# Demand Valve For Beer Engine



## Jez (16/5/09)

Hi there,

I finally got around to hooking up my beer engine properly. After much research I decided to try a demand valve like most of the users in the UK seem to use instead of a cask aspirator. I got one from www.barleybottom.com. 

I hooked it up with 3/8 inch line from corny to the john guest connect on the demand valve then its 1/2 inch from the valve to the beer engine. Here's a pic:








Gotta say I'm SUPER impressed!!!! The engine has a super smooth pull and no need for me to mod the keg lid like I've seen a few people do. Very happy!!

Now to load up with that keg of Smurto TTL i've been saving :beerbang: 

Jez


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## Sammus (16/5/09)

So is that one of those check valves that let you pour with CO2 pressure instead of the pump itself?


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## MCT (16/5/09)

It's a thing of beauty. Got any more pics?
I would love one of these on my bar.....


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## Jez (16/5/09)

MCT said:


> It's a thing of beauty. Got any more pics?
> I would love one of these on my bar.....




Here you go:




 

Jez


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## Jez (16/5/09)

Sammus said:


> So is that one of those check valves that let you pour with CO2 pressure instead of the pump itself?



Yep, but you can still use it to pump straight from the fermenter real ale style if you want. It lets you keep the keg pressure a bit higher than if you were using an aspirator without the beer being pushed out the engine. The engine is still pumping the beer into your glass.

I read a few UK stories about people not being able to get a good keg seal using an aspirator due to the low keg pressure so thought i'd give this a go. Glad I did.

Jez


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (16/5/09)

This is also known as a check valve. It stops force carbonated beer being pushed through the engine, very different to an aspirator which maintains atmospheric pressure inside the keg when the beer relies on secondary fermentation for carbonation of the beer.


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## Bugglz (17/5/09)

So do you need a second regulator set at a low pressure or can you have normal serving pressue running into the 'cask'?


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (17/5/09)

Bugglz said:


> So do you need a second regulator set at a low pressure or can you have normal serving pressue running into the 'cask'?




I would assume the beer is being force carbonated at the same pressure as the other beers and the engine is merely used to serve into the glass.
Not quite what real ale and beer engines are all about.


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## THBF Wez (17/5/09)

I use a cask breather and a check valve with my beer engine and it works perfectly, I keep the cask breather pressure set to around 3 or 4 psi and never had an issue with lid seals.

Cask Breather





Check Valve





Pulls a lovely pint


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## Cortez The Killer (18/5/09)

Fellas 

While sort of on topic is any one keen to organise a beer engine related gear bulk buy?

Eg aspirators, check valves, sparklers, drip trays etc

Looks like http://www.worthside.co.uk/ is the cheapest place - even though their web shop only works through Internet Explorer <_< 

Cheers


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## bigfridge (18/5/09)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Fellas
> 
> While sort of on topic is any one keen to organise a beer engine related gear bulk buy?
> 
> ...




Hi,

We are in the process of organising a container of such things plus pins and firkins - will have more details next week.

Dave


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## Doc (18/5/09)

When I organised the bulk buy of the cask aspirators a few years back the cheapest by far were Scot-Bev.
Here is the link.

The killer is always going to be shipping.
Make sure whoever you source from is not going to use an Int'l courier, as the cost is massive. They will want to because they will want to guarantee delivery. What we did was get them sent to Kook as he was in London at the time, and he very generously individualised them and sent them on.
However as they were sent to the UK first, they charged me VAT. I then had to provide proof that the items then left the UK in order to get back all the VAT (which was substantial as it was a big order). Like all BB it was a pain, but worth it in the end.
Love have the Beer Engine for family gatherings and brewdays.

Doc


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## Cortez The Killer (18/5/09)

bigfridge said:


> Hi,
> 
> We are in the process of organising a container of such things plus pins and firkins - will have more details next week.
> 
> Dave


Cool

Will these be available through NNL?

I'm specifically after an aspirator and maybe a check valve / demand valve

Two or three sparklers with different hole sizes 

And two or three 6" drip trays 

And some 3/8" OD line if the check valve had the john guest connector

Cheers


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## Jez (18/5/09)

Vlad the Pale Aler said:


> I would assume the beer is being force carbonated at the same pressure as the other beers and the engine is merely used to serve into the glass.
> Not quite what real ale and beer engines are all about.



Agreed. I'm planning on using my engine to pour a proper pint, not just for novelty value so I won't be force carbonating. I could've just got another celli tap to do that. I have got an aspirator and will be hooking it up as well to keep the carbonation level low.

I was just chuffed that the check valve meant I didn't have to mod the keg lid like I thought I would've had to do if I had used an aspirator only. I got the impression from other posts on here that this was the best way to go. My original post might've got a bit carried away with joy at the time but I was just letting people know.

Jez


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## bigfridge (18/5/09)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Cool
> 
> Will these be available through NNL?
> 
> ...




Yes, we are working with our European contacts to get some 'top loaded' into a container.

