# Sanitiser Use



## Hootsmon (8/5/16)

Noob question. When you use the no rinse brew sanitise for your gear and bottles etc. Why doesn't it kill the yeast when it comes into contact with it. On the label it says it is Hydrogen Peroxide which is bad for the yeast. Always wondered.


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## SBOB (8/5/16)

Hootsmon said:


> Noob question. When you use the no rinse brew sanitise for your gear and bottles etc. Why doesn't it kill the yeast when it comes into contact with it. On the label it says it is Hydrogen Peroxide which is bad for the yeast. Always wondered.


because you water it down with 20+L of wort before the yeast is added?


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## timmi9191 (8/5/16)

hydrogen peroxide as a no rinse??


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/5/16)

timmi9191 said:


> hydrogen peroxide as a no rinse??



Hell yes it is no rinse.

Its an AWESOME no rinse sanitiser


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## timmi9191 (8/5/16)

OK - learn something new everyday


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/5/16)

Peroxide breaks down very quickly. Its is highly reactive which is what makes it a great contact sanitiser and breaks down into water and hydrogen.

It turns your fingers white if you get it on them 

Was my goto no-rinse sanitiser, Much better than star-san

I only stopped using it because I couldnt buy the high concentration stuff anymore easly, only the piss ant stuff in the chemist or supermarket


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## Jack of all biers (9/5/16)

Its used in baby bottle sanitation products, so no rinse for the delicate little ones (yeast I mean) is also ok.


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## peteru (11/5/16)

Hydrogen peroxide is H2O2 and when it breaks down, you get 2 H2O and O2, right?

So, in effect, when you add hydrogen peroxide, you'll eventually get water and oxygen. Now, entertain this idea...

Could you use hydrogen peroxide to oxygenate your wort during the yeast growth phase? For example, have it rigged to deliver one drop of peroxide into your starter every minute while it sits on the stir plate. How about straight into the fermenter during the first 12 hours?


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## manticle (11/5/16)

Has been discussed before - likely to kill all your yeast during the oxidation/reduction reaction.

http://www.morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue4.6/miller.html


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## MHB (11/5/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Peroxide breaks down very quickly. Its is highly reactive which is what makes it a great contact sanitiser and breaks down into water and hydrogen.
> 
> It turns your fingers white if you get it on them
> 
> ...


Stu
Try a good swimming pool shop, they used to sell 4L strong H2O2, there are also a bunch on eBay.
Another big fan of peroxide, the Brew Shield type products sold in HBS's are stabilised (mostly with Sodium Thiosulphate) and contain some Silver Ions (I think as the nitrate), at the recommended dilution you get what they call a syngeneic effect, the stabiliser stops stabilising, and the Ag causes a very rapid disassociation into the active form (about as powerful an oxidiser as you will find) but it is consumed pretty quickly, so it stops being dangerous to your yeast in pretty a short time.

If you want some idea of how rapid the reaction between Peroxide and Silver can be, remember Jet Backpacks
so don't stir it with a silver spoon OK.
Mark


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## Yob (11/5/16)

Pure sodium percabonate breaks down to Soda ash and Hydrogen peroxide as well so also good for what ales ya..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate


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## yankinoz (11/5/16)

Hydrogen peroxide is a much more active oxidizing agent than dissolved free oxygen. As such it should react immediately with organic matter in wort. Pour in wort; hydrogen peroxide is gone. In the very small quantities left behind by a dilute solution after draining, there should be no discernible effect on beer quality. Leave a lot behind, and there might be an effect.

No, it won't work for oxygenating the wort, because there won't be any left behind for the yeast to use.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/5/16)

MHB said:


> Try a good swimming pool shop, they used to sell 4L strong H2O2, there are also a bunch on eBay.


Dont know how you would get it off evilbay, the strong peroxide I used to use requires vented caps, so not suitable for posting


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## MHB (11/5/16)

Well they advertise it on eBay and quote freight, it might not be as strong as you were getting but would be more than strong enough for the job.
Shipping Hazardous Goods can be a pain, even getting 25L of Iodophor shipped can be fun. but there are ways and I suspect the vendor will have explored them, or like I said go to a pool shop is there is one in a reasonable distance.

Its great stuff, but the strong versions can be really dangerous, if you are thinking of getting any, be careful! and for Gods sake don't get it in your eyes...
The lost American two up is right about how reactive it is, for all of the reasons mentioned so far, it is the only product that I trust as a "NO Rinse" Sanitiser.
Mark


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## A.B. (11/5/16)

noob question: would hyrogen peroxide damage an SS fermenter? I just got a new one and want to put a beer on tonight, but dont have anything to sanitise it with and have no time to get to brew shop...

just googled this:
http://www.ozoneservices.com/articles/004.htm


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/5/16)

The strong stuff is heaps fun


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/5/16)

A.B. said:


> noob question: would hyrogen peroxide damage an SS fermenter?


