# Rochefort 10 Clone.



## Dave70 (8/12/11)

This is just a cut and paste job from Homebrew Chef, and seems to be very through busy recipe.

I wouldn't mind making this a Christmas project for the winter warmer rather than treading (stumbling) down the old stout path again. 

I've never made a Belgian this big or complicated so thought I'd run it past you folks and see if you think he's just being tricky or on the mark.

It was either this or a barley wine..



Recipe Specifications:

Batch Size: 6.00 gal 
Boil Size: 7.23 gal
OG: 1.106
FG: 1.022
Color: 51.0 SRM
IBU: 22.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Ingredients:

AmountItem Type % or IBU 
6.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) (1.6 SRM) Grain 30.9 % 
3.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM Grain 15.4 % 
1.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 7.7 % 
1.50 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 7.7 % 
1.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5.1 % 
0.69 lb Date Sugar (3.0 SRM) Sugar 3.5 % 
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2.6 % 
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.3 % 
1.00 tsppH 5.2 (Mash ) Misc 
1.00 oz Kent Goldings [5.90%] (60 min) Hops 11.3 IBU 
1.50 ozHallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90%] (60 min) Hops 8.5 IBU 
0.50 ozHallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90%] (30 min) Hops 2.2 IBU 
5.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Spice 
1.00 lb Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 % 
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 % 
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 % 
1.00 lb Dark Rock Candi Syrup (500.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 % 
1.00 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 5.1 % 
1.00 item Servomyces Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tspYeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) Yeast2000 ML Starter 
Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
Rochefort 10 Clone Brew Sheet

Rochefort 10 Clone BeerSmith file
Mash Schedule:

Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Gluten Rest Add 20.63 qt of water at 143.5 F 135.0 F 30 min 
Beta Rest Decoct 3.24 qt of mash and boil it 145.0 F 30 min
Full Beta Rest Decoct 7.44 qt of mash and boil it 165.0 F 30 min 
Mashout Decoct 3.71 qt of mash and boil it 172.0 F 15 min 


Notes:

For Bottling, added 2 oz rock candy, 2 oz turbonado sugar and 2 oz dark candi syrup


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## manticle (8/12/11)

My understanding is that he brewed that before visiting the brewery and would simplify the recipe if brewing again.

I brewed a double batch of a homage to R10 with vitalstatistix recently. I'll hunt up the recipe. I plan to bulk age it for around a year (so another 8-10 months).

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=57359


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## Dave70 (8/12/11)

Yeah, I'd like to know where he trimmed the fat. That date sugar looks interesting but.
I thought the monks claimed they didn't use coriander in Roachfort beers?


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## gap (8/12/11)

There are a large number of ingredients in that recipe the monks 
would not have used.


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## Nick JD (8/12/11)

Never thought I'd see a beer recipe that complex. 

Does beer get better the more ingredients it has?


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## manticle (8/12/11)

Dave70 said:


> Yeah, I'd like to know where he trimmed the fat. That date sugar looks interesting but.
> I thought the monks claimed they didn't use coriander in Roachfort beers?




Pretty sure they use a tiny bit in the 10.

From my memory of the brewing network show based around Sean's trip, it was traditionally used due to some kind of preserving characteristic.

Worth hunting up - will give you a lot of good info.


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## CosmicBertie (13/12/11)

I made a Rochefort 8 clone earlier on in the year, I was under the impression that the difference between the 8 and 10 was the amount of candy sugar added.

4.75Kg Pilsner
0.75Kg CaraMunich
0.25Kg Special B
0.25Kg Corn (flaked)
0.1Kg Special Roast
0.65Kg Dark candy sugar

56g Styrian - 75mins
24g Hallertauer - 30mins
12g Hallertauer - 5mins
10g Coriander seed - 5mins

It was very good. Unfortunately the bottle I bought from G+G to compare with was oxidised and tasted like sherry


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## black_labb (13/12/11)

let me start this by saying that I haven't brewed many belgians and havent yet brewed a dark strong belgian. I have drank quite a few while travelling in europe and I also know that the belgian brewers tend to use much simpler recipes than they appear to be. 

