# Keg King kegerator series 4



## tavas

Does anyone know when the Series 4 kegerator is coming out? Keg King said early-mid this year, then August. Just wondering if anyone has inside info.


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## MattSR

What advantages does it have over the Mk3?


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## tavas

This is the first email from Keg King:

The compressor is more powerful, the unit comes with an integrated internal air circulation fan, more robust guard rail, stainless steel top, more space inside the fridge and is actually more compact so customers will be able to build them underneath the bench top more easily. We have also made the digital controls more reliable and more robust plus included some flash memory so if you have a power outage the temperature does not reset, it will remember the previous set point.
I was hoping one of the local brewers may have some inside info on how they are going and when they are likely to come on the market. I've been chasing this since last year and putting off getting one.

Attached are some photos they sent me last year.


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## biggles266

Would be interested to know - currently looking at some kegerator options. Does anyone have any info?


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## tavas

Latest I have now is sometime in November. I am not holding my breath as it's been close to a year now. I'm looking at another option.


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## MattSR

I have owned a series three since 2010, and it's pretty nice!


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## meathead

Dropped in today
End of year more likely


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## Diggs

I've got approval to buy one now, looking for a 3 font version.

Any suggestion for where to get a full set up in Brisbane (Northside preferably)?


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## panzerd18

Dam that baby looks nice


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## TidalPete

I was stung by KG in my early brewing days & also with the kettle element thingo & so wish you all the best of luck with it. 
NEVER AGAIN!

No affiliation with others, yadda, yadda.

Check out the warrantees from the various sponsors & you might be surprised?


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## bradsbrew

Assuming these are the same as the craftbrewer ones, what is the diameter of the hole in the top and how much space is there between the top of the kegs and the ceiling of the kegerator?
I have a flooded cobra font that I would want to use but it will more than likely extend into the fridge?

Cheers


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## droid

apols for the upside down, the headspace is around 3"
the other pic is the bung that comes out of the font hole or whatever you call it and is around 1 1/2"

that's KK kegs with the rubber bottom eh


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## bradsbrew

Thanks Droid.

Cheers


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## cliffo

Got my series 4 delivered yesterday and kegged my first beers in over 9 months today.

First pour was a Hop Hog clone that's tasting great.

Loving the Perlick 650SS taps.


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## cliffo

Does anyone have a gas manifold mounted in a series 4?

Currently running a few splitters but wanting to go a manifold and mount it to the internal wall of the fridge.

Where is a safe area to screw one of these in to?


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## tavas

I used double sided auto repair tape from the local hardware store


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## cliffo

tavas said:


> I used double sided auto repair tape from the local hardware store


Good idea, sounds like a safer option.


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## Rocker1986

I have a gas manifold on mine although it's not a series 4. What I did was remove the plastic insert from the hole at the back where the gas lines go in, which made the hole bigger. This allowed me to mount the manifold on the outside of the unit and run all three lines through the hole into the kegs inside. I also just used double sided tape to stick it on, it's good strong stuff, probably similar to the auto repair tape.


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## ChefKing

Just bought one, should be here in 7 days looking forward to it arriving. 

After 2 disasters trying to make my own kegerator out of crappy 2nd hand fridges.... (first one I hit freon line while drilling, 2nd one the motor broke down) I am done!

Should have just bought the KK kegerator straight up and saved myself a load of money, time and effort!

Oh well you live and learn...


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## Grott

Let us know how it goes after set up.
Cheers


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## Bribie G

One thing about the series 4 that I really love is that, because the compressor hump is far smaller, the kegs can sit back further, giving plenty of space for half a dozen bottles as well.
I even fitted in half a carton of Oettinger 500ml cans, stacked on top of each other.


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## lost at sea

im almost set on a series 4......just cannot decide wether to go with 2 or 3 tap setup....and which taps of course :/

common sense says 2 taps with a 3rd keg inside ready to go.......male brain says 3 taps......because.....3 taps......hmmmm


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## cliffo

lost at sea said:


> im almost set on a series 4......just cannot decide wether to go with 2 or 3 tap setup....and which taps of course :/


This was my dilemma too. I liked the idea of just two taps with one keg ready to go but after asking the same question was convinced to go with three taps as you can always just not tap one keg and the extra outlay for additional tap was minimal.

Glad I went the 3 tap setup now as it's good to have options.

I got Perlick 650 flow controls SS taps. Well worth the money.


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## peteru

I've got three taps so that I can have enough variety on the go. Stout, IPA, Pilsener. Chilling another keg may be an overnight job if you start from room temperature, but if you have a fermenting/lagering fridge, you can have it pre-chilled or at least cooler than room temp.

The amount of horizontal space in a KK4 is nice. Big enough for three kegs and a few jars of yeast or bottles of beer. The amount of vertical space above the kegs is very minimal though - that makes it hard to attach and remove the disconnects once a keg is in place.

I have also put the manifold on the outside and just removed the plug for the gas hose. That makes it very easy to run three gas lines into the fridge and operating the manifold from the outside is much easier. You can do it without opening the fridge and letting the cold air out.


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## fdsaasdf

peteru said:


> I've got three taps so that I can have enough variety on the go. Stout, IPA, Pilsener. Chilling another keg may be an overnight job if you start from room temperature, but if you have a fermenting/lagering fridge, you can have it pre-chilled or at least cooler than room temp.
> 
> The amount of horizontal space in a KK4 is nice. Big enough for three kegs and a few jars of yeast or bottles of beer. The amount of vertical space above the kegs is very minimal though - that makes it hard to attach and remove the disconnects once a keg is in place.
> 
> I have also put the manifold on the outside and just removed the plug for the gas hose. That makes it very easy to run three gas lines into the fridge and operating the manifold from the outside is much easier. You can do it without opening the fridge and letting the cold air out.


I have a very similar setup with my series 2 kegerator that I picked up 2nd hand. A little more space would be nice but I have a separate small fridge for lagering / beer / bbq essentials so not really necessary. It was a PITA to fit 3 gas lines through the hole but worth it to have the external 4-line manifold, not much of a fan of having the door open to shake a keg while force carbonating!


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## blotto

lost at sea said:


> im almost set on a series 4......just cannot decide wether to go with 2 or 3 tap setup....and which taps of course :/
> 
> common sense says 2 taps with a 3rd keg inside ready to go.......male brain says 3 taps......because.....3 taps......hmmmm


I have 3 taps, I don't currently brew enough to have all 3 taps running so one tap always has soda water for the wife and kids. Your better off looking at it than for it I always say.


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## cliffo

I currently have a 3-way gas manifold mounted to one of the drink holder screw holes inside the fridge but wanting to move the manifold out of the fridge since it is getting in the way.

Has anyone else done this (I vaguely recall seeing something) and where have you mounted it?


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## Rocker1986

I don't know if the set up on 4 is the same as 3 that I have, but I simply mounted the manifold on the right hand side of the kegerator towards the back, removed the plastic tube from the gas line hole which allowed me to feed all three lines through into the kegs. This was the way I always had it though, after looking inside and seeing if the manifold would fit I quickly decided that was a shit idea because it wouldn't fit with the kegs and I wouldn't easily be able to access the valves and put it on the outside. I do have a 4 way manifold though so I can use the spare line for purging/quick carbing or whatever.


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## peteru

On the KK4, the gas line hole is on the left hand side. It's easy to remove the plastic grommet and doing so leaves a hole that is big enough to easily feed three gas lines through. I mounted my 4 way manifold on a wooden block and attached the wooden block to a thin plastic strip that runs the entire height of the kegerator. I attached the plastic strip using the existing screws that hold the metal cage at the bottom and the top panel. This way I did not have to make any permanent modifications to the fridge.


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## fdsaasdf

cliffo said:


> I currently have a 3-way gas manifold mounted to one of the drink holder screw holes inside the fridge but wanting to move the manifold out of the fridge since it is getting in the way.
> 
> Has anyone else done this (I vaguely recall seeing something) and where have you mounted it?


My fridge is under a bar and the manifold is mounted to one of the bar uprights.


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## cliffo

Cheers guys, a few options I can look at.


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## Hostage_85

I just got my KK4 last weekend, I was surprised the wife said yes haha.
I was going to make my own, but time constraints plus getting all the bits, it was easier to just get an existing one.
Plus Andrew and Bulk Brewing here in Perth was doing a great deal on them.

I don't have any beer in it yet though, I've got a Pale ale and a pilsner to go.
The plan is to mount it under my bar (When I finish it) and maybe change to a 3 tap system later down the line.

I can't wait until my beer is ready to keg haha


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## SponsorSFC

Hostage_85 said:


> I just got my KK4 last weekend, I was surprised the wife said yes haha.
> I was going to make my own, but time constraints plus getting all the bits, it was easier to just get an existing one.
> Plus Andrew and Bulk Brewing here in Perth was doing a great deal on them.
> 
> I don't have any beer in it yet though, I've got a Pale ale and a pilsner to go.
> The plan is to mount it under my bar (When I finish it) and maybe change to a 3 tap system later down the line.
> 
> I can't wait until my beer is ready to keg haha


I came across here researching for a new setup. 

I am also in Perth but couldn't see any Kegarators on the Bulk Brewing website but it looks like it is a work in progress, any chance you could let me know what they were selling them for?


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## Hostage_85

Hi Sponsor,
Look up Andrew www.bulkbrewingsupplies.com.au on Facebook. he writes up most of his specials on there.
I think the site is still a work in progress, so this deal isn't on there.

The one I got was Keggerator System Series 4, (2 xstainless steel intertap, all beer lines, clamps, connectors, regulator, 2.6kg co2 bottle, drip tray, font fan, and 2 x genuine cornelius serviced kegs) for $990

He's just bought in another 12 systems and the deal is still running so shoot him an email.


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## SponsorSFC

Thanks mate, will check it out.


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## cliffo

Well that was easy enough, even for a tool tard such as myself.


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## Hostage_85

Question on Foaming?

I've got 2 kegs in my Series 4.
I've kept the beer lines at the same length they came with.

I've got a Pale Ale in one keg and a Pilsner in the other.
Running on 10psi, the Pale Ale pours almost perfect. Slightly more foam than i'd like, but nothing I can't handle.
The Pilsner however, always comes out foamy, almost half a glass of foam on the first pour and maybe 1/4 of the glass after that.

The font fan is on, and its pretty cold, theres condensation dripping from the font and the taps, so I don't think warm beer lines is an issue.
Do you think its just that the beer lines are only 4mm?


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## peteru

The pressure could be too low. Try it at 12psi.

Also check for any kinks.


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## Hostage_85

Cheers, I'll give that a try.


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## Rocker1986

Put the font fan conduit in the bottom of the font too rather than the top (unless it already is there). I know it sounds illogical given that cold air sinks but I tried it both ways when I had one of those fonts and it worked much better blowing the cold air up into it from near the bottom rather than shoving the conduit all the way to the top of the font and trying to get it to sink down.


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## Hostage_85

Thats a good idea, i'll try that too.

Cheers.


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## Jrrj

Quick question for everyone who has a series 4 already who has put soda water on tap. Do you ever get issues with the line freezing? I have an old KK kegerator, possibly the first series they did, and whenever the weather warms up above 20 degrees I get issues with the my soda water line freezing. Every time it happens I need to pull the keg out and bend the line around where it goes into the font, so that the ice breaks up and I can pour again.

I assume the issue is caused by poor temperature consistency in the fridge, which causes the cooler to run longer and the cooling unit to frost up pretty significantly (by the end of summer I get a massive ice block across the back). I'm hoping and assuming this sort of issue does not exist for newer models. Could anyone confirm? I'd be especially interested to hear from anyone in a hot climate who has a permanent soda water tap and doesn't run the font fan 24/7.

Thanks


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## peteru

My use and climate totally doesn't fit your criteria, but I can tell you that even with the KK4 set to 4C at 25C ambient, the back wall and drip channel will get ice forming if you are not running the fan. If your line touches the back wall, it will freeze.

On KK4 the temperature sensor is in the right hand side wall, just past half way back and fairly high up. There is a slim plastic cover over it. It just happens to be at around the place where a keg will mostly block it. With three kegs in the fridge and the fan off, the temperature gradient and consequently delay between the cooling at the condenser on the back wall and what the sensor reads inside the side wall will be huge.

My tip would be to run the fan and if possible keep the sensor area as clear as is practical.


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## Jrrj

Great advice, thanks peteru. Maybe first task should be to install a fan blowing up the font on the current unit rather than buy a KK4...


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## Rocker1986

Or use one of the front keg spaces for the soda water. I usually run a keg of soda water when one of my beer kegs runs out and its' almost always one of the front ones that blows dry first, so it goes in there and the line is away from the back. Unit set to -1C and never get freezing of the water.


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## Jrrj

Yep I definitely need to look at the location of the soda water line as it enters the font. Based on your reply and peteru's, I'm thinking I might put some foam insulation around the line and possible shorten it too (it is a permanent soda water tap but previously beer so longer line than necessary).


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## fdsaasdf

I have a decent ice build up on the back wall of my (pre-4) kegerator in summer, so on a weekday every month or so I bump the temp up to 5deg for a day or so. This allows it to all thaw out and then I drop it back to 2 or 3 to keep the beer at appropriate temps for tropical conditions.


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## benju63

just another question for those of you with this keg master series 4 if you can please help me out!!
is it possible to use the font through a stone bench top using a locking but from the underside of the bench.
As opposed to the four bolt holes at the base of the font??
By using a insert/adapter or some sort of other set up?


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## Rocker1986

You'd probably need a flooded font to do something like that easily without using the four bolt holes on the standard fonts. They come with a longer threaded pipe sticking out of them with a nut to hold it in place.


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## bradsbrew

Bought one of these just over a month ago. The back wall is currently ice and the drain area is full of ice. I have it set to 1 degree and it has been sitting at 12 degrees for the last 3 hours. Anyone else having these issues?


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## Bribie G

I've had that problem with my series one.
There was a blocked drain hole (where the condensate runs out of the cabinet then down to the top of the compressor to be evaporated off, just like in a domestic fridge).

You could check that. The blocked drain causes ice to form then, with nowhere for water to run off to, the ice just keeps on growing like upside down icicles.


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## bradsbrew

Yeah the drain is currently full of ice, have pulled the font fan conduit out of the font and directed it at the back wall to try and melt it.
Don't really want to have to defrost it and wake up to a pool of water in the dining room.


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## peteru

Make sure that the door seals well and that the gas hose hole is also well sealed. The ice is forming as a result of moist air making it's way inside the fridge and condensing. Setting the temperature to 1C means that the cooling coils will spend most of their time at below freezing temperatures, so the ice has very little chance of melting and draining out. You might want to set a slightly higher temp to alleviate the problem.


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## bradsbrew

Yes i sealed around the gas hole with blutac last night.
Had set it to 1c to help with the font. Might pump him up to 4c and see if i can get the ice to melt away.


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## Bribie G

Man up and defrost the bugger. 
That's what SWMBO's towel collection is for.

edit: I can't believe that this is this the kick arse Brad that we have come to know and love? Get those loins girded, big fella.


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## huez

Definitely needs a defrost. You will end up doing damage if you let it go. Your kegs will stay cold long enough, just break away the ice once it starts defrosting enough so you're not waiting ages.


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## bradsbrew

Bribie G said:


> Man up and defrost the bugger.
> That's what SWMBO's towel collection is for.
> 
> edit: I can't believe that this is this the kick arse Brad that we have come to know and love? Get those loins girded, big fella.


Haha, it's not about making a mess in my newly aquired area. It's my pig headed stubbornness telling me, i am $800 odd (font & taps)into a new kegerator, why the **** am i defrosting it 1 month in. Well if it's because i didn't plug the gas hole, i will cop that on the chin. If i have to defrost it each month, I'll head back to craftebrewer and ask Ross to promptly shove this big clump of ice up keg kings clacker.
It currently turned of to defrost, so i can also change the position of the gas manifold.


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## Bribie G

More than likely an obstruction in the water drain tube, definitely poke something through and see how it is. Might even be a bit of plastic or something from assembly.


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## peteru

Qld weather is different enough to Sydney, but the frost formation is purely a function of moisture and temperature. That's good news for Ross, because there won't be any need for icicle showing in kings clackers. ;-)

Just a bit of customer education. Don't set the fridge to freezing temperature and keep it sealed.

Here's another tip to help you. The KK4 has the ability to "calibrate" the temperature setting. You might want to do that, so that when you think you have it at 4C, it is actually at 4C. Mine was off by about 2 or 3C from the factory. I adjusted it on the first day.

I realise that everyone has a different preference for beer serving temperature. I find that for my needs a setting between 6C and 8C is a good compromise. It's cold enough for the lightest beers I tend to serve and with the more complex beers, I tend to pour them and let them sit for a while until they come up to drinking temperature. Sometimes that temperature is in the 14-16C bracket. If you find that your beers warm up too quickly, you might want to consider using pre-chilled thick walled glasses and serve a smaller volume more often.

