# Polypins.. Anyone use them?



## Coach_R (15/2/13)

G'day all, 

Hope this is the correct section for this post, tried searching the site for polypin and came up with nothing.

Firstly incase it's called something else as well here is a polypin







I want to recreate some English Ales as close to traditionally as possible. I just got back from living in London and worked in a brewery over there for close to 2 years and found they used polypins so the public could buy cask ale for home use and i thought that would be great for homebrewing now that i am home. Only challenge i am having is finding anywhere in Australia that i can buy them.

If anyone has ever seen or uses these for brewing any help would be massively appreciated!

Cheers Guys :icon_cheers:


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## Batz (15/2/13)

There has been some talk about polypins here but nobody seems to have found anywhere in Oz that stock them. I'm surprised one of our retailers don't stock them as there seems to be a fair bit of interest.

batz


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## mje1980 (15/2/13)

One of the expats in our club has a couple. I'm pretty sure he now just uses no chill cubes. Same thing essentially. This weekend our club is having a get together, which always includes hand pumped uk ales, from cubes.


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## Robbo2234 (15/2/13)

isn't just a collapsible water cube?


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## mje1980 (15/2/13)

Username here is S.E if you want to pm him.


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## Coach_R (15/2/13)

I have finally tracked down some reasonably priced from the UK.

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/detailv1.asp?itemcode=POL20176741

2 x 10L Polypins + Shipping = 20 GPB ($29.95)

That's not too bad i don't think...

Dunno how many time they can be reused, i'm guessing they should last a while though!


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## Robbo2234 (15/2/13)

bah on my phone and fat fingers! 
http://www.sellitonline.com.au/20l-litre-collapsible-water-carrier-tank-great-for-camping-p-710.html


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## Coach_R (15/2/13)

Robbo2234 said:


> isn't just a collapsible water cube?


Cheers mate that looks like they'd work perfectly!


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## Coach_R (15/2/13)

Robbo2234 said:


> bah on my phone and fat fingers!
> http://www.sellitonline.com.au/20l-litre-collapsible-water-carrier-tank-great-for-camping-p-710.html


Whoah, that one expensive! wouldn't this do the trick?

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Collapsible-Water-Container-20L.aspx?pid=114174#Cross


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## Coach_R (15/2/13)

Also found a 10L if anyone is interested..

http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/SCA-Collapsible-Water-Container-10L.aspx?pid=218857#Cross


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## white.grant (15/2/13)

I got one of those from the big green shed, worked out fine the couple of times I used it.


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## sp0rk (15/2/13)

I'm planning on using either the BCF or SCA water containers for cask ales once i've built my ghetto hand pump
all the reviews i've read of people using them have said they work perfectly


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## S.E (15/2/13)

There was discussion on using cubes and polypins for UK ales
here.


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70212-hand-pumpbeer-engine-has-arrived/page-2


Cheers


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## Bribie G (15/2/13)

I had a look at the BCF one for cold conditioning, but would be hard to keep sanitised. However I reckon it would be fine for serving. A PP is really just one of those in a box.


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## DennisKing (16/2/13)

Being using these for around 30 years, with a hand pump it's as close as you will get to an English pub ale. Mind you I am in the UK.


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## AndrewQLD (16/2/13)

DennisKing said:


> Being using these for around 30 years, with a hand pump it's as close as you will get to an English pub ale. Mind you I am in the UK.


Any chance you could tell us how you use them Dennis? It would be good to have the process in writing with a bit of detail, do you prime them and what temp do you serve at ect.

Andrew


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## TidalPete (16/2/13)

DennisKing said:


> Being using these for around 30 years, with a hand pump it's as close as you will get to an English pub ale. Mind you I am in the UK.


I am interested in the details too Dennis. Would you mind posting the external sizes? Need to see if they would fit on the hump in my keezer.


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## Coach_R (16/2/13)

Just put a random quick 15L K&K brew down this morning purely to see how the SCA bags go.. if anyone has any info on how much sugar i should use to prime one of these bad boys that'd be great!


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## Grayling (16/2/13)

I have been using them for over 30 years......used to get them from the off licence in the UK where they were used for bulk sherry.

I used them to serve ale by gravity...They will collapse as you draw the ale. You can push on the top of the cube to make sure no air enters....Best for a party when it will be drunk quickly but I have used them over a period of weeks...Great if you 
Ike flat ale....which I do.

Can't seem to get them over here unfortunately.


