# Little Creatures



## paul (1/10/08)

Does anyone know if this brew has been changed overthe last few years? It sure as hell aint as good as it used to be.


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## datman510 (1/10/08)

which one? the bright ale is great, the pales all good.... i dont think they have from my own tasting investigations


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## Tony (1/10/08)

Ahh Haaaaaaaaaaaaa

Another beliver!

Amem.

LCPA.......... IMO has gone from a beer with some malt depth and colour to an incipid thin harshly hopped glass of .......... i wont say any more


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## paul (1/10/08)

Cheers Tony, I used to buy slabs of it a few years ago and stopped when we had kids. Ive bought a few singles over the last few months and it tastes like watery and overhopped.


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## Screwtop (1/10/08)

Well now, it might be rough, but by god it's cheap. er to produce I mean. I've got to say that I've noticed a diff too. Thankfully with craftbrews one can at least notice a difference unlike the little "savings" made by LN etc to increase profits. Going from very little colour, flavour and aroma to less is much less noticeable :lol:


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## buttersd70 (1/10/08)

Thank god. Thanks Tony, I thought I was the only one.....with so many "American" style fans on the forum, I thought I was a bit of a leper thinking that there wasn't enough of a malt backbone to correctly balance this beer......

Still _MILES _ahead of megaswill, though.


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## Brewer_010 (1/10/08)

Sure it's not your changed tastes and / or perceptions h34r: ?

I have had the odd one/threeover the past few months and, while I don't think it's WOW as when I first tried it years ago, it still has "it" IMHO

Maybe many people are hopping or even making their own beers so well that LCPA pales in comparison and is starting to taste ordinary?

Just a thought...


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## buttersd70 (1/10/08)

> Sure it's not your changed tastes and / or perception


In my particular case, no. The reason being, I only tried it for the first time recently. Then again a few weeks later. So I don't have "years ago" tastes getting in the way. 

Don't get me wrong....I think it's a fine beer. I just think it's not to _*my *_style, and is a bit over rated.

LCPA has a lot, lot, lot (worth mentioning 3 times) more hop flavour than my beer. But I prefer mine. Because it's to *my *taste, and is balanced with the neither the hop *nor *the malt dominating. Not to everyones taste, for sure. But it is to mine. It's a very decisive and personal thing, isn't it?.


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## kram (1/10/08)

Do people check the dates on bottles? It's become a habit of mine these days. It does have a bit of an influence...


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## Millet Man (1/10/08)

kram said:


> Do people check the dates on bottles? It's become a habit of mine these days. It does have a bit of an influence...


SWMBO bought home a bottle of LCPA a week or so ago, she'd had one a couple of weeks earlier and liked it, and I had a sniff expecting hoppy goodness - not there - and then a taste and bugger me if it wasn't skunked (in a brown bottle). Was like Euro lager in a green bottle.

Checked the best before date and it was around May next year so reasonably fresh.

Maybe there's some poor handling happening as well.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## Tony (1/10/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Thank god. Thanks Tony, I thought I was the only one.....with so many "American" style fans on the forum, I thought I was a bit of a leper thinking that there wasn't enough of a malt backbone to correctly balance this beer......
> 
> Still _MILES _ahead of megaswill, though.



Na mate im the APA Nazi on here! I have been brewing them on ocasion though. They arent shit...... i just think its a typically american style..... over the top and out of ballance. Not that thats a bad thing in small amounts! I do like it now and then.

Keg after keg........... no thanks. 2 glasses of pinoclean does me  



Brewer_010 said:


> Sure it's not your changed tastes and / or perceptions h34r: ?
> 
> I have had the odd one/threeover the past few months and, while I don't think it's WOW as when I first tried it years ago, it still has "it" IMHO
> 
> ...




No i have no problems with any other beer i have tried in my drinking life tasting different.

JS amber ale still tastes the same. Tooheys new still tastes the same. 

One thing i can do is remember what a beer tasted like a long time ago. Its how i memorise what differences different ingredients make to the beers i brew and then use this to re-formulate and ballance the recipes!

I remember drinking LCPA and it was a darker colour and mlatier. It had a rounder body but the same hop flavour it has now. The rounder body held up the hops but the last couple i have tried have been like a pale thin watery lager with high bitterness. This makes the hops harsh and stick out like a sore thumb.

cheers

Edit: used bys were 6 months awar or around that........ but they were not old bottles.


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## Muggus (1/10/08)

I too have noticed this, and actually have proof!

My girlfriend bought a case of pints bottles of years back and hadn't finish it off. Anyway I'd bought a sixer of the most recent stuff a while back and she mentioned "I still have some pints that I bought aged ago in the fridge".
So I sat down with this pint bottle of LCPA, past its BB date, thinking to myself "Oh yeah, this is great"
By the time I was done with that bad boy, my 6 pack of fresh stubbies was ready, and I got stuck into them and it occured to me "Somethings different here...". It someone seemed less 'fresh' than the older beer, something about the malt backbone being a bit less apparent, and the hops seeming less intense. 
I've always wondered if it has something to do with seasonal variations on hops and malt?
Having said that, it's not bad at all!
It use to be well above the other Aussie-made APA crowd, now is probably battling for number 1 spot, as far as big-name commercial brewers go. Though my number 1 has officially now changed to Lobethal Bierhaus APA!


