# Final Count, 25hop Additions



## jayse (22/4/04)

She's done.
Final count 30 hop aditions or there abouts.
o.g 1.070. 
Even with the whirlpool it took a while to clear.Iam leaving it in the cool room over nite and racking it off the crud in the morning.

The diffence in the malt taste in the wort to the last few is huge its a lovely toasted pale malt type maltliness with nice biscuity flavours but not of the wheat bix type but a very nice malt flavour.
Iam very impressed.
While thinking about getting right into the Zen mode with this beer i also decided to do a small decoction while i was waiting for the mash to finish.


The recipe was basically this.
pretty free form on the hop front just toss some in every few mintues.

JAYSE'S YAKIMA CHIEF DEMON ALE.
==============================
5.5KG JW ALE MALT 5 EBC
1KG IMC MUNICH MALT 11 EBC
25OG MELANOIDIN MALT 40 EBC
250 G WHEAT MALT
200G CARAROMA 300EBC


25g simcoe 80 mins 35 ibuMINS

7 G AMARILLO AND 7 G CASCADE at 45-40-35-30-25-20-15 and 5 mins.
i spread them out into around on average 1 g a mintue as much as i could be bothered too
30G EACH AT FLAME OUT.


wyeast 1272

O.G 1070 IBU you can calculate it if you likebut somewhere around 80 ibu.

================================================


mmmm this is gunna rock.
Just had to share my day brewing with everyone.
Jayse


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## JasonY (22/4/04)

Looks like a rippa Jayse, may be one of those brews you can't repeat because you were adding stuff all the time . Has anyone actually started drinking a brew with Amarillo in it yet?  Lot of people chucking it in brews but I haven't seen a first hand review yet.

What are the Meladonian and CaraAroma malts? Haven't tried these ones yet? 

Drinking an APA now and put down an ESB today with some target & challenger hops .... new hops for me so hoping it will be good.


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## jayse (22/4/04)

Get some of these malts jase and use them in your APA or whatever.
cararoma is a crystal malt but has a wicked roasty edge and a lot of aroma. the crystal malt sweetness is also much nicer than dark crystal malt. its 350 ebc
The melanoidin is a toasted pale malt and to quote wes again 'its like munich malt on steriods'.
Said to give a decocted type malt flavour in the same vien as munich.

it my first time using melanoidin and because of my little decoction i actaully did i wonder if i'll know where the malt taste in this beer comes from but it'll be damn fine thats for sure.

Try rearranging you APAS' to add these grains and also the amarillo of course.

Oh and yeah i couldn't replicate the actuall hopping ever, as i can't even remember.
all i remember is a big pot of hops and me chucking some in constantly and sometimes in huge lots and sometimes in tiny lots.

jayse


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## joecast (23/4/04)

the best thign about all those hop additions.....

makes the boil fly by.
joe


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## jayse (23/4/04)

Yeah it was great fun untill my scales went hay wire on me and decided that they didn't want to measure anymore.
They have done it on me before but ussually takes a day to get its head around what its doing but last nite i needed accurate measurements so i went and got myself a back up set.
lucky it was late nite shopping and harvey norman is just down the road.
I was expecting to pay through the roof but i ended up getting one unit for $60 but it only does 2g interval unlike my other one which does 1 g intervals.
it also goes up to 5kg the same as my other one.

For anyone interested in the recipe iam sure hop additions every ten mintues will do.
I just measured up the 5 mintues additions and tossed some of them in every mintue of so.

The wort does not taste nearly as hoppy as i was expecting but at 1.070 there is a lot of malt in it.
Just pitched a huge slurry of 1272 at 16c.



In getting with the Zen of this brew i also took all my gear out onto my verander then it started getting to windy and i new it would take all nite to boil down so i move the kettle back into the shed and had no further probs.
but trying to boil with low pressure three ring burners in the wind is useless.

All in all though it was a great brew day and givin me some more passion to put down a few more brews in the coming week.

Jayse


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## big d (23/4/04)

well done jayse
ya beat me by 30 grams of hop blend.
jaysony my 1st amarillo trial brew was cc,d on the 12th/4 so by my reckoning on my next days off(monday) i will gas it up.
i read your post raced outside an poured off a small glass to smell/taste.
wow this stuff is un real and that is on its own.tasted the amarillo/cascade version tonight after work.2nd day fermenting ,cloudy but very heavy on the aroma and fruity taste.this brew is unreal thanks to input from jayse and bonk.

reckon if you love cascade you will go all out with amarillo.the super charged version of cascade(usa write up) 

cheers
big d the amarillo hophead B)


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## jayse (23/4/04)

The amarillos do add a whole new dimension.
Love them so far.
The hop blend ended up being 200g.
Because i was having a little trouble calculating how long the boil would be. At one stage I thought it was gunna take forever so I waited abit before I started chucking them in. Then once i started chucking them in it seemed to be boiling off quicker.
So i thought i wouldn't get all the hops in by the end so i started chucking in bigger additions thinking i was closer to the end then i ended up being.
So all the hops ended up going in with 10 minutes still left so i weighed up some more for the very end.

