# Re using yeast slurry questions



## Gloveski (16/5/17)

Well I had my first go at reusing yeast from my last batch after having minimal trubb and some really nice looking yeast cake. So I thought well I'm brewing again in a few days so I might aswell use it and see how it goes. I put down a double brew day yesterday. The yeast came from a brew that only had one hop so I decided to experiment a little . One lot of yeast I washed the other I didnt as I have read mixed reports some saying you should wash and others saying it stresses the yeast. I used Mr Malty's calculator and also have read that people usually pitch about 20% more so this is what I decided to do aswell , not sure if this is right? . Anyway after I put the first brew down just before I was ready to transfer second brew to fermenter I checked original brew and was shocked that after about 3 hours she was already kicking into gear. Once second brew was done I checked that 2 hours latter and that was well under way aswell . Both brews were at 18 degrees fairly quickly and I manged to get temp down to 21 before pitching yeast.

My questions are as I have only used packet yeast in the past is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ?
Was I right to slightly over pitch?
Also is there any risks of ruining a beer with yeast kicking off so quickly , buggered if I could find any info on the optimum lag time if any for yeast to kick in.

Sorry for the long ramble just really curious


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

All good DWHAHB . There is no set optimum lag time just that if it takes off sooner the less time it has to develop infections . No risk of ruining the beer and it is normal for it to kick off quick as there is a shite load of healthy yeast . Over pitching is ok it just depends on the beer your making , for some styles of beer it is good to stress the yeast .


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## Gloveski (16/5/17)

beer belly said:


> All good DWHAHB . There is no set optimum lag time just that if it takes off sooner the less time it has to develop infections . No risk of ruining the beer and it is normal for it to kick off quick as there is a shite load of healthy yeast . Over pitching is ok it just depends on the beer your making , for some styles of beer it is good to stress the yeast .


yeah only doing ales so far and 1 lager so have always just used dry yeast . So first time using slurry and was really suprised how well it kicked off. They were both well aerated so this would obviously help aswell


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## mosto (16/5/17)

In my experience, fresh slurry, or fresh starter will kick off quite quickly. A lot quicker than dry yeast.

I haven't heard the 20% theory, but won't do any harm, depending on the yeast strain and what style of beer your making. For example US05 is a very neutral yeast that doesn't generally throw a lot of esters. If you're pitching into something like an APA, that doesn't require much ester profile, overpitching slightly is fine IMO.

However, if your brewing something like a Hefe with a Hefe style yeast, you want that yeast to 'work' a little so it throws the esters characteristic of that style. In this case, overpitching still won't ruin your beer, but you want get the desired ester profile you're after as the yeast already has a sufficient number of cells, bypassing the re-production phase which creates the bulk of the esters, and goes straight into consuming the sugars in the wort.

I'm certainly no expert, but this is what I've managed to gather from researching a bit and it has generally lined up with my experiences.


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## laxation (16/5/17)

Did you reuse the whole yeast cake or just take a scoop and use some of it?

I was going to try thsi for my next brew (doing 2x the same beer in a row) and was just going to chuck everything straight on top of the cake...


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## Gloveski (16/5/17)

laxation said:


> Did you reuse the whole yeast cake or just take a scoop and use some of it?
> 
> I was going to try thsi for my next brew (doing 2x the same beer in a row) and was just going to chuck everything straight on top of the cake...


No I drained off into sanitised mason jars and cold crashed and used Mr Malty's yeast calculator to get the desired yeast slurry amount and upped it by about 20%. I then brought up to room temp during my brew day. Had easily enough slurry for two brews . I think from memory one had about 180ml and the other about 200ml


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## Gloveski (16/5/17)

mosto said:


> In my experience, fresh slurry, or fresh starter will kick off quite quickly. A lot quicker than dry yeast.
> 
> I haven't heard the 20% theory, but won't do any harm, depending on the yeast strain and what style of beer your making. For example US05 is a very neutral yeast that doesn't generally throw a lot of esters. If you're pitching into something like an APA, that doesn't require much ester profile, overpitching slightly is fine IMO.
> 
> ...



