# Brewing Fresh Perry



## Newbee(r) (16/7/11)

We have just added to the orchard a Perry pear tree, a Moorcroft as my wife is now hooked on the stuff.

I have been doing some googling and am struggling to find some consistent advice on how to make a decent batch. Lots of experiments but little follow up on outcomes etc. Keen on instructions for a 23L ferment with fresh pears, to approx 5%. Not wild yeast but champagne ale or similar. Any suggestions, including good books etc would be most appreciated. 

Cheers

J


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## Newbee(r) (17/7/11)

bump


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## spaced (17/7/11)

Sorry mate, can't be any help. Still testing with juice at the moment and different yeasts and techniques. I've reported your thread so hopefully it can be moved to non-beer brewing.

Might have more luck there.


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## O'Henry (17/7/11)

I'd just give it a go. Nothing like experimentation.


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## CosmicBertie (17/7/11)

I'm not experienced in this at all, but from what I've read, its pretty much the same as making cider. Maybe investigating cider techniques will help you to cross-over to perry?

Just a thought...I may have something in a book...i'll see if I can dig out any information.


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## Newbee(r) (18/7/11)

spaced said:


> Sorry mate, can't be any help. Still testing with juice at the moment and different yeasts and techniques. I've reported your thread so hopefully it can be moved to non-beer brewing.
> 
> Might have more luck there.




No worries. Realised after I had posted it was in the wrong forum thread. 

cheers

J


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## Airgead (18/7/11)

Newbee(r) said:


> No worries. Realised after I had posted it was in the wrong forum thread.
> 
> cheers
> 
> J



Given that pear trees take a very long time to become productive (at least 5 years), you should have plenty of time to work out a good recipe...

Never made perry but as far as I know its much the same as a fresh juice cider. You will need around 30kg of fruit for a 20l batch (depending on your juicer). Let it sit in the fridge overnight to clear then rack off the clear juice. Add your yeast and nutrient and away you go. 

Cheers
Dave


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## EK (18/7/11)

Disclaimer: I am not, nor have I ever been, an authority on Cider or Perry. I do have an interest in both drinks and that's about it.

There are a number of resources (findable via Google) on "making perry". The problem with this approach is that perry has come to mean two different things.
Traditionally, perry is a pear wine. Increasingly, perry is being used to describe what is effectively pear cider.

An example recipe: http://www.howtomakecider.com/perry.php. (via the linked cider making instructions) indicate that wild yeast is used. I personally wouldn't do this as I wouldn't want to risk all the hard work to produce something undrinkable.

What books for making cider and perry do people recommend?

:icon_cheers: 
EK


EDIT: Wow, after reading my posted reply it would appear that I was decidedly less helpful than I thought I could be.


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## hsb (18/7/11)

<edit> I'll just add this, going OT there... a (mongrel) perry recipe/notes
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scrumpy/cider/recipep1.htm


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## manticle (18/7/11)

Good net references:

http://www.ciderandperry.co.uk/ and specifically the section on making perry.

http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

Traditional french cidermaking: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/cider_1.htm

Worthwhile books on cidermaking:

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Making-Bes...x/9780882662220

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Real-Cider...y/9781854861955

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Cider-Anni...x/9781580175203

All bar one are cider rather than perry - main process is similar, some of the differences are outlined in the appropriate section of the first link.


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## Greg.L (18/7/11)

Googling gives a bit of info, but it isn't very comprehensive. What I gather is you leave the pulp to macerate for a day after milling the fruit, something to do with the tannins. From there you press and ferment pretty much as for cider, try to keep it cool and slow. Natural yeast ferment is recommended, and plenty of ageing. You need to let the fruit ripen until it is pretty soft, so milling and pressing can be a bit tricky (I have read). Not much perry made in oz at present but a lot of people planting trees, so there may be more experience available in future.


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## String (18/7/11)

Oz and James drink to Britain - Episode 6, they go to a Perry brewery.
I'd be interested to try it.


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## Newbee(r) (18/7/11)

Thanks for the posts, really appreciate it. Yes, didn't have much luck with google other than the site Manticle picked up on from the uk. The trees, like most fruit trees, need 4-5 years to start producing the kilos needed - I have some existing apple trees that I was planning on adding to the modest batches in the first couple of years. The tree we bought is from yalca fruit trees in Victoria - They sell 2 yr old trees if anyone is interested, particularly for the southern areas of Aus. www.yalcafruittrees.com.au 

Local homebrew store, Colin at Brew Your Own at Home has a press for hire, so will be able to tap in to that resource when the time comes. 

