# RecipeDB - Bullshead Witbier



## Tony

Bullshead Witbier  Ale - Belgian White (Wit)  All Grain               7 Votes        Brewer's Notes This beer turned out fantastic! I used JW raw unmalted wheat, Malteuro Pilsner malt and Indian corriander seed and dried orange peel sourced from the 'herbies' website. I coursly crushed the corriander and toasted it in a dry hot pan for a couple minuted to stop vetetable characters and inhance the flavour. Mash was a gradual increase through my HERMS over about 1.5 hrs from 50 to about 74. Fermented at 19 deg with Wyeast 3463 forbidden fruit then crash chilled in primary for a week and dumped it strait in the keg cold.Added 20g orange peel @10 min, 20g corriander seed @ 5 min and 5g Orange peel at 5 min. Oats were a 1kg box of uncle tobys quick oats dumped strait in the mash.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      5 kg Kirin Pilsner Malt    5 kg JWM Wheat Malt    1 kg Flaked Oats       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      50 g Saphir (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 45mins)    20 g Saphir (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 5mins)       Yeast     100 ml Wyeast Labs 3463 - Forbidden Fruit         54L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.044 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.011 (calc)   Bitterness 11.1 IBU   Efficiency 70%   Alcohol 4.28%   Colour 6 EBC   Batch Size 54L     Fermentation   Primary 5 days   Conditioning 1 days


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## RobB

I may have jumped in too early, because the recipe page is blank.

Was your orange peel the sweet or bitter variety?


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## Tony

It was just dried orange peel. I think as long as you dont use the sugar laced sweet stuff it will be fine. 

here is what i used

Orange:

http://www.gourmetshopper.com.au/shop/prod...at=0&page=1

Indian Coriander:

http://www.gourmetshopper.com.au/shop/prod...at=3&page=4

cheers


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## manticle

How does that yeast behave Tony?

I'm keen to use the same grist and hop schedule I have for a belgian golden strong but drop the sugar and use the forbidden fruit yeast.


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## Tony

The yeast is a rippa!

It finnished in 3 or 4 days, and settled out well.

No big messy yeast vomiting airlocks either...... just a nice compact 2 inch head on the ferment.

Its one i will use again!


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## manticle

Cheers for that.

Beer looks great by the way - just a lovely white cloudy beer in the glass - as it should be.


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## Tony

cheers mate...... yeah it has that "white" tone that it should have from the haze. I used no irish moss in this either... to keep the haze real. 

The tartness from the raw wheat is the key to this beer. It actually feels like a 30 IBU beer in the mouth, but its only about 12. The wheat dryness and tartness kind of puckers your mouth a bit and makes it very refreshing. This would be a dangerous beer to have on tap in January heat.

I will post a pic of the beer here as well cause over time the "whats in the glass" post will be lost to the backlogs.


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## HeavyNova

Looks beautiful! I want a beer now!


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Winner ....... Absolute beauty.
Mine was a touch different but basically the same. I use stryian goldings to 18 IBU's and couldnt get the bitter peel so used angus park mixed peel. Also used Wyeast Belgian Wit 3944.

It's a gem and I am now officially a Tony disciple .... :beerbang:


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## amiddler

Pic's Triple B, Pic's. I need to know if it looks as good as Tony's.

Drew


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Ahh the gauntlet Mr Drews Brews .... I will oblige and it will be magnificant. Stay tuned ...


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## Bada Bing Brewery

The lemon is to add to the drama ..........


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## amiddler

Nice. Even looks like Tony's, I might even go and have a beer myself. I'm guessing you didn't tip yours out.

:icon_offtopic: What type of plants are those in the back ground? :icon_cheers: 


Drew


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## Tony

Awsome!


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## robv

This is an awesome beer Tony - followed the original recipe.



Cheers


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## humulus

Ordering the stuff from C.B this week Tony,looks a winner!!!!!!! :chug:


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## Bada Bing Brewery

If you haven't used raw wheat before (which I hadn't until this brew) you will probably need to mill it twice - it's a buggar... 
yes this recipe is a winner
Cheers
BBB


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## humulus

Ive got some WB06 in the fridge,would this yeast suit the character of the beer?
or...does the wyeast forbidden fruit make it!!!???
thanks for any feed back
p.s. that photo that Tony took makes me soooooooo thirsty,stupid work always gets in the way of fun stuff
cheers 
humulus :beer:


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## Tony

Short answer....... no!

WB-06 is a weizen yeast not a wit yeast........ the flavours are very different.

either the forbidden fruit yeast (which was really easy to use) or any of the comercial whitbier yeasts will be fine.

here is a link to the wyeast site and down the bottom are all the recomended yeasts in order of preference

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_styledetails.cfm?ID=174

cheers


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## winkle

Tony said:


> Short answer....... no!
> 
> WB-06 is a weizen yeast not a wit yeast........ the flavours are very different.
> 
> either the forbidden fruit yeast (which was really easy to use) or any of the comercial whitbier yeasts will be fine.
> 
> here is a link to the wyeast site and down the bottom are all the recomended yeasts in order of preference
> 
> http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_styledetails.cfm?ID=174
> 
> cheers



Handy link that, thanks Tony.


