# Markws Brew Stand Build



## markws (7/6/10)

Dear All,

I thought that I would document building my brewstand. For quite some time I have been brewing with a couple of converted kegs & esky with a NASA burner. Each brew day consisted of a reasonable amount of lifting and moving gear around in order to heat the sparge water, boil the wort etc. Moving forward....I have spent a fair amount of time considering what design would best suit my brewing needs and have settled on a modified Brutus Ten (Lonnie Mac, www.alenuts.com) single tier brew system. I am sure at the end of this thread I will probably be more concerned the total cost of the build! 

Modifications being considered:
Gas pilot safety valve system (described by MNBugeater, honeywell thermocouple and pilot burner and BASO safety valve)
Electric HLT 
BC-460 software system (wireless) and controller with my itouch. (Todate, i have this system monitoring my fermentation fridge and appears to be a stable plaform)

Progress todate:

SS 50L kegs obtained, lids cut out (1 x XU1 angle grinder has died in completing this task).
Holes for all the hex nipples have been drilled. Hex nipples have been welded into place and tested for leaks. 
Approximately 1.5 kegs have been cleaned and had a basic polish (1 x XU1 angle grinder has died in completing this task).
HLT has been fitted with a 1/2" full port ball valve, 2400 watt heating element, 1/2" 100mm exterior insert thermowell (note the socket welded on to the keg is a standard 1/2" socket fitting cut in half and stepped on a lathe to help with positioning), 1/2" SS pickup tube and 1/2" SS cap nut converted to act as a compession fitting with a plastic olive compression fitting (I have found this to be the cheapest way to maintain the SS theme and create a compression fitting that does not need to provide water tight seal)

Mistakes made todate:

Mistake 1 - not really caring too much about trying to mate the diameter of the hole cut into the keg with a readily available cooking lid. 
Mistake 2 - not buy shares in XU1!!!!!

Purchases made todate:

Majority of the fittings he been purchased. I am planning to use all 1/2" SS, specifically cam lock connectors for all hoses.
2x March 809 pumps purchased
1x 30 plate SS heat exchanger
50x50x3mm x 16m square steel tube (stainless stand was an inital consideration. However, at >$40.00 per metre, mild steel at $12.50 per metre was selected).

Future tasks to be completed:

Machine an appropriate cover for the heaing element to cover the power connections.
Finish cleaning/polishing the kegs
Re-weld one of the hex nipples that has a small leak when water tested.
Research burner and gas valve configurations

Additionally, I have purchased a Cigweld 130 DC arc welder and assoc equipment. So, all the welding presented in the various pics has been done by me. Until this project I have never used any type of welding equipment, so apologies to all professionals in this area if my efforts appear alittle on the butcherous. However, as a side note - since welding all the sockets into each of the kegs - I would have to say it was not really a difficult task, but rather time consuming an achievable by most DYI'ers.

Attached below are pics of the current AG brew system and the work on the new brew stand.


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## NickB (7/6/10)

May just want to photoshop certain names off those 50L SS vessels..... h34r:


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## batemanbrewer (8/6/10)

Yeah those kegs are definitely illegal to have and cut up.


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## jiesu (8/6/10)

I am thinking of doing a similar setup in the future. 
Is a 50Lt Keg Tun enough to be doing strong double batches through? The rest of my system will likely be 70litres But I am considering a keg as a tun.


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## schooey (8/6/10)

daft templar said:


> Is a 50Lt Keg Tun enough to be doing strong double batches through? The rest of my system will likely be 70litres But I am considering a keg as a tun.



Depends how strong you mean by 'strong'... I have a 50 Lt tun, I can get 14kg of grain in it if I dough in at ~2.5L/kg of water. But if you want to make 46L of a beer that is above about 7.0 - 7.5% ABV, you're going to have to go for a bigger tun. Then you'll probably need a bigger HLT, a bigger kettle..blah blah blah


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## Bongchitis (8/6/10)

You stick welded Stainless with no previous welding experience? The welds are quite reasonable.... any tips?


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## raven19 (8/6/10)

I love a good build log.

Keep 'em coming! :icon_cheers:


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## schooey (8/6/10)

Bongchitis said:


> You stick welded Stainless with no previous welding experience? The welds are quite reasonable.... any tips?



:lol:

I wonder if yardy will read this and giggle like I did...


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## yardy (8/6/10)

Bongchitis said:


> You stick welded Stainless with no previous welding experience? The welds are quite reasonable.... any tips?



yep, look both ways before crossing the road and be nice to your mum, jokes aside, stainless rods are pretty user friendly.



schooey said:


> :lol:
> 
> I wonder if yardy will read this and giggle like I did...




nice work mark, i love a good build :icon_chickcheers: 

converting the HLT to elc is my next project so looking forward to seeing yours finished

cheers

Dave


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## cdbrown (8/6/10)

Nice work Mark. I cut the lid off one of my kegs on the weekend and chewed through 2 cutting discs. Very impressed with how circular the holes are - did you have to tidy it up after cutting the lid? Mine doesn' look very tidy at all. Did you just use a flap wheel to buff up the sides? 

Good stuff with the welds. I'm planning on weldless fittings on mine, but perhaps after I weld the frame I might change my mind. Not done any welding since high school which was many many years ago.