The physics behind the frosting in the fridge are fixed. If there is moisture and temperature is at 0C or bellow, ice will form. It won't be able to drain.


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## peteru

Errrr. I probably should have put more smilies in the above post. It was my attempt at humour, but perhaps it didn't quite come across that way. :unsure:


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## bradsbrew

All my previous keezers and keg fridges have been set to 4c and never had problems.
I went with 1c as that is what KK recomended to prevent foaming etc. It is now defrosted and set to 4c and gas hole plugged. I did watch the calibration video the other night, so i have a glass of water in there now and will calibeate tonight. Thanks for the tips peteru.


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## Batz

bradsbrew said:


> All my previous keezers and keg fridges have been set to 4c and never had problems.
> I went with 1c as that is what KK recomended to prevent foaming etc. It is now defrosted and set to 4c and gas hole plugged. I did watch the calibration video the other night, so i have a glass of water in there now and will calibeate tonight. Thanks for the tips peteru.


Mine needs regular defrosting as well. In fact reading this, I checked last night and like I you defrosted mine as well.
I also had mine set to 1C, so this morning changed to 4C and plugged the gas line hole. Really a little surprised it freeze's up at 1C with the only opening the small gas line hole. I had no trouble with my old chest freezer conversions.

Brad could you post a link to the calibration video please?

Batz


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## HBHB

Batz said:


> Mine needs regular defrosting as well. In fact reading this, I checked last night and like I you defrosted mine as well.
> I also had mine set to 1C, so this morning changed to 4C and plugged the gas line hole. Really a little surprised it freeze's up at 1C with the only opening the small gas line hole. I had no trouble with my old chest freezer conversions.
> 
> Brad could you post a link to the calibration video please?
> 
> Batz


 Has worked for most of the guys. Not so much for some and one not at all, so after multiple phone calls to try and help the guy, did the 40 minute drive to check it out. Turns out he opens the door to access a pluto gun on his third keg so the fridge is being opened in 90% humidity in a shed that would be 40+ C in these temps we've had. A keg lasts them less than 2 days. That's a lot of opening and closing of the door to let humidity in and create ice. Got to love a warm beer made on a homebrand tin and 1.5kg of raw sugar fermented at 40+ that's 6 days old. :blink:


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## bradsbrew

HBHB said:


> Has worked for most of the guys. Not so much for some and one not at all, so after multiple phone calls to try and help the guy, did the 40 minute drive to check it out. Turns out he opens the door to access a pluto gun on his third keg so the fridge is being opened in 90% humidity in a shed that would be 40+ C in these temps we've had. A keg lasts them less than 2 days. That's a lot of opening and closing of the door to let humidity in and create ice. Got to love a warm beer made on a homebrand tin and 1.5kg of raw sugar fermented at 40+ that's 6 days old. :blink:


You told him tasted nice too didn't you Martin.
I didn't know you sold them? Not on your website.


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## bradsbrew

Batz said:


> Mine needs regular defrosting as well. In fact reading this, I checked last night and like I you defrosted mine as well.
> I also had mine set to 1C, so this morning changed to 4C and plugged the gas line hole. Really a little surprised it freeze's up at 1C with the only opening the small gas line hole. I had no trouble with my old chest freezer conversions.
> 
> Brad could you post a link to the calibration video please?
> 
> Batz


Glad i am not the only one. On the keg king site, if you click on the basic kegerator they have "usefull videos" in the description.
Edit- This is a link to all of keg kings youtube vids http://kegking.com.au/brewing-turorials


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## Batz

bradsbrew said:


> Glad i am not the only one. On the keg king site, if you click on the basic kegerator they have "usefull videos" in the description.
> Edit- This is a link to all of keg kings youtube vids http://kegking.com.au/brewing-turorials


Yes watched that, I'll give it overnight for the temperature to settle down.
After 8-9 hours I believe mine is reading around 2-3C lower than the setting. Interesting, I could have had it set to around -2C?

Glad you posted this mate. :beerbang:

Batz


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## Batz

bradsbrew said:


> You told him tasted nice too didn't you Martin.
> I didn't know you sold them? Not on your website.


He's got some in the shop Brad, for those special Hervey Bay folk.


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## bradsbrew

Batz said:


> Yes watched that, I'll give it overnight for the temperature to settle down.
> After 8-9 hours I believe mine is reading around 2-3C lower than the setting. Interesting, I could have had it set to around -2C?
> 
> Glad you posted this mate. :beerbang:
> 
> Batz


Looks like mine is running 2c less than the temp display as well.


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## TidalPete

bradsbrew said:


> Looks like mine is running 2c less than the temp display as well.


I had this trouble with my Series 3 when it first arrived & fixed it via the pdf below.
Might work with the Series 4 or it might not?
Worth a go I reckon. 

View attachment Series_3_Temp_Modification.pdf


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## bradsbrew

Thanks Pete, the series 4 has the calibration feature so the display temp can be adjusted + or -.


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## HBHB

bradsbrew said:


> You told him tasted nice too didn't you Martin.
> I didn't know you sold them? Not on your website.


I think I said something akin to " I am in awe " not sure if he thought I was talking about the dead eel mounted in the shed, the beer or the Chad Morgan music.


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## Brewseph

Hi Everyone,

Stumbled onto this forum as I have been trolling through the net getting inspiration to make the decision between Keezer and KK4.

I am in a position to do either but want to limit the costing's where possible.

I will be utilizing a 3 Tap flooded Cobra font with Kinglok adaptors which I will mount onto either the KK4 or Keezer. The Taps will be Intertap from KK also.

I am hearing a lot of good arguments for both the Kegerator and Keezer options but nothing that has tweaked my nipples enough to make me run out and order the required equipment just yet.

I will be building a bar inside my garage and where I am living the garage temp can hit the late 30's to mid 40's in summer. I will be putting the bar near a door and was planning on these stupidly hot days to crack the back door and let the heat out that way.

My question is, which option do people think is the better one for someone in my position? I want to do this once and do it right and not have to muck around defrosting regularly and all that. I would love a set and forget option (as much as possible).

The other thing I was contemplating was an additional Controlled Fermentation Chamber/Box set up next to either the Keezer or Kegerator. If I went the Keezer option I was going to get a KK font fan and set it up inside, then run the pipework through the collar and into the Fermentation Chamber, this would be attached to a temp controller to switch the fan on and off at desired temp but also will circulate air inside the keezer when on.

If I went kegerator I was thinking of getting the second plain Jane KK4 (no taps, tubes or anything).

Has anyone done any of these options? which one seems the most likely to succeed or give best results.

Thanks in advance.


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## Rocker1986

You must live near Parliament House to have that much hot air near your house 

The keezer option sounds a better one in that circumstance; it'll likely have better insulation and ability to chill down inside to combat those types of high ambient temperatures.

I'm not sold on the idea of running a fan pipe for a fermentation chamber... it'd be probably better to just get another fridge cheaply and set it up with its own temp controller and have it as its own separate unit. No use pumping cold air out of your keg fridge, even if it is intermittently.


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## Brewseph

Hahahaha yeah pretty close. I'm far enough away from Parliament House that I don't get sprayed with the s%*t but close enough to get the hot wind.

Do you think its worth getting a frost free freezer? I was looking at getting one from good guys brand new to give me longer life and a warrantee.

Good thought though on the fermentation chamber, I never really thought about the adverse affects of drawing that precious air away from the liquid gold filled kegs. the keezer also allows me to attach a pump and bucket on the inside of the unit to be able to circulate the cold water through the flooded font.

I did have another option and that was to install the bar outside on the alfresco, this obviously gets lots more air circulation and is under shelter however there is a considerable dust build up that occurs, due to the dry conditions and all the building around Canberra at the moment, which is why I decided inside the garage. Have you or anyone done an outdoor keezer or kegerator and if yes what were the draw backs and/or advantages. Which position (Garage or Outside) is better suited?

Thanks for the advice too. big help in clearing a narrowed mind.


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## Rocker1986

I reckon frost free would make life a lot easier. A small computer fan mounted somewhere inside the keezer to move air around in it is a good idea too.

I have a cobra flooded font and also use a pump and cold water through it. It's not as nice as having below freezing point glycol being pumped through it, but it's better than doing nothing at all. I just use a small bilge pump from Whitworths (no affiliation yadda yadda), and it works really well. The first one died recently and it really made a difference to the amount of beer wasted to foaming on first pours, not having that chilled water running through the font.

My kegerator is set up outside on the back deck as there's no room elsewhere. I actually really like it there now, especially when I have a couple of mates over and the beer is right there on tap near the table and chairs etc. Dust is no problem here but the afternoon sun can be; I've set up a barrier with reflective stuff on the opposite side to block the sun out from hitting the taps and font, and the fridge actually as it shields the whole thing. The sun is probably the only disadvantage really, but reasonably easily fixed.


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## Brewseph

I have just spoken to Keg King and they said out on the Alfresco is the best option in my case for the Kegerator and also said they are getting ready to release Kegerator Covers, which I thought was a great idea.

They did mention that there has been some issues of Kegerators frosting in hot temperatures but these instances are isolated, so I am torn again now.

The lazy part of me thinks, "Just get the Kegerator and have all the work done already," the brewer and beer drinker says do the Keezer.

If I drill through the lid of the freezer, I am not in any danger of hitting coils or coolant lines am I?

Back to the drawing boards


----------



## Rocker1986

Not sure about lids of chest freezers, but if I was building a keezer I'd just go the collar route and stick the taps on that. It keeps the beer lines and shanks and whatever colder all the way to the tap a lot easier than an external font does.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Brewseph said:


> They did mention that there has been some issues of Kegerators frosting in hot temperatures but these instances are isolated, so I am torn again now.
> 
> The lazy part of me thinks, "Just get the Kegerator and have all the work done already," the brewer and beer drinker says do the Keezer.
> 
> If I drill through the lid of the freezer, I am not in any danger of hitting coils or coolant lines am I?
> 
> Back to the drawing boards


From what I have read, the people that have posted about issues with kegerators frosting live in tropical regions like Qld with higher humidity issues. These tend to be solved (from my reading of others posts) by ensuring gaps like the gas line hole are sealed up.

I just went through the same decision process as you (build keezer/buy KK Kegerator). I did the figures, I looked and nearly bought a chest freezer (until they doubled the price upon my inquiry. F**ing rude b*stards). I then re-did the figures, based on SS taps and shanks and realised that for about the same money (or only slightly more depending on the cost of the second hand freezer), I wouldn't have to stuff around with a build, second hand freezer (with worries on how long would it last etc, etc..), so I bit the bullet and bought the SS 3 tap Kegerator 4. It arrived yesterday, so can't comment on its abilities, but the taps/drip tray on top, font fan, and inbuilt temp control were another selling point for me My decision was based on the quantity of beer I was going to brew/drink and I future proofed by getting the third tap (for only $34 more, I couldn't justify not getting it really). If you plan on having 4 or more taps then the decision is easy really. Food for thought.

Question for kegerator users: I have gone with the 4mm beer line and KK recommend 1.5-2m for flow control. I have put the tap height, pressure etc through a couple of beer line calculators (this one and the spreadsheet linked to this AHB article) that come up with about 1.1-1.2 metres of 4mm line for 2.5 V/CO2 in 19L corny. Should I just go for 1.5 m to be on the safe side? or do others have the experience that 2 m is the best compromise for when one uses higher carbed beers of 3.5 V/CO2 or more.


----------



## dammag

.

Question for kegerator users: I have gone with the 4mm beer line and KK recommend 1.5-2m for flow control. I have put the tap height, pressure etc through a couple of beer line calculators (this one and the spreadsheet linked to this AHB article) that come up with about 1.1-1.2 metres of 4mm line for 2.5 V/CO2 in 19L corny. Should I just go for 1.5 m to be on the safe side? or do others have the experience that 2 m is the best compromise for when one uses higher carbed beers of 3.5 V/CO2 or more.




What type of fittings are you going to use with the 4mm line?

I bought some 4mm ID line from KK and tried to use it with John Guest fittings. The OD of the line is around 7.7mm and on my beer line I found that if the line wasn't dead straight into the fitting it would leak. Like when I closed the fridge door and the coil of line puts some pressure on the fitting.

Haven't had this problem with John Guest or Valpar line. Both of which measure in at 8mm OD.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Mostly barbed disconnects, though I am going to use a couple of push on fittings (from Keg King). I was hoping that the OD would be 8mm as advertised, but will check. Thanks for the heads up, as I will keep an eye on these connections especially.

Any advice re beer line length? Go for the calculated 1.1-1.3 m or be conservative and go 1.5 or 2 m?


----------



## dammag

When I gave the 4mm line a go I started with around 3m because I wanted to start long and shorten it until I got the performance I wanted.

At 3m the thing hardly even poured so I would suggest starting at 2m and shortening from there.

I didn't bother experimenting with shortening the line as I was too worried about leaks so just went back to my 5mm ID Valpar line.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Thanks for the advice Dammag. I'll go with 1.5 m (sort of forced too as KK sent through only 5 m of 4mm that I ordered extra for something else). The "4mm" line I requested for the beer line turned out to be 5mm, which must be a mistake as they sent the normal amount of 5mm also, so I have about 21 m of the stuff. So the 5mm will be used for gas and keg transfer lines and the 5m of 4mm will be used for the 3 x lengths of beer line. 2 x 1.5m and one at 2m and see how I go from there.


----------



## peteru

If you have Flow Control Intertaps, you can probably go with whatever line length gives the neatest fit. It's always easier to shorten the line.

Why not try an experiment and hook up same length of 4mm and 5mm line to two different FC taps? Let us know what the differences are, if any.


----------



## Jack of all biers

No FC taps. I couldn't see the point in spending the extra money (justify) if I could get the line lengths right. I've got the standard SS Intertaps. I went with 2 x 1.5 m lengths and 1 x 1.1 m (for English Ales and Stouts), which left me with a spare 2 m if I ever want to put a Weisse on tap (unlikely as I enjoy pouring from a bottle and I feel it tastes better from the bottle as opposed to having it on tap). Although you never know when I might get into a highly carbed Belgian (beer that is :lol: )


----------



## Jack of all biers

I've put my Kegerator Series 4 together now and am just going through the inevitable pressure testing procedures (read headaches. A story for another thread). I went back through this thread and realised there weren't many pics of peoples setups. So I got the phone out and snapped away as a picture tells a 1000 words.I forgot to take photos until I was almost finished, but you will get the idea without the 'million photos for dummies, step by step approach'.

I made some improvements to the font insulation in an effort to try and make it a bit more efficient. Just used some double sided foil insulation I had. Cut to size, rolled and sealed together with some duct tape. I left the foam that came with it in there as it would provide extra insulation as intended, but I wanted to improve things a bit.




Inserted and drew where the holes were with a texta, removed and rough cut out the holes.



Getting the shanks in wasn't as hard as it looks, as the insulation, being flexible, just pushed back and once the nuts were tight was pushed over the outer part of the shank.




Capped off with some more rough cut insulation and sealed with some duct tape for better efficiency. The duct taped cap will be easy to remove if I need to get in there for some reason (leaks etc).




Unit setup complete from the front



and back, with 5kg tank mounted on the unmodified mounting bracket. The gas line is split with a Tee and has a shut off valve going into the unit and a long line with disconnect to use for high pressure 'Ross Method' carbs and carbing bottles of water/pre-mix whiskey and whatevers etc. This means the fridge doesn't need to be opened and the internal pressure is not upped, when I force carb something externally.




Internally there is a 2 way (later can be a 3 way) splitter screwed to the roof near the glass rack holes. I figured they have pre-drilled holes for the glass rack on both sides, so there's likely no refrigerant lines running through the top of the fridge.



keg fits in front of the splitter, but would go underneath if I wanted it to.

I have a Tee prior to the splitter, with a gas disconnect leading down, so that at the moment I have 3 disconnects for 3 kegs, but later I can put another valve on the splitter and have 4 gas disconnects. This is so I can have a mini keg in the back, sitting on the compressor hump connected to the rear most disconnect.



Anyway, I hope it helps someone some day, or gives some ideas.

Now I just need to find a good solution to plug the hole for the gas line going into the fridge. I've seen Bradsbrew used blue tack, but I was hoping for other ideas of things people have used.


----------



## bradsbrew

I initially put my 3 way gas manifold in the fridge but have now placed it outside as it makes it easier to turn gas supply off to individual kegs when needed without opening the door plus i found it a bit difficult to get my fat hands in there with 3 kegs.
3 gas lines easily fit through the gas hole.


