# Experience with M44 US West Coast Yeast



## BKBrews (10/11/16)

Anyone have much experience with this yeast?

I'm planning a Pirate Life Pale Ale Clone on Saturday but I've just realised that Beersmith has a significantly lower attenuation rate for this yeast than what the manufacturer states. With the attenuation said to be between 77 - 85% by the manufacturer, I'm now way overshooting my planned ABV (5.4%).

What attenuation do people normally get with this yeast? Should I just mash high to try and balance it out?

If I update the yeast data and set the mash at 69 degrees, beersmith says I will reach the 5.4% ABV (1.053 SG as per PL website and 1.012 estimates FG).


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## indica86 (10/11/16)

Attenuation is fine but there can be so lag. I don't really like it for that reason.
The New World Strong is my favourite for hoppy beers from MJ.


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## BKBrews (10/11/16)

indica86 said:


> Attenuation is fine but there can be so lag. I don't really like it for that reason.
> The New World Strong is my favourite for hoppy beers from MJ.


I'm definitely using M44 for this brew - already purchased and ready to go. 

I guess my question is, does it attenuate like they say? If I mashed at 66 can I fully expect 83% attenuation?

Anyone foresee any issues mashing at 69 or do you need to know my grain bill to determine that?


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## TheWiggman (10/11/16)

Treat M44 like you would US-05 and expect similar attenuation. At 66°C with a simple pale malt bill I'd expect about 80% attenuation, probably a bit more.


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## damoninja (10/11/16)

The only time I used it was for an imperial IPA, it attenuated to about 80-81% from memory around about US-05ish.


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## BKBrews (10/11/16)

Ok, thanks guys. So I guess that answers part of my question.

Next question: foresee any issues mashing at 69 degrees? Beersmith says that will settle attenuation to about 76% which will be an SG of 1.053 down to 1.012, with an ABV of 5.4% (both ABV and SG will match the stats provided on the Pirate life website).


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/11/16)

Really liked NW SA from MJ.

There is another thread floating around in the yeast subforum.


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## damoninja (10/11/16)

I would change the attenuation of the yeast max/min% in beersmith to match the manufacturer
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/72539_V3_MJ_CS_Yeast_Bk_WEB.pdf?5432139801183846214

Re OG / FG and so on hard to be real sure without the grain bill


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## kaiserben (10/11/16)

I think there's a thread already about this yeast. I remember posting in it recently. 

I've never been surprised by any significant over or under attenuation using this yeast. The last one I did was 1.060 down to 1.014. 

I think you're too hung up on preconceived and/or predicting numbers here. Stop over-thinking it. I'd mash at your original 66C (personally I'd mash at 65C, but hey! it's your brew). I suspect mashing at 69C won't give you the type of beer you're after.


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## BKBrews (10/11/16)

damoninja said:


> I would change the attenuation of the yeast max/min% in beersmith to match the manufacturer
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0195/8620/files/72539_V3_MJ_CS_Yeast_Bk_WEB.pdf?5432139801183846214
> 
> Re OG / FG and so on hard to be real sure without the grain bill


Yes, I've changed the yeast details in Beersmith to match the MJ packet. 

At the expected attenuation of 83% @ 66 degree mash, I'm now looking at a 5.9% ABV beer, well above what I really want.


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## BKBrews (10/11/16)

kaiserben said:


> I think there's a thread already about this yeast. I remember posting in it recently.
> 
> I've never been surprised by any significant over or under attenuation using this yeast. The last one I did was 1.060 down to 1.014.
> 
> I think you're too hung up on preconceived and/or predicting numbers here. Stop over-thinking it. I'd mash at your original 66C (personally I'd mash at 65C, but hey! it's your brew). I suspect mashing at 69C won't give you the type of beer you're after.


I thought there was too, but I did a search and nothing came up.

I'm not too hung up on the numbers, I have just been planning some 4.5 - 5.5% ABV beers for Christmas with the family. My dad isn't too keen on anything above 5%, so if it was to blow out to nearly 6% that's a fair way off what I wanted. 

Any particular reason you don't think a 69 degree mash would be fine?


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## Benn (10/11/16)

I could be mistaken but I think it was Bribie or Qld Kev that posted a reference list of the MJ Yeasts and their actual manufacturer/original strain i.e MJ Yeast is re-badged Danstar etc. or something to that effect.


