# San Diego Super Yeast Wlp090



## Bribie G (8/11/11)

Bought my first vial, at the Bris HB conference, and going to run up an American Wheat this afternoon - really liked the Murrays Whale Ale when I was down that way:

*Moby Wheat*
21L batch to around 4.9% ABV

2500 BB Pils
2000 Wheat Malt
Chinook 60 mins to around 20 IBU

WLP090

Anyone used this yeast yet? Guy at the conference said it can do a super clean brew in about 3 days then give it a couple for D rest etc. Can't wait to try this one. 
I've never made a wheat, after it settles out should I cold condition it for a week or just keg as is? I take it that it will have a residual haze anyway?


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## Mayor of Mildura (8/11/11)

I've made a few american wheats with 1272. Pretty well what you are suggesting here. They are hazy and easy drinking. Just don't do what I did with one and put a couple of kg's of nectarines in. :icon_vomit:


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## jbowers (8/11/11)

Any idea if this yeast is likely to be available in Melbourne?


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## Zizzle (8/11/11)

> Is this strain from one of your San Diego clients?
> 
> No. We included the name San Diego in the title to honor the hometown of White Labs.



Ah crap, I was imaging this strain was some love child from strains from Green Flash & Stone IPAs.

But in reality, they probably just use WLP001 anyway.


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## Bribie G (9/11/11)

I think it's derived from WLP001, guy said it was bred at Whitelabs and is not a brewery strain. 
I didn't get round to it yesterday, mashing it now. 

I was going to use Chinook but we all got some Stella and Topaz hops at the conference, both sound like they might add a nice touch to an American Wheat, tossing up which one to use.


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## Mayor of Mildura (9/11/11)

Wow those are some pretty impressive AA levels. Why not use both. Last one I made I used riwaka. Turned out great.


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## Bribie G (10/11/11)

This stuff is insane
Going on the advice of the Whitelabs guy at the QLD conference I did a starter with strictly 1040 wort and pitched the vial at 2pm. A few minutes ago there was a huge "bang" from the brewery and the yeast had hurled the top of my starter pail across the room like a frisbee, with krausen forming already.





This is the growth stage, not supposed to do that <_< 

I'm getting the starter and cube down to a common 18 then pitch.

Hanging onto my hat


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## DUANNE (10/11/11)

this yeast at normal brew temps is done after 48 hours max 72.and actually floscs out unlike 1056.it is also very clean.makes notto look slow.


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## mccuaigm (10/11/11)

Interesting, sounds like a good one. Might give it a try meself


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## mccuaigm (10/11/11)

Interesting, sounds like a good one. Might give it a try meself


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## DJR (25/11/11)

Got a vial from Dave's home brew - not sure when I will use it. In the next week or two. Might become a staple if the 3 days is true and it floccs OK - US05 i find I have to leave for 2-3 weeks before it's settled out properly

Planning a simple lawnmower/summer beer - 95% pils, 5% wheat, Amarillo to 25 IBU, then will use some slurry for the house pale ale - Amarillo and NS, 75% pils 20% munich 5% crystal/caramalt


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## mahonya1 (26/11/11)

Bribie G said:


> I think it's derived from WLP001, guy said it was bred at Whitelabs and is not a brewery strain.
> I didn't get round to it yesterday, mashing it now.
> 
> I was going to use Chinook but we all got some Stella and Topaz hops at the conference, both sound like they might add a nice touch to an American Wheat, tossing up which one to use.




Which way did you go with the hop choice, and how's it tasting? I did an APA with Stella late addition, still in the fermenter but tasting pretty good.


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## Bribie G (26/11/11)

I got sidetracked with a back op and couldn't do any heavy lifting, and it's been sitting at -1 for about a week still in primary but the fridge cranked right down. I'll keg straight out of primary. Actually there was krausen hanging around for about 7 days but being a wheat beer (which I've never done before) that's no real indication. I'll try a bog standard APA next, which I already have sitting in a cube, and simultaneously my Viennale so I'll have a better understanding with these two brews.


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## np1962 (26/11/11)

Bribie G said:


> This stuff is insane
> Going on the advice of the Whitelabs guy at the QLD conference I did a starter with strictly 1040 wort and pitched the vial at 2pm. A few minutes ago there was a huge "bang" from the brewery and the yeast had hurled the top of my starter pail across the room like a frisbee, with krausen forming already.
> 
> View attachment 49979
> ...


