# Biab Hoisting Or Pulley System?



## Mister (10/6/10)

Greetings,

I'm curious (and keen to copy) what other brewers have devised to hoist biab bags after mashing? I have a crown urn and was thinking about a rachet tie-down strap but I'm sure there have been some far more ingenious methods deployed.

Pics would help greatly too 

Thanks all,

M


----------



## Pollux (10/6/10)

*Awaits BribieG.........*

I have seen others who have used a pulley mounted to a beam in the garage and used something along the lines of a blocksplitter to act as a counterweight to hold the bag at the right height for them.


----------



## whitegoose (10/6/10)

I just use a patio hanging basket hook and some rope running through the tags in my gryphon BIAB bag - For single batches you really don't need a pulley or anything fancy (unless you like gadgets etc), I can hoist my bag up with no effort at all, and there is no pulley wheel for the rope to get stuck in! Then I just tie off the rope on the table my urn sits on.


----------



## Bribie G (10/6/10)

Unrecycled  BribieG photos taken just now:









Awning pulley about $8
Cleat hook about $8
Verandah cord - thick enough so it doesn't foul in the pulley. 
I have the urn on a tool trolley now so I can position it under the ceiling inspection hatch 

Total cost of system around $20 but the cleat is the best thing I ever bought for ease of use and safety.


Edit: of course you could also have the rope running through a big eye bolt screwed into that spar instead of a pulley. The hoisting action itself is left hand hoist the bag as high as you want, then tie off round the cleat with the right hand before your muscles run out


----------



## felten (10/6/10)

I have one of those cheap awning pulleys as well (the double one is worse since its off center) and they are terrible, if your rope isn't thick enough it will just keep sliding off the wheel and jamming. Not sure if bunnings or anyone else do a better version?

ps. I bet your neighbours would be worried if they saw you setting up your noose Bribie


----------



## Bribie G (10/6/10)

Yes I had that trouble with a thinner cord, but the thick one is the go. Current place is ok and quite private, but previous address was right on a bus route and I had to check that there wasn't a bus coming when I stood on the chair to hang the noose :lol: Also I wear a lab coat in the winter and I'm surprised I didn't get raided by the cops, guy in lab coat walking around in garage with glass jars and syringes etc with clouds of steam billowing h34r:


----------



## Thirsty Boy (10/6/10)

I use a hook and nothing but. I don't "hoist" the bag as its not even close to heavy enough to need it, I just want a way to hang it over the pot while it drips out - saves me having to wash a bucket.

I think the hook cost me 50c or something like that.


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (10/6/10)

Don't have a pic, but...

I use a gantry crane I built using a heavy duty sliding door kit, a few metres of galvanised angle iron, a pulley, a CMI Ultra ascender (as used by cavers and climbers and the like) and some odds and sods. Cost (all up) more than it should. But, I like it.

Not recommended for rental accommodations.


----------



## Bribie G (10/6/10)

I didn't mention that when the bag is removed I use the noose to hang the hopsock as well so a bit of up-and-down flexibility is useful as I progressively lower the sock as the wort evaporates, as well as pulling it up for a good drain a few times - if it wasn't for that I'd Probably just use the TB method.


----------



## leiothrix (10/6/10)

I use an electric hoist.

To raise or lower the bag, or to just hold it steady to drain, all I have to is press a button.

Rob.


Edit: In the first photo you can see the awning pully that I previously used. I got sick of that though, I never seemed to have enough hands.


----------



## Phoney (10/6/10)

I dont have any overhead beams to hang a skyhook from, so I made a stand. It isnt quite finished yet, but here it is.


Bottom half




Top half





A sheet of ply sits on top of the feet, followed by a milk crate, followed by the urn. The top half slides out for easy storage.

Cost of materials: $54 (I already had the rope and pulley)

It just needs a lick of paint before it rusts anymore, and a hole drilled in the top to mount a hook bolt which the pulley will latch onto.


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (10/6/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> <snip>
> 
> It just needs a lick of paint before it rusts anymore, and a hole drilled in the top to mount a hook bolt which the pulley will latch onto.



Get yerself to BlueScope Distribution (I recently discovered the one in Ballarat) and you will find spray cans of high-zinc paint for less than ten dollars...


----------



## Bribie G (10/6/10)

leiothrix said:


> I use an electric hoist.
> 
> To raise or lower the bag, or to just hold it steady to drain, all I have to is press a button.
> 
> ...



I'm getting on a bit, in a few years I'll be installing one of those :lol:


----------



## Phoney (10/6/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> Get yerself to BlueScope Distribution (I recently discovered the one in Ballarat) and you will find spray cans of high-zinc paint for less than ten dollars...



Too late.

