# Cube Malting



## dent (23/8/13)

Since my stocks have been getting used up by the keg lately, I figured I'd go back to no chilling for one evening and crank out a 60 litre batch of non threatening paleish ale over three cubes. I got to thinking about the lack of variety anticipated as a result, and figured I'd at least put some extra hops in one cube. Then it occurred to me, why not put some specialty malt in one of the other cubes - basically a steeping operation just like old timey extract days.

Has anyone else given this a go? I figured I can risk one cube on the experiment. There doesn't seem to be much against it.

I guess there is maaaybe more likelihood of infection, but really, this is a no chill operation and we expect heat to kill things. I took care not to leave any grain dust around the outside of cube lid and thread. Astringency should hopefully not be an issue since the pH will stay low enough. Probably I will cop some starch haze for a while, hopefully this will drop out. I wouldn't try making cubes of different coloured pilsener this way, that's for sure.

So I double crushed up 250g of pale choc malt - make this cube some kind of porter - and jammed it in. I'll report back in a week or two when it has fermented out and we'll see how it goes.


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## barls (23/8/13)

just thinking your going to end up with some funky sours as theres all sorts of bacteria living on the husks of grain.


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## Thefatdoghead (23/8/13)

Great way to change it up when your brewing 60 liter batches. Although I would save some wort from the batch and use that to steep your spec or roast malt in.
Then add it to your wort on pitching day.
Just read the rest of your post. If you get away with it without it getting infected ill be very surprised. The heat will kill anything on the outside of the grain but everything on the inside will thrive in there. Send us a few pics of your swollen cube when it comes time.


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## dent (23/8/13)

> theres all sorts of bacteria living on the husks of grain.


Clearly there is, or at least was, until they were killed by fire.


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## dent (23/8/13)

I'm pretty sure the heat can penetrate the one or two millimeters of soggy grain chunk enough to kill whatever lies within.


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## bum (23/8/13)

Never heard anyone advise that grain steepings should be pasteurised rather than boiled. Will be very interesting to see where this goes. Be sure to keep us updated, dent.


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## barls (23/8/13)

dent said:


> Clearly there is, or at least was, until they were killed by fire.


the ones in the roselare bend can survive over 80 degrees, found this out the hard way.
just making a point.


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## dent (23/8/13)

I just don't see it happening, you know? Unless my calculations are way off, putting 20L of boiling wort into a 1.3kg container of HDPE at room temp reduces the temperature of the wort by about 4 degrees. I preheated the silicon hose to feed it in. I guess I should consider the specific heat of the added grain but it will be negligible I expect. I probably lose more heat from the mouth of the kettle, and radiated from the hose while I am waiting for it to drain.

Hell, look at the experiments from our mate Braukaiser with adding unboiled mash wort to ferments for extra enzymes - that is way more courageous.


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## manticle (24/8/13)

How did you contain the grain? I regularly add steeped, boiled grain runnings to already fermenting brews. Be interesting to see how this goes.


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## Edak (24/8/13)

Sounds interesting, good luck with that. Next time decoction might give you the maltiness you desire.


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## Edak (24/8/13)

Oh wait, I now get what you are trying to do. Ignore previous suggestion.


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## Ross (24/8/13)

I see little risk with this method (specialty grain does not have the bacteria content of base grain), but if you want to take out the risk & avoid the grains potentially sitting in the cube for a long period, just add the grains to your last 20L in the kettle & simmer gently for 10 mins before transferring.


Cheers Ross


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## mmmyummybeer (24/8/13)

The specialty grain may not have any bacteria on it but how are you going to crush it. Unless your lucky enough to have another grain mill for specialty grain. if its crushed in the same mill used for the base grain, you could be a cross contamination issue. I haven't had a lot of experience with steeping, but couldn't you do separate steeps and then boil to kill any micro's and add the mix or mixes to the cube. You could probable add different hops to the mix as well or roasted grains as well. You could even probable prepare it whilst still doing the original mash.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/13)

Why not steep the grains then boil then add to cube.


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## dent (24/8/13)

Yeah it did occur to me this morning I could have just added the grains to the kettle after filling the first cube - but then the contact time will then not be as long, which will possibly decrease the flavour value of the addition. Plus I liked the idea of the possible variety being limited to the number of cubes - in the kettle one would be limited to wort A, wort A+grainsB, wortA+grainsB+grainsC etc. 

