# First 100% brett c beers



## mje1980 (3/7/15)

Hey guys, I've done a few funky and sour beers, but never brewed with just Brett. 

I've got a peated porter going right now with Brett c, and starting a starter for an IPA with Brett c. 

Both beers are around 1.060, and both will get a 2.5 litre starter on the stir plate for 36 hrs. From reading, it seems I may be under pitching a bit but I don't have a bigger flask. Hopefully I might get a little extra flavour from the under pitch, though I'd be happy if it ferments out quickly instead. I've got the heat belt on the fermenter as it seems Brett likes it warm. 

Will update, good or bad. Again, from reading, 3-4 weeks seems like a reasonable timetable for fermentation. I have a brew club event at the end of August and I want to inflict them onto the brew club, if they're not horrible haha.

Any tips, advice from anyone who's done 100% Brett beers?


----------



## Reman (4/7/15)

From what I've read you're looking at more like 3-4 months for straight brett, maybe someone else can chime in?


----------



## mje1980 (4/7/15)

Where did you read that?. For brett added as a secondary yeah it takes a while, but the reading I've done suggests brett as the sole fermenting organism is much quicker. Mind you, I did most of my reading on the internets, so **** knows how much truth there was to what I'd read


----------



## mje1980 (5/7/15)

So far the first batch has shown signs of fermentation. Small krausen. The heat belt is doing a good job of keeping it nice and warm. 

2nd starter is much more active than the first so after roughly 36hrs it's got a nice krausen going so I'm going to pitch this ( the IPA ) in about half an hour ( waiting for iodophor to do its job ).

No weird funky smells, more bready than anything really.


----------



## Reman (5/7/15)

It's the impression I get from reading Randy Moshers Mastering Homebrew

"Other beers with Brettanomyces are often aged because that yeast is a slow-acting critter that may take many months to develop full flavor."

Great article with some good all-Brett tips here http://byo.com/grains/item/2848-brettanomyces-tips-from-the-pros


----------



## TimT (5/7/15)

I've got a wild yeast that must be some kind of Brett and, well, it's both fast acting and slow acting.

Figures for my Brett IPA that I entered into our club comp this year are something like this:

First two weeks - went down from 1.060 to 1.010.

But - after that it slowed down, got a pellicle, and then

Next two months - went down from 1.010 - 1.005.

And it's still chewing away at stuff; I collected the yeast cake and it's in a jar in my living room(!) at the moment (interesting conversation piece for guests, maybe - a kind of brewers' lava lamp?). Got another pellicle and every few days I have to open the jar to burp it!

So basically it's a very dynamic ingredient; nothing ever stays the same with it. I'd say commercial Brett yeasts are probably similar to this in some ways. The thing is Brett is just very tough and adaptable; I'm told given time as it chews through all the different types of malt sugars and starches it will start doing weird things like developing lactic acid flavours; it's worth being patient with it.


----------



## mje1980 (5/7/15)

Nice article. I understand the time factor for flavour development, the beers Ive done with brett in secondary I've left for months before bottling, except for when adding orval dregs at bottling. When brett is by itself though, while the flavour development may still take a few months, I've seen people who brew them claim fermentation is done in a matter of weeks. 

You've reminded me I've got the book about funky organisms. Wild brews I think. I'll dig it out and re read it


----------



## dent (5/7/15)

I did some all brett C beers some years ago. They had the brett stink, and fermented out well enough. They were drinkable, but they were nothing as enjoyable as a proper sour beer. From what I recall, the wort recipes were pretty much Belgian pale styles - blonde/tripel with the brett to ferment.


----------



## TimT (5/7/15)

I'm sure you can drink in a couple of weeks, but I think Brett will just keep going if you let it. What's the 'Brett stink'? My yeast does throw off a few esters, had an unfortunate reek of nailpolish (ethyl acetate) in the first few starters I did of it (which I'm assuming is partly through stress), and once - intriguingly - gave off a strong bready vibe.


