# Mashout V's No Mashout = ? Efficiency



## SJW (12/7/07)

This is a big question with a lot of different answers but I am trying to find out what are the advantages of doing a Mashout? I understand what it does, but I have not noticed any difference in final beer quality one way or another. I usually decide to Mashout or not based on the style of beer I am doing in relation to the amount of grain I am mashing. I.e. typically for a standard Lager I would do a mashout soley for the benefit of only needing to do one batch spage afterwards to reach pre-boil volume. Now if I am doing a Belgian Strong or something with a large grain bill I would not do a mashout for the 2 reasons, firstly that I may not have enough room left in my mash tun and secondly with such a large grain bill I dont seem to need as mush sparge water.
I understand that by doing a mashout it increases viscosity of the mash liquor thus enabling it to flow easier and theoretically achieve higher efficiencies but I think that a similar result are achieved with accurate sparge water temps.
The only limitation I have is with only one March pump I am forced to batch sparge but with a big recirc. And typically two batch sparges with no mashout or one batch sparge with a mashout nice and slow I still get 75%+ efficiencies.
So what do u guys do and why?
And how do u find it effects your effiencies using one method or another?


Steve


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## nifty (12/7/07)

I always mashout with about 10 litres of near boiling water to make up my first batch sparge volume. 

I continuously recirc the mash with a march pump. At mashout I turn the pump off, add the mash out water to the top of the tun, turn the pump back on and let it circulate through for about 10 to 15 mins. Emtpy the tun, fill it up with more sparge water, recirc for about 10 to 15 mins and then empty.

I constantly get 85% to 88% efficiency into the boiler, but I think the crush helps with the good efficiency as well.

cheers

nifty


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## bear09 (12/7/07)

SJW said:


> This is a big question with a lot of different answers but I am trying to find out what are the advantages of doing a Mashout? I understand what it does, but I have not noticed any difference in final beer quality one way or another. I usually decide to Mashout or not based on the style of beer I am doing in relation to the amount of grain I am mashing. I.e. typically for a standard Lager I would do a mashout soley for the benefit of only needing to do one batch spage afterwards to reach pre-boil volume. Now if I am doing a Belgian Strong or something with a large grain bill I would not do a mashout for the 2 reasons, firstly that I may not have enough room left in my mash tun and secondly with such a large grain bill I dont seem to need as mush sparge water.
> I understand that by doing a mashout it increases viscosity of the mash liquor thus enabling it to flow easier and theoretically achieve higher efficiencies but I think that a similar result are achieved with accurate sparge water temps.
> The only limitation I have is with only one March pump I am forced to batch sparge but with a big recirc. And typically two batch sparges with no mashout or one batch sparge with a mashout nice and slow I still get 75%+ efficiencies.
> So what do u guys do and why?
> ...




If you do not mash out then while you are sparging the enzymes keep working i,e; the malt profile of your beer will continue to change. If you mash out all enzym activity will stop and your malt character will be locked in place - I prefer this.

Interesting to note - Most micro's dont mash out based soley on the cost of heating 1500 Litres of water up 15 degs. At home in a pot it seems like nothing but to them it could be $150 extra on the powerbill for a batch... scary huh...

Mash out is quick and easy - I strongly recommend it.

Cheers! :chug:


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## KoNG (12/7/07)

i voted mashout batch sparge: i mainly do this to help with sparging more so than stopping the enzymes at a certain point.

Just a small point SJW, doing a mashout witl "decrease" the viscosity of your wort, allowing for a better run off, not the other way round.

Cheers
KoNG


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## SJW (12/7/07)

> If you do not mash out then while you are sparging the enzymes keep working i,e; the malt profile of your beer will continue to change. If you mash out all enzym activity will stop and your malt character will be locked in place - I prefer this.


I can't understand why letting the enzymes keep working is a problem anyway. Surely they will only keep working while there is starch to convert. I thought the idea was to have max enzyme activity until all the starch was converted so why would we want to stop that at any point? Maybe I need to do a side by side test and see if I can tell any diff between a mashout and non mashout. I cant imagine the malt character altering that much.



> Just a small point SJW, doing a mashout witl "decrease" the viscosity of your wort, allowing for a better run off, not the other way round.


Sorry, my balls up


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## Asher (12/7/07)

Malt character maybe not... Malt profile yes.
In striving to be able to reproduce results I do a mash out.

