# star san mixing



## wereprawn (16/7/13)

hi all,
just received my star san.first time using it an I have a question regarding mixing the product.on the 4 oz bottle it says "1 oz to 5 gal of water".so to make up 1 ltr does .75 of a ml sound right ?or is my math as bad as my teachers said all those years ago ?it really didn't foam as much as I thought it would.being out by a factor of 10 would be something I would do.
any feedback on your mix rate would be great!

cheers!


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## roverfj1200 (16/7/13)

I use 1.5 ml per litre. I have a syringe I got from the chemist to measure it.

I hope that is the right ratio


Cheers.


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## djar007 (16/7/13)

3ml per litre is my mixing ratio.


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## Dan Pratt (16/7/13)

i use 1.5ml for 1 litre in a spray bottle. which after a while could be much stronger becuase the refill usually happens when about 200mls of starsan is still in the sprayer and i add another 1.5ml and water.


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## MashPaddler (16/7/13)

28ml to an ounce, 5 gallons is 19L (well 18.9 but near enough). 

So 28ml / 19L = 1.47ml per litre of water.


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## jammer (16/7/13)

1.5 ml to a litre. 
I usually mix up a batch in an empty fermenting vessel. 
15ml in 10litres.


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## manticle (16/7/13)

1.5 per litre or in my case 0.75 per 500 ml.
Saniclean is a different mixing ratio to starsan but is in a similar bottle and oprates on identical principle so don't confuse the two.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (16/7/13)

No science here - just a bit in a container and slush and spray away. Bottle is still half full 2 years on ..
cheers
BBB
662


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## donburke (16/7/13)

manticle said:


> 1.5 per litre or in my case 0.75 per 100 ml.
> Saniclean is a different mixing ratio to starsan but is in a similar bottle and oprates on identical principle so don't confuse the two.


i use saniclean at 2.5- 3ml/litre, which i thought was the recommended ratio, or have i not been doing it according to manufacturers recommendation ?


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## wereprawn (16/7/13)

thanks,
I will add a bit more to my spray bottle.i bought a syringe today for the star san.(was thinking"how the the bloody hell do I measure such a small amount").so I will drop another .8 of a mil in all should be good.
thanks for the info all.


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## nu_brew (16/7/13)

Yeah converts to 1.6ml per litre by my reckoning. 

I wrote this on the bottle recently with a sharpie because I keep forgetting and have to look up again and again. 

1.5 sounds near enough. 

I get my 1.6 by adding 8 ml (with a 10ml syringe) to 5litres of water. Then use and reuse until I need more (several brew/bottling days)


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## WarmBeer (16/7/13)

One of the guys from 5star, the makers of Starsan did an interview on Basic Brewing Radio about why the ratio is important. Starsan kills bugs due to pH, get it too low it's not as effective, get it too high it's not as effective.

Link to mp3 of podcast

Edit: Added link


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## manticle (16/7/13)

donburke said:


> i use saniclean at 2.5- 3ml/litre, which i thought was the recommended ratio, or have i not been doing it according to manufacturers recommendation ?


Sounds about right to me. As I said - starsan at 1.5mL/1L, saniclean at a higher ratio.


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## Edak (16/7/13)

I use the 5ml level on the bottle and mix with 3L water, reuse as much as possible, dump some into spray bottles and usually store a few litres in a spare fermenter.


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## brewologist (16/7/13)

A little off topic but is everyone using tap water to mix with their starsan?

I've read somewhere before that it doesn't last that long (ph might drop or something) using tap water and
distilled water will provide a longer shelf life once its mixed up.

True or False.

I usually mix up 10L for brew day then chuck it.


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## Mzungu (16/7/13)

I use tap water and mix what I need on the day. I have also read to use distilled water to keep it good. The left overs a couple days later is pretty cloudy from tap water so I just throw it. I probably use 10l on brew day using it on keg/fv/bits and bobs


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## manticle (16/7/13)

Wow 10 L? I thought I was pretty liberal but I'd be lucky to use 2. I use tap water and mix in 500mL bottle as needed but it is a contact sanitiser so spray mist or small dose shaken around should be sufficient. I use boiling water a lot before starsanning to exercise extra caution.


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## brewologist (16/7/13)

Yep 10L

I think I'm paranoid about ruining my beer due to infection.

Never had an infection.

Well i did once when I was a uni student. There wasn't much that was sanitary in that share house though


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## dicko (16/7/13)

If you mix it too strong then it is no longer "no rinse".
The label rate is the correct mix. I mix 3 ml in 2 litres of RO water. 1.5 ml per litre.

Cheers


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## manticle (16/7/13)

donburke said:


> i use saniclean at 2.5- 3ml/litre, which i thought was the recommended ratio, or have i not been doing it according to manufacturers recommendation ?


Also typo, now edited. 0.75 mL starsan per 500 mL water


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## tavas (17/7/13)

brewologist said:


> A little off topic but is everyone using tap water to mix with their starsan?
> 
> I've read somewhere before that it doesn't last that long (ph might drop or something) using tap water and
> distilled water will provide a longer shelf life once its mixed up.
> ...


I use a small RO plant to make 20l of distilled water and re-use that until it goes cloudy. It might last me 6 months before I need to chuck it. Thirstyboy mentioned once thaty cloudy doesn't necessarily mean its no good. Starsan works on pH so would be worth checking the pH before chucking it.