I'd cut out the dark brown sugar. It seems every american recipe adds brown sugar. (I'm assuming this is an american recipe due to the complexity, sorry if I'm wrong). I'd use more dark candy sugar instead (if you make it yourself adding some tracle/mollasses to the candy sugar while making it works well, or even brown sugar while making it). I probably wouldn't bother with the clear candy sugar either. Not sure about the date sugar, I'd probably leave it out as it's not going to be traditional and hard to find as far as I know.

I think the wheat in there is just because the brewer wants it for head retention. I don't know if it is neccesary or wether it is used by rochefort. I wouldn't be too fussed with the wheat.

I'd use munich instead of the marris otter

I'd probably drop the caravienne, I don't think it would add much to the recipe. the extra dark candy sugar would cover the extra changes in terms of colour/flavour.

I would probably only use one hop for the bittering. I don't know why they feel the need to use 2 different hops for bittering in a beer like this. 

I would think that cosmic bertie's recipe would be better, though I'd use carafa instead of the special roast and maybe use some munich in there, though i think it would turn out very well as is.

Post some results when it's brewed and aged!!!


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## Dave70 (13/12/11)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> I made a Rochefort 8 clone earlier on in the year, I was under the impression that the difference between the 8 and 10 was the amount of candy sugar added.
> 
> 4.75Kg Pilsner
> 0.75Kg CaraMunich
> ...



Step mash or single?


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## Jazzafish (13/12/11)

That is a big beer... 
Using ~29% sugars seems a bit much. Most I have used is 14% and I had to work a bit to get it to attenuate, so if you want to add this much I suggest you add the sugars late in the ferment.


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## Swinging Beef (13/12/11)

Two years ago, me and three other good home brewers all brewed the R10 recipe in jamil's book with the same ingredients at around the same time.

For different reasons, all of them turned out 'not good'.

R10 is a God.
Attempting to get close to it will only driv eyou mad, and potentially, like it did for us, ruin your enjoyment of the real thing for yers.


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## Dave70 (13/12/11)

Jazzafish said:


> That is a big beer...
> Using ~29% sugars seems a bit much. Most I have used is 14% and I had to work a bit to get it to attenuate, so if you want to add this much I suggest you add the sugars late in the ferment.



It is a big beer. Frankly I think the creator is having a little tug. If anyone could taste all the subtleties and layers in that recipe, good luck to them.
I think up to 20% sugars was the upper limit recommended in Brew like a Monk. 
Still, that date sugar looks interesting and seems to be little more than finely (like food processor finely) chopped dates. I might dehydrate a pack and toss a couple of handfuls in after high krausen and see what happens. I like dates.

Might as well just call it a Belgian dark ale while I'm at it..


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## Dave70 (13/12/11)

Swinging Beef said:


> Attempting to get close to it will only driv eyou mad, and potentially, like it did for us, ruin your enjoyment of the real thing for yers.



Luckily for me I haven't tasted the real thing, and at $12+delivery for .330ml that's not a situation likley to change any time soon.
If it's anything like the Chimay blue I 'enjoyed' the other night, I wont be bothering. (From Dans, mind you)

http://www.beerstore.com.au/beer/rochefort-trappiste-10-beer


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## mikk (13/12/11)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> I made a Rochefort 8 clone earlier on in the year, I was under the impression that the difference between the 8 and 10 was the amount of candy sugar added.
> 
> 4.75Kg Pilsner
> 0.75Kg CaraMunich
> ...



I've brewed this recipe using WLP530, and used Carafa I in place of the 'special roast', and added a small amount of normal sugar, and some extra dark candy sugar syrup too to get it up to Rochefort 10 strength.

It's quite a good beer, but still not as good as the real deal. It's important to note that by the time it gets to Aus, most Belgian beers taste pretty crappy compared to the exact same beer in Belgium. This includes belgian beers i've bought from Dans, Slowbeer (particularly poor quality), & Belgian Beer Cafe's- all varying degrees of disappointing. Hence trying to clone a Rochefort you've only tasted locally isn't the best to aim for! Needless to say, i've given up on buying Belgians locally.

