# Grain Brands And Use By Period?



## juzz1981 (18/8/10)

Hi,

I have only just ventured in to the world of All Grain and have only done one JSGA clone and are about to brew a stout on the weekend but I have contacted a local brewery who are willing to sell grain in bulk (as i dont have a LHBS), they use Barret Burston, Weyermann, Bairds and a little bit but not much Joe White malt. 


My question is, does it really matter what brand grain i choose or should i just choose the one that is most reasonably priced?
If I buy in bulk, how long does the grain last (uncrushed) if kept in a cool dark environment?

Thanks Heaps!


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## Wolfy (19/8/10)

Purists would suggest that to create beers that are 'true to style' or 'ideal clones' you should use malt that best matches the beer you are brewing.
Eg: Bairds for UK Ales, Weyermann for European Wheat beers and Lagers.
However BB and JW are very decent malts that many Australian (home) brewers make a range of great beer with - and you'll probably find it's cheaper too.
You will (may well) notice a difference in the malt depending on the brand/location, however it's up to you to decide if that difference is worth the extra cost.

If kept cool and dry it should last for year(s), but for your first purchase - it really depends on what you like and expect to brew - but you can't go wrong with a range of Australian base malt, and then work from there.


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## unrealeous (19/8/10)

Sounds like you have quite a bit of choice on the grains - that's a good thing. Eventually you'll probably want to try them all. I can't really comment on all the different types as I am yet to try them all.

Grain can be stored for 1-2 years if you keep it cool and dry and away from the rats. Ideally though, you probably should aim to 'run out' of each type after say 4-6 months. You'll go through the low EBC grains (base malts) at a much faster rate than the higher EBC malts. The only real way to work out how fast you'll use them is to look at your favorite brews - and what grains go into them. That'll give you a pretty good idea of the ratios.

Here's a grain storage thread Linky


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## juzz1981 (19/8/10)

Thanks for the info 

So I only need to buy one base malt, could I buy an Ale Malt and use this as a sub for anything that calls for pilsner?
Pilsner would only be lighter in colour, correct?

thanks


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## benno1973 (19/8/10)

Yep, pilsner malt is kilned lighter. It tastes slightly grainier and sweeter than ale malt, as far as I can tell. You can just use Ale malt for all your base malt if you want, the difference is fairly negligible.


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## Fourstar (19/8/10)

Wolfy said:


> Purists would suggest that to create beers that are 'true to style' or 'ideal clones' you should use malt that best matches the beer you are brewing.
> Eg: Bairds for UK Ales, Weyermann for European Wheat beers and Lagers.



Purists would actually say:
Bairds for Scottish Ales
TF for British Ales



Having pilsner and ale malt in most cases as your base malt is like comparing apples and apples. Unless you are specifically brewing a pilsner, purchase what you like. (Although some fellas on here say JW ale is suitable for a decent pilsner, ive yet to try.)

In the case of JW. Their pilsner has ALOT more character than the JW ale, at least thats what it imparts in my beers when ive used it in conjunction with other specialty malts. its great as a base for APA IMO. It lends a nice sweet doughy grain characteristic and with abit of a highly kilned malt like munich or biscuit you end up with something quite unique and supports any hops you throw at it.


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## juzz1981 (19/8/10)

Fourstar said:


> Purists would actually say:
> Bairds for Scottish Ales
> TF for British Ales
> 
> ...



I was thinking I might go with the BB Ale Malt, not that ive tried it, but from what i hear its a good malt ? :huh:


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## Fourstar (19/8/10)

juzz1981 said:


> I was thinking I might go with the BB Ale Malt, not that ive tried it, but from what i hear its a good malt ? :huh:



For me, BB Ale, JW Ale. Same Same. used both and dont notice any difference in my beers flavour.


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## reviled (19/8/10)

In terms of shelflife on malt, yes you can keep and use it for years, but your results wont be as good as when the malt is fresh, it does come with a use by date, normally one year from manufacturing date, or sometimes 6 months with stuff like pale crystal..

