# Master Brew Kentish Ale Clone



## spaced (13/5/15)

Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can assist. Got a friend who asked me to try and clone a beer for him. Looks like a terrible beer but people like what they like.

This is the beer I'm trying to clone:

http://www.shepherdneame.co.uk/brands/ales/master-brew-kentish-ale

From the video on the page it looks like 3.7% ABV, EKG hops. 

Looking at doing it all grain.

Edit: I have done some google-fu but sadly no luck finding a clone. 

2nd edit: This recipe seems to fit the bill (about the same ABV, IBU and use all EKG). https://byo.com/grains/item/1214-ordinary-bitter-style-profile​ 

Cheers.


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## dicko (13/5/15)

Maybe someone will come on here with a clone recipe for your enquiry...although I don't think this will happen.

Start with the recipe you have linked to and after a couple of brews you will probably get it pretty close.
When attempting to clone a beer try to only change one ingredient or procedure at a time so each change is easily identified and write down your results for each brew.

The fun in brewing IMO is doing what you want to achieve...wether it be a clone or a beer that fits your required specs.

Cheers


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## Tahoose (13/5/15)

There was another Kentish ale kicking around on here some time last year.


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## spaced (13/5/15)

Thanks Gents, will do


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## Bribie G (13/5/15)

To get the toffee notes and rosy colour I'd suggest about 200g of Caraaroma with MO as the base malt.
EKG hops all the way.

No idea about the yeast.


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## anthonyUK (13/5/15)

Bribie G said:


> No idea about the yeast.


Safale S-04 would be a reliable choice and Nottingham works well if a little .....ordinary.
For liquid yeast that article list the most popular choices.
If done well these 'ordinary bitters' are fantastic, easy drinking session ales.


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## Blind Dog (13/5/15)

Haven't had one of their beers in a long time, but at least some used to be bottle conditioned, so you could try to culture some if they still are.

Otherwise I'd stick to one of the drier English liquid strains like WY1099. Not a fan of dry English yeasts, happy that others are


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## manticle (13/5/15)

Can't remember when I last tried a shepherd neame but why does it look like a terrible beer?
Agreed on the dry yeast - why would you when there's such a widely available, diverse range of liquid?


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## anthonyUK (13/5/15)

manticle said:


> Agreed on the dry yeast - why would you when there's such a widely available, diverse range of liquid?


I don't think in this style the yeast contributes enough to warrant the extra cost TBH. A lot of decent breweries use dried yeast commercially in award winning beers so it works.
If you go for a best bitter or ESB I would agree that a liquid yeast would be worth it but if you have some to hand then go for it.


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## Blind Dog (14/5/15)

Each to their own and all that, but I personally find that the yeast adds heaps to an ordinary bitter. It's probably my biggest gripe with wheelers book. at an extra $6 or so per batch it's a worthwhile cost IMO. could just be me justifying the extra cost of course, but I reckon the difference is noticeable.


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## Blind Dog (14/5/15)

Just watched the tasting notes video - jeez he's a happy bloke who loves his job


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## manticle (14/5/15)

Extra cost is about $5 and that's only if you brew like me and buy fresh smack packs for every brew. Compare fermentis S04 english ale yeast with 1026pc british cask, 1028 london, 1275 thames, 1469 yorkshire, 1187 ringwood, 1099 whitbread, 1098 whitbread dry......

Then add in WL range and any I've forgotten. I mean the variation rather than how the yeast behaves of course - the choices are simply wider and each strain is markedly different. More wyeast brit strains available than there are generic 'brit' ale dry yeasts across numerous brands.


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## spaced (14/5/15)

Bribie G said:


> To get the toffee notes and rosy colour I'd suggest about 200g of Caraaroma with MO as the base malt.
> EKG hops all the way.
> 
> No idea about the yeast.


Hi Bribie,

Use that in place of the crystal and special roast in my link above?


