# Warm Conditioning In Kegs



## MattC (6/6/09)

Hey all,

I have a kegerator which at present can fit 6 kegs in it. I only have 4, but am planning on getting more soon. I have been a little impatient with my beers in the past by not giving them the time they deserve to mature and drinking them early. 

My question is can i keg a beer and allow it to sit outside of the kegerator in order to mature from the green stage? If so should it be carbed or should I only purge the headspace with CO2? The reason for this is because i dont want to waste the space in the kegerator with beer that im not drinking?


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## mr_tyreman (6/6/09)

im fairly new to all this...but i leave my keg at fermenting temps for as long as possible next to my fridge til im ready to drink it...just purge the headspace with co2.....then when im ready i fridge it and carb the next day....


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## MattC (6/6/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> im fairly new to all this...but i leave my keg at fermenting temps for as long as possible next to my fridge til im ready to drink it...just purge the headspace with co2.....then when im ready i fridge it and carb the next day....



Hey Tyreman,

How long do you leave them there for prior to chilling, carbing and drinking?


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## Muggus (6/6/09)

MattC said:


> Hey Tyreman,
> 
> How long do you leave them there for prior to chilling, carbing and drinking?


Technically you can leave them as long as bottled beer in the keg. So long as you've left a bit of CO2 in it after bottling and purged any oxygen, it should last at warm conditioning temperatures indefinately. 

Infact, you can actually carb your kegs up this way by means of natural carbonation...ie adding sugar...as you would bottles. But that's a whole different can of worms.

The idea here is to keep you keg in a reasonably cool environment, out of direct sunlight, with as little oxygen in the keg as possible. From there, you should be right!


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## parrja (6/6/09)

I'm new to kegging also. It was so easy with bottling - Store in pantry at about 20 degrees and taste one a week until it had matured enough to get stuck in.

Have only done 5 brews since starting kegging.

I mature the kegs the same way as a bottle. i.e. flush headspace with C02 and then wack in pantry to age for as long as possible (say 4 to 12 weeks).

I've only done ales so far and this seems to work OK. I also noticed that once keg is in fridge (at about 6 deg) it still continues to mature but possibly in a different way and more slowly.

About to do some lagers so tossing up whether to put the kegs in the fridge to age(/lager) or not. Hopefully some more experienced keggers can shed some light on this.


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## Muggus (6/6/09)

Jason P said:


> About to do some lagers so tossing up whether to put the kegs in the fridge to age(/lager) or not. Hopefully some more experienced keggers can shed some light on this.


I'd personally leave the lager kegs in the fridge in the fridge, if you have space.
Mainly due to the fact they benefit from cold conditioning to clear them up to begin with. Not to mention can ferment at such temperatures, and settle so much better. You really can't go wrong.


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## QldKev (7/6/09)

Either way will work.

Out of the fridge
- you are still at the temp that you are suspectable to infections.
- you allow the beer to 100% fully ferment out 
- you can add sugar to carb it up
- if you only fill the head space with gas then this will be absorbed into the beer

In the fridge
- less risk of getting an infection at this stage, due to the temp being too low for yeast
- beer will still clear
- you can gas up the beer at normal serving pressure over a week
- you actually use less power having a fuller fridge than an empty one (every time you open the door less cold air escapes)

Myself, I would add it to the fridge if I had the space.

QldKev


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## Carboy (7/6/09)

Hi everyone,

My LHBS owner (_the good one_) advised me that if I wanted to cellar some kegs that I should force-carb them first, and then store them in the coldest room/cupboard I have available.

That said, I am learning that what works for one person, may not work for you/me... Self confidence in what you are doing makes a big difference. 

That's my 2 worth.

Cheers
Carboy :icon_cheers:


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## parrja (7/6/09)

Hopefully not hijacking this thread too much. I think the original question has mostly been answered. The only outstanding issue is aging. A few of my beers have been good and have been drinkable out of the fermenter, however most are better with aging. So if I normally need to age for 6 weeks warm (18 to 20), will I need to extend this period if aging in the fridge (6 deg). I guess this question is more relevant for ales.


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## The Big Burper (7/6/09)

Read all about it.

Thanks to Coopers Brewery for the information.


