# Dont Use Your Garden Hose To Fill Your Hlt



## Pumpy (12/6/06)

I was watching a programme called on Channel 9 called "Whats Good for You "

The question was is it Ok to drink water from the garden hose the answer was NO!

The plasticisers and toxins leech out of the coloured PVC pipe and are not healthy to drink .

I let you know this in the interest of Public health and safety for all Craft brewers he!he!

Pumpy


----------



## sinkas (12/6/06)

I am sure it will be fine once it's purged, maybe just dont use the skanky water thats been sitting in it since you last hosed off the pet elephant.

What s good for you....c'mon pumpy


----------



## peas_and_corn (12/6/06)

sinkas said:


> I am sure it will be fine once it's purged, maybe just dont use the skanky water thats been sitting in it since you last hosed off the pet elephant.
> 
> What s good for you....c'mon pumpy



Yeah, I was worrying about that too... :huh:


----------



## vlbaby (12/6/06)

i used to do it, but when i thought about it, hose water does have a plastic taste so i dont do it anymore.


vl.


----------



## Pumpy (12/6/06)

There you go I am trying to save youse all .

And there is always one 'Non believer '  

anyway the Elephant usually drinks the last bit ,I thought he was looking a bit 'peaky' there that is added proof . 

Pumpy


----------



## Bizarre (12/6/06)

I personally have still noticed a bit of a slight "plastic" taste even from water that has been run through the hose I have, so I wont use it for brewing at all. If you go to Bunnings you can buy food grade hose pipe lengths off the "cut to length" rolls they have in store - and I wouldnt imagine most people would need to buy 25 meters either so maybe thats an option.


----------



## Finite (12/6/06)

ive been drinking out of the hose since I was a pup, sureley if you lets it run through for a minute and after boiling it will be ok?


----------



## vlbaby (12/6/06)

you might be right finite. but when the water you use taste like plastic, and the beer your making is made from 90% + water, theres a good chance that the resultant beer your making is going to taste like the water your making it from. just my logic anyway.


vl.


----------



## tangent (12/6/06)

and you're using chlorinated tap water through it


----------



## muga (12/6/06)

I use a small 2m bit of hose and have not had a problem, always give it a good flushing before I use it.. it dosnt taste like plastic when it comes out either.. but going through a hose that is 25m long and has been sitting in the sun for 10 years, that always has a bad taste to it..


----------



## jgriffin (12/6/06)

Also, if you use your garden hose in QLD as of today, you are likely to end up with a fine if your neighbours don't like you.
Brewing is getting harder with the new water restrictions.


----------



## vlbaby (12/6/06)

muga said:


> I use a small 2m bit of hose and have not had a problem, always give it a good flushing before I use it.. it dosnt taste like plastic when it comes out either.. but going through a hose that is 25m long and has been sitting in the sun for 10 years, that always has a bad taste to it..


i would imagine that the plasticy taste would be proportional to the lenghth of hose its running thru.


vl.


----------



## Doc (12/6/06)

I got a 10m length of clear hose from the HW store. Clear because then I can see if it gets visibly ugly.
I also don't leave it outside with the garden hose; it gets drained and put away with the filter.

Doc


----------



## Kai (12/6/06)

I fill my HLT from my hose all the time. Our water is lousy with chlorine so I also add a pinch of metabisulphite.

I'm not worried about it at all and would consider the advice of a TV health show entirely spurious.


----------



## bigfridge (12/6/06)

Kai said:


> I fill my HLT from my hose all the time. Our water is lousy with chlorine so I also add a pinch of metabisulphite.
> 
> I'm not worried about it at all and would consider the advice of a TV health show entirely spurious.



Just wondering how you 'hosers' go in sanctioned beer competitions ?

Could be that you are blind to your own unique beer character.

David


----------



## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (12/6/06)

Personally I am very particular as to where I obtain my water for brewing. I collect my own.......

................OK Ill give you a wee peek at my collection system.







 

cheers

ATOMT


----------



## Kai (13/6/06)

bigfridge said:


> Kai said:
> 
> 
> > I fill my HLT from my hose all the time. Our water is lousy with chlorine so I also add a pinch of metabisulphite.
> ...



Last year, a first and a second in ANAWBS, a third in SABSOSA and a first in AABA.


