# English Best Bitter



## Dazza_devil (22/7/09)

G'day Brewers,

I'm gonna put this in tomorrow, or a variation thereof.

25 litre batch

3kg LDME

400g Caramunich II
20g Black Malt

45g Northern Brewer Pellets @ 60 mins
25g Styrian Goldings @ 10 mins
25g Styrian Goldings dry hopped

S04 yeast @ 17 degrees

I'm unsure yet on the hop additions, possibly may add 20g Styrian Goldings @ flameout, dunno.
I also have some Pale Crystal, Caraaroma or Carared and unsure about adding more grain. Would the Caramunich II give much caramel flavour?
I do a 7 litre boil with steepings from the grain and 500g LDME for my hop additions. I'm looking for bitterness and malt balance without an overbearing hop flavour and aroma.
Feel free to tweek and let me know of any personally prefered improvements.
Cheers.


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## Bribie G (22/7/09)

If I were doing it , with two additions of Styrians I would tend to cut the Northern Brewer back to about 30g, English bitters aren't actually all that bitter and tend to be more malt driven, as you have done with the Cara and the black, and I would certainly put in about 200g of Carared :icon_cheers:


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## Bizier (22/7/09)

I agree on lowering the NB (maybe up the dry hopped styrians ?), maybe consider a little higher temp as well like 19 to 21 to get some yeast esters in there.


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## Dazza_devil (22/7/09)

Variation 2,

25 litres
3kg LDME
250g Caramunich II
200g Carared
20g Black Malt

According to Ian's spreadsheet that I've been using, my original hop schedule gives me 33.1 IBU's if using the hop concentration factor in the calculation.

30g NB pellets @ 60mins
30g SG @ 15 mins
25g SG @ flameout
30g SG dry hopped
(gives me 25 IBU according to Ian's spreadsheet, using HCF)

ferment SO4 @ 19 degrees

Edit - 4got LDME


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/7/09)

I would lose the Cara munich as I dont think it has the right flavour profile for the style.More styrians at flame out and you should be getting close .Bitters should be bitter, noticeably.Not IPA but perceivably bitter.
GB


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## Dazza_devil (23/7/09)

Variation 3.

26 litres

3kg LDME

100g Carared (just realised all I have left).
200g Pale Crystal (110 EBC)
100g Caraaroma
20g Black Malt
(22.4 EBC's)

40g NB @ 60 mins
30g SG @ 15 mins
30g SG @ flameout
30g SG dry hopped @ day 5 
(30.1 IBU's)

SO4 fermented @ 20 degrees

2 weeks in primary


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## gwozniak (23/7/09)

Are english bitters meant to have that much hop flavour/aroma?
Here's one from "Brewing classing styles" which by the way is a must have book

LEM 3kg

Aromatic 225g
Crystal 120L 225g
Special roast 110g

Kent goldings 34g 60min
Kent goldings 14g 20min
Kent goldings 14g 1min

Personaly I don't like Kent Goldings and tend to use Chalenger and Northdown in my english bitters




Boagsy said:


> Variation 3.
> 
> 26 litres
> 
> ...


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## Dazza_devil (23/7/09)

From AABC 2009 Style Guidelines.

