# Boiling Hops In Hop Bags Or Just Chuck Them In?



## BjornJ (23/12/09)

Hi,
going to the ISB brew day some weeks ago, I got my first glimpse of non-BIAB brewing.
Only having done a handful of brews and then always BIAB, I have always added the hops to small bags and boiled them in these. The kind of netting gift bags that cost like $3 for 3-5 in those 1 dollar stores.
Like small grain bags,basically.

I have just been doing this without really thinking to much about it, then at Crozdog's (who have a way bigger, better setup) I noticed the hops were just floating around on the surface and still after draining the kettle they were all left in the kettle, not in the cubes.

What do others do, boil hops freely or in bags?

For the record, I make sure there is plenty of space in the bags for the hops to "expand" with the hot water thinking this makes sure I don't loose any good stuff, but letting them boil freely floating around still looked like it made more sense.

thanks
Bjorn


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## mika (23/12/09)

Boil Free or Die !


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## Tony (23/12/09)

mmm i tried many dag and hop restraint devices but they are better to go free willy IMO.

I have a false bottom in the kettle that catches them.

cheers


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## big78sam (23/12/09)

Tony said:


> mmm i tried many dag and hop restraint devices but they are better to go free willy IMO.
> 
> I have a false bottom in the kettle that catches them.
> 
> cheers



What about BIAB in an urn. Will they end up in the cube if using NC?


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## Tony (23/12/09)

I have found i ger a higher bitterness from No chill... especiall when i use late hops so drop your IBU's a couple points and dont worry about them in the cube... that wont hurt.

cheers


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## Bribie G (24/12/09)

I use a hopsock which sounds like a floppy woosy little thing but is actually very robust. I've got the coarser-mesh one and when boiling in the urn, you can see that the contents are getting a good boil and rousing. Even though it's coarse mesh it still traps hop pellet sludge very effectively. Best twenty bucks I've spent in the brewery.


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## BjornJ (24/12/09)

BribieG,
yes, that looks like a good solution.


It looks like a bigger, more robust version of the ones I use.

The benefit of using any kind of bag is like what Tony mentioned, I can pick up the hop bags a couple of minutes after flame-out and know there will be no more bittering going on. (if doing No Chill)

Are there BIAB'ers brewing in an urn here who boil the hops freely and find that this is not a problem?


The ones I use look like this:




edit:

For the record, this is not my picture. Got it from Google.
It doesn't usually involve that many candles and stuff when I brew


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## seemax (24/12/09)

I've added hops directly into the urn. No real problems and you can still do a decent whirlpool.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (24/12/09)

I tried a hop sock like BribieG's and did not like it. I just don't like it. Having said that, I will probably try it over what remains of the summer months to see if I still don't like it.

I expect that the compounds that will make more bitter in the no-chill cube have already left the hops by the time you're decanting into cube, so I don't think the hop sock changes much there.

I whirlpool manually (none of Thirsty Boy's power-drill madness for me) and leave a few litres behind, but only get hops in the cube if I put them in there on porpoise...


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## peter.brandon (24/12/09)

BjornJ said:


> BribieG,
> yes, that looks like a good solution.
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Bjorn,

I just leave them free in the kettle, i chill with a copper wort chiller and most drop to the bottom so dont transfer to the fermenter. I have though done many brews where through lasiness just transfered everything hops, trub and all to the fermenter. You and many in our brewclub have tried those beers and not resulted in any off tastes.

You are a purist my friend - hop bags, filtering etc etc !!!

Keep it up!!!

Cheers,
Plyers


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## manticle (24/12/09)

I add them straight in. Usually I leave most behind in the kettle but occasionally I've thrown the lot in the fermenter. Mostly settles out, now harm done if I get a hop floatie in 1 glass out of 20.



SpillsMostOfIt said:


> but only get hops in the cube if I put them in there on porpoise...



I keep my porpoise in the swimming pool as I find he has a detrimental effect on head retention.


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## raven19 (24/12/09)

I no chill, and sometimes use the 'pseudo' hopsock, ususally I just throw the hops into the kettle.

All ends up in the no chill cube with no ill effects imo.

It all drops out as part of the trub when fermenting in any case.


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## absinthe (24/12/09)

i wasn't using them but have been having trouble with my plate chiller bocking up .. soooooooo i will be using them shortly, just got my mum to bang me out 10, i have been thinking of weighting them and tyeing them to the side so they stay about 1/2 way down the kettle


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## Fourstar (24/12/09)

Send your hops in commando, they will thank you for it.

