# First Weizen, Need Help



## SJW (21/12/07)

I am planning my first Weizen brew using the WB-06, and was after some ideas on a mash shedule. I was thinking of a simple double infusion with 30mins at 52, 30 mins at 62 and 30 mins at 72. 
Grain bill is:

3000.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 60.00 % 
2000.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 40.00 % 
30.00 gm Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 14.0 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 

I understand Zwickle is an authority on this topic and a link to his famous Weizen would be appreciated.

I just want to keep it simple for my first crack so any pit falls I should be aware of? Should I be using rice hulls in the mash? Should I be mashing this cooler?

Steve


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## Whistlingjack (21/12/07)

Looks good, SJW

The protein rest is a good idea, though I usually don't bother. The wheat proteins give the beer is cloudy appearance, along with the suspended yeast. Oh, and don't add whirfloc.

Depending on your equipment, rice hulls should not be necessary. I've used up to 75% wheat and never got stuck.

Also, adjust your efficiency for wheat beer, you may not get the same as barley malt.

One other thing. I add some caramunich III, about 2.5%, to give a bit of colour and some malt flavour. The aim is to mash "thin" but I like a bit of body.

WJ

PS Zwickel doesn't like top fermented beers...


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## floppinab (21/12/07)

Whistlingjack said:


> Oh, and don't add whirfloc.



Why not???


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## tangent (21/12/07)

i'd lower your first infusion by 10C
i don't bother with a protein rest, as WJ suggests - cloudy weizens are OK (you can drop the coagulant as well if you like), but I like an acid rest to really pump out the clove. Depends what you like in a weizen, girly beez neez or clovey German weizen.


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## Whistlingjack (21/12/07)

floppinab said:


> Why not???



Whirfloc helps to coagulate the proteins during the boil. In weizen, you want these in your beer.

WJ


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## therook (21/12/07)

SJW said:


> I am planning my first Weizen brew using the WB-06, and was after some ideas on a mash shedule. I was thinking of a simple double infusion with 30mins at 52, 30 mins at 62 and 30 mins at 72.
> Grain bill is:
> 
> 3000.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 60.00 %
> ...



Steve,

Post 128 of this thread.

Link

Rook


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## warrenlw63 (21/12/07)

I'm with Tangent a F/acid rest is a really good idea for a Weissbier. OTOH the WB-06 yeast is a virtual clove machine. Maybe bypass it as others have said and just go for single temp.

Recipe looks a good starting point Steve.

Warren -


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## SJW (21/12/07)

Yes, I might add some Munich or Cara III for a bit of colour and body too.

Steve


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## Lukes (21/12/07)

Steve,
If you would like to make it with an Fer acid rest here is a link to the rec from the Weyermann web site for
*Johann Baptist Weibier (JBW)* (since you are using 60% of that lovely plump Weyermann wheat malt).

I have done this (and posted this link before) using infusions and the Aussie malt added just for the last 2 steps what makes the water additions easier.
Just skip on thru the 50 step.
No Dec* = *no scars *  *but a longer mash & slow constant juggling of water additions.
Have fun.

- Luke

It's the season....


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## Stuster (21/12/07)

tangent said:


> but I like an acid rest to really pump out the clove. Depends what you like in a weizen, girly beez neez or clovey German weizen.



Have you tried an acid rest with the dry yeast? As warren says, it's pretty clovey all on its one. I made my wheat with just a single infusion and there's heaps of clove, not much banana (fermented around 20C). Just what I wanted. I used a little Munich for a little more oomph.


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## bconnery (21/12/07)

I made this recently, using a similar double infusion mash schedule (I don't have the exact temps to hand but it looked pretty similar...)
It was the base for a strawberry wheat but I bottled a couple from the weizen base and it was a great summer BBQ beer...
I have previously used a single infusion and the base beer was not as good as this one. I will be doing this for my wheats from now own so I would say go for it...

2600.00 gm Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 59.77 % 
1000.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 22.99 % 
700.00 gm Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 16.09 % 
50.00 gm Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) Grain 1.15 % 
35.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.20 %] (60 min)Hops 9.4 IBU 
20.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.20 %] (30 min)Hops 4.1 IBU 
4.00 kg Strawberry (Secondary 7.0 days) Misc 
1 Pkgs Safwheat (DCL Yeast #WB06) Yeast-Wheat


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## tangent (21/12/07)

actually, my 1st use of the dry wheat yeast, i used my usual acid rest but probably could have cut it down to 10 mins. It's freakin' clovey, but I like it like that.