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## Screwtop (1/10/08)

Well thankfully we can brew your LCBA Tony, it's tasting shit hot in the fermenter.


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## Tony (1/10/08)

:lol:

Edit: Will someone kindly email a link to this to LC brewing!

Maybe they need to read it!

Last time i posted about a comercial lot like this i got a nasty PM from them (coopers)

Waiting for the message 

cheers


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## pbrosnan (1/10/08)

I think LCPA is a fine beer. But Alpha Ale is better, the reason being that AA is probably hoppier but has more malt body, my guess is more crystal. But then AA is twice the price of LCPA. If I was into American style ales (which I am) then I'd be trying to make something like AA (which I am).


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## Muggus (1/10/08)

Actually...now that I think of it, ever since they've changed bottles from the standard brown 330ml stubbie to the LC brown 330ml stubbie with the Cherub on the side, the beer seemed to have changed as well.


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## Brewer_010 (1/10/08)

Think a trip to a bottlo is on the cards and refresh my memory...


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## kram (1/10/08)

Millet Man said:


> SWMBO bought home a bottle of LCPA a week or so ago, she'd had one a couple of weeks earlier and liked it, and I had a sniff expecting hoppy goodness - not there - and then a taste and bugger me if it wasn't skunked (in a brown bottle). Was like Euro lager in a green bottle.
> 
> Checked the best before date and it was around May next year so reasonably fresh.
> 
> ...


That's interesting. I haven't had one since february and it was fresh as and I was very pleased with the hop flavour and aroma. I had the opposite experience to Tony though, it felt like the bitterness was alot lower than the few I tried in Melbourne 2 years back.

Then again, any commercial style resembling APA that i've tried has been different on each occasion. Who knows, I guess you're lucky if you get a good one?


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## wyatt_girth (1/10/08)

Is this only recently that this has become noticable? I tried LCPA for the first time back in March this year to see why my neighbour loves it so much and to my untrained senses it was a bit too hoppy for me and also a little heavier (denser, maltier, you know what I'm tryin to say?) than I was used to at this stage of my beer initiation. However I recently decided to give it another go and grabbed a stub on the way home bout two weeks ago and it was a whole different experience. I enjoyed it as I found it to be thinner in body and not quite as hoppy (again, this is my uneducated beer tasting). While my drinking preferences have changed a little since my first attempt I am still no hophead by any stretch of the term so it would suggest to me that this beer is different in the short time to when I resampled. I may be way off the mark, as I usually am, but it was a different beer to what I remembered.
I recommended to my brother in Tamworth to also grab a stub and he called me up in disgust and described his to me as vegemite and water. Somehow I don't think he got the best example on offer and this was enough to put him off trying it again.

All this being said and done - I have a LCPA kit and bits fermenting right now


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## kevin_smevin (1/10/08)

pbrosnan said:


> I think LCPA is a fine beer. But Alpha Ale is better, the reason being that AA is probably hoppier but has more malt body, my guess is more crystal. But then AA is twice the price of LCPA. If I was into American style ales (which I am) then I'd be trying to make something like AA (which I am).




Alpha ale too isnt the beer it used to be. It came out about 4 or 5 years ago as a seasonal beer and was much better. Last time a tried alpha it was way to grassy and not nearly citrusy enough for my liking. Also not as bitter as it used to be. Id guess theyre using alot of chinook or similar really late but not enough earlier on. Just a thought


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## Muggus (1/10/08)

yum yum yum said:


> Alpha ale too isnt the beer it used to be. It came out about 4 or 5 years ago as a seasonal beer and was much better. Last time a tried alpha it was way to grassy and not nearly citrusy enough for my liking. Also not as bitter as it used to be. Id guess theyre using alot of chinook or similar really late but not enough earlier on. Just a thought


I'd have agree with that statement also. 
First time I tried AA was on tap around 3 years ago. Only had it off tap once since, and it didn't compare, and the bottled version, well no better. 
Yet again, still a great beer though!


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## Cocko (2/10/08)

LCPA = Ohh how tasty, hopped up beer - sort of like SNPA!!

SNPA = Perfectly hopped and still the same

LCPA = We need more of it coz of sales so i say = taste change!

IMO = above! 

Oh my god I hope butters is wrong.... Is this my last post!
<_<


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## kabooby (2/10/08)

I had a LCPA on tap a few months back for the first time in about a year. I thought it was great. Fresh and had me wanting another. 

I am not sure if it has changed over the years. 

I think that memory is not an acurate tool for measuring if a beer has changed. Especially when it was a few years ago. 

Kabooby


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## dig (2/10/08)

Our palates change too. I can remember as a youngster on a camping trip gagging down Steinlager, shocked by how bitter it was. I reckon it probably wasn't all that bitter really.

