# Banning Glassware In Pubs



## gibbocore (10/9/08)

There was a thing about this again on some shitty current affairs show recently after the mass glassing over the weekend.

Perhaps we should ban cars so pedestrains stop getting hit.


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## HoppingMad (10/9/08)

Shame that a couple of drongos can ruin it for the rest of us. 

Don't know if banning a glass is the answer though. The problem is with the person holding the glass. Only so much can be done by publicans and the like to ensure a safe environment.

What should we expect next? A trip to the local where we enjoy an ale in a paper cup, leaning on a Australian Safety Standard approved rubber bar with kiddysafe corners on it. Next they'll be banning meat raffles at the local due to the fact someone might trip and spear themselves on a chop bone!

Hopper.


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## Katherine (10/9/08)

Could you imagine paying $9.00 a pint and it being served in a plastic cup! That happened to me at the Oyster Bar in North Fremantle... I never returned!


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## Murcluf (10/9/08)

Perhap it would be a lot safer, if we just stayed home and brewed our own and never paid alcohol based excise tax again


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## petesbrew (10/9/08)

No one can take a joke or insult on the chin these days - These dickheads need to lighten up, and I reckon I've got the answer.

Put EVERYONE in Sumo Suits. That way if someone gets testy and has a swing, not much damage will be done, everyone will laugh, and all will be well.

Another thing I heard on the radio once was putting everyone in those little kiddy walkers, with the activity tables. 
Everyone will have a place to put their kiddy plastic sipper cup full of beer, and when you bump into someone you won't be able to reach them to be able to punch em. It'll just be like dodgem cars (apart from the spilling of beers when you hit).


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## FreemanDC (10/9/08)

i say you pay 6.50 and get to drink directly from the tap......


Might seem a little dirty, but after a few gulps no one will care, fixes the whole glass issue thing


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## Katherine (10/9/08)

Well what about porcelian plates.... will they soon serve our food on paper plates! 

Do you think society has got more violent???


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## mika (10/9/08)

Not at all, but I want to punch the people who thought this up :angry:


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## kram (10/9/08)

Got anything to add Wrenny? h34r:


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## FreemanDC (10/9/08)

Lets Just ban Pubs all together, Easiest Answer to a simple problem


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## devo (10/9/08)

Katie said:


> Do you think society has got more violent???



Kinda not surprised when you consider that most of the younger drinkers who are now hitting the pub/club scene have been raised on a steady diet of grand theft auto and other violent media. That kind of continual stimuli is just the ticket for molding well balanced juvenile minds especially when it comes to resolving conflict situations .<_<


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## Sammus (10/9/08)

devo said:


> Kinda not surprised when you consider that most of the younger drinkers who are now hitting the pub/club scene have been raised on a steady diet of grand theft auto and other violent media. That kind of continual stimuli is just the ticket for molding well balanced juvenile minds especially when it comes to resolving conflict situations .<_<



you can't be serious? blaming video games for this too? I reckon it's the other way round; kids that are prone to causing trouble are attracted to violence (ie the games), not the other way round.


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## Katherine (10/9/08)

> Lets Just ban Pubs all together, Easiest Answer to a simple problem



Doesnt sound like much fun!


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## gibbocore (10/9/08)

lets glass anyone that tries to ban glassware.... oh wait.


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## PostModern (10/9/08)

Sammus said:


> you can't be serious? blaming video games for this too? I reckon it's the other way round; kids that are prone to causing trouble are attracted to violence (ie the games), not the other way round.



Yeah, if video games affected behaviour, we'd all be running around in dark rooms listening to weird repetitive music and popping colourful pills. No... wait.


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## quantocks (10/9/08)

devo said:


> Kinda not surprised when you consider that most of the younger drinkers who are now hitting the pub/club scene have been raised on a steady diet of grand theft auto and other violent media. That kind of continual stimuli is just the ticket for molding well balanced juvenile minds especially when it comes to resolving conflict situations . <_<



I'll take a stab in the dark and say you're either a sucessful troll or just another do-gooder that also would support a glass ban. 

Just because I spent my youth playing Doom, I've never felt the urge to turn up at a bar with a rocket launcher and blow everyone down in my wake.


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## PostModern (10/9/08)

quantocks said:


> I'll take a stab in the dark and say you're either a sucessful troll or just another do-gooder that also would support a glass ban.
> 
> Just because I spent my youth playing Doom, I've never felt the urge to turn up at a bar with a rocket launcher and blow everyone down in my wake.



I like a bit of TF2 these days. I do find myself facing the occasional urge to bash faulty equipment with a spanner.


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## Katherine (10/9/08)

It doesnt really come down to the glass... it's what is in the glass! Some people just can not handle the amount they drink! I run a bistro beside a sportz bar there is an occasional fight what surprises me every time is that they are fully mature (grown, LOL) men!


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## bouncingcastle (10/9/08)

haysie said:


> Well said Devo, here in Melbourne violence is out of control, every weekend we here of bashings, glassings and deaths among our niteclubs. I have teenage children and when I see pictures of those "kids" with their faces cut open and scarred for life, I shudder. I dont have a problem with "no glass" in niteclubs due to society becoming more violent which is in your face every weekend here in Melbourne. We are slowly going from a good city to a city with a not so good reputation. Bring on that New York mayor, rulianio?? zero tolerance.



Crime was already on the way down before Julianni stepped in... Read a book called freakanomics - it discusses the drop in america's crimwave to be a direct result of legalised abortion.

Maybe we should have forced abortion here in Melbourne?

h34r:


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## haysie (10/9/08)

bouncingcastle said:


> Crime was already on the way down before Julianni stepped in... Read a book called freakanomics - it discusses the drop in america's crimwave to be a direct result of legalised abortion.
> 
> Maybe we should have forced abortion here in Melbourne?
> 
> h34r:




Yeah, i deleted my post. Always seems to be a lot of chest pumping amongst us.
Nonsense


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## warra48 (10/9/08)

Freemasha said:


> Lets Just ban Pubs all together, Easiest Answer to a simple problem



Sounds like an answer to me. I never frequent pubs, so it's all good to go for me.
Or, if that's not feasible, bring back 6 o'clock closing.
Somehow I can't imagine drongoes taking a swing at each other after consuming a vanilla milkshake at midnight.


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## bigholty (10/9/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Next they'll be banning meat raffles at the local due to the fact someone might trip and spear themselves on a chop bone!



A bloke from work won a meat tray at the pub then other day, then later on some dick-wad bashed the poor fella and stole his meat. He'd never seen the person before, just some random, aggressive, carnivourous jerk. :angry:


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## KGB (10/9/08)

gibbocore said:


> There was a thing about this again on some shitty current affairs show recently after the mass glassing over the weekend.
> 
> Perhaps we should ban cars so pedestrains stop getting hit.



Haven't seen that argument to ban bull bars for a while either - about time some wanker brought that up again while we're at it.

Many nightclubs already serve booze in plastic cups, most likely because people are there to get hammered. The same establishments serve in glassware during the day etc when normal people are there for a few drinks.

Banning glass is not the answer, something else will fill the void for these drunk and violent people to use.


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## bouncingcastle (10/9/08)

haysie said:


> Yeah, i deleted my post. Always seems to be a lot of chest pumping amongst us.
> Nonsense



Don't get me wrong... i actually liked the idea of forced abortion - It will bring down house prices as well as reduce glassings


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## Muggus (10/9/08)

Most places that serve good beer and use correct glassware are the kinds of places these blokes who go around glassing people wouldn't be caught dead in anyway. 
So I don't see the problem!


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## wabster (10/9/08)

Remember the old saying "Instant dickhead, just add alcohol"? the idiots doing all the violence and glassing have been raised to have no fear of the consequences of anything they do, they just don't care. They know if they end up in front of a Judge, the worst that will happen is they will get a slap on the wrist. 

Ok so I'm getting on in years, but when I was a kid in the 60's and early 70's in rural NSW if you screwed up you got a right arse kicking from the local police sergeant, and when your friends and family found out you felt this thing called "shame"  It was called "anti-social behaviour", and it was YOUR fault if you did it.

