# Old Speckled Hen-target Water Profile



## dalpets (4/12/10)

Hi everyone,

I've just started trying to unravel how Promash (v 1.8.a) works. In particular its asking me what target water profile I want to use for OSH. This seems to be a pretty onerous task for everything I brew from now on. Can someone give me some insights into determing TW profiles for different brews.

Thanks


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## manticle (4/12/10)

I'm far from expert on water chem but my understanding is:

Use the water profile you have. eg - if you use melbourne water, add melbourne water valuse - of particular interest are calcium, sulphate and magnesium levels and to a lesser degree sodium. Water hardness is also a major factor.

Then add desired grains/sugars etc, work out likely pH (of the mash, not the water) then adjust so that the pH is in balance (5.2-5.4) and to get the chloride/sulphate ratio on the side you want - sulphate pushing hops and chloride pushing malt.

To summarise - it is the total mash pH and profile that is important and what should be tweaked, rather than the water.


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## dalpets (4/12/10)

I just pulled this thread from another brewing forum. It seems the English ale target profile my be the way to go. What do you think?

Burton Pale Ale -- A toned-down, "idealized" profile. Enough sulphate to bring out the hops without overdoing it. Low alkalinity helps ensure proper mash pH. Model: Moshers 'Ideal Pale Ale". Ca=111, SO4=337, Mg=18, Na=35, Cl=32, CO3=38, Hardness=352, Alkalinity=31.

English Ale -- More or less a London water profile. Model: A. J. deLange's "Ale" from HBD1965. Ca=52, SO4=65, Mg=10, Na=6.2, Cl=9.6, CO3=63, Hardness=173, Alkalinity=106.

Light Lager -- Very small amounts of ions; just enough to acidify the mash. Model: Mosher's "Ideal Pale Lager". Ca=21, SO4=21, Mg=5.2, Na=18, Cl=16, CO3=51, Hardness=74, Alkalinity=69.

Medium Lager -- Malty, amber lagers like Oktoberfest. Loosely based on Papazian's Munich. Ca=74, SO4=21, Mg=5.2, Na=10, Cl=16, CO3=111, Hardness=207, Alkalinity=185.

Dark Lagers -- Bocks, for example. Model: Mosher's "Ideal Mild Ale / Dark Lager". Ca=73, SO4=125, Mg=13, Na=52, Cl=80, CO3=63, Hardness=236, Alkalinity=106.


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## dalpets (4/12/10)

manticle said:


> I'm far from expert on water chem but my understanding is:
> 
> Use the water profile you have. eg - if you use melbourne water, add melbourne water valuse - of particular interest are calcium, sulphate and magnesium levels and to a lesser degree sodium. Water hardness is also a major factor.
> 
> ...




Your comments are very interesting coming from an experienced brewer and it seems your approach is very practical and easier than the Promash water profiling. Having said that it seems to negate what Promash stands for, so it leaves me in a bit of a quandry as to whether I should bother with Promash at all. I think what you are saying is that the software over complicates the issue at hand and as such is unecessary.

Thanks for your input.

Cheers
dalpets


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## manticle (5/12/10)

There are different approaches. My understanding of the current thinking is that basing your brewing on specific water profiles is useless as while big breweries may once have brewed using what was at hand, most will now tailor their water with salts or acids or acidulated malts.

Even breweries who adhere to certain laws (like barvarian purity law) will use things ike acidulated malt or acid rests to get their mash pH where they want them. Burton water is full of things you generally don't want in your beer so adding stuff to make it like burton water seems counter intuitive.


I can't comment on promash as I've never used it and I'm certainly not the go to guy on water chemistry. I'm just coming to grips with it myself but almost everything I read suggests forget the water in and of itself, and tailor the mash to the right pH and profile you want for the brew you're making.

try ez water calculator for a start - http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/


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## drsmurto (5/12/10)

Hi Dalpets

You seem to be going all out to complicate your 1st AG, are you an engineer?

Adelaide tap water is fine for use in brewing and most of the brewers here use it. Ask those who have been brewing AG in this state for several years and thats what they use.

I started out using tap water but have switched to rainwater this year (after 2 years of using tap water) and adjust the water depending on style. I did this more to start learning how the salts affect the beer once i was happy with how my beer was turning out.

I suggest starting off with tap water. Spend your time getting your system worked out first (water volumes required, losses, evaporation rates) etc before you start down the road of water chemistry. 

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## manticle (5/12/10)

DrSmurto said:


> I suggest starting off with tap water.



Actually much better advice than mine. Start with what you have and adjust it, if and when you know it's not working for you as you'd like. Don't think you need to make your beer perfect the first time.

I've done loads of AG brews now and adding brewing salts is something I've only started playing with recently. I'm still working it out and I still made beer before I tried. Each one is a learning experience for the next.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Hi Dalpets
> 
> You seem to be going all out to complicate your 1st AG, are you an engineer?
> 
> ...



No I'm not, mate!, What is complicated or otherwise is in the eyes (or brain) of the beholder. My philosphy is that a problem is only a problem if you think its a problem and that cutting corners is to be going around in circles. 

That's who I am, if you can accept that!.

Having said that I'm not the sort of person who wants to o bore you and others with exploring every convolution of a duck's arse. There are limits for sanitiy sake and in the cause of moderation. I'll leave the extremities to the mad scientist.!

So, I want to distance myself from the dump & run approach to brewing, knowing that there is invariably a better way. It has been said that there are thousands of plastic fermenters lying around gathering dust in people's garages in Australia. That, indeed,tells a story.

i don't think one should necessarily have to be an enginner to understand basic water chemistry. 

What surprises me is that no one in this thread has spoken out in favour of brewing software. Surely it's not the holy grail or rocket science.
Does itt mean no one is using them or do people shy away from something they believe is too complicated. At the same time I can understand those who would say " I shoudn't have to learn water chemistry to brew.

Any how this rant is to give some idea of who I am, gtiven the impersonal nature of the internet and in the interests of friendly discourse & understanding..

All I am looking for here is a reasonable mentor on the subject. Here's hoping!

