# Carbonation Drops



## winky420 (29/10/08)

The instructions on my carbonation drops say 2 drops per 750ml bottle, but my bottles are 640ml. Will 2 drops be too much for a 640ml bottle?


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## saturn (29/10/08)

I have some 600 ml bottles ans I carbonate with one drop it takes a bit longer than 2 weeks to fully carbonate but I find it works out well at about a month

My experience with 2 drops and smaller bottles has been bombs abd brown fountains


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## rclemmett (29/10/08)

Yes and no.

Whats in it, and whats the final gravity reading?


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## Noxious (29/10/08)

Shit!
It's the crack fox...I thought all he brewed was blood from a cat's face dispensed in half tennis balls??


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## winky420 (29/10/08)

Unsure of SG, hasnt finished fermenting yet. Im using a standard kit w/enhancer.


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## rclemmett (29/10/08)

Noxious said:


> Shit!
> It's the crack fox...I thought all he brewed was blood from a cat's face dispensed in half tennis balls??




Thats just to help the toothpaste and big pieces of #&*$ to go down, seems to cut the grease.


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## rclemmett (29/10/08)

winky420 said:


> Unsure of SG, hasnt finished fermenting yet. Im using a standard kit w/enhancer.




If it is a style that would be suited to high carbonation I would say yes, but if its a kit with enhancer I'd be guessing a FG of 1008-1010, so I'd say use one drop. What kit is it?


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## winky420 (29/10/08)

It is Munich Lager. dont know if was with a kit convertor or booster/enhancer, whatever the guy gave us. Pretty new to brewing.


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## buttersd70 (29/10/08)

according to the coopers faq


> Coopers Carbonation Drops look like boiled lollies and contain the equivalent of 3g of sugar. Use them instead of measuring out white sugar to speed up the bottling process. The drops will dissolve within an hour and plume through the brew so there is no need to invert the bottles.



So, from this, 1 drop per 600ml bottle will give you the same as 5g/L (and 2 would give 10g/L)....
depending on what the fermentation temperature was (I will assume 20C), working it out on this calculator here

5g/l will give you 2.1vol CO2 (similar to an English Best Bitter, very low carbonation level)
10g/l will give you 3.35vol CO2 (super fizzy assuming your bottles survive.)

2 drops in a 750ml bottle will give you 2.9volCO2 (which many people find to aggressive for 'general' use, but thats all down to opinion)

So, with these bottles, the drops are going to give real issues either way. I happen to gas my kegs at 2.1vol, its perfect for a bitter. But I always bottle it a little higher, or it causes real issues with the pour

Bulk priming is preferable, then the bottle size is irrelevant. But for 2.5vol co2 which I find to be a good happy medium, you would need 4g/600ml (or 7g/L for 2.6vol)


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## peas_and_corn (29/10/08)

Wait, there is no need to invert the bottles? The video I got with my kit lied to me!

I bulk prime now


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## buttersd70 (29/10/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> The video I got with my kit lied to me!



 :lol:


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## rclemmett (29/10/08)

I find one carb drop way too much for 330ml bottles and just right for 500ml bottles, so if I were you I'd only use one. Overcarbed beer is a pain in the arse, I would rather very low carbonation to overcarbonation, as at least you can still drink it. I now bulk prime, I find it makes things quicker and easier.


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## Noxious (29/10/08)

As a rookie bulk primer, I am unsure how to achieve the results I was previously getting from drops/single bottle dex.
I've heard around 180gm/23 litres for good carbonation.
Does anyone have any guidelines for styles vs dex rates in bulk priming?

eg. Would it be around 200gm for a lager style and 170 for an english ale style?
Any help appreciated..

P.S - Not trying to hijack the thread but figured people in the know would be reading this thread in particular
Cheers


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## winky420 (29/10/08)

How do you bulk prime? Just put the right amount of drops/sugar into the fermenter and bottle it once its dissolved?


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## buttersd70 (29/10/08)

Noxious, there is a link to a primign calculator in my previous post, and that has gerneral style guides on it in a drop down list.

Winky, have a read of the article here


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## rclemmett (29/10/08)

Noxious said:


> As a rookie bulk primer, I am unsure how to achieve the results I was previously getting from drops/single bottle dex.
> I've heard around 180gm/23 litres for good carbonation.
> Does anyone have any guidelines for styles vs dex rates in bulk priming?
> 
> ...