Added to this is the agenda of the Police, wanting both more power and resources, a major issue here in the state of political incompetence bordering on corruption, and the hysteria press trying to sell copy by sensationalising all this stuff and you have a real mess. I am fed up with having to see public policy constantly working with the lowest common denominator.

Rather than enforce the law, and maybe jail a few people and take a popularity hit, we see public policy take the easy solution and say prohibit glass in pubs, FFS, most stuff people drink in pubs comes outta glass be it draught beer, wine or mixed spirits, or pre-mix. What ever happened to the idea of people going out to a pub or club and having a fun time?

If I ever go into a bar that serves drinks in plastic before 8-9pm, I'm outta there, we have lost the plot, Cheerz Wabster


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## Katherine (10/9/08)

> Most places that serve good beer and use correct glassware are the kinds of places these blokes who go around glassing people wouldn't be caught dead in anyway.
> So I don't see the problem!



cheers....


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## geoffi (10/9/08)

Katie said:


> Well what about porcelian plates.... will they soon serve our food on paper plates!
> 
> Do you think society has got more violent???




I don't believe it has. In fact I'm sure we are less violent in general than in colonial times.

My pet theory is that society has had about the same level of violence for a long, long time. Probable 100 years or more (wars notwithstanding). I believe the remarkably steady murder rate backs this up.

What has changed is the 'media'.

We are now bombarded with 'news' every waking hour. And what makes 'news'? The shocking. The peverse. The violent.

So the tabloid media and the TV current affairs crowd focus on 'shocking' crimes to sell newspapers and get bums on seats.

They make money by whipping up controversy and scaring the shit out of the punters.

So we get the periodic moral panics.

End of rant.


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## buttersd70 (10/9/08)

> That lassie got glassed, and no c*** leaves here till we find out what c*** did it!


 :lol:


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## mossyrocks (10/9/08)

Muggus said:


> Most places that serve good beer and use correct glassware are the kinds of places these blokes who go around glassing people wouldn't be caught dead in anyway.
> So I don't see the problem!




I disagree with this statement. 

A friend of mine was glassed recently at a very good beer lounge in Brisbane by a regular on this forum.


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## bonj (10/9/08)

Can I just say that this is the first time I've been on television?


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## frogman (10/9/08)

I have 2 display shelves and a cupboard half filled with glasses, steins, tobys jugs and the like and I'm afraid that they will attack me.

I watch them closley but I think I may be missing something.

Thats it. No glass ever attacked anyone. 

BAN DICKHEADS NOT GLASSES


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## Effect (10/9/08)

bouncingcastle said:


> Crime was already on the way down before Julianni stepped in... Read a book called freakanomics - it discusses the drop in america's crimwave to be a direct result of legalised abortion.
> 
> Maybe we should have forced abortion here in Melbourne?
> 
> h34r:



yeah I like that book!!

Liked the sumo's and telltale names!! classic! sorta explains why people called crystal or randeen aren't that smart!

maybe they should sell beer in plastic to those people with names that show that they are dumb! and glass for the rest - no more glassing...


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## Pumpy (10/9/08)

Unfortunately some people and alchohol do not mix they change very quickly after a bottle of beer .

In NZ the amount of wife beatings has a direct correlation to when the All Blacks loose at Rugby 

There are somethings in life that continue to dissapoint the rest of humanity .

I once had a great friend that I refused to go drinking with as he was a magnet to attracting a fight ,after a beer, it was like associating with Doctor Jekyle and Mr Hyde .

Pumpy


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## Rustyc30 (10/9/08)

Have to agree I was glassed a few years ago after stepping between a guy that hit his missus in a bar ended up getting 15 stiches for the trouble end up the guy was off his tree on drug and been drinking all day just one of those thing wrong place wrong time and drunk idiot. hell of alot of things in a bar or club that people can grab if they want to try to do damage to someone


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## RetsamHsam (10/9/08)

mossyrocks said:


> I disagree with this statement.
> 
> A friend of mine was glassed recently at a very good beer lounge in Brisbane by a regular on this forum.



Which beer lounge??? Lets ban it!!!


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## jayandcath (10/9/08)

Pumpy said:


> I once had a great friend that I refused to go drinking with as he was a magnet to attracting a fight ,after a beer, it was like associating with Doctor Jekyle and Mr Hyde .
> 
> Pumpy



Pumpy,
I can't agree more with this. I too have a mate that I would do anything for, real hard worker and all round great guy, but more than two beers and I dis-own him go to the shitter and do the harold holt. All because you know what was comin' FIGHT NIGHT!

I just simply do not understand these people, I get pissed and laugh me head off at the world.

Jay


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## TidalPete (10/9/08)

Geoffi said:


> In fact I'm sure we are less violent in general than in colonial times.



You've got to be joking mate.
When I started drinking in 1960 a thing like a glassing would have caused national headlines. To drink in a public place was against the law (As it is now) & was almost unheard of. You could leave your doors & windows unlocked night & day throughout the year without worrying about being ripped off or invaded. Murders were far & few between & not on the daily basis that we see them now .
I could go on & on but laugh when you reckon the world is a better & less dangerous than it was when I was a kid.
BTW, colonial times don't really count here. It all boils down to the lack of parental control over the last couple of generations & the kids mimicking their (Lowlife) parents actions.
Rant over.  

TP :beer:


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## Cortez The Killer (10/9/08)

Many pubs in the gong have banned glasses

I wasn't aware and went out (which is a rarity for me) and the only decent beer the pub had was coopers pale 

I ordered a schooner and then noticed the bar chick was pouring it in plastic :blink: 

I said if it's in plastic I don't want it - she gave me a funny look and left it on the bar

We then took off and went off to the Five Islands Brewery - they still use dimple pint glasses :icon_chickcheers: 

Yes drinking out of plastic is just not cricket


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## quantocks (10/9/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Many pubs in the gong have banned glasses
> 
> I wasn't aware and went out (which is a rarity for me) and the only decent beer the pub had was coopers pale
> 
> ...




happened after that girl got glassed at, of all places, The Glass House.



is that irony or what?


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## Dave86 (10/9/08)

Hear hear Wabster,

I'm too young to remember those times, but growing up in a small country town in NSW there are still longing tales told of a particularly hard (but fair) sargeant who used to do exactly this but would take the offender five mile out of town before 'reprimanding' them and make them walk back to town to give them time to think about what they'd done.

There is plenty of dickheads out there, but for some reason they seem to be a bit of a protected species these days, recieving nothing more than a slap on the wrist for far worse offences


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## Millet Man (10/9/08)

TidalPete said:


> You've got to be joking mate.
> When I started drinking in 1960 a thing like a glassing would have caused national headlines. To drink in a public place was against the law (As it is now) & was almost unheard of. You could leave your doors & windows unlocked night & day throughout the year without worrying about being ripped off or invaded. Murders were far & few between & not on the daily basis that we see them now .
> I could go on & on but laugh when you reckon the world is a better & less dangerous than it was when I was a kid.
> BTW, colonial times don't really count here. It all boils down to the lack of parental control over the last couple of generations & the kids mimicking their (Lowlife) parents actions.
> ...


Spot on TP,

There is a general lack of behavioural accountability on parents and their children compared to when I was a lad.

As far as glassing goes there are a couple of great role models - Wayne Carey and Greg Bird glassing their girlfriends and their girlfriends sticking by them afterwards!!! wtf :blink: 

Kids these days...

Cheers, Andrew.


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## geoffi (10/9/08)

TidalPete said:


> You've got to be joking mate.
> When I started drinking in 1960 a thing like a glassing would have caused national headlines. To drink in a public place was against the law (As it is now) & was almost unheard of. You could leave your doors & windows unlocked night & day throughout the year without worrying about being ripped off or invaded. Murders were far & few between & not on the daily basis that we see them now .
> I could go on & on but laugh when you reckon the world is a better & less dangerous than it was when I was a kid.
> BTW, colonial times don't really count here. It all boils down to the lack of parental control over the last couple of generations & the kids mimicking their (Lowlife) parents actions.
> ...



Not joking at all. Want a fight about it?  

Seriously, though...murders are on a 'daily basis'? Shit. Glad I don't live in your town.

