# Group Brew by Correspondence



## n87 (3/10/16)

As a carry on from the last thread, it looks like this is the activity that got most interest, so, now on to figure out what to brew and the 'rules'

Things to discuss:
What to brew? hoppy, malty, yeasty, ageable?
Ingredients? do we want to limit it to the same brand of malts, batch of hops? adjuncts?

Styles suggested in the last topic:
Bitter
scottish ale
porter
saison,
Hef,
kolsh,
altbeir
Beire de garde
Irish red


My thoughts:

I would go for something that reaches its prime in 3-12 months given the likelyhood that it will take that long to get another meet going to taste them
I think it would also be good to do a beer that is new to everyone, or atleast the majority
It would be cool to have everyone using the same brand/batch of malt and hops, its not realistic, but we could always order the spec grain and hops in 'bulk' and split to cut down on costs fo those who dont have stock.
Same yeast is something that I would vote for

My votes:
Scottish Ale
Beire de Garde
Irish Red


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## [email protected] (3/10/16)

Preference voting:
1: Biere de Garde
2: Scottish Ale
9: Irish red


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## fungrel (4/10/16)

1. Scottish Ale
2. Bitter 
3. Saison


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## n87 (4/10/16)

Well if we are doing it that way:

1 Beire de Garde
2 Irish Red
3 Scottish Ale


by the lores of 3,2,1 points, our totals:

6 Beire de Garde
6 Scottish Ale
2 Bitter
2 Irish Red
1 Saison


endisnigh, Is that you voting against an Irish Red? or forgetting what number comes after 2?


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## silvana (4/10/16)

1. Altbier
2. Scottish
3. Beier de Garde


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## n87 (4/10/16)

8 Scottish Ale
7 Beire de Garde
3 Altbeir
2 Bitter
2 Irish Red
1 Saison


Looks like Scottish is winning.... just.
I didnt realise there are 3 Scottish ale styles (in AABC)
Light Scotch Ale
Scottish Ale
Strong Scotch Ale (wee heavy)
:s


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## [email protected] (4/10/16)

Ah - my mistake - I thought it was down to 3 beers, and I was doing my best to bury Irish Red (an insipid beer that should never see the light of day ever ever ever).

Given that I'd like to remove my Irish Red vote and apply it to Saison instead


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## Dubzie (5/10/16)

3. scottish ale
2. porter
1. kolsh,


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## n87 (5/10/16)

Dubzie said:


> 3. scottish ale
> 2. porter
> 1. kolsh,


Hey mate, which order is this in? are you assigning points, or standing on your head?


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## gone brewing (5/10/16)

1 bitter
2 biere de garde
3 porter


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## n87 (5/10/16)

11 Scottish Ale
9 Beire de Garde
5 Bitter
3 Altbeir
3 Porter
2 Irish Red
2 Saison
1 Kolsh


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## [email protected] (5/10/16)

Nope nope nope - you can't just add 3 to Scottish Ale - it's not point voting, it's preference voting


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## [email protected] (5/10/16)

Cheater


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## n87 (5/10/16)

endisnigh said:


> Nope nope nope - you can't just add 3 to Scottish Ale - it's not point voting, it's preference voting


That requires an awful lot of thinking.... that and scotch would be winning still anyway


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## Nicstars (9/10/16)

Hello,

Everyone that I don't know, I'm Rob's ex-work colleague and keen new brewer. I'm hoping to join you in this brew off.

My top 3 choices would be: 

1. Beire de garde
2. Saison
3. Kolsh


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## n87 (9/10/16)

Hi Nickstars, Welcome.

Looks like the Beire de Garde has taken the lead by a whisker. I think we will have to call it mid next week, lets say Wednesday 12th, then we have to work out recipes.

12 Beire de Garde
11 Scottish Ale
5 Bitter
4 Saison
3 Altbeir
3 Porter
2 Irish Red
2 Kolsh


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## gone brewing (9/10/16)

Sounds good Brydon. Is the plan to brew a fixed recipe and use whatever yeast we think suits, as you would with a group brew, or fix the yeast strain as well?


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## n87 (9/10/16)

I'm up for whatever everyone agrees on, but I tend to lean towards Yogi's point that our different processes will create different enough beers.


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## mr_wibble (11/10/16)

I want to group-brew an "imperial porter" , but then age it in a bundaberg rum barrel.
How do we get a barrel ?


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## n87 (11/10/16)

Something like that would be really cool.
I would've thought doublebock aged in whisky, but great idea for a future activity, would be cool to have a club barrel. Would be an epic bottling day tho.


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## silvana (11/10/16)

Some ESB guys recently got a lark Whisky barrel via a member who owns a meadery. Pretty sure it's a once/twice a year opportunity, he orders them for the meadery and if you want in then just pay him for the barrel and chip in for shipping. 
Next time it comes up I'll let everyone know.


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## silvana (11/10/16)

Bier de garde is a pretty curious style. Very open but restrained in most areas apart from malt dominance.
Reading farmhouse ales book which half is devoted they only present 2 recipes one is a simple macro type version with 2 malts and the 2nd the more farmhouse with 5 or 6 malts. OG of commercial examples seem mostly in the 1.060-70 range with 80-85% attenuation.
Heavy on malt flavour but some use sugar to dry the finish. Yeast seems to be cold ale or warm lager, minimal low fruity esters. Minimal hops just enough for balance. 4-6 week lagering.

I'm liking the idea of right in the middle 1.065, which will be about 7-7.5 abv. Grain bill from the book or could use Jamils classic styles I'll vote for dry yeast, lager, warmish ferment temp. Saaz,
Hallertauer,?? hops 20-25IBU

Never had any intention of brewing this style, but reading about it, sounds great!


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## silvana (11/10/16)

Grain bill from Farmhouse brews

Pilsner 75%
Munich 15%
Aromatic 5%
Amber or biscuit 1.2%
Cara Visenna or Munich 3.5%
Debittered black (carafa) 0.3%


Ideas? Inclusions? exclusions?


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## [email protected] (12/10/16)

Yogi Beer said:


> Some ESB guys recently got a lark Whisky barrel via a member who owns a meadery. Pretty sure it's a once/twice a year opportunity, he orders them for the meadery and if you want in then just pay him for the barrel and chip in for shipping.
> Next time it comes up I'll let everyone know.


This would be very cool


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## [email protected] (12/10/16)

The farmhouse ales recipe looks good - I prefer dry so yes to the sugar, but in general happy to follow your lead.


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## silvana (12/10/16)

I like dry also - 5-8% sugar is listed as the normal range.


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## n87 (12/10/16)

Beire de Garde it is!

that grain bill looks fine, and I am all for a 7-8% abv finish.

I was thinking that maybe Duane may be able to make up some recipe packs for us if we wanted to keep all the same ingredients depending on availability and willingness.
Otherwise we organise our own ingredients.

Yeast? BYO suggests belgian yeast and the mad fermentist goes for the Kolsh
http://byo.com/malt/item/217-bi%C3%A9re-de-garde-style-profile
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/09/biere-de-garde-all-grain-recipe.html

Hops: Saaz, Hallertauer are fine by me, maybe Styrian Goldings?

Sugar in kettle or fermenter is fine by me. the last couple of brews (tripel and saison) I have added 0.5kg table and raw sugar respectively per batch in the fermenter.


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## n87 (12/10/16)

Yogi Beer said:


> Some ESB guys recently got a lark Whisky barrel via a member who owns a meadery. Pretty sure it's a once/twice a year opportunity, he orders them for the meadery and if you want in then just pay him for the barrel and chip in for shipping.
> Next time it comes up I'll let everyone know.


That would be good, do you have any rough numbers?

I will create a new thread for this one so it doesnt muddy the current thread. Does sound promising, and something great to do.


