# How Long Can You Leave Equipment In Sanitiser



## zj8 (26/3/11)

Hi all
Question 1. I have a question on how long you can leave your brew gear sanitising? Basically there have been a few occasions that I have prepared to put a brew down the following day, putting all my brewing gear in my fermenter with a sanitising solution and leaving for 24 hours to sanitise, but then not getting round to doing the brew. Will the sanitiser solution stay good for say a week and not require further sanitising of the fermenter and equipment?

I use Coopers Sanitiser where you mix the solution then fill the fermenter to the brim and leave for 24 hours.

Question 2. If I sanitise and pressurise a keg with Co2 and leave to sit (for weeks if necessary) until ready to keg my brew, should I sanitise it before kegging? I know it is best practise to leave an empty keg sealed and clean it imediately prior to kegging but there have been a few occassions that I have wanted to clean all kegs at once.


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## Pollux (26/3/11)

Isn't the Coopers stuff sodium percarbonate? As in it requires rinsing after use?

If it is then it's basically the same as napisan and I have left stuff soaking in that stuff for months, rinsed it out and sanitised it with iodophor.

As for kegs, I have left iodophor in them before for months at a time, although I tend to give them another dose before filling, given the price of sanitiser it's worth the effort to prevent potentially losing a batch.


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## fcmcg (26/3/11)

zj8 said:


> Hi all
> Question 1. I have a question on how long you can leave your brew gear sanitising? Basically there have been a few occasions that I have prepared to put a brew down the following day, putting all my brewing gear in my fermenter with a sanitising solution and leaving for 24 hours to sanitise, but then not getting round to doing the brew. Will the sanitiser solution stay good for say a week and not require further sanitising of the fermenter and equipment?
> 
> I use Coopers Sanitiser where you mix the solution then fill the fermenter to the brim and leave for 24 hours.
> ...


Mate ,
I'm not sure about coopers sanitiser , as i use iodopher ( in a spray bottle...even less water used) . But what i would say is no it wouldn't stay good.I'm thinking that it's probabbly just as easy to re-sanitise and be sure....
With my kegs , i wash them with oxyper ( or no-name napisanand about 3 litres of water) , rinse and then sanitise...pressurise ,put a plastic bag over the top and store....could be months before i use that keg again ( i nhave 10 lol ) I always spray some iodopher over the top & disconects before i open it to fill it. If the keg has been stored sanitised and under pressure , it should be fine...
I always clean & sanitise 3 or 4 kegs at a time....
Cheers
Ferg


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## ekul (26/3/11)

If i want to keep stuff sanitised for long term i use napisan. Napisan breaks down into hydrogen peroxide so it kills any nasties. Obviously i wash it off before use and sanitise with iodophor. BUt it stops mould growing in the meantime.

I was wondering why all my cubes stored full of napisan always have air in them after awhile. Its because sodium percarbonate turns into Hydrogen peroxide (and other stuff) which turns into oxgen and water. Which i thought was interesting, but i am a nerd.


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## Bizier (26/3/11)

Sometimes I forget that I leave transfer hoses etc in a bucket of starsan, and I have found that it does something kinda weird to PVC, and makes it go milk and slimy, obviously it is breaking down the plastic. I try to remember to have everything hanging so that it can drain and dry as soon as possible.


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## matr (26/3/11)

Pollux said:


> Isn't the Coopers stuff sodium percarbonate? As in it requires rinsing after use?
> 
> If it is then it's basically the same as napisan and I have left stuff soaking in that stuff for months, rinsed it out and sanitised it with iodophor.
> 
> As for kegs, I have left iodophor in them before for months at a time, although I tend to give them another dose before filling, given the price of sanitiser it's worth the effort to prevent potentially losing a batch.



Sodium perc doesn't require rinsing. Here is some info

There are quite a few resources that say it is no rinse.
http://www.basicsofhomebrewing.com/bohb38percarbonate.html
http://www.winemakersdepot.com/One-Step-Cl...1-lb--P217.aspx
http://www.brewcraftsa.com.au/showProduct/...ng+Agents/55100
http://www.fact-index.com/s/so/sodium_percarbonate.html
http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/15630894.pdf

It turns to hydrogen peroxide In fluid which is FDA approved and can even be used as toothpaste.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_pe...Redirected=true

Cheers, Mat.


