# Wheat Beer - Secret Ingredient?



## eddy401 (19/7/10)

G'day

im thinking of doing a 'thomas coopers wheat beer' and adding something to it to try make it a bit more unique, any ideas? im still fairly new to brewing so simple ideas would be appreciated :icon_cheers: is the yeast in this kit good enough? does anyone know what effects adding vanilla extract would have - i added a squeezy bottle of lemon extract on impulse to my last brew (coopers mex cerveza) and that actually turned out perfectly, just the right amount of lemon taste for me. Honey to make a kind of beez knees perhaps? and i dont know anything about hopps, how to add them or their effects, i dont do a boil i dont have the equipment or time at the moment, but i am planning on racking it for a week or two after fermentation, so what would be a good and easy one to use?

cheers in advance! :drinks:


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## seemax (19/7/10)

If you're looking for that unique wheat beer flavour it's all about the yeast.

Saf WB-06 does a decent rendition but Wyeast 3068 or Bavarian Wit (can't recall the number) provide the real deal.


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## unrealeous (19/7/10)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...t=6&start=0

I'm making a wheat beer now with this yeast - apparently its all about the pitching temp



SAH said:


> I pitched WB-06 at 9C and let it rise and ferment at 18C.
> 
> This beer was a hit at a recent IBUs meet and with everyone else that has tried it. Good balance of clove, bubblegum and bananna. Not tart.
> 
> It's amazing how simple and good this recipe is - no acid rest, no protein rest, no decoction...


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## mahonya1 (19/7/10)

Spend a bit extra on some decent yeast. I have used both wyeast 3068 and 3638 with good results. The 3068 seems to be everyone's favorite, but if you like more of a bubblegum flavour go the 3638. You won't be dissapointed with either way.


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## waggastew (19/7/10)

My next planned brew is a Thomas Coopers Wheat which will be ready for summer. The traditional additions are dried bitter orange peel (or you can use the peel of normal oranges with some success) and coriander seeds. I got my hands on some German wheat beer yeast as the yeast is a big contributor to this style of beer. I do also however plan to bottle half the batch after the primary ferment and then add in some passionfruit pulp from my garden and let it ferment out again. This should hopefully work out OK, I have read alot of info on adding other fruit to wheat beers including rasberries etc. Either way I will end up with half a batch of traditional and half a batch of 'Well lets see how this tastes......'


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## warra48 (20/7/10)

All good advice in these responses.

One question: Why do you want to rack it for a week or two after fermentation? What do you hope to achieve with this?


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## Silo Ted (20/7/10)

Consider coriander seed if you want a different twist to your wheat beers. To be used sparingly.


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## MeLoveBeer (20/7/10)

Mahony said:


> Spend a bit extra on some decent yeast. I have used both wyeast 3068 and 3638 with good results. The 3068 seems to be everyone's favorite, but if you like more of a bubblegum flavour go the 3638. You won't be dissapointed with either way.



+1

3638 adds great flavours to your beer (just be prepared to clean up because this yeast likes to make a mess); a word of warning though, I've found that this yeast greatly reduces the volume going into kegs/bottles (it tastes great and you'll find yourself testing/tasting out of the fermenter often)


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## StewTurner (20/7/10)

Another vote for getting a really good yeast. I have a wheat beer with 3068 in the fermenter right now. It's ready to bottle (just wiating for a mate to return my bench capper), and it tastes great out of the fermenter. It has a nice banana aroma, and a tart finish.

My last wheat beer I made with WB-06. It's a dried yeast, and easy to use, but doesn't have the same character as the 3068. I bottled half, and to the remaining half added 700 grams of frozen raspberries. It has made a really nice raspberry beer, which my wife loves. So those would be my two suggestions, either use 3068, or add some raspberries after the primary fermentation is complete.


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## glaab (20/7/10)

another vote for 3638 :icon_drool2: . A mate brought over some wheaties a couple of weeks back, nice but more of a summer beer I reckon, in the cold weather something a touch heavier is the go IMO. But you might be in New York for all I know..


