# KK - 'Fermentasaurus' conical PET fermenter



## BrutusB

Hey guys, 

Anyone have any thoughts on the soon to be released (February) KK PET fermenter?

You can see it here if you haven't already: http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/

They've indicated on their facebook it will be $129RRP for the 'Standard' kit: http://www.oxebar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fermentasaurus-Gravity-System.jpg
and an additional $40 for the 'pressure kit': http://www.oxebar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Fermentasaurus-Pressure-Lid.jpg

The total height including the airlock is 940mm. The Diameter of the stainless wire base at the widest point is 395mm.

Let my know your thoughts/concerns if any. 

Thanks!


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## Dan Pratt

I like it. Pressure rating for transfer is a plus and ferment under pressure. Clear for full view ferment and Trub and yeast trap for pre and post ferment.

Handles on the stand would be a good idea?


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## BrutusB

Pratty1 said:


> Handles on the stand would be a good idea?


Agree - I can imagine moving that shape would be pretty tricky when it's got 25L of Wort in there.


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## Black Devil Dog

I like the look of them, but stubborn Krausen might be difficult to get to when cleaning.


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## mr_wibble

How big is it ?
Page doesn't say (or I can't read).

Hope it's 60 litres


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## BrutusB

Mr Wibble said:


> How big is it ?
> Page doesn't say (or I can't read).
> 
> Hope it's 60 litres


First title on the page '*Fermentasaurus 35L'.. *

They mentioned within the FB post that it's the max size they can make on the machine due to the cone shape.


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## Zorco

Looks cool


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## amarks6

Am seriously looking at these.

Only downside for me is that at present, I can fit two 25 L plastic fermenters into my fermentation fridge, whereas I will only be able to fit in one of these conicals.


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## Rod

I think I can work out how there is no need to rack

can you bulk prime , assuming you still need to bottle which can lead to irregular or uneven carbonation )

looks good and the need to man handle (lift) racked fermentors which can be heavy 

will wait for the video


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## BrutusB

Black Devil Dog said:


> I like the look of them, but stubborn Krausen might be difficult to get to when cleaning.


I've asked the question. I'd be hoping it's >4". Don't expect a reply as they're closed but will let you know what I find out.


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## warra48

Interesting, but would wish to know the life expectancy of the fermenter before budgeting for one.


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## BrutusB

warra48 said:


> Interesting, but would wish to know the life expectancy of the fermenter before budgeting for one.


Good point! Are KK a sponsor by any chance?


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## Robbo2234

If it could be wall mounted I would be in! 
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5wu8VX-rBtE/maxresdefault.jpg


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## jyo

warra48 said:


> Interesting, but would wish to know the life expectancy of the fermenter before budgeting for one.


I would also be wondering whether boiling water could be used to rinse / sanitise given that it's only PET.


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## EalingDrop

Will need to start looking at getting a bigger fermentation fridge now...


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## Lager Bloke

Can only see that pressure relief valve is rated @35psi-was under the impression that 22psi was top end of the range that yeast was viable-above that and there was a chance of killing yeast which increased the higher the pressure went-my 2c's worth


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## koolkuna

Hey guys my understanding is that the pet fermenter is disposable. I've heard rumours that they are reasonably priced. KK needs to comment on this.


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## Weizguy

...but can it be used for no-chill like my stainless vessels?


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## jibba02

Lager Bloke said:


> Can only see that pressure relief valve is rated @35psi-was under the impression that 22psi was top end of the range


Just because the prv is rated at 35psi doesn't mean you have to pressurise at only that pressure.


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## sp0rk

Yeah, I know PET is less oxygen permeable than HDPE, but for the ability to no chill in, I'll be sticking with HDPE or Stainless :/
an SS Chronical or DIY kegmenter is looking like my best choice




jibba02 said:


> Just because the prv is rated at 35psi doesn't mean you have to pressurise at only that pressure.


It's a pull type relief valve like on cornies, you can't set individual pressures


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## 5150

Lager Bloke said:


> Can only see that pressure relief valve is rated @35psi-was under the impression that 22psi was top end of the range that yeast was viable-above that and there was a chance of killing yeast which increased the higher the pressure went-my 2c's worth


You will still need to use a spunding Valve when pressure fermenting.


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## BrutusB

BrutusB said:


> I've asked the question. I'd be hoping it's >4". Don't expect a reply as they're closed but will let you know what I find out.


KK have replied 'It's similar to a corny keg..Don't have exact dimensions as we're closed and on holiday but can check after the 9th'

Sounds like cleaning shouldn't be an issue.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Lager Bloke said:


> was under the impression that 22psi was top end of the range that yeast was viable-above that and there was a chance of killing yeast which increased the higher the pressure went-my 2c's worth


This is one of those things that seems to be endlessly repeated but doesn't appear to have a basis in facts.

Increasing the CO2 pressure will slow yeast growth, mostly due to the increased solubility of CO2. The pressure at which growth is effectively stopped varies with yeast strain and conditions, the lowest I could find quoted in a reliable source was 300 kPa, on the other hand the yeasts used in MC wines survive at 500 - 600 kPa.

Fermentation doesn't stop when the yeast stops growing in these conditions but the slower growth will mean less yeast and slower fermentation. This is, BTW, the effect you are exploiting in the first place: the slower growth reduces the demand for lipid synthesis, since ester production is tied to lipid synthesis it is also reduced.

The pressure effect can be partially alleviated by feeding the yeast with an organic nitrogen supplement. It can also be alleviated by preconditioning the yeast: yeast grown under moderate pressure will adapt to higher pressures faster.


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## jibba02

sp0rk said:


> Yeah, I know PET is less oxygen permeable than HDPE, but for the ability to no chill in, I'll be sticking with HDPE or Stainless :/
> an SS Chronical or DIY kegmenter is looking like my best choice
> 
> 
> It's a pull type relief valve like on cornies, you can't set individual pressures


The prv intended purpose is to prevent the fv becoming a bomb.


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## droid

I like it and I really like their 50ltr kegs too


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## Rod

Rod said:


> I think I can work out how there is no need to rack
> 
> can you bulk prime , assuming you still need to bottle which can lead to irregular or uneven carbonation )
> 
> looks good and the need to man handle (lift) racked fermentors which can be heavy
> 
> will wait for the video
> 
> 
> HI Brutus ,
> 
> back at work yet
> 
> Rod


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## Matplat

Looks pretty cool, but, for us lowly bottlers, I can't see a tap for your bottling wand. Come to think of it, where do you get gravity samples from?


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## malt junkie

Matplat said:


> Looks pretty cool, but, for us lowly bottlers, I can't see a tap for your bottling wand. Come to think of it, where do you get gravity samples from?


If you're pressure fermenting: a pluto gun off the liquid ball lock

Otherwise: after removing the sediment bottle( you need to close the tap before doing this) take sample from base, I dare say they'll include a barb connection for transfers from the same point. 

If you time your sediment bottle changes well, you'll have the easiest trub free yeast harvesting ever.


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## BrutusB

Rod said:


> HI Brutus ,
> 
> back at work yet
> 
> Rod


Hey Rod - I think you're confused that I work for KK, I don't. Sorry. Although, the staff discount would be nice


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## Rod

looks like nobody is back at work 

or has not read the topic and can answer the questions


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## BrutusB

Rod said:


> looks like nobody is back at work
> 
> or has not read the topic and can answer the questions


I don't think they're a sponsor therefore they aren't allowed to post.


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## crowmanz

BrutusB said:


> I don't think they're a sponsor therefore they aren't allowed to post.


They have an account and do post http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/87902-keg-king-intertap/?p=1324940

But profile says: Last Active May 26 2016 05:52 PM


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## Rod

the fermenter looks good

but , I bulk prime and bottle and need to know if this fermenter will do this


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## malt junkie

KK responded in another thread regarding their sourcing in China, and the quality control steps that entails, he also touched of the R&D and production of this particular product, and that it was being produced here in Australia on their own new specific production line.

No I can't remember the specific thread or I'd link.

From what he stated in that thread, a lot of problems in days past have been from Manufacturers going off script, and trying to rip a couple of cents a unit more for themselves. KK now have a facility in China where ALL their goods are inspected for quality prior to being ship down under.

Not a fan boy and I have no affiliation, but from what KK have stated, you'd have to say they have gone to great lengths, to try and sort their quality control issues, I don't think we can ask more than that from a supplier.

And lets face it, this is new manufacturing taking place here in Australia, I say we get behind it.


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## Meddo

The version without the ball-lock lid has a rotating racking arm:

http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/


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## wide eyed and legless

Saw the fermenter in the shop the other day, also caught a glimpse of the 65l Robobrew.


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## Meddo

Fermenter on sale yet weal?


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## crowmanz

malt junkie said:


> KK responded in another thread regarding their sourcing in China, and the quality control steps that entails, he also touched of the R&D and production of this particular product, and that it was being produced here in Australia on their own new specific production line.
> 
> No I can't remember the specific thread or I'd link.


Here is that thread

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/92677-ferment-condition-and-pressurise-in-one-vessel/?p=1422559


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## sp0rk

malt junkie said:


> KK responded in another thread regarding their sourcing in China, and the quality control steps that entails, he also touched of the R&D and production of this particular product, and that it was being produced here in Australia on their own new specific production line.
> 
> No I can't remember the specific thread or I'd link.
> 
> From what he stated in that thread, a lot of problems in days past have been from Manufacturers going off script, and trying to rip a couple of cents a unit more for themselves. KK now have a facility in China where ALL their goods are inspected for quality prior to being ship down under.
> 
> Not a fan boy and I have no affiliation, but from what KK have stated, you'd have to say they have gone to great lengths, to try and sort their quality control issues, I don't think we can ask more than that from a supplier.
> 
> And lets face it, this is new manufacturing taking place here in Australia, I say we get behind it.


I've been a big detractor of KK for quite a while due to shoddy products, but with recent improvements, I'm certainly changing my opinion of them.
currently considering buying some Intertap taps...


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## wide eyed and legless

Still not going to be sold until mid February, I, like warra 48 would like to know the life expectancy of the vessel, looks a bit flimsy but a replacement shouldn't be too expensive.


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## wobbly

Copied from the other topic where KK explained their China procurement policy and spoke about the cost of too;ling etc for this product 

_ The Fermentasaurus product is just about to hit the market and this* production line to make these has been over 1.5mil alone* to setup this business and none of it was from Alibaba. I think i can honestly say that we have spent more money on new product design and development than any other Home Brew Hardware wholesaler in Australia which is why there are a lot of new products that we have made and heaps more that are in the pipeline._


If the going price is to be under $150 as posted a number of times in these topic threads then they are going to have to sell thousands and thousands of them just to recover their development costs or the price will be substantially higher than what people are expecting/hoping to pay for them.

Wobbly


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## BrutusB

wobbly said:


> Copied from the other topic where KK explained their China procurement policy and spoke about the cost of too;ling etc for this product
> 
> _ The Fermentasaurus product is just about to hit the market and this* production line to make these has been over 1.5mil alone* to setup this business and none of it was from Alibaba. I think i can honestly say that we have spent more money on new product design and development than any other Home Brew Hardware wholesaler in Australia which is why there are a lot of new products that we have made and heaps more that are in the pipeline._
> 
> 
> If the going price is to be under $150 as posted a number of times in these topic threads then they are going to have to sell thousands and thousands of them just to recover their development costs or the price will be substantially higher than what people are expecting/hoping to pay for them.
> 
> Wobbly


The same machine also makes PET kegs which seem to be the primary focus of the http://www.oxebar.com.au/ website. I'd say that's their main market and the fermenters are a nice side project.


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## Mattwa

wobbly said:


> If the going price is to be under $150 as posted a number of times in these topic threads then they are going to have to sell thousands and thousands of them just to recover their development costs or the price will be substantially higher than what people are expecting/hoping to pay for them.
> 
> Wobbly


Well it's not like they're limited to the Australian market. I'm sure they could sell heaps to the yanks.


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## malt junkie

wobbly said:


> If the going price is to be under $150 as posted a number of times in these topic threads then they are going to have to sell thousands and thousands of them just to recover their development costs or the price will be substantially higher than what people are expecting/hoping to pay for them.
> 
> Wobbly


This isn't the only product coming off that same production line They will also be producing 30L and 50L PET kegs, I note no Noise around those for the HB market, so I'm guessing with the light weight low cost benefits these will be hitting the craft scene and where KK will be making their real money from the venture,

And over the next couple of years if the first one I get works as well as I expect, then I'd collect more than 2 or 3.


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## BKBrews

malt junkie said:


> This isn't the only product coming off that same production line They will also be producing 30L and 50L PET kegs, I note no Noise around those for the HB market, so I'm guessing with the light weight low cost benefits these will be hitting the craft scene and where KK will be making their real money from the venture,
> 
> And over the next couple of years if the first one I get works as well as I expect, then I'd collect more than 2 or 3.


Man I would buy a tonne if they would make some 25L!


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## Judanero

Just checked it out and to me looks good, I am intrigued but will wait to see what the price is to see the value.

OT: If your fermentation fridge had a tap on it, wouldn't this more or less do the same thing as a WilliamsWarn?


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## 5150

They are up on their site.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Saw one in action at Grain and Grape in Yarraville this week. I was quite impressed. I think I'll be buying two after vintage.


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## Lionman

$130 at grain and grape. 

Not sure it's really worth it as I have doubts on durability.

Does it actually off much over a bucket fermenter? Does it make beer better?


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## Digga

I wonder what the 50L model (assuming that they will make one) will be cost wise. Atm with the fermenter started kit is $130 and the pressure kit being $40 .The kegmenter seems to be alot better value at $100 more and stainless. Suppose the only downside is that you can't see the active ferment..
I wonder if they will lower the cost of the 30ish liter one in time??


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## Leyther

I thought about these and for me they would be a logisitcal nightmate, I brew in my kitchen as I dont have gas or water in the garage, I then fill the fermentor and transport it to the garage, carrying a 23L plastic bucket to the garage is fun on its own, add the weight of glass and the risk of damaging it then it would be even worse, once in the garage the fermentor is placed into my fermenting fridge, again I think the space required for this and the stand would be touch and go to get it in, finally when its fermented and you want to chill and serve then again due to size it would severley limit the number of cornys that can fit into the fridge.

Just some things to bear in mind. Nice idea just not convinced by the practicalities of it.

BTW I got email from IKegger spruiking these the other day so I suspect they are now freely available.


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## Leyther

Just noticed its actually not glass, its 'Fermenter Body: High Molecular Length PET' but would still be interested to know if thats a lot heavier than your typical plastic bucket fermentor.


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## Dae Tripper

Leyther said:


> Just noticed its actually not glass, its 'Fermenter Body: High Molecular Length PET' but would still be interested to know if thats a lot heavier than your typical plastic bucket fermentor.


It is basically a big coke bottle, it would be as light as a feather.


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## Jack of all biers

malt junkie said:


> No I can't remember the specific thread or I'd link.


Posts 33 & 35 if you haven't found it already. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/92677-ferment-condition-and-pressurise-in-one-vessel/page-2


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## professional_drunk

Bought one of these. Haven't fermented in it yet but here are some things I've noticed that may not be obvious.

There is an attachment spigot that you screw onto the bottom of the valve. You can then push on a silicon hose for draining the beer.
There are wire carry handles built in.
No thermowell but I plan on taking a square of stubby holder and sandwiching a temp probe between the wire stand and the fermenter body.
Has a use by date on the pressurized use printed on the body. After this it's recommended to be tested or not used under pressure. Not sure where to get it tested.
Comes with a stick on volume marker and temperature strip.
Screw on bottle is also pressure rated so you can keep the butterfly valve open and let the yeast drop in.

Even though it's early, quite happy with it so far. Hopefully the experience of using it is good enough so that I can dump my various fermenters collecting in the garage.


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## bradsbrew

Not being able to clean with boiling water is a killer for me.


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## Bribie G

You'd think, considering the huge number of KegMate fridges they have sold and will continue to sell, that they would have come up with something that would fit into one? Shorter and squatter?
I'd really like one but no way in a fit am I going to shell out an extra grand for a purpose made cabinet.


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## crowmanz

professional_drunk said:


> Has a use by date on the pressurized use printed on the body. After this it's recommended to be tested or not used under pressure. Not sure where to get it tested.


How long is the rating? on your second point KegKing have said in another thread that the replacement body will only be ~$40



KegKing said:


> The body of the fermenter is however eventually going to wear out and this can be replaced for AUD$39.95 so it's not expensive to replace if it's damaged for whatever reason. I think they will last most home brewers several years before needing to be replaced.


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## kaiserben

Bribie G said:


> You'd think, considering the huge number of KegMate fridges they have sold and will continue to sell, that they would have come up with something that would fit into one? Shorter and squatter?
> I'd really like one but no way in a fit am I going to shell out an extra grand for a purpose made cabinet.



They're bringing out a new fridge shaped to fit these Fermentasauruses. The fridge will be able to heat and cool. But I'm not expecting it to be cheap.


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## Rod

I will need to check the dimensions of my fridge , which I only use when it is hot , to see if it will fit in 

of course will need to find out the dimensions of the Fermentasauruses


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## Liam_snorkel

these are pretty sexy, I'll probably get one.



bradsbrew said:


> Not being able to clean with boiling water is a killer for me.


I thought that would be an issue when I first got a couple of Better Bottles (they're PET), but an overnight soak with napisan or PBW takes care of it. More stubborn krausen gets an extra day.


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## Dan Pratt

Can these be drilled to add a thermowell?


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## Droopy Brew

Im sure they could but I would expect a pressure ferment would then be out of the question.


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## malt junkie

Pratty1 said:


> Can these be drilled to add a thermowell?


I'd be willing to try though it maybe $40 down the drain.


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## Dae Tripper

malt junkie said:


> I'd be willing to try though it maybe $40 down the drain.


This is an optional accessory so I cant see why not.
http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/


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## Gloveski

Gash Slugg has a unboxing video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5koXMMyCrI&sns=em


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## Hpal

I wonder if they've considered the effect of light on the beer given that it's a clear fermenter.


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## professional_drunk

crowmanz said:


> How long is the rating? on your second point KegKing have said in another thread that the replacement body will only be ~$40


Mine is dated 18/7/2019 so roughly 2.5 years


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## meathead

Picked mine up yesterday and am stoked.
The possibilities this thing offers are endless.
Easy re use of yeast.
Pressure transfer to keg
Dispense straight from fermenter
Easy dry hop

Time will tell


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## Brewnicorn

Any completed brews from these bad boys yet?


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## professional_drunk

Yep. Finished one batch, onto my next.
Really like this. Am considering dumping all my other fermenters.


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## sbowler

professional_drunk said:


> Yep. Finished one batch, onto my next.
> Really like this. Am considering dumping all my other fermenters.


Did you get much sediment sticking to the sides? 

Do you think you were able to bottle/keg more (less lost to trub) than your old fermenters?


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## professional_drunk

sbowler said:


> Did you get much sediment sticking to the sides?
> 
> Do you think you were able to bottle/keg more (less lost to trub) than your old fermenters?


A little bit. Most went into the bottle catcher thing.

Definitely. I'm using the pressure kit so it draws beer from the top which is bloody awesome. I used to use better bottles and drawing turbulence resuspends the stuff at the bottom. The conical bottom helps too.

If you buy one of these, I reckon the pressure kit and a spunding valve are mandatory buys.


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## stewy

I think the Catalyst looks like a better conical option. Can handle boiling temps for steri, also has a large butterfly valve to dump trub/harvest yeast

https://craftabrew.com/products/the-catalyst-fermentation-system


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## sbowler

The catalyst is similar but I don't think you can ferment under pressure?


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## malt junkie

Dimentions on the catalyst site would have been good too.


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## stewy

sbowler said:


> The catalyst is similar but I don't think you can ferment under pressure?


Not sure, but don't think so. What advantage are you looking for by fermenting under pressure?


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## Liam_snorkel

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/66163-fermenting-under-pressure/


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## professional_drunk

I'd go catalyst if the choice was between that and the standard fermentasaurus. Having different size jar catchers would be good. It also looks more sturdy.
But add the pressure kit and top draining capability, I'd choose the fermentasaurus.


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## stewy

Thanks Liam. It seems the perceived benefits are lower ester production & cleaner flavours. 

Recently John Blichmann did an experiment of fermenting the same Pilsner wort in normal conditions at lager temps vs pressurised ferment at higher temps (to test the ester/fusels hypothesis), the tasters unmanimously identified the higher temp pressurised beer in a blind triangle test. It was on Brewstrong pod. Their comments were that while it was a nice beer it had a fruitiness that you don't get from typical crisp pilsners.


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## NealK

Just read the reviews and it might be better to wait for the next generation catalyst if that's the way you are leaning.

link - http://www.northernbrewer.com/catalyst-fermentor

edit - the dimension are on this link too.


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## Meddo

Got two fermentasaurs, first one has a batch of DIPA in it, first impressions were good enough that I went and grabbed a second.

A couple of learnings from the first fermentation. A whole shiteload of cube hops tipped into the fermenter settled straight away and clogged up the butterfly valve - the neck may be fine for decanting yeast slurry but it seems like hop matter will bind up too much. The other thing is that when trying to get a sample via the floating dip tube it also immediately clogged up with dry hop material in the beer-out post. I've remedied that by removing the poppets from the post and a disconnect and have left the disconnect with a picnic tap permanently attached.

Absolutely loving the show through the clear PET 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgMEn-ulCW8


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## sbowler

Meddo said:


> A whole shiteload of cube hops tipped into the fermenter settled straight away and clogged up the butterfly valve -


What do you mean by cube hops? Did they end up falling into the container after a while, or were they completely stuck?

EDIT: nice video too.


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## DreWill

I have also brewed and am drinking an IPA i put down a couple of weeks ago. First pressure brew and first yeast harvest! Reached FG in 4 days, crash chilled and carbed in 7, transferred to keg under pressure, Awesome! 
All went well until dry hopping, I added 100g of pellets straight to the collection bottle as demonstrated in the KK you tube demo only to have them expand in the bottle and clog everthing up.
I purchased additional collection bottles so next time I'll tip smaller amounts in through the top and change the bottles and see how that goes!
Also, didn't clear much while crash chilling but I put that down to the hop matter clogging the butterfly valve!


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## Meddo

sbowler said:


> What do you mean by cube hops? Did they end up falling into the container after a while, or were they completely stuck?
> 
> EDIT: nice video too.


Cube hops from no-chilling. Some of them eventually fell through but not all. Next time I'll pour into the fermenter through a hops sock to prevent them getting in in the first place. The remainder and the loose dry hops seem to have disappeared which means they're probably mixed in with the yeast slurry, I haven't bothered trying to harvest the yeast from this batch so I'm not too worried about that.



DreWill said:


> I have also brewed and am drinking an IPA i put down a couple of weeks ago. First pressure brew and first yeast harvest! Reached FG in 4 days, crash chilled and carbed in 7, transferred to keg under pressure, Awesome!
> All went well until dry hopping, I added 100g of pellets straight to the collection bottle as demonstrated in the KK you tube demo only to have them expand in the bottle and clog everthing up.
> I purchased additional collection bottles so next time I'll tip smaller amounts in through the top and change the bottles and see how that goes!
> Also, didn't clear much while crash chilling but I put that down to the hop matter clogging the butterfly valve!


Yeah I decided against using the bottle for adding dry-hops, aside from anything else (clogging issues) I have real doubts about the effectiveness of spraying CO2 into the bottle through the neck to purge it. I suspect it's just a great way of introducing oxygen to the beer when it bubbles up from the bottom. I added my dry hops just before the end of fermentation through the top, could see through the clear PET that the yeasties were still up and about and hence still producing CO2 to dilute and force out most of any oxygen introduced to the headspace.

My beer has cleared up nicely, everything settled out as it should in the cone.

Big fail on the KK spunding valve. I had it venting slowly at about 0.5 bar, came back in the morning and it was hard against the 1 bar stop - was probably much higher than that.


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## mtb

I'm with Hpal on the UV exposure. Surely that has a negative impact. It's the main reason I went for the iBrew kegmenter instead


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## Meddo

Fair enough, doesn't really bother me though - the brew/FV lives inside a fermenting fridge in a carport lacking much natural light so reckon it'll be fine. The upside of being able to see the amount of yeast activity (roiling beasties), beer clarity, stratification of beer/yeast/krausen/trub/hops and progress of crash chilling seems pretty handy to me - especially as a reasonably inexperienced brewer learning the specifics of how everything progresses.

Been a good learning experience for me seeing how loose dry-hop flowers behave throughout the fermentation process (I know it's not standard practice but was curious and thought I'd give it a crack). Not sure whether it's something I'll repeat - proof will be in the drinking - but it has been interesting watching them transition from half-submerged initially, to rafting high and dry on top of the krausen, to being mostly submerged when krausen falls, to settling out into the cone through CCing. Might not be efficient but it sure is pretty


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## meathead

Just fermented my first batch with this. Removed yeast collecting jar. There's a lot of trub in there. Which is ok, but if I just pitch the whole thing in the next batch and so on, isn't the whole jar gunna be trub eventually. What are others doing?


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## mtb

I imagine the jar is intended to collect trub & yeast for yeast rinsing, not direct pitch into a new batch.


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## rude

Collect twice first time dump 2nd time harvest


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## BrutusB

rude said:


> Collect twice first time dump 2nd time harvest


My plan is:
Day 1 - dump trub
Day 2 - dump trub again if required
Day FG - dump yeast
Dry hop
Day 4/5 of dry hop - dump hop matter


----------



## meathead

BrutusB said:


> My plan is:
> Day 1 - dump trub
> Day 2 - dump trub again if required
> Day FG - dump yeast
> Dry hop
> Day 4/5 of dry hop - dump hop matter


Yeah I reckon that's the way to go
No worries about oxygen in the wort early on?


----------



## BrutusB

meathead said:


> Yeah I reckon that's the way to go
> No worries about oxygen in the wort early on?


I had this worry also - I'm going to hook-up the gas post to c02 so it'll be taking in c02 rather than oxygen to fill the head space.


----------



## wobbly

Just fill the bottle with the fermenting/fermented wort as it's going to fill with that anyway when you reattach it and open the valve

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Meddo

My experience so far (one ferment finished, two currently underway) is that the butterfly valve is too narrow to dump trub or hop matter without CO2 pressure as it just binds up and forms a plug.

Using pressure may get it moving but I found out the hard way that it can release that plug pretty suddenly... (read: explosively)


----------



## BrutusB

Meddo said:


> My experience so far (one ferment finished, two currently underway) is that the butterfly valve is too narrow to dump trub or hop matter without CO2 pressure as it just binds up and forms a plug.
> 
> Using pressure may get it moving but I found out the hard way that it can release that plug pretty suddenly... (read: explosively)


Wonder if it's worth trying a brew without using finings in the kettle? Maybe will flow a little easier as it won't be as clumped up.


----------



## professional_drunk

The trick might be to keep the valve open all the time. If you close it, a plug forms.
I'm only 2 batches in so not an expert.


----------



## BrutusB

professional_drunk said:


> The trick might be to keep the valve open all the time. If you close it, a plug forms.
> I'm only 2 batches in so not an expert.


I was just about to reply with this - good thinking!


----------



## SBOB

professional_drunk said:


> The trick might be to keep the valve open all the time. If you close it, a plug forms.
> I'm only 2 batches in so not an expert.


If you look at the much loved WW brewing setup videos, thats how they utilise their butterfly valve on the bottom.
Makes sense to keep it open the whole time and it fill up with the crap that settles first, though I wonder if you'll run into issues closing it if its prone to 'plugging' up


----------



## meathead

Absolutely keep valve open.
Close valve after 24hrs
Take jar off and dispose of contents
Attach clean sanitised jar
open valve
oxygen shouldnt hurt brew at this stage
close valve after say 7 days
take off jar, seal, place in fridge ready for next brew


----------



## professional_drunk

I was thinking about taking the zero oxygen exposure one step further and using a magnet on the outside and inside to hold some container of gelatin/polyclar. For hops, maybe a little hop bag. Pull the magnet off and the contents drop into the beer.
Anyone got any ideas about this?


----------



## Rod

Rod said:


> the fermenter looks good
> 
> but , I bulk prime and bottle and need to know if this fermenter will do this


any thoughts on this


----------



## Lionman

Rod said:


> any thoughts on this


You should be able to bulk prime in a single vessel.

You can remove the yeast/trub out the bottom, add sugar to the top, dissolve, bottle.


----------



## professional_drunk

Rod said:


> any thoughts on this


You'd need to drain from the bottom which I wouldn't be keen on due to dragging stuff out from the lowest point. You could punch a hole for a racking port but you wouldn't use it for pressure any more.
Depends which way you want to go.


----------



## Lionman

professional_drunk said:


> You'd need to drain from the bottom which I wouldn't be keen on due to dragging stuff out from the lowest point. You could punch a hole for a racking port but you wouldn't use it for pressure any more.
> Depends which way you want to go.


There is an official rack arm butterfly valve accessory if you don't want to draw from the bottom. I can't see why this would affect pressurisation?

http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/


----------



## professional_drunk

Lionman said:


> There is an official rack arm butterfly valve accessory if you don't want to draw from the bottom. I can't see why this would affect pressurisation?
> 
> http://www.oxebar.com.au/fermentasaurus/


Once you punch a hole in the body, it says somewhere it's not to be used under pressure.


----------



## Meddo

Good thoughts re keeping the valve open, had the same thought myself for the second and third batches I've done, unfortunately it hasn't worked. I'll post a pic when I have a PC to reduce the photo file size but even with a fine hop filter (while filling the FV, for cube hops) and the valve open the trub still formed a plug. Only about 6-8mm of trub in the bottle with a litre or so remaining in the cone.

I'm not super concerned because I'm not planning on harvesting yeast from the bottle anyway, but a larger valve would certainly improve usability.


----------



## Lionman

professional_drunk said:


> Once you punch a hole in the body, it says somewhere it's not to be used under pressure.


Fair enough. Cant see it being a huge problem though unless we are talking fairly high pressures. What is a typical pressure someone would be putting this thing under?


----------



## Meddo

Only rated for 2.4 bar from memory


----------



## rude

34.8 psi not bad could do a good brew at that or under to help push everything down


----------



## meathead

meathead said:


> Absolutely keep valve open.
> Close valve after 24hrs
> Take jar off and dispose of contents
> Attach clean sanitised jar
> open valve
> oxygen shouldnt hurt brew at this stage
> close valve after say 7 days
> take off jar, seal, place in fridge ready for next brew


Followed this yesterday except I took jar with trub off after 6 hours.
This morning trub layer in jar less than 1cm and definite seperate yeast layer.
Good bit of kit


----------



## Dan Pratt

I'm a bit worried the 1 inch butterfly valve and the 500ml bottle for large dry hop beers like IPAs. 

Anyone dry hopped with 5g/L?


----------



## slcmorro

Pratty1 said:


> I'm a bit worried the 1 inch butterfly valve and the 500ml bottle for large dry hop beers like IPAs.
> 
> Anyone dry hopped with 5g/L?


Dry hop in the collection bottle with the valve open?

I don't have one but is this viable?


----------



## wobbly

Couple of points FYI 
1. This fermenter has most likely been designed with K&K brews in mind that have been centrifuged as part of the production process much the same as the WW unit I have was. Not saying you cant ferment your own produced fresh wort, which many do, just that you will have to be a lot more pedantic about process in particular keeping as much trub both hot and cold break out of the unit due to the very small sediment bottle.
2. Using the sediment bottle to add hops for dry hopping isn't very successful due to the small size. The sediment bottle on the WW is almost twice the capacity and you can't really add more than 50g of hop pellets. One trick is to add your hop pellets and then top up with boiling water allow to stand for 5 mins and then reattach. The "hot" pellet mix will float up through the wort but will resettle again pretty quickly.
3. What a number of WW brewers do is place the hops into a hop bag along with a couple of marbles and a couple of ping pong balls (trial and error to get the right balance) such that the hops float under the surface but don't sink. This is generally done towards the end of the ferment by removing the top adding the hops and pressurising again with Co2. The hop bag can be fished out after your chosen number of days 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## XaxisYcross

I have one of these and am quite impressed. I love that you can open the ferm fridge and get a great view of what stage your ferment is up to. Also, using the pressure kit I am convinced the ferment is quicker and cleaner tasting. I had a blonde ale in with 1272 american ale 2 and I swear it was done and dusted at 1.008 in 4 days from a 1.042 OG.

My primary concerns are introducing oxygen when switching out the collection bottle/dry hopping and also what pressure to set my spunding valve to. I set mine to around dispensing pressure ~12psi. Tastes great. I'm just not sure what it should be set to! This is my first foray into pressure fermenting.

Either way. If you have the space and the means, I would recommend one. Keg King have done well in my opinion.


----------



## slcmorro

wobbly said:


> This fermenter has most likely been designed with K&K brews in mind


How did you come to this conclusion? Legit question.


----------



## sbowler

iKegger video review is up:

https://youtu.be/bOPzH78I-7Q

Good to see it in action


----------



## Jack of all biers

slcmorro said:


> How did you come to this conclusion? Legit question.


What he's saying is that because of the small bottle one needs to keep additional sediment down, which is easier with K&K. This is due his experience with twice the size sediment bottle which he struggles to do the same with his WW. Interesting take with his experience in a similar unit.


----------



## keedoery

DreWill said:


> I have also brewed and am drinking an IPA i put down a couple of weeks ago. First pressure brew and first yeast harvest! Reached FG in 4 days, crash chilled and carbed in 7, transferred to keg under pressure, Awesome!
> All went well until dry hopping, I added 100g of pellets straight to the collection bottle as demonstrated in the KK you tube demo only to have them expand in the bottle and clog everthing up.
> I purchased additional collection bottles so next time I'll tip smaller amounts in through the top and change the bottles and see how that goes!
> Also, didn't clear much while crash chilling but I put that down to the hop matter clogging the butterfly valve!


We would not recommend adding 100grams of hops at one time in the collection bottle. They swell up too much and can clog the valve.

If you want to add 100 grams then simply use the collection bottle to add 30grams, then change over the bottle then repeat this step. Definitely 100grams in the one collection bottle will swell up too much and this will be an issue. Please use maximum 30 grams at a time.


----------



## keedoery

XaxisYcross said:


> I have one of these and am quite impressed. I love that you can open the ferm fridge and get a great view of what stage your ferment is up to. Also, using the pressure kit I am convinced the ferment is quicker and cleaner tasting. I had a blonde ale in with 1272 american ale 2 and I swear it was done and dusted at 1.008 in 4 days from a 1.042 OG.
> 
> My primary concerns are introducing oxygen when switching out the collection bottle/dry hopping and also what pressure to set my spunding valve to. I set mine to around dispensing pressure ~12psi. Tastes great. I'm just not sure what it should be set to! This is my first foray into pressure fermenting.
> 
> Either way. If you have the space and the means, I would recommend one. Keg King have done well in my opinion.


There are ways to reduce the oxygen exposure during bottle change overs. Some solutions include:

1. purge the bottle with CO2 prior to attaching to the fermenter.
2. Fill with boiled water before connection but this will dilute your beer down slightly so your recipe should be adjusted to account for this.
3. Dispense some beer into the collection bottle using the pressure kit. The pressure kit will extract clear beer from the top of the fermenter then you can fill the yeast collection bottle with this then re-attach to the dump valve.

Any one of these methods will significantly reduce the oxygen exposure during bottle change overs.


----------



## keedoery

Jack of all biers said:


> What he's saying is that because of the small bottle one needs to keep additional sediment down, which is easier with K&K. This is due his experience with twice the size sediment bottle which he struggles to do the same with his WW. Interesting take with his experience in a similar unit.





slcmorro said:


> How did you come to this conclusion? Legit question.


We find this a strange conclusion.

During the development of this product all brews that we did were with all grain beers. At Keg King all the staff involved in the development of this product are all grain brewers. At Keg King Springvale if you walk into our home brew store in Springvale we are one of the very few stores in Australia where you simply don't see a K&K beer kit on the shelf and we do not promote or endorse K&K ingredients or hardware in any way and the Fermentasaurus is no exception to this.

Certainly you can use the Fermentasaurus for K&K but it's by no means designed specifically for K&K.


----------



## keedoery

wobbly said:


> Couple of points FYI
> 1. This fermenter has most likely been designed with K&K brews in mind that have been centrifuged as part of the production process much the same as the WW unit I have was. Not saying you cant ferment your own produced fresh wort, which many do, just that you will have to be a lot more pedantic about process in particular keeping as much trub both hot and cold break out of the unit due to the very small sediment bottle.
> 2. Using the sediment bottle to add hops for dry hopping isn't very successful due to the small size. The sediment bottle on the WW is almost twice the capacity and you can't really add more than 50g of hop pellets. One trick is to add your hop pellets and then top up with boiling water allow to stand for 5 mins and then reattach. The "hot" pellet mix will float up through the wort but will resettle again pretty quickly.
> 3. What a number of WW brewers do is place the hops into a hop bag along with a couple of marbles and a couple of ping pong balls (trial and error to get the right balance) such that the hops float under the surface but don't sink. This is generally done towards the end of the ferment by removing the top adding the hops and pressurising again with Co2. The hop bag can be fished out after your chosen number of days
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


1. The Fermentasaurus has been designed for all grain brewing.
2. If you are using the yeast collection for hop additions we would recommend that you only use 30grams at a time. Then remove the yeast collection bottle then re-attach again a couple days later. If you really want to use bottles of larger capacity we should also let you know that 1L sodastream bottles have the same thread. We designed our dump valve so we use a compatible thread with sodastream bottles.
3. We have not tried this marbles and pin pong balls trick but will have to try this and see what it's like.


----------



## keedoery

Pratty1 said:


> I'm a bit worried the 1 inch butterfly valve and the 500ml bottle for large dry hop beers like IPAs.
> 
> Anyone dry hopped with 5g/L?


There is no issue using up to 5g/L but if you wanted to do this we can give you the following advice:

1. If you use the yeast collection bottle to add hops do not add more than 30grams for one yeast collection bottle.
2. If you dump all the hops into the top of the Fermentasaurus at once then please make sure you regularly change the collection bottle as soon as it fills up. Collect the fallen hops then change over with an empty one as soon as it's full.
3. Make sure to keep the dump valve in the open position. The only time the dump valve should be closed is when you are changing over the yeast collection bottles. During normal fermentation you should always have the valve open and a bottle in place. If you leave stuff collecting at the bottom of the cone with the valve closed you will risk clogging as the sediment and hops start to collect.


----------



## keedoery

professional_drunk said:


> Once you punch a hole in the body, it says somewhere it's not to be used under pressure.


Just to clarify this point.

If you are half decent at drilling holes and drill in the thick part of the cone as we have recommended in the video there is a good chance that it will easily hold pressure. The issues is its simply impossible for us to guarantee that it will hold pressure as we cannot be sure how well our customers have drilled the holes themselves.

In my opinion i simply do not like using the rotating rack arm as it's simply not as good as using the floating dip tube. I know it's a bit more expensive but without the pressure kit and a CO2 bottle i feel that you are not taking advantage of the Fermentasaurus to it's fullest potential. I personally only draw beer from the floating dip tube.


