# Style Of The Week 30/4/08 - Vienna Lager



## Stuster (30/4/08)

Moving along with the wintry weather, a nice toasty beer for the cooler weather, Vienna Lager.

*Some links to info on Vienna Lagers*
Maltose Falcons write up on the style
An older AHB thread with PoL's Vienna recipe

So tell us about grains, hops, yeasts, fermentation schedules? Any ideas for partial or kit brewers? How long to lager for? Anything else? Tell us all you know so we can make some great beers. :chug: 

BJCP Style 3A



> 3A. Vienna Lager
> 
> Aroma: Moderately rich German malt aroma (of Vienna and/or Munich malt). A light toasted malt aroma may be present. Similar, though less intense than Oktoberfest. Clean lager character, with no fruity esters or diacetyl. Noble hop aroma may be low to none. Caramel aroma is inappropriate.
> 
> ...


----------



## warrenlw63 (30/4/08)

Not sure if this was totally to style but it was mighty nice. Should do another this year I guess. :icon_cheers: 

Hope it helps.

Warren -

Last Minute Amber

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

03-A European Amber Lager, Vienna Lager

Min OG: 1.046 Max OG: 1.052
Min IBU: 18 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 25 Max Clr: 41 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 50.00 Wort Size (L): 50.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.60
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.37
Anticipated EBC: 18.5
Anticipated IBU: 27.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 64.52 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.039 SG 9.68 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9.4 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 31
2.8 0.30 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 167
75.5 8.00 kg. Barrett Burston Pale Malt Australia 1.037 3
2.8 0.30 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 93
9.4 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 19

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.00 g. Styrian Goldings Plug 4.60 25.2 60 min.
45.00 g. Saaz Plug 2.20 1.6 15 min.
30.00 g. Saaz Plug 2.20 0.7 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

WYeast 2633 Octoberfest


Water Profile
-------------

Profile: Vienna
Profile known for: 

Calcium(Ca): 200.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 60.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 8.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 125.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 12.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 120.0 ppm

pH: 8.33


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: straight infusion

Total Grain kg: 10.60
Total Water Qts: 33.60 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water L: 31.80 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 15.50 C


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacc rest 5 90 65 65 Infuse 72 31.80 3.00


Total Water Qts: 33.60 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water L: 31.80 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume L: 38.87 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.
All infusion amounts are in Liters.
All infusion ratios are Liters/Kilograms.


----------



## kabooby (30/4/08)

Good timing Stuster.

I was only listening to the Basic Brewing podcast this morning on Vienna lagers.

I have had this recipe waiting to go for a little while now. Just waiting for some empty cubes and some spare time to brew. 

Type: All Grain
Date: 26/03/2008 
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Brewer: Grant 
Boil Size: 48.17 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Grants Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Vienna Malt (Joe White) (12.0 EBC) Grain 60.61 % 
3.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 36.36 % 
0.25 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 3.03 % 
90.00 gm Tettnang [4.30 %] (60 min) Hops 24.5 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
2.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs German Lager (White Labs #WLP830) Yeast-Lager 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.75 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 % 
Bitterness: 24.5 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 20.3 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Double Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 8.25 kg 
Sparge Water: 13.37 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Double Infusion, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
20 min Protein Rest Add 15.51 L of water at 55.6 C 50.0 C 
60 min Saccrification Add 13.78 L of water at 87.7 C 66.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 13.77 L of water at 98.1 C 75.6 C 


Kabooby


----------



## matti (30/4/08)

I am dreaming of one day making a great Vienna.

I've read Noonans book from cover to cover and on his recipe idea page he suggests
Hard water
protein rest
Strike @65
Hallertau/ Perle 60, 45 and 15 minutes 
1.25HBU, 65 HBU and 15 HBU.

Similar grain bills as above posts.
Also suggest 100% Vienna for a dryer version or adding some noble hops at strike to beat it up a bit,

Wheres that HBU/IBU conversion again!?


----------



## newguy (30/4/08)

I brewed this version recently. It scored 40+ at the last competition but didn't get a medal. Tough class.

11 gallon batch
OG 1.053
FG 1.006 (finished a bit drier than I wanted)
23 IBU

Grist:
20% light munich, 1.73 kg
80% pale 2 row, 6.18 kg

Mashed @ 67C for one hour.

40g Target pellets (10%) 90 minutes
57g Tettnang (German) pellets (2.3%) flameout

2308 Munich lager yeast pitched @ 14C. Fermented at 15.5-16C for 1 week, then warmed to room temperature (19C) for 2 weeks.

If I had access to Vienna malt, I'd use 50-100% Vienna with the balance ordinary 2 row or pilsner malt. I used munich because it's what I have on hand.


----------



## Duff (30/4/08)

I made this one some time ago. Was real nice and very easy to drink. Sent a bottle up to AndrewQLD who might like to add in as well. Have never tried Weyermann Vienna but would be interested to taste the flavour difference.


