# Double Batch Brewery Upgrade



## browndog (21/6/08)

Hi Brewers,
Thanks to a post on the Ebay thread I managed to pick up a nest of big S/S pots for $159, noticing that the largest one (80L) had a couple of scratches in the base, I was given another one, then managed to score the scratched one for $40 yippee.........The pots are chinese and quite thin, but they will do the job and they look good. For the mash tun, I'm going to have a 44L pot inside the larger one with the space invader type foam for insulation. I'm looking forward to building this one after learning the do's and don'ts I'll post more pics as the plumbing comes together.








Cheers 

Browndog


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## winkle (21/6/08)

Browndog, my local camping store has some of them (I think they are the same). I just got back from there after filling up the gas bottle. I checked them out (40,60,80 litre from memory), a 80 litre round esky and a Nasa - before SWMBO twigged and said "No way" <_< .
In the fullness of time, these object will start mysteriously appearing...

Looks great BTW.
Interesting to see how the thin base copes with a nasa.


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## randyrob (21/6/08)

Hey Browndog,

good to see, the world is your urinal mash tun!

a few of us guys in the west have simular pots. one word of warning about those 'coke can' pots is make sure you thoroughly dry them after use as they can rust on the seams and they ding quite easily so go light handed with the mash paddle or kettle spoon

other than that you'll never look back you've got a dead set bargain and you'll be a happy camper for a long time to come

Rob.


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## Ross (21/6/08)

randyrob said:


> a few of us guys in the west have simular pots. one word of warning about those 'coke can' pots is make sure you thoroughly dry them after use as they can rust on the seams and they ding quite easily so go light handed with the mash paddle or kettle spoon
> 
> Rob.



Rob - Have you tried passivating the seams? If they turn rusty when allowed to dry naturally I'd be seriously worried about brewing in them :unsure: 
Great score though Tony :super: 

cheers Ross


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## mika (21/6/08)

The cheapo 'stainless' pots I bought were actually magnetic :huh: After buying three of those, that are still sitting in a shed slowly going rusty, I came across 3 more suitable vessels and life is good. As with most things, YMMV.


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## pablo_h (21/6/08)

To the guys in WA, where did you get your large pots from?

I saw the set on ebay, but shipping was $65, and I didn't want to take the risk on the pots being crap with that kind of postage cost.


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## Sammus (21/6/08)

Whats it matter if they are magnetic? I have a lot of stainless thats magntic...


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## mika (21/6/08)

My set was from 'Kongs', basically a local asian supermarket. Had some asian scribble on the sticker, but I don't recall what the brand was.


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## mika (21/6/08)

Sammus said:


> Whats it matter if they are magnetic? I have a lot of stainless thats magntic...



See if a magnet sticks to your beer kegs. There's a special type of proper stainless that is magnetic, anything else is likely to be not-so-stainless if a magnet can stick to it.


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## Sammus (21/6/08)

Whats "Proper stainlness"? As far as I know, there are lots of different grades of stainless, all proper depending on your requirements. 50L kegs for instance have different kind of steel for the barrel and the collar. A magnet will stick to the collar, but not to the barrel (where the beer is stored). Also, I read recently that any cookware suitable for use on an induction cooktop is magnetc (well, not magnetic, but a magnet sticks to it), and there is a lot of high quality stainless cookware out there claiming suitability for induction cooktops.


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## browndog (21/6/08)

Just tried mine with a magnet and it does not stick so I guess it is stainless of some description. Here's a pic of the sticker on them




Had a bit of a go boiling up 50L of water and seems like I have to crank the nasa right up to get a good boil going. I may have to look at an insulating jacker for the kettle.

cheers

Browndog


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## mika (21/6/08)

Stainless

It's the martensitic stainless steels that are magnetic and as explained in the link above they are less corrosion resistant.
It's been a while since I did my metallurgy courses, but it would seem that the 'high quality stainless' cookware is made out of a tougher/harder stainless to resist wear. But then you're not buying 'high quality stainless' cookware for $10 at your local Bi-Lo 

All I can say is that the cheapo pots I bought were magnetic, seemed very flimsy and rusted very easily.

Browndog - One thing I found with these pots on my NASA in initial trials was that they seemed to need some space from the burner. The standard NASA frame had the burner too close and by moving it away by ~25mm the burner was able to run a lot better and heating performance improved.


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## browndog (16/4/09)

Been a long time since I posted on my progress as there has not been any, but that will change soon. I've been slowly purchasing all the bits needed to build this rig and seeing all the great new rigs being built has me inspired. I've decided to build a whole new rig from scratch and currently I'm looking into hard plumbing it in stainless. Here is the plumbing schematic I've come up with, if anyone can point out any possible problems with it, I'd appreciate it.




cheers

Browndog


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## Sammus (16/4/09)

So to chill would you be recircularting it through your chiller back into the kettle? I think you would want to just drain it through the chiller to the fermentor.

Apart from that, it looks OK, but you won't be able to fly sparge without adding a teir or a second pump


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## jagerbrau (16/4/09)

i have to similar pots, both non magnetic, beerbelly welded sockets for me and said were more painfull to weld than most stainless. Hmmm not quality im guessing. Im only going to use as HLT and Mash tun and get Beerbelly Kettle. I have used one of these 50L pots (that only hold 45L) as kettle and did get some scorching on bottom if had on italian spiral up to high. But as said only got till save up for the 70L kettle...



No affiliation etc etc....


