# The WEAL railroad



## Zorco (22/7/16)

When a thread goes off topic because WEAL decks 3 or more people with his capitalist speak, slide it on into here....


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## Zorco (22/7/16)

All aboard the first train.... [emoji13]


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## goomboogo (22/7/16)

Is this the thread for arguments that look like an arse? They look good from a distance but upon closer inspection, you realise there's a big hole in it and it's full of crap.


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## Maheel (22/7/16)

i love capitalism and am fully on board toot tooot 

it brings all the benefits we have here living in Oz -> mostly free schools, health, and all the services safely provided like roads and infrastructure (yes we "pay" for it)


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/16)

I doubt WEAL could live off a train drivers wage...


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## wide eyed and legless (22/7/16)

Oooooh I like trains especially the clockwork ones with a big key.


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## Zorco (22/7/16)

goomboogo said:


> Is this the thread for arguments that look like an arse? They look good from a distance but upon closer inspection, you realise there's a big hole in it and it's full of crap.


Considered, educated debate. 






And plenty of the former


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## MastersBrewery (22/7/16)

Much like the light at the end of the tunnel, here we'll find yet another 600 ton of steel hurtling towards us, and thats just the locco. Having said that driving a train is bloody good fun!


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## Dave70 (22/7/16)

So do we post in this thread or do we OCCUPY?


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## Zorco (22/7/16)

Step 1: capitalist speak overruns a thread

Step 2: someone politely reminds WEAL(et.al.) to bring it over here and catch an existing train or board a new one.


Say another thread on chickens starts and gets to impacts of unions, now there is a place to slide into. 

This thread was a tongue in cheek point about AHB letting a couple of other threads disintegrate from the OP. And is an attempt to show respect/admiration to WEAL, Ducatiboy stu, and the passionate, intelligent cohort here.

All in good fun


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> So do we post in this thread or do we OCCUPY?


No..we rent it


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Say another thread on chickens starts and gets to impacts of unions, now there is a place to slide into.


Mmm....Chicken....roasted using union labour


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## Dave70 (22/7/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No..we rent it


And line the pockets of greedy baby boomers? Not a chance..


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> And line the pockets of greedy baby boomers? Not a chance..


Accept it. Thats just how it works


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## Zorco (11/11/16)

Haven't seen any locos on these tracks of late.

Gangman holding management to ransom?


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/11/16)

WEAL is still having a sook that Big Tones isnt in the job...

But he should be happy now that Trump is president elect


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## Zorco (11/11/16)

First to reply. I see you're missing your friend


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## Zorco (11/11/16)

I wonder if WEAL could stitch together an argument about Trump's impending success.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/11/16)

Zorco said:


> I wonder if WEAL could stitch together an argument about Trump's impending success.


Of course he can...silly question to ask


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## Zorco (11/11/16)

I miss WEAL


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## Barge (12/11/16)

Zorco said:


> I miss WEAL


You need to work on your aim


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/11/16)

Its not like his ego is small


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## Bridges (8/12/16)

Check out the CUB thread folks, somehow WEAL has turned a thread on the sacking and eventual rehiring of 55 workers by a crappy mega company with no regard for humans into a dig at Metro train drivers. It is possibly some of his finest work to date.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/12/16)

Bridges said:


> Check out the CUB thread folks, somehow WEAL has turned a thread on the sacking and eventual rehiring of 55 workers by a crappy mega company with no regard for humans into a dig at Metro train drivers. It is possibly some of his finest work to date.


Yeah, I am pretty sure he was the first to congratulate them


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## Zorco (8/12/16)

That's not WEAL's finest. The best is yet to come.


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## Bridges (8/12/16)

I did say to date, I'm sure he can do better!


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## wide eyed and legless (8/12/16)

We can always get a discussion about Australia Post and the RSI payouts which is costing tax payers a fortune, we've done the train drivers to death.


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## Zorco (8/12/16)

The WEAL mailroad it is then..


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/12/16)

Zorco said:


> That's not WEAL's finest.


We never said it was


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## Dave70 (9/12/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> We can always get a discussion about Australia Post and the RSI payouts which is costing tax payers a fortune, we've done the train drivers to death.