As for hop sludge, a simple whirlpool at the end of the boil, rest for 10 and siphon to the cube yeilds minor amounts of hot break and hop sludge from the boil kettle. To counter-act the lack of hops in the cube, i usually add 40g or so to it! :lol: 

Mmmmmm cube hop, soo much flavour! :icon_drool2:


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## t2000kw (24/12/09)

I've read (don't remember where) that keeping the hops in a bag prevents them from rolling freely in the boil and reduces hop utilization somewhat. If it hasn't caused you problems using a hop boiling bag, then continue using one. 

I grow my own hops so I use whole hops. I let them roll around freely since it's so easy to filter them out with a kitchen colander when pouring out the cooled wort from the kettle into the fermenter. (I use an immersion chiller.) I've used a hop bag before when using plug hops but I never did an A-B comparison to see if I could notice the difference in bittering from reduced utilization when using the bag. 

I have noticed that there is some wort loss when using whole hops. The leaves soak up some wort. I don't know how to compensate for this so I just make up any difference by adding water to top up the fermenter.


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## BjornJ (24/12/09)

Plyers said:


> Hey Bjorn,
> 
> I just leave them free in the kettle, i chill with a copper wort chiller and most drop to the bottom so dont transfer to the fermenter. I have though done many brews where through lasiness just transfered everything hops, trub and all to the fermenter. You and many in our brewclub have tried those beers and not resulted in any off tastes.
> 
> ...




Mate, nothing wrong with your beers, that's for sure.
The jury is stll out on this one, hop sock or not. I like the looks of the big one BribieG has, maybe I should get one of those. It looks big enough to allow the hops to have plenty of water around them and still get most of the sludge out of there.

Bought a new 40 litre Birko today so will brew something over Christmas,

thanks
Bjorn


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## Jazzafish (24/12/09)

Pellets straight in, as mentioned whirlpool helps keep the trub (boil dregs) out of the cube/fermenter.

I tend to use a hop sock for plugs or whole hops as I don't have a false bottom in my kettle and they tend to clog up my tap despite a whirlpool. saves a little trouble I guess. Alternatively I use my mash tun as a hop back instead of big flame out additions... not much good to a BIAB urn though.


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## brenjak (24/12/09)

BjornJ said:


> Mate, nothing wrong with your beers, that's for sure.
> The jury is stll out on this one, hop sock or not. I like the looks of the big one BribieG has, maybe I should get one of those. It looks big enough to allow the hops to have plenty of water around them and still get most of the sludge out of there.
> 
> Bought a new 40 litre Birko today so will brew something over Christmas,
> ...



Bribie can confirm but it looks like a craftbrewer hopsock. I have one but did not use it for my first AG. There is no 2nd AG yet....


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## Bribie G (24/12/09)

Early on in the piece I just chucked the 60 grams additions of hop pellets into the urn to see what would happen, and ended up with a lot of hop sludge which just sat in a cloudy 'layer' filling about a quarter of the urn, and even though I had used whirlfloc and let everything sit before running off into the cube it was still murky and green into the cube. Normally I get crystal clear wort into the cube. 
Maybe plugs or flowers (NZ) would turn out better, provided the spent flowers sink below the tap outlet level.

Another solution when using pellets might be to run the wort through a funnel packed with flowers or plugs that have been boiled to 'hydrate' them - in other words a hop back. However I find the hopsock is so easy why bother. Another good thing about the hopsock, if you are suspending it off a skyhook, is that several times during the boil you can hoist it for a few minutes and let all that hoppy worty goodness drain out into the boil, then dunk it again like a mega teabag.

Everybody jiggling


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## Batz (24/12/09)

I have found I loose a heap of hop bitterness/flavour using a hopsock, I do have the fine one though. I now just increase the amount of hops if using my hopsock and find that fixes the problem, they are useful when chilling through my CCFC.
I really should give the bigger mesh bag a try, rather borrow one than buy one guys :lol: I suppose a hop stopper in the kettle would be the best all the same.

Batz


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## pdilley (24/12/09)

I always throw the hops straight into the kettle for the boil.

I use a large stainless steel racking cane with a long piece of heavy duty silicon tubing to transfer and get to control sludge or not by simply not dipping the end of the cane into the sludge.

