# Show Us Your Wine



## fraser_john

Well, figured there had to be another in the "Show Us Your" series! Show us your wine seemed better than show us your plumbers crack! (Apologies to any plumbers out there!)

The picture below is this years harvest of Shiraz, being turned into a Rose. We had such a terrible harvest and only got 20 odd litres of juice from 80 vines!!! Heat, powdery mildew and rain meant we had a very low yield and too many stems to make a decent dry red out of. Have chatted with Kirem and HoppinMad and think I might have a track on improving yield. Better luck next year with a lot more work.

27 brix and ph of 3.7 at harvest. Added 1gm/10 litres of tartaric acid and some red wine yeast. Smells good so far!

Not sure this thread will attract much attention, but its worth a try!


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## bradsbrew

Ohh wine......thought it was show us ya wife.

Edit. Pics  :lol:


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## hoppinmad

fraser_john said:


> Well, figured there had to be another in the "Show Us Your" series! Show us your wine seemed better than show us your plumbers crack! (Apologies to any plumbers out there!)
> 
> The picture below is this years harvest of Shiraz, being turned into a Rose. We had such a terrible harvest and only got 20 odd litres of juice from 80 vines!!! Heat, powdery mildew and rain meant we had a very low yield and too many stems to make a decent dry red out of. Have chatted with Kirem and HoppinMad and think I might have a track on improving yield. Better luck next year with a lot more work.
> 
> 27 brix and ph of 3.7 at harvest. Added 1gm/10 litres of tartaric acid and some red wine yeast. Smells good so far!
> 
> Not sure this thread will attract much attention, but its worth a try!




Looks great John! Gonna be a lovely ros! Good to see you ended up getting a bit more volume yesterday.


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## 3G

kirem said:


> sangiovese....
> View attachment 26255
> 
> View attachment 26256




mmm, sangiovese a favourite as well as Nebb and Pinot


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## hoppinmad

3G said:


> mmm, sangiovese a favourite as well as Nebb and Pinot




Pinot Noir definitely #1 in my book!

As actor Sam Neill once said I think Pinot is one of the most useful wines. Its good with fish or meat, or even sitting around getting pissed with"


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## Jase71

bradsbrew said:


> Ohh wine......thought it was show us ya wife.



Wine / Whine / Wife... I can see how you misread <_< 

Guys, it's crossed my mind to get some wine going myself - I've got my eye on the spring-water carboy in my spare room as a fermenter. However I don't know if I can use common red grapes from the fruit shop, and whether I have to kill the wild yeasts (Campden tablets??). I imagine the yeast can be obtained from my HBS. Any other considerations ?


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## hoppinmad

Jase71 said:


> Wine / Whine / Wife... I can see how you misread <_<
> 
> Guys, it's crossed my mind to get some wine going myself - I've got my eye on the spring-water carboy in my spare room as a fermenter. However I don't know if I can use common red grapes from the fruit shop, and whether I have to kill the wild yeasts (Campden tablets??). I imagine the yeast can be obtained from my HBS. Any other considerations ?




A month ago I would have suggested you go to a market that sells wine grapes, but you've pretty much missed the boat now. They'll be selling over-ripe leftovers that will make seriously strong and awful wine.

I don't see why you couldn't use the fruit shop grapes though. It's not going to have a great deal of flavour or colour, but it will still be good to wet your toes. The first wine I ever made was sultana wine when I was 15... made from sultana grapes I got at the local fruit and vege shop. Turned out pretty average, but it got me started and taught me a few things. 

Use potassium metabisulfite (about 70mg/kg of grapes) when you crush the grapes and leave it over night for some skin contact before draining into the fermenter. You should get a little bit of colour and flavour from the skin. Ask your LHBS for some EC1118 yeast. You can't go wrong with that.


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## Jase71

Kirem, thank you. I'm actually keen to start now (that is, in a couple of weeks after Ive looked into it, and listened to my AHB brothers' comments). Good point about the 'fruit wines'. I'm just as keen to try unique fruit wine variations outside of the grapes (although mango's arent that great around my parts ATM). Should I start a new thread to discuss, or shall we roll on within this one ? Now that we have a new sub-forum, it woould be good to get a public 'how-to' stared. 

As long as I dont have to spend much money on setup LOL.


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## WilBier

fraser_john said:


> show us your plumbers crack! (Apologies to any plumbers out there!)


See I don't think us plumbers can even see our plumbers cracks :blink:


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## Jase71

Um. Did a post by Kirem just vanish, or am I having an acid flashback ?


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## WilBier

Jase71 said:


> Um. Did a post by Kirem just vanish, or am I having an acid flashback ?


Kire' - err, who? hehehe - you might me onto something


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## wakkatoo

On good friday I tagged along with the old man to watch him put down 400kgs of Pinot grapes (i think). Mixed in is about 5% white grapes (can't remember variety) which is apparently the fashionable thing to do atm.

Should get close to 200l after the crush in about a month.

Bucketing the grapes into the de-stemmer. Me watching the old man and his mate do all the work :lol: 




Grapes in the de-stemmer hopper. 




De-stemmed grapes and juice in fermenter. Yeast was added 2 days later


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## pdilley

Jase71 said:


> I'm just as keen to try unique fruit wine variations outside of the grapes (although mango's arent that great around my parts ATM). Should I start a new thread to discuss, or shall we roll on within this one ? Now that we have a new sub-forum, it woould be good to get a public 'how-to' stared.
> 
> As long as I dont have to spend much money on setup LOL



Man after my own heart but switch to small batch brewing as you want to spend on very high quality fruit to do amazing fruit wines. 

Rhubarb wine is good.
How about Mandarin orange-chocolate infused wine
Golde Chanterelle Mushroom wine
Bay Leaf wine 
or could stick with less exotic fruit wines like elderberry, blackberry, raspberry, and the ever popular plum

I better stop or I'll end up in the kitchn setting up a plate of cheese and crackers


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## Jase71

Brewer Pete said:


> I better stop or I'll end up in the kitchn setting up a plate of cheese and crackers



Oh Pete, you ol' romantic :lol:


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## jonocarroll

Looks great guys! I'm yet to be taken up on my offer to the Adelaide club to buy 20L of ready-to-ferment must and ferment at home with a warm-temperature yeast rather than something neutral. I wouldn't mind giving it a go sometime.



fraser_john said:


> Added 1gm/10 litres of tartaric acid and some red wine yeast.