Happy brewing Dr Smurto
& Cheers
dalpets


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## manticle (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> What surprises me is that no one in this thread has spoken out in favour of brewing software. Surely it's not the holy grail or rocket science.
> Does itt mean no one is using them or do people shy away from something they believe is too complicated. At the same time I can understand those who would say " I shoudn't have to learn water chemistry to brew.



If you want to read up about water chemistry, you'll find plenty of references. Start with palmer. You'll find that it supports my initial suggestion that mash pH is more important than water pH.

I think what the Doc is suggesting is not 'dump and run' but work out each step so that when things go wrong or right, you can fix/eliminate more easily. It's quite a scientific approach rather than a 'stick it in the too hard basket' approach.

By all means get involved in understanding water chemistry - plenty of informatioon around. Nothing wrong with understanding, through experience, the difference it actually makes though. If you change everything about your process at once and nothing goes right, how will you know which step to fix?


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## bum (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> All I am looking for here is a reasonable mentor on the subject.


Funny thing is you've probably found one but are unwilling to listen due to your beginning position being intractable. DrS's advice is sound and _reasonable_.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> Funny thing is you've probably found one but are unwilling to listen due to your beginning position being intractable. DrS's advice is sound and _reasonable_.



Intractable! Never!. Unfortunately You jump to a hasty short hand Internet opinion of me. You just don't know me. Likewise I don't really know you or Dr Smurto. So, a cache of opinions is always desirable in technical areas such as this . As you well know you don't always hang your hat on one opinion, particularly on the Internet.

Having said that AHB is a great forum, with a diversity of views but the last thing I want to get into is ego infighting based on the number of barrels. My aim is for friendly relationships with all on these forums..

This week has reinforced my view, with the loss of a dear friend, that so many things fade into insignificance at such times.

Sincerely
dalpets


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## felten (5/12/10)

Brewing software is the ducks nuts, it's a steep learning curve though and no one can tell you how you have to adapt it to your system over the forums, its really something you just have to keep using until you figure it out.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

felten said:


> Brewing software is the ducks nuts, it's a steep learning curve though and no one can tell you how you have to adapt it to your system over the forums, its really something you just have to keep using until you figure it out.



Thanks mate, I value your point of view.

Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

manticle said:


> I think what the Doc is suggesting is not 'dump and run' but work out each step so that when things go wrong or right, you can fix/eliminate more easily. It's quite a scientific approach rather than a 'stick it in the too hard basket' approach.
> 
> By all means get involved in understanding water chemistry - plenty of informatioon around. Nothing wrong with understanding, through experience, the difference it actually makes though. If you change everything about your process at once and nothing goes right, how will you know which step to fix?



Thanks Manticle. What you say makes very good sense,
For the record I was not saying that Dr Smurto was advocating "dump & run"-far from it. I was just alluding to one extremity of brewing know how & as a point from which to do better brews. Damn the internet for misunderstandings such as this!

Dr Smurto seems to have respected points of view & knowledge that should be listened to and I acknowledge that.

Cheers
dalpets


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## np1962 (5/12/10)

dalpets,
I use Beersmith and am quite happy with it.
I don't use it to it's fullest capacity but I do brew good beer IMHO.
If I were to give you some advice, which I guess I am about to, it would be to get your process correct with your system over the course of several brews without worrying about too many technical aspects.
Once you are comfortable with your system start looking at what tweaks you can make to make better beer, increase efficiency, bring out the hop or malt flavours of your beer and many other aspects of brewing.
I have only recently looked at adjusting my water. I wanted a profile suited to a lager I was brewing. Used Beersmiths water profiler for the first time and combined mains and rain water 30:70 and brewed a nice beer.
Any better than if I had used straight mains water? Maybe, maybe not. 
Would I of bothered with this in my first 25 AG brews? No! I just wanted to brew beer that I and others could drink. 
Will I adjust my water in the future? Sometimes, but not for every beer I brew.
All these decisions are personal as is yours to take the time and make the effort to research this for your first AG beer.
I hope it makes your beer better, but how will you know if you've never brewed it without going to the trouble of adjustments?
Have fun doing it your way, maybe you can get along to one of the meet ups in Adelaide sometime and taste some of the great beers being brewed here by some really good brewers.
Cheers
Nige


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

NigeP62 said:


> dalpets,
> I use Beersmith and am quite happy with it.
> I don't use it to it's fullest capacity but I do brew good beer IMHO.
> If I were to give you some advice, which I guess I am about to, it would be to get your process correct with your system over the course of several brews without worrying about too many technical aspects.
> ...



Nige,

Thanks for your insights & advice which mirrors what other have said on this thread. I will heed this advice & move forward with a more measured approach. The problem is that I am a technocrat at heart & want instantaneous results. I'm not a young bloke so I have limited time to get there, you see . I figure if you were at Cape Canaveral this approach would be mandatory (you don't get a second chance there)- but brewing is not rocket science, is it?.

I must admit that I came up with a start to find that experienced brewers on these forums seem to be using tap water as a basis for their brews. The last time I looked Adelaide had the worst water in the nation! I thought they used a more scientific/technical standard than that. But heck, if you can make good beer with it then why not1

. Probably I'm using a broad brush with the above characterization given what brewers probably do from there.-addition of salts etc. Probably, Dr Smurto was right in his comment of over complication at the point of the 1st AG but less & less a complication with time & experience.

I was considering buying a RO filter but in light of above I think I will leave that in abeyance until I'm on my feet, so to speak,

BTW I would like to attend one of the Adelaide meeet ups

Thanks for your time & cheers
dalpets.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Hi Dalpets
> 
> You seem to be going all out to complicate your 1st AG, are you an engineer?
> 
> ...




Tap water it is for the time being, At least filtered tap water.

I sorry to hear you don't like engineers, They're debatedly more intelligent than the general population but they have personality quirks just like the rest of us. Don't hold that against them. Did you have a less than favourable experience with them at some time?
I've worked with them & found them OK, certainly not supercilous about their degree qualifications, Their not tradesmen but professionals & naturally that will come across.as a different level of expertise, so I'm not prejudiced against them as a profession.

Cheers
dalpets


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## bum (5/12/10)

Cool story, dalpets.


