# Final Gravity



## Dazza_devil (1/11/09)

G'day Brewers,
Just curious on what sort of F.G. readings people are getting when using LDME and Dextrose without kits to brew?
What's your lowest reading achieved and how did you do it?
I've just done an Aussie Pale Ale using a recultured 2 litre Coopers Yeast Starter, 2kgs LDME and 1kg Dextrose added at high krausen and it's lookin all over after 3-4 days @ 1.010. My lowest has been an APA using a kit, LDME and BE2. @ 1.009. I would like to get my F.G.'s a little lower.
Cheers.


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## marlow_coates (1/11/09)

Possibilities to getting a lower FG are:

Use a healthier, bigger yeast starter - will munch through more points.

Use a tougher yeast, or one with a known higher attenuation ability.

Use a yeast nutrient, or add some grains which provide plenty of FAN's for the yeast to perk up.

Go all grain, and control a lower mash temp.

Use more dextrose / sugars and less malt extract.


I had lots of trouble trying to get extract brews down to lower FG's, and it comes down to how many unfermentables are in the malt extract. The trouble is that you can never really control how much maltodextrin is in the extract you buy, and depending on where and who you get it from, the values can differ widely.

It is just one of the restrictions to extract brewing.

If I were still doing extracts I would chose the higher attenuating yeast to fix it up. Some of the belgians can munch pretty low FG's, and if kept in the lower temp can be fairly neutral. Trial and error I suppose.

Good luck,

Marlow


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## Dazza_devil (1/11/09)

marlow_coates said:


> Possibilities to getting a lower FG are:
> 
> Use a healthier, bigger yeast starter - will munch through more points.
> 
> ...



So what's your lowest?


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## marlow_coates (1/11/09)

Haven't gotten an extract brew below 1010.

Marlow


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## Dazza_devil (2/11/09)

So I probably can't expect to get any lower F.G's with a 2:1 ratio of LDMEextrose without using, for example a Trappist Yeast or a higher ratio of dextrose, unless I go AG.

Has anyone got a lower F.G. than 1.009 with an extract?


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## boingk (2/11/09)

To be honest I'm not sure why you'd want much lower than that. 1.010 is a fairly reasonable FG for most lighter beer styles. 1.008 is fine if you're doing a light aussie ale but I wouldn't want to go lower. Most of my beers end up between 1.008 and 1.012

Try Nottingham liquid yeast, or US-05 dry yeast and see how you go. Both of those chew away through brews pretty well.

- boingk


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## MarkBastard (2/11/09)

Can confirm nottingham dry yeast chews through quicker than US05 too.


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## Dazza_devil (2/11/09)

Yeah you are probably right there Boink, around 1.009 is a pretty nice beer. I achieved that with dried US-05 and I've used Nottingham a few times but at low temps. Perhaps if I tried Notto @ 19-20 I would have achieved lower F.G.'s. 
It would be nice to get an Australian Pale Ale down to the AABC Guidelines F.G. of 1.004 - 1.006 though, I don't mind a nice dry ale for something different. 
I don't think there are any fermentables left in my worts @ 1.009 anyway so I guess it wont matter what yeast I use if there is nothing left there for it to eat.
I'm thinking of trying a different brand of LDME before I go AG but the good stuff is expensive and costs an arm and a leg to get over Bass Strait. Money I could be putting toward an AG setup.


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## RobH (2/11/09)

My last two brews - a Coopers Pale Ale, and a Morgans Old - where both with a Lager yeast, ambient temperature between 12-16 degrees celcius (a little high for Lager - I have switched to Ale yeast now the warm weather is here) :: both got to 1010


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## roverfj1200 (3/11/09)

If you pop in an enzyme. You will most likely get down to 1006. 

I use it sometimes. It can add a crisp taste to lagers but removes the body..

