# VIC. 2015 Xmas in July - Recipe.



## MartinOC

Probably a good idea to get the ball rolling on this one, since we're all probably overdue for another grain BB as well...HINT to those with contacts...!

Since this is to be a "Bummock" (old Scottish term for a Strong Scotch Ale etc..etc..), it seems appropriate that the brew be a Scotch Ale.

I've loaned Yob the Classic Series book on Scotch Ales (Noonan), so I'm guessing he's currently got some wild ideas gestating as I type (as is his wont)... 

Thoughts?


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Let's sacrifice a scotchman into the boil at 15 minutes!




PS. I REALLY like the Grand Ridge Moonshine and Supershine scotch ales, they're full o' plum, chocolate and are down right indulgence!



Dessert Beers









MOONSHINE 8.5% 
Extra strong pure malt beer in the style of scotch ale or barley wine. Brewed from a wort having an original gravity of 1080. A true connoisseur’s beer, best sipped after dinner not too cold. Expect deep, warm and rich malt flavours. The winner of highest scoring dark ale at the Australian and International Beer Awards 2001 and also a previous winner of Australia’s best Dark Ale at The National Festival of Beers. Winner of the Premiers trophy for best Victorian beer in 2002 and also Worlds Best Specialty Beer at the 2002 Australian and International beer awards along with years of International medals. Enjoy with a lover and chocolates of the highest calibre. Gold medalist 2004. Dual Silver medalist 2005 and more in 2006-2011 with 2 medals in 2011 for both bottled and draught products. Think sticky date pudding, mud cake, oysters or reduce and pour over rich vanilla ice cream.









SUPERSHINE 11% 
The Grandfather of Moonshine. This silky smooth scotch ale is believed to be the strongest bottled beer from Australia. Intense, yet beautifully smooth malt flavours will awaken the taste buds and delight the lovers of rich smooth dark ales and barley wines alike. Winner of 9 International medals including best of class trophy in 2003 and GOLD in 2004. 2005 brought dual gold, the premier’s trophy and best in class in the world. This has been followed by more medals in 2006-2010 again. Best enjoyed as the finale after tasting the full range of Grand Ridge pure beers. Excellent with rich plum puddings, mud cake and burnt caramel sauce. Please be careful when tasting the full range or drinking the stronger beers not to drive at all.


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## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Probably a good idea to get the ball rolling on this one, since we're all probably overdue for another grain BB as well...HINT to those with contacts...!
> 
> Since this is to be a "Bummock" (old Scottish term for a Strong Scotch Ale etc..etc..), it seems appropriate that the brew be a Scotch Ale.
> 
> I've loaned Yob the Classic Series book on Scotch Ales (Noonan), so I'm guessing he's currently got some wild ideas gestating as I type (as is his wont)...
> 
> Thoughts?


Sorry, not much help, just finished God is proof god loves us, half way through the Stone Book currently.. good news is that it's next in line.

Was only thinking about a recipe for this the other day, was thinking a Wee Heavy or the ilk, but I guess it will depend (again) on the equipment we can get on site.

*side. I checked up on the GWR thing today and it says "In Progress" which it has since I put it in.. will try to stir them up. There is a "Fast Track" but Im unwilling to part with the 450 quid for it


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## Mardoo

OK, Full Pint bulk buy is on. Be good if we can solidify something. Wee Heavy? I don't have any tried recipes to offer up but perhaps someone does. I'm happy to get a sack of Golden Promise in the BB towards the effort. I also have a crapload of Simpson's medium crystal I can contribute, and definitely others that might be appropriate as well, but I'd have to have a look at inventory.

Hey, what about those Core Brewing Concepts bulk buys??? h34r:


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## Grainer

LMAO concepts.. I may be able to work something out if it is done early enough for bulk grain

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/FatBastardWeeHeavy

I was looking at this recipe a while ago.. looks interesting.. but would need some mods to build up the crystallisation or receive changes


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## MartinOC

Sorry, guys. 'Been out of the loop for awhile..(& will be all this week).

'Not a great fan of Moonshine ever since Bill Best stopped being the brewer at Grand Ridge (he used to drink it for breakfast!). Not to say we can't do a darker Scotch Ale (I've got a multi-award-winning recipe if folks would like me to post it up for discussion?).

Mostly, Scotch Ales are a simple mix of pale & amber with a shitload of kettle caramelisation of the first-runnings for complexity, but adding a mixture of other grains could achieve the same/similar result.

FP has a Bulk-Buy going? Hmmm... I think I'd prefer to get involved in a full-blown AHB BB if one was to be arranged (Grainer???). No disrespect intended to FP, but the choice of specialties is often limited & the boys at FP take the bulk of the split-spots anyway.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Well the Grand Ridge ones are the only scotch ales I've tried, so yeah happy to follow the guide of you more experienced scotch ale'rs! 

FP will let us arrange our own splits, so that's another option than going a whole hog separate bulk buy? Suppose we need a recipe to ascertain what the grist is, post yours up Martin! 

Ps. I've got a 70L kettle and Italian spiral that could be used as the caramelisation boil down pot? Or is that way too small?


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## Mardoo

POST! POST! POST! POST! POST!


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## MartinOC

OK, Mardoo. With such subtle & subdued cajoling, how could I not aquiesce to your request.... 

Soooo many folks have asked me for this recipe (& variations thereof), that I'm just cutting/pasting from previous PM's. Anyone who was involved in the last winter swap at Yob's place will probably remember my 6.5% Porter, which was a "tamed-down" version of this little puppy:

*Y2K (Caledonian Porter from Hell....!!!)*

15Kg Pale Malt (Maltco I think?) (80%)
1Kg Amber Malt (5%)
740g Crystal (60 EBC) (4%)
500g Wheat Malt (3%)
380g Roast Barley (2%)
300g Chocolate Malt (all I had laying around at the time) (2%)
500g Malt-Dextrin powder (added during the boil) (4%). I'd be inclined to cut-back on the Malto-Dextrin powder (maybe 300-400g), but the full 500g worked, so if it ain't broke.......

Water Treatment (I'd guess about 35l):

2tsp Calcium Sulphate
1tsp Magnesium Sulphate
1tsp Sodium Chloride (Non-iodised table salt)

Mash-in @ 69C. Temp decreased from 69C to 61C over 2 hours (no insulation, no electronic temp. control, no pump etc. In those days, I was using gravity only).
Mash-out @75C.

Boil the absolute crap out of the first few litres of runnings to caramelise, then continue to run-off until SG 1010.

Total boil time - 90 mins.

100g Tettnanger pellets (5.5%) for 75 mins
60g Tettnanger pellets (5.5%) for 15 mins
Tettnanger was all I had laying around at the time.
Low to mid 30's IBU (This was before the days of brewing software to work things out & besides, I literally threw this thing together on-the-fly at a VERY, VERY pissy WortHogs brewday I hosted in September 1998).

Fermentation:
OG 1092 (no idea of the final volume-didn't keep good notes!)
Peet's Irish Ale yeast. This was dumped straight onto the yeast cake from a double batch of "standard" gravity version of the same beer (OG 1042) that I kegged on the same brew-day in order to free-up the fermenter & use the yeast.
Primary fermentation 1 week @ ~20C.
Secondary fermentation 6 weeks @ ~4C.
FG 1020-1025(?)
ABV: Somewhere~ 9.5%-10%

I used the Peet's Irish, 'cos it was what I had plenty of from the previous fermentation & needed something potentially able to ferment small titanium alloy blocks (that stuff was an absolute BEAST!). I think Wyeast 1084 is the same strain. Anything alcohol-tolerant, cold-tolerant & a clean fermenter will do. Scotch Ales aren't fruity.

I was seconded to Canberra for 6 weeks & didn't want to leave it in the primary, so I racked it (still very actively fermenting) into a 45L keg & chucked it in my ice-cream fridge @ 4C until I got back. 

It was brewed in September 1998 & was still going @ 4C well into the new year. I just kept letting-off the pressure (& taking samples, of course!) each week until fermentation started to abate, then let it self-carbonate in the keg & then counter-pressure filled it into bottles around mid-Feb. 1999. At that stage it was still definitely "green".

It took a good year to start coming good & won it's first prize (3rd in Vicbrew '99) as an English Strong Ale. In 2001 it won a 1st at AABC as a Scotch Ale & was still winning prizes for the next few years (including an international 3rd in a Tri-Nations Comp.). It took 8+ years for it to start to drop-off. This is definitely one to put in bottles & store them away for a year (OK, 6 months if you can't wait!) before even bothering to sample.

I called it "Y2K" because it wasn't intended for consumption before the new millennium (NOT, as some suggested, that it would be so badly infected that it would require "de-bugging"!!).


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## Tahoose

I don't have any input on recipe as I'm happy to go with the flow. 

Equipment offers are more for the swap thread, but I'm happy to bring a burner-gas-140ltr pot -120 ltr mash tun if needed. 

Also I think it would be wise to knuckle down a recipe in the next couple of weeks, utilise the grain bulk buy and then spilt the final $$ amount between the cubers. 

I'd offer to pick up the grain except I'm worried I don't have the space.


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## Yob

Base malt we can probably get at trade.

Spec malts need to be sourced independent of the base (scale recipe?)


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## Mardoo

Which begs the question will all the systems be brewing the same wort? Seems kind of cool to me that they do, that will push the literage perhaps north of 1000. 

What say the bringers of the war machines?


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## MartinOC

Idzy's got a "new" MLT that he reckons will hold ~200Kg of grain & his "old" (pissy-little one :blink: ) will hold approx. 70Kg.

Using Yob's thumb, I reckon 200Kg into 450L would get us into the 1090's. We could always stretch it out to fill Idzy's (600L?) boiler, but that obviously means a lower OG, but more volume.

If we were to cut the first-runnings short at about 1040-1050 & use them for an absolute ball-tearer wee-heavy, the second runnings could be used to start a second mash in the smaller mash tun whilst the first is boiling.

Then we whirlpool/cube the first runnings batch & dump the second mash-runnings onto the "spent" hops (typical historical Scottish brewing practice) & get a second beer out of it (assume about 10-13% utilisation from the "spent" hops).

Obviously, that means more overall output volume, but then the question arises of "who gets what?". Both would be extremely passable beers.

It also means a much longer brew-day for all involved & I don't want this to turn into a chore (this is meant to be FUN!) just to try to produce a huge volume on the day.

Mardoo, I was kinda hoping to use my own rig to concurrently run-through different multiple batches (back to back) for variety, that add to the total day's volume. Just for shits & giggles (I've got my HERMS system & can do BIAB batches at the same time). I've never done a BIAB, but it might be good for inexperienced brewers to see just how easily it can be done......?


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## peekaboo_jones

Geez this sounds awesome 
I started last year with a few kits and also began partial BIAB so pretty keen to help out and learn from the gurus!


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## MartinOC

Guru's??? Nah, mate, just brewers like you with big ideas & a bit more experience.

Turn-up, eat, drink beer, talk to people (ie. fellow beer-geeks!), help-out & have fun. If you learn something, it's just gotta make your beers better.

Win-win all-round.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Sounds feasible, I'm in!!! =D


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## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Guru's??? Nah, mate, just brewers like you with big ideas & a bit more experience.
> 
> Turn-up, eat, drink beer, talk to people (ie. fellow beer-geeks!), help-out & have fun. If you learn something, it's just gotta make your beers better.
> 
> Win-win all-round.


You forgot to mention burn stuff...


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## MartinOC

LOTSA stuff to burn :super: :


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## Mardoo

h34r: Dibs on the big log on the left.


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## Cocko

To sleep on?

I thought you would be walking home..... Well, _trying_ to find home


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## GrumpyPaul

> h34r: Dibs on the big log on the left.


 


> To sleep on?


To sleep with....

We've all had those times we've woken up with a bit of wood, but that's extreme


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## Tahoose

I'll be way over there if you blokes are getting frisky after a few beers haha


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## droid

have chainsaw if there is concern over unwanted wood or ... people - bwah hah ha


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## Yob

Tahoose said:


> I'll be way over there_ when_ you blokes are getting frisky after a few beers haha


FTFY


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## Mardoo

droid said:


> have chainsaw if there is concern over unwanted wood or ... people - bwah hah ha


Chainsaws and alcohol, best friends since, well, since they both met guns.


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## MartinOC

Alcohol we'll have.

Chainsaws I've got (actually, 3 of them...!) Here's me with "The Beast":





Anyway.....back to the recipe discussions.....

Does anyone have any other ideas for recipes? My Scotch Ale Classic Series book is currently with Yob, so I can't refer to it for tried & tested alternatives. Open to suggestions.....?


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## peekaboo_jones

How about a July Julyberg?


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## MartinOC

Please explain????


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Can we ferment the bar and chain oil out of that chainsaw???

OG would have to be like 7.065


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## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Can we ferment the bar and chain oil out of that chainsaw???
> 
> OG would have to be like 7.065


Mate, I buy my bar/chain oil in 20L drums (I'm seriously going through THAT much!!), so I've got plenty.

Wouldn't recommend fermenting the stuff, however - you'd end-up with "Wood-alcohol" (F'nur F'nur.. :lol: ).


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## droid

note to self : please avoid upsetting anyone trained to kill, anyone who has an abundance of land and equipment that could be used to hide/cover up any unsavoury deeds, whom houses no less than 3 chainsaws...

being completely in the dark about wee heavies I thought a posting of the style guidelines might at least help get some heads like mine around it?


9E. Strong Scotch Ale
*Aroma:* Deeply malty, with caramel often apparent. Peaty, earthy and/or smoky secondary aromas may also be present, adding complexity. Caramelization often is mistaken for diacetyl, which should be low to none. Low to moderate esters and alcohol are often present in stronger versions. Hops are very low to none.
*Appearance:* Light copper to dark brown color, often with deep ruby highlights. Clear. Usually has a large tan head, which may not persist in stronger versions. Legs may be evident in stronger versions.
*Flavor:* Richly malty with kettle caramelization often apparent (particularly in stronger versions). Hints of roasted malt or smoky flavor may be present, as may some nutty character, all of which may last into the finish. Hop flavors and bitterness are low to medium-low, so malt impression should dominate. Diacetyl is low to none, although caramelization may sometimes be mistaken for it. Low to moderate esters and alcohol are usually present. Esters may suggest plums, raisins or dried fruit. The palate is usually full and sweet, but the finish may be sweet to medium-dry (from light use of roasted barley).
*Mouthfeel:* Medium-full to full-bodied, with some versions (but not all) having a thick, chewy viscosity. A smooth, alcoholic warmth is usually present and is quite welcome since it balances the malty sweetness. Moderate carbonation.
*Overall Impression:* Rich, malty and usually sweet, which can be suggestive of a dessert. Complex secondary malt flavors prevent a one-dimensional impression. Strength and maltiness can vary.
*Comments:* Also known as a “wee heavy.” Fermented at cooler temperatures than most ales, and with lower hopping rates, resulting in clean, intense malt flavors. Well suited to the region of origin, with abundant malt and cool fermentation and aging temperature. Hops, which are not native to Scotland and formerly expensive to import, were kept to a minimum.
*Ingredients:* Well-modified pale malt, with up to 3% roasted barley. May use some crystal malt for color adjustment; sweetness usually comes not from crystal malts rather from low hopping, high mash temperatures, and kettle caramelization. A small proportion of smoked malt may add depth, though a peaty character (sometimes perceived as earthy or smoky) may also originate from the yeast and native water. Hop presence is minimal, although English varieties are most authentic. Fairly soft water is typical.


*Vital Statistics*:

OG: 1.070 – 1.130

IBUs: 17 – 35

FG: 1.018 – 1.056

SRM: 14 – 25

ABV: 6.5 – 10%

*Commercial Examples:* Traquair House Ale, Belhaven Wee Heavy, McEwan's Scotch Ale, Founders Dirty Bastard, MacAndrew's Scotch Ale, AleSmith Wee Heavy, Orkney Skull Splitter, Inveralmond Black Friar, Broughton Old Jock, Gordon Highland Scotch Ale, Dragonmead Under the Kilt


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## droid

here is a founders dirty bastard clone attempt:

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Founders Brewing Co. - Dirty Bastard Clone
Author: HG Brewing
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Strong Scotch Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.137
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.087
Final Gravity: 1.022
ABV (standard): 8.56%
IBU (tinseth): 49.96
SRM (morey): 24.85
FERMENTABLES:
11.71 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light (81%)
1 lb - Belgian - Special B (6.9%)
8 oz - Belgian - Caramel Pils (3.5%)
8 oz - Belgian - CaraMunich (3.5%)
8 oz - Belgian - CaraVienne (3.5%)
4 oz - United Kingdom - Black Patent (1.7%)
HOPS:
2 oz - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 15.86
1.2 oz - Perle, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.2, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 15.61
1.2 oz - Perle, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.2, Use: Boil for 40 min, IBU: 13.7
1 oz - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 4.8
MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temp: 150 F, Time: 45 min, Amount: 2.5 gal, mash grains
2) Temp: 150 F, Amount: 0.5 gal, rinse grains, top up to 1.5 gallons, boil, add LME, top up to 3.5 gal, boil, start hop shedule.
OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 68 F
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)
PRIMING:
Method: Corn Sugar
CO2 Level: 2.4 Volumes
TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Edinburgh (Scottish Ale, Malty Ale)
Ca2: 100
Mg2: 18
Na: 20
Cl: 45
SO4: 105
HCO3: 235
Water Notes:
Use filtered water and add salts to attain the above water profile.
NOTES:
Ferment for 7 days or until fermentation slows. Transfer to secondary and condition at 68 for 3-4 weeks. Transfer to bottling bucket, prime, and bottle.
Condition at room temp for 21 days. Chill for 3 days, enjoy.


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## manticle

Scottish doesn't need 8 types of malt. Maris or golden promise on its own makes a lovely wee heavy - you just need to boil for 3+hours. Challenger or ekg to about 18 ibu with a small part as a 10 minute addition, wy 1728 fermented very cool and a good maturation period to ensure no yeast is left in suspension.
If 3 hours is too long, add a bit of simpsons heritage and caramelise some runnings. A shade of roast barley can help offset the caramel sweetness but a SMASH wee heavy with the long boil can be beautifully complex.
Damn I'm looking forward to starting up again.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Legs may be evident in stronger versions, wtf?


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## MartinOC

Droid, don't worry. I've abstained from killing or dismembering anyone for a few months now, so you're (pretty) safe. You'll notice that I planned this event around full moon, however.... h34r:

That recipe you posted-up can't possibly be described as a Scotch Ale. 50 IBU is WAAY too high.