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## DennisKing (17/2/13)

My procedure is very simple, I want my beer to be as an English real ale, light natural carbonation. I normally rack into pin around a gravity 1012 no priming sugar and leave somewhere slightly warm. The pin will expand a little after 4-5 days so I move to my garage which at the moment is around 12c and even in summer rarely go's above 20c. If it does get too warm a wet towel will bring it down, in the UK we don't get the temperatures you do. I like to let it condition for 2-3 weeks although you can drink younger. By serving through the hand pump the action of the pump gives me just the amount of life I want. Before I got the hand pump I would prime with 80gms of sugar and serve by gravity. The beer stays fresh for at least 2-3 weeks, to be honest they normally drank within that time. My pins are 20ltr and are aprox. 13" x 11"x 11".


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## Coach_R (17/2/13)

Question for the ppl that use these regularly.

If/When you prime them and leave for a few weeks do you vent the Co2 out on a regular basis or is it just once it's full don't touch again until serving?


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## Grayling (17/2/13)

Coach_R said:


> Question for the ppl that use these regularly.
> 
> If/When you prime them and leave for a few weeks do you vent the Co2 out on a regular basis or is it just once it's full don't touch again until serving?


I rarely used to prime them at all. I would transfer the beer to the pin when it was ready, usually from a secondary fermenter, and dispense by gravity...simply pour the beer through the tap and allow the pin to collapse as it empties.

I never left beer in the pin for a few weeks before it was ready to drink...if I primed it would be with ordinary sugar and not too much..I would only vent through the tap if the pin started to bulge too much....that would mean inverting the pin and would stir up the sediment so I would avoid if possible. The method works with beer if you like it flat (which many prefer). Using a beer engine is different and I never got found to trying it....but I will one day I hope.


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## jphowman (17/2/13)

Coach_R said:


> Just put a random quick 15L K&K brew down this morning purely to see how the SCA bags go.. if anyone has any info on how much sugar i should use to prime one of these bad boys that'd be great!


I'd love to here how this goes. If it works I'll be making a trip to the shops. :beer:


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## AndrewQLD (18/2/13)

DennisKing said:


> My procedure is very simple, I want my beer to be as an English real ale, light natural carbonation. I normally rack into pin around a gravity 1012 no priming sugar and leave somewhere slightly warm. The pin will expand a little after 4-5 days so I move to my garage which at the moment is around 12c and even in summer rarely go's above 20c. If it does get too warm a wet towel will bring it down, in the UK we don't get the temperatures you do. I like to let it condition for 2-3 weeks although you can drink younger. By serving through the hand pump the action of the pump gives me just the amount of life I want. Before I got the hand pump I would prime with 80gms of sugar and serve by gravity. The beer stays fresh for at least 2-3 weeks, to be honest they normally drank within that time. My pins are 20ltr and are aprox. 13" x 11"x 11".


Thanks Dennis that helps a lot, so what is your preferred serving temperature?


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## black_labb (18/2/13)

I've been using some polypins for a month or so now with my newly aquired handpump. i got some 4L "cubitainers" as they seem like a good idea, I don't want to be drinking the same beer for 20L straight. Currently I've been priming with about 1.5g/L after cold conditioning, though a bit less could be fine. All you need is to make the difference between the solubility of co2 at fermenting temps and serving temps, which is about .25 volumes. the polypin isn't there to hold pressure, just as an airlock, though they can hold some pressure if you get it wrong. I hope I don't find out their upper limit but I haven't yet

I've been leaving my pins at 20ish for a couple days (until you see the headspace starting to increase from co2 production) then I move them into the fridge at 12*c where they wait to be served.


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## DennisKing (19/2/13)

AndrewQLD said:


> Thanks Dennis that helps a lot, so what is your preferred serving temperature?


My garage tends to be around 14c to 18c range.


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## Wolfy (19/2/13)

Unfortunately the poly pins that they use in the UK are difficult or expensive to find locally.

I have one of the camping type ones, however I don't think it seals near as well and TBH it smells of vinyl so I've not been inclined to use it.


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## CosmicBertie (20/2/13)

Wolfy said:


> Unfortunately the poly pins that they use in the UK are difficult or expensive to find locally.
> 
> I have one of the camping type ones, however I don't think it seals near as well and TBH it smells of vinyl so I've not been inclined to use it.


I use the collapsible water containers from BCF. $12 each. I CC the beer in secondary, then transfer to the bag. The beer then matures for a week before serving. I dont prime the bag either. I tend to store the full bags at 10C in the fridge. When its serving time, put the bag into one of those 50-can cooler bags, and connect to the hand pump. Works a treat, and there are no vinyl/plastic flavours in the beer either.


