# Slotted Manifold Or Braided Hose ?



## elec (3/5/09)

Evening all, 
I'm in the final stages of cobbling together a 3 vessel set-up for a tilt at AG, am I'd appreciate some guidance on the MLT lautering part. I've got a 45l esky for the job, and was wondering which type of draining system was the most efficient and trouble free. I already have a roll of 5/8 copper in the shed for the slotted manifold, but am happy to purchase some of this braid if it's more effective. I've searched a bit, but can't find a comparison of the two. All suggestions appreciated.

Thanks in advance


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## arogers (3/5/09)

my 2c, FWIW...

been using s/s braid for about a year (the whole time i've been AG'ing.)

never had a stuck sparge, not a problem at all. and efficiency thru the roof. consistently 75-80%.

$10 at mitre 10. cant go wrong - save the copper for a chiller or something


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## sah (3/5/09)

Your roll of copper is annealed and not particularly suitable to make a slotted manifold because it is too malleable.

I suspect a slotted manifold may be better if you plan to fly sparge.

If you plan to batch sparge I don't think there is a significant technical difference between the two.

The braid is less fuss though. You don't have to set it up. You don't have to worry about accidentally causing it to fall apart when you are stirring the mash.

Whatever you do, try and work it so it is sitting on the bottom of your tun.

regards,
Scott

Ps. In a similar system to yours I use a manifold.


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## Pumpy (3/5/09)

They will both do the job, I tried them , but I just love, the 'SS False bottom' 

pumpy


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## Gavo (3/5/09)

SAH said:


> Your roll of copper is annealed and not particularly suitable to make a slotted manifold because it is too malleable.



I have two MLT's, a 15 litre and a 50 litre, (about to pension off the 15 lt). both of these are made out of 1/2 inc annealed copper roll. Malleability has caused no problems.

I get at least 75% efficiency with any brew in both tuns. This is a question that will get you many and varied answers. I went with the copper pipe because that's what was available to me. It works well. I suspect though that you will still need to buy elbows and tee's to join the pipes anyway. I reckon a copper manifold would be more reliable as it will not moove around in the bottom of the tun. It could be set up better in that you can easir acieve an even coverage of the bottom of the tun by laying the pipes out evenly.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## jayse (3/5/09)

Theres no big difference between the two really, whatever will work fine. I agree with gavo's findings though as you could make a good manifold out of that type of copper with no problems, its not like its as floppy as trying to perform after a three day cocaine binge.


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## sah (4/5/09)

Sorry for the advice on the annealed tube. I thought it might have been difficult to get nice straight consistent lengths from it.

regards,
Scott


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## seemax (4/5/09)

I've tried copper manifold, plastic manifold and braid. Efficiency is similar for all when batch sparging. Braid is easy to setup and clean and never gets stucks, just make sure it's flat on the bottom and not floating in the mash. Also the cheapest and doesn't require any hard work (slotting, drilling, soldering, etc).


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## chappo1970 (4/5/09)

+1 Gavo

I have a copper slotted manifold and have been more than happy with it's preformance.

Very simple to make if your handy and have a few tools like a pipe cutter, hacksaw, hammer and a centre punch. I built mine out of 5/8 (19mm) copper tube about 1200mm long IIRC. You will need 4 x 90deg corners and 3 x T pieces.

Finished manifold





Begining the layout





Laying up the job







Showing the slots. It is placed upside down when in use







Good luck


Chappo


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## Screwtop (4/5/09)

seemax said:


> I've tried copper manifold, plastic manifold and braid. Efficiency is similar for all when batch sparging. Braid is easy to setup and clean and never gets stucks, just make sure it's flat on the bottom and not floating in the mash. Also the cheapest and doesn't require any hard work (slotting, drilling, soldering, etc).




Same here, all types, no diff, HOWEVER my first braid manifold suffered a bit from mash paddle abuse and caved in in places. What i finished up with was a round copper manifold covered in braid, best for strength and filtering ability in my opinion. Like pumpy I have been using a SSFB for a long while and find it best *for my system.

Disclaimer: * FOR MY SYSTEM: This would indicate that I have tried other devices in my particular mash tun and found this device suits both the application and current applied process.


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## Screwtop (4/5/09)

Those slots seem a little on the large side there Chappo, hows the efficiency :lol:


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## Gavo (4/5/09)

Chappo said:


> +1 Gavo
> 
> I have a copper slotted manifold and have been more than happy with it's preformance.
> 
> Very simple to make if your handy and have a few tools like a pipe cutter, hacksaw, hammer and a centre punch. I built mine out of 5/8 (19mm) copper tube about 1200mm long IIRC. You will need 4 x 90deg corners and 3 x T pieces.



Yeah... the hardest part is cutting all those ba$#@%d slots. I made mine so that the ends could come off for easy cleaning. Once you have built a copper manifold there is no maintenance required other than cleaning. The copper type is the only one I have used but I reckon the only way to beat it would be with a false bottom. 

Nice manifold Chappo.

Cheers
Gavo


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## chappo1970 (4/5/09)

OP there are plenty ways to skinthis cat. Select the one that suits you budget and ability in the end. FWIW I would love a SS false bottom but originally couldn't come at the $. Now however I reclon they are worth every cent.




Screwtop said:


> Those slots seem a little on the large side there Chappo, hows the efficiency :lol:



Pretty crappy thanks Screwy seemed to clag up all the time??



gavo said:


> Yeah... the hardest part is cutting all those ba$#@%d slots. I made mine so that the ends could come off for easy cleaning. Once you have built a copper manifold there is no maintenance required other than cleaning. The copper type is the only one I have used but I reckon the only way to beat it would be with a false bottom.
> 
> Nice manifold Chappo.
> 
> ...



+1 Gavo Slots are a mongrel! 
Mine pulls down as well and is piss easy to clean. I have had 2 stuck sparges so far both due to high wheat % in the grist.


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## MVZOOM (4/5/09)

I had nightmares with braid, so decided to 'do it right'. 2m of 3/4" copper, lots of T's and elbows, plus an angle grinder and I now have a manifold that I can run a 3/4" ball valve off at full tilt, draining my 65L tun and get around 78% efficiency. 

