# 1st All-Grain brew day - complete!



## Crouch (15/8/14)

So with my electric brewery finished and ready to go I set about today on my very first all-grain brew. The day did not go without problems but in the end I have 42L of APA in the fermentation fridge that looks, smells and tastes amazing!

I tested the system several times, re-did valves and bulkheads and water tested it twice ... but somehow on brew day I had leaks, very small ones but leaks! After so much testing and prep work I was a little annoyed.

I made some mistakes with temperatures and valves, forgetting to close them before removing hoses etc .. but luckily my brew-room has an in-ground drain so spills and cleaning weren't really a big issue.

Most of my target vs actual numbers were pretty close:

Boil Volume target was 57.8L, I got 54 into the kettle before the MT & HLT were empty - I swear I had enough water for my sparge but will double check my calcuations for next time. I added a little extra water to the kettle to make up the volume.

Estimated pre-boil gravity target was 1.044. I got 1.047 so pretty close and was happy with that.

I didn't measure the post boil volume but the target was 46.8L. I know I was over that as I had setup in Beersmith my boil-off rate at 11L but with the PID's I was able to 'tone down' how vigorously the boil happened so didnt lose that much to evaporation. I'll need to do another water test to calculate the boil-off rate with the adjusted PID settings.

Est Post Boil gravity target was 1.056 and I hit 1.058 so once again was well happy!

My target was 42L into the fermenter and I made that, with some extra in the kettle (again due to reduced boil off) but left that as I forgot to add my hop filter so didn't want to suck up to much trub/hop etc.

All in all a great day! I've kept some of the spent grain to make some bread and some treats for my dog. I'm looking forward to brewing again on the weekend!

Here's my fermenter in its little fridge hooked up to a cheap one-relay STC knock-off (I'll grab an enclosure and some cable glands from Jaycar tomorrow and do it up properly!). At the moment its hooked up to a hair dryer as the heating source, but I'll also grab a heating mat tomorrow to replace that. I don't expect to need to cool the fridge as its quite cold down the back of the warehouse so is only set to heat ... 19C.

Cheers :chug:


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## Kingy (15/8/14)

Top effort mate! It's a full time job ya first couple of grain brews. Fun and rewarding. 
As time consuming as it is i hang out to brew beer. I'm doing 2 x46litre batches on Saturday. It's meant to rain here to so it's all weekend in the shed brewing, kegging,cleaning, sampling, lol.


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## Tahoose (15/8/14)

Sounds like a pretty successful brewday, minus the couple of leaks.


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## slcmorro (15/8/14)

Not sold on the hairdryer for heating. That'd use a shitload of power, and any dust/husks etc sucked into the element is a big fire hazard. Saw you were getting a heat mat to replace it, but be really careful buddy.


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## Donske (15/8/14)

I'd be getting worried about now mate, surely a first AG brew day where you were 2 points over estimated OG will anger the beer gods.

Also, top effort jumping in head first, double batch electric rig for your first system is pretty cool.


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## technobabble66 (15/8/14)

Looks great! Seems like a relatively trouble free brew day - which is a massive success for your first AG brew, leaks aside. 
At a guess, I'd think your loss of volume from the mash will be grain absorption. What ratio/factor did you use to calculate that? I use 1L per kg, but I suspect I should be really using something like 1.2-1.5L per Kg. For your double batch, that diff would account for 2-5L extra losses. Then there's liquid left behind in the dead space under your tap (I assume you calc'd that from your dry runs tho). 
Welcome to the AG Vortex! :lol:


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## Crouch (15/8/14)

For anyone interested in watching a 30 minute video .... haha, my highlight is at ~1.35 when 'brew baby' makes an appearance

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMChycY3mnk[/media]

Thanks for the comments! I did some quick reading about hairdryers in fermentation fridges as it didnt feel right and after said reading I unplugged it. The fridge dropped 1.1C over night, but I'll be grabbing either a heat mat, or a ceramic heating lamp from the pet store today (I ordered some cheap ones from ebay but they will take ages to get here)

Brewing again on Saturday (hopefully) and really looking forward to it!


