# Timothy Taylor Landlord Ale



## GMK

Hi

Does anyone have a recipe for Timothy Taylor Landlord Ale.
Been told taht it is all Golden Promise Malt.

But need alcohol %
Yeast type, IBU's and what hops.

Thanks in advance...


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## GMK

just found out hops are Fuggles 1st addition, EKG second addition and styrian Goldings third edition.

20 - 40 IBU's but dont know the yeast .


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## dicko

GMK said:


> Hi
> 
> Does anyone have a recipe for Timothy Taylor Landlord Ale.
> Been told taht it is all Golden Promise Malt.
> 
> But need alcohol %
> Yeast type, IBU's and what hops.
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> [post="64077"][/post]​



Hi Ken,
According to my info Golden Promise is the go with some British crystal and some Belgian Aromatic.
Alc BV 4.4%
IBU 33
Fuggles and Ekg for bittering
EKG flavour addition
Styrian Golding for Aroma
Yeast WY 1028 London Ale

Hope this helps - sounds like a nice drop!
Cheers


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## dicko

Ken,
I believe Melanoidan is a substitute for Belgian Aromatic.
Cheers


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## Peter Wadey

Hi Dicko,
Where did you get the ABV from?
I know the bottled product is only 4.1%, as I've had a few.
This makes it a bit more of a challenge for GMK.

A lovely beer and one of my all-time favourites.

Rgds,
Pete


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## THE DRUNK ARAB

GMK, here is recipe from BYOBRAAH.

For 80% efficiency and 23 litres

OG 1042
IBU35
FG 1009
Colour 10EBC/6 SRM
ABV 4.4%

4.28kg Golden Promise
39g Styrian Goldings (90 minutes)
32g Fuggles (90 minutes)
15g Goldings (15 minutes)

1028, 1275 0r any similar English Ale yeast.

You would have to adjust according to efficiency and AA% of your hops.

C&B
TDA


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## chiller

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> GMK, here is recipe from BYOBRAAH.
> 
> For 80% efficiency and 23 litres
> 
> OG 1042
> IBU35
> FG 1009
> Colour 10EBC/6 SRM
> ABV 4.4%
> 
> 4.28kg Golden Promise
> 39g Styrian Goldings (90 minutes)
> 32g Fuggles (90 minutes)
> 15g Goldings (15 minutes)
> 
> 1028, 1275 0r any similar English Ale yeast.
> 
> You would have to adjust according to efficiency and AA% of your hops.
> 
> C&B
> TDA
> [post="64115"][/post]​




At one stage here in Adelaide at the Floccs one of the more affluent brewers brought along a bottle of very fresh TTL and it really did live up to all the praise.

It has a far more complex flavour than you would ecpect from just GP on its own [not saying that here is anything else mind you].

Speculation ::::::::::::::::::::::

Take 2 litres of first runnings and boil them down to 1 litre and add them into the boil -- do it with 4 if you have a large enough pot to boil it down

Stick with the hops as TDA has indicated but don't go too high because it is malt balanced.

As for yeast WLP 005 would work well.

Steve.


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## Sean

Taylor's beers, Landlord in particular, behave completely unlike any other beer in the cellar (undergoing an extraordinarily vigorous secondary fermentation in the cask) and require _very _different handling. This would lead me to believe that Taylors have their own unique yeast strain contributing much of their distinctive flavour, and their website backs this up.

Taylor's website confirms that they use 100% Golden Promise malt. (Presumably from Fawcetts). Taylors colour their dark beers with caramel. I'd be very suprised if they use any character malts at all, and certainly not nasty foreign imports like Belgian Aromatic - the colour of Landlord is consistent with straight Pale Ale Malt. Apparently they do use a little crystal & amber, but I would think that would go mostly in Best Bitter (& Porter), rather than Golden Best & Landlord.

I've never consumed much Landlord in the bottle, but the real version (of which I have consumed considerable quantities) is distinctly hoppy, without being identifiable as any one particular character hop. Taylors website says "The traditional varieties have remained unchanged for over 70 years to produce classic aromas on the beers - as beer used to taste.", which (if true) would seem to rule out Styrian Goldings. The website confirms that the last addition of hops is in the hop-back with the hot wort dropped on top (a favorite method amongst the more traditional old family breweries). Landlord is definitely not dry hopped (it would be very messy in the cellar if it was). 

FWIW, the cask version has an OG of 1042 and an ABV of 4.3% (though it always gives an impression of being stronger than that). The cask beer is primed with sugar.

You can be sure they use the absolute best quality everything - they can afford to (their beers are always top quality but notoriously expensive).


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## dicko

Hi Peter Wadey,
All the info in my above post came from "beer captured"
For a HB recipe it is probably pretty close.

