# Australian Bitter Ale: BJCP 6.1 [AABC]



## Bribie G (4/8/17)

I'm just rebooting this topic as the old thread had got a bit cluttered, and in any case was started before the release of Bronzed Brews by Peter Symons and of course the current availability of Whitelabs WLP059 Melbourne Ale.

So this year, 2017, is the first year that a genuine attempt at an Australian Bitter Ale can be entered into the comps this season. And here's the problem:

Australian Bitter Ale was included in the BJCP guide a few years ago and was greeted (including by myself) with a certain degree of derision. I don't know if Korev had any input in those days, however in light of his research and book, a lot of the history and style characteristics set out in the BJCP guide are pretty accurate, but some of them are now looking a bit dodgy. So there is a bit of a conflict in some areas and I'd guess that a fair few of the "Bronzed Brew" beers entered as an Australian Bitter Ale could well be marked as "not to style".

For example:
_Definitive Australian style, evolved 
directly from colonial era Pale Ale/Sparkling Ale as
crystal malt was introduced during early 20th 
century. *[Symons has found that not much crystal was used] *Originated independently of English Bitter, _

_and remained a bottled style exclusively. *[dead wrong, much of the beer over the bar especially NSW was draught, and it was lagers that tended to be bottled as a lot of the ales didn't do too well bottled] *
Developed as a narrow style, typified by a handful of State-
based brands, using a high proportion of cane 
sugar, high-alpha domestic hops, and standard 
Australian ale yeast (originally isolated 1888 at 
Victoria Brewery in Melbourne) . 
Dominant bottled style by mid-century, with major brands exported. 
Converted to lager yeast during late 20th century, 
as megabrewers standardized production with draught 
lagers. Modern Bitter remains by far Australia’s 
biggest selling packaged beer style, and following 
draught release in 1992, market leader Victoria 
Bitter now accounts for one quarter of total 
Australian beer sales. 
_
The BJCP guide also basically _mandate_s the use of Pride of Ringwood, whereas I believe that most Lion brews (and their predecessors, and even some CUB predecessors such as Reschs and Tooths) wouldn't have had access to this hop that was bred by CUB. For example XXXX still uses Cluster and in Beer the Beautiful truth site, most Lion brands seem to use Superpride developed by HPA.

Varieties of Tasmanian golden cluster and EKG style hops seemed to be fairly common pre-Prides.

A bit late this year, but how exactly does one provide input to the BJCP to update a style description and does anyone know whether Australian Bitter Ale is up for a revamp?


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## Coodgee (4/8/17)

I know this is not really to your main point but that beer the beautiful truth is not always accurate - if you look at rogers it says the only hop addition is east kent goldings. 

http://www.beerthebeautifultruth.com/the-world-of-beer/the-beautiful-beers/little-creatures-rogers/


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## technobabble66 (4/8/17)

OT, but... ^^ tried it recently, coodgee? I'd suspect it might only have EKG in it now. The last clone I did is mainly EKG and it's still too fruity compared to the real one. I think it *used* to have cascade & galaxy in it. 

Back on topic, sorry Bribie but I have very little to add to this - I know nothing about BJCP or Aussie Bitter. However, I'm extremely interested in learning more about Aussie Bitter, both as a (newly) defined style and the history of it. So I'm definitely following this one eagerly!


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## Coodgee (4/8/17)

technobabble66 said:


> OT, but... ^^ tried it recently, coodgee? I'd suspect it might only have EKG in it now. The last clone I did is mainly EKG and it's still too fruity compared to the real one. I think it *used* to have cascade & galaxy in it.



really? I have Rogers at my local bowls club every wednesday/thursday night at quiz night. For mine it has a classic citrus american hop aroma and especially taste to it. I'm going to have to seriously reassess my understanding of East Kent Goldings if that's all that's in it. 

(apologies for the thread hijack)


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## technobabble66 (4/8/17)

I wonder if EKG would go well in an Aussie Bitter...

(See, back on topic! [emoji1])


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## technobabble66 (4/8/17)

Hey Bribie. What would you suggest for an Aussie Bitter?
Both in terms of a specific recipe (I'm keen to see what others are doing with their 059 [emoji6]), and as general ingredient guidelines?