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/92734-group-brew-oak-barrel/


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## Dubzie (12/10/16)

n87 said:


> Hey mate, which order is this in? are you assigning points, or standing on your head?


Thought we were doing 3,2,1's 

1 scottish ale
2 porter
3 kolsh

Edit: LOL didnt read the next page before replying!


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## silvana (12/10/16)

That would Scottish for the win after the siren....
I'm kinda committed the the Bier de garde though.

I think Belgian yeast is out of place, everything I read emphasises low subtle esters. Either cool fermented kolsh or warmish lager. Complete malt bomb of a beer with a nice dry finish.
I was thinking dry yeast as it takes the starter element out of the equation, one less variable and not sure if everyone is using liquid yeast. If the masses want kolsch I'm in as I need to brew another kolsch too.
We could just add the 5% sugar on top of the recipe bring it up to 1.070?
I have all the ingredients so don't really need a kit, depends on how people adjust recipes for their system. I'll be doing my usual 8L so if it's a uniform kit it won't work for me anyway.


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## n87 (12/10/16)

Dubzie's vote has already been counted 


OK, so own ingredients.
I'm happy with dry yeast, its what I use 90% of the time.


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## fungrel (13/10/16)

Yogi Beer said:


> I'll be doing my usual 8L so if it's a uniform kit it won't work for me anyway.


I'm thinking grain percentages and IBU contributions as a way of keeping things uniform.


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## Nicstars (18/10/16)

Oh interesting.. hadn't thought about yeast temperature and beer choice. I might have to think about that some more once final beer selection made.


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## Peter80 (18/10/16)

I have been watching with interest but I am unsure if I will be able to join in due to work issues. What date are you guys looking at for finish product?


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## n87 (18/10/16)

I would expect to have the beer in its final vessel by the end of the year so we can compare first meet 2017... or something.
I dont think its going to be that strict, but the closer everyone packages their beer, the easier it will be to compare.


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## fungrel (18/10/16)

I'm happy to go with whatever we all agree on.

I'd like it if we keep fermentation temp up to the brewer, along with water additions/packaging method. Maybe the universal guidelines should be something like:


malt/adjunct percentages
IBU contribution (overall, non-specific)
Yeast selection
Target OG
Target brew date (+/- a week or two??)
Am I missing anything?


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## n87 (18/10/16)

So we all good on the malt bill Yogi suggested?

Pilsner 75%
Munich 15%
Aromatic 5%
Amber or biscuit 1.2%
Cara Visenna or Munich 3.5%
Debittered black (carafa) 0.3%

Add 5-8% sugar (table? raw?) in fermenter or kettle?


I was also thinking maybe Belle Saison fermented cold might give a truer historical result
It is a more subtle saison yeast from my understanding.


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## n87 (18/10/16)

fungrel said:


> I'm happy to go with whatever we all agree on.
> 
> I'd like it if we keep fermentation temp up to the brewer, along with water additions/packaging method. Maybe the universal guidelines should be something like:
> 
> ...


I would say target package date, I will be brewing as soon as the malt and hops are solid and cubing.

I wont be saying ferment at 15C, but a suggestion of 'low' or 'high' gives a good indication with some room to move.


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## silvana (18/10/16)

Fungrels guideline list looks good to me.
I like the idea of leaving the mash and the ferment to the brewer. We never really came with a clear purpose for this group brew.
Are we trying to all make the exact same beer or show the effects equipment and process can have on a given recipe?
Same recipe and yeast, the rest is brewer discretion.
My yeast vote is a (dry) lager strain as everything I've read indicates this is most common method used.
A period of 4-6 weeks lagering is the norm also (regardless of yeast used) so I'm thinking we brew in the 1st or 2nd week of November, well and truely ready for a mid to late Jan sampling.


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## n87 (19/10/16)

W-34/70?


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## n87 (19/10/16)

Just to put it into numbers that everyone should understand (and to work out my shopping list) i have thrown it into beersmith, and you end up with something like this:

5.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 69.7 % 
1.00 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 13.9 % 
0.33 kg Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC) Grain 4.6 % 
0.23 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 3.3 % 
0.08 kg Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 1.1 % 
0.02 kg Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (630.4 EBC) Grain 0.3 % 
0.50 kg Dememera Sugar (3.9 EBC) Sugar 7.0 % 

this should get you in the region of 1.070 on a standard batch at 75% eff


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## silvana (19/10/16)

I'm pretty happy with W-34/70, ill probably ferment at 16c then ramp up after a few days.


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## silvana (19/10/16)

Recipe looks good to me. I'll be using a mix
of castle and wyermann malts as I already have them. 
Are we happy brewing 1st - 2nd week of November?
How many participants do we have?


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## n87 (20/10/16)

Were we locking in the hops, or just the IBU?


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## gone brewing (20/10/16)

I'm in. I think we should standardise the hops and the target IBU. How about a 90 min boil to get to 25 IBU with Saaz? I vary between 60 or 90 min bolis and I think the longer boil is better here for a bit of malt complexity.


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## gone brewing (20/10/16)

I haven't used W34/70 before. I'm just checking out the spec sheet and it says to use 80-120/hL (which is 0.8-1.2g/L) for temps of 12-15 degrees Celsius. So for a 20L batch I could use 2 packets, or 23g, for a pitching rate of 1.15g/L then ferment at 15 degrees.

But there is no mention of varying this according to OG. If we are aiming for an OG of 1.070 can I stay with 23g or should I do another batch with a lower OG first to build up yeast numbers.

Any thoughts?


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## n87 (20/10/16)

My (award winning ) Porter was 1.070, done with 2 packs of 34/70
Finished at 1.016, but mashed higher than I would the beire de garde.

You could throw the sugar in the ferment if you were worried, this would make it around 1.060 to start with.


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## gone brewing (21/10/16)

n87 said:


> My (award winning ) Porter was 1.070, done with 2 packs of 34/70
> Finished at 1.016, but mashed higher than I would the beire de garde.
> 
> You could throw the sugar in the ferment if you were worried, this would make it around 1.060 to start with.


Thanks, sounds like a plan.


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## [email protected] (21/10/16)

All looks very good to me - and I haven't had to say anything 

Looking forward to it!


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## n87 (21/10/16)

So single addition of Saaz at 90min to 25 IBU?
or a small ~15 min addition aswell?

Im happy with either


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## silvana (21/10/16)

I think any noble hop for 20-25 IBU at 90 or 60 mins will work. The hops are pretty much non existent other than to balance the malt sweetness. "Hop flavour is uncommon and described as barely there" from the farmhouse ales book.
If adding late hops I would say 30 -20 mins. You don't want much flavour and no aroma from them.
I'm thinking I won't add any late hops just a bittering charge.


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## gone brewing (21/10/16)

Yogi Beer said:


> I think any noble hop for 20-25 IBU at 90 or 60 mins will work. The hops are pretty much non existent other than to balance the malt sweetness. "Hop flavour is uncommon and described as barely there" from the farmhouse ales book.
> If adding late hops I would say 30 -20 mins. You don't want much flavour and no aroma from them.
> I'm thinking I won't add any late hops just a bittering charge.


Agreed. I'm planning on a 90min addition to get to 25 IBU and nothing else.


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## n87 (22/10/16)

OK. Recipe as follows:

OG: 1.070
batch size: 23L ~75% eff

5.00 kg Pilsner Malt 69.7 %
1.00 kg Munich Malt 13.9 %
0.33 kg Aromatic Malt 4.6 %
0.23 kg Caramunich/vienna 3.3 %
0.08 kg Amber/Biscuit Malt 1.1 %
0.02 kg Debittered Black (Carafa) 0.3 %
0.50 kg Sugar 7.0 %

94g @90mins Saaz 25 IBU

2pk Saflager W-34/70


Low temp mash suggested to help it dry out
90min boil
sugar added either in the kettle or fermenter if you want to go easy on the yeast
Lagered for 3-4 weeks before packaging

Recipe blog here: http://ccbrewers.wixsite.com/ccbrew/single-post/2016/10/22/Recipe-Bi%C3%A8re-de-Garde


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## fungrel (22/10/16)

gone brewing said:


> Agreed. I'm planning on a 90min addition to get to 25 IBU and nothing else.


