# Style Of The Week 5/7/06 - Apa



## Stuster (5/7/06)

This week it's off to the US for the popular American Pale Ale style, BJCP Style 10A. A style everyone has probably brewed or at least tasted, the distinctive feature of the style is the hop character. This is a suitable style for this time of year with the cool temperatures the 1056 yeast can cope with.

Rather than recipes, I feel it could be useful to discuss particular aspects of the style. What are your favourite yeasts for this style, the old faithful 001/1056/US-56, another American ale yeast, or perhaps an English ale yeast? What hop variety do you like - the old faithful Cascade, or a more recent hop such as Amarillo or Simcoe? Are you a hopburster? Do you dry hop? If so, how much?

For kit/partial brewers, which kits do you like? Do you add hops to improve this kit? Any other ways to jazz up the kit?

So, let's hear all your tips so we can all brew (even) better beer. :super: 



> 10A. American Pale Ale
> 
> Aroma: Usually moderate to strong hop aroma from dry hopping or late kettle additions of American hop varieties. A citrusy hop character is very common, but not required. Low to moderate maltiness supports the hop presentation, and may optionally show small amounts of specialty malt character (bready, toasty, biscuity). Fruity esters vary from moderate to none. No diacetyl. Dry hopping (if used) may add grassy notes, although this character should not be excessive.
> 
> ...


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## warrenlw63 (5/7/06)

Great link to open the account.  

Amarillo APA Tips

Warren -


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## Steve (5/7/06)

Ahhhhhhhhhhh - APA's now were talking!

I use Grumpys Boston Creams and ESB 3kg APA kits. I used to use the ESB Fresh Wort APA but the 3kg tins are much better in taste I feel. Always use US56. I have tried Wyeast 1056 a couple of times but couldnt really tell much difference? Regarding hops - I love my APAs to be crawling out of the glass to get away from the amount of hops. In the boil ive used combos of Cascade and Amarillo, Chinook and Cascade, straight Amarillo and straight Cascade. Straight amarillo is a lot smoother by itself, and I thought rather boring as I need the zing of cascade in my APAs. I always dry hop with combinations same as in the boil, a small handfull of cascade/amarillo, straight cascade I find is my favourite. I brew at 18 degrees, primary for a week, rack for a week, bulk prime with 140gms sugar (for 23 litres). Now I am getting into partials I wouldnt mind going the skunk fart pale ale that ive read a lot about. I always have two or three APAs on the go at once. Love em.
Cheers
Steve


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## Jye (5/7/06)

Yummers APA :super: 

This is a great style for any new brewers since it is hard to stuff up and can be a simple as pale malt, a bit of crystal and 3 hop additions for bitterness, flavour and aroma. It also allows more adventures brewers to experiment with different hopping techniques, first wort hopping (FWH), mashing hopping, hopback, randalls and I even read of a brewer heating his brew water the night before and passing it through a hopback.

I try and keep the malt bill simple with pale, munich, crystal as the base and one or two other malts depending on what I feel like trying. A single infusion mash at 65-66C for 90min seems to be the normal but I have been using a 30min protein rest at 55C followed by 60min at 65C and this seems to give me better head retention with my setup. Safale US-56 is my yeast of choice at the moment and ferment at 17C for 14 days, cold crash for a day and then into the keg.

My last few APAs have been hopburst and I love it :beerbang: This involves getting 3 different hops and mixing them together, then add the mixture at 5min intervals for the last 25 mins. This works great if you also double to amount added at 10 and 5min :lol: I have no flameout addition since I dry hop on the heavier side with about 50gms straight into the primary after the first 7 days.

Anyone that loves APA should also read the SFPA thread.

Cheers
Jye


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## Kai (5/7/06)

Only tip I have right now is don't bitter with, or overdo, the Cascade. But people seem to be moving away from that these days anyway.

APAs can make a quite good mid-strength style beer, the freshness of the hops suits the early maturing base beer and the heavy hop flavour and aroma seems to help cover the lower gravity.


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## DrewCarey82 (5/7/06)

What would you guys recommend for a partial recipe.

I am doing a JS amber ale in around a fortnight, and wouldnt mind doing this one afterwoulds it has my taste buds tingling.


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## DJR (5/7/06)

DrewCarey82 said:


> What would you guys recommend for a partial recipe.
> 
> I am doing a JS amber ale in around a fortnight, and wouldnt mind doing this one afterwoulds it has my taste buds tingling.



Try for about a 23L batch

2Kg Pale LME
2Kg Pilsner/Ale Grain
150g Crystal (if you like sweet)/Melanoidin (if you like malty)
250g Wheat Malt

Mash at 65C for a bit, mix, boil with

30g or so Cascade/Amarillo/Simcoe/other bittering hop for 60' for about 25IBU
15g Simcoe/Cascade/Centennial/Amarillo/Chinook 30' for about 10IBU/flavour
15g of above at flameout/whirlpool for aroma

Ferment with US56/WLP001

Then depending on how rough you like it, dryhop with 15-30g of something in secondary. Should end up at about 5%/1050 OG.

Hops is all about preference, really you can use anything in an APA, just the cascade-style US hops are the authentic ones to put in, up to you to experiment and find out what you like. I personally like Simcoe but Amarillo and Cascade are pretty good too, if a little common nowadays


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## Stuster (5/7/06)

Jye said:


> This is a great style for any new brewers since it is hard to stuff up and can be a simple as pale malt, a bit of crystal and 3 hop additions for bitterness, flavour and aroma.



Agreed. This was my first AG attempt. It came out very well, maybe partly due to a 6 week secondary while I was out of the country. :blink: (Do I hold the record for the longest wait between making and tasting my first AG?  )

I made a hopburst APA recently, all Chinook, but it didn't come out well at all. (I am a fan of Chinook, but it clearly doesn't work for hopbursts. From what I've read, hopbursts don't have to be a mixture of different hops though there may be a reason most are.  

Jye, how many grams are you adding at 10 and 5?

