# Goodbye Tony



## Mardoo (14/9/15)

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.


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## Grott (14/9/15)

The ears will stop that.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)




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## SBOB (14/9/15)

Here comes another 78 pages


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## idzy (14/9/15)

Will be interesting to see what form the new look takes...


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)




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## madpierre06 (14/9/15)

That's stopped the goats.

Ahh, fantastic. Apparently there's never been a more exciting time to be an Australian.

Already been a shot at the Rudd - Gillard - Rudd govt. :lol:


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## Yob (14/9/15)

3 days before is big arse pension kicked in too..

asshole... **** off


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## madpierre06 (14/9/15)

Yob said:


> 3 days before is big arse pension kicked in too..
> 
> asshole... **** off


You don't reckon Mal knew about that too...hehe.


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## Yob (14/9/15)

stick it in and snap it off.. wont be missed but will hold a special place in the anals of Australian political history


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## Grott (14/9/15)

In following labours PM efforts does this mean Tony will oust Turnbull in a few months time?


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)

madpierre06 said:


> You don't reckon Mal knew about that too...hehe.


I am secretly hoping he did


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)

grott said:


> In following labours PM efforts does this mean Tony will oust Turnbull in a few months time?


Only so he can get another 4 days in


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## madpierre06 (14/9/15)

Yob said:


> stick it in and snap it off.. wont be missed but will hold a special place in the *anals* of Australian political history



One of our greatest anals.


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## Yob (14/9/15)

deliberate...


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## Benn (14/9/15)

...Something had to give. The dudes a dead set Fuckwit.


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## Phoney (14/9/15)

I was hoping for a Harold Holt style swim at the beach but this will suffice


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)

Now that he is out of a job, will he have to wait 6 months to get the dole.. ?


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## madpierre06 (14/9/15)

Geez, that was bloody quick though. He didn't even have time for a last meal.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)

He probably had an onion in his pocket


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## madpierre06 (14/9/15)

He wasn't just pleased to see ya?


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)

Dont think so. I am all out of onions


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## Tropico (14/9/15)

madpierre06 said:


> You don't reckon Mal knew about that too...hehe.


Bronwyn knew it too, and said frick you Tony


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## Tropico (14/9/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only so he can get another 4 days in


Two heads he is after, Malcolm and Bronwyn. There will be a lot of back-stabbing manoeuvring leading up to the next election.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/9/15)

maybe they will all stab each other to death


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## Howlingdog (14/9/15)

Ding Dong the Captain's dead - long live the captain!


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## Florian (15/9/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only so he can get another 4 days in


He'd need 1 year and 4 days.


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## justatad (15/9/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Dont think so. I am all out of onions


That' ok Tony brought his own onion !


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## JDW81 (15/9/15)




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## Curly79 (15/9/15)

Best news I've heard in a long time. So long Shithead! Might even buy the Hearald Scum this morning for a giggle.


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## DU99 (15/9/15)

Wonder whose next in line "Hockey".see he kept bishop


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## manticle (15/9/15)

Curly79 said:


> Best news I've heard in a long time. So long Shithead! Might even buy the Hearald Scum this morning for a giggle.


Make sure you read Bolt suggesting it was a political assassination driven by the ABC against a decent man of integrity.


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## Dips Me Lid (15/9/15)

From the moment he granted knighthood to that onion I knew his time was up.


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## JDW81 (15/9/15)

manticle said:


> Make sure you read Bolt suggesting it was a political assassination driven by the ABC against a decent man of integrity.


Driven by the biased ABC and funded by Fairfax.


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## crowmanz (15/9/15)

Ol Tone is still entitled to a bit over $307k per year pension, plus he will probably get $300k a year to staff an office and travel costs (Rudd, Gillard and Howard got this as well apparently).

That's a shit load of onions to munch on. Maybe he can go back to wearing them on his belt, which was the fashion of his time.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/liberal-leadership-spill-tony-abbotts-annual-pension-to-top-300000-plus-extras-20150914-gjmigj.html


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## Black Devil Dog (15/9/15)

Hopefully the change will prevent Shifty and the Incompetents from getting back in. Everyone would be happy about that, surely.


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## Seaquebrew (15/9/15)

Hopefully the change will see the end of slogan chanting morons from both sides and see well thought out views articulated and debated

The other side requires change to enable this

Time for leadership not sound grab politics

Cheers


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## hellbent (15/9/15)

I just worry 5 PM's in 5 years...how the hell can we afford to pay their pensions an all the perks??... They'll probably just rip it out of the aged pensioners by cutting their pensions!
I read in this forum a lot of people here are glad to see the end of Tony, and although he wasn't the brightest button in the box he tried and failed for Australia, but at least he tried.
This new wealthy hombre has a fierce reputation for being all for Malcolm Turnbull and **** the rest of you. This man supports the green movement so he will probably side with the greens come election time and we all know how idiotic the greens can get with a little power.
He supports gay marriage which will make the gays happy, but his greatest asset is he is a republican, which I for one believe Australia should be.
The upshot of it all is it that come election time we get to either vote for Turnbull or Bill Shorten,,,OMG..
A lot of people will say frig it and vote independent which could get us yet another dude getting in on preferences, probably someone who was a once a great sportsman or local identity who would know "jack shit" about running the country and yet is prepared to hold Australia to ransom to get his way as has been done in the past ..... scary ain't it??


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## Lincoln2 (15/9/15)

10 out of the last 14 democratically elected Prime Ministers have not made it to the end of their term; 9 of which were fired by their own party. We're turning into Italy. It's bloody atrocious and a scary joke.


