# Hand Held Immersion Heaters / Elements



## Cortez The Killer (13/8/08)

Hi fellas 

I'm looking at getting 2 x 2400w hand held immersion heaters

And have been looking at the Tobins range here http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ClassHTML/188.htm

Specifically my question is what type ie bent vs straight with hook is more suitable for a keggle

And for the benefit of other users which type is better suited for other vessels

And are there advantages between one shape over the other

Cheers

Here's a picture of the types and dimensions


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## T.D. (13/8/08)

With the hook on the one on the right I wouldn't think there was a dramatic difference. I have a Birko one (got it from ESB) and it has a right-angle bend in the top. Its perfect for resting on something running across the top of the kettle etc, but the hook will do the same job.

Great things too - very handy. I brew solely these days with an immersion element.


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## therook (13/8/08)

T.D. said:


> With the hook on the one on the right I wouldn't think there was a dramatic difference. I have a Birko one (got it from ESB) and it has a right-angle bend in the top. Its perfect for resting on something running across the top of the kettle etc, but the hook will do the same job.
> 
> Great things too - very handy. I brew solely these days with an immersion element.




I'm with T.D on this, great thing to have.

I have the one on the right with the hook.

I have it heating my HLT before i get out of bed to mash in, if my mash in temp is a bit low i then use it to up the temp until i hit my target. I then put it in the boiler to help the gas burner get it to boiling quicker.

Rook


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## T.D. (13/8/08)

The other thing that is quite handy about these things is that you can heat the mash water directly in the mash tun. Takes an element (so to speak) of uncertainty out of the process (ie temp loss from transferring from HLT to MLT) and ever since I've been doing this I have been hitting mash temps more reliably.

But yeah, the only difference I can see from those pics (if they are to scale?) is that the one on the left will sit lower in the vessel than the one on the right (if suspended from the same height). Whether you want this or not will depend on how deep your vessel is. The lower the element sits (without touching the bottom) the better so its just a matter of doing some measurements.


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## PostModern (13/8/08)

The hook position is adjustable, so you can tune it's depth to improve convection, or to keep it off the bottom of shallower vessels. The one I have has dodgy soft brackets, tho. Will be rigging up something new.


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## T.D. (13/8/08)

Well in that case the one on the right definitely seems better. The only thing that annoys me about my one is that when I use it in different sized vessels I have to invent new gizmos to rest it on so it stays in the best position!


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## TidalPete (13/8/08)

T.D. said:


> Well in that case the one on the right definitely seems better. The only thing that annoys me about my one is that when I use it in different sized vessels I have to invent new gizmos to rest it on so it stays in the best position!



Sounds like you need a couple of timber cross-pieces & a ss "U" bolt with wing nuts TD?  

TP :beer:


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## Trough Lolly (13/8/08)

I slide an old chrome towel rod across the keggle and hook the immersion element to that with no probs...

Cheers,
TL


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## Ross (13/8/08)

The elements with the black anodised look are for hard water & better suited for brewing than the chrome finished ones.
I have the one on the left & it's a great little unit.

cheers ross


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## /// (13/8/08)

Just make sure the wiring is solid where it connects onto the top, like ROb my old one was a bit flimsy.

Can you get a longer leg on it? Standard keg depth is about 600 mm for a keg and a longer leg will obviously go further. Can be a bit of a pain if your doing standard 22l batches...

Scotty


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## Cortez The Killer (13/8/08)

I think i read some where that the 4108B is 500mm total length so i assume that'll be ok for a standard keggle

Can anyone confirm?

Cheers


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## TidalPete (13/8/08)

/// said:


> Just make sure the wiring is solid where it connects onto the top, like ROb my old one was a bit flimsy.



The new & improved models have solved that handle problem Scotty.
When I used my immersion for mashing I solved the "short length" problem in my double batches by stirring the mash with both the immersion heater & my mash paddle at the same time.  Worked like a charm.

TP :beer:


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## /// (13/8/08)

You just need a bit of water on top of these things; if they run dry they become unhappy and go bang. 

I did the mash trick and had a cake of burnt mash build up on the element. ended up giving a burnt taste to all my beers, was not nice.

Anyways, a great bit of gear...