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## Adr_0 (15/8/14)

slcmorro said:


> Not sold on the hairdryer for heating. That'd use a shitload of power, and any dust/husks etc sucked into the element is a big fire hazard. Saw you were getting a heat mat to replace it, but be really careful buddy.



Yeah, not the greatest idea. Do you need it? Can you set your temp a touch higher and maybe have a small hysteresis? 

Congrats on the great brew day!


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## Adr_0 (15/8/14)

slcmorro said:


> Not sold on the hairdryer for heating. That'd use a shitload of power, and any dust/husks etc sucked into the element is a big fire hazard. Saw you were getting a heat mat to replace it, but be really careful buddy.



Yeah, not the greatest idea. Do you need it? Can you set your temp a touch higher and maybe have a small hysteresis? 

Congrats on the great brew day!


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## Donske (15/8/14)

technobabble66 said:


> Looks great! Seems like a relatively trouble free brew day - which is a massive success for your first AG brew, leaks aside.
> At a guess, I'd think your loss of volume from the mash will be grain absorption. What ratio/factor did you use to calculate that? I use 1L per kg, but I suspect I should be really using something like 1.2-1.5L per Kg. For your double batch, that diff would account for 2-5L extra losses. Then there's liquid left behind in the dead space under your tap (I assume you calc'd that from your dry runs tho).
> Welcome to the AG Vortex! :lol:


I'm not sure grain absorption is that high, I use the default 0.9L/kg in brew mate and I'd say its pretty close, apart from the rare issue with losses my volumes are dialled in to about +/- 1L, maybe I'm accounting for the losses elsewhere, I'll know in the next month or so when I have enough data points from brew days to be sure (currently measuring volume at every stage of a brew day to get the system dialled in).


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## pilgrimspiss (15/8/14)

Sweet Rig and video Viv!!

I actually watched your video!! You're an entertaining bloke!! 

Leaks always happen. When you water test you tend to open all your taps full. Then when you run them at 1/2 or 1/4 on your brew day you put back pressure on your seals and they leak!! ARGH!!

Looks like you've put a lot of thought into it though. Good work mate!!

Cheers
Matty


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## sjp770 (15/8/14)

Just watched the vid, its great! The hoses look like a must, i was going with barbs which sounds stupid now... 

After all the faffing about with the pumps and valves did you end up just opening the feed and return sides 100% and restricting with the ball valve on the pump only?

Might be worth labeling the pumps too.


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## mofox1 (15/8/14)

Good work! It's so rewarding to be able to use it, and not just think about what's not working yet.

I've used 1L/kg as my absorption rate... Seems to work fine. Always have extra in the HLT, not only does it safe guard against running out, but it caters for being able to flush out lines while brewing and you also have a readily available amount of hot water to clean with art the end. 

Glad your unplugged that hair dryer... as well as being dangerous it's also going to heat to fast. I use a desk lamp with a 40 or 60w globe sitting under my wooden support shelf (check my gallery pics). Heats nice and slowly. The temp probe is blutacked to the fermenter with some polystyrene sheet taped over the top so it measures the fermenter temp accurately (as accurately as a stc1000 will do anyway).

Anyway, fantastic work. I must check out the video when I've got time.

Prost!


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## panzerd18 (15/8/14)

Love the control box. So many flashing and digital things, looks so professional and fun.

Just a quick observation, you may be getting a bit of heat loss through the metal table. You could possibly rest the pots on a foam matting to help insulate against the heat loss and allow you to heat quicker.


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## panzerd18 (15/8/14)

Just finished watching, that setup is friggin awesome! You have a floor drain and sink, clean area, you could become a nano-brewery and go commercial!