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## jlm (15/9/15)

To be fair, its been pretty hard for Tone to Govern since the onion incident. He's minds been stuck on a loop repeating it over and over again.

"Why didn't I eat a white onion? Even a spanish onion sounds a little ethnic but I had to eat the brown one. By letting a brown onion past my oesophageal border and into my digestive homeland I've proven I'm no better than Phillip Addams or Bob Brown. I might as well go and join that death cult I keep rabbiting on about"

You try and be good at your job with that on your mind non stop.


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## Bribie G (15/9/15)

Sir Pository has been given the arse.Now he'll have a spare one to sell.


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## Airgead (15/9/15)

hellbent said:


> This man supports the green movement so he will probably side with the greens come election time and we all know how idiotic the greens can get with a little power.


At the risk of creating another 78 pages....

As a member of the only party in parliament that bases their policies on actual science and evidence instead if slogans and knee jerk populism, could you point out exactly how the greens get idiotic with a little power?

And by counterexample, point out how the two majors don't get idiotic (with or without power..., up to you).


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## Airgead (15/9/15)

hellbent said:


> This man supports the green movement so he will probably side with the greens come election time and we all know how idiotic the greens can get with a little power.


At the risk of creating another 78 pages....

As a member of the only party in parliament that bases their policies on actual science and evidence instead of slogans and knee jerk populism, could you point out exactly how the greens get idiotic with a little power?

And by counterexample, point out how the two majors don't get idiotic (with or without power..., up to you).

Edited because my fingers don;t work today

Edit edit - and why did my edit show up as a new post?


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## Weizguy (15/9/15)

> maybe they will all stab each other to death


Not if they're all stabbing the Turkish Prison way, like in Midnight Express.

Time for a new email account: [email protected]


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## GalBrew (15/9/15)

Seaquebrew said:


> Hopefully the change will see the end of slogan chanting morons from both sides and see well thought out views articulated and debated
> 
> The other side requires change to enable this
> 
> ...


Surely you jest??


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## Weizguy (15/9/15)

> <abbrev>
> This new wealthy hombre has a fierce reputation for being all for Malcolm Turnbull and f*** the rest of you. This man supports the green movement so he will probably side with the greens come election time and we all know how idiotic the greens can get with a little power.
> ..... scary ain't it?? </abbrev>


I can't see him siding with the Greens, or vice versa, not unless he needs the numbers, and that's not on the cards at the moment.


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## Blind Dog (15/9/15)

Airgead said:


> As a member of the only party in parliament that bases their policies on actual science and evidence instead of slogans and knee jerk populism, could you point out exactly how the greens get idiotic with a little power?


Simples - because it is clearly idiotic to base policies on science and evidence and possibly the rather outdated notion that we are custodians of this planet for future generations, rather than schouting 'stop the boats' louder than the other mob


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## DU99 (15/9/15)

wonder if the same sex marriage will surface in the next few weeks


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## real_beer (15/9/15)

I'm a Brisbane Bronco's supporter but I'd like to congratulate Jarrad Hayne for achieving his dream of playing in the NFL :icon_cheers: .

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/09/15/11/04/jarryd-hayne-to-play-in-49ers-season-opener

Australia's the best place to live on the planet, it's people are creative with fantastic ideas for new technological breakthroughs that would give us outstanding prosperity as a nation. But sadly we have a system in place that allows people to nurture and grow unbelievable ideas and then let other countries harvest them because our system has no way of backing or encouraging them. I hope the young people now coming through the political system steel themselves and make a commitment to change this disgraceful pattern and help build a country where dreams grow to fruition and prosper.

Just in the home brewing scene we've had Craftbrewer Ross give us the quick keg carbonation method, PistolPatch Pat give us BIAB, and more recently we've seen the no-chill wort method. The last two of these were initially heavily criticised then gleefully adopted by many brewer's around the world, what more can you say :lol:


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## Rod (15/9/15)

Shorton will be next


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## sponge (15/9/15)

Rod said:


> Shorton will be next


I'd prefer if it was Christopher Pyne..


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## Dave70 (15/9/15)

sponge said:


> I'd prefer if it was Christopher Pyne..


Me to. That phucking phixer..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYmz-zIBdDY


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## pcmfisher (15/9/15)

Airgead said:


> At the risk of creating another 78 pages....
> 
> As a member of the only party in parliament that bases their policies on actual science and evidence instead of slogans and knee jerk populism, could you point out exactly how the greens get idiotic with a little power?
> 
> ...


It's doubtful that Malcolm Turnbull, or anyone else for that matter, will side with the Greens any time soon after Julia Gillard's little episode with them.

The Greens have these policies that seem to be all nice and bubbly when they are thrown up from the sidelines, but the more they succeed, the greater focus there is on their policies, some of which are less designed to be implemented than to attract votes. 

When it has found itself holding the balance of power, like with Julia's snuggly relationship, the Greens have struggled to reconcile its whacked out principles with the demands of governing.

Their policies turn out to be, you argue scientific, I say purist dribble.


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## Dave70 (15/9/15)

I've long thought they should ditch the folksy 'Greens' moniker in favor of the more grown up 'Environmental socialist alliance party'.


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## Airgead (15/9/15)

pcmfisher said:


> The Greens have these policies that seem to be all nice and bubbly when they are thrown up from the sidelines, but the more they succeed, the greater focus there is on their policies, some of which are less designed to be implemented than to attract votes.
> 
> When it has found itself holding the balance of power, like with Julia's snuggly relationship, the Greens have struggled to reconcile its whacked out principles with the demands of governing.
> 
> Their policies turn out to be, you argue scientific, I say purist dribble.