----------



## peteru

+1 for manifold mounted to the outside of the fridge. Just pull out the plastic plug hole thingie and you'll easily fit 3 gas lines through the hole drilled in the back of the fridge. You could probably squeeze in 4 gas lines if you need to. I sealed the gaps around the gas lines by stuffing in some packing foam.


----------



## Rocker1986

+2 to the manifold on the outside. I have a series 3, and while I started with those T-splitter things they just became a PITA. I have a four way manifold that sits on the outside of the fridge held on with double sided tape. 3 of the lines go through the back into the kegs (had to remove the plastic sleeve from the hole to fit them, as the power lead for my water pump to the flooded font goes through there too) and the fourth one is the spare mainly for purging kegs/pressurising for cleaning if not running through the tap, and the very rare occasion that I do a quick carbonation.


----------



## not2oldru

peteru said:


> +1 for manifold mounted to the outside of the fridge. Just pull out the plastic plug hole thingie and you'll easily fit 3 gas lines through the hole drilled in the back of the fridge. You could probably squeeze in 4 gas lines if you need to. I sealed the gaps around the gas lines by stuffing in some packing foam.


Is this a series 4 ?So you just pull the plug out with pliers or something like that?


----------



## peteru

Yes, series 4.

I can't quite remember if it was threaded or pulled straight out, but I am pretty sure I did not require any tools to get it out. Just grabbed it with my fingers.


----------



## blink471

If I can just ask a question about getting the 3 tap system... Im no expert in gas fittings so bare with me. With the regulator that is supplied it hopefully comes with a spitter like seen in other posts photos. But do people find this a problem because as I understand it all 3 taps then have to be the same pressure with this regulator? Or do you reduce pressure to individual kegs by reducing opening/closing with valve handles? But then you dont know exactly what the pressure is without a gauge. I like the idea of control over each keg.. Is it a problem to anyone or is it fine?


----------



## Grott

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but without either extra 2 gauges/pressure control and outlets connected to the existing regulator or a manifold that you shut off to particular kegs/taps and adjust pressure accordingly, the pressure will be the same for each tap. Alternatively you could have taps with flow controls and run each tap differently.


----------



## blink471

Grott said:


> Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but without either extra 2 gauges/pressure control and outlets connected to the existing regulator or a manifold that you shut off to particular kegs/taps and adjust pressure accordingly, the pressure will be the same for each tap. Alternatively you could have taps with flow controls and run each tap differently.


Yeah thought so.. was just wondering as I get a little more experienced in brewing with different styles... serving pressure may vary say from a pilsner to a stout? Thanks for your reply mate.


----------



## gazza1055

Hi all jack of all biers i have the kk kegerator 4 if you are only using one gas line in like i did all i done was got the black plastic piece that screws into the white piece that fits in the fridge was got a 8m drill bit and drilled a hole threw the center of the black plastic and put my gas line threw it and screwed in back in the white piece. hope this helps Gazza happy brewing.


----------



## peteru

When I bought my 3 tap KK4 it came with two T pieces so that you can split the gas line. No control whatsoever over individual kegs with that kind of setup. I never actually used it that way. I also ordered the 4 way manifold so that I could shut off each individual keg and have an external gas line for other tasks, such as purging and pressurising freshly filled kegs destined for conditioning. That kind of setup is relatively inexpensive and gives you some control over each keg. It requires a little bit of thinking and fiddling in practice, but it's workable. If you want more control than that, you would need to go for multiple regulators. You can get low pressure regulators that can be hoked up in series. It gets very expensive if you do that and I suspect also very complex, bulky and unsightly.


----------



## blink471

peteru said:


> When I bought my 3 tap KK4 it came with two T pieces so that you can split the gas line. No control whatsoever over individual kegs with that kind of setup. I never actually used it that way. I also ordered the 4 way manifold so that I could shut off each individual keg and have an external gas line for other tasks, such as purging and pressurising freshly filled kegs destined for conditioning. That kind of setup is relatively inexpensive and gives you some control over each keg. It requires a little bit of thinking and fiddling in practice, but it's workable. If you want more control than that, you would need to go for multiple regulators. You can get low pressure regulators that can be hoked up in series. It gets very expensive if you do that and I suspect also very complex, bulky and unsightly.



So they give you just a tee piece ok... Maybe I should do a similiar thing and buy a manifold and mount at the back... and go from there. An extra outlet would be handy for gassing soda water or purging.


----------



## neal32

Hey guys,

My old keezer died and I've just finished setting up my new series 4 with the SS intertap taps. I mounted the gas manifold outside and fed three gas lines through and sealed with blu tack. Seems solid so far and a test pour this morning was good, if not a little fast, but good carbonation (with 5mm valpar line). I didn't drink it because I had to goto work so tonight will be the final test.

A couple of q's. The fridge and fan are louder then I expected, do you guys leave the fan running the whole time or only before pouring a beer? Also what temperature do you guys set the fridge to? I used 4 degrees on my old keezer and have got it set to that.


----------



## blink471

neal32 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My old keezer died and I've just finished setting up my new series 4 with the SS intertap taps. I mounted the gas manifold outside and fed three gas lines through and sealed with blu tack. Seems solid so far and a test pour this morning was good, if not a little fast, but good carbonation (with 5mm valpar line). I didn't drink it because I had to goto work so tonight will be the final test.
> 
> A couple of q's. The fridge and fan are louder then I expected, do you guys leave the fan running the whole time or only before pouring a beer? Also what temperature do you guys set the fridge to? I used 4 degrees on my old keezer and have got it set to that.



I just set mine up too.. I set it to 3 degrees.. Tasted first beer last night and seemed right. I also wondered about fan and i turned mine off overnight, and will put on when serving. I only have one keg in at the moment but when I have more might be best with circulation to have on. Not sure myself yet.


----------



## fungrel

neal32 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> My old keezer died and I've just finished setting up my new series 4 with the SS intertap taps. I mounted the gas manifold outside and fed three gas lines through and sealed with blu tack. Seems solid so far and a test pour this morning was good, if not a little fast, but good carbonation (with 5mm valpar line). I didn't drink it because I had to goto work so tonight will be the final test.
> 
> A couple of q's. The fridge and fan are louder then I expected, do you guys leave the fan running the whole time or only before pouring a beer? Also what temperature do you guys set the fridge to? I used 4 degrees on my old keezer and have got it set to that.



My fan died in the arse after the first year, don't bother with it now. Hasn't frozen up yet. Bought an identical fan and plugs etc to rewire the font only to find out that the wiring is stuffed, not the fan. Not impressed. 

Check the temperature with a container of water and STC. My series 4 is out by 4c and froze my kegs solid when i first started using it.


----------



## neal32

fungrel said:


> My fan died in the arse after the first year, don't bother with it now. Hasn't frozen up yet. Bought an identical fan and plugs etc to rewire the font only to find out that the wiring is stuffed, not the fan. Not impressed.
> 
> Check the temperature with a container of water and STC. My series 4 is out by 4c and froze my kegs solid when i first started using it.



4 degrees lower I'm assuming? What do you have your temp set to? 8?


----------



## blink471

The model I got you can calibrate it. I know the older models you couldnt do it.


----------



## fungrel

neal32 said:


> 4 degrees lower I'm assuming? What do you have your temp set to? 8?



7


----------



## peteru

I calibrated my KK4 when it arrived. It was 1C out - running too cold. Normal setting is in the 6-8C range depending on what beers I'm serving. Most of the time the fan is off. I leave the fan on for the first day or so after putting a warm keg in. If I know I will be serving beers to guests, I'll put on the fan an hour or so beforehand. It's not critical, but it can help reduce foaming when there is a 5-10 minute gap between the beers you pour. Basically, if the lines get warm, then CO2 will come out of solution in the warm beer and contribute foam until this is cleared and the lines cool down again. By having the fan on and cooling the lines and font, this becomes less of a problem.


----------



## Bribie G

peteru said:


> I calibrated my KK4 when it arrived. It was 1C out - running too cold. Normal setting is in the 6-8C range depending on what beers I'm serving. Most of the time the fan is off. I leave the fan on for the first day or so after putting a warm keg in. If I know I will be serving beers to guests, I'll put on the fan an hour or so beforehand. It's not critical, but it can help reduce foaming when there is a 5-10 minute gap between the beers you pour. Basically, if the lines get warm, then CO2 will come out of solution in the warm beer and contribute foam until this is cleared and the lines cool down again. By having the fan on and cooling the lines and font, this becomes less of a problem.


Especially if your KK is in a living area such as a dining room that's kept pretty warm all year round.


----------



## jonnir

Reading this thread just helped me decide to buy KK series 4.

Who did everyone buy from? Best deal out there atm? Everywhere dating out of stock


----------



## Slug

jonnir said:


> Reading this thread just helped me decide to buy KK series 4.
> 
> Who did everyone buy from? Best deal out there atm? Everywhere dating out of stock


A few places I've spoken to in last few days are waiting on delivery of stock


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reliably informed today, Australia day week end special on the KK series 4, only $329.00, pick up from Keg King.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reliably informed today, Australia day week end special on the KK series 4, only $329.00, pick up from Keg King.



One tap?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Everything bar the taps, with the price war cranking up the taps could end up cheap too.


----------



## Lobby Lobster

blink471 said:


> So they give you just a tee piece ok... Maybe I should do a similiar thing and buy a manifold and mount at the back... and go from there. An extra outlet would be handy for gassing soda water or purging.



I would recommend a manifold. I don’t have one yet (will buy soon). I just set it up with the T- splitters and it’s manageable but a bit messy. Plus moving clamped lines around does make me a little nervous of pulling something too hard and creating a leak.


----------



## lost at sea

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reliably informed today, Australia day week end special on the KK series 4, only $329.00, pick up from Keg King.



did you call your other mates to see if they will beat that price?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

lost at sea said:


> did you call your other mates to see if they will beat that price?


Never hurts to ask, price wars need ammo.


----------



## bbqzookeeper

Got any sure things down at the track?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

bbqzookeeper said:


> Got any sure things down at the track?


Best tip I can give is don't gamble. 'Even a fool can make money, only a wise man can keep it'.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reliably informed today, Australia day week end special on the KK series 4, only $329.00, pick up from Keg King.



Partially correct. According to Facebook it's this weekend. Includes everything but the font and taps.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Still a bargain.


----------



## Jack of all biers

"Christmas" the band seems to sum up these incessant posting behaviours and it's not only aimed at WEAL.


----------



## Kenf

blink471 said:


> Yeah thought so.. was just wondering as I get a little more experienced in brewing with different styles... serving pressure may vary say from a pilsner to a stout? Thanks for your reply mate.


I actually run two lines from two ball posts on the outside so I can connect two regulators (a normal one and a Soda Stream or a Nitro bottle) then on the inside I run I T piece so I can gas 3 kegs.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Nullnvoid said:


> Partially correct. According to Facebook it's this weekend. Includes everything but the font and taps.


When you go to the site and actually price everything needed including lines, clamps, tap handles tap accessories etc, it comes to about the same price as a fully setup Kegorator


----------



## Nullnvoid

Neil Buttriss said:


> When you go to the site and actually price everything needed including lines, clamps, tap handles tap accessories etc, it comes to about the same price as a fully setup Kegorator



Yeah I didn't go to the effort of doing that but was wondering if that might be the case. 

Suck a lot of people in though I would imagine.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I think the reasoning is, for the fridge at $329, is for those who already have everything to go, or for those wanting a fridge for fermenting. A 3 tap kegerator series 4, with the full Monty is $488.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Good deal if your just after a fridge but, I guess


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Price war seems to be going strong, can't say I agree with it but good for the punters.
3 tap kegerator series 4 now $478.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Price war seems to be going strong, can't say I agree with it but good for the punters.
> 3 tap kegerator series 4 now $478.



That's a good price. I just got a 3 tap from Kegland for $495 and I thought that was an excellent price


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> That's a good price. I just got a 3 tap from Kegland for $495 and I thought that was an excellent price


You may be able to buy them in your local milk bar shortly the way the prices are heading, " Two Mars bars and, oh and I will take a kegerator too"


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> You may be able to buy them in your local milk bar shortly the way the prices are heading, " Two Mars bars and, oh and I will take a kegerator too"




Which might I just say, I have just checked and is down to $485!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Just left there, I think the price movements are being generated so fast they can't keep up with the price on the site.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Just left there, I think the price movements are being generated so fast they can't keep up with the price on the site.



No I meant kegland. The one I bought for $495 is down to $485. So it seems they are trying to beat each other. As you say, possibly not sustainable or good, but certainly good for people wanting to buy.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> No I meant kegland. The one I bought for $495 is down to $485. So it seems they are trying to beat each other. As you say, possibly not sustainable or good, but certainly good for people wanting to buy.


No it isn't good for any other retailers, cuts their margins which from I understand are slim enough in the retail side of brewing equipment.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> That's a good price. I just got a 3 tap from Kegland for $495 and I thought that was an excellent price


Prices are still coming down 3 tap now $460 at Keg King, where will it end..


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Prices are still coming down 3 tap now $460 at Keg King, where will it end..



That is ******* nuts


----------



## bbqzookeeper

Any insight @wide eyed and legless when they will reach their very lowest?
Very close to pulling the trigger!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

bbqzookeeper said:


> Any insight @wide eyed and legless when they will reach their very lowest?
> Very close to pulling the trigger!


The price war continues, once one is started there can be no surrender.


----------



## Nullnvoid

$460 at Kegland too. Should have waited a couple of weeks before I pulled the trigger!

I thought $495 was a damn good price. I mean it was, but the week before it was $535. And now $460. I say again, that's insane


----------



## bbqzookeeper

At this rate, they'll pay me to take one off their hands in about 3 weeks time.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

We could do a bulk buy, that could knock even more dollars off.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Count me inI was going to get one anyway, but if we can get a better deal.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

malt and barley blues said:


> Count me inI was going to get one anyway, but if we can get a better deal.


Well I was only joking, but the possibility is there when one is trying to under price the other.


----------



## Kenf

It really is annoying! It just makes the punters feel like we are being ripped off! I remember I negotiated a tender for a service provided to my employer and managed to save $250 k per year. Same provider, same service - did we feel ripped off! So much so some (but not us) are starting a class action!
I guess what I am saying is just how much margin is on these products?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Kenf said:


> It really is annoying! It just makes the punters feel like we are being ripped off! I remember I negotiated a tender for a service provided to my employer and managed to save $250 k per year. Same provider, same service - did we feel ripped off! So much so some (but not us) are starting a class action!
> I guess what I am saying is just how much margin is on these products?


Not as much as I thought there would be, for me a GM would be 75%, wholesale would be 50% giving the retailer a 100% return on his investment. In the home brewing retail industry this is not the case they may pick up on hops grain yeast etc but on hardware which have been bought from a importer / wholesaler the margins are slim, one reason I am not in favour of price wars. Everyone suffers apart from the punters. No one is being ripped off, margins are being cut, same overheads are there, just a reduced profit.


----------



## tanked84

If only these joints had ss brewtech stuff for a price war, I’d be happy!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

There is a stainless steel fermenter in the wings..


----------



## Kenf

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not as much as I thought there would be, for me a GM would be 75%, wholesale would be 50% giving the retailer a 100% return on his investment. In the home brewing retail industry this is not the case they may pick up on hops grain yeast etc but on hardware which have been bought from a importer / wholesaler the margins are slim, one reason I am not in favour of price wars. Everyone suffers apart from the punters. No one is being ripped off, margins are being cut, same overheads are there, just a reduced profit.


I guess only those who bought at the higher price? I know this generates sales for the two protagonists, but when you see this aggressive price cutting you might think to yourself “well I will delay buying one of these as the price will be lower next week!”
Makes you wonder - is there a Kegerator 5 coming?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

That is a good bit of 'wonder'


----------



## Kenf

Sorry mate! That’s just me being a bit cynical - once upon a time I used to see the world through rose coloured glasses.
These days ?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Kenf said:


> Sorry mate! That’s just me being a bit cynical - once upon a time I used to see the world through rose coloured glasses.
> These days ?


I think there could be a reason to clear them out, not sure what it is though.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Triple tap now $445, manufacturers and punters will be loving it.


----------



## Nullnvoid

It's just getting stupid now.

Kegland still at $460


----------



## Madscientist86

On keg kings facebook page: Keg King $329 Series 4 Fridge Sale on again this Friday and Saturday 18&19 January at our retail outlet only! Includes CO2 regulator, cylinder bracket, castor wheels, guard rail, drip tray and shelf. No pre-orders, no online orders. Just come in and drag one away for your home bar, mancave or cafe.


----------



## Kenf

Wow I wish I didn’t have to get the car serviced!


----------



## BrewskiBrewing

I pounced on the Fridge only setup. Unfortunately I didn't have the coinage for the Triple Tap set up just yet. It appeared they were overstocked as they were staked to the roof pretty much


----------



## malt and barley blues

I went down today fully intending to get the basic model for $329, ended up with the 3 tap for $445, saves a lot of mucking around.