Cheers


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## Pennywise (3/11/09)

The problem with dry enzyme is that it can drop too low, leaving no body at all, some people report that it can finish below 1.000  so you really need a means to stop it when you are at your desired gravity. The few times I used it I found it to leave a real harsh taste in the beer as well :icon_vomit:


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## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

Interesting, what's the enzyme called? Does it act as a catalyst?
I probably wouldn't want to use any other ingredients in my brews other than the pure ingredients of beer. Although I did use a touch of licorice extract in a Baltic Porter once. 
Has anyone had any better results with a specific brand of LDME or a LME?


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## Pennywise (3/11/09)

Boagsy, I've no idea what the technical name for it is, but the brew shops just sell it as Dry Enzyme. What it does is break down the more complex sugars that yeast can't chew through into simple ones so they can chew through it, which is why it pretty much leaves the beer with little or no body at all. I suspect that the harsh taste I got when I used it was more of a fussel alcohol.


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## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

So could you compensate the lack of body with the addition of Maltodextrine or would the enzyme convert that as well?


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## rackemup (3/11/09)

Hi

I got my coopers wheat beer down to 1006 after ~2 weeks in primary

cheers :icon_chickcheers:


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## Dazza_devil (4/11/09)

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='547304' date='Nov 3 2009, 11:48 PM']Hi

I got my coopers wheat beer down to 1006 after ~2 weeks in primary

cheers :icon_chickcheers:[/quote]


Good effort.
How's abouta recipe and method?


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## Pennywise (4/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> So could you compensate the lack of body with the addition of Maltodextrine or would the enzyme convert that as well?



Not sure actually, anyone else care to chime in?


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## boingk (4/11/09)

Good point on the maltodextrin. I'd steer clear of the enzymes though, too many vaired reports. 

Have you tried racking to secondary to drop a few SG points? Its often done that for me in the past, not to mention it gives a clearer brew at bottling time.

- boingk


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## rackemup (4/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> Good effort.
> How's abouta recipe and method?




No probs
from memory it was a tin of thomas coopers wheat, tin of coopers liquid wheat malt, safale wb-06 yeast, topped up to 20ltrs and fermented at around 18-20c. after fermentation slowed right down (about 9-10 days after pitching) i threw in 5 grams of hallertau hersbrucker hops. I think these hops work well with wheats and the beer came out smelling nicely. Simple recipe but a good one imo, cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## rclemmett (4/11/09)

Homebrewer79 said:


> Not sure actually, anyone else care to chime in?



I'm pretty sure to something like 85%.... I think the A and B enzymes break down the long chain or complex sugars, But I'm no scientist.

Which makes me think that if you threw it in the mash it could be converted... But why would you do that.


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## Dazza_devil (4/11/09)

boingk said:


> Good point on the maltodextrin. I'd steer clear of the enzymes though, too many vaired reports.
> 
> Have you tried racking to secondary to drop a few SG points? Its often done that for me in the past, not to mention it gives a clearer brew at bottling time.
> 
> - boingk




I tried racking to secondary once Boingk, never budged. Same goes for a gentle stir. I reckon it's the fermentability of my LDME but the beers are still nice though.
I doubt if I would go the enzyme route, I prefer to use only the pure ingredients of beer.

I guess adding maltodextrine would put the FG up anyway.


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## rackemup (4/11/09)

Sorry, i forgot to add - always boil up the kit yeast as nutrient for your other yeast, i think it gets the fermentation of to a quicker, stronger start which should help get a lower fg


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## Muggus (4/11/09)

According to my logs, i've had an extract pilsner go down to 1.006 using WLP802 Czech Budejovice.
Left it in secondary for a month and it just did its thing. Very dry and bitey bitterness.


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## Dazza_devil (4/11/09)

Muggus said:


> According to my logs, i've had an extract pilsner go down to 1.006 using WLP802 Czech Budejovice.
> Left it in secondary for a month and it just did its thing. Very dry and bitey bitterness.




Interesting Muggus.
Would you have a recipe?
What sort of extract did you use?