I tried the Country Brewer Xtract APA kit and the Grumpy's Boston Cream. Both were good for kits, but the Country Brewer one was better IMO.

I've used the California Ale yeast (WLP051) and the Pacific Ale yeast (WLP041) and prefer the Pacific though I've never done a straight comparison. Due to autolysis, it looks like my next APA will be made with 1028. Anybody like using this in their APAs?


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## DrewCarey82 (5/7/06)

DJR said:


> DrewCarey82 said:
> 
> 
> > What would you guys recommend for a partial recipe.
> ...



Greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


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## Jye (5/7/06)

Stuster said:


> Jye, how many grams are you adding at 10 and 5?



Stuster, this is the hop schedule for my case swap contribution, it was meant to have 30gm of mash hops but I forgot to add them :angry: 

12.00 gm Amarillo, Centennial, Simcoe Mix [10.10%] (25 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
12.00 gm Amarillo, Centennial, Simcoe Mix [10.10%] (20 min) Hops 9.0 IBU 
12.00 gm Amarillo, Centennial, Simcoe Mix [10.10%] (15 min) Hops 7.3 IBU 
24.00 gm Amarillo, Centennial, Simcoe Mix [10.10%] (10 min) Hops 10.7 IBU 
24.00 gm Amarillo, Centennial, Simcoe Mix [10.10%] (5 min) Hops 6.2 IBU 
45.00 gm Amarillo, Centennial, Simcoe Mix [10.10%] (Dry Hop 7 days)


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## Kai (5/7/06)

With a schedule like that I don't think you'd notice the lack of mash hops anyway.


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## Hutch (5/7/06)

APA - :chug: 
What a great style.
Was my first AG - I spent a great deal of time reading Jayse's SFPA thread (plenty of good info/recipe advice there).

1st attempt was a LCPA clone - EKG bittering, heaps of Cascade for flavour/aroma/dry-hop, and 10g Chinook in at the end. JW Ale malt, Munich, wheat, Crystal, Wyeast 1056 @ 20deg. Kegged and drank 1 month later - my mates couldn't believe it was home-brew!!! (I took that as a compliment  ). This will probably become a regular on-tap.

Further attempts have used Amarillo - such a smooth hop - and London Ale 1318 Wyeast. Not so suited to the style IMHO, as the "minerally" yeast flavours tend to compete with the beatiful floral/citrus hop character.

My 2C - Stick with any of the US-Ale yeasts (1056, 1272, 001, US-56) and your hops will really shine through, as is the main characteristic of the style.

Also, The Brewing Network had a great episode in April on this style - well worth a listen: The Jamil Show

Hutch.


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## Ash in Perth (5/7/06)

My latest: 16L batch
ale malt base with about 5% of wheat, crystal and acid malts 

15g williamette at 20, 10, 0 and dry.
15g chinook at 20 and 10

about 40IBU, OG was 1.048 at about 75% efficiency

safale 56

bottled yesterday and it was tasting good!


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## Jye (5/7/06)

Hutch said:


> Also, The Brewing Network had a great episode in April on this style - well worth a listen: The Jamil Show
> 
> Hutch.



And for you extract guys check out the 02-12-06 Sunday Live Show which features Jim Rossi, he is Americas most award winning APA / IPA brewer and he does it with extract.

Basic Brewing also has some videos on brewing a 6 pack of IPA, it show just how simple brewing can be.


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## Voosher (5/7/06)

It's all about the hops.
I've tried hopburst and some involved hop additions but I've returned to the "less is more" school of thinking.
My stock APA is Simcoe @ 60m, Amarillo at 1-2g/l @ 10-15m depending on mood, grist, gravity etc, Cascade 1-2g/l @ 0-2m.
First wort hopping, mash hopping and dry hopping are valid and oft used variations.
I'm just about over Wyeast 1056. It's a good enough yeast but it tires quite quickly if you use simple washing techniques as I do.
1272 is the current preference.
US-56 is a damn good alternative to 1056 and seems more robust to me so far.
Wyeast 1028 is fine as well especially with higher gravity or maltier APA's.
Certainly a great style.
I still remember the first time I drank a good example. "This is an *American* Pale Ale?!?!?!?!? You mean you can get good beers out of America?!?!?"


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## Steve (5/7/06)

I would also like to add a bit to my bit before......I believe these are best drunk green, and I mean green - 7 days after bottling. Ive left a few in my vault for maybe 3-4 months and was quite disappointed with the results. Just my opinion
Cheers
Steve


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## Stuster (5/7/06)

As long as you add the right amount of hops, they should be green.  

I agree with drinking them early, though 7 days seems quick. I do admit to tasting an APA I made in January after only two days in the bottle. For testing purposes only of course, but it was quite good then. :chug:


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## Kai (5/7/06)

None of my beers remotely approach ready seven days after bottling, which the possible exception of wheat beers.


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## wee stu (5/7/06)

Kai said:


> None of my beers remotely approach ready seven days after bottling, which the possible exception of wheat beers.



Kai, be honest now, how many of your beers actually make it past the "primary fermenter taste test" stage  ??

I'll be honest, then. Most of Kai's beers that do get beyond the PFTT stage and into bottle, are worth waiting the extra 8 days for


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## wee stu (5/7/06)

DrewCarey82 said:


> What would you guys recommend for a partial recipe.



Never tried it myself, so _caveat emptor _ and all that, but a long standing favourite has been the one from Grumpys. 

For kit based brewers, the Boston Cream Ale Masterbrew from the same source has done impressively well in a number of competitions over the last few years also. (No affiliation, ya da ya da....)

DC - Do a search on Skunkfart and I am sure jayse had prepared more than one partial recipe.

And while I have your attention, I would just like to add that APA is one of the *single style * category classes at this year's ANAWBS (Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show) comp. 

Single style means that, _no matter what method you have used to brew the beer_, you can be sure that your beer will be judged *solely * against other beers entered as the same type. ie APAs will _only _ be judged against other APAs. If you have an APA you are proud of, and want comments from a BJCP sanctioned competion on....... ?

