# Minimal All Grain Setup



## hermanpeckel (1/7/14)

Firstly, thanks to all on this forum for giving me a stack of info on all grain. I've read loads and now I'm really keen to give it a bash.

So, first on the list is equipment. I know what I WANT to buy, but I was hoping to start slowly just in case. I've appropriated my girlfriend's esky for a lauter tun/mash tun and, after a quick trip to Bunnings, I'm halfway through making a copper pipe manifold to go in the bottom of it. I got the info for this from here -

http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue5.4/palmer_sb.html#manifold

Then I hit a bit of a snag - a hot liquor tank and a brewing kettle. Ok, I know I can buy these from the LHBS, but I can't really justify $500+ straight off the bat. I was hoping to purchase a couple of big second hand pots from eBay, but it appears these are rare as rocking horse manure. I'm thinking for a 23 litre batch I'd be needing 30 or 40 litre pots(?)

Does anyone have any suggestions or other possibilities I could try? One of my mates suggested beer kegs with the tops cut off, but these seem hard to come by too.

My other option is to go with a bigger partial mash, but that doesn't have the same appeal. Any ideas much appreciated!

Cheers
HP


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## MastersBrewery (1/7/14)

wait a week or two and my 3v will be for sale in Sydney though. Otherwise watch the for sale thread.

MB


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## n87 (1/7/14)

i have The 80L one of these as my biab pot.
just fits a double
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/Business-/170638/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=gyh-hotsales&_sac=1


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## hermanpeckel (1/7/14)

Sounds good MB! I'm also in Sydney! How much are you asking for it?


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## hermanpeckel (1/7/14)

Thanks n87. I eBayed my fingers off and still didn't find anything like this. Worse case I could buy a set and drill some holes in them to fit taps. That would give me a 27 litre HLT and a 38 litre brew kettle.


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## zarniwoop (1/7/14)

I don't know if they ship but Keg King in Melbourne used to sell kegs with the top cut off and a ball valve fitted at a reasonable price, they may even have an element option as well if you're going electric. I ended up using a $150 (ish) 60L aluminium stock pot from an Asian cooking supply place as I wanted something sturdy.

(Or just do away with all those extra vessels and go BIAB h34r: )


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers (1/7/14)

I would suggest going big with the stock pot - someone suggested here to me when I was looking that I would probably go larger in time. I went for a 70 litre and generally punch out 44 litres of wort in it. It set me back about 180 on Ebay incl postage - there are cheaper ones though. Bought mine of a soga2009 on the ebay.. its listed as high quality and the quality is pretty good, thick based - they do say express delivery, but they courier so this is not so accurate.

If you need sparging pots, you can get 19L pots for $20 at Big W - for a 23L batch your going to need around 15L of sparge water.

How big is your esky?


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## hermanpeckel (1/7/14)

Thanks Zarni! Keg King sure do have plenty of options and pretty good prices. I thought about BIABing, but would rather not if I can avoid it.

SBCB - That is a big part of my problem! Do I go big, knowing that down the track I won't be kicking myself for buying some cheap rubbish that doesn't do the job properly, or do I start small just in case I try it and think it's all too much effort?

Good to know about Big W and the ebay options!

My esky is 27 litres (I think), and I'd be looking at brewing 23 litre batches.


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## manticle (1/7/14)

Hospitality suppliers sell good quality aluminium pots - look for chefinox 4mm. Won't cost you $500 but 40 L would be the absolute minimum if you want to get close to a 20L final volume.

Otherwise keggle if you have a legal source for a keg.


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## slcmorro (1/7/14)

If you're going for as you say, the minimal AG setup possible, 1V BIAB would suit you way better.


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers (1/7/14)

hermanpeckel said:


> Thanks Zarni! Keg King sure do have plenty of options and pretty good prices. I thought about BIABing, but would rather not if I can avoid it.
> 
> SBCB - That is a big part of my problem! Do I go big, knowing that down the track I won't be kicking myself for buying some cheap rubbish that doesn't do the job properly, or do I start small just in case I try it and think it's all too much effort?
> 
> ...


27 litres is a bit limiting. But certainly doable. I started out with a 34 litre, and upgraded to a 44 litre, which cost me around $30 from kmart.

