# What Licence / Insurance?



## Yob (30/1/15)

Background:

Ringwood Highland games, we've been along every year that we've been out in the burbs and one of the things that's been sadly missing from the event is.. yep.. booze.. I approached a member in the club the other night to gauge interest in brewing some Scottish Ales for the event, only as a give away, just to get involved and get some exposure for the club

I contacted the event organisers the other day and got this reply:

Hello, yes, I am very interested in you coming to the Ringwood Highland Games.
We have never been allowed to have anything of the alcoholic variety before,as it is considered a Community event, BUT,as we are in the grounds of a licensed club, it changed things!
We already have a WHisky Tasting business coming, but they did have to obtain a licence...they are not selling either...just take orders,so you may need to look into that.
I will ring you so we can have a chat.


So what are we going to need... I know Thirstyboy and crew did a roaring giveaway at one of the beer expo's at fed square a few years back... evil hop monster as I recall, practically had to chew through it :icon_drool2: ... as I say, we arent looking to sell, just brew for and give away some beer, make the event just that little bit more fun... besides.. I still have a couple of packs of Heather flowers to get through and I can think of no better way to do so than this :drinks:

What cover / Licence should I be looking at getting?


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## technobabble66 (30/1/15)

Um ... Medical insurance? ...

Sorry - low hanging fruit and all that. Carry on. Nothing to see here.


Edit: Big ups on giving this a crack, J! I'd guess you contact that Whiskey mob and get the run down off them - should be similar/same for you (?)


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## Mardoo (30/1/15)

Insurance-wise you should be covered by the organiser's liability insurance. Check with them. Other than that just an event license should cover it, but I haven't done anything like that for about 10 years so more minds are in order. Anyone else?


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## glenos (30/1/15)

To sell beer you have brewed you will need a producers licence and a sellers licence probably an on-premise, and ATO excise approval. If you are giving it away I have NFI but wouldn't be surprised if the same requirements apply. Here in TAS you can get special and club permits for a single day event like this they are quite easy to obtain as a retailler (selling someone elses booze which has already been taxed)

http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/home/liquor/new+applicants/select+the+right+liquor+licence/

http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/home/laws+and+regulations/legislation+and+regulations/liquor+legislation/


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## GrumpyPaul (30/1/15)

There is a beer produces license that allows you to flog your beer at farmers markets, festivals etc.

However I think it is more geared at brew on premises type of place. No sure how it would work for the club, as in what premises the license would be issue for.

The other consideration is that license allows you to sell it - you are talking about giving it away.

so my answer is ....I don't know.

this might help

http://assets.justice.vic.gov.au/vcglr/resources/fac4f301-a862-48b3-ac5f-3fe5065dfb23/wineandbeerproducerslicence_factsheet_june2012.pdf


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## Ciderman (30/1/15)

People at markets sell under a cellar door licence.


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## manticle (30/1/15)

He's not selling.

Probably rsa and all that yob but best check with the local council, possibly local cop shop and the whisky guys. You'll get a million answers here that will leave you knowing less than before.


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## elcarter (30/1/15)

Talking to a brewer a while back about this and he said the people at the licensing department were always particularly helpful.

Might be worth giving them a call?


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## Blind Dog (30/1/15)

I know its a different State, and a different concept, but it might be worth talking to Sam T: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/83359-home-brew-master-the-vic-hotel-enmore/

The only other thought I had thats not covered by Maticle's post, is whether the licenced club is going to be too happy with you giving away free beer on or near their grounds. You might need to get them onside


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## yum beer (30/1/15)

If you are in the grounds of a licenced club you may not need any permits etc, talk to the club itself you may be able to give out under their licence.
Don't know how you would stand regards taxes/excise.
Would imagine it would be similar to supplying your own kegs for service at a wedding/party, you supply they hold permits, probably need someone with an RSA to hand out.


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## Yob (30/1/15)

NOT SELLING!!.. Sheesh, only mentioned it twice in the OP..

Plenty of folks at the club with RSA and TBH, I should get my ticket too.

I'll give the council and call, see what they have to say or who they can put me onto.