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## goomboogo (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Tap water it is for the time being, At least filtered tap water.
> 
> I sorry to hear you don't like engineers, They're debatedly more intelligent than the general population



You are correct. It's very debatable.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

goomboogo said:


> You are correct. It's very debatable.



Well; I base that on the fact that only 2% of the population are capable of achieving scores to enter university.
I expect I would not be one of them.

Cheers
dalpets


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## bum (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Well; I base that on the fact that only 2% of the population are capable of achieving scores to enter university.


  WTF?


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## goomboogo (5/12/10)

bum said:


> WTF?



How does it feel Bum? You are in the top 2%. By the way, congratulations and good luck for next year.


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## bum (5/12/10)

Thanks, goomboogo. But in all fairness to that completely accurate and not at all made up "fact" - as a mature age (but not behaved) student, no score was taken into consideration for my application.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> WTF?



Would you care to elaborate? Have I hit a sore spot? sorry if that's the case.


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## bum (5/12/10)

Yes, you have hit a sore spot. A real bugbear of mine is reading absolute bullshit.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> Yes, you have hit a sore spot. A real bugbear of mine is reading absolute bullshit.




Ah! so now I'm really getting to know you!
I hope your not going to make an enemy of me for trangressing your perception of me based on one statement.
At 72yrs I have learnt that tolerance is important to making a contribution; wherever.


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## bum (5/12/10)

Ignorance seems to be right up there as well.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> Ignorance seems to be right up there as well.



Elaborate please!


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## np1962 (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Tap water it is for the time being, At least filtered tap water.
> 
> I sorry to hear you don't like engineers, They're debatedly more intelligent than the general population but they have personality quirks just like the rest of us. Don't hold that against them. Did you have a less than favourable experience with them at some time?
> I've worked with them & found them OK, certainly not supercilous about their degree qualifications, Their not tradesmen but professionals & naturally that will come across.as a different level of expertise, so I'm not prejudiced against them as a profession.
> ...


 :lol: Come to an Adelaide meet up and you can meet up with allsorts of people, not the least is Raven19, our favourite engineer, along with DrSmurto, who is really a Dr, Quantumbrewer, who is really a Mad Scientist  butters, a box welder and a few more of us dwarfs. Most with a sense of humour and ALL willing to help fellow brewers with whatever we are able.
Cheers
Nige


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## bum (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Elaborate please!


I choose to refrain from doing so as I've already made things too personal for no reason other than my own annoyance. My apologies go out to anyone who has had the misfortune to read my contribution (such as it is).

Good luck with the brew and I will continue to read this thread (and the previous one) you made about this beer with interest (admittedly out of self-interest).


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> I choose to refrain from doing so as I've already made things too personal for no reason other than my own annoyance. My apologies go out to anyone who has had the misfortune to read my contribution (such as it is).
> 
> Good luck with the brew and I will continue to read this thread (and the previous one) you made about this beer with interest (admittedly out of self-interest).



bum,

Thanks for that.
I look forward to a cordial online relationship with you in the future.

All the best at university & otherwise

Cheers
dalpets


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## bum (5/12/10)

dalpets said:


> I look forward to a cordial online relationship with you in the future.


Given time you will find that this is unlikely but I'll see what I can do.  



dalpets said:


> All the best at university & otherwise


Thank you and you have my best wishes (regardless of the tone of future posts on my behalf).


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## Georgedgerton (5/12/10)

As Charlie Papazian said "RELAX -- DON'T WORRY, HAVE A HOMEBREW"

Been brewing for 41 years and sometimes Bullshit really does baffles Brains. Don't get me wrong a lot of great knowledge has pushed the humble brewer a long way over the years, but don't get too hung up on some of the TECHNO-TROUSERS of brewing, as many of the best drops ever brewed have had very limited knowledge behind them.

Use knowledge to the best advantage, but it's a long way between a water profile and a good bottle of beer.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> Given time you will find that this is unlikely but I'll see what I can do.
> 
> 
> Thank you and you have my best wishes (regardless of the tone of future posts on my behalf).



Maybe in that event I should ask that you don't respond to any of my posts given that you harbor such dislike for me.

best wishes dalpets


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## bum (5/12/10)

Bruce2 said:


> TECHNO-TROUSERS


So, if anyone is lurking but is contemplating registering now is your opportunity to take this awesome username for yourself...



dalpets said:


> Maybe in that event I should ask that you don't respond to any of my posts given that you harbor such dislike for me.


My comments were (pretty clearly, I'd have thought) more about me than you.

Also, history teaches us that such requests fall on deaf ears.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> So, if anyone is lurking but is contemplating registering now is your opportunity to take this awesome username for yourself...
> 
> 
> My comments were (pretty clearly, I'd have thought) more about me than you.
> ...



Consummatum est.
in the case of 9 barrels (captain) v 3 barrels (corporal)


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## bum (5/12/10)

The barrels really only reflect the amount of spare time a person has, dalpets.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> The barrels really only reflect the amount of spare time a person has, dalpets.


Hey. I'm retired,bum, but I've only got 3 barrels. Maybe I'm not drinking enough brews.


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## bum (5/12/10)

Well, that is a sorry state of affairs and you should know better at your age!

Now that you've identified the problem we can all work towards helping you rectify that situation. Bottoms up.


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

bum said:


> Well, that is a sorry state of affairs and you should know better at your age!



At my age, unfortunately, one can't consume what one used to in the heyday of youth. A beer gut grows exponentionally as the years pass and for most of us olds ones health takes on a premium status. God forbid, though, that I should need to resign myself to gluten free or organic beers, Actually I've never tried them so I can't speak from experience. If they are like other things that are good for you their probably sub-par taste wise . 

My outlook is you only come this way once and, within reason, why not enjoy it, and you won't to die wondering,


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

goomboogo said:


> How does it feel Bum? You are in the top 2%. By the way, congratulations and good luck for next year.




goomboogo,
Maybe I could get in then as a mature age student even though I don't count myself in the top 2%. If a 90 yr old can graduate in medicine, as happened recently, there is hope for many mature age aspirants in the general population.