Again I ask... what policies are, as you put it "purist dribble"? What exactly is "whacked out" about them?

I suspect that by "whacked out purist dribble" you really mean - "things I don;t agree with".


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## Drick (15/9/15)

Meanwhile back at headquarters. 

https://plus.google.com/photos/117185554531100680457/albums/6194599867497953761?authkey=CKHcjq265dWd2wE


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## Curly79 (15/9/15)

manticle said:


> Make sure you read Bolt suggesting it was a political assassination driven by the ABC against a decent man of integrity.


Well. That was hard work, opening up the Herald scum and reading an Andrew Bolt article all in one day!


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## TheWiggman (15/9/15)

Airgead said:


> Again I ask... what policies are, as you put it "purist dribble"? What exactly is "whacked out" about them?
> 
> I suspect that by "whacked out purist dribble" you really mean - "things I don;t agree with".


Here's one of my favourites - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/coal-barons-must-pay-for-flood-damage-says-bob-brown/story-fn7iwx3v-1225989034396


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## Airgead (15/9/15)

TheWiggman said:


> Here's one of my favourites - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/queensland-floods/coal-barons-must-pay-for-flood-damage-says-bob-brown/story-fn7iwx3v-1225989034396


Ahhhh... The Australian... for real whacked out purist dribble...

But in response - why not? If the floods are linked to climate change caused by burning coal, why not make them pay for it? if i accidentally light a fire and it burns someones house down, they can quite rightly sue me for damages. At the moment, companies don't pay for a lot of the environmental damage they cause (the economic tern is externalities) and they should.At the moment, companies privatise profits and socialise risk because government s (and by extension taxpayers) pay to clean up after them.

You make a mess, you pay to clean it up. I have no problem with that.


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## Vini2ton (15/9/15)

A snake may shed it's skin, but it's still a snake. Same lemon, new salesman. etc etc.


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## GABBA110360 (15/9/15)

the next thread will be titled goodbye BILL or goodbye MALCOM or HOW MANY KNIVES JULIE same shit different day


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## MHB (15/9/15)

Tony Who?


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## Droopy Brew (15/9/15)

Airgead said:


> Ahhhh... The Australian... for real whacked out purist dribble...
> 
> But in response - why not? If the floods are linked to climate change caused by burning coal, why not make them pay for it? if i accidentally light a fire and it burns someones house down, they can quite rightly sue me for damages. At the moment, companies don't pay for a lot of the environmental damage they cause (the economic tern is externalities) and they should.At the moment, companies privatise profits and socialise risk because government s (and by extension taxpayers) pay to clean up after them.
> 
> You make a mess, you pay to clean it up. I have no problem with that.


Find me a lawyer that can prove that the floods were created by the Australian coal mines in question- or any for that matter. Im not saying mining as a whole doesnt have environmental impacts- they do, but to lay a weather event at the feet of a few is pure stupidity.
Obviously you are a green supporter- thats fine each to their own and I wont bother trying to change anybodies political persuasion but Id say you are oblivious to the damage they would do if given enough power. Pretty much anyone that likes to get out and enjoy the environment would be locked out by this mob if they had their way. Wouldnt bother them- they (the politicians) would just about exclusively live in cities and have no interest in actually enjoying the environment rather they would appease their own guilt ( I would love to see the individual carbon footprint of your garden variety green polly) by locking others out.

There are too many examples to give and you would find a way to justify them no doubt but Ill give you one that just smacks of arse about science- their rabid opposition to controled burns. Any ecologist worth his salt will list a multitude of benefits to the environment from reducing fuel loads by controlled burns that greatly reduce large intense bush fires that cause massive environmental damage.

Anyway that aside- Turnbull may have some environmental conscience which is fantastic, but he is smart enough to know not to get into bed with those looneys- and politically he would have no need to. Unless he balsses this up I reckon the LNP are sweet for at least 2 terms.


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## goomboogo (15/9/15)

Does this mean Turnbull can drop the facade of the past several years and admit he sold out on the NBN? Can we now have a Prime Minister who has at least heard of the internet and is prepared to commit to a 21st century network?


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## Danscraftbeer (15/9/15)

One term Tony........................Not!


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## seamad (15/9/15)

goomboogo said:


> Does this mean Turnbull can drop the facade of the past several years and admit he sold out on the NBN? Can we now have a Prime Minister who has at least heard of the internet and is prepared to commit to a 21st century network?


ahh fraudband
At least we've gone from the dark ages with tones to the age of copper with turnbull


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## jlm (15/9/15)

sponge said:


> I'd prefer if it was Christopher Pyne..


I love him as education minister......Repeat this phrase in your head, but in Chris's voice (not mine, which is obviously an earthy baritone that would make the bowels of Barry White tremble when I hit the low notes) and try and tell me you couldn't hear it coming out of his mouth.

"I mean sure......I was molested by a few different clergymen in my time at St Ignaitus......but I insisted my parents didn't make any complaints because it would have been bad for the school"

That's the kind of stereotypical old boy we need casting his one open eye over the nations schools.


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## Danscraftbeer (15/9/15)

Droopy Brew said:


> Find me a lawyer that can prove that the floods were created by the Australian coal mines in question.


Sorry I could'nt help but giggle a little at this. A lawyer? up against the highest payed lawyers owned by the biggest wealthiest most powerful heavy polluters? No chance.
Conspiracy theory? or reality?