Growth Phase?
If you pitched a whole fresh vial into a couple of litres of wort there isn't going to be a need for a growth phase. She's gone straight on to fermenting.
I'm assuming these vials flew over for the conference so were less than a week old and would be suitable for pitching direct to 23L batch.
From all reports this is a very clean, quick fermenting yeast.
Nige


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## tallie (6/12/11)

After the talk about this yeast at the QHC recently, I am so far a little underwhelmed by its performance, and it sounds like I'm not the only one. Flocculation seems to be good, but so far, the advertised speed of ferment hasn't aligned with my experience.

In the first batch I used it, I let the yeast gradually rise to room temperature before activating the yeast in 1L starter wort. It was then pitched into 23L of 1.052 wort at the same temperature (18C). It took over 24 hours before any krausen formed, and it stayed at fairly high krausen for 5 days. I took a gravity reading after 4 days and it had only dropped to 1.032. I let the fermenter slowly rise to 20C over a day and I took another reading 3 days later, by which time it had got down to 1.013.

I thought maybe it would do better on its second generation and harvested 2x500ml quantities of thin slurry that were pitched directly into two new 23L batches of beer at 1.047 & 1.052 OG. It took less than 12 hours this time for the krausen to appear, however, both beers had only dropped to ~1.025 after three days. Better than the first batch, but still nowhere near what I had been lead to believe. Both had dropped to 1.010 after 7 days (it may have got there quicker, but that was the first opportunity I had to take another reading).

Out of those who have actually used this yeast, what have your experiences been? What temperature are you fermenting at and how quickly is the yeast working?

*Edit:*


BEERHOG said:


> this yeast at normal brew temps is done after 48 hours max 72.and actually floscs out unlike 1056.it is also very clean.makes notto look slow.



I missed this comment earlier, and nearly made a comment about how I've found Nottingham to be much faster! What do you consider to be "normal brew temps"? And what was the OG of your wort(s)? Maybe I just had a dodgy vial, although it was well within the best before date (19th Feb, 2012 - first gen pitched on 21st November) and the second generation still didn't perform as advertised.

Cheers,
tallie


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## Bribie G (6/12/11)

It's definitely a quicker yeast than US-05 or Wy1056 - probably about the same speed as Yeast Irish Ale - I like the fact that it flocs and drops nicely, as opposed to US-05 that hangs around with a scummy krausen for days and days. 
Current batch (2 fermenters of different recipe done on some slurry from #1) took 5 days to finish in primary, then I popped them in the cold fridge on Sunday and I'll keg them tomorrow. 

Definitely not the 3 day wonder as advertised... however it does remind me very much of that Pacman yeast that was out a couple of years ago. 

I'll keep using this in place of US-05 / 1056 for the time being anyway. I'll be putting up a pic of #1 which is a half and half wheat beer, shortly. Dropped and cleared very nicely and only 4 days in the keg.


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## Bribie G (6/12/11)

Well #1 was in primary for a week, cc for a week and kegged for a week but only on gas for the last 4 days. Turned out great. 


Piccy (Whale ale lookalike)


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## Paul H (6/12/11)

Geez Michael I'm thirsty just looking at it  

Cheers

Paul


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## DJR (2/1/12)

Pitched mine on NYE, at about 5pm, into a simple 1.045 OG APA. Took about 24 h to show a thick fluffy krausen, airlock started about 4-6 h in.

It's down at about 1.030 now, and has dropped 4 gravity points in the last 8 hours. Don't know if it'll hit the 3 day mark, but not bad. 

Flavour so far is good - much like US05 but a little different.


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## Liam_snorkel (2/2/12)

Got some of this a few weeks ago. 
First brew was an ale, cleaned up after itself and kegged in 6 days.

Pitched 1/2 a cup of slurry I'd saved (no starter) into a 1.068 stout on sat night, checked it just before and it's hit 1.018. not bad for 4.5 days.
mind you I cooked it at around 20-22deg, similarly with the ale.


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## ekul (19/6/12)

Anyone still using this yeast? I've been using this yeast since the conference in beers that would normally get US05. I find it ferments quickly and drops failrly well. I like it better than US05 and 1272. I actually find it to be a pretty hardy yeast, i'v been repitching since the conference pretty much back to back (with two breaks in between) and i really haven't noticed it change that much. The last batch I did was a little 'tangy' but i'm not sure if it was the higher ferment temp. If i lost this yeast for some reason i would definitely buy it again.