Unless your kettle temp is the same as your desired mash temp during the length of the sparge the enzymes will continue to chew sugars. If its not you will get some significant cooling of the first runnings returning the wort to a beta-like rest temp with will produce a drier beer than otherwise calculated. Sparge flows & times in my brewery are not controlled as well as other parts so I like to have the enzymes denatured before they hit the kettle....

Asher


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## Mr Bond (12/7/07)

KoNG said:


> i voted mashout batch sparge: i mainly do this to help with sparging more so than stopping the enzymes at a certain point.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> KoNG



"Ditto"


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## goatherder (12/7/07)

SJW, have a listen to the Basic Brewing Radio podcast with Denny Conn. It's about batch sparging in general but he covers the mashout question. He's done a bit of research on the topic and if I remember correctly said he couldn't detect an efficiency increase when using a mashout. His advice seemed to be that it wasn't an important or necessary step but it didn't hurt to do it.

Linky: http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing...4-12-07conn.mp3

edit: For the record, I batch sparge with no mash out. I skip the mashout to save having to heat up enough water to get to mashout temps. Saves time and energy for me. I have the kettle heating pretty much straight after first runnings, so this fixes the enzymes for me.


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## matti (12/7/07)

In partial
I mashed out fly sparging but haven't got the facilty to to ag this way.

In my One AG thus far I batch sparged and mashed out.

I have not enough experience to to compare efficiencies

I am mashing out according to recipes.
Reason why stated above. 
It is all about profile of thy beer.
matti


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## Keifer (12/7/07)

> QUOTE
> If you do not mash out then while you are sparging the enzymes keep working i,e; the malt profile of your beer will continue to change. If you mash out all enzym activity will stop and your malt character will be locked in place - I prefer this.
> 
> I can't understand why letting the enzymes keep working is a problem anyway. Surely they will only keep working while there is starch to convert. I thought the idea was to have max enzyme activity until all the starch was converted so why would we want to stop that at any point? Maybe I need to do a side by side test and see if I can tell any diff between a mashout and non mashout. I cant imagine the malt character altering that much.



Im thinking the same thing SJW, if all the conversions are done, there is nothing left to convert into drier or sweeter wort...??


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## goatherder (12/7/07)

Keifer said:


> Im thinking the same thing SJW, if all the conversions are done, there is nothing left to convert into drier or sweeter wort...??



Dextrins from alpha amylase action can still be broken into simple sugars by the beta. You may end up with a dryer beer than you intended if this happens. Raising the temp will denature the beta amylase and "fix" the wort composition.


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## MHB (12/7/07)

There are a lot of other enzymes involved in a mash, other than just alpha and beta amylase.

Not only do you want to control the balance of sugars, the amount of FAN is very important to the head on the finished beer and to healthy yeast during the ferment.

Some do protein rests - nothing to do with alpha and beta amylase but it affects the beer, unless you have good well thought out reasons for not doing a mash out - why wouldnt you - and the higher temperature makes lautering easier to!

MHB


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## SpillsMostOfIt (12/7/07)

For the first time ever today, I mashed at 64degC in my anticipated final volume and mashed out at 70degC, dunk (batch) sparging with my expected grain absorption plus boil off. I got the boil off wrong by about 50% on my relatively unused half-batch system on which I was brewing a quarter-batch and added water before the first hop addition.

I normally get (using the Beer Smith Brewhouse Efficiency calculation) 80% efficiency. Today, I got 85%. I use the same way of determining the value, so let's ignore whether or not it is a good metric. I reckon I got an extra few percent and the *cough* 'only' change was raising the temperature as a 'mash-out'.

I don't know why it occurred exactly (and assume it is because of the mash-out in my BIAB system), but I do know that the extra extraction is worth having. I might have to see if I can replicate it tomorrow...

HTH.

Edit: Dickhead typing...


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## /// (12/7/07)

The reason we do not mash out is partly due to chasing extract, working with strong worts and strategic reasons involving low lipid dissolution.

The very British rule we follow is not to mash out, we are working with highly viscous worts, a deep bed and we need as much extract as we can get. We seek to leave no scrap left of extract behind on the deep beds of my home brew system or the 1200l plant we use. 