Full details should be available next week.

Thanks
Dave


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## Weizguy (18/5/09)

bigfridge said:


> Yes, we are working with our European contacts to get some 'top loaded' into a container.
> 
> Full details should be available next week.
> 
> ...


For those who don't have knowledge of these things: I believe that "top loading" is the process of filling the deadspace on top of the main cargo to maximise container capacity.

This will certainly reduce the freight on these much-appreciated items, and as we all know, the freight is the killer from most parts of the world.

Thanks heaps, David. I'll be toward the front of the queue.
Be prepared for a heap of questions when the bits are available for sale.

Les out


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## winkle (18/5/09)

> Yes, we are working with our European contacts to get some 'top loaded' into a container.
> 
> Full details should be available next week.
> 
> ...



Don't know how I'm going to get this past the fiscal speed bump, but I'm keen when they arrive.


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## KHB (18/5/09)

where are you guys getting these beer pumps from, so want one


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## Cortez The Killer (19/5/09)

Mine was from ebay

And yes postage was a killer

Picture here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=456948

Cheers


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## Offline (9/7/09)

bigfridge said:


> Yes, we are working with our European contacts to get some 'top loaded' into a container.
> 
> Full details should be available next week.
> 
> ...



Any developments Dave?


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## gap (9/7/09)

Offline said:


> Any developments Dave?



Offline,

You may not need a demand valve unless you intend to carbonate your keg normally
and use the keg pressure to push the beer into the Engines. 

If you have not already done so have a read of the whole "Show us your Beer Engines " thread.
If you have already done so I will shut up.

i have 2 Beer Engines and use minimal keg pressure and an aspirator to control the quantity and 
pressure of CO2 into the keg when the Engine is in use.

Regards

Graeme


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## bigfridge (9/7/09)

Offline said:


> Any developments Dave?



Not that you would be interested (I have just seen your other post) 

Cask availability and price has been fixed and handpump, shives, taps, cask breathers and stop valves (btw that is what the white things are in the back of your cabinet) have been located and just waiting on bulk pricing from the wholeslaers or manufacturers. 

We will half fill a container and then send it to SPain where it will be filled with new kegs and they will be on their way.

The attached document has some pics of what we are looking for.

Dave

View attachment Casking.pdf


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## Offline (9/7/09)

gap said:


> Offline,
> 
> You may not need a demand valve unless you intend to carbonate your keg normally
> and use the keg pressure to push the beer into the Engines.
> ...



I thought Dave might be importing some aspirators is why I asked. 
There is no need to shut up though, even if I have already read the suggested thread others interested might not have.



bigfridge said:


> Not that you would be interested (I have just seen your other post)
> 
> Cask availability and price has been fixed and handpump, shives, taps, cask breathers and stop valves (btw that is what the white things are in the back of your cabinet) have been located and just waiting on bulk pricing from the wholeslaers or manufacturers.
> 
> ...



Are the cask breathers the same as an aspirator? If so Im after one.
I think I might have another couple of other tiny issues but wont know until I do a water test on the weekend.


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## gap (10/7/09)

Offline said:


> I thought Dave might be importing some aspirators is why I asked.
> There is no need to shut up though, even if I have already read the suggested thread others interested might not have.
> 
> 
> ...




Cask breather and aspirator is the same thing.


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## Cortez The Killer (10/7/09)

Don't forget some sparklers too

Cheers


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## Korev (10/7/09)

Hi Dave

Please put me down in the queue for a breather and check valve. I hand carried my 20 quid (e-bay) beer engine around the world last month and now need to set it up properly.

Any timing when the goodies will be available?

Peter


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## bigfridge (10/7/09)

Korev said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> Please put me down in the queue for a breather and check valve. I hand carried my 20 quid (e-bay) beer engine around the world last month and now need to set it up properly.
> 
> ...




I was hoping to get this all bedded down before winter as the room temperatures are ideal for drinking real ale, but we were messed around by a supplier. We have now changed suppliers and things are moving again but it will take 2 months to get a container packed and out here.

But this will only affect the hand pumps and casks used by the micro brewers getting into real ale. The bits and pieces can be air freighted out here so we are talking about 2-3 weeks.

If you are going to use standard kegs instead of casks having a stop valve is probably a better option than a cask breather/aspirator. The breather works by allowing CO2 to flow into the cask to replace the beer drawn off. On a corny the disconnect fitting size is fairly small so the hand pump has to 'suck' pretty hard to get the beer out. This can result in gas coming out of solution.

You could just apply some CO2 pressure to your keg to help 'push' the beer out but this has to get bled off again so that the beer doesn't overgas and any pressure in the keg pushes the beer straight out through the beer engine.

The stop valve goes between the keg and handpump and only allows beer to flow when the hand pump sucks - if there is no suck on the stop valve no beer flows.

I will post the full details here when available.

Thanks
David


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## Korev (10/7/09)

Hi david

Thanks but your reply raises some questions 

The stop valve sounds the way to go (non return valve) as I don't want any stale beer in the cylinder/pipes draining back into the keg. 