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## nala (14/5/15)

manticle said:


> Extra cost is about $5 and that's only if you brew like me and buy fresh smack packs for every brew. Compare fermentis S04 english ale yeast with 1026pc british cask, 1028 london, 1275 thames, 1469 yorkshire, 1187 ringwood, 1099 whitbread, 1098 whitbread dry......
> Then add in WL range and any I've forgotten. I mean the variation rather than how the yeast behaves of course - the choices are simply wider and each strain is markedly different. More wyeast brit strains available than there are generic 'brit' ale dry yeasts across numerous brands.


I do not have the experience to comment on the various yeast strains,however, Fermentis claim that their SO4 is the most widely used commercial strain for English type bitters.
One of the problems I have when posters make claims with respect to using a particular yeast for a given recipe is...how many side by side tests have they conducted to come to this conclusion?
Without conducting side by side trials,memory or some other factor has to be used to make these claims.My limited experience would lead me to the balance between malt and hops,rather than the influence of the yeast.
Fullers London Pride,is an example where one would assume that a London yeast strain is used,who knows this to be true?
Yeast cultures from bottles...is the the yeast that, that has been used to ferment the beer?
Much of the mistique around the marketing is done to promote the uniqueness of the product for some perceived commercial advantage.
I must admit that in the past I have been taken in by claims made by golf club manufacturers...if you aint got the swing you can't hit the thing!


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## anthonyUK (14/5/15)

nala said:


> Fullers London Pride,is an example where one would assume that a London yeast strain is used,who knows this to be true?


In this example they do as the head brewer at Fuller's has made this info available. So Wyeast 1968 is correct.
It was in a podcast on BN, Brewstrong I think it was which is well worth a listen if you want to clone London Pride.


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## manticle (14/5/15)

I don't need to do a side by side* to know that s04 (which I've used) has a different character to 1768 (which I've used). Both are different to 1026 (which I've used), 1187, 1469, etc, etc. For what it's worth, I've made the same and similar recipes many times with yeast as the variation and each has a distinct character.

*Not side/side with 04 vs liquid but have previously made 3 milds, same grist, fermented with 3 different yeasts and drunk pints side by side as well as back to back esb with different yeasts.
It's way more than marketing.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/5/15)

Start with something like a Scottish Ale ( Pillar of Red ) and hop it up. Then pick a yeast to suit


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## Bribie G (14/5/15)

Interesting blog entry from a guy who has worked at several UK breweries.


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## Blind Dog (14/5/15)

There's an interview with John Keeling on Aurelius (wish I knew how to link on an iPad) where he states (comparing Fuller's to others) '...the biggest difference is our yeast.' 

I've done side by sides between many English strains (dry and liquid) and over the years have used all bar one of the dry English strains available in Australia (that I'm aware of). My obsession is brewing a pre-closure Brakspear bitter, so I even did a side by side between Wyeast 1275 and WLP023 (both supposed to be the brakspear strain per Mr Malty; bollocks are they). I simply don't buy that in a beer as subtle as an ordinary bitter that the yeast plays such a small part that it doesn't matter. Try a side by side simple 95% MO, 5% medium crystal, ekg hops, 3.5% ordinary bitter using any English dry yeast of choice and wy 1968 and then tell me yeast adds nothing.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/5/15)

Yeast plays a bigger part in flavour that what most brewers think

This is why I fell in love with w1728


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## slcmorro (14/5/15)

Tahoose said:


> There was another Kentish ale kicking around on here some time last year.


That'd be this one...

*Kentish Ale* (English Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (°P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.72 %
Colour (SRM): 7.8 (EBC): 15.4
Bitterness (IBU): 36.1 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

94.54% Golden Promise Malt
5.25% Caramunich I
0.21% Roasted Barley

0.9 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Ella (15% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)

S04 Yeast @ 17c

Single step Infusion at 67°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Came out fairly close. Very drinkable.


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## anthonyUK (15/5/15)

Kentish ale has been given PGI status and in the designation it mentions that a specific yeast is used but I don't know which one. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_food_and_drink_products_with_protected_status#Beers

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/271161/pfn-kentish-ale.pdf


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