# Hermit Coil Heat Exchange Build



## Online Brewing Supplies

Here are the parts you will require to build a HERMIT Heat Exchange :
From left to right.


9323714048139 DWV PVC connector female iron 40mm 56650
DWV PVC 100m tube (not thin storm water ) 225mm long. approx 3mm wall thickness.
9323714041116 DWV PVC coupling acc 46380
9323714041123 DWV PVC cap 46430
" ??????????????" DWV PVC End cap .
Some PVC glue and a tube of silicon a 40mm hole saw, 12mm drill bit.
A $9.00 electric jug from Kmart.
The rest I will put in a PDF over the weekend.

To repeat myself here are some instructions I sent to BBB. 
Here a quick shopping list from bunnnigs Pvc cement+ tube of silicon
Fittings:
1 x 9323714041116 DWV PVC cap 100mm coupling ACC 46380
1 x 9323714041123 DWV PVC cap 100mm threaded access ACC 4630
1 x 225 mm long piece of 100m pvc pipe, thick stuff, not storm water crap, I found mine on a building site.
1 x 9323714048160 DWV PVC adaptor female iron 40mm 56690
1 x End cap for base to close of bottom bunnings didn't have this, but your store probably will.
1 x 40mm hole saw
1 x 12mm drill bit
1 x kettle from kmart.
The trick is to use some heat (heat gun and a piece of wood) to flatten the section of pipe where the element goes thru then drill your 40mm hole. File or sandpaper it flat as possible, if it leaks this is where it will be.
Centre of the 40 mm hole is 55mm from base of 100mm pipe,glue the end cap on first so the pipe doesn't distort when you heat the bugger.
Silcon inside around end cap and where the element goes thru and then later silcon on the 40mm adaptor when you are sure there is not leaks.
You will have to pull kettle apart and remove element, the black section where the cord plugs into needs to be hacked so it becomes round so you can fit the 40mm adaptor over it.
I will send ipics later.
YOU NEED A BIG BASE ON THIS SO IT DOESNT FALL OVER.
ALL ELECTRICAL WORK SHOULD BE DONE BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICAL TRADES PERSON.
Nev


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

thats exactly how i built my HEX. But mine has a s/s element in it at the bottom.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

You means like this :


or this :

Nev


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Wallace - the kettle element is s/s and also in the bottom. Nev forgot to say there is an award for the best pimped HERM-IT rocket. I am leading at this stage ...
cheers
BBB

edit - nev beat me to it


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

Nah, I have a s/s hotstick type element in mine.

The element sits well inside the coil.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

_WALLACE_ said:


> Nah, I have a s/s hotstick type element in mine.


Show and tell, it may help others.
Nev


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Show and tell, it may help others.
> Nev



Will do. I'm between phones ATM. Hence why my grain mill build thread hasn't been updated


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Here is my rocket. Yes it's red and yes it's hot.


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## amiddler

Need a pic of the temp controler and where and how the temp probe mounts please  

Let the pre brew war sledge begin Triple B. 
I will let you use the HERMS set up but I have the home ground advantage. Never underestimate the home ground advantage.


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## dent

The kettle element assemblies generally have a couple of fine wires that go to the neon globe - beware of these as they have 240V on them like everything else. If you want to remove them (no snake eyes like Nev's), you can usually just pull them hard and the contacts inside the plastic will give way leaving a couple of small holes in the element socket - this is pretty safe. 

If nothing else, I also would double check when all is finished that your earth on your plug has good continuity to the metal coil of the element. This is what will save you if you get water leaks in your rocket tube onto the IEC socket - the RCD will trip rather than electrifying your nice stainless coil and brewery.


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## Acasta

Hey Nev and Co.
Im not the strongest DIYer, but I do follow instructions well. Hows that PDF coming along? Any ideas of a time you may be selling a complete "hermit" kit (coil, pump, control ect) to the public? Your easy to do and low price point is looking very tempting right now.

Cheers.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Acasta said:


> Hey Nev and Co.
> Im not the strongest DIYer, but I do follow instructions well. Hows that PDF coming along? Any ideas of a time you may be selling a complete "hermit" kit (coil, pump, control ect) to the public? Your easy to do and low price point is looking very tempting right now.
> 
> Cheers.


PDF should be done by tomorrow, I am going to try and finish it tonight. Full kit is still a few weeks away, still waiting on a few fittings.
I am as keen to get the kit out as well.
Nev


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Here is a build Hermit heat exchange build guide *View attachment HERMIT_HX_build.pdf
*
This is a first draft and needs some suggestions and upgrades. Feel free to comment.
Done very quickly so its a bit shite. B) 
Nev


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## chalky

Hi Nev,

An interesting read, even with the typos B) 

Did you include a parts list?

--Chalky



Gryphon Brewing said:


> Here is a build Hermit heat exchange build guide *View attachment 53173
> *
> This is a first draft and needs some suggestions and upgrades. Feel free to comment.
> Done very quickly so its a bit shite. B)
> Nev


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## bignath

Awesome stuff! 

Definitely gonna try this one day soon.


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## Adam Howard

Nice Nev. Now I just need to place the order!


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## Online Brewing Supplies

chalky said:


> Hi Nev,
> 
> An interesting read, even with the typos B)
> 
> Did you include a parts list?
> 
> --Chalky


Shit lost a page or two :lol: 
Ill be back.
Nev


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Shit lost a page or two :lol:
> Ill be back.
> Nev


Sorry, lost some info (parts list ETC) and cant find it, converting from2010 word to PDF is some times crap. I will fix it tomorrow.
Nev


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## Acasta

Just a quick bit of imput. Too much description and pictures is not a bad thing. Visual indication is very helpful, so maybe some arrows and text on the picture? [ie, "silicone in here" or "cut here" ect] I'd like to see more details on the kettle section mainly, the tubing ect is fairly forward. It goes from 2.1 to 2.2 which confuses me how and what you did to get past that. Some more pictures of the kettle parts coming together would be nice.

Also is there some type of ring around the PVC hole in step 4 pic?

Thanks again.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Acasta said:


> Just a quick bit of imput. Too much description and pictures is not a bad thing. Visual indication is very helpful, so maybe some arrows and text on the picture? [ie, "silicone in here" or "cut here" ect] I'd like to see more details on the kettle section mainly, the tubing ect is fairly forward. It goes from 2.1 to 2.2 which confuses me how and what you did to get past that. Some more pictures of the kettle parts coming together would be nice.
> 
> Also is there some type of ring around the PVC hole in step 4 pic?
> 
> Thanks again.


Yep I agree, its a rough draft done very quickly. A lot has been lost too.Work with me on this.
The ring in step 4 is from the kettle, its the seal for the element.
Thanks for your feedback , its what I need.  
Nev


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## churchy

Nev you forgot the part number for the canary yellow paint.Or can it be any colour you wish. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bignath

Red will be quicker at ramping up temps!


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## Online Brewing Supplies

churchy said:


> Nev you forgot the part number for the canary yellow paint.Or can it be any colour you wish. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Next one is Nissan blue, with a Turbo decal.  doof doof
Nev


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## JDW81

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Next one is Nissan blue, with a Turbo decal.  doof doof
> Nev



Mine will be Brittish racing green, with a couple of white go-fast stripes. Classic.


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## amiddler

Mine will be PVC white, so when brew mates come around it will blend in with all the other $h!t in my shed and they wont steal it.


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## Parks

Drew said:


> Mine will be PVC white, so when brew mates come around it will blend in with all the other $h!t in my shed and they wont steal it.


hahahahahaha


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## Online Brewing Supplies

JDW81 said:


> Mine will be Brittish racing green, with a couple of white go-fast stripes. Classic.


How are you going to get a shitty noisy gearbox in it ? :lol: 
Nev


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## JDW81

Gryphon Brewing said:


> How are you going to get a shitty noisy gearbox in it ? :lol:
> Nev



If it is anything like my father-in-law's Jag, with great difficulty.

It will also be impossible to fix, and will never work when I want it to. <_< 

Maybe I'll stick with PVC white.


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## Maheel

dropped into k-mart to grab a corded $9 kettle and they had none, one of the staff on the floor said they wont get them anymore and now only do the "cordless" kind

had a walk around all the shops and found one in Woolworths for $14 so i bought that.

i had a look at the $9 cordless kmart one and i reckon it could still be used fairly easily.


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## Cortez The Killer

I think I got mine from BigW 

But it was a while ago

Not sure if they still stock them

Cheers


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## Parks

Cortez The Killer said:


> I think I got mine from BigW
> 
> But it was a while ago
> 
> Not sure if they still stock them
> 
> Cheers


I went into BigW yesterday (Brisbane City) and they only had cordless ones for $7.

I'm spewing too cause I had one I ripped apart ages ago which I threw out because I decided not to use it.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Maheel said:


> dropped into k-mart to grab a corded $9 kettle and they had none, one of the staff on the floor said they wont get them anymore and now only do the "cordless" kind
> 
> had a walk around all the shops and found one in Woolworths for $14 so i bought that.
> 
> i had a look at the $9 cordless kmart one and i reckon it could still be used fairly easily.


The cordless Kmart kettle will work but you need to supply your own IEC power cable like the one on your PC.
Some other brands of cordless kettles dont have the right have pin configuration so chose carefully.
Our new PDF will be ready soon.
Nev


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## Parks

Gryphon Brewing said:


> The cordless Kmart kettle will work but you need to supply your own IEC power cable like the one on your PC.
> Some other brands of cordless kettles dont have the right have pin configuration so chose carefully.
> Our new PDF will be ready soon.
> Nev


I will add the cordless BigW one *looked* like it had the exact same IEC connection (ie, the coil can be plugged in with a normal IEC cord).


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## amiddler

Just picked up a $14one from Woolies. Didn't realize there were different cords. What is the difference?


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## Parks

Drew said:


> Just picked up a $14one from Woolies. Didn't realize there were different cords. What is the difference?


Don't think you'll find a different cord, just cord vs cordless.

I will note that I have seen some urns which have a notch in the plug which won't take a computer lead...


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## Maheel

Gryphon Brewing said:


> The cordless Kmart kettle will work but you need to supply your own IEC power cable like the one on your PC.
> Some other brands of cordless kettles dont have the right have pin configuration so chose carefully.
> Our new PDF will be ready soon.
> Nev




i thought it might and good to know


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Drew said:


> Just picked up a $14one from Woolies. Didn't realize there were different cords. What is the difference?


 Woolies one is easy, the "other cordless" kettles may have pins on the element adaptor which are configured differently IE to small or spaced differently.
The two types I have mentioned work so stick with these.
Woolworths Corded with IEC plug $14.00
Kmart $9.00 cordless. Need to supply your own IEC cord.
Nev


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## amiddler

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Woolies one is easy, the "other cordless" kettles may have pins on the element adaptor which are configured differently IE to small or spaced differently.
> The two types I have mentioned work so stick with these.
> Woolworths Corded with IEC plug $14.00
> Kmart $9.00 cordless. Need to supply your own IEC cord.
> Nev




Rodger. Sounds like I picked up the right one, don't mind paying an extra $5 if it comes with everything I require.


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## Parks

Have you monitored the water temp using this Nev? I'd be interested to know if the heat loss to the coil would stop the water getting to boiling during ramp.

I think I'm going to Arduino this thing up so maybe I'll add a few extra sensors just for the hell of it.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Parks said:


> Have you monitored the water temp using this Nev? I'd be interested to know if the heat loss to the coil would stop the water getting to boiling during ramp.
> 
> I think I'm going to Arduino this thing up so maybe I'll add a few extra sensors just for the hell of it.


We found the water never actually gets to the boil, The HX is efficient and heats very quickly. The ramp speed will be determined by the flow going thru the coil. Faster flow = faster ramp but also more possibility of stuck grain bed, I usually start with a slow flow till protein and beginning of first sac rest then if its going well open it right up. Each brew is different and the start slow appoach is the safest method.
Nev


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## QldKev

I got some progress on my HERMIT today

I tried heating the side of the pipe up with a hair dryer so I could flatten the section as per the spec sheet. Hair dryer = FAIL! I stood there for 10mins on the high setting and it would not soften. 

Tweak time. 
Since there is a nice flat surface already on the base I though why not use it. 

Silicone seal in place with element pushed through




From the other side



Threw on the housing 




Base extension. This is only sitting there to get the idea.
I will cut it down to house the electrics, 
It will then just be butt joined / glued to the base, (doesn't need to be water tight here)
Then using a cable gland, I will plumb the cable through the sidewall. 
Finally seal the bum with another blank cover





Hope this helps someone with out a heat gun. I should add I also made the body an extra inch longer to allow for the extra height of the element being mounted vertically. 

Maybe Nev has tried this but found issues?

QldKev


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## Sully

QldKev said:


> I got some progress on my HERMIT today
> 
> I tried heating the side of the pipe up with a hair dryer so I could flatten the section as per the spec sheet. Hair dryer = FAIL! I stood there for 10mins on the high setting and it would not soften.
> 
> Tweak time.
> Since there is a nice flat surface already on the base I though why not use it.
> 
> Silicone seal in place with element pushed through
> View attachment 53202
> 
> 
> From the other side
> View attachment 53203
> 
> 
> Threw on the housing
> View attachment 53204
> 
> 
> 
> Base extension. This is only sitting there to get the idea.
> I will cut it down to house the electrics,
> It will then just be butt joined / glued to the base, (doesn't need to be water tight here)
> Then using a cable gland, I will plumb the cable through the sidewall.
> Finally seal the bum with another blank cover
> View attachment 53205
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps someone with out a heat gun. I should add I also made the body an extra inch longer to allow for the extra height of the element being mounted vertically.
> 
> Maybe Nev has tried this but found issues?
> 
> QldKev






Thats kinda the way I am going to do mine...


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## Online Brewing Supplies

QldKev said:


> I got some progress on my HERMIT today
> 
> I tried heating the side of the pipe up with a hair dryer so I could flatten the section as per the spec sheet. Hair dryer = FAIL! I stood there for 10mins on the high setting and it would not soften.
> 
> Tweak time.
> Since there is a nice flat surface already on the base I though why not use it.
> 
> Silicone seal in place with element pushed through
> View attachment 53202
> 
> 
> From the other side
> View attachment 53203
> 
> 
> Threw on the housing
> View attachment 53204
> 
> 
> 
> Base extension. This is only sitting there to get the idea.
> I will cut it down to house the electrics,
> It will then just be butt joined / glued to the base, (doesn't need to be water tight here)
> Then using a cable gland, I will plumb the cable through the sidewall.
> Finally seal the bum with another blank cover
> View attachment 53205
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this helps someone with out a heat gun. I should add I also made the body an extra inch longer to allow for the extra height of the element being mounted vertically.
> 
> Maybe Nev has tried this but found issues?
> 
> QldKev


Only issue I see is the taller it is the more likely it is to fall, nice big base will fix it though. I like to be able to see mine leaking you will just have to wait for the bang  
Could have use a stove top burner ? At least we know your hairdryer doesn't work.
Nevb


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Here is the new HERMIT-HX build guide.View attachment HERMIT_HX_build_Draft_V2.pdf
Thanks Chalky :beerbang: 
I thought I had posted it here before ?
Nev


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## brettprevans

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I thought I had posted it here before ?
> Nev


U posted in the.ss.coil thread page 7. Ive made some suggested.edits in that.thread.

Bought parts today. Brendo and I will be making ours this week hopefully.
Heat guns from big green shed r like $40 or cheaper. Useful for paint stripping etc if ur into furniture restoration etc (which is why I have one). 

Just got to source.a corded kettle. Missus checked out kmart and big w, but nothing. So will keep looking.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

citymorgue2 said:


> U posted in the.ss.coil thread page 7. Ive made some suggested.edits in that.thread.
> 
> Bought parts today. Brendo and I will be making ours this week hopefully.
> Heat guns from big green shed r like $40 or cheaper. Useful for paint stripping etc if ur into furniture restoration etc (which is why I have one).
> 
> Just got to source.a corded kettle. Missus checked out kmart and big w, but nothing. So will keep looking.


Woolworths have an "Essentials" corded jobs for $14.00


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## brettprevans

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Woolworths have an "Essentials" corded jobs for $14.00


Missues found one. Great find nev as they just pull apart. Unscrew 2 screws and ur right. How easy!


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## TidalPete

Kev,

Your element is placed the same way as the one in my present HE. You can easily cut down the height by using a small jiffy box & not using that plug on your extension cord. Just solder the cord wiring to the corresponding terminals (I've shrink-wrapped the bare parts after soldering) & pass the cord through the side of the box using a grommet.

*Brewers ---- Get an electrician to do this if you doubt your electrical ability.*

Securing the body of the HE can be done by cutting a hole to suit the dia of the PVC in the centre of two (glued-together) squares of 25mm ply, cutting it into two half sections & sitting them on a piece of thin flat ply or sheetmetal (with a hole in the centre to allow the jiffy box to pass through) fastened to blocks just high enough to clear the jiffy box off the brewery base. The rear half section is screwed to both the flat & the blocks while the other is kept loose to be bolted to the rigid half using bolts & star nuts on either side in the manner of a clamp & tightening both halves together with wing nuts until your setup is anchored firmly to your brewery base if you get my drift? You would probably need to pack the upper part of the two halves to fill the gap caused by the wider dia of the bottom cap?
A couple of coats of Estapol will water-proof the whole thing.
Might need a little fine-tuning but I'll be doing this when replacing my copper coil/HE with GB's HE after getting rid of the rest of the brass & copper in my HERMES.

It's times like this I wish I'd learnt to sketch in "Paint" or a similar prog. 

TP


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## Online Brewing Supplies

I have heard that the keg king element is not suitable for the build , a little too much power.  
Nev


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## QldKev

They are not that much more powerful than the kettle element? Hope a few houses are not going to get burnt down over this, or worse still people killed. 

I wont get a chance to run mine for a few more weeks, but I'm hoping since I've stayed to the spec sheet heating specification all will be ok, otherwise it's well over $100 down the drain.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

QldKev said:


> They are not that much more powerful than the kettle element? Hope a few houses are not going to get burnt down over this, or worse still people killed.
> 
> I wont get a chance to run mine for a few more weeks, but I'm hoping since I've stayed to the spec sheet heating specification all will be ok, otherwise it's well over $100 down the drain.


I think a very important aspect is that your controller can actually control the element off/on cycle properly. If it does then your water will never get near the boil.
The pump is in a loop and you should not shut off the pump while mashing ,if you do you will get a boil over, I know as I have tried it.
Be careful . If not sure ask a question.
Nev


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## eamonnfoley

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Here is the new HERMIT-HX build guide.View attachment 53312
> Thanks Chalky :beerbang:
> I thought I had posted it here before ?
> Nev



Awesome work mate. I'll have to pick up my coil soon and get started. That coil will also be useful as a prechiller (in ice bucket) for tap water heading into a plate chiller.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

foles said:


> Awesome work mate. I'll have to pick up my coil soon and get started. That coil will also be useful as a prechiller (in ice bucket) for tap water heading into a plate chiller.


Foles I dont think this HERMIT coil has reached its full potential yet, there are a few other applications which it does suit.
ATM its my HERMIT HX.
Nev


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## gava

Is anyone using the HERMIT as a chiller also?
If so can you do a single pass like a plate chilller?


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## Aces High

Just a word of caution. I think I must have picked up the stormwater PVC pipe rather than the thicker PVC pipe. It was still 9 bucks at bunnings so I didn't check the thickness or code against the build code. I just did a test run and heated some water up to close to boiling and the walls become soft and can be pushed in quiet easily. I can't imagine it would hold up for long even though the unit didn't leak at all.

Oh well, it was a good test run, i reckon I can knock another one of these out in no time


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## Kingbrownbrewing

That could very well have been the problem I had as well.

Good to know.


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## Parks

Aces High said:


> Just a word of caution. I think I must have picked up the stormwater PVC pipe rather than the thicker PVC pipe. It was still 9 bucks at bunnings so I didn't check the thickness or code against the build code. I just did a test run and heated some water up to close to boiling and the walls become soft and can be pushed in quiet easily. I can't imagine it would hold up for long even though the unit didn't leak at all.
> 
> Oh well, it was a good test run, i reckon I can knock another one of these out in no time



I'm pretty sure the offcut I have and plan to use is storm water, but it would be at least 3mm thick. Any idea what thickness yours was?


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## NickB

All PVC pipe will become soft to some extent. I would look at the thickest you could possibly get, or just use a bigw pot or similar. Personally I wouldn't use PVC at all for the softness reason.

Cheerd


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## Aces High

Parks said:


> I'm pretty sure the offcut I have and plan to use is storm water, but it would be at least 3mm thick. Any idea what thickness yours was?



Definitely less than 3mm, more like 2 mill at a guess.

I was thinking when I put the flat section in that it was very easy to heat and flatten


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## brettprevans

Nev - I suggest you update the guide with my suggestions on the ss coil thread. Brendo and I are pretty much finished and used your guide, but a few tweaks in the guide and it would be perfect. That being said, the guide is fine (other than a tooltard or someone with no common sense may struggle with the fact that there is no actual step telling them to cut the 40mm hole for the electrical assembly :lol: ).

fairly basic to make. although our holes for the elec assembly were too big (either hole saw isnt accurate or the elec assembly wasnt measured correctly). but nothing silicone cant fix.

tip to others - you really want to get your coil holes centered. mine might be slightly off centre and the coil is very close to the tube wall. it should be ok though.

the ss coils are pretty sweet nev. very nicely made.


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## AndrewQLD

I'd agree with CM2, his suggestions would benefit some who have less build experience.
Here's a pic of the finished product with thanks to Nev and Batz. The build was easy and from tests I am hoping for faster ramp times compared to my old HERMS, I'll be doing my first brew tomorrow so fingers crossed.
She has more silicone than Pamela Anderson and looks better too :lol:


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## brettprevans

AndrewQLD said:


> I'd agree with CM2, his suggestions would benefit some who have less build experience.
> Here's a pic of the finished product with thanks to Nev and Batz. The build was easy and from tests I am hoping for faster ramp times compared to my old HERMS, I'll be doing my first brew tomorrow so fingers crossed.
> She has more silicone than Pamela Anderson and looks better too :lol:
> 
> View attachment 53396


nothing wrong with silicone. its stuff of the gods along with WD40

edit: the only other suggestion i'd include is a note saying that blue plumbers glue sets fkn fast. get that pipe fitted quicky cause once it starts to set, it sets hard.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

citymorgue2 said:


> nothing wrong with silicone. its stuff of the gods along with WD40
> 
> edit: the only other suggestion i'd include is a note saying that blue plumbers glue sets fkn fast. get that pipe fitted quicky cause once it starts to set, it sets hard.


I got all the updates ready, will have the Build Guide V3 out next week.
I am just waiting on my commission from Bunnings.  
CM2 you will find that your coil holes will get loose of a few uses and its easier to get the coil in and out. I now use a couple of keg post O rings to hold the coil (ends) from dropping in the HX. Cheap fix.
I would also increase vent hole to 10mm as I boiled my HX intentionally and the water shot out of the small hole like a volcano. Larger hole should fix this.
Nev


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## AndrewQLD

Gave the coil a run today, managed 2 degree per minute ramp from 67 degrees to 78 degrees, the mash was 16lt to 3.75 kg grain, seems about the same as my old herms, however being such a small compact unit using less volume of water over the coil means a faster heat up time of the water itself which is great.
I didn't experience any warping of the PVC and it didn't get soft even when I ramped up to mash out at 78 degrees, great little design Nev.


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## ekul

Good to see you firing up the brewery Andrew! I'm thinking about adding one of these coils to my biab rig for mash control.