----------



## TimT (5/7/15)

An interesting and very useful article, thanks Reman. One intriguing thing you could do with a Brett beer is wait until it has a relatively low gravity - 1.005 or so - and then bottle without bothering to carb it in any way. The Brett will keep on working in the bottle and in a couple more months you'll get a carbed beer! Maybe I should try that sometime. I don't mind bulk priming brews but if I can skip a step that will limit the possibility of oxidisation or infection.


----------



## mje1980 (12/7/15)

Well, they're both fermenting. Dark beer is 1.044 from 1.063, IPA is 1048 from 1.057. Not super quick but they are fermenting. On further reading I probably should've given the starters a good week to build up a good population. I'll do that next time. 

I've got a vial of yeast bay lochristi, and when I've done these 2 beers I'll do another batch, this time something simple, like a blonde, and make sure I've got a good healthy starter going before pitching.


----------



## mje1980 (22/7/15)

So far both beers are around 1.034. I got scared with the IPA as it seemed slow and added a starter of Irish ale, so I cheated with that one. Interestingly, they are both pretty much the same gravity right now. 

Smells of tropical fruit in both, though a bit muted in the porter. The peated malt is quite dominant hehe. 


Been doing more reading, and found a PDF from Chad yacobson, which mentions when doing 100% Brett, the starter needs more time than the usual 24-48 for a sacch strain, more like a week. Next time I'll give the starter at least 5 days.


----------



## primusbrew (22/7/15)

Mje, I was listening to this recently: thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/866

Chad Yacobson talking about 100% brett fermentations. It is well worth listening to if you haven't already. He definitely says that the growth rate is much slower for brett and that a week long starter is required. They also talk about brett having poor flocculation, so may not be a good idea to decant the starter. 

I am currently planning my first 100% brett beer and starting to feel more confident. 

What were your grain bills like in the two beers?


----------



## mje1980 (22/7/15)

Thanks for the link mate, I'll look it up when I'm not in night shift zombie mode 

Porter was pretty straight forward, with the addition of some peated malt. Love that in dark beers. Mashing was relatively normal. 1.063 

IPA was just pils and a touch of carapils, with one bittering charge and a big whack of wakatu flowers in the cube. Mashed as I normally would as well. 1.057 

I can give you exact details if you want.
I just brewed as normal, just to see what happens though I've seen people add oats etc for some body. I like the beers I've done with Brett in secondary but the appeal of 100% Brett is a reasonably faster fermentation, weeks rather than months, and for something different. 

Will update, let us know if you do it


----------



## mje1980 (29/7/15)

Both now down to 1.014 each. Both are quite dry, more than I'd expected but tasting ok. Going to give it another week and do another gravity reading. If stable I'll dry hop the IPA to buggery for week or two


----------



## drsmurto (4/8/15)

I've brewed a few milds and IPAs using WLP644 Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Trois as the primary yeast. Great pineapple esters, no funk. Really adds somehting interesting to the beers, particulary hop forward styles (my milds tend to be low gravity but with a decent whack of hops, often only 10 min additions, no bittering). The best tip I got when brewing with brett in primary is to pitch at lager rates, so big starters. Some acidulated malt (5%) also helps to push the esters from what I've read.

Only issue I've had is that the keg used for these beers has slowly developed the brett funk. Forgot about it and ended up with a distincty bretty stout after it spent 4 months in the keg. The beers brewed with brett get drained in weeks so no chance for the brett to take a hold.


----------



## 2much2spend (5/8/15)

This topic Sound awesome . is there any good books to read up on Brett beers? 
Recommendations ?


----------



## mje1980 (5/8/15)

I just got American sour beers. There's a chapter on 100% brett beers. Generally use a bigger starter than normal ( some say lager sized ), and some say leave the starter longer ( a week ). I did a starter for these but only left 48hrs on the stir plate. About a month in they're nearly done. I added Irish ale to the IPA as it seemed slow but the porter seems to have ticked along. Next one I'll use a bigger starter and see ( I did 2.5 litre this time for 1.058-60 beers so might've been a bit short there ) how it goes in a standard gravity beer ( 1.042-45 )


----------



## Liam_snorkel (5/8/15)

I wish people would stop equating brett with sours (not directed to anyone in particular, just a general irk).