No


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## MHB (11/5/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> The strong stuff is heaps fun


Pyromaniac
M


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## Feldon (11/5/16)

I recall someone on here a few years ago saying you can get the high strength H2O2 from hairdressers (they dilute it down and use it to make up hair colourings).

I just get the ready-to-go stuff from BrewCraft called 'Brew Sanitize". Cheap enough (more so via eBay). Three capfuls to a litre of water.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/5/16)

MHB said:


> Pyromaniac
> M


Who...me...play with dangerous stuff and blow stuff up...... wouldnt even consider it....


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## Dave70 (11/5/16)

Hydrogen peroxide mixed into a paste with a little baking soda (2:1) also makes a first class teeth whitener. Just mind your moe or beard.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/5/16)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN2tHSkcObk


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## Vini2ton (11/5/16)

There's a product which Dan sells called pure wine. I'm pretty sure it's peroxide. It oxidizes sulphur dioxide allegedly resulting in less of a wine headache.


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## drsmurto (11/5/16)

Vini2ton said:


> There's a product which Dan sells called pure wine. I'm pretty sure it's peroxide. It oxidizes sulphur dioxide allegedly resulting in less of a wine headache.


Partly correct.

It oxidises the sulfur dioxide which results in a wine with less sulfur dioxide. 

If you can pinpoint the single molecule in wine of the 1000s in there that causes a headache i invite you to write your findings up, get them peer reviewed and collect your nobel prize.

There was a review published recently about sulfites in wine and the evidence in relation to health in the Australian Journal of Grape and Wine Research.


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## Mozz (11/5/16)

Ethanol. If we could just get that stuff out of wine and beer the world would be a much sadder place.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/5/16)

Mozz said:


> Ethanol. If we could just get that stuff out of wine and beer the world would be a much sadder place.


Its easier to get it out of the petrol


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## Danwood (12/5/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN2tHSkcObk


Spectakoolaar !


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/5/16)

Danwood said:


> Spectakoolaar !



Something deep inside me is making me want to buy some more peroxide.....somehow I dont think all of it will get used for brewing related activities h34r:


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## Matplat (12/5/16)

The Morgans sanitiser product is also hydrogen peroxide based.... but you use an order of magnitude more of it each time, compared with starsan...


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## Batz (12/5/16)

As well as hydrogen peroxide, there is phosphoric acid another no rinse sanitiser.

I buy it from Dairy suppliers, it's around $200.00 for 20lt.

http://www.daviesway.com.au/all-products/eliminate.aspx?lv.crumb=73678

Go in with 4 other brewers and your 5 litres will give you 2,500 litres of sanitiser. Works out quite reasonable.

They sell this as well

http://www.daviesway.com.au/all-products/iophos.aspx?lv.crumb=73678

As I bought 20lt of Eliminate I don't see myself ever buying anything else.

Batz


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## Bribie G (12/5/16)

Coles or Woolies, but it's only 3% stuff.





Makes a great wound cleaner, I used to have ingrowing toenails and when they got infected, run some Peroxide into the infected area that would froth up, then apply Betadine.

You can also gargle it and swish around for peripheral gum disease and look like a rabid dog for a few minutes.

It will bleach hair but not white, it turns out like a ginger tom cat colour. I think the old time hairdressers used to mix it with something else.


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/5/16)

Batz said:


> As well as hydrogen peroxide, there is phosphoric acid another no rinse sanitiser.
> 
> I buy it from Dairy suppliers, it's around $200.00 for 20lt.
> 
> ...


The dairy stuff is not far removed from Star-San, they are both Phosphoric Acid acid

I remember a thread a while back when people where saying that the dairy phos wasnt as good as Star-San ( cause it didnt have Star-san on the label  ).... Silly fools


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## Bribie G (12/5/16)

Starsan is a blend of Phosphoric Acid, dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and 10% mystery ingredient, probably the surfactant that gives the mighty foam.


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## wessmith (12/5/16)

Peroxide needs to be in acid environment to be really effective. I currently have Proxitane which is peroxide and peroxyacetic acid. Working strength around 1 to 1.5% and it is truly no rinse. Same stuff vege growers use when they "wash" lettuce and other produce for a no-wash product in the supermarket.

