# Single Vessel Electric Brew Rig Build



## bignath

Thought i'd share my new single vessel electric BIAB recirculating mash rig build. 

Finally got it finished last night. I brewed on it last weekend, but was waiting for another addition before i considered it completed to what i was trying to build. It's a 50lt (actually holds 56.5lt's), Stainless pot, with stainless colander element guard. The wort is drained through the bottom of the pot underneath the colander, and a little brown pump returns it via hose, out through my hugely expensive "stand", up the side and back in through the lid. It then flows through the grain bed, hopefully acting in a similar way to a mash stirrer (or close to it anyway). This wort return is 1-2inches away from the copper thermowell housing that is obviously measuring the temp of the mash. Controlled by a STC1000 with detachable probe for easy use and packdown.


So here it is, the "EZBrew V1.0"

Finished Rig






Temp Probe Installation and Wort Return:






Ghetto Control Box: Dont laugh, it's a good solution...






More Ghetto inspiration. Thermowell, and Wort Return pipe.






Interior shot of elements ($9 kmart kettle ones, 2200W each) and drain valve for the pump.






This strainer insert from a crabcooker will be lined with voille. I reckon it will be a good solution, as it will allow easy lifting with a pulley, and it will also allow me to sparge into as it's hanging above the wort. Found a local fishing shop that was prepared to sell it to me without the pot it comes with. Champion!






Dial thermo measuring outgoing temp (drains from underneath a stainless colander) before hitting the pump and then returning through the lid.






I've done 1 brew which i deliberately took my time to document all stages and readings, and it took me almost 5 hours to knock out two cubes. I didn't start ramping to boil until i collected all my runnings after hoisting. Burnt myself several times getting used to the "logistics" of this new system. (next time i'll put the bag in at the start rather than trying to get it sorted after i hit strike temp etc...all of that sort of stuff that only happens the first time you brew on a new setup...)

After a wet run, i'm sure i can do a double batch in less than 3.5hrs.
After last weeks brewday, when i crunched all the figures, it looks like i've landed on 82% efficiency first go. Pretty happy with that.

At the moment, the only upgrades i have planned will be to change the return hose to silicone, and maybe get a brass or stainless inline tap for it too (to replace the plastic "gardena" style inline tap).

Apart from that, i'm happy with how it's turned out. 

Anyway, feel free to comment or offer suggestions!

Cheers,

BN


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## Yob

Very tidy mate..

Does the return pipe have holes in it to return 'throughout' the mash or does it just run out the bottom? How deep does it sit?

are you going to insulate the return hose? I used some of this stuff on a recent build.




compact and tidy, love it.

Yob


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## mxd

looks great , on your next brew can ya take a vid of her in action.


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## bignath

Cheers yob,

at the moment, the return pipe just delivers the wort to the bottom of the mash. I had given a lot of thought to drilling some holes in it to disperse, and i may still do it, but i was worried that the little pump's pressure may not disperse it well enough to bother with it sitting in the mash, so i just kept it as a tube, thinking it will stir up the bottom and then drain through the bag, through the colander, into the pump and that that would be okay.

I'll see how it goes for the next few brews though as i may still open it up. I had also thought of using a spray ball at the end of the return hose too, or a couple of copper t fittings to spread it all out....options...

Hose isn't insulated at the moment. Once again, i might look into this too. That's a good idea. Hadn't thought about that one!

EDIT: almost forgot, the wort return sits about an inch from the bottom of the insert. Measured it to do that deliberately so it would stir the mash up well, hopefully extracting most bang for my buck.

Cheers,

Nath


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## bignath

mxd said:


> looks great , on your next brew can ya take a vid of her in action.



Yep, will do!


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## Dan Pratt

A video of this puppy in action would be great to view. Well done on the build, well done!


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## hughman666

Looks the goods mate! Yet another single vessel accomplishment on AHB


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## MaltyHops

Big Nath said:


> ...
> Anyway, feel free to comment or offer suggestions!
> Cheers,
> BN


Well done - great result.

I think if you mount the wort return and temp probe on the side and
near top of the pot, you could then make up some kind of rack for the
strainer to sit on a-la braumeister (brau what? )

Be interesting how quick the copper return tube and thermowell might
corrode due to galvanic reaction with with the steel pot.


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## bignath

MaltyHops said:


> Well done - great result.
> 
> I think if you mount the wort return and temp probe on the side and
> near top of the pot, you could then make up some kind of rack for the
> strainer to sit on a-la braumeister (brau what? )
> 
> Be interesting how quick the copper return tube and thermowell might
> corrode due to galvanic reaction with with the steel pot.



I have a pulley system under a patio. Job's done!










Hmmmm, galvanic reaction. Haven't heard of it. Is it a big problem? 

I have some acrylic tube i was going to use for both the return and the thermowell, but went with the copper for heat transfer. I could definitely use acrylic for the return, as it's just a matter of swapping over the tubes. They both fit snug into the compression fitting, and i already have acrylic tubes cut to length leftover from a sightglass build...

Not sure about how to do the thermowell (outside of just going and buying one of course...)


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## keifer33

How did u go sealing the elements? Was it was simple as using the silicon seal and reassembling through the whole in the pot. only asking as i have some of those elements im going to use albeit in a smaller vessel but for the same purpose.


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## bignath

keifer33 said:


> How did u go sealing the elements? Was it was simple as using the silicon seal and reassembling through the whole in the pot. only asking as i have some of those elements im going to use albeit in a smaller vessel but for the same purpose.



g'day keifer,

i drilled out the holes to get a rough guide using a carbide tip drill bit around 12/14mm in diameter. I drilled several holes to enlargen to create a diameter close (erring on the too small side), and then finished it off with a dremel tool with a sanding drum bit.

Literally, it's just the element and the silicone seal that it comes with in the kettle itself. No sealant, just a very neat and snug hole to allow the 3 prongs from the element screw in's to fit, and the silicone seal. no leaks so far.


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## MaltyHops

Big Nath said:


> ...
> Hmmmm, galvanic reaction. Haven't heard of it. Is it a big problem?
> ...


Probably not big enough to worry about. When different metals are in
electrical contact and surrounded by an electrolyte (as wort would be),
one of the metals will corrode more than the others.

Actually, looking at the _WIKI_ ranking of metals, the (what looks like)
aluminium strainer might corrode preferentially than the pot or copper.


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## bignath

cool, thanks for that.

but, are the metals in my system in "electrical contact" with each other? Not sure exactly what constitutes electrical contact. Yeah it's an electric rig, but how does the power source effect the corrosion of the metals when the electrical current isn't contacting the wort or the metals?

I would have thought that if electrical contact was a problem in our breweries, that corrosion would be the least of our problems wouldn't it?

genuinelynotsurewhati'mtalkingaboutBigNath.....


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## MaltyHops

Big Nath said:


> but, are the metals in my system in "electrical contact" with each other?
> ...


Not talking about it being an electric system. Unless you've
isolated the copper somehow with insulative washers or
something, the metals would be touching and in contact
- and the strainer is probaby also in contact with the pot?
The wort then provides a closed electrical path for galvanic
reaction to occur (chapter potato battery).


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## Feldon

Big Nath said:


> cool, thanks for that.
> 
> but, are the metals in my system in "electrical contact" with each other? Not sure exactly what constitutes electrical contact. Yeah it's an electric rig, but how does the power source effect the corrosion of the metals when the electrical current isn't contacting the wort or the metals?
> 
> I would have thought that if electrical contact was a problem in our breweries, that corrosion would be the least of our problems wouldn't it?
> 
> genuinelynotsurewhati'mtalkingaboutBigNath.....




Think of it like a car battery. The battery acid solution (wort) conducts metal ions to and from the battery plates (metal brewing objects). No need to supply electricity - nature does it for you.


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## bignath

hmmm, right i understand it now.

Is this process typically a rapid one or one that may take years to become a problem?

The copper i can replace easy enough (buy a thermowell and do it properly, replace wort return with acrylic tube which i have on hand). But replacing the aluminium basket with a SS one will most likely be expensive.