I normally do between 5 and 7g per litre. As butters said "5g for an English bitter", and I find 7g for a light lager good. I find the higher the final gravity the less priming sugar needed, but I am unsure of the science behind that.


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## Adamt (29/10/08)

Rob2 said:


> Thats just to help the toothpaste and big pieces of #&*$ to go down, seems to cut the grease.



...and Head and Shoulders.

Uh oh, I made a tummy shame...


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## Bribie G (29/10/08)

IMHO 180g would be absolute tops especially if you are keeping the beer for a while, as it can gradually ferment out further and get quite fizzy.

For an English Bitter (remember that in the UK true bitters are not generally bottled and are meant to be drunk from cask or keg) you might want to go as low as 120g.

Here's a so called bitter I did at 150g. Not exactly your lightly carbed brew.





Back on topic: Winky I would agree with prevous posters who suggested one drop per bottle in your case. If you are going to keep using same size bottles you should really go bulk priming with a fifteen dollar 'fermenter' from Bunnings, a tap for $1.50 and a length of tubing from your LHBS. 

Cheers


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## KGB (30/10/08)

I'd go with one drop, give it plenty of time to do its thing and move on from the drops next time if you're unhappy with the results.
I agree with Rob2: "I would rather very low carbonation to overcarbonation".


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## Katherine (30/10/08)

Why not use a measuring spoon and dextrose or table sugar. Just as easy and cheaper


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## SJW (30/10/08)

Hi mate, just a word of warning. DON'T USE CARBONATION DROPS. These things are crap and I can almost guarantee that they will stuff up your beer. 
Go to Bunnings and buy a 25 or 30 litre fermenter type drum and a tap. Boil up 180 grams of normal sugar or better, dextrose with about 200mls of water. Stick this in the second fermenter and drain all the beer from the first (primary fermenter) to the secondary via a length of clear pvc tube. Gently mix with a big spoon and then bottle into any size bottles you like.
If u are anywhere near Newcastle drop in and I can lend u a spare fermenter or even do if for you.

Steve


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## brettprevans (30/10/08)

SJW thats a bit of a broad statement. Ive always used carb drops (or variations of) and never had a problem with them. is bulk priming better, well probably aws you have more control but there's nothing wrong with carb drops. but lets not start a carb drop war. there's plenty of other threads on this.

Dude - take up Steve's generous offer.


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## SJW (30/10/08)

I can't understand carbonation drops. I think if u are going to all the trouble of brewing a beer, even a kit beer, which can also be exceptional beers, why would you bother using carbonation drops? All I can say is try bulk priming with dextrose and you will feed the carbonation drops to the dog (if he will eat them)
and yes I have used them, many many years ago. Back then they were too fat to even fit through the neck of a king brown. I hate em, and I would argue that that you could make an exceptional beer with them.

(Steve gets fitted for flame suit)

Steve


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## Kleiny (30/10/08)

BULK PRIME 

YOU CAN DO IT :lol: 

Once you start bulk priming you wont even bother buying the carb drops.
Follow Steves advice above and you cant go wrong


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## brettprevans (30/10/08)

i did say to go with your offer steve. bulk prime once and you wont go back (unless really pched for time). or miss avoid the whole issue and keg *CM2 dons on his flamesuit*


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## QIK86 (30/10/08)

I never wanted to start bulk priming as it seemed like so much extra work. But once I did it, I found how easy it was. And you have such great control over carbonation levels. It really is worth giving it a go. You won't look back.


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## SJW (30/10/08)

I will even throw in a few roadies of what ever is on tap at the time.


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## flattop (30/10/08)

Well i have 2 packs of candy to use up, bottle a brew today and used about 40 candies and plain white sugar in the rest... I'll sample and see.
I like the idea of racking and bulk priming at the same time, once the candy is gone.

Question Steve, when you are bulk priming it sounds like you are not racking for any length of time, do you leave it a few hours or is it straight out of the secondary and to bottling?


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## SJW (30/10/08)

No, just rack it straight onto the sugar solution then bottle. Dextrose is much better than plain sugar, it gives it a finer fizz, more like beer should be.