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## browndog (16/4/09)

Sammus said:


> So to chill would you be recircularting it through your chiller back into the kettle? I think you would want to just drain it through the chiller to the fermentor.
> 
> Apart from that, it looks OK, but you won't be able to fly sparge without adding a teir or a second pump



Yep, my idea is to chill back into the kettle, then whirlpool and drain to the fermenter eliminating some of the cold break. I'm a out and out batch sparger so fly sparging is not an issue for me Sammus  

Jagerbrau, I tried my nasa on one of the pots when I first got them, they are just too thin to use with a gas burner IMHO.

cheers

Browndog


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## Bribie G (16/4/09)

For the mash tun, seeing as you are using a double pot setup, have you considered taking a leaf out of the old Yorkshire Stone Square system (I know that's a fermenter, but this is going somewhere....  ) and actually fill the space between the inner and outer with mash temperature water, or even better water a couple of degrees warmer? With a temp probe if the water jacket falls below a certain point then drain some out of the bottom (you would need to drill a tap for the outer pot) and refill from top.

I used a water bath method when I did mini mashes and it worked well. In fact if you additionally lag the outer pot I would bet you wouldn't need more than one top up for a one hour mash and would give a far more stable temp in the inner pot than just lagging the gap between the two pots. It would also give you a good temperature-maintenance system for doing 90 minute or even 2 hour mashes.

The gap would be easily obtained with plastic spacers in the base and if accurately placed, the 'side' gap would take care of itself.


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## TidalPete (16/4/09)

browndog said:


> Been a long time since I posted on my progress as there has not been any, but that will change soon. I've been slowly purchasing all the bits needed to build this rig and seeing all the great new rigs being built has me inspired. I've decided to build a whole new rig from scratch and currently I'm looking into hard plumbing it in stainless. Here is the plumbing schematic I've come up with, if anyone can point out any possible problems with it, I'd appreciate it.
> 
> View attachment 26269
> 
> ...



Tony,

All that talk about hard plumbing in stainless is turning me as green as grass.  :icon_cheers: 
This will be a great setup once you get it finished & hope I can make it to the inaugural brewday?
My only criticism (If you could call it that?) is that your HE seems to be a little on the small side. I find mine a little big at 10 litres so I reckon 7 litres would be good? I take it that it will be custom made?  

TP


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## browndog (16/4/09)

Hi Pete,
I'm making the HE out of a 5kg fire extinguisher with an element sticking up though the bottom. The coils will be no more than an inch or so away from the element for its full length, should make for fairly rapid increase in temperature. The plumging should look the ducks nuts when it is done. I'm just pricing a 1/2" BSPF parallel thread button die to tap the pipes for fittings. My biggest hurdle is that the Boss is expecting me to do some extensive rennos to the front of the house, I'm trying to figure how I can do both the new rig and renno simultaneously  In any case I can't see it being completed till the end of the year, no rush as I already have a fairly decent system.

Bribie, 
I originally considered a jacketed tun and discussed this with Chappo, in another thread of his, I've given my reasons for sticking to an insulated tun.

cheers

Browndog


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## winkle (16/4/09)

The only problem that I can see will be ya missus whinging about the cost of the stainless (and everything else that sparkles)  .
Sayes me, currently tip toeing around an upgrade to a gravity fed double batch system B) .


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## fcmcg (16/4/09)

winkle said:


> The only problem that I can see will be ya missus whinging about the cost of the stainless (and everything else that sparkles)  .
> Sayes me, currently tip toeing around an upgrade to a gravity fed double batch system B) .


Winkle,
I'd be interested in your plans for a gravity fed double batch system....may provide some food for thought as i try and eventually head that way ...
Cheers


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## browndog (16/4/09)

winkle said:


> The only problem that I can see will be ya missus whinging about the cost of the stainless (and everything else that sparkles)  .
> Sayes me, currently tip toeing around an upgrade to a gravity fed double batch system B) .




Hehe...too right there mate, she intercepted a package of two PID controllers delivered yesterday. The conversation went like this.

Missus: A package came for you today, what is it?
Me: A few things I ordered (no need to explain what for, it is always the same)
Missus: It's from Hong Kong.
Me: Yes, stuff is really cheap there, I'm saving heaps of money. I just have to go out to the garage for a while.

Where upon I went out to keg an Aussie Dark Ale, when she came out and found me doing this combined with the package got her hackles up a bit, but it didn't last long!

cheers

Browndog


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## chappo1970 (16/4/09)

BD,
That's going to be one awesome rig when finished mate. Stainless everything I like your style. The HE system is brilliant, I would never have thought to use a 5kg fire extinguisher. So I guess the coil for HE will be SS as well? How are you going to bend the SS pipe? I have never bent SS pipe but I hear that is a right b#tch to bend cleanly. 

Reno's you say huh? I work for beer mate especially that Aussie Sparkling you have hidden... :lol:


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## TidalPete (16/4/09)

Any stainless steel is a PITA to work with, especially in bare feet :lol: but having the right gear helps.

TP


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## browndog (16/4/09)

Chappo said:


> BD,
> That's going to be one awesome rig when finished mate. Stainless everything I like your style. The HE system is brilliant, I would never have thought to use a 5kg fire extinguisher. So I guess the coil for HE will be SS as well? How are you going to bend the SS pipe? I have never bent SS pipe but I hear that is a right b#tch to bend cleanly.
> 
> Reno's you say huh? I work for beer mate especially that Aussie Sparkling you have hidden... :lol:



Well, I have to fess up and say the HE coil is 1/2" copper and to get that into a neat 4" coil was a bugger of a job. It would be nigh on impossible to do it in stainless, not saying it could not be done, just saying you would need some schmick gear. Careful what you say about rennos Chappo, I might hold you to it. Got a Jamil's chock hazelnut porter for you to try at BABBs next week mate.

cheers

Browndog


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## chappo1970 (16/4/09)

Good call on the copper IMO. SS would be such a PITA especially that tight a coil. So the rest your doing in SS though? Do you plan to hard fix/weld to the pots etc or flanges and fittings?



browndog said:


> ...Careful what you say about rennos Chappo, I might hold you to it. Got a Jamil's chock hazelnut porter for you to try at BABBs next week mate.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Be happy to give a hand to a mate especially when there's my power tools and your beer is concerned :lol: . 

