# Long Term Hop Storage



## real_beer (29/9/09)

A few people involved in the current Hop Bulk Buy might want to evaluate this solution for storing their hops when they arrive. It does require a small investment but with the price saved on the cost of the hops could be worth considering. No doubt a lot af people are already doing this but it doesn't hurt to put it out there in case others find it useful.

I ordered one of these Eurolab Food Vacuum Sealers at Deals Direct (on Monday when they had an extra deal with free shipping):
http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/eurolab-food-vacuum-sealer-keeps-food-fresh-longer/​The majority of feedback for the item is positive and as it has a 3 month warranty anyone using one to package 5kg of hops into small packs would soon know if they had a dud or not. There are obviously other models out there in the market but this one suited my price range. 

*** Please note that if you buy from Deals Direct using a credit card the order goes straight through with no way of canceling it even if you change your mind straight away, apparently if you use PayPal and the funds aren't transfered to them within 5 days the order cancels out automatically. ***
Also I do acknowledge that some people will see $90 as a major investment not a small one so I'm just relating this to my own situation.

You can pack into the plastic bags supplied with the machine, just cut them to the size you want and reseal. If however you want to pack into Mylar bags the two YouTube clips below are great to watch. And remember if you carefully open the hops you buy from your local HBS you can reseal them again and again until they become too small to use.




I plan to tip hops into a bucket purged with Carbon Dioxide and pack from there.
In future if the Vacuum Sealer works okay I also plan to store some of my grains in Mylar bags, apparently some food products can last 20 to 30 years, and mice don't like it, so that's a bonus.

:icon_offtopic: Can you be off topic in your own post? :unsure: . 
The latest Basic Brewing Video Show is great, hops, hops and more hops!!!!​http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=video​


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## peas_and_corn (29/9/09)

I've been tempted for a while to get a vacuum sealer- the deterioration of my NS hops being one motivating factor right now- but haven't gotten around to it. Aan they seal up the packaging hops from places such as Craftbrewer and Beerbelly use? I don't want to have to keep buying their special, expensive bags.


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## real_beer (29/9/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> I've been tempted for a while to get a vacuum sealer- the deterioration of my NS hops being one motivating factor right now- but haven't gotten around to it. Aan they seal up the packaging hops from places such as Craftbrewer and Beerbelly use? I don't want to have to keep buying their special, expensive bags.



You can buy rolls of Mylar and make your own bags up if you like. One company I saw on the net the other day tells people to reuse their bags (like the ones Maggi Coconut Milk powder comes in). I've just started looking into the Mylar side of things myself but I think craft shops & some restaurant suppliers might also sell it. The plastic bags that you get with these vacuum sealers are still good for the job though.


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## Back Yard Brewer (29/9/09)

Personally I did not mind spending a few extra bucks and buying my sunbeam sealer. It has had quite a thrashing in the 12 months that I have had it. Not just with hops but cheese meat etc. 
The point with hops is never more valid. I feel a lot more at peace knowing that I have taken extra steps to seal in their freshness.

BYB


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## haysie (29/9/09)

I reckon $90 is a major investment for a lot of folk here. 
Why or how do you think a cryovac pack of hops is better than the sealed open pack I bought from  and freezed it. How long do really want to keep these things? Or is it insurance against shit.


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## peas_and_corn (29/9/09)

haysie said:


> I reckon $90 is a major investment for a lot of folk here.
> Why or how do you think a cryovac pack of hops is better than the sealed open pack I bought from  and freezed it. How long do really want to keep these things? Or is it insurance against shit.



Is it really sealed if it's open?

But being serious, even when I try to wrap up my hops as much as possible, I get a noticeable drop is aroma characters after being in the freezer for a while.


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## haysie (29/9/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Is it really sealed if it's open?
> 
> But being serious, even when I try to wrap up my hops as much as possible, I get a noticeable drop is aroma characters after being in the freezer for a while.



Never bought cryovac hops from above sponsors with a pin hole, leak? If so, done well. Australia post issue more than the supplier.


Come in spinner.


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## peas_and_corn (29/9/09)

OK, but what has that got to do with getting a vacuum sealer?


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## glaab (29/9/09)

haysie said:


> Never bought cryovac hops from above sponsors with a pin hole, leak? If so, done well. Australia post issue more than the supplier.
> 
> 
> Come in spinner.



wtf does all that mean?


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## peas_and_corn (29/9/09)

glaab said:


> wtf does all that mean?



Thank goodness, I thought it was just me who was confused.