I bought a tin of Wattyl kill rust enamel. Paint & primer in one.


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (10/6/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> Too late.
> 
> I bought a tin of Wattyl kill rust enamel. Paint & primer in one.



Yer... I got some of that and it's good. Gotta love the high-zinc paint though: Cold Gal!!!


----------



## Bribie G (10/6/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> Too late.
> 
> I bought a tin of Wattyl kill rust enamel. Paint & primer in one.


 :icon_offtopic: I've bought a tubular metal bedframe from local op shop and it's already painted but rust patches etc - what would be the best kilrust product for an already painted surface ? The killrust website is a bit unclear for already painted surfaces that you are just putting a coat over to renovate it.


----------



## boobiedazzler (10/6/10)

I transfer my bag from the urn to a 19L pot, place it on the ground and tie it to a heavy duty shovel handle that's mounted vertically between my balcony and my garden bench. Then I twirl, twirl, twirl until all the juice is out. 

A warning to others. I twirled too much last brew, and SNAP - the bloody twine broke  She was tightly wound, let me tell you. But I'll blame Spotlights poor quality products of course. How dare they not stand up to the extreme rigours of home brewing.


----------



## mccuaigm (10/6/10)

I have just done the same as Bribie, put an eye hook in a beam & bought a cleat & mounted that on the wall.

Before that, i used a ladder, one of those sectioned ones. My new pot don't fit under it though <_<


----------



## katzke (11/6/10)

I found a used typing table to set the burner and kettle on. Drilled a hole in the top and stuck a left over tent pole in it. Put some kind of a hook I found in the hardware drawer in then end of the pole. I can adjust the height of the pole if needed. 

I take the bag string over the hook and lift with one hand while holding down the loose end with the other. When I get the bag the correct height I use a small spring clamp to clamp the cord together. Total cost I think 1USD plus found parts. Best part is it is portable so I can brew any place I want.

Lifting the bag is not the hard part. It is holding it up for 15 minutes while it drains that gives you a good work out.


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

I would way rather buy a $30 eski from KMart than screw around with electronic pully systems and custom fabricated devices rofl!

Good on yas but, nothing wrong with it.


----------



## mccuaigm (11/6/10)

Hey Mark,

How do you have your esky setup? I have an old esky here, but can't afford another ball lock valve, false bottom etc etc.

Maybe i missed something in making a cheaper MT. Anything for simplicity & effective here :icon_cheers:


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

I don't have an Eski mate, I BIAB.

I'm just saying, imagine if BIAB was the 'normal' way to brew beer, and we were all sitting around after a while a bit annoyed at the bag hoisting and squeezing. Someone then comes up with elaborate structures to hold the bag without needing a skyhook. Someone elses uses electronic hoists. Also the whole time we are talking about ways to insulate the urn during the mash.

Then some bright spark comes up with a great idea, why not do the mashing in a separate vessel to the boil? We could even use an eski for its inbuilt insulation! We could then just sit it higher than the kettle so that there's no hoisting needed, and gravity does all the work!

I honestly think if BIAB was the default someone would come up with 3V brewing as a better alternative (better in some ways).

The main issues I have with BIAB are.

1 - Insulation during the mash.
2 - Draining / squeezing / lifting the bag.

Everything else is perfect. Less equipment, less room needed etc.

If you're going to custom weld a structure to lift the bag you may as well custom weld a brew stand.
If you're going to buy an electronic hoist you may as well buy a march pump.

etc.

But again this is just my opinion, I like that people are going overboard. It's fun.


----------



## samhaldane (11/6/10)

I have just started creating a loop with the end of my bag drawstring and tieing a taut line hitch. This allows me to adjust the bag up and down easily depending on what I'm doing (draining, dunk sparging). My new house conveniently had a hook mounted in the middle of the top of my back doorway, which works a treat.

Happy to post some pics if people are interested, but will have to wait until Sunday (brewday).


----------



## katzke (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> The main issues I have with BIAB are.
> 
> 1 - Insulation during the mash.
> 2 - Draining / squeezing / lifting the bag.
> ...



Lift the bag or deal with an Eski full of grain and left over wort?

Heat loss is easy. Wrap the dang kettle with any old blanket or whatever.

I have seen home brewers mess about with their fancy systems. They can keep it. Especially the cleaning of pumps, pipes, and valves.


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

katzke said:


> Lift the bag or deal with an Eski full of grain and left over wort?



The Eski one seems much easier. When I lift and drain the bag it is an annoying task. It is also annoying to deal with spent grain from a bag and I don't see how it'd be much worse than dealing with spent grain in an eski. I imagine with an eski you would use the eskis own handles to carry it to the bin, dump the grain in, then hose the rest out. Quick wipe down and its good to go. With a bag you have to get it to the bin without dripping, empty it, then rinse out excess grain from the bag as much as possible then put it in the washing machine. Eski wins this round.




katzke said:


> Heat loss is easy. Wrap the dang kettle with any old blanket or whatever.