----------



## keedoery

KegKing said:


> There is no issue using up to 5g/L but if you wanted to do this we can give you the following advice:
> 
> 1. If you use the yeast collection bottle to add hops do not add more than 30grams for one yeast collection bottle.
> 2. If you dump all the hops into the top of the Fermentasaurus at once then please make sure you regularly change the collection bottle as soon as it fills up. Collect the fallen hops then change over with an empty one as soon as it's full.
> 3. Make sure to keep the dump valve in the open position. The only time the dump valve should be closed is when you are changing over the yeast collection bottles. During normal fermentation you should always have the valve open and a bottle in place. If you leave stuff collecting at the bottom of the cone with the valve closed you will risk clogging as the sediment and hops start to collect.





KegKing said:


> There is no issue using up to 5g/L but if you wanted to do this we can give you the following advice:
> 
> 1. If you use the yeast collection bottle to add hops do not add more than 30grams for one yeast collection bottle.
> 2. If you dump all the hops into the top of the Fermentasaurus at once then please make sure you regularly change the collection bottle as soon as it fills up. Collect the fallen hops then change over with an empty one as soon as it's full.
> 3. Make sure to keep the dump valve in the open position. The only time the dump valve should be closed is when you are changing over the yeast collection bottles. During normal fermentation you should always have the valve open and a bottle in place. If you leave stuff collecting at the bottom of the cone with the valve closed you will risk clogging as the sediment and hops start to collect.


4. Do not draw product from the floating dip tube until the hops have sunk out of suspension. If you use a high amount of hops they can block up the dip tube. You can clear out a dip tube with back pressure if you really stuff it up but really i recommend waiting for hops to settle before drawing product from the floating dip tube. I have heard of some customers using a dip tube filter but honestly i think it's best just to wait for the hops to sink. This normally happens after 2 days.


----------



## wobbly

KegKing said:


> 1. The Fermentasaurus has been designed for all grain brewing.


No worries
My Experience and hence comment has been with my Williamwarn unit and their subsequent newer 10, 25, and 50lt units are basically targeted at their own kits but having said that they are equally suitable for fresh wort kits and wort produced in an individuals set up.

The point I was trying to make was the need to be a lot more pedantic about process in particular keeping as much trub both hot and cold break out of the unit due to the very small sediment bottle. The fact that the unit will take a 1lt soda stream bottle as the sediment trap will be a plus for many

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

What thread are the PET sodastream bottle? I'm keen to see if I can employ this dump valve on my Chronical, as a downside of a SS FV is you can't see what you're dumping until it's out and making a mess with the force you need to dump it, so sitting this clear bottle at the bottom with the dump valve left open is a great idea. The SS/glass sight glasses are too long for my 7gal to sit on the bottom of the cone.
So are there adaptors that screw soda steam thread to 1.5" triclamp?
Also can someone please measure the overall height of the yeast collection bottle from the fermantasaurus?


----------



## malt junkie

Would drilling a hole be the easiest option for adding a thermowell, or are you planning/considering including a thermowell in the lid at some point in the future?

Ed: I just feel having the thermowell in the lid would make it simpler to clean as it is already a removable part.


----------



## NealK

Any idea when the pressure kit will be available again?


----------



## meathead

How about bulk priming in this.
Would you transfer some fermented wort to jar, top up jar with priming solution, put jar back on, open valve, wait a month?


----------



## keedoery

meathead said:


> How about bulk priming in this.
> Would you transfer some fermented wort to jar, top up jar with priming solution, put jar back on, open valve, wait a month?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea when the pressure kit will be available again?
> 
> 
> 
> Approximately 10th May.
Click to expand...


----------



## keedoery

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> What thread are the PET sodastream bottle? I'm keen to see if I can employ this dump valve on my Chronical, as a downside of a SS FV is you can't see what you're dumping until it's out and making a mess with the force you need to dump it, so sitting this clear bottle at the bottom with the dump valve left open is a great idea. The SS/glass sight glasses are too long for my 7gal to sit on the bottom of the cone.
> So are there adaptors that screw soda steam thread to 1.5" triclamp?
> Also can someone please measure the overall height of the yeast collection bottle from the fermantasaurus?


The sodastream bottles us a double helix thread which we have not found anywhere else other than in our yeast collection bottles and sodastream bottles. 

I am sorry we have no plans to make an adaptor to Tri-clamp at this stage.

our yeast collection bottle is just under 14cm high.


----------



## barls

keg king read your pms please.


----------



## mr_wibble

So I'm about to do my 2nd batch - do I add the bulb to the bottom (and open) right from the start, or open the valve once when you want to dump ?
or something else?

EDIT: Just found the instructions. One opens the valve *after* fermentation. (doh!)

While I'm wasting everyone's time: the KK spunding valve - there's no scale on this, is there an OK initial setting?
Half a rotation off closed?
(I've *never* used this before).


----------



## meathead

I have the valve open from the get go with the jar in place


----------



## wobbly

Mr Wibble said:


> do I add the bulb to the bottom (and open) right from the start, or open the valve once when you want to dump ?
> or something else?
> 
> EDIT: Just found the instructions. One opens the valve *after* fermentation. (doh!)


Not wanting to counter what KK might be recommending but for what it's worth the instructions that come with my WW state to leave the bottom valve open all the time during the ferment and that's what I do with no ill effects on fermentation and the yeast is able to settle into the sediment bottle as and when it wants to after having done its job

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## mr_wibble

My Munich Dunkel in the fermentasaurus is going well.
Since I'm new to using the spunding valve, I've been checking it twice a day.





I like the clear plastic, it's very interesting to see what's going on inside the fermenter.
The last few days the lager has been fermenting like crazy. The pressure was up to about 7kPa (the max pressure rating I read later is 35kPa), and I got a bit worried that it was too much and twiddled the spunding valve. 
The next day the pressure had dropped to zero (doh!). For now I've lubed up the spunding valve so it's a bit less twitchy.

Anyway, all-up I'm quite happy with my fermentasaurus purchase.

PS> Since everyone asks when they see it - The silver ball is a s.steel float for the pickup tube. It keeps the tube floating about 5-10mm below the surface of the beer.


----------



## sbowler

Hey Mr wibble,

What's the elastic band thingy you're using to hold the thermometer on?


----------



## blotto

Mr Wibble said:


> My Munich Dunkel in the fermentasaurus is going well.
> Since I'm new to using the spunding valve, I've been checking it twice a day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mit spunding.jpg
> 
> I like the clear plastic, it's very interesting to see what's going on inside the fermenter.
> The last few days the lager has been fermenting like crazy. The pressure was up to about 7kPa (the max pressure rating I read later is 35kPa), and I got a bit worried that it was too much and twiddled the spunding valve.
> The next day the pressure had dropped to zero (doh!). For now I've lubed up the spunding valve so it's a bit less twitchy.
> 
> Anyway, all-up I'm quite happy with my fermentasaurus purchase.
> 
> PS> Since everyone asks when they see it - The silver ball is a s.steel float for the pickup tube. It keeps the tube floating about 5-10mm below the surface of the beer.


Looks great, can't wait to get one to give it a go. Just trying to figure out what to do for a spunding valve.


----------



## Digga

sbowler said:


> Hey Mr wibble,
> 
> What's the elastic band thingy you're using to hold the thermometer on?


I would have to say looking at it, is one of them seals out of your standard fermenter lid.


----------



## mr_wibble

sbowler said:


> Hey Mr wibble,
> 
> What's the elastic band thingy you're using to hold the thermometer on?


It's a bit of "ocky-strap" cord, from the local non-bunnings hardware, where I can buy it by the metre.
Probably can get it a lot of places, including bunnings, BCF, camping shops, etc.

I use it also for holding the yoga-mat insulation around my mash-tun & HLT.
Except there I need two rings.


----------



## Drewski

Will beer overcarb without a spunding valve attached? Seems like this should really be sold with the spunding valve or it is not going to work real well as is?


----------



## rude

Ive just started using a spunding valve first 3 days are constant checks

You dont want more than 15 psi apparently bad for the yeast

Having said that I have fallen for the gauge all the way round trick (too much pressure ) twice now 
but due to constant checks have realised within 12 hours & rectified

Wont happen again I hope beers have come out well 2 Kolschs one on top of cake farken nice :icon_drool2:

My fermenter is stainless dont think I could go back to plastics now but all comes down to price


----------



## malt junkie

Drewski said:


> Will beer overcarb without a spunding valve attached? Seems like this should really be sold with the spunding valve or it is not going to work real well as is?


If you started fermenting with the pressure kit, with no spunding, the ferment would pressurise the fermenter to the rated pressure of the safety valve (PRV) if the PRV failed you've basically got a bomb, no it probably won't be spectacular, but it will be loud and destroy the fermenter, oh and make a mess. KK would have done some tests on catastrophic failure, those video's would be fun to see (just cause watching things go bang is pretty awesome).


----------



## mr_wibble

The pressure does a few different things to the beer.

One of the key points, is that fermenting under pressure reduces ester formation. This happens "naturally" in tall (huge) fermenters due to the weight of the liquid on itself. So say you were brewing a style which wanted less-esters (e.g.: lagers), you can ferment under pressure, but at warmer temperatures. The increased temperature gives a faster ferment, saving your mega-brewery time & money. Personally I don't care about this.

The reason I'm interested, well - primarily I'm interested just for the sake of it. (I'd have to take up frickin' knitting or jousting if I didn't do this sort of stuff) ; Ahem. The reason I'm interested is that the beer comes out of fermentation carbonated. And this sounds like a nice idea.

The pressure probably does a bunch of other things I don't know about too.


----------



## malt junkie

MHB and others posted a lot of info regarding the effects of pressure on fermentation in previous threads on the subject. I'm not saying DASFFS, but it's too early to be chasing links.


----------



## oxebar

Drewski said:


> Will beer overcarb without a spunding valve attached? Seems like this should really be sold with the spunding valve or it is not going to work real well as is?


Depends, if you are fermenting below about 25 degC then you will likely overcarbonate if you are not using a spunding valve to relieve pressure. You can unscrew the PRV from the pressure lid and insert a blow lock in the same hole at the beginning of fermentation. If you know your target FG and monitor the gravity then you can return the PRV at the correct time to naturally carbonate. There is no need to swap lids during fermentation or use a spunding valve if you don't have one. Alternatively you can let it ferment out with the blow lock and then prime with the desired amount of sugar/wort and return the PRV to carbonate.



malt junkie said:


> If you started fermenting with the pressure kit, with no spunding, the ferment would pressurise the fermenter to the rated pressure of the safety valve (PRV) if the PRV failed you've basically got a bomb, no it probably won't be spectacular, but it will be loud and destroy the fermenter, oh and make a mess. KK would have done some tests on catastrophic failure, those video's would be fun to see (just cause watching things go bang is pretty awesome).


We do multiple burst tests each day to make sure that the tanks are consistent, these are done hydraulically; it is quite spectacular when it is done pneumatically. The PRV is the primary safety on the fermenter; if the PRV gets blocked and fails to open then the lid seal will blow out and pressure releases past the cuts in the thread. We have not been able to produce a failure in a tank when using standard lids and seals that have not been tampered with.
We have had reports of some lid seals blowing out before the PRV opens. This can usually be remedied by making sure lid is tightened firmly enough, and only seems to be an issue when people are pressure fermenting without a spunding valve. We definitely suggest using a spunding valve for fermenting under pressure as it can be set at a more suitable pressure level for the yeast than that of the built in PRV.




malt junkie said:


> If you started fermenting with the pressure kit, with no spunding, the ferment would pressurise the fermenter to the rated pressure of the safety valve (PRV) if the PRV failed you've basically got a bomb, no it probably won't be spectacular, but it will be loud and destroy the fermenter, oh and make a mess. KK would have done some tests on catastrophic failure, those video's would be fun to see (just cause watching things go bang is pretty awesome).


----------



## oxebar

Oops, quoted you twice in that post malt junkie.


----------



## oxebar

Mr Wibble said:


> So I'm about to do my 2nd batch - do I add the bulb to the bottom (and open) right from the start, or open the valve once when you want to dump ?
> or something else?
> 
> EDIT: Just found the instructions. One opens the valve *after* fermentation. (doh!)
> 
> While I'm wasting everyone's time: the KK spunding valve - there's no scale on this, is there an OK initial setting?
> Half a rotation off closed?
> (I've *never* used this before).


As Wobbly suggests, I find it best to open the valve from the start. 
I might have to review those instructions now that we have had a bit of feedback.



wobbly said:


> Not wanting to counter what KK might be recommending but for what it's worth the instructions that come with my WW state to leave the bottom valve open all the time during the ferment and that's what I do with no ill effects on fermentation and the yeast is able to settle into the sediment bottle as and when it wants to after having done its job
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


----------



## Drewski

My spunding valve is on the way from keg king, i did not actually realise you could remove the PRV and use an airlock or blowoff. 

My first beer in it i opened the bottom valve after a few days, second beer i did open from start. It does seem better to open from the start i must say, saves waiting for the trub to settle after opening.


----------



## a1149913

Anyone got any pics of how to clean this thing?


----------



## meathead

I put mine in the shower on the stand
Hot water to rinse and a soft brush to get the crud off
Soak overnight hot water nappysan
Rinse


----------



## bradsbrew

oxebar said:


> As Wobbly suggests, I find it best to open the valve from the start.
> I might have to review those instructions now that we have had a bit of feedback.


Yes definately have it open, imagine the look on my face as all that air bubbled up through my near finished beer.

Although next time I am thinking of having my yeast in the container, oxygenate the wort, then open the valve.

It also works very well for dry hopping.

Drinking from the fermenter has never been easier and it's carbonated.

Cheers


----------



## wobbly

bradsbrew said:


> Although next time I am thinking of having my yeast in the container, oxygenate the wort, then open the valve.


Standard procedure with my WW.

If dry hopping the best you will get in the standar sediment bottle is about 30g pellets where as if you are using the soda stream bottle you should be able to add about 50g pellets. Add the hop pellets and then half fill the bottle with boiling water and let sit for 5 mins then top up with beer from the tap so as to eliminate any Oxygen reattach the bottle and open the valve. The hot/warm hops will float up through the brew before setiling back into the sediment bottle

Wobbly


----------



## professional_drunk

On my 3rd batch now. Just some notes:

Cleaning is quite easy if your use to cleaning better bottles. Add some sodium percarb and 40c water. Swish around. If there's something stuck to the sides, I roll it around on my lap while watching tv until it's gone.
Keg King spunding valve is a pain to get it set accurately. If releasing pressure, don't go by the sound. Make small adjustments and come back after an hour to see what pressure you're at.
Emptied the fermenter through a filter into a keg. Worked beautifully.
Make sure you detach the bottle as soon as you close the butterfly valve. If you leave it on, it can explode yeast all over the place if it builds up pressure and you take it off later.


----------



## mr_wibble

meathead said:


> I put mine in the shower on the stand
> Hot water to rinse and a soft brush to get the crud off
> Soak overnight hot water nappysan
> Rinse


Mrs Wibble always makes lewd comments when I shower with my fermenter & kegs.
I'm must rinsing them, honest!


----------



## mr_wibble

Jacob Thomas said:


> Anyone got any pics of how to clean this thing?


No Pics, but:

I disassembled mine (not the butterfly valve though), all these bits can just be washed-up in the sink by hand.
That leaves the "bulb". I rinsed the krausen-ring off with hot tap-water (50C). It wasn't a difficult ring this time though, some set like concrete.
Then put the lid back on, and swirled around cleaning solution (the bulk white powder from LHBS). The bulb is pretty lightweight, easy to handle.
Finally I rinsed it out with the hand-held shower-head thingy, in the shower-recess.

One minor negative, is that my arms are too big to fit into the lid-hole. I'd like it another couple of centimetres here.


----------



## BrutusB

Finally put down my first brew on Saturday in the Fermentasaurus.

10% Abv Imperial Stout

Directly after pitching:




Within 15 hours:



I let the pressure build up in those 15 hours, did an initial vent then connected the blow-off tube. 

I've never seen that much activity in a bucket so quickly and it's still hammering today.

All going well!


----------



## Jase

BrutusB said:


> I let the pressure build up in those 15 hours, did an initial vent then connected the blow-off tube.
> 
> I've never seen that much activity in a bucket so quickly and it's still hammering today.
> 
> All going well!


Hi BrutusB,

Are you considering fermenting under pressure or are you happy to continue to use the blow off tube process?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## BrutusB

Jase said:


> Hi BrutusB,
> 
> Are you considering fermenting under pressure or are you happy to continue to use the blow off tube process?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


For the moment I'm sticking with the blow off tube - I'd like to ferment under pressure but the available options for a spunding valve/PRV seem a bit hit and miss at the moment.

I'm following the progress with some home made solutions in:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/90341-spunding-valve/?p=1452989

Hopefully Mardoo reports back with good news.


----------



## w1nta

Hi all, I'm looking at buying a Fermentasaurus and really appreciate all the info in this thread, I have read the whole lot thanks everyone. I have a noob question though... I still bottle my brews by bulk priming and am interested in fermenting under pressure. Can I bottle straight out of the Fermentasaurus (after it has fermented under pressure) cap my bottles and I'm done? Is that going to be the correct volumes of CO2?

Thanks!


----------



## malt junkie

w1nta said:


> Hi all, I'm looking at buying a Fermentasaurus and really appreciate all the info in this thread, I have read the whole lot thanks everyone. I have a noob question though... I still bottle my brews by bulk priming and am interested in fermenting under pressure. Can I bottle straight out of the Fermentasaurus (after it has fermented under pressure) cap my bottles and I'm done? Is that going to be the correct volumes of CO2?
> 
> Thanks!


To bottle and retain carbonation, you would ideally use a counter pressure bottle filler (CPBF) in which case you would also need a Co2 bottle and a regulator. Priming a beer that has been fermented under pressure is hit and miss(risky) as it's hard to say what level of Co2 is in solution already. So ferment with out pressure and you can bottle as normal. Ferment under pressure and you'll need a keg setup OR a CPBF (beer gun would also work though I've not tried one) and Co2 bottle with reg. Obviously there are tips and tricks for using beer guns and CPBFs, though these don't really relate to this thread.


----------



## professional_drunk

w1nta said:


> Hi all, I'm looking at buying a Fermentasaurus and really appreciate all the info in this thread, I have read the whole lot thanks everyone. I have a noob question though... I still bottle my brews by bulk priming and am interested in fermenting under pressure. Can I bottle straight out of the Fermentasaurus (after it has fermented under pressure) cap my bottles and I'm done? Is that going to be the correct volumes of CO2?
> 
> Thanks!


You could potentially release all the pressure and bottle straight away. Would the beer foam up and making bottling impossible if you pass carbonated beer through a bottling wand? Don't know but I'd try a few bottles and keg the rest first to try it out.


----------



## w1nta

Thanks professional_drunk and malt junkie. I suspected it wasn't going to be so simple. I think I'll still get one as I will be moving to kegs soon.


----------



## Lionman

Your bottles won't store as well.

From experience counter pressure filling using a carbonation cap, bottles are not well carbonated and really need to be consumed within a day or two.

I think you would be best served venting the fermenter, bulk priming and bottle conditioning. 

Or move to kegging.


----------



## wobbly

It;s very interesting to note the various comments on both this subject and the pressure fermenting topics that purport to be based on some knowledge base.

Don't exceed 10-15psi pressure when fermenting otherwise the yeast will/may die.
Bottles filled from your pressure fermented beer will not store well
Filling bottles with a counter pressure filler with beer fermented under pressure isn't a real good idea you should depressurize the fermenter and bottle then add back some sort of fermentable for carbonation.
I regularly bottle from my WW and use a counter pressure set up to do it and those beers/bottles keep well for up to 12 weeks (longest I have kept any pale ales) I bottle at 1.5bar (21PSI) and use CO2 to vent the bottle and bring it up to equal or just below the pressure in the WW

There may or may not be a lot of published data on the subject of fermenting under pressure but in any event those that are doing or considering doing it could do a lot worse than down load the Williamswarn owners manual from their site and take on board how they recommend you ferment under pressure, temperatures and time etc.
For example they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) and 4 days at 23C for ales and then cold crash and clarify. For lagers they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) for 3 days at 15C and then raise the temperature to 18C for another three days before cold crashing and clarifying.

There are many on this site that bagged the Williamswarn as being overpriced etc etc but the fact remains that their processes and procedures work and will also work for any pressure fermenting be it in a Fermentasaurus, a keg or any other vessel that will safely withstand upto 3bar (42psi) pressure 

Wobbly


----------



## barls

wobbly said:


> It;s very interesting to note the various comments on both this subject and the pressure fermenting topics that purport to be based on some knowledge base.
> 
> Don't exceed 10-15psi pressure when fermenting otherwise the yeast will/may die.
> Bottles filled from your pressure fermented beer will not store well
> Filling bottles with a counter pressure filler with beer fermented under pressure isn't a real good idea you should depressurize the fermenter and bottle then add back some sort of fermentable for carbonation.
> I regularly bottle from my WW and use a counter pressure set up to do it and those beers/bottles keep well for up to 12 weeks (longest I have kept any pale ales) I bottle at 1.5bar (21PSI) and use CO2 to vent the bottle and bring it up to equal or just below the pressure in the WW
> 
> There may or may not be a lot of published data on the subject of fermenting under pressure but in any event those that are doing or considering doing it could do a lot worse than down load the Williamswarn owners manual from their site and take on board how they recommend you ferment under pressure, temperatures and time etc.
> For example they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) and 4 days at 23C for ales and then cold crash and clarify. For lagers they recommend 1.5bar (21psi) for 3 days at 15C and then raise the temperature to 18C for another three days before cold crashing and clarifying.
> 
> There are many on this site that bagged the Williamswarn as being overpriced etc etc but the fact remains that their processes and procedures work and will also work for any pressure fermenting be it in a Fermentasaurus, a keg or any other vessel that will safely withstand upto 3bar (42psi) pressure
> 
> Wobbly


nope we bagged the owner who came on and called us all uneducated tolls. that was after one question and uncalled for. why do you need to turn every post in to an ad for the product. this is closer that the one on fining where you derailed the whole thread with your pushing of the product, this is not a retail thread for the ww but a different product discussion
so lets stop pushing it and keep to the topic please. there will be no other warnings posts will be edited or hidden.


----------



## malt junkie

Lionman said:


> Your bottles won't store as well.
> 
> From experience counter pressure filling using a carbonation cap, bottles are not well carbonated and really need to be consumed within a day or two.
> 
> I think you would be best served venting the fermenter, bulk priming and bottle conditioning.
> 
> Or move to kegging.


At what rate would YOU bulk prime a partially carbonated beer?????

I'm sure some of our more experienced brewers could come up with something pretty close, if they took extensive notes, and did some complex calculations. Even then most of them would only do so in PET. From where I sit you've just given someone instructions to make bottle bombs.

Using an actual CPBF correctly is a little different to using a carb cap. I just finished the last bottle of a coffee stout I CPBF 2 years ago, taste the same (if not better) as the day I bottled it. I have carb caps, and use them for specific tasks, I have the CPBF for bottling, permanently attached to one of my keezers. If you take the time to learn to use them correctly they work well.

2c


----------



## Lionman

malt junkie said:


> At what rate would YOU bulk prime a partially carbonated beer?????
> 
> I'm sure some of our more experienced brewers could come up with something pretty close, if they took extensive notes, and did some complex calculations. Even then most of them would only do so in PET. From where I sit you've just given someone instructions to make bottle bombs.
> 
> Using an actual CPBF correctly is a little different to using a carb cap. I just finished the last bottle of a coffee stout I CPBF 2 years ago, taste the same (if not better) as the day I bottled it. I have carb caps, and use them for specific tasks, I have the CPBF for bottling, permanently attached to one of my keezers. If you take the time to learn to use them correctly they work well.
> 
> 2c


I can't answer that question although it could be calculated. I would say you would only need to add a small amount to bring the bottle up to pressure. 

I have counter pressure filled from kegs and the beer is not as good as direct from the tap or from bottles that have been naturally carbonated.

The main issue I think is that the bottles lose co2 out of solution. When you remove the filling cap to add the bottle cap the beer is at atmospheric pressure. It will lose co2 into the head space until the pressure has equalised. This on top of the co2 lost during the filling process is enough to end up with a less carbonated beer, which may or may not be an issue depending on the brewer and beer style.


----------



## w1nta

malt junkie said:


> To bottle and retain carbonation, you would ideally use a counter pressure bottle filler (CPBF) in which case you would also need a Co2 bottle and a regulator. Priming a beer that has been fermented under pressure is hit and miss(risky) as it's hard to say what level of Co2 is in solution already. So ferment with out pressure and you can bottle as normal. Ferment under pressure and you'll need a keg setup OR a CPBF (beer gun would also work though I've not tried one) and Co2 bottle with reg. Obviously there are tips and tricks for using beer guns and CPBFs, though these don't really relate to this thread.


One more question on the possibility of bottling pre-carbonated beer from the Fermentasaurus... I have been reading about the Blichmann Beer gun and it sounds like it would do the job of a counter pressure bottle filler but a bit simpler. 

Has anyone used one of these and are their claims realistic?

For a recap, I'm trying to simplify the bottling process and wondering if I can ferment under pressure then carbonate with more pressure if necessary from a CO2 bottle, then bottle my carbonated brew possibly with this beer gun. Another of my pet hates is how long it takes to fill the bottles with just gravity pressure. Such a pain.

https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/blichmann-beer-gun

_Powered by Quiescent Flow Technology, this revolutionary new bottle filler eliminates the complicated, time-consuming operation and cleaning of traditional CP bottle fillers used to fill bottles from kegs while maintaining their primary function – purging a bottle with CO2 (no oxygen pickup) and filling it with minimal foaming and carbonation loss. Couple that with the auto-fill level – and the ability to fill bottles of any depth without modification – and this filler is a clear standout._
_Quiescent Flow Technology is so different and so easy to use that it’s another of our patented innovations! Our filler gradually reduces beer from keg pressure to atmospheric pressure with little turbulence, doing away with the complicated valving and cumbersome use of traditional CP filters. The result is a consistent bottle fill with little foaming and no oxygen pickup._
_Foaming is caused predominantly by turbulence and sudden changes in pressure. The unique design of the BeerGun eliminates the need to pressurize the bottle by providing a non-throttling, quick-acting valve placed at the *bottom *of the filler stem and a beer-delivery system that is very low in turbulence. Competitors place their valve at the top of the filler, which forces the beer down an empty tube each time, kicking up foam along the way. Placing the valve at the bottom not only quickly immerses the valve in the beer but further reduces pressure change and turbulence, keeping the stem full of beer at all times. And because the beer is sealed in the filler stem when the BeerGun is removed from the bottle, it automatically provides a consistent bottle fill level._


----------



## professional_drunk

I think CPBF is more a PITA than natural carbonation. The only reason you should do it is if you're bottling from a keg.
If bottle filling is slow, then use a bit of CO2 to move it along.


----------



## malt junkie

professional_drunk said:


> I think CPBF is more a PITA than natural carbonation. The only reason you should do it is if you're bottling from a keg.
> If bottle filling is slow, then use a bit of CO2 to move it along.


yes, but why is it once a micro goes big it's one of the first things they change.

Yes the blicmann will do the job, the mistake most people make is trying to bottle beer that has been carbonated for service, the beer needs to be slightly over this, if using A CPBF the filling and flushing pressures should be slightly higher again. If you check out some of the fancy 4 bottle jobbies on youtube, you should get a glimpes at what they have their gauges set to, this differs slightly from brewery to brewery 18- 20psi is the ball park.


----------



## Rod

maybe use growlers


----------



## klangers

It isn't hard at all to determine how much CO2 is in solution. You just need the pressure (on the gauge) and temperature (on your fridge), and have given it enough time to equilibriate (days). Then look up a solubility chart. It's all more or less proportional, so if you have half the CO2 volumes you want after fermentation, then knock down your normal priming by 50%. Simple. Ideally you'll carbonate fully in the fermenter to avoid priming.

No need to depressurise anything. Even if you did it's only temporarily; the CO2 would still be in the beer.

If there still is an active yeast in the beer, then there's no reason as to why the pressure-fermented and already-carbonated beer can't last as long as a bottle conditioned beer. It's just to do with the fact that the yeast will eat up any oxygen.

You can bottle from the fermenter but you should invest in at least bottling wand. It'll be like pouring a beer from a keg - you have to control foaming. You can do this either by counter pressure, so the bottle is marginally less pressure than the fermenter (and thus the CO2 stays in solution), or simply by slowing down the flow and filling from the bottom (minimises foaming). Whether or not you then add priming sugar depends on the carbonation level.



> Don't exceed 10-15psi pressure when fermenting otherwise the yeast will/may die.
> Bottles filled from your pressure fermented beer will not store well
> Filling bottles with a counter pressure filler with beer fermented under pressure isn't a real good idea you should depressurize the fermenter and bottle then add back some sort of fermentable for carbonation.



This is 100% untrue. There's a lot of bullshit smoke and mirrors in this thread.


----------



## bradsbrew

Just a word of advice, do not put a picnic tap onto the fermenter once it is carbonated. Somehow what was 22L in the fermenter was only 11L when I got around to kegging. I have no idea or memory what happened to the rest, your honour. :chug: h34r:


----------



## Lionman

malt junkie said:


> yes, but why is it once a micro goes big it's one of the first things they change.
> 
> Yes the blicmann will do the job, the mistake most people make is trying to bottle beer that has been carbonated for service, the beer needs to be slightly over this, if using A CPBF the filling and flushing pressures should be slightly higher again. If you check out some of the fancy 4 bottle jobbies on youtube, you should get a glimpes at what they have their gauges set to, this differs slightly from brewery to brewery 18- 20psi is the ball park.


I must admit, when I have used the CPBF it has been at serving pressure and with CO2 levels at tap serving levels. I haven't tried carbonating a keg purely for bottle filling and bottling the entire lot, but I also don't know why anyone would do that.

I accept that bottling from a Fermentasaurus is a different thing altogether.


----------



## kiwirevo

I just got a fermentasaurus for my birthday and am planning on bottling from it. My plan is to let the beer ferment under the airlock until done, then add the priming sugar to the fermenter with the pressure lid as I don't have a spunding valve, as well as the finings so it should carb & clear nicely. I'll aim for a bit more priming sugar than I'd normally go for to compensate for the lost CO2 during bottling. I don't have a CO2 bottle yet I'll just get a regulator and Sodastream adaptor for the bottling.

First brew will be this weekend, not sure if I'll have the bottling equipment in time so this one may just be bottled normally.



w1nta said:


> One more question on the possibility of bottling pre-carbonated beer from the Fermentasaurus... I have been reading about the Blichmann Beer gun and it sounds like it would do the job of a counter pressure bottle filler but a bit simpler.
> 
> Has anyone used one of these and are their claims realistic?
> 
> For a recap, I'm trying to simplify the bottling process and wondering if I can ferment under pressure then carbonate with more pressure if necessary from a CO2 bottle, then bottle my carbonated brew possibly with this beer gun. Another of my pet hates is how long it takes to fill the bottles with just gravity pressure. Such a pain.
> 
> https://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/blichmann-beer-gun
> 
> _Powered by Quiescent Flow Technology, this revolutionary new bottle filler eliminates the complicated, time-consuming operation and cleaning of traditional CP bottle fillers used to fill bottles from kegs while maintaining their primary function – purging a bottle with CO2 (no oxygen pickup) and filling it with minimal foaming and carbonation loss. Couple that with the auto-fill level – and the ability to fill bottles of any depth without modification – and this filler is a clear standout._
> _Quiescent Flow Technology is so different and so easy to use that it’s another of our patented innovations! Our filler gradually reduces beer from keg pressure to atmospheric pressure with little turbulence, doing away with the complicated valving and cumbersome use of traditional CP filters. The result is a consistent bottle fill with little foaming and no oxygen pickup._
> _Foaming is caused predominantly by turbulence and sudden changes in pressure. The unique design of the BeerGun eliminates the need to pressurize the bottle by providing a non-throttling, quick-acting valve placed at the *bottom *of the filler stem and a beer-delivery system that is very low in turbulence. Competitors place their valve at the top of the filler, which forces the beer down an empty tube each time, kicking up foam along the way. Placing the valve at the bottom not only quickly immerses the valve in the beer but further reduces pressure change and turbulence, keeping the stem full of beer at all times. And because the beer is sealed in the filler stem when the BeerGun is removed from the bottle, it automatically provides a consistent bottle fill level._


 The blichmann looks like a good option but check out the american blichmann site as they have a newer version.

y plan is to let the beer ferment under the airlock until done, then add the priming sugar to the fermenter with the pressure lid as I don't have a spunding valve,


----------



## bradsbrew

I gave mine a good clean before the first brew went into it. 3 batches under pressure and transferred each brew to kegs, out post to out post.

Might be time for it's second clean....................  Being able to dump most of the cake has created a bit of laziness.


----------



## Dan Pratt

mine arrived today in the mail. looking forward to getting her cleaned and fermenting. B)


----------



## WE5TY

First ferment in the fermentasaurus... my LHBS didn't have the pressure kit so I fermented naturally. Lesson learnt: don't use the airlock that comes with the starter kit. The lid clips on and has tiny holes for gas leak... not for a Krausen monster. This one was fine when I went to bed last night... not so fine in the morning. Still gushing out the top... I cleaned the airlock and in 5 minutes it had blocked again and was under pressure.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Hi all, 

Ran my first batch in the fermentasaurus at 22c and psi of around 12. Bit of fiddling around with the keg King sounding valve but got set. Simple 70/30 ale/wheat 4.5% summer ale. No esters from the warm temp, turned out good.

Second batch currently fermenting at 19c and 9psi. I could turn the spnuding valve a bit but worried it will become 15psi....lol. Nice to watch the yeast at work

What psi are others running at for ferment?


----------



## tugger

I have found not using the bottle at all is better. 
When you dump into a container rather than the bottle it doesn't bubble back into the fermenter. 
Just crack the valve slowly when under pressure.


----------



## Yuz

Hi, noob here , so please forgive the stupid questions 
I'm in the process of setting up the Fementasaurus (non-pressure / standard kit) and just a little puzzled as to what happens to the airlock when:

1) the trub is removed and the empty bottle is re-attached and the valve is cranked open 
2) dry hopping and the semi-empty (with 25g of pellets) bottle re-attached and the valve is cranked open

In both these scenarios, wouldn't the water in the airlock get sucked into the Fermantasarus due to the vacuum formed? Or am I meant to open the bottom valve very slowly?

Also, am I better off making wort to about 22L and add boiled & cooled down water into the small bottle to avoid getting oxygen into the unit? I don't have a CO2 setup (yet), so purging the bottle with gas isn't really an option (as shown in demo vids).

TIA,
Cheers!


----------



## blink471

tugger said:


> I have found not using the bottle at all is better.
> When you dump into a container rather than the bottle it doesn't bubble back into the fermenter.
> Just crack the valve slowly when under pressure.



Thats sound like a great idea. Im currently got one setup with first brew just using airlock and collection bowl. As its my first brew
using it Im still trying to work out best options... and found that having to purge the bowl when replacing back onto fermenter a bit annoying but ok.
Adding dry hops was easy but it stilled bubbled even with trying to purge with C02.


----------



## bradsbrew

Made a bit of a mess this batch. After 4 batches it's going to need a clean. Cleaning the spunding valve may be a different story.
Lucky i am changing yeasts for the next batch anyway.


----------



## blink471

Hi everyone. I as well have just done my first brew using Fermentasaurus. Was wondering how this would work. Brew normally not with pressure lid but using airlock… and then when done, you connect your pressure lid with gas in and putting a serving pressure into the fermenter… and then transfer into a keg? Its not using the barb on the bottom as you still get some sediment… but using the floating pick up and take the beer from the top. This way the beer is not pre carbonated if you want to use bottles, or then put int o a keg. Use a beer line with liquid out from the lid and maybe an inline valve to control flow. Would this work?
Thanks.. Im just learning the best way to use it too.


----------



## bradsbrew

blink471 said:


> Hi everyone. I as well have just done my first brew using Fermentasaurus. Was wondering how this would work. Brew normally not with pressure lid but using airlock… and then when done, you connect your pressure lid with gas in and putting a serving pressure into the fermenter… and then transfer into a keg? Its not using the barb on the bottom as you still get some sediment… but using the floating pick up and take the beer from the top. This way the beer is not pre carbonated if you want to use bottles, or then put int o a keg. Use a beer line with liquid out from the lid and maybe an inline valve to control flow. Would this work?
> Thanks.. Im just learning the best way to use it too.


This would work. For your bottle filling line , you could just use a bronco tap with beer line pushed into its outlet, so you can fill your bottles from the bottom. No messing around with in line valves that way.


----------



## blink471

bradsbrew said:


> This would work. For your bottle filling line , you could just use a bronco tap with beer line pushed into its outlet, so you can fill your bottles from the bottom. No messing around with in line valves that way.


Ok thanks. I hate using a syphon hose and this would make it all easier to keg with out having to lift Fermentasaurus out of fermenting fridge...


----------



## sbowler

blink471 said:


> Brew normally not with pressure lid but using airlock… and then when done, you connect your pressure lid...



Hi. You can use your pressure lid with an airlock. You just unscrew the pressure release valve and then put the airlock in the hole. When your ready to add pressure, you just replace the airlock with the PRV. That way you're avoiding more oxygen exposure/potential contamination through replacing the lid.


----------



## blink471

Oh really? Didnt realise that. On my way to local brew shop to pick up the pressure lid.


----------



## Yuz

Great info, however, if gravity brewed and then using the pressure kit with airlock fitted - is it still possible to bottle via the pressure lid considering the beer isn't fully carbonated?
Or would the Rack Arm be a better option for traditional DIY / gravity brew bottling?


----------



## bradsbrew

Yuz said:


> Great info, however, if gravity brewed and then using the pressure kit with airlock fitted - is it still possible to bottle via the pressure lid considering the beer isn't fully carbonated?
> Or would the Rack Arm be a better option for traditional DIY / gravity brew bottling?


You just need pressure to push it from the fermenter, does not need to be carbed.


----------



## Yuz

Awesome, I was about to drill & fit the Rack arm!
Without much further initial investing into a full-blown CO2 setup (reg'd PRV + full sized CO2 Cylinder), I'm guessing something like a regulator with adapter for the small 16g cartridges will do for bottling?


----------



## blink471

Yuz said:


> Awesome, I was about to drill & fit the Rack arm!
> Without much further initial investing into a full-blown CO2 setup (reg'd PRV + full sized CO2 Cylinder), I'm guessing something like a regulator with adapter for the small 16g cartridges will do for bottling?


Thats what i was thinking too... my first brew was great... but wasn't really happy with drawing the beer through the bottom outlet.. as I still got a bit trub that settled in the bottom even with collector bottle. So naturally wanting clear beer taking from the top is best option. Thanks everyone for input.


----------



## snails07

Has anybody actually used the racking arm? I've just ordered mine and wondering if there is any feedback or tips on using it?


----------



## blink471

snails07 said:


> Has anybody actually used the racking arm? I've just ordered mine and wondering if there is any feedback or tips on using it?


