# Holgate Esb Any Idea's On A Recipe



## Rustyc30 (23/10/08)

Hi Guys 

Had this when I was in Melbourne last month and love it and want to try to brew some thing close. Had a look at the site and this is what thay has for the beer 

"Give Me More Hops! The Holgate Extra Special Bitter is steeped in tradition - a hand-pumped naturally conditioned Real Ale, follows the English brewers tradition of denoting "Extra Special" beers as having a higher alcohol than a "Mild", with rich and complex malt additions and highly bittered with English hops. The Holgate version combines a special blend of crystal and roast malts and generous additions of English Fuggles and Goldings hops to create a very "moreish" Ale rich in flavour.

Naturally carbonated through a secondary fermentation in kegs and bottles, this beer contains a light yeast sediment - which is your guarantee of a Real Ale with real flavour! Served through traditional beer engine at Holgate Brewhouse, this beer is a great accompaniment with full flavoured dishes - beef, game, duck."


My first thoughts are somthing along the lines of 

Marris Otter 
Med Crystal 
Choc malt or
Roast Barley 

EKG and Fuggles at 60min 20min and 0min

does anyone have an Idea of what the Ibu's and EBC's would be for this beer 

It's 5% abv so thinking the OG should be around 1.052 

any need to find out what yeast was thinking 1968 or 1098 or do you think that being an aussie micro it's likely to be s-04 

any help would be great 

cheers

rusty


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## Rustyc30 (24/10/08)

Come on someone must have some idea's on this beer this is what I have so fare

21l Batch 75% Eff

Grain Bill

MO 4.5kg
Med Crystal .35kg
Black Malt 0.07

Hops 

20g Fuggles
20g EKG
20g Fuggles
20g EKG
15g fuggles
15g EKG

Yeast 

1098/1968/S-04 not sure which one


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## reviled (24/10/08)

Butters??? 

I recently did an ESB, cant quite remember the recipe, but I did use Cara Aroma, which is good, id probably suggest some brown malt, and stick with the MO... Dont add any black malt or roast barley IMO...

Hops, I dry hopped 20g of Styrian Goldings in my one, and had Goldings/Fuggles combos throughout the boil...

And yeast, I would go with 1968 for more of a flavour profile than S-04

My $0.02, but Butters is more likely to give you a better response...


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## br33zy (24/10/08)

Lurking on this one sorry... Its an awesome beer and I'd love to build one too.

I noticed there is a hint on the bottle about 'specialty grains yielding a copper sheen' or something like that. I'm still a novice on grain characteristics; but do your grains lend some reddish/copper colour?

Cheers

Breezy


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## SJW (24/10/08)

Come on all you Ale men. I am a Lager lad and am yet to make a good English Special. Doc should have some good recipes as he is an Engine man.

This looks good though, but with EKG
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=457


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## BOG (24/10/08)

Here's a copy of Fullers ESB. Rates as one of the best ESB in the world. It won't be the same as the beer you want but should give you some ideas.





BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Fullers ESB
Brewer: 
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Strong Bitter/English Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 43.53 L 
Boil Size: 50.66 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 28.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 31.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.31 kg Pale Malt(2-row) (5.9 EBC) Grain 45.27 % 
2.27 kg Munich Malt (11.8 EBC) Grain 23.84 % 
0.91 kg Flaked Corn (Maize) (0.0 EBC) Grain 9.56 % 
0.45 kg Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.73 % 
0.45 kg CaraMunich Malt (147.8 EBC) Grain 4.73 % 
0.45 kg CaraVienne Malt (41.4 EBC) Grain 4.73 % 
0.45 kg Crystal 120L (234.4 EBC) Grain 4.73 % 
0.23 kg Crystal 80L (157.6 EBC) Grain 2.42 % 
28.35 gm Wye Target [8.80 %] (60 min) Hops 13.6 IBU 
28.35 gm Wye Challenger [8.20 %] (40 min) Hops 11.1 IBU 
28.35 gm Wye Northdown [8.00 %] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU 
28.35 gm Goldings - E.K. [6.40 %] (1 min) Hops 0.4 IBU 
28.35 gm Goldings - E.K. [6.40 %] (0 min) Hops - 
0.00 L Burton On Trent Water 
1 Pkgs DCL Safale S04 Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Step
Total Grain Weight: 9.52 kg
----------------------------
Single Step
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Conversion step Add 62.60 L of water at 71.9 C 68.0 C 
20 min Mash out Heat to 77.0 C over 2 min 77.0 C 