Certainly, where i live, i won't be able to find one. It'll have to be an online purchase that may involve buying the pot and basket, only to have to do something with a big pot i don't need.


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## Aces High

Nice use of the milk crate Nath.

I've gone down a similar route, although mine is gas fired. Fine control is via an STC and Herms unit, and I use gas to bring it up to temp quickly. Its all a bit messy at the moment as I have just been doing inital trials, but its awsome for holding mash tems spot on. The copper return actually sits under the liquid level when doing a run and seems to do a good job of recirculating.






I've had a copper pickup pushed into a stainless output on my pot for about the last 30 brews, i havent noticed any corrosion or galvanic problems, but i pull it out and the end of each brew and its always very shiny


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## Feldon

Dunno for sure, but I expect the short time you have wort in the pot, and brew only every week or so, and that you are not using a strongly acidic solution, you need not worry too much.

Some (aluminium?) boats have sacrificial copper plates attached to their hulls. The idea is that the copper gets eaten away instead of the the aluminium.

Zinc plating is a sacrificial coating that protects the steel underneath through galvanic reaction. As long as there is some zinc present the oxygen in air and water will attack it and leave the steel alone. And I think a zincalume roof would last about 50 years.


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## adniels3n

I've recently abandoned my 3V project to concentrate on a BIAB keggle setup. My question is why do the Braucloners want a grain bed, where this setup appears to disturb the bed, creating a mash stirring system? Is a grainbed purely to acheive wort clarity into the boil kettle?


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## MaltyHops

Big Nath said:


> Is this process typically a rapid one or one that may take years to become
> a problem?
> The copper i can replace easy enough (buy a thermowell and do it properly,
> replace wort return with acrylic tube which i have on hand). But replacing the
> aluminium basket with a SS one will most likely be expensive.


Wait and see I guess. I'm thinking the copper might not corrode (much)
since I think all 3 metals are in contact to each other - if the alu strainer
corrodes, there'll just be more holes in it :lol:


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## bignath

Muddzy said:


> My question is why do the Braucloners want a grain bed, where this setup appears to disturb the bed, creating a mash stirring system?



Cant speak for the others that have built rigs in a similar style to mine, but for me i'm not trying to get a grain bed. Quite the opposite actually.

I remember reading about some (not all) biab'ers experiencing loss of efficiency. I thought, well i need to keep the temp of the mash relatively stable, and if i stir it regularly i should be able to increase efficiency too. So if i put a return tube for the wort that releases it down into the grain, the temp should eventually remain stable (once the rig equalises) and this action should also resemble some kind of stirring benefit too.

I am coming from a 3v brewery, so i'm familiar with grain beds for clarity and lautering etc...I am more than happy to lose some clarity, to gain simplicity on my brewday provided my efficiency is not too different.

Typical efficiency for me into the fermenter on my 3V is 83%. Used the single vessel last brewday for the first time (without the aluminium basket though) and landed on 82%. Drained and squeezed the bag, and poured maybe 4-6litres over the top of the bag hoping to extract some trapped sugars. This time though using the basket, i'll be able to open the bag with the basket hanging off my pulley, and pour the sparge water straight through the grain. I'm expecting a higher efficiency next brewday (this weekend). Not necessarily a big increase, but i'm sure i'll hit 85%, in which case i'll be stoked.

Based on a wet run using just water, i'll be able to knock out two cubes in 3.5hrs or less, and bugger all to clean up and pack away.


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## adniels3n

My little brown pump may get reused then. Certainly sounds good, Having temp control & stirring in one. Bugger, I thought biab would quell my need to mess around with my brew gear!


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## MaltyHops

Big Nath said:


> ...
> So if i put a return tube for the wort that releases it down into the grain, the temp should eventually remain stable (once the rig equalises)
> ...


How far down does the return tube reach? I'm wondering whether you
might get channelling if it reaches quite far down. 

Probably not an issue w.r.t. grain rinsing since it's a single vessel biab design
but I'm thinking if you do have a narrow channel flow down to the bottom,
the temperature spread might not be as good as it could be - ie. the temp
in/near the channel might be what you want it but areas further away
(eg. near the strainer walls) might be at a lower temp.

Could just make sure the return flows into a wort layer above the grain.


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## bignath

MaltyHops said:


> How far down does the return tube reach? I'm wondering whether you
> might get channelling if it reaches quite far down.
> 
> Probably not an issue w.r.t. grain rinsing since it's a single vessel biab design
> but I'm thinking if you do have a narrow channel flow down to the bottom,
> the temperature spread might not be as good as it could be - ie. the temp
> in/near the channel might be what you want it but areas further away
> (eg. near the strainer walls) might be at a lower temp.
> 
> Could just make sure the return flows into a wort layer above the grain.



Yeah i've given that some thought too, and think it may be a valid point.

Current setup means that the tube sits "right down" in the mash. Probably stops 1inch away from the bottom of the basket.
But then again, being BIAB, my grain to liquor ratio is probably close to 8lt/kg. In a mash this loose, is channeling possible?
What i actually intend to do is copy the copper coil that was posted in this thread several posts back, that is in the shape of a spiral. Drill some small (or large?) holes in it after its shaped spiralling south down into the mash. That should enable better redistribution of wort, and therefore better stirring action as well as better (more accurate) temp control. With a bit of luck i might knock that up this weekend actually.


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## Yob

Nath, Id bung a cap over the end of it and drill the holes in.. no too many though to start.. 

If you have a spare bit of copper to experiment on I think you will find that the little brown pump will handle it well...

You could get almost a vertical spiral up the length of your pipe couldnt ya? That'd look sick :icon_drunk: 

Yob


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## bignath

iamozziyob said:


> Nath, Id bung a cap over the end of it and drill the holes in.. no too many though to start..
> 
> If you have a spare bit of copper to experiment on I think you will find that the little brown pump will handle it well...
> 
> You could get almost a vertical spiral up the length of your pipe couldnt ya? That'd look sick :icon_drunk:
> 
> Yob



thanks yob, yeah i'd thought about doing that too. I might try that first and then if i think the coil would work better i'll give it a go then. I suppose nothing lost either way, as by using compression fittings i can just swap them over whenever i feel like it.

I'll just crimp the end of the tube shut in my vice and use my dremel to drill out some holes. Or a small drill bit.

cheers,

nath


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## bignath

as per yob's suggestion, i've drilled out some small holes in the wort return. Works heaps better now at distributing the wort and hopefully the heat, more evenly throughout the suspended mash in voile in basket.

Gonna brew on her this weekend, doing a simple, single batch Citra Ale - yummo!

Piccie:
New and Improved Wort Return:


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## Rowy

Just finished the thread Nath. Great setup mate well done. It's got me thinking. I'd be interested in seeing that video as well.


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## bignath

i have a digital camcorder so i can take a vid of it, but how do it post it here?


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## brad81

Big Nath said:


> i have a digital camcorder so i can take a vid of it, but how do it post it here?



Upload it to you tube and just post the link


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## bignath

do you need to set up an account for youtube to be able to do this?

probably sounds like a dumb question but i've never uploaded a video before....


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## Rob S

If you have Facebook you can log in to YouTube with that. I think you can log in with a Google account too (if you have gmail).

If not then make an account.


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## BlackRat

No videos yet?

Im very interested to see how this went.

BlackRat.


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## bignath

sorry dude, (and for all others that have shown interest). I wasn't able to brew on the weekend just gone.....wife was crook and i turned into babysitter for our two little tackers. Normally not a problem, but i want to have no distractions for the next time i use this rig so i can document everything properly. Hard to do when you're chasing two "brewery assistants" around the house.

Will definitely be brewing this weekend (maybe friday night) so i'll hopefully have something up by this time next week.

Cheers,

Nathan

EDIT: Gonna christen the new rig with a Galaxy Ale - 1050 OG, ale malt, carapils, some crystal for a little colour, and probably way too much Galaxy......


