# Grain father v robobrew



## Keemju (4/6/17)

Look for peoples opinions on these two units.im looking at going ag i have decided to purchase on of these units just not sure which one at first glance both or 35lt and have pumps. However There is a masive price difference between the i quess my question is am i just paying for a brand name with the gf? 
Any constructive opinions would be appreciated


----------



## Adam Howard (4/6/17)

After considering a GF I bought a RoboBrew with pump a couple of weeks ago due to the sheer value. IMHO it's a better buy due to the 2400W total element wattage (stronger boil) and extra tap at the base for draining. 

It does come with some niggles however and something I worked out by doing a cleaning run prior to the first batch. The volume markings on the inside are super handy but are about 1L out. 24L measured at room temperature in a jug filled the unit to the 25L mark. The temp probe on mine is also about 5 degrees too high so you have to make an allowance for that when heating strike water and mashing, I double check with a glass thermometer while brewing which is fine.

I did my first batch on it on Friday, a SMaSH pale ale with some old Best Pilsen malt and Motueka hops. It performed flawlessly. Mashed in, started the recirc slowly at first and sped it up once I saw that there was a decent level of conversion already complete. Ran smoothly and after sparging I ended up bang on a calculated 75% efficiency. Super clear wort pre-boil.

New pump model features a handy false bottom that worked really well. Used BrewBrite at 10 mins and at the end of the boil I used the supplied immersion chiller while recirculating the wort through the pump. Ran off the wort slowly from the tap and was left with nearly all of the break material sitting on the false bottom with the hop bags. 

Given that the Robo is less than half the price of the GF I think it's a better buy. Even with the couple of quirks it is better value when you think about the sheer amount of ingredients and other equipment you can purchase with the price difference.


----------



## Adam Howard (4/6/17)

Recirc while chilling.




Clear wort sample from fermentor after pitching yeast.


----------



## Keemju (4/6/17)

Sounds like your happy thanks for your insight


----------



## dibbz (5/6/17)

> The temp probe on mine is also about 5 degrees too high so you have to make an allowance for that when heating strike water and mashing, I double check with a glass thermometer while brewing which is fine.

I'd return it and seek a replacement, mash temp is critical and this is the primary function of the device, which it fails to perform. I think when the romance of a new shiny mash tun wears off you wont he as happy as you are now with the defect.


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (5/6/17)

Adamski29 said:


> ..... The temp probe on mine is also about 5 degrees too high so you have to make an allowance for that when heating strike water and mashing,....


Is it, when mine has grain in it there is a temperature difference top to bottom, probably around 5 degrees, if you run some off you can check the temp, at the bottom. 

What temp does it show when its boiling?


----------



## Andy_27 (5/6/17)

I asked my LHBS who stocks all things Keg King and Grainfathers about a Robobrew. The response I got was "(lengthy pause...) I can get them in, but I'd rather you just bought it direct from Keg King. That way I dont have to deal with all the warranty returns." I was all set to buy one too until this unflattering review... now I have to save up over twice as much!!


----------



## mattyh77 (5/6/17)

So far happy with my Robobrew. No dramas, nice and easy, everything working. Only thing is measurement marking are out by a litre. I just measure everything going in anyway. It's the new pump model too.


----------



## Batz (5/6/17)

Just be careful of measurements using a jug, even one you believe to be accurate. Use some scales to check you jug, you may be surprised.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy (5/6/17)

I agree with Batz. I use plastic jugs to measure my polyurethane for work. A 1.5 litre jug at the full mark was actually holding 1.65 litres. Check your jug by weight with an accurate scale.


----------



## mattyh77 (5/6/17)

I did that first. My 5l plastic measuring jugs with 5l is 5kg on the scales. After zeroing to take the weight of the empty jug.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (6/6/17)

Andy_27 said:


> I asked my LHBS who stocks all things Keg King and Grainfathers about a Robobrew. The response I got was "(lengthy pause...) I can get them in, but I'd rather you just bought it direct from Keg King. That way I dont have to deal with all the warranty returns." I was all set to buy one too until this unflattering review... now I have to save up over twice as much!!