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## humulus

Tony said:


> Short answer....... no!
> 
> WB-06 is a weizen yeast not a wit yeast........ the flavours are very different.
> 
> either the forbidden fruit yeast (which was really easy to use) or any of the comercial whitbier yeasts will be fine.
> 
> here is a link to the wyeast site and down the bottom are all the recomended yeasts in order of preference
> 
> http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_styledetails.cfm?ID=174
> 
> cheers


Thanks a million for that Tony great link,will post a pic of the Bullshead Wit when shes in the glass!! :icon_chickcheers:


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Humulus - which yeast are you going with? The Forbidden fruit or the Belgian Wit? Both are winners ...
Cheers
BBB


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## humulus

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Humulus - which yeast are you going with? The Forbidden fruit or the Belgian Wit? Both are winners ...
> Cheers
> BBB


Bada Bing thinking im going with th Belgain Wit yeast looks like it gives you a few different style choices so i can reuse it.What do you think?
im really looking forward to trying the finished product the fotos of it look bloody awsome!!! :icon_drool2: 
chhers humulus


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## Bada Bing Brewery

I've never used the forbidden fruit. You are right though - the belgian wit gives you lots of options and i've used it regularly. Great yeast. Hope it all goes well. Tossing up whether to try a stout or do another version of this. The first keg is nearly gone :blink: 
Cheers
BBB


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## Tony

mmmm my keg is almost dry and i will mourn its loss 

Im thinking for some fun next time i make one, i will make an Imperial Wit.... same recipe scaled up to 1.070

I may need to get some more rice gulls from somewhere


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## gavinl

Hi Tony,

I am very keen to try this recipe, thanks for sharing it.

I do have a question about the gradual increase in temp. Could you please explain your method?


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## Tony

i just started the mash at about 50 deg and recirculated it through my HERMS coil while increasing the temperature of the HLT (where the herms coil is mounted) so that the return liquor to the mash has been heated up a bit.

This will slowly raise the mash temperature.

Everyones setup is different and if you have facility to do this i cant really tell you how with your setup...... you need to work the temps and flow rates out 

If you cant do this infusion steps would work fine!

cheers


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## drew9242

humulus said:


> Bada Bing thinking im going with th Belgain Wit yeast looks like it gives you a few different style choices so i can reuse it.What do you think?
> im really looking forward to trying the finished product the fotos of it look bloody awsome!!! :icon_drool2:
> chhers humulus



Look forward to hearing how this turned out. I'm thinking of using this yeast aswell. Than i can use it for some belgium beers.

Just a question would the belgian wit yeast be any good for belgian blondes, or am i way of the mark. If so i might just get 2 yeasts.


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## humulus

Tony how does this sound for a 22l batch 
pilsner malt 1.8kg
pale wheat malt 1.8kg
uncle tobys .360g
its my first time working out weights please feel free to change anything
cheers humulus


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## Crusty

humulus said:


> Tony how does this sound for a 22l batch
> pilsner malt 1.8kg
> pale wheat malt 1.8kg
> uncle tobys .360g
> its my first time working out weights please feel free to change anything
> cheers humulus



I put these figures into Beer Tools Pro & it equates to around 90% efficiency.
I set my efficiency to 80% & am hoping to tweak it a little more once the Herms is finally finished.
Are you getting 90% eff?
If so, I think it looks pretty good. My calcs are the same as above except U/T Oats, .390g.


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## humulus

Crusty said:


> I put these figures into Beer Tools Pro & it equates to around 90% efficiency.
> I set my efficiency to 80% & am hoping to tweak it a little more once the Herms is finally finished.
> Are you getting 90% eff?
> If so, I think it looks pretty good. My calcs are the same as above except U/T Oats, .390g.


Lucky your on the ball Crusty,adjusted my eff to a more realistic 68%,still getting used to my set up
looking at 
2.04kg bel pilsner malt
2.04kg bel pale wheat malt
400g U/t oats
Do you reckon those malts sound ok crusty?


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## Tony

looks good to me.

Are you using wheat malt or raw wheat?


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## Cocko

Chilling Method Tony?

Just wondering about the hop additions if NC'ing.....


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Cocko - I would never presume to speak for Tony but I did this recipe BIAB and NC'd. No drama's with the hop schedule. Mine was about 14 IBU's using Stryian Goldings 20g @ 45 and 15g at 10 minutes ... I think this recipe is all about the raw wheat and yeast. It is good beer.
My 2c
Cheers
BBB


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## BigDaddy

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Cocko - I would never presume to speak for Tony but I did this recipe BIAB and NC'd. No drama's with the hop schedule. Mine was about 14 IBU's using Stryian Goldings 20g @ 45 and 15g at 10 minutes ... I think this recipe is all about the raw wheat and yeast. It is good beer.
> My 2c
> Cheers
> BBB



Couldn't agree more. I just cracked one of these (3rd BIAB for me) and it tastes great after 2 weeks with good hop flavour and a nice dryish finish. I'd like to see it a little more citrusy and maybe some pear type flavours in it - perhaps an idea for secondary.

Great recipe Tony - thanks mate :icon_cheers:


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## kelbygreen

tony wouldnt NC so this would be a quick chill. I cant remember his chilling setup, but I think its a immersion chiller. I dont think he has shown it to me yet so hope he proves me wrong


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## Tony

i use an immersion chiller yes 

And i do no chill as well but only with stronger flavoured low hopped beers.