This is what I currently do and it's annoying. A vessel with in-built insulation would be much easier.


----------



## Phoney (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> If you're going to custom weld a structure to lift the bag you may as well custom weld a brew stand.



Unless of course, you dont have enough room for a brew stand. A structure to lift and hang a bag takes up no room.




Mark^Bastard said:


> I like that people are going overboard. It's fun.



And I love going overboard! :icon_cheers: 



Mark^Bastard said:


> The Eski one seems much easier. When I lift and drain the bag it is an annoying task. It is also annoying to deal with spent grain from a bag and I don't see how it'd be much worse than dealing with spent grain in an eski. I imagine with an eski you would use the eskis own handles to carry it to the bin, dump the grain in, then hose the rest out. Quick wipe down and its good to go. With a bag you have to get it to the bin without dripping, empty it, then rinse out excess grain from the bag as much as possible then put it in the washing machine. Eski wins this round.



You're doing it wrong.

Get garbage bags, you buy a pack of 30 for 3 bucks. Put the opening of the BIAB bag into the opening of the garbage bag, lift the bottom of the BIAB bag and transfer the grains from one to the other. Tie it off so it dont stink and hurl it into the bin. Then turn the BIAB bag inside out and shake it a few times like you're shaking sand off a beach towel, then give it a quick rinse under a tap & hang it out to dry. Once it's dry give it another good shake and it's all done for next time.



Mark^Bastard said:


> This is what I currently do and it's annoying. A vessel with in-built insulation would be much easier.



Takes me all of about 20 seconds to wrap a blanket around the urn, loop a rope around and tie it off.


----------



## QldKev (11/6/10)

We built our pulley system into the main stand, that way you can brew anywhere. 

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=534851 

QldKev


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

phoneyhuh said:


> Unless of course, you dont have enough room for a brew stand. A structure to lift and hang a bag takes up no room.



I can't think how it could possibly take up no room. A skyhook yes, but a stand will surely at least take up room vertically and some amount of room horizontally. I don't have the space for either by the way.



phoneyhuh said:


> Get garbage bags, you buy a pack of 30 for 3 bucks. Put the opening of the BIAB bag into the opening of the garbage bag, lift the bottom of the BIAB bag and transfer the grains from one to the other. Tie it off so it dont stink and hurl it into the bin. Then turn the BIAB bag inside out and shake it a few times like you're shaking sand off a beach towel, then give it a quick rinse under a tap & hang it out to dry. Once it's dry give it another good shake and it's all done for next time.



Actually I empty my spent grain back into the vacuum bag that the grain came in and then wrap it in two woolworths plastic bags and chuck it in the bin, but you haven't really taken my point into consideration which compares the two methods. I can dump an eskis grain into a garbage bag just as easily for example.

It's interesting though what you've said with regards to the bag. Do you ever wash it?



phoneyhuh said:


> Takes me all of about 20 seconds to wrap a blanket around the urn, loop a rope around and tie it off.



So you have a dedicated BIAB blanket sitting in your brewery? Doesn't this take up about as much room as an eski would? Me I have to go and grab it off the spare bed, hope the spare bed doesn't have crap all over it, take it downstairs, wrap it around, and then go and make the bloody bed again afterwards.

If I had the space for a dedicated blanked I'd have the space for an eski and I know which one I'd prefer!

I do have a two part tool chest like the following







I'm thinking about getting an eski and going two vessel and using a make shift gravity fed system. I'll start my urn up on my work bench as a HLT, with an eski sitting on the bigger part of the tool chest, with the smaller tool chest on the floor. I'll use the urn to fill the eski, then move the urn down to sit on top of the smaller tool chest so that I can gravity feed from the eski back to the urn which will work as a boiler.

Only extra room it will take up is the eski which isn't that much if I get one that only holds about 35L


----------



## katzke (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> The Eski one seems much easier. When I lift and drain the bag it is an annoying task. It is also annoying to deal with spent grain from a bag and I don't see how it'd be much worse than dealing with spent grain in an eski. I imagine with an eski you would use the eskis own handles to carry it to the bin, dump the grain in, then hose the rest out. Quick wipe down and its good to go. With a bag you have to get it to the bin without dripping, empty it, then rinse out excess grain from the bag as much as possible then put it in the washing machine. Eski wins this round.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Talk to heating contractors. I saw a brew system that had an insulated mash tun and it used the double foil covered fiberglass or whatever it is like they wrap heating pipes or flues with. It put up with the heat of the gas burner just fine. The only problem was if you spilled any wort it got in the insulation.