He wouldn't make a retailer's bottom if he didn't guide you to something more expensive than you could afford, almost using the Robobrew as a loss leader.
Just remember they both have a 1 year warranty, if he is marking them both up at the 100% (minimum) then he will make more money from the sale of the Grainfather.


----------



## Keemju (6/6/17)

Has anyone attempted to return a robobrew to keg king r they easy to deal with


----------



## pcmfisher (6/6/17)

Keemju said:


> Has anyone attempted to return a robobrew to keg king r they easy to deal with


Keg King are usually really good with their warranties. Don't know about Robobrews but warranties for their kegerators are done by arranging a pick up from your house regardless of where you bought it.




wide eyed and legless said:


> He wouldn't make a retailer's bottom if he didn't guide you to something more expensive than you could afford, almost using the Robobrew as a loss leader.
> Just remember they both have a 1 year warranty,* if he is marking them both up at the 100% (minimum)* then he will make more money from the sale of the Grainfather.


You say something or just fart?


----------



## Lionman (6/6/17)

I doubt there is 100% margin in selling breweries.

Wholesale GF for $600? 
Wholesale Robobrew for $250?

I bet the retailers wish that was the case.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (9/6/17)

I love the naivety of the average punter, the Guten / Ace / Klarstein which are from the same stable as the Grainfather and Robobrew with better fittings, polished finish, larger capacity same 1 year warranty and a stepped mash feature could be landed taxes,shipping and agents paid for, for around $275 AUD and not that much more for the 50 litre version.
That is for a 20 foot container, cheaper again with a 40 footer. Without any doubt 100% mark up.


----------



## paulyman (9/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> same 1 year warranty.



Under Australian consumer law I have greater protections than that one year warranty, that goes for both the GF and the Robobrew. Given the Guten is imported by you can you be sure of the same protections?


----------



## pcmfisher (9/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I love the naivety of the average punter, the Guten / Ace / Klarstein which are from the same stable as the Grainfather and Robobrew with better fittings, polished finish, larger capacity same 1 year warranty and a stepped mash feature could be landed taxes,shipping and agents paid for, for around $275 AUD and not that much more for the 50 litre version.
> That is for a 20 foot container, cheaper again with a 40 footer. Without any doubt 100% mark up.



So it wasn't a fart. Didn't think so.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (9/6/17)

paulyman said:


> Under Australian consumer law I have greater protections than that one year warranty, that goes for both the GF and the Robobrew. Given the Guten is imported by you can you be sure of the same protections?


Alibaba is not the same site it was some years ago, if the company you are buying from fails to honour the 1 year warranty they could get into strife with Alibaba. The other thing is under warranty, it is up to the purchaser to return the damaged goods under Australian law now I do know Keg King are extremely good but I am sure you wouldn't be expected to return any damaged goods to China.


----------



## Andy_27 (9/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> He wouldn't make a retailer's bottom if he didn't guide you to something more expensive than you could afford, almost using the Robobrew as a loss leader.
> Just remember they both have a 1 year warranty, if he is marking them both up at the 100% (minimum) then he will make more money from the sale of the Grainfather.



Yeah I get your point and I admit I always get a bit sceptical when a retailer bags out a company or product... I changed my mind anyway and am going with a Cheeky Peak 3 Vessel for about the same price as the GF. SO in any case, Mr LHBS didnt make a sale...


----------



## Keemju (9/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I love the naivety of the average punter, the Guten / Ace / Klarstein which are from the same stable as the Grainfather and Robobrew with better fittings, polished finish, larger capacity same 1 year warranty and a stepped mash feature could be landed taxes,shipping and agents paid for, for around $275 AUD and not that much more for the 50 litre version.
> That is for a 20 foot container, cheaper again with a 40 footer. Without any doubt 100% mark up.