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## markws (13/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> Nice work Mark. I cut the lid off one of my kegs on the weekend and chewed through 2 cutting discs. Very impressed with how circular the holes are - did you have to tidy it up after cutting the lid? Mine doesn' look very tidy at all. Did you just use a flap wheel to buff up the sides?
> 
> Good stuff with the welds. I'm planning on weldless fittings on mine, but perhaps after I weld the frame I might change my mind. Not done any welding since high school which was many many years ago.



Hi Cdbrown,

In regards to cutting off the 'lids' and trying to achieve a circular hole... for all the kegs I needs to initally cut the lids off with a 1mm steel cut-off disc (100mm). i then used a steel rule an marked the diameter of the circle from the edge of the rim ie 2.5 to 5.0 cm every 1-2cm. I used a couple of metal grinding discs to remove the remaining metal back to the marked line and followed up with a flap sander to smooth and feather the edges. for each keg it took at least an hour or more.

To buff the sides of the keg i used several straw discs from crawford's and black cake to remove the grime. I was not after a polish finished, rather a clean and neat appearance. 

In regards to S welding - highly recommend welding Vs weldess fttings, the extra time in my eyes has value and it is not terribly difficult.

Cheers

MWS


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## markws (13/6/10)

Dear All,

A small amount of progres has been made this week. Furthermore, I don;t expect a considerable amount of progress in the next couple of weeks, while materials arrive from around the globe.

Tasks Completed.

Leak tested the welds from the previous week. A couple of welds di require additional 'work' done to ensure they were truely 'leak proof'
2 of 3 keg have been 'buffed' clean. The worst keg remains to be 'buffed' clean.
HLT element has been completed both wiring and cover/cap;
Operational qualification of the HLT.

I spent most of the week reasearching several elements of the new brew system, specifically:
Burner types;
Gass shut off valves;
Gas pilot safety valves;
Gas pilot lights;
Gas themocouples;

I have more or less decided to migrate from a esky mash tun to a SS keg/false bottom which will incorporate recirculating the wort during the mash to enable step mashing, but more importantly achieve a more consistent desired mash temperature. Currently with the esky mash tun I thought I was getting a consisent mash temperature (based on the temp gauge installed), however, the last couple of 'brews' I have been possibly mislead by the read out at the beginning of the mash while it is equilibrating andhas lead to me either adding hot / cold water to later find i had predominately undershot my desired mash temp (which I fnd pretty annoying).

I have placed orders for 2 x 10 point monoglian burners and a single low pressure gas regulator plus 2 x white rodgers gas safety valves and matching honeywell themocouple and pilotburner (764-742, Q314A6094 and Q340A1066 respectively), all due to arrive in the next 2 weeks.

Once these materials arrive, i will be able to set the height of the lower brew stand (rear) beam to accomadate a 2 to 3 inch flame from the bottom of the keg.

As previously mentioned, I have installed a 2400W heating element for the HLT. i was keen to know if this would be suitable to handle 10 Gallon brews. Detailed below are pics of the cover and information regarding the time/temperature performance. Suffce to say, it will meet my needs and does have the capacity to handle a 10 gallon brew and i will not be installing a gas burner to cater for this need.

Overview.
No insulation on HLT / No lid on HLT
Outside temp = 23.4oC
Water Temp = 20oC
48 L in 50 L keg
Tempmate controller used
2400W heating element used on 10A circuit
Desired strike water temp = 80oC

T0 = 21oC
T1 = 240oC
T27=35oC 
T36=40oc
T56 = 54oC
T1.07 = 63oC
T1.15 = 68oC
T1.24 = 73oC
T1.26 = 74oC
T1.30 = 76oC
T1.31 = 77oC
T1.33 = 78oC
T1.35 = 79oC
T1.36 = 80oC

~ 30L removed (simultating a 'mash-in' and refilled to ~ 48L to simulate preparing the sparge water)

T0 = 45oC
T1 = 43oC
T17 = 52oC
T30 = 61oC
T42 = 67oC
T49 = 71oC
T53 = 73oC
T57 = 76oC
T59 = 77oC
T1.03 = 79oC

I hope the infomation stated above has some value to others considering this route - it certainly showed to me that by using an electric HLT i can potentially shave at least 1 hour off a 5 gallon brew day and possibly 2 or more on a 10 gallon double batch event. - I'm converted!!!!!

Cheers

MWS


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## cdbrown (14/6/10)

Cheers for the response Mark. Did you just get plain grinding discs or ones made for s/s. I've got a dremel tool so I might see if I can get a bit for it.

Slap a timer on the HLT and you'll have the strike water ready when you get up in the morning saving more time.


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## malbur (14/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> Cheers for the response Mark. Did you just get plain grinding discs or ones made for s/s. I've got a dremel tool so I might see if I can get a bit for it.
> 
> Slap a timer on the HLT and you'll have the strike water ready when you get up in the morning saving more time.



Hi cdbrown, If you get the 1mm thick cutoff disc's i am sure they say on them that they are for SS anyway, they also have more give when trying to cut around corners.

mal


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## fcmcg (14/6/10)

malbur said:


> Hi cdbrown, If you get the 1mm thick cutoff disc's i am sure they say on them that they are for SS anyway, they also have more give when trying to cut around corners.
> 
> mal


There is a YouTube video that shows you how to make a jig for your angle grinder to cut the top out of your keg..sorry don't have the link as on the iPhone..but it's what I did and it worked a treat !


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## yardy (14/6/10)

malbur said:


> Hi cdbrown, If you get the 1mm thick cutoff disc's i am sure they say on them that they are for SS anyway, they also have more give when trying to cut around corners.
> 
> mal



go easy with the microdiscs if you're forcing them to cut a radius, they'll only go so far before they let go.