AndrewQLD said:


> Gave the coil a run today, managed 2 degree per minute ramp from 67 degrees to 78 degrees, the mash was 16lt to 3.75 kg grain, seems about the same as my old herms, however being such a small compact unit using less volume of water over the coil means a faster heat up time of the water itself which is great.
> I didn't experience any warping of the PVC and it didn't get soft even when I ramped up to mash out at 78 degrees, great little design Nev.
> 
> View attachment 53417
> View attachment 53418


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## Online Brewing Supplies

AndrewQLD said:


> Gave the coil a run today, managed 2 degree per minute ramp from 67 degrees to 78 degrees, the mash was 16lt to 3.75 kg grain, seems about the same as my old herms, however being such a small compact unit using less volume of water over the coil means a faster heat up time of the water itself which is great.
> I didn't experience any warping of the PVC and it didn't get soft even when I ramped up to mash out at 78 degrees, great little design Nev.
> 
> View attachment 53417
> View attachment 53418


Andrew 
Thats great, how was your flow rate ?
The reason I ask is that if you can increase the flow rate the unit should ramp quicker, this does depend on your false bottom design and grain bed formation.
I would rather slower ramp than stuck mash though.
Nev


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## AndrewQLD

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Andrew
> Thats great, how was your flow rate ?
> The reason I ask is that if you can increase the flow rate the unit should ramp quicker, this does depend on your false bottom design and grain bed formation.
> I would rather slower ramp than stuck mash though.
> Nev



Nev
I could have increased the flow a little more as the mash was fairly loose, I was recirculating at about 4 lt per minute I think, I'm happy with the ramp rate as is 2, degrees a minute is pretty good and I don't want to push my luck.

ekul, sounds like your heady towards a 3v system mate


----------



## Truman42

The easiest way I found to flatten the pipe was I placed a piece of pine 3.5" x 1.5" inside the pipe with the short end up and shimmed it with a wooden ruler underneath so it was a tight fit against the wall of the pipe. then I heated my pipe and pressed a piece of flat steel against the top which pushed the pipe down flat against my wooden block inside.

Unfortunately I found this out on my second attempt so had to reheat again after I had drilled the hole. Hopefully it wont leak or its back to the drawing board.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> The easiest way I found to flatten the pipe was I placed a piece of pine 3.5" x 1.5" inside the pipe with the short end up and shimmed it with a wooden ruler underneath so it was a tight fit against the wall of the pipe. then I heated my pipe and pressed a piece of flat steel against the top which pushed the pipe down flat against my wooden block inside.
> 
> Unfortunately I found this out on my second attempt so had to reheat again after I had drilled the hole. Hopefully it wont leak or its back to the drawing board.


Yep some blocking on the inside is the go. Second attempts are becoming the norm, hence my suggestion take your time.  
Nev


----------



## iralosavic

Just wondering if anyone has contemplated the use of a Thermos as the housing for this? 

The lids are designed to remain air/liquid tight under pressure and the walls are rather well insulated. I'm not sure of the ID of the one I've linked to, but I'm sure there is one out there to suit the coil. It's a bit more expensive than the PVC build, but would offer superior longevity and thermal properties.

Cheers


----------



## kelbygreen

I am making my own (might get nevs coil as not sure if mine will cut it) but I am thinking of a bain marie canister for utensils. They are 2 lts about 144mm wide and 170mm high SS  have a few other sizes to but for the price its cheap as


----------



## sean_0

iralosavic said:


> Just wondering if anyone has contemplated the use of a Thermos as the housing for this?
> 
> The lids are designed to remain air/liquid tight under pressure and the walls are rather well insulated. I'm not sure of the ID of the one I've linked to, but I'm sure there is one out there to suit the coil. It's a bit more expensive than the PVC build, but would offer superior longevity and thermal properties.
> 
> Cheers



I think the vaccum is a big part of their insulating ability, and you would probably have to break it to get an element in there.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

iralosavic said:


> Just wondering if anyone has contemplated the use of a Thermos as the housing for this?
> 
> The lids are designed to remain air/liquid tight under pressure and the walls are rather well insulated. I'm not sure of the ID of the one I've linked to, but I'm sure there is one out there to suit the coil. It's a bit more expensive than the PVC build, but would offer superior longevity and thermal properties.
> 
> Cheers


Yes I had looked at this option but couldnt find the right size thermos flask with a big enough opening.
Nev


----------



## iralosavic

kelbygreen said:


> I am making my own (might get nevs coil as not sure if mine will cut it) but I am thinking of a bain marie canister for utensils. They are 2 lts about 144mm wide and 170mm high SS  have a few other sizes to but for the price its cheap as



I'd looked at ice buckets/champagne coolers, but the dimensions were off. I was basing my search on the ready-made HERMs coil... To suit said coil, the dimensions you've mentioned are too wide and not heigh enough. What are your plans regarding coiling your own pipe? Also, one of the reasons I thought of a thermos is due to the fact that the lid can be screwed on. One of the design issues in my mind was a lid that is both removable and able to hold a reasonable amount of pressure in a water tight fashion (don't want evaporation to lift the lid).


----------



## kelbygreen

well my coil is about 110mm wide and only 150 tall but I need to get a element to figure out if it will fit. They have a 3lt version but its wider and taller, I would like it to just be taller but struggling to find something that is unless I get something made up. I really dont want to go PVC as I like to leave my brewery and do other things and if something where to go wrong then I would rather burnt wort then burnt shed $45 in grain lost is bugger all compaired to my shed and my brewery burning to the ground. Not saying pvc is not the way to go but for $25 for a 2lt SS canister I would feel alot safer.


----------



## iralosavic

kelbygreen said:


> well my coil is about 110mm wide and only 150 tall but I need to get a element to figure out if it will fit. They have a 3lt version but its wider and taller, I would like it to just be taller but struggling to find something that is unless I get something made up. I really dont want to go PVC as I like to leave my brewery and do other things and if something where to go wrong then I would rather burnt wort then burnt shed $45 in grain lost is bugger all compaired to my shed and my brewery burning to the ground. Not saying pvc is not the way to go but for $25 for a 2lt SS canister I would feel alot safer.



Your thoughts echo my own, especially after the PVC "melt-down" of my hop spider V1.0 

I think a custom coil would be easier to DIY or cheaper to have made up, so better off buying the canister ready-made.

How would you get around the lid just sitting in place? Or do you think that isn't a concern?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

kelbygreen said:


> well my coil is about 110mm wide and only 150 tall but I need to get a element to figure out if it will fit. They have a 3lt version but its wider and taller, I would like it to just be taller but struggling to find something that is unless I get something made up. I really dont want to go PVC as I like to leave my brewery and do other things and if something where to go wrong then I would rather burnt wort then burnt shed $45 in grain lost is bugger all compaired to my shed and my brewery burning to the ground. Not saying pvc is not the way to go but for $25 for a 2lt SS canister I would feel alot safer.


Melt Down  Its never going to happen if you have a controller directing the power to the HX. Either way you still need a controller and thats what makes it safe, not the canister.
Nev


----------



## iralosavic

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Melt Down  Its never going to happen if you have a controller directing the power to the HX. Either way you still need a controller and thats what makes it safe, not the canister.
> Nev



Yeah, look I personally don't think that PVC is likely to introduce issues at sub 80c - maybe some softening, perhaps minor or temporary distortion in the worst case. I guess I'm just more of a metal guy! I might end up making a HE as per your pdf, but I have plenty of time to explore other housing options meanwhile. My main thing is that I'd rather buy a professionally spun coil than attempt doing it myself.


----------



## kelbygreen

I had about 2.4m of 1/2" cooper laying about so attempted my own its rough and its got little kinks but wort will flow threw. I will get a SS one when I get some money but trying to just sus stuff out with what I got ATM. Still rather SS for a canister but if I cant find anything suitable then it will have to be PVC.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

iralosavic said:


> Yeah, look I personally don't think that PVC is likely to introduce issues at sub 80c - maybe some softening, perhaps minor or temporary distortion in the worst case. I guess I'm just more of a metal guy! I might end up making a HE as per your pdf, but I have plenty of time to explore other housing options meanwhile. My main thing is that I'd rather buy a professionally spun coil than attempt doing it myself.


No it wont happen even setting the controller at mash out 77C. I have insulated my PVC HX rocket to hold heat in and it doesnt look like getting unstable.
The system was designed and tested to do what it does. Go outside the design loop and I would appreciate the results for future reference.
Nev


----------



## Feldon

kelbygreen said:


> I had about 2.4m of 1/2" cooper laying about so attempted my own its rough and its got little kinks but wort will flow threw. I will get a SS one when I get some money but trying to just sus stuff out with what I got ATM. Still rather SS for a canister but if I cant find anything suitable then it will have to be PVC.




Just thinking.... perhaps a stainless steel square section toilet brush holder? 

Something like this :





(www.infolink.com.au/c/Barben-Industries/Square-toilet-brush-holder-available-from-Barben-Industries-n848151)


----------



## Feldon

Here's a cheap one...


----------



## kelbygreen

yeah good idea, its great to get different opinions as i would never of thought of that lol, be good to get the sizes of them . Another thing I thought of was to find a place that sells SS pipe and see if you could buy a small section. But a square extrusion or the one you linked would be good as you wouldnt have to mount from the bottom.


----------



## Feldon

And you get a free dunny brush for whirpooling


----------



## kelbygreen

Feldon said:


> And you get a free dunny brush for whirpooling



LMFAO


----------



## Feldon

Even cheaper..




(http://www.nisbets.com.au/product.asp?pID=4580&cID=466).

Could use the stainless disc on the brush handle to mount the coil, and leave the central hole as a breather to vent the steam.

But.. can't see in the pic if the cylinder has a seamed base (leaky?, but could solder it watertight) or whether it is all one piece of stainless steel. And delivery is $25 in Sydney area and more to other locations.


----------



## Truman42

I have two different types of those toilet brush holders and its just thin walled, crimped together with a plastic base. 
I doubt if your going to find a solid one piece stainless toilet brush holder for that price.


----------



## Truman42

Well here's my attempt. Powered by CAT of course...




Im new to Herms and have a question......If im going to use this with my STC1000 would I hook up both my pump and HX to the STC so have circulation start only if the temp drops and the element kicks in? 

Or do you keep circulation going for the entire 90 min mash and let the HX cut in and out when required?


----------



## pk.sax

the latter.

btw T, are you tearing up your pillow cover or still hanging halfway on the other side?


----------



## kelbygreen

never used one but I think the pump keeps going all the time. Some people that build controllers put pump rests in to rest the pump once and a while but other then that you should prob leave it going.


----------



## Truman42

practicalfool said:


> the latter.
> 
> btw T, are you tearing up your pillow cover or still hanging halfway on the other side?



What??? I have no idea what you mean?


----------



## Truman42

practicalfool said:


> the latter.
> 
> btw T, are you tearing up your pillow cover or still hanging halfway on the other side?


Lol. Yeh I just got it you mean my biab bag. Going to give a 3v system a go now that I have 2 urns and can build one cheap enough. See if my brews taste any better. 

(I actually thought you were referring to some inside joke dad must have told you about when they were down here at Xmas time. But had no idea what it might have been.


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## pk.sax

hahahahaha.. We've got your dad away from hoisting the bag so far  He has a manifold now, doing 2V I think. If you are going to all the effort of recirculating and a HEX, might as well give the bag a heave ho, not that it will fly far


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> Well here's my attempt. Powered by CAT of course...
> 
> View attachment 53568
> 
> 
> Im new to Herms and have a question......If im going to use this with my STC1000 would I hook up both my pump and HX to the STC so have circulation start only if the temp drops and the element kicks in?
> 
> Or do you keep circulation going for the entire 90 min mash and let the HX cut in and out when required?


Recirc the whole time.
Nev


----------



## Feldon

Truman said:


> I have two different types of those toilet brush holders ....



I'm surprised - thought you would be using the PIAB method.


----------



## pk.sax

Feldon said:


> I'm surprised - thought you would be using the PIAB method.


Bahahhahahaa

as for me, I'm tossing up between this and a dedicated decoction setup, i.e. a sort of 4 tier with a deccoction pot with a 1" valve and a stirrer OR this hermit coil thing.


----------



## Truman42

Another tip... There is a green button on the front of the element housing that the element backing plate pushes in once screwed together. For some reason mine wasn't pushed in far enough and the element wouldn't work. Although it was all sealed and didnt leak so work that one out. i think its because the 3mm pipe wall is thicker than the standard wall the element goes through in the kettle. 
I found this out after my silicone had dried and had to pull it all apart. 

So check for continuity with a meter once you screw it all together and before your silicone sets. And make sure your screws are nice and tight.


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing

Did my first proper brew on my HERMS build yesterday, was getting 2 degrees per minute ramp times, and my efficiency is up around 85%.

Mash never got more than .5 of a degree off where I wanted it.

Great investment for absolute control over temperature.


----------



## NickB

Nice work Dan! I debuted my new mash tun Friday - hit 84% efficiency too, so stoked. The lager will be a little more full on than anticipated though 

Cheers


----------



## QldKev

Giving my HERMIT it's first run today. I took one measurement during the ramp from the protein rest to sac rest.

I started the timer at 60.3c (just some random point when I thought to time it), and checked when it hit 65c. It took 15min 50secs. So about 0.3 degree per minute. This was with a full flow, using a march pump and both valves fully open. 

This is a bit longer than I expected from my water calc. 
I used 
Water 53L
Grain weight 14.15kg (I just factored this as 1kg = 1L of water for the amount of heat it will suck up during the ramp)
So 67L of water
1800w element
Temp diff 4.7c
The calc gives me 12mins
So I'm pretty happy with 15min 50sec as by the time you factor in the heat losses from the HERMIT + Mash tun + pump + hoses.
It works out pretty close to the ramp rated calculated.

Obviously a slower flow would allow the outlet wort to get warmer faster, but the mash temp would lag further behind. I had up to a 5 degree lag in the bottom of the mash tun. 

Long term due to the volume to be heated in my system I will be using the internal RIMS + HERMIT to help raise the temp, but I only used the HERMIT today as a test. I'll chuck a video on youtube later. 

The outside of the HERMIT got warm to touch, but nothing to worry about. I'll see how it goes in the ramp to mashout, where I plan on running both RIMS + HERMIT. If I feel comfortable with the temp I may try using the insulation I cut for it. 


QldKev


----------



## Fourstar

Quick update!

Received my coil last Friday and Maple, Brendo, CM2 and myself gave it a run through on our monster brew day #3 yesterday. Seemed to hold up to the pressures of mashing 30 odd kg of grain and ramping 70-120L of mash liquor from mash temps to mash out and beyond.

Only issue we ran into really was with my new PID controller. With the temperature calibration being out (so much for self calibrating) we ramped outside of mash temp without realising it (trying to hold at 64-66deg and were ramping to 70-73). Today I managed to calibrate and auto tune the PID and reading against my digital thermometer and it is now within .5 deg between 30-95c ramp readings.

The setup is a simple hermit + kettle job with a few ghetto holes drilled in the lid to run pipes and kettle is silicone glued to the plastic base. Im planning on upgrading it to an even ghetto-er $9 k-mart kettle jobby which is slightly smaller in dimensions and would be a much more stable base than my current setup.

I'm planning on running it on my own system tomorrow with a double batch of smoked porter. I will keep you posted on how it all goes with 'normal' batch sizes.
You can see the picture of the hermit (in the background) in the brewday http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=898624 thread.

All in all a great bit of kit nev. :beerbang: 

Cheers.


----------



## QldKev

Follow up from here

Ramped up to mashout temp no problems! As the HERMIT output hit 77c, the water inside the HERMIT hit 86c. Didn't time the ramp as I had both the RIMS + HERMS running together, as expected it was a lot quicker than the RIMS by itself (which the project was for). With 2400w RIMS + 1800w HERMS = 4200w worth of heat exchangers, I can now get reasonable ramp times. 

I did find the first half of the ramping both heat exchangers ran full time, but once again the return line from the HERMIT hit about 5c higher than the output from the internal RIMS, so it hit mashout temps first and stated cycling. But since the output of my RIMS feeds the HERMS this will always happen. I don't have plans to modify it to run them in parallel.

Overall I call the HERMIT a success!



Has anyone insulated the PVC pipe to help reduce heat loss?


QldKev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

QldKev said:


> Has anyone insulated the PVC pipe to help reduce heat loss?
> 
> 
> QldKev


Yes I have insulated my hermit but havent got any solid figures to show its quicker or more efficient. Obviously it will be more efficient but is it a big factor, dont know.
I think insulating your tun and having a lid on the vessels would gain better results.
Nev


----------



## QldKev

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes I have insulated my hermit but havent got any solid figures to show its quicker or more efficient. Obviously it will be more efficient but is it a big factor, dont know.
> I think insulating your tun and having a lid on the vessels would gain better results.
> Nev




Cool, it looks safe to add the insulation. The Mash tun is already insulated and has a lid, and I've already got a piece of the same insulation ready for the HERMS, but wanted to make sure someone else had done it. 

QldKev


----------



## Truman42

QldKev said:


> Cool, it looks safe to add the insulation. The Mash tun is already insulated and has a lid, and I've already got a piece of the same insulation ready for the HERMS, but wanted to make sure someone else had done it.
> 
> QldKev


What are you using to insulate it Kev?


----------



## QldKev

Truman said:


> What are you using to insulate it Kev?



$5 camping mat from Sam's warehouse. Seems to work pretty well, if you touch the mat while it is running it is surprisingly cool. I just glued on some velcro to make removal easy.






QldKev


----------



## Fourstar

QldKev said:


> $5 camping mat from Sam's warehouse. Seems to work pretty well, if you touch the mat while it is running it is surprisingly cool. I just glued on some velcro to make removal easy.
> View attachment 53588
> 
> QldKev




Ive so got to pull my finger out and do something like this as the idea of making up a neoprene wetsuit for my mash tun is slipping father away based on cost.

Bite the bullet and goto sams/kmart me thinks. Plents of camping/gym mats that are perfect for the job.

Well the grainbill is prepped for my smoked porter double batch tomorrow. If im not half asleep, i'll attempt to take some vitals on the ramps.

Cheers.


----------



## mxd

Fourstar said:


> Ive so got to pull my finger out and do something like this as the idea of making up a neoprene wetsuit for my mash tun is slipping father away based on cost.
> 
> Bite the bullet and goto sams/kmart me thinks. Plents of camping/gym mats that are perfect for the job.
> 
> Well the grainbill is prepped for my smoked porter double batch tomorrow. If im not half asleep, i'll attempt to take some vitals on the ramps.
> 
> Cheers.



how did it go on the big mash ?

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, but my normal is 12-14kg grain + water (35ltrs ?) to fill 50 ltr keg to hold mash or ramp. 

I normally add 30 ltrs of water to mlt then ramp (via HERMS) to mash+3 degrees, then mash in and drop PID back to mash temp. 

My current setup ramps about about 1 degree every 1.5 minutes with valves fully open (I always leave valves fully open) and holds the temp perfectly.


----------



## brendo

mxd said:


> how did it go on the big mash ?
> 
> I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, but my normal is 12-14kg grain + water (35ltrs ?) to fill 50 ltr keg to hold mash or ramp.
> 
> I normally add 30 ltrs of water to mlt then ramp (via HERMS) to mash+3 degrees, then mash in and drop PID back to mash temp.
> 
> My current setup ramps about about 1 degree every 1.5 minutes with valves fully open (I always leave valves fully open) and holds the temp perfectly.



If we take the uncalibrated PID out of the equation, it performed extremely well on the 160l mash tun. 25-30kg grain with a pretty loose mash to aid recirc. 

Should handle a full 50l tun with complete ease.


----------



## Fourstar

after calibrating thermocouple and reading from the outlet correctly here are the vitals from my double batch porter im brewing just now. i just hit the dextrinization rest.

10KG mash @ 3L:kg

dough in @ 55deg for 10 mins
ramp to 63 - 9:55-10:05 - 1 min 15 sec/deg ramp time
ramp to 70 - 10:40-10:49 - 1 min 17 sec/deg ramp time

PRetty kick arse and my digital thermomenter is reading within 1 deg in other parts of the mash.. stoked.

thinking about it, where we were measuring the temp in the mash was somewhat a deadspace as the return wort was passing below and away from the thermocouple so that may have also contributed to a dicky reading pre-calibration. 

I calibrated last night at my mash temp (63deg) and then compared ranges from ambient (20deg~) all the way through to 95 deg and there was only ever 1 deg~ difference with my digital thermometer. Nothing as wide as what we were reading on the day.


----------



## brendo

Fourstar said:


> after calibrating thermocouple and reading from the outlet correctly here are the vitals from my double batch porter im brewing just now. i just hit the dextrinization rest.
> 
> 10KG mash @ 3L:kg
> 
> dough in @ 55deg for 10 mins
> ramp to 63 - 9:55-10:05 - 1 min 15 sec/deg ramp time
> ramp to 70 - 10:40-10:49 - 1 min 17 sec/deg ramp time
> 
> PRetty kick arse and my digital thermomenter is reading within 1 deg in other parts of the mash.. stoked.
> 
> thinking about it, where we were measuring the temp in the mash was somewhat a deadspace as the return wort was passing below and away from the thermocouple so that may have also contributed to a dicky reading pre-calibration.
> 
> I calibrated last night at my mash temp (63deg) and then compared ranges from ambient (20deg~) all the way through to 95 deg and there was only ever 1 deg~ difference with my digital thermometer. Nothing as wide as what we were reading on the day.



Nice work Fourstar!!


----------



## Tim F

TidalPete said:


> Just solder the cord wiring to the corresponding terminals (I've shrink-wrapped the bare parts after soldering) & pass the cord through the side of the box using a grommet.



I was told never to use solder for mains wiring - you should always use the screw in push connectors as solder can get hot enough to melt with 240V in some circumstances. Dunno if that's 100% correct but worth mentioning


----------



## Aces High

I changed mine around a bit to save having to melt and flatten the PVC. This also allowed me to split another bit of tube and wrap it around the middle section for added support and insulation. Then a third layer split and heat bent to act as a holder for it. The unit attaches to the side of my BIAB trolley, but can be taken off when needed.


----------



## iralosavic

Aces High said:


> I changed mine around a bit to save having to melt and flatten the PVC. This also allowed me to split another bit of tube and wrap it around the middle section for added support and insulation. Then a third layer split and heat bent to act as a holder for it. The unit attaches to the side of my BIAB trolley, but can be taken off when needed.



Nice one. Where do you have the recirculation return going to? On/above the grain or down the bottom?


----------



## Aces High

Im working on a recirculating BIAB system. I picked up these ex laboritory collander from a grays online auction. Unfortunatley they also have holes right up the sides so I had to still put the bag in as I couldn't get a proper grainbed. Im thinking of maybe a circular thin stainless insert to go around the sides so i can get rid of the bag altogether. Its all still a work in progress, so its currently pretty messy


----------



## DuaneS

for the couple of people looking for a stainless vessel, try an exhaust shop, truck exhausts, I fitted a new stack to truck on the weekend, its chromed steel, but was 100mm dia, I am not sure if you can get it in stainless, but might be worth a few phone calls.
Doubt it will be cheap though


----------



## sama

Whats the basic operation of such a unit? Im a single infusion man... Do you.. 1. Dough in with appropriate water from HLT..2.Recirculate through HX back to MLT. Does the HX contents need to be pre heated before the first recirc? Where do u measure the wort temp in the tun to control the HX temp? When it comes to mashout, i take it you let the HX get the wort to a higher temp? batch sparge as per normal with appropriate water from HLT and recirc for clarity?


----------



## kelbygreen

1. you dough in usually higher I think as you are not infusing the mash with any extra liquid and a thin mash will help the flow of things. 
2. Not sure about heating the hex before hand but warming the water to the same temp your mash should be wouldnt hurt. I guess the best method would be to run the system when the strike water is in till it maintains the temp then put the grain in and start your mash as normal. 
The temp is usually measured as it comes out of the hex
3. if you are going to the trouble of recirculating I would be looking into fly sparging as you just spent all that time setting up a grain bed and a "filter" to go and stir it all up right at the end.


