# Conical Fermenter - Anyone use one?



## trustyrusty (19/3/17)

Hi When I first started brewing I had in my head a design for a conical fermenter before I know anything ( not that I know a lot now  ), all the gunk will be on the bottom and you can tap off until clear, and then dont have to worry about issue with the trub on the bottom causing issue. No secondary fermentation tank, and I have seen ones with a small bulb on the bottom so you can tap off trub if you want to recover yeast. You can bottle or keg from the bottom without wasting a drop. Makes real sense....

Thanks


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## Roosterboy (19/3/17)

I haven't used one , but I think the price is the problem. People look at the price for a plastic fermenter. If it came down,they would sell more. A smaller margin but larger sales volume should be their approach.


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## warra48 (19/3/17)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93589-kk-fermentasaurus-conical-pet-fermenter/

These seem to be generating some interest.


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## Weizguy (19/3/17)

Warra, seems to be a good entry-level conical. A bit small for my batches, but adequately sized for general acceptance.


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## Dr_Rocks (19/3/17)

I have the malt mechanics 60L hdpe conical fermenter. Dual tri clover fittings for sampling and dumping/harvesting yeast. It really is as easy as you say just open the bottom valve and I harvest yeast into a glass jar. Itts made out of one molded piece if plastic and it has a thermo well too. Got mine from clever brewing for under $500. No affiliation etc.


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## Lethaldog (19/3/17)

I've just recently bought an SS brewtech 17 gallon chronical and I love it, so easy to use and clean, ok they are initially expensive (around $1000 with a couple of upgrades) but since I have been brewing in plastic for 20 years and always wanted one I lashed out and now I'll never look back, not to mention it's the only vessel I'll personally ever need now!


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## Weizguy (19/3/17)

I have an 80 litre (about 20 US gallons) conical and a fridge which it fits into. Similar to Stout Tanks conical.
Great for lager or ales. Have only brewed in it a few times already.
Easy to clean and sanitise. Easy to fill/drain. Also OK for No-chill, using a blow of tube in a growler of sanitiser
Looks pretty and shiny. Will last a long time, but buy right/ buy once, and no need to replace


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## trustyrusty (19/3/17)

I did see this in US - 99.00 http://www.eckraus.com/fastferment-conical-fermenter.html%C2 Looks ok.. the link above looks good, cheers


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## GalBrew (19/3/17)

Get an SS Brewtech brewmaster bucket. It has a conical(ish) bottom and works great, is cheap and crud compacts to the bottoms nicely. I bought a conical previously and now never use it. Unless you want to reuse yeast you really don't need a proper conical fermenter.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/3/17)

Much has been debated about conical's

From what has been said over the years, conical's may not be actually any better than wide flat bottomed fermenters, in fact they may not be as good due to the smaller overall yeast surface area

I may be wrong


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## malt junkie (19/3/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Much has been debated about conical's
> 
> From what has been said over the years, conical's may not be actually any better than wide flat bottomed fermenters, in fact they may not be as good due to the smaller overall yeast surface area
> 
> I may be wrong


DBS are you outing yourself as a lager only brewer, because ale yeasts ferment on top; wouldn't they have the same yeast surface area? I do love my shiny conical and yet to try a lager in it. Happy to give some honest feedback on a lager when getput one down. 
Ales so far have fermented well and attenuation has been good if not better, the ability to harvest clean yeast is a big bonus.
Though the best thing is stainless is so easy to clean!


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/3/17)

Have never brewed Lager...dont even really like them TBH

Dont get me wrong, conicals are good things and have advantages, but the are not the golden item brewers think they are

Just because ales brew from the top does not mean that wide large surface area's are not good for Ales*


* Based on what I have gleaned over many years on here reading the many debates

** I have also know to be wrong, and many can cite some pretty awesome threads about my incorrect views

*** Many pro brewers have speculated stuff as well


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## Gelding (19/3/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Much has been debated about conical's
> 
> From what has been said over the years, conical's may not be actually any better than wide flat bottomed fermenters, in fact they may not be as good due to the smaller overall yeast surface area
> 
> *I may be wrong*


I think you are.

