# Finings: Necessary?



## ldw553 (18/1/14)

Hey there, first brew has been in the fermenter for a week now, I plan to leave it for 14 days as per suggestions - but have just read about finings. If I'm leaving the brew for 14 days and bottling straight from the fermenter, how necessary are finings? I'm also wary of the fact that they seem to be made of gelatin which would mean my vegan sister wouldn't drink the beer.

If I were to use finings, is it just a case of opening the fermenter on the 14th day, add the finings and leave for a few more days before bottling?

Thanks for your help guys!


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## HardEight (18/1/14)

shhhh.. don't tell her...


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## HardEight (18/1/14)

I ferment in the primary for a week ... then add (1/2Tbsp gelatine with 1Tbsp of raw sugar (or any sugar) in 1 cup of hot water) to the primary
Then decant to a secondary fermenter for another week... then bottle...

You can add finings to the primary... then wait a few days... then bottle... but try not to disrupt the fermenter much while you bottle...
14 days in the primary is overkill for a new brewer imo...


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## ldw553 (18/1/14)

Overkill how? Can't do any harm surely? I'd rather bottle earlier but I was told by others to leave it 2 weeks. It's bubbling like once every 30 seconds at the moment. 
What's the benefit in moving it to a secondary container?


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## ldw553 (18/1/14)

And if I add finings to it a few days before bottling won't the air affect the wort?


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## malt and barley blues (18/1/14)

Some folk like to leave it in the primary until ready for bottling others, like to rack into secondary, I used to leave mine and bottle from the primary but I now use a secondary and leave for a couple of weeks sometimes longer it will clear without finings depending on the beer, if you are going to use finings gelatine is the easier one to use, but all the choices are yours to try and then see what you prefer to do.


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## indica86 (18/1/14)

Finings are not necessary.
Clear beer is not necessary.

Was it all grain or kits?
14 days is not overkill.


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## Midnight Brew (18/1/14)

Do you have a spare fridge?

Moving the fermenter into the fridge helps the yeast settle down tot he bottom of the fermenter. If you keg, you're already at a cold carbonation temperature to turn the co2 on straight away.


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## hellbent (18/1/14)

ldw553 said:


> my vegan sister wouldn't drink the beer.


Mate if she was like my sister I wouldn't let her drink the beer!! In fact I would put signage around saying it had meat products in it!!
I still have visions nightmares of how bitchy my sister would get after being on the fire-water the night before, believe me hell was like heaven compared to her ..... not pretty


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## TheWiggman (18/1/14)

14 days in the primary gives you complete assurance with a kit brew that primary fermentation is complete and you have almost zero risk of exploding bottles. New brewers - myself included - are keen as to bottle and try it and can misinterpret inactivity as "time to bottle". 
I've added finings once and couldn't tell a difference. Do a few more batches and if you're unhappy with the beer's appearance, think about it then. 

My advice would be keep it simple for the time being. Most brewers don't use finings and still end up with clear beer.


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## Gavo (18/1/14)

Finings are not needed, in my kit days I tried them once and never noticed a difference. 14 days in the fermenter will give plenty of time for gravity to do the job of clearing the beer. As said, if you can get the fermenter in a fridge once the fermentation is finished then even better, even just keeping it as cool as possible will help.


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## indica86 (18/1/14)

Can cold crash in an esky too. That works well.


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## Black Devil Dog (18/1/14)

Finings work really well to clear your beer up quickly. There are other ways of clearing beer, but if you want it really clear in a few days, finings will do it.

I've been using gelatin lately and even though I once said I'd never use it, the results are so good that I'll continue to use it.

Once fermentation is done, chill the beer for a day or several.

I dissolve 1 teaspoon of gelatin in 100ml of boiled water, that I've allowed to cool to 75deg, stir with a sanitised spoon until completely dissolved.

Gently pour into your fermenter and keep it chilled for another couple of days. 

As for vegan issues, the gelatin drops to the bottom of the fermenter and is discarded with all the other waste, it's not like it remains in the beer.


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## pcmfisher (18/1/14)

What about the poor little yeasts that have given their life for your beer. They were living things too. Is your sister concerned about them in your beer?


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## Bribie G (18/1/14)

Finings are useful in the fermenter or cold conditioning vessel, in fact I'm going to add some today to a double batch that's sitting in a 60L FV to help the yeasts settle out more quickly so I can keg.

When I add them to the FV I give a squirt of CO2 into the headspace then clingwrap again.

However gelatine finings are not a good idea into the keg itself or into bottles. The beer clears out quickly but you tend to get "fluffy bottoms" that swirl up on the slightest movement and completely negate the reason you used the finings in the first place.