Slots were made using the angle grinder - a dirty, noisy operation, but only took 10mins. 

Go the manifold. It's stress free! 

Cheers - Mike


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## elec (4/5/09)

Thanks to all who replied. Food for thought, thats for sure.

Regards


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## Swinging Beef (7/5/09)

I used copper.
It was free.
So was my mash tun cooler.
If I was forking out cash, I would prolly want a false bottom.


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## Cortez The Killer (7/5/09)

Or this


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## Gulpa (7/5/09)

MVZOOM said:


> I had nightmares with braid, so decided to 'do it right'. 2m of 3/4" copper, lots of T's and elbows, plus an angle grinder and I now have a manifold that I can run a 3/4" ball valve off at full tilt, draining my 65L tun and get around 78% efficiency.
> 
> Slots were made using the angle grinder - a dirty, noisy operation, but only took 10mins.
> 
> ...



Hi Mike,

I made mine with the angle grinder as well. My problem is that there are lots of barbs on the inside of the tube making it difficult to clean. Did you manage to clean these out?

Thanks
Andrew.


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## Fourstar (7/5/09)

Braid has been fine for me. My 1st mash tun i made up out of PVC piping and slotted it like copper. worked well, only issue was under heat it would either bend or sometimes come loose....... those where angry days. Now i have cut one end off the braid, tore out the rubber hosing and folded off the end. it now simply screws onto the brass nipple im using as a part of my bulkhead. Hasn't come loose either (yet), Since adjusting my brewing process recently, efficiency's are around 73%, i used to get 65% Religiously probably due to my sparging process and no water additions to my uber soft water here.


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## TidalPete (7/5/09)

Gulpa said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> I made mine with the angle grinder as well. My problem is that there are lots of barbs on the inside of the tube making it difficult to clean. Did you manage to clean these out?
> 
> ...



Give them a rub with a long round file of a suitable diameter. Hacksaw cuts (With the correct blade) leave minium burrs to get rid of. Grinders leave lots.
What a shame you don't need a square slotted manifold as I have a surplus one to get rid of that got me an average of 87\88% eff in my old Coleman square cooler.
:icon_offtopic: If anyone needs a square manifold PM me.

TP


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## Gulpa (7/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> Give them a rub with a long round file of a suitable diameter. Hacksaw cuts (With the correct blade) leave minium burrs to get rid of. Grinders leave lots.
> What a shame you don't need a square slotted manifold as I have a surplus one to get rid of that got me an average of 87\88% eff in my old Coleman square cooler.
> :icon_offtopic: If anyone needs a square manifold PM me.
> 
> TP



Thanks TP. I will try to find a big long round file.

Cheers
Andrew.


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## RetsamHsam (7/5/09)

I have two lengths of braided hose in my esky, they are equidistant from the side walls and eachother. 

Works for me.


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## sanders4_ (7/5/09)

I would go slotted copper manifold. Tried both - and the slotted copper manifold is much much better. If i had a mash tun that fitted a false bottom like the one found from beerbelly or craftbrewer I would go that.

Much more consistent than a braid.


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## RetsamHsam (7/5/09)

sanders4_ said:


> Much more consistent than a braid.



Consistent? How do you mean?


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## BennyBrewster (7/5/09)

I have used braided, copper and nylon bag in a esky based mash tun. 

*Braided*:
Easy to setup
Moves around while stirring
Crushes/damages easily
Cut ends are sharp and jab into you all the time while cleaning.

*Coppe*r: 
Strong and drains nicely
Hardest to make
Easy to clean. 
If you tap is above the height of the manifold then air leaks in your copper joints will slow and stop your siphon before the wort is all drained (solder will fix this).

*Bag* (not biab, this is lining the mashtun!): 
Drains well and no grain gets through it!
Can lift and squeeze the bag to get every last drop of wort.
Easy to clean! (carry bag over to the garden and dump the grain then put bag in the washing machine.)
No manifold required just a simple tap in the bottom of the tun.

In the end I ended up using the bag full time. 

I'm now looking to make a mashtun out of a 50l keg so who know where I will go from here (I'm not paying $150+ for a SS false bottom and SS Pickup tube setup only to have it crush under my pumps suction.)


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## TidalPete (7/5/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> I'm not paying $150+ for a SS false bottom and SS Pickup tube setup only to have it crush under my pumps suction.



Huhhh? :blink: Please explain?

TP


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## sanders4_ (7/5/09)

by consistent i mean a few things, which bennybrewster summed up nicely. 
I made my manifold like the slotted copper manifold described in 'how to brew' by John Palmer, its design rinses the grain bed more uniformly during sparging, which is important if you fly sparge - one of the reasons i moved from the braid setup.

BUT, (again as bennybrewster said above) I have also found it worked better draining off a batch sparging when the flow rate is higher. I had problems maintaining flow with the stainless steel braid - guess it got clogged - plus it was always floating around, unlike a false bottom or mainfold which stays at the bottom where it belongs.

From what i have seen of the beerbelly or craftbrewer products - you shouldn't have a problem with it crushing. here is a link to what i am talking about for a 50L keg.
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=926


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## geoffi (7/5/09)

I use a braided hose Mark II. Mark I was the narrow stuff you get from Bunnings. I had constant stuck sparge problems with it, presumably because the weight of the mash was squashing down on it. Mark II (thanks Mark!) is much thicker diameter ~1/2 inch I think. Works like a dream. You might find this stuff at plumbing suppliers.


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## RetsamHsam (7/5/09)

Geoffi said:


> I use a braided hose Mark II. Mark I was the narrow stuff you get from Bunnings. I had constant stuck sparge problems with it, presumably because the weight of the mash was squashing down on it. Mark II (thanks Mark!) is much thicker diameter ~1/2 inch I think. Works like a dream. You might find this stuff at plumbing suppliers.



I believe I am using the Mark I braided hose and I haven't had any problems with stuck sparges.. 

Maybe you are mashing more grain than I am, Most I have mashed with my setup is 11.5 Kg


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## BennyBrewster (7/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> Huhhh? :blink: Please explain?
> 
> TP



what would you like me to explain ?

