# Bitter Lager-possible Infection?



## Newbiebrewer (4/4/10)

Ok first post so here it goes.

I just made my first batch of homebrew(a Coopers lager) and not being very knowledgable on how beer should taste, I let some people have a taste. I was told that the lager was too bitter due to a possible infection. Is this correct and was buying a container of brigalow bottle santiser the right thing to do?

Thanks in advance


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## Yowster (4/4/10)

Hughezy,

What temperature did you ferment at, did you use the kit yeast and did you add anything else to the brew?
Sanitise everything that comes into contact with your beer after you do any kind of boiling of the wort. That is your fermenter any spoons bottles - everything. You will find people recomend and use many different kinds of sanitisers, however the main rule is sanitise, sanitise, sanitise.

Yowie


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## bum (4/4/10)

Any way you can be a bit more descriptive on the flavour you don't like? Bitterness is a good quality in a beer and not one that most infections taste like. Could you be confusing bitterness with vomit? If so, then maybe you have an infection - at this stage I'm seeing nothing to automatically suggest that you do. Post up a ridiculously detailed description of the entire brewing process and ingredients and someone should be able to suggest what the issue is.


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## Newbiebrewer (4/4/10)

Damn I hate being a slow typer, so many people posting while I am replying

Mark, I don't mind the taste, but 23 litres of brew when your the only one drinking it and you don't drink a whole lot it could take a while. I am mainly doing it for when I have to goto BBQ's and poker games saves me having to buy from the bottle-o. I am currently using a hot box to maintain a constant temp but i think the bulb might be too hot.

Bum, I'm not the one complaining about the taste, I'm a pretty lazy drinker in that way.

Yowie,

I was I used the kit yeast, added only what it said in the ingredient list and was fermenting at around 28C-32C. However there probably was some things that I missed when I was sanitising so I will do that next time.

Thank you for your advice.


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## MarkMc (4/4/10)

Hi and welcome

I also did a Coopers Lager as my first kit at Christmas. It didn't taste great. BUT 4-5 weeks in the cupboard conditioning then a few days in the fridge helped greatly.

What do YOU think of the taste? If you like it then its fine. 

I had a small clump of mold floating on top of my last brew, but it tasted ok to me, so I bottled it anyway. Time will tell with that one.

As Yowie said clean - then clean again. And try to keep the fermentation temps low and stable - I aim for around 20 degrees.


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## MarkMc (4/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> was fermenting at around 28C-32C.



OOOO there's the problem. - stick it in the garage for a few months then try tasting it again.


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## bum (4/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> was fermenting at around 28C-32C


 
Ah. This is most likely your problem. Any chance you could be mixing up rough alcohol flavours with bitterness? These temps are approximately 10 degrees C higher than what is usually considered ideal and this can make nasty types of alcohol. Had a big night on them yet? How's your head in the morning?


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## Newbiebrewer (4/4/10)

Again with the fast posts >.<

Nah like I said I'm not a heavy drinker but if it is propyl or butyl alcohol then that might be it. 

Mark roughly how long should I let it sit before the flavours will mellow a bit?

Also any tips with the hot box? Will a 25W light generate the right amount of stable heat?


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## bum (4/4/10)

Bloke, a hot box would really only need to be used a few months of the year even in Tassie. Rest of the year you need to focus on cooling. Nice beer, with a couple notable exceptions (none of them have a Coopers label on them), is brewed much cooler than the temps you've done. Think 18 to 20C. Some will suggest that high twenties is fine for Coopers ale yeast. I don't want to start an argument about that but I will say that my experience is that those temps are not ideal for that yeast (even if it is more forgiving of higher temps than some other yeasts).


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## MarkMc (4/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> Mark roughly how long should I let it sit before the flavours will mellow a bit?



My first brew (also Coopers Lager) was also fermented high at 26-28. SO I knwo the flavours you mean.

I drank a few after 2-3 weeks and wasn't too keen. But they just seemed to get better with age (either that or they slowly burned my taste buds away) I finished the last few bottles in early March so 2 months after bottling. The taste was still there but not as bad. If you can I would try leaving them even longer. 

Also - can I recommend a Cooper Draft for your next attempt. A few people on here recommend them for being very drinkable after only 2 weeks in the bottle, my Cooper draft only lasted a few weeks. even the mrs was guzzling it. just try to keep the temp down.


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## Newbiebrewer (4/4/10)

Ok so i need a cooling box, would a fridge that isn't plugged in keep those sort of temps?


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## Yowster (4/4/10)

Either a fridge that is not plugged in with a few plastic soft drink bottles filled with water then frozen, or what I do is have my fridge on a timer so that it comes on for two hours three times a day, others have a temperature controller that maintains a constant temperature. There are many ways to assist wit temperature control.

The 3 biggest things I've learnt in improving my beer, and I'm still a novice, is sanitation (done to death earler) temperature control, and using better yeast than those in the kits. I'm still yet to venture into the world of liquid yeasts, but that is the next jump. Even s04 or us05 will give you a better beer than the kit yeasts


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## Newbiebrewer (8/4/10)

I've noticed this with a few of my beers that there is some white gunk on the bottom of my bottles. I thought this was yeast but when I mix it up, the beer is not as bitter. Could it be sugar that has settled out of the beer?


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## warra48 (8/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> I've noticed this with a few of my beers that there is some white gunk on the bottom of my bottles. I thought this was yeast but when I mix it up, the beer is not as bitter. Could it be sugar that has settled out of the beer?