----------



## Fourstar

kelbygreen said:


> 3. if you are going to the trouble of recirculating I would be looking into fly sparging as you just spent all that time setting up a grain bed and a "filter" to go and stir it all up right at the end.



if you brew in keg shaped vessels and do double batches... yes, adapt fly sparging where possible. i wanted to cry after getting such clean and polished wort to then mud it up with somewhat murky second runnings. <_< 

single batches? heck im just going to gently add my 'sparge' water to the batch slowly as i raise to mashout or full volume mash it like BIAB. with the efficiency increase i had on the weekend with my double batch (an extra 9% , from 68% to 77% into fermenter) im not concerned about no sparge brewing and efficiency problems.


----------



## bradsbrew

kelbygreen said:


> 3. if you are going to the trouble of recirculating I would be looking into fly sparging as you just spent all that time setting up a grain bed and a "filter" to go and stir it all up right at the end.






Fourstar said:


> if you brew in keg shaped vessels and do double batches... yes, adapt fly sparging where possible. i wanted to cry after getting such clean and polished wort to then mud it up with somewhat murky second runnings. <_<



I am going to give fly sparging a go. I have found that since going to HERMS I have added an extra hour onto my brewday and alot of this time is spent recirculating my 2 sparges to get it clear again.

Hit 90% (64L into cubes) today using the coil in the $8 abode kettle. Obviously the increase was due to multiple things I've changed. But I wouldn't mind losing a few% eff to get a bit of time back.
Looks like I'll need another pump to fly sparge though?

Cheers


----------



## Truman42

Anyone else have problems with their coil fitting properly in the pipe? My coil ends come out of the holes in the lid on an angle instead of straight and I seem to have all sorts of problems trying to get my lid to screw on correctly. 

I positioned the coil on top of the lid as central as I could get it before marking and drilling the holes.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> Anyone else have problems with their coil fitting properly in the pipe? My coil ends come out of the holes in the lid on an angle instead of straight and I seem to have all sorts of problems trying to get my lid to screw on correctly.
> 
> I positioned the coil on top of the lid as central as I could get it before marking and drilling the holes.


Drill the holes bigger or let it heat up and the holes will loosen. They all start out tight.  

Nev


----------



## Truman42

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Drill the holes bigger or let it heat up and the holes will loosen. They all start out tight.
> 
> Nev



They certainly do Nev..they certainly do....  

My holes arent that tight but will make them a bit bigger and see how I go..Cheers.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> They certainly do Nev..they certainly do....
> 
> My holes arent that tight but will make them a bit bigger and see how I go..Cheers.


If that doesnt work get a new wife I mean lid and start again.They are cheap.
Nev


----------



## AndrewQLD

bradsbrew said:


> I am going to give fly sparging a go. I have found that since going to HERMS I have added an extra hour onto my brewday and alot of this time is spent recirculating my 2 sparges to get it clear again.
> 
> Hit 90% (64L into cubes) today using the coil in the $8 abode kettle. Obviously the increase was due to multiple things I've changed. But I wouldn't mind losing a few% eff to get a bit of time back.
> Looks like I'll need another pump to fly sparge though?
> 
> Cheers



Why are you sparging twice Brad? I dough in with half my total water volume + the loss to grain absorption and the remainder is sparge water, effectively I am draining equal amounts of wort and my efficiency is 80%.

Andrew


----------



## bradsbrew

AndrewQLD said:


> Why are you sparging twice Brad? I dough in with half my total water volume + the loss to grain absorption and the remainder is sparge water, effectively I am draining equal amounts of wort and my efficiency is 80%.
> 
> Andrew



I found I got better eff doing a double sparge with the triple cube batches. But now with the herms I may not need too?

Cheers


----------



## AndrewQLD

bradsbrew said:


> I found I got better eff doing a double sparge with the triple cube batches. But now with the herms I may not need too?
> 
> Cheers



Only one way to find out  so long as you have enough mash tun room I can't see why you'd have a problem.


----------



## argon

bradsbrew said:


> I found I got better eff doing a double sparge with the triple cube batches. But now with the herms I may not need too?
> 
> Cheers


Ot... Yeah you may not need to if you're getting a good bump in efficiency. It's just a pay off of time effort and result.

For a rundown on double sparging have a read here and the associated braukaiser link within. Basic rundown is, double is significantly more efficient than single, triple is only slightly more efficient than double... So the effort vs reward ratio is best with a double sparge.

In saying that, now I have the Herms coil setup and 2 pumps, I'll be startIng fly sparging as it fits with my brewday timing.


----------



## Parks

Not that I have read everyone's posts on the matter but wondering if you guys pump through your HX to your kettle and have your HX set to full bore on the way? Probably not going to get much heat increase depending on your pump speed...


----------



## Fourstar

Parks said:


> Not that I have read everyone's posts on the matter but wondering if you guys pump through your HX to your kettle and have your HX set to full bore on the way? Probably not going to get much heat increase depending on your pump speed...



In my case, mash tin open full bore and egress the pump to hermit I have it open just enough to keep up with gravity on the way down into the top of the tun a speed akin to what I batch sparge at. Estimate 15-20 seconds/l

The slower you flow the faster the hermit gets to temp.


----------



## Parks

Fourstar said:


> In my case, mash tin open full bore and egress the pump to hermit I have it open just enough to keep up with gravity on the way down into the top of the tun a speed akin to what I batch sparge at. Estimate 15-20 seconds/l
> 
> The slower you flow the faster the hermit gets to temp.



Sure, but the question I meant was do you use your HERMIT to add heat to your runnings (is it worth the effort)?


----------



## bradsbrew

Parks said:


> Sure, but the question I meant was do you use your HERMIT to add heat to your runnings (is it worth the effort)?




Parks, I run mine through the Hex but have already raised to mash out temp and recirced before swapping balve valves to send it to the kettle. I turn the rambo to low just before starting to send to kettle as well. I normally have 80L of wort boiling by the time the 2nd sparge is finished.


----------



## booargy

Parks said:


> Sure, but the question I meant was do you use your HERMIT to add heat to your runnings (is it worth the effort)?



It is probably better to run your sparge water through it. I reckon there are 2 advantges to this, it adjusts your sparge water temp and flushes the unit with clean water. I don't know for sure as I have a rims unit.


----------



## Parks

booargy said:


> It is probably better to run your sparge water through it. I reckon there are 2 advantges to this, it adjusts your sparge water temp and flushes the unit with clean water. I don't know for sure as I have a rims unit.


I like that idea but I am planning on using my coil for chilling aswell so it's not really an advantage to cleaning. I don't think the sparge water temp needs to be any more precise than my crown urn temp dial (surely?)


----------



## Parks

bradsbrew said:


> Parks, I run mine through the Hex but have already raised to mash out temp and recirced before swapping balve valves to send it to the kettle. I turn the rambo to low just before starting to send to kettle as well. I normally have 80L of wort boiling by the time the 2nd sparge is finished.


Yeah, my NASA has it up to temp pretty damn quick too - it was really just a thought.


----------



## Fourstar

bradsbrew said:


> Parks, I run mine through the Hex but have already raised to mash out temp and recirced before swapping balve valves to send it to the kettle.




pretty much follow the same process. i simply take the outlet hose sitting on top of the mash during recirc into the kettle and continue to run via the HE. Any benefits i would get from the HE to the kettle would be insignificant i would think.


----------



## QldKev

Fourstar said:


> In my case, mash tin open full bore and egress the pump to hermit I have it open just enough to keep up with gravity on the way down into the top of the tun a speed akin to what I batch sparge at. Estimate 15-20 seconds/l
> 
> The slower you flow the faster the hermit gets to temp.




But the slower the flow more your mash bed lags behind. Wouldn't a faster flow be better to heat the bed more uniform and allow the enzymes a chance to work at all temps on the way to mash out temps?


----------



## dent

Yeah, you want as fast flow as possible really.


----------



## Fourstar

not from what ive seen, if you're reading 64 deg constant egress of the HE wouldn't you expect the entire mash to be within 1-2 deg of your set temp? 

Once i hit my desired temp, any area i read the mash from (given its still from the top) it is within 1 deg of what the PID is reading.

Next mash i do i will start slow, get to my desired temp and then hold for 5 mins. Once stable i will then open it to flow a lot faster (not fully as i will drive a hole the size of Texas into my mash with the high flow march pump i have) and see if the PID begins cycling more frequently due to potential temperature differentials.

As you are doing a constant recirc, wouldn't you expect all enzymes in suspension to effectively reach the ramp temperature ranges all the way to mash out anyway?


----------



## dent

If the mash and recirculated wort temperatures are pretty much the same, then your flow is sufficient. 

If the flow becomes too restricted then you lose heat faster than it can be added by the recirculated wort - which can still only be around your set temperature, not any hotter. 

More flow is always good, so long as your manifold/grain bed will allow it - more flow will reduce the temperature difference between your mash and the output of the heat exchanger.

Sounds like your setup is flowing enough to be good.


----------



## Fourstar

dent said:


> If the mash and recirculated wort temperatures are pretty much the same, then your flow is sufficient.
> If the flow becomes too restricted then you lose heat faster than it can be added by the recirculated wort - which can still only be around your set temperature, not any hotter.
> More flow is always good, so long as your manifold/grain bed will allow it - more flow will reduce the temperature difference between your mash and the output of the heat exchanger.
> Sounds like your setup is flowing enough to be good.




I expected that would be the case.

Just on a quick calc, a full cycle of my entire mash-in liquor volume minus 1L/kg grain absorption is approx 5 minutes given my estimated flow rate. I guess that doesn't sound too bad. As long as the tun is able to hold the mash at that set temperature constant for 5 minutes (which it should be unless it was made out of ice) and all things being peachy (mash tun thermal efficiency, no channelling etc), is it safe to assume that the temperature differential throughout the mash should have hit equilibrium after 5 minutes of reaching a stable reading of the set temp on the PID?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Fourstar said:


> I expected that would be the case.
> 
> Just on a quick calc, a full cycle of my entire mash-in liquor volume minus 1L/kg grain absorption is approx 5 minutes given my estimated flow rate. I guess that doesn't sound too bad. As long as the tun is able to hold the mash at that set temperature constant for 5 minutes (which it should be unless it was made out of ice) and all things being peachy (mash tun thermal efficiency, no channelling etc), is it safe to assume that the temperature differential throughout the mash should have hit equilibrium after 5 minutes of reaching a stable reading of the set temp on the PID?



It doesn't take long to get a stable set temp on the pid dependent on the size of the herms unit and how much of a temp increase you are aiming for, as for a stable and uniform reading throughout the mash that again depends on numerous factors, flow rate, size and thickness of mash and also wort volume. You're raising temp on a far larger volume in the mash tun than you are in the HERMS so of course the mash tun will take longer to equalize.
Each different brew you do can and will have some slight variances in time to stabilize the mash temp so I think there is really no set time that you can rely on.My mash can take anything from 5-10 minutes to stabalize at the same temp as the herms depending on the variables listed above.


----------



## Truman42

Scored these from a hydraulics supplier today to fit to the top of my coil. SS compression fittings onto brass sleeves and elbows. Freakin awesome..


----------



## brettprevans

Truman said:


> Scored these from a hydraulics supplier today to fit to the top of my coil. SS compression fittings onto brass sleeves and elbows. Freakin awesome..
> 
> View attachment 53819


where? how much?


----------



## Truman42

Mine were from a hydraulics repairer we use and were free of charge because I give them a lot of work. He said the compression fittings were about $30 each.

You could probably get them through Enzed, Pirtek, one of those.


----------



## dicko

Truman said:


> Scored these from a hydraulics supplier today to fit to the top of my coil. SS compression fittings onto brass sleeves and elbows. Freakin awesome..
> 
> View attachment 53819



I would have thought that using brass fittings would negate the need to use a stainless coil inthe first place.
Relating to flushing with acid/caustic etc.
Not stirring, just a thought.

Cheers


----------



## QldKev

Truman said:


> Mine were from a hydraulics repairer we use and were free of charge because I give them a lot of work. He said the compression fittings were about $30 each.
> 
> You could probably get them through Enzed, Pirtek, one of those.



Are they 12mm or 1/2" BSP compression fittings. 

If they are 1/2" BSP, aaron posted a pic showing to replace the ferrule with 0-rings.


----------



## QldKev

dicko said:


> I would have thought that using brass fittings would negate the need to use a stainless coil inthe first place.
> Relating to flushing with acid/caustic etc.
> Not stirring, just a thought.
> 
> Cheers




I can only comment from my experience, but copper seems to go shitty (scientific term) quickly, while brass wont as quickly. So I'm happy for brass, but would rather keep the copper used to the minimum. As you mentioned you can't use caustic, but PBW is all I use. I wish I could afford all S/S gear.

Picked up my new compression fittings today, bling!


----------



## Truman42

> I would have thought that using brass fittings would negate the need to use a stainless coil inthe first place.
> Relating to flushing with acid/caustic etc.
> Not stirring, just a thought.
> 
> Cheers



You have a point but I have a mixture of brass and stainless fittings on all my taps. Unfortunately using stainless on all my fittings would cost me a fortune. 
But im swapping over to stainless one fitting at a time. 

He supplied me the brass fittings because he couldn't get SS but Ive got similar in SS that I will most probably use.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

QldKev said:


> I can only comment from my experience, but copper seems to go shitty (scientific term) quickly, while brass wont as quickly. So I'm happy for brass, but would rather keep the copper used to the minimum. As you mentioned you can't use caustic, but PBW is all I use. I wish I could afford all S/S gear.
> 
> Picked up my new compression fittings today, bling!
> 
> View attachment 53820


What is the olive size and how much each ?
Nev


----------



## AndrewQLD

Nev, 

Any word on the controller?

Andrew


----------



## QldKev

Gryphon Brewing said:


> What is the olive size and how much each ?
> Nev




1/2" BSP so will need the o-rings, and price free


----------



## brettprevans

hmm, think it will 2 x $0.80 bunnings stainless pipe clamps and heavy duty silicone.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

AndrewQLD said:


> Nev,
> 
> Any word on the controller?
> 
> Andrew


Yes, next Monday I roll out this ! With the relevant cords and sensor attached.
We have been playing with cosmetics. loosing the black stuff around the screen and going for a stainless surround. Bit of Bling !
Nev
Ed and the decals will be level :lol:


----------



## Maheel

where are those "hermit brew rig threads" not the coil thread ?

i cant find them ?

please help


----------



## benno1973

What's the ballpark price Nev? Or is that a closely guarded secret till Monday?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes, next Monday I roll out this ! With the relevant cords and sensor attached.
> We have been playing with cosmetics. loosing the black stuff around the screen and going for a stainless surround. Bit of Bling !
> Nev
> Ed and the decals will be level :lol:
> View attachment 53821



cool, I'll be looking forward to reading the specs ect.

Andrew


----------



## sponge

Maheel said:


> where are those "hermit brew rig threads" not the coil thread ?
> 
> i cant find them ?
> 
> please help



You mean from page one of this thread?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=63362

Tells you how to design the hermit HEX?

Not sure if this is what you're after?


Sponge


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Kaiser Soze said:


> What's the ballpark price Nev? Or is that a closely guarded secret till Monday?


A tad under $300 for the controller first " limited "release.
A few specs to wet the appetite :
12VDC outlet for HERM-IT pump.
240V 10A AC for HERM-IT HX.
SSR 10A
5 stage user defined Temp/Time adjustments.
PID , user adjustable built into software.
Our proprietary developed HERM-IT software on a Atmel chip.
Made in Australia  
Nev


----------



## AndrewQLD

Gryphon Brewing said:


> A tad under $300 for the controller first " limited "release.
> A few specs to wet the appetite :
> 12VDC outlet for HERM-IT pump.
> 240V 10A AC for HERM-IT HX.
> SSR 10A
> 5 stage user defined Temp/Time adjustments.
> PID , user adjustable built into software.
> Our proprietary developed HERM-IT software on a Atmel chip.
> Made in Australia
> Nev



Damn, I was hoping for 2 x 240v 10 amp outlets for the HX and for the HLT with another 240v for my march.

I don't want much hey <_< 
Sounds great otherwise.

Andrew


----------



## Truman42

QldKev said:


> Are they 12mm or 1/2" BSP compression fittings.
> 
> If they are 1/2" BSP, aaron posted a pic showing to replace the ferrule with 0-rings.



I think they are 12mm as thats what I told him I needed but haven't checked. Why do you need an o ring for 1/2 BSP? (Please dont tell me to re read this entire thread again to find Aarons post..Or at least tell me what page it is on.)


----------



## AndrewQLD

Truman said:


> I think they are 12mm as thats what I told him I needed but haven't checked. Why do you need an o ring for 1/2 BSP? (Please dont tell me to re read this entire thread again to find Aarons post..Or at least tell me what page it is on.)



They are 1/2" and I can confirm the O rings work a treat.
You need the O rings because the fittings are a bees dick too large.


----------



## brendo

AndrewQLD said:


> Damn, I was hoping for 2 x 240v 10 amp outlets for the HX and for the HLT with another 240v for my march.
> 
> I don't want much hey <_<
> Sounds great otherwise.
> 
> Andrew



+1 - an option to run a March pump would be good.


----------



## Fourstar

Just run the pumps from a separate point. You haven to run the pump 100% of the time and probably have this thing plugged into a powerboard anyway.


----------



## dent

brendo said:


> +1 - an option to run a March pump would be good.



Not sure why you would want a 240V march pump output since it is always on? The pump output on the HERMIT controller is to supply 12V "brown" pumps, so you don't need a plugpack or whatever.

edit: yeah, above.


----------



## hsb

You could run some lovely Xmas lights off the Pump Output, so you know your HERMIT is 'sparkling' inside.
I built a HERMS Controller but the pump is just straight through - on/off. I need to prime it, stop it occasionally, start it at other times outside of HERMS etc.
Post count +1. Global knowledge -2.


----------



## brendo

Fourstar said:


> Just run the pumps from a separate point. You haven to run the pump 100% of the time and probably have this thing plugged into a powerboard anyway.



yeah fair point... forgot about that...

*back in my box*


----------



## Fourstar

brendo said:


> yeah fair point... forgot about that...
> 
> *back in my box*



* nails it shut!


----------



## brettprevans

Maheel said:


> where are those "hermit brew rig threads" not the coil thread ?
> 
> i cant find them ?
> 
> please help



i worry abou you building a hx if you couldnt find the thread...



dent said:


> Not sure why you would want a 240V march pump output since it is always on? The pump output on the HERMIT controller is to supply 12V "brown" pumps, so you don't need a plugpack or whatever.


so that your controller controlls everything. not having seperate switches/boxes for multiple pieces of equipment




Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes, next Monday I roll out this ! With the relevant cords and sensor attached.
> We have been playing with cosmetics. loosing the black stuff around the screen and going for a stainless surround. Bit of Bling !
> View attachment 53821


sweet. now to quickly find $300


----------



## kymba

hope you are adding cheat codes...something like UP, UP, DOWN, LEFT, UP, RIGHT to get a 5% discount at nev's place?


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing

If anyone is having trouble finding those high temp O rings to seal their compression fittings, I have 100 coming that I could easily mail out to anyone that needs them, I wont be needing them all.

You will need 6 to properly fit you coil, and they work a treat.

PM me if interested, they are hard to find in Australia.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes, next Monday I roll out this ! With the relevant cords and sensor attached.
> We have been playing with cosmetics. loosing the black stuff around the screen and going for a stainless surround. Bit of Bling !
> Nev
> Ed and the decals will be level :lol:
> View attachment 53821



Nev
I would expect nothing less than an upgrade to the ss bling....... At least post it to me to stick on. 

Best brew gear I've ever bought .... 
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Nev
> I would expect nothing less than an upgrade to the ss bling....... At least post it to me to stick on.
> 
> Best brew gear I've ever bought ....
> Cheers
> BBB


What better than the curtains :lol: 
Nev


----------



## Truman42

King Brown Brewing said:


> If anyone is having trouble finding those high temp O rings to seal their compression fittings, I have 100 coming that I could easily mail out to anyone that needs them, I wont be needing them all.
> 
> You will need 6 to properly fit you coil, and they work a treat.
> 
> PM me if interested, they are hard to find in Australia.


I put the olive on the coil end and it seemed to be a decent fit. Just had a slight bit of play, less than .5 mm, but I thought it would seal once the nut was tightened up. 
Or am I way off here and does the olive need to be tight on the sleeve? Ive never played with compression fittings before.


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing

Well I had the SS 1/2 inch compressions and as stated before, they were a bees dick not tight enough.

The O-Rings combines with the small half of the olive works a treat, in what I like to call the 'Argon' method.

I was using corny keg post o-rings but I figured they would degrade fairly quickly at the high temps that I am running my herms at so I got some from overseas.

I couldnt find them anywhere in australia (the places i looked anyway).


----------



## iralosavic

Plumbing sealant would solve the .5mm issue. If you do it right, it should keep the olive glued to the coil and still allow removal of fittings for cleaning. The sealant can be removed too.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

King Brown Brewing said:


> Well I had the SS 1/2 inch compressions and as stated before, they were a bees dick not tight enough.
> 
> The O-Rings combines with the small half of the olive works a treat, in what I like to call the 'Argon' method.
> 
> I was using corny keg post o-rings but I figured they would degrade fairly quickly at the high temps that I am running my herms at so I got some from overseas.
> 
> I couldnt find them anywhere in australia (the places i looked anyway).


Ahh the "Argon" method, will that stop my girlfriend getting pregnant ?
Or is it just good for the HERM-IT B) 
I like the O ring idea.
Nev


----------



## Truman42

Ok. Can someone please explain to me how to do the argon method? Do you replace the olive with 3 O rings or use them with the olive??


----------



## Maheel

citymorgue2 said:


> i worry abou you building a hx if you couldnt find the thread...




lol i worry about me building a HX, wait to you see my little vid i have uploaded :huh: 
thanks for your concerns  

i meant the threads for the brumiser type builds i thought someone had one with the a hermit coil already in operation in a seperate thread 
anyway i will go back through and find them...


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> Ok. Can someone please explain to me how to do the argon method? Do you replace the olive with 3 O rings or use them with the olive??


I believe as I have not tried the Argon method that the O rings are used on the pointy side of the olive and actually take up the excess space. 
Please correct me if I am wrong but it makes sense.
Nev


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing

scroll back a couple of pages, he explained it perfectly with photos.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Gryphon Brewing said:


> What better than the curtains :lol:
> Nev



Nice try - I work with deflection all the time - where is my ss plate ....


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Nice try - I work with deflection all the time - where is my ss plate ....


Off to wash my hair, lalalalalalal cant hear you.  
Nev


----------



## AndrewQLD

Fourstar said:


> Just run the pumps from a separate point. You haven to run the pump 100% of the time and probably have this thing plugged into a powerboard anyway.






citymorgue2 said:


> so that your controller controlls everything. not having seperate switches/boxes for multiple pieces of equipment



As CM2 pointed out, I don't want to have to go to my power point to turn on/off my pump, I want the thing wired to my control box next to all my other switches.
That's how I have my controller set up now and I can switch the pump whenever i want, and while it does run pretty much constantly I still turn it on and off at various times throughout the brew day.

I did say I don't want much didn't I ?


----------



## kelbygreen

I installed a rocker switch on my stand that way I can switch it on and off when needed


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Or just buy a switched power board with RTC, now that's sensible.
I nearly bought one the other day from Bunnings.
Nev


----------



## Truman42

King Brown Brewing said:


> scroll back a couple of pages, he explained it perfectly with photos.