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## brando (29/9/09)

haysie said:


> Never bought cryovac hops from above sponsors with a pin hole, leak? If so, done well. Australia post issue more than the supplier.
> 
> 
> Come in spinner.




I think I understand the question/point, and no, I've never had a pin hole leak (from Craftbrewer).


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## I like beer (29/9/09)

vacum packed some hop pellets and some hop cones this arvo and if you havn't got a sealer find some one who has. The difference is amazing. Any links to these mylar bags


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## glaab (29/9/09)

I like beer said:


> vacum packed some hop pellets and some hop cones this arvo and if you havn't got a sealer find some one who has. The difference is amazing. Any links to these mylar bags



I been thinking of buying a sunbeam vac for a while but the bags are so fuggin expensive.
Anyone got a source for cheaper bags?


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## BobtheBrewer (29/9/09)

real_beer said:


> A few people involved in the current Hop Bulk Buy might want to evaluate this solution for storing their hops when they arrive. It does require a small investment but with the price saved on the cost of the hops could be worth considering. No doubt a lot af people are already doing this but it doesn't hurt to put it out there in case others find it useful.
> 
> I ordered one of these Eurolab Food Vacuum Sealers at Deals Direct (on Monday when they had an extra deal with free shipping):
> http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/p/eurolab-food-vacuum-sealer-keeps-food-fresh-longer/​The majority of feedback for the item is positive and as it has a 3 month warranty anyone using one to package 5kg of hops into small packs would soon know if they had a dud or not. There are obviously other models out there in the market but this one suited my price range.
> ...




I know I was out of touch for a couple of months but what "hop bulk buy"?


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## townsville (29/9/09)

Birkdale Bob said:


> I know I was out of touch for a couple of months but what "hop bulk buy"?



oh dear your out of touch.

Probably the biggest most exciting Bulk Buy of the modern era

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=37472

Craftbrewer


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## jimi (29/9/09)

I've been looking at vacuum sealers for a while now too and have held off because I haven't been completely sure which ones work out cheaper with bags and allow resealing. From my own research I was gathering that those which use the 'nozzle' system where the ones which could reuse 'any' bag as they didn't rely on some channeling pattern in the plastic bags to remove the air (and therefore didn't require special channeled bags).
Can those with vac sealers that use 'any' bags & reseal used bags confirm or correct my thinking?


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## BennyBrewster (29/9/09)

This type of machine is far better as it used th nozzle system like commercial vaccum sealers.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FOOD-SAVER-VACUUM-H...id=p3286.c0.m14


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## jimi (29/9/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> This type of machine is far better as it used th nozzle system like commercial vaccum sealers.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FOOD-SAVER-VACUUM-H...id=p3286.c0.m14



The SINBO looks almost identical (nozzle use) and is about $30 cheaper. Anyone use this?


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## b_thomas (29/9/09)

Have you thought about using the smallest size of travel bags (I think "space saver" bag is a more correct term) to seal up your hops? I think they're roughly $10 from Big-W. Whilst in they larger sizes they're probably best suited to shrinking Ski Jackets to fit in backpacks but I'd imagine they'd do a the same job as a vacuum sealer and at a 1/10th of the price


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## real_beer (29/9/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> This type of machine is far better as it used th nozzle system like commercial vaccum sealers.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FOOD-SAVER-VACUUM-H...id=p3286.c0.m14



I like the look of it and the fact their prepared to back it up with a 365 day warranty.


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## pdilley (29/9/09)

SINBO is identical machine right down to the specificaions and warranty. Just different importer oem stickon on the same exact unit case. Only difference is price at $69 and cheaper shipping. The other one includes 50'assorted bags but if Mylar is the king then I'd want to go with $69 and spend the savings on getting a stock of Mylar.

Sunbeam won't list specifications even in their manual so unless an owner can pipe in with a vaccuum pressure rating I would go with the $69 option myself.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pokolbinguy (29/9/09)

Brewer pete...where can you get the SINBO unit for $69???


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## pdilley (29/9/09)

I found it searching with google using sinbo and eBay.com.au I believe, did this a about 30 minutes ago, should have saved the link but it's there and sold out of Melbourne as well. Funny enough even the wording seems alike to the other units seller which is also in Melbourne.