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## Coach_R (21/2/13)

black_labb said:


> I've been using some polypins for a month or so now with my newly aquired handpump. i got some 4L "cubitainers" as they seem like a good idea, I don't want to be drinking the same beer for 20L straight. Currently I've been priming with about 1.5g/L after cold conditioning, though a bit less could be fine. All you need is to make the difference between the solubility of co2 at fermenting temps and serving temps, which is about .25 volumes. the polypin isn't there to hold pressure, just as an airlock, though they can hold some pressure if you get it wrong. I hope I don't find out their upper limit but I haven't yet
> 
> I've been leaving my pins at 20ish for a couple days (until you see the headspace starting to increase from co2 production) then I move them into the fridge at 12*c where they wait to be served.


At the minute i don't have anything to cold condition my beers (or anywhere) so my plan was to bulk prime and like you say for a few days once the headspace increases and then whacking it in the fridge.

Was going to leave it in the fridge for a week or 2 and then like Cosmic Bertie does chuck it in a cooler bag (Minus the hand pump) and either just pour pints or fill a jug and pour pints from there.

If this all works out i think i'll definitely keep it up and do 10L from every batch this way.

Can't wait till winter so i can lay down some ESB's and Porters!


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## Coach_R (25/2/13)

Okay guys just a quick update on what i've done so far.

This beer was basically a trial for 3 things. An old 15L fermenter i was given by my grandad whose mate had been using for wine, a new set of bottles from a mate and then most important thing the 10L collapsible container.

The beer itself was just a quick kit with some hops thrown in at the end.

1 x Coopers Real Ale
1 x Brew Enhancer 1
- Brewed to 15L using 1 x Kit Yeast
- Dry hopped with 5g target,5g challenger and 10g EK Goldings
OG = 1.055 FG = 1.018 (Alc = 5.4%)

Yesterday i primed the bag with 10g of dextrose (1g/L) just to be on the safe side this time, if it works ok might go up to 1.5g/L next time. I've left a small amount of headspace in the top of the bag purely because that is what you do when bottling (hopefully this is right). I've left the bag sitting in a styrofoam container wrapped in an old beach towel with the tap at the top. I'm going to leave it til probably Wednesday next week and then whack it in the fridge the correct way up (tap at the bottom) for a couple of days and then get stuck in on the Saturday afterwards.

Fingers firmly crossed hoping that this goes well because i want to start doing this with most of my 23L batches just to add a little variety to each brew having 10L in cask and the rest bottled.

I'll add some pics from my "Tasting Session" once it's all done.

Thanks again for everyone's help and input on this, top work lads!

Cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## CosmicBertie (25/2/13)

Just keep an eye on the bag. If it swells up too much you may have to bleed some of the gas out of it to stop it from exploding


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## Coach_R (25/2/13)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> Just keep an eye on the bag. If it swells up too much you may have to bleed some of the gas out of it to stop it from exploding


it's only been in the bag for 24 hours, it was pretty firm so i vented for maybe 2 secs at the most. better to be on the safe side i guess..

Should i leave it for maybe another day or 2 and then put it in the fridge sooner then i had planned?


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## Coach_R (25/2/13)

Just a quick pic of what i'm talking bout, this is after i vented a little..

Edit: Don't worry bout the "flecks" that are showing in the picture that's just all the dry hopping goodness in there


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## CosmicBertie (25/2/13)

I'd keep venting it so that the bag doesnt feel so hard. Do this for a week, to let it mature, then drink it


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## Coach_R (27/2/13)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> I'd keep venting it so that the bag doesnt feel so hard. Do this for a week, to let it mature, then drink it :


I've been venting twice daily (am/pm) i'm probably doing it too much but just to be safe for this first run. I'm going to leave it at room temperature until the weekend and then pop it in the fridge until the following weekend.

Also in the last week or so been researching other alternatives... and came across these plastic firkins and pins http://real-ale.com.au/?page_id=71 i've asked for a quote on one of the pins and shipping from Sydney to Adelaide. If anyone else is interested i'll let ya know how much they are once i find out.


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## CosmicBertie (28/2/13)

Coach_R said:


> I've been venting twice daily (am/pm) i'm probably doing it too much but just to be safe for this first run. I'm going to leave it at room temperature until the weekend and then pop it in the fridge until the following weekend.
> 
> Also in the last week or so been researching other alternatives... and came across these plastic firkins and pins http://real-ale.com.au/?page_id=71 i've asked for a quote on one of the pins and shipping from Sydney to Adelaide. If anyone else is interested i'll let ya know how much they are once i find out.


Those firkins/pins look ok, but you'd have to tap them to allow air (or a gas) in when you draw the beer out. This is fine if you're going to be drinking it reasonably quickly, but could be an issue if its left over a longer period.