Chock Hazelnut Porter mmmmmm :icon_drool2: can't wait!


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## Yorg (18/4/09)

I hard plumbed a valve assembly much like your schematic about 2yr ago.
Wanted to see how a possible automated system might work, and I just used the valves manually for a few brews.
BIGGEST pain in the arse to operate. Kept leaving one or another on that I shouldn't have, or it all looked right but why wouldn't it work - oh I didn't turn that valve when I should have, but jeez I checked just then and just couldn't see it.... 
Get the picture? its a forest of valves.
Went back to shifting hoses, all peachy again.

Also - where did you get the pots?


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## browndog (18/4/09)

Yes Yorg, I hear you mate, my current system has quite a few valves and I'm guilty of having a few beers before the boil and leaving the HLT tap open while drain the MT to the kettle and thinking hey, how come the wort in the tun isn't dropping.... DOH.... I got the pots from an asian importer at Browns Plains who advertised them on Ebay.

cheers

Browndog


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## NickB (18/4/09)

Your system looks tops Tony!

I'm trying to minimize the amount of valves. Currently have 3 in rotation with hoses moving for different functions, however will need at least another once my 50L HLT is up and running.

Cheers


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## Yorg (19/4/09)

browndog said:


> Yes Yorg, I hear you mate, my current system has quite a few valves and I'm guilty of having a few beers before the boil and leaving the HLT tap open while drain the MT to the kettle and thinking hey, how come the wort in the tun isn't dropping.... DOH.... I got the pots from an asian importer at Browns Plains who advertised them on Ebay.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Mate can you be a bit more specific about the ebay reference - I would really like to track that down. Perhaps an item number or a seller id?
Cheers.


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## hughman666 (20/4/09)

beware that cheap-ass kongs SS crap. after a couple of months mine started staining (even after repeated washing) and buckling due to heat - plus an unhealthy film started collecting days after a brew - what was it doing to my beer?!

i've gone onto converted kegs for now but robinox pots are my end-game. life's too short to go cheap on your alloy of choice just to find it is tainting your beer (and health)....

you get what you pay for....


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## browndog (22/5/09)

Hi Brewers,
I had a big day today, a double brew day and managed to get the stand for the new rig welded up.





things should start to move ahead a little quicker now.

cheers

Browndog


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## Jye (22/5/09)

Yeah... it looks ok


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## clean brewer (22/5/09)

browndog said:


> Hi Brewers,
> I had a big day today, a double brew day and managed to get the stand for the new rig welded up.
> 
> View attachment 27383
> ...


 Mate,

Have you used those pots yet? How you going with a boil on them? Ive still got my 80ltr sitting there waiting to be used..

:icon_cheers: CB


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## TidalPete (22/5/09)

browndog said:


> Hi Brewers,
> I had a big day today, a double brew day and managed to get the stand for the new rig welded up.
> 
> View attachment 27383
> ...



Looking good Tony. :super: I can't imagine all the improvements you've done to your brewery since I was there last?
BUT I will always remember that you have a 1/2" BSPF parallel button die that I can borrow if I need it. :lol: :icon_cheers: 
Gotta have a beer together soon & trust your double batch will turn out as good as always.

TP


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## Cocko (22/5/09)

browndog said:


> Hi Brewers,
> I had a big day today, a double brew day and managed to get the stand for the new rig welded up.
> 
> View attachment 27383
> ...



I love you man..... [Wipes tear]

Awesome! :beer:


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## NickB (22/5/09)

Looking bloody fantastic Tony!

Hope to catch up for a beer next time I'm down!

You heading to the mid-year swap??

Cheers


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## browndog (23/5/09)

Hey CB, have not used the pots yet, it is going to be an all electric HERMs brewery with 2 X 3000W elements controlled by Sutronics Burst Fire Controllers in the kettle, a 2400W element with PID in the HLT and a 2400W element with PID in the Heat Exchanger. Pete the brewery is exactly how you remember it mate, there's nothing I could do to improve it. Nick, I wasn't planning on going to the mid year swap, but I'll try and put in an appearance. Just got a coat of matt black enamel on the frame, now I can mount the pump and chiller and start work on the S/S plumbing.

cheers

Browndog


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## clean brewer (23/5/09)

> Hey CB, have not used the pots yet, it is going to be an all electric HERMs brewery with 2 X 3000W elements controlled by Sutronics Burst Fire Controllers in the kettle, a 2400W element with PID in the HLT and a 2400W element with PID in the Heat Exchanger.



Will you have to insulate the pots even with the Electric Elements?? 

:icon_cheers: CB


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## sqyre (23/5/09)

Just found this thread.. :blink: 
Looking good Tony.. :icon_cheers: Can't wait to try a few tasty brews out of it..

Sqyre...


