# Bottling Wine In Glass Beer Bottles?



## Chookers (15/5/11)

Just want to get some opinion and thoughts on bottling home made wine in glass beer bottles (long necks) and sealing with bench capper.


Is this okay, will it impact the flavour of the wine, will the amber glass have any affect on the wine, will it keep as long. etc..


and further more has anyone (or everyone) been doing this already, would love to hear your thoughts.

your wisdom and experience are mush appreciated.

Cheers
:icon_cheers:


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## Muggus (15/5/11)

Nothing wrong with crown seals or amber bottles on wine.
Crown seals are used to seal Champagne wines en tirage, and Champagnes are amongst the most acidic wines out there and spend a minimum of 15 months in contact with the seal, so there's no adverse affects from them.
As far as brown bottles go, I think (and correct me if i'm wrong) they're even better at keeping out UV than antique green bottles.

Unless you're making a sparkling, keep an eye on your free SO2 levels, pH and sparge the bottles with a bit of CO2 before bottling.


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## stephenkentucky (15/5/11)

Muggus said:


> Nothing wrong with crown seals or amber bottles on wine.
> Crown seals are used to seal Champagne wines en tirage, and Champagnes are amongst the most acidic wines out there and spend a minimum of 15 months in contact with the seal, so there's no adverse affects from them.
> As far as brown bottles go, I think (and correct me if i'm wrong) they're even better at keeping out UV than antique green bottles.
> 
> Unless you're making a sparkling, keep an eye on your free SO2 levels, pH and sparge the bottles with a bit of CO2 before bottling.


+1 to that, if anything amber bottles will retard UV damage and hold wine well, but it all depends on for how long, most crown seals have impenetrable (to Oxygen) seals so do not expect your wine to age as it would under cork or controlled gas exchange stelvin seal, otherwise I see no downsides.


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## Tim F (15/5/11)

We used some longnecks for our 09 merlot when we ran out of wine bottles, cracked one last week and it was perfect.


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## Muggus (15/5/11)

I think the one of the only problems (if you'd consider it a problem) with crown seals is that the wine does not age the same as opposed to cork. 
The slow oxidation you get from a cork, that ages the wine has been tried and tested for hundreds of years, and despite the unpredictable nature of cork, with wines that are worthy/require aging it's not to difficult to figure out how long it'll last. 
With closures with Stelvins, and crown seal, it's a bit of a different ball game, ie it takes longer and it's hard to be sure HOW much longer. 

Just for an example that I came across at last years Hunter Valley Wine show, in the public tastings; 
Tyrells Vat 1 Semillon, the bench mark for Hunter Sem really, I tried 3 different vintages
2010 (Stelvin) - Colour of water, faint tinge of green; searingly acidic, ridiculous length, lots of citrus and hay.
2000 (Stelvin) - Almost the bloody same as the 2010! Colour just a touch golder, but still very youthful, as is the acid, racy!
1999 (Cork) - Verging on gold. Taking on secondary aged characters of vanilla and toast combine with citrus lime characters, acid provides length and still youthful but nothing compared to the previous wines.
Needless to say, i'd be a bit pissed off waiting 10 years for my Semillon to start developing aged characters to find it hadn't changed!


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## thelastspud (15/5/11)

Muggus said:


> Needless to say, i'd be a bit pissed off waiting 10 years for my Semillon to start developing aged characters to find it hadn't changed!



So what if you cracked it open after 6 months or so and recapped? 
Would that be too much oxygen ?

They grow a lot of muscatel around here and they should be ready soon, so i'm planning on chucking a wine together.
might chuck some raisins in as well. Its what they do here or so I'm told.


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## Muggus (15/5/11)

Bradley said:


> So what if you cracked it open after 6 months or so and recapped?
> Would that be too much oxygen ?


I think the key to aging is a VERY slow oxidation, little by little.
Sure, a good belt of air helps when opening a bottle of wine, especially an older one, but from there on in it's a rather steep slope to decline.
Plus...can you imagine individually opening and recapping 300 bottles (a barrique worth) of wine!?


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## thelastspud (15/5/11)

Yeah I guess you're right.
They must use some type of machine to uncap champagne bottles and cork them, though.


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## Muggus (15/5/11)

Bradley said:


> Yeah I guess you're right.
> They must use some type of machine to uncap champagne bottles and cork them, though.


Yep.
What happens is the bottles face cap down and the sediment eventually falls down, over time.
The machine freezes the first couple of centrimetres of the neck, then removes the cap which blows out all of the sediment and a bit of liquid.
After that they're topped up with a bit more wine and a cork is forced in, along with the cage and capsule.
Takes very little time at all...with a machine. By hand, it gets messy!


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## Tim F (16/5/11)

Bradley said:


> So what if you cracked it open after 6 months or so and recapped?
> Would that be too much oxygen ?
> 
> They grow a lot of muscatel around here and they should be ready soon, so i'm planning on chucking a wine together.
> might chuck some raisins in as well. Its what they do here or so I'm told.



Dunno about the raisins but my muscat from this year is starting to taste awesome!


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## thelastspud (16/5/11)

Muggus said:


> 2010 (Stelvin) - Colour of water, faint tinge of green; searingly acidic, ridiculous length, lots of citrus and hay.



I had to look up length on a wine page


> How long the total flavour lasts in the back of the throat after swallowing. Counted in time-seconds. Ten seconds is good, fifteen is great, twenty is superb. Almost a synonym for "finish", as in "this is a wine with an long, extraordinary finish".



So did you mean the taste went away really fast or stuck around for a long time?
Some interesting terms and words here
link


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## Muggus (16/5/11)

Bradley said:


> I had to look up length on a wine page
> 
> 
> So did you mean the taste went away really fast or stuck around for a long time?
> ...