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## NewtownClown (28/2/13)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> Those firkins/pins look ok, but you'd have to tap them to allow air (or a gas) in when you draw the beer out. This is fine if you're going to be drinking it reasonably quickly, but could be an issue if its left over a longer period.


 Or you can use very low pressure co2, but that upsets the good folk at CAMRA


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## srcossens (28/2/13)

Those pins and firkins are great. I've got two pins with my brewery name on them. I got them before I left the UK. They come from http://www.cypherco.com/acatalog/Beverage_Containers.html A lot of breweries over there have started to use them as they are cheaper than stainless ones and are also lighter to courier places. I think mine only cost about £28 each, compared to a stainless one at about £120??

If you did get them, you then need to get shives, keystones, a tap, make yourself a few spiles and if you didn't want to drink the beer in three days, then you will need a cask breather which will allow you to keep the beer for about five weeks.


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## Malted (28/2/13)

Anyone tried the Bag in Box bags from EWL online store? 95 pence + 60 pence for the box + 3.90 for a connector + 5.90 for a brass key.

Go into the online store, the Bag in Box Equipment is at the top of the Catalogue Sections.
http://www.worthside.co.uk/index.html

Postage for a carboard box probably wouldn't be worth it but all the rest should be worth it, I'd imagine?


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## S.E (28/2/13)

Coach_R said:


> I've been venting twice daily (am/pm) i'm probably doing it too much but just to be safe for this first run. I'm going to leave it at room temperature until the weekend and then pop it in the fridge until the following weekend.
> 
> Also in the last week or so been researching other alternatives... and came across these plastic firkins and pins http://real-ale.com.au/?page_id=71 i've asked for a quote on one of the pins and shipping from Sydney to Adelaide. If anyone else is interested i'll let ya know how much they are once i find out.


I have those pins and firkins. They are ok but for home use I find it simpler to use cubes as casks.


Some of the advantages of cubes over pins and firkins I have found are:

1 They are cheaper often free and readily available here.

2 as you don’t need to tap and vent them you can sample the beer any time to see if it ready.

3 Beer lasts much longer in cubes as you don’t need to tap and vent them to serve. The first few pints can be served under pressure the rest will last about 8-9 days if you loosen the cap to pour and re-seal it each time.

4 Don’t need to keep buying keystones, shives and spiles. And just use normal cube/fermenter taps.

5 Cubes fit in a small fridge. A pin needs a fridge 60cm deep once it is tapped.

Honestly I think you are better off with cubes or polypins for home use. I find my pins and firkins only practical for club events. 

Cheers Sean


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## TidalPete (28/2/13)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> I use the collapsible water containers from BCF. $12 each. I CC the beer in secondary, then transfer to the bag. The beer then matures for a week before serving. I dont prime the bag either. I tend to store the full bags at 10C in the fridge. When its serving time, put the bag into one of those 50-can cooler bags, and connect to the hand pump. Works a treat, and there are no vinyl/plastic flavours in the beer either.


Yo Cosmic Bertie. 
Do you have the dimensions for one of those BCF collapsible water containers when filled to the max???


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## Coach_R (28/2/13)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> Those firkins/pins look ok, but you'd have to tap them to allow air (or a gas) in when you draw the beer out. This is fine if you're going to be drinking it reasonably quickly, but could be an issue if its left over a longer period.


The few days they keep once opened is not an issue i plan on sharing these brews with mates and knocking them off in one hit.





ScottC said:


> Those pins and firkins are great. I've got two pins with my brewery name on them. I got them before I left the UK. They come from http://www.cypherco.com/acatalog/Beverage_Containers.html A lot of breweries over there have started to use them as they are cheaper than stainless ones and are also lighter to courier places. I think mine only cost about £28 each, compared to a stainless one at about £120??
> 
> If you did get them, you then need to get shives, keystones, a tap, make yourself a few spiles and if you didn't want to drink the beer in three days, then you will need a cask breather which will allow you to keep the beer for about five weeks.


Yeah realize that you need all the gear to go with them, thats not an issue i'm use to opening/emptying/luggin around firkins from working at a brewery.








S.E said:


> 3 Beer lasts much longer in cubes as you don’t need to tap and vent them to serve. The first few pints can be served under pressure the rest will last about 8-9 days if you loosen the cap to pour and re-seal it each time.


Yeah, but i've been venting these cubes for the past few days (probably haven't needed to, just being safe because it's my first go) I like the fact that with a firkin its just fill, leave and then when ready (within a few months atleast) open it and once it's settled go for it.

