# Rye Malts - Who's Playing With Them Lately?



## Gigantorus

Hi All,

Have been really getting into a couple of different rye malts in he past few months. Mainly in concentrate and extract recipes.

I have used both Caramel Rye and Chocolate Rye. Have used a bit of Caramel Rye in pale ales and Imperial IPAs. But have particularly enjoyed using choc rye in an American Brown Ale (recipe attached). It adds such a nice dry bite to the malty dark flavours. Yes, it's not a typical style or a style in BJCP - but rye in an American Brown Ale is an amazing treat.

Anyone else been using rye malts in other types of recipes? If so, tell me how you have been using them? I'm always looking for something new to try them in.

Cheers,

Pete 

View attachment Spicy-Grizz-V4.pdf


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## Droopy Brew

Love Rye and often put it in Hoppy Ales- usually 10-20%. Keen to do a Rogginbier soon to with a heap of rye.

I havent however used any of the spec versions such as choc or caramel. Reading back on some posts from around 2010 there were quite a few unfavourable reports. be keen to hear more recent opinions though.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Rye is the devils spawn when sparging...


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Like you, I like the dry bite on the finish that rye seems to give. IMO this works well with spicy fruity hops (Ella, Vic Secret) which can tend to tip the beer towards sweetness otherwise.

As per DBS' comments, good control of lauter tun DP is important with rye: it lacks a husk and has lots of beta glucans.

I have a grand plan for a mash with one third sourdough rye bread and one third rye malt, to be called "Babette's Feast" (if you've seen the movie you'll understand why). I can't find any commercial sourdough that isn't too salty so I'm going to have to make my own. On the back burner for now, though anyone who has a good sourdough culture they are willing to share please PM me.


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## pajs

Fermenting out an ale now to highlight Northern Brewer, with rye & some amber in the mix. Smells very good indeed. I use rye a lot - sometimes for spice, sometimes for pushing up mouthfeel. Useful thing. A little bit in an Alt or Golden Ale goes all right.


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## yankinoz

Roasted rye develops a distinctive bite, apart from the rye spice. I've loved caramel rye in an APA and especially an oaked AIPA. The one time I tried chocolate rye I thought something had gone out of control: meh.


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## Camo6

Giving it a wide berth for a bit. Got a bit adventurous the last time I brewed and used 20% finely ground rye malt. I might as well have thrown a bag of Plaster of Paris in.
Worst bit is it's not the first time I've done it. Stupid is as stupid does.
Do love it in an apa or aipa.


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## jibba02

My rye ipa uses 20% rye run through the mill twice. Brewed it 4 times and almost 1 stuck sparge. 
Next brew I will use a couple of cups of rice hulls.


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## earle

I often use 35% with good effect. BIAB so goes ok without rice hulls but would be better with. Roggenbier and smoked rye farmhouse ale.


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## Gigantorus

I ended up dropping the amounts down a touch in the Rye American Brown Ale on the weekend. Was drinking the previous batch that I used 200g Choc Rye and 100g car rye and the rye spiciness was fairly solid. So dropped car re back to 300g and choc rye to 500g. Also tossed in 100g of CaraMunich3 and Belgium Special B to compensate. The wort tasted great. The FV is starting to bubble away this morning nicely.

I am also planning to do a Roggenbier as well soon. Like the idea of a nice rye'd up pale ale.

I only do extract brews so no real sparging problems for me. Yes, had seen a reference to adding rice hulls to loosen up the mix.

Cheers,

Pete


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## kaiserben

I made a Roggenbier just over a year ago. It had 51% rye malt. 

I scorched the crap out of the bottom of my Grainfather. So much so that the element safety kept cutting out. (But that might've been partially due to user error, because I stuffed up by not recirculating during the ramping up of temp between the protein rest and the main rest). 

I had to finish this batch via BIAB. That got very messy. I scorched that pot as well. The wort didn't flow very well through the bag. Spillage everywhere ...

Anyway - it ended up getting a "Highly Commended" at the 2015 NSW Comp. IMO it was a very challenging beer, not only to make but also to drink. I won't be rushing to make it again. 

I've been very wary of using rye since then, and have only done 4% in an IPA, and 3.7% caramel rye in a strong red ale that I've made a few times. Not had any issues whatsoever at those miniscule levels. It's probably time I got serious and made a RIPA.


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## Gigantorus

Re the Roggenbier style. This is BJCP's classification:


15D. Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)
*Aroma:* Light to moderate spicy rye aroma intermingled with light to moderate weizen yeast aromatics (spicy clove and fruity esters, either banana or citrus). Light noble hops are acceptable. Can have a somewhat acidic aroma from rye and yeast. No diacetyl.
*Appearance:* Light coppery-orange to very dark reddish or coppery-brown color. Large creamy off-white to tan head, quite dense and persistent (often thick and rocky). Cloudy, hazy appearance.
*Flavor:* Grainy, moderately-low to moderately-strong spicy rye flavor, often having a hearty flavor reminiscent of rye or pumpernickel bread. Medium to medium-low bitterness allows an initial malt sweetness (sometimes with a bit of caramel) to be tasted before yeast and rye character takes over. Low to moderate weizen yeast character (banana, clove, and sometimes citrus), although the balance can vary. Medium-dry, grainy finish with a tangy, lightly bitter (from rye) aftertaste. Low to moderate noble hop flavor acceptable, and can persist into aftertaste. No diacetyl.
*Mouthfeel:* Medium to medium-full body. High carbonation. Light tartness optional.
*Overall Impression:* A dunkelweizen made with rye rather than wheat, but with a greater body and light finishing hops.
*Comments:* American-style rye beers should be entered in the American Rye category (6D). Other traditional beer styles with enough rye added to give a noticeable rye character should be entered in the Specialty Beer category (23). Rye is a huskless grain and is difficult to mash, often resulting in a gummy mash texture that is prone to sticking. Rye has been characterized as having the most assertive flavor of all cereal grains. It is inappropriate to add caraway seeds to a roggenbier (as some American brewers do); the rye character is traditionally from the rye grain only.
*History:* A specialty beer originally brewed in Regensburg, Bavaria as a more distinctive variant of a dunkelweizen using malted rye instead of malted wheat.
*Ingredients:* Malted rye typically constitutes 50% or greater of the grist (some versions have 60-65% rye). Remainder of grist can include pale malt, Munich malt, wheat malt, crystal malt and/or small amounts of debittered dark malts for color adjustment. Weizen yeast provides distinctive banana esters and clove phenols. Light usage of noble hops in bitterness, flavor and aroma. Lower fermentation temperatures accentuate the clove character by suppressing ester formation. Decoction mash commonly used (as with weizenbiers).


*Vital Statistics*:

OG: 1.046 – 1.056

IBUs: 10 – 20

FG: 1.010 – 1.014

SRM: 14 – 19

ABV: 4.5 – 6%

*Commercial Examples:* Paulaner Roggen (formerly Thurn und Taxis, no longer imported into the US), Bürgerbräu Wolznacher Roggenbier


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## shacked

I love the stuff and brew with it all the time:

25% in an export stout.
20% in an IPA (pale plus a 3% to 5% light crystal).
20% in a saison (10% wheat, 70% pils).
Did a low gravity hoppy ale last week: 10% rye, 35% wheat, 55% MO.
10% in an APA (just switch out some base malt for rye).

With the hoppier beers, spicy hops seem to compliment the rye nicely. I've found columbus to be a good one for that.

Reman did a great Rye Bock in the recent NSW case swap.

It was a massive PITA when I used to do boils in my electric crown urn. No issues with my gas set up.


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## fungrel

shacked said:


> I love the stuff and brew with it all the time:
> 
> 25% in an export stout.
> 20% in an IPA (pale plus a 3% to 5% light crystal).
> 20% in a saison (10% wheat, 70% pils).
> Did a low gravity hoppy ale last week: 10% rye, 35% wheat, 55% MO.
> 10% in an APA (just switch out some base malt for rye).
> 
> With the hoppier beers, spicy hops seem to compliment the rye nicely. I've found columbus to be a good one for that.
> 
> Reman did a great Rye Bock in the recent NSW case swap.
> 
> It was a massive PITA when I used to do boils in my electric crown urn. No issues with my gas set up.


Yep, my Grainfather absolutely HATES rye. 10%+ and it scorches, gums up the sparge, etc etc.


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## Coalminer

Use 20% regularly in dr Smurtos golden golden ale, never a problem


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## Gigantorus

Gonna brew up a Roggenbier next. My draft recipe attached.

Any thoughts, suggestion, comments, additions, etc?

Cheers,

Pete 

View attachment German-Roggenbier-2016.pdf


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## Brownsworthy

I've only ever used 6.75% in a red rye ipa with good results supposedly 4 Pines west coast red rye ipa uses 50% rye and takes around 6hrs to drain from the mash.


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## Gigantorus

A red rye IPA might be one of my next rye inventions in the next few months.


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## Droopy Brew

Gigantorus said:


> Gonna brew up a Roggenbier next. My draft recipe attached.
> 
> Any thoughts, suggestion, comments, additions, etc?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete


Up the rye! Up him strong!
You are doing a partial mash so I would do 2kg of Rye, drop the carapils and probably the shep as well.
Hops should be a bittering addition at 60 min and maybe a small amount at 10 or 15 min. Something like 20 IBU at 60 and 2 IBU at 15.
This style requires a weizen yeast for the ester and phenol characteristics. Wyeast 3068, White labs WLP300 would be the best. At a pinch you could use WB06 (Dry yeast) but Im really not a fan as it is phenol heavy. If using one of the 2 liquids ferment at 17C and you will get a good mix of clove and banana.


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## kaiserben

Gigantorus said:


> Gonna brew up a Roggenbier next. My draft recipe attached.
> 
> Any thoughts, suggestion, comments, additions, etc?


My 2 cents: 

23.5% rye malt means you're not really making a proper roggen IMO. Is it possible to get above 50% via extract brewing? 

I reckon you need a proper weizen yeast. K-97 just won't cut it ester-wise. 

And don't bother cold-crashing. Enjoy this one cloudy like you would a weizen.


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## drsmurto

Brewed a 100% rye for a single malt comparison series with a bunch of brewers. Mash was like glue and despite an almost 1:1 ratio of rye to rice hulls it was a very slow sparge. Resulting beer was viscous, like olive oil and rather than being spicy tasted a lot like canned pears. From memory it only had a 60 min hop addition and was fermented with US05.