Check out a Documentary called: Merchants of Doubt for some relevance. Scientists and scientific evidence has been little competition against them. Although after decades they did manage to prove that cigarettes are bad for you. So there is hope still. 

To campaign and say its all crap while at the same time planning their new drilling areas for oil once the Ice caps melt away and clear the path. They new the science was real all along.
I think we are well past the mythology and hoax theories. The science needs to be taken seriously. (both ways!) or left and right wing/everybody loses.

Talking about the whole Global scale thing in general etc.
$0.02


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## jlm (15/9/15)

goomboogo said:


> Does this mean Turnbull can drop the facade of the past several years and admit he sold out on the NBN? Can we now have a Prime Minister who has at least heard of the internet and is prepared to commit to a 21st century network?


Wwwwwweeeeeeeeellllllllll.........At the risk of opening a completely different can of worms, and as some one who has had the super fast fibre speeds and now has the decent enough fixed wireless speeds, and also has gone back to hauling fibre to the premise due to the new rates which are particularly attractive if you can work a crew of monkeys well enough...........At what price (and I'm talking real dollars here) do you value this 21st century network to be rolled out right now? Seeing as the majority of premises I'm a part of connecting are domestic, and get to see what's invoiced for the work just to get from pit to premise....... never mind the backbone behind that, I really have to wonder with the speeds my fixed wireless connection gets (slightly faster than ADSL) if its worth spending all this coin to connect domestic situations where realistically ADSL speeds aren't currently holding back your life in any significant way.


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## Tropico (15/9/15)

MHB said:


> Tony Who?


Who's next


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## Eagleburger (15/9/15)

The west laughed at Thailand and the way they churned through PM's. Immature was the agreed label. I think we have surpased them.

A likable leader is not always the best leader. It is not a popularity contest FFS. I probably have TA(I had to think of his name, just sayin) at the same position on my BBQ invitation list in the same place as most people here.

This is just bullshit. Poor economic leadership??? The world is in recession!!

I hope you all enjoy spending your superannuation on your mortgage and a new car. 

Did I mention that abbot is a fuckwit?


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## Eagleburger (15/9/15)

A puppet is only as good as the hand in its arse.


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## spog (15/9/15)

Haven't read the post's on this topic but here's hopping the Tony never hired a helicopter or drove a train otherwise this thread will be the same as Goodbye Bronwyn's , 80 pages and 1580 replies !
But,as I understand it no Prime Minister goodies for him,that's an immediate saving of 660 k per year for Australia,thank **** .

Please continue.


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## goomboogo (15/9/15)

Jim, you can't measure future potential unrealised against the benchmarks of today. We can't know now what the future will hold if more people have access to higher quality internet connections. Twenty-five years ago, most people couldn't envision the internet we have today. The full benefit of the highest quality internet service is not something we can conceive of right now. But in twenty-five years we'll live in a time that has requirements that exceed what we imagine right now, those requirements will be.

In terms of cost, you say can we afford it? Conversely, can we afford not to do it? We should never lose sight of the fact that no sovereign government in control of a fiat currency is revenue constrained.


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## manticle (15/9/15)

spog said:


> Haven't read the post's on this topic but here's hopping the Tony never hired a helicopter or drove a train otherwise this thread will be the same as Goodbye Bronwyn's , 80 pages and 1580 replies !
> But,as I understand it no Prime Minister goodies for him,that's an immediate saving of 660 k per year for Australia,thank **** .
> Please continue.


Plenty of goodies in store for him mate.


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## Pogierob (15/9/15)

I'd like to dedicate a little song to good old Tony, 

I'd like everyone to take a moment and have a little sing along if you don't mind .... Please be sure to join in on the chorus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwO7jPv_RUI


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## jlm (15/9/15)

goomboogo said:


> Jim, you can't measure future potential unrealised against the benchmarks of today. We can't know now what the future will hold if more people have access to higher quality internet connections. Twenty-five years ago, most people couldn't envision the internet we have today. The full benefit of the highest quality internet service is not something we can conceive of right now. But in twenty-five years we'll live in a time that has requirements that exceed what we imagine right now, those requirements will be.
> 
> In terms of cost, you say can we afford it? Conversely, can we afford not to do it? We should never lose sight of the fact that no sovereign government in control of a fiat currency is revenue constrained.


I question the cost involved to supply a large section of the country with speeds that are realistically only going to be used for home entertainment. I have no issue with the network being put in place to provide business' that require that speed to get their job done. 

Fast internet in the home is not a basic human right. ADSL will put netflix on your box just fine. The money could be spent far better elsewhere. Maybe eliminating mobile and internet backstops in regional areas for one, but even then there's bigger issues at hand.


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## Danscraftbeer (15/9/15)

What entitlements *didn't* he receive then? The annual dollar sign? Considering the quotable spit in the faces of many people including working class taxpayers etc. 
The Age of entitlement is over!


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## SBOB (15/9/15)

jlm said:


> I question the cost involved to supply a large section of the country with speeds that are realistically only going to be used for home entertainment.


I question the cost involved in building roads that I will never drive on.

Actually, I dont but its a similar mentality.

Infrastructure such as the NBN should be a higher priority than it is, as its deployment provides future growth (both planned and unplanned from ideas that havent been realised)
Plus, if it was done right in the first place its 'true' cost to the tax payer/budget is minimal due to the large majority of the funding coming from government backed bonds to raise the capital..not a single country is rolling out copper so why bother rolling out upgrades that continue to use it (you're already resigned to paying $x to roll out some arbitrary upgrade, why not spend $x + $y and do it right the first time instead of having to come back later and re-do it, but that will be on some other governments dime so who cares right)


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## Black Devil Dog (15/9/15)

Interesting how this will play out. 

