# No Chill In A Fermenter



## Vanoontour (4/11/11)

Is it possible to no chill in a fermenter? Pour the hot wort into the FV and wrap glad wrap over the lid? I have sterilised the FV and was wondering if this could work? Once cooled give it a good stir with a sterile spoon and pitch yeast?

Thoughts?

Dan


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## kelbygreen (4/11/11)

I have done that and I have just left it in the pot and put glad wrap over that then put the lid on. Although I prob wouldnt do it if using a ball valve or if you did clean and sanitise the outlet well before draining.


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## manticle (4/11/11)

It's possibly going to work 8 times out of ten.

To my mind, no chill is great because it works every time by eliminating certain risks. Squeezing the air out helps with that. The only time I have had infections in no-chill cubes is when they haven't sealed properly.

Give it a go - will probably work but be prepared if it doesn't and don't blame the concept of no chill for any failures.

For a cost of about $20 or less (to buy a cube), I'm not sure why anyone would need to 'experiment' with a very simple method that works well as it stands but it's not my beer.

People no chill/slow chill in their brew kettle with success.


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## hirns (4/11/11)

With no chill the idea is to purge as much air as possible, put the lid on the cube and the invert it so that the heat santisizes everything in contact with the brew. When the brew cools it forms a vacuum. If I had a lid for the fermenter without the airlock hole I might try it, but I'd still be worried about head space air without a blanket of Co2 and no vacuum.

Manticle Beat me.

Hirns


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## Vanoontour (4/11/11)

Might have needed to be clearer and perhaps no chill might not be the correct term. I only want somewhere out of the way to cool it before pitching the yeast. Not store for any length.


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## tavas (4/11/11)

Depends how long you leave it before pitching. You'll only get maybe 1 day with gladwrap on before she'll start self fermenting. I know from experience.

Get a cube. You only need one infected brew to pay for it. Plus you run the risk of infecting your fermenter.


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## Tim F (4/11/11)

I do it every single brew, I can't see any more risks with this method than pouring from cube into a fermenter, as long as you pitch as soon as it gets down to temp? I do whack it in the fermenting fridge to get down faster though.


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## manticle (4/11/11)

vanoontour said:


> Might have needed to be clearer and perhaps no chill might not be the correct term. I only want somewhere out of the way to cool it before pitching the yeast. Not store for any length.



Most of my no-chill brews are pitched the next morning. The ones that aren't are pitched within three days. Same principle applies.

No chill or slow chill are the correct terms and the risks are the same if you do it outside the tried and true method. You won't die though so either go ahead and try or buy a cube,


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## manticle (4/11/11)

Tim F said:


> I do it every single brew, I can't see any more risks with this method than pouring from cube into a fermenter, as long as you pitch as soon as it gets down to temp? I do whack it in the fermenting fridge to get down faster though.



I'd say there's a fair bit more risk leaving a brew for several hours/overnight at pathogen friendly temps when not properly sealed compared with pouring it from one vessel to another over a period of about 1 minute.

I've eliminated that risk by fermenting straight in my NC cubes. If it works for you then great but being aware of the risks is still valuable, even if you accept or welcome them (or decide they are overstated).


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## jbowers (4/11/11)

Tim F said:


> I do it every single brew, I can't see any more risks with this method than pouring from cube into a fermenter, as long as you pitch as soon as it gets down to temp? I do whack it in the fermenting fridge to get down faster though.



There are more risks because you are potentially exposing it to truckloads of airborne bacteria. Through no chilling with minuscule amount of headspace, and through covering every surface of the container with near boiling wort for a significant amount of time, you minimise these risks exponentially. The other thing is, by pouring it once chilled, after carefully siphoning trying to reduce splashing whilst hot, you increase aeration whilst reducing the risk of hot side aeration.

To be honest, I'd give your method a crack if I didn't love the idea of cube hopping so god damned much. There is something deeply exciting about trapping hop flavours/aromas inside an airtight cube with nowhere to go but inside my beer.

Beaten by Manticle. Dammit man, you are just too quick.