Tooheys beer-bling system of 90,000 litres has a 30cm approx grain bed depth. But this is a mash mixer/lauter system not a mash tun. The 1200l system I use has approx 50cm and my HM approx 20cm and are mash tuns. There is a big difference, I am sure most HB systems and I know most Micro systems resemble a mash tun not a mash mixer/ lauter system. For the mash mixer/lauter tun the temp is increased as a 'mash out' to make the mash run quickly thru the shallow bed, a 30 minute tyoe run off. Most HB'ers I would say have a mash tun and a deep bed, and at least a 90 min run off....

A fine crush and quick run off can affect lipid and phenol pickup and thus increase the oxidative precursors downstream. Not so much an issue for HB'ers or myself as product goes quickly, but for a large brewery with stock in trade it is... hence pasturisation and other processes help.

So I guess it is all what you are trying to achieve. I look for good extract and bright worts and on both systems never need to recirc for more than a minute or 2. Before i start to wax lyrical about floating mashes and coarse crushes I had better sign off...


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## tangent (12/7/07)

wax on...


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## SJW (13/7/07)

> Linky: http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing...4-12-07conn.mp3
> 
> edit: For the record, I batch sparge with no mash out. I skip the mashout to save having to heat up enough water to get to mashout temps. Saves time and energy for me. I have the kettle heating pretty much straight after first runnings, so this fixes the enzymes for me.


Thanks Scott/chris  
That radio bit was tops. I guess I'm in the same boat as you in as much as even though I do mashout I sparge straight into my kettle that has heat on from the end of the first runnings. Just interesting to bounce this stuff around.




> There are a lot of other enzymes involved in a mash, other than just alpha and beta amylase.
> 
> Not only do you want to control the balance of sugars, the amount of FAN is very important to the head on the finished beer and to healthy yeast during the ferment.
> 
> ...



Nice one Mark! I thought that was the case, and the way I see it, with doing a mashout at least thats less sparging I need to do. After reading Brewing Science or parts of, it says that there is still a lot of stuff that's going on in the mash process that has not been uncovered yet. So I think if we just use the ol K.I.S.S. method combined with "the what works for me" method we will all keep making good beer :super: 

Steve


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## SJW (13/7/07)

> Dextrins from alpha amylase action can still be broken into simple sugars by the beta. You may end up with a dryer beer than you intended if this happens. Raising the temp will denature the beta amylase and "fix" the wort composition.


I wonder how this applies to those fellas who mash over night?


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## matti (13/7/07)

Interesting!?
Only reason to mash over night is to get the acidity down to level suitable for full conversion.
This would only consist to about 5 % of total mash.

Then again, there are so many ways of making a beer that this one probabry needs its own thread.

Mashing overnight?


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## Cortez The Killer (13/7/07)

There is a long thread about mashing over night - some people mash for up to 8-10 hours over night - quiet an interesting method if you are strapped for time

I mashed out when I did my first couple of batches, but didn't notice any difference in efficiency when I stopped. 

Cheers


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## berapnopod (14/7/07)

matti said:


> Only reason to mash over night is to get the acidity down to level suitable for full conversion.



The only reason? How about saves some time since you're not waiting for the mash to convert?

Anyway, for the record I Flatch sparge and always do a mash out.

For various reasons (eg. wife needs a lift somewhere, run out of gas) I have left the mash at 78C for times between 10 minutes and up to 2 hours. I went back through my log books and found a noisy, but reasonably
well defined correlation between time spent at mash out and efficiency. My efficiency has varied between 72 and 95%, but I only got over 90% when I had a mash out longer than an hour. Since I can't be bothered to wait an hour for a few extra efficiency points, I usually mash out for 10 minutes.

In summary, the longer the mash out, the better efficiency I get.

Berp.


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## SJW (16/7/07)

> In summary, the longer the mash out, the better efficiency I get.


Thats interesting <_< I have never encountered this phenomenon before. How would a longer mashout improve efficiency as all ezyme activity should be denatured if a correct temp mashout is done? I dont doubt what your saying just wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing.

Steve


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## Airgead (16/7/07)

Folks

I always mash out but only because my HLT is a tad under sized so by doing a 20 min mashout with around 5l I can top the urn back up and have just enough sparge water to get my volume without having to stop the sparge half way through to top the urn up.

Cheers
Dave


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## The King of Spain (16/7/07)

Slightly off topic but I have stuggled with efficiency. I did a Bock on the weekend, I was targeting 1.070 and ended up with 1.060 which according to ProMash gives me an efficiency of just over 60%. DME to rescue (again).

