this fruity flavour?
> 
> OR is it probably more likely that i just don't like hops that much?  I've done other brews with lower amounts of hops which had a more subtle flavour which i enjoyed, however i have seen a lot of recipes on this site with 60+ grams of hops so i thought i would give one a go. At this stage (only 4 weeks old) the hoppy flavour is just too strong imo.






that's the great thing about home brewing - you can make beers that YOU like! if it's too hoppy, then you've learnt something, and next time you can drop back on the late hops to give a more subtle flavour and create something that YOU enjoy. a lot of the blokes on here (myself included) like big, heavily late hopped beers, and this is certainly one of them!


----------



## Pennywise

ivanhoe said:


> I have a quick question in regards to hops, not specifically about this recipe although it was similar. I did an extract using 40g of Amarillo at 20min and 20g at 10min and i just think it tastes too "fruity" (well kind of hoppy but definately fruity in some ways, almost tastes like passionfruit!)
> 
> In comparison to this recipe the only difference is that it doesn't have the Chinook so i was wondering if that is the main problem in that there is not enough bitterness to offset this fruity flavour?
> 
> OR is it probably more likely that i just don't like hops that much?  I've done other brews with lower amounts of hops which had a more subtle flavour which i enjoyed, however i have seen a lot of recipes on this site with 60+ grams of hops so i thought i would give one a go. At this stage (only 4 weeks old) the hoppy flavour is just too strong imo.



This is one of the things I love about Amarillo, I get passionfruit from it as well and use it quite alot. 40g at 20 mins would (for me anyway) be on the heavier side for just your standard pale ale. If it's too much for you drop it back to 20g and use a small amount at 60 mins to get the bitterness back in check


----------



## [email protected]

G'day lads, i'm looking to bottle this delicious drop soon and was wondering about bulk priming. I have 500g of dex at hand. If its suitable how much would i need to use for a 24L batch. Its slightly higher as i had to add ice to cool the wort down to a 19 deg pitching temp. Any advice will be rewarded with many thanks as usual!
Cheers,
Rob


----------



## Pete2501

TheRealBootlegBrewery said:


> G'day lads, i'm looking to bottle this delicious drop soon and was wondering about bulk priming. I have 500g of dex at hand. If its suitable how much would i need to use for a 24L batch. Its slightly higher as i had to add ice to cool the wort down to a 19 deg pitching temp. Any advice will be rewarded with many thanks as usual!
> Cheers,
> Rob



Hey BLB, 

Have you checked out the wikis? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...;showarticle=68

I'm sure someone will have some on hand experience but I hope this bit of info helps in your quest. :beerbang:


----------



## [email protected]

Cheers Pete! Bit of a tit for not seeing that myself but anyway, thanks for the help. As my second fermenter is currently holding my erdinger clone 'Humdinger', i couldn't rack it but hopefully it'll turn out nicely. Give us a shout if you're ever down near Margies mate!

Rob.


----------



## Calais_5sp

I recently made this up as per first post with the only difference being 300g dex cause its all i had left at the time.
Sipping on one as we speak and i must say its a very nice drop and has only been bottle conditioned for 2 weeks.
Not quite as hoppy as i expected with the 80g amarillo but still very well balanced.
Prob my favourite brew made so far.
Will definently be putting another one down on the weekend but prob add 300g caramalt and see how it goes.
Cheers Neill for the new favourite at my bar.


----------



## Neill

no dramas mate! glad you liked it. i love stumbling across random recipes that turn out well, makes the whole brewing thing a lot more interesting.


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## levin_ae92

Hi all, i'm planning to make one of these, but with a slight variation of using Simcoe and Amarillo for something slightly different. Also planning slightly different hopping shedule too

10g Simcoe 20g Amarillo @ 30
10g Simcoe 20g Amarillo @ 10
10g Simcoe 20g Amarillo @ 0

Reckon that souns ok? Im salivating just thinking about it, will also be my first full extract brew!!


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## glaab

luv the Simcoe but it's very overpowering.. Just 1/2g per litre will change the beer completely. The 10g at 0min alone would be a reasonable dose for a nice hit of grapefruit/ sherbet without completely taking over. Of course thats just my opinion, you'll need to work out what suits you. I'm at the point where I don't wanna make anything but Amarillo/ Simcoe APA, it's the best beer I make by a mile. Heres the hops schedule for my last batch out of interest. Cheers,
===============================================
45 litres
-
45.00 gm Magnum [12.50 %] (75 min) (First Wort HopHops 30.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.70 %] (15 min) Hops 5.1 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.70 %] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU 
20.00 gm Simcoe [13.00 %] (0 min) Hops - 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.70 %] (0 min) Hops -


----------



## levin_ae92

so maybe something more like this?

10g Simcoe 20g Amarillo @ 30
20g Amarillo @ 10
10g Simcoe 20g Amarillo @ 0


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## levin_ae92

Well I brewed this using Neills base recipe, + 125g of Bairds light crystal and the first hop schedule I posted, and just had a sample out of the fermenter and it tastes superb!! I could drink pints of the stuff straight from the fermenter!! Its exactly what I was after, I think Neill's base recipe is absolutely spot on!


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## glaab

just made this extract. I've made both Niels and MrMaltys Cent/ Amarillo and liked both but I'm after some more IBUs. 
:icon_offtopic: A bit off topic but does anyone know how to add the predicted %ABV
and the IBU/ SG ratio to this report? I can add "my report" to the list but when I hit edit the "add report" dialogue box pops up again? Cheers

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: apa2__2/3-20 rule
Brewer: Chris
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 3.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 8.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 

3.00 kg Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 84.51 % 
0.30 kg Caraamber (Weyermann) (36.0 SRM) Grain 8.45 % 
10.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (75 min) Hops 12.9 IBU 
15.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (15 min) Hops 9.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.70 %] (15 min) Hops 8.2 IBU
15.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (5 min) Hops 3.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.70 %] (5 min) Hops 3.3 IBU
15.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hops-Steep - 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.70 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hops-Steep - 
0.25 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7.04 %
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Safale American Ale (Fermentis #US-05) Yeast-Ale


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## robv

Hi Neill
Just put one of these down today as per your original recipe, already smelling great. 
Would you mind posting your hallertau bomb recipe as well.

Cheers
Rob


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## Neill

glad to see you guys are trying this one out!

rob i'll add the hallertau bomb to the recipe DB now, it's my 2nd favourite beer that i've made so far, right after this one :beer:

edit: click this link;

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry599621


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## Marchaos

Hi Neill,

Just made this brew up as your recipe + 200g steeped crystal malt. Is the OG of 1058 stated correct? Mine only came out at 1048 OG.


----------



## kelbygreen

marchaos that sounds reasonable. Mine came out at 1055 but I wanted a strong beer fermented to 1014. you should still get around 4.5+% with what you got 

my recipe was 

2.6kg LDME 
.5 kg dextrose 
and the same hop schedule 
US-05 yeast


----------



## Marchaos

If it comes out between 4.5 - 5.0% i`ll be happy. Just found it strange that i did the recipe exactly but my og was 10 points lower. 

3.0 kg Coopers llme
500g Dextrose
Same Hop Schedule
Same yeast 
23l

Only diff was the added 200g steeped Crystal malt


----------



## Hatchy

This is high enough on my things to brew list that I've bought the ingredients waiting for an empty fermenter. LHBS didn't have any centennial so I'm subbing in some galaxy that I had in the freezer & I'm going to dry hop another 40g of amarillo.


----------



## kelbygreen

my next brew I wanna try galaxy well the next one is a bitsa to get rid of some hops and prob some galaxy to bring the IBU up then plan a full galaxy just to see what its got  sounds like a nice hop. If its a good beer hatchy add to recipe data base and post in kits/extract section


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## 4bc

Hi All

Wonderful thread this one, and im going to hopefully put this one down this weekend.Thanks for getting this discussion going Neill! Just wanted to know any thoughts on the (lack of) hops i currently have available. I have everything else the recipe requires, including the Crystal Grain.

I have purchased 2 x Amarillo "Brewcraft" finishing hops @ 15gms a bag, just realised that the original recipe asks for 2x 40gms. Can i use what i have and boil for longer to compensate or hold off and get more hops?

Also my local HBS doesnt have Centennial hops, but i have 15gms bag or Saaz (3.4%) or 50g of Fuggles, but dont know if either of them will suit/compliment the Amarillo.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## jbowers

4bc said:


> Hi All
> 
> Wonderful thread this one, and im going to hopefully put this one down this weekend.Thanks for getting this discussion going Neill! Just wanted to know any thoughts on the (lack of) hops i currently have available. I have everything else the recipe requires, including the Crystal Grain.
> 
> I have purchased 2 x Amarillo "Brewcraft" finishing hops @ 15gms a bag, just realised that the original recipe asks for 2x 40gms. Can i use what i have and boil for longer to compensate or hold off and get more hops?
> 
> Also my local HBS doesnt have Centennial hops, but i have 15gms bag or Saaz (3.4%) or 50g of Fuggles, but dont know if either of them will suit/compliment the Amarillo.
> 
> What are your thoughts?



Take a look at craftbrewer.com.au for next time you are buying hops. Even with shipping, it will be much cheaper than buying in such small quantities from brewcraft who tend to overcharge pretty badly. saaz and fuggles are nothing like centennial and both will change the hop profile drastically.


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## Neill

+1

you really need fresh hop pellets for this one, in the amounts specified, results cannot be guaranteed! I would purchase some fresh hops and do it next weekend instead :beer:


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## [email protected]

Damn, i have finally put all the 'correct' ingredients together for this but the last post has thrown me slightly. i have 100g of amarillo pellets but they are about three weeks old at this stage. Their saving grace might be that they've been kept in the fridge the whole time as when i bought them out of LHBS they were refridgerated. Should these be ok?
Cheers,
Rob


----------



## bum

They'll be fine, bloke. Freezer is a better place for them but your fridge is a much better place than in a teabag on a shelf in a LHBS (which is what I suspect Neill is advising against). Assuming your supplier has good stock there is no way 3 weeks would be considered old.


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## jbowers

TheRealBootlegBrewery said:


> Damn, i have finally put all the 'correct' ingredients together for this but the last post has thrown me slightly. i have 100g of amarillo pellets but they are about three weeks old at this stage. Their saving grace might be that they've been kept in the fridge the whole time as when i bought them out of LHBS they were refridgerated. Should these be ok?
> Cheers,
> Rob



Hahaha, that's fine. They are probably several months old. As long as they are refrigerated then all will be well. You are never going to get hops fresher than 3 weeks old unless you are picking em yourself.

Edit: bum beat me to it.


----------



## [email protected]

jbowers said:


> Edit: bum beat me to it.




Hehe, quick off the draw that bum! 
Cheery boys,
Rob


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## Neill

i've kept hops in the fridge for over 6 months without noticeable loss of flavour! go for it mate :beer:


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## robv

Hi Neill
I put this on tap on Saturday(done to your original recipe), of the 4 kegs on tap it was by far the most popular and has nearly all gone. Putting another one down this week, and will also be putting your hallertau bomb down.

Cheers
Rob


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## kelbygreen

mines been 8 days in bottle. might crack one tomorrow to see how it is coming along but i could of drunk it straight from the fermenter on bottling day. I just have to hold back till its really good  going to be hard


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## Florian

Am very keen to try this one out myself, am about to order the hops from craftbrewer. 

But my only issue is: where do I get Coopers LME from in Brisbane? I know I can order online, but the shipping is outrages for two cans. Have checked my local HBS and supermarkets, and googled for ages. Surely it must be available in shops that I haven't considered yet?


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## bum

Dude, use any LME. Or convert it to dry. I'd be really surprise if _anyone_ could split the difference.

Hell, get crazy and add some spec grains! You'll be making interesting beer in no time!


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## Florian

bum said:


> Dude, use any LME. Or convert it to dry. I'd be really surprise if anyone could split the difference.
> 
> Hell, get crazy and add some spec grains! You'll be making interesting beer in no time!



Cool, will just stick to dry malt extract then, that's the easiest to get hold of. Just thought I"ll try to get coopers LME to stick 100% to Neill's recommendation. But if you say there won't be any difference than I'll take your word.
With the grains, do I just replace some of the malt with them (sorry, newbie...) ?

Thanks


----------



## bum

I don't mean to be patronising but I should stress the word 'convert' from my earlier post just in case. You might already know that you can't just swap liquid amounts for dry amounts. If I remember correctly liquid has 80% of the malt content of dry extract. If you use Beersmith or similar it should be pretty easy for you to work out how much you need. Close enough anyway.

If you do use some spec grain I wouldn't change the malt - it isn't going to make a significant difference in terms of alcohol (unless of course you have a specific reason to be keeping a close eye on that then be sure to run the numbers properly or ask someone here). You wouldn't really be using enough to offset the malt already there - just enough to put some complexity under everything. Depending on how much you do use you might need to think about upping the bittering addition ever so slightly but I think that maybe the dex in the recipe might get you through on that front. I'd be thinking about adding some regardless if I were to make this. But I dunno, everyone seems to like this one a lot so maybe it isn't required. Two cents and all that.


----------



## Neill

Good stuff Rob, it's a winner for sure! i can't believe this random recipe i made up has turned out so well, awesome result 


Oh also; 

I can definately tell the difference between a beer made with LME and a beer made with DME. maybe it's just me, but i found the DME to produce a less robust body in the beer and a much thinner mouthfeel. Hence i always fork out a little more for LME these days :beer:


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## bum

You can tell that with the same recipe made to the same grav? Impressive. I withdraw the statement above.


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## Florian

Thanks for your advice, Bum and Neill. I was aware that I would have to convert the proportions when using DME, but am sure that others will be glad to read this. Thanks also for the spec grain suggestion, will not try it for this brew, but have it already on the list for a pilsener which I'll do after that.

Went to my HBS to get LME, and wanted to grab 'morgans master blend lager malt' (as it said 'pale'), but somehow ended up with the 'master blend beer enhancer' in my basket. Would this be comparable to the suggested coopers LME pale or is it too far off the scale? This is my first extract so please excuse my ignorance.

Also, I assume you are not using hop bags when adding the hops, but rather just chuck straight into the boil? Do you need to use a strainer when transferring to the fermenter or could you just transfer with all the bits and pieces?


----------



## 4bc

Ok, my patience has succeeded and i ordered some more amarillo and centenial from Craftbrewer!

I also got some crystal grain, but im a bit confused as to how to put all of this together.

Correct me if i am wrong, from my reading here i boil the crystal first (anyone suggest a time - 30min perhaps), then add that water to another pot. Rinse crystal and add that water to pot.

Then using the 6L of "crystal water" add the 600g of LME and first stage of hops. Then as time goes on add the remainder of the hops schedule and then strain into fermentor and top up to 23L.

Hope ive got my head around this, thanks for you help guys, just want to make sure i get it right and appreciate the recipe properly!!