Dave


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## markws (23/6/10)

Dear All,

A little more progress made in last 1.5 weeks. 

All the kegs are now polished and leak tested (pic attached) A third XU1 died during this process, I have certainly come the realisation in respect to angle grinders - you get what you pay for. No more XU1 gear for me!

Today the casters and square inserts arrived. I was completely disappointed with the range of casters available at Bunnings. After surfing the internet (specifically Ebay), I inadvertantly came across a VIC retail/distibutor. Phoned up on Monday - in my hand today! Perfect! I decided to go for castor rated to 100kg each with wheel and directional locks. 

Burners. As previously mentioned, after a reasonable amount of research I have decided to use 2 x mongolian 10 burners for powering both the mash tun and kettle. This was based on comments most people seemed to require to plug up a couple of ports on larger mongolian burners and also I wanted the option to be able to convert to LNG (as a future upgrade). This is also aligned with Lonnie Mac's thinking for th Brutus Ten. Big Tip. If you are looking to buy this product now, expected to do a fair amount of talking on the phone, because the importer is not expecting the cargo container to arrive for another couple of weeks and most retailers are waiting for stock. So, after a couple of days I finally located a VIC retailer that had the product in stock. So today the burners arrived with a low pressure regulator and 3/8 to 1/2" brass adaptors. (Pic of the wheels and burners attached)

Still not arrived is a 'care package' from a gas parts retailer containing the automatic gas shut off valves, pilot lights and thermocouples. I am expecting this (hopefully) prior to the end of the week.

This will then allow me to double check the correct distance to set the bottom rail to ensure the tip of gas burner flame is approx 2.5" away from the base of the mash tun/kettle. I then plan to hire a metal cut off drop saw to prepare the lengths of square tube.

Lastly;

I was bored during the weekend and decided to assemble the connector that will be used to measure the temperature of the liquid during various stages of the brewing process, such as cooling the boild wort while recirculating through a plater chiller or during the mash. This is direct copy of Lonnie Mac's design for the brutus ten but bling enhanced, being all SS. (Fittings/Components, female threaded camlock, T piece, 50mm exterior insert thermowell, and threaded male camlock). I like this concept of being able to incorporate a temperature sensor where you feel is appropriate to your brewing needs.

And..I still have not purchased a gas solenoid and it appears I will have to bite the bullet and pack a packet for shipping. Not happy jan! And, have to decide how and where i will mount the temp controllers/switches.

Cheers

MWS


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## cdbrown (24/6/10)

Hi mark

Looks the goods mate. I tried to go down the weldless route but finding the s/s fittings to suit far to difficult. About the only thing that's going to be weldless is the water inlet to the HLT, the dial thermos in the HLT and MLT and HERMS element. 

Where did you get the 1" BSP socket? Had hoped TWOC would have some but unfortunately not. Also that thermowell - was that from craftbrewer?

I cut all my lengths of square tubing using a 115mm cut off disc in the grinder (not XU1 but cheap ryobi I think which I've had for about 7 years). The thinner the disc the quicker the cut I found (but more likely to not be straight)


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## Spoonta (24/6/10)

Cdbrown have you tryed stirling Stainless steel


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## kevin_smevin (24/6/10)

markws said:


> Dear All,
> 
> A little more progress made in last 1.5 weeks.
> 
> ...




Where did you get the casters. I'll be needing some in a month or two. Keep the info coming, all very informative.


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## cdbrown (24/6/10)

Cheers Spoonta - wish I'd known of that place before probably would have saved 50% on what I've already spent on s/s fittings. Oh well, socket has been ordered and they are posting it to me.


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## Spoonta (24/6/10)

not a prob mate if you need some were to get them welded on let me know


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## markws (24/6/10)

Hi Guys,

1" SS boss for heating element - purchased from BeerBelly some time ago. I actually used a lathe and cut it in half and stepped the boss so that it would locate into the hole prepared, making life easy for welding. As a side note i have done the same to several 1/2" connectors - I will take a couple of pics tonight. 

Castors - purchased from Dandenong Casters. www.dandenongcasters.com.au, type: Core Caster/NDL series (100kg). They have a new website up and running and are offering 20% off by mentioning that you have checked out their internet page.

PS - hope to have some pics of the gas safety shutoff valve components either today or tomorrow. I checked out the track and trace number at work today and it should be at the PO Box for collection and have also ordered components for the mash tun (due to arrive in the next 10 days). Still the main outstanding item to purchased as previously mentioned is the gas solenoid from the US - my number one job tonight!

Cheers

MWS


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## cdbrown (24/6/10)

Spoonta said:


> not a prob mate if you need some were to get them welded on let me know



I have an arc welding machine which I'm keen to use. Is there any issues or things I need to look out for when arc welding the kegs? Burning holes or anything like that?


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## Spoonta (24/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> I have an arc welding machine which I'm keen to use. Is there any issues or things I need to look out for when arc welding the kegs? Burning holes or anything like that?




You need get s/s rod to start with then low amps


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## markws (24/6/10)

cdbrown - similar to Spoonta comments; I used 2mm SS rods and used a fairly low amp setting. I was lucky to save some SS tube to test drive in order to work out an appropriate amp setting that was easy to work with and did not create a hole at the weld joint. While welding the 1" boss, I did blow a small hole between the boss and the side of the keg which took a bit of time and effort to fix. ie building up the weld and grinding it back.