I have a wine cellar full of SA shiraz... overly oaked, sweet and goopy muck that I don't like much these days.


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## Screwtop (2/10/08)

dig said:


> Our palates change too.




Very true dig, however I did think it was a little "thinner" last time. Still love the Bright and Rogers though. When it comes to hop bitterness, my palate swings about, sometimes I can't get enough and look for IPA's, then after a while can't stand hoppy beers and look for the maltier styles. Generally for a housie I have something crisp and light bodied hopped in the low 20's on tap as a sessionable. Guess we're bloody lucky to have such a selection eh, anyone remember the beer strike of the 70's :lol:

Screwy


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## rclemmett (2/10/08)

yum yum yum said:


> Alpha ale too isnt the beer it used to be. It came out about 4 or 5 years ago as a seasonal beer and was much better. Last time a tried alpha it was way to grassy and not nearly citrusy enough for my liking. Also not as bitter as it used to be. Id guess theyre using alot of chinook or similar really late but not enough earlier on. Just a thought




That would be because the man owns it now.


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## gibbocore (2/10/08)

this happened to snowy mountains beers also, the cracken back and the razorback especially, the razorback red had stacks of simcoe flavour (shut up, i love it) when i tried it at the food and wine festival, a year later in the bottle and it was bland as. The pale ale is still fruity but nothing on what it had.


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## reviled (2/10/08)

Tony said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can we have a read  Do you still have it? Would be a hoot! lol


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## lagers44 (2/10/08)

I tried my first ever bottled LCPA a few months back after years of hearing good things about it, was it good ? 

I'm in no rush to buy another. What I tasted was a fair but uninspiring Pale Ale . It lacked a malt profile it had nothing to note about it, it seemed to have no bitterness but this strong cacade aroma & flavour that dominated the beer with nothing behind it, it was like drinking hop flavour wih no malt or bitterness backing it up more like a cascade perfumed blandness.
If that is what it's supposed to be then I'm dissapointed that it has such a reputation. Mind you I've found the same thing with JS Pilsner & Golden Ale, great beers sometimes but the consistency is out the window & shite at other times. 
At least with the bigger commercial breweries you know what you will be getting day in day out.

My 2c worth , now I can let it be.

Lagers


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## gibbocore (2/10/08)

Mate, in LC defence, that's what an APA generally is, i will dispute though that it has no bitterness.


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## rclemmett (2/10/08)

lagers44 said:


> At least with the bigger commercial breweries you know what you will be getting day in day out.
> 
> My 2c worth , now I can let it be.
> 
> Lagers




Thats easy when you're brewing bland beers with lots of adjuncts........... Isn't LCPA a "craft beer"? :huh: 

I've always taken that to mean an art rather than a science.


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## mckenry (2/10/08)

pbrosnan said:


> I think LCPA is a fine beer. But Alpha Ale is better, the reason being that AA is probably hoppier but has more malt body, my guess is more crystal. But then AA is twice the price of LCPA. If I was into American style ales (which I am) then I'd be trying to make something like AA (which I am).



+1 Patrick - you saved me typing it myself.


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## gibbocore (2/10/08)

+2

Thats why i got into ESB's


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## randyrob (2/10/08)

for me i think of LCPA as a "gateway drug" it introduces to average beer drinker into a style they probably otherwise wouldn't have tried


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## wyatt_girth (2/10/08)

randyrob said:


> for me i think of LCPA as a "gateway drug" it introduces to average beer drinker into a style they probably otherwise wouldn't have tried



I am this average beer drinker you speak of and that is exactly how it went down. Next stop was Murrays Nirvana. Now, I spend my day thinking bout my next hit.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (2/10/08)

Stop your whining and brew yourselves an APA.
It's AUSSIEHOMEBREWER for Allah's sakes <_< !

C&B
TDA


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## warrenlw63 (2/10/08)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Stop your whining and brew yourselves an APA.
> It's AUSSIEHOMEBREWER for Allah's sakes <_< !
> 
> C&B
> TDA



:lol: Come out of Ramadan a little worse for wear?

Warren -


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

> No i have no problems with any other beer i have tried in my drinking life tasting different.
> 
> JS amber ale still tastes the same. Tooheys new still tastes the same.
> 
> ...



Excuse me.... WHAT ABOUT JS GOLDEN ALE.... totally different beer then when it was released as a limited release on Summer.

Anyhow I had 4 pints of the lovely LCPA yesterday (straight from the brewery itself, living in Fremantle does have its plus's. No complaints... 

And the place is looking fantastic... Rumors of something starting up in Melbourne. New beers and all apparently.


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## dig (2/10/08)

Katie said:


> And the place is looking fantastic... Rumors of something starting up in Melbourne. New beers and all apparently.



New brewery opening in Healesville (an hour east of Melbourne) and the new LC Dining Hall is open in Brunswick Street, Fitzroy (no brewery, just a booz'n and eat'n joint).