Don't know how your lauter tun set up is going, I just used the bathroom cistern set up, not the false bottom - I'll probably upgrade to the false bottom setup soon though. But if you do upgrade eskies, or haven't sorted your system out yet this is what I use.. and its great, water tight and fine for the purpose. I think it will fit most eskies on the market without re-drilling a hole an also fit 1/2" fittings nice and snug whether that be your ball valve tap or false bottom. Just make sure that your esky has a flat side for the outlet hole for the fitting to go on - whether that is your current esky or one you get down teh track.

Well, I, like many people on here have purchased pots and found they have an over abundance. For example, I did go large and buy a 70 litre stock pot off Ebay and 3 ring gas burner from bunnings, Cost around $300 all up - but I also purchased a couple of the 19L stock pots from Big W.. and later purchased a 30L birko urn which killed the need for the 19L sstock pots...

Thats why people say go big as usually your first AG is just working out the system and what works for you.. it is a big job, taking around 5 hours, which is why a lot of people say go big with the kettle/stock pot because its generally a bit more economical and reasonable to do double batches down the line.

Unfortunately I can almost guarantee you will be repurchasing, or upgrading some part of your system and have some gear you will not use down the track.. but thats the nature of the beast, and actually sometimes the things you don't think you will use in homebrewing come in handy for some hair-brained scheme or idea along the line also..

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions - it is a very helpful forum and people are willing to help


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## thedragon (1/7/14)

slcmorro said:


> If you're going for as you say, the minimal AG setup possible, 1V BIAB would suit you way better.


I agree. Until recently I used 40 L crown urn for BIAB. A 40 L Crown or Birko urn will cost you $300 new, but can be found for $200 second hand. I and many others have made cracking beers with the BIAB method.


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## manticle (1/7/14)

Storebought - I've used a 26 L for yonks. Broken so I've upgraded to 33. 26 is plenty to do a 20-23 L brew up to at least 9% abv.


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers (1/7/14)

manticle said:


> Storebought - I've used a 26 L for yonks. Broken so I've upgraded to 33. 26 is plenty to do a 20-23 L brew up to at least 9% abv.


Yeah true, I just punched it in brew mate, should be heaps.

I looked at BIAB at the start, but the step of insulating the mash turned me off. I can see it has its advantages though, using the 1 vessel, but I'm happy with the 3v.


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## slcmorro (1/7/14)

storeboughtcheeseburgers said:


> the step of insulating the mash turned me off.


For what it's worth, I brew 1V BIAB in Ballarat, and I don't insulate my keggle at all. It stays within 1c over a 60 min mash with a glass lid on at ambient in winter (and if you know Ballarat, that can be anything from -2c to 15c in) and even better in the warmer months.


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## Drewski (1/7/14)

slcmorro said:


> For what it's worth, I brew 1V BIAB in Ballarat, and I don't insulate my keggle at all. It stays within 1c over a 60 min mash with a glass lid on at ambient in winter (and if you know Ballarat, that can be anything from -2c to 15c in) and even better in the warmer months.



Also in Ballarat, good to know. Just got a Crown 40L Urn a week ago to get into BIAB moving away from extract.


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## slcmorro (1/7/14)

Drop me a PM if you're interested in having a gander at my setup mate, or even coming along for a brew-day. Happy to help. BAR is the group around these parts that got me going pretty well! Just had a meetup on Saturday actually.

Back on topic... my keggle is a converted CUB 50L keg. Probably thicker walled than most SS pots.


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## pedleyr (1/7/14)

Your crown urn will probably lose a bit more heat than a keggle as it's aluminium which is a better heat conductor. 

Having said that it is definitely not something I'd be at all worried about, I just mention it so you're not surprised if you lose more than 1 degree.


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## Drewski (1/7/14)

Probably looking at using a sleeping bag for insulation, as yes the urn it pretty thin walled.

Any reason you want to avoid BIAB Herman? Urn was only $279 from Grain And Grape and your set. Is a good starting point as you could later on use the Urn as a HLT if you go 3v.


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## thedragon (1/7/14)

My urn was only ever insulated by a beach towel held in place by an occy strap and another towel over the lid. On a cold day it'd loose about 2 degrees over 60 mins. 

Probably not a huge problem in qld.