So are you recommending that an aspirator should only be used with a cask? 

Peter


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## gap (10/7/09)

Korev said:


> Hi david
> 
> Thanks but your reply raises some questions
> 
> ...


 My understanding is it works in the opposite direction. It stops beer coming out of the keg until you pump the beer engine handle. I you have a pressurised keg and no demand valve then beer would pour straight through the beer engine .

Regards

Graeme


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## bigfridge (10/7/09)

gap said:


> My understanding is it works in the opposite direction. It stops beer coming out of the keg until you pump the beer engine handle. I you have a pressurised keg and no demand valve then beer would pour straight through the beer engine .
> 
> Regards
> 
> Graeme



Graham is correct - the beer can't drain out of a (correctly functioning) pump as it has a valve that stops it draining back.


David


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## cdbrown (10/7/09)

Depending on price I'd like 2 stop valves and 2 aspirators. I'd rather not have to keep having to remember to apply gas to replace the keg headspace so will let the aspirator do that. At the moment with my engine slightly below the height of the freezer beer drains through the engine until the liquid level drops below the spout. Thankfully it's only a fer mLs but it would be good if it was a proper sealed system.


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## mckenry (23/11/16)

Necro.
Cant really find what I'm after. I have a check valve as in previous threads I've talked about leaking beer engine. That should stop the beer being pushed through when in the off position. I'm looking at getting an aspirator. From all research I need to set my feed at about 5psi.
I cant possibly be that accurate with my gauge. The scale is 0-100 psi (I think)
Question is, can I use this and just get the gas flowing as low as possible and the aspirator will cope or should I get a regulator with a much smaller range? 0-15psi or 0-30psi?
Thanks girls and boys.


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## gap (23/11/16)

it should be OK to just set the reg pressure as low as you can. this is what I do and I have a standard double reg.


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## wally (23/11/16)

mckenry said:


> Necro.
> Cant really find what I'm after. I have a check valve as in previous threads I've talked about leaking beer engine. That should stop the beer being pushed through when in the off position. I'm looking at getting an aspirator. From all research I need to set my feed at about 5psi.
> I cant possibly be that accurate with my gauge. The scale is 0-100 psi (I think)
> Question is, can I use this and just get the gas flowing as low as possible and the aspirator will cope or should I get a regulator with a much smaller range? 0-15psi or 0-30psi?
> Thanks girls and boys.


McKenry,

I use one of these "Norgren" in-line regulators to set my pressure to about 5 PSI or less.

It allows very fine control IMO.


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## Mardoo (23/11/16)

I find my Harris reg quite easy to set to lower pressures.


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## billygoat (24/11/16)

wally said:


> McKenry,
> 
> I use one of these "Norgren" in-line regulators to set my pressure to about 5 PSI or less.
> 
> ...


I use a similar Norgren regulator as well. The gauge is 0-100 Kpa and I set it to 25 KPa with the kegs at 10C. Gives the right carbonation level.
When I first set up my beer engines around 9 years ago I had a cask breather but found it unsuitable in a homebrew situation.
The cask breather would be fine if I could get through a keg in a week or two. Every time you connect up the cask breather it vents the keg down to atmospheric. When you draw off beer the cask breather replaces that volume with CO2.
That stops the beer oxidising but by venting off the keg every time you connect it, you end up losing all the condition / carbonation in the beer.
I know some Australians think that pommy ales are flat but they should have some nice, low condition, maybe around 1.5 Volumes.
I find with the small amount of CO2 supplied by the secondary regulator, the beer keeps its condition for the length of the keg.
It's not enough pressure to force the beer up through the beer engine and it wouldn't be CAMRA approved, but it works well in a homebrew situation.


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## malt and barley blues (20/9/17)

billygoat said:


> I use a similar Norgren regulator as well. The gauge is 0-100 Kpa and I set it to 25 KPa with the kegs at 10C. Gives the right carbonation level.
> When I first set up my beer engines around 9 years ago I had a cask breather but found it unsuitable in a homebrew situation.
> The cask breather would be fine if I could get through a keg in a week or two. Every time you connect up the cask breather it vents the keg down to atmospheric. When you draw off beer the cask breather replaces that volume with CO2.
> That stops the beer oxidising but by venting off the keg every time you connect it, you end up losing all the condition / carbonation in the beer.
> ...


Where did you get the Norgren regulator from billygoat ?


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## koshari (20/9/17)

malt and barley blues said:


> Where did you get the Norgren regulator from billygoat ?


have you tried a bbq gas reg?


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## billygoat (21/9/17)

malt and barley blues said:


> Where did you get the Norgren regulator from billygoat ?


Had it left over from a job I had done in a previous working life. Any decent pnuematic suppliers would stock them.
Still use the same set up today, works well.
Edit - Looks like Norgren are in Roweville, Vic.


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## malt and barley blues (21/9/17)

Brilliant only 10 minutes away.


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