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## Wolfy (26/3/11)

zj8 said:


> Hi all
> Question 1. I have a question on how long you can leave your brew gear sanitising? Basically there have been a few occasions that I have prepared to put a brew down the following day, putting all my brewing gear in my fermenter with a sanitising solution and leaving for 24 hours to sanitise, but then not getting round to doing the brew. Will the sanitiser solution stay good for say a week and not require further sanitising of the fermenter and equipment?
> 
> I use Coopers Sanitiser where you mix the solution then fill the fermenter to the brim and leave for 24 hours.
> ...


After you have cleaned and sanitised everything, if you then drain, dry and cover/seal (with cling wrap or similar) most items should stay sanitary. If no bugs or dust can get into your gear there will be nothing to infect or contaminate. However leaving stuff in sanitizing solution for long periods is generally not recommended as many sanitizers work only for a short period and loose their effectiveness quickly and especially if the container is open to the air you could be introducing many unwanted bugs into the previously sanitized liquid.

If Coopers Sanitiser is sodium percabonate based, I'd suggest you keep that to use as a soak and cleaning product and invest in a dedicated no-rinse sanitizer, and you'll find that for the small cost (per batch) it makes your sanitation procedure much easier and you should not have to worry about storing after since you just rinse it quickly before use.


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## felten (26/3/11)

matr said:


> Sodium perc doesn't require rinsing. Here is some info


It doesn't JUST turn into just hydrogen peroxide, it also breaks down to sodium carbonate which is alkaline. Not rinsing it can cancel out your sanitiser depending on what you're using. IE starsan relies on dropping the pH to a certain level 2.8-3 or so, if you put starsan into your container without rinsing it will raise the ph (adding an acid to a base) and your starsan could be ineffective.


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## matr (26/3/11)

True..

But why would you sanitise twice? Is it like using 2 frangers?


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## DU99 (26/3/11)

i wash my bottles in sodium percarbonate put them away ,when go the use them i use iodophor.kegs get the same treatment..


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## felten (26/3/11)

matr said:


> True..
> 
> But why would you sanitise twice? Is it like using 2 frangers?


IMO sodium percarbonate isn't a sanitiser, but you might find some differing opinions there.


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## kelbygreen (26/3/11)

I use sodium perc to clean and starsan to sanitise, I soak stuff for at least 24 hours with sodium perc some times weeks at least you dont have to bother cleaning gear it does it for you.


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## BobtheBrewer (26/3/11)

Bizier said:


> Sometimes I forget that I leave transfer hoses etc in a bucket of starsan, and I have found that it does something kinda weird to PVC, and makes it go milk and slimy, obviously it is breaking down the plastic. I try to remember to have everything hanging so that it can drain and dry as soon as possible.



I've found the same thing, seems to take a hell of a rinse to get rid of the slimyness.


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## zj8 (26/3/11)

Thanks guys all good info, there is a lot of mention of starsan and that it is a better sanitiser than the coopers sanitiser. I haven't heard of this before, where do you get it from?


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## fcmcg (26/3/11)

zj8 said:


> Thanks guys all good info, there is a lot of mention of starsan and that it is a better sanitiser than the coopers sanitiser. I haven't heard of this before, where do you get it from?


Bloke , 
Try the sponsors above ....
Cheers 
Ferg


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## jasonharley (27/3/11)

matr said:


> True..
> 
> But why would you sanitise twice? Is it like using 2 frangers?



According to Australian Standards, there is a 1 in 200 chance of a ruptured franger based on quality control testing ..... so I say sanitize twice !


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## SpillsMostOfIt (27/3/11)

If you're using Napisan - or some other sodium percarbonate based laundry grade cleanser - it will have about 35% sodium percarbonate and the balance fillers, surfactants and other nonsense. These things do need to be rinsed off if you don't like the taste of them. Many home brewers do not.

If you're using (more) pure sodium percarbonate - OxyPer for example, which is said to be 100% - then you have a good cleaner, but I would still rinse it off well. At that point, you need to sanitise the equipments if you don't like the taste of bugs and stuff. Unless you want to do it all over again, following up with a no-rinse sanitiser is a good idea. Iodophors, peroxide- or acid- based sanitisers are cheap from sponsors, etc.

