# Stone And Wood Ale Recipe



## hopcycle

I love this beer! :icon_drool2: 

Clean bitterness, light quenching malt and hop flavour and aroma galore. Has anyone cloned this with good results?

It seems like it has perhaps 50% wheat malt and I know it has Galaxy added towards the end of the boil.


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## MattC

Yes I love it too.

All i know is that they use galaxy hops (dry hopped as well) wheat malt, raw wheat and pale malt.

Here is my 1st attempt. Have in the keg at the moment, it awesome, i love it. However, I would change it a bit. I would up the flameout additions to 30g and the dry hops to perhaps 30 or even 40g.
Mine came out a little darker than the actual stone and wood, so perhaps I would use some more raw wheat? Or I was thinking about subbing half the ale malt for pilsner malt.

Good luck

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Stone & Wood Draught Ale Clone
Brewer: Matt Cawley
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 28.00 L 
Boil Size: 35.67 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 9.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.50 kg Barrett Burston Ale Malt (6.0 EBC) Grain 80.88 % 
0.65 kg Wheat Malt (3.0 EBC) Grain 9.56 % 
0.65 kg Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC) Grain 9.56 % 
20.00 gm Galaxy-Flowers [14.20 %] (Dry Hop 5 days)Hops - 
25.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (40 min) Hops 27.2 IBU 
20.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 5.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Galaxy 2009 crop [13.40 %] (0 min) (AromaHops - 
0.50 tsp Kopperfloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 6.80 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 17.75 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 


Notes:


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## mccuaigm

I love this one too, I made this recipe & it turned out pretty bloody good I reckon

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...&recipe=877


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## haysie

You guys are talking the APA style Stone n Wood? I had a session on it at the Beach in Byron last week and loved it, the Galaxy stood out upfront and "drink some more" it said. I then went downstairs and bought their 3 beers for takeaways, none of which I could fault. The dark ale was bock like, the lager a nice clean drop, but that ale on tap :icon_drool2:


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## MattC

haysie said:


> You guys are talking the APA style Stone n Wood? I had a session on it at the Beach in Byron last week and loved it, the Galaxy stood out upfront and "drink some more" it said. I then went downstairs and bought their 3 beers for takeaways, none of which I could fault. The dark ale was bock like, the lager a nice clean drop, but that ale on tap :icon_drool2:



Just up the road from me, nice beer, very sessionable. Also at the Rails and the Northern.

The dark ale must have been the Stone Beer???


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## haysie

That was the one Matt, Stone Beer. They claim to replicate the wood fire and heated stones for the boil, if they do or dont it was a great beer worthy of travelling the 3000k`s to get into it.




MattC said:


> Just up the road from me, nice beer, very sessionable. Also at the Rails and the Northern.
> 
> The dark ale must have been the Stone Beer???


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## MattC

Ive visited the brewery before for a tour with Brad Rogers. Also went to Melbourne for the Beer and Brewer expo, popped in to see the boys from the brewery and asked about the stone beer. Brad showed me some photos of them heating up the stones that they use. think the pics are on the website?? They say they got the stones from Fiji if I remember correctly. The wort caramelises on the stones producing a caramelised effect, and then they add the stones to the fermenter. The caramel characters really come out in the Stone Beer, well balanced though and a shame its only a seasonal release.

cheers


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## haysie

Thanks for the info Matt. I asked a few questions at the bar re the brewery and beers and got a sort of "dunno" answer. Probably the best 2 Aussie craftbeers I have drunk in a few years was the APA Draught and the stone beer. Great pic of it there on your avatar! It was a bit exxxy though.


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## hopcycle

Matt C, I would think that the IBU of this beer is about 33-35 as you've indicated. When I drank it, it had a very clean bitterness that was like a steely backbone. 

I made a wheat beer that had 25% pils malt, 25% unmalted wheat and 50% malted wheat and to me the malt profile was similar. 

I doubt that they use that much wheat but it does taste pretty wheaty/quenching.


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## MattC

Hopcycle, not entirely sure of their % 's in their malt bill, but I think that up past 50 % wheat your heading well into hefeweizen territory. I would maybe up the wheat and raw (i used torrified) wheat to 15 % each and see how that goes. I actually gelatined in the keg, wouldnt do that next time, because after a week, it had lost that cloudy appearance. Try and pick a low floc yeast as well. I did a side by side test from a bottle of the commercial version, and mine lacked a bit of flavour and aroma, hence my suggestions for the increased flame out hops and dry hops.

Cheers


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## hopcycle

I might try 50% wheat (50:50 malted: raw) & 50% pils malt and see what happens. let me know how it goes. it would be great to nail it.


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## MattC

hopcycle said:


> I might try 50% wheat (50:50 malted: raw) & 50% pils malt and see what happens. let me know how it goes. it would be great to nail it.



You let ME know how it goes


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## ///

20% wheat, 80% Pale, must get your pH right to get proper TG. Galaxy hops a plenty!

Scotty


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## Hargie

...thanks for the comments guys, i spend every day brewing,hopping, kegging, packing and generally caring for these beers..glad you like 'em...

...as for the recipes, i'm under an obvious obligation not to give out commercially sensitive info...so, i wont apart from saying...keep guessing guys...one of the great joys of brewing is the voyage of discovery... ... 

...Scott...


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## MattC

Hargie said:


> ...thanks for the comments guys, i spend every day brewing,hopping, kegging, packing and generally caring for these beers..glad you like 'em...
> 
> ...as for the recipes, i'm under an obvious obligation not to give out commercially sensitive info...so, i wont apart from saying...keep guessing guys...one of the great joys of brewing is the voyage of discovery... ...
> 
> ...Scott...



No Worries, it always compliments to the chef when people try to replicate your creations. Will keep trying and when I think Im close, ill pop in and ask for your opinion eh?

:icon_cheers:


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## mccuaigm

Maybe a competition is in order.... :drinks:


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## Hargie

MattC said:


> No Worries, it always compliments to the chef when people try to replicate your creations. Will keep trying and when I think Im close, ill pop in and ask for your opinion eh?
> 
> :icon_cheers:




...please do mate, and bring a bottle or two of your work with you... :icon_cheers:


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## randyrob

Just having a pint of this now, i'd suggest adding some acidulated malt or adjusting your mash water to achieve the same results these guys are producing also be careful with galaxy it is quite a high alpha hop and the bitterness can get away from you, i'd suggest using it all quite late in the boil.


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## Screwtop

Hargie said:


> ...thanks for the comments guys, i spend every day brewing,hopping, kegging, packing and generally caring for these beers..glad you like 'em...
> 
> ...as for the recipes, i'm under an obvious obligation not to give out commercially sensitive info...so, i wont apart from saying...keep guessing guys...one of the great joys of brewing is the voyage of discovery... ...
> 
> ...Scott...




Nice beer Scott, tried it at the Platform Bar, if I was to have a go at it I would use S-04 at 20C in the hope of getting close to the yeast profile  

Screwy


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## haysie

Screwtop said:


> Nice beer Scott, tried it at the Platform Bar, if I was to have a go at it I would use S-04 at 20C in the hope of getting close to the yeast profile
> 
> Screwy



It is a nice _cloudy_ beer, maybe due to the late hopping but after tasting via the keg and it being cloudy I was thinking more "what is this" yeast, it is not a high floc yeast, the cloudiness on a high floc yeast like 04 would settle, i am thinking a low-med floc, a good amount of wheat and ahigh amount of late hopping, as randyrob said galaxy maybe all late.

tongue tied


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## ///

My recipe is a guess, but i reckon the best thing about this beer is the hopping, wonderful job done right throughout!

Scotty


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## dr K

/// said:


> My recipe is a guess, but i reckon the best thing about this beer is the hopping, wonderful job done right throughout!
> 
> Scotty


Frankly if were to be so impertinent as to "clone" this beer I would keep my IBU sub 20, 18 seems about right, Galaxy iss a true muddder fudder of a hop, just a little bit in the boil...and just the right amount at the end, sort of like dressing salad

K


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## daemon

I'm still quite happy with my recipe as a first cut, I've brewed it three variants now and the original (in the RecipeDB) I still believe was the closest. No-chilling is the hardest bit with this recipe for me, you want a lot of hop flavour but being high AA having them sit in the cube at high temps is going to create a lot of bitterness. Yeast wise US-05 is what you want, you want a clean taste to enjoy the wheat and Galaxy hop flavours.

The Draught ale to me is about the best Australian style craft beer we have available. While many other micro breweries are creating great beer, this uses unique Australian hops in a brew that's different yet easy to drink. 

I've been lucky enough to chat to Scott, Ross and Brad at the brewery, you won't meet a nicer bunch of blokes. If you think the ale is fresh on tap, wait until you've tried it direct from the fermenter


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## HoppingMad

dr K said:


> Frankly if were to be so impertinent as to "clone" this beer I would keep my IBU sub 20, 18 seems about right, Galaxy iss a true muddder fudder of a hop, just a little bit in the boil...and just the right amount at the end, sort of like dressing salad
> 
> K



Dr K has a point. Galaxy is notorious for coming up rough when you overdo it being high alpha. +1 on this comment, when it comes to galaxy, gently fellas gently! There's enough punch in even the smallest amount of this critter.

Hopper.


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## Snow

Hi guys,

just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.

Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Snow 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 % 
1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 % 
10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU 
5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 
12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU 
35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops - 
1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 % 
Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l 
Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color 


Mash Profile

My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Step 66.0 C 
10 min Mash Out 76.0 C 
Batch sparge 78C


Cheers - Snow.


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## Hargie

...Snow, mate, you are a long way off....we would have said a "shedload" in public...

Cheers,
Scott


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## Snow

Hargie said:


> ...Snow, mate, you are a long way off....we would have said a "shedload" in public...
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott



oh yeah... sorry - that's my hearing ;-)

It actually pretty much filled my shed as it was !

- Snow.


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## jakester

I think i had this beer at the Bitter & Twisted on the weekend and liked it there but my taste was a bit muddled from all the different beers. Went to Dan Murphys today to see if they had it, only bought two singles to see if i really liked it, got home put one in the freezer, mowed the lawn, poured the beer and God damn! Very very nice. Best bottled beer in ages, even better than LCPA.
I suppose thats the beauty of things like beer fests, they can introduce you to a new love, and mine is a case of this stuff back up at Dan murphys!


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## sav

I did the same went to dans to get my secret santa for the swap,wacked it in the freezer poured just shes carbed up allwright. I more going towards american wheat 50pils/50/wheat my tounge is fried at the moment I am struggling with everything flavour wise but I am burping hops very nice.


sav


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## a_quintal

Snow said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.
> 
> Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
> The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Brewer: Snow
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
> 1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
> 12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
> 1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
> Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
> Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
> Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
> Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color
> 
> 
> Mash Profile
> 
> My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 60 min Step 66.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
> Batch sparge 78C
> 
> 
> Cheers - Snow.



If i wanted to remove the 10gm Mash Hop addition, should I change the bittering hop addition in the boil?
Sorry just not familiar with mash hopping and obviously I wouldn't combine it into the 60min addition.

Thanks in advance
Alex


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## a_quintal

a_quintal said:


> If i wanted to remove the 10gm Mash Hop addition, should I change the bittering hop addition in the boil?
> Sorry just not familiar with mash hopping and obviously I wouldn't combine it into the 60min addition.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Alex



Bump.


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## marksfish

a_quintal said:


> If i wanted to remove the 10gm Mash Hop addition, should I change the bittering hop addition in the boil?
> Sorry just not familiar with mash hopping and obviously I wouldn't combine it into the 60min addition.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Alex



if you are really keen up the bittering addition by the 3.5 ibu.


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## Maxt

BIterness is not the hallmark of this beer, hop flavour and aroma is.
Keep the bittering addition down and dry hop the be-jesus out of it.


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## Rotgut

Maxt said:


> BIterness is not the hallmark of this beer, hop flavour and aroma is.
> Keep the bittering addition down and dry hop the be-jesus out of it.


I'm sure I read an article recently where they were quoting figures of 12kg into 800lt !?