Sounds like you are a glass half empty, grass is always greener, kind of person.

Not sure you would really like to move an Eski around that is head high. If it is not head high then the boil kettle is not high enough to drain into the fermentor.

And to answer your later posted question. Who washes the bag in the clothes washer? I dump the grain out for the chickens, give some to the dogs, rinse any leftover down the drain and hang the bag to dry. I do not want any soap or fabric softener residue getting in my beer. The only time I clean the bag any different is when I forget to dump the grain after a late night end to a brewing session. Then I clean it with PBW.

Oh and if I do not dump the grain out for the chickens then I dump it in a bucket. The rest is the same. I would much rather dump and rinse a bag then clean an Eski with a filter screen in it.


----------



## komodo (11/6/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> Get yerself to BlueScope Distribution (I recently discovered the one in Ballarat) and you will find spray cans of high-zinc paint for less than ten dollars...



F*** those pricks. They import fully fabricated steel from China under their "bluescope-butler" brand and their PEBs and try to pass themselves off as supporting Australian jobs. All they support is the lining of their shareholders pockets. 
Sorry just a touchy subject. 
http://www.bluescopesteel.com/news/bluesco...steel-buildings 
/end rant

Zincit should be around the $10 mark and available (or a comparitive product) at most bolt/fasteners distributors. ie Coventrys, Warburtons etc. 
On a side note steel lasts a bloody long time even when rusted. Unless you've got something in a highly corosive environment and its made of extremely thin material I'd just hit it with a wire brush and a can of primer. Cheaper and just as effective.


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (11/6/10)

Apologies if I appear to be trying to bring the conversation back on topic...  

Here's a pic I took of the aforementioned gantry:

I can't get the IMG thing to work for me...


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (11/6/10)

Komodo said:


> F*** those pricks. They import fully fabricated steel from China under their "bluescope-butler" brand and their PEBs and try to pass themselves off as supporting Australian jobs. All they support is the lining of their shareholders pockets.
> Sorry just a touchy subject.
> http://www.bluescopesteel.com/news/bluesco...steel-buildings
> /end rant




I hear ya, but I've convinced myself there are no moral large companies left and if I want to buy stuff, I just have to live with all that.


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

katzke said:


> Sounds like you are a glass half empty, grass is always greener, kind of person.



Not at all.



katzke said:


> Not sure you would really like to move an Eski around that is head high. If it is not head high then the boil kettle is not high enough to drain into the fermentor.



I cube which is a moot point as my cube is as high as a fermenter.

My kettle is about 40cm high.

All up I could easily have my mash tun about 80cm off the ground, certainly no where near head height (WTF) and I never mentioned moving the mash tun anyway! I mentioned moving the urn from HLT position to kettle position. The urn would be empty by that stage so no dramas in moving it.


----------



## Ross (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'm thinking about getting an eski and going two vessel and using a make shift gravity fed system. I'll start my urn up on my work bench as a HLT, with an eski sitting on the bigger part of the tool chest, with the smaller tool chest on the floor. I'll use the urn to fill the eski, then move the urn down to sit on top of the smaller tool chest so that I can gravity feed from the eski back to the urn which will work as a boiler.
> 
> Only extra room it will take up is the eski which isn't that much if I get one that only holds about 35L



:super: perfect.....  

Cheers Ross


----------



## Phoney (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I can't think how it could possibly take up no room. A skyhook yes, but a stand will surely at least take up room vertically and some amount of room horizontally. I don't have the space for either by the way.



No. My stand is basically two pipes, one has legs. The two pipes slide apart and then lay down, outside, on the ground, along the wall, behind the BBQ where I cant see them. Could I keep an esky mush tun outside in the dirt & exposed to the weather? no.




Mark^Bastard said:


> It's interesting though what you've said with regards to the bag. Do you ever wash it?



Nope. I soaked it in napisan once to bring back the whiteness, but that was it.



Mark^Bastard said:


> So you have a dedicated BIAB blanket sitting in your brewery? Doesn't this take up about as much room as an eski would? Me I have to go and grab it off the spare bed, hope the spare bed doesn't have crap all over it, take it downstairs, wrap it around, and then go and make the bloody bed again afterwards.
> 
> If I had the space for a dedicated blanked I'd have the space for an eski and I know which one I'd prefer!



That sucks, I pull mine out of a linen closet and then put it back in when im done. Takes me another 20 seconds. Have a look in vinnies..