----------



## Mr Bond (13/6/06)

Kai said:


> Just wondering how you 'hosers' go in sanctioned beer competitions ?
> 
> Could be that you are blind to your own unique beer character.
> 
> David



Last year, a first and a second in ANAWBS, a third in SABSOSA and a first in AABA.
[/quote]

Guess you just HOSED down that theory Kai :lol:


----------



## Ross (13/6/06)

May not be good for you, but seems it gives you that competetion edge  

++++

Personally, i wouldn't touch water out a garden hose, a friend of mine used to sell carbon filters & his main sales pitch at trade shows was supplying potential customers warm water through a garden hose against the filtered product - the difference was incredible, even to the most jaded palate. i guess the boil must drive these flavours off, but never been game to risk it.

cheers Ross


----------



## Screwtop (13/6/06)

Get a caravan hose, they've been around for donky's. You wouldn't be happy with the taste of water from a plastic garden hose sitting out in the sun providing your house water. They are made from white food grade plastic available just about anywhere. I use the one from my van to fill the HLT, other water I collect direct from the garden tap.


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

I just use some 12mm clear racking tube. It's easy enough to clamp some garden hose fittings on either end. Water is also run through a carbon filter.  

This is just to be safe rather than sorry. IMO if you run a few litres through your garden hose at a reasonable flow rate before running to your HLT you'd have no worries about supposed "hose taint". I think the garden hose knockers are just trying to start an argument for argument's sake. :blink: 

If you don't use a filter or campden tablets in your water just boil it before using it. 

Warren -


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

bigfridge said:


> Kai said:
> 
> 
> > I fill my HLT from my hose all the time. Our water is lousy with chlorine so I also add a pinch of metabisulphite.
> ...



Big fridge. Can you quantify your statement?

Have you tasted hose tainted beers when judging? There may be some people waiting for enlightenment. :unsure: 

Warren -


----------



## johnno (13/6/06)

Dont use grain.

its been sprayed with pesticides.

It will make your beer taste funny.


----------



## Hashie (13/6/06)

If the plasticisers are leeching from the PVC in hoses, do they also leech from modern water tanks?


----------



## Trough Lolly (13/6/06)

Hashie said:


> If the plasticisers are leeching from the PVC in hoses, do they also leech from modern water tanks?



...and new fermenters?


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

johnno said:


> Dont use grain.
> 
> its been sprayed with pesticides.
> 
> It will make your beer taste funny.



:lol: :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## devo (13/6/06)

Pffft, plasticisers, pesticides, apparently wanking will make you go blind? now where did i put my glasses??


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

By all accounts it leads to zinc deficiency too. :blink: 

Warren -


----------



## Peter Wadey (13/6/06)

Brauluver wrote:
Guess you just HOSED down that theory Kai 

Not really. Kai didn't mentioned what the beers were.
Some are more transparent than others.

Rgds,
Peter


----------



## Kai (13/6/06)

Yeah, and I could have carpet-bombed both comps too.


----------



## Doogiechap (13/6/06)

From this link

but in regard to PET bottles, there is another group of chemicals called phthalates that are sometimes added to plastics to make them flexible and less brittle. Phthalates are environmental contaminants that can exhibit hormone-like behavior by acting as endocrine disruptors in humans and animals.

No wonder I cry with hapiness about the wonders of this forum, :blink: my starters are in Coopers PET bottles


----------



## RobW (13/6/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> By all accounts it leads to zinc deficiency too. :blink:
> 
> Warren -



So now your yeast is screwed too!


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

RobW said:


> warrenlw63 said:
> 
> 
> > By all accounts it leads to zinc deficiency too. :blink:
> ...




As is my carpal tunnel. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## bigfridge (13/6/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Big fridge. Can you quantify your statement?
> 
> Have you tasted hose tainted beers when judging? There may be some people waiting for enlightenment. :unsure:
> 
> Warren -



Warren,

I wasn't meaning to make a statement - just raise the issue that unless it is removed, whatever is in your hose gets into the beer. My hose water is particularly stinky so I don't risk it.

And it is often hard to impartially evaluate your own beer. If there is a problem I would expect that it would show up as a medicinally/chemically character much like chlorine.

David


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

Thing is whatever's in it has to get in first. Generally speaking most hoses are on a tap with a spray nozzle or similar on the other end.

Not much could crawl through this. PVC & Copper pipes would have to house somthing 'orrible too if not used for any length of time.

My theory was/is if you're using your garden hose or any dormant tap in the yard for that matter to maybe run a few litres through it first before directing at your HLT.  

Warren -


----------



## sosman (13/6/06)

No one has factored in the quality of the hose. You can buy crappy hoses where you can't flush out the rubber taste. You can buy good quality hoses that don't. I fill my HLT from a hose all the time, I generally flush out the hose first but to be honest, I have never detected a rubbery taste from this particular garden hose.