I imagine you could replace cafe latte with RSI in many of those cases and the modus operandi would be pretty much the same as this. Np win, no fee, hey, what have you got to loose?..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jErUOcBhkQ


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/12/16)

I am going to buy a coal mine and put the kids to work. There both over 10 ( sort of ) so they should turn a profit


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## Dave70 (9/12/16)

Make sure its coaking coal. Prices are skyrocketing.


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## Zorco (7/1/17)

Hahahahaha


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## Zorco (7/1/17)

There is only 2 videos in the chocolate category! 

WEAL, this railroad has been wrongly diverted!


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## Zorco (7/1/17)

Help help,,,, too much vodka!


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## DU99 (8/1/17)

Pollies perks after retiring we don't there pension's getting a review.


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## Lemon (8/1/17)

I like the pollies retirement perks arguments.

As I understand it, historically, the old men, almost exclusively, who dedicated a large part of their earning years to the service of the state, when finished their service were unable to work, or not suitable for employment and so needed some carrot to enter public service.

Now, I would suggest, that this is far from the case. Retiring pollies are the most employable, if only for their ability to access and lobby current pollies and inside trade for large companies on their government knowledge.
So, this would suggest, to me at least, that we should eliminate retirement benefits for pollies entirely, not just reduce them to reasonable community levels.


Fuse lit.

Lemon


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## wide eyed and legless (8/1/17)

They have to play by the rules, it isn't them they are trying to claw back any over payments from, it's all the others.


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## Lemon (8/1/17)

Yeah. I don't have a problem with the overlap of the overpayment collection process at the edges. It is reasonable to expect that if you are targeting overpayment across the whole spectrum, you will impact some at the edges. I see this as statistical analysis, if you only wat to play safe in the middle of the distribution, you will miss a lot of territory. If you widen your target you will invariably see an increased error margin.
I'd suggest that Centrelink are using a confidence interval of 95% or greater.

Lemon


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## wide eyed and legless (8/1/17)

The government often talk tough about welfare payments but nothing ever seems to come of it, will be interesting to see how far these demands they are sending out will go, one thing is for certain is that the family home WILL come into the calculations of pension credibility, fair enough too when there are folks drawing a pension and living in 2 or 3 million dollar homes.


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## Lemon (8/1/17)

Eventually, yes, all assets will come into consideration. It seems to me to be inequitable to pay the same benefit to someone who has to pay 30%+ on housing out of it and to some one who, largely, does not.
However, it is political suicide to significantly interfere with benefits the largest(?) and fastest growing voting demographic believe are rightfully theirs.
So it will take a long time and perhaps some significant dissonance to spark the will and support to change it.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/1/17)

Agree but I think the 'Change is gonna come' sooner rather than later, unless we keep in surplus then these things will be filed in the too hard basket.


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## goomboogo (8/1/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Agree but I think the 'Change is gonna come' sooner rather than later, unless we keep in surplus then these things will be filed in the too hard basket.


But the surplus is irrelevant to a discussion about whether a person's residence should or shouldn't be included in an asset test for the aged pension. Politicians talking about fiscal surplus in these terms indicates they have no idea what they're talking about.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/1/17)

May seem irrelevant but both parties know that there are holes that need plugging, while there is some brighter news on the horizon then a tighter fiscal policy gets under the radar, labor wants the homes added to the means test and so will the coalition if they want to rein in the debt by cutting government spending.


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## goomboogo (8/1/17)

The government could stop issuing bonds if they are concerned about misconceptions regarding so-called government debt. That would be one way to address the issue of corporate welfare which is out of control.


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## Bridges (8/1/17)

So someone that has lived in their house since 19dickety2 is forced to sell it, then move to a crap suburb away from friends and family because the market dictated their house they paid 3000 pounds for back in the day is now worth a squillion? Political suicide. One private residence shouldn't be counted in any means test for the pension. Why is it always pensioners and welfare recipients of any sort that are the first to get the finger pointed at them when belts need tightening? Why not our pollies. Like Joe "the age of entitlement is over" Hockey. I bet he feels entitled to all the perks he's currently enjoying. The prick double dipped for years whilst telling us how we have to do our bit. Why not the Rhineharts and Packers. I ******* hate that it's always the people at the bottom that are expected to suffer for those at the top.


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## manticle (8/1/17)

Cos it's easy to pick on those with no power.