I state once more. You can look it up. Murder rates have remained pretty much the same for decades. They wobble around, but not much.

On a simplistic level there are more murders today, but only because there are more people. Same rate per 100,000 head of population. 'More' murders for the headlines to scream about, but not in terms of the actual rate.

I recently read Errol Flynn's autobiography 'My Wicked Wicked Ways'. He wrote about the frequent brawls that 'Aussie' blokes in the 20s and 30s were engaged in. Utterly alien to my experience, but I'm supposedly living in this ultra-violent age.

Then there were the razor gangs of the 20s and 30s. The 'Push'. The cocaine gangs. The 'good old days'?

BTW, around here 'colonial times' sure were a long way over in the '60s.

Sorry, folks. I think you're all victims of media mania.


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## bugwan (10/9/08)

Years ago, after seeing Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" I re-thought the reporting of media after the stat he quoted in his film: "In the past ten years, crime has fallen 20%, yet the reporting of crime on mass-media has risen 600%." I'm no Michael Moore fan necessarily, but that woke something in me..

I thought I'd check Australia's stats (see here).

Basically, the only type of crime that's risen in any significant way in the years between 1996 and 2006 is assault. Murder (as already stated) has remained pretty static at about 1.5 cases per 100,000 people.







"The trend in assaults shows an average growth of 5% each year between 1995 and 2006. This is four times the annual growth of the Australian population over the same period".

Of course, there's more to stats than pretty charts. In the page "Location of violent crime", at least 45% of assaults occur at home, another 34% occurs in "Community" (seems to include Transport, Street/footpath) and finally 20% falls into "Retail", which I presume covers pubs/bars etc (where glassings mainly occur).

So while assault in "Retail" areas isn't so great, the fact that overall assault rose over the 10 year period at a rate greater than population growth is a worry. I'll continue drinking my own beers in the company of people who are very unlikely to glass me...!


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## bonj (10/9/08)

Zero Tolerance is a crock. Everyone wants tougher punishments and longer sentences, but no-one's willing to foot the bill to keep all those "criminals" in prison. You have to compromise somewhere. One thing I always think is how you would feel if falsely accused of a crime. Zero Tolerance may not be so popular to you then. People *are* wrongly accused and *are* sent to prison. The last person to receive the death penalty in Australia was found to be innocent *after he was already put to death.

At least in Queensland, you would do actual time for glassing.... if it's reported to the police.*


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## Jazzafish (10/9/08)

We are getting off topic here... but it is reminding me of The Chasers "What have we learnt from current affairs." I wish people could find something better to do than watch that crap, but it sells the Ads that keep TV alive. Forget ratings, corporate sponsors own all media.

Looks like they have banned a glass, so next they'll ban the chairs people pick up instead.


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## quantocks (10/9/08)

if they aren't picking up their schooner glass to cut someone with, it'll be a knife, gun, whatever. but it'll be there if it comes down to it.


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## devo (10/9/08)

Sammus said:


> you can't be serious? blaming video games for this too? I reckon it's the other way round; kids that are prone to causing trouble are attracted to violence (ie the games), not the other way round.



I wasn't just referring to video games Sammus!


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## devo (10/9/08)

quantocks said:


> I'll take a stab in the dark and say you're either a sucessful troll or just another do-gooder that also would support a glass ban.
> 
> Just because I spent my youth playing Doom, I've never felt the urge to turn up at a bar with a rocket launcher and blow everyone down in my wake.



troll aye?!....yet another peanut to completely miss my point. Maybe spending all that time doom has affected you after all?!


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## TidalPete (10/9/08)

quantocks said:


> if they aren't picking up their schooner glass to cut someone with, it'll be a knife, gun, whatever. but it'll be there if it comes down to it.



So part of the answer (I emphasise '*PART*') is to close all places with a liquor license at 12 midnight --- no exceptions. :super: 

A good way to start? Too right!

I also agree with the thoughts of Bonj in a way  ---- build lots more prisons & give proper sentencing to these low-lives. :super: 
Too many bleeding hearts in this country. What happened to HTFU? 
TP :beer:


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## quantocks (10/9/08)

devo said:


> Kinda not surprised when you consider that most of the younger drinkers who are now hitting the pub/club scene have been raised on a steady diet of grand theft auto and other violent media. That kind of continual stimuli is just the ticket for molding well balanced juvenile minds especially when it comes to resolving conflict situations . <_<



just to get the full quote in. you blame GTA and other "violent" media. Yet you casually left out the fact that there was violence well before computer games and scary movies. When I play GTA, I can see a clear line between fantasy and reality. But in *any* game or movie I've ever seen, I've never played the character of someone smashing a glass in anothers face or seen someone getting glassed in a film. why? because who could base a game or movie on a drunk idiot glassing people? no one would buy it because it doesn't fit fantasy nor does it fit reality. Playing games or watching violent movies doesn't make me rage, I hate violence as much as the next person but when I'm playing a game that involves running around shooting at people or running them over, it's because it's an escape from this nanny society we live in filled with 'do-gooders' that make everyone elses lives so much more boring to live in.

glass someone? I agree, go to gaol and stay there for a VERY LONG time. We need harsher penalties, but we won't get that with all the bleeding hearts in the nation.


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## Tim (10/9/08)

The simple solution is to make the beer glasses out of safety glass. In the UK all pint glasses shatter when dropped, so you can effectively eliminate them as a weapon. 

While everyone is ranting part of the problem in Australia is also the lack of drinking venues, and th eriddiculous amount of security guards at the limited number of venues. Just look at the UK, where you have so much competition amongst pubs with plenty of places to drink, and no security guards. I have yet to see a fight in a pub since moving here.


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## peas_and_corn (10/9/08)

The ones who want to fight go to Scotland


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## browndog (10/9/08)

Sad to say we live in an era of "it's not my fault" mentality. The lamest of excuses are used to justify the inexcusable and purportrators get a slap on the wrist. Add that to the "I'm gonna sue because I can" mentality and we have a the makings of a pretty shithouse society. Fancy banning kids from doing cartwheels in the playground for fear of being sued if an injury occurs.......


cheers

Browndog


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## Effect (10/9/08)

after watching casino...............................................I always take a pen to a pub! - it's not like they are going to take it off me


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## quantocks (10/9/08)

browndog said:


> Sad to say we live in an era of "it's not my fault" mentality. The lamest of excuses are used to justify the inexcusable and purportrators get a slap on the wrist. Add that to the "I'm gonna sue because I can" mentality and we have a the makings of a pretty shithouse society. Fancy banning kids from doing cartwheels in the playground for fear of being sued if an injury occurs.......
> 
> 
> cheers
> ...



they banned Santa from a few shopping centres at Christmas for fear of upsetting the religious nutjobs. Also for saying "Ho Ho Ho" because it might be thought he was talking about African American prostitutes. So it's no surprise that they ban children from doing cartwheels.

They should just give us all Cityrail issued paper cups to sip our beer from and be done with it. The biggest injury anyone would get would be a papercut.


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## TidalPete (10/9/08)

browndog said:


> Sad to say we live in an era of "it's not my fault" mentality. The lamest of excuses are used to justify the inexcusable and purportrators get a slap on the wrist. Add that to the "I'm gonna sue because I can" mentality and we have a the makings of a pretty shithouse society. Fancy banning kids from doing cartwheels in the playground for fear of being sued if an injury occurs.......
> 
> 
> cheers
> ...



+1

TP :beer:


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## devo (10/9/08)

quantocks said:


> just to get the full quote in. you blame GTA and other "violent" media. Yet you casually left out the fact that there was violence well before computer games and scary movies. When I play GTA, I can see a clear line between fantasy and reality. But in *any* game or movie I've ever seen, I've never played the character of someone smashing a glass in anothers face or seen someone getting glassed in a film. why? because who could base a game or movie on a drunk idiot glassing people? no one would buy it because it doesn't fit fantasy nor does it fit reality. Playing games or watching violent movies doesn't make me rage, I hate violence as much as the next person but when I'm playing a game that involves running around shooting at people or running them over, it's because it's an escape from this nanny society we live in filled with 'do-gooders' that make everyone elses lives so much more boring to live in.
> 
> glass someone? I agree, go to gaol and stay there for a VERY LONG time. We need harsher penalties, but we won't get that with all the bleeding hearts in the nation.



all that fapping and still missing my point :lol:


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## quantocks (10/9/08)

devo said:


> all that fapping and still missing my point :lol:



I'd be surprised if you actually have a valid point, you keep mentioning how two of us have completely missed it yet failed to actually define what you meant other than video games and violent media are bad for the drunken youth of today.


