# Pimping a Coopers Kit with a Partial Mash



## Bribie G

A lot of kit brewers post about improving their kit brews with additives and "tweaking" to get away from the perceived "home brew taste".
I've just been presented with a tin of Coopers Australian Pale Ale and a kilo of Coopers Brew Enhancer 2. I also have a batch of Coopers Bottled Ale yeast in the fridge - "recultured".

Ideal opportunity to do a keg filler. If you do something along the same lines you will end up with a basic knowledge of mashing and can easily proceed to all grain brewing if you like the idea.
Most of the equipment listed below is general purpose household stuff. You would have a thermometer and probably a stockpot anyway.


*Equipment:*






Esky
Here I use a Decor Brand 8.5L food storer that I normally keep my brewing salts in.
Paint strainer bag also sold as hop bag by many LHBS, mine came from Craftbrewer, about $8.
Spoon
Stockpot. Mine's the excellent Aldi 10.5L one with the glass lid and thick base

You will also need a heat source. I have a wee cooktop, your stove is fine. Camp gas stove excellent as well. Electric kettle etc to provide hot water.

*Ingredients: *




Tin
BE2
kilo of milled pale malt (your supplier will supply milled)
yeast - there's plenty of info on the forum about growing Coopers Yeast out of the bottle dregs.
10g hops, Pride of Ringwood here

This recipe should give a beer around 5.4% ABV with the yeast esters and hop character you find in Coopers Sparkling Ale.

*Method:*

*Brewmate (free software)* .is useful for calculating temperatures and volumes.



In the esky provide a water bath at 70 degrees that will come up the sides of the inner container.
 
Line the inner container with the fabric bag and pour in hot water to provide 6.8L water at 70
Quickly but carefully mix in the milled grain, which will yield a bit over 8L of mash at 67
Put lid on as well as you can and lower into esky, careful not to flood the grain
Fit esky lid and walk away for an hour






The grain will now mash itself to yield fermentable sugars and dextrins etc.
The water bath temperature isn't too high, it won't actually do much to the mash except insulate it quite nicely and will itself cool down a fair bit during the mash.

Back later with the second half.


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## Bribie G

At the end of the hour, remove the inner container and hoist the bag, letting it drain with light squeezing, back into your mini mash tun.




This should yield around 7 L of wort which is a good fit for a smaller stockpot. To get a bit more goodness out of it you can put the bag back in the container and add a kettle of boiling water, stir it around and re hoist the bag.

Personally I wouldn't bother as you are looking to enhance the flavour and character of the kit - not so much a cost cutting exercise.

Bring the stockpot to the boil and boil for an hour. After 30 mins add 10g Pride of Ringwood pellets - I have gone cautious here, I don't really know how the stand alone Aussie PA turns out, we are looking just for that "POR" background you always get with the Coopers, not to bitter it to buggery.




At the end of the boil, put a lid on the stockpot - clingwrap it if you like - and let it cool down for an hour.

Pour the wort into your sanitized fermenter along with the kit and BE2 and top up with tap water. In the case of a Coopers Pale Ale style, clarity isn't the no. 1 concern and I'd just tip it all in, but if you prefer you can try to isolate the trub at the bottom of the pot.

Pitch. Edit: Anything low to mid 20s will be ok for pitch as long as you are sure it's going to get below 20 within 12 hours. The first few hours the yeast is just waking up and breeding up. You need it to be below 20 when the actual fermentation commences. You can use the kit yeast but the Coopers recultured yeast from the bottle is highly recommended.

Edit: ferment below 20 degrees - should be ambient most areas at the moment. If you can keep it below 18 degrees you'll get those nice pear esters that you taste and smell in Coopers Sparkling.


*Notes: *

Kits with partial mashes are a good way of exploring spec grains and what they do. For example you could do the above brew with some darker malts included such as Caraaroma or use some wheat malt as well - the variations are endless.

Today I've worked within rough guidelines but haven't stressed about exact temperature issues, efficiency or other fine details. Partials are good for learning the ropes without stressing about getting everything spot on.

Rather than use the Brew Enhancer you can go up to two or three kilos of grain malt if you can find a big enough container.

Hey guess what, You might as well just go the whole hog now and do AG brewing :beerbang:

I'll get it pitched this evening and will report in a few weeks on the outcome - I'll keg it and do a few bottles as well.