Out of curiosity, where do you get your tartaric acid from? The advice I have been given is 



> "Industry has experienced bad problems using Chinese Tartaric Acid. Use only French or Australian product for safe results."


YMMV.


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## hoppinmad

QuantumBrewer said:


> Looks great guys! I'm yet to be taken up on my offer to the Adelaide club to buy 20L of ready-to-ferment must and ferment at home with a warm-temperature yeast rather than something neutral. I wouldn't mind giving it a go sometime.
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, where do you get your tartaric acid from? The advice I have been given is
> 
> 
> YMMV.




You can get tartaric acid from any HBS. You'll find it is mainly Italian in those small quantities so no problems


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## jonocarroll

HoppinMad said:


> You can get tartaric acid from any HBS. You'll find it is mainly Italian in those small quantities so no problems


Yeah, my question was really "where does your HBS get theirs?". I've not heard either way about Italian supplies, but I hope all is well.

While I'm here - anyone had any issues with doing a wine in their plastic fermenter? Any issues with putting wort back in there afterwards? Don't want to ruin my favourite fermenter on an experiment.

Cheers.


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## drsmurto

The Adventures of a Fermentation Chemist continue.....

140L of sangiovese.


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## hoppinmad

QuantumBrewer said:


> Yeah, my question was really "where does your HBS get theirs?". I've not heard either way about Italian supplies, but I hope all is well.
> 
> While I'm here - anyone had any issues with doing a wine in their plastic fermenter? Any issues with putting wort back in there afterwards? Don't want to ruin my favourite fermenter on an experiment.
> 
> Cheers.



My LHBS is supplied by Australian Winemakers... who buy their acid from the Esseco Group in Italy. There's another small winemaking supply shop here which sources all their stuff from WMSS... which gets it acid from the Italian company Tartarica Treviso. The packet will normally say where it is from in case you want to check.

Regarding the plastic fermenter, I don't see that you would have a problem if it's food grade plastic


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## hoppinmad

DrSmurto said:


> The Adventures of a Fermentation Chemist continue.....
> 
> 140L of sangiovese.



Wow that's a lot of wine! You'd almost have enough for a barrique there...

Love the basket press. Looks like it has seen a few vintages.


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## drsmurto

HoppinMad said:


> Wow that's a lot of wine! You'd almost have enough for a barrique there...
> 
> Love the basket press. Looks like it has seen a few vintages.



First batch so keeping it small...

If it turns out good (and tastes to date have been very promising) then may go larger.

Planning on filling a keg, carbing and bottling in champers bottle via a CPBF for some sparkling - will keep this to only 10L or so i reckon.


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## reVoxAHB

From two weekends ago, my first effort:

25 boxes of shiraz, 5 boxes of cab




Messier than I thought! Good thing I wore my gummies that day. 



Max, the helper:



Bottom Shiraz/Cab w/red wine yeast. Top left Shiraz /Cab but going for Rose w/all rounder EC1118 yeast. Back right, APA ready for kegging (or secondary).



Potassium Metabisulphite used in both to recommended amount. 
Wyeast yeast nutrient in both. 
Tartic acid adjusted as per G&G's recommendation after grapes examined in lab.
Will age the Shiraz/Cab on french oak in secondary. 

Fun day, all around. Great experience... and I believe I can now use the term, "I've gone to the darkside" eg wine over beer (even tho it's typically used here in reference to going AG). Wine is the real-darkside to any self-respecting brewer  .

Cheers, 
reVox


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## reVoxAHB

fraser_john said:


> Well, figured there had to be another in the "Show Us Your" series! Show us your wine seemed better than show us your plumbers crack! (Apologies to any plumbers out there!)
> 
> The picture below is this years harvest of Shiraz, being turned into a Rose. We had such a terrible harvest and only got 20 odd litres of juice from 80 vines!!! Heat, powdery mildew and rain meant we had a very low yield and too many stems to make a decent dry red out of. Have chatted with Kirem and HoppinMad and think I might have a track on improving yield. Better luck next year with a lot more work.
> 
> 27 brix and ph of 3.7 at harvest. Added 1gm/10 litres of tartaric acid and some red wine yeast. Smells good so far!
> 
> Not sure this thread will attract much attention, but its worth a try!



I was told it's imperitive to have your ferm vessel topped as high as it will go to prevent oxidation of the wine. I realise you were only able to get 20 odd litres, but are you not supposed to top up with spring water (dropping % of alcohol) or finished wine in the style you are going for? Or is it only essential to top up after primary fermentation (eg in conditioning/secondary 6mo. vessel)? 

Great thread, btw. I can see myself taking a crack at this next year. After all, wine season is only once a year.. won't set back my production of beer too much and it's great having most of the gear required from brewing.

Cheers, 
reVox


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## warrenlw63

reVox said:


> Messier than I thought! Good thing I wore my gummies that day.



Some pants would have helped too.  

Looks good reVox unlike yer legs. :lol: 

Warren -


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## white.grant

Great pictures guys. I'm wine making curious and this a fascinating thread.

cheers

grant


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## fraser_john

reVox said:


> I was told it's imperitive to have your ferm vessel topped as high as it will go to prevent oxidation of the wine. I realise you were only able to get 20 odd litres, but are you not supposed to top up with spring water (dropping % of alcohol) or finished wine in the style you are going for? Or is it only essential to top up after primary fermentation (eg in conditioning/secondary 6mo. vessel)?
> 
> Great thread, btw. I can see myself taking a crack at this next year. After all, wine season is only once a year.. won't set back my production of beer too much and it's great having most of the gear required from brewing.
> 
> Cheers,
> reVox



Good question, and I don't know the answer! I suspect that during fermentation, its probably OK with the CO2 pushing out any oxygen, subsequent rackings may cause issues and I will probably go buy several 5 litre glass jars to store it in longer term. Course, I could always purge a 20 litre carboy with CO2 before racking!