Bring both up side by side and compare the units and their specifications and it will look and read identical except for the stickon in te upper left corner of the case.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## jimi (29/9/09)

pokolbinguy said:


> Brewer pete...where can you get the SINBO unit for $69???



ebay - there always seems to be a couple going at the 'buy it now' price of $69

-pete is quicker


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## pdilley (29/9/09)

http://myworld.ebay.com.au/es1161

This guy sells them for $69 with 20 bags.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Sammus (29/9/09)

I just noticed a few of those nozzle style ones say 0.035MPa which is 35kPa, but then other channel style ones like http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vacuum-Food-Saver-H...emZ300350989064 say 85kPa... what kind of pressure is normal for these? That's a big difference.

a it of research shows sunbeam is a 35kPa, with pretty much every other model around 80, and commercial ones going into the 90s.

an expensive source for the nozzle sealer, but fairly good on bags, also stocking foil bags:

http://www.thepackagingcentre.com.au/categ...s-150mm-x-200mm


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## pdilley (30/9/09)

He's now got 9 left at 69 

If I'm going to get 500-900 worth of hops through the bulk buy for 50 to 60 or so, then I can drop 69 on a sealer.

I take it the foil bags at packing centre are really Biaxially-oriented polyethylene terephthalate (boPET)? 

If so I'll have to stock up on some before the hops are a done deal.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete



EDIT: Looks like this video is the go for sealing Mylar bags with hops inside using a standard vacuum bag trick.


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## Sammus (30/9/09)

lol you mean mylar? I wouldn't have a clue, but you can get clear mylar too (like baking bags) the foil looking ones seem more popular for hop storage, though I've seen both types used extensively.


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## KillerRx4 (30/9/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> http://myworld.ebay.com.au/es1161
> 
> This guy sells them for $69 with 20 bags.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the heads up. Grabbed 1 of them...

Keep up the discussion & find the cheapest source for bags etc


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## OLDS2006 (30/9/09)

I don`t know how these prices go for rolls as they go by weight not length.
http://www.qispackaging.com.au/Category/plastic-tubing


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## real_beer (1/10/09)

I like beer said:


> vacum packed some hop pellets and some hop cones this arvo and if you havn't got a sealer find some one who has. The difference is amazing. Any links to these mylar bags



As usual most of the sites with the products & information are in America. The address below gives an insight into Mylar bags and some pricing. 
http://www.sorbentsystems.com/mylar.html
​On another issue.
Home Smoked Grains: I hear its best to smoke grains about two days before you use them for the ultimate flavour experience. With this in mind it would be interesting to see if vacuum packing could considerably extend this period. If it does, its another way for a vacuum sealer to earn its keep.


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## pdilley (1/10/09)

OLDS2006 said:


> I don`t know how these prices go for rolls as they go by weight not length.
> http://www.qispackaging.com.au/Category/plastic-tubing



Could be a go for other sealing purposes but you want foil/mylar/boPet for long term storage rather than ldpe as with plastics in general they have higher gas permiability than glass and the first ones are the better plastics for protecting the sealed hops from oxidation over time as they sit until being used.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## QldKev (1/10/09)

real_beer said:


> I like the look of it and the fact their prepared to back it up with a 365 day warranty.



I got one of these for my b'day. I have sealed about 20 bags with it, and now it is dead. 

Read the warranty terms.
"Back to base warranty. Customer is to pay all postage / handling costs BACK TO BASE and RETURN TO CUSTOMER. "

So there goes another 40 odd bucks to get it fixed... not happy jan!

QldKev


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## glaab (1/10/09)

does a sunbeam foodsaver need sunbeam bags?, wont it work with generic bags or rolls like these?
http://www.qispackaging.com.au/Category/plastic-tubing


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## QldKev (1/10/09)

glaab said:


> does a sunbeam foodsaver need sunbeam bags?, wont it work with generic bags or rolls like these?
> http://www.qispackaging.com.au/Category/plastic-tubing



Sunbeam, you need channel bags, most prob the cheapest sourse is

http://www.thepackagingcentre.com.au/categ...EALERS/products

QldKev


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## Sammus (1/10/09)

glaab: should work with any of the channel bags, that tubing looks like its probably flat on both sides. you need the stuff that is embossed or it can't suck the air out properly.


real_beer: that site also sells the ebay nozzle machine people have been linking to
http://sorbentsystems.com/sinbosealer.html

except they want about $100USD for it... still cant imagine how that person is selling for $69aud


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## porky (1/10/09)

QldKev said:


> I got one of these for my b'day. I have sealed about 20 bags with it, and now it is dead.
> QldKev



Mate,
Why don't you bring it over....someone else gave me one that didn't work (it is a sumbeam)...I fixed it so now I have two.
We might be able to fix yours??
No guarantee, but worth a look.
Cheers,
Bud


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## I like beer (1/10/09)

try pulling to bits Kev not much in them, just some silicon tube , a cheap nasty filter and what look like the rubber diaframs out of a fish tank airator. Ours stoped working after Mrs Beer vac packed tuna and the juice cloged the filter and hoses so i injected idophor through it till it ran out the back, no problem since. ps we also got a spare heater bit with it. Was a$70 cheapy and had it nearly 3 years


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## Pete2501 (1/10/09)

This is a great idea!... For when I eventually have enough hops on site that need storage.