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## mckenry (2/10/08)

Katie said:


> Excuse me.... WHAT ABOUT JS GOLDEN ALE.... totally different beer then when it was released as a limited release on Summer.
> 
> Anyhow I had 4 pints of the lovely LCPA yesterday (straight from the brewery itself, living in Fremantle does have its plus's. No complaints...
> 
> And the place is looking fantastic... Rumors of something starting up in Melbourne. New beers and all apparently.


Sep 20 2008, 09:17 AM Post #40 


Hey Katie, did you see this post in reply to you a while ago?


QUOTE (Katie @ Sep 16 2008, 04:00 PM) 
I know this is a tiny bit of topic and pretty sure it's being mentioned before.... BUT Im a little upset.

I have not had a JSGA out of a bottle for quite some time... but the first time I did I LOVED IT... That was when it was a limited addition. I drank it all that Summer.

This has happened before but I thought I would give it another go just last week at the Norfolk I had a pint of JSGA... I know it's a low carbed beer but it seemed flat and really really bland I could not pick up on Amarillo at all. I could only drink half a pint... This is the third time this has happened and only from the tap....


Hey Katie,
After reading this thread I decided to have a JS Golden here in Sydney. I too am a fan - or should that be ex-fan. I had it off the tap at the Bank Hotel Newtown. Yep, its gone all bland and boring. No more punch. The Pilsener was still very good though.
mckenry


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## Screwtop (2/10/08)

OT I know but I'm pretty sure JSGA is brewed in a number of location, that would account for the diff - Dig??


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## dig (2/10/08)

I think it's all brewed at SAB now. It tastes as it does because they choose to make it taste as it does. It's not a complicated beer and any brewery is capable of making it taste as it used to. I have never understood the rationale behind choosing to dumb down a beer. Invent a dumb beer straight off the bat and leave the good one alone.

Drink bright ale as it's the same sort of style but still really tasty. Or brew your own JSGA (former) clone.


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

> Drink bright ale as it's the same sort of style but still really tasty. Or brew your own JSGA (former) clone.



Bottled mine last Tuesday night..... two weeks to go, two weeks to go....


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## HoppingMad (2/10/08)

dig said:


> New brewery opening in Healesville (an hour east of Melbourne) and the new LC Dining Hall is open in Brunswick Street, Fitzroy (no brewery, just a booz'n and eat'n joint).



Woohoo! You guys are right! Little Creatures Brewery is coming to Victoria in Healesville! Yeaaaaaaah! :super: 

Article here confirms it!:
http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/52897

Good to see some beer making its way into Yarra Valley wine country. Bring it on I say!

Hopper.


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

Apparently there will be a new beer...


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## King Brown (2/10/08)

I work in a venue, with the two best beers on offer at the bar being LCPA and LCBA, as a result I've drank usually at least one bottle of the pale every week for the last year and a bit. While I still think its a tasty beverage, I think its changed. I find it to have a more "floral" hop flavour than it used to?
this venue is also in Fremantle, only about a 5 minute walk from the brewery itself


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## kook (2/10/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Woohoo! You guys are right! Little Creatures Brewery is coming to Victoria in Healesville! Yeaaaaaaah! :super:
> 
> Article here confirms it!:
> http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/story/52897
> ...



http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=26017


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## HoppingMad (2/10/08)

kook said:


> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=26017



And it has walls too! Yeahhh!

Thanks for the heads up Kook! Bring on the beer! :beerbang: 

Hopper.


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## HoppingMad (2/10/08)

Katie said:


> Apparently there will be a new beer...


Interesting. I wonder if they will depart from their light hoppy ale & APA thing and embark on a new challenge?

Only time will tell...


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

I was asking if they were going to do anything like they did last year with the 'KNOWLEDGE' which was fantastic according to my brew partner and partner. 

And was told to look out for what happens in VIC... 

I'm a huge fan of there pale ale, I think it's changed slightly but I still love it! Though I also wonder why they have not tried something else in a while.


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## sinkas (2/10/08)

Apparently there could be a new and very limited tasty brew apearing a the brewery this month


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

called ramification or something?????


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## sinkas (2/10/08)

No idea on names, but why do you say that, is it already there?


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

Not on tap...... no.......


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## HoppingMad (2/10/08)

Scuse my ignorance but what's "Knowledge" was that a limited release beer from Little Creatures? 

Noticed at the local bottle-o there's a new cider that's out from these guys - admittedly I'm into the fizzy brown stuff myself, but whatever floats your boat.  

Hopper.


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## Katherine (2/10/08)

Knowledge was a limited release, just after a hop delivery (it was not bottled). Apparently there not getting a one hop delivery any longer. 

Pipsqueak is the cider, Im not a fan of cider either... Though I do prefer Bulmers to Pipsqueak.


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## sinkas (2/10/08)

SO do you have any info regarding it Katie?


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## grw74 (2/10/08)

dig said:


> I think it's all brewed at SAB now. It tastes as it does because they choose to make it taste as it does. It's not a complicated beer and any brewery is capable of making it taste as it used to. I have never understood the rationale behind choosing to dumb down a beer. Invent a dumb beer straight off the bat and leave the good one alone.
> 
> Drink bright ale as it's the same sort of style but still really tasty. Or brew your own JSGA (former) clone.