But yeah, grains in kettle is a good idea.



> The specialty grain may not have any bacteria on it but how are you going to crush it.


I consider all grain to be loaded with infectious bacteria, specialty or not.


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## dent (24/8/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Why not steep the grains then boil then add to cube.


Sure that would work great, but I enjoy a minimal effort plan.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/13)

Takes bugger all effort with a better result. You only need to boil for 5mins.


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## jyo (24/8/13)

Should be interesting. Considering the amount of threads that have popped here where new brewers have just steeped specialty grains and not actually boiled the resulting wort, without managing to pick up an infection, chances are you will be fine.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/8/13)

An experiment in the true Bassendean style, push those boundaries.
Nev


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## QldKev (24/8/13)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> An experiment in the true Bassendean style, push those boundaries.
> Nev


and one that doesn't involve a flagon or petrol :huh:


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## dent (24/8/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Takes bugger all effort with a better result. You only need to boil for 5mins.


Yeah you're probably right. Probably just putting some grains in a regular $10 woolies kettle would work pretty well actually, and just about as lazy.


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## QldKev (24/8/13)

I'd be bringing the wort to the boil just in case.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/13)

dent said:


> Yeah you're probably right. Probably just putting some grains in a regular $10 woolies kettle would work pretty well actually, and just about as lazy.


Mmmm


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## dent (2/9/13)

OK results are in.

I poured this cube in the fermenter with a litre or two of nottingham slurry, and fermented it capped to 20 psi or so over four days ranging from 16 to 22 degrees, then chilled and filtered since I needed a keg for another gathering.

The beer turned out great. The choc malt came out beautifully, with a malt aroma that is actually a lot more prominent than I usually get. The dark malt character was refined and not at all harsh. The beer was clearly in the porter category in the end. It was enjoyed by many and down the keg was sucked.

So I consider the experiment a success so far. I will have to compare this sometime with the post-no-chill steeping method in a kitchen kettle or whatever - I wonder if the extra time the grain has spent with the wort makes a difference to the end result. But, in the meantime, I brewed another big batch, and one cube has some Dingeman's Aromatic, and another with some dark crystal. 

These will also get some more time sitting around before pitching, so those of you waiting for me to enjoy some swollen cubes will get your chance.


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## dent (30/11/13)

OK here's the swollen cube update - no swollen cubes. All were eventually fermented out and, save for one which I only pitched a couple days ago, have turned into excellent beers (the aromatic was particularly good). 

So I'm doing four more cubes today.


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## black_labb (1/12/13)

For a while I was doing double batches and would treat the 2 cubes differently. Regularly I would cube hop them drastically differently, sometimes I would add Steeped specialty malts or adjuncts (belgian candy sugar) and add during the fermentation. I did a Dubbel and an american IPA in one batch by using a lot of cube hopping highish AA hops in the IPA and steeping spec malts into the Dubbel. Of course they used different yeasts. I won a comp with a black rye IPA that I brewed 2 cubes of. The first I brewed and tasted; I decided what I needed to do to make the second one just perfect and did just that using steeping of spec grains and boiling up some more late hops as well as adding some belgian candy sugar. It really worked out well.

I've often added spec grains at the end of the mash instead of the begining. I find that they come across smoother but more flavoursome at the same time. The enzymes in the mash break down different starches, complex sugars and carbohydrates, why wouldn't they be breaking down the complex sugars in the spec malts we go through so much effort in getting there in the first place?


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## jyo (1/12/13)

Awesome experiment, dent. It's always good to know we homebrewers have some other tricks to add to our repertoire.


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## dent (1/12/13)

I guess it's possible that there is a enzymatic change to the coloured malt flavours in the mash. Seems plenty of old timey english brewers put black malt directly in the kettle. They weren't into crystal malts in those days. The porter I tried this method with was pretty good. When brewing imperial stouts I have started putting the black malts in end-mash since the large quantity of dark malt screws up the pH; I'm not interested in putting carbonates in there.


Thanks jyo. You'll be happy to know that this method seems to have no effect on the haziness of the beer. So you've got nothing to worry about.