Well, I know where I will be sending my beer  .


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## Kai (5/7/06)

wee stu said:


> Kai said:
> 
> 
> > None of my beers remotely approach ready seven days after bottling, which the possible exception of wheat beers.
> ...



"approaching ready" and "i might be getting stuck into them" are two different things, of course.


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## jimi (5/7/06)

Who's used Ahtanum in an APA before??

Some say like Cascade some say "unique", I've never used the hop myself, but keen to try something new.

Thoughts?


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## wee stu (6/7/06)

jimi said:


> Who's used Ahtanum in an APA before??
> 
> Some say like Cascade some say "unique", I've never used the hop myself, but keen to try something new.
> 
> Thoughts?



I regularly use ahtanum in my Little Big Man American Indian Pale Ale, and like it a lot. 

Will post the recipe later tonight when I get home.


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## wee stu (6/7/06)

OK here she goes:


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Little Big Man 4
Brewer: wee stu
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 30.49 L
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 16.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 70.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 67.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SGrain 75.2 % 
0.60 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM) Grain 9.0 % 
0.50 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM) Grain 7.5 % 
0.30 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30.0 SRM) Grain 4.5 % 
0.25 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 % 
50.00 gm Ahtanum [5.70%] (60 min) Hops 29.7 IBU 
45.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (30 min) Hops 19.8 IBU 
15.00 gm Target [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 15.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (10 min) Hops 4.8 IBU 
8.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops - 
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (0 min) Hops - 
0.29 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Safale us-56 (DCL) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.64 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 17.34 L of water at 77.6 C 67.8 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 9.71 L of water at 92.4 C 75.6 C 10 min 


Notes:
------

Now that I look back on it, maybe I should call it the kitchen sink APA, cos almost everything else seems to be in it.

Slightly surprised I only usced the one yeast  

Last one was a tad over bitter at the back of the thrapple. Was thinking of cutting back on the target next time.

Awrabest, stu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## tangent (6/7/06)

that's gotta be your most complex and long winded recipe ever Stu.
for a balanced and basics brewer, that's carpet bombing 
welcome to my over-complicated world


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## tangent (6/7/06)

great topic and style
newbies - you've gotta make one of these first!
totally agree, great 1st AG. Just have to let it smooth a bit in the keg or bottle IMO.

i started with:
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
Australian Pale Ale Malt 5.00 kg 92.6 % In Mash/Steeped
German CaraMunich I 0.25 kg 4.6 % In Mash/Steeped
German Wheat Malt 0.15 kg 2.8 % In Mash/Steeped
Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
US Simcoe 14.1 5 g Pelletized Hops 60 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
US Simcoe 14.1 5 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 25 g Pelletized Hops 15 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 25 g Pelletized Hops 5 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 25 g Pelletized Hops At turn off

then tried:
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
Australian Barrett Burston Galaxy 5.00 kg 88.2 % In Mash/Steeped
German CaraMunich II 0.52 kg 9.2 % In Mash/Steeped
German CaraAroma 0.15 kg 2.6 % In Mash/Steeped
Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
US Cascade 6.0 50 g Pelletized Hops 60 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 40 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 10 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 15 g Pelletized Hops 15 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Pelletized Hops 15 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 15 g Pelletized Hops 5 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Pelletized Hops 5 Min From End


then tried:
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
Australian Barrett Burston Galaxy 2.10 kg 37.3 % In Mash/Steeped
Australian Pale Ale Malt 2.10 kg 37.3 % In Mash/Steeped
German Pilsner Malt 1.10 kg 19.5 % In Mash/Steeped
German CaraAmber 0.30 kg 5.3 % In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Pils 0.03 kg 0.5 % In Mash/Steeped
Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
US Nugget 9.5 27 g Bagged Whole Hops 40 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Bagged Whole Hops 25 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 15 g Pelletized Hops 20 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Bagged Whole Hops 10 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 15 g Pelletized Hops 10 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Bagged Whole Hops 5 Min From End

and have finished with:
Ingredient	Amount	%	When
Australian Barrett Burston Galaxy 2.75 kg 46.4 % In Mash/Steeped
Australian Pale Ale Malt 2.75 kg 46.4 % In Mash/Steeped
German CaraAmber 0.25 kg 4.2 % In Mash/Steeped
German Melanoidin Malt 0.15 kg 2.5 % In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Pils 0.03 kg 0.5 % In Mash/Steeped
Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
US Nugget 9.5 30 g Bagged Whole Hops 40 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Bagged Whole Hops 25 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 15 g Pelletized Hops 20 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 15 g Bagged Whole Hops 10 Min From End
US Amarillo 8.4 30 g Pelletized Hops 5 Min From End
US Cascade 6.0 30 g Bagged Whole Hops 5 Min From End

Biggest improvements have been in order of significance:
fresher hops,
fresher hops,
fresher hops,
more hops, 
a lower mash temp (~64C)
and better yeasts.

I started with a CPA capture, used US56, then went to American Ale II and reused that. Impressed with that yeast. But u can't beat the US56 for an easy quick solution.

The addition of Pilsner malt has made it dissapear way too quickly from the keg. I try to let it mature but by the time it's matured enough and is tasting awesome I've got about a litre left. As good as this sounds I'm going back to ale malts to get some more backbone with a dry finish.

Nerdulator is saying I'm getting approx 75% with a fine grind from a Chinese corn grinder 

edit- some of my hop origins may be dodgy due to my record keeping laziness.


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## Weizguy (6/7/06)

My turn  

Did anyone mention SFPA. Of course they did, and for good reason. Top brew in many incarnations.
Not hard to formulate an APA, but to make an exceptional APA is like making a remarkable porter, easy in theory, but try it yourself and see if you can beat an SFPA.

Yeast? I have, and use: US-56, W1712 Am II, YeastLabs A01 Am ale yeast.

Based solely on the recommendation earlier in this thread, any noobs/ neophyte zymoligists/ exploring and aspiring brewers should have a go at an ESB 3kg paint tin o'goo.