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## browndog (23/5/09)

clean brewer said:


> Will you have to insulate the pots even with the Electric Elements??
> 
> :icon_cheers: CB



I'm guessing not CB especially with 6000W heating the kettle, however, being slightly green, conciencous and born near the border of Scotland, I am planning on making some nice jackets for the kettle and HLT out of some foil lined fibreglass cloth I have had put away for some time. The mash tun is a double vessel with space invader foam between the two, so it does not need a jacket.

cheers

Browndog


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## browndog (4/6/09)

In my plumbing design a few posts back you can see the way I have the chiller plumbed involves the wort gravity feeding through the chiller then into the pump to be returned to the kettle, where it was my idea to have the chilled wort whirlpool then drain by gravity, leaving the break material in the kettle. I'm having a few doubts about this design now. I have this option or I could have the wort go straight to the fermenter though via the pump or I could just gravity feed the hot wort into the chiller then straight into the fermenter. The kettle will have a 9" FB. Anyone experienced with the different options I've outlined care to comment op tne pros and cons of their systems?

cheers

Browndog


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## browndog (21/9/09)

Finally got the tun built.




A pot within a pot




I used space invader type foam to fill the void, it is an excellent insulator.



the cured foam trimmed off and a layer of silicon to seal the edge



The tun bottom with 12" false bottom draining though the bottom.

Next step assemble the HE then built a mount for the chillout Mk III and finish the plumbing.

cheers

Browndog


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## clarkey7 (21/9/09)

Browndog,

That's a thing of beauty.. :wub: 

PB


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## clean brewer (21/9/09)

Nice Browndog, good work on the Tun....  

:icon_cheers: CB


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## lefty2446 (21/9/09)

Looking Awesome Tony!

Adrian


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## komodo (21/9/09)

browndog said:


> Finally got the tun built.
> 
> View attachment 31192
> 
> the cured foam trimmed off and a layer of silicon to seal the edge



I like this a lot. Been thinking of doing something similar myself. 
Not concerned about keeping it clean?
I was thinking fibreglass or similar to seal rather than silicon


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## Sully (22/9/09)

Komodo said:


> I like this a lot. Been thinking of doing something similar myself.
> Not concerned about keeping it clean?
> I was thinking fibreglass or similar to seal rather than silicon






I was thinking the same but using the stuff chopping boards are made of, the name escapes me though.


Nice work Brownie :super: Hows the HE project going?

:icon_cheers:


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## browndog (22/9/09)

Komodo said:


> I like this a lot. Been thinking of doing something similar myself.
> Not concerned about keeping it clean?
> I was thinking fibreglass or similar to seal rather than silicon



Do you mean keeping the silicon clean? I'm thought it might discolour a bit but nothing should stick to it. On my other tun I sealed the top with a mix of resin and microballoons, it worked well but is pretty badly stained.

cheers

Browndog


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## Ross (22/9/09)

Beautiful work as usual Tony - must come up & have a look sometime soon - may need to sleep in the car  

Cheers Ross


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## browndog (22/9/09)

Sully said:


> I was thinking the same but using the stuff chopping boards are made of, the name escapes me though.
> 
> 
> Nice work Brownie :super: Hows the HE project going?
> ...



Chopping boards, you mean the white nylon ones? All the bits of the HE are made Sully, ready to assemble when I get the chance mate, been too busy brewing to find time for the new rig lately.

cheers

Browndog


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## AndrewQLD (22/9/09)

As always nice work Tony, looks great, I bet that will hold temps really well, how hard is that foam to use, does it set quickly or do you have plenty of time for adjustments?

Andrew


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## Sully (22/9/09)

browndog said:


> Chopping boards, you mean the white nylon ones?



Yep thats the stuff... HDPE sheeting - check it HERE its rated to 80deg but because its not in contact with the wort it shouldn't be a problem. Being solid there is less chance of piercing or tearing.


Just a thought.

Cheers


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## Screwtop (22/9/09)

Sure looks fantastic Tony................why am I not surprised????

Screwy


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## browndog (22/9/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> As always nice work Tony, looks great, I bet that will hold temps really well, how hard is that foam to use, does it set quickly or do you have plenty of time for adjustments?
> 
> Andrew



It forms a skin in a few minutes Andrew and full cure after 12 hrs, so you do have chance to adjust, you need to be careful you do not make too many adjustments as you can collapse the foam. You also need to apply it in layers so it can go off. I found that when I applied the silicon after two days that I suddenly got a little volcano that discharged foam for about 6hrs in a little erruption. My other tun looses 0 in a 90 min mash, probe is in the center of the mash though so it may loose a bit on the edges.

cheers

Browndog


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## QldKev (22/9/09)

Good idea, bet it will insulate very well. 

QldKev


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

As usual Tony you leave the rest of us in your dust. Simply great work from a craftsman that knows his shyte. I see that you are making no compromises with this build mate.

Ross I might join you on the expedition to Tony's place if that's alright? I'll throw the swag into the ute plus I'll bring the earmuffs along as I hear you snore a lot! h34r: 

Chap Chap


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## browndog (22/9/09)

Chappo said:


> As usual Tony you leave the rest of us in your dust. Simply great work from a craftsman that knows his shyte. I see that you are making no compromises with this build mate.
> 
> Ross I might join you on the expedition to Tony's place if that's alright? I'll throw the swag into the ute plus I'll bring the earmuffs along as I hear you snore a lot! h34r:
> 
> Chap Chap



Turn it up Chappo, you'll make me blush if you keep that up, there's not a lot to see ATM, once I get it all plumbed in it should start looking the goods. I'd like to think a few people will get some ideas for their rigs from my postings.

cheers

Browndog


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

browndog said:


> Turn it up Chappo, you'll make me blush if you keep that up, there's not a lot to see ATM, once I get it all plumbed in it should start looking the goods. I'd like to think a few people will get some ideas for their rigs from my postings.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Did you feel some smoke being blown BD? :lol: Ment every word...

Q? Are you hard plumbing or are you going silicon hose? What's your thoughts on tri-clovers?


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## browndog (22/9/09)

Chappo said:


> Did you feel some smoke being blown BD? :lol: Ment every word...
> 
> Q? Are you hard plumbing or are you going silicon hose? What's your thoughts on tri-clovers?