In general, i use 20+% rye in beer. Great in low alcohol beers to increase the body and mouthfeel. Love the stuff!


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## Dementedchook

fungrel said:


> Yep, my Grainfather absolutely HATES rye. 10%+ and it scorches, gums up the sparge, etc etc.


Did a 80% pils, 10% munich, and 10% rye on the weekend for my first beer with rye, in the grainfather. I was swearing like a trooper trying to get the burnt crud off the element. And missed my gravity targets. Hope it'll be a good beer though.


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## Camo6

I usually add 10-20% in most of my APAs or AIPAs but always ran it through the mill with the rest of the malt. I scored an electric flour mill a while back and found it useful for grinding rye additions to release more ryeness. Works well for small additions of rye but was a bad idea to grind over 20% in a recirculating system. Shoulda called the beer Nile Silt APA.


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## shacked

Gigantorus said:


> Gonna brew up a Roggenbier next. My draft recipe attached.
> 
> Any thoughts, suggestion, comments, additions, etc?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete


Maybe consider using some Rye LME from briess. It's 20% rye, 10% crystal 40 and the balance is pale: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWRyeLME.pdf


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## yankinoz

Rye malt can be heard over the noise from assertive hops. Great for malty balance in IPAs. I'm not crazy about large quantities of it in malt-oriented beers,but I'm not a fan of roggenbiers either.


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## Gigantorus

Yeah might have a think about percentages a bit more. I want to use the 2 packets of German Ale yeast, as they are getting on.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Cheers,

Pete


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## indica86

I love rye and also use it in most beers. It works great for BIAB but does **** with the the concealed element in the Crown Urn.


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## Gigantorus

Yeah I see so many comments about how rye clogs things up so much. Luckily I'm only do Extract and Partial-Mash brews, which only involves small steeps in a pot.


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## pajs

One of the advantages of BIAB is how well it handles rye, I think.

Next brew here is a Dark Ale, hopped with small amounts of Super Pride at 60 & Galaxy at the end, with 30% rye, 30% Golden Promise, 30% Vienna, 6% Carafa II, 4% Carabohemian. Never tried Rye in a Dark like this before.


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## mofox1

Drinking a rye ipa now and it is fecking delish. Of course I milled the fucker too fine with this one and ended up with the worst stuck sparge I've ever had. Doesn't detract from the fact this beer is possibly the best* beer ever.

*May or may not be factually accurate. But it is bloody good.


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## ctagz

Just tried one, it's still in the fermenter 

5kg weyerman pils 
1kg Gladfield rye
Cosby farms exp #4 and #6 to 30IBU 
M36 liberty bell mangrove jacks

Mash 67c 30min recirc 
So used the #6 fwh, 10, 20steep
#4 10, 20steep

Finished with 20L @ 1.055

Shit efficiency I know, didn't have any noticeable issues wih the sparge/lauter 

Haven't tried yet but will post back when it's ready. I was expecting the colour to be a bit more darker and red. So this is a good learning example for me.


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## damoninja

DrSmurto said:


> Brewed a 100% rye for a single malt comparison series with a bunch of brewers. Mash was like glue and despite an almost 1:1 ratio of rye to rice hulls it was a very slow sparge. Resulting beer was viscous, like olive oil and rather than being spicy tasted a lot like canned pears. From memory it only had a 60 min hop addition and was fermented with US05.
> 
> In general, i use 20+% rye in beer. Great in low alcohol beers to increase the body and mouthfeel. Love the stuff!


Thinking a rye pale is in order for late summer...

I've only used it in smaller amounts, wanna up it properly... thoughts on amount of rice hulls to use per % rye? Given they weigh stuff all do you go by volume?


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## Ducatiboy stu

Rye + Rice gulls for mashing ( not those cheap Rice Hulls from Hk ) 

Rye is a bit like Millet

If you want to mill it then close your mill gap up

If your going to go Rye then get get a nice fluffy bed


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## breakbeer

Just brewed (& now drinking) a Rye Saison & it's delicious! I used 20% Rye

For the first time EVER I had to clean black burnt crud off my element. I had no idea what caused it, but as the only thing I had done differently was use Rye malt I put it down to that

I want to use it again but not so keen on a burnt element again. Any ideas how to avoid it?


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## drsmurto

damoninja said:


> Thinking a rye pale is in order for late summer...
> 
> I've only used it in smaller amounts, wanna up it properly... thoughts on amount of rice hulls to use per % rye? Given they weigh stuff all do you go by volume?


Sorry, missed this. AHB app failed to notify me (le sigh).

I don't use rice hulls unless rye % is above 30%. So for a standard rye GA grist of 55/20/20/5% (ale/munich or vienna/rye/crystal) I wouldn't use rice hulls. No doubt this is setup dependent, i (still) use a 55L willow esky with a beerbelly falsie. How you mill the grains is also important. I run rye through twice to get it quite fine and then run the rest of the grist through as normal ensuring the husks are mostly intact. 78C mashout which helps to make the mash less viscous and aids liquor flow. Batch sparge which allows me to drain quite quickly and prevent the mash setting.

I don't weigh rice hulls when using them, just scoop them in with a 1L jug until the mash looks OK.


