# Pseudo Pilsner Mini-mash Recipe



## piraterum (26/7/08)

Hey Guys,

I'm currently doing mini mashes and looking for some recipe ideas for a fake pils using equipment/method as per below

Equipment:
7.5L mash tun
15L stockpot

Ingredients:
2kg grain
2.5kg liquid malt extract
Hop pellets
liquid yeast - using an ale yeast instead of a true lager yeast to simplify the process 

Mashed for 60min at 66 deg. Brewing efficiency est = 66% Est boil volume = 7-8L. Extract added for last 15min of 60 min boil.


I'm thinking something along the lines of:

1.8kg Pilsner malt (Weyermann)
0.2kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine
1.5kg Extra Pale Liquid Extract (e.g morgans blendmasters range extra pale extract)
1kg Lager extract (e.g morgans blendmaster range lager extract)

21g 7.60% AA Northern Brewer (60min)
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (60min)
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (40min)
30g 4.0%AA Saaz (20min)

Wyeast 1007 German Ale fermented at 15-16 degrees

OG est = 1.052
FG est = 1.014
Colour est = 11.4 EBC
Est IBU = 40.3


Does this look ok? Is northern brewer a suitable bittering hop? 


Any suggestions for alternative recipes also greatly appreciated :icon_cheers: 


cheers,

piraterum


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## PostModern (26/7/08)

Looks fine to me. Don't change a thing. NB is a great bittering hop.


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## Ross (26/7/08)

piraterum said:


> liquid yeast - using an ale yeast instead of a true lager yeast to simplify the process
> 
> Does this look ok?
> 
> ...



Recipe looks good - My only comment would be to change the liquid Ale yeast to a dried lager yeast if you don't want to use a liquid one.
Swiss Lager (S-189) would be perfect for this beer & will tolerate higher temps if this is an issue for you.

cheers Ross


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## piraterum (26/7/08)

Ross said:


> Recipe looks good - My only comment would be to change the liquid Ale yeast to a dried lager yeast if you don't want to use a liquid one.
> Swiss Lager (S-189) would be perfect for this beer & will tolerate higher temps if this is an issue for you.
> 
> cheers Ross




Thanks for the feedback.

The rationale behind using an ale yeast is to avoid having to do the whole lagering process correctly with low/slow fermentation followed by an extended lagering process. I'm prepared to sacrifice the lager characteristics a little in exchange for a quicker fermentation & maturation period


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## braufrau (26/7/08)

did you see this thread ... linky

I'm tempted to try the swiss lager yeast next year!


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## mika (26/7/08)

Looks the goods, think your predicted FG is a little high. You've still got extract inthere but with that low mash temp on the grain it should come in lower. To really 'fake' a lager you'll want a little more attenuation and get the beer down below 1010.


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## Hargie (26/7/08)

i'd change a bit...if you are gonna brew at 15c why not use a koelsch yeast ie WL 029 or wyeast 2565....or even dry US-O5....

....even better use a lager yeast at 8-10c, be patient and get the beer you really want.....Wyeast 2007 will do a great job with all that mars-bar beer extract you are going to use....

...halve the cara pils.....mash at 63-64c....pilsners are clean, dry and bitter....pull the ibu back to 35-36 to balance..

..good luck..


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## braufrau (27/7/08)

So if I were to use this S-189 and stick it in a dark bit of the garden ... would it mind if the T fluctuated between 0 and 14 do you think?


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## Adamt (27/7/08)

Stick it in a dark part of the garden wrapped in blankets 

Less fluctuations means a happier yeast.


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## braufrau (27/7/08)

Adamt said:


> Stick it in a dark part of the garden wrapped in blankets
> 
> Less fluctuations means a happier yeast.




Or maybe lots of bubble wrap ... wont matter so much when it rains.


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## Ross (27/7/08)

braufrau said:


> So if I were to use this S-189 and stick it in a dark bit of the garden ... would it mind if the T fluctuated between 0 and 14 do you think?



Braufrau,

You don't want it dropping that cold - just put in the coldest room of the house - Appears to ferment fine from 9c to 20c.

cheers Ross


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## braufrau (27/7/08)

OK. Even easier!


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## Timmsy (11/9/08)

Am thinking at giving this recipe ago as a partial on the weekend to get my brewing fix as im waiting for work to be done and to buy some AG equipment for my 1st AG.

Just wandering can i substitute the extra pale malt extract for say 1kg or pale malt (grain) or something along them lines?

How did the pilsner turn out Pseudo?