Notes:
------



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## SJW (24/10/08)

> 0.45 kg CaraVienne Malt (41.4 EBC) Grain 4.73 %


wtf is this?


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## BOG (24/10/08)

Yep, I couldn't find it either.

I used Biscuit Malt at 40 EBC.


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## brettprevans (29/6/10)

On the weekend I tasted holgates ESB. Its actually quite differant to their old ESB. I could almost put my hand on my heart and say there is a far whack of challanger hops now and a little more up front crystal malt. not overly balanced but ok. certainly very differant to the hargreaves esb


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## domix (11/4/11)

I know this is an old post, but I had a bottle of the ESB last night and it was very nice. Nice colour, bitterness and floral, fruity hoppiness.
Just checked on their website and the list the hops and a couple of malts:

"Give Me More Hops! The Holgate Extra Special Bitter is steeped in tradition - a hand-pumped naturally conditioned Real Ale, follows the English brewers tradition of denoting "Extra Special" beers as having a higher alcohol than a "Mild", with rich and complex malt additions and highly bittered with English hops. The Holgate version combines a special blend of crystal and roast malts and generous additions of English Fuggles and Goldings hops to create a very "moreish" Ale rich in flavour.

Naturally carbonated through a secondary fermentation in kegs and bottles, this beer contains a light yeast sediment - which is your guarantee of a Real Ale with real flavour! Served through traditional beer engine at Holgate Brewhouse, this beer is a great accompaniment with full flavoured dishes - beef, game, duck."

http://www.holgatebrewhouse.com/esb.html


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## Acasta (30/6/11)

Has anyone got any developments on this? Had it last night, and the malt was amazing. Really rich toffee and caramel taste.
Would love to even get something close to the malt profile.


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## [email protected] (30/6/11)

Acasta said:


> Has anyone got any developments on this? Had it last night, and the malt was amazing. Really rich toffee and caramel taste.
> Would love to even get something close to the malt profile.



I agree, i really enjoy the malt in this one as well.


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## the_dalai_lager (14/6/15)

I revisited this beer again just the other day & was completely inspired to brew something as similar as possible.
Have you lads had any luck with a grain bill that brought you close?


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## Pagey (3/12/15)

Guess no one is keen to clone this one ay? Would make a RIPPER christmas beer...


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## timmi9191 (3/12/15)

Current website states:

Paul Holgate's northern English heritage finds a spirited expression in this deep amber bitter. Served on a traditional beer engine at the Hotel and tap room in Woodend, the ESB offers depth and complexity that makes it at once challenging and eminently drinkable. One of the two recipes that launched the Brewhouse in 1999, it includes English crystal and roast malts, an abundance of East Kent Goldings hops and is enhanced through dry hopping with a touch of Aussie Galaxy. Oh so moreish.

Softly carbonated and served through traditional Beer Engine at 8-10 Deg C at Holgate Brewhouse, this beer is a great accompaniment with full flavoured dishes – beef, game, duck.

ABV5.0% OG1.046 IBU40 EBC20

Ill take a stab at something like this:
Mash at 63C for 90 min, mash out 78C. 60 min boil.


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## antiphile (3/12/15)

I do a lot of ESBs, some being more obviously malt forward than others, but they are all more "earthy" than "fruity" with the fuggles and EKG etc. Certainly never tried one using galaxy. I'll track down one of my faves and see if it's any use as a starting point for you to tart up a bit.