*Kegging beer *
There are a couple of options open to you when it comes to kegging. If you are in a hurry for the beer (a party on the weekend) and it will be consumed within a couple of months, then artificial carbonation is the best option. Natural conditioning will give you a better beer in our opinion but the conditioning period is much longer (several weeks as opposed to several days). Well made, naturally conditioned beer will last as long in the keg as it does in bottles (at least two years or so). 
Artificially carbonated beer will deteriorate after a few months.

*Natural Conditioning* 


Clean and sanitise the keg thoroughly.
Prime with sugar at the rate of 4g per litre.
Rack via a piece of sanitised, flexible tubing so that the beer runs to the bottom of the keg. Leave 5 10 cm of headspace at the top.
Seal the keg then invert and give it a shake to mix the sugar and check that the seal is good.
Store at 18C or above for a week, then allow the beer to condition for at least two weeks.
Refrigerate for a day or two, momentarily release the keg pressure, then connect the gas at required pouring pressure 35 100 kPa, depending on your system. (Fifty litre kegs through a temprite or miracle box may require up to 300 kPa).
*Artificial Conditioning* 


Clean, sanitise, purge (purge by connecting the CO2 bottle to force the air out of the keg) and rack as per the natural conditioning procedure, without the priming sugar.
If you are in a hurry for the beer, seal the keg, pressurise to 300 kPa and shake it about 100 times (for an 18 20 litre keg) with the gas connected. If there is no rush or youre not feeling energetic, leave the gas connected with the regulator set at 300 kPa for 2 3 days. CO2 will be absorbed more quickly if the beer is refrigerated.
Place in the fridge for several days then adjust to pouring pressure. The beer will be drinkable as soon as it is cold, but will improve for several weeks in the fridge. 

For crystal clear beer, rack into a sanitised, airtight, food grade container (flush with CO2 first) and refrigerate for a week. Once the beer is clear, keg and carbonate artificially.
 B)

Note that the priming sugar is a lot less than for bottled beer!
Note that you can leave the gas at pouring pressure (90kPa). It will take a week to carbonate.


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## Darren (7/6/09)

Nothing wrong with warm conditioning ales. Actually, that how it is supposed to be done. Keeping them cool in summer is a good idea.

Lagers come-of-age better with extended cool conditioning.

cheers

Darren


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## chadjaja (7/6/09)

One week isn't nearly enough to carbonate at pouring pressure i've found.

And it makes sense to me to carb up a beer that you want to age a little. The cold needed to carb it up quicker would help clear it a little and the temp change wont be too drastic with it heating up. That and the environment of c02 would be pretty hostile to a lot of nasties. As well as it being ready to drink as soon as its cold when you do actually put the keg back in.


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## The Big Burper (8/6/09)

chadjaja said:


> One week isn't nearly enough to carbonate at pouring pressure i've found.




cj.,

Of course this depends on temperature and pressure, but I found 6 days ample time,
with a pressure of 97KPa (my pouring pressure) and temp around 6 degrees.

cheers
Dave


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## KGB (8/6/09)

I think its debatable whether a force carbed beer ages/matures at all, like that info from coopers said. If naturally carb'ing then age as you would in bottles, warm for ales, lager your lagers. If force carb'ing just gas and drink.


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## Uncle Fester (9/2/10)

KGB said:


> I think its debatable whether a force carbed beer ages/matures at all, like that info from coopers said. If naturally carb'ing then age as you would in bottles, warm for ales, lager your lagers. If force carb'ing just gas and drink.




Having been kegging and force carbing AG beers for the last few years, I would like to ask the following.... Does a kegged beer (lets say a pale ale for example) age in a keg the same way it does in a bottle..... 

The only reason I ask this is that I recently opened a bottle of pale ale that was left over when I kegged. From memory, the force carbed keg was nice to drink, but nothing special. The naturally carbed version was outstanding (about 3 months in the bottle).

This has led me to think that I may be ripping myself off a little by being impatient and force carbing every beer. I understand a Wiezen is best drunk young, so I intend to continue to force carb them. I do have a spare keg, so to have it sitting next to the fridge waiting it's turn to go in for a few weeks while the beer naturally carbed up would not be an issue at all.

I didnt think I should open a new thread, so I have tacked my question onto this old thread (see, I CAN use the search function :icon_cheers: )

Any takers?