Comes in 25Ltrs at full strength and costs around $5/Ltr. I know I am off the beaten track but happy to share some of this with others around the NSW far south coast area (Narooma)

Wes


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## Batz (12/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> Starsan is a blend of Phosphoric Acid, dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and 10% mystery ingredient, probably the surfactant that gives the mighty foam.


Eliminate had Glyeilic Acid, also used in skin products. Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid is believed to cause ingrown toe nails?? Don't know really? You ever used Starsan Bribie?  :lol:


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/5/16)

That IPhos is the bomb


Think about this for a second. Where they milk cows is ******* filthy. Cow shit everywhere. Dont for a minute think that a milking plant is a clean place

Everything is washed down with Iphos or phos. Iphos is more used on the teets and udders, straight phos for CIP and equipment wash down

If anyone wants a bulk buy I can go down to Norco and grab 20lts of each off the floor tomorrow


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/5/16)

IOPHOS

Phosphoric acid 10-30%
Iodine 10%
Non-ionic surfactant
10-30%

Rinse milking machine with Iophos using 20ml/10L Cold water. Use a minimum of 7.5 litres per set of cups.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/5/16)

Eliminate

Phosphoric acid >60%
Glycolic acid 10-30%
Surfactant 10%


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## ratchie (13/5/16)

This is one of the ones I use http://www.tasmanchemicals.com.au/pdf/Idyne%20-%20PIS.pdf I bought about 60Lts of it when a local rural supplies closed down [it was cheap]


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## Matplat (13/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> Coles or Woolies, but it's only 3% stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can also put a few drops in your ears if sinuses are playing up....


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## drsmurto (13/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> Starsan is a blend of Phosphoric Acid, dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid and 10% mystery ingredient, probably the surfactant that gives the mighty foam.


Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid IS a surfactant.


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## MHB (13/5/16)

All so notoriously foamy, It was one of the early man made detergents and one of the first to raise environmental concerns. I have seen pictures of rivers covered in meter deep foam that wasn't very biodegradable and could hang around in/on the river all the way to the sea... and beyond winding up on beaches.
******* awful stuff! fortunately there are better more biodegradable options available today.
M


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## rude (13/5/16)

Ive been using this stuff for years now cost me $50 for the 5 L
Still got half of it to go


It has the air vented cap also


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## drsmurto (14/5/16)

rude said:


> Ive been using this stuff for years now cost me $50 for the 5 L
> Still got half of it to go
> 
> 
> ...


4.9% is quite dilute. You can buy 30% solutions with no special license.


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## rude (14/5/16)

Good to know thanks

I use 5ml TR-5 to 500ml filtered water

So 1 part to100 parts at the max end of their recomendations


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## Gibbo411 (20/5/16)

Howdy chaps, 

Has anyone used kegking's take on it's version of starsan?
http://kegking.com.au/cleaners-and-sanitising-equipment/phosphoric-acid-blend-sanitiser-350ml-starsan.html

The formula is slightly different, just wanted to get some feedback before purchasing 

Cheers


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## mongey (20/5/16)

Gibbo411 said:


> Howdy chaps,
> 
> Has anyone used kegking's take on it's version of starsan?
> http://kegking.com.au/cleaners-and-sanitising-equipment/phosphoric-acid-blend-sanitiser-350ml-starsan.html
> ...


I actually got some delivered with some supplies for the first time this week

have been using idophor since i stared brewing 2 years ago and figured I'd try something new .

Havent used it yet , still have enough idophor for my next bottling session so it will be a month or so till I need it


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## mofox1 (20/5/16)

Gibbo411 said:


> Howdy chaps,
> 
> Has anyone used kegking's take on it's version of starsan?
> http://kegking.com.au/cleaners-and-sanitising-equipment/phosphoric-acid-blend-sanitiser-350ml-starsan.html
> ...


Been using it for a few years, works fine.

I actually splashed out and bought the five star product for when the keg King one runs out (daredevil moi!). No special reason other than it was there and the I figure the extra cost is negligible in the long term given how long the stuff lasts for.


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## peteru (20/5/16)

I have not used Starsan so can not make direct comparison, but based on Youtube videos, Starsan seems to foam a lot more. The Keg King stuff seems to work just fine though. You still get enough foam to coat the surfaces with sanitiser, but not so much that it feels like a nuisance.


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## Gibbo411 (20/5/16)

Good stuff, thanks for the feedback fellas.
The Morgan's sanitizer rinse I have been using for a while doesn't go far especially now that I've started kegging so I'm in the market for something new, I'll be getting some of this right away before I do my next brew. Thanks again


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