Haven't seen the racking arm... will have a look.


----------



## snails07

I've gone ahead and added the racking arm. Seems like it will work pretty well


----------



## Dan Pratt

snails07 said:


> I've gone ahead and added the racking arm. Seems like it will work pretty well
> 
> View attachment 107849



make sure you pressure test to 20psi before fermenting under pressure


----------



## snails07

I don't have the pressure kit so not doing it under pressure.


----------



## Yuz

Hey Snails, Cooling down my first wort right now, with the 'saurus on stand by 
I think for the Basic Kit, since it's essentially intended for gravity brewing, the rack arm should've been included in the first place.
I picked up the Pressure Kit instead ($10 odd more than the rack arm), but this ends up costing in terms of the CO2 hardware setup - so looks like I'll just get 15 or 65g Cylinders and an adapter / regulator - so once the brew is ready I'll bottle it this way. Still technically gravity / traditional home brew but instead of siphoning brew out for second fermentation I'll be pushing it out with CO2 and bottling immediately. 
Either / or I'm confident the 'saurus will go the distance


----------



## snails07

Yeah I wasn't keen to get involved with pressure and gas etc. It's just another thing for me to f*ck up. I do enough of that without having to worry about something else!!
Everyone seems to love the pressure kits though.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Are peeps concerned when reattaching the yeast dump container on the bottom and that no matter how well you purge/fill it with CO2 gas there is always still a residual bit of air between the neck of the yeast dump container and the butterfly valve that will bubble through the beer? I've got a sight glass on my Chronical now and have the same issue. Wondering if anyone has thought of an ingenious idea/solution to remove that bit of air before opening the container up to the fermenter?


----------



## Yuz

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Are peeps concerned when reattaching the yeast dump container on the bottom and that no matter how well you purge/fill it with CO2 gas there is always still a residual bit of air between the neck of the yeast dump container and the butterfly valve that will bubble through the beer? I've got a sight glass on my Chronical now and have the same issue. Wondering if anyone has thought of an ingenious idea/solution to remove that bit of air before opening the container up to the fermenter?



To avoid introducing oxygen during the trub dump / yeast gathering, I'm thinking of: pre-filling the dump bottle with wort from the 'saurus or, boiling a small amount of Hops, filling the bottle to the brim and re-attaching it. In a way this will be "Dry hopping" (wet hopping) with Hop Tea. Both methods avoid oxygen. I could be 100% wrong but willing to try this.


----------



## Dan Pratt

I re-attach the yeast collection bulb before or during fermentation and open the butterfly valve.

this way the oxygen has no effect on the beer and the yeast starts to fill up in said container.


----------



## Yuz

There's one more litte trick I've read -


Dan Pratt said:


> I re-attach the yeast collection bulb before or during fermentation and open the butterfly valve.
> 
> this way the oxygen has no effect on the beer and the yeast starts to fill up in said container.



Yep - always keep the butterfly valve open when the bottle is attached, and squeeze the bottle a little occasionally to move the trub up/down through the throat - that way it doesn't get stuck. My brew is now into its second day and the bottle is half filled with trub already.


----------



## bradsbrew

Can also use it to rehydrate yeast then attach and open valve after adding oxygen to wort.


----------



## Yuz

Just a quick follow up - the Trub collect bottle works quite well, the trick is to squeeze it now and then to unsettle the trub on the bottom and "invite" it down into the collect bottle. So far about 0.8L trub collected (first & second bottle pic shown, third "batch" is still on the 'saurus).
Now there's a very little amount of settlement left after dry hopping yesterday. Looking to bottle in the next few days


----------



## Beersuit

I tend to leave the bottle on and open during the whole ferment and dont bother removing the trub at all. Using the pressure kit your taking good beer from the top anyway 
I was even thinking about cutting the stand and rewelding shorter to eliminate the height needed to use the trub botttle all together. It will then fit better in my fermenting fridge.


----------



## snails07

Hey Yuz, did you dry hop using the bottle? If so how much did you get in there?


----------



## Yuz

snails07 said:


> Hey Yuz, did you dry hop using the bottle? If so how much did you get in there?


Hey Snails, well, wasn't a "dry hop" as such. I've heated up some water, dropped 25g of hop pallets into the spare collect bottle, filled with hot water, waited to cool down and attached to the 'saurus. The happy hoppies went swimming up and then settled (today). I guess I'm technically diluting the brew but it's 0.5L bottle - isn't much in the 23L batch. I'm guessing introducing 0.5L of oxygen is worse? I could be very wrong but we'll see


----------



## Yuz

Beersuit said:


> I tend to leave the bottle on and open during the whole ferment and dont bother removing the trub at all. Using the pressure kit your taking good beer from the top anyway
> I was even thinking about cutting the stand and rewelding shorter to eliminate the height needed to use the trub botttle all together. It will then fit better in my fermenting fridge.


Yep makes sense but considering this is my first brew in the 'saurus I had to experiment a little  And, the logic behind it I guess is eliminating dead yeast cells and "chewed up" matter for the remainder of fermentation and it gives you a chance to smell / sample and take SG readings (without a CO2 setup in place, which is still in progress for me).


----------



## snails07

Yeah i think I'm going to do that as well. I'm wanting to do 100gm though. Do you think that would work?


----------



## Yuz

snails07 said:


> Yeah i think I'm going to do that as well. I'm wanting to do 100gm though. Do you think that would work?


Has to be less than that apparently... otherwise the throat / valve might clog up and the hops will be stuck in the bottle. Gash Slugg has done a good video review on youtube on this. Also Keg King's instructions as well.


----------



## snails07

Yeah i thought that was only for dry hops. I was thinking with the water in there it might allow more easier flow


----------



## Dan Pratt

my last batch of IPA under 11psi pressure using 007 dry English ale yeast has turned out a bit weird.

just waiting for full carbonation but the yeast was third use under pressure and it may of produced a off flavour in the bitterness.

going to dump the yeast and start again with US05 and lower the pressure to less than 5psi.


----------



## Yuz

Dan Pratt said:


> my last batch of IPA under 11psi pressure using 007 dry English ale yeast has turned out a bit weird.
> 
> just waiting for full carbonation but the yeast was third use under pressure and it may of produced a off flavour in the bitterness.
> 
> going to dump the yeast and start again with US05 and lower the pressure to less than 5psi.



Hey Dan, how are you controlling the pressure? A Spunding valve of sorts? This is something on the horizon for me as well but I've read some mixed reviews about the ones on offer and DIY options..


----------



## Dan Pratt

Yuz said:


> Hey Dan, how are you controlling the pressure? A Spunding valve of sorts? This is something on the horizon for me as well but I've read some mixed reviews about the ones on offer and DIY options..



Using a Keg King pressure relief valve attached to a stainless steel gas disconnect. 

http://kegking.com.au/adjustable-pressure-relief-valve-with-guage.html

http://kegking.com.au/stainless-ball-lock-disconnect-mfl-grey-gas.html

Works pretty good.


----------



## twinathon

Over 5 brews with the Fermentasaurus and love it. A couple points to add:

-using Wyeast London ESB as my house yeast, I find if I let the tub settle in the bottle until fermentation is nearly complete I can get away with dumping the trub in a single bottle cycle. I then reatttach the bottle after 'purging' it with co2 and let the prim yeast drop into the bottle. I only open the butterfly valve slightly, as I find when I is fully open the beer channels through the yeast. I fully dump the second cycle of yeast into a sterilised mason jar and then go for a third cycle. I will finish with close to a letre of prime yeast to repitch.

- Especially with London ESB, I have racked beers into kegs that are brilliant in clarity. This is great if you like taking your kegs on the go as you do not have to worry about any yeast in the keg re-disbursing into the beer.

Overall love it. I am going to purchase the pressure lid soon and start spunding some helles. Keen as.


----------



## bradsbrew

Have to agree, it's a great piece of kit. I would like them to have a larger, squat bottle of say 2L.
I am buying a second one, with pressure kit.
Using my other fermenters has become a bit of a chore.
Would love a 50L SS version


----------



## Zorco

Hoppy days hooked me up today and my Belgian blonde is away. Brad's comments and Gash slugg's video last night tipped me over.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Thanks for the replies guys. I was referring more to having to remove and reattach the dump bottle more than once a batch which would be normal. 

I do have the dump sight glass on my Chronical connected to the FV at the start of the Brew. However even if this sight glass (or dump bottle in fermantasaurus' case) is filled to the brim with sterile water or wort or hop tea (or filled with CO2 gas which I do) there is still a small volume of air that will be trapped in the bottom of the butterfly valve that you cannot avoid. I've tried blowing gently some CO2 into the space as I connect the sight glass but it's not perfect and I am pretty sure a small amount of air (oxygen) will come into contact with the beer once the butterfly is re-opened. It's probably insignificant, but when wanting to brew the best lager that has 100% had zero oxygen exposure it's far from an ideal process, so has anyone given it thought from that perspective?


----------



## Yuz

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I was referring more to having to remove and reattach the dump bottle more than once a batch which would be normal.
> 
> I do have the dump sight glass on my Chronical connected to the FV at the start of the Brew. However even if this sight glass (or dump bottle in fermantasaurus' case) is filled to the brim with sterile water or wort or hop tea (or filled with CO2 gas which I do) there is still a small volume of air that will be trapped in the bottom of the butterfly valve that you cannot avoid. I've tried blowing gently some CO2 into the space as I connect the sight glass but it's not perfect and I am pretty sure a small amount of air (oxygen) will come into contact with the beer once the butterfly is re-opened. It's probably insignificant, but when wanting to brew the best lager that has 100% had zero oxygen exposure it's far from an ideal process, so has anyone given it thought from that perspective?



Hi DJ,
I purged the gas (CO2 and the minuscule amount of oxygen that popped in) once I've done the bottle swap and flicked the valve open. 
With the bottle filled to the brim with "hop tea" I'd be surprised there'd be more than 5ml of oxygen going in, if that. 
I could be wrong of course.


----------



## blink471

Hi all. I found success by not opening the valve into collection bottle for about an hour or two. This allowed a good settle of trub and it seemed to push through ok. I remove the bottle after a few days.. by then there is yeast as well to reuse. I dont put bottle back on and if I need to.. just dump a bit more into a container and throw away. This eliminates and oxygen issues. Of course if dry hopping and you want to use it then you can. On another note... I found using the pressure lid for kegging brilliant. I remove the pressure valve and use the airlock for brewing. Then when ready to transfer to keg.. reattach the valve and put in co2 to about serving pressure. I run from a disconnect into beer line and into keg with just a bronco tap to control flow. Put this into the bottom of keg and it has a nice slow pour without adding unwanted oxygen. Worked quick and clean for me. Loving this fermetasauris.


----------



## bradsbrew

Why not fill the keg using the beer out post? That way no oxygen gets in while you fill.


----------



## Yuz

bradsbrew said:


> Why not fill the keg using the beer out post? That way no oxygen gets in while you fill.


Exactly what I'll be doing once setup for kegging.
The current batch will be bottled though with the same pressure method to extract brew and using the generic $5 bottle filler.


----------



## blink471

bradsbrew said:


> Why not fill the keg using the beer out post? That way no oxygen gets in while you fill.


Yeah... your all over it. Good idea. I was putting some spare items I had to good use but that is better. Im still learning.


----------



## blink471

I guess with the tap its handy to do bottles if there is extra. [emoji16]


----------



## bradsbrew

I have 2 lines. One with a beer disconnect and a picnic tap, the other is two beer disconnects.


----------



## Yuz

bradsbrew said:


> I have 2 lines. One with a beer disconnect and a picnic tap, the other is two beer disconnects.


Brad, do you mean you've got like a Y-splitter of sorts running from the main "beer out" disconnect?
I'd be doing this too but are you concerned about contamination getting in through the tap?


----------



## Dan Pratt

blink471 said:


> Yeah... your all over it. Good idea. I was putting some spare items I had to good use but that is better. Im still learning.


----------



## Lionman

Make sure when transferring under pressure you get all the air out of the keg first. You don't want to push air into solution under pressure.

I have been pressure fermenting in kegs recently and transferred under pressure to a corny. Signs of oxidation after less than a day in the keg in one batch from not properly purging the keg.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Best way to purge the kegs is to fill one to the brim with starsan/idophor. Hook the gas to the keg and then out post to outpost transfer line to another empty keg. You end up with a keg and your transfer line sanitised and completely purged with CO2. I do double batches so need 3 kegs- 1 purged into 2 purged into 3. The 3rd keg is then sealed and used for the next batch.
Make sure when hooking up your outpost line to the pressure fermenter that the pressure inside the fermenter is greater than in the kegs to avoid blow back.
Once hooked up, I connect my spunding valve to the recieving keg and set to allow CO2 to flow out as the liquid fills the keg. This also allows control of the fill rate.


----------



## Lionman

Droopy Brew said:


> Best way to purge the kegs is to fill one to the brim with starsan/idophor. Hook the gas to the keg and then out post to outpost transfer line to another empty keg. You end up with a keg and your transfer line sanitised and completely purged with CO2. I do double batches so need 3 kegs- 1 purged into 2 purged into 3. The 3rd keg is then sealed and used for the next batch.
> Make sure when hooking up your outpost line to the pressure fermenter that the pressure inside the fermenter is greater than in the kegs to avoid blow back.
> Once hooked up, I connect my spunding valve to the recieving keg and set to allow CO2 to flow out as the liquid fills the keg. This also allows control of the fill rate.



Yeah I might start doing it this way. I was worried about the extra CO2 used but its worth it to not stuff up your beer!

How does the volume of CO2 used to purge a keg of sanitiser compare to the volume of CO2 used to carb a keg of beer I wonder?


----------



## Droopy Brew

Just to add to this- you can also filter direct from the fermenter if needed. Same process, just pop the filter in line with the outpost to outpost line and it will also purge and sanitise.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Im not sure Lion man, I but Im willing to bet it is less. A few cents of Co2 to improve $50 and 6 hours of cost to brew a beer i reckon well worth it.
I dont need to do any force carbing anyway as I close the spunding valve and the beer is fully carbed once it hits the keg and ready for immediate consumption.


----------



## Zorco

Recommend the droopy approach. Exactly what I do for all the same reasons. 

Having a dedicated keg for starsan is the best plan as well.

I've smashed all my glass carboys (by accident) and my only fermenters are the kegmenter and the fermentasaurus. Both integrate perfectly into this approach. Prior I racked to a purged keg and then proceeded with the above. Now I have two pressure vessels as fermenters - booyaa


----------



## Zorco

Droopy Brew said:


> I dont need to do any force carbing anyway as I close the spunding valve and the beer is fully carbed once it hits the keg and ready for immediate consumption.



But this only when not filtering right? I watch the filter nucleate every nanogram of CO2 out of my lovely beer. I'm hoping that with the fermentasaurus I'll have cleaner beer without any filtering and will do so less.


----------



## Lionman

Yeah can you filter carbed beer? would have to be super slow flow rate if it works at all. Maybe a really course filter membrane?

I like the idea of dedicated starsan keg. Handly for flushing lines as well as kegs.


----------



## Droopy Brew

Yes no problems filtering carbed beer. It isnt so much the flow rate but pressure differential. As long as the pressure in the receiving container is only slightly less than that in the holding container then there is minimum foaming. Of course this slows it a bit but still probably less than 10 minutes per keg.
Zorco, I find you loose some of the carbonation but not a great deal. A day at serving pressure and it is fully carbed again.
I dont usually filter however this was only a couple of days after cold crash and TC Debbie was looking like giving us a spanking (as you can tell by the bikes and shit in my brewery) so I thought I would need to get that beer out while I had power and a roof over our head and it was still fairly murky. Also needed something to drink while watching the show which luckily for us never eventuated.


----------



## homebrewnewb

Droopy Brew said:


> Just to add to this- you can also filter direct from the fermenter if needed. Same process, just pop the filter in line with the outpost to outpost line and it will also purge and sanitise. View attachment 108106



i didn't know you were such a keen cyclist 
great set up and much to consider in my simple keg filling set up.
i am not sure how i would be able to replicate this out of a fermenter to a 5mm ball lock, i must find away!
Top stuff DB!


----------



## Droopy Brew

Have recently upgraded the tassels and added spokey dokeys. I ******* fly down the driveway now!
You cant do this from a normal fermenter, it has to be a pressure vessel.
Well worth looking into as a future upgrade. You can go the fermentasaurus option or what I have done which is getting a 50L keg, a coupler ,2 ball connects and a spunding valve. All up cost me about $100 and worth every cent.


----------



## homebrewnewb

100 bucks for the spokies and tassles, shit son...
comedy gold i say, once you get that basket on the front, you will be set!

yeah got a stainless FV need to check pressure rating, trust me im close!
may need a spunding valve though.


----------



## Rhodesy

I am based in Scotland where this has just became available, I think I am going to buy one of these. What I was wondering if anyone has a chart or similar which correlates carbonation volume vs temp/PSI? 

For example what is the best temperature to get 2.4 vols of Co2 when fermenting at 18C for an APA/IPA? I will be transferring to a keg in most cases anyway where I sometimes tap it all or other times tap some and bottle some with my beer gun, if unsure I could always ferment under pressure at a low PSI and then hook it up to my usual settings in the kegorator to ensure it is more likely to be undercarbed than overcarbed at this stage.


----------



## malt junkie

This reckoner should help you out.


----------



## Rhodesy

Thanks for this! Do the same rules apply when fermenting under constant pressure?


----------



## malt junkie

Yes, Co2 absorbtion is dependent on temperature, if you read back through the thread, you will note most will either close the spunding or set it higher when they raise temp for D rest, so therefore at the end of ferment the vessel will be at 20-25psi. Upon cold crash you should be at or close to full carbonation.


----------



## Rhodesy

Right got you. I have ordered one of these with the pressure kit this afternoon and also already have a spunding so will be good to go. Thinking I will try it with a Kolsch to start as nice and simple with no dry hops. First couple of runs will be trial and error but all good. Thanks again.


----------



## Vazerhino

I have had a few successes with fermentasaurus. However, yesterday, the pressure kit out became blocked - tried to blow back with CO2 (kind of forcing the gas onto the out post??) and certainly got CO2 back through the out post and into the brew (i.e. it was definitely bubbling). Then again could not draw any beer out to check SG. I tried to increase the pressure with a 16g bulb - the keg king mini regulator stating it got up to 30 psi, without luck. I haven't seen any other solutions bar the CO2 blow-back. Any ideas??

What are people doing to clean and sanitise the pressure kit mechanism?

WRT to the 16 g bulbs - i found it was not sufficient to push out 23 litres last time and had to break the oxygen-free zone to draw out the last of the beer.


----------



## BrutusB

Vazerhino said:


> I have had a few successes with fermentasaurus. However, yesterday, the pressure kit out became blocked - tried to blow back with CO2 (kind of forcing the gas onto the out post??) and certainly got CO2 back through the out post and into the brew (i.e. it was definitely bubbling). Then again could not draw any beer out to check SG. I tried to increase the pressure with a 16g bulb - the keg king mini regulator stating it got up to 30 psi, without luck. I haven't seen any other solutions bar the CO2 blow-back. Any ideas??
> 
> What are people doing to clean and sanitise the pressure kit mechanism?
> 
> WRT to the 16 g bulbs - i found it was not sufficient to push out 23 litres last time and had to break the oxygen-free zone to draw out the last of the beer.



I've had many a thick beer through the out post without it clogging - sure it's not picking up hop debris? 

In terms of cleaning - Hot sodium percarbonate in the fermenter using C02 to push it through the out post and then into a bucket. 

I haven't bothered with bulbs - straight from the 6.5kg bottle using a spare line from the keezer.


----------



## Vazerhino

Certainly could have been hops - it is not a massive brew (grainkids sceptred warrior). Before i give up on an oxygen-free transfer, just more of the same blowing CO2 through the outpost?? Should i be using a liquid disconnect connected on the liquid post to the CO2 bottle, or just the regular gas post held on with a bit of force?


----------



## BrutusB

Vazerhino said:


> Certainly could have been hops - it is not a massive brew (grainkids sceptred warrior). Before i give up on an oxygen-free transfer, just more of the same blowing CO2 through the outpost?? Should i be using a liquid disconnect connected on the liquid post to the CO2 bottle, or just the regular gas post held on with a bit of force?



Don't give up - patience. Either will do. 

I recently made a NEIPA with a total of 300g of dry hops (mix of flowers/pellets) and didn't have an issue with the posts being blocked. 

Key is a good cold crash and make sure the pickup tube avoids picking up any debris near the bottom. I had one flower start blocking the intake. Gas off, tap the side of the fermenter to move the pickup tube away from the flower and connect again.


----------



## Yuz

Just on a slightly diff topic - Bulk priming in the 'saurus - for bottling.
Curious if anyone has tried bulk priming through the Liquid disconnect? I'm thinking releasing all pressure and feeding 150g Dextrose (diluted in say 200ml water) though the disconnect. The sugar mix would be quite dense (about 1.2 SG) so it should settle through the wort I think?
Then bottle straight away.
Any comments?


----------



## Zorco

Probably an easy thing and a good option. I'd be exploring buying a sounding valve, literally just picked up now from Steve, and using the main ferment to develop carbonation. Unless bottling carbed is a pain.... bit messy.

But defo a plan Yuz.


----------



## kiwirevo

Is there any update on the fermentation chamber / fridge for the fermentersaurus?


----------



## bradsbrew

Lent my picnic tap to a mate. 

So the ferment fridge now has it's own Celli tap.


----------



## bradsbrew

A sixty litre version would be good.


----------



## winkle

You have a HAL2000 fridge? "Open the fridge door HAL" "Get stuffed Brad"


----------



## Yuz

bradsbrew said:


> A sixty litre version would be good.


Good luck carrying it but yeah if you brew in the same area that would be good + larger dump bottle.
BTW, I find the Saurus is piss easy to clean, compared to conventional buckets.


----------



## Dan Pratt

A few handy upgrades for Version 2


larger butterfly valve, either 2 or 3 inch. The current 1 inch is less with the octagonal fitting and jams up with hops.

ability to have thermowell on side with pressure rating.

bigger yeast bottles either 750ml or 1lt


----------



## bradsbrew

I like the idea of a 1L yeast bottle too. Would need to be short and fat to fit.


----------



## snails07

Larger butterfly valve and bigger yeast bottle would be great.


----------



## simchez

Great bit of kit. Watching the yeast in action, quicker ferment, easy keg transfer under pressure, naturally carbonate. 
Want to start reusing yeast to save a bit of cash whats the best way? Do you need to wash the yeast or just chuck the sediment bottle in fridge till next time?


----------



## simchez




----------



## simchez

If you wanted a bigger bottle you could use a soda stream bottle?


----------



## bearbeerbare

Couple of questions re fermentasarus ‘s

Has anyone tried a 30L batch ?
Has anyone noticed large reductions in fermenting times?


----------



## bradsbrew

Yes and yes


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Dan Pratt said:


> A few handy upgrades for Version 2
> 
> 
> larger butterfly valve, either 2 or 3 inch. The current 1 inch is less with the octagonal fitting and jams up with hops.
> 
> ability to have thermowell on side with pressure rating.
> 
> bigger yeast bottles either 750ml or 1lt



Hey Dan, you can use sod-stream bottles that are larger. Might have to rise the stand so they fit. Just my 2 cents


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Sorry I didn’t read the whole post, before adding a comment that was already said.


----------



## buckerooni

pssssst, just ordered the 'saurus from Grain n Grape. Hard to track down a spunding valve, ibrew are out of stock too but have a delivery coming in late this week/early next. You can order via the site. All the ebay ones I could find were gonna crawl over from Hong Kong sometime around xmas - balls to that!


----------



## mtb

It looks like MTB is treating himself to four Fermentasaurus's this xmas. He doesn't deserve it but he's a spoiled brat and will get them anyway.
Comparing to the 26L Kegmenters, there are simply too many advantages with the 'saurus that can't be ignored.


----------



## homebrewnewb

'least he gives an honest appraisal on the situation.


----------



## Yuz

Has Fermentasaurus just gone up in price by like $25??
You'd think going by the sales volume (esp overseas), the price should move the other way?
Or is this related to the KK "conspiracies"?
Not happy Jan!


----------



## mtb

Yuz said:


> Has Fermentasaurus just gone up in price by like $25??
> You'd think going by the sales volume (esp overseas), the price should move the other way?
> Or is this related to the KK "conspiracies"?
> Not happy Jan!


Same old price on iKegger


----------



## laxation

Yuz said:


> Has Fermentasaurus just gone up in price by like $25??
> You'd think going by the sales volume (esp overseas), the price should move the other way?
> Or is this related to the KK "conspiracies"?
> Not happy Jan!


how is this one priced? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fermenta...201662?hash=item59027352fe:g:WVgAAOSwPh5ZKrhW


----------



## mtb

laxation said:


> how is this one priced? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fermenta...201662?hash=item59027352fe:g:WVgAAOSwPh5ZKrhW


Hundred bucks for postage!! Surely that's an error.


----------



## laxation

they're only about 8 min from me so I didn't even look at that...

(now I looked and my postage is $12)


----------



## mtb

iKegger have them for $169 with free postage - not a huge saving, but still cheaper.
I have no affiliation with them btw, thought I'd better mention that since I keep spruiking them. I just think they're great.


----------



## laxation

The one I linked has the pressure kit too - couldn't tell if ikegger did


----------



## mtb

Yeah the product page is a little vague on that. It does include the pressure kit - I bought some last month


----------



## Yuz

laxation said:


> they're only about 8 min from me so I didn't even look at that...
> 
> (now I looked and my postage is $12)



Ten minutes from me and it's where I bought my 'Saurus for $105 a few months ago in Standard configuration, then later the Pressure Kit for $40. 
Still, what's with the price hike?


----------



## bingggo

So, silly question, but I assume you get oxygen exposure when you attach the collection jar say with 30g dry hop pellets in it, and open the valve, as the air in the jar does a huge bubble up into the wort? I read some discussion a few pages back that you could mostly fill the jar with boiled water or siphoned off beer - was this to prevent the above?


----------



## mtb

Basically, yes. Boiled water is deoxygenated, but the moment it starts cooling, it'll start re-absorbing O2. Since you wouldn't want to add very hot water to your beer, you'd have to dick around trying to cool the water without introducing O2, ie using a sealed minikeg and pressurising with CO2 to offset the vacuum.

If you just dry hop at least 10 points above FG though, I'm fairly confident that any introduced O2 would be consumed by the fermentation. I'd need someone more knowledgeable to confirm or deny that though.


----------



## bearbeerbare

bingggo said:


> So, silly question, but I assume you get oxygen exposure when you attach the collection jar say with 30g dry hop pellets in it, and open the valve, as the air in the jar does a huge bubble up into the wort? I read some discussion a few pages back that you could mostly fill the jar with boiled water or siphoned off beer - was this to prevent the above?



I was under the impression that once you open the valve after dry hopping the oxygen will travel through the beer to the top ( not causing any trouble) and then you give the relief valve a few pulls and that will release the oxygen though the top because the co2 is heavier than the oxygen and forces it out. 

This process has worked for me so far but I’m no expert.


----------



## mtb

Greater minds than mine have debunked that "CO2 is heavy" myth many times over. If you bubble oxygen through your beer it's going to be absorbed into it, to some degree. Whether you notice oxidisation as a result is a different story.


----------



## markp

bingggo said:


> So, silly question, but I assume you get oxygen exposure when you attach the collection jar say with 30g dry hop pellets in it, and open the valve, as the air in the jar does a huge bubble up into the wort? I read some discussion a few pages back that you could mostly fill the jar with boiled water or siphoned off beer - was this to prevent the above?



Oxbars you tube video suggests that when dry hopping with the collection bottle to purge it with co2 before screwing it back on to the fermenter, not sure it would get rid of all the o2 but can’t hurt.


----------



## BaggyBeebee

Perhaps a little off topic. But does anyone know (perhaps those with a Fermentations) what the thread size and type is between the cone and butterfly valve. I'm looking at using a different valve arrangement so I can attach different connections at the bottom other than the bottle.


----------



## wynnum1

BaggyBeebee said:


> Perhaps a little off topic. But does anyone know (perhaps those with a Fermentations) what the thread size and type is between the cone and butterfly valve. I'm looking at using a different valve arrangement so I can attach different connections at the bottom other than the bottle.


From a previous post.
The sodastream bottles us a double helix thread which we have not found anywhere else other than in our yeast collection bottles and sodastream bottles.


----------



## Meddo

Has anyone had their fermentasaurus leak through the dump valve? I left my two unattended for a couple of weeks happily fermenting saisons (not under pressure), came back and they'd leaked about a litre each THROUGH the closed valves (no collection bottles attached) which was then fragrantly rotting in the base of the 26 degree fridges. The valves are both hard up against the stops - they're definitely "shut". Thoroughly cleaned before use too so there shouldn't be any grit or anything in the valve seats.


----------



## Yuz

Meddo said:


> Has anyone had their fermentasaurus leak through the dump valve? I left my two unattended for a couple of weeks happily fermenting saisons (not under pressure), came back and they'd leaked about a litre each THROUGH the closed valves (no collection bottles attached) which was then fragrantly rotting in the base of the 26 degree fridges. The valves are both hard up against the stops - they're definitely "shut". Thoroughly cleaned before use too so there shouldn't be any grit or anything in the valve seats.


Nothing like that but on mine the flanged top Gasket will let go before the red PRV has a chance... Still keeps the pressure to some extent but it does leak.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

bradsbrew said:


> Made a bit of a mess this batch. After 4 batches it's going to need a clean. Cleaning the spunding valve may be a different story.
> Lucky i am changing yeasts for the next batch anyway.
> View attachment 107722



If you use a frisbee or baking dish under the colletioni bottle this helps to catch the mess when you are fitting and removing the bottle.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Meddo said:


> Has anyone had their fermentasaurus leak through the dump valve? I left my two unattended for a couple of weeks happily fermenting saisons (not under pressure), came back and they'd leaked about a litre each THROUGH the closed valves (no collection bottles attached) which was then fragrantly rotting in the base of the 26 degree fridges. The valves are both hard up against the stops - they're definitely "shut". Thoroughly cleaned before use too so there shouldn't be any grit or anything in the valve seats.



Thats a bit strange. Have not heard of this before.

Normally we would recommend that customers always have a yeast collection bottle attached throughout the whole process so the dump valve is open all the time. This means your heast and other solids have the maximum amount of time to settle out of suspension. It's really ideal to have at least 2 of the collection bottles.


----------



## Meddo

KegLand-com-au said:


> Thats a bit strange. Have not heard of this before.
> 
> Normally we would recommend that customers always have a yeast collection bottle attached throughout the whole process so the dump valve is open all the time. This means your heast and other solids have the maximum amount of time to settle out of suspension. It's really ideal to have at least 2 of the collection bottles.



I agree it's very strange - and frustrating, especially since I love the product otherwise. I decided to stop using the bottles with these batches because I've found that the open valve gets blocked too easily by settling solids and it winds up trapping beer in the bottle rather than filling with solids. I also always have at least 1 litre of yeast/sediment so at least half of that is still going to be in the vessel body rather than the bottle even if the valve didn't clog. For me it's just one more thing to clean without really achieving anything useful unless you want to re-use the yeast which I don't. You'd normally think it's safe to assume that a valve would seal anyway - especially on a pressure vessel - so the bottle really shouldn't be necessary.

It's a bit surprising that I'm the only one that's experienced this based on the lack of responses so far, but that it's happened to both of my vessels. Maybe others haven't noticed the problem because the use of the bottle hides it? It's not exactly rocket science to close a valve so I'm comfortable it's not operator-error, and if it was a poor seal between the valve and the vessel it would be leaking around the outside of the valve body, not the inside. I'll be checking everything over for damage once I've emptied and cleaned the FVs and if there's nothing self-inflicted I'll be returning them.


----------



## Yuz

Meddo said:


> I agree it's very strange - and frustrating, especially since I love the product otherwise. I decided to stop using the bottles with these batches because I've found that the open valve gets blocked too easily by settling solids and it winds up trapping beer in the bottle rather than filling with solids.



Try squeezing the collect bottle a little occasionally - this till cause wort movement through the valve / throat area and help dislodge trub, which will settle into the bottle.


----------



## mtb

For this reason I've started fermentation with the valve closed. If it's going to form a plug anyway, it doesn't matter. Then after 24hrs, simply open the valve; the plug will be gone right quick, and re-settle in the bottle. Works for me anyway.


----------



## Meddo

Yeah thanks guys, there's certainly solutions to the plugging issue but I just don't see any benefit to using the bottle in the first place for my workflow - if it was going to catch all the solids then fair enough but it's too small so there's alway going to be some still in the cone anyway. I did buy some 1L sodastream bottles to fix the capacity issue but they're too tall to fit under the FV without mods to my fridge shelves which I don't want to do. I make the effort to keep most of the hot break out of the FV so I'd rather just let the conical do its thing. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that the included valves should hold a seal.


----------



## mtb

Yeah, the seal thing is a problem. At what pressure did it start to leak?

The bottle is helpful for me. Plugging issue sorted with my workaround above, any residual crud in the throat area is just stuck to the sides - it doesn't come through when transferring to keg. I compare the experiences with my Fermentasaruses to my stainless kegmenters and aside from the height issue, I prefer the 'saurus hands down.


----------



## Meddo

No pressure - just the weight of the beer. Yeah I love the things, although I curse those gaskets under the cap - takes three or four goes to get them to seat properly each time I use it. Would also like the top opening to be another inch wider to get my arm in easier, and a slightly larger valve so that the plugging was less of an issue. V2 maybe...


----------



## mtb

Bad batch of gaskets maybe. Have them send you replacement gaskets I reckon, send the old ones back


----------



## wynnum1

Could the collection bottle be replaced with a bag.


----------



## mtb

wynnum1 said:


> Could the collection bottle be replaced with a bag.


A pressure rated bag..?


----------



## Yuz

To minimise any chunks getting into the Fermentasaurus along with the wort, I bought one of these Stainless "Coffee Filters" / funnels;
It's 95 in diameter and would sit on top of the tank when it's being filled. It should also help airate and cool the wort a little (I hope).


----------



## wynnum1

mtb said:


> A pressure rated bag..?





mtb said:


> A pressure rated bag..?


Yes it would have to take pressure but they use a lot of bags in medical applications and also very large bags to ferment wine in so a small strong bag would not be a problem.


----------



## Meddo

Yuck:


----------



## Dan Pratt

I found my FV had a small leak into the catchment bottle the other day when it was empty, valve closed and a full beer on top. A very small amount of wort had dripped into the bottle, under pressure that would of been more. Id suggest always have the bottle on and valve open.


----------



## Zorco

good idea. Ill do that


----------



## Lumber09

Found these at Big W, 2x 1ltr bottles $10 and the 500ml were 2x $10. 
Will need to modify the fridge not too big a job and plenty of yeast will be collected[emoji106][emoji481]


----------



## Morrie

G'day Brewers - 
I am currently running my first Fermentasaurus brew. Asking if others brewing under pressure have found the fermentation to take longer? I have a brew in now and it is still showing visible signs of fermentation activity in the collection bottle at 1 week. OG was around 1040. Temp 18º for 4 days then lifted to 22º for remainder. Brewing around 13psi. Brew still has colour of smashed bananas. Not sure if this is normal but it seems to be taking longer than my unpressurised brews. Asking how long others are taking to get to FG with their pressure brews?

Thanks
Morrie


----------



## Dan Pratt

mine always looks like there is still fermentation but usually after 4-5days and that kind of temp raise she should be done. 

Just pull the PRV red valve and release the C02 right down to 1psi and let it go, Watch as all the pressurized yeast in the bottom of the collection bottle will re-enter the beer and if there is any sugars to comsume they will gobble them up and new pressure will be created. 

Do this now and later today when its settled down again and you will see that the pressure wont re-gain to 13psi, probably <5psi if there is in fact any sugars left over. 

I sometimes think its just c02 pressure carbonating the beer which appears as foam.


----------



## Morrie

I can actually see trub/yeast upward movement in the collection bottle and it looks to be ascending through the butterfly valve. Along with that and the colour of the beer I think it is still fermenting. I haven't taken a gravity reading though. I do have a krausen still but was not taking that into consideration when guessing that the fermentation had not ended.


----------



## Yuz

bearbeerbare said:


> Couple of questions re fermentasarus ‘s
> 
> Has anyone tried a 30L batch ?



I've done eleven batches in the Fermentasaurus so far, all being typical 23L.
Now I'm planning a recipe for a 28L batch - low gravity stuff, so not expecting a huge krausen;
Are there any issues with this sort of capacity / weight? Or head space?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Morrie said:


> I can actually see trub/yeast upward movement in the collection bottle and it looks to be ascending through the butterfly valve. Along with that and the colour of the beer I think it is still fermenting. I haven't taken a gravity reading though. I do have a krausen still but was not taking that into consideration when guessing that the fermentation had not ended.


If you still have krausen then fermemtation is still going. When the krausen drops and you want to check if FG is near or done, pull that prv and drop the pressure out to get a heap of yeast into supsension and see what pressure pushes back into the fv.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Yuz said:


> I've done eleven batches in the Fermentasaurus so far, all being typical 23L.
> Now I'm planning a recipe for a 28L batch - low gravity stuff, so not expecting a huge krausen;
> Are there any issues with this sort of capacity / weight? Or head space?


Depending on yeast but likely with 7Lts of headspace you wont have any issue.


----------



## Morrie

Dan Pratt said:


> If you still have krausen then fermemtation is still going. When the krausen drops and you want to check if FG is near or done, pull that prv and drop the pressure out to get a heap of yeast into supsension and see what pressure pushes back into the fv.



Thanks for your help there Dan. I did release the PRV to rouse things up a bit today. When fermentation is eventually completed and I have released the PRV as you suggested and I only end up with about say 5psi @22ºC, what will happen when I crash chill to zero? Will the side of the FV get sucked in due to only having 5psi in it prior? I don't want to let any air in as I want to keg transfer without any air exposure also.


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ if your worried about the sides sucking in during the cold crash, prior to that fill it with C02 from the bottle and then cold crash. be mindful that that c02 is being absorbed and will start to carbonate your beer.


----------



## wynnum1

Lumber09 said:


> Found these at Big W, 2x 1ltr bottles $10 and the 500ml were 2x $10.
> Will need to modify the fridge not too big a job and plenty of yeast will be collected[emoji106][emoji481]
> View attachment 111193


They had the 2x 1ltr bottles at aldi last time they sold the soda stream for $8 may be worth getting if repeated.


----------



## Morrie

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> This is one of those things that seems to be endlessly repeated but doesn't appear to have a basis in facts.
> 
> Increasing the CO2 pressure will slow yeast growth, mostly due to the increased solubility of CO2. The pressure at which growth is effectively stopped varies with yeast strain and conditions, the lowest I could find quoted in a reliable source was 300 kPa, on the other hand the yeasts used in MC wines survive at 500 - 600 kPa.
> 
> Fermentation doesn't stop when the yeast stops growing in these conditions but the slower growth will mean less yeast and slower fermentation. This is, BTW, the effect you are exploiting in the first place: the slower growth reduces the demand for lipid synthesis, since ester production is tied to lipid synthesis it is also reduced.
> 
> The pressure effect can be partially alleviated by feeding the yeast with an organic nitrogen supplement. It can also be alleviated by preconditioning the yeast: yeast grown under moderate pressure will adapt to higher pressures faster.