Anyone else?


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## warra48 (19/6/12)

I'm about to bottle a batch an American Amber Ale which used this yeast.
I pitched a jar of slurry from a batch of AIPA brewed before this.
My yeast was grown from a bottle of slurry donated by BribieG.

I totally agree it ferments faster than I can blink. First time I used it it seemed to be all over Red Rover in 48 hours. It drops nicely.
Although it's early days, I think the yeast gives a little subtle fruitiness to the aroma, unlike US05 etc.

I would use it again.


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## OneEye (19/6/12)

Where can I find a vial of this yeast? Any of the sponsors?


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## ekul (19/6/12)

moosebeer said:


> Where can I find a vial of this yeast? Any of the sponsors?


I know brew adelaide (Nige62) has whitelabs vials


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## stakka82 (20/6/12)

^^^ checked his site today, he had new stock less than a month ago, and now he's all out! how often does he reorder, generally?


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## np1962 (20/6/12)

stakka82 said:


> ^^^ checked his site today, he had new stock less than a month ago, and now he's all out! how often does he reorder, generally?


Hi,
The 090 was pretty popular this time around. 
Will have fresh stock coming in second week of July.
Cheers
Nige


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## ekul (28/3/14)

used a freshly filled stubbie of this from the first generation and its not kicking. I remember talk that it was a slow starter. Its been 24hours and it doesn't seem to be doing anything at all. Added another stubbie worth of yeast, if nothing has happened tomorrow morn its getting some us05. Weird that its doing this because i remember it kicking off slowly but not this slowly.


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## Yob (28/3/14)

How old was the slurry? No starter eh?


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## ekul (29/3/14)

yeast was about a week old at most. Hadn't even carbonated the bottle.

edit- actually it was about 2.5 weeks old because i used a bottled to ferment another batch (which worked fine). So weird. Hopefully its fermenting tomorrow.


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## Spiesy (29/3/14)

I haven't used this particular yeast, dying to do so, but all our customers have reported that it is a BEAST of a yeast. Some guys have reported fermentation over in 3-4 days. 

The specs on it are phenomenal. Hardcore attenuation AND floc, high alcohol tolerance and reasonable temp range.


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## Spiesy (29/3/14)

So with what I have heard, you should be roaring along. 

Have you had much experience reusing slurry before?

Was the yeast rinsed? Did you make a starter? Did you oxygenate? All grain brew? Volume of wort and OG? Temp of yeast and wort?


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## ekul (29/3/14)

I've reused slurry a million times, in 4 years i've probably only bought maybe 10 packets of yeast and made a brew every two weeks. Its weird that it didn't go as this slurry was super fresh as well.

The only thing different about this brew is that it had clarity ferm in it. NOt sure if that would make a difference.

I'm also very familiar with this yeast (used to be my house yeast) and i remember that sometimes it would take awhile to kick off from a bottle of slurry. Too long without any action, i pitched some us05 thismorning.

Wlp090 is a fantastic yeast though. Its very similar to US05, it settles out a lot better and is more neutral to my palate.


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## QldKev (29/3/14)

When I've used it (the stuff you gave me) it's always taken at least 24hours to fire up. Once it gets going it ferments out in a couple of days.


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## ekul (29/3/14)

I couldn't wait anymore kev, the beer on tap at the moment is pretty subpar so i can't afford to tip a batch, need some beer in there asap.


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## ekul (29/3/14)

The US05 hasn't done anything at all either?? I have a cube from the same batch sitting right next to it that got aussieale yeast (wlp009) and it is cranking. The only differences between these two batches is the one not fermenting got clarityferm... Is this a side effect? Really hope this batch isn't fucked, i wanted to bottle some up for a gluten intolerant mate.


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## QldKev (29/3/14)

ekul said:


> The US05 hasn't done anything at all either?? I have a cube from the same batch sitting right next to it that got aussieale yeast (wlp009) and it is cranking. The only differences between these two batches is the one not fermenting got clarityferm... Is this a side effect? Really hope this batch isn't fucked, i wanted to bottle some up for a gluten intolerant mate.


Silly question, have you checked the gravity to see if it's dropping. I'm wondering if that shit has oil in it and it has prevented the krauzen layer forming?