I've used plain-label napisan for years under the belief that it is cheaper than HBS percarbonate (It's certainly cheaper than the Coopers stuff in those itsy bitsy containers.). I have been shown recently that I was wrong and the 100% stuff works out considerably cheaper.


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## mwd (27/3/11)

A bit :icon_offtopic: I use Iodophor but if I store it in containers it goes off ( loses golden colour) in just a few days. I was storing it in 2l PET juice bottles.


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## Leigh (28/3/11)

Bizier said:


> Sometimes I forget that I leave transfer hoses etc in a bucket of starsan, and I have found that it does something kinda weird to PVC, and makes it go milk and slimy, obviously it is breaking down the plastic. I try to remember to have everything hanging so that it can drain and dry as soon as possible.



Some things shouldn't be left in water for long, add chemicals to the water as "cleaner" or "sanitiser" and you run the risk of said thing absorbing that chemical, which could be released back into your beer.

PVC is one of these said "things" that should not be left in water for periods longer than a few hours...that milkiness is not chemical breakdown, but the chemical structure swelling and allowing water in. IF there are microbes in the water, these can also take up residence in the structure of the PVC.

I store everything dry, much safer that way.


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## Nick JD (28/3/11)

Until your equipment dissolves.


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## jonocarroll (28/3/11)

Bizier said:


> ... I have found that it does something kinda weird to PVC, and makes it go milk and slimy, *obviously* it is breaking down the plastic ...


Brilliant use of the word 'obviously' there. Also, the Sun _obviously_ goes around the Earth, which is _obviously_ flat.

The 'slime' you refer to is more likely to be the saponification of the oils on your hands. I also get the 'milky' look with various bits of plastic if I leave them in percarb too long. I usually try to avoid this if it's unnecessary.


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## unrealeous (28/3/11)

Leigh said:


> PVC is one of these said "things" that should not be left in water for periods longer than a few hours...that milkiness is not chemical breakdown, but the chemical structure swelling and allowing water in. IF there are microbes in the water, these can also take up residence in the structure of the PVC.


AFAIK - PVC products are not food safe and thus I'd avoid using them in your brewery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chl...alth_and_safety


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## flano (30/3/11)

I store almost all my equipment inside a franger?
I leave my hop sock out to air dry.


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## raven19 (30/3/11)

I have some lambics with no rinse sanitiser in the airlocks, and they are still going strong after 12months+.


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## Nodrog (3/4/11)

unrealeous said:


> AFAIK - PVC products are not food safe and thus I'd avoid using them in your brewery.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chl...alth_and_safety




Most water networks in Aus, NZ, and other places lucky enough to have reticulated water, are made from PVC pipes. 

Don't believe its PVC that's the problem, its a nearly inert polymer, its the crap they put in the PVC to make it easy to mold, extrude, colour, etc etc thats the dodgy shit.

Believe the greenies hate PVC cos making it involves a shed load of chlorine, not all of which ends up as PVC


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## manticle (3/4/11)

raven19 said:


> I have some lambics with no rinse sanitiser in the airlocks, and they are still going strong after 12months+.



Rubbish.

I bet they're infected.


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## Charst (3/4/11)

manticle said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> I bet they're infected.




Would'nt be Lambic if it wasn't.  
(Brewer notes not all infections are good ones)


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## michael_aussie (3/4/11)

beernorks said:


> I store almost all my equipment inside a franger?
> I leave my hop sock out to air dry.


what's a franger???


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## raven19 (3/4/11)

manticle said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> I bet they're infected.



Infected - most definately yes, but it has not dissolved the plastic on the airlock... yet  

:icon_offtopic: (Speaking of lambics...)


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## MaltyHops (3/4/11)

michael_aussie said:


> beernorks said:
> 
> 
> > I store almost all my equipment inside a franger?
> ...


It's an old, funny name for a third leg sock :blink: 

Was going to say this is getting off topic but then frangers often
have sanitisers in them don't they? :lol:


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## going down a hill (4/4/11)

michael_aussie said:


> what's a franger???


It's a dinger.


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