Weldless SS false bottom setup (50l Keg)
SS False bottom $79
SS bulkhead $39
SS 1/2" S-Bend Pickup Tube with SS 1/2" tube compressions $39.95
(probably need a Hex nipple and socket fitting to make this work) $10-15
*total* $ 160-170

As for the false bottoms crushing, I have read more than one person comment on their false bottom bending out of shape under the grain weight when using a march pump. example 

PS: Not sure if all false bottoms are created equal, but they all seem about the same price


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## roger mellie (7/5/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> what would you like me to explain ?
> 
> Weldless SS false bottom setup (50l Keg)
> SS False bottom $79
> ...



Hey Benny

You should be able to do it cheaper than that. But anyway - I have a perestaltic pump on my mash tun which will have more suction than a March - and did invert a SSFB. But a simple mod did the trick.





Cheers

RM


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## KHB (7/5/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> what would you like me to explain ?
> 
> Weldless SS false bottom setup (50l Keg)
> SS False bottom $79
> ...



My 50lt mash tun is bottom draining and i have a plastic falsie, also use a march pump and never had problems with my falsie bending.

Scotsman06


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## BennyBrewster (7/5/09)

roger mellie said:


> You should be able to do it cheaper than that.



Yeah you can source the plumbing cheaper no doubt, I just grabbed those prices from our sponsors website.

Now if only i could weld stainless  

Ben


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## roger mellie (7/5/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> Yeah you can source the plumbing cheaper no doubt, I just grabbed those prices from our sponsors website.
> 
> Now if only i could weld stainless
> 
> Ben



SilverSolder - childs play. (Well Almost)

RM


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## MVZOOM (7/5/09)

Gulpa said:


> Thanks TP. I will try to find a big long round file.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew.



yeah, what he said! They are cheap at Bunnings, like $10 or so. My file is about 25cm long - I'm not sure I got it all, but it seems fine.

Cheers - Mike

PS - if you don't wanna buy one, you can borrow mine.


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## TidalPete (7/5/09)

BennyBrewster said:


> what would you like me to explain ?
> As for the false bottoms crushing, I have read more than one person comment on their false bottom bending out of shape under the grain weight when using a march pump.



Benny,
I think you will find that slowing down the flow rate of your March pump will take away any qualms you may have of your false bottom collapsing but if you are worried (I'm not) about your falsie collapsing prop it up with 3 ss bolts equally spaced around the falsie near the centre then you'll be able to sit an elephant on it no worries.  

TP


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## Smashin (7/5/09)

sorry don't know how to post pic from my gallery, but my simple 2 ring annealed copper manifold with a few 2mm drilled holes get 84% efficiency into the fermenter. Personally i like the drop in manifold as i can have full heat to the tun with out risking caramelizing sugars.


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## bradsbrew (7/5/09)

Slightly :icon_offtopic: sort of. Its time to replace my 1st manifold which is 1/4" copper which was poorly made in a rush but has worked well for 12 months. I will be making another out of slotted copper but made with a bit more thought, which brings me to size if I make it with the same smaller size I can reuse the elbows and tees but I am thinking to scale up the size to 5/8" I think is the size But I also have some 1" pipe I could use but would this be too big.

Guess my question is what size works well.

cheers Brad


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Slightly :icon_offtopic: sort of. Its time to replace my 1st manifold which is 1/4" copper which was poorly made in a rush but has worked well for 12 months. I will be making another out of slotted copper but made with a bit more thought, which brings me to size if I make it with the same smaller size I can reuse the elbows and tees but I am thinking to scale up the size to 5/8" I think is the size But I also have some 1" pipe I could use but would this be too big.
> 
> Guess my question is what size works well.
> 
> cheers Brad



Brad,
Mine is 5/8 and works well. I reckon the 1" would be awesome but might take up too much volume in the MT? Not sure on the efficiency side of things which is better? I think I have some 5/8 pipe and elbows left their yours if ya want 'em?

Chappo

BTW I have this really flash chrome thermometer... makes me rig look real flashy


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## Gavo (7/5/09)

Only problem with 1" copper pipe is the price of the Tee's and bends. Yeah I know I'm out in the sticks and over 200 k from a Bunnings, but when I set up my new tun I nearly got charged for 1" Tee's rather than 1/2". Well you could have knocked me over with a feather, they were about 3x the price. My manifold is 1/2" and can run at full pelt without getting stuck if I want it to. Pic's Here.

Got me one of them flashy 3" thermometers Chappo. Certainly make my rig look flash, I almost look like I know what Iam doing.  

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Cocko (7/5/09)

Chappo said:


> Brad,
> Mine is 5/8 and works well. I reckon the 1" would be awesome but might take up too much volume in the MT? Not sure on the efficiency side of things which is better? I think I have some 5/8 pipe and elbows left their yours if ya want 'em?
> 
> Chappo
> ...



OI Chappo,

While OT...

How did you 'crimp' the joins? Is that what the centre punch is for? OR have you soldiered now?

I am off to buy my materials Satdee.... PM if better.

I am dealing with this 100L beast:





Smashin, can you post a PIC please? 
:icon_cheers:


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

gavo said:


> ...Got me one of them flashy 3" thermometers Chappo. Certainly make my rig look flash, I almost look like I know what Iam doing.
> 
> Cheers
> Gavo.



3" dial!  As flash as rat with a gold tooth mate! I'll be seein' it in the flesh at NickB's brew day mate. Looking forward to havin' a few coldies with ya!  

Chappo


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## bradsbrew (7/5/09)

Thanks for the offer there uncle Chap Chap but because my mash tun is a 50L ss type I am thinking to go for a 5/8 and make it into a ring type. I am thinking a bung at the end of a 3m roll and curl it up to one outlet at base of tun, copper tube should cover the bottom of tun well. And as for the chrome fermometer well I too now have a flashy 3" MM so you can use my old one to test your body temp rectally for all I care. :lol: No actually please dont do that I would like it back at some point  

Cheers Brad


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

Cocko said:


> OI Chappo,
> 
> While OT...
> 
> ...



Now that's what ya call a mush tun Cocko. You farkin' legend!