Mate it is all hard plumbed with 0.75" stainless, the ends of the tube are all threaded to screw into whatever fitting they happen to have on them. 3 piece S/S ball valves everywhere, I'm using barrel unions for any removeable items like march pump etc.


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

Wouldn't mind posting up some pictures of the plumbing there BD as that's my next move with the brewer. Hard plumbing everything in place. I think I'm happy where everything is in the brew rig now might just do one more brew to make sure, yeah?

I'm not familiar with barrel unions any advantages to them?


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## Supra-Jim (22/9/09)

Howdy Chappo,

Barrel union - http://www.irrigationstore.com.au/Product/...7/BARREL-UNIONS

nice neat way to connect hard piped items, so they can easily be removed/disconnected without removing alot of pipework. Simple 3 piece design. Essentially a threaded piece is connected to your pipework (female thread) then the two items are pulled togther via the central 'nut'. The central nut rotates, the pipework does not.

Cheers SJ


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

Ta SJ! :icon_cheers: 

Hmmmm? 316 SS 1/2" BSP are cheap as chips compared to tri's and stuff. I would be interested to know what anyone who is using them thinks of them? BD?


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## Supra-Jim (22/9/09)

We use em all the time at work (vacuum rated systems and also for plumbing water supply circuits). Very easy to use. Probably the main difference (other than the sanitary ratings for tri-clover) is you'll need a tool (wrench/spanner, not referring to you Chappo  ) to undo them, whereas tri-clovers can be undone by hand. Also you do have threads etc so there is the possibility of leaks, nasties build up if you don't clean properly.

Cheers SJ


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> We use em all the time at work (vacuum rated systems and also for plumbing water supply circuits). Very easy to use. Probably the main difference (other than the sanitary ratings for tri-clover) is you'll need a tool (wrench/spanner, not referring to you Chappo  ) to undo them, whereas tri-clovers can be undone by hand. Also you do have threads etc so there is the possibility of leaks, nasties build up if you don't clean properly.
> 
> Cheers SJ




Onya SJ! That's what I was after :icon_cheers: .


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## komodo (22/9/09)

Just a side note regarding the expanding foam.
We found when doing fibreglass work in car stereo builds that the expanding foam in a can was less predictable than the two part foam. Also the expanding foam in a can continued to expand when heat was applied and also we could control the expansion by spraying the foam with water (we used those trigger spray bottles like hairdressers use. get them in the gardening section of bunnings) 

The two part foam can be obtained from most casting suppliers and some fibreglass suppliers. We used to buy ours from solid solutions - cause they are close. 
Solid Cast 690, Expanding Hard Polyurethane Foam 
available here : http://www.solidsolutions.com.au/view_products.php?cat=23 
No affiliation just a happy customer.
The reason I'm suggesting it for others is that its a closed cell when expanded unlike the space invader / expanda foam. 

Mighty impressed so far


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## browndog (22/9/09)

Chappo said:


> Wouldn't mind posting up some pictures of the plumbing there BD as that's my next move with the brewer. Hard plumbing everything in place. I think I'm happy where everything is in the brew rig now might just do one more brew to make sure, yeah?
> 
> I'm not familiar with barrel unions any advantages to them?



Here is the schematic Chappo






cheers

Browndog


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## raven19 (22/9/09)

Not wanting to cause an uproar but is 2400 W going to be enough power to get your HLT up to temp in a reasonable time? Or is time not an issue (timer or similar to be used?)

Great work on the MT thus far!


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## browndog (22/9/09)

raven19 said:


> Not wanting to cause an uproar but is 2400 W going to be enough power to get your HLT up to temp in a reasonable time? Or is time not an issue (timer or similar to be used?)
> 
> Great work on the MT thus far!



I was thinking of using the 2400W in the HE and getting another 3000W for the HLT Raven, though it frightens me the way the price of electricity is going up all the time up here in Anna Blight Country. 

PS. I use a timer too!


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## winkle (22/9/09)

browndog said:


> Here is the schematic Chappo
> 
> View attachment 31214
> 
> ...



Is that an immersion chiller, Tony?


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## browndog (22/9/09)

winkle said:


> Is that an immersion chiller, Tony?



It's a Chillout MK III plate chiller Winkle.


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## komodo (22/9/09)

browndog said:


> I was thinking of using the 2400W in the HE and getting another 3000W for the HLT Raven, though it frightens me the way the price of electricity is going up all the time up here in Anna Blight Country.



Amen to that. I died in the ass when I saw my last electricity bill. Hell theres only two of us in the house, we both work full time and all the lights are low power CCFL (all bar a few 12V 20watt halogens). Hot water is gas, heating is gas, hobs are gas, laptop hardly gets used and is turned off when not in use, printer is always off. Admittedly the oven is electric - but that doesnt get used a great deal. I swear they charge blood money. Next place is definately having solar!


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## winkle (22/9/09)

:lol: 
Should have guessed it would be shiney.
I must get over for a gander as well.


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

Thanks Brownie for the diagram.

Barrels any comments on them BD? Are they welded. Pictures on supplier sites aren't clear to how they are fixed. Pricing is about a 1/3rd of tri-clovers is why I am interested.



browndog said:


> It's a Chillout MK III plate chiller Winkle.



Woah! They haven't been released yet I thought? Do you have an insider at MM?


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## tdh (22/9/09)

Have you considered a lauter grant? I use it between MT and pump therefore never sucking on the grain bed.
I also lay a filter over the LG outlet to filter out the coarse grains when recirculating and I use the LG as a hop back.

tdh


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## browndog (22/9/09)

Chappo said:


> Thanks Brownie for the diagram.
> 
> Barrels any comments on them BD? Are they welded. Pictures on supplier sites aren't clear to how they are fixed. Pricing is about a 1/3rd of tri-clovers is why I am interested.
> 
> ...