All in all that sounds all screwed up but i think it went great.
I did judge the boil length correctly i was just too paraniod i had not judged it properly.
Then reason it was harder to judge was because of the windy wether and the boil not being that consistent.
but like i said in the end i judged correctly and the brew come out swimmingly.

jayse


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## JasonY (23/4/04)

16deg pitch ... what temp do you run 1272 at ... is there a noticable difference, I have stuck to 20 for all min to date


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## jayse (23/4/04)

Only so low because theres a huge slurry from a primary in there now and it didn't take long to heat up to 18c.
16c is what it came out the cool room at after airating also.
I know it may take time to start fermenting but iam not to worried about that i just don't what the yeast going nuts.
I'll be happy fermenting at 20 as the yeast will bring it up to there no worries.

I still do not want to much of the fruity flavour this yeast gives. I want the yeast to take a relative back seat to the malt and hops.

If it doesn't get down to 1.015 i'll be dropping in some notingham.


jayse


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## wedge (19/5/04)

Whats this one like now Jayse?


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## jayse (19/5/04)

tasting great wedge i'll have it on tap for the june get together.
It doesn't seem to have any real lasting bitterness at the front or the back like you would expect its just packed full of hop and malt flavour.
The amarillo is very nice much like cascade but with out the spice, it is a much smoother flavour.
The amarillo go straight to the top of the favourite list.
I'll be brewing this beer again soon even before this one gets kegged.

My last brew was similar as this also but only 1.052 and half the hops. That is also tasting great.

Cheers Jayse


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## Doc (20/5/04)

This is going to be my next brew.
Ordered 50kg of base grain yesterday and 1kg of hops the day before that.

Have read the full thread at HBA and I'm excitied although 'cj in j' does seem *mad*.

I'm a bit worried about their observations of evaporation of this brew. As well as the obsession with these styles of beers. I think it will be a life changing brew. May take a couple to be able to master the zen parameters of becoming one with the brew though or as 'cj in j' says


> I don't become one with the hops, I become a hop



Even though this isn't the one, of a hop addition every minute from 60 minutes to 1, I think I will still have to create a hop addition check list so I don't get confused.  

*The Ultimate Hop Hourglass IPA* is absolute madness. Running the brew water the night before through a hop back to infuse the brew water with hops is absurd. On top of this (hopped brew water) it is mash hopped, first wort hopped, bittering hops added and then hops every minute for 60 minutes and finally then through a hopback. If the guy had a Randal then I'm sure he would use it from the tap to the glass also  

But do I want to try it. Sure do 

But I will do Jayse's Demon Ale first. Bring on the next brew day (June 5). Would love to brew it earlier, but family commitments this weekend, out of the country the weekend after (and I did a double brew day last weekend). Although it is very tempting to pull a sickie. mmmm maybe get a yeast starter going to night. I think I'm coming down with that cough/flu thing that is going around  

Doc


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## jayse (20/5/04)

The next one i do i'll try and take it to another level again but still not quite that insane. h34r: 
I see he has the same ideas on dry hopping as me ie 'never do it' and you can see this guy loves his hops and puts them in whenever it is concievably possible.
Before anyone arks up and says i love dry hopping remember putting them in hot water first is not the same as dry hopping. That would be called wet hopping wouldn't it. B) 

Doc i hope you get crook as a dog tonite and can't make work tommorow.  

Cheers Jayse


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## jayse (4/6/04)

Ok she's in the keg and gased up.  
Just had my first pint and iam ready for a nice lay down for the rest of the afternoon.
I have drunk at least a couple litres already from the fermentor but only small sips at a time and it tasted unreal from day one.

I wish i didn't have to go to work soon or i'd pour another, maybe i will anyway.

Anyway it is unreal and very hard to pick any stand out flavours as it is well rounded and very huge flavourful beer.  
It certainlly has lots of both malt and hop flavours but both are very balanced and the alcohol you can diffintly pick as being fairly high.
Actaully as i type i feel iamzzzzzzzzzzzzz good nite people. :lol:

It has a fair amount of sweetness but it is a very nice balancing sweetness and not worty etc. og was 1.070 and fg was 1.016
The amarillo hops are super smooth combined with simcoe for halve the bitterness at the start and the aroma is amazing.
It has got a great bitter after taste combined with some sweetness but it is not a bitter beer at all being that the balance is perfect.