It won't be sugar, as any residual yeast will munch that up and turn it into carbonation.
It surely is yeast, and possibly some very minor break material or trub.
However, if it's white, it is yeast.


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## Newbiebrewer (8/4/10)

warra48 said:


> It won't be sugar, as any residual yeast will munch that up and turn it into carbonation.
> It surely is yeast, and possibly some very minor break material or trub.
> However, if it's white, it is yeast.



Noob question but what is trub?


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## manticle (8/4/10)

Easy explanation is shit that sinks to the bottom. It can refer to hop gunk after a boil, proteins that have dropped out of solution or flocculated yeast.


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## MarkMc (8/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> Noob question but what is trub?



Plant food - mine goes on the lime tree.


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## kelbygreen (8/4/10)

I fermented my first few brew around 26-30 and they was undrinkable. I now cannot see why I would pay $60 for a carton that I can brew 25lts for $45 doing extract that tastes better  (also most my beers are around 5-6%ABV). I have only done 4 kit beers so far 2 was throw away and the other 2 was good but not as good as when I went to extract. I think kit beers need longer in the bottle and lack the flavour (depends if you like the flavour of REAL beer or just brown water lol) but they still produce a very drinkable beer for the low cost, I just see it as I spend a bit more and get good beer that I like.

As said though there are alot of ways to improve kit beers best one out there is ferment at 18-20 deg and store for at least a month. Others include using good yeast, adding hops, changing ingredients maybe use 800g of light dry malt extract (LDME) and 250g of dextrose the ratios can be changed to what you like, You can also add steeped grains and other fermentables like honey and anything that will ferment and add flavours. As I say there is alot to do with kits that I didnt even try most of mine where just as the pack said or dry hopping a hop bag for aroma thats about as far as I went


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## Newbiebrewer (8/4/10)

kelbygreen said:


> I fermented my first few brew around 26-30 and they was undrinkable. I now cannot see why I would pay $60 for a carton that I can brew 25lts for $45 doing extract that tastes better  (also most my beers are around 5-6%ABV). I have only done 4 kit beers so far 2 was throw away and the other 2 was good but not as good as when I went to extract. I think kit beers need longer in the bottle and lack the flavour (depends if you like the flavour of REAL beer or just brown water lol) but they still produce a very drinkable beer for the low cost, I just see it as I spend a bit more and get good beer that I like.
> 
> As said though there are alot of ways to improve kit beers best one out there is ferment at 18-20 deg and store for at least a month. Others include using good yeast, adding hops, changing ingredients maybe use 800g of light dry malt extract (LDME) and 250g of dextrose the ratios can be changed to what you like, You can also add steeped grains and other fermentables like honey and anything that will ferment and add flavours. As I say there is alot to do with kits that I didnt even try most of mine where just as the pack said or dry hopping a hop bag for aroma thats about as far as I went



Yeah I'm only doing kit beers due to locality (nearest brewshop is about 2hrs away). But I might pop into woolies at some point in the near future see if the have any LDME on the shelf.


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## kelbygreen (8/4/10)

woolies here doesnt stock it but I seen it at big W I think it was they have dextrose LDME and the brew enhancer which is a mixture of malt, dextrose and maltodextrin (i think its called) I only used dextrose and malt. You can also get liquid malt thats 1.5kg I think and that is equivalent to 1kg of dry malt as its about 25% water I think


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## Newbiebrewer (8/4/10)

kelbygreen said:


> woolies here doesnt stock it but I seen it at big W I think it was they have dextrose LDME and the brew enhancer which is a mixture of malt, dextrose and maltodextrin (i think its called) I only used dextrose and malt. You can also get liquid malt thats 1.5kg I think and that is equivalent to 1kg of dry malt as its about 25% water I think



Yeah I live in a small town only got a woolies and a foodworks >.<. If I can getto townsville I will look around.


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## bum (8/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> (nearest brewshop is about 2hrs away)


 
Not sure if this excuse washes these days. Unless you've got to go as far for your mail, I guess.


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## unrealeous (9/4/10)

Hughezy said:


> Ok so i need a cooling box, would a fridge that isn't plugged in keep those sort of temps?


A really simple way to cool your fermenter is to wrap it in a wet towel and re-wet the towel every day or so. You can also adjust your temperature by how much wet towel you have over the fermenter - or if you really want to cool it further, put a fan onto it (but you'll need to re-wet it more often).


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## Newbiebrewer (9/4/10)

unrealeous said:


> A really simple way to cool your fermenter is to wrap it in a wet towel and re-wet the towel every day or so. You can also adjust your temperature by how much wet towel you have over the fermenter - or if you really want to cool it further, put a fan onto it (but you'll need to re-wet it more often).



Well I got an old barfridge at the moment which isn't doing anything all I got to do is put a new thermistor in it but for my other fermenters I will give the wet towels a go.


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## Newbiebrewer (9/4/10)

bum said:


> Not sure if this excuse washes these days. Unless you've got to go as far for your mail, I guess.



Yeah good point will probably end up ordering through the net and getting it sent to me.

(sorry for the double post but I couldn't find the edit button)


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## bum (11/4/10)

There is really no reason to worry about the possible pitfalls of ordering from the board's sponsors. I've only used two personally but both delivered great products in a timely fashion and if you plan your order with postage in mind you can even get the prices better than your closest LHBS.

Your beer will thank you too.


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