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## Pennywise

No you *steep* the grain in water at about 65-70 degrees then rinse the grain with more water at same or a bit higher temp, then boil the resulting licquor. Don't boil the actual grain itself. A grain bag makes this job alot easier, but you can just use a kitchen sieve if you don't have a grain bag.


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## Neill

florian; yep straight into the boil, no bags. i use a conventional strainer to keep most of the hop gunk out of the fermenter as i find it clogs the taps, but you don't have to.

4bc; absolutely not! measure 200-300g of crystal grains, then crack them (don't whizz them in a blender or anything, you just need to crack the grains open to release the goodness. I use small amounts (100g at a time or so) in a mortar and pestle, takes 5 min to do. otherwise a flat bench and a chopping board will do it, just crush the grains between the two surfaces. bear in mind they may already be cracked by the supplier, i'm not sure but it's easy to see. then boil 5L of water, let it cool with the lid off for 5 min then throw the cracked grains into a muslin bag (available from LHBS) or a PRE-BOILED stocking. put the bag in the 60-70 degree water and move it around, you will see the brown stuff leaching out of the grains. let them sit with the lid on the pot (do NOT boil) for 20-30 mins. remove bag, throw away used grains, re-use bag later for next batch.

now you have 5L of flavoursome liquid. bring it to the boil, add 500g of LME or DME and throw the hop additions in as described. you do NOT boil the grains themselves, but you are free to boil the liquid that they produce.

hope that helps.


----------



## 4bc

Thanks Homebrewer79 & Neill,

I have lots of new info floating around my head, probably didn't word it correctly, was never going to boil the grains, i meant boiled water (had read 70-80deg is optimum temp) but i do thank you for clearly explaining the correct procedure, im sure it will help others just as well as it has helped me. I really appreciate your assistance! Im good to go and look forward to drinking this, im more excited than Big Kev!!


----------



## Florian

yep, the grain prep instructions have definitely helped me, thanks. What about the morgans master blend beer enhancer, will that be alright?

thanks,
Florian


----------



## bum

Does the label tell you what is in it?


----------



## Florian

From the label:
Beer enhancer extra pale malt extract. For use where you desire the lightest coloured beer without affecting the original flavour. Made from a special range of malt extracts. Made from 100% two row malted barley and specifically kettled for excess protein removal, resulting in brighter and clearer beer. From Australia


----------



## Neill

that will be perfect mate, sounds like it's just pale unhopped malt extract, same as the coopers stuff


----------



## Florian

cool, thanks Neill. Just ordered my hops and yeast and some TF chrystal malt grains to add to it. Can't wait...


----------



## Hatchy

I finally got around to emptying a fermenter so I could get this going today, I had to use galaxy as LHBS doesn't have centennial. Has anyone dry hopped this recipe? I've got 160g more amarillos that are desperate to get wet.


----------



## Neill

doesn't need dry hopping IMHO. it will just get too resiny - it's already borderline. but if you're a real hop nut then go for it?


----------



## Hatchy

I spoke to a mate yesterday who suggested having a taste out of the fermenter to see if it needs more hops. I reckon there's about an 80% chance I'll end up dry hopping, I just can't seem to get enough hoppy goodness these days.


----------



## Siborg

Hey Neil

Good read. I'm gonna have to go and try this. When you say coopers LME (pale), do you mean the coopers international Australian pale ale?

Could I go 1 can of that with a can of coopers premium wheat, or just stick with the 2 pale kits? I'll probably steep 400g or so of carapils as well for a 23L batch.

It'll be good to try a brew with something other than US05!


----------



## Marchaos

Siborg,

You use the unhopped light liquid malt extract cans for this recipe.

Cheers.


----------



## Adam Howard

I'm quite keen on making an APA as my next brew.

I used the Kit and Extract Designer to plug in a similar recipe to yours Neill but I will use one tin each of amber and light LME and also steep some Carared to bump up the EBC. I also have 500g Dex and 200g of Maltodex in the recipe and a slightly reduced hop profile.

Have to wait till I have the new homebrew shed operational until I can put it down though unfortunately as my current brewing room is our old bathroom and upcoming renovations are going to involve 'changing' that area :angry:


----------



## Hatchy

You can't find room for a fermenter? You really need those renovations done.


----------



## [email protected]

Howaya lads, i have this one fermenting away @ 18deg in the fridge and the aroma when you open the fridge door is only bleedin amazing. just one last question though. I have followed this one EXACTLY so far, now i want to bulk prime it. My last brew was also bulk primed but turned out just slightly under carbed. This is a 23L batch. Which sugar and how much does anyone who's already done this recommend?
Nice one,
Rob


Ps: Will be racking and cc'ing for a few days first, but will need to pick up supplies soon.


----------



## bum

Same sugar as whatever you used last time just more of it.

What'd you do last time, in what volume and how much more carbed would you like it?


----------



## Siborg

Hey
I did my first bulk prime last week. I was pointed to this website:
Bulk Priming Calculator
Aim for 2.5-2.9 volumes, depending on style and taste preference. Use corn sugar/dextrose/glucose, its 100% fermentable and doesn't leave any residual sugars behind.


----------



## [email protected]

bum said:


> Same sugar as whatever you used last time just more of it.
> 
> What'd you do last time, in what volume and how much more carbed would you like it?




Just disolved about 150g of dex in about 300ml of hot water. poured it into fermenter and then botled about 30 or 40 minutes later. for some reason it just hasnt carbed up to where i'd like it to be. Brew was a Hoegaarden clone with coopers wheat can, wheat malt extract, 23 litres fermented at 20 -22. I racked it too, could that have left too little yeast to do the job? Anyway, thats all the info i can think of.


----------



## Bomber1975

Hey Guys I am back from my 4 weeks away and decided to put down on of Neils beers. One drama though that I had today I thought that my saucepan would hold 6 litres of water. It only held 4 litres. I followed everything else from the recipe but only used four litres for my boil. Will this effect anything? Ohh I tell a lie I used 50gms of Amarillo on both boil times as I had a 100 gm bag and wasn't sure how long it would keep in the fridge. Especially with such a small amount. So what I am saying is have I wrecked this tried and true recipe???


----------



## bum

When you say "water" (he asks, not sure he wants to hear the answer) do you mean water or wort? What I mean is did you boil the hops in straight water or 1040-ish wort?

If straight water your bitterness will be significantly higher than the original recipe. Call it an IPA if it is and it won't be ruined - just not what you expected (or what is considered ideal).


----------



## kelbygreen

yeah as bum said if you done 4lt boil you should of used about 475g of LME or 395 of DME. The extra hops would up the IBU its best to use something to calculate them without knowing the AA% of the hops and the amount you used its hard to know.

I done this again but used the base recipe and some left over hops. 

Ingredient is:

2.5kg LDME 
.5 dextrose 
15g centennial 7.2% @ 30min
6g cascade 7.8% @ 30min
27g amarillo 8.3% @ 20min
27g amarillo 8.3% @10min

5lt boil with 500g of LDME 

with 23lt batch turned out 1.052 OG and almost 31%IBU


----------



## Bomber1975

bum said:


> When you say "water" (he asks, not sure he wants to hear the answer) do you mean water or wort? What I mean is did you boil the hops in straight water or 1040-ish wort?
> 
> If straight water your bitterness will be significantly higher than the original recipe. Call it an IPA if it is and it won't be ruined - just not what you expected (or what is considered ideal).



Sorry yeah I added the LME into the boil as per the recipe ( although yet again I think I was a bit heavy handed  ) OG ended out being 1044

Sorry Neil I really shouldn't be posting this in your topic as I seem to have totally gone off the rails in my attempt to follow your recipe


----------



## Hatchy

I've boiled hops in water before I learnt that they should be boiled in wort & I made beer. I now boil my hops in wort but I'd still say that boiling some hops in water is better than using a can with no hop additions.


----------



## bum

Bomber, 1044 sounds fine to me. Certainly won't ruin your beer. I think some people report usually aiming for 1045 so I very much doubt you'll have any negative effects. Utilisation may be slightly lower but you've got larger additions so you'll still be in front.

As for sticking to Neill's recipe - you're a lot closer than many in this thread and he didn't seem too upset about them.

Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## toojays

I made a version of this on Good Friday as:

200g Caraamber + 100g Caraaroma steeped
3 kg LDME (400g in 5L boil)
20g Centential (9.7% AA) @ 30 min
40g Amarillo (8.6% AA) @ 20 min
40g Amarillo (8.6% AA) @ 10 min
15g Amarillo (8.6% AA) @ 0 min (figured I might as well chuck in the leftover hops)
Danstar Nottingham yeast.

OG 1052
Estimated FG from QBrew is 1013.

Just had a sample from the fermenter today, SG is 1022. It smells gorgeous, but tastes a bit more bitter than I would like. It tastes like an IPA right now.

Hopefully that mellows over time, without losing too much hop flavour. Although isn't the reality that it will taste more bitter once some of the remaining sweetness from the malt is converted into alcohol? And given time in the bottle, it'll lose some aroma, but keep the bitterness? If only it was the other way around :S


----------



## Neill

you might get too much bitterness if you do a larger hop boil than i have. because i only do a 4 or 5L boil, the hop utilisation is lower than if you did a 10 or 15L boil. basically if your boil volume is higher then you will get much more bitterness out of it - hence i recommend adjusting the hop schedule as needed with your boil size and aiming for 30-35IBU, otherwise as mentioned it can get too bitter. I did a second brew of this a few months back and it used a bigger boil of just 5L (original boil volume was 3L) and it was a bit too bitter for my liking. so keep that in mind!

edit: also your AA% may vary compared to my original one - your best bet is to plug the numbers into beersmith or whatever and aim for 30-15 IBU and adjust the hop schedule accordingly (within reason)


----------



## Hatchy

This turned out ok for me. It's still pretty young (10 days in bottles). I'll put a few away for a couple of months & I'm sure they'll be way better. If I did this brew again I'd dry hop some amarillo for some more aroma. Personal preferance obviously.


----------



## bullfrog

Hatchy said:


> This turned out ok for me. It's still pretty young (10 days in bottles). I'll put a few away for a couple of months & I'm sure they'll be way better. If I did this brew again I'd dry hop some amarillo for some more aroma. Personal preferance obviously.


Call me crazy, but I'm of the mind that a hoppy APA-style beer, much the same as a wheat, should be drunk pretty green. Most of my APAs are cracked at two weeks and completely gone by week 5 or 6.

EDIT: Clarity.


----------



## Hatchy

Call me crazy (or just wrong) but I thought that was more for dry hopped beers. I certainly went with that policy for my DSGA. "Quick, drink all the beer before it loses it's aroma!"

If this is meant to be drunk young then I'm happy to do that. I'll go put a couple of stubbies in the fridge now, just to be safe.


----------



## kelbygreen

I found it got alot better at around 4 weeks in the bottle. it was to bitter for me but I also found that I done no chill and both beers I done no chill was more bitter then ones I have done after with cooling it quickly, also there was less flavours on the no chill. might just be me or the change in brewing gear but thats what I found lol


----------



## Aus_Rider_22

I still fail to realise why people who don't do secondary (me) think a beer should be drank before 3 weeks? In my experience, which is still fairly limited, beers are hitting their prime 3-8 weeks in. I have read that wheat beers are best drunk green, but IMO if you are drinking them inside 3-4 weeks just for aroma then you should just increase your dry hopping amounts 3 or 4 fold. I wish I could drink my beer within a few weeks out of the fermenter but it just doesn't taste as good as a month or more aged beer! I am still a real amateur that has only been kegging for just over 2 months but after kegging and drinking a LCBA clone for weeks and then drinking a bottled beer that was 2 months old I could tell a fair difference. I know many disagree and will debate this but the longer the better!


----------



## Hatchy

I won't disagree that leaving it longer will make it better. The problem I have is I keep running out of beer. I'd love to have everything bottled for a minimum of a month before opening one. Unfortunately I really like beer & the ones I've brewed that I've really enjoyed I've struggled to have any last 3 weeks. I'm trying a "reduced consumption, increased production" policy. So far over 2 days I've bottled over 2 cartons & only drunk/given away 3 longnecks. I really would like to get to a point where over half of my bottles are full.


----------



## bum

More fermenters.


----------



## Hatchy

bum said:


> More fermenters.



60L in fermenting fridge. 2 x 30L in bath. I could use the bottling bucket as a fermenter but I like bulk priming. Another $15 bunnings fermenter could work. It's tough to keep them cold enough in summer in the bath & I reckon I'm a month or 2 away from struggling to keep them warm. The beer out of the fermenting fridge really is a lot nicer than the beer from the bath (amazingly).


----------



## bum

So with 120lt on the go at any one time you're saying you can't keep up with a 3 week cycle? Or am I reading this wrong? That's 5.7lt a day - surely there's enough wriggle room to get ahead and keep some aside for conditioning from each batch? What if you kept brewing but bought a few boxes in the middle?


----------



## jiesu

Wholly shit Hatchy, Slow down buddy or in two months time you wont be able wipe your own ass let alone brew drinking 5.7 litres a d ay.

On a more on topic note my centenillo is on its third day of fermentation and It smells sensational Looking forward to having a taste in a few weeks time


----------



## Hatchy

I reckon I should be able to start getting the supplies up now. The double batch in the fridge is the 1st double batch I've done. I also had an infected batch & brewed a cider for SWMBO. That put me a bit behind schedule. I don't know that I could drink 5.7L of beer a day every day.


----------



## Florian

I finally put this one down last night. Steeped 300g of chrystal, had a 3ish l boil. The house smelled absolutely great, but still good that SWMBO was away, as I'm not sure if she would've liked it too. As I'm still on crutches I got my mum, who was over for a visit, to carry the fermenter downstairs into the garage for me. Found the best way to sanitise the fermenter, just dumped it up side down onto the baby bottle steam steriliser, fits perfectly. 

Did not find a suitable strainer, so all the hops went into the fermentor and are now swimming on top of the wort.

Once downstairs i filled it up with spring water. Unfortunately, the Bunnings fermentor hasn't got the little litre mark lines, so I am not sure if I have hit 23 l or am over or under. Added an estimated 17-19 litres of water, so should be fairly close, hopefully. I then realised that I have to get a new hydrometer too, as the one I have ends at 1040. My guessed OG is about 1048ish. 

Pitched Nottingham somewhere betwen 24 and 26 degrees, and then put the fermenter into the fridge and set my freshly wired ebay temp control to 18 degrees. This was at around 10 pm. This morning I discovered that I had wired it up incorrectly, and the wort was therefore still sitting at 24 degrees. 

Have now wired the temp control up properly, so the wort will slowly go down to 18. Hope the high temp at the beginning will not do any harm. The fridge smells great, can't wait to have a little first taste in about a week when I do a grav reading.

Florian


----------



## riverside

This is a top brew, im on my 3rd 60ltr batch and still lovin it !

Thanks for sharing this one Neil


----------



## Neill

good to see you guys are enjoying it. i made another one just last week and it's sitting in the garage pumping away - man that notto chews through it fast! brew it at 16-17 degrees if you can, but anywhere under 20 is fine. notto seems to scrub a little more hop out at the higher temperatures.