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## Effect

Rotgut said:


> I'm sure I read an article recently where they were quoting figures of 12kg into 800lt !?




15 grams of hops per litre brewed...so that would be 345g of galaxy for a standard 23L batch. Does seem like quite a lot...


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## Nashmandu

Phillip said:


> 15 grams of hops per litre brewed...so that would be 345g of galaxy for a standard 23L batch. Does seem like quite a lot...











Maybe it is galaxy but i got more nelson sauvin and sorachi ace from it, some new zealand sav blanc tones as well as some lemon sorbet.....


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## Henno

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Stone and Wood
Brewer: Mark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 26.00 L 
Boil Size: 33.44 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 5.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 21.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.89 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.0 EBC) Grain 60.87 % 
1.86 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 39.13 % 
6.55 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 9.7 IBU 
10.91 gm Galaxy flowers EL827 [13.60 %] (20 min) Hops 8.1 IBU 
13.09 gm Galaxy flowers EL827 [13.60 %] (5 min) Hops 3.2 IBU 
39.57 gm Galaxy flowers EL827 [13.60 %] (0 min) (AHops - 
45.22 gm Galaxy flowers EL827 [13.60 %] (Dry Hop 5Hops - 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Ale with protein rest, dry
Total Grain Weight: 4.74 kg
----------------------------
Ale with protein rest, dry
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
15 min Protein Rest Add 17.85 L of water at 55.0 C 52.0 C 
60 min Saccrification Heat to 66.0 C over 5 min 66.0 C 
10 min Mash out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hey guys I just worked this one up. I'm a newbie at FWHing so will be interested in giving it a bash.

I'm also interested, not bothered, why I get higher IBU for the same amount (albeit scaled up for my 26L batch) of hops at the 20 and 5 minute additions and my hop flowers are only 13.8% as opposed to 14.9% in Snow's original.

How's this one looking Snow?


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## The Giant

Nashmandu said:


> Maybe it is galaxy but i got more nelson sauvin and sorachi ace from it, some new zealand sav blanc tones as well as some lemon sorbet.....



I finally got to try this beer today to

I to got NS flavours from it. Granted I havent to much experience with Galaxy hops, but I def think there is some Nelson in there.

Was it just me or did it also have some lychee flavour to it as well?


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## mika

The Giant said:


> .....
> Was it just me or did it also have some lychee flavour to it as well?



Welcome to Galaxy.
Has always come across to me as a very sweet tasting sort of hop.


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## The Giant

time to get some galaxy for the mrs next brew


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## Northside Novice

Snow said:


> Hi guys,
> this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
> The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Brewer: Snow
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
> 1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
> 12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
> 1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
> Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
> Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
> Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
> Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color
> 
> 
> Mash Profile
> 
> My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 60 min Step 66.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
> Batch sparge 78C
> 
> 
> Cheers - Snow.




I brewed this a few weeks ago and couldnt wait any longer so i 
just opened a early/green bottle (1 week in the bottle) of this brew and it is allready very nice .

pretty much copied snows but i went 

3kg pale malt
2kg raw wheat 
1056 yeast 
my galaxy flowers were 13.3 AA
all else the same 

View attachment 47617


mine on the left SnW on the right ,
Its not SnW but very close and tastes great. I am very happy with it and wouldnt change too much, maybe tinker with the wheat(raw% v malted%) and big cheers to snow for the advise


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## Truman42

hello,

Im new to brewing but really want to give this Stone and Wood pacific Ale a try as I think it tastes fantastic. In this post I've noticed that the recipe says it comes from brewsmith.com "BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com" But what recipe exactly is being used from brewsmith as I can see a number of American pale Ale recipes on their site.

Also I looked at the recipe shown here.

Sticks and stones by Daemon

But it only lists the ingredients and none of the actual steps.

Sorry if Im asking stupid newbie questions. Ive read the sticky on "Move to all grain for thirty bucks" which was a very helpful post.

Thanks in advance.


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## manticle

The steps depends a little on your method of brewing. That's an all grain recipe, so it requires mashing. Are you BIABing as per Nick's thread?

Basically mash the malts, drain, sparge if appropriate (rinse grains) until you have the appropriate pre-boil volume. Bring to the boil, boil for an hour or more, adding the specified hop amounts at the specified times.

The recipe doesn't specify the mashing temperature. If in doubt I'd aim for 64-66.

More info about your method/intended method.


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## Truman42

manticle said:


> The steps depends a little on your method of brewing. That's an all grain recipe, so it requires mashing. Are you BIABing as per Nick's thread?
> 
> Basically mash the malts, drain, sparge if appropriate (rinse grains) until you have the appropriate pre-boil volume. Bring to the boil, boil for an hour or more, adding the specified hop amounts at the specified times.
> 
> The recipe doesn't specify the mashing temperature. If in doubt I'd aim for 64-66.
> 
> More info about your method/intended method.



Yes I do want to follow Nicks method. So sparge means to rinse the grains? Is that where he puts it in a green bucket then squeezes the bag to drain out the liquids? He mentions adding a litre of 70C water to the bucket and dunking the bag back in their? I assume he means a litre of water from the pot and not clean 70C water or am I wrong??

Also the recipe says 

15 g	Galaxy (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 10 mins)	
25 g	Galaxy (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 5 mins)
So would I boil for an hour and add he first lot at 45 mins for 10 minutes then remove and add the second lot for 5 mins? How long should I boil for? What am I aiming for here.


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## manticle

Sounds like what you are describing is a dunk sparge yes. It does mean rinsing the grains. The mashing part activates the enzymes inside the grains to convert the grain starch to sugar (maltose). Rinsing can help get a bit more sugar into your wort although it isn't entirely necessary with BIAB.

As for the hops - don't take them out until the end of the boil.

Where a recipe says x amount of [email protected], that means you add 20 minutes before the end of the boil (so they are boiled for a total of 20 minutes).

In most recipes, there will be a bittering addition around 60 minutes or at the start of the boil. However Stone and wood relies on late hopping for lots of hop flavour and is not very bitter - hence the 2 additions at 10 minutes and 5 minutes out from the end and a low bittering level.

You still should boil for the full 60 minutes though.


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## Truman42

Thanks Manticle, That explains a lot. I was going to ask about bittering hops as Ive read about adding them and wondered when I would to this recipe but you've answered that for me too.


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## Truman42

Another question, are these ingredients readily available at most LHBS in Melbourne?


3.5 kg	BB Ale Malt	
0.8 kg	BB Wheat Malt	
0.2 kg	Flaked Wheat	
0.1 kg	Weyermann Munich I	
*15 g	Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 10 mins)	*(This is actually galaxy hops isnt it)
*25 g	Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 5 mins)	
10 g	DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale


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## Malted

LHBS maybe;
Grain and Grape definately.


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## ploto

Truman said:


> *15 g	Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 10 mins)	*(This is actually galaxy hops isnt it)
> *25 g	Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 5 mins)



Yes it should be Galaxy hops for the S&W Pacific Ale.

You often see Galena mentioned in recipes as the forum's recipe database and some older versions of brewing software does not have Galaxy listed, so people use the closes sounding name in the list.


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## Tanga

northside novice said:


> View attachment 47617
> 
> 
> mine on the left SnW on the right ,
> Its not SnW but very close and tastes great. I am very happy with it and wouldnt change too much, maybe tinker with the wheat(raw% v malted%) and big cheers to snow for the advise



I like your style man. Two brews on the go at once.

This thread is wetting my appitite for the Stone and Wood tasting / meet the brewer session Wednesday arvo.


----------



## manticle

Truman said:


> Another question, are these ingredients readily available at most LHBS in Melbourne?
> 
> 
> 3.5 kg BB Ale Malt
> 0.8 kg BB Wheat Malt
> 0.2 kg Flaked Wheat
> 0.1 kg Weyermann Munich I
> *15 g Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 10 mins) *(This is actually galaxy hops isnt it)
> *25 g Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 5 mins)
> 10 g DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale



Not most but some.

Grain and Grape
Greensborough home brewing
Not sure about brewer's den - certainly some will be.

You can also order online from craftbrewer, Gryphon brewing and others.

If you can't find Barrett Burston malt, substitute with another pale (ale malt) like Joe White. As you get to know your processes more, play around with different base malts and different brands to see what effect they have.


----------



## Truman42

Truman said:


> Another question, are these ingredients readily available at most LHBS in Melbourne?
> 
> 
> 3.5 kg	BB Ale Malt
> 0.8 kg	BB Wheat Malt
> 0.2 kg	Flaked Wheat
> 0.1 kg	Weyermann Munich I
> *15 g	Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 10 mins)	*(This is actually galaxy hops isnt it)
> *25 g	Galena (Flowers, 14.9 AA%, 5 mins)
> 10 g	DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale



Thanks once again just a few more questions.

I assume this.... 0.1 kg	Weyermann Munich I is this 

Munich I Malt (Weyermann)
EBC 12 - 17 (mash required): Light Munich malt. Used as a base for many 
German beer styles. Fest beers, bocks, ales. Enhances malty flavour and aroma.

and this.....0.2 kg	Flaked Wheat	is this

Wheat Flaked/Torrified (Blue Lake)
EBC 3 - 4 (mash required): Unmalted wheat .Typically used
for Wits & other wheats where raw unmalted wheat is called for.

And finally the yeast .... 10 g	DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale can I use this

Fermentis - Safale US-05 (11.5gm)
The most famous ale yeast strain found across America (AKA 1056), now available 
as a ready-to-pitch dry yeast. Produces well balanced beers with low diacetyl 
& a very clean, crisp end palate. Formerly known as US-56.


----------



## Malted

Yes, yes & yes.
Flaked wheat is different to torrified wheat but that is of no concern to you at this stage. Either will be ok in that amount.


----------



## Truman42

Ok great thanks, and if I cant get a big enough pot and have to do half of the 23 litres for this recipe, do I just half everything else??


----------



## Truman42

Someone??? Anyone????


----------



## chunckious

Truman said:


> Ok great thanks, and if I cant get a big enough pot and have to do half of the 23 litres for this recipe, do I just half everything else??



Put the figures into beermate as a 23L batch, then scale down the batch size to what you want. The ingredients will scale down accordingly.


----------



## Truman42

Where do I find beermate? I googled it and found brewmate is that the same thing?


----------



## chunckious

Truman said:


> Where do I find beermate? I googled it and found brewmate is that the same thing?



That's it....sorry mate.


----------



## Wolfman

Where abouts are you Truman?


----------



## Truman42

shan0066 said:


> Where abouts are you Truman?



Im in Melbourne SE Suburbs.


----------



## Truman42

Why do you ask???


----------



## manticle

Probably because brewers are generally a helpful bunch and if there's someone in your area who can demonstrate an AG brew so you can see how it's done (really helps people understand the process) then they probably will.


----------



## Wolfman

Exactly what manticle said. It is easier to explain it all when doing a practical. The whole BIAG process is very easy, you just need someone to show you. No affiliation but Thirsty Boy and Geoff will be doing a demo next weekend the 27th of august an Grain and Grape. They are very good at explaining the whole process. Failing that you could ask if you could go a watch/help someone in your area on here. 

Cheers

Shan


----------



## kaspa07

Well just poured myself a glass of is wonferful amber liquid, its still a bit clowdy but its an aswome colour its got a real hoppy smell to it you can smell it in the glass from 2m away, its also got a bit of a peach smell about it probably from the Safale S-04 Yeast.

Special thanx to the guys at Brewcraft for the recepie for this beer. I asked them if they had a clone for Stone and Wood Pacific ale but they didnt have one.

Anyhow this is what they madeup on the spot for me

-Safale S-04 Yeast
-50g galaxy hop pellets
-Malt Shovel Two-Row Lager Kit
-CARAPILIS Malt 500g (I cant remember how much of this malt they said to use but I used all of it)
-1kg Brew Booster #15
- 45g Hersbrucker flowers from my own garden (not in Brewcraft's recepie but I dont care)

*Method
*CARAPILIS Malt 500g 1 hour @ about 70C-80C
Then
1 hour boil at which point I added 25g Galaxy Hops
As I dont have a Wort chiller I put about 5lt of ice into the fermenter then I poured the wort into the fermenter allong with a bag of 45g of Hersbrucker and 25g of Galaxy hops at this point I aslo added the 1kg Brew Booster

The compleated wort ended up at about 26C, lucky I had plenty of room in the chest freezer so the hole fermenter went inside to cool the wort down.