I'm really not sure what concept to have as a guide for this one. I've seen the old Tooth's Ale recipe, so I think I was loosely basing my concept/recipe on that. 
I currently thinking to go roughly 50% ale, 33% Pils, 2.5% med xtal, 10% White sugar, bit of acidulated. Hops were going to be PoR & Crystal(for spiciness). 
Any other recipes out there?

I think until some of us have brewed a few beers with 059, it might be a little hard to understand (for me, anyway) a style heavily based around it.


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## dent (4/8/17)

I brewed an ABA years back that was pretty much inspired by the new AABC guideline - got 2nd place state wise. I really enjoyed the style as a showcase for subtle Australian hops and a super clean malt profile.


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## Coodgee (4/8/17)

technobabble66 said:


> Hey Bribie. What would you suggest for an Aussie Bitter?
> Both in terms of a specific recipe (I'm keen to see what others are doing with their 059 [emoji6]), and as general ingredient guidelines?
> 
> I'm really not sure what concept to have as a guide for this one. I've seen the old Tooth's Ale recipe, so I think I was loosely basing my concept/recipe on that.
> ...



Seems unlikely they would mix pils and ale malt back in the day. You'd think it would be 100% cheap and plentiful malt of the era


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## Bribie G (4/8/17)

I would go for a base malt such as BB pale, about 20% Vienna, 20% raw sugar and if adjusting the colour use either a slight touch of Joe White roasted barley (which is not really like UK or Gladfield) or even use some caramel - Parisian Essence as suggested in some Bronzed Brews recipes.

There was a reason that Aussie beer used to be called "The Amber Nectar" and not "The blonde dry super crisp pale nectar".
Bitter to around 30 IBU with a mix of EKG and Cluster and use the WLP 059.

Coodgee, do yourself a favour and buy the book.. the history of malt in Australia is very interesting, for example large amounts of a malt from six row barley called "Cape" were used in the earlier part of the 20th Century.


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## Randai (4/8/17)

I think EKG goes well in most beers. So yes it would go well in an Aussie bitter...


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## technobabble66 (4/8/17)

Coodgee said:


> Seems unlikely they would mix pils and ale malt back in the day. You'd think it would be 100% cheap and plentiful malt of the era


True. However, I assumed the clone recipe Peter Symons estimated (more like 33:33:20 of Aleils:sugar) might've used that ratio of Aleils as a mimic of whatever malt he thought was the malt of the day back in 1916.

That combo looks good, Bribie. I'm afraid i'm still a little hesitant to go straight for the 20% sugar. 
I obviously need to do a LOT more reading to cover some flavour & aroma descriptors as to what i should be targeting.

Hey, what about replacing the maize in the Tooths Ale clone with oats? Sneak in a little 8% oats, maybe?


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## Bribie G (4/8/17)

I bought 2 kilos of raw sugaz from Aldi yesterday. 
The use of sugar was only partly to do with saving money on ingredients, it was more about getting bigger brew lengths from scarce and expensive equipment that was mostly imported


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## Danscraftbeer (4/8/17)

Nup. All one malt for me. Local stuff. Cant get any more Aussie than fresh malted grain. yummy


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## Danscraftbeer (4/8/17)

As for any thoughts on the Style Guidelines. Maybe it needs rethinking a little. The history is what they could get to brew with at the time.
Maybe a more modernized version considering now to then etc. 
$0.02


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## DJ_L3ThAL (5/8/17)

Gonna do this as a first WLP059 batch "starter" for a Reschs XXX or Tooths XXX


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## rude (5/8/17)

dent said:


> I brewed an ABA years back that was pretty much inspired by the new AABC guideline - got 2nd place state wise. I really enjoyed the style as a showcase for subtle Australian hops and a super clean malt profile.