----------



## Dementedchook

Had a bottle the other day that is just over 5 months old. Fantastic stuff!


----------



## enuun

Neill said:


> About 6 weeks ago i made this:
> 
> 2 x 1.5kg Coopers LME tins (pale)
> 500g Dextrose
> 20g Centennial @ 30 min
> 40g Amarillo @ 20 min
> 40g Amarillo @ 10 min
> 
> Total 31 IBU
> 
> OG 1058
> 
> Pitch Nottingham (would probably work well with US-05 too) and keep the temps under 20 degrees.
> 
> FG 1013
> 
> I just tasted one of these and this is one of the most awesome beers i've ever made. It is unbelievably fruity - the Centennial addition takes it to another level from an all-amarillo beer, which i have also done before. It's like someone has squeezed a passionfruit into your beer and then topped it up with watermelon or something. I'm no good at describing flavours but this is a cracker of a combination of hops. I urge all extract/KnB brewers out there to give this a go! :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Neill



Hi guys,

I am new to all this brewing stuff and I have a Cooper's Lager with some extra mystery hops and DME as my first brew.
I was looking at the instructions Neil put up and I would like to know "Amarillo hops @ 20mins" meant the hops were boiled for 20mins? Thanks!

enuun


----------



## kiwisteveo

yeah thats correct so your just doing a 30 min boil so at the 20 min mark(10mins after you have put the centennial in) throw ya 40g of amarillo and then 10 mins later throw the other 40g in and 10 mins later your done.don't use your coopers lager tin for the boil though,use the DME and then put the tin in at the end


----------



## enuun

Lovely! Thanks kiwistevo.

enuun


----------



## Hatchy

I'm going to make an Aussie version of this. I've got POR, galaxy & nelson sauvin. I was thinking the POR for bittering & the galaxy for the later additions unless anyones got a better idea.


----------



## Neill

this is as aussie as it gets hatchy. i invented it, and i'm aussie, so yeah that's about it.


----------



## Hatchy

I meant a version using Aussie hops.


----------



## Hatchy

Hatchy said:


> I'm going to make an Aussie version of this. I've got POR, galaxy & nelson sauvin. I was thinking the POR for bittering & the galaxy for the later additions unless anyones got a better idea.



Stupid mistake. I was thinking NS are Australian because I've got flowers but they're from NZ. I'll do the Aussie version with POR & galaxy. Then on Sunday I'll do an ANZAC version with the POR & NS. I figure ANZAC day is a good day to make an ANZAC brew.

Sorry about the pointless post, for some reason I couldn't edit my previous post. Stupid iphone.


----------



## Neill

well it won't really be a "version" of this recipe will it - using two totally different hops it will taste completely different. you can use the "base" recipe of fermentables for any pale ale and it will come out nice, but changing the hops will obviously create a totally different beer.

create a recipe and if it's good, give it a name and post it up here so i can make it! that's what this site is for! :beer:


----------



## Hatchy

Neill said:


> well it won't really be a "version" of this recipe will it - using two totally different hops it will taste completely different. you can use the "base" recipe of fermentables for any pale ale and it will come out nice, but changing the hops will obviously create a totally different beer.
> 
> create a recipe and if it's good, give it a name and post it up here so i can make it! that's what this site is for! :beer:



Valid point. The batch of this that I've already made didn't have centenial as LHBS didn't have any at the time. I'm not sure if it was in this thread or somewhere else that someone said they mainly use the same malt & change the hops to get an idea of how different hops go together. I reckon yr right about the 2 cans of coopers LME & whatever else you feel like throwing in. I don't see how it could go wrong.


----------



## Neill

that would probably have been me. i use the base of 3kg of LME and 500g of dex to make all my pales now, i just change the hops and the spec grains. they all come out nice and drinkable but with vastly different flavour profiles. this one and the hallertau bomb are the two that i've liked the most - the rest have been good but not special.


----------



## Hatchy

I only just realised I used 2 of those cans in my attempt at an Epic Arageddon IPA. I also used 1.2kg LDME & 600g Caramalt as well as an absolute shedload of hops. I made a dark ale with 2 cans & some spec grains as well. These Coopers cans are pretty versatile.


----------



## 4bc

Well, i thought i would add my feedback and commend Neill for these great recipes. 

Centenarillo Ale (with crystal steeped) is fantastic!! 
Hallertau Bomb is also a winner!!

If you havent tried these out yet, find an emtpy fermenter pronto!! Cannot recommend highly enough! Seems Neill and I have similar taste!!

Neill, did you end up getting a toucan "LC Bright Ale" clone that you were happy with, i recall reading you were trying out some hops schedules. Also, have you got a good IPA toucan recipe floating around? I say if you like it, i will too!!!


----------



## Neill

yep: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...=40024&st=0 

have a read of that thread, i ended up nearly doubling the suggested hop additions and it came out pretty close

glad you liked the other two - very happy with both of them!

I don't make IPA's, not yet anyway. still trying out various hops for my pales


----------



## guerd87

Im saving this recipe down for the day I move over to Extract, Im only on my 2nd brew right now which is a base beer really.

Where is the best place to buy hops from in Melbourne or is it best to just order online? Any favorites?

I have never done this method and will do some more research, but from what I can gather:

- Bring 6l of water to boil
- Add 600g of the LME to boil
- Add 20g Centennial and start the timer
- Add 40g Amarillo with 20mins left
- Add 40g Amarillo with 10mins left
- Add mixture to fermenter along with rest of LME + Dextrose and fill to 23l
- Pitch Yeast
- Wait and bottle like usuall

When you guys say boil, you dont really mean 100c boiling though? I read somewhere about the boil that you only want around 70c? Or is this for more AG with a mash?

Other questions are should you let the mixture cool to room temp before adding to fermentor and other ingredients? or just try to adjust the hot out with cold water?

Ive written it down and would like to try it, Im really interested in getting into some kits + hops and even full extract like these

John


----------



## theredone

guerd87 said:


> Im saving this recipe down for the day I move over to Extract, Im only on my 2nd brew right now which is a base beer really.
> 
> Where is the best place to buy hops from in Melbourne or is it best to just order online? Any favorites?
> 
> I have never done this method and will do some more research, but from what I can gather:
> 
> - Bring 6l of water to boil
> - Add 600g of the LME to boil
> - Add 20g Centennial and start the timer
> - Add 40g Amarillo with 20mins left
> - Add 40g Amarillo with 10mins left
> - Add mixture to fermenter along with rest of LME + Dextrose and fill to 23l
> - Pitch Yeast
> - Wait and bottle like usuall
> 
> When you guys say boil, you dont really mean 100c boiling though? I read somewhere about the boil that you only want around 70c? Or is this for more AG with a mash?
> 
> Other questions are should you let the mixture cool to room temp before adding to fermentor and other ingredients? or just try to adjust the hot out with cold water?
> 
> Ive written it down and would like to try it, Im really interested in getting into some kits + hops and even full extract like these
> 
> John



im no expert but im sure they mean rolling boil. its what i do for my hop additions, and for any specific grain i use i steep at 70ish


----------



## Neill

guerd87 said:


> - Bring 6l of water to boil
> - Add 600g of the LME to boil
> - Add 20g Centennial and start the timer
> - Add 40g Amarillo with 20mins left
> - Add 40g Amarillo with 10mins left
> - Add mixture to fermenter along with rest of LME + Dextrose and fill to 23l
> - Pitch Yeast
> - Wait and bottle like usuall



this. although i use a 4L boil, so you might end up a bit more bitter with a larger boil. 

add everything in at the end of the boil for 30 seconds, it'll sterilise all your fermentables. tip it all into the fermenter through a sieve to get the majority of the hop particles out if you like.

it's a rolling boil, so yes 100 degrees.


----------



## Hatchy

I didn't think the volume of the boil made a difference. I thought it was the sg which would give more/less hop utilisation.


----------



## bullfrog

Hatchy said:


> I didn't think the volume of the boil made a difference. I thought it was the sg which would give more/less hop utilisation.



There's a school of thought that anything under a 10L boil will have an affect on the hop utilisation. That's why one should use the Hop Utilisation Factor in Ianh's spreadsheet (if they use that) for anything under a 10L boil, but isn't required if 10L or greater.


----------



## Hatchy

Oh. I only have a 10L pot at the moment. It may not be ideal but it does make beer.


----------



## bullfrog

Hatchy said:


> Oh. I only have a 10L pot at the moment. It may not be ideal but it does make beer.


Won't hurt the beer at all, will just be slightly different, is all. Neill said that he only does 4L boils, and he seems to really like the brews that he's pumping out, so you'll still make very drinkable beer.


----------



## Neill

yeah basically if you do the exact same hop boil in a 10L pot versus a 3L pot, you will get more bitterness extracted in the larger volume boil. quite a lot more actually, so the beer might be HEAPS more bitter than a smaller boil would produce. plug the numbers into ianh's spreadsheet and tick "HCF on" if you're doing a small boil. Ideally with this recipe you're looking for 30-35 IBU so adjust the boil times shorter if it's a bigger boil.


----------



## enoch1973

Hi there... Just been looking at this thread. I've been doing 4l boils for my recent extract brews. 
I'm just curious though about the HCF. I had previouly paid no mind to it and left it at OFF.
When I change it to ON in Ian's spreadsheet it drops the IBU by 10 points in some cases.
To get the IBU up to what I'd like... around say 30, the sheet suggests it's wants a truck load more hops? Does that sound right? 
You don't want to over bitter now do you... I mean in the case of a medium alpha hop say 7-8% you'd be putting in around 15 - 20 more grams...
I'm a bit hesitant to do that. What do you guys reckon? Anyone else do small volume boils all the time?
Pete


----------



## theredone

still dont know what im doing wrong in ianh's spreadsheet. i put in everything as the recipe requires, 5l boil, hcf on and it comes up at 26.6 ibu. thats assuming that cent are 9.7% which is what the ones brewcraft sell are


----------



## Dazza_devil

With the spreadsheet I would leave the HCF off even for boils as little as 5 litres. I was doing 7 litre boils and found my brews to be over bitter with it on so I upped the volume to 8 then 9 and left the HCF off. My brews were much more balanced with this method. As far as I can deduct your bitterness will also depend on your method of hop additions. We all have a way of doing things so my advise would be to leave the HCF off and try your result. If you prefer a more bitter brew try using more hops the next time. It's probably better have a beer that's under bitter than over bitter and work your way up from there. It wont take too many brews to find something that suits you. Just remember that bitterness rounds out over time in the bottle, so don't judge your results when they are young. Depending on the style you have brewed, in general I reckon 8 weeks is a good time frame to assess your bitterness etc. If something is too bitter for your tastes try it again in 2 or 3 months and see how it's changed.
Also, the bigger the boil volume the better. Investing in a 10 litre pot would be worthwhile in my opinion.


----------



## glaab

PeteRepeat said:


> Hi there... Just been looking at this thread. I've been doing 4l boils for my recent extract brews.
> I'm just curious though about the HCF. I had previouly paid no mind to it and left it at OFF.
> When I change it to ON in Ian's spreadsheet it drops the IBU by 10 points in some cases.
> To get the IBU up to what I'd like... around say 30, the sheet suggests it's wants a truck load more hops? Does that sound right?
> You don't want to over bitter now do you... I mean in the case of a medium alpha hop say 7-8% you'd be putting in around 15 - 20 more grams...
> I'm a bit hesitant to do that. What do you guys reckon? Anyone else do small volume boils all the time?
> Pete



I always do 5l boils, it'sa waste of gas and too much stuffing around to chill a 25l boil doing extract.
Decrease the boil SG to increase the hops utilisation/ IBU's, for a 4l boil use 400g of DME.[the 500g dex is close enough] You can't be putting in the 3kg of LLME + the 500g dex for a 5l boil can you?




theredone said:


> still dont know what im doing wrong in ianh's spreadsheet. i put in everything as the recipe requires, 5l boil, hcf on and it comes up at 26.6 ibu. thats assuming that cent are 9.7% which is what the ones brewcraft sell are



same issue, if youre' doing a 5l boil just boil the 5oog dex and add the cans to the fermenter.
Try the beersmith trial version and when you add the 3kg of goo check the "add after boil" box


----------



## theredone

glaab said:


> I always do 5l boils, it'sa waste of gas and too much stuffing around to chill a 25l boil doing extract.
> Decrease the boil SG to increase the hops utilisation/ IBU's, for a 4l boil use 400g of DME.[the 500g dex is close enough] You can't be putting in the 3kg of LLME + the 500g dex for a 5l boil can you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> same issue, if youre' doing a 5l boil just boil the 5oog dex and add the cans to the fermenter.
> Try the beersmith trial version and when you add the 3kg of goo check the "add after boil" box



changing boil volume while hcf is off makes no diff at all. whith hcf on and changing boil volume to 10(even though i only do 4l boils) seems to look closer to what ibu's should be at(31)


----------



## Dazza_devil

The HCF is calculated for a 1.040 gravity boil. 
As glaab suggests changing your boil gravity will alter your hop utilisation.

From IanH's advise, he doesn't use the HCF and does 10 litre boils.


----------



## glaab

theredone said:


> changing boil volume while hcf is off makes no diff at all. whith hcf on and changing boil volume to 10(even though i only do 4l boils) seems to look closer to what ibu's should be at(31)



halving the DME/ sugar etc in the boil will do the same as doubling the boil vol


----------



## bullfrog

glaab said:


> halving the DME/ sugar etc in the boil will do the same as doubling the boil vol



Is that true even if people were making sure their boil gravities were ~1.040, regardless of the boil size?


----------



## jiesu

I thought the hop utilisation factor was for massive brews not small brews?

Taking from beersmith equipment setup guide. 



> What about Hop Utilization?
> 
> The last field, Hops Utilization, represents an equipment specific hop utilization factor. It is used primarily by professional brewers who brew very large batches. Large size professional equipment achieves much higher hop utilization than small home brew setups.
> 
> For batches less than 20 gallons, the correct setting is "100%". Very large brewing setups (36+ barrels) may have settings of 300% or more, but this setting is both size and equipment dependent.



http://www.beersmith.com/equipment_setup.htm


----------



## pokerpot

daft templar said:


> I thought the hop utilisation factor was for massive brews not small brews?
> 
> Taking from beersmith equipment setup guide.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.beersmith.com/equipment_setup.htm



Really want to try this brew but when I do a search for hops, I find the AA% to be in the 8-9.5% range for these hops. In your recipe you mention 6%.

Since I am really new, I was wondering what difference this makes and how to adjust for it. Thanks.


----------



## glaab

bullfrog said:


> Is that true even if people were making sure their boil gravities were ~1.040, regardless of the boil size?



not sure I understand the question, but if you have 5 liter @ 1040 adding 5l more water your SG is 1020, if you leave it at 5l and remove half the DME it'll be 1020. making your extract in 5l @ 1040 or 10l @ 1040 or even 23l @ 1040 will give you the same result if you do the same hops additions.