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## treefiddy

Looks like a good guide, there's nothing wrong with a kit can.

How long would you say this process took Bribie? Less than or equal to your normal BIAB day? 
Was the process a little less involved so you could manage other things also?


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## Bribie G

Probably a lot less than a full BIAB day as there was far quicker temperature ramping and less cleaning up - but of course the mashing and boiling times are pretty much the same. Also no faffing around with multiple hop additions, kettle finings etc so really apart from a burst of activity at the beginning, the hoist and the end I just set the timer for a couple of periods and even got out to the shops.


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## TidalPete

I only wish I'd had the opportunity to have a forum like this & tutorials like this when I first started doing partials by trial & error. Brewing life would have been so much easier. 
A well-constructed tutorial for the noob. Well done again Bribie. :super: 
My only criticism is there's no actual pitching temp advice. 



> there's nothing wrong with a kit can.


If that's what you're happy with then good luck to you but my advice to you is to move onwards & upwards. You won't regret it.
BIAB will not be the end of your brewing [SIZE=10.5pt]odyssey [/SIZE]but merely small step on the road to Beer Nirvana.


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## Bribie G

Edited


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## treefiddy

I have a 3V system but did kits and bits for a year (no partials like this though) before having a few go's at BIAB.

The scope of beer styles that can be good with kits is a little limited, but a good APA is not hard to achieve.

To each his own though, just I never had much trouble making a decent kit beer.
If beginners are happy with Coopers Sparkling or hoppy APA's, stouts etc then there is no reason to recommend them BIAB.


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## squirt in the turns

Bribie G said:


> To get a bit more goodness out of it you can put the bag back in the container and add a kettle of boiling water, stir it around and re hoist the bag.


I'm nitpicking as it is probably inconsequential with such a small quantity of liquid and grain, and you advise not to bother with this step anyway, but just to help the noobs start off with the right practices: it's not a good idea to sparge with boiling water. Aim for 80°C to avoid extracting astringent tannins.


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## Bribie G

The thing about sparging and tannins is more about the pH and less about the temperature (hence Decoction mashes don't suffer from tannin extraction) so a batch sparge with stirring shouldn't harm, but I guess that if you decided to get smart and pour kettles of boiling water through the grain in the suspended bag to do a sort of mid-air sparge then you could start washing undesirable things out of the grain.

Probably best to be on the safe side and use very hot but not boiling kettle.


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## slcmorro

How's this one travelling, Bribie G?


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## Bribie G

Oh telepathic dude, I just kegged it off five minutes before you posted :lol:

It's very good indeed, in fact mate and myself are drinking the extra couple of litres right out of primary.





There's a slight "isohop" type bitterness but I don't know what the raw kit would taste like. Mate reckons it doesn't taste unpleasantly bitter to him - more like an old time beer he used to drink. However no perceivable "kit" twang in the malt portion, very smooth indeed, and those POR and the Coopers yeast have done their trick. And it's still cloudy and flat and warm.

BTW no real need to use a mini biab, I originally used a large $4 kitchen wire flour strainer from a two dollar shop to strain the grain into the stockpot then do a sparge with an electric jug, but a wee BIAB is more handle-able.

I'd really recommend doing this to step up from kits for anyone who needs "training wheels". When I did my very first AG I kept thinking "hey this is easy, I _know _this".


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## mwd

As a kits and bits man I may try this as I don't have a vessel big enough for BIAB. The only good can kits I have done are toucans.


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## monsterhopmonster

Thanks for the instructions Bribie.

I have been a kit brewer for years but lately have been reading up on the science of AG and DIY gear to support it but am balking at the cost to setup and the gear that I may potentially use only once or twice.

Your guide is a great, low impact way for me to dip my toes in the water.

thanks


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## bum

Don't forget about this sticky thread to compliment Bribie's guide.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/5393-partial-mash-starter/

Not just the OP but there's some great points made throughout the thread.


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## slcmorro

Just a question re: boiling.

It's ok to boil the wort you've extracted from the grains, as you've only got sugars and not unwanted stuff out of it during the mashing process yeah? If the grains were being boiled, then you'd get the unwanted nasties right?

I think I skipped the boiling step when I steeped spec grains as a preliminary to doing an extract because I thought I'd 'ruin' the sugars.


