# cheapest birko 40l urn I found



## timgkelly (2/11/13)

Hi Lads and Lass's

This is the cheapest urn I found in Sydney. I'm thinking of stepping into BIAB soon, but if any of you have other leads in the sydney region, I'd like to hear about them..

http://www.cateringwholesalers.com/urns-hot-water-birko-40-litre-hot-water-urn-1009040-p-7339.html

I have a couple of extract brews under my belt, looking forward to trying this out.

Cheers,
Tim


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## NewtownClown (2/11/13)

Concealed or exposed element?
You may want to bypass the cut-out switch to stop it cutting out at 100 C (dense wort boils higher than 100).
Not 40 litre but enough capacity for BIAB, concealed element and free postage
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30-litre-tea-coffee-urn-crab-cooker-homebrew-free-post-/281184926963?pt=AU_SmallKitchenAppliances&hash=item4177ed7cf3


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## tavas (2/11/13)

Don't bother with the eBay urn. They are pieces of crap. Birko's don't need the cutout bypassed. They work fine straight from the box. Concealed or exposed makes no difference unless you intend to leave the bag in with power on. I have a Birko, used on 40 brews and has never missed a beat. Just make sure you wipe the element clean after you brew.

Replace the stock tap with a 1/2" ball valve. Makes life easier.


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## Hippy (2/11/13)

tavas said:


> Don't bother with the eBay urn. They are pieces of crap. Birko's don't need the cutout bypassed. They work fine straight from the box. Concealed or exposed makes no difference unless you intend to leave the bag in with power on. I have a Birko, used on 40 brews and has never missed a beat. Just make sure you wipe the element clean after you brew.
> 
> Replace the stock tap with a 1/2" ball valve. Makes life easier.


I concur


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## gmorosi (2/11/13)

FYI something worth noting is that the Crown urns National Homebrew sell have the cutout mod performed at the factory so it does not effect the warrant of the unit - well, it was something that was done to mine which I purchased from them about a month ago....

It's not something which was advertised on the site, but certainly turned out to be a happy bonus I found out after purchasing. As for the urn itself, I've been getting great result with it so far (although only have 4 brews under my belt using it).


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## Bribie G (2/11/13)

Birkos and Crown exposed element urns are perfect for BIAB, I've owned two. Crown exposed element seem to be a bit cheaper, about $260 from Craftbrewer (sponsor).

After using both for several years I'd go the Crown, personally, as it has a more robust tap - immatesticle if you are going to replace with a ball valve.

Remember that urns are really designed for restaurant and ladies' bingo hall usage and home brewing is low down on their list, although the introduction of the Crown exposed element is a sign that our craft is now on their radar.


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## hotmelt (2/11/13)

Someone else linked to this one which is a lot cheaper if it is still available.
https://www.nisbets.com.au/Buffalo-Manual-Fill-Water-Boiler/CC193-A/ProductDetail.raction


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## Bribie G (2/11/13)

hotmelt said:


> Someone else linked to this one which is a lot cheaper if it is still available.
> https://www.nisbets.com.au/Buffalo-Manual-Fill-Water-Boiler/CC193-A/ProductDetail.raction


Well well well well............... if the Buffalo is being imported, that's going to put the cat among the pidgeons

Buffalo is the BIAB vessel of choice in the UK and has a huge following.

Thanks for posting that.


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## djar007 (2/11/13)

That's a great price for a concealed element urn . you can't really go wrong with that. Having said that. Heaps of urns come up on Gumtree and ebay second hand. If you can wait.


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## Jamo (2/11/13)

There's a bit more info about the Buffalo urn in the Website deals thread. I got one and have had a couple of minor issues but another poster had his fail part way through a boil. I was told by Nisbets that they had problems with them a while back but all current stock have been electrically tested. Not so sure. On mine the heating light doesn't come on at all. Not a show stopper, but should work if it's been tested.
Then again, the price is right.


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## Alex.Tas (4/11/13)

looks like a good price. i've been looking for a while to find a good deal.. garage sales tip shops gumtree etc, but this looks good. anyone else used one of these?


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## timgkelly (4/11/13)

Thanks for all the replies, folks. That buffalo looks mighty tempting, however, I'm leaning towards the tried and tested birko. I don't think I've heard much of a complaint about that unit yet...


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## Pokey (4/11/13)

What's the preferred configuration, concealed or exposed element? And what are the advantages either way?
The Buffalo looks like a good deal, provided they don't fail of course.


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## Natdene (4/11/13)

I have a crown concealed, I was told it is easier to clean compared to exposed, works great, never tripped out and easy as to clean


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## Black Devil Dog (4/11/13)

If Crown and Birko had any idea how many home brewers are buying their products, they might find it worth their while doing a bit of research into what is required for that part of their market and develop a range for those people. One of them could really capture the home brew market with some slight modifications.


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## tavas (4/11/13)

Pokey said:


> What's the preferred configuration, concealed or exposed element? And what are the advantages either way?
> The Buffalo looks like a good deal, provided they don't fail of course.


Holden vs Ford. Concealed is supposed to easier to clean and won't burn your bag if you leave it in with power on. Exposed doesn't trip the cut out on Crowns apparently.
At the end of the day it won't make much difference. I soak the urn with Napisan at the end of the brew day so cleaning isn't really an issue. I would say stick with either Crown or Birko, and go with the cheaper one you find. Either should give years of service if looked after correctly. My preference was Birko based on known issues with cutout. It was simply something I didn't want to deal with, but plenty of guys on here use Crowns. I would suggest swapping out valve for a ball valve but that is your call.

Expect to pay between $220-$280. I found mine on eBay, sometimes catering mobs have clearance sales. Many home brew stores stock Crowns.