Mark^Bastard said:


> I'm thinking about getting an eski and going two vessel and using a make shift gravity fed system. I'll start my urn up on my work bench as a HLT, with an eski sitting on the bigger part of the tool chest, with the smaller tool chest on the floor. I'll use the urn to fill the eski, then move the urn down to sit on top of the smaller tool chest so that I can gravity feed from the eski back to the urn which will work as a boiler.
> 
> Only extra room it will take up is the eski which isn't that much if I get one that only holds about 35L




Well that sounds great, but when I was looking at starting out in AG, $295 for an esky that had been converted to a mash tun from my LHBS (I didnt have the confidence, time or inclination on building my own gear at that stage) on top of the $270 for an urn was beyond my means and budget so I decided to go with BIAB, and I still reckon im better off space wise and equipment wise on improving what ive got rather than acquiring another vessel.


----------



## PistolPatch (11/6/10)

*Mash Tuns and Tiers*

A mash tun is not fun to clean. The inconvenience of this (and I have done both) is more than the few second inconvenience of hoisting a bag and the rinsing of the grain bag (do it under a tap and then throw in washing machine.) This is even more so for double-batches.

Another huge advantage of BIAB over a non-pumped traditional system is that BIAB is a single tier system with the tier being at bench height. With a non-pumped traditional system, many people (unless they have a four-tier stand made up of tiers at varying heights) end up having to lift their full kettle (hot if they are no-chilling) to a height at which it will drain into the fermenter. You don't hear this talked about too much .

*Insulation*

I know that some people like to insulate their kettles but doing so can also lose one advantage of BIAB, this being the ability by the occassional stir and application of heat to maintain a consistent mash temperature. Maintaining the correct mash temperature is not a difficult or time-consuming process so people should not feel as though insulation is an advantage.

*Pulleys*

Pulleys are simple and great especially if doing double batches. I usually do double batches so I have good pulleys and a cleat which allows me to let the bag hang in or just above the wort. Spent the first two years though doing it all by hand.


Pat


----------



## Thirsty Boy (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Not at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know this is OT to this topic - but if you do that, you either need to use another vessel as a buffer tank to hold your first run-off from the eski (your kettle is being used as your HLT) OR - you need to make sure your eski is big enough to hold the full volume, so you can do a single run-off/no sparge type brew.

Given that - it will of course work perfectly. I've brewed that way myself a fair few times and next to (un-mucked about with) BIAB its about the easiest way to handle your mash/lauter.


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

I'm a BIABer but it really shits me off when people from both camps make out their processes are simpler than they are.

Like as if building a simple eski mash tun is so hard but building a structure out of poles to hoist a bag and then dissembling it to store it in the garden is really easy and convenient.

It's not for my benefit, it's for the benefit for anyone reading who is thinking how they want to go with AG. There's no need to sell your process to people, just be accurate about it IMO.


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> OR - you need to make sure your eski is big enough to hold the full volume, so you can do a single run-off/no sparge type brew.



That's my intention.

I will probably do this soon enough. Then from there I'll decide if I want to make/buy a HLT and go fully 3V, or just go back to standard BIAB and use the Eski for beer.


----------



## haysie (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I honestly think if BIAB was the default someone would come up with 3V brewing as a better alternative (better in some ways).



That happened many moons ago  

I had a go at biab and hated the pulley,drain,squueze thing. I never pursued it further but have tasted some great BIAB beers nonetheless.


----------



## Thirsty Boy (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> That's my intention.
> 
> I will probably do this soon enough. Then from there I'll decide if I want to make/buy a HLT and go fully 3V, or just go back to standard BIAB and use the Eski for beer.



OT again - Sorry

Yep - You can go with all 3V if you need to, its a little less pain in the bum than transferring the kettle. But to be honest.. not a lot. If you do - make sure you get a 60L pot as your BK. With a 40L urn, an eski big enough to brew as we've just been talking about; and a 60L pot... you'll have a system thats great to do single batches well, but that can also stretch to doubles without having to jump through any hoops to handle the volume.


----------



## Phoney (11/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'm a BIABer but it really shits me off when people from both camps make out their processes are simpler than they are.
> 
> It's not for my benefit, it's for the benefit for anyone reading who is thinking how they want to go with AG. There's no need to sell your process to people, just be accurate about it IMO.



Chill out bro, If you look back at the OP, Mister was asking what contraptions we use to hoist our bags and how we do it. He wasn't asking whether it's worth building anything fancy vs building something completely different all together and not doing BIAB at all. That was the purpose of this thread if I read it correctly?

Secondly, most of us only have experience in our own processes and can only fathom difficulties that brewers have with other systems (plus we cant help but feel a bit proud of what we've built) so it's no wonder we're all a little biased. 