If you made Niells recipe from post# 1 with a boil gravity of 1040, you'd end up with 50+IBU's but my Cent is 9.7%AA and my Amarillo is 8.7, Niell must've had lower AA% hops than mine. To reduce it to 33 IBU with the hops adds from page 1 you need a boil SG of about 1090, 500g dex + 600g LLME in 4l.
You could reduce the IBU's by reducing the additions or the times, but the 100g in the last 30 mins is what the recipe calls for.


----------



## bullfrog

glaab said:


> not sure I understand the question, but if you have 5 liter @ 1040 adding 5l more water your SG is 1020, if you leave it at 5l and remove half the DME it'll be 1020. making your extract in 5l @ 1040 or 10l @ 1040 or even 23l @ 1040 will give you the same result if you do the same hops additions.
> 
> If you made Niells recipe from post# 1 with a boil gravity of 1040, you'd end up with 50+IBU's but my Cent is 9.7%AA and my Amarillo is 8.7, Niell must've had lower AA% hops than mine. To reduce it to 33 IBU with the hops adds from page 1 you need a boil SG of about 1090, 500g dex + 600g LLME in 4l.
> You could reduce the IBU's by reducing the additions or the times, but the 100g in the last 30 mins is what the recipe calls for.



Right. My understanding of the debate at hand was that boil size can impact the hops utilisation when the gravity is kept constant. Ie, a 4L boil at 1.040 will result in a less bitter beer than a 10L boil at 1.040 with the exact same hops schedule. I thought that's why Ianh recommends people use the HCF on his spreadsheet when doing lower volume boils.


----------



## the_yobbo

pokerpot said:


> Really want to try this brew but when I do a search for hops, I find the AA% to be in the 8-9.5% range for these hops. In your recipe you mention 6%.
> 
> Since I am really new, I was wondering what difference this makes and how to adjust for it. Thanks.



See previous post (#40) by BjornJ regarding how to adjust the quantity of the hops to match the recipe.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=514124

I hope this info is right, since I haven't done anything like this yet. I am going to attempt this recipe this weekend and hops from Craftbrewer are AA 8%-9.5%, so hopefully someone can confirm the above.


----------



## the_yobbo

Actually, it does raise a question, are the AA% used in this recipe really 6% or are they unknown/assumed/defaulted to be 6%. According to http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-3.html, the expected AA range for Centennial Hops is meant to be 9%-11.5%. 6% seems wrong?

If the recipe is based on 6% AA then as far as adjusting hop quantities to match AA% readings, I assume you'd only do that with the centennial hops since they are the bittering hops, and the amarillo more for flavour and aroma therefore shouldn't be adjusted. ?


----------



## husky

The Muzz said:


> Actually, it does raise a question, are the AA% used in this recipe really 6% or are they unknown/assumed/defaulted to be 6%. According to http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-3.html, the expected AA range for Centennial Hops is meant to be 9%-11.5%. 6% seems wrong?
> 
> If the recipe is based on 6% AA then as far as adjusting hop quantities to match AA% readings, I assume you'd only do that with the centennial hops since they are the bittering hops, and the amarillo more for flavour and aroma therefore shouldn't be adjusted. ?



I believe the actual AA% is unknows so 6% was an estimate/guess.
I finally got around to putting this down last week and after putting in Ianh's spread sheet the IBU's came out around 50-60 from memory so I reduced the second addition from 20mins to 15 to slightly lower the IBU. Will let you know how it turns out.


----------



## the_yobbo

husky said:


> I believe the actual AA% is unknows so 6% was an estimate/guess.
> I finally got around to putting this down last week and after putting in Ianh's spread sheet the IBU's came out around 50-60 from memory so I reduced the second addition from 20mins to 15 to slightly lower the IBU. Will let you know how it turns out.



Ah, of course. The magical speadsheet. That should be the answer to all extract/kit recipe questions.


----------



## the_yobbo

husky said:


> I believe the actual AA% is unknows so 6% was an estimate/guess.
> I finally got around to putting this down last week and after putting in Ianh's spread sheet the IBU's came out around 50-60 from memory so I reduced the second addition from 20mins to 15 to slightly lower the IBU. Will let you know how it turns out.



Ah, of course. The magical speadsheet. That should be the answer to all extract/kit recipe questions.


----------



## pokerpot

The Muzz said:


> Ah, of course. The magical speadsheet. That should be the answer to all extract/kit recipe questions.



Thanks for the help. I'm assuming most of the people here did this recipe to the letter and they say it came out great. The 6% 'guesstimate' doesn't seem any good to me considering that it falls out of the extreme range for the variety of hops. I think i'll stick with the recipe as written the first time out. We'll see how it turns out.


----------



## shina

Just kegged it and had a taste what a cracker this one is frigin great!!!!!!!!! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Neill

yeah sorry lads i'm not sure on the proper AA% on the hops i used originally - should really have written that down! 

With regards to HCF, I believe that in such a small boil as i have been using (4L) and large hop additions (in our case 100g here) then it will under-utilise the hops and you will end up with less bitterness. I know i have done some larger boils with exact same recipe and they always come out more bitter than the smaller boils. Plug your details into the spreadsheet and aim for 30-60 IBU depending on what your tastebuds like :beer:


----------



## ekul

I made this a few days ago without reading the entire thread so i used the exact hops weights in the first post. It was actually my first extract brew and the wort smells and tastes better than any brew i've ever made so far! I think its going to be great, and it didn't even take much longer than a K&K. I think i will do extract brews from now on if this recipe tastes good.

I didn't realise that you are meant to have the hops in a hop bag so the pellets were boiled and are now in the fermenter. They are floating at the top so i hope it all turns out all right, i'm sure it will, probably just a bit more hoppy goodness. Still smells great.

Its taking a little longer to ferment though. Jumped from 1060 to 1020 in the first 2 days (18-20C, nottingham yeast) but another 2 days on it is still sitting at 1020. There's still bubbles on top (although it is kind hard to tell with all the hops!) so i think its just taking its time to finish the last morsels.

I'll let you all know how it tastes when its ready.


----------



## Lobby Lobster

I'm bottling this on Friday - only difference was I could only get us-05.

It's my first extract so I can't wait. Yeah ekul it sure does smell fantastic. I have spent many a minute with my nose over the airlock.

Good luck with yours.


----------



## kelbygreen

throwing all the hop pellets in doesnt matter it all settles out in the fermenter. I have only brewed this with us-05 and its still good. Got some notto to try but used on another brew


----------



## ekul

hasn't moved from 1020, does this mean its 'stalled'? I gave it a good swirl yday but that just made the bubbles disapear. I hope it works out as it has been the best smelling brew i've ever done. Freom reading on these forums it seems quite common for extract brews to stop at 1020...

I just tried to lift it out of my fridge and accidently dropped it back in (its got high sides, its pretty hard to get out/in when she's full), so if that doesn't get the yeast stirred up i don't know what will!! Fingers crossed!


----------



## jzani

Took my first gravity reading of this and had a first taste. Gravity only down to 1016, but it smells and tastes great. 

Having trouble keeping the temp up to 20C down here in the South of New Zealand!


----------



## kelbygreen

Think my brew has stalled first time ever!! well not 100% sure as havnt taken a gravity reading. Put a brew down on friday and krausen in strong put on down saturday and no krausen  I pitched 2 packs of coopers yeast (as running out of money so needed a cheap beer) one of the packs was from the kit (expiry some time in 2011) and the other yeast was bought from ross only a few days before


----------



## Aus_Rider_22

Finally getting around to doing this brew! Been VERY slack lately with the brewing. But with the rigging up of my fridgemate and after tasting a variety of beers lately I am looking to get right back into it and will have both fermenters full and fermenting by Friday!

Using the same hop schedule as your original except I upped the Centennial to 30g to get more bitternes from my 8L boil. I simply added carared and caramalt to the list.

Goes as follows:

22L Brew. Boil Size: 8L

3kg Coopers LME
200g Caramalt (BB) 
200g Carared (Weyermann)
30g Centennial 9.2% (30min)
40g Amarillo 8.2% (20min)
40g Amarillo 8.2% (10min)
500g Dextrose
Nottingham yeasty

OG 1050 FG 1012
Est ABV 5% 
25 IBU
16.3 EBC

Can't wait to get brewing this afternoon.


----------



## Aus_Rider_22

Just something interesting I noted.

I have been using the trial on Beersmith and now that I've used it a bit and understand it I entered this recipe above and got the figures above.

Now I enter the exact same recipe and specifics in ianh's spreadsheet and I get different numbers. I get a calculated IBU of 37.2 an EBC of 8.8. Also the ABV is +0.5% higher in the spreadsheet. Not knocking either the spreadsheet or BS, just trying to understand how the 2 can get such different numbers?


----------



## Neill

hop concentration factor. we covered this a few pages back i think - have a read!

i've re-done this a few times and it's been a bit hit-and-miss with the bitterness, i really think we should all be doing 10L boils for consistency's sake because my results have varied considerably. Another contributing factor is the time between flameout and topping up the fermenter with cool water. that wort stays over 80 degrees for a fair while if you take your time, maybe it's upping the bitterness?

edit: Ekul, try bumping the temp up to 22 or so for four or five days, it might kick start the ferment again. notto seems to like a bit more temp at the end of the ferment to finish it all off - a bit like US-05.

the extract brews do tend to finish a bit higher, most of mine that use this base recipe of fermentables end up at 1014-1018, it doesn't effect the flavour at all adversely.


----------



## Nevalicious

Neill said:


> hop concentration factor. we covered this a few pages back i think - have a read!
> 
> i've re-done this a few times and it's been a bit hit-and-miss with the bitterness, i really think we should all be doing 10L boils for consistency's sake because my results have varied considerably. Another contributing factor is the time between flameout and topping up the fermenter with cool water. that wort stays over 80 degrees for a fair while if you take your time, maybe it's upping the bitterness?
> 
> edit: Ekul, try bumping the temp up to 22 or so for four or five days, it might kick start the ferment again. notto seems to like a bit more temp at the end of the ferment to finish it all off - a bit like US-05.
> 
> the extract brews do tend to finish a bit higher, most of mine that use this base recipe of fermentables end up at 1014-1018, it doesn't effect the flavour at all adversely.



Strange, I made this for my first extract after reading what everyone has said about it. Neill, mine ended up at 1010 smack on (calibrated hydrometer, brewed in a fridge during the last portion of summer using us-05)

Having said that, that was only my first attempt and haven't brewwed any extracts since, you think I should expect higher FG's??

Cheers

Tyler


----------



## husky

Thumbs up from me, got down to 1014 and very tasty after two weeks in the bottle, nice and hoppy. Will definatly make some variations of this combination in the future. Used US 05 as its all I had handy.


----------



## ekul

Thanks for the tip Neill, i have had her sitting at 22 for a few days and she's not moving. I was thinking of giving it a bit of a stir to get those yeasties floating around again. Do you, or anyone else, think this is a bad idea? 
Also, I have read not to splash when swirling, how much splash is bad? It ever so slightly splashed the other day, will this oxidise my brew? 

I'm buying some more hops today to give this brew another go, the wort smelt so delicious and i want it to work. Going to try it with US05 though, as that yeast has worked for me. I have worked out that it gets down to 14-16C at night sometimes here, i think this flocculated the yeast from my brew. Outside temps are actually warmer, its a very cold house (great for summer though!)


----------



## Neill

1010 is good, i think the US-05 tends to finish them off a bit lower than the notto - or else you just pitched healthier yeast than me?

ekul: stir that baby hard. a bit of 02 won't make any difference that you can taste. just swirl the whole fermenter around for 30 seconds or so, that'll do the job. if it still doesn't go any lower then 1020 is where it's supposed to finish, just taste it, and bottle it.


----------



## ekul

well i stirred the yeast up and kept the fermenter warm but it didn't seem to want to budge. I bottled it last night. I tasted it, was a little little too bitter but the taste was amazing, waaaay better than anythng i;ve ever made before. i ordered more ingredients so i can do this again. I was unsure of how much to sugar to add to the bottles (1.25L pet bottles in case of explosions) so i did an experiment. 2 carb drops for 9 and 3 for the rest.

I also found out that my local HBS buys drums of coopers malt and then puts its in little chinese takeaways. So my beer just got even cheaper


----------



## Neill

1.25L bottles will require 3 carb drops. if you're quick, you can crack the other ones and add another drop then seal them back up again.


----------



## ekul

Well i tasted it the other day and my suspicions were correct, it is the best homebrew i have ever made. Def undercarbed but the taste makes up for it  

I made another one up 3 days ago but like a retard i put under half the hops required. 

So the additions were
18g cent @ 30
18g ama @ 20
18g ama @ 10

I thought all the additions were 20g (??!)and because my last brew was a little bitter for my taste buds i decided i should add a little less hops. It only dawned on me this morning what i have actually done. Should i dry hop a little? Or just hope that it turns out alright (i have discovered that there is a lot of hoping that everythings alright in homebrewing!). 
I might just make another one up, pretty sure there is enough ingredients lying around (its not like i used them up in the last brew!)

Nice work Neill!


----------



## enoch1973

Just finished putting this one in the fermenter... made some slight variations... 
I did a 1 hour boil and added 5g of Chinook 5m before the end of the boil. 
I used some steeped grain as well... I wanted to do something wacky so I did:
200g CaraHell
200g of Caramel Rye
I did a 9l boil with the following hop additions:
10g Centennial 60m
10g Centennial 40m
30g Amarillo 20m
30g Amarillo 10m
5g Chinook 5m
Can wait to try it... first time I've used Centennial and Amarillo so I'm keen to see how it turns out...
It's got the DEX in it to... It's going to be a heavy one...  
Thanks Neill...


----------



## shina

Pete your gonna love the amarillo the flavour is awesome.I use chinook instead of centennial and it turned out fine.The taste and flavour gets better after about a month in the keg.You should try Neils hallertau bomb another good drop as well....... :super:


----------



## Parrothead

I bottled mine yesterday. Of course I had a taste - great already, and the aroma is fantastic. The only variation I made from the original recipe was in using a Cooper's Traditional Draught tin that I had on-hand in place of one of the LME's. We'll give it a vouple of weeks and try one.


----------



## Parrothead

Cracked open my first one today, in preperation for July 4th. Only 2 weeks in the bottle, not fully carbonated, but oh, so good. Hats off to the creator of this recipe! Anyone who says that you can't make great beer from extracts is a ......


----------



## Neill

Sweet.

Ditch the draught can next time and make it from all extract - much better i reckon 

enjoy!


----------



## kelbygreen

put another one down today be my 3rd or 4th one so far


----------



## ekul

Yeah i've made a few myself. I tweaked the hops schedle a little bit though. It kept coming out too bitter for some reason. Other than that it is a top brew and i'm glad that i have nearly 8 cartons of it in the shed  Indeed, everyone should make this!!


----------



## Fireman Sam

I've got another week of bottle conditioning till I get to try this little monster !!