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## Dan Pratt (15/8/14)

top stuff on your first AG brew, hope she taste great.

I'm so glad you unplugged that hairdryer.......for the love of god that could of been bad.


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## Crouch (15/8/14)

Pratty1 said:


> top stuff on your first AG brew, hope she taste great.
> 
> I'm so glad you unplugged that hairdryer.......for the love of god that could of been bad.


Yeah I was worried about it when i was wiring it up and then after reading other threads and unplugging it, I felt comfortable to go to bed!

I picked up a ceramic heating light (as per recommendations in other threads) that I'll feel comfortable having running unattended.

Cheers


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## mofox1 (15/8/14)

Crouch said:


> Yeah I was worried about it when i was wiring it up and then after reading other threads and unplugging it, I felt comfortable to go to bed!
> 
> I picked up a ceramic heating light (as per recommendations in other threads) that I'll feel comfortable having running unattended.
> 
> Cheers


Slight :icon_offtopic:... What sort of heat lamp did you pick up (and $'s)? I'd prefer to regain my desk lamp for needed gargage lighting, and I was thinking along the same lines.


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## Crouch (15/8/14)

mofox1 said:


> Slight :icon_offtopic:... What sort of heat lamp did you pick up (and $'s)? I'd prefer to regain my desk lamp for needed gargage lighting, and I was thinking along the same lines.


I'll grab a picture of it when I get back home .. but it was around $33, the globe was on special reduced from $22 to $10. You can find them much cheaper on ebay, I bought 2 of these as well but they will be for the larger multi-fermenter space and wont be here for a few weeks anyway. The one I picked up from the pet store did not have the clip on type holder so will need to be mounted onto/into something - I'm thinking some sheet metal I have laying around, maybe some MDF.


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## Mr B (15/8/14)

Nice vid, very interesting and entertaining 

Couple of q's - What size were your pots? Is that an available controller design setup?

Cheers


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## Crouch (15/8/14)

Mr B said:


> Nice vid, very interesting and entertaining
> 
> Couple of q's - What size were your pots? Is that an available controller design setup?
> 
> Cheers


The HLT and BK are 71 litres, the MT is 83L. I had the HLT setup before I bought that mash tun otherwise I would have used them the other way around. Would have been better to have the larger volume for the HLT ... oh well, knowing me it wont be long before I start tinkering with the setup again.

The control panel was built by me following the design available from theelectricbrewery.com. They have a kit you can buy so you dont need to worry about finding all the parts yourself, but when I enquired they were not supplying them to Australia due to high demand. From memory the kit cost around US$1400, according to my parts/prices list mine cost ~$500 ... but I did go cheaper on some of the components like the Sestos PIDs instead of Auberin etc.


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## Mr B (15/8/14)

Thanks for prompt reply

Interesting stuff, and from the perspective of a person new to all grain, great rundown on everything

Hope (and expect) the beer tastes great, and good luck with the pesky leaks

Cheers


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## Crouch (15/8/14)

Mr B said:


> Thanks for prompt reply
> 
> Interesting stuff, and from the perspective of a person new to all grain, great rundown on everything
> 
> ...


Hahaha, I'm hoping to brew again this weekend so we'll see how we go. I got the tools out and was tightening up things during the brew, I probably should strip everything out and clean all the threads (given there is now sticky wort everywhere) properly and put everything back in though ... but that will be fun with a beer in hand!


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## CoopsOz (15/8/14)

Great video Crouch, very entertaining. I love watching other people make the same mistakes I do. You handle your mistakes a whole lot better than me though.


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## funnelweb (16/8/14)

Crouch said:


> So with my electric brewery finished and ready to go I set about today on my very first all-grain brew. The day did not go without problems but in the end I have 42L of APA in the fermentation fridge that looks, smells and tastes amazing!
> 
> I tested the system several times, re-did valves and bulkheads and water tested it twice ... but somehow on brew day I had leaks, very small ones but leaks! After so much testing and prep work I was a little annoyed.
> 
> ...