If your no chilling the recipe will be fine!

Cheers


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## humulus

Tony said:


> looks good to me.
> 
> Are you using wheat malt or raw wheat?


Definately using raw wheat Tony 
30g at 45min
12g at 5min of hops sound good
sorry about all the questions mate,just downloaded beer alchemy tryin to work it out
cheers glenn :icon_chickcheers:


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## Crusty

With your 68% eff & 22l batch,

Saphir ( 4.7% ) 22g @45min
Died orange peel 8.8g @10mins
Saphir ( 4.7% ) 8.8g @ 5mins
Roughly crushed toasted corriander seed 8.8g @5min
Dried orange peel 2.2g @5mins
11.0 IBU. 
Wyeast 3463 :icon_cheers:


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## humulus

Crusty said:


> With your 68% eff & 22l batch,
> 
> Saphir ( 4.7% ) 22g @45min
> Died orange peel 8.8g @10mins
> Saphir ( 4.7% ) 8.8g @ 5mins
> Roughly crushed toasted corriander seed 8.8g @5min
> Dried orange peel 2.2g @5mins
> 11.0 IBU.
> Wyeast 3463 :icon_cheers:


Cheers crusty will order the stuff from C.B this week watch this space will keep you informed
thanks everybody for your advise and help,still gotta get my head around beer alchemy!!!!!


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## humulus

This recipe is the bomb!!! on my 2nd keg already
Thanks for sharing this winner Tony!!!! :icon_chickcheers:


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## Tony

no probs 

I will have to get more raw wheat


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## Simon Gellie

Hey guys,

I'm planning to make a batch of this on the weekend, it sounds great. However, I do maxi-BIAB in a 19L pot on the stove top, therefore my mash is full to the brim. I don't think that I could do a step mash, as I wouldn't be able to constantly stir whilst heating (to get even heat distribution and to prevent the bag from burning on the bottom of the pot) without splashing wort everywhere. Would this recipe still turn out ok if I just do a single step mash? If so, what temperature should I mash at? 


Also, should I do a 90min boil because you are using pilsner malt?

Many thanks

Simon


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## felten

You could look at doing a decoction to raise the temperature instead of direct heating.

Or you could reduce the strike water, and add it back in during the sparge.


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## Tony

Ahhhh and you hit the limitation of BIAB.

If its on the stove, cant you gently heat the mash to the steps?


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## Simon Gellie

Thanks for your advice Felten and Tony,

I've never done a step mash or decoction, this is only my 7th AG brew (all single step mashes). So maybe I should attempt a step mash, as it sounds more simple, using a gentle heat on the small gas stovetop burner, watching it closely and very carefully stirring it regularly. I don't quite fully understand the process and reasons (flavour and colour?) for a decoction yet, so I will have to do a bit more reading before I attempted a decoction.

In a step mash what temperatures and times would you recommend for each step? 

Many thanks again
Simon


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## felten

Decoctions are very daunting, but they are pretty straight forward. There's a good article on them here http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing

Step mashing is definitely quicker though, and that's what I would do if you are able to.


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## seamad

My steps and times are:
52 for 15min
64 f for 40 min
70 for 20 min
76 for 10 min

Some also start at 42 for 15 i think.

Before i had recirc biab either pump with paint mixer with applied heat or lift bag overshoot temp a bit and lower bag

Hope this helps


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## Simon Gellie

Thanks for your help guys

Seamad I'll give that step mash schedule a crack tonight.

Good article thanks Felten. You are right, decoctions don't sound as complex as I first thought. I'll give one a try soon.


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## humulus

Has anyone used the corriander,orange peel and black peppercorns? knocking up another bullshead wit today and im thinking of adding 6 or so whole black peppercorns into the boil! :icon_cheers:


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## Tanga

The only place I've seen pepper tried in a wit is when wits were the "Beer of the week thread" and it didn't go over too well. Sorry I can't be more help, but maybe check it out. I'd link it, but I'm on my phone. Personally I wouldn't add pepper, but if I did I'd only use a tiny bit so you couldn't identify it.


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## humulus

Thanks mate,your right might just try a few and see how it goes,or maybe none at all it is SWAMBOs fav so i dont think i should mess with it :beer:


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## Tanga

humulus said:


> Thanks mate,your right might just try a few and see how it goes,or maybe none at all it is SWAMBOs fav so i dont think i should mess with it :beer:



Or make sure that, if you do, it's better. 

The wit BOTW is a good thread: worth reading if you want to change things up. Chai spices are the one that makes me go hmmm. :icon_drool2:


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## Tanga

Humulus. I've been stalking the flavour of the week threads and found this:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...13451&st=20

Looks like B-Saaz would be a good sub for the hops, and give some of those peppery notes you're after with the added bonus of being able to be aged out if you don't like it. I have some B-Saaz, so may give it a go myself. Apparently goes well in wits.


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## humulus

Tanga said:


> Humulus. I've been stalking the flavour of the week threads and found this:
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...13451&st=20
> 
> Looks like B-Saaz would be a good sub for the hops, and give some of those peppery notes you're after with the added bonus of being able to be aged out if you don't like it. I have some B-Saaz, so may give it a go myself. Apparently goes well in wits.