Manticle is absolutely right, in that a simple grain bill, low IBU & cold fermentation/conditioning with the right yeast will yield excellent results.


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## Mardoo

Let's go for it. Wee Heavy or your porter. I'm sure the funky brewers can do something with either of those, and the rest of us will enjoy fully too.


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## droid

ah well ok you can learn something everyday


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## manticle

Not your fault droid. Nearly every US recipe I see tries to make complex beers with twelfty grist ingredients rather than suitable process.


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## manticle

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Legs may be evident in stronger versions, wtf?


A term for a phenomenon apparent in boozier beers is 'legs' - a kind of lace/cling of alc droplets to the side of the glass.


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## Midnight Brew

MartinOC said:


> Manticle is absolutely right, in that a simple grain bill, low IBU & cold fermentation/conditioning with the right yeast will yield excellent results.


This. Why not keep it simple and boil longer.


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## Yob

Are we making the call on the wee heavy or the porter? 

It'd be good to pin down the recipe so we can scale and get it sorted. 

I'm still happy to secure the base malt at trade, spec malts will need to be sourced from the collective.


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## Mardoo

Make the call Martin.


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## MartinOC

OK, I'll make the call to go for a simple Wee Heavy (since we're on the Scottish theme). Yob's got my Classic Series book atm, but I seem to remember something like:

90% Pale
9% Amber
1% Roast Barley

Aim for about 1080 & 20 IBU from EKG.

How does that sound to everyone?


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## Yob

Do you need it? I could post it perhaps?


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## MartinOC

Nah, keep it until you're done with it. You could perhaps have a look through the recipe section & check my memory for the proportions I suggested above? I know a lot of them do double-mashes, but that might not be practical given we don't know exactly what equipment we'll have available.


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## GrumpyPaul

I was going to suggest we could get someone to bring a smaller pot and burner along to draw some off to caramelise some wort while the boil was hppening...

But then I thought about the size of the batch.

When I have done a 20 litre batch I reduce 3 litres by about half down to about 1.5litres and put back into the kettle.

But if we are going to do the usual swap size batch of 600ish litres that would require reducing 90 litres down to 45.

The maths does my head in trying to work out boil off rates and stuff based on surface area blah blah blah - but I think you'd be boiling for hours to reduce it that much.

So ignore me and carry on.


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## Midnight Brew

I have about 3 or 4kg of amber to donate. And I think that's an excellent idea Grumpy.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

From brewing classic styles:


“STRONG SCOTCH ALE
Rich, malty, and usually sweet, which can be suggestive of a dessert. Complex secondary malt flavors prevent a one-dimensional impression. This is an intermediate style that can be brewed by extract-with-grain or all-grain methods. Ferments at “65° F (18° C).
OG
FG
IBU
Color
Alcohol
1.070-1.130
(17.1-30.2 °P)
1.018-1.030
(4.6-7.6 °P)
17-35
14-25 SRM
28-49 EBC
6.5-10% ABV
5.1-7.9% ABW”

“Keys to Brewing Strong Scotch Ale:
Strong Scotch ale, also known as wee heavy, is related to the lower-alcohol Scottish ales, but the higher starting gravity brings changes that make it substantially different. This beer has a rich, deep malt character plus a fair amount of residual malt sweetness. Enhancing that perception of sweetness is a low level of hop bitterness and often considerable melanoidin development from long boil times. Along with the higher starting gravity comes higher alcohol, although the alcohol should always be just warming and never harsh. The higher-gravity fermentation creates more esters, so this beer is not as clean as the Scottish ales. It isn’t highly fruity, either, but it does tend to have some dark fruit notes, like plums, raisins, and figs.
The key to a good wee heavy is in controlling the“recipe and process to make a beer that is slightly sweet but not cloying, and making it alcoholic but not hot or harsh. Cool, steady fermentation and pitching the right amount of yeast are important. Fermenting too warm or not pitching the right amount of clean, healthy yeast will often result in a solventy taste and aroma.
As with Scottish ales, do not add peat-smoked malt.”

“RECIPE: MCZAINASHEFF'S WEE
OK, I’ll admit it; the name for this beer came to me while taking a “break” from enjoying a pint.
OG: 1.099 (23.4 °P)
FG: 1.026 (6.6 °P)
ADF: 72%
IBU: 28
Color: 16 SRM (31 EBC)
Alcohol: 9.7% ABV (7.5% ABW)
Boil: 90 minutes
Pre-Boil Volume: 7.7 gallons (29.3L)
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.076 (18.5 °P)
Extract
Weight
Percent

Basically 
85% English pale
3% Munich
6% crystal medium
3% honey malt
1.5% crystal dark
1.5% pale chocolate 

Mash at 68C

EKG 60min to 27IBU
EKG 10mim to 2 IBU

“Yeast
White Labs WLP028 Edinburgh Ale, Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale, or Fermentis Safale US-05
Fermentation and Conditioning
Use 18 grams of properly rehydrated dry yeast, 4 liquid yeast packages, or make an appropriate starter. Ferment “at 65° F (18° C). When finished, carbonate the beer from 2 to 2.5 volumes. A period of cold conditioning for several months will improve it.”


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## Mardoo

I'm with Grumps too. Wee Heavy? Sounds large.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

I've got a 70L gas fired pot with Italian spiral if it will help for a side boil/reduction


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## GrumpyPaul

> I've got a 70L gas fired pot with Italian spiral if it will help for a side boil/reduction


Out of interest DJ - what sort of boil off do you get out of that pot and burner in an hour?


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## Whiteferret

After we've used my 200l kettle for the hot water we can put the first runnings into it and boil like crazy. Or if we still need hot water out of it i could bring my cut down 120l.


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## Yob

how many of us 'locals' want to age in a whisky barrel? we 'could' look at storing 4 cubes in one of the ones incoming for a few months?


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## idzy

Yob said:


> how many of us 'locals' want to age in a whisky barrel? we 'could' look at storing 4 cubes in one of the ones incoming for a few months?


You know I'm keen


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## Whiteferret

We could do one each.


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## jimmy_jangles

peekaboo_jones said:


> Geez this sounds awesome
> I started last year with a few kits and also began partial BIAB so pretty keen to help out and learn from the gurus!


me too!


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## Tahoose

Yob said:


> how many of us 'locals' want to age in a whisky barrel? we 'could' look at storing 4 cubes in one of the ones incoming for a few months?


I'd be keen.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

GrumpyPaul said:


> Out of interest DJ - what sort of boil off do you get out of that pot and burner in an hour?


Can get 15-20% at a reasonable flame rate. The Italian spiral can be turned up a crazy amount more but the flame just seems unsafe to me so never have, would be pretty violent too!

Sounds like whiteferrets kit is more suitable?


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## JB

Yob said:


> how many of us 'locals' want to age in a whisky barrel? we 'could' look at storing 4 cubes in one of the ones incoming for a few months?


Oh hell yes! I would love to get in on that action Yob!


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## Grainer

I could always offer up the recipe from my Champion beer from Beerfest which was a baltic porter at 8%.. but a scotch suits me


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## MartinOC

If there's an issue with getting a "side-boil" going to caremelise a proportion of the wort, we could always do a "mini-batch" (say 60-70 Litres  ) the night before on my rig & cube it in readiness for the next day? That's assuming the equipment-Meisters will come up on the Friday evening to get set-up.


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## idzy

MartinOC said:


> That's assuming the equipment-Meisters will come up on the Friday evening to get set-up.


I would go as far to say Friday evening is not optional from a set-up perspective. Plus we can then make a weekend of it.


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## micbrew

I too are up for storage and maturation ..in da whiskey barrels :kooi:

it should warm the cockle's of ya heart


----------



## Whiteferret

I'm sure we'd organised to come up Friday arvo/night earlier on in the thread, to set up for the next day. Anyway I'll be there then Martin.


----------



## Yob

Friday's ate a must for these bummock events, set up time. Working out the kinks and all that.. I'll be there too, not sure if I'll be bringing mote than my thumb though


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Make sure it's calibrated before the event yeah? Wouldn't want to be putting too many or not enough thumbs worth into the boil!


----------



## Mardoo

trying not to think of how one calibrates a thumb...


----------



## Yob

I assure you my process is sanitary... Well, mostly sanitary...


----------



## idzy

So have we settled on a recipe then?


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> OK, I'll make the call to go for a simple Wee Heavy (since we're on the Scottish theme). Yob's got my Classic Series book atm, but I seem to remember something like:
> 
> 90% Pale
> 9% Amber
> 1% Roast Barley
> 
> Aim for about 1080 & 20 IBU from EKG.
> 
> How does that sound to everyone?





idzy said:


> So have we settled on a recipe then?


along those lines


----------



## Grainer

Yob said:


> along those lines


maybe some munich to add complexity?? and wheat for smoothness??


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> maybe some munich to add complexity?? and wheat for smoothness??


Nah, just leave it as-is. Let the simple malt bill & kettle caramelisation do the talking.


----------



## Mardoo

Sure we don't need some rye crystal in there? How about sorghum? Every good Scot loves sorghum!


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Potatoes?


----------



## MartinOC

Have you guys hit the turps early this Friday or sommat??


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Sadly no, but I'm drunk with anticipation!


----------



## droid

who is the designated kilt wearer? Going to be some significant shrinkage going on there.
and do we have a red beard?

Ed a little bit of kilt fibres and facial hair could be late additions


----------



## MartinOC

I think we should nominate Cocko for that, but then he's just as likely to take poetic licence with the request & turn-up in a mini-skirt (or a mankini).

I expect Mardoo to attend dressed as the Statue of Liberty (it being 4th of July 'n'all...).

Yob has the red beard already & if I grew one for the occasion, it'd be red, but not enough time....

Anyway...back to the recipe....

This is going to need around 200Kg of grain. Anyone got a trade contact for sourcing that much at a decent price?


----------



## Tahoose

Think yob said he can get the base malt.


----------



## Mardoo

MartinOC said:


> Have you guys hit the turps early this Friday or sommat??


No, we just want to make some.


----------



## Mardoo

Yes, Yob can get base at trade. And if I were Richard Pryor...


----------



## Yob

Should be able to manage it. 

I won't be fitting any equipment (maybe the mill) in along with it though...


----------



## droid

person to get cheapest 200kg of base gets to ride piggyback on the kilt wearer?
I will shout a 25kg bag of base to go into the mix, Gladfield pale ok?
I might not be around to help with breakfast tho that's the deal...


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Should be able to manage it.
> 
> I won't be fitting any equipment (maybe the mill) in along with it though...


I'll provide my trailer to you for transportation of the sacks of base. Mill would be appreciated.

Hey! You'll actually now be able to squeeze a sleeping bag into the car!!

BTW, 'goes without saying that those that rock-up on the Friday get first-dib's to spec-out their sleeping-possie INSIDE the shed (complete with mega slow-combustion heater) for the weekend & avoid the chills (we've already had snow up here a couple of weeks ago).


----------



## MartinOC

droid said:


> I will shout a 25kg bag of base to go into the mix, Gladfield pale ok?
> I might not be around to help with breakfast tho that's the deal...


All contributions gratefully received. Let us know how much $'s & we'll divvie-up the costs between all the punters on the day (I don't want *anyone* out of pocket or feeling sour-grapes for over-contribution & not getting value for it).

Breakfast dealings are the responsibility of the catering team (this time led by our illustrious AJ80. Mad, impulsive fool that he is......!).


----------



## droid

no worries


----------



## kcurnow

Where are we at with this recipe?


----------



## Yob

Do you want me to scan post some from the book Mr OC? 

I'll bring it Sunday


----------



## MartinOC

OK, Yob. Good idea. I was only working from memory.

FWIW, I did a test-batch with 90% Pale/9% Amber/1% Roast Barley a couple of weekends ago. Still in the fermenter, but I reckon it's a little dark. Maybe cut it back on the RB to 0.75-0.5%? I'll let you know better once the hydrometer test sample settles overnight (unlikely - it's still going, currently about 1050). Doesn't tast bad right now, 'though!!


----------



## Whiteferret

I'll bring my mill with or without chain/sprocket guarding(working on that and making it more usable). I don't forsee anything going wrong with it but if someone has some kind of backup it would be nice.


----------



## MartinOC

I think Yob's going to bring a mill too, so we should have that aspect sorted.

Whilst I think of it....never been involved in the Friday-night preamble before. I assume the grains get milled back into their original bags, or do we pre-load the MLT(s) & underlet for mash-in?

Idzy??????


----------



## Whiteferret

MartinOC said:


> BTW, 'goes without saying that those that rock-up on the Friday get first-dib's to spec-out their sleeping-possie INSIDE the shed (complete with mega slow-combustion heater) for the weekend & avoid the chills (we've already had snow up here a couple of weeks ago).


Cool. I've slept with frost on my swag before so snow sounds good. I'd love to wake up and see snow all around. If it's wet and miserable I'm in the shed. Or car.


----------



## Whiteferret

We premilled into the MLTs ready to rumble.


----------



## Yob

What he said, get it ready go, first awake lights the fires and gets s going for strike


----------



## MartinOC

Wayne, your spot is assured, wherever you want to spec. it out. Entirely up to you.


----------



## MartinOC

MartinOC said:


> OK, Yob. Good idea. I was only working from memory.
> 
> FWIW, I did a test-batch with 90% Pale/9% Amber/1% Roast Barley a couple of weekends ago. Still in the fermenter, but I reckon it's a little dark. Maybe cut it back on the RB to 0.75-0.5%? I'll let you know better once the hydrometer test sample settles overnight (unlikely - it's still going, currently about 1050). Doesn't tast bad right now, 'though!!


Further to this, I actually used Dingemann's Biscuit rather than Amber (which I forgot until just now...).

I just dropped it & it's definitely rather dark, so cutting-back on the RB is probably a good idea. It could also be that I boiled the absolute bejeezus out of the first-runnings.


----------



## Black n Tan

I just made one with 87%MO, 6% Ding biscuit, 6% Munich, 1% RB. Taste great, but also too dark (boiled for 3 hours though).


----------



## MartinOC

Black n Tan said:


> I just made one with 87%MO, 6% Ding biscuit, 6% Munich, 1% RB. Taste great, but also too dark (boiled for 3 hours though).


Yeah, mate. I reckon we're pretty-much on the same page.


----------



## Yob

90 Shilling Recipe.. what should we change if anything? add some Munich? Carapils?

We are looking at doing a part reiterated mash, 70-100kg going in on the Friday night to get some Strike Liquor for the above recipe. 

The above recipe scaled up to 500l is 135kg Base, will get 200 and be done with it.


----------



## MartinOC

If we're going with JW as the base malt (current plan), I reckon we might need something else to fill-in the "maltiness" gaps we won't get (traditionally, MO would be used).

Maybe a BIT of Munich/Amber/Carapils/Biscuit etc....but not a lot. KISS wins! Boiling the crap out of the first runnings should provide the rest of the profile.


----------



## Mardoo

Wait, is it Gene, Paul, Peter or Ace who brews?


----------



## MartinOC

F'Nur...F'Nur.....I was expecting that response, but I didn't expect it from YOU Mardoo!!

K.eep I.t S.imple S.hithead!!

PS. If you want to listen to KISS, bring your IPod & be prepared to go for a Loooong walk......


----------



## Yob

I shall see what I can lay my paws on.. A sack or 2 of Munich perhaps?

We can of course change it up, happy to go with the collective decision.. Just don't take all week as I need to get the order in mid next week.


----------



## Midnight Brew

I'll have a crack:

76% Pale
20% Munich
3% Amber
1% Roast Barley

Although I'll add I can never seem to get the amber malt to tick my boxes.


----------



## MartinOC

Whilst you're at it, Yob......how about organising a BB...? h34r:


----------



## Yob

Well.. We're already 10 bags in


----------



## MartinOC

Hehe...you fell into the clutches of my cunning plan.....put me down for 2 bags of JW Trad & 2 of MO...


----------



## droid

whatever comes home with me will probably go into the bourbon barrel for 6months with god know what else but it better be frikkin good, and there upon I lay my trust in thee


----------



## MartinOC

“In chaos, there is fertility.” 
― Anaïs Nin


----------



## droid

i just have a bit of recipe envy going on, carry on


----------



## manticle

As many bags of golden promise as required.
Roast barley mainly to add dry roast balance and colour, taking into account the 3+hour boil. Or just gp + long boil. Do it guys.


----------



## Mardoo

I'm in for the GP. One of my favourite malts.


----------



## Black n Tan

Can it really be a Bummock without UK malt?


----------



## technobabble66

Midnight Brew said:


> I'll have a crack:
> 
> 76% Pale
> 20% Munich
> 3% Amber
> 1% Roast Barley
> 
> Although I'll add I can never seem to get the amber malt to tick my boxes.


I'd go:
75% Pale (pref MO or GP)
18% Munich
6% Amber (ideally Simpsons)
1% Roast Barley

I'm starting to really like my Simpson's Amber.
I should probably mention i've never done a Scotttish Ale, so i could be going off spec.
Just my 2c


----------



## Yob

I should be able to land the Simpsons GP or the MO if that's the direction we want to go?

Martin? Your show soldier, call it in and I'll send off the Req

150kg Golden Promise
50kg Munich _*or*_ 25kg Munich and 25kg Imperial

+ (Side order)

2 JWT
2 MO


----------



## MartinOC

I've just been having a play with some numbers in Beersmith & wanting to stay with easy numbers (ie. multiples of bags):

150Kg GP (80.4%)
25Kg JW Munich (13.4%)
10Kg JW Amber (5.4%)
1.5Kg JW Roast Barley (0.8%)
1.5Kg EKG Pellets (assumed 5%)

In a 500L batch, this should get us into the mid-1080's with around 30 IBU & 30 EBC.

Also, we need to give some consideration to water treatment, since we're on tank water & it's effectively a blank canvas. I've measured our tank water at PH 5.4, but not sure how accurate that is, 'cos I've always had about PH 5.2-5.4 in the mash. I suggest something in the 75-100ppm range Calcium, so I can make-up a "stock" solution of CaCl & add it @ 1:100.

How's everybody with that plan?


----------



## idzy

All sounding great thus far! Well done guys!


----------



## technobabble66

Recipe looks great, Martin! Happy to go with that. 

Just a random "complicating" question:
I've got heaps of midnight wheat that I'm unlikely to use, ever. Is it possible to sub some of the RB with MW? I can cover a full 1.5kg, but I'm guessing we still need some RB in there. Given MW can be a bit more subtle, how about 1kg MW and 1kg RB?
Happy to forget this if it just sounds too risky for such a large batch. I know how you guys prefer to avoid risk...