I'm with you there.

Will sort the brew for the case swap then get onto this. First few weeks of Nov. sounds good to me.


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## n87 (22/10/16)

Sorry, that should be 4-6 weeks lagered... Should have checked beforehand.... ah well.


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## fungrel (24/10/16)

Question.. Are we or can we be permitted to use a secondary yeast? Happy to use 34/70, but upon checking the AABC guidelines it says that this style is related to Belgian Saison with attenuation rate 80–85% and low to moderate esters.


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## silvana (24/10/16)

The only relation to Saison it has is geography and the term "farmhouse". I never realised it until this group brew and I kept reading about it. This beer is basically a slightly estrery lagered malt bomb.
Sugar, low mash temp and letting the ferment temp rise should do the trick for attenuation, and fermenting warmish 16-17c for some esters.

Saying that, I'm the only one pushing lager yeast with N87 and now Fungrel voting Saison. 

Do the other participants want to cast a vote?


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## [email protected] (24/10/16)

I vote for staying true to style - that way we get to learn the style too.


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## gone brewing (24/10/16)

Ask 5 brewers a question and get 10 different answers...

I was thinking that S-33 would be a good choice for this style. It's fairly low on esters with a neutral flavour, depending on what temps are used. Not very attenuative though. US-05 would be another choice that comes to mind, also with a neutral profile and a bit more attenuative.

My vote would be to have people use whatever yeast they thought was good for style and we can appreciate the differences that brings. Should we make a list of what people are using to aim for no duplication??

But if people want to keep the yeast uniform to better evaluate process variation then I'm also OK to go along with that.


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## [email protected] (24/10/16)

And now I vote for gone brewing's idea. How easily swayed am I?


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## fungrel (25/10/16)

I'm with gone brewing's idea of whatever yeast we think is appropriate for style.

I'm happy to organize one or two of the beers from the bjcp/aabc list so that we can make a comparison on the day.


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## silvana (25/10/16)

Clearly, brewers choice for the yeast is the winner so let's lock that in.
I'm going to stick with 34/70 and maybe split the batch for a 2nd yeast, kolsch if I'm organised, something dry if I'm not.
Some commercial examples is a great idea Fungrel. Let us know which ones you get, I work close to Barneys and I know they have one or two.
It's going be a big day of tasting. Who's brewing the IIIPA for when need some hops


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## n87 (25/10/16)

I just picked up a bottle of Bridge Road's version from Dans... may have to grab another so I can drink this one 

I would really like to do one with the French Ale yeast, but apparently its seasonal and i missed it by 6 months 
I may do a double and leave one cube till the yeast comes out again.

I guess i will go with belle saison, in my experience it gives a subtle saison flavour, so should hopefully suit well.


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## n87 (25/10/16)

I have just read that using a wheat beer yeast at low temps may be the go too
I would imagine that would limit the spicy, while letting through a little fruit


3 monts is a wonderful beer (from memory... i had allot of Belgian beer that night)


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## fungrel (25/10/16)

I am yet to use any of the Mangrove Jack's yeast, think i will get experimental and combine M47 and 34/70.

Just need to read up on the best way to approach fermenting with a lager and ale yeast.


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## n87 (25/10/16)

That could be interesting.... ferment at ~16C


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## n87 (29/10/16)

Mashing mine in now. Doing me a double batch, thinking of leaving one cube until the French Ale yeast is released again from white labs.

Will start fermenting end of next weekish, depending on when my summer ale moves out of the ferm fridge.


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## n87 (29/10/16)

Colour looks good


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## n87 (29/10/16)

Well, I knew it was going too well.
Ended up with a 3 hour mash cause wifey decided to go shopping. I think it worked in my favour.
Ran out of gas in the middle of the boil, so ended up boiling for somewhere between 70 and 120 mins.

Anyway, managed to get it done, a little less than ideal, but depending on the OG, I can always top up when I put the sugar in.


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## gone brewing (30/10/16)

You were on to that quick. I only just got my grain ordered.


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## n87 (30/10/16)

Ordered mine during the week and got it on Thursday.

I wasn't going to do it this weekend, but I ended up with more time than I expected, so I jumped on the opportunity.
Benefits of grain and hop stocks along with cubing.

Used the water filter for the first time as well. Hoping for a good'n


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## fungrel (31/10/16)

I currently have my best arm in a cast, so it's likely that the brew will be considerably later than most. 

Kegged a batch on Saturday and that was a disaster.


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## n87 (31/10/16)

Well that was bad planning.
Pending on what I'm doing on the weekend, I may be able to drop round and give You a hand.... no pun intended...


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## n87 (2/11/16)

First cube in the fermenter. Spot on 1.060, no topping up for me.
Pitched 2 packs of Belle saison.
Will be throwing the second cube on top tomorrow after the yeast has had time to get jiggy.
Fermenting at 17C, so hopefully it will get some saison fruitiness but not a whole heap.

Sample tastes like a wurthers original....

The sugar will be going in as the activity starts to lapse.

Can't wait to taste this one


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## [email protected] (2/11/16)

Yours will be horrible


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## n87 (2/11/16)

I knew you would have faith in me 
My 1 saving grace is that all of you have to drink it too. Mwahahahha


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## silvana (3/11/16)

You can always blame the recipe too!
All things going to plan I'll be brewing this weekend.


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## n87 (7/11/16)

got wifey picking up the Bridge Roads Biere de Garde from dans now for the tasting.

How is everyone's brew going?
Mine is fermenting slow, as to be expected putting a saison yeast at 17C. Got to 1.030 the other day.
samples are tasting pretty great... I just want to measure the gravity constantly


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## [email protected] (7/11/16)

I'm stalled - if things go well I'll order ingredients tonight, and if things continue to go well I'll brew at the weekend!!


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## n87 (7/11/16)

Let me know if you need anything, I have most of the grain bill stocked (now).


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## fungrel (8/11/16)

n87 said:


> got wifey picking up the Bridge Roads Biere de Garde from dans now for the tasting.
> 
> How is everyone's brew going?
> Mine is fermenting slow, as to be expected putting a saison yeast at 17C. Got to 1.030 the other day.
> samples are tasting pretty great... I just want to measure the gravity constantly


Tried that beer the other day.. I'm 95% sure its WY1272 under the hood as I've been using that yeast a lot recently. 
Definitely as it is described on their website.. got a lot going on from the malt side, but it is tasting very clean which is what i was not expecting for this style.


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## n87 (9/11/16)

Brought it up to 20C over the last couple of days to help it finish off, currently at 1.008
Just waiting for the sugar water to cool down so I can add it, then wait a few days and start dropping the temp to 1C for 6ish weeks.

the sample is really moreish. malty aroma with a hint of some fruit. It has some spice which i hope will mellow with the lagering, but finishes with a nice sweet malt... but dry at the same time.
The hydro sample never stood a chance :chug:

By the looks of it, mine is going to be way over the 7.5% aim, likely due to the yeast eating up a little more than was planned. I am prob looking at ~8.5% before priming.... ah well, just need less of it before falling down 


Has anyone else got theirs on yet?
Dont worry, the main reason I got mine on so early is so i can package some up for chrissie presents. the 6 week lager dictated that.


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## mr_wibble (10/11/16)

Any chance you could post the Beersmith recipe (or send to the mailing list), that .bsmx thingy.

I need to pull my finger out as it were. Will get the grain today.


