# Depression........Its real



## Ducatiboy stu (8/5/13)

Well.... I have suffered for 20yrs. Have long term chronic.

Recently I have had to have my meds changed due to my old ones not working. And its been hell .

Be nice to share the experience of fellow brewers. And don't be shy cause I already know a few of you.


----------



## Econwatson (9/5/13)

Not myself personally, but my mother killed herself 5 years ago, she was clinically depressed. She hid it pretty well from all of us, I had no idea she was hurting so much. Can't help but blame myself a little, I wasn't a bad son, but I should have paid more attention. So if you think somebody might be dealing with depression, it never hurts to ask if they're doing alright. Don't be shy about it, because you won't get a chance to ask if they decide to do the unthinkable. Sounds very dramatic, but it's how I feel.

But the world's a funny place. After my mum died my brother started speaking to a girl who's brothers both committed suicide for support. Now they're married, and have a 1 year old kid, my nephew.


----------



## Mardoo (9/5/13)

Wow. That sucks on both counts. Sorry guys, I know that's easy for me to say. I've managed to largely avoid the darkness that can't be shaken but have friends who haven't. You always wish you could help.


----------



## punkin (9/5/13)

Sporadic, quite severe but years apart. I'm more your manic depressive type.


----------



## doon (9/5/13)

Yep on and off for years but got really bad when I went through a divorce three years ago. Had to get on meds. They did their job but also had adverse effects on my blood pressure so got off them.


----------



## tricache (9/5/13)

Great to see this kind of thing talked about amongst guys...talking to counsellors and they have found that it's not just depression in men which is bad its the fact that they don't talk about it makes it even worse.

Been through a grandfather taking his own life(high school), father losing to cancer (3 year battle also in high school), premmy/still born daughter and numerous friends funerals(just in the past 2 years)

You get days were you don't think you can keep going and just want to give up, the whole crawl into a whole kind of thing. I have found being active helps 10 fold, brewing, gardening and even Xbox helps a million. A good exampe is I have always had trouble with social situations (never liked crowds or meeting new people) but brewing showed me that it's not that bad and even got myself into starting a new club and looking forward to meeting new people who come along.

Good on your Stu for starting this thread if we were in a pub I would buy you a round :beer:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (9/5/13)

Good on you stu for starting a thread like this.

We all generally have a laugh here, but sometimes there's more going on behind the computer screen and avatar.

Coupled with the fact that men generally share this sort of thing ess than anyone else, it's a recipe for disaster.

Good on you for talking about this on a 'man' forum (yes I know we have female brewers here and we all welcome our brewa-sistaz, but if you look at registrations of men vs women vs bots - the bots win it's more weighted toward blokes). That takes more guts than anything else.

I've had a couple of small bouts over the last 18 years (generally when I have a major period of stress - family rejection, financial precipice, diagnosed with aspergers syndrome, that sort of thing), but I'm generally, mostly not too bad. Keep busy, look at the positive things you do have (in my case 4 beautiful daughters, my wife and some great friends) and try not to tarnish that (my worst problem), don't drink to escape it - they generally tend to be what I do and mostly it works.


----------



## lmccrone (9/5/13)

I have a very good friend who suffers from it, although he seems a lot better now days. He thinks the best thing he did to start getting better was to talk to his friends about it, he got a lot more support than he was expecting.

Not sure what else I can add, good luck!


----------



## mosto (9/5/13)

To anyone who thinks depression isn't real, it is. Fortunately, I have never had to deal with it personally and, as such, honestly thought it was a crock of shit. Toughen up, shake it off, and get on with things was pretty much my line of thinking. That all changed a couple of years ago when two of my friends took their own lives within a short space of time. I couldn't understand why, particularly one who left a wife and two young boys behind. After talking to their close families, I discovered they both suffered from depression. I had no idea their outlook on life had become so bleak. The only ones that knew were their very closest family members.

I can not imagine why or how things got that bad for them and don't pretend to. What I do know is my attitude to this illness has changed. I have since managed to notice the early signs in another friend who was having a rough time at home and work. I just suggested he come around home have a beer and talk it out. He has since told me that's all he needed, someone to listen, but didn't know how to ask.

Another mate has recently seperated and, thankfully, he is a bit more forth coming in asking for help. He knows if it's getting too much, he can lob at my joint for as long as he likes. I live on 50 acres, so I think he likes the fact that if he doesn't want to see anyone much, he doesn't have to.

So my advice is to those who aren't suffering themselves, but suspect a mate is. Just ask if they're ok or if they need to talk. Maybe they are ok which is fantastic. But maybe they're not, and are hoping like hell someone asks as they don't know how to ask themselves.


----------



## CONNOR BREWARE (9/5/13)

I feel for anyone going through this. I've been there with a couple of people when things got dark for them. One used meds and one the bottom of a bottle. A long hard road for them. I always wondered what the hell I could do to help, like what was the magic answer to fix their troubles. Actually felt a bit helpless in my inadequate support. I now think its probably being available that was the help they were chasing. Both are now doing well.

Anyway a good thread, the more light on this the more inclined people might be to look for some help or support.

Good luck.


----------



## GrumpyPaul (9/5/13)

Been lucky enough not to have suffered myself - but my wife has really struggled off and on for as long as i have known her (coming up for 27 years married).

She has always seen it as a weakness and for a long long time refused to get help. When the kids were young she was worried if she told a Doc the kids would get taken off her.

Things for her have been tough lately and I finally got her to talk to a counsellor. I even got her to the point she spoke to the GP and was prescribed some meds. Unfortunately after 3 days on the meds the side effects were making her nauseas - now she wont take them.

Sometimes all you can do is be there for them. It can be really tough to see things from their perspective - i find myself thinking "just go to the Dr, take some meds - she'll be right" but you just cant force that attitude one someone suffering.

Supporting someone going through it can be really tough - but I always tell myself it isnt anywhere as tough as going through it yourself, just be there...


----------



## tricache (9/5/13)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Been lucky enough not to have suffered myself - but my wife has really struggled off and on for as long as i have known her (coming up for 27 years married).
> 
> She has always seen it as a weakness and for a long long time refused to get help. When the kids were young she was worried if she told a Doc the kids would get taken off her.
> 
> ...


I know what you mean, with losing our little girl my wife was obviously effected greatly and I have had to deal with not being able to help her until she wants help as much as dealing with losing our daughter.

It's hard to see someone you care about spiral down like that and feeling just as helpless and thinking you can't seem to help them. Good point though, just being there is always going to help even if they don't say so.


----------



## Arghonaut (9/5/13)

Good Thread. Never suffered from it myself, but have been there through some dark times with loved ones. Best mate who i lived with for a while in my twenties suffered badly, lead to an attempted suicide at our place which he luckily survived, and was a turning point for him. My wife also went through pretty bad post-natal depression after our first child, meds, professional support and a loving family got her through it, and it still pops up from time to time. People need to not feel weak or ashamed to admit they are feeling it, and not be afraid to talk and ask for any support they need. Talking about it more can only help this.


----------



## DU99 (9/5/13)

my wife suffers from depression and is on med's and has tried twice to self harm.she get's psychiatry one a month.the main problem i have found people with depression tend to onto hold things in,and not express there true feelings..also she had bad post natal depression with our first child.but back thirty years they didn't call it depression,"she had a nervous breakdown".her brother has been thru it and he locked himself away in his bedroom for hours.


----------



## philmud (9/5/13)

I've had depressive periods - manifested as substance abuse in my late teens & early 20s, and even though I haven't touched illicit drugs since then, I have to keep my moods in check. I tend to get a bit fixated in things when I'm not in a good space (brewing, photography, crazy schemes). I took meds for anxiety a couple of years back but stopped - didn't notice a great difference as I wound back slowly, BUT getting on the things was horrible, so OP I don't envy you changing meds as I gather that's a similar experience.
Good to see blokes talking about this, it's pretty pervasive. I've always liked Winston Churchill's 'black dog' metaphor.


----------



## Yob (9/5/13)

It's great to see this dark cloud have some light on it.. Ive not been prone to it myself but my wife used to be on meds for it... for some reason she hasnt needed any assistance since we met :blink: I guess she gets to laugh at me constantly and TBH I try to keep her looking on the bright side of things... which comes easy to me I think.

Have lost a number of friends the big S and understand how easily it can be kept hidden. Which it shouldnt be.

Beyond Blue is one of the charities I give to every year. 

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Phillo (9/5/13)

Long term sufferer. No cause, just familial. Tried to ween off the meds twice and relapsed. :wacko:


----------



## mwd (9/5/13)

Interesting thread for a beer forum it seems alcohol and depression are closely linked. Although I think beer drinking is less likely to make one alcohol dependent. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/alcoholanddepression_000486.htm


----------



## Econwatson (9/5/13)

Tropical_Brews said:


> Interesting thread for a beer forum it seems alcohol and depression are closely linked. Although I think beer drinking is less likely to make one alcohol dependent. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/alcoholanddepression_000486.htm


I'd say this thread is more an indication of how prevalent depression is in our modern society, and how many people suffer from it or are affected by it. The fact that we are the brewing demographic is coincidental. I bet if you went on forums for fishing or auto-enthusiasts you'd get similar responses.


----------



## fletcher (9/5/13)

Good thread mate.

I was in a horrible spot a few years back, for a few years, and would barely speak to any family or friends, and always made excuses not to see anyone. Got to the point of a breakdown and sadly lost a lot of friends over it and it had horrible health side effects. Didn't really understand what was happening until i ended up really sitting back and looked at my life and was honest with myself in things i was upset with vis a vis how i expected my life to be/turn out. Was very lucky to be able to slowly work my way out of those feelings with help from some close mates and family but it is a really good idea to speak to someone about it, friend, family, or counselor.

If i could echo sentiments here, i'd say to speak up about it sooner rather than feel like you're weak or have to battle those thoughts and feelings and 'put up with it'. It makes a world of difference.


----------



## Dan2 (9/5/13)

DU99 said:


> .. he locked himself away in his bedroom for hours.


I must have had depression for a long time in my younger years. It was pretty taxing on my wrist 

But seriously - my bro inlaw is having a pretty rough time atm. Recent brake up with his girlfriend has made life harder because, as many have mentioned and he has told me a few times, he just needs someone there to talk to, get things off his chest. Which I guess we all do at times. He's a very passionate bloke who can get really stuck into any hobby he has on the go, and we've tried to help him out financially to get stuck into his hobby/ies - he can't hold a job down for long so never has much spare cash. He's on meds, but as he is often out of work, and is passionate about getting drunk, this "hobby" clashes with the meds and makes matters worse. Vicious cycle.


----------



## cremmerson (12/5/13)

Wow. Brilliant thread. 

