# Redback Clone



## batemanbrewer (7/7/10)

Hey guys, I'm wanting to try a clone of Redback Original Wheat.
A fantastic beer in my opinion.

This is my proposed recipe. If anyone has any comments please let me know.

Recipe: Redback Clone
Brewer: Mitch
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
TYPE: All Grain 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 27.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 21.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.50 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 52.63 % 
2.00 kg JW Pilsner (3.5 EBC) Grain 42.11 % 
0.25 kg Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 5.26 % 
20.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.6 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.2 IBU 
1 Pkgs Belgian Wheat Yeast (Wyeast Labs #3942) Yeast-Wheat 

I'm thinking about reducing the POR a little and add a little more Saaz to achieve the real citrus taste of Redback and lower the IBUs to 18 (apparently redback is 18)


(constructive) criticism welcome  

Mitch


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## batemanbrewer (8/7/10)

bump :icon_cheers: 

really want some feedback on this recipe guys.


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## Jimboley (8/7/10)

batemanbrewer said:


> bump :icon_cheers:
> 
> really want some feedback on this recipe guys.




I made a Redback clone, I used WB-06 with very good results.
And yeh dial back to maybe 10-15g POR or use Perle
Just my 2 cents
:drinks:


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## brettprevans (8/7/10)

did u do a search. 

redback brings up 5 pages of results. and at least one with redback in the title http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...&hl=redback 

serch & ye shall find


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## batemanbrewer (8/7/10)

cheers mate
the bloke at the LHBS told me WB-06 was a good way to go so I think I'll switch to that.
I want to stick to POR to keep it on recipe, the Redback bottle says POR and Saaz so I wanna stay with those 2.

Probably will dial the POR down a little though as the AA is a little higher than the beersmith default.

Thanks for the feedback


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## roger mellie (8/7/10)

batemanbrewer said:


> cheers mate
> the bloke at the LHBS told me WB-06 was a good way to go so I think I'll switch to that.
> I want to stick to POR to keep it on recipe, the Redback bottle says POR and Saaz so I wanna stay with those 2.
> 
> ...



I have never tried to make a Redback Clone - have had plenty of it at the Sail.

I just wouldnt use WB-06 - I think it will dry the finish too much. I would actually use an American Yeast as I think Redback is more of an American wheat. Maybe even US-05 - let the Wheat and Saaz shine through.

Just my 2c.

RM


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## jyo (8/7/10)

roger mellie said:


> I have never tried to make a Redback Clone - have had plenty of it at the Sail.
> 
> I just wouldnt use WB-06 - I think it will dry the finish too much. I would actually use an American Yeast as I think Redback is more of an American wheat. Maybe even US-05 - let the Wheat and Saaz shine through.
> 
> ...




I would be trying a hefe yeast personally, then crash chill or filter if you can. Redback gives off some subtle clove aromatics which you will miss with an ale yeast.

Cheers, John.


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## Thirsty Boy (8/7/10)

Looks good to me. If I was going to change it I would --

Vienna malt... meh. I think you could leave it out.

Yeast - I don't think that the Belgian Yeast is the appropriate choice. Redback is more of a German style Krstal Weizen. I would go with a true German Wheat yeast - probably Wyeast 3068. Its the Weihenstephan strain and I always find that particular Hefe to be quite clove oriented. In dry yeast I think the WB-06 I think is probably a good choice, From all reports its quite clove balanced. Clove balance is what you want - Redback is intensely phenolic and goes beyond clove into almost bacon/smokiness. A decent pitch of it to keep the banana esters under control a little and ferment at teh cooler end of the range for whatever yeast you choose.

Mash schedule - You want lots of clove, so perhaps consider a ferulic acid rest @ 43C. You want it to be at a slightly higher pH than normal mashing (5.7) so you would do the rest @ 43C - then - add whatever it is you would normally add to keep your pH at 5.2 after you step up to your main sacch rest.

And hope that Les the weizguy reads and answers this thread - cause he's the one who really knows.

TB


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## brettprevans (8/7/10)

Remebering back to drinking RB I recon Jyo and thirsty r dead on.


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## batemanbrewer (12/7/10)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm putting it down tomorrow with the recipe as is. I'm going to employ thirsty boy's mash schedule though.

On wednesday I think I'll put down the same but with Wyeast 3068 to do a comparison. I'll also have to try without the vienna somewhere down the line.

@CM2 I wanted feedback on this recipe not anyone elses

Thanks :icon_cheers:


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## roger mellie (12/7/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> Remebering back to drinking RB I recon Jyo and thirsty r dead on.



Regarding the yeast - I knew I had read this before somewhere - a quick google...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/lifestyle/fo...x-1111112478490

I would definitely use US-05.