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## silvana (10/11/16)

I'm brewed and cubed. Will probably pitch the yeast tomorrow. Totally unorganised so no split batch for me just 34/70 at 16 or 17c


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## n87 (10/11/16)

Mr Wibble said:


> Any chance you could post the Beersmith recipe (or send to the mailing list), that .bsmx thingy.
> 
> I need to pull my finger out as it were. Will get the grain today.


Hi Wibs,

The recipe is listed here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/92648-group-brew-by-correspondence/page-3#entry1411321



n87 said:


> OK. Recipe as follows:
> 
> OG: 1.070
> batch size: 23L ~75% eff
> ...


Yeast is dealers choice.

I could put my beersmith file up, but mine is for a double batch so you would likely have to mess around with it more than you would just adding it.
Still, let me know if you want it.


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## gone brewing (10/11/16)

I've justed started the boil as I write this and planning to pitch tomorrow.


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## mr_wibble (10/11/16)

I'll try to start it tomorrow ~5am.

Scheduled to do the, uh, Lake Macquarie Annual XMas Brew on Sunday too - The Gingerbread Ale from the recipe in Nov 2016 "Brew Your Own" magazine.

I'm going to have to juggle fermentation-fridge space a bit, the smoked apple ale is ready to finish, might just leave that out at room temperature for a few days. And I guess I can move the Gulden Draak clone from the 60L into a 20L since I accidentally siphoned ~20 litres into the dirt while dealing with a hop-clogged plate chiller


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## n87 (10/11/16)

sounds like you are doing more juggling than me.

Hope the Gulden Draak turns out, I do seem to remember that was quite a nice beer.


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## Nicstars (10/11/16)

I've done mine. Almost been in the fermenter for a week. I should have waited, or changed the yeast. My poor flat mate is struggling with switching ice packs in and out 3 times a day to try and keep it blow exploding temperature!


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## mr_wibble (12/11/16)

I had the mother of all stuck sparges on that wort.
Must have stirred the 3rd sparge grain-bed a bit too roughly, could not get the bloody thing to flow again.
I even tried pumping wort I'd already taken off, back up the tap - didn't budge it.

After an hour of dicking about with it, I dumped the lot into my big mash tun - that fixed it for sure.

Found the elbow on the esky mash-filter-plate was clogged with malt.

Then I got to wash up two mash tuns, hooray.

Anyway, the batch is in the fermenter. I'll do the sugar addition once it's goin' like the clappers.


----------



## mr_wibble (12/11/16)

Nicstars said:


> I've done mine. Almost been in the fermenter for a week. I should have waited, or changed the yeast. My poor flat mate is struggling with switching ice packs in and out 3 times a day to try and keep it blow exploding temperature!


Geeze that would have been an unenviable task today.

First I thought we were going to be washed away, and then by the afternoon we all were half cooked.


----------



## n87 (14/11/16)

Mine is down to 1.003.
Currently set to 0.5C for its nap time

Still tasting wonderful


----------



## fungrel (14/11/16)

Going to put this one down on Saturday. 

Has anyone modified their water for this brew? I was thinking a softer profile.


----------



## n87 (14/11/16)

I filtered my water for the first time... does that count


----------



## gone brewing (14/11/16)

I added 7g of calcium chloride to the mash (BIAB).


----------



## fungrel (14/11/16)

n87 said:


> I filtered my water for the first time... does that count


That counts. Was it RO, did you add anything back?

I am leaning towards something soft, more chloride than sulfate.


----------



## n87 (14/11/16)

fungrel said:


> That counts. Was it RO, did you add anything back?
> 
> I am leaning towards something soft, more chloride than sulfate.


Just 2 stage, 0.5 micron carbon block.
Nothing added


----------



## mr_wibble (14/11/16)

fungrel said:


> Going to put this one down on Saturday.
> 
> Has anyone modified their water for this brew? I was thinking a softer profile.


Yeah I added calcium chloride and calcium sulphate. Might have added some chalk too - don't have my brewsheet here.
But (as discussed previously) our tank water is very acidic, and devoid of nearly everything. Mash pH was 5.6. Don't remember the modified water pH, maybe 5.4? almost same as the mash.


----------



## fungrel (22/11/16)

Pitched K-97 yesterday with loads of pure o2. Was violently doing it's thing this morning. 
Intending to lager on French Oak staves, and bottle with Brett C.


----------



## gone brewing (22/11/16)

Mine's been down for 12 days, started at 1.063 and today was at 1.007, so quite high attenuation to give a beer that's about 7.6%. A couple more days at 19 degrees then I'll cc it for a week or two. I used US05.


----------



## n87 (22/11/16)

Mine is down to 1.000.... been lagering for a week now.


----------



## gone brewing (22/11/16)

n87 said:


> Mine is down to 1.000.... been lagering for a week now.


Will that make it around 9%? Gonna have a kick to it.


----------



## n87 (22/11/16)

gone brewing said:


> Will that make it around 9%? Gonna have a kick to it.


Round about there.
Just hoping it doesn't end up rocket fuel.... it's my Christmas presents


----------



## [email protected] (23/11/16)

Just ordered my ingredients!!! yay me.

better late than never. 

On the bright side, mine will be fresher than yours.