Again and again and again.


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## wide eyed and legless (9/1/17)

Bridges said:


> So someone that has lived in their house since 19dickety2 is forced to sell it, then move to a crap suburb away from friends and family because the market dictated their house they paid 3000 pounds for back in the day is now worth a squillion? Political suicide. One private residence shouldn't be counted in any means test for the pension. Why is it always pensioners and welfare recipients of any sort that are the first to get the finger pointed at them when belts need tightening? Why not our pollies. Like Joe "the age of entitlement is over" Hockey. I bet he feels entitled to all the perks he's currently enjoying. The prick double dipped for years whilst telling us how we have to do our bit. Why not the Rhineharts and Packers. I ******* hate that it's always the people at the bottom that are expected to suffer for those at the top.


Not a very socialist attitude Bridges, somebody living in a 2-3 million dollar house drawing a pension? What about the rest of the deserving recipients of welfare, it isn't a bottomless money pit, houses included in the means test will and has to come into effect, what about the pensioners who don't even own a house and are having to pay rent as Lemon mentioned above.


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## Airgead (9/1/17)

Trouble is of course, is that these days everyone lives in a million dollar house. It does you nogood at all unless you sell it but then you still have to live somewhere.

Retirement villages cost as much to buy into as a free standing house. 

Doesn't matter how much your house costs in absolute terms... It's relative value is still one house.

That's why the primary residence has historically been exempt from asset tests. The only way you can realise the value of that asset is to become homeless... 

Yes you can point to someone living in a 20 room Pt Piper mansion as an example of inequity but where do you set the threshold? At 1M? That would catch most home owners in capital cities. 5m? 10m? By the time I retire, my little weatherboard place in Hornsby may well be worth 10m.

Do you set a threshold then index it? But at what rate? Inflation? Property values have been outstripping inflation for decades. One rate for the whole country or diferent indexation for diferent cities? That gets complex and looks unfair. Why is a Sydney's idea allowed 5M when someone from Taree is only allowed 1m?

What about primary producers? Their principle residence is usually their farm which could well be worth a mint for land value. They tend to be very asset rich but cash poor. Should they not get the pension? Or have to sell the farm? But then, where would they live? 

Its a tricky topic this one...


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## wide eyed and legless (9/1/17)

By the time I retire I would think age pensions will be designated to history, so the means test will not apply, as for the government saying that home ownership does not come into the equation well it has already come into play. A home owner, can have assets of $250,000, a none home owner can have assets of $450,000. So $200,000 less if you own your own home.


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## WarmerBeer (9/1/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> ...A home owner, can have assets of $250,000, a none home owner can have assets of $450,000. So $200,000 less if you own your own home.


Yup, all those $200,000 homes out there on the market.


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## manticle (9/1/17)

Plenty down here........I mean yeah


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## Lemon (9/1/17)

The primary issue I see is that all these systems and processes are devised by politicians and bureaucrats who are so far removed and insulated from reality that they are barking up the wrong tree.

Eg. So I don't own my residence but I have $200k in investments more than someone who does? Does that ring true?

I doubt that a means test on the value of the residence is workable. More like a light switch, own a residence? Don't own one?

The only palatable way that a difference between" the haves and have nots" could be worked I would think is by the application of an additional housing allowance.
But, this is spending more money, not less.
Unless you use the bureaucrats favourite, "give with one hand and take away with the other".

I could go on and on. There is no political will to make any decision that could impact electability. In anyone in politics.

Sadly
Lemon


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## wide eyed and legless (9/1/17)

Another issue to consider is the one put forward by Smoking Joe, how on earth are we going to evaluate the property value of each pensioner, but it will be done.


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## goomboogo (9/1/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> By the time I retire I would think age pensions will be designated to history,


I am willing to wager my house that you are wrong about this. And I have no idea how long it is before you retire. The reality of how our financial system operates and the government's role in that system would hit home long before any politician could get anywhere near suggesting the abolition of the aged pension.


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## LAGERFRENZY (9/1/17)

Ease off the likes of my 94 year old mum and asset-test these fuckers then you might get to surplus bit sooner:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/retiring-federal-politicians-will-get-sixfigure-pensions-for-life-20160303-gna6c1.html

Quicker still if you make companies such as Google pay any tax at all.