----------



## Fireman Sam

Ok... so clearly I was a little impatient in trying this one... but WOW. What a great tasting beer Neill. If it tastes this good after only bottle conditioning for a week and half, I can't wait till it gets some age under it's belt.

No overpowering flavours, well balanced... great taste. I'm well pleased I used this for my first extract brew. If anyone is umming and ahhing about it... do it, you won't regret making this one I tells ya !

Neill (or anyone else still watching this thread)... I do have one question though. When I made the brew, I measured into a jug 500ml of the Light LME, as Neill's recipe was for 1/3 a can... 1.5kg can - I mistakenly presumed - would be 500ml. Clearly not... I realised after I had poured it into the pot, that LME is heavier than water, so 500ml doesn't equate to 500gm, as the tin is 1.1L with a weight of 1.5kg. D'oh. And after watching ThirstyBoy looking so awesomely clever with his refractometerthingiewhadyacallit at the recent GnG brew demo, I understand the importance of measuring my wort to 1040 before starting the hop boil.

Would this mean that my ability to draw the bitterness from the hops would have been reduced ?

Oh yeah... this might help... OG was 1046 and FG 1012, so no problems there...

edit: speulling


----------



## Neill

yeah you might find your bitterness is a bit out mate, live and learn i guess! Sg at 1040 is pretty important for consistent bittering between batches i've found.

Glad you guys are liking this one!


----------



## shina

you have no idea how much neil, no idea, its a big hit for me and the boys. :drinks:


----------



## 501

Q. if you were to replace the dextrose what would you recommend ?


----------



## the_yobbo

I guess that depends on why you would want to replace the dextrose?

My experience is very limited as this is my first extract brew, but from what I've read extract brews tend to have a relatively high FG. A little dextrose is added to combat the resulting sweetness and bump the alcohol % up a little.


----------



## Neill

You could replace the dextrose with simple white sugar if you had to.

The Muzz is exactly right. I find the body too "thick" if you use all malt extract, and the FG is higher which accentuates that. We use the dex to thin it down a bit.


----------



## 501

Thanks Neil 

Will give it a go, 
just like avoiding any dex / sugars etc. 

What are your experiences using ldme versus lme ? 
more less body, darkening etc...

Cheers


----------



## Neill

I don't like dried malt extract much. I can't quite put my finger on why but every batch i've made using DME has had issues with the body of the beer being a bit "strange". I much prefer the taste and mouthfeel you get from liquid extract, i think it might be more "rounded" if that describes it better?


----------



## zarth

Hi all my ingrediants just arrived so cant wait to try my first extract. On the yeast it says to hydrate is that recommended? or just pitch straight in?
amarillo 8.2%
centenial9.9%
Do I stick to original quantities with these..

Thanks for all the tips...


----------



## Pennywise

You'll be fine to just pitch it dry without hydrating. Hydrating is a way of "proofing" the yeast to make sure it's viable, also help to reduce lag time. I've never done it and have never had an issue


----------



## Nodrog

had my first bottle of this last night, yum yum yum.
Delightful taste and aroma, although the after taste seemed a bit lacking - or non existant, I guess not bitter enough.

But still, I will be making it again, thankyou for a great recipe.


----------



## HeavyNova

Hi People,

This is my first post on this forum. In the short time I've known about it, it's been a tremendous help!

I made this recipe yesterday evening, it was my first go at using liquid malt extract and a hop schedule. I also added some grain just to have a go at that too. It was good fun!

Although I'd read that it's not really neccessary to hydrate dry yeast, I was curious to see what it was like. So I also did this with a packet of Nottingham and proofed it with a teaspoon on sugar. It went crazy - good sign.

Had the majority of the water sitting in the fermentor, followed by yeast, followed by cooled wort then topped up with an extra litre of water to make it 21 L. Initial SG was 1060 and it's sitting in a room that goes between 18 and 19 degrees.

So far there has been no action - but it's only been 12 hours so I know there is no need to panic.

My question is; what experiences have you had with Nottingham yeast? Lag times? Pitching temps? Best fermentation temps?

Cheers.


----------



## Parrothead

HeavyNova said:


> Hi People,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum. In the short time I've known about it, it's been a tremendous help!
> 
> I made this recipe yesterday evening, it was my first go at using liquid malt extract and a hop schedule. I also added some grain just to have a go at that too. It was good fun!
> 
> Although I'd read that it's not really neccessary to hydrate dry yeast, I was curious to see what it was like. So I also did this with a packet of Nottingham and proofed it with a teaspoon on sugar. It went crazy - good sign.
> 
> Had the majority of the water sitting in the fermentor, followed by yeast, followed by cooled wort then topped up with an extra litre of water to make it 21 L. Initial SG was 1060 and it's sitting in a room that goes between 18 and 19 degrees.
> 
> So far there has been no action - but it's only been 12 hours so I know there is no need to panic.
> 
> My question is; what experiences have you had with Nottingham yeast? Lag times? Pitching temps? Best fermentation temps?
> 
> Cheers.




It's the "P" word - patience!! Sounds like you did everything just right - just sit back, relax, and in about 3 to 4 weeks you'll have one of the best brews you've ever tasted! As I posted earlier, mine is a bit of a hybrid - I used a Coopers Traditional Draught for one of the cans of LME - but I shared some with some super hophead freinds of mine this afternoon and they were extremely impressed. And they were all-grain snobs!! Don't let that scare you - the beauty of this recipe is that while a it is a hoppy beer, it doesn't make you wince when you drink it - pure perfection!


----------



## the_yobbo

HeavyNova said:


> Hi People,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum. In the short time I've known about it, it's been a tremendous help!
> 
> I made this recipe yesterday evening, it was my first go at using liquid malt extract and a hop schedule. I also added some grain just to have a go at that too. It was good fun!
> 
> Although I'd read that it's not really neccessary to hydrate dry yeast, I was curious to see what it was like. So I also did this with a packet of Nottingham and proofed it with a teaspoon on sugar. It went crazy - good sign.
> 
> Had the majority of the water sitting in the fermentor, followed by yeast, followed by cooled wort then topped up with an extra litre of water to make it 21 L. Initial SG was 1060 and it's sitting in a room that goes between 18 and 19 degrees.
> 
> So far there has been no action - but it's only been 12 hours so I know there is no need to panic.
> 
> My question is; what experiences have you had with Nottingham yeast? Lag times? Pitching temps? Best fermentation temps?
> 
> Cheers.



I put my second batch of this brew down on Saturday. I made a 1L yeast starter with nottingham 2 days before brew day. Lag time was less than 12 hrs after pitching into the fermenter. 
I'm sure it will fire up, just give it time.
Also to note, the original recipe is for 23L which should give ~4.9% alcohol. As yours is 21L, it'll lead to a bit of a stronger drop, in alcohol and probably hop aroma/flavour/bitterness.


----------



## HeavyNova

Thanks guys,

Muzz - I must have missed the part in the recipe which says 23L. Not to worry, I quite like some hoppiness.

I'll keep an eye on it an report back here when the yeast kicks in!

Thanks again.


----------



## HeavyNova

I started to see some activity after 24 hours. It's now got a nice frothy top at 48 hours. No furious bubbling like other have reported when using Nottingham, but I never get much bubbling - maybe there's a small leak in my lid. I might give the gladwrap top a go for the next brew.

Currently sitting in a room at 18 to 19 degrees C, the thermometer on the fermenter looks like its a 20 (exothermic). This is getting towards the top end for the yeast, would it be better to find a cooler spot for it?


----------



## chrisbell

Good question HeavyNova.

I think you should move it.

In thermodynamics, the term exothermic ("outside heating") describes a process or reaction that releases energy usually in the form of heat, but also in the form of light (e.g. a spark, flame, or explosion), electricity (e.g. a battery), or sound(e.g. burning hydrogen). Its etymology stems from the Greek prefix ex- (meaning "outside") and the Greek word thermein (meaning "to heat"). The term exothermic was first coined by Marcellin Berthelot. The opposite of an exothermic process is an endothermic process, one that absorbs energy in the form of heat.

The concept is frequently applied in the physical sciences to chemical reactions, where chemical bond energy is converted to thermal energy (heat).

For this reason your brew will always be slightly warmer than its surroundings. Try putting it in the fridge for half the day and then out in your lounge room after that.
Just kidding. Water on the lid with a fan always does the trick.

Peace out.


----------



## the_yobbo

Welcome to the forums Chris. 

As noticed, your brew will sit above the ambient temperature by a degree or two for the next few days while the fermentation is going strong. As it slows down, it will cool down closer to the ambient temperature.
It would probably be slightly beneficial if you could cool it down a degree or 2 for the next few days to try and keep it closer to 18 degrees. However, If I was you, I probably wouldn't bother unless you've got another room in the house that happens to be a couple of degrees cooler. 
I've got my brew in a fermenting fridge and I've got the temp set to 19 degrees and the brew is at 20. I could/should cool it down a touch, but I've previously had stalled fermentations which I've blamed on the temperature (probably more due to poor oxygenation of the wort to begin with in hindsight).


----------



## HeavyNova

Cheers Muzz,

Yeah, unfortunately it's in the coolest room at the moment. I'm thinking it would be better to hold it steady rather than the up and down temps outside (hitting 5 overnight and 20 in the day).

Hi Chris,

You're probably right, this might be the only way to knock a degree or 2 off it with how it's currently set up. Can't hurt to try I suppose!


----------



## the_yobbo

I wouldn't put water on the lid personally due to the inherant risk of it making it's way past the grommet into your brew. It's probably not a big risk now, but could be when the fermentation slows and the temperature drops.
A wet wrag over it and a fan would get my tick of approval.


----------



## Munut

Hi Guys,

Was thinking about making this.

When I put Neill's original hop schedual in my spreadsheet in 21L I get about 57 IBU.

In the DB Neill says he gets around 30 in the spreadsheet has something gone crook with my version of the spreadsheet?

57 sounds way OTT for my taste.

Do I just follow his schedual?

Thanks


----------



## Lodan

Hi Munut,

Are you using Ian's spreadsheet?

If so, the IBU calculation is affected by the Hop Concentration Factor and the boil volume.

Try HCF yes and 6L boil

Lodan

Edit: note that the Neill's recipe is made up to 23L, a smaller volume will give you a higher IBU


----------



## Munut

Lodan said:


> Hi Munut,
> 
> Are you using Ian's spreadsheet?
> 
> If so, the IBU calculation is affected by the Hop Concentration Factor and the boil volume.
> 
> Try HCF yes and 6L boil
> 
> Lodan
> 
> Edit: note that the Neill's recipe is made up to 23L, a smaller volume will give you a higher IBU




That looks better cheers


----------



## HeavyNova

Ok, it's been in the bottles for almost 2 weeks. Had one last night and it's friggin beautiful!

My recipe included some additional spec grains so it ended up being more like a 'partial' but the base recipe and insipration came from the OP, so thanks very much!

I'll definately making this again sometime.


----------



## jmnug2

How does everyone reckon this recipe would go using a lager yeast and fermenting at 11 degrees?

I was thinking:

2.5kg LDME
500g Dextrose
300g carapils
20g Centennial @ 30 min
40g Amarillo @ 20 min
40g Amarillo @ 10 min

either s-23 or 2206 for the yeast.

Just thought it would give a nice clean hoppy taste as it's too cold to brew ales where I live at the moment.


----------



## zarth

My first extract brew is this recipe and now bottled for about a week Smelt and tasted fantastic straight from fermenter cant wait to crack a few...Only added 200gms crystal to original recipe...


----------



## DangerousDave

put down original recipe plus 250g of pale crystal malt steeped for 30 min as my first ever extract

tasted so friggin fantastic my next door neighbour (my taste tester) refused to beleive i made it myself

anyone thinking of trying extract DOOO IIIIIT and with this recipe being so easy its a simple step from K&K

thankue Neill you saved my life (well maybe not but you made my beer better which in my book is just as good :lol: )


----------



## Parrothead

Having the last bottle of my batch as I type this. I guess we all know what that means! :kooi:


----------



## Mikedub

I used Cascade/Amarillo because I could't find Centennial, twofiddy steeped crystal and 500g dex, 
awesome drop,
thanks Neill


----------



## MPH

Mikedub said:


> I used Cascade/Amarillo because I could't find Centennial, twofiddy steeped crystal and 500g dex,
> awesome drop,
> thanks Neill



Yeah, I did the same minus the crystal. Did the shopping at Brew Cellar cos the LHBS closes at 1 on a Saturday (outageous  ) They didn't have Centennial and the closest yeast was their Premium Ale Yeast. 

It's still come out a treat - especially as a first full extract. Luckily I held some back for cellaring or my mates would have cleaned me out on Grand Final day(s)!

Now got an American Brown down, again with Amarillo, which should be ready for drinking in about 3 weeks.

Can definitely see why the thread's up to 16 pages!

By the way, has anyone done an AG version?


----------



## Neill

Good to see people still making this one.

I brewed another batch of it last week and it's just about finished fermenting - man it smells great. Still one of my all-time favourites!


----------



## chemacky

Mine just carbed up... opened up one. Over carbed. God knows how that happened. Definitely not an infection, because it tastes awesome! Can't see how fermentation couldn't have been finished, it got about a month in primary, with 3 sequential hydro readings all the same over about a week, even a swirl in there! ... maybe I put two carb lollies into that one.


Anyway, awesome recipe Neill, thanks mate!


----------



## Lodan

I have had this on my list sincce i joined the forums not long ago, putting it down this weekend


----------



## Helmut

Will be bottling my version up tonight. Tasted the SG sample tube last night. Mmmmmmm tastes awesome and smells a treat too.


----------



## stef

Dragging up this thread (again)

For you guys who have made this one (seems like a lot of people), do you think its better clear or cloudy? It'll be my next brew- not sure whether to rack it, use finings, cold crash etc, or just to botttle it right out of primary.

Any opinions? I usually prefer to clear my brews up, but dont mind the occasional cloudy ale if its full bodied etc.


----------



## Neill

Whichever you want. It will make no difference to the taste. Having said that, I usually bottle these types of brews quickly so the hops are fresh in the bottle when you crack them later. The flavour will subside quickly in this brew and it is best drunk less than 3 months after bottling in my opinion.


----------



## BobtheBrewer

Everyone should make this - or perhaps not. I've made a few of these and today, for no good reason I can think of, I gave my non drinking wife a sip. "I could drink that, did you bottle any of it? We could take it camping with us" she said. I hadn't bottled any so I'm in the shit. Lots of sayings come to mind, particularly the one about talking to trees.


----------



## enoch1973

Lol... you need to go and find the Party Keg thread... 
That'd be very portable and good for a camping trip.
You'd probably need two of them though.


Birkdale Bob said:


> Everyone should make this - or perhaps not. I've made a few of these and today, for no good reason I can think of, I gave my non drinking wife a sip. "I could drink that, did you bottle any of it? We could take it camping with us" she said. I hadn't bottled any so I'm in the shit. Lots of sayings come to mind, particularly the one about talking to trees.