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## black_labb

Very nice rig

I'm seeing more and more of these builds appear lately, and I think there are going to be more and more appearing, they just seem to make sense, kind of like a blinged up BIAB. 

I'm thinking I'll be doing one of these soon.


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## lukasfab

this setup looks great

would it be a pain to do a list of the items required and cost

this looks to be exactly what I need to get brewing outside

how long does it take to get to strike temp and then to boil with those elements (depending on how much water)

great job


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## mikec

Nath that is freaking awesome.

You should sell them. I'd buy one.

If it were me I'd put some sort of cover or protection over the power board, I always manage to spill something somewhere.


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## Yob

Fecking Sexy BN... That shits gunna rock :wub:

ed: missed that update till just now :beerbang:


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## bignath

lukasfab said:


> this setup looks great
> 
> would it be a pain to do a list of the items required and cost
> 
> this looks to be exactly what I need to get brewing outside
> 
> how long does it take to get to strike temp and then to boil with those elements (depending on how much water)
> 
> great job



@mikec - thanks mate, it's taken me a lot of thought as to how i wanted my single vessel to perform and initial testing and one batch it seems to be a good system. Not too dissimilar to a braumeister, but with enough change to be able to implement my own thoughts about how to extract those lovely sugars from my grains...
I've also thought about covering the "ghetto control board"(trademark  ) with something, otherwise i may not live too long....In keeping with the ghetto tradition, i may just use a couple of right angle brackets with some more timber over the top as a roof.

@lukasfab - here's a basic run down of my parts list. Keep in mind, i've come from a 3V rig, and therefore had a lot of the parts already.

50lt (actually holds 56.5Lt's) Primus Stainless Pot - Camping World $109
Aluminium Crab Cooker Insert - $55. 
(to support the bag, easier to pull with a pulley setup, and having the bag "open" in the basket when it's hanging means a quick sparge through the grains is way too easy...) This was from a local fishing shop who was prepared to sell it to me out of an aluminium crab cooker set.
Black Milk Crate - ummmmm,,,,,,,,you know the story.....
Ball Valves x 2 - One for drainage to wort return, the other for filling point, and draining to cubes. $30 for both???
Assorted brass compression fittings from bunnings (right angle x 2) for the lid fittings - thermowell, and wort return.
1 x brass t piece for the thermometer install underneath (less than $10)
1 x little brown pump - ebay or a better option is Gryphon Brewing when he gets them back in stock, which is imminent. $35approx.
2 x kmart kettle elements. (gut kettle, remove element, element seal, and plastic switch assembly) $18 total.
1 x stainless steel colander stolen from Mrs BigNath's kitchen. Not sure she knows about this part yet..... but you can buy them for less than $10 at kmart.
1 x stc1000 controller - ebay $25approx. delivered to your door.
1 x dial thermometer. (not necessary at all, i just thought i'd put it in to measure any discrepancy between the flow out of the bottom of the pot and the mash temp which is controlled by the stc probe in the thermowell.
Assorted brass fittings, some have been cut in half to join the thermo, pump etc system to the bottom ball valve. Was a bit tricky. Not sure of exactly the parts i used, as i had most of them lying around from previous "brewery renovation ideas" years ago... Wouldn't amount to much $$$
1 x length of hose (im about to upgrade to silicone) to get from back of the pump to the wort return port in the lid. Maybe $10, but silicone will most likely cost me closer to $20-30 - i need about 1.5meters.
1 x inline tap in the end of the wort return. This is so you can shut off flow temporarily with the pump still going to allow disconnection from the lid, and put in the laundry sink close to where i brew to drain hoses. Otherwise, even with the pump turned off, without an inline tap, fluid in the line can go everywhere once it gets removed from the lid, which is not good when it's so close to electricals.
2 x IEC power cords for the elements installed in the bottom of pot.
1 x pulley system put together from bit's of crap lying around. Maybe $20 worth of parts from bunnings.

Other assorted bits and pieces that i had lying around (brass fittings, flange nuts, rubber/silicone seals etc...)

Basically, it owes me $400 if i was going from scratch. BUT, i already had most of the brass fittings, I had the stc and the brown pump setup already. I already had the dial thermo, milk crate, colander, hoses, ball valves, inline tap etc.

Really the only thing i've spent money on are the pot itself, the crab cooker basket insert, voille bag/sheet, and the two elements. Everything else is recycled from my other setups...

One thing i've learnt about the build, is the value of a good dremel too with the attachments. A dremel will work through stainless stuff, retardedly quick and easy, and due to the nature of the tool, is very good at creating neat jobs. And when you've got 50kg's of water and malt sitting above two kmart elements, and a four board power strip, you want it water tight!

Regarding the elements and heating.....

I mash in with strike water from my hot water tap which comes out at pretty much mash temp, so i only need to heat it a few degrees to allow for temp loss when it meets the grain. Probably takes 3-5mins...I crush my grain fresh whilst this is happening, and the stc controls it so it's ready for when i am..

Getting from mash out at 78deg to boil took 23 minutes on it's maiden brew a few weeks ago. This is for a preboil volume of 46.5lt's.

I just control the boil by switching in and out, the second element. One element maintains a nice simmer, two elements makes leaping bubbles o' wort.

when i get home tonight i'll be fermenting the maiden brew i did a few weeks back, which will free up my cubes ready for the weekend's brewday on this single vessel rig.

Can't wait!

EDIT: Forgot to add, when brewday is done, i drain the kettle, disconnect from thermometer and pump assembly, hose out the hop and trub stuff, put back on stand, reconnect pump assembly, refill with hot water and run some citric acid through the rig for an hour or so while i have some beers. Come back and drain it, rinse, wipe out done - good as new.

I do this because where i live, we have big problems with calcium buildup on kettle elements. Once batch and i've got elements covered in white film. Citric recirculating bath does a great job of it.

EDIT #2: The only issue i have with this setup is with cleaning when you disconnect the thermo and pump t piece assembly, water and wort goes everywhere for a little bit. Probably lose about 50-100ml of fluids as the hose backwashes through the pump and out of the top of the t piece. Also, when it's disconnected, it just sit's on the ground inside the milkcrate, which is not an ideal situation, but it works. One day i'll have a better solution to this small inconvenience.


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## breakbeer

I've been doing quite a bit of research on this & other forums before I started buying bits & pieces to make my BIAB keggle, then I stumbled on this thread & your kick-ass system Big Nath. It is exactly what I had in mind, with a couple of added bits of awesome such as the wort return.

I hope you don't mind if I "borrow" your idea & design?


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## bignath

breakbeer said:


> I've been doing quite a bit of research on this & other forums before I started buying bits & pieces to make my BIAB keggle, then I stumbled on this thread & your kick-ass system Big Nath. It is exactly what I had in mind, with a couple of added bits of awesome such as the wort return.
> 
> I hope you don't mind if I "borrow" your idea & design?



Steal away my man, steal away!

When i stop and think about it, it's a pretty simple design. You wouldn't believe all the shit that was flying around my head before i settled on this rig. 

Brewing beer doesn't need to be hard. Grain, soak in water, remove, cook with hops. Throw some yeast at it.....

I seem to be spending a lot of my time and effort lately trying to do things easier. (that should probably be a quote from somewhere).


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## lukasfab

thanks Big Nath, champion


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## Maheel

Big Nath said:


> Regarding the elements and heating.....
> 
> I mash in with strike water from my hot water tap which comes out at pretty much mash temp, so i only need to heat it a few degrees to allow for temp loss when it meets the grain. Probably takes 3-5mins...I crush my grain fresh whilst this is happening, and the stc controls it so it's ready for when i am..
> 
> Getting from mash out at 78deg to boil took 23 minutes on it's maiden brew a few weeks ago. This is for a preboil volume of 46.5lt's.
> 
> I just control the boil by switching in and out, the second element. One element maintains a nice simmer, two elements makes leaping bubbles o' wort.



maybe you could add one of these for the 2nd element to give you power control on the boil 
it gives you adjustment to the power going to the element from 0-100% 
might need to add a cooling fan in the control box but... 


http://www.uxcell.com/25a-ssr-soid-state-r...r-p-145478.html


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## bignath

Maheel said:


> maybe you could add one of these for the 2nd element to give you power control on the boil
> it gives you adjustment to the power going to the element from 0-100%
> might need to add a cooling fan in the control box but...
> 
> 
> http://www.uxcell.com/25a-ssr-soid-state-r...r-p-145478.html



i suspect i'm about to display my retardedness when it comes to this sort of stuff....

how does it control the power? i'm trying to see a variable control to that part, but it looks like it just plugs in, in between the element and the power cable...

