# Using rolled oats instead of flaked barley



## Thanos

Hi,
I wanted to ask if I can substitute flaked barley with rolled oats in a recipe for a dry stout?
If so, should I replace it in 1:1 ratio?
If not, then what should I replace flaked barley with?


----------



## hoppy2B

You could probably replace flaked barley with normal roasted barley. Oats may work well in a stout but will give a different mouthfeel. If you sub at a 1 to 1 ratio you will get a similar gravity. I'm no expert, maybe check out some of the stout recipes in the data base.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

Sorry hoppy that is bulltish....... OP is a lot closer to the mark, however your comment about mouthfeel is correct, oats gives me a silky slick feeling in my mouth.


----------



## Bribie G

Too many oats can introduce oils that can be a head killer, but for smaller quantities, say a couple of hundred grams, you should be ok. In fact I was going to put 200 or 300 in my stout yesterday but couldn't be bothered to walk round to BiLo B)


----------



## Midnight Brew

Bribie G said:


> Too many oats can introduce oils that can be a head killer, but for smaller quantities, say a couple of hundred grams, you should be ok. In fact I was going to put 200 or 300 in my stout yesterday but couldn't be bothered to walk round to BiLo B)


Spot on. I used 10% in an amber ale once mashed with a protein rest and all. The head vanishes quickly and I also noticed it didnt age as well. The oats never took over but they just didnt mellow nicely with the malt.

Any recommendation on what %'s to use in certain styles?


----------



## dr K

I use Malted Oats. For an ale I would between none and 3% though up to 5% should be OK, particularly in a darker beer.
Irish Stout traditionally used, along with malted barley, unmalted and roast unmalted barley as the British Gov had imposed a high tax on malted grains. You can also use small amounts of cracked barley from a stock food supplier.

K


----------



## Thanos

This is the grain bill in the recipe I'm trying to do:

2.68 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) 63.1 % 
1.04 kg Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 24.4 % 
0.47 kg lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) 11 % 
0.06 kg Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) 1.5 %

the flaked barley is 24.4 % in the recipe, so if I will substitute it with rolled oats it will be more than 10%.
should I replace it with rolled oats and some other type of malt so it won't cause head problems?


----------



## hoppy2B

Try some of the stock fodder stores. I think flaked barley is something they may carry.


----------



## hoppy2B

Thanos said:


> Hi,
> I wanted to ask if I can substitute flaked barley with rolled oats in a recipe for a dry stout?
> If so, should I replace it in 1:1 ratio?
> If not, then what should I replace flaked barley with?


I just looked on the BrewAdelaide website and they have flaked barley. Have you checked any of the other retailers on here to see if they have it? 
You can always replace flaked barley with flaked barley. :blink:


----------



## jyo

hoppy2B said:


> I just looked on the BrewAdelaide website and they have flaked barley. Have you checked any of the other retailers on here to see if they have it?
> You can always replace flaked barley with flaked barley. :blink:


So which do you recommend, Hoppy? City Farmers, or a homebrew shop? :blink:


----------



## O-beer-wan-kenobi

Is there anywhere you can get flaked barley in Perth?
I have found a stock feed supplier that sells it in 25kg bags which is way too much for what I want.


----------



## Rodolphe01

Last time I needed flaked barley I got it from a bulk food place (I.e. bins of stuff you scoop into bags). I'm pretty sure health food type places also carry it.

I don't think you want oats in a dry stout, maybe better off just not using it at all if you can't get any.


----------



## Rodolphe01

Also, I think you could use pearl barley (or unmalted barley) and cook it. Supermarkets sell pearl barley.


----------



## beers

Bribie G said:


> Too many oats can introduce oils that can be a head killer, but for smaller quantities, say a couple of hundred grams, you should be ok. In fact I was going to put 200 or 300 in my stout yesterday but couldn't be bothered to walk round to BiLo B)


I regularly use 200-250g of quick oats in my beers, & have gone up to as much as 500g on occasions. I've never found it to affect head formation or retention in an adverse way. I've actually found the opposite. It gives a nice big creamy, fluffy head, which is why I use it regularly.

Would make a good substitute for flaked barley in my opinion.


----------



## Let's Brew Beer

How do ya add the oats?...do ya just toss them in as is or what?


----------



## chewy

the difference between stockfeed and food grade is totally astounding... when a farmer plants barley or any crop they prey it goes food grade or hops grade (for barley) they dont just grow it. it has to have outstanding conditions.... no disease no mould and the right protein count..... stock feed grade is the absolute bottom of the barrel! would you eat dog food coz ive worked in abattoirs and i can tell you what that is too and it aint human consumption..... 



aint my 2c worth its fact...


----------



## felten

chewy said:


> would you eat dog food


it keeps my coat shiny


----------



## tanukibrewer

TWOC has flaked barley in Perth can buy it in 500g or 1kg sized bags.I use flaked barley in stouts up to 10 percent mainly for head retention,not sure what it gives to the mouth feel of the stout. Oats are good for mouth feel but in high levels can lead to an astringent taste in the beer and may affect head rentention.Not an expert but I like me stout.


----------



## benno1973

O-beer-wan-kenobi said:


> Is there anywhere you can get flaked barley in Perth?
> I have found a stock feed supplier that sells it in 25kg bags which is way too much for what I want.