John


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## reVoxAHB

warrenlw63 said:


> Some pants would have helped too.
> 
> Looks good reVox unlike yer legs. :lol:
> 
> Warren -



Hehe. That second shot does look like a leg and foot! Actually its the back of my arm.. half the fun was digging out the crushed grapes from 300L bins. Practically had to crawl into them and dig the bottom bits out.

All in a days fun.

reVox


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## warrenlw63

reVox said:


> Hehe. That second shot does look like a leg and foot! Actually its the back of my arm.. half the fun was digging out the crushed grapes from 300L bins. Practically had to crawl into them and dig the bottom bits out.
> 
> All in a days fun.
> 
> reVox



And here was me thinking you were squashing them the good old Italian way with yer feet.  

Warren -


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## hoppinmad

fraser_john said:


> Good question, and I don't know the answer! I suspect that during fermentation, its probably OK with the CO2 pushing out any oxygen, subsequent rackings may cause issues and I will probably go buy several 5 litre glass jars to store it in longer term. Course, I could always purge a 20 litre carboy with CO2 before racking!
> 
> John




Hey John, I've got three 5 litre demijons and a 3 litre coming your way. I won't need them for a while so don't mind you using them til bottling... which given it's a rose should only be about 6 months. I have lost the bungs for them though... but Kevin from the Geelong HBS has plenty. 

As far as the rackings go, you should really only need to do two. The sulfites are oxygen scavengers so with a good addition after fermentation you should be right.

How's the wine looking?


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## fraser_john

HoppinMad said:


> Hey John, I've got three 5 litre demijons and a 3 litre coming your way. I won't need them for a while so don't mind you using them til bottling... which given it's a rose should only be about 6 months. I have lost the bungs for them though... but Kevin from the Geelong HBS has plenty.
> 
> As far as the rackings go, you should really only need to do two. The sulfites are oxygen scavengers so with a good addition after fermentation you should be right.
> 
> How's the wine looking?



Wine is looking great, when I went in the brewery today I thought I could smell a little sulphur. I smelled the air lock and could not perceive anything bad, regardless, I added an extra gram of DAP to be sure. Took a sample and its still quite sweet but has a real raspberry flavor! Could turn out a real nice wine at this rate.

Cool, I guess I'll rack into another large carboy when fermentation is done and into your smaller ones on a second/final racking. I have CO2 can purge the larger carboy no drama. 

How much milligrams/litre of pot-sulphite should I add at racking? another 100mg/litre or back to 50mg/litre?

John


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## hoppinmad

fraser_john said:


> Cool, I guess I'll rack into another large carboy when fermentation is done and into your smaller ones on a second/final racking. I have CO2 can purge the larger carboy no drama.
> 
> How much milligrams/litre of pot-sulphite should I add at racking? another 100mg/litre or back to 50mg/litre?



My recommendation would be to rack into the small carboys a couple of days after fermentation is complete. This will allow yeast and other crud to settle whilst still under a blanket of CO2 from the ferment. I don't really recommend that you use a large carboy after fermentation. It's too risky even with the CO2 purging.

I'd add another 100mg/L PMS at the first racking and in a couple of months give me a small sample and I'll test it to see if you need more. Probably another racking in 4 months time will be fine.

Also, another thing, I would check your pH after ferment. I think you'll find you may need to add some more acid


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## pdilley

In primary fermentation O2 is actually a yeast nutrient. Its when after primary fermentation and you are doing your rackings and bulk aging that you want to make sure you rack to smaller vessels you can top up and put the overflow into bottles or other smaller vessels for use of topping up subsequent rackings. Thats if you want to preserve the fermented ABV in the final wine. If you are not worried about the final ABV or you want to lower the ABV of the final wine then you can top up with water after racking to a new vessel.


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## hoppinmad

Brewer Pete said:


> Its when after primary fermentation and you are doing your rackings and bulk aging that you want to make sure you rack to smaller vessels you can top up and put the overflow into bottles or other smaller vessels for use of topping up subsequent rackings.



That's right. Hence John needs to wait til fermentation is complete in the large carboy before racking into the smaller carboys. After that, in the case of a ros wine, O2 is his enemy.


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## reVoxAHB

Grantw said:


> Great pictures guys. I'm wine making curious and this a fascinating thread.
> 
> cheers
> 
> grant



Hi Grant, 

I did a quick cram a few days before pressing my grapes as I wanted to understand the process and get an idea of what to expect in terms of additives, fermentation and so on. I pressed with an old Greek winemaker, who has been making wine for 20+ years, so I knew I was in good hands. 

The wikipedia entry for winemaking really got me up to speed, in a no-nonsense sort of way. 
I then stumbled on a 75 page Guide to Winemaking in .pdf which goes into significantly more detail but is geared toward the first time winemaker. Really great, and it will probably push you over the edge from wine making curious, to wine maker  .

And finally, after digesting the above, I coincidentally ran into two winemakers from Woodend while knocking back a beer at Holgate. Sure, they chuckled when I told them I'd read the wiki entry for winemaking, but were happy to discuss techniques, offer tips, etc. They more or less confirmed my approach in the two wines was correct, or at least I was OK in leaving my shiraz/cab on the skins for 3 or 4 days before pressing, press directly for rose, etc. More a confidence booster than anything else. 

Have fun,
reVox


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## Airgead

Brewer Pete said:


> Bay Leaf wine



Come on... do tell...

I'm sitting here looking at the big bay tree out the back and giving this some serious thought.

Cheers
Dave


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## fraser_john

Well, here is my first bottles of wine from my own grapes made by me. Its wine, yes, but it is pretty ordinary, I have a lot to learn, but fortunately think I have some good resources to ask questions of!

The rose from this year is leaps and bounds ahead of this one already!

This one was just exposed to too much oxygen and has a nose akin to a vintage port! Tastes ok though, not as big and fruity as a good shiraz, but hey, its my first!