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## ekul (29/3/14)

I have not done this actually, i dont think i even have one anymore. Will check with my refractometer. Wont give me an accurate reading but if its not 1044 then something has happened in there.

Its 1042, which leads me to believe nothing has happened. It was really windy when i made it so didn't get a proper boil, probably where the 2 points went. I did take a reading before cubing it but i thought because the wort was hot it would rise up to meet the 1044 mark. Hopefully this uso5 kicks off, not sure how i feel about adding even more yeast if it doesn't.


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## Spiesy (30/3/14)

Clarity Ferm should not prevent your beer from fermenting. 

Re. No temp calibration when reading your OG.

Don't know of you no chill at all. But 1042 at 80 degrees is 1068. At 30 degrees it is 1045. 

Could this be a factor?

What's the gravity of the 009 now?
Are they both in the same fermentation chamber, assuming they are in one?


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## ekul (30/3/14)

Thanks for the suggestions Spiesy. I only use a drop on the refractometer so it cools fairly quickly, plus if i had 1068 i would have had some crazy efficiency on my rig  Some kind of yeast has started to work this morning, doesn't look my normal krausen though, its really clean. Maybe the clarity ferm has already started to work.

Meanwhile the 009 one sitting next to it has nearly finished!! A couple more days and ill chuck her in the keg.


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## Dips Me Lid (24/11/14)

Just kegged my first batch brewed with this yeast on the weekend and it's tasting great. I brewed a fairly straight forward Amarillo/Centennial APA with an OG of 1.043, 12 L batch size, I made a 1 L starter with a one month old vial and pitched it after 24 hours on the stir plate.

The ferment took off within a couple of hours at 19c and just about blew the lid off, it was down to terminal gravity (1.010) in 4 and half days and had produced minimal vdk's, I ran a diacetyl test on the 7th day and it tasted super clean so I cold crashed for 3 days at 1c, flocculation was good, beer transferred nice and bright, I didn't use any finings so a couple of weeks cold conditioned should see it drop totally clear.

I harvested the yeast, washed and re-pitched into an IPA I brewed yesterday arvo, the fermenter was rocking about five hours after pitching.

So far the taste it has produced seems great, crystal clear hop flavours with the malt still coming through, I'm liking it's performance so far, looking forward to seeing how it goes with a higher OG.


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## Spiesy (24/11/14)

It's an amazing yeast, and well deserved of the name "super yeast". My yeast of choice for a hop-forward American Pale or IPA. 

Currently got an Aussie Ale that's just hitting its strap after a week of crash chilling, great clarity and only a couple of pints in.


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## Cocko (24/11/14)

I like it because it does all it can do but mainly because when pitching it you can say "Its Sooooppppeeerrrr Yeeeaaaaast"


Knome sayin.


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## Dips Me Lid (25/11/14)

Haha, gotta love giving the yeast a g-up when you pitch them.


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## Truman42 (25/11/14)

I used this yeast in a Janets brown ale clone. It was only a month old and I made a 2 litre starter 24 hrs before pitching. It took almost 48 hrs to fire up and took a good 5 days to ferment just chugging along slowly but surely. So not sure whats so super about it.


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## Spiesy (25/11/14)

Truman said:


> I used this yeast in a Janets brown ale clone. It was only a month old and I made a 2 litre starter 24 hrs before pitching. It took almost 48 hrs to fire up and took a good 5 days to ferment just chugging along slowly but surely. So not sure whats so super about it.


Your findings do seem at odds with everyone else I've spoken to and every experience I've had with this yeast - and I've used it maybe 10 times.
Maybe worth another try, mate.

Was your yeast fresh? Any idea how many live cells you would have pitched? What was your wort volume? Ferment temp?


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## Bribie G (25/11/14)

That's something that's always puzzled me about Whitelabs - I almost always use Wyeast and once the pack has swelled I do a fairly brief starter with say 500ml of wort, just to get the thing kicked off for 24 hours, then pitch it.

In the case of WLP, there's no "swelling / proving" phase so is there some sort of formula for starters based on their date of manufacture?


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## 2much2spend (25/11/14)

Brewers friend recommends to do a starter on almost any yeast unless it's really fresh, I use the calc on this site and it's never failed me since. Apparently it is supported by Chris white.
Wlp090 is really good I've used it a lot and with the correct starter it pulls down to the same gravity on every brew. 