US05 was the yeast so I thought might be a good one to start off with. Would like to do a hef down the track so will do some research thanks for the heads up


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

laxation said:


> Did you reuse the whole yeast cake or just take a scoop and use some of it?
> 
> I was going to try thsi for my next brew (doing 2x the same beer in a row) and was just going to chuck everything straight on top of the cake...


That is fine just dump it straight onto the yeast cake and literally watch it take off . Actually if you scoop some off and wash it you can get a few uses from the original packet . What I do is scoop some off wash it and split it into vials so I can get up to ten or so batches from the one packet or vial of white labs or sachet of wyeast .


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

Gloveski said:


> US05 was the yeast so I thought might be a good one to start off with. Would like to do a hef down the track so will do some research thanks for the heads up


US - 05 great yeast . When you do a Heffe , do not make a starter , chuck the yeast in the FV directly from the package , as this will stress the yeast and produce the flavours like banana , clove or bubblegum .Believe it or not heffe yeast can only be used once as re - using it does not produce the banana , clove or bubblegum flavours again .


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## shacked (16/5/17)

As others have said, slurry / re-pitching can take off really quickly.

I recently repitched WLP013 (london ale) into a 1.061 OG stout. I left it alone for a day or so and came back to the fermenter; it looked pretty much as it did on pitching! I freaked out a bit and took a hydrometer sample thinking that the beer had stalled only to find that fermentation was complete!!

I use Mr. Malty at the highest pitch rate for slurry (thin slurry and highest non-yeast percentage). I used to wash but now I just scoop out of the fermenter into a clean one and pitch wort on top of that.


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## Shadime (16/5/17)

beer belly said:


> That is fine just dump it straight onto the yeast cake and literally watch it take off . Actually if you scoop some off and wash it you can get a few uses from the original packet . What I do is scoop some off wash it and split it into vials so I can get up to ten or so batches from the one packet or vial of white labs or sachet of wyeast .


How long does it last for in the vials and how do you wash it?

Cheers


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## goatchop41 (16/5/17)

beer belly said:


> US - 05 great yeast . When you do a Heffe , do not make a starter , chuck the yeast in the FV directly from the package , as this will stress the yeast and produce the flavours like banana , clove or bubblegum .Believe it or not heffe yeast can only be used once as re - using it does not produce the banana , clove or bubblegum flavours again .


I call bollocks on this


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## Matplat (16/5/17)

^^ likewise.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (16/5/17)

Me three.

Just take an underpitch worth from the slurry.


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

goatchop41 said:


> I call bollocks on this


Well maybe I have been doing it wrong as I have tried repitched Heffe and never got any of those flavours . And don't just say bollocks to this give your reason so that people can learn like Lord Raja's post . For all I know you could be a shit brewer . But what would I know as I haven't tasted any of your beers


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

Shadime said:


> How long does it last for in the vials and how do you wash it?
> 
> Cheers


If it is done correctly it can last a year or two . I have yeast that is a couple of years old . All I do is make a starter if it takes off great I can use it .


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## laxation (16/5/17)

beer belly said:


> make a starter


Is that just warm water + sugar + vial of yeast, leave it for a few days and see if it foams?

Where/how do you store it?


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## kaiserben (16/5/17)

Related to the Hefe pitching tips, roughly how many billion cells should I pitch into a batch of 1.051 wort and a batch of 1.083 wort?

(I'll be preparing a WLP300 starter so I've got enough for both batches).


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

laxation said:


> Is that just warm water + sugar + vial of yeast, leave it for a few days and see if it foams?
> 
> Where/how do you store it?


I usually boil some water with DME in it cool it down to pitching temp , pitch the yeast and keep it on top of my hot water service when I walk past I just give it a swirl and when its done I pitch it into the FV and sometimes I will save a little bit of the starter and do it all over again . I have kept all my Whitelabs vials and use them for storing my yeast . You can use mason jars or jam jars anything to keep the yeast in .


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## laxation (16/5/17)

What do you mean 'when it's done'? What are you looking for?

When you keep it for years, where do you store it?


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

kaiserben said:


> Related to the Hefe pitching tips, roughly how many billion cells should I pitch into a batch of 1.051 wort and a batch of 1.083 wort?
> 
> (I'll be preparing a WLP300 starter so I've got enough for both batches).