Ongoing sufferer (a bit manic-depressive), early self-harm, back on meds at the moment to introduce a "baseline" - handy, as I'm changing jobs.


----------



## Spoonta (12/5/13)

ya it not good Iput a mate in the ground one his 18 berthday found a work mate hanging on monday he was ok when I drop him of friday gess not wish thay had talked to me


----------



## djar007 (12/5/13)

I lost a few mates to depression. One last year actually. She was a good chick. Good miner. Good luck with the fight guys. Dont give up.


----------



## roverfj1200 (12/5/13)

I don't know the torment or the pain. But I will do what I can to help those stuck in the darkness. I'm sure it's worth the fight.. I hope those of you tracked by the black dog find the light and strenght to move forward.


Cheers.


----------



## gTrain (12/5/13)

Suffered pretty badly years ago, then got retrenched. Did the whole psychiatrist, meds thing & got to talk about it.

I think accepting your condition & realising there is treatment out there goes a long way to recovery. Having the right people to help you through it is the most important asset you can have.

I am now in a much better place, new job in a completely different industry, great bunch of mates & a close family behind me.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (19/5/13)

Great thread Stu.

I have been lurking this thread for over a week now and wish to share my experience.

I have suffered anxiety and anger for 2 years now, which took its toll on my family and job this year losing both within weeks of each other. In march i tried to take my own life after a blew on the phone from my former partner and her family and a 2 day binge. If it wasnt for my neighbour and his quick thinking i probably wont be here to tell my story. I spent a bout 10 days in hospital and bombed me out on anti-depressants and sedatives. I started seeing a psycologist at the start of the year when things were unfolding.

2 weeks after i was discharged i tried it again, on a binge i started ringing family members and friends to say thankyou for their support and everything else they had done for me. I didnt think about it at the time but everyone i had rang interpreted the calls as "Goodbye". within half an hour of me attempting i had an ambulance and my brother on my doorstep and had another involuntary stay in hospital for a week.

Sorry to be graphic with this post, Im still not out of the woods yet and theres still no light at the end of the tunnel. But I can vouch that talking and seeing a psychiatrist regularly does help, even writing thoughts and feelings down in a book helps to a point. I hung up the biab bag in feb and have looked at it once since then.

Up to now im on a pretty regular med regime that keeps me calm and off edge and stops the evils telling me what to do.

Dont believe that admitting you have depression makes you less of a person because it doesnt.

If anyone feels they need a chat PM me and i'll reply with my mobile number. Dont take the path I did.

Cheers.


----------



## winkle (19/5/13)

Stay well bro, you have lots of mates, remember that.


----------



## manticle (19/5/13)

All the best for recovery Wallace.

Hard road you're on.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (19/5/13)

A good book is "The Happiness Trap" by Russ Harris. It has very useful and practical stuff for both depression and anxiety..... absolutely worth your time and energy to read.
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/5/13)

About time I got around to adding to this ..

My depression is a chronic long term form. This is possibly one of the worst.

Being a sufferer you do not even realise that you are a sufferer, a classic catch 22. To me everything seems ok. But to every one else it is not. The problem is that you keep going day to day as if everything is ok.
As a sufferer you tend to live day to day. And every days seems to be the same. The reality is that you loose interest in things. Your hobbies, family, work, food and enjoyment. Things that others find enjoyable just dont seem interesting, in fact nothing really does. You know your freinds and family are there, in the room, but its like you dont particularly care what they do or even why. In fact it would not even matter if they where not there. It is hard when you have younger kids as they want to do things and you just dont really want to. My ex told me I was "Boring" because I didnt want to do anything. the problem was that I didnt find anything enjoyable. And when I did did it was short lived. I could go out for a BBQ, have a good time, but when it was over, it was like "yeah it was OK". You just go back into your own world. You tend to become anti-social in some ways. I get the feeling that I dont fit in, even if I did, and didnt really want to talk or associate. Some days I would be happy as larry with a group of freinds and the next day just didnt feel like talking to them for no particular reason.

When I was first put on anti-depressants I felt unbelievable. For the first time in years I wanted to do things. I felt great. and I could see what I was like in the real world. Unfortunatly after a few years the meds lost their punch and I started slipping .

Now for the fun bit

My first medication was an SSRI ( selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) call Citalopram. this is a fairly safe widely used anti-depressant. Worked great, but if you missed a day or two the withdraw effects where terrible...I really fealt scatty and like shit. I felt great when on it initially. My whole body would tingle and feel alive. I could not stop wanting to do things. I was on this for about 3-4 years

The GP and Phsyc then put men onto ans SNRI ( serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) called cymbalta when the first basically stopped working. FARRKK....I hated it, gave me terrible headaces and nausea... 3-4 weeks of that and I was ready to kick it. I was a mess for those weeks.

Now I am on a NaSSa ( noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant ) ( similare to a tetracyclic antidepressant ) called Mirtazapine, which is slowly starting to kick in

The feeling being in on the meds is like chalk and cheese. You become normal, so to speak, and life in general seems a lot more fun. You find that things become enjoyable and worth doing. Its like being on a strange drug that seems to open you up. The only prob is when you miss a day. It does not take long for withdraw symptoms to appear. Talking 12hrs. I felt vague with wierd pulses in my brain.. very hard to describe. It wasnt like you where back in depression mode just wierd.

Now not all meds are the same. There are several classes of antidepresents and they all work slightly different. SSRI & SNRI work by stopping the brain from absorbing seratonin and/or norepinephrine/noadrenaline or by antagonizing the receptors as in Nassa

The main thing is that there is help and the modern drugs do help. Its just finding the one that works.

Unfortunatly ( or maybe fortunatly ) my meds have stopped me from wanting to drink. I enjoy a few beers/wines etc but dont really feel like getting drunk. Maybe its cause I am older or just the way the drugs work. Either way I dont care casue they make me feel good and thats all that matters.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (24/5/13)

Nice post DucboyStu. You are right that getting the meds regime right is very important and what works for one will not necessarily work for another. Good to see Avanza is treating you well  ... The same principle applies when finding a psych or counselor, finding the right one can make a big difference and try not to get discouraged if you do end up with a tool, move on and find another.

I don't recommend books often but the one in my above post is seriously worth a read. It does not matter if you have a major depression episode or cyclothymia which I'm guessing you have, the contents will be of help. 
Watch the weight gain bro ..... mirtazapine can (emphasis on can) slowly increase your weight.
cheers
BBB


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/5/13)

Mirtazapine seems to be working. Last 6 months have not been good due to circumstances and drug changes.

All meds have side effects. I have noticed the Mirtazapine makes me want to eat more than usually when I do. This because seratonin works mainly in the digestive tract.It does not make you hungry but interferes with the stomach sending the "I am full "message. It also makes you sleep well.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/5/13)

actually the side affect of eating is not a bad thing for me. Whilst I ate healthy I didn't really eat enough. They prescribe Mirtazapine for cases of anorexia.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/5/13)

And I am not skinny...but not fat....

Depression does interfere with the way you eat


----------



## kalbarluke (24/5/13)

This is the first time I have ever posted anything like this and I thank Stu and others like Wallace for being so frank and honest.

My experiences with depression in the community (friends, neighbours, etc) go back to some of my earliest memories. My neighbour gassed himself in his car when I was about 8 and my under 10 footy coach shot himself and his two kids. Since then the "big s" has been probably the biggest reason for my attendance at funerals over the last 20 years. I don't have enough fingers to count them and they have all been male.

Personally I believe depression has been around for ever but similar to ASD (autism) is just now being diagnosed or recognised and treated seriously. I have had periods where I have needed meds but it wasn't my choice - my wife said I needed help with my "moods". I didn't realise that me mood was so low and was affecting my family. I was on them for a while but felt I didn't need them after 18 months or so. They were shithouse for the first 2 weeks and the same coming off them for 2 weeks.

Depression hits me for a lot of reasons: money problems, work, relationship pressures, etc. I found a few things helped - playing team sports, reading books on Buddhism, being more open with my wife and friends about how I feel. Reading this thread has brought me to tears (of happiness and empathy) knowing that other people have been through similar experiences and that there is a community of "booze hounds" so willing to share, help and discuss.

I have been pretty good lately but I am aware that the next down time is around the corner. I am lucky I have a supportive network. Thanks for reading my post and I hope those who are in a similar position seek help in times of crisis.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/5/13)

ratchie said:


> Mirtazapine does make you hungry which is good for me at the moment, after along term relationship breakdown due too us both becoming severly depressed caused by my (ex) partner having a couple of heart attacks over xmas.


Mmmmm..not so correct. Affects different people in.different ways. I am not so much more hungry...but when I eat i tend to not feel full. 

But this is not the jist of the thread


----------



## T.T.B.Co (24/5/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> About time I got around to adding to this ..
> 
> The reality is that you loose interest in things. Your hobbies, family, work, food and enjoyment. Things that others find enjoyable just dont seem interesting, in fact nothing really does. You know your freinds and family are there, in the room, but its like you dont particularly care what they do or even why. In fact it would not even matter if they where not there. It is hard when you have younger kids as they want to do things and you just dont really want to. My ex told me I was "Boring" because I didnt want to do anything. the problem was that I didnt find anything enjoyable. And when I did did it was short lived. I could go out for a BBQ, have a good time, but when it was over, it was like "yeah it was OK". You just go back into your own world. You tend to become anti-social in some ways. I get the feeling that I dont fit in, even if I did, and didnt really want to talk or associate. Some days I would be happy as larry with a group of freinds and the next day just didnt feel like talking to them for no particular reason.
> 
> ...


----------



## frogman (25/5/13)

I have found myself in new and uncharted waters. Just been put on Meds. Wife and I are sleeping in seperate beds. I was at a really low point late last year. Have a good G.P. with 24 hr access. I have not brewed in over 7 months just seemed to lose intrest in all activaties. Am now starting to look forward to things however I'm unsure as to which way things will go. Hanging in limbo is the most difficult.

Finding support on a forum such as this is a great help. Knowing I'm not alone.

Admiting I have an issue was such a great help. I don't know how long I have been suffering.

Guys talk to your G.P. Go once a year for a check up and a chat(when you are not sick). If your G.P. dose not seem to be asking the right questions FIND A NEW ONE.

Damien.


----------



## Yob (25/5/13)

They are testing ketamine at the moment and have found that in clinical trials after 40 mins on a drip symptoms were shown to be reduced, would be a great thing if folks didn't have to wait days / weeks for meds to work


----------



## Florian (25/5/13)

Yob said:


> They are testing ketamine at the moment and have found that in clinical trials after 40 mins on a drip symptoms were shown to be reduced, would be a great thing if folks didn't have to wait days / weeks for meds to work


i'd be surprised if that had any longer term effects though, the effects of ketamine seem to dissipate quite quickly from what i know. You'd have to be constantly on the stuff, but i might be wrong. Interesting nonetheless.