Hi Sean,
The cask beer you describe sounds fantastic but probably difficult to reproduce a genuine sample at home due to secret yeasts/ingredients, cask equipment etc.

GMK,
Let us know how it all goes,

Cheers


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## big d

mmmm poor old ken. looks like more research to produce this no doubt great drop of beer.good luck ken keep all informed how you get on.
when in perth next month i will see if the international beer shop has it in stock so i can sample it.
unfortunately it will not be as fresh as sean has sampled but at least i may get an idea as to what you are chasing.

cheers
big d


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## Sean

dicko said:


> Hi Peter Wadey,
> All the info in my above post came from "beer captured"
> For a HB recipe it is probably pretty close.
> 
> Hi Sean,
> The cask beer you describe sounds fantastic but probably difficult to reproduce a genuine sample at home due to secret yeasts/ingredients, cask equipment etc.
> 
> GMK,
> Let us know how it all goes,
> 
> Cheers
> [post="64152"][/post]​


I'm sure there are lots of commercial brewers who would love to reproduce Landlord - after all, it's won Champion Beer of Britain no less than four times and is a consistent good seller despite its high price. (And, having tasted a sample from the cask that won in 1999, I can assure you it was a well deserved and clear winner.)


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## Boots

I realise this doesn't help Ken, but ..

I had a bottle of this recently, and didn't realise till i got it home that it was 2 weeks past it's "best by" date.

It tasted incredibly fresh and hoppy with loads of aroma. A fantastic beer, whatever the recipe.

Post back here with your results Ken, as I'd be interested to brew this also one day.


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## GMK

ok - brewed it today....

went for a double batch here is what i used - set promash at 65%
9.6kg Golden Promise
200 melanoidan
100 british Crystal 300ebc
200 Cara Munich
Single infusion at 66-67 degrees C

Hops:
MH 40gms Styrian Goldings
boil for 90 mins with 50 gms of Fuggles and 50 gms of Styrian
15mins from end of boil added 1 tab of whirlfloc/irish moss and 20gms of EKG

Fly sparged 52 odd lts into the kettle at 1045.
Last runnings 1020.
After boil - 33 ltrs at 1065 in the fermenter - added 14 ltrs of water to get it upto 47 ltrs at 1045 with 35 IBU's.

Tasted really nice in the fermenter.
Pitched 1968 yeast starter - will let u know how i go.

Found a web site interview taht micheal Jackdon - beer hunter- did with the brewer - hetalked of three hop additions - in order-
1- fuggles
2- styrian
3- EKG

So went that way.
Any one wants the promash recipe just pm me and i will email it...


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## kook

Sean said:


> FWIW, the cask version has an OG of 1042 and an ABV of 4.3% (though it always gives an impression of being stronger than that). The cask beer is primed with sugar.
> 
> You can be sure they use the absolute best quality everything - they can afford to (their beers are always top quality but notoriously expensive).
> [post="64144"][/post]​



That is one thing I love about Landlord, the consistancy. I've never seen it sold anywhere that didnt keep their beer in top quality. That said I've generally only tried it at well known real ale pubs, or festivals.


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## GMK

Ok - here are some pics from the Brew Day.



AG Setup


52 Ltrs approx sparged into the Kettle.



Brew Boys...
Left to Right
Ross, Tony (First All Grain Brew), my Daughter Megan ( Beer Goddess in Waiting)
GMK rugged up as i was coming down with the flu on the day and David.


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## Sean

kook said:


> Sean said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, the cask version has an OG of 1042 and an ABV of 4.3% (though it always gives an impression of being stronger than that). The cask beer is primed with sugar.
> 
> You can be sure they use the absolute best quality everything - they can afford to (their beers are always top quality but notoriously expensive).
> [post="64144"][/post]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is one thing I love about Landlord, the consistancy. I've never seen it sold anywhere that didnt keep their beer in top quality. That said I've generally only tried it at well known real ale pubs, or festivals.
> [post="64248"][/post]​
Click to expand...

It's a pretty safe bet just about anywhere - pubs that bother with it, but serve it badly are few & far between.


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## wee stu

Ken, I have a Landlord(ish) beer - from the Beer Captured source material, roughly - waiting to be bottled. 

We will have to organise a tasting session in a little while


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## Peter Wadey

Dicko wrote:


> All the info in my above post came from "beer captured"


Ahhh!
Dicko, I think I've been there!
From memory the gravities are for the HB recipes provided, not the actual beers. Something for future reference. 

All the best,
Pete


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## KoNG

How did this turn out GMK...?
any thoughts or changes you would make to the recipe.?
this will probably be my next brew after the weekends amarillo APA.
would love to know how it turned out for you.