It couldn't be simpler and no need to drill holes in the kettle so I can resell on when upgrading pot sizes.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Bribie G (24/12/09)

The reason I bought the coarse one was that the fine variety was out of stock with Craftbrewer at the time. Glad I did. Next brew I'll post a piccie of the contents of the bag during and after boiling and post on this thread.


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## Batz (24/12/09)

BribieG said:


> The reason I bought the coarse one was that the fine variety was out of stock with Craftbrewer at the time. Glad I did. Next brew I'll post a piccie of the contents of the bag during and after boiling and post on this thread.




Good move 

Batz


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## Pumpy (24/12/09)

My hops prefer to go Commando in my wort  

pumpy


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## gjhansford (24/12/09)

To quote Kramer ... "I'm unfetted ...I'm out there ...and I'm free :beerbang:


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## Bribie G (28/12/09)

Contents of drained hopsock after 90 min boil of 45g of pellets and 20g added 10 mins. This is the 'coarse' hopsock and retained all the crud - wort tastes great.


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## Fantoman (29/12/09)

I generally use a hopsock, but on the weekend decided to let the hops run free... :blink: 

Word of warning, I would recommend against just chucking in whole flowers unless you have a hopscreen or similar - I ended up with a flower stuck in the tap of my urn and had to syphon the contents out as the tap was completely blocked (this was after whirlpooling as well). Made for a very frustrating brew day! :angry:


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## zebba (29/12/09)

So what about dryhopping? Chuck em straight in? Sock? Sock + weight? Tea?


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## Tyred (29/12/09)

Teaball or free. I normally just throw them in on about the second day of fermentation. They seem to drop out after awhile, especially when crash chilled.


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## Bretto77 (30/12/09)

I agree with Tyred let them go free for dry hopping. Crash chill and rack when you want to remove them. The boys at the brewing network advise to dry hop for 7 to 14 days, going over this tends to create grassy notes (I'm not a fan of this flavour).

Cheers
Brett


Tyred said:


> Teaball or free. I normally just throw them in on about the second day of fermentation. They seem to drop out after awhile, especially when crash chilled.


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## Yikes (4/1/10)

Why not teaball in the boil? Would this work any better?
I guess you would need to watch out if you were trying to do multiple additions. It would get pretty hot.
I used a hopsock for the first time yesterday. A lot easier than trying to get it out later. I was sick of having leafy bits in my beer. I did find that the wort tasted a lot less bitter than the last time i brewed that recipe though.


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## t2000kw (5/1/10)

Yikes said:


> Why not teaball in the boil? Would this work any better?
> I guess you would need to watch out if you were trying to do multiple additions. It would get pretty hot.
> I used a hopsock for the first time yesterday. A lot easier than trying to get it out later. I was sick of having leafy bits in my beer. I did find that the wort tasted a lot less bitter than the last time i brewed that recipe though.



That would seem to verify reports that it cuts down on hop utilization since the hops can't boil as vigorously in a hop sock. 

I use a large colander to strain mine out after I've cooled the wort. I just pour the brewpot out through the colander into the fermenter. They probably help to strain out some particles also. 

Don


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## Murcluf (5/1/10)

I used to bag them when i first started brewing but now chuck the hops in it so much better that way. When the boil is finished i pour the work into the ferment with a strainer on top which catches 99% of it and airates my wort at the same time  works for me..!!


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## QldKev (5/1/10)

Just chuck them in; otherwise it's like going swimming with bathers on...

QldKev


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## jonocarroll (5/1/10)

Murcluf said:


> I used to bag them when i first started brewing but now chuck the hops in it so much better that way. When the boil is finished i pour the work into the ferment with a strainer on top which catches 99% of it and airates my wort at the same time  works for me..!!


Aerating nice and hot then?

For all those worried about continuing bitterness - surely most of the oils have been released from the solid material... yeah? They will still be in your wort even if you use a hopsock. 

I am curious to know the required temperature for isomerization of the acids - if they only isomerize at 100*C then you have no issue. I'm sure the effect is temperature dependent, just look at FWH as an example.