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## SJW (21/12/07)

Ok for what its worth this is what I have come up with. Dont ask why I chose this mash shedule but I just want to keep it simple.

56 Weizen 
Bavarian Weizen (Weissbier) 


Type: All Grain
Date: 2/02/2010 
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 32.05 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3500.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 61.40 % 
2000.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 35.09 % 
200.00 gm Caramunich III (Weyermann) (139.9 EBC) Grain 3.51 % 
30.00 gm Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 13.7 IBU 
1 Pkgs Weizen (Fermentis #WB-06) Yeast-Wheat 

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.96 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 % 
Bitterness: 13.7 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l 
Est Color: 12.6 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Double Infusion, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
30 min Protein Rest Add 10.00 L of water at 47.5 C 43.0 C 
60 min Saccrification Add 10.00 L of water at 87.3 C 63.0 C


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## Screwtop (21/12/07)

Steve, if you want to keep it simple for your first Weizen, then the Zwickel Weizen might not be the best due to the mash schedule. Maybe better off trying a single infusion mash, maybe even a Bavarian Style.



> Depends what you like in a weizen, girly beez neez or clovey German weizen.


 :lol: 


Jamil Zainasheff's simple recipe below.


Recipe: JS - Bavarian Weizen
Style: Bavarian Weizen
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 31.35 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 2.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 12.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 83.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.40 kg Pilsener (1.0 SRM) Grain 50.00 % 
2.40 kg Wheat Malt (2.0 SRM) Grain 50.00 % 
25.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfruh [4.60 %] (60 min)Hops 12.0 IBU 
1 Pkgs WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen (2L Starter) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Step
Total Grain Weight: 4.80 kg
----------------------------
Single Step
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Conversion step Add 15.00 L of water at 74.5 C 67.0 C 
10 min Mash out Heat to 77.0 C over 20 min 77.0 C 

Sparge
----------------------------


Sparge water: 22.66 L 
Sparge Temperature: 89.0 C


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## SJW (21/12/07)

Good idea Screwtop. I might just go the single infusion. But might go 64 degC for 60 then mashout. At least this will give me a good baseline for future cracks at this.

Steve


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## tangent (21/12/07)

good idea
you'll still get clove with that yeast anyway, and i still think for this kind of beer, a protein rest is a waste of time.


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## SJW (21/12/07)

Tangent, I was talking to Mark today (MHB) who said if I do a 90min mash at 65 all the enzymes will do their thing anyway and I would not end up with a beer to far off the mark.

Steve


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## PostModern (21/12/07)

My recipe is simple. Half a bucket of pale wheat malt, half a bucket of pils malt. Whack it in the tun with hot water. Adjust temp with immersion heater or cold water until 64C is achieved. Mash for an hour while heating sparge water. Recirculate a couple litres, then run into kettle. Bitter ~16IBU with a noble hop. Ferment, serve. Easy beer, no need to agonise over it.


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## hughman666 (21/12/07)

PostModern said:


> My recipe is simple. Half a bucket of pale wheat malt, half a bucket of pils malt. Whack it in the tun with hot water. Adjust temp with immersion heater or cold water until 64C is achieved. Mash for an hour while heating sparge water. Recirculate a couple litres, then run into kettle. Bitter ~16IBU with a noble hop. Ferment, serve. Easy beer, no need to agonise over it.




thats exactly right, don't overthink these ones they're made all the better by their simplicity

i just go for approx 50/50 wheat/pils

single temp mash at approx 64c-66c for 60 mins

10g pacific hallertau @ 60 mins
10g pacific hallertau @ 10 mins

pitch a good yeast (personally i'll stick with 3068)

ferment at 24c for 5-7 days and into the keg!

enjoy!


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## SJW (22/12/07)

Thanks boys, Reading too much into all the tech talk. I got the impression that a good wheat beer must have been a real trick to get spot on. But the last 2 posts confirm what I hoped. KISS.

STEVE


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## Darren (23/12/07)

PostModern said:


> My recipe is simple. Half a bucket of pale wheat malt, half a bucket of pils malt. Whack it in the tun with hot water. Adjust temp with immersion heater or cold water until 64C is achieved. Mash for an hour while heating sparge water. Recirculate a couple litres, then run into kettle. Bitter ~16IBU with a noble hop. Ferment, serve. Easy beer, no need to agonise over it.