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## manticle

Boil wort unless making a berliner weiss

Don't boil grains unless decoction mashing.


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## slcmorro

So.... boil wort! Thanks


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## Dementedchook

Having stumbled across this recently, I've been inspired to try it. I'll be doing a cooper's sparkling tin, cooper's wheat malt tin, and kilo of 2 row. Maybe what's left of a bag of medium crystal.
Be interesting to see what it's like.


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## reardo

Great page guys. I have my missus 30th on in 3 weeks time and wanted to show off a little by having a neat tasting keg ready for all to try.

A question to the quote - "_Rather than use the Brew Enhancer you can go up to two or three kilos of grain malt if you can find a big enough container._" - what type of 2-3 kgs of grained malt would go well for replacing the brew enhanser? Would it be different types of malt or just stick to the one blend?


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## Dementedchook

reardo said:


> Great page guys. I have my missus 30th on in 3 weeks time and wanted to show off a little by having a neat tasting keg ready for all to try.
> 
> A question to the quote - "_Rather than use the Brew Enhancer you can go up to two or three kilos of grain malt if you can find a big enough container._" - what type of 2-3 kgs of grained malt would go well for replacing the brew enhanser? Would it be different types of malt or just stick to the one blend?


I'd just go with base malt, pilsner, ales, etc. maybe something like marris otter if you want a little more character. You could also roll with a little crystal in there to pimp it up a little. If you're just looking to sub for the brew enhancer I'd just take your pick of base malts. Mind you I'd listen to pretty much anyone else, I've only played with all grain a couple of times.


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## Dementedchook

B.C. said:


> Having stumbled across this recently, I've been inspired to try it. I'll be doing a cooper's sparkling tin, cooper's wheat malt tin, and kilo of 2 row. Maybe what's left of a bag of medium crystal.
> Be interesting to see what it's like.


Well, taste during bottling yesterday was very malty. I probably should have used a yeast with higher attenuation. However it was still pretty good.


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## Scottye

I too was inspired by this post. I had put together one partial using LME and had recently put down my first Lager basically a kits and bits. So I decided to Pimp the Coopers European Lager kit. I went with 2.3 kg of Pilsner and 200g of Carapils, the Coopers can and some Saflager W-23/70. I have only just tapped this keg and what I am drinking is the best Lager I have ever tasted. 

:super:


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## Bribie G

Good choice of kit and also yeast, the Coopers Euro Lager, Cerveza and Canadian kits are quite lightly flavoured and coloured, so the kit doesn't fight against being pimped up.


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## Scottye

Thanks for the feedback Bribie G
Perhaps my other pimps won't be as successful? I hope they are!
I have
Coopers EB can with 1.5kg of Maris Otter, some spec grain and late Syrian Goldings
Coopers Pils can with 2kg Joe White Pilsner
Coopers APA with 1kg Maris Otter, crystal and late hopping (bottled this one looking for an early quaffer)

Pretty much hooked on grain even before I tasted this one.

Cheers


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## Dan Dan

Bribie G said:


> Good choice of kit and also yeast, the Coopers Euro Lager, Cerveza and Canadian kits are quite lightly flavoured and coloured, so the kit doesn't fight against being pimped up.


My last brew was a pimped up coopers Cerveza, and it turned out really nice. It was also my first kegged batch, so all in all, very happy with the results.


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## menoetes

This is a great thread and it has me very interested! Say ,can you do this method with unhopped malt extract?

I know you went down the simple road for all us beginners Bribie and I thank you for it, but could someone replace the kit with say, 2kg of liquid malt and do the one hour hop boil to control the hops themselves?


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## lukiferj

menoetes said:


> This is a great thread and it has me very interested! Say ,can you do this method with unhopped malt extract?
> 
> I know you went down the simple road for all us beginners Bribie and I thank you for it, but could someone replace the kit with say, 2kg of liquid malt and do the one hour hop boil to control the hops themselves?


Sure could. This would then just be a standard partial mash. Only thing you would need to allow for is the bitterness you would lose by using unhopped extract. Some extra early hops would fix that.