Primary for 9 Days
Rack it into another fermenter and let it sit in the fridge at 2C to let it settle for about a week before kegging it

Lovely enjoy :beer:


----------



## Truman42

Chunkious said:


> Put the figures into beermate as a 23L batch, then scale down the batch size to what you want. The ingredients will scale down accordingly.



Im trying to add my figures into beer mate but don't quite get it. Under the grain section it has a comment box that says "Specialty grains that dont require mashing, but all the grains I am adding to this recipe require mashing.

Also when adding new grains to the table below what exactly is this "Potential" I can get the EBC from the suppliers website but not the potential.

Name Potential EBC
Amber 50	1.034	50


----------



## chunckious

Don't know Truman, never added grains before. I just use whats in the drop down boxes. I don't mind if I cant find the exact brand, I just bring basic ale/pilsener/wheat grains.


----------



## Truman42

shan0066 said:


> Exactly what manticle said. It is easier to explain it all when doing a practical. The whole BIAG process is very easy, you just need someone to show you. No affiliation but Thirsty Boy and Geoff will be doing a demo next weekend the 27th of august an Grain and Grape. They are very good at explaining the whole process. Failing that you could ask if you could go a watch/help someone in your area on here.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Shan



That sounds perfect, I will try and get up there this Saturday. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Siborg

I grabbed 500g of fresh galaxy flowers last time I was up at grain and grape. I might give Daemons recipe a go on Friday, but was thinking of hop bursting from 5 mins with no bittering addition. I no-chill so will have to take it easy on the additions, and will be dry hopping the shed out of it for a few days. I might do a 1 min aroma steep in the coffee plunger as well, just for good measure.


----------



## Wolfman

What's everyones thoughts on brewing this with a larger yeast?


----------



## Siborg

shan0066 said:


> What's everyones thoughts on brewing this with a larger yeast?


IIRC, there is a low to moderate ester profile going on there. In terms of doing a clone, I'd stick with an ale yeast.

Would be interesting to try a galaxy pilsner.... could be a worthwhile experiment.


----------



## Wolfman

Yer I have a heap of lager yeast here so I thought it would be a experiment, might just keep it as an ale yeast. I'm liking the galaxy flavours alot, howd your clone go Siborg?


----------



## Siborg

shan0066 said:


> Yer I have a heap of lager yeast here so I thought it would be a experiment, might just keep it as an ale yeast. I'm liking the galaxy flavours alot, howd your clone go Siborg?


haven't brewed it yet. gonna brew tomorrow.


----------



## loikar

This is very similar. The Caramunich boosts the malt profile slightly and the cascade rounds off those sharp edges.
Using a High AA like Galaxy at the back tends to give a sharpness to the bitterness.
Using something less AA for your bittering addition tends to round that sharpness off and make it smoother.
Mash at 64-66
Pilsner malt, so 90min boil.

try to use whole hops for the boil and first dry hop.
Rack after 7 days and use pellets, unless you have something to filter out the hop floaties.
Tastes better from the keg, but nice from the bottle.



Code:


Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Batch Size: 25.00 L	  

Boil Size: 36.08 L

Estimated OG: 1.047 SG

Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM

Estimated IBU: 21.4 IBU

Brewhouse Efficiency: 81.0 %

Boil Time: 90 Minutes



Ingredients:

------------

Amount		Item									 Type		 % or IBU	  

2.75 kg	   Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM)			Grain		59.8 %		

1.75 kg	   Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain		38.0 %		

0.10 kg	   Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM)	  Grain		2.2 %		 

10.00 gm	  Galaxy [14.70%]  (15 min)				Hops		 7.8 IBU	   

10.00 gm	  Cascade [6.70%]  (60 min)				Hops		 7.2 IBU	   

20.00 gm	  Galaxy [14.70%]  (5 min)				 Hops		 6.3 IBU	   

50.00 gm	  Galaxy [13.50%]  (Dry Hop 10 days)	   Hops		  -			

50.00 gm	  Galaxy [13.50%]  (Dry Hop 5 days)		Hops		  -			

50.00 gm	  Galaxy [14.70%]  (0 min)				 Hops		  -			

1 Pkgs		California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051)	Yeast-Ale


And for something slightly different, more 'stone fruit' and yet just as tasty that your wife\girlfriend will absolutely love.
Once again, cascade at the back.



Code:


Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Batch Size: 25.00 L	  

Boil Size: 36.08 L

Estimated OG: 1.047 SG

Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM

Estimated IBU: 19.8 IBU

Brewhouse Efficiency: 81.0 %

Boil Time: 90 Minutes



Ingredients:

------------

Amount		Item									 Type		 % or IBU	  

2.75 kg	   Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM)			Grain		59.8 %		

1.75 kg	   Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM)   Grain		38.0 %		

0.10 kg	   Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM)	  Grain		2.2 %		 

10.00 gm	  Cascade [5.30%]  (60 min)				Hops		 5.7 IBU	   

10.00 gm	  Pacific Jade [13.70%]  (10 min)		  Hops		 5.3 IBU	   

10.00 gm	  Cascade [5.30%]  (20 min)				Hops		 3.5 IBU	   

10.00 gm	  Pacific Jade [13.70%]  (5 min)		   Hops		 2.9 IBU	   

10.00 gm	  Citra [11.10%]  (5 min)				  Hops		 2.4 IBU	   

25.00 gm	  Citra [11.10%]  (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops		  -			

25.00 gm	  Citra [11.10%]  (Dry Hop 5 days)		 Hops		  -			

25.00 gm	  Pacific Jade [13.70%]  (0 min) (Aroma HopHops		  -			

25.00 gm	  Pacific Jade [13.70%]  (Dry Hop 5 days)  Hops		  -							 

1 Pkgs		California Ale (White Labs #WLP001)	  Yeast-Ale


Cheers,

Beer Fingers


----------



## Siborg

edit: wasn't trying for a "clone" as such, but more of a S&W "inspired" beer 

So I put down a galaxy ale yesterday. Just threw something quick together:

3Kg JW Trad Ale
1.5Kg Wheat
0.2Kg Munich (light)

Hops: all 14% AA galaxy flowers
5g @ 4mins
5g @ 3mins
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] and whirlpooled

As I was no chilling, IBU's are effectively calculated by adding approx. 15 mins on to those additions. 

I'm going to french press a ridiculous amount of flowers in my 1L plunger. I'm also contemplating dry hopping with some of these flowers. I must say they just smelt soo good. 

IBU should fall somewhere between 20-30 and OG was 1.059 in something like 17L, so will definitely be watering down when I pitch some US05 on to it.

If I were to brew this again, I'd drop back the ale by maybe half a kilo as I was aiming for more like 1.045-1.050 OG. 

I still have another 250g bag of flowers so will wait and see how this turns out and make some tweaks for the next on.


----------



## kcurnow

Snow said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.
> 
> Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
> The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Brewer: Snow
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
> 1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
> 12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
> 1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
> Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
> Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
> Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
> Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color
> 
> 
> Mash Profile
> 
> My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 60 min Step 66.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
> Batch sparge 78C
> 
> 
> Cheers - Snow.



I'm looking at brewing this for one of my mates wedding, it should go down a treat.


----------



## micblair

About to put an order in for a grain and hop bill to give this beer a shot -- has anyone made any improvement on the work of Snow or others out there? Seeing a mixture of recipes that call for both malted and torrified wheat up to 40% of the total grain bill. Cheers.


----------



## krausenhaus

I've pasted my recipe below. I aimed for 60/40 pale/malted&torrified wheat as per the S&W website, and aimed to get most of my bitterness from late hops.

It turned out really similar apart from having a higher bitterness (definitely didn't taste like 19 IBU), which became a lot more apparent after a couple of weeks in the keg. I would drop the 30min addition next time.

I dry hopped in two batches to avoid grassy notes - just had a hop bag on some fishing line that I pulled out after 3-4 days.

5.500 kg Maris Otter Malt (57.89%)
3.000 kg Wheat Malt (31.58%)
0.500 kg Rice Hulls (5.26%)
0.500 kg Torrified Wheat (5.26%)

Hop Bill
----------------
12.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
30.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
40.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
50.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (1.3 g/L)
70.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (3.5 g/L)
70.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 3 Days (Dry Hop) (3.5 g/L)

Single step Infusion at 65C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 18C with Safale US-05


----------



## micblair

krausenhaus said:


> I've pasted my recipe below. I aimed for 60/40 pale/malted&torrified wheat as per the S&W website, and aimed to get most of my bitterness from late hops.
> 
> It turned out really similar apart from having a higher bitterness (definitely didn't taste like 19 IBU), which became a lot more apparent after a couple of weeks in the keg. I would drop the 30min addition next time.
> 
> I dry hopped in two batches to avoid grassy notes - just had a hop bag on some fishing line that I pulled out after 3-4 days.
> 
> 5.500 kg Maris Otter Malt (57.89%)
> 3.000 kg Wheat Malt (31.58%)
> 0.500 kg Rice Hulls (5.26%)
> 0.500 kg Torrified Wheat (5.26%)
> 
> Hop Bill
> ----------------
> 12.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.3 g/L)
> 30.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
> 40.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
> 50.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (1.3 g/L)
> 70.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (3.5 g/L)
> 70.0 g Galaxy Leaf (11.9% Alpha) @ 3 Days (Dry Hop) (3.5 g/L)
> 
> Single step Infusion at 65C for 60 Minutes.
> Fermented at 18C with Safale US-05



What effect is using 5% torrified wheat achieving, assuming 30% wheat malt is providing head retention etc, mouth feel, aesthetics etc?


----------



## krausenhaus

micblair said:


> What effect is using 5% torrified wheat achieving, assuming 30% wheat malt is providing head retention etc, mouth feel, aesthetics etc?



I actually meant to use 1kg of it and have it up at about 10%, but I accidentally only ordered 500g.

And quite frankly, I don't know - I only included it based on the S&W ingredients they list, I'm likely going to leave it out next time and see if there's any discernible difference (unlikely I imagine).


----------



## elronalds

Snow said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.
> 
> Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
> The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Brewer: Snow
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
> 1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
> 12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
> 1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
> Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
> Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
> Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
> Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color
> 
> 
> Mash Profile
> 
> My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 60 min Step 66.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
> Batch sparge 78C
> 
> 
> Cheers - Snow.


If I brewed this using BIAB would I just throw the mash hop in at the start of the mash (along with the grains) and then remove it after the mash out, or should it be in a hop bag and stay there for the whole boil? I have never done a mash hop before so not sure.

Thanks!


----------



## Snow

Hi Elronalds,

I recommend you remove the mash hops before you boil, as it would make the brew too bitter if you left them in.

Cheers - Snow.


----------



## pressure_tested

I just brewed this (as my first ever) BIAB on Sunday. Got 25 Litres out of it with an efficiency of about 75-80%
Same malt bill. skipped the Mash hops. Dropped the dry hops down to 30g and will add 3 days before bottling.
Used Wyeast 1056
Original gravity of 1.045
Brewing away in the fridge at 20 degrees
Will return in 3 weeks to let you know how it went for me.



Snow said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.
> 
> Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
> The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Brewer: Snow
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
> 1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
> 12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
> 1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
> Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
> Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
> Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
> Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color
> 
> 
> Mash Profile
> 
> My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 60 min Step 66.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
> Batch sparge 78C
> 
> 
> Cheers - Snow.


----------



## pressure_tested

So I only carbonated to 2.2 volumes because I'm a rookie. This was no where near enough. It tasted heaps better from the stubbie as opposed to out of a glass where the lack of carbonation was much more noticeable.

Flavour wise I could have told myself I was drinking Stone & Wood's version except that mine was lacking some hop flavour and aroma (even when drinking from a tulip glass). All of the boys loved it. Next time I will increase the flavour and dry hops and increase to maybe 3 volumes of co2??