----------



## Chatty (13/6/06)

Hashie said:


> If the plasticisers are leeching from the PVC in hoses, do they also leech from modern water tanks?



Modern water tanks - the decent ones anyway - are made from UV stabilised food grade plastic. No worries. The best tasting water in the world comes out of a concrete rainwater tank. Have I just started another argument?  

Bring on the garden hose...

Chatty


----------



## Chatty (13/6/06)

johnno said:


> Dont use grain.
> 
> its been sprayed with pesticides.
> 
> It will make your beer taste funny.



Actually, for someone who works in the agricultural industry i myself am a little nervous about this exact possibility. It was only a few weeks ago that a particular herbicide manufacturer sent out a warning stating that we aren't allowed to use a particular herbicide on export hay. For those that don't know, there is a particularly big industry in WA where hay is exported to Japan for consumption by cattle. Anyway, a load of hay went over, some cattle ate it and the manure was composted - think microbes working. The manure was then spread over lettuces that were being grown in the area as a fertiliser and the crop was destroyed. The active ingredient in the herbicide used in WA was found at a concentration of 0.05 ppm in the lettuces and the problem was traced back to the grower in WA!

Phew, that was long winded.

Chatty


----------



## Darren (13/6/06)

I use a food grade hose from Bunnings. Designated food grade. It is blue with the usual hose "threads" in it.
Damn site cheaper than racking hose too. (I think it was $30 for 18 or so metres). Just run it from my Pura-tap to the kettle

cheers

Darren


----------



## vlbaby (13/6/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> I think the garden hose knockers are just trying to start an argument for argument's sake. :blink:



Nobodys arguing here mate. Its a general discussion on the pros/cons of using a garden hose in a brewery.

I personally dont use one anymore because the water that comes out of it taste like crap! If your happy using yours then go right ahead, but dont accuse the 'hose knockers' of starting argument.


vl.


----------



## Jazman (13/6/06)

if using it maybe let the warmer water run out of the hose


----------



## warrenlw63 (13/6/06)

vlbaby said:


> I personally dont use one anymore because the water that comes out of it taste like crap! If your happy using yours then go right ahead, but dont accuse the 'hose knockers' of starting argument.
> 
> 
> vl.



VL.

If you read back further you'd realise I don't use a garden hose. I use 12mm PVC racking hose with hose fittings.  That being said I can't see anything wrong with filling a HLT with it provided you run a bit of water through it first. The only reason I use the PVC is because it doesn't kink as much when I'm running it around the corner of the garage to the garden tap. 

I suppose it's not an argument per se but I guess it will do until somebody starts a thread debating the merits of a fly crawling up a wall or the price of fish. :blink: 

Warren -


----------



## Batz (13/6/06)

You really should not use you tap either,you get that brassy taste

Batz h34r:


----------



## metters (14/6/06)

You shouldn't use water either but that is a whole nother story
nm


----------



## vlbaby (14/6/06)

warren, 
what's wrong with a little argument in a forum anyway?

I'm well aware that there is a level of debate surrounding certain subjects, and perhaps this subject is no exception. But there is however and extraordinary amount of BS floating around out the in Homebrew land that a homebrewer has to weed thru to get to the truth.
Unfortunatly these forums aren't full of Master Brewing experts, but ordinary guys with a passion for what they do and a thirst for good beer and good knowledge. If the purpose of these forums isn't for discussion and debate and sharing of ideas and new information, then what is it for?

Pumpy has bought to the table some information he has acquired from a television show. He has not hid the fact of where the information has come from, and has not passed on the information as fact, merely just as a piece of evidence that may be helpful to other homebrewers. Now maybe you choose to beleive that, or maybe you don't. Thats your decision.
I personally appreciate threads like this one, because it helps me to decide which ideas in HB'ing are real and which ones are BS. So if that means debate/arguments even about a fly crawling up the wall, imo, bring them on. 
The 'no chiller' thread of recent as i recall was a huge collection of debate and argumentive comments, but it proved to be one of the most interesting threads i have read so far in this forum, and i'm sure it has proved in some way a construtive influence for many a homebrewer.
My point is, theres nothing wrong with 'constructive' argument in these threads, and if a person doesnt' like it then they a free not to participate.

Anyhow, no offense intended to you warren, but i just had to get that thought out.