Mate. I scrolled through the entire thread twice and there's only two posts by Argon and neither of them about using O rings. Didnt see any photos on it either. 
I'm on my iPhone so maybe I missed it. Or I'm a dickhead.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> Mate. I scrolled through the entire thread twice and there's only two posts by Argon and neither of them about using O rings. Didnt see any photos on it either.
> I'm on my iPhone so maybe I missed it. Or I'm a dickhead.


I coudnt find it either. Or we are both ..................
Nev


----------



## Dazza88

Ss coil thread perhaps?


----------



## matho

here


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

matho said:


> here


Thanks I dont know how I missed that.
Nev


----------



## kelbygreen

different thread that thread is Stainless Herms Coil Released, This thread Hermit Coil Heat Exchange


----------



## brettprevans

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Or just buy a switched power board with RTC, now that's sensible.
> I nearly bought one the other day from Bunnings.
> Nev


Yeah did that tge other week. Great isnt it. 
Its certainly isnt a deal breaker on the controller. Istill want one, so dibs on one nev.


----------



## Truman42

Thanks Matho. I was looking in this thread. At least we're not both dickheads Nev.


----------



## Endo

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Or just buy a switched power board with RTC, now that's sensible.
> I nearly bought one the other day from Bunnings.
> Nev



The ones from Jaycar are really good:

http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MS...mp;form=KEYWORD

I've had the arlec ones which are crap. This thing doesnt require pairing after blackouts either.. At least it hasn't yet.


----------



## Maheel

what sort of flow rate are you getting through the coil using the hermit brown pump ?

my ghetto setup is doing about 5L a min 

whats considered enough flow ?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Maheel said:


> what sort of flow rate are you getting through the coil using the hermit brown pump ?
> 
> my ghetto setup is doing about 5L a min
> 
> whats considered enough flow ?



A good flow rate would be as fast as you can recirculate without compacting the grain bed and that depends on your mash tun and false bottom design. 5L a minute sounds pretty good to me.

Andrew


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

AndrewQLD said:


> A good flow rate would be as fast as you can recirculate without compacting the grain bed and that depends on your mash tun and false bottom design. 5L a minute sounds pretty good to me.
> 
> Andrew


Sounds good to me as well.
Nev


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> Ok. Can someone please explain to me how to do the argon method?




1st on a SEARCH


----------



## QldKev

iamozziyob said:


> 1st on a SEARCH




not what he was after  

o-ring method


----------



## AndrewQLD

QldKev said:


> not what he was after
> 
> o-ring method



Massive fail there Kev :lol: 

This might be better Argon o-ring method


----------



## Truman42

AndrewQLD said:


> Massive fail there Kev :lol:
> 
> This might be better Argon o-ring method



Yes that was it..And I would have probably found it if I was looking in the correct thread...


----------



## QldKev

bitches!  


:lol:


----------



## Acasta

Could someone take a quick pic of the kettle that would fit the coil? I went to Kmart and the $9 there were small on the inside and had a detachable base/dock.
I may be looking at the wrong one.

Thanks


----------



## sponge

Look for the corded kettles as opposed to the cordless.

I think there's a couple of pictures floating around of one of the kettle with the coil in it though


Sponge


----------



## brettprevans

the guide tells you exactly what kettle to buy and from where. go to woolies. corded kettle. $14. done

using a cordless is more mucking around.


----------



## Fourstar

Acasta said:


> Could someone take a quick pic of the kettle that would fit the coil? I went to Kmart and the $9 there were small on the inside and had a detachable base/dock.
> I may be looking at the wrong one.
> 
> Thanks



That will fit your coil (at least mine fits in one).

i;d also shave the spout facing plastic stopper off the inside that's used for the filter so its not so snug.

I've currently got my old kettle in use however im planning on migrating across to one of these. a perfectly priced option IMO. Slap some silicone or plastic cement onto the base and glue it there permanently.


----------



## mxd

Acasta said:


> Could someone take a quick pic of the kettle that would fit the coil? I went to Kmart and the $9 there were small on the inside and had a detachable base/dock.
> I may be looking at the wrong one.
> 
> Thanks



I'm using (well migrating to) the $8.00 Big W cordless one.


----------



## Acasta

Thanks guys! I'll get a coil first and then take it in store and see that I can do there. I'm pretty rough with DIY, so I'm thinking either straight in the kettle. Maybe down the track fancy it up a bit.
My brewery is far from fancy anyway! haha


----------



## Cortez The Killer

Here's mine 

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=894830

It is an Abode cordless one from BigW 

Cheers


----------



## MastersBrewery

cortez, I think the brilliant think about yours if not glued down would be if it was ever knocked over, you only spill a bit of water, you won't blow the element, of course you might trip thr rcd as well but no permanent loss there.


----------



## NickB

Yep, I have used the elements from the 'Abode' brand from BigW. I got mine on special one day for $4.99, so grabbed a few 

Cheers


----------



## bradsbrew

Here is a pic of mine its an abode $7.50 I think.

Cheers


----------



## NickB

Amazing you get the water to stay in on that angle mate!


h34r:


Cheers


----------



## Acasta

bradsbrew said:


> Here is a pic of mine its an abode $7.50 I think.
> 
> Cheers



Where about its your temp probe?
Thanks


----------



## kelbygreen

in his bum


----------



## mxd

Acasta said:


> Where about its your temp probe?
> Thanks



I assume/hope at the end of the copper pipe


----------



## Acasta

Would that adjust the mash according to his internal body temperature? I hear that's a big mistake and can cause it to overshoot and lead to problems.

End of the copper pipe. Genius.

Also, what are people using to control their elements? Going the whole controller with PIDs ect, or would a simple stc-1000 work well enough?


----------



## Fourstar

Done the research for you.  

hardware you need you need if you want to go the PID route. Less 50 bucks. Add on some wiring, jiffy box, terminals. pushing $55-60. 

k type thermocouple
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/K-Type-Thermocu...=item231c1f16be
PID
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-PID-Tem...=item19d0063c01
SSR
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SSR25A-SOLID-ST...=item519b0ba368

STC route with the jiffy box, wiring and terminals. $35-40~
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-purpose-Tem...=item3a70aaf9d5

STC is looking like its 20 bucks cheaper although i don't know how good the control of temp is. You can get a PID control period down to 1/2 sec compared with 1 min 'compressor delay' on the STC. Shouldn't be too mush of and issue i would think.

One thing i do know, after calibrating and dialling in the PID, I'm glad i went with it. It never overshoots and holds it within 1 deg for the length of the mash once stable.


----------



## iralosavic

A PID uses calculus that factors in temp rise/fall speeds to allow far greater accuracy and prevent overshooting targets etc. It is a superior choice, but an stc1000 is adequate and acceptable for most and even I was able to wire one up, so the choice is easy if you have the skill to wire and program a PID and equally as easy if you don't.


----------



## Acasta

Thanks Fourstar. I'm surprised it comes out that cheap. Last time I did a look up on this I was in the hundreds for the parts alone of the PID route.
I may start with a spare STC-1000 as I have one on my fridge and HLT, and move to PID in the future.

Cheers


----------



## iralosavic

Hey fourstar, would you mind showing a photo of how you mounted the probe? 8cm sounds like too long to place it in a T piece at the outlet. Cheers


----------



## Truman42

Fourstar said:


> Done the research for you.
> 
> hardware you need you need if you want to go the PID route. Less 50 bucks. Add on some wiring, jiffy box, terminals. pushing $55-60.
> 
> k type thermocouple
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/K-Type-Thermocu...=item231c1f16be
> PID
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-PID-Tem...=item19d0063c01
> SSR
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SSR25A-SOLID-ST...=item519b0ba368
> 
> STC route with the jiffy box, wiring and terminals. $35-40~
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-purpose-Tem...=item3a70aaf9d5
> 
> STC is looking like its 20 bucks cheaper although i don't know how good the control of temp is. You can get a PID control period down to 1/2 sec compared with 1 min 'compressor delay' on the STC. Shouldn't be too mush of and issue i would think.
> 
> One thing i do know, after calibrating and dialling in the PID, I'm glad i went with it. It never overshoots and holds it within 1 deg for the length of the mash once stable.



Thanks or that info mate. Im considering a PID to (Currently have an STC ) but wasnt sure what exactly to buy.


----------



## bradsbrew

Acasta said:


> Where about its your temp probe?
> Thanks


Yes it is where the liquid retrns to the top of the mash tun. Will take a pic this arvo.



Cheers


----------



## mxd

iralosavic said:


> Hey fourstar, would you mind showing a photo of how you mounted the probe? 8cm sounds like too long to place it in a T piece at the outlet. Cheers




heres  mine, I have this probe


----------



## dent

Fourstar said:


> k type thermocouple
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/K-Type-Thermocu...=item231c1f16be


I'm really not impressed with using K thermocouples for brewing purposes - the temperature reading can vary (become wildly inaccurate) too much depending on the temperature of the PID unit itself (with these cheapo chinese ones). Also you can't simply extend the wires if the probe is too short, as the junction between your wires and the thermocouple wires tend to make another thermocouple.

I'd go with PT100 probes if possible. You'd have to get a controller that supports them.

You can get a nice stainless probe with threaded attachment cheaply enough.


----------



## mxd

Fourstar said:


> Done the research for you.
> 
> hardware you need you need if you want to go the PID route. Less 50 bucks. Add on some wiring, jiffy box, terminals. pushing $55-60.
> 
> k type thermocouple
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/K-Type-Thermocu...=item231c1f16be
> PID
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-PID-Tem...=item19d0063c01
> SSR
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SSR25A-SOLID-ST...=item519b0ba368
> 
> STC route with the jiffy box, wiring and terminals. $35-40~
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-purpose-Tem...=item3a70aaf9d5
> 
> STC is looking like its 20 bucks cheaper although i don't know how good the control of temp is. You can get a PID control period down to 1/2 sec compared with 1 min 'compressor delay' on the STC. Shouldn't be too mush of and issue i would think.
> 
> One thing i do know, after calibrating and dialling in the PID, I'm glad i went with it. It never overshoots and holds it within 1 deg for the length of the mash once stable.




you may want to put a heat sink on the SSR


----------



## Fourstar

iralosavic said:


> A PID uses calculus that factors in temp rise/fall speeds to allow far greater accuracy and prevent overshooting targets etc. It is a superior choice, but an stc1000 is adequate and acceptable for most and even I was able to wire one up, so the choice is easy if you have the skill to wire and program a PID and equally as easy if you don't.


"autotune makes things really easy". 



iralosavic said:


> Hey fourstar, would you mind showing a photo of how you mounted the probe? 8cm sounds like too long to place it in a T piece at the outlet. Cheers


I don't have mine set-up into a fitting just yet (currently jammed into the end of the silicone return to the mash) but the plan is to get a compression fitting on the outlet of the hermit, Stainless T piece for the probe (thermowell maybe) and a nipple for the outlet silicone to MLT/kettle.



dent said:


> I'm really not impressed with using K thermocouples for brewing purposes - the temperature reading can vary (become wildly inaccurate) too much depending on the temperature of the PID unit itself (with these cheapo chinese ones). Also you can't simply extend the wires if the probe is too short, as the junction between your wires and the thermocouple wires tend to make another thermocouple.
> 
> I'd go with PT100 probes if possible. You'd have to get a controller that supports them.
> 
> You can get a nice stainless probe with threaded attachment cheaply enough.



Interesting, thanks for the advice. Mine actually supports PT100 so might go down the route of one of these connected in-line as mentioned above.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V...;category=67003

I also have a spare PID which i purchased some time ago and was refunded because they sent me the relay only model (5A). I can use the K-type on that one. It never hurts to have a few spare thermocouples lying around in the event of catastrophic failure!


----------



## AndrewQLD

Truman said:


> I just went to a place called Univer off Greens road in Dandenong and scored myself a push on fitting with 1/2 " BSP to screw onto my T for my probe.
> 
> On the wall they had a chart and do a whole range of push on fittings.
> 
> UNIVER
> 
> Mine was only $7.60 but I paid cash and he just charged me $5.00.



Are they made for stainless tubing or for plastic hoses? QldKev tried using push on fittings and they weren't too successful as they kept falling off.


----------



## Truman42

AndrewQLD said:


> Are they made for stainless tubing or for plastic hoses? QldKev tried using push on fittings and they weren't too successful as they kept falling off.




I think they are for plastic hose. But I meant to replace JG fittings on your beer lines. I dont keg so dont know much about it all, but was just throwing it out there in case anyone was interested.


----------



## Truman42

And.... I meant more so for the temp probe and not for the coil itself.

Just sharing some ideas for the greater good..


----------



## QldKev

Truman said:


> And.... I meant more so for the temp probe and not for the coil itself.
> 
> Just sharing some ideas for the greater good..
> 
> View attachment 53924



Nice neat way to get the temp probe in there.

QldKev


----------



## AndrewQLD

Truman said:


> And.... I meant more so for the temp probe and not for the coil itself.
> 
> Just sharing some ideas for the greater good..
> 
> View attachment 53924



Cool, I misunderstood the usage, looks like a good idea.


----------



## Fourstar

so whats the plan? jam the temp probe into the bev line?


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing

Anyone who needs a couple of those high temp silicone seals to attach their herms to the compression fittings pm me, I have a few left....


----------



## Parks

I don't think that bev line will handle high temp though


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

King Brown Brewing said:


> Anyone who needs a couple of those high temp silicone seals to attach their herms to the compression fittings pm me, I have a few left....


Yes I would like some to test.
Nev


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing

coming your way nev


----------



## Yob

noob question but wont the hottest point be just out of the exchanger? Isnt that the best place for it?

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Truman42

Parks said:


> I don't think that bev line will handle high temp though



Its not bev line its nylon tube. Blackwoods sell it.


----------



## QldKev

iamozziyob said:


> noob question but wont the hottest point be just out of the exchanger? Isnt that the best place for it?
> 
> :icon_cheers:




This way using some temporary fittings, but should give you an idea of what is being setup

The black tube from the top houses the line to the temp probe,
The probe is pushed all the way through the T into the pickup


----------



## Yob

QldKev said:


> This way using some temporary fittings, but should give you an idea of what is being setup
> 
> The black tube from the top houses the line to the temp probe,
> The probe is pushed all the way through the T into the pickup
> 
> View attachment 54093



Thanks Kev.. Ive currently got a small copper t set up just on the outlet side I think I can make work... bit more tinkering

:icon_cheers:


----------



## QldKev

iamozziyob said:


> Thanks Kev.. Ive currently got a small copper t set up just on the outlet side I think I can make work... bit more tinkering
> 
> :icon_cheers:



That fitting Truman got for the outer skin looks great, a lot neater than the compression fitting I am using. 

The temp probe wire is just siliconed into the the outer hose (black in my case, Truman has clear)


QldKev


----------



## Truman42

QldKev said:


> That fitting Truman got for the outer skin looks great, a lot neater than the compression fitting I am using.
> 
> The temp probe wire is just siliconed into the the outer hose (black in my case, Truman has clear)
> 
> 
> QldKev



You can get them from Univer Yob for around $8 inc GST..


----------



## Muscovy_333

Truman said:


> You can get them from Univer Yob for around $8 inc GST..




He he!


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> You can get them from Univer Yob for around $8 inc GST..



Got a link to their website?


----------



## Truman42

iamozziyob said:


> Got a link to their website?



Yeh mate here you go. :icon_cheers: 

UNIVER


----------



## Truman42

I did a wet test run of my herms the other day and noticed with my temp probe positioned in my return line into the mash tun My temp fell about .6 C either side of 65C.

So the hex would switch of at 65C and the temp would climb to about 65.6C before falling again. the hex would switch back on at 65C and the temp would drop to around 64.5C before the temp started to climb again.

Is this considered an acceptable temperature variation? Is anyone getting better than this?


----------



## QldKev

Truman said:


> I did a wet test run of my herms the other day and noticed with my temp probe positioned in my return line into the mash tun My temp fell about .6 C either side of 65C.
> 
> So the hex would switch of at 65C and the temp would climb to about 65.6C before falling again. the hex would switch back on at 65C and the temp would drop to around 64.5C before the temp started to climb again.
> 
> Is this considered an acceptable temperature variation? Is anyone getting better than this?



I think 1 degree overall variation is acceptable. You could check the controllers settings, ie on a STC-1000 ensure F2 is set to 0.3 (the min), otherwise if using a PID it should learn and decrease this gap further. Eventually I think I will get a PID with programmable steps to help ensure I don't miss step intervals. The main thing is you will have this same given amount of variation every brew, so after sampling the beers you can commence to tweak brew numbers to hopefully perfect the recipe on your system for your taste buds. :icon_cheers: 


QldKev


----------



## Truman42

QldKev said:


> I think 1 degree overall variation is acceptable. You could check the controllers settings, ie on a STC-1000 ensure F2 is set to 0.3 (the min), otherwise if using a PID it should learn and decrease this gap further. Eventually I think I will get a PID with programmable steps to help ensure I don't miss step intervals. The main thing is you will have this same given amount of variation every brew, so after sampling the beers you can commence to tweak brew numbers to hopefully perfect the recipe on your system for your taste buds. :icon_cheers:
> 
> 
> QldKev



Im using an STC1000 and have F2 set to .3. Im going to switch to a PID eventually too as it seems the way to go.


----------



## stux

QldKev said:


> That fitting Truman got for the outer skin looks great, a lot neater than the compression fitting I am using.
> 
> The temp probe wire is just siliconed into the the outer hose (black in my case, Truman has clear)
> 
> 
> QldKev



What sort of silicons are you guys using for this? Looking at bunnings the other day most don't appear to be foodgrade?


----------



## Truman42

Stux said:


> What sort of silicons are you guys using for this? Looking at bunnings the other day most don't appear to be foodgrade?



Good question?? Kev??? I havent built mine yet. Forgot to pay for my temp sensor on ebay. Only checked today as it should have been here by now.


----------



## QldKev

Stux said:


> What sort of silicons are you guys using for this? Looking at bunnings the other day most don't appear to be foodgrade?



Don't ask me, the one I used say's it is o2 sensor safe h34r: 

I know another one up here is back filled using loctite  

I wouldn't be super concerned as it is only a minute amount that would be in contact with the wort, it wouldn't be much over 2mm2 I think you would be safe with any kitchen grade silicone from Bunnings. 


QldKev


----------



## stux

QldKev said:


> Don't ask me, the one I used say's it is o2 sensor safe h34r:
> 
> I know another one up here is back filled using loctite
> 
> I wouldn't be super concerned as it is only a minute amount that would be in contact with the wort, it wouldn't be much over 2mm2 I think you would be safe with any kitchen grade silicone from Bunnings.
> 
> 
> QldKev



Some loctites are food grade. Bathroom silicons are not food grade. Many kitchen ones are okay for incidental food contact, many are not suitable for immersion.

The one I was looking at is the Selley's "glass" one which I think is food grade as its suitable for aquarium use


----------



## dent

What they say is that Selleys roof and gutter silicone is food grade since people use the runoff for their potable water tanks. Seem to remember someone giving the manufacturer a call ages ago.


----------



## Parks

dent said:


> What they say is that Selleys roof and gutter silicone is food grade since people use the runoff for their potable water tanks. Seem to remember someone giving the manufacturer a call ages ago.


Is the bat shit on my roof also food grade?

:lol:


----------



## QldKev

Probably better than this stuff I used
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotiv...asket_Maker.htm 

It's been many years since I've worked in my Sheet Metal trade, but we used to just use the same roof and gutter silicone that we used on gutters when we worked on s/s kitchens.


QldKev


----------



## stux

And the "Glass" stuff

"Will not adhere to concrete, cement products, zinc or copper containing metals, marble, limestone or lead."


----------



## QldKev

Stux said:


> And the "Glass" stuff
> 
> "Will not adhere to concrete, cement products, zinc or copper containing metals, marble, limestone or lead."



That's ok, cause we only need it to adhere to the temp probe cable inside a nylon tube. 

QldKev


----------



## TidalPete

Stux said:


> What sort of silicons are you guys using for this? Looking at bunnings the other day most don't appear to be foodgrade?



You should be able to get Selleys Silicone 401 (-60 deg c to +205 deg c) at Bunnings. I priced the only food-grade Loctite I know of the other day (Loctite 2046). Too dear for me at $47.00 a pop.  
What other food-grade Loctites are there?

TP


----------



## brettprevans

go getto and get some stainless steel wire and just wrap the bugger on?


----------



## Feldon

TidalPete said:


> You should be able to get Selleys Silicone 401 (-60 deg c to +205 deg c) at Bunnings. I priced the only food-grade Loctite I know of the other day (Loctite 2046). Too dear for me at $47.00 a pop.
> What other food-grade Loctites are there?
> 
> TP




I think Loctite 2046 is the only FDA compliant version, according to their website ( http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/food-be...e-2046-8063.htm )


----------



## Truman42

Feldon said:


> I think Loctite 2046 is the only FDA compliant version, according to their website ( http://www.henkelna.com/industrial/food-be...e-2046-8063.htm )
> 
> View attachment 54099



How will loctite work though? Its not a silicone its a thread locker. Were putting the probe through the push on or compression fitting and up through some nylon tube then using silicone to seal up the inside of the tube.

Or are you talking about using the locite to seal the compression fitting where it screws onto the T piece??


----------



## stux

The one I was thinking of is Loctite 577, which I was recommended for keg systems.... and is recommended for potable water systems

Will bond across a 0.25mm gap to 25% strength... but there are probably other options... look for potable water applicability 

But I wasn't chasing a loctite solution, but rather a silicon one.



> KASON SIL Kason Food Grade Silicone
> Food grade silicone. Colour: Aluminium Grey, suitable for use with stainless steel. High temperature formula heat resistant to 200C (400F). Premium grade. Air cures overnight. Tack-free in 15 minutes. Uses: Waterproof adhesive bonds better than generic sealants. Won't peel. Tube volume: 304ml


http://www.crh.com.au/products/fabrication...grade-silicone/



> SikaLastomer-511
> SikaLastomer 511 is a high solids, non hardening, non-drying, butyl mastic sealant designed for sealing roof and wall panels and concealed endlaps. It has excellent adhesion to various substrates and is food grade approved


----------



## zxhoon

would this suit?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry897682


----------



## hsb

These guys (US) sell SS Compression Fittings for US $13, no idea if they fit the HERM-IT probes (they are 1/4" for the probe)
http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/produc...on-fitting.html

I also have a (threaded MPT) 2" Thermowell left over from my (HERMS) build, like this:




$15 and free postage for anyone that wants it. 

You can still put silicon on them if you want, though it wouldn't serve any purpose. :icon_cheers:


----------



## The Balding Bunyip

PM sent.... :icon_cheers: 





hsb said:


> These guys (US) sell SS Compression Fittings for US $13, no idea if they fit the HERM-IT probes (they are 1/4" for the probe)
> http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/produc...on-fitting.html
> 
> I also have a (threaded MPT) 2" Thermowell left over from my (HERMS) build, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $15 and free postage for anyone that wants it.
> 
> You can still put silicon on them if you want, though it wouldn't serve any purpose. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

hsb said:


> These guys (US) sell SS Compression Fittings for US $13, no idea if they fit the HERM-IT probes (they are 1/4" for the probe)
> http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/produc...on-fitting.html
> 
> I also have a (threaded MPT) 2" Thermowell left over from my (HERMS) build, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $15 and free postage for anyone that wants it.
> 
> You can still put silicon on them if you want, though it wouldn't serve any purpose. :icon_cheers:


The SS probe on our HERM-IT brewery controller is 6mm dia and 32 mm long.
Nev


----------



## Truman42

Heres my finished Hex coil with the temp probe neatly fitted into the push in fitting.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Nice neat job and I like the yellow.
Tried it out yet ?
Nev


----------



## Truman42

Not with that probe but I have done a brew with it using my probe in the sparge arm I made. Worked really well. Kept temps to within a degree either way.