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## Yob (30/1/15)

Blind Dog said:


> I know its a different State, and a different concept, but it might be worth talking to Sam T: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/83359-home-brew-master-the-vic-hotel-enmore/
> 
> The only other thought I had thats not covered by Maticle's post, is whether the licenced club is going to be too happy with you giving away free beer on or near their grounds. You might need to get them onside


The venue itself doesnt operate on the day trading Alcohol so I assume it's going to be fine as long as the event organisers are cool with it, presumably thats on their end to get sorted, who knows it may evolve into a joint operation in years to come.. funnier things have happened.. 

______________________________________________________________________

Top of the hill, ball rolling.. just for further info for anyone looking this up in future..

A Temporary Licence  is probably required, once this has been gained, in my case being an add on to to an event, I'll need to gather a letter of approval from the event organiser, as above, I have this already, and then send this off with the temporary licence to the council, no permit is required but written permission is probably a good thing to have.

As far as I can see, it's $55 for it which is pretty reasonable.

Liquor Licencing Fees - Victoria 

A few more boxes to check off Im sure but it look like a doable thing... must get my RSA...


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## Nullnvoid (30/1/15)

Sounds great, I'll come and buy some. How much?

















<running from Yob>


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## Yob (30/1/15)

appears we COULD sell it if we wanted, the permit covers direct or indirect sales... not saying we will of course but it looks as though we could if we wanted to unless Im missing something.. :blink:


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## mxd (30/1/15)

Yob said:


> appears we COULD sell it if we wanted, the permit covers direct or indirect sales... not saying we will of course but it looks as though we could if we wanted to unless Im missing something.. :blink:


good call, sell plastic one use only pint glass for $5 which must be used for the free beer as that way we know it's sanitary

that reminds me of my old school teachers brother who sol pool tables, they weren't allowed to on on Sundays (obviously I'm old) so he sold books with free pool tables (as book sellers were allowed to trade on Sunday)


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## Mardoo (30/1/15)

The producers license and the excise is the sticking point on selling it, and the powers that be are not at ALL cool with folks selling home brew without those. I looked into this a couple years ago trying to do very local music and home brew events.

Which, incidentally I haven't given up on.


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## wynnum1 (30/1/15)

What about alcohol content do you have to get accurately measured .


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## Yob (30/1/15)

Mardoo said:


> The producers license and the excise is the sticking point on selling it,


you know, I asked her about the producers Licence and she said no, the temporary Licence covered it but that can't be right, I was just having this very discussion on it with the lads in the office....

ED: ATO Deals with that.. _aint their binnesss_

_ATO > _*13 28 69 Alcohol Fuel and Tobacco*

*Press for Option 1*

*Press fro option 3*

*Leave messege  *


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## Blind Dog (30/1/15)

AFAIK (i.e. just about bugger all) a temporary licence should cover the sale of alcohol and is generally for events where alcohol is purchased wholesale and then sold at the event (i.e. excise has already been paid). If you're also producing the alcohol, then the State licence may cover its sale and may also licence its production in Victoria, but it wont cover excise licencing which is the sole domain of the ATO. I don't know of any exceptions to the excise licencing rules, but that's not to say one doesn't exist. I'd give the ATO a call if you want to head down that road. Just as an FYI, the penalties for non compliance are pretty draconian


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## Mardoo (30/1/15)

Blind Dog said:


> I'd give the ATO a call if you want to head down that road. Just as an FYI, the penalties for non compliance are pretty draconian


In the States they include a lifetime ban from alcohol production and distribution. But then they're bigger dicks about this stuff than Aussies usually are


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## Weizguy (30/1/15)

We (i.e. MHB) asked about the local homebrewers providing samples at Bitter & Twisted.

He was advised by the local police to contact OLGR (Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing)

OLGR said it was OK, as long as we had RSA and weren't actually selling the beer.

Please check with your locals to confirm


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## Yob (30/1/15)

ATO, despite insisting I couldn't give it away have now been convinced that indeed I can, all boxes have been ticked, got all the info about the event, licence application going in on Monday 

Rockin


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## yum beer (30/1/15)

I remember a while back looking up the excise rules and there was a point about how the beer is made.
Something like..."beer produced on commercial equipment for the purpose of commercial sales is subject to excise"
My understanding always was that home brew is not made on commercial equipment and as your not selling there is no commercial sale/product to attract any tax/excise.