Perhaps you could sub EKG for the Bramling Cross (to give it a fruity lift), but I've no idea how galaxy might go as a dry hop. And I've also done very similar ones with various combinations of MO, Golden Promise and Pearl and they all turn out very nicely (IMHO).

Anyway, it might be of some use. Cheers

Recipe: Extra Pale ESB
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: Rather typical ESB. Characteristic medium body but grain bill provides for a colour in the low end of the style range. Aroma and "earthy" flavour are typical of the Bramling Cross and Fuggles hops, though the bitterness seems a little higher than the predicted 35 IBU.

It is expected this will drink well from mid to late December '15 to at least Mar-Apr '16.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 58.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 52.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 50.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 48.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 12.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 35.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.4 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
7.00 kg Pale Ale Malt (Muntons) (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 64.2 % 
2.50 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 2 22.9 % 
0.50 kg Carahell (25.0 EBC) Grain 3 4.6 % 
0.50 kg Carared (50.0 EBC) Grain 4 4.6 % 
0.20 kg Acidulated (Weyermann) (3.5 EBC) Grain 5 1.8 % 
0.20 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 6 1.8 % 
35.00 g Ella (aka Stella) [14.30 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 7 23.7 IBUs 
35.00 g Fuggles [5.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 6.5 IBUs 
9.00 g Brewbrite (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 - 
40.00 g Bramling Cross [5.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.4 IBUs 
1.00 Items Copper Chiller Coil (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 11 - 
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 12 - 
30.00 g Fuggles [5.10 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 Hop 13 1.8 IBUs 
1.0 pkg British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) [35.49 Yeast 14 - 


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 10.90 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Protein Rest Add 17.96 l of water at 62.6 C 55.0 C 15 min 
Saccharification Add 8.48 l of water at 97.1 C 66.7 C 45 min 
Mash Out Add 11.97 l of water at 98.3 C 75.6 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 32.01 l water at 75.6 C

Notes:
------
It was hoped that a 60 min boil of Ella (aka Stella) would still leave a trace of fruitiness to match the English earthiness of Fuggles and Bramling Cross. Unfortunately, no remaining flavours are noticeable with it leaving just a clean bitterness.

Perhaps replacing the 60 min addition with Target and a small 20-30 min addition of Ella (around 15 grams) should be considered.


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## timmi9191 (3/12/15)

I just had a holgate ESB and despite the tasting notes of it being dry hopped with galaxy, id say the closest galaxy got to the brewing process was on a truck that went past holgate on its way to brewery that actually used it.


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## Fylp (3/12/15)

I spent a day at holgate and loved the ESB. I get a bit over the beer engine pour, but loved my takeaways. I thought it had a dose of challenger in it.


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## wide eyed and legless (22/2/20)

I get up to Holgates quite regularly and the ESB is probably one of the best beers you can get in Victoria if not Australia. Did a mild today but I am wanting to try to make something like this, it does state dry hopping with Galaxy but agree with an earlier comment that there is no Galaxy in the dry hopping.It has quite a lingering bitterness to it so I think the IBU's may be quite high I am going with Pilgrim, Challenger and Target hops. If that doesn't work I will ask next time I am there.


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## goatchop41 (22/2/20)

Their website states that it is made with EKGs


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## wide eyed and legless (23/2/20)

goatchop41 said:


> Their website states that it is made with EKGs


On the tasting notes which they hand out from behind the bar, 'an abundance of EKG and is enhanced with a touch of Aussie Galaxy' I cant taste them, but I do like the bitter finish. Anyway inspired to try something, if I can get it similar to this I would be happy, I have got some EKG and Williamette, maybe go down that path.


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## Belgrave Brewer (23/2/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> On the tasting notes which they hand out from behind the bar, 'an abundance of EKG and is enhanced with a touch of Aussie Galaxy' I cant taste them, but I do like the bitter finish. Anyway inspired to try something, if I can get it similar to this I would be happy, I have got some EKG and Williamette, maybe go down that path.