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## manticle (5/12/10)

'Tis for thee that I brew this! 

Oh! woe is the tun for 'tis for the mash

And yet the pH of the thing that 'tis but a grist!

Upon the moon and yet; such a dark grain is my fortune!


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## dalpets (5/12/10)

Bruce2 said:


> As Charlie Papazian said "RELAX -- DON'T WORRY, HAVE A HOMEBREW"
> 
> 
> Use knowledge to the best advantage, but it's a long way between a water profile and a good bottle of beer.



Well said! But if the technology is there and it works for you, I say go for it. I don't think it's necessarily valid to say we should regress to brew like the artisans of centuries past. Some would say "keep it simple stupid" but that seems to be very much a generalized statement of attitude in what is a very complex world of options.

Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (6/12/10)

"TECHNO-TROUSERS"

Guess who this sarcastic barb is aimed at?. 

A completely unecessary and immature dispersion cast by a senior member of this list who should no better. Surely the more senior one is on the list does not give that person the right to intimidate less senior posters on the forum who probably, unwisely, have tendered information about themselves in a vein of sincerity. Perhaps this is the reason why some seasoned posters choose to provide scant information about themselves in their profiles and to exist in a virtual vacuum. A pity that, but seemingly just a sign of the internet paradgim of cautious anonymity, I'm afraid.


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## dalpets (6/12/10)

manticle said:


> 'Tis for thee that I brew this!
> 
> Oh! woe is the tun for 'tis for the mash
> 
> ...


 Aha! we have a poet amongst us and I thought I was off topic-well sort of!

I won't pretend to understand the poem, the virtual ignoramus of verse that I am. It never was my forte, but I applaud those who see into its deeper nuances. Nevertheless, its a breath of fresh air in what has become a stifling atmosphere latterly on this thread. Could you enllighten a prosaic individual on its deeper meaning. I hope it's not a malignant statement. If it is kindly don't bother to reply as I don't need more bashing around the head.

best wishes
dalpets


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## mje1980 (6/12/10)

Try www.beertools. Very simple program, very user friendly. I've been using it for years. I find the other programs waaaaaay too much info for me ( though im one of the 98th percentile ).


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## bum (6/12/10)

This thread reminds me of the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...


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## manticle (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Aha! we have a poet amongst us and I thought I was off topic-well sort of!
> 
> I won't pretend to understand the poem, the virtual ignoramus of verse that I am. It never was my forte, but I applaud those who see into its deeper nuances. Nevertheless, its a breath of fresh air in what has become a stifling atmosphere latterly on this thread. Could you enllighten a prosaic individual on its deeper meaning. I hope it's not a malignant statement. If it is kindly don't bother to reply as I don't need more bashing around the head.
> 
> ...



Neither malignant nor meaningful. Just an attempt to pull the thread away from unnecessary internet hostilities.

read the links here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showarticle=124

and this chapter from Palmer: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html 

You can download a spreadsheet from the palmer page (metric or imerial) which will enable you to balance your water with the appropriate salts. If you're really keen to match a specific water profile (which I would personally avoid - match your profile to the beer instead) you'll be able to find the target profiles easily enough.


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## drsmurto (6/12/10)

Yikes!

My apologies Dalpets, i wasn't taking a dig at you or suggesting you take the simple 'dump' option. AG brewing can be quite complex and it can be quite simple.

My post can be summed up with this - you need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

If you come along to a local brewers gathering you will meet a wide variety of people, young to not so young, all walks of life and with a wide variety of brewing experience and brew rigs. All are welcome, even engineers.

As for the crux of this thread, the water profile, don't be fooled by the urban myth that Adelaide's water supply is the worst in the nation. It's fine for brewing a broad range of styles. If you want to adjust it then you can and if you want more information on water chemistry feel free to ask or better still, have a read through this chapter of John Palmers 'How to Brew' - Link. Better yet, read all of section 3 - Brewing Your First All Grain Beer - Link

Good luck with your first AG. As with others i would recommend Beersmith for formulating your recipe and working out the amount of water you need, the temperature of the water to mash in with and the evaporation rates etc

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. i don't have a problem with engineers, it's just a bit of friendly banter between myself (a scientist) and the engineers.


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## dalpets (6/12/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Yikes!
> 
> 
> Cheers
> ...



Damn the internet for these misunderstandings! I guess if we had to spell everything out in our posts/emails we would end up with paralysis by analysis in our editing..

Face to face is the way to go eh!- the grin, the tongue in cheek, the frown, the bulging jugular of anger. With that nstantaneou feedback we can readily continue or desist. Too bad if you don't like me on sight though!

One of the concerns about the internet is we hear anecdotally that younger folk today tend to prefer faceless contact than personal interaction. That, indeed, is a worry for society at large.

Thanks for your responses
Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> This thread reminds me of the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...



This is gobbledygook!
Where is the context?


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## manticle (6/12/10)

He's having a good natured dig at your rather elaborate way of typing.

I believe it's a quote from Grandpa Simpson from the Simpsons telling a longwinded and possibly pointless story.

Relax, have a homebrew and don't take bum too personally.


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## Mattese (6/12/10)

bum said:


> This thread reminds me of the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...




Now if it had been the white ones, everything would make sense. The big yellow ones sort of through the story a bit sideways, but I guess the gist is the same...


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

manticle said:


> Neither malignant nor meaningful. Just an attempt to pull the thread away from unnecessary internet hostilities.
> 
> read the links here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showarticle=124
> 
> ...



You are a refreshing peacemaker. An even handaded individual.

All the best dalpets


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

manticle said:


> Relax, have a homebrew and don't take bum too personally.


+1


----------



## drsmurto (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Damn the internet for these misunderstandings! I guess if we had to spell everything out in our posts/emails we would end up with paralysis by analysis in our editing..
> 
> Face to face is the way to go eh!- the grin, the tongue in cheek, the frown, the bulging jugular of anger. With that nstantaneou feedback we can readily continue or desist. Too bad if you don't like me on sight though!
> 
> ...



I'll assume given you are going to brew an OSH clone as your first AG that you are a fan of english ales.

