# Is there a good ' cheap' AG brew?



## Nick667 (25/7/16)

Is there such a thing as a cheap all grain brew that is really yummy or even mildly delicious that doesn't cost much?
Maybe a smash beer with one or two grains and one hop.
Possible???
Not???


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## Kingy (25/7/16)

I like brewing coopers pale ale up fairly regularly. Costs about $70 for me to make 92 litres. Smash beers are good to if you don't go overboard with hops.


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## Vini2ton (25/7/16)

Joe White Ale, Joe White Caramalt, Super Pride and Coopers bottle yeast. Yum.


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/7/16)

Vini2ton said:


> Joe White Ale, Joe White Caramalt, Super Pride and Coopers bottle yeast. Yum.


Yep Nice and simple

90-95% Ale malt
5-10 % Med Xtal

Bitter to about 35IBU with S/Pride or POR or EKG/Fuggles

Decent yeast


About as easy as it gets and hard to **** up


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## Adr_0 (25/7/16)

why don't you harvest yeast? Examples:
- Coopers
- Guiness Extra Stout
- Paulaner

Really, if you can harvest yeast and get dried malt extract to build this up to a good volume you are off to a good start.

Hopping is the most expensive past this. Wheat beers need the least hops, but as above an aussie pale ale or lager of some sort is probably the next best - good luck harvesting a lager yeast though.

And then quantity... if you brew 100L then 90g of hops will go into one wheat beer and you can buy grain by the bag full (25kg...).


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## MartinOC (25/7/16)

Do you want cheap beer or quality beer? 

You can always achieve cheap beer by choosing cheap ingredients & cutting corners, scrimping & saving here & there, but are you after something you'd actually want to drink?

Or are you just after a dirt-cheap alcohol-hit? If so, NZ has legal home-distillation laws that might serve your purpose better.

Choice is yours....


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## wereprawn (25/7/16)

Most ag brews are cheap. Beers with a lot of hops or novel ingredients can get a bit expensive but you should get local grain cheap. Gladfields ect. If i use Aussie malt and ...say....50g of hops I can brew 20 litres of some very nice beers for $15-$20. Can't see it being any different for you especially as you have great malt, hops and water over there .

Edit- Have a sqiz at the recipe DB. Most beers on the DB are quite simple.


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/7/16)

Nick667 said:


> *Maybe a smash beer with one or two grains and one hop.*
> Possible???
> Not???


Some of the best beers you can make.

Also gives you a good base to work up from and learn how different ingredients work


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## AJS2154 (25/7/16)

I agree with Kingy. Go look at the Coopers AG recipe in the recipe DB. You can brew that as a very cost effective beer, get good at it and then just change the hops to give some variety.

Take some effort and clean your yeast after a brew and the yeast is almost free too. Can't go wrong.


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## Rocker1986 (25/7/16)

All grain is the cheapest of all brewing methods in regard to ingredients. Most of my AG brews are around $15-$20 for 21 litre batches, a couple of bucks more for 25 litre batches. There are exceptions of course for specific recipes, but otherwise it's cheap as. I buy grains in bulk and mill them myself, generally use high AA% hops for bittering so I don't use as many, and get practically free yeast from harvesting and re-using it. I'm always very happy with how my beers turn out.

I just made up a recipe for a brew day on Saturday as an experiment of approx. 90% Maris Otter and 5% each medium crystal and Munich II (usual pale ale malt bill), single hopped with Super Galena at 60, 10 and flameout to about 38IBUs, free US-05 yeast (harvested), and it came to almost $18 total cost for a 21 litre batch. An ESB I brewed a couple of weekends back came to about $16 for 21 litres.

So yeah, basically to answer your question you can brew great tasting AG beers that don't cost the earth. :beerbang:


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## AJS2154 (25/7/16)

That pale ale recipe sounds good, Rocker. I bet you have dialled that in now mate. I use the Coopers recipe the same way, and just experiment with hops. Great to make a little library of the same base beer, different hops. What a fun hobby!


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## Rocker1986 (25/7/16)

AJS2154 said:


> That pale ale recipe sounds good, Rocker. I bet you have dialled that in now mate. I use the Coopers recipe the same way, and just experiment with hops. Great to make a little library of the same base beer, different hops. What a fun hobby!


Thanks mate! I have no idea what the Super Galena will taste like as late additions; I've used it for bittering in the past but not later in the boil, but yeah the malt bill is pretty much standard for my American style pale ales. Bit of tinkering initially but I find it a decent base for experimenting with different hops, or simply brewing recipes that have turned out well before too.


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## MHB (25/7/16)

Malt Liquor, buy that man a 40...
M


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## Benn (25/7/16)

Froached Eggs; about $1.20 per person
...and Dr Smurtos Golden Ale, cheap and fit for all seasons.