PostM, that is the of funniest posts I have read for a longtime.

Wheat beers can be so easy and also so difficult. Yeast, not malt makes a wheat (banana, clove ,bubblegum) not the long and convoluted malt rests. Little to no hop is best.

I must also point out that the recent mass-introduction of single strains of dry-yeast will severely limit brewers ability to produce a good wheat beer. This also applies to production of great homebrew with dry lager and ale yeast. With no affiliation, I support the pure liquid culture.


cheers

Darren


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## Stuster (23/12/07)

Darren said:


> I must also point out that the recent mass-introduction of single strains of dry-yeast will severely limit brewers ability to produce a good wheat beer. This also applies to production of great homebrew with dry lager and ale yeast. With no affiliation, I support the pure liquid culture.



Got to admit that I'm confused here (guess I must be as dumb as you think I am, hey). Are you saying that dry yeasts are inferior because they are single strains (as are most liquid strains) or because they are not pure (no longer an issue)?

I like using both forms and have found that both work fine. There's so much more variety with liquid, but dry means you can get enough yeast cells without having to make a starter. And they're cheaper.


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## Darren (23/12/07)

Stuster said:


> Got to admit that I'm confused here (guess I must be as dumb as you think I am, hey). Are you saying that dry yeasts are inferior because they are single strains (as are most liquid strains) or because they are not pure (no longer an issue)?
> 
> I like using both forms and have found that both work fine. There's so much more variety with liquid, but dry means you can get enough yeast cells without having to make a starter. And they're cheaper.




Hey Stuster,

I am saying that the dry yeasts are inferior and only come in a few different strains. The problem will arise when the liquid yeast manufacturers have only a very small market. Could result in them shutting up shop and the end of variety.

cheers

Darren


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## warra48 (23/12/07)

Darren said:


> Hey Stuster,
> 
> I am saying that the dry yeasts are inferior and only come in a few different strains. The problem will arise when the liquid yeast manufacturers have only a very small market. Could result in them shutting up shop and the end of variety.
> 
> ...



I doubt the homebrew market is a big enough part of a yeast manufacturers business for it to be a make or break proposition for them. After all, the major part of their business is supply of commercial brewers, winemakers, bakers etc. 
I guess your point is whether they will continue to supply the homebrew market.
I also like liquid yeasts, (WLP001 is one of my favourites) as I believe they can give a better result, but IMHO they are not for novice brewers, for whom dry yeast is much easier and fool proof.
I have brewed 2 hefeweizens with the new dry wheat yeast, and 1 Pikantus clone on the yeast cake,and have had very good attenuation (the last hefe over 80% from 1052 to 1010). The one thing I am a little disappointed about is that there is not much in the way of banana or bubblegum. It seems liquid is still the way to go to chase those characters if that's what you are after.


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## Sammus (23/12/07)

re: the whirlfloc comment, I remember theres was a big thread about it that said YES use whirlfloc even in a hefe, since the haze in a hefe is yeast haze, not protein or chill haze.

I've been fingering through mosher's radical brewing as well who also recommends to add flour to the boil to get starch haze, which is, according to him, the correct haze (dunno the diff between this haze and others I've mentioned though... anyone care to comment?). 

I used whirlfloc in my saison's and both came out nice and cloudy as expected - if you use the right yeast you should be right, as they arent exactly great floccers.


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## 2brothers (23/12/07)

warra48 said:


> I doubt the homebrew market is a big enough part of a yeast manufacturers business for it to be a make or break proposition for them. After all, the major part of their business is supply of commercial brewers, winemakers, bakers etc.
> I guess your point is whether they will continue to supply the homebrew market.
> I also like liquid yeasts, (WLP001 is one of my favourites) as I believe they can give a better result, but IMHO they are not for novice brewers, for whom dry yeast is much easier and fool proof.
> I have brewed 2 hefeweizens with the new dry wheat yeast, and 1 Pikantus clone on the yeast cake,and have had very good attenuation (the last hefe over 80% from 1052 to 1010). The one thing I am a little disappointed about is that there is not much in the way of banana or bubblegum. It seems liquid is still the way to go to chase those characters if that's what you are after.