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## kirem

well done


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## white.grant

reVox said:


> Hi Grant,
> 
> I did a quick cram a few days before pressing my grapes as I wanted to understand the process and get an idea of what to expect in terms of additives, fermentation and so on. I pressed with an old Greek winemaker, who has been making wine for 20+ years, so I knew I was in good hands.
> 
> The wikipedia entry for winemaking really got me up to speed, in a no-nonsense sort of way.
> I then stumbled on a 75 page Guide to Winemaking in .pdf which goes into significantly more detail but is geared toward the first time winemaker. Really great, and it will probably push you over the edge from wine making curious, to wine maker  .
> 
> And finally, after digesting the above, I coincidentally ran into two winemakers from Woodend while knocking back a beer at Holgate. Sure, they chuckled when I told them I'd read the wiki entry for winemaking, but were happy to discuss techniques, offer tips, etc. They more or less confirmed my approach in the two wines was correct, or at least I was OK in leaving my shiraz/cab on the skins for 3 or 4 days before pressing, press directly for rose, etc. More a confidence booster than anything else.
> 
> Have fun,
> reVox




Thanks Revox, That's helpful stuff.

Cheers

grant


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## drsmurto

Just having a glass of my (Boston and myself) wine now.

A nice, fresh and fruity sangiovese.

Not over oaked so we achieved our goal.

I'm impressed.

Now to bottle it.... thats a whole lot of bottle cleaning <_<


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## kirem

DrSmurto said:


> Just having a glass of my (Boston and myself) wine now.
> 
> A nice, fresh and fruity sangiovese.
> 
> Not over oaked so we achieved our goal.
> 
> I'm impressed.
> 
> Now to bottle it.... thats a whole lot of bottle cleaning <_<



you made wine with a bloody viticulturalist???  

what on earth were you thinking?


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## drsmurto

kirem said:


> you made wine with a bloody viticulturalist???
> 
> what on earth were you thinking?



It was either that or steal 250kg of grapes under the cover of darkness..... 

It was actually a bottle of Bostons previous attempt that convinced me i had to have a crack, both my partner and i commented that we would have happily forked over money for it!


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## Frank

kirem said:


> you made wine with a bloody viticulturalist???
> what on earth were you thinking?


It's just like letting a winemaker into your vineyard... Most winemakers think grapes come in 2.5T bins.. :lol: 



DrSmurto said:


> It was either that or steal 250kg of grapes under the cover of darkness.....
> 
> It was actually a bottle of Bostons previous attempt that convinced me i had to have a crack, both my partner and i commented that we would have happily forked over money for it!


It is looking good, the over night lows of the Adelaide Hills would have clarified it down nicely. I am going OS on the 15th August, so we should try and lock away a day for bottling before then.


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## kirem

Boston said:


> It's just like letting a winemaker into your vineyard... Most winemakers think grapes come in 2.5T bins.. :lol:



Grapes and all that other rubbish you try to get us to process and test how much damage you can do to a destemmer/crusher. :icon_cheers:


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## Frank

kirem said:


> Grapes and all that other rubbish you try to get us to process and test how much damage you can do to a destemmer/crusher. :icon_cheers:



Bits of post, staples, steel brackets, rocks and a few lizards, it all adds to the weight to make up for the poor pricing. :icon_cheers:


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## kirem

Boston said:


> poor pricing. :icon_cheers:



maybe next vintage I'll be asked to process a bin that is 100% MOG with some water mixed through it. Although with the price of water and just about every grower crying poor, water might out of the budget, so it will just be MOG and the wineries will have to add enough liquid to get it pumpable. Nothing new there, we already fix the lack acid, tannin etc up for you.

That is something for you guys to think about after pruning is finished and your all on your way to a tropical resort for annual holidays. Don't forget to book the Bemer in for a service before you go! 
:icon_cheers: 

if your about today, I'll give you a call regarding some rhizomes.


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## Frank

kirem said:


> maybe next vintage I'll be asked to process a bin that is 100% MOG with some water mixed through it. Although with the price of water and just about every grower crying poor, water might out of the budget, so it will just be MOG and the wineries will have to add enough liquid to get it pumpable. Nothing new there, we already fix the lack acid, tannin etc up for you.
> 
> That is something for you guys to think about after pruning is finished and your all on your way to a tropical resort for annual holidays. Don't forget to book the Bemer in for a service before you go!
> :icon_cheers:
> 
> if your about today, I'll give you a call regarding some rhizomes.


No dramas. Will be in the Hills this morning... before jumping on the private jet to Pt Douglas to look at the 3rd holiday house


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## ///

Did you get to the airport in your Range Rover Vogue

Keen to get out of the brewery and do some vintage work somewhere this next vintage, apart from have a dabble at home.

Was in the hunter last week and its been yonks since I was ina acellar door. Geez the wine and the folks at Pepper Tree were professional and awesome. What a great afternoon! And I actually bought stuff ... which I seldom do ...

Thanks for the links to wiki and the pdf ...

Scotty


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## Frank

/// said:


> Did you get to the airport in your Range Rover Vogue



Range Rover is dirty, will get my driver to drop me off in the Lexus.


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## kirem

Boston said:


> Range Rover is dirty, will get my driver to drop me off in the Lexus.



I KNEW IT!


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## ///

kirem said:


> I KNEW IT!



Any person that consumes 4 litres of beer ... and you have not left the kegging fridge yet ... ey' ey' ...


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## kirem

/// said:


> Any person that consumes 4 litres of beer ... and you have not left the kegging fridge yet ... ey' ey' ...



sounds like someone I should meet


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## fraser_john

First racking after fermentation, tastes and looks good!


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## kirem

fraser_john said:


> First racking after fermentation, tastes and looks good!



looks good. Did you aim for an onion skin colour?


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## fraser_john

kirem said:


> looks good. Did you aim for an onion skin colour?



har har har de har  of course I did!

I had always aimed for the rose, well, hoppinmad had instructed me I'd be better of aiming for the rose given it was 60% stems :angry: 

Next year will be better, my 2kg of cow-peas have sprouted in between the rows and I have got the weeds in the row under control. I'll ensure I don't get powdery mildew this year as well. Of 80 odd vines, only 25 are pruned for fruit this year, the remainder have been pruned back to prepare to get an upside down L per your advice, thanks!


