# Lager Temperature Confusion



## Milky11111 (2/3/11)

G'day.

I'm a novice brewer and I'm having some difficulty understanding how I should be brewing my first Lager, up to this point all I have been brewing is Ales.

I'm trying to brew something similar in taste to a "Toohey's New" Lager, these are the ingredients I used:
1.7kg (3.74lbs) of Coopers Heritage Lager Concentrate
1kg (2.2lbs) of Brewers Blend #11 (Contains 1/4 malt, 3/4 brewing sugars)
Pride of Ringwood Hops (Infusion Method)
22L (5.81 gallons) of Water
7g of Coopers Heritage Lager Yeast (Pitched at 30*C/86*F)
 Anyway my issue is the amount of conflicting advice I've been given about the brew. The concentrate instructions and some sites are saying just to just let it ferment at around 24*C/75*F.

Another set of advice is to pitch around 30*C/86*F then as soon as fermentation starts brew at as low as 12*C/53*F until bottling.

The recipe itself says to brew between 14*C/57*F - 16*C/64*F, however I thought pitching it at this temperature would be too low?

My main concern with the cold brewing is that I will hibernate the yeast as it's packet says it only works between 12*C/53*F and 40*C/104*F, I do have a second fridge that I can set to around that temperature though if that is the way to go. Hoping someone can give me good advice to clear all this confusion up for which is the best way to work. Currently the brew is about 24hrs along it's at the fermenting stage at 1031SG (OG was 1039SG) and temperature at 24*C/75*F.

Thanks for your time.


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## roverfj1200 (2/3/11)

Hi mate..

It all depends on the yeast. A lot of lagers are sold with ale yeast and one I know with a combo yeast.

A ture lager yeast needs to be pitched and fermented at low temps under about 15 deg and as low as 8 or 9,

If the instruction say between the temps you say then that could be a combo but sound like a ale yeast.. So under 22 deg and better at 18 deg. 

Pitching a yeast at 30 deg is IMO to high you need to be closer to ferment temp. Ales I pitch at about 20deg and Lagers as low as 12deg..


So if you can get some temp control and use a better yeast. Read the instructions for the yeast and stay with in the temps out lined..


Hope that helps..


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## waggastew (2/3/11)

The Heritage Lager yeast is a combo of Ale and Lager strains. With both of them you don't want to be pitching at anywhere above 18-20degC. 

The Coopers website suggests pitching the yeast combo at 20degC and then dropping it down to 13degC over a day. I assume this gives the yeast some time to build up in numbers before things cool off. Most pure lagers are fermented using a yeast starter, a large volume of actively growing yeast. They are also kept at cool temps 8-12degC and 'lagered' after the primary fermentation at 1-2degC for at least four weeks. This is alot of hassle for a newish brewer so my advice would be to:

1. Use the kit yeast and try and follow their instructions (pitch at 20degC, ferment at 13degC)

OR

2. Go to your HB shop and buy some US05 dry yeast and ferment at 18degC. This will make a good fake lager even though it is an ale yeast.


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## Milky11111 (2/3/11)

Good stuff, great help. When I get home I'll steadily drop it to around 14-18*C and fridge it until bottling then.

The next batch of brew I have already bought, it's an attempt to clone James Squire and is a Saaz Concentrate & Yeast with a Light Malt blend as well as some hops but the hops name escapes me ATM, the concentrate is actually a Pilsner. I've heard Pilsner are brewed in the cold like Lagers, is this true? If so I'll pitch just as you have described above.


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## stux (2/3/11)

It might be a Tin Of Lager, but I suspect it has the standard Cooper Dry Yeast, which is NOT a lager yeast

If you want to make this a proper lager go to your LHBS and buy a sachet (or two) of Saflager S23 

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/EN/Saflager_S-23_HB.pdf

Rehydrate that in 250ml of 23C (+-3) water for 30-60 mins until it forms a marshmellow on top of the water

swirl and pitch that into your wort which should be about 12-15C.

Leave at 12C for about 3 weeks until the gravity stops dropping and the bubbles finish

Then drop the temperature to 2C or so for another 2 weeks to lager

Bottle/keg.


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## stux (2/3/11)

Milky11111 said:


> Good stuff, great help. When I get home I'll steadily drop it to around 14-18*C and fridge it until bottling then.
> 
> The next batch of brew I have already bought, it's an attempt to clone James Squire and is a Saaz Concentrate & Yeast with a Light Malt blend as well as some hops but the hops name escapes me ATM, the concentrate is actually a Pilsner. I've heard Pilsner are brewed in the cold like Lagers, is this true? If so I'll pitch just as you have described above.



Pilsners are lagers


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## Milky11111 (2/3/11)

Ok great, thanks for all replies, helped me out alot.
:icon_cheers:


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## DUANNE (2/3/11)

if you want to make a good lager then go to the lhbs and buy a good lager yeast. 34/70 or s 189 would be my pick, i personally dont like s 23 as i find it to fruity. make sure to pitch the yeast cold it will ferment well at 12 degrees and rehydrate 2 packets of yeast for a good result. why they sell kits with a pissy little 7g pack of yeast is beyond me considering it is a massive under pitch. the other option for a reasonable faux lager is one pack of us 05 and ferment at around 16-17 degrees. happy brewing and good luck.

dwayne


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## RobboMC (3/3/11)

I've brewed the yeast provided with the Coopers Pilsener kit and also the old Coopers heritage lager kit down to 14 deg C with great success. The kit instructions declare that this can be done, not sure about the heritage kit. The one time I brewed it I used s23.
But beware, *brewing at these temps is much much slower* and the risks of incomplete brews are far greater.
And incomplete brews = exploding bottles. This is why the standard newbie instructions from the kit makers say 20 deg C plus.

This brew was brewed for 5 weeks ( 3 weeks in secondary fermenter ) to get down to a final gravity.

So if you brew at low temps use a hydrometer without fail and NEVER bottle if the FG isn't what you expected, i.e.
around 1/3 of OG, i.e. if brew started at 1045 then should finish below 1015, i.e. 15 is 1/3 of 45.

Good luck, enjoy your brewing and always remember your hydrometer is your best friend.


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## Bribie G (3/3/11)

Until you have been round the block a few times and confident in what you are doing, it's probably best to stick to as close to 18 degrees as possible, with all your yeasts. Even with a lager yeast you shouldn't get any off flavours, if anything perhaps a bit more "fruity" than a commercial lager. In my early days I made some very drinkable kit and extract lagers at those temperatures, using yeasts such as S-23 (as suggested) and also the kit lager yeasts.

If you can get it from your LHBS, Morgans lager yeast is actually a true lager yeast that can take a big range of temperatures without chucking off flavours.


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