----------



## [email protected] (24/11/16)

Who wanted the brew smith xml file? Attached.

```
<Selections><_MOD_>2016-11-24</_MOD_>
<Name>Selections</Name>
<Type>7372</Type>
<Dirty>1</Dirty>
<Owndata>0</Owndata>
<TID>1</TID>
<Size>1</Size>
<_XName>Selections</_XName>
<Allocinc>16</Allocinc>
<Data><Recipe><_MOD_>2016-11-24</_MOD_>
<F_R_NAME>Biere de Garde</F_R_NAME>
<F_R_BREWER>Rob</F_R_BREWER>
<F_R_ASST_BREWER></F_R_ASST_BREWER>
<F_R_DATE>2016-11-23</F_R_DATE>
<F_R_INV_DATE>1990-06-01</F_R_INV_DATE>
<F_R_FOLDER_NAME></F_R_FOLDER_NAME>
<F_R_VOLUME_MEASURED>640.0000000</F_R_VOLUME_MEASURED>
<F_R_FINAL_VOL_MEASURED>640.0000000</F_R_FINAL_VOL_MEASURED>
<F_R_MASH_TIMER>0</F_R_MASH_TIMER>
<F_R_BOIL_TIMER>0</F_R_BOIL_TIMER>
<F_R_MTIMER_DOWN>4620</F_R_MTIMER_DOWN>
<F_R_BTIMER_DOWN>3600</F_R_BTIMER_DOWN>
<Image></Image>
<F_R_IMAGE_X>0</F_R_IMAGE_X>
<F_R_IMAGE_Y>0</F_R_IMAGE_Y>
<F_R_EQUIPMENT><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_E_NAME>Single Batch All Grain</F_E_NAME>
<F_E_MASH_VOL>2366.9679479</F_E_MASH_VOL>
<F_E_TUN_MASS>282.1917440</F_E_TUN_MASS>
<F_E_BOIL_RATE_FLAG>1</F_E_BOIL_RATE_FLAG>
<F_E_TUN_SPECIFIC_HEAT>0.4500000</F_E_TUN_SPECIFIC_HEAT>
<F_E_TUN_DEADSPACE>67.6276557</F_E_TUN_DEADSPACE>
<F_E_TUN_ADJ_DEADSPACE>1</F_E_TUN_ADJ_DEADSPACE>
<F_E_CALC_BOIL>1</F_E_CALC_BOIL>
<F_E_BOIL_VOL>1098.2731279</F_E_BOIL_VOL>
<F_E_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_E_BOIL_TIME>
<F_E_OLD_EVAP_RATE>9.0000000</F_E_OLD_EVAP_RATE>
<F_EQUIP_39>1</F_EQUIP_39>
<F_E_BOIL_OFF>236.6967948</F_E_BOIL_OFF>
<F_E_TRUB_LOSS>84.5345696</F_E_TRUB_LOSS>
<F_E_COOL_PCT>4.0000000</F_E_COOL_PCT>
<F_E_TOP_UP_KETTLE>0.0000000</F_E_TOP_UP_KETTLE>
<F_E_BATCH_VOL>743.9042122</F_E_BATCH_VOL>
<F_E_FERMENTER_LOSS>96.0312710</F_E_FERMENTER_LOSS>
<F_E_TOP_UP>0.0000000</F_E_TOP_UP>
<F_E_EFFICIENCY>65.0000000</F_E_EFFICIENCY>
<F_E_HOP_UTIL>100.0000000</F_E_HOP_UTIL>
<F_E_NOTES>70L Esky and 70L kettle, for a single 19L batch</F_E_NOTES>
</F_R_EQUIPMENT>
<F_R_STYLE><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_S_NAME>Biere de Garde</F_S_NAME>
<F_S_CATEGORY>Belgian and French Ale</F_S_CATEGORY>
<F_S_GUIDE>BJCP 2008</F_S_GUIDE>
<F_S_LETTER>4</F_S_LETTER>
<F_S_NUMBER>16</F_S_NUMBER>
<F_S_TYPE>0</F_S_TYPE>
<F_S_MIN_OG>1.0600000</F_S_MIN_OG>
<F_S_MAX_OG>1.0800000</F_S_MAX_OG>
<F_S_MIN_FG>1.0080000</F_S_MIN_FG>
<F_S_MAX_FG>1.0160000</F_S_MAX_FG>
<F_S_MIN_IBU>18.0000000</F_S_MIN_IBU>
<F_S_MAX_IBU>28.0000000</F_S_MAX_IBU>
<F_S_MIN_CARB>2.3000000</F_S_MIN_CARB>
<F_S_MAX_CARB>2.9000000</F_S_MAX_CARB>
<F_S_MIN_COLOR>6.0000000</F_S_MIN_COLOR>
<F_S_MAX_COLOR>19.0000000</F_S_MAX_COLOR>
<F_S_MIN_ABV>6.0000000</F_S_MIN_ABV>
<F_S_MAX_ABV>8.5000000</F_S_MAX_ABV>
<F_S_DESCRIPTION>A fairly strong, malt-accentuated, lagered artisanal farmhouse beer. Name literally means &ldquo;beer which has been kept or lagered.&rdquo; A traditional artisanal farmhouse ale from Northern France brewed in early spring and kept in cold cellars for consumption in warmer weather. It is now brewed year-round. Related to the Belgian Saison style, the main difference is that the Bi&egrave;re de Garde is rounder, richer, sweeter, malt-focused, often has a &ldquo;cellar&rdquo; character, and lacks the spicing and tartness of a Saison. Three main variations are included in the style: the brown (brune), the blond (blonde), and the amber (ambr&eacute;e). The darker versions will have more malt character, while the paler versions can have more hops (but still are malt-focused beers). A related style is Bi&egrave;re de Mars, which is brewed in March (Mars) for present use and will not age as well. Attenuation rates are in the 80-85% range. Some fullerbodied examples exist, but these are somewhat rare.</F_S_DESCRIPTION>
<F_S_PROFILE>Aroma: Prominent malty sweetness, often with a complex, light to moderate toasty character. Some caramelization is acceptable. Low to moderate esters. Little to no hop aroma (may be a bit spicy or herbal). Commercial versions will often have a musty, woodsy, cellar-like character that is difficult to achieve in homebrew. Paler versions will still be malty but will lack richer, deeper aromatics and may have a bit more hops. No diacetyl.
Appearance: Three main variations exist (blond, amber and brown), so color can range from golden blonde to reddishbronze to chestnut brown. Clarity is good to poor, although haze is not unexpected in this type of often unfiltered beer. Well-formed head, generally white to off-white (varies by beer color), supported by high carbonation.
Flavor: Medium to high malt flavor often with a toasty, toffeelike or caramel sweetness. Malt flavors and complexity tend to increase as beer color darkens. Low to moderate esters and alcohol flavors. Medium-low hop bitterness provides some support, but the balance is always tilted toward the malt. The malt flavor lasts into the finish but the finish is medium-dry to dry, never cloying. Alcohol can provide some additional dryness in the finish. Low to no hop flavor, although paler versions can have slightly higher levels of herbal or spicy hop flavor (which can also come from the yeast). Smooth, welllagered character. No diacetyl.
Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-light (lean) body, often with a smooth, silky character. Moderate to high carbonation. Moderate alcohol, but should be very smooth and never hot.</F_S_PROFILE>
<F_S_INGREDIENTS>The &ldquo;cellar&rdquo; character in commercial examples is unlikely to be duplicated in homebrews as it comes from indigenous yeasts and molds. Commercial versions often have a &ldquo;corked&rdquo;, dry, astringent character that is often incorrectly identified as &ldquo;cellar-like.&rdquo; Homebrews therefore are usually cleaner. Base malts vary by beer color, but usually include pale, Vienna and Munich types. Kettle caramelization tends to be used more than crystal malts, when present. Darker versions will have richer malt complexity and sweetness from crystal-type malts. Sugar may be used to add flavor and aid in the dry finish. Lager or ale yeast fermented at cool ale temperatures, followed by long cold conditioning (4-6 weeks for commercial operations). Soft water. Floral, herbal or spicy continental hops.</F_S_INGREDIENTS>
<F_S_EXAMPLES>Jenlain (amber), Jenlain Bi&egrave;re de Printemps (blond), St. Amand (brown), Ch&rsquo;Ti Brun (brown), Ch&rsquo;Ti Blond (blond), La Choulette (all 3 versions), La Choulette Bi&egrave;re des Sans Culottes (blond), Saint Sylvestre 3 Monts (blond), Biere Nouvelle (brown), Castelain (blond), Jade (amber), Brasseurs Bi&egrave;re de Garde (amber), Southampton Bi&egrave;re de Garde (amber), Lost Abbey Avante Garde (blond)</F_S_EXAMPLES>
<F_S_WEB_LINK>http://www.bjcp.org</F_S_WEB_LINK>
</F_R_STYLE>
<F_R_MASH><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_MH_NAME>Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out</F_MH_NAME>
<F_MH_GRAIN_WEIGHT>234.9246269</F_MH_GRAIN_WEIGHT>
<F_MH_GRAIN_TEMP>72.0000000</F_MH_GRAIN_TEMP>
<F_MH_BOIL_TEMP>212.0000000</F_MH_BOIL_TEMP>
<F_MH_TUN_TEMP>72.0000000</F_MH_TUN_TEMP>
<F_MH_PH>5.4000000</F_MH_PH>
<F_MH_SPARGE_TEMP>168.0000000</F_MH_SPARGE_TEMP>
<F_MH_BATCH>0</F_MH_BATCH>
<F_MH_BATCH_PCT>100.0000000</F_MH_BATCH_PCT>
<F_MH_BATCH_EVEN>0</F_MH_BATCH_EVEN>
<F_MH_BATCH_DRAIN>0</F_MH_BATCH_DRAIN>
<F_MASH_39>1</F_MASH_39>
<F_MH_TUN_DEADSPACE>67.6276557</F_MH_TUN_DEADSPACE>
<F_MH_BIAB_VOL>640.0000000</F_MH_BIAB_VOL>
<F_MH_BIAB>0</F_MH_BIAB>
<F_MH_NOTES>Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).</F_MH_NOTES>
<steps><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<Name>steps</Name>
<Type>7432</Type>
<Dirty>1</Dirty>
<Owndata>1</Owndata>
<TID>7149</TID>
<Size>1</Size>
<_XName>steps</_XName>
<Allocinc>16</Allocinc>
<Data><MashStep><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_MS_NAME>Mash In</F_MS_NAME>
<F_MS_TYPE>0</F_MS_TYPE>
<F_MS_INFUSION>587.3218434</F_MS_INFUSION>
<F_MS_STEP_TEMP>149.0000000</F_MS_STEP_TEMP>
<F_MS_STEP_TIME>75.0000000</F_MS_STEP_TIME>