I used to allways buy stuff in bulk to keep the costs down but a mate of mine recently purchased an online home brew shop and last time I was there he got me to chew on some caraaroma that was freshly delivered and compare it with caraaroma that had been sitting around for just over a year, the difference was incredible, it seriously was, even the smell was alot stronger with the fresher grains!! He believes in this so much that he actually throws stock out if it gets too old as he doesnt want his customers using old product...

Would be interested to know if any other retailers have found similair results after having access to fresh ingrediants all the time?


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## Fourstar (19/8/10)

reviled said:


> I used to allways buy stuff in bulk to keep the costs down but a mate of mine recently purchased an online home brew shop and last time I was there he got me to chew on some caraaroma that was freshly delivered and compare it with caraaroma that had been sitting around for just over a year, the difference was incredible, it seriously was, even the smell was alot stronger with the fresher grains!! He believes in this so much that he actually throws stock out if it gets too old as he doesnt want his customers using old product...




i had some caramalt that went slack, when i got some fresh stuff there was a definite noticable difference. the crystal with the slack malt was all chewy and sticky.. nothing to write home about!


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## reviled (19/8/10)

Fourstar said:


> i had some caramalt that went slack, when i got some fresh stuff there was a definite noticable difference. the crystal with the slack malt was all chewy and sticky.. nothing to write home about!



Its interesting eh, I mean you still couldve probably made beer out of it, but what it would taste like is a different story...

Its also funny cos the guy im talking about went from ordering 5kg of Caramalt at a time and stocking up, to throwing the stuff out :lol:


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## Wolfy (19/8/10)

Fourstar said:


> Purists would actually say:
> Bairds for Scottish Ales
> TF for British Ales


And then again others would correct your geography.


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## Fourstar (19/8/10)

Wolfy said:


> And then again others would correct your geography.



h34r: i mean english beers.


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## juzz1981 (21/8/10)

Actually looking throught alot of recipes in beersmith, I might be better off buying Pilsner/Pale Malt instead of Ale Malt as alot of recipes says "pale malt"?
$35 per sack, im assuming thats a good price?

Thanks again.


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## Wolfy (21/8/10)

I thought that Pale Malt was just another name for "Ale Malt" and Pilsner malt is a different product that is usually marked/sold as such. However, as *Fourstar *pointed out above, you may be able to interchange the two anyway, whatever the correct names are.

The price you have been offered compares well with the Melbourne bulk buy costs, so it seems like you have a good deal to me.


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## felten (21/8/10)

Pale malt and ale malt are synonymous, pilsner malt is kilned lighter than the aforementioned. I see pale malt being mentioned a lot in American recipes and forums, but in the HBS over here it's usually ale malt.


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## juzz1981 (21/8/10)

felten said:


> Pale malt and ale malt are synonymous, pilsner malt is kilned lighter than the aforementioned. I see pale malt being mentioned a lot in American recipes and forums, but in the HBS over here it's usually ale malt.




Oh ok, My mistake.. Ale Malt it is.. thanks for clearing that up


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## Fourstar (21/8/10)

felten said:


> Pale malt and ale malt are synonymous, pilsner malt is kilned lighter than the aforementioned. I see pale malt being mentioned a lot in American recipes and forums, but in the HBS over here it's usually ale malt.



Take this with a grain of salt but Jamil advised me that Aussie Ale malts are pretty lifeless compared to the US malts!

Sounds kinda silly doesn't it! :blink: if the Yanks think their 2 row is pretty so-so. i wonder what they think of ours! Althugh the US base might have a distinct malty flavour that our malt lacks. I guess it also gives me anothjer reason to want to use flavoursome base malts like pilsner or trick them up with 3-5% of a specialty like biscuit or munich etc.


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## HoppingMad (22/8/10)

Just to clarify. 

Juzz is looking to create something with a pilsener base grain.