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## TidalPete (13/8/08)

/// said:


> You just need a bit of water on top of these things; if they run dry they become unhappy and go bang.
> 
> I did the mash trick and had a cake of burnt mash build up on the element. ended up giving a burnt taste to all my beers, was not nice.
> 
> Anyways, a great bit of gear...



Spreading out the coils of the element to leave around a 6mm gap solves this problem AND don't stop stirring whatever you do.  

TP :beer:


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## reg (15/8/08)

Perhaps there would be some benefit in a bulk buy??


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## Cortez The Killer (18/8/08)

Just ordered 2 of the 4108B 

The only had one in stock and are expecting more in a couple of days

Cheers


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## BusinessTime (18/8/08)

I used one this weekend to up the temp of my mash and it worked fine, you just have to keep it moving and not let it sit heating only 1 section of the mash.


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## Cortez The Killer (5/11/08)

I finally got around to using my immersion heaters and they are amazing

Got mash + sparge water up to temp in reasonable time - 1 heater got 23 litres of sparge water from 20*C to about 95*C in 45 mins

1 heater easily had 30 odd litres boiling with a rolling boil

I calculated evaporation at a touch over 3.5 litres per hour 

So much quieter than my nasa burner - but isn't everything?

I regret not having gone electric initially / earlier

Cheers


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## raven19 (5/11/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I finally got around to using my immersion heaters and they are amazing
> 
> Got mash + sparge water up to temp in reasonable time - 1 heater got 23 litres of sparge water from 20*C to about 95*C in 45 mins
> 
> ...



Cortez,

From your previous post I assume you now have the 4108B (2400kW)?

[size=-1]4108B[/size][size=-1]2400W Hi Nickel Alloy W/Hook Imm. Heater[/size]
Question re: double batches and your thoughts on needing to up ante to 3600W or greater?

I am still assembling pieces of equipment to start AG, I have yet to purchase the burner, however maybe electrical straight away could be the go for me...?

Would appreciate your thoughts and others on this?

Cheers!


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## raven19 (5/11/08)

Also, good to hear the rolling boil went well - did you take a wort sample for taste, was there any burnt/toffee like effects from the immersion heating?


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## Cortez The Killer (5/11/08)

Yep I've got 2 of the 4108B - luckily I've got 2 separate circuits easily accessible from the brewing area

Not having done a double batch with the immerison heaters - I'd reckon you'd need more than a single 2400w - how much more I couldn't say

A 3600w will need a circuit with 15 amps running in your home

I do remember reading some where that some one was using a 2400w and a 1800w for 44L double batches and that worked well - so I imagine that 2 x 2400w would also do the trick

I did taste the wort when pitching the yeast a couple of days later - and didn't notice any burnt /off flavours - just your normal "holy crap that's bitter! ... yet somehow sweet" taste

Total brewing time was just short of 4 hours (including a stuck-ish sparge - 0.75mm is way too small a gap) so I can't say there was an increase in brewing time over the nasa

If the provision is available to go electric and you are comfortable doing so - then it may be a viable option.

Hope that helps

Cheers


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## raven19 (5/11/08)

Cheers Cortez!
I shall keep this in mind for sure.


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## FarsideOfCrazy (5/11/08)

Hi Cortez, 

This is something that interests me as i'm looking at going go straight into electric. Do you have any sort of temp controllers on those elements of are they just running full bore?


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## Cortez The Killer (5/11/08)

Full bore

I made a 26L batch tonight

Initial boil volume was 33L

Having both 2400w on was a bit much

Only having one on was just a touch more vigourous than I usually run my nasa at

I believe that some people have some sort of controller on theirs - that intermitenly turns the element on and off quickly

But i have seen some with temp controllers too

2400w is fine for upto at least 26L from expirence

Cheers


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## FarsideOfCrazy (5/11/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Full bore
> 
> I made a 26L batch tonight
> 
> ...



Thanks for that.


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## fergi (5/11/08)

what sort of price are we looking at for one of these,and where do you get them from
cheers
fergi


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## Cortez The Killer (6/11/08)

Mine came from here http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ClassHTML/188.htm

But search yellow pages for "elements" locally and you may turn something up 

Cheers


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## Fatgodzilla (6/11/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Mine came from here http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ClassHTML/188.htm
> 
> But search yellow pages for "elements" locally and you may turn something up
> 
> Cheers




I bought mine directly from Tobins and they mailed it out pretty quickly. My boiler is an old beer keg and I find if I insulate the keg (I use an old sleeping bag) the boil is very vigorous (25l - 30l boils) and takes less time to reach boiling. I suspend the element from an right angle shelving bracket and have no problems with recommending them.