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## whitegoose (10/12/09)

Okay, I'm also planning a pseudo-pilsner partial mash and I just wanted to check a couple of things. Here's the recipe:

2.0kg Pilsner malt (Weyermann)
0.1kg Carapils
1.5kg Liquid Light Malt Extract
0.5kg Dry Light Malt Extract

25g 3.6% Saaz @60
25g 5.6% Tettnanger @60
30g 3.6% Saaz @40
30g 3.6% Saaz @20
5g 3.6% Saaz @10

US-05 yeast, fermented 18 degrees or lower (as low as I can get - hopefully 16)

OG 1.050 (doubt I will hit this)
FG 1.013
IBU 33.2 (calculated using HCF)
EBC 9.3
ABV 4.9%

So some questions...

How is the hop schedule looking? The tettnanger has been sitting in my fridge, stored correctly, for about a year so I figured it would still be okay for bittering.

Should I use finings? I'm not going to be able to crash chill. I've never attempted to make a (pseudo)pilsner and want it to be as clear as possible.

What sort of temperature should I be aiming for in my partial mash? It's my first partial as well but I have an inkling you might want a different mash temp for pilsners as opposed to ales?

Thanks for you help!


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

whitegoose said:


> So some questions...
> How is the hop schedule looking? The tettnanger has been sitting in my fridge, stored correctly, for about a year so I figured it would still be okay for bittering.
> Should I use finings? I'm not going to be able to crash chill. I've never attempted to make a (pseudo)pilsner and want it to be as clear as possible.
> What sort of temperature should I be aiming for in my partial mash? It's my first partial as well but I have an inkling you might want a different mash temp for pilsners as opposed to ales?
> Thanks for you help!



Hop schedule looks good, if you want to use more of the saaz later in the boil, i'd opt for getting around 2/3 of your bittering from something neutral and high in AA like magnum @ 60 mins, then hop bomb it with the saaz late (20mins and less) to get the BIG saaz profile.

Hmm, if you have to use finings then use it but the best results are always had when using in cold temperatures, especially for collagen based finings like gelatine or isinglass.

i'd shoot for a low mash temp, say 64deg as the Extract with usually create a high finishing gravity.


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## Bribie G (10/12/09)

In my partial days I had good results with blonde kits instead of using liquid and dried malt extract. How about cutting out the 25g Saaz 60 mins and using a can of Morgans or Coopers Canadian instead of the malt extract? Should also give you a clearer beer as well. The one in the piccie had some carared in as well, because with a blonde kit you can go as light or as dark as you want. 





US-05 at 16 or 17 degrees is a cracker for a pseudo lager.
Edit: also looking back at an old post on this thread I would thoroughly agree with Ross about the dried lager yeast s-189, which many guys use up to 18 degrees and still make a presentable lager. It's my pet yeast at the moment and I run it at around 15 degrees - if you can get that low - and it finishes in about the same time frame as US-05


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## MarkBastard (10/12/09)

Bribie stop posting photos of beers, you always make me thirsty at inappropriate times hahaha.


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## Bribie G (10/12/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Bribie stop posting photos of beers, you always make me thirsty at inappropriate times hahaha.


  

I've just checked my S-189 brew that's in the dead fridge at the moment (Chinese Pale Pilsener International Style) and it's blooping away nicely at 14 degrees using three 2L frozen PETs changed AM and PM, worth the effort at the moment as its 35 degrees in Bris and 42 in the garage when shut up. So if you can get down to below 16 you can do a real lager in similar time frame to a pseudo. Also you can use Californian Lager yeast which tolerates higher temperatures. 

Also, something I've tried in the past and it's not too bad, is Mauribrew lager yeast sold as Morgans Lager yeast which can also ferment out in the same time as US-05


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## whitegoose (10/12/09)

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to stick with the US-05 because I'm not sure how low I'll be able to keep the temp and have brewed with it at 18 degrees with good results (that and I've already bought the yeast).

I would swap the bittering hops for something "bigger" but I want to get rid of some old hops. The Saaz are new, but I have some old Tettnanger and Hallertauer sitting around and I figure I may as well use the Tettnanger for bittering as it's kind of in style, and are probably too old to use as flavouring or bittering. 

Also, regarding the mash temp - if I were aiming for 64 deg, what temp would you suggest I heat my 10L water to if I were going to dump 2.1kg of grain in there? 66 degress?

And can anyone explain in a nutshell why i should "shoot for a low mash temp, say 64deg as the Extract with usually create a high finishing gravity"? Is it because lower mash temps make a more fermentable wort (lower finishing gravity) and this combined with the extract (higher finishing gravity) will kinda balance each other out to make a good finishing gravity?

Thanks again. I'm pumped to get this brew underway!!!


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## Fourstar (10/12/09)

whitegoose said:


> And can anyone explain in a nutshell why i should "shoot for a low mash temp, say 64deg as the Extract with usually create a high finishing gravity"? Is it because lower mash temps make a more fermentable wort (lower finishing gravity) and this combined with the extract (higher finishing gravity) will kinda balance each other out to make a good finishing gravity?