I doubt the original recipe had Galaxy in it. The Holgate ESB was a favourite of mine and I proudly served it at my pub for years before they decided to only sell it uncarbonated for hand pumps and it dropped off my tap list. I switched to Hargreaves ESB after trialing a few others, which was amazing fresh and had a lovely hop forward note to it. Still, Holgates ESB reminded me of being in England...they nailed the malt bill in the original recipe, I'm not sure what it is like these days.

Let us know how you go WEAL!


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## wide eyed and legless (24/2/20)

Belgrave Brewer said:


> I doubt the original recipe had Galaxy in it. The Holgate ESB was a favourite of mine and I proudly served it at my pub for years before they decided to only sell it uncarbonated for hand pumps and it dropped off my tap list. I switched to Hargreaves ESB after trialing a few others, which was amazing fresh and had a lovely hop forward note to it. Still, Holgates ESB reminded me of being in England...they nailed the malt bill in the original recipe, I'm not sure what it is like these days.
> 
> Let us know how you go WEAL!


I have been up there 3 times in the last week (to Trentham) going up again probably Wednesday will see if I can find out more. I am sure that Paul Holgate used to post on here some years ago, probably got better things to do now they have grown so big. Seems like the ESB has evolved over the years, I will definitely take more notice of the colour as well.


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## goatchop41 (24/2/20)

I find it quite amusing that despite the brewery themselves saying in multiple places that it is dry hopped with galaxy, there are so many in this thread who seem to think that they know better...
Just because you cannot pick it specifically, that does mean that it isn't there. Perhaps a restrained addition of galaxy may blend well with an expressive English yeast throwing fruity esters, and the strong malt character that it has.
It's really a good laugh that you all think that you know more about the recipe of the beer than the actual brewery themselves.


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## malt and barley blues (25/2/20)

Go up and do the brewery tour on a Saturday WEAL, I did it and asked them questions about their Temptress Chocloate Porter, I got nothing I didn't already know, a vague grain bill and no hops.


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## Reg Holt (25/2/20)

Getting information from a brewery about a beer, especially a popular one is like pulling teeth. Take no notice of the tasting notes, beers are almost continually tweaked and if they are truthful the info could be out of date. When I worked at Rubicon Brewery they were constantly getting emails about what was going into certain beers. The boss would give them something which was not even close, his favourite saying was, If you want to keep a secret pretend you havent got one.


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## Nullnvoid (25/2/20)

goatchop41 said:


> I find it quite amusing that despite the brewery themselves saying in multiple places that it is dry hopped with galaxy, there are so many in this thread who seem to think that they know better...
> Just because you cannot pick it specifically, that does mean that it isn't there. Perhaps a restrained addition of galaxy may blend well with an expressive English yeast throwing fruity esters, and the strong malt character that it has.
> It's really a good laugh that you all think that you know more about the recipe of the beer than the actual brewery themselves.



I don't think you know how the internet works. That's exactly the truth. These people know far more than the brewers


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## wide eyed and legless (25/2/20)

Thats my thoughts too Reg, I read a post on another forum where one of the members had emailed the brewer asking what went into Doom Bar, the brewer replied he would get back to him when he wasn't so busy and give him the ingredients. The poster went back on the forum tellimg them he was going to get the recipe for Doom Bar.
A couple of weeks later he got a reply from the brewer, malt, water, hops and yeast. I think you would have to be a Collingwood supporter if you thought you would get a truthful answer from a brewer making a popular beer.

Will be spending a lot of time at Trentham MBB so will go on the brewery tour, is it free?


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## peterlonz (27/2/20)

My experience: I contacted a north Auckland craft brewer after tasting their lovely chocolate stout. I explained I was seeking guidance only & any info supplied would be on a confidential basis.
Reply: "the head brewer will respond shortly "........................ and yes he did, suggesting a grain bill & wishing me good luck.
I may have fluked it, but I kept my word, unfortunately I am not set up for all grain brewing so I could not test the "recipe".