Cheers for all the feedback fellas!


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## CosmicBertie (6/3/13)

TidalPete said:


> Yo Cosmic Bertie.
> Do you have the dimensions for one of those BCF collapsible water containers when filled to the max???


Sorry for the delay, I didnt see the post.

From the BCF.com.au website: 40cm x 35cm x 40cm (when filled)

Probably a bit more, due to bulging, but not that much.


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## S.E (7/3/13)

Coach_R said:


> The few days they keep once opened is not an issue i plan on sharing these brews with mates and knocking them off in one hit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don’t think you understood my last post so to clarify, I do not use collapsible polypins.I use cubes like the ones you can buy in Bunnings that are commonly used as no chill cubes.

Though they don’t collapse like polypins you can serve the first few pints under pressure so unlike a firkin you don’t need to vent them to start serving and as no air is drawn in at first you can sample a few glasses whenever you want, then leave it weeks or months to vent and serve the rest.

I have found if you just loosen and retighten the cap quickly when you gravity serve the beer will not spoil for at least a week after it has been vented, I regularly get 8 days after venting.

Plastic pins and firkins are a good cheap alternative for a commercial brewery but the humble cube will do the same job for a home brewer. Pins and firkins are good for transporting from brewery to pub as they are stronger and don’t have the taps fitted till later, but they offer no practical advantage in fact a few disadvantages over cubes and polypins for home brewing.

As you intend knocking them of in one hit with your mates definitely give cubes a go, and you can just prime and leave them same as a firkin. Cubes will hold about the same pressure as a plastic firkin before the keystone blows out anyway.

Cheers


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## Bribie G (7/3/13)

I just posted details of this little beauty in the Gear and Equipment sub forum under "Solid Brass Pump"
I saw quite a few of them in action in pubs in Cornwall in the 1970s to serve real ale in little old hobbit pubs where traditional beer engines couldn't be mounted.

Tidal Pete: there's a BCF in Taree, we can check the collapsible water containers out when you are on your trip.


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## S.E (8/3/13)

Bribie G said:


> I just posted details of this little beauty in the Gear and Equipment sub forum under "Solid Brass Pump"
> I saw quite a few of them in action in pubs in Cornwall in the 1970s to serve real ale in little old hobbit pubs where traditional beer engines couldn't be mounted.
> 
> Tidal Pete: there's a BCF in Taree, we can check the collapsible water containers out when you are on your trip.


I bought this years ago at a car boot sale for 4 or 5 pounds.




As it doesn’t have a sparkler I could never see the point of pumping directly from the cask rather than just use a tap and gravity serve.

But having just read your post in gear and equipment the penny has dropped, of course it is so obvious.








It was used to pump beer from the cellar or pub floor in to
a pint glass so the cask doesn’t need to be high enough to gravity serve. 

I may have just found a use for my pins and firkin after all.


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## Bribie G (8/3/13)

Firkin perfect arrangement B)


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## Coach_R (8/3/13)

S.E said:


> I don’t think you understood my last post so to clarify, I do not use collapsible polypins.I use cubes like the ones you can buy in Bunnings that are commonly used as no chill cubes.
> 
> Though they don’t collapse like polypins you can serve the first few pints under pressure so unlike a firkin you don’t need to vent them to start serving and as no air is drawn in at first you can sample a few glasses whenever you want, then leave it weeks or months to vent and serve the rest.


Ah, my bad.. I reckon i'm gonna brew an identical batch and try the way you do it and see which way works best for me.


So just got home from work so i have decided to get stuck into a few now before the weekend! here is a picture of my 1st pint..


Im pretty happy with how it went, heading off to get another pint as i end this post!

Cheers

:kooi:


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## mje1980 (8/3/13)

Sean, does this mean next RAF we'll see one in action ?? hehe


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## S.E (12/3/13)

Coach_R said:


> Ah, my bad.. I reckon i'm gonna brew an identical batch and try the way you do it and see which way works best for me.


That’s a good idea, you will probably find collapsible containers better if you want to save your liver and empty them over a longer period.


If you are going to empty them relatively quickly I think cubes are easier to handle, clean, fill, transport and store. Beer will also clear and mature faster under pressure in cubes.


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## S.E (12/3/13)

mje1980 said:


> Sean, does this mean next RAF we'll see one in action ?? hehe


We will have to give it a go next RAF now we know what it is for. It did make an appearance at RAF #1, but I just left it on the bar as a conversation piece. If I had ever tried putting it in a cask I may have realised its purpose.


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## Coach_R (26/3/13)

So i'm gonna give the cube idea a go in a few weeks. (flat out at the moment).