If it adds value, happy for you to call past to check out the set-up i used and how i approached my welding. (I do not confess to being the greatest welder placed on this planet, but did mangage to get the job done). I plan to weld in another 2 1/2" bosses shortly for both the mash tun and kettle.

PS- I purchased my SS rod from a welding surpplier in Osborne Park, 1 roberts road. ~$30 of a 1kg of rods 2mm diameter.

Cheers

MWS


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## Spoonta (25/6/10)

I got my welding rods througe ebay


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## markws (25/6/10)

Hi All,

As expected the gas safety valve, pilot light and thermocouple arrived. Pics attached. I have picked up two sets; 1 x boil kettle and 1 x mash tun.

I ended up purchasing;
White Rodgers Gas safety Valve 764-742
Honeywell 18" universal thermocouple Q340A1066
Honeywell Q34A6094 target type pilot burner.

This was based upon threads in US forums and research as to what was locally available (plus cost). It looks as if I will be needing to manufacture a specific bracket to combine the pilot flame and thermocouple with the mongolian burner. Furthermore , I am not entirely satisfied to 'hang' the mongolian burner off the 1/2' gas tube as described in the Brutus Ten build. More thinking shall be required prior to building the brew frame.

Still have not ordered the gs solenoid from the US due to complete slackness.

(Pls note. The normal caveats apply if you are considering these products for your project. I am not a lic gas fitter).

PS - I recently picked up some beers from the international beer shop here in Perth was lucky to carry by wears out in a nice new beer crate FOC


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## browndog (25/6/10)

cdbrown said:


> I have an arc welding machine which I'm keen to use. Is there any issues or things I need to look out for when arc welding the kegs? Burning holes or anything like that?



Make sure you get some scrap and practice on that before you go anywhere near your S/S vessel.


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## yardy (28/6/10)

browndog said:


> Make sure you get some scrap and practice on that before you go anywhere near your S/S vessel.




good advice, also when welding, concentrate the weldpool onto the heavier item and let the weld flow onto the thinner guage material, less chance of blowing a hole in the vessel.


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## markws (4/7/10)

Dear All,

Finally i have made some serious progress in creating 'my own monster' of a brew frame.

Pumpy I don't like you at the moment.  You pics posted early this week are an inspiring. Thanks for the dimensions too Franko for the red rocket.

My plan was today was to hire a metal cut off saw. Late Sat afternoon I was chating to a good friend of mine (Mustafa - Man of Love!) and he mentioned that he had a metal drop saw.

So, today - i headed out to his winery and collected the saw (specifically, telling him not to expect it back in the nect 4 to 8 weeks), sweet!!!!

So, what was actually acheived....

Most of the lenghts of tube have been cut (50x50x3mm) and I have 'tack' welded the frame together. This represents now a hybrid of a brutus 10 and a franko's - red rocket. The key differences are that I wanted a bar (similar to the brutus 10) to mount the 2 x march 809's and a 30 plate heat exchanger. I was contenplating just going the red rocket frame but liked the idea of not just making a box, but basically a box with legs, with the intent that it will appear more elegant. 

Furthermore, to help with hiding the electrical cords etc i have drill a number of holed in the frame within the welds. This has been purposely been done for both the March 809's and the gas solenoid valve (hopefully to arrived prior to the end of this week). 

Stuff to do: 

Fully weld all joins in the frame, and grind back all welds.

recieve several 'care packages', gas solenoid, false bottom and mash/hot liquor return system and temp controllers,

Currently my plan is to paint the majority of the frame 'hammertone' grey and areas with heat - stove bright - grey.

Importantly the dimensions;

Since i am a not a short person I have decided to go for an overall height of 870mm (tube cut to 770mm to handle 100mm wheels), total length - 1400mm (same as Franko's+Pumpy's), width 410mm (total) - this means the kegs use all four sides of the frame for balance.

MWS


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## raven19 (4/7/10)

Looking good!

Are you adding castors to the legs?


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## markws (5/7/10)

Raven19 - i have purchased some 100mm direction, lockable casters - there is a pic of them further back in the thread. Picked them up from Dandenong Casters (they are on the web and have a discount at the moment if you mention the new web site)


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## markws (5/7/10)

A number of 'care packages' arrived today for the new brewstand:

1. 2x 10amp temp controllers (purchased via ebay, as discussed through a sep thread on this forum).
these willl be used to control the electric hot liquor tank and the mash tun.

2. 1x STC valves - gas solenoid valve.
This unit will be combined with the gas safety valve, Pilot light and manual gas valve to be controlled by the temp controller (forementioned) to swtich the monoglian burner on and off; to either maintain the desired mash temp or raise the temp either for step mashing or mash out.

3. 1 x STC 1/2" bsp male to elbow compression fitting.
This will be welded onto the hot liquor tank hopefully this weekend as a site glass fitting. I already have the plastic tube - it just needs to be cut to length.

Additionally I have attached a basic pic of the gas safety, gas solenoid and manual valve setup. The plan is to install the equipment similar to pumpy's gas set-up as the thermocouple for the pilot valve has a fixed length, otherwise I would be considering a remote setup on the brew frame to control each of the burners. The boil kettle will only be manually controlled is gas safety valve and manual ball valve only.

Hopefully this weekend i will have a chance to complete the mash tun which will require a mash return system to be installed as well finishing off all the modifications required to the other vessels.

I also will have to start to researching potiential enclosures for the electronics - temp control valves and switches to be installed. Again the plan is to locate a fairly small and compact electronics box on the right hand side under the hot liquor tank.