I braized the "T" section that leads to the rest of the manafold and then punched one side only of each of the elbows and "T" sections in the middle. Just a short sharp blow is all that's needed to lock the sectionsinto place. I will see if I can dredge up a photo for ya mate.

Chappo


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

bradsbrew said:


> ...you can use my old one to test your body temp rectally for all I care....




Too late Brad!  I gets awefully boring here at night at Chappo Manor and you know one thing kinda leads to another...

Nice Bling there Brother! Can't wait to see it in action!

Chappo


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## Cocko (7/5/09)

Chappo said:


> Now that's what ya call a mush tun Cocko. You farkin' legend!
> 
> I braized the "T" section that leads to the rest of the manafold and then punched one side only of each of the elbows and "T" sections in the middle. Just a short sharp blow is all that's needed to lock the sectionsinto place. I will see if I can dredge up a photo for ya mate.
> 
> Chappo



Cheers mate, Legend!!

Yep, very happy with the Eski!

Just tossing up between a 120L OR 146L Kettle ATM - Rig will be quite the beast me thinks! 80-110L pulled out at a time!

Any pics will be good! Cheers

Do you reckon I could 'Multi punch' around the joins and avoid the soldiering?

Not that soldering is an issue I just don't like the thought of more 'metals' than needed in my mash.

Cheers again.

Sorry OP for OT!


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## TidalPete (7/5/09)

You might as well silver solder your manifold right away & be done with it Cocko. Those little crimps with a centre punch don't last all that long, especially if you're taking the manifold out to clean all the time. Sorry to tell you this Chappo.  

TP


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## chappo1970 (7/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> You might as well silver solder your manifold right away & be done with it Cocko. Those little crimps with a centre punch don't last all that long, especially if you're taking the manifold out to clean all the time. Sorry to tell you this Chappo.
> 
> TP



Your right TP they do work loose a bit over time. I just worry about how much crap gets in there and comes out every time I give it a once over. For my money I would go a BeerBelly SS falsie.



Chappo


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## Cocko (7/5/09)

Cheers TP,

It make me think about a braided then.. IF done right , maybe with a copper slot cut inside the braid..

Sorry OP!

AND thanks!


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

Chappo said:


> For my money I would go a BeerBelly SS falsie.
> 
> Chappo



Even in a bigger tun like 100L? What about he Palmer facts? - HE HAS GRAPHS!!


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Even in a bigger tun like 100L? What about he Palmer facts? - HE HAS GRAPHS!!




Run two in the tun side by side. Expensive yes but it would do a hell of a job. Cocko keep us informed on how this goes mate because I have been seriously thinking about going this way myself. I reckon it's the ducks guts as far as tuns go.

Chappo


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

Rather than starting a new thread and I have well Hijacked this one anyway  


This is my plan for my copper manifold, any thoughts on whether I should put a 'cross' pipe across the centre too?






Cheers
:icon_cheers:


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Cocko (the pirate thread jacker),
That looks the goods mate. :wub: 

I would leave it as it. If you put another member across the middle your probably just going to build in another point for failure. I put one in the middle but I only have two reaches where you have four. Should drain like a canal lock.

Chappo


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

:super: 

Then it shall be!

Cheers Chappo. I will keep you updated on the progress...

EDIT: One more thing, should I slot the ends or just the 4 reaches?


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## TidalPete (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Rather than starting a new thread and I have well Hijacked this one anyway
> 
> 
> This is my plan for my copper manifold, any thoughts on whether I should put a 'cross' pipe across the centre too?
> ...



Just the way it should be Cocko. You've been reading "How to Brew" haven't you?  

TP

Edit --- Just saw your post Cocko. Don't worry about slotting the ends. It's great the way it is.


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> :super:
> 
> Then it shall be!
> 
> ...




Well I did the ends as well because I a gready bugger, can't see it hurting?


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## TidalPete (8/5/09)

Chappo said:


> Well I did the ends as well because I a gready bugger, can't see it hurting?



Hardly worth the effort in Cocko's case Chappo. There's not much there to slot. I would just slot the longitudals. But do what you want Cocko. :icon_cheers: 

TP


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> Hardly worth the effort in Cocko's case Chappo. There's not much there to slot. I would just slot the longitudals. But do what you want Cocko. :icon_cheers:
> 
> TP




+1 Your right Pete when ya have a second look.


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

Cheers for the tips guys.

Mighty.


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## Gavo (8/5/09)

Cocko, that's zackery how I would have done mine but I did'nt want to drill in the end of my esky for the drain. The shape of the outside of my esky would have made it difficult anyway. Slots on the longitudals will be all that is needed according to John Palmer. Should work great.

CHeers
Gavo.


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

gavo said:


> Cocko, that's zackery how I would have done mine but I did'nt want to drill in the end of my esky for the drain. The shape of the outside of my esky would have made it difficult anyway. Slots on the longitudals will be all that is needed according to John Palmer. Should work great.
> 
> CHeers
> Gavo.



Cheers Gavo,

Yeah I read Palmers pages a few times and even went with the distance's from sides to avoid channelling... Always good to get a second opinion tho!

So how did you tap your eski than?


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## Gavo (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> So how did you tap your eski than?



Yeah I went through the original drain hole. There's a link to the pic's earlier in this thread.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

So how far do you cut the slots through the pipe?

50% 70%?

Stupid Q I know but you know...


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## TidalPete (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> So how far do you cut the slots through the pipe?
> 
> 50% 70%?
> 
> Stupid Q I know but you know...



Want me to do it for you Cocko?   
A bit over half ---- 60%. 
The more you cut, the weaker those longitudals are going to be, and don't cut too close to your tees & elbows . :icon_cheers: 

TP


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## Gavo (8/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> don't cut too close to your tees & elbows . :icon_cheers:



I cut mine about halfway through. Good tip not to cut right to the tees and elbows, makes it a right PITA when re-assembling. 

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> Want me to do it for you Cocko?



Ok, that would be great, cheers TP! Please PM me your address and I will send up the bits! BTW it better be good..  

BTW: Do you know how to weld? 
:lol: 

Cheers mate.


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> So how far do you cut the slots through the pipe?
> 
> 50% 70%?
> 
> Stupid Q I know but you know...