I have only mildly carbed it up as you would expect and it is very very drinkable.
Enough pulling my own horn for now. all you Adelaide guys will have to come and enjoy it on the longweekend.



Cheers Jayse the demon aler :chug: 
ps i did go pour another pint while i was typing out this zzzzzzzz jeez how am i getting my PA to the gig this afternoon.


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## Doc (4/6/04)

Great to hear Jayse.
Have just finished measuring out the grain and about to crack it.
Brewing it tomorrow exactly as posted except using the White Labs not the Wyeast yeast.

Beers,
Doc


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## jayse (4/6/04)

Is that WLP 051?
I would like to try that and see if its any different as i have been hearing a lot lately all the WL equivalants are better than the wyeast ones.

have fun with all the hop additions. I just wieghed up 5 min lots and started chucking them in every minute or so. If you get the idea.

Cheers Jayse.


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## Doc (4/6/04)

No, WLP001 Calif. Ale Yeast.
It is the closest I have and is listed as an equiv for 1272.

All cracked, HLT on timer, MLT in position ready to brew.

Doc


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## jayse (4/6/04)

Cool from what i have been reading WLP051 must be closer.
No good to me though can't get much white labs here.

We can all call you a hop trickler as of tommorow.
Have fun.

Jayse


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## Doc (5/6/04)

Have dough'd in. 
Haven't seen the mash tun that full in a long time.
Had to dig out the paint stirrer and cordless drill to help me dough in. Starting mash temp is 66.5 so just hoping the cold morning doesn't reduce the mash temp too quickly (at least not in the first 45 mins).

Another update later.

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc (5/6/04)

It is in the fermenter. The first couple of bubbles have come through.
Overshot the gravity into the boiler by a couple of points.
Made the recipe as to Jayses of 25 litres when I usually do 23.4.
End of boil and into the fermenter. Hop sludge everywhere but filtered out. Got thank panty hose.
Have a couple of funny pictures of it if they come out.
Into the fermenter a couple of points above target even though I reduced the boil from 120 mins to 90 mins.
Will let you know how it all turns out.
And my assistant for the day works for Dominion Breweries in NZ so if it is a winner he will pitch it to DB's brewers. Go Jayse go.

Beers,
Doc


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## Jovial_Monk (5/6/04)

hmmmmmmm get together is next weekend, no?

might bottle my IPA tomorrow. it is bound to be boring, 23L of beer and only one hop addition, a mere 410g of Goldings, practically nothing!

If so it will be undercarbed and mebbe harsh from the 90g of whole goldings just shoved into the keg last Oct. i think it might be interesting though: it got mashed, by accident, at 74C insead of the planned 66C.

Just quietly, THIS WILL BE A RADICAL BEER!

Jovial Monk


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## big d (5/6/04)

yep next weekend jm is when it all begins.if your planning on going to jayses i wouldnt mind a trial drop or two.if not maybe at your shop  

410 g of goldings hey mmmmmm interesting.  

cheers
d


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## Jovial_Monk (5/6/04)

jayse said:


> Cool from what i have been reading WLP051 must be closer.
> No good to me though can't get much white labs here.
> 
> We can all call you a hop trickler as of tommorow.
> ...


 Quote/
Cool from what i have been reading WLP051 must be closer.
No good to me though can't get much white labs here.

We can all call you a hop trickler as of tommorow.
Have fun.

Jayse
/Unquote

Jayse, Jayse,Jayse,

Adelaide's best HBS has a wide range of White Labs yeasts available!
From July I will have 40 White Labs tubes available for whenever!


Jovial Monk


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## Doc (5/6/04)

After todays Demon Ale brew I think I may be worthy of trying the Arrogant Bastard clone from Home Brew Adventures.
Nothing like have many kegs full of high alcohol specialty beers to make them last longer  

Doc


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## Doc (6/6/04)

Here is a picture of the garden after emptying the boiler kettle.
Talk about hop pellet sludge. There was still a heap in the filter stockings too.

Doc


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## jayse (7/6/04)

Doc.
Welcome to the hop trickler club.
It was also impossible to get a clear wort from my kettle with the amount of hops in it. I just ran it to the fermentor as is without trying to filter it.
It did'nt block up my CFC and that was all i was worried about happening.


Jovial monk, Jovial Monk, Jovial Monk,
Ok i'll be in for some come July.