Cheers Tanga i will definately pick up some b-saaz to see how it tweeks it!.
I stuck to the original recipe seeing its such a "quaffer" but b-saaz it is next time! :beer:


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## Tony

hell yeah... B Saaz would work well as the late hop i think


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## Tanga

Glad you think so Tony. It is one thing to see a hop description and recipe and think yeah, and to know the beer and think yeah. I feel much better about trying (and suggesting) this now. Thanks!

Due to my parents not loving me enough to act as pack mules and bring my honey wheat braggot back from the country when they visit I have yet to try B-Saaz, but will be using it in this very soon, as your recipe looks a goer.


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## Tony

Tanga... B Saaz is one of my favorite hops. 

It is peppery but i wouldnt describe it a black pepper....... more a solid slightly bitey edge to the citrus..... making it peppery i guess 

if you can... use whole flowers :icon_drool2: In fact you could probably use all NZ hops in this...... some hallartau aroma, and goldings of styrian flowers from NZ are great hops.

cheers


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## Tony

I think im gunna have to brew this again soon myself........... i just found a vial of Forbidden Fruit yeast in my fridge 

Might aim to have this on tap beside a CAP when it warms up a bit more....... Lawnmowing will never be better


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## jyo

Hey there, Tony.
I ordered some wheat yeasts a while ago in anticipation to try this recipe. I just checked and I've ordered 3944 Belgian Witbier instead of the forbidden fruit :wacko: 
I've not tried this yeast yet (or the forbidden fruit, or brewed a Wit either). How do you reckon it'd go?
Cheers, mate.
John.


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## humulus

Tony said:


> I think im gunna have to brew this again soon myself........... i just found a vial of Forbidden Fruit yeast in my fridge
> 
> Might aim to have this on tap beside a CAP when it warms up a bit more....... Lawnmowing will never be better


My Wit can in a bit under gravity 1040 ill be looking forward to mowing the lawns in a few weeks!!!!! Definately b saaz next think it should compliment the corriander and orange
Rekon Bulls head saison is next,going by last weeks temps it will be all i can brew!!!!(cold and pissing down now!!!though)


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## Tony

well its a Witbier yeast so im sure it will go great!

I have not tried it myself either........ use it and let us know what you think!

cheers


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## Tanga

Tony said:


> Tanga... B Saaz is one of my favorite hops.
> 
> It is peppery but i wouldnt describe it a black pepper....... more a solid slightly bitey edge to the citrus..... making it peppery i guess
> 
> if you can... use whole flowers :icon_drool2: In fact you could probably use all NZ hops in this...... some hallartau aroma, and goldings of styrian flowers from NZ are great hops.
> 
> cheers



Wow, that does sound good. This recipe ticks all the boxes for a wit, and seems similar to the best of the recipes in the flavour of the week thread on wits, and with all positive feedback. It was only a matter of time before I tried it. It will be sooner rather than later now though. I can use hops and yeast I have. =)


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## Tony

awsome!

I only usually post up the recipes that really say WOW. If im not 100% happy that people will get a great result...... it stayes in promash to be tweaked.

Thats not to say you cant tweak them though..... thats the joy of being a home brewer!

Remember to toast off the coriander seed first and get the good Indian coriander seeds from herbies...... they have the most amazing lemony character.

cheers


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## humulus

Tanga said:


> Wow, that does sound good. This recipe ticks all the boxes for a wit, and seems similar to the best of the recipes in the flavour of the week thread on wits, and with all positive feedback. It was only a matter of time before I tried it. It will be sooner rather than later now though. I can use hops and yeast I have. =)


This recipe is a winner Tanga!!! been through 3 kegs!! and its about the most "could you please brew that wit beer again" style that ive made
:icon_cheers: let us know what you think of it once you have made it
Cheers Glenn


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## jyo

Tony said:


> well its a Witbier yeast so im sure it will go great!
> 
> I have not tried it myself either........ use it and let us know what you think!
> 
> cheers



Good stuff, mate. Can't wait to try this! I'll hopefully get to this in the next couple of weeks, so I'll let you know.
Cheers.


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## drew9242

Brewed this on the weekend.

Tried a new mash schedule as well.

20min Protein rest @ 55
60 min Scarification @ 65
10min Decoction for mash out @ 75

Just making a starter now for it, will let you know how it goes.


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## Thefatdoghead

I just made this its in the fridge now and smelling great. Although the "herbies" website were all out of indian coriander seed so i went with the Aussie stuff from them. see if i can get a hold of the indian stuff next time.
Grinding that raw wheat was nothing but a bitch!! spilled the grain all over the floor twice from the mill jamming up (had a couple under my belt) but got there eventually.
Thanks Tony


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## drew9242

Ohh i forgot to mention i couldn't get any dried orange peel here in Albany. Being the impatient bugger i just went and made some myself. In the oven on 100 degrees for an hour or 2 with the door ajar works a treat.


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## Bada Bing Brewery

jyo said:


> Hey there, Tony.
> I ordered some wheat yeasts a while ago in anticipation to try this recipe. I just checked and I've ordered 3944 Belgian Witbier instead of the forbidden fruit :wacko:
> I've not tried this yeast yet (or the forbidden fruit, or brewed a Wit either). How do you reckon it'd go?
> Cheers, mate.
> John.