I'm not a big cell counter I just pitch what ever the amount of yeast is in the WLP300 vial straight on top of the wort and let the yeasties do their thing . Just experiment with what you have and see what differences it makes when pitching a higher amount of yeast against a lower amount for you will get different flavour profiles from the different pitching rates . Brewing beer is not set in concrete do what you think if it works great if it doesn't look at what you did and then change it .


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## laxation (16/5/17)

Gloveski said:


> I used Mr Malty's calculator


Just had a look at this... is it as simple as going to the Repitch From Slurry, and take that #ml of yeast needed number?

Eg. if it says 90ml, I need to get 90ml of slurry for the next brew? (+20%)

Or is it 90ml of washed yeast?


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

laxation said:


> What do you mean 'when it's done'? What are you looking for?
> 
> When you keep it for years, where do you store it?


How can you tell when fermentation is finished without a hydrometer reading ? I have dedicated fridges for storing all beer related perishable goods .


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

laxation said:


> Just had a look at this... is it as simple as going to the Repitch From Slurry, and take that #ml of yeast needed number?
> 
> Eg. if it says 90ml, I need to get 90ml of slurry for the next brew? (+20%)
> 
> Or is it 90ml of washed yeast?


Look up yeast washing there is a lot of info on this forum . Just get a cup full of slurry wash it and if you get half a cup of yeast you can pitch it or use it as a starter. You could even store some of it .


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## laxation (16/5/17)

You said you put the yeast with the boiled water + DME on your hot water system until its done - you wait until the hydrometer is steady like a regular brew?


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

laxation said:


> You said you put the yeast with the boiled water + DME on your hot water system until its done - you wait until the hydrometer is steady like a regular brew?


Basically make 1.040 starter ( usually a cup of DME in 1500mls of water boil it for around ten minutes or so to sanitise the wort chill it pitch the yeast keep it in a warm not hot but warm place give it a swirl every now and then . You can pitch the starter at high krausen or wait till its finished, then store it in the fridge for a day or two until you are ready to pitch . I don't use the hydrometer when making a starter as I can see when the krausen has finished and then I let it sit for a day or so until I am ready to pitch the yeast .Or in your case make sure the hydrometer is sanitised and yes wait till the reading is steady like a regular brew .


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## Parks (16/5/17)

beer belly said:


> Well maybe I have been doing it wrong as I have tried repitched Heffe and never got any of those flavours . And don't just say bollocks to this give your reason so that people can learn like Lord Raja's post . For all I know you could be a shit brewer . But what would I know as I haven't tasted any of your beers


Yep, the key is purely pitching rate unless you have a yeast blend then it's possible the ratio can get thrown off.

Pitching a vial is an extreme under pitch and I would never recommend it. It may work but I never got consistent results in doing so so it's a big no-no now.


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## lost at sea (16/5/17)

today i kegged a dark mild with 1318 london ale III, had an ordinary bitter in the cube waiting, as soon as the mild was in the keg, the bitter was dumped straight onto the 1318 cake, trub and all. 2 hours later shes cranking away.... i figure if i get 2 brews out of a single wyeast, effectively halving its cost, then im happy....bugger washing yeasts i say... too much effort for this fella...


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## Parks (16/5/17)

lost at sea said:


> bugger washing yeasts i say... too much effort for this fella...


Overbuild your starter and collect before pitch - it's the only way :chug:

FYI: this is what I mean


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## Danscraftbeer (16/5/17)

Gloveski said:


> Well I had my first go at reusing yeast from my last batch after having minimal trubb and some really nice looking yeast cake. So I thought well I'm brewing again in a few days so I might aswell use it and see how it goes. I put down a double brew day yesterday. The yeast came from a brew that only had one hop so I decided to experiment a little . One lot of yeast I washed the other I didnt as I have read mixed reports some saying you should wash and others saying it stresses the yeast. I used Mr Malty's calculator and also have read that people usually pitch about 20% more so this is what I decided to do aswell , not sure if this is right? . Anyway after I put the first brew down just before I was ready to transfer second brew to fermenter I checked original brew and was shocked that after about 3 hours she was already kicking into gear. Once second brew was done I checked that 2 hours latter and that was well under way aswell . Both brews were at 18 degrees fairly quickly and I manged to get temp down to 21 before pitching yeast.
> 
> My questions are as I have only used packet yeast in the past is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ?
> Was I right to slightly over pitch?
> ...


is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ? Yes.