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## Danscraftbeer (25/7/16)

My cheapest beers are when I harvest yeast. Especially when making lagers the yeast can be as much as all the other ingredients.
Roughly speaking my all grain work out around $8 a slab worth. Or $16 a keg. A low carb beer can be less like $6 a slab equivalent. 
Then a stout I just made more around $18 dollars a slab worth. - $36 for 19lt.
That's just ingredients. I cant calculate what the gas and electricity expenses are per brew though. I cant think it would be as much as the ingredients though.


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## Midnight Brew (25/7/16)

Three ways to make all grain beer for a decent price.

1. Buy in bulk. 
Buy a vacuum sealer and seal and store hops in freezer. Buy your grain in bulk and store in airtight containers unmilled.

2. Re-use yeast.
Many methods too this one that span from storing yeast cake to freezing. Plenty of info about here on AHB. This can be your biggest saving on ingredients you can make.

3. See your brewing costs as investments.
Buy quality gear that will last, cheap way isn't always the best way. A grain mill will cost you a few hundred dollars but being able to store grain and mill at demand will save you heaps. Setting up fermentation temperature control is a necissity in my opinion, the quality of the beer is so much more superior then that of the old uncontrolled ambient brew. Are these things really expensive if they're gonna save you money and improve your beer?


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## Zorco (25/7/16)

+1 MHB. That's a rock solid answer, No brew gear, no investment, great quality. 1 or 2 fermenters and a ferment fridge for free when you're lucky. Doesn't take up all your space, forget cleaning, no heating costs, no burn risks.

Dial in sanitation, then go with Midnight Brew on yeast reuse.

You want to still play with beer.....No wuckas
- change your yeast up
- change your ferment temp
- dry hop universe of options
- this list gets longer.....

And that perception of coin... run with $40 on the cube...compare to $15 on AG yourself.

$15 ingredients
$8 on your gas
$3 on cleaning and sanitation
$20 on brewing (not kegging) hardware investment (what's fair? 1 brew a month: $240/year?)
6 hours of labour

So a savings of negative $5 by doing it all yourself. Plus those 6 hours when you could be pursuing or achieving sex.

That's some sort of back of the napkin calc.....


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## AJS2154 (25/7/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Plus those 6 hours when you could be pursuing or achieving sex.
> 
> That's some sort of back of the napkin calc.....


Plus the 6 hours you could be achieving sex???? Do you think you might just be over estimating that a little? Let me readjust that calculation. Pursuing sex = 6 hours. Achieving sex = 6 minutes. 

Beer is a better investment of your time. At least you can't drink your investment in 6 minutes.


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## Zorco (25/7/16)

Pursuing: When you don't have a sexual other
Achieving: When you have a sexual other and actually convince them you're not repulsive for 6 minutes....


Then back to banging beers....
:beerbang:


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## Nullnvoid (25/7/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Pursuing sex = 6 hours. Achieving sex = 6 minutes.


6 minutes??? Bloody hell, you are a stayer aren't you!!


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## Rocker1986 (25/7/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Achieving: When you have a sexual other and actually convince them you're not repulsive for 6 minutes....


Dosing them with beer helps with that. My relationship hasn't hit that stage yet. Definitely more sex than brewing taking place. :lol:


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## wereprawn (25/7/16)

Rocker1986 said:


> Dosing them with beer helps with that. My relationship hasn't hit that stage yet. Definitely more sex than brewing taking place. :lol:


 Your gonna end up crippling the poor lass if you make those 6 hour sessions a regular thing.


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## rude (26/7/16)

AJS2154 said:


> Plus the 6 hours you could be achieving sex???? Do you think you might just be over estimating that a little? Let me readjust that calculation. Pursuing sex = 6 hours. Achieving sex = 6 minutes.
> 
> Beer is a better investment of your time. At least you can't drink your investment in 6 minutes.


Ah the old victor lawn mower 2 stroke

Why not sex while you make beer doggy porter anyone


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## Matplat (26/7/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> And that perception of coin... run with $40 on the cube...compare to $15 on AG yourself.
> 
> $15 ingredients
> $8 on your gas
> ...


How do you manage to spend that much on gas and cleaning??? I have set up my system for now, and certainly don't plan to be spending that much on equipment annually... plus it's more like 2-3 brews per month....


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## Bribie G (26/7/16)

I'd agree on sub $20 for ingredients for most simple beers such as an English Bitter or Aussie pale if buying ingredients in bulk and reusing yeast up to 5 generations.

However using the urn for an hour and a half (including ramping to strike temperature) at 20 cents per Kwh = around 75 cents, and my perc and starsan supplies last for up to a year.. maybe 30 cents per brew.

As to amortising the costs of equipment, however, I'd rather not go there. haha.