Dan - I just found this interesting post by Lyrebird_Cycles relating to a slower fermentation under pressure. This explains why my fermentation is taking longer than my non pressure fermentations.
Cheers
Morrie


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ I've done about 12 or more brews under pressure now and the fermentation time is no different to before. its all yeast pitch rates and viability of that yeast pitched and the temperature you ferment at.


----------



## Haciluku

I am going to get a Fermentasaurus tomorrow.


----------



## Yuz

Haciluku said:


> I am going to get a Fermentasaurus tomorrow.


Get an extra collect bottle too!


----------



## Leyther

Haciluku said:


> I am going to get a Fermentasaurus tomorrow.



Where from? I've been trying to get one but I suspect the KK v KL thing has caused all supply to stop, most shops I've looked at are out of stock.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

KK own the rights to fermetasaurus and Robobrew but I did notice a lack of fermentasauri at KK yesterday, each time I go in I like to try and get my hand in that hole in the top.
They are exporting a lot maybe not keeping up with demand.


----------



## Haciluku

Went to Keg King this morning, and ordered one from Yuri. They don't have it in the store but can get one from the factory nearby. Apparently, they said it is without the packaging box (shortage from factory in China), but all items are available in the plastic bag.


----------



## Haciluku

You can get one from ebay, a store from Woori Yallock has stock.


----------



## theSeekerr

wide eyed and legless said:


> KK own the rights to fermetasaurus and Robobrew



Do they, though? KegLand are advertising a Gen 3 RoboBrew launch later this month...


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Yes they do. Hopefully KK are going to run with the Guten / Brew Monk and kick some arses.


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## Haciluku

Droopy Brew said:


> Best way to purge the kegs is to fill one to the brim with starsan/idophor. Hook the gas to the keg and then out post to outpost transfer line to another empty keg. You end up with a keg and your transfer line sanitised and completely purged with CO2. I do double batches so need 3 kegs- 1 purged into 2 purged into 3. The 3rd keg is then sealed and used for the next batch.
> Make sure when hooking up your outpost line to the pressure fermenter that the pressure inside the fermenter is greater than in the kegs to avoid blow back.
> Once hooked up, I connect my spunding valve to the recieving keg and set to allow CO2 to flow out as the liquid fills the keg. This also allows control of the fill rate.




I like your way of filling the kegs. Unfortunately I use gelatine and don't have a beer filter. I can only put gelatine in a CO2 purged keg.


----------



## Haciluku

Paid $129 for the Fermentasauraus yesterday. 
Pick up the pressure kit and second bottle too. 
Now I need a spunding valve.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Haciluku said:


> Now I need a spunding valve.



Check out the Group Buy for a replacement PRV


----------



## mxd

for keg transfer (from fermenter) any one tred point 4 in https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/keg-to-keg-transfer-under-pressure.13709/

i tried last tine and it didn't work, height i think.


----------



## Jack of all biers

I'm not sure which point 4 you are talking about. Connecting the gas lines together or connecting the liquid line and it having some beer pushed into it? It works just as good if you equalise the pressure in each keg, connect the two gas lines to ensure this. Connect the liquid lines to top keg then bottom. If it hasn't flowed, then disconnect the bottom gas disconnect, pull on the PRV for a short burst and watch the liquid line. It should fill with beer and flow to the bottom keg. Then reconnect the gas disconnect to the bottom keg so the gas has a way out. Robert's your mothers brother. 

It's a siphon, so yes you will need the last of the liquid in the keg being transferred from, higher than the top of the keg being transferred too. If it's only slightly higher it will only work until the liquid levels equalise in height and not work any further.


----------



## mxd

Jack of all biers said:


> I'm not sure which point 4 you are talking about. Connecting the gas lines together or connecting the liquid line and it having some beer pushed into it? It works just as good if you equalise the pressure in each keg, connect the two gas lines to ensure this. Connect the liquid lines to top keg then bottom. If it hasn't flowed, then disconnect the bottom gas disconnect, pull on the PRV for a short burst and watch the liquid line. It should fill with beer and flow to the bottom keg. Then reconnect the gas disconnect to the bottom keg so the gas has a way out. Robert's your mothers brother.
> 
> It's a siphon, so yes you will need the last of the liquid in the keg being transferred from, higher than the top of the keg being transferred too. If it's only slightly higher it will only work until the liquid levels equalise in height and not work any further.




post 4 is what i was referring to, it didn't do any transfer for me (I have used this method previously from Keg to Keg with no issues) just wondering if this is how people fill kegs from there pressurized fermenter ?

As you described this one is what I was referring to https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/keg-transfer-made-easy.16907/


----------



## Moog

I just used my fermasaurus for the first time, and stripped the pressure lid for a clean, but found the o-ring inside the beer post was squeezed out and trapped round the spring. I re-assembled it and then pulled it back apart only to find it was exactly the same. The springs seem much stronger than those in my kegs, so that might not be helping, but I think the main reason is the size of the chamfer in the top of where the o-ring sits, If you look at both chamfers you'll see the one on the right is smaller than the other one, and that one was ok. We have a small lathe at work, and I could turn a larger chamfer, that I think will fix it, but I don't want to ruin my nice new equipment, so I thought I'd see what others think about it, and if anyone else has experienced the same thing. I didn't ferment under pressure, and only gassed it to 20psi for cold crash, so I haven't over pressurized it or anything.




sure lid for a clean


----------



## Moog

it turns out that it was too strong a spring rate that was causing it.
I swapped all the parts over, on to both posts, in turn and nothing seemed to help, so I fed the springs onto a 6mm bolt, and spun the outer diameter down on the side of my off hand grinder so the shape of the wire was "D" shaped, down to about half what it was, this made the springs much softer, and now its fine.
The valves are now still a bit stiffer than stock corny keg valve's but the O-rings no longer get pushed out.
You could always change them with corny springs if you get this problem, but I'd suggest the stock fermentasaurus springs should be made thinner by keg king.


----------



## sbowler

Howdy.

For those who use the Fermentasaurus in a chamber, I thought I'd let you know that you can modify the lid to add a Thermowell. I personally find the thermowell preferable to having the probe on the outside, so I've modified the pressure lid and have been able to still do pressure ferments with no loss of pressure.

Essentially I drilled a hole in the lid, added a big enough grommet and then put the thermowell through. I've pressure tested and have had no leaks. 

More details can be found here:
http://www.overengineeredbrewing.com/2018/02/fermentasaurus-thermowell-and-pressure-ferments/


----------



## Yuz

Moog said:


> I'd suggest the stock fermentasaurus springs should be made thinner by keg king.


Agree, and also those same replacement springs supplied in keg repair kits - compared to the original Corny's, they're an absolute overkill.


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ yeah Ive used the new spirngs on kegs aftwr buying 6 of them, they are not the right size spring and cause the gas or beer to leak.


----------



## Schikitar

Hi all, I have a Fermentasaurus on loan from my brother so I can try before I buy. I've got an XPA in there at the moment I pitched on Saturday (three days old now) but I've noticed I'm getting a lot of yeast/trub - from the 5L mark down it's looking quite white I'm not sure if it's just sticking to the sides or if this is all cake (pic attached, I dumped that first bottle last night)..

How often roughly should I be collecting/dumping through the little bottles? At which point ideally should I be collecting for yeast harvesting? It's a bit different than my old plastic fermenter which I'd just keep everything in for two weeks and then transfer to my second FV for bottling. I'm assuming I have to keep dumping otherwise when I get to bottling I'm going to struggle getting a good clear flow going..


----------



## sbowler

Schikitar said:


> Hi all, I have a Fermentasaurus on loan from my brother so I can try before I buy. I've got an XPA in there at the moment I pitched on Saturday (three days old now) but I've noticed I'm getting a lot of yeast/trub - from the 5L mark down it's looking quite white I'm not sure if it's just sticking to the sides or if this is all cake (pic attached, I dumped that first bottle last night)..
> 
> How often roughly should I be collecting/dumping through the little bottles? At which point ideally should I be collecting for yeast harvesting? It's a bit different than my old plastic fermenter which I'd just keep everything in for two weeks and then transfer to my second FV for bottling. I'm assuming I have to keep dumping otherwise when I get to bottling I'm going to struggle getting a good clear flow going..


I'd leave it for the moment. The trub bottle is still quite empty. As the fermentation slows/completes, more yeast will drop out of suspension. 

If you are planning to bottle through the bottom port, then I would wait for the trub to condense/the bottle is full, then empty and let it fill up again.

I'm also assuming you're not using the pressure kit?


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ hey, there is no need to dump or remove the yeast bottle during fermentation unless you plan to dryhop from that bottle which i wouldnt reccommend. 

the yeast will land on that area but you can see there is heaps of space in the bottle below for yeast. 

So when you cold crash the beer, you should see 95% of that yeast fall into the collection bottle and be about 90% full when you package the beer. 

have you got pressure on the FV ?


----------



## Schikitar

Thanks guys! No pressure kit on this one, the plan is to buy my own with a pressure kit and then work out where to get a spunding valve from etc., I only bottle at the moment, no kegs, no CO2 (apart from the sodastream, ha)!

Obviously it would be better to rack from the top down, rather than the bottom up, so I'm not sure how I'm going to manage this just yet! :/


----------



## Schikitar

Hi guys, all set to do some bottling tonight - anyone got a good method for adding priming sugar to the fermentasaurus with minimal splashing etc.,? I'll do this so differently this time but right now don't have any great options..


----------



## Moog

thought I'd share a couple of things I'm doing with my fermentasaurus...
Firstly, instead of a spunding valve, I use a carb cap with dip tube as an air lock,
I screw the lid on loose at the start of ferment, then I screw it up and undo one quarter turn, it lets it pressurize a few psi, and you check it by squeezing the bottle.
You can guess the pressure by what a bottle of beer feels like after bottle conditioning in PET bottles.
I'm not fussed about fully fermenting under pressure, so its good enough for me, ensuring positive pressure and no oxygen can get in.
The other thing I've been doing, which the shape of the fermentasaurus, allows perfectly, is dry hopping using magnets.
When the initial vigorous fermentation subsides, I open the lid, and stick my ( In this case) 2 dry hop additions, up near the top, so they dangle above the beer.
I purge with Co2 just to be sure, then after a couple of hours ( when the O2 in the hops has had time to go),
I lower the first addition into the beer, for the 4 days, or whatever, (You can also easily agitate the hops by sliding up and down a bit, to make sure the goodness gets through the muslin bag). then pull it up the side, and lower the other hops down , when they've both done their bit, they are both back up the top, out of the beer.
The hop bags have a couple of M12 stainless bolts in to weigh them down.
I disconnect the "airlock" , put in 25psi of Co2, and cold crash, then its ready for closed transfer, and carbed up ready to drink.

The inner magnets are coated in silicone, and zip tied in a bag, then zip tied inside the hop bag. When they are lowered, I make sure they stay above the beer just to be sure. The outer magnets are wrapped in towel, this way neither magnets will scratch the sides of the fermentasaurus.

By the way, that's Stone Ruination with 90g first addition, and 125g second addition... yum yum..


----------



## Yuz

I like your style Moog


----------



## JayP

Just tasted my first brew from my Fermentasaurus tonight ! Wow. This is such a great piece of kit !

18 months ago i did some BIAB brews with a non temp controlled fermenter and had some interesting results. I managed to score a $90 full size fridge off gumtree and bought myself a Fermentasaurus and pressure kit. My dad made me a STC1000 controller which really is essential in my climate (Perth)

Right now I’m using fresh wort kits too - am a bit time constrained and they seem like great easy option. Not interested in extract - all grain or bust.

Anyways - I did the red ale / Mutiny IPA from Allinn Brewing. Fermented it with US05 @ 23 degrees / 15 psi ( spunding valve essential) for 8 days in total. It went from OG 1060 to 1014 in 5 days so after a 8 I decided to cold crash and sample. It’s not been dry hopped yet but that will happen this weekend. It’s also naturally carbonated and pours like a Guinness with beautiful fine bubbles. The head settles to a thin transparent layer which remains for the duration of the consumption. Well pleased.

After preliminary sampling tonight, I’ve had about 5 attempts at typing ”Fermentasaurus” and writing this post so the beer must be good. No off flavours or smells as far as I can tell. It’s still cloudy but should clear up in time.

Am well impressed with the Fermentasaurus - absolutely true to label. You can ferment, carbonate and serve in the one tank. Give one a go if you get the chance. It’s a ridiculously easy way to make excellent beer. Saison next.


----------



## JayP

Is anyone capturing the gas for their Fermentasaurus to reuse later ? How could this be done ?

I’m becoming interested in “real ale” and beer engines, and am wondering whether an ale served from a F’saurus under its own natural carbonation is heading on the right track.


----------



## Yuz

JayP said:


> Is anyone capturing the gas for their Fermentasaurus to reuse later ? How could this be done ?
> 
> I’m becoming interested in “real ale” and beer engines, and am wondering whether an ale served from a F’saurus under its own natural carbonation is heading on the right track.



I'm setting up for this in the following way:

Gas QD > pressure line > Liquid QD. Gas QD to go onto Saurus and Liquid QD onto an empty keg Out post. The empty keg gets the Spunding valve attached to its Gas post. This way the empty keg will be filled with CO2 at no cost, and ready for transfer. And you're still brewing under pressure / carbonating naturally.

And yes, you can serve from the Saurus directly (I have a Pluto gun set up for this). Not sure if a "Real Ale" is meant to be served as Draft but...


----------



## JayP

Of course - and I’ve already got everything already (idot). I pressure transfer from my ‘Saurus to a 9.5L keg at the moment using exactly the same line.

It’s all a bit new to me - I am on my 2nd brew in the F and never kegged before. Last time I transferred 9 L out to the keg, served the rest from the fermenter and added gas when required from a SS bottle. 

I wonder if I will run into a problem using that stored gas to keep serve from the Saurus as it empties ? (Does a Fermentasaurus with 1-2 litres left in it still pour from a picnic tap without external gas supply ?)

If I have 30 psi stored in the keg I don’t necessarily want that much pressure to serve my beer. How do I reduce the pressure down to 10 psi for example without a regulator on that keg ...


----------



## Yuz

JayP said:


> Of course - and I’ve already got everything already (idot). I pressure transfer from my ‘Saurus to a 9.5L keg at the moment using exactly the same line.


My understanding that transfers are meant to be done into the OUT post of the keg, or else you're splashing your brew in the keg till it's filled through the Gas Post? Unless I'm misreading you a little..


----------



## JayP

Yuz said:


> My understanding that transfers are meant to be done into the OUT post of the keg, or else you're splashing your brew in the keg till it's filled through the Gas Post? Unless I'm misreading you a little..


Correct. I transfer into the keg using the liquid out port so it doesn’t splash, with a spunding valve on the gas port to release pressure as it fills. My transfer line has a grey gas disconnect at the keg end which fits into the liquid post just fine. I was told by my HBS that gas fits everything, liquid only fits liquid. 

I edited my post to better articulate what I was pondering.


----------



## Charst

Moog said:


> View attachment 111920
> 
> The hop bags have a couple of M12 stainless bolts in to weigh them down.




Genius idea Moog. If you had a decent magnet outside fermenter, is there need for the internal one with the SS bolts inside?


----------



## Yuz

JayP - ok that makes sense  I've got the same "transfer hose" (Liquid to Liquid QD) but about to make one or two "gas salvage" hose (Gas to Liquid QD) to "prime" kegs with CO2 generated. Filling kegs with CO2 from the bottom and CO2 being heaving than air, this will achieve a guaranteed oxygen-free process


----------



## wynnum1

Charst said:


> Genius idea Moog. If you had a decent magnet outside fermenter, is there need for the internal one with the SS bolts inside?


If you want a decent magnet pull old hard drive apart.


----------



## Moog

SS is non magnetic the bolts were only to weigh down the bag to stop it floating


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Moog said:


> View attachment 111920
> thought I'd share a couple of things I'm doing with my fermentasaurus...
> Firstly, instead of a spunding valve, I use a carb cap with dip tube as an air lock,
> I screw the lid on loose at the start of ferment, then I screw it up and undo one quarter turn, it lets it pressurize a few psi, and you check it by squeezing the bottle.
> You can guess the pressure by what a bottle of beer feels like after bottle conditioning in PET bottles.
> I'm not fussed about fully fermenting under pressure, so its good enough for me, ensuring positive pressure and no oxygen can get in.
> The other thing I've been doing, which the shape of the fermentasaurus, allows perfectly, is dry hopping using magnets.
> When the initial vigorous fermentation subsides, I open the lid, and stick my ( In this case) 2 dry hop additions, up near the top, so they dangle above the beer.
> I purge with Co2 just to be sure, then after a couple of hours ( when the O2 in the hops has had time to go),
> I lower the first addition into the beer, for the 4 days, or whatever, (You can also easily agitate the hops by sliding up and down a bit, to make sure the goodness gets through the muslin bag). then pull it up the side, and lower the other hops down , when they've both done their bit, they are both back up the top, out of the beer.
> The hop bags have a couple of M12 stainless bolts in to weigh them down.
> I disconnect the "airlock" , put in 25psi of Co2, and cold crash, then its ready for closed transfer, and carbed up ready to drink.
> 
> The inner magnets are coated in silicone, and zip tied in a bag, then zip tied inside the hop bag. When they are lowered, I make sure they stay above the beer just to be sure. The outer magnets are wrapped in towel, this way neither magnets will scratch the sides of the fermentasaurus.
> 
> By the way, that's Stone Ruination with 90g first addition, and 125g second addition... yum yum..




Big fan of the magnets. Thanks for the photos. Have not tried the magnets yet


----------



## S.E

Yuz said:


> I'm setting up for this in the following way:
> 
> Gas QD > pressure line > Liquid QD. Gas QD to go onto Saurus and Liquid QD onto an empty keg Out post. The empty keg gets the Spunding valve attached to its Gas post. This way the empty keg will be filled with CO2 at no cost, and ready for transfer. And you're still brewing under pressure / carbonating naturally.


I have done similar with three kegs(4 including the fermenter) linked in series. I have a 58L corny keg that I ferment in so I connect three 19L cornys to it when I pitch the yeast then gravity transfer to them.

Don’t use a Spunding valve though. Just a blow off on the gas post of the last keg that I disconnect when fermentation is near complete.

I have also done it with a plastic fermenter and pre-filled cubes for real ale with co2 from it.


----------



## JayP

7% Saison finished today in the ‘Saurus. This thing is an absolute Beer Machine. For a Noob like me using FWK it’s a no brainer.

Apologies for the stoke but it’s all a bit exciting. I can make $250 of high gravity beer for $50 !!!

(This was poured warm, prior to chilling tonight @ 8psi)


----------



## PTG

Has anyone got specs yet on the new models (Fermentasaurus2)? interested in the supposed 27L, hoping its skinner and can get two in the ferment fridge.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

PTG said:


> Has anyone got specs yet on the new models (Fermentasaurus2)? interested in the supposed 27L, hoping its skinner and can get two in the ferment fridge.



The Fermentasaurus 2 will not be much skinnier but it will be shorter. We have also made a few modifications to the layout to make them not require so much headspace. We have made a lot of other improvements though and we will have a specific fermenting fridge to fit both the new models and also the old models.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

If you are able to wait until the end of June we will release all the specificataions then for you.


----------



## PTG

KegLand-com-au said:


> If you are able to wait until the end of June we will release all the specificataions then for you.



Thanks for the feedback


----------



## bbqzookeeper

Meddo said:


> Has anyone had their fermentasaurus leak through the dump valve? I left my two unattended for a couple of weeks happily fermenting saisons (not under pressure), came back and they'd leaked about a litre each THROUGH the closed valves (no collection bottles attached) which was then fragrantly rotting in the base of the 26 degree fridges. The valves are both hard up against the stops - they're definitely "shut". Thoroughly cleaned before use too so there shouldn't be any grit or anything in the valve seats.



I've been having leaking issues. Instead of the bottom of my fridge having sticky wort, I have a bottle attached with the valve closed @ 5psi. Check on it two days later and there's a good 50mL in the bottle...

From reading the other posts, might just leave a bottle attached and valve open. I think it's under warranty for another month, but unsure whether to pursue.


----------



## Bruce Bowden

sp0rk said:


> Yeah, I know PET is less oxygen permeable than HDPE, but for the ability to no chill in, I'll be sticking with HDPE or Stainless :/
> an SS Chronical or DIY kegmenter is looking like my best choice
> 
> 
> It's a pull type relief valve like on cornies, you can't set individual pressures


Use a spunding valve on the gas post and set thr pressure you want


----------



## sp0rk

Bruce Bowden said:


> Use a spunding valve on the gas post and set thr pressure you want


Well they have them NOW, pretty sure they didn't back when I posted that (KK/KL, that is)


----------



## RobB

I'm considering getting a generation 2 Fermentasaurus and was wondering if anyone had any advice or negative experiences with dispensing straight from the Fermentasaurus.

The downtime between batches doesn't bother me; there are ways I can work around this. My main concern was with the ongoing quality of the beer. The oxygen free environment will be a huge bonus, but is enough of the yeast sufficiently isolated from the beer once the butterfly valve is shut that it doesn't negatively affect the beer?


----------



## EmptyB

RobB said:


> I'm considering getting a generation 2 Fermentasaurus and was wondering if anyone had any advice or negative experiences with dispensing straight from the Fermentasaurus.
> 
> The downtime between batches doesn't bother me; there are ways I can work around this. My main concern was with the ongoing quality of the beer. The oxygen free environment will be a huge bonus, but is enough of the yeast sufficiently isolated from the beer once the butterfly valve is shut that it doesn't negatively affect the beer?


Dump settled trub and yeast via that butterfly valve and you should be right.


----------



## goatchop41

I am looking at a Gen 2 as well, but my biggest concern is what would happen if you got an infection/contamination...

With a bog standard HDPE fermenter, if you can't be arsed nuking it with something like acidified bleach, then you can just chuck it and get another one for cheap (or use one of the other 5 or 6 that I have lying around ).
Stainless is easy as you can just clean it with caustic.

What would be the extreme cleaning options for a fermentasaurus? Assuming that a basic PBW and sodium perc soak doesn't do the job, would it stand up to something like acidified bleach?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

For cleaning a spray ball CIP with a compatible cleaner would be the go for the Fermentasaurus, could even be one being developed as we speak. But for me HDPE cube or fermenter is a simple, compact, unit. I can drink straight from a cube, stainless steel is a good option, but I am damned if I can tell the difference from a beer fermented in a PET, S/S or HDPE vessel.


----------



## markp

goatchop41 said:


> I am looking at a Gen 2 as well, but my biggest concern is what would happen if you got an infection/contamination...
> 
> With a bog standard HDPE fermenter, if you can't be arsed nuking it with something like acidified bleach, then you can just chuck it and get another one for cheap (or use one of the other 5 or 6 that I have lying around ).
> Stainless is easy as you can just clean it with caustic.
> 
> What would be the extreme cleaning options for a fermentasaurus? Assuming that a basic PBW and sodium perc soak doesn't do the job, would it stand up to something like acidified bleach?



I had an issue with probable infection in mine, spoke to my lhbs and he suggested I boil the bits I could which is easy enough and the mix up a litre of sodium met and seal that into the fermentasaurus for a week, I took all the stainless bits off before I stuck the met in and capped the bottom and top and hey presto 1 week later no issues ! I also stuck a jug of met in my fermenting fridge for a week and closed it and left it closed on the lhbs advice and no more issues for me.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

The gen2 is 'supposed' (who knows till it comes out) a different form of polymer, not PET. This newer polymer has got a higher temp resistancy than PET. So it might be more resistant to harsher cleaners too. 

Once it comes out we'll know for sure. I've been waiting for the release of this new model, was hoping before chrissy but is not looking good.


----------



## goatchop41

markp said:


> I also stuck a jug of met in my fermenting fridge for a week and closed it and left it closed on the lhbs advice and no more issues for me.



What on earth do they think that was supposed to do, magically come out of solution and spread through the air? Sodium met in solution doesn't work like that, does it?

The rest of it is great to know though, cheers!


----------



## markp

goatchop41 said:


> What on earth do they think that was supposed to do, magically come out of solution and spread through the air? Sodium met in solution doesn't work like that, does it?
> 
> The rest of it is great to know though, cheers!



I’m only taking advice from a guy that has been in the home brewing game for probably longer than most of us have been alive (Roy at twoc Bibra lake), what I Will say is that when the fermenter was opened after a week the fumes nearly bowled me over and since doing this I’ve had no more issues ! So did it work ? Well it did for me !


----------



## goatchop41

markp said:


> I’m only taking advice from a guy that has been in the home brewing game for probably longer than most of us have been alive (Roy at twoc Bibra lake), what I Will say is that when the fermenter was opened after a week the fumes nearly bowled me over and since doing this I’ve had no more issues ! So did it work ? Well it did for me !



Interesting. I would love for someone with a chemistry background to explain why it works/if it doesn't work


----------



## Fro-Daddy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite
"When mixed with water, sodium metabisulfite releases sulfur dioxide (SO2)"

Not sure if that helps? I tried looking up SO2 but can't see anything about it 'cleaning' it's environment.


----------



## dkril

Sodium metabisulphite + water gives of sulfur dioxide. That's the nasty smell that makes you cough when you get a lungful, and can trigger asthma attacks.

It's the gas that does the business, not contact with the liquid. As most of us can testify, you do NOT need to touch the liquid for that shit to have an effect!

Hence, putting a hot jug of it in a sealed chamber (like a fridge, or a fermenter with a working airlock) will kill most things in there.


----------



## goatchop41

Cheers @dkril
I might have to get my hands on some


----------



## markp

goatchop41 said:


> What on earth do they think that was supposed to do, magically come out of solution and spread through the air? Sodium met in solution doesn't work like that, does it?
> 
> The rest of it is great to know though, cheers!



So apparently it does magically jump out of solution !


----------



## altone

markp said:


> So apparently it does magically jump out of solution !




Yep, that's right. I couldn't explain the science behind it so stayed quiet.
Such a pity Lyrebird cycles isn't active here any more.
He's a winemaker and would have provided a complete scientific explanation.


----------



## Wobbly74

I used to use sodium met back in the day. One whiff and you'll know about it. Seriously.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

I pulled the wallet out and have a Gen 1 Fermentasaurus on the way, got sick of waiting for Gen 2. I have a question regarding yeast reuse. I have never reused my yeast before.
If you want to reuse the yeast you collect, do you just use the collected yeast straight from the collection bottle by putting it on and opening the butterfly valve or do you put it in on top of the Wort as normal, also how much of the collected yeast would you use. I use mainly do 23L batches with Ale yeast.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Neil Buttriss said:


> I pulled the wallet out and have a Gen 1 Fermentasaurus on the way, got sick of waiting for Gen 2. I have a question regarding yeast reuse. I have never reused my yeast before.
> If you want to reuse the yeast you collect, do you just use the collected yeast straight from the collection bottle by putting it on and opening the butterfly valve or do you put it in on top of the Wort as normal, also how much of the collected yeast would you use. I use mainly do 23L batches with Ale yeast.




You can just close the valve, transfer beer off / package and then put fresh wort into the fermenter, open valve and the yeast will go to work. Typically when you have yeast post ferment of a 23L batch, you will have way to much for the next batch and it will ferment super fast, not a bad thing but you will have to try it to see how your beer turns out. 

I usually just close the valve, remove it from fermenter ( spray with starsan the top ) and cap it off until the next batch ( give it a rinse with starsan, dry it and place into fridge ) keeping it in the fridge. Prior to the next bacth remove from fridge and bring to room temp and then just pour enough yeast into a sanitary metric cup ( from the kitchen ) into the next beer, that is suggested to be 250 billion viable yeast cells which will comfortably ferment a 1060 beer out.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Dan, thanks exactly what I after.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Got the snub nose today, I would have got a fermentasaurus sooner except hey wouldn't fit under the shelf in the fermenting room, now I know they fit will be be able to get another 4. Was thinking of fitting a tap but they come with the pressure kit, so I can do pressure transfers. Bloody cheap too $75 each or 2 for $140. Be able to get rid of my HDPE fermenters now.


----------



## Kev R

wide eyed and legless said:


> Bloody cheap too $75 each or 2 for $140


Like to share were from?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Kev R said:


> Like to share were from?



What you can guess where this fan boy gets all his stuff from hahahaha


----------



## KegLand-com-au

wide eyed and legless said:


> Got the snub nose today, I would have got a fermentasaurus sooner except hey wouldn't fit under the shelf in the fermenting room, now I know they fit will be be able to get another 4. Was thinking of fitting a tap but they come with the pressure kit, so I can do pressure transfers. Bloody cheap too $75 each or 2 for $140. Be able to get rid of my HDPE fermenters now.
> View attachment 115140



I don't quite understand the point of this vessel. It's basically got a conical bottom but no valve so you cant dump anything out of the cone. That's the main benefit of a cone in the first place.

Then the handles on the stand are upside down so it's not possible to lift easily or ergonomically.

As this container has no benefit of being a conical vessel why not just ferment in a 19L ball lock keg that's even more compact. You can ferment in a second hand keg or a brand new keg if you want to spend a bit more money.

Why does this product exist? Who designed this product and who thought this was a good idea?


----------



## Mat

KegLand-com-au said:


> Why does this product exist? Who designed this product and who thought this was a good idea?



I'll start off by saying that I buy stuff from KegLand, KegKing and my LHBS, so I don't lean any particular way. 

You may have a few valid points here and that's fine, but flat out bashing a competitors product/design team under your company's account, in my opinion, is a little poor form. As the old adage goes, there's a time and a place.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare and highlight the advantages of your company's product, in your company's thread?

But hey, that's just my two cents.


----------



## Ferment8

Probably just had a gutsfull of sqWEALs whining. Can't say i blame him


----------



## SwiftyS

Mat said:


> I'll start off by saying that I buy stuff from KegLand, KegKing and my LHBS, so I don't lean any particular way.
> 
> You may have a few valid points here and that's fine, but flat out bashing a competitors product/design team under your company's account, in my opinion, is a little poor form. As the old adage goes, there's a time and a place.
> 
> Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare and highlight the advantages of your company's product, in your company's thread?
> 
> But hey, that's just my two cents.


Hey I'm like you as in i buy things all over the place as we don't have a real LHBS in the Mornington Peninsula. But it would seem that someone posted about the Snubby in Keglands account so in my opinion its open to comment particularly from Kegland as its under their account, if you know what i mean. I also thought they pointed out a few things that would help in making a decision around purchasing a FV.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

KegLand-com-au said:


> I don't quite understand the point of this vessel. It's basically got a conical bottom but no valve so you cant dump anything out of the cone. That's the main benefit of a cone in the first place.
> 
> Then the handles on the stand are upside down so it's not possible to lift easily or ergonomically.
> 
> As this container has no benefit of being a conical vessel why not just ferment in a 19L ball lock keg that's even more compact. You can ferment in a second hand keg like this for $44 or a brand new keg if you want to spend a bit more money.
> 
> Why does this product exist? Who designed this product and who thought this was a good idea?


Lifts easily by the top rim, handle can be easily switched thats no biggie, fits into most fridges, still harvest the yeast, watch the yeast and can comfortably fit 23 litres. And the main point for me as I can fit a row in my cool room under the shelf. 
The price is good, and $25 for a replacement body.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Kev R said:


> Like to share were from?


Keg King.


----------



## goatchop41

Mat said:


> I'll start off by saying that I buy stuff from KegLand, KegKing and my LHBS, so I don't lean any particular way.
> 
> You may have a few valid points here and that's fine, but flat out bashing a competitors product/design team under your company's account, in my opinion, is a little poor form. As the old adage goes, there's a time and a place.
> 
> Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare and highlight the advantages of your company's product, in your company's thread?
> 
> But hey, that's just my two cents.



They're probably also sick of seeing post after post from a user like WEAL that are just blatant advertising for KK. I'd prefer to see a business clearly posting from their own account rather than shadow posting through another account, or running some sort of shady 'we'll give you stuff cheap/free if you flog it on AHB/social media, but we won't tell anyone about our relationship and neither should you' deal.

Also, I don't really see a problem with them pointing out the deficiencies in the product. They're absolutely correct that its pretty pointless to have a conical that you can't dump from (defeats the whole purpose of the conical shape) and it does look hard to lift. KK should be more than welcome to defend their product as well (instead of letting their shadow poster do it for them).
What sort of world do you live in where businesses shouldn't be allowed to criticize a competitor's product in a public forum? They're not unnecessarily doing so, as they are all very relevant points


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

After brewing with a pro brewer one of the main pieces of advice he gave was to get the beer off the yeast as soon as fermentation ends. He does this by ph measurements. As soon as it's complete he dumps the spent yeast.

I can't see how the stubby will allow for that procedure.

I'll be waiting for the mk2 or if I can get the coin, I'll go for a SS conical


----------



## Fro-Daddy

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/reducing-the-fermentasauras-stand-height.98448/#post-1515503

People have been flipping the stand upside down for ages, nothing new there.
As KL said, if you don't want the collection bottle then it's probably easier to ferment in a keg.


----------



## malt and barley blues

I am going down today for the kegmenter snubnose package deal, don't harvest the yeast so it suits me.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> After brewing with a pro brewer one of the main pieces of advice he gave was to get the beer off the yeast as soon as fermentation ends. He does this by ph measurements. As soon as it's complete he dumps the spent yeast.
> 
> I can't see how the stubby will allow for that procedure.
> 
> I'll be waiting for the mk2 or if I can get the coin, I'll go for a SS conical


Easy to transfer into the secondary which is what I generally do, the handles clip off and clip back on again, no tools needed.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

goatchop41 said:


> They're probably also sick of seeing post after post from a user like WEAL that are just blatant advertising for KK. I'd prefer to see a business clearly posting from their own account rather than shadow posting through another account, or running some sort of shady 'we'll give you stuff cheap/free if you flog it on AHB/social media, but we won't tell anyone about our relationship and neither should you' deal.
> 
> Surmising can never lead to any good. Allowing Keg King to be a sponsor would be good as it is they have tried several times to become a sponsor without reply. Surely if Keg King wanted someone to advertise they would do it through one of the retailers who are sponsors on here, cut a deal with them.
> I have posted in a legitimate thread for a product which suits me, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it, and what is that I have been receiving for free?


----------



## bbqzookeeper

I love AHB...


----------



## fungrel

Just a friendly reminder to keep it on topic.


----------



## goatchop41

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> After brewing with a pro brewer one of the main pieces of advice he gave was to get the beer off the yeast as soon as fermentation ends. He does this by ph measurements. As soon as it's complete he dumps the spent yeast.



Keep in mind that (if I'm reading it correctly) that is in a commercial setting - the hydrostatic pressure on the yeast in the cone in a big conical is wayyy higher than that which is exerted on the yeast in our humble homebrewing scale conicals. Therefore the need to get the yeast out of there is not present. Also consider that the pressure in the bigger tanks results in the yeast producing less esters and undesirable compounds, reducing conditioning time.
A lot of homebrewers aren't pitching enough/taking care of their yeast well enough, and need to keep the yeast in there for a little bit past terminal gravity to allow for conditioning/clean up of VDKs, therefore also meaning that dumping the yeast ASAP may not serve them well.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Fitted taps to Fermentasaurus, pressure tested to 120 kpa got the first brew in this morning, will connect up to secondary via gas posts. Not doing a pressure ferment just collecting gas for oxygen free transfer.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Any benefit to that style tap over the ball valves most people put in? Or you just had it laying around?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> Any benefit to that style tap over the ball valves most people put in? Or you just had it laying around?


Only the cost, $2.00 versus $29.95.


----------



## PTG

How’d you get your arm down there to hold the back nut?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Used some multi-grips, I did buy a 'C' spanner that fitted in the slots, had a few drinks and mislaid it. Multi- grips fitted perfectly, the back washer was the fiddliest bit.
Did notice when I bought mine another guy who bought 2 units also bought the dump valves and collection bottles. Just looked at the pricing he has bought 2 complete fermentasaurus for $220 as opposed to $340, big saving just for drilling out the base for the dump valve. Happy with what I got will easily fit into the fridge for crash cooling.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> Fitted taps to Fermentasaurus, pressure tested to 120 kpa got the first brew in this morning, will connect up to secondary via gas posts. Not doing a pressure ferment just collecting gas for oxygen free transfer.
> View attachment 115150


Looks like you may have positioned the sample taps a bit low, no?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

S.E said:


> Looks like you may have positioned the sample taps a bit low, no?



My initial thoughts were the same, that the positioning of the where to drill guide could have been a bit low and I wasn't going to drill until I had used the fermenter. But the last 5 brews I have used the immersion chiller and dumped all the cold break. I transferred the the first of the 5 brews into a cask and when I saw how small the amount of trub was I was confident I could drill the holes for the tap. 
Also because of the angle of the bottom of the cone the other end of the tap is pointing up about another 15 to 20 mm on the inside.


----------



## S.E

I also think a conical that you can’t dump or harvest yeast from is completely pointless.

Just thinking, what is the diameter of the cone below the tap? Is it about the same or smaller than the top opening?

Wonder how hard it would be to make a yeast harvesting accessory for these. Something like a long handled soup ladle that fitted snugly in the bottom of the cone and could be lifted out through the top?

Obviously would need to open the fermented to get to it so wouldn’t suit oxygen free transfer fans.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Transferring to secondary leaving yeast in primary to collect.


----------



## Maheel

$140 for two with the ball lock lids?


----------



## awfulknauful

That's the price they are advertised at, with ball lock lids. What I would be wondering is do they have more versions of Fermentasaurus to be released.


----------



## Cian Doyle

I ordered 2 units at at the weekend how hard is it to get the washer on the inside of the unit?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

If you are any good on those claw cranes it isn't a problem, if you are going to pressure ferment I really would advise on the s/steel ball valve with the racking arm, but just go easy on the pressure, just use it to carbonate.


----------



## Moad

Picked up a fermentasaurus today, leaky dump valve.

I plan on fixing or just sacrificing whatever leaks into a second container after taking the yeast filled first container. Up to 500ml I guess

Suggested fix here - https://keg-king.com.au/Downloads/Fermentasaurus dump valve 1.0 leak fix (2).pdf


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Another plus for the snub nose, no Butterfly valve to leak . Transferred from primary to secondary after five 5 days harvested the yeast and washed, will leave for another 5 days and then cold crash. Surprised how easy the fermentasaurus is to clean, just a swirl with some warm water and sodium perborate clean as a whistle.


----------



## awfulknauful

Moad said:


> Picked up a fermentasaurus today, leaky dump valve.
> 
> I plan on fixing or just sacrificing whatever leaks into a second container after taking the yeast filled first container. Up to 500ml I guess
> 
> Suggested fix here - https://keg-king.com.au/Downloads/Fermentasaurus dump valve 1.0 leak fix (2).pdf


I had problems with leaks on my first Fermentasaurus, the second one I bought had the mark 2 butterfly valve never had a problem with that one so bought the mark 2 valve to fit onto my first saurus.