----------



## technobabble66

You measure your water at pH 5.4?? You mean during the mash or just straight water? That's seriously low if it's out of the tap!
Is it worth throwing in a few 100g's of acidulated to ensure it's below 5.4 and keep a decent efficiency?


----------



## Whiteferret

Yob I thought you were joking about the side order. I was thinking of coming down to get the barrel and maybe going to KK to get a couple of bags of grain. You wouldn't be able to bring it and the barrel up to the swap would you please? If you had the room that is. I'd throw in some petrol money for the trip.

+(side order)

JWT 2
MO 4


----------



## MartinOC

technobabble66 said:


> You measure your water at pH 5.4?? You mean during the mash or just straight water? That's seriously low if it's out of the tap!
> Is it worth throwing in a few 100g's of acidulated to ensure it's below 5.4 and keep a decent efficiency?


Both, mate. That's why I'm not confident with the readings I'm getting from my cheapie PH meter (I calibrated it just before taking the readings, too!).

If it IS indeed 5.4 out of the tap, adding acidulated malt will just drop it through the floor & the PH will drop more during the boil, remember....

I wouldn't be adding any MW to the recipe. It's got more complicated than I really intended already. If you don't want what you've got, bring it up with you & I'll swap you for something else on the day.


----------



## Black n Tan

Water pH is a poor predictor of mash pH. The mineral contents of the water is what drives mash pH and I would assume that tank water would have low residual alkalinity. I would add some CaCl2, but don't think you will need any acidulated malt given the levels of Munich, Amber and RB.


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> I've just been having a play with some numbers in Beersmith & wanting to stay with easy numbers (ie. multiples of bags):
> 
> 150Kg GP (80.4%)
> 25Kg JW Munich (13.4%)
> 10Kg JW Amber (5.4%)
> 1.5Kg JW Roast Barley (0.8%)
> 1.5Kg EKG Pellets (assumed 5%)
> 
> In a 500L batch, this should get us into the mid-1080's with around 30 IBU & 30 EBC.
> 
> Also, we need to give some consideration to water treatment, since we're on tank water & it's effectively a blank canvas. I've measured our tank water at PH 5.4, but not sure how accurate that is, 'cos I've always had about PH 5.2-5.4 in the mash. I suggest something in the 75-100ppm range Calcium, so I can make-up a "stock" solution of CaCl & add it @ 1:100.
> 
> How's everybody with that plan?


Its all available, ready to lock it in. (The base that is, the other still need to be sourced)



whiteferret said:


> Yob I thought you were joking about the side order. I was thinking of coming down to get the barrel and maybe going to KK to get a couple of bags of grain. You wouldn't be able to bring it and the barrel up to the swap would you please? If you had the room that is. I'd throw in some petrol money for the trip.
> 
> +(side order)
> 
> JWT 2
> MO 4


Im not sure I'll have the space mate, I rekon Im pushing what I can fit in the Subie now... unless I get a trailer but it wont have a cover..

You can always come down on the Thursday night or early Friday and assist with the collection? That actually may work better if it's possible.


----------



## Yob

Black n Tan said:


> Water pH is a poor predictor of mash pH. The mineral contents of the water is what drives mash pH and I would assume that tank water would have low residual alkalinity. I would add some CaCl2, but don't think you will need any acidulated malt given the levels of Munich, Amber and RB.



we might do a scaled down version the night before to see where we are at, were looking at a re-iterated mash anyway, we could use the process as a feeler and get a gauge on what will be required for the big play


----------



## GrumpyPaul

> unless I get a trailer but it wont have a cover..


You know where you can get one 

my attendance is looking unlikely at this stage - but you're welcome to borrow the trailer again if you need it.


----------



## MartinOC

Make it so Mr Yob. Are you able to get the Munich bag as well, or is that in the "to be sourced" pile?

If you'd all like, I can bring my trailer down on the Friday & also bring-back the barrel as well, so you can put whatever else you want to bring in the Subie & Wayne can pick up the barrel from here? Then you can follow me back up the Mountain.....?

I also like the idea of a "test-run" (as long as we don't start too late......).


----------



## Yob

Sounds reasonable, might be worthwhile sorting out a equipment on site time so we can work back from that


----------



## Whiteferret

Do we still need my 120l MT or are we going to use Idzys big banga?
just thinking I might need to bring a trailer yet.


----------



## Whiteferret

What happens to the test run wort? Do we just run it out after the mash and strike with it in the morning or do we mashout and boil?


----------



## Yob

@ Martin, I'll get all the full bags of base 

@Wayne, we're gunna keep it at mash temp all might, drain it an pump it as strike the following morning. 

Dunno if your Mt is required, I'm not doing the equipment this one


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

technobabble66 said:


> Recipe looks great, Martin! Happy to go with that.
> 
> Just a random "complicating" question:
> I've got heaps of midnight wheat that I'm unlikely to use, ever. Is it possible to sub some of the RB with MW? I can cover a full 1.5kg, but I'm guessing we still need some RB in there. Given MW can be a bit more subtle, how about 1kg MW and 1kg RB?
> Happy to forget this if it just sounds too risky for such a large batch. I know how you guys prefer to avoid risk...


Just make 30 cubes of my Rogers clone recipe, cmon you know you want to!


----------



## Yob

technobabble66 said:


> Recipe looks great, Martin! Happy to go with that.
> Just a random "complicating" question:
> I've got heaps of midnight wheat that I'm unlikely to use, ever. Is it possible to sub some of the RB with MW? I can cover a full 1.5kg, but I'm guessing we still need some RB in there. Given MW can be a bit more subtle, how about 1kg MW and 1kg RB?
> Happy to forget this if it just sounds too risky for such a large batch. I know how you guys prefer to avoid risk...


I'll take some off your hands, I've quite a bit needed in my future... All the RIS I need to fill that ******* barrel


----------



## manticle

technobabble66 said:


> You measure your water at pH 5.4?? You mean during the mash or just straight water? That's seriously low if it's out of the tap!
> Is it worth throwing in a few 100g's of acidulated to ensure it's below 5.4 and keep a decent efficiency?





technobabble66 said:


> You measure your water at pH 5.4?? You mean during the mash or just straight water? That's seriously low if it's out of the tap!
> Is it worth throwing in a few 100g's of acidulated to ensure it's below 5.4 and keep a decent efficiency?


Why would you acidify it if the pH is low?
Anyone tell me to butt out since I handed in my victorian residency last week and am not attending. I still want to see you guys make good beer though. Stop adding malts.


----------



## MartinOC

manticle said:


> Why would you acidify it if the pH is low?
> Anyone tell me to butt out since I handed in my victorian residency last week and am not attending. I still want to see you guys make good beer though. Stop adding malts.


Butt-in all you want Manticle - you'll always be Victorian at heart 
I answered Techno's query earlier about pH with my (already low) tank water & I agree with you completely. NFA required.

Now, since Yob is sourcing Golden Promise as the base, rather than JW, I REALLY don't think we need to add any other extra malts (after thinking about it a bit more, Manticle, I agree with you!), so I've done a re-jig of the recipe closer to the original one Yob scanned from the Classic Series:

200Kg Golden Promise (99%)
2Kg Roast Barley (1%)
1.5Kg EKG pellets (assumed 5%) for 60 mInutes

In 500L this should give us an OG of 1091, 27 IBU's & 30 EBC.

Could it be simpler?

The Scots are a very simple people (quite unlike the Irish  ), given to excesses of alcohol consumption, gratuitous violence & eating sheep's bladders stuffed with all manner of nasty, icky things.....what do you expect???

Even after some of this goes to the Angels during barrel-ageing, I do believe it will still be a rather powerful drop.


----------



## Yob

Not counting the reiterated mash?


----------



## Mardoo

The more I brew the more I realize all those annoying ***** were right. Simple almost always makes better beer. Almost 

GP FOR PM!!!


----------



## MartinOC

These are "straight" numbers about what we could achieve without making anything difficult for ourselves with a single batch on the day/weekend. I don't think a reiterated mash would change that. The numbers are the numbers....

If you guys want to try for a "slightly" lower OG on a first batch & then do a second-runnings "dump & boil" for a "Standard" (typical Scottish brewing technique), I'm sure we could make it happen with an early start. It would need an amount of "holding-tank" capacity that I haven't really considered & possibly a sack of LDME to make-up any perceived shortfall in OG. This is Scottish Brewing we're doing, eh, Jimmy! Cop that ye wee jobbie!

Maybe folks should bring an extra cube with them just in case we achieve it & just raffle it off? And as many boilers/burners/bottles as we can muster for "holding"...this IS a collaborative brewday, after all......

"If you never stretch the boundaries of what's possible, you'll never know what can be achieved".
Martin O'Connor- Brewer, armchair philosopher, raconteur, keeper of the keys, all-round good guy (with a bit of attitude to him.... -_- ).


----------



## manticle

MartinOC said:


> Butt-in all you want Manticle - you'll always be Victorian at heart
> I answered Techno's query earlier about pH with my (already low) tank water & I agree with you completely. NFA required.
> 
> Now, since Yob is sourcing Golden Promise as the base, rather than JW, I REALLY don't think we need to add any other extra malts (after thinking about it a bit more, Manticle, I agree with you!), so I've done a re-jig of the recipe closer to the original one Yob scanned from the Classic Series:
> 
> 200Kg Golden Promise (99%)
> 2Kg Roast Barley (1%)
> 1.5Kg EKG pellets (assumed 5%) for 60 mInutes
> 
> In 500L this should give us an OG of 1091, 27 IBU's & 30 EBC.
> 
> Could it be simpler?
> 
> The Scots are a very simple people (quite unlike the Irish  ), given to excesses of alcohol consumption, gratuitous violence & eating sheep's bladders stuffed with all manner of nasty, icky things.....what do you expect???
> 
> Even after some of this goes to the Angels during barrel-ageing, I do believe it will still be a rather powerful drop.


Looks excellent to me. Good, long solid boil + age will give all the complexity required.


----------



## Curly79

I've got the "extra cubes" covered [emoji12]


----------



## MartinOC

Curly79 said:


> I've got the "extra cubes" covered [emoji12]


Yes, you have indeed (jammy Bastard!!!).

Save that story for telling on the day & make everyone else weep!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Mardoo said:


> GP FOR PM!!!


I accept the nomination.

I shall get straight to work on the AHB Party policy and election campaign.


----------



## MartinOC

Just turn-up FFS!


----------



## technobabble66

Yob said:


> I'll take some off your hands, I've quite a bit needed in my future... All the RIS I need to fill that ******* barrel


No Sweat, baby! How much are you chasin?



manticle said:


> Why would you acidify it if the pH is low?


A) I was considering that, since both his pre-mash and mid-mash pH was the same, 5.4, that there's a fair chance his pH meter is cactus. So if we're swinging naked in the breeze, i thought it might be worth considering chucking in a little acidulated - it _seems_ to make little difference to a fairly acidified mash but _seems_ to make a larger difference to mashes that are a bit high.
B ) I've found that i've had some improvement in efficiency in dropping my pH from 5.4 to 5.2, _as calculated on the Bru'n Spreadsheet_. So i thought given our likely lowered efficiency from such a huge mash, it could be worthwhile dropping the pH a bit more to regain some efficiency. Admittedly, my experience is derived from calculated pH's, whereas Martin's talking about actual measured pH's. However, i propose to you, good sir, that his meter is, in the Scottish vernacular, shite; and so we're kinda working with a guesstimate, a bit like a calculated spreadsheet.

So there, Mr Ex-Victorian! 

But i'd also consider i don't know WTF i'm talking about, so maybe it's best not to screw around with it. 




manticle said:


> Stop adding malts.


BOOOoooooo!!

[fwiw, i was just suggesting a minor sub so i can dispose of some midnight wheat. Not technically adding extra malts. Not really. Honest.]

Party pooper.


----------



## Yob

kilos would suit the processes in front of me :blink:


----------



## manticle

Techno - if the pH meter is not working and you are flying blind, surely measuring the pH with better equipment would be a better notion than willy nilly adding acid malt? I recommend some cacl2 as mentioned by b&t to get extra calcium and push malt profile. Have some acid (lactic, phosphoric, whatever) on hand. Add enough calcium salt to get 50ppm calcium, measure the pH 10 mins in and see if you need to add acid at all, otherwise leave it. Rb will acidify anyway.

As for malt additions - 1 maybe 2 malts for wee heavy is all that is needed. I'm going to tie your hands together with cotton tape. Midnight wheat? Acidulated?For shame, sir. For shame.


----------



## Mardoo

Techno, I see a gimp mask in your future...


----------



## technobabble66

manticle said:


> Techno - if the pH meter is not working and you are flying blind, surely measuring the pH with better equipment would be a better notion than willy nilly adding acid malt? I recommend some cacl2 as mentioned by b&t to get extra calcium and push malt profile. Have some acid (lactic, phosphoric, whatever) on hand. Add enough calcium salt to get 50ppm calcium, measure the pH 10 mins in and see if you need to add acid at all, otherwise leave it. Rb will acidify anyway.
> 
> As for malt additions - 1 maybe 2 malts for wee heavy is all that is needed. I'm going to tie your hands together with cotton tape. Midnight wheat? Acidulated?For shame, sir. For shame.


Meh
...mumble spoil sport mumble mumble...

In all seriousness, I was just throwing it out there. What you say makes sense and is the better way to go about it. It'd def be a good idea to test the pH if someone has a good meter - hell, it might be a great opportunity for the rest of us with cheap-arse meter to calibrate/test them against an accurate one.


----------



## technobabble66

Mardoo said:


> Techno, I see a gimp mask in your future...


You say this before a gathering of 30-odd guys. 
In the bush. 
Up a mountain. 
At night. 
In the dead of winter. 
With lots and lots of beer. 
Where no one can hear you scream. 

I'm feeling a little scared now...


----------



## MartinOC

technobabble66 said:


> It'd def be a good idea to test the pH if someone has a good meter - hell, it might be a great opportunity for the rest of us with cheap-arse meter to calibrate/test them against an accurate one.


I've been thinking the same thing myself. My alarm bells went-off when I measured both our tank water & distilled water at pH 5.4, straight after I'd calibrated my meter with pH 7.0 & pH 4.0 buffer solutions. Unless the solutions themselves were "shite"?


----------



## technobabble66

How old were the calibrating solutions? Supposedly they only store for 3-6 months at best.


----------



## technobabble66

Just checked the internets. Fwiw, pure distilled water can be around pH 5-6, because the only contaminants will be CO2 forming carbonic acid. 

I thought you'd said it was 5.4 from the tap and in the *mash*, hence my assumption your meter was stuffed. If it's measuring 5.4 in tap and distilled water it might be fine (given your rain water tanks could be v similar to distilled if they're new).


----------



## Midnight Brew

whiteferret said:


> Yob I thought you were joking about the side order. I was thinking of coming down to get the barrel and maybe going to KK to get a couple of bags of grain. You wouldn't be able to bring it and the barrel up to the swap would you please? If you had the room that is. I'd throw in some petrol money for the trip.
> +(side order)
> JWT 2
> MO 4


Wayne, I don't think I'm brining any equipment at this point and just to confirm you need 6 bags to transport? I should be able to bring up 3 or 4 if you can get someone else to fit the rest. I'm coming up Saturday and should be there by lunch.


----------



## MartinOC

Techno - Thanks for checking that ('didn't know they were that short-lived). I couldn't see any manufactured or BB date on the bottles.

Yes, I checked both the tank & distilled water, then also the mash. All of them showed pH 5.4. Hence the alarm bells.

MB - Thanks for the offer, but I want to get everything well & truly underway before lunchtime Saturday. There's talk of doing a test-run the night before to iron out any bugs in the system.


----------



## Midnight Brew

MartinOC said:


> MB - Thanks for the offer, but I want to get everything well & truly underway before lunchtime Saturday. There's talk of doing a test-run the night before to iron out any bugs in the system.


My mistake, I thought that was a side order separate to the bum mock brew. Carry on, nothing to see here.


----------



## droid

@ Martin - thanks for the email, so this is the design you would would like but in tartan yeah?


----------



## Yob

Midnight Brew said:


> My mistake, I thought that was a side order separate to the bum mock brew. Carry on, nothing to see here.


there is.

Order being placed tmoz, please confirm details.

Bummock
200kg Golden Promise

Side order:

Martin:
JW Trad 50kg
Simpsons MO 50kg

Yob
Briess Pale 25kg
JW Trad 25kg
JW Wheat 25kg


----------



## MartinOC

Yob, what's your thoughts on getting a bag of LDME as well (just in case we DO actually manage a parti-gyle & need to "boost" it a bit)?

If it doesn't actually get used, we could split it up & sell/raffle it off to whoever wants some.


----------



## Yob

I can add it if you wish.. I aint splitting it though  

What of the EKG for it, do yo want me to set that aside? I can bring a few other kilos for the gyle too if you'd like


----------



## MartinOC

OK, it's a plan. Ditto on the splitting.......

The "main" batch should only need the 1.5Kg of EKG pellets from a single addition. This beer is all about the malt.

If we manage a dump & boil second batch, we can expect anywhere from 10%-13% utilisation from the "spent" hops, so maybe having another half-Kg on hand would be enough (I'll have a play with Beersmith & see what I come-up with). We could hold some back & do a flavour/aroma addition since it's going to be a "small-beer" & might need a bit of extra character elsewhere in the profile.


----------



## Yob

simcoe then?


----------



## MartinOC

Philistine!


----------



## Whiteferret

Order being placed tmoz, please confirm details.

Bummock
200kg Golden Promise

Side order:

Martin:
JW Trad 50kg
Simpsons MO 50kg

Yob
Briess Pale 25kg
JW Trad 25kg
JW Wheat 25kg

Whiteferret
Simpsons MO 50kg
just let me know if I've gotta come down early to get it.
Give me an amount and I'll transfer it to you tonight.

Cheers


----------



## Yob

Ypu should be right, can always put it in Idzy's battle wagon


----------



## Yob

Grains ordered


----------



## droid

swoit !


----------



## Yob

grains paid for,

Martin, if you want that DME (wasn't on the list) let me know and I'll put it through and get it added to the pickup.


----------



## Yob

So extra equipment lists? Have I missed it?

Im gunna put it in just so I can cement it in my head, I tend to lose the scraps of paper I write it out on..

Yob:

MM3/hopper
Drill
anti foaming agent
HEX
1kg EKG + cube hops for possible gyle?
Cubes x 2
Bottles
keg
Gas Bottle
300kg grains
bedding
tarp
glass + spare
Thermometers (Waynes as well?)