I mashed for 1 hr. Started @66C and finished at 64C at a ratio of 2:8 to 1.

I did a mash out and then did a single batch sparge (measured temperature in the tun was 77C), gave it a good stir and drained after 10min. The volumes all worked with no water additions required. 

Any comments? Should I consider a longer mash?

Here is the ProMash report:


% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
67.4 4.80 kg. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
21.1 1.50 kg. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
3.8 0.27 kg. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 35
7.7 0.55 kg. Crystal 80L 1.033 80




Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
42.53 g. Hallertau Northern Brewer Whole 8.50 34.5 60 min.
7.09 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Whole 4.75 1.6 15 min.
7.09 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Whole 4.75 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

S189


Water Profile
-------------

Rainwater 1 tsp of Calcium Chloride


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## Mr Bond (16/7/07)

deaves said:


> I mashed for 1 hr. Started @66C and finished at 64C at a ratio of 2:8 to 1.
> 
> 
> Any comments? Should I consider a longer mash?



Try a 3:1 ratio and a 90 min mash.Thats my standard regime and its never let me down.


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## matti (16/7/07)

Deave.
Single batch sparge?? 
Stir and rinse again maybe!?
Nothing wrong with longer mashes or proper equip and right PH,
etc, etc..

Luve DME lol


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/7/07)

SJW said:


> Thats interesting <_< I have never encountered this phenomenon before. How would a longer mashout improve efficiency as all ezyme activity should be denatured if a correct temp mashout is done? I dont doubt what your saying just wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing.
> 
> Steve


Got to agree with SJW.The science doesnt add up.But stranger things have happened at sea.Anyone like to explain this one ?May be just longer higher temp allows better sparge extraction.Urban myth no#.Myth busters were are you. :blink:


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## Stuster (16/7/07)

Deaves, sounds like you are doing everything right so here are just some throws in the dark. How much water did you use all up? How much did you get in the kettle? Do you have any dead space in the mash tun? Do you have a mill or do you get it crushed from the LHBS?


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## berapnopod (17/7/07)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Got to agree with SJW.The science doesnt add up.But stranger things have happened at sea.Anyone like to explain this one ?May be just longer higher temp allows better sparge extraction.Urban myth no#.Myth busters were are you. :blink:



GB, I *am* the Mythbuster! h34r: 
I am just reporting the experimental evidence. As for an explanation, my only guess is that the long time at a higher temp helps dissolve out sugars that might normally be stuck in the grain matrix. Doesn't make 100% sense as I would expect any sugars to be in solution pretty much 100% at temps above 70C, but thats the best I have come up with so far.

Berp.


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## berapnopod (17/7/07)

deaves said:


> Slightly off topic but I have stuggled with efficiency. I did a Bock on the weekend, I was targeting 1.070 and ended up with 1.060 which according to ProMash gives me an efficiency of just over 60%. DME to rescue (again).
> 
> I mashed for 1 hr. Started @66C and finished at 64C at a ratio of 2:8 to 1.



Others have made good suggestions on what to check, like your grain crush etc.

I wanted to point out that a mash temp of 66C, whilst normally OK is perilously close to the malt gelatinisation (?) temperature at 65C. Basically, if you never get your mash above 65C, the grain starches will not dissolve proerly and will not be available for conversion. So another possibility is to check your themometer and make sure its not reading a couple of degrees high.

Berp.


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## The King of Spain (17/7/07)

> I wanted to point out that a mash temp of 66C, whilst normally OK is perilously close to the malt gelatinisation (?) temperature at 65C. Basically, if you never get your mash above 65C, the grain starches will not dissolve proerly and will not be available for conversion. So another possibility is to check your themometer and make sure its not reading a couple of degrees high.



Thanks berapnopod and stuster

From memory (calcs on another PC) I back calculate volumes working on water losses to grain (1L/kg) so in this case 7.0L, 3L left with in the boiler with protein haze, and a small amount to hops (cant remember, not much say 0.5L). So the mash was initialy done with with 20L, then a single batch sparge with the volume required to give me 23L into the fermenter which was 24L.

Ross crushes the grain for me so I don't reckon I have any problems there.

I will try a longer mash. I am interested by berapnopds comments above. I often mash my ales at 65C and the temp never gets above that. Are these starches released and then dissolved with a mashout where the grain is at 77C. Maybe thats the angle on the longer times allowed for longer mashout??