----------



## York

S.E said:


> I also think a conical that you can’t dump or harvest yeast from is completely pointless.
> 
> Just thinking, what is the diameter of the cone below the tap? Is it about the same or smaller than the top opening?
> 
> Wonder how hard it would be to make a yeast harvesting accessory for these. Something like a long handled soup ladle that fitted snugly in the bottom of the cone and could be lifted out through the top?
> 
> Obviously would need to open the fermented to get to it so wouldn’t suit oxygen free transfer fans.


Lots of people don’t dump yeast and for that price what is to lose???


----------



## Cian Doyle

wide eyed and legless said:


> If you are any good on those claw cranes it isn't a problem, if you are going to pressure ferment I really would advise on the s/steel ball valve with the racking arm, but just go easy on the pressure, just use it to carbonate.


Having a problem getting the back washer on WEAL, what is the trick to this?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Cian Doyle said:


> Having a problem getting the back washer on WEAL, what is the trick to this?



As you can see they are a fairly tight fit, gently stretch the washer until it fits over easily, a piece of wire bent at no more than 90 degrees, slip the washer over the thread and push on using the tool for the nut pull out the wire and position the nut. I bought 2 more units, at first regretted putting a stout into the fermentasaurus but transferred to secondary and cleaned up easily. Really impressed how easily these units clean up.


----------



## York

goatchop41 said:


> They're probably also sick of seeing post after post from a user like WEAL that are just blatant advertising for KK. I'd prefer to see a business clearly posting from their own account rather than shadow posting through another account, or running some sort of shady 'we'll give you stuff cheap/free if you flog it on AHB/social media, but we won't tell anyone about our relationship and neither should you' deal.
> 
> Also, I don't really see a problem with them pointing out the deficiencies in the product. They're absolutely correct that its pretty pointless to have a conical that you can't dump from (defeats the whole purpose of the conical shape) and it does look hard to lift. KK should be more than welcome to defend their product as well (instead of letting their shadow poster do it for them).
> What sort of world do you live in where businesses shouldn't be allowed to criticize a competitor's product in a public forum? They're not unnecessarily doing so, as they are all very relevant points


----------



## York

„
What sort of world do you live in where businesses shouldn't be allowed to criticize a competitor's product in a public forum? They're not unnecessarily doing so, as they are all very relevant points“

Yes that is very sad. After seeing yours and others post I rang KK and asked them why they never answer things on the forums here. They said that they have tried to sponsor a thread for a long time but it is being denied them and that emails to the forum owners go unanswered. So its all a bit lopsided on here when only one side and its supporters have pretty much a free run and just keep on with misinformation. Would make for a much better forum if both sides were allowed to present their ideas and arguments.


----------



## wozzie

wide eyed and legless said:


> As you can see they are a fairly tight fit, gently stretch the washer until it fits over easily, a piece of wire bent at no more than 90 degrees, slip the washer over the thread and push on using the tool for the nut pull out the wire and position the nut. I bought 2 more units, at first regretted putting a stout into the fermentasaurus but transferred to secondary and cleaned up easily. Really impressed how easily these units clean up.
> View attachment 115227


Nice set up, temp controlled room or shed with the split system?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

wozzie said:


> Nice set up, temp controlled room or shed with the split system?


Yes split inverter though they are not much cop during the winter months, can go too hot.


----------



## sp0rk

KegLand-com-au said:


> I don't quite understand the point of this vessel. It's basically got a conical bottom but no valve so you cant dump anything out of the cone. That's the main benefit of a cone in the first place.
> 
> Then the handles on the stand are upside down so it's not possible to lift easily or ergonomically.
> 
> As this container has no benefit of being a conical vessel why not just ferment in a 19L ball lock keg that's even more compact. You can ferment in a second hand keg or a brand new keg if you want to spend a bit more money.
> 
> Why does this product exist? Who designed this product and who thought this was a good idea?


Then you guys have obviously missed one of the biggest selling points of a conical in terms of beer quality
It minimises contact between trub/spent yeast and your beer. by the trub being compacted down into the cone, you will have a smaller surface contact area.
Rubbishing a competitor's product without taking into fact one of the main selling points of your similar unit makes is seem like you're just being bitter...


----------



## York

sp0rk said:


> Then you guys have obviously missed one of the biggest selling points of a conical in terms of beer quality
> It minimises contact between trub/spent yeast and your beer. by the trub being compacted down into the cone, you will have a smaller surface contact area.
> Rubbishing a competitor's product without taking into fact one of the main selling points of your similar unit makes is seem like you're just being bitter...


Exactly right and that is why this works well and is very cheap for what you can do with it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

York said:


> Exactly right and that is why this works well and is very cheap for what you can do with it.


The best thing that one can do with it is fit it into a fridge.


----------



## goatchop41

sp0rk said:


> Then you guys have obviously missed one of the biggest selling points of a conical in terms of beer quality
> It minimises contact between trub/spent yeast and your beer. by the trub being compacted down into the cone, you will have a smaller surface contact area.
> Rubbishing a competitor's product without taking into fact one of the main selling points of your similar unit makes is seem like you're just being bitter...



I'd disagree with you there. It's a homebrewing scale - contact with trub and yeast is rarely ever an issue. All of this "you need to get the beer off of the yeast as soon as it's hit FG" is relevant to commercial/large volume brewing, where hydrostatic pressure has significant consequences for yeast health and possible autolysis post fermentation. But is there any such concern at the homebrewing scale? That hydrostatic pressure certainly doesn't exist at such a small scale, so why else should we be concerned?

At a homebrewing scale, I would think that the selling point of the conical would be yeast harvesting from the cone, and being able to dump the trub so that there is less chance of racking it over to bottles/kegs. You can't really do either of those as easily if there's no way of dumping the cone


----------



## Cian Doyle

I like this method, I have a two door fridge so I can transfer easily from one Fermener to the other leaving the yeast behind, from there it can either go down the drain or harvested much the same way most breweries transfer to the bright tank.


----------



## York

goatchop41 said:


> I'd disagree with you there. It's a homebrewing scale - contact with trub and yeast is rarely ever an issue. All of this "you need to get the beer off of the yeast as soon as it's hit FG" is relevant to commercial/large volume brewing, where hydrostatic pressure has significant consequences for yeast health and possible autolysis post fermentation. But is there any such concern at the homebrewing scale? That hydrostatic pressure certainly doesn't exist at such a small scale, so why else should we be concerned?
> 
> At a homebrewing scale, I would think that the selling point of the conical would be yeast harvesting from the cone, and being able to dump the trub so that there is less chance of racking it over to bottles/kegs. You can't really do either of those as easily if there's no way of dumping the cone


Can you elaborate and quantify on the hydrostatic pressure you talk about. I mean some real figures??


----------



## goatchop41

York said:


> Can you elaborate and quantify on the hydrostatic pressure you talk about. I mean some real figures??



I can't give you exact numbers, no, but it's just general physics, isn't it? A tall fermenter with a large volume will exert much more hydrostatic pressure than a much, much smaller volume


----------



## York

goatchop41 said:


> I can't give you exact numbers, no, but it's just general physics, isn't it? A tall fermenter with a large volume will exert much more hydrostatic pressure than a much, much smaller volume


Well the pressure will vary with depth of course but I think I will do some research on this. Because yeast is a very minute organism whose cellular membranes will be semi permeable it may not suffer any ill effects at all. Just like jelly fish are found at great depths in the sea. Tomorrow I will study this a bit more. In the meantime let the results speak for themselves as people start making beer with these things.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Chris White goes into pressure fermenting in this podcast, 

He talks about what the yeast go through when they are under pressure.


----------



## goatchop41

York said:


> In the meantime let the results speak for themselves as people start making beer with these things.



No one is saying that they won't make good beer with them.
The discussion regarding hydrostatic pressure, etc. was in response to spork claiming that having having less beer in contact with trub/yeast was good for it, which just doesn't really stand up in the homebrewing world.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

@FarsideOfCrazy I've brought that up before but was told that hydrostatic pressure and top pressure shouldn't be compared.


----------



## ABG

Fro-Daddy said:


> @FarsideOfCrazy I've brought that up before but was told that hydrostatic pressure and top pressure shouldn't be compared.



Can you recall why? I would have thought x bar of pressure would be x bar, regardless of how it's generated and would affect the yeast the same way, but I'm willing to learn if I'm wrong.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

@ABG I think because top pressure involved CO2 absorption which has its own effects on yeast.


----------



## sp0rk

goatchop41 said:


> No one is saying that they won't make good beer with them.
> The discussion regarding hydrostatic pressure, etc. was in response to spork claiming that having having less beer in contact with trub/yeast was good for it, which just doesn't really stand up in the homebrewing world.


I'd like to see proof to this claim, not hearsay


----------



## Fro-Daddy

York said:


> Can you elaborate and quantify on the hydrostatic pressure you talk about. I mean some real figures??


https://www.sensorsone.com/liquid-level-to-pressure-calculator/
~1.4psi per metre high of wort/beer


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The hydro static pressure in the large commercial conical's does not really come into play until fermentation is complete. There are 3 things to consider, the exothermic movement of the yeast which creates movement, co2 bubbles rising and creating movement and also the temperature differences in the fermenter causing thermal currents. With the fermentasaurus you can see this happening, the snub nose has another advantage in that because you are removing the beer from above the yeast, and not the other way around means you are not losing any beer left in the cone if the yeast had been dumped.


----------



## goatchop41

sp0rk said:


> I'd like to see proof to this claim, not hearsay



Interesting, seeing as though you made a claim first


----------



## goatchop41

wide eyed and legless said:


> The hydro static pressure in the large commercial conical's does not really come into play until fermentation is complete.



Which is exactly the stage that is being discussed - after fermentation when everything has all settled in the cone


----------



## Reg Holt

I think we should keep it on topic, I am more interested in the snub nose fermentasaurus than hydro static pressure of commercial breweries. I really like the idea of drawing the beer off, and leaving the yeast cake in the cone, really does need a racking arm though.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Found this today from Brew tech most breweries get rid of trub before it goes into a fermenter here is what Brew tech have to say. I will say I try to keep any break material out of the fermenter.
https://ssbrewtech.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202956495-More-on-dumping-trub-from-a-Chronical


----------



## brewermp

Reg Holt said:


> I think we should keep it on topic, I am more interested in the snub nose fermentasaurus than hydro static pressure.



You beat me to it


----------



## goatchop41

Reg Holt said:


> I think we should keep it on topic, I am more interested in the snub nose fermentasaurus than hydro static pressure of commercial breweries. I really like the idea of drawing the beer off, and leaving the yeast cake in the cone, really does need a racking arm though.



You'll find that it is on topic mate, it's a discussion about the merits of what the snub nose version supposedly does and doesn't bring to the table. Just scroll on past if it goes over your head. But it definitely is relevant, because it's to do with one of the reasons why someone may or may not purchase it


----------



## Reg Holt

goatchop41 said:


> You'll find that it is on topic mate, it's a discussion about the merits of what the snub nose version supposedly does and doesn't bring to the table. Just scroll on past if it goes over your head. But it definitely is relevant, because it's to do with one of the reasons why someone may or may not purchase it


How on earth does the hydro static pressure of a commercial fermenter have anything of relevance with a fermentasaurus? I would hardly think that anyone who was interested in the purchase of a snub nose version would be having second thoughts because of the workings of a large commercial fermenter.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reg Holt said:


> I think we should keep it on topic, I am more interested in the snub nose fermentasaurus than hydro static pressure of commercial breweries. I really like the idea of drawing the beer off, and leaving the yeast cake in the cone, really does need a racking arm though.


I have made up a racking arm going to fit it before the next brew.


----------



## York

brewermp said:


> You beat me to it


Yes me too - at the price the snub nose is I don’t really care as long as one can make good beer with it and have fun watching it in the fridge.


----------



## brewermp

WEAL why are you using the racking arm over a picnic tap and co2? 

Are you using that to transfer to keg?

So close to pulling the trigger on this . Also like the competitive pricing.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

brewermp said:


> WEAL why are you using the racking arm over a picnic tap and co2?
> 
> Are you using that to transfer to keg?
> 
> So close to pulling the trigger on this . Also like the competitive pricing.


One reason, because the tap end (3/4 BSP ) is facing up and yeast drops into it, no a big problem, either needed a shroud or a racking arm. I am more into casks than kegs, I do have kegs but I will carbonate those using sugar.


----------



## goatchop41

Reg Holt said:


> How on earth does the hydro static pressure of a commercial fermenter have anything of relevance with a fermentasaurus? I would hardly think that anyone who was interested in the purchase of a snub nose version would be having second thoughts because of the workings of a large commercial fermenter.



It was being discussed because another forum member mentioned that a smaller amount of yeast/trub that is in contact with the beer in a conical is a very beneficial thing. This then lead to a conversation about the merits of this point, including where certain misconceptions may have originated, and why they aren't applicable to a smaller fermenter such as this.
You're absolutely correct that anyone considering purchasing one of these shouldn't be put off by hydrostatic pressure like a commercial fermenter, _which is exactly what my point was_.

Do you need me to walk you through any more of it? You clearly haven't even read it, just skimmed over it and started complaining


----------



## ABG

wide eyed and legless said:


> One reason, because the tap end (3/4 BSP ) is facing up and yeast drops into it, no a big problem, either needed a shroud or a racking arm. I am more into casks than kegs, I do have kegs but I will carbonate those using sugar.


It seems to me that product this has either been rushed to market, or was poorly designed from the outset, or was orchestrated by a bean counter. Or perhaps all three. As discussed many times previously, it's missing a dump valve to collect yeast, which to my mind and most other brewers I've spoken with, is the main reason you would use a conical fermenter. I wonder whether an accountant who has no idea about brewing thought "I know how I can knock a few bucks off this". Cheaper is not always better and this is a perfect case in point. Economy over practicality. 

Even if you overlook this glaring omission as a handful have on this thread - and to be clear, I'm not judging, everyone has different economic pressures and price points that make a product viable for them - It's been designed with the tap end facing up which lets yeast drop into it. 

There are too many compromises and poorly thought out/poorly executed components for me to consider buying one of these. I'm keen to see what KL bring to the table with their new second gen fermentasaurus. The first gen has too many issues for me (especially with hop matter clogging the dump valve), so until the second gen is a proven design, I'll stick with my trusty old HDPE fermenter. 

For me it's a shame that KK have tried to win the mind of home brewers based on price alone, rather than being innovative and coming up with clever design solutions to the products that are already on the market. Hopefully they'll read comments like these (are you taking note WEAL?) and lift their design/innovation game. It would be a real win for the home brewing community (as well as KK) if they do.


----------



## Frizz

ABG said:


> It seems to me that product this has either been rushed to market, or was poorly designed from the outset, or was orchestrated by a bean counter. Or perhaps all three. As discussed many times previously, it's missing a dump valve to collect yeast, which to my mind and most other brewers I've spoken with, is the main reason you would use a conical fermenter. I wonder whether an accountant who has no idea about brewing thought "I know how I can knock a few bucks off this". Cheaper is not always better and this is a perfect case in point. Economy over practicality.
> 
> Even if you overlook this glaring omission as a handful have on this thread - and to be clear, I'm not judging, everyone has different economic pressures and price points that make a product viable for them - It's been designed with the tap end facing up which lets yeast drop into it.
> 
> There are too many compromises and poorly thought out/poorly executed components for me to consider buying one of these. I'm keen to see what KL bring to the table with their new second gen fermentasaurus. The first gen has too many issues for me (especially with hop matter clogging the dump valve), so until the second gen is a proven design, I'll stick with my trusty old HDPE fermenter.
> 
> For me it's a shame that KK have tried to win the mind of home brewers based on price alone, rather than being innovative and coming up with clever design solutions to the products that are already on the market. Hopefully they'll read comments like these (are you taking note WEAL?) and lift their design/innovation game. It would be a real win for the home brewing community (as well as KK) if they do.


I am a new member here and i cannot believe the bitching and sniping that goes on here but i am learning as we go and I bought a KK snub nose fermenter as its oxygen free and i dont need to keep the yeast ,yeast is cheap and i can rack off into a keg there is no price point for me but i like the simple design ,HAPPY BREWING


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The snub nose fermentasaurus is not a new design it is just a fermentasaurus with out the hole drilled in it for the dump valve so anyone wanting the fermentasaurus with the full monty can pick these up cheaper and just drill the hole in the base.
You say it has been designed with the tap facing up, that is how all conical fermenters are designed, that is one of the reasons they have a racking arm.
As I said this suits me, when I transfer to the fermenter I manage to keep just about all the break material and hop matter out, what I am left with in the cone is practically all yeast, drawing the beer off the yeast is not unusual that is how most of the craft brewers do it. After the beer is drawn of 3 things I can do, tip another load of wort on top of the yeast, save and wash the yeast, or just dump it. But the best thing is it fits easily into a fridge for cold crashing. Nobody is twisting anyone's arm to go out and buy the snub nose it is just another alternative.


----------



## brewermp

Thanks for the response WEAL. I’m not harvesting yeast and don’t intend on it in the short term. I’m going to be kegging so I think this will suit my brewing process. 

Only thing I will need to manage is dry hopping. Maybe I’ll purge the co2, drop the hops in and then replenish the co2 once I’m done. That way I can limit oxygen exposure in the process.


----------



## altone

brewermp said:


> Thanks for the response WEAL. I’m not harvesting yeast and don’t intend on it in the short term. I’m going to be kegging so I think this will suit my brewing process.
> 
> Only thing I will need to manage is dry hopping. Maybe I’ll purge the co2, drop the hops in and then replenish the co2 once I’m done. That way I can limit oxygen exposure in the process.


If you have a look in the conical fermenter threads you'll see ways others have done the dry hopping.
I am currently fermenting in kegs and don't harvest the used yeast but rather save part of the starter for the next brew.
And at the price, I'm pretty tempted to buy one of these things too.


----------



## York

ABG said:


> It seems to me that product this has either been rushed to market, or was poorly designed from the outset, or was orchestrated by a bean counter. Or perhaps all three. As discussed many times previously, it's missing a dump valve to collect yeast, which to my mind and most other brewers I've spoken with, is the main reason you would use a conical fermenter. I wonder whether an accountant who has no idea about brewing thought "I know how I can knock a few bucks off this". Cheaper is not always better and this is a perfect case in point. Economy over practicality.
> 
> Even if you overlook this glaring omission as a handful have on this thread - and to be clear, I'm not judging, everyone has different economic pressures and price points that make a product viable for them - It's been designed with the tap end facing up which lets yeast drop into it.
> 
> There are too many compromises and poorly thought out/poorly executed components for me to consider buying one of these. I'm keen to see what KL bring to the table with their new second gen fermentasaurus. The first gen has too many issues for me (especially with hop matter clogging the dump valve), so until the second gen is a proven design, I'll stick with my trusty old HDPE fermenter.
> 
> For me it's a shame that KK have tried to win the mind of home brewers based on price alone, rather than being innovative and coming up with clever design solutions to the products that are already on the market. Hopefully they'll read comments like these (are you taking note WEAL?) and lift their design/innovation game. It would be a real win for the home brewing community (as well as KK) if they do.


Hey its easy - you want a valve then buy one with valve. You don‘t need the valve then save yourself a bunch of bucks and have fun. You really want to be a party pooper by the sound of this.


----------



## ABG

York said:


> Hey its easy - you want a valve then buy one with valve. You don‘t need the valve then save yourself a bunch of bucks and have fun. You really want to be a party pooper by the sound of this.


I'm yet to see the point of a conical without a dump valve. If you want to save some bucks, use a bucket, or, better still a HDPE fermenter. I'm not trying to be a party pooper, I want the party to be bigger and better, not cheaper and nastier. 



wide eyed and legless said:


> The snub nose fermentasaurus is not a new design it is just a fermentasaurus with out the hole drilled in it for the dump valve so anyone wanting the fermentasaurus with the full monty can pick these up cheaper and just drill the hole in the base.


That's exactly my point. Rather than just cutting corners and reducing costs, why don't you guys at KK invest in some R&D and make better products, not just cheaper products? KL are ar least trying to do that with a few products and for the sake of the homebrew community it would be good to see you trying to outdo them. Again, I stress I get there is a need for cheap products - I completely get that - but please don't make that the sole focus of your business. Not every home brewer is looking for the cheapest, dirtiest product out there. 

I take on board all of your other comments and you're right. Re your last sentence, the snub nose is another alternative, but it's a compromised and inferior alternative. It would be nice to see you guys produce something that is the best value for money, instead of just being the cheapest. Why not focus on beating KL to a conical with a dump valve that actually works, instead of cutting the dump valve out? Or take that same philosophy to another product? That way, you guys will be genuinely making the lives of home brewers better and I'm sure at heart, that's what you want to do.

To make my position 100% clear, I'm not affilated with KL, nor am I a fanboy. Like many oher brewers here, I focus on making the best beer I can. Not making the cheapest beer possible. Rarely is the cheapest gear in the market going to help me achieve that. I don't have a fat wallet to throw at the hobby, so Blichmann and the like are out of my price range. There has to be a middle ground - a manufacturer that innovates but doesn't charge an arm and a leg. As an impartial observer I see KL running rings around KK. KL are regularly putting out videos showing new and innovative products. They're copping heaps of flack for it when they fall short of releasing a product by a certain date, but at least they're having a crack at being innovative. For me, that's what's made and continues to make Australia great - innovation and nous. Please, please, please KK - keep the bastards honest and push them with some innovation from your own R&D team.


----------



## York

ABG said:


> I'm yet to see the point of a conical without a dump valve. If you want to save some bucks, use a bucket, or, better still a HDPE fermenter. I'm not trying to be a party pooper, I want the party to be bigger and better, not cheaper and nastier.
> 
> 
> That's exactly my point. Rather than just cutting corners and reducing costs, why don't you guys at KK invest in some R&D and make better products, not just cheaper products? KL are ar least trying to do that with a few products and for the sake of the homebrew community it would be good to see you trying to outdo them. Again, I stress I get there is a need for cheap products - I completely get that - but please don't make that the sole focus of your business. Not every home brewer is looking for the cheapest, dirtiest product out there.
> 
> I take on board all of your other comments and you're right. Re your last sentence, the snub nose is another alternative, but it's a compromised and inferior alternative. It would be nice to see you guys produce something that is the best value for money, instead of just being the cheapest. Why not focus on beating KL to a conical with a dump valve that actually works, instead of cutting the dump valve out? Or take that same philosophy to another product? That way, you guys will be genuinely making the lives of home brewers better and I'm sure at heart, that's what you want to do.
> 
> To make my position 100% clear, I'm not affilated with KL, nor am I a fanboy. Like many oher brewers here, I focus on making the best beer I can. Not making the cheapest beer possible. Rarely is the cheapest gear in the market going to help me achieve that. I don't have a fat wallet to throw at the hobby, so Blichmann and the like are out of my price range. There has to be a middle ground - a manufacturer that innovates but doesn't charge an arm and a leg. As an impartial observer I see KL running rings around KK. KL are regularly putting out videos showing new and innovative products. They're copping heaps of flack for it when they fall short of releasing a product by a certain date, but at least they're having a crack at being innovative. For me, that's what's made and continues to make Australia great - innovation and nous. Please, please, please KK - keep the bastards honest and push them with some innovation from your own R&D team.


Jeez mate if you spent the energy you used on this rant brewing then you might have some really great beer to drink. Who gives a shyte when you can get a vessel that works for that price where it comes from? Sound like you really need to drink a good beer to quell that burning thirst to lash out at KK whilst pretending not to. Less rant and more brewing needed here. Go get yourself a snub nose and have some fun.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Not just about being cheap it is also about standing up for your when a consumer has a genuine complaint. This is about the kegerator bought from Keg Land which was posted elsewhere. The post above it wasn't much better either. Highly illegal attitude by Keg Land.

Mine is from KL. Worked well first 6 months then same issues as above. Won't get to temp, takes ages and ages to get even near temp (upwards of a week) and has to be defrosted every 2-3 weeks ATM. This is after a tap failed (room covered in a keg of beer) that they insinuated was my fault (pigs arse) and a temp controller that keeps failing. PITA to deal with and won't ever accept their product is shite. Currently in a situation that if I want it fixed I have to pack it up (damage is my risk), send it back (they graciously pay for this), wait for them to 'test' it and when (given past efforts) they determine there is nothing wrong I have to pay to get it back. FFS. They won't use local repairers I guess because of the risk the locals will say "mate, this is a pile of shit". I'm going to put up with it as long as possible while I organise a keezer build. DO NOT PURCHASE FROM THESE GUYS IT'S NOT WORTH IT. That includes lines etc etc. You WILL regret it. Rant over.

Anyhow back on topic where else can you get a pressure fermenter where you can watch the yeast in action for $70


----------



## brewermp

It’s more the pressure fermentation that attracts me to this purchase than anything else


----------



## wide eyed and legless

brewermp said:


> It’s more the pressure fermentation that attracts me to this purchase than anything else


I think the pressure ferment, the ease of fitting into a fridge, and of course price will be the selling points. Picking up some bits and pieces from KK yesterday and asked how the sales were travelling almost 200 in just over 2 weeks so not going too bad.


----------



## goatchop41

malt and barley blues said:


> Mine is from KL. Worked well first 6 months then same issues as above. Won't get to temp, takes ages and ages to get even near temp (upwards of a week) and has to be defrosted every 2-3 weeks ATM. This is after a tap failed (room covered in a keg of beer) that they insinuated was my fault (pigs arse) and a temp controller that keeps failing. PITA to deal with and won't ever accept their product is shite. Currently in a situation that if I want it fixed I have to pack it up (damage is my risk), send it back (they graciously pay for this), wait for them to 'test' it and when (given past efforts) they determine there is nothing wrong I have to pay to get it back. FFS. They won't use local repairers I guess because of the risk the locals will say "mate, this is a pile of shit". I'm going to put up with it as long as possible while I organise a keezer build. DO NOT PURCHASE FROM THESE GUYS IT'S NOT WORTH IT. That includes lines etc etc. You WILL regret it. Rant over.



Off topic for the thread, but uh, just remind them about your Australian consumer rights/guarantees? Don't forget that this includes the fact that you can claim shipping costs back from them for returning the faulty product.
As long as you have photo/video evidence of it not operating correctly and you can show that it's not through any fault/damage of your own, you're absolutely fine and can easily get a refund when you start talking about liaising with consumer affairs


----------



## altone

Could someone give overall height/diameter of this item? 
I couldn't see the dimensions on the KK site.
Just want to make sure it will fit in my fridge before heading out there only to find it's a cm too tall or something


----------



## Neil Buttriss

brewermp said:


> It’s more the pressure fermentation that attracts me to this purchase than anything else


The pity of this is I bought the full deal very recently from my local shop who I very much like to support and we also ordered the pressure kit with it as it's an extra $40, he has been told by KK that the pressure kit is out of stock, then a week after the purchase this model comes out with a pressure kit as standard. I reckon I know now where all the pressure lids went, I'm not that happy about it but not much we can do. They show them as available on the website and people might say grab the pressure kit from there but you would think that they would supply their resellers! Plus the postage adds another $7, can buy the pressure lid from you know who for $30 might go there!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

altone said:


> Could someone give overall height/diameter of this item?
> I couldn't see the dimensions on the KK site.
> Just want to make sure it will fit in my fridge before heading out there only to find it's a cm too tall or something


665mm


----------



## Reg Holt

I watched the snub nose video doing the pressure transfer, missed the bit that it comes complete with the pressure kit, that and the size has me sold.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Interesting that the size is a selling point.
Some people whinged about excess headspace in the original FS which I believe is partly why the new one is 27L.

I don't use my FS as much as I should, mostly because hot water is a no no.

Any issues using a pressure washer on the inside of these to get a decent clean?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have found them easy to clean, even the stout I made I thought I was going to have trouble cleaning but some hot tap water and some perborate came clean really easy. I did buy a brush for cleaning them but I haven't used it as yet cost me $9.00 or there about may have to take it back for a credit note.


----------



## malt and barley blues

goatchop41 said:


> Off topic for the thread, but uh, just remind them about your Australian consumer rights/guarantees? Don't forget that this includes the fact that you can claim shipping costs back from them for returning the faulty product.
> As long as you have photo/video evidence of it not operating correctly and you can show that it's not through any fault/damage of your own, you're absolutely fine and can easily get a refund when you start talking about liaising with consumer affairs


Yeah I know it was OT, I was just replying to the post above mine. It isn't my Kegerator that has the problem it was some one on the other site, I felt like joining up just to tell him his rights as a consumer.


----------



## awfulknauful

Fro-Daddy said:


> Interesting that the size is a selling point.
> Some people whinged about excess headspace in the original FS which I believe is partly why the new one is 27L.
> 
> I don't use my FS as much as I should, mostly because hot water is a no no.
> 
> Any issues using a pressure washer on the inside of these to get a decent clean?


Agree with the excess head space but if you are not pressure fermenting the krausen can certainly crawl up the saurus. I would say no to any problem using a pressure washer, though I haven't had to resort to that.


----------



## York

Fro-Daddy said:


> Interesting that the size is a selling point.
> Some people whinged about excess headspace in the original FS which I believe is partly why the new one is 27L.
> 
> I don't use my FS as much as I should, mostly because hot water is a no no.
> 
> Any issues using a pressure washer on the inside of these to get a decent clean?



Do you have any way in which one calculates optimum headspace? Seems to be lots of different opinions.


----------



## Reg Holt

Excess head space, doesn't really make any difference, I would prefer excess to too little, give the krausen room to move. I was sure someone put up a pic of the krausen taking up most of the headspace.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

@York I'm in the same boat as Reg, not really fussed but rather have a little extra than not enough.


----------



## York

Fro-Daddy said:


> @York I'm in the same boat as Reg, not really fussed but rather have a little extra than not enough.


I think I will try and ask more questions about it to see what the various streams of thought are.


----------



## goatchop41

York said:


> I think I will try and ask more questions about it to see what the various streams of thought are.



The beer will produce many, many times the volume of the average headspace in CO2 during fermentation. Even fermenting 20L in a 50L fermenter shouldn't be an issue, provided that you can prevent O2 ingress post fermentation


----------



## Kev R

goatchop41 said:


> The beer will produce many, many times the volume of the average headspace in CO2 during fermentation. Even fermenting 20L in a 50L fermenter shouldn't be an issue, provided that you can prevent O2 ingress post fermentation


Extra head space for me.
Hocked the gas post my FS up to a second FS full of sanitizer it displaced the contents within 24 hours and it was a slow ferment (lager at 10c). Plus the yeast will use the oxygen in the head space early in the ferment. Have seen the post Reg refereed to with the FS totally full of kraeusen.
My 2c


----------



## bigmacthepunker

My 2 cent. I have already a Gen 1 saurus. I love it. Waiting to purchase the Kegland version till I saw the snub. As I already have the Gen 1, the snub has all the same parts that are interchangeable. Love the transfer to kegs. Cleaning easy. Love watching yeast at work. 35L in good as I use spunding and doesn’t clog. Good head space. I drop the trub and yeast much. The price is good. So I have ordered one.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Having the extra head space and letting the yeast do its stuff is a plus, if someone wants to pressure ferment cap it after 2 days, still plenty of co2 to get to pressure. This is the pic I posted of the fermentation after pitching dry yeast on to an zero aerated/oxygenated wort.


Both fermenters got the krausen all the way to the top.


----------



## Reg Holt

One of the things I have noticed with this fermenter is the differences in potential which people have spotted. I was musing over raising it a few inches and fitting an 90 degree elbow on the bottom, and a valve on the horizontal. No need for a bottle just dump into a bucket.


----------



## RobB

I have to admit that I'm sceptical about the benefits of the reduced surface area of the yeast in the cone. The yeast cake would be very porous and I tend to think that all of the yeast would be in contact with the beer, regardless of the shape.

My understanding of the original fermentasaurus is that it was based on the design of plastic, single use kegs. I think you could get rid of the cone altogether and just have a transparent keg with the pressure lid (essentially a PET kegmenter). Such a design would be more fridge friendly, easier to transport and cheaper to make than the snub nose, while offering the same benefits of closed transfer and pressurised fermentation (and of course the joys of watching your yeast go nuts).


----------



## goatchop41

RobB said:


> I have to admit that I'm sceptical about the benefits of the reduced surface area of the yeast in the cone. The yeast cake would be very porous and I tend to think that all of the yeast would be in contact with the beer, regardless of the shape.
> 
> My understanding of the original fermentasaurus is that it was based on the design of plastic, single use kegs. I think you could get rid of the cone altogether and just have a transparent keg with the pressure lid (essentially a PET kegmenter). Such a design would be more fridge friendly, easier to transport and cheaper to make than the snub nose, while offering the same benefits of closed transfer and pressurised fermentation (and of course the joys of watching your yeast go nuts).



The whole point of a conical is to be able to dump the trub and yeast. This also makes it easy to harvest and repitch yeast. This is why the snub noses don't make any sense - you can't dump/harvest, so it loses one of it's primary benefits. Without that, it really just comes down to the ability to ferment under pressure and do transfers under pressure. But you can already do that using a corny keg as a fermenter (granted, at a slightly lower volume)


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Agree with you Reg but not everyone can spot potential, you may have seen this modification by The Punt.





You certainly could knock up something like this, doesn't have to be stainless and because starting from scratch could be done without taking up too much space.


----------



## Kev R

I tried that only with the full port ball valve. Sediment got packed and stuck in the elbow. Worked fine with the elbow after the valve


----------



## Reg Holt

Kev R said:


> I tried that only with the full port ball valve. Sediment got packed and stuck in the elbow. Worked fine with the elbow after the valve


Strange that, I was looking at the other all stainless fermenters on the market Chronical, Spike and Brewtech they all have valve after the elbow. That is what gave me the idea.




It would barely take up much more room.


----------



## Kev R

Reg Holt said:


> Strange that,


Might of been a 1 off. Had to poke a wire in to break the plug. Swapped it around for the next brew, so didn't get to see if it was typical.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I think the whole idea for the bottom port is to just dump the trub, not the yeast, the yeast stays in situ until the beer has been removed.


----------



## York

goatchop41 said:


> The whole point of a conical is to be able to dump the trub and yeast. This also makes it easy to harvest and repitch yeast. This is why the snub noses don't make any sense - you can't dump/harvest, so it loses one of it's primary benefits. Without that, it really just comes down to the ability to ferment under pressure and do transfers under pressure. But you can already do that using a corny keg as a fermenter (granted, at a slightly lower volume)


Well I guess it is up to what brewers think will work for them. Looks like WEAL is doing pretty good with them. Personally I think for the price it’s hard to beat and it fits in the fridge so each to their own.


----------



## malt and barley blues

I put everything from the kettle to the fermenter so do end up with all the trub, I like the idea of the valve and bend on the bottom if it doesn't take up much room.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

What's the advantage of changing over to the stainless bend?
From memory my FS came with a spout you can screw underneath the butterfly valve which would almost be the same thing? I think that is for bottling/transferring without the pressure kit though.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Doesn't have to be stainless, in fact I think plastic would take up even less space than a stainless set up, I either have to take the trub out before the fermenter or use something to drop the trub, which would probably mean more things to clean. Certainly have to give it some more thought.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

This is the thing I was talking about:


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

I think that connection just makes it easier to connect a hose to run it into a bottle or some sort of container.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Fro-Daddy said:


> This is the thing I was talking about:


Does that barb fitting screw out?


----------



## Fro-Daddy

malt and barley blues said:


> Does that barb fitting screw out?


Yep, same thread as the collection bottle.


----------



## malt and barley blues

What a pity it isn't a bsp thread.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

For myself I think keep out the trub, run your finished beer off through either a tap or pressure transfer. The Snubby weighs less than a kilo, so it's no strain to tip out the yeast for either harvesting or dumping.


----------



## York

Fro-Daddy said:


> This is the thing I was talking about:


Definitely the old valve and needs replacing.


Fro-Daddy said:


> Yep, same thread as the collection bottle.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

York said:


> needs replacing








Mine works flawlessly.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Fro-Daddy said:


> Mine works flawlessly.


Where's the 'lol' button!


----------



## York

Fro-Daddy said:


> Mine works flawlessly.



Try the new one - works even better 

Off Topic but I think I hit a sore spot on the KL Q and A as suddenly I have not enough priviliges to post there. Probably for calling them out over all the CE bullshit which their lame attempt to refute just shows a lack of understanding about the approval processes in Australia. If they were right then they could just have shown it to be so but they like to silence critics rather than do the right thing.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

York said:


> Try the new one - works even better
> 
> Off Topic but I think I hit a sore spot on the KL Q and A as suddenly I have not enough priviliges to post there. Probably for calling them out over all the CE bullshit which their lame attempt to refute just shows a lack of understanding about the approval processes in Australia. If they were right then they could just have shown it to be so but they like to silence critics rather than do the right thing.


----------



## goatchop41

York said:


> Try the new one - works even better
> 
> Off Topic but I think I hit a sore spot on the KL Q and A as suddenly I have not enough priviliges to post there. Probably for calling them out over all the CE bullshit which their lame attempt to refute just shows a lack of understanding about the approval processes in Australia. If they were right then they could just have shown it to be so but they like to silence critics rather than do the right thing.



Christ almighty, it was bad enough that you took up two or three pages of that thread with that crap. Can you keep it out of here? It has no relevance to this product at all, and no one here (except WEAL) could give two shits about you thinking that you're scoring some points against KL.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

York said:


> Try the new one - works even better
> 
> Off Topic but I think I hit a sore spot on the KL Q and A as suddenly I have not enough priviliges to post there. Probably for calling them out over all the CE bullshit which their lame attempt to refute just shows a lack of understanding about the approval processes in Australia. If they were right then they could just have shown it to be so but they like to silence critics rather than do the right thing.


FFS mate let it go. You've made your point and now it's just fkn annoying.


----------



## York

OK so you are KL claque - just testing.


goatchop41 said:


> Christ almighty, it was bad enough that you took up two or three pages of that thread with that crap. Can you keep it out of here? It has no relevance to this product at all, and no one here (except WEAL) could give two shits about you thinking that you're scoring some points against KL.


----------



## York

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> FFS mate let it go. You've made your point and now it's just fkn annoying.


Point proved is good. I can handle that. Your faux outrage just says it all. Just another KL stooge.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

York said:


> Point proved is good. I can handle that. Your faux outrage just says it all. Just another KL stooge.


Dude you really aren't going yourself any favours, have a look at how long i've been a member on this site for! Long before the KK/KL shit storm. Unlike your self who has made 34 posts mostly about bagging a single thing about KL I've made contribution to this forum about brewing beer.

So I say it again, FFS GIVE IT A REST.


----------



## goatchop41

York said:


> OK so you are KL claque - just testing.



Pathetic.
Shadow users like yourself, who seem to post about nothing but having a go at KL, will drive more people away from KK. I used to buy from both, but the clear shill-ery from some of the shadow accounts on this forum make me want to go the other way.
I think that I'll be waiting for the Gen 2 saurus, as opposed to getting a snub nose and modifying it - less work for me, price after all of the mods and my time will probably be more worth it, and it doesn't come from a shadow posting business...