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## drsmurto

Polished off a bottle of last years vintage last night. Tasting pretty good IMO.

And now to this years vintage which got to a slightly larger scale than i had imagined.

Went from 1/4 tonne last year to 1 tonne this year. Switched from straight sangio to a blend of sangio/cabernet/grenache.

Hoping for something bigger this year so we'll be leaving it on the skins for a lot longer and oaking it more.

Here's one of the bins we are fermenting in - i am plunging the cap twice daily by hand. It's a good workout as i am squishing the grapes at the same time!


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## Effect

looks the goods! very keen to try some home made wine!


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## Back Yard Brewer

DrSmurto said:


> Polished off a bottle of last years vintage last night. Tasting pretty good IMO.
> 
> And now to this years vintage which got to a slightly larger scale than i had imagined.
> 
> Went from 1/4 tonne last year to 1 tonne this year. Switched from straight sangio to a blend of sangio/cabernet/grenache.
> 
> Hoping for something bigger this year so we'll be leaving it on the skins for a lot longer and oaking it more.
> 
> Here's one of the bins we are fermenting in - i am plunging the cap twice daily by hand. It's a good workout as i am squishing the grapes at the same time!




And all you need now is something more affective to plunge the cap with  


BYB


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## kirem

what do you get when cross a Viticulturalist and a Rocket scientist?


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## chappo1970

Geezus DrS lucky you only do things by halves. I would to see when you throw yourself into something. Great stuff look forward to seeing the results.




kirem said:


> what do you get when cross a Viticulturalist and a Rocket scientist?




:lol:


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## Frank

kirem said:


> what do you get when cross a Viticulturalist and a Rocket scientist?


I didn't realize their was any difference... 

This fruit has not gone through a traditional crusher, so we would have approx 25% whole berries at the moment, so we are indirectly doing a bit of a Carbonic Maceration.


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## manticle

Looking forward to having a crack myself. Hopefully I won't be too late for this year's harvest - Grape crusher arriving around Easter (thanks FJ).


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## Ducatiboy stu

Boston said:


> Range Rover is dirty, will get my driver to drop me off in the Lexus.


 A Toyota Avalon taxi is almost a chuaffure driven Lexus


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## zoidbergmerc

Ducatiboy stu said:


> A Toyota Avalon taxi is almost a chuaffure driven Lexus



Pretty much the same thing except one with reak of curry and BO


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## kirem

Boston said:


> I didn't realize their was any difference...
> 
> This fruit has not gone through a traditional crusher, so we would have approx 25% whole berries at the moment, so we are indirectly doing a bit of a Carbonic Maceration.



It will be interesting to see if you get any cabmac character. I try to get cab mac wiith whole bunch rather than whole berries. In my experiences, the whole berries still break down in the fermentation, I think the yeast can get in through where the pedicel was attached.

I did cab mac last vintage on the sangiovese and the berries where still tight on the bunches at press. I tasted a few and they had a lot of the cab mac character.

I'd be interested in how you go.

the sangio/cab sauv /grenache sounds like a good mix. All from the Hills?


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## Frank

All Adelaide Hills GI. Also trying about 6T of Sang cab mac at the vineyard. Hand picked with about 30L of active must over the top and sealed in plastic bags.


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## kirem

Boston said:


> All Adelaide Hills GI. Also trying about 6T of Sang cab mac at the vineyard. Hand picked with about 30L of active must over the top and sealed in plastic bags.



how old is the grenache vineyard and is there any left?


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## Effect

What sort of flavours does this cab mac impart?


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## kirem

Phillip said:


> What sort of flavours does this cab mac impart?



dependant on variety but normally a fruiter character, I often get raspberry type form Shiraz, but once you have tasted a cab mac wine the character is unmistakable.

The structure is different as well, more rounded mouth feel. From memory from a higher glycerol production.

Find a place that sells current vintage beaujolais. It will have the cab mac character.

It is not a character I like a lot of, but I find it can add a good level of complexity to a wine when done as a small percentage, I go for 5-10% whole bunch in most of my fermentations.


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## fraser_john

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonic_maceration
http://wineintro.com/glossary/c/carbonic.html

Fruitiness, rasberry hints


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## DUANNE

does any one on here have an opinion on those wine kits like you get at grain and grape.wouldnt mind having a go but dont really want to jump right off the deep end just yet.are they worth it or will i endup with a cask wine type of result.


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## marksfish

ask your bro


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## Frank

kirem said:


> how old is the grenache vineyard and is there any left?


The Grenache is about 10 years old. I will need to see on Monday how much is left, might have a bit of Nebbiolo, no Montepulciano though, the heat wave in November fried it. Got a bit of Savignan Blanc (Previously known as Albarino) a few are going to try it as a port base. Nearly everything picked in the hills and Barossa now.


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## Siborg

No way!!! fraser_john... I've been watching some of your videos on youtube lately to learn a bit about AG brewing. I should have figured you'd be on this site somewhere. Nice job on the videos, by the way


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## rendo

manticle said:


> Looking forward to having a crack myself. Hopefully I won't be too late for this year's harvest - Grape crusher arriving around Easter (thanks FJ).




OH NO....dont show me this....NO!!!...If I see wine making then I will get into it too....NOOOOOOOOO.......

So where do I start  

Where can I buy shiraz grapes? Awww fcuk!!! Wine making here i come...


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## fraser_john

My shiraz, another poor vintage, but due to extra heavy pruning to get the vines shaped properly, next year should be awesome.


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## fraser_john

Siborg said:


> No way!!! fraser_john... I've been watching some of your videos on youtube lately to learn a bit about AG brewing. I should have figured you'd be on this site somewhere. Nice job on the videos, by the way



ha ha, awesome siborg, just saw this comment


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## Siborg

John, you grow all your own grapes and make wine... that's really awesome! I was gonna get into it just before I discovered there was more to beer making besides kits, and was kind of put off when told that wine costs more to make... unless you know someone who you can buy grapes from or grow your own.


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## fraser_john

At the right time of year you can buy grapes easily by the kg, might be getting a tad late now, though round Geelong there are still some people selling, pricey though due to cooler climate.