Fester


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## Carboy (9/2/10)

Hi Fester,

Not sure if I'm answering your question, but here my experiences.

I've been kegging for a little over 9 months now. I started with force carbing but I found myself very disappointed with the results. I did a little research and after some advice from the more experience I gave pouring pressure carbonation a go. Straight away I found my beers were tasting and pouring better.

I know the wait can be a pain in the "A" but in my opinion its well worth the wait. My rule of thumb for pouring pressure carbonation is 80-90 kpa for 5-7 days.

I now have a cold conditioning fridge in the garage that holds three kegs with gas connected, I place my kegs in there and leave them until required inside. I also warm condition my other kegs until they will fit into the garage fridge. My rule of thumb for these kegs is to pump them up to 200kpa and store in a cool place (never move them) then every 48 hours I give them another belt of CO2 to keep them around the 200kpa mark because they are warm they suck in the CO2 pretty quickly, but once they move to the cold conditioning fridge and then into the Kegerator the beer tastes great.... I'm rotating 11 kegs at the momment :icon_cheers: 

As you know everyone has their own way of doing things, so you're best to keep on testing until you find what works best for you.

There's my 2 worth Buddy, have fun  

Cheers
Carboy :icon_cheers:


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## under (9/2/10)

I've just been doing the 48hr carb up. Approx 260kpa (~37PSI) for 48hrs. 

-Rack to keg
-Burp headspace
-Cool to 5-6 degrees
-Turn reg to 260kpa
-Leave for 48hrs
-Drink


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## Aus_Rider_22 (9/2/10)

Uncle Fester said:


> The only reason I ask this is that I recently opened a bottle of pale ale that was left over when I kegged. From memory, the force carbed keg was nice to drink, but nothing special. The naturally carbed version was outstanding (about 3 months in the bottle).
> 
> This has led me to think that I may be ripping myself off a little by being impatient and force carbing every beer. I understand a Wiezen is best drunk young, so I intend to continue to force carb them. I do have a spare keg, so to have it sitting next to the fridge waiting it's turn to go in for a few weeks while the beer naturally carbed up would not be an issue at all.
> 
> ...



I haven't been kegging as long as you but I definetly have found that beer has tasted a good bit better after being aged in bottles vs drinking from the keg a couple weeks into maturation. The thing that I find interesting that there is very little talk of maturing in kegs. Plenty of bottle-related storing and maturing but very little about maturing beer in kegs. It must be either everyone is racking into secondary cubes or people drink beer form kegs a fair bit green. I can understand people wanting to keep kegs rotating and getting through them quickly but there is so much talk about making better beers and improving beers and I assume many must be drinking green beer?? Am I underestimating the amount of brewers who rack into cubes and transfer into kegs? :unsure:


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## claymen (9/2/10)

Personally my kegs in the fridge at the moment got a good couple of months warm conditioned. I don't go through beer that fast. I have 4 kegs and keep two in the fridge for serving.

I assumed the same sort of age time applied for keg as did bottle. E.g. a 3month beer will taste better than a 2 day old beer (direct from fermenter). And I've not had any infection problems or concerns conditioning in the keg as I charge the keg up to 200-250kpa before storing to ensure it has a nice CO2 barrier.


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## Uncle Fester (9/2/10)

Thanks for the ideas. Im guessing that my kegs will get between 3 and 6 weeks to "mature" before a space becomes available in the fridge.

I will give this a go for a while and report back.

Fester Out.


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## Pete2501 (10/2/10)

Carboy said:


> I've been kegging for a little over 9 months now. I started with force carbing but I found myself very disappointed with the results. I did a little research and after some advice from the more experience I gave pouring pressure carbonation a go. Straight away I found my beers were tasting and pouring better.



What aspects of taste does the force carbing or non force carbing effect? Bubble size is one that springs to mind, carbonic acid, aroma, mouth feel, malt taste? 

I'm curious because I've got a carbing stone which does the job in 2 days but since getting a keg freezer I could wait a while after getting more kegs of course. I only have two atm hence the carbing stone.


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## barls (10/2/10)

mine get warm conditioned sometimes up to a year. Mainly cause i have 10 or so kegs. I also naturally carb my kegs


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