----------



## Yob (25/5/13)

The notable effects may dissipate in a short time frame but an adjustment to chemical reactions within the grey matter may last longer,hhardly am expert on the matter but following the trials with interest…

Cheers


----------



## manticle (25/5/13)

Ketamine?

**** me.

Reading an interesting book at the moment on the evidence for and against brain chemistry being the main/sole cause of mental unwellness. Will be able to comment further when I've actually completed but I like the fact that the author is not dogmatic, did not start out with a particular barrow to push (initially simply researching historical methods of treatment) and has a credible background (PhD, University professor etc).


----------



## philmud (25/5/13)

I believe the UK and possibly US are trailing MDMA (ecstasy) as a treatment with PTSD with some considerable success. I think it's telling that the drugs people choose to use recreationally look as though they may have clinical benefits, just as drugs that are indicated in a clinical context clearly have recreational benefits.


----------



## Moad (25/5/13)

Great thread and kudos to everyone contributing.

Myself I suffered with some anxiety and depression, got to the point where I thought all of my good friends hated me, it is bizarre to think back on it and I am just thankful I am on the other side. I haven't told many people about it but when I did it helped immensely. 

Probably couldn't be any more public now as my username is my last name but oh well, I hope anyone who needs helps seeks it and recovers from any shitty periods in their life.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (25/5/13)

manticle said:


> Ketamine?
> 
> **** me.
> 
> Reading an interesting book at the moment on the evidence for and against brain chemistry being the main/sole cause of mental unwellness. Will be able to comment further when I've actually completed but I like the fact that the author is not dogmatic, did not start out with a particular barrow to push (initially simply researching historical methods of treatment) and has a credible background (PhD, University professor etc).


I recall listening to a podcast regarding the links between gut flora health and the brain in particular with regards to anxiety and depression. It was from radio national, either 'the science show' or 'all in the mind'. I'd be interested in this book, is it along those lines? 
My partner suffers from IBS and her father is severely depressed and also has gut issues.


----------



## Yob (25/5/13)

few posts missing here mods....


----------



## vonromanz (25/5/13)

Hi Everyone,

I've also been struggling with this "cancer" for a very long time. I've tried all sorts of medicine. They all have their pro and cons. Avanza did make you want to eat constantly, slept like a rock, had jetlag for 2 months, and did not feel like any alcohol. Lexapro seems like quite a mild one.

I think the medicine does make you more "normal", but it is not the end of all means. Although I still drink allot, I try to monitor it more closely as it does have a negative effect on me. I try to keep busy, otherwise I find myself analysing everything too much.

Not trying to be too deep, but a Docter by the name of Windfried Sedhoff wrote a book on depression. He himself was a sufferer. He talks about humans having basic needs and they need to be met, self needs, family needs and community needs. In short, if any of these needs are not met, then the balance will be gone and you will not be happy.

Cheers


----------



## Tony (25/5/13)

Stu and I have been friends for going on 10 years now ans we have discussed our depression over the years.

I am the same as Stu...... long term cronic. Its always been there, never really been good and bad times...... just all grey.

I have also spent my life not enjoying anything, not interested in going on holidays, socializing, doing anything at all really except the hobbies i took up to immerse my mind in to distract myself from my true feelings and try and find some pleasure.

I have moved from town to town, job to job running from it.

I remember one night about 14 years ago going, sitting in the middle of the Highway at about 2am, in the north western town of Moree, waiting for a truck to come run me over. A truckie pulled up and dragged me off the road. We sat in the gutter and had a chat and he really helped me. That was the first time i really started to realize there was something wrong with me. I just didnt really know what or how to deal with it.

I wallowed around in my grey cloud for years and years, always wondering why people seemed to enjoy going places and doing things. Wondering how people could smile so much. Where was the fun? It was just survival and existence for me. mixed with the ever present thoughts of "what's the point" it was not fun but i always seemed to find a positive good enough to keep me going. Somehow my mind found a way. I was lucky enough to be in well paid jobs and i tended to immerse myself in work and a hobby to keep my head level. I would take the hobby to the max, pushing for the best i could do to gain inner happiness.

A lot of the time the only time i really felt alive was when i was risking my life in a fast car. I look back at some afternoons driving home from work in my WRX a couple years ago on back country roads..... My kids are lucky to still have a dad!

I think i knew i was depressed, but there was never any real recognition of it in society or help offered. None! My survival was an amazing feat of self preservation and i think this is probably the case for most long term depression sufferers, where you never see the goods and the bads to be able to separate them....... its just all blurred and muffled and grey.

Recently i almost lost my family and when they left i finally swallowed my pride and took myself to the doctor for help. We are all back together now and my recovery is getting along ok.

I have found the meds to be good and bad.

On the good side they have leveled my head and sort of allowed some color into life. I enjoy things more, don't feel the need to drink as much. I was at a birthday party today with most people drinking a lot. I had 4 beers and stopped, not even feeling like another. I now notice the wife and kids are there and take notice of what they are doing, their feelings, and involve myself in life with them.

On the flip side, they don't change who i am. I am still an anti social recluse and really struggle to get myself motivated to want to go out. Its like habit. Its who i am now and i really have to work hard at going and doing things, especially social events where i wont know many people. And i HATE it!

Its like the fog has cleared and i don't like what i see, and have not developed the skills to change it. But i tell myself its early and now that i have made the step to admit the problem and take the problem on, i will get there.

I dont think i will ever be a social butterfly but i enjoying what i have is better than never seeing it at all!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (25/5/13)

Yep....what he said


----------



## Mardoo (26/5/13)

I want to thank you guys who have posted about living with chronic depression. I've been learning things from what you've said. 

I've always been a guy who is willing to help out a friend in need or trouble, but what if they don't know they are? What if everyday is always dark? How can they talk about it or ask for help working with it? I didn't know what it was actually like and you guys have woken me up to it a bit. Hopefully I'll keep learning more. 

Hopefully out of what you've said I can be a better friend to my friends who might be in the same boat you guys are. Thanks for helpin' me out.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (26/5/13)

know that you have it is the hardest. Its not like you wake up one morning and go " I am depressed". The problem is that it is gradual so don't noticed. Like getting fat...you don't realise until you get told


----------



## tricache (27/5/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> know that you have it is the hardest. Its not like you wake up one morning and go " I am depressed". The problem is that it is gradual so don't noticed. Like getting fat...you don't realise until you get told


Totally agree and what makes it even harder is that some days its not as bad as others so you almost feel like you can see a light at the end of that tunnel but the next day you are back in that dark dark hole.

Only yesterday I felt so run down and empty I didn't even want to get out of bed. Got out of bed at 1pm, moped (not with a mop but you know what I mean) around the house until 4pm and then didn't get off the couch until I went back to bed last night. The frustrating thing is the day before I was feeling good, went to the movies with the wife no problem at all. Today I'm still feeling a bit average, at work so that keeps the mind distracted but still feel like I could curl up under my desk for the day.

Will see how I go the rest of the week, I'm off on holidays Thursday (going to WA) for a week but not sure if that will be good or bad since I never like leaving "home" and usually get home sick before even going.


----------



## MVZOOM (27/5/13)

Wow, good thread. 

Tony, thats a really succinct description of what my Dad has told me. He's got depression - mis-diagnosed as bi-polar and has been through a bunch of different meds to try and iron it out. I'm stoked that you're getting it together.

Dad has described the same sort of feelings. It's taken me a very long time to understand how he feels. To be completely honest, I'm probably only scratching the surface of what he deals with, but I'm learning more and more. It took me even longer to get out of the mind-set of "Dad, harden up, get off the couch and get over it". He's told me that depending on the meds, he is just apathetic and doesn't care. No highs, no lows (we don't buy Bose). I still find that hard to accept and keep pushing him to get active and do stuff. 

The question I have is this; does excercise work? Like most people, I feel a hell of a lot better, more positive, happier and considerate when I excercise - which I do a couple of times a week. Does this help with folks who suffer depression?

Cheers - Mike


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (27/5/13)

Yes it does. So does diet and sunshine. Its not just the meds alone than can help. From what I am gathering its is a chemical imbalance. Only your body can produce the chemicals involved. Meds only control how these chemicals are absorbed or breakdown. The main chemicals are seratonin, noradrenalin, dopamine and something else.

I may be wrong on a few things so don't take it as correct


----------



## soundawake (27/5/13)

Very interesting topic and one I can talk about with some experience. 

Depression has been rife in my mother's side of family going back generations. My mum, aunties and sister were/are all on antidepressants. I wasn't spared either.

Spent all of my teenage years with incredibly low self esteem, suicidal thoughts a daily occurrence for over 10 years. It culminated when I was 21 when my girlfriend and I broke up on the same week I was fired from my job (unfairly, but that's another story).

I went to the doc and was prescribed Cipramil. One side effect I just could not get over though was the complete inability to climax.. with a partner or by myself! I certainly did not want to live if I could not do that so I gave them the flick and haven't been on anything since. Tried to improve my diet and started exercising and felt a lot better. A good diet and exercise definitely help... this along with therapy can definitely lessen/remove the need to be on antidepressants. 

It's interesting about the studies they are doing on MDMA, having managed a popular nightclub in my early to mid twenties and being exposed to every drug you've heard of and some you haven't, I can speak with some (a lot of) authority on it as well. 

Simply put - MDMA makes you a better person. It opens your heart immeasurably- emotionally that is, and you learn true compassion and love, respect and understanding for your fellow humans on such a huge level that is just not possible without it. And long after its effects have worn off, that compassion and love and understanding remain. And when its produced and dosed correctly, its safer than aspirin. The problem is, long term high recreational doses coupled with crooks making it instead of pharma companies - that's what makes it dangerous. 

Interesting about the studies on ketamine too.. that just made me a space cadet. 

But simple things that can help - 

A good diet.
Exercise. 
Getting out in the sun. Simple stuff like gardening.
Talking to people about how you feel! 

I've lost 2 very close people to suicide.. and its made me realise that its NEVER EVER the answer. It's a permanent fix to a temporary problem.


----------



## Tony (27/5/13)

Mike, i have found the meds just level you and allow you a clear(er) line of thought. enough so to be able to start making better decisions.

The certainly don't cure you. If anything they give you a kind of false sense of security at first thinking..... wow i feel great, and then you kind of start to level out and see both what you have missed in life and also the work ahead.

Exercise works, but you have to be able to get yourself up and motivated to exercise. Unfortunately motivation is not the strength of a person with depression. Catch 22.