----------



## krz

I have bought 2 of the buggers, both from KK, the last one I got a discount. (the 1st one was left outside too long and died)

They are very noisy, they gurgle a lot. Also, they frost up.

For me, I will next time buy a cheapo freezer and convert.


----------



## bbqzookeeper

krz said:


> I have bought 2 of the buggers, both from KK, the last one I got a discount. (the 1st one was left outside too long and died)
> 
> They are very noisy, they gurgle a lot. Also, they frost up.
> 
> For me, I will next time buy a cheapo freezer and convert.



Hey @Nullnvoid, how does your new Kegerator sound? Would love to know your thoughts/opinion.


----------



## Nullnvoid

bbqzookeeper said:


> Hey @Nullnvoid, how does your new Kegerator sound? Would love to know your thoughts/opinion.



It was something that really concerned me before I bought it and was a real sticking point. But to be honest it's not as bad as I was expecting it to be. Yes it makes noise and especially with the fan going it's noticable. 

But compared to our food fridge and bar freezer it's not really much noisier


----------



## Greg Donohue

Does everyone's back plate fill up with ice and needs defrosting every 3 months ?
Massive pain.


----------



## zoigl

My KK kegerator (4) is situated inside an insulated shed beside the door, so no restrictions to airflow, and it does not get any direct heat from the sun, but I have noticed that the left side (facing as you pour) gets really hot at times and there appears to be insulation dripping onto the floor.
Although it is supposed to take 3 kegs, I usually only run 1 keg.
I run my kegerator at about 6 c.
This is my 3rd kegerator from KK and this one is about 3 years old.


----------



## scomet

wide eyed and legless said:


> Triple tap now $445, manufacturers and punters will be loving it.


It just shows you how much mark up a lot of this gear has, ie. from when I purchased mine..........


----------



## krz

Greg Donohue said:


> Does everyone's back plate fill up with ice and needs defrosting every 3 months ?
> Massive pain.


yes weekly


----------



## Greg Donohue

krz said:


> yes weekly


Shite isn't it.


----------



## Kenf

Yep mine from KL does the same.


----------



## PeterF

Kenf said:


> Yep mine from KL does the same.


Yes mine did the same so I put an old computer fan in the kegerator on the compressor hump and pointed it at the condensor plate. I passed the power lead thru the gas line hole and have the adapter outside t he fridge. The plate no longer freezes up.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

scomet said:


> It just shows you how much mark up a lot of this gear has, ie. from when I purchased mine..........


I believe that it is the wholesalers taking a loss in this price war, retailers even more, as Keg Land is owned by two Chinese businessmen maybe the mentality is turnover, which is not unusual in China. A companies worth is in the net profit for money spent. It would be worthwhile for both sides to keep that in mind.


----------



## fungrel

krz said:


> yes weekly


Pipe cleaner. Clean the outlet on the water collection tray.

Haven't had to remove ice for months.


----------



## fungrel

wide eyed and legless said:


> I believe that it is the wholesalers taking a loss in this price war, retailers even more, as Keg Land is owned by two Chinese businessmen maybe the mentality is turnover, which is not unusual in China. A companies worth is in the net profit for money spent. It would be worthwhile for both sides to keep that in mind.


Chinese looking or Chinese nationality?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

fungrel said:


> Chinese looking or Chinese nationality?


You would have to ask them.


----------



## krz

Nullnvoid said:


> It was something that really concerned me before I bought it and was a real sticking point. But to be honest it's not as bad as I was expecting it to be. Yes it makes noise and especially with the fan going it's noticable.
> 
> But compared to our food fridge and bar freezer it's not really much noisier



The fan's not that loud, its the gurgling that really irates me.
I have the kegerator set to -2. and that creates this really annoying gurgling sound. I assume everyone elses does that? Does it?


----------



## krz

fungrel said:


> Pipe cleaner. Clean the outlet on the water collection tray.
> 
> Haven't had to remove ice for months.



Theses a water collection tray?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Down to $430 from Keg-King and $440 from Kegland.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Can't help thinking about Status Quo.


----------



## huez

krz said:


> The fan's not that loud, its the gurgling that really irates me.
> I have the kegerator set to -2. and that creates this really annoying gurgling sound. I assume everyone elses does that? Does it?



Yeah mine does the same thing. Even at these cheap prices i wouldn't buy another one if this one died. The main board fried after the first month, it's noisey, inefficient and cycles way to often for way to long. The only way i could stop it from frosting over was to stop using the fan and put one of those damp rid things in the back of it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Could be as Kenf suggests new model on the way in, why the determination to clear stock?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Nullnvoid said:


> Down to $430 from Keg-King and $440 from Kegland.




Its important to note that the packages that we are selling are also not the same. Some of the differences are:

*KegLand uses this new MK4 regulator*
https://www.kegland.com.au/co2-gas-regulator-mk4-dual-gauge-multi-gas-type-30.html

The main benefits of the new model of regulator are:
1. The pressure relief valve is the new improved design so it can easily be used safely with various different pressure vessels such as the FermZilla.
2. The actual gauges themselves are triple scale and they are stronger than the previous gauges. We did get some customers say that the previous MK3 model had gauges that were too easy to get damages so this was upgraded.
3. The regulator has improved mounting holes at the back for a number of accessories that we will be releasing to go with these regulators.

*EVABarrier tubing*
The beer line is the double walled EVABarrier beer line while the "other supplier" is now using extruded polyethylene beer line that is not suitable for beer. Some good reading material you might want to refer to here can be found in this draft quality manual that has been issued by Brewers Association in America:
http://www.draughtquality.org/wp-content/uploads/DBQM17.pdf
The main benefits of EVABarrier beer line are:
1. It includes a barrier layer making the beer line less permeable (especially when compared with PE). This means your beer stays fresher for longer. 
2. This beer line has accurately controlled outer diameter meaning it works better with many of the push in fittings including the new duotight fittings.
3. Its completely plasticiser free and BPA free. This is explained in this video here:


*Better Taps*
We use better stainless steel taps that will work more reliably than our competitors taps.

*duotight Fittings*
The new kits that we sell include duotight fittings that make the kegerator easier to install and setup and also easier to change later down the track.


So as much as the fridge body looks identical it's not possible to say both kegerator kits are the same.


----------



## Nullnvoid

KegLand-com-au said:


> Its important to note that the packages that we are selling are also not the same. Some of the differences are:
> 
> *KegLand uses this new MK4 regulator*
> https://www.kegland.com.au/co2-gas-regulator-mk4-dual-gauge-multi-gas-type-30.html
> 
> The main benefits of the new model of regulator are:
> 1. The pressure relief valve is the new improved design so it can easily be used safely with various different pressure vessels such as the FermZilla.
> 2. The actual gauges themselves are triple scale and they are stronger than the previous gauges. We did get some customers say that the previous MK3 model had gauges that were too easy to get damages so this was upgraded.
> 3. The regulator has improved mounting holes at the back for a number of accessories that we will be releasing to go with these regulators.
> 
> *EVABarrier tubing*
> The beer line is the double walled EVABarrier beer line while the "other supplier" is now using extruded polyethylene beer line that is not suitable for beer. Some good reading material you might want to refer to here can be found in this draft quality manual that has been issued by Brewers Association in America:
> http://www.draughtquality.org/wp-content/uploads/DBQM17.pdf
> The main benefits of EVABarrier beer line are:
> 1. It includes a barrier layer making the beer line less permeable (especially when compared with PE). This means your beer stays fresher for longer.
> 2. This beer line has accurately controlled outer diameter meaning it works better with many of the push in fittings including the new duotight fittings.
> 3. Its completely plasticiser free and BPA free. This is explained in this video here:
> 
> 
> *Better Taps*
> We use better stainless steel taps that will work more reliably than our competitors taps.
> 
> *duotight Fittings*
> The new kits that we sell include duotight fittings that make the kegerator easier to install and setup and also easier to change later down the track.
> 
> 
> So as much as the fridge body looks identical it's not possible to say both kegerator kits are the same.




And for all these reasons, I went for your kegerator over Keg-King......just two weeks too early it would seem!

My point was that they are very similar prices, but I think with your product developments and inclusions it's worth the extra $10

P.S Can I return mine for a refund and then purchase again at the cheaper price please?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

wide eyed and legless said:


> I believe that it is the wholesalers taking a loss in this price war, retailers even more, as Keg Land is owned by two Chinese businessmen maybe the mentality is turnover, which is not unusual in China. A companies worth is in the net profit for money spent. It would be worthwhile for both sides to keep that in mind.



I am not quite sure where you get your information but KegLand is owned by Australian citizens, operated in Australia citizens and employs Australian citizens.

The KegLand business model has nothing to do with nationality so not sure why Chinese comes into it. The objective for us here is to provide value to our customers by:
1. Continually developing new products that simply work better, have more features, or are more robust.
2. Making our operations more efficient by improving our logistical efficiencies, order process, automating grain weighing, pickup lockers, improving software integration, etc. These efficiencies are what enable us to price more competitively.

Luckily KegLand is run by people who love and enjoy the hobby and the profit or "worth" of the company is not relevant to us. To be perfectly honest we will probably not make profit for a long time due to the large amount that is invested in new product development and this doesn't bother us at all.


----------



## Kenf

KegLand-com-au said:


> I am not quite sure where you get your information but KegLand is owned by Australian citizens, operated in Australia citizens and employs Australian citizens.
> 
> The KegLand business model has nothing to do with nationality so not sure why Chinese comes into it. The objective for us here is to provide value to our customers by:
> 1. Continually developing new products that simply work better, have more features, or are more robust.
> 2. Making our operations more efficient by improving our logistical efficiencies, order process, automating grain weighing, pickup lockers, improving software integration, etc. These efficiencies are what enable us to price more competitively.
> 
> Luckily KegLand is run by people who love and enjoy the hobby and the profit or "worth" of the company is not relevant to us. To be perfectly honest we will probably not make profit for a long time due to the large amount that is invested in new product development and this doesn't bother us at all.


Wow guys! You must have a big bankroll then!
And I agree, nationality has nothing to do with how a business operates!
I have worked for companies owned by Anglos, Italians, Filipinos & Japanese & they all had good and bad practices (I will never sell to an overseas company was my favourite - just before we were sold to the Filipinos).
I guess as long as your business practices comply with Australian law - it’s fine!
My kegerator V4 is a bit gurgling and seems to struggle keeping temperature and in retrospect I sometime wish that when I was down sizing, I kept my Keezer and sold the kegerator (I learnt how to put shanks straight through the front on the day I sold it! My main bug bear with font mounted keezers was lifting the lid!)
But the products you sell are innovative and the price point is brilliant!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

KegLand-com-au said:


> I am not quite sure where you get your information but KegLand is owned by Australian citizens, operated in Australia citizens and employs Australian citizens.
> 
> The KegLand business model has nothing to do with nationality so not sure why Chinese comes into it. The objective for us here is to provide value to our customers by:
> 1. Continually developing new products that simply work better, have more features, or are more robust.
> 2. Making our operations more efficient by improving our logistical efficiencies, order process, automating grain weighing, pickup lockers, improving software integration, etc. These efficiencies are what enable us to price more competitively.
> 
> Luckily KegLand is run by people who love and enjoy the hobby and the profit or "worth" of the company is not relevant to us. To be perfectly honest we will probably not make profit for a long time due to the large amount that is invested in new product development and this doesn't bother us at all.


Never said that the owners, Sam and Huong are not Australian citizens, just said that as Chinese businessmen in my experience, seem to always go for turnover by selling cheap. Now if the explanation that the fittings you use in your kegerator are allegedly superior to the ones used by Keg King, surely it would have been easier to say that prior to going into a price war and trying to match prices.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Kenf said:


> Wow guys! You must have a big bankroll then!
> And I agree, nationality has nothing to do with how a business operates!
> I have worked for companies owned by Anglos, Italians, Filipinos & Japanese & they all had good and bad practices (I will never sell to an overseas company was my favourite - just before we were sold to the Filipinos).
> I guess as long as your business practices comply with Australian law - it’s fine!
> My kegerator V4 is a bit gurgling and seems to struggle keeping temperature and in retrospect I sometime wish that when I was down sizing, I kept my Keezer and sold the kegerator (I learnt how to put shanks straight through the front on the day I sold it! My main bug bear with font mounted keezers was lifting the lid!)
> But the products you sell are innovative and the price point is brilliant!



Thanks for that Kenf. So perhaps we should have some Keezer options? Keezers are particularly good if you want to have lots of kegs (4 or more). I am not sure they look as good and lifting the kegs over the side of the freezer is not always that easy. They do consume less power which is one nice aspect.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

wide eyed and legless said:


> Never said that the owners, Sam and Huong are not Australian citizens, just said that as Chinese businessmen in my experience, seem to always go for turnover by selling cheap. Now if the explanation that the fittings you use in your kegerator are allegedly superior to the ones used by Keg King, surely it would have been easier to say that prior to going into a price war and trying to match prices.



You can call it a price war if you like. At the end of the day we are a very efficient business and if we can continue to operate on tight margins while still being able to put time and money into product development then we are happy to keep doing this forever and it's a very sustainable business. If you are to talk to the shareholders, staff, and management we are all quite positive about the direction that we are going especially given that we have only just got to 1 year old (we started in Jan 2018).

If you are looking for a Kegerator I don't know why anyone would bother getting gear that is clearly not as good if faced with pretty much the same price tag. So I guess we have made our customers decision as easy as possible.


----------



## mattyg8

oh Keezer options sounds good


----------



## krz

Thinking of selling mine, it was bought March 2018 and will replace it with a Keezer, mainly due to the noise problem. The gurgling aspect annoys me as I can hear if from the loungeroom, if that could be rectified I'd keep it.


----------



## tanked84

KegLand-com-au said:


> Thanks for that Kenf. So perhaps we should have some Keezer options? Keezers are particularly good if you want to have lots of kegs (4 or more). I am not sure they look as good and lifting the kegs over the side of the freezer is not always that easy. They do consume less power which is one nice aspect.


Keezer would definately be of interest.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

KegLand-com-au said:


> You can call it a price war if you like. At the end of the day we are a very efficient business and if we can continue to operate on tight margins while still being able to put time and money into product development then we are happy to keep doing this forever and it's a very sustainable business. If you are to talk to the shareholders, staff, and management we are all quite positive about the direction that we are going especially given that we have only just got to 1 year old (we started in Jan 2018).
> 
> If you are looking for a Kegerator I don't know why anyone would bother getting gear that is clearly not as good if faced with pretty much the same price tag. So I guess we have made our customers decision as easy as possible.


I do like. I don't see what else you can call it, one side drops the price the other side drops the price, etc etc, generally known as a price war.
If I thought I had a superior product there would be no way I would be dropping any price, stand firm, and give an explanation WHY your product is superior, it would be good business practice to explain to the consumer what is better about your product than what the opposition has to offer.


----------



## Kenf

KegLand-com-au said:


> Thanks for that Kenf. So perhaps we should have some Keezer options? Keezers are particularly good if you want to have lots of kegs (4 or more). I am not sure they look as good and lifting the kegs over the side of the freezer is not always that easy. They do consume less power which is one nice aspect.


No I think keezers belong in the realm of those who build them! 
Yep great on power and once I got rid of my corny kegs, manual handling is not a problem! I have to say I was really pleased once I worked out how to put the shanks through the body and not use a collar!
If you were building them commercially you would know where the cooling and heat transfer lines are (in mine it turned out they ran horizontally!)
I think you could make a very attractive unit. But anyway way off topic now!


----------



## enoch

Kenf said:


> Yep great on power and once I got rid of my corny kegs, manual handling is not a problem!


Curious what you are using instead. 
I’m pressure transferring from a kegmenter so could bypass the full keg lift.
Another option?


----------



## Kenf

I use 10 litre and 5 litre mini kegs - got rid of the cornys. I now generally make smaller batches so I can experiment!


----------



## Nullnvoid

I was going to ask the same question. I just assumed you were just tipping the beer into the keezer directly and tapping it from that. 

Bit tricky for different styles all mixed together but I'm not one to judge!


----------



## Kenf

No not quite mate


----------



## malt and barley blues

Went to see if I could get another kegerator bargain today for the holiday house, already got a font and tap spare. Did my usual pleading poor, pensioner bit, got them down to $299. Only stumbling block was, that was for 50. Anyone want 49. Please.


----------



## Maheel

malt and barley blues said:


> Went to see if I could get another kegerator bargain today for the holiday house, already got a font and tap spare. Did my usual pleading poor, pensioner bit, got them down to $299. Only stumbling block was, that was for 50. Anyone want 49. Please.



i will take one delivered to BNE @$299


----------



## malt and barley blues

Maheel said:


> i will take one delivered to BNE @$299


I was only joking, but I hadn't thought of a bulk buy, anyone interested in a bulk buy? Probably a bit late after the sales they have been having on the kegerators but worth a shot. Any other interstaters we could see if they will ship.