The Canning by-election on the weekend was looking really close, possibly even a loss for the LNP after winning 62% of the votes last election.
I suspect that was a major factor in the party acting when they did. Turnbull has been polling better than Abbott for some time and maybe they felt if they acted now, they might prevent Canning going to Labor.

That Abbott will fall short of his full Prime Ministerial entitlement by a few days, is an unfortunate/fortunate coincidence.

If the gamble pays off for the LNP and they hold Canning by a good margin, they might be tempted in the next few months to call an early election. Don't know how well that would go down with the punters though.

If Turnbull polls well and Shorten doesn't, the pressure shifts to the Labor party. Conversely, if Turnbull polls poorly, the LNP and Turnbull will be shot ducks.

Whatever happens, the main players in the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd/Abbott era, which has been one of the lowest points in Australian politics, are all gone and hopefully we can have a more progressive and inclusive government. 

Time will tell.


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## manticle (15/9/15)

There are occasions when I agree with you Black Devil dog and that last paragraph particularly is one such time.


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## Droopy Brew (15/9/15)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Sorry I could'nt help but giggle a little at this. A lawyer? up against the highest payed lawyers owned by the biggest wealthiest most powerful heavy polluters? No chance.
> Conspiracy theory? or reality?
> 
> Check out a Documentary called: Merchants of Doubt for some relevance. Scientists and scientific evidence has been little competition against them. Although after decades they did manage to prove that cigarettes are bad for you. So there is hope still.
> ...


Im not calling it a conspiracy theory and understand the power of the almighty $ - perhaps Bob Brown could give himself a reality check before coming up with such statements.

Lawyer or otherwise (and you will be hard pressed to sue without one) I dont believe that there is anybody that can make a reasonable case that the actual action of digging coal from the ground caused the floods. Sure there may be links to the burning of fossil fuels and weather patterns- the contribution made by man vs the natural cycles is still not clear. But really- do you think that you can pin a single weather event on the coal mining industry alone? In particular the Australian coal industry? No contribution from the industrialisation of the entire world over the past 130 years? No contribution from the actual consumers of the coal that burn it?

Believing that the coal mines in Australia alone caused or had significant hand in that weather event is as naive as those that say humans have no impact on the environment. Both extreme views IMO


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## jlm (15/9/15)

SBOB said:


> I question the cost involved in building roads that I will never drive on.
> 
> Actually, I dont but its a similar mentality.
> 
> ...


Hey, all these hypotheticals about how rolling out fibre to domestic premises is going to change the way we work and make our nation super competitive in your prediction of the future are fantastic.

In my hypothetical theory the majority of this nation's workforce, and most first world countries for that matter, for the next 50 years though my crystal ball will wake up and go to work elsewhere and not need the bandwidth that FTP provides at their home.

There will still be ducts in the ground that can be re-used, and new trenches can be dug as they are required in both scenarios.

I'd be really interested to know how things will get more expensive, cost of labour aside, in the future to provide FTP where is actually required. While I'm a simple cable monkey, I'd be intrigued to know why as the technology develops it becomes less efficient?


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## manticle (15/9/15)

I don't think he really said 'they caused the floods'. I believe that to be hyperbole for the sake of headlines.
I believe he drew on a conclusion based on scientific evidence that coal based power contributes to climate change and climate change contributes to the preavalence of occurrences like floods.
Based on that, he then suggested part of the now non existent mining tax be used in areas like flood relief. It was a statement by a green, rather than a Greens policy - we can go a long way to making many politicians look like strait-jacketable ECT candidates if we take journalistic interpretations of public statements and suggest they are party policy.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/9/15)

RE the NBN

Ok.

Labor saw that the existing copper network just cannot handle the speeds of a modern internet

Technically copper will never, ever, ever compete with fibre. 

The bandwidth of a single optical fibre has not yet been reached. The only thing limiting the bandwidth of fibre is the equipment at either end

Most of the copper in the ground is old, serviceable, but old and getting older

It costs less for fibre per Km than copper ( and you get a shit load more bandwidth )

The install costs are about the same. 

The big problem with the NBN is Telstra and their ownership of the existing copper network. They have they fixed line users. And that is where the $$ are

Business broadband is a cut throat race to the bottom

The LNP dont like the original NBN model. It was about providing a flat platform for all users. Bit like Auspost

NBN is seen as competition 


* Note I work for an ISP ( only for the last 12months ) but before that I worked in the general comms industry in various tech/install/support roles. I dont have an allegiance. I look at the industry from a tech side, not a marketing or commercial side


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/9/15)




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## Dave70 (16/9/15)

Eagleburger said:


> The west laughed at Thailand and the way they churned through PM's. Immature was the agreed label. I think we have surpased them.
> 
> A likable leader is not always the best leader. *It is not a popularity contest FFS.*


Actually, its exactly that.

_pop·u·lar·i·ty_

_ˌpäpyəˈlerədē/_

_noun_
_noun: *popularity*_





_the state or condition of being liked, admired, or supported by many people._







There was a proposition thrown about a while back to do away with jurys simply because the nature of protracted trials is to complex for the average person to grasp. And who doesn't roll their eyes and immediately start rehearsing excuses when that envelope lands in the mail. Much like polling day.
I propose we do away with electorates and instead choose governments via some system akin to the high court where the relevant parties have all their policys and schemes scrutinized by a board of highly qualified professionals and representatives - perhaps the public could vote these reps in - and let them decide whos got the chops to run the country.