APA sets off well against the consumption of several weizens, from experience.

Hops? Cascade, Chinook, Willamette, and Amarillo, but not necessarily in that order. Oh, and I think that it work best with max=2 hop varieties. Chinook goes well in the Arrogant Bastard, with more Chinook. I know it's not an APA, but it's a close relative, and could be done as an APA, with maybe some Munich and melanoidin.

Pils and/or ale malt, as well as crystal and Vienna with maybe some choc (<50g) or a dash of dark crystal. Maybe a sour mash with some bourbon barrel character?

my 2 cents has run out.  

Testify!
Seth


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## Kai (6/7/06)

Here's a different one:

Imperial Mild Ale

brewed 2/10/05

14 litres
OG 1.037
FG 1.013
3.2% ABV
28 IBU
15 EBC

50% 1.25kg hoepfner munich
25% 625g weyermann pils
20% 500g hoepfner melanoidin
5% 125g TF caramalt

69C mash for 40 minutes

11g simcoe @ 60mins, 12% AA, 23 IBU
10g amarillo at 10 mins, 8.5% AA, 5 IBU
10g simcoe at flameout
10g amarillo at flameout

1332 Wyeast Northwest Ale

fermented at 23C


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## wee stu (7/7/06)

tangent said:


> that's gotta be your most complex and long winded recipe ever Stu.
> for a balanced and basics brewer, that's carpet bombing
> welcome to my over-complicated world



Somewhere, in the mists of time, the original Little Big Man was based on a clone recipe I found for Sierra Nevada's Celebration Ale. (that was a lovely beer)

Then I decided to tweak it and make it a little bit more English IPA, hence the Target. Aiming for a transatlantic IPA perhaps :unsure: (that was the best beer I had ever made till then)

Then I found another clone Celebration recipe and tweaked the original a bit more. Not realising that Celebration is a seasonal (Xmas/Thanksgiving) ale which has changed recipes from year to year. (that one was a bit of a disappointment  I put it in a Xmas case too :angry: ) 

Then I discovered Amarillo and the whole thing changed again, to the current recipe (nice beer, but needs simplifying for my tastes :lol: )

All in all, a work in progress.


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## mje1980 (7/7/06)

I have 1007 german ale yeast. Could this be used in an apa??, it is fairly nuetral, and has no yeast flavour at all really. I only have english ale yeasts otherwise.


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## Jase (7/7/06)

mje1980 said:


> I have 1007 german ale yeast. Could this be used in an apa??, it is fairly nuetral, and has no yeast flavour at all really. I only have english ale yeasts otherwise.




I've made APA's in the past with WLP013 London Ale, and they turned out alright. Well I thought they did.

But don't take my word for it, I've made bocks in the past with the same yeast. h34r: And didn't that upset some people!!!!!

Cheers,
Jase

Edit: Spelling.


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## Voosher (7/7/06)

mje1980 said:


> I have 1007 german ale yeast. Could this be used in an apa??, it is fairly nuetral, and has no yeast flavour at all really. I only have english ale yeasts otherwise.



I've made APA's with 1007 and they're fine. You'll find it emphasises malt more than the traditional 1056 or 1272 but when was that a bad thing? Sounds like a good excuse to throw in even more hops.
 

Afterthought... You've got me thinking... time for another 1007 APA.
:chug:

Edit: Which English Ale yeasts? Wyeast 1028 is good in an APA as well though personally I prefer to use it in higher gravity APA's or those APA's which push almost into the Amber zone.


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## Steve (15/12/06)

How does this sound? Comments, thoughts?

4kg Golden Promise Ale
500gms Wheat malt
500gms Munich
300gms Carapils
25gms Roasted malt

24gms Chinook (12.8%) @ 60mins
20gms Amarillo (10%) @ 30 mins
20gms Cascade (5.5%) @ 15 mins & 0 mins & dry hop

Whirlfloc & US 56 dry yeast

Cheers - is the carapils necessary if the wheat malt is in there?


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## warrenlw63 (15/12/06)

Steve said:


> How does this sound? Comments, thoughts?
> 
> 4kg Golden Promise Ale
> 500gms Wheat malt
> ...



Looks nice Steve.

I'd go slightly the opposite way. Maybe lose the wheat and keep the Carapils. Will leave a little more residual body in the beer. 

Looks like a 23 litre batch you're making. Maybe even halve the Carapils.  

Warren -


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## Steve (15/12/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Looks nice Steve.
> 
> I'd go slightly the opposite way. Maybe lose the wheat and keep the Carapils. Will leave a little more residual body in the beer.
> 
> ...




OK - thanks for that Warren. Will lost the wheat and halve the carapils. Much appreciated...and yes its 23 litres.
Steve


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## Ross (15/12/06)

Hi Steve,

I personally don't like more than 5gms of chinook at the start of the boil, as I find the grapfruit overpowers everything else - but if it's grapfruit you want, then no problem.
I'd ditch either the carapils or the wheat, can really see the need for both.

cheers Ross


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## DJR (15/12/06)

Steve said:


> OK - thanks for that Warren. Will lost the wheat and halve the carapils. Much appreciated...and yes its 23 litres.
> Steve



Can i suggest a little Crystal or Caramalt in there as well? Probably just about 100g of Light Crystal would do it, but looks like a tasty drop nonetheless. And why not bitter with the Amarillo, it will be smoother than Chinook by a long way (about 35% cohumulone in the Chinook vs about 15-20% in the Amarillo). Chuck some amarillo in at whirlpool as well, Cascade and Amarillo is a great combo. All you need then is to start experimenting with the other strange hops for APA's, like Simcoe & B Saaz. The CH show winning AIPA used a combo of Simcoe Amarillo and Cascade, was a damn fine drop.