Half way brother


----------



## Cocko (8/5/09)

Chappo said:


> Half way brother



Mighty, that should have been your handle!

Cheers bruv!  

:beer:


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Old Chap Chap gunna have to sit down and have a few beeries with ya one of these days my friend!


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

When in vic - My tap is yours!


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> When in vic - My tap is yours!



Shhh! Don't tell anyone but SWMBO has got me my birthday present which is 4 days in Viccy so I wanna catch up with a few of ya guys like your good self SJ, brendo, CM2 etc whilst I'm there.... h34r:


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

Bring TP down if ya can and I will get this falsie sorted! :lol: 

Bring it!


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## bradsbrew (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Bring TP down if ya can and I will get this falsie sorted! :lol:
> 
> Bring it!



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## TidalPete (8/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Ok, that would be great, cheers TP! Please PM me your address and I will send up the bits! BTW it better be good..
> 
> BTW: Do you know how to weld?
> :lol:
> ...



No worries re the welding. I'm an ex fitter & turner but you're out of luck. There's nothing like practical experience to help the learning curve. :icon_cheers: 

TP


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

Oh, surely you could build my brewery for me :lol: 

TP, legend, thanks for your tips thus far mate - appreciated muchly! :beerbang:


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Uncle TP is well grouchy! And doesn't like it when we try to stuff him in a suit case! <_<


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

Thats cool Chappo....

Where can I send a TNT connote to? .... I will freight the gumpy B'stard down.. 
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## chappo1970 (8/5/09)

Serious he hates it when we post pack him...  

Tecni Ice won't slow him down (FFS Chappo shut up you have to drive him to Kingas ya dumb shit?)


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## Cocko (8/5/09)

RAOTFLMFAO!!!


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## NickB (9/5/09)

You'll regret your comments Chappo, once you're in the car back home with Farty Pete in the back....


h34r:


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## Cocko (9/5/09)

Cheers, Chap chap, TP and Gavo! 

Today I did this:








Hacksaw is currently in full affect!


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## chappo1970 (9/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Cheers, Chap chap, TP and Gavo!
> 
> Today I did this:
> 
> ...



Farkin Cool Cocko!

:wub: 

Sooooo Jealous!



@NickB yes I have heard about Mr Silent but DEADLY! :icon_vomit:


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## bradsbrew (9/5/09)

Cant imagine Pete being too silent about it either Chap Chap. :huh:


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## Gavo (9/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Cheers, Chap chap, TP and Gavo!
> 
> Hacksaw is currently in full affect!



Gotta love cutting those slots. Great looking esky, manifold looking like it will work great.

Cheers
Gavo


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## Cocko (9/5/09)

gavo said:


> Gotta love cutting those slots. Great looking esky, manifold looking like it will work great.
> 
> Cheers
> Gavo



I am getting by with the thought that my beer will flow through here.... B) 

Ok bak to the saw!


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## chappo1970 (9/5/09)

Cocko said:


> I am getting by with the thought that my beer will flow through here.... B)
> 
> Ok bak to the saw!



Soooo much fun! <_<


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## Cocko (9/5/09)

Oh the joy!

I have finished one length and now I rest...

Stay tuned.

<_<


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## chappo1970 (9/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Oh the joy!
> 
> I have finished one length and now I rest...
> 
> ...



Keep sawing Biatch! Sook <_<


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## Gavo (10/5/09)

Cocko said:


> Oh the joy!
> 
> I have finished one length and now I rest...
> 
> ...



Sooo... Have you finished cutting those slots yet? Or procrastinating?

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Cocko (10/5/09)

gavo said:


> procrastinating.



1/2 way there.


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## Gavo (10/5/09)

Cocko said:


> 1/2 way there.



What you've only cut two lengths since starting yesterday?

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Cocko (10/5/09)

Yep, I bought a tiny shitty vice from Bunnings, $5, and it keeps coming out of whatever I screw it into.. pissing me off!

I am gonna visit the old man later today and use his vice to knock over the other 2...

Oh, and I am a little hung and lazy!


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## muckey (10/5/09)

lookin the business cocko

dunno why you don keep using the shitty vice, no project would be complete without lots of swearing and skun knuckles


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## growler (11/5/09)

Cocko,

Having purchased a 50l version of the Big Chilli, (Check website for specials)...I've been wondering about how to attach my braid/slotted manifold (undecided) on the inside.

What are you planning?

Growler


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## Cocko (11/5/09)

growler said:


> Cocko,
> 
> Having purchased a 50l version of the Big Chilli, (Check website for specials)...I've been wondering about how to attach my braid/slotted manifold (undecided) on the inside.
> 
> ...



Hey Growler,

I was originally planning on fitting the tap through the bung hole and then hard piping it to the manifold... then realised, once receiving the eski that the bung hole is bigger than my head and will be a pain to screw around with.. I am sure it could be done but I will drill a new hole and fit a standard weldless tap style bulkhead set-up and either connect to manifold with a small copper pipe fitting, flared and screwed on OR maybe a small piece of re-enforced 'suction' hose...

Not much info sorry, but I will post a pic for ya when it is done for more of an idea for ya!

Cheers


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## Fents (11/5/09)

If its the same thread as the eskys we got it can be done on the orig bunghole. I think the boys just got irrigation stuff that screwed straight into the big one with thread on the inside then screwed the tap into that. sort of a reducer arrangment - irrigation isle at bunnings i think. Ask troy (hairofthedog) he did his...i just drilled a hole cause my bung wasnt in the centre.


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## growler (11/5/09)

All,

The bung is std 1in thread ,so, outside fittings...reducer/tap etc are no problems.

Inside... a cutaway of the bung fitting is required... again, no problems, but the *outside fittings* (either brass or black nylon) don't have thread that goes all the way through so as to thread the reducer and olive on to. Hard to put in writing???

I've spent several times in [email protected]#$!gs trying to wrap my head around the problem with no answer yet... hence my Question to Cocko.