Are you implying for yeast to work they must face the wort they are feeding on ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/3/17)

Gelding said:


> I think you are.
> 
> *Are you implying for yeast to work they must face the wort they are feeding on *?


I shall let you know in 15 pages


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## mfeighan (19/3/17)

i have had 2 50l conicals for about 2.5 years now. Absolutely love them, i don't use them to their full potential for yeast harvesting etc but i do dump the trub usually around day 2-3 and the yeast just after cold crashing. For myself the added bonus is my fementers are pressurisable so my beers finish cleaner/faster as i can do them at higher temps. I did use one of my old plastic fems about a year ago as i was brewing for a bucs and had no room, dont know if the plastic degraded in the shed or something but i had to tip it  after that i threw out my 4 70l plastic ones and have never looked back.


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## Gelding (19/3/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I shall let you know in 15 pages


predictable.

The "surface area" available to the yeast is the liquid that surrounds its cell wall. 

The function of a conical is to facilitate the collection and removal of the yeast from the beer on completion of fermentation, as well as sampling and drainage following CIP, to name a few.


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## Brownsworthy (19/3/17)

I got the SS brewtech 54L conical and I love it. Great for cleaning and ever since I've owned it I get a much clearer product going into my kegs and less trub left behind in them.


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## trustyrusty (20/3/17)

Hi I dont really understand the Oxebar one. Are they saying after initial ferment and after you remove the trub you add the pressure cap you naturally ferment, but are you supposed to put in the fridge and serve from there. If not are they saying that will enough pressure to fill into another keg. The concept seems good to carbonate but you have have to own 3 or 4 if you were going to server from the fermenter as they say? cheers


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## oxebar (20/3/17)

Hi Trustyrusty,
We have tried to make an entry level conical that will cater to as many brewers as possible. It can be used as a standard conical with the gravity lid; you can dump your yeast/trub and clarify, then stick a hose on the bottom to bottle or keg your beer.
If you are using the pressure cap then we suggest using it for the entire fermentation. For blowoff you can connect a gas disconnect with a tube going to some water/sanitiser. Personally, I normally ferment under a bit of pressure with a spunding valve connected to the gas post. I can take samples from the liquid post for those occasions when I am interested in the gravity. I ferment in an old fridge; I crash chill, carbonate and pour a beer to see if it is missing anything. If I'm happy with it I transfer to a corny and that goes in a kegerator. If it needs something else I can do additions through either the collection bottle or directly through the posts. I find I am able to keep oxygen contact to minimum in this way. The Fermentasaurus is a bit bulky and I prefer use it for fermenting rather than serving, but serving is still an option for those brewers toying with the idea of kegging and haven't made the plunge (yet).
Depending on the size of your batch, there might be enough pressure in the headspace to transfer to a keg; but if you are doing this then chances are you will have a gas bottle available to connect up to the fermenter. If you do have a gas bottle available you can also counter pressure bottle fill straight out of the Fermentasaurus and not need any extra conditioning time; I will sometimes do this if I want to take just a couple of beers out somewhere.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/17)

Gelding said:


> predictable.
> 
> The "surface area" available to the yeast is the liquid that surrounds its cell wall.
> 
> The function of a conical is to facilitate the collection and removal of the yeast from the beer on completion of fermentation, as well as sampling and drainage following CIP, to name a few.


Which is why they are well suited to large scale commercial brewing


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## manticle (20/3/17)

Where the yeast need...less contact...?


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/17)

Jezzuz Mant's...its only page 2


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## malt junkie (21/3/17)

Having thought about this, I think a side by side lager might be a good little exbeeriment, as DBS duly noted, the yeast in a conical will be spread over a smaller area in the cone, where as in a kegmenter the area would conceptually be larger. Will these disparities have an affect on the fermentation and qualities of the beer? Quite obvious lagers have been successfully brewed in both, but is there a fermentation advantage of one over the other? (ie faster? cleaner?)