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## PostModern (10/9/08)

I'm beginning to think he has a point he didn't post.


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## smudge (10/9/08)

To go a bit off topic from some of the other off topic comments.....

Recently my 78 year old Mum (having just finished a cryptic crossword in record time!), was reading about the abortion
debate reported in the VIC papers. She had also just finished a glass of one of my brews.

She looked over her glasses at me and said "This abortion bill. I'd vote for it if they can find a way to make it retrospective."

Sort of back on topic...

Glassing is the result of two things - too much alcohol and no respect. The first you can try to control. Smaller glasses, shorter
opening hours, only able to buy two drinks at a time, more security etc etc. (All doomed to failure as far as I am concerned)

You can't legislate respect. Bring in a mandatory life sentence for glassing and it wont drop the incidences at all.

I can't see any magic bullet, but a bit more of "how are YOU going?" instead of "look at ME!!!" would be a good start.

Cheers,
smudge


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## devo (10/9/08)

honestly I can't be bothered when my original post pretty much is self explanatory. I'd rather keep any expanded discussions on brewing related matters.


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## buttersd70 (10/9/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> The ones who want to fight go to Scotland



Or Liverpool. Or Newcastle. Or anywhere in Yorkshire (and particularly in Bradford  ). 



> I've never played the character of someone smashing a glass in anothers face _or seen someone getting glassed in a film_. why? because who could base a game or movie on a drunk idiot glassing people? no one would buy it because it doesn't fit fantasy nor does it fit reality.



Best scene in "Trainspotting". Begbie! :lol:


----------



## Tim (10/9/08)

I'm suprised nobody has said the name "Greg Bird" yet!


----------



## quantocks (10/9/08)

Tim said:


> I'm suprised nobody has said the name "Greg Bird" yet!




Millet Man mentioned it one page back 





without trying to turn this thread into a flame war against each other which is pointless, I found this rather interesting:



> In the United Kingdom, there are more than 5,000 glassing attacks each year.[1] In 2000, following a series a glassing attacks in Manchester, Greater Manchester Police and the Manchester Evening News launched a campaign Safe Glass Safe City promoting the use of toughened glass in pubs and clubs to prevent such attacks.[2]



and then look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toughened_glass

toughened glass = a lot of $$$$$

plastic = hardly anything

what would the re-usability of plastic glasses be? could they continually be rewashed and reused or would they have a shorter lifespan than glass?


----------



## Boozy the clown (10/9/08)

wabster said:


> Ok so I'm getting on in years, but when I was a kid in the 60's and early 70's in rural NSW if you screwed up you got a right arse kicking from the local police sergeant, and when your friends and family found out you felt this thing called "shame"  It was called "anti-social behaviour", and it was YOUR fault if you did it.



"Yeah, good-o. When you did the wrong thing you literally got your arse kicked, real police powers"



wabster said:


> Added to this is the agenda of the Police, wanting both more power and resources, a major issue here in the state of political incompetence bordering on corruption, and the hysteria press trying to sell copy by sensationalising all this stuff and you have a real mess. I am fed up with having to see public policy constantly working with the lowest common denominator.



"Right so if the police want some of those powers back it's a bad thing???" 

Ha ha, I love it when people whinge about bloody cops wanting more funding. I happen to know someone who works inner Sydney poolice, their two stations leak so bad when there is a decent rain they have to shut rooms off until the water dries up so they don't get electrocuted. One of the stations they had to totally shut down and evacuate. Was just a heavy rain as well, not a cyclone!


----------



## Henno (10/9/08)

In the movie already mentioned in here Bowling for Columbine, I seem to remember Chris Rock saying something about the guns not being the problem that it was actually the bullets. Make the bullets a thousand dollars each and then nobody can afford to shoot anybody. I think we could do the same with glasses. Have heaps of glasses in the pubs but make the beer a thousand dollars a glass. Problem solved. 

Of course the obvious solution is to keep the glasses but have loaded uzis and .357 magnums on every table. No more glassing at all I reckon.

For god's sake fellas, next time there is a problem like this just come to me first!

My next trick will be to solve inflation by printing more money. That one should have been obvious as well.


----------



## Brewtus (10/9/08)

This is the other reason I avoid drinking anywhere with plastic 'glasses' (or too many - read 'one thug'- bouncers).

It probably has more to do with peer acceptance of the behavior than anything else. If your mates think it is OK or admirable to resort to glassing someone, than people will do it regardless of the law. Do out law bikies worry about the law when deciding how to act in front of their gang? If all your mates thought it was a sad, low and gutless act and rejected anyone who did it, then it would only happen as a last resort for self defence.

Dangerous pub fights aren't new put camera phones, video surveillance and mass media using them are. This can start a spiral of bad behavior. How many kids pick fights so their mates can film it and put it on YTube?


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/9/08)

devo said:


> Kinda not surprised when you consider that most of the younger drinkers who are now hitting the pub/club scene have been raised on a steady diet of grand theft auto and other violent media. That kind of continual stimuli is just the ticket for molding well balanced juvenile minds especially when it comes to resolving conflict situations .<_<






Sammus said:


> you can't be serious? blaming video games for this too? I reckon it's the other way round; kids that are prone to causing trouble are attracted to violence (ie the games), not the other way round.






quantocks said:


> I'll take a stab in the dark and say you're either a sucessful troll or just another do-gooder that also would support a glass ban.
> 
> Just because I spent my youth playing Doom, I've never felt the urge to turn up at a bar with a rocket launcher and blow everyone down in my wake.



My guess is if my nephew is anything to go by that video gamers are the last people you'd blame... Lazy little twats never leave their rooms or couches. <_< 

I'd bar 'em for differing reasons.

Warren -


----------



## bonj (11/9/08)

*FLAMESUIT WELL AND TRULY ON*

Devo, you're way off base with the video game argument. Numerous studies (here's an article on the latest one: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80514213432.htm) have shown that violent video games do not increase real world violence. In fact the latest study (already linked) found the exact opposite. Also see a similar study done by our very own Office of Film and Literature Classification. These "violent computer games are the root of all our society's evils" arguments are completely unfounded and total rubbish.

While I'm ranting anyway... mandatory sentencing does not reduce crime. In Queensland, murder attracts a mandatory life sentence (25 years in gaol, and life on parole). Murder rates here are no different from the rest of the country. The same can be said for capital punishment. It has been proven in countless jurisdictions worldwide that it does *not* reduce the crime rate. Our judicial system works on an adversarial system. The whole point of such a system is that the prosecution and defence put forth their arguments based on the legislation and legal precedents, and the sentencing judge decides on a fair(to them) compromise within the range. If you take away the ability for either side to put forth their arguments, you undermine the entire system. 

It's easy for pensioners and retirees to whinge about building more prisons and longer sentences because they don't have to pay for it. I will repeat my last post: Glassing will get you *actual* prison time in Queensland. It is very difficult to argue otherwise. There have been only 2 recent incidents that have not attracted actual time, and both involved single mothers of babies with severe medical conditions... and even then they had to fight to stay out.

I have to say that the current penalty in Queensland for glassing isn't a deterrent for me because I simply would never do such a cowardly act. Knowing that an offender would get actual time as it is, would increasing that time deter them? No. If prison time doesn't deter them in the first place, then neither will longer sentences. If longer sentences isn't for deterrence, then what is it for? To make you feel better? Aww, poor baby.


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## domonsura (11/9/08)

Gaming doesn't cause violence or violent behaviour, or make any of us think it's any more acceptable in real life.. I've been killing people on-line for years and years (just ask Sqyre ) and as far as I'm aware I've never actually killed anyone. I've never glassed anyone either. most of us know where the line is.......