----------



## Truman42

Heres a trap for young players....(Or maybe just dickheads like me..  )

I had all sorts of problems trying to get air out of my lines and getting my pump to push fluid through the system. I narrowed it down to the fact that my inlet into the hex coil was connected the wrong way around. So the inlet was connected to the wound coil section and coming back up through the middle.
This meant the pump was trying to push air in front of the fluid down through the coils. 
When I swapped it over so the inlet was connected to the middle pipe the air was pushed straight down to the botom of the coil and then naturally the air rose up through the coil and the mash return line to the top.

I didnt consider this when first connecting it all up but it certainly made a diference.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Truman said:


> Heres a trap for young players....(Or maybe just dickheads like me..  )
> 
> I had all sorts of problems trying to get air out of my lines and getting my pump to push fluid through the system. I narrowed it down to the fact that my inlet into the hex coil was connected the wrong way around. So the inlet was connected to the wound coil section and coming back up through the middle.
> This meant the pump was trying to push air in front of the fluid down through the coils.
> When I swapped it over so the inlet was connected to the middle pipe the air was pushed straight down to the botom of the coil and then naturally the air rose up through the coil and the mash return line to the top.
> 
> I didnt consider this when first connecting it all up but it certainly made a diference.



Good tip, My HERMS is set up like your original troublesome set up. I only have small issues priming my pump (works 9 times out of 10 and only requires a little jiggle to get it started), but i would love it it self prime every time!!


----------



## Truman42

I originally had my pump before the hex coil at the very bottom. So the flow path was from MLT through pump, through hex coil and to mlt return line.

Now my pump is higher up so the flow path is from MLT through hex, through pump, which is higher than the hex, then to MLT return. If I place my MLT return line into a bucket on the ground and open the MLT tap the wort flows freely into the bucket pushing all the air out. I switch on the pump and raise the bucket and line to the mlt and it flows nicely.

BTW: How did the party go Dave? Did you serve up red cordial in your mash tun..


----------



## Muscovy_333

BTW: How did the party go Dave? Did you serve up red cordial in your mash tun..  
[/quote]


Flouro green icing on the horse cake. party pies, sausage roles....you name it..!
We partied like all 2 year olds do!

I should have force carbed some red cordial..damn.


----------



## Truman42

Muscovy said:


> BTW: How did the party go Dave? Did you serve up red cordial in your mash tun..
> 
> 
> 
> Flouro green icing on the horse cake. party pies, sausage roles....you name it..!
> We partied like all 2 year olds do!
> 
> I should have force carbed some red cordial..damn.




Ha Ha Yeh well the wife commented on how "well stocked" your trolley was with party goods.


----------



## Wolfy

Truman said:


> Ha Ha Yeh well the wife commented on how "well stocked" your trolley was with party goods.


Except it wasn't really the 'trolley' she was talking about. h34r:


----------



## Muscovy_333

Wolfy said:


> Except it wasn't really the 'trolley' she was talking about. h34r:



 Ummm!

"It" has been referred to as well stocked a couple of times for sure.


----------



## Truman42

Wolfy said:


> Except it wasn't really the 'trolley' she was talking about. h34r:



 Umm.... I was with her, I saw it too. Definitely the trolley she was talking about.....I hope...


----------



## damunch

This has probably been answered some where else but searching for lubrication silicone stuck and you get all sorts of weird and wonderful answers - anyway my tubes gets stuck on the coil and hose tails, any solutions other than quick disconnects?


----------



## Truman42

damunch said:


> This has probably been answered some where else but searching for lubrication silicone stuck and you get all sorts of weird and wonderful answers - anyway my tubes gets stuck on the coil and hose tails, any solutions other than quick disconnects?




I just twist mine then pull.

twist and pull, twist and pull...


----------



## philski

Does anyone know which woolworths stock the 1.7L corded kettles still??? 

I've tried 5 different ones and they either don't have them or they are not in stock! ARGH!


----------



## philski

In Melbourne that is!!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

philski said:


> In Melbourne that is!!


If all fails get the kmart $9.00 jobbie and pull a power cord off your PC , they are the same thing .
nev


----------



## iralosavic

What about bigW? Abode 1.7L corded kettle <$9...


----------



## philski

iralosavic said:


> What about bigW? Abode 1.7L corded kettle <$9...



Nice one cheers I'll try bigw otherwise I'll go the computer cord option, I have a few if those lying around.


----------



## philski

Finally found one @ the Ashburton woolies. $14. Now for the coil, parts then build... looking forward to it.


----------



## philski

Does anyone know if you can get away with using a 38mm hole saw rather than a 40mm?? It looks like it may fit (maybe a bit tight!) but I'm not keen on trying it just yet....


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

philski said:


> Does anyone know if you can get away with using a 38mm hole saw rather than a 40mm?? It looks like it may fit (maybe a bit tight!) but I'm not keen on trying it just yet....


Sorry I cant answer that as I have never tried but you could be the first.  
Nev


----------



## Batz

philski said:


> Does anyone know if you can get away with using a 38mm hole saw rather than a 40mm?? It looks like it may fit (maybe a bit tight!) but I'm not keen on trying it just yet....




Wack a hole in the kettle you pulled the element out of and try it.


----------



## philski

Batz said:


> Wack a hole in the kettle you pulled the element out of and try it.



yep great idea. should have thought of that earlier!


----------



## Acasta

Thats the size I used going into my keggle. I think due to the ring/seal thing you can get away with a touch bigger, but 38mm is the tightest I could get it to.


----------



## philski

OK, so I can confirm that the 38mm hole saw does in fact work. She's a bit tight (so to speak) but you can get it in there....

I drilled the hole and gave it a light file to smooth it off and take a little extra off. The surface was nice and flat, the element is in and it's all siliconed up. Just waiting for the silicone to cure before i fill er up with water. Hopefully it doesn't leak....


----------



## philski

Just to follow up for anyone interested, I tested out the HERMIT today. Works a treat. So I can confirm a 38mm hole saw is all good!

Great little design Nev. It even works in my cooler mash tun with a slotted PVC manifold, the flows are a bit slow but it still does what it's supposed to do. Can't wait to test it out when I get my new SS false bottom and 98L pot as a mash tun.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

philski said:


> Just to follow up for anyone interested, I tested out the HERMIT today. Works a treat. So I can confirm a 38mm hole saw is all good!
> 
> Great little design Nev. It even works in my cooler mash tun with a slotted PVC manifold, the flows are a bit slow but it still does what it's supposed to do. Can't wait to test it out when I get my new SS false bottom and 98L pot as a mash tun.


Keep us informed. The real design trick is to get the false bottom to flow well.
This makes getting to temps quicker and achieves better efficiencies. If you have to slow down its better than a stuck sparge.
Nev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

sama said:


> with these herms setups,i notice theres a temp varaition from actual mash to hx output(where most probes seem to be). Does that meen your not actually getting a sugar profile of say a 67c mash.?? like,if you soak a cup of grain in water,and that mash is at 65c ,if you collect just wort,heat it to 67c,does the profile change? or does the actual cracked grain need to be infused at 67c to obtain a "medium body profile" for instance?? do you get what i meen lol?? sort of like is the worts prfile changing when i mash out or am i just stopping the grain from any further conversion.. like,.so confusing,like (spoken like a 15 year old girl)


With the proper controller you will achieve the set mash temps but this will take an amount of time, this is due to the controller set not to over shooting the Max temps.
If you need more info contact me thru my site and I will be happy to answer your details.
Nev


----------



## Stubbie

I'd wanted to build a HERMS Hx for quite some time and in particular been mulling over how to build one so as to be as efficient as possible. I wanted a smaller rather than larger volume combined with an element of adequate power so as to minimise heating lag and end up with a more responsive Hx. Even though not ideal from a heat conductivity standpoint, I also wanted a SS coil to allow the use of caustic cleaners to my heart's content. So when I stumbled up on the HERMIT coil, the fact that it was SS and the popular PVC build required only a 2 - 3 litre capacity, I thought it looked like a winner. There was a momentary reservation regarding the 3m length of piping, but obviously everyone else was finding it no such handicap in practical terms.

The last remaining decision was whether to use the suggested 1850W kettle element or whether to upgrade to a more powerful element (I'd been considering a 2400W or better for my pre-HERMIT ideas on a Hx). In the end, I built one of these................a twin engine model, just for fun.



For a couple of years I'd perserverred with a totally inadequate 1800W 20L urn as a HLT. It annoyed me no end (understatement) whenever I was caught out with not enough water at the appropriate temp and it taught me a valuable lesson. I vowed that from then on any system upgrade would have more rather than less power. So that's why a 3700W Hx. And besides, I thought it would be interesting to carry out a comparison with either one or two elements running. Not sure I'll bother, though. Ran a water test and PID auto-tune a couple of nights ago and achieved better than 2.5 deg/min ramps. Quite impressive, I thought, and so much for any reservations regarding a 3m coil length.

Maiden HERMS brew coming this wk end, but so far I reckon my new HERMIT Hx is a ripper.


----------



## QldKev

Stubbie said:


> I'd wanted to build a HERMS Hx for quite some time and in particular been mulling over how to build one so as to be as efficient as possible. I wanted a smaller rather than larger volume combined with an element of adequate power so as to minimise heating lag and end up with a more responsive Hx. Even though not ideal from a heat conductivity standpoint, I also wanted a SS coil to allow the use of caustic cleaners to my heart's content. So when I stumbled up on the HERMIT coil, the fact that it was SS and the popular PVC build required only a 2 - 3 litre capacity, I thought it looked like a winner. There was a momentary reservation regarding the 3m length of piping, but obviously everyone else was finding it no such handicap in practical terms.
> 
> The last remaining decision was whether to use the suggested 1850W kettle element or whether to upgrade to a more powerful element (I'd been considering a 2400W or better for my pre-HERMIT ideas on a Hx). In the end, I built one of these................a twin engine model, just for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> For a couple of years I'd perserverred with a totally inadequate 1800W 20L urn as a HLT. It annoyed me no end (understatement) whenever I was caught out with not enough water at the appropriate temp and it taught me a valuable lesson. I vowed that from then on any system upgrade would have more rather than less power. So that's why a 3700W Hx. And besides, I thought it would be interesting to carry out a comparison with either one or two elements running. Not sure I'll bother, though. Ran a water test and PID auto-tune a couple of nights ago and achieved better than 2.5 deg/min ramps. Quite impressive, I thought, and so much for any reservations regarding a 3m coil length.
> 
> Maiden HERMS brew coming this wk end, but so far I reckon my new HERMIT Hx is a ripper.




Very interested in this, as once my internal RIMS dies (maybe a few years away?) I though of this but was worried about the 3m s/s being conductive enough for the amount of heating.

So my next plan was to run dual coils, like this



But your design is better as it keeps the size small, and also we don't need a second coil. 


What flow do you get and what pump are you running?

With both elements running and ramping up temps, did you measure the water bath temp in the HERMS, did the plastic housing get very soft?


QldKev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Stubbie said:


> I'd wanted to build a HERMS Hx for quite some time and in particular been mulling over how to build one so as to be as efficient as possible. I wanted a smaller rather than larger volume combined with an element of adequate power so as to minimise heating lag and end up with a more responsive Hx. Even though not ideal from a heat conductivity standpoint, I also wanted a SS coil to allow the use of caustic cleaners to my heart's content. So when I stumbled up on the HERMIT coil, the fact that it was SS and the popular PVC build required only a 2 - 3 litre capacity, I thought it looked like a winner. There was a momentary reservation regarding the 3m length of piping, but obviously everyone else was finding it no such handicap in practical terms.
> 
> The last remaining decision was whether to use the suggested 1850W kettle element or whether to upgrade to a more powerful element (I'd been considering a 2400W or better for my pre-HERMIT ideas on a Hx). In the end, I built one of these................a twin engine model, just for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> For a couple of years I'd perserverred with a totally inadequate 1800W 20L urn as a HLT. It annoyed me no end (understatement) whenever I was caught out with not enough water at the appropriate temp and it taught me a valuable lesson. I vowed that from then on any system upgrade would have more rather than less power. So that's why a 3700W Hx. And besides, I thought it would be interesting to carry out a comparison with either one or two elements running. Not sure I'll bother, though. Ran a water test and PID auto-tune a couple of nights ago and achieved better than 2.5 deg/min ramps. Quite impressive, I thought, and so much for any reservations regarding a 3m coil length.
> 
> Maiden HERMS brew coming this wk end, but so far I reckon my new HERMIT Hx is a ripper.


Whoo hoo that is very cool !  
Must let us know how it works in practical brewing situation.
Remember to put a big base on it or secure it to a stable platform.
Nev


----------



## fraser_john

Stubbie said:


> I'd wanted to build a HERMS Hx for quite some time and in particular been mulling over how to build one so as to be as efficient as possible. I wanted a smaller rather than larger volume combined with an element of adequate power so as to minimise heating lag and end up with a more responsive Hx. Even though not ideal from a heat conductivity standpoint, I also wanted a SS coil to allow the use of caustic cleaners to my heart's content. So when I stumbled up on the HERMIT coil, the fact that it was SS and the popular PVC build required only a 2 - 3 litre capacity, I thought it looked like a winner. There was a momentary reservation regarding the 3m length of piping, but obviously everyone else was finding it no such handicap in practical terms.
> 
> The last remaining decision was whether to use the suggested 1850W kettle element or whether to upgrade to a more powerful element (I'd been considering a 2400W or better for my pre-HERMIT ideas on a Hx). In the end, I built one of these................a twin engine model, just for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> For a couple of years I'd perserverred with a totally inadequate 1800W 20L urn as a HLT. It annoyed me no end (understatement) whenever I was caught out with not enough water at the appropriate temp and it taught me a valuable lesson. I vowed that from then on any system upgrade would have more rather than less power. So that's why a 3700W Hx. And besides, I thought it would be interesting to carry out a comparison with either one or two elements running. Not sure I'll bother, though. Ran a water test and PID auto-tune a couple of nights ago and achieved better than 2.5 deg/min ramps. Quite impressive, I thought, and so much for any reservations regarding a 3m coil length.
> 
> Maiden HERMS brew coming this wk end, but so far I reckon my new HERMIT Hx is a ripper.



Nice professional looking assembly there too Stubbie, well done!


----------



## Stubbie

QldKev said:


> What flow do you get and what pump are you running?
> With both elements running and ramping up temps, did you measure the water bath temp in the HERMS, did the plastic housing get very soft?



Running a bog standard March 809. In truth, I didn't take an accurate flow rate measurement but guesstimated 3 litres/min. Definitely no observed problems with softening of the PVC - not yet, anyway.

My ultimate aim is to be able to fill the MT with a dough in volume of water, prime the pump and set the Hx and pump on a timer. Do that the night before a brew and, all going well, wake up in the morning to find the MT at strike temp, ready for doughing in. One of my concerns was whether the Hx could handle ramping water from say 15deg to say 61C (for a nominal protein rest) ASAP without bringing the Hx water to the boil. Whilst I did not measure Hx water temp, it certainly did not reach boiling point. But yes, would be informative to install either a thermometer or probe. Would be interseting to see how far the double element Hermit can be pushed before the Hx water comes to boil. One other observation, the PID controller was signalling the elements to remain ON for most of the ramp, so initial observations suggest 3700W is not an overkill at all.

My current MT is a Rubbermaid 38L esky, so holding a temperature was never really a concern. Going double elements was all about maximising ramp performance.

Clearly, it's early days and as I run the Twin Engine Hermit through its paces I'll endeavour to take some more accurate readings and learn more about how it performs.

Stubbie


----------



## Stubbie

fraser_john said:


> Nice professional looking assembly there too Stubbie, well done!



Thanks John.

Managed to find some 'odd-ball' sized 1/2 BPS male / 12mm Pipe compression fittings in stainless. Friggin exy, though 

Stubbie


----------



## sean_0

Anyone know if the craftbrewer 1/2" compression fittings will fit the Hermit coil? link here


----------



## Stubbie

fraser_john said:


> Nice professional looking assembly there too Stubbie, well done!



Forgot to mention, I simply followed some very straight forward instructions.
A big credit to Nev for developing and sharing such a simple build for a HERMS Hx. :beer: 

Stubbie


----------



## Stubbie

sean_0 said:


> Anyone know if the craftbrewer 1/2" compression fittings will fit the Hermit coil? link here



If they're 1/2 inch, they won't be compatible with the 12mm HERMIT pipe.


----------



## sean_0

Stubbie said:


> If they're 1/2 inch, they won't be compatible with the 12mm HERMIT pipe.



Thought as much - so can you share your source? 

thanks,
Sean


----------



## QldKev

You can adapt the 1/2" compression fittings as per here. I've done quite a few brew so far with them setup like this no problems at all. A proper 12mm fitting would be better thou.

QldKev


----------



## sean_0

QldKev said:


> You can adapt the 1/2" compression fittings as per here. I've done quite a few brew so far with them setup like this no problems at all. A proper 12mm fitting would be better thou.
> 
> QldKev



thanks!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

sean_0 said:


> Anyone know if the craftbrewer 1/2" compression fittings will fit the Hermit coil? link here


I have some 12mm compression elbow fittings on order for this purpose, also some short shaft thermo wells.
All due in approx 3 weeks.
Nev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Stubbie said:


> Running a bog standard March 809. In truth, I didn't take an accurate flow rate measurement but guesstimated 3 litres/min. Definitely no observed problems with softening of the PVC - not yet, anyway.
> 
> My ultimate aim is to be able to fill the MT with a dough in volume of water, prime the pump and set the Hx and pump on a timer. Do that the night before a brew and, all going well, wake up in the morning to find the MT at strike temp, ready for doughing in. One of my concerns was whether the Hx could handle ramping water from say 15deg to say 61C (for a nominal protein rest) ASAP without bringing the Hx water to the boil. Whilst I did not measure Hx water temp, it certainly did not reach boiling point. But yes, would be informative to install either a thermometer or probe. Would be interseting to see how far the double element Hermit can be pushed before the Hx water comes to boil. One other observation, the PID controller was signalling the elements to remain ON for most of the ramp, so initial observations suggest 3700W is not an overkill at all.
> 
> My current MT is a Rubbermaid 38L esky, so holding a temperature was never really a concern. Going double elements was all about maximising ramp performance.
> 
> Clearly, it's early days and as I run the Twin Engine Hermit through its paces I'll endeavour to take some more accurate readings and learn more about how it performs.
> 
> Stubbie


In practice the HX liquid cannot boil unless the pump stops and the power is on , believe me I have done it :lol: 
Bloody volcano !
Nev


----------



## Parks

Gryphon Brewing said:


> In practice the HX liquid cannot boil unless the pump stops and the power is on , believe me I have done it :lol:
> Bloody volcano !
> Nev


I also had a similar experience where my flow slowed considerably (belgian wit with 50% raw wheat) plus a badly configured PID. Needless to say my PVC tube is far from its desired shape <_< 

I am currently working with a guy trying to make some amazing bling out of 4" stainless tube and 4" tri-clover fittings. I will post up details and photos once it comes to fruition...


----------



## Stubbie

sean_0 said:


> Thought as much - so can you share your source?
> 
> thanks,
> Sean


Geordi. (www.geordi.com.au) Located in Cheltenham. Not a stock item, though, so they'll need to be ordered in.
I bought mine over the counter. If you speak to Jodi, she'll know what you're after (1/2 inch BSP male / 12mm Pipe Compression Fitting). But a warning, $27.50 each, which I concede is somewhat extravagant but I wanted a secure mounting for the t-piece outlet, in particular.

Stubbie


----------



## Stubbie

Parks said:


> I also had a similar experience where my flow slowed considerably (belgian wit with 50% raw wheat) plus a badly configured PID. Needless to say my PVC tube is far from its desired shape <_<
> 
> I am currently working with a guy trying to make some amazing bling out of 4" stainless tube and 4" tri-clover fittings. I will post up details and photos once it comes to fruition...



I had a similar approach in mind but chose to build a PVC version first for two reasons:
1. Wanted to prove the nominal 3.6kW design before committing to stainless, and
2. My HERMIT coil is ever so marginally greater in OD than the ID of nominal 100mm stainless tube. That would have meant having to slightly modify (read, tighten) the HERMIT coil so as to slide into 100mm stainless tube. Very interested to see how yours pans out.

Stubbie


----------



## Parks

Stubbie said:


> 2. My HERMIT coil is ever so marginally greater in OD than the ID of nominal 100mm stainless tube.


Hmmm.... that is a valid point, not sure we've checked that as yet. I guess that PVC would be 100mm ID. I'll get him to check!


----------



## Stubbie

Cannot recall the exact measurements but although there was only a millimetre or so discrepency in coil OD / 100mm tube ID, the other point to remember is that the HERMIT coils are not perfectly concentric and circular (although perfectly within acceptable tolerances for the intended purpose of a 100mm PVC pipe). So ideally, would want a few millimetres of nominal clearance between the nominal HERMIT OD and the intended tube ID.

Have tossed a few ideas around on how to jerry up a jig for tightening the coil, but for the time being that little project has been shelved. 

Nev, if ever there's scope for even a 2 mm reduction in coil diameter, that would make for possibly a useful design change. Just a suggestion.

My 2c.

Stubbie


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Stubbie said:


> Cannot recall the exact measurements but although there was only a millimetre or so discrepency in coil OD / 100mm tube ID, the other point to remember is that the HERMIT coils are not perfectly concentric and circular (although perfectly within acceptable tolerances for the intended purpose of a 100mm PVC pipe). So ideally, would want a few millimetres of nominal clearance between the nominal HERMIT OD and the intended tube ID.
> 
> Have tossed a few ideas around on how to jerry up a jig for tightening the coil, but for the time being that little project has been shelved.
> 
> Nev, if ever there's scope for even a 2 mm reduction in coil diameter, that would make for possibly a useful design change. Just a suggestion.
> 
> My 2c.
> 
> Stubbie


From memory I couldn't get the coils done in 1/2" tube due to the small diameter so had to settle for the 12mm tube at a nominal 98mm OD.
1/2 " tube would have been great but not do able in stainless.
Nev


----------



## Stubbie

Gryphon Brewing said:


> From memory I couldn't get the coils done in 1/2" tube due to the small diameter so had to settle for the 12mm tube at a nominal 98mm OD.
> 1/2 " tube would have been great but not do able in stainless.
> Nev



Oh no, wasn't suggesting a change in terms of 12mm tube, but rather a very minor reduction to the 98mm OD. 100mm standard stainless tube with a 1.6mm wall thickness has, IIRC, an ID of 97 point something mm - just a smidgen too small to accept the HERMIT as is. My thinking is that such a mod, if at all possible, would make an already successful product also compatible with standard 100mm stainless tube (ie. allow it to slide into the 100mm stainless tube).
A short length of 100mm stainless tube with 100mm off-the-shelf disc welded at one end and 100mm tri-clover fittings at the top end would make the basis for quite a blingy HERMIT Hx vessel, not to mention resistant to a meltdown. Just a thought.

Stubbie.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Stubbie said:


> Oh no, wasn't suggesting a change in terms of 12mm tube, but rather a very minor reduction to the 98mm OD. 100mm standard stainless tube with a 1.6mm wall thickness has, IIRC, an ID of 97 point something mm - just a smidgen too small to accept the HERMIT as is. My thinking is that such a mod, if at all possible, would make an already successful product also compatible with standard 100mm stainless tube (ie. allow it to slide into the 100mm stainless tube).
> A short length of 100mm stainless tube with 100mm off-the-shelf disc welded at one end and 100mm tri-clover fittings at the top end would make the basis for quite a blingy HERMIT Hx vessel, not to mention resistant to a meltdown. Just a thought.
> 
> Stubbie.