07-15 Vienna Lager II

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.50
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.48
Anticipated SRM: 6.3
Anticipated IBU: 25.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
70.6 6.00 kg. JWM Vienna Australia 1.038 4
23.5 2.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
5.9 0.50 kg. JWM Caramalt Australia 1.036 28

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Mt. Hood Pellet 5.00 16.0 60 min.
50.00 g. Mt. Hood Pellet 5.00 9.7 20 min.


Yeast
-----

S-189.


----------



## AndrewQLD (30/4/08)

I can vouch for Duff's legendary Vienna Lager, loved the addition of the caramalt. Very smooth and malty :icon_drool2: .
One of the clearest beers I have seen as well.
Just about my favourite winter beer.

Andrew


----------



## Steve (30/4/08)

My first all grain was AndrewQLD's vienna lager:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=186

Its was beautiful, got a thumbs up from fellow Canberra brewers and got me hooked on all grain.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Kai (30/4/08)

I'll vote for PoL's vienna... a stellar beer.


----------



## cliffo (30/4/08)

Duff said:


> I made this one some time ago. Was real nice and very easy to drink. Sent a bottle up to AndrewQLD who might like to add in as well. Have never tried Weyermann Vienna but would be interested to taste the flavour difference.
> 
> 
> View attachment 18923



Duff, You've sold me with that photo...looks fantastic!!


----------



## Maxt (30/4/08)

Just kegged this tonight.
Brewer: Matt


Style: Vienna Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 31.19 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 26.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 23.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minute
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.55 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 58.01 % 
2.00 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 32.68 % 
0.45 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBCGrain 7.35 % 
0.12 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1000.8 EBC)Grain 1.96 % 
45.00 gm Liberty [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 19.8 IBU 
15.00 gm Liberty [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 4.0 IBU 
1 Pkgs Octoberfest/Marzen Lager (White Labs #WLP820Yeast-La 

Notes:
------
Black malt added at mash out for colour


----------



## Steve (1/5/08)

I hope you are going to be filling a couple of PET bottles for our roadies to the meeting young fella!  
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Maxt (1/5/08)

B)


----------



## kabooby (19/6/08)

Went to Redoak last night for dinner and first beer of the rank was there Vienna Lager. Nice clean and Malty, just the way I like my lagers.

Anyone else had any fine examples of a comercial Vienna?

Kabooby


----------



## Pumpy (19/6/08)

The first Vienna lager I made was First wort hopped with Tetternang & Hersbrucker Tony gave me the recipe , the beer was cloudy because in those days I only did a 60 min boil but the fundly enough the beer's aroma and flavour was excellent .

Pumpy


----------



## reviled (1/11/09)

Hey guys

Been thinking of doing a Vienna lager or okoberfest type thing soon..

Grist wise im keeping it simple

4kg Global Vienna
1kg Global Munich II

And hop wise, was going to do just a single bittering addition, but im wondering what hop would work best out of what ive got available? I currently have in my inventory the following...

Pacific Hallertau
Sauvin
Motueka
EKG
Super Alpha
And US hops like Columbus, Simcoe, Amarillo, Cascade, Chinook - not really suitable I thought?

Any help/advice appreciated :icon_cheers: 

Cheers


----------



## razz (1/11/09)

Morning all. I would use the Pac hallertau, followed by the Motueka then Super Alpha reviled.


----------



## reviled (1/11/09)

razz said:


> Morning all. I would use the Pac hallertau, followed by the Motueka then Super Alpha reviled.



Cheers Razz :icon_cheers:


----------



## Goofinder (1/11/09)

I recently made a Vienna Lager with Pacific Hallertau. I used a bittering and then a small flavour addition but if I did it again I would drop the flavour addition. It came out pretty nice, but I would probably go for the real Hallertau or another more traditional hop next time (if I ever make a lager again!)


----------



## therook (18/10/11)

Doing a Vienna on the weekend, anyone used Spalt as the Hops before?

Rook


----------



## sponge (23/1/15)

Looking to get a vienna lager down over the weekend. First attempt at this style and thought I'd keep things pretty simple. All suggestions welcome..

100% vienna
100% hallertau @ FWH

1.048
25IBUs
Wy2042 @ 10'C


----------



## Weizguy (2/3/15)

sponge said:


> Looking to get a vienna lager down over the weekend. First attempt at this style and thought I'd keep things pretty simple. All suggestions welcome..
> 
> 100% vienna
> 100% hallertau @ FWH
> ...


Start simple. Complicate things later. Should be good and clean. May need to lager for a few weeks to drop the yeast out.

Will taste filthy until it falls clear.

I'd recommend a Dortmunder be made and dumped on the yeast cake.


----------



## Bribie G (22/12/17)

Bump.

I finally caught up with my brewing schedule and can devote a fridge to a lager till February. Heating up the strike liquor right now.
For anyone not aware, Brewman Steve now stocks Saaz T45 pellets (as opposed to the "weaker" regular T90) and I've been dying to give them a whirl to try and capture that Euro nose, and less trub. The only decent lager yeast I have in stock is S-189 but a big pitch of that should do, Switzerland's not too far away from Vienna anyway. 