He actually has these options for pils according to the brands his friendly brewery has listed:

Joe White Export Pilsener
Barrett Burston Pale Malt
Weyermann Bohemian Pilsener/Premium Pilsener/German Pilsener/Pilsener (every store sells a different weyerman pils - so it's lucky dip here)

If he wants ale grain he has:

Joe White Traditional Ale
Barrett Burston Ale Malt
Weyermann Ale Malt

With the Barrett Burston Don't get the 'pale' muddled with the 'ale!' Ale is not as well suited to your pils style beers, more pale ales.
Also having been brewing batches with BB & JW side by side of late I will say that the Joe White imparts a slightly more bready flavour.
Whereas BB is smoother and has less bread in the way it comes up. But everyone's tastebuds are different. I'm also finding the BB is crushing better as their husks are smaller. Make of that what you will.

If I was grabbing some base grains from my local I'd be grabbing a bag of ale, a bag of pils and and bag of wheat. Then you have a solid range of bases.
And I happily keep my grains out of sunlight and dry for a year, but beyond that they start to soften, get chewy and lose their zest. But yep you can keep them for longer, they just won't be as big flavour-wise in your finished beer. So 2 years is doable but finishing a bag earlier is advised.

Hopper.


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## Bizier (22/8/10)

Fourstar said:


> Take this with a grain of salt but Jamil advised me that Aussie Ale malts are pretty lifeless compared to the US malts!


 

A fellow AHB member just came back from the US and was able to taste some fresh Great Western 2 row, and he said it is many miles ahead of our base malts.

I personally see these malts as one of the problems with Australian beer. I can tell when they are used in a pilsner, because it is just bland and lacklustre. I am unsure if it is related to malt or merely treatment of malt, but it can also come across as kind of flabby. I can often tell where a craft brewer has gone to the extent of getting out the good imported stuff, even as a percentage of the base.

I'd be very interested to know if anyone can tell me anything about Australian malts, and whether variety, weather, soil, actual malting or something else gives the US an advantage over Australia.

And good on you Juzz for getting into it and hitting up your local brewery, perhaps you can ask them where they use the particular ingredients, and try to pick the flavours out in their beers.


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## Pat Casey (23/8/10)

1. Pale malt is a misleading term. It can mean either ale or pilsner/lager malt depending on who's using it, or where. For example Barrett Burston labels its base malts as Ale malt and Pale malt. 

2. Shelf life of malted barley is reckoned to be up to two years from packaging, obviously the fresher the better. It doesn't matter what you're making, the fresher the ingredients the better the product. Surely that should take precedence over sphincter aperture and buying up big.

3. Weyermann produce four pilsner malts: Pilsner, Premium Pilsner, Bohemian Pilsner and Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner. I stock the Pilsner and the Floor Malt. 

4. Barrett Burston or Joe White, it's a toss of a coin. Whichever is available and fresh is the better. They are pefectably reasonable malts, if you can't brew a good beer from these malts (assuming they are fresh) then the problem rests with you. Some of the imported malts are superior malts, not because they are imported but because the importer has chosen a superior malt to import. 

5. I despise the term "boutique", but you'll understand what I mean when I say we need a couple of boutique maltsters and the farmers to supply them.

6. I assume the gentleman from Colac has a mill.

Pat
Absolute Homebrew
Casey's Beer


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## sirhendo (23/8/10)

Hope I managed to sort you out Jus....don't forget the grain I've got over at my place for you too....give me a shout when you want to come and grab it.


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## HalfWit (9/8/14)

Just dragging up an old thread but do the 25KG bags have a manufactured date printed on them? More specifically Simpson malts?


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## Not For Horses (13/8/14)

The last bag of Simpsons MO I saw had a manufacture date on it.


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## vykuza (13/8/14)

Weyermann malts have best before dates on them. I just checked


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## HalfWit (14/8/14)

Thanks, I got my bag of Golden Promise. Just off the boat., manufactured May this year.


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