I'm about to brew it again though, & try a different mash/fermentation procedure to try to get it a bit closer to the real deal. Rochefort 8/10 & Westvleteren 8 are my favourite beers ever, so if i could even get a beer 90% as good, i'd be happy...

Dave 70, if you're in Sydney let me know & you can try some.

Mash Schedule used was [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], yeast pitched at 19 deg & allowed to rise to 22 after a few days. Sugars added after a week of fermentation.


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## neonmeate (13/12/11)

Dave70 said:


> Luckily for me I haven't tasted the real thing, and at $12+delivery for .330ml that's not a situation likley to change any time soon.
> If it's anything like the Chimay blue I 'enjoyed' the other night, I wont be bothering. (From Dans, mind you)
> 
> http://www.beerstore.com.au/beer/rochefort-trappiste-10-beer



it's a *lot* better than chimay blue.


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## drtomc (13/12/11)

I was recently given a Rochefort 10 for my birthday, the same day as I was brewing a BDSA. Bummer I didn't get to drink it before planning the BDSA which was more inspired by Chimay Blue. Chimay Blue is good, but the Rochefort 10 is easily head and shoulders above, in my opinion.

T.


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## neonmeate (13/12/11)

pity you can't get this stuff anymore - according to craftbrewer at least, the real thing used by rochefort - as far as i can understand not just caramelised white (cane) sugar but actually the unrefined beet sugar byproduct (plus some caramelisation?). i coughed up for it and used it in a dark belgian ale (not a rochefort clone) and it gave a lovely earthy sweet flavour i've never got in beer before.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=939

perhaps you could throw some beetroot in your mash...


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## Swinging Beef (13/12/11)

Dave70 said:


> Luckily for me I haven't tasted the real thing, and at $12+delivery for .330ml that's not a situation likley to change any time soon.
> If it's anything like the Chimay blue I 'enjoyed' the other night, I wont be bothering. (From Dans, mind you)
> 
> http://www.beerstore.com.au/beer/rochefort-trappiste-10-beer


Err.. so why do you want 20 litres of the stuff if you dont even know what it tastes like?
Dont get me wrong, I reckon R10 is a spectacular beer with no equal (except maybe St bernardus quad) but it is surely an acquired taste.

Why not make yourself an awesome triple instead?


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## CosmicBertie (13/12/11)

Dave70 said:


> Step mash or single?



Step mash. Something like [email protected], then [email protected] 

I added the dark candy sugar fairly early on in the boil. To stop it from dropping straight to the bottom and burning, I dunked the jug containing the syrup in the kettle to dissolve it, then swirled it a bit to mix it up. Its a syrup too, not the hard rock candy which, from my investigations, is the wrong stuff to add. Like others have said, you can make your own from white sugar, but this stuff is made from sugar beet. Its more akin to a black treacle/molasses than caramelised sugar. And its quite expensive too, although I only used 2/3 of the tub.

Fermented with Abbey Ale II at 18C for 3 days, then ramped it up 1C/day till ferment had completed. I wouldnt say it was a clone, but its a damn fine drop, malty with subtle banana/clove tones, definitely not a session beer though.

If you're anywhere near Sunbury, Vic, let me know, theres still a glass or two left in the keg


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## CosmicBertie (13/12/11)

mikk said:


> It's quite a good beer, but still not as good as the real deal. It's important to note that by the time it gets to Aus, most Belgian beers taste pretty crappy compared to the exact same beer in Belgium. This includes belgian beers i've bought from Dans, Slowbeer (particularly poor quality), & Belgian Beer Cafe's- all varying degrees of disappointing. Hence trying to clone a Rochefort you've only tasted locally isn't the best to aim for! Needless to say, i've given up on buying Belgians locally.



I've only ever drunk Rochforte in Belgium, and yeah, I wont buy them over here again after the last bottle. 

I am endeavoring to find a Kwak recipe though, if anyone has one. My all-time favourite beer.