Was I right to slightly over pitch?
Slight is the key here. You get good results on both with variable flavour character. I'm kinda paranoid about under pitching but it can have great results too. I've done that experiment. Take thorough notes of these details because if you get that winning beer eg: One of my highest rated home brews It happened to be noted that I slightly under pitched by Mrmalty calculations.

Over pitched can be a fast and furious fermentation and slightly under pitched can have the lag time before kicking into gear.
Re- take all notes of these details.
Temp- I pressure ferment starting at the lowest temp of the yeasts range. Finishing ferment at the highest temp of the yeast range.


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## Gloveski (16/5/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> is this normal for a slurry to kick off so quick ? Yes.
> 
> Was I right to slightly over pitch?
> Slight is the key here. You get good results on both with variable flavour character. I'm kinda paranoid about under pitching but it can have great results too. I've done that experiment. Take thorough notes of these details because if you get that winning beer eg: One of my highest rated home brews It happened to be noted that I slightly under pitched by Mrmalty calculations.
> ...



Great info mate I am taking notes on every brew


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## Quokka42 (16/5/17)

My experience is slightly overpitching and starting cool works really well, too. I just collect enough slurry to nearly fill a sterilised vegemite jar and the amount of yeast that settles out (100ml?) seems about right. Don't ever try the advice of dropping another beer onto the full yeast crop - it turned out really shite for me.

As for stressing your yeast - I say go easy on the hard-working little buggers, nothing good can come from causing your workers undue stress. Are there yeast psychologists?


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## goatchop41 (16/5/17)

beer belly said:


> Well maybe I have been doing it wrong as I have tried repitched Heffe and never got any of those flavours . And don't just say bollocks to this give your reason so that people can learn like Lord Raja's post . For all I know you could be a shit brewer . But what would I know as I haven't tasted any of your beers


My reason should be pretty clear...it's a direct disagreement with what you stated. You can repitch and get those flavour compounds, whether over/under/optimal pitch.

You made a very black and white statement (as if it were a well accepted fact) that it could not be used again to get those flavours. Which is wrong. You may have been unlucky enough to have had the one or two batches out of 10,000,000 repitches of a hefe yeast that won't throw out those flavours again.
If you had said "in my experience...." instead of stating it as fact, then it would be different.


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## goatchop41 (16/5/17)

While I'm at it and being a disagreeable asshole, FYI it's 'hefe', not 'heffe'.
There, I said it.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (16/5/17)

*MOD: *Gents, for the sake of avoiding a faeces throwing episode, can we keep it civil. This could be a great brewing discussion if done correctly. Anything resembling a personal attack or provocation to commit same will be removed and warnings issued. Not saying it's there, but just a warning to keep it on the level.

For my part, I should have been more descriptive as to my disagreement on a brewing basis, which I will now do:

Pitching onto a yeast cake does work. But like all yeast based exercises, it's a matter of getting the right colony for the right job. As we are dealing in relatively (relative to the professionals) micro batch exercises, and therefore our results can wildly vary. My experience with Hefe beers, is that an underpitch works. If that's from a yeast cake, it is simply take an 'underpitch' quantity from the yeast cake and go and pitch that. But like all micro-level home brew exercises, it might take some experimenting to work a system that is the equivalent of millennia old breweries standard system.

My honest opinion re: Hefe beers is, rather than pitching on a yeast cake. Get hold of a sachet/smack pack. Build a yeast colony where you can freeze/save the split colony (the 'let's freeze some yeast' thread is awesome) to cover costs. That way, you can use Mr Malty and start from a basis where a guessed quantifiable amount of yeast can be obtained. And it's cheap.

For my yeast cake beers - I did the above with the split colony. After splitting the colony, one vial was used. Pitched a low grav beer, fermented out, and then the higher grav beer when onto the yeast cake. Easy enough. And a $2.50 vial was used for 2 beers, with results being what I expected and wanted.


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

goatchop41 said:


> While I'm at it and being a disagreeable asshole, FYI it's 'hefe', not 'heffe'.
> There, I said it.