----------



## Grmblz

goatchop41 said:


> Pathetic.
> Shadow users like yourself, who seem to post about nothing but having a go at KL, will drive more people away from KK. I used to buy from both, but the clear shill-ery from some of the shadow accounts on this forum make me want to go the other way.
> I think that I'll be waiting for the Gen 2 saurus, as opposed to getting a snub nose and modifying it - less work for me, price after all of the mods and my time will probably be more worth it, and it doesn't come from a shadow posting business...


+1 I will not be buying from KK again even if by some miracle they're the cheapest on the market, it's a matter of principal now.


----------



## Frizz

Grmblz said:


> +1 I will not be buying from KK again even if by some miracle they're the cheapest on the market, it's a matter of principal now.


Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face , are we all like children here


----------



## brewermp

Anyway.... Back on topic.

Just put my first brew in my snub nose down. Love the trub collecting neatly down the bottom. Will take photos tomorrow. 

I was also watching the following video and noticed that this new Spike conical has no collection ball which may be a change for conicals


----------



## Moad

Yeah but will snub nose do this? 





Seriously great bit of kit these fermentasaurus. The pressure transfer through filter was priceless.

Cleanest Pilsner I’ve ever made, Cant wait for the new ones in the 50L....


----------



## York

Grmblz said:


> +1 I will not be buying from KK again even if by some miracle they're the cheapest on the market, it's a matter of principal now.


Well they probably will not miss you too much on principle and send you to see the principal.


----------



## York

Moad said:


> Yeah but will snub nose do this?
> 
> View attachment 115383
> 
> 
> Seriously great bit of kit these fermentasaurus. The pressure transfer through filter was priceless.
> 
> Cleanest Pilsner I’ve ever made, Cant wait for the new ones in the 50L....



Snub Nose does not but the standard one does.


----------



## York

goatchop41 said:


> Pathetic.
> Shadow users like yourself, who seem to post about nothing but having a go at KL, will drive more people away from KK. I used to buy from both, but the clear shill-ery from some of the shadow accounts on this forum make me want to go the other way.
> I think that I'll be waiting for the Gen 2 saurus, as opposed to getting a snub nose and modifying it - less work for me, price after all of the mods and my time will probably be more worth it, and it doesn't come from a shadow posting business...


You never know it might be worth the wait for the gen 3 Saurus. Why would you mod a snub nose? Just buy the standard starter kit.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Moad said:


> Yeah but will snub nose do this?
> 
> View attachment 115383
> 
> 
> Seriously great bit of kit these fermentasaurus. The pressure transfer through filter was priceless.
> 
> Cleanest Pilsner I’ve ever made, Cant wait for the new ones in the 50L....


I can do that,


And I can do this




Doesn't really matter what you use as long as your happy with it, a lot of permutations with the snubby even making one up to the full monty only cheaper.
Cheaper to run a small fridge too.


York said:


> You never know it might be worth the wait for the gen 3 Saurus. Why would you mod a snub nose? Just buy the standard starter kit.


I think we should just discuss the Fermentasaurus 1, the snub nose and the fermzilla the 3 will have to be another thread, until we have seen it.


----------



## goatchop41

York said:


> Why would you mod a snub nose? Just buy the standard starter kit.



Because, as mentioned previously, the whole point of a conical is to be able to dump the trub then harvest the yeast easily, both through the dump valve on the bottom.
This is nice and easy, without having to piss about with 'rinsing' the yeast that has trub mixed in, which is what you end up with in the bottom of a conical that doesn't have a dump valve - trub with yeast sitting on top of it, just like any other fermenter


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Simple answer, don't put the trub into the fermenter.


----------



## Reg Holt

I got the racking arm and taps with my fermenters, not going to bother with the dump valve, I don't think I will need it. Will do the pressure transfers and use the tap and racking arm if I run out of gas.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reg Holt said:


> I got the racking arm and taps with my fermenters, not going to bother with the dump valve, I don't think I will need it. Will do the pressure transfers and use the tap and racking arm if I run out of gas.
> View attachment 115385


I wish I had gone with the racking arm and tap, didn't think it was worth the extra $'s but I now have to come up with an alternative.


----------



## Moad

Nice, my post was more me being excited than bashing the snub. Fridge space is an issue when I’m looking at 3 x 55L “fermzilla”. Might be better off with a chesty


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Moad said:


> Nice, my post was more me being excited than bashing the snub. Fridge space is an issue when I’m looking at 3 x 55L “fermzilla”. Might be better off with a chesty


I don't know what the dimensions are,or going to be for the 55 litre FermZilla but I would imagine that some serious fridge space is going to be needed


brewermp said:


> Anyway.... Back on topic.
> 
> Just put my first brew in my snub nose down. Love the trub collecting neatly down the bottom. Will take photos tomorrow.
> 
> I was also watching the following video and noticed that this new Spike conical has no collection ball which may be a change for conicals



Keeping the trub out then a collection bottle isn't needed, even with the fermentasaurus with the collection bottles it is painful to watch someone emptying out the trub through the collection bottle. A small bottle and loads of trub takes time to empty. Like all other conicals it would serve better minus the collection bottle and just a dump valve to get rid of the trub, leave the yeast in the cone until the beer has been removed. This is my latest ferment with the yeast collecting nicely in the cone.


----------



## awfulknauful

Spotted this on a English site, 145 GBP, cheap for a S/S Fermenter.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Well, on a recent trip to KL to pick up some bits, I spotted this, could it be the rare and elusive Brewzilla?


----------



## Reg Holt

Interesting, but I think it is near the rubbish bin for a reason, its more than likely a prototype. The angle is completely wrong, conical fermenters as a rule are 60 to 70 degrees "included" angle, the reason being anything much bigger and the yeast will not flocculate into the tip of the cone it will stick to the sides of the gradient. Just by sight that looks to be a 90 degree "included" angle.


----------



## dkril

Reg Holt said:


> Interesting, but I think it is near the rubbish bin for a reason, its more than likely a prototype. The angle is completely wrong, conical fermenters as a rule are 60 to 70 degrees "included" angle, the reason being anything much bigger and the yeast will not flocculate into the tip of the cone it will stick to the sides of the gradient. Just by sight that looks to be a 90 degree "included" angle.


Looks to me like it's upside down.


----------



## Reg Holt

dkril said:


> Looks to me like it's upside down.


It is.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> Spotted this on a English site, 145 GBP, cheap for a S/S Fermenter.


That's the Guten one, don't know if it is still going ahead now the Snubby has been released it is $199 for the 30 litre. And the dump valve was switched from 1/2" to 3/4"


----------



## Cian Doyle

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't know what the dimensions are,or going to be for the 55 litre FermZilla but I would imagine that some serious fridge space is going to be needed
> 
> Keeping the trub out then a collection bottle isn't needed, even with the fermentasaurus with the collection bottles it is painful to watch someone emptying out the trub through the collection bottle. A small bottle and loads of trub takes time to empty. Like all other conicals it would serve better minus the collection bottle and just a dump valve to get rid of the trub, leave the yeast in the cone until the beer has been removed. This is my latest ferment with the yeast collecting nicely in the cone.
> View attachment 115387


Is this a photo of the secondary because my first use is looking much the same? I probably left almost twice as much lees (is it called that in beer?) in the primary and it is now clearing nicely. I will be using PVPP for the first time just to get everything to drop out.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Cian Doyle said:


> Is this a photo of the secondary because my first use is looking much the same? I probably left almost twice as much lees (is it called that in beer?) in the primary and it is now clearing nicely. I will be using PVPP for the first time just to get everything to drop out.


Yes that pic is of the secondary yeast bed.


----------



## brewermp

Have a question. I put my first brew down on my snub last week and noticed that it was losing pressure. I just realised that it only does this when the gas disconnects have a connection. such as when applying co2, or a pressure release valve..odd thing is if there is no gas disconnect connected on the unit, it maintains pressure. Any ideas?

I feel like it is coming from the poppet


----------



## wide eyed and legless

brewermp said:


> Have a question. I put my first brew down on my snub last week and noticed that it was losing pressure. I just realised that it only does this when the gas disconnects have a connection. such as when applying co2, or a pressure release valve..odd thing is if there is no gas disconnect connected on the unit, it maintains pressure. Any ideas?
> 
> I feel like it is coming from the poppet


The hose on the barb I have noticed in the past that pressure can be lost if the hose isn't clamped, if they are clamped use some Starsansan to spray around the likely places you could be losing the pressure.


----------



## goatchop41

brewermp said:


> Have a question. I put my first brew down on my snub last week and noticed that it was losing pressure. I just realised that it only does this when the gas disconnects have a connection. such as when applying co2, or a pressure release valve..odd thing is if there is no gas disconnect connected on the unit, it maintains pressure. Any ideas?
> 
> I feel like it is coming from the poppet



The poppet itself wouldn't be the issue, as that is inside the post.
If you're getting leaking with both a spunding valve (I assume that's what you mean when you say PRV) or disconnect, then it's most likely the o-ring on the post is knackered (so gas will leak out between the post and disconnect).
What WEAL suggested would be worth a try, but if it's happening with two different disconnects on the post, I would try changing the post o-ring and see if that helps


----------



## Reg Holt

Cian Doyle said:


> I will be using PVPP for the first time just to get everything to drop out.



Be careful with the PVPP, dont overdo it, can even strip out some of the color.
Put a spray ball on back order when I ordered the snub nose and have just been informed they are now in stock. Looking to get a pump if anyone has a spare lying around.


----------



## brewermp

Thanks all. Will try those suggestions


----------



## Cian Doyle

Reg Holt said:


> Be careful with the PVPP, dont overdo it, can even strip out some of the color.
> Put a spray ball on back order when I ordered the snub nose and have just been informed they are now in stock. Looking to get a pump if anyone has a spare lying around.


I have a spare pump but now I am looking to get the spray ball, not on their site yet, what is the cost?


----------



## awfulknauful

Just as a point of interest what happens if the fermentasaurus 3 were to be released before the fermentasaurus2?


----------



## Reg Holt

Cian Doyle said:


> I have a spare pump but now I am looking to get the spray ball, not on their site yet, what is the cost?


It was $40 with the plate and silicone washer.


----------



## goatchop41

awfulknauful said:


> Just as a point of interest what happens if the fermentasaurus 3 were to be released before the fermentasaurus2?



Well I think now that we are going to see one product called the 'fermentasaurus' and another called 'fermzilla'


----------



## Reg Holt

Got the spray ball this morning, had to rethink the method for the snubnose, easy to use with the Fermentasaurus proper
What I got.


Bunnings to the rescue with a pump and fittings needed.


Into a Bunnings pail with the pump snub nose over the top.


And finally, "Let us Spray"


----------



## RobB

Reg Holt said:


> Got the spray ball this morning, had to rethink the method for the snubnose, easy to use with the Fermentasaurus proper
> What I got.
> View attachment 115428
> 
> Bunnings to the rescue with a pump and fittings needed.
> View attachment 115429
> 
> Into a Bunnings pail with the pump snub nose over the top.
> View attachment 115430
> 
> And finally, "Let us Spray"
> View attachment 115431


I've got the same pump for moving pre-chilled water through my immersion chiller. I might follow your lead and adapt it for cleaning as well.



goatchop41 said:


> Well I think now that we are going to see one product called the 'fermentasaurus' and another called 'fermzilla'



I see both competing retailers have realised that nothing says "transparent unitank" like a giant lizard.


----------



## Reg Holt

RobB said:


> I see both competing retailers have realised that nothing says "transparent unitank" like a giant lizard.


Very funny 
If you already have the pump you are more than 1/2 way there. Go for it.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

@Reg Holt Where did you get the spray ball from?


----------



## Reg Holt

I am also going to adapt the spray ball for kegs, I spoke to someone who was really helpful Darren I believe his name is, gave me some good info on keg cleaning and I have bought a plastic adapter for $10 for the kegs. Will post up pics when I get it.


----------



## Reg Holt

Fro-Daddy said:


> @Reg Holt Where did you get the spray ball from?


When I bought the snub nose fermentasaurus'us or sauri they told me at keg king they were getting some in, so I put one on backorder, didn't realise I would be paying for a plate I will probably never use. Must say my idea was just to spray PAA but with that pump it will clean off any crud, so I can use it for cleaning and sanitising.


----------



## S.E

Reg Holt said:


> Bunnings to the rescue with a pump and fittings needed.


I bought one of those XU1 submersible pumps from Bunnings a couple months ago. Was going to use it to pump water back up to a header tank in hydroponics setup but it started tripping the power after less than two weeks of being submerged. 

You may fare better if you don’t keep it submerged between uses.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

S.E said:


> I bought one of those XU1 submersible pumps from Bunnings a couple months ago. Was going to use it to pump water back up to a header tank in hydroponics setup but it started tripping the power after less than two weeks of being submerged.
> 
> You may fare better if you don’t keep it submerged between uses.


I would be taking it back Sean, I have 4 submersibles for moving water around had them all for about 8 years only one has died on me and that was the one which did the most work.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> I would be taking it back Sean, I have 4 submersibles for moving water around had them all for about 8 years only one has died on me and that was the one which did the most work.


Yep, I did take it back. I may have just had a duff one as you would expect to be able keep it submerged without leaking and tripping the power. I was quite impressed with it for the price till that happened. Are any of yours XU1 pumps?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

S.E said:


> Yep, I did take it back. I may have just had a duff one as you would expect to be able keep it submerged without leaking and tripping the power. I was quite impressed with it for the price till that happened. Are any of yours XU1 pumps?


No they weren't around when I got mine, but they were all cheapies at the time, one of them pumps the washing machine water around to the front garden. I would hate to see what that looks like on the inside.


----------



## Reg Holt

I used the spray ball set up with a shorter nipple yesterday, ideal piece of gear for cleaning cubes, hot water and perc they were done in a flash.


----------



## Cian Doyle

Well my pump will not be good for that its a small mag drive, just had a look on line 14,000 litres per hour, certainly got some grunt.


----------



## Grmblz

I use these for kegs and fermenters with a Bunnings plastic riser https://www.ebay.com/itm/G1-2-Stain...y-Spray-Ball/162957007810?hash=item25f0fe9bc2 and the 5000 ltr https://www.ebay.com/itm/Submersibl...sh-Tank-Air-AUS-/253386131014?var=&hash=item0 about $60 all up, the pump is rated for saltwater use (corrosive) and being mag drive comes apart really easily for cleaning out krausen crud.


----------



## Reg Holt

Cian Doyle said:


> Well my pump will not be good for that its a small mag drive, just had a look on line 14,000 litres per hour, certainly got some grunt.





Grmblz said:


> I use these for kegs and fermenters with a Bunnings plastic riser https://www.ebay.com/itm/G1-2-Stain...y-Spray-Ball/162957007810?hash=item25f0fe9bc2 and the 5000 ltr https://www.ebay.com/itm/Submersibl...sh-Tank-Air-AUS-/253386131014?var=&hash=item0 about $60 all up, the pump is rated for saltwater use (corrosive) and being mag drive comes apart really easily for cleaning out krausen crud.


The KK spray ball gives a good spiral spray, I think for the extra money the pump with a powerful 900 watt motor and more than double the rise of the aquarium pump is money well spent. I will be adding attachments for the kegs to blast through the gas and liquid posts at the same time.


----------



## Grmblz

Reg Holt said:


> The KK spray ball gives a good spiral spray, I think for the extra money the pump with a powerful 900 watt motor and more than double the rise of the aquarium pump is money well spent. I will be adding attachments for the kegs to blast through the gas and liquid posts at the same time.


Yeh not knocking the KK ball (I don't have one so have no idea how they perform) or sprucking the ebay one, just showing what I use for those that are thinking about getting something similar. The pump is a different story, having kept marine aquariums I know "pumps aint pumps" have lost count of the sometimes not so cheap pumps that crap out after a few months of running salt water through them, I'm not a chemist so don't know how corrosive the various chemicals are that different people use in their cleaning regime, I do know that hot (not boiling) PBW and perc' have no apparent effect on salt water aquarium pumps, power wise if I ever have to replace that pump I'll be getting the 3000 ltr one, the 5000 ltr is just a bit too powerful and creates a lot of foam/suds with PBW, also my electricity bill is bad enough as it is (running a couple of stills will do that lol) so any saving I can make is looked at closely, 80 watts (or 55 watts for the 3000 ltr model) v 900 watts is quite compelling, add in ceramic shafts (no pitting if I decide to run some bleach through it) easy disassembly (no scredrivers required) for the inevitable clogs, mag drive so if/when it does get gunked up it doesn't over heat and shit itself, and for me that's "job done" that's not to say other solutions aren't valid I'm just explaining why I use the kit that I do. For the posts I've got a couple of Bunnings dripper attachments, the threaded ones not the barbed, screwed into the base of the riser and a couple lengths of silicon tubing terminating in disconnects, if you're cleaning a keg then connect em, if it's a fermenter just leave em in the bucket, or whatever you're using as the resevoir. Hope it goes well and let us know how that monster pump goes, although I have a nasty feeling it might be like the day I ran out of tablet/bally things for the dishwasher and in my wisdom decided that dishwashing liquid would be a perfectly good substitute, that was over ten years ago and she still laughs about it. cheers G


----------



## brewermp

For people buying the fermentasauras check your gas post. Noticed the gas leak the other day and it looks like my poppet was just off centre so I needed to disassemble and redo to fix it


----------



## Millers

brewermp said:


> For people buying the fermentasauras check your gas post. Noticed the gas leak the other day and it looks like my poppet was just off centre so I needed to disassemble and redo to fix it



I have noticed that happening on a few of my posts from time to time. You may not need to dissasemble the post, I have had luck just pressing the poppet down with a screwdriver (be mindful of pressure here) to reseat the oring. I think sometimes the poppet just gets twisted over to one side, causing the o-ring on the poppet to seal unevenly. reseating it should fix this issue.


----------



## Cian Doyle

Reg Holt said:


> The KK spray ball gives a good spiral spray, I think for the extra money the pump with a powerful 900 watt motor and more than double the rise of the aquarium pump is money well spent. I will be adding attachments for the kegs to blast through the gas and liquid posts at the same time.


I have got my spray ball (didn't have to buy the plate) and the XU 1 pump, how are you connecting to the posts on the keg?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I am thinkig maybe a tee piece and reducers.


----------



## Reg Holt

wide eyed and legless said:


> I am thinking maybe a tee piece and reducers.


Nearly right, getting everything ready for the arrival of the keg holder which arrives tomorrow, will post up some pics then.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well it would seem that the naysayers were wrong, the Snubby out selling the saurus 1. I do think the size has the most impact, especially when deliberating the pro's and con's.


----------



## dkril

wide eyed and legless said:


> Well it would seem that the naysayers were wrong, the Snubby out selling the saurus 1. I do think the size has the most impact, especially when deliberating the pro's and con's.


ATM I suspect a lot of people are buying them who couldn't (for some reason) use the original Fermentasaurus, hence the rush of sales. After KL finally release the gen 2, and the initial rush is over to get hold of those, it will be interesting to see which of the 3 (original, snub, or zilla) sells the best.

Long term will be the true test (as it usually is).


----------



## Neil Buttriss

I just sit my saurus on one of those old sprinklers, little round ones with about 1/4 inch spray hole in it. Then just sanitize the saurus.


----------



## Reg Holt

dkril said:


> ATM I suspect a lot of people are buying them who couldn't (for some reason) use the original Fermentasaurus, hence the rush of sales. After KL finally release the gen 2, and the initial rush is over to get hold of those, it will be interesting to see which of the 3 (original, snub, or zilla) sells the best.
> 
> Long term will be the true test (as it usually is).


I think the size would have been a negative with the original, the cost of the snubnose would also be a major factor for its popularity. As for the Fermentasaurus 3 the question would have to be asked will it ferment any better than the snubnose or the Fermentasaurus 1, I would say no, so it will remain to be seen what advantages it will bring.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Neil Buttriss said:


> I just sit my saurus on one of those old sprinklers, little round ones with about 1/4 inch spray hole in it. Then just sanitize the saurus.


Which sprinklers are they?


----------



## Neil Buttriss

wide eyed and legless said:


> Which sprinklers are they?


They are about $5 at the Big Green Shed, I just adjust the spray it gets all sides, simple is good. You could rig it up to a pump if you wanted to use a solution but I have found do this first to get rid of the crusty stuff then wash it out by hand.


----------



## jollster101

wide eyed and legless said:


> Having the extra head space and letting the yeast do its stuff is a plus, if someone wants to pressure ferment cap it after 2 days, still plenty of co2 to get to pressure. This is the pic I posted of the fermentation after pitching dry yeast on to an zero aerated/oxygenated wort.
> View attachment 115347
> Both fermenters got the krausen all the way to the top.


Did you cap after two days and then put a spunding valve on or just leave it as is having capped?

If you used a SV then what PSI did you set it to to allow for some self carbonation?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I don't bother with pressure fermenting most of my beers are English style I want the esters coming through if you are making American style hop forward beer then cap and take it up to 15 psi for carbonating. You will need a spunding valve, I have seen this one in action and I would say it is the best on the market.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SPUNDit...m41de508c87:g:WBAAAOSwX2xav0Q0&frcectupt=true


----------



## Grmblz

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't bother with pressure fermenting most of my beers are English style I want the esters coming through if you are making American style hop forward beer then cap and take it up to 15 psi for carbonating. You will need a spunding valve, I have seen this one in action and I would say it is the best on the market.
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SPUNDit...m41de508c87:g:WBAAAOSwX2xav0Q0&frcectupt=true


Or this https://www.ikegger.com/products/di...135028657&mc_cid=b676e4389b&mc_eid=ef7b1f5a25 or this https://www.kegland.com.au/blowtie-diaphragm-spunding-valve-kit.html yeh, you don't have to be a rocket scientist "chuckles"


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> Or this https://www.ikegger.com/products/di...135028657&mc_cid=b676e4389b&mc_eid=ef7b1f5a25 or this https://www.kegland.com.au/blowtie-diaphragm-spunding-valve-kit.html yeh, you don't have to be a rocket scientist "chuckles"


No you don't have to be a rocket scientist but knowledge of the two spunding valves is an advantage.
The Spundit can hold a low pressure, the gauge (which is not a $2.00 jobbie) cannot be damaged or blocked should any krausen get into the system, and the adjustment is a fine thread adjustment for better control, it can also be monitored with a phone app


----------



## Grmblz

Certainly looks the goods and appears to be a quality product, but at $101.00 (the postage kills it) it becomes a hard sell.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

It is quality, and more for those who are serious about pressure fermenting or low oxygen brewing.


----------



## markp

Guess what, keg king will be stocking the spundit [emoji15]


----------



## wide eyed and legless

markp said:


> Guess what, keg king will be stocking the spundit [emoji15]


I doubt it first off it has a patent, second how could they compete with an eBay seller, who is not a wholesaler.


----------



## markp

wide eyed and legless said:


> I doubt it first off it has a patent, second how could they compete with an eBay seller, who is not a wholesaler.



Read the fermentasaurus users group on Facebook, will fiala has stated that keg king will have the spundit valves in stock by the end of April !


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## wide eyed and legless

markp said:


> Read the fermentasaurus users group on Facebook, will fiala has stated that keg king will have the spundit valves in stock by the end of April !


How much?


----------



## markp

wide eyed and legless said:


> How much?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well that's blown my little enterprise out of the water, I am over there in 3 weeks and was going to bring a couple of dozen back with me.


----------



## kaiserben

I recently bought the snub nose (and bought a Kegmaster fridge at the same time). I was keen on closed transfers and also moving from bottling to kegging.

Because one of the selling points of the snub was to ferment, carbonate and serve all in the one vessel, my plan is to try serving directly out of primary. But mostly I'll be transferring each fermented batch into 2 kegs for conditioning (because I split my batches with a mate). 

My first batch, a schwarzbier, went in at the weekend. 

The snubby was extremely easy to move when filled with 23L. There was a lot of cold break in the cone (which there also would have been when using my old HDPE fermenters, but I wouldn't usually be able to see, and albeit with slightly less contact surface area in the snubby than in HDPE). After about 48-72 hours I could see a layer of yeast (way more than I'd pitched) had formed on top of the cold break stuff. 

I did notice that when you put the spunding valve on the gas disconnect you can't actually fit it on to the lid's post due to the height not fitting under the roof of the Kegmaster series 4 firdge. So I guess I'll need to either buy a SS disconnect (which angles out at 90 degrees) or see if I can attach a bit of hosing between the disconnect and the spunding valve to make it fit. Anyway that was slightly annoying and you'd think they'd sell you something that actually works out of the box. But overall I'm very happy with it all. 

I'm a bit clueless about fermenting under pressure. I'm not particularly interested pressure fermenting, moreso just the closed system and keeping oxygen away. I assume I'm meant to have the spunding valve attached during ferment? My initial plan is to just keep periodically releasing pressure (via the safety pin) until the ferment is complete, then pressure transfer half to a 9.5L keg for safe keeping, while briefly lagering the remainder before serving it off the yeast cake directly out of the snub.


----------



## kaiserben

I should also say that the amount of cold break surprised me, and I'm assuming it's down to the fact I use a counter-flow chiller.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Always best to leave all the break and hop material in the kettle. The Fermentasaurus 3 would be the better option if you are putting the trub into the fermenter, supereasy to dump the trub.


----------



## kaiserben

I might just use a HDPE container for that from now on; ie let it settle out in a container before pouring it into the snub before oxygenating and pitching yeast. 

I've done the same (but using 2 x HDPE containers) before for stuff I was particularly worried about (eg kolsch). At the same time I've not bothered with a heaps of other batches and the beers have still turned out great. I've just been blissfully unaware of how much trub there was until I could see it clearly through the clear plastic of the snub.


----------



## Truman42

Just read through this entire thread and still not sure if the fermentasaurus is the way to go for me. Ive gone back to bottling most brews as I dont drink as much these days. 
I dont think ill pressure ferment very often unless i am doing a batch for a keg, so most of the time will want to ferment with an airlock, dump the trub and yeast, and then prime in the fermenter and bottle. i like the idea of not having to transfer to a secondary to bulk prime. One less step on brew day.

So when adding priming solution what is the method for adding it to the fermenter without adding any oxygen as well and making sure it is stirred through thoroughly? Could you pump it through the liquid out post somehow? My concern would be that it would sink down to the bottom so the first few bottles are over primed?


----------



## Truman42

Also whats the difference between the fermentasuarus 2 and 3 and is the 3 actually what they sell at KK now?


----------



## Truman42

Anyone??


----------



## Nullnvoid

I didn't know there was a fermentasaurus 2 or 3. 

Please tell me the differences?


----------



## TwoCrows

https://www.keg-king.com.au/brewery-equipment/fermenters.html

I believe the Gen2 selling at Keg King is the butterfly valve, And it is an upgrade for the Gen 1 Fermentasaurus.

https://www.kegland.com.au/brew-gear/fermenters/fermentasaurus.html 

Keg Land has the Gen 2 Fermentasurii coming soon.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> Just read through this entire thread and still not sure if the fermentasaurus is the way to go for me. Ive gone back to bottling most brews as I dont drink as much these days.
> I dont think ill pressure ferment very often unless i am doing a batch for a keg, so most of the time will want to ferment with an airlock, dump the trub and yeast, and then prime in the fermenter and bottle. i like the idea of not having to transfer to a secondary to bulk prime. One less step on brew day.
> 
> So when adding priming solution what is the method for adding it to the fermenter without adding any oxygen as well and making sure it is stirred through thoroughly? Could you pump it through the liquid out post somehow? My concern would be that it would sink down to the bottom so the first few bottles are over primed?


I use a second snubby as a secondary,, the exhausting co2 is discharged into the secodary making for an oxygen free transfer. If bottling i will then let the beer finish fermenting as normal through a blow off tube and prime as normal for bottling. It would be almost impossible to know how much priming sugar to add to a pressurised transfered beer.


Truman42 said:


> Also whats the difference between the fermentasuarus 2 and 3 and is the 3 actually what they sell at KK now?


The Fermentasaurus 3 is the new one to be released by Keg King, Keg Land has the Fermzilla 1 & 2 when they are released.


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> I use a second snubby as a secondary,, the exhausting co2 is discharged into the secodary making for an oxygen free transfer. If bottling i will then let the beer finish fermenting as normal through a blow off tube and prime as normal for bottling. It would be almost impossible to know how much priming sugar to add to a pressurised transfered beer.
> 
> The Fermentasaurus 3 is the new one to be released by Keg King, Keg Land has the Fermzilla 1 & 2 when they are released.



So when you bulk prime in the fermenter how do you ensure you are getting the priming solution mixed in thoroughly? 

So what improvements does the Fermentasuarus 3 have over the 2 and when does it come out?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> So when you bulk prime in the fermenter how do you ensure you are getting the priming solution mixed in thoroughly?
> 
> So what improvements does the Fermentasuarus 3 have over the 2 and when does it come out?


If you are going to bottle best to use abottling bucket to prime or drink straight from the secondary if you have added pressure.
Not sure when the Fermentasaurus 3 will be released but from what I have been told there are a couple of extra features which are pretty damn good.


----------



## Mya

Fermentasaurus Gen 2 (Called Fermzilla 1 or 2?) is listed on Keg Land as "Due to be released to a wider audience in 2019" but you are already talking about a release of a Gen 3 (which is a fermentasaurus gen 3 not a fermzilla?) on KK before Gen 2 has even been released on Keg Land? God that's confusing and a horrible marketing practice?

Compounding the issue the listing on Keg Land is "Fermentasaurus Gen 2" but this is actually Fermzilla gen 1 or gen 2 while the one on Keg King is truly a Fermentasaurus gen 2?


----------



## Bruer

kaiserben said:


> I recently bought the snub nose (and bought a Kegmaster fridge at the same time). I was keen on closed transfers and also moving from bottling to kegging.
> 
> Because one of the selling points of the snub was to ferment, carbonate and serve all in the one vessel, my plan is to try serving directly out of primary. But mostly I'll be transferring each fermented batch into 2 kegs for conditioning (because I split my batches with a mate).
> 
> My first batch, a schwarzbier, went in at the weekend.
> 
> The snubby was extremely easy to move when filled with 23L. There was a lot of cold break in the cone (which there also would have been when using my old HDPE fermenters, but I wouldn't usually be able to see, and albeit with slightly less contact surface area in the snubby than in HDPE). After about 48-72 hours I could see a layer of yeast (way more than I'd pitched) had formed on top of the cold break stuff.
> 
> I did notice that when you put the spunding valve on the gas disconnect you can't actually fit it on to the lid's post due to the height not fitting under the roof of the Kegmaster series 4 firdge. So I guess I'll need to either buy a SS disconnect (which angles out at 90 degrees) or see if I can attach a bit of hosing between the disconnect and the spunding valve to make it fit. Anyway that was slightly annoying and you'd think they'd sell you something that actually works out of the box. But overall I'm very happy with it all.
> 
> I'm a bit clueless about fermenting under pressure. I'm not particularly interested pressure fermenting, moreso just the closed system and keeping oxygen away. I assume I'm meant to have the spunding valve attached during ferment? My initial plan is to just keep periodically releasing pressure (via the safety pin) until the ferment is complete, then pressure transfer half to a 9.5L keg for safe keeping, while briefly lagering the remainder before serving it off the yeast cake directly out of the snub.


I just got a snub nose too. I run a blow off tube to a keg liquid post and then out the gas post to a jug of Star San. You get a keg purged of oxygen using the CO2 from your ferment. I've connected two kegs in series too.


----------



## devoutharpist

Does the snubnose come with handles for lifting? It looks like it has some in the KK videos, but not on the website. Just wondering how you'd go about shifting this when it's full of liquid. Especially if it were in a chest freezer fermentation chamber.


----------



## Bruer

devoutharpist said:


> Does the snubnose come with handles for lifting? It looks like it has some in the KK videos, but not on the website. Just wondering how you'd go about shifting this when it's full of liquid. Especially if it were in a chest freezer fermentation chamber.


It does but the stand is upside down compared to the regular fermentasaurus. Its not hard to swap the handle location though. Pair of pliers and you're laughing. I lift mine in and out of the chest freezer ferm chamber with no problems.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Caught a glimpse of the new, (I can't call it Fermentasarus) looks like the age of the fermenting dinosaur is over! Out, the space taking butterfly valve, Out, the collection bottle. In tri clover fittings. Looks like the fresh critical key minds of this unit are onto a winner.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Caught a glimpse of the new, (I can't call it Fermentasarus) looks like the age of the fermenting dinosaur is over! Out, the space taking butterfly valve, Out, the collection bottle. In tri clover fittings. Looks like the fresh critical key minds of this unit are onto a winner.



When will it be released?

Indication of price?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The one I saw was the prototype, the punter who can come up with a name for this unit gets it for free! Certainly is a game changer! putting all bias aside.Get your thinking cap on NaV they may be releasing some more info tomorrow or the next day.


----------



## awfulknauful

wide eyed and legless said:


> Caught a glimpse of the new, (I can't call it Fermentasarus) looks like the age of the fermenting dinosaur is over! Out, the space taking butterfly valve, Out, the collection bottle. In tri clover fittings. Looks like the fresh critical key minds of this unit are onto a winner.


So does this mean the mark2 butterfly valve I recently bought for my Fermentasaurus is now obsolete?


----------



## Meddo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Caught a glimpse of the new, (I can't call it Fermentasarus) looks like the age of the fermenting dinosaur is over! Out, the space taking butterfly valve, Out, the collection bottle. In tri clover fittings. Looks like the fresh critical key minds of this unit are onto a winner.


What's a space-taking butterfly valve? Or more to the point, what's a more compact valve than a butterfly? I've seen some ball valves that are similar size to a butterfly but the vast majority and all diaphragm valves are bigger than butterflies.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> So does this mean the mark2 butterfly valve I recently bought for my Fermentasaurus is now obsolete?


I would hope that all those with a Fermentasaurus would be able to up grade to the new model, and yes your vave is obsolete.



Meddo said:


> What's a space-taking butterfly valve? Or more to the point, what's a more compact valve than a butterfly? I've seen some ball valves that are similar size to a butterfly but the vast majority and all diaphragm valves are bigger than butterflies.


I think part of the problem when thinking about the design of a fermenter everyone would be looking at what is available.
The thinking here is more than out of the square, there is NO valve, I would have liked to have taken some pics but I will leave that to them.
So, no stripping down and cleaning valves which is a bonus, I would say it would also be a great adaption to put on their s/steel Guten model, considering a thermowell is a part of the mechanics of this simple system.
So in place of a butterfly valve, take the GER out of Tony Locket is a clue, spring loaded and adjustable.


----------



## Meddo

Fair point, but looking at what's available implies interchangeability, flexibility and competition which is a good thing. Bespoke and improved (hopefully) solutions are good too but can lock you into the manufacturer's view of the best way to do things, which may not match mine.

Having said that, is this solution that you speak of a tri-clamp component itself? If so then that's best of both worlds - if I don't like it I can swap it for something I do. If the big fella has a spring and adjustment in it then technically it may not be a valve but it will still have some complexity to clean, I'm assuming. Interested to see it. I've had some thoughts myself on valve-less trub and yeast removal but every solution has its compromises.

So do you have any idea on when these are likely to be made available for purchase?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> Fair point, but looking at what's available implies interchangeability, flexibility and competition which is a good thing. Bespoke and improved (hopefully) solutions are good too but can lock you into the manufacturer's view of the best way to do things, which may not match mine.
> 
> Having said that, is this solution that you speak of a tri-clamp component itself? If so then that's best of both worlds - if I don't like it I can swap it for something I do. If the big fella has a spring and adjustment in it then technically it may not be a valve but it will still have some complexity to clean, I'm assuming. Interested to see it. I've had some thoughts myself on valve-less trub and yeast removal but every solution has its compromises.
> 
> So do you have any idea on when these are likely to be made available for purchase?


Cleaning is as simple as the whole concept, it's as if the team behind the design have not been influenced or even seen a fermenter, I am a great believer in keeping things as simple as possible, this is so simple I am jealous.
I expect KK to be putting something up today or tomorrow, the parts for the proto type I believe were manufactured on site, so once they have everything sorted the parts will be manufactured overseas. Cost I wouldn't have a clue, but if it was me I would certainly be milking it before it got copied


----------



## Meddo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Cleaning is as simple as the whole concept, it's as if the team behind the design have not been influenced or even seen a fermenter, I am a great believer in keeping things as simple as possible, this is so simple I am jealous.
> I expect KK to be putting something up today or tomorrow, the parts for the proto type I believe were manufactured on site, so once they have everything sorted the parts will be manufactured overseas. Cost I wouldn't have a clue, but if it was me I would certainly be milking it before it got copied


Hey weal, does it have tri clamp ports top and bottom?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A few exciting new developments and unfortunately a code of omerta is now in place, but the good news is it will be released around September, October.


----------



## devoutharpist

Anyone done a dry hop in a hopsock/bag/etc in a snubnose or regular saurus? 

Ideally i would just dry hop loose and cold crash, but my "fridge" only heats these days so im going with south australian ambient winter temperatures for cooling. Figure i only have a couple of months left where this will be an effective method. 

So to avoid the 80g or so getting sucked into the keg i am planning to use a hop sock. My only thought is the bag might get it self sucked up into the tube a bit on the pressure transfer?


----------



## Reg Holt

devoutharpist said:


> Anyone done a dry hop in a hopsock/bag/etc in a snubnose or regular saurus?
> 
> Ideally i would just dry hop loose and cold crash, but my "fridge" only heats these days so im going with south australian ambient winter temperatures for cooling. Figure i only have a couple of months left where this will be an effective method.
> 
> So to avoid the 80g or so getting sucked into the keg i am planning to use a hop sock. My only thought is the bag might get it self sucked up into the tube a bit on the pressure transfer?


I dry hop with the nylon tea bags 3,4 or 5 depending on the amount of hops, purged in the keg with the CO2 . Keeps the hops contained while releasing the flavour.

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...0.Xtea+bags.TRS0&_nkw=empty+tea+bags&_sacat=0


----------



## devoutharpist

Reg Holt said:


> I dry hop with the nylon tea bags 3,4 or 5 depending on the amount of hops, purged in the keg with the CO2 . Keeps the hops contained while releasing the flavour.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...0.Xtea+bags.TRS0&_nkw=empty+tea+bags&_sacat=0



Might give these a go in the keg, or even in the fermented. They look a lot more manageable than my big hop sock.


----------



## Meddo

Does anyone have the overall height of the snub nose, from base of stand to top of a disconnect on the pressure cap?


----------



## Meddo

Also, a photo of the pressure cap from above would be handy please if anyone can help out?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> Does anyone have the overall height of the snub nose, from base of stand to top of a disconnect on the pressure cap?


0,685mm


----------



## Cian Doyle

wide eyed and legless said:


> A few exciting new developments and unfortunately a code of omerta is now in place, but the good news is it will be released around September, October.


I have been in Melbourne this week, called into KK yesterday, hidden in plain sight was the new fermentasaurus, though it did have a pullover on it. I am happy with the Snub Nose but I could quite happily bring one of these into the fold.