----------



## hijax

i bottled this recipe two weeks ago as my very first move from k&k's to extract brewing and i can't bloody believe the difference!!! I used notty i got from craft brewer (the bad batch) and it worked like a dream. i cant believe how good it tastes compared to any of the 14 different kit beers ive done. Theres no turning back now! I tastes so much better!


----------



## peterl1981

whats the spreadsheet you use neil??


----------



## Chookers

If I were to use Coopers Amber LME, would this address the need for crystal grain?


----------



## DU99

i have bought the stuff and are about to give it a try..but i will be using Safale s33..


----------



## Neill

Lynchman: IanH's spreadsheet mostly. I do small boils of 5L so the hop concentration factor needs to be taken into account if you do larger boils or your bitterness will be way off. Aim for 30-40 IBU and adjust your boil times as needed.

Chookers: No. it will just make it darker. Use 2 tins of pale LME, it's an american pale style beer so you want it light golden in colour with a light body. Darker LME will make it look wrong, and taste wrong. Steeping some cracked grains will sweeten up the body a bit and add complexity.

Du99: I don't know anything about s33 so can't help ya there. Any clean-fermenting ale yeast should be fine, but some tend to scrub hop flavours more than others (which is why i like using Nottingham)


----------



## dans6401

Made this a while back, and was very pleased with the result.
Thanks Neill.
Anyway would like to do it again but as you probably all know, still can't get the Nottingham after the recall.
Was about to buy the Us-05 at the way overpriced local HBS, and then thought bugger it, i've got a heap of slants in the fridge that will cost me nothing. (Well a little for the malt) but a lot cheaper than the $8 they're asking. 
So my question is what wyeast would you recommend as a good substitute? Maybe the 1272?
Thanks


----------



## Shifter

Wow, I have just made this with the addition of the crystal steeped for 30 mins at 65 - 70 deg C. Used US 05 yeast could not get Nottingham in Tassie. It smells beautiful as does the whole house with the hop boil. If it tastes as good it will be superb - Thanks Neill.


----------



## Shifter

This has been in the keg now for 6 days, and is spot on, can only get better! Just done another version with 1.5kg of Amber LME.


----------



## shavey147

Just bottled a batch of this about half an hour ago, smells and tastes amazing. Might have to crack one at 2 weeks just to see how good it really is. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## adz1179

putting this one down tomorrow, thought my pot was a lot bigger than it is... just getting prepaired at the moment and i reckon im onl going to get a 4l boil - anyone reckon this will cause any problems? should i reduce anything?

cheers


----------



## shavey147

Popped the top off one of these last night, unfortunately my non beer drinking SWMBO had a taste and decided that she could drink this. Can't see this batch lasting very long so I may be brewing this one again very soon

:chug:


----------



## Fodder

Put this one down this arvo, and not sure if my yeast is working or not...Absolutley no action in the fermentor 6-7 hrs after pitching. No foam, no bubbles, no nothing.

Just wondered if anyone had long lag times with nottingham yeast?

Mines sitting quite comfortably at 20-21 degrees at the moment. Yeast was rehydrated in 33 degree water, and sat for about an hour before adding some wort to the yeast slurry, but the wort quite clearly sat seperate (on top) and did not activate (foam up) like i would have expected. I added more wort (in order to equal out the difference in temps between the hydrated yeast and wort) and then pitched it anyway and so far nothing.

Not sure if i am over reacting and just temp shocked the yeasties or should look at re-pitching...

I have a US-05 handy if needs be, but just wondered, how long should I wait before deciding that this yeast is definately cactus?


----------



## Neill

good to see people are still making and enjoying this one! I do it about every fourth brew now and I still love it each time.

Fodder: I usually rehydrate my yeast by getting a sterile glass, putting some 20deg water in with a teaspoon of white sugar, pitch yeast in. I do this while i'm boiling, then pitch the yeast around 6 hours later or so, when my brew is at 20deg or whatever my target is. The notto is usually flocculating hard by then. After adding the brew it usually takes a full 12 hours to start bubbling, it multiplies a lot before bubbling and activity starts. relax and have a beer, you can always pitch yeast much later, after all what you have right now is basically a no-chill container with a brew ready to go. No rush to start, assuming it was all nice and sterile to start with!


----------



## Fodder

Neill said:


> good to see people are still making and enjoying this one! I do it about every fourth brew now and I still love it each time.
> 
> Fodder: I usually rehydrate my yeast by getting a sterile glass, putting some 20deg water in with a teaspoon of white sugar, pitch yeast in. I do this while i'm boiling, then pitch the yeast around 6 hours later or so, when my brew is at 20deg or whatever my target is. The notto is usually flocculating hard by then. After adding the brew it usually takes a full 12 hours to start bubbling, it multiplies a lot before bubbling and activity starts. relax and have a beer, you can always pitch yeast much later, after all what you have right now is basically a no-chill container with a brew ready to go. No rush to start, assuming it was all nice and sterile to start with!




Cheers Neill. I left it for a good 24 hrs and there was still no activity at all in the fermentor. Seems the yeast had all settled to the bottom and was doing didly-squat. Gave it a good stir and plenty of oxygenation on a couple of occasions and still nothing, so decided to re-pitch the US-05 I had sitting around. Noticable change almost instantly, with bubbling and the usual foamy krak on top, with bubbles through the airlock in no less than a few hours later...

Not sure why the Nottingham yeast didnt work in the first place...may have got a bit hot in the car between the brew shop and home, went from hot car to fridge, then sat in the warm rehydrating water for an hour or so whilst i was brewing up, then added to too cool a brew...Perhaps the multiple temp changes over the day where a bit much for it??? 

Either way, shes bubbling away nicely now, sitting in the bath at a comfortable 21 degrees. Smells fastastic! Cant wait to bottle this little baby.

EDIT: Speeling


----------



## Pennywise

I remembr reading a while ago something about temp shock to yeast. I can't remember exactly the details, but do remember anything more than 10 degrees shock could harm it, possible kill a bit off? Dunno, sure some one with the new yeast book will be kind enough to enlighten us


----------



## Shifter

This is a great beer to make and drink. I did a version with 1 x Amber LME instead of 2 x light LME's. Came out well but quite as much hop flavour. Got another original in the Fermenter. Thanks Neil, lovely stuff!!! I also add 200 - 300g of crystal (120) which has been steeped.


----------



## Neill

could be yeast shock, could just be a dud batch? who knows what happened between the yeast production place and the brew shop, it could have gone through the namibian desert on a camel for all we know. this happens every now and again, the best thing you can do is have a spare yeast packet sitting in the fridge for emergencies.


----------



## Fodder

Just a little update from last weeks brew day.

Racked to secondary yesterday after 7 days of brew action, SG reading: 1020. A little surprised at how high this one is still sitting at..

My O.G. was 1046, and has been bubbling nicely at 21-22 degrees for the week. Just hoping that it will continue to drop a little more as I expected a lower reading by this stage...

Smells amazing, hops and other gunk has settled out nicely. A little bit of cloudyness when racking to secondary, but nothing unexpected. 

Will monitor SG and hopefully watch it drop a little more, looking to add finings towards the end of week, so I can then transfer to a third vessel for bulk prime and bottling at the weekend... :icon_cheers:


----------



## going down a hill

I have had this brew in the primary for 6 days now, it is at a 1012. The db recipe details states 10 days in primary 10 days in secondary, my question is do I need to rack to a secondary for a reason or can I jump that stage and bottle it this weekend?

Cheers


----------



## Pennywise

You don't _have_ to rack to secondary, people do it for different reasons, but it wont ruin the beer if you don't. I do like to crash chill my beers for a couple of days though to help drop some yeast out, sometimes I don't get that chance though. I've made this beer several times now, and haven't done a secondary quite a few times, still bloody nice...


----------



## Shifter

Very nice beer!!!


----------



## going down a hill

Thanks Pennywise, I thought it was something along those lines.


----------



## HeavyNova

going down a hill said:


> I have had this brew in the primary for 6 days now, it is at a 1012. The db recipe details states 10 days in primary 10 days in secondary, my question is do I need to rack to a secondary for a reason or can I jump that stage and bottle it this weekend?
> 
> Cheers


Down a hill - I have never done any secondary fermentation. I nearly always just leave the brew in the fermenter for 10-14 days then bottle. My understanding is that it's mainly done to allow the beer to clear further without the ill effects of leaving the beer on the yeast cake too long. A bit of time on with yeast cake after the main ferment is done can be benificial as yeast tend to clean up their other flavours after running out of sugar - that's why I'll normally leave for 14 days in primary.

If the brew is completely fermented then there is no problem bottling it straight from the primary fermenter.

EDIT - Sorry, beaten to it.


----------



## going down a hill

Couldn't help myself on the weekend and cracked one open. It's a little gem of a recipe, even at two weeks in the bottle. 

Cheers


----------



## d3vour3r

mines been in primary for over 2 weeks and is at 1016.

dont know if anything went wrong but it looks good. Ive thrown in sum gelatine and will bottle it tonite.

Is this beer particularly bitter? taste nice but is really bitter. this is just me tasting when i take sg readings though.

I also think i stuffed up the recipe by using 2 coopers australian pale ale tins instead of 2 coopers LME (pale). I originally thought they were the same...


----------



## ekul

The australian pale ale cans already have hops added to them so if you used these your brew will be extra bitter. Plus you've used two cans as well so its twice as bitter before you've even started. Those cans are like 20IBU's aren't they?

The coopers pale malt cans don't have any hops added to them so aren't bitter, this is why you have to add hops to them.

I think your brew will be pretty bitter, but hopefully it will subside with time.




d3vour3r said:


> mines been in primary for over 2 weeks and is at 1016.
> 
> dont know if anything went wrong but it looks good. Ive thrown in sum gelatine and will bottle it tonite.
> 
> Is this beer particularly bitter? taste nice but is really bitter. this is just me tasting when i take sg readings though.
> 
> I also think i stuffed up the recipe by using 2 coopers australian pale ale tins instead of 2 coopers LME (pale). I originally thought they were the same...


----------



## d3vour3r

woopsy

live and learn, still should be nice, i like bitter beers anyway haha



ekul said:


> The australian pale ale cans already have hops added to them so if you used these your brew will be extra bitter. Plus you've used two cans as well so its twice as bitter before you've even started. Those cans are like 20IBU's aren't they?
> 
> The coopers pale malt cans don't have any hops added to them so aren't bitter, this is why you have to add hops to them.
> 
> I think your brew will be pretty bitter, but hopefully it will subside with time.


----------



## Amber Fluid

I want to do one of these for my first extract beer but I don't have any Centennial hops so was wondering if Cascade would be a good substitute for the Centennial instead?


----------



## kelbygreen

it would be a alright sub but it will not be any where near the same beer. but the hops schedule for this recipe would work well with all fruity american hops


----------



## mwd

Amber Fluid said:


> I want to do one of these for my first extract beer but I don't have any Centennial hops so was wondering if Cascade would be a good substitute for the Centennial instead?



Should be O.K. but a different beer Cascade has more grapefruit in its flavour. Centennial = super Cascade.

CB hop list compare the two


----------



## Amber Fluid

Thanks for the response guys. I would get some Centennial but the LHBS here doesn't stock it and the postage from CB is $10+.  I am waiting on an order from CB now, I should have included the hops then if I had of known


----------



## Shifter

Amber Fluid said:


> Thanks for the response guys. I would get some Centennial but the LHBS here doesn't stock it and the postage from CB is $10+.  I am waiting on an order from CB now, I should have included the hops then if I had of known



Amber, I have enough Centennial for you to do a brew, from memory you only need 20g. Give me a call.


----------



## domix

Just cracked a bottle after 2 weeks conditioning. Very nice. Great hop combo.
Ended up doing the recipe with 200g of light crystal.

10 days in primary and 10 days in secondary because I was busy.
Clearest beer so far though.
Bulk primed 21L with 150g of dextrose.

A little light on the carbonation atm. (im guessing because of the long fermentation and cold melbourne weather)
Hopefully another week will bring it up.

Definitely gonna try this recipe again with some different hops for comparison.

thanks Neill


----------



## Amber Fluid

Thanks mate, will do.



Shifter said:


> Amber, I have enough Centennial for you to do a brew, from memory you only need 20g. Give me a call.


----------



## BjornJ

Hi guys,
is there an AG version of this recipe?

Both Jason (northern beaches brew club) and I have ordered Centennial and Amarillo just to try this one out  

Thinking pilsner malt and using the hopping schedule from page 1 to 31 IBUs.

But might do with a bit of munich or caramalt or something to give it a touch more maltiness and flavour than only pilsner malt?

How light coloured is this beer, are we talking Tooheys New or Golden Ale?

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## BjornJ

found the recipe in the Recipe DB, so can see colour there.

thanks
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=867 

Hmm.... I was thinking of making it a bit darker though..


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Brewed this up a month ago and is bloody delicious after 3 weeks in the bottle.

LHBS didn't have centennial (& I only had 60g of amarillo) so I had to tweak it like so:

30g Cascade @ 40min
20g Cascade 20g Amarillo @ 20min
40g Amarillo @ 10min

Bright light golden colour & a passionfruit aroma which leaps out of the glass and punches you in the face.

Was my first extract brew & was a nice easy introduction to a full boil.
will definitely try to follow the script next time, it looks like a winning formula.

(fk me I'll also use hop bags next time)


----------



## Pennywise

BjornJ said:


> found the recipe in the Recipe DB, so can see colour there.
> 
> thanks
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=867
> 
> Hmm.... I was thinking of making it a bit darker though..



BjornJ, looking back at all the times I'be brewed this, I also added a bit of crystal malt to it, ranging anywhere from 100g (med) to 3-400g (pale). I don't think it matters really with this one, the hop combo & times are spot on so it's pretty hard to make it not nice. Think the best one for me was when I used the Pale Crystal


----------



## Shifter

Drinking this right now - I used 350g of Caramalt which gave a little more body, beautiful hop aroma and smack. Bloody good simple beer, works every time!


----------



## BjornJ

thanks guys,
I made an AG recipe now, and thought I'd add some caramalt as suggested to give it a touch more of colour and flavour.

I can't do the hop additions as expected though, the beer would be really bitter at 45 IBUs while Neill says about 30 in the recipe.
So it seems the AA% is higher in the hops I have.





I reduced the amounts of amarillo a little bit to get down towards 30 IBUs.




Hopefully this doesn't screw too much with the original combo Neill uses.
Have read parts of this thread on and off and want to give it a go  


Are you guys using the hopping schedule and getting 30ish IBUs or do you reduce the hops a bit to not make it overly bitter?



thanks
Bjorn


----------



## enoch1973

BjornJ: anything in the high 30's for IBU is awesome. That's just my preference...

Good work Neill you posted this on: Aug 4 2009, 07:49 PM
And the thread is still going strong... 
I've made a few different variants on the original recipe and have always found it to be awesome.
Wonder if it will make 2 years?