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## Steve (15/12/06)

OK - thats for the comments...after a think and a bit of jiggling im going to go for this:

4kg Golden Promise Ale
500gms Munich
150gms Carapils
100gms Light Crystal
25gms Roasted malt

30gms Amarillo (10%) @ 60mins
25gms Cascade (5.5%) @ 30 mins
20gms Cascade @ 15 mins & 0 mins
15gms Amarillo dry hop
15gms Cascade dry hop

Whirlfloc & US 56 dry yeast

:super: 

Cheers
Steve


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## Voosher (15/12/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Looks nice Steve.
> 
> I'd go slightly the opposite way. Maybe lose the wheat and keep the Carapils. Will leave a little more residual body in the beer.
> 
> ...



This is the way I'm going as well.
I've used wheat generally for head retention 'cos I've never been a fan of Carapils.
With Joe White Trad as the base for APA's I've found the body lacking just a little so I've done just as Warren suggests here and switched 5% Wheat for 5% Carapils.
The Golden Promise may give a little more body than Joe White but no harm in going the Carapils to be sure.


Edit: Posted my reply and then saw your revised recipe.
You'll barely taste 100g Light crystal in that grist. With the roast grain around 4-5% crystal won't hurt.
Perhaps a little more Carapils as well, again around the 5% mark.


----------



## Fingerlickin_B (15/12/06)

Watch out Steve...I know where your keg fridge is!  

APA, yummy, yummy, yummy :chug: :chug: :chug:


----------



## Steve (15/12/06)

what about 300gms of Light Crystal and the same for the Carapils? Jeesshhh


----------



## Voosher (15/12/06)

Steve said:


> what about 300gms of Light Crystal and the same for the Carapils? Jeesshhh



250 of each. That's close enough to 5%.
Going once,
Going twice,

My final offer...

SOLD?


----------



## Steve (15/12/06)

Voosher said:


> 250 of each. That's close enough to 5%.
> Going once,
> Going twice,
> 
> ...




SOLD!!!! Will chuck in Amarillo at 15 mins & 0 mins too - bugger it!

APA Zinger 40 IBUs

4kg Golden Promise Ale
500gms Munich
250gms Carapils
250gms Light Crystal
25gms Roasted malt

30gms Amarillo (10%) @ 60mins
25gms Cascade (5.5%) @ 30 mins
20gms Cascade @ 15 mins & 0 mins
20gms Amarillo @ 15 mins & 0 mins
15gms Amarillo dry hop
15gms Cascade dry hop

Whirlfloc & US 56 dry yeast

Cheers all :beer: 
Steve


----------



## warrenlw63 (15/12/06)

This is what happens when you put recipes up for scrutiny Steve. :lol: :lol: 

Lock, load and brew before you change yer mind again. h34r: 

Warren -


----------



## DJR (15/12/06)

I like it when Steve asks for feedback, always a good chance to improve on something that is already OK...

Seems like every time we do it though it goes from about 25 IBU to 40 :lol:


----------



## Steve (15/12/06)

DJR said:


> I like it when Steve asks for feedback, always a good chance to improve on something that is already OK...
> 
> Seems like every time we do it though it goes from about 25 IBU to 40 :lol:




Locked in and have printed out me shopping list :lol: 
Thanks
Steve


----------



## Voosher (15/12/06)

Steve said:


> Locked in and have printed out me shopping list :lol:
> Thanks
> Steve



But there ain't no such thing as a locked in recipe...  

You'll be there with 5mins of the boil left and a few measely grams of some sort of hop lying around and you'll say "Bugger it. That can go in too."
We all do it.
:lol:


----------



## Maxt (15/12/06)

I think APA's are my favourite style. I look forward to trying this one Steve! All grains crushed with the new improved Marga?


----------



## Steve (15/12/06)

Maxt said:


> I think APA's are my favourite style. I look forward to trying this one Steve! All grains crushed with the new improved Marga?




yeah Max - just finished cracking em. Bought a 10mm spade bit for me drill. Works great. I may let you have a sample when its done  
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Mr Bond (15/12/06)

Voosher said:


> But there ain't no such thing as a locked in recipe...
> 
> You'll be there with 5mins of the boil left and a few measely grams of some sort of hop lying around and you'll say "Bugger it. That can go in too."
> We all do it.
> :lol:



Amen.. to that "Father Voosher"


----------



## razz (26/6/07)

I'm just sipping on a SNPA clone and I must say that the cascade hops added for flavour and aroma have really lasted the distance. I kegged this beer about 10 weeks ago and expected the cascade to fade somewhat. :beer:


----------



## DrewCarey82 (26/6/07)

APA's lol. Been a a while since I brewed but with my stockpile of Amarillo and Cascade it will be this style for a while yet.

ISB'ers will get this reference.


----------



## DJR (26/6/07)

Drew, how bout you give a pure 10 mins hop addition APA a go - that way you can use up about 150g of your hops in one hit - 75g of Amarillo 7% and 75g of Cascade 4.2% for about 40IBU 

I might just do one with pure Aussie Cascade 5.5% at 10mins just to see how it turns out...


----------



## DrewCarey82 (26/6/07)

My triple APA's of Centenial or Simco + Amarillo + Cascade are a tad harsh on the pallet but after 3 months below nicely.

Get rid of a lazy 110g a hit there.

And yeah DJR I've done a few pure cascade ones and I reckon they are fantastic a tad sweet but go down so easily its great.


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (27/6/07)

The next one of these styles I brew will be with a combination of hops I haven't tried together.
Going to use Warrior and Colombus all the way through. Looking forward to tasting how these two combine.

C&B
TDA


----------



## neonmeate (27/6/07)

just racked me first columbus APA. great orangey stuff in the nose but a bit too green and piney on its own for aroma... next time i reckon i will blend it with something softer like amarillo or goldings even (perhaps NZ goldings)

actually i take that back i just hadda taste again and it is great stuff


----------



## warrenlw63 (27/6/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> The next one of these styles I brew will be with a combination of hops I haven't tried together.
> Going to use Warrior and Colombus all the way through. Looking forward to tasting how these two combine.
> 
> C&B
> TDA



Got my next one slotted in the to-do line TDA...