The othewr question is; can I get the purchase of a kegmenter past the minister of war and finance?


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## Jack of all biers (21/3/17)

malt junkie said:


> The othewr question is; can I get the purchase of a kegmenter past the minister of war and finance?


Finally an exbeeriment with a real chance of danger!


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## trustyrusty (21/3/17)

oxebar said:


> The Fermentasaurus is a bit bulky and I prefer use it for fermenting rather than serving, but serving is still an option for those brewers toying with the idea of kegging and haven't made the plunge (yet).


Hi thanks for reply, this is the part I don't understand, do you put this in the fridge or drink warm beer  Are you saying you can put in the fridge, then you would need 3 or 4 of them to make another batch and have batches at various stages... I have read about pressure fermenting as a good option, and there is one UK one - but I guess in the UK it is 5 degrees so need for a fridge  cheers


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## malt junkie (21/3/17)

Trustyrusty said:


> Hi thanks for reply, this is the part I don't understand, do you put this in the fridge or drink warm beer  Are you saying you can put in the fridge, then you would need 3 or 4 of them to make another batch and have batches at various stages... I have read about pressure fermenting as a good option, and there is one UK one - but I guess in the UK it is 5 degrees so need for a fridge  cheers


Most brewers have slid far enough down the slope to already be using a fridge/s as a controlled fermentation chamber.


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## oxebar (21/3/17)

Trustyrusty said:


> Hi thanks for reply, this is the part I don't understand, do you put this in the fridge or drink warm beer  Are you saying you can put in the fridge, then you would need 3 or 4 of them to make another batch and have batches at various stages... I have read about pressure fermenting as a good option, and there is one UK one - but I guess in the UK it is 5 degrees so need for a fridge  cheers


I ferment in a fridge and can set the temperature, I rarely have the desire to drink warm beer. These days I find that I can brew (ales) faster than I can drink them and I try to have a few full corny kegs before I put a lager on. I can get away with the one of them for the majority of my brewing needs, but I will be setting up another to play around with some sours and long term ageing.


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## trustyrusty (21/3/17)

Thanks - Do you transfer to they keg under pressure if moving to corny, otherwise you would lose a bit I guess??.... cheers


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## malt junkie (21/3/17)

Trustyrusty said:


> Thanks - Do you transfer to they keg under pressure if moving to corny, otherwise you would lose a bit I guess??.... cheers


That's the idea, attach co2 @ serving pressure during cold crash, by the time yeast has dropped clear the beer should be fully carbonated. Transfer under pressure or counter pressure bottle fill(CPBF). 

My self I only ever bottle for swaps or comps, both of which I use PET's for, be nice not to have to force carb a keg, just to then fill bottles.


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## oxebar (21/3/17)

Trustyrusty said:


> Thanks - Do you transfer to they keg under pressure if moving to corny, otherwise you would lose a bit I guess??.... cheers


Like Malt Junkie says, transfer under pressure is definitely preferable. But...
If you were fermenting under pressure with the PRV as blowoff; and the fermenter is sitting at about 2.4 bar; and you only did a 20 litre batch so that there was 15 litres of head space; and you have some super short, slippery, teflon coated transfer lines that you have painted red to make them go faster and also added some speed stripes to be sure; then you may very well be able to fill a 19litre corny without much beer left in the fermenter. It would probably get a bit slow toward the end of the transfer, and the beer would most likely be a bit over carbonated at this pressure unless it was sitting at about 23 deg C.
We actually have a batch on at the moment that meets most of these criteria, it has almost cleared up just fermenting at ambient temperature. I will do a test in a couple of days and let you know how it goes.