<F_MS_RISE_TIME>2.0000000</F_MS_RISE_TIME>
<F_MS_TUN_ADDITION>67.6276557</F_MS_TUN_ADDITION>
<F_MS_TUN_HC>0.4500000</F_MS_TUN_HC>
<F_MS_TUN_VOL>2366.9679479</F_MS_TUN_VOL>
<F_MS_TUN_TEMP>72.0000000</F_MS_TUN_TEMP>
<F_MS_TUN_MASS>282.1917440</F_MS_TUN_MASS>
<F_MS_START_TEMP>0.0000000</F_MS_START_TEMP>
<F_MS_GRAIN_TEMP>72.0000000</F_MS_GRAIN_TEMP>
<F_MS_START_VOL>0.0000000</F_MS_START_VOL>
<F_MS_GRAIN_WEIGHT>234.9246269</F_MS_GRAIN_WEIGHT>
<F_MS_INFUSION_TEMP>165.1205685</F_MS_INFUSION_TEMP>
<F_MS_DECOCTION_AMT>0.0000000</F_MS_DECOCTION_AMT>
</MashStep>
</Data>
<_TExpanded>1</_TExpanded>
</steps>
<F_MH_EQUIP_ADJUST>1</F_MH_EQUIP_ADJUST>
<F_MH_TUN_VOL>2366.9679479</F_MH_TUN_VOL>
<F_MH_TUN_MASS>282.1917440</F_MH_TUN_MASS>
<F_MH_TUN_HC>0.4500000</F_MH_TUN_HC>
</F_R_MASH>
<F_R_BASE_GRAIN><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Malt</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN></F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER></F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>0</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>0.0000000</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>16.0000000</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>3.0000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>75.0000000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>0.0000000</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>0</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.5000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>4.0000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>120.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>11.7000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>0</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>100.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES></F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>1.5000000</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN></F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</F_R_BASE_GRAIN>
<F_R_CARB><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_C_NAME>Keg</F_C_NAME>
<F_C_TEMPERATURE>39.2000000</F_C_TEMPERATURE>
<F_C_TYPE>1</F_C_TYPE>
<F_C_PRIMER_NAME>Forced Carbonation</F_C_PRIMER_NAME>
<F_C_CARB_RATE>100.0000000</F_C_CARB_RATE>
<F_C_NOTES>Keg with forced carbonation which is the method used by most home brewers with kegs</F_C_NOTES>
</F_R_CARB>
<F_R_AGE><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_A_NAME>Ale, Two Stage</F_A_NAME>
<F_A_PRIM_TEMP>67.0000000</F_A_PRIM_TEMP>
<F_A_PRIM_END_TEMP>67.0000000</F_A_PRIM_END_TEMP>
<F_A_SEC_TEMP>67.0000000</F_A_SEC_TEMP>
<F_A_SEC_END_TEMP>67.0000000</F_A_SEC_END_TEMP>
<F_A_TERT_TEMP>65.0000000</F_A_TERT_TEMP>
<F_A_AGE_TEMP>65.0000000</F_A_AGE_TEMP>
<F_A_TERT_END_TEMP>65.0000000</F_A_TERT_END_TEMP>
<F_A_END_AGE_TEMP>65.0000000</F_A_END_AGE_TEMP>
<F_A_END_TEMPS_SET>1</F_A_END_TEMPS_SET>
<F_A_PRIM_DAYS>4.0000000</F_A_PRIM_DAYS>
<F_A_SEC_DAYS>10.0000000</F_A_SEC_DAYS>
<F_A_TERT_DAYS>7.0000000</F_A_TERT_DAYS>
<F_A_AGE>30.0000000</F_A_AGE>
<F_A_TYPE>1</F_A_TYPE>
<F_A_NOTES></F_A_NOTES>
</F_R_AGE>
<Ingredients><_MOD_>2016-11-24</_MOD_>
<Name>Ingredients</Name>
<Type>7405</Type>
<Dirty>1</Dirty>
<Owndata>1</Owndata>
<TID>7182</TID>
<Size>9</Size>
<_XName>Ingredients</_XName>
<Allocinc>16</Allocinc>
<Data><Grain><_MOD_>2016-11-24</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Pilsner (Weyermann)</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>Germany</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER>Weyermann</F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>521.9106112</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>176.3698400</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>1.7000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>82.2300000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>69.8324022</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>1</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.2000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>4.4000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>110.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>10.9000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>1</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>100.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES>Pilsner base malt for all pilsners, lagers.  Highly modified malt.</F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.0963883</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>Pilsner Liquid Extract</F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Grain><_MOD_>1978-09-07</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Munich, Light (Joe White)</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>Australia</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER>Joe White Maltings</F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>3.0912989</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>35.2739680</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>9.0000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>82.7000000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>13.9664804</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>2</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.5000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>4.8000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>0.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>10.1000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>1</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>50.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES>Light Munich base malt for use in many German styles as well as adjunct for other styles. Marzens, fest beers, bocks and ales. Great malty flavour and aroma.</F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.1842718</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>Amber Liquid Extract</F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Grain><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Melanoidin (Weyermann)</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>Germany</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER>Weyermann</F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>0.0000000</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>11.6404094</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>30.0000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>80.0700000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>4.6089385</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>3</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.5000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>3.8000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>0.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>0.0000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>1</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>20.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES>Red colored malt that improved head retention and stability.  Used in red lagers, ales, dark beers.  Intense red colour and malty aroma.</F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.0781250</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>Carared</F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Grain><_MOD_>1978-09-07</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Vienna Malt</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>Germany</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER></F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>458.5615840</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>8.1130126</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>3.5000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>78.0000000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>3.2122905</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>4</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.5000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>4.0000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>50.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>11.0000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>1</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>90.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES>Kiln dried malt darker than Pale Malt, but not as dark as Munich Malt