MWS


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## yardy (6/7/10)

markws said:


> 3. 1 x STC 1/2" bsp male to elbow compression fitting.
> This will be welded onto the hot liquor tank
> 
> MWS



the fitting looks to be galv, it'll be easier to weld if you remove it, nice job on the frame.

cheers

Dave


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## unrealeous (6/7/10)

markws said:


> 2. 1x STC valves - gas solenoid valve.
> This unit will be combined with the gas safety valve, Pilot light and manual gas valve to be controlled by the temp controller (forementioned) to swtich the monoglian burner on and off; to either maintain the desired mash temp or raise the temp either for step mashing or mash out.


I actually added a manual valve in parallel to the solenoid valve instead of putting one inline. The reasoning being that there might be times when you want your burners going without your control system on, and these things fail safe (close) - and if not, you turn the gas off at the tap. Food for thought anyway.


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## markws (6/7/10)

unrealeous said:


> I actually added a manual valve in parallel to the solenoid valve instead of putting one inline. The reasoning being that there might be times when you want your burners going without your control system on, and these things fail safe (close) - and if not, you turn the gas off at the tap. Food for thought anyway.



Thanks for the reply - i have not considered this option. More thought required. <_< I was solely focused on the fact that the control panel would always be used to operate the burners.


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## cdbrown (6/7/10)

markws said:


> I also will have to start to researching potiential enclosures for the electronics - temp control valves and switches to be installed. Again the plan is to locate a fairly small and compact electronics box on the right hand side under the hot liquor tank.
> 
> MWS



Looking good Mark. Let me know where you get the enclosure from as I'll need one as well.


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## markws (6/7/10)

cdbrown said:


> Looking good Mark. Let me know where you get the enclosure from as I'll need one as well.


CDbrown,

I did a bit of research last night on this topic - RS components appear to be have the widest range of aluminum enclosures suitable for what we what. I am looking at a box that is approximately 176 x 121 x 106mm. Cost is approx $50. Jaycar and DSE had nothing that met my needs. It will be a tight fit for all the components, but I wanted the smallest box possible. This has now lead me to identifying what type of switch to use. I am thinking of waterproof swtiches at the moment. 

I'll post a pic shortly of the product I have decided on.

Hope this helps

MWS

Edit: I have replaced an order with RS Components for the following item (Pic attached) 

View attachment rscomp.bmp


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## markws (8/7/10)

The aluminum electronic enclosure turned up today. Pics attached. dimensions 171mmx121mmx106mm (2mm wall thickness).

The plan is to mount it on the right hand side flush with the brew frame under the hot liquor tank.

I took a couple of pics of the two temp controllers to be mounted in the enclosure. It will be tight for all the switches. <_<


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## pcmfisher (9/7/10)

I really hope you have earthed that element in your HLT

Also make sure you do the same with your aluminium box.....

Be safe


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## cdbrown (9/7/10)

pcmfisher said:


> I really hope you have earthed that element in your HLT
> 
> Also make sure you do the same with your aluminium box.....
> 
> Be safe



Would you recommend soldering an earth wire to the rear of the element or to the housing?


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## pcmfisher (9/7/10)

It doesn't look like the element has an earth connection.
You can earth it anywhere as long as its connected to the metal of the pot.
Tec screw an earth wire to the bottom flange of the keg would work.


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## markws (9/7/10)

pcmfisher,

The electrical connections for the heating element and all electrical work has been performed by a registered electrican. The SS cap covering the heating element contains the appropriate earthing.


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## pcmfisher (10/7/10)

No worries, just couldn't see it from your pics.


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## davo002 (11/7/10)

markws said:


> Dear All,
> 
> A little more progress made in last 1.5 weeks.
> 
> ...




Very informative thanks, where did you buy the burners and casters and how much were they?


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## markws (11/7/10)

davo002 said:


> Very informative thanks, where did you buy the burners and casters and how much were they?




Davo - casters are from dandenong casters in vic $120 total. Burners too came from vic - sorry can't remember off the top of my head the group or cost. I just googled mongolian burner + Australia.

MWS


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## unrealeous (11/7/10)

markws said:


> Davo - casters are from dandenong casters in vic $120 total. Burners too came from vic - sorry can't remember off the top of my head the group or cost. I just googled mongolian burner + Australia.
> 
> MWS


Bunnings aint so bad - I'm using casters rated at 40kg each - slotted straight in to my brew rig - about $24 bucks for the lot. Its not like you move your brew rig around when all vessels are full - and you won't have them all full at the same time.


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## markws (19/7/10)

I decided to take the day off to really push ahead with the brewstand. I was not sure how far I would get, so the plan was to complete all the major welding including mounting the cross bars for each keg. However, luck being on my side, all the major welding has been completed (excluding the cross bars for the two burners), the mount for the pump is on, the plastic blocks for the castors are in and the frame had its 'semi' first coat. I have decided to paint the top 1/4 in 'white knight' hi temp aluminum/silver and the bottom 3/4 white knight hammer tone silver. The thinking hear is to reduce the amount of paint peel while in operation by using a ~550 degree heat resistant product and the hammer tone to aid in hiding the 'professional welding' i have done! Importantly I want to get a thin coat on to prevent any surface rust and can see two to three coats will be required.

Additionally i have mounted the compression elbow on the HLT for the site glass and also mounted in mash and boil kettle a socket at the top for liquid returns during mashing and whirlpooling.