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## wide eyed and legless (27/2/20)

Called into Holgates yesterday, all I was told was they used EKG, I can understand they don't want to disclose the recipe. So after having a couple more decided I will brew an ESB using Target for bittering and EKG for aroma.
The brewery is pretty impressive, quite large now with the canning and bottling lines.



peterlonz said:


> My experience: I contacted a north Auckland craft brewer after tasting their lovely chocolate stout. I explained I was seeking guidance only & any info supplied would be on a confidential basis.
> Reply: "the head brewer will respond shortly "........................ and yes he did, suggesting a grain bill & wishing me good luck.
> I may have fluked it, but I kept my word, unfortunately I am not set up for all grain brewing so I could not test the "recipe".


I tried that with McCashins Brewery never got a reply.


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## wide eyed and legless (6/3/20)

Was up at Holgates again last week, going up again Monday, started cold crashing the ESB I made using Target for bittering, two charges of EKG, 20 mins and flame out, EKG dry hop.
Bought a couple of takeaways the Double ESB AT 7.5% no where near as bitter as the ESB from the pump. If I get somewhere close to the bitterness I will be happy.


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## razz (6/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Was up at Holgates again last week, going up again Monday, started cold crashing the ESB I made using Target for bittering, two charges of EKG, 20 mins and flame out, EKG dry hop.
> Bought a couple of takeaways the Double ESB AT 7.5% no where near as bitter as the ESB from the pump. If I get somewhere close to the bitterness I will be happy.
> View attachment 117701



Thanks for taking one for the team WEAL.


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## malt and barley blues (7/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Thats my thoughts too Reg, I read a post on another forum where one of the members had emailed the brewer asking what went into Doom Bar, the brewer replied he would get back to him when he wasn't so busy and give him the ingredients. The poster went back on the forum tellimg them he was going to get the recipe for Doom Bar.
> A couple of weeks later he got a reply from the brewer, malt, water, hops and yeast. I think you would have to be a Collingwood supporter if you thought you would get a truthful answer from a brewer making a popular beer.
> 
> Will be spending a lot of time at Trentham MBB so will go on the brewery tour, is it free?


No not free, but it's worth paying for, a brilliant set up.
I hope you keep a few bottles aside for interested parties to taste.


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## wide eyed and legless (9/3/20)

malt and barley blues said:


> No not free, but it's worth paying for, a brilliant set up.
> I hope you keep a few bottles aside for interested parties to taste.


I have 9 stubby's put aside for anyone who wants a taste, has the intense hop bitterness, though it's early days yet. Colour looks good I will repeat the same recipe and use Challenger as the bittering hop but the same IBU. 
As most of the interested parties are local I will drop the tasters at KK.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/3/20)

Mirrored the last ESB using Challenger in place of the Target but I suppose it comes down to individual tastes, I have always preferred Target for my bittering.
But turns out it is neither in the Holgate ESB, and no, there is no Galaxy in there. Met the head brewer today, take everything back about brewers being secretive, the brewer at Holgate couldn't be more helpful. Not only did he tell me that the bittering hops are either Super Pride or Ella, whichever is available at the time, preference in that order, and the remaining additions EKG he gave me 600 gram of each!


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## Malted Mick (19/3/20)

Ok WEAL I think we will call you the brewer whisperer!


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## bird (19/3/20)

Any chance of sharing your recipe for this ESB weal? Have been wanting to brew an esb and its sounding pretty good.


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## wide eyed and legless (19/3/20)

bird said:


> Any chance of sharing your recipe for this ESB weal? Have been wanting to brew an esb and its sounding pretty good.


Adjust to whatever bittering hops you want. If you have trouble getting Target, Brewman has them.
21 litres Fermenter volume. Full volume mash.