And no, never had an infection since I started using Starsan this way.


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## MaltyHops (17/7/13)

WarmBeer said:


> One of the guys from 5star, the makers of Starsan did an interview on Basic Brewing Radio about why the ratio is important. Starsan kills bugs due to pH, *get it too low it's not as effective*, get it too high it's not as effective.
> 
> Link to mp3 of podcast
> 
> Edit: Added link


I tried and couldn't find in the podcast where the 5star guy actually says getting the pH too low by, say, using more starsan than the recommended dilution rate makes it no longer effective at killing bugs. Maybe it wouldn't be any more effective by using too much but just a waste?

I'm interested in this since if starsan only works in a narrow pH band around pH 3, or works for pH 3 and lower - it would be more forgiving to err on the using a bit more than needed side, or we have to use exactly the recommended dilution rate.


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## vonromanz (17/7/13)

Hi,

Travis, do you make distilled water from RO water or are you assuming distilled and RO water is the same thing? Distilled water does not contain any minerals, where with RO water some minerals stay, not much though. I think that is why 5Star recommends using distilled water if you want to make up a bulk solution.

The podcast Warmbeer recommended pretty much explains everything we as homebrewers need to know on how to use Starsan.

Cheers


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## vonromanz (17/7/13)

Starsan is an anionic acid detergent, as he said in the podcast. A disadvantage of these sanatisers is a close defined pH range of activity (pH 2-3). So, I can only assume since it contains phosphoric acid, the more you add the lower the pH will get, making it less effective.


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## jammer (17/7/13)

Tap water is fine. 
It'll go cloudy, it's still fine. 
It kills with low ph. 
I use it in spray and in fv for months. 
As long as ph is around 2.5 you are all good. 

But I guess you use so little, you can afford to be liberal


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## Yob (17/7/13)

Spare bunnings Fermenter, mix 30ml into 20lt at a time with tap water, always some on hand for whatever purpose


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## Black Devil Dog (17/7/13)

I have a 500ml spray bottle filled with cooled boiled water, that has .75ml Starsan mixed into it. I keep that in the fridge. I use that to spray work area, sink etc.

On brew day I mix 1.5ml with 1 litre tap water into a jug that I use to pour into bottles, kegs, fermenter, etc, swish around a bit then pour back into the jug and keep using the same mix to wash hands and other bits.


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## DU99 (17/7/13)

i got a m/t 20litre cube from work(distilled water)and make a batch in that.even filled my spray bottle from the same cube


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## JDW81 (17/7/13)

MaltyHops said:


> I tried and couldn't find in the podcast where the 5star guy actually says getting the pH too low by, say, using more starsan than the recommended dilution rate makes it no longer effective at killing bugs. Maybe it wouldn't be any more effective by using too much but just a waste?
> 
> I'm interested in this since if starsan only works in a narrow pH band around pH 3, or works for pH 3 and lower - it would be more forgiving to err on the using a bit more than needed side, or we have to use exactly the recommended dilution rate.


I was wondering this too. My chemistry isn't awesome but I don't see how a lower pH would make it less effective at doing it's job. I can see how lowering the pH wouldn't make it any more effective, but can't see how the efficacy would drop. 

Hopefully one of the chemistry gurus can shed some light on it.


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## tavas (17/7/13)

vonromanz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Travis, do you make distilled water from RO water or are you assuming distilled and RO water is the same thing? Distilled water does not contain any minerals, where with RO water some minerals stay, not much though. I think that is why 5Star recommends using distilled water if you want to make up a bulk solution.
> 
> ...


My RO plant has a de-mineralising filter on it so it is as near as possible to distilled. The amount of minerals left would be bugger all but yeah it isn't true distilled water.


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## mosto (17/7/13)

128 oz to a gallon, so 5 gallons = 640 oz, therefore mixing ratio is 640:1 water to starsan.

So 1000ml / 640 = 1.56ml per litre


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## jammer (17/7/13)

I think we have established 1.5 ml a litre. 
You can measure 1.56ml. 

I don't think it gets any less effective at higher rates.... But the important thing is it stops 
Being no rinse!


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## citizensnips (17/7/13)

Just a question, where do you get a syringe without looking like a fan of persian rugs


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## mosto (17/7/13)

jammer said:


> I think we have established 1.5 ml a litre.
> You can measure 1.56ml.
> 
> I don't think it gets any less effective at higher rates.... But the important thing is it stops
> Being no rinse!


Sorry, just thought I'd put some mathematically basis to it rather than "Well, I just use 1.5ml..."

As for the 1.56, if the worst thing that happens to you this week is someone quoted to two decimal places instead of one...it probably hasn't been a bad week


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## dicko (17/7/13)

Here you go mate..50 of 'em for under 20 bucks. You could share with others or do a bulk buy h34r: 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50-x-1ml-Terumo-INSULIN-Syringes-Slip-Tip-Syringe-only-No-Hypodermic-Needle-/121054188901?pt=AU_Medical_Special_Needs&hash=item1c2f645565

The 1ml ones will let you measure small quantities easier than say a 50 ml one but you can always make up a larger quantity if you only use a medicine measure cup etc.

I use the 1 ml syringes for acid adjustments to the mash so they are handy for mixing Starsan

Cheers


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