Sound like some google time comming up....


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## tangent (17/7/07)

> I was targeting 1.070 and ended up with 1.060 which according to ProMash gives me an efficiency of just over 60%. DME to rescue (again).



i'd rather have a 1.060 beer with no DME


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## SJW (17/7/07)

> I wanted to point out that a mash temp of 66C, whilst normally OK is perilously close to the malt gelatinisation (?) temperature at 65C. Basically, if you never get your mash above 65C, the grain starches will not dissolve proerly and will not be available for conversion. So another possibility is to check your themometer and make sure its not reading a couple of degrees high.
> 
> Berp.


Is this a fact? :huh: 
This is another thing I have never heard of before. As I have done some very cools mash's in the past, at 62 degC with good efficiencies. But knowing my brewing style back then I probably did a mashout. If the above statement is true would this be the magic reason for a mashout? After listening to "04-12-07 Basic Brewing Radio - Batch Sparging with Denny Conn" on http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podcasts/2088 I dont bother with a mashout, especially as I am doing batch sparging.
I thought it would be quite acceptable to do a mash in the low 60's for better Beta-amylase starch conversion for more highly fermentable wort?
Even if u did not do a mashout with such a cool mash if your sparge water was at the correct temp i.e. 77 degC would'nt this disolve the already converted sugar thus improving the efficiency?

Steve


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## tangent (17/7/07)

maybe your mashout is in fact a beta rest, so you're getting alpha and beta rests, resulting in a more fermentable wort.


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## Ross (17/7/07)

berapnopod said:


> I wanted to point out that a mash temp of 66C, whilst normally OK is perilously close to the malt gelatinisation (?) temperature at 65C. Basically, if you never get your mash above 65C, the grain starches will not dissolve proerly and will not be available for conversion. So another possibility is to check your themometer and make sure its not reading a couple of degrees high.
> 
> Berp.



I do plenty of brews at 63c & the efficiency doesn't alter one bit. I cant see how this would be accountable for the low yields at all. 
I get consitant 85% on a 5% brew. That's 26L of 1052 wort from 5kg of grain.
When batch sparging, I add water to get 2 equal runoffs. 1st addition is added at 98c which brings the mash up to approx 78c, give it a good mix, recirculate, & run off into the kettle as fast as the grain bed allows. The second water addition is allowed to naturally cool while the 1st sparge is happening, so it's at approx 85c when added, this again brings the mash temp up to approx 78c. The main factor in mash efficiency I've found is having sufficient hot sparge water to rinse out the sugars, which means following with a good 90 mins hard boil.

cheers Ross


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## SJW (17/7/07)

> The main factor in mash efficiency I've found is having sufficient hot sparge water to rinse out the sugars, which means following with a good 90 mins hard boil.


I would have to agree 100% Ross. Thats what I found. I tend to mash with half the water and sparge with the other half over two equal runoffs. And whether or not I mashout I raise the sparge water temp as required.

Steve


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## berapnopod (17/7/07)

WRT mash gelatinisation and efficiency, I got my original information from three posts by Steve Alexander on HBD ("-S"), which can be found here.

Sounds like others here are doing fine with lower mash temps, and a second reading of the above suggests that gelatinisation can occur at temps below 65C, but at a slower rate. I am just not sure what that rate is.

The point of getting your mash above this temp is that some of the malt is not available to the enzymes to be broken down into sugars. This is because it is wrapped up in the starch matrix of the grain. Theoretically, if you mash too low and don't achieve gelatinisation, but then do a mash out, you will end up with a starchy wort which will give you low attenuation in your wort. But as I say above, if people are working fine at mash temps below 65C, then they must be achieving gelatinisation over the period of the mash.

That or their thermometers are reading a few degrees too low h34r: 

Berp.


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## SJW (18/7/07)

> The point of getting your mash above this temp is that some of the malt is not available to the enzymes to be broken down into sugars. This is because it is wrapped up in the starch matrix of the grain. Theoretically, if you mash too low and don't achieve gelatinisation, but then do a mash out, you will end up with a starchy wort which will give you low attenuation in your wort. But as I say above, if people are working fine at mash temps below 65C, then they must be achieving gelatinisation over the period of the mash.
> 
> That or their thermometers are reading a few degrees too low
> 
> Berp.



Point taken


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## Hashie (19/7/07)

Just want to throw my 2 cents into the debate.