JYO - I've done this 3 times with the 3944 belgian wit .... winner. I have got some forbidden fruit yeast now and will have a crack at it next week. Nice to see the difference...
Cheers
BBB


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## Tony

Gav80 said:


> Grinding that raw wheat was nothing but a bitch!! spilled the grain all over the floor twice from the mill jamming up (had a couple under my belt) but got there eventually.
> Thanks Tony



hehe 

get a motor !!!

good to see people making this........ its a cracker!


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## jyo

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> JYO - I've done this 3 times with the 3944 belgian wit .... winner. I have got some forbidden fruit yeast now and will have a crack at it next week. Nice to see the difference...
> Cheers
> BBB



Thanks, mate. I have to get to brewing this soon...I have a few beers on the waiting list at the moment.
Cheers.


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## Simon Gellie

Hey Guys,

I made a batch of this about 2 weeks ago, but unfortunately my efficiency was ABSOLUTELY CRAP.
I scaled the recipe down to make an 18L batch (did maxi-BIAB on stovetop using 19L pot) but I only finished up with just 13L of SG 1041 at the end of the boil, thats just 47% efficiency. 

Could anyone suggest how I might have got such bad efficiency? 

The grain was cracked by my LHBS. He actually used a coffee grinder to crack the raw wheat.

Here is the process that I used:
Step mash using the following steps:
52C for 15mins
64C for 40mins
70C for 20mins
76C for 10mins

I dropped the bag and grain into the water (approx 12-13L) at 55C and the temp dropped to 51C, but didn't have enough water so I added 1L of cold water to fill the pot close to the brim and heated to my first step of 52C. I continually stirred whilst heating on the stove top to each step (I kept the bag off the bottom of the pot by placing a stainless steel steamer rack that had lots of holes in it on the bottom of the pot) then I wrapped the pot in towels to insulate it when it had reached each temp and left for the allocated times. At the end of the mash I gave the bag a good squeeze then sparged 3 times, placing the bag inside a collander in a bucket and using about 3L each time (a total of about 9L).

I did a 90min boil and gradually added sparge water to keep the wort level close to the rim of the pot, whilst avoiding boil overs.

I also made the mistake of not taking a SG reading until after i'd finished the boil, so I think I added to too much coriander 7g?? (enough for 18L batch scaled from original recipe). Tasting the wort out of ther fermenter it has a slightly strong ham??? sort of flavour but a quite refreshing tart after taste. It's not undrinkable so I will bottle this weekend and see how it goes. 

Cheers
Simon


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## Mayor of Mildura

SimonG said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I made a batch of this about 2 weeks ago, but unfortunately my efficiency was ABSOLUTELY CRAP.
> I scaled the recipe down to make an 18L batch (did maxi-BIAB on stovetop using 19L pot) but I only finished up with just 13L of SG 1041 at the end of the boil, thats just 47% efficiency.
> 
> Could anyone suggest how I might have got such bad efficiency?
> 
> The grain was cracked by my LHBS. He actually used a coffee grinder to crack the raw wheat.
> 
> Here is the process that I used:
> Step mash using the following steps:
> 52C for 15mins
> 64C for 40mins
> 70C for 20mins
> 76C for 10mins
> 
> I dropped the bag and grain into the water (approx 12-13L) at 55C and the temp dropped to 51C, but didn't have enough water so I added 1L of cold water to fill the pot close to the brim and heated to my first step of 52C. I continually stirred whilst heating on the stove top to each step (I kept the bag off the bottom of the pot by placing a stainless steel steamer rack that had lots of holes in it on the bottom of the pot) then I wrapped the pot in towels to insulate it when it had reached each temp and left for the allocated times. At the end of the mash I gave the bag a good squeeze then sparged 3 times, placing the bag inside a collander in a bucket and using about 3L each time (a total of about 9L).
> 
> I did a 90min boil and gradually added sparge water to keep the wort level close to the rim of the pot, whilst avoiding boil overs.
> 
> I also made the mistake of not taking a SG reading until after i'd finished the boil, so I think I added to too much coriander 7g?? (enough for 18L batch scaled from original recipe). Tasting the wort out of ther fermenter it has a slightly strong ham??? sort of flavour but a quite refreshing tart after taste. It's not undrinkable so I will bottle this weekend and see how it goes.
> 
> Cheers
> Simon


I don't know what causes the low efficiency but have had the same issue when using raw wheat. I also had an issue with a large % of rye. The wort seems to be very viscous and takes ages to drain. Makes nice beer though.


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## Simon Gellie

mayor of mildura said:


> I don't know what causes the low efficiency but have had the same issue when using raw wheat. I also had an issue with a large % of rye. The wort seems to be very viscous and takes ages to drain. Makes nice beer though.




I know that wheat doesn't contain diastatic enzymes, so it needs the enzymes contained in certain malts to break down the starches. I've never used rye in a beer before but maybe rye doesn't contain diastatic enzymes either.


I also know that the amount of diastatic enzyme varies between different malt types. Could my poor efficiency be due to using a Pilsner malt (not sure what type of Pilsner the LHBS gave me) that didn't contain high enough levels of diastatic enzymes to break down the starches in the wheat?