Hey Warra - you've got to watch that you don't over pitch when using dry yeast. I know that the fermentis/Saf dry yeast sachets are a lot more generous cell-count wise cf liquid yeast counterparts ... and over pitching will lead to reduced formation of esters - like the bananna / bubble gum characters you're after (assuming that you selected an appropriate strain in the fisrt place).


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## tangent (23/12/07)

i agree about the dry yeast having a higher cell count. pitching cold helps stress the yeast and produce the flavours you're after. Personally, I think 50% wheat is too little for my tastes. I prefer ~70%. I also prefer 3068 liquid yeast with an acid rest.
If you want a really easy wheat beer, buy a wort kit. 
DrGonzo won't make a beer without a decoction or direct heat stepped mash. 
Somewhere in between is probably where you'll end up. 
Simple is good, but I'll never be satisfied with the easiest way out. There's so many other options and variables that change your finished beer dramatically.


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## PostModern (23/12/07)

Simple works well for me with this style, although I think I'll try pitching 1/2 a sachet of WB-06 in my next batch. It definitely lacks the esters I liked in WLP300. Could be overpitching, could be a neutral strain. I let the last batch go up to 23C while fermenting and it still didn't make many esters. There is a trace of fruitiness there, but definitely not banana.

Darren, I agree it would be a shame if there were less varied strains available, but by the same token, I'm glad there are some good dry yeasts out there. Lately I have been getting precious little time to brew at all, the extra time needed for culturing starters and whatnot would mean I wouldn't be brewing at all. WB-06 is a decent yeast for the effort. I must have done something right to get around the severe limit it's imposed on my ability to brew. I will be looking at some fruitier Wyeast strains later in the season, tho.

My simple brewing method and simple yeast pitching have produced so far a couple of great weizens. With more time and possibly more interest in the stlye, I might start fiddling around the edges, but keeping it simple can create some fantastic beer, too.


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## tangent (23/12/07)

why make a starter when you want to underpitch with a wheat anyway?
just chuck it in and let it grow in the wort.


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## sah (23/12/07)

tangent said:


> why make a starter when you want to underpitch with a wheat anyway?
> just chuck it in and let it grow in the wort.



Because a scraping of yeast from a slant is underpitching to the extreme.


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## Whistlingjack (23/12/07)

Sammus said:


> re: the whirlfloc comment, I remember theres was a big thread about it that said YES use whirlfloc even in a hefe, since the haze in a hefe is yeast haze, not protein or chill haze.



Nothing to say you can't use it, but its wasting money when the cloudiness is acceptible for this style. But then...



> The high protein content of wheat impairs clarity in an unfiltered beer, although the level of haze is somewhat variable.



Source: BJCP Style Guidelines

WJ


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## SJW (23/12/07)

Interesting stuff. But on the dry v Liquid debate......... I have used both extensivly and always find myself being lazy and going back to dry yeast. With the S-189 Nottingham or Windsor and the WB-06 and making All Grain Beers its pretty hard to make a dud brew. I wont say Liquid is not the best but I always find myself resorting back to the dry stuff.
Anyway since I have gone over to a keg system and converted my little fermentation bar fridge, I am sick to death of not being able to ferment whenever I like. So in the new year sales I am after a chest freezer. I should of just bought one in the first place. But SWMBO was not too happy with my plans until I said I could have a dedicated tap for her Ginger Beer..........and the other 3 for me  Happy days. Anyone know where to get a nice newish chest freezer?

Steve


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## Adamt (23/12/07)

You missed the KMart special a month or so ago... 200L chest freezer for $300. Not sure if they'll do it again any time soon though, and with centrex going bust 6 months ago it's getting harder.


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## SJW (23/12/07)

> You missed the KMart special a month or so ago... 200L chest freezer for $300. Not sure if they'll do it again any time soon though, and with centrex going bust 6 months ago it's getting harder.



BITCH. I new I saw a cheap one NEW somewhere.


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## Whistlingjack (23/12/07)

I'll be looking for a freezer in the new year sales as well, but if you have the space as I have, maybe a coolroom would be the go. Thinking along these lines.

On the protein issue, I like the description of this beer as "liquid bread". The wheat proteins make it a nourishing and satisfying drink...  

Higher proteins also give the haze typical for this style but will affect flavour stability and shelf life. That means, drink it fresh and don't expect it to age well.