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## zoidbergmerc (20/7/10)

Personally I think the Thomas Coopers Wheat beer was revolting, The brewcraft Bavarian wheat is a lot better.


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## earle (20/7/10)

waggastew said:


> My next planned brew is a Thomas Coopers Wheat which will be ready for summer. The traditional additions are dried bitter orange peel (or you can use the peel of normal oranges with some success) and coriander seeds. I got my hands on some German wheat beer yeast as the yeast is a big contributor to this style of beer. I do also however plan to bottle half the batch after the primary ferment and then add in some passionfruit pulp from my garden and let it ferment out again. This should hopefully work out OK, I have read alot of info on adding other fruit to wheat beers including rasberries etc. Either way I will end up with half a batch of traditional and half a batch of 'Well lets see how this tastes......'



When you say traditional I think you mean Witbier which is the more recently popularised (in comparison to the German style) Belgian take on wheat beer. German weizen/weissbier does not usually have additions of citrus peel or spice. If you haven't already, check out the BJCP guidelines for some more info Witbier Weizen I think a weizen would be more suited to fruit additions, not sure how they would go the coriander/citrus.


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## eddy401 (20/7/10)

I have racked once before, but that beer isnt ready so not sure of how it changes the taste, but people seem to say its a good idea - my main reason for racking this one though is so i have more time to drink my way through some bottles, also i read earlier that some people rack half and bottle half - so i think ill do that so i can compare the basic wheat beer with whatever i add in the racking fermente
what do you think?



warra48 said:


> All good advice in these responses.
> 
> One question: Why do you want to rack it for a week or two after fermentation? What do you hope to achieve with this?


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## Nick JD (20/7/10)

If you want a great german wheat then whacking two 1.5kg Coopers Wheat Malt cans into a fermenter dissolved with an hour long boil of 20g of Halertau hops in 3L ... and then throw in cold water to 23L and a pack of 3068 ... you'll be in beer heaven. 

Gelatine it at FG and you've got a kristallweizen if you want it clear. 

Replace the 3068 with T58 and throw in some spices and peel for a belgian wheat. 

Too easy! :icon_cheers:


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## eddy401 (20/7/10)

Thank Nick that sounds like a good one to try when i get a chance, just to clarify (i havnt done a boil before :blink: ) you just boil water for 60 mins with the hops in there from the start? 



Nick JD said:


> If you want a great german wheat then whacking two 1.5kg Coopers Wheat Malt cans into a fermenter dissolved with an hour long boil of 20g of Halertau hops in 3L ... and then throw in cold water to 23L and a pack of 3068 ... you'll be in beer heaven.
> 
> Gelatine it at FG and you've got a kristallweizen if you want it clear.
> 
> ...


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## StewTurner (20/7/10)

Nick JD said:


> If you want a great german wheat then whacking two 1.5kg Coopers Wheat Malt cans into a fermenter dissolved with an hour long boil of 20g of Halertau hops in 3L ... and then throw in cold water to 23L and a pack of 3068 ... you'll be in beer heaven.



This is exactly what I have in my fermenter at the moment. Smells great, and the hydrometer samples are very drinkable. I am looking forward to this one.

Regarding your question twardo, what you need to do is boil 3 liters of water, and add 300 grams of the wheat malt extract. When that is boiling, add the hops and boil for an hour. The amount of malt in the water is important because it influences the efficiency of the hop utilisation. Basically, you want about 100 grams per liter. Ths wil give a gravity of around 1040, which gives high efficiency in the hop extraction.

After an hour, turn off the heat, add the rest of the malt extract to dissolve, add to the fermenter, pitch the yeast and ferment at about 19 degrees. You might need to chill the wort before you add it to the fermenter (put the pot in a sink of ice water to do it quick).


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## Nick JD (20/7/10)

Stew the Cat said:


> ... boil 3 liters of water, and add 300 grams of the wheat malt extract.