I have however spent years running bars and working behind them and on the door....and I've witnesses some horrific stuff - I've _been _glassed as a patron & an employee. I've also been hit with chairs, & spent more than my fair share of time in Emergency with broken bits. I've also on the other hand been the 'one-thug' bouncer forced to deal with a pub full of f^&$n idiots who've just rocked in tanked from the last place and torn the place apart when we wouldn't serve them......

I'm convinced that the glassing/bar violence thing is very much a socio-economic phenomenon common to feral scum & idiots who's highlight of the weekend would be hurting someone. Normal people don't behave that way, and my experience is that if there isn't a glass, it will be a chair. Or a table or something else. Because when someone is in a state to do something like that, what they do it with is not the concern, it'll be whatever's available to hand. I've even seen someone taken out with a pepper grinder off a table from the restaurant next door...  anything can be a weapon.......it's kind of up to the assailant....we can't go removing things simply because it might become a weapon.

A _proper security person doing their job properly_, watching behaviour and body language will pick a trouble maker and have him long gone before he causes trouble....

My solution?

I don't go ANYWHERE near ANY pub that serves the type of idiot who glasses people. I vote with my wallet. Shame though. They all seem to serve anyone.........

(And I fully support an immediate 6 month prison sentence for people who instigate violence in a licenced establishment).........


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## therook (11/9/08)

It's all bloody John Howards and the Liberals fault....

That's why we should never vote the scum sucking leaches back into power

Rook


----------



## drsmurto (11/9/08)

frogman said:


> I have 2 display shelves and a cupboard half filled with glasses, steins, tobys jugs and the like and I'm afraid that they will attack me.
> 
> I watch them closley but I think I may be missing something.
> 
> ...



Nice!  

Take note SA case swappers. its not me dropping the glass, its the glass jumping out of my hand trying to attack someone. Even little #$%^& ers.



Geoffi said:


> I recently read Errol Flynn's autobiography 'My Wicked Wicked Ways'. He wrote about the frequent brawls that 'Aussie' blokes in the 20s and 30s were engaged in. Utterly alien to my experience, but I'm supposedly living in this ultra-violent age.
> 
> Then there were the razor gangs of the 20s and 30s. The 'Push'. The cocaine gangs. The 'good old days'?
> 
> ...



I recall watching classic John Wayne movies 30s thru to the 70s with every scene in a bar turning to a full blown biff fest, tables and chairs flying, bottles and glasses going every which way. Not exactly a modern idea....... 



buttersd70 said:


> Or Liverpool. Or Newcastle. Or anywhere in Yorkshire (and particularly in Bradford  ).
> 
> Best scene in "Trainspotting". Begbie! :lol:



Always wondered about that scene in the movie. Why? 

Then i moved to Durham for 2 years and went out drinking in Newcastle (upon Tyne) and it all became clear. Especially after a soccer game (inevitably lost) when the toon army really fired up! All dressed in the same colours like a gang trolling the streets, pint in hand


----------



## HoppingMad (11/9/08)

domonsura said:


> I've even seen someone taken out with a pepper grinder off a table from the restaurant next door...  anything can be a weapon.......it's kind of up to the assailant....we can't go removing things simply because it might become a weapon.



Off topic but a mate of mine who worked security at a popular Abbotsford pub once ejected a guy, and he came back with a "No Standing" sign with an 8 foot pole on it! Determined to get back in, he charged at the door with it out like a jousting stick! :lol: They took his legs out from under him, pinned him under his pole and called the cops.

Drunk nutters sure can get creative! 

Hopper.


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## petesbrew (11/9/08)

domonsura said:


> I've even seen someone taken out with a pepper grinder off a table from the restaurant next door...  anything can be a weapon.......it's kind of up to the assailant....we can't go removing things simply because it might become a weapon.



All I can think of is some bogan holding a 3 foot pepper grinder upto someone's eyes, grinding pepper furiously, yelling "take this ya bastard!".


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## domonsura (11/9/08)

petesbrew said:


> All I can think of is some bogan holding a 3 foot pepper grinder upto someone's eyes, grinding pepper furiously, yelling "take this ya bastard!".



:lol:

Nah, it was a big flap of skin opened up, 60 odd stitches, concussion and a scar that hair will never grow on again. He reckons it makes him look tough....... :huh: I reckon it makes him look slow......:lol:

I did tell him to watch him...but he was distracted..which brings me to the most dangerous thing you could possibly have in a bar. Hot girls. BAN THEM. THEY cause ALL the trouble.........(unless you're in a gay bar I'm guessing)


----------



## newguy (11/9/08)

Bonj said:


> *FLAMESUIT WELL AND TRULY ON*



No need.  

I agree with you Bonj, but when it comes to reducing crime I'm reminded of something I read long ago regarding predation...In the animal kingdom the only sure way to avoid being eaten is to taste bad. In a similar vein, the only sure fire way to reduce violent crime is to put some doubt into the "tough's" mind regarding his chances of not being injured himself when he attacks his victim.

The solution is obvious: I suggest someone attempt to splice porcupine DNA into a person. 

Now that I think about it, why not a spitting cobra too?

All kidding aside, it's human nature for young testosterone fuelled males to fight for the attention of females. Adding alcohol makes it a virtual certainty. If banning glasses from some establishments (not all) removes a convenient weapon, so be it. Reminds me of a bar called "The Zoo" in a small community in northern Saskatchewan. The bar is stainless steel - which makes it easy to hose off the blood and puke every night. The tables and chairs in the bar are concrete - which prevents them from being thrown, broken, or burned. It uses plastic cups too. Despite these safety measures, it still isn't a very safe place. <_<


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## Steve (11/9/08)

TidalPete said:


> It all boils down to the lack of parental control over the last couple of generations & the kids mimicking their (Lowlife) parents actions.



Couldn't agree more.
Cheers
Steve


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## buttersd70 (11/9/08)

domonsura said:


> I'm convinced that the glassing/bar violence thing is very much a socio-economic phenomenon common to feral scum & idiots who's highlight of the weekend would be hurting someone.
> .........
> I don't go ANYWHERE near ANY pub that serves the type of idiot who glasses people. I vote with my wallet. Shame though. They all seem to serve anyone.........



Back in the day, that would be absolutely right, 100%. I've noticed something interesting over the past few years, though, and it seems to me that more and more of the violence is actually being perpertrated by bored middle class wannabe tough guys, and a lot of the 'rougher' establishments within the lower socioeconmic fringes have tamed down a lot. Over the course of the last 10 years or so, I've only had a few encounters, and most of them were in more 'affluent' places, from wannabes sucking down coronas with lemon.  And as a little fella, I'm invariably the bloody target, even if I'm just sitting quietly in the corner minding my own business.


----------



## newguy (11/9/08)

buttersd70 said:


> And as a little fella, I'm invariably the bloody target, even if I'm just sitting quietly in the corner minding my own business.



The big guys get it too. A friend of mine who is 6'10" (2.08m+) was always the first one to be picked on by the idiot drunk looking to prove how tough he was by picking a fight with the tallest guy around. Pretty much everyone to try regretted it, though. He had a lot of practice beating morons up.


----------



## quantocks (11/9/08)

this is what we need:



unbreakable pint glass from the UK.


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## alowen474 (11/9/08)

I think the problem is that it has a quick easy name and now it is popular. If it had a name like 'attacked with the top of a broken glass by an assailant', then I think the problem would disappear.


----------



## TidalPete (11/9/08)

beerforal said:


> I think the problem is that it has a quick easy name and now it is popular. If it had a name like 'attacked with the top of a broken glass by an assailant', then I think the problem would disappear.



beerforal,
Read my Post 38 more closely.

What we need is zero tolerence combined with maximum sentencing in all aspects of the criminal code.
Too many wishy-washy judges & magistrates in our system who may well be being instructed by those in power that because of lack of funding for more prisons, etc
to cut their sentencing rates (And time of incarcerations) down.
Ever wondered why criminals rarely get the maximum sentence? Not enough funds for more jails combined with the political interference of too many do-gooders\bleeding heart votes that polititions need to stay in power\win elections.