----------



## ben_sa

I made this up last night, using DME instead, only a half batch with a 3.5L boil. Lost stuff all through evap.

it was :1.2kg LDME (200g in boil)
250g dex
10g Centennial 30min
20g Amarillo 20min
20g Amarillo 10min
Notto and whirfloc

Made to 11.5-12L

Its simply to fill my party keg 

Brewmate calculated to about 45ish IBU's... 

Is this going to be ok....


----------



## BjornJ

so with only malt extract and dextrose I assume it's a light-coloured not very malty thing.
More like a bright Ale kind of color, maybe?

Can't decide to keep it that light or add something to slightly beef it up.

Jason is looking at adding some munich and wheat as well which also sounds really nice.
Maybe I'll stick with the no dextrose and use some caramalt so we can compare versions.

Bjorn


----------



## Shifter

Make the original first, then "beef" it up is you so wish - it is really very good as original, nice and hoppy, which I like!


----------



## kymba

PeteRepeat said:


> Wonder if it will make 2 years?



sounds like a great reason for a party to me!

get everyone to bring a sample of their Neil

should be a national holiday


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Yep I'm keen. Might follow the script this time


----------



## Salt

Made this brew on Sunday, a few slight variations on ingredients due to supply at LHBS. Some shortages in supply due to the CHCH earthquake...

Recipe as follows;

1.5 kg Light DME
1.8kg Muntons Light LME
20g Centennial @ 30min
30g Amarillo @ 20min
30g Amarillo @ 10min
US - 05 yeast

Boiled 500gm DME in 5lts of water and did hop additions as recipe suggested. Reduced the Amarillo slighty so that I have enough left for another brew...tight ass i know!

Cooled the wort and added to fermenter. Big mistake, as when I added the remaining 1kg of DME it clumped up and would not mix in. Had to add some boiling water to it and work it like crazy to break down. Next time I will add to the kettle at flame out to help dissolve easier. This was my first time using DME, so live and learn.

Stirred in can of Muntons and topped up to 23Lts. Pitched yeast at 22degC. Tasted really good out of the fermenter and had a OG of 1042.

No secondary fermenter, so planning on leaving it in Primary for 12 days and then bottle.

Really looking forward to trying this in about a month, as this is my first extract brew. Can almost taste it now!

Cheers!!


----------



## Salt

---

Am an impatient bugger...tried a small sample out of fermenter after only 3 days...smells awesome and although murky with Hops etc, tastes pretty good. Bottling next week, then on holiday for 10days, but looking forward to trying when I return. I can see this becoming an obsession...


----------



## Neill

nearly at 20 pages guys, glad to see everyone is liking this still. I have a few in the fridge for tonight


----------



## AlwayzLoozeCount

I got all the stuff I need to give this a try.
When it says do a 5L boil with 0.5kg of LME Does that mean 5L of water plus the LME on top of that or can I put my goo into the saucepan then top it up to 5L including goo? 
Hope that made sence.


----------



## mwd

AlwayzLoozeCount said:


> I got all the stuff I need to give this a try.
> When it says do a 5L boil with 0.5kg of LME Does that mean 5L of water plus the LME on top of that or can I put my goo into the saucepan then top it up to 5L including goo?
> Hope that made sence.



Add the LME to the 5L of water. Probably much easier to do with dry malt extract.


----------



## BjornJ

Hi guys,
never got around to do that recipe I made, thinking of trying it again tomorrow if I get time.

But I really fancy a dark beer this brew round.

So thinking of keeping Neill's hop schedule to experience the Centennial and Amarillo mix and just add some carafa special 1 and maybe even a touch of roasted wheat to satisfy that black beer thirst  

Will see if I get around to it but really want to try the hop combo.

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## kiwisteveo

BjornJ said:


> Hi guys,
> never got around to do that recipe I made, thinking of trying it again tomorrow if I get time.
> 
> But I really fancy a dark beer this brew round.
> 
> So thinking of keeping Neill's hop schedule to experience the Centennial and Amarillo mix and just add some carafa special 1 and maybe even a touch of roasted wheat to satisfy that black beer thirst
> 
> Will see if I get around to it but really want to try the hop combo.
> 
> thanks
> Bjorn



just drinking this brew now with 

carafa 1 0.1kg
light crystal 0.1kg
medium crystal 0.1kg
ldm 0.5kg
ddm 0.2kg
and 3kg of light liquid malt extract

been three weeks in the bottle still slightly undercarbed cause its a bit colder but has lost a little bit of the hop flavour/aroma with the extra stuff added this time around so would increase the hops if you were going darker


----------



## Paxton

It's been a bloody long time since I posted here, but...

I'm going to give the original a go as a toe in the water attempt at Home Brew after four years. I've ordered all the stuff, have cleaned out (with lots of bleach) my fermenter, and have to dig under the house for my bottles, but I've been looking at getting a brew down for a while. I made (and drank) the Easy Drinking Pale Ale from the good K&K recipes thread, but that was the last beer I've brewed.

Wish me luck.


----------



## Joshisgood

Put this down 4 days ago, stuck to recipe + 200g light crystal. Sampled a little out of the fermenter today and it's awesome, smells amazing, tastes great can't wait till this ones ready. This is only my fourth brew and my first extract but judging by this I don't think I'll be going back to kits, cheers for the recipe Neill. Will post results in a few weeks


----------



## Salt

Just put down my second batch of this brew...first one was great - didnt last long enough! Would like to keep this as my house brew and just alter slightly to suit tastes...

This time round;
3kg Black Rock Light LME
500g Light DME
250g Dextrose
250g Carapils (30min Steep in 2Lts)
5L boil with Grain water and DME
Hop additions as per recipe @ 30m, 15m and 5m
Pitched US-05 @ 22 deg and will drop down to 18 deg
Primary 1 week, secondary for another week
Dry hop with a further 15g each in secondary
Gelatine for finings (works a treat for those who havent tried it)


----------



## soundawake

Just put this one down.. my first hop boil!! I did a 6L boil.

Couple of questions - when I put in the first 20g of Centennial, it almost boiled over then settled down. A significant amount of hop stuff was left on the side of the pot and not in the boil, is this something that I should have been concerned about?

Also- I've got the wort sitting in the fermenter, its sitting at 22-23 degrees right now, I'm waiting for it to get down to 20 before pitching the Notto yeast. Should I give the wort another stir before pitching, as its fairly settled now?

Sorry for noob questions.


----------



## rumdiary

> Just put down my second batch of this brew...first one was great - didnt last long enough! Would like to keep this as my house brew and just alter slightly to suit tastes...
> 
> This time round;
> 3kg Black Rock Light LME
> 500g Light DME
> 250g Dextrose
> 250g Carapils (30min Steep in 2Lts)
> 5L boil with Grain water and DME
> Hop additions as per recipe @ 30m, 15m and 5m
> Pitched US-05 @ 22 deg and will drop down to 18 deg
> Primary 1 week, secondary for another week
> Dry hop with a further 15g each in secondary
> Gelatine for finings (works a treat for those who havent tried it)



how did it turn out Salt? 
Is it essential to use the coopers brand of LME or will black rock or any other brand be ok? is there much difference between brands of LME?


----------



## PhilipB

Is this brew really good? this thread has made two years. Who is still making it?


----------



## the_new_darren

I will definately give it a try

on the juice

tnd

(nearly there GL)


----------



## stillscottish

Spoiler.


----------



## the_new_darren

ooooh


----------



## witty

i have this one in the fermenter as we speak. i will let you know how it went.
but i had to change it a bit.

US-05 yeast

30gm cascade hops in lieu of centenal

75 of amerallo.
(all boils stayed at suggested boil times -30gm @ 30min, 35gm at 20 min, 35gm at 10min.
2kgs of DLME, 1.7 coopers tin of LME

(and i added dregs of dex (250gm) and Brew enhancer 2 (267gm))

SG was around 1.060.

once it settled - i did get a bit (1.5cmish) of sediment (prob due to loosing half of hops when i strained it into fermenter!!)


----------



## PhilipB

Does boiling a % of the LME in the water for the hops addition affect the LME in a negative way at all?


----------



## J Grimmer

PhilipB said:


> Does boiling a % of the LME in the water for the hops addition affect the LME in a negative way at all?



not that i have seen, even if it did (and i don't believe it does) the benifit of increased hop utilisation far outways any negative implications of the LME boiled in water for 30-60min.


----------



## PhilipB

J Grimmer said:


> not that i have seen, even if it did (and i don't believe it does) the benifit of increased hop utilisation far outways any negative implications of the LME boiled in water for 30-60min.



thanks


----------



## Matt89

Definitely starting this brew once my pimpweizen is racked!


----------



## Neill

I still make this every third brew or so, it's just that good. My mates can't get enough of it - a few are offering me $40 for a carton of it! I should go into production. It's a classic that's for sure - discovered by accident!


----------



## Mattress

I made this 4 days ago, in the fermenter now.

Looking forward to giving it a taste


----------



## rumdiary

bottled this today, smelling and tasting great, going to be a long 2 weeks..


----------



## pist

Just put this one down yesterday, my first extract brew, was piss easy, dont know why I didnt do it sooner.

Struggled to get the temp down to pitching temp after the boil with the warm weather, should have bought a bag of ice to put in the sink with it to cool it. Lesson learnt. 

Ended up having to pitch the rehydrated yeast at 30c, far less than ideal, but had no choice.  

Fingers crossed I haven't buggered it, will be a long wait till first sampling. The hops smell unreal


----------



## Matt89

When I make this I wanna use gelatine or some sort of finings to really make it a cracker taste and look, how do I go about doing that? How much and when?
Cheers


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Matt89 said:


> When I make this I wanna use gelatine or some sort of finings to really make it a cracker taste and look, how do I go about doing that? How much and when?
> Cheers


plenty of info elsewhere on the forum:
http://www.google.com.au/search?gcx=w&...ehomebrewer.com


----------



## JaseH

I just kicked off a version of this recipe as my second ever brew, looking forward to trying it out! Mine consisted of:

2.5kg LDME
0.2kg Carapils
0.1kg Amber Crystal
0.5kg Dextrose

Hop additions as per Neils suggestion
Centennial 20g 30Mins
Amarillo 40g 20Mins
Amarillo 40g 10Mins

With US-05

Predicted (Kit Extract Beer Designer)
OG 1.052 (actual 1056)
FG 1.011
IBU 34.8
EBC 9.3
%alc 5.6

I purchased the hops in 90gm bags, so have 10gm of Amarillo left, should I just throw it in the FV to add a little late hop aroma?


----------



## Matt89

wanna put this one down today but just wanna know if there is a difference between LME and LME (pale) my LHBS has the coopers LME cans but it doesn't mention pale on the can anywhere?


----------



## Matt89

just grabbed LME, steeping grains atm!


----------



## kario

Neill said:


> About 6 weeks ago i made this:
> 
> 2 x 1.5kg Coopers LME tins (pale)
> 500g Dextrose
> 20g Centennial @ 30 min
> 40g Amarillo @ 20 min
> 40g Amarillo @ 10 min
> 
> Total 31 IBU
> 
> OG 1058
> 
> Pitch Nottingham (would probably work well with US-05 too) and keep the temps under 20 degrees.
> 
> FG 1013



I bought the stuff to make this up, but only bought one sachet (11gms) of the Nottingham yeast.

The packet says usage rate 1g/L - so do I need a second pack?


----------



## Neill

Disregard the packet. Rehydrate the yeast in some 25 degree water (I use a beer glass) for 30 mins before pitching. One packet is heaps!


----------



## pist

Yep I used one packet and it ripped along quite nicely, as Neill has said just make sure you rehydrate it


----------



## pist

I did notice that the notto scrubbed out the aroma/flavour pretty bad, next time I do it I think I will use US05, i reckon its not as aggressive towards hop oils as notto is. I did sample it with only a week in the bottle to, so might me the malt extract hiding it a bit as well, it did taste very malty


----------



## d3vour3r

Matt89 said:


> wanna put this one down today but just wanna know if there is a difference between LME and LME (pale) my LHBS has the coopers LME cans but it doesn't mention pale on the can anywhere?




Just make sure u get the unhopped light/pale LME. dont do what i did and get 2 tins of pale ale kits. the bitterness was a bit too intense. was still drinkable though.


----------



## kario

pist said:


> I did notice that the notto scrubbed out the aroma/flavour pretty bad, next time I do it I think I will use US05, i reckon its not as aggressive towards hop oils as notto is.



Opinions on this point?

I'm about to put this one down......should I go with the US-05?


----------



## campo133

Hi all.
Long time reader first time posting.
I put this recipe down 5 days ago along with 250g steeped crystal, the boil and wort smelt and tasted fantastic. Gravity is down to 1018 and falling. Cant wait to get this into the bottles and maturing!!
Just out of curiosity was wondering if anyone can compare this to any beers on the market? Just to ease my impatience.
Cheers


----------



## going down a hill

pist said:


> I did notice that the notto scrubbed out the aroma/flavour pretty bad, next time I do it I think I will use US05, i reckon its not as aggressive towards hop oils as notto is. I did sample it with only a week in the bottle to, so might me the malt extract hiding it a bit as well, it did taste very malty






kario said:


> Opinions on this point?
> 
> I'm about to put this one down......should I go with the US-05?


You could always try a good liquid yeast like Wyeast 1272 American Ale II, or 1056. They're both great yeasts that would suit this beer down to the ground, since trying liquid yeast I know I wont be touching us05 unless Im desperate. For a couple of extra dollars your beer will thank you with every sip.


----------



## muthead

Hi all,

So I have finally succomb to the masses and put this down tonight. My first fully temp controlled brew. Waiting on the wort to get down to 18 before pitching, however the question I have is regading the OG. I have just taken a sample and it is only 1044. I followed the recipe to the letter so not sure why the difference.

Will this be a major issue or will I just have a less alcoholic beer?

Cheers,
Mut


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## Matt89

muthead said:


> Hi all,
> 
> So I have finally succomb to the masses and put this down tonight. My first fully temp controlled brew. Waiting on the wort to get down to 18 before pitching, however the question I have is regading the OG. I have just taken a sample and it is only 1044. I followed the recipe to the letter so not sure why the difference.
> 
> Will this be a major issue or will I just have a less alcoholic beer?
> 
> Cheers,
> Mut



what did you use mate?


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## muthead

Matt89 said:


> what did you use mate?



2 x 1.5kg pale LME
500g Dextrose
200g steeped Heritage Crystal malt
20g centennial @ 30
40g amarillo @ 20
40g amarillo @ 10

Will be pitching rehydrated Notto yeast. Did 4 litre boil (biggest pot) with 750g LME, steeped crystal liquid and balance water.

I took the hydrometer sample straight away - should I maybe take another one now?

Thoughts?


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## J Grimmer

kario said:


> I bought the stuff to make this up, but only bought one sachet (11gms) of the Nottingham yeast.
> 
> The packet says usage rate 1g/L - so do I need a second pack?