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## damoninja

DrSmurto said:


> Sorry, missed this. AHB app failed to notify me (le sigh).
> 
> I don't use rice hulls unless rye % is above 30%. So for a standard rye GA grist of 55/20/20/5% (ale/munich or vienna/rye/crystal) I wouldn't use rice hulls. No doubt this is setup dependent, i (still) use a 55L willow esky with a beerbelly falsie. How you mill the grains is also important. I run rye through twice to get it quite fine and then run the rest of the grist through as normal ensuring the husks are mostly intact. 78C mashout which helps to make the mash less viscous and aids liquor flow. Batch sparge which allows me to drain quite quickly and prevent the mash setting.
> 
> I don't weigh rice hulls when using them, just scoop them in with a 1L jug until the mash looks OK.


Cheers this is great advice, I too use an esky with a falsie and batch sparge. I've got a kilo of rice hills so if I do plan to go bonkers on rye sounds like I'm more than covered. 

*Edit:* having said I will probably try something with 30% without to start, see how that goes


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## Gigantorus

Sampled a couple of bottles of the new Spicy Grizz (American brown Ale with big doses of Rye) on the weekend (recipe attached). Been in the bottle 2 weeks and is really tasting nice - does have a big chocolate hit, which will mellow in coming weeks.

Having upped the 4th version rye inputs (300g caramel and 500g choc) considerably from my 3rd version (200g Caramel & 100g Choc), the 4th version seems only slightly more spicy than V3. But that is OK with me - it also makes it an easy beer to drink on a hot day. I actually think this 4th version is a keeper and will be my go to American Brown from here on in.

Also bottled the German Rye Ale on the weekend and will wait and see how it develops over the coming weeks. I think I've now gotten rye out of my system and can move onto other wonderful grains and styles. 

Next Sunday am mixing up a Russian Imperial Stout (no rye included) with my bro-in-law, which should be an interesting recipe. It's not a style I get much into but have high hopes for this one.

Thanks again for all your comments - always helpful.

Cheers,

Pete 

View attachment The-Spicy-Grizz-2016-V4.pdf


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## Reman

Rye Bock which I've got some good feedback on (see mid-2016 NSW case swap)

Style: Traditional Bock (5B)
Boil Size: 19.00 l	Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 28.0 EBC	Equipment: Pot 19L - BIAB to 15L
Bitterness: 30.3 IBUs	Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.069 (16.7° P)	Mash Profile: BIAB, Light Body
Est FG: 1.012 SG (3.2° P)	Fermentation: Lager, Single Stage
ABV: 7.5%	Taste Rating: 30.0
Ingredients
Amount	Name	Type	#
18.93 l	Sydney - Potts Point	Water	1
4.00 g	Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60 min)	Misc	2
5.50 g	Calcium Chloride (Mash 60 min)	Misc	3
4.00 g	Baking Soda (Mash 60 min)	Misc	4
1.19 kg	Rye Malt (9.3 EBC)	Grain	5
2.15 kg	Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC)	Grain	6
1.20 kg	Munich Malt (17.7 EBC)	Grain	7
239.1 g	Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC)	Grain	8
48.2 g	Carafa II (811.6 EBC)	Grain	9
150.0 g	Acid Malt (5.9 EBC)	Grain	10
14.6 g	Magnum [14.0%] - Boil 60 min	Hops	11
15.0 g	Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.0%] - Boil 10 min	Hops	12
0.25 tsp	Irish Moss (Boil 10 min)


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## Gigantorus

Thanks for the recipe, Reman.

Re the Acid Malt. I've got 500grams of Abby Malt (got it by mistake) and have never used it. Your advice on how best to use it would be appreciated thanks?

Cheers,
Pete


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## fungrel

Happy to share my entry for the Nationals. Beerxml file attached. View attachment AmericanRyeNationals.xml



Title: American Rye (Nationals)

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 25.3 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.039
Efficiency: 62% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.047
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 4.7%
IBU (tinseth): 20.51
SRM (morey): 8.97

FERMENTABLES:
2 kg - American - Pale Ale (37.5%)
2 kg - American - Wheat (37.5%)
750 g - American - Rye (14.1%)
200 g - Rice Hulls (3.8%)
175 g - German - CaraAmber (3.3%)
175 g - Rye Caramel Malt - (Weyermann) (3.3%)
30 g - Chocolate Rye (0.6%)

HOPS:
14 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Aroma for 15 min, IBU: 7.87
8 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 5.82
12 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 6.82

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 45 C, Time: 10 min
2) Infusion, Temp: 66 C, Time: 60 min
3) Sparge, Temp: 76 C, Time: 15 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 2.7 L/kg

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 each - Whirlfloc , Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.5 tsp - Yeast nutrient , Type: Water Agt, Use: Boil
0.4 ml - ALDC, Type: Other, Use: Primary
1 ml - Aroma Shot, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale II 1272
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 74%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 15.56 - 22.22 C
Fermentation Temp: 19 C
Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
Method: Kegging
CO2 Level: 2.8 Volumes

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Ca2: 50
Mg2: 7
Na: 50
Cl: 90
SO4: 2
HCO3: 73
Water Notes:
Water built from RO.

All sorts of mishaps happened with this beer, not sure if i could reproduce it if i tried. But the recipe held up to be one of my favourites. 

Note that it was designed to be "sweeter and more hoppy" as specified in the AABC guidelines as being acceptable for the style. 