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## State of the Mind (2/3/10)

No you shouldn't put hops in the hop bag. The hops need to be able to move freely so that the boiling action can remove insouuble proteins. By letting the hops move freely they act as a filter and collect the insoluble proteins


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## Nick JD (3/3/10)

State of the Mind said:


> No you shouldn't put hops in the hop bag. The hops need to be able to move freely so that the boiling action can remove insouuble proteins. By letting the hops move freely they act as a filter and collect the insoluble proteins



Flowers or pellets that turn to dust?


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## Supra-Jim (3/3/10)

QuantumBrewer said:


> I am curious to know the required temperature for isomerization of the acids - if they only isomerize at 100*C then you have no issue. I'm sure the effect is temperature dependent, just look at FWH as an example.



Hi QB,

I found this recently, and posted in another regarding chilling, anyway:

"At 70deg C, less than 10% of alpha acids were converted in a 90 minute boil, At 120deg C, only 30 minutes were required for 90% conversion"

Link is here http://ift.confex.com/ift/2004/techprogram/paper_25787.htm

I think they are looking at boiling in modified atmospheres (vacuum and pressurised).

So I would think that % of isomerisation is a function of time and temperature.

Cheers SJ


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## Phoney (3/3/10)

BribieG said:


> The reason I bought the coarse one was that the fine variety was out of stock with Craftbrewer at the time. Glad I did. Next brew I'll post a piccie of the contents of the bag during and after boiling and post on this thread.




I have the 250 micron (fine) large hop sock from craftbrewer.  Is it worth the $20 to replace it?


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## Scruffy (3/3/10)

I use Bribie's socks (from Craftbrewer, models own, , , no affil... etc, etc). However, recently my hop additions have waaaay exceeded the 200g mark and it got decidedly viscous in there. I think I lost quite a bit of bitterness and flavour - i can still dry hop... or even Isohop... However I reckon as a rule of thumb, no more than 100g in one of Bribie's socks... :huh:...

I'm talkin' pellets here - Flowers or plugs just get chucked in, barefoot.


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## Bribie G (3/3/10)

Scruffy said:


> I use Bribie's socks (from Craftbrewer, models own, , ™, no affil... etc, etc). However, recently my hop additions have waaaay exceeded the 200g mark and it got decidedly viscous in there. I think I lost quite a bit of bitterness and flavour - i can still dry hop... or even Isohop... However I reckon as a rule of thumb, no more than 100g in one of Bribie's socks... :huh:...
> 
> I'm talkin' pellets here - Flowers or plugs just get chucked in, barefoot.



Yes I rarely use more than 60g, but in a high hop brew I boil the bittering hops for an hour, empty the hop sock then boil the later additions. Because the sock is suspended from the skyhook and sits just above the exposed element of the Birko Urn, they get a good rousing.


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## BjornJ (5/3/10)

I ended up buying the same hopsock, have used it a couple of times now.

Works great and leaves the hops with plenty of space to roll around in,

thanks
Bjorn


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## argon (2/7/10)

Bumping an old thread... But... Last brewday I added first addition of hops, both flowers and pellets to the hop sock, which I regularly use. As I watched the boil I thought, as others have, that the hops weren't getting a vigourous enough boil. So just emptied it all into the kettle freely. Continued on with other additions. Flameout and whirlpool... Blocked tap!! Dammit didn't haveany transfer tubing and had to take the tap off and pour into the cubes. In retrospect I panicked. Probably aerated the hot wort pretty bad.

Won't be free boiling my hops anymore. However I reckon a false bottom could be good. Anyone use one?


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## argon (20/7/10)

Tony said:


> mmm i tried many dag and hop restraint devices but they are better to go free willy IMO.
> 
> I have a false bottom in the kettle that catches them.
> 
> cheers



Just got myself a false bottom... little bit by little bit going 3v... anyway i'll be using it as a BIAB kettle in the meantime.

Tony, with a false bottom in the kettle I assume you don't whirlpool as it picks up from the centre?? How do you minimise trub transfer? FB just filters it out?

Anyone else use an FB in kettle?


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## argon (28/7/10)

Quick bump for anyone who uses a false bottom in the kettle

I assume theres no need to whirlpool before draining. Just open up the tap and let it flow I guess. 

Does anyone find that the FB filters out a lot of kettle trub? 

Mostly I will be using pellet hops and have heard that FB mesh wont really filter it out more effective for whole hops/plugs.

Anyone have any experience to share here?

Qualification:
(I have been using a hop sock in the past but feel like I should let hops just roam free and would prefer a hard solution in the kettle)


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