Cheers Jayse


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## Doc (7/6/04)

My wort was quite clear. Was very happy with it.
The hop sludge in the garden doesn't look like too much but it is in actual fact quite thick.
OG into the fermenter was 1.075.
The brew was at high krausen this morning. It is going to be a beauty.
I had my mate from Dominion Breweries doing the hop measuring and additions. Near the end he says, I need more Cascade. I'm like WHAT. There was more than enough there. He says I'm 10 grams short.
So this one could be 100 IBU  

Mental note: I need more accurate measuring scales.

Doc


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## Doc (13/6/04)

Just siphoned off a sample from the fermenter.
Has a great nose and a great deep golden colour.
Taste is awesome. It is like a really nice malty LCPA.
Will rack it probably mid week, then it will go into a keg as soon as one emptys.

Awesome brew Jayse.

Doc


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## pint of lager (13/6/04)

Who grows your hops? I want shares in the company.


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## Doc (13/6/04)

For this brew the Americans :angry: 

Doc


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## jayse (17/6/04)

I can almost smell and taste it from here Doc.
I'd be suprised to see a commericial brewery make such a beer though but it would indeed be a honor.
I put the SSOS down on monday in the presence of the fine Adelaide brewing comunity.
That was another huge hop beer with 100g chinnook 100g fuggles and 100g northern brewer. I swapped the EKG from the original SSOS recipe for NB as i didn't have any more goldings.
I did have some goldings but they all went into randall which was another very fun part of the day.
As is i can't really remeber how the beer tasted coming out of randal as i was as drunk as could be but it was the demon ale that went through randal and also i randalized a dry stout.
the SSOS was proberly my worst brewing effort to date also due to the drunken state i was in.
Anyway Bigd will post some pics of us randlizing the demon ale on his return to the net.
Randal did indeed work well as far as pouring the beer through it went maybe someone who wasn't as intoxicated as i was will post what the beer tasted like.

Cheers Jayse


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## SteveSA (18/6/04)

For those unable to attend or were too hungover from Sun night's efforts to attend.... You know who you are!!

Randall was a definite success (eventually). The first couple of glasses of Randallised Demon Ale tasted like plastic apparently. Thanks to Jayse and Big D for puting their hands up for guinea pig duties. It left a very nasty taste in peoples' mouthes that required much rinsing. Or was that the J....? Anyway - ever seen a dog eat peanut butter? You get the idea....

Once the factory coating had been burned away it did the job it was made for... but strangely the hop flavour wasn't as pronounced as expected. Mind you the Demon Ale didn't really need it.

The stout was a different story though. I was surprised how well Randall's extra hop hit really suited the stout. A fine drop indeed.

This is my version of the events as I remember them... :chug: :chug: :chug: 

Steve


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## Doc (4/7/04)

My brew of the Demon Ale has finally made it into a keg today. Am chilling it overnight and it will go on the gas tomorrow morning.
Took a 600ml sample in a PET bottle and am force carbing it now with the carbonation cap as I'm on the road tomorrow so will try it from my stayover tomorrow night. If I can get on dial-up I'll post a report.
It came in at 7.3%.

Beers,
Doc


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## big d (4/7/04)

aahhh thanks stevesa.
for some reason i still cant remember what it tasted like.one thing i do remember is the demon ale on its own is one wicked brew.well done jayse.
plastic taste hey.yuk cant remember haha.good to here randall got better with age.

on my return home the wife reckons shes never seen me so slurringly blabber mouthed. :blink: 
reckon i had one great time.
hope you like hopped beer doc as the demon is one kick arse brew.

cheers
big d


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## jayse (5/7/04)

Mmmm, the demon ale is still tasting good, still a few litres left, next time i'll do a double batch as this one, which i guess i'll now call the pilot batch, is unreal.

Sounds like yours will also be a killer Doc, i'll be able to smell when you open that first bottle.  

I remeber the plastic taste 'now' from randal on the first glass but everything after a few glasses of demon ale throught it is all blurry. :blink: 


Still don't have much of a plan for the next one,it will be very similar maybe some amber malt or more melanoidin or both.

Talking demon means i have to drink demon, thats why i didn't read this thread this morning :blink:  
Cheers Jayse(of to pour a demon) :chug:


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## Doc (6/7/04)

jayse said:


> Sounds like yours will also be a killer Doc, i'll be able to smell when you open that first bottle.


 hahahahaha, YES.
I had two 600ml PET bottles with me on the road last night.
One was my Irish Red and the other the Demon Ale.
When I pulled them out I couldn't remember which was which. 
Opened one and pow, that one is the Demon.
Smells and drinks very well, with that nice warming feeling. I hadn't carb'd it enough so will look forward to trying it from the keg tomorrow night. After 600ml I had to get some food as I could feel the Demon ale taking effect  

Great drop Jayse.