*8. BITTER ALE​8.1. English Best Bitter​Appearance:​*​​​​Medium gold to medium copper. Good to brilliant clarity. Low to moderate white to off-white head.​
May have very little head due to low carbonation.​*Aroma:​*​​​​The best examples have some malt aroma, often (but not always) with a caramel quality. Mild to moderate​
fruitiness. Hop aroma can range from moderate to none (UK varieties). Generally no diacetyl, although very low​levels are allowed.​*Flavour:​*​​​​Medium to high bitterness. Most have moderately low to moderately high fruity esters. Moderate to low​
hop flavour (earthy, resiny, and/or floral UK varieties. Low to medium maltiness with a dry finish. Caramel​flavours are common but not required. Balance is often decidedly bitter, although the bitterness should not​completely overpower the malt flavour, esters and hop flavour. Generally no diacetyl, although very low levels are​allowed.​*Mouthfeel:​*​​​​Medium-light to medium body. Carbonation low, although bottled and canned commercial examples​
can have moderate carbonation.​*Overall Impression:​*​​​​A flavourful, yet refreshing, session beer. Some examples can be more malt balanced, but​
this should not override the overall bitter impression. Drinkability is a critical component of the style; emphasis is​still on the bittering hop addition as opposed to the aggressive middle and late hopping seen in American ales.​*History:​*​​​​Originally a draught ale served very fresh under no pressure (gravity or hand pump only) at cellar​
temperatures (i.e. real ale). Bitter was created as a draught alternative (i.e. running beer) to country-brewed pale​ale around the start of the 20​​​​th century and became widespread once brewers understood how to Burtonize their​
water to successfully brew pale beers and to use crystal malts to add a fullness and roundness of palate.​*Comments:​*​​​​More evident malt flavour than in an ordinary bitter, this is a stronger, session-strength ale. Most​
bottled or kegged versions of UK-produced bitters are higher-alcohol versions of their cask (draught) products​produced specifically for export. This style guideline reflects the real ale version of the style, not the export​formulations of commercial products.​*Ingredients:​*​​​​Pale ale, amber, and/or crystal malts, may use a touch of black malt for colour adjustment. May use​
sugar adjuncts, corn or wheat. English hops. Characterful English yeast. Often medium sulfate water is used.​*Vital Statistics:​OG FG IBUs ABV​*1040-1049 1008-1012 25-40 4.0-4.9%​*Commercial Examples:​*​​​​Fuller's London Pride, Adnams SSB, Youngs Special, Coniston Bluebird Bitter, Timothy​
Taylor Landlord, Robinsons Northern Glory, Shepherd Neame Masterbrew Bitter, Greene King Ruddles County​Bitter, RCH Pitchfork Rebellious Bitter, Brains SA, Harviestoun Bitter and Twisted, Goose Island Honkers Ale,​Rogue Youngers Special Bitter


I reckon to go a bit easy on the hop aroma, maybe cut it back a little from Variation 3. This may depend on how long it's gonna stay in the bottle but I have heard that Styrians has a very nice aroma for an EPA.


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## mwd (23/7/09)

There are literally hundreds of English Bitters all shades of different colours and hoppiness and flavours.

If you are not trying to make a 'Clone' of a particular brand then I would not stress too much and just go with whatever English bitter recipe takes your fancy.

My 10 pence worth.


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## np1962 (23/7/09)

Tropical Brews has it right, huge variations between bitters so go with what you think you will enjoy.
For me variation 3 looks OK but I would save the 30gm dry hop addition for use in my next batch.
Will add very little to the beer IMHO.
Cheers
Nige


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## bconnery (23/7/09)

I would dry hop with the SG. Bitters can be dry hopped in the cask and SG has a very nice aroma...


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## Hutch (23/7/09)

bconnery said:


> I would dry hop with the SG. Bitters can be dry hopped in the cask and SG has a very nice aroma...


I would probably not dry-hop with that much SG (30gm). A typical cask in the UK might get a plug or 2 - that's 14-28gm per cask. It is not an overly dry-hop dominated style, certainly not in the same way as an APA or IPA.
Otherwise, recipe looks OK as is. You might want to try a different yeast in future, as the S04 is a bit ho-hum IMHO. The various liquids are much better English alternatives (1187 Ringwood :wub: ).


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## Screwtop (23/7/09)

Boagsy said:


> Variation 3.
> 
> 26 litres
> 
> ...



Ran this through a little spreadsheet that I use and I make the OG around 1.047 and I'm the IBU 45. With near 12% cara/crystal malt and LDME the attenuation will be lower so maybe it will finish at say 1.014 probably that amount of sweetness will be able to support 45 IBU. 

Cheers,

Screwy



bconnery said:


> I would dry hop with the SG. Bitters can be dry hopped in the cask and SG has a very nice aroma...



Agree with Ben, I would cut the flameout hops, a waste when dry hopping. Cut the dry hop to 1g/L.


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## Dazza_devil (23/7/09)

Thanks Screwy,
The spreadsheet I use gives me OG of 1.046 and FG of 1.012. From previous brews with the spreadsheet I reckon you have it about right.
I think I'll stick with the original hop schedule but up the 10min addition to 30g.
If I can't smell Styrians at flameout I might be tempted to add 20g or so but will try to resist the urge.
I dry hopped an APA with Amarillo a few brews ago and it really added all the aroma that was driven off during fermentation. The hop flavour is still rounding off after 7 weeks in the bottle but it's very tasty.