I didn't dry hop, but you could always do as you like.


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## earle

fungrel said:


> Happy to share my entry for the Nationals. Beerxml file attached.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanRyeNationals.xml
> 
> 
> Title: American Rye (Nationals)
> 
> Brew Method: All Grain
> Style Name: Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)
> Boil Time: 60 min
> Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
> Boil Size: 25.3 liters
> Boil Gravity: 1.039
> Efficiency: 62% (brew house)
> 
> 
> STATS:
> Original Gravity: 1.047
> Final Gravity: 1.011
> ABV (standard): 4.7%
> IBU (tinseth): 20.51
> SRM (morey): 8.97
> 
> FERMENTABLES:
> 2 kg - American - Pale Ale (37.5%)
> 2 kg - American - Wheat (37.5%)
> 750 g - American - Rye (14.1%)
> 200 g - Rice Hulls (3.8%)
> 175 g - German - CaraAmber (3.3%)
> 175 g - Rye Caramel Malt - (Weyermann) (3.3%)
> 30 g - Chocolate Rye (0.6%)
> 
> HOPS:
> 14 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Aroma for 15 min, IBU: 7.87
> 8 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 5.82
> 12 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 6.82
> 
> MASH GUIDELINES:
> 1) Infusion, Temp: 45 C, Time: 10 min
> 2) Infusion, Temp: 66 C, Time: 60 min
> 3) Sparge, Temp: 76 C, Time: 15 min
> Starting Mash Thickness: 2.7 L/kg
> 
> OTHER INGREDIENTS:
> 0.5 each - Whirlfloc , Type: Fining, Use: Boil
> 0.5 tsp - Yeast nutrient , Type: Water Agt, Use: Boil
> 0.4 ml - ALDC, Type: Other, Use: Primary
> 1 ml - Aroma Shot, Type: Other, Use: Boil
> 
> YEAST:
> Wyeast - American Ale II 1272
> Starter: Yes
> Form: Liquid
> Attenuation (avg): 74%
> Flocculation: High
> Optimum Temp: 15.56 - 22.22 C
> Fermentation Temp: 19 C
> Pitch Rate: 1.25 (M cells / ml / deg P)
> 
> PRIMING:
> Method: Kegging
> CO2 Level: 2.8 Volumes
> 
> TARGET WATER PROFILE:
> Ca2: 50
> Mg2: 7
> Na: 50
> Cl: 90
> SO4: 2
> HCO3: 73
> Water Notes:
> Water built from RO.
> 
> All sorts of mishaps happened with this beer, not sure if i could reproduce it if i tried. But the recipe held up to be one of my favourites.
> 
> Note that it was designed to be "sweeter and more hoppy" as specified in the AABC guidelines as being acceptable for the style.
> 
> I didn't dry hop, but you could always do as you like.


Looks interesting.

Edit: remove stupid question

Edit: Also interesting to note that under BJCP 2015 American Rye has been separated from American Wheat and has been put in the Specialty: Alternate Fermentables category.


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## fungrel

earle said:


> Looks interesting.
> 
> Edit: remove stupid question
> 
> Edit: Also interesting to note that under BJCP 2015 American Rye has been separated from American Wheat and has been put in the Specialty: Alternate Fermentables category.


Yeah, not sure if AABC will ever split them. From memory there weren't that many entries in the NSW round.


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## Reman

Gigantorus said:


> Thanks for the recipe, Reman.
> 
> Re the Acid Malt. I've got 500grams of Abby Malt (got it by mistake) and have never used it. Your advice on how best to use it would be appreciated thanks?
> 
> Cheers,
> Pete


Haven't used it myself, but I'm guessing it's similar to biscuit. You could probably just chuck it in the bock and back off the Carafa and Munich a little to compensate.

Let us know how it goes!


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## Gigantorus

Gigantorus said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have been really getting into a couple of different rye malts in he past few months. Mainly in concentrate and extract recipes.
> 
> I have used both Caramel Rye and Chocolate Rye. Have used a bit of Caramel Rye in pale ales and Imperial IPAs. But have particularly enjoyed using choc rye in an American Brown Ale (recipe attached). It adds such a nice dry bite to the malty dark flavours. Yes, it's not a typical style or a style in BJCP - but rye in an American Brown Ale is an amazing treat.
> 
> Anyone else been using rye malts in other types of recipes? If so, tell me how you have been using them? I'm always looking for something new to try them in.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete


Had a couple of bottles of this on the weekend. It has become quite a tasty brew. It just needed time to develop.


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## Droopy Brew

Brewed a roggenbier with 65% Rye on the weekend and 500g rice hulls. 1.5 hour sparge and had to disturb the grainbed a couple of times but got there in the end.
It is like motor oil that stuff. Fermenting on 3068 now and tastes like a winner.


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## Randai

Yeah just did a Roggenbier with around 50% Rye, thank god for BIAB otherwise it'd definitely be a slow process. It is super oily which is very interesting. Can't wait to see how this one turns out once its done fermenting with WLP300.


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## Brewman_

Anyone tried the Cara Rye?
It is a Rye Crystal Malt. It is something very different and has a great sweet spice about it. It is something that is just that little bit different.


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## Judanero

Brewman_ said:


> Anyone tried the Cara Rye?
> It is a Rye Crystal Malt. It is something very different and has a great sweet spice about it. It is something that is just that little bit different.