S.E just curios where you bought your race cask ventilator? I've found loads online from the UK but before i go ahead and get one from O/S wanted to see if they can be found in Australia.

Also if anyone has any good links for a refurbed clamp on hand pump that'd be great too!

Cheers


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## markjd (21/6/13)

Interested in giving this a try over the cool Melbourne Winter. Yesterday, I moved 10L of 10 minute IPA into a 10L Bunnings plastic container and primed with 1.5g/L sugar. As the plastic container doesn't collapse like the polypins, I'm going to have my work cut out getting through 10L of 6% in a week before oxidation causes problems :beerbang:

Anyone managed to source one of the 10L polypins locally? Looking at the super cheap and bcf links earlier in the thread, neither are working.


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## Diesel80 (21/6/13)

markjd said:


> Interested in giving this a try over the cool Melbourne Winter. Yesterday, I moved 10L of 10 minute IPA into a 10L Bunnings plastic container and primed with 1.5g/L sugar. As the plastic container doesn't collapse like the polypins, I'm going to have my work cut out getting through 10L of 6% in a week before oxidation causes problems :beerbang:
> 
> Anyone managed to source one of the 10L polypins locally? Looking at the super cheap and bcf links earlier in the thread, neither are working.


quick spot of google foo, http://www.quicksales.com.au/ad/5-litre-collapsible-water-container/4834612

some 5L ones there and they are in Vic.

Cheers,
D80


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## Bribie G (21/6/13)

I bought a collapsible 20L one from BCF for about $12 and a plastic "galley pump" for around $30 that should work ok. However the problem is that whilst I got a metre and a half of PVC tube that fits the galley pump perfectly , it's far too big for the tap on the collapsible. Tried crimping it but it just sucks air.

Working on that one.


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## S.E (21/6/13)

Coach_R said:


> So i'm gonna give the cube idea a go in a few weeks. (flat out at the moment).
> 
> S.E just curios where you bought your race cask ventilator? I've found loads online from the UK but before i go ahead and get one from O/S wanted to see if they can be found in Australia.
> 
> ...


Sorry just saw this. I bought two race ventilators from http://www.a1barstuff.co.uk last time I was in the UK. I don’t really use them much though just loosen the cap and tighten it again as soon as I have poured.


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## markjd (21/6/13)

Spotted a 10L version on ebay. Being made in China, hopefully I won't die from melamine toxicity after the first pint.


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## CosmicBertie (21/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> I bought a collapsible 20L one from BCF for about $12 and a plastic "galley pump" for around $30 that should work ok. However the problem is that whilst I got a metre and a half of PVC tube that fits the galley pump perfectly , it's far too big for the tap on the collapsible. Tried crimping it but it just sucks air.
> 
> Working on that one.


Check out Bunnings....they have some diameter reducers (um, im not sure of the actual name of them)....check out this link http://www.bunnings.com.au/search-products.aspx?search=reducer&searchType=any&searchSubType=products&filter=categoryname--Irrigation&page=1
They're not the ones that I got (the ones I got were white plastic 10mm to 8mm reduction).

I use them to connect my filter to the water carrier.


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## Bribie G (21/6/13)

Thanks, plumbing type items aren't BCFs strong suit. Will take the devices into Bunnings.

Quite off topic but in the TV mini series of Terry Pratchett's Discworld adaptation, when the "tourist" arrives in Ankh Morpork and wanders into a pub they clearly show one of those metal galley pumps in use with the landlord pumping into a tankard. Quite made my day :lol:


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## CosmicBertie (21/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> Thanks, plumbing type items aren't BCFs strong suit. Will take the devices into Bunnings.
> 
> Quite off topic but in the TV mini series of Terry Pratchett's Discworld adaptation, when the "tourist" arrives in Ankh Morpork and wanders into a pub they clearly show one of those metal galley pumps in use with the landlord pumping into a tankard. Quite made my day :lol:


You know that thats just TV right? 

Anyway, I'll try and remember to take a photo of the reducing/connector thing when I get home...


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## MartinOC (21/6/13)

markjd said:


> I'm going to have my work cut out getting through 10L of 6% in a week before oxidation causes problems :beerbang:


You're just not trying hard enough!!


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## jphowman (22/6/13)

I'm giving this a crack at the moment.

I'd stay away from the ones from Super Cheap Auto. The thread at the top of the container is soft plastic and I found it impossible to get a proper seal. 

I've got one from BigW now and it has significantly thicker walls as well as a rigid thread. I've got some sugar and water fermenting in it at the moment it test how well it functions.


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## Bribie G (22/6/13)

Cheers Bertie.