----------



## sp0rk

Cian Doyle said:


> I have been in Melbourne this week, called into KK yesterday, hidden in plain sight was the new fermentasaurus, though it did have a pullover on it. I am happy with the Snub Nose but I could quite happily bring one of these into the fold.


Such a cock tease!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Cian Doyle said:


> I have been in Melbourne this week, called into KK yesterday, hidden in plain sight was the new fermentasaurus, though it did have a pullover on it. I am happy with the Snub Nose but I could quite happily bring one of these into the fold.


So much for the code of omerta, I suppose you had a peek under the pullover.


----------



## Truman42

Cian Doyle said:


> I have been in Melbourne this week, called into KK yesterday, hidden in plain sight was the new fermentasaurus, though it did have a pullover on it. I am happy with the Snub Nose but I could quite happily bring one of these into the fold.


I saw that and asked Yuri why is it covered up. He said to stop lighting getting in..I looked at him and smiled. When he was out of the shop I was going to take a sneak peak but he came back in..lol


----------



## Cian Doyle

wide eyed and legless said:


> So much for the code of omerta, I suppose you had a peek under the pullover.


Actually I did, I thought the bottom part was missing until I saw the set up, Yuri caught me looking and nearly took my fingers off in the fridge door.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> I saw that and asked Yuri why is it covered up. He said to stop lighting getting in..I looked at him and smiled. When he was out of the shop I was going to take a sneak peak but he came back in..lol


I asked for a bit more exposure of the new fermentasaurus, was told the Jumper can come off but the knickers are staying on.


----------



## Reg Holt

wide eyed and legless said:


> I asked for a bit more exposure of the new fermentasaurus, was told the Jumper can come off but the knickers are staying on.


How long do you think WEAL before we can view the new Fermentasaurus without jumper and knickers? I think I have a good idea of the new set up, the built in thermowell gave it away but it would be good to see it.
Went through this whole thread again today watched the un boxing of the Fermentasaurus certainly does look like a lot of difference in quality between the Aussie made Fermentasaurus and the Chinese made Fermzilla.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reg Holt said:


> How long do you think WEAL before we can view the new Fermentasaurus without jumper and knickers? I think I have a good idea of the new set up, the built in thermowell gave it away but it would be good to see it.
> Went through this whole thread again today watched the un boxing of the Fermentasaurus certainly does look like a lot of difference in quality between the Aussie made Fermentasaurus and the Chinese made Fermzilla.



From what I am told it is not far away for the big reveal. The Fermzilla does have a superior stand though. All though I have never heard of any problems eventuating from the Fermentasaurus stand.


----------



## awesomefury

Will they be doing a 55-60L version of the KK FS v2. I like to look of the KL 55L Fermzilla, not available at the moment though. Not sure if I should wait and see if the FS v2 is any different, I do like the way SS conicals work and would just like a plastic one exactly the same.

A feature request would be a plastic jacketed fermenter, I'm sure it can be done but haven't seen one yet.

Wish they would hurry up and release the KK FS v2 details or at least show us pics so I can see if its worth waiting for.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

They will be producing a 60 litre Fermentasaurus, will also have a larger top opening, though it isn't really needed a cold soak overnight with sodium percarbonate or perborate cleans them, as long as the chemicals are dissolved first in hot water or you make up a sprayball set up. They will have jackets and if the new cooling systems are purchased a thicker insulated jacket will be available.
I was hoping a September release would still be on the cards for the new set up for the existing Fermentasaurus, as (reading on the More Beer website) a further delay for the Fermzilla now expected in mid September could put the two models head to head.
Fermzilla seems to be having production problems methinks.
I have been lucky enough to see the prototype of the new Fermentasaurus, had my doubts about holding pressure but they were proved to be found less, honest opinion having seen both, wait for the new model Fermentasaurus. I will continue with my snubnose, but it does seem that there is a large amount of brewers who like to put the trub into the fermenter just so they can take it out again!
Or catch the yeast in a bottle.


----------



## ABG

wide eyed and legless said:


> I will continue with my snubnose, but it does seem that there is a large amount of brewers who like to put the trub into the fermenter just so they can take it out again!
> Or catch the yeast in a bottle.


What steps do you take to stop getting any trub into your fermenter?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

ABG said:


> What steps do you take to stop getting any trub into your fermenter?


Adding the carrageenan of your choice, dip tube and a slow pour into the fermenter, if you have a 1/2 inch ball valve make a reducer, I followed Braumeisters lead and made mine 8 mm. 
It could open the proverbial can of worms about nutrient for yeast but that is by the by, there is simply no point in putting trub into the fermenter just to take it out.


----------



## devoutharpist

Did my first closed transfer last night (finally!). Only one issue, about 5L in the dip tube somehow managed to turn itself around to face upwards and suck in the CO2 instead of the beer. Well, i'm hoping CO2 if i had purged correctly after dry hopping. 

Tried to blast some CO2 through the liquid out post to try and turn it around, but in the end i had to gently rock the fermenter to get it to roll over again, which wasn't ideal given all the work the yeast put into settling out at the bottom.

Anyone else had this? Is there an easy fix?


----------



## Fro-Daddy

If the float is touching the edge I can usually tap it and get it to move, never had the rolling issue though.


----------



## Grmblz

Fro-Daddy said:


> If the float is touching the edge I can usually tap it and get it to move, never had the rolling issue though.


+1 Watch it like a hawk, on average I have to give 3 taps to side of fermenter during a full transfer. This seems a better solution https://beerco.com.au/products/clear-beer-draught-system but jeez it's pricy.


----------



## Vic

devoutharpist said:


> Did my first closed transfer last night (finally!). Only one issue, about 5L in the dip tube somehow managed to turn itself around to face upwards and suck in the CO2 instead of the beer. Well, i'm hoping CO2 if i had purged correctly after dry hopping.
> 
> Tried to blast some CO2 through the liquid out post to try and turn it around, but in the end i had to gently rock the fermenter to get it to roll over again, which wasn't ideal given all the work the yeast put into settling out at the bottom.
> 
> Anyone else had this? Is there an easy fix?


Shorten the dip tube so that it is just above the bottom. You can also add a weight to the tube, the inter tap growler filler is.ideal. This stops the dip tube riding down the side and sucking up any crud still attached to the cone.


----------



## jollster101

What are others using for a weight to pull the floating dip tube down slightly? I find that when I am doing a closed transfer to a keg, the first 13 or 14 litres is ok and then then dip tube starts to roll around a little. I have to then start tilting the vessel to get the tube to drop back under the surface of the liquid and by the time I finish I find I am balancing the vessel somewhere near to a 75 degree angle to make sure I get the most of my precious brew.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Has anyone put hops into the yeast catching bottle at the initial start of the fermentation. I was thinking of trying it and then maybe dumping after 4 days or so. So sort of dry hop at the beginning


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Neil Buttriss said:


> Has anyone put hops into the yeast catching bottle at the initial start of the fermentation. I was thinking of trying it and then maybe dumping after 4 days or so. So sort of dry hop at the beginning


From what I have read, (Peter Wolfe thesis) dry hopping is better carried out towards the finish of fermentation


----------



## Neil Buttriss

wide eyed and legless said:


> From what I have read, (Peter Wolfe thesis) dry hopping is better carried out towards the finish of fermentation


Yeah my normal thoughts, I'm not a big dry hopper and only dry hop maybe a Pale Ale now and then, just wondering as to the effect it might have on flavour and aroma. Might experiment but not expecting anything to flash I guess


----------



## Dan Pratt

wide eyed and legless said:


> From what I have read, (Peter Wolfe thesis) dry hopping is better carried out towards the finish of fermentation



After 5 yrs of NEIPA style exploration and sceince proving 'bio- transformation' is real, dry hopping at the end of fermentatin no longer producing the best aromatic outcomes.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Dan Pratt said:


> After 5 yrs of NEIPA style exploration and sceince proving 'bio- transformation' is real, dry hopping at the end of fermentatin no longer producing the best aromatic outcomes.


The bio-transformation is of the terpenoids only, according to the research carried out dry hopping is best carried out when the beer has been taken off the yeast bed, because of the effect of the yeast has on the hops. I think a lot of home brewers worry about the reverse what effect the dry hops will have on the yeast.


----------



## Dan Pratt

wide eyed and legless said:


> The bio-transformation is of the terpenoids only, according to the research carried out dry hopping is best carried out when the beer has been taken off the yeast bed, because of the effect of the yeast has on the hops. I think a lot of home brewers worry about the reverse what effect the dry hops will have on the yeast.



I though that research is now outdated since the biotransformation studies occured, but in saying that, that process is only achieved with particular hops types so overall best outcomes in general, would be from beer removed from the yeast agreed.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Thanks guy's, I think I will keep doing it the normal way, off the yeast bed as I usually do. As I said I only dry hop about 1 brew every 5 if that.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Dan Pratt said:


> I though that research is now outdated since the biotransformation studies occured, but in saying that, that process is only achieved with particular hops types so overall best outcomes in general, would be from beer removed from the yeast agreed.


If you haven't read it Dan here is a link just click on Download PDF
https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/concern/graduate_thesis_or_dissertations/rx913t14h
Wolfe has covered it pretty extensively and an interesting read, but in saying that if you see what the American craft brewers are doing they all seem to have their own methods.


----------



## Truman42

There was a post somewhere here on AHB (I think) where someone used tri clamp fittings and a butterfly valve connected to the bottom of there fermentasuarus. But I cant seem to find it. Does anyone know where this post might be? Im after the links to the tri clover fittings?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> There was a post somewhere here on AHB (I think) where someone used tri clamp fittings and a butterfly valve connected to the bottom of there fermentasuarus. But I cant seem to find it. Does anyone know where this post might be? Im after the links to the tri clover fittings?


Modding the fermentasaurus https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/modding-the-fermentasaurus.98202/


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> Modding the fermentasaurus https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/modding-the-fermentasaurus.98202/


Cheers mate..


----------



## CKK

Truman42 said:


> There was a post somewhere here on AHB (I think) where someone used tri clamp fittings and a butterfly valve connected to the bottom of there fermentasuarus. But I cant seem to find it. Does anyone know where this post might be? Im after the links to the tri clover fittings?


If you can wait a few more weeks then you can get the new gen 3 fermentasaurus upgrade kit which has a tri clover elbow on the bottom. I think we will have one on show in about 3 weeks and small qty on sale soon afterwards.


----------



## Truman42

CEO Keg King said:


> If you can wait a few more weeks then you can get the new gen 3 fermentasaurus upgrade kit which has a tri clover elbow on the bottom. I think we will have one on show in about 3 weeks and small qty on sale soon afterwards.


Sounds great and yes I can wait,...cheers


----------



## malt and barley blues

Oooh look a Silosaurus! I would like to see any vermin get some purchase on that with it's choppers.


----------



## Edward Rowe

malt and barley blues said:


> Oooh look a Silosaurus! I would like to see any vermin get some purchase on that with it's choppers.
> View attachment 116592



How do you know what you are getting?


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

probably more for animal feed


----------



## sp0rk

CEO Keg King said:


> If you can wait a few more weeks then you can get the new gen 3 fermentasaurus upgrade kit which has a tri clover elbow on the bottom. I think we will have one on show in about 3 weeks and small qty on sale soon afterwards.


Would love to get my hands on one to do a review


----------



## malt and barley blues

Edward Rowe said:


> How do you know what you are getting?


Just the stand and the silo, scales not included.


----------



## Frothy Boi

Does any one elses snub look like this? This is fresh out of the box un-used.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The first pic mine looks the same the second pic is that the light giving it a darker hue?


----------



## Frothy Boi

wide eyed and legless said:


> The first pic mine looks the same the second pic is that the light giving it a darker hue?


Thats the actual colour of the "blemishes" when you look thru the light, like it got cooked during the molding process. I can't tell if it's on the inside or outside.


----------



## Edward Rowe

malt and barley blues said:


> Just the stand and the silo, scales not included.



All for $2 a kilo, bargain!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

sp0rk said:


> Would love to get my hands on one to do a review


That's my job.


----------



## sp0rk

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's my job.


I KNEW IT!
YOU PAID SHILL!
/s


----------



## CKK

Edward Rowe said:


> How do you know what you are getting?


Well usually you would just put one type of malt per unit. We think this is a nice way for brewers to store their malt so that it not only looks the part in a brewers corner but also keeps out rodents and moisture. End of November it will also be available in a 60 litre version which handles a bag and a half of malt.


----------



## CKK

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> probably more for animal feed


Absolutely could be used for dog and cat food, dispensing nuts and much more.


----------



## Edward Rowe

CEO Keg King said:


> Well usually you would just put one type of malt per unit. We think this is a nice way for brewers to store their malt so that it not only looks the part in a brewers corner but also keeps out rodents and moisture. End of November it will also be available in a 60 litre version which handles a bag and a half of malt.



No, but in this picture there is a variety of malts at $2 per kilo. How do you know what you are getting if you were to purchase from that barrel?


----------



## Edward Rowe

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's my job.



Don't you work for them? That's the impression I have always had. Surely you would get one as a perk of the job to trial?


----------



## CKK

Edward Rowe said:


> No, but in this picture there is a variety of malts at $2 per kilo. How do you know what you are getting if you were to purchase from that barrel?


At $2 a kilo its just a lucky DIP as to what you get. Please don’t lose any sleep over it. Some people like to do a mix and see what comes out. Maybe not for you but for many its a bit of fun.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Edward Rowe said:


> Don't you work for them? That's the impression I have always had. Surely you would get one as a perk of the job to trial?


No, I don't work for them, I doubt there would be any call for a gardener. I probably could get one to trial if I asked nicely, I have seen how it works and it works well, but as I don't like to get any trub into the fermenter, and I just swill and pour out the yeast I haven't really any need for one. The Snubby does me fine.


----------



## thehomebrewchef

My first run of the snub nose today. 28lt batch of Old Speckled Hen in my fermentation fridge just starting to tick over. 

So far, I’m very impressed, oxygen free transfers to cornies, easy to clean, not so hard to move around and the ability for me to hook it up easily to my beer engine for dispensing like a cask. And all for under $80. The fact it doesn’t have a dump valve isn’t an issue for me - I’m all about maximising yeast, but I save some of my starter each batch, so harvesting after fermentation isn’t a need for me. 

At the end of the day, each to their own, you can spend $1000s on jacketed stainless conicals and bright tanks, if you want to, but for me, $80 and it fits in my fridge is bang on target. 

It wouldn’t make a difference if it was from KK or KL, it fits my needs and I’m more than happy with it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless




----------



## sp0rk

I was going to post earlier asking how this was going
I'll be ordering ASAP pending price


----------



## CKK

sp0rk said:


> I was going to post earlier asking how this was going
> I'll be ordering ASAP pending price


Price is same as current model Fermentasaurus but that does not include the stainless steel cooling coil. This is actually a price decrease as pressure lid is now standard and not an extra cost.


----------



## Meddo

How does this adapt to tri clamp?

And what's the length of the coil submerged in a standard single batch?

Cheers


----------



## thehomebrewchef

What’s the stainless thing running down the centre with a ‘t’ piece top? Didn’t have one on my snub nose I picked up last week?


----------



## CKK

thehomebrewchef said:


> What’s the stainless thing running down the centre with a ‘t’ piece top? Didn’t have one on my snub nose I picked up last week?



This is a very good observation. Its the actuation arm for the plunger valve at the bottom. It serves three important functions. Firstly its used to pull the valve plunger up to open the hole in the bottom. This replaces the old butterfly dump valves which are more difficult to clean and sanitise. Also means that the opening is now exactly circular with no obstructions such as the butterfly valve disc. This allows for improved flow and so a larger opening is not necessary or even desirable. The second function is that its an integral thermowell. Now the brewer can insert a temperature probe right into the middle of the beer to get an accurate reading. The third use is as an anchor point for the floating ball pick up tube. This means that the beer will now always be picked up from the middle and cannot go of to the side of the tank. We plan to add this to future snubnose gen 3 units but the valve actuation function is of course not necessary. The other two functions though are still useful.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> How does this adapt to tri clamp?
> 
> And what's the length of the coil submerged in a standard single batch?
> 
> Cheers


The bottom valve opening has a standard thread on to which goes a 2" tri-clover adaptor or another adaptor for the collection bottle or spigot. The length of the coil is not of major importance as the cooling capability is quite good. From memory I think its about 1.3 metres.


----------



## awfulknauful

No leaks, dents, stress fractures, top lid sealing OK? I like the dump valve, so simple it should have been thought of before, I can see that getting copied.


----------



## CKK

awfulknauful said:


> No leaks, dents, stress fractures, top lid sealing OK? I like the dump valve, so simple it should have been thought of before, I can see that getting copied.



Sadly you are right. We have already seen a good idea like the snubnose being copied although our product is still better we believe. We will just try to stay ahead by coming up with new improvements and control of quality. Because we manufacture locally and make high quality PET tanks I think we can offer something better than most.


----------



## awfulknauful

A nice little glycol cooler and a jacket would tempt me seeing as you have the cooling coil, to be honest I am even tempted without them. Keep up the good work.


----------



## thehomebrewchef

What was already great just got greater! Well done KK team  although, I’d hate to be the guy that, after a few beers, goes to pick up the unit via the top ‘t’ piece in a lapse of concentration, and watch an entire brew day empty onto the floor in a matter of seconds...


----------



## CKK

thehomebrewchef said:


> What was already great just got greater! Well done KK team  although, I’d hate to be the guy that, after a few beers, goes to pick up the unit via the top ‘t’ piece in a lapse of concentration, and watch an entire brew day empty onto the floor in a matter of
> 
> Well I think it would take a fair few beers to get that sad situation but no doubt someone will do it. We can offer a cap to prevent it or at least leave the bottle on there.


----------



## CKK

awfulknauful said:


> A nice little glycol cooler and a jacket would tempt me seeing as you have the cooling coil, to be honest I am even tempted without them. Keep up the good work.


Well look at this then.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Looks good KK. couple of quick ones. Is it still 35 litres? I like this size as i can do a 30 litre batch in my guten and fill 9.5l and 19litre kegs.

In weals photo it looks like the centre rod is threaded, is this so it screws into place?

What purpose does the little cardboard tube serve in the pictures with the glycol chiller?


----------



## CKK

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Looks good KK. couple of quick ones. Is it still 35 litres? I like this size as i can do a 30 litre batch in my guten and fill 9.5l and 19litre kegs.
> 
> In weals photo it looks like the centre rod is threaded, is this so it screws into place?
> 
> What purpose does the little cardboard tube serve in the pictures with the glycol chiller?



The purpose of the little cardboard tube was purely to see who would come out of the woodwork? Yes its still 35 litre until the 60 litre arrives in a few weeks time. The centre rod is not threaded as it has to slide smoothly and quickly. The T bar gives control. The valve works even when the rod is at an angle. Also the valve is super easy to clean.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

CEO Keg King said:


> The purpose of the little cardboard tube was purely to see who would come out of the woodwork?.


?


----------



## CKK

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> ?


We have to leave something for people to have a go at ……..


----------



## RobB

I can see some benefits with the plunger valve but it introduces a potential leak pathway through the lid. What's the sealing mechanism? Is it simply a nice, tight fit with a rubber grommet or something more cunning?


----------



## awfulknauful

CEO Keg King said:


> Well look at this then.


Any pricing yet?


----------



## CKK

awfulknauful said:


> Any pricing yet?


$129.50 same as current model. Obviously it’s pressure lid as standard now so we feel it’s a good offer.


----------



## CKK

RobB said:


> I can see some benefits with the plunger valve but it introduces a potential leak pathway through the lid. What's the sealing mechanism? Is it simply a nice, tight fit with a rubber grommet or something more cunning?


It’s a twin O ring setup and holds pressure quite well


----------



## awfulknauful

Any feedback and price for the chiller?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> Any feedback and price for the chiller?


I did ask about this if I remember right it will be around $250


----------



## RobB

CEO Keg King said:


> It’s a twin O ring setup and holds pressure quite well


Now that I think about it, it's probably no more of a leak risk than the handle of the butterfly valve which you no longer have, so the new design is "leak risk neutral" for want of a better term.


----------



## Reg Holt

wide eyed and legless said:


> Caught a glimpse of the new, (I can't call it Fermentasarus) looks like the age of the fermenting dinosaur is over! Out, the space taking butterfly valve, Out, the collection bottle. In tri clover fittings. Looks like the fresh critical key minds of this unit are onto a winner.


Where are the triclover fittings WEAL? I must say is does look the dogs bollocks though.


----------



## S.E

malt and barley blues said:


> Oooh look a Silosaurus! I would like to see any vermin get some purchase on that with it's choppers.
> View attachment 116592


Don’t you believe it. A hungry rat would chew through that in no time. Best keep it in a cupboard or metal bin or something.

I once trapped a rat under a concrete slab by placing a bucket of water over a hole in the slab. Rat escaped by chewing a hole up through the bottom of the bucket and letting out the water.


----------



## CKK

S.E said:


> Don’t you believe it. A hungry rat would chew through that in no time. Best keep it in a cupboard or metal bin or something.
> 
> I once trapped a rat under a concrete slab by placing a bucket of water over a hole in the slab. Rat escaped by chewing a hole up through the bottom of the bucket and letting out the water.


Rats can be quite persistent but so far none has tried or succeeded with the 30 odd units holding malt at our place. I think it would take them a fair while. Not saying though that they might learn how to open the valve though. Could always add a locking mechanism.


----------



## S.E

CEO Keg King said:


> Rats can be quite persistent but so far none has tried or succeeded with the 30 odd units holding malt at our place. I think it would take them a fair while. Not saying though that they might learn how to open the valve though. Could always add a locking mechanism.


Do you have a lot of rats? Unless you are seeing them a lot during the day probably not as many as you think. They usually wouldn’t bother chewing through the PET units if they are getting enough food without having to go to the effort. If it’s just a few they may be getting enough from empty sacks and grain spilt when you are filling the containers. If they are short of food they will chew through PET in no time though. Good for keeping grain dry and looking decorative but don’t depend on them being rodent proof.


I have 10 sacks of grain in the garage at the moment that I can’t fit into my grain cupboard and nothing has touched them. I don’t think the sacks are rat proof but what I do is leave a handful of grain in and around a couple of unset rat traps near to the sacks. If I see the grain has been eaten I set the traps and next day catch any unlucky rats that had thought the traps were safe after feasting on and around them the night before.


----------



## FatDrew

Only in the world of homebrew does a CEO take a few moments to comment on his personal approach to rodent management at home. I bet Alan Joyce wouldn’t have the time nor the inclination


----------



## S.E

FatDrew said:


> Only in the world of homebrew does a CEO take a few moments to comment on his personal approach to rodent management at home. I bet Alan Joyce wouldn’t have the time nor the inclination


I assumed he was talking about rats in the KK warehouse. Didn’t occur to me he would have 30 odd units of grain at home. Mind you I have over 12 sacks at home but 5 aren’t mine.


----------



## Truman42

S.E said:


> I assumed he was talking about rats in the KK warehouse. Didn’t occur to me he would have 30 odd units of grain at home. Mind you I have over 12 sacks at home but 5 aren’t mine.


He is talking about the KK warehouse, where they do have around 30 of these units holding grain.


----------



## malt and barley blues

FatDrew said:


> Only in the world of homebrew does a CEO take a few moments to comment on his personal approach to rodent management at home. I bet Alan Joyce wouldn’t have the time nor the inclination


I doubt they get many rats on Dreamliners, on the other hand Barnaby Joyce could probably give a bit of advice on rats around the silo's.


----------



## CKK

S.E said:


> Do you have a lot of rats? Unless you are seeing them a lot during the day probably not as many as you think. They usually wouldn’t bother chewing through the PET units if they are getting enough food without having to go to the effort. If it’s just a few they may be getting enough from empty sacks and grain spilt when you are filling the containers. If they are short of food they will chew through PET in no time though. Good for keeping grain dry and looking decorative but don’t depend on them being rodent proof.
> 
> 
> I have 10 sacks of grain in the garage at the moment that I can’t fit into my grain cupboard and nothing has touched them. I don’t think the sacks are rat proof but what I do is leave a handful of grain in and around a couple of unset rat traps near to the sacks. If I see the grain has been eaten I set the traps and next day catch any unlucky rats that had thought the traps were safe after feasting on and around them the night before.


Fortunately not. They were a real problem in the old place that we moved out of in August and it was one of the reasons we were so glad to get out of that old warehouse. We managed to control them but it was a daily battle. Our new head office seals really well by the look of it and we have not yet sighted any. That does not mean we are not vigilant though. Our new grain storage facility and the customer malt room is about to start construction and they are rat proof by design. The malt room will have at least 100 malts in our new 60 litre PET dispensers and I think it will delight home brewers with its choice and looks. It will also double as a function room so that 40-50 people can have a brewers get together and be surrounded by an appropriate backdrop. I think it will be a great place for our customers.

The PET no doubt would eventually succumb to a sustained gnawing from a rodent but even in the old building they never touched it. Its really smooth and hard to get purchase on. We still think it will be a great way for brewers to store their malts especially if they have space to make a nice feature of it.


----------



## CKK

FatDrew said:


> Only in the world of homebrew does a CEO take a few moments to comment on his personal approach to rodent management at home. I bet Alan Joyce wouldn’t have the time nor the inclination


Well unlike the individual you mention I do get involved in every aspect where I think our team can do better and I love to focus on what can help homebrewers to save effort. I also don‘t get paid what he does. In fact I don‘t get paid at all and I do this because I enjoy guiding a great bunch of people to build a good business under some rather tough circumstances forced on us. Two years ago we were in a very hard place with little on offer. Now we can look at a well stocked modern warehouse, an overflow warehouse, an expanding product range, a new professional dispensing department, a factory turning out high quality PET unitanks and kegs as well as an engineering team that has plenty of brewing skills to guide them as to what to come up with next to help home brewers. So yes I am happy to get my hands dirty to fix a malt mill, keep the rodents at bay, guide our development team and be involved in whatever comes along that can be done better so our customers can have the best experience. No matter what the CEO of Qantas earns I would not wish to be him and he will never have the chance to connect with a customer community like ours and which is something that keeps me going and smiling.


----------



## CKK

malt and barley blues said:


> I doubt they get many rats on Dreamliners, on the other hand Barnaby Joyce could probably give a bit of advice on rats around the silo's.


As a pilot for nearly thirty years I can tell you that they do get rats, snakes and all sorts of creatures hitching rides on aircraft and they can be quite a problem if undetected. For some reason rats love to chew wiring so they are not desirable passengers. As to Barnaby‘s ability to give rat advice I can only speculate.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Called in today to get some grain and bits and pieces, the Fermenter King was doing it's stuff the little 12 volt cooler is impressive, holds temperature and the FK building up pressure nicely.


Ambient and thermowell temperature.


----------



## CKK

wide eyed and legless said:


> Called in today to get some grain and bits and pieces, the Fermenter King was doing it's stuff the little 12 volt cooler is impressive, holds temperature and the FK building up pressure nicely.
> View attachment 116757
> Ambient and thermowell temperature.
> 
> Keeping temp at 10 degrees C (bottom curve) and ambient as per top curve.
> 
> View attachment 116756


----------



## Meddo

@CEO Keg King, do you have any plans to release a high-temp body for these?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> @CEO Keg King, do you have any plans to release a high-temp body for these?


No affiliation but the question I would be asking is how many times can hot fill PET be put under heat? I have searched for an answer but can't find any. Just my own curiosity, as I have the snubbies, I can't give a good rinse with hot water, though I do add sodium perborate for around a 30 C wash and wonder if it is enough to prep the snubby for a acid wash. So far not had any infections but still curious to know about the effect of repeated heat washing process on PET.


----------



## Meddo

Well my view is that if any manufacturer does sell such a high temp body then surely it would perform or otherwise be subject to warranty claims. I'm not a chemical engineer or whatever the relevant discipline is so I'm not going to predict whether it's going to happen or not, just ask the question.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> Well my view is that if any manufacturer does sell such a high temp body then surely it would perform or otherwise be subject to warranty claims. I'm not a chemical engineer or whatever the relevant discipline is so I'm not going to predict whether it's going to happen or not, just ask the question.


You are right its no good speculating, but when asked by KL the majority of the punters wanted a hot wash version even though it would cost more. So maybe the performance of hot fill PET isn't an option, what scarce information I have found on line is that repeated hot use causes the PET to bloom.


----------



## chesl73

Do you have dimensions for the new fermenter?
The stand looks very high making it difficult to fit into my fridge. You think it could be sold with the shorter stub nose stand?


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> Called in today to get some grain and bits and pieces, the Fermenter King was doing it's stuff the little 12 volt cooler is impressive, holds temperature and the FK building up pressure nicely.
> View attachment 116757
> Ambient and thermowell temperature.
> View attachment 116756


How do these work exactly? Peltier?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

chesl73 said:


> Do you have dimensions for the new fermenter?
> The stand looks very high making it difficult to fit into my fridge. You think it could be sold with the shorter stub nose stand?


Same size as a traditional fermentasaurus, stands for the snubby and fermentasaurus are the same.



Truman42 said:


> How do these work exactly? Peltier?


Its an enhanced Peltier.


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> Same size as a traditional fermentasaurus, stands for the snubby and fermentasaurus are the same.
> 
> 
> Its an enhanced Peltier.


Are there any specs on what size fermenter/s they can comfortably keep at lager fermentation temps and cold crashing etc in a hot garage in summer??


----------



## CKK

Truman42 said:


> Are there any specs on what size fermenter/s they can comfortably keep at lager fermentation temps and cold crashing etc in a hot garage in summer??


The unit will give you approximately a 20-21 degree differential so if your garage is at 35 then expect around 15. Also depends if you are using the new jackets.


----------



## f00b4r

Any idea on the upgrade kit price for making a Fermentasaurus into the new version? Your Australian price is fine as it usually translates to about 1:1 in GBP - us Europeans get very jealous when we see your prices there but it does have to travel quite far!


----------



## CKK

f00b4r said:


> Any idea on the upgrade kit price for making a Fermentasaurus into the new version? Your Australian price is fine as it usually translates to about 1:1 in GBP - us Europeans get very jealous when we see your prices there but it does have to travel quite far!


Expect around AUD$50 and I will try to make sure customers in Europe will not pay much more than that. So should be around 35GBP


----------



## Ballaratguy

wide eyed and legless said:


> Called in today to get some grain and bits and pieces, the Fermenter King was doing it's stuff the little 12 volt cooler is impressive, holds temperature and the FK building up pressure nicely.
> View attachment 116757
> Ambient and thermowell temperature.
> View attachment 116756


Ok I give up! What exactly is the Fermenter King?
I’ve been looking for an economical way to provide both heating and cooling for fermenters free standing on a bench top.


----------



## CKK

Ballaratguy said:


> Ok I give up! What exactly is the Fermenter King?
> I’ve been looking for an economical way to provide both heating and cooling for fermenters free standing on a bench top.


So we got sick of all the reptilian connotations and decided to rename the Gen 3 Fermenters as the G3 Fermenter King and for the 60 litre unit its the G3 Fermenter King Max. Both can be heated and called with the new Thermentor King (Jacket recommended).


----------



## snails07

What will be the price of the "Thermentor King" and when would it be available?
Also, what price for the Gen 3 and when would it likely be available?

Cheers


----------



## CKK

snails07 said:


> What will be the price of the "Thermentor King" and when would it be available?
> Also, what price for the Gen 3 and when would it likely be available?
> 
> Cheers


The Thermentor King is expected to be around the $250 mark (depends a bit on where our exchange rate ends up) and we are hopeful for production qty around the end of November/early December. We have a small quantity going out for testing now in Australia and Europe as we are keen for the reports from brewers other than our own. The G3 Fermenter King will be $129 and of course it is pressure capable out of the box. That makes it a very attractive proposition. For those who already have a Fermentasaurus there will be an upgrade kit available which we are hopeful will sell between $50-60 and make the existing tank into a Gen 3. So you can upgrade it for little more than the old pressure kit.


----------



## Ballaratguy

CEO Keg King said:


> The Thermentor King is expected to be around the $250 mark (depends a bit on where our exchange rate ends up) and we are hopeful for production qty around the end of November/early December. We have a small quantity going out for testing now in Australia and Europe as we are keen for the reports from brewers other than our own. The G3 Fermenter King will be $129 and of course it is pressure capable out of the box. That makes it a very attractive proposition. For those who already have a Fermentasaurus there will be an upgrade kit available which we are hopeful will sell between $50-60 and make the existing tank into a Gen 3. So you can upgrade it for little more than the old pressure kit.


Ok so what exactly is the the thermometer king?
What is in the upgrade kit?
Sorry if these questions may have been discussed in earlier posts


----------



## devoutharpist

Does anyone else's pressure kit tube get real stinky? Done two brews in the snubnose so far and the tube is stained to hell and smells like beer no matter how much i clean it.


----------



## Moog

yea, I got some more off e-bay, larger diameter, to make it easier to fit on the float, but that dis-colours just as quick.
maybe you need to use medical grade silicone.
I even got some bottle brushes, but they don't shift the stain either.


----------



## Truman42

I was at Keg king today and saw the new PET Kegs. They were around 20 litres and good for 15 litre batches to keg, pressurise and serve direct from these kegs. What are they called though as I can't remember? Im looking forwarding to getting one when they come out.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> I was at Keg king today and saw the new PET Kegs. They were around 20 litres and good for 15 litre batches to keg, pressurise and serve direct from these kegs. What are they called though as I can't remember? Im looking forwarding to getting one when they come out.


Steady on there cobber, you could get accused of working for Keg King.


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> Steady on there cobber, you could get accused of working for Keg King.


Hahah... They dont have any vacancies...lol.

Do you know what they are called? I forgot to take a photo.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The actual keg is called the King Keg, set up as you saw it could be called something else, I will be getting one, I think it looks neat, but for me only for serving, it does give an actual insight to the working on the inside of a keg.


----------



## Keg King

wide eyed and legless said:


> The actual keg is called the King Keg, set up as you saw it could be called something else, I will be getting one, I think it looks neat, but for me only for serving, it does give an actual insight to the working on the inside of a keg.


The 20L King Keg set up as a fermenter with floating dip tube and ball lock posts is called Fermenter King Junior, or just Junior for short. It's made from the same material as our 35L tanks and is actually stronger due to its size and shape. Currently we have a Hefe in one on display in the retail outlet.


----------



## Truman42

Keg King said:


> The 20L King Keg set up as a fermenter with floating dip tube and ball lock posts is called Fermenter King Junior, or just Junior for short. It's made from the same material as our 35L tanks and is actually stronger due to its size and shape. Currently we have a Hefe in one on display in the retail outlet.


I only saw the empty one next to the register. Looked ideal for smaller batches which is what Ive been after for awhile now. I want to try and brew a Neipa in it and reduce exposure to Co2. When do you think they will be out?


----------



## Truman42

Keg King said:


> The 20L King Keg set up as a fermenter with floating dip tube and ball lock posts is called Fermenter King Junior, or just Junior for short. It's made from the same material as our 35L tanks and is actually stronger due to its size and shape. Currently we have a Hefe in one on display in the retail outlet.


Its ok, Ive just found a thread on it.


----------



## sp0rk

When will the new fermentasaurus be available via the website?
I need to do some brews for xmas and need a new fermenter, preferably pressurisable
I've been tossing up just making a kegmentor, but if they'll be online in the next week or so I'll just wait


----------



## devoutharpist

To sample or not to sample...

So i've got a beer in my snubby that is most likely at FG now, but i am hesitant to take a sample due to a very large dryhop (dry hopped early so was mid-fermentation). The floating dip tube appears to be sitting amongst a whole bunch of spend hop garbage, and i feel if i try and draw a sample before i cold crash i could end up with a blockage... or at least some gunk sitting in there and hardening up until i do my final transfer?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have found the best method of dry hopping is in a bag, doesn't help you with your current dilemma, but something to keep in mind.
I stick it into secondary run the venting co2 through until the final day or two before transfering.


----------



## CKK

sp0rk said:


> When will the new fermentasaurus be available via the website?
> I need to do some brews for xmas and need a new fermenter, preferably pressurisable
> I've been tossing up just making a kegmentor, but if they'll be online in the next week or so I'll just wait


Hoping that we have them out before the end of the month.


----------



## devoutharpist

devoutharpist said:


> To sample or not to sample...
> 
> So i've got a beer in my snubby that is most likely at FG now, but i am hesitant to take a sample due to a very large dryhop (dry hopped early so was mid-fermentation). The floating dip tube appears to be sitting amongst a whole bunch of spend hop garbage, and i feel if i try and draw a sample before i cold crash i could end up with a blockage... or at least some gunk sitting in there and hardening up until i do my final transfer?



So i did get a blockage about halfway through my closed transfer. Ended up turning up the CO2 and pushing the gas into the fermenter liquid post, pushed out whatever was in there and it was fine after. In other news 1318 floccs like a beast and took i'd say about 99.5% of the hops with it


----------



## f00b4r

CEO Keg King said:


> Hoping that we have them out before the end of the month.



Any idea on a timeline for EU stock for the upgrade kits?


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> Hoping that we have them out before the end of the month.


Do you have an updated ETA for these?


----------



## Meddo

Meddo said:


> Do you have an updated ETA for these?


Bump please @CEO Keg King?


----------



## Truman42

So if your going to pressure ferment in the fermentaurus or fermenter king junior and serve direct from the vessel are you guys dry hopping in a bag and pulling it out later or just throwing them in naked and letting them settle out when you chill the beer? Im worried about them causing grassy flavours by being left in there too long.

Or should we be transferring to another keg when doing a dry hopped beer?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

What I will be doing is dry hop in secondary cold crash transfer to keg or have a look at this.
http://scottjanish.com/my-favorite-way-to-dry-hop-loose-in-primary-and-kegs/


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> What I will be doing is dry hop in secondary cold crash transfer to keg or have a look at this.
> http://scottjanish.com/my-favorite-way-to-dry-hop-loose-in-primary-and-kegs/


I just brought a fermenter king junior and wanted to try pressure fermenting then serving direct from the vessel. But my recipe has a dry hop so I will be dry hopping in the FKJ.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> I just brought a fermenter king junior and wanted to try pressure fermenting then serving direct from the vessel. But my recipe has a dry hop so I will be dry hopping in the FKJ.


So you going to leave the yeast in there as well as the hops?


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> So you going to leave the yeast in there as well as the hops?


Welll,,,Yeah..isnt that the idea of the whole snub nose and FKJ thing? To ferment and serve from the same vessel?


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Truman42 said:


> I just brought a fermenter king junior and wanted to try pressure fermenting then serving direct from the vessel. But my recipe has a dry hop so I will be dry hopping in the FKJ.


I was going to do a ferment in the junior small batch, the then transfer to the Snubby for secondary ferment, cold crash in the Snubby, wash and sanitize the Junior and use it for serving. If I was to dry hop I would put a bag in snubby.


----------



## Truman42

Neil Buttriss said:


> I was going to do a ferment in the junior small batch, the then transfer to the Snubby for secondary ferment, cold crash in the Snubby, wash and sanitize the Junior and use it for serving. If I was to dry hop I would put a bag in snubby.