There is likely to be a real ale day sometime in the new year and my beer engine (Link) makes an appearance at the case swaps. :beer:


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

manticle said:


> He's having a good natured dig at your rather elaborate way of typing.
> 
> I believe it's a quote from Grandpa Simpson from the Simpsons telling a longwinded and possibly pointless story.
> 
> Relax, have a homebrew and don't take bum too personally.



I'm not a real fan of the Simpsons. Sure some of it is funny and characterizes the weakness of human nature but I just find in the main the American thread of sarcasm a little hard to take.

I understand the judgement about my style, That's me, if you all can live with it. If we were all the same it would be a pretty boring world.! This thread is evidence of that, but I'm not in the game of the me and them mentality. That's why there are so many ideological wars.

I'm afraid it's too late in the day for me to take up internet jargoneese or text messaging cryptology, Not that I would want to just for the sake of being trendy.-rather it is important for me to communicate crisply. It seems that I am forever justifying myself on this forum

You are correct let's relax and enjoy each other's company.

Cheers
dalpets


----------



## schooey (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Their not tradesmen but professionals...



..and then there are those of us who are tradesmen _*and*_ professionals...

but back to the OP...

There is a handy little calculator here that will calculate mineral additions you need to make to match a desired water profile. All you need to know is what your current water source profile is, and enter it in. Fiddle with additions to match the profile you are after. 

The thing I have found is that you have to be careful in finding water profiles in the first place; some I have found on the net for different beers have been way out of balance and contradictory. It's been a very much 'suck it and see' process for me...


----------



## manticle (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> It seems that I am forever justifying myself on this forum



You don't need to



> You are correct let's relax and enjoy each other's company.
> 
> Cheers
> dalpets



Absolutely.

Is the water chem thing making sense yet?

I think absolutely the best thing you can do is to take Dr Smurto up on his offer. If I brewed in Adelaide, I'd jump at it.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> +1



I'm getting to know you a little better, 

I'm not an old "fuddy duddy" or thin skinned as you may perceive but please take note that what is often said in jest is just an excuse for veiled sarcasm or to gain status in the group beholden to you, at other people's expense..


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

manticle said:


> You don't need to
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> ...



Not yet mate! I will get down to studying it in depth in the short term, particulary Palmer's take on the subject. 
Regards the offer I'm not sure any more. If they find out who I am they might throw me i a vat. What a way to go.


----------



## haysie (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> If they find out who I am they might throw me i a vat. What a way to go.




Me thinks someone is taking the piss :lol:


----------



## Brad Churchill (6/12/10)

Must admit this thread has given me a few chuckles.
I had been brewing for years before I tackled my first allgrain.
I decided to keep it simple at first and concentrate on just a few of what I cosidered to be the important factors.
A mash temp. of around 67C. Boil time of an hour. Fermentation temp of around 20C.
Other than that I had hot Wort splashing into the boiler from my crudely made lauter tunn setup (two plastic buckets one inside the other with holes drilled in the top one and a piece of plastic tube running from the bottom one to the boiler with no valve!
What was the end result.
It was my first allgrain brew and it was also the best beer I had made up until that time.

If you grab a basic recipe and get the basics right to start with you should have yourself a great beer to start with and even more incentive to then refine your technic.

My 2 cents worth anyway....

Good luck 
Brad


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> I'm getting to know you a little better,
> 
> I'm not an old "fuddy duddy" or thin skinned as you may perceive but please take note that what is often said in jest is just an excuse for veiled sarcasm or to gain status in the group beholden to you, at other people's expense..


I assure you that my sarcasm is rarely veiled and I most certainly would not consider this group "beholden" to me in any way shape or form.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

haysie said:


> Me thinks someone is taking the piss :lol:



No!, again, may I say, another hasty internet type misjudgement. How quickly people are to condemn!

It was simply meant that I probably wouldn't be welcome in light of this thread. People bond together in curious ways. It was more about me than others.I have become a pariah simply becaue I didn't join the tall poppy brigade, in that I supported the professional. I am not & have never been a professional but I detest the mentality of canning them just because they have a professional education, Dr Smurto is excepted in this categorization.

I hope this clears up the misconception.

Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> I assure you that my sarcasm is rarely veiled and I most certainly would not consider this group "beholden" to me in any way shape or form.



So you say, but I've been on too many forums in my time not to know a self appointed power broker when I see one.


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## manticle (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> It was simply meant that I probably wouldn't be welcome in light of this thread. People bond together in curious ways. It was more about me than others.I have become a pariah simply becaue I didn't join the tall poppy brigade, in that I supported the professional. I am not & have never been a professional but I detest the mentality of canning them just because they have a professional education, Dr Smurto is excepted in this categorization.




Mate, brewers, in general are the most friendly bunch of people you'll hope to meet. The only thing that unites them is their love of beer and brewing so all types of people are attracted to it.

Get along to the brew meet, introduce yourself to the people there, drink some great brew and offer some of your own and that's all you need to fit into the group.

I'm a mildly socially awkward 35 yr old male postgraduate student who like art, very strange music and collecting dead animals (I draw them) and children's shoes. If I can get along to various brew meet ups and talk endless brew related shit to IT guys, electricians, Engineering students, boilermakers, retirees or whoever else will listen then anyone can - including you.

Don't take it all too seriously - brewing and beer is what it all comes down to. Food also fits in there somewhere.


----------



## Tilt (6/12/10)

Reading this thread is great sport - keep it going fellas!
A useful read on water chemistry can be found here Mad Fermentationist- I use it to understand what I'm trying to achieve and which additions will get me there.
Then I use the calcs spreadsheet on the aforementioned EZ Water site.
BTW - I do miss the sweet tang of chlorine, the Murray River brown hue and the 40 degree temperature of the summertime Adelaide water I grew up with! Thanks for jogging the memory.


----------



## Mattese (6/12/10)

Why can't we all just get along??!!???


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

Brad C said:


> Must admit this thread has given me a few chuckles.
> I had been brewing for years before I tackled my first allgrain.
> I decided to keep it simple at first and concentrate on just a few of what I cosidered to be the important factors.
> A mash temp. of around 67C. Boil time of an hour. Fermentation temp of around 20C.
> ...