I really am dumb when it comes to this stuff.


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## Maheel

you use it with a potentiometer (pot) that you turn to increase / decrease the power to the element 

it looks like a SSR but it's a little more and handy as it gives you "linear' control.
like the stove heat dial but no "on-off" like a thermostat 

more like 25 % power or 50% power depending on where you turn the dial (pot)

basic wiring like this (ignore voltmeter V)

i cant post the link but will PM it to you from another forum


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## Impy

Big Nath said:


> Thought i'd share my new single vessel electric BIAB recirculating mash rig build.
> 
> BN




Hi Nath,

How easy was the instillation of the kettle elements? Was the wiring at all tricky?

I've been looking into building a single vessel electric system and the majority of the ones i've seen have the long hot water heaters elements being mounted horizontally.

Thanks,
Impy


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## bignath

Impy said:


> Hi Nath,
> 
> How easy was the instillation of the kettle elements? Was the wiring at all tricky?
> 
> I've been looking into building a single vessel electric system and the majority of the ones i've seen have the long hot water heaters elements being mounted horizontally.
> 
> Thanks,
> Impy



Very easy - if you have the tools and ability to drill precise and clean holes. No wiring to speak of. The elements have a standard 'kettle' cord setup on the back of them. Its literally remove the element and silicone seal from a kettle ($9 kmart jobbie), drill hole in pot, fit silicone seal, screw element back together in the pot, and connect a kettle appliance cord (also called IEC power cable and your good to go.

I cant emphasise how important it is to get the hole for the element spot on. If not, youll have a fucked up pot that leaks water all over your electrics.

I used a carbide drill bit to start, and then gradually enlarged to size with a dremel rotary tool.


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## dkaos

So Nath, the elements look great, however what is the inner pot resting on? I would think those elements would not be stable enough to hold the grain pot / malt pipe.

I was thinking maybe weld some feet to the other pot for stability? 

Cheers,

Clint


----------



## bignath

Clints Gadgets said:


> So Nath, the elements look great, however what is the inner pot resting on? I would think those elements would not be stable enough to hold the grain pot / malt pipe.
> 
> I was thinking maybe weld some feet to the other pot for stability?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Clint



Wow, thats pretty spooky....Just what im trying to do at the moment, but im gonna use stainless threaded rod and some SS nuts for legs screwed into the bottom of the crab cooker basket.

Currently the basket sits on a SS colander i flogged borrowed from Mrs BigNath, but i think it will work better without the colander, and the basket on legs arrangement instead. Both from a versatility point of view, as well as heat distribution throughout the vessel.

Link to other thread ive got going related to this:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry908088

Cheers,

BN


----------



## bignath

For anyone who is interested as there's been a few of you'se, there is now a youtube link in my signature, of this rig in action.

Couple of things, the large amount of background noise a minute or few in, is rain. Bloody started hammering down once i got the camera out....

Also, i didn't film the boil for two reasons:

1. It's pretty boring, we've all seen it before....
2. One of the two elements crapped out on me, and ended up just being a gently simmer. I didn't realise it was a blown element until after i drained it. The boil was going when it had started to get dark and cold, so i thought "ok, next time i need to get some insulating mat to put around it to keep the heat in" but no....That wasn't the problem.
Have since replaced the element with a spare i had. I am currently trying to work out (there's another thread going about it) whether the problem was a dodgy element, or a problem of scorching the wort, boil dry etc that caused it go bang.
Leaning toward just being a dodgy element though, as i've used these elements before, but in a different setup. Will monitor the situation with another brewday soon.

Had i twigged to the problem, i would have got my immersion element involved but as i said, when it was only boiling gently, it made sense that it could have been the temp of the brew area when the boil was on.

Anyway, have a look if you like. Hope it's not too boring.....

Oh, and sorry for the "squishing" effect. I think i should have chosen "widescreen" instead of "normal" when uploading it. I've never used youtube so that was another first yesterday for me.


----------



## breakbeer

Thanks heaps for posting the video Nath, sorry to hear about the blown element

I've just installed my SS element & lid on the keggle, so stage 1 is complete. Following this thread with much interest

Are you using the standard temp probe that came with the stc-1000?


----------



## bignath

breakbeer said:


> Are you using the standard temp probe that came with the stc-1000?



Yep, standard probe.


----------



## lukasfab

top vid Nath

by the time Im ready to step it up a notch you would have worked your system out  

cheers


----------



## breakbeer

looks like I'll have to buy the full crab cooker, just to get the basket insert. I'm sure I'll find a use for the pot, but it's blowing my budget (which is already outta control since I decided to use all s/s fittings)


----------



## spog

breakbeer, i have been stuffing around with a similar system for a while now using a keggle,the inner basket,crabcooker is substituted with an elcheapo s/s stock pot from the cheap shop.
these pots are thin and easily filled with holes on the bottom and up the sides using a drill and some time.
if you use a small drill bit it makes a voile bag unneccesary so one more less clean up job.....cheers......spog........


breakbeer said:


> looks like I'll have to buy the full crab cooker, just to get the basket insert. I'm sure I'll find a use for the pot, but it's blowing my budget (which is already outta control since I decided to use all s/s fittings)


----------



## lukasfab

not bad idea, how small of a drill bit you think?


----------



## breakbeer

Thanks for the tip spog! I've got alot more time than I have $$$


----------



## spog

sorry for the slow reply,i used a drill bit slightly smaller than 1/8th of an inch,i used this size because it wouldnt let too many grain pieces into the keggle.
to avoid too much cloudy run off just drain slowly at the end of the run off or whirlpool/stir like buggery for a while then drain...slowly.....cheers....spog.....


lukasfab said:


> not bad idea, how small of a drill bit you think?


----------



## black_labb

breakbeer said:


> Thanks for the tip spog! I've got alot more time than I have $$$




I've got a pot I'm going to do a similar thing to but using an angle grinder and a 1mm cutoff wheel. Will be making slits along the bottom so it can run through. Should be quicker than a drill and using the right pattern plenty strong.


----------



## breakbeer

I'll have to find out the diameter of it, but I think the 12L could be a goer....

http://www.geordi.com.au/Products4d.htm


----------



## Danwood

Big Nath said:


> Cant speak for the others that have built rigs in a similar style to mine, but for me i'm not trying to get a grain bed. Quite the opposite actually.
> 
> I remember reading about some (not all) biab'ers experiencing loss of efficiency. I thought, well i need to keep the temp of the mash relatively stable, and if i stir it regularly i should be able to increase efficiency too. So if i put a return tube for the wort that releases it down into the grain, the temp should eventually remain stable (once the rig equalises) and this action should also resemble some kind of stirring benefit too.
> 
> I am coming from a 3v brewery, so i'm familiar with grain beds for clarity and lautering etc...I am more than happy to lose some clarity, to gain simplicity on my brewday provided my efficiency is not too different.
> 
> Typical efficiency for me into the fermenter on my 3V is 83%. Used the single vessel last brewday for the first time (without the aluminium basket though) and landed on 82%. Drained and squeezed the bag, and poured maybe 4-6litres over the top of the bag hoping to extract some trapped sugars. This time though using the basket, i'll be able to open the bag with the basket hanging off my pulley, and pour the sparge water straight through the grain. I'm expecting a higher efficiency next brewday (this weekend). Not necessarily a big increase, but i'm sure i'll hit 85%, in which case i'll be stoked.
> 
> Based on a wet run using just water, i'll be able to knock out two cubes in 3.5hrs or less, and bugger all to clean up and pack away.