Martin, should I bring my 75lt HLT? or are we going to be ok to get the strike liquor? I'll need to do some tinkering if it's needed.

are we right for Yeast nutrient and floccing agents?

ummm.. there is probably more right?


----------



## MartinOC

Yob, can you make that 2Kg of EKG? I've got lots of extra stuff laying around that we might be able to use, but to have those EKG on-hand would be good. I'll do a show & tell when you're here.

I think we should be OK for strike liquor, but if you want to tinker & have space in the car......

'Don't think we'll actually need nutrient, but I've got some available. I have some polyclar (never used it). Should I get some extra kettle finings?


----------



## Mardoo

I have a bunch of Brewbrite I can bring. Polyclar is for post ferment fining. Apparently the polyclar in Brewbrite is treated differently.


----------



## idzy

Guys, I am bringing up the 80 and a covered trailer. Think I may manage to get up a bit earlier than expected.

Martin, I have worked out a way to battle the cold...


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Yob, can you make that 2Kg of EKG?


will weigh it out tonight


----------



## MartinOC

Mardoo - I didn't read the label. What I have IS Brewbrite, but dunno if it'll be enough. Bring yours along just in case. Ta!

Idzy - Good news indeed! Seeya when you get here. Love the fire pic. Ours isn't quite that big & with the recent weather, has gotten a bit wet. Will have to see how it goes up ('might need a little "accelerant" to give it an initial nudge....) 

Yob - Thanks. It might just come in handy if we want to be "purists" 


If anyone attending has a decent pH meter, could you please bring it along. I'd like to check it against the one I have that seems to have had the dick.


----------



## droid

guys I have a 70ltr maybe a big more HLT with twin 2200 elements which I can fit in if needed but 9am (ish) arrival may not be much good to youse


----------



## MartinOC

droid said:


> guys I have a 70ltr maybe a big more HLT with twin 2200 elements which I can fit in if needed but 9am (ish) arrival may not be much good to youse


Thanks, droid. The way I'm thinking right now, electrical power is going to be at a premium (even with my three 20/15/10A circuits + the gennie running), so gas water-heating & lots of pumping/bailing is the go for this one.


----------



## droid

alrighty


----------



## Damn

For ease of access more than anything else, I'm going to put 18g US-05 into mine, any objections?


----------



## Yob

more.. its 1.100... more!!

Aerate twice at least, every 6 hours better for 24 hours..


----------



## mofox1

You going to open it up and stir it with your paint mixy thing every 6 hrs? Fair 'nuff.

Speaking of yeast, what's your preference master scotsman? I'm assuming 1728/wlp028.... or do we need a really high attenuator for this one?


----------



## manticle

Damn said:


> For ease of access more than anything else, I'm going to put 18g US-05 into mine, any objections?


You want about 3-4 fresh packs in an 1100 beer mate. Four would be my pick. 18 grams is like trying to wipe your bum with one and a half squares of paper after eating ten nuclear chilli chicken wings from the winston hotel.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Good wings?


----------



## manticle

Really good.
Some payback extracted the following morning but nothing good is ever free.


----------



## idzy

Baha, not just pay, but pay twice


----------



## Nullnvoid

I was going to use 1728 as well. How many packets of that will I need to wipe my bum after some spicey chicken wings...I mean ferment the wort?


----------



## MartinOC

A few people asked me about this on the weekend.

My suggestion is to make a batch of something of similar profile (but "smaller"!) & ferment it out (no dry hops etc.), then dump the "biggie" onto the yeast cake ASAP with lots of aeration. It should take-off like a homesick angel. 

Re-aeration after about 12-18 hours will help it along. If your facilities permit, you could "drop" it into a second, clean fermenter as part of the re-aeration regime.


----------



## Damn

Ok, sorry to be the dummy here, was only going off "Mr Malty's" calculation and on a bit of reading, I've clearly misunderstood. I'm just being TA and don't want to hand over my pay packet for the yeast requirement.....So Reset, I think I've found a better calculator. http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ . So It looks like I need to do 2 step 2.5l starters with 15g Dry or a 1728 Liquid single pack (Intermittent shaking). Objections?. I like M.OC's idea of dumping it on a yeast cake but the only brew available it has and over 150g of hops in it. I'm interested how others are doing it.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Think I might just build a bit F-off starter, I've got an aquarium pump I may be able to use with a sanitary air filter, but not sure what kind of flow rate is ideal to aerate? Would one of those camping mattress blow up air fan/pumps be good? Or would that burn out from the sanitary filter restriction?

May have to see if I can borrow an oxygenation setup, go all science bitch on this one!


----------



## Tahoose

I have some Irish ale 1084 so half thinking on brewing a stout then reusing the yeast for the wee heavy.


----------



## technobabble66

The beauty of cubing: we can let it sit until (whenever) we get the yeast ready. Gotta luv it!

+1 for Martin/Tahoose. I might try cranking out a Celtic red, with either the Irish or Scottish yeasts from WL or Wyeast. Then chuck the HWH on top of da cake. 
Probably gonna be a month or 2 off tho. 

Mmmmmmm ... Caaaaake!!


----------



## MartinOC

Tahoose said:


> I have some Irish ale 1084 so half thinking on brewing a stout then reusing the yeast for the wee heavy.


Great idea! 1084 is a veritable beast & perfect for this application. If you're going to do a stout first, 'though, be sure to rinse the yeast cake before you re-pitch.


----------



## mofox1

I've got an Irish Red (wlp004) that I'm just about to keg...

It's been cold crashed for a week, and would have fermented out close to two weeks ago... is that too long, or do I have a ready and waiting candidate to pitch the swap on?

I was going to locate some scottish ale yeast, but if this will work... bonza.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Would be fresh as, you'll need to warm it up gently obviously, but what's the difference with harvested yeast under water in the fridge?


----------



## mofox1

Good point about warming it up, maybe I'll just draw off a couple of litres of slurry into a flask.

Most of the time I'm pitching yeast from a flask when it is active (or at least within a week of being "visibly" active). If I've had yeast sitting under water, or just crashed too long, I'll usually give 'em a bit of warm sugary love in the flask before they hit the fermenter.


----------



## MartinOC

As long as you use something alcohol-tolerant, cold tolerant & "clean"-fermenting, you'll be onto a winner. Scotch Ales aren't fruity/estery & remember it's ALL about the malt, so you want something that'll give you that profile.

Scottish Ale yeasts probably have more in common with lager yeasts, as they're able to ferment at the lower end of what you'd think appropriate for ale ferments. Just keep it low & slow & don't get impatient. This is one that will reward you for putting it away for a looong time.


----------



## manticle

1007 might work well.


----------



## MartinOC

manticle said:


> 1007 might work well.


Possibly/probably a good call, Manticle. As long as there's LOTS of it! 'Doesn't matter that it's a "dusty" yeast, as it'll eventually drop out during maturation & packaging. It'll need to stay in suspension for a long time to do its' work.


----------



## Yob

Why is everything I'm fermenting lately 1.100? RIS barlywine scotch ale... 

And about to brew another one... Need to fit in a pale ale brew to give me a rest, high gravity fermenting is exhausting


----------



## manticle

MartinOC said:


> Possibly/probably a good call, Manticle. As long as there's LOTS of it! 'Doesn't matter that it's a "dusty" yeast, as it'll eventually drop out during maturation & packaging. It'll need to stay in suspension for a long time to do its' work.


I find the 1728 stays in suspension for some time (flavour wise more than appearance) and really needs to drop bright for the brew to be any good. Once it does clear though - bellisimo.

Definitely loads of whatever yeast people choose. Treat that strong wort well and she will reward you.


----------



## technobabble66

MartinOC said:


> As long as you use something alcohol-tolerant, cold tolerant & "clean"-fermenting, you'll be onto a winner. Scotch Ales aren't fruity/estery & remember it's ALL about the malt, so you want something that'll give you that profile.
> 
> Scottish Ale yeasts probably have more in common with lager yeasts, as they're able to ferment at the lower end of what you'd think appropriate for ale ferments. Just keep it low & slow & don't get impatient. This is one that will reward you for putting it away for a looong time.


Errm ... so, in light of what you've said, i've got 2 FVs of American Ale yeast fermenting out at the moment (Brown & Pale ales); & at least one of them should be ok to throw the Scottish ale cube onto after it's finished.
Would that be ok, given american ale yeast is typically v neutral in flavour?
I'd assumed that the scottish ale yeasts left more character, like the irish ale yeasts. But if what you said is correct, then i may as well use the American stuff i've got ready to go!
(And my last few starters have all gone to vinegar, so i'm currently not confident to go down that path for the time being).


----------



## droid

Hi guys, did we get an IBU on this drop?
Cheers


----------



## MartinOC

droid said:


> Hi guys, did we get an IBU on this drop?
> Cheers


My original plan went out the window.

How much wort did we end up with & did the whole 2Kg of EKG go in the boil for 90 mins?

If I plug 500L into Beersmith, it comes out @ 1099 & 31 IBU.


----------



## droid

well my plan is this:

use 600 ml of slurry from RIS brew (now in bourbon barrel - hoorah!)
this will apparently give me 11bill over
it is London Ale and its threshold is 10%

pitch and aerate at 10am
Aerate again at 2pm
Aerate again at 6pm
Aerate again at 4am (when I get up)

Ferment at 18 

With a few points left pop it in the barrel and condition with first brew
Ok?
Not ok?


----------



## manticle

Generally better to use yeast from a lower abv brew and paler than the one you're doing next.


----------



## MartinOC

manticle said:


> Generally better to use yeast from a lower abv brew and paler than the one you're doing next.


Yep, exactly Manticle. That's why I made the suggestion earlier to make a similar "starter-brew", ferment it out, then pitch this fella onto the cake.

Also why I suggested to Tahoose to rinse the 1084 from his previous stout before use on this one.

As a general rule, go up in gravity & colour if you're re-pitching onto cakes. Don't be afraid of over-pitching with something this big - it'll need it.


----------



## droid

the abv is lower in the first brew for a couple of reasons but it won't be paler...but then I've washed it twice?

what will the darker colour do?

I still have 50% of a barrel to fill (after this beer goes in) and was hoping this brew could go in coz I don't want 100 ltrs @ 10% (approx) let alone another 20ltrs of 10% on top


----------



## MartinOC

droid said:


> the abv is lower in the first brew for a couple of reasons but it won't be paler...but then I've washed it twice?
> 
> what will the darker colour do?
> 
> I still have 50% of a barrel to fill (after this beer goes in) and was hoping this brew could go in coz I don't want 100 ltrs @ 10% (approx) let alone another 20ltrs of 10% on top


Washing/rinsing will clean-up the yeast cake of dead cells - good.

Darker colour will affect the parameters of this brew- bad.

'Not sure what you're getting at with this last point? What are you filling the barrel with? What's your plan for the contents of the barrel?


----------



## droid

The brew is going to be 100 ltrs of strong dark beer aged in the barrel and getting oak and bourbon flavours from it. I can't do a 100 ltr batch in one go, not even 50 (though I am getting that sorted for the next brew day) this brew barrel will be three or four brews that will hopefully hit somewhere around the 10% abv. This bummock brew being the palest but good in abv. The first brew that went in is black and was supposed to be 9.7% but came in at 8.75%. So the combined abv will be about 9.3

The other half will be one big batch of an RIS style or two smaller batches...

It is a work in progress, the first batch came out a bit low in abv, a bit thin for my tastes and I miscalculated the ibu, it's too bitter I'm treating it like a soup, tasting as I go and making changes to get the desired result

Is there a place for the bummock in my barrel? I do have some more abv tolerant yeast coming this week though I read that this yeast is used for RIS, secondl only to porters 

The bummock beer would only represent one fifth of the total vol
?


----------



## MartinOC

Go for it, mate! It's YOUR barrel & what you want to achieve from it.

It sounds like you're mixing a few different brews, but if they're all good, strong, "clean" ferments, I see no reason to doubt the final outcome.


----------



## droid

cheers Martin, the plan is to brew, blend, taste, age, brew, blend, taste, age...

decant, blend, not blend etc


----------



## manticle

Abv wise - if pitching into a high gravity wort, you want plenty of healthy yeast. Alcoholic environments are toxic to yeast so reusing yeast from a high gravity wort in another high gravity wort means you may be pitching stressed yeast into an environment that will stress them more. Better to get fresh stuff and build the numbers. If you were repitching from a mild or blond or something it would be a different story.


----------



## droid

Another thing learned - ok thanks for the explanation manticle. I've brought the bummock beer up to pitching/ferment temp as today was the day, am I risking infection by it sitting at 18 deg for maybe another 4 days before more yeast gets here? Should I drop it back down to fridge temp or leave it at 18?

Cheers


----------



## manticle

You haven't opened the cube have you? If it's still sealed and the no chilling practice was good (sanitary clean cubes, hot wort, squeezed air) then no drama.
If it is unsealed, pitch whatever yeast straight away and get more in there as soon as you can.


----------



## droid

Nah nah she's all sealed up still. I just popped the cube into the fridge and brought it up to 18. I think I'll bring it down to 15 and pitch at that temp letting it rise to 17 or 18. Depending on the yeast I order today I spose.

Cheers


----------



## manticle

That's how I usually do it and like the results. Fermentation will generate some heat and often higher gravity worts even more so.
Good plan.


----------



## mofox1

Damn. Plan A is arsed.

Seems like WLP004 - Irish Ale yeast isn't a fantastic attenuator... Tastes brilliant in my Irish Red I kegged yesterday, but I had forgotten that it had only got down to 1.020 from 1.057, making it around 65%. Still, I've got 2L of slurry I'll wash for more reds or similar.

On the other hand, I consistently get at least 80% from WLP023 - Burton Ale (or at least my house variant now). That should get the swap cube down to 1.020... Good thing I've got another cube of an ESB to use as a starter


----------



## Tahoose

Yeah my first go with the wyeast Irish ale only went down from 1:062 - 1:020, think I had the temp a little cool at 17c though...


----------



## droid

1.024 today


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Looks like a hot chocolate consistency! Awesome!


----------



## droid

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Looks like a hot chocolate consistency! Awesome!


Tasted goooood


----------



## Yob

And at about %11 it's gunna be killer


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Looks like a hot chocolate consistency! Awesome!


That would be the (Ahem!) "slight" miscalculation in the amount of RB in the recipe. On the Friday night, I handed Whiteferret my entire stash of RB in a bucket (about 5Kg). He thought that was the amount needed for the recipe & dumped the lot into the hopper. Luckily, I caught it before it went through the mill & we pulled it out by the handful & guessed the 2Kg required.... 



droid said:


> Tasted goooood


It's just gonna get better... :super:



Yob said:


> And at about %11 it's gunna be killer


...and you want to put this on tap....?????? :blink:


----------



## Yob

Yes.. Yes I do..

Tap 1 - RIS
Tap 2 - Bummock Ale
Tap 3 - Pale/IPA 

Sounds like a pretty respectable line-up 

Keep in mind my previous RIS didn't make 6 months of age and was divine.. 

We aren't constrained to aging these days to cover up flaws in the beer, our malts are a world different to those of yesteryear


----------



## MartinOC

Juice-Junkie!


----------



## Whiteferret

MartinOC said:


> That would be the (Ahem!) "slight" miscalculation in the amount of RB in the recipe. On the Friday night, I handed Whiteferret my entire stash of RB in a bucket (about 5Kg). He thought that was the amount needed for the recipe & dumped the lot into the hopper. Luckily, I caught it before it went through the mill & we pulled it out by the handful & guessed the 2Kg required....


Ahh friday night, good times. 

5kg in 200kg seemed reasonable to me h34r:


----------



## kcurnow

Anyone else chucked the Wee Heavy in a fermenter and checked the gravity? I thought we got to an OG of 1100 but when I took a hydrometer reading after dumping into the fermenter I was reading 1090.this was at 18 degrees just prior to pitching.


----------



## idzy

Brewnut said:


> Anyone else chucked the Wee Heavy in a fermenter and checked the gravity? I thought we got to an OG of 1100 but when I took a hydrometer reading after dumping into the fermenter I was reading 1090.this was at 18 degrees just prior to pitching.
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1437364134.902434.jpg


20 points difference...that's decent.


----------



## mofox1

Pitched mine last night (Burton ale yeast). 21L @ 1.098 - hydro sample tasted divine.

Most aerating (cube & fermenter shaking/twisting/kicking/etc) I've ever done. Now feel like I spent the whole arvo splitting the winter supply of wood.


----------



## Yob

could be worthwhile doing a few aerations 4-6 hours apart.. I know it helps with my RIS's


----------



## mofox1

Cool, will give the fermenter a jolly good roughening up tonight.

At what point is further aeration bad? 25% attn, 50%?


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> could be worthwhile doing a few aerations 4-6 hours apart.. I know it helps with my RIS's


According to the "Yeast" book (Pg. 83-84), there's no point in adding extra oxygen until at least 12 hours after the original pitch with high-gravity worts, as you want the little beasties to achieve at least one cell-division before adding more. Anything before that won't achieve the best result.

Edit: After that, just leave it alone to get on with the job.


----------



## Damn

Unfamiliar with the scottish ale style and I didn't know what to brew to use as cake for this beast. So I sampled a couple, Founders 'Dirty Bastard' & 'Curmudgeon' Faaarrrrking xlnt! So i've just brewed a Scottish 80/- (1.056) with 15g US-05 pitched today. So I'm going to let that ferment over the next 3 weeks. So once I've completed bottling do I just dump the 'Wee Heavy' onto the cake? Or do I need to stir it? Then after 12hrs how do I give it more oxygen?


----------



## Yob

Correct, aerate at pitching and then again in 6 (or 12 hours) 

With anything over 1.090, always double or triple aeration.

I dunno about this only after 12 hours business.. If that was the case we wouldn't use stirplates to provide continuous o2 

Probably the subject for a different topic though..


----------



## droid

Damn said:


> snip... Then after 12hrs how do I give it more oxygen?


You could prolly dump your aerated wort onto the yeast cake. Personally I don't beleive a small amount of beer left behind from the 1056 beer will be noticeable in your wee heavy if you pitched onto the slurry. That lager from the case swap had 3 ltrs of old beer on it, you'd never taste it in a wee heavy. I mixed my trub up with some filtered water, swirled it around to get it off the bottom. Poured it out into a pan and fridged it to drop the yeast out of suspension, poured that water from the top down the sink and added some fresh filtered water or cooled boiled water. (Ed and then repeated) the dumped it at room temp onto the aerated wee heavy.
For aerating I bought an aquarium pump for $20 off flea bay and it does a great job. But again, maybe incorrectly I did a full aeration at pitching time then around 4 hours later, then 6 hours later or something, the next day it was charging I didn't bother aerating again and it got down to 1024 or something before being added to my bourbon barrel so will never know what terminal Gravity would have been.