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## trustyrusty (21/3/17)

Great thanks - So I can't get my head around the pressurized fermenter option unless brewed in there, took out the trub, cleared the yeast in cold crashing, left in the fridge as a storage vessel and server which is great but then you would have own have about 4 or 5 . The normal ferment and transfer to a keg or bottle sounds the go.... What I have missed? thanks


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## malt junkie (22/3/17)

The serve from, I would view as a final option when all your kegs are loaded and you CBF botting. Pressure fermenting is an entire topic to itself there are advantages to using this method.


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## trustyrusty (22/3/17)

Thanks I that is what I have missed , I keg and bottle a few left over...so I was not even thinking of bottling... cheers


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## enoch (13/11/17)

Has anyone tried kegking’s 60 litre conical? At $599 it looks good.


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## Dangs260z (15/3/18)

enoch said:


> Has anyone tried kegking’s 60 litre conical? At $599 it looks good.



Looks basic. Good entry level for that price. I see they are out of stock for a while.


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## enoch (16/3/18)

I sent mine back at it was shiny on the outside and shitty on the inside.
Some of the welds were beyond grinding with some looking like they were actual holes.
They may have opened a few boxes and looked at them after that.


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## Dangs260z (16/3/18)

enoch said:


> I sent mine back at it was shiny on the outside and shitty on the inside.
> Some of the welds were beyond grinding with some looking like they were actual holes.
> They may have opened a few boxes and looked at them after that.



Wow that’s good to know, thanks for sharing. I guess that’s why they were cheap. May as well spend a few hundred bucks more and get better quality. Especially given it’s something that should last a long time.


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## enoch (18/3/18)

They said they were some prototypes that they decided not to progress with.
They were unable to send images of the insides which I think was because it was wrapped on mini pallet rather than they knew they were not of merchantabie quality.


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## malt and barley blues (18/3/18)

I have a Keg King conical and it is fine, well worth the money, looks like you got one that slipped through quality control.


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## enoch (18/3/18)

They used to do a lot of good stuff this just wasn’t one of them.
They did take it back with full refund as required by law but I spent quite a while to clean up the inside to see how bad it was and then pack back up again.

View media item 10719View media item 10717View media item 10718


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## malt and barley blues (18/3/18)

That definitely didn't go through QC. The manufacturer wouldn't send it out like that knowingly, means they can't even salvage it.


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## Dangs260z (19/3/18)

Jeez those pics show how horrid it was. You weren’t wrong to return it. 

If one was going to get a conical, is it better to get a pressured unit, or not worth the money?


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## enoch (19/3/18)

I like the idea of pressurised like the ss Brewtech unitank so you can carb in it too.
It is a bit of an indulgence though! I may just put an extra gas post and carb stone on my kegmenter lid and use it as a bright tank though.
I just did my second 50litre brew in 3 weeks which went into plastic fermenters which means no brewing for 6 months so the pressure to purchase is off. 
If the 17g unitank was in stock a month ago I would have bought one though.


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## Dangs260z (19/3/18)

enoch said:


> I like the idea of pressurised like the ss Brewtech unitank so you can carb in it too.
> It is a bit of an indulgence though! I may just put an extra gas post and carb stone on my kegmenter lid and use it as a bright tank though.
> I just did my second 50litre brew in 3 weeks which went into plastic fermenters which means no brewing for 6 months so the pressure to purchase is off.
> If the 17g unitank was in stock a month ago I would have bought one though.


 Yeah, they're a fair investment. But if you're going to fork out $'s for a conical, maybe it's worth it. Would be good if they were a few hundred cheaper though! 
No brewing for 6 months.....that sounds terrible. haha


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## TheSumOfAllBeers (19/3/18)

Dangs260z said:


> If one was going to get a conical, is it better to get a pressured unit, or not worth the money?



You want a conical that can do pressurised transfers, anything more than that is going to cost you a lot. If you really need to ferment under pressure, do it in a keg.


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## enoch (20/3/18)

Dangs260z said:


> No brewing for 6 months.....that sounds terrible. haha


That is the trade off for big batch brewing. Flip side is less cleaning.


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