Get your permit from council and clear conditions in writing and all should be good.
Check ID's real good.


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## Mardoo (31/1/15)

Got an RSA if you need a server.


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## Midnight Brew (31/1/15)

Mardoo said:


> Got an RSA if you need a server.


Me too, If you need me.

Im not sure if this was legit or not but I used to work as a 2-3 man crew in a cellar door setup and was told only one of us needed an RSA and I was the one that had it and the other two didnt they were effectively 'training'.


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## Yob (31/1/15)

That may be very handy indeed, I don't have mine yet so will be seeking assistance from the club for that part for sure 

Lady tells me attendance is about 4000... We're gunna run dry


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## Yob (31/1/15)

I'm doing a brewday with CM2 I plan on providing a double batch of heather ale, anybody else wish to provide a keg of something Scottish? 

Need it for march


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## Midnight Brew (31/1/15)

How about a mild with a Scottish yeast?


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## Yob (31/1/15)

Sounds like a win to me, what yeasts you got banked?


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## Midnight Brew (31/1/15)

Scottish wise just WLP028 Edinburgh Scottish Ale, pretty good performer that let the hops shine as I dry hopped the beer I used it in a heap.

Got about 7 UK strains now :icon_cheers:


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## Mardoo (31/1/15)

IIRC GrumpyPaul does a fair bit of Scottish brewing. He might be game.


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## Yob (31/1/15)

I'll shoot him a text, there will probably be a club email coming out as well, need to speak to Andy


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## winkle (31/1/15)

Get your RSA (State) online Yob, pretty cheap and takes about 1 hour of your time.


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## mxd (31/1/15)

I've had plenty of experience with RSA's, many bars have refused to serve me


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## GrumpyPaul (31/1/15)

Mardoo said:


> IIRC GrumpyPaul does a fair bit of Scottish brewing. He might be game.


Would love to brew for this - but I have just commited to brewing 6 kegs for sons 30th at the start of April. Time to brew it all is only half the problem. I can only fit one at a time in the ferment fridge.



winkle said:


> Get your RSA (State) online Yob, pretty cheap and takes about 1 hour of your time.


I was looking at this yesterday - Victoria is the only state that you cant do it online.


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## mxd (31/1/15)

Yob said:


> Lady tells me attendance is about 4000


 wow your going to need about 250 ltrs

r u going to do a brew on site to "teach" the punters

As there Scottish you'll need to stress how cheap it is


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## zooesk (31/1/15)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Would love to brew for this - but I have just commited to brewing 6 kegs for sons 30th at the start of April. Time to brew it all is only half the problem. I can only fit one at a time in the ferment fridge.
> 
> 
> I was looking at this yesterday - Victoria is the only state that you cant do it online.


 I couldn't do my online (nsw) last year in June but my of changed now


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## Yob (19/2/15)

mxd said:


> wow your going to need about 250 ltrs
> 
> r u going to do a brew on site to "teach" the punters
> 
> As there Scottish you'll need to stress how cheap it is


Are you putting your hand up Matt?  Its a great idea and I've thought about it, possibly next year, I think we are pushing the limits of what we can do this year with the time we have (or distinct lack of) 

We've got about 6 kegs committed so far, off the top of my head.

1 x Heather Ale
1 x Stout
1 x Porter
1 x Scottish Ale
1 x Irish Red
1 x ESB

and probably more that I cant recall.. From the outset I thought about 8 would be the go so pretty good turn out for folks giving away their craft and time.

Many thanks to all for their generosity and time :kooi:


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## Yob (28/3/15)

My first bar..


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## technobabble66 (28/3/15)

Hey. It's just a collapsible pergola with a banner and a wheelie bin. Where's the bar/taps?!? We need better photos!


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## technobabble66 (28/3/15)

Or more to the point, in a Peter Russell-Clarke voice:
Where's the BEER??
:lol:


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## Yob (28/3/15)

Just setting it up today, got the 4 tap jockey box at home, cleaning lines and.. Er.. Testing the system for quality assurance purposes


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## Yob (28/3/15)

Gotta put a big shout out to all the contributors, we've got 6 kegs to pour tmoz, a huge effort at such short notice. 