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## CosmicBertie (13/12/11)

neonmeate said:


> pity you can't get this stuff anymore - according to craftbrewer at least, the real thing used by rochefort - as far as i can understand not just caramelised white (cane) sugar but actually the unrefined beet sugar byproduct (plus some caramelisation?). i coughed up for it and used it in a dark belgian ale (not a rochefort clone) and it gave a lovely earthy sweet flavour i've never got in beer before.
> 
> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=939
> 
> perhaps you could throw some beetroot in your mash...



This is the stuff I used Candi Syrup

I hate the word 'candi' too. Very American. Its candy. Candi is the crystalised rock stuff.


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## neonmeate (13/12/11)

Cosmic Bertie said:


> I hate the word 'candi' too. Very American. Its candy. Candi is the crystalised rock stuff.



i think candi is actually just French in origin?! (sucre candi = crystallised sugar)


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## Dave70 (14/12/11)

Swinging Beef said:


> Err.. so why do you want 20 litres of the stuff if you dont even know what it tastes like?
> Dont get me wrong, I reckon R10 is a spectacular beer with no equal (except maybe St bernardus quad) but it is surely an acquired taste.
> 
> Why not make yourself an awesome triple instead?



Cos I already have about a dozen tallies of tripple, (and a few golden strong's) sitting in a cool dark corner of the garage. I wish I had of kept my hands off instead picking through them. They're coming on around 10 months now and have taught me that a big beer needs some time under its belt. For 8%ers, they go down _to_ easy
Plus, I'm the only person I know who enjoys a bottle of Floreffe Prima Melior now and again, so I suspect it's unlikely I'd be repelled by R10.


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## Dave70 (14/12/11)

mikk said:


> I've brewed this recipe using WLP530, and used Carafa I in place of the 'special roast', and added a small amount of normal sugar, and some extra dark candy sugar syrup too to get it up to Rochefort 10 strength.
> 
> It's quite a good beer, but still not as good as the real deal. It's important to note that by the time it gets to Aus, most Belgian beers taste pretty crappy compared to the exact same beer in Belgium. This includes belgian beers i've bought from Dans, Slowbeer (particularly poor quality), & Belgian Beer Cafe's- all varying degrees of disappointing. Hence trying to clone a Rochefort you've only tasted locally isn't the best to aim for! Needless to say, i've given up on buying Belgians locally.
> 
> ...



Thanks mate, If I get five seconds to scratch my arse any time soon, I take you up on that.

Funny you say 'by the time gets to Aus'. There was a brewer - or maby a judge - talking in Brew like a Monk who claimed it worked in favor of beers shipped to America vs the local product. The imports had a leisurely extra couple of month to bob around in transit in the bowels of the ship whereas the local micro's were under pressure to turn their product in around 27 days.

Maby stuff earmarked for Aus gets to sit on the open deck with the tarps rolled back..


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## Dave70 (19/12/11)

I've decided not to bother with a clone and give myself the get out of jail free option of 'in the style of'. Actually its more of an experiment.

To that end, here's some dates that I'll be adding to the secondary.

After about 5 hours in the dehydrator, this lot had lost about 100g from their original weight. My idea was to make my own version of date sugar and get them as crumbly as possible without caramelizing them.








The result was less successful than I hoped for. These things are tough. They managed to trip the thermal overload on the food processor three times before I called uncle.
I think if you tried to chop them up moist however, you'd wind up with clumps of goo.







This unit has the balls to shred tree branches but was stopped in its tracks by the humble date. There must be a better way.








I'm probably going to base the recipe on Jamils and have a play around with loosing some of the base malt in favor of sugars to get it up where it needs to be.


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## mikk (19/12/11)

Dave70 said:


> Thanks mate, If I get five seconds to scratch my arse any time soon, I take you up on that.
> 
> Funny you say 'by the time gets to Aus'. There was a brewer - or maby a judge - talking in Brew like a Monk who claimed it worked in favor of beers shipped to America vs the local product. The imports had a leisurely extra couple of month to bob around in transit in the bowels of the ship whereas the local micro's were under pressure to turn their product in around 27 days.
> 
> Maby stuff earmarked for Aus gets to sit on the open deck with the tarps rolled back..