I've done a handful of 100% brett beers, using blends from the yeast bay. the Beersel blend was my favourite.
+1 for reading / listening to every word that comes out of Chad Yakobson's mouth. There's a 2 part recording on youtube which is gold.

RE Brett C - Sim & Brendan from Brisbane brewing Co used it in a 100% brett black IPA with a 6 week turnaround, tasted awesome, heaps of fruity funk.

Pointers I've picked up (pretty much exclusively from chad's material):
- if you don't want a 'tart' tasting beer, don't aerate your wort much (or at all), as brett will shit out acetic acid when it eats enough oxygen.
- don't bother trying to promote body in the beer by mashing high or adding lots of crystal, it will just slow down the fermentation process. Use proteins ie unmalted wheat, oats, rye, spelt, as the brett will eat this last after chomping on all the sugars.
- pitch warm, pitch big if possible
- brett will chew through the first stage of fermentation almost as fast as sacc, ie you'll get down to ~70-80% attenuation after a week or two with healthy fermentation. it will then keep going, slowly.


----------



## mje1980 (5/8/15)

Awesome stuff mate. When you add oats etc for body, doesnt brett eventually break them down in time?. I guess I'm asking, why add them for body if they'll eventually be broken down anyway? Wouldn't that just add extra time to the ferment with the same result?. 



I reckon I'm not far off brewing everything with brett, either 100% or sach primary then brett secondary.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (5/8/15)

I basically got that from Chad's appearance in that podcast, i think he mentioned it in the youtube video too (will have to revisit it) - essentially, proteins are there to add to the _perception_ of body, not actual final gravity, and are last on the menu.. but yeah, they will be broken down _eventually_.

EDIT:

aforementioned vids.

Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjVOzBtE27Y

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swv294Xkbq8


----------



## mje1980 (5/8/15)

Cheers mate. 

Just transferred the porter into glass. Didn't want to waste the yeast cake so I put a cube of mild onto it. Not sure how splashing the cube into the fermentor will affect things but we'll see. I'll keg the mild.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (5/8/15)

sounds delicious.
my brett fermenter is currently idle, NEED TO BREW!


----------



## Fourstar (5/8/15)

Reman said:


> From what I've read you're looking at more like 3-4 months for straight brett, maybe someone else can chime in?


Using Brett B for 100% of the yeast bill took 9 months before i got any real decent acidity for a brett IPA i had planned. when it was at 'terminal' 1 month after pitching @ 1.004 there was no funk. only once it got to 1.001 after 9 months there was significant 'brett' character.

time is money for Brett beers IMO.


----------



## drsmurto (5/8/15)

Fourstar said:


> Using Brett B for 100% of the yeast bill took 9 months before i got any real decent acidity for a brett IPA i had planned. when it was at 'terminal' 1 month after pitching @ 1.004 there was no funk. only once it got to 1.001 after 9 months there was significant 'brett' character.
> 
> time is money for Brett beers IMO.


If you want funk, yes. If you want to add an extra dimension to your beers without funk then no.

2 weeks primary, keg and drink. Tasty stuff! I need to fire that vial up and get some more 100% brett milds in me. Amazing in a low alcohol beer.


----------



## Fourstar (5/8/15)

DrSmurto said:


> If you want funk, yes. If you want to add an extra dimension to your beers without funk then no.
> 
> 2 weeks primary, keg and drink. Tasty stuff! I need to fire that vial up and get some more 100% brett milds in me. Amazing in a low alcohol beer.


after 'primary' i didnt notice much character at all. it was pretty neutral short of some fruit esters. Maybe thats just Brett B qualities vs C or other strains.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (5/8/15)

isn't brett B actually sacc.. or something?


----------



## manticle (5/8/15)

As far as I know it's brettanomyces bruxellensis, not saccharomyces cerivisae


----------



## Liam_snorkel (5/8/15)

Sorry, I was thinking of Brettanomyces bruxellensis Trois.


----------



## mje1980 (6/8/15)

The mild I pitched into the cake is fermenting nicely .