Cheers all, see you tmoz where the beer is free


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## technobabble66 (28/3/15)

Cheers. Best of luck tmoz! 
I'm guessing you'll have no trouble draining those kegs dry. 
More photos tmrw!


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## GrumpyPaul (28/3/15)

Yob said:


> and.. Er.. Testing the system for quality assurance purposes


I knew it.....big night last night? How many kegs are left after "testing"?


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## Mardoo (28/3/15)

There's still tonight...


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## Yob (28/3/15)

GrumpyPaul said:


> I knew it.....big night last night? How many kegs are left after "testing"?


Rest assured, this morning I awoke without a hangover.

It's only today I have all 6 kegs here.

QA in T minus 15 and counting 

We cleaned the Jocky Box today, just need to test the system and make sure we know what we're doing to set it up properly tmoz.

Arriving at about 11:30, pouring begins at 1:30 for the public


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## Midnight Brew (28/3/15)

Another Scottish ale is on the cards. Getting excited about tomorrow to try the rest :icon_cheers:


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## Yob (28/3/15)

I'm running my jaryllo single hop through it..

Working pretty well ;p


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## Blind Dog (29/3/15)

Good luck for today Hope it all goes brilliantly


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## Yob (29/3/15)

All ready.. gunna be a wiked day


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## DU99 (29/3/15)

Enjoy :beer:


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## GrumpyPaul (29/3/15)

Yob said:


> All ready.. gunna be a wiked day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why isnt the photo of you in your skirt/kilt posted on here.


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## Yob (29/3/15)

Give it time...


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## GrumpyPaul (29/3/15)

Sorry I didn't get down there.

How did it go.


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## Mardoo (29/3/15)

A great day. The Scottish ales and the heather ale were a big hit. Lots of interested people and quite a few people asking where they could buy the beers. I had a great time giving away heaps of free beer!


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## GrumpyPaul (29/3/15)

Great job gentleman....

Good on you for getting out there and promoting not only Melbourne Brewers, but also for representing the home brewing community. There are now a few less people out there that thing home brew is shit.

Hats off to you all but especially to Yob for all his hard work.


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## mudd (29/3/15)

Popped in late arvo. Was wandering around looking for the stand and got accosted by this big hairy bloke in a skirt with a free beer banner. Heather ale was particularly good. 100ml tasters meant there was still plenty left.
Well done Yob on organising the day.


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## Yob (29/3/15)

Ha.. the very nerve 

a few piccies




The bar and display




Had some decent lines at times, what was nice was the people seemed genuinely interested in the types of beers we had on offer, quite often asking numerous questions. Though I personally wasnt heavily involved there, I was accosting people with a poster and convincing them that it was in fact, free Beer.. Never would I have believed it so hard to get people to believe it was totally free... especially a gathering of Scotsmen..




It was good to also have a BIAB brewing demo going, did a double BIAB over the day and the aromas were of course diving and much interest and attention was given to the brew. came out at 1.200 or something stupid like that :blink:

We fell short of giving away all the beer we bought which is also a surprise, we still had a number of un touched kegs.

A big thank you to all the people who helped bring this together, it could not have been done without all of us pitching in together to make it happen and Im truly amazed by the efforts you all went to to bring it together. Not bad for a bunch of pissheads with only 6 weeks or so to pull it all together. You guys rock!

big :super: :kooi:


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## DU99 (29/3/15)

wheres the pic of YOB in the kilt


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## technobabble66 (29/3/15)

Kilt, kilt, kilt!!!!

You're surprised us Scotsmen are skeptical cynics??

Congrats Yob (et al). Amazing effort. 
Gee, what are you gonna do with the left over beer?...


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## hotmelt (29/3/15)

DU99 said:


> wheres the pic of YOB in the kilt


Bottom right 3rd photo ?


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## Midnight Brew (30/3/15)

Yesterday was an absolute fantastic day to spend giving away free beer to the punters. There were kilts, wasps, a BIAB in action and ofcourse lots of great choice of ale. All the beers were well received and the punters were stoked to find out that it was all made at home on small systems.

My highlight of the day was when a Scottish man was enjoying all samples and then came back a few hours later for more. He had his little lads with him and gave them each a smell of the aromas. At the end of the second tasting he wished us luck and said to his son:

"Alright lads now shake the mans hand. He is a very important man. He makes beer for the town."