Everyone is different and suffers differently so what works for one will not for another. I think the one thing that is common with all sufferers is that to make change (not get better.... you don't just "get better") you need to set your mind to do it. You need to make a conscious decision to change and do things differently and try to improve your life.

The meds help you level your head enough to get to this point.

I was talking to a friend on facebook one night.... just having a rant and a vent about all my problems and fears, and she said to me......

Tony........... you cant keep doing the same thing and expect a different result!

for some reason that slapped me in the face.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (27/5/13)

I was told on a chat with a brewer in here that went through it. He said the meds are like a crutch. You can't just walk around with a crutch. The crutch will help up up but that's about it.

As far as the MDMA goes, there could be truth in that. When I first started I felt like I was on speed. Still love that nice tingling feeling when.the meds **** in


----------



## matho (27/5/13)

Exercise helps with sadness, I wouldn't say I'm depressed but I have had a few sad days but getting out on my bike and going for a good ride makes me feel better and it seems to last for the next day, getting fitter also makes me feel better.

cheers steve


----------



## tricache (28/5/13)

My wife uses exercise to help with her depression and anxiety (as well as meds) and it seems to help her but just couldn't seem to get myself in that same mindset.

It works with some people but not with others, pretty much look for something that works for you.


----------



## MVZOOM (29/5/13)

Yeah ok - thanks for the replies. It would be really interesting to know what works for whom, ie.. makes folks feel better, relieve the symptoms. 

Can I ask; if you (talking to those who suffer) were at the worst of an attack or depressive time, what is the one thing that you'd respond to? Is it your partner, kids, doctor, physical pain, warmth, writing, sleep, walking etc? What is the one thing - if anything - that makes you feel better?

Cheers - Mike


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (29/5/13)

Um....nothing really.....sometimes maybe alcohol but that was only short lived...


----------



## dammag (29/5/13)

I have found my anxiety levels have dropped a lot since giving up caffeine. I read that some people with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) can recover by eliminating caffeine. Worth a try.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (29/5/13)

Yeah..but GAD maybe just one part of depression. I don't drink coffee anymore ( after working as a contractor in hospitals and all they had was International Roast )but i have heard that.


----------



## tricache (29/5/13)

Crazy stuff caffeine, I go back and forwards with it a lot. Used to be at least 5-6 standard cups per day (including energy drinks) but now I limit myself to 1 every couple of days. 

Has helped calm me down a fair bit.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (29/5/13)

I saw a lady today - sleep problems & classic anxiety symptoms. I always ask - do you drink coffee? Answer - only about 12 cups a day ......... 2.5 heaped teaspoons a cup and chased with about a 1lt of coke over the day.......
Hmmmm.....
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/5/13)

Bo wonder she can't sleep...


----------



## Tony (30/5/13)

I have also stopped drinking coffee except for the odd cup on the weekend.

I have never had an energy drink. Never even tasted one as i dont believe the principle of them is good. I am teaching my kids they are poison.

I believe that most of the issues related to anxiety these days come form too much cafeine because it is cumulative in your system. It builds up and stays there.


----------



## brettprevans (30/5/13)

Tony said:


> I have also stopped drinking coffee except for the odd cup on the weekend.
> 
> I have never had an energy drink. Never even tasted one as i dont believe the principle of them is good. I am teaching my kids they are poison.
> 
> I believe that most of the issues related to anxiety these days come form too much cafeine because it is cumulative in your system. It builds up and stays there.


really? Cumulative? Ive got a gp appointment today so ill ask and report back. If it is ill def have to cut back just for good health principles. Enwrgy drinks are rubbish. Caffine is only slightly more than coffee and full of sugar.


----------



## tricache (30/5/13)

Our work used to get Monster cans delivered by the carton (3 cartons a month) and they used to be a regular drink during the day.

I was turned off them after a friend had a carton in his garage which he left for a few months and the liquid actually ate through the bottom of the cans and obviously emptied all over his garage but the scary thing is what it did to the cans themselves. Imagine what it would be doing to your insides!


----------



## brettprevans (30/5/13)

tricache said:


> Our work used to get Monster cans delivered by the carton (3 cartons a month) and they used to be a regular drink during the day.
> 
> I was turned off them after a friend had a carton in his garage which he left for a few months and the liquid actually ate through the bottom of the cans and obviously emptied all over his garage but the scary thing is what it did to the cans themselves. Imagine what it would be doing to your insides!


coke isnt any better. U literally can clean rust off metal with it. Ive tried it myself. So acidic. Im not convinced about the monster story though. Ive got 2 cabs of monster sitting in my outside rooom for over 8 months and the cans are fine. I also cant see those cans being passed for safety reasons. Id say he had somwthing else that corroded the can like salt or something.


----------



## Tony (30/5/13)

citymorgue2 said:


> really? Cumulative? Ive got a gp appointment today so ill ask and report back. If it is ill def have to cut back just for good health principles. Enwrgy drinks are rubbish. Caffine is only slightly more than coffee and full of sugar.


I am no expert but it's what i was told by a friend who lives and breathes this stuff.

Would be good to get a doctors thoughts as well.

Coke......... that crap is nasty. I used to work where they make the caramel colour for it. They cook sugar and water at about 250 degc and add amonia and hydrocloric acid till its pH is about 2.4


----------



## manticle (30/5/13)

Coke is flavoured, sweetened, caffeinated starsan.


----------



## Tony (30/5/13)

MVZOOM said:


> Yeah ok - thanks for the replies. It would be really interesting to know what works for whom, ie.. makes folks feel better, relieve the symptoms.
> 
> Can I ask; if you (talking to those who suffer) were at the worst of an attack or depressive time, what is the one thing that you'd respond to? Is it your partner, kids, doctor, physical pain, warmth, writing, sleep, walking etc? What is the one thing - if anything - that makes you feel better?
> 
> Cheers - Mike


I have always resorted to alcahol....... which is what i am trying to change.

If anything, contact with family and close friends. Conversation and knowing that your not alone in the world.

A hug from my kids always works too


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/5/13)

Just need to point out something.

Depression is a complex beast. 

One thing I would never do is read the net and think that medication doesn by Joe Blow is what I need. Unfortunately it spent work like that. Some meds can make it worse and that is dangerous.

There was an earlier post made regarding missing posts. I am glad that the mods ate doing their job


----------



## GalBrew (30/5/13)

Tony said:


> I have also stopped drinking coffee except for the odd cup on the weekend.
> 
> I have never had an energy drink. Never even tasted one as i dont believe the principle of them is good. I am teaching my kids they are poison.
> 
> I believe that most of the issues related to anxiety these days come form too much cafeine because it is cumulative in your system. It builds up and stays there.


Caffine does NOT build up in your system like mercury or lead. It is processed and removed by the liver (much like alcohol). If caffine remained in your system permenantly it wouldn't take too many coffees to kill you.


From our good friend Wikipedia:

"Caffeine from coffee or other beverages is absorbed by the small intestine within 45 minutes of ingestion and then distributed throughout all tissues of the body.[122] Peak blood concentration is reached within one hour.[123] It is eliminated by first-order kinetics.[124] Caffeine can also be absorbed rectally, evidenced by the formulation of suppositories of ergotamine tartrate and caffeine (for the relief of migraine)[125] and chlorobutanol and caffeine (for the treatment of hyperemesis).[126]
The biological half-life of caffeine – the time required for the body to eliminate one-half of the total amount of caffeine – varies widely among individuals according to such factors as age, liver function, pregnancy, some concurrent medications, and the level of enzymes in the liver needed for caffeine metabolism. It can also be significantly altered by drugs or hormonal states. In healthy adults, caffeine's half-life has been measured with a range of results. Some measures get 4.9 hours,[127] and others are at around 6 hours.[128] Heavy cigarette smokers show a decrease in half-life of 30–50%, oral contraceptives can double it, and pregnancy can raise it even more, to as much as 15 hours during the last trimester. In newborn infants the half-life can be 80 hours or more; however it drops very rapidly with age, possibly to less than the adult value by the age of 6 months.[32] The antidepressant fluvoxamine (Luvox) reduces the clearance of caffeine by more than 90%, and prolongs its elimination half-life more than tenfold; from 4.9 hours to 56 hours.[127]

Caffeine is metabolized in the liver by the cytochrome P450 oxidase enzyme system, in particular, by the CYP1A2 isozyme, into three dimethylxanthines,[129] each of which has its own effects on the body:

Paraxanthine (84%): Increases lipolysis, leading to elevated glycerol and free fatty acid levels in the blood plasma.


Theobromine (12%): Dilates blood vessels and increases urine volume. Theobromine is also the principal alkaloid in the cocoa bean, and therefore chocolate.


Theophylline (4%): Relaxes smooth muscles of the bronchi, and is used to treat asthma. The therapeutic dose of theophylline, however, is many times greater than the levels attained from caffeine metabolism.[_citation needed_]
Each of these metabolites is further metabolized and then excreted in the urine. Caffeine can accumulate in individuals with severe liver disease, increasing its half-life.[130]
Some quinolone antibiotics exert an inhibitory effect on CYP1A2, thereby reducing clearance of caffeine and thus increasing blood levels.[131]"




I do find it interesting however, Luvox can increase the half-life of caffine up to 10x (that can not be healthy).


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/5/13)

Some antidepredants are processed in the liver which lead to problems.


----------



## GalBrew (30/5/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Some antidepredants are processed in the liver which lead to problems.


Everything you ingest is processed by the liver, quite a few drugs can mess with how it processes non-food organic compunds (like I mentioned above). But either way, caffine will eventually leave your system. I am not suggesting that you should not cut back if you are on an antidepressant (or other drug) that decreases your liver's ability to process caffine. Booze however, is processed by a different mechanism (alcohol dehydrogenase) than caffine (cytochrome p450) by the liver.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/5/13)

Granted that the liver processes most 'drugs' but one must be carefull on the the interweb thingy.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (30/5/13)

I have started gold prospecting. I travel out to Meekatharra, Cue and Mt Magnet fortnightly (for you eastern state leaches  , it's gold country). I know nothing about geology. The internet is a great tool to delve into this and I have with gusto. I have been to 3 minesites to login and say I'm prospecting on their turf. I have met three geologists (rock lickers is the technical term). All of my wiki/internet knowledge is worth about three seconds of experience, period. I accept this - internet knowledge is not experience. I am not a geo .....

To the blokes, and there are many, who have depression/anxiety/ptsd or any other mental health issue, internet knowledge has its place but is no substitute for real world knowledge and experience. If you have a GP you trust, listen to them, if you don't trust them find another. To the 'no medication' crew, do the six years and sit in the chair and make the call, it is life and death stuff. It is our job and we deal with this all day everyday. When you lose a client or family member - the world is a different place.