I'm going for a combination of Columbus and new season's NZ Cascade Flowers. :wub: 

Warren -


----------



## DJR (27/6/07)

Ahh APA

Every time i think of it i just come up with so many combos of hops to try out, i'm sure they are all crackers!

Going to try an all Columbus/Tomahawk one since i have craploads of the stuff from MSB
And an all 10mins Cascade one
Then another D Saaz one (last one was absolutely brilliant - D Saaz, Amarillo and Magnum)
Then some sort of Nelson Sauvin one
Then something using B Saaz
Still have some Simcoe and Amarillo kicking round as well

I think i have too many hops :lol:


----------



## Stuster (27/6/07)

DJR said:


> I think i have too many hops :lol:



You do. Why not just give some away to free up some freezer space.  

Go all D Saaz. All Columbus is fine and definitely worth doing, but I think neonmeate is right first time that it needs blending with something. Amarillo would be good (always is). Love to know how those combos comes out, TDA and Warren. Columbus is definitely on my to buy list once I get through my back catalogue of hops.


----------



## Duff (27/6/07)

Bugger giving them away. Just dump them in at the end. After trying Jye's hopburst, I'm sold on the simple Simcoe/Cascade combo. This is what I'm thinking of trying next, a big dump at 5 min.

----------

07-29 Hopburst III

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.50
Anticipated OG: 1.045 Plato: 11.12
Anticipated SRM: 5.4
Anticipated IBU: 31.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
53.3 4.00 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 3
26.7 2.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
13.3 1.00 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 10
6.7 0.50 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.039 8

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Simcoe Pellet 13.40 18.5 20 min.
125.00 g. Cascade Whole 8.20 12.8 5 min.


Yeast
-----

US56


----------



## boingk (27/6/07)

Still waiting on my APA to carb up - I've been waiting and the temps are fine [now]. They do seem to be slowly getting there...but geez they're irritating me. 

Its almost like they're...watching me :blink:


----------



## bconnery (27/6/07)

Thinking about this one as a semi-hopburst APA. 

Cluster and Cascade combo all the way through. 

Still working out beersmith and my system so my efficiency might be a little higher but I think the IBUs will work ok either way...

Haven't attempted an APA as AG yet, just some extract ones in the past so any comments appreciated. 

I really want to use up my 70g of Cluster which is why I've gone this. I could use some Amarillo but I'd rather save that to use with the last 20g of Cascade...

Recipe: CC Rider
Brewer: Mooshells
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 22.00 L 
Boil Size: 35.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 7.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 42.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 46.3 % 
2.50 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 46.3 % 
0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 % 
0.10 kg Carared (Weyermann) (24.0 SRM) Grain 1.9 % 
0.10 kg Crystal, Dark (Bairds) (110.0 SRM) Grain 1.9 % 
15.00 gm Cluster [6.90%] (60 min) Hops 12.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (60 min) Hops 12.2 IBU 
10.00 gm Cluster [6.90%] (15 min) Hops 4.2 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Cluster [6.90%] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Cluster [6.90%] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (5 min) Hops 1.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops - 
10.00 gm Cluster [6.90%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)Hops - 
15.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops - 
15.00 gm Cluster [6.90%] (Dry Hop 6 days) Hops -


----------



## Mr Bond (27/6/07)

The one I've got in primary has Glacier(lo cohumulone) @ 60 min, with centennial for flava and aroma,lemon and grapefruit yum!


----------



## Inge (28/8/07)

Hey guys, just reviving this thread to ask a few questions about Chinook in American Pale Ales.

I've got this recipe in mind, I wanted a Cascade backbone with a Chinook bite, but I am unsure as to just how much Chinook to use. Searching through other threads, I've read that less is more when it comes to Chinook as it can be quite harsh. 

I wanted to get this one ready for the grand final.
*
Chinook Pale Ale, partial mash*

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.048 SG (1.045-1.056 SG) 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.012 SG (1.010-1.015 SG) 
Estimated Color: 17.5 EBC 
Bitterness: 38 IBU (20.0-40.0 IBU) 
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.8 % 
Batch Size: 21.50 L 
Boil Volume: 18.37 L Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 66.0 % (estimated, will be batch sparging)

*Fermentables:*

1.50 kg Coopers Malt Extract - Light (16.0 EBC) Extract 33.3 % 

2.75 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 61.1 % 

0.25 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 5.6 % 
*
Hops:*

20.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 17.1 IBU 
5.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (30 min) Hops 6.4 IBU 
5.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (30 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU 
5.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 7 days)

*Yeast:*
Safale S-05
The mash will be single infusion at 66˚C for an hour with a mash out at 75˚C.

What do we reckon? Is 15 grams of Chinook enough, too much? Less in bittering, more in flavour? Is it suitable for dry hopping?


----------



## Kai (29/8/07)

That much chinook won't be overpowering next to the Cascade, you could easily up it a little on the late additions. It's suitable for dry hopping if you want to add some there.

Dig the recipe, nice and simple.


----------



## Inge (29/8/07)

Okay, that sounds good. Will dry hop with 10 grams of Chinook in addition to the 20g of Cascade at dry hop, and maybe I'll chuck in another 5 or 10 at flameout. I'm approaching 40 IBUs with this recipe as it is, don't want to over bitter as my pansy mates have to drink this stuff!



Cheers for your opinion.


----------



## bconnery (14/9/07)

Just to keep this thread going for a while longer....

I've got a few bits and bobs of hops including 30g Simcoe and nearly a full 90g pack of Horizon and Amarillo so I thought I'd do a semi hopburst APA to fill up new keg no3.... 

Just thought I'd look to see if these seemed way wide of the mark as I haven't really played much with the hopburst type method. 

Any other thoughts most welcome...