I remember reading that too, but i think that would only apply for the American example given. Several months in a boat at equitorial temperatures on the way to Aus is easily enough to pretty much destroy the quality of the belgian beers we get here, in comparison to those that stay in the Northern Hemisphere. 

Good luck with the dates, hope you end up with a great winter beer!


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## Dave70 (20/12/11)

Here's the recipe. 
Kind of turning into a self indulgent log just for me this thread, isn't it..

For 20L


Pils malt 5 kg
Munich 1 kg
Crystal 40 1kg
Special B .350g
Chocolate .250g

Hallertau 5.2 - 40g @ 70 min
 5.2 - 30g @ 30 min

Caramelized sugar - 350g added last 5 min to boil
Dark brown sugar - 350g added after fermentation settles down
Racked onto .500g of chopped dates. Maby add some more depending on how it's tasting after a week or so.

Those dates are about 73g of carbs and 46g of sugar per 100g. Could wind up interesting.

Mashed at 63 deg for 90 min.


Wyeast 1762 at 18 to 20 deg and 2L starter.

OG - 1.094
FG - 1.020

ABV 9.68%
IBU 33.7

Age under the house until June, at least.



Feel free to pick the eye's out of it or give me a discrete golf clap.


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## kelbygreen (20/12/11)

not much speacial b or chocolate or is that meant to say .350kg and .250kg?


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## Dave70 (20/12/11)

kelbygreen said:


> not much speacial b or chocolate or is that meant to say .350kg and .250kg?



I just had an idea for the worlds smallest mash..

Yeah, .350kg & .250kg.


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## gava (13/6/13)

I take it no one has had much success with making a 'close to' clone of this?

Me and a mate pretty much drank beer delux dry of this last year.. looove it!

-gav


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## tanukibrewer (13/6/13)

Brewed a BSDA based on the one in Jamil Z and John P book,I inverted the dark sugar.Definitely not a session beer,very strong and very sweet.Will see how it ages over the next few years.


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## gava (13/6/13)

Looks nice!!

How long has it been bottled? know of the sweet spot for a rochefort type beers age?

I'd like to get a nice one of theses down but once I see "years" to an aging its might be easier just go buy some rochefort, unless there is a recipe thats close.

Love the beer, Dont love the day after having the beer

-Gav


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## tanukibrewer (13/6/13)

10 months in the bottles so far and have 1 keg of it sitting around.Nice now that its getting cold to just have a small glass of it.I reckon if you like Belgians you will like what you decide to clone/brew cause they are big drinks with big flavours that make you think while you drink them.


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## tanukibrewer (13/6/13)

Oldest beer I have drunk is about 11 years old,a Coopers Millennium ale 1999 and that was damn fine.
Not sure how long these darker more complex brews age for?


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## Mikedub (13/6/13)

My last Dark Strong is dark and strong and has an overpowering vegemite flavour, I'm thinking its not to style
(stupid autolysis)


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## TSMill (13/6/13)

tanukibrewer said:


> Oldest beer I have drunk is about 11 years old,a Coopers Millennium ale 1999 and that was damn fine.
> Not sure how long these darker more complex brews age for?


Coopers or Hahn? I'm hoping the latter as I just found my 2 long lost bottles, so good to hear it's drinking well (or was 3 years ago!).


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## Maxt (13/6/13)

Enjoying my rochefort clone (based on Jamils). Mine is 6 months old...getting better every month. I like a small glass every few weeks.


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## tanukibrewer (13/6/13)

Yeah it was a Hahn,wasnt my bottle just lucky enough to try.Post a pic of the the beer when you crack it.Wish I'd taken a photo of it.


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## sinkas (17/6/13)

I made the clone according to The brewing Network show about rochefort, all belg malts all candy sugar etc, 
it was good, but not great,
the boozieness seem to make it tast dry even though it was slightly underattenuated, had a bottle the other day, which must be 4 or so years old, its ok, but certinly not impoved with age


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