I am yet to meet a family that is not touched by mental health problems. I have worked as a psych for 17 yrs.
In conclusion - read the book - The Happiness Trap by Dr Russ Harris. This is the advice from your resident Geo..... so bloody do it.
Cheers
BBB

Edit - This is the internet, therefore PM me and I will be happy to put my name to this and you can check my credentials on APRHA.... Not I'm not a 12 year old girl .....


----------



## manticle (30/5/13)

> Ketamine?
> 
> **** me.
> 
> Reading an interesting book at the moment on the evidence for and against brain chemistry being the main/sole cause of mental unwellness. Will be able to comment further when I've actually completed but I like the fact that the author is not dogmatic, did not start out with a particular barrow to push (initially simply researching historical methods of treatment) and has a credible background (PhD, University professor etc).


^ Hope no-one read my post as being pro 'no medication'.


----------



## Tony (30/5/13)

available for Kindle

http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Living-ebook/dp/B00C0X6K6S/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369912729&sr=1-2&keywords=the+happiness+trap


Will get!

Thanks Triple B


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (30/5/13)

Onya Tony.
Cheers mate
BBB


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (30/5/13)

manticle said:


> ^ Hope no-one read my post as being pro 'no medication'.


Manticle
Special K is the go short term .... I want some!!! There is all sorts of stuff going on, special K, TMS and NSAIDS. People don't like to talk about ECT but the shit works for very severe depression - why? who knows (I have a MA in neuropsychology, we don't know but can guess).
That all being said, meds are great for balancing you out - it's what happens after you are balanced out that is important. Nothing changes if nothing changes (Dr Phil might quote that now) ...... 
Cheers
BBB


----------



## manticle (30/5/13)

I'm very familiar with the effects of various meds and more importantly, the effect of their absence and I am a supporter of the right meds at the right dose with the right support. I'm also a fan of diet, exercise and appropriate psychotherapy as a means of maintaining healthy mental health. None of these need to be, nor should be exclusive.

I'm familiar also (won't say how) with the breakfast cereal and its alternative versions. ECT is a weird one. I know cases where it works well and others where it's the worst shit on earth. Usually compared to rebooting a computer - have you tried turning it off then on again?"

Anyway, I'm reading two books at once so it will take a while to get through "Blaming the brain" by Eliot Valenstein (someone asked earlier what the book was and I forgot to reply). Meds help, meds are important but they are not the sole solution. Neither is fish oil or going to the gym but all can help, case dependent.

Definitely wouldn't want to be seen as a 'no meds' proponent though - have seen (and grieved) for the effects on some close to me.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/5/13)

I think that a holistic approach is mostly the best. 

The meds help get you out of the hole knowing you to want to partake in exercise and a more appropriate diet along with socialising and talking about it

I first saw a psychologist who said diet was important. Foods high in Triptopane are good for the brain as it is basically converted into seratonin by the body. Dark chocolate with 70% cocoa and walnuts/pecan nuts ( thank you god ..my two favs ) are some of the best. He went in to say that most depression sufferers loose their sense of taste and that can leadd to poor diet.Made sense to me.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan


----------



## technobabble66 (31/5/13)

Amazing thread. I'm truly impressed with the open, honest & deeply personal comments by many forum members here.

I don't *think* i suffer from serious depression, though i did go through a rather dark period in my mid 20's (who knows? maybe i do suffer after all). However most of my mum's side suffer from it. All my male relatives in 2 generations were alcoholics; and in hindsight, suffered from depression (my mum is still paranoid about me trying homebrewing!). I think i just have a bit of an innate ability to see the negative in everything :unsure: so these days i'm consciously working on seeing the brighter side of life, staying active, etc.

I'm a professional naturopath (specialising in Nutritional & Herbal therapies), so i occasionally work with patients who also suffer from depression & anxiety.
I'd repeat Ducatiboy Stu's comments, & others, that a holistic approach definitely helps. And everybody's different. Hence, what they experience and what works best to moderate the symptoms varies a lot.

Admitting to yourself that you suffer from depression is the hardest, and most important step. 
(Deciding to do something about it can be the next hardest).

Pharmaceuticals are not always needed, but are generally a great first step to help level out the emotions &/or raise someone out of the black shroud they're in. Most people commenting on their personal experience here seem to be referring to moderate to strong depression - so the pharmaceuticals are generally essential.

So once someone gets to a slightly more milder level of depression, the other holistic stuff can have a greater impact.
I should say: Talking to someone is possibly the most important. I believe that includes both a professional (keep hunting until you find the one right for you, same for a GP) and friends/family - partly just to realise that there are many people out there suffering like yourself, and that you can tap into any support network around you. 

Diet makes a massive difference - in terms of improving nutrition to the nervous system, levelling out energy fluctuations, increasing intake of some specific nutrients (eg: tryptophan, DHA (an omega-3 fatty acid), etc), and resolving any gut problems (eg: IBS, allergies, malabsorption, etc).
Exercise is also generally fantastic - the problem being motivation, of course.
Sunlight can actually make a significant difference - it stimulates serotonin production.

Avoiding stimulants can also be important. Unfortunately that includes booze. Caffeine/coffee too. Sometimes complete abstinence is best, but commonly just moderation is required - eg: couple of drinks on a saturday night is fine, just monitor how you go on the following day, etc.
Re: Caffeine is accumulative. Galbrew is correct in that the liver will clear it out gradually (dependant on what else the liver is detoxifying).However, I would suggest that there is still a long term accumulated effect on the physiology that can be unbalancing on both energy levels & hormone profiles. It also definitely aggravates any issues with anxiety. Given many people with depression also have problems with anxiety, this is a significant problem. Hence, the need to moderate or eliminate caffeine. Probably treat it the same as booze, really.


I hope everyone is ok with me writing mainly about my professional knowledge rather than personal experience with depression, given the best thing about this thread has been everyone expressing their own personal experience with depression. I just thought while some comments on possible holistic treatments were being thrown around, i'd put in my 2c worth.
Obviously, everyone has their own beliefs & experience with what works best for them. Definitely, the holistic approaches can help a lot, but i'd strongly stress the importance of seeing a professional health practitioner initially - it can be hard to gauge the severity of your depression & anxiety (& hence certain treatments [drugs & psych therapy] that may be necessary) when you've lived with it for years.

Stu


----------



## Econwatson (2/6/13)

Sorry to divert the topic a little, but how are you guys with anxiety? I think this is my vice more than anything else. I get down like most people and I don't think it's depression, but I feel like I'm really wound up all the time.

Let me give you an example, I've been asked to be my brother's best man, which is a fantastic honour and I'm so happy that he'd choose me. But to me, it feels almost like a sentence because I know I'm going to have to give a speech in front of 200+ people, some of whom I know, but some of whom I do not. Now, until the wedding next summer, I'm going to have the thought in the back of my head that I'm going to have to do it, and it's really going to ruin the occasion for me.

What it makes me feel above everything else is nausea. I forget to breathe or breathe shallowly and this makes me feel sick so that I need to retch, which forces me to breathe again as an instinctive reaction. But then the cycle will begin again. I have this reaction to all sorts of occasions, job interviews, girlfriend is pissed off, the future in general. I can control it so that nobody sees, but only just. I had an interview with BP for an amazing job and up until 30 seconds before I was called in to be interviewed I was retching in the bathroom. I got the job and I start in September, but I don't think I can keep it up forever, I can't be constantly worrying about some future event.

It wasn't always this way. When I was a child I used to perform Doric (a Scottish dialect) poetry in front of hundreds of people, and I just didn't give a shit. I remember feeling adrenaline and excitement, but not nausea like I do now. I wish I could go back to that feeling.

I think when I start working I'll go and see a psychiatrist about it. I would prefer not to be put on medication or anything similar. I've heard that hypnotherapy, as kooky as it sounds, is useful for treating it. I'll really try anything.

It's good to be able to speak to you guys about it. I've touched on the subject with my friends. I think my brother has a similar condition to mine, but being Scottish, we tend not to discuss our emotions too openly, to all our detriment. I think my girlfriend knows, but maybe she finds it hard to understand because she seems to find presentations so natural.

Anyway, thanks for reading. My girlfriend is away and the Glenfiddich (is that a naughty word on these forums) is flowing, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.


----------



## philmud (2/6/13)

Econwatson, I know Beyond Blue have a campaign at the moment to raise awareness re: anxiety - it's a pretty crippling affliction. I think a degree of situational anxiety (public speaking, interviews) is normal, but it sounds like its debilitating for you sometimes. Would you consider trying to see someone ahead of September? If you see your GP you should be able to get a mental health plan which entitles you to a Medicare rebate for (up to) 8 sessions with a psychologist & seriously reduces the expense. If you're not working ATM some psychologists may take you on for no gap. Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (the other CBT) seems to be a very popular treatment for anxiety & involves relaxation techniques & ways to become more aware of and disarm your anxiety.

Good luck!


----------



## brettprevans (2/6/13)

Econ. U dont need a shrink. A psychologist will be enough. Go to the gp and talk to them as the first step. Ask for avreferal to a psych who practices CBT. Not all of them do. The beyond blue website also lists gps who specialise in depression etc so have a look around tge site. 

Public speaking is one of the most common fears in rhe world. However something mau be exacerbating yours atm.


----------



## Econwatson (2/6/13)

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I had not heard of this CBT before. I'll be sure to check it out. Good to see anxiety is receiving some coverage at the moment, seen a few of the ads. Would like to get something done about it while I'm in Australia. I'm on Medicare even though I'm a Pom, hopefully I can still be seen


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (2/6/13)

Econwatson - good advice above. See your GP and tell them what is going on. Get an organic workup (blood tests etc) to make sure there is nothing going on and get a referral. You may find that your anxiety is far more pervasive than you recognize, that's why getting the diagnosis right is important (and nearly impossible over the internet).

Try the MoodGYM website for some info and practical stuff on CBT. It is not a substitute and you really should see your GP. CBT is certainly not the be all and end all, it was exciting 20 yrs ago but in the real world Mindfulness shit is the go...........
As I said earlier in the thread - pay the 20 bucks or so and get the Happiness trap, worth the read.
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Econwatson (2/6/13)

I'm taking a look at the MoodGym site now, it looks very useful, many thanks!

It would be good to get a blood test to make sure everything is physically alright as well!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/6/13)

Well.. my new meds are starting to work.

The in-between period was .....welll......

I am starting to feel alive again. I am waking up and feeling like i want to do something. After not feeling like that it is a new experiance.

But......I still have to deal with the decissions i made ......this part is not easy.