I first used it in a LCIPA clone, but the amount was not enough to notice it to my palette... In a rye IPA though- delicious.


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## Randai

Brewman_ said:


> Anyone tried the Cara Rye?
> It is a Rye Crystal Malt. It is something very different and has a great sweet spice about it. It is something that is just that little bit different.


That sounds nice, at this stage I doubt I even really know what Rye tastes like in beer.
Is the rye a dark crystal malt?


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## Brewman_

Randai said:


> That sounds nice, at this stage I doubt I even really know what Rye tastes like in beer.
> Is the rye a dark crystal malt?


Rye Malt is quite light in colour, typically 4 to 6 EBC.

The Cara Rye, is a crystal malt, EBC of what I have at the moment is 170, so think like Dark crystal, but made from a Rye grain rather than Barley. The same products are available from a wheat base - Cara Wheat.

They both add great colour and a unique sweetness to a beer.

If you do use Rye, pay attention to the cracking. The grain is much smaller than that of Barley, so best to crack it separate to the rest of the grain, and adjust the rollers in quite a bit. I always crack the Rye in a separate run through my mill, otherwise there won't be much Rye character in the finished beer. The same goes for Oat and Wheat malts.

I'd say give them a go, or try commercial example and see what you think.

Cheers Steve


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## barls

cara rye is used in adnams ghost ship. I've had good success to making the clone for it with it.


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## Randai

Brewman_ said:


> Rye Malt is quite light in colour, typically 4 to 6 EBC.
> 
> The Cara Rye, is a crystal malt, EBC of what I have at the moment is 170, so think like Dark crystal, but made from a Rye grain rather than Barley. The same products are available from a wheat base - Cara Wheat.
> 
> They both add great colour and a unique sweetness to a beer.
> 
> If you do use Rye, pay attention to the cracking. The grain is much smaller than that of Barley, so best to crack it separate to the rest of the grain, and adjust the rollers in quite a bit. I always crack the Rye in a separate run through my mill, otherwise there won't be much Rye character in the finished beer. The same goes for Oat and Wheat malts.
> 
> I'd say give them a go, or try commercial example and see what you think.
> 
> Cheers Steve


Yeah just did a batch yesterday, went fine on the crack and got good efficiency. Just need to wait for it to be ready to taste now.


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## Brewman_

Randai said:


> Yeah just did a batch yesterday, went fine on the crack and got good efficiency. Just need to wait for it to be ready to taste now.


I think it is a love or hate thing.

I love the Cara Rye.

I'll watch this thread to see how it goes


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## MHB

Randai said:


> That sounds nice, at this stage I doubt I even really know what Rye tastes like in beer.
> Is the rye a dark crystal malt?


Use enough and it tastes like engine oil - well I guess I'm one of those who hate Rye...
Mark


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## stuartf

At home with a stonking cold so decided to use my time to plan my future brews. Havent gotten into rye yet but have some sitting in my grain store. Was thinking as a first go at brewing a rye lager but not sure what amount to use to not totally unbalance the beer. My fisrt thoughts are 85% pilsner 10% rye and 5% light munich hopped with hallertau mitt to around 35ibu. Will 10% give noticable rye flavour or just add to the body?


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## Randai

MHB said:


> Use enough and it tastes like engine oil - well I guess I'm one of those who hate Rye...
> Mark


Guess I'll see if I like it or not, I used around 50%....


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## Hermies

Randai said:


> Guess I'll see if I like it or not, I used around 50%....


Be prepared to age it . In my experience a few years ago we did a 50 -60 % rye and it was almost throw away . We kegged it just the same and it sat for at least 4-6 mths . It turned out to be a cracker of a beer . So let it age . In my opinion .


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## Fred

Gigantorus said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Have been really getting into a couple of different rye malts in he past few months. Mainly in concentrate and extract recipes.
> 
> I have used both Caramel Rye and Chocolate Rye. Have used a bit of Caramel Rye in pale ales and Imperial IPAs. But have particularly enjoyed using choc rye in an American Brown Ale (recipe attached). It adds such a nice dry bite to the malty dark flavours. Yes, it's not a typical style or a style in BJCP - but rye in an American Brown Ale is an amazing treat.
> 
> Anyone else been using rye malts in other types of recipes? If so, tell me how you have been using them? I'm always looking for something new to try them in.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete



looks interesting mate. I might want to check this one out... rye malts sure looks interesting.


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## Alchomist

I love the rye, but have learnt to use it in small amounts. Just poured this one - basic apa with 4% caraRye added for colour & a touch of bite, dry hopped with citra . 6 weeks old & mellowing nicely


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## Randai

Had a sample of my 50% rye beer, and really the best description is "the bite", that I can come up with this at this time. Where its almost a bitterness to it, where its more like a bitter tea or coffee with that bitterness. But yes sharpness as Alchomist has.


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## Fred

Alchomist said:


> I love the rye, but have learnt to use it in small amounts. Just poured this one - basic apa with 4% caraRye added for colour & a touch of bite, dry hopped with citra . 6 weeks old & mellowing nicely
> View attachment 106535



that looks delicious mate!


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## kaiserben

Gonna attempt a roggenbier this weekend. 51% rye. 