Will report back in a couple of months


----------



## Charst

2.5 is pretty stock for most american pale ales type recipes, 3.0 volumes is getting into belgian territory.


----------



## pressure_tested

i see. I don't have beer smith at our brewery so I just use an online calculator. When I do the calculation I should just be putting in the volume that will actually be bottled into these calculators, right? maybe the scales are off because this beer was pretty close to flat.


----------



## gap

How long has it been in the bottle?? Maybe not fully carbonated yet????


----------



## pressure_tested

2 weeks in the bottle. I realise that longer would be better but all of the books I've read say it should be carbonated by then


----------



## brad81

Snow said:


> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops


Thanks for the recipe Snow, I'm in the process of fermenting it now. The only difference being leaving the sodium metabisulphate out.

In regards to the dry hopping, I was wondering if anyone could clarify that one for me. Do I wait 10 days from the beginning of the fermentation, do I dry hop with that much galaxy for 10 days (sounds like a little too long to me)? I haven't dry hopped before.

Can I CC for 3-4days and dry hop during the CC phase?


----------



## pressure_tested

Don't know about the CC thing but dry hop for at least 3-4 days.
This beer needs big aroma.
A mixture of pellets and flowers seems to work the best for me.


----------



## technobabble66

Also don't know about the CC thing, & i'd also dry hop for 3-4 days.
I'd also leave the fermentation to go close to completion before dry hopping. Every bubble of CO2 leaving the beer scrubs out that tasty hops aroma. So i'd wait until its down to maybe 1 bubble every 1-2mins (assuming you've got an airlock on). For me thats been around day 5-7 after pitching.

Oh, just saw the flowers thing - that might complicate it.
I was under the impression flowers need to dry hop a lot longer. The Motueka flowers i recently dry hopped a DSGA with were in the FV for ~14 days.
Galaxy can be pretty full-on, so i don't know if that kinda time is also required or if it'll turn a bit harsh on you. My Galaxy dry-hopping (earlier brew) was done with pellets. Pellets are reputed to be more likely to release harsher notes than flowers, so if the 4 days i had my pellets in there for were fine, maybe the equivalent is 1-2 weeks for flowers (?).


----------



## Charst

brad81 said:


> Thanks for the recipe Snow, I'm in the process of fermenting it now. The only difference being leaving the sodium metabisulphate out.
> 
> In regards to the dry hopping, I was wondering if anyone could clarify that one for me. Do I wait 10 days from the beginning of the fermentation, do I dry hop with that much galaxy for 10 days (sounds like a little too long to me)? I haven't dry hopped before.
> 
> Can I CC for 3-4days and dry hop during the CC phase?


Thats how I do it Brad, Usually dont Dry hop for much more than 4 days and I CC at the same time. 
A Pro brewer told me he Dry hops way longer and that you'll get greater hop utilisation if you dont Dry hop while CCing.
but i haven't tried it as yet


----------



## brad81

Well the hopsock has been in starsan since last night. The dry hopping hopefully begins this evening.

Thanks for the advice all, I appreciate it.

I'll have to check the gravity tonight, and see if it is ready for CCing.

edit: and it's pellets too


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

brad81 said:


> Well the hopsock has been in starsan since last night. The dry hopping hopefully begins this evening.
> 
> Thanks for the advice all, I appreciate it.
> 
> I'll have to check the gravity tonight, and see if it is ready for CCing.
> 
> edit: and it's pellets too



how'd it turn out?


----------



## Harty

Love this thread. Will have to brew this this weekend.


----------



## Harty

I'm going to try rolled oats in this baby for more mouthfeel and head retention

Has anyone dry hopped with flowers before in a conical? I haven't, but am keen too. Do the flowers float or sink to the bottom??


----------



## peter.b

Harty said:


> I'm going to try rolled oats in this baby for more mouthfeel and head retention
> 
> Has anyone dry hopped with flowers before in a conical? I haven't, but am keen too. Do the flowers float or sink to the bottom??


If you've got around 40% wheat in your grain bill you won't need Oats for head retention. Try increasing your Mash temp, I've only brewed this once myself, but 66C is about where you need it. Oats will provide a silkiness, but that's not stated on S&W's website as an ingredient.

I dry hop in a cylindro/conical as well, nearly always flowers, nearly always in a cheese cloth type bag. Makes for easy clean out and the large weave of the bag allows plenty of goodies to transfer to finished product. As far as floating, it doesn't really matter, time is the important factor.


----------



## sixfignig

Brewing a variation of this tomorrow as my first BIAB.

Will report back.


----------



## earle

Here's one I prepared earlier

Galaxy pale ale (aka Stone & Wood) dry hopped with Ella


----------



## Moad

Brewed this today, colour looked spot on for stone and wood. I got 1.044 which was 2 points short, could have boiled off a little more but wasn't worried.

I put half of the whirlpool Hops in the kettle and half in the hop back. Will dry hop once ferment is done and report back in a few weeks


----------



## technobabble66

@ Earle & Moad: recipe??

Or is it the Snow's one pressure_tested mentions in post#82?


Edit: corrected post number


----------



## Moad

Post 82 yep that one


----------



## tj2204

I put one of these down last night.

3kg BB Ale
1.5kg BB Wheat
5gm Galaxy (13.4% AA) @ FWH
25gm Galaxy @ cube
Will dry hop the 70gm I have left.

Didn't check OG before I cubed, will just check before I throw the yeast on (prob use BRY97)


----------



## technobabble66

Brewed one at the end of October and kept in a cube until Friday the 27/11. 

Recipe details here.

But basically close to 60:40 MO & Wheat, plus a little CaraPils & Acidulated.
Cube-hopped 30g Galaxy, to dry hop 70g once it's fermented out using WLP051.

I'm sure it'll change after fermentation, but fwiw, a sample out of the cube was a pretty harsh bittering. Maybe Galaxy doesn't cube-hop so well...


----------



## tj2204

It'll be right, from my experience unfermented wort always tastes pretty rough!


----------



## technobabble66

I'm hoping so, but this is a lot rougher than normal. Tastes like i've sucked on a few teabags.

Makes me wonder if Galaxy and some of the other hops renown for being harsh bitterers might simply be high in polyphenols.


----------



## tj2204

technobabble66 said:


> I'm hoping so, but this is a lot rougher than normal. Tastes like i've sucked on a few teabags.
> 
> Makes me wonder if Galaxy and some of the other hops renown for being harsh bitterers might simply be high in polyphenols.


Been in the fermenter a week now, took a gravity reading and sample and mine tastes great. Certainly no harsh bitterness.

How is yours going, techno?


----------



## technobabble66

False alarm :lol: 2 days into active fermentation and it was smooth as a baby's. 
It's now well fermented out. Annoyingly this 3rd run with a batch of WLP051 (prev 2 were diff brews) decided to ferment out a little higher and more importantly my mash temp slipped a bit (down from 66 to 62.5 at the end of the sacch step). I thought I might've gotten away with it, but the FG kept dropping down to 1.006 instead of 1.011. . So it'll be a fraction thin I think. The Wheat stands out like dogs balls. Like those 'Merican Wheats. Not what I was after, tbh. So I'll see what it's like after dry hopping and carbing in the bottle. Curious to see whether the claim SWPA is 40% wheat malt is bollocks
Speaking of dry hopping, I threw in 70g Galaxy & started CCing last night down to 8*C today. Hoping to bottle tmrw morning


----------



## tj2204

Good stuff, I threw my 70 gm dry hop in last night too. I'll give at 3 or 4 days at ferment temp then crash to 0 for a few days. 

Can't wait to get this one in to the keg.


----------



## Frothy1

tj2204 said:


> Good stuff, I threw my 70 gm dry hop in last night too. I'll give at 3 or 4 days at ferment temp then crash to 0 for a few days.
> 
> Can't wait to get this one in to the keg.



So how did you go with this TJ??

I'm very interested in your hop method.


----------



## gaijin

Frothy1 said:


> So how did you go with this TJ??
> 
> I'm very interested in your hop method.


If you're interested in FWH, I can say that my experience with it is that it has taken away most of the harshness that I used to get. I've accidentally not FWH'd and noticed a much harsher bitterness in the finished beer. Cohumulone content in my bittering hop was partially to blame though - I think Galaxy is relatively high to others (32%-42%) compared to mid 20s for other primary bittering hops.

Also, my crack at a S&W PA clone a few years ago tasted pretty close to the original - 30% BB wheat malt by the way with 100% Galaxy. I only dry hopped with 10g, with most of my additions at 10,0. I wouldn't dry hop with much more as I recently did a mental IPA, dry hopped with 80g of a mix of hops (lots of Galaxy) for 6 days and it was super grassy. I've read plenty of reports that dry hopped Galaxy can turn your beer super grassy, so I would stick to the 10,0 additions if I were you, or maybe dry hop for <3 days.

I'd love to hear how the 70g dry hopped turns out - I would love to be wrong about Galaxy dry hopping - as its aroma is amazing.


----------



## tj2204

The 70gm dry hop was good, aroma didn't last as long as I'd like though. I usually dry hop in the keg and leave the hop bag in til it kicks, I was too scared to do this with the galaxy though.

The beer itself was only okay in my opinion, it did get rave reviews from everyone else who tried it, just wasn't bitter enough for me.


----------



## Frothy1

You probably nailed it then, Pacific ale really isn't a bitter beer.
Brew day tomorrow and I was thinking of missing the 60 min addition all together and adding it as FWH instead.


----------



## tj2204

Yeah mate, that's what I did. FWH and cube hop only


----------



## Bribie G

Generally I dislike Pacific Ale, to me it lacks body and is more like an "entry level" craft beer, pale and mild with upfront hops to educate the lumpen masses with probably their first experience of hops. In a way it's like a slightly more aromatic Kosciusko "craft-washed" effort and ooohhh it's cloudy, must be one of those things that those hipsters like, let's try it.

However recently I had to go back to Bribie Island for a funeral and checked out the new Sandstone Point pub that has opened since I left. They had Lashes and Pacific on tap so I went a couple of the Pacifics and they were, in that context, a brilliant quaffer (as opposed to when I had previously tried the brew in competition with the likes of Murrays or Four Pines when in Newcastle pubs).

I'd agree that it really relies on the upfront dry hopping and is not by any means a bitter beer, I'd guess your impression was based on "bitterness creep" that seems to afflict us brewers.

If doing "clones" one thing to check for, is to revisit the appropriate brewery website now and again and see what's happening with the brew. For example I really enjoyed Murray's Moon Boy Golden Ale and see that they have changed the late hopping from Pacifica to a combination of Motueka and Ella, for some reason, as well as upping the ABV by a couple of points.

Bloody craft brewers, why can't they be consistent like VB. :angry:


----------



## Dan K

I'm just going to throw this out there as no ones really touched on the possibilities and I believe it's probably impossible to clone this beer with out something along these lines. I drink a ton of this beer weekly and have sat round thinking about what might be in it for a while now. I honestly think the yeast that they use in this beer is a Kolsch yeast and that is what makes this beer so unique compared to other ales in the market.

Here's a few points which made me come to this consensus. I understand all the possible arguments against my points but here I go and I've got a recently brewed recipe and a side by side photo to follow.

* The beer is usually fairly cloudy and hazey and the haze is more of a yeast haze. Characteristic of a Kolsch yeast.

* When the beer is fresh I personally get a fair amount of Sulfur out of it. Characteristic of a Kolsch yeast that mellows with age. 

* Once the beer has been sitting around in the fridge for a reasonable amount of time most the yeast drops out and the beer becomes a Lager like Ale. Characteristic that the yeast manufactures also state about this strain.

* This may be my strongest point. Stone and Wood Jasper Ale is inspired by a German Alt beer and pretty much is one. I wouldn't be surprised if they us the same yeast in that beer too.

* Their Green Coast Lager is also deliberately cloudy another possibility of the use of a Kolsch yeast. 

Anyway here is what I put down a few months ago now and I believe the malt and yeast character is very close. Something I dont think could be replicated with an American Ale or English Ale strain.