I thought it was a Mk III Chappo, I just went under the house to take a look and had to pass the beer taps on the way and had to force myself to pour a beer. It doesn't say what Mk it is, so it is the latest what ever that is, a Mk Antony maybe.. I'll bring a union to BABBs so you can check them out, hos's that?

TDH, I tried a lauter grant on my original rig and wasn't impressed with them, I can't really see the purpose if you have a decent manifold/false bottom etc.

cheers

Browndog


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## chappo1970 (22/9/09)

browndog said:


> I thought it was a Mk III Chappo, I just went under the house to take a look and had to pass the beer taps on the way and had to force myself to pour a beer. It doesn't say what Mk it is, so it is the latest what ever that is, a Mk Antony maybe.. I'll bring a union to BABBs so you can check them out, hos's that?
> 
> TDH, I tried a lauter grant on my original rig and wasn't impressed with them, I can't really see the purpose if you have a decent manifold/false bottom etc.
> 
> ...



Yep you are right no markings but on the MM site he has them listed as a MkIII, so it must be. Wonder how you tell the difference? I'll have to ask buggerlugs when I see him. Thanks Brownie I am just trying to weigh up the options before I do the deed and route up a couple hungy $ of SS pipe.


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## chappo1970 (1/4/10)

Holy crap Brownie! Looks friggin unreal! Gives the $8 Gazillion Brew Master a run for it's money.

Well done mate

Chap Chap


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## browndog (1/4/10)

I stuffed that post up mate, just redoing it.

-Browndog

you're bloody quick mate.


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## chappo1970 (1/4/10)

Great now i look like the forum tard that I am! <_< :lol:


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## browndog (1/4/10)

Try again, got all the plumbing done and time to get into the electric thingies.





In line Mashmaster chiller




Chill water in




Chill or nochill from the kettle




cheers

Browndog


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## chappo1970 (1/4/10)

Chappo said:


> Holy crap Brownie! Looks friggin unreal! Gives the $8 Gazillion Brew Master a run for it's money.
> 
> Well done mate
> 
> Chap Chap



x2 Looks fookin good BD. Wouldn't expect anything less from ya thou.


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## browndog (1/4/10)

Yes it looks good Chappo, but will it brew good beer? that is the question.

-BD


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## chappo1970 (1/4/10)

browndog said:


> Yes it looks good Chappo, but will it brew good beer? that is the question.
> 
> -BD



Oh come on BD I'm sure you'll brew a good beer one day  Maybe? h34r:


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## daemon (1/4/10)

The new system is looking great there Browndog, the plumbing actually looks very neat considering the complexity of it all.


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## Kleiny (1/4/10)

Browndog

how did you join the barbs on the chiller to the thread on the elbows, just can not make it out in the pic?


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## yardy (2/4/10)

bloody nice work Tony B) 

cheers


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## browndog (2/4/10)

Kleiny said:


> Browndog
> 
> how did you join the barbs on the chiller to the thread on the elbows, just can not make it out in the pic?



I bonded some silicon hose into the elbow with silicone Kleiny.


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## browndog (6/6/10)

A couple more pics, I made a sight guage for the HLT, wort diffuser and sliding temp probe for the mash tun and built the control box.













cheers

Browndog


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## bonj (6/6/10)

That is sexy, Browndog! Nice work.


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## winkle (6/6/10)

Looks beautiful mate. :icon_cheers:


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## bigfridge (6/6/10)

browndog said:


> View attachment 36846



Browndog,

Just a suggestion - hard piping should be 'self draining'. By mounting the chiller horizontal, you will get a volume of liquid that never drains.

Far better to mount it vertically so that it can drain, or if that is not feasible, mount it on its side.

HTH,
Dave


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## yardy (6/6/10)

browndog said:


> A couple more pics, I made a sight guage for the HLT, wort diffuser and sliding temp probe for the mash tun and built the control box.
> 
> 
> cheers
> ...




shit maaaate.. nice work :icon_chickcheers: :icon_cheers: 

Dave


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## browndog (6/6/10)

bigfridge said:


> Browndog,
> 
> Just a suggestion - hard piping should be 'self draining'. By mounting the chiller horizontal, you will get a volume of liquid that never drains.
> 
> ...



Totally agree Dave, however I wanted the wort to be able to drain straight into the top of a fermenter so had to keep it horisontal. I set it up with hose clamps so I can just undo the 4 clamps to remove it for sterilising etc, it comes off in 30 seconds. I know I _could_ have mounted it vertically and the pump could have pumped it from a lower height back up into the fermenter, but would have had to dick around with more plumbing.

cheers

Browndog


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## chappo1970 (6/6/10)

Looking totally awesome BD. :icon_drool2:


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## schooey (6/6/10)

Most awesome stuff, Mr. BD, I love it... :super:


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## mccuaigm (6/6/10)

lookin awesome BD


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## clarkey7 (6/6/10)

Looks Great BD :icon_drool2: 

PB


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## cdbrown (8/6/10)

Good stuff BD - any chance of some more pics of the control panel, wiring etc. I like what you've done and would be keen on something similar.


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## browndog (8/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> Good stuff BD - any chance of some more pics of the control panel, wiring etc. I like what you've done and would be keen on something similar.