To my knowledge when JSGA was good it was brewed at Malt Shovel at Pyrmont in Sydney. It first changes flavour when Lion Nathan took over production at Lidcombe. Even though it's the same recipe it just doesn't replicate on a bigger brewhouse. (unavoidable) Then the shortage of hops in the commercial brewing world meant a change of recipe as volumes of Amarillo are just unavailable hense the current version. Same thing happened with JS Pilsener. Good at Pyrmont, not so good at Lidcombe, back at Pyrmont and back to it's best.

That's my thoughts based on my limited commercial brewing knowledge.......

Cheers


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## Tony (2/10/08)

Spot on BB, was just about to state that myself!

I wasnt implying that LCPA is the only beer in the worls to change Katie....... just refferencing some beers i have drank for a long time to say my pallat hasnt changed much , thats all.

My dad worked for LN for many years and i remember hin getting a 6 pack of the origional James Squire Strong Ale. It wasnt released to the public at all and was only a 200 or 400 case batch. 

It was huge. thick and malty, almost chewey. very bitter, slightly hazy and some earth hoppiness.

I bought a 6 pack of it each years its been released and it went down hill each year. Ended up high gravity JS amber ale. about 1/3 the character the origional beer had.

very disapointing

cheers


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## /// (2/10/08)

Backyard Brewer said:


> when Lion Nathan took over production at Lidcombe...



Per Dig, try SAB. Lidcombe is not the centre of all evil!


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## dig (2/10/08)

Tony said:


> My dad worked for LN for many years and i remember hin getting a 6 pack of the origional James Squire Strong Ale. It wasnt released to the public at all and was only a 200 or 400 case batch.



You may be thinking of another beer Tony

I did the first trial brew of JS Strong in the back yard of my mate Brucie's place in Manly. We tweaked the recipe, brewed 10 or 11 batches at MSB, packed it all out (6,000 cases), did a launch upstairs at the Hero of Waterloo in The Rocks and then sold it all. I have a photo of me bent over an AG rig in his backyard that I'll post up tomorrow.


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## Tony (2/10/08)

YEah that could well be the brew! my memory has faded on the figures my dad gave me years ago. 

It was the beer that got me into brewing. I never forgot the beer and how bloody good it tasted.

It definatly had a home brew feel to it with a touch of haze and that wow factor that you get when you make a great beer.

That would be around 8 years ago now wouldnt it..... give or take a year or 2

If it is the same beer we are talking about i do thank you for the most wonderful beer i have ever had from a comercial bottle!

cheers


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## HoppingMad (2/10/08)

Katie said:


> Knowledge was a limited release, just after a hop delivery (it was not bottled). Apparently there not getting a one hop delivery any longer.



You guys in WA are lucky to get these tasty kegs of limited releases. They never see the light of day in Vic, but I guess we can't whinge too much plenty of interesting micros about to keep us occupied and plenty more springing up. Always been a fan of the Matilda Bay stuff too from out your way, but just chuffed that some little creatures brewing talent might be heading our way. If they bring out more beers, that's fine by me, Rogers, LCPA, LCBA it's all good.

I like the sound of Ramification. That's a cool name. 

Hopper.


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## tfxm (2/10/08)

i tried the knowledge in victoria ... at the GB in richmond. 
i think that was the only place that had it tho. one keg maybe.
i was hoping for more hops.

i though russian river had copyrighted all beer names ending in "ation"?

LWB have some serious cash going on.


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## dig (2/10/08)

I think it was 2001. My memory is fading too. I think the key to that beer was loads of quality specialty malts, an experimental hop from Tassy called A29 or something that may or may not have become a commercial cultivar, and Fullers ESB yeast. Shocking hangovers from that beer...


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## kook (2/10/08)

HoppingMad said:


> You guys in WA are lucky to get these tasty kegs of limited releases. They never see the light of day in Vic, but I guess we can't whinge too much plenty of interesting micros about to keep us occupied and plenty more springing up.



http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry287357

The availability in Vic was posted a thread here when it came out


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## dig (2/10/08)

tfxm said:


> i though russian river had copyrighted all beer names ending in "ation"?


Stone make an IPA called Ruination


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## Osangar (2/10/08)

I loved Little Creatures both the pale and the bright ales

However, on the weekend I went to the Inglewood, and asked for a bright, had a taste and thought this is like VB.


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## Katherine (3/10/08)

> SO do you have any info regarding it Katie?



NOTHING in stone Sinkas... just rumors...


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## sinkas (3/10/08)

Osangar said:


> However, on the weekend I went to the Inglewood,



Enough said.