Do you know where the o rings on the posts are supposed to go in the junior? Top of lid or bottom where the thread is?


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Truman42 said:


> Do you know where the o rings on the posts are supposed to go in the junior? Top of lid or bottom where the thread is?


Nah I am still in the Pilbara, get home next week but the junior is there waiting so I’ll have a look.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> Welll,,,Yeah..isnt that the idea of the whole snub nose and FKJ thing? To ferment and serve from the same vessel?


I think you would be better off with 2 units, the other thing is if you are going to dry hop in the serving vessel then you will have to drink the contents pretty quick if you are worried about grassiness.


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think you would be better off with 2 units, the other thing is if you are going to dry hop in the serving vessel then you will have to drink the contents pretty quick if you are worried about grassiness.


I was thinking that as it will be chilled down to 3C the hop grassiness will take longer to come through. I had someone else confirm this.


----------



## Vic

Truman42 said:


> Do you know where the o rings on the posts are supposed to go in the junior? Top of lid or bottom where the thread is?


O rings won’t seal threads. They need two smooth surfaces to seal. Top of the lid to seal on the smooth surface surface of the post.


----------



## CKK

Vic said:


> O rings won’t seal threads. They need two smooth surfaces to seal. Top of the lid to seal on the smooth surface surface of the post.


That is right. They go on top.


----------



## CKK

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think you would be better off with 2 units, the other thing is if you are going to dry hop in the serving vessel then you will have to drink the contents pretty quick if you are worried about grassiness.


It’s one of the reasons we made them so cheap is that people can afford to buy two. We might look at doing a twin pack with liquid transfer line thrown in.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

So why do you love your Fermentasaurus, me I love to watch the yeasties bounce up and down but most of all I have started collecting yeast, saves me a bit of coin which I only spend on other stuff anyway. This is my latest effort, unwashed from a non dry hopped brew with Imperial A15 Indepenence yeast


----------



## JDB

Anyone


CEO Keg King said:


> So we got sick of all the reptilian connotations and decided to rename the Gen 3 Fermenters as the G3 Fermenter King and for the 60 litre unit its the G3 Fermenter King Max. Both can be heated and called with the new Thermentor King (Jacket recommended).



Trying to find dimensions of the new G3 Fermenter King, in particular total height of the unit in the stand. Need to confirm that it will fit in my fridge before I order one. Cheers


----------



## devoutharpist

Anyone got the specs of the silicone floating dip tube? Just pulled my snubnose out after a couple of months off and i broke the silicone dip tube trying to pull it free of the float


----------



## Grmblz

devoutharpist said:


> Anyone got the specs of the silicone floating dip tube? Just pulled my snubnose out after a couple of months off and i broke the silicone dip tube trying to pull it free of the float


For some odd reason the float tubing supplied by both teams is rubbish, too thin walled and seems to split after a just a couple of months, talk about spoiling the ship for a penny worth of tar. Source some quality silicon off ebay. KL saurus and KK FKJ both have the same tubing and both fail/split. "shakes head"


----------



## devoutharpist

Grmblz said:


> For some odd reason the float tubing supplied by both teams is rubbish, too thin walled and seems to split after a just a couple of months, talk about spoiling the ship for a penny worth of tar. Source some quality silicon off ebay. KL saurus and KK FKJ both have the same tubing and both fail/split. "shakes head"



I better jump on eBay then. What ID/OD tubing did you get?


----------



## Vic

Try the link below. I found 5mmX8mm if using the red caps. 6mm id was too loose on the red caps, OK if using the stainless ones.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1M-Food...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## Elmar

devoutharpist said:


> Anyone got the specs of the silicone floating dip tube? Just pulled my snubnose out after a couple of months off and i broke the silicone dip tube trying to pull it free of the float


The latest float and dip tube from kegland is only $7.95. Diptube is much better than the first one I bought with Fermzilla. And you get the floaty as well. It's been known to fail.


----------



## devoutharpist

Vic said:


> Try the link below. I found 5mmX8mm if using the red caps. 6mm id was too loose on the red caps, OK if using the stainless ones.



Thanks for that, i've got the SS posts so i grabbed the 6mm ID. With any luck it should arrive by my intended brew day


----------



## Meddo

Hey @CEO Keg King, noticed you were in town 

A couple of questions please -

Any ETA on G3 fermenter Kings coming back in stock?
Any more chiller coils on their way for the G3?
Any ETA on the 60L version?
Any plans to redesign the larger tank opening and lid onto the 35L body?
And the curlier one, I've found using the tri clamp adapter on the base of my G3 that it doesn't take much of a knock for the adapter to separate from the cone piece. So much so that I'm actually quite nervous actuating my ball valve to dump yeast. Is there any chance of maybe making the adapter piece out of SS? It just seems that the two plastic threaded sections can deform to jump over each other and seperate pretty easily.

Cheers,


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> Hey @CEO Keg King, noticed you were in town
> 
> A couple of questions please -
> 
> Any ETA on G3 fermenter Kings coming back in stock?
> Any more chiller coils on their way for the G3?
> Any ETA on the 60L version?
> Any plans to redesign the larger tank opening and lid onto the 35L body?
> And the curlier one, I've found using the tri clamp adapter on the base of my G3 that it doesn't take much of a knock for the adapter to separate from the cone piece. So much so that I'm actually quite nervous actuating my ball valve to dump yeast. Is there any chance of maybe making the adapter piece out of SS? It just seems that the two plastic threaded sections can deform to jump over each other and seperate pretty easily.
> 
> Cheers,


Never left town - bloody lockdown...

Gen3 is in stock
Heaps of chiller coils in stock
60 Litre is waiting on more lids to come in. We have a few if you want one. Both snubby and max. Also waiting on the new stands so think next month if we can get shipments moving. The 60 litre tanks are really beautiful and very clear.
Right now no plans to make that piece from SS as it would cost a lot. I can let you have a new adaptor which might just cure that problem.


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> Never left town - bloody lockdown...
> 
> Gen3 is in stock
> Heaps of chiller coils in stock
> 60 Litre is waiting on more lids to come in. We have a few if you want one. Both snubby and max. Also waiting on the new stands so think next month if we can get shipments moving. The 60 litre tanks are really beautiful and very clear.
> Right now no plans to make that piece from SS as it would cost a lot. I can let you have a new adaptor which might just cure that problem.


Ok thanks, the G3 is still showing as out of stock on the website. Apparently I've been looking in the wrong spot for the coil listing though, just went looking again and found it thanks.

Keen to see the 60L version but not ready to commit yet, thanks anyway.

Absolutely keen for a different tri clamp adapter if you've got one please, as I said I'm almost too scared to use the current one.

Cheers


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> Ok thanks, the G3 is still showing as out of stock on the website. Apparently I've been looking in the wrong spot for the coil listing though, just went looking again and found it thanks.
> 
> Keen to see the 60L version but not ready to commit yet, thanks anyway.
> 
> Absolutely keen for a different tri clamp adapter if you've got one please, as I said I'm almost too scared to use the current one.
> 
> Cheers


Should be back on the website shortly. The 60 litres are on display in the store. PM me so how to get a new adaptor to you unless you can come in to the store. Happy if I can help you sort this out.


----------



## Ballaratguy

I purchased the G3 (from a partner supplier) and have found it to be a great piece of kit (I like it better than my Guten stainless steel fermenter)
My problem with it is the fitting at the bottom leaks. I have found that there is a sweet spot when tightening the nut (the big one that pulls the gasket to seal) if I tighten it up just firm it will leak. If I tighten it up hard it slows down the leak to almost a stop
I have tried to tighten it up a little more but couldn’t (arthritic hands) so used a tool to try to nip it up a little extra but the thread seemed to “strip” and let go
Is it possible to purchase those 3 parts that make up the seal for the bottom?


----------



## CKK

Ballaratguy said:


> I purchased the G3 (from a partner supplier) and have found it to be a great piece of kit (I like it better than my Guten stainless steel fermenter)
> My problem with it is the fitting at the bottom leaks. I have found that there is a sweet spot when tightening the nut (the big one that pulls the gasket to seal) if I tighten it up just firm it will leak. If I tighten it up hard it slows down the leak to almost a stop
> I have tried to tighten it up a little more but couldn’t (arthritic hands) so used a tool to try to nip it up a little extra but the thread seemed to “strip” and let go
> Is it possible to purchase those 3 parts that make up the seal for the bottom?


PM me and I will send you replacement free of charge


----------



## Ballaratguy

Awesome. I’ll PM you now


----------



## Trippinonprozac

Any release date for the updated snub nose with CIP an dry hop port?


----------



## CKK

Trippinonprozac said:


> Any release date for the updated snub nose with CIP an dry hop port?


I have a small quantity now but not sure its on the web page because we had to fill large orders to Europe. Can organize you one if you want it though.


----------



## davemac

CEO Keg King said:


> I have a small quantity now but not sure its on the web page because we had to fill large orders to Europe. Can organize you one if you want it though.



Hey mate, just wondering if you might know the state of play for a shipment to NZ - specifically Brewhouse in Wellington.

Cheers


----------



## CKK

davemac said:


> Hey mate, just wondering if you might know the state of play for a shipment to NZ - specifically Brewhouse in Wellington.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks for reminding me about this. I know they were supposed to have an order going so will call Cory there tomorrow to see where its at.


----------



## davemac

CEO Keg King said:


> Thanks for reminding me about this. I know they were supposed to have an order going so will call Cory there tomorrow to see where its at.



Cheers I have 3 FKJs in it and got rid of my previous fermenter in anticipation - no brewing during lockdown - Tragic!


----------



## CKK

davemac said:


> Cheers I have 3 FKJs in it and got rid of my previous fermenter in anticipation - no brewing during lockdown - Tragic!


Not just tragic but a catastrophe. Will burn their ears in Wellington tomorrow


----------



## davemac

CEO Keg King said:


> Not just tragic but a catastrophe. Will burn their ears in Wellington tomorrow


I don't think it's their fault, I think it got held up in Aus as non-essential :-(


----------



## davemac

CEO Keg King said:


> Not just tragic but a catastrophe. Will burn their ears in Wellington tomorrow


And they've been pretty good about onpassing whatever info they can tbh


----------



## CKK

davemac said:


> And they've been pretty good about onpassing whatever info they can tbh


Just a bit of fun talk. Cory is a really nice bloke and I think we are in good hands with him.


----------



## mdav

CEO Keg King said:


> I have a small quantity now but not sure its on the web page because we had to fill large orders to Europe. Can organize you one if you want it though.


What updated snub nose, typical I just bought one, hmmm what's the story with the new one?


----------



## CKK

mdav said:


> What updated snub nose, typical I just bought one, hmmm what's the story with the new one?


The gen 3 version has a new lid with dry hopping port and comes standard with thermowell and barbs for the CIP cleaning kit


----------



## mdav

CEO Keg King said:


> The gen 3 version has a new lid with dry hopping port and comes standard with thermowell and barbs for the CIP cleaning kit


Damn, I just asked about can you get a thermowell for the s I nose just a week ago lol. So looks like I have to go get the new lid, I assume it fits the old snub or is that different too?


----------



## CKK

mdav said:


> Damn, I just asked about can you get a thermowell for the s I nose just a week ago lol. So looks like I have to go get the new lid, I assume it fits the old snub or is that different too?


Yes the new lid will fit what you have.


----------



## davemac

CEO Keg King said:


> Yes the new lid will fit what you have.


Would it fit the FKJ too?

And where is it online for a look - cheers


----------



## rockofclay

Those chiller coils for the gen3, has anyone tried them with a fish tank chiller? Do they fit the Junior too?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

And he didn't mention the war once.








PETcast #2: Keg King, MCH Australia Pty. Ltd.


In our second PETcast we interview CEO Will Fiala. Keg King from Springvale, Melbourne, started the production of PET kegs and vessels for the brewing industry worldwide. Learn more about his developments, production equipment and projects in this PETcast!




www.hbmedia.info


----------



## Trippinonprozac

Why


wide eyed and legless said:


> And he didn't mention the war once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PETcast #2: Keg King, MCH Australia Pty. Ltd.
> 
> 
> In our second PETcast we interview CEO Will Fiala. Keg King from Springvale, Melbourne, started the production of PET kegs and vessels for the brewing industry worldwide. Learn more about his developments, production equipment and projects in this PETcast!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hbmedia.info


Why continue to stir the pot? No one gives a shit about these two companies grovels. We are here to discuss the product/s.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Trippinonprozac said:


> Why
> 
> Why continue to stir the pot? No one gives a shit about these two companies grovels. We are here to discuss the product/s.


What makes you think that the podcast is stirring any pot? Its a pod cast about how and where they are made as a point of interest, or is that to hard for you to grasp?


----------



## Trippinonprozac

wide eyed and legless said:


> What makes you think that the podcast is stirring any pot? Its a pod cast about how and where they are made as a point of interest, or is that to hard for you to grasp?


I didn’t make myself clear. You’re storing the pot


----------



## fdsaasdf

Trippinonprozac said:


> I didn’t make myself clear. You’re storing the pot


Can't see what was posted but FWIW you can just click on a member's name and select the ignore button on their profile. Do this on a few select trolls and the signal to noise ratio of this place goes through the roof.


----------



## Reg Holt

Trippinonprozac said:


> I didn’t make myself clear. You’re storing the pot


I thought the post was about products, Sure your not smoking pot


----------



## Cian Doyle

Interesting, would be good to see the machine in action.


----------



## BKBrews

When do you expect the G3 to be back in stock?

Also, when you read on the website about the 2 inch tri-clover adaptor, it says that "heavy 2 inch" tri-clover parts could damage the adaptor and/or the fermenter. How heavy are we talking? If I put a stainless 2 inch elbow and butterfly valve from an SS brewtech conical on the bottom, would it damage the fermenter?


----------



## Keg King

BKBrews said:


> When do you expect the G3 to be back in stock?
> 
> Also, when you read on the website about the 2 inch tri-clover adaptor, it says that "heavy 2 inch" tri-clover parts could damage the adaptor and/or the fermenter. How heavy are we talking? If I put a stainless 2 inch elbow and butterfly valve from an SS brewtech conical on the bottom, would it damage the fermenter?



G3 should be back in stock soon. It's just a matter of producing one tank stock over another at the moment. 

With the 2inch tri-clover adaptor, you just don't want to be suspending over 2 kilos off the adaptor. The set up you're describing should be fine. There are some heavy three piece ball valves out there.


----------



## CKK

BKBrews said:


> When do you expect the G3 to be back in stock?
> 
> Also, when you read on the website about the 2 inch tri-clover adaptor, it says that "heavy 2 inch" tri-clover parts could damage the adaptor and/or the fermenter. How heavy are we talking? If I put a stainless 2 inch elbow and butterfly valve from an SS brewtech conical on the bottom, would it damage the fermenter?


It’s in stock now and you should be ok to attach those bits.


----------



## BKBrews

CEO Keg King said:


> It’s in stock now and you should be ok to attach those bits.



Website says "view out of stock item".....


----------



## CKK

BKBrews said:


> Website says "view out of stock item".....


Just kicked some backsides to see if they can update the website - trust me - I have hundreds to sell you


----------



## clickeral

CEO Keg King said:


> Just kicked some backsides to see if they can update the website - trust me - I have hundreds to sell you


G3 Snubnose in stock? cant find it on your website, should probably pop in store before I move out west though (need to write a list of what I need )


----------



## CKK

clickeral said:


> G3 Snubnose in stock? cant find it on your website, should probably pop in store before I move out west though (need to write a list of what I need )


Just checked it right now and its definitely in stock on what I can see here. No shortage of those guys at all.


----------



## clickeral

CEO Keg King said:


> Just checked it right now and its definitely in stock on what I can see here. No shortage of those guys at all.


Will come have a look tomorrow morning


----------



## CKK

clickeral said:


> Will come have a look tomorrow morning


Great - ask for me and I can show you what good things are coming next month.


----------



## Ballaratguy

I have the G3 (awesome piece of kit) and have trouble with the seal on the bottom.
I was thinking that a bsp male thread moulded into the bottom (still with the ability to use the plug/thermowell) and you could then attach any amount of goodies to the bottom For yeast / hop collection. You could also use it for hop injection
I’m being selfish here just thinking of being able to make it leak proof (for my arthritic hands) and also would make cleaning a lot easier


----------



## clickeral

CEO Keg King said:


> Great - ask for me and I can show you what good things are coming next month.



Completely missed this but think we spoke anyway, picked up 2 Snub-noses on Saturday, G3 isn't out yet as your waiting on the new Thermowells early Aug

Will buy the upgrade kits once they arrive, for now will just continue with tape and insulation on the side 

Keen to try them out in a few weeks time when I move out West and have my Brewery set back up

Height is perfect to fit 2 into tall Fridge (no freezer)


----------



## malt and barley blues

Seen at Keg King today, a Senior Junior perhaps? Looks like a new addition from the critical key minds of KK'S engineering team.





Looks to be about a 30 litre jobbie.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Nice! How big is the opening on the lid on that one?


----------



## malt and barley blues

mynameisrodney said:


> Nice! How big is the opening on the lid on that one?


Big enough, looks like the same size as the other fermenters.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

malt and barley blues said:


> Big enough, looks like the same size as the other fermenters.


I don't suppose you got a price?


----------



## Reg Holt

Just looking at that 30 litre that could fit in my fridge along with my Junior. Ideal for fermenting 42 litre batches.


----------



## malt and barley blues

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't suppose you got a price?


No haven't got a price as yet, being released next month.


----------



## CKK

malt and barley blues said:


> No haven't got a price as yet, being released next month.


We are thing around $68 -$70 retail at this time.


----------



## malt and barley blues

CEO Keg King said:


> We are thing around $68 -$70 retail at this time.


They are safe at 20 PSI, I don't want to lose an eye or anything.


----------



## clickeral

malt and barley blues said:


> Seen at Keg King today, a Senior Junior perhaps? Looks like a new addition from the critical key minds of KK'S engineering team.
> View attachment 118613
> 
> Looks to be about a 30 litre jobbie.


If these are shorter then the current snub nose and have a thermowell ill get two, can use my current ones for other uses that don't require temp control (trying to fit two into my fridge)


----------



## mynameisrodney

Its a bit hard to tell without a lid + posts on the FKJ in that pic, but they look to be a similar height, which would make it about 70mm shorter than the snubnose.


----------



## clickeral

mynameisrodney said:


> Its a bit hard to tell without a lid + posts on the FKJ in that pic, but they look to be a similar height, which would make it about 70mm shorter than the snubnose.


70mm would potentially make a difference, need to get a measuring tape out


----------



## mynameisrodney

Any updates on this @CEO Keg King ? Would be good to know dimensions and when it's likely to be available.


----------



## mynameisrodney

@CEO Keg King any updates? There are surely others interested in this product. Don't see the need to do this via Pm.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> @CEO Keg King any updates? There are surely others interested in this product. Don't see the need to do this via Pm.


650 mm to the top of the post's


----------



## mynameisrodney

Cool, do you know diameter? I'd be interested to know if I can fit 2 in my fermentation fridge. 

Also do you know when they will be available?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> Cool, do you know diameter? I'd be interested to know if I can fit 2 in my fermentation fridge.
> 
> Also do you know when they will be available?


It was about 300 mm, no idea when they will be available, this lock down in Victoria is playing havoc. I wouldn't imagine they would be to far away.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I see that these Chubbys are now released, but they don't have a handle. Is this something you need to buy separately?


----------



## CKK

mynameisrodney said:


> I see that these Chubbys are now released, but they don't have a handle. Is this something you need to buy separately?


The handle will be available separately initially but we might change that down the track if most people would like to have it.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Just had a look at the Chubby video (here) it does look like a handle on the Chubby would be handy (pardon the pun). 

Without a handle it looks like moving it around full would require a big old bear hug to lift it. Not impossible, or even hard, just going to be easier with a handle I reckon.

(mind you I have been known to hug my fermenters on occasions)


----------



## CKK

GrumpyPaul said:


> Just had a look at the Chubby video (here) it does look like a handle on the Chubby would be handy (pardon the pun).
> 
> Without a handle it looks like moving it around full would require a big old bear hug to lift it. Not impossible, or even hard, just going to be easier with a handle I reckon.
> 
> (mind you I have been known to hug my fermenters on occasions)


Well it is a bit of weight so we are definitely looking at offering the handle as part of the kit down the track a bit.


----------



## Dilligaf

CEO Keg King said:


> Well it is a bit of weight so we are definitely looking at offering the handle as part of the kit down the track a bit.


Good idea - the handle on the bigger 60l units is really....... handy


----------



## CKK

Dilligaf said:


> Good idea - the handle on the bigger 60l units is really....... handy


Good to know. When it was first being designed I was a bit sceptical but having used it myself I concur. It also shows how incredibly strong our PET is and all our future designs will have the molded handles made in this way. We do pride ourselves in having the toughest PET pressure vessels in the world.


----------



## Keg King

It is time to show people how the lid on the 60 and 30 litre Fermenter Kings looks and works. For the Snubnose versions the centre tower is used to attach the internal thermowell. For the yeast collection version this retains the valve operation tube/Thermowell. In addition it’s a standard thread which can be used with our cleaning kit by screwing on our CIP spray ball underneath.

All in all this is a really versatile item and it is made from polypropylene which is food safe. Supplied with the right O-ring it also works on Fermzilla vessels and can replace the glass reinforced plastic used on those vessels for those who prefer not to have glass reinforced plastic touch their beer and to enjoy the extra functionality.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Keg King said:


> It is time to show people how the lid on the 60 and 30 litre Fermenter Kings looks and works. For the Snubnose versions the centre tower is used to attach the internal thermowell. For the yeast collection version this retains the valve operation tube/Thermowell. In addition it’s a standard thread which can be used with our cleaning kit by screwing on our CIP spray ball underneath.
> 
> All in all this is a really versatile item and it is made from polypropylene which is food safe. Supplied with the right O-ring it also works on Fermzilla vessels and can replace the glass reinforced plastic used on those vessels for those who prefer not to have glass reinforced plastic touch their beer and to enjoy the extra functionality.


Anything new in the pipe line?


----------



## Cian Doyle

Any chance of some more information about the Apollo as in this image posted by WEAL in the 
Brewloon thread.


----------



## Keg King

Cian Doyle said:


> Any chance of some more information about the Apollo as in this image posted by WEAL in the
> Brewloon thread.
> View attachment 119586


Sure - let me get some pics and details organised to post up here shortly.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Have got the Apollo, was one of the prototype, handles are part of the body, cut down one of my old snub nose stands and fitted a tap, don't pressure ferment so not needed.
Overall height on the stand 575mm, they would normally come with a collection bottle so some extra height there. I like the improved design of the lid, not only the larger size but sealing with an O ring, those flat gaskets seem/do stretch over time.
Will get some PVC end covers for the legs.


----------



## Grmblz

I may have missed it but are the chubbies going to be produced with handles? And the gen 3 lids?
I personally find the stainless stands on the conicals a pain, both to use and to store, if yeast harvesting isn't a primary goal I question the value of the design.
A chubby with the gen 3 lid, moulded handles, and a base shaped so that it could stack on other chubbies would be almost perfect imho.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well I did a brew today, ESB and used SO4 but I have got some Blue stone liquid yeast and will be top cropping that. The top is certainly big enough. Even if it wasn't it is easy enough to collect yeast from the cone. I did it in my Snub Nose enough times.
Biggest problem I found is, it is a fair walk to my fermenting room from the brewing area, carrying 21 litres of wort by plastic handles was a bit daunting, even though I know the 60 litre has the same handles.


----------



## Grmblz

I've been using the fkj's and really like the fact there isn't a separate stand, and the handles make it a breeze to move around.
I can't fathom why they would produce the 30L chubby without handles, also they have seen the need for the gen 3 lid which looks great but then go and produce a new product (the chubby) with the old style lid?


----------



## Ian Mackenzie

Grmblz said:


> I've been using the fkj's and really like the fact there isn't a separate stand, and the handles make it a breeze to move around.
> I can't fathom why they would produce the 30L chubby without handles, also they have seen the need for the gen 3 lid which looks great but then go and produce a new product (the chubby) with the old style lid?


I Agree with you Grmblz. I am using the fkj's for kegs at the moment, not enough head space for some of my brews and have purchased a Chubby. I BIAB and gravity feed from my urn to the chubby on the floor then find it heavy and awkward to lift the Cubby back to the bench. I also agree that the gen 3 lid would have been handy rather than have to stick the thermo onto the outside of the of the Chubby.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> I've been using the fkj's and really like the fact there isn't a separate stand, and the handles make it a breeze to move around.
> I can't fathom why they would produce the 30L chubby without handles, also they have seen the need for the gen 3 lid which looks great but then go and produce a new product (the chubby) with the old style lid?


Maybe it requires extra tooling or just different pre forms. I have seen some fancy work done with parra cord, I might have a go at making something.


----------



## Meddo

What's the volume of that Apollo @wide eyed and legless? Is the volume sticker on the side matched to the vessel - ie correctly indicating 30-31L?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

30 litre, plus head space.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

My original FS is still going strong 8 months past its 'used by date'.
Thinking about upgrading though.


----------



## kadmium

Fro-Daddy said:


> My original FS is still going strong 8 months past its 'used by date'.
> Thinking about upgrading though.


Turn it into a granary and get a gen 3 with the thermowell. I love the thermowell. Made picking up clear beer a ******* simple process. Legit very happy with it.


----------



## Meddo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Have got the Apollo, was one of the prototype, handles are part of the body, cut down one of my old snub nose stands and fitted a tap, don't pressure ferment so not needed.
> Overall height on the stand 575mm, they would normally come with a collection bottle so some extra height there. I like the improved design of the lid, not only the larger size but sealing with an O ring, those flat gaskets seem/do stretch over time.
> Will get some PVC end covers for the legs.
> 
> View attachment 119632


@wide eyed and legless @CEO Keg King @Keg King are these "Apollo" forms going to be released in "Fermenter King" versions with bottom valves? ETA if so, for both FK and Snub versions? Is the lid the same size/form as the current 60L Fermenter King?

I'm pretty keen on both snub and FK versions of these, the height and small lid on the 35L FK and snub has been my only real issue with that model.

Cheers,


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> @wide eyed and legless @CEO Keg King @Keg King are these "Apollo" forms going to be released in "Fermenter King" versions with bottom valves? ETA if so, for both FK and Snub versions? Is the lid the same size/form as the current 60L Fermenter King?
> 
> I'm pretty keen on both snub and FK versions of these, the height and small lid on the 35L FK and snub has been my only real issue with that model.
> 
> Cheers,


As far as I know the snubbies are being phased out in favour of the Apollo, could have got me wires crossed and the snubbies could still be around with the bigger opening. They all will have the bottom valve as the 60 litre. Makes sense not having a 35 litre if that is going to be the case, I would say a lot of brewers would make 23 and 21 litre batches which makes the Apollo ideal.
I recently made 36 litres of Ordinary Bitter had to be split between two snubbies.



wide eyed and legless said:


> Maybe it requires extra tooling or just different pre forms. I have seen some fancy work done with para cord, I might have a go at making something.


Made up a carrying handle with para cord, not enough room to do the fancy loops and knots, so I crimped in two loops works OK, I was worried about those 4 thin lugs not being able to take the weight but the did.


----------



## Grmblz

Mate, it's potentially 35kg (wort being heavier than water) it needs handles, either part of the mould or a stainless clamp on thing similar to the glass fermenter things, in all honesty bits of rope wrapped around the neck is a ghetto fix, no offence but who did the R&D on this? 
Make it with the bigger lid (better seal, thermowell/tethered dip tube) and some way of moving it around, I'm over the separate stainless stands and would happily buy 3 or 4 of these things to replace my conical fermenters, but not if I can't move them in and out of my fermenter fridge. 
I think it's a fair call so say a good percentage of HBer's are past their physical prime, and whilst I can see a strapping 25yr old bear hugging this thing around, it would be beyond my abilities, I can move my firkins around (roll then heave) and that's 40L, plus about 10kg keg weight, but they are roll able and have hand holds, so it's not just a weight issue, more a design one, it's almost as if these things have been designed as a one way keg (minimal production cost) but are now being marketed as a fermenter.
I support made in Australia (especially now China has shown its true colours) and have yet to hear of a KK PET vessel exploding, but it needs to be practical not just indestructible. 
Chubby 30L, gen 3 lid, handles. Sign me up for four.


----------



## Meddo

Grmblz said:


> _Snip_
> ...holds, so it's not just a weight issue, more a design one, *it's almost as if these things have been designed as a one way keg (minimal production cost) but are now being marketed as a fermenter.*
> I support ...
> _Snip_


This is exactly where it's come from isn't it?


----------



## kadmium

Grmblz said:


> Mate, it's potentially 35kg (wort being heavier than water) it needs handles, either part of the mould or a stainless clamp on thing similar to the glass fermenter things, in all honesty bits of rope wrapped around the neck is a ghetto fix, no offence but who did the R&D on this?
> Make it with the bigger lid (better seal, thermowell/tethered dip tube) and some way of moving it around, I'm over the separate stainless stands and would happily buy 3 or 4 of these things to replace my conical fermenters, but not if I can't move them in and out of my fermenter fridge.
> I think it's a fair call so say a good percentage of HBer's are past their physical prime, and whilst I can see a strapping 25yr old bear hugging this thing around, it would be beyond my abilities, I can move my firkins around (roll then heave) and that's 40L, plus about 10kg keg weight, but they are roll able and have hand holds, so it's not just a weight issue, more a design one, it's almost as if these things have been designed as a one way keg (minimal production cost) but are now being marketed as a fermenter.
> I support made in Australia (especially now China has shown its true colours) and have yet to hear of a KK PET vessel exploding, but it needs to be practical not just indestructible.
> Chubby 30L, gen 3 lid, handles. Sign me up for four.


I honestly don't know why they changed or are getting rid of the Snubby. 35L, cone shaped, with the Gen 3 lid its ******* mint. Thermowell right to the bottom gives tethered dip tube, good temp probe spot. The design of the gen 3 lid means gasket is on the sides and part of the lid.

In all honestly the 'Apollo' should stay as a keg. The snub-nosed fermenter is great.


----------



## Grmblz

Meddo said:


> This is exactly where it's come from isn't it?


No idea mate, just looked at it and used my sometimes questionable logic.

@kadmium Yeh but it's still got that ******* stainless stand, MORE! storage space, no way stackable, and not the easiest of things to move around, I suppose it depends on your setup, and the amount of gear you have, I've got half a dozen fermenters, 17 kegs (of various types) and I'm sick of moving stuff around to "make space" I'm in the process of a spring clean, gone the fermenters, gone the kegs, except my two firkins and three 23L cornies, stackable is what I'm looking for, and the whole stainless stand conical thing is fine if you have one, maybe two, but any more than that, and they're just start taking up valuable floor/shelf space. 
The 30L chubby COULD be the answer to my prayers, just not as it is currently.


----------



## kadmium

Grmblz said:


> No idea mate, just looked at it and used my sometimes questionable logic.
> 
> @kadmium Yeh but it's still got that ******* stainless stand, MORE! storage space, no way stackable, and not the easiest of things to move around, I suppose it depends on your setup, and the amount of gear you have, I've got half a dozen fermenters, 17 kegs (of various types) and I'm sick of moving stuff around to "make space" I'm in the process of a spring clean, gone the fermenters, gone the kegs, except my two firkins and three 23L cornies, stackable is what I'm looking for, and the whole stainless stand conical thing is fine if you have one, maybe two, but any more than that, and they're just start taking up valuable floor/shelf space.
> The 30L chubby COULD be the answer to my prayers, just not as it is currently.


Yeah that makes total sense. Only 1 fermenter for me so that makes sense what you're saying.


----------



## Keg King

Meddo said:


> @wide eyed and legless @CEO Keg King @Keg King are these "Apollo" forms going to be released in "Fermenter King" versions with bottom valves? ETA if so, for both FK and Snub versions? Is the lid the same size/form as the current 60L Fermenter King?
> 
> I'm pretty keen on both snub and FK versions of these, the height and small lid on the 35L FK and snub has been my only real issue with that model.
> 
> Cheers,


Yes they will be the same as for the 60 litre with only difference being volume.


----------



## Meddo

Keg King said:


> Yes they will be the same as for the 60 litre with only difference being volume.


Thanks, any rough ETA for the smaller ones - with or without dump valves?

Cheers


----------



## Keg King

Meddo said:


> Thanks, any rough ETA for the smaller ones - with or without dump valves?
> 
> Cheers


Waiting on the boxes to be finished so hopefully next month.


----------



## Meddo

Keg King said:


> Waiting on the boxes to be finished so hopefully next month.


Good stuff, thanks


----------



## Ballaratguy

Grmblz said:


> Mate, it's potentially 35kg (wort being heavier than water) it needs handles, either part of the mould or a stainless clamp on thing similar to the glass fermenter things, in all honesty bits of rope wrapped around the neck is a ghetto fix, no offence but who did the R&D on this?
> Make it with the bigger lid (better seal, thermowell/tethered dip tube) and some way of moving it around, I'm over the separate stainless stands and would happily buy 3 or 4 of these things to replace my conical fermenters, but not if I can't move them in and out of my fermenter fridge.
> I think it's a fair call so say a good percentage of HBer's are past their physical prime, and whilst I can see a strapping 25yr old bear hugging this thing around, it would be beyond my abilities, I can move my firkins around (roll then heave) and that's 40L, plus about 10kg keg weight, but they are roll able and have hand holds, so it's not just a weight issue, more a design one, it's almost as if these things have been designed as a one way keg (minimal production cost) but are now being marketed as a fermenter.
> I support made in Australia (especially now China has shown its true colours) and have yet to hear of a KK PET vessel exploding, but it needs to be practical not just indestructible.
> Chubby 30L, gen 3 lid, handles. Sign me up for four.


Why do you have to lift a full fermenter?
When I transfer my wort out of the (Guten) brewery after cooling I pump it directly from the tap (with helix coil) directly into the fermenter which is either in the fermenting fridge or into the fermenter that I have on the bench
There is no way in hell this old fart is going to try to lift a full fermenter


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> Mate, it's potentially 35kg (wort being heavier than water) it needs handles, either part of the mould or a stainless clamp on thing similar to the glass fermenter things, in all honesty bits of rope wrapped around the neck is a ghetto fix, no offence but who did the R&D on this?


Actually I quite like the rope handles, I can just fold them together and carry it like a shopping bag. I haven't used it as a fermenter as yet but I do have two doors to open to get to the fermenting room. I understand where your coming from regarding space saving and the frames especially having 3 or four in use at the same time.
Maybe they will get a new pre form and die and make it the same as the junior, I don't know.


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## malt and barley blues

There are stainless steel handles coming in for the chubby.


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## Grmblz

Ballaratguy said:


> Why do you have to lift a full fermenter?
> When I transfer my wort out of the (Guten) brewery after cooling I pump it directly from the tap (with helix coil) directly into the fermenter which is either in the fermenting fridge or into the fermenter that I have on the bench
> There is no way in hell this old fart is going to try to lift a full fermenter


#829


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## Grmblz

malt and barley blues said:


> There are stainless steel handles coming in for the chubby.


And the gen 3 lids? It's horses for courses, I just thought out loud what MY ideal fermenter would be, the handle is but one part of the equation (a good one mind you) I've no interest in pumping wort, done my time with 3v systems trying to emulate the big boys, so single vessel/or biab and picking it up and moving it is where I'm at, closed transfer from fermenter to keg no prob, but kettle to fermenter, and fermenter to fridge is gravity and muscle (what little I have left)


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## Grmblz

wide eyed and legless said:


> Maybe they will get a new pre form and die and make it the same as the junior, I don't know.


In a perfect world lol. 
I'm just mystified that a new design lid (and pretty bloody good from what I can make out) is incorporated into the fermenters and yet not available on the re-purposed one way kegs marketed as fermenters, sure it's all about economics, and ROI and people have fermented in re-purposed 50L commercial kegs for years. 
I just think we are entering a new era of HB where HB specific gear (not scaled down commercial) is being brought to market and of course there will be miss steps but I get frustrated by things being half way there.
It's the old chestnut, who's doing the R&D, the guys that know about the subject, or the bean counters? 
As an ex publican I even struggle with the concept of a 30L none stackable one way keg that has no handles, WH&S would have a field day, dunno maybe it's just an end of life crisis for a contumelious curmudgeon. Cheers


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## Malted Mick

Grmblz said:


> End of life crisis for a contumelious curmudgeon. Cheers


Exactly where I am at in my life as well! Love those two c words used together!


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## Ian Mackenzie

Grmblz said:


> In a perfect world lol.
> I'm just mystified that a new design lid (and pretty bloody good from what I can make out) is incorporated into the fermenters and yet not available on the re-purposed one way kegs marketed as fermenters, sure it's all about economics, and ROI and people have fermented in re-purposed 50L commercial kegs for years.
> I just think we are entering a new era of HB where HB specific gear (not scaled down commercial) is being brought to market and of course there will be miss steps but I get frustrated by things being half way there.
> It's the old chestnut, who's doing the R&D, the guys that know about the subject, or the bean counters?
> As an ex publican I even struggle with the concept of a 30L none stackable one way keg that has no handles, WH&S would have a field day, dunno maybe it's just an end of life crisis for a contumelious curmudgeon. Cheers


I agree they definitely need handles. I was cleaning my chubby out yesterday sloshing with about 5lts of Stellar Clean when the bottom fell off and managed to bounce on the floor. It is now stuck on with Gaffer tape. First brew. At least it did not burst or crease.


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## Keg King

Grmblz said:


> In a perfect world lol.
> I'm just mystified that a new design lid (and pretty bloody good from what I can make out) is incorporated into the fermenters and yet not available on the re-purposed one way kegs marketed as fermenters, sure it's all about economics, and ROI and people have fermented in re-purposed 50L commercial kegs for years.
> I just think we are entering a new era of HB where HB specific gear (not scaled down commercial) is being brought to market and of course there will be miss steps but I get frustrated by things being half way there.
> It's the old chestnut, who's doing the R&D, the guys that know about the subject, or the bean counters?
> As an ex publican I even struggle with the concept of a 30L none stackable one way keg that has no handles, WH&S would have a field day, dunno maybe it's just an end of life crisis for a contumelious curmudgeon. Cheers


Well we just want to offer something simple and easy to use and the market will soon tells us if folks don't like it.


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## Grmblz

Keg King said:


> Well we just want to offer something simple and easy to use and the market will soon tells us if folks don't like it.


I'm sure there's a place for it, and my comment was meant more as an observation than a criticism, also a bit of "have you thought about doing it like this" because in all seriousness I'd buy four of them tomorrow, I find yeast/trub sticks to the slope on conicals, and as mentioned the stainless stands are a pain once you get more than a couple of them, I also think 30L is perfect, the extra headspace can be a Godsend (yes I know about minimising head space) the straight sides ensure everything ends up at the bottom, and being tubular rather than spherical means you have less waste, I probably wouldn't be so keen if it wasn't for having a couple of FKJ's and loving them (if only they were bigger lol)


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