No worries CDB, at the moment I only have the basic wiring in and have the more intricate stuff on paper. But basically I am trying something very different in regards to controlling the temperatures of the mash and HE. I have one PID set to on/off mode that has a probe located in the mash that will energise the HE PID and pump if the mash temp is too low. With the HE PID with a probe in the top of the HE, I can set to 1, 2 or however many deg C I want to ensure the wort in the whole system never gets too hot. I'll post some more pics when I make a bit more progress.

cheers

Browndog


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## cdbrown (8/6/10)

Very interesting way to control the mash. Any reason for not continuously recircing? I've not wired up the PID to turn it on - is there any lag from power on till it actually starts it's proper function? There isn't any requirement to actually push any buttons to start the program on the HE PID is there? 

Did you get the ramp soak for the HE PID or just the normal on/off. Ramp/soak allows you to time based steps which of course are no use if your MLT keeps turning it off.


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## browndog (8/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> Very interesting way to control the mash. Any reason for not continuously recircing? I've not wired up the PID to turn it on - is there any lag from power on till it actually starts it's proper function? There isn't any requirement to actually push any buttons to start the program on the HE PID is there?
> 
> Did you get the ramp soak for the HE PID or just the normal on/off. Ramp/soak allows you to time based steps which of course are no use if your MLT keeps turning it off.



I'm not interested in fly sparging, I just want to be able to set a temp for the mash and have the system hit it and shut down, then I'll batch sparge at the end of the mash. The PID units I have do not support ramp/soak so for me it will be a matter of setting the mash temp and the temp I want the HE to run at then mashing in with strike water to achieve a protein rest temp and let the PIDs do their thing.


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## cdbrown (8/6/10)

Well then that makes sense. I'm not planning on fly sparging either as I'm not keen on having to buy a 2nd pump. I'll be having the pump recirc for the entire mash, using the ramp/soak PID to do any temp changes from dough in to mash out.

What's the control panel made from?


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## browndog (8/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> Well then that makes sense. I'm not planning on fly sparging either as I'm not keen on having to buy a 2nd pump. I'll be having the pump recirc for the entire mash, using the ramp/soak PID to do any temp changes from dough in to mash out.
> 
> What's the control panel made from?



I folded it up out of a piece of 40thou 5005 aluminuim sheet mate. Some matt black paint and some home made decals and Bob's your Mum's brother.

-BD


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## browndog (21/6/10)

Finally got my wiring sorted thanks to Bulp for his knowledge of PIDs, in order to have one operate as an on/off controller I had to use a built in relay that is used for alarms to switch the feed to the second PID and the pump. Also I managed to install a float switch in the HLT rigged to an indicator light and installed the elements and wiring in the kettle and gave it a run. Not happy Jan, I tried it out with 50L of water and the temp in the kettle ramped up nicely at 12C every 10mins but once it got to 100C instead of a nice rolling boil it was only a simmer directly above the elements 2 X 2400W. I am going to insulate the kettle and give it another run, but I am a bit worried the geometry of the kettle being nearly as wide as it is high may have something to do with it. The plastic element boxes only got warm not hot, but the elements were only running for 40 mins so that might change for a full boil. 











The way this works is if the mash temp is too low the mash PID turns on the heat exchanger PID which can be adjusted to any value above the mash temp and the pump to recirulate the wort through the heat exchanger. When the set point is reached, it shuts them down. The sender for the mash is located in the center of the mash. The sender for the heat exchanger PID is located just near the outflow into the tun.

cheers

Browndog


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## bonj (22/6/10)

Have you tested the wiring, Tony? 

edit: Actually, it will work. I assume the switch is the pump manual override, so you can turn it on without the PID switching it on.


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## browndog (22/6/10)

Bonj said:


> Have you tested the wiring, Tony?
> 
> edit: Actually, it will work. I assume the switch is the pump manual override, so you can turn it on without the PID switching it on.



Your assumption is correct Ben, the switch is for manual operation of the pump for pumping sparge water, and wort to the kettle. The other switches in the control box are to switch the current to the elements so you can just use the PIDs to monitor temps. The switch adjacent the mash PID I will probably hook the probe to and include another to monitor chiller outflow temp or some such.

-BD


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## browndog (4/7/10)

Fitted some closed cell foam insulation to the HLT and Kettle and tried the kettle out with 35L of 20C water, it got it up to the boil in 40mins with a good strong rolling boil so I think with wort being much denser than water it is going to work very well, double batch boils should not be a problem either. Been tinkering aound adding a few bits, so I thought I beter post some pics for the bling lovers. Appologies to those on dial up.




Knocked up a pump guard to keep fluids out of the motor.




This shot shows the 2400W element, the float switch for the low water warning light and the PID probe in the center of the pot.




The heat exchanger probe is located in the silicon tube that feeds into the mash tun.




2 X 2400W 1" BSP elements and a 9" false bottom make up the kettle.




I formed a splayed end of the wort return pipe that feeds down onto a diffuser that will hopefully spread the returning wort evenly though the mash.




A jumble of wiring, some to get some temporary power in, the feeds to the SSRs and switches still to be done.




A shot of the HLT and Kettle with their new coats, also I removed the supporting frame from the chiller, it now hangs from the plumbing.

cheers

Browndog


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## bulp (4/7/10)

You are a brewery artist Tony, its so beautiful i almost wept .




:beerbang:


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## NickB (5/7/10)

One word Tony - :icon_drool2: 

Just a quick question - how do you plan to empty the mash tun? Looks like it's hard plumbed into the HEx...?

Cheers


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## winkle (5/7/10)

browndog said:


> Fitted some closed cell foam insulation to the HLT and Kettle and tried the kettle out with 35L of 20C water, it got it up to the boil in 40mins with a good strong rolling boil so I think with wort being much denser than water it is going to work very well, double batch boils should not be a problem either. Been tinkering aound adding a few bits, so I thought I beter post some pics for the bling lovers. Appologies to those on dial up.
> 
> View attachment 39156
> 
> ...