I will post up my research efforts once done to save others some time in the future. 


Cheers again - will go back to slurping my more 'blokey' american IPA.  ( and buy another case of perry for my wife in the short term  )

J


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## newguy (18/7/11)

My inlaws used to have a pear tree with almost inedible fruit - very sour. It produced fantastic perry. Made it twice before they sold the place and I lost access to the pears.

It's important to leave the pears on the tree for as long as possible. Once they get so ripe that they start falling off, it's pretty safe to juice them. They'll clog a juicer in no time if they're not quite ripe. They still clog it when they're ripe, but you can juice more of them before it clogs.

I had my best results when I pasteurised the juice, chilled it, then pitched yeast. I brought it to 80C, sealed the pot, and let it cool to pitching temps on its own. You'll need DAP (diammonium phosphate) otherwise the perry will get a nasty mousey/ammonia aroma. DAP is an ingredient in a lot of yeast energisers, but it's better if you can get it on its own as you'll need 4-5 tsp for a 20l-ish batch. Pure DAP looks like moistened salt - it forms loose clumps on its own. Also remember to oxygenate the juice as much as possible when you pitch yeast for best results.


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## Newbee(r) (19/7/11)

newguy said:


> My inlaws used to have a pear tree with almost inedible fruit - very sour. It produced fantastic perry. Made it twice before they sold the place and I lost access to the pears.
> 
> It's important to leave the pears on the tree for as long as possible. Once they get so ripe that they start falling off, it's pretty safe to juice them. They'll clog a juicer in no time if they're not quite ripe. They still clog it when they're ripe, but you can juice more of them before it clogs.
> 
> I had my best results when I pasteurised the juice, chilled it, then pitched yeast. I brought it to 80C, sealed the pot, and let it cool to pitching temps on its own. You'll need DAP (diammonium phosphate) otherwise the perry will get a nasty mousey/ammonia aroma. DAP is an ingredient in a lot of yeast energisers, but it's better if you can get it on its own as you'll need 4-5 tsp for a 20l-ish batch. Pure DAP looks like moistened salt - it forms loose clumps on its own. Also remember to oxygenate the juice as much as possible when you pitch yeast for best results.



Thanks for this. To date my reading indicated a fairly high use of camden tablets (sulpher dioxide), but wasn't aware of the DAP - ammonia issue. Yes, definitely not table pears! We have a Moorcroft, one of the older varieties that apparently grows large and high yielding. For those interested, the following is the best summary I have found yet - which now needs to be updated for DAP! Gillian Grafton takes credit for the following:

*The Perry Making Process*

The process starts with the picking of the pears. These are left to mature for a period of between 2 days and 1 week depending on the variety of pear used. This period is much more critical than the equivalent period for apples in the cider making process. If not left long enough then very little pear flavour is imparted to the perry, if left for too long then the fruit begins to rot from the centre outwards (and thus may go unnoticed) and will ruin the finished perry. The matured pears are crushed in a _"scratcher"_ or in more modern plants they are pulped in a grater mill. As with the cider making process, the crushed pulp is known as the *pomace* or *pommy*. Unlike the cider making process, in perry making it is essential that the milled pomace is allowed to stand for a period before pressing. This allows the pomace to lose tannins and thus aids clearing of the perry. The usual period for standing is overnight up to 24 hours. Next the pulp must be crushed to extract the juice. This is done in a cider press, descriptions of which can be found in the cider making guide. 

The pressed juice is then fermented in one of two different ways. Traditionally the juice is run into wooden *pipes* (barrels which can contain 120 gallons) or smaller wooden barrels, and the bung is removed. No yeast is added, the fermentation relies on wild yeasts. The fermentation will start within 1-2 days and will continue for several weeks during which time the barrel is topped up with perry. When fermentation is over, the bung is replaced and the perry is matured for 5-6 months. 

Alternatively the pear juice is treated with sulphur dioxide to inhibit natural wild yeasts, and is then fermented with added pure yeast cultures. The amount of sulphur dioxide which is required is substantially more than is needed for cider making. This is because pear juice contains more acetaldehyde than apple juice. The acetaldehyde neutralises the effect of sulphur dioxide. At least 100 to 150 ppm sulphur dioxide is required to be effective. In the UK the legal limit for sulphur dioxide is 200 ppm and may well be reduced by subsequent legislation. Always check your local regulations first! The problems associated with the need to add high levels of sulphur dioxide have led some commercial producers to flash-pasteurise the juice. The advantages of this are that it completely controls the wild yeast levels. The disadvantages are that it destroys the bacteria responsible for the subsequent malo-lactic fermentation. The acidity must be reduced after the main yeast fermentation by a controlled fermentation with a suitable strain of lactic acid bacteria. 