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## real_beer (1/10/09)

QldKev said:


> I got one of these for my b'day. I have sealed about 20 bags with it, and now it is dead.
> 
> Read the warranty terms.
> "Back to base warranty. Customer is to pay all postage / handling costs BACK TO BASE and RETURN TO CUSTOMER. "
> ...


The Bastards always get you one way or another. I suppose these types of guarantee are only worth while on more expensive things where the return costs are a fraction of the overall value. 

To be honest I was going to get a vacuum sealer about 12 months ago but some peoples comments about their reliability eventually put me off. But with a lot of hops on the way I decided most of the people on the Eurolab forum gave positive feedback about the sealer and the thing looks pretty simple to pull apart and (if the pump wasn't blown) get going again. So I adopted the same attitude as 'Budwiser' & I 'Like Beer' have in the posts below and ordered one. 

About 20 years ago Simpson wanted $450 to send someone out to replace a gearbox in a washing machine that cost $600 new, (small drops of oil were getting into the washing bowl) after telling them to go f*ck themselves I decided that if I was going to have to junk it I might as well have a go at fixing it myself. After explaining the situation to a repair shop near where I worked he told me that the problem would be the Bowl Seal, sold me the parts & lent me a special spanner to do the job. $16.50 & a 6 pack later the thing ran like a charm for another eight years, since then I always take the same attitude with my and other peoples stuff (thats why you can get so many good buys at the recycling tips.

I know you shouldn't have to when the things under warranty but you might as well pull it to pieces yourself and have a try at getting it to go again.


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## jimi (2/10/09)

Mylar is the packaging that craftbrewer, G & G etc use with their hops, right??


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## Sammus (2/10/09)

One would assume so. I think all those foil bags are foil lined mylar. Mylar is normally clear.


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## pdilley (2/10/09)

You just have to ask or find out how thick the foil is. If you get the low density coating of aluminium similar to what the party balloons have then you won't get any long shelf life from the bags as they have pinprick holes in the foil layer.

The mylar alone won't get you anything, so its the thickness of the foil that gets you the protection.

So yes, the hop bags in the shops are commercial foil bags. And nothing stopping you from reusing them if you remember to keep them in a drawer after using them to build up a nice collection.


I now have to find a good source for decently thick foil lined commercial mylar and should be set once have both those and the sealer. One batch to run the imported hops and one to run this years hopeful hop harvest from the garden (almost six times as much money invested in the garden hops in rhizomes and soil amendments, lets hope I can get some yield!)



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## philipwebb (2/10/09)

Remember you don't always need the bags either, if the cost of the bags is an issue.

You can purchase the canisters that are virtually infintely reusable with the Sunbeam, not sure about other brands.

I have had mine about three years now and going strong, don't only use it for hops but for my fish, crab meat etc.

cheers

Phil


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## real_beer (2/10/09)

jimi said:


> Mylar is the packaging that craftbrewer, G & G etc use with their hops, right??


Here's some info from http://www.sorbentsystems.com/mylar.html website.

*




*
Mylar is an industrial trademarked brand name that is often confusing. In its basic form, mylar is a CLEAR material made from polyester resin. IMPAK produces MylarFoil bags used in a wide range of industries which require moisture and oxygen barriers to ensure product integrity. Polyester film, ('mylar') when laminated to aluminum foil provides additional barrier properties and higher puncture resistance than any metallized polyester structure. The ubiquitous "mylar" balloons are actually made from metallized polyester, a very lightweight structure in which the aluminum is deposited onto the surface of the polyester (mylar) film in a thickness measured in angstroms ( 1 angstrom = 1/1000th of a human hair). To compare the properties of MylarFoil, review the specifications for PAKVF4 which has a complete layer ( .00035 ) of aluminum foil with a metallized structure like PAKVF2.5M. An aluminum foil layer actils like a FLEXIBLE can providing the best possible barrier properties. Our PAKVF4PC structure has a .0005 foil layer structure that is 6.0 mils thick. The majority of foil structures use only .00028, a thickness rife with pinhole problems.

We have over 60 films available in stock for custom package production. They range from 2.0 to 10.0 mils in thickness, vary from transparent to opaque and include seven stock colors of aluminum foil. 75% of our work orders are for custom sizes, printing, or materials.


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