WOW! Since this is Your first all-grain i must say that you're not low on equipment ;-)

Best regards Folke

(Denmark)


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## lael (16/8/14)

Great video! Also curious about your pots - where did you get them and how much were they?


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers (17/8/14)

Wow - I thought I was clinical with my organisation...

Great video mate and glad you had success getting it into the fermenter. My brewery is much more clandestine than that - As others have said, you soon get to know your system and tweaks will be made.

Seems like your biggest hurdle was getting that sparge water to the temp you want it at. I would suggest ramping your sparge water temp at least 2 degrees.. its pretty safe below 80 to sparge, others say even higher, but I'm usually sparging at around 75-78ish.

It will be a heck of a system when you are familiar with it - Looks like you had a stack of fun - the most fun one can have alone lol!

Don't beat yourself up about a few leaks here and there - as much as you can try there will always be areas that will not be an exact science. I use an urn for boiling water and it has a slight leak on the tap.. usually I can make up the difference by adding another litre of water to the recipe.. once again, something you get used to the more you brew!

One other tip, I didn't see exactly where you pitched the brew bright - I generally find its good to dilute it with a bit of water **right** before throwing it in as it gunks up quickly if left - I usually do that at 10mins before flame out and mash up any clumps in the wort - it is still effective thrown in dry, just find it tends to clump a bit more...

Are you going to bottle at that 50L or keg? That will be a biiig bottling party lol.


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## TheWiggman (17/8/14)

So much enthusiasm. Now I'll be reading all your posts in your voice. Think I've said it before, but good gear and you're a very lucky bloke with that dedicated area. Uneventful first brew all things considered, it'll be seamless before you know it. 
Suggestion - why don't you heat up your strike water in the boiler? Get the HLT 2°C or so above mash temp for your HERMS, and then underlet your liquor to the mash from the boiler. That way you're ready to go off the bat. 
I'm betting you'll get a drier beer than expected, but I think it'll be so many light years ahead of your previous brews it wouldn't even be notable.


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## 431neb (17/8/14)

Interesting content. Thanks for posting. Very enthusiastic!


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## Crouch (17/8/14)

storeboughtcheeseburgers said:


> One other tip, I didn't see exactly where you pitched the brew bright - I generally find its good to dilute it with a bit of water **right** before throwing it in as it gunks up quickly if left - I usually do that at 10mins before flame out and mash up any clumps in the wort - it is still effective thrown in dry, just find it tends to clump a bit more...
> 
> Are you going to bottle at that 50L or keg? That will be a biiig bottling party lol.


I pitched the brewbrite with the 10min hop addition ... I didn't mix it with water though, other threads I was reading about did suggest doing that too so will give that a shot on the next brewday.

It will go into 2 kegs, plus a few bottles just for the sake of it 




TheWiggman said:


> So much enthusiasm. Now I'll be reading all your posts in your voice. Think I've said it before, but good gear and you're a very lucky bloke with that dedicated area. Uneventful first brew all things considered, it'll be seamless before you know it.
> Suggestion - why don't you heat up your strike water in the boiler? Get the HLT 2°C or so above mash temp for your HERMS, and then underlet your liquor to the mash from the boiler. That way you're ready to go off the bat.
> I'm betting you'll get a drier beer than expected, but I think it'll be so many light years ahead of your previous brews it wouldn't even be notable.


I can only use one element at a time, they draw ~24amps and are on a 32amp circuit ... so its either heating the HLT or the BK. I guess I could heat up the HLT first, then heat the BK and undelet that into the MT once at temp and switch back to the HLT which would have only dropped a few degrees whilst the striker water was heating in the BK ...


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## Adr_0 (17/8/14)

Awesome video and setup. Great job getting your first brew in and hope Sat went well. 