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## Yob (18/1/14)

with patience, finings do little that good cold conditioning cant do... a week or so at 1'c does wonders to clear a brew.

Ive got Vegan friends too and have never used gelatine for this reason, if it drops to the bottom or not isnt the point, if it's been in contact with the beer I honestly couldnt serve it to them without telling them it's had it in it.


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## Black Devil Dog (18/1/14)

Can vegans eat vegetables that have had animal waste fertilisers used on them?


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## manticle (18/1/14)

Depends on how strictly they interpret the diet and how much research they put into it but most would object and most I've known are pretty serious about the efforts they make to know where their food comes from. FYI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock-free_agriculture The point for a vegan is not just about whether they personally consume animal products but to avoid it being used anywhere, at all in the production.

Gelatine in beer is in no way vegan friendly and no OP you do not need it. Leaving your beer for a decent amount of time to finish fermenting and condition also gives yeast some time to drop out and is a smart idea. Cold conditioning mentioned by Yob is also a good idea if you can do it.


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## ldw553 (19/1/14)

Hey just checking my hydrometer, it's very hard to understand - or maybe I'm an idiot haha- approx sugar grams per Litre is around 26?


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## Alex.Tas (19/1/14)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77565-new-to-brewing/

Try that thread. Teaches you how to use a hydrometer.

Like others have said, chilling your beer down in the FV for a few days before you bottle/rack does help a great deal. Makes the yeast drop out and sort of stick the the bottom of the FV, rather than being transferred into your beer.

Doing the same thing once its in the bottle also works wonders too - put the beer in the fridge a few days before you plan to drink it. the longer the better really. but even putting your friday arvo beers in on tuesday morn rather than friday morning does help - trust me.


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## Gavo (19/1/14)

Soundsl like 1.026, could this be the case? If so it still has a lot of fermenting to do. What was the original reading if you took one? What temperature have you been fermenting at?


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## ldw553 (19/1/14)

One more annoying question (sorry!) I finally worked out the reading, thanks heaps for that. I didn't loosen the lid before getting some out of the tap. Is that an issue?


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## ldw553 (19/1/14)

Sorry Gavo just saw that. Temp is at a constant 22 (using ice bucket). I worked out the reading and it's around 1012-1014. Still bubbling once a minute


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## Gavo (19/1/14)

Only a possible issue if some of the water in the airlock is sucked back in. But at theis stage sit back and relax, all will probably be good with the brew, I've done the same with no issue many a time.


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## Yob (19/1/14)

assuming you are using an airlock in the lid? make sure it doesnt suck back is a good rule, instead of water use a sanitiser in there or some use Vodka

or

replace the lid with glad wrap and hurl the airlock into the bin and never have to think about the issue again


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## Gavo (19/1/14)

Only really asked about the temp as I thought that 1.026 was a bit high for a week in the fermenter, your actual reading sounds about on target. Another week and it should be fine, just check your readings are constant before bottling. Good work with the ice bath and keeping the temp down as much as you can, although around 18 deg would be better.


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## Trevandjo (19/1/14)

Are you being fair dinkum Yob? With the glad wrap I mean.


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## yum beer (19/1/14)

nah, he's fucken wid ya'


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## peas_and_corn (19/1/14)

Use isinglass to fine. It's made of seaweed and thus vegan


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## manticle (19/1/14)

Fish gut seaweed?


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## Yob (19/1/14)

Trevandjo said:


> Are you being fair dinkum Yob? With the glad wrap I mean.


very much so, I only use my lid for cleaning / sanitizing purposes.. as do a great many other people.


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## peas_and_corn (19/1/14)

manticle said:


> Fish gut seaweed?



*facepalm* got it confused with Irish moss for some reason


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## Trevandjo (19/1/14)

Yob said:


> very much so, I only use my lid for cleaning / sanitizing purposes.. as do a great many other people.
> 
> Double FV Gladwrap.jpg


I'll be buggered! Thanks for the pic or I wouldn't have believed it. What have you got around the glad wrap? Bungee cord? O-ring?

Sorry for hijacking the thread.


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## Sea_Eagle (19/1/14)

Trevandjo said:


> I'll be buggered! Thanks for the pic or I wouldn't have believed it. What have you got around the glad wrap? Bungee cord? O-ring?
> 
> Sorry for hijacking the thread.



A fair few people use the old glad wrap trick, use the rubber O ring out of your lid to hold the wrap on.