Cheers
KoNG


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## GMK

Ok - I had 2 recipes - one with all Golden Promise and one that had 
95 % Golden promise 
2 % melaniodan...
1% Crystal 150
2% CaraMunich
Hops Styrian, Fuggles, Styrian and EKG to 35 IBUs

After trying the original and comparing it to mine - before the infection showed up - took 5-6 months.
It was not that close.

Next i will do all Golden Promise.

Hope This Helps


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## KoNG

hmmm, bummer about the infection.. did you pinpoint the source.?
i think i will add a little crystal, but as you said majority will be golden promise.
During some more research today i ended up on BeerAdvocate, locating someone who said he lives for "TTLPA" and hopes it will be his last ever beer and it wil be served at his funeral.!! My point is, that a guy of such devotion starts his review of the beer as.... "A classic english Pale ale.. made from Saaz hops"

hmmmm, maybe thats what you were missing GMK.

Does this guy know something we dont..?


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## GMK

the hops i used were from Research...

No mention of Saaz - but styrian, fuggles anfd ekg.


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## neonmeate

i made a landlord clone a couple of years ago that was VERY close in a side by side comparison (and i would tell you if it wasn't) - here it is

http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=4059

I personally find it hard to believe that this beer is 100% golden promise (even though that's what the evidence points to) - fawcett's golden promise is quite pale - perhaps they get the malt kilned to their own specifications.
in any case i taste a bit of toffee in the beer that could be done either by crystal malt or wort caramelisation. 250g crystal seemed to get it just right for me.

and TREAT YOUR WATER! english pale ales taste crap with soft water. chuck some gypsum in.


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## Sean

neonmeate said:


> i made a landlord clone a couple of years ago that was VERY close in a side by side comparison (and i would tell you if it wasn't) - here it is
> 
> http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=4059
> 
> I personally find it hard to believe that this beer is 100% golden promise (even though that's what the evidence points to) - fawcett's golden promise is quite pale - perhaps they get the malt kilned to their own specifications.


Possibly, or (more likely, IMO) a very vigorous boil

Also, don't forget the possibilitity that Taylors add a small amount of caramel to make the colour consistant - their dark beers (Ram Tam and Dark Mild) are coloured entirely with caramel (Landlord and Golden Best with added caramel respectively).



> and TREAT YOUR WATER! english pale ales taste crap with soft water. chuck some gypsum in.
> [post="107387"][/post]​


Yep.

To get spot on I'd suspect you'd need Taylors yeast, or at least a very similar Yorkshire yeast, and an extremely vigourous secondary fermentation (sucrose driven, IIRC). The level of secondary fermentation in cask of Taylors cask beers is *massively *higher than any other brewery I know, and I would imagine that they put the bottled beers through something similar in conditioning tanks to get it as close as they can to the cask beers.


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## ausdb

I promised Stuster that I would post some info about the TTLLPA that I had recently made so here it is. The recipe was worked out based on a bit of googling and the discussion here.

Basically its all golden promise the LME was only to make up for undershooting my gravity a bit. The colour in a standup comparison is a bit lighter, the boil was for 90 mins and I did try and caramelise some of the 1st runnings but didn't reduce it down very much. Next time I will get a small pot and really boil about a litrte of two down to a syrup if I can.

I am amazed at the depth of flavour which one malt can provide

The styrian goldings are a strange hop samples from the fermenter and for the 1st month really had me wondering if it was going to be any good or not and I kept subjecting poor old GL to random taste testings but for his troubles gave him 1/2 a keg of it! Next time I think the IBU's could be jacked up slightly or my hops may have been a bit old as it was not quite as bitter as the real thing.

I have the Beer Captured recipe but based on this one I will not be bothering with the specialty malts but next time I will split the batch and 1028 for 1/2 as a comparison with 1968. The only refrences I have found regarding TT's yeast is that it is proprietary and a "Yorkshire" strain.

Cheers

Ausdb :beer: 

Brewing Date: Thursday March 16, 2006
Head Brewer: Ausdb
Asst Brewer: 
Recipe: Timothy Taylor Landlord vers 1.0

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 29.00 Wort Size (L): 29.00
Total Grain (Kg): 6.04
Anticipated OG: 1.047 Plato: 11.62
Anticipated EBC: 9.4
Anticipated IBU: 33.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Actual OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.44
Actual FG: 1.012 Plato: 3.07

Alc by Weight: 3.49 by Volume: 4.47 From Measured Gravities.
ADF: 73.2 RDF 60.9 Apparent & Real Degree of Fermentation.