----------



## Lecterfan (5/6/13)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> CBT is certainly not the be all and end all, it was exciting 20 yrs ago but in the real world Mindfulness shit is the go...........


 :wub:


----------



## brettprevans (6/6/13)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> .....- pay the 20 bucks or so and get the Happiness trap, worth the read.
> Cheers
> BBB


whats the diff btwhttp://www.bookdepository.com/Happiness-Trap-1-Set-Dr-Russ-Harris/9781459609839 and http://www.bookdepository.com/Happiness-Trap-Dr-Russ-Harris/9781845298258? Obviously the former is a newer edition but is there anything more worth the extra $?


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (6/6/13)

Good question. I've only read the bigger version (link one). I'd say link two is a condensed version and I'd probably grab that one....... And its cheap !!!!
Cheers
BBB



citymorgue2 said:


> whats the diff btwhttp://www.bookdepository.com/Happiness-Trap-1-Set-Dr-Russ-Harris/9781459609839 and http://www.bookdepository.com/Happiness-Trap-Dr-Russ-Harris/9781845298258? Obviously the former is a newer edition but is there anything more worth the extra $?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/6/13)

ordered my copy today


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (6/6/13)

Can't wait for your review Stu .......
Cheers
BBB




Ducatiboy stu said:


> ordered my copy today


----------



## Yob (12/6/13)

a good initiative HERE at beyond blue, just thought I'd link it in case it's of interest to anyone


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/6/13)

My book arrived today....

Looks like a good read just flicking thru it.

When I get time infront of a PC instead of my not so smart phone I shall post an up date of how the anti-depressant I am on and mixing it with alc.....not such a good thing.....I eas warned but **** me.......not such a good idea


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/14)

Well...I got the book " The Happiness Trap"...and as usual, it sat on the shelf for to long.

Its a good book. Not what I thought. Not all the way through it because it gives you exercises to do.

Guys, dont give up.


----------



## Superoo (4/1/14)

Theres a brilliant radio program which aired early November 2012 on the ABC in South West WA.

There is a CD available of the whole program, you can get it here...
http://www.abc.net.au/local/audio/2013/10/30/3880195.htm

Link to the full show sound...
https://soundcloud.com/abc-south-coast/the-tractor-cd-a-mens-suicide
then click download at the top of the page.

The radio announcer is John Cecil, and he deserves a lot of credit for making this program happen.

So Grab a coldie, sit back and listen, and pass the link on to your friends and family.

Cheers to all, and keep talking to your mates...


----------



## thedragon (4/1/14)

DS, good to hear that you're staying strong. You no doubt have the support of the people that know and love you. Great to see people like you raising awareness of men's and mental health.


----------



## thedragon (4/1/14)

Edit: duplicate post. Sorry.


----------



## StalkingWilbur (4/1/14)

Great thread. 

I've lost mates growing up and never understood it. Especially when it was so sudden and seemed like there was no reason.

My girlfriend used to have depression before I knew her and now it's come back. **** me, it gets so hard sometimes. I told her I won't give up trying to help her and being there for her unless she gives up. I get angry sometimes when she acts irrational or starts acting in a self-destructive way. I know I shouldn't and I know it's not her fault, but sometimes I can't help it and it makes me feel like a ******* wanker. Sometimes she says that this is who she is and acts like its going to be this way for ever, but that's not the person I've known for the last two and half years. 

After reading some posts here (going to have to go back and read more) I think I need to just shut up and listen more. Sometimes I try to make her understand that things aren't so bad, or tell her that she shouldn't be so upset about something that doesn't seem major because people have worse. I'll just shut up and listen.


----------



## Mardoo (4/1/14)

Definitely read the whole thread SW. I learned a lot. The main thing I never realised is that for folks with chronic depression it doesn't really occur to them that life can be different, that there is something other than the grey.

It's helped me to work with my wife's depression that arises sometimes from her chronic pain syndrome. Different, it seems, to the bleakness of chronic depression though.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/14)

Mate...its a bitch.

It comes in many forms. 

The worst thing is the mood swings. 

Personally I become anti social..but saying that, when I am social I am on a real high...but then when it wears off...I dont want to leave the house.

It creates a spiral...a spiral that gets out of control.


----------



## doon (4/1/14)

Definitely just listen. Its a weird thing sometimes mine is gone for a long time and then bam the most minor thing seems to be the hardest thing in the world and has you thinking of easy ways out. It is definitely a life long problem


----------



## Mardoo (4/1/14)

Must be hell. I hate my mood swings, when I'm looking around in the black with no clue which way is up again, and they're just normal ones.


----------



## doon (4/1/14)

Im just glad I have a loving wife who understands this is how my brain is and is patient with me when it decides to go south


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/14)

Good days are great.

Its the periods when you dont even know how or what fun is that is the prob

And those periods last months.....and I do mean months...


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/14)

And the worst thing to do is push a person with depression..

It makes you feel worse than you need to be.


----------



## StalkingWilbur (5/1/14)

Yeah. I think that's what I've tried to do because my personality type is to just keep moving forward no matter what's coming at me, much to my own detriment at times. 

And then one day I saw her post a comic about a girl hiding under a blanket and the other person getting in with them when the girl said she wasn't coming out and I had a realization moment and tried to change my behavior. It's amazing what can initiate a fundamental change that can help so much.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/1/14)

thedragon said:


> DS, good to hear that you're staying strong. You no doubt have the support of the people that know and love you.


That is the biggest misconception.


----------



## manticle (5/1/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Great thread. I've lost mates growing up and never understood it. Especially when it was so sudden and seemed like there was no reason. My girlfriend used to have depression before I knew her and now it's come back. **** me, it gets so hard sometimes. I told her I won't give up trying to help her and being there for her unless she gives up. I get angry sometimes when she acts irrational or starts acting in a self-destructive way. I know I shouldn't and I know it's not her fault, but sometimes I can't help it and it makes me feel like a ******* wanker. Sometimes she says that this is who she is and acts like its going to be this way for ever, but that's not the person I've known for the last two and half years. After reading some posts here (going to have to go back and read more) I think I need to just shut up and listen more. Sometimes I try to make her understand that things aren't so bad, or tell her that she shouldn't be so upset about something that doesn't seem major because people have worse. I'll just shut up and listen.


Caring is also not easy - not least because you're not the one suffering from the illness directly. Your response is normal.

Listen as much as you can but don't forget both you and she are human. If you also need support, whether professional or just from friends who understand, seek it.


----------



## hyjak71 (5/1/14)

Wow, never expected to read a thread on this topic here.
Don't suffer myself but my wife has dealt with depression and anxiety for a large portion of her life. Depression to start and anxiety later, mainly stemming from an abusive ex husband. We have been through hell over the last 6 years we have been together including severe Post Natal after the birth of our twins which included a stay in a mother/baby unit for a period of 10wks all up. During this time she had ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) and a massive shake up of her medications (w hich is never fun). The most defeating thing for her was that prior to the twins birth she had weaned herself off all meds for the first time in years and was feeling great but the PND just bought it all crashing back.

Twins are 3 now and she has wound back to half prescribed dosage and is in the best physical form of her life thanks to a dedicated exercise regime and healthy eating, the goal is to be completely off the meds in another 2 years, which I reckon she will do.

The fact that this debilitating illness is being discussed on a public 'blokey' forum gives me hope that the perceived shame of suffering from depression will eventualy disappear and those affected are able to discuss it openly and frankly without fear of ridicule or judgement.

We have also lost a number of friends to suicide over the years and seeing the ripple effect on the community surrounding those people is devastaing.

Best wishes to all battling 'the bastard' and I hope anyone reading this thread who may be helped by doing so is.


----------



## cereal_killer (5/1/14)

I was going to start out with an intro...

But this is one crazy thread guys, Im a manic myself. Its always been tough, almost emasculating, well at least felt like it to admit or discuss... Insanely beautiful community you have built here guys, unlike any other hobby I am involved in, by a long stretch.

Kudos. Maybe the word beautiful, is a tad hard to swallow, but as someone at the bottom of the barrel, its perfect. Unless you have ever travelled alone, you dont know what its like to have. 

Those who dont understand but try to, thankyou. All we need is a glimmer of hope.


----------



## Mardoo (5/1/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> That is the biggest misconception.



Can you say some more about what you mean DucatiboyStu?


----------



## goomboogo (5/1/14)

Mardoo said:


> Can you say some more about what you mean DucatiboyStu?


Stu will correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is saying he doesn't receive tremendous support from those who know him best.


----------



## Cube (5/1/14)

I would think DS is an exception as most close family would bend over backewards to help another.


----------



## StalkingWilbur (5/1/14)

Unless your family doesn't understand what you're going through or believes you should just harden up. 

As for friends, it can be an insanely hard thing to be there for someone going through this. I imagine many have their breaking points or weigh up the cost v benefit ratio of the friendship and break ties at some point.


----------



## hyjak71 (5/1/14)

One of my best mates went through a real bad stretch of depression from 18-21, the amount of hours we spent just talking (and drinking) was huge. It's funny but he had closer mates at the time but never spoke to them about it where as he opened up to me although I was the one who brought up the topic first albeit in a round about way.
I reckon if some of our other mates had known how much of a shit time he was having and how much he was hiding it through heavy recreational drug use and partying then I dare say some of them would have bailed.
His friends were his family at the time, his old man took his life when he was quite young,his mum was housebound by illness and a sister that had her own demons to deal with.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (5/1/14)

I dance the dance. Sometimes the black dog is on his leash sometimes he sits on my chest. I've dealt with it for a long time but never told anyone. Even my wife. I've found a profession that allows me to hide. It's funny because I have everything in life I'm successful. But I'm never happy. When my first was born I was proud not happy. When my second came to be I felt emotions but I couldn't describe them, I've never bonded with him. 

I find my own balance one day at a time. This thread & Tonys was hard to read. It may be time to talk to someone. I just got off the beyond blue site. It will have to do for now.


----------



## manticle (5/1/14)

Do it mate. Asthmatics use ventolin.

No different in that regard. Just want to add to the depression thing that other mental unwellness exists (bipolar, schizophrenia, schizo-affective, etc) and is equally hard for sufferers and carers to deal with. Don't try and do it alone. It's not a matter of strength - strength comes from the fact that you cope with it on whatever level required to get by day to day.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (5/1/14)

Lol twice now I've gone in to delete that post. I'm embarrassed,but the honesty and bravery of others will push me to change.


----------



## manticle (5/1/14)

Stigma around mental health is rife and one of the main things that holds sufferers back from getting support.

There was a great study on it I read recently - I think it was on the SANE website. There is a very slow shift among the general population as people start to open up and realise they are not alone. So many have either gone through it or know someone close who has.