Sounds good Dent
Did you go with POR ?
Did you go with an Aussie maltster ?
I must look up the AABC guideline
If you dont mind I would love to see ya recipe
I have only done the British Bitters but dont mind a hit of the POR now & again
Cheers Rude


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## GalBrew (5/8/17)

I was under the impression that you can't get PoR or Cluster anymore? It's going to make brewing those Bronzed Brews a bit hard.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (5/8/17)

Most of the recipes in bronzed brews quote EKG and Cluster, not much mention of PoR when I skimmed the recipes.
There would be suitable substitutes anyway I sure and it's not like any of us tasted the real deal to know [emoji23]


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## GalBrew (5/8/17)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Most of the recipes in bronzed brews quote EKG and Cluster, not much mention of PoR when I skimmed the recipes.
> There would be suitable substitutes anyway I sure and it's not like any of us tasted the real deal to know [emoji23]



Quite right. PoR is not mentioned once in the book (they are all NSW beers and mostly pre PoR anyhow). It's all cluster and EKG.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/8/17)

Varieties mentioned for planting in 1883 across the ditch include Golding, Mathon, White, Grape, Coopers White and /or 'Jones. Suspect Lion (Secombes) would have had access to these. Article: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WDT18830731.2.10


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## good4whatAlesU (5/8/17)

I contacted the kiwi hop researchers some time ago and they had nothing left of the heritage varieties - all bred out/ lost.
Only pure strains obtainable from the UK now with great difficulty (need deep pockets to import).


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## manticle (5/8/17)

Bribie G said:


> I'm just rebooting this topic as the old thread had got a bit cluttered, and in any case was started before the release of Bronzed Brews by Peter Symons and of course the current availability of Whitelabs WLP059 Melbourne Ale.
> 
> So this year, 2017, is the first year that a genuine attempt at an Australian Bitter Ale can be entered into the comps this season. And here's the problem:
> 
> ...


Email kristen England with your contention and references.

Try google but also [email protected]


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## Bribie G (5/8/17)

GalBrew said:


> I was under the impression that you can't get PoR or Cluster anymore? It's going to make brewing those Bronzed Brews a bit hard.


Heaps of cluster. Just not grown here.


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## Midnight Brew (5/8/17)

Also worth noting that produce from the Corranderrk Station won some awards in 1881 at the Melbourne international exhibition, this station was very profitable for the government producing a significant amount of hops.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/8/17)

The Victorian wild whitebines AJ80 sent me out of the bush would be interesting to get DNA testing to try and match them up with a heritage variety. I suspect the DNA (PCR?) analysis would be much cheaper than importing from scratch.


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## TidalPete (5/8/17)

Jumping in at the deep end sugar-wise & brewing an 1894 XXXK Pale Ale Clone (page 269) next brewday using the 059.
25% sugar!  WOW!
Recipe calls for that percentage in white sugaz but am finding it awkward to get the recommended EBC & so I'll be using my No2 Invert (65 EBC) home-made from raw sugaz.
Not too worried about the style police as I don't do comps.

PS ---- When are we going to get our old Smilies back??? This lot suck *bigtime!*


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## technobabble66 (5/8/17)

Whoa. 25%?! Balls of steel! Very keen to hear how it goes. 

Fwiw, I'm pretty sure there's an excerpt of an old report from the early 20th century (quoted in Bronzed Brews?) on Melbourne #1 yeast (meant to be WLP-059) where the author mentions coming across multiple beers done with up to 50% raw sugar (!?!!). [emoji32]

So really, TP, you're playing it pretty safe. [emoji57]
Maybe you should have a ballsier crack at 40%? [emoji6]


Agree, I miss the old smileys. There's some good new ones, but there's a lot of the old ones that can't be subbed for by these newer ones.


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## TidalPete (5/8/17)

technobabble66 said:


> Whoa. 25%?! Balls of steel! Very keen to hear how it goes.
> 
> Agree, I miss the old smileys. There's some good new ones, but there's a lot of the old ones that can't be subbed for by these newer ones.



No balls of steel here techno, am retired with plenty of time, grain, hops, etc. 
Can't say I've seen that 50% sugar recipe (link appreciated if possible?) but AAMOF I've already done a 1917 Tooths XXX a year ago using a donated Melbourne No1 yeast that was probably in its 1000th generation. LOL!
That recipe had 15.8% sugaz so another 9.0% odd shouldn't be too much of a gamble fingers crossed. 

Off-Topic ---- Really wish they could would bring the old Smilies back. 
*AUSSIE*HOMEBREWER seems to be turning into yet another fine example of a bland 'ole Yankee beer forum. 
Not that I have anything against the Yanks but here we are.


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## manticle (5/8/17)

Should be able to say what you need to with Queen's English anyway. Smilies are for those who can't articulate properly.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (5/8/17)

[emoji45][emoji188][emoji481]


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## GalBrew (5/8/17)

Bribie G said:


> Heaps of cluster. Just not grown here.