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## jbowers (4/11/11)

manticle said:


> I'd say there's a fair bit more risk leaving a brew for several hours/overnight at pathogen friendly temps when not properly sealed compared with pouring it from one vessel to another over a period of about 1 minute.
> 
> I've eliminated that risk by fermenting straight in my NC cubes. If it works for you then great but being aware of the risks is still valuable, even if you accept or welcome them (or decide they are overstated).



Manticle, how do you achieve enough headspace during fermentation using the cube as a fermenter?


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## manticle (4/11/11)

Firstly, if I was using 3787 or 3068 or 1762 or similar krausen monsters in super big beer, I would probably transfer. However in my experience I have found that even with a litre of headspace, the willow jerry cans will only ever leak a weeny bit of krausen with the lids backed off a few turns. I clean the cube and spray with starsan to deter vinegar flies and so on, but it really isn't an issue, beyond a small amount of leaking yeast for maybe 2 or 3 days. I've even filled cubes to the brim with an active starter with similar results.

Maybe it's the shape of the cubes?

I have done similar in FWK cubes with similar results.

These are generally beers between 1050 -1070 OG with yeasts ranging from UK (1099, 1026, 1098, 1968, 1768) to US (1272, US05,).


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## wombil (4/11/11)

I have no chilled in the fermenter with no problems.
I also have a spare fire extinguisher and give the fermenter a good shot of CO2 first to displace air and as the fermenter fills up it is under the blanket of CO2.No worries.
My theory anyway,seems to work.
Last lot I strained through 40 micron filter paper hot.Just have to see how it turns out.


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## Mayor of Mildura (4/11/11)

Manticle you must be the unluckiest dude ever. I feel for you and your infected beer issues. I certainly wouldn't want them. I no chill into a cube and have had no issues. I have also in the past no chilled in the fermenter as the op suggested and have had no issues. This is defiantly something that you have to try for yourself to see if it will be an issue or not. I reckon if you clean and sanitize well you'll at least give yourself a fighting chance.


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## bradsbrew (4/11/11)

I've had one sitting in a fermenter with glad wrap on it since last saturday, its waiting to go into the fermeezer. I have on plenty occasions filled the first 2 cubes and run the last one into a fermenter with glad wrap on it but I pitch the next day, so within 24hrs. This time due to time and laziness I hav't kegged the 2 brews in the fermeezer and the other 4 cubes were full.

But really you can do it no problems if you are going to pitch the next day.


Cheers Brad


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## Flash_DG (4/11/11)

Tim F said:


> I do it every single brew, I can't see any more risks with this method than pouring from cube into a fermenter, as long as you pitch as soon as it gets down to temp? I do whack it in the fermenting fridge to get down faster though.



Same, have no chilled in a blue willow fermenter for the last 2 yrs, the one time i decided to get and use a cube i got an infection. This blue fermenter doesn't have a hole in the lid so I can seal it up good and tight. Can be a real pita to open it up when ready to pitch lol

edit for speeling


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## Tim F (4/11/11)

manticle said:


> I'd say there's a fair bit more risk leaving a brew for several hours/overnight at pathogen friendly temps when not properly sealed compared with pouring it from one vessel to another over a period of about 1 minute.
> 
> I've eliminated that risk by fermenting straight in my NC cubes. If it works for you then great but being aware of the risks is still valuable, even if you accept or welcome them (or decide they are overstated).



I reckon the boiling wort and steam is going to kill anything in the fermenter anyway, I wouldn't leave it there for ages but it seems like minimal risk to do it overnight. To be fair I do sometimes use a 30l cube as a fermenter and screw the lid up while it cools, but I don't squeeze the air out. The last couple of brews though I have used normal fermenters and don't seem to have problems so far. Got nothing against cubing of course and I'm pretty interested in having a shot at cube hopping soon but this has been working pretty well for me the last few years - lets me be pretty lazy and still get a good result


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## manticle (5/11/11)

@MoM: I find the blue willow jerries to be much less bulky anyway so no chilling and fermenting in them suits me well. I use my two barrel type fermenters for a bottling bucket and any beer or beverage that's higher volume than the cube allows.

I have no doubt that no chill in the fermenter works well for many but it's not something that would give me any advantage to try since I already have more jerries than fermenters and I can comfortably fit far more jerries in my fermenting space than I can barrels. It also seems like adding one extra risk factor without any major gain since cubes are easy to use and cheap.