----------



## Damn

Think i may try the shaking and splashing method after 12hrs. It could end in tears.


----------



## Yob

Paint stirrer for me..


----------



## Damn

Are you going to just pop lid and stir ? How long for? By hand or Machine?


----------



## mofox1

Dammit, at bunnings every other week at the moment and still keep forgetting that fecking paint stirrer.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

manticle said:


> 1007 might work well.


I've never used 1007, nor have I fermented an Altbier yet!

I've got 1007 waiting for an Altbier cube, do you think that would work well as a pre-brew to doing this (pitching the scotch ale onto the cake or a large amount of the slurry in a new clean fermenter), or would the Altbier be too dark? If I ferment the Altbier cold around 15-17C, would I do the same for this or bump temp up to 20C to ensure plenty of activity?


----------



## manticle

I'd keep it cool. 14-15 rather than 17.
Colour (depending on your recipe) roughly similar.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Awesome, thanks! Will spin up my 1007 starter soon. In your experience will I receive the same effect if I rack the Altbier to secondary for the lagering time, and use the yeast slurry to start the scottish ale? Or even at the real cold lagering temps are there benefits still occurring from the yeast cake?


----------



## manticle

If I'm going to cold condition for anywhere above anout 2 weeks, I will usually transfer to cube and seal, mostly to get as bright and clean a beer as possible (appearance and taste wise).


As with all beers, I wait till fg + a few days before chilling and taste the beer first.


----------



## mofox1

10 days in, and it's only dropped to ~1.055 (from 1.098).

Time to pitch more yeast, or leave it alone and rdwhahb? I've got an active 3L starter of greenbelt handy (pitched 1.5 days ago)...


----------



## MartinOC

Relax, mate. This one is going to take awhile. Revisit in 2-3+ weeks.

In the meantime, listen to Whale-song CD's & drink pure spring water, filtered through your current favourite combination of malt & hops....


----------



## mofox1

Good. In that case, the IPA the greenbelt was intended for will be ready about the same time as the bummock.


----------



## Midnight Brew

MartinOC said:


> drink pure spring water, filtered through your current favourite combination of malt & hops....


I like that alot. You should print that on some t-shirts or hoodys. Id buy one.


----------



## MartinOC

This can be arranged.......


----------



## Damn

https://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_hellum_the_world_s_most_boring_television_and_why_it_s_hilariously_addictive?language=en
Maybe your ferment would qualify for slow tv


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Got my Altbier bubbling away with yeast 1007 at 15C building up shiteloads of yeast slurry for the wee heavy. Excited the process is on the way!


----------



## Damn

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Got my Altbier bubbling away with yeast 1007 at 15C building up shiteloads of yeast slurry for the wee heavy. Excited the process is on the way!


Are you going tip your Wee onto your Shiteloads of Slurry in current fermenter? I'm bottling a Scottish /80- on Fri. I was just going to change the tap on the fermenter, crack the Wee and tip about a 1l onto the cake. Agitate the Sheisen out of it, then tip the rest in, allowing plenty more agitation. Then give the fermenter another decent shaking in the morning. Does that sound ok?


----------



## MartinOC

'Not sure I get what you mean by "change the tap on the fermenter"? Here's a thought (assuming everything you're doing is sanitary):

1. Draw-off your 80/- (I'm assuming into a 2nd fermenter with a tap, so it's been sanitised). Bottle it.
2. Rinse out the 2nd fermenter & give it another swish with starsan etc.. (also through the tap)
3. Crack the wee-heavy, add some of it to the 1st fermenter to loosen-up the cake, then dump the whole lot in with lots of "sheizen-agitation".
4. Dump the whole lot back (more sheisen agitation) into the (now clean & sanitised) 2nd fermenter the next day.
5. RDWHAHB.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Damn said:


> Are you going tip your Wee onto your Shiteloads of Slurry in current fermenter? I'm bottling a Scottish /80- on Fri. I was just going to change the tap on the fermenter, crack the Wee and tip about a 1l onto the cake. Agitate the Sheisen out of it, then tip the rest in, allowing plenty more agitation. Then give the fermenter another decent shaking in the morning. Does that sound ok?


I am going to rack the altbier to a keg (for lagering period), then harvest "an" amount of slurry (was gonna try a yeast calc and then found it up a bit more to nearest 500mL of slurry. Will clean and santize the fermenter and pitch the slurry (i just dont like the idea of dumping onto a cake or not having a freshly sanitized fermenter to pitch into.

Also I'm borrowing a friends O2 setup so will be trying oxygenation for the first time on this wee heavy!


----------



## Damn

I was only going to use the original fermenter, just change the tap over for a clean one. But your Idea, Martin, is better.


----------



## mofox1

mofox1 said:


> 10 days in, and it's only dropped to ~1.055 (from 1.098).
> 
> Time to pitch more yeast, or leave it alone and rdwhahb? I've got an active 3L starter of greenbelt handy (pitched 1.5 days ago)...


Two weeks more and we're down to 1.034... From the yeast I'm using I've had 85%AA from a OG 1.058, 79%AA from some 1.080's, so I reckon at best I'll be seeing an OG around 1.024 to 1.026 (~72%AA).

Tasting damn fine from the hydro samples.

Any recommendations for adding fresh yeast for bottling?


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Why add fresh yeast? The main yeast wouldn't be that cooked it couldnt carbonate surely?


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Why add fresh yeast? The main yeast wouldn't be that cooked it couldnt carbonate surely?


With something this big, it's a good idea to add a little fresh yeast at bottling to help continue to age it &/or scavenge any leftover oxygen in the bottles.

Edit: Unless, like Yob (the wild, untamed, red-bearded Scot that he is!), you choose to quaff your 10% Scotch-Ales directly from a keg??

Just so......frightfully uncouth......


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Sounds kike a reasonable plan (not quaffing from the keg!!). Would a tiny drop of healthy slurry from a yeast vial (harvested from a settled started) be a good idea? Or fresh fresh ie. Some yeast direct from a wyeast or white labs pack?


----------



## MartinOC

Fresh it best....

Edit: Sorry, misleading......The freshest you have is best.


----------



## MartinOC

For those that didn't know, Whiteferret dumped the last runnings of the big brew into my 70L boiler before the cleaning-up after the Bummock. I boiled it the next day with 70g of EKG & cubed it with 50g of Bramling Cross in one of the cubes. I ended-up with 56L @ 1059(!!) & estimated mid-20's IBU's.

I dumped the cubes on top of the cake left-over from another brew I did with WLP 013 (London) on Friday & just dropped it into a secondary to clean it up. In less than an hour, it's thrown a new krausen head.

Pretty happy for something that was otherwise going to be dumped...


----------



## Whiteferret

Couldn't let it sit there for nothing. Cheers.


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Edit: Unless, like Yob (the wild, untamed, red-bearded Scot that he is!), you choose to quaff your 10% Scotch-Ales directly from a keg??
> 
> Just so......frightfully uncouth......


Excuse me my good man.. Mine will be barrel aged...






Then kegged...


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Excuse me my good man.. Mine will be barrel aged...
> 
> Then kegged...


Your self-restraint is improving, Yob. I expected you to be doing a lay-back under the fermenter tap on day-5.... :chug:

Carry on.


----------



## Mardoo

Pullin' a Homerrrrrrrrr...


----------



## Nullnvoid

So I have a stout in the fermenter at the moment using Wyeast 1084. Once this has finished am I right to just dump the Bummock onto that slurry? And shake like there is no tomorrow? 

Is it as simple as that or am I forgetting a few steps.

Excuse the ignorance but never used the previous slurry bed of goodness before.


----------



## MartinOC

Wyeast 1084 is a good choice. It's an absolute BEAST! Nice one Centurion!

A few things to think about...& it can be as simple or complex as you want to go/try:

How good was the initial fermentation (ie. vigorous & clean)? If it was a good, strong one, then you're on the right track. If it was piss-poor, then we'll need a re-visit.

You'll need to get as much of the original beer off the lees as you can get soas not to "contaminate" the Bummock with too much of the original. Keep it clean & sanitary during your runoff/transfer.

If you've got a spare fermenter, the easiest way is to dump a bit of the Bummock cube into the original fermenter & swirl/shake the crap out of it to loosen-off the original cake & introduce oxygen, then dump the rest in with MAX aeration. LOTS & LOTS of aeration!

The next day (at least 12 hours later - by this time, it should be well on it's way), transfer/dump (& I mean VIGOROUSLY DUMP!) the whole lot into your freshly clean/sanitised second fermenter. The reason for the 12 hours is that you want at least one cell-division (ie. a doubling of the yeast population), which gives you a good start on such a high-gravity beer.

Leave it alone to do it's jiggy-jiggy thang....

'Reckon that's simple enough without too much to think about or do.

Good luck with it!!


----------



## AJ80

Nullnvoid said:


> So I have a stout in the fermenter at the moment using Wyeast 1084. Once this has finished am I right to just dump the Bummock onto that slurry? And shake like there is no tomorrow?
> 
> Is it as simple as that or am I forgetting a few steps.
> 
> Excuse the ignorance but never used the previous slurry bed of goodness before.


Funnily enough I've an Irish red ale fermenting on 1084 right now and my plan is to dump the swap brew cube right on the cake. Aerate heaps and then again around 12-24 hours.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Thanks Martin, I reckon even I can follow all that. It sounds simple enough 

The current ferment was I think strong enough. It took maybe 2 days to get going but when it did it was good and quick. I didn't make a starter or anything that's why I think it too a bit to get going.


----------



## MartinOC

AJ80 said:


> Funnily enough I've an Irish red ale fermenting on 1084 right now and my plan is to dump the swap brew cube right on the cake. Aerate heaps and then again around 12-24 hours.


Great minds, attuned to the great fermentation-god think alike... 



Nullnvoid said:


> Thanks Martin, I reckon even I can follow all that. It sounds simple enough
> 
> The current ferment was I think strong enough. It took maybe 2 days to get going but when it did it was good and quick. I didn't make a starter or anything that's why I think it too a bit to get going.


You'll be fine. If your initial fermentation was a good one, then following the suggested plan will work wonders. GO for it! Don't be shy with the initial/second aeration, then just leave it alone.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Is doing a partial wort dump 12 hrs apart beneficial if I have an O2 setup to borrow/use, or would actual Oxygenation be the bulk benefit out of the two and therefore simpler to dump it all in at once?


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Is doing a partial wort dump 12 hrs apart beneficial if I have an O2 setup to borrow/use, or wiuld actual Oxygenation br the bulk benefit out of the two and therefore simpler to dump it all in at once?


To quote Churchill: "This is the sort of English, up with which, I will not put!".

What's your actual question?????


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Haha I was wondering if I bother with the staggered dumping of the wort if I am oxygenating directly?

I've calculated for an OG of 1.100 and 22L I need around 400mL of my yeast slurry. If I just double and round up to 1L of slurry, plus oxygenate, am I in a certain good space? Or is there a possibility of overpitching with this one?


----------



## MartinOC

Aha! NOW I get it!!

If you've calculated 400ml of slurry & can introduce pure O2, then you'd probably be fine with just rounding-up to 500ml of slurry. A full Litre would be overkill. My suggestion for Nullnvoid was on the assumption that he doesn't have pure O2 available.

The negative effects of overpitching are better than negative effects from underpitching.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Thanks Martin - all clear now sorry about my spangdanglish!

Will see how much thick slurry settles of the 1.5L I collected in a flask tonight. But is there a percentage of full pitch which is scientifically deemed an "overpitch"? Say 120%, 150%, 200% etc? I'm guessing the bigger the beer the more the negative effects of overpitching would be dampened, is that correct?

I should have at least 200% of the recommended pitch in slurry available to me, wanna work out whether to dump it all in or show restraint for good reason?


----------



## Mardoo

Well now, whose recommended pitch, and do they re-hydrate?


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Mr Jamil Zainsheff (I'm sure I just barstardised his name) aka Mr Malty. Based on MY interpretation of how thick the slurry I collected which is yet to settle is.....



I'm just gonna pitch the lot.


----------



## MartinOC

Woah, Tiger!!

Whilst overpitching is generally better than underpitching, you can still get bad effects: Increased ester production, yeast autolysis flavours & poor head retention.

Stick with your plan of 400ml of slurry. If you go slightly over, not a worry, but don't over-do it.

I don't think I've ever read anything scientific about a percentage-overpitch, but best stick with the calculations.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Right-o! Thanks for the being the voice of reason. I had the pleasure of smelling autolysis first hand from some old slurry recently, so definitely dont wanna risk that in a finished beer. Specially such a precious high gravity one!!!


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

It would appear the yeast gods would have their own way whether I liked it or not. 500mL smack bang on!

Doesnt seem like much from 22L of 1.054 Altbier... I only left 100mL in the fermenter or so and that was quite "frothy" and wouldnt flow out the tap! It was a cold 15C ferment with 1007 though...


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

mofox1 said:


> Two weeks more and we're down to 1.034... From the yeast I'm using I've had 85%AA from a OG 1.058, 79%AA from some 1.080's, so I reckon at best I'll be seeing an OG around 1.024 to 1.026 (~72%AA).
> 
> Tasting damn fine from the hydro samples.
> 
> Any recommendations for adding fresh yeast for bottling?


How's your going mate? What are your plans for fresh yeast?

I'm guessing if we have a thin slurry of fresh (90+% viable) yeast then we would only need 1-2mLs per long neck? If this is the case then a 1L starter made with the same yeast strategically aimed to finish at bottling time and a sterile syringe should do the trick?

I suppose the alternative method would be for me to finally try bulk priming, putting the starter slurry into the secondary with sugar solution and mixing well?


----------



## mofox1

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> How's your going mate? What are your plans for fresh yeast?
> 
> I'm guessing if we have a thin slurry of fresh (90+% viable) yeast then we would only need 1-2mLs per long neck? If this is the case then a 1L starter made with the same yeast strategically aimed to finish at bottling time and a sterile syringe should do the trick?
> 
> I suppose the alternative method would be for me to finally try bulk priming, putting the starter slurry into the secondary with sugar solution and mixing well?


It was down to 1.022 a few days ago and finally seems to be slowing down. Only 2 pts in the 4 days between the last readings.

Still not sure about the bottling method, I think I'm with you on the bulk priming + fresh yeast. To much kucfing about if you start adding syringes.

I'm assuming there is very little point to cold crashing this one?....


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Hmm, I'd still cold crash. I find you can still see 'clarity' of darker/thicker beers. An Altbier I recently brewed looks amazing after a decent cold crash and it's very dark, in fact the photo of harvested yeast above is that same beer and 24 hours settled in fridge after I swirled the yeast cake up, so you get the point 

How many gravity samples you been taking?! You got any beer left? Hehe, or you using a refrac and correcting the reading?


----------



## mofox1

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> How many gravity samples you been taking?! You got any beer left? Hehe, or you using a refrac and correcting the reading?


Why, every night just before bed! Best sleep ever.


----------



## antiphile

I can't believe I missed this entire thread earlier this year. But then again, they don't allow internet access from jail when serving 6 months for gross indecency and being drunk in charge of a kilt (and that was just from tasting the gravity sample). The brew in April was my 3rd revision/attempt, but rather close to what you in the brains trust came up with their first effort (and I'm incredibly jealous, you bastards!) Well done to all.

Mine was:

Recipe: Wee Heavy Triple-D
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 53.26 l
Post Boil Volume: 45.76 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 40.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 38.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.088 SG
Estimated Color: 37.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.2 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
11.00 kg Golden Promise (6.0 EBC) Grain 1 64.9 % 
4.00 kg Pale Ale Malt (2 Row) (4.0 EBC) Grain 2 23.6 % 
1.50 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 3 8.8 % 
0.30 kg Cararoma (400.0 EBC) Grain 4 1.8 % 
0.15 kg Roast Barley (1300.0 EBC) Grain 5 0.9 % 
45.00 g Target [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 23.1 IBUs 
30.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 2.3 IBUs 
1.0 pkg Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) [35.49 m Yeast 8 - 


Mash Schedule: Decoction Mash, Triple
Total Grain Weight: 16.95 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Acid Rest Add 38.50 l of water at 37.1 C 35.0 C 45 min 
Protein Rest Decoct 11.44 l of mash and boil it 50.0 C 60 min 
Saccharification Decoct 14.32 l of mash and boil it 64.4 C 15 min 
Saccharification Decoct 6.19 l of mash and boil it 68.9 C 15 min 
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 34.23 l water at 75.6 C


I'm sure you all value the experience and learning opportunity (and the great weekend) from an event like this. And would love to see something similar in this neck of the woods. My only concern would be allowing the person who decided on the name "bummock beer" to be invited again. -_-


----------



## MartinOC

Lawks alordie! You did a TRIPLE decoction for a Scotch Ale????

Yep, we had a great time (if I remember correctly.... h34r: ).

The "Bummock" idea was coined by Yob at the previous Xmas Case Swap (he's one of those nasty, dirty, aggressive Scottish bastards, y'know...) & I got talked into hosting it on one of the coldest, wettest weekends possible. We survived....with T-Shirts to prove it:


----------



## antiphile

MartinOC said:


> Lawks alordie! You did a TRIPLE decoction for a Scotch Ale????


Well, yeah. But it wasn't a 1000 litre brew!  I'm sure you'll let the yob down gently, though, so he doesn't get too upset next July. :;

Edit added (9:50 pm): Some small adjustments were needed to make out the faces. There are some really unattractive characters in there, Martin. No wonder the OG was so high.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Update on mine, OG was 1.096, slammed it into the FV, shot 2L of O2 through a sintered stone, pitched ~400mL of Wyeast 1007 into the wort at around 17C. Had Krausen within *7 hours*, WOW. Tasted the wort, so silky, so caramely... mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


----------



## Nullnvoid

MartinOC said:


> If you've got a spare fermenter, the easiest way is to dump a bit of the Bummock cube into the original fermenter & swirl/shake the crap out of it to loosen-off the original cake & introduce oxygen, then dump the rest in with MAX aeration. LOTS & LOTS of aeration!
> 
> The next day (at least 12 hours later - by this time, it should be well on it's way), transfer/dump (& I mean VIGOROUSLY DUMP!) the whole lot into your freshly clean/sanitised second fermenter. The reason for the 12 hours is that you want at least one cell-division (ie. a doubling of the yeast population), which gives you a good start on such a high-gravity beer.
> 
> Leave it alone to do it's jiggy-jiggy thang....