Ok so in my experience I have not been able to reproduce those flavours when repitching the hefe yeast. Its not a matter of being a disagreeable asshole its just a matter of backing up the statement like I said your a shit brewer but I have never tasted your beers .I am aware that hefeweizen is spelt with one "f" it is also known as fat finger syndromme .Haven't you ever miss spelt a word unintetionally or typed the same word twice and not realised .


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## boybrewer (16/5/17)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> *MOD: *Gents, for the sake of avoiding a faeces throwing episode, can we keep it civil. This could be a great brewing discussion if done correctly. Anything resembling a personal attack or provocation to commit same will be removed and warnings issued. Not saying it's there, but just a warning to keep it on the level.
> 
> For my part, I should have been more descriptive as to my disagreement on a brewing basis, which I will now do:
> 
> ...


Actually what you said was fair for you backed your statement up . I was only having a dig at goatchop41 for he did not back up the statement he made . Like I said your a shit brewer ........ and backed it up with a statement . I am not here to throw shit around I am here to learn like everybody else as people should not have to hide behind a keyboard to be mean because they themselves had a crappy day and want to take it out other people who they have never met and know nothing about them . Fortunately I have thick skin and can give as good as the next person .As you can see from my posts I gave good information , which in one instance may not have been worded correctly .


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## TSMill (17/5/17)

beer belly said:


> I am aware that hefeweizen is spelt with one "f" it is also known as fat finger syndromme .


Greatest post of all timme!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/5/17)

beer belly said:


> Fortunately I have thick skin and can give as good as the next person .As you can see from my posts I gave good information , which in one instance may not have been worded correctly .


No problem, and not directed to anyone in particular. I've just seen (too many times) these things start with a tiny bit of disagreement, someone takes exception to something and suddenly it descends into personal attacks. Add in the fact that some of us like to read this site whilst partaking in the hobby, and that can add to the problem. I've modded (and sometimes left alone) some interesting drunken rants.


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## goatchop41 (17/5/17)

beer belly said:


> Actually what you said was fair for you backed your statement up . I was only having a dig at goatchop41 for he did not back up the statement he made . Like I said your a shit brewer ........ and backed it up with a statement . I am not here to throw shit around I am here to learn like everybody else as people should not have to hide behind a keyboard to be mean because they themselves had a crappy day and want to take it out other people who they have never met and know nothing about them . Fortunately I have thick skin and can give as good as the next person .As you can see from my posts I gave good information , which in one instance may not have been worded correctly .


I pointed out a misleading statement that was made to a user who was clearly very inexperienced, and would not have known that your statement about repitching that particular sort of yeast was a personal anecdote, as opposed to fact.
Yes, I may have pointed it out like an irate prick (which I am), but there was no personal attacking, nor any 'mean-ness' to it (nor will there be any), just a straight disagreement. That's how discussions work. If one thinks otherwise, then perhaps that skin isn't as thick as initially thought.
It was also a situation where I don't think that there was any "backing up" needed - straight up disagreement with the initial statement about not repitching hefe yeast implies that I am saying that you certainly can get the signature hefe flavours from repitched hefe yeast. If we are talking about 'backing up with evidence', well the initial statement was based on personal opinion, not evidence, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander......anyhow, that's all that I have to say about that, back on topic now......

I am always interested when people claim that underpitching is needed to really get good flavour profiles from a hefe yeast (I also read it a lot about Belgian yeasts). Is there any actual evidence to back this up? It comes up all of the time on forums, yet I've never seen any definitive evidence. I understand the theoretical side of it (stress the yeast, therefore encouraging production of esters/desirable flavour compounds for those yeasts).
So why is it that we also read about a lot of the to European breweries not underpitching? Do they manipulate temp or pressure?


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## laxation (17/5/17)

Parks said:


> Overbuild your starter and collect before pitch - it's the only way :chug:
> 
> FYI: this is what I mean


Had a read of this - but what is the guy starting with in the glass jar? Is that just the yeast cake sloshed around a bit or something and poured in?


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## Parks (17/5/17)

laxation said:


> Had a read of this - but what is the guy starting with in the glass jar? Is that just the yeast cake sloshed around a bit or something and poured in?