WJ


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## Adamt (24/12/07)

Just pitched my first liquid yeast into my first wheat, with my first decoction. Wort was reaaaal cloudy, had some crazy kind of gray sludge on top of my mash after sparging and my decoctions didnt give me the right temperature rests, but efficiency went up and everything seems to be normal... I hope! Pitched at 23, in the freezerator set at 19 with 3068.


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## Whistlingjack (24/12/07)

"Grey sludge" will be proteins from the wheat. No need to worry about this...

The wort will be more cloudy due to the wheat flour from the crush. 

This will also show up as the haze in the finished beer.

"Liquid bread"...gotta love this style...

WJ


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## Adamt (24/12/07)

Woke up this morning to a fermenter full of dead flat wort. I won't be a happy chappy if it doesnt fire!


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## Adamt (24/12/07)

Trying to increase it this morning until the yeast fires.. easy to raise the temperature in summer... but not when its 17C, windy and cloudy  The gods are laughing at me.


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## Paul H (24/12/07)

wally said:


> Adam,
> 
> Try bumping up your temp. a couple of degrees. 19C is too low. You won't get any "banana" at that temp.
> 
> Wally



I would humbly disagree, after reading Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff & John Palmer I made a hefe using WLP 300 based on the pitching temps suggested by JZ on page 192. JZ goes onto explain that it was suggested to him to ferment at 17C, he like myself was sceptical however as he found & I did 17C gives you a great hefe profile.


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## colinw (24/12/07)

Having just tried Paul's lovely weizen, made as described above, I'll second that advice.

It didn't have any of the other distracting flavours I have noticed in my own hefes, fermented at more like 21-22. Just a nice soft malt character, clove and banana, in near perfect balance. It could have been a commercial German example.


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## Ross (24/12/07)

Thanks Paul - Reckon I'll try my next WB-06 weizen the same way. I just brewed one at 22c+ & not that happy with some of the background flavours coming through.

Cheers Ross


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## PostModern (24/12/07)

Is there a rule of 30 or something for Weizens? Pitch at 13, ferment at 17?


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## Adamt (24/12/07)

Rule of 30 is for lagers I think.


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## milpod (24/12/07)

Adamt said:


> Rule of 30 is for lagers I think.



Wouldn't wont my lagers anywhere near 30........................but weizens,yes I definitely use the 30 rule.

Pitch at 12 and ferment at 18  

Apart from decocting,acid rest ect.I think it gives the yeast the best chance to do it's stuff 

Pitching at 12 stress the yeast to give wanted flavours,that may be missing from the mash profile


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## tangent (24/12/07)

check out the interview on Basic Brewing Radio about ester production in Weizens.
underpitch and pitch cold, then ramp the temp up once she starts firing away.
one of my favourite commercial weizens is fermented at 22C


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## Adamt (24/12/07)

Yeast has fired Wally, sitting about 20C. Nice thick white moussy krausen sitting about 1cm under the glad wrap.

Not sure where I read the rule of 30 was for lagers, I don't brew them anyway and maybe that's why! I'm getting too old for this...


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## milpod (24/12/07)

Never too old.Like Denny says,life begins at 60,1060 that is.
Not to shabby for a seppo.

Your "30" for lagers was probably cold conditioning times,or thats what i'd say


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## SJW (24/12/07)

I know I am going off topic again, but it my thread so I can do what I want.
Anyway, I am off to The Good Guys on Thursday as they have a Fisher & Pykel 160 litre chest freezer for $389 less for cash. It was just over 600mm wide and deep so I should get 4 cory's in easy. Cant wait.

Steve


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## Screwtop (24/12/07)

A lot of you may have seen my recent bitch about 3068. G&G sent me a real fresh pack which I used in a Bavarian Hefe Weizen. Fermentation was much slower that I'd experienced with this yeast in the past at 22C. Still after nearly 2 weeks it finished at 1.012. Disappointing banana ester, and you know the scuttle re drinking weizens young and fresh. Well I took a party keg of this to the wife's work party last week were everyone was saying how weird it was for a beer to have a banana aroma, but in a good way. This week it occupies Tap #1 as it has really become the beer I wanted. So that's a lesson learn't, in the past this yeast has generated banana and bubblegum esters very early, almost from the first draft.