Thanks Brad. I have got the message loud & clear, like a torent falling over a waterfall

Cheers
dalpets


----------



## Mattese (6/12/10)

manticle said:


> I'm a mildly socially awkward 35 yr old male postgraduate student who like art, very strange music and collecting dead animals (I draw them) and children's shoes.



Ok, I'm following right up to the shoes bit... :huh:


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> So you say, but I've been on too many forums in my time not to know a self appointed power broker when I see one.


Close but no cigar. Not so interested in power and no one listens anyway. But you're getting closer to having my mark, for certain.

Get this talk of not being accepted at a brewday out of your head right now. Anyone as keen to learn as you obviously are is always welcome at such events - no ifs, ands or buts.


----------



## manticle (6/12/10)

Mattese said:


> Ok, I'm following right up to the shoes bit... :huh:




I did explain once in a thread which led to me posting my drawings.

Absurd sense of humour combined with an artistic interest in the discarded and repressed. That explains my interest in drawing dead things - children's shoes aren't too far away. They're always around, somewhere in the street, usually just one because they've fallen off a foot. Child or parent may or may not have an attachment to it but once it's lost it becomes meaningless rubbish to most people, just like a squashed spider, dead mouse or dead wasp.

Explaining art is something I've never been fond of and it's way off topic - point is the population that are brewers are made up of all sorts. 

No-one fits in - therefore everyone fits in.

Near the end of a bottle of trois monts so cheers all.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

> ............. a good natured dig at your rather elaborate way of typing.



I was heartbroken when I didn't seem to fit in, I was even considering having a lobotomy. That is patently an unfair sarcastic statement, and I apologize, for momentarily breaking my own rules.

i didn't say that,.......did I?. Even open sarcasm is not on. so I will flagellate myself daily for the next week. I do have a sense of humour too, not misguided I hope.

For those who saw this thread and the number of posts could be excused for thinking that it must contain some gems of brewing knowledge, alas it is littered with off topic rants for which I am partly to blame. Sorry! Nevertheless, off topic or not, I guess the main players in the thread have learned something about human relationships. I'm certainly still learning!. Apologies to those who diverted to and were distracted by this non event, as it were.

............and to Bum thank you for your conderate PM.

At the risk of further damage to my psyche I have set up a gallery of my brewing equipment for all to view. Quite a humble setup really, yet I'm proud of it as I spent many hours setting it up, with limited resources & knowledge. Please don't laugh, you'll break my heart again, You can well appreciate from the gallery that I am not aspiring to competition with industry 


If you have any constructive comments or in the unlikely event you want to ask questions about the equipment please feel free to PM me.

I'm sure the so coined non-existant "techno trousers" would appreciate my effort. All I have to do now is to make all grain beer with it, Ph aside.

So ends the Epistle to the Forum
(by way of clarification not to the brewers of the Roman forum -they didn't have the technology) 

Cheers
dalpets


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> At the risk of further damage to my psyche I have set up a gallery of my brewing equipment for all to view. Quite a humble setup really, yet I'm proud of it as I spent many hours setting it up, with limited resources & knowledge. Please don't laugh, you'll break my heart again, You can well appreciate from the gallery that I am not aspiring to competition with industry


Whoa! You do NOT muck around, do you? Seriously impressive rig for a beginner (for anyone, really). Man, is that a sparge arm built into the lid of your tun? I can't say I've seen anyone do that before - is that your idea or have I not done enough reading on sparge arms? [EDIT: At the risk of raising your ire, if you aren't an engineer you're clearly a frustrated one. This build really is extremely impressive for someone who has never even mashed a brew. Well done.]

As for the PM - the least I could do and nothing to thank me for in any case.


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## outbreak (6/12/10)

I think he may need to supply a spoon pic in the gallery because the stench of troll is high....


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

outbreak said:


> I think he may need to supply a spoon pic in the gallery because the stench of troll is high....


I dunno. None of it (with the possible exception of the HLT) looks especially well used. Seems like a plausibly new rig to me. 

I hope so anyway. I fucken HATE it when I get trolled.

[EDIT: I took the liberty of running a couple of the images through Tineye and it came up with nothing. If this is a hoax it is an elaborate one.]


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> Man, is that a sparge arm built into the lid of your tun? I can't say I've seen anyone do that before - is that your idea or have I not done enough reading on sparge arms? [



Actually, I like fiddling with contraptions and I think I had to use my ingenuity for what I wasn't quite sure I was doing at the time (making a simple return or sparge). Sort of a prototype.. The vertical copper intake slides up or down to regulate depth with a retainer clip.

Actually, I wasn't paricularly happy with that arrangement given it only had four outlets so I designed the the other plastic sparge arm that you see sitting atop the structure. I have done this so I can avoid channelling in the mash, as it has minute sparge holes along both its sides and can be used with the march pump attached to my hot water kettle and sparge delivery can be regulated by way of a plastic heat certified tap incorporated into the arm.

cheers
dalpets


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

Ah, I was wondering about the plastic jobbie.

I don't know much about sparge arms and I do know that the shape of them is a contentious matter (so I'll leave it to others to discuss whether your design is the best possible - but if memory serves a sort of spiral-ish design is often suggested as being best(?), but then I don't think that design is used fixed so I have no idea) but I will say that the amount of thought and research you put into this design goes a long way to explaining why you're looking at matching original, pre-mash water profiles even before your first AG beer.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

outbreak said:


> I think he may need to supply a spoon pic in the gallery because the stench of troll is high....



Forgive my ignorance what does the above mean? Are you saying I should pull the images for security sake.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

outbreak said:


> I think he may need to supply a spoon pic in the gallery because the stench of troll is high....



Forgive my ignorance what does the above mean? Are you saying I should pull the images for security sake.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> I dunno. None of it (with the possible exception of the HLT) looks especially well used. Seems like a plausibly new rig to me.
> 
> I hope so anyway. I fucken HATE it when I get trolled.
> 
> [EDIT: I took the liberty of running a couple of the images through Tineye and it came up with nothing. If this is a hoax it is an elaborate one.]