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## Murphy

Hmmm,

I've just picked up the grain for this recipe from my LHBS, and I ordered JW malted wheat instead of raw wheat...

I'm going to make it as a BIAB tomorrow...should I be worried because its malted wheat instead? I've basically cut the recipe in half, with 2.5kg each of wheat and pilsner malt and 500g of oats. Using a mix of saaz and Hallertau instead of the Saphir.

Is there anything I should do because I'm using malted wheat instead of raw wheat?

Murphy


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## kiwisteveo

Brewed a extract version 3 days ago with

1.5kg Briess Pilsen Light LME
1.0kg Briess Dried Wheat Malt
300g Carapils
500g Quick oats
10g coriander seeds
Zest of 2 oranges
forbidden fruit wyeast 3463


couldn't help myself by putting in the carapils(don't know why i did now its a problem i have) and used 15g kohatu @45 mins,
Wai-iti 10g @20mins & 15g @5mins,could't find dried orange peel so had to use fresh, think i should have used more and the hops because i can, sorry for messing with your receipe tony,cheers hope i didn't fark it up though time will tell :beer:


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## Tony

SimonG said:


> Could my poor efficiency be due to using a Pilsner malt (not sure what type of Pilsner the LHBS gave me)



Woooooooowwwwww you dont know what sort of malt you got????????????

And he used a coffee grinder to crack the wheat?????????????

Mate..... your local HBS sounds dodgy.

Was the mystery pilsner malt freshly cracked for you or was it already cracked?

Good chance you have been sold some old stale malt or it was not cracked enough or a combo of both and thats what gave you your crap efficiency.

I get reduced efficiency with fresh malt cracked quite fine, and its not an easy beer to mash!




Murphy said:


> Hmmm,
> 
> I've just picked up the grain for this recipe from my LHBS, and I ordered JW malted wheat instead of raw wheat...
> 
> I'm going to make it as a BIAB tomorrow...should I be worried because its malted wheat instead? I've basically cut the recipe in half, with 2.5kg each of wheat and pilsner malt and 500g of oats. Using a mix of saaz and Hallertau instead of the Saphir.
> 
> Is there anything I should do because I'm using malted wheat instead of raw wheat?
> 
> Murphy



It will be fine, but you wont get the same fluffy tart finnish given by the raw wheat.

they use it for a reason


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## Thefatdoghead

Just tasted this one when I was racking to my keg.........tastes like Hoegarden accept more fresh homebrew goodness. Tastes like another cracking recipe from The BullsHead brewery! I reckon i'll be impressing my mates over the holidays with this one mate, thanks again.


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## Simon Gellie

Tony said:


> Woooooooowwwwww you dont know what sort of malt you got????????????
> 
> And he used a coffee grinder to crack the wheat?????????????
> 
> Mate..... your local HBS sounds dodgy.
> 
> Was the mystery pilsner malt freshly cracked for you or was it already cracked?
> 
> Good chance you have been sold some old stale malt or it was not cracked enough or a combo of both and thats what gave you your crap efficiency.
> 
> I get reduced efficiency with fresh malt cracked quite fine, and its not an easy beer to mash!



Thanks for your advice Tony,

I checked up on the Pilsner Malt and I think it was Joe White. 

I don't think that my LHBS is dodgy. He is always busy and I think that a lot of AHB members use his store regularly (his store in the north east of Melbourne is often mentioned on AHB) and other guys in the store often comment saying that he is better than other nearby stores. The wheat was freshly cracked on the day and when he cracked it he said that it jams in his mill, so he would do it in the coffee grinder. He probably has a good turn over of stock so I assume it was fresh. It was cracked quite coarsely so I think that was the reason for my crap efficiency. I'll make sure that it is cracked more finely for my next batch.

Cheers

Simon


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## Parks

I had the exact same issue with my Wit that currently fermenting. I was supposed to hit 1048 but only got 1041. 

It was 46% raw wheat. I must have simply milled it too coarsely as I set my mill to 1.5mm which has been working brilliantly until now. I was getting too much flour at 1.1 so opened it up.

Will try much finer on the raw wheat next time to see if that helps.


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## seamad

I too had my worst ever effecienccy with this wit. I set my mill up at 0.8 mm thinking that a finer crush might help too.
Turned out bloody good after a longer boil to get to sg.
Next time might set mill to 1.2 and allow for poorer effeciency.
Summer is coming so wit season is here


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## Tony

yeah my eff drops from 85% to 65 or 70......... but you get that with half the enzymes in there.

I too just allow fopr lower eff and use a bit more grain.

enjoy folks


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## Parks

Tony said:


> yeah my eff drops from 85% to 65 or 70......... but you get that with half the enzymes in there.
> 
> I too just allow fopr lower eff and use a bit more grain.
> 
> enjoy folks



The question is, do you simply change your efficiency calcs or do you think it's the raw wheat not being converted.

ie, if I use 5kg of Pale malt and 5kg of raw wheat, I wonder if the pale malt still converts at 85% efficiency and the wheat at 50% so should we increase the wheat % more? 

Are our assumptions of extract potential of raw wheat accurate?