----------



## d3vour3r

What is everyone's thoughts on the door insulation? My KL4 condensates alot and it seems to fluctuate a but in temp. The brissy beast makes it struggle. I keep it outside on my balcony (covered).
I think I'm going to get some formshield from Clark's rubber and put it on the door in the inside. Hopefully helps.


----------



## Jack of all biers

The series 4 does need the gas tube inlet stuffed with blue tac or similar to assist with insulating it, especially in humid climates like Brisbane. The font is another source of temperature exchange that is exposed. I have insulated my font with additional insulation (it is a KK [pre-KL], but they are the same) as per post #85 of this thread. It definitely makes a difference and I have just this week added more to some gaps in the top and bottom of the font and sealed it up with duct tap at the bottom as I noticed the bottom of the font was colder than the rest. The font is where I'd look prior to adding insulation to the door.

EDIT - air getting in alot causes more condensation. So things like not plugging the gas inlet or opening the door often and letting in humid air won't help. Condensation on the outside of the fridge shouldn't be occurring (except the font, which the insulation trick minimises nicely). If that is what you are observing then something is amiss.


----------



## DrJez

Geez you guys can crap on.. Starting to wonder if all members are actually a bunch of nannas. What happened to answering the question!? Lol. How long are everybody's beer lines on the series 4's?


----------



## Nullnvoid

DrJez said:


> Geez you guys can crap on.. Starting to wonder if all members are actually a bunch of nannas. What happened to answering the question!? Lol. How long are everybody's beer lines on the series 4's?



We don't come here for serious answers. 

But in answer to your question I just cut mine down and I think they are about 1.5m long. 

I used a calculator I found online to give me the length. They might be too long still but I had such a slow pour and it's now betterer.


----------



## bbqzookeeper

Nullnvoid said:


> We don't come here for serious answers.



Where else is there to go?

Searching for Aussie Craft could take you to a paddlepop and glue store...


----------



## Grmblz

DrJez said:


> Geez you guys can crap on.. Starting to wonder if all members are actually a bunch of nannas. What happened to answering the question!? Lol. How long are everybody's beer lines on the series 4's?


Hey it's not rocket science (as some would have you believe) first off it depends on the amount of carbonation you have in your beer, then what your pipe diameter is, and thirdly how long you are prepared to wait for that glass off goodness, be aware that commercialy we need to fill glasses as quickly as possible whilst retaining a decent head =$, you don't have that pressure (pun intended). Start with 2mtrs on your fizziest beer and if you get a glass of foam extend it to 3 mtrs or more (consider reducing the diameter of your pipes), if it takes forever then chop 500mm off and repeat, do not be surprised if you have a 1 mtr run or less for lightly carbonated ales and 2 mtrs ish for lagers/wheat beers etc. Balancing in a commercial enviornment is very different to what is required in a home keezer/whatever situation, decide what type of "beer" you're going to serve and the level of fizz you require then cut you line accordingly. Personally I use about 2 mtrs on everything except English ales (1 mtr and wait lol) better to wait a bit for the glass to fill than wait for the foam to subside, hope this helps. cheers G


----------



## jollster101

Grmblz said:


> Hey it's not rocket science (as some would have you believe) first off it depends on the amount of carbonation you have in your beer, then what your pipe diameter is, and thirdly how long you are prepared to wait for that glass off goodness, be aware that commercialy we need to fill glasses as quickly as possible whilst retaining a decent head =$, you don't have that pressure (pun intended). Start with 2mtrs on your fizziest beer and if you get a glass of foam extend it to 3 mtrs or more (consider reducing the diameter of your pipes), if it takes forever then chop 500mm off and repeat, do not be surprised if you have a 1 mtr run or less for lightly carbonated ales and 2 mtrs ish for lagers/wheat beers etc. Balancing in a commercial enviornment is very different to what is required in a home keezer/whatever situation, decide what type of "beer" you're going to serve and the level of fizz you require then cut you line accordingly. Personally I use about 2 mtrs on everything except English ales (1 mtr and wait lol) better to wait a bit for the glass to fill than wait for the foam to subside, hope this helps. cheers G



Hey Grmblz

What ID are your lines to be running at 2M and 1M lengths respecitively?


----------



## Grmblz

jollster101 said:


> Hey Grmblz
> 
> What ID are your lines to be running at 2M and 1M lengths respecitively?


They're all 4mm EVABarrier from kegland, be aware that different pipe material will have different flow resistance although I think this is only really relevant in a commercial setting where pipe runs are many mtr's long, so if you have some other pipe I doubt it will make much difference. Also if you have barbed tails swap them out for duo-tight/john guest type fittings it makes life a lot easier when fine tuning your pipe lengths. I've just measured my pipes and I have 1 @ 900mm (real ales 4-6 psi) 5 @ 2-2.5mtr's ish (everything else 12-15 psi) and a 3.5mtr for emergencies (overcarbed stuff ups) As I said before I much prefer a slightly slower pour than waiting for half a glass of foam to settle, just experiment by chopping off or adding 500mm at a time untill you get a pour that suits you and the style of beer you're serving, pipe is cheap compared to the beer that might be wasted. cheers G


----------



## jollster101

Grmblz said:


> They're all 4mm EVABarrier from kegland, be aware that different pipe material will have different flow resistance although I think this is only really relevant in a commercial setting where pipe runs are many mtr's long, so if you have some other pipe I doubt it will make much difference. Also if you have barbed tails swap them out for duo-tight/john guest type fittings it makes life a lot easier when fine tuning your pipe lengths. I've just measured my pipes and I have 1 @ 900mm (real ales 4-6 psi) 5 @ 2-2.5mtr's ish (everything else 12-15 psi) and a 3.5mtr for emergencies (overcarbed stuff ups) As I said before I much prefer a slightly slower pour than waiting for half a glass of foam to settle, just experiment by chopping off or adding 500mm at a time untill you get a pour that suits you and the style of beer you're serving, pipe is cheap compared to the beer that might be wasted. cheers G


Cool, thanks.

I am also using 4mm EVA Barrier from Kegland but don't have duotight or john guest fittings. At this stage unless there is a very cheap option to swap a barb for a compatible duo tight fitting I will just need to go with a trial and error solution as I don't want to have to replace all the shanks.

I take it you must have a separate regulator to be running different pressures depending on whats in the keg.


----------



## Grmblz

jollster101 said:


> Cool, thanks.
> 
> I am also using 4mm EVA Barrier from Kegland but don't have duotight or john guest fittings. At this stage unless there is a very cheap option to swap a barb for a compatible duo tight fitting I will just need to go with a trial and error solution as I don't want to have to replace all the shanks.
> 
> I take it you must have a separate regulator to be running different pressures depending on whats in the keg.


No worries, I'm not sure what "very cheap" is but you could just insert one of these in each of your pipes https://www.keg-king.com.au/catalog/product/view/id/114/s/push-in-joiner-8mm-x-8mm/category/48/ if you install it on a 100mm tail from your keg disconnect you can then trim the pipe easily and when you have it to your liking remove the joiner and tail and connect the trimmed pipe to the disconnect, the fewer joins in pipe work, the better IMHO. Yes I run a dual reg it's similar to this https://www.kegland.com.au/dual-pressure-mk4-regulator-type-30.html although mine is a BOC unit (a lot more expensive but bought years ago before the cheap chinese stuff was available), one line goes to the low pressure real ale disconnect and the other goes to a 6 port manifold which has these attached for fine tuning, https://www.kegland.com.au/in-line-regulator.html it's a cheaper alternative than dedicated reg's although you still need https://www.kegland.com.au/8mm-5-16-push-in-pressure-gauge-0-40psi.html and https://www.keg-king.com.au/catalog/product/view/id/112/s/push-in-tee-equal-8mm/category/48/ and I'm not sure how reliable they will be long term compared to proper reg's, I've only been using them for a few months. Just a note on "push in connectors" I've found the cheap ones to be unreliable, ok for getting your line length correct but be wary about using them in a permanent position, the pressure guage "T" for example, genuine (not ebay) John Guest have proven themselves over the years although they're not cheap, Duo-tight are more reasonably priced and so far no issues but time will tell, also I find the Duo's a bit of a pain to get off the pipe whereas the JG's are easy. Hope this helps, cheers G


----------



## DrJez

How much power does the series 4 use guys. Anyone know?

Edit, 85w. So at 26 cents p/-kw hr that equates to: 0.53 cents per day, or $50 per quarter, $200 a year. Plus gas and bits 'if' it was using the full 85w all the time. Because it turns off a bit it's likely to be using less than this, especially in cool climates. Not so much in tropical environments. Mine seems to run (always warm here) majority of the time. It's a rare occasion I walk past and it's not running

So the more you drink, more you save. Or at least that's what I'll tell myself.. Lol

I have 5mm lines installed premade by the store at just under 4ft long which I assumed would be too short but the pour has actually been good. Not too fast, not too slow and foam has a healthy and average head at 10psi. Considering the recommended length of 5mm id is 4m I'm doing alright. Though carb is a tadd low at the moment, I keep bumping it up day by day but nothing's happening

My front door is always very wet with condensation, have only had it a few days and icing up at the bottom already (removed this yesterday, most was ice in the drip tray inside fridge icing up the drain hole) I'm still in the midst of trying to calibrate it. My glass of water always has a layer of ice on top but keg pours are a few degrees above what the glass is. May try putting the glass in a stubby cooler to see if it contacting surface is making the difference (kegs have rubber feet)


----------



## Nullnvoid

DrJez said:


> How much power does the series 4 use guys. Anyone know?
> 
> Edit, 85w. So at 26 cents p/-kw hr that equates to: 0.53 cents per day, or $50 per quarter, $200 a year. Plus gas and bits 'if' it was using the full 85w all the time. Because it turns off a bit it's likely to be using less than this, especially in cool climates. Not so much in tropical environments. Mine seems to run (always warm here) majority of the time. It's a rare occasion I walk past and it's not running
> 
> So the more you drink, more you save. Or at least that's what I'll tell myself..



I pay 18.9cents/kw and my Kegland one is in a tiny 2.7x1.5m shed. At the height of summer when it would have been over 50degrees in the shed the power bill was no more than $1.60 a week. 

If that helps.


----------



## DrJez

Nullnvoid said:


> I pay 18.9cents/kw and my Kegland one is in a tiny 2.7x1.5m shed. At the height of summer when it would have been over 50degrees in the shed the power bill was no more than $1.60 a week.
> 
> If that helps.



Thanks for sharing man, are you absolutely sure about this? Seems low is all but I hope you're correct


----------



## Nullnvoid

DrJez said:


> Thanks for sharing man, are you absolutely sure about this? Seems low is all but I hope you're correct



I'm as sure as I can be . I have a power meter attached to the kegerator so unless I haven't set it up correctly it should be accurate


----------



## Jack of all biers

DrJez said:


> My front door is always very wet with condensation, have only had it a few days and icing up at the bottom already (removed this yesterday, most was ice in the drip tray inside fridge icing up the drain hole) I'm still in the midst of trying to calibrate it. My glass of water always has a layer of ice on top but keg pours are a few degrees above what the glass is. May try putting the glass in a stubby cooler to see if it contacting surface is making the difference (kegs have rubber feet)



Sounds like yours is out of calibration a bit or you have it set at 2C or lower and aren't running the fan much. I only found that mine would ice up under 4C setting with no fan running and only on the back cooling element. It only iced up underneath below 2C (again with no fan). I run the fan 24/7 now and there is no ice, though the outside of the front door is cool to the touch (or is this because I've been checking it now that you mentioned you issue). I don't have condensation on the outside of my door though I don't live in the tropics. I guess it'd be ideal if the fan ran only when the compressor turned on and when pouring beers, but you get what you pay for.


----------



## DrJez

Cheers man, the manual states most styles should be served between 1 and 2.5 degrees. Not happening with mine yet.. Keg beer is 4 degrees, glass of water -2, temperature showing on fridge 2.

I like the neat appearance of the series 4 and it's a good introduction for first timer keggers who don't know what they're doing yet in terms of hooking up, but can't say I'm a fan of the noise or lack of productivity in performance much. My $160 brand new chest freezer would fit more in, and is very efficient and quiet in comparison, though isn't frost free and ofcourse loads from the top

I'm sure I'll get it dialled in shortly, just a matter of making small adjustments. Will update once I have it sorted


----------



## DrJez

Nullnvoid said:


> I'm as sure as I can be . I have a power meter attached to the kegerator so unless I haven't set it up correctly it should be accurate



Wow man, actually never heard of such a device!


----------



## dkril

DrJez said:


> Wow man, actually never heard of such a device!


Something like this.

https://www.jaycar.com.au/mains-power-meter/p/MS6115

Plenty of different brands out there (though half of them are probably the same units with a different sticker)

Quite handy for working out just what is using the power when the bills suddenly come in higher than expected.


----------



## DrJez

dkril said:


> Something like this.
> 
> https://www.jaycar.com.au/mains-power-meter/p/MS6115
> 
> Plenty of different brands out there (though half of them are probably the same units with a different sticker)
> 
> Quite handy for working out just what is using the power when the bills suddenly come in higher than expected.



Incredible! Thanks mate, will pick one of these up for sure


----------



## Nullnvoid

DrJez said:


> Incredible! Thanks mate, will pick one of these up for sure



They are pretty handy. Especially when trying to convince the finance minister that you can afford a kegerator 

Mine is similar to that but a different brand. But they all work the same.


----------



## DrJez

Just a question guys, thinking of buying a 3 way manifold so I can essentially run kegs as normal and carb the third one (newb to kegging I guess this will work?)

Once two are carbed I can just turn off their gas supply and only direct co2 to the carbing keg. If this does in fact sound like a good idea, where's best to mount it on the series 4?


----------



## Skillz

I have a 4 way manifold and keep 3 kegs on the go. I have 1 line with a couple of meters on it with a quick disconnect i use for carbing and cleaning/purging duties.
Works fine. I dont trust my lines not to leak so apart from carbing up i turn the gas off and will usually poor a few beers before regassing.


----------



## Skillz

To answer your question more directly, yes close the valves and carb away[emoji38]


----------



## DrJez

Update, I installed the 4mm lines this afternoon. Went in at 3m each and I'm not real impressed to be honest. The 1m 5mm poured pretty darn quick, but nothing to worry about. I just thought that as it carbs further there might be problems with excessive head. The 3m 4x8mm lines are too slow and form just as much head funnily enough. I'll just cut them down to 1.5m and re-clamp the duotight liquid line fittings.

Also noticed a strange gas sound using these, shuddering and not perfectly smooth like before. Probably doesn't matter but it annoys an OCD freak like myself, lol

I checked temp today with the glass of water on cavity sitting over night in a stubby cooler. Tested -1 so I calibrated the unit to the same temp when in idle mode which happened to be -5 degrees off actual in my instance. No more condensation at all so far on the door.. Good.

I find running the fan full time just keeps the compressor running so at my place at least it's best to leave it off when not drinking

I have a 2-tap and have only had it up and running since Monday, already gave in and ordered the bits to convert into a 3-tap. Ha, how's that. I just could not help myself. A previous poster saying "better off looking at it than for it" must have struck a chord. 3 different beers is way better than two, it's no contest and why the heck wouldn't you really? I need a pils, pale and weizen at all times, man. Also hear the larger volume of cool liquid inside the less running costs(?) hopefully that's true


----------



## Jack of all biers

Because you haven't got everything calibrated yet (temp only just by the sounds of it), I would suggest shortening the 4mm lines to 2 metres first. You can always shorten again if you find it too slow for your liking, but it's harder to lengthen once cut. The ideal length for your system all depends on the temp you want to set it at and the gas pressure you want your beer to be carbonated at, so you may find a bit of experimentation to start with until you find what you like. 

I started with 2 x 1.5 metre and 1 x 1.1 metre (for Stouts with Stout spout) lengths at 4C and 75kpa (11 psi) and found at times it was too quick and flattened the beer with larger head than I wanted (which disappeared faster than I wanted due to most of the gas coming out on pour). I have recently changed my system to 3 x 2 metre 4mm ID lines. Currently I have the reg set at 100kpa (15 psi) less 15-20kpa (2-3 psi) for the non-return valves I have, so say 82-89kpa (12-13 psi) actual pressure to the keg, with the temp set at 6C. So far so good. I get about 1-1.5cm foam on first pour with nice small bubbles from the base of my glasses (head master) and the 425 ml glass is filled in 10-12 seconds (not timed it, but roughly).


----------



## DrJez

Tks Jack. I already cut to 1.5.. But seems ok so far. 6 degrees sounds quite warm?