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## yum beer

menoetes said:


> This is a great thread and it has me very interested! Say ,can you do this method with unhopped malt extract?
> 
> I know you went down the simple road for all us beginners Bribie and I thank you for it, but could someone replace the kit with say, 2kg of liquid malt and do the one hour hop boil to control the hops themselves?


what you describe is 'extract brewing' replacing kit can with straight malt, you then add your own hops for bitterness, flavour and aroma.
Just swap out your kit can for an extract can. You will need a bigger pot for full extract....10 litres or preferabble 19/20 litres. 19 litre stockpot from Big W is around $20.


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## Bribie G

Believe it or not I'm doing more or less the same today but on a much bigger scale. I have a 60L fermenter and do double batches over the summer because I only have one fermenting fridge. I can't be bothered much to do a double batch today, so I'm doing a single BIAB full volume mash in urn, with 5.5 Kg of base pilsner grain. Then, into the fermenter: two tubs of maltose syrup and a tin of .... Boom- tish....... Coopers Canadian Blonde that I picked up from Big W. Brewing to 43L to get two kegs.

I can't decide what hops to use, probably US as I'll by using two sachets of BRY-97 so it will be a "Cream Ale" type brew. I'll do one addition in the urn and an aroma addition as hop tea into the fermenter.

@menoetes - Malt extract plus extra hops would be excellent if you can get fresh stuff, otherwised LDME.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

I just came across this thread, and its got me thinking about partial mashes again (due to time and financial constraints)


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## FirkinFantastic

Thanks for the post, it is a great into to grain brewing and I will definately be doing AG beers from now on. I have two questions: DO I put the lid on during the boil and how agressive is the boil. I aimed for a nice rolling boil without it being too angry or too slow and had the lid mostly on.


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## menoetes

I ended up try this yesterday. The cooler waterbath method is great! An hour in there with one top-up of 70'c water about 30min in and the mini- mash barely shifted in temperature at all. Though I think my efficiency must be a bit low, my OG ended up being about 5 points lower than Brewmate predicted it should be (or I am not using the program correctly).

I corrected that by dissolving another 400g of LDME in 800ml of water and pouring that in. It's a bit of a cavalier move I know and it messed about the temperature/volume of the wort a bit (after pitching) but we'll see how it goes.


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## indica86

FirkinFantastic said:


> Thanks for the post, it is a great into to grain brewing and I will definately be doing AG beers from now on. I have two questions: DO I put the lid on during the boil and how agressive is the boil. I aimed for a nice rolling boil without it being too angry or too slow and had the lid mostly on.


No lid on during the boil. I can't remember but there is some stuff that needs boiling off.


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## Matt Browne

Hi guys,

Pat at absolute homebrew has put this page together.

I'm currently working through the list and have been very impressed.

Hope it helps!!

https://absolutehomebrew.com.au/index.php?route=news/article&ncat=59&news_id=8


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## menoetes

Do NOT wring out? Damn, I tried another mini-mash last night and gave the bag a good squeezing.

Ah well we live and learn...


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## lukiferj

That's a personal preference that there has been much debate on. I'm a squeezer and have never noticed any difference in my beers.


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## Doug2232

I ordered the Unhopped Light Malt Extract 1.7kg from Daves HomeBrew before i saw the note regards the Coopers Pale Ale Can for this recipe http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1032-jets-fat-yak/

Will this cause an issue or is this Extract good enough?


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## stephenaf

Hey I have a 1kg of grain left over from my first biab attempt. I wanna try this technique to use it up. Just a quick question. Most the the tins call from sugar, do we skip this because we are getting all the sugars from the grain instead?


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## Bribie G

You'll get some sugars from the grain, but not all. That's why in the Original Post I also used the kilo box of Brew Enhancer 2 that I'd been given with the tin. The grain gives more body and flavour - for a kit plus grains with no sugars you'd need to mash around two to three kilos of grain, which you don't have in your case.

Depending on what style you are after you could substitute a kilo of light dried malt extract for the BE2.


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## Dae Tripper

Can anyone tell me why we need to boil for 1 hour after the mash? I had only been boiling for the length of my hop additions and I did a 10min IPA the other day!


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## Bribie G

In my original post I boil for an hour, but hops in at 30 minutes. The idea of the first half hour of boil is to coagulate stuff from the partial mash that might cause haze in the finished beer, then half an hour of hops.
There probably wouldn't be much difference in simply boiling for 30 minutes with the hops.