Actual Mash System Efficiency: 65 %
Anticipated Points From Mash: 42.79
Actual Points From Mash: 39.97


Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour

Raw Pre-Boil Amounts - only targeted volume/gravity and evaporation
rate taken into account:

Pre-Boil Wort Size: 34.12 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.040 SG 9.93 Plato

With sparge water, mash water, additional infusions, vessel losses, top-up
water and evaporation rate recorded in the Water Needed Calculator:

Water Needed Pre-Boil Wort Size: 40.01 L
Water Needed Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.034 SG 8.51 Plato


Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
95.0 5.74 kg. TF Golden Promise Pale Ale Ma UK 1.037 6
5.0 0.30 kg. Muntons DME - Light England 1.046 10

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
23.20 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.75 13.3 80 min.
32.48 g. Fuggle WCB Plug 4.80 17.5 80 min.
18.98 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 3.80 2.0 15 min.
8.83 g. Goldings - E.K. WCB Plug 4.20 0.6 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1968 London Extra Special Bitter


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## Stuster

Thanks for the info ausdb. Good to hear how this recipe went. More hops then. I'd also read that the hops were fuggles for bittering, ekg for flavour and styrian goldings for aroma. (From a Michael Jackson article)

It's getting a bit cold for ales here at the mo, so that brew will have to wait till Spring. Looking forward to trying. Cheers.


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## Guest Lurker

ausdb said:


> I kept subjecting poor old GL to random taste testings but for his troubles gave him 1/2 a keg of it! Next time I think the IBU's could be jacked up slightly or my hops may have been a bit old as it was not quite as bitter as the real thing.



That half keg is currently on the fifth "Guest Beer" tap in my bar, and it is a truly excellent beer. It would be even better if I had my real ale setup built. We did a taste test against the real thing but at a bbq after a large number of beers and all I can remember is that it was VERY close in flavour but a bit lighter in colour. I have another real TTL in the fridge for a more considered tasting at some point. But its interesting to note that
-near the end of fermentation, by the time AusDB had grabbed a sample and brought it over it was tasting of diacetyl, so it was left on the yeast longer
-once finished fermentation, it was tasting "odd" . Very dry, bit overhopped for the malt, and the Styrian Goldings had added a strong spicy/perfumy/vanillary aroma that dominated
-after a few weeks in the keg, the edge has dropped off the hops, the malt flavour is more prominent, the aroma has reduced to a hint of spice, and it is a really well balanced incredibly drinkable beer. 

In fact, I think I better go grab a pint now while it is at its best.


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## ausdb

Guest Lurker said:


> In fact, I think I better go grab a pint now while it is at its best.
> [post="128309"][/post]​



GL I might need a litre for the next wcb comp! I managed to freeze my serving fridge for a week whilst I was in Sydney  and its not tasting quite as good now its thawed out again


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## Guest Lurker

ausdb said:


> Guest Lurker said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, I think I better go grab a pint now while it is at its best.
> [post="128309"][/post]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GL I might need a litre for the next wcb comp! I managed to freeze my serving fridge for a week whilst I was in Sydney  and its not tasting quite as good now its thawed out again
> [post="128318"][/post]​
Click to expand...


Now, now, I have already taken a bottle from that keg for that comp, cant have you being a copycat and submitting the same beer can we?


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## Boots

sorry to go slightly off topic on you, but I've arranged the Royal Oak in O-Connell Street Nth Adelaide to order in a case or two of the Landlord. Should be in in the next week or two if any adelaidians want to try the real thing.


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## GMK

let us know the price Boots - i will be for a couple.

Could do a bulk buy and get a carton between all of us.


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## ausdb

Guest Lurker said:


> Now, now, I have already taken a bottle from that keg for that comp, cant have you being a copycat and submitting the same beer can we?
> [post="128328"][/post]​



Ok you can ghost enter it for me  as long as you are prepared to split 50/50 if it places anywhere


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## Boots

Tell you what Ken, when I start volunteering you for stuff, you can volunteer me for stuff <_< . Deal?


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## Ross

Guest Lurker said:


> Very dry, bit overhopped for the malt, and the Styrian Goldings had added a strong spicy/perfumy/vanillary aroma that dominated
> -after a few weeks in the keg, the edge has dropped off the hops, the malt flavour is more prominent, the aroma has reduced to a hint of spice, and it is a really well balanced incredibly drinkable beer.
> 
> [post="128309"][/post]​



What Styrians did you use - Slo or NZ?

I've recently made a landlord clone, with NZ Styrian flowers, this certainly started with a vanilla overtone which was out of character to landlord (bloody nice though), which has now faded away leaving a hint of spice as you describe - tasting awesome now. must pop out & buy a bottle of Landlord for a comparison.

cheers Ross


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## ausdb

Ross said:


> What Styrians did you use - Slo or NZ?
> 
> I've recently made a landlord clone, with NZ Styrian flowers, this certainly started with a vanilla overtone which was out of character to landlord (bloody nice though), which has now faded away leaving a hint of spice as you describe - tasting awesome now. must pop out & buy a bottle of Landlord for a comparison.