Count me in for next year.


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## GrumpyPaul (30/3/15)

Midnight Brew said:


> "Alright lads now shake the mans hand. He is a very important man. He makes beer for the town."


Gotta love that quote...


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## Mardoo (30/3/15)

Favorite quotes from the punters:

"This is BEER?!?! Really? This is what beer is supposed to taste like? I'd drink more beer if I could get this." - girl, late 20's

"Reminds me of home." Old Scotsman in a thick brogue about the 70 shilling, walks away nodding purposefully

"Wait, you mean I can make beer like this at home?" - 30's guy

Twas a good bit of homebrewing diplomacy you did Yob. Glad to be part of it, and I'd happily do a couple of these each year.

Really, just a lovely day, and only two weirdos. Actually one of whom provided a golden moment of comedy when he poured about 20g of Simcoe pellets, put out to show people what hops look like, into his mouth and began chewing, for a very brief period. Dramatic spitting and coughing ensued. Too funny!


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## Yob (30/3/15)

too funny, I'd forgotten about that, I saw him from 10 meters away choking on the Simcoe


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## GrumpyPaul (30/3/15)

Anyone that was there on the day please keep those stories and quotes from the day coming.

When it comes time to write the article for next months MB newsletter these will be good to use for the story. (along with any photographic evidence that can be found of Yob in his skirt/kilt).


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## Yob (30/3/15)

I mostly had the camera so probably hard to find a full one..


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## GrumpyPaul (30/3/15)

Yob - now that you've had a practice run time to get onto the big events.

I can see it now a Homebrew stall a GABS or Ballarat beer festival giving out free samples.

But then again - not to sure the commercial breweries would want anyone promoting _" hey you can make better beer at home for a fraction of the cost"_ alongside them.


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## GrumpyPaul (31/3/15)

Out curiosity....

Was there anything left over in my keg of Scottish Ale?

Either way - chuffed if it was popular enough to be drained, or chuffed to get some back to drink for myself.


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## takai (31/3/15)

Out of interest, what would the legalities be of someone 'serving'/gifting people a pint while they wait for their hair to be cut (or while they are having their hair cut).

There are a couple of barbers around where I am that have started up on this.


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## GrumpyPaul (31/3/15)

Barber's and craft beer?

Would have to be the place hipsters go for a beard trim


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## DU99 (31/3/15)

did i see a can of yorkshire bitter on the table :icon_offtopic:


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## Yob (31/3/15)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Out curiosity....
> 
> Was there anything left over in my keg of Scottish Ale?
> 
> Either way - chuffed if it was popular enough to be drained, or chuffed to get some back to drink for myself.


Your keg was one on the first ones on, however, the tap it was on played up at one point early on and was pouring foam, we swapped out the keg to make sure it was the tap and not the keg, the tap came right not long after but we didn't swap yours back in, so it still has loads mate.

Re barbers, as long as it's not homebrew, it could come under an implied sale and the ATO would want their bit. If course, with the right licence anything is possible


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## GrumpyPaul (31/3/15)

Cool. another keg for the sons 30th. Will shoot you a message and swing by to pick it up in the next day or so


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## mudd (1/4/15)

takai said:


> Out of interest, what would the legalities be of someone 'serving'/gifting people a pint while they wait for their hair to be cut (or while they are having their hair cut).
> 
> There are a couple of barbers around where I am that have started up on this.


Remember something in Victorian liquor legislation that a barber doesn't need a liquor licence to serve alcohol to a customer. Its very specific to barbers/hairdressers. Weird.
Perhaps it should be an implied haircut.


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## GrumpyPaul (1/4/15)

here you go.

Butchers, Florists and B&Bs can give it away as well by the looks of it.

http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/home/liquor/exemptions+and+approvals/minor+business+exemption/


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## technobabble66 (1/4/15)

Wow. The butchers (wtf?) florists and b&b have various restrictions, whereas barbers/hairdressers do not. Basically you just need trim a hair and that's it. There's not even a mention of the obvious condition it's a primary function of the business. Surely there's scope for a serious loophole there - "each hair trimmed for $7 comes with a free beer"!