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## Dazza_devil (23/7/09)

OG ended up around 1.046, smells and looks unreal.
I ended up leaving the 10 min addition of Styrians to steep 10 mins after flameout without any further additions. Not sure if this will impart much extra flavour but it really smells delicious. 
Thanks all.


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## tumi2 (23/7/09)

Just my 2 cents worth

I have now done 2 in a row using both those hops and yeast with a less complex grain bill. I am dissapointed with both of them as they have a cardboard or dusty taste.

I have opened another thread about this trying to find out what it is and general consensus comes down to it being oxidised due to my whirlpool when hot or the use of the S-O4 yeast. Some brewers have said they get a dusty flavour when using that yeast and avoid it now for that reason. I am an inexperinced brewer so i am not suggesting it is the yeast, it could well be my method or something else but it is certainly one thing i am going to change next time in an attepmt to find out what is going on with my 2 failed English Bitters

The link to my other thread about this if you want to read more or find alternative yeast suggestions

Link here
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=35248


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## Bribie G (23/7/09)

Personally I dislike S-04 and would recommend liquid yeasts for UK bitters and milds. At the current price they are only about twice the cost of a sachet of fermentis dried yeast and of course one smack pack can do quite a few 'generations' of ales especially if you cultivate the yeast out of a bottle of a successful batch, in exactly the same was as we already do with Coopers Pale/Sparkling bottles. 

I never had much luck replicating UK brews until I went onto Wyeast liquid yeasts such as Ringwood etc.


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## buttersd70 (23/7/09)

I'm keeping well out of this. I know _nothing _about English Bitters/ Milds. It's only what I brew 95% of the time. It's only the style of beer that was beaten in to me as a kid by my grandparents...._both _of whom worked at Websters (prior to the sell out).....it's only the type of beer that I grew up on, as a lad, with my (older) cousin sneaking me pints without my Da knowing.......


0.6-0.65 BU:GU. <0.75g/L late additions. Nuff said.

Edit....if I had a choice between so4 and a Donkeys turd, I'd take the Donkeys turd.....but thats just me.


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## Screwtop (23/7/09)

buttersd70 said:


> I'm keeping well out of this. I know _nothing _about English Bitters/ Milds. It's only what I brew 95% of the time. It's only the style of beer that was beaten in to me as a kid by my grandparents...._both _of whom worked at Websters (prior to the sell out).....it's only the type of beer that I grew up on, as a lad, with my (older) cousin sneaking me pints without my Da knowing.......
> 
> 
> 0.6-0.65 BU:GU. <0.75g/L late additions. Nuff said.
> ...




You're not the Mesiah you're just a naughty little boy who doesn't understand that every Brittish brewery learnt to make a great bitter using whatever yeast they had. If we are any good as brewers we should be able to do the same :lol:

Cheers,

Screwy


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## Dazza_devil (28/7/09)

Screwtop said:


> With near 12% cara/crystal malt and LDME the attenuation will be lower so maybe it will finish at say 1.014 probably that amount of sweetness will be able to support 45 IBU.



How does the crystal and LDME affect the attenuation?
This one looks to have pulled up a bit high as far as F.G. is concerned @ around 1.016. I've been getting higher FG readings since going all extract and using only LDME, speciality grains and hop pellets. My last 2 brews have had similar attenuation percentages such as 65% & 67%. I tried bumping up the temp and stirring the last brew but the hydrometer didn't budge a micron. This is all probably something for another thread but as far as this brew is concerned I was really hoping for a little lower FG.
I have a twin pack of S04 if needed to repitch a starter perhaps.
I've just dry hopped with 28g Styrians at day 5, perhaps this may wake it up a little.
Maybe I could add some dextrose, I dunno.
Or maybe just leave it and bottle if it's finished, sweeter than I wanted but nonetheless drinkable.
Suggestions?