Slovenian plugs and at 15 mins only, I wonder how long it will take to mellow if I use them at the end of boil. What was your hopping schedule Ross?


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## Mr Bond

Sean said:


> To get spot on I'd suspect you'd need Taylors yeast, or at least a very similar Yorkshire yeast, *and an extremely vigourous secondary fermentation (sucrose driven, IIRC). The level of secondary fermentation in cask of Taylors cask beers is massively higher than any other brewery I know, and I would imagine that they put the bottled beers through something similar in conditioning tanks to get it as close as they can to the cask beers.*



The secondary fermentation that Sean mentions here has me intrigued.
I was under the impression that secondary in a cask was for carbonation purposes,so the ale could be hand pumped.In essence priming and bottle conditioning are a secondary fermentation.

So what Sean is saying that after primary you would rack the beer into another fermenter that has been primed with sucrose and allow the beer to fire up again consume the sugars,as well (I'm guessing)as chewing on some more malt sugars for a better attenuation.

would you then rack to a tertiary for clearing or bottle straight from secondary.?

What would be the advantages/outcomes of doing this as opposed to including the sucrose in primary and omitting a secondary.?

Any one got any info?


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## Ross

The Timothy Taylor site takes you through their process step by step. The beer is fermented for 7 days than kegged & put in the cellar for a further 7 days maturating "A slow secondary fermentation of residual or added sugars gives beer it's 'condition.'" After this Isinglass finings & priming sugar are added "the traditional way to give zest & condition to sparkling beers"
according to their flow chart, the bottled beer doesn't go through the same maturation stage as the cask beer, it is racked to a tank where it is filtered & conditioned before being bottled.

cheers Ross


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## Sean

Ross said:


> The Timothy Taylor site takes you through their process step by step. The beer is fermented for 7 days than kegged & put in the cellar for a further 7 days maturating "A slow secondary fermentation of residual or added sugars gives beer it's 'condition.'" After this Isinglass finings & priming sugar are added "the traditional way to give zest & condition to sparkling beers"
> according to their flow chart, the bottled beer doesn't go through the same maturation stage as the cask beer, it is racked to a tank where it is filtered & conditioned before being bottled.
> 
> cheers Ross


As Ross implied, my comments apply primarily to the original Cask version of Landlord. One can only guess at what secondary fermentation the bottled version goes through - I don't know anyone with inside information on Taylors who's been particularly interested in finding out about their bottled beers, which (although decent) lack the character and finesse of their cask beers.


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## Mr Bond

Thanks for the link Ross.

And thankyou Sean for taking the time to reply :beer: 

Interesting to note that the flow chart shows Sugar on it to the right @ the boil stage.


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## chillamacgilla73

Currently at the tail end of a 3.5 week holiday in the UK - main reason for visit is my brother in laws wedding. I have been getting stuck into the real ales on a daily basis at many good pubs - some of which Kook recommended( :beer: ). I had tried TTLS before leaving from a bottle and I cannot emphasize enough the massive increase in hop flavour and aroma that a freshly pulled pint displays(Commonsense really I guess but it is all new to me). The wedding was a very lavish affair with a cask each of TTLS and Oldershaw Breweries Regal Blonde [http://www.oldershawbrewery.com/blonde.htm ]. Pic attached of the first pint of TTLS being poured by the father of the bride....excuse the head, I did mention first pint...The freshness of the hop flavour was outstanding and luckily there were only 8-9 guests(Of 130) on the TTLS.  Sweet.

The anticlimax of getting home will be soon replaced by the joy of my first AG brew being a TTLS and bottling a german pilsener that has been lagering for two months. 

Anyone brewed the previously posted recipes? If so, any comments or recommendations for a partial masher about to metamorphosize into an AGer?
Cheers
Chilla
:beer:


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## sinkas

That looks great Chilla, relatives of style and substance..
are these people rural folk, as I have never seen good beer served at either of the couple of pommy marriage shin-digs I have been to..


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## GMK

OK - i am brewing this tomorrow at the BrewInn Barossa.

If any Adelaideons are up my way - drop by.
Dough in is at 10.30am
W
ill be trying the 100% GP Recipe and using the proper Wyest Timothy Taylor Yeast courtesy of Voosher - Thanks 

Now - i am using Rain water - what would be the best water profile to use.
I am aiming for at least 40 ltrs.
So any help on the water profile salts to add would be welcomed.

TIA.


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## Stuster

Using the Yorkshire profile in Promash will probably get you close enough, Ken.

Name Ca Mg Na SO4 Cl HCO3
Yorkshire 105.0 17.0 23.0 66.0 30.0 153.0


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## bconnery

sinkas said:


> That looks great Chilla, relatives of style and substance..
> are these people rural folk, as I have never seen good beer served at either of the couple of pommy marriage shin-digs I have been to..