Very few understand it - even those that suffer first hand but don't clam up. No need to tell every person you meet but those that matter most and those who you trust can help. They might not be able to change your brain chemistry but just knowing someone else gives a **** can make a huge difference.


----------



## manticle (5/1/14)

Hopefully this link works

http://www.sane.org/images/stories/media/ALifeWithoutStigma_A_SANE_Report.pdf


----------



## DU99 (5/1/14)

my wife has depression and my daughter has bi polar and another is getting over cancer..Hate to say this life aint easy in my house..Me triple heart bypass 6 years ago


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (5/1/14)

Pm sent manticle. Thanks


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (5/1/14)

This has been a big leap for me. But one of the worst things I feel is the fact I've got it good. Like why hell? Many people have bigger problems I feel a bit silly. DU99 I do wish you the best mate. I will start the journey.


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (5/1/14)

I've been on pretty serious meds for a while now, I noticed a couple of posts regarding the inability to climax. I discussed this with my GP and its got a lot to do with the with the depression less than the meds. I cant to even get in the mood.


----------



## rheffera (5/1/14)

Been depressed since i was 18 myself, i'm very stolid and i can neither cry nor laugh. On max dosage of Meds. sorta helps. (at least i can sleep now, no more 36 hour's straight reliving the past) It can happen to all of us. There are people who have had worse in life and those whom have had it better. I don't understand how anyone who has had it better than I or anyone else could possibly be depressed(this applies to me too, probably has sometihing to do with the fact we are very self-centered beasts), but i DO know what it's like. When i Was 12 or there about My Dad offed himself and i didn't understand why. I do all too well now though how the old man was feeling, and i don't think ill of him for his choice.. Good luck fighting your own demons everyone...

My advice to anyone on high dosage meds, never miss a day. The next time you'll take em you'll feel extremely trash. You'll wish you were hungover.


----------



## Mardoo (5/1/14)

Scooby Tha Newbie said:


> I dance the dance. Sometimes the black dog is on his leash sometimes he sits on my chest. I've dealt with it for a long time but never told anyone. Even my wife. I've found a profession that allows me to hide. It's funny because I have everything in life I'm successful. But I'm never happy. When my first was born I was proud not happy. When my second came to be I felt emotions but I couldn't describe them, I've never bonded with him.
> 
> I find my own balance one day at a time. This thread & Tonys was hard to read. It may be time to talk to someone. I just got off the beyond blue site. It will have to do for now.


Zero shame for posting this mate. I've had similar feelings about posts I've made in other forums and every one has helped me feel just that bit more free. Our honesty is one of the most important tools we have to work with our demons.


----------



## manticle (5/1/14)

Cube said:


> I would think DS is an exception as most close family would bend over backewards to help another.


Unfortunately there's a lot of people out there without any support.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/1/14)

And the fact that sufferers tend to withdraw and become to what others see as anti social


----------



## manticle (5/1/14)

Vicious cycle.


----------



## DU99 (5/1/14)

my question is how many of you guys where told to withold your emotions/feelings because you a MAN..


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (5/1/14)

Well done all of you.

Bigger men than those who beat another cricket side today, though you won't get the same accolades.


----------



## MartinOC (7/1/14)

I can equate with a lot said here.

My demons are similar, but different - PTSD.

Just in case some folks have wondered why I suddenly stopped brewing 10 years ago & why it's taken me so long to get back into it, well, now you have your answer.

I bottled-up stuff from the past & didn't deal with it. Then, a bomb went-off in my head & I basically withdrew from everything & everyone. Drank myself into a stupor every day for a few months (I don't think I was ever sober, plus the dope). Contemplated topping myself (absolutely ANYTHING to stop the "replays") & decided that fighting (to the) death was better than giving-in to it.

Wild, raging anger, then seconds later bawling my brains-out. I called it having a "brain-snap". I used to listen to Motorhead & Pennywise to calm-down.

I was put on meds for awhile, but I felt so dull & lifeless, I stopped taking them. That, for me, was a good move.

'Still struggle with it occasionally, 'still drink heavily.

Still alive.


----------



## MastersBrewery (7/1/14)

My Missus has battle mental illness since she was 8 years old, traumatic events from that time still haunt her. She also suffers chronic pain, so she fair rattles when she jumps. I have known her for 11 years and we have been together for 6 years. The last 3 of which I think we'd both agree have been more than most relationships would survive, after nearly 12months being separated we are now back together, but still on a very long hard road.
Just before last Christmas everything went to shit, she moved out, and not a month later, she ended up being admitted to hospital, then because of this her ex-husband decide not to return her daughter from xmas access (no orders ). Over the next few months things didn't go well, but she saw some new specialists and her diagnosis was reviewed: Bi Polar and Borderline Personality Disorder(BPD) (now that sounds like some scarey shit right!-Basic Instinct. anyone) well hollywood didn't do any favours to mental illness when they made that movie, so glad things have changed.
Through out the year I really tried to be proactive with her and help her with her legal issues and making sure she had lots of time with our son. I had to do a lot of reading and I think the best book I came a cross was "loving someone with BPD". I swear the first 3 chapters were written about my life with the woman I love, really, I felt like the author had been watching the whole time. As BPD is very often misdiagnosed as BI Polar, I would seriously recommend this book to those having trouble coming to grips with the mental illness of a loved one it has tools to help you and them.
We have a big year ahead, with a court case for custody of my step daughter, her mum still battles most weeks and the stress of this will tell, together we'll get through.

For those supporting a love one with mental illness, it's it fucken tough road, when you love them, you do it with out thought for yourself. Remember one thing, you can't help others if your struggling yourself. There are support services out there for you. If google won't help drop me a PM


----------



## Pickaxe (7/1/14)

Nice post masters, it's a long road for the ones that live with sufferers. I lost 2 very close mates to suicide that were long term sufferers and now watching one mates brother and mother battle the demon. Unfortunately, my mates went down from not talking about it. It's now very out in the open for us left behind. Even talking about "warning signs" we still reckon we'd not see it coming. Open dialogue is the only channel we think may have prevented my mate's suicide. 
I'm one anti "harden up" advocate. Open up, dint harden up.

pickaxe


----------



## MastersBrewery (7/1/14)

Have to agree Pickaxe, top tips:

Assess: ask what has happened.

Listen Actively: without judgement or contradiction, don't say they're over reacting.

Validate: find some thing in what has happened that makes sense and is understandable, that you can relate to; say what that is.

Ask if you can help, not solve the problem but to get through the moment.

If the answer is no, give them space and remember emotions of emotionally vulnerable people last longer


Of course be more fluid, squishy,soft and warm like a good mash

MB


----------



## Mardoo (8/1/14)

Great advice Masters. Thanks.


----------



## tazman1967 (30/4/15)

Hi guys,
Just been diagnosed with chronic depression,
Been fighting it for the last 3 months, but it has got me..
I havnt brewed a beer for 3 months, sad because brewing is one of my joys in life.

I have reached the bottom, and have now seeked professional help, and have a mental health plan in force.
It feels like a weight has been lifted off me shoulders.
To all you guys battling it, i feel for you.
Cheers


----------



## DU99 (30/4/15)

Mate..glad you got help..


----------



## wereprawn (30/4/15)

tazman1967 said:


> Hi guys,
> Just been diagnosed with chronic depression,
> Been fighting it for the last 3 months, but it has got me..
> I havnt brewed a beer for 3 months, sad because brewing is one of my joys in life.
> ...


Your not alone there mate. Was diagnosed with severe chronic depression around 15 years ago myself. Luckily the meds the shrink put me on, worked wonders. Was like a light had been turned on. Feel quite ashamed of how i treated my family and friends back then. Being a big bloke it must have been terrifying for them as my depression often presented itself as aggression. Not that i was physically violent toward loved ones, but still...


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/4/15)

Mate, glad you got help. Dont ever be afraid to face the black dog and talk about it

Your on a difficult road, trust me.

Antidepressants will help, but they are not the magic bullet..

Diet, exercise, life style will all affect how you deal with it

get the book " The Happiness Trap " by Russ Harris and have a read...its not a self help book, or a guide, or a manual...dont worry, it can be a difficult read when you get into it, but well worth it

We all get depression for different reasons, and there is no reason why any of us should be scared of it

Learn to put the black dog on a least and take him for a walk, instead of the other way around


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/4/15)

wereprawn said:


> Your not alone there mate. Was diagnosed with severe chronic depression around 15 years ago myself. Luckily the meds the shrink put me on, worked wonders. Was like a light had been turned on. Feel quite ashamed of how i treated my family and friends back then. Being a big bloke it must have been terrifying for them as my depression often presented itself as aggression. Not that i was physically violent toward loved ones, but still...


All those feelings and more. You dont really know what you are doing and how other people get affected by it, its like your in a tunnel


----------



## MastersBrewery (30/4/15)

I posted top of this page more than a year ago.
Whats changed?
A lot!!! I live with a different woman (same girl though), she has done a lot of hard work, and knows there is always more to do. and it is a huge weight that has lifted from both of us. This was a long long fight 5-6 years and at times there seemed no end and no light at the end of the tunnel. Life is doing good things for her and that has a snow ball effect.
And yep the custody case she is in continues (actually we have two separate cases running in different courts for different kids mine and hers) and even with all that she has continued down the road to recovery. But she didn't do it alone it took a lot of work from many people, loved ones, friends and professionals.

MB


----------



## droid (30/4/15)

over in the west visiting my siss as she mentioned suicide on the phone the other day
feel like I'm treading on eggshells, she left work sick today because her medication was increased yesterday
not being a subtle sort of person has caused lots of tongue biting
I'm making dinner, walking the dog, cups of tea, washing clothes but this time next we ill be gone
Don't really know what to say, bit scared of saying the wrong thing, when it's siblings the rough edges are hard to work around

Thanks for providing some links, I hear of a psychologist in wa that is helping super moms deal with the day to day


----------



## wereprawn (30/4/15)

droid said:


> over in the west visiting my siss as she mentioned suicide on the phone the other day
> feel like I'm treading on eggshells, she left work sick today because her medication was increased yesterday
> not being a subtle sort of person has caused lots of tongue biting
> I'm making dinner, walking the dog, cups of tea, washing clothes but this time next we ill be gone
> ...


Being family is always hardest droid. Just letting her know you will be there for her, no matter what, is often the best you can do.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (30/4/15)

droid said:


> over in the west visiting my siss as she mentioned suicide on the phone the other day
> feel like I'm treading on eggshells, she left work sick today because her medication was increased yesterday
> not being a subtle sort of person has caused lots of tongue biting
> I'm making dinner, walking the dog, cups of tea, washing clothes but this time next we ill be gone
> ...