Oops, yeah - get some stuff in the boil!

I find a kg of dried malt extract is handy here because you don't have to try to get 300g of liquid malt out and leave the other 1200g dribbling all over the place and getting bugs and nasties on it in the hour of the boil. 

That said, it's still quite possible to extract hop bitterness in a 1.000 SG boil. Doesn't smell as nice though.


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## drsmurto (20/7/10)

Nick JD said:


> Oops, yeah - get some stuff in the boil!
> 
> I find a kg of dried malt extract is handy here because you don't have to try to get 300g of liquid malt out and leave the other 1200g dribbling all over the place and getting bugs and nasties on it in the hour of the boil.
> 
> That said, it's still quite possible to extract hop bitterness in a 1.000 SG boil. Doesn't smell as nice though.



Play around with beersmith (and other brewing calculators) and see what the SG does to hop utilisation.

Using 1kg in 3L which greatly reduce the IBU in the resulting beer.


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## kiwiev (20/7/10)

Stew the Cat said:


> This is exactly what I have in my fermenter at the moment. Smells great, and the hydrometer samples are very drinkable. I am looking forward to this one.
> 
> Regarding your question twardo, what you need to do is boil 3 liters of water, and add 300 grams of the wheat malt extract. When that is boiling, add the hops and boil for an hour. The amount of malt in the water is important because it influences the efficiency of the hop utilisation. Basically, you want about 100 grams per liter. Ths wil give a gravity of around 1040, which gives high efficiency in the hop extraction.
> 
> After an hour, turn off the heat, add the rest of the malt extract to dissolve, add to the fermenter, pitch the yeast and ferment at about 19 degrees. You might need to chill the wort before you add it to the fermenter (put the pot in a sink of ice water to do it quick).



hey there very interesting post, sounds just what I'm looking for, so no dextrose or sugars of any kind required then, I am a huge favourite of Erdinger weisbeer


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## np1962 (20/7/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Play around with beersmith (and other brewing calculators) and see what the SG does to hop utilisation.
> 
> Using 1kg in 3L which greatly reduce the IBU in the resulting beer.


Not wanting to speak for Nick, but he probably meant if you have a kilo of dry malt extract you can add 300gm to 3 litres without making a hell of a mess as you would trying to use part of a can of liquid. Keep the other 700gm for later brews.
Cheers 
Nige


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## eddy401 (20/7/10)

thanks for all the info!

i ended up using morgans golden sheaf wheat beer with 1.5kg of morgans wheat malt extract on the advice of the HBS owner, just as a standard kit to try give myself a bit of a base to compare future brews with different yeasts, but i think ill put some vanilla in half of it and bottle the other half to see how that turns out

thanks again! :icon_cheers:


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## beerdrinkingbob (20/7/10)

just wondering where you can buy 3068 or 3638 they sound great, had a look on G&G and brewcraft and they only appear to stock safwheat


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## glaab (20/7/10)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> just wondering where you can buy 3068 or 3638 they sound great, had a look on G&G and brewcraft and they only appear to stock safwheat



try here; http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1640


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## beerdrinkingbob (20/7/10)

glaab said:


> try here; http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1640



Thanks Glaab :icon_cheers:


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## waggastew (20/7/10)

earle said:


> When you say traditional I think you mean Witbier which is the more recently popularised (in comparison to the German style) Belgian take on wheat beer. German weizen/weissbier does not usually have additions of citrus peel or spice. If you haven't already, check out the BJCP guidelines for some more info Witbier Weizen I think a weizen would be more suited to fruit additions, not sure how they would go the coriander/citrus.



Your right in that I am aiming more for a Belgian (Hoegaarden) style of wheat beer. Apologies if I confused things. Will post on here the results of the passionfruit version in a couple of months.