Got a 'dealer'?


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## indica86 (5/8/17)

Hmmm, threw down a Tooths with the Melbourne Ale, I'll have to grab some Cluster and EKG to give this a whirl.

I love EKG, such a lovely bittering hop.


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## Danscraftbeer (5/8/17)

The total old smiley archive is broken. Lost! 

 << See that is just ridiculous. Yet the old laughing (more modest subtle) smiley is a humble token given when words would be tedious. Is gone! Replaced by this hideous over indulged example. 


Oh Shit back to the topic! 
I say for Aussie stye to be of Aussie origins. I think that could also end up in the New World category but why try to go back in time? 
Clinging to the monarchy? I say any Aussie hops. Aussie Malt. Sugars if you want to. All Aussie made makes sense to me.


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## technobabble66 (5/8/17)

Minor point: quite a few English bitters/ ESBs use styrian goldings. Or other European ingredients. 

I do kinda agree with your suggestion, but it's also kinda restrictive and not necessarily consistent with many other styles (though definitely true for many). 
I'd agree there should definitely be an emphasis towards Aussie ingredients, but I'm not wedded to it all being strictly AU. 
2c


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## Bribie G (5/8/17)

GalBrew said:


> Got a 'dealer'?


https://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3214

I was wrong. 2017 Aus crop.


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## technobabble66 (5/8/17)

TidalPete said:


> ... (link appreciated if possible?) ...


http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/e1fc4d_7856c7885e094ff5a1eb607ca643ac5d.pdf

"... known throughout Australia as “Melbourne No.1” had proved itself the yeast every brewer was waiting for. *It has the ability to ferment worts with 50% of the gravity composed of raw cane sugar, without the slightest sign of weakness*; further, it is of such vigorous habit that pure cultures remain pure after re-sowing in brews covering a period of months ..."

What. The. Hell. does a 50% sugar beer taste like?!? 
And what do you do with the other 50%?? (oats? ... kidding!) (i'm assuming it's probably a case of "**** it, lets just throw some shit into the mash/kettle and make booze", but hey, maybe this yeast does something magical to sugar!).


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## Danscraftbeer (5/8/17)

Cider Beer. The old but realized megaswill. Punchy with small hop bills.
Less is better sometimes. Then who knows how high this yeast goes.


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## TidalPete (6/8/17)

Thanks for that techno, & now that you've jogged my memory I remember reading that bit recently.
I was trying to find the actual date as to when Melbourne No1 was first used in Australia & by which brewery but am still unsure ATM as at least one recipe puts the date at February 1888 as opposed to post 1910 as mentioned at the start of your linked article.
Happy to be corrected here as it's probably just a typo & who am I to nitpick? 

Surely nobody in that day & age (or at present) would seriously contemplate adding 50% sugar to a recipe except for the purpose testing a yeast's fermentation limits?


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## Bribie G (6/8/17)

30% beers are commonplace and can be quite drinkable. Try Wells Bombardier or Cascade Premium Lager.
And not at all cidery.
The cidery urban myth comes from generations of supermarket kits brewed in Uncle Stan's tool shed.

I actually got a bootleg sample of no 1 last year and did a 40 percenter and was surprised how malty and smooth it turned out.
I wanted to breed up a decent yeast cake so I chucked it into an AG APA, turned out a bit meh.


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## shacked (6/8/17)

I'm going to have a crack at something close to this category next weekend. Triple batch: 80% pale, 10% sugarz, 8% flaked wheat, 2% dark crystal. Super pride @ FWH for 25 IBUish, then one batch with 009, one with 059 and one with 1099 (Whitbread). 

As an aside and not to style but I'm going to serve one on cask for a brew club meet up.


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## TheWiggman (9/8/17)

I've brewed a number of Aussie lagers with ~30% dextrose by extract (about 650g in a 19l 5% brew) and to be honest wouldn't have it any other way. I started at the lower end, at around the 10% mark like you're suggesting shacked, and found it to be in no man's land with a little too much malt and not the right balance for a crisp lager. Though if you're saying 10% by weight that's a bit less than by extract. Personally I'd go harder with it to see the impact that it has.
I should note that I'm not saying we should all use more dextrose, but like all ingredients if you use it use it with purpose.


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