Ok so yesterday after I finished bottling I got rid of the rest of the stout from the cake. Couldn't get it all but it was only a small amount. And then from a great height I poured the cube in. Lots of air went in and gave it a good stir up too. 

I was quite surprised today at how active it was right of the bat. I thought it wasn't going to go that quick. 

Anyway just finished pouring from one fermenter in to another clean one. Had another spastic attack (is that politically correct) with the spoon and really gave it what for. 

So now I wait. I shouldn't have to touch it again?


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Id go another agitation 12-24 hrs later and then again (triple aeration).

I'm triple oxygenating this. 1007 is an animal. Started at 17C now 15C. Came to do 2nd squirt of O2 before and its jumping out of the fermenter! While oxygenating the krausen started rising out so took the opportunity to top crop for the first time. Got my fresh yeast for bottling time now


----------



## antiphile

Howdy Lethal

May I suggest a differing opinion from Fermentis' _Tips & Tricks_ booklet:



> Oxygen should only be added in the first twelve hours of fermentation (9 ppm). Adding oxygen during late fermentation will increase aldehyde levels and amplify diacetylformation. High levels of oxygen will suppress ester production.


Of course, the assumption here is that oxygenation equals aeration. Cheers.


----------



## MartinOC

Gents, I've gotta agree with antiphile on this one. 12-18 hours (max.) after the initial pitch & then leave it alone.


----------



## Nullnvoid

MartinOC said:


> Gents, I've gotta agree with antiphile on this one. 12-18 hours (max.) after the initial pitch & then leave it alone.


I was nervous to touch it after 12-24 hours. If you say to leave it then I'm happy with that.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

antiphile said:


> Howdy Lethal
> 
> May I suggest a differing opinion from Fermentis' _Tips & Tricks_ booklet:
> 
> 
> Of course, the assumption here is that oxygenation equals aeration. Cheers.


Thanks antiphile! You have saved me going Oxy-crazy. I did my 2nd dose at 17 hours, bit more than 12 but better than at 36 no doubt. Will leave it be!

Also thinking I need to 'adjust' my fridge setting or stick the STC probe into my fermenting as opposed to sticking on the side, my IR gun tells me centre of the ferment liquid (through the gladwrap) was 18C, but the fridge was set to 16C. Quite the exothermic reaction!


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Gents, I've gotta agree with antiphile on this one. 12-18 hours (max.) after the initial pitch & then leave it alone.


Not if you want to keep them in growth, the trick is to keep a supply of oxygen in there for them. You don't want them swapping from aerobic to anaerobic and back again, if you can keep them in growth, do it.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

I think my yeast has been in Super Saiyan mode since this morning, so doing anything is probably not having much of an effect, LOL!


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Not if you want to keep them in growth, the trick is to keep a supply of oxygen in there for them. You don't want them swapping from aerobic to anaerobic and back again, if you can keep them in growth, do it.


I disagree. Keeping them in growth phase is just like making a huge starter. At some point, you're going to have to let them get on with fermentation.


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> I disagree. Keeping them in growth phase is just like making a huge starter. At some point, you're going to have to let them get on with fermentation.


yep, but a starter can go for up to 36hrs with no negative effects on the yeast (in most situations, I agree, it doesn't need that though)


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

God the ferment smells good! Holding off taking a sample and taster for at least 7 days, it's hard!!!!!!!


----------



## Yob

What do that to yourself?

Have at it..

Report


----------



## mofox1

Faark. So this happened. Currently sitting at 1.018 with a ridiculously high > 81% apparent attenuation.

PLEASE STOP FERMENTING.

Pitched 6 weeks ago now...


----------



## Yob

And taste?


----------



## mofox1

Yob said:


> And taste?


Divine.

Silky smooth, rich & earthy. Vaguely... peaty? There are some delicate flavours/aromas in there, kind of like the smell of crushed autumn leaves: in a herby, earthy, light tannic sort of way.

But srsly... I can't bottle you if you won't stop fermenting... so stop it!


----------



## Mardoo

Which yeast again? 1084?


----------



## technobabble66

mofox1 said:


> Pitched mine last night (Burton ale yeast). 21L @ 1.098 - hydro sample tasted divine.
> 
> Most aerating (cube & fermenter shaking/twisting/kicking/etc) I've ever done. Now feel like I spent the whole arvo splitting the winter supply of wood.


----------



## Yob

Save me a jar of the slurry when you take ot out?


----------



## mofox1

Yob said:


> Save me a jar of the slurry when you take ot out?


Lol. I'm guessing the yeast isn't gonna be much use other than making vegemite, right?


----------



## Mardoo

There's a thread for that.


----------



## kcurnow

Tasted my Wee Heavy from the case swap brew tonight. It was smooth with malty caramel undertones. I will have to have another one to be able to describe it properly but all in all a very tasty beer.
This was fermented with 1084. Started at 1092 and finished at 1019 for an abv of 9.7%.


----------



## kcurnow

It was bottle conditioned and bulk primed with dme. Bottled on the 30/8/15 so based on the above photo, no issues with the left over yeast fermenting the dme for carbonation.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

You dont muck around mate!!! Great to hear it sounds lovely, the hardest part will be keeping some aside to let age!!!!


----------



## MartinOC

Brewnut said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1442572832.017247.jpg
> Tasted my Wee Heavy from the case swap brew tonight. It was smooth with malty caramel undertones. I will have to have another one to be able to describe it properly but all in all a very tasty beer.
> This was fermented with 1084. Started at 1092 and finished at 1019 for an abv of 9.7%.


Let it age.......... This is not a beer to be consumed, but more to be savoured. LEARN it as it ages.......

Edit: This could take up to 10 years........


----------



## antiphile

But it'll be very much appreciated and drinkable by the middle of next year. The perfect smooth winter warmer. Gotta love Wee Heavy. :drinks:


----------



## Nullnvoid

MartinOC said:


> Let it age.......... This is not a beer to be consumed, but more to be savoured. LEARN it as it ages.......
> 
> Edit: This could take up to 10 years........


Really? 10 years? Wow that's insane.


----------



## MartinOC

Yep. If you take care with it when bottling.

I had a 1092 Porter/Scotch Ale that took 8 years before any appreciable drop-off was noticeable.

Yob, of course, will knock his off by Christmas...... :chug:


----------



## mofox1

Brewnut said:


> It was bottle conditioned and bulk primed with dme. Bottled on the 30/8/15 so based on the above photo, no issues with the left over yeast fermenting the dme for carbonation.


How long did yours take to ferment? I reckon I under pitched, hence the 6 weeks mine has taken, and at this age I don't know if the yeast would handle bottle carbing.


----------



## kcurnow

I had it in the primary for 1 week then the secondary for three weeks. I also gave it a blast of O2 for about 15 seconds once I dumped the cube in the primary and then pitched the 1084 from a 3 litre starter.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Refractometer (corrected with Brewers Friend calculator) tells me my SG is at 1.032 down from 1.096 in 7 days, not bad WY1007! It tastes magical, bit of 'hot alcohol' on the taste but that is to be expected is it is already at 9.3% ABV right?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Tested mine today too. After 7 days it's down to 1.034 from 1.094. 

Couldn't believe it myself.


----------



## Yob

took out a vial of 1028 today.. I need a 5lt starter for a single batch FFS...


----------



## mofox1

Yob said:


> took out a vial of 1028 today.. I need a 5lt starter for a single batch FFS...


but it is worth it.

my 2.5l starter was NOT sufficient. thw 6 week ferment kinda proves it.

now, need to get a 5L piece of borosilicate brew porn


----------



## Yob

Ah ha.. 2 x stirplates and 2l flasks


----------



## Mardoo

Yep, I have a 2l and a 3l for when I need those 5l starters...which will be soon, very soon.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Mine appears to be around 1.019 (corrected refrace reading), so it very well may be at FG as the Krausen has also completely subsided. It seriously tastes amazing, must have restraint and give it another week in primary. Might re-test on Sunday with hydrometer/refrac and if stable cold crash it for a week and bottle it the following weekend. Damn it just realised gotta clean up a shite-load of bottles :-( Could always just keg half of it and have it in back of the kegerator with pluto gun for 'special moments' ;-)


----------



## Nullnvoid

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Mine appears to be around 1.019 (corrected refrace reading), so it very well may be at FG as the Krausen has also completely subsided. It seriously tastes amazing, must have restraint and give it another week in primary. Might re-test on Sunday with hydrometer/refrac and if stable cold crash it for a week and bottle it the following weekend. Damn it just realised gotta clean up a shite-load of bottles :-( Could always just keg half of it and have it in back of the kegerator with pluto gun for 'special moments' ;-)


So that's two weeks so far? 

Need to test mine again.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

12 days, but yeah essentially 2 weeks this saturday


----------



## mofox1

Nullnvoid said:


> So that's two weeks so far?


Not even. Just as.


----------



## mofox1

mofox1 said:


> Not even. Just as.


Stoopid fone autocorekt.

^Jealous as.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Hmmm, might actually need some more time! Sitting at 1.022 (corrected 1.023 because sample is at 15C)........ oh well there is no rush I suppose. Some tiny bubbles showing some activity still happening.


----------



## Grainer

Got to get around to fermenting this


----------



## idzy

Same here, need to finish off all the current fermentations


----------



## mofox1

Nearly done. Specific gravity is finally stable at 1.016... 83% attenuation & 11.8% abv.

Bottling day will be Friday. I dropped the fermenter in the keezer last night to begin cold crash, and my 1L starter (finisher?!) should finish up today/tomorrow. I'll chill and decant the starter prior to mixing at bottling time.

I've decided I will bulk prime this one (my first, which is a risk... but hey). Brewers friend reckons about 70g (2.4g/L) to get my desired 1.7 - 1.8 vol of CO2... but that was at the last "ferment temp" of 20deg. I'm assuming that the couple of days at 1-2deg should not count, as there is no more CO2 being produced by my now inactive yeasties...

My google-fu indicates to use the highest temperature reached after fermentation has finished, any advice from the sage brewers?


----------



## MartinOC

11.8%!! That's awesome! This bunny is going to need a looong time before it comes good (ie. 6-12 months).

Your calc's & assumptions are correct. Carry on!


----------



## Nullnvoid

So wise people of beerland, mine seems to have stopped at 1028 after 2 1/2 weeks. It seems everyone elses has kept going down. I bumped it up to 20 from 18 for a few days. What else could I try or is it fine? 

Cheers!


----------



## mofox1

I pitched mine on the 4th of August (8 weeks ago)... give it time.

You could also give it a gentle swirl but try *not *to get it to splash around. If it hasn't moved after a week bump it up to 21, or 22.... mine stayed at 21 for most of the ferment, although I dropped it back to 20 when it hit 1.020.


----------



## antiphile

Nullnvoid said:


> So wise people of beerland, mine seems to have stopped at 1028 after 2 1/2 weeks. It seems everyone elses has kept going down. I bumped it up to 20 from 18 for a few days. What else could I try or is it fine?
> 
> Cheers!


Don't know if you're a kegger or not, but if you are one safe method is to reasonably gently resuspend the yeast with either carbon dioxide or nitrogen. (Of course, follow good sanitary procedures.)

Cheers


----------



## Nullnvoid

antiphile said:


> Don't know if you're a kegger or not, but if you are one safe method is to reasonably gently resuspend the yeast with either carbon dioxide or nitrogen. (Of course, follow good sanitary procedures.)
> 
> Cheers


Haven't ventured down the keg road yet. So still on bottles for the moment.


----------



## mofox1

MartinOC said:


> 11.8%!! That's awesome! This bunny is going to need a looong time before it comes good (ie. 6-12 months).


Cotton tail is already tasting pretty damn good. Didn't I already mention the nightcaps?...


----------



## Yob

Just pitched mine last night, big old whisk last night and another this morning, its jumping now on the 1728 @ 17'c smelled pretty damn good going in.

Anyone know what IBU is on it? Stuffed if I can remember


----------



## kcurnow

Yob said:


> Just pitched mine last night, big old whisk last night and another this morning, its jumping now on the 1728 @ 17'c smelled pretty damn good going in.
> 
> Anyone know what IBU is on it? Stuffed if I can remember


Hmm 28 possibly rings a bell.


----------



## mofox1

We're finally bottled.

I had measured the gravity before cold crash (@20 deg) and it was 1.016 - same reading as a week prior. Just prior to bottling (about 60 hrs later after a 1deg CC), I took another sample and allowed it to warm to ambient... and now it was showing just a whisker above 1.014. What gives?!

Still tastes fine (well - fantastic, but actually preferred the hydro samples from ~2 or 3 weeks ago), but what the hell could cause it to (appear?) to drop gravity points after a short, 2 day, cold crash?

It's a bit early in the day to RDWHAHB, but then again, great day for it (go hawks!).


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Anyone know what IBU is on it? Stuffed if I can remember


I calculated 500L @ 31.3 IBU's, but things got a little "vague" as the day wore-on....'Can't even remember the FV...


----------



## Yob

Sweet. As long as I dint need to mini boil or add a kilo of Simcoe 

It's gone volcanic today and is barely contained, very tempted to top crop a bit in case I need a new active starter (or to freeze if I don't).

I still have that whisky barrel empty if a few others wish to combine and age. My second cube will be fermented right on the back of this one so a couple of weeks till I'm done and ready. Happy to keg store and await others if there is a buy in.

Orherwise, I will have a 100l whisky barrel for sale


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Sweet. As long as I dint need to mini boil or add a kilo of Simcoe
> Philistine!
> 
> I still have that whisky barrel empty if a few others wish to combine and age. My second cube will be fermented right on the back of this one so a couple of weeks till I'm done and ready. Happy to keg store and await others if there is a buy in.
> 
> I'm IN on that one!
> 
> Orherwise, I will have a 100l whisky barrel for sale
> 
> 'Sure you're not into distiling??


----------



## Yob

Positive, Mahdu? Idzy? Care to join?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Mines been in the fermenter three weeksish. Just waiting to see if finished. 

Is that that too late? Otherwise I'm keen to age in barrel


----------



## Yob

First in best dressed, can you keg it so we can easily transfer? I have a spare if you need one


----------



## MartinOC

Erm...just to clarify... My cube is unfermented. Do you want fermented or unfermented additions to the cask?


----------



## Yob

You can ferment and keg to transfer, ferment here in a spare fridge, or any other combination you can conceive of, I'd rather not ferment in the barrel though, a few points off fg is acceptable and even desirable


----------



## Yob

Pitched on the first, down to 1.020 tonight.. I'd day that's a plus for freezing yeast at home 

Bumped temp to 1, couple of days should see me home.


----------



## Yob

Pitched on the first, down to 1.020 tonight.. I'd day that's a plus for freezing yeast at home 

Bumped temp to 1, couple of days should see me home.


----------



## Grainer

Did you still want my cube to add?? it hasn't been fermented yet..? was going to start it this week


----------



## Yob

I think its full (on the initial fill).. need to confirm with the others.

What did you end up doing with your barrel?


----------



## Grainer

It has a Flanders red in it.. Tastes amazing !!! it is 4 months in and only getting better ..I am surprised how good it is.. so much flavour and fruitiness...and maybe interested in another if they become available


----------



## Yob

how many do you have now?


----------



## Grainer

1


----------



## Grainer

Gunna add American oak bourbon cubes to the wee heavy instead


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Coming up to 4 weeks and still visible activity. Havent taken a sample since the last. Will do this sunday at 4 weeks. Hopefully its done, dont wanna waste more than a longneck in samples!!


----------



## mofox1

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Coming up to 4 weeks and still visible activity. Havent taken a sample since the last. Will do this sunday at 4 weeks. Hopefully its done, dont wanna waste more than a longneck in samples!!


pfft


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Still 1.022, its done albeit a couple of yeast blobs rising and falling. Cold crash engaged!


----------



## Tahoose

Hey guys. Haven't touched my cube yet looks fine though. Thinking of making an Irish red ale with 1084 as a starter for this big beer.


----------



## Yob

My second cube is at 1.020 as well, 

1 to go (if I'm fermenting Adams) and then we can fill this damn barrel


----------



## idzy

Sounds very exciting to me. Thanks again Yob


----------



## Yob

I'll give this one another day and keg it on Wednesday, meaning yours will be pitched and done by Saturday / Sunday. This 1728 is cranking along.


----------



## Yob

Yours was kegged (holding tank) last night and martin's pitched. One to go and we can fill the barrel. 

I'm giving the in-laws as growler as is to put away till my birthday 2017 and I'll do similar with an oaked version as well.

How long to we want these on the barrel? 3 months?


----------



## idzy

Happy to go with the flow mate


----------



## Yob

Hoping to have this one finished and the last one pitched by Tuesday 

Hopfully get em in the barrel next weekend


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> How long to we want these on the barrel? 3 months?


The warmer weather is a-comin' & Scotch Ales don't do well in the heat. If it's a new barrel, I'd guess 6-8 weeks would be more than heaps, then get it into bottles (hint, Jesse..  ) or kegs (if you must!) & get it cool again.


----------



## Mardoo

It's a well-used whiskey barrel and in a cellar. Would that change your assessment?


----------



## Yob

Tell ya what. I'll pull a RIS out of the other which has seen 3 months now and do an assessment for you.. Take one for the team like..


----------



## MartinOC

Mardoo said:


> It's a well-used whiskey barrel and in a cellar. Would that change your assessment?


Nope! Any increased temperature is just going to promote further fermentation & you want this baby full & malty, not thin & alcoholic.



Yob said:


> Tell ya what. I'll pull a RIS out of the other which has seen 3 months now and do an assessment for you.. Take one for the team like..


I think I want to bear your love-child!


----------



## mofox1

First tasting of the bummock brew:




Bottled 3 weeks ago @ 1.014, been a temp controlled bottle condition @ 23deg for 2 weeks, then dropped it to 18.

This tastes very different to the near-to-finish hydro samples - the fragrant autumn leaf / fresh turned soil type flavours/ aromas have all but gone (pity - it was very nice). These have been replaced by the deeper and richer characteristics of plum, prune and cola.

Slight amount of fusel alcohol... hopefully will dissipate with a bit more time. Definite alcohol warmth (at 12%, this is hardly surprising...)

Will wait a while for the next one, but will be eagerly looking forward to it.


----------



## AJ80

Been just over a month since I pitched mine (wy1084; nearly a full cake) and it has stalled at 1.024 for 10 days now. Doing the maths this gives me an apparent attentuation of 73% which is bang on for this strain. Am a little worried though given Mofox managed to get his down to 1.014...thoughts?

Importantly though, it tastes friggen amazing. Three cheers to the Brewers!!