4.3 kg Compass Mash
0.5 kg Flaked Corn Mash
0.250 Gladiator Malt Mash
0.565 Crystal 60 Mash out
0.030 Chocolate Mash out

27 g Target 60 mins
25 g EKG 15 mins
15 g EKG 0 mins
15 g EKG Dry hop


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## bird (19/3/20)

Awesome. Thank weal. Novice question though. Crystal and choc you throw in at mash out? Does that mean I mix them in with the rest of the grain after the 60min mash whilst raising temp to 75c then sparge as per usual?


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## wide eyed and legless (19/3/20)

bird said:


> Awesome. Thank weal. Novice question though. Crystal and choc you throw in at mash out? Does that mean I mix them in with the rest of the grain after the 60min mash whilst raising temp to 75c then sparge as per usual?


Yes you can put them in after the 60 minutes is up and carry on as normal, or you can put them in for the full mash, I prefer not to.
As I do a full volume mash and no other water, my efficiency is lower than yours , you are looking for a 1,050 OG 1,012 FG IBU between 45 and 50 so adjust the recipe to suit you.
Forgot to mention mash temp 67 C


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## malt and barley blues (19/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Mirrored the last ESB using Challenger in place of the Target but I suppose it comes down to individual tastes, I have always preferred Target for my bittering.
> But turns out it is neither in the Holgate ESB, and no, there is no Galaxy in there. Met the head brewer today, take everything back about brewers being secretive, the brewer at Holgate couldn't be more helpful. Not only did he tell me that the bittering hops are either Super Pride or Ella, whichever is available at the time, preference in that order, and the remaining additions EKG he gave me 600 gram of each!


Any reference to percentages?


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## bird (7/4/20)

Got to brew an esb Two weeks ago. Ended up running a grain bill 90% MO and 10% heritage crystal. used your hop schedule weal with Ella for bittering and ekg for the rest at about 35ibu. tastes beautiful. Used Nottingham for the first time and was amazed at how quickly it fermented. Thanks weal will definitely be brewing an esb again.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/4/20)

malt and barley blues said:


> Any reference to percentages?


Approximately 2 to 1, 1 being the bittering.


bird said:


> View attachment 117851
> 
> Got to brew an esb Two weeks ago. Ended up running a grain bill 90% MO and 10% heritage crystal. used your hop schedule weal with Ella for bittering and ekg for the rest at about 35ibu. tastes beautiful. Used Nottingham for the first time and was amazed at how quickly it fermented. Thanks weal will definitely be brewing an esb again.


Glad you liked it, what makes Holgate ESB stand out is definitely the bitterness, try upping the IBU a bit the next time you brew, but if you don't like to much bitterness then, 'as you were'.


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## bird (8/4/20)

Was thinking about upping the ibu next time. Looked up holgate esb and it reckons its only 35ibu so went with that on this one. Everyone is enjoying it though so it probably won't last to long. Will let you know how the next one goes.


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## wide eyed and legless (9/4/20)

My wife has finally almost ran out of things for me to do, milled the grain adjusted the hops and will be brewing tomorrow using the Ella for bittering. Currently drinking the ESB with the Challenger additions while it is a nice drop preferred the Target additions to the Challenger.


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## Malted Mick (9/4/20)

Ok This thread has got me interested. I love English beer, TT Landlord, Fullers ESB & Speckled Hen. To be honest I like most beers but not the commercial mainstream lagers. Never tried Holgates but going by the reputation I am sure it is a good drop. Following your recipe WEAL and trying Brewsmith for the first time I have come up with the following. It is of course limited to what I have in hand at the moment. 
23Lt BIAB
4.3 Kg Gladfield Pale Ale
.56 Kg Gladfield Med Crystal Ale
.03 Kg Gladfield Dark Chocolate
.25 Kg Gladfield Gladiator
.5 Kg Flaked Maize

20gms Vic Secret Boil 60 mins
25gms EKG Boil 15 mins
15gms EKG Steep/Whirlpool 
15gms EKG Dry Hop 4 Days

SafAle 04 1.2 Pkts

Mash 67C

I am a newby! So advice, comments, critical or otherwise are appreciated.