Yeah the flavour and acidity stuck around in the mouth...good length. In reds tannins tend to aid with the length of the wine.

Some great terms in wine tasting! If you didn't know any better, you'd swear we were talking about something else... B)


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## Chookers (16/5/11)

I do have some corks and a corker (as pictured) that I have never used, it didnt come with instructions, so I would'nt know how to use it anyway. But I am sure the corks will fit the average long neck beer bottle. 

I tried to use the corker once and the cork got stuck and once I got the cork unstuck I did'nt want to use it again.. kind of affraid it will break the necks of the bottles... anyone used a corker like this, had good/bad experience???? would like to know how good they work and if they break bottles.

I got some Pear wine Im wanting to bottle soon, so I wanted to decide on how Im going to seal them, I have lots of beer bottles and green wine bottles.


:icon_cheers: :icon_cheers:


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## Mayor of Mildura (16/5/11)

Chookers said:


> I do have some corks and a corker (as pictured) that I have never used, it didnt come with instructions, so I would'nt know how to use it anyway. But I am sure the corks will fit the average long neck beer bottle.
> 
> I tried to use the corker once and the cork got stuck and once I got the cork unstuck I did'nt want to use it again.. kind of affraid it will break the necks of the bottles... anyone used a corker like this, had good/bad experience???? would like to know how good they work and if they break bottles.
> 
> ...


That is an absolute corker corker. Sorry dad joke. couldn't help myself. I haven't even had a beer yet.


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## Muggus (16/5/11)

Chookers said:


> I do have some corks and a corker (as pictured) that I have never used, it didnt come with instructions, so I would'nt know how to use it anyway. But I am sure the corks will fit the average long neck beer bottle.
> 
> I tried to use the corker once and the cork got stuck and once I got the cork unstuck I did'nt want to use it again.. kind of affraid it will break the necks of the bottles... anyone used a corker like this, had good/bad experience???? would like to know how good they work and if they break bottles.
> 
> ...


The problem you may come across corking with beer bottles is the width and length of the neck. 
You'll notice that the neck of wine bottles generally are straight for a few centrimetres before bowing outwards, and the cork fits snuggly in there and avoids air getting in. Beer bottles probably won't offer as good a seal.

As far as the hand corker goes, you open the arms up, insert a cork into the slot (ideally after soaking it in a SO2/water solution), and bring the arms down after aligning it with the top of the bottle. They work reasonably well, time consuming though!


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## Airgead (17/5/11)

You won't get a seal with a cork in a beer bottle. They are just the wrong shape. Belgian beer bottles that have a cork closure are a different beast but I'm assuming you are talking about a regular longneck here.

If you want to bottle in beer bottles you will need to use crown seals. Yes they do age differently. I have done side by sides. Crown seals age much slower. Lets be honest though, there are so many factors that affect wine aging that we homebrewers have absolutely no control over (unless we work in a winery as our day job) that its really not going to make much difference.

I bottle into beer bottles all the time when I run out of wine bottles and the results are generally very good. Those times they aren't its the fault of the wine not the closure.

Cheers
Dave


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## manticle (17/5/11)

stephenkentucky said:


> +1 to that, if anything amber bottles will retard UV damage and hold wine well, but it all depends on for how long, most crown seals have impenetrable (to Oxygen) seals so do not expect your wine to age as it would under cork or controlled gas exchange stelvin seal, otherwise I see no downsides.



So if one were to make wine with no added sulphites, these would be a good bet to slow oxidation?


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## stephenkentucky (17/5/11)

manticle said:


> So if one were to make wine with no added sulphites, these would be a good bet to slow oxidation?


Not sure you are onto a good idea here, not adding sulphites (by which I assume you mean SO2) is ok but the main aim is to achieve a controllable infusion of oxygen, particularly with reds, the use of an anti oxidant is one means of maintaining that control, most anti-oxidants SO2 being one slowly break down with time and lose some or all of their efficacy, the idea being that by then all potential oxygen except that which is provided by controlled leakage either via cork or permeable stelvin liner is absorbed and contributed to the ageing process. There is a new anti oxidant which is both effective and adds to mouthfeel of the finished wine it is called tannin TI by Vasson laboratories in France it is the extracted tannin from green tea, a very good and trusted natural anti oxident. It is distributed by WineQuip and is an anti oxidant which does not have some of the disadvantages of SO2, it does not cause allergies, and is not dangerous to asthmatics, I have been using it in our wines for 2 years and can say that I think it is one of the best wine products I have ever used. The oxygen in your headspace should be slowly incorporated into the wine initially through the need for the gas to equalise pressure with that in suspension, in much the same way as CO2 is held in a fragile suspension in beer. the anti oxidant will help to control the molecular integration of the oxygen atoms to form long chain molecules which contribute to the ageing flavour development of the wine over time. The long chain molecules contribute complexity and depth to the wine.


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## manticle (17/5/11)

Very interesting. Good to know about the tannin TI which sounds like the best solution.


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## Airgead (17/5/11)

stephenkentucky said:


> There is a new anti oxidant which is both effective and adds to mouthfeel of the finished wine it is called tannin TI by Vasson laboratories in France it is the extracted tannin from green tea, a very good and trusted natural anti oxident. It is distributed by WineQuip and is an anti oxidant which does not have some of the disadvantages of SO2, it does not cause allergies, and is not dangerous to asthmatics, I have been using it in our wines for 2 years and can say that I think it is one of the best wine products I have ever used.



That TanninTi sounds good. I can't use SO2 because my wife is highly allergic. I'll have to give that a go.

Cheers
Dave


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## Tim F (17/5/11)

Awesome info Stephen, very interested to give that a go. I thought part of the reason for using SO2 was to retard the growth of wild yeast/other organisms on the grapes - if so how do you manage this without using SO2?


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