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## Muggus (5/11/09)

Pretty simple recipe...quite a while ago though.

Simple used an ESB Czech Pilsner Kit 3.0kg up to 20L, not sure if they make this anymore...
And yeah, pitched a vial of White Labs Czech Budejovice Lager Yeast WLP802 at 18 degrees, and let it ferment at 12 degrees for 3 weeks, then into secondary for 3 more weeks.


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## harry72 (5/11/09)

So here is a really silly noob question - what is the benefit of a low final reading? Isn't it relative to where it starts?


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## Muggus (5/11/09)

Hazwald said:


> So here is a really silly noob question - what is the benefit of a low final reading? Isn't it relative to where it starts?


Like you mentioned, it is all relative. 
But one thing is certain with a low FG, a dry body. In other words, your beer will not be sweet. Generally this will allow hops (particularly their bitterness) to shine through more prominantly. On the negative side, a good malt body tends to hide a high alcohol percentage better than a dry body, so keep that in mind.
Other than that, a low FG may allude to your beer having a lean body, ie quite thin texture particularly if the alcohol isn't high.


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## zebba (5/11/09)

Half a tin Coopers Wheat Malt
Full tin morgans masterblend lager malt
300g LDME
200g Dextrose
US05
21 litres

20g Amarillo @ 60
20g Willamette @ 60
15g Willamette @ 15
20g Willamette @ 1

OG 1046
FG 1008 - in 4 days @ 18 degrees! Never had one take off like that. Ever. Bottled after 1 week, drinking 1.5 weeks after, and it's loverly. I _really_ like this one, and the turnaround was ridiculously quick!

Biggest delta though was my case swap beer for the Vic lads this Christmas (full recipe in Vic case swap recipe thread):
3.?kg LDME (dodgy scales, so not 100%)
60g Carapils
100g Dark Crystal

OG 1067
FG 1010 - 2 weeks, and it just kept bubbling slowly the whole time. I expected it to bottom out @ 1016-1018... Crazy stuff for an all malt.


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## Dazza_devil (5/11/09)

Zebba said:


> Half a tin Coopers Wheat Malt
> Full tin morgans masterblend lager malt
> 300g LDME
> 200g Dextrose
> ...




That first recipe looks delicious Zebba, perhaps the wheat malt is a contributing factor to your low reading there. I've never tried the Morgans Lager malt or Coopers Wheat malt. What's in the Morgan's Masterblend Lager malt?


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## zebba (6/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> That first recipe looks delicious Zebba, perhaps the wheat malt is a contributing factor to your low reading there. I've never tried the Morgans Lager malt or Coopers Wheat malt. What's in the Morgan's Masterblend Lager malt?


According to their webpage: "Contains 100% 2 Row Barley Lager Malt being 1350g of barley malt.".

All I know is, I was looking for a quick extract brew that would be an easy drinking summer beer, and I wanted to steer clear of dry extract as I was trying to pinpoint a strange flavour in my last few brews (chalky, toothpaste like flavour - very mild, and you had to be looking for it, but it was there) (the LDME addition was for the hop boil). I'm calling it a success, as it didn't need a month+ of conditioning to get it very drinkable, and no chalk flavour in sight


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## Dazza_devil (6/11/09)

Zebba said:


> According to their webpage: "Contains 100% 2 Row Barley Lager Malt being 1350g of barley malt.".
> 
> All I know is, I was looking for a quick extract brew that would be an easy drinking summer beer, and I wanted to steer clear of dry extract as I was trying to pinpoint a strange flavour in my last few brews (chalky, toothpaste like flavour - very mild, and you had to be looking for it, but it was there) (the LDME addition was for the hop boil). I'm calling it a success, as it didn't need a month+ of conditioning to get it very drinkable, and no chalk flavour in sight




Did you dry pitch 12g US05?


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## zebba (6/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> Did you dry pitch 12g US05?


Yup @ 22 deg


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