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## Dazza_devil (21/8/09)

I bulk primed this brew according to style with 30g dextrose for 24 litres in an attempt to achieve around 1.3 vol CO2 using an average calculated through different priming calculators.
It's been in the bottle for around two weeks now and I tried a stubbie of it last night to find there was little if any carbonation and no head at all to speak of. There was however a bit of a phsssst... when I ripped the cap. It's still faily cold here in Tas and the bottles are maturing in my laundry closet. Is it likely that the beer will produce a head with some more time in the bottle or have I underprimed? The beer tastes a little green but otherwise OK so I'm hopeful it's not an infection. My tasters bottled from the dregs in stubbies with carb drops were well carbonated, produced a good head, and tasted very promising as well. All previous attempts to bulk prime have gone well and according to plan.
What sort of a head should I be expecting with such a low carbonation rate?


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## .DJ. (21/8/09)

little to no head according to guidelines...

I'd give it at least 4 weeks at current temps in Tassie...


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## drsmurto (21/8/09)

Pocket sparkler......


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## Dazza_devil (21/8/09)

I sometimes nod off and end up drinking the occasional half glass or so of my beers nearly flat without a head and it's really not that bad, too good to waste.


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## Scruffy (21/8/09)

I wud've thought 1.3 wouldn't be enough given the strength and hopping, though it looks like its on the darker side, is it too late to sneak some extra Dex in?... 
Nothing bad with S-04, you just have to compensate...
Bicarb, gypsum, acetic acid, calcium carbonate, toothpaste, soot, wasps...  
My house bitter is halcyon, carared, caraaroma, and any combo styrian, first gold, goggles, bramling cross, challenger, Target... (not all at once tho!). Comes out a nice red...


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## buttersd70 (21/8/09)

.DJ. said:


> little to no head according to guidelines...


thats a massive generalisation, and is a regional preference. In parts of the country, they'd complain if it had a head at all; in other parts, they'd complain if it didn't. And in Yorkshire, they'd complain if the head wasn't at least 2 inches thick.



DrSmurto said:


> Pocket sparkler......



At 1.3 vol, yep, pocket sparkler. Anything under 1.7 (ish) becomes very hard to form a head in a pour from a bottle, without the resistance that you would get from a tap or a pump. But as mentioned...head is a preference thing.


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## Dazza_devil (21/8/09)

There is 2 cartons of tallies and a dozen stubbies of it so I reckon I'll be quite used to it.
What would be a good estimate as to how long it would take to peak in respect to it's drinking quality and according to the style?


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## Scruffy (21/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> thats a massive generalisation, and is a regional preference. In parts of the country, they'd complain if it had a head at all; in other parts, they'd complain if it didn't. And ...something about yorkshire...



In Newcasle they give you a spoon. Think creme brulee...


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## buttersd70 (21/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> There is 2 cartons of tallies and a dozen stubbies of it so I reckon I'll be quite used to it.
> What would be a good estimate as to how long it would take to peak in respect to it's drinking quality and according to the style?



Hard to tell...but iirc it was about 1046/31ibu? 1.2g/L @ 15 and at f/o?...I'd hazard a guesstimate at ~3-4 weeks in the bottle to let the hops settle in, and should be noice.


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## hazard (21/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> There is 2 cartons of tallies and a dozen stubbies of it so I reckon I'll be quite used to it.
> What would be a good estimate as to how long it would take to peak in respect to it's drinking quality and according to the style?


I store my bottles in a spare room, during winter it takes at least 2 months for bottles to carb up. tassie might even be colder than Melbourne, so i would be thinking about late spring....


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## buttersd70 (21/8/09)

re my last: that was assuming a decent temperature for the first week or so, to allow for carbonation. Obviously, colder storage will require longer for the carb to happen.


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## Dazza_devil (24/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> re my last: that was assuming a decent temperature for the first week or so, to allow for carbonation. Obviously, colder storage will require longer for the carb to happen.




Thanks mate,
I've been roughly monitoring the temp. in the storage area and it's averaging temps are bewtween 10 and 15 degrees C, so it's not that cold but it may drop in the early hours a tad more at times. It would be the most constant temp that I can achieve for storage/conditioning at this time.
I was actually more curious as to when the brew would peak as far as it's drinking quality is concerned, apart from the carbonation levels which I now expect to be lttle if any. I bottled this on the 6th August so I'll try another on Thursday to monitor it's progress. 
What temperature are these particular styles of Ale enjoyed at in Mother England?