RM


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## batemanbrewer (13/7/10)

roger mellie said:


> Regarding the yeast - I knew I had read this before somewhere - a quick google...
> 
> http://www.couriermail.com.au/lifestyle/fo...x-1111112478490
> 
> ...



Cheers Roger

I'm not trekking back to the LHBS tomorrow, gonna do an early brew but 05 will definitely be the go for the next attempt

i like the cristal but i havent tried the crema one, are they still making them both? what do you guys think about them?


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## Thirsty Boy (13/7/10)

If you want to do the Cristal - then maybe US05.. but in that article (and I know it was) they do say the Cristal uses a lager yeast. So maybe a lager yeast instead?

They also do specifically refer to the original redback as a "German Style Wheat Beer" - so...... why would you not use a German style wheat beer yeast to make it?

The Crema was an average beer... not bad but not great. Unique in that it was a beer with a distinct coffee character, but it was a pale beer rather than a dark beer. The marketing said they were shooting for something that was to a coffee stout as a cafe late is to an espresso. I think they did that rather well, just that the finished beer didn't blow your socks off thats all.


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## mje1980 (13/7/10)

roger mellie said:


> Regarding the yeast - I knew I had read this before somewhere - a quick google...
> 
> http://www.couriermail.com.au/lifestyle/fo...x-1111112478490
> 
> ...




Why definately 05? The article just says the original uses an ale yeast. I just had a 6 pack this weekend, and although im no wheat beer expert, i'd be using a wheat yeast for this beer.


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## rendo (13/7/10)

Hey BB,

YOu can adjust the AA for the hops you have within beersmith. I do this all the time, takes out the guess work. No reason to keep it as default, they just had to go with an average when writing the program. 

rendo



batemanbrewer said:


> Probably will dial the POR down a little though as the AA is a little higher than the beersmith default.


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## batemanbrewer (13/7/10)

rendo said:


> Hey BB,
> 
> YOu can adjust the AA for the hops you have within beersmith. I do this all the time, takes out the guess work. No reason to keep it as default, they just had to go with an average when writing the program.
> 
> rendo



Yeah I know, I posted on the forum before I bought the hops so I just used the beersmith defaults.

I'll let you know how the experimenting goes guys :icon_drunk:


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## beerdrinkingbob (21/8/10)

batemanbrewer said:


> Yeah I know, I posted on the forum before I bought the hops so I just used the beersmith defaults.
> 
> I'll let you know how the experimenting goes guys :icon_drunk:




Hey BB, how did the redback turn out? :drinks:


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## Weizguy (21/8/10)

mje1980 said:


> Why definately 05? The article just says the original uses an ale yeast. I just had a 6 pack this weekend, and although im no wheat beer expert, i'd be using a wheat yeast for this beer.


Weizen yeast is an ale yeast. IMO, the W3638 is the right yeast for this beer.

Also, see this link for more redback goodness


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## ledgenko (21/8/10)

I am thinking that citra may work well if chasing the citrus in redback???


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## mje1980 (21/8/10)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Weizen yeast is an ale yeast. IMO, the W3638 is the right yeast for this beer.
> 
> Also, see this link for more redback goodness




Hey les, im aware that, i was replying to the post that stated they would definately use us-05 for a clone. Not much wheatyness in US05 haha.


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## roo_dr (23/12/16)

Any word on how this turned out - OK, it's 6 years later....


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (23/12/16)

I don't hold much hope, what's been mentioned so far is not very close to the recipe for Redback.

55% JW wheat, 45 % JW pale, nothing else.

Mash in with a 10 min protein rest, ramp to 63, ramp to 68, mash out at 74. Adjust times as needed to get an OG of about 11.5 and an FG of about 2.5. With modern malts you probably don't need any time at 63. You may need to add glucanase to get acceptable lauter performance, depending on the wheat glucan levels.

Nothing fancy and certainly nothing American in the hops: a neutral bittering hop at 90 minutes and 0.5 g/l Hallertau* at 5 minutes to get 18 IBU.

Pitch at 15 oC with W 68 and free rise to top heat of 23.5 oC**, the ferment must not have a depth of more than 2 metres (thus a horizontal fermenter is required for large volumes). Rack off the yeast and condition at 0oC, Isinglas fine*** then bottle condition with W 34 to achieve 6 g/l CO2. Add PGA as needed to achieve appropriate head retention.

After the lactic incident it went to "Kristal" which was the same thing sterile filtered then in line carbonated to 6 g/l.



*This is from my increasingly faulty memory, I was doing this nearly 30 years ago. It might have been Saaz but I doubt it, in those days Saaz was the most expensive hop on the market and mostly used in the pilsener.

** This is based on 100 hl batches: It's hard to achieve the profile in a small vessel where you don't get as much heat retention, the rise took a few days.