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## reviled (3/10/08)

Backyard Brewer said:


> To my knowledge when JSGA was good it was brewed at Malt Shovel at Pyrmont in Sydney. It first changes flavour when Lion Nathan took over production at Lidcombe. Even though it's the same recipe it just doesn't replicate on a bigger brewhouse. (unavoidable) Then the shortage of hops in the commercial brewing world meant a change of recipe as volumes of Amarillo are just unavailable hense the current version. Same thing happened with JS Pilsener. Good at Pyrmont, not so good at Lidcombe, back at Pyrmont and back to it's best.
> 
> That's my thoughts based on my limited commercial brewing knowledge.......
> 
> Cheers



Dont you just hate Lion Nathan!!! <_<


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## Katherine (3/10/08)

> Dont you just hate Lion Nathan!!!



They broke my heart....

Im tough though I brewed my own.... two more weeks two more weeks.....Im squeezing the bottles every night.


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## HoppingMad (3/10/08)

kook said:


> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry287357
> 
> The availability in Vic was posted a thread here when it came out



Ah! Before I joined AHB! Should have got onto this forum earlier. Would have been drinking the good stuff sooner!

The GB is a fave haunt of mine too. They stock the range of LC on tap, the Snowy Pale, and good clean coopers beers - was there last week so it's still all good. Never had a dud brew there - those gals know how to keep the lines clean (thank god cos there are so many around Melb who don't)! I'll be keeping an eye out if some mystery brew pops up! 

Feeling a little silly. Looks like Kooks earlier post was pointing to the White Rabbit brewery (dig's place) that was next door to Giant Steps where little creatures are possibly proposing their Healesville Brewery. I have my head straight on it now that I took the time to read the link properly. Was a bit of a jigsaw puzzle but think I've put it together  

Hopper.


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## Alex T (7/10/08)

Hi guys,

I had this forum posted to me and thought I would join in. Coming from originally a homebrewing background (Westgate Brewers in Melb), and now commercially involved in brewing as Chief Brewer of Little Creatures, I am interested in your comments.

I have been at the brewery since 2004, and I can attest that we still do things the same way we did back then. Still the same blend of hops, same malt grist, same bottle conditioning, same yeast strains. With regards to the spec's of the beer, we are still making beer that is ~38IBU, 5.2% with a final gravity of around 3degPlato (1.012).

But, things do change! That is one interesting aspect of being a craft brewer. Hops are changing every year, as well as malts. The hoppiness we have been getting in the pale ale out of our old brewhouse was probably a bit lower than we had hoped for. Now in our new brewhouse, it is a different story..... 

Which brings me onto other things that have changed. Our new brewhouse. If anyone lives (or is going to visit) Perth, you have to check this thing out. Brewing has been going for a couple of months, and all will be able to view it in another couple of weeks. The brewhouse produces much cleaner wort (lower DMS, better extraction from the hops, less astringency, etc), the hopback is around 4times the size of the old one (so we can fit more in) and we also have installed an RO plant (in Perth the water is bloody salty). So currently we believe the beers have really cleaned up a lot, the hop and fruit is coming through better than before, and it is heading in the right direction. But no doubt we are still tweaking and are in fact doing a tasting tomorrow to decide the direction - more hops???? Of course these changes take a while to hit all of the bottleshop shelves, so I guess keep watching what goes on with the beer.

I guess what I am trying to say is that our entire crew is keen-as on making wicked beer, and APA is what we are about, so ride out the bumps and your tastebuds will be happy  ....... 

and keep your tastebuds ready for what we will do in Healesville - many discussions are being had behind closed doors, and we intend to strech the limits a bit more.....

Cheers,

Alex


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## Muggus (7/10/08)

Alex T said:


> Hops are changing every year, as well as malts. The hoppiness we have been getting in the pale ale out of our old brewhouse was probably a bit lower than we had hoped for. Now in our new brewhouse, it is a different story.....


Thanks for posting that detailed message Alex! I had a sneaking suspicion seasonal changes in hops and malt could contribute to changes in a beer, and it seems like the overall character of LCPA may change over the years due to that.
Can't wait to see what you guys have in the works!


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## devo (7/10/08)

cheers Alex

I personally don't think much if anything has changed for the worst with LCPA and think it's still an excellent drop.

keep up the good work.


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## MVZOOM (7/10/08)

Awesome Alex, thanks for posting. LCPA is one of those one in a hundred beers that just works - I reckon most of us have seen our favorite beers change, get 'commercialised' or merely cease to exist. I for one am impressed that this isn't the case with LCPA, as it is one of those beers that provides the catalyst for drinkers to become brewers. 

Cheers - Mike


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## MVZOOM (7/10/08)

Oh and BTW, it's great to get a commercial brewer on here that doesn't look down their nose at what we're doing, or the comments that are being made. 

Cheers - Mike


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## Tony (7/10/08)

Hey Katie..... what was your Golden ale recipe? Im brewing one soon. I ordered 2 packs of NZ Styrian goldings flowers a while back from ross and got Amarillo pellets in stead so its the obvious option.

Next oportunity im going to get a bottle to try from the local. I havnt tried a JS golden ale in years. I remember it being fairy sweetly (honey caramel) malty with a bitter hoppy finnish of amarillo.