Grain Bill thanks to Snow:

60% Ale Malt
40% Wheat Malt
Estimated OG 1.044
Estimated FG 1.012

Yeast:

Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast

Fermented at 16C. Will go a bit lower next time as it was kick'n. I think 14C would be good spot for this yeast.

Hops:

Play around and do what you think will get you close based on your system and process. I wasn't going for an exact clone just something very similar. The malt and the yeast will get you most of the way there for the overall beer. All Galaxy Pellets. (I know it's rumoured they use flowers but I had pellets on hand).

60 mins

5 mins

1 mins

WP

Dry Hop:

3 grams per litre for 3 days.

The beer will be real hazy at first after kegging due to the Kolsch Yeast and doesn't really clear up all that well for a while. But buy a bottle of Pacific Ale and roll it to get all the yeast of the bottom as per the instructions on their website and you'll find it's quite similar. Next time I reckon I'll cold crash for longer then usual, probably two weeks to get a bit more but not all of the yeast out.

Also in regards to the instructions on their website to roll the bottle and get the yeast back up in to suspension. I highly doubt you could get that much American or English Ale yeast back up in to suspension and still have such a great tasting beer.

Any way give it a crack if you like. The yeast is a major player in my opinion. And either way you'll still get a nice drinking summer ale.

Cheers 

Here's the photo, the one on the right is my Home Brew.


----------



## Dan K

Hargie said:


> ...thanks for the comments guys, i spend every day brewing,hopping, kegging, packing and generally caring for these beers..glad you like 'em...
> 
> ...as for the recipes, i'm under an obvious obligation not to give out commercially sensitive info...so, i wont apart from saying...keep guessing guys...one of the great joys of brewing is the voyage of discovery... ...
> 
> ...Scott...


Now that you no longer work there are you able to give us at least a little hint in regards to my yeast rant. 

Cheers


----------



## Frothy1

Dan K said:


> 60 mins
> 
> 5 mins
> 
> 1 mins
> 
> WP
> 
> Dry Hop:


Hi Dan.

Do you mind sharing the amounts for your hop addition?

Cheers,


----------



## Dan K

Yeah no probs... I'll say this though, I build recipes based on me knowing what I get out of out of my system so it may be a little different for you. My main point in this topic was to highlight the yeast possibilities. 

Anyway here's my hop amounts for a 40 litre batch. 

60 mins 23g @ 12.8% AA = 20.3 IBU

5 mins 60g @ 12.8% AA = 10.5 IBU 

1 min 60g @ 12.8% AA = 2.3 IBU 

WP for 10 mins 60g @ 12.8% AA half way through. 

I don't calculate IBUs for WP additions. I know it makes a difference for overall IBUs. But that's just how I do things on my system. And with such late additions the perceived bitterness is much lower anyway. 

Remember those amounts are for a 40 litre batch too. 

Dry Hop 

3g per litre for 3 days. 


Cheers


----------



## Matplat

Dan K said:


> Now that you no longer work there are you able to give us at least a little hint in regards to my yeast rant.
> 
> Cheers


Don't you wish you could tag people on this forum... Something I often think of.


----------



## Frothy1

Dan K said:


> Yeah no probs... I'll say this though, I build recipes based on me knowing what I get out of out of my system so it may be a little different for you. My main point in this topic was to highlight the yeast possibilities.
> 
> Anyway here's my hop amounts for a 40 litre batch.
> 
> 60 mins 23g @ 12.8% AA = 20.3 IBU
> 
> 5 mins 60g @ 12.8% AA = 10.5 IBU
> 
> 1 min 60g @ 12.8% AA = 2.3 IBU
> 
> WP for 10 mins 60g @ 12.8% AA half way through.
> 
> I don't calculate IBUs for WP additions. I know it makes a difference for overall IBUs. But that's just how I do things on my system. And with such late additions the perceived bitterness is much lower anyway.
> 
> Remember those amounts are for a 40 litre batch too.
> 
> Dry Hop
> 
> 3g per litre for 3 days.
> 
> 
> Cheers


Thanks Dan.

Do you keg or bottle?


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

Dan K said:


> Yeah no probs... I'll say this though, I build recipes based on me knowing what I get out of out of my system so it may be a little different for you. My main point in this topic was to highlight the yeast possibilities.
> 
> Anyway here's my hop amounts for a 40 litre batch.
> 
> 60 mins 23g @ 12.8% AA = 20.3 IBU
> 
> 5 mins 60g @ 12.8% AA = 10.5 IBU
> 
> 1 min 60g @ 12.8% AA = 2.3 IBU
> 
> WP for 10 mins 60g @ 12.8% AA half way through.
> 
> I don't calculate IBUs for WP additions. I know it makes a difference for overall IBUs. But that's just how I do things on my system. And with such late additions the perceived bitterness is much lower anyway.
> 
> Remember those amounts are for a 40 litre batch too.
> 
> Dry Hop
> 
> 3g per litre for 3 days.
> 
> 
> Cheers


Personally, I'd keep the IBU down to around 18. Galaxy is harsh for bittering and i would scrap the 60min addition.
I love this beer when its fresh from the keg. Its my go to beer when its on tap.


----------



## Dan K

_WALLACE_ said:


> Personally, I'd keep the IBU down to around 18. Galaxy is harsh for bittering and i would scrap the 60min addition.
> I love this beer when its fresh from the keg. Its my go to beer when its on tap.


Yeah fair call to reduce the IBU a bit. 

My main objective was to get people thinking about the yeast thats probably in it. I maybe wrong but money is on that it's a Kolsch yeast and they use that yeast in all 3 of their core beers. Jasper Ale, Pacific Ale and Green Coast Lager. The Lagering period for the Jasper Ale and Green Coast Lager is what clears those beers out more then the Pacific Ale.


----------



## Frothy1

Well... Ok, if your in the mood for a laugh.

I did my first all grain on the weekend with Snow's recipe Check out this recipe from Snow:-
All went well apart from overshooting my boil volume by 3 liters.......Ouch, I've now set my mash tun deadspace.
Also had trouble hitting my mash temp so I added 2 kettles worth of boiled water, but I got there,
Then, couldn't reach my sparge temp but hit 72c, and after boiling it down for 3 hours to an OG of 1.042, I figured this might be OK.



Personally, I'd keep the IBU down to around 18. Galaxy is harsh for bittering and i would scrap the 60min addition.
I love this beer when its fresh from the keg. Its my go to beer when its on tap.



I did scrap the 60 minute addition, but FWH 10g, the rest of the hop schedule is the same as Snow's.
When it went into the FV it had some bitterness to it, Probably just right for me, but I dont think in line with the Pacific ale IBU

I boiled it down for 3 hours... Hahaha.
After it took an hour to start boiling on my gas stove top wok burner, i went and bought a 3 ring burner.
Yes, the boil was supervised in my absence, but i'm sure it made all the difference having that vigorous boil.

It's bubbling away now, so I'm guessing its going to be beer.
A lighter beer but beer none the less.


I'm sure one of you experienced brewers can instill me with confidence that my first all grain should turn out ok?

Cheers, Froth


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Prediction: it will be great and you'll drink it all before your next all-grain is ready.


----------



## Frothy1

Liam_snorkel said:


> Prediction: it will be great and you'll drink it all before your next all-grain is ready.


Here's hoping.


----------



## JDW81

_WALLACE_ said:


> Galaxy is harsh for bittering and i would scrap the 60min addition.


I haven't found this to be the case when I use Galaxy (and i've used it a lot lately).

My current house beer is a knock of MG fancy pants, which is exclusively Galaxy. I get about 25% of my IBUs from a 60 minute addition and the remainder from a massive cube hop and it gives me a beautiful smooth bitterness. Having said that I rarely use my 60 minute addition to give me more than ~30% of my IBUs in hop forward beers.

Keep the 60 minute addition to about 10-15 of your total IBUs and get the rest from late hopping (cube or otherwise).

Just my way of doing things.

JD


----------



## Ferg

I brewed snows recipe for this recently with all late additions and dry hopping in the fermenter. Tasting it out of the fermenter the taste and aroma were perfect but since I have kegged it I find it a little lacking. I'm tempted to try some keg hopping with this. On a side note I managed to scorch my heating element - maybe a by product of using 40% wheat I guess.

JD - do you have a recipe for the MG fancy pants that you would be willing to share?


----------



## JDW81

Of course mate :icon_offtopic:

70% 2-row
14% Munich
8% Wheat
7.5% Light Crystal
0.5% Roast malt

Galaxy at 60 minutues to 14 IBUs
Galaxy in the cube to achieve 17 IBUs
2g/L dry hop at ~7 days

Ferment with US05/1056/1272 (whatever you like really)

Drink fresh.

This gets me pretty close on my system, with my processes, however might need a bit of tweaking for yours to get it right.

JD


----------



## Woggy_g

im still on the liquid malt extract brewing ( first ever brew going for second week in the bottles ) . is it possible to get close by using kits? i would love to get close to the stone and wood taste but i dont have an idea of how to get to it using cans. one day ill be brave enough to go all grain.


----------



## seamad

The pacific ale is about 40% wheat ( I use 50/50 raw to malted wheat which you can't do via tins) so the closest you'll get is to grab a tin of the coopers wheat malt, which is actually 50/50 barley/wheat . If you want to up the barley % a bit add some dry malt.


----------



## Frothy1

Woggy_g said:


> im still on the liquid malt extract brewing ( first ever brew going for second week in the bottles ) . is it possible to get close by using kits? i would love to get close to the stone and wood taste but i dont have an idea of how to get to it using cans. one day ill be brave enough to go all grain.



Woggy.

Do you want an all extract recipe or a kit and kilo recipe?


----------



## Woggy_g

kit and kilo will be awesome


----------



## Frothy1

Woggy_g said:


> kit and kilo will be awesome


Try this Woggy.

1 can of coopers APA or Blonde will probably be less bitter ( i like the APA)
1 can of wheat malt extract
300g dex for the hop boil in 5 liters of water.
15g galaxy @ 15 mins
15g galaxy @ 5 mins
15g galaxy @ 0 mins
US05 yeast
Made to 23 litres.
40 grams galaxy dry hopped.


----------



## Woggy_g

thanks 



Frothy1 said:


> Try this Woggy.
> 
> 1 can of coopers APA or Blonde will probably be less bitter ( i like the APA)
> 1 can of wheat malt extract
> 300g dex for the hop boil in 5 liters of water.
> 15g galaxy @ 15 mins
> 15g galaxy @ 5 mins
> 15g galaxy @ 0 mins
> US05 yeast
> Made to 23 litres.
> 40 grams galaxy dry hopped.


thanks a million - will give it a go this weekend.


----------



## Woggy_g

@frothy1 - off topic - got a kolsch recipe lying around ?


----------



## Frothy1

Woggy_g said:


> @frothy1 - off topic - got a kolsch recipe lying around ?


Nah sorry not Kolsch recipes..

But speaking of kolsch, next time I do a Stone and Wood clone i'm going to use Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast as Dan K has mentioned.

Oh yeah, I just looked through my notes and I recommended scrapping the 15 min addition with the coopers APA and adding it to the 5 min addition if I wanted to make it more like the  S&W PA .
Personally, I like a bitter beer and S&W PA is not one.... But the flavor and aroma is amazing..


----------



## Coodgee

I did a side by side comparison of my first version of this with a commercial bottle. 40grams was not enough dry hops to get the aroma i was getting out of the bottle. I would recommend at least 80 grams dry hopped with 120g being optimal.


----------



## Frothy1

Coodgee said:


> I did a side by side comparison of my first version of this with a commercial bottle. 40grams was not enough dry hops to get the aroma i was getting out of the bottle. I would recommend at least 80 grams dry hopped with 120g being optimal.


Hi Coodgee.

Are you dry hopping in the keg?


----------



## Coodgee

No in either primary or secondary. I am about to dry hop a batch this week and I'll do it in primary about 4 days after f.g has been reached and at 18 degrees for 4 days. Last time i dry hopped cold and i didn't get half as much aroma add the previous time.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I second the observation above. Last time I tried this I added my hops just before cold crashing and the result was not what I expected. This time I'll dry-hop once FG has been reached and hold off cold crashing for 4 days as per above.