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## Yob (19/1/14)

Or just a big rubber band


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## Bridges (19/1/14)

+1 Gladwrap on FV.
+1 Cold crash at 1 degree and time will clear your beer nicely


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## Back Yard Brewer (19/1/14)

Take my opinion either which way. I am a AG brewer. I find that AG beer (mine that is) clears a lot quicker with finnings. I am a kegger and a bottler. Yes I know it shouldn't matter how clear it is but when one has friends over its nice to present something that looks drinkable. My process is as follows
1) Rack finished beer into the kegFinnings is far more effective when added to a cold liquid.( IMHO )
2) When keg has been chilled I add finnings and force carb in my usual fashion. Finnings is far more effective when added to a cold liquid.( IMHO )
3) Initially the beer will still be cloudy but over a few days it tends to clear quite well.

As for bottling I do add the finnings to the "warm" finished beer once it has been racked. Bulk prime and bottle. It works for me but everyone to their own I suppose..

My 2c


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## Yob (19/1/14)

you put finings _*IN*_ the keg? :blink:

Doesnt that mean you're drinking the finnings and all the particulate in the 'cloudy beer'?


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## Back Yard Brewer (19/1/14)

Yob said:


> you put finings _*IN*_ the keg? :blink:
> 
> Doesnt that mean you're drinking the finnings and all the particulate in the 'cloudy beer'?


Hasn't affected me yet in the 5yrs I have been doing it :lol: Come to think of it none of my regulars evers hown any signs of side affects either :lol: Have entered beer into state and national comps and it has not been a problem. Dunno......... Maybe I oughta call in the "Myth Busters" h34r:

Andy.....


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## manticle (19/1/14)

Yob said:


> you put finings _*IN*_ the keg? :blink:
> 
> Doesnt that mean you're drinking the finnings and all the particulate in the 'cloudy beer'?


Gelatine in kegs is not uncommon as far as I know.

Still doesn't help the OP's vegan sister.


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## Jason_brews_beer (19/1/14)

So what does the glad wrap do?? why use it over an airlock?


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## manticle (19/1/14)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article131.html


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## HardEight (20/1/14)

So ferment... (about a week)
add finings (gelatine) then rack to secondary... (about a week)
Then either bottle (2 weeks)... or rack to keg.. chill ... carb... (a few days)

Tell the sister "Its Pure Clear Beer!!! Enjoy!"


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## Yob (20/1/14)

Uncool to use gelatine and not disclose its been in there in contact with the beer, a vegan wont have a bar of it


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## mckenry (20/1/14)

HardEight said:


> I ferment in the primary for a week ... then add (*1/2Tbsp gelatine with 1Tbsp of raw sugar (or any sugar) in 1 cup of hot water)* to the primary
> Then decant to a secondary fermenter for another week... then bottle...
> 
> You can add finings to the primary... then wait a few days... then bottle... but try not to disrupt the fermenter much while you bottle...
> 14 days in the primary is overkill for a new brewer imo...


What is this about? Why add more sugar? Youll start another ferment (small I know, but still...) which is counter to why/when you add finings.

FWIW, finings work post fermentation, at any stage. (PFV, SFV, keg) etc but dont bottle with it. Colder the better.

My method, which is one of many that work, is to ferment, cold crash, finings all in the PFV, then filter and keg. I used to go to SFV for CC and finings, just on advice, but a few here mentioned doing all that in the PFV. I tried it and the results were exactly the same as using a SFV, except there was more beer to keg as losses were only encountered once. Just the one FV to clean, less chance of exposure to nasties and less work!
Lately I've really been trying to point out that there are genuine reasons for using a secondary FV, but just to clear beer, especially ales, doesnt seem to be one as far as I can tell. Lagering longer term may well be worth going to secondary when yeast health is a consideration, but knocking out quick ales - not required IMHO.
To the OP, a CC in primary will still clear the beer up without finings, it'll just take longer.


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## chemfish (20/1/14)

Try agar, usually not as effective as gelatine in cooking but I don't see why it wouldn't serve the same purpose.


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## Jason_brews_beer (20/1/14)

manticle said:


> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article131.html


So no particular reason other than seeing whats going on and fridge space... May give it a go at some stage


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## manticle (20/1/14)

And it's easy, doesn't involve extra cleaning and no-one freaks out when it doesn't bubble.


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## Parks (21/1/14)

Jason_brews_beer said:


> So no particular reason other than seeing whats going on and fridge space... May give it a go at some stage


And if you have a yeast explosion you can whip it off and put some new stuff on!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Parks (21/1/14)

Back to the OP: 

Ferment for 2 weeks
Chill for 1 week
Bottle

Don't use a secondary just for clearing. As others have said it's just more cleaning and chance of infection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Donske (21/1/14)

Jason_brews_beer said:


> So no particular reason other than seeing whats going on and fridge space... May give it a go at some stage



Just keep in mind that there are some yeasts you want a lid and air lock, just so it's easier to fit a blow off tube, there is no way on earth I'd use gladwrap with 3787, hell I've currently got some US-05 trying to climb out the fermenter, I'd be much happier leaving it for the day if I could fit a blow off tube.