I'll take a breathe now  


cheers

vl.


ps. Batz your a stirrer


----------



## warrenlw63 (14/6/06)

Fair enough VL.  

As for Batz I think he's on a separate thread debating the merits of a S/S lined hose. :lol: 

Bulk buy anybody?

Warren -


----------



## Pumpy (14/6/06)

vlbaby said:


> warren,
> what's wrong with a little argument in a forum anyway?
> 
> I'm well aware that there is a level of debate surrounding certain subjects, and perhaps this subject is no exception. But there is however and extraordinary amount of BS floating around out the in Homebrew land that a homebrewer has to weed thru to get to the truth.
> ...




Thanks Vlbaby for 'wielding the sword' in the cause of 'Fair debate' I could not have said it bettter .

Pumpy


----------



## warrenlw63 (14/6/06)

I concede(d) the point Pumpy. Your "Sir Echo" improvisation is most welcome though.  

Warren -


----------



## Peter Wadey (14/6/06)

Kai said:


> Yeah, and I could have carpet-bombed both comps too.



Kai,
No need to get so defensive.
Nobody was suggesting your beer wasn't worthy of the awards.
I was just stating the bleeding obvious to Brauluver.

Rgds,
Peter


----------



## Kai (14/6/06)

Peter Wadey said:


> Kai said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, and I could have carpet-bombed both comps too.
> ...




Sorry Pete, I didn't mean it like that. I was being honest... I could have. I didn't though.

The posts previous to that one were when I was a bit inebriated and I wanted to divorce myself from them.


----------



## tangent (14/6/06)

while we're off the topic all together - IMO the statement that a beer has won any kind of award is a bees dick away from useless. so someone liked your beers better than someone elses and gave you a certificate/ribbon/medal/smiley stamp. that doesn't make you Beer Jeebus or testify that your brewing practices and procedures sound. if we were brewing to please everyone else, we'd be brewing VB. brew for your tastebuds and enjoyment, not to impress some judges. h34r: 

back to topic - GMK was suggesting there's a blue hose avail from Bunnings that is kosher for 80C+. I've only seen the clear reinforced. Which is the one to go for? I couldn't even find the blue.


----------



## Aaron (14/6/06)

tangent said:


> while we're off the topic all together - IMO the statement that a beer has won any kind of award is a bees dick away from useless. so someone liked your beers better than someone elses and gave you a certificate/ribbon/medal/smiley stamp. that doesn't make you Beer Jeebus or testify that your brewing practices and procedures sound. if we were brewing to please everyone else, we'd be brewing VB. brew for your tastebuds and enjoyment, not to impress some judges. h34r:



It is certainly not something to really brag about but feedback from competition is great. Judges in competitions do not judge based on what they like best. Judging is based on how well a beer meets a style guide. Now if you don't have beers that fit in styles it will not suit you. However if you do you can get some very good feedback. I know I have gotten great feedback from judges.

Even if you don't hit styles you can enter something that is close. That way even if you don't score well you can take feedback on faults etc. If you really want to learn something about your beer and your process enter it in one of the reputable competitions. Not all the judges are extremely experienced, it's hard to get judges, but there will always be a good proportion of experienced judges.

I know you were commenting on awards and not competitions specifically but they do go hand in hand. I would encourage you to enter some to get some unbiased feedback on your beers. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what anyone says if you like it but it can really help you improve your process.


----------



## Darren (14/6/06)

The one I have is Blue/clear and reinforced. Cheaper by the roll.

cheers

Darren


----------



## Kai (14/6/06)

The point was, tangent, that if my beer was lousy with any sort of plastic taint then it wouldn't have placed first in any category.


----------



## tangent (14/6/06)

i know Kai, i wasn't referring to your post in particular. edit - but if the other beers were absolute shit, you could have plastic taste going crazy and still got a 1st.
Aaron, what's wrong with asking people for feedback? Why limit it to one or two people who might prefer lagers (or coopers kits)
Then you get more than 1 opinion. (btw - i think your Bitter and IPA were very balanced and bloody lovely beers the other night)

Does it have any markings Darren?


----------



## warrenlw63 (14/6/06)

LOL! This is going (as I thought it would) from who's got the most tainted hose to who's got the longest hose. :lol: h34r: 

Warren -


----------



## Darren (14/6/06)

When i was there it was not with the hoses. Had to ask. Think it was one isle over with what I have no idea

cheers


----------



## vlbaby (14/6/06)

i think i know the stuff your talking about darren. It fairly rigid right? in comparison with ordinary garden hose i mean.