I agree to the upgrade blingness, it would make things more permanent (volcano resistant ).
I will see if I can bring the OD down a bit but I am 90% sure it will be a no from the coil maker  I have whipped them before :lol: 
If its viable it will be done.
Nev


----------



## Smokomark

1.7 litres capacity.
1.8-1.9 degrees per minute on a double batch with one of Nev's little brown pumps.

Works for me.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Great piece of HX build, if you can reproduce it on a mass scale I am sure you will be in demand.
I guess thats a mates rate build ? I would like one :icon_cheers: 
Nev


----------



## Smokomark

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Great piece of HX build, if you can reproduce it on a mass scale I am sure you will be in demand.
> I guess thats a mates rate build ? I would like one :icon_cheers:
> Nev



Thanks Nev

Unfortunately no chance of mass production.
I was lucky to be able to have free run of my mates stainless fabrication workshop.
And his awesome welding skills.

Cost me a bottle of Gentleman Jack.
Not bad value and fun demolishing it while making a new brewery toy.

Cheers,
Mark


----------



## Stubbie

smokomark said:


> View attachment 56944
> 
> 
> 1.7 litres capacity.
> 1.8-1.9 degrees per minute on a double batch with one of Nev's little brown pumps.
> 
> Works for me.



Now that is thinking INSIDE the square!!!  
Like your work.


----------



## Smokomark

smokomark said:


> View attachment 56944
> 
> View attachment 56949
> 
> View attachment 56945
> 
> View attachment 56946
> 
> View attachment 56947
> 
> View attachment 56948
> 
> 
> 1.7 litres capacity.
> 1.8-1.9 degrees per minute on a double batch with one of Nev's little brown pumps.
> 
> Works for me.




On the day I made this I had just finished rolling a piece of stainless into a 100mm ID tube to be welded up and end plated when another customer arrived at the workshop to pickup some gear.
Turns out he is the senior engineer for design / maintinance for one of the huge soft drink companies.

He was of the opinion that I could lose as much as 25% efficiency by having the coil to tight a fit in the pipe due to interupted circulation around coil. He thought 5-10mm clearance all around would be needed. A tight square tube wouldn't be as bad seeing as coil would only touch at 4 places.

Anyway I made mine with 3mm clearance on each side.

He also agreed as small a volume as possible was best. But also recommended a min 20mm freespace below element ( forgot the reasoning for this) and to at least have 2-3mm clearance from element to coil.

Thought this might help anyone thinking about something similar.

Mark


----------



## jlm

Is that just a standard kettle element housed inside? No matter how hard I squint I can't make it out.


----------



## Smokomark

jlm said:


> Is that just a standard kettle element housed inside? No matter how hard I squint I can't make it out.




Yes its a kmart $8 one. Mounted on angle so that coil could be set lower in chamber.
I will tidy up earth strap with some stainless braid soon.

Mark


----------



## jlm

Thanks. Planning something similar, depending on how much scrap I can salvage from work.


----------



## Crazydrum

Wow, I found this thread very impressive. This idea fits the gap between RIMS and HERMS. I want to build one.

I have a couple of questions and possible modifications.

I can find a boiler heater element like the one in the picture




it's 1200W and there is a tube to insert a thermostat.
I was wondering if I can use one of these. Additionally I could insert the thermostat that will prevent overheating limiting the Hermit water temperature to 80.

The second question is related to the PID probe. After the whole reading I still didn't understand.

Most of people put the probe at the Hermit exit. In this way the worth out from the heater will have the target temperature. This will cool in the pipe to the mash tun and will never be able to get the grain to the target temperature.
Is it there something I'm loosing?

Thanks

CD


----------



## Adam Howard

The speed of the flow between the coil outlet and the mashtun makes any losses in temperature negligible. The point of the system is to get the liquid with all the dissolved starches to the desired temperature not the grain bed as such.


----------



## geneabovill

So, I have an 8L urn (from Aldi) that I bought (to be modified) for other fermentation hobbies, but its so pretty and shiny, and would look nice next to other stainless cylinders I own ... Is the volume 8L too big for an efficient Hx?
GAB


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

geneabovill said:


> So, I have an 8L urn (from Aldi) that I bought (to be modified) for other fermentation hobbies, but its so pretty and shiny, and would look nice next to other stainless cylinders I own ... Is the volume 8L too big for an efficient Hx?
> GAB


It will work but slower and less efficient than the standard HERM-IT HX which is approx 1.7L
Nev


----------



## QldKev

Stubbie said:


> I'd wanted to build a HERMS Hx for quite some time and in particular been mulling over how to build one so as to be as efficient as possible. I wanted a smaller rather than larger volume combined with an element of adequate power so as to minimise heating lag and end up with a more responsive Hx. Even though not ideal from a heat conductivity standpoint, I also wanted a SS coil to allow the use of caustic cleaners to my heart's content. So when I stumbled up on the HERMIT coil, the fact that it was SS and the popular PVC build required only a 2 - 3 litre capacity, I thought it looked like a winner. There was a momentary reservation regarding the 3m length of piping, but obviously everyone else was finding it no such handicap in practical terms.
> 
> The last remaining decision was whether to use the suggested 1850W kettle element or whether to upgrade to a more powerful element (I'd been considering a 2400W or better for my pre-HERMIT ideas on a Hx). In the end, I built one of these................a twin engine model, just for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> For a couple of years I'd perserverred with a totally inadequate 1800W 20L urn as a HLT. It annoyed me no end (understatement) whenever I was caught out with not enough water at the appropriate temp and it taught me a valuable lesson. I vowed that from then on any system upgrade would have more rather than less power. So that's why a 3700W Hx. And besides, I thought it would be interesting to carry out a comparison with either one or two elements running. Not sure I'll bother, though. Ran a water test and PID auto-tune a couple of nights ago and achieved better than 2.5 deg/min ramps. Quite impressive, I thought, and so much for any reservations regarding a 3m coil length.
> 
> Maiden HERMS brew coming this wk end, but so far I reckon my new HERMIT Hx is a ripper.



Stubbie, hows this bad boy going? 

QldKev


----------



## brad81

Hi all,

I was wondering, why the need for a SS coil when copper can be used and is much cheaper and easier to work with?

Anything to do with passivation?

Thanks,

Brad


----------



## philski

brad81 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering, why the need for a SS coil when copper can be used and is much cheaper and easier to work with?
> 
> Anything to do with passivation?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad



Because SS is more bling bling....   

Less chance of it reacting with the wort, more sanitary, less chance of oxidation etc

However plenty of people use copper in their HERMS in fact it is probably more popular than SS due to cost. We were just lucky Nev managed to make one at a good price.

Cheers


----------



## QldKev

Seen how much copper oxidizes between uses?  I'd rather something more food grade that wont go funky cold Medina between uses.


----------



## brad81

More nutrient for ye yeasties!

But no, I haven't seen any (yet). Only used my submersiblespargethingy once, will have to check it out next time.


----------



## mfeighan

i think nev also said that the chinese work on stainless cheaper than they do on copper


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

As this is connected (Pun intended) to the HERM-IT HX build I thought I should post this in the thread for later builders.
HERM-IT Thermo well.
Link* HERE*




This one has an 12mm compression elbow which we dont have in stock ATM.
Only for illustration purposes.
Nev


----------



## Adam Howard

Looks like I'll be doing my first HERMS mash tomorrow! Went with the bottom mounted element, didn't require any silicone for it to be sealed. 12mm comp fitting works a treat Nev!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Looks good, let me know how the thermo well works laying down.
Nev


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Nev. I plumbed mine this way as this is the way it was setup when delivered - didn't think about it just whacked it on. Works fine.
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Only thing that worries me about this orientation is if the grain bed get compacted the tip of the thermo well may not get liquid contact.
In the upright position even with minimal flow liquid makes contact with the thermo well.  
I would also recommend some thermal grease inside the thermo well to better transfer the heat to the sensor.
Nev


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Only thing that worries me about this orientation is if the grain bed get compacted the tip of the thermo well may not get liquid contact.
> In the upright position even with minimal flow liquid makes contact with the thermo well.
> I would also recommend some thermal grease inside the thermo well to better transfer the heat to the sensor.
> Nev



Worried about orientation Nev .... hmm, there better not be any surprises at the case swap.

I make sure the probe is touching the inner thermo tube. I will reorientate so as not to cause you alarm and complicate the LIFETIME warranty offered  
Cheers
BBB


----------



## eamonnfoley

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Only thing that worries me about this orientation is if the grain bed get compacted the tip of the thermo well may not get liquid contact.
> In the upright position even with minimal flow liquid makes contact with the thermo well.
> I would also recommend some thermal grease inside the thermo well to better transfer the heat to the sensor.
> Nev



Yeah, otherwise you would have to go for a thin mash (4L:kg) to get over it. Almost guarantees a good flow rate.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Worried about orientation Nev .... hmm, there better not be any surprises at the case swap.
> 
> I make sure the probe is touching the inner thermo tube. I will reorientate so as not to cause you alarm and complicate the LIFETIME warranty offered
> Cheers
> BBB


Once you have touch it , and with your lack of man skills all warranties are void. :lol: 
Nev


----------



## felon

I use a 2400W element mounted from underneath running vertically up in the middle of the coil. The tube holds 2.5L of water.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

felon said:


> I use a 2400W element mounted from underneath running vertically up in the middle of the coil. The tube holds 2.5L of water.
> View attachment 58062


Can you post some pics and specs of the element you used and the HX SS tube, looks great ,is the tube off the shelf?
Nev


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Once you have touch it , and with your lack of man skills all warranties are void. :lol:
> Nev



you had me at touch ...


----------



## Adam Howard

It's not a thermowell Nev, it's a PT-100 sensor. I was thinking I'd mount it vertically, might change it before I start running it tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes tomorrow arv before CLUB NIGHT! :beer:


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Adamski29 said:


> CLUB NIGHT! :beer:


Ok if you remember after CLUB NIGHT!


----------



## felon

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Can you post some pics and specs of the element you used and the HX SS tube, looks great ,is the tube off the shelf?
> Nev



Hi Nev 
The element was from Stokes Appliances in Miranda, Sydney. Its product number is 2227-125R. It wasn't cheap because it was the shortest one I could find at 230mm long. It is 1 1/4" BSP thread. I went to a local stainless fabrication place and grabbed an off cut of 304 stainless pipe with an ID of 102mm and wall thickness of 3mm. I cut a circle for the base using 304 stainless 1.6mm thick and welded it on. I used a hole saw to cut a hole a tiny but smaller than the size of the element threads and opened it up with a file so it has a nice clean edge for an O'ring to sit against.




I made a wiring box to house the electricals out of 304 stainless RHS 100mm x 100mm x 3mm wall thickness 60mm long. I welded a 1.6mm sheet on one end for the element to go through. I made the hole the same size as the OD of a silicone O'ring so the element pulls the enclosure hard up against the tube base and only compresses the O'ring to 1.6mm thick. This stops the enclosure spinning and tearing your wiring out.


Hope this helps.


----------



## felon

I forgot to add the photo of my Herms controller. Not really a Hermit build though.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

felon said:


> I forgot to add the photo of my Herms controller. Not really a Hermit build though.
> View attachment 58070


NASA control system  
I will see if I can find some 102 ID SS tube and clean up my bad TIG skills.
Nev


----------



## Adam Howard

Well Nev, did the first batch with the Hermit today. English Pale Ale. Worked incredibly well. Programmed my PID correctly, allowed for a slower ramp rate that I thought it could pull and noticed the element not working as hard as it could. Bloody awesome, had crystal clear wort into the kettle and hardly any break material at the end of the boil.






And yes. That is a sub $10 soup ladle as a mash return arm. Works a bloody treat!


----------



## Camo1234

Anyone seen a corded kettle around lately? I tried K Mart, Target and Big W yesterday and all they had were cordless ones!


----------



## Truman42

Camo1234 said:


> Anyone seen a corded kettle around lately? I tried K Mart, Target and Big W yesterday and all they had were cordless ones!



The cordless ones still work fine in the hex coil. Thats what I used. Just get a cordless one instead.


----------



## Parks

Truman said:


> The cordless ones still work fine in the hex coil. Thats what I used. Just get a cordless one instead.


Yeah, they actually have the exact same element in them with the IEC pins and everything.

What you don't get is a new jug cord to use, so if you need one then it may not suit.


----------



## dent

The last cordless element I had, it had the pins in the same layout but they were a bit too short to make good contact with a standard IEC lead. But I'm sure there's probably some out there that are good to use as well.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Adamski29 said:


> Well Nev, did the first batch with the Hermit today. English Pale Ale. Worked incredibly well. Programmed my PID correctly, allowed for a slower ramp rate that I thought it could pull and noticed the element not working as hard as it could. Bloody awesome, had crystal clear wort into the kettle and hardly any break material at the end of the boil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes. That is a sub $10 soup ladle as a mash return arm. Works a bloody treat!


Welcome to the HERM-IT club :beerbang: 
I love the soup ladle idea, how did you think of that, beer ? 
I leave my PID setting as standard mainly because I am too lazy to change them, seems to work fine, the last .5 degree can take some time depending on flow of the wort.
Cam, I will look at the local Kmart to see if they have stock of corded kettles, might grab a few as stock parts.
Nev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Here is the latest HERM-IT coil bling set I have put together and includes snap locks off the elbow and thermo well.
Will get it on the site next week at a reduced price kit.  
Nev


----------



## brettprevans

my hermit works perfectly. Its great. Thanks Nev
now just to get the bloody PID to work :angry:


----------



## Parks

Looks great Nev!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Parks said:


> Looks great Nev!


Got to love bling things .
Nev


----------



## Parks

Well, after my failed attempt at trying to do a stainless version (tube ID too small ) I went back to the PVC to see what I could do.

So I was "cleaning the garage" for a few hours pondering, looking at the screw end cap piece and wondering how I could do it better. My biggest problem with the whole thing has been sealing the wiring properly.

This is what I came up with:



























So, now we have a nicely water tight housing for the cables. I now need to drill a hole through the side for a cable gland and work out the best means of connecting to the element. It's currently too close to simply plug a cable to it, but I realised you could easily glue a small section of 100mm tube anywhere inside to adjust the height giving enough room to do this.

To complete the build I simply add the 100mm tube and top as per Nev's original design. I'm pretty happy 

-- Oh, and if anyone knows of a better/easier method of getting a 100mm disc I'm all ears :lol:


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Its a nice idea, did you have to extend the tube over length to allow for the element mounted vertical ?
Nev


----------



## Parks

I haven't done the rest yet but at a rough measure I needed 25cm from the base of the element to the top of the screw cap lid. So probably 20cm of pipe give or take.


----------



## Parks

I also made sure the element was centred (as opposed to the hole being centred) so the element can sit up in the centre of the coil just a little bit.


----------



## QldKev

Parks said:


> Well, after my failed attempt at trying to do a stainless version (tube ID too small ) I went back to the PVC to see what I could do.
> 
> So I was "cleaning the garage" for a few hours pondering, looking at the screw end cap piece and wondering how I could do it better. My biggest problem with the whole thing has been sealing the wiring properly.
> 
> This is what I came up with:
> <<pics>>
> 
> So, now we have a nicely water tight housing for the cables. I now need to drill a hole through the side for a cable gland and work out the best means of connecting to the element. It's currently too close to simply plug a cable to it, but I realised you could easily glue a small section of 100mm tube anywhere inside to adjust the height giving enough room to do this.
> 
> To complete the build I simply add the 100mm tube and top as per Nev's original design. I'm pretty happy
> 
> -- Oh, and if anyone knows of a better/easier method of getting a 100mm disc I'm all ears :lol:



Looks good, I prefer the element mounted into a flat section. For the connection to the power I just used heavy duty crimps onto the existing terminals. I assume you are just going to silicone that ring into place? 

Did you see what I did here. It means the main body with the water is all in the main piece, and the base extension is just glued to the bottom, therefore if my handy work at gluing isn't the best it doesn't have to be water tight. 

QldKev


----------



## Parks

QldKev said:


> Looks good, I prefer the element mounted into a flat section. For the connection to the power I just used heavy duty crimps onto the existing terminals. I assume you are just going to silicone that ring into place?
> 
> Did you see what I did here. It means the main body with the water is all in the main piece, and the base extension is just glued to the bottom, therefore if my handy work at gluing isn't the best it doesn't have to be water tight.
> 
> QldKev



The plate I "made" is PVC glued in flush up against the ridge so it's guaranteed 100% water tight - no silicone required and very neat. I had done exactly as you did with the end cap originally and this is my second go (melted/deformed the first with no wort flow).

So in essence I have made a very similar thing to you, but mine is much neater, sexier, you get what I'm saying


----------



## Parks

> I assume you are just going to silicone that ring into place?


Did you mean the whole piece?

The piece I constructed will simply PVC glue onto 100mm tube.


----------



## QldKev

Parks said:


> The plate I "made" is PVC glued in flush up against the ridge so it's guaranteed 100% water tight - no silicone required and very neat. I had done exactly as you did with the end cap originally and this is my second go (melted/deformed the first with no wort flow).
> 
> So in essence I have made a very similar thing to you, but mine is much neater, sexier, you get what I'm saying



You want sexy, mines in the Ms Hermit Pageant


----------



## Parks

QldKev said:


> You want sexy, mines in the Ms Hermit Pageant


Ooooooooo!


----------



## Truman42

For those of you who use kegs as mash tuns with your herms, do you bother to insulate the keg at all or does the herms control the temperature good enough without needing to bother?

I started to polish my keg with a calico wheel and its come up fantastic so it would be a shame to have to then cover it with ugly blue camping mat. I know the herms will probably switch on and off more than if it were insulated but thats a small price to pay for some shiny bling sitting in my brewery.


----------



## QldKev

As you mentioned, without the insulation on the mash tun _and lines_ you will have more heat loss so your heating element will need to cut in more often. Whilst probably not the end of the world, IMHO I prefer to keep the temps nice and stable, so I've insulated mine. I think by being more stable you may have a more uniform starch conversion, in theory giving more repeatable beers. You will also save electricity as the element isn't running as often. Possibly when stepping the temps it will be faster as it's not also making up for heat losses. 

QldKev


----------



## Truman42

QldKev said:


> As you mentioned, without the insulation on the mash tun _and lines_ you will have more heat loss so your heating element will need to cut in more often. Whilst probably not the end of the world, IMHO I prefer to keep the temps nice and stable, so I've insulated mine. I think by being more stable you may have a more uniform starch conversion, in theory giving more repeatable beers. You will also save electricity as the element isn't running as often. Possibly when stepping the temps it will be faster as it's not also making up for heat losses.
> 
> QldKev



Good point Kev. Maybe I can just use my old BIAB camping mat wrapped around the tun during mashing so I can still have the BLING factor in my brewery when not mashing.  

Im starting to sound like an old pedantic guy here at work. He said the bolt legs on my mash tun didnt look good and I should buy some proper stainless feet and all this other stuff that would have cost me hundreds. I said to him its not a competition for the best looking brewery. If it makes good beer I dont really care what it looks like..


----------



## iralosavic

I'm glad you're putting that kit together - saves me flipping around your site figuring out the parts! Just in time for Xmas too ^^


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> For those of you who use kegs as mash tuns with your herms, do you bother to insulate the keg at all or does the herms control the temperature good enough without needing to bother?
> 
> I started to polish my keg with a calico wheel and its come up fantastic so it would be a shame to have to then cover it with ugly blue camping mat. I know the herms will probably switch on and off more than if it were insulated but thats a small price to pay for some shiny bling sitting in my brewery.


I do but thats because I am using tuns that are very ugly, the insulation does help but it would probably only buy you a beer at the end of the year.
Winter in Perth makes the insulation work.
Nev


----------



## iralosavic

Hey Nev, the kit on your website states 1x12mm Compression fitting, but 2 are pictured (and required). Cheers.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

iralosavic said:


> Hey Nev, the kit on your website states 1x12mm Compression fitting, but 2 are pictured (and required). Cheers.


Yes, the other is included in the Thermo well kit  
Nev


----------



## iralosavic

You sly fox! Looking forward to ordering the whole kit and kaboodle soon. Cheers


----------



## sponge

QldKev said:


> As you mentioned, without the insulation on the mash tun _and lines_ you will have more heat loss so your heating element will need to cut in more often. Whilst probably not the end of the world, IMHO I prefer to keep the temps nice and stable, so I've insulated mine. I think by being more stable you may have a more uniform starch conversion, in theory giving more repeatable beers. You will also save electricity as the element isn't running as often. Possibly when stepping the temps it will be faster as it's not also making up for heat losses.
> 
> QldKev



What are you using to insulate your lines kev (or anyone else for that matter)?

I'm looking at getting some insulation for the HERMS lines in the brewery and curious as to what are some options?


----------



## Parks

sponge said:


> What are you using to insulate your lines kev (or anyone else for that matter)?
> 
> I'm looking at getting some insulation for the HERMS lines in the brewery and curious as to what are some options?



IMO you really don't need it if you are using HD silicone hose and short lines.

I've seen plenty of people who use the black foam, kinda like a pool noodle with a cut down the side.


----------



## sponge

Yea my lines wouldn't be too long and am using HD silicone hose but was always curious as to what material was being used since I've seen it in a few brewery photos. 

I might just give it a go without and can always add it on later if need be.


----------



## Parks

I think the key thing is anything that feels *hot* is most likely losing your most efficiency. The silicone tube doesn't get that hot, but your stainless fittings all do.

If I were using stainless or copper tube or thin silicone (or long lengths) then I might consider insultation.


----------



## QldKev

If I grab a silicone hose it feels hot, so to me that's a potential to loose heat. On my longer lines I have a towel that I cut longways and sewed it into long tubes. On the shorter lines I have a heavy white stretchy material that once I again, I sewed into long tubes. With the towel over it, when you grab the line it is quite cool so I assume it does a great job. The white material is neater but is warmer to the touch. I looked at the plumbers insulation but didn't like the look of it; although it would probably make the best insulator. 

This pic is a while back before I repainted the brew stand, pre- camlocks and prior to the pots being insulated, but shows the towel.


----------



## mikeybycrikey

Just had my first proper play with it today, had a brew the other week using an esky/stainless braid/soup ladle with limited success so put together a copper manifold and wort return line for my esky and wow, works perfect. Heated up 14L of 53 degree water to 68 in 16 minutes. Cleared the wort very nicely. I tested it with my new youbeaut energy meter and it cost me under a dollar to run for the full hour (Second thoughts, that $1> includes the power for the pump and temp controller). Moral of story it works beautifully, priced very nicely and the build PDF made the whole job very easy. Good on ya Nev!


----------



## Camo1234

Does anyone know where to get a hot water kettle that isn't cordless these days?oris it easy to use a cordless one?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

You can use a Kmart cordless ($8.00) then you just need an IEC power cable ( 3 pin computer type).
Nev


----------



## Truman42

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You can use a Kmart cordless ($8.00) then you just need an IEC power cable ( 3 pin computer type).
> Nev



Thats all I used. Cordless kettles are better for these herms coils IMHO. Makes them neater to pack away without havin a cord to wory about.

Only thing is mine had a small white button on the inside of the black plastic round plate where the plug pushes into. Make sure this pushes in when you screw it into the element. If your PVC pipe wasnt flattened properly where you drill the hole for the element it can cause this button to not push in properly and your element wont work.


----------



## Camo1234

What's the thoughts on using one of these 5 Ltr urns as opposed to building a HX?
5ltr Birko Urn

I know it would cost more but I would be happy with a plug and play option plus it is stainless  
Would the 5 Ltr capacity make much difference compared to the 2 Ltr?
Cameron


----------



## Muscovy_333

Camo1234 said:


> What's the thoughts on using one of these 5 Ltr urns as opposed to building a HX?
> 5ltr Birko Urn
> 
> I know it would cost more but I would be happy with a plug and play option plus it is stainless
> Would the 5 Ltr capacity make much difference compared to the 2 Ltr?
> Cameron




If money is no issue it would work fine.