One thing we probably can't avoid is that the aroma and flavour for galaxy (maybe all hops?) just will not last and this beer needs to be drunk fresh. Even with the commercial S&W I can tell if a keg has been on tap for a while, or if a bottle is not out of a fresh batch. I've even been able to tell when a pub has changed kegs mid drinking session.

Fortunately Pacific Ale is a very tasty drop and lends itself to being drunk very quickly.


----------



## Jrrj

Dan K said:


> I'm just going to throw this out there as no ones really touched on the possibilities and I believe it's probably impossible to clone this beer with out something along these lines. I drink a ton of this beer weekly and have sat round thinking about what might be in it for a while now. I honestly think the yeast that they use in this beer is a Kolsch yeast and that is what makes this beer so unique compared to other ales in the market.
> 
> Here's a few points which made me come to this consensus. I understand all the possible arguments against my points but here I go and I've got a recently brewed recipe and a side by side photo to follow.
> 
> * The beer is usually fairly cloudy and hazey and the haze is more of a yeast haze. Characteristic of a Kolsch yeast.
> 
> * When the beer is fresh I personally get a fair amount of Sulfur out of it. Characteristic of a Kolsch yeast that mellows with age.
> 
> * Once the beer has been sitting around in the fridge for a reasonable amount of time most the yeast drops out and the beer becomes a Lager like Ale. Characteristic that the yeast manufactures also state about this strain.
> 
> * This may be my strongest point. Stone and Wood Jasper Ale is inspired by a German Alt beer and pretty much is one. I wouldn't be surprised if they us the same yeast in that beer too.
> 
> * Their Green Coast Lager is also deliberately cloudy another possibility of the use of a Kolsch yeast.
> 
> Anyway here is what I put down a few months ago now and I believe the malt and yeast character is very close. Something I dont think could be replicated with an American Ale or English Ale strain.
> 
> Grain Bill thanks to Snow:
> 
> 60% Ale Malt
> 40% Wheat Malt
> Estimated OG 1.044
> Estimated FG 1.012
> 
> Yeast:
> 
> Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast
> 
> Fermented at 16C. Will go a bit lower next time as it was kick'n. I think 14C would be good spot for this yeast.
> 
> Hops:
> 
> Play around and do what you think will get you close based on your system and process. I wasn't going for an exact clone just something very similar. The malt and the yeast will get you most of the way there for the overall beer. All Galaxy Pellets. (I know it's rumoured they use flowers but I had pellets on hand).
> 
> 60 mins
> 
> 5 mins
> 
> 1 mins
> 
> WP
> 
> Dry Hop:
> 
> 3 grams per litre for 3 days.
> 
> The beer will be real hazy at first after kegging due to the Kolsch Yeast and doesn't really clear up all that well for a while. But buy a bottle of Pacific Ale and roll it to get all the yeast of the bottom as per the instructions on their website and you'll find it's quite similar. Next time I reckon I'll cold crash for longer then usual, probably two weeks to get a bit more but not all of the yeast out.
> 
> Also in regards to the instructions on their website to roll the bottle and get the yeast back up in to suspension. I highly doubt you could get that much American or English Ale yeast back up in to suspension and still have such a great tasting beer.
> 
> Any way give it a crack if you like. The yeast is a major player in my opinion. And either way you'll still get a nice drinking summer ale.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Here's the photo, the one on the right is my Home Brew.


Thanks Dan - I've been wondering about the yeast on this beer for months. My first clone attempt I just used US05 but, like you, I didn't feel like it was the right yeast. Because of other issues with that batch, I couldn't properly assess whether the yeast worked.

Another of your points that resonates with me is the sulfur - that is something I really enjoy about the commercial version, it just works so well for me in hot weather. I wasn't sure if it was yeast-driven or if they created it in the water.

I will definitely try your suggestion of Wyeast 2565 next time. The other thing I was planning to do and will eventually get around to is try to re-culture the bottle-yeast. I figure that way I can tell if the yeast gives me that flavour or if water-modification is needed too.


----------



## JDW81

Jrrj said:


> The other thing I was planning to do and will eventually get around to is try to re-culture the bottle-yeast.


Do they prime with the same strain that they ferment with?

Some breweries use a different priming strain, so you may not end up with the desired result.

JD


----------



## Jrrj

On the bottle they mention it is not filtered, so even if they add more yeast to the bottles there should be something of the original left to work with. I'm guessing (and hoping) they don't bother to complicate the process.

Hopefully somewhere down the track I'll get my microscope, and getting to know the SWPA bottle yeast better would be the first thing I'd do. If there are multiple strains it would at least be theoretically (though possibly not practically) possible for me to isolate each strain and then use them accordingly.


----------



## Coodgee

do yeast strains look physically different?


----------



## yankinoz

I'm a fan, always happy as a fly in doodoo to find it on tap, who would put Stone and Wood near the border between a blonde and an APA, and that's not a bad thing.

What puzzles me is that the brewery has said they hop it only with Galaxy. Very nice and fairly unique late hop in beers of that style, but my experience and that of a few others on this site is that the bittering is harsh. If I were doing your recipe, I'd bitter with Horizon. Any others have thoughts on Stone and Wood's bittering?

No problem with pilsner malt in that style. I heart Bopils, but JW would work.


----------



## Jrrj

Coodgee - according to this site "_n general you will not be able to differentiate between different strains of yeast, though some strains have larger cells than others." 

So I won't hold my breath, but there's always a chance!_


----------



## Dan K

One of the other things that got me thinking about the yeast possibilities was listening to The BN's Brewing With Style episode on American Wheat Beer, the earlier episode from August 2007 in the archives if people want to find it and listen to it. But in that episode Jamil talks about how he thinks the difference between a good American Wheat Beer and an award winning American Wheat Beer is the use of a Kolsch yeast. With an average American Wheat Beer grist being 50% Ale Malt and 50% Wheat Malt that really isn't far off the grist of the 60% Ale Malt 40% Wheat Malt that Snow was told buy one of the old Brewers earlier in this thread. Add some more IBUs then your average American Wheat Beer and your in Pale Ale territory. Another thing Jamil talks about in that episode is the low flocculation of the Kolsch yeast which leaves a haze. 

As I've said before I may be wrong but it's worth looking into in my opinion. And all three of their core beers Pacific Ale, Green Coast Lager, and Jasper Ale have a place for the use of a Kolsch yeast. With Jasper Ale most probably being a definite as it's an Alt Beer.

Cheers


----------



## technobabble66

Update on my version. Mentioned in post #103 & #107.
Recipe is here
Basically 60:40 MO:Wheat, with 100g CaraPils & 150g Acidulated thrown in. 30g Galaxy cube-hopped & 70g Galaxy dry hopped. Fermented with WLP-051.

It's been in the bottle a while now, but it took this long to get around to grabbing a stubby of the original and doing a side by side.

The overview is its similar but needs some refinement, though it could also be something in my process instead, etc.
The colour of mine is definitely a few shades darker. Id guess, but maybe 2-4 EBC too dark
The original has a more honey-like "golden-syrup" (Lyles, not CSR) flavour, which i'd generally find in lighter, more Pilsner, malts. Or from a really pale/light crystal
The bitterness in mine is too high - maybe 5 IBUs perhaps. Not harsh, just too much.
Noticeable herbal element, which i believe came out especially after the dry hopping. So either reduce the dry hops or devise a way to pull them out after 1-2 days dry hopping, while CCing.
Wheat flavour is far too strong. Maybe just something in my process, but i'd halve the amount of wheat in the next batch.
The mouthfeel is similar, though mine is definitely over-carbed.

So basically, i'd revise my recipe to be more like 80:20 Ale:Wheat, but actually split the ale to include some pilsner.
So 53:27:20 MOilsner:Wheat, then use the same 100g CaraPils & 150g Acidulated.

I'd drop the cube hops down to 20g. And i could be tempted to split a little of this into FWH.
Drop the dry hopping to 50g maybe (reluctant!). And/or devise a way to pull the hops out, or simply rack into a secondary (effort!).

The WLP-051 seemed to work fine, but i'd probably stick to US-05 to simplify the variables.
--------

@Dan K. I've been reading your thoughts on the Kolsch Theory. All sounds brilliant and very well argued  
However, to put it simply, the high wheat content is plenty to cause the haze. Mine looked identical in terms of the haze, and WLP051 normally drops fairly easily, especially after CCing, more so once it's been sitting in a cupboard for 2 months. Flavourwise it may or may not involve Kolsch. My tasting of it last night certainly didn't leave me thinking it did - i can think of a few simple ways to access the flavour elements that differentiated it from mine.
OTOH, large-scale operation have access to techniques that we don't so sometimes a home brewer may need alternatives techniques to get a clone right. I'd have doubts that the yeast is a kolsch in the original, but maybe it's an easy way to bring a recipe that's close to be closer 
Just my 2c h34r:


----------



## Frothy1

JDW81 said:


> I haven't found this to be the case when I use Galaxy (and i've used it a lot lately).
> 
> My current house beer is a knock of MG fancy pants, which is exclusively Galaxy. I get about 25% of my IBUs from a 60 minute addition and the remainder from a massive cube hop and it gives me a beautiful smooth bitterness. Having said that I rarely use my 60 minute addition to give me more than ~30% of my IBUs in hop forward beers.
> 
> Keep the 60 minute addition to about 10-15 of your total IBUs and get the rest from late hopping (cube or otherwise).
> 
> Just my way of doing things.
> 
> JD




I did 10g FWH with snows recipe using pellets, not a harsh bitterness at all.


----------



## Coodgee

To my underdeveloped taste buds the recipe in the recipe section is pretty much spot on. You just need to add at least 100 grams of dry hopping to get the full aroma. The key to the mouthfeel is just high carbonation in my opinion. I have it carbed to the point that it's quite hard to pour anything other than a glass of foam if the tap is not super cold.


----------



## q3rasta

Hi all. I live near the Stone and Wood brewery came across a empty 15lt cube of wyeast label says stone&wood 1056


----------



## Jrrj

Thanks q3rasta, this matches my experience.

Following Dan's suggestion from last summer, I recently did a split batch with wyeast 2265 and wyeast 1056. As you can imagine the beers are very different, and the Kolsch is nothing like SWPA.

Having said that, it could be that I fermented at about 18 degrees to suit the 1056, which might have been too warm for the kolsch.

My recipe was something that evolved from originally trying snow's recipe. Raw wheat with cereal mash instead of torriefied, 50/50 with pale malt instead of 60/40. Galaxy at 20 minutes and whirlpool, and I never got around to dry hopping so it was never going to be a clone irrespective of yeast.


----------



## sp0rk

Having chatted to an ex brewer, they use US-05


----------



## mattyg8

For some reason I cannot go back thru this thread to get the recipe recommended.

Any one able to help for 22L Biab?


----------



## sp0rk

Snow's recipe is the closest thing to what one of S&W's ex brewers relayed to me (and others on the Aussie Home Brewers FB group), 60/40 ale/wheat, galaxy to 25IBU, US05, LOTS late and dry hopped
Only alteration to Snow's recipe I'd make is to up it to 25 IBU

Hi guys,

just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.

Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Snow 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 % 
1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 % 
10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU 
5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 
12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU 
35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops - 
1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 % 
Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l 
Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color 


Mash Profile

My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Step 66.0 C 
10 min Mash Out 76.0 C 
Batch sparge 78C


----------



## mattyg8

Thanks for that, Can just substitute flowers for pellets? I still get bit confused converting hops schedule to suit no chill cube


----------



## BKBrews

I brewed this on the weekend with 60% gladfields American ale and 40% gladfields wheat, plus 40g acidulated. Galaxy pellets from yob at 15.2%. Used 6g at 5min and 31g at flameout for 30min hopstand. Total IBU = 22. Set aside 85g for a nice dry hop


----------



## sp0rk

mattyg8 said:


> Thanks for that, Can just substitute flowers for pellets? I still get bit confused converting hops schedule to suit no chill cube


Sure can
For no chill, move everything back 15-20ish minutes
I'd put the 20 min in at 5 (or even at flameout)
5 minute in in the middle of whirlpool
0 minute in the cube


----------



## mattyg8

sp0rk said:


> Sure can
> For no chill, move everything back 15-20ish minutes
> I'd put the 20 min in at 5 (or even at flameout)
> 5 minute in in the middle of whirlpool
> 0 minute in the cube


Cheers mate!