I was at a wedding in the UK recently where they had Harvey's Best Bitter in kegs. 

Yes, they where rural folk...


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## GMK

OK - Thanks to all the input.

Have the water profile sorted - will be adding the following to every 20ltrs of Rain Water...
1 tspn Epsom Salts
3 tspn Chalk
1gram of Non Iodised Table Salt.

Will be using the 100% GP Grain Bill.
Not sure if i will be doing a decotion/biol down of 8 ltrs to 4ltrs to add back or not.
Depends on the time through the day.


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## Screwtop

chillamacgilla73 said:


> Pic attached of the first pint of TTLS being poured by the father of the bride....excuse the head




He doesn't look all that rough chilla


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## tangent

so how's it tasting Ken?


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## GMK

It is still in the primary...

Will check Gravity readings later tonight or tomorrow.

If good will rack and after tasting decide if it gets a handful of Styrian.


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## NRB

Updates?


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## 3GumsBrewing

NRB said:


> Updates?



God yes, give us updates! :beerbang: 
I tried a bottle of this from Dan Murphys. It is tops!


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## Hutch

NRB said:


> Updates?


...any updates/tasting notes fellas?
I'll be brewing it on Sunday, using Wyeast 1469. 
Really looking forward to having this one on tap!!!


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## Ross

Hutch said:


> ...any updates/tasting notes fellas?
> I'll be brewing it on Sunday, using Wyeast 1469.
> Really looking forward to having this one on tap!!!



What's your recipe Hutch?

Cheers ross


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## Hutch

Ross said:


> What's your recipe Hutch?
> 
> Cheers ross



My first attempt at this one, so not expecting miracles yet!
Recipe based on a few earlier posts from GMK, neonmeate and ausdb:

2 x 20Ltr batch (40Ltr in boiler)
Water treatment for Yorkshire profile (4gm Gypsum, 6gm Epsom Salts, 8gm Chalk)
8kg Golden Promise Ale (3 Ltrs first runnings caramelised on the stove)
65gm Fuggles pellets @ 60min (5.7%aa)
40gm Slovenian Styrian Goldings pellets @ 30min (4.0%aa)
50gm Kent Goldings pellets @ 10min (4.2%aa)
40gm Slovenian Styrian Goldings pellets @ flame out (steeped for 20 minutes).

No-chilled into 2 cubes, will get into fermenter as soon as I free up the fridge, and aim for 18 deg primary.

Even with caramelising a few Ltrs, the wort was quite pale indeed. I'd probably go a little crystal malt next time, and possibly caramelise a little more of the first runnings.

Lovely hoppy beer this one.
I've a few EKG plugs as backup, to throw into secondary should I feel the urge  

I'm still keen to hear how GMK's more recent attempt turned-out. 
Any thoughts on what you'd change next time?


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## kirem

I have done some work towards getting a TTLL style working.

100% Golden Promise malt grain bill (that we can source in Australia) comes out very thin and I found to be a disappointment. I 'caramelised' 5L down to about 500mL on the gas stove, it takes a long time so be prepared for a 'hurry up and wait'. It still comes out very thin.

Did all the above at 69 degC to try and get a fuller more un-fermentable beer, it was better but still quite thin and more sweet than TTLL.

So, after more websearch I have decided that maybe the 100% GP malt claim is a play on words or I didnt interpret it correctly. As GP is a variety, it could be made into any type of malt, pale and crystal for example. Timothy Taylor could also get the barley malted differently to what the rest of us get. Their web site claims it is kilned at 150F (65C) which from what I understand is quite low compared with other British Pale Malts and is also quite low but at least closer to a Pilsner malt kilning temperature or maybe this is the kilning temperature for GP. I'll PM Wes and see if I can get a response about all this.

Using a GP Pale as a base malt and 12% melanoidin has given me a very close copy of it. Munich would work as well. Hmmm German malt in a British style!

The yeast strain seems to be important, but I wonder how a true top cropping yeast would compare. The fermenter shape and size also makes a big difference and is overlooked a lot as it has a large influence on this style of beer. These beers are fermented in large open fermenters and the yeast is skimmed at 3-4 days, mainly for re-pitching. The ability for CO2 to leave the fermentation more easily in an open fermenter when compared with a tall thin fermenter, plays a huge role in the yeast metabolism and resultant flavour/aroma of the beer. The pressure created (or not) also has a large role to play and it is easier to skim off the yeast in an open fermenter.

I am also suspect of using the Yorkshire water profile, as the water for this comes from a spring. I think a good pale ale water profile will do the trick

I use EKG, Styrian Goldings and Fuggles and so do a few others I know of that make this style. I think TT use a hop back.