That basket is exactly what I've been looking for, but couldn't find, for my 40l Birko BIAB set-up. 

My efficiency at the moment is crap, 55%ish, and easily sparging into the bag-in-the-basket would help. Plus no un-even draining from the bag down the outside of the kettle once its hoisted, I'm guessing?

Do you remember how much you paid ? I'd be looking for something 360mm H by 320mm W.

Great setup btw


----------



## bignath

Danwood said:


> That basket is exactly what I've been looking for, but couldn't find, for my 40l Birko BIAB set-up.
> 
> My efficiency at the moment is crap, 55%ish, and easily sparging into the bag-in-the-basket would help. Plus no un-even draining from the bag down the outside of the kettle once its hoisted, I'm guessing?
> 
> Do you remember how much you paid ? I'd be looking for something 360mm H by 320mm W.
> 
> Great setup btw



Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed this thread.

That basket cost me $50. I got it from a fishing store in my town, and the owner was happy to sell it to me for half the price of the complete crab cooker setup, as i wasn't interested in the pot it was with.

Not all stores will do this though. Try your luck, see how you go.

Diameter of the basket is 350mm, Depth is 280mm.

I've put 4 SS bolts in the bottom of it to support it just above the elements so i don't need to use a colander, and it should also allow better heat distribution through the vessel.

Cheers,

Nath


----------



## seamad

Danwood, if you are only getting 55% eff with biab in an urn then something in your procedure or ingredients has to be wrong .

How fresh is your grain? What is your mill setting? Is your thermometer calibrated? What mash schedule are you using?

If you can post some figures from your brewday and what you do myself and others may be able to improve those figures for you.

Not sure of the dimensions of the birko but i have converted my crown urn into a braumeister copy ( blackdog brewmaster thread if you are interested) and use a bigw 19 l stockpot ($20) as the malt pipe, you could easily driil this pot as its thin, or cut some slots in it, cheaper alternative than most.

Cheers
sean


----------



## Danwood

Ok, thanks for the offer, Sean. And thanks in advance to others for advice offered.

I'll refer to the last recipe I did, which had a typical efficiency problem.

Weizenbock recipe from Jan-Feb BYO Mag, slightly adapted to the stock I had.

Birko 40l Urn BIAB, single step infusion, no mash out (should I ??), no sparge.

4kg- JW Wheat 
2kg- Pilsener
1kg- Munich
0.7- Crystal Wheat
40g Hallertau 6.5% AA @ 60mins

90min boil
60min mash @ 67 C (although it was more like 90mins due to an errand)

During gravity testing towards the end of the boil, I only had 1.056, so added 0.4kg brown sugar (I have dextrose and large supply of honey, but thought the brown sugar might leave some complimentary flavours/colour).

OG - 1.066 Recipe OG - 1.082
FG - 1.008 Recipe FG - 1.021

Mine fermented to 1.008, a big difference considering I'm sure it held 67C, at least for the 1st hour and no additional heat was applied. 

As for the grain, most was purchased 2months ago. The Munich and Pilsener are around 12months old. All are stored in air tight, food-grade, plastic drums in the garage.
The milling is probably on the fine side. I don't sparge at the moment so am not too concerned with it getting stuck. The milling is always per batch and the day before brewing.

So my questions / thoughts are-

Grain too old ? Looking back through brew day notes shows I'm usually low on gravities, even when the grain was new, so maybe not?
Should I add rice hulls with so much wheat involved, regardless of not sparging ? (Although the efficiency problem still occurs when no wheat is used)
Why did it ferment out further ? 

Cheers,

Dan

Oh... and you mentioned a calibrated thermometer, Sean. I assume you meant hydrometer? If so, it's rated at 20C and I test at that.


----------



## seamad

Thats a big beer. Are all your beers this high?
One of the limitations of biab is that effeciency goes down as og goes up. Ive never tried a beer that big but i would think a sparge is going to be essential to improve effeciency. You cant get a stuck sparge with biab so no need to worry about rice hulls. Have a look at nickjd stovetop biwb, he makes a smaller batch with high og then dilutes it down to get a full volume, you may need to adjust his method to your system for high gravity brews. Id be sparging that brew with 78 C water, possibly up to ten litres,doing say 2-3L at a time and checking gravity.

I did mean thermometr, if its out 2-3 C then your fg will be affected. Also adding that sugar is going to lower the fg as well.

Is your urn insulated? Sounds like it probably is if temp was ok after 90 min,which is probably a suitable time for that beer anyway.

Sure some more experienced brewers will chime in with some better advice on high gravity biab
cheers
sean


----------



## Danwood

I've never thought to check the thermometer. I just assumed it's correct. It was brand new when I got it and it agrees with the stick-on fermenter thermometer.
Even it was a couple of degrees out, that wouldn't account for a gravity mis-reading of such high margin...surely?

This was the biggest beer I've attempted, and yes, the margin by which I missed the OG was a lot more than with, say, an ESB I did a few weeks ago. Beersmith - 1.054 Me - 1.046

Yes, the urn is insulated. I had real problems before, not getting a good boil with the lid completely off to allow the steam to escape and not just condense and fall back in!

And in other news.... I've just finished attacking a 19l SS stockpot with a drill, and I'm also watching GryphonBrewing's site for one his little pumps to start re-circulating the mash. I think these two additions should solve some problems.

The pot will be raised up off the element on 3 SS bolt 'legs'. Thanks for that piece of advice Nath, and you too Sean,

I'll raise my first Weizenbock next week in your honour...it reached 7.6%ABV despite the problems....''mmm, malty and bananary''.... then..... ''why am I on the floor ?!!''..... and finally.... "yes, officer, I realise this is no laughing matter".


----------



## bignath

OK. 

updates....

Brewed on this rig again yesterday doing a Citra Pale Ale. I have also made two improvements to the rig.

i have installed two of these, one at each end of the wort return hose. This way i can shutoff the flow of the wort or water from both ends when i disconnect it at the end of the mash to clean it without dumping a hose worth of fluid out from underneath. At the top end (wort return) having one of these also, lets me control the speed of the wort return. 

http://www.gardena.com/au/water-management...trol-valve-1-2/

Had a problem with aprevious brew where i made an element go bang. I suspect it was due to the mash sucking dry faster than it could return back through the mash. No problems this time. Hit every one of my targets, and brew day was soooo easy.

Also, the other improvement is i have finally got round ro replacing the nasty water pressure hose from bunnies, to silicone hose. CHEERS NEV. Very fast service, and cheap too. Arrived today, installed on the rig shortly after. Bought two metres of it. Less than one metre for the rig, and the leftovers will be keg transfer hose.

I love making beer on this rig!


----------



## breakbeer

awesome Big Nath, good to hear ya sorted out the issues

did you have to play around with the flow rate on the return pipe much?

my weldless ball valves arrive tomorrow then I'm just waiting for more of those pumps to arrive & I'm sorted!


----------



## bignath

breakbeer said:


> awesome Big Nath, good to hear ya sorted out the issues
> 
> did you have to play around with the flow rate on the return pipe much?
> 
> my weldless ball valves arrive tomorrow then I'm just waiting for more of those pumps to arrive & I'm sorted!



Hey man, was good to put the rig through its paces without worrying about filming it, timing it, collecti g data etc... I just made beer. Was really enjoyable.

Had the top tap open halfway, maybe a little less. No hint of any problems. Bottom tap was completely open.

Cheers, 
Nath


----------



## Yob

Though my choice is for many more vessels  its a bloody good feeling to dial in on your chosen system.. Especially hitting the right numbers as you go, well done BN.

I love these threads, amd the fact we build our own systems to get the sweet sweet nectar..