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## Back Yard Brewer (24/8/09)

Tropical_Brews said:


> There are literally hundreds of English Bitters all shades of different colours and hoppiness and flavours.
> 
> If you are not trying to make a 'Clone' of a particular brand then I would not stress too much and just go with whatever English bitter recipe takes your fancy.
> 
> My 10 pence worth.



Ditto, and you may find that is the best way to go.

BYB


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## Bribie G (24/8/09)

Yes, some parts of the UK have beers so distinctive that it's hard to pigeonhole them. One of my favourites is Camerons of Hartlepool Strongarm. It's not a Yorkie, it's not a Scottish 80 /- , it's not really a typical Tyneside beer either, it's a rich copper colour. Then head across the Vale of York and you are in Theakston country and their bitter is almost the colour of lager (or used to be before Scottish and Newcastle stuffed the recipe).

As Scruffy says in Newcastle - especially in the days of bright tank beer and electric pumps - would be served with a massive frothy head that stood about two inches above the top of the glass. When I was a lad in Newcastle there wasn't even anything called 'bitter', that was a term you heard on TV on Southern programs. We drank 'beor' or 'ale' (try saying it with a very soft 'y' at the front). In many parts of the South however, bitter is served quite flat without a trace of foam.

Pocket sparkler is a good idea because you get the creamy head and the relatively flat beer underneath, 

Pass me that spoon Scruffy :icon_drool2:


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## Dazza_devil (24/8/09)

Do they drink their bitters @ room temp. in England?


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## gap (24/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> Do they drink their bitters @ room temp. in England?



Not a simple answer to the question.

CAMRA answer would be At cellar temperature in a pub about 9C to 12C depending on 
where and what time of year.

Again this depends on whether you are talking about cask beer pulled through a 
beer engine or keg beer ( smooth flow etc) which may be colder.

At home it would be up to the individual. Certainly , in most cases, nowhere as cold as beer is served here in Australia.

Regards

Graeme


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## Bribie G (24/8/09)

edit: Gap beat me to it .... yes it's traditionally served at cellar temperature which is around 12 degrees celsius, depending on the area. When I lived in Cardiff we had an unusually cold winter which cooled the subsoil far more than usual. At the local steelworks pub the beer (Brains Dark, Bitter and Special Ales served on handpump) was being served too cold. Landlord discovered he could fit six pints into his industrial-sized microwave so he did 'a pint and a flash' for anyone complaining about the temperature of the beer.

However the filtered nitro 'cream flow' beers are served colder nowadays to cater for a generation who have become used to lagers. Personally when I have a UK on tap I set the kegerator to 10 degrees. Coopers style sparkling and pales go well at that temp as well.


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## buttersd70 (24/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> What temperature are these particular styles of Ale enjoyed at in Mother England?






gap said:


> Not a simple answer to the question.
> 
> CAMRA answer would be At cellar temperature in a pub about 9C to 12C depending on
> where and what time of year.
> ...



Yep, exactly. In winter, I like lighter beers at around 10C, darker beers at around 12C, and heavies (like stouts etc) at around 15C. Thats my personal preference.
In summer, I generally drink all styles cooler. Lighter beers probably about 7C, darker beers about 9, stouts (on the rare occasions i have them in warm weather) at around 10-12. Again it's preference only.

So for me, it varies, depending on the ambient. But I never, _ever _go below 6-7C (for English styles), no matter how hot the day is. It just chokes the flavour up too much, imo.


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## Howlingdog (24/8/09)

Last time I visited Fullers @ cheswick, I commented to the barman that I'd had some very warm beers lately. He said, "Not in our pubs - 11 deg.C" He took me into the cellar and showed me the equipment that was installed in all their pubs. He said if he found out that any pub was serving their beer at the wrong temperature he was be down on them like a ton of bricks.


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## Scruffy (24/8/09)

While I was looking after it, I kept the cellar at the Old Duke in Bristol at 11C, absolutely perfect in summer if it got too hot upstairs, 'i'm just going to tap a couple of barrels...'

Hey Bribie... will this do...?





That'll get 'em guessing... eh??


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## Dazza_devil (29/8/09)

Is that for eating the froth or serving ice-cream?

This brew is starting to carbonate a little now after 3 weeks in the bottle and managed to maintain a 5mm white head throughout. It has a some nice little bubbles forming but still tasting a little harsh. I reckon another 4-5 weeks and this is gonna be nearly all gone.


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