Don't forget the all important overall balance, this ale does it very very well.

Let us know your thoughts and how the beer comes out, Hutch.

C&B, Kirk.


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## tangent

> 100% Golden Promise malt grain bill comes out very thin and I found to be a disappointment.



It's quite underwhelming after trying their MO malt. Definitely needs some extra help.


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## Guest Lurker

kirem said:


> Using a GP Pale as a base malt and 12% melanoidin has given me a very close copy of it.
> 
> 
> C&B, Kirk.



Is that a typo, or did 12 % melanoidin really get close to the colour and taste of TTL? Just seems like a lot to me.


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## kirem

Sorry, it was IMC munich (12 EBC) at 12.5%.

about 3% Melanoidin (70EBC) gives the same colour. I am brewing tomorrow with melanoidin. I need to get some more TTLL.


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## mikem108

I think Stu mentioned it before but although its mentioned that its all GP, I think it fails to mention that some of the GP has been made into crystal !


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## Hutch

Nice detail Kirem. You've obviously spent a bit of time on this one!
This was the first time I'd used GP malt, and was very surprised at how light in colour the first runnings were (almost like a Pilsner). 
Unfortunately I may have mashed a little on the low side (~65deg). So I guess I won't be too dissapointed if it's a little off the mark.

When I had it on tap last month it certainly gave the impression that there was some character malt in the bill, both in taste and in EBC. For such a tasty beer, it's worth making a few mistakes, just so that you have an excuse to brew it again. And again..

I'll post feedback once I've got it in the keg.

PS. Anyone know of any retail outlets for this beer in Melbourne??? (G&G used to have it, but not at the moment).

Hutch.


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## kirem

http://www.beerstore.com.au/detail.asp?beerID=354
http://www.megabeer.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=41

are two online shops. I have used megabeer, they sometimes hard to get a response out of, but have not let me down.

I haven't purchased from beerstore.


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## Hutch

kirem said:


> http://www.beerstore.com.au/detail.asp?beerID=354
> http://www.megabeer.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=41
> 
> are two online shops. I have used megabeer, they sometimes hard to get a response out of, but have not let me down.
> 
> I haven't purchased from beerstore.



Curse this forum - I just spent another $60 :chug: 

Cheers kirem!


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## kirem

Give me a bell when they arrive and I will come around and discuss the merits of them :beer:


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## kirem

wesmith said:


> As you have probably guessed there are GP malts and GP malts. The GP that TT use was exclusively supplied (and may very well still be) by Thomas Fawcett and is a floor malted malt. TF are very picky about the GP barley they buy and in any event most of it is contract grown these days. The Bairds GP we now see here in Australia is pnuematically malted in the "modern" method and simply has nothing like the flavour and aroma of the floor malted style.
> 
> The "kilning" temp you quote will be the "curing" temp, in fact sometimes they will use an even lower number than 150F. There is still a final kilning though at much higher temps - usually aroung 95 to 105C but only after the moisture levels are below 2% or so. This is the stage where the final colour is fixed along with the flavour compounds. The process of floor malting and in the TF case, direct fired kilning with anthracite coals produces a very unique malt. There are only 2 maltings I think, left in the UK that still do this and then ONLY for their ale malts. Hope this helps.
> 
> Cheers, Wes



This should clear things up.

Thanks alot Wes.


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## bugwan

Damn, I'm fresh out of anthracite coals :unsure:  

I've never attempted a TTLL brew, but I've experienced the original many times....superb. I'll add a recipe to my long list of 'future brews'...


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## NRB

Hutch said:


> PS. Anyone know of any retail outlets for this beer in Melbourne??? (G&G used to have it, but not at the moment).


Hutch, 1st Choice in Balwyn has it on the shelves (I bought a few bottles from them a few weeks ago).


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## Hutch

Cheers for the tip NRB. Will definitely check it out once SWMBO has forgotten about this latest purchase!

The 12 assorted bottles from megabeer.com arrived today (8 days delivery???).

Including delivery cost, $5 per pint bottle of TTLA is cheap in my books - almost the same price as a pint in ol' Blighty!


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## Quintrex

So can anyone tell me whether it is possible to get TF malts in aus anymore?
Or if not does anyone know the reason why its all bairds now? Price?

Cheers
Q


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## drsmurto

*BUMP*  

You guessed it - another fan of TTL. Drank many a pint of that during my 2 year stint in the UK. A very very nice drop indeed. One of the main reasons i took this hobby back up again when i got back. Now that i have made it to the dark side i thought its time i had a crack at this.

As others have done i have spent many hours researching this beer, talking to others, info from pommy forums etc.

Reading this thread it seems that the GP malt we get here is very underwhelming. So how do i go about changing this recipe accordingly? stick with GP and add up to 5% crystal? Switch to MO? 