My own is going to go though its paces on the weekend,planning a heather ale and then an AIPA back to back

Love this game

:lol:


----------



## black_labb

who needs a 3v setup when you can have 3 1v setups!!!


----------



## bignath

black_labb said:


> who needs a 3v setup when you can have 3 1v setups!!!



:lol: :lol: 

Very funny labb...

I still have my 3v rig which can be used at the drop of a hat too if need be. I've got way to much crap i think....

This single vessel build is really only a glorified HLT with some way of mashing in it, so this can replace my HLT in the 3v and offers me flexibility to brew 1v or 3v.

I probably need to downsize and just settle on one rig, clear out the shed, offload gear etc...









Nah, **** that. :lol:


----------



## lukasfab

Hey bignath what kettle was it from big w?
Was it a adobe or whatever they are, the one I saw was 7 but had no cord/base


----------



## Wolfy

lukasfab said:


> Hey bignath what kettle was it from big w?
> Was it a adobe or whatever they are, the one I saw was 7 but had no cord/base


Over here on the East, BigW, Kmart, and Coles (if they have that kind of stuff at the shop) all sell the kettles for $7-8.
Interestingly -with the BigW Abode kettle- you can plug a computer-type cable directly into the plugs on the kettle-part if you don't want to use the base.


----------



## lukasfab

What sort of computer plug mate?


----------



## lukasfab

What sort of computer plug mate?


----------



## Wolfy

lukasfab said:


> What sort of computer plug mate?


I presume the plug has a technical name, but this is what I mean:









This is the fitting pulled from the back of a BigW 'Abode' cordless kettle, as you can see the 'computer type' plug is a perfect fit.
You don't need to pull the kettle apart to do this, but I have because it's likely I'll be using the element in another container.


----------



## bignath

Yep thats them wolfy...

I got mine from kmart, and it has exactly the same system in it. Not sure about the base on yours, but my kettles drop down onto the base and the three pins make a connection with the ase. Take it apart and just replace with the cable. Too easy!

Technical name for the cable is an IEC cable.


----------



## lukasfab

cheers boys


----------



## breakbeer

Hi Big Nath,

I'm after some advice from The Master, if that's o.k?

At the stage of deciding what Thermometer I should go with. Can't decide between a weldless one like this:

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4326

or an inline one between the outlet of the recirc pump & the wort return pipe, like this one:

http://www.ibrew.com.au/collections/thermo...ial-thermometer


what are your thoughts?


----------



## bignath

breakbeer said:


> Hi Big Nath,
> 
> I'm after some advice from The Master, if that's o.k?
> 
> At the stage of deciding what Thermometer I should go with. Can't decide between a weldless one like this:
> 
> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4326
> 
> or an inline one between the outlet of the recirc pump & the wort return pipe, like this one:
> 
> http://www.ibrew.com.au/collections/thermo...ial-thermometer
> 
> 
> what are your thoughts?



'the master'.....?? Haha, the compliment is nice mate, but trust me.....I'm a f#%^*+g long way from a title like that...

Either will be good thermo's but I didn't want to mount it in line due to adding weight to the wort return line (silicone). 

If you click on the Ibrew link you added, the thermo on the top left page that opens up is the one that's in my wort return path underneath the vessel. Only I grabbed mine from Beerbelly. But I suppose for the money, if the inline one comes with the fittings shown, then if your only going to put it inline, I'd probably go that one. That way, it gives you options by using the supplied fittings or not.

I have a longer stem one as well but that's installed in my esky mash tun for my 3V rig.

Good thermos in my experience.


----------



## breakbeer

Cheers mate, I've decided to go with the weldless one coz that way I can always see the temperature of what's in the kettle. Instead of only seeing the temperature when the wort return pump is on

I seriously under-estimated the amount of plumbing bits n pieces involved, even after seeing your finished set up. My decision to use all stainless fittings will be the death of me

I just received my barbed elbow which will be fitted to the lid & wort return pipe. Other fittings I've bought have a 1/2" barb but I didn't realise the elbow only had a 3/8" barb. I hope the 12.5mm silicone hose I bought fits alright with a hose clamp


----------



## mark0

hey BigNath, what crush grain size are you using? my BIAB crush got very, very stuck. 

i am thinking of a upwards circulation (a la braumeister) so the grain falls back through the wort with gravity or at least i can turn the pump of and break up any grain bed easier.


----------



## bignath

mark0 said:


> hey BigNath, what crush grain size are you using? my BIAB crush got very, very stuck.
> 
> i am thinking of a upwards circulation (a la braumeister) so the grain falls back through the wort with gravity or at least i can turn the pump of and break up any grain bed easier.



Hey man, I'm not 100% sure, but am reasonably confident that my gap setting is 1mm. Could be 1.1mm....Am going to experiment with a finer crush to chase some efficiency points.
Either way, not small enough to be a problem. One of the benefits of a biab process is that you can stir the mash as often as you like and apply heat easily if required. Not really an option on a typical esky mash tun as you don't want to disturb the grain bed, but in biab, any recirc benefits gained are just gonna get stirred back up when you pull the bag anyway.

With my specific design, I think the important thing is to throttle back the pump outlet so it doesn't suck down too hard. Particularly on big grain bills due to the grain being contained by the bag in a crab cooker insert. The bigger the grain bill, it gives the effect of a thicker mash.


----------



## LRJ

Hi BigNath and all,

I see you have two 2.2kW elements. How are these powered? E.g. is one powered through the STC-1000, and the other manually operated direct to its own power source?

From a conversation last night, I gather that most home circuit breakers are set to trip at 20A. Being a 240V supply, that effectively means a max of 4.8kW at any one time. Each powerpoint I believe is only rated to 10A, so a max draw of 2.4kW.

Can anyone confirm this to be correct to their knowledge? Does this mean that running two 2.2kW elements from seperate powerpoints is ok, but if someone in the kitchen boils a kettle then the whole house trips?

What are some of the better ways that people have found to get a fair amount of wattage into their vessel (e.g. two 2.2kW elements) and yet have a fair degree of thermostat controlled automation, and little chance of tripping things out?

Any comments on this would really be appreciated, and if there is already a thread answering these issues, a linky link would be mighty handy.

Cheers,


Liam


----------



## bignath

LRJ said:


> Hi BigNath and all,
> 
> I see you have two 2.2kW elements. How are these powered? E.g. is one powered through the STC-1000, and the other manually operated direct to its own power source?
> 
> From a conversation last night, I gather that most home circuit breakers are set to trip at 20A. Being a 240V supply, that effectively means a max of 4.8kW at any one time. Each powerpoint I believe is only rated to 10A, so a max draw of 2.4kW.
> 
> Can anyone confirm this to be correct to their knowledge? Does this mean that running two 2.2kW elements from seperate powerpoints is ok, but if someone in the kitchen boils a kettle then the whole house trips?
> 
> What are some of the better ways that people have found to get a fair amount of wattage into their vessel (e.g. two 2.2kW elements) and yet have a fair degree of thermostat controlled automation, and little chance of tripping things out?
> 
> Any comments on this would really be appreciated, and if there is already a thread answering these issues, a linky link would be mighty handy.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Liam



you are on the right track Liam....whilst i don't know a whole lot about electrical circuits, and therefore your technical wording may or may not be correct, i would say that you are heading in the right direction. But i wouldn't suggest it's a powerpoint issue like you mention in your first paragraph. More of a circuit thing, as you can have many powerpoints hooked up to a circuit.

I am not sure if this is standard, but my kitchen is on a separate circuit by the looks of it, my laundry is on another one, but seems to be on the same one as a spare bedroom and lounge room etc...Outside lighting is on another altogether, and separate from outside power.

My setup is running a four way powerboard off of one outdoor power point. this powerboard runs the stc controller, a little brown pump, and a laptop for brewday. Leaving one spare outlet on the board. The stc controller runs one of the elements in the kettle. 

The second element, is run off of a separate power source. I discovered that the outside power point that my water softener uses, is a separate line from the one that my patio flouro lighting is plugged into. So i unplug my flouro light, and plug in an extension cord to run my drill for the mill, and then later when i'm boiling i use it for the second element.