In reality the only true way to settle the score is to run each system side by side and compare, but even then you'd still have too many factors and considerations to take into account - so whatever floats your boat and works in your own home is all fine by me. :icon_cheers:


----------



## MarkBastard (11/6/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> OT again - Sorry
> 
> Yep - You can go with all 3V if you need to, its a little less pain in the bum than transferring the kettle. But to be honest.. not a lot. If you do - make sure you get a 60L pot as your BK. With a 40L urn, an eski big enough to brew as we've just been talking about; and a 60L pot... you'll have a system thats great to do single batches well, but that can also stretch to doubles without having to jump through any hoops to handle the volume.



I can't realistically see myself doing double batches and the main reason I currently BIAB is from lack of room so I don't see that ever happening.

The 40L urn will definitely be for the boil and for the HLT I'd either get another urn if a bargain comes up or go the bucket of death route!


----------



## manticle (11/6/10)

PistolPatch said:


> *Mash Tuns and Tiers*
> 
> A mash tun is not fun to clean. The inconvenience of this (and I have done both) is more than the few second inconvenience of hoisting a bag and the rinsing of the grain bag (do it under a tap and then throw in washing machine.) This is even more so for double-batches.
> 
> Another huge advantage of BIAB over a non-pumped traditional system is that BIAB is a single tier system with the tier being at bench height. With a non-pumped traditional system, many people (unless they have a four-tier stand made up of tiers at varying heights) end up having to lift their full kettle (hot if they are no-chilling) to a height at which it will drain into the fermenter. You don't hear this talked about too much  .



I'm the last person to try and negatively compare BIAB to 2 or 2v - I think both methods can make good beer and I have tasted good beers made with HERMS, RIMS, Eski tun, BIAB and bucket o'death. Doesn't really matter - what matters is the brewer, the recipe/ingredients and the fermentation process.

However lifting a 50 L keggle high enough to drain into my cube is one of the least difficult bits of my brew day. Admittedly most of my jobs involve lifting awkward, heavy and often precious stuff and there is so far nothing wrong with my back so maybe I'm lucky. When I can't lift I'll build a brewstand - as Mark suggests - building pulleys and hoists or building stands are possibly much of a muchness.

The bench I lift my kettle onto for cube draining is about thigh height.

Cleaning my tun is as difficult as throwing the grain in the garden then giving the tun a quick scrub. Even a BIAB pot would need a clean after a brew.

All these systems make beer. Arguing about which is better has always seemed pointless to me - unless you can actually taste it.


----------



## Cocko (12/6/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I can't realistically see myself doing double batches and the main reason I currently BIAB is from lack of room so I don't see that ever happening.
> 
> The 40L urn will definitely be for the boil and for the HLT I'd either get another urn if a bargain comes up or go the bucket of death route!



If it works for the brewer than it is right! IMO!




manticle said:


> All these systems make beer. Arguing about which is better has always seemed pointless to me - unless you can actually taste it.



Only reason I left the bag was to brew bigger batches, have my beers changed? - only in volume.

Do you like _'your_' beer?

EZ.


----------



## Mister (19/6/11)

Went with a tie-down ratchet system in the end:





Works quite well so far.

M


----------



## MHB (19/6/11)

Only done a couple of BIAB brews (just to familiarise myself with the process)
40 L urn, A-Frame ladder, a piece of rope and a knot called a sheep bend was all it took.
Just straddled the urn with the ladder and put a piece of bar between the treads. The Sheep bend is a knot that is used to tie thin and thick rope together so it doesnt let the gathered bag slip and is easy to undo.
Mind you reading the previous couple of pages, the number of possibilities and the level of peoples creativeness is amazing.
MHB


----------



## Bribie G (19/6/11)

Another tweak, I bought a pack of those stainless steel "S" shaped hooks and hang the awning pulley from the hook with the other end of the hook through the "strapping" on the beam, so I can remove everything easily and take my BIAB rig to brew days - there's always a skyhook spot somewhere - Hi, I'm Fred's mate.... don't mind me sweety just keep putting on your makeup - aha that's the spot I'm looking for up there , just borrowing your stool for a minute............:icon_cheers:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/6/11)

Just to add another process to add to the many. I don't think mine is the best or the easiest process (actually I think it's probably far more time consuming than some - but I view brewing a bit like making the odd meal - it's an opportunity to do something manual and creative, unlike auditing (my job), and taking a bit of time is something I enjoy. Only difference is that I don't drink making beer (ironic innit?), unlike cooking where the food is less toasted than me!)

On topic.

My system is 2 x stovetop method. That gives me a good batch size, head room for the boil, stepped mashing/mash out opportunities (if required) and no high-grav shenanigans required.

I pick up the bags (there are 2), and place each one into a 7L pasta pot, let it drain until it doesn't trickle, pour the extras into the "kettle" (the pot from whence it came). I then sparge the bag in the pasta pot to the required volume, runnings go into the "kettle". Repeat process for the 2nd bag.