Alternatively, we make political studies compulsory as maths and English rather than an 'elective'. Makes sense to me. Unless you like voting how your daddy voted. And his daddy before him. 




Eagleburger said:


> A puppet is only as good as the hand in its arse.


At least if its Rob Smigels hand, its a funny puppet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcRHUOTNobE


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## jlm (16/9/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> RE the NBN
> 
> Ok.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with any of the above, but one option completely missed there is the option of fixed wireless (which is the barrow I was trying to push last night a bit unsuccessfully) . As I stated previously, that's what I'm on now. Good enough speeds for the home at a cheap as chips rate compared to FTP. I completely am comfortable with business that require the speeds that fibre brings getting FTP, but domestically, you don't and more than likely won't need that speed.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/9/15)

Fixed wireless is good for out lying residence in rural communities. It is working really well up here on the north coast where it is just not feasable to run fibre to every house 

The problem NBN is facing is the backhaul. Whilst your connection speed might be great if the backhaul is chocked then your overall speed will be crap. Its already happening

And if you think that most users just want 25Mb connections then you are wrong. You would not believe how many residential users can blow 1Tb of usage a month.

More and more user are using the like of Netflox, iView etc..etc and this eats bandwidth. Combine this with multiple users hanging off a single connection ( Mum & Dad each have a computer, each child has an iPad etc ) and that 25Mbps connection feels more like 5Mbps


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## pist (16/9/15)

Airgead said:


> Again I ask... what policies are, as you put it "purist dribble"? What exactly is "whacked out" about them?
> 
> I suspect that by "whacked out purist dribble" you really mean - "things I don;t agree with".


Emissions taxing/trading to begin with. That is a stupid idea. It doesn't achieve anything, except drive business out of the country, which comes as a loss to the economy. Very few businesses left here producing, exporting, paying taxes which is bad for the economy especially considering the resources sector is now failing (this country has put all their eggs in one basket for far too long). Then there's the flow on effect to unemployment. There's a lot more people out of a job than the rubbish 6.1% they quote. They fail to mention they count being listed with an employment agency as being employed, even though you may not be receiving any work from them. Yes something needs to be done to tackle carbon emissions, but you can't just go and slap a ridiculous tax on and expect it to make a difference. Investment in research, development and installation of efficient clean power technologies whilst phasing out the old as it is brought online is the way to achieve it. Creates jobs, entices manufacturing back into the country, reduces emissions in the long run and everyone is happy.


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## mje1980 (16/9/15)

Nothing more boring than listening to people compare the 12 different TV shows that they're currently watching. Seriously, get outside ffs


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## SBOB (16/9/15)

jlm said:


> I don't disagree with any of the above, but one option completely missed there is the option of fixed wireless


which is fine for low density or low user-count areas, but its a shared medium.. the more users, the lower per-user bandwidth available..


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/9/15)

SBOB said:


> which is fine for low density or low user-count areas, but its a shared medium.. the more users, the lower per-user bandwidth available..


It is, but you have to look at cost v users

At the extreme end is satellite connections. Farking expensive, lots of delay/lag , limited bandwidth. This is going to be the option for up to 150,000 users where it is just not feasable to get fibre or wireless to every household


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## jlm (16/9/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> More and more user are using the like of Netflox, iView etc..etc and this eats bandwidth. Combine this with multiple users hanging off a single connection ( Mum & Dad each have a computer, each child has an iPad etc ) and that 25Mbps connection feels more like 5Mbps


This sort of my point.......I don't see the need to roll out FTP just so this nightmarish scenario can be avoided. The money could be spent on things far, far more important. Remember the health care section of pages on the other Goodbye thread? I'd rather cash is shovelled into that rather than keeping relatively well off suburbanites happy with their download speed.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/9/15)

Yes, but NBN is not primarily funded by the government as such like health & education. It is a commercial model designed to provide dividends and returns

They are sort of spending money to make money.

The goverment has told NBNco that they will now need to get private capital funding


How are we paying for it?

*Another big misconception about the NBN is how it will be paid for. So, in simple terms, here is an explanation of the public funding:*
The $27.5bn Government component of the NBN is funded by debt, through the issuing of_Australian Government Bonds_. That is, the Federal Government offers our AAA-rated bonds to investors, at an interest rate of about 4% (depending on the term).
The NBN however, will provide a return of about 7%. This means that (once the network is operational), the NBN will begin repaying those bonds at a higher rate than what Government is paying on the debt. By 2034, the entire Government investment (including the interest) will have been repaid by the users of the network, leaving the Government owning a valuable asset (the NBN network) and no associated debt. Big users of the network (those who choose the high speed and high volume plans) will contribute more towards repayment of the debt, and actually subsidise those on smaller plans.
Taxpayers don’t really have anything to do with NBN funding. It is users of the network who will pay to build it, whether they are taxpayers or not.
This is completely different to the majority of Government spending, which doesn’t earn any return. To borrow (and modify) an analogy I read on an internet forum:
*Think of the NBN as an investment property….*
_You are borrowing money to build the property at an interest rate of 4.9%pa. But the tenants will be paying you rent which is the equivalent of 7%pa. So once the house has been finished and the tenants have moved in, the mortgage won’t be costing you anything because you’re receiving more in rental income than you are paying in mortgage payments. Then, fourteen years after the house is finished, the tenants will have completely paid off the mortgage. You can then choose to sell the house for a very large amount of money, or keep it and continue to receive the rent as income._


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## technobabble66 (16/9/15)

Btw, a few of the latest estimates indicate the FTN-modified NBN will cost roughly the same and take about as long as the original FTP NBN, but will now deliver half the speed - all due to problems integrating the fibre network (to the node) with the exchanges and the copper link to the premises (a cousin is in the dept that is dealing with it, says all the cash saved on reducing the network is now being sunk into IT fixes for this problem. And it was originally predicted as a flaw in the FTN concept, fwiw). All for the sake of the LNP having something to slag off the ALP over. 