Growler


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## bigalglynn (11/5/09)

I love the copper manifolds B) , I made up two of these in the past and never had a problem, one for a 40 litre mash tun and one for a 60 litre using John Plamers specs. I soldered the end cross tubes and elbow, T joints, the main tubes just slot straight in and can be taken out for easy cleaning.
Cutting the slots with just a hacksaw is the most boring part :angry: :angry: . 
I soldered a brass washer on to 1/2 inch brass thread rod as a bulkhead type fitting, a compression nut keeps the copper maniflold firmly in place. In conjunction with a couple of large steel and rubber washers on both sides (inside/outside) of a esky/ice box and a brass nut on the outside, the ball valve tap worked a treat and no leaks :lol: .
Cheers,
Al


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## Cocko (11/5/09)

growler said:


> All,
> 
> The bung is std 1in thread ,so, outside fittings...reducer/tap etc are no problems.
> 
> ...



I will get it sorted for us - Obviously it is easy to tap a tap into the 1inch hole via adapter/step downs, but getting something to go back into the tun to connect the manifold is the trick... Or vice versa depending on which side you start..

Ultimately it would be a 1 inch bung with a 1/2 thread through the centre, a simple step down of thread size, and then run a half inch shank through the centre and have thread out either side, inside and out!

I am off to bunnings tomorrow growler so will let you know if I find an answer!

Cheers!


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## growler (17/5/09)

My solution




1. Drill out the back of the bung fitting and clean up with dremel, be careful not to damage the nylon thread.

2. Screw in 1in to 3/4 reducer from the outside.

3. A couple of layers of pink plumbers tape on the 1/2 male to female brass nipple make it a very snug fit inside the reducer when pushed in from the inside!. The thread on the reducer only goes half way through.

4. I might replace the 3/4 to 1/2 in nipple with brass.


Now , braid or manifold...hmmmm ....or perhaps Beerbelly bling...hmmmm ....stainless


Growler


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## Cocko (17/5/09)

Hey Growler,

Good work mate, looks the goods...

I went a similar route and ended up with this:

View attachment 27171


All I have left to do is buy a good rat tail file to clean up the inside of the slots and solder the in to the end, which are done and soaking in cleaner atm....

Cheers

EDIT: Oh, and cut down the threaded length I guess....


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## Cocko (19/5/09)

Finished it all up! Cheers again to Gavo, Chap Chap and TP... and all really. Oh and thanks Fents for posting your BB stainless Falsie in another thread and reminding me it would have cost about the same and been a shite load easier!  

Ok tap fitted and seals well:

View attachment 27275



View attachment 27276



Bottom of manifold - slottage:

View attachment 27277


Fitted:

View attachment 27278



Now I just have to tap this bad boy and get a few bits and pieces and it quad batches ahoy!  

View attachment 27279


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## chappo1970 (19/5/09)

I'm in Wuv Cocko :wub: 

Well done mate. I reckon you'll be crankin' out some mighty tasty brews outa that set up. Man I'm sooo jealous of that tun. Quad batches :beerbang: .

I noticed number 23 cut on the upper arm of the manifold looks about 5-6 deg off perpendicular. Might need to cut a new piece and replace it? h34r: :lol: 

Cheers

Chappo


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## TidalPete (19/5/09)

Cocko said:


> View attachment 27171
> 
> 
> All I have left to do is buy a good rat tail file to clean up the inside of the slots and solder the in to the end, which are done and soaking in cleaner atm....
> ...



You could cut that ss all-thread in halves & put the other half on your kettle. Contrary to what a lot of others will tell you you will *NOT* cause any heat damage to your outlet valve. I use a NASA & have no trouble with heat causing problems with my ss outlet ball valve. See my boiler pic in my Gallery link below if you need visual confirmation.
For a hassle-free kettle outlet valve you could do worse than getting a 3-piece.  

Just saw your post Chappo.  

TP


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## Cocko (19/5/09)

Chappo said:


> I noticed number 23 cut on the upper arm of the manifold looks about 5-6 deg off perpendicular. Might need to cut a new piece and replace it? h34r: :lol:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chappo



LMAO :lol: 

TP: I am going to use stainless shank and 3 piece for the kettle tap, thanks for the tip - it saved me asking!

Cheers


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## warra48 (19/5/09)

Nice work cocko.

I used Palmer also to plan my manifold, and it works a treat for me.
I'm sure yours will work just as well.


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## Cocko (19/5/09)

Cheers Warra,

I hope so mate.... I hope so....

should have others odds and ends in about 4 weeks and test run will be afoot. No doubt in my excitement I will post all about it! 
:icon_cheers:


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## Hazy (24/5/09)

Any one got any ideas on attatching the braid to the bottom of the eski, thanks in advance


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## clean brewer (24/5/09)

I screwed mine directly onto the All thread I had put through the hole I drilled...

:icon_cheers: CB


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## Kai (24/5/09)

TidalPete said:


> You could cut that ss all-thread in halves & put the other half on your kettle. Contrary to what a lot of others will tell you you will *NOT* cause any heat damage to your outlet valve. I use a NASA & have no trouble with heat causing problems with my ss outlet ball valve. See my boiler pic in my Gallery link below if you need visual confirmation.



Sure, with a NASA you won't experience any problem as it's a very small area on the burner itself. If you're using a big old 4-ring or something like that, then you will get a bit more heat licking up the sides of the pot when at full throttle. My ball valve would have been toast if it wasn't as far out from the kettle as it was.


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## manticle (11/7/09)

I'm currently making a mash tun from a recently purchased 26 L esky. I've drilled out the front of the esky, fitted a threaded pipe and tap and sealed the threads with thread tape.

So far, so good - easy and fun.












However making the manifold has been a challenge and I really need some advice. I bought 3 m of annealed copper pipe, thinking I could bend it into shape in one continuous pice but that proved quite difficult. That piece was discarded due to excessive damage from bending and drilling and with the remaining copper I cut the appropriate bits to make a reasonable looking manifold. However I don't have t and elbow pieces so I may have to wait till I can buy them before continuing. So as not to waste the last bit of pipe, can someone offer advice on how to fit the pipe into the elbow joins properly? I don't have a soldering iron (although I guess I could borrow one in a pinch). I have a couple of brass olive fittings to screw the manifold into the t-piece fitted to the tap/thread leading to outside the tun so should I be looking at getting more of those?