Imparts a golden to orange color to the beer.</F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.1842718</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>Pale Liquid Extract</F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Grain><_MOD_>1978-09-07</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Biscuit (Dingemans)</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>Belgium</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER>Dingemans</F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>0.0000000</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>2.8219174</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>22.5000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>70.0000000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>1.1173184</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>5</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>0.0000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>4.5000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>0.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>11.5000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>1</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>15.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES></F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.0781250</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN></F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Grain><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Carafa Special III (Weyermann)</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>Germany</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER>Weyermann</F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>0</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>88.1849200</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>0.7054794</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>470.0000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>75.7400000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>0.2793296</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>6</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.5000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>3.0000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>0.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>10.0000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>0</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>5.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES>De-husked chocolate malt for a smoother flavour. Dark version.  Adds color and aroma. Dark beers, Alts, Bockbiers
</F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.1417475</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN></F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Grain><_MOD_>2016-11-24</_MOD_>
<F_G_NAME>Sugar, Table (Sucrose)</F_G_NAME>
<F_G_ORIGIN>US</F_G_ORIGIN>
<F_G_SUPPLIER></F_G_SUPPLIER>
<F_G_TYPE>2</F_G_TYPE>
<F_G_IN_RECIPE>1</F_G_IN_RECIPE>
<F_G_INVENTORY>0.0000000</F_G_INVENTORY>
<F_G_AMOUNT>17.6369840</F_G_AMOUNT>
<F_G_COLOR>1.0000000</F_G_COLOR>
<F_G_YIELD>100.0000000</F_G_YIELD>
<F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>0.0000000</F_G_LATE_EXTRACT>
<F_G_PERCENT>6.9832402</F_G_PERCENT>
<F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>0</F_G_NOT_FERMENTABLE>
<F_ORDER>7</F_ORDER>
<F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>1.5000000</F_G_COARSE_FINE_DIFF>
<F_G_MOISTURE>4.0000000</F_G_MOISTURE>
<F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>120.0000000</F_G_DIASTATIC_POWER>
<F_G_PROTEIN>11.7000000</F_G_PROTEIN>
<F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>0.0000000</F_G_IBU_GAL_PER_LB>
<F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>0</F_G_ADD_AFTER_BOIL>
<F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>0</F_G_RECOMMEND_MASH>
<F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>10.0000000</F_G_MAX_IN_BATCH>
<F_G_NOTES>White table sugar, or sucrose primarily is used to increase alcohol. Using too much will add a cider flavor to beer.</F_G_NOTES>
<F_G_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_G_BOIL_TIME>
<F_G_PRICE>0.0800000</F_G_PRICE>
<F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN></F_G_CONVERT_GRAIN>
</Grain>
<Hops><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_H_NAME>Saaz</F_H_NAME>
<F_H_ORIGIN>Czech Republic</F_H_ORIGIN>
<F_H_TYPE>1</F_H_TYPE>
<F_H_FORM>0</F_H_FORM>
<F_H_ALPHA>6.0000000</F_H_ALPHA>
<F_H_BETA>3.5000000</F_H_BETA>
<F_H_PERCENT>100.0000000</F_H_PERCENT>
<F_H_INVENTORY>3.9506837</F_H_INVENTORY>
<F_H_AMOUNT>1.5873283</F_H_AMOUNT>
<F_H_HSI>42.0000000</F_H_HSI>
<F_H_BOIL_TIME>60.0000000</F_H_BOIL_TIME>
<F_H_DRY_HOP_TIME>0.0000000</F_H_DRY_HOP_TIME>
<F_H_NOTES>Used for: Pilsners and Bohemian style lagers
Aroma: Delicate, mild, clean, somewhat floral -- Noble hops
Substitutes: Tettnanger, Lublin
Examples: Pulsner Urquell</F_H_NOTES>
<F_H_IBU_CONTRIB>27.0645518</F_H_IBU_CONTRIB>
<F_ORDER>8</F_ORDER>
<F_H_USE>0</F_H_USE>
<F_H_IN_RECIPE>1</F_H_IN_RECIPE>
<F_H_PRICE>3.3055544</F_H_PRICE>
</Hops>
<Yeast><_MOD_>1970-01-01</_MOD_>
<F_Y_NAME>Saflager Lager</F_Y_NAME>
<F_Y_LAB>DCL/Fermentis</F_Y_LAB>
<F_Y_PRODUCT_ID>W-34/70</F_Y_PRODUCT_ID>
<F_Y_TYPE>1</F_Y_TYPE>
<F_Y_FORM>1</F_Y_FORM>
<F_Y_FLOCCULATION>2</F_Y_FLOCCULATION>
<F_Y_STARTER_SIZE>1.7000000</F_Y_STARTER_SIZE>
<F_Y_AMOUNT>2.0000000</F_Y_AMOUNT>
<F_Y_INVENTORY>0.0000000</F_Y_INVENTORY>
<F_Y_PRICE>6.0000000</F_Y_PRICE>
<F_ORDER>9</F_ORDER>
<F_Y_IN_RECIPE>1</F_Y_IN_RECIPE>
<F_Y_BREW_DATE>2016-11-23</F_Y_BREW_DATE>
<F_Y_PKG_DATE>2016-11-23</F_Y_PKG_DATE>
<F_Y_CELLS>200.0000000</F_Y_CELLS>
<F_Y_MIN_ATTENUATION>73.0000000</F_Y_MIN_ATTENUATION>
<F_Y_MAX_ATTENUATION>77.0000000</F_Y_MAX_ATTENUATION>
<F_Y_MIN_TEMP>48.0000000</F_Y_MIN_TEMP>
<F_Y_MAX_TEMP>59.0000000</F_Y_MAX_TEMP>
<F_Y_USE_STARTER>0</F_Y_USE_STARTER>
<F_Y_ADD_TO_SECONDARY>0</F_Y_ADD_TO_SECONDARY>
<F_Y_TIMES_CULTURED>0</F_Y_TIMES_CULTURED>
<F_Y_MAX_REUSE>5</F_Y_MAX_REUSE>
<F_Y_CULTURE_DATE>2011-03-06</F_Y_CULTURE_DATE>
<F_Y_BEST_FOR>European lagers</F_Y_BEST_FOR>
<F_Y_NOTES>A famous yeast strain from Weihenstephan Germany used worldwide in brewing.  Their most popular strain for lagers.</F_Y_NOTES>
</Yeast>
</Data>
<_TExpanded>1</_TExpanded>
</Ingredients>
<F_R_TYPE>2</F_R_TYPE>
<F_R_OLD_TYPE>0</F_R_OLD_TYPE>
<F_R_LOCKED>0</F_R_LOCKED>
<F_R_OG_MEASURED>1.0460000</F_R_OG_MEASURED>
<F_R_FG_MEASURED>1.0100000</F_R_FG_MEASURED>
<F_R_OG_PRIMARY>1.0180000</F_R_OG_PRIMARY>
<F_R_OG_SECONDARY>1.0110000</F_R_OG_SECONDARY>
<F_R_BOIL_VOL_MEASURED>640.0000000</F_R_BOIL_VOL_MEASURED>
<F_R_OG_BOIL_MEASURED>1.0500000</F_R_OG_BOIL_MEASURED>
<F_R_NOTES></F_R_NOTES>
<F_R_RATING>30.0000000</F_R_RATING>
<F_R_DESCRIPTION></F_R_DESCRIPTION>
<F_R_CARB_VOLS>2.3000000</F_R_CARB_VOLS>
<F_R_MASH_PH>5.2000000</F_R_MASH_PH>
<F_R_RUNOFF_PH>6.0000000</F_R_RUNOFF_PH>
<F_R_RUNNING_GRAVITY>1.0100000</F_R_RUNNING_GRAVITY>
<F_R_GRAIN_STEEP_TIME>30</F_R_GRAIN_STEEP_TIME>
<F_R_GRAIN_STEEP_TEMP>155.0000000</F_R_GRAIN_STEEP_TEMP>
<F_R_INCLUDE_STARTER>0</F_R_INCLUDE_STARTER>
<F_R_VERSION>1.0000000</F_R_VERSION>
<F_R_STARTER_SIZE>0.0000000</F_R_STARTER_SIZE>
<F_R_STIR_PLATE>0</F_R_STIR_PLATE>
<F_R_OLD_VOL>640.0000000</F_R_OLD_VOL>
<F_R_OLD_BOIL_VOL>640.0000000</F_R_OLD_BOIL_VOL>
<F_R_OLD_EFFICIENCY>72.0000000</F_R_OLD_EFFICIENCY>
<F_R_DESIRED_IBU>20.0000000</F_R_DESIRED_IBU>
<F_R_DESIRED_COLOR>10.0000000</F_R_DESIRED_COLOR>
<F_R_COLOR_ADJ_STRING></F_R_COLOR_ADJ_STRING>
<F_R_DESIRED_OG>1.0500000</F_R_DESIRED_OG>
<F_R_REBALANCE_SCALE>0</F_R_REBALANCE_SCALE>
</Recipe>
</Data>
<_TExpanded>1</_TExpanded>
</Selections>
```