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## Yob (1/4/15)

Shhh


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## takai (1/4/15)

Those exemptions are bizarre!


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## Blind Dog (1/4/15)

technobabble66 said:


> Wow. The butchers (wtf?) florists and b&b have various restrictions, whereas barbers/hairdressers do not. Basically you just need trim a hair and that's it. There's not even a mention of the obvious condition it's a primary function of the business. Surely there's scope for a serious loophole there - "each hair trimmed for $7 comes with a free beer"!


Umm.. there is "...any liquor supplied must be complimentary (no cost) and ancillary to the provision of hairdressing services...", which is a shame as I was thinking of opening the world's 1st 200 seat barber shop...


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## Yob (1/4/15)

Specialist waxing?


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## GrumpyPaul (1/4/15)

Blind Dog said:


> Umm.. there is "...any liquor supplied must be complimentary (no cost) and ancillary to the provision of hairdressing services...", which is a shame as I was thinking of opening the world's 1st 200 seat barber shop...


With "barber pole dancers"


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## Yob (1/4/16)

So its that time of year again..

The 50th Ringwood Highland games is on this weekend and we'll be there again* giving away *about 120L of the craft..

Bummock Scotch ale (aged in whisky barrel)
Porter
Stout
-/70
Brown Ale
and even a Cider..

Will be serving from 10am  

http://www.ringwoodhighlandgames.org/programme/

See you there


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## butisitart (2/4/16)

i've got a licence to pick my own nose ($55 yr in qld) and
another that allows me to scratch my own arse with a registered utensil ($118 yr).
i had to do a tafe certificate 3 for that one.
this country sucks under the weight of its nanny / put a fee on everything crap


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## Yob (2/4/16)

I hear that.. but at the end of the day, we get to share the craft..

The Melborune Brewers club jumps for the vast majority of fees (site and insurance) and very generous folk donate kegs to the cause..

The advantages for us as a club having public exposure, in my opinion, is pricelss and ultimately can only go well for the club.

At a personal level, Im lifting exposure of quality (I hope) homebrew to a wider audience than is normally possible and I have a great time doing so... I fookin tell ya, convincing Scottish people that you are actually _*GIVING *_away beer is a hefty job in itself... but fun also.. the placard of "FREE BEER" historically has been as much as advertising as well as a shepherding device....

Also, the looks on blokes faces that are there with missus and kids... (me aslo) who pine for a snooter (or wee dram) but 'cant'... priceless..

TBH, the Liquor license fees are dead reasonable, easily done and well worth the effort (IMHO)


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## Yob (4/4/16)

So we pulled this off again yesterday, smashed it.. over 120L handed out

we ended up with

Scotch Ale %10 (barrel aged) Firm crowd favourite - Blew
Oaty Stout - %7.? (Great beer) - Blew
-/70 %3.9 - Blew
Pale ale %? - Blew
English Mild - Blew
Amber Ale (Bastard Keg)
Porter (Bastard Keg)
Apple Raspberry Cider - Blew
Mead %15 (All bottles gone)


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## droid (4/4/16)

thanks for the beer, tho i was very reserved in consumption, nice to see you guys

i reckon you could have a donation jar for the Melbourne Brewers on the table, even if it was to support beerfest or something

and i reckon a test tube for each beer placed out in front with the grains used for each beer layered in each tube would be cool

or even some bowls with grains in for chewing on

anyway good show i say!


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## Yob (4/4/16)

droid said:


> i reckon you could have a donation jar for the Melbourne Brewers on the table, even if it was to support beerfest or something
> 
> and i reckon a test tube for each beer placed out in front with the grains used for each beer layered in each tube would be cool
> 
> or even some bowls with grains in for chewing on


No "donations" are allowed, it can be construed as sales which is a big No No under the licence.

The amount of people who asked where they could buy some was truly amazing.. we'll be working on that for future years, there is definitely scope to do something for us.

We had a display table with grains, hops and yeast, could have been better presented, but generated interest anyway.

We plan to have the style guides (at least a short summery of) printed out fro folks next year among other ideas that came up over the course of the day.

Was good to see ya there man, those Bummock Shirts sure do stand out


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## droid (4/4/16)

hehe, nice sticker on ya car mate btw


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