I have some other questions.

Firstly I have been working with this copper pipe for several hours and my hands are covered in a blackish deposit which tastes like copper. That's to be expected but I'm now going to put my grain in next to this stuff. How does it not affect the flavour of the wort and/or beer?

Secondly why is the manifold necessary as opposed to something simple like fitting the internal threaded channel with a mesh? Could I place an appropriate sized cake cooling rack and some mesh above the tap? Is there any major reason why other types of straining (besides puring through colanders) are inappropriate?

Sorry if noob questions are noobish but my brewing assistant insisted that I ask


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## felten (11/7/09)

Theres a decent guide on youtube, you might have seen it already but here it is anyway;
 - pt 1
 - pt 2

It shows how they solder it together and so on.

I was going to go down a similiar route to you (I think I bought the same esky!) but decided to purchase a beerbelly falsie/bulkhead n stuff instead.


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## Screwtop (11/7/09)

manticle said:


> I'm currently making a mash tun from a recently purchased 26 L esky. I've drilled out the front of the esky, fitted a threaded pipe and tap and sealed the threads with thread tape.
> 
> So far, so good - easy and fun.
> 
> ...




Couple of points Manticle, I would run thread tape over the all thread where it fits inside the tun wall and use a flange nut and red fibre washer or silicon washer both inside and out. Screw these onto the thread taped area to waterproof your through wall fitting. There will be heaps of other posts and options to think about also.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel, a simple slotted manifold works well, use some 1/2 inch copper, easy as. As far as the copper taste goes, ask your yeastie buddies if they like the taste :lol: Have a look at some old brew kettles, RDWHAHB


Looks good, you're on your way. 

Screwy


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

@ manticle,

I think you will be fine mate, its not rocket science.....

A copper manifold is the ultimate in my eyes.......

Beer you will have!! 

Go for it...


Let us know how you go!


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## manticle (11/7/09)

@ felten: Thankyou. I notice Grain and Grape don't sell those false bottoms. Is there anywhere you (or anyone else) knows where to get them in Melbourne?

@ screwtop : I used thread tape on both sides but no washers. Do you mean thread tape should cover the entire thread or just between the nut and the wall (which is currently where it is)? I know next to nothing about plumbing and pipes so all of this is completely new to me.

The copper manifold idea I'm happy with (provided metallic twang is no issue and I trust millions of brewers before me that it isn't). However joining those bits (91mm/1/2 inch) into elbows and t- pieces is done how exactly? Do I need more olive fittings or can I pinch the ends together somehow or...or.....or.? Another visit to Bunnings is on the cards but I'd like to make it the last.

The plumbing guy who gave me the advice on which bits to get asked if it wouldn't be easier just to buy that stuff wot you add the sugar to.


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

Mate,

If you need a hand putting your Copper Manifold together just drop me a line... too easy!

:icon_cheers:


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## seemax (11/7/09)

Copper manifold does a good job but takes some work, and ideally needs to follow the principles laid out in HowtoBrew.

Stainless steel braid also does a good job, either one length to the opposite edge or double length and twisted around.

You can also do a BIAB in an esky, although your 26L one will be too small for 23L batches. I use a 55L esky with the standard drain plug. Line it with swiss voile, dump in the grain, and perform a 2 step infusion (1st step to mash temp maybe 67C , then 2nd step to mash out 76C). Stir heaps, lift the bag, then drain all the runnings into your kettle... and away you go.

You could in theory just put a mesh on the pipe, but the issues are stuck mash and pour draining.


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

Seemax,

What do you do?


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## manticle (11/7/09)

Forgot to include the photo of the bits of pipe I hope to make the manifold from which might make the question make more sense. Remnants of my 3 m coil or do I need to start again?


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

Ok,

My tip would go like this: 


Those joints won't set you back much.. You should have run long way!! THAT SAID - it will be fine...

need more info? wait for my PM.....

SOO much fun cutting the slots....

Anyways, don't stress it - we will get you home!


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## manticle (11/7/09)

Cheers mate.


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## Screwtop (11/7/09)

Look at you go Manticle, I would go with elbows screwed into each end of your T then compression nuts and olives. use copper connections for the rest, see if uou can get someone to solder it all up for you. When you cut your slits on the underside, you really don't need them too close, some people go way over the top with the number of cuts. 

The through the wall fitting sounds ok, I just run one length of tape right along and screw the nuts from each end over the tape, cos I'm lazy


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## Gavo (11/7/09)

Manticle if you don't have access to an oxy and silver solder you could just punch some dimples into the tee's and elbows enough so they won't come apart. They don't have to seal at all, just stay together. Silver soldering does make a stronger manifod. I have mine only partly soldered together so it can be dismantled for cleaning. Pic here. If you do solder make sure you use silver solder and not leaded solder. The copper will cause no problem with your beer. 

You need to use the thread tape by wrapping it around the thread where the nuts will contact so there will be tape between the all thread and the nuts.

Cocko is right about the price of a falsie, but I am more than happy with my manifold getting a reliable 80%+ efficiency in the fermenter, even when I set the grain bed really crappy all mounded up on one side and shallow on the other. <_< 


Cheers
Gavo.


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## chappo1970 (11/7/09)

Manticle PM me mate I'll send you my redundant (bit like me really) manifold!

Cheers

Chappo


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

gavo said:


> Cocko is right about the price of a falsie, but I am more than happy with my manifold getting a reliable 80%+ efficiency



Gavo, you got me home so again many thanks.... :icon_cheers: 

IF you are fitting out a 55L easky than the BB falsie will do you fine, for me I was Fitting out a 100L tun and needed more than the BB falsie could serve.... admittedly, I read the 'bible' JP's - Too much to detail!......

BUT first brew pulled, 78 % efficiency.. as per Brewalchemy... So who really knows! Maybe PP and TB can argue about it!!

Seriously though, COPPER MANIFOLDS RULE!! So cheap, easy and effective.. who would have thunk JP knew what he was talking about...  

B)


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## clean brewer (11/7/09)

Go the BB Falsie(sorry all), efficiency has shot through the roof with this bit of kit and well worth the $$$$, stuff screwing around with a manifold... h34r: (never had one)...