----------



## Jack of all biers

Depends what you put on tap. 6C is the happy medium for lazy me. Malty ales do well served at 8-10C and German lagers are good at around 5-6C. I found 4C just too cold to get the most aroma and flavour from my beers, so tried 8C, then 6C. Super dry thin lagers are best at 2C or lower, but that is almost never on my keg list.


----------



## DrJez

True I guess it all depends. Aroma is certainly subdued before warming to vent but here in the tropics that doesn't take long at all. 5 minutes without a stubby cooler and you're drinking room temperature amber so the colder you can serve, the better. Anything over about 4 degrees seems too warm but I can imagine most places that's completely fine


----------



## jollster101

Jack of all biers said:


> Sounds like yours is out of calibration a bit or you have it set at 2C or lower and aren't running the fan much. I only found that mine would ice up under 4C setting with no fan running and only on the back cooling element. It only iced up underneath below 2C (again with no fan). I run the fan 24/7 now and there is no ice, though the outside of the front door is cool to the touch (or is this because I've been checking it now that you mentioned you issue). I don't have condensation on the outside of my door though I don't live in the tropics. I guess it'd be ideal if the fan ran only when the compressor turned on and when pouring beers, but you get what you pay for.


Hey JoaB (or anyone else for that matter)

Can you provide a link to the calibration instructions for the fridge as I haven't done this and suspect mine is out. I did manage to find time to get 3 beers fermented, kegged and serving but calibration .......gotta bit lost in the mix. Must have my priorities wrong, or right depending on how you look at it.

I tried to find a video that I saw a link for in one of the multitude of posts I have read but that didn't go anywhere. For the life of me I haven't been able to find anything since for some reason.

I should go through this step I suppose as I am trying to balance everything up at the moment with temp / line lengths / carbonation.

Cheers


----------



## Jack of all biers

A lot of the KK videos seem to have been taken down/expired or something since the split. I still have my original instructions and all the useful info (like calibration and actual set up) is referred to in You Tube video links - not helpful if these videos aren't maintained.

Calibration check is fairly easy. Use a jug of water (or glass, but larger volume is less susceptible to temp fluctuations) with a reliable thermometer in it (I emphasis reliable and if you're not sure, test it in an ice slurry. It should read 0C. In boiling water it should read 100C (at or near sea level)). Put it on the floor of the kegerator near to the temp probe (in the S4 it's on the right hand side as you look in halfway up the wall behind a vent cover. Leave the water and thermometer in for a day or two (KK instructions were to leave for two days, but with the fan on or with a small volume of water a day should do it). After that time, compare the temperature of the kegerator prior to you opening the door to that of the thermometer in the water. If they're the same, no adjustment is needed.

If the kegerator is out by a couple of degrees then the temp probe reading needs adjusting. This is easy. Press and hold both the Temp up and down buttons simultaneously until the display shows "SC" (looks like 5C, but I assume stands for 'Set Calibration'). Then press the F/C button once and the display will change to 0 or -1 or what ever it's current adjustment is (mine is currently -2C after my calibration). Then press the up or down buttons to adjust the temperature calibration. It will flash a few times then adjust the reading on your display. So for example if your water temp is 2C and your display is 4C with your current calibration setting at 0C then you'd need to adjust it to -2C. After flashing a few times on -2C, it will quickly show 4C (I think this is to show the old setting), then change to 2C. The kegerator will continue to run to the previously set temp and the calibration only affects the reading of the probe, not what temp you set the fridge at (so if it was 4C before the calibration it will continue to be 4C). Calibration only effects the way the electronics adjusts the signal being sent by the probe (I hope this last bit makes sense).


----------



## DrJez

Here's a short video too


----------



## jollster101

Thanks JoaB and DrJez......


----------



## DrJez

Questions

1. At 14psi I'm finding my beers undercarbed. Why is this, it's the upper limit of what I've been reading? 

2. I calibrated with a glass of water in stubby cooler to 0 degrees and adjusted accordingly. Though, my kegged beer is pouring at around 7 degrees(?) a warm glass and font, but a tadd too warm for up here in the tropics. What gives?


----------



## DrJez

Dear Dr. Jez, I have some answers for you Sir, sorry to keep you waiting (oh, that's ok, it's better late than never. Thank you very much!)

At 14psi, my pours were coming out too fast, with already overcarbed beer. Well, why did it come out undercarbed if it was overcarbed? Because the co2 was being forced out if solution in the heavy pour. To test this for yourself, purge kegs and drop regulator down to 4psi and pour. Is your beer carbed? If so your problem is overcarbed, or lines too short

I ordered longer lines but actually don't think I'll use them. 11psi is pouring great now at 2 degrees due to colder beer holding more co2. I have 5 foot lines btw


----------



## Nullnvoid

Great you seem to have it figured out. Sorry I'm still new to using a kegerator myself so not much help!


----------



## ben fleming

okay , i can need a hand with this as well. my lines are 5mm and about 4 metres .

After i poor the 3rd or 4th beer it would appear that they are almost flat . any tips


----------



## ben fleming

i serve at 11 to 14 psi and carb at 30 psi for 24 hours , i also just have a kegerator set up. i would post the photo i have of the set up but can't upload


----------



## Joshed1

After reading through this whole thread, I'm a bit confused, was considering buying a Kegerator but the few people who have had noise and other issues are kinda putting me off. Are there many that are really happy with their purchase? It's quite a substantial outlay and at the moment I just throw a tap on top of my keg in my fermenting/cold crash fridge. The Kegerators look nice and I have a big party coming up but still on the fence.


----------



## Grmblz

Seeing as you already have gas and a reg, $60 gets you a tap, shank, and disconnect. why not just drill a hole or two in your fridge.door, use the long 150mm shanks they act like a heat sink and help keep the taps cold. A 300ltr or bigger fridge (fridge only no freezer section) will accomodate 4 kegs and can be had off gumtree for $100, no thermostat mods needed just drill 4 holes in the door and one in the side for gas in.. I can recommend a 300ltr Westinghouse Freezamate ;-)


----------



## krz

Joshed1 said:


> After reading through this whole thread, I'm a bit confused, was considering buying a Kegerator but the few people who have had noise and other issues are kinda putting me off. Are there many that are really happy with their purchase? It's quite a substantial outlay and at the moment I just throw a tap on top of my keg in my fermenting/cold crash fridge. The Kegerators look nice and I have a big party coming up but still on the fence.



Heh Josh,

I was one of those ppl who complained about the noise.
I have owned 2 kegerators, a series 3 and a series 4.
My kegerator sits adjacent to my kitchen, and the next room is the lounge.
The gurgling sound I used to complain about, I dont hear any more.
Every now and then, I hear the kegerator kick in.
I guess Im just immune to it now.

My advice. If you plan on locating the kegerator near where you normally reside, maybe consider something else. If its more than 10m away, then the kegerator is ok. My series 3 had issues, the series 4 hasnt had a problem.


----------



## Ditts

krz said:


> Heh Josh,
> 
> I was one of those ppl who complained about the noise.
> I have owned 2 kegerators, a series 3 and a series 4.
> My kegerator sits adjacent to my kitchen, and the next room is the lounge.
> The gurgling sound I used to complain about, I dont hear any more.
> Every now and then, I hear the kegerator kick in.
> I guess Im just immune to it now.
> 
> My advice. If you plan on locating the kegerator near where you normally reside, maybe consider something else. If its more than 10m away, then the kegerator is ok. My series 3 had issues, the series 4 hasnt had a problem.


I have a 3 series for fermenting and a 4 series for dispensing. What issues did you have with the 3?


----------



## beer gut

I have got a series 4 in my lounge room right next to my couch, I’m in an apartment so it’s the only place I can put it really. The noise was noticeable at first but it’s really not to bad and got used to it quickly, now I hardly ever notice it and it serves me cold beer.


----------



## Reg Holt

For some reason I thought you lived in a porta cabin.


----------



## beer gut

Reg Holt said:


> For some reason I thought you lived in a porta cabin.


----------



## krz

Ditts said:


> I have a 3 series for fermenting and a 4 series for dispensing. What issues did you have with the 3?


The series 3 control panel, its a stick on panel, failed me several times. When it fails, it wont turn on. A slight amount of liquid will cause it to fail.


----------



## Timbo

Mine lives in the garage. It’s definitely a gurgler. Not awful but I’m glad it’s not in my lounge room. It’s no worse than my 10 year old mistral bar fridge I ferment in. Must be similar refridgerant.


----------



## Madscientist86

I have a series 3, most of the noise was from the internal fan, i disconnected and removed it, don't hear any noise now and no noticable difference in maintaining temperature.


----------



## Timbo

Madscientist86 said:


> I have a series 3, most of the noise was from the internal fan, i disconnected and removed it, don't hear any noise now and no noticable difference in maintaining temperature.


Yeah, I’m pretty sure they changed refridgerant for the series 4.


----------



## Joshed1

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick one up, although my lounge room is adjacent to my dining room(open plan) and this is where it will live so hopefully I become immune to the noise. I like the idea of converting as I already have a fridge down stairs, but I use that for fermenting and cold crashing. I would like something clean looking and all my DIY builds end up working well but looking pretty messy. 

Any big changes between the KK and KL kegerators? Only thing I can see is KL being +$15 but you get push in fittings and a different beer line. Lastly, is it worth getting flow control taps or do you find cutting to length pretty easy and a non issue?


----------



## peteru

+1 to better beer line
+1 to good quality push-in fittings (but you need good quality beer line)
-1 to flow control taps (You're better off getting normal taps and balance the line. Push-in fittings will make it easy to adjust the line length if you need to make changes. Or you can try the flow control keg disconnects.)

KK used to have shitty wheels on the early series 4, but I believe they have fixed that. I think KL always had decent wheels.

In terms of noise, the series 4 is on par with all modern refrigeration systems. Not as quiet as a GE fridge from the 80s, but neither is the Westinghouse fridge I got around the same time as the series 4.


----------



## CKK

peteru said:


> +1 to better beer line
> +1 to good quality push-in fittings (but you need good quality beer line)
> -1 to flow control taps (You're better off getting normal taps and balance the line. Push-in fittings will make it easy to adjust the line length if you need to make changes. Or you can try the flow control keg disconnects.)
> 
> KK used to have shitty wheels on the early series 4, but I believe they have fixed that. I think KL always had decent wheels.
> 
> In terms of noise, the series 4 is on par with all modern refrigeration systems. Not as quiet as a GE fridge from the 80s, but neither is the Westinghouse fridge I got around the same time as the series 4.


Keg King series 4 has Australian approvals. We stand behind the product if any problems.


----------



## Grmblz

CEO Keg King said:


> Keg King series 4 has Australian approvals. We stand behind the product if any problems.


That's because Australian law says you have to. No brownie points for complying with the law.


----------



## CKK

Grmblz said:


> That's because Australian law says you have to. No brownie points for complying with the law.


That is right but other suppliers do not. We are the only ones who the Series 4 on ERAC.


----------



## Cian Doyle

I just did a check on ERAC register Kegland has nothing registered including Brewzilla or Robobrew, maybe they are not a responsible supplier?


----------



## peteru

Oh please! Not this again.

Calling out a competitor does not improve the image of a company. And that goes for all suppliers.

It's no better than politicians trying to throw dirt at each other instead of having policies that we can vote for.

If a supplier is doing something illegal, bring it to the attention of authorities and let them deal with it in an appropriate manner.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

peteru said:


> If a supplier is doing something illegal, bring it to the attention of authorities and let them deal with it in an appropriate manner.


Which it has been.


----------



## Grmblz

CEO Keg King said:


> That is right but other suppliers do not. We are the only ones who the Series 4 on ERAC.


So you are suggesting that your series 4 is electrically different to your competitors, if this is the case then you may have a point but if not then registration with ERAC is completely irrelevant, as for warranty all Australian companies/manufacturers have to warrant goods electrical or otherwise, are you saying that your warranty on series 4's exceeds that of your competitors? @ Cian it's a KK thread so mentioning the opposition by name is probably not a great idea, also my understanding is the series 4 base unit is identical from either of these suppliers and it's only the fittings, pipes etc that differ, with the competitor opting for better quality stuff (at a slightly higher price) that being the case the ERAC registration becomes moot. Brewzilla and Robo's are a different story, how did you check btw? and does KK have the Guten registered yet? cos they didn't a little while ago (there's a thread on it) sláinte G


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Cian Doyle said:


> I just did a check on ERAC register Kegland has nothing registered including Brewzilla or Robobrew, maybe they are not a responsible supplier?



I looked for Grainfather (as an example) in all sorts of different names etc. and nothing is registered for that.. 

So what is the deal about this ?


----------



## CKK

Grmblz said:


> So you are suggesting that your series 4 is electrically different to your competitors, if this is the case then you may have a point but if not then registration with ERAC is completely irrelevant, as for warranty all Australian companies/manufacturers have to warrant goods electrical or otherwise, are you saying that your warranty on series 4's exceeds that of your competitors? @ Cian it's a KK thread so mentioning the opposition by name is probably not a great idea, also my understanding is the series 4 base unit is identical from either of these suppliers and it's only the fittings, pipes etc that differ, with the competitor opting for better quality stuff (at a slightly higher price) that being the case the ERAC registration becomes moot. Brewzilla and Robo's are a different story, how did you check btw? and does KK have the Guten registered yet? cos they didn't a little while ago (there's a thread on it) sláinte G


ERAC listing has nothing to do with warranty. It has everything to do with complying with the law. Everything else you mention is irrelevant. If a supplier sells a consumer product that is required to be approved and listed, without SAA approvals then that supplier is breaking the law. The approval is not transferable simply because the product might come out of the same factory. The law is very clear on that. Keg King have had the Guten units registered since the very beginning.


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> I looked for Grainfather (as an example) in all sorts of different names etc. and nothing is registered for that..
> 
> So what is the deal about this ?


It may be that the Grainfather is not a proscribed product. Fridges however are.


----------



## CKK

peteru said:


> Oh please! Not this again.
> 
> Calling out a competitor does not improve the image of a company. And that goes for all suppliers.
> 
> It's no better than politicians trying to throw dirt at each other instead of having policies that we can vote for.
> 
> If a supplier is doing something illegal, bring it to the attention of authorities and let them deal with it in an appropriate manner.


It is not up to Keg King to police this but we are making ever effort to get things right and we believe that our customers have a right to know about this. People forking out good money should be able to rest easy that what they get complies with the regulatory requirements.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> ERAC listing has nothing to do with warranty. It has everything to do with complying with the law. Everything else you mention is irrelevant. If a supplier sells a consumer product that is required to be approved and listed, without SAA approvals then that supplier is breaking the law. The approval is not transferable simply because the product might come out of the same factory. The law is very clear on that. Keg King have had the Guten units registered since the very beginning.



MCH only has three listings current, 2 fridges and the temp controller

Can’t see the Guten?


----------



## Cian Doyle

TheBeerBaron said:


> MCH only has three listings current, 2 fridges and the temp controller
> 
> Can’t see the Guten?


How many have Kegland got? If you are looking for the Grainfather look under Bevie Craft.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Cian Doyle said:


> How many have Kegland got? If you are looking for the Grainfather look under Bevie Craft.



Nothing under Bevie Craft / Bevvie Craft 

I Can't find anything registered under trade name 'Guten' to anyone. Unless it is under another trade name to a different supplier, which then contradicts the above statement about the approval not being transferable !?

Apparently Guten is registered as per above from Keg King CEO.. if it is, I can't find it anywhere and it definitely isn't under MCH Australia. And I am not sure why A grainfather isn't a prescribed device when a Guten is apparently even though it isn't registered.


----------



## Cian Doyle

Definitely there under Bevie Craft, they are listed as responsible suppliers, they only have the stills and the Grainfather under electrical appliances. How many items have Kegland got?


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Cian Doyle said:


> Definitely there under Bevie Craft, they are listed as responsible suppliers, they only have the stills and the Grainfather under electrical appliances. How many items have Kegland got?



Where are you looking, the EESS site? or the ERAC?

Bevie Craft listed on EESS as responsible supplier with multiple pieces of equipment listed (no certificate numbers). They do not appear on the ERAC website at all as far as I can see 

MCH appear on EESS as responsible supplier but with no equipment listed at all however MCH come up on the ERAC with 3 certificates for temp controller & fridge

It's all pretty confusing, I don't know the law so I can't tell what's what but it seems those two sites differ

Also, apparently the Guten is registered, but I can't find it anywhere. And it was stated above that the certifcation isn't transferable so by that logic, it should appear under MCH with the other 2 but it doesn't.