I went the tight arse option and bought a food grade bucket myself.


vl.


----------



## Kai (14/6/06)

tangent said:


> i know Kai, i wasn't referring to your post in particular. edit - but if the other beers were absolute shit, you could have plastic taste going crazy and still got a 1st.



That's very true, but given the standard south australia sets, what's the chance of that happening?


----------



## Mr Bond (14/6/06)

Peter Wadey said:


> Kai said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, and I could have carpet-bombed both comps too.
> ...



And my post was a pre dawn Tounge in cheek pun that ultimately meant nothing more than ,that i saw an opening and went down the peurile/pointless post route.  
And if the obvious is bleeding I'll apply a bandaid,thanks for the pointer PW :beer:


----------



## Darren (14/6/06)

vlbaby said:


> i think i know the stuff your talking about darren. It fairly rigid right? in comparison with ordinary garden hose i mean.
> 
> 
> 
> vl.




Thats the stuff. I also used to use a fermenter to fill my HLT but I had to tip it over the balcony to get to the HLT. Wasn't very efficient as most of it missed :angry: 

cheeers

Darren


----------



## dicko (14/6/06)

Hi all.

I am proud of myself till now for not entering this debate, I usually go in "hook line and sinker" on this kind of forum argument.

I fill my HLT from a hose h34r:

I have attained prize results in recognised brew comps!! 

I am now frightened 

From now on I will use a bucket - but hang on - which one?

The plastic one or the galvanised one?? :lol:

Can you help???

Cheers


----------



## tangent (14/6/06)

go the galv Dicko
zinc for the yeast


----------



## vlbaby (14/6/06)

This is my last say on the subject of hoses , i promise 
My opinion is, that I dont beleive that using a plastic hose with necessarily make or break a beer. The way in which the starter / no starter or the chill/no chill or any other method will probably make a profound difference. However a accumulation of good or poor brewing practices will certainly add up to a result that may make a considerable difference in the quality of the end result.
I for one, am looking for every single edge i can get to make a beer i consider decent. If trying no garden hose eliminates a possible defect, and its an easy one to try, then why not?

my last 2c worth, i'm just about broke.  


vl.


----------



## dicko (14/6/06)

tangent said:


> go the galv Dicko
> zinc for the yeast



OK,
The galvanised one it is then, orrr right!!  
Cheers


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (14/6/06)

I can only taste bird shit and gum leaves in my tank.... h34r: 


My water restrictions are permanent....


----------



## warrenlw63 (14/6/06)

I've found the perfect solution to fill my HLT and they work for peanuts I believe. :beer: 

Warren -


----------



## lucas (14/4/07)

sorry in advance for digging up an old thread, but i have a question. i've acquired a benchtop filter thinger that I plan on using to filter all my brewing water with a carbon block filter. I've put a standard hose fitting on it and was planning on running water from the tap through the garden hose, into the filter and then straight from the filter into the hlt. would the filter theoretically remove any concerns raised in this thread or are they a different matter?


----------



## Pumpy (15/4/07)

lucas said:


> sorry in advance for digging up an old thread, but i have a question. i've acquired a benchtop filter thinger that I plan on using to filter all my brewing water with a carbon block filter. I've put a standard hose fitting on it and was planning on running water from the tap through the garden hose, into the filter and then straight from the filter into the hlt. would the filter theoretically remove any concerns raised in this thread or are they a different matter?




The Carbon block filter removes Chlorine and Offensive Tastes/Odours Lucas .

you will be alright 


Pumpy


----------



## lucas (15/4/07)

hehe... i went to bunnings this morning and saw the caravan hoses like people spoke of. $15 for 10M so I grabbed one. I figure I spent more than that on the grains for todays batch  either way, now I have a brewery hose


----------



## T.D. (15/4/07)

lucas said:


> hehe... i went to bunning this morning and saw the caravan hoses like people spoke of. $15 for 10M so I grabbed one. I figure I spent more than that on the grains for todays batch  either way, now I have a brewery hose



Yeah, I picked one of these up a while back. They look the goods. I'm not sure about how much pressure they can handle (ie mains pressure?) but it seems to be handling pretty well so far. You can get the clear reinforced stuff but at $5/m its over 3X more expensive. I plan to (eventually) rig mine up so it feeds directly into my HLT.


----------



## kook (15/4/07)

When I went looking for a hose for my brewery, the blue caravan ones were on special. It was actually cheaper than a garden hose! That said, I then went and spent 2X the price of the hose on brass fittings :lol:


----------