Been getting great efficiency with the Falsie and prob. other brewing practices, last brew got me 90-94%....  

Do what serves you well.....  

:icon_cheers: CB


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

clean brewer said:


> Go the BB Falsie(sorry all), efficiency has shot through the roof with this bit of kit and well worth the $$$$, stuff screwing around with a manifold... h34r: (never had one)...
> 
> Been getting great efficiency with the Falsie and prob. other brewing practices, last brew got me 90-94%....
> 
> ...



Agree it is a great bit of kit CB.... BUT in the bottom of a 100L tun it is not, that is why I went the Mani...

In a 55L square it is the ultimate me thinks but any else should be considered on case by case...

14c


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## clean brewer (11/7/09)

Cocko said:


> Agree it is a great bit of kit CB.... BUT in the bottom of a 100L tun it is not, that is why I went the Mani...
> 
> In a 55L square it is the ultimate me thinks but any else should be considered on case by case...
> 
> 14c



Fully agree mate, I reckon Dom should make a bigger Falsie for bigger Mash-tuns, maybe with more than 1 pick-up tube??? Alot of potential I reckon with the Falsie...


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## Mitternacht Brauer (11/7/09)

My 2cents worth, Just boiling up a belgium ale that was mashed in a 44L esky lined with Swiss voile sitting on top of cake rake with 3 bits of conduit and a small length of copper as a pickup to the center of the esky . Works a treat for me . I would take a pic but the grain is still in situ till the morning.

Buster


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## Cocko (11/7/09)

clean brewer said:


> Do what serves you well.....



I reckon its that simple! :icon_cheers: 




View attachment 28777


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## Batz (12/7/09)

Cocko said:


> I reckon its that simple! :icon_cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Another one mashing to hot.

Batz


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## yardy (12/7/09)

manticle said:


> Forgot to include the photo of the bits of pipe I hope to make the manifold from which might make the question make more sense. Remnants of my 3 m coil or do I need to start again?






gday manticle,

have a look here at a simple and easy manifold build, MANIFOLD

imo there is no need to permanently fix the joints, the tun & mani in the above link are still going strong after countless kg and has been passed onto a BIABer who has seen the light.

( Used it yet QldKev ?  )

cheers
Yard


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## mje1980 (12/7/09)

Batz said:


> Another one mashing to hot.
> 
> Batz




??? inside joke maybe?


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## Screwtop (12/7/09)

mje1980 said:


> ??? inside joke maybe?



Don't think so !!


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## Cocko (12/7/09)

Batz said:


> Another one mashing to hot.
> 
> Batz




Why so screwtop? I thought 66 was about right?


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## Wolfy (12/7/09)

manticle said:


> I'm currently making a mash tun from a recently purchased 26 L esky. I've drilled out the front of the esky, fitted a threaded pipe and tap and sealed the threads with thread tape.
> 
> So far, so good - easy and fun.


Noone else has mentioned this yet, so I guess you'll be fine, but I was in Bunnings yesterday looking at some taps very similar to the one you're using, and when looking inside it seemed to have a very restricted flow-path, so I was worried that it might get clogged with grain when you recycle your first runnings. I guess if you make sure that most of the crud is filtered by the braid or manifold then you should be right, but if it was not already too late, I'd have suggested a ball-style-tap instead.

As for the manifold, IMHO it depends on what sparge method you plan to use, if you're going to batch sparge anything is much the same, just get the liquid out as quickly as possible, but for continuous-sparging you'll want to follow the principles and designs show on HowToBrew.


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## manticle (12/7/09)

Likely to be batch sparging at this point. I looked at the ball style but I was on a limited budget and the ball style seemed to need a few extra attachments. I may have cocked that up in my mind. I guess at some point they can be easily changed over as the tap is not permanent.

Hopefully the manifold does the job though.

That image was taken as a test shot - there is actually a nut fitted over the thread which is hard up against the wall of the esky (fitted with thread tape). I hang pictures for a living (and am studying how to conserve art and artefacts made from paper) so my hardware skills in relation to things like plumbing are minimal. I'm never shy of having a crack but I'd be the last guy to suggest I know what I'm doing.

@Yardy: great link, thankyou. I think I'll be buying more copper pipe and starting again as mine is a bit rough. It's been good practice though (mainly in what not to do). For anyone thinking of trying this - the first part was dead simple. If (unlike me) you did a bit more research before jumping into it and got all the bits, the second part should be easy too. Frustration and mistakes are all part of the game.

@ Batz & screwtop - my understanding of single infusion is between 66 and 70 (recommended in Palmer). What is a better temp and why? I'm aware that different temps will alter body and sweetness but isn't that dependent on the beer you're trying to make?


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## Screwtop (12/7/09)

Wolfy said:


> Noone else has mentioned this yet, so I guess you'll be fine, but I was in Bunnings yesterday looking at some taps very similar to the one you're using, and when looking inside it seemed to have a very restricted flow-path, so I was worried that it might get clogged with grain when you recycle your first runnings. I guess if you make sure that most of the crud is filtered by the braid or manifold then you should be right, but if it was not already too late, I'd have suggested a ball-style-tap instead.
> 
> As for the manifold, IMHO it depends on what sparge method you plan to use, if you're going to batch sparge anything is much the same, just get the liquid out as quickly as possible, but for continuous-sparging you'll want to follow the principles and designs show on HowToBrew.




Yep, full bore 1/2" BSP Ball Valve is what most use.

Screwy


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## The King of Spain (12/7/09)

Cocko said:


> Why so screwtop? I thought 66 was about right?



62-63C for my taste preference. 66 is pretty high, expecially with 100% grain...


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## mje1980 (12/7/09)

The King of Spain said:


> 62-63C for my taste preference. 66 is pretty high, expecially with 100% grain...



We all have different tastes. 62-63c leaves me with a thin bodied beer i don't really care for, regardless of which malt i use. But i usually brew ales, so that probably helps. Though the lager i just pitched yesterday was a Dark german lager, with a mash temp of 70c, the highest i've done so far.

Different strokes for different folks. It's a bit biased to say "Another one mashing too hot". But that's just my opinion.


----------