And Bonj, 
As for pensioners & the like just rabbiting on & not having to pay for all this I would like to remind you that we have (In our working lives) paid for all\most of your education, health, protection (Where would have this country have been at the start of WW2 without the funding of those who had just retired? Good chance that we would all be on a rice diet by now),police, & all the infrastructure that a democratic country provides to it's citizens.
WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.  A shame that you did not take this into account.  

This rant(?) is definitely over. :icon_cheers: 
TP :beer:

PS --- Don't claim to know it all. This is just my slant on things.


----------



## bonj (11/9/08)

TidalPete said:


> What we need is zero tolerence combined with maximum sentencing in all aspects of the criminal code.


Zero Tolerance: Starving? Have no money? Stole a loaf of bread? Tough luck... it's a lovely trip to New South Wales for you.
These are PEOPLE we're talking about. Some with extenuating circumstances that lead them to commit crimes. Zero Tolerance makes no distinction between stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family, and stealing a loaf of bread to vandalise a car with. It is barbaric and completely reprehensible to fail to consider each individual case's circumstances. I'm not saying there are any circumstances where glassing someone in the face is tolerated, but you still have to take each individual's circumstances into account on sentencing. Take my example in my post above: It would be a far worse crime for the state to take a seriously ill baby's mother away. There are other ways to punish people than putting them in prison. Some may argue better ways. I know I would rather someone perform a punishment that actually benefits the community, than one that merely costs the community like imprisonment. 


> Too many wishy-washy judges & magistrates in our system who may well be being instructed by those in power that because of lack of funding for more prisons, etc
> to cut their sentencing rates (And time of incarcerations) down.


Judges and magistrates interpret legislation and make decisions based on the legislation and legal precedents. If you want longer sentences, they are not the people to attack. They are just doing their jobs. Take it up with your local member. It is parliament that creates law. Who are these wishy washy magistrates and judges of whom you speak? And which are the decisions that you're unhappy with? I want names and cases. You must know them to be able to make such comments. 


> Ever wondered why criminals rarely get the maximum sentence? Not enough funds for more jails combined with the political interference of too many do-gooders\bleeding heart votes that polititions need to stay in power\win elections.


People rarely get the maximum sentence because rarely do people offend so heinously as to attract the maximum sentence. Queensland is regarded as being tougher in sentencing that most other states. Does it reduce the crime rate in comparison?

I love all the "do-gooder" bashing.... aren't they the ones you want in pubs? They're the least likely to be causing all the problems we're talking about.


> And Bonj,
> As for pensioners & the like just rabbiting on & not having to pay for all this I would like to remind you that we have (In our working lives) paid for all\most of your education, health, protection (Where would have this country have been at the start of WW2 without the funding of those who had just retired? Good chance that we would all be on a rice diet by now),police, & all the infrastructure that a democratic country provides to it's citizens.


Why is it that they become so vocal when they no longer have to pay taxes? Because they no longer have to worry about the repercussions in the next government budget?


> WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.  A shame that you did not take this into account.


One may make the same argument back to you. The older generations must take part of the responsibility for steering the ship to its current location...



> PS --- Don't claim to know it all. This is just my slant on things.


And everyone is entitled to their opinions. Just as I'm entitled to believe you're wrong.
I guess I'm one of those bleeding hearts you complain so much about.


----------



## TidalPete (11/9/08)

Bonj said:


> Zero Tolerance: Starving? Have no money? Stole a loaf of bread? Tough luck... it's a lovely trip to New South Wales for you.
> These are PEOPLE we're talking about. Some with extenuating circumstances that lead them to commit crimes. Zero Tolerance makes no distinction between stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family, and stealing a loaf of bread to vandalise a car with. It is barbaric and completely reprehensible to fail to consider each individual case's circumstances. I'm not saying there are any circumstances where glassing someone in the face is tolerated, but you still have to take each individual's circumstances into account on sentencing. Take my example in my post above: It would be a far worse crime for the state to take a seriously ill baby's mother away. There are other ways to punish people than putting them in prison. Some may argue better ways. I know I would rather someone perform a punishment that actually benefits the community, than one that merely costs the community like imprisonment.
> 
> Judges and magistrates interpret legislation and make decisions based on the legislation and legal precedents. If you want longer sentences, they are not the people to attack. They are just doing their jobs. Take it up with your local member. It is parliament that creates law. Who are these wishy washy magistrates and judges of whom you speak? And which are the decisions that you're unhappy with? I want names and cases. You must know them to be able to make such comments.
> ...







> it's a lovely trip to New South Wales for you.


 I hope not Bonj as NSW is the place you could not get out of fast enough


> As for pensioners & the like just rabbiting on & not having to pay for all this I would like to remind you that we have (In our working lives) paid for all\most of your education, health, protection (Where would have this country have been at the start of WW2 without the funding of those who had just retired? Good chance that we would all be on a rice diet by now),police, & all the infrastructure that a democratic country provides to it's citizens.
> WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. A shame that you did not take this into account


As for the rest of your sad interpretation *YOU ARE*, as you say, a bloody bleeding heart





& I feel sorry for you. 
Full stop.

TP :beer:


----------



## bonj (11/9/08)

TidalPete said:


> I hope not Bonj as NSW is the place you could not get out of fast enough


So you agree that punishment would be too harsh.


> As for the rest of your sad interpretation *YOU ARE*, as you say, a bloody bleeding heart
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The fact that I actually care about people I have never met, is *not* an insult to me.


----------



## bradsbrew (11/9/08)

Bloody hell I didnt see this topic on Inciders poll.

IMO unreasonable violent acts should be dealt with to the maximum penalty. And any person that has contributed to the growth of this GREAT nation should be respected for their contribution and not be cast aside once they no longer pay taxes. WE TREAT REFUGEES BETTER THAN WE TREAT OUR PENSIONERS. I am not saying that we should not help people to build a new life in our great nation but we should support the people have help build this great nation.
IMO rules, regulations and political correctness is letting our younger generation down- eg. a parent cannot smack (I say smack not flog) their child for cracking a tantrum and disrespecting without fear of legal action, yet when that same child gets to say 14 and attacks a pensioner whilst wagging school the parent is to blame.


----------



## peas_and_corn (11/9/08)

Look, they will come up, so I might as well get them out of the way.

"dude, you're just like Hitler"

"There's some total censorship going on here"

"Political correctenss gone mad!!!"

"I saw this story on ACA"


----------



## InCider (11/9/08)

This thread has gone too 'Derryn Hinch' and 'John Laws'.

Drink at home and be responsible for yourselves instead of pontificating about other people you self righteous bastards.

Get a sheep and stay home.

Baa,

InCider.


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## ham2k (11/9/08)

bradsbrew said:


> WE TREAT REFUGEES BETTER THAN WE TREAT OUR PENSIONERS.



http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2191987.htm

hoax.


----------



## PostModern (11/9/08)

InCider said:


> This thread has gone too 'Derryn Hinch' and 'John Laws'.
> 
> Drink at home and be responsible for yourselves instead of pontificating about other people you self righteous bastards.
> 
> ...



It's a political discussion. Debate is what makes democracy and it doesn't start in parliament.


----------



## bradsbrew (11/9/08)

ham2k said:


> http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s2191987.htm
> 
> hoax.



So youre saying that its a hoax that some sectors of the community dont get more benefits such as food vouchers and half price cab fairs when the retired widowed pensioner doesnt. Not to mention the hard working person that has retired and has to sell their house to fund a spot in a home because they are ill.
What was this post about again :unsure:


----------



## peas_and_corn (11/9/08)

the spaghetti monster.


----------



## ham2k (11/9/08)

bradsbrew said:


> So youre saying that its a hoax that some sectors of the community dont get more benefits such as food vouchers and half price cab fairs when the retired widowed pensioner doesnt.



it's a hoax until you do more than capitalise a statement to make it true.



bradsbrew said:


> Not to mention the hard working person that has retired and has to sell their house to fund a spot in a home because they are ill.



Home ownership is not a right. You build asset wealth for a rainy day.



bradsbrew said:


> What was this post about again :unsure:



Too right. This is getting silly.