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## Dave70 (26/7/16)

Nick667 said:


> Is there such a thing as a cheap all grain brew that is really yummy or even mildly delicious that doesn't cost much?
> Maybe a smash beer with one or two grains and one hop.
> Possible???
> Not???


Why skimp on grains? Why limit yourself to dull as dogshit SMASH beer?
All base malts are roughly the same price, spec malts are a only few cents dearer. 
Splash out on a suitable bottle conditioned beer, like Frankenheimer or Weihenstephaner and harvest the dregs in a sanitized jar (pinch one from the neighbors recycling bin), go a 50 / 50 mix of pale and pils malt, save more money on expensive DME by drawing off some wort and watering it down to around 1.020 to make a starter, use a tiny amount of Hallertauer to about 14 IBU and you've got a very respectable heffe - providing you control the ferment temps. 
Collect some timber from the bush or roadside to build a fire for the boil.
Re use the yeast 50 times.


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## GibboQLD (26/7/16)

Dave70 said:


> Re use the yeast 50 times.


Or just keep using it indefinitely and call it your house strain!


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## Zorco (26/7/16)

Not one like, nadda, zip, zilch Edit: thanks Moad :icon_cheers:

The old Cosdog did a bit of the ye'old debating and can take nearly all points of view as his own..... for fun. 

All for the punch line....which was gold. Sexy Gold. But me feelz this need to say..........I only set up the play. It isn't my brewing philo pastry if you wit me.

:lol: h34r: h34r:


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## Lethaldog (26/7/16)

Good and cheap depends on the brewer, if you don't clean and sanitize properly the it can get expensive tipping it down the drain, any AG beer is pretty cheap in comparison to what you would buy and most will be pretty drinkable but the more experience you have the better it will get !


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## Weizguy (26/7/16)

I'd agree with MHB re the malt liquor, but it would be very expensive here, due to our alcohol excise laws.

Here's a link to a recipe  for Rogue's "Daddy's little helper", the Rogue Malt Liquor.

I made a cream ale earlier this year, for under $1 per litre, and that was using expensive flaked rice. Would be even cheaper with flaked corn or polenta.
Seems to me that American Cream Ale is just a lower alcohol version of Malt liquor.

Depends what you like. German-style wheat beer can be cheap enough if you use Aus malt and wheat. Not much hops required. But always, ALWAYS use a genuine weizen yeast, for best flavours.


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## Zorco (26/7/16)

Dukes of error upon me. Chalk me up for a shame face MHB.

Malt liquor is not _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.


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## dr K (27/7/16)

Oettinger


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## pat_00 (28/7/16)

I brew my old man a bastardised kolsch occasionally. His favourite beer is cascade premium, so I don't bother getting fancy.

Pilsner malt,a handful of vienna, bugger all hops and ferment with US05 at low temp. He likes it and I find it pretty drinkable given it's had a month or so of cold ageing.


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## PoN (28/7/16)

I dont really care too much for cost, I dont harvest yeast or buy grains in bulk.

A 20L batch for me usually works out to around $27-$32. $5-7 for yeast, $4-5 per kg for milled grain, $7.90 for a 90g pack of hops.

At the moment I have a heap of left over hops to use up so really all I am buying for my brews is grain and yeast.

Still its about half the cost of buying a carton from dan murphys


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## Rocker1986 (28/7/16)

I should note that I don't buy grains in bulk purely because of the cost factor. It's also more convenient to be able to mill grains as needed, and adjust the crush to suit my needs (i.e. more control), than buy grains per batch and have them milled elsewhere. But to each their own. B)


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## Hpal (28/7/16)

There are hundreds of all-grain recipes that are cheap, simple and amazing. Cheap doesn't have to mean mediocre beer. Try a Saison, a shade over $20 for 20L. Great tasting beer. I'm doing another one soon and you can be drinking it in 7 days if kegging.
81% Pilsner malt, or really any base malt you have like Ale etc. Doesn't matter, it's such a broad style.
15% wheat malt
4% carapils (if you don't have this, leave it out)
A bittering hop such as Norther Brewer, Magnum or whatever 18 IBU 40 mins
A noble aroma hop at flameout at 0.5g/L

mash 65 degrees for 60 mins
Boil 70 mins, no chill

Ferment 25 degrees with Belle Saison dry yeast.
OG 1.044
FG 1.003
Alc 5.3%

This is a cracker.


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## Frothy1 (28/7/16)

What kind of beer do you like Nick667?

Brewing your own is an interesting journey of finding out what ingredients you like in a beer.


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## Nick667 (29/7/16)

Ive been brewing some really great APAs and a really out there new age amber that is delicious with Riwaka and Fuggles.
Prices for me range from $NZ28 - $55 and I do get the odd bad batch now and them witch ramps the price up on average.
I was just curious to know how low the price can go and still have a decent flavour and balance with around 4%abv.
Appreciate the replies.


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