----------



## Nullnvoid

AJ80 said:


> Been just over a month since I pitched mine (wy1084; nearly a full cake) and it has stalled at 1.024 for 10 days now. Doing the maths this gives me an apparent attentuation of 73% which is bang on for this strain. Am a little worried though given Mofox managed to get his down to 1.014...thoughts?
> 
> Importantly though, it tastes friggen amazing. Three cheers to the Brewers!!


Mine has been 6 weeks and mine is at 1.024 as well. I'm going to rest in another day or two but I think mines done too. It's been there for about a week. I'm just being very cautious to make sure it's done before I bottle!


----------



## Yob

All of the ones I've fermented (1728) have bottomed at 1.020 which I think leaves a goodly amount of body, definitely needs the barrel to add complexity to it though. The caramelised runnings that were added is certainly noticeable and needs time to mellow, with the Whisky and tannin from the barrel will be lush.


----------



## MartinOC

Gents, remember that this is meant to be a BIG, luscious, malty, fireside sipper in the depths of a Scottish winter. High finishing gravities is the norm. Don't worry about it. What you get is what you get.

The sample I had at Yob's place a few days ago was VERY alcoholic & rather "burnt-caramel" in the after-taste (I'm a bit worried about this, as it may dominate as the beer matures). But it was obviously young & these things tend to mellow with age.

Whatever you get, don't over-prime it & just let it age over the next 12-18 months. This one is an exercise in patience.....


----------



## Yob

I Rekon I'll get nearly 3 years from a keg...

Sipping? Scotsmen sip beer?


----------



## mofox1

AJ80 said:


> Been just over a month since I pitched mine (wy1084; nearly a full cake) and it has stalled at 1.024 for 10 days now. Doing the maths this gives me an apparent attentuation of 73% which is bang on for this strain. Am a little worried though given Mofox managed to get his down to 1.014...thoughts?
> 
> Importantly though, it tastes friggen amazing. Three cheers to the Brewers!!


Mine was a 5th gen pitch from a "house" strain of burton ale yeast, which has become rather more attenuative in the last generations.

You should be good...


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> I Rekon I'll get nearly 3 years from a keg...
> 
> Sipping? Scotsmen sip beer?


Yeah, right! Pfft....


----------



## Yob

Yeah your right.. Probably 2...


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Yeah your right.. Probably 2...


Months.....


----------



## Mardoo

At least.


----------



## Yob

Yob said:


> Yours was kegged (holding tank) last night and martin's pitched. One to go and we can fill the barrel.
> I'm giving the in-laws as growler as is to put away till my birthday 2017 and I'll do similar with an oaked version as well.
> How long to we want these on the barrel? 3 months?


Martin, yours is done, will keg it tmoz and pitch the last one 

Barrel time


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

mofox1 said:


> Nearly done. Specific gravity is finally stable at 1.016... 83% attenuation & 11.8% abv.
> 
> Bottling day will be Friday. I dropped the fermenter in the keezer last night to begin cold crash, and my 1L starter (finisher?!) should finish up today/tomorrow. I'll chill and decant the starter prior to mixing at bottling time.
> 
> I've decided I will bulk prime this one (my first, which is a risk... but hey). Brewers friend reckons about 70g (2.4g/L) to get my desired 1.7 - 1.8 vol of CO2... but that was at the last "ferment temp" of 20deg. I'm assuming that the couple of days at 1-2deg should not count, as there is no more CO2 being produced by my now inactive yeasties...
> 
> My google-fu indicates to use the highest temperature reached after fermentation has finished, any advice from the sage brewers?


How'd your carb turn out mate? I'm employing the same method, albeit for 2.0 volumes (actually 1.75 volumes to be exact as that's all the DME I have left haha). Highest ferment temp was 18C (D-rest), but was mostly at 15C so thinking I may go with that to be on the safer side. Interested to see if your method got you close?

I used Beersmith for 15C ferment temp, 15 Litres and 1.75 volumes carb target. Gives me 77.92grams of DME.

I'll add about 2.5mL of settled top cropped WY1007 yeast to this prior to adding to the secondary for bottling. Hoping that's enough to do the job!


----------



## mofox1

Perfect mate - definitely won't see much of a head on this one, but there is obvious carbonation in the mouth, and when pouring.

I ended up using 80g white sugar in 500ml of boiled water (cos I wimped out on the very low carb level) + the 1L (?) starter of fresh yeast in a freshly cleaned + sanitised fermenter for bottling (it already had previously cleaned and had starsan sitting in it - but I felt this time worth the effort to double up on the cleanliness).

It's been bottle conditioning for almost a month now... about to move it out of it's cosy temp controlled 18deg environment and stick it under the house for 6+ months. With any luck I'll leave it alone (it really is a pain in the arse/beer-belly to go under the house for a beer... so it works).

The first bottle I tried a week or whatever ago was pretty darn good... can see it improving with time, esp if I leave it in the fridge for a few weeks to settle out. The glass I had was rather cloudy.

How long did your ferment go for? Mine was loooong... 6 or 8 weeks (?) hence the fresh yeast.


----------



## Yob

I'm typically done and dusted in 4 days....


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

mofox1 said:


> Perfect mate - definitely won't see much of a head on this one, but there is obvious carbonation in the mouth, and when pouring.
> 
> I ended up using 80g white sugar in 500ml of boiled water (cos I wimped out on the very low carb level) + the 1L (?) starter of fresh yeast in a freshly cleaned + sanitised fermenter for bottling (it already had previously cleaned and had starsan sitting in it - but I felt this time worth the effort to double up on the cleanliness).
> 
> It's been bottle conditioning for almost a month now... about to move it out of it's cosy temp controlled 18deg environment and stick it under the house for 6+ months. With any luck I'll leave it alone (it really is a pain in the arse/beer-belly to go under the house for a beer... so it works).
> 
> The first bottle I tried a week or whatever ago was pretty darn good... can see it improving with time, esp if I leave it in the fridge for a few weeks to settle out. The glass I had was rather cloudy.
> 
> How long did your ferment go for? Mine was loooong... 6 or 8 weeks (?) hence the fresh yeast.


Hmm that sounds like a bit more than I have allowed for. I "think" I have 15L left actually for the bottles (looking at the yeast cake that is above the tap level etc). Boiled that ~76g of DME last night in 500mL but it reduced to around 250-300mL in the flask. Hoping that get's me the right amount of carbonation. I'm still very n00b to carbonation control, have always just used one of those 3 cup spoons for 330mL, 450mL and 750mL with table sugar with decent results for the beers I had been doing. But for this one it would be stupid to be so lax about carbonation.

I had around 125mL of top cropped settled WY1007 slurry so this morning instead of being lazy and only using the 1x~2.5mL vial I had I split out the main flask I harvested, so have 5 vials with around 20-25mL of yeast in each. Palmer says around 1/4 to 1/2 cup of fresh slurry is about right for adding at time of bottling after long extended cold crashes of 2 months or more. Given high alc% safe to assume we are in the same boat as others pointed out earlier. So will add all of those vials except for 1 for my bank with the DME solution and bottle tonight. Looking forward to it!

This Saturday coming will be 7 weeks since I pitched, but it has been cold crashing for 2 weeks at ~3C.


----------



## Mardoo

Yob said:


> I'm typically done and dusted in 4 days....


You and your Frankenyeast. "And then the yeast said to the wort, 'Happy Halloween bitch!' "


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

OK so mine finished at 1.020 with WY1007 (so 11.2% in the bottle if I allow 0.2% for bottle priming). All bottled now, I actually mis-judged the yeast cake was a solid flat cake underneath the tap which made transferring to secondary for bulk priming a dream! Actually got 18 Litres in the end, stoked! Only issue is it means I carbonated at 1.6 vols as already had my sugar pre-boiled in a flask for tonight, nevermind sure it will be fine! To the cupboard for a few weeks they go!


----------



## Nullnvoid

Righteo finally I'm happy mine is finished finally. 

Going to bottle tonight when the little ones are in bed. 

Going to bottle into pet bottles. Would this benefit from less than normal sugar into the bottle? Normally I would do two teaspoons for a pet. Thoughts?


----------



## MartinOC

I would definitely recommend erring on the low-side. Scotch Ales are meant for long maturation in order to mellow-out & they'll continue to carbonate slowly. A little spritz is all you're looking-for.

Don't expect a huge head-retention on this one, either - the ABV is just too high to hold a head.

Your patience will be rewarded.....over the next few years......


----------



## Nullnvoid

MartinOC said:


> I would definitely recommend erring on the low-side. Scotch Ales are meant for long maturation in order to mellow-out & they'll continue to carbonate slowly. A little spritz is all you're looking-for.
> 
> Don't expect a huge head-retention on this one, either - the ABV is just too high to hold a head.
> 
> Your patience will be rewarded.....over the next few years......


Thanks Martin. Maybe I will stick with one teaspoon. Planning on leaving this one for a few years


----------



## MartinOC

Start trying after about 6 months & watch it evolve. Educate your palate....


----------



## Yob

After an epic barrel fail on Friday (we lost maybe 10l as the barrel had dried and leaked) our combined now resides in the Whisky barrel.

We've come up a bit short though, it's not quite full.

Smells good though


----------



## MartinOC

I hold you entirely responsible for this terrible situation & demand recompense for my losses.

Would a jolly-good spanking suffice? :super: I have birch-twigs bundled for just such an occasion......


----------



## Mardoo

Giving or getting?


----------



## MartinOC

Oooer... I just..don't know....erm....both?


----------



## Mardoo

I haven't OFFICIALLY given my cube to Adam yet h34r:


----------



## Yob

Excellent... Ill shoot him a message


----------



## Yob

Excellent... Ill shoot him a message


----------



## Yob

Excellent... Ill shoot him a message


----------



## idzy

I am assuming Mardoo's cube that was going to become my cube is now becoming 'our' cube


----------



## Yob

Either that or I leave the barrel as is.. Either way it'll have to wait till next week, I've got RIS on the frankenyeast right now


----------



## AJ80

Cheers for the reassurance Martin, Mofox and Yob. Will bottle one evening this week.


----------



## idzy

Yob said:


> Either that or I leave the barrel as is.. Either way it'll have to wait till next week, I've got RIS on the frankenyeast right now


No stress Yob


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Mine's been in the bottle almost a couple of weeks now at room temp (relatively consistent at 15C), being carbonated at such a low level, does that mean there is less to no evidence that bottle carbonation has or is occurring still? I usually get some condensation or small bubbles indicating activity, but all the bottles I've checked so far have none. I did add some fresh yeast when I bulk primed too, RDWHAHB? Tempted to try a bottle this weekend....


----------



## Mardoo

RDWHABB (Bummock Brew)


----------



## MartinOC

I thought you were going to leave it under the house until next winter? Leave it alone & try it in 6 months or so.


----------



## Yob

I say try one every month, get a feel for the development of it


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

MartinOC said:


> I thought you were going to leave it under the house until next winter? Leave it alone & try it in 6 months or so.


I was, I am! Need to arrange a shelf under the house for them! Cheers fellas


----------



## Nullnvoid

After 2 months I finally bottled mine last night. I'm going to let them sit for 6 monthd before i try one.


----------



## mofox1

Nullnvoid said:


> After 2 months I finally bottled mine last night. I'm going to let them sit for 6 monthd before i try one.


No you won't... h34r:...


----------



## Nullnvoid

mofox1 said:


> No you won't... h34r:...


Whoops, I forgot the word "try" 

I'll try and leave them for 6 months!


----------



## Yob

Sure you will rummy


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Cracked one last night, almost zero carbonation except for teeny tiny steam odd ultra fine bubbles around the edge. Even with a rough pour there was no head. Very very slight glass lacing though. Will this take longer to carb due to the ABV% or after two weeks is this the highest carb it would be? Wanting to work or whether to prime a bit more or leave it be? 

Plus side is it tasted spectacular. will have my next one in a month or so!


----------



## MartinOC

The high ABV is responsible for the slow bottle carbonation & also the lack of head. It's to be expected.

Just leave it alone for a few months & then try another one.


----------



## manticle

I wouldn't add more priming sugar since what's there obviously hasn't been consumed yet.

You could try adding a small dose of healthy abv tolerant yeast but I'd wait as Martin suggested. If it's flat and sweet in 3-6 months, revisit the idea then.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Thanks fellas, will enforce patience


----------



## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Thanks fellas, will enforce patience


Yeah, I'm gonna sound like a scratched record here - This one is an exercise in patience, but it'll reward you for several years to come.

It'll take a long time to carbonate in bottles & even longer before it matures & mellows-out (6 months at LEAST). If you're careful with your handling, packaging & storage, it's something that won't start to drop-off for at least 5-6 years. Savour it slowly 'round a camp fire in the next few winters to come... Yes, Jesse, that includes YOU!! :blink:


----------



## Yob

I guess I could counter pressure fill some bottles....

Possible...


----------



## MartinOC

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
Arthur Conan Doyle
...and there I was thinking "Yob" & "Bottling" were mutually exclusive....


----------



## Damn

Ok, after a restart, I've made a 22l of porter with London Ale 1028 and to reuse the cake for the Bummock. I plan to bottle, then dump the bummock onto the cake aggressively as instructed. Then I'll re-tip the bummock into a new fermenter 12hrs later. 

Is there any benefit in cold crashing the porter 1st?
18c to ferment?
6 to 8 weeks to reach FG? When should I take my 1st gravity reading?
I normally prime with sugar scoop, I plan to fill ea scoop with 3/4 or little more for carbonation?
I am tempted to try the pseudo bulk priming method, still seems little more work in my production flow.


----------



## Yob

6-8 weeks far too long, should be done in a week like any other healthy ferment imo. 

My 1728 was doing a batch in 4 days and dropping g clear. 

Cold crashing the Porter will result in capturing the less flocculent and more attenuative yeast, a good thing.. That said, I didn't with the ones I did, didn't matter it seems.


----------



## mofox1

Yob said:


> My 1728 was doing a batch in 4 days and dropping g clear.


Aye - but your 1728 is abnormal 


Currently "Quality testing" a second bottle one month after the first QA test. Been under the house for the past month, and in the fridge for the past few days.

Appearance: Pours thick, almost syrupy, appearance is very turbid. Head dissipates quickly.
Aroma: Fusel alcohols from initial sample (3 week) have disappeared completely. Woody/earthy aroma is more prominent, with plum and prune, and cola.
Flavour: Slight alcohol (very, very, deceptive!), dominant cola, some plum and "smoky" characteristics (could just be the woody or earthy character I associate with barrel aged beers).

All that said, it looks like a murky bourbon & coke, and tastes similar too (a "malty" bourbon & coke?). I don't think my b&c's are 12% tho, or at least 700ml at a time. :chug:

On the bottling technique (yeast and sugar added to bottling bucket): There does appear to be slightly more than a "dusting" of yeast at the bottom. more a thin cohesive film. Perhaps a 1L starter was too much for bottling yeast, or maybe I didn't cold crash the primary for long enough. It was certainly carbed enough at 3 weeks, so could have gone for less yeast. Vaguely worried that the yeast may generate some off flavours over the next year. Will see.

Still haven't finished this damn beer. 330ml bottles next time.


----------



## Damn

Launched...stage-1 bummock onto cold 1028 cake, busted up the cake with the 1st litre then dumped the rest on with plenty of agitation. Getting the stage-2 vessel ready for the morning. I plan to not take my first sg till xmas. Hopefully bottl boxing day.


----------



## technobabble66

Has anyone tried WLP028 with this, or any other beer for that matter?
I've got a "starter" batch of Irish Red going ATM and it's chewing a slow 'n steady 2 points per day for almost the entire fermentation (even while blowing out the top 3 times!), the last several days of which have been at 21*c. 
Is it generally a slow and steady tortoise (a quick search would suggest so), or should I be a little concerned with the health of this batch?


----------



## Yob

So just cracked one, carb is perfect, probably a touch dry to me but what do I know about malty beers  bittering is spot on for it, head is hanging about. Definitely needs longer to meld, aroma to me isn't that great but again, I'm used to a face full of hops....

Maybe all it needs is some hop shots in it....

This is a straight version, not form the barrel.


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Maybe all it needs is some hop shots in it....


Philistine!! It's a bloody Scotch Ale! Pft...!

I'd be interested in drinking it in about 18 months, but not before.

BTW, when's the plan to decant the Whisky-barrelled versions off? Now THOSE I'm interested in trying early as a comparison to the "straight" version. Then put them in GLASS BOTTLES for a long sleep....


----------



## Yob

Ha! Ha!

I caught me a good one there.. Put that in just for you 

Decant in February I rekon, dunno,will pull a bottle out for new years, force carb it and see where it's at.. I'm happy to leave there till Feb though


----------



## antiphile

I'm just hoping Wool-yorm Wooluss comes back from the dead and treats all of you like Englishmen. h34r:


----------



## MartinOC

antiphile said:


> I'm just hoping Wool-yorm Wooluss comes back from the dead and treats all of you like Englishmen. h34r:


Who derrr wot???

Yob, are you sure you snapped the right one? That's a LOT paler than I expected & nothing like the test-batch I ran before the Bummock & even the batch of last-runnings from the main batch we did (it was definitely darker with a red hue to it)?

Edit: Erm...I think you may need to work on your sanitation.....'looks like rat droppings on the table in the background.....


----------



## Yob

Erm... Notes have never been a strong point of mine... But the lid did say bummock.. Not that that by itself is definitive.. 

Ill have a look at the others


----------



## kcurnow

Sad news on my bummock brew. It looks like mine may not have finished fermenting fully when I bottled it as I have had at least 6 exploding bottles. I got back into the brewery yesterday after being up in Qld for the last 6 weeks and there was shattered glass all over the place and brownish beer stairs on the walls from the exploding bottles. Luckily most were contained in boxes but i still have a bit of a mess to clean up. I had also turfed by remaining bummock brews just to be on the safe side. [emoji22]


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## manticle

Sorry for your loss but could have been much, much worse.


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## droid

that looks like a barley wine or something, not the scotch ale me thinks


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## MartinOC

droid said:


> that looks like a barley wine or something, not the scotch ale me thinks


I wouldn't expect a Barley Wine to have a head like that on it.


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## Grainer

Its a challenge !!


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## droid

well I did say "or something" [smiley]


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## technobabble66

Finally drained/bottled my Irish Red Ale starter batch off a WLP-028 (Edinburgh Ale) yeast cake on Tuesday (12/1/16) and poured my cube of the Kinglake Wee Heavy onto it.
Came to 23L (inc ~0.5-1L yeast). 
OG=1.088-90. 
Thermostat set to 18*C

Fwiw, threw 4L into the FV and agitated it (plus the yeast) every couple of minutes for a couple of hours, then filled up to 6L and regularly agitated for another hour, then filled up to the 23L. 
Fired up within 12 hrs. Solid krausen within 24hrs. 
Smelled pretty damn awesome. 