The infection that has occurred here in the past is usually the same one and probably relates to a plant on the property. I never want to see it again.


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## pcmfisher (5/11/11)

@manticle, After fermenting in a no chill cube, how do you get the beer out? Syphon? or do you have a tap in the bottom?


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## felten (5/11/11)

osmosis



can't speak for mants, but I drill out the threaded hole on my jerries for use with NC/FVs. I've tried siphoning them before and hopefully will never have to again.


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## Tim F (5/11/11)

Don't know if if its really warranted but I hate using taps in fermenters, they seem like such a hard part to keep properly sanitary. I pump out of the FV with a peristaltic pump and racking cane which I have pumped sanitiser through.


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## stux (5/11/11)

The nice thing with the willow jerrys is they hold 23/24L once you've stretched them a bit, so if you put 20/21 L in and squash the air out, when you open the seal you'll end up with about 3L headspace


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## Tim F (5/11/11)

How do you aerate if you ferment in the cube, just let air in and shake? I might have to give it a go some time.


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## manticle (5/11/11)

Untwist lid, let air in, tighten lid, shake like there's no tomorrow.

Like Felten, I drill out the tap bung and simply use the jerry as per a normal fermenter.

I break my taps apart each brew, clean and sanitise. I make sure the thread is clean and sanitised too.


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## Mikedub (5/11/11)

I've done the same. drilled the bung, though tricky to get a clean cut drilling, the plastic flared out and looked like it could harbor some nasties, it bothered me enough to go in through the top and cut it back with a Stanley on an extension, 
paranoid? - probably

I've tried to take the taps apart, struggled for a while before thinking they weren't suppose to, might have another crack


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## manticle (5/11/11)

There's a pic thread somewhere on this forum on how to break apart standard fermenter taps but basically put a piece of wooden dowel or the end of a wooden spoon in at the entry end (that connects to the bung) and hold it vertically. Bang it sharply against the ground or other hard surface. It should come apart easily.

I've had no trouble drilling a hole in the bung - I can usually clear the plastic out quite easily.


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## Mikedub (5/11/11)

cheers Manticle, just tried it, worked a treat, 
re: the drilling the Bung, yeah I probably should stop buying my drill bits from Aldi, I'm a fan of the place but sometimes get lured into their uncharted waters,


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## pcmfisher (7/11/11)

Re the taps,
The main thing I was concerned about is the tap popping out when you stick the hot wort in making the thread soft.
Haven't I heard of this happening?


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## felten (7/11/11)

It's definitely liable to come out if you knock it or bump into it, you just have to be very careful when moving it around.


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## ShredMaster (7/11/11)

The tap should be fine, I have a standard Bunnings white "fermenter tap" on my kettle-bucket, works fine boiling for an hour or so and hasn't popped off, yet. 

As Felton said, just be really careful not to knock it or bump it.


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## manticle (7/11/11)

Bumping a tap at any time can result in it leaking. I have never had a cube tap pop out simply from hot wort though. If there is a risk, my experience suggests it's overstated.


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## pk.sax (7/11/11)

those FWK kit cubes (17L) are amongst the toughest I've seen yet. I had a tap on mine an I NC'd in it w/out any problems.

I hav an issue with the willow cubes not sealing properly so I get the squarish jerry cans. I'll use the 1 willow can I've got to ferment something when the fermenter is tied up, never NCing in it again though.


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## Bats (12/11/13)

wombil said:


> I have no chilled in the fermenter with no problems.
> I also have a spare fire extinguisher and give the fermenter a good shot of CO2 first to displace air and as the fermenter fills up it is under the blanket of CO2.No worries.
> My theory anyway,seems to work.
> Last lot I strained through 40 micron filter paper hot.Just have to see how it turns out.


A good shot of Co2 in the cube prior to transferring your hot wort?

I'm guessing this works as Co2 is heavier than air? I was never good at science so someone may like to help here.

Also, how much Co2 at a minimum e.g pressure, amount of time to purge.

I find that my willow cubes are heard to squeeze the air out so may try the co2 option.


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## JDW81 (12/11/13)

Bats said:


> I find that my willow cubes are heard to squeeze the air out so may try the co2 option.