----------



## drsmurto (7/8/15)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Sorry, I was thinking of Brettanomyces bruxellensis Trois.


That's the one I use. Pineapple esters from primary. Love it in a mild, espiecally rye milds where the rye spice, combined with homegrown Victoria hops (mango, peach, citrus) work very well with the pineapple esters from Brett.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (7/8/15)

Awesome. Was just pointing out that they recently discovered it's actually saccharomyces. Fun times on the fringe of yeast biology


----------



## Fourstar (7/8/15)

yeah, the whitelabs Trois is a completely different beast compared to the brett b offered by wyeast. The Trois us commonly used as a 'quickfire' funk strain (Brett IPA's etc) which is where mine failed* using the wyeast strains. 

* I have dry hopped a growler of this beer for a couple of weeks and force carbed then aged for a fortnight in PET bottles. I ended up with a dangerously delicious funk IPA. Sadly it doesn't have the turnaround enjoyed with using the Trois strain so its unlikely i'd dedicate another 12 months to brewing this.


----------



## mje1980 (8/8/15)

Fourstar said:


> yeah, the whitelabs Trois is a completely different beast compared to the brett b offered by wyeast. The Trois us commonly used as a 'quickfire' funk strain (Brett IPA's etc) which is where mine failed* using the wyeast strains.
> 
> * I have dry hopped a growler of this beer for a couple of weeks and force carbed then aged for a fortnight in PET bottles. I ended up with a dangerously delicious funk IPA. Sadly it doesn't have the turnaround enjoyed with using the Trois strain so its unlikely i'd dedicate another 12 months to brewing this.


This is why I'm trying the 100% Brett beers. From reading of people who brew them often, if you make a good starter, they are meant to ferment out much quicker than adding Brett to secondary ( which produces great beers, just take a few months ). My first 2 are almost at fg after a month. I left my starters for 2 days, though people like Chad yacobson recommend leaving the starter for a week, he believes it's important. 

I think I'll do a double batch next, both batches will get lochristi ( yeast bay Brett blend ), one will get a 48hr starter, the other will get a 7 day starter.

If I can brew then to be ready to keg/bottle in less than 6 weeks I'll be happy. Mine were both around 1060 as well. Current mild that I pitched onto the yeast cake is 1.030, so I'll be interested to see how long it takes. It's had the heat belt on the whole time too. Will check gravity today.


----------



## mje1980 (8/8/15)

For bigger beers like Brett porters, I'm still quite happy to age them in glass for months, but to have some mid to average strength "everyday" Brett beers on tap is what I'm going for.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (8/8/15)

Bang on. The brett beers I've brewed from a repitch of slurry have been crazily active. Big krausen, lots of movement in the fermenter, OG drops just as fast a sacc strain for the first week or two (then creeps down). 
He's right that the flavour keeps changing after the initial fermentation though, as after its run out of sugars to eat and it starts on everything else (hop compounds etc). You get some really surprising results from really hoppy beers. Love it!


----------



## mje1980 (8/8/15)

I tried victory wild devil not long ago, a Brett IPA. You're right there, the hops and Brett played really well together.


----------



## TheWiggman (8/8/15)

mje1980 said:


> For bigger beers like Brett porters, I'm still quite happy to age them in glass for months


Considering they chew down slowly over a few months, how would you go about this? I'd imagine a few weeks in the primary down to 'terminal' gravity for the first phase, then bottle with little or no priming sugar. That way the extra few points it drops due to Brett activity will go towards carbonating the brew.


----------



## mje1980 (8/8/15)

I just let it sit for 2 months and check the gravity. If no change then I bottle. I carb medium and use champagne bottles. Wine Brewers add up to 15g of sugar to champagne ( per 750m ) so 5-10 for beer is fine.


----------



## mje1980 (10/8/15)

Mild hit 1.010 so I just kegged it, hoping to keep some body in it. It's had the heat belt on it the whole time. Fruity!


----------



## mje1980 (13/8/15)

Had a quick preview midway through carbing. You'd struggle to pick up any brett character in the mild haha


----------