I made an Australian dark ale yesterday with a 60 minute mash out at 76 degrees.

First, I BIAB, I usually do a 60 minute mash @66 degrees + a mash out for 20 minutes at 76 degrees. I weigh and crush my own grain with a 'Carona' style mill (but not for to much longer) and using the above method, consistently get 73-75%.

Yesterday, with the longer mash out my efficiency went up to 80%. To me, that is a significant improvement. The only difference in my brew day was a longer mash out.


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## argon (6/5/11)

Ross said:


> I do plenty of brews at 63c & the efficiency doesn't alter one bit. I cant see how this would be accountable for the low yields at all.
> I get consitant 85% on a 5% brew. That's 26L of 1052 wort from 5kg of grain.
> When batch sparging, I add water to get 2 equal runoffs. 1st addition is added at 98c which brings the mash up to approx 78c, give it a good mix, recirculate, & run off into the kettle as fast as the grain bed allows. The second water addition is allowed to naturally cool while the 1st sparge is happening, so it's at approx 85c when added, this again brings the mash temp up to approx 78c. The main factor in mash efficiency I've found is having sufficient hot sparge water to rinse out the sugars, which means following with a good 90 mins hard boil.
> 
> cheers Ross



Digging up an old thread here... but wanted to share my experience from yesterday in relation to skipping a mashout step.

I'd been doing some reading recently on the effectiveness and necessity of doing a mashout when batch sparging. After reading the above yesterday, during a mash, i decided to forgo the mashout and just sparge with hotter water.

Essentially i did as Ross has outlined above, although in my system i only required 90C water for sparging. I drained the kettle and applied heat to first runnings to bring it up into mashout temps (approx 78C). I then conducted an equal 2 part sparge with 90C water. The first sparge bumped the grain bed from 66C to 78C. The second kept it there. By the time lautering was complete i had already come to the boil.

So i still denatured all the enzymes and had the grain bed in the range of a mashout. Probably saved myself a good 30 mins on the brewday. Actually hit 85% mash efficiency into kettle. I don't think i'll ever be going back to a separate mashout step.


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## bradsbrew (6/5/11)

Ross said:


> When batch sparging, I add water to get 2 equal runoffs. 1st addition is added at 98c which brings the mash up to approx 78c, give it a good mix, recirculate, & run off into the kettle as fast as the grain bed allows. The second water addition is allowed to naturally cool while the 1st sparge is happening, so it's at approx 85c when added, this again brings the mash temp up to approx 78c. The main factor in mash efficiency I've found is having sufficient hot sparge water to rinse out the sugars, which means following with a good 90 mins hard boil.
> 
> cheers Ross


This is pretty much the way I do it as well. I have consistently got 85% this way and since using the pera pump to recirc the mash for 5 min before first run-off I have bumped that up to 90%. I figure that if the rambo is on low that is denaturing the enzymes as the first runn off hits the kettle. And by the time I finish running off the last sparge, with the perastaltic pump, the 80 odd Litres are just coming to the boil. 

Cheers


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## cdbrown (6/5/11)

I'm not quite understanding the process - 
At the end of the mash, you drain your first runnings to the kettle and begin to fire it up
While the kettle is warming you add half your sparge water at 90c which increases grain bed temp, effectively doing a mash out and sparge in the one step
Do you then fully drain to the kettle and add the 2nd half of the sparge? Or are you adding the 2nd lot of sparge while draining the first?

Ross seems to drain the sparge quickly, but when I've done a fast drain it just causes channeling in the bed and efficiencies drop. I'd love to be able to knock 30mins off the brew (takes about 15-20mins to get to mash out using the HERMS + some time to recirc at the mash out temp).


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## argon (6/5/11)

This is how i do it;
- Drain tun to kettle on full
- Fire up burner on low to heat above 80C
- Batch Sparge 1 - add 90C water to mash tun and stir
- Wait 5 mins
- Vorlauf
- Wait 5 mins
- Drain tun to kettle on full
- Burner on full
- Batch Sparge 2 - add 90C water to mash tun and stir
- Wait 5 mins
- Vorlauf
- Wait 5 mins
- Drain tun to kettle on full
By the time all liquor is in kettle it's coming up to boil


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## felten (6/5/11)

I thought it didn't matter if you get channeling when you are batch sparging, as once you stir everything up, the liquid is as saturated with sugars as its going to get.


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