Really? What size cubes and what size batches do you put in them? I use willow jerries and have no trouble getting the air out, mind you I do fill them full as a fat woman's shoe.


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## Bats (13/11/13)

JDW81 said:


> Really? What size cubes and what size batches do you put in them? I use willow jerries and have no trouble getting the air out, mind you I do fill them full as a fat woman's shoe.


I have 20L and 25L cubes and usually brew about 22L at a time.

When I use liquid yeasts I use the first 5L or so when transferring to the cube for a starter which obviously means less in the cube. I have been able to squeeze the majority of air out in the past however I am worried about distorting the cubes too much and ruining the integrity of the cube seals. My brew days are too long only for a cube to burst on me.


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## Weizguy (8/9/14)

I recently brewed a 19 litre batch of Weyermann Maibock extract bock (full boil)

I decanted directly from the keggle into the iodophor-sanitised fermentor, and sealed the lid with a minimal amount of iodphor in the airlock, and chilled I the sink overnight. Pitched the wort about 6 days later, when I had the chance to rack the previous wort off the yeast cake.

No probs, no growth on top, and no off-aroma in the wort.


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## Jens-Kristian (9/9/14)

I almost always leave it to cool down in the fermenter and I've never had a problem. I reckon the temperature of the wort in the fermenter takes pretty good care of any nasties in the first place and I always wash out the fermenter with boiling water before that stage, too. I pitch next morning, so there's very little risk of infection doing it this way. I have a fermenter lid where I've plugged the airlock hole with an O-ring and a bolt through it.

As for taps, I use the garden hose with attachment and rinse the crap out of it with good pressure from the outside nozzle. Then before brewing I run boiling water through it. If it looks particularly bad, I take it out of the fermenter and pop it into a pot of boiling water for a few minutes. 

Boiling water and a brush is the only sanitation I use and I just use it all over. I've never had an infection.


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## syl (9/9/14)

I did this last night because I had no cubes - will pitch when I get home from work!


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## Weizguy (2/5/16)

Update for a brew I made yesterday in a 50 litre SS oil fusti, via my usual fermentor no-chill method.

Cleaned and sanitised the fusti before racking into the vessel. Wort had cooled a bit while I was cleaning the fermentor, and was 80° before I drained the wort via sanitised silicone hose into it.
Transferred about 44 litres of hot wort, so there was little head space.
I screwed the lid on, just a tiny bit loose, and covered the top with a clean towel to minimise dust and bugs being drawn in under the lid as the wort cools.
Tonight I lifted the fermentor onto a keggle for the photo shot.


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## Wall (2/5/16)

I did this a fortnight ago for a second runnings beer off of a RIS.
The cube it was going to had a smell I really didn't like when I went to sanitise it so dumped the cube hops in a sanitised fermenter filled her up and pitched yeast the next day.
Seems to be happy as Larry, will be getting kegged this week.

Have you changed anything to no chill this way rather than use a cube Les?
I'm thinking if this one comes out alright I might do this every time I plan to pitch the next day anyway.
Often No Chill to cube is just a way to get in a shorter brew day for me.


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## CmdrRyekr (3/5/16)

Doesn't sound like a great idea mate, be careful!


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## Weizguy (3/5/16)

Not very much to change. Follow sanitary practice.
As always, sanitise the cleaned ferment vessel.
Add the wort as hot as possible, but no need to invert/splash the interior of the sanitised stainless vessel.
Ensure the kettle tap is clean and sanitised. I usually run about a litre of boiling wort into my jug after adding the Brewbrite, and return to the kettle.
Sanitise the hose when sanitising the stainless vessel.
Only have the lid open enough to fit the fill hose into the vessel.
Try to have the hose long enough to reach the bottom of the fermentor and minimise splashing.
Cover the lid and hose with the fresh clean towel while draining the wort.

Remember that dust/wild yeast/bacteria mostly travel by gravity (and air currents), so cover the opening of the vessel to minimise unintended bug transfer to the wort..


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## buckerooni (3/5/16)

for those a bit paraniod about taps/spigots failing, you can use these: http://kegking.com.au/bottles-and-bottling-equipment/tap-in-cap-cube-tap-with-venting-valve.html

I use the threaded snap taps in 20L jerrys with no issue with hot wort, haven't had one fail in over 25+ brews.


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