APA
Brewer: Mooshells
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 35.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 21.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 41.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %


Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2500.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 45.05 % 
2000.00 gm Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 36.04 % 
500.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 9.01 % 
200.00 gm Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.60 % 
100.00 gm Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 1.80 % 
100.00 gm Crystal, Dark (Bairds) (216.7 EBC) Grain 1.80 % 
100.00 gm Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 1.80 % 
50.00 gm Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (630.4 EBC) Grain 0.90 % 
30.00 gm Horizon [9.30 %] (20 min) Hops 19.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Simcoe [11.00 %] (10 min) Hops 6.9 IBU 
10.00 gm Horizon [9.30 %] (10 min) Hops 3.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 11.1 IBU 
15.00 gm Simcoe [11.00 %] (0 min) Hops - 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 tsp Salt (Boil 75.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Safale S05 (US56) (Safale #S05) Yeast-Ale


----------



## Stuster (14/9/07)

Looks fine to me as is. I'd probably drop the Carafa, though there's no reason not to have an APA at the darker end of the scale.

One question about the hops - why have you chosen to use the amounts you have, when you have? You have 30g at 20, 55g at 10, and 30g at 0. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, just wondering. :unsure:


----------



## Jye (14/9/07)

I know your not a style brewer Ben so the carafa is up to you, I take its only there for colour. I would drop the carapils, you already have a lot of crystal malt in there and if you want more body just mash a degree or 2 higher.

I first started to use horizon because I read it was a clean bittering hop but the last couple of times it has given a really Bizarre flavour... not something I enjoyed  No idea what it would be like at late addition so it may be worth a try.

Go the simcoe/amarillo combo, its what I used in my QAAWBG apa to beat Ross


----------



## bconnery (14/9/07)

Stuster said:


> One question about the hops - why have you chosen to use the amounts you have, when you have? You have 30g at 20, 55g at 10, and 30g at 0. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, just wondering. :unsure:



There is and there isn't. I have 30g of Simcoe, but I figured 90g of hopburst wasn't enough, which is what I would get if I mixed the three in equal amounts. 

So I put a 30g 'bittering' addition @20 and was originally going to have equal amounts at the 10 and 0 minute addition but then the IBUs didn't seem right so I wacked in another few bits here and there. 



Jye, I know Simcoe amarillo would work well but I have a small amount of Simcoe and I'm interested in using the Horizon because it is there 

As for the carafa, it has to be used up and I also really like the stuff so a little amount to put a little of the character in there will be alright I think...And you are right, style isn't a huge concern


----------



## sathid (2/11/07)

Kai said:


> Only tip I have right now is don't bitter with, or overdo, the Cascade. But people seem to be moving away from that these days anyway.



Can anyone clarify this statement for me? Reason being, I recently brewed a pale ale, and got my cascade and chinook hop pellets mixed up, and ended up with cascade in for the whole 60min wort boil.


----------



## Steve (2/11/07)

sathid said:


> Can anyone clarify this statement for me? Reason being I just made a pale ale, and got my cascade and chinook hop pellets mixed up, and ended up with cascade in for the whole 60min wort boil.




just personal preference I think sathid. Nothing wrong with cascade going in at 60. I do it all the time....if you got them mixed up how do you know if it WAS cascade at 60 mins? I personally think too much chinook is overpowering.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## sathid (2/11/07)

I labelled the containers with my hops, but put the wrong "addition time" on the label. So technically I didn't mistake the cascade for the chinook, but actually added them at the wrong time. I realised only after I added the first lot of hops (20g of cascade), so I halved my second addition (meant to be the first ) of cascade, and added some chinook in with them. 

Thanks for the feedback! I was a bit worried that they might not be very good bittering hops or something (certainly tastes quite bitter at the moment )


----------



## rude (31/3/10)

Have posted on another thread but will go here as well doing my first APA

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.54 % 
0.50 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 9.62 % 
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 3.85 % 
18.00 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 23.2 IBU 
30.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 12.6 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (2 min) Hops 1.4 IBU 

I have been reading this style thread & chinook sounds overpowering so maybe I'de be better 
1. using it less as a bittering hop
2. using it later as a flavour hop swapping the amarillo to bitter

I realise its a use & see how ya go thing but jeez it takes a while to turn a beer out so dont really want to learn the long hard way, advice would be greatly appriciated thanks all


----------



## sluggerdog (12/11/10)

I brewed the RECIPE A a few weeks ago, it came out very nice however just a fraction under where I was hoping for in both malt and hop flavour. I am still however looking for a really light, summer session APA with a flavour similar to a cross between LCBA & JS Golden Ale. The IBU is where I want it to be even though it is under for the style.


Looking for comments on RECIPE B.. I have just added some crystal (good/bad idea?), changed the percentages of malt and increased the 20min hop additions a little more...

Maybe I should change the Saaz B to cascade?


Cheers  



RECIPE A
==============================================
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 50.00 L 
Boil Size: 57.23 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 27.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6500.00 gm Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 72.22 % 
1750.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 19.44 % 
750.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 8.33 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (50 min) Hops 8.0 IBU 
20.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (50 min) Hops 8.4 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (20 min) Hops 5.1 IBU 
20.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (20 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
10.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops - 





RECIPE B
============================================ 
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 50.00 L 
Boil Size: 57.23 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 27.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6500.00 gm Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 69.52 % 
2000.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 21.39 % 
750.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 8.02 % 
100.00 gm Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (118.2Grain 1.07 % 
15.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (50 min) Hops 6.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (50 min) Hops 6.0 IBU 
30.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (20 min) Hops 7.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (20 min) Hops 8.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (0 min) Hops -


----------



## .DJ. (12/11/10)

personally, i'd 
bump up the IBU a little to 30-32 on Recipe B. 
0min hops to be all Amarillo and be .5g/l

your OG and IBU are pretty identical on both receipies but more Vienna and with an addition of crystal. I think (and I may be talking out of my a$$) it maybe less hoppy and a little sweeter? Hence by suggestion of upping the IBU to counteract...

Happy to be corrected.