I have to say just having the frame mobile and on castors is truely a blessing much easy to move and handle!

I hope this week to complete the mash tun - another care package should be at work today for collection to install the false bottom and mash/liquor return.

Once this is complete - I will be moving on to completing the welding and devise an adjustable mounting solution for the two burners.

Pics attached.

MWS


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## cdbrown (20/7/10)

Top work Mark. Those welds look good - amazing how much quicker and easier it is to weld after only doing a few. Did you cut those top plates from an off cut of the hollow section? I'll need to do something about closing up the ends of the main beams on my rig as well.


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## grimpanda (20/7/10)

Really enjoying following progress on your rig Mark. Can you tell me what the length of your 2400w HLT element is and where you got it? I've found plenty on ebay but they are all 440mm long and would barely fit my HLT at a squeeze.


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## cdbrown (20/7/10)

Is your HLT a keg conversion Gabe? Could you get a 15A circuit installed and move up to 3.6kW as they seem to be shorter for some reason
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOT-WATER-ELEMENT-3...=item25502dae1f


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## grimpanda (21/7/10)

cdbrown said:


> Is your HLT a keg conversion Gabe? Could you get a 15A circuit installed and move up to 3.6kW as they seem to be shorter for some reason
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOT-WATER-ELEMENT-3...=item25502dae1f



It is indeed, but I live in a rental, so installing a 15A circuit is impractical for a number of reasons.


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## markws (21/7/10)

Cdbrown - the tops of the square tube were closed with 50mm 3mm flat bar roughly cut to size welded on and smoothed off with a flap sander /angle grinder. If i had the technology and ability I would of considered 45 degree cuts to eleminate this issue. If you are thinking of doing the same - pm me i have plenty of flat bar remaining you would be welcome to use.

Gabe - the HLT element was from beerbelly, 2400W 10A mounted on a 1" boss that was cut in half to reduce the amount it would not sit in side the keg. Possibly not the fastest solution, however the prelim data is positive and will support 40L brew days. Aswell, I did not want to have to modify the house ie install a 15A circuit.

Updates - recieved the domed false bottom for the mash tun and wort return dish. As previously mentioned I, intend to modify the mash return dish to ensure it is removal and therefore hopefully helps with cleans and removing spent grains. Pics to follow shortly. This weekend will include a bunnings run to collect some cap-head socket bolts for mounting the pumps, 1" flat bar to construct the adjustable burner 'racks'.

I have also had to buy a 1/2" bsp tap to clear the sockets welded on to the keg - I suspect the sockets on the mash tun and boil kettle have warped from welding.

In summary - it is shaping up to be a fairly slow weekend for brew build.

MWS


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## markws (25/7/10)

Min effort this weekend (however did get to brew 35L of Jamil's America Ale ).

Updates - 

I mounted the March Pumps on the centre strut. I also included a pic of where the wires will go.

I also received a 'care package', so i was able to tentively setup the Mash tun. SS 12" false bottom, 1/2" elbow and helical wound plastic tube. The compression fitting is actually a 1/2" BSP cap nut that i have drilled an appropriately sized hole in the end.

I wanted to ensure the mash return dish was removable, to make life as easy as possible in removing the spent grain. So, I have welded a socket into the top of the keg and plan to attached the entire return dish on a female camlock. Test driving it today it appears to be suitable and robust enough for routine use. Pics attached.

Lastly I mounted the control panel. Pics attached.

Next I plan to make adjustable burner stands from 1" flat bar prior to mounting the gas equipment etc.


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## white.grant (26/7/10)

Lovely work there Mark, good idea with the camlock.

That isn't a section of helical wire PVC tube coming from the false bottom is it? Probably be better to use some silicon tube as the PVC isn't heat rated.

cheers

grant


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## T.D. (26/7/10)

Grantw said:


> That isn't a section of helical wire PVC tube coming from the false bottom is it? Probably be better to use some silicon tube as the PVC isn't heat rated.



Where's my popcorn...


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## glaab (26/7/10)

Real pretty, but why didn't you mitre the top corners and hit it mit the flap disc? 
I know, everyones a critic. Seriously though, very nice job Mark :icon_chickcheers: 
I'll be making similar soon so I'll keep an eye on the thread.


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## grimpanda (26/7/10)

Nice progress Mark.

What kind of burners are you planning to use? I've just started my brew stand (yet to make a thread), and am currently (trying to) devise a rail system so I can slide my 23-jet mongolian from my mash tun to kettle as needed.

Also whats the overall height of your stand with the castors?

Sorry for the twenty questions!

Gabe


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## unrealeous (26/7/10)

Grantw said:


> That isn't a section of helical wire PVC tube coming from the false bottom is it? Probably be better to use some silicon tube as the PVC isn't heat rated.


+1 - that PVC imparts bad flavors - I'll dig you up a thread on it if you want.

That wort return setup looks awesome. Might have to upgrade my setup after seeing that.


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## markws (8/8/10)

More work done on the stand this weekend.

Basically constructed the burner sub-frame and commenced milling the instrument case to install the two digital temp controllers. 

The flat bar used to support (rest) the burners on has been machined to include two locating holes for the burner and a separate hole for the bolt to pass through and srew into what was the pilot light hole. An additional hole was drilled to provide access to install the pilot light gas tube. The pilot lighter and thermowell couple has also been installed.

The vertical braces have been milled to allow the burner height to be completely adjustable.

I have also started preparing the frame for the final coats of paint which i hope to complete shortly.

Pics attached.