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## humulus

Tony said:


> yeah my eff drops from 85% to 65 or 70......... but you get that with half the enzymes in there.
> 
> I too just allow fopr lower eff and use a bit more grain.
> 
> enjoy folks


I ge the same eff probs too still tastes bloody great though,Tony do you reuse your Bel Wit yeast or smack a new pack each brew,i made a starter up for the last Wit and when it finished and was kegged it was not the same,lacking that typical banana,clove bubblegum notes i got from the fresh wyeast pack.
The starter was only 500ml would a bigger starter help?? 
cheers


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## Tony

firstly on eff calcs....... I have not counted the unconverted starch particled from wheat or pils but id say its fairly even.

In the mash the enzymes are washed into the liquid, hence why its good to mash thick..... more exposure of enzymes to starch. If you halve the enzymes in the mash, whats there is going to struggle to do the job on any starch...... and wheat or barley... its still starch, just less enzyme from all the raw wheat.

But we probably dont want full conversion....... if it all converted, the beer would be clear instead of that nice fluffy white colour from the haze. Low conversion also adds a certain mouth feel too i think.

So i say, cop the low conversion and fork out for an extra kg of malt 


On the yeast....... i smack the pack and when its done and swolen, i collect 2 15ml vials to store in the fridge for later on, and stick the rest in a starter.

This way i get 3 runs from a smack pack and its fresh yeast every time.

cheers


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## humulus

Thanks mate got some unc tobys,wyeast bel wit and raw wheat(thats the key i think!!) and a few days off time to punch another "bullshead wit" out!! :chug:


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## roger mellie

Hey Tony

Have you ever made this with torrified wheat? I had a go the other at a very similar recipe with torr wheat (couldnt get raw wheat) and had to put about 4 Volumes of CO2 to get any appreciable head.

Which has made pouring interesting.

Flavours are good - think I will double the coriander next time.

How do you carbonate your Wit?

Cheers

RM


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## lukasfab

can weyermann pale wheat and weyermann pilsner be used in this???
maybe be obvious but still new to brewing

cheers


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## Tony

roger mellie said:


> Hey Tony
> 
> Have you ever made this with torrified wheat? I had a go the other at a very similar recipe with torr wheat (couldnt get raw wheat) and had to put about 4 Volumes of CO2 to get any appreciable head.
> 
> Which has made pouring interesting.
> 
> Flavours are good - think I will double the coriander next time.
> 
> How do you carbonate your Wit?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RM



Roger...... i used unmalted wheat becasue thats what is used in a Witbier.......... its the main contributing factor to the beers apperance, aroma, flavour and tartenss.

I have not used torefied wheat, it may work but why use something thats not the true ingredient if your going to go to the trouble of brewing a beer like this?

Ross, and im sure other retailers too, sells unmalted wheat.... always has it in stock so no excuse 

Re carbonation........ i reved up the carb similar to what i do with a weizen. Perhaps the mash schedule you used didnt work with the torefied (pre geletinised) wheat. The mash schedules for wits are usually designed around difficult conversion and with a pre gelatinised malt...... this could go arse up.



lukasfab said:


> can weyermann pale wheat and weyermann pilsner be used in this???
> maybe be obvious but still new to brewing
> 
> cheers



I have not checked the numbers, but i have read weyermann pils does not have the dialastic power of other pilsner malts like BB or malt euro Pils for example

Malted pale wheat and raw whear only have their parent plant in common...... 2 different animals and if you want a "great" Wit..... use the propper malt and go with Joe White Unmalted wheat.

Its similar to asking if ale malt would be suitable to make a great Pilsner......... Its barley....... but its a differnt animal!


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## humulus

Tony im on 3rd gen 3944 belgian wit yeast and i just dont get the usual aromas and taste out of the fermenter that you originally get from a new smack pack.I used 30ml of yeast stepped up into a 2l starter.Do you use a new smack pack each brew?
Also i scored some raw Agrade wheat that they make bakers flour with,reckon that would go OK in your wit(got 40 bloody kgs of it!)
cheers Glenn


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## Tony

Hey Glenn.

I get the same issue with wheat yeasts like 3068 when repitched. They just dont perform the same.

I split the origional pack in 3, 2 vials for later and the rest of the smack pack in a starter. I then get 3 first gen brews from one smack pack, but i make 50 liter batches so thats 150L from a pack..... thats good enough value for money for me.

That wheat for bakers flour will have a very high protein content.... as is wanted in baking. Not sure how this will effect things, you can only try 

cheers


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## humulus

Cheers Tony just waiting on my vials to arrive, before i open my wit and farmhouse ale, :icon_cheers: ill let you know how the raw wheat performs when i use it!!!! :icon_cheers:


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## lukasfab

got this one in the fermenter for 36hrs, I had a look this morning and got some sulphur smell?
is this normal using forbiden fruit yeat pack


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## lukasfab

google search reveals that it can give some sulphur


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## Tony

yeah it can be stinky


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## lukasfab

hey Tony, done this brew and first taste still undercarbed but tasted very sweet?
OG was 1.049 and FG about 1.011-12
from memory I did a step mash that recommended in here by yourself

any thoughts?

oh and I used malted wheat not raw

thanks


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## Tony

Making this again today.