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## hathro (1/7/14)

40L Buffalo Urn ~$200 new here.

Perform the mods here in 20 mins and simple insulation instructions here.

Such good value I've bought a second urn to run two batches simultaneously.


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## marksy (2/7/14)

$500 you are getting ripped a new one. I paid $150L with tap, and if you know the blokes at the pub they might be able to slip you a few kegs you can convert. I've got two donated kegs as well.


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## VP Brewing (2/7/14)

I had an old keg sitting at my place so cut the top off and put a tap in. Made a home made immersion chiller, got a ten jet Mongolian burner and a BIAB bag. The whole set up was less than $100 and makes really really good beer.


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## hermanpeckel (2/7/14)

Wow! Loads of info and loads of options. That's what I love about forums - you have a vague idea, you chuck it out there, and a whole bunch of good options come back.

I've gotta say, the more info I get, the more I'm thinking BIAB would be the best way to start. It fits my criteria of starting slowly and I can scale it up later, reusing the pot/urn for something else.

I LOVE the idea of the urn. It seems to make perfect sense. Set it at the temp you want, then you don't need to worry about it (for an HLT that is). At this stage I think I'm going to go with a pot though. Only reason being that I would need a big pot to boil up in anyhow. When I make the transition though - an urn for sure.

One thing I'm a bit confused about with all this talk of insulating, is there a reason you can't just give your mash a blast of heat every now and then (obviously not in an esky, but if it's in a pot)?

Anyhow, big thanks for your responses. I'm now a lot more clued up and pumped to get into it!


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## mje1980 (2/7/14)

I tried BIAB a few months ago after 10 years with a 3v setup. Not looking back. I mainly tried it to save room in my garage, and for me, it's very easy and I have a very basic setup that takes up much less room.

I use a gas fired keggle.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (2/7/14)

I got 2 big W pots on my house stove. I've not had to buy more than $50 worth of equipment in total. It's pretty minimal, but means that if/when I ever graduate to something else (as others have done from this method), I've not shelled out a great deal of money on equipment, and the pots can be repurposed for decoction or sparge water.


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## zarniwoop (2/7/14)

Seriously go BIAB to start with. It's cheap, easy and produces some really good beers, you can always just use the pot as a HLT down the track if you go to 3V. You also don't have to mess around with sparging and transferring wort etc.

Go minimum of 50L, preferably 60L. I use mine the stove with an over the side element, easy to clean and flexible. You can always pimp the setup down the track.


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## Spiesy (2/7/14)

slcmorro said:


> If you're going for as you say, the minimal AG setup possible, 1V BIAB would suit you way better.


For absolute minimum, either stove top BIAB or electric urn BIAB. No chill cube. Fermenter. Bottle capper and bottles.


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## hermanpeckel (3/7/14)

Yep! I've bitten the bullet and made a couple of purchases!

A 56 litre pot -
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-COMMERCIAL56L-STAINLESS-STEEL-STOCK-POT-SAUCE-SET-/171374557260?pt=AU_Business_Industrial_Restaurant_Catering_Equipment&hash=item27e6b8384c

And a 50 foot wort chiller-
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50-Immersion-3-8-Copper-Wort-Chiller-Large-Wort-Chiller-Copper-Wort-Chiller-/250981642112?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6fabef80

I had also inherited a gas burner outside to do the heating.

I figured if I am going to go all out down the track I can certainly use these parts. All good and ready to go! Thanks guys!


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## lael (4/7/14)

The outlets on that wort chiller should bend the other way so you don't get any spills into the wort. May be worth re- bending them when it arrives.


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## hermanpeckel (4/7/14)

Hi Lael,

Are you saying that I want to bend them to point down (ie So the join is outside the brewing kettle)?


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## lael (4/7/14)

Yeah, that is what I would do. Just in case of leaks - so it runs away from the pot and drips outside it.


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## mrsupraboy (4/7/14)

I'm happy to help u make one. If u can be bothered from scratch


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## hermanpeckel (4/7/14)

Yeah, that sounds like a plan Lael! 

mrsupraboy - I actually thought about going down that path, but copper pipe costs a bomb now so I bought one online.


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## mrsupraboy (4/7/14)

No copper pipe mate all stainless steel and cheap from China. (love u china) haha mate there is other ways to set up Ur system.


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