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## mxd (8/8/10)

well done, looking good


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## markws (6/9/10)

Work on the brew stand has been slow over the course of the last few weeks, however some minor progress has been made. 

90% of the gas plumbing has been done (pics attached). I have mounted most of the equipment that will be used, again the set up is very similar to pumpy's however included in the system are a couple of different items. Two automatic gas shut off valves have been included that operate of a pilot light (not pictured) and a single gas solenoid for the Mash tun. 

I decided to also 'pipe' the LPG gas internally from the bottom of the brew frame on the LHS. So inside the left hand vertical leg is 1/2" copper pipe and brazed fittings - I will take photos later when I disassemble the system. 

I also have been working on some heat shields for each burner and you can also see the plans for where the heat exchanger will be mounted.

Basically - a couple more items need to be manufactued to allow me to progress through to painting the frame and final assembly, wiring etc.

MWS


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## husky (7/9/10)

Great work! Threads like this really help when trying to design a brew stand.
Have you considered adding a second 2400W element just to add a bit of extra kick if you ever need to quickly ramp up temp? In designing my setup I was going to go for a 3600W element but then the standard 10A temp controllers wont run it, so the second element would be a manual switch if required(I guess it could be on a second controller).
This would require the socket to be welded in the vessel on a slight angle to allow both elements to run side by side I guess.

Also, Is a burner under the mash tun simply to add small amounts of heat to maintain the temperature if it starts to drop?


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## markws (20/9/10)

Brew stand painted and ready for equipment to be mounted - two tone; pot belly black (heat resistant) and charcoal hammer tone. I additionally have made some heat guards for each of the burners to improve flame and heat direction/control. pics to follow.


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## raven19 (21/9/10)

:icon_drool2: Top work on this build mate. :icon_cheers:


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## markws (3/10/10)

Progress report - three pics. The gas system is basically 90% complete - i just have to bend the 1/4" pilot gas lines and then it is ready for leak testing. Most of the electgrical is complete - have to purcahse a couple of items prior to wiring it up.


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## keifer33 (3/10/10)

That is looking very good mate, nice and clean. :icon_drool2:


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## grimpanda (3/10/10)

Looking great Mark. What kind of regulators & extras do you have rigged up for the burners & pilots, and would you mind me asking where you got them?


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## markws (3/10/10)

I have labelled the pics posted earlier today and detailed some of the basic components in the brew stand.

information - gas system a combination of the brutus ten system (alenuts.com) and various postings on the us forum homebrewtalk (search for brutus ten), specifically MNBugeater has posted a significant amount of information on his setup which i have copied in principle. Also, pumpy's brew stand for the location of the gas valves etc. The key drivers was to incorporate an appropriate level of safety into the system (ie gas safety valves) and improve mashing temperature control (pls read brutus ten and check out Loonie's youtube vids on the set-up parts 1 to 5).

I have used a STC gas solenoid valve after a reasonable amount of research - ASCO's were too expensive and in the literature it was a difficult read to determine the inappropriateness of the STC product. At the end of the day a significant number of people have used the STC sucessfully.

The gas safety valves and honeywell equipment was all purchased from the US via patriot-supply. Super easy to dea with and likes paypal.
Gas valve - stcvalve.com. Again easy to deal with over the internet - ships directly from china.

In the pics what you can not see is that the gas hose will connect behind the LHS front post, just above the bottom rail. Inside the post is a section of straight 1/2" copper pipe with 90 degree pipe to thread sockets soldered on. (the whole system will only be running low pressure 0.5PSI proprane). I purchased from carvanspareparts (good for propane connectors) a 1/2" to 3/8" connector for the gas hose. so in summary the gas comes in at the bottom, travels up the LHS leg and enters the 1/2" SS tee fitting. 

The white knight gas safety valve has 3 settings - closed, pilot and open which is nice. The gas ball valve, brass right angle connector and braided 600mm gas line is all from bunnings. I pm'd pumpy on the braided gas lines and almost did not beleive him that he got them from bunnings. 8 shops later and 3 weeks, I managed to tracked them down in Mandurah - an hour south from perth by accident!!!!

The gas components in the centre of the stand are identical to the LHS with the exception of the gas solenoid valve. In the centre of centre vertical brace i have threaded the wiring loom, down to the right and then back up the front RHS post. Between the two march 809's is hole to allow each of them to be connected. 

As you can see I have mounted the pilot burner and thermocouple, but are yet to bend the 1/4" brass tube to connect the pilot burner to the safety valve - next weeks project - hopefully.

I did do a reasonable amount of research on sourcing the gas items locally - all the pricing provided back to me was not competitive with the US inclusive of shipping $45USD - flat rate 3 to 5 days US priority!

the paint is white knight pot belly black (temp resistant) and white knight charcoal hammer tone from bunnings - I have also fabricated two heat defectors to surround each burner which also require mounting.


Products
1 SS Tee 
2	White rogers dual inlet gas pilot safety valve (thermocouple operated) (cat 764-742)
3 SS threaded tube (~150mm) with 2x SS nuts and 1x1/2 SS washer either side of frame.
4	STC Brass closed gas solenoid valve 2W160 220v closed electrically opened.
5 gas ball valve bunnings
6	Mongolian burner 10 jet
7	Honeywell pilot burners Q314 and Q327A) cat Q314A6094 
8 honeywell 18" universal thermocouple (cat Q340A1066)

Hope all this information makes sense and helps.