You should be able to get some 3/4“ inside x 1/2" thick insulation (black foam 'spaghetti sticks 1m long) at Bunnings. You picked that up though. 

Since you are all electric, you should insulate your vessels, particularly the mash tun.

You could also install a switch on the HLT element to go from "HLT control" to "mash tun control". This should give you better ramp times and set point maintenance, but you will get more overshoot. You can help this by slowing the pump speed as you approach the set temperature, or with a solid auto - tune. This is where the 'D' in PID comes into it, but it's hard to fiddle with it unless you know what you're doing. 

Happy brewing...


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## Crouch (17/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> Awesome video and setup. Great job getting your first brew in and hope Sat went well.
> 
> You should be able to get some 3/4“ inside x 1/2" thick insulation (black foam 'spaghetti sticks 1m long) at Bunnings. You picked that up though.
> 
> ...


I'm really torn between insulating the MT with some insulating foil and then wood - they look beautiful from the ones I have seen, and very old world'ish, but then I'm hiding all the SS ... which at this point still has a lot of bling factor for me! Though from a practical perspective it would be more efficient as you mentioned, and with a nice timber (need to do some research on the best wood for the job) it will still look awesome!

I have loads to learn about PID's!!

Cheers


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## Adr_0 (17/8/14)

Crouch said:


> I'm really torn between insulating the MT with some insulating foil and then wood - they look beautiful from the ones I have seen, and very old world'ish, but then I'm hiding all the SS ... which at this point still has a lot of bling factor for me! Though from a practical perspective it would be more efficient as you mentioned, and with a nice timber (need to do some research on the best wood for the job) it will still look awesome!
> 
> I have loads to learn about PID's!!
> 
> Cheers


Wood would be sexy, wouldn't it? 

If you are going to, foam with wood on top would be about a million times more effective than foil underneath the wood. Foil is good for reducing heat loss from radiation, but doesn't do anything for contact or air circulation heat losses . And it with be doing zero with a dark layer of wood over the top (though the wood will do a bit) .


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## panzerd18 (17/8/14)

Insulation like this?


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## Adr_0 (17/8/14)

panzerd18 said:


> Insulation like this?


As long as there is something under the foil, eg foam. As you have it there the foil is on the outside (not hidden under dark wood) so being shiny it won't radiate a lot (good).


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## panzerd18 (17/8/14)

Would this work?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SILVER-FOIL-BUBBLE-WRAP-INSULATION-3-SQ-M-750-MM-WIDE-FREE-SHIPPING-/350465385259?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Construction_Building_Materials_Hardware&hash=item51995d632b&_uhb=1


Scrap that its only rated to 82c


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## Adr_0 (17/8/14)

There are a few links floating around here for insulation people have used for kettles/mash tuns.

Being electric and a mash tun (<90°C) you have lots of options: I would say anything from a K-Mart yoga mat up to your top $$ stuff would work a treat. I would be leaning towards the yoga mat, and they come in some great colours...

When you have a fired kettle or you're up at 100°C the options are probably more limited. Something 'fire proof' generally means that it will not CATCH fire when heated; it doesn't mean it won't melt into delicious vinyl molasses when you put fire onto it. But if you can shield it from the flames of hell, it should be ok... i.e. a ring shield directly around your burner with a fairly tight/no gap - maybe a few slots to stop gas accumulating.

Or you can build a shield into your brew sculpture another way (again just talking burners here): e.g. cutting a burner-sized hole in your sculpture with the pot sitting flush on it. Then insulate around the sides with your weapon of choice applied with one of the good Silastic (Dow Corning) engineering silicones and strap it up for a few days while it cures.


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## sjp770 (17/8/14)

How long are you fermenting for? Keen to see the results


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## sjp770 (17/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> You could also install a switch on the HLT element to go from "HLT control" to "mash tun control". This should give you better ramp times and set point maintenance, but you will get more overshoot. You can help this by slowing the pump speed as you approach the set temperature, or with a solid auto - tune. This is where the 'D' in PID comes into it, but it's hard to fiddle with it unless you know what you're doing.
> 
> Happy brewing...