Aaaaaarrrrggghhh! Blinded by bling!  

I really feel like the poor cousin now


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## yardy (5/7/10)

you do nice work mate, you should be proud B) 

cheers

Dave


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## Paul H (5/7/10)

Geez Tony that's Brew Porn.


:icon_cheers: 

Paul


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## browndog (5/7/10)

NickB said:


> One word Tony - :icon_drool2:
> 
> Just a quick question - how do you plan to empty the mash tun? Looks like it's hard plumbed into the HEx...?
> 
> Cheers



Everything is put together with barrel unions Nick,all I have to do is undo one nut and the different vessels can all be removed from the stand exept for the HLT because of the wiring. You never need to remove that one anyhow. Thanks for the comments Brewers, I really enjoy making shiny things and it is so much better when you can take your time with it.

cheers

Browndog


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## cdbrown (29/7/10)

browndog said:


> View attachment 39157
> 
> 
> A jumble of wiring, some to get some temporary power in, the feeds to the SSRs and switches still to be done.
> Browndog



The whole rig is a thing of beauty. Would there be any chance of showing some more pics of the guts of the panel. Do you remember where you got those switches from? Do they light up? Have you got heatsinks mounted on the outside of the enclosure for the SSRs? 

Cheers
-cdbrown


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## T.D. (29/7/10)

One thing I always wonder about hard-plumbed rigs is how are you going to empty the mash tun? Bailing it out?


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## NickB (29/7/10)

Ummm, read my post 2 above yours T.D.......


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## browndog (29/7/10)

cdbrown said:


> The whole rig is a thing of beauty. Would there be any chance of showing some more pics of the guts of the panel. Do you remember where you got those switches from? Do they light up? Have you got heatsinks mounted on the outside of the enclosure for the SSRs?
> 
> Cheers
> -cdbrown



No worries cdb, I'll take a few in the next day or two. The switches are 15A DPDT from jaycar and they do light up, I didn't bother with heat sinks for the PIDs I just used plenty of thermal paste in the hope that the control box will be the heat sink, I've given the kettle a run and also the HLT and there has been no issues with heat in the control box or the element connection boxes. Unfortunately the plumbing has leaks everywhere, so I am going to have to dismantle it and redo all the joins with epoxy to seal it up nice and tight, then it's time to trial the mash tun and HERMs. 

cheers

Browndog


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## cdbrown (30/7/10)

browndog said:


> No worries cdb, I'll take a few in the next day or two. The switches are 15A DPDT from jaycar and they do light up, I didn't bother with heat sinks for the PIDs I just used plenty of thermal paste in the hope that the control box will be the heat sink, I've given the kettle a run and also the HLT and there has been no issues with heat in the control box or the element connection boxes. Unfortunately the plumbing has leaks everywhere, so I am going to have to dismantle it and redo all the joins with epoxy to seal it up nice and tight, then it's time to trial the mash tun and HERMs.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog




That would be great. Shame about the leaks, I know your pain. I thought I'd fixed all the leaks in the welds (not good at welding) but after putting more water in the hlt I found water was very slowly seeping out. Very annoying.


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## browndog (14/7/12)

Wow, I just took a look back at this thread and can't believe I started building this rig in 2008 and still have not run it. I need to fix some leaks in the plumbing and attach some 240V leads and it should be good to go. looking forward to doing double batches.

-BD


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## RdeVjun (14/7/12)

Yeah BD, that's one helluva long term project and still not even a single pint out of it!  Mind you, chances are high for the first one tasting pretty darned sweet. :beerbang: 
Q. Can you tell us how the temperature probe is anchored in the HEX outlet? Is there a tee within the silicone hose which interfaces between copper and stainless- I can see the gland for the probe but not sure what's under it, or does it all just sit there supported by the silicone hose? I suppose it is low pressure etc and needs to be disassembled periodically so a tee there would be a complete PITA.
Looking forward to the maiden voyage report! :icon_cheers:


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## winkle (14/7/12)

browndog said:


> Wow, I just took a look back at this thread and can't believe I started building this rig in 2008 and still have not run it. I need to fix some leaks in the plumbing and attach some 240V leads and it should be good to go. looking forward to doing double batches.
> 
> -BD



Thats because you're a lazy bugger who spends all his time drinking Gold down the pub with his bogan mates  

Seriously BD, you should invite me over for a look when its a goer :icon_cheers:


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## Cocko (14/7/12)

BD, you and Jonathon should get together and talk about how good your rigs are _going to be_  

Seriously though, please post up some pics on completion, when ever that may be! It looks the bidness!

Cheers


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## browndog (14/7/12)

RdeVjun said:


> Yeah BD, that's one helluva long term project and still not even a single pint out of it!  Mind you, chances are high for the first one tasting pretty darned sweet. :beerbang:
> Q. Can you tell us how the temperature probe is anchored in the HEX outlet? Is there a tee within the silicone hose which interfaces between copper and stainless- I can see the gland for the probe but not sure what's under it, or does it all just sit there supported by the silicone hose? I suppose it is low pressure etc and needs to be disassembled periodically so a tee there would be a complete PITA.
> Looking forward to the maiden voyage report! :icon_cheers:



Because I'm a lazy bastard and there is no pressure in the hose there I just drilled a hole in the silicone hose and screwed the probe straight in Ralph.

@ Winkle, that and doing never ending renos on the house to keep the missus happy.

@ Cocko, I've got a major incentive to commission it as I'm selling my faithful old rig. I've got Liam's mayo bucket ghetto rig here as an interim, hopefully I don't get too attached to it!


----------