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> Where are you looking, the EESS site? or the ERAC?
> 
> Bevie Craft listed on EESS as responsible supplier with multiple pieces of equipment listed (no certificate numbers). They do not appear on the ERAC website at all as far as I can see
> 
> MCH appear on EESS as responsible supplier but with no equipment listed at all however MCH come up on the ERAC with 3 certificates for temp controller & fridge
> 
> It's all pretty confusing, I don't know the law so I can't tell what's what but it seems those two sites differ
> 
> Also, apparently the Guten is registered, but I can't find it anywhere. And it was stated above that the certifcation isn't transferable so by that logic, it should appear under MCH with the other 2 but it doesn't.


Happy to post you copy of our SAA certificate.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> Happy to post you copy of our SAA certificate.



What is SAA now? How confusing is all this 

I don’t really care to be honest, post it up here

Why doesn’t it appear with your others?


----------



## Reg Holt

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Wow, not even a week back here and slinging shit.....


I think Beer Baron is trying to get his head around electrical appliance conformation laws not slinging shit.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Reg Holt said:


> I think Beer Baron is trying to get his head around electrical appliance conformation laws not slinging shit.


 I'm referring to keg king insinuating kegland don't have compliance for their products. 

The whole compliance thing looks like it's very confusing. I'm sure if there's a problem the authories will sort it out. Sounds like weal has passed on the details.


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> What is SAA now? How confusing is all this
> 
> I don’t really care to be honest, post it up here
> 
> Why doesn’t it appear with your others?


SAA. - Standards Administration Australia. Not sure 60 odd pages will be easy to add here. Not really confusing at all but we


FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Wow, not even a week back here and slinging shit.....


Such as?


----------



## CKK

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> I'm referring to keg king insinuating kegland don't have compliance for their products.
> 
> The whole compliance thing looks like it's very confusing. I'm sure if there's a problem the authories will sort it out. Sounds like weal has passed on the details.


Why is it confusing? Pretty simple that if you need the approval then you get it done and get it right. Its there for good reasons.


----------



## peteru

And this is exactly why this forum is going further down the drain hole.

It's not about brewing anymore, is it?


----------



## Cian Doyle

peteru said:


> And this is exactly why this forum is going further down the drain hole.
> 
> It's not about brewing anymore, is it?


I work for Access Canbera inspecting electrical work, (wiring) I think it is to do with brewing if the units the brewers them selves are using equipment which doesn't meet AU/NZ standards, thats why compliance certificates are in place. Doesn't it seem odd that they have followed the compliance regulations for the EU and USA and are seeming to balk the compliance process here?
This is about safe brewing.


----------



## Nullnvoid

peteru said:


> And this is exactly why this forum is going further down the drain hole.
> 
> It's not about brewing anymore, is it?



See I think this forum is going from strength to strength. Just when I don't think it can get anymore tragic, something new comes along. I mean, inviting Keg-King back so that the two figure heads can passively aggressively duke it out. Bloody genius!

I'm just here for the LOL's


----------



## devoutharpist

I've got series 4 atm and it has been working pretty well, albeit a little noisy at times when it throttles up. 

Thinking of moving it out the the (un-insulated, etc) shed soon though, how do these perform in more extreme climates? During a classic Adelaide heatwave i think the shed might get up to around 50C ambient.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> See I think this forum is going from strength to strength. Just when I don't think it can get anymore tragic, something new comes along. I mean, inviting Keg-King back so that the two figure heads can passively aggressively duke it out. Bloody genius!
> 
> I'm just here for the LOL's


How cerebral of you! Here for the baiting I guess.


----------



## Kenf

Nullnvoid said:


> See I think this forum is going from strength to strength. Just when I don't think it can get anymore tragic, something new comes along. I mean, inviting Keg-King back so that the two figure heads can passively aggressively duke it out. Bloody genius!
> 
> I'm just here for the LOL's


I wonder instead whether it would be better to ban all suppliers?
But I guess that’s how sponsorship works 
Have to say though I have had products from both suppliers and they work!
Both have good customer service, both import some interesting products & in all honesty I will most likely purchase from both again in the future!
Oh well I guess it’s just the way it is -pity!


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> How cerebral of you! Here for the baiting I guess.



Yeah guess I am. I go elsewhere for information. The other place has all the brains trust. 

And for what it's worth I buy from both of you and also a range of other suppliers.

It's just the shit fight that occurs on here amuses me.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> Yeah guess I am. I go elsewhere for information. The other place has all the brains trust.
> 
> And for what it's worth I buy from both of you and also a range of other suppliers.
> 
> It's just the shit fight that occurs on here amuses me.



Well why don‘t you introduce yourself next time you pop in which I know you do. You might find that I am not here for any shit fight and maybe realise that we have more to offer than what you think. Do you really think our brew engineering team has so little ability? You might change your mind when you see what is coming out over the next few months. Anyway I would welcome the chance to speak with you in person to try and understand your views that you air here. Are you up for it?


----------



## devoutharpist

devoutharpist said:


> I've got series 4 atm and it has been working pretty well, albeit a little noisy at times when it throttles up.
> 
> Thinking of moving it out the the (un-insulated, etc) shed soon though, how do these perform in more extreme climates? During a classic Adelaide heatwave i think the shed might get up to around 50C ambient.



Is that what we have become? Legitimate question goes unanswered because everyone is too busy complaining and fighting some battle no one cares about


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> Well why don‘t you introduce yourself next time you pop in which I know you do. You might find that I am not here for any shit fight and maybe realise that we have more to offer than what you think. Do you really think our brew engineering team has so little ability? You might change your mind when you see what is coming out over the next few months. Anyway I would welcome the chance to speak with you in person to try and understand your views that you air here. Are you up for it?



Love too. Got a gas bottle to swap, I'll come be down today at around 12:30-1? Will you be around, I would love to chat.

And for what it's worth, I have never once mentioned here (or anywhere) about the ability of your engineering team. I have no battles with anyone. I shop with the company that will provide the best prices and quality for the gear I need at the time. Or actually, most of the time, it comes down to who has what in stock and when I can get it.

Would love to talk to you in person about what I mean about the "brains trust". Happy to do that today


----------



## CKK

devoutharpist said:


> Is that what we have become? Legitimate question goes unanswered because everyone is too busy complaining and fighting some battle no one cares about



Is it a Keg King unit? If so happy to respond. The series 4 is not really designed for extremes like you mentioned. It is for domestic use and not outdoors. For the price that it is there is now way that it could be made to work in 50 C without stressing the componentry. From memory I think the max ambient quoted by the manufacturer is 35C but I will try to check this later for you. Apologies if I missed your post earlier.


----------



## devoutharpist

CEO Keg King said:


> Is it a Keg King unit? If so happy to respond. The series 4 is not really designed for extremes like you mentioned. It is for domestic use and not outdoors. For the price that it is there is now way that it could be made to work in 50 C without stressing the componentry. From memory I think the max ambient quoted by the manufacturer is 35C but I will try to check this later for you. Apologies if I missed your post earlier.



It is, and thank you. I had a suspicion that might be the case, but am also interested if anyone has an anecdotal evidence from their own use.


----------



## peteru

There is a difference between "anecdotal evidence" of "is it likely to work?" versus "has it been designed to be reliable under those conditions?".

Just because it does an adequate job for three other people does not mean you are not taking a risk operating the unit outside of design parameters. As long as you are on-board with that, it's all good.

BTW: In my experience, most manufacturers do not design products for Australian conditions, where 40-50C ambient operating temperature is to be expected. And that's in all industries.


----------



## Kenf

peteru said:


> There is a difference between "anecdotal evidence" of "is it likely to work?" versus "has it been designed to be reliable under those conditions?".
> 
> Just because it does an adequate job for three other people does not mean you are not taking a risk operating the unit outside of design parameters. As long as you are on-board with that, it's all good.
> 
> BTW: In my experience, most manufacturers do not design products for Australian conditions, where 40-50C ambient operating temperature is to be expected. And that's in all industries.


Mine has been out side at about 38 & it struggled! I guess if you want serious cooling, you need a Keezer!


----------



## DrJez

Had mine probably 7-8 months now and has been difficult to perfect. The back keg the fan blows on must be getting colder than the other two because it's slowly overcarbed.. This kegerator really is getting on my nerves a bit. Whats everyone doing to prevent this? I thought about putting a piece of coroflute over to shield, or perhaps even getting a manifold? It gets hot here in summer so compressor always running during the day, usually says 5 degrees when aiming for 2 now and sides very hot causing more trouble

If I were running just two kegs I'd probably get away with careful placement but not possible with three


----------



## fdsaasdf

DrJez said:


> Had mine probably 7-8 months now and has been difficult to perfect. The back keg the fan blows on must be getting colder than the other two because it's slowly overcarbed.. This kegerator really is getting on my nerves a bit. Whats everyone doing to prevent this? I thought about putting a piece of coroflute over to shield, or perhaps even getting a manifold? It gets hot here in summer so compressor always running during the day, usually says 5 degrees when aiming for 2 now and sides very hot causing more trouble
> 
> If I were running just two kegs I'd probably get away with careful placement but not possible with three


Sounds to me like your back plate is probably frozen, which means it's unable to chill the entire unit to the intended temperature and continues to work very inefficiently. The lines to your back keg are probably partially frozen, which causes the foam that has likely led you to think the beer is overcarbonated.


----------



## DrJez

Well yes you were right, there was a bit of ice built up on the plate so I left it off to thaw for half an hour, now 7hrs later it hasn't gotten cooler than 6 degrees.. Lol this thing. It's warm, but not styfling hot outside. It does cool to 2 overnight but as soon as it begins warming up it stays at 6 all day unfortunately

Line wasn't frozen unfortunately though, just overcarbed pouring foam it seems


----------



## wozzie

If the temp is fluctuating between 2 over night and 6 during the day it is highly likely it is over carbed. Changing from warmer to cooler temps will change your CO2 volumes


----------



## DrJez

Yes, warmer being far less carb. I've used calculators to achieve desired carb at the lowest temp so in reality, should be undercarbed at 5-6


----------



## Grmblz

Unfortunately it's what happens when things are built to a price point and why a converted fridge/freezer is not only cheaper but also a much better unit overall. My converted 450Ltr 4 tap fridge was $2000 when new so runs silently, and sits outside keeping whatever temp I set it at to within 1 deg, I paid $80 for it, and about $220 for the taps,shanks etc all stainless, and if you're not bothered about quality you could use the cheap brass things from KK and save a further $100. Ok it may not be as pretty so if you value form over function it may not be for you, but if it's living outside or in a shed then who cares what it looks like. It's also a bit of faffing around but I did my 4 tapper in 2hrs so not that bad really. Almost nothing is designed for our conditions, I read the kegerator is designed for 35c max ambient, given the tendency for suppliers to be optimistic about such things plus is there anywhere in Australia that doesn't exceed 35c, and these devices become a hard sell imho.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Hey guys. It seems like many of you guys have got a Series 4 kegerator and we would like to know what it is that you would like to see change? What upgrades, what are the parts that annoy you that you want to see changed?

The kegerators are a large part of our business but it's also something that we would be happy to re-design. So give us some feedback and we will see if we can make it happen.

It sounds like you want:

1. More accurate temperature/more even temp in the fridge is that correct?
2. It seems like you want more cooling performance so you can still chill beer at temperatures above 35C? So would a fridge that is designed to still be able to cool beer in ambient temp of 40C be enough? 50C is really quite high and designing a fridge around the few days a year that it might not be a good way to go but if we get enough requests we can do it. We can keep upgrading the components but ultimately this may effect price. We could improve insulation as well if that is really want you guys want. It would only make the unit slightly larger but maybe this is a worthwhile compromise.


----------



## sp0rk

KegLand-com-au said:


> Hey guys. It seems like many of you guys have got a Series 4 kegerator and we would like to know what it is that you would like to see change? What upgrades, what are the parts that annoy you that you want to see changed?
> 
> The kegerators are a large part of our business but it's also something that we would be happy to re-design. So give us some feedback and we will see if we can make it happen.
> 
> It sounds like you want:
> 
> 1. More accurate temperature/more even temp in the fridge is that correct?
> 2. It seems like you want more cooling performance so you can still chill beer at temperatures above 35C? So would a fridge that is designed to still be able to cool beer in ambient temp of 40C be enough? 50C is really quite high and designing a fridge around the few days a year that it might not be a good way to go but if we get enough requests we can do it. We can keep upgrading the components but ultimately this may effect price. We could improve insulation as well if that is really want you guys want. It would only make the unit slightly larger but maybe this is a worthwhile compromise.


You say 50C temps is a few days a year, but infact for a lot of people it's more like about a month a year if not longer
We had a full week at 48C the year before last and the few weeks around that it wasn't much lower
Hell, soon it'll be more and more of us experiencing those temps
Better insulation is probably a good start


----------



## Nullnvoid

My shed where my Series 4 is, is 50 degrees for most of summer I reckon


----------



## DrJez

Yes, in the tropics it can sit above 35 for a few months and humidity makes it difficult too. 

I like how you guys are keen to listen and it's a yes from me on your current suggestions. I actually assumed being series 4 all the bugs would be sorted so it's a bit dissapointing unfortunately. Personally I'd add

1. A better fan or something because my back kegs are colder than the front meaning carb issues

2. Frost free, in any sort of humidity it can ice up

3. Better cooling in hotter conditions

I initially thought it was noisy but this actually tamed down so no gurgling at all now after 6 months or so


----------



## takai

Can anyone tell me what the difference between the control circuitry for the Series 3 and Series 4 is? Can the Series 3 run a Series 4 front control panel for thermostat control?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

DrJez said:


> Yes, in the tropics it can sit above 35 for a few months and humidity makes it difficult too.
> 
> I like how you guys are keen to listen and it's a yes from me on your current suggestions. I actually assumed being series 4 all the bugs would be sorted so it's a bit dissapointing unfortunately. Personally I'd add
> 
> 1. A better fan or something because my back kegs are colder than the front meaning carb issues
> 
> 2. Frost free, in any sort of humidity it can ice up
> 
> 3. Better cooling in hotter conditions
> 
> I initially thought it was noisy but this actually tamed down so no gurgling at all now after 6 months or so



Yes we would agree with all these things. The gurgling is generally caused by oil migration into parts of the fridge where it's not supposed to be. So if the fridge was turned upside down in transport or was not left standing for 24 hrs before turning the power on. It's often the case that after months of running this gurgling sound goes away on it's own as you have noticed. I personally did not find the Series 4 particularly noisy.

Frost free is an interesting point. It's not really an issue in Victoria but do you guys in QLD have frost issues on the Series 4? Would be good to get your feedback. It can be solved by just turning the fridge off and letting the ice melt once every few months. Generally this is only an issue if:
a) you are running the fridge very low temps
b) you are in an area where the humidity is high


Nullnvoid said:


> My shed where my Series 4 is, is 50 degrees for most of summer I reckon



OK looks like we have to make the new model suitable for temperatures up to 50C.


----------



## devoutharpist

Nullnvoid said:


> My shed where my Series 4 is, is 50 degrees for most of summer I reckon



How is the performance? I am planning on moving mine out to the shed.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

DrJez said:


> Yes, in the tropics it can sit above 35 for a few months and humidity makes it difficult too.
> 
> I like how you guys are keen to listen and it's a yes from me on your current suggestions. I actually assumed being series 4 all the bugs would be sorted so it's a bit dissapointing unfortunately. Personally I'd add
> 
> 1. A better fan or something because my back kegs are colder than the front meaning carb issues
> 
> 2. Frost free, in any sort of humidity it can ice up
> 
> 3. Better cooling in hotter conditions
> 
> I initially thought it was noisy but this actually tamed down so no gurgling at all now after 6 months or so



Yes we would agree with all these things. The gurgling is generally caused by oil migration into parts of the fridge where it's not supposed to be. So if the fridge was turned upside down in transport or was not left standing for 24 hrs before turning the power on. It's often the case that after months of running this gurgling sound goes away on it's own as you have noticed. I personally did not find the Series 4 particularly noisy.

Frost free is an interesting point. It's not really an issue in Victoria but do you guys in QLD have frost issues on the Series 4? Would be good to get your feedback. It can be solved by just turning the fridge off and letting the ice melt once every few months. Generally this is only an issue if:
a) you are running the fridge very low temps
b) you are in an area where the humidity is high
But would be keen to get your feedback on this guys.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

takai said:


> Can anyone tell me what the difference between the control circuitry for the Series 3 and Series 4 is? Can the Series 3 run a Series 4 front control panel for thermostat control?



The Series 4 and Series 3 was quite different. The parts are not compatible at all.

The keypad on the Series 3 was quite unreliable and used membrane buttons that were easy to damage. The Series 4 used micro switches that were more reliable.

The digital signal sent from the control board is quite different in the Series 3 when compared with the Series 4. It's not going to be easy to make this compatible. It would be easier to change over both boards. 