I made same beer last year and it scorched my system (a Grainfather, but that was partially down to user error) so badly that the element kept cutting out and I was forced to switch, mid-brew, over to BIAB, where the process left scorch marks on that pot as well. 

The beer turned out well though. 

Should be fun!


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## Gigantorus

Fred said:


> looks interesting mate. I might want to check this one out... rye malts sure looks interesting.



They are great additives to standard styles.

I think the one that has stood out the most to me is the Weyermann's Chocolate Rye. Have used this is quite a few different brews like an American Brown Ale, RI Stout, Black Ale etc. It adds great chocolate flavour with a nice spicy bite.


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## Randai

Finally cracked the 50% rye beer that I made. Turned out pretty interestingly, I'd say its "sharper" and also has a sort of peppery spiciness to it. Not unpleasant just a bit different. Also I think I inadvertently made a beer that didn't have a thick body to it like rye malt is supposed to give since I did a protein rest.
So overall very interesting, and actually the beer seems a tad bitter than it actually should be, it only has around 20 IBU but I'd say it'd be more than that nearly 30 if I were to use my totally inaccurate guessing.
Will definitely play around with it some more.


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## Schikitar

I cooked up this Rye IPA yesterday, roughly based off a recipe from a guy on the Whirlpool forums, wasn't planning to, I just suddenly found myself in the mood (I'm a relatively new BIAB'er so be gentle)...

Boil Size: 35L – 75 mins
Batch Size (fermenter): 27L
Estimated OG: 1.065
Estimated FG: 1.014
Estimated ABV: 7%
Estimated Color: ~39 EBC (pretty dark for the style I think but came out looking great)
Estimated IBU: ~65 (re-reviewing as I changed up the hop schedule at the last minute)

5.00 kg Golden Promise 57.5% 
1.50 kg Munich II 17.2% 
2.00 kg Rye Malt 23% 
0.20 kg Midnight Wheat 2.3 % 
30g Simcoe – FWH
10g Simcoe – Flameout 
15g Amarillo – Flameout
15g Citra – Flameout 
10g Simcoe – Cube Hop
15g Amarillo – Cube Hop
15g Citra – Cube Hop 
70g Amarillo – Dry Hop
70g Citra – Dry Hop
Whirlfloc 
Yeast – (Planning to use US-05)

I took a sample from the kettle when I was dumping to the cube, when it cooled and settled out a bit there was a fair bit of gunk in there, I can only assume that affects the OG reading as I got 1.078 - I probably need to take a cleaner sample when I transfer to the fermenter...


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## mofox1

Schikitar said:


> I cooked up this Rye IPA yesterday, roughly based off a recipe from a guy on the Whirlpool forums, wasn't planning to, I just suddenly found myself in the mood (I'm a relatively new BIAB'er so be gentle)...
> 
> Boil Size: 35L – 75 mins
> Batch Size (fermenter): 27L
> Estimated OG: 1.065
> Estimated FG: 1.014
> Estimated ABV: 7%
> Estimated Color: ~39 EBC (pretty dark for the style I think but came out looking great)
> Estimated IBU: ~65 (re-reviewing as I changed up the hop schedule at the last minute)
> 
> 5.00 kg Golden Promise 57.5%
> 1.50 kg Munich II 17.2%
> 2.00 kg Rye Malt 23%
> 0.20 kg Midnight Wheat 2.3 %
> 30g Simcoe – FWH
> 10g Simcoe – Flameout
> 15g Amarillo – Flameout
> 15g Citra – Flameout
> 10g Simcoe – Cube Hop
> 15g Amarillo – Cube Hop
> 15g Citra – Cube Hop
> 70g Amarillo – Dry Hop
> 70g Citra – Dry Hop
> Whirlfloc
> Yeast – (Planning to use US-05)
> 
> I took a sample from the kettle when I was dumping to the cube, when it cooled and settled out a bit there was a fair bit of gunk in there, I can only assume that affects the OG reading as I got 1.078 - I probably need to take a cleaner sample when I transfer to the fermenter...


Mate - looks like a great recipe. But why no Simcoe dry hop?!

Make sure you pitch enough yeast, with all the late hopping it can end up sickly sweet if under-attenuated. You're well into 2-pack territory, but if the OG *does* turn out to be 1.078 I'd consider dropping a third in as well.


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## Schikitar

mofox1 said:


> Mate - looks like a great recipe. But why no Simcoe dry hop?!


Thanks mate, well, I only had 50g and used all that in the cook, but still have plenty of amarillo and citra, so that's really the only reason. I did find the simcoe to smell a little more earthy than the other two so thought it best left mostly for bittering and mild flavour... I'm still trying to get familiar with all the varieties, it's a steep learning curve!



mofox1 said:


> Make sure you pitch enough yeast


Yes, this is one area I've not had a lot of luck with just yet! I'll definitely go a third packet if it ends as high it currently stands - thanks for making note of it! I hope to do starters and better aeration etc., in the future, the wife is watching me like a hawk though so I have to be careful with the expenditure!


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## Randai

Schikitar said:


> Thanks mate, well, I only had 50g and used all that in the cook, but still have plenty of amarillo and citra, so that's really the only reason. I did find the simcoe to smell a little more earthy than the other two so thought it best left mostly for bittering and mild flavour... I'm still trying to get familiar with all the varieties, it's a steep learning curve!
> 
> 
> Yes, this is one area I've not had a lot of luck with just yet! I'll definitely go a third packet if it ends as high it currently stands - thanks for making note of it! I hope to do starters and better aeration etc., in the future, the wife is watching me like a hawk though so I have to be careful with the expenditure!