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## GalBrew (10/1/17)

Yeah, so my 92 year old grandparents should sell their house they bought new nearly 50 years ago (in the middle of nowhere at the time) and move away from their entire lives and support networks to keep the pension because the value of their house shot up due to Chinese interest in a particular local high school?? Yeah, that's real fair.


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## wide eyed and legless (10/1/17)

I doubt very much it would come to having to sell the family home, Scott Morrison has said that there is a broader based asset test on the governments agenda, I think that homeowners who own a home at whatever the bench mark value will be or above would be encouraged to take out a reverse mortgage on that substantial equity, not pull up stumps and move. That way it would see a significant rise in pensions for the more needy.
The only other option would be to increase taxes to keep wealthy recipients drawing a pension, and the ones not so well off living hand to mouth, I applaud those who have done well and made a few dollars but at the end of the day we can't take it with us.


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## LAGERFRENZY (11/1/17)

Interesting article for those who don't mind a few facts getting in the way of an argument:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-arrogant-politicians-should-be-ready-for-a-pensioners-revolt/news-story/4d1511dbf579d8e58261d1fa4d328be5


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## LAGERFRENZY (11/1/17)

The above link does not appear to be working so I have typed out the article on the grossly mismanaged history of our aged pension scheme should anyone be interested. 

View attachment Arrogant Politicians.pdf


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## SBOB (11/1/17)

LAGERFRENZY said:


> The above link does not appear to be working so I have typed out the article on the grossly mismanaged history of our aged pension scheme should anyone be interested.


or just search for it via google and navigate to it via there
gets around the paywall problems


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## wide eyed and legless (12/1/17)

Yes thats what I did, Brian Hale should stick to what he does best, writing headline grabbers for the Womens Weekly.
No good bleating about the wrongdoings over the past 60 years anyone can do that with the benefit of hindsight, its how the government, present and future, are going to do to fix them.


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## Lemon (12/1/17)

This is a tale I've heard before. I've also read it refuted with as much evidence.
I ask myself, if I wanted to raise income taxes 7.5%, what spin would I use to sell it?


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## wide eyed and legless (13/1/17)

As long as you don't make a comparison to a Birthday cake. I would take the Nike initiative.


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

This place is so leftist I think this forum should be renamed Aussie Homebrew Union. ABU.

And the $25 fee should be compulsory like all Union dues.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

Viva the Union


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## manticle (26/2/17)

Yeah it's like das kapital in here. Can't move for fear of bumping into a kibbutz.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

Could have been Mein Kampf


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## eungaibitter1 (26/2/17)

Gelding said:


> This place is so leftist I think this forum should be renamed Aussie Homebrew Union. ABU.
> 
> And the $25 fee should be compulsory like all Union dues.


Willing to pay and/or swap best milking cow.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

I can get a goat....


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

manticle said:


> Yeah it's like das kapital in here. Can't move for fear of bumping into a kibbutz.



Tattoos a prerequisite ?


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## manticle (26/2/17)

Yes. No-one is allowed on this forum without a tattoo of either che or a cuban cigar.


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## eungaibitter1 (26/2/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I can get a goat....


You should be able to get full value for it too I'd imagine.


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

manticle said:


> Yes. No-one is allowed on this forum without a tattoo of either che or a cuban cigar.


che u mean Campaign for Homosexual Equality.

but I thought that all that campaigning wasn't needed anymore.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

Only for Geldings


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## manticle (26/2/17)

I meant Guevera but rainbows will do.


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

Yes I know.

Aussie Homebrew Bogans ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

OOohhhh,,,someone has a chip


Need more wax for your beard ?


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

tattoo AND beard required now ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

Only for Eunuchs..


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only for Eunuchs..


i was waiting to someone to coin the next letter...

now its LGBTQE ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

You may as well be a part

See you at Mardi Gras


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

too far. 

grafton to sydney takes 6 hrs 45 minutes with little traffic.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

...so....you scared


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> ...so....you scared


of ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

Mardis Gras


You dont have to travell to G-Town, they have one closer to you every year, so you can fell nice and safe


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## Gelding (26/2/17)

in Grafton ?

I can meet you there and we can talk yeast.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/17)

If you like

You will like G-Town


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