Just to pull a few things out of what you said....Dont worry, It will make sense

Living with depression gives you highs and lows....just depends on the equation

Changes in medication should be taken VERY LIGHTLY AND WITH CAUTION ..I have been there...not good...

I went from Citalopram (SSRI) to Cymbalta (SNRI) to finally Mirtazapine (NaSSA)

Citalopram was great first up....but after 12mnths it lost its function....Cymbalta made me sick as a dog, headaches, brain snaps, lethargy, bad nausea..after 2 weeks

Mirtazapine for me seems to work well....

Please.... Do NOT take my experience with different drugs ...It wont work

Sometimes throwing to much support to quick is the worst thing....

Going in and saying.. " Mate...lets go out and have a good time " or " We came down to help you out " can be detrimental.

Think about it.......Your mates and family all come in and say " We are here to help.."

So you go and catch up and have a few beers and all of a sudden you feel great.......


..........then it stops..........


----------



## droid (30/4/15)

thanks guys

yep I don't know how far to go at this point and my other sister who is 20 minutes away can be a bit abbrasive, should I say a bit more than me. Then it begs the question am I here for her or for me? at least we've had a couple of good chinwags.

unfortunately she doesn't get much help around the house and I'd like to tell her partner and her 11 year old daughter to help out but then when I leave maybe they'll just drop the ball,


----------



## wide eyed and legless (1/5/15)

One can only imagine what having a mental health problem is like let alone living with someone who has it, Ducatiboy stu said above that exercise helps, a healthy body makes for a healthy mind is not just a saying, I read an article recently from Biomedical Research Centre for Mental Health in London who did research on this and it is true.
Though I have never had any mental health issues, the demon I am facing (cancer) I found that a side effect of the chemotherapy is depression, would hate to think what effect it could have had on me if not for a strong mind which could beat it.
At the moment I am running 7 kilometers each morning as well as attending the gym not drinking too much and I feel as good as I did 10 years ago, and my mind is a lot sharper, though my cancer has now moved on to metastatic cancer I feel mentally prepared for the next stage of treatment. 
So that advice that stu gave is good advice, and I would be really going for fitness even if it is only going for long walks, you can only benefit from it, so good luck to you tazman and anyone else affected by mental illness.


----------



## Grott (1/5/15)

One* big step *here with those suffering depression-* your talking about it. *Keep up with this as unfortunately those that hide it, don't discuss the issue, often struggle.
I wish you all the best and never ever give up.


----------



## dannymars (1/5/15)

Yep, mate of mine took his life over Easter... 

Heavy shit :-(

Took up smoking ice six months prior and kept it secret from everyone, we didn't even know he'd been doing it until it was too late.


----------



## spog (1/5/15)

Depression , I know people who suffer from it.
Dementia , I know people who suffer from it.
My Mum is suffering from both, it's ******* heart breaking.
Trying to understand/comprehend the WHY is ........
Giving a stuff is the easy part.


----------



## Lincoln2 (2/5/15)

I recently read an article referencing a scientific study that showed gardening can be more effective and longer lasting than Prozac for battling depression. Apparently there is a beneficial bacteria in soil that you are exposed to by breathing and working your hands in soil. They trialled some patients in the UK with very positive results. Plus being active, fresh air, sunshine, productiveness etc.

Most gardeners would agree that there is a mild high that comes after a good day in the vege patch. I don't have a link the study handy but if anyone's interested
ii should be able to dig it out.


----------



## malt and barley blues (2/5/15)

I also read that article, do you get the International Express? I think that is where I read it.


----------



## Lincoln2 (2/5/15)

On-line at a permaculture site I think. But it was pretty widespread for a while, papers, medical sites, Neuroscience magazine etc. It was the real deal, scientific method by uni scientists etc. Not just a bunch of hippies.

In fact, I think I might go and weed, plough, harrow and fertilise a few beds right now; in prep for my winter veg crop. Not that I suffer from depression - it's just a really nice day for some physical labour followed by a cold beer (or two).


----------



## spog (2/5/15)

Had a visit from the Police 2 hrs ago looking for a lad who stayed with us for a while,he suffers from depression , he rang his sister and said he was going to do himself in.
The Police are racing around checking with everyone and trying to find him,hope all ends well.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (2/5/15)

Yes Lincoln it is a fact that gardening is therapeutic and yes it does give a good sense of achievement which could be called a high, certainly helps me just being out in the garden.

Sorry to hear about the young lad spog hope they manage to find him and get him help.


----------



## DU99 (2/5/15)

"spog" hope they find him


----------



## zappa (2/5/15)

Spog, I hope they find him quickly. In my experience, people that tell someone they're about to end it is more a cry for help than a threat. Let's hope this is the case & he gets the help he's singing out for.

Gardening. I have to agree. I've never been formerly diagnosed with depression. I don't like going to the doctor, let alone telling him my problems. I had my own cry for help back in high school, by taking a bunch of pills that landed me in emergency. I don't think i wanted to end it, but i didn't really care to be around either. I think i just wanted people to know i was struggling. I'm not a communicator. Much of my life has been highs and lows, but 12 months ago i moved to acreage. Before then, i was constantly tired, agitated and had no drive to do anything. I grew up on farms and felt a need for space. So, i don't know whether it was the space (I'm quite introverted) or the soil, but I've not felt tired or really agitated since. That may have something to do with soil chemistry, i don't know. But, i feel normal.


----------



## spog (2/5/15)

No news yet.


----------



## tazman1967 (3/5/15)

Thanks guys for all the support.
It is good to know now, that I have done something about it, and thats it not just in my head. That is a medical condition and can be treated.
I have a new lady in my life, and instead of running away she is totally supporting me ( could be a keeper ).
She wants me to do yoga with her, and for me to get back into the gym.
Day 3 of meds is has its ups and downs, have found out that caffeine is a no no, makes me very light headed and giddy.
Mentally, im feeling great, feels like the crushing weight has been lifted off me.
The meds im on are. Escitalopram, brand names are, Lexapro/Cipralex 20g once a day.
Im new to meds so advice is good.
Cheers


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (3/5/15)

The first week or so can be a bit out there. If your feeling like shit after 2 weeks, go back and tell your doctor. They may not be for you

Can make your body tingle and make you feel really good, its like your buzzing. If it does that then its working...but it will die down after a few weeks


----------



## MastersBrewery (3/5/15)

agree with DBS it takes at least two weeks for meds to balance chemistry out some times a little longer but you'll know if they're working for YOU. Everyone is different, don't be afraid to tell the Doc it aint working.


----------



## Danwood (4/5/15)

Great amount of bravery here, brewers.... it's inspiring.

I thought my periods of grey were solely caused by my job of 4 years, which I wasn't enjoying. I felt like I was wasting my life (which I was), so I quit, and started working for my BIL.

The new carpentry job is much more enjoyable, but the depression returned after a couple of months.

When I think back, it has always come in waves a few months apart, but a little worse each time.

I shut down during the bad periods, not wanting to talk to anyone or even play with my 2 year old. Him and my wife are the best things that have ever happened to me, so I hate myself for shutting them out. That's when the spiral of self-loathing is at it's worst.
My wife bought me 'The happiness trap' over a year ago, but being a stubborn prick, I never read it.

I will now.

I'm also going to the docs this afternoon for a major service. Cholesterol check (never had one, but should be ok... just curious), a check of my ratchet-sounding knees, and a possible referral to a therapist of some kind. 

Let's keep shining lights on these insidious, little diseases... good work everyone.


----------



## spog (4/5/15)

Danwood ,well said. I remember being shocked when a fellow AHB'er Tony announced his battles, I have never met him and only know him from this site but his announcement was ballsy to say the least.
And many others here are now talking about their troubles, it made me stop and think and realise how many people I know here in Port Lincoln are suffering from it,it's a lot. 
Yeah realising how many are suffering from this shitty deal truly is a shock.


----------



## jimmy_jangles (4/5/15)

Wow, i have only just come across this thread, it's made me very proud to be a part of this community 

Fortunately i have not been affected personally, i have had a few friends that have and what i have learnt is to just be there. So please lads if anyone ever needs an ear to listen to them, i'm always available

Drop me a line if anyone is in newcastle and surrounds ( well anywhere really) and you would like to meet up for a chat

Cheers lads and keep on sharing


----------



## Killer Brew (4/5/15)

Just came across this thread. I have battled depression / anxiety for over 20 years and it is such an insidious disease, eating away at your happiness and confidence. Have had 3 more serious bouts with the last being under a year ago. Pleased to say that my new hobby brewing assisted my recovery! I have found over the years that exercise and hobbies are a great distraction and really give me a feeling of well being and something to look forward to. That and a wonderfully supportive wife who has sought to gain an understanding (even attending therapy with me so that she could understand how best to support me). The final frontier is having the confidence to reveal the truth in the workplace. Perhaps one day there is real acceptance / understanding in society. Progress is being made though no doubt.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/5/15)

Danwood said:


> 'The happiness trap' over a year ago, but being a stubborn prick, I never read it.
> 
> I will now.


Yeah i was the same. I just thought, yeah just another self help book thingy. But the book really makes you look at yourself, and most of all, makes you think


----------



## spog (4/5/15)

spog said:


> Had a visit from the Police 2 hrs ago looking for a lad who stayed with us for a while,he suffers from depression , he rang his sister and said he was going to do himself in.
> The Police are racing around checking with everyone and trying to find him,hope all ends well.


This young fella was found and is being helped.


----------



## manticle (4/5/15)

Good news.


----------



## panzerd18 (4/5/15)

Anyone tried meditation?

Before everyone shoots it down, its more powerful than anyone believes.

Mediation is not sitting cross legged, chanting aum, it can be extremely simple.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (4/5/15)

There is a lot to be said for positive thought.

A Psychologist told me that I will need to re train my brain and teach it fun,enjoyment and pleasure. I thought he was mad at the time, but he was right.


----------



## Killer Brew (4/5/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> There is a lot to be said for positive thought.
> 
> A Psychologist told me that I will need to re train my brain and teach it fun,enjoyment and pleasure. I thought he was mad at the time, but he was right.


Bang on. Retraining the neural pathways through positive thought / refusing to dwell on negatives has been a powerful tool in managing the illness for me.


----------



## panzerd18 (4/5/15)

Its not so much thinking more positive thoughts.

Its to stop believing in all the negative thoughts about self and others.


----------



## jimmy_jangles (4/5/15)

I have found that when i feel down that training Jiu Jitsu helps to clear my mind. I train at Gracie Barra Newcastle City, first lessons are free too, so feel free to come on in and have a roll with us and meet you new jiu jitsu famliy


----------