Exactomundo! To get 64deg (for me) i dump in 69-70deg water at a liquor to grist ratio of 2.8:1.


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## stm (11/12/09)

Strike temp calculator here:

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm


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## whitegoose (11/12/09)

stm said:


> Strike temp calculator here:
> 
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_o..._StrikeTemp.htm


Sweet - that's very informative. Shall I assume "malt temperature" is just the ambient temp at the time I dump iot into the pot?


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## MarkBastard (11/12/09)

whitegoose said:


> Sweet - that's very informative. Shall I assume "malt temperature" is just the ambient temp at the time I dump iot into the pot?



If it was stored in ambient then yes.


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## whitegoose (20/12/09)

So I ended up going with this recipe

2.0kg Pilsner malt (Weyermann)
0.1kg Carapils
1.5kg Liquid Light Malt Extract
0.4kg Dry Light Malt Extract
0.1kg Dextrose

10L Boil
17g 9.7% Centennial @60
30g 3.6% Saaz @40
30g 3.6% Saaz @20
10g 3.6% Saaz @10
Might dry hop 5g of Saaz into the fermenter

US-05 yeast, fermented 18 degrees or lower (as low as I can get - hopefully 16)

OG 1.047 (pretty happy with hitting this, mash obviously went alright!)
FG 1.012
IBU 37.8
EBC 9.3
ABV 4.6%

Everything went pretty well! My biggest problem now is keeping the fermentation temperature down as it is frigging hot in Perth at the moment.

I have attached the only photo I took, just because I took it.


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## Bribie G (20/12/09)

Mini BIAB, that's what we like to see :lol: 

At the risk of posting these pictures too often and becoming annoying, I have two fermenters on the go at the moment in the hot garage I posted above, both running at 19 degrees with two frozen 2L PET bottles swapped daily, but for 17 degrees I would change morning and night. For one fermenter you should get down to 17 comfortably. Currently they are running UK ale yeasts so 19 is fine. If you have freezer capability I would recommend this method which I have been using for 14 months now, even during the SEQ winter.

My dead fridge only has room for one fermenter and it's got a real lager in it at the moment so the doonah and towel system is my 'overflow' capability.








:icon_cheers:


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## whitegoose (20/12/09)

Do you get much condesation on the bottles? My wife doesn't want to let me use her sleeping bag because she doesn't want to get it wet 

At the moment I have my fermenter sitting in the laundry sink, with two 2L frozen PETs, with a wet towel draped over the fermenter, with a fan blowing on it. The water is about 20 degrees, hopefully I can get it lower, no idea what the temp is inside the fermenter (hopefully the towel and fan are helping)


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## whitegoose (8/1/10)

whitegoose said:


> So I ended up going with this recipe
> 
> 2.0kg Pilsner malt (Weyermann)
> 0.1kg Carapils
> ...



Just had a sneak-preview half pint of thus oput of the keg... SPECTACULAR!!! So stoked! The moment it goes near your face you get that classic pilsner/saaz waft - strong but not overpowering and the flavour is spot on the style. Partial mash - success!!

Not sure exactly why but it seems to have a _heap_ of body - more than my APA I have on tap now... possibly mashed too high a temperature? I'm pretty sure I had it at 64-65 tho, with a strike temp of 67-68. Anyway, it feels malty and delicious in my mouth so I won't complain...

Also is quite cloudy - hopefully that's only because it was the first pour of the keg pulling up some sediment off the bottom of the keg.

Bring on English Brown Ale, partial mash #2!!!

edit: by the way for those intersted, I didn't end up dry hopping, and it didn't need it


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## Fourstar (8/1/10)

whitegoose said:


> Just had a sneak-preview half pint of thus oput of the keg... SPECTACULAR!!! So stoked! The moment it goes near your face you get that classic pilsner/saaz waft - strong but not overpowering and the flavour is spot on the style. Partial mash - success!!
> 
> Not sure exactly why but it seems to have a _heap_ of body - more than my APA I have on tap now... possibly mashed too high a temperature? I'm pretty sure I had it at 64-65 tho, with a strike temp of 67-68. Anyway, it feels malty and delicious in my mouth so I won't complain...
> 
> ...



The body may be attributed to the carapils as its a dextrin malt coupled with the LME/DME. Carapils is used for increased body, malt aroma and great for dense foam. You may also be percieving extra body (and hop aroma) from the trub being sucked up into your pint glass for the 1st pour.

Glad your partial mash went well. Now you have just got to goto the darkside and become all grain 

Oh, the mash temp you used was on the cold side so that should have kept your body quite thin.

Cheers! :beerbang:


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