----------



## quantocks (11/9/08)

bradsbrew said:


> Bloody hell I didnt see this topic on Inciders poll.
> 
> IMO unreasonable violent acts should be dealt with to the maximum penalty. And any person that has contributed to the growth of this GREAT nation should be respected for their contribution and not be cast aside once they no longer pay taxes. WE TREAT REFUGEES BETTER THAN WE TREAT OUR PENSIONERS. I am not saying that we should not help people to build a new life in our great nation but we should support the people have help build this great nation.
> IMO rules, regulations and political correctness is letting our younger generation down- eg. a parent cannot smack (I say smack not flog) their child for cracking a tantrum and disrespecting without fear of legal action, yet when that same child gets to say 14 and attacks a pensioner whilst wagging school the parent is to blame.



it all comes down to what I've honestly always believed. We should look after ourselves before we try and look after everyone else. 



> A drinking glass or bottle was the weapon used in 994 assaults across the state last year



of that 411 were in Wollongong, Newcastle or elsewhere in NSW other than Sydney. 



> James Arvanitakis, a cultural researcher at the University of Western Sydney, said the glassing statistics supported the theory of a rise in some violence-specific offences linked to time poverty, competitiveness and stress.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/glassi...4472834838.html


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## drsmurto (11/9/08)

TidalPete said:


> beerforal,
> Read my Post 38 more closely.
> 
> What we need is zero tolerence combined with maximum sentencing in all aspects of the criminal code.
> ...



TP, to say you paid for my education is downright insulting? 7 years after finishing uni i finally paid of my uni debt and to do so had to pay 8% more tax during that time. And i got thru when 4 years cost you the tiny sum of $10K (thats just the HECS, not the running costs). The students that followed me wont be so lucky, this affects our ability to get mortgages, car loans etc. My little brother has a debt 3 times that and will be close to 40 by the time he pays it off.

Paid for my education? 

I stacked shelves (at night) and pumped petrol (on weekends) for 4 years in addition to studying. 

I dont recall receiving a 'brass razoo' from you TP.


----------



## Daniel.lear (11/9/08)

ham2k said:


> Too right. This is getting silly.



+ 1 all becoming completely out of context


I say Glass Him!!!






VVVTIC of course... :icon_cheers:


----------



## TidalPete (11/9/08)

DrSmurto said:


> TP, to say you paid for my education is downright insulting? 7 years after finishing uni i finally paid of my uni debt and to do so had to pay 8% more tax during that time. And i got thru when 4 years cost you the tiny sum of $10K (thats just the HECS, not the running costs). The students that followed me wont be so lucky, this affects our ability to get mortgages, car loans etc. My little brother has a debt 3 times that and will be close to 40 by the time he pays it off.
> 
> Paid for my education?
> 
> ...



The 'brass razoo' that you received from me & all other taxpayers of my generation was spent at the whim of the government in power at the time so don't come the raw prawn with me sunshine. :angry: 

I spent 5 years on an apprenticeship wage at starvation levels with *none *of the benefits that you now get from the government when doing a university course.
I also stacked shelves at Coles to keep my young family going in the early years of my marriage & did all the odd jobs I could find to make things better for them so get over it.


In my day university education was free to all so don't try to put it on to us poor bastards who never voted for the government who introduced university fees in the first place.
I am very proud of my three sons, two of whom got through university (And are now very successful) in spite of the fact that I could not afford to pay for their university education (Just like you they did part time work also) & the other who is completing an advanced course in public relations at his own expense (I suppose he could teach me a few things there?  )
They (And countless others) are not crying about paying off their Uni debt.

TP :beer:


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## Tony (11/9/08)

domonsura said:


> I'm convinced that the glassing/bar violence thing is very much a socio-economic phenomenon common to feral scum & idiots who's highlight of the weekend would be hurting someone. Normal people don't behave that way, and my experience is that if there isn't a glass, it will be a chair. Or a table or something else. Because when someone is in a state to do something like that, what they do it with is not the concern, it'll be whatever's available to hand. I've even seen someone taken out with a pepper grinder off a table from the restaurant next door...  anything can be a weapon.......it's kind of up to the assailant....we can't go removing things simply because it might become a weapon.



100% aggree. Its almost become the "fashionable" crime and the dickheads that will do it will not think about jail time or punishment of any sort if they are full of drugs or piss while rubbing a broken schooner glass in your face.

YEars back when Johny thought spending millions on changing gun laws and taking guns used for sporting purposes from law abiding citizens like me with licences ect (in stead of spending the money on education and prevention) would stop dickheads going nuts and shooting people (martin Bryant moron), i was heavily involved with the SSAA (Sporting Shooters Asociation of Australia) and attended many protests ect.

For all the money spent they got around 4% of all the Semi Auto and pump action weapons imported into the country (legaly that they know of) in the last 20 years.

What a waste. For no gain. I could still go the the pub and buy a Colt 1911 .45 auto for the right price from the right person. But i wouldnt and i didnt and never will...... as well as 99.999% of people, so the laws were pointless for money spent.

My point is.......... massive knee jerk reaction to sensationalist journalism and small minority "goody goody" groups calling for actions that penalise the good people who will never do the crime, but solve none of the problems solve nothing!

There are so many root causes of the problems in society that cause phenonenoms like this. 

Drugs like ice ect, excessive alcahol consumption, Social (how did these people doing this grow up???) issues, media blowups that make it as i said before..... fashionable among the dickheads out there that will do this sort of thing. Christ..... there are a million nasty dark aspects of society that you could blame on this. What i see from my perspective and its a very very small %age of people out there do this thank god but the big question is............... is taking glasses away from the 99.999% of drinkers that are enjoying themselves, going to stop the one fool who will?

Would Martin Bryant have still found a gun? A sickening compareson i know but the violance is not far off the mark in my book

I also see a lack of fear from people that may do this.... Its terafying to think it happens so often. This is what keeps me from pubs..... along with the 50c schooners at home 

The local pub up from my place renently had a female police officer kicked and injured....... i wont go there now..... people that will kick lady cops in the head will glass you too, without a thought.

scarry :huh: 



therook said:


> It's all bloody John Howards and the Liberals fault....
> 
> That's why we should never vote the scum sucking leaches back into power
> 
> Rook



read above


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## Insight (11/9/08)

DrSmurto said:


> TP, to say you paid for my education is downright insulting? 7 years after finishing uni i finally paid of my uni debt and to do so had to pay 8% more tax during that time. And i got thru when 4 years cost you the tiny sum of $10K (thats just the HECS, not the running costs). The students that followed me wont be so lucky, this affects our ability to get mortgages, car loans etc. My little brother has a debt 3 times that and will be close to 40 by the time he pays it off.
> 
> Paid for my education?
> 
> ...



This is getting quite OT now, but its worth a quick comment. The university education you (and I many moons ago) received Dr Smurto was heavily subsidised by the Australian taxpayer. Since you only paid $10k for your 4 years at uni, I presume you (like me) were eligible for a commonwealth supported place (CSP). If you take a look at the costs for a full fee paying international student, or a domestic student not eligible for a CSP you will find their bill is 4-5 times yours. eg. Computer Science at Monash this year is $6500 vs $25000. The government is making up the shortfall for CSPs.

You (like me) may also have been eligible for the Ausstudy allowance, and rent assistance. All taxpayer funded. It wasn't a nice time at uni having to do crappy jobs just to make ends meet, but I sure as hell wouldn't be where I am today without it.


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## Cube (11/9/08)

Darwinism takes care of itself.

Don't breed with fucken idiots, asshats or those not like you.... the weak, stupid, and plain old dumb ass will be bread out.



............ and the future is good. 

MMMKKAAYYYYY


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## HoppingMad (11/9/08)

Bonj said:


> Zero Tolerance makes no distinction between stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family, and stealing a loaf of bread to vandalise a car with.



Ummm... I know this has nothing to do with glassing, but how do you vandalise a car with a loaf of bread? :blink: 

Maybe I need another drink to figure that one out.

Hopper.


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## Adamt (11/9/08)

Well, you wait for it to go (very) stale - or freeze it - and throw it through the window.