PS. I did do starters with wyeasts too! But I think the shops or suppliers in AU just seem to keep getting old smack packs.


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## Spiesy (25/11/14)

Bribie G said:


> That's something that's always puzzled me about Whitelabs - I almost always use Wyeast and once the pack has swelled I do a fairly brief starter with say 500ml of wort, just to get the thing kicked off for 24 hours, then pitch it.
> 
> In the case of WLP, there's no "swelling / proving" phase so is there some sort of formula for starters based on their date of manufacture?


When using online yeast viability calculators, I haven't seen one that specifies White Labs or Wyeast. 
Which is kind of odd, seeing as though they both have different best before periods (until PurePitch becomes available).

This is one of my favourite calculators


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## Spiesy (25/11/14)

2much2spend said:


> But I think the shops or suppliers in AU just seem to keep getting old smack packs.


Doubt it.

Shipments take 4-days to arrive from Wyeast or White Labs, door to door.

We have personally taken receipt of yeast that was only manufactured the week before. I'd imagine the same would apply to other retailers.


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## Truman42 (25/11/14)

Spiesy said:


> Your findings do seem at odds with everyone else I've spoken to and every experience I've had with this yeast - and I've used it maybe 10 times.
> Maybe worth another try, mate.
> 
> Was your yeast fresh? Any idea how many live cells you would have pitched? What was your wort volume? Ferment temp?


Wort volume was 19 litres ferment temp was 19C and the yeast was packaged less than a month. Cant remember viable cells but I put it all in yeast calc and a 2 litre starter was more than enough cells.


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## Spiesy (25/11/14)

Truman said:


> Wort volume was 19 litres ferment temp was 19C and the yeast was packaged less than a month. Cant remember viable cells but I put it all in yeast calc and a 2 litre starter was more than enough cells.


Weird. That should have smashed out a solid ferment for you.


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## Yob (25/11/14)

I've used it a few times, not had a bad experience but I'd have to say on par with others I've used, neither worse nor better, it's clean, drops nicely and let's hops come through without stripping the malt base..

But so do other ale yeasts like 1272, 1217, Greenbelt, 099, etc, 

While I do like the yeast, I camt say it's stand out, but it's good to have it banked


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## 2much2spend (25/11/14)

Spiesy said:


> Doubt it.
> 
> Shipments take 4-days to arrive from Wyeast or White Labs, door to door.
> 
> We have personally taken receipt of yeast that was only manufactured the week before. I'd imagine the same would apply to other retailers.


It's funny that you can still go into big HBS and they are selling puffed smack packs along side the others.
Some newer shops I've purchased from are really good with yeast storage!
That makes me happy


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## Bribie G (15/12/14)

Truman said:


> I used this yeast in a Janets brown ale clone. It was only a month old and I made a 2 litre starter 24 hrs before pitching. It took almost 48 hrs to fire up and took a good 5 days to ferment just chugging along slowly but surely. So not sure whats so super about it.


I brewed up an emergency American Wheat last week to bottle off and take to QLD. I started the San Diego a couple of days in advance and it bred up nicely in the starter bottle. I'd counted on the yeast going ballistic and being able to bottle yesterday.

This morning, after 6 days of fairly sluggish activity and a lot of swirling and rousing of the FV (at 19 degrees) it's only down to 1020 from the original 1053.
Later today I'll be repitching with a couple of left over packs of Coopers Kit, (ed: and raise to 24 degrees) just to get it to attenuate. I'd say the flavours are pretty well locked in so no harm I hope.

Very disappointed, might have to go to Dans on the way North for my supplies.

San Diego Sluggard Yeast.


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## Mardoo (15/12/14)

Weird. I did a Janet's Brown up around 9% and SDSY smashed it in three and a half days.


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## 2much2spend (15/12/14)

Mardoo said:


> Weird. I did a Janet's Brown up around 9% and SDSY smashed it in three and a half days.


it has been an impressive workhourse for me too!


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## Spiesy (15/12/14)

I've never had an issue with it.


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## Cocko (15/12/14)

Cocko said:


> when pitching it you can say "Its Sooooppppeeerrrr Yeeeaaaaast"


^
Hello?


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## Fents (16/12/14)

Cocko said:


> ^
> Hello?


^
Is it me you're looking for?