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## sponge (28/11/08)

So would you recommend an element such as that over your gas burner? I have heard of using both to get the wort up to the boil asap and then only using the gas burner to keep it on a rolling boil....


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## Cortez The Killer (28/11/08)

I'm sold on electricity at the moment

The NASA does the job too - but it is loud - though you heat anything up in no time

The element is not as fast - but if you plan your time you won't be hanging around in limbo waiting for it 

Sponge if you wanna borrow my immerison heater and give it a whirl to see how it goes you are more than welcome

Cheers


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## Fatgodzilla (28/11/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I'm sold on electricity at the moment
> 
> The NASA does the job too - but it is loud - though you heat anything up in no time
> 
> ...




Take the Cortez offer. I find it doesn't take long to get the keggle boiling especially if the keg is insulated (graduated to old woollen army blanket). It keeps the boil constant and is whisper quiet (unlike me !). The convenience of the electric element over gas should convince most people and I'd recommend it to anyone.


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## eric8 (28/11/08)

Has anyone ever noticed burnt flavours when adding the hops, especially if using flowers or plugs?


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## sponge (28/11/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I'm sold on electricity at the moment
> 
> The NASA does the job too - but it is loud - though you heat anything up in no time
> 
> ...



Cheers for that Gino. I may ask for the burner for xmas then and see how it goes (because hey, it doesnt hurt to have one laying around anyways, especially when we've got a 4WD'ing trip coming up in january) and then compare it to the element, because if it works pretty well then I may just invest in one.


Thanks again, Sponge


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## jimi (28/11/08)

I'm presently a little worried my immersion el may have caramelised my wert a bit, but I take it that it's not a common suspicion and I can't recall anyone having a similar complaint (??)
I have a 2400w immersion and I usually just use it to get the boil up quickly and the sparge water. However the last batch I did I had two bottles of gas run out on me (spare was being used on bbq) and I had to rely on the immersion for much of the boil. 
The batch has come out a bit darker than the specs indicated which isn't good for a pale lagers appearance. It's still fermenting now so there's not yet a definitive answer as to whether its caramelised my beer as well or not. I'll report back. For the record it was a 90min boil and I reckon the immersion had to do it all for about 30min.


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## Fatgodzilla (28/11/08)

jimi said:


> I'm presently a little worried my immersion el may have caramelised my wert a bit, but I take it that it's not a common suspicion and I can't recall anyone having a similar complaint.



No one has these suspicions cos it doesn't happen ????

But now you have me thinking .......................

Caramelisation is essentially the burning of sugar in the cooking process. I guess there is an argument for saying the sugar in the wort is burnt by the element, but I would assume the constant boil would move the "sugar" away from the elements before caramalisation can take place. But could this happen before the boil takes place. 

Why do people make you think on Fridays ???



Edit : Nah. I do 90 minute boils with my element and have not noticed a caramelisation effect. My pales and kolsches have stayed pale.


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## FarsideOfCrazy (28/11/08)

jimi said:


> I'm presently a little worried my immersion el may have caramelised my wert a bit, but I take it that it's not a common suspicion and I can't recall anyone having a similar complaint (??)
> I have a 2400w immersion and I usually just use it to get the boil up quickly and the sparge water. However the last batch I did I had two bottles of gas run out on me (spare was being used on bbq) and I had to rely on the immersion for much of the boil.
> The batch has come out a bit darker than the specs indicated which isn't good for a pale lagers appearance. It's still fermenting now so there's not yet a definitive answer as to whether its caramelised my beer as well or not. I'll report back. For the record it was a 90min boil and I reckon the immersion had to do it all for about 30min.



Isn't there something about the watts per square cm rating, (or something like that). That can have an effect on this so called scorching?


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## Cortez The Killer (18/3/09)

I'll post this time calculator here for an immersion heater / electric element

I pinched this from somewhere on this forum - but have never been able to find it again - so I apologise to whoever set it up

Basically enter you volume, wattage, start and finishing temps and inefficiency (10% seems about right from experience) - and it'll give you a heating time 

Cheers 

View attachment Electric_Element_Heating_Time_Calculator.xls


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## crundle (16/6/09)

Thanks for posting the heating time calculator Cortez,

I have just bought a 4108B immersion element, should arrive in a few days. I am hoping that the issue with where the lead enters the unit have been fixed by now in the manufacturing process, but if it hasn't does anyone have photos of what they have done to fix the problem? 