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## jakub76 (20/7/10)

If you're doing a wit then don't be shy with your spices. The coriander seeds (ground with a mortar and pestle) are great but I only added a few teaspoons. If I was doing it again I'd add around 12 grams for a 22 litre batch - those thin masterfoods jars are 18 grams worth. Also don't bust a gut finding bitter orange peel - fresh citrus zest is so much better, use the small side of your grater and zest a few oranges and maybe a grapefruit or lemon.
Best


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## StewTurner (20/7/10)

kiwiev said:


> hey there very interesting post, sounds just what I'm looking for, so no dextrose or sugars of any kind required then, I am a huge favourite of Erdinger weisbeer




Hi Kiwiev,

Nope, no dextrose at all, just malt extract. It might finish at a higher gravity than a 'kit and kilo' brew (mine finished around 1020). It's an easy procedure, no more complicated than making a Cup-a-Soup (except you boil it for an hour). Give it a bash. Send me a PM, or reply to tis thread if you don't understand the full procedure. I would happily give you a step-by-step guide. The people on this forum have given me so much information for free that I would love to return something to new brewers.

Regarding the flavour, I haven't bought a commercial wheat beer for ages, but I did live in Germany for a while, and I suspect that this will be comparable to any good german Weizen.

Cheers,

Stew


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## MeLoveBeer (20/7/10)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> just wondering where you can buy 3068 or 3638 they sound great, had a look on G&G and brewcraft and they only appear to stock safwheat



I regularly buy wyeast (including 3638) from G&G... try this link


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## StewTurner (20/7/10)

Also, the other thing that I would say to the OP (and other new brewers, like myself) is that the 'secret ingredient' to elevate your beer to new heights is not lurking on the shelves of your local Coles. Beer essentially consists of four ingredients:

Water
Malt
Hops
Yeast

The key to great beer lies in those ingredients, not in vanilla essence, treacle, coriander or Bulla Chocolate Ice cream. You can add all kinds of stuff to your beer, but the best things you can do are:

Use better yeast
Control the temperature of your fermentation
Use real hops
Use malt extract
Add specialty grains (crystal malt)

All these things sound like complicated alchemy, but they are SO EASY. I have brewed about 5 batches, and I am turning out extract brews that are (hand on my heart) better than anything I can buy. It is a piece of piss. You can make awesome extraact brews right now. You don't have to 'serve your time' on 'kit and kilo' brews (I did one, then switched to extract). You can start making awesome extract beer today.

I'm happy to offer what (limited) knowledge I have to anyone who wants to step up to extracts. It is just so cool to crack a beer and realise that it craps on most commercial berers. I guarantee a response to PMs from anyone who wants help. (And I guarantee that when I get a question that I can't answer that I will refer it to the wiser heads on AHB.)

Best hobby ever.

Cheers,

Stew


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## jakub76 (21/7/10)

Stew - nice post..."best hobby ever" ...well it's got to be close. I love your enthusiasm!

I remember a few years ago sampling Franziskaner Hefeweizen for the first time and remarking how interesting the flavour was, "Is it cloves...tastes like cloves!" 
Someone enlightened me about the German purity law, they're a bureaucratic bunch, only malt, hops, water & yeast (once they worked it out) + all weizen need to be at least 50% wheat. I was astounded, how could something so clovey contain no cloves? So it turns out the secret ingredient is the yeast...well kind of...it's a strain of yeast that needs the wheat and the ferulic acid it produces in the mash to create these incredible clove flavours. The Belgians couldn't work it out so they just threw a bunch of spices into their wheat beers - and that's cool too, I love Hoegaarden - hence the Wit.

Also I feel I need to say...if you've been brewing for 6 months and feel your brews are better than anything you can buy than THAT'S AWSOME ***double thumbs up*** but I reckon you should broaden your horizons. There's thousands of different brands brewing around a hundred different styles. There's an inspiring world of beer out there...get some :beer:


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## Tezz (22/7/10)

If you choose to use WB-06, always ferment @ 20C+. Below that, it'll taste like shit 
I found Wyeast Weihen & Bav do this too.

I'm planning to add some mixed berries & manuka honey to this summers wheats.
Maybe some Nelson Sauvin towards the end too.