Screwy


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## milpod (24/12/07)

Screwtop,did you actually ferment at 18?Or was it 20?.It makes a massive difference in MHO

Love 3068

Gotta stress your yeast


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## Screwtop (24/12/07)

milpod said:


> Screwtop,did you actually ferment at 18?Or was it 20?.It makes a massive difference in MHO
> 
> Love 3068
> 
> Gotta stress your yeast




Would be interested to know what massive difference you have found. Have fermented this yeast from 17C to 22C over 2 years and 14 batches to date using fresh yeast and splits, also starter and no starter. 

Screwy


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## milpod (25/12/07)

And what was the mash profile?

And what phenolics were you chasing.

And if you fermerted over such a wide range,did you taste a difference.

What taste were you,after?

Dont kill me.cause I offered some quick tips

But obviously you haven't got A HEFFE YOUR happy about.


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## Screwtop (25/12/07)

milpod said:


> Dont kill me.cause I offered some quick tips



Please, no offence intended, am genuinely interested in anyones tips using this yeast as it's a favourite . And yes I've made about 4 that I've been very happy with. Have had difficulty manipulating the aroma profile of this yeast, using a variety of pitch and fermentation temps and pitch rates so am very interested to hear of your experiences. 

Only use 2 mash profiles, for weizens here a single 65 for Bav Hefe's and 42, 62, 72 for dry North German Weizens (use 06 yeast for them). Malt bill is 40% Pils with a little bit of Munich or Vienna.


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## Screwtop (26/12/07)

Bump


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## Weizguy (26/12/07)

G'day Steve (SJW) and wheatie thread followers. :icon_cheers: 

I'm here to share some info on my latest hefeweizens. My Schneider weisse clone, which was crowned best wheat at the Bitter and Twisted festival, has been in the keg for 21 days and tastes like the best imported/bottled Schneider I ever tasted (sampled last night). Pretty easy recipe, which I'll post in the recipe database later. OK?

And the latest hefe, made with yeast salvaged from a Potter's weizen (presumed W3068) and 3.2kg of Muntons wheat DME, 15g of Target at 11% (boil 60 min) and 10g of 2.5% Saaz at 5 min. Pitch when cool (on 24/12) with a just-finished 500ml culture of the yeast (in wheat DME) and a pinch of yeast nutrient (in the wort, not the culture). 24 litre batch, pitched at 22C, agitated with a long spoon, and then popped into the fridge, with controller set to 18C. Fermentor temp/ stick-on thermometer shows 20C about 14 hours later and 18C last night. Of course it had popped the clip-on lid off the 30l fermentor and spewed krausen all through the old fridge. Being a caring brewer, I had relieved the batch of a sample of wort into a hydrometer flask at the time of pitching, covered it and sat it on my kitchen sink. The brew in the flask had done the same thing as the one in the fridge (overflowed with enthusiasm). I sampled the beer in the flask and I could detect some (quite a bit, actually) banana and passionfruit. It reminded me of JS Colonial wheat, and that pleased me considerably.
Hmmm, shame that I'm sharing this batch, but my mate's a good bloke and he *is* paying for the ingredients $$.  

BTW, the rule of 30 is in the Warner book about German Wheat Beers, and the grey gelatinous muck in your mash tun after sparging is cross-linked proteins called "tieg".

Beerz
Les


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## SJW (28/12/07)

Could I use Saaz in a Wheat beer? I have some open and at 2.5 A/A I would need about 50g.


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## devo (28/12/07)

I've been hooking into my first (AG) weizen using the recipe hughman666 posted on the AHB recipe page but used the craftbrewer weizen yeast and I'm extremely happy with the results. Grain to brain in 8 days and fermented at 20 degree c.


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## Adamt (28/12/07)

No real reason (unless youre very style-anal) you couldnt use saaz, at 10-15IBU for bittering only you'd struggle to tell the difference amongst all the other weizen flavours.


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## Weizguy (28/12/07)

SJW said:


> Could I use Saaz in a Wheat beer? I have some open and at 2.5 A/A I would need about 50g.


Steve,

not only is it possible, it's favourable.

My fave wheat beer was a Saaz-hopped one for many years.

Just don't go too high with the bitterness and you'll be cheering.

Les


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## Screwtop (28/12/07)

Les the Weizguy said:


> G'day Steve (SJW) and wheatie thread followers. :icon_cheers:
> 
> I'm here to share some info on my latest hefeweizens. My Schneider weisse clone, which was crowned best wheat at the Bitter and Twisted festival, has been in the keg for 21 days and tastes like the best imported/bottled Schneider I ever tasted (sampled last night). Pretty easy recipe, which I'll post in the recipe database later. OK?
> 
> ...