Just seen it calls for 10g hop mash? Never done that.


----------



## Matplat

and sodium metabisulphite in the mash???

I don't have quite enough galaxy to do this, but might get close with a Topaz top up....


----------



## amarks6

Jrrj said:


> Thanks Dan - I've been wondering about the yeast on this beer for months. My first clone attempt I just used US05 but, like you, I didn't feel like it was the right yeast. Because of other issues with that batch, I couldn't properly assess whether the yeast worked.
> 
> Another of your points that resonates with me is the sulfur - that is something I really enjoy about the commercial version, it just works so well for me in hot weather. I wasn't sure if it was yeast-driven or if they created it in the water.
> 
> I will definitely try your suggestion of Wyeast 2565 next time. The other thing I was planning to do and will eventually get around to is try to re-culture the bottle-yeast. I figure that way I can tell if the yeast gives me that flavour or if water-modification is needed too.


FWIW....(and yes, I know what the brewery says, but they must keep some secrets)....

I've been using Kolsch yeast on S & W pacific ale clone for a while now and I get much closer to the real thing than with US05. I ferment at about 22-23 degrees.

I add hops only at 20 minute in the boiler and at the end via a hoprocket to end up with wort at about 16 IBUs. Then I dry hop at about 2 gm/litre for 5 days - after 3 days of fermentation.

The other thing I've noticed very recently with S & W PA is an additional taste / aroma of guava (on top of the galaxy/passionfruit). Anybody else get this?

My guess (which I plan to try soon) is a little Mosaic in the dry hop mix.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Matplat said:


> and sodium metabisulphite in the mash???
> 
> I don't have quite enough galaxy to do this, but might get close with a Topaz top up....


I've heard that they supplement some of the galaxy with Nelson sauvin, so why not


----------



## mattyg8

mattyg8 said:


> Cheers mate!
> 
> Just seen it calls for 10g hop mash? Never done that.


Whats the go with hop mash?


----------



## BKBrews

I kegged my pacific ale clone on Friday morning and have had it on 30psi since then, ready for Christmas Day. I did a side by side comparison with the real thing tonight. I'm pretty sure I got a skunked bottle, so can't really comment on flavour, but the real thing was slightly lighter in colour and lighter on the nose. Mine is tasting great.

60% Gladfield American Ale
40% Gladfield Wheat

6g Galaxy 5min
31g Galaxy Flameout (30min whirlpool/hop stand)
85g dry hop (7 days after start of ferment and 4 days prior to cold crash)

US-05 (2 packs)

22 IBU, 4.7% (1.046 down to 1.010).


----------



## rude

mattyg8 said:


> Whats the go with hop mash?


Chuck the hops in the mash

Only done it once in a Jannets Brown ale it didnt hurt it 

Google it I think it gives a smooth bitterness others say a waste of time ???


----------



## Jrrj

What is the consensus on dry hopping (varieties and rates) for the current commercial version of this S&W PA?

I know early on the consensus was all Galaxy, but that seems to have changed more recently.

I’m planning to have another go for this summer, trying to improve on some of my past issues including: particularly that I couldn’t get the light colour, low final pH and a stable flavour all in the same batch.

I’m hopeful the solution to the colour issue is using pilsner instead of ale malt, and that the pH will be solved by adjusting water with phosphoric acid as well as the standard salts. I also assume they use a short boil.


----------



## Brewman_

Try This....


----------



## MHB

Brewman_ said:


> Try This....


Do try that its awesome - better than S&W.
Mark


----------



## Brewman_

Thanks Mark,

Was the first time I heard you seriously like one of my beers and I have known you a long time.

Here's a better image hopefully.


----------



## ABG

Thanks for sharing your recipes guys. I'm going to have a crack at a Pacific Ale this weekend with the beer going to my brother (it's his favourite drop and I owe him a favour or two).

@MHB strikes me as a genuine wealth of knowledge when it comes to brewing, so when he says a recipe is the duck's guts, I'll sit up and listen. 

@Brewman_ regarding your hops schedule - is the 26g aroma addition of Galaxy a hopstand addition on brew day, or a dry hop addition in the fermenter?


----------



## Outback

I'm drinking this now, the aroma addition is dry hop. I did one batch with Notto yeast and another with US-05, just to see the difference.


----------



## ABG

Outback said:


> I'm drinking this now, the aroma addition is dry hop. I did one batch with Notto yeast and another with US-05, just to see the difference.



Cheers mate. What was your preference with yeasts? More specifically, which one was closer to the S&W Pacific Ale?


----------



## Outback

Still on the Notto version, it is more of an English ale yeast but supposed to be pretty neutral. I have done other versions of S&W using US-05 and they have been great. I had some Notto and felt reckless.


----------



## Brewman_

ABG said:


> Thanks for sharing your recipes guys. I'm going to have a crack at a Pacific Ale this weekend with the beer going to my brother (it's his favourite drop and I owe him a favour or two).
> 
> @MHB strikes me as a genuine wealth of knowledge when it comes to brewing, so when he says a recipe is the duck's guts, I'll sit up and listen.
> 
> @Brewman_ regarding your hops schedule - is the 26g aroma addition of Galaxy a hopstand addition on brew day, or a dry hop addition in the fermenter?


The Aroma addition is a fermenter Dry Hop addition.

Hope you like it.

Cheers Steve


----------



## Brewman_

Oh on the yeast. I think the brewery use US05. That is what I always use and find it works perfectly for this beer


----------



## sp0rk

Brewery definitely use US05
An ex S&W brewer commented a recipe I posted on Facebook (based off Snow's recipe) and confirmed 22 IBU, 4.4% ABV & fermented with US05


----------



## Liam_snorkel

how long ago was that? Recently had a former brewer from S&W say it's down to 16 IBU now.


----------



## sp0rk

I'd say he hasn't been there for at least 5 or so years, maybe longer


----------



## Liam_snorkel

ah ok this guy only recently left, but either way, I'd personally prefer the 22 IBU version!


----------



## ABG

Brewman_ said:


> The Aroma addition is a fermenter Dry Hop addition.
> 
> Hope you like it.
> 
> Cheers Steve



I brewed this a few weeks ago and although it's very clean and drinkable, my brew is definitely not as good as a S&W PA. It's a bit on the thin side, not quite as hoppy and lacks the crispness of the original. 

I hit an OG of 1.053 and an FG of 1.008, giving an approximate ABV of 5.9%. I pitched with US05 at 20°, dropped it within 8 hours to 18° for the next 3 days, then ramped up by a degree every day until it hit 22°.

Earlier in the thread @MHB said that having a high efficiency will hurt smaller beers, leaving them thin. Exactly what's happened with mine.

How can I make this a fuller bodied beer and how can I improve the crispness? Any help would be genuinely appreciated.


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ i think you need to target a much lower starting gravity to achieve the abv for the beer at 4.4% that will bring the body back

To get the beer more crisp beer, you will need to work on the pH of the beer for mash and final beer.


----------



## ABG

Dan Pratt said:


> ^ ^ i think you need to target a much lower starting gravity to achieve the abv for the beer at 4.4% that will bring the body back
> 
> To get the beer more crisp beer, you will need to work on the pH of the beer for mash and final beer.



Cheers Dan. Yep, I'm guessing I'm hitting higher efficiencies than assumed by the recipe. Will dial the grain bill back accordingly.

My PH meter was on the fritz, but has been replaced. Brewfather says my PH should have been 5.3, but I'll check it carefully next time around.


----------



## Brewman_

ABG said:


> I brewed this a few weeks ago and although it's very clean and drinkable, my brew is definitely not as good as a S&W PA. It's a bit on the thin side, not quite as hoppy and lacks the crispness of the original.
> 
> I hit an OG of 1.053 and an FG of 1.008, giving an approximate ABV of 5.9%. I pitched with US05 at 20°, dropped it within 8 hours to 18° for the next 3 days, then ramped up by a degree every day until it hit 22°.
> 
> Earlier in the thread @MHB said that having a high efficiency will hurt smaller beers, leaving them thin. Exactly what's happened with mine.
> 
> How can I make this a fuller bodied beer and how can I improve the crispness? Any help would be genuinely appreciated.


Hi AGB,
I am not sure of who you are, but I assume you got the recipe ingredients as a "recipe" from me?

Couple of questions.
Did you boil 90 minutes? This recipe definitely needs it with the Weyermann Premium Pils.
Looks like your efficiency was a bit higher than planned.

A coupe of your comments are raising more questions. The thinness of the beer I would expect to lead to a crisper beer, but you say it is not. Makes me wonder whether there is something else like diacetyl that's detracting from the crispness and mouthfeel of the beer.

Anything above starting gravity 1050 I would use two yeasts and I always oxygenate the wort. Something to consider, or maybe you did this anyway?

To increase the body you could increase the mash temp by a degree or two.

Adjusting your efficiency number up, will decrease the grist and that's not going to increase the body of the beer. You should adjust your efficiency number to bring the SG back into line with planned.

On the aroma, you could increase the amount of dry hops and probably the 10 minute addition as well. The additions on the recipe are what I considered close to the commercial example, but I know people often increase those two additions.

Feel free to call me you'd like to discuss more.

Cheers Steve


----------



## ABG

Brewman_ said:


> Hi AGB,
> I am not sure of who you are, but I assume you got the recipe ingredients as a "recipe" from me? Yep, I saw it posted further up in this thread. I mentioned I was going to use it a few weeks ago.
> 
> Couple of questions.
> Did you boil 90 minutes? This recipe definitely needs it with the Weyermann Premium Pils. Yep, I always do with Weyerman Pils
> Looks like your efficiency was a bit higher than planned. Yep, I hit mash efficiency of 88% and a brewhouse efficiency of 73.7%
> 
> A coupe of your comments are raising more questions. The thinness of the beer I would expect to lead to a crisper beer, but you say it is not. Makes me wonder whether there is something else like diacetyl that's detracting from the crispness and mouthfeel of the beer. There's no super obvious diacetyl taste. I wonder whether my pH was off as my pH meter was out of action.
> 
> Anything above starting gravity 1050 I would use two yeasts and I always oxygenate the wort. Something to consider, or maybe you did this anyway? I used 2 packets of US05. I don't have an oxygen kit - maybe further down the line...
> 
> To increase the body you could increase the mash temp by a degree or two. I was thinking that may be the way to go - thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adjusting your efficiency number up, will decrease the grist and that's not going to increase the body of the beer. You should adjust your efficiency number to bring the SG back into line with planned. Yep, I've pulled the numbers back a bit and will re-brew
> 
> On the aroma, you could increase the amount of dry hops and probably the 10 minute addition as well. The additions on the recipe are what I considered close to the commercial example, but I know people often increase those two additions. Will do
> 
> Feel free to call me you'd like to discuss more. Thanks for your help Steve. I'll give you a holler next time I'm up in Newcastle to say g'day and pick up a few odds'n'ends.
> 
> Cheers Steve


Cheers, Andrew


----------



## Northside Novice

All the answers are in this post from years ago, (06)
why reinvent the wheel?

Stone and wood draught ale is and rightfully so is a homebrewers staple brew, not unlike two minute noodles!


----------



## ABG

Northside Novice said:


> All the answers are in this post from years ago, (06)
> why reinvent the wheel?
> 
> Stone and wood draught ale is and rightfully so is a homebrewers staple brew, not unlike two minute noodles!


I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. I read the thread in its entirety. On page 9 @Brewman_ posted a recipe. @MHB who has provided a great deal of advice to me and others here said the recipe was "awesome - better than S&W" so I thought I'd give it a crack. His is an opinion I respect. 

My attempt didn't turn out as good as a S&W, not because of any recipe shortcomings, but because of my shortcomings. I'm new to AG brewing, so I asked for some help.

I apologise that I'm not capable of brewing the equivalent of 2 minute noodles.