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## Siborg

fraser_john said:


> At the right time of year you can buy grapes easily by the kg, might be getting a tad late now, though round Geelong there are still some people selling, pricey though due to cooler climate.



Hmmmm. Maybe I'll get better at beer first. Then I'll try my hand at wine.


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## drsmurto

kirem said:


> dependant on variety but normally a fruiter character, I often get raspberry type form Shiraz, but once you have tasted a cab mac wine the character is unmistakable.
> 
> The structure is different as well, more rounded mouth feel. From memory from a higher glycerol production.
> 
> Find a place that sells current vintage beaujolais. It will have the cab mac character.
> 
> It is not a character I like a lot of, but I find it can add a good level of complexity to a wine when done as a small percentage, I go for 5-10% whole bunch in most of my fermentations.




Mmmmm, beaujolais.

I was living in France about 10 years ago and was told by the fellow labrats that they were throwing a beaujolais party. I didnt understand what they were on about so they took me shopping. We left the supermarket with a trolley full of wine, cheese, baguettes etc. Glass of wine in hand, chunks of baguette with a slab of cheese. Jaysus it was a tough period in my life!

Last years sangiovese is certainly more fruit driven that your traditional oaked red wines. Whilst we added a small amount of oak for the 5 days it was fermented on skin the wine is lighter in colour, lower in tannins and far too easy to drink. I did squish the grapes when i was plunging the cap twice a day but when we pressed it there were a lot of whole grapes.

Never thought to compare it to beaujolais but i can sort of see what you are talking about.

For the first few years i was back in Australia a french mate sent me a bottle of fresh beaujolais. Might have to convince him to do so again.

Back to the current vintage - BYB lent me his trophy from ANAWBS 2005 - a cap plunger engraved with his name! No more hand plunging - makes life easier! Smelling good!


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## T.D.

/// said:


> Geez the wine and the folks at Pepper Tree were professional and awesome. What a great afternoon! And I actually bought stuff ... which I seldom do ...



Yeah I agree. Pepper Tree is one of the standouts of the hunter these days.


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## kirem

T.D. said:


> Yeah I agree. Pepper Tree is one of the standouts of the hunter these days.




any affiliations?


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## KoNG

Pepper Tree is great agreed...

I got married here at this winery just up the road... Tallavera Grove: http://www.tallaveragrove.com.au/
it was awesome, got married and had the reception there.

Dooo Itttt


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## T.D.

kirem said:


> any affiliations?



:lol: maybe a teeny weeny one...


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## warrenlw63

Geez T.D. next thing you'll be telling us you're a forum sponsor.... Noooooo!  

Warren -


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## Gerard_M

/// said:


> Geez the wine and the folks at Pepper Tree were professional and awesome. What a great afternoon! And I actually bought stuff ... which I seldom do ...
> Scotty



Pepper Tree just gets better & better each year. Without a doubt "the benchmark" of NSW wineries. I was fortunate enough to have a serious sample at the Hyde Park wine festival a couple of weeks ago. Could be time for a Bulk Buy!
Cheers
Gerard


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## drsmurto

Pressing day today. Took us ~6 hours but no bucketing of wine into fermenters this year - Boston brought around his trusty march pump and HLT! We used a different press this year - this one had 2 gears so made life much simpler and we were able to press hard and extract some lovely tannins. Filled the press up 3 times - compost pile is huge.

Ended up with 860L (the big fermenters in the pic are 200L each).  

Translates to ~95 cases (assuming no losses during bottling) B) 

Tasted quite nice, one bin showed more oak character than the other but they will be blended up prior to bottling. Still to flick over to malolactic fermentation but despite that i could happily drink a bottle or 2 as it is.


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## pokolbinguy

DrSmurto I am very very very jealous of you and your setup + shed. 

How much did you pay for the press? and how much does it fit?

Pok


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## hoppinmad

2010 Geelong Cabernet Sauvignon

Brix: 23.5
pH: 3.8
TA: 4.28
YAN: 337

Picked at flavour ripeness

2g/L Tartaric Acid addition

Currently fermenting at 19C... with any luck we'll get some warm weather to improve extraction!

Pumping over once daily
Plunging cap twice daily

To be macerated post ferment.

Looking like it will be a cracker!


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## pokolbinguy

Nice little setup by the looks there HoppinMad....really got to get myself my own winery when I head back to the Hunter after my wine making degree


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## hoppinmad

pokolbinguy said:


> Nice little setup by the looks there HoppinMad....really got to get myself my own winery when I head back to the Hunter after my wine making degree



you don't need your own winery... you'll find your wine industry mates will do everything they can to help you make your first wine... eventually you'll have enough of your own stuff not to need their help! This is the first year I am flying completely solo. Apart from a friend who does lab analyses, I am able to do it all myself this year.


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## pokolbinguy

HoppinMad said:


> you don't need your own winery... you'll find your wine industry mates will do everything they can to help you make your first wine... eventually you'll have enough of your own stuff not to need their help! This is the first year I am flying completely solo. Apart from a friend who does lab analyses, I am able to do it all myself this year.



True...but I like the idea of having my own "back yard shed operation"


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## drsmurto

pokolbinguy said:


> DrSmurto I am very very very jealous of you and your setup + shed.
> 
> How much did you pay for the press? and how much does it fit?
> 
> Pok



$0. One of the Barossa AMB brethren hooked me up. Its been cleaned and sulphured ready to return. 

We estimate that in the 3 runs through the press we had ~1.2 tonne. 

You'll have to drag your carcass along to an AMB meet for a sample.  

Hoppin - looks good mate. Whilst i would love to have my own vineyard (hopyard, orchard etc) its so much easier when the grapes arrive at my doorstep on the back of a trailer! Agree - plenty of brewers around who are connected with the wine industry here, never short of a helping hand.


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## fraser_john

Looks excellent Hoppin, shame I could not be there for harvest, bummed about that 

Good to see the stainless seive is working well too!


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## hoppinmad

fraser_john said:


> Looks excellent Hoppin, shame I could not be there for harvest, bummed about that
> 
> Good to see the stainless seive is working well too!



Was a long day! started at 8.30am finished at 4pm. Vines were very low cropping so took ages to fill our bins.