***I forget the rate.


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## welly2 (24/12/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> I don't hold much hope, what's been mentioned so far is not very close to the recipe for Redback.
> 
> 55% JW wheat, 45 % JW pale, nothing else.
> 
> ...


According to Matilda Bay, it's hopped with PoR - 

https://www.matildabay.com.au/product/redback

But as you say - Pale Malt, Wheat Malt and 18 IBUs.


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## roo_dr (31/12/16)

Thanks! 

I should have checked here before my post minutes ago

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93617-reddish-backed-clone/


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## roo_dr (10/1/17)

Now I'm tempted to dry hop... quick someone say no!!


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## jyo (10/1/17)

No! Let the yeast be the hero!


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## Doctormcbrewdle (18/12/17)

I'm going to throw this one down within the next month (got a pale ale malt bill pre-milled before)

100% pilsner malt
POR bittering to 18ibu @ 60
Hallertau Mittelfruh to 5ibu @ 5
WB-06

Nice and simple. No wheat.. (hmmm)
Half considering 50% ale malt but not sure


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## Doctormcbrewdle (30/12/17)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Looks good to me. If I was going to change it I would --
> 
> Vienna malt... meh. I think you could leave it out.
> 
> ...



Spot on with the bacon regards. I used to drink Redback religiously and remember giving one to a mate who said "tastes like ham!" He now says regularly: Made any ham beers lately?


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## Doctormcbrewdle (13/1/18)

Well I finally came across a Redback at the bottleo today so picked one up. $5 later.. I wasn't near as impressed as I once was years ago before brewing. It's a quaffable drop but a touch unrefined, or maybe it wasn't very fresh, who knows for sure.

Anyhow, upon tasting I'd say from experience we're talking 50/50 ale malt and malted wheat. I say ale because of colour and sweetness, which is just what I get making pilsner with ale malt. Some strain of hefe yeast and about 25-30ibu with part of that present as a late addition. Yes, I understand that seems high for a hefe but it's definitely what I'm getting

Cheers


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## Doctormcbrewdle (13/2/18)

Well, I'm now down to the last 4 bottles of this one: 50-50 unmalted wheat and pilsner malt, w/- 50gms Master foods crushed coriander seed. 25gms would have been perfect and double that too strong which gave a bitter overtone to the finished product. It's mellowed alot and fantastic now though but still a bit too much.

I used WB06 which has perfect aroma. Just like a Redback except not as malty with the pilsner malt.

15ibu at 60 and 6ibu Hallertau at 10

3 weeks on it turned into a kristallweizen. Absolutely crystal clear and a really nice drop. I'd say with ale malt the two would be indistinguishable


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## Weizguy (13/2/18)

You people want a beer to taste like Redback, but cannot be bothered doing any research, or listening to the experts?
Redback contains NO fkn coriander, No Citra, No Pils malt.
It used to be hefe, but now is Kristall and greatly suffers for it.
See Lyrebird_Cycles post above, coz it sounds like he was brewing the real stuff.
This is still a difficult style to master, and I've been working on it for years.
Doctormcbrewdle, thanks for posting results, like more brewers should.

Weizguy out


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## Doctormcbrewdle (26/2/18)

Cheers Weiz, well said

Just a quick update and some observations on Redback itself for anyone who may be looking into something similar

"Redback Australian wheat beer" is now C.U.B's take (previously Matilda Bay) on an "Australian" witbier. The Australian parts being: Aus BB Ale malt, rather than EU pilsner malt, 50% wheat and a higher IBU incorporating Australian hops over EU

It gets away with the higher than standard bitterness due to the caramelly BB Ale malt being sweeter, so balances nicely being higher. Quite a different wit really, but still of course using traditional wit yeast to impart the characteristic esters typical of the style

Just milled up 50/50 BB Ale malt/ Weyerman malted wheat ready for brew day in the coming days. Still deciding on IBU, water and acid

Will update


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## Wobbly74 (26/2/18)

Made a batch with a combination of gladfield ale and bests wheat. 60 minute super pride bittering addition and saaz in the whirlpool. Wb-06 yeast held at 21.5C for 6 days. Not bad!


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## Doctormcbrewdle (21/3/18)

Update: Well I've been bottled about 10 days now and decided to pick up a Redback on the way home to A/B

Well, how'd you go? (Redback pictured on right)

Redback is not what it used to be.. I think they're using something like Munich or something to add this strange sweetness. It's just not what I remember it being and tipped the last 1/3rd or so and went back to mine. Meh, C.U B have stuffed this one I think. It's still an ok commercial drop for those unaware but coinesseurs won't be pleased

I prefer mine but it is a tadd 'tart'. I think it may be an attribute of WB06 but next time will try less bittering (I went to 18ibu) and more chloride


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