What about yeast? 

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## Weizguy

DrSmurto said:


> *BUMP*
> 
> You guessed it - another fan of TTL. Drank many a pint of that during my 2 year stint in the UK. A very very nice drop indeed. One of the main reasons i took this hobby back up again when i got back. Now that i have made it to the dark side i thought its time i had a crack at this.
> 
> As others have done i have spent many hours researching this beer, talking to others, info from pommy forums etc.
> 
> Reading this thread it seems that the GP malt we get here is very underwhelming. So how do i go about changing this recipe accordingly? stick with GP and add up to 5% crystal? Switch to MO?
> 
> What about yeast?
> 
> Cheers
> DrSmurto


IMHO, if you're seeking more flavour, and can't get hold of the genuine Fawcett GP malt (and we obviously can't), I'd be trying another floor-malted British grain, such as Maris Otter.

That might really mess with the purists, but may produce a closer taste than any lesser malt, GP or not.

If you can get hold of the malt specs, you can then decide if you need any crystal for minor colour variations.

Cheers
Seth


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## jayse

Les the Weizguy said:


> snipped>
> 
> I'd be trying another floor-malted British grain, such as Maris Otter.



Don't think we can get floor malted M.O anymore either, the bairds isn't.


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## Ross

jayse said:


> Don't think we can get floor malted M.O anymore either, the bairds isn't.



Correct Jayse. Bairds malt is not floor malted. 

We are looking at bringing floor malted in but the cost is a lot higher. Hopefully we can keep it at an accptable level.

cheers Ross


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## Tony

Ross said:


> We are looking at bringing floor malted in




   

Just you or maltcraft Ross.

extra cost is fine but postage on it would kill.

cheers


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## GMK

DrSmurto said:


> *BUMP*
> 
> You guessed it - another fan of TTL. Drank many a pint of that during my 2 year stint in the UK. A very very nice drop indeed. One of the main reasons i took this hobby back up again when i got back. Now that i have made it to the dark side i thought its time i had a crack at this.
> 
> As others have done i have spent many hours researching this beer, talking to others, info from pommy forums etc.
> 
> Reading this thread it seems that the GP malt we get here is very underwhelming. So how do i go about changing this recipe accordingly? stick with GP and add up to 5% crystal? Switch to MO?
> 
> What about yeast?
> 
> Cheers
> DrSmurto



I still have some of teh TTL Yeast that was done in the bulk buy - stored in the fridge - should still be good.
you are welcome to try some - just drop by the BrewInn.

Ken...


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## peter.b

Tim Taylor's landlord, you know a great beer, but very difficult to simulate. Have read an article in a british publication re. landlord. The yeast strain is commercially available. Try wyeast 1463, I have spoken personally to a rep of wyeast and let me know of this little gem. They obtain there malt/s from scottish growers, but can't help with variety. Top choice!!!!!


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## hoohaaman

Sorry to drag up an old thread,but I was wondering if wy 1469 is the correct yeast for TTLLA?Had a look on the wyeast site and 1469 isn't even mentioned.

I see Ross has it.But don't know a lot about UK yeasts.

Cheers


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## tazman1967

Yes..It is the yeast. Split the pack into starters or slats. It is a LIMITED release.


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## hoohaaman

Cheers tazman,I thought it limited or seasonal.Will order some instantly


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Ross said:


> Correct Jayse. Bairds malt is not floor malted.
> 
> We are looking at bringing floor malted in but the cost is a lot higher. Hopefully we can keep it at an accptable level.
> 
> cheers Ross


Ross any chance of it making its way to Perth?
GB


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## technocat

Just cracked my first keg of TTL. Very well balanced nicely rounded, carbed, well pours up to the top of the glass with around half an inch of head. With Easter just around the corner can't see this lasting long.


Cheers


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## roger mellie

Beernut said:


> Just cracked my first keg of TTL. Very well balanced nicely rounded, carbed, well pours up to the top of the glass with around half an inch of head. With Easter just around the corner can't see this lasting long.
> 
> 
> Cheers



What recipe did you use Beernut?

Cheers

RM


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## technocat

This one Roger

View attachment 25975
as said previously a damn nice drop :chug:


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## technocat

Just realized if you aren't using beersmith you won't be able to open this. Let me know and I will sort it out.

Cheers


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## brendanos

I apologise in advance for the vested self interests of this post, but I couldn't help but share the news. I've just received a stack of very fresh Landlord (arrived in freo 2 weeks ago shipped directly after bottling) and I can confirm that they are drinking incredibly well, infact it's every second beer for me at the moment.

If anyone is interested (69.99/ctn) www.internationalbeershop.com.au or call me on 08 9381 1202.

Cheers
Brendan


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