A lot of blokes enjoy the diy on the cheap aspect of brewing i suspect


----------



## QldKev

The only issue I see with the urn, is the bigger thermal mass of the water. It just means it takes a bit longer to respond, so when it turns of the heating element you are more likely to get more overshoot. A decent pid would probably work it all out for you. Also the bigger urn just means a bigger size vessel taking up space on the brew stand. 

Also I have not checked if the size is suitable, but I think it looks good. The Woolworths up here had asparagus cookers, basically like a tall s/s pot with a basket. They are 210 tall and 135 wide. They were a decent quality build using good stainless and fairly heavy. They were just $15. 




If I was building one I would seriously look at these, but I don't really want to redo mine.


----------



## MastersBrewery

QldKev said:


> The only issue I see with the urn, is the bigger thermal mass of the water. It just means it takes a bit longer to respond, so when it turns of the heating element you are more likely to get more overshoot. A decent pid would probably work it all out for you. Also the bigger urn just means a bigger size vessel taking up space on the brew stand.
> 
> Also I have not checked if the size is suitable, but the Woolworths up here had asparagus cookers, basically like a tall s/s pot with a basket. They are 210 tall and 135 wide. They were a decent quality build using good stainless and fairly heavy. They were just $15.
> 
> View attachment 59777
> 
> 
> If I was building one I would seriously look at these, but I don't really want to redo mine.



How fine was the basket kev? Looks like it'd make a really nice hop back.


----------



## QldKev

MastersBrewery said:


> How fine was the basket kev? Looks like it'd make a really nice hop back.



No where fine enough for a hop back, but I guess it could be lined with a bag made from swiss voile. Then you would just need to work out how to seal the lid closed.

edit: Just noticed there's a pic of the basket design on the box. 

QldKev


----------



## Muscovy_333

QldKev said:


> The only issue I see with the urn, is the bigger thermal mass of the water. It just means it takes a bit longer to respond, so when it turns of the heating element you are more likely to get more overshoot. A decent pid would probably work it all out for you. Also the bigger urn just means a bigger size vessel taking up space on the brew stand.
> 
> Also I have not checked if the size is suitable, but I think it looks good. The Woolworths up here had asparagus cookers, basically like a tall s/s pot with a basket. They are 210 tall and 135 wide. They were a decent quality build using good stainless and fairly heavy. They were just $15.
> 
> View attachment 59777
> 
> 
> If I was building one I would seriously look at these, but I don't really want to redo mine.



Nice find Kev, may even look at that for my ghetto coil set-up.

Could the thermal mass work to your advantage as well? I.e. more water at given temp = more consistent heat exchange once heated up?

Or am I way off. Due to an ongoing build I ramp my HERMS coil using a 20 litre HLT. It is short term but allows me to HERMS for now and I find it quite functional.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Just measured my ghetto coil, 220 tall and 140 wide....talk about custom made!
Thanks Kev...now to see if Woolies in Vicco stock this pot.


----------



## Batz

QldKev said:


> The only issue I see with the urn, is the bigger thermal mass of the water. It just means it takes a bit longer to respond, so when it turns of the heating element you are more likely to get more overshoot. A decent pid would probably work it all out for you. Also the bigger urn just means a bigger size vessel taking up space on the brew stand.
> 
> Also I have not checked if the size is suitable, but I think it looks good. The Woolworths up here had asparagus cookers, basically like a tall s/s pot with a basket. They are 210 tall and 135 wide. They were a decent quality build using good stainless and fairly heavy. They were just $15.
> 
> View attachment 59777
> 
> 
> If I was building one I would seriously look at these, but I don't really want to redo mine.




I've been looking everywhere for one of those Kev, I want to make a hopback out of it. Next time your there can you grab one for me?

Batz


----------



## QldKev

Batz said:


> I've been looking everywhere for one of those Kev, I want to make a hopback out of it. Next time your there can you grab one for me?
> 
> Batz




I should be heading out that way today (it at Bargara), one has your name on it. 

QldKev


----------



## Batz

QldKev said:


> I should be heading out that way today (it at Bargara), one has your name on it.
> 
> QldKev




Cheers Kev.


----------



## Tex083

I have been looking for one for ages, could only find $100 ones!
Now to find one in Vic - west side


----------



## sponge

Those look the ducks nuts. 

I have never seen anything like that around any of my local woolies...


----------



## Batz

sponge said:


> Those look the ducks nuts.
> 
> I have never seen anything like that around any of my local woolies...




Myself included and I've been watching for an asparagus cooker for a couple of years. As stated above most are $100ist and even on ebay way too expensive, they will be perfect for a hopback. BTW you do not need to seal the top, just keep your flow below this.

Anyway this has drifted miles away from the original _Hermit Coil Heat Exchange Build_ thread. my apologies.

Batz


----------



## QldKev

Just went and got one, they are now $19.98, but I think still a good buy.


----------



## Batz

QldKev said:


> Just went and got one, they are now $19.98, but I think still a good buy.




Thanks Kev,
I'll tell ya to put it in the car and head down for a beer or two...but I have Winkle and Rowy here this week and limited beer supplies, it'll be near on zilch by the time they leave the cave. :lol: :lol: 

Batz


----------



## Batz

QldKev said:


> The only issue I see with the urn, is the bigger thermal mass of the water. It just means it takes a bit longer to respond, so when it turns of the heating element you are more likely to get more overshoot. A decent pid would probably work it all out for you. Also the bigger urn just means a bigger size vessel taking up space on the brew stand.
> 
> Also I have not checked if the size is suitable, but I think it looks good. The Woolworths up here had asparagus cookers, basically like a tall s/s pot with a basket. They are 210 tall and 135 wide. They were a decent quality build using good stainless and fairly heavy. They were just $15.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 291220121525.jpg
> 
> If I was building one I would seriously look at these, but I don't really want to redo mine.



They had these at Woolworths Gympie at other day, $19.95. My guess is most Wollies stores must have them ATM, they really do look good for Hermit Coil Heat Exchange or a hopback (hop rocket) build.


----------



## Camo1234

Ok... First run using the HERM-IT controller and stupid me didn't double check the settings!

Doing a 5 step mash with 55,57,63,68,77 but when I looked up the forth step was actually set at 72c instead of 68c! So I had 30 mins at 63 and then20mins at 73!!!

What will this effect be do you reckon? I have never mashed this high or done a step mash except simple mash out.

camo.


----------



## Camo6

Hi all, been following this thread and slowly piecing together bits for the new system. Purchased one of Nev's coils w/ plumbing and very happy with quality of product. Had some 150mm stainless pipe from a friend's father's old still and have utilised it to suit the coil. Using a standard kettle element and a kaixin pump I did a trial run with water and had a ramp of 1.3 degree celsius per minute. Vessel holds 4.5l and is controlled with an STC1000 which seemed to hold temps without more than .3 degree overshoot. Admittedly this was with pump at full flow but should I expect similar results when recirculating wort through a grain bed?
FWIW new build is a 4v Herms using 3 x 50l kegs, single tier, 2x kaixin pumps, electric HLT, false bottom MLT, gas fired kettle, all stainless/silicone. Still yet to build the brewstand but taking my time to get it right and not overlook any design flaws. I'm a biaber and happy with results but just feel like overcomplicating things and spending money frivolously!
Also, I planned on placing the herms vessel on lower level of stand to help with pump priming. Is there any pros or cons to herms vessel location?
Sorry for all the questions, some of which off topic, but I've got a dozen more and appreciate any advice from more experienced brewers. Thanks Cam.


----------



## Truman42

Camo Here is my setup with the herms below the brew stand. It allows the wort to gravity feed down through the herms coil and up to the pump where I then switch on the pump to transfer up via the insulated line to the MLT. I fill up the MLT from the HLT located on the right via the same way. Then switch the ball valve over to recirculate through the MLT. (Which you can see is whats happening in the picture)

if I still have problems priming the pump I disconnect the line from the MLT and drop it down into a bucket until wort starts to flow out of the line then re-connect up to the MLT.

It works great for me.

Heres how my herms is setup.




And heres a close up of the pump setup.


----------



## Camo6

Thanks Truman. During my trial run I had the herms vessel and pump at the same level and the kaixin pump had no troubles priming a one metre head with only gravity assistance. Still trying to figure out best plumbing arrangement. Planning on using one pump for transferring water from hlt to mlt and another for mash recirc and transferring wort to kettle. Might use my little brown pump for kettle whirlpool as it seems to handle 100C flawlessly for extended periods. Anyway should prob post this in dedicated herms thread which I'm reading my through. But good work to Gryphon on producing a quality piece of bling at a good price.


----------



## hsb

I pump up through my HEX to guarantee its full of liquid. Down to pump, up through HEX, back across to Tun. Means I can see there is liquid behind the pump inlet to know i gotta the real good flow. Probably makes no difference ymmv etc


----------



## Camo6

Thanks HSB, that's what I had in mind. HLT to pump1 to HEX to MLT inlet (use this config for fly sparge also). Then MLT outlet to pump2 to HEX to MLT inlet for recirc. Then MLT outlet to pump2 to kettle. Prob should post sketches to clarify but figure with this setup I only need 2 male and 2 female quick disconnects and the rest can be hard plumbed. Also means only one pump used for wort transfer, the other only water. Considering two kaixin landed for $115, the extra pump is probably cheaper than additional taps ( nice find wolfy et al). Tapped my first belgian tonight ( Duvel clone) so apologies if post is a bit confusing.


----------



## Tex083

I ordered my Coil on Friday and it arrived Monday. Very happy with it, I still have to build the HEX. 
Can someone explain how the compression fittings work. The 2 collars that sit against the pipe confused me.

Thanks 
Dan


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Tex083 said:


> I ordered my Coil on Friday and it arrived Monday. Very happy with it, I still have to build the HEX.
> Can someone explain how the compression fittings work. The 2 collars that sit against the pipe confused me.
> 
> Thanks
> Dan


As you tighten the retaining nut the taper olive is compressed onto your coil tube forming a seal.
You have to tighten quite well but not excessive.
Nev


----------



## Tex083

Cheers I take it that this should be done AFTER I put it through the lid of the HEX.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Tex083 said:


> Cheers I take it that this should be done AFTER I put it through the lid of the HEX.


Yes that would be a LOT easier/essential, also when putting them on the tube pull them apart (noting orientation of the rings) and put the pieces on the tube individually,
if you dont it may be hard to slip the fittings on.
Nev


----------



## QldKev

Is anyone running 2 heating elements in a HERM-IT setup? I remember one person a while back mentioned he put 2 elements into a setup, but then has been missing in action. 

QldKev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

I was thinking the same, cant see why it wouldnt speed things up.
The reason we used the setup as is , is because the parts and the build was very easy .
We have upgraded from a 10A to a 40Amp SSR so that side of things will not stop a larger KW element.
The HX case may need to be upgraded to metal though ??
Camo6's stainless one looks the goods.
Nev


----------



## philski

Camo6 said:


> Thanks HSB, that's what I had in mind. HLT to pump1 to HEX to MLT inlet (use this config for fly sparge also). Then MLT outlet to pump2 to HEX to MLT inlet for recirc. Then MLT outlet to pump2 to kettle. Prob should post sketches to clarify but figure with this setup I only need 2 male and 2 female quick disconnects and the rest can be hard plumbed. Also means only one pump used for wort transfer, the other only water. Considering two kaixin landed for $115, the extra pump is probably cheaper than additional taps ( nice find wolfy et al). Tapped my first belgian tonight ( Duvel clone) so apologies if post is a bit confusing.


I do the same, connect HLT down to the pump, then up to the HEX and across to the MLT inlet. It just primes by gravity. It's also good to add an additional outlet ball valve at the inlet of your pump. Put a tee piece on the pump head inlet and connect the hose to one side and have a ball valve on the other. That way if you have air in the system you can open the valve into a bucket to purge. Gravity does the rest.

The morebeer sculptures out of the US have this as part of their design. I've adopted it and it works a treat

You can kind of see it in the image below.
.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

That is so obvious that I didnt think of it :blink:
I assume you need a hex nipple as well to join the T and valve.
Nev


----------



## bradsbrew

I recently added a tee peice at the pump inlet, that way I have the hlt and the mash tun both hooked up to the pump at the same time, I just open the ball bal valve to which ever I want running through the pump. I then have another tee peice on the exit of the hex, one to mash return and one to kettle. No more playing with hot hoses and only one pump.


----------



## philski

Gryphon Brewing said:


> That is so obvious that I didnt think of it :blink:
> I assume you need a hex nipple as well to join the T and valve.
> Nev


indeed you do. It works a treat.


----------



## Camo6

That's a great idea. It would allow you to drain your lines pretty easily after cleanup too I'd imagine.

What methods are hermit builders using to secure the coil to the lid and improve stability. I'm using a cheap, thin saucepan lid and the coil swings about a bit. I was thinking of a couple of ss washers and a hose clamp to each pipe to make it more rigid. Anyone else done something similar or prefer to let 'em hang on their own weight.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Camo6 said:


> That's a great idea. It would allow you to drain your lines pretty easily after cleanup too I'd imagine.
> 
> What methods are hermit builders using to secure the coil to the lid and improve stability. I'm using a cheap, thin saucepan lid and the coil swings about a bit. I was thinking of a couple of ss washers and a hose clamp to each pipe to make it more rigid. Anyone else done something similar or prefer to let 'em hang on their own weight.


Mine is that tight no room to swing, also quite tight in the hole.
I am going to find a nice metal tube an up the watts , yeah babe B)
Nev


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

:icon_offtopic: Nev - you had me at tight
BBB


----------



## philski

Camo6 said:


> That's a great idea. It would allow you to drain your lines pretty easily after cleanup too I'd imagine.
> 
> What methods are hermit builders using to secure the coil to the lid and improve stability. I'm using a cheap, thin saucepan lid and the coil swings about a bit. I was thinking of a couple of ss washers and a hose clamp to each pipe to make it more rigid. Anyone else done something similar or prefer to let 'em hang on their own weight.


Yep, the pump outlet valve works a treat. I'll take a photo of my pump when I get home tonight.

As Nev said, my coil is also very tight! I would imagine some SS washers and hose clamps (or even just hose clamps) will work fine.


----------



## philski

Here she is for all those interested.


March pump with a T piece on the inlet, camlock on one side and a hex nipple and ball valve on the other. Valve and camlock on the outlet.

The outlet valve is opened briefly if the pump doesnt prime, just splash a little into a bucket to get the air out of the system. Works a treat!

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:7008]


----------



## Camo6

Looks the goods Philski. How do you stop your dog chewing the plastic off the tap handles?!


----------



## Jez

Camo6 said:


> What methods are hermit builders using to secure the coil to the lid and improve stability. I'm using a cheap, thin saucepan lid and the coil swings about a bit. I was thinking of a couple of ss washers and a hose clamp to each pipe to make it more rigid. Anyone else done something similar or prefer to let 'em hang on their own weight.


I used these nickel plated cable glands on my herms to secure my coil to the lid. I will one day upgrade to the hermit coil but am only using 1/2" copper for now. 

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HP0748

Holds the coil nicely and is shiny!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Jez said:


> I used these nickel plated cable glands on my herms to secure my coil to the lid. I will one day upgrade to the hermit coil but am only using 1/2" copper for now.
> 
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=HP0748
> 
> Holds the coil nicely and is shiny!


Can you remember the size ?
Nev


----------



## philski

Camo6 said:


> Looks the goods Philski. How do you stop your dog chewing the plastic off the tap handles?!


hahaha she does love to chew stuff. Luckily I keep them packed away inside one the the SS pots. She'd have trouble gnawing through that!!


----------



## Jez

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Can you remember the size ?Nev


I'm pretty sure I got the 10-14mm size as my copper coil is 12mm


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Jez said:


> I'm pretty sure I got the 10-14mm size as my copper coil is 12mm


I was thinking the same, I am going to find a supplier for these and get some in.
Nev


----------



## Hippy

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I was thinking the same, I am going to find a supplier for these and get some in.
> Nev


Well I'll buy a couple if you do


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Hippy said:


> Well I'll buy a couple if you do


It will happen, searching for a supplier who likes a tight profit margin and doesn't require I buy 5000 
Nev


----------



## Tex083

Just got back from Jaycar - I got the 6-12mm ones as that was the biggest on the shelf.
Still works firm fit, just needed the top nut widened slightly to allow the coil to fit through. Thanks for the suggestion works so well!!


----------



## Tex083

Just gave the Hex and hermit coil it's first water test. Wow who would have thought watching water to from 24 to 76 would be so much fun! I just need a way to slow the flow a little.
Very happy with the coil performance ramped 1-1.5c per min using the little brown pump and minimal piping.

If you don't have one and are going down the HERMS path get one!!!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Tex083 said:


> Just gave the Hex and hermit coil it's first water test. Wow who would have thought watching water to from 24 to 76 would be so much fun! I just need a way to slow the flow a little.
> Very happy with the coil performance ramped 1-1.5c per min using the little brown pump and minimal piping.
> 
> If you don't have one and are going down the HERMS path get one!!!


It will slow when the grain goes in, if it requires more slowing a ball valve on the out let is your first choice.
Nev


----------



## Tex083

Brew day was a great success, I didnt have a chance to run the PID in auto tune mode first. The PID held temp 2Degrees above the set temp.
Mashed in well, HERMIT coil worked so well, maintained temp for the 60min mash, ramped to mash out.
Another very happy customer!
thanks
Nev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Tex083 said:


> Brew day was a great success, I didnt have a chance to run the PID in auto tune mode first. The PID held temp 2Degrees above the set temp.
> Mashed in well, HERMIT coil worked so well, maintained temp for the 60min mash, ramped to mash out.
> Another very happy customer!
> thanks
> Nev


Great to hear
Nev


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Here is our new HERM-IT HX COIL GLANDS
These CHROME PLATED BRASS cable glands suit our 12mm coil and allows easy installation of coil into your heat exchange.
Its also a Bling Thing 
Order a coil or coil kit up to Monday 8th April 2013 and get a set FREE.
* Requires 22mm hole for fitting to lid.


----------



## Hippy

Sold


----------



## Crusty

When ramping from say 55deg to 66deg & your system ramps at 1deg per minute, does the timer on these only start the countdown once the set temp is reached?
For example, 55deg for 15mins ( 11 mins to get to 66deg ) 66deg for 60mins or would the 11 mins come off the 60min set time which would now be 49mins @66deg.


----------



## iralosavic

The next step counter starts when the target temperature is reached. You can tell because the A only appears in relation to the selected step once the target temp has been hit, which correlates with the timer starting. At least this is what I have observed in my unit.


----------



## Crusty

iralosavic said:


> The next step counter starts when the target temperature is reached. You can tell because the A only appears in relation to the selected step once the target temp has been hit, which correlates with the timer starting. At least this is what I have observed in my unit.


Thanks mate,
Cheers.


----------



## pommiebloke

Just wondering if anyone knows the exact model of kettle required for this build? Had a look around BigW and KMart and couldn't see the ones mentioned here.

Failing that, has anyone used a Birko 5L urn to house the herm-it coil and if so, how was the performance?


----------



## Camo1234

I am using the Birko 5 ltr urn but get pretty slow ramp speeds anywhere from 2 mins 30secs to just over 3 mins per Degree with a 60-70 ltr batch.... Not sure if this is par for that size batch (tripple batch) but I am considering going to smaller vessle to get better ramp speeds.


----------



## Smokomark

A smaller vessel will give you shorter lag times and a lot less overshoot. The only way to speed up the ramp time is to add more heating power.


----------



## pommiebloke

I wonder if this would be any good? I would have thought 2000W would be enough for decent ramp times.


Rank Arena 8.8L Stainless Steel Hot Water Urn 2000W


----------



## GalBrew

I thought the same, 8.8L is quite a big volume though, when the coil is designed for 1.7L. I ended up getting the PVC pipe from bunnings. Easy enough even for a DIY train wreck like myself.


----------



## pommiebloke

GalBrew said:


> Easy enough even for a DIY train wreck like myself.


That's good to hear as I am the same :unsure:. I might go the PVC route then.

What kettle did you use for the element? And what heat source did you use to flatten the pipe?


----------



## leahy268

GalBrew said:


> I thought the same, 8.8L is quite a big volume though, when the coil is designed for 1.7L. I ended up getting the PVC pipe from bunnings. Easy enough even for a DIY train wreck like myself.


Haven't set it up yet and probably won't for a while but I got one of the 8L urns from Aldi for this purpose.
Planned on setting up a coil in the bottom with only around 2-3L of water.
That should work shouldn't it?
Otherwise it will be back to the drawing board..


----------



## GalBrew

I ended up mounting a keg king element through the bottom of the unit rather than using a kettle element. In my pipe setup, I basically attached the screwcap lids to both ends of the main pipe. Coild comes out one end and element the other and mount the unit horizontally. I wasn't keen on the whole pipe flattening part, so this was much easier. That being said I am yet to use the unit as I am awaiting my mash tun from the good folks at BeerBelly.


----------



## WarmBeer

pommiebloke said:


> Just wondering if anyone knows the exact model of kettle required for this build? Had a look around BigW and KMart and couldn't see the ones mentioned here.
> 
> Failing that, has anyone used a Birko 5L urn to house the herm-it coil and if so, how was the performance?


Found a *corded* kettle in at the Woolworths in Seaford, although can't find them anywhere nearer to home.

They are similar to the Abode brand shown earlier in this thread. Prices have gone up to $12!


----------



## Truman42

Any kettle from Coles Kmart etc would do. I used a cordless one and plug a computer power cable into it. To flatten my PVC pipe I put a piece of wood inside and flat pieces of steel until I was close to the top surface then used a heat gun on the outside and pressed it down with some more flat steel. But a hair dryer might do the trick too. If you dont use something on the inside to press against your wall wont be flat and the element wont seal.

@Galbrew....if your using yours horizontally ow will you stop the water leaking out where the coil comes out past the PVC lid? And if you seal it all up with silicone you need a vent hole of some sort.

If your going to mount your element from the bottom (Which is easier than trying to flatten the side wall of the PVC) I would use another section of pvc as a stand. You could get another end cap, cut out a hole large enough to cover the element part that protrudes outside and glue this onto the the other end cap back to back. Then screw a short piece of pvc onto this outer end cap and cut a notch in it for the cable to pass through. I would just make sure its stable on brew day by either tying it to your brew stand, make a bracket, or glue a heavy and wider base on the very bottom.


----------



## Truman42

Camo1234 said:


> I am using the Birko 5 ltr urn but get pretty slow ramp speeds anywhere from 2 mins 30secs to just over 3 mins per Degree with a 60-70 ltr batch.... Not sure if this is par for that size batch (tripple batch) but I am considering going to smaller vessle to get better ramp speeds.


With the hermit coil in a pvc pipe and a 2000 watt cordless kettle element I am getting a ramp time of 2 degrees a minute. Thats measured at the outflow of the coil.


----------



## Camo6

That's some quick ramp times truman. My hex is around 4 l and get around 1 - 1.3 degrees c per minute. Would have loved to use 100mm pipe but got the 150mm for free. I thought about insulating the hex but figure this would lead to overshoot.


----------



## WarmBeer

Ain't she a beauty...






Has had extra safety engineered in by way of additional black gaffer tape, and will silicone the kettle to a tile base for extra stability.

My wet-test using my STC-1000 saw me getting ramp speeds of about 1.3 - 1.4 degrees C per minute, recirculating 15 litres of water at maximum flow rate. Colour me happy.

Will be using it in anger this weekend, hopefully.


----------



## Truman42

WarmBeer said:


> Ain't she a beauty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has had extra safety engineered in by way of additional black gaffer tape, and will silicone the kettle to a tile base for extra stability.
> 
> My wet-test using my STC-1000 saw me getting ramp speeds of about 1.3 - 1.4 degrees C per minute, recirculating 15 litres of water at maximum flow rate. Colour me happy.
> 
> Will be using it in anger this weekend, hopefully.