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## jakub76 (22/7/10)

> If you choose to use WB-06, always ferment @ 20C+. Below that, it'll taste like shit smile.gif
> I found Wyeast Weihen & Bav do this too.



I disagree. I love a hefe, I use the wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephaner) fermenting at 18 then finishing at 20. I have even pitched this yeast at 12C once to test out a theory I heard on the brewing network from JZ - the 30 degrees C rule. Some old brewer told Jamil that when making a weizen the sum of your pitching temp and your ferment temp should be 30C...example pitch at 12C and ferment at 18C. He swears by it, says it had a huge impact on his beers. 
A bit hocus pocus for me, but I tried it. 

Every weizen I make I ferment under 20C and they don't taste like shit. Of the two distinct yeast derived flavours - cloves and banana - a hot ferment will promote the banana while a cooler ferment will highlight the cloves. The choice you make is a matter of taste.


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## GrumpyPaul (22/7/10)

I dont even pretend I know what I am doing yet....but heres a simple kit/extract recipe I tried.

It was my first go a something other than a straight kit. 

I didnt even know what a Hoegarden was at the time - but I am told I accidentally made something like it.

I like to think it was pretty good. A few guys at Melbourne Brewers tasted it and gave some good feedback. I fermented it at about 22-23 and should have done it a lot cooler I'm told 18 would have been better.

If you looking for something that is a bit more than a kit and something like a wheat beer - this is worth trying

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...7&hl=orange


Like I said - I am still learning......but happy to pass on what I have tried.


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## unrealeous (23/7/10)

warra48 said:


> One question: Why do you want to rack it for a week or two after fermentation? What do you hope to achieve with this?


So when is the best time to start drinking this stuff? As soon as it hits FG? I've heard it's better fresh... But I would have thought some conditioning might do it some good (even if its only a few days).


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## warra48 (23/7/10)

unrealeous said:


> So when is the best time to start drinking this stuff? As soon as it hits FG? I've heard it's better fresh... But I would have thought some conditioning might do it some good (even if its only a few days).



Start drinking when it's carbonated, although I bottle all my brews.
If you keg, then others will have better ideas.


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## bconnery (23/7/10)

warra48 said:


> Start drinking when it's carbonated, although I bottle all my brews.
> If you keg, then others will have better ideas.


No, your advice is correct for kegs too. 
Start drinking when it's carbonated


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## Pennywise (23/7/10)

Yep, as soon as a wheatie is carbed, drink it. Dunno why but wheat beers tend to lose their character pretty quickly. I my experience any more than a month after it's carbed and they can become quite flavourless


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## marksy (23/7/10)

Grated orange peel skin 1cup and 10g crushed corriander 5-10mins before end of boil and for 23L.


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## gap (23/7/10)

marksy said:


> Grated orange peel skin 1cup and 10g crushed corriander 5-10mins before end of boil and for 23L.




Sounds good if you were brewing a Belgian Wit, not necessarily as good
if you are brewing a German Wheat Beer.

Regards


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## unrealeous (23/7/10)

bconnery said:


> No, your advice is correct for kegs too.
> Start drinking when it's carbonated


Great advice - except that doesn't answer the question. I know you weren't trying to though...



warra48 said:


> One question: Why do you want to rack it for a week or two after fermentation? What do you hope to achieve with this?



Most recipes say secondary it for a couple of weeks then carb. It would appear if you are bottling, then bottle straight after primary, and drink as soon as carbed. If you are kegging though - do people generally give it a couple of weeks in the secondary (which most of the recipes in the database suggest), then carb and drink?


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## earle (23/7/10)

A lot of the characteristic flavours for a weizen come from the yeast which is why its best fresh. While some recipes suggest racking this could reduce the impact of the yeast. Probably depends on your preference, similar to how some people would pour a coopers carefully of the yeast for drinking while others will roll the bottle to swirl the yeast back into suspension and get the full yeasty flavour.


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