Shame you can't get one in Australia unless you order 50


----------



## wide eyed and legless (9/6/17)

You can, nosco only just got his. Unless an importer was going to sell direct through eBay and the like, its not worth bringing them in when you can get them direct.


----------



## Keemju (9/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You can, nosco only just got his. Unless an importer was going to sell direct through eBay and the like, its not worth bringing them in when you can get them direct.


They look realy good do you know which site sells the unit i looked at abilbaba they only sell in 50 lots


----------



## goatchop41 (9/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You can, nosco only just got his. Unless an importer was going to sell direct through eBay and the like, its not worth bringing them in when you can get them direct.





Keemju said:


> They look realy good do you know which site sells the unit i looked at abilbaba they only sell in 50 lots



I'd love to know too, I've had a good look and can't find one that sells <50 units 
Maybe just message/email one of the vendors? Might have to PM nosco too to find out which he got his from


----------



## wide eyed and legless (9/6/17)

Write to Sandy, they do samples of 1.
https://gutenequipment.en.alibaba.c...er_mash_tun.html?spm=a2700.8304367.0.0.YmZDLV


----------



## MartinOC (9/6/17)

Getting a bit more on-track....

Without trawling-through multiple Grainfather threads, how do these units handle adjuncts?


----------



## Coldspace (10/6/17)

MartinOC said:


> Getting a bit more on-track....
> 
> Without trawling-through multiple Grainfather threads, how do these units handle adjuncts?



Good, I've done multiple brews in my G/father's using adjuncts..

My rice lagers have all turned out great, the unit handled 6 kgs of grain plus 2 kgs of white rice pre cooked and dumped into mash, mash in 1 kg of grain and 500 grms of gelantised rice at a time to get even spread throughout the mash, my fluted mill is a perfect mill for the grainfather as it keeps lots of husks intact and therefore a perfect mash profile and sparge with or without adjuncts , I've tried multiple mills but these are the best for what I do, a finer crush using a heavy rice adjunct then a single batch mash run in this unit would be alot easier.. Turned out 2 x 15 ltr cubes which were watered down by 5 ltrs each gave me 2 cornies at about 4.5% each, as I didn't want too high ABV as it was summer .Double high grav grain father brew method .
Only small issue was the sparging took about 20 mins longer due to the rice, but no biggy...
But this was due to me maxing out the unit to get 2 cornies in one brew up lol.
If I went with say a single batch then the sparge would be shitload faster. But time saved to get 2 kegs was worth it.

Done a few oatmeal style stouts, all worked great, I used heaps of oats in one batch and no issues.
Only single batch these as I wanted a higher grav single batch stouts anyway.

Cheers


----------



## MartinOC (10/6/17)

Thanks for that. Any issues with wheat & rye (ie. rice hulls definitely required)?

Reason I'm asking is that I just bought a Robobrew (pump model) for use whilst I'm at work & need to know what I can get away-with.


----------



## Coldspace (10/6/17)

MartinOC said:


> Thanks for that. Any issues with wheat & rye (ie. rice hulls definitely required)?
> 
> Reason I'm asking is that I just bought a Robobrew (pump model) for use whilst I'm at work & need to know what I can get away-with.


I've done heaps of 150 lashes type ales, using upto 35% wheat, doing double batch, only issue was the wheat would sometimes coat the element base, causing the ramp up to boil to take awhile, easy fix was after mash out while the ramp up continues, I just use my long stainless mash paddle to scrap abit off the bottom been carefull as to not nock the pump filter off. This made the ramp up and less scorching better. This was only evident when going all out and doing a high grav mash using upto 3 kgs of wheat and 6 kgs of other grains.
Was no issue when say using 2.5 kgs of pilsener and 1.5 kgs of wheat for single batch.
Sparging was good for normal batch size, just about 10 mins slower when going all out and craming upto 9 kgs of grain into the unit. But then it had 9 kgs of grain to drain through.
My twin fluted mill has solved all my sparging issues when going 9 kgs of grain and my effiencey is up to 75 to 80% now for the big grav mashes.
Just going over my notes, and I'm only dropping less than 5% effiencey when doing say 4.5 kg mash single run to a 9 kg high grav mash, so alittle loss but for the time worth it for a standard type ale or lager it's fine with me.