Beers,
Doc


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## jayse (6/7/04)

Thanx doc, but i only made the recipe you brewed it. so like most of my recipes' ie, the SFPA i can only take so much credit as it is the brewers who should take the credit themselves.

Anyway if your like me as soon as you get home after a trip away you unlock the front door and go straight to the keg fridge and sit down with a grin from ear to ear.  
Don't worry about greeting the missus just go straight for the demon ale.  


Jayse


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## Doc (7/7/04)

jayse said:


> Don't worry about greeting the missus just go straight for the demon ale.


 I'd like to but that maybe thawting my brewing plans this weekend :unsure: 

Think I'll do the family thing, have dinner then pour a pint and sit down to the State of Origin. And I'll probably be asleep by half time  

Doc


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## Doc (8/7/04)

Well I couldn't resist. Hi to the family as I walked in and straight to the keg fridge tap. 
Poured a small glass and consumed it while I caught up on family news.
Smells fantastic and is a great deep golden colour. 
Great lacing on the glass, awesome aroma and a fantastic full bodied beer. Definitely not a session beer  
Slept like a baby last night too  

Doc


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## jayse (8/7/04)

No its no session beer its proberly the biggest fullest flavoured most powerful beer i have made.
Speaking of iam off to grap and 500ml nonic full  
seeya all in hell. h34r:  

Jayse


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## Jethro (8/7/04)

jayse said:


> but trying to boil with low pressure three ring burners in the wind is useless.


Ttry building a ring around the burner with loose bricks to channel the heat to your Kettle (saves gas and gets a pretty good boil fast) I gotta boil in my veranda since I have no shed 
Cheers Jethro


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## jayse (8/7/04)

Yes i have a shield for the three ring without it in the wind is silly
No need now though as i have the insane burners direct from houston R&D

Jayse


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## Doc (4/8/04)

Tonight I found the perfect accompaniment for the Demon Ale. Hungarian Goulash.
My wife cooked up a great batch of Hungarian Goulash and paired with 500ml of Demon Ale it was the perfect dinner.

Just had to mention it :lol: 

Doc


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## jayse (4/8/04)

Although mine is all gone i can still taste and smell it, i just have to think about it the senses come to life.  
Come to think of it that must of been you pouring a glass before that i smelt over here in adelaide. :blink: 

Jayse


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## Guest Lurker (22/4/05)

Ok I know Jayse has progressed beyond these brews, but I'm a year or two behind Jayse in my brewing and I figure its a rite of passage, so I did the Demon!

1.075, 70 IBU, dropped the crystal a bit and upped the melanoidin a bit, only did 10 minute hop additions, and used pretty much 100% Amarillo front to back (like Doc my scales must be dodgy, I ran out of Amarillo and substituted chinook for the flame out additions).

And....its bloody lovely. Such a rich malty fruity flavour, theres no way you would pick this as 7.5% cos the alcohol is hidden behind everything else. Really tropical fruit flavours and aromas, a bit of lychee, a bit of passionfruit, backed by a solid malt flavour. Definitely worth a go for anybody thinking about it.


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## Doc (23/4/05)

The test of this beer is if you can still smell the hops the next day, and can't wait to get home to pour one and smell that fantastic hoppy aroma.

You should give the HourGlass IPA a bash too GL. The one I have on tap at the moment is 8.7% and you wouldn't know it under the great hop nose.

I've also been following a thread by some guys in the US with another super hoppy brew that has no bittering hops, but many many flavour and aroma additions using a three hop blend. mmmmmmmmm

Beers,
Doc


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## jayse (23/4/05)

Guest Lurker said:


> Such a rich malty fruity flavour, theres no way you would pick this as 7.5% cos the alcohol is hidden behind everything else.
> [post="55941"][/post]​



Yeap you don't pick it as overly bitter either, you really do have to load it with malt for it to work though or it will be a onesided affair which this beer certainly isn't. It is just as much about the malt as it is the hops.
I found the hops were very very smooth and by no way over the top because the malt backbone is so huge.

I have seen references on HBA that some brewers have trouble with getting there beers like this clear, i had no probs there, mine was as brite as could possibly be.

I am the same as you simon and go for the very least crystal malt possible but some american ones seem to be loaded with up to five different types which seems quite strange given the OG.

Anyway i won't be doing another for a while as iam too poor to be able to afford everything that goes into it right now.  


The Rover.
jayse


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