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## jyo (1/12/13)

dent said:


> Thanks jyo. You'll be happy to know that this method seems to have no effect on the haziness of the beer. So you've got nothing to worry about.


Now, now! My offering for the case swap this year only has minimal haze.


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## zarniwoop (1/12/13)

dent said:


> I poured this cube in the fermenter with a litre or two of nottingham slurry, and fermented it capped to 20 psi or so over four days ranging from 16 to 22 degrees, then chilled and filtered since I needed a keg for another gathering.


Sorry OT but when you say fermented it capped to 20 PSI what does this mean? (newbie question I know but I haven't seen this mentioned before)


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## dent (2/12/13)

I ferment in a closed system (50L keg) with a pressure relief valve attached. The valve regulates the pressure inside the keg to 20psi, releasing anything over that. This has some benefits, mainly cleaner fermentation, easy oxygenation, and free carbonation. If it is all set up right, once the beer is fermented out to your satisfaction, you can simply put the keg into your dispensing fridge straight away.


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## zarniwoop (2/12/13)

Ah thanks.


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## mje1980 (3/12/13)

black_labb said:


> For a while I was doing double batches and would treat the 2 cubes differently. Regularly I would cube hop them drastically differently, sometimes I would add Steeped specialty malts or adjuncts (belgian candy sugar) and add during the fermentation. I did a Dubbel and an american IPA in one batch by using a lot of cube hopping highish AA hops in the IPA and steeping spec malts into the Dubbel. Of course they used different yeasts. I won a comp with a black rye IPA that I brewed 2 cubes of. The first I brewed and tasted; I decided what I needed to do to make the second one just perfect and did just that using steeping of spec grains and boiling up some more late hops as well as adding some belgian candy sugar. It really worked out well.
> 
> I've often added spec grains at the end of the mash instead of the begining. I find that they come across smoother but more flavoursome at the same time. The enzymes in the mash break down different starches, complex sugars and carbohydrates, why wouldn't they be breaking down the complex sugars in the spec malts we go through so much effort in getting there in the first place?



Interesting, I've always added dark malts late in the mash but never thought of doing with other spec malts like crystal. Hmm


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## technobabble66 (1/7/16)

Hey dent,
what are the updates on this? Any further news to add?

In particular, i'm curious about the Aromatic malt you used.
I believe it a quasi crystal category of malt, but apparently still has starch and enzymes in it. So i was wondering if either (namely the starch) had any (negative) impact on the beer. I noticed you mentioned a few posts back you were very happy with the result from Aromatic, so i was keen to hear more about it.

Edit: and how did you add the grain to the cube? - was it free or in little baggies/hop-socks?


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## MHB (1/7/16)

I think of Aromatic as a super Munich, I don't think its a crystal malt but has a lot more in common with Melanoidin.
Mark


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## technobabble66 (1/7/16)

Oh yeah, melanoiden. That's another one i've got that i could chuck into the cube 

Thanks, Martin - some of the descriptors are a bit vague on how it's made &/or what it's classified as.
Interestingly, i've come across mention on a few sites that crystal malt would have some residual starch, whereas the lack of a similar mention with regards to roasted malts seems to infer that the roasted malts don't have residual starch. What are your thoughts on that?

I'm asking as i assume that residual/free starch going into the cube could/would be detrimental.
Mind you, it seems like what dent was reporting above indicates that at least with Aromatic, that wasn't a problem.


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## manticle (1/7/16)

Crystal is kilned wet. Aromatic is toasted, a bit like biscuit or victory but with some diastatic power. Plays well with biscuit, a little goes a long way.

Pretty sure the kiln/roast processes to make dark malts will convert starch and burn off most of the sugar but from experience I believe some longer chain sugars remain, thus contributing to slightly higher fg when a large portion is used.


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## dent (1/7/16)

I would just put the grains in loose - you can avoid putting most of them in the fermenter if you like, since they settle into a mud on the bottom of the cube. I didn't have any problems with starch - pretty sure crystal malts will have some starch left in them anyhow, so it's the same deal.


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## technobabble66 (2/7/16)

You used crushed grain, didn't you dent?
Have you tried both crushed & uncrushed and noticed any differences?


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## dent (2/7/16)

Crushed only - uncrushed would be pretty pointless IMO.


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