> Using a good yeast calculator, overbuild your starter by 100 billion cells. BrewUnited’s Overbuild Harvest function makes this so incredibly easy, you can even download a spreadsheet version.


BrewUnited's Yeast Starter Calculator


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## laxation (17/5/17)

Sorry its completely new to me and I don't know where he's getting his starter from... Is it still from reusing slurry?
can you explain like i'm 5?


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## Parks (17/5/17)

Sorry, it's harvested from a starter which is made from your vial or smack pack of yeast (or potentially from some washed yeast if you wish).

1. Buy a smack pack or Vial
2. Mix 1 to 1.5L of water with 100-150gm dried malt extract (as per what the online calc says)
3. Boil and cool wort to pitching temp.
4. Add yeast and put on stir plate or occasionally mix starter for 12-18hrs
5. Remove 500ML of starter to a sanitised jar, put in the fridge.
6. Pitch remaining liquid into beer or chill and decant.

Then next time do the same process again replacing step 1 with your jar of harvested starter.

(Did that clear it up or make it worse or not address it at all?)


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## laxation (17/5/17)

Perfect, thank you! So basically you buy the yeast once, but then go nuts repeating steps 2-6?

If I was to do this with Coopers yeast, any idea how many billion yeasts I would have in the dregs of a 6 pack?


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## TwoCrows (17/5/17)

There is a difference in the meaning of “yeast re-pitch” and a “yeast starter”.

Re-pitching yeast is salvaging /reusing already grown yeast cells that slowed down in there growth and cell divisions. Taking a small amount of the yeast cake / trub from a previous fermentation and introducing them to your new wort. 
You need to add enough yeast to start readily and also allowing these cells to grow.

Making a yeast starter is the growing of yeast cells ( starting with low cell numbers , not enough to pitch ) to the desired amount cell numbers required for a known wort batch size.

The size of your wort in Litres and the Original gravity (OG) will require you to calculate the amount of cells required to do the job of successfully arriving at Final gravity (FG).


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## Parks (17/5/17)

laxation said:


> Perfect, thank you! So basically you buy the yeast once, but then go nuts repeating steps 2-6?


Pretty much. I'm up to generation 7 of WY1056 and it's still going strong and seems the same. The only time I ditch them is if I've gone too long and they either don't start or I feel like they may have become infected.



laxation said:


> If I was to do this with Coopers yeast, any idea how many billion yeasts I would have in the dregs of a 6 pack?


I haven't done the Coopers thing but I'm sure there's a guide on this forum somewhere...


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## Parks (17/5/17)

TwoCrows said:


> There is a difference in the meaning of “yeast re-pitch” and a “yeast starter”.


The actual meaning of "Yeast Starter" is to literally "start the yeast". It's when you add a small volume of your wort to your yeast and when that is actively fermenting pitch it into your batch.

We tend to use and see the term "Yeast Starter" applied to what is actually "Yeast Propagation". It's the deliberate growth in number of yeast cells.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/5/17)

Yeast starter = mini wort.


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## shacked (17/5/17)

From my experience with hefeweizen and wheat beer yeasts (I've tried WLP300, 320 and 351), I've always got really mixed results from repitching from slurry. For example, one repitch of WLP320 ended up being a little bland and quite clear. I've since moved to the build a 'bigger than required' starter model and have had great results.

I've also had this experience with other less (or low) flocculating yeasts like WLP644 (aka "fake brett") but have happily reused slurry from other ale strains: english, american, 'australian', belgians / saison plus a range of lager yeasts.

I'd be interested to understand if this is just me or if there is some factor that is driving this. Could it be that it's only the more flocculant bits/parts of the hefe yeast that end up in the slurry while the balance stays in suspension?


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## Parks (17/5/17)

shacked said:


> Could it be that it's only the more flocculant bits/parts of the hefe yeast that end up in the slurry while the balance stays in suspension?


I would say undoubtedly, yes. You're naturally selecting the more flocculant yeast which will be a big problem if you don't cold crash for a while before removing beer from primary.


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## koolkuna (30/6/17)

Great post. What size flask do you do you pitch your 1.5 litre H2O/ DME / Yeast mix in ?? I've been looking on the grain and grape site for a purchase. I plan to place my flask on top of my espresso machine and shake every time I walk past. Happy Days


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