I was considering that on the same type of panel. A switch to change the PID controlling the SSR.


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## Adr_0 (17/8/14)

sjp770 said:


> I was considering that on the same type of panel. A switch to change the PID controlling the SSR.


Yes, and that way you have two separate PID controllers controlling two separate systems which have different characteristics. But this is also why RIMS with an immersion heater is so good - direct control of the wort without the lag of a bit pot of water. 

Anyway, as above it has its pluses and minuses which you just need to be aware of. 

The BK should be controlled in manual IMO: just 70-100% output until it hits boiling temp, then whatever output (10-50%) to keep the boil you want. Should give awesome boil off consistency that way.


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## Crouch (17/8/14)

sjp770 said:


> How long are you fermenting for? Keen to see the results


It's gone off like a rocket, I had to add a blow off tube as it was blowing the liquid out of the airlock every 10 minutes! I've never really done a lot of 'primary to secondary' fermentation, so will probably just leave it for 14 days. Dry-hop around day 10 for 4 days.


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## sjp770 (17/8/14)

Nice. My first will be a APA, 2 grain but only citra hops. I was told 15c for 2 weeks, 18c for 1 day, 0c before transferring to keg for force carb.


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## Crouch (17/8/14)

I've tried to keep mine around 18-19 ... I will increase it by a few degrees towards to end of fermentation to help the yeast wake up and clean up the diacetyl. I wasn't going to worry about cold crashing, but seeings I have it in a fridge I might as well


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## Crouch (24/8/14)

Sad day ... went to dry hop my first AG brew tonight, and its with a heavy heart I declare this brew infected! Definite mold or some such shit growing on top, it smells funky and tastes even worse. I think I know what I did wrong so will be twice as attentive next brew. Out of home-brew and my first batch of what should have been a wonderful all grain brew going down the sink ... what a shame


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## sjp770 (24/8/14)

Sorry to hear that  what do you think it was?


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## beercus (24/8/14)

Tough break, hope you work out the source


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## Edak (25/8/14)

Any photos? What did you do wrong?


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## sjp770 (22/10/14)

Hey Viv, hope all is well. Did you have a second crack at a brew yet? My first was a drinkable failure but the second is looking good, fingers crossed, and I'll transfer this arvo.


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## Droopy Brew (22/10/14)

Crouch said:


> Sad day ... went to dry hop my first AG brew tonight, and its with a heavy heart I declare this brew infected! Definite mold or some such shit growing on top, it smells funky and tastes even worse. I think I know what I did wrong so will be twice as attentive next brew. Out of home-brew and my first batch of what should have been a wonderful all grain brew going down the sink ... what a shame


That sux mate. Where do you think you went wrong?
I just completed my first AG on the weekend and thinking back there were a couple of things I think I did wrong such as not squeeze the air out of the cube, pitching yeast a bit high, allowing (fairly briefly) some direct sunlight onto the brew (need to change the time of day I brew) etc. More concerned I may have oxidised rather than infected touch wood.


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## Crouch (22/10/14)

I dropped a SS spoon (on the floor) I used earlier in the brew day ... I brew in my warehouse/workshop and I try to keep the floor clean, but no doubt there would have been dirt, dog hair, and saw dust on that spoon. I thought I didnt need it again so picked it up and put it on the bench without cleaning it ... that was the mistake. later in the brew day I needed a spoon ... and guess which one I grabbed! That can be the only source of infection I can think of, everything else (aside from the completely new AG setup!) was done just as I have been doing for years with k&k and extract brewing. 

Brewed again today (a long break!) and this brew day went much smoother ... cleanup was a bitch though, so glad I have those in floor drains!


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## sjp770 (22/10/14)

Glad you're back on the horse


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