As the hops are boiled in the wort from the partial mash then the length of boil depends how bitter you want the beer. If it's a well hopped kit such as Coopers Real Ale and you are using the hops for flavour and aroma then a ten minute boil would be fine.

On the other hand if you are doing something really light in flavour such as a Cerveza kit plus some plain base malt and need a bit of background bitterness, then probably the half hour boil with a small amount of bittering hops (say Magnum or Galena) would be more appropriate as you aren't looking for much aroma, just a bit more bitterness than you would get from the Cerveza or Canadian kits. I did that myself just recently (kegged yesterday) with a "Blonde Ale" partial and a few grams of Super Alpha.


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## Dae Tripper

So it is just haze problems?

I am doing full extract, the 10min IPA was 230g of Amarillo for a boil of 10min so that's all the boiling I did after having the crystal grains in there for 30min at 66*c or so.


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## Alex.Tas

During the mashing process the S-Methyl Methionine (SMM) present in the grain will break down into dimethyl sulfide (DMS) and DMSO - an oxide variation of DMS.
Some grain contains more SMM than others which is primarily (as afar as I'm aware) due to the kilning temp of the grain. Lower temps means more SMM. Pilsner malt therefore contains more SMM than Munich for example.

DMS is a problem in beers as it has a flavour of cooked/creamed corn. All beers contain DMS, but some more than others and usually you want to reduce it as much as possible.
You can do this by boiling your wort for an extended period of time (60 min or more) as DMS is fairly volatile, which means it boils off at a low temp and is removed from your beer.
The half life during a rolling boil of DMS is 40 min so theoretically you reduce the DMS in your beer by half by boiling for 40 min, 75% after 80 min 87% by 120 min. Due to this evaporation of DMS, you should keep the lid off your boil kettle so it's doesn't just drip back into your beer.

The oxide variation of DMS isn't as volatile unfortunately and may be converted to DMS during fermentation. This is more common for cold fermenting lager yeasts. Ale yeasts if fermented vigorously can scrub some of the DMS out.
DMS can also be formed from SMM after the boil while the wort is still hot, so it's beneficial to cool the wort as quickly as possible to prevent this creating too much DMS.
I no-chill some of my beers (mostly lagers) and haven't had any issues with DMS, but I always do a 90min boil.

So, theoretically and generally speaking:

Pils malt will give you more DMS
lager yeast will convert more SMM into DMS during fermentation
slower chill times post boil will increase DMS in your beer (like I said i haven;t had any issues with nochilling my lagers, but that may be due to some other reason, I'm not sure.)
ways to reduce DMS

boil with the lid off your kettle
boil for longer
chill as fast as you can (also helps prevent infection and can help preserve hop flavour/aroma but i don't mean to discuss that as no-chill works very well for most people who do it, and can produce very hop heavy beers)
use grain that contains less SMM - but this obviously isn't practical if you want to brew light lagers.
using a vigorous ale yeast can reduce DMS in your beer
The reason you don't need to boil for 90 min with extract is because its likely been boiled for an extended period prior to packaging and the concentration stage (either to dry powder or thick gooey liquid malt) would have reduced most of the DMS for you.

That's a basic run down, hope it helps.

Edit: sorry i just read the last two posts, i didn't see them when i wrote my response. I should also add, that if you use 50% of your fermentables from kit/extract cans/powder then your DMS content would be dramatically reduced.


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## Dae Tripper

Thanks Alex, that was what I was after


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## wynnum1

Use a big pot nothing like a stove top boil over .


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## ekul

How does this beer compare to your AG beers bribie?


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## Bribie G

With the hop driven ones they are almost indistinguishable but the lighter brews such as blonde ales are definitely not as clean or crisp as an AG version, just a bit of fruitiness coming in.
As I only have one fermenting fridge I use a 60L fermenter during summer to do double batches and my "partials" are, nowadays, 75% AG and 25% da tin.

even these have a slight fruity "twang" but not bad for quaffers.

For newcomers who don't have the equipment yet for going full AG, a pimped kit is a good way of getting within striking difference.


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## Killer Brew

Question. Planning to do a partial in the esky today and just did an ingredient check....forgot to get any DME and LHBS not open today. Have worked out if I can get around 3kg grain in my mash (which I do have on hand) then I can get my beer up over 4% with good body. 
Clearly can't do this in my esky but I do have my 15L stock pot. Plan would be to get 10L of strike water holding at around 70 degrees on the gas stove top then add the bag with 3kg of grain in it and cover for an hour. Hopefully the same setting on the stove will maintain temp around the right level for me. After that sparge and boil as per normal. Am I missing anything?