The downside is that it does take longer, as I'm repeating the process across two pots. If I did it in one larger sized pot, I'd cut the time down, but see caveat above re: time.

I did have an esky mash tun. I take complete responsibility for my dodgy DIY skills. It didn't work out, but that was my fault. Cleaning it out was a major pain in the rear, but if I had built it better to continue with it, I'd have just got a larger bag/voile piece, to solve that.

My biggest reasons for my system. 1. I know it inside out back to front, and I produce consistent quality beers, regardless of style. 2. It requires no extra equipment and the cost of my brewery has not increased in the last year. 3. Space and "deconstruction" efficient. I can be in and out of the kitchen and the kit goes into the utility cupboard. It's apartment friendly as well (for when we move into a townhouse/apartment from the two-story monstrosity we have).

Yes, I go to Ross' place and love the bling, but I'm not paying for it for a few extra % efficiency and slightly easier brew day. In the cost-benefit analysis, it doesn't stack up, _in my case_. I respect other people's systems, and their probable better AG brewing experience. What I have works for me, my space, my abilities.

And I agree with M^B and TB - great to share and great to read others' system. This is what a forum like this exists for.

Goomba


----------



## mccuaigm (19/6/11)

Here's something I knocked up for my new shed


----------



## Nick JD (19/6/11)

My batches are so small I can just lift the bag out. Each keg is a different batch though, which I find a good tradeoff ... not sure if I'd want 50L of the same beer, that'd be all my kegs with the same flavour. At the moment I have two lagers an APA and an IPA. 

But I do understand those folks who have limited brewing time and want to make shitloads in one go.


----------



## spog (25/6/11)

goldy'the eyelet at the top of your lifting frame is it screw in or is it the type with thread and washer,if not for asafety sake i would use the threaded type.
dont want the eyelet pulling out during a lift........cheers.............spog.....


goldy said:


> Here's something I knocked up for my new shed


----------



## kymba (25/6/11)

sky beam here

i pissed off the ratchet strap coz i couldn't release it safely - i have since wrapped the strap around the beam a few times and use a carabiner as the lifting eye


----------



## Newbee(r) (25/6/11)

Same rig as bribie, only in the shed. I positioned the kettle close enough to the cleat so I can tie off the cord with one hand while elevating the bag. Just easier to handle.


----------



## mccuaigm (25/6/11)

spog said:


> goldy'the eyelet at the top of your lifting frame is it screw in or is it the type with thread and washer,if not for asafety sake i would use the threaded type.
> dont want the eyelet pulling out during a lift........cheers.............spog.....



Spog, its a screw in, it's about 8mm I think, used it to hoist a double batch today. That frame will bust before the eyelet tears out I reckon.


----------



## Deebo (25/6/11)

Ladder leaning on the wall with rope looped around a step.. seems to work for me.. tried once with pulley but prefer this.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (25/6/11)

Nick JD said:


> My batches are so small I can just lift the bag out. Each keg is a different batch though, which I find a good tradeoff ... not sure if I'd want 50L of the same beer, that'd be all my kegs with the same flavour. At the moment I have two lagers an APA and an IPA.
> 
> But I do understand those folks who have limited brewing time and want to make shitloads in one go.



+1 Nick. I would rather brew often and have variety than once a month and 50L of the same beer. I am currently brewing 3 out of 4 weekends and doing a corney at a time. Great for trying out new stuff. 1 BIAB of 4.5 kg of grain - no drama to lift and put in a bucket. Impressed by all the gadgets/hoists though .......
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Hinji (1/7/11)

Thought I would add my hoist for today. 
Pretty rough, but it done the job. Will get around to making something proper at some stage.
Cheers!


----------



## spog (1/7/11)

if ti does the job go with it,ahhhhh home brewing,nothing better.......cheers...........spog.......


Johnnyh_18 said:


> Thought I would add my hoist for today.
> Pretty rough, but it done the job. Will get around to making something proper at some stage.
> Cheers!
> 
> View attachment 46781


----------



## Bribie G (1/7/11)

Another tweak, I sit the urn on a wooden board on a tool trolley so when I'm doing a double batch with 2 urns, the trolley moves along but the hoist stays at the same location, I run the 2 batchs half an hour apart. Also handy for doing a side sparge in a nappy bucket, which I do occasionally with a very high gravity brew such as Midnight Train or a massive AIPA. Hoist bag and do the 'main' drain, move trolley along, lower bag into nappy bucket sitting next to urn, sparge, lift & drain while the urn comes to boil..................


----------



## spog (1/7/11)

ahhh "lateral thinking"......cheers.....spog..