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## Vic (10/4/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Adjust to whatever bittering hops you want. If you have trouble getting Target, Brewman has them.
> 21 litres Fermenter volume. Full volume mash.
> 
> 4.3 kg Compass Mash
> ...


What yeast did you use weal?


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## wide eyed and legless (10/4/20)

Vic said:


> What yeast did you use weal?



I used Fermentis SO- 4, I will replicate the first recipe I brewed and try the CN-36 I have had good results with that.



Malted Mick said:


> Ok This thread has got me interested. I love English beer, TT Landlord, Fullers ESB & Speckled Hen. To be honest I like most beers but not the commercial mainstream lagers. Never tried Holgates but going by the reputation I am sure it is a good drop. Following your recipe WEAL and trying Brewsmith for the first time I have come up with the following. It is of course limited to what I have in hand at the moment.
> 23Lt BIAB
> 4.3 Kg Gladfield Pale Ale
> .56 Kg Gladfield Med Crystal Ale
> ...


Can't comment on the hops as I haven't used them, give it a go it's hard to make a bad beer.


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## Grmblz (11/4/20)

Malted Mick said:


> Ok This thread has got me interested. I love English beer, TT Landlord, Fullers ESB & Speckled Hen. To be honest I like most beers but not the commercial mainstream lagers. Never tried Holgates but going by the reputation I am sure it is a good drop. Following your recipe WEAL and trying Brewsmith for the first time I have come up with the following. It is of course limited to what I have in hand at the moment.
> 23Lt BIAB
> 4.3 Kg Gladfield Pale Ale
> .56 Kg Gladfield Med Crystal Ale
> ...


1.2 Pkts? Chuck the 0.2, it's obviously been opened (how long for doesn't really matter) Do a starter if you think you need more but at this OG a fresh pack should be plenty.


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## Malted Mick (12/4/20)

Grmblz said:


> 1.2 Pkts? Chuck the 0.2, it's obviously been opened (how long for doesn't really matter) Do a starter if you think you need more but at this OG a fresh pack should be plenty.


Hope I am not going off topic. Interesting as I said I am a newbie and looking for advice. I do not converse with any home brewers at the moment for first hand knowledge and all my information comes from Goggles head brewer. Fermentis recommend 50-80gms a H/Lt, you are correct 1 pkt (11.5g) should be enough for 23lts. The requirement for 1.2 pkts is from the Beersmith yeast starter tab. Previous to using Beersmith I came up with a similar amount using the Lallemand pitching calculator. I vacumn seal the opened packet and store at 4 C for less than 2 weeks. The logic of using slightly more yeast came from my first brew using Saf-05. Fermentation stuck at day two for some reason when I just sprinkled a pkt on top as recommended. On subsequent brews I have been using more Fermentis yeast (1.2 - 1.5 pkts), rehydrated. I am also slightly oxygenating my wort and pressure fermenting at 5 psi/18 C. I know that fermentis say oxygenation is not required, but interestingly in another technical note they have conflicting advice in that oxygenation can be carried out in the first 18 hours of fermentaion. My new process has resulted in very spectacular active fermentation, lots of swirling of particles and bubbling. I can try going to a single pack as its a pain handling the opened packets.


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## wide eyed and legless (12/4/20)

To be honest Malted Mick I too used 1.5 sachets the first ESB I did I haven't since, the one sachet is enough. As for the 18 hour time lapse, that is because the yeast has by that time gone into the anaerobic stage, that is for all yeasts in general.


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## Grmblz (12/4/20)

If it's working for you and you're getting good results then stick with it, I doubt the stuck fermentation was a result of 1 pack as opposed to 1.2 packs though, something else was going on there.
I like things simple so use a rule of thumb, up to 1045/1050 a single pack, over 1045/1050 two packs, at 1090 and above a small beer and use yeast cake. I can hear the howls of derision from the cell counting process focused guys lol but it works for me.
Thanks to MHB I've now become more than a little obsessed with yeasts in general and infections in particular hence my comment about chucking the 0.2.
Cheers


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