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## goatchop41 (10/11/16)

BKBrews said:


> Yes, I've changed the yeast details in Beersmith to match the MJ packet.
> 
> At the expected attenuation of 83% @ 66 degree mash, I'm now looking at a 5.9% ABV beer, well above what I really want.


Just decrease your base malt a bit accommodate? Not sure why you're worried about the attenuation of the yeast when it is such an easy fix.....


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## BKBrews (10/11/16)

goatchop41 said:


> Just decrease your base malt a bit accommodate? Not sure why you're worried about the attenuation of the yeast when it is such an easy fix.....


I ordered from a store and had the entire recipe milled and mixed into one bag.... otherwise yes, I'd obviously do that. 

Plus, I'm anal and OCD, so I wanted the same SG as what the actual brewery gets. My fix for next time will be a less attenuating yeast.


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## kaiserben (11/11/16)

BKBrews said:


> Any particular reason you don't think a 69 degree mash would be fine?


Well it's getting up there in terms of temp to give it a thicker mouthfeel and sweeter finish than you'd want for this style (American Pale Ale). Of course, you don't need to follow style guidelines, but if you want to clone the beer then upping the mash temp so high will see it become something different. From memory of tasting the original Pirate Life Pale Ale, I would've guessed 65-66C would get the sort of dry-ish finish of this beer. 

IMO the best solution to lower the ABV is to just increase the volume of water you use on brew day. Such a simple solution, with the added bonus of getting more beer!


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## kaiserben (11/11/16)

And look, overnight I bottled another batch that used M44 and the attenuation was a meagre 70% apparent attenuation, but looking at a couple of previous batches at random, it looks like I'm usually getting 76-77% apparent attenuation. (all had the main mash temp at 65C for 60 mins).


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## BKBrews (11/11/16)

> Well it's getting up there in terms of temp to give it a thicker mouthfeel and sweeter finish than you'd want for this style (American Pale Ale). Of course, you don't need to follow style guidelines, but if you want to clone the beer then upping the mash temp so high will see it become something different. From memory of tasting the original Pirate Life Pale Ale, I would've guessed 65-66C would get the sort of dry-ish finish of this beer.
> 
> IMO the best solution to lower the ABV is to just increase the volume of water you use on brew day. Such a simple solution, with the added bonus of getting more beer!


Probably would do that, but the grainfather is such that there isn't much room to move volume wise....

Might try and make it 24L but I think it will be pushing it.

EDIT: Just looked into a few different strains and it looks like I should probably use White Labs California Ale V WLP051 for the next brew. Mashed at 65 degrees it's predicted to hit the 5.4% ABV I'm looking for. Who knows - it might actually be what they use at the brewery - I know they use whitelabs.


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## BKBrews (11/11/16)

> And look, overnight I bottled another batch that used M44 and the attenuation was a meagre 70% apparent attenuation, but looking at a couple of previous batches at random, it looks like I'm usually getting 76-77% apparent attenuation. (all had the main mash temp at 65C for 60 mins).


76 - 77% would be perfect. I'll just stick to my 66 degrees for this brew and see what happens.

Thanks mate.


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## kaiserben (11/11/16)

With the Grainfather (which I use also) there is no issue with having a pre-boil volume of 29.5L (which I regularly do when ever I'm brewing as recipe that calls for a 90 minute boil). A pre-boil volume of 29.5L is likely way more than you'd need to make these adjustments. 

You also have the option of topping up during the boil, or topping up into the fermenter. You've got heaps of options. 

But remember that my real world experience with this yeast sees me regularly getting 77% attenuation. 

EDIT: Oh good. Just saw your latest post. Disregard the above about volume changes. (but still keep it in mind for future issues).


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## BKBrews (11/11/16)

Will let you know in 2 weeks what we finish up at - should be interesting.

The more I think about it, the more I reckon the WLP051 is probably what they use though. They recently had White from White Labs out there to do a collab brew, so I'm certain they use those products.

Anyway, definitely thinking too much in to it trying to replicate my favourite beer. At the end of the day, I'll make beer regardless!


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## Doctormcbrewdle (27/12/17)

Yea, thanks for letting us know..


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