Or... you do the old Axel Foley trick and jam it up the exhaust pipe 

No drinks required.


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## quantocks (11/9/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Ummm... I know this has nothing to do with glassing, but how do you vandalise a car with a loaf of bread? :blink:
> 
> Maybe I need another drink to figure that one out.
> 
> Hopper.



one is stealing to stop themselves and their family from dying of hunger and the other is stealing because they are a lazy, worthless, lying incredibly moral-less piece of crap trying to fuel a heroin addiction.


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## reviled (12/9/08)

mossyrocks said:


> A friend of mine was glassed recently at a very good beer lounge in Brisbane by a regular on this forum.



Is this for real??? Who on here would do such a thing? :angry:


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## Dave86 (12/9/08)

Cube said:


> Darwinism takes care of itself.
> 
> Don't breed with fucken idiots, asshats or those not like you.... the weak, stupid, and plain old dumb ass will be bread out.
> 
> ...



Seen the movie Idiocracy? The humour is a bit hit and miss, the underlying message is pretty bloody scary  

To drag this thread further OT, seeing it has mutated in a opinion venting arena, why is everyone so worked up about free uni? Sure, it'd be great to finish uni without a HECS debt, but it doesn't really bother me. I'm about to finish pharmacy, which is the highest bracket for HECS fees but getting this degree in Australia still has to be one of the cheapest places on earth to do it, or any other uni degree.

My parents have some business friends/partners in the states and their son did pharmacy and the debt ran into six figures. I reckon as much as we might bitch and moan, we've still got it pretty good here compared to most people


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## mossyrocks (12/9/08)

Sorry guys, I'll add some lightheartedness to this and probably a bit off topic ....

Four Yorkshiremen Sketch

Monty Python

Four well-dressed men sitting together at a vacation resort.

Michael Palin: Ahh.. Very passable, this, very passable.

Graham Chapman: Nothing like a good glass of Chateau de Chassilier wine, ay Gessiah?

Terry Gilliam: You're right there Obediah.

Eric Idle: Who'd a thought thirty years ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Chateau de Chassilier wine?

MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.

GC: A cup ' COLD tea.

EI: Without milk or sugar.

TG: OR tea!

MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.

EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.

GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.

TG: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.

MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness."

EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.

GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!

TG: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!

MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.

EI: Well when I say "house" it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.

GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!

TG: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.

MP: Cardboard box?

TG: Aye.

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, out Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TG: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..

Cheers


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/9/08)

Still one of the funniest sketches around..


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## HoppingMad (12/9/08)

Adamt said:


> Well, you wait for it to go (very) stale - or freeze it - and throw it through the window.
> 
> Or... you do the old Axel Foley trick and jam it up the exhaust pipe
> 
> No drinks required.



Hahaaa! :lol:


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## tk75 (12/9/08)

Wow, this is certainly a hot topic and feel/want that I may as well add my 2 cents...
I'm not going to go through and quote all the comments made here as there are some very valid and some not so valid comments made by others and soo...
1. Video games, media, etc. have nothing to do with creating violence! IT'S FANTASY!! If the person playing/watching particular media can't destinguish between fantasy and reality then banning/censoring such things won't make a squat of difference.
2. Banning glassware will NOT prevent a mentally incapacitated F$#KWIT from using any such available item being used as a potential weapon! A weapon is ANY such item which can/may be potentailly used to create harm to another person(A shoe can be used to beat someone senseless!!)
3. Governments(not specifically towards Brumby  ) need to wake up to themselves and stop waisting money of F#$KEN Hummers, and inject funds into proper areas, such as more police presence in numbers on the streets!

As far as Magistrates and law courts are concerned, if a defendant has no care in their apperance(ripped jeans, unshaven, etc.) while presenting themselves before the courts then surely they have no care(remorse) in relation to whatever crime has been committed by such person. I have seen time and time again people present themselves in such a fashion and the magistrate issue nothing more a slap on the wrist, then only to see the defendant outside court laughing and joking about how easy they 'got away with it'!!

And of course parents need to have some accountability regarding their childs actions...however this may not apply in every case, I admit that I was a bit of a shit of a kid(petty crime, never by any means ever physically hurt anyone!! Oh, except that bloke that looked at my girlfriend(kidding  )) and both my parents are upstanding members of the community, law abiding and showed me and my siblings nothing but love and devotion - I will say though that those days are long gone as I have a respect for not only life and other people but their belongings too, call it maturity?? (Ah crap, now I sound like my parents :lol: )

Solution: NEUTER ALL UNREMORSEFULL F#$KWITS AND DICKHEADS!! :super:


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## reviled (12/9/08)

I struggle to drink beer out of a plastic cup, I would probably walk away if someone gave me one at a pub...

I encountered one the other night, went and saw Disturbed at the Vector arena (free ticket), and was so disappointed as the only three beers they had were crappy as Aussie beers for a start, Crown lager, Pure Blonde, and Cascade Light?!?! Yet then they proceed to open the nice cold glass bottle, and pour the contents into a plastic cup?!?! Like, WTF?!?!?! 

Result = Shitty beer tasted even worse and warmed up asap  

What I couldnt get over is the fact that its a NZ stadium, in Auckland, NZ, yet they only sell Australian beer <_< 

As a result of this, I now hate Vector!


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## Adamt (12/9/08)

reviled: Don't forget those bloody youngens and their rock and heavy metal music turning them into violent killers. <_<


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## afromaiko (12/9/08)

Well, I feel sorry for the elephants.


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## reviled (12/9/08)

Adamt said:


> reviled: Don't forget those bloody youngens and their rock and heavy metal music turning them into violent killers. <_<



I happen to be one of those youngens (well at least I used to be, not sure if im still classed as one?). But I for one have not ever started any trouble at a concert (not to mention the fact the last fight I was in was over 12 years ago)...

In fact, ive also found that Rock/Heavy Metal concerts can be some of the friendliest concerts out there... I went and saw Pantera at a tender age of 14 by myself, and was well taken care of by all of the rockers and death metallers, it was a choice night :lol:


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## warrenlw63 (12/9/08)

Bit sad that this thread could garner so much interest yet somebody on another thread asks why he gets low efficiency with Weyermann Pils malt and torrified wheat in equal amounts and gets nary a reply.  

This is becoming less of a homebrewing forum and more of a soapbox for one-upmanship type rants. h34r: 

Warren -


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## jbirbeck (12/9/08)

maltaddict said:


> Solution: NEUTER ALL UNREMORSEFULL F#$KWITS AND DICKHEADS!! :super:




When the revolution comes...


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/9/08)

I do maint work inside jails...

I can tell you that even if you take EVERYTHING away from them, they still manage to find a way to make weapons,contraband or smuggle....

Those guys could turn fresh air into a weapon


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## DiscoStu (12/9/08)

quantocks said:


> They should just give us all Cityrail issued paper cups to sip our beer from and be done with it. The biggest injury anyone would get would be a papercut.



Cityrail cups would leak like a sieve and deliver flat, late poor tasting beer not matter how good the product was that went into the cup originally.


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## bradsbrew (12/9/08)

DiscoStu said:


> Cityrail cups would leak like a sieve and deliver flat, late poor tasting beer not matter how good the product was that went into the cup originally.



And be covered in graffitti. Which brings me to how there is talk of banning aerosol paint to stop graffitti. :lol: As if


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## Muggus (12/9/08)

mossyrocks said:


> Sorry guys, I'll add some lightheartedness to this and probably a bit off topic ....
> 
> Four Yorkshiremen Sketch
> 
> ...


Hahaha I needed a good laugh! Thanks Mossy, that made my day...even reading it makes me laugh!


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## peas_and_corn (12/9/08)

reviled said:


> I happen to be one of those youngens (well at least I used to be, not sure if im still classed as one?). But I for one have not ever started any trouble at a concert (not to mention the fact the last fight I was in was over 12 years ago)...
> 
> In fact, ive also found that Rock/Heavy Metal concerts can be some of the friendliest concerts out there... I went and saw Pantera at a tender age of 14 by myself, and was well taken care of by all of the rockers and death metallers, it was a choice night :lol:



Adam IS an Opeth fan...


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