Hope this makes sense....

also, for those that are following the brewing process on my rig....

I brewed a double batch of my Citra Ale on Tuesday night. I mashed in with just under 44lt's with 8.08kg grain bill in the 55lt pot. Pushing the maximum limits of my rig with that one. I prepared 10lt of water in my small urn as i was planning on using this for sparge water.
End of the mash, i hoisted the bucket and bag arrangement let it drain, both elements on, and in 2lt increments sparged with the 10lt's i prepared. Landed on my preboil volume, and upon taking my refractometer readings, realised that i'd landed on 85% efficiency. At the end of the brewday, OG and volume suggest i've hit 82.3%efficiency. Which i know is not breathtaking, but it is exactly what i was getting on my 3V rig, so i'm pretty chuffed with that. Means i shouldn't really have to alter my recipes for my rigs. The first two or three brews on this new rig have netted me low 70% so im rapt to have started working out my rig to get it back to where my recipes should be.

Only problem is one of the elements started cutting out raising from the mash out to the boil. I ended up using my handheld immersion element instead, and the other element during the boil. No big problem but i'd love to work out what is going on. It's always the element that is used in the mash that has problems with the boil.

Am starting to think that i will not heat the mash at all, and just kill the power during the mash. I spent yesterday home with a sick daughter, and whilst she was sleeping, i started to insulate the vessel with some camping mat in an attempt to hold temp better so i don't need to use the element during the mash. Then i should be right to crank them both up for the boil.

At least i didn't blow the element this time. I have that problem sorted at least....

The journey continues.


----------



## Jay Cee

Hi Big Nath, I'm coming in a bit late, but awesome work. I'm in the early stages of doing something very similar, although inlet & outlet configurations will differ. 

A few things I like about your design are the feet on the crab colander, the dual outlet for filling two cubes and the fact that it looks so tidy with your wort out being at the base. 

Well done.


----------



## bignath

Jay Cee said:


> Hi Big Nath, I'm coming in a bit late, but awesome work. I'm in the early stages of doing something very similar, although inlet & outlet configurations will differ.
> 
> A few things I like about your design are the feet on the crab colander, the dual outlet for filling two cubes and the fact that it looks so tidy with your wort out being at the base.
> 
> Well done.



thanks mate, i've actually built another rig that's somewhat simplified since i finished the one at the start of the thread.
I bought a bigger pot, with a bigger crab cooker insert, but the basic principle is the same.

Only one tap in it, and i recirculate, fill, and drain from the one ball valve. Only 1 element installed in the new rig and using a handheld immersion as the second element.
I've also done away with the dial thermometer in the recirculation line. Not necessary. 
Have installed some inline valves in the recirculation line and now the rig works well, and is much more simpler. It's flat bottomed too, now that i've got rid of the bottom draining valve. The only thing i think i may add now, is a bazooka screen to the outlet to try and increase my post boil volume. At the moment i'm having to leave behind maybe 3lt's post boil, as due to the element, the vessel doesn't really create a whirlpool which is disappointing. My 50lt kegs in my 3V rig were awesome at doing that.

Oh well, the learning and expansion continues...

will post some pics of the new rig, or even create a new thread when i get some spare time, as this newer version is considerably better and more thought through than the first rig.

Cheers

Nath


----------



## mkstalen

Very cool build, something I'm hoping to replicate soon.

I've just got a couple of questions which I'm hoping people with chemistry and other build knowledge may be able to assist with.

I've already got an aluminium pot which I've used as a standard BIAB pot for a while. Is there any reason why this shouldn't be used in this build?
Any reasons why you shouldn't mix aluminium and ss stuff in a build like this?
I've also seen some of the Bucket-o-death builds and was thinking of using a bucket with drilled holes rather than fork out for an expensive strainer. Again any reason why I should steer clear of this?
Did you have any issues properly sealing the element through the side wall of the pot? Wall being curved element fitting being flat?
Also just watched the video. How do you sparge with this setup? Just hoist the strainer and pour the sparge water straight over and let drain back into the wort pot? Or is there some other process?
And finally, is there any benefit to the thermowell you're using rather than just screwing in a stainless temp probe like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390445511141


I'm looking forward to having a go at this.


----------



## bignath

stienberg said:


> I've also seen some of the Bucket-o-death builds and was thinking of using a bucket with drilled holes rather than fork out for an expensive strainer. Again any reason why I should steer clear of this?



Have left the more chemically based questions you've posed to more qualified brewers to answer as i don't know....

But in regards to using a bucket.....it'd want to be a very rigid type of plastic as the heat from the mash process, combined with the lesser structural sturdiness due to the holes, would mean that the bucket stands a very good chance of collapsing when you pull it out post-mash. I wouldn't do it.



> Did you have any issues properly sealing the element through the side wall of the pot? Wall being curved element fitting being flat?
> Also just watched the video. How do you sparge with this setup? Just hoist the strainer and pour the sparge water straight over and let drain back into the wort pot? Or is there some other process?
> And finally, is there any benefit to the thermowell you're using rather than just screwing in a stainless temp probe like this:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390445511141



No problem putting the element in the side of the pot. Being aluminium (my second rig), you can gently tap the mounting area into a flat surface if you like, but i haven't bothered and i have zero leaks.

You're correct about the sparge process. Hoist the bucket, let it drain, give it a stir with my paddle to loosen it up, pour sparge water through the hanging bucket of grain, let it drain into the pot. This is done whilst the second element is on, and approaching the boil.

Regarding the temp probe....
Provided 1.- That probe will work with an STC1000 controller and 2.- The probe reaches down into the bottom of the grain bed, it should be fine.
My thermowell (copper tube with stc probe sitting right down into the bottom of it) has been constructed to place the probe right in the middle of the mash when the lid is on. Not sure how long that probe you linked to is......

stc compatibility in a build like mine is important as it obviously controls the temp of the entire rig. 

Let us know how your rig turns out when she's done!

Cheers, Nath


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## aaronpetersen

stienberg said:


> Very cool build, something I'm hoping to replicate soon.
> 
> I've just got a couple of questions which I'm hoping people with chemistry and other build knowledge may be able to assist with.
> 
> I've already got an aluminium pot which I've used as a standard BIAB pot for a while. Is there any reason why this shouldn't be used in this build?
> Any reasons why you shouldn't mix aluminium and ss stuff in a build like this?
> I've also seen some of the Bucket-o-death builds and was thinking of using a bucket with drilled holes rather than fork out for an expensive strainer. Again any reason why I should steer clear of this?
> Did you have any issues properly sealing the element through the side wall of the pot? Wall being curved element fitting being flat?
> Also just watched the video. How do you sparge with this setup? Just hoist the strainer and pour the sparge water straight over and let drain back into the wort pot? Or is there some other process?
> And finally, is there any benefit to the thermowell you're using rather than just screwing in a stainless temp probe like this:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390445511141
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to having a go at this.


If you mix aluminium and stainless you will get galvanic corrosion of the aluminium. The severity of the corrosion will depend on how much stainless there is relative to the amount of aluminium you have. BUT, if you isolate the stainless from the aluminium, i.e. there is no physical contact between them, then galvanic corrosion won't occur. I have an aluminium BIAB pot with stainless fittings so I just made sure to use silicon washers and lots of thread tape wherever the stainless goes through the pot to make sure the two metals aren't in contact.


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## Beerisyummy

Hi BN,

I've been looking at your rig and more importantly the kettle elements. Have you added thermal paste between the emergency cutout switch and the pot? After reading about your troubles with the element used in the mash I figured this may have something to do with it.

I pulled one of my old worksite kettles apart today and they all seem to use the same component made under licence by Strix. There are two little bimetal disks that have a different expansion coefficient on each side which cut the power and act as a thermostat. 
The top one is attached to the on/off switch and the second one is between the inner and outer components. The one between the inner and outer parts seems to be set to trip at a temperature well above boiling and needs some sort of thermal paste to function correctly and stop the element from burning out.