It never occurred to me that TV is not reality, you could be onto something there. Must investigate further.


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## freek (22/6/13)

Cheers for sharing some good info Cosmic Bertie. I was struggling to get my head around cask ale but I think I am there now.

I always liked the idea of setting up a gravity dispensed, lightly carbonated ale but this has its problems for long term use. Any beer vented at atmospheric pressure would eventually go flat and I would be lucky to drink a full batch in less than 6 weeks.

As you have mentioned in previous posts sparklers would remove all carbonation anyway, so why bother carbonate in the first place. It would seem weird to me gravity feeding completely flat, headless beer into a pint glass. But with the beer engine + sparkler setup you can still get a head on a flat beer. 

I hope I have it right. Next thing is to get a beer engine.
Cheers


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## CosmicBertie (25/6/13)

The sparkler puts so much air into the beer it can take 10 mins to clear! And the head stays to the bottom of the glass too.


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## S.E (25/6/13)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> The sparkler puts so much air into the beer it can take 10 mins to clear! And the head stays to the bottom of the glass too.


How can a sparkler put air into the beer? My understanding is it knocks co2 out of suspension. The sparkler should be at the bottom of the glass completely submerged.


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## CosmicBertie (25/6/13)

Yup. You're right.

However, if you pull a pint with the sparkler right at the bottom, you'll get a beer with no head. You have to learn how to pull a pint, theres an art to it. If you pull it too high in the glass, you'll get a massive head.

I'm guessing its some kind of gas, dont ask me how, other more intelligent people can probably tell you, but it forms a head, and I can only guess that its 'air' making the tiny bubbles. Maybe its the dissolved CO2 which is forced out.

Poor choice of words for me earlier post.


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## Bribie G (25/6/13)

I believe it "thrashes" the beer to release the CO2 in smaller bubbles, a bit like the restrictor plate in a nitro tap.

When I lived in Cardiff, Brains beers were always served via sparkler and had a smooth, creamy taste with a thick head, but little gas. Tetleys did something similar with their bitter in Yorkshire.

They would often put a cask of SA on the bar at my local and serve it on gravity as that was suddenly trendy with the students who lived in that particularly bedsit area. Tasted completely different, almost fizzy. Preferred the sparkler version.

edit: a well pumped pint - note the gas still settling out


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## CosmicBertie (25/6/13)

When I used to drink in the Yorkshire pubs around where I grew up, all the beers were served via a sparkler. You got a flat beer with a thick, creamy head. If you went insane and ventured 'down south', the beer was served without a sparkler, and it always reminded me of used dishwashing water.

They then introduced the 'smooth flow' beers, which negated the need for a decent cellarman/landlord, the taste of the beer completely changed and I used to avoid them.

That reminds me, my YPA must be ready now (Yorkshire Pale Ale  ), im trying to clone a Rooster beer......man, I miss those.

Crikey Bribie, we're starting to sound like old men.....do you remember when all this were fields?!


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## Malted (25/6/13)

I am not sure that I like my BCF collapsible water containers anymore http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Collapsible-Water-Container-20L.aspx?pid=114174#Cross. The taps get hard to turn and the handle snaps off them. This was after I soaked them in PBW solution for some time. Maybe PBW makes the plastic go brittle?


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## felten (25/6/13)

I asked USplastic for a quote on 4x 1gal cubitainers, and they reckon they could send them for $7.72 + $24 shipping. I didn't follow through with it though, but maybe someone else might be interested.

Apparently their shipping price is based on weight, so larger cubitainers would probably be a little dearer in that regard.


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## Bribie G (25/6/13)

Bertie, ayup sethe, by goom.
Where in Yorkshire? I popped out in Pontefract.


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## treefiddy (25/6/13)

Malted said:


> I am not sure that I like my BCF collapsible water containers anymore http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Collapsible-Water-Container-20L.aspx?pid=114174#Cross. The taps get hard to turn and the handle snaps off them. This was after I soaked them in PBW solution for some time. Maybe PBW makes the plastic go brittle?


Sodium percarbonate is the main ingredient in PBW, which produces peroxide. Peroxide is what does the cleaning and is also a strong oxidiser which can damage plastics, often making them brittle.

You could try something else to clean them, or just use starsan for a few rinses.


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## CosmicBertie (25/6/13)

Malted said:


> I am not sure that I like my BCF collapsible water containers anymore http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Collapsible-Water-Container-20L.aspx?pid=114174#Cross. The taps get hard to turn and the handle snaps off them. This was after I soaked them in PBW solution for some time. Maybe PBW makes the plastic go brittle?