Rice hulls would only be needed if trying to do say double batch with loads of grain , I don't need them as the fluted mill makes my grist perfect for my brew techniques anyway.
No rice hulls if just staying in the design parameters of these units as long as your crush is not like flour or too fine, you'll be ok.
I've bought many of crush from various brewshops around Brisbane , all have been ok for using upto 6 kgs of grain per mash, but suffer abit when pushing boundaries like 9 kgs, the fluted mill solved all these issues.

I only double batch when doing standard guzzling type pale ales and lagers all under 5.2% which seem to be the guzzlers around here.

For more specialty brews, or a nice fancy IPA or stout I just do single runs due to the higher grav required in the end product., and the sheer amount of hops required in the boil.

The rye, works good. I've only done a few rye beers and it was no issues. I milled the rye seperate to other grains due to the finer size required.
All rye beers have turned out great, I've only done single batch rye brews as I have not needed the volume of these brews to try a high grav mash. But will try it some time.

Cheers


----------



## MartinOC (10/6/17)

Thanks mate. All good info. I also just found your double, high gravity method & will definitely give it a go (I'm kinda time-poor these days).

Cheers!


----------



## dibbz (13/6/17)

re: mash temps.


----------



## Coodgee (13/6/17)

Coldspace said:


> I've done heaps of 150 lashes type ales, using upto 35% wheat, doing double batch, only issue was the wheat would sometimes coat the element base, causing the ramp up to boil to take awhile, easy fix was after mash out while the ramp up continues, I just use my long stainless mash paddle to scrap abit off the bottom been carefull as to not nock the pump filter off. This made the ramp up and less scorching better. This was only evident when going all out and doing a high grav mash using upto 3 kgs of wheat and 6 kgs of other grains.
> Was no issue when say using 2.5 kgs of pilsener and 1.5 kgs of wheat for single batch.
> Sparging was good for normal batch size, just about 10 mins slower when going all out and craming upto 9 kgs of grain into the unit. But then it had 9 kgs of grain to drain through.
> My twin fluted mill has solved all my sparging issues when going 9 kgs of grain and my effiencey is up to 75 to 80% now for the big grav mashes.
> ...



I used rice hulls a few times but they are such dirty, shitty things that I don't like the idea of using them in a delicate wheat beer etc. I found that a 20 minute beta-glucanase rest at 40 degrees which will also provide a quick protein rest while ramping up to the sac rest is enough for a nice easy sparge on a 5kg wit grain bill of 50% wheat and 10% oats.


----------



## Jonez121289 (15/1/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Write to Sandy, they do samples of 1.
> https://gutenequipment.en.alibaba.c...er_mash_tun.html?spm=a2700.8304367.0.0.YmZDLV


Did anyone actually tried to order a sample? I am about to get a Robobrew with pump, however I would prefer to get a 50L model which they do not plan to offer (messaged them on FB recently)


----------



## DU99 (15/1/18)

you will require a 15 amp supply...


----------



## wide eyed and legless (16/1/18)

Jonez121289 said:


> Did anyone actually tried to order a sample? I am about to get a Robobrew with pump, however I would prefer to get a 50L model which they do not plan to offer (messaged them on FB recently)


A few people have got the 50 litre, you will have to check out the Guten thread, upgraded now to 8 step mash schedule and a recipe database memory, if my memory serves me correct.


----------



## Jonez121289 (2/2/18)

Thanks, can't upgrade to a 15 amp supply unfortunately. Should I simply settle for anything around 30L as more is simply not feasible with the 10amp supply?


----------



## wide eyed and legless (3/2/18)

I could hold off for now, see what Keg King do, they were well impressed with the Brew Monk or get it slightly cheaper ordering direct. But as soon as Keg King order there will be no more buying direct from China once they have a supplier here.


----------