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## Bribie G (16/12/14)

The Coopers kit yeast did the trick, finally have a reasonable krausen but too late for Xmas, I'll just put it in CC for ten days when it's dropped and head for Dans at Coffs on the way up to QLD.

Wyeast from now on, never had any problems with the green pack.


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## Spiesy (16/12/14)

Clearly it's WL's fault.


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## Bribie G (16/12/14)

Yes, I've often wondered about the "lack" of the widget. They are going to move to sachets I understand, I wonder if they will incorporate a widget as it is a sure sign of whether the yeast is viable.


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## Spiesy (16/12/14)

Bribie G said:


> Yes, I've often wondered about the "lack" of the widget. They are going to move to sachets I understand, I wonder if they will incorporate a widget as it is a sure sign of whether the yeast is viable.


There's no widget, it's just a pack of nutrients, isn't it?

White Labs should be available in PurePitch form early next year - we're pretty excited about it.


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## Jkpentreath (16/12/14)

Bribie G said:


> I think it's derived from WLP001, guy said it was bred at Whitelabs and is not a brewery strain. I didn't get round to it yesterday, mashing it now. I was going to use Chinook but we all got some Stella and Topaz hops at the conference, both sound like they might add a nice touch to an American Wheat, tossing up which one to use.


I always get apricots from topaz even if just the 60 min addition . Just kegged an American wheat with all centennial to 22 and wlp011. It's definetly a ladies beer.


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## Bribie G (19/12/14)

All is not lost. After boosting the brew with some Coopers in the good old gold pack it finished nicely. Bottled in 1.25L goonies and it should be good for Xmas after all. It was touch and go, and I was worried about bottle bombs so filled a bottle without priming, to act as a reference bottle, and it's still quite slack. The beer tastes great, one of the best American Wheats I've ever done.

Well, then I was left with a nice slurry that seemed too good to get rid of. So I've pitched that into a double batch of an AIPA that will chug away till the New Year when I get back. Already going ballistic ... this will be very interesting to see how my hybrid chimera monster turns out, might christen it "Bribie's Favourite", along the lines of "Denny's Favorite" etc.


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## mofox1 (19/12/14)

Bribie G said:


> I was worried about bottle bombs so filled a bottle without priming, to act as a reference bottle.


Good idea, that. I know that I don't always have the luxury of proper planning, so this might be more useful than it ought to be.


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## mckenry (6/3/15)

Just tasted my starter. Has a tart orange / grapefruit taste. Anyone had this before (maybe in any yeast starter)?
Its not something I have encountered before. Not sure I should pitch it?
Ideas?


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## mofox1 (6/3/15)

I've had starters that have tasted bready, "tart" (but not sour, per se), and both at the same time... all have made (infection free) beer.

I've got a Super San spinning now, I'll try to remember to taste it and report back in a day or two when I pitch it.


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## Bribie G (6/3/15)

I'm using San Diego Super Yeast again, in a Hop Thief clone. Fired up nicely this time, I've got it on 19 degrees so let's see how it shapes up this time round.


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## Spiesy (6/3/15)

Fermenting with a couple of vials tonight!


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## mckenry (6/3/15)

Bribie G said:


> I'm using San Diego Super Yeast again, in a Hop Thief clone. Fired up nicely this time, I've got it on 19 degrees so let's see how it shapes up this time round.





Spiesy said:


> Fermenting with a couple of vials tonight!


So how did the starters taste? Spiesy - maybe you arent making one?
Bribie G?


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## Spiesy (6/3/15)

Correct. I won't be making one.


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## Bribie G (6/3/15)

I didn't taste the starter but it smelt nice and clean as I tipped it in.


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## Bribie G (11/3/15)

Done and kegged in six days, and almost bright.
Tastes clean and fragrant out of the Stainless Brewbucket, San Diego has stepped up to the plate this time, as the Yanks would say.

:beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:


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## mofox1 (12/3/15)

mofox1 said:


> I've had starters that have tasted bready, "tart" (but not sour, per se), and both at the same time... all have made (infection free) beer.
> 
> I've got a Super San spinning now, I'll try to remember to taste it and report back in a day or two when I pitch it.


Well, it took a few days to kick off, and then there were car accidents, and so the starter just got left.

Anyway - chilled and decanted to bump it again, and starter tastes fairly good... definitely not sour. Seems like it would be a goer for an american wheat, lots of cantelope type flavours. Slightly cloying.

Promise to take better care of it this time around!


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