You should be right with one packet, just make sure to least rehydrate it prior to pitching it would be better if you could make a starter and watch it take off like a rocket.


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## Neill

Regarding yeasts, I have always found that US-05 scrubs more hop flavour and aroma out than the notto? But I only did a few batches with US05 so my sample size is small.....


muthead; your hydrometer is probably a bit off, or the temp of the liquid you sampled was higher. Don't stress.


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## kario

Neill said:


> Regarding yeasts, I have always found that US-05 scrubs more hop flavour and aroma out than the notto? But I only did a few batches with US05 so my sample size is small.....
> 
> 
> muthead; your hydrometer is probably a bit off, or the temp of the liquid you sampled was higher. Don't stress.



Neill, what of the comments "notto scrubbed out the aroma/flavour pretty bad" and "You could always try a good liquid yeast like Wyeast 1272 American Ale II, or 1056"?

I've already got the Notto.....


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## Pistol

Put down one of these yesterday as one of my last extracts before going AG after the new year.

Made to 25L

3kg Muntons DLME, 560g dextrose, 30g Centennial 30 min, 45g Amarillo 20 min, 45g Amarillo at 10 min and used Nottingham.

OG 1056


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## Neill

Use the nottingham. There are 100g of fruity hops in there late in the boil. It won't be under hopped.


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## muthead

Hi Guys,

I'm started using Ian's spreadsheet, but what would I class this beer as where its asks for Beer Style? Would you say and Australian Pale Ale, APA? 

Also, what FG aiming for as a rule?

Assistance appreciated.

Mut


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## Matt89

Just letting everyone know I'm drinking this out of a keg ATM down at Phillip island and everyone loves it!


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## muthead

Hi all,

Really simple question - on IanH spreadsheet what beer style should this come under? I have it as an Australian Pale Ale for calculation purposes - does this sound right?

Cheers,
Mut


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## dmac91

I added 1kg of dextrose instead of 500g, other than making it more alcoholic, what will happen to it?


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## brewologist

BUMP!!!  

Hi All,

I made this one last night after reading the entire thread. This brew gets a great wrap off everyone who has brewed it so I thought I would give it a go.
I made some slight variations due to the ingredients I had lying around at the time.

Here is what it did with a 5 liter boil, 500g's of LME and the steeped grains.


1.5kg Amber LME
1kg Light DME
1kg Beer Enchancer (Brigalows :huh
250g CaraMalt (30mins @66c)

Hops:
20g Centennial 45mins
40g Amarillo 20mins
25g Amarillo 10min
10g Simcoe 10 mins

Irish Moss @ 10mins

Yeast:
US-05

OG: 1.060 approx.

Fermenting at 17/18c

How do you reckon this will turn out? Aiming for around 6% ABV


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## craigo

what is the boil size for this receipe and what do you put into the boil.


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## Filfy

Originally it was the following: 


2 x 1.5kg Coopers LME tins (pale)
500g Dextrose
20g Centennial @ 30 min
40g Amarillo @ 20 min
40g Amarillo @ 10 min

Total 31 IBU

OG 1058

Pitch Nottingham (would probably work well with US-05 too) and keep the temps under 20 degrees.

FG 1013

I just tasted one of these and this is one of the most awesome beers i've ever made. It is unbelievably fruity - the Centennial addition takes it to another level from an all-amarillo beer, which i have also done before. It's like someone has squeezed a passionfruit into your beer and then topped it up with watermelon or something. I'm no good at describing flavours but this is a cracker of a combination of hops. I urge all extract/KnB brewers out there to give this a go!

made up to 23 litres (standard batch volume) and for the boil i just used 6L with about 1/3 of one of the LME tins added (600g in 6L is about right for gravity to utilise the hops properly)


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## craigo

Would cascade hops work instead of centennial?


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## craigo

can i use light malt for this or does it have to be pale is there a difference?


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## Liam_snorkel

craigo said:


> Would cascade hops work instead of centennial?


it will work fine.



craigo said:


> can i use light malt for this or does it have to be pale is there a difference?


same shit.


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## jimmythehuman

No centennial at my LHBS so i used citra...probably nothing like centennial, but still made a nice beer


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## Filfy

Bottling 20 litres of this weekend. 
Tastes very nice, probabaly a little too hoppy, basicly because my hop AA% was slightly higher than originally required. 
Would make another batch and use approx 3/4 the amount of hops. 
Racked to secondary, and looks very clear. Should be a nice drop come the warmer months


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## MartsHomeBrew

Joshisgood said:


> Put this down 4 days ago, stuck to recipe + 200g light crystal. Sampled a little out of the fermenter today and it's awesome, smells amazing, tastes great can't wait till this ones ready. This is only my fourth brew and my first extract but judging by this I don't think I'll be going back to kits, cheers for the recipe Neill. Will post results in a few weeks


Wondering how you went with this brew, as I'm also up to my forth brew and want to give this one a go. The first three I made were kits for Cascade Pale Ale, Leffe Blonde Clone & Bavarian Wheat which tasted like Hoegaarden. they all involved dropping the goo straight into the fermenter, and boiling the powdered malt extract, hops etc to add later. Is it correct that the only difference with this recipe is that the two tins of goo go into the pot with hops etc for boiling in lieu of the powdered malt extract, or have I missed something? It could be a dumb question but having made a few errors with my first batch from not asking enough questions, better to be safe   
I've been going through this thread for a while and the more I read it the more I get thirsty. With both fermenters currently showing a vacancy, I might try two versions of this using some of the variations described throughout the thread.


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## IsonAd

Got this one in the fermenter as we speak. Added 180gm of crystal. Us05 yeast was a bit slow to start with, went strong for about a day now have minimal/ no action. Haven't checked gravity yet suspect it will be fine, but will keep an eye on it. Just wondering I'd you this recipe could be modified for an IPA? Plan on a small batch (11l) with 6l boil and adjusting extract and dex accordingly, add cent at 60 min and 30 min for bittering with similar hop sched for the rest. Adjusted to get about 60ibuS?


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## Rocker1986

I made this recipe as my first all extract brew when I moved away from kits, it was a bloody beautiful drop. Strangely I haven't ever bothered to make up an AG recipe similar to it .. might have a muck about with that one day.


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## Arch82

This recipe sounds awesome, I'll be collecting ingredients over the coming weeks and knocking this together when a fermenter free's up!


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## IsonAd

Righto so my gravity is down to about 1010. The og was off the charts when I started it which I thought at the time was due to inadequate mixing of wort and cooled water but it tasted odd from the fermenter, syrupy and sweet. The sample looked really thick and cloudy and the smell from fermenter was of very strong alcohol. Any ideas what this means? Contamination? Needs more time in fermenter?


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## JoeyJoeJoe

How long has it been in? More time is always better well as long as it isn't over 4 weeks so dont stress
Has the gravity stabilised? Take a sample in two days time if it is still 1010 is probably finished ,even more likely if your SG was more than 1060
Did you taste your 1010 sample was it still sweet or had the hops taken over? It shouldn't taste sweet anymore? If is does a dry hop can hide it a bit.

I doubt there is an infection though you would smell/taste it straight away (if you took the lid off)


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## IsonAd

Thanks for the reply joeyjoejoe. It's been fermenting for 17days. Took another sample this morning and it's still 1010. The sample still tasted a little sweet, a but like off orange juice with a bit of passionfruit as well. I thought I got some fizz from it too but I think it was more bitterness on my tongue than any carbonation. I'll probably dry hop it in a day or two and bottle in about 5 days. What do ya reckon? I expected really hoppy smells from this one going by the thread but not getting much so far.


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## Mall

About to do this:

Coopers LME 1.5kg
Coopers Wheat ME 1.5kg
Crystal Medium 120 200g
Dextrose .5Kg
- 30g Centennial @30
- 30g Centennial @20
- 30g Centennial @10

OG 1.057
FG 1.012
IBU 63.7
Alc% 5.9

Has anyone done similar? I have Neills original in FV (2 weeks) ready to keg on weekend. Sample from hydrometer test was deliciious!!


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## IsonAd

Hi mall. I've done a single hop pale ale with light and wheat lme. It was a stone and wood pacific ale clone. So used galaxy hops with same hop sched but using kess hops, 10, 15, 20gms I think. Can't remember if the recipe was from here or another site. I did half without dry hip and half with 17gm (11l). The dry hopped version was better. While it tastes very close to the original a bit more body would improve it so the crystal is a good touch but I'd consider reducing it by about 1/4. Also recommend the dry hop. The single hope pales to my mind are about showcasing the hop so you can't go wrong with a dry hop in these beers. Interested to hear how you go


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## lukasfab

haha Im going to do this on the weekend

I have only ever done all grain from the get go so will be interesting to see how this turns out

is there a difference in dried and liquid malt?

was going to just use one can of light and one dark dreid malt extract, this will be 9.1SRM so well with in APA

*extract APA* (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.059 (°P): 14.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 6.07 %
Colour (SRM): 9.1 (EBC): 17.9
Bitterness (IBU): 41.6 (Average)

39.47% Dry Malt Extract - Dark
39.47% Dry Malt Extract - Light
13.16% Dextrose
7.89% Carapils (Dextrine)

0.9 g/L Centennial (12.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
1.3 g/L Amarillo (8.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
1.3 g/L Amarillo (8.6% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 30 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## joshF

Made this recipe 2 weeks back and really wasn't impressed with the notto at all. Has the same typical tart, tangy flavour from the last three times ive used it. Perhaps its my personal palate/taste preference thing, but the Notto really doesn't do the hops justice in this beer in my opinion. Great for dark or malt driven beers but for a fruity style ale??? Not in my opinion. The nature of the yeast and the dry flavour profile really seems to conflict with fruitier, hop driven kind of beers (and for the haters, this is just an opinion)

For this particular recipe, has anyone else had similar experiences when using Nottingham for this beer or tips to get a cleaner flavour profile from it??? Smells absolutely gorgeous until you take a sip and then get that lingering really dry tang. Still quite drinkable but not what i'd call a crowd pleaser.


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## IsonAd

I just tasted mine tonight - not all that impressed really but I think something went wrong along the line somewhere, I was expecting some pretty hoppy smells from the fermenter and didn't really get it. It may get better with age but at the moment it tasted ok but a slight taste of off orange juice - also had a syrupy / wine like mouth feel to it. I should also say that I steeped 180g or crystal which could be the culprit too. This is my first time using amarillo so could also be that it's just not what I was expecting, I dry hopped half the batch with Zythos so will see how that goes as well and report back.


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## Judanero

I did a version of this the other week:

2 x cans of morgans lager light malt extract
400g Dextrose
100g LDME
20g Green bullet @ 30
40g Amarillo @ 20
40g Amarillo @ 10

Us-05 yeast

Fermenting at the moment.. will report back


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## Blazar

[SIZE=medium]Will be putting this down next week (after pay day!!), however I cannot get a hold of any Amarillo. LHBS has suggested Citra plus the Centennial, any thoughts on this?[/SIZE]


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## Tahoose

Made a batch of this as per the original recipe yesterday, except I made it up to 27 Ltrs not 23.

This gave me a OG of 1047, so by the time it's bottled and bulk primed, I recon it should be around the mid 4% abv, nice thirst quencher ready for summer...


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## Tahoose

Ok so this finished at 1012 and I bottled with about 6g per litre with a bulk prime, just had a first taste after 2 weeks in the bottle and very impressed. 

Ended up around the 4.9% ABV Mark 

Have made 4 kit/toucan beers prior to this and this is my first all extract, really happy with how this came out


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## Arch82

Just put the following down, my first go at extract.

2x Morgans Unhopped Extra Pale
Rehydrate US05 yeast
Light Crystal 60 0.2 kg
Centennial 10 g 30 Mins 
Amarillo 20 g 20 Mins 
Amarillo 20 g 10 Mins 
Dextrose 0.5 kg 
Predicted OG 1.049 IBU 29.1 FG 1.010 EBC 8.0 %alc Keg 5.2 Bottle 5.6
I halved the hop additions to get the bitterness down... not quite the hop junkie just yet.

Fermenting at 18deg


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## Arch82

Arch82 said:


> Just put the following down, my first go at extract.
> 
> 2x Morgans Unhopped Extra Pale
> Rehydrate US05 yeast
> Light Crystal 60 0.2 kg
> Centennial 10 g 30 Mins
> Amarillo 20 g 20 Mins
> Amarillo 20 g 10 Mins
> Dextrose 0.5 kg
> Predicted OG 1.049 IBU 29.1 FG 1.010 EBC 8.0 %alc Keg 5.2 Bottle 5.6
> I halved the hop additions to get the bitterness down... not quite the hop junkie just yet.
> 
> Fermenting at 18deg


Hey Guys,

I'm a little concerned about this one and need some advice.

I realised this morning after reading through the thread that i had "HCF" turned off in the spreadsheet and i only did a 3 litre boil.
I've since turned it on and and due to the low IBU decided to do a another identical boil and added another 500g of dextrose as my brew is now closer to 27L after adding ice to cool it before adding.
I'm sure this is all OK to do?

My main concern is i rehydrated yeast for the first time by boiling water, cooling it to 30deg then adding the yeast and a sprinkle of dextrose. i left this for 30 min while i did my boil.
When i went to add the additional boil this morning the yeast looked like it had settled in the fermenter with no signs of fermentation yet... no foaming or CO2 smell.

Should i just leave it a couple more days and if it hasn't started by then should i buy another US-05 and add it?

Any input appreciated, cheers!


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## wombil

Hey Guys,
Had a birthday on Saturday and a kind soul presented me with a pack of Coopers Brew enhancer N0.2.
Been wondering what to do with this as I normally brew A G by BIAB and was looking at Neils recipe and came up with the following recipe.BE2 is not listed in Brewmate so I guessed the malt and added a bit .
Neils hop schedule gave me an IBU of 51 in Brewmate so I lightened it up a bit to get to 31 IBU.
Maybe I'll sub simcoe or magnum for the Centennial as I have this on hand.
Anyhow here it is.Never done a extract before so any opinions thankfully received.


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## Arch82

Just bottled this recipe and it already looks, smells and tastes delicious!! 

Cheers Neill!!


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## jkhlt1210

Arch82 said:


> Just bottled this recipe and it already looks, smells and tastes delicious!!
> 
> Cheers Neill!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1392221121.442512.jpg


looks bloody good!


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## Judanero

Judanero said:


> I did a version of this the other week:
> 
> 2 x cans of morgans lager light malt extract
> 400g Dextrose
> 100g LDME
> 20g Green bullet @ 30
> 40g Amarillo @ 20
> 40g Amarillo @ 10
> 
> Us-05 yeast
> 
> Fermenting at the moment.. will report back


Not a BAD drop, not that good either.. had a kind of sweet, very mild 'twang' to it that I'm not entirely sure but think came from just using extract?

If I were to repeat this I'd use 500g LDME, swap the Green bullet for Magnum, swap the 10 min Amarillo addition for Cascade and steep some grain in there (Carapils).


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