----------



## Daniel Walker

Brewman, thanks for sharing your recipe. I brewed it about a month ago and it is a very nice beer. You mentioned wey premium pils needs a 90 min boil, how come? (I am not questioning your advice just interested in the process)


----------



## citizensnips

Daniel Walker said:


> Brewman, thanks for sharing your recipe. I brewed it about a month ago and it is a very nice beer. You mentioned wey premium pils needs a 90 min boil, how come? (I am not questioning your advice just interested in the process)



Likely due to avoid any Dimethyl Sulfide or DMS in the finished beer.

Modern malts on the whole however contain very little DMS precursor these days. I've done plenty of 40 minute boils and have never run into issues with DMS. This however is just my opinion, plenty of others still believe otherwise.


----------



## Brewman_

citizensnips said:


> Likely due to avoid any Dimethyl Sulfide or DMS in the finished beer.
> 
> Modern malts on the whole however contain very little DMS precursor these days. I've done plenty of 40 minute boils and have never run into issues with DMS. This however is just my opinion, plenty of others still believe otherwise.



Pretty much spot on. So let me explain how that came about.

When I made the recipe with Barrett Burston Ale Malt there was no DMS at a 60 minute boil. There were some things I didn't like about the original recipe however. But they are personal taste kind of things. The beer was essentially flawless, but not to my taste.

The original recipe is there still unchanged if you want to look at that. It's awesome.

I decided to make some tweaks to the recipe and that's where the changes in base malt came from. And a little change in the hop profile.
When I started using the Weyermann premium pilsner in the recipe at a 60 minute boil I was getting some off flavours and aromas that I put down to DMS. While I was happy with everything else about the beer I was not happy with the finished flavour and aroma.

So I tried a 90 min boil to remove the off flavours. Worked a treat. 

But that could vary depending on your boil off rates and your system.

Cheers Steve


----------



## Brewman_

citizensnips said:


> Likely due to avoid any Dimethyl Sulfide or DMS in the finished beer.
> 
> Modern malts on the whole however contain very little DMS precursor these days. I've done plenty of 40 minute boils and have never run into issues with DMS. This however is just my opinion, plenty of others still believe otherwise.


Just interested what base malts that you use? Because they are not all the same


----------



## Outback

I have been led to believe Pilsner malts are somewhat less modified than most other base malts, thus requiring the 90 min boil to drive off DMS precursors. 
Is this correct, or do I have the wrong end of a one ended stick?


----------



## Daniel Walker

Thanks for the replies


----------



## sulgar

Outback said:


> I have been led to believe Pilsner malts are somewhat less modified than most other base malts, thus requiring the 90 min boil to drive off DMS precursors.
> Is this correct, or do I have the wrong end of a one ended stick?



I had the same experience here, brewing all grain with a Czech Pils malt and 60 min boil. Result was tons of DMS, almost undrinkable. Multiple D-rests did nothing to change the flavor. 90 min boil on the next brew solved that.

On a side note, with German LME, have not had that issue with 60 min boils.


----------



## MHB

ABG said:


> I brewed this a few weeks ago and although it's very clean and drinkable, my brew is definitely not as good as a S&W PA. It's a bit on the thin side, not quite as hoppy and lacks the crispness of the original.
> 
> I hit an OG of 1.053 and an FG of 1.008, giving an approximate ABV of 5.9%. I pitched with US05 at 20°, dropped it within 8 hours to 18° for the next 3 days, then ramped up by a degree every day until it hit 22°.
> 
> Earlier in the thread @MHB said that having a high efficiency will hurt smaller beers, leaving them thin. Exactly what's happened with mine.
> 
> How can I make this a fuller bodied beer and how can I improve the crispness? Any help would be genuinely appreciated.


A couple of things that need looking at -
First your apparent attenuation, (53-8/53=85%), that's very high for US-05 around 75-78% is pretty common for US-05, that alone would make the beer pretty thin.
The main cause are, infection with a much more aggressive yeast (leave that one with you) and Mash Temperature.
I'd be taking a long hard look at how you measure your mash temperature, I suspect what you are doing isn't working quite right.

I think my point about high efficiencies may have been a little unclear and caused some misunderstanding. High efficiency isn't bad - until it reaches the point where you start over-extracting the grain and getting undesirable flavours (Tannin astringency etc). If that starts happening its time to wind back your sparge.

Have to say I'm surprised that a beer with nearly 20% unmalted adjunct would attenuate 85%, are we talking about the Brewman recipe as above, or is it some sort of personalised version?
Your fermentation temperatures look needlessly complex, this is an Ale so a Diacetyl rest shouldn't be necessary (given a sensible yeast pitch rate and a 90 minute boil), I'm not sure how this will affect the beer but it looks like extra work for no apparent gain....

The Brewman recipe is excellent, I have tasted several version over the years as Steve tweaked it, and its at the point where I cant see any real changes being beneficial. Maybe just taking out the first hop addition of Magnum and using Galaxy (I hear the commercial is all Galaxy). Partly my fault, Steve started with one of my recipes and built on if from there, when I put it together Galaxy was hard to get so it was worth using something else where it didn't affect the flavour.
Mark


----------



## ABG

MHB said:


> A couple of things that need looking at -
> First your apparent attenuation, (53-8/53=85%), that's very high for US-05 around 75-78% is pretty common for US-05, that alone would make the beer pretty thin.
> The main cause are, infection with a much more aggressive yeast (leave that one with you) and Mash Temperature.
> I'd be taking a long hard look at how you measure your mash temperature, I suspect what you are doing isn't working quite right.
> 
> I think my point about high efficiencies may have been a little unclear and caused some misunderstanding. High efficiency isn't bad - until it reaches the point where you start over-extracting the grain and getting undesirable flavours (Tannin astringency etc). If that starts happening its time to wind back your sparge.
> 
> Have to say I'm surprised that a beer with nearly 20% unmalted adjunct would attenuate 85%, are we talking about the Brewman recipe as above, or is it some sort of personalised version?
> Your fermentation temperatures look needlessly complex, this is an Ale so a Diacetyl rest shouldn't be necessary (given a sensible yeast pitch rate and a 90 minute boil), I'm not sure how this will affect the beer but it looks like extra work for no apparent gain....
> 
> The Brewman recipe is excellent, I have tasted several version over the years as Steve tweaked it, and its at the point where I cant see any real changes being beneficial. Maybe just taking out the first hop addition of Magnum and using Galaxy (I hear the commercial is all Galaxy). Partly my fault, Steve started with one of my recipes and built on if from there, when I put it together Galaxy was hard to get so it was worth using something else where it didn't affect the flavour.
> Mark



Thanks for the clarification and suggestions Mark. 

I used Brewman's recipe exactly, but ended up a bit too high on OG. I put it down to having a higher efficiency than Steve's recipe is assuming, but could be completely wrong.

Re temperature, I have the probe in the R3 (down at the bottom) and a calibrated (in an ice slurry) probe I insert at the top of the grain bed. At the start there is normally a 5 degree variation in temperature (the bottom being hotter of course) but after 10 minutes of running the pump, the temperaratures align pretty much spot on. I normally throw the grain into water that is about 4 degrees hotter than the mash in temp I'm looking for. The pre mash water temp is consistent from top to bottom when I switch the pump on. I leave the small element on only when I mash and generally set the temp a few degrees higher on the R3 than I want to mash at (I'm assuming that the majority of the mash will be a few degrees cooler for the first few minutes) and drop it down after about 5-10 minutes to the mark I'm looking for. Any feedback on my method is welcome.

I brewed a second batch of this a couple of weeks after my first crack at it and tweaked the grain bill down a bit to allow for higher efficiencies. I hit an OG of 1.047 and a FG of 1.005 with the second batch and it's much better than my first. The first had a dryness on the front of the tongue, yet somehow lacked the crispness I get with the S&W Pacific Ale. My second batch doesn't have the issue with dryness, but is just a smidge off being as crisp as the S&W. It's only had 10 days to condition in the keg and I normally find my beers improve after a few weeks. It's also worth noting I brewed both batches without a pH meter. I will brew it again at some point now my replacement meter has arrived. The other difference was I threw in 2 packs of US05 on the first batch because the OG was a bit on the high side for one pack in my experience. Maybe I overpitched a bit? 

The fermentation schedule is one I've used for years with ales and it's always worked a treat. I take your point it may be a bit over the top and to some extent unnecessary, but I go down to my garage pretty much every day regardless, so it's no chore. I've followed the motto of "if it aint broke, don't fix it". It works, so I keep following the same old routine.


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## MHB

I'm sure you understand what your setup is doing, without seeing it I'm not all that clear on exactly how it works.
But for about the 100th time, do you have a decent lab thermometer that you can use as a reference?
Spend around $20 and get one if you haven't, stick it in and measure the mash temperature then yo know what is actually going on - anything else is a guess!
Note that the second batch referenced had an OG of 1.047 and a FG of 1.005 so you apparent attenuation was over 89%.
Same thoughts as the first brew, something isn't working right and needs fixing - it isn't the recipe.

If you were using BrewBuilder to order your malt, do a brew, record exactly what you got (volumes and gravity), set the volumes and adjust the efficiency until the OG matches what you got, go into the settings and record the new values.
Next order these will be the default settings and you should get exactly what you wanted. Worth looking at Steve's freight options to, I think you could get four 5kg recipes delivered for something like $17

Might be a good idea to familiarise yourself with the equation that we use to calculate strike water temperature, if you know your mass of malt and volume of liquor get the strike temperature right and you will hit your target every time.

On the amount of yeast, not knowing your batch size makes having an opinion difficult. For commercial brewing Safe recommends 50-80g/hL (100L) so if you had 25L in the fermenter that's 12.5-20g. Unfortunately 1 packet is under the low end and two is over the high end. Note that the recommendation is for a well aerated (10ppm O2) wort. Using 1 packet with O2 would really be the best option. Yes it makes a big difference to the finished flavour.
Yeast in a well aerated wort reproduces, while its doing that it's "eating" a bunch of stuff in the wort like lipids, sterols, fatty acids, proteins and peptides. One of the big differences between home made and commercial brews has for a long time been that Clean, Crisp part of the flavour, I think a lot of this comes from better yeast management and in no small part, wort aeration.
Mark


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## garage_life

I've made this with my pretty basic BIAB keg kettle setup, as per recipe sans Pac jade for bittering IBU and moved to 30min(?) and a bit of Rikawa in the dry hop. 
Diluted accidentally due to my own misinterpretation but fermented out around high 70s eff. ended up around 4%abv, chilled, gravity fed to fermenter, shake and bake, immediate pitch.
S05 1 pack rehydrated in DME wort for 6 hrs, cold crashed 3 days 2 dungarees science, kegged pretty green. But it was very clean and "crisp", very similar to the original, malt and the galaxy apart from a bit more mouth feel and obviously a bit different hop profile, apparently 25ibu, seems right, I feel an improvement, definitely on brand, all reports from tastera are improved over the OG s&W.
That efficiency seems too high IMHO. 
I'm using 3 different thermometers that I've tested and are good enough for the girls I go out with. Something's amiss.


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## Flavourybitterness

Hey crew,

Am on day 8 of fermentation and was about to put in some dry hops. I tasted it before putting in the hops and boy did it taste weird.

It’s a strong off flavour of some sort. I wish I had the experience to describe it or say what it was. My partner says it smells like car. I disagree but more noses are better than one. 

I decided to withhold putting the hops out. But left the beer in the fermenter. 

Fermentation was at 18 degrees and just turned it up to 20.

Any ideas?
Thanks in advance


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## Wanderdog

Snow said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.
> 
> Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
> The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Brewer: Snow
> Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
> 1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
> 12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
> 40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
> 1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Beer Profile
> 
> Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
> Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
> Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
> Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
> Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color
> 
> 
> Mash Profile
> 
> My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 60 min Step 66.0 C
> 10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
> Batch sparge 78C
> 
> 
> Cheers - Snow.


Very helpful thanks


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## Flavourybitterness

Had another go at this, 
The flavour was there- however milder. I think it was the yeast flavour. Once I cold crashed it was gone. Tasting amazing.


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