You could even do a non stirred starter in the future, which whilst not providing the same growth (according to yeast starter calculators) will provide something. e.g put it in a container and seal/airlock that up reasonably well and let the yeast go to town on some wort.


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## Bonenose

Gigantorus said:


> They are great additives to standard styles.
> 
> I think the one that has stood out the most to me is the Weyermann's Chocolate Rye. Have used this is quite a few different brews like an American Brown Ale, RI Stout, Black Ale etc. It adds great chocolate flavour with a nice spicy bite.



How much Choclate rye are you using? Sounds pretty good


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## Schikitar

Randai said:


> You could even do a non stirred starter in the future, which whilst not providing the same growth (according to yeast starter calculators) will provide something. e.g put it in a container and seal/airlock that up reasonably well and let the yeast go to town on some wort.



Yeah, that's what I'm thinking I will do, I'll have to add yeast to some DME though as I don't want to crack the seal on my cube until I'm ready to pitch. The question then is, roughly how long do I leave it for, a couple days or just until high krausen?


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## Randai

Schikitar said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking I will do, I'll have to add yeast to some DME though as I don't want to crack the seal on my cube until I'm ready to pitch. The question then is, roughly how long do I leave it for, a couple days or just until high krausen?



A tip that I do, I actually use some wort from the beer I've brewed diluted, that way I can just pour it straight back in instead of having decant/wait for it to all settle out well in advance.

Now not having done a non-stirred starter, I think you just leave it until high krausen roughly. A day or two.


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## Gigantorus

Bonenose said:


> How much Choclate rye are you using? Sounds pretty good



Sorry Bonenose for being tardy. Been away.

Tend to use anything from 200grams to 700grams of choc rye. If I want to impart chocolate flavour then choc rye is my go to grain. Though it does depend on what I'm trying to create.

Recently did my Dark Lord black ale (Extract style) and did a big steep of grains in 7Litres of 67C water, which were:

- 0.5 kg Extra Dark Crystal 120L
*- 0.3 kg Chocolate Rye*
- 0.125 kg Belgian - Special B
- 0.155 kg Carafa I
- 0.19 kg Roasted Barley
- 0.17 kg CaraAmber

Then added 4.0kg of dark dry malt for the 60min boil (2kg at the start and other 2kg 10mins before end of boil). Added 100grams maltodextrin with 10mins to go and 250grams of Treacle at flameout. Then used 3 packets of Mangrove Jack's Empire Ale Yeasts.

Hop schedule was:

20 g Magnum @ 60 min
40 g Fortnight Blend @ 0 min
40 g Columbus @ 0 min
40 g Mosaic @ 0 min
100 g Enigma @ Dry Hop for 4 days 
50 g Mosaic @ Dry Hop for 4 days


The choc rye has come through as a nice light choc flavour with that little rye sharpness & bite, even mixed in with all those other dark grains. It always shines through. Specs of this brew were: 15 IBU, 7.2% ABV and black as the ace of spades.

Cheers,
Pete


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## Schikitar

Randai said:


> A tip that I do, I actually use some wort from the beer I've brewed diluted, that way I can just pour it straight back in instead of having decant/wait for it to all settle out well in advance.



Okay, so draw off (X)ml of my wort, dilute with boiled water (half/half?), pitch dry yeast to that and wait for it to get underway (with intermittent shaking) before bulk pitching the lot into the primary? Have I got that right? Sorry, I know I'm asking a lot of probably dumb/beginner questions, I've just made a few mistakes lately with pitching yeast that I want to try and do it better this time!


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## kaiserben

kaiserben said:


> Gonna attempt a roggenbier this weekend. 51% rye.
> 
> I made same beer last year and it scorched my system (a Grainfather, but that was partially down to user error) so badly that the element kept cutting out and I was forced to switch, mid-brew, over to BIAB, where the process left scorch marks on that pot as well.
> 
> The beer turned out well though.
> 
> Should be fun!



So I made this and I'm now drinking it. 

I had no major scorching on my system this time around. Everything went smoothly. I just made sure the pump was operating at any time the element was due to be switched on. I also gave the bottom of the vessel a scrape before (and occasionally during) the temperature ramp up to the boil. 

And the beer itself is pretty tasty.


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## Randai

Schikitar said:


> Okay, so draw off (X)ml of my wort, dilute with boiled water (half/half?), pitch dry yeast to that and wait for it to get underway (with intermittent shaking) before bulk pitching the lot into the primary? Have I got that right? Sorry, I know I'm asking a lot of probably dumb/beginner questions, I've just made a few mistakes lately with pitching yeast that I want to try and do it better this time!


Yeah well to dilute it to the correct strength which is around 1.040, depends on the gravity of the beer.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/
So if you had a original british bitter which is around 1.043 or something, I'd probably not even bother personally. But if you had a strong barleywine at around 1.080 then you'd need to dilute. In this case if I wanted to make a 2 litre starter for the barleywine I'd use 1 Litre of wort and 1 Litre of boiled de-chlorinated water.


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