Stainless seive works great. Mick the welder in drysdale did the job for $2! So in total the whole thing only cost me $22.


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## manticle

Quick question- The main time to avoid oxidation is post ferment? Splashing juice/must around before that doesn't matter?

Just got Fraser John's old grape crusher and thought I might miss this year's harvest but get set up for next season. Mainly hoping to do Reds. However, a work colleague lives locally and had a fair few grapes growing on a vine in the backyard. They are green, not red, very juicy but he reckons crap for eating so they'll form the basis of an experimental batch just to get an undertsanding of process. I'm not expecting much but I want to at least get a result that teaches me for next time and I'm avoiding sulphites so I need to be extra careful with oxidation.

Probably got 15 kg with at least that still left on the vine so maybe get half a case from it. Only wanting to start small and build from there.

Cheers


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## Muggus

manticle said:


> Quick question- The main time to avoid oxidation is post ferment? Splashing juice/must around before that doesn't matter?
> 
> Just got Fraser John's old grape crusher and thought I might miss this year's harvest but get set up for next season. Mainly hoping to do Reds. However, a work colleague lives locally and had a fair few grapes growing on a vine in the backyard. They are green, not red, very juicy but he reckons crap for eating so they'll form the basis of an experimental batch just to get an undertsanding of process. I'm not expecting much but I want to at least get a result that teaches me for next time and I'm avoiding sulphites so I need to be extra careful with oxidation.
> 
> Probably got 15 kg with at least that still left on the vine so maybe get half a case from it. Only wanting to start small and build from there.
> 
> Cheers


Two chemicals come to mind...
SO2 and CO2


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## hoppinmad

manticle said:


> The main time to avoid oxidation is post ferment? Splashing juice/must around before that doesn't matter?



I would only splash around fermenting wine, as it will be saturated with CO2 and will continue producing CO2. White wine juice and finished wine should handled more carefully with minimal exposure to oxygen.

Also, in regards to sulfites, I think you will be making life pretty hard for yourself if you avoid using them. It takes a fair bit of skill to make a good quality "low sulfite" wine. Try to make it with sulfite first, then when you become experienced you could experiment with using less.


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## manticle

Cheers for the responses.

This batch of grapes is purely experimental - I don't even know what they are so I'm just seeing this as practice of process for next season. I have no expectation of making anything drinkable but getting my head around the basics will be the aim. Then with a bit more of an idea I can make the wine I really want to make next harvest (which will be a different colour to this one).


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## Airgead

DrSmurto said:


> Pressing day today. Took us ~6 hours but no bucketing of wine into fermenters this year - Boston brought around his trusty march pump and HLT! We used a different press this year - this one had 2 gears so made life much simpler and we were able to press hard and extract some lovely tannins. Filled the press up 3 times - compost pile is huge.



:icon_offtopic: 

I am working out a deal with an orchard for next years cider. I may be picking up a couple of hundred kg of fruit. I suspect my little bench juicer won't survive. How do you guys reckon a wine press like that would handle pressing apple pulp? I'm thinking of mashing the fruit to a pulp and putting it in the press inside a muslin bag to stop the pulp escaping. Do you think the press would be up to it? Apples have more solids than grapes so its likely to be harder going...

Cheers
Dave


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## waggastew

I read something the other day about using an sink garbage disposal (Insinkerator) unit to crush grapes/apples? Might make it easier as it will totally blitz everything to a very fine pulp?


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## drsmurto

Airgead said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> I am working out a deal with an orchard for next years cider. I may be picking up a couple of hundred kg of fruit. I suspect my little bench juicer won't survive. How do you guys reckon a wine press like that would handle pressing apple pulp? I'm thinking of mashing the fruit to a pulp and putting it in the press inside a muslin bag to stop the pulp escaping. Do you think the press would be up to it? Apples have more solids than grapes so its likely to be harder going...
> 
> Cheers
> Dave



I don't see why not.


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## Airgead

DrSmurto said:


> I don't see why not.



Cool.

Finding one in Sydney might be a problem given that Sydney isn't exactly the wine capital of Australia. Maybe there's someone in the Hunter who could lend me one in the off season.

Cheers
Dave


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## drsmurto

Boston and I had the tough task of tasting the wine on the weekend before adjusting the pH and adding oak staves.

Its coming along nicely but it did take a few samples just to make sure and then some Imperial Landlord to cleanse the palate :icon_drunk: 

We needed to draw out more than 1L in one of the barrels just to fit the oak in so i have added a small amount of red wine vinegar to it and left it to do its thing. 

Anyone else had a crack at making their own vinegar? I did do some searching about it and read that most people buy a 'vinegar mother' to kickstart the process but did find a few references to just leaving it sit for a few months.


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## Back Yard Brewer

DrSmurto said:


> Anyone else had a crack at making their own vinegar? I did do some searching about it and read that most people buy a 'vinegar mother' to kickstart the process but did find a few references to just leaving it sit for a few months.




Next time you are in the Barossa call in at Seppeltsfied Winery. From memory they are now making vinegar again along with that gorgeous red raspberry cordial. You may be able to pick some brains.

BYB


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## drsmurto

We oaked the wine a month ago and had a taste during the week. Very happy to taste/smell the oak coming through.

Discovered pics of the oak staves on my camera so here they are.

A combination of 2 different sorts of french oak, 2-3 per 200L barrel.


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## drsmurto

Beer is 1 step closer to the bottle.

It was racked into a 1000L container and is now sitting in a cool room waiting until we can get it bottled in late March.

Just shy of 800L :icon_drunk:


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## hoppinmad

DrSmurto said:


> Beer is 1 step closer to the bottle.



funny lookin beer :lol: 

your wine looks great... my '10 Cabernet is sleeping soundly in the cool room still. Will be putting it in a new french oak hogshead this month and looking to bottle August/September this year. Looking like it will be a cracker if i do say so myself!


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## drsmurto

HoppinMad said:


> funny lookin beer :lol:
> 
> your wine looks great... my '10 Cabernet is sleeping soundly in the cool room still. Will be putting it in a new french oak hogshead this month and looking to bottle August/September this year. Looking like it will be a cracker if i do say so myself!