I gather it is just a matter of using an epoxy to fill the area where the lead enters the main unit, but I don't have mine here yet to look it over.

What is the consensus with these units as far as how to sit them over the keggle, hanging from the side or from a bar or similar going over the keggle? I could imagine that being mounted on the side of the keggle would limit the amount of steam that the lead area is exposed to, but perhaps this position is not the best for circulation of the wort during the boil?

thanks for any help,

Crundle


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## PostModern (16/6/09)

crundle said:


> I have just bought a 4108B immersion element, should arrive in a few days. I am hoping that the issue with where the lead enters the unit have been fixed by now in the manufacturing process, but if it hasn't does anyone have photos of what they have done to fix the problem?



They have extended the insulation from the handle to about 40mm along the cable with a flexible sheath, in the same moulding as the handle. Looks better than my old one, which arced in the handle and went BANG one day!


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## Cortez The Killer (16/6/09)

crundle said:


> What is the consensus with these units as far as how to sit them over the keggle, hanging from the side or from a bar or similar going over the keggle? I could imagine that being mounted on the side of the keggle would limit the amount of steam that the lead area is exposed to, but perhaps this position is not the best for circulation of the wort during the boil?


I used to hang mine in the middle on a rod but now just hang over the side. My keggle has camping mat wrapped around it to insulate. I get a pretty good rolling boil with it in at least 30L.

I've been meaning to make some thing to shield the connector on the heater from the steam - but am yet to get around to it

Can't say that my immersion heaters show any sign of coming apart

Cheers


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## Yeastie Beastie (22/5/10)

Trough Lolly said:


> I slide an old chrome towel rod across the keggle and hook the immersion element to that with no probs...
> 
> Cheers,
> TL



I was thinking of doing the same with the one im about to buy.

Does the steam affect the the electrical connection at the top of the element?


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## Hogan (22/5/10)

Yeastie Beastie said:


> I was thinking of doing the same with the one im about to buy.
> 
> Does the steam affect the the electrical connection at the top of the element?



No, it's a sealed unit.


Cheers, Hoges.


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## Yob (17/10/11)

_necro_

so after much reading and wandering out the back to have a look at the setup I think Ive decided to go down this road.. 

one of the above mentioned immersion elements for the HLT which will be one of these rubberised ones which should cut back a few hassles like insulating it.





I like the idea of having it on a timer/temp control from early morning and have got a STC1000 box already wired for it. Ive got the 3 ring burner/med reg for the SS Keggle.. (maybe + the element to get to boil quicker)

question is how big to make the opening in the top? 
just big enough to get in to clean? 
It's just the HLT right? 
I had good success cutting a SS one to fit a 20lt pot lid (almost perfect by eye  ) ... I do know it's someones birthday coming up and I might be able to stretch the love to get a dremmel tool thingy and the element ... mebee.. h34r:

then all I have to do is remove enough rubber low down to cut a hole and fit a weldless fitting... I assume you have to take the element out quickly and into a bucket or something when volumes get down in the HLT?


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## raven19 (18/10/11)

iamozziyob said:


> question is how big to make the opening in the top?
> just big enough to get in to clean?
> It's just the HLT right?



Yup! My HLT has a relatively small lid opening at the top. It rarely needs a clean as its only heating water.



iamozziyob said:


> I assume you have to take the element out quickly and into a bucket or something when volumes get down in the HLT?



I just flick the HLT power off towards the end of the sparge.

The immersion elements cool quite quickly when removed from hot liquid.


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## Yob (19/10/11)

Fatgodzilla said:


> I bought mine directly from Tobins and they mailed it out pretty quickly



+1 to this, _*AND*_ he quoted me trade price as well... great deal



raven19 said:


> Yup! My HLT has a relatively small lid opening at the top. It rarely needs a clean as its only heating water.
> I just flick the HLT power off towards the end of the sparge.


 :icon_cheers: 
now.. where did I put that rubberised keg and the cheapo dremel kit 

Yob


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