Bum,

What does all this mean. Have I been naive putting up my images?

If you mean what I think you mean this is a very distrustful paranoid world.

All this trolling talk, a la deception, is way out of my league. Remember I'm from a different generation!

Does it really mean you are looking over your shoulder all the time and you even checked out my vreracity & honesty. What a pain!. I am disappointed!.


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

Oh man. Now I'm all confused. It does all seem somewhat trolly now.

Assuming this is all above board - no, the images present no security problem at all, that is not his suggestion. He is suggesting that perhaps you're not as new to brewing as you say you are.


----------



## felten (6/12/10)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you!


----------



## outbreak (6/12/10)

All can be solved with a spoon pic  

Take a picture of your mashtun with a silver spoon in it.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> Oh man. Now I'm all confused. It does all seem somewhat trolly now.
> 
> Assuming this is all above board - no, the images present no security problem at all, that is not his suggestion. He is suggesting that perhaps you're not as new to brewing as you say you are.



What else do you guys do for your kicks? Do you have nothing better to do? Oh I feel so sorry for your lack of confidence in human beings. How do you carry that baggage around with you every day?


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

Google just led me to a post from last year by a gent by the name of "dalpets" that nails the exact tone used here. Again, I say if this is a hoax it is an elaborate one and I'll continue to take his posts as genuine until otherwise is proven.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

outbreak said:


> All can be solved with a spoon pic
> 
> Take a picture of your mashtun with a silver spoon in it.



That's a real intelligent contribution. I'm starting to think that a minority of you on this forum are complete slags.
Go away you worm!


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Does it really mean you are looking over your shoulder all the time and you even checked out my vreracity & honesty. What a pain!. I am disappointed!.


That is not what it means. I did do those things but you make it look like this is something I do for every person I come across online. I do not and did not until someone else brought your genuineness into question. I clearly stated that what "evidence" I could find suggests that I'm happy to take you at face value and I hope this puts the matter to bed - not only for you and I but also for other readers of this exchange.


----------



## outbreak (6/12/10)

You sound like a troll, its not a big ask for you to supply said photo. Either way im not really phased, its just that your tone and unnecessary over the top language are all hallmarks of an internet troll, just trying to help others out so they don't waste their time....

edit.... hmmm maybe I am a jaded cynical internet user an frequent too many forums....... sorry if I offended.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> Google just led me to a post from last year by a gent by the name of "dalpets" that nails the exact tone used here. Again, I say if this is a hoax it is an elaborate one and I'll continue to take his posts as genuine until otherwise is proven.




Why don't you talk to me in person rather than refer to me in the third person.

I get the overriding feeling that I am talking to two different people every time I touch base with you,

I'm getting to the point with you and your lot that AHB is a waste of time. I have better things to do than hang around with paranoids


----------



## outbreak (6/12/10)

He was talking to me in that post. Bum is being nice to you, I was the one who was being a jerk.


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Why don't you talk to me in person rather than refer to me in the third person.


Because I was talking to someone else about you. My tense was appropriate.



dalpets said:


> I get the overriding feeling that I am talking to two different people every time I touch base with you,


I can see where you are coming from but you've got the wrong end of the stick here (less so in other instances).



dalpets said:


> I'm getting to the point with you and your lot that AHB is a waste of time. I have better things to do than hang around with paranoids


Please reconsider. What I said in my PM was genuine and nothing said here changes that (and vice versa). PM aside, everyone here will be very happy to support me when I say that neither outbreak nor I are the face of popular opinion here. This board really is a terrific resource and can be of tremendous help to you.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> Oh man. Now I'm all confused. It does all seem somewhat trolly now.
> 
> Assuming this is all above board - no, the images present no security problem at all, that is not his suggestion. He is suggesting that perhaps you're not as new to brewing as you say you are.



Oh dear, what a sad world! If you you are with Interpol I have no fears at all, Bum. 

Are there any level headed brewers lurking on this thread please let me know so that my confidence in human nature can de restored.


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Oh dear, what a sad world!


Ok, the chronology is all messed up here now. I hope you realise I've moved on from the seed of doubt planted by outbreak in reading this thread further.

Changing tack for a moment, if I may, I just realised that what I assumed was a HLT might be a HERMS or RIMS. Is that right or am I out of my depth (RIMS and HERMS are most definitely out of my depth either way)?


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

felten said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
> 
> Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you!



Exactly, but maybe the yellow wagon is!


----------



## bum (6/12/10)

Actually, nevermind. My best intentions seem to only be making things worse here. I'll leave you to it.

Yes, more level headed brewers will be glad to assist you. And I'll refrain from further contributions.

An aside to everyone else: why can't this happen when it is my actual intention? I have to do it when trying my best not to. Oh well.


----------



## jonocarroll (6/12/10)

dalpets said:


> All this trolling talk, a la deception, is way out of my league. Remember I'm from a different generation!


Whose profile states that his interests include IT (namely, linux)... yet who doesn't know what a troll is? Uh huh.








This forum is a wonderful resource when not used for social chit-chat. Haters gonna hate - stick to the brewing questions & answers and you'll be fine.

Looks like a real pretty set up. Should do great.

If I can hark back to the original question - as I'm sure is stated somewhere in here, get your basic process working good then tweak the water profile.


----------



## felten (6/12/10)

bum said:


> An aside to everyone else: why can't this happen when it is my actual intention? I have to do it when trying my best not to. Oh well.


I was thinking exactly the same thing, you can't win either way. It's a sad world indeed.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

outbreak said:


> You sound like a troll, its not a big ask for you to supply said photo. Either way im not really phased, its just that your tone and unnecessary over the top language are all hallmarks of an internet troll, just trying to help others out so they don't waste their time....
> 
> edit.... hmmm maybe I am a jaded cynical internet user an frequent too many forums....... sorry if I offended.



You certainly did offend!. Coming out of the woodwork at this stage of proceedings makes me believe that you are only interested in a stouche.
And who makes you, may I ask, the bench mark of communication standards. Too many on this forum are to ready to criticize at the drop of a hat before they get their brain into gear. Furthermore you show your ignorance when you make ad hominen attacks on people's personalities.