A good home brew "clone" is always going to be a bigger better "improvement" on the origional though isnt it  Why else would we bother 

cheers


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## pbrosnan (7/10/08)

Thanks for that info Alex. Personally I don't have a very sophisticated beer palate. It either detects "beer I love", "beer I can live with" or "bugger me I can't drink this". LC definitely falls into the first category.


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## trevc (7/10/08)

Welcome to AHB Alex 

Thanks for providing a beer option at the bottle shops! It's much appreciated, really. If you're ever on the GC, the brews on are on me.


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## Tony (7/10/08)

Missed that.......... Hi Alex

Very happy you have stuck your head in on this! 10 points!

I remember LCPA being maltier....... hops were less"bright" if you know what i mean. The maltier beer was better ballanced. I remember (and they all went in a glass to look at) it was darker in colour, not much, just a couple EBC and a bit more body to the beer.

Its not a bad beer. ITs well made, clean, clear ect but its a bit thin and the lower malt character (lager yeast in an APA...... third letter standing for "ALE") makes it a bit astringent and tyring. I can drink one but would drink water before drinking a second.

I hope my criticism is taken constructivly as im not out to dis LC brewing! 10 points to you guys for what you have done for the beer comunity. The beer has its fans... as it should and will but its obvious it has it dertactions also...... not hatred for the beer..... just some comments posible worth taking note of.

cheers


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## tazman1967 (7/10/08)

Thanks Alex for the reply..My last couple beers I have bought havnt been the same. I put this down to seasonal hops and malt variations. Again...great to see a brewer on this forum. Another loyal customer.


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## dr K (7/10/08)

When swill becomes pearls you have to wonder if they were not there all the time.
I taste a lot of beers and there is no doubt in my mind that the "better" commercial beers vary considerably (within a fairly tight range if that makes sense), now I put most of this down to the process between leaving the brewery and getting to me.
When LCPA came out in around 2000 maybe early 2001 they hit the net with some pretty sexy advertising ,as I recall, apart from the Blues Bros ref..we're getting the band back together..was the fact that travelled West to East in refrigerated trucks. I travelled to the only shop in Canberra that apparently had it (in Kingston) paid a motza and was not dissapointed.
I had a bottle less than a week ago and was not dissapointed, has the beer changed, well almost certainly, have my perceptions changed, absolutely definitely.
Personally I have always wondered whether Little Creatures was a reference to the fact it had little creatures in it or a reference to Talking Heads.

K


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## Alex T (8/10/08)

Hey all,

Thanks for the of the input. 

Dr K - I often wonder about talking heads reference or the yeast as well.... but the official answer is the yeast!

Tony - thanks for the comments. It is good there is this forum for all to push a bit back and forth on the beers we like and don't like. I don't expect all to like our version of APA, but at least those on here have tried it and know why they do or don't like it. FYI, we use ale yeast for primary fermentation, and then filter bright and re-innoculate with a lager strain - there are some microbiological reasons for doing so.

I should also mention that we are continually looking at our malts and hops. Current late hop grist is US Cascade with Tassie cascade and US Chinook, with a touch of Galaxy (nice hop from Tassie/Vic). If you guys haven't checked out what is going on in our own local hop industry - you should! There is a lot more than Pride of Ringwood and SuperPride going on...... 

Cheers,

Alex


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## glennheinzel (8/10/08)

Alex T said:


> If you guys haven't checked out what is going on in our own local hop industry - you should! There is a lot more than Pride of Ringwood and SuperPride going on......



You'll be happy to know that you are preaching to the converted, although there are a couple of ardent supporters of fresh Pride.


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## buttersd70 (8/10/08)

Rukh said:


> You'll be happy to know that you are preaching to the converted, although t_here are a couple of ardent supporters of fresh Pride._



Yes, but happily their bicycle helmets and state-sponsored helpers allow them to brew safely. :lol:


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## HoppingMad (8/10/08)

Alex T said:


> I had this forum posted to me and thought I would join in. Coming from originally a homebrewing background (Westgate Brewers in Melb), and now commercially involved in brewing as Chief Brewer of Little Creatures, I am interested in your comments...
> 
> and keep your tastebuds ready for what we will do in Healesville - many discussions are being had behind closed doors, and we intend to strech the limits a bit more.....
> 
> ...



Thanks for filling us in Alex. Good to know there are some brewers out there listening to us 'little guys' and also willing to contribute on the forum and provide some info from the source. There is a lot of talk on AHB about 'megaswill' but it certainly doesn't apply to your brews in my opinion - I think it's great that there's such an interest in APAs in Australia amongst us homebrewers, and I think Little Creatures can take some of the credit for popularising the genre down here. There certainly weren't too many of my homebrewing mates rushing out to use amarillo hops a couple of years ago! 

Am very interested in the new stuff at Healesville (kinda obvious from my posts), and will be down there like a rocket when it opens up. Good to see someone from a club level moving through to the commercial side too. Gives some of us hope!

Hopper.


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## Katherine (8/10/08)

Im a major fan never had a bad word to say. Little Creatures just got it all right in my books and Im not just talking the beer. One handed (PUB) food which is great and unpretentious. People that visit Little Creatures (Im lucky as I live very close) are there for all the same reason good food, good beer GREAT atmosphere. And probably the cheapest place in Perth to get a pint of Little also. 