And the idea with the NBN, as mentioned above, is to unlock unattained or unknown potentials - eg: many more people can run all sorts of businesses from home, business can access new concepts and channel them into those homes. 
It's a bit like saying why construct phone lines when telegraphs do a perfectly good job, and people are only going to use phones to needlessly chat on them.


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## SBOB (16/9/15)

technobabble66 said:


> Btw, a few of the latest estimates indicate the FTN-modified NBN will cost roughly the same and take about as long as the original FTP NBN, but will now deliver half the speed


1/2 the speed is a massive over-estimation


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## mwd (16/9/15)

Trying to ditch the Treasurer big Joe watch out the Btards might just put up GST to gain a few more Billions in the frequent flyer fund.


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## jlm (16/9/15)

technobabble66 said:


> Btw, a few of the latest estimates indicate the FTN-modified NBN will cost roughly the same and take about as long as the original FTP NBN, but will now deliver half the speed - all due to problems integrating the fibre network (to the node) with the exchanges and the copper link to the premises (a cousin is in the dept that is dealing with it, says all the cash saved on reducing the network is now being sunk into IT fixes for this problem. And it was originally predicted as a flaw in the FTN concept, fwiw). All for the sake of the LNP having something to slag off the ALP over.
> 
> And the idea with the NBN, as mentioned above, is to unlock unattained or unknown potentials - eg: many more people can run all sorts of businesses from home, business can access new concepts and channel them into those homes.
> It's a bit like saying why construct phone lines when telegraphs do a perfectly good job, and people are only going to use phones to needlessly chat on them.


And the latest estimates also indicate that the original FTP model would have blown out to 78-84 billion according to NBN co (queue cries of Bill Morrow is a liberal party stooge.....Bring back Quigley) so either the govt cap would have to dramatically increase or NBN co would have to raise a significantly large amount of cash to complete that existing network (and they already have to find another 5-15 billion) to which would throw all the above figures significantly out of whack. I'm not arguing anywhere that business' don't need FTP, just its a waste trying to connect the majority of homes via FTP.

*And also, it will be interesting to see what the returns will actually be...........could be higher or lower, I'm not trying to say that their bullshit but it is a complete unknown until the network is completely finished. We'll find out down here first I suppose. Thank you Julia for those delicious barrels of pork.


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## Airgead (16/9/15)

pist said:


> Emissions taxing/trading to begin with. That is a stupid idea. It doesn't achieve anything, except drive business out of the country, which comes as a loss to the economy. Very few businesses left here producing, exporting, paying taxes which is bad for the economy especially considering the resources sector is now failing (this country has put all their eggs in one basket for far too long). Then there's the flow on effect to unemployment. There's a lot more people out of a job than the rubbish 6.1% they quote. They fail to mention they count being listed with an employment agency as being employed, even though you may not be receiving any work from them. Yes something needs to be done to tackle carbon emissions, but you can't just go and slap a ridiculous tax on and expect it to make a difference. Investment in research, development and installation of efficient clean power technologies whilst phasing out the old as it is brought online is the way to achieve it. Creates jobs, entices manufacturing back into the country, reduces emissions in the long run and everyone is happy.


Really? Except that while our (admittedly very lame) carbon tax was in effect it had a measurable impact on emissions which immediately evaporated when it was removed. https://ccep.crawford.anu.edu.au/publication/ccep-working-paper/4388/impact-carbon-price-australias-electricity-demand-supply-and

Trading schemes work. Economists agree. business folks agree. Scientists agree. Everyone agrees except liberal voters and news corp papers who would prefer that we did nothing. They are the market driven way to reduce emissions. They work. They really do. Dozens of pollutants are controlled and reduced world wide right now through trading schemes. 

the arguments you put forward - jobs will go etc were all used when the trading scheme was set up to cover ozone depleting chemicals back in the 80s. Net result - non of that happened. Emissions of that stuff fell to the point where the ozone hole stopped growing and began to close up.

Relying on innovation to fix things is a very techno Utopian view and is completely unjustified especially when government support for such innovations also evaporated. That was what the tax was supposed to pay for. Who pays for the innovation? Fossil fuel companies? Hardly, especially when they get 5B a year in subsidies to keep things the way they are...

But anyway. Tony was a fuckwit. Good riddance. Malcolm... is a lot less progressive than people think he is, especially with the ball and chain that is the nationals around his ankle (seriously.. the nats? who really gives a ****... i don;t know why the libs don't just run against them in the few seats they still hold and wipe them out). I'll be happy to wax lyrical about the finer points of greens policy over a beer or three (organic of course) at the pub.


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## wynnum1 (16/9/15)

jlm said:


> And the latest estimates also indicate that the original FTP model would have blown out to 78-84 billion according to NBN co (queue cries of Bill Morrow is a liberal party stooge.....Bring back Quigley) so either the govt cap would have to dramatically increase or NBN co would have to raise a significantly large amount of cash to complete that existing network (and they already have to find another 5-15 billion) to which would throw all the above figures significantly out of whack. I'm not arguing anywhere that business' don't need FTP, just its a waste trying to connect the majority of homes via FTP.
> 
> *And also, it will be interesting to see what the returns will actually be...........could be higher or lower, I'm not trying to say that their bullshit but it is a complete unknown until the network is completely finished. We'll find out down here first I suppose. Thank you Julia for those delicious barrels of pork.