Thanks Les, great to hear what others are doing with wheaties and wheat yeast. Good to see another brewer who goes to so much bother to make "such a simple beer". Great Weizens are NOT easy to get right. It's all about yeast choice and fermentation with this beer style.

Screwy


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## SJW (10/1/08)

I went to the local to get my wheat and they only had Weyermann Dark Wheat. so this is the grain bill now.
I guess it will still be fine just a little darker, not much though.

#53 Weizen 
Bavarian Weizen (Weissbier) 


Type: All Grain
Date: 15/01/2008 
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 32.05 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3500.00 gm Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (13.8 EBC) Grain 61.40 % 
2000.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 35.09 % 
200.00 gm Caramunich III (Weyermann) (139.9 EBC) Grain 3.51 % 
50.00 gm Saaz [2.50 %] (60 min) Hops 12.7 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Weizen (Fermentis #WB-06) Yeast-Wheat 

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.96 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 % 
Bitterness: 12.7 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l 
Est Color: 18.2 EBC Color: Color


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## 0M39A (10/1/08)

meh, its just a dunkelweizen now


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## SJW (10/1/08)

I can't see it tasting too much diff for a Hefe anyway. The colour is now just over the BJCP guidlines for a Hefe. Might just have a bit more caramel/toast flavour?

Steve


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## geoffi (10/1/08)

Might look more like a Schneider or Maisels. They are both a bit darker than the norm.


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## tangent (10/1/08)

Les, how many of your weizens are extract based?


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## blackbock (10/1/08)

Interesting that so many homebrewers out there don't consider a protein rest necessary for a Weizen.

I and a couple of others will be headed into the other direction very shortly, with a triple-step protein rest planned with 10 mins at 45, 48 & 53. This is in addition to the two saccharification rests and mashout!


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## SJW (10/1/08)

> Interesting that so many homebrewers out there don't consider a protein rest necessary for a Weizen.


Would it make that much diff. to the final product?
Steve


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## Hargie (10/1/08)

SJW said:


> Would it make that much diff. to the final product?
> Steve



....yes....


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## Screwtop (10/1/08)

SJW said:


> Would it make that much diff. to the final product?
> Steve




Using the 42x20Min, 52x20min, 62x60min, 72x20min makes a great difference. BUT and there's always a but! The difference is hard to describe. Until you've made a single infusion Weizen on your own system and been able to try the step mashed version to compare it to you will not know/understand the difference. If I was making one for a comp I would definitely use the step process, for my own consumption, no I wouldn't take the extra time.



SJW said:


> Bavarian Weizen (Weissbier)



So Steve is it a Weizen (Wheat) or a Weisse (White)? Think it could actually end up a Dunkel (Dark) Weizen. One thing is for sure it will be tasty! Les is spot on with his advice re bittering hops. 

Screwy


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## mika (10/1/08)

> with 10 mins at 45, 48 & 53



? :unsure: 

I can understand the 45deg and the 53 deg, but what's with the 48 ? I can't see what it would give you.
With only a 10min rest at each temp, how are you planning on stepping the temp up ?

A Dunkelweizen is planned for after the move and I'm thinking a decoction would be a cool thing to try, still haven't got my head around it fully though.


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## Weizguy (10/1/08)

tangent said:


> Les, how many of your weizens are extract based?


Gee, not many these days, but my mate needed a quick fix... and I have made some excellent DME wheat beer before.

There have been several of my recipes in these wheat beer threads since I began posting.

As SJW said, the lhbs is running low on wheat malt and we were not looking at brewing a dunkelweizen.

Beerz
Les


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## geoffi (11/1/08)

Before I went AG I used to use the ESB paint tin kits. With the right yeast these make a ripper Weizen. So I think this style can really work well with extract. (APA is another that seems to work. Apart from that, I'm not convinced.)

As for the question of step mashing, Graham Sanders gave a good explanation of this on one of his Craftbrewer Radio shows recently, with a simple technique as well. Worth a listen.



Les the Weizguy said:


> Gee, not many these days, but my mate needed a quick fix... and I have made some excellent DME wheat beer before.
> 
> There have been several of my recipes in these wheat beer threads since I began posting.
> 
> ...


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