Bribie G said:


> Another tweak, I sit the urn on a wooden board on a tool trolley so when I'm doing a double batch with 2 urns, the trolley moves along but the hoist stays at the same location, I run the 2 batchs half an hour apart. Also handy for doing a side sparge in a nappy bucket, which I do occasionally with a very high gravity brew such as Midnight Train or a massive AIPA. Hoist bag and do the 'main' drain, move trolley along, lower bag into nappy bucket sitting next to urn, sparge, lift & drain while the urn comes to boil..................
> 
> 
> View attachment 46800


----------



## mwd (1/7/11)

So how do you squeeze the bag or do you to get the liquid out ?. When I steep grains a whole load of liquid comes out when I tighten up the bag and press the sides and that is only about 300g of grain.


----------



## kyleg (13/8/11)

Hi guys, just wondering how much my bag will weigh after the mash is done, im brewing tomorrow with about a 14kg grain bill, set up a pulley system today, tested it with the dry grain and wasn't too bad but im worried that after the mash it will be way heavier and i will drop it and ruin everything..


----------



## argon (13/8/11)

Typically biab retains about .75L water/kg of grain. So you can add another 10.5kg to it for a total of 24.5kg.


----------



## Cocko (13/8/11)

Haven't BIAB'ed for a while but grain will absorb .7-1L per kg of grain...

So at a rough guess, a litre of water being 1kg, I am thinking 14 kg of wet grain would be about 25-28 kg.

First thought, others will know better.


EDIT: See argon above.


----------



## kyleg (13/8/11)

hmmm, guess ive got my fingers crossed!


----------



## leiothrix (14/8/11)

it will be a lot heavier than that though when you first pull it out. the bag itself will be full of wort, and it'll take a while to drain.

i use an electric winch to lift mine . . . and i'm only doing single batches.


----------



## Thirsty Boy (15/8/11)

leiothrix said:


> it will be a lot heavier than that though when you first pull it out. the bag itself will be full of wort, and it'll take a while to drain.
> 
> i use an electric winch to lift mine . . . and i'm only doing single batches.



It shouldn't be....

I am fairly easily able to pull the bag from a single batch BIAB (say 5kg of grain) with one hand and I do so at most of our BIAB demos to prove that things aren't as heavy as most people seem to assume they're going to be. We dont even have a pully at demos, just a hook hanging over the pot and lift the bag up to hang on it. I'm only 5'9" and no weightlifter.

I suspect i "could" pull the bag from a double batch by hand, although I would certainly need both hands and i question the safety of doing so. You'd certainly be better off with a pulley of some sort, but there should be no need for winches etc... Just a rope over a sturdy hook would get the job done in a pinch.

If your bag is retaining liquid to the extent that its _very_ heavy, then I suspect its made of less than optimal material or perhaps you are crushing your grain way to fine. I've had this happen once or twice, but only on brews where i used a massive proprtion or rye or raw wheat in the grist and the wort was very viscous and sticky.


----------



## QldKev (15/8/11)

I'm a pretty well build bloke, I woudn't want to be lifting a bag with 14kg of grain in it and trying to hold it until the main juice has run. I've done it with a 10kg batch and that was enough. A 10kg batch seems to weigh 4 times a 5kg batch when your standing there holding it. Also I don't think I would like to trust my bag with 14kg of grain, I think it would be the limit for it. For my big batch I use 2 bags side by side and put half the grain in each. Here is the thread on it Here

QldKev


----------



## leiothrix (15/8/11)

My bag is the standard polyester Swiss voile, though not really a bag as much as a 1.5m^2 sheet.

With 5kg grist will retain 2.5->3 L of water, but there would be at least double that initially.

Still easy to lift with one hand, but that would mean climbing onto the bench, and i don't want to stand there holding it for 30 minutes to drain.

I did have a single pulley and cleat before, but I'm lazy and the winch is much easier. Plus there's the bling factor


----------



## Thirsty Boy (16/8/11)

Fair enough, but you made it sound as though you "need" an electric winch for a single batch - and its obvious that you dont.

People also need to remember that while your spent grain holds perhaps 0.5-1L of water for every kg of grain you started with... You are leaving behind 70+ percent of that weight of grain in the tun as sugar.

For a 5kg grist, assuming you are sensible about how you pull the bag out, the peak weight of the bag is about 12kg.

Now while i definitely think people should organise themselves a hook or pulley of some sort as it makes life a lot easier, for single batches you simply do not need one. For double or bigger batches... Get a pulley, but it doesn't have to be a block and tackle, the bags simply are not all that heavy. Give yourself a 2:1 mechanical advantage and you will be able to hoist the bag with one hand without putting down your beer.


----------