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## Bribie G

One way of maintaining mash temperature is to sit your stockpot on a towel and put a cardboard box upside down over it, as close a fit as possible. I've seen a guy do that with his urn using the box it came in, and he only lost a degree and a half.

Or use a doonah.

Being a smaller volume with less thermal mass you may need to do a mid mash adjustment on the stove.


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## Killer Brew

Interesting. I do have some thin panels of polystyrene foam i kept so could probably line a box and fit over the stockpot. One thing is for sure and that is I will be learning something!


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## Yob

Killer Brew said:


> Question. Planning to do a partial in the esky today and just did an ingredient check....forgot to get any DME and LHBS not open today. Have worked out if I can get around 3kg grain in my mash (which I do have on hand) then I can get my beer up over 4% with good body.
> Clearly can't do this in my esky but I do have my 15L stock pot. Plan would be to get 10L of strike water holding at around 70 degrees on the gas stove top then add the bag with 3kg of grain in it and cover for an hour. Hopefully the same setting on the stove will maintain temp around the right level for me. After that sparge and boil as per normal. Am I missing anything?


Consider not insulating for a reverse mash and letting it drop over the hour.

Personally, if you are doing it on the stove, you could also consider a small step mash, 64 for 30 minutes, add a bit heat and stir until you get to 68.

Yum..


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## perko8

I've got a coopers Devils Half ruby porter nearly finished fermenting. Thinking about splitting it in secondary as I don't drink heaps of dark beer but would like to try variations.. 

Three things I'm thinking of:
1- Bottle a third as is. 
2- add choc malt and cold steeped coffee
3 - three kg of figs to put it over. 

How does that sound?

Alternatively I could hop it up to a dark ipa ish thing - boil some hops in crystal/ caramalt and cool to rack over.


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## Gigantorus

Other way to hold at temp when doing partial-mash is to sit your pot (with grains in a grain bag) in your oven at low temp. I do this for all my steeps/mini-mash/partial-mash. 

I just pull out the top 2 shelves and run the oven at 70C (I also use an oven thermometer to confirm my oven temp). My 18Litre pot fits just perfect in the oven.

Cheers,

Pete


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## Bribie G

I know a lot of American BIABers do the oven thing.


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## Gigantorus

I got told this some time back and it's has served me well.



perko8 said:


> I've got a coopers Devils Half ruby porter nearly finished fermenting. Thinking about splitting it in secondary as I don't drink heaps of dark beer but would like to try variations..
> 
> Three things I'm thinking of:
> 1- Bottle a third as is.
> 2- add choc malt and cold steeped coffee
> 3 - three kg of figs to put it over.
> 
> How does that sound?
> 
> Alternatively I could hop it up to a dark ipa ish thing - boil some hops in crystal/ caramalt and cool to rack over.


Perko,

Also consider cold steeping the choc malt overnight in the fridge - it will give it a less harsh flavour and bigger choc hit. Of course you'll then need to boil the liquid to pasturise.

Cheers,

Pete


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## Hermies

I like the Coopers IPA kit . I usually add another 2 - 3 kg of malt mash it for an hour ( I just put it in my 19lt pot and stick it the oven for an hour and then mash out and sparge ) I mix the wort with the Coopers can and then proceed to boil adding hops as I go . Once in the fermenter I usually dry hop and then bottle once the ferment has finished .Very drinkable . In fact a stout I made with a kit and kilo got 3rd in a state comp . So you can make good beer with a can of goo.


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## AussieBrew

Thia is a great write up. Muchly appreciated. I'm stepping up to partial from simple kits and steeping.


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## Hermies

Killer Brew said:


> Interesting. I do have some thin panels of polystyrene foam i kept so could probably line a box and fit over the stockpot. One thing is for sure and that is I will be learning something!


You could also stick it in the oven at mash temp .