I might be preaching to the converted here but I have a habit of pulling things apart andthought it was worth posting incase you hadn't noticed yet. Might save you another $7 for a kettle.

PS. After playing around a little more it seems the emergency cut out only allows the power to come back on once the temp drops to around the 45c mark. That would explain why one is cutting out and not coming back on. Maybe it's the opposite to thermal paste that's needed. I'd say you can disable the switch pretty easily but that would be asking for trouble.


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## bignath

Beerisyummy said:


> Hi BN,
> 
> I've been looking at your rig and more importantly the kettle elements. Have you added thermal paste between the emergency cutout switch and the pot? After reading about your troubles with the element used in the mash I figured this may have something to do with it.
> 
> I pulled one of my old worksite kettles apart today and they all seem to use the same component made under licence by Strix. There are two little bimetal disks that have a different expansion coefficient on each side which cut the power and act as a thermostat.
> The top one is attached to the on/off switch and the second one is between the inner and outer components. The one between the inner and outer parts seems to be set to trip at a temperature well above boiling and needs some sort of thermal paste to function correctly and stop the element from burning out.
> 
> I might be preaching to the converted here but I have a habit of pulling things apart andthought it was worth posting incase you hadn't noticed yet. Might save you another $7 for a kettle.



Hi mate, cheers for the thought....

have only had one element blow, was a long time ago now (early May this year).

Here's what the element looked like:





No problems since i started throttling back the pump. I have changed pots and crab cooker insert to larger ones since that build and haven't had a problem. I'm currently building a PID controlled BIAB rig. Wiring up the enclosure right now actually, should be ready in a couple of weeks (waiting on a couple of parts from Jaycar).

I am pretty confident that the original element blew up due to my sucking the vessel dry faster than it could return (judging by the very linear damage to the element. Looks to me like a "waterline" type thing.

Will look into the thermal paste, but i'm also considering changing elements to the u-bend it ones that QldKev has used since moving away from the KK ones, when i upgrade the pot for this V3.0 rig. For the time being im just gonna use the pot from the second version which no ones seen as i haven't taken any action shots, and then upgrade it sometime this year once i trial out the PID enclosure i'm building.


Cheers,

Nath


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## Beerisyummy

Big Nath said:


> Hi mate, cheers for the thought....
> 
> have only had one element blow, was a long time ago now (early May this year).
> 
> Here's what the element looked like:
> 
> View attachment 59358
> 
> 
> No problems since i started throttling back the pump. I have changed pots and crab cooker insert to larger ones since that build and haven't had a problem. I'm currently building a PID controlled BIAB rig. Wiring up the enclosure right now actually, should be ready in a couple of weeks (waiting on a couple of parts from Jaycar).
> 
> I am pretty confident that the original element blew up due to my sucking the vessel dry faster than it could return (judging by the very linear damage to the element. Looks to me like a "waterline" type thing.
> 
> Will look into the thermal paste, but i'm also considering changing elements to the u-bend it ones that QldKev has used since moving away from the KK ones, when i upgrade the pot for this V3.0 rig. For the time being im just gonna use the pot from the second version which no ones seen as i haven't taken any action shots, and then upgrade it sometime this year once i trial out the PID enclosure i'm building.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Nath



Can't wait to see the new build once you finish. It sounds like a ripper DIY project.

The picture explains why it blew. The water line shows the level of fluid when it blew. A pretty neat shot really.

The elements are designed to work horizontally with the main part of the element below the water level up until the last minute in a boil dry scenario. If you turn them on without any liquid they trip pretty quickly.

With yours mounted vertically the top part has overheated and burned out while the emergency cutout was being kept cool by the wort at the base. I guess that's a good case for mounting them the right way up.

The thermal paste that I was talking about doesn't seem to make much of a difference to the cutout time after I played with the switching unit a little more. There is definately some smeared inside the parts when you pull them apart but I can't tell the difference with or without. You probably don't really need it.

Did you use an extra washer to pad out the thickness of the pot? I noticed that the silicone washer is designed to be used on something with a two to three mm wall thickness.


Cheers

Ross.


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## Beerisyummy

Hi All,

I answered my last question by drilling out a pot and installing the element. The correct size hole saw to use is a 38mm Bimetal jobby and the silicone washer does need an extra buffer installed on the outside of the pot. If you have the tools you can just drill out a flatish part of the kettle with a 51mm hole saw then use the 38mm hole saw on the cutout. It makes a perfect washer for pulling the whole thing tight with no leaks.

Sorry for the slight hijack BN. I thought it might help those trying to copy your design.


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## bignath

Beerisyummy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I answered my last question by drilling out a pot and installing the element. The correct size hole saw to use is a 38mm Bimetal jobby and the silicone washer does need an extra buffer installed on the outside of the pot. If you have the tools you can just drill out a flatish part of the kettle with a 51mm hole saw then use the 38mm hole saw on the cutout. It makes a perfect washer for pulling the whole thing tight with no leaks.
> 
> Sorry for the slight hijack BN. I thought it might help those trying to copy your design.



no worries about the hijack mate, is a good idea to add your findings.

I haven't had to pad up the silicone washer. My pot must be a tad thicker walled, never had a leak in that pot. My aluminium 60lt (V2.0) is even thicker again, and the element is wall mounted as opposed to mounted upright in the base. No problems once again with leaks.

But, another washer is good insurance that's for sure. Just 'cause mine didn't leak, doesn't mean someone else's might not, and i hate to have someone fry themselves by copying my design and not checking for leaks first.

Always a good idea that one!


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## kahlerisms

Hey Big Nath, 

Just came across this topic today - I'm looking to add some automation to my BIAB days and this looks pretty good. At the moment I'm using a 50L keg with a horizontally mounted KegKing element in it and it's forcing me to increase my pre-boil volume because I lose so much space at the bottom with my element and shield.

Would love to read your build thread, especially on how a couple of $9 elements manage to heat 50L! Unfortunately with the new forum theme the link isn't working. Mind updating your sig or posting the link?

Cheers.


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## bignath

Hi mate, the $9 elements do a good job of boiling 50lt if you use two of them. I no longer use them, as since this thread was started, I have upgraded my rig A LOT. 

There will be a build thread for the new rig soon. Just waiting on some elements from uxcell, and then setting up the dual return system on the pot. Will post back soon!


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## breakbeer

Would love to see pics of the new build Nath, I'm about to make a couple of adjustments to mine too. Dual wort return being one of them.

Think I'll upgrade from the little brown pump to a Kaixin & have a t-piece on the outlet, one to the wall of the pot between the two elements & the other going to a ball valve (for throttling) & then through the lid into the mash


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## breakbeer

Just finished my dual wort return & I'm stoked, works a bloody treat! No need for the dimmer anymore either.

I have a ball valve in the bottom & one in the front, I just added a T piece to the pump outlet & ran one tube to the front ball valve & the other to the lid. If I need to throttle back the return to the lid I just open up the ball valve to increase the flow to under the malt pipe.


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## beerdrinkingbob

breakbeer said:


> Just finished my dual wort return & I'm stoked, works a bloody treat! No need for the dimmer anymore either.
> 
> I have a ball valve in the bottom & one in the front, I just added a T piece to the pump outlet & ran one tube to the front ball valve & the other to the lid. If I need to throttle back the return to the lid I just open up the ball valve to increase the flow to under the malt pipe.


got any pics mate


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## breakbeer




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## Crusty

Can anyone point me in the right direction to where to get these connectors for the little brown pumps.
I think they were from ebay, switching power supply & adapter lead or something.
Somebody posted a link some time ago to the seller but I can't find it.
Cheers

View attachment 62247


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## Cavemanbrew

I think you have excelled bloke in the construction and development of the brew system, hats off to you


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## Cervantes

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but I'm in the process of building something inspired by your first build and am very keen to see the improvements that you incorporated into your second build.

Did you ever start a thread for the second build?


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