----------



## jbirbeck (12/11/10)

depends what you're trying to achieve. More malt then I'd use caraaroma or caramunich rather than a straight crystal. malt flavour rather than sweetness and caramel. You may be betteer off adding Munich in place of your vienna to get a better malt profile. I love Vienna to add a bit of depth but if you think it lacks maltiness then Munich is the way. You could split the Vienna 

More hop flavour you need to probably hit at least 1.5g/l for your hopping. 50l batch so total hops at flavour of 75g and you're at 60. Why not make up the extra with some cascade? say 20g. at that level it shouldn't get over the top.

I'd up your aroma additions as well, a belnd of cascade and amarillo would help. Try and get it up to 1g/l. 

But in saying all that, if you think Recipa A was alright but just a little under - go with what you have except my recommendation for munich stands. I'd go 70% Ale, 12% Vienna, 10% Munich 8% Wheat (if you like it in there - personally I don't and would increase the Ale malt)


----------



## sluggerdog (12/11/10)

Thanks for the info, when I get home I will make some mods such as removing the crystal, adding in some munich in place of the vienna and some cascade flavour hops. 

Will update with my recipe when I can.

Cheers


----------



## sluggerdog (12/11/10)

RECIPE UPDATED..... Any comments?

Cheers
:icon_cheers: 



Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 50.00 L 
Boil Size: 57.23 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 7.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6500.00 gm Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 70.27 % 
1000.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 10.81 % 
1000.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 10.81 % 
750.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 8.11 % 
15.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (50 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (50 min) Hops 6.0 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (20 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 3.9 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (20 min) Hops 6.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops -


----------



## boriskane (12/11/10)

sluggerdog said:


> RECIPE UPDATED..... Any comments?
> 
> Cheers
> :icon_cheers:
> ...



im not experienced enough to comment on how good it is, just have a question about why you pick certain ingredients. 

what does adding the Vienna do that the Munich cant? 

and why Pilsner instead of Ale or Pale Ale? 

sorry to detract


----------



## sluggerdog (13/11/10)

boris kane said:


> im not experienced enough to comment on how good it is, just have a question about why you pick certain ingredients.
> 
> what does adding the Vienna do that the Munich cant?
> 
> ...



That's a good point and something I really cannot answer, I do not think there would be much difference between using pilsner or pale malt for the base, I always used pilsner in the past as I only ever bought one base malt. I have thought about it though and will remove the vienna and replace it with munich (just less of it). See updated recipe below.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 50.00 L 
Boil Size: 57.23 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 9.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7500.00 gm Pale Malt (Weyermann) (6.5 EBC) Grain 81.08 % 
1000.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 10.81 % 
750.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 8.11 % 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (50 min) Hops 6.0 IBU 
15.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (50 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz B [8.60 %] (20 min) Hops 6.7 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 3.9 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (20 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops -


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## manticle (13/11/10)

You could use either. Being different malts they will have different flavours. Different brands will also taste different.

Generally I find pilsner malt a bit sweeter than ale malt, vienna a bit more nutty/biscuity than munich.

Why boysenberries instead of blueberries?


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## mika (13/11/10)

To my palate Vienna and Munich aren't that far apart. Both add some maltiness, the Munich admittedly more so and I'd pick out Munich in a beer long before I'd pick Vienna. I usually use Vienna where I want to keep within the colour parameters, especially on lighter beers. A relatively small amount of Munich will significantly increase the colour, I think I'm using Munich I ?
Ale to Pilsener malt, again colour for the most part, cost for the next. I only use German Pilsner malt, and it's a little pricey, but I appreciate the flavour in light beers. Ale malt's a bunch cheaper and when you're going to hop the hell out of it and add munich and crystal, the base malt gets lost pretty quickly, more refined palates may tend to disagree.


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## manticle (13/11/10)

I reckon there's a fair difference evn between JW vienna and wey vienna. I'd say munich and vienna are more similar than they are different but they are different nonetheless. To my palate wey vienna and ding biscuit have a lot of similar characteristics.

Going to put down an APA this afternoon/evening

ale malt
Vienna malt
med crystal
biscuit
amarillo and centennial with frequent late additions to around 50 IBU.


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## therook (7/11/12)

Thinking of putting this together tomorrow as i have a few small bits of this and bits of that

Ale Malt - 70%
Pilsner Malt - 20%
Munich 1 - 10%

Magnum 12.1% - 10 grams 60 minutes
Amarillo 8.2% - 20 grams 10 minutes
Cascade 5.1% - 20 grams 10 minutes

Amarillo, Cascade & Simcoe - 10 grams each at dry hop or thrown in during ferment

Gypsum 5 grams
Epson Salt 2 grams

Mash at 65 - 66c

IBU - 33

No Chill  

Dumping this on a S189 yeast cake and will ferment at 16c

Rook


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## bignath (7/11/12)

therook said:


> Dumping this on a S189 yeast cake and will ferment at 16c



APA on S189?
"know something i don't Rook?" (insert "the snatch" accent here).

I'd go harder than 33IBU's too, but that's just me. 

Other than that, it looks yummy.

EDIT:
..or is the 33 IBU NOT taking the no chill factor into account? ala, beersmith etc..


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## manticle (7/11/12)

Rook knows a lot we don't.


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## bignath (7/11/12)




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## therook (7/11/12)

Yer Nath, i know its not the correct yeast so to speak, should be a cleaner beer, but just throwing something onto the yeast cake that became free today......need a supply for xmas so this was all i could come up with.

Manticle.....hows the brewing going mate?


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## manticle (7/11/12)

Moved into a new place. Got a mild and a dubbel fermenting that were mashed here and bottled a few that were fermented at the old place including a doppel and a wee heavy.

Still setting everything up and aiming for improvements to my primitive system.

All good. Hope you're well.


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## DJR (8/11/12)

therook said:


> Thinking of putting this together tomorrow as i have a few small bits of this and bits of that
> 
> Ale Malt - 70%
> Pilsner Malt - 20%
> ...



Got any crystal malt? maybe just a little bit (<250g), otherwise that looks great, I really like the amarillo/simcoe/cascade combo


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