Kakulis Bros in Northbridge sell flaked barley (or at least they used to)


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

So do I, depending where the OP lives, take your pick.
Nev


----------



## Maxt

tanukibrewer said:


> Oats are good for mouth feel but in high levels can lead to an astringent taste in the beer and may affect head rentention.Not an expert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stout.JPG


Oats do not lead to astringency.


----------



## NewtownClown

I use 500 grams in my Oatmeal Stout, toasted in the oven first, adds great flavour.
Never, ever have had problems with head retention or astringency


----------



## super_simian

chewy said:


> the difference between stockfeed and food grade is totally astounding... when a farmer plants barley or any crop they prey it goes food grade or hops grade (for barley) they dont just grow it. it has to have outstanding conditions.... no disease no mould and the right protein count..... stock feed grade is the absolute bottom of the barrel! would you eat dog food coz ive worked in abattoirs and i can tell you what that is too and it aint human consumption.....
> 
> 
> 
> aint my 2c worth its fact...


Buy a vowel punctuation mark? Or indeed a capital letter?


----------



## jdooley

Oats are a head killer in my experience. Flaked barley really improves head retention, so I think it is great in Stouts. I would get Flaked barley from your local homebrew shop and don't worry about the Oats.


----------



## Edak

Interesting, oats don't kill head for me, but we all experience different effects.


----------



## NewtownClown

Perhaps the difference lies in the way they are utilised?
All the texts I have read indicate flaked oats will improve head retention, mouthfeel and body; as has been my experience.
I have only ever used pregelatinised rolled oats (in order to eliminate the need for a protein rest).


----------



## mabrungard

Maxt said:


> Oats do not lead to astringency.


I haven't used oats at a high percentage, but Michael Lewis (brewing professor emeritus at UC Davis) wrote in his book on Stout that his experience with oats IS that they tend to produce an unpleasant astringency in beer when used at elevated percentage. I don't recall what percentage he used, but it was probably over 5%. He was not complimentary to oat use in brewing. I still find its pleasing at a percent or two. 

I conducted a lot of trials with flaked barley in pale beers. It is a huge body and head builder at only small percentages. The problem is that it also has a very grainy taste that is quite notable in a pale beer. While we can get away with flaked barley in a roasty stout due to the marriage of those flavors, it doesn't work in less roasty beers. I find that flaked wheat is a better way to boost body and head in paler beers.


----------



## Ballaratguy

chewy said:


> the difference between stockfeed and food grade is totally astounding... when a farmer plants barley or any crop they prey it goes food grade or hops grade (for barley) they dont just grow it. it has to have outstanding conditions.... no disease no mould and the right protein count..... stock feed grade is the absolute bottom of the barrel! would you eat dog food coz ive worked in abattoirs and i can tell you what that is too and it aint human consumption.....
> 
> 
> 
> aint my 2c worth its fact...


Sorry but I disagree with this. Usually the Reason barley (or any grain) to be down graded can be from many reasons
When a bin of grain is presented by toe grower a sample is taken and analysed for quality. What they look for is 
1. The size of the grain
2. The moisture content
3. Damaged grain
4. Rubbish
Causes can include
I. Usually undersized grain can come-
Lack of water (for the grain to fill)
Being harvested too early
Being harvested too late
Disease
The wrong size screen installed in the harvester
The brand of the barley
2. Moisture content 
Wet grain (harvested too soon after rain)
Harvested too late (too dry)
3. Damaged grain
Harvested too early in the day (cereal crops need heat for the heads holding the grain to snap off the stalk cleanly)
Wrong screen
Harvesting speed too slow or too fast
Grain too dry
Lack of maintenance of the harvester
4. Rubbish
Wrong screen
Speed
Crop on the ground
(Rubbish usually consists of too much chaff (the grass and outer husks of the grain) within the grain
So as you can see there are many reasons for grain to be down graded
No I’m not a farmer but have been exposed to grain production for over 40 years
Would I eat stockfeed?
Why the hell not?
Using stock feed for brewing?
Well don’t we boil the wort to sterilise before fermenting?


----------



## MHB

You are missing the one quality that really differentiates Malting Barley from any other sort, Protein!
Even if everything else is perfect, if protein is too high it wont go to malting.
Buyers pay a premium for low protein malt, I remember back in the millennium drought, lots of the Aussie malt was coming through way smaller and a lot trashier than usual, took some very careful milling, it think it got to the stage where protein was about the only spec being met. But that's the one you cant ignore.
Americans using 6-row have to dilute the protein with other starch (rice, maize... both degermed) that's why they developed cereal cooking.
Mark


----------



## Garryg

MHB said:


> You are missing the one quality that really differentiates Malting Barley from any other sort, Protein!
> Even if everything else is perfect, if protein is too high it wont go to malting.
> Buyers pay a premium for low protein malt, I remember back in the millennium drought, lots of the Aussie malt was coming through way smaller and a lot trashier than usual, took some very careful milling, it think it got to the stage where protein was about the only spec being met. But that's the one you cant ignore.
> Americans using 6-row have to dilute the protein with other starch (rice, maize... both degermed) that's why they developed cereal cooking.
> Mark


Farmers get paid a premium for Barley that grades Malting 1 or 2 the rest is just used a Feed grade (Stockfeed)


----------



## MHB

Or even Malting 3.
This is a couple of years old but gives a pretty good idea of the specifications.
Lots of factors add up to make good malting barley, not just those listed by Ballaratguy. Point is just using feed barley is a really bad idea, could you eat it - sure, brew with it (after malting) - yes but you will get second best beer.
Mark

Love the fact that there is a specification for snails
M


----------