I have to say, as a fair minded person, I accept your apology but please think it through in future before you go into print.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> That is not what it means. I did do those things but you make it look like this is something I do for every person I come across online. I do not and did not until someone else brought your genuineness into question. I clearly stated that what "evidence" I could find suggests that I'm happy to take you at face value and I hope this puts the matter to bed - not only for you and I but also for other readers of this exchange.


 And did you check out his credentials too?. He may well be just out to make trouble, be a sick paranoid or just coveting my setup.


----------



## dalpets (6/12/10)

bum said:


> Google just led me to a post from last year by a gent by the name of "dalpets" that nails the exact tone used here. Again, I say if this is a hoax it is an elaborate one and I'll continue to take his posts as genuine until otherwise is proven.


 Take it from me you are wasting your time Sherlock Holmes! This lead of yours is a dead duck! Have you thought that you might be better served pursuing your university studies rather than serving up this umitigated tripe? And so you are also Robin Hood championing the peasant brewers from the the oppressive trolls. Are you in the real world, mate?. Maybe you just spend too much time in the virtual world. Next you will be checking out your relatives, if you don't take care!.


----------



## bum (7/12/10)




----------



## dalpets (7/12/10)

bum said:


> Ok, the chronology is all messed up here now. I hope you realise I've moved on from the seed of doubt planted by outbreak in reading this thread further.
> 
> Changing tack for a moment, if I may, I just realised that what I assumed was a HLT might be a HERMS or RIMS. Is that right or am I out of my depth (RIMS and HERMS are most definitely out of my depth either way)?



Probably it's a corrupted version of both, not really knowing what I was doing, just a jumbled picture in my mind of what had stuck from traversing the internet. Its the sort of concoction that you would expect from a virtually new brewer who has only done a couple of extract brews & a mini mash even though I have been registered on AHB since 2006 its taken me until recently to come up with this hack setup.


----------



## dalpets (7/12/10)

QuantumBrewer said:


> Whose profile states that his interests include IT (namely, linux)... yet who doesn't know what a troll is? Uh huh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have joined the choir and with them ,unfortunately, you are sparring with shadows. Hmm...group dynamics is curious and sometimes can be the making of a poisoned chalice.
So, please don't you start in on me, mate. That's all I need!. For your information with every other interest I have I don't have time to be a Linux guru,(and don't aspire to it). I'm just a follower. So I don't know all the linux speak jargon & don't want to. I'll leave that to people who live Linux.
It's getting like one should have a veil of secrecy over ones persona (profile). It should be in the interests of transparency, but no, it proves to be a launching pad for innuendo. Shucks I can't win even though I'm trying to convey that I'm genuine. Really, I haven't got enough years left for intrigue & bullshit.


----------



## dalpets (7/12/10)

A STATEMENT OF INTENTION:


I will not be harassed or have my personality sullied by the few worms who choose to come out of the woodwork on this or other threads on AHB.
Take me or leave me I will not answer you if you are not dealing dealing directly with brewing issues. I never did like tripe.

Thanks to all those who are straight down the line and are only here in the interests of brewing knowledge & imparting it to those of us who need help.

Cheers
dalpets


----------



## outbreak (7/12/10)




----------



## dalpets (7/12/10)

bum said:


> Ah, I was wondering about the plastic jobbie.
> 
> I don't know much about sparge arms and I do know that the shape of them is a contentious matter (so I'll leave it to others to discuss whether your design is the best possible - but if memory serves a sort of spiral-ish design is often suggested as being best(?), but then I don't think that design is used fixed so I have no idea) but I will say that the amount of thought and research you put into this design goes a long way to explaining why you're looking at matching original, pre-mash water profiles even before your first AG beer.



I had to stop somewhere & be satisfied that I had a reasonably workable setup. I wasn't looking for perfection- frustration often results from a perfectionist attitude if you don't achieve your goals and I well know my limitations.


----------



## drsmurto (7/12/10)

Just had a look at the photo of your brewing setup and can see how my in jest swipe at engineers might have been taken the wrong way. That's a serious looking brewery for someone who has never brewed an AG as it makes sense of all the questions you have been asking.

I assume you are retired as you mentioned your age in a previous post and you would need a lot of spare time to build this and do as much research as you are prior to your first AG.

If you haven't already i would recommend watching someone do an AG brew. Not sure what time frame you are looking at before you pop your AG cherry but i would be happy to have you around to watch me brew albeit on a far more rudimentary setup than yours. I like to take a day off week during the week and brew so will let you know when i brew next. With the recent acquisition of 3 yorkshire yeast strains i am planning on a Landlord.

And given the broad range of people who regularly get together in Adelaide for beers and brewing you wont be out of place. We cover all ages, all walks of life and yes, we even have at least 1 engineer  A lot of the lads love tinkering away on their brew rigs so no doubt you'll have much to talk about. I am allergic to DIY so focus more on the sampling :chug: 

The next big get together will be early next year for a case swap. Even if you don't want to swap beers you are more than welcome to join us as the day involves sampling each others beers, talking all things brewing and generally having a good time. 

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## dalpets (7/12/10)

DrSmurto said:


> .
> I assume you are retired as you mentioned your age in a previous post and you would need a lot of spare time to build this and do as much research as you are prior to your first AG.



Not really that intensive, given it was put together, on & off, over 3 years or so.




> If you haven't already i would recommend watching someone do an AG brew. Not sure what time frame you are looking at before you pop your AG cherry but i would be happy to have you around to watch me brew albeit on a far more rudimentary setup than yours. I like to take a day off week during the week and brew so will let you know when i brew next. With the recent acquisition of 3 yorkshire yeast strains i am planning on a Landlord.



That's a welcome offer. I'd like to get down to real brewing & leave the DIY behind. That's what it's all about.




> The next big get together will be early next year for a case swap. Even if you don't want to swap beers you are more than welcome to join us as the day involves sampling each others beers, talking all things brewing and generally having a good time.



That sounds great. I Probably would pass on swapping, though. I'm sure my samples wouldn't be up there with you guys, despite the you beaut setup.

Cheers
dalpets


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