Can you hurry up and finish the front...LOL!


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## domonsura (8/10/08)

:wub: LC Pale Ale :wub: .......whenever I actually get out of the workshop, I like to call into the Wheaty and treat myself to a pint. I had noticed an increased intensity to the hops last time, but that suits me FINE ......

Top job Alex, and the rest of the crew over there. Love your work. Wish I lived in Freo, but probably better for my liver that I don't :lol: ...........


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## ant (8/10/08)

dig said:


> Stone make an IPA called Ruination


And Russian River and Avery make a beer called "Collaboration Not Litigation" which arose after they found they both brewed a beer called Salvation, and instead of one having to relinquish the rights to the name, they blend the two beers and put it out under joint name. Tasty drop too.

And dig - hope you're working on that West Coast IIPA/DIPA/TIPA you were keen on doing... going to need a hit when I come back next year!


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## dig (8/10/08)

ant said:


> And Russian River and Avery make a beer called "Collaboration Not Litigation" which arose after they found they both brewed a beer called Salvation, and instead of one having to relinquish the rights to the name, they blend the two beers and put it out under joint name. Tasty drop too.
> 
> And dig - hope you're working on that West Coast IIPA/DIPA/TIPA you were keen on doing... going to need a hit when I come back next year!



On the back burner that one... My AIPA from earlier this year (in a different life) picked up a gold and a 'best in class' for draught ale at this year's AIBA... That was a tasty beer and I'd love to have a go at amping that one up to double in the future. You've got to have a dream...


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## Tony (11/10/08)

Alex T said:


> with a touch of Galaxy (nice hop from Tassie/Vic). If you guys haven't checked out what is going on in our own local hop industry - you should! There is a lot more than Pride of Ringwood and SuperPride going on......
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Alex



Already got a Red Ale 100% hopped with it almost done fermenting.

Smells and tastes great from the fermenter

Not really having a go here (well maybe a bit ) but this comment just reeks of the "big boys" industrial perception of the average joes brewing knowledge.

Pride of what?


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## mika (11/10/08)

ant said:


> ... going to need a hit when I come back next year!



Damn...that means you'll be wanting your fridge back <_<


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## Alex T (12/10/08)

Tony said:


> Already got a Red Ale 100% hopped with it almost done fermenting.
> 
> Smells and tastes great from the fermenter
> 
> ...



Hey, wasn't having a go, but to be honest heaps of brewers I have spoken to (both pro and amateur) in the past couple of years have assumed that Aussie hops are all about Pride of Ringwood and that's it. The guys in Tassie are doing a lot of work to change that perception, and I'm on board. Tassie Hallertau, Cascade, Saaz - all wicked, just to name a few.

I remember entering two "Wort Hogs Pale Ale Mania" in Melbourne and winning Best of Show a couple of times with an APA that strongly featured Pride's. My philosophy is that you can make wicked beer with all local ingredients, just need to know how to use 'em. For example, I always preferred Joe White amber malt over UK stuff anyday......

Cheers,

Alex


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## Batz (12/10/08)

Alex T said:


> Hey, wasn't having a go, but to be honest heaps of brewers I have spoken to (both pro and amateur) in the past couple of years have assumed that Aussie hops are all about Pride of Ringwood and that's it. The guys in Tassie are doing a lot of work to change that perception, and I'm on board. Tassie Hallertau, Cascade, Saaz - all wicked, just to name a few.
> 
> I remember entering two "Wort Hogs Pale Ale Mania" in Melbourne and winning Best of Show a couple of times with an APA that strongly featured Pride's. My philosophy is that you can make wicked beer with all local ingredients, just need to know how to use 'em. For example, I always preferred Joe White amber malt over UK stuff anyday......
> 
> ...




+1

And POR has it's place.Super Pride is an affordable bittering hop,at 60 min. addition it as good anything else IMO
The new Summer Saaz is fantastic,only tried a sample from the fermenter but this pilsner is going to be a winner

Batz


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## winkle (12/10/08)

:icon_offtopic: +1 for Summer Saaz Pilsener - noice. :icon_cheers:


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## Alex T (12/10/08)

Hey,

There are actually two different varieties of Tassie Saaz - "Southern" and "Summer" from memory. Southern is much more like traditional Cz Saaz, and Summer is quite a bit more lemony from my memory.

But hey, both a cracker...

Alex


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## hairofthedog (10/12/08)

i know this question has been asked & answered more than once but has anyone got any ideas for a LCPA hop schedule


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## mika (10/12/08)

Browndog seemed pretty confident of this

If you know it's been discussed before, why not search ?


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## Jase71 (10/12/08)

Simply because this thread has been bumped, I would like to mention that I had a few LC Bright Ales last Saturday at the Toxteth in Glebe. It was my first taste of this beer, and whoa mama, I loved it more than words can describe! 

Anyway, back to the business at hand. Carry on, gents.


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