So you would swap out the main power and relay board with this one:
https://www.kegland.com.au/series-4-replacement-main-circuit-board.html

Then you could swap out the temp control board with this one:
https://www.kegland.com.au/series-4...control-circuit-board-with-plastic-frame.html

You would really have to butcher up the fridge to make these parts fit. It would take a lot of work and effort and quite frankly I dont think it's worthwhile use of time.

Why did you want to change the boards over? What issue are you having with the Series 3?


----------



## takai

KegLand-com-au said:


> The Series 4 and Series 3 was quite different. The parts are not compatible at all.
> 
> The keypad on the Series 3 was quite unreliable and used membrane buttons that were easy to damage. The Series 4 used micro switches that were more reliable.
> 
> The digital signal sent from the control board is quite different in the Series 3 when compared with the Series 4. It's not going to be easy to make this compatible. It would be easier to change over both boards.
> 
> So you would swap out the main power and relay board with this one:
> https://www.kegland.com.au/series-4-replacement-main-circuit-board.html
> 
> Then you could swap out the temp control board with this one:
> https://www.kegland.com.au/series-4...control-circuit-board-with-plastic-frame.html
> 
> You would really have to butcher up the fridge to make these parts fit. It would take a lot of work and effort and quite frankly I dont think it's worthwhile use of time.
> 
> Why did you want to change the boards over? What issue are you having with the Series 3?


The thermostat varies randomly compared to set point. At times it is sub zero, while others in the mid teens, all with a 5C setpoint.
Had a chat with the guys in the KL warehouse today (actually at exactly the same time as you posted this reply) and on reflection I think I will just hard wire the compressor on and run it off an Inkbird.


----------



## devoutharpist

How does everyone go changing their lines? Do you basically have to disassemble the font? Or... is there a nice, easy and obvious method that i am missing here?

Kicked my first keg a couple of weeks back and just left it hooked up. Now i see there is a bunch of crap sitting in there from the end of the keg, as well as what i assume are pockets of CO2, so ideally i would like to give it a good clean. My next keg is about two/three weeks ago still and i don't really want to leave starsan in there in case it goes all gummy. So at the moment i am thinking i'll just PBW for a day, starsan for a bit and then pull the line out until the next keg is ready.


----------



## Josh Dodd

devoutharpist said:


> How does everyone go changing their lines? Do you basically have to disassemble the font? Or... is there a nice, easy and obvious method that i am missing here?
> 
> Kicked my first keg a couple of weeks back and just left it hooked up. Now i see there is a bunch of crap sitting in there from the end of the keg, as well as what i assume are pockets of CO2, so ideally i would like to give it a good clean. My next keg is about two/three weeks ago still and i don't really want to leave starsan in there in case it goes all gummy. So at the moment i am thinking i'll just PBW for a day, starsan for a bit and then pull the line out until the next keg is ready.


I don’t change/remove the lines every time. There are a couple of suggestions I’ve come across. 
One is to buy one of those carb caps that screws onto an ordinary soft drink bottle. It adds a beer/gas post to the top of the bottle. Fill a bottle with hot tap water and some napisan or perc or whatever your cleaner of choice is, remove the beer line from the empty keg and attach to the bottle. Open the tap, squeeze the bottle and you can push a fair bit of cleaner through. You squeeze the bottle a lot to get the liquid out, then remove the beer line, briefly pop the gas line on to reinflate the plastic bottle, back to beer line, and so on. Once your happy with the clean line, empty the bottle, fill with Starsan, and repeat. Gives the lines a pretty good clean without having to disassemble. Every 6-12 months (depending how often you are changing kegs) go for a full disassemble and clean. 
The other option is similar but you use one of those small gardening spray bottles from the hardware store. They come in 1 or 2 litre versions. You may have to do some creative tinkering to connect to the beer line but if you’re lucky, you may just be able to screw one of the quick connect adaptors onto the end of the spray bottle. Then just disconnect your beer line from the coupler thingy, slot the line into the adaptor on the spray bottle and run through cleaner and then sanitizer. 
The advantage of the first method is your not having to disconnect lines or fiddle with stuff like that. Just pop off the keg, pop onto the bottle. Plus 2 litre soft drink bottles are easy to acquire. 
The advantage of the second method is you can pump/prime air into the spray bottle so you just keep pumping and spraying without having to swap over lines and reinflate the bottle. 
I currently use the first method but I’m planning to migrate to the second shortly. 
There’s plenty of YouTube videos online for both methods.


----------



## hopnotic

I just rinse out my kegs when they run dry, fill with sodium perc and about 2-3L hot water, shake the hell out of it for a few mins then connect back to beer and gas lines and run through the tap. Rinse keg with tap water a few time to remove perc, then repeat the first operation with starsan. No need for extra tools.


----------



## Josh Dodd

hopnotic said:


> I just rinse out my kegs when they run dry, fill with sodium perc and about 2-3L hot water, shake the hell out of it for a few mins then connect back to beer and gas lines and run through the tap. Rinse keg with tap water a few time to remove perc, then repeat the first operation with starsan. No need for extra tools.


...Yeah. That's probably even easier still. LOL
Your washing the kegs and Starsanning them anyways so you might as well use them to clean the hoses and taps. Sometimes simpler really is better!

I'll probably just do that next time. 

I will say the bottle and carb cap is a quick and easy clean when you're simply swapping over kegs and don't want to go to the effort of cleaning the dirty keg right then.


----------



## fdsaasdf

devoutharpist said:


> How does everyone go changing their lines? Do you basically have to disassemble the font? Or... is there a nice, easy and obvious method that i am missing here?
> 
> Kicked my first keg a couple of weeks back and just left it hooked up. Now i see there is a bunch of crap sitting in there from the end of the keg, as well as what i assume are pockets of CO2, so ideally i would like to give it a good clean. My next keg is about two/three weeks ago still and i don't really want to leave starsan in there in case it goes all gummy. So at the moment i am thinking i'll just PBW for a day, starsan for a bit and then pull the line out until the next keg is ready.


Changing lines is a royal PITA and a significant reason why I started looking to move to a keezer once I had more room for a home bar. Pulling the whole font off doesn't really help, it was still a nightmare as my brass shank retaining nuts had been badly installed (2/3 were cross-threaded) and getting new lines onto the barbs was agonising (my wit and fingers were decimated after that).

Many years later I still have the kegerator (keezer finally in build at new place) and would never consider putting anything with potential hop or fruit sediment through it. I just clean the lines with PBW followed by warm water rinse and cold starsan between every 2-3 kegs, or after strong flavour/colour beers.


----------



## devoutharpist

so by the sounds of all this i should just try and clean it before use, i'll let all the yeasty crap sit in the lines until then. I reckon i will hot perc it for a bit and then flush with sanitise and serve


----------



## Nullnvoid

devoutharpist said:


> How is the performance? I am planning on moving mine out to the shed.



Doesn't seem to miss a beat. It's a little garden shed too, so heats up quick. Hasn't affected the temperature of the beer.

Only had it since January, in Summer it was costing about $1.60 a week and in winter, $0.40 a week to run. YMMV.


----------



## Timbo

KegLand-com-au said:


> Hey guys. It seems like many of you guys have got a Series 4 kegerator and we would like to know what it is that you would like to see change? What upgrades, what are the parts that annoy you that you want to see changed?
> 
> The kegerators are a large part of our business but it's also something that we would be happy to re-design. So give us some feedback and we will see if we can make it happen.
> 
> It sounds like you want:
> 
> 1. More accurate temperature/more even temp in the fridge is that correct?
> 2. It seems like you want more cooling performance so you can still chill beer at temperatures above 35C? So would a fridge that is designed to still be able to cool beer in ambient temp of 40C be enough? 50C is really quite high and designing a fridge around the few days a year that it might not be a good way to go but if we get enough requests we can do it. We can keep upgrading the components but ultimately this may effect price. We could improve insulation as well if that is really want you guys want. It would only make the unit slightly larger but maybe this is a worthwhile compromise.


What are we supposed to do with the fridge when it’s in 50c ambient? Turn it off to prevent damage? Or just expect warmer beer?


----------



## devoutharpist

Nullnvoid said:


> Doesn't seem to miss a beat. It's a little garden shed too, so heats up quick. Hasn't affected the temperature of the beer.
> 
> Only had it since January, in Summer it was costing about $1.60 a week and in winter, $0.40 a week to run. YMMV.



I'll have to give it a go and see what my mileage is then. More motivation to finally finish cleaning out the rest of the shed


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Timbo said:


> What are we supposed to do with the fridge when it’s in 50c ambient? Turn it off to prevent damage? Or just expect warmer beer?



You can leave the fridge running if the ambient temp is 50C if you like. You might find that at these very high ambient temperatures most domestic fridges will struggle including the S4 and will have close to 100% duty cycle. You might find that at this high ambient temp the temperature of the kegs will climb very slowly then overnight when the ambient temperature drops the fridge will catch up and then get back to temp. If you have the fridge full of kegs the fluctuations in temp might not even be noticeable.

It doesn't really harm the compressor that much. The thing that wears out the compressor more significantly is really the number of compressor starts. If you do connect an Inkbird controller to the compressor directly I would be very careful to make sure you have a compressor start delay of 2 minutes and also have at least 1C degree temp hysteresis and realistically 2C would be fine. I know a lot of home brewers like tighter temp control and you might feel tempted to make the hysteresis 0.1C or something but honestly your kegs don't need this level of accuracy and you will just burn out your compressor much faster as you will have a lot more compressor starts. Really the air temp inside the fridge might swing by 2C temp hysteresis but that doesn't mean the core keg temp is swinging by this amount.

So knowing that it's a compromise between overall compressor life and accuracy of temp control what do you guys feel would be an acceptable default temp hysteresis? Most domestic fridges and freezers have about 2C hysteresis.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

fdsaasdf said:


> Changing lines is a royal PITA and a significant reason why I started looking to move to a keezer once I had more room for a home bar. Pulling the whole font off doesn't really help, it was still a nightmare as my brass shank retaining nuts had been badly installed (2/3 were cross-threaded) and getting new lines onto the barbs was agonising (my wit and fingers were decimated after that).
> 
> Many years later I still have the kegerator (keezer finally in build at new place) and would never consider putting anything with potential hop or fruit sediment through it. I just clean the lines with PBW followed by warm water rinse and cold starsan between every 2-3 kegs, or after strong flavour/colour beers.



I would say changing lines on the older kegerators was a lot more difficult than the new kegerators with duotight fittings. For some time now we have been selling these duotight compatible tap shanks that have a barb that you can use a duotight fitting on. Then on the other end most customers these days are using this FFL push in fittings. So when I take apart the font and change the beer lines over the most time consuming part is the nut that secures the shank to the font. To change over three lines on the setup takes me about 10 minutes.

Did you use the 7 in 1 tap tool? Normally this makes the process quite a bit easier. With that said normally as you have suggested and just cleaning the lines with PBW will work fine and this is normally all that is necessary. I find that anything with fruit or hop sediment gets blocked in the poppets well before it causes an issue in the beer lines so if in the unusual circumstance that I have got solids in the keg I would normally take apart the post once the keg is empty.


----------



## Timbo

KegLand-com-au said:


> You can leave the fridge running if the ambient temp is 50C if you like. You might find that at these very high ambient temperatures most domestic fridges will struggle including the S4 and will have close to 100% duty cycle. You might find that at this high ambient temp the temperature of the kegs will climb very slowly then overnight when the ambient temperature drops the fridge will catch up and then get back to temp. If you have the fridge full of kegs the fluctuations in temp might not even be noticeable.
> 
> It doesn't really harm the compressor that much. The thing that wears out the compressor more significantly is really the number of compressor starts. If you do connect an Inkbird controller to the compressor directly I would be very careful to make sure you have a compressor start delay of 2 minutes and also have at least 1C degree temp hysteresis and realistically 2C would be fine. I know a lot of home brewers like tighter temp control and you might feel tempted to make the hysteresis 0.1C or something but honestly your kegs don't need this level of accuracy and you will just burn out your compressor much faster as you will have a lot more compressor starts. Really the air temp inside the fridge might swing by 2C temp hysteresis but that doesn't mean the core keg temp is swinging by this amount.
> 
> So knowing that it's a compromise between overall compressor life and accuracy of temp control what do you guys feel would be an acceptable default temp hysteresis? Most domestic fridges and freezers have about 2C hysteresis.


Thanks for the reply. I’m happy with minor temp fluctuations in extreme conditions and that the compressor will run more on the odd extreme day. As long as the fridge life isn’t shortened or damaged that’s great!


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## fdsaasdf

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would say changing lines on the older kegerators was a lot more difficult than the new kegerators with duotight fittings. For some time now we have been selling these duotight compatible tap shanks that have a barb that you can use a duotight fitting on. Then on the other end most customers these days are using this FFL push in fittings. So when I take apart the font and change the beer lines over the most time consuming part is the nut that secures the shank to the font. To change over three lines on the setup takes me about 10 minutes.
> 
> Did you use the 7 in 1 tap tool? Normally this makes the process quite a bit easier. With that said normally as you have suggested and just cleaning the lines with PBW will work fine and this is normally all that is necessary. I find that anything with fruit or hop sediment gets blocked in the poppets well before it causes an issue in the beer lines so if in the unusual circumstance that I have got solids in the keg I would normally take apart the post once the keg is empty.


For whatever reason the sediment made it well past the poppet, was hosting a function where I had foolishly keg-hopped in a tea strainer and had other people's beer on which was also heavy on the hop/fruit matter.

I didn't use the 7 in 1 tool but tools weren't the issue... the experience above was years before Kegland existed or duotight fittings were available unfortunately.


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## devoutharpist

Has anyone used one of the waterproof covers from KK or KL for the s4 I figure i probably need one of those now to keep the dust off it in the shed. Looks easier to deal with than your standard tarp at least


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## Josh Dodd

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would say changing lines on the older kegerators was a lot more difficult than the new kegerators with duotight fittings. For some time now we have been selling these duotight compatible tap shanks that have a barb that you can use a duotight fitting on. Then on the other end most customers these days are using this FFL push in fittings. So when I take apart the font and change the beer lines over the most time consuming part is the nut that secures the shank to the font. To change over three lines on the setup takes me about 10 minutes.
> 
> Did you use the 7 in 1 tap tool? Normally this makes the process quite a bit easier. With that said normally as you have suggested and just cleaning the lines with PBW will work fine and this is normally all that is necessary. I find that anything with fruit or hop sediment gets blocked in the poppets well before it causes an issue in the beer lines so if in the unusual circumstance that I have got solids in the keg I would normally take apart the post once the keg is empty.


Mines a KegLand S4 not a Keg King and I do agree that the font is the hardest part about changing lines. To the point that I dread having to do it. I have a three-tap setup and tightening the nuts is damn near impossible. 
The 7in1 tool is a great idea and works well for most things but is all but useless in the small confines of the font. You are essentially only able to finger tighten the bottom two nuts (right and left taps), and once the middle tap is installed, there's almost no access to those two nuts. If one of them loosens, you pretty much have to disassemble the font and remove the other taps to get at it and tighten it back up.
Not actually complaining or anything, it's just a symptom of the way they are made and there's not a whole to do about it. But it certainly explains why people don't disconnect their beer-lines all that often.

Having said all that, I love my S4, triple-tap Kegerator. It lives in the garage (the missus flat out refused to let me install it in the kitchen, even though it's a very pretty piece of kit) and I have one tap permanently assigned to serve root-beer, and the other two alternate between different beers (a pseudo-Belgian Dark ale and a Pear & Apple Cider at the moment). The noise is barely noticeable even when I'm next to it, it cools a keg down remarkably well (the garage is full brick and integrated into the house so even in the height of summer it maintains reasonable temps) and the convenience is awesome. I also love that even with three cornies in there, I have room for at least another six-pack of cans or bottles so I can have even more drinking options, Love the stainless steel Intertaps, and am contemplating picking up a nitro tank to use with the stout nozzle for some creamy nitro beer. A dual reg setup allows me to highly carb the soda and maintains decent carb levels on the beer as well. It's easy to keep clean, love the digital temp controls, and the chilling tube fitted to the fan and run up into the font keeps the beer lines nicely cool, which is just a clever idea in my book. 
Really the only thing that could improve it for me would be improved access to the tap fittings inside the font, and I honestly can't see how that could be done, so it;s really nothing more than an idle wish.


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## Scott Taylor

Hi Guys 
In the last few days I have received my S4 premium triple tap setup with a lot of extra stuff from Kegland . 
I’m a newbie at this .
I’m looking forward to putting this together.
I will be starting with a 50 litre of New to christen it .
I will be getting into home brew at a later date.
Thanks to Kegland for the kit ! 
A question for you guys.
What temp and what psi would I need for a keg of New .
Cheers


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## camNZ

Can anyone tell me if they've managed to fit 3x19.5l corny kegs plus either a 9.5l corny or 8/10l mini keg aswell in their series 4?


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