Bribe has both. He prefers the Crown tap. Crown is taller and skinnier, Birko stockier and fatter.


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## Pokey (4/11/13)

Just found a Birko urn on EBay, new for $299 with free delivery.
Item number 290756121927, not sure how to paste a link free the app.


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## Jamo (4/11/13)

Just a follow up on my Buffalo. Used it again yesterday for the second time and no problems. I did have to set it at the full 110 to stop the thermometer cutting it out while boiling. But it did the job.
That's 2 brews down and many more to come I hope.


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## camstans (17/11/13)

tavas said:


> Replace the stock tap with a 1/2" ball valve. Makes life easier.


is this a hard operation?


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## tavas (17/11/13)

No not at all. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55798


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## Kingy (20/11/13)

Where did you guys get ya cake racks to go over the exposed element in these rigs. Me mate brought one, probly won't need one till after summer but be good to know anyway. Cheers


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## smokenmirraz (20/11/13)

Kingy said:


> Where did you guys get ya cake racks to go over the exposed element in these rigs. Me mate brought one, probly won't need one till after summer but be good to know anyway. Cheers


Local $2 would probably have what you are after.


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## Kingy (20/11/13)

Yea I suppose. Would they be full stainless or just coated in lookalike?


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## brando078 (20/11/13)

Hi u mentioned using a ball valve with the birko where can one locate this item and what is the benefits of changing to ball valve?


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## tavas (21/11/13)

Most good hardware stores or homebrew stores will have stainless ball valves. Check the sponsors above. 
Advantage is being able to partially close the valve to slow down flow and also there are a variety of fittings like elbows and nipples so you can slip your hoses onto. You don't have to fit one, but it does help.


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## stm (22/11/13)

Kingy said:


> Where did you guys get ya cake racks to go over the exposed element in these rigs. Me mate brought one, probly won't need one till after summer but be good to know anyway. Cheers


Kitchen shops have roasting racks, which are quite good for this.


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## zeggie (26/11/13)

Rays outdoors have circular racks good for urns. Usually located near the cast iron pots/Dutch ovens.


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## Alex.Tas (26/11/13)

Help me justify an urn purchase and go urn biab. How much do y'all generally pay for a 20l batch? Obviously depends on recipe... For camparison sake, kit batches usually cost me around 40-45 bucks with a decent yeast and good hop additions.


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## Kingy (26/11/13)

I Can brew grain beers for around $12 a carton. Or $25 for the ingredients for a single batch. (Not including gas or power which is bigger all.


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## Bentnose (26/11/13)

I'm loving my Crown urn, did a 2 hour boil on the weekend, very vigorous with no cutting out. Found the concealed element cover was about half covered with scorched malt when I'd finished, easily removed this with a SS scourer. The tap is very robust. Picked it up new for $150, I know someone though.


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## Maheel (26/11/13)

Alex.Tas said:


> Help me justify an urn purchase and go urn biab. How much do y'all generally pay for a 20l batch? Obviously depends on recipe... For camparison sake, kit batches usually cost me around 40-45 bucks with a decent yeast and good hop additions.





Kingy said:


> I Can brew grain beers for around $12 a carton. Or $25 for the ingredients for a single batch. (Not including gas or power which is bigger all.


but grain beer that cheap would be bulk buying and maybe owning the mill etc.... it's a slippery slope going all grain the setup costs are a fair few $$$$

you could lower you kit costs by reusing yeast and bulk buying hops ?

I all grain mostly BIAB and it is very nice and you have lots more options for recipes once you have the kit


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## tavas (26/11/13)

Alex.Tas said:


> Help me justify an urn purchase and go urn biab. How much do y'all generally pay for a 20l batch? Obviously depends on recipe... For camparison sake, kit batches usually cost me around 40-45 bucks with a decent yeast and good hop additions.


I can do a BIAB for about $25 a batch, but I own a grain mill and buy grain by the sack. So unless you want to commit to buying that fruit, you won't justify it solely on cost.

However, have a taste of an all grain beer and let that decide. If you think that is where you want to go, then get the urn and have a crack. If you think there's only marginal difference between the two, stay where you 

Urns hold their resale value so getting rid of one will be pretty easy for only a small loss.

Alternatively, get a Big W pot and follow the "All grain for $30" thread. Minimal outlay and gives an appreciation for how BIAB works.


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## philmud (28/11/13)

I buy ingredients per batch and probably end up at around $40 per 23L batch, but that is less if I reuse yeast and/or have a simple hop bill (obvs no different from extract in this respect).
But, and this is a big but, the quality of the beer and the enjoyment of the process is greatly enhanced, so for me it's very much worth it. Being able to control the inputs and process of the mash is worth the effort in my opinion. I've never heard a brewer say they regretted going AG.


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## stm (29/11/13)

It's still going to be cheaper than a set of golf clubs!


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## Bribie G (29/11/13)

from kitchen shops, curved roasting rack SS

If you have a mill and buy grain by the sack it can work out at around $2.50 a kilo average.
Add some spec grains and hops and reuse yeast, you can brew AG for less than $20 a brew.

The lager brew that I won a gong with in the Nationals would have set me back $18 for ingredients assuming I will re use the Wyeast three times at least.

Plus a dollar for the boil.


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## Alex.Tas (3/12/13)

hmm good points. Sounds like the consensus is that its generally not a great deal cheaper unless you have access to good quality bulk grain. I haven't tried any home brewed AG beers though so maybe thats a reason enough it itself to give it a crack.


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## QldKev (3/12/13)

The taste should be the number 1 reason to change. The $$$ may be a bit cheaper in AG, the effort is a lot more. I guess it's a hobby that hopefully you will enjoy, so maybe time should not be a tangible figure.


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