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## Jangles

Bribie G said:


> Oh telepathic dude, I just kegged it off five minutes before you posted :lol:
> 
> It's very good indeed, in fact mate and myself are drinking the extra couple of litres right out of primary.
> 
> 
> View attachment 62679
> 
> 
> There's a slight "isohop" type bitterness but I don't know what the raw kit would taste like. Mate reckons it doesn't taste unpleasantly bitter to him - more like an old time beer he used to drink. However no perceivable "kit" twang in the malt portion, very smooth indeed, and those POR and the Coopers yeast have done their trick. And it's still cloudy and flat and warm.
> 
> BTW no real need to use a mini biab, I originally used a large $4 kitchen wire flour strainer from a two dollar shop to strain the grain into the stockpot then do a sparge with an electric jug, but a wee BIAB is more handle-able.
> 
> I'd really recommend doing this to step up from kits for anyone who needs "training wheels". When I did my very first AG I kept thinking "hey this is easy, I _know _this".



On ya bribie , ta for sharing this , its a good next step up from the can mans out there currently like myself .


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## Hangover68

I'm about to do a coopers pale ale with added crystal malt and cluster hops, how much difference does altering the amount of added malt make on the final product ? ie i have 1kg so should i use all or just use 500g and see how i like it ?
I'll stick to the 10g hop addition.


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## Hangover68

Did my pale ale kit today, pre ferment taste is awesome. Steeped grains at 70c in 2l of water for 60mins, added hops and then a 30min boil.
Currently cooling in a cube awaiting yeast addition, i made a mistake and didn't mill the grain before steeping so will see how it turns out.

CPA tin
BE2
500g Crystal malt
10g Cluster hops
SG 1060


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## peterlonz

Well you know you can't expect an optimum extraction if the grains are not crushed. But you have done no harm so relax.
I do not follow your method though: what exactly did you boil for 30 mins & why so long?


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## koshari

iam sure your pale will be fine however as peter mentioned not milling the grain will reduce the flavour you otherwise will have extracted from it, being a partial grain yo may as well eliminate the boill and use the kit for bittering. then add late dry hop for aroma and flavour. you dont state your batch size so iam assuming 20 to 23 litres where 10g of hops is going to be very light, i use 150g for 40 litres when dry hopping and could easily go 200g. also get yourself some Dry malt extract to use in place of the be2.


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## Hangover68

My reasoning was that the kit is already hopped so didn't want to go overboard, i read a few partial mash guides and picked a bit out of each. A lot of flavour came out so i know it will be an improvement of the kit alone, some guides said 150g and some said 1kg of grain so i went sort of middle of the road. 
I got the potatoe masher out and gave it a mash after i realised my mistake.


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## koshari

Hangover68 said:


> My reasoning was that the kit is already hopped so didn't want to go overboard, i read a few partial mash guides and picked a bit out of each. A lot of flavour came out so i know it will be an improvement of the kit alone, some guides said 150g and some said 1kg of grain so i went sort of middle of the road.
> I got the potatoe masher out and gave it a mash after i realised my mistake.


my go to batch summer ale uses 500g of crystal malt in 40 litres , i use 500g in my dark ale as well with 150g of roasted barley again in a 40l batch. i always use milled.

even with your unmilled batch you will get sweetness carry through from the les fermetable grains.


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## Hangover68

Certainly did, the taste pre yeast pitch was awesome, currently cold crashing and FG came down to 1.010 with an ABV of 6.56%.


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## Hangover68

When bottling i always put the last few bottles worth into odd bottles as samplers so after 1 week i test one then 2 weeks test another, cracked one open on Wednesday night and i must say its quite tasty.
Nicely carbonated (first time bulk priming) and with a slightly creamy head, no kit after taste at all.


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## MarkosBM

Good stuff mate. I used to tinker with partials, 2.5kg of grain with a 45min mash and 45min boil with max 20 g of hops added at both early and late. Mixed it with a coopers tin and the results where fantastic.

It was my gateway into AG, but honestly the partials make a great brew, and its a bit of fun mixing and matching.


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## Hangover68

MarkosBM said:


> Good stuff mate. I used to tinker with partials, 2.5kg of grain with a 45min mash and 45min boil with max 20 g of hops added at both early and late. Mixed it with a coopers tin and the results where fantastic.
> 
> It was my gateway into AG, but honestly the partials make a great brew, and its a bit of fun mixing and matching.



I think it will be a good way to use up small amounts of grain, i only used 500g and it made a marked difference to the original product.


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