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## Yob (21/1/14)

by way of explanation, if you aren't sure what the blow off tube is or does, sometimes the yeast go a bit mental, as Donske says, you need to find a way to let them do what they are going to do anyway, below is an image of how I set mine up in those instances. I find the addition of a cut off funnel through the airlock hols is a great was of increasing the collection area and maintaining a good seal through the grommet.





:icon_cheers:


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## Mardoo (21/1/14)

Now that funnel is just a lovely bit of thinkin'!


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## Back Yard Brewer (27/1/14)

Yob said:


> Uncool to use gelatine and not disclose its been in there in contact with the beer, a vegan wont have a bar of it


Lucky that I don't know any beer drinking Vegans then :beerdrink:


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## Yob (27/1/14)

OP's sister is what I was referring to in response to HardEight's suggestions... which are valid, my only point really is that if you use Gelatine, you need to tell vegans about it and not just serve it to them, would they know? Unlikely but that isnt the point, it's respecting their life choices and being honest about your process...

:icon_cheers:


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## Black Devil Dog (27/1/14)

Does anyone know if gelatin or isinglass finings are used in any commercial beers and also, how would a consumer know if they were?


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## Scooby Tha Newbie (27/1/14)

Parks said:


> Back to the OP:
> 
> Ferment for 2 weeks
> Chill for 1 week
> ...


I don't get it. Only reason you get a infection is unclean equipment. To say a procedure is invalid because of a chance of infection is at best a side step away from " Best Practice" .We are dealing with a food stuff HYGIENE is the only golden rule. 

As to giving a vegan Gelatine forget it. They may not know or even find out,but you will. Its a respect thing. 

Flame suit on.


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## manticle (27/1/14)

Black Devil Dog said:



> Does anyone know if gelatin or isinglass finings are used in any commercial beers and also, how would a consumer know if they were?


Beers like Sam Smith's specify that they are gelatine free. Most vegans will avoid wine or beer unless they know for sure that it is animal product free.


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## Black Devil Dog (27/1/14)

In my experience, there is no way that 1 or 2 weeks of cold conditioning clears the beer up like finings do.

Sure, it clears the beer up more than doing nothing, but compared to the job finings does, it falls way short. There many low flocculating yeasts that take an eternity to fall out of suspension and even with cold conditioning you would still need at least a month.

If you want really clear beer, without having to wait weeks and you have vegan friends, (_bless their little tortured souls)_​, you might need to invest in a filter.


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## Scooby Tha Newbie (27/1/14)

Black Devil Dog said:


> In my experience, there is no way that 1 or 2 weeks of cold conditioning clears the beer up like finings do.
> 
> Sure, it clears the beer up more than doing nothing, but compared to the job finings does, it falls way short. There many low flocculating yeasts that take an eternity to fall out of suspension and even with cold conditioning you would still need at least a month.
> 
> If you want really clear beer, without having to wait weeks and you have vegan friends, (_bless their little tortured souls)_​, you might need to invest in a filter.



+1 or if it's acceptable drink it all natural no harm no foul. Cloudy isn't a crime it's a state of mind. Guaranteed 150 Years ago they couldn't filter to the same degree we do now.


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## Lorenzo99 (27/1/14)

Hi There i am also new to the home brew scene. I just started my first brew on the 23rd jan i used brewmakers draught with a 1kg brew booster.(600g dextrose, 200g light malt, and 200g corn syrup) supposed to be a carlton draught copy i used the yeast that came with the kit. so are fining's are best used in cold wort? or at fermenting temps? 

p.s Sorry to crash the thread not sure if it is ok or i am supposed to start a new thread? I am new to computers as well haha


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## itguy1953 (27/1/14)

Lorenzo99 said:


> Hi There i am also new to the home brew scene. I just started my first brew on the 23rd jan i used brewmakers draught with a 1kg brew booster.(600g dextrose, 200g light malt, and 200g corn syrup) supposed to be a carlton draught copy i used the yeast that came with the kit. so are fining's are best used in cold wort? or at fermenting temps?
> 
> p.s Sorry to crash the thread not sure if it is ok or i am supposed to start a new thread? I am new to computers as well haha


Chill fermented beer to min 5degc first. A lot of yeast will then drop out by itself. Finings will help a lot more drop out. Leave a few days and bottle.


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