Fingers crossed!!


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## technobabble66

OK, i'm struggling to find the final recipe for this...
Does anyone know what finally went into the cubes? - either the full-size version or the scaled down version.
Thanks! - just trying to plug a few numbers into a spreadsheet.


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## Yob

There's the problem right there


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## MartinOC

The final recipe was 200Kg of Golden Promise (actually 175 of GP & 25kg of Maris Otter due to a bit of a stuff-up) & 1Kg of Roast Barley (actually, maybe a bit more due to another stuff-up).

I have no idea of the final volumes into the cubes.

There's also the fact that I got another brew out of the last-runnings (that were otherwise going to be ditched) of 40+L @ 1057, so there was still plenty left in the grains that didn't make it to the boiler.....


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## technobabble66

MuthaTrucka. Came home to discover the ~5L headspace was not enough. Yeast everywhere. [emoji107]
Still smells awesome [emoji106]

^^^
Cheers. 
I was already starting to suspect it might've involved a thumb or 2. [emoji57]
Especially when I came across the post describing how the RB was milled. I think it was guessed 2kg at the time...
Either way it's ~1% RB. 

Any guess on the hops addition? Was it 1.5kg to the ~202kg grain?


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## Yob

Im just having my first glass (ignoring the one I posted previously :blush: )

OH.... MY.... EFFING... God..

This is the barreled version and the aorma.. dear gods it's devine... 

Its being served pretty cold but its so bloody smooth... The Whiskey note is up front but quickly fades into the malt on the back, same on the palate, bitterness is about spot on for this and everything plays well, IM kinda glad we pulled it from the barrel when we did, any longer and it would have been over powered.

and I'm giving away a keg of this at the Highland Games? :excl: !








really needs a bit of daylight to capture it better...


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## mofox1

What you're saying is... you are going to crack one open tomorrow morning.

Just for testing and colour correction.

Right?


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## Midnight Brew

Currently at 1.018. WLP028 has cracked the 10% mark and still chugging away. Aroma of the samples is just pure evil! Can't wait!


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## Yob

Coming tmoz cam? In gunna have a barrel aged version there


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## Midnight Brew

Was meant to be coming and collecting the club shirt but it's the sister in laws birthday dinner. Can't wait to sample it!


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## Yob

So sister can wait right?


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## Nullnvoid

Ah bugger, the boys have swimming tomorrow so unless I scoot down later on I'll miss out on the tastings. Bet it's delicious!


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## Midnight Brew

Yob said:


> So sister can wait right?


Unfortunately not. She's gonna pop any day now.

A good reminder to try some bummock every birthday now.


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## Mardoo

Nullnvoid said:


> Ah bugger, the boys have swimming tomorrow so unless I scoot down later on I'll miss out on the tastings. Bet it's delicious!


It's delicious and wicked evil! Rangy, rude and off its head like a 14-year old in a UDL warehouse. Needs a bit of time to come to its senses IMO. However, when it wakes up and shakes off the hangover (causing aspects) of its youth, we shall call it Dominator.


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## technobabble66

Midnight Brew said:


> Currently at 1.018. WLP028 has cracked the 10% mark and still chugging away. Aroma of the samples is just pure evil! Can't wait!


Wow, mine's flatlined at 1.026. Haven't checked for a few days, but I don't think it'll have moved since. I used WLP028 also and the entire yeast cake from a previous beer. Bit sad it hasn't dropped more - I'd guess 1.020-22 would be perfecto for this. 
Is 1.018 a fraction too dry?


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## mofox1

1.018 to 1.020 was the sweet spot during ferment for me (based on hydro samples)... ended up at 1.014 and it wasn't as great then as it was at '18.

After three months in the bottle it was bloody perfect though. Reminds me... it's been another two months... time for another "sample"...


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## technobabble66

Sodding sod. 1.26 is far too high then. Looks like I'll have to pull out a few rousing techniques. 
Lazy fkn Scottish yeast. The feckers were keen to blaze thru the first 30-40 points and blow mess everywhere, now they're all boozy and have fallen asleep. Bastards. 

It does smell and taste like malt awesomeness, though. So they've done well there at least. 

MB, what do you mean just the aroma smells great? Aren't you tasting your hydro samples?!?


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## technobabble66

After a week of rousing yeast (i.e.: swishing the FV around a little, a few times) i have the following result:
1) SG seems to have not budged - i thought it had dropped 2 points a few days ago, but gave the same previous reading last night, 1.026.
Sad Face.
2) I have a mold infection creeping around the top lip, and seems to have *maybe* put a few little colonies onto the surface.
Double Sad Face.

So i transferred it to another FV, left ~500mL behind, which hopefully contained all the surface thingies, and i'll wait and see if the infection has been avoided spoiling the whole batch. 
Unfortunately it was a tragic story about laziness and stupidity. When the Yeast blew through the top a few weeks ago, i left some of the residue on the top of the FV. It looks like that's probably provided a starting point for the yeast, maybe. No obvious signs, but i'm guessing it would've helped get the mild established; or a bug/fruit-fly got under my glad-wrap after my rubber band broke.
So clean up after yeasty overflows, and double band the glad-wrap, seems to be the learning points here for me. 

On the plus side, IF the infection has been avoided, the transfer *may've* roused the yeasties.


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## JB

Dammit! Hope the wee brew pulls through ok Mr Techno.


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## technobabble66

Same!!
Still sad [emoji53]

Thanks for your thoughts [emoji6]
FWP!


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## Yob

Mate, if you have to drink it in a hurry ( and I'm suggesting you should) yo are gunna be one sorry techno dude..

Impromptu BBQ I suggest, get 25 folks over and smash it...


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## mofox1

Yob said:


> Mate, if you have to drink it in a hurry ( and I'm suggesting you should) yo are gunna be one sorry techno dude..
> 
> Impromptu BBQ I suggest, get 25 folks over and smash it...


Wee heavy marinated pork spit... :icon_drool2:

Should we start the list here?


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## Mardoo

Yep, I'm in. I'll bet venison would go very well with wee heavy!


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## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Mate, if you have to drink it in a hurry ( and I'm suggesting you should) yo are gunna be one sorry techno dude..
> 
> Impromptu BBQ I suggest, get 25 folks over and smash it...


You really are one hopeless Dipso!

If you get 25 people over to smash it, you'll just end-up with 25 people smashed.

Crucifiction? Good! One pint each, third door on the left.

Edit: Spelling.


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## Yob

I see no wrong in this, wash it down with an IPA, problem sorted...


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## DJ_L3ThAL

I'll drink the Cool-Aid...


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## MartinOC

I can visualise Tecno's back-yard awash with puddles of "peas & carrots", strewn with bodies in the foetal position calling for their mothers. :icon_vomit:


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## MartinOC

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> I'll drink the Cool-Aid...


It'd certainly be knocking at the Doors of Perception/Heaven & Hell.......


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## technobabble66

Don't want a cube of infected Wee Heavy, do you? No?

Mine's fkd. Mthafka!! V fkn annoyed. Still tastes awesome out of the FV, but it's got another film across the top already. The transfer to a 2nd FV seems to have done nothing, other than ensure the infection is definitely now thru the beer. 

So. Fkn. Annoyed.


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## Mardoo

Drink that thing now!


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## technobabble66

Drinking! 

But I normally have AFDs during the weekdays. 
Do you know how hard it is to just keep smashing down glasses of Wee Heavy on school nights?!?

FWP !


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## Yob

HTFU Princess...




Yob said:


> Impromptu BBQ I suggest, get 25 folks over and smash it...


or 1 Mardoo and a Martin.. Solved


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## Mardoo

You know TB, I can help you with your unfortunate problem. Just sayin'.


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## kcurnow

technobabble66 said:


> Don't want a cube of infected Wee Heavy, do you? No?
> 
> Mine's fkd. Mthafka!! V fkn annoyed. Still tastes awesome out of the FV, but it's got another film across the top already. The transfer to a 2nd FV seems to have done nothing, other than ensure the infection is definitely now thru the beer.
> 
> So. Fkn. Annoyed.


Have you thought about trying to pasturise it to kill off the infection and stop it getting any worse? It won't get rid of any off flavours already but it might help you be able to consume it over a longer period!!


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## Mardoo

Derrrr, never occurred to me…


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## Nullnvoid

That's because you were focused on the drinking Mardoo 

Not that I can blame you


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## technobabble66

Aah, you don't think heating a beer to 70-80*c won't completely screw it up??
Eg: volatize off various flavour and aroma compounds, plus alcohol, and cook whatever yeast is in suspension. 
I'd be happy to try if you think it should work. 
Hell, it might solve the attenuation problem: drop the alc% down to 2-3% and allow a 2nd yeast batch to attenuate it down to, say 1.008. 
I must admit I was wondering if I could boil a few liters down to make a sauce or caramel syrup :drool:

Or just feed it to Mardoo. 

I'm not sure how Martin will handle the sacrilege of drinking it without at least 1 year of conditioning, let alone straight out of the FV


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## kcurnow

No more so than a randomly infected beer might turn out. ;-)


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## kcurnow

Anyway drastic times call for drastic measures.


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## MartinOC

technobabble66 said:


> I'm not sure how Martin will handle the sacrilege of drinking it without at least 1 year of conditioning, let alone straight out of the FV


It's OK Stu, I've become de-sensitised & conditioned (pardon the obvious pun) to such barbaric, troglodyte practices from spending too much time around Yob.


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## Mardoo

Why, just the other day Martin pulled a keg of week-old Belgian quad out of his nose and poured and offered me a frothy flagon.


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## MartinOC

Erm...that wasn't a Belgian Quad I pulled out of my nose Mardoo. I thought the colour would've been a dead giveaway, but you seemed to savour it nonetheless.. h34r:


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## Mardoo

I thought I tasted a bit of infection.


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## technobabble66

How well do these bugs survive higher temps?
I was under the impression many die at 80+*C but spores may survive. 
Would I need to do the triple cook thing?


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## Mardoo

I've heard of folks having success bottling in stubbies and running them through a hot dishwasher. That was for mead to stop ferment. Haven't done it myself. 

In my searches I haven't been able to find mention of yeasts that can survive temps above about 60C for any length of time. If you want to give your washer a go and want to find out how hot the beer would get, fill three stubbies with water and run them through the cycle, pulling one out at the end of the wash, one the rinse, and one the dry and check the temp of the water inside the bottle as soon as you pull it out. .


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## Yob

Photos.. Will need photos of this...


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## technobabble66

On which thing in particular? The Dishwasher Wee Heavy?


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## Yob

..after heavy drinking wee heavy. What can possibly go wrong?


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## Grainer

Freeze it.. even better..shear the cells and concentrate it


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## kcurnow

Grainer said:


> Freeze it.. even better..shear the cells and concentrate it


Wee Heavysicles?


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## MartinOC

Yob said:


> ..after heavy drinking wee heavy. What can possibly go wrong?


Well, anecdotally, I can report severe memory loss, sleepwalking, suspected broken bones, aggressive tendencies, mood-swings, loss of libido & Brownie points.

Whose stupid idea was this stuff anyway?

Did I mention memory loss?


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## technobabble66

Brewnut said:


> Wee Heavysicles?


Better than Heavy Wee-sicles, at least. [emoji185]


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## technobabble66

My infected, flat, *unconditioned* Wee Heavy: Significantly better than the James Squire: Rogue IPA, Summer ale, Amber ale and Hop Thief. 

Just sayin'. 

Admittedly may not be setting the bar very high. 

I cried a little inside to find the Hop Thief to be so average. From the JS bar in the city, no less!! It was once a good beer!

EDIT: Did I mention under-attenuated? Finished 6-8 points too high. Still better. 

Shame. JS. Shame.


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## Yob

MartinOC said:


> Well, anecdotally, I can report severe memory loss, sleepwalking, suspected broken bones, aggressive tendencies, mood-swings, loss of libido & Brownie points.
> 
> Whose stupid idea was this stuff anyway?
> 
> Did I mention memory loss?


Im honestly surprised that you would have gone through all these as the beer isn't yet old enough to be appreciated as I understood my lessons


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## MartinOC

I've been pulling a pint (tantamount to excessive consumption!) every now & then to test clarity before the planned CBBF'ing, but the fucker hasn't cleared!!!


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Keep going, it will clear :beer:


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## technobabble66

The beer or the keg?


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## Yob

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Keep going, it will clear :beer:


genuine lol..

Yeah Martin.. HTFU


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## MartinOC

Yeah, just before the keg blows.....

Wait!.............. Shit! Did I just admit to drinking a wee-heavy from a keg.....by the pint??? No wonder I've cut-back on the codeine recently :super:

I'm having a glass now.


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## Yob

photos or it didn't happen


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## MartinOC

No Photo's. Dunno how to fly my fingers other than to pick up a glass right now. 

Or proffer two fingers rampant.


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## Yob

You uncouth, UN-civilized philistine.. drinking such a beer this young... 

\ed: but ******* delightfilly live young right?


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## MartinOC

It's DANGEROUS!


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## Yob

I think you see me now..


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## MartinOC

Indeed.

There are too many colours.

KISS


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## Yob

Ive only had 3 Pints of mine.. I think it needs another month t develop...


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## MartinOC

Add 12-18+. In a bottle.

Patience.


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## Damn

I bottled my mine about 8 weeks ago, anyone reckon I could sample yet?


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## Yob

Yes.. What's wrong with you man.. 

Martin's almost finished his the UN cultured heathen...


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Ive been having one every month and man its improving. Was awesome to start with but can definitely taste and appreciate what time does to it!! 52 months to go......


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## droid

mine was blended as a 20% addition to a barrel aged RIS which got on the podium at beerfest so while i wouldn't enter a swap meet beer in a comp i think a blend is ok especially if represents only 1/5th of the beer h34r:

it must have been a good 1/5

i'd love to try a bottle of the wee heavy if someone would like to swap for a bottle of this bourbon barrel RIS - we could swap at the <edit - Vic ~ Grainer> bulk buy?

yob i owe you two bottles if you want it - no swap required there, it is quite bourbon'esk still


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## Yob

Get your arse up to the Highland Games, I'm giving away a keg of the barrel aged bummock


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## droid

bloody 'ell !
<ed - 3rd April)
well that's a date to remember, i'll put it on our "to do jobs/calendar" whiteboard thingy - cheers mate, hope to make it :chug:


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## droid

got the perfect girl to take to such an event to...your typical feisty Scot'...she might be young but she's no pushover


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Happy to swap you a bottle droid! I'm still working out what grains I need (want) from the buy but will be getting something fo sho.


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## droid

done - thanks deej !

be interesting to try/taste some different ferments

i got 70 ltrs so no probs swapping a few here and there


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## Nullnvoid

So I bottled this 8 months ago and had the patience to leave it and was going to taste it after 6 months.......which turned into 8 months because I forgot about it  Anyway, holy fuckballs batman, this was delicious and not as green as I was expecting. Was going to have 1 bottle at a time every 6 months, but maybe I'll have 2 bottles.....every 2 days instead.

Nah going to get another bottle and then sample in another 6 months.


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## MartinOC

'Sounds like you you did a good job on this one.

I tasted a couple of examples last weekend. Yob's reeked of menthol & other medicinal nasties :wacko: . AJ80's was just what I was expecting, but was flat as a tack. Over time, it may get the carbonation required.

Try a bottle every 4-6 months or so to get how it travels. I've found these fella's take about 18 months to hit a peak & then a loooong time to hit their straps.

Enjoy!!


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## mofox1

MartinOC said:


> 'Sounds like you you did a good job on this one.
> 
> I tasted a couple of examples last weekend. Yob's reeked of menthol & other medicinal nasties :wacko: . AJ80's was just what I was expecting, but was flat as a tack. Over time, it may get the carbonation required.
> 
> Try a bottle every 4-6 months or so to get how it travels. I've found these fella's take about 18 months to hit a peak & then a loooong time to hit their straps.
> 
> Enjoy!!


Will need to pull one of mine out tonight.. last one was choc full of cola, plum and what I can only describe as autumn leaves, with a slight smokey/tobacco taste.

Life is great with good beer.


----------



## Nullnvoid

MartinOC said:


> 'Sounds like you you did a good job on this one.
> 
> I tasted a couple of examples last weekend. Yob's reeked of menthol & other medicinal nasties :wacko: . AJ80's was just what I was expecting, but was flat as a tack. Over time, it may get the carbonation required.
> 
> Try a bottle every 4-6 months or so to get how it travels. I've found these fella's take about 18 months to hit a peak & then a loooong time to hit their straps.
> 
> Enjoy!!


Maybe but I also don't know what the market talking about half the time . But it certainly tasted alright to me, I might put it into Vic brew. Get some more professional opinion on it. 

I must say it was nicely carbonated. And only used one teaspoon for a 500ml. 

The only thing that concerns me long term was I put it into pet and then afterwards read that long term storage in pet isn't that good and it can lose carbonation.


----------



## MartinOC

Nullnvoid said:


> I might put it into Vic brew. Get some more professional opinion on it.


No-one at Vicbrew gets paid (free lunch & free beer notwithstanding), but you'll certainly get objective assessment of it.


----------



## Nullnvoid

MartinOC said:


> No-one at Vicbrew gets paid (free lunch & free beer notwithstanding), but you'll certainly get objective assessment of it.


Our definitions of professional are slightly different .


----------



## Midnight Brew

Cracked a bottle tonight and very happy with it. Pours with just the right amount of spritz and bugger all head. Smooth, sweet and malty. No hot or alcohol overtones, just sweet rich malt. 

I'm gonna have the brew this again. Boy oh boy


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## Mardoo

I submitted my cube for Jesse's barrelled batch, which ended up becoming his suspicious barrel which is quite funky. The wee heavy from it was pretty damn odd at first, but now after nearly a year in the keg it's getting to be somewhat like a very big, very malty Flanders Red. Another six months and I'm guessing it'll be drinking very nicely.


----------



## Mardoo

Anyone remember Jesse's Suspicious Barrel? This. Is. Sweet. As. 




An adult beer. Figuring since I can't send myself to 2017 Xmas in July, I'll send this. It's gonna **** you up. Even Martin OC might drink it.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

dat colour, daaaamn


----------



## malt junkie

Damn that looks pretty and yummy. Love the sharing.


----------



## Mardoo

Yeah, it's pretty spot on. For something. Or other.


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## Mardoo

It seems I neglected to remember that beer is up around 12%! Those two pints really laid the hammer on.


----------