Build it and they will come like inproved roads and a few months later back to traffic problems movie streaming is the same increases traffic and even with nbn will slow down they have not got very far with the nbn .


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## kaiserben (16/9/15)

Every time I see this thread headline "Goodbye Tony" I, unfortunately, can't help but think of that fat bastard Clive Palmer and his youtube inanities.


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## madpierre06 (16/9/15)

Apparently he could put 'em together pretty well, though. Go down to the taxpayer funded gym and take it out on the bags.


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## manticle (16/9/15)

pist said:


> Emissions taxing/trading to begin with. That is a stupid idea. It doesn't achieve anything.....


Whether or not you agree with the ideas or think it's a bad policy is not really the issue. It's the constant descriptions of greens and their policies as lunatic that is questioned. ETS is hardly nutjob material. As much disdain as I have for Abbot, I'd hardly describe him as a lunatic.

Fair enough you disagree with some of their policies or think hanson young is an idiot for conflating fictional tv shows with reality but lunatic is a strong descriptor.
Kim jong-il maybe.


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## Black Devil Dog (17/9/15)

Had a bit of a play around with Caption Generator and did a Abbott as Hitler video.

Drew some inspiration from some of the posts on here and hopefully it's taken in the light-hearted way it's meant.

Tried to post it to YouTube, but I couldn't get it to co-operate, so the video is on the Caption Generator site.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/9/15)

hahaha ****, nicely done, had a good chuckle.


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## seamad (17/9/15)

good laugh.
found this little animation today 
Like the revolving door with r-g-r-a-t


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## Airgead (18/9/15)

That loud crash you heard from Canberra.... that was Shorton's hopes and dreams being shattered.

He'll have to pull his finger out and actually develop some policies and personality rather than trying to be not tony.


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## pcmfisher (18/9/15)

Tony Abbots cringeworthy moments. You gotta laugh


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## seamad (18/9/15)




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## real_beer (19/9/15)

I've got to vote today and once again I wont be giving it to either of the major parties.

I started out as a Labour voter in the seventies and then became a swinging voter in the eighties. Over the years I've tended to favour the Labour vote more than Liberal but the last two elections I've been unable too vote for any of them.

Over the years I've always respected people I may not like but are passionate and stand up for what they believe in as the way forward for Australia. Now however I don't know what any of them stand for besides themselves.

Oh well let's see what unfolds over the next twelve months with Malcolm and what's his name, the Labour leader, but if they go to the next election early I'll once again have to give my vote to another minor party. I really hope the young people getting into politics now have more substance than this lot and bring the best out of Australia as a nation for my grand kids too grow up in.


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## Liam_snorkel (19/9/15)

I usually find out who the candidates are and research them as individuals before making a decision.


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## malt and barley blues (19/9/15)

I agree with you real_beer, of late we have had too many ego tripping prime ministers, the current one included, I think Abbott thought he was doing the right thing but unfortunately being a buffoon doesn't sit well with voters.
I would suspect Turnbull would have waiting for his moment which he knew would come, even in the first attempted overthrow of Abbott in Feb Turnbull was posturing around like a cat who had got the cream, and when the Bronwyn Bishop fiasco was in full swing he caught a train to Corangamite, making sure the media were in place to record it. Definitely a man one shouldn't trust, Shorten fits that bill too


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## Blind Dog (19/9/15)

real_beer said:


> ...and then became a swinging voter in the eighties.


No idea what your sex life has to do with anything


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## real_beer (19/9/15)

Blind Dog said:


> No idea what your sex life has to do with anything


Unfortunately in the eighties my wife had me neutered and my old fella seemed to start slowly shrinking from then on, it definitely wasn't big enough too swing much with sexually speaking anyway :huh:


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## madpierre06 (19/9/15)

Beer did that to mine....and cold water.


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## Blind Dog (19/9/15)

Way too much information


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## malt and barley blues (20/9/15)

I always wanted to be a swinger, but looking at my wife, I realised I didn't have much bargaining power. :unsure:


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## malt and barley blues (20/9/15)

We have had an Abbott, we have had a Bishop, looks like we now have a pope.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/9/15)

Pope Mal


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## SBOB (20/9/15)

appointing a woman to be 'Minister of Women'.... I'm not sure this new guy knows what he is doing...


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## Bribie G (23/9/15)

From today's Guardian.
I would wholeheartedly agree with the British PM but I think he really should have used the c word not the p word.


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## Tropico (23/9/15)

Ah, now I realise. the only way to get rid of Peta, was to get rid of Tony


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## Rod (23/9/15)

do you realize 

Tony

only lost by the votes of 2 people

The margin was 10 votes

the people that voted against Tony

1 the smiling assassin

2 lady Macbeth

3 the helicopter pilot

4 the cannot swear on the bible fella, Brutus 

the other 2 to votes for Tony would mean 2 less for malcolm 

6 more for Tony giving him 51 votes

6 less for Malcolm giving him 49 votes

but

interesting

3 where those that planned the event

1 was a lady that that did wrong and expected to get away with it 

the other 2 , who knows

just seems a few votes can make the difference


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## manticle (23/9/15)

That's quite lovely when you put a tune to it.


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## Tropico (23/9/15)

The other two are the helicopter pilot's lackeys. The don't have the smarts to make a decision themselves, so they do what Bronwyn tells them.

49 all


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