*Vienna Lager 2017*
Vienna Lager

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 22.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.050
Total Hops (g): 33.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.054 (°P): 13.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.31 %
Colour (SRM): 8.8 (EBC): 17.3
Bitterness (IBU): 25.8 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 74
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

*Grain Bill*
----------------
4.500 kg Weyermann Vienna (89.11%)
0.500 kg Base Barrett Burston Pale (9.9%)
0.050 kg Carafa II malt (0.99%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
33.0 g Saaz T45 Pellet (6% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil) (1.5 g/L) FWH

*Misc Bill*
----------------
Calcium Chloride

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 60 Minutes. However I'll be doing a "mini decoction" by boiling-up a kilo of the Vienna to bump up to Dex rest.
Fermented at 9°C [_edit from original post_] with Saflager S-189


----------



## EalingDrop (22/12/17)

S 189 can work from 9 - 22 c (according to their site), since you've dedicated the fridge anyway, is there a reason why you're fermenting a lager at 20c? Or is that just initial ferment then slowly ramp down temp to the usual lager temp?


----------



## Bribie G (22/12/17)

Sorry, bloody software. I'll be doing 9 for about 10 days, then raise a bit for a d rest then a proper lager at around 4 degrees till February.


----------



## EalingDrop (22/12/17)

Recipe looks good. Would be interesting to see how it comes out (colour especially).


----------



## Bribie G (22/12/17)

The wort just now after cubing





Hmm, Probably a bit towards the copper end for my liking. Even adding the Carafa 2 BrewMate predicted an EBC of 8.8 which should have been on the light side, but it's way more than that I'd say. 

Previous recipes came out like this without the Carafa - probably just go 100% Vienna next time.


----------



## TidalPete (22/12/17)

> Even adding the Carafa 2 BrewMate predicted an EBC of 8.8 which should have been on the light side, but it's way more than that I'd say.



And yet another reason to use BeerSmith Bribie. 



> Previous recipes came out like this without the Carafa - probably just go 100% Vienna next time.



A !00% Vienna grist is always the best choice when paired with a decent liquid Lager yeast IMHO.


----------



## Bribie G (23/12/17)

Pete I can't seem to find my old Beersmith passwords, ac number etc as it's been a few years and a couple of computers ago. 
If you have time could you run recipe through BS and see what EBC it predicts?

I won't be brewing now till the end of Jan as I have 3 full kegs and 2 full fermenting fridges so I'll look into repurchasing BS then.


----------



## luggy (23/12/17)

Bribie G said:


> Pete I can't seem to find my old Beersmith passwords, ac number etc as it's been a few years and a couple of computers ago.
> If you have time could you run recipe through BS and see what EBC it predicts?
> 
> I won't be brewing now till the end of Jan as I have 3 full kegs and 2 full fermenting fridges so I'll look into repurchasing BS then.



16.5 EBC mate


----------



## Jack of all biers (23/12/17)

Brewers Friend predicts that grain bill at 19 EBC and anywhere between 9-11 SRM (depending on whose calculations they use). This supposedly puts it at, or just under the minimum for the 'style' (according to someone or something, mumble, murml....r .


----------



## Bribie G (23/12/17)

Thanks for that, looks like BrewMate is still in the ballpark. I'd been expecting something a bit less red for some reason.


----------



## manticle (23/12/17)

Colour’s beautiful. If it tastes like it looks when fermented, drink it and shut up.


----------



## Jack of all biers (23/12/17)

Yep, looks perfect colour in the glass to me. I'd think 100% Vienna malt would only work colour wise (to 'style') if there were a couple of long decoctions thrown in for colour and caramelisation flavours. If that wasn't the go and you still wanted to tweak it, maybe 3-4% Melanoiden or a 33% dark Munich/67% Vienna would get around the same colour you have now, but make it a bit maltier. 

Horses and courses, many ways to skin a cat, an' all....

*4.2 Vienna Lager [BJCP]*

*Aroma: *Moderately rich German malt aroma (of Vienna and/or Munich malt). A light toasted malt aroma may be
present. Similar, though less intense than Oktoberfest. Clean lager character, with no fruity esters or diacetyl. Noble
hop aroma may be low to none. Caramel aroma is inappropriate.

*Appearance: Light reddish amber to copper colour*. Bright clarity. Large, off-white, persistent head.

*Flavour: *Soft, elegant malt complexity is in the forefront, with a firm enough hop bitterness to provide a balanced
finish. Some toasted character from the use of Vienna malt. *No roasted or caramel flavour*. Fairly dry finish, with
both malt and hop bitterness present in the aftertaste. Noble hop flavour may be low to none.


----------



## Chris79 (28/12/17)

I like the colour of the top one Bribie. My last Vienna lager was similar to the vibe Jack mention. It was about 59% Vienna, 32% Munich I, 4% Melanoidin, 2.5% CaraAroma. A little darker than I was hoping for. But still tasted good.

I think next time, I’ll do something similar to 75% Vienna, 21% Munich I, 1% Carafa I.

Anyway, here’s two pics of my latest version, the light has shown up the colour a little different. Really enjoy this style.


----------