I've never had that happen...though I dont use PBW on plastic....


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## CosmicBertie (25/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> Bertie, ayup sethe, by goom.
> Where in Yorkshire? I popped out in Pontefract.


Ee by ecky thump. 

I was sprogged in Cleckhuddersfax!

In a small place called Liversedge. Champion.


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## Malted (26/6/13)

treefiddy said:


> Sodium percarbonate is the main ingredient in PBW, which produces peroxide. Peroxide is what does the cleaning and is also a strong oxidiser which can damage plastics, often making them brittle.
> 
> You could try something else to clean them, or just use starsan for a few rinses.


Cheers for that.
Note to self 'Malted, do not leave plastic items soaking in PBW for extended periods!'


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## Yob (23/7/15)

ere.. possible stupid question coming..

you cant barrel age then store in these polypins or collapsible container types? you could easily purge them out and fill them.. a few of these 10L jobbies would come in very handy if it was a plausible action.. somehow I doubt it though..

I rekon Im going to need a lot more kegs...


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## welly2 (10/2/16)

Trying to find collapsible water containers and none of the websites seem to be advertising them. Tried BCF with no joy and Bunnings. Neither seems to have them or if they do, they're not on their website. Does anyone have any suggestions where to pick one up from? Ideally 20L but I could go for two 10L ones alternatively. Planning on brewing an English bitter this weekend and so want to get my hand pump into action!


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## Grainer (11/2/16)

I bought mine from ebay in china. They are great and do the job


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## Grainer (11/2/16)

Yob said:


> ere.. possible stupid question coming..
> 
> you cant barrel age then store in these polypins or collapsible container types? you could easily purge them out and fill them.. a few of these 10L jobbies would come in very handy if it was a plausible action.. somehow I doubt it though..
> 
> I rekon Im going to need a lot more kegs...


Nah mate long term storage not advisable cause of oxygen permiation


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## wide eyed and legless (11/2/16)

http://www.theplasticman.com.au/default/products.html/64/100/Bottles,-Drums-&-Jerry-Cans/Jerry-Cans

I have got the above, but agree with Sean the cubes are better and if you have a co2 set up easy to prime.
When the beer is passed through the sparkler liquid dynamics come into play and the reason we get a nice creamy head is due I believe to the separation of nitrogen and oxygen remember air is 78% nitrogen that is why the feel of the beer, is like a nitrogen pour.


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## S.E (11/2/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> http://www.theplasticman.com.au/default/products.html/64/100/Bottles,-Drums-&-Jerry-Cans/Jerry-Cans
> 
> I have got the above, but agree with Sean the cubes are better and if you have a co2 set up easy to prime.
> When the beer is passed through the sparkler liquid dynamics come into play and the reason we get a nice creamy head is due I believe to the separation of nitrogen and oxygen remember air is 78% nitrogen that is why the feel of the beer, is like a nitrogen pour.


Since November I have been using a chest freezer as my beer cellar so have set up my engine as it’s not as easy to reach down to pour from the tap as I could using a fridge.

I find using the engine the beer oxidises a lot quicker so have started using poly pins and cubes together so I get the best of both worlds. I use the cube as the cask but connect a poly pin full of co2 to it so as I pull pints it draws in co2 and the poly pin collapses.

Its dead easy to set up, all I did was drill a hole in a spare cube cap and fit an air lock grommet. Cut the bottom length off an old air lock (the bottom bit you push through the grommet in a fermenter) and insert it half way into a length of 10mm Boston pvc tube. One end of the tube fits tightly over the tap on the poly pin and the other, with the piece of airlock pushes into the grommet on the cube cap.

I still haven’t got around to getting a co2 setup so I fill polypins with co2 from the fermenter.

First I use an air pump (the ones used for inflating/deflating paddling pools etc) to suck all the air out of the poly pin and close the tap. Then plug it into the airlock grommet on the fermenter lid using the PVC tube and open the tap. It takes about 1-1.5 hours to fill a 20L poly pin.

Cheers Sean


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## wide eyed and legless (11/2/16)

That's a brilliant idea, saves any worrying about about have I left the co2 connected to the cask and left it on, are there any leaks, definitely be doing that, I take it you didn't use any priming sugar in the cube/cask?


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## S.E (11/2/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's a brilliant idea, saves any worrying about about have I left the co2 connected to the cask and left it on, are there any leaks, definitely be doing that, I take it you didn't use any priming sugar in the cube/cask?


I do usually use priming sugar in the cube, I use un drilled caps on them first then change to the drilled cap when I want to serve. Just like venting a cask with a hard spile when it’s needed.


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