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## flattop (30/10/08)

Yeah my mate told me dex was better, i had some but it was packaged up in a 5 k bag and sugar was closer to hand. No harm done i will drink the sugar ones the same.


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## Peaka (30/10/08)

You can also just whack the sugar into the primary fermenter instead of racking can't you? But it needs to be dissolved in boiling water first is that right?


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## Goofinder (30/10/08)

Peaka said:


> You can also just whack the sugar into the primary fermenter instead of racking can't you? But it needs to be dissolved in boiling water first is that right?


You can... but you need to make sure it's mixed in well. One of the advantages of racking is that you can rack onto the sugar/dextrose solution and have it mixed for you. If you're just doing it in the fermenter, you'll need a sanitised spoon to mix and to be careful you don't disturb the yeast sediment too much.


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## Peaka (30/10/08)

Cool thanks Goofinder, i will be trying that I think.


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## flattop (30/10/08)

Problem with racking in the primary is getting the sweet solution mixed well with the beer without disturbing the yeast cake, otherwise you will get a cloudy beer and a possible re-ignition of the primary fermentation before bottling, you would probably have to wait until the whole shebang settled again.
I like SJW's process of racking into the solution and then bottling straight up, it makes sense, no disturbing the yeast and a probable even distribution of the sugar.
Downside, extra cleaning and sterilization of the secondary fermenter and hose


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## Goofinder (30/10/08)

Racking to bulk prime is definitely my preferred option (and the only way I've ever done it), even though there is extra sanitation involved. For the sake of <$20 for a jerry can, tap and some hose there's really no reason not to go this way. Better yet, grab a pair of jerry cans and you can have a brew in primary (fermenter), one in secondary (jerry can) and a spare for priming.

But if you must, you can do it in the fermenter as described above.


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## buttersd70 (30/10/08)

If primary is finished, it won't re-ignite. If its finished, its finished. Adding the priming sugar will make fermentation start again....but its not going to happen in 5 minutes. Plenty of time to get it bottled, just don't leave it sitting around.

That being said, I rack all beers, always.


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## Jase71 (30/10/08)

SJW said:


> I will even throw in a few roadies of what ever is on tap at the time.



Free face to face advice and beers to boot, now that's a good value deal for the novocastrains.


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## flattop (30/10/08)

Ok if primary is finished then it means the yeast is finished, if the yeast is finished then it won't go off at all in the secondary.
Therefore, because yeast does go off in the secondary then it can't be completely exhausted in the primary....there must be good yeast left, just dormant or slow.
The sugar in the bottles and the stir up from the bottling kicks it in the guts.
Agreed if you don't let it sit then the fermentation will rekindle in the bottle instead of the fermenter.


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## buttersd70 (30/10/08)

flattop said:


> Ok if primary is finished then it means the yeast is finished, if the yeast is finished then it won't go off at all in the secondary.
> Therefore, because yeast does go off in the secondary then it can't be completely exhausted in the primary....there must be good yeast left, just dormant or slow.
> The sugar in the bottles and the stir up from the bottling kicks it in the guts.
> Agreed if you don't let it sit then the fermentation will rekindle in the bottle instead of the fermenter.



When I said it was finished, I didn't mean the yeast was dead.....if there is no sugar for it to consume, it will go dormant. If you feed it sugar again, it will start again. But it's yeast, not a bloody whippet. It won't jump out of the fermenter and run around the yard as soon as you give it some food. It will have a _lag _time. It won't start fermenting again in five minutes, it probably won't even have too much more activity in the space of a couple of hours. If it did, you could prime your bottles and drink it the next morning. Which you can't. How long does a bottle take to carbonate? 3 days to a month, depending on the yeast strain, the priming adjunct, the chemical composition of the remaining dextrins and other long chain saccharides, the pH of the beer, the health of the yeast, how many life cycles it has gone through, its alcohol tolerence, and several other factors.

<_<


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## Brewtus (31/10/08)

I started with a sugar hopper. Crap.
I did the lollies, better.
I bulk primed, never to go back. (Ok I did use them once when I could not fit all my beer in the 2ndry so did 2 bottles)

Carb drops are for beginners, move on.


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