Looking good mate. But I think that green tape being all crooked and wrinkled will affect your performance.


----------



## Truman42

Camo6 said:


> That's some quick ramp times truman. My hex is around 4 l and get around 1 - 1.3 degrees c per minute. Would have loved to use 100mm pipe but got the 150mm for free. I thought about insulating the hex but figure this would lead to overshoot.


My hex is insulated with that grey foam that builders use which is about 10mm thick and self adhesive.. With my stc1000 it would over shoot 1/2 a degree either side so if set at 65c would get to 65.5 before falling again and drop to 64.5 before starting to climb. Probably not ideal but repeatabaility is the key.

With the Pid it pulses the element so is spot on.


----------



## GalBrew

You make a good point Truman, I didn't want to silicon up the end where the coil comes out so I will mount the unit vertically to my brewstand.


----------



## Parks

Is anyone putting coolant or other in theirs to increase the boiling point and/or keep the liquid "less nasty".

I'm thinking it would be good if I had a preservative of some sort in it so that I didn't have to empty it each time (and leave it mounted to my brew stand)

-- EDIT --

I just remembered the PVC pipe probably won't handle anything higher than 100 degrees so should be very careful.


----------



## Truman42

Parks said:


> Is anyone putting coolant or other in theirs to increase the boiling point and/or keep the liquid "less nasty".
> 
> I'm thinking it would be good if I had a preservative of some sort in it so that I didn't have to empty it each time (and leave it mounted to my brew stand)
> 
> -- EDIT --
> 
> I just remembered the PVC pipe probably won't handle anything higher than 100 degrees so should be very careful.


You want to be able to unscrew the lid to pull your coil out to flush and hang it upside down to drain, and your going to get nasties growing inside your coil which will taste your beer.

Therefore just as easy to empty the water out of the pipe after use. Then refill on brew day. My lid is a bitch to screw on because I didnt make the holes in the right spot for the coil to pass through. It wants to cross thread all the time so I usually just screw it on 1/2 a turn and leave it at that.
if I made one again I would have the lid just slide on and off with one of those joining collars.

Like this


----------



## Khellendros13

Really keen on grabbing a HERM coil kit and using my STC controller to give this a go. 

Has anyone tried these as a vessel?

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Coleman-Jug-1-9L.aspx?pid=301048&menuFrom=571604#Cross

http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Coleman-Polylite-Jug-3-8L.aspx?pid=301049&menuFrom=571604#Cross


----------



## Parks

Truman said:


> You want to be able to unscrew the lid to pull your coil out to flush and hang it upside down to drain, and your going to get nasties growing inside your coil which will taste your beer.
> 
> Therefore just as easy to empty the water out of the pipe after use. Then refill on brew day. My lid is a bitch to screw on because I didnt make the holes in the right spot for the coil to pass through. It wants to cross thread all the time so I usually just screw it on 1/2 a turn and leave it at that.
> if I made one again I would have the lid just slide on and off with one of those joining collars.
> 
> Like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> herms.jpg


I missed this post. I have done my first few brews having got things setup (sort of...) now.

My thoughts are that I may end up leaving PBW in the coil between uses - keep the coil, my pump, plate chiller and hoses all flooded. It's a PITA having everything sitting just the right way to dry.


----------



## Truman42

Parks said:


> I missed this post. I have done my first few brews having got things setup (sort of...) now.
> 
> My thoughts are that I may end up leaving PBW in the coil between uses - keep the coil, my pump, plate chiller and hoses all flooded. It's a PITA having everything sitting just the right way to dry.


I dont think you can keep PBW or other sod perc (alakaline based) cleaners in stainless steel for long term as it will eat into the stainless. Where as acid based substances such as starsan are okay, hence why people often leave starsan soaking in their kegs until next use.


----------



## Parks

PBW is safe on stainless.


----------



## Truman42

Parks said:


> PBW is safe on stainless.


Ahh ok then I wasnt 100% sure thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Parks

Truman said:


> Ahh ok then I wasnt 100% sure thanks for clearing that up.


To be honest I have just done a heap of searching and couldn't find much on extended soaking. I have and do regularly leave all sorts of things soaking for months in PBW and anecdotally confirm the OKedness.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Parks said:


> To be honest I have just done a heap of searching and couldn't find much on extended soaking. I have and do regularly leave all sorts of things soaking for months in PBW and anecdotally confirm the OKedness.


That is good if all parts are the same grade of stainless but if one part is lower grade you will get electrolysis (galvanic reaction) damage from prolonged soaking.
Best to clean straight after use and store dry.
Nev


----------



## Parks

I wouldn't have thought there was much chance of that Nev but it's definitely a good point to think about.


----------



## Khellendros13

Got most of my HERM-IT build done last night. 9 hour leak test revealed a leak. Will have to silicone the shit out of it tonight 

I found a 1 gallon Coleman water cooler for $25. Fits perfect, but I would place the element 1-2cm lower next time. The Herm coil still clears it, just.

Element from a cordless Abode kettle.






Bent metal around the sides a bit so it didn't contact the plastic wall.
















Can just plug a standard kettle cord into this, no need to muck about. 





Insulation thickness between the inner and outer walls.






Will give it a whirl this weekend, provided the silicone does its job and seals up the leak.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

You could have removed a lot of the extra black plastic on the element mount and the clear switch parts and this would have made it easier to fit.


Nev


----------



## Khellendros13

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You could have removed a lot of the extra black plastic on the element mount and the clear switch parts and this would have made it easier to fit.
> 
> 
> 
> herhx11.JPG
> Nev


True, but I am keen to see how the temp trigger goes. See if it works on the plastic. I assume it triggers after the wall gets to 100c, and from peoples reports the water in the HEX is not getting above 90c when mashing out. 
I wanted to keep the switch too so I can flick it on/off when changing flow paths etc.


----------



## Khellendros13

Got the HERM-IT running my mash now.

Had some problems with the brown pump clogging with grain - my mash tun is not round, and the base is not 100% flat, so bits of large grain flow through until it sets. I will just have to run off the wort until it is mostly clear then connect the pump next time/when I sparge. A pain, but will invest in a better pump eventually.

STC-1000 set to 69c, overshoots to 69.3, drops to 68.5 then kicks in the element. Again, will invest in something better, like the HERM-IT PID eventually.

Still, happy with it for now. I might even get less of a temp differential when I move to a round 38L cooler and plumb the wort return up so I can screw the lid on. 

The Coleman 1gallon cooler is working awesomely. No leaks, and stable as can be, without the need for a base.

Happy brewer.


----------



## Truman42

Khellendros13 said:


> Really keen on grabbing a HERM coil kit and using my STC controller to give this a go.
> 
> Has anyone tried these as a vessel?
> 
> http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Coleman-Jug-1-9L.aspx?pid=301048&menuFrom=571604#Cross
> 
> http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Coleman-Polylite-Jug-3-8L.aspx?pid=301049&menuFrom=571604#Cross


My coil has expanded to the point that its a tight fit inside the PVC pipe and I cant screw the lid on anymore. Anyone else had this happen?

I might make a new coil using the coolers in the links above as they are a larger diameter than the standard 100mm pvc.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Or maybe the pipe has contracted or got out of shape ?
Nev


----------



## WarmBeer

My coil has expanded to the point that its a tight fit inside the PVC pipe and I cant screw the lid on anymore. Anyone else had this happen?

I might make a new coil using the coolers in the links above as they are a larger diameter than the standard 100mm pvc.

Interesting.

Anybody got any ideas for other users of Hermit coils to prevent this happening in the future? Maybe some way to wrap the coil In stainless wire?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Honestly I can see the coil expanding, I cant even get it to deform by force.
Nev


----------



## Truman42

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Honestly I can see the coil expanding, I cant even get it to deform by force.
> Nev


 Yeh I agree with you Nev. But I used to be able to drop the coil into the pipe no problems and screw the lid on. Now I have to force it into the pipe and its near impossible to get the lid onto the thread and screw it onto the thread.


----------



## GalBrew

I would be more inclined to believe that the PVC pipe has deformed rather than the coil. Using the PVC pipe as a casing for a herms coil is not what PVC pipe was designed to do (although my herms is in PVC also, not bagging that out by any stretch). The repetitive heating/cooling on the PVC might cause it to shrink or deform?? I have no idea myself but at least the SS coil is designed to take the heat.

Just a thought.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Truman said:


> Yeh I agree with you Nev. But I used to be able to drop the coil into the pipe no problems and screw the lid on. Now I have to force it into the pipe and its near impossible to get the lid onto the thread and screw it onto the thread.


Yes , mine does that too , I just sit it on now.
Nev


----------



## Truman42

GalBrew said:


> I would be more inclined to believe that the PVC pipe has deformed rather than the coil. Using the PVC pipe as a casing for a herms coil is not what PVC pipe was designed to do (although my herms is in PVC also, not bagging that out by any stretch). The repetitive heating/cooling on the PVC might cause it to shrink or deform?? I have no idea myself but at least the SS coil is designed to take the heat.
> 
> Just a thought.


I must admit there has been more than a few instances where ive stopped the pump but forgot to turn off the pid control and the waters boiled inside the hex. So at those high temps it probably has distorted the PVC. Although it looks fine by eye.


----------



## Parks

Truman said:


> I must admit there has been more than a few instances where ive stopped the pump but forgot to turn off the pid control and the waters boiled inside the hex. So at those high temps it probably has distorted the PVC. Although it looks fine by eye.


My first attempt certainly did turn the tube into something more oval shaped doing exactly this.


----------



## macca05

I am surprised how well these work. I build mine after visiting Nev and he tole me about the build. Since building it I ve only put on 2 brews but its flawless. I love it.


----------



## Truman42

macca05 said:


> I am surprised how well these work. I build mine after visiting Nev and he tole me about the build. Since building it I ve only put on 2 brews but its flawless. I love it.


Mine has done over 20 brews now and still works well. the cap wont screw in anymore but it doesnt stop it from working any less.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

I am currently looking for ideas on a new housing for the HX build.
I have been looking at asparagus cookers but they are a bit short at 8-1/2" as i want to upgrade the element to a 3kw (9-1/2") that enters through the bottom.
Any ready made ideas out there ?
Failing that there is the option to have them fabricated from sanitary fittings etc but this would be expensive.
Nev


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## Tilt

I've entertained the idea of using a stainless toilet brush holder/canister. The lid is pre drilled once you've taken the brush out and just rests in place but it may be worth looking out for one.


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## Camo6

All the ss dunny brush holders I've seen are pretty thin and poor quality stainless. They are also only folded at the seam and not water tight. If you find a good one could you send me the brush as I'm in need of a new head. Don't ask.


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## zappa

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I am currently looking for ideas on a new housing for the HX build.
> I have been looking at asparagus cookers but they are a bit short at 8-1/2" as i want to upgrade the element to a 3kw (9-1/2") that enters through the bottom.
> Any ready made ideas out there ?
> Failing that there is the option to have them fabricated from sanitary fittings etc but this would be expensive.
> Nev


I used an asparagus cooker for my HX, but made my own coil. $7 kettle element fitted through the base. I then used a100mm to 80mm rubber coupling for PVC pipe and a blanking cap for the base. It slipped nicely around the pot. This is the only pic I have on me, but it should give you the idea. I'll see if I can remember to take a pic when I get home.





FWIW, it's an expensive way to go (cost me about $80 for the pot alone), but it's effective enough. It's on my hit list for an upgrade though, except next time I'll be getting a stainless canister custom made (brother is a Boilermaker)


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## zappa

FYI, this was the pot ;

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/m/products/all-clad-stainless-steel-asparagus-pot/


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## Online Brewing Supplies

A lot of then even have plastic bases .
I will go ahead and see what the price is like on the sanitary fittings , cooperville's unit on you tube is a cracker but around $250 its prohibitive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dAjFFeMidY


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## Parks

Gryphon Brewing said:


> A lot of then even have plastic bases .
> I will go ahead and see what the price is like on the sanitary fittings , cooperville's unit on you tube is a cracker but around $250 its prohibitive


I actually looked into getting something done with 4" triclovers and tube but unfortunately the HERM-IT coil it slightly too big in diameter. 100mm pipe is fine as it's rated to 100mm inner diameter whereas 100mm tube is outside diameter.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Parks said:


> I actually looked into getting something done with 4" triclovers and tube but unfortunately the HERM-IT coil it slightly too big in diameter. 100mm pipe is fine as it's rated to 100mm inner diameter whereas 100mm tube is outside diameter.


The new coils are less about 90-95mm just for that reason so it may still work.


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## GalBrew

I have to admit it, after not being all that keen on the PVC pipe thingy, it has grown on me. Here is my setup with heatstick element shoved in the middle of the coil.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

I was worried that if mounted from the top and there wasnt enough water to cover the element there would be a hot spot and this would stuff it .
How long have you had it this way, any problems ?
I assume its a 2.4Kw which is better than the 2kw max kettle element.
Nev


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## Grainer

2.4kw is perfect ..mind you my element is mounted at the bottom for the reason Nev said.. ramp times are great... If i were you I'd consider changing to the bottom of the unit and you can also cut your PVC down to limit the amount of water in the HERM-IT to get better ramp times..


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## GalBrew

Yeah, 2.4kw. I fill the bottom part with water to the top and then lower the whole coil/element part in and screw the lid on which pushes some of the water out, so I can only assume the element is covered in water. Haven't had any issues yet, but I will keep an eye on things.


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## pommiebloke

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I am currently looking for ideas on a new housing for the HX build.
> I have been looking at asparagus cookers but they are a bit short at 8-1/2" as i want to upgrade the element to a 3kw (9-1/2") that enters through the bottom.
> Any ready made ideas out there ?
> Failing that there is the option to have them fabricated from sanitary fittings etc but this would be expensive.
> Nev


I'd be interested in a fabricated housing Nev. The only thing that's put me off getting your HERM-IT system is the need to make the housing and install an element.

A turnkey system with housing and element all made up would be the business.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

pommiebloke said:


> I'd be interested in a fabricated housing Nev. The only thing that's put me off getting your HERM-IT system is the need to make the housing and install an element.
> 
> A turnkey system with housing and element all made up would be the business.


I am hearing you and 100% going to happen when I find all the required parts.
Nev


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## Online Brewing Supplies

GalBrew said:


> Yeah, 2.4kw. I fill the bottom part with water to the top and then lower the whole coil/element part in and screw the lid on which pushes some of the water out, so I can only assume the element is covered in water. Haven't had any issues yet, but I will keep an eye on things.


Can you give me the length of the stick element so I can estimate the size of the HX tube ?
Nev


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## trevgale

I'm still using a jug with a home made copper coil. I have been thinking of upgrading to one of the Gryphon stainless coils for a while. One option I looked at for the housing is a stainless steel pasta container. They hold around 2L the 3 3/4" diameter might be a bit tight though.

Here is a link to one on ebay, I haven't seen any that look suitable in Australia though. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pasta-Jar-Stainless-Steel-Spaghetti-Holder-Food-storage-container-Eurodib-/261252028783?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


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## pommiebloke

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I am hearing you and 100% going to happen when I find all the required parts.
> Nev


Awesome. I see a huge gap in the market for a turnkey HERMS system for those people who aren't so handy or don't want to make their own.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

trevgale said:


> I'm still using a jug with a home made copper coil. I have been thinking of upgrading to one of the Gryphon stainless coils for a while. One option I looked at for the housing is a stainless steel pasta container. They hold around 2L the 3 3/4" diameter might be a bit tight though.
> 
> Here is a link to one on ebay, I haven't seen any that look suitable in Australia though.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pasta-Jar-Stainless-Steel-Spaghetti-Holder-Food-storage-container-Eurodib-/261252028783?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


Problem being the glass lid, really need some thing I can easily put two holes in.
And as mentioned a tight squeeze.


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## Grainer

pommiebloke said:


> I'd be interested in a fabricated housing Nev. The only thing that's put me off getting your HERM-IT system is the need to make the housing and install an element.
> 
> A turnkey system with housing and element all made up would be the business.


Really.. these are a piece of piss to build.. You can do it in an hour.. If you were in Melbourne I could show you .. I have parts fora second build...


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## pommiebloke

Grainer said:


> Really.. these are a piece of piss to build.. You can do it in an hour.. If you were in Melbourne I could show you .. I have parts fora second build...


The thing I worry about is the element. I've looked for a kettle which I can dismantle but they all seem to be cordless ones these days. Not too confident with wiring.

Could you use a keg king element like the one here?


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## Grainer

Ill Try do a pic diagram soon to show you how easy it is... Have to go out tonight...maybe even a video...


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## Online Brewing Supplies

pommiebloke said:


> The thing I worry about is the element. I've looked for a kettle which I can dismantle but they all seem to be cordless ones these days. Not too confident with wiring.
> 
> Could you use a keg king element like the one here?


Its not what I would be looking at on my HERM-IT HX builds but I think if it has a 1" BSP thread on the mount it could work with my planned HX structures.
1" BSP is pretty standard for an element mount in single phase.
Nev


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## GalBrew

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Can you give me the length of the stick element so I can estimate the size of the HX tube ?
> Nev


Hi Nev, my element is not 2.4kw as stated previously, it is infact a 2.2kw new model Keg King element. The element length is 30cm. Sorry for any confusion (on my part). Seeing as there have been issues with previous KK models I may just flip the element to the bottom of the heat exchanger as per your suggestion.....won't take too long.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

GalBrew said:


> Hi Nev, my element is not 2.4kw as stated previously, it is infact a 2.2kw new model Keg King element. The element length is 30cm. Sorry for any confusion (on my part). Seeing as there have been issues with previous KK models I may just flip the element to the bottom of the heat exchanger as per your suggestion.....won't take too long.


Thanks, that gives me some thing to work on, its going to be a balancing act to allow for 30cm and weighing up the extra few Kw's.
I think I will look at getting some 2.4Kw made to a working length of approx 20cm, they would be twin rod folded back over on itself like the image.
I really want to keep the Herm-it HX volume down to a minimum to gain maximum ramp power.


Nev


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## mr_wibble

G'day

What's the consensus on housing a HX element and coil in an old shell casing; like this one - http://www.mitchells.net.au/shop/product_info.php?products_id=905
I think that would look fantastic after a bit of polish. A bit pricey though.

Maybe I should just use the plastic pipe and cloak it in some nice wood.


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## 5150

Hey Guys,

I was just wondering if anyone has found a cheap kettle with a 2400w or 2500w element. I bought one from the reject shop which has the exact same element in it as the woollies one, (1850 - 2200w) and it was only $7. 

The other thing I wanted to say is that I ended up using a 38mm hole saw and file it out a bit as I couldn't find any mates with a 40mm. The 38mm hole ended up being about 38.4 once clean up and the silicon washer fits perfectly. Anyway I hope this may help future HX builders.

Cheers,
Richard


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## Fat Bastard

I want to retire the old 2000w Aldi 8l Urn HX vessel now that I'm using a bigger pump for recirculating. I was getting just over 1 degree a minute at brown pump flow rates, but with the greater flow, I reckon the power is too little and the thermal mass too great for those sort of ramp times.

So, I have found a bit of 135mm stainless pipe with a conical end which should work smashingly well as a stable base, and I now need to find a nice, flat element to fit inside. I'm looking for a 2400w element that will fit vertically through the bottom of the HX vessel, and sit as low down as possible as I _need _(want) to have the outlet at the same height as the inlet on the mash tun due to OCD.

Has anyone found such an element? It's got to be no greater that 135mm in any dimension and as low as possible. I can get a bend your own element made and use that, but if i can avoid the hassle and expense, I'd rather just go for something off the shelf.

Cheers,

FB


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## MattyFin

Received my coil and compression fittings today off Nev, Cheers mate! Should be knocking up the HEX sometime this week, brew rig is slowly coming together!


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## Online Brewing Supplies

pommiebloke said:


> Awesome. I see a huge gap in the market for a turnkey HERMS system for those people who aren't so handy or don't want to make their own.


As promised I have sourced all the stainless parts to make a dedicated Stainless HERM-IT HX.
They will be 304 stainless , 4" tube with tri clover fittings (silicon seals, stainless clamps) top and bottom.
Bottom plate will have a 1" BSP tank socket to allow fitting an electrical element, the top plate will have two brass cable glands to allow easy fitting of the HERM-IT coil.
The main tube will be 300 mm high and have the option of mounting brackets for mounting to brew stand or wall.
No pics or price as yet as its all being finalised this week then they need to be built and shipped.
Hopeful to have them in the next three weeks.
Nev


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## Yob

Sounds awesome Nev, don't forget to post the postage costs east


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## keifer33

Don't know if I have told you this before Nev...but your a top bloke and have twisted my arm to more than likely purchase this to finally complete my herms.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Yob said:


> Sounds awesome Nev, don't forget to post the postage costs east


We have estimated the HX will be in the 3kg range, if it doesnt go over then it will be under $15 to post.


keifer33 said:


> Don't know if I have told you this before Nev...but your a top bloke and have twisted my arm to more than likely purchase this to finally complete my herms.


I am only ordering 10 units to start with so I may have to do a pre order run although I would like to have them landed and QC'd before selling preferably.
I have dibs on one 
Nev


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## zappa

I'd definitely be keen for one of these also. Pretty much exactly what I was hoping to have built myself, so if the price is right, I may as well pay you


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## keifer33

Happy to do some QC if necessary ;-)


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## Parks

Gryphon Brewing said:


> They will be 304 stainless , 4" tube with tri clover fittings (silicon seals, stainless clamps) top and bottom.
> Bottom plate will have a 1" BSP tank socket to allow fitting an electrical element, the top plate will have two brass cable glands to allow easy fitting of the HERM-IT coil.
> The main tube will be 300 mm high and have the option of mounting brackets for mounting to brew stand or wall.


That's awesome news Nev. Did you manage to make the coils even smaller to fit standard 4" tube?

(I'm wondering if my current HERM-IT coil will fit your new setup or if I would need to buy a newer coil.)


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Parks said:


> That's awesome news Nev. Did you manage to make the coils even smaller to fit standard 4" tube?
> 
> (I'm wondering if my current HERM-IT coil will fit your new setup or if I would need to buy a newer coil.)


The new coils (90mm) will fit, the older ones I will have to try.
I am prepared to offer you a discount on a new coil if necessary being you are an existing HERM-IT customer.
Nev


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## Camo6

Would you swap for a vintage SS herm-it hex Nev? You could put it on display in the herm-it museum.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Camo6 said:


> Would you swap for a vintage SS herm-it hex Nev? You could put it on display in the herm-it museum.


I have the original HX here in my man cave, not stainless but...
Generous offer though .
Nev


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## Parks

Sounds good Nev - I'll await pricing


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## catcher

Keen to know a price


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## GalBrew

Any word on the SS casing Nev? On my last brew the PVC casing melted/softened a tad whilst running a mash out.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

GalBrew said:


> Any word on the SS casing Nev? On my last brew the PVC casing melted/softened a tad whilst running a mash out.


I expect in the next 10-14 days if no hiccups.
Nev


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## jaypes

any update?


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Yes its arrived you will find the thread here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/79820-herm-it-hxss/
Nev


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## stux

Anyone know what ramp rate can be expected with a 3KW or 3.6KW element on an 80-90L mash?

Would be using a March 815 and a well insulated techniice mash tun


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## BrutusB

Has anyone considered one of these for a build?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-3-6L-stainless-Mini-keg-Growler-wine-pot-Beer-Growlers-Unbreakable-Homebrew-Carbonating/32406979552.html


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## Mardoo

Pretty good price. I did consider it but the ones I found were too pricey.


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## BrutusB

Mardoo said:


> Pretty good price. I did consider it but the ones I found were too pricey.


About AUD $65 delivered... Thought it was reasonable too.


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