<_< Damn it, i was even drinking wine whilst posting. :icon_drunk: 

We cleaned (well, Boston cleaned, i watched) the oak staves after racking. Not sure if its worth trying to re-use them for anything else. Not sure i will make wine again anytime soon, work seems to be supplying me with wine at quite a good price.......

As it turns out, i cant count. We used 4 staves per barrel.

And they let me play with explosives :blink:


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## Innes

DrSmurto said:


> Not sure if its worth trying to re-use them for anything else.


You could try steeping them in a Nelson Sauvin hopped pale ale :icon_drunk:


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## DUANNE

might be just the thing in a lambic/funky style beer.


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## drsmurto

Speaking of steeping and wine....

I am tempted to do similar to that i saw in a youtube video and dry hop some white wine.....

Was thinking recently during a wine sensory session at work that the aromas from fresh hop flowers would go very well in something as aromatic as a sauvignon blanc or perhaps a riesling.


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## Muggus

Doing 2 batches this year; both Shiraz from the Hunter, but both very different.

First batch I started a couple of weeks back with a class mate who got 800kg of machine picked Shiraz through his work. We've made this wine at the TAFE and used their equipment for it.







My PERSONAL batch, I picked 50kg of the best grapes left from a block at work, and made it with whatever I could muster up around the house. Picked it on Monday and so far so good.


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## hoppinmad

Muggus said:


> Doing 2 batches this year; both Shiraz from the Hunter, but both very different.



what yeast are you using?


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## Muggus

HoppinMad said:


> what yeast are you using?


Blend of yeasts for the big batch...F15 and FX10...can't remember the maker, it's all written down at college.

For my personal blend I was given a packet of out of date Enoferm BDX from work. Didn't take much to get it going, though there was at least a day of lag phase, but that may have been a result of the 50mg/kg of SO2 I nuked it with during crushing!


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## Greg.L

I heard the vintage for reds in the hunter is the best for years. A good year to be making hunter shiraz.

A good year in the central tablelands for vineyards that survived the mildew in spring/early summer.


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## Muggus

Greg.L said:


> I heard the vintage for reds in the hunter is the best for years. A good year to be making hunter shiraz.
> 
> A good year in the central tablelands for vineyards that survived the mildew in spring/early summer.


Yeah, the vintage has been quite good in the Hunter, very dry and hot during harvest, well looked after vineyards can really afford to let their fruit hang FAR longer than usual.
From what i've heard, the whites, Semillon and Chardonnay in particular, should be excellent across the board.
As for the reds, they're set to be good if you survived that week of extreme heat. Alot of the lower cropped Shiraz was picked before the heatwave, and they should look fantastic. However it looks like most vines suffered during the heatwave, and most lost a good amount of leaf and the grapes themself did dehydrate quite a bit without being particularly ripe or flavoursome, especially the overcropped vines.

Having said that, the boys at work reckon the cabernet is the best they've ever seen from the vineyard, and we could realistically let it hang for another month if this lack of rain keeps up...but we've been hit by bats instead! h34r:


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## Greg.L

Muggus said:


> Having said that, the boys at work reckon the cabernet is the best they've ever seen from the vineyard, and we could realistically let it hang for another month if this lack of rain keeps up...but we've been hit by bats instead! h34r:



Pity about the heatwave, the hunter does get pretty hot. Bats here for the first time ever, but I have to net my little vineyard anyway so no problem for me.

I have to pick my cab sav by mid april, I hope its ripe enough by then.


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## Muggus

Greg.L said:


> I have to pick my cab sav by mid april, I hope its ripe enough by then.


April! Crickey, that's unheard of in the Hunter. 
Infact, it's a miracle that we're still picking in the Hunter right now...it just never happens!


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## pokolbinguy

Hey Muggus where do you work in the Hunter?


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## sinkas

Anyone have info on where I might get some West aussie must?


----------



## Muggus

pokolbinguy said:


> Hey Muggus where do you work in the Hunter?


I'm working over at Lakes Folly, mostly in the vineyard and occasionally in the winery doing fun stuff like plunging vats and bucketing them out. :blink: 

Also work the odd weekend at Waverley estate at the cellar door.


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## Tim F

We picked half a ton of Shiraz today from a hobby farmer at Virginia for 50c/kilo. Cheap but the grapes seem ok... time will tell!

This is the first year using a destemmer - last year we destemmed the trailer full by hand. What a difference it makes - 15 min vs 4 hours.

23 Brix, TA 6.75, pH 3.8. We added tartaric acid to get the pH to 3.5.

We decided to leave the tanks outdoors, on the south side of the verandah sitting on the concrete - it will be cooler there than in the shed. They will be covered of course. Now I'm drinking some of last years Shiraz to celebrate... mmmm....

Sorry about the crappy phone pics


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## Canuck Paolo

I moved here from Canada in 2011. My biggest disappointment was not effectively being able to make wine on a small scale. My family had made wine in Canada from the time my ancestors arrived. Over the years we made smaller but higher quality batches (approximately 500-1000 litres per year). This wine was fabulous and won awards. There were numerous outlets in which you could buy grapes or as we did refrigerated juices from around the world. In addition to my cellar, I arrived here with all of the equiment to make wine ... but can not source the juices and have become too old to go through the extraction effort myself. It looks like that hobby is over unless I can source reasonable quantities of juice at fair prices. 

Here is an example of some of the places you could source juice.

http://www.kamiljuices.com/

and an example of what you could buy

http://www.vinbon.ca...duct-list/c1s52

Living in Mackay complicates my chances further, but if anyone has any suggestions ... I'd love to hear from you ... and I am more than happy to share my years of experience with anyone local.

I have made some mead here, but it is not vino ... other like it ... I'll drink it.


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## Yob

Maybe shoot Dr Smurto a message, he's in the industry and may have some insight or contacts that may be of assistance


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## GalBrew

There are plenty of places in Australia where you can buy grapes for winemaking. One place off the top of my head is Shiraz Republic: http://shirazrepublic.com.au. Perhaps you would have better luck on one of the winemaking forums with this question?


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