Cheers

MWS


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## MattSR (3/10/10)

This stuff is fantastic - I want to build a HERMS setup one day, and it's great that you take the time to show everyone how your doing it. Pictures are worth 1,000 words and its great that I can come here and learn off you guys


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## cdbrown (4/10/10)

That rig looks really professional Mark - top job. Makes mine look like crap. I think you should take some time off work to get it finished though.


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## MattC (4/10/10)

How much do you charge for labour???


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## markws (19/10/10)

Progress report. Basically the brew frame and entire system is >95% complete. During teh last couple of days a fiar bit has been achieved:
Entire system is basically wired;
Cover for the pumps is completed (and painted);
Heat shields have been assembled and mounted;
The remaining components of the gas system ie pilot light and thermocouple are installed, including bending the pilot gas tube.

Things left to do:

Finish the HLT - site glass. Calibrate the site glass.
10mins of wiring to complete.
purchase tubing to assemble flexible line connectors
Manufacture a cover for the front right hand corner of the stand that the gas tube runs up inside.
Do a pilot run of the system to idenify any loose ends prior to committing to a double batch.

I have already tested the gas safety/pilot light system and it works a treat - i think that i have ended up with about 3 saftey cut offs just in the way you need to rotate the gas shut-off valve in conjunction with the manual ball valves which is great.

Anyway - plenty of pics attached for those interested. i included one pic of the location of the flexible gas pipe from the gas cylinder to the frame.

A bit sad the built is finished - its been a great challenge. I will take a couple of final pics with the entire system ready to go. Next, like many others, a motorised grain mill.

MWS


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## cdbrown (19/10/10)

That's awesome Mark. Top job mate. Get those little things finished and start 'er up!


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## argon (19/10/10)

:icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: 



slotted angle just really wouldn't cut it would it


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## Gretschem (28/11/10)

wow, impressive workmanship, very well done


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## A3k (7/6/11)

Hi Markws,
very impressed with the build. 

have you used it yet? How does she go?

Cheers,
Al


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## Online Brewing Supplies (7/6/11)

Ok , now who did all the hard work ?? :lol: Nice job mate.
Nev 
GB


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## Paul H (7/6/11)

Can you make beer with it?.

Cheers

Paul


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## markws (15/6/11)

Hi Guys,

Apologies - i did not see the recent replies to the thread. Yes - it has been used for several batches including a decent crack at doing a Gryphon Cluster bomber (an excellent beer by Nev). It still feels like i am getting to know the system and appears to be returning higher efficiencies that expected esp against my previous set-up (esky styled mash tun. The 10 ring mongalian burner - is great for the mash tun, but would consider migrating to a larger burner for the boil - I haven't yet had a boil over however, it takes a longer time than expected to reach a slow rolling boil. Definately enjoy the electric HLT and the set-up seems to work well with double batches. I have not enjoyed the plate chiller and have migrated back to using an immersion chiller and re-circulating the wort. Definately the money spent on the gas system was worth it - to date it has been fault feel, easy to use and makes step mash too easy - highly recommend this aspect of the system to anyone. One thought i have had is setting up the mash tun to rotate (similar to the more beer system) to make life easier in removing the spent grain and would love self priming pumps. Lastly I shall in the near future possibly change the temp controllers - they work fine however they are not straight forward to be able to change the setting quickly - i prefer the mash master styled units (personally)

Hope this helps anyone building a similar system.

Cheers

Mark WS


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## Online Brewing Supplies (15/6/11)

markws said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Apologies - i did not see the recent replies to the thread. Yes - it has been used for several batches including a decent crack at doing a Gryphon Cluster bomber (an excellent beer by Nev). It still feels like i am getting to know the system and appears to be returning higher efficiencies that expected esp against my previous set-up (esky styled mash tun. The 10 ring mongalian burner - is great for the mash tun, but would consider migrating to a larger burner for the boil - I haven't yet had a boil over however, it takes a longer time than expected to reach a slow rolling boil. Definately enjoy the electric HLT and the set-up seems to work well with double batches. I have not enjoyed the plate chiller and have migrated back to using an immersion chiller and re-circulating the wort. Definately the money spent on the gas system was worth it - to date it has been fault feel, easy to use and makes step mash too easy - highly recommend this aspect of the system to anyone. One thought i have had is setting up the mash tun to rotate (similar to the more beer system) to make life easier in removing the spent grain and would love self priming pumps. Lastly I shall in the near future possibly change the temp controllers - they work fine however they are not straight forward to be able to change the setting quickly - i prefer the mash master styled units (personally)
> 
> ...


Ahhhh the Gryphon Cluster Bomber, that has me drooling :icon_drool2: I am going to do a mid strength of this one and even may be a light version, full coverage Cluster bombing.
If your pump is in the right spot you dont need self primer, mine moves around all over the joint, upside down , on its side. Trip over the thing all the time.
Four ring for the kettle with and adjustable reg will get you there.
Nev
GB


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## joelireland (2/11/11)

markws said:


> 4	STC Brass closed gas solenoid valve 2W160 220v closed electrically opened.




Hi Mark and all,

I am new to this forum (an aussie homebrewer living in Norway sick of the less than optimal local beer they dish up) but I am investigating a Brutus 10 type set up and am wondering if there are any issues that you are aware of with using a solenoid valve not suited to flammable gasses (ref the STC valve you are using)? On the STC site it states for inert gas is ok but I am just trying to work out if there would be any safety issues with flammable gas or not. 

Impressive rig by the way! Am going to copy quite a few design aspects! Well done.


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