Only difference is i am giving Wey premium pils a try (preys it works), added 1.5% wey acidulated malt to try and get some conversion help from pH correction and using Malted oats instead of the uncle toby's quick oats.

Milled the oats 3 times cause they are quite slender and the husks stayed completely whole, and ran the raw wheat through twice

Also going to slightly increase the orange and coriander.

I'm really looking forward to it


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## Dan Pratt

Made my first witbier yesterday on the 20lt braumiester.

Wheat Malt - 48%
Premium Pilsner - 33%
Rolled Flaked Wheat - 15%
Acidulated Malt - 4%

Saaz Pellets - 39g for 60 mins

Mash schedule mashin @ 32 
52c for 20 mins 
66c for 90 mins 
72c for 30 mins
78c for 15 mins

Sparged 6.5litres at 76c, boiled for 90 mins. 

Added 7g of both coriander and zest peel a 5 mins left on the boil.

Got 1.050 into the fermenter and added Forbidden Fruit Wyeast straight from the smack pack at 23c, it's bubbling away lovely this morning at 20c.


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Tony said:


> Making this again today.
> 
> Only difference is i am giving Wey premium pils a try (preys it works), added 1.5% wey acidulated malt to try and get some conversion help from pH correction and using Malted oats instead of the uncle toby's quick oats.
> 
> Milled the oats 3 times cause they are quite slender and the husks stayed completely whole, and ran the raw wheat through twice
> 
> Also going to slightly increase the orange and coriander.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to it



Tony - I've been using wey pils for this and works fine with a bit of acid. Efficiency is still shit for me due to ongoing raw wheat drama. Last batch (40L) was 40% wey pils, 30% raw wheat, 20% wheat, 7% rolled oats and 3% acid. I still cant get good dried orange peel so have been using angus park mixed peel (orange and lemon). I used 100g and gave it a smash in the blender to open it up. Used 25g of coriander seed roasted. Last batch was gone in a blink of an eye. The peel I used gave it a real citrus punch - no need to add slice of lemon  
Cheers
BBB


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## Tony

Nice work BBB

The oat malt seemed to help, both by adding husk for draining / sparging ease, and extra enzyme to eat all the raw wheat, and a bit of acid malt to get the pH down.

I gave the raw wheat a good smash with a double tap through the mill to get some flour. Its bloody hard stuff and i could smell the belt on the mill when i was done

I got 70% efficiency and hit my targets exactly so I'm a happy boy.

Oh..... i also used 4 liters volume of gulls, mashed in at 55 deg for 15 min, infused up to 63 and raised the mash temp to 64 over an hour. Drained and batch sparged at 71 deg.

Its as pale as pale too


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## Dan Pratt

Hi Tony,
What's your ferment, secondary and conditioning schedule with this brew? 
I went without the brew bright also and just realises I used flaked wheat instead of flaked oats....
Pratty


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## Tony

Similar to any Belgian beer.

Start it cool at 19 deg and ramp it up 1 deg per day to 22 deg to keep the nasties to a minimum but give a bit of yeast character in there as well.

This is a "best drank fresh" brew.

I will let if finish, crash it to 4 deg for a few days to settle most of the yeast sludge, and rack it strait to the keg, carb and enjoy.

cheers


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## Dan Pratt

Thanks tony. I will do that.
It's quite hard to read the refractometer with this wort...do you find that or do you use a hydrometer?


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## Tony

I use a refract, but my wort was actually quite clear. No problems getting a reading.

I dont worry too much about exact SG's and FG's these days. As long as its close and drinkable im happy


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## stux

Tony,

RecipeDB is down 

Any chance you can repost the recipe?

Tia


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## FaanPret

Hi all.

Newbie here. Just a couple of questions:
Will anybody be so kind to post this recipe since the RecipeDB is down?

I deduct from the conversation that this recipe calls for raw wheat. Is this normal unmalted wheat - ie like it comes from the farm?

I love the look of the beer ....I also see it tastes like a 30IBU .... any way to bring that down a bit - I'm not big hop fan.

Thanks


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## Tony

I will post the recipe up in here tonight...... im off to work now.

Cheers


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## O-beer-wan-kenobi

Im looking to do Witbier for my next brew. Not sure when the Recipe DB will be up again, but if you could post the recipe for this one that would be great.....by the sounds of it this looks to be an awesome wit!

Cheers


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## Tony

hey folks

Here is the recipe

45% Pilsner malt
45% Joe White Raw Unmalted Wheat
10% Uncle Tobys Quick Oats
Rice gulls to taste as required


Saphire @ 45 min to 13 IBU
Saphire @ 5 min half gram per liter



0.5g / liter bitter orange peel @ 10 min
0.1g / liter bitter orange peel @ 5 min
0.5g / liter coriander seed @ 5 min



Mash in @ 52 deg for 10 min
Infuse to 65 for 45 min
infise to 71 for 15 min
mash out


ferment with forbiden fruit yeast. Start it cool and ramp the temp up a bit for some character.

I recently did another one and used oat malt as aposed to the quick oats. I got better efficiency, but its not as nice.

and account for an efficiency of around 10 to 15% less than you usually get.




FaanPret, its not a hoppy beer and certinly not bitter. It just doesnt come across as a sweet beer with a low bitterness due to the spicy yeast and the tartness from the raw wheat.

cheers


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