----------



## n87 (24/11/16)

endisnigh said:


> Just ordered my ingredients!!! yay me.
> 
> better late than never.
> 
> On the bright side, mine will be fresher than yours.


On a 'beer to be kept' im not sure that is a good thing


----------



## [email protected] (24/11/16)

You can keep your stinky old beer! Mine's going to be super fresh!!

Bloody 'traditionalists'


----------



## n87 (24/11/16)

Pffft.
Kids these days... everythings gotta be fresh


----------



## [email protected] (3/12/16)

Mashing in. Alarm didn't sound on my Thermapen Chefalarm so I got slowed down a little. 
Got onto their website and chatted w support - 2 mins later they're shipping me a new one. No fuss.


----------



## [email protected] (3/12/16)

n87 said:


> On a 'beer to be kept' im not sure that is a good thing


Only your beer is kept mate


----------



## [email protected] (3/12/16)

Looks like today is equipment failure day - fermentation chamber #2 isn't chilling 

Luckily I have a backup!!


----------



## n87 (3/12/16)

If you had done it earlier, you wouldn't have had these problems


----------



## fungrel (6/12/16)

Stable at 1.013. This recipe is definitely a malt bomb. 

Anyone planning on using bugs?


----------



## n87 (6/12/16)

Not planning on it, Mine is down far enough I think...


----------



## fungrel (6/12/16)

n87 said:


> Not planning on it, Mine is down far enough I think...


9% is definitely enough!


----------



## n87 (6/12/16)

fungrel said:


> 9% is definitely enough!


9% is alright, just if the yeast, or bugs eat any more, its just going to be watery ethanol.


----------



## n87 (6/12/16)

Also, is anyone else planning on swapping bottles?
Would be good to put some of these away for comparison at a later date.


----------



## fungrel (7/12/16)

Planning to bottle half, and keg the other half.

Bottles get a syringe of mixed bugs, and the keg gets French oak.


----------



## gone brewing (7/12/16)

n87 said:


> Also, is anyone else planning on swapping bottles?
> Would be good to put some of these away for comparison at a later date.


Definitely!! I'm keen to see the effect of the different yeasts. We had some discussion about this at the last meeting. There seems to be a whole world of subtle differences that yeast strain can bring to the beer. I guess after playing with different malt combos and hop combos, yeast is the next dimension.


----------



## n87 (19/12/16)

After nearly 5 weeks lagering, mine is bottled and ready for Christmas
Ended up with ~40L
Calculated OG: 1.070 (including priming sugar)
FG: 0.000
ABV: 9.2%


----------



## fungrel (20/12/16)

Mine is on medium French oak and is starting to really, really meld together well.

I thought the recipe tasted average when it was going into the keg but i spoke a little too soon. The aromatic malt has softened and there is zero presence of alcohol except for warming in the finish.

Will be good to swap a few.


----------



## gone brewing (20/12/16)

I cc'd mine for just one week as I needed to get on with making some more. It has been in the bottle for 2 weeks so the other day I stuck one in the fridge and had a taste. I was very happy with the result, a lot of complex matly goodness in the aroma and taste with some soft, spicy hop flavour to balance it.

The only negative for me was a bit too much alcohol (perhaps with some higher alcohols) flavour coming through. It wasn't too overwhelming and I hope this will mellow out a bit with more age. Anyway, a bit of this isn't so unexpected in a beer that ended up around 7.5%. I think this came about due to the fermentation going off a bit too strongly in the early stages as I had dumped this onto a yeast cake from a previous batch.
:kooi:


----------



## n87 (22/12/16)

OK guys, we will have to start thinking about the meet to taste these beauties.

We can either do it as our first meet, alongside our first meet, or as a second meet

I think doing a first meet and beire de garde tasting may be a bit ambitious, I can imagine that the qty of beer may be a bit much...
The advantage of tasting them after the first meet is that it would let them all mature a little more, specially for the ones that decided to leave it till after the last minute (looking at you horse man).

What do you think? Prob should have a meet in Jan or early Feb, be it for this, or a general meet
I may have a few more people to come along aswell


----------



## gone brewing (23/12/16)

Hey all

I don't mind having a bit of a sesh tasting all the beers. It'll be a big day of big beer but hey, always up for a challenge. It will also be good to swap a few and have a bit of quiet time tasting what I made against another brewer's efforts. I think you learn a lot that way.

Anyway, whether it's the first meeting in 2017 or some time later doesn't matter much to me. All good if it's later to allow some to finish off their beer the way they want to.

Cheers to everyone and have a Merry Christmas.
:kooi: :kooi: :kooi:


----------



## mr_wibble (24/12/16)

Geeze, one my 3 bottles was leaking after I knocked it over in the cupboard (18 litres in keg).
I couldn't stop the Sssssss of the gas, so put it in the fridge this morning.

It does taste a bit young, well _very_ young, but the ~8% AbV is rounding that out after half a glass.


----------



## n87 (2/1/17)

One of my stubbies dropped on the ground when I was transferring them to the lockup and got a chip, So it was quarantined and put into the fridge a couple of days before NYE.
Opened it with a friend.... Ima gonna have to make this one again.
Big malt hit, a tiny hint of the spicyness remaining. Alcohol (9.2%) not aparent, but giving it a nice body.
Cant wait for it to get a bit of age on it


----------



## n87 (4/1/17)

OK, So what does everyone think of March to break these bad boys open?

I also have a Bridge Roads and a Batch to sample alongside.


----------



## gone brewing (4/1/17)

Sounds good.


----------



## fungrel (17/1/17)

My first attempt at oaking beer... really should've bought a book or two _before_ attempting. 

Those that have played with wood, does oak mellow in time? will 2 months lagering shave off some of the intensity?


----------



## mr_wibble (1/2/17)

I was thinking about putting a bottle in the Newcastle show.
But it is probably too early.


----------



## n87 (1/2/17)

I am planning on puttin mine in the Newcastle show too. Be interesting to compare the feedback


----------



## fungrel (1/2/17)

I just sent mine into the Melbourne Brewer's contest. The 3 weeks of warm storage before the contest should mean that it hits peak at judging. That's the hope anyway.


----------



## [email protected] (1/2/17)

Bit of an issue - took a bottle out to sample last Saturday, and it hadn't carbed up :|

I'm pretty confident in my bottling/priming process (maybe paranoid is a better word), so I doubt it's that. I'm always especially careful to mix in the sugar solution very thoroughly.
I see from my notes I have:

Carbonating with raw sugar: 153g (17L, 3 vols CO2, 24c)

So - it may be that the yeast doesn't like the "high" alcohol environment (finished at 1.005 which gives me 8.6%). Buuuuuutttt - it's not that high, is it.

Maybe it needs more time? Or the temperatures were wrong for bottle conditioning? (Garage temps, so would have been in the high 20s, low 30's).

Annoying and concerning. Maybe I'll try another bottle  (aside from the lack of fizz, it was very promising, although not exciting)


----------



## n87 (1/2/17)

The question is... when did you bottle it?
I think mine took over 4 weeks to carb up. But mine is approaching 10%


----------



## n87 (13/2/17)

Prob better get the tasting meet organised... for nothing other than I am really excited to try them.

Dates in March:
5th
12th
19th
26th


Hopefully we can get everyone involved together, will be good!


----------



## gone brewing (14/2/17)

I'm busy the 5th but OK otherwise.


----------



## fungrel (15/2/17)

12th is looking to be out for me, rest are fine.


----------



## n87 (21/2/17)

So looking like late march

Dates still available:
19th
26th


As far as people participating, I know of:
n87
gone brewin
fungrel
Mr Wibble
endisnigh

Dubzie?
Nickstars?
Yogi Beer (still cubed AFIAK)

Will send out a msg to all, does anyone know of anyone else joining in?


----------



## [email protected] (21/2/17)

Both of these are slightly up in the air at the moment - I'll have to wait a little longer to see how they work out....

On a good note, I tried another bottle the other day and it was well carbonated (phew)! Needs some age though....


----------



## mr_wibble (21/2/17)

Yeah, I dunno. AFAIK i don't have a blocker on either of those dates.

cheers,
-kt


----------



## n87 (6/3/17)

So the 26th March it is.

Meet discussion continued here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/94440-biere-de-garde-tasting/


----------