As with commercial cider making, commercial perry makers often blend new and old perries to ensure consistency of the product. Because of the difficulties associated with high tannin pears, commercial perry makers use low to medium tannin pears which will often be a mixture of different varieties. The resulting perry, although requiring less skill to make, is of a lower quality than that made with high tannin pears. 

The perry is matured in large storage tanks to allow for any further precipitation of tannins. Blending is carried out at this stage. Mutual reactions between the blended perries can occur and hazes and deposits often form. These are removed by filtration or centrifugation. The finished perry is checked for stability by cooling it to 4 C for 24 hours and observing whether any deposits or hazes form. If the perry is clear then it is either sulphited or flash-pasteurised. The perry may then be sweetened and is artificially carbonated in the bottle by counter-pressure bottle fillers. The resulting product may be considered analagous to keg beer. A common example of this type of perry is the sparkling wine substitute Pomagne (often sold as Babycham). This bears little resemblance to real perry so please don't be put off trying the real thing by this inferior cousin! 

Traditional perry is served completely flat and may well be cloudy. It may rarely be found as a naturally-conditioned cask perry in a similar way to real ale. Naturally sparkling perry may be made by the traditional champagne method in a bottle but this is very difficult to do since tannin deposition interferes with the process of disgorging the yeast deposit. For this reason it is almost never seen.


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## Tanga (19/7/11)

Sorry I can't be more help with this amazing style of brewing. I have been reading with interest though.

Just a couple of notes on letting natural fermentation take place (from my reading on the history wine and beer making). Because of their long history of brewing, the natural yeasts in England and Europe have been selected (as in natural selection) to produce good tasting drinks. So a medieval (or earlier) brewer would make a good tasting brew, and, if it tasted good, reuse the trub numerous times (thus increasing the population of yeasts with tasty results). This has been going on for thousands of years. In Australia we have only been brewing for 200 years, so our wild yeasts are a lot more diverse and not necessarily tasty. It is a (much) bigger risk here. Though if you were to use wooden barrels like it says they will innoculate your brew with the malo-lactic bacteria (though you may have to add it the first time).


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## Greg.L (19/7/11)

Tanga, you should be careful making generalisations about yeast populations, it is a very complex subject. !00 years of winemaking in Australia is plenty of time to get saccharomyces yeasts well established. In every area, a diverse selection of yeasts is involved in fermentation, and the relative populations change rapidly as the ferment progresses. So2 is added to favour the more desirable yeasts. Usually with a wild ferment the first yeasts to become active soon give over to the more alcohol tolerant yeasts like S. cerevisiae. Plenty of winemakers do natural ferments in Australia without problem. The more dangerous time is after the primary fermentation when undesirable bacteria might get involved.
I haven't read any research about risky yeast species being more prevalant in Australia than anywhere else.

Greg


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## EK (19/7/11)

Wild Brews by Jeff Sparrow may provide more information on brewing with naturally occurring wild yeast. Though it is aimed at beers, it contains lots of information on the process.

There is also Making Wild Wines & Meads by Pattie Vargas & Rich Gulling. While "wild" in the title does not specifically refer to natural fermentation, there is some info on the topic..if I recall correctly. I believe that there is a perry recipe (though this might just be a pear wine recipe...I don't have the book on me so I can't verify...If anyone does want me to verify, let me know).

:icon_cheers: 
EK


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## Greg.L (19/7/11)

I noticed the cider workshop now have a page on perry making

what's different about perry


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## Newbee(r) (19/7/11)

Have made contact with a printing company in the UK and am arranging for them to send me a copy of 

Perry Pears: edited by L C Luckwill & A Pollard. A spiral bound reprint of the classic book first published for The National Fruit and Cider Institute in 1963.

Once received, I'll distill (and reference) the core elements for those following this thread.

Cheers

J


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## EK (19/7/11)

For those playing along at home:
I have just checked Making Wild Wines & Meads. It is specifically mentioned (on page 12) that wild yeasts shouldn't be used. The argument being that a small amount of money is being saved by using wild yeast at quite a significant monetary risk if it doesn't work out right.

Also there is a recipe for Pear Wine.

:icon_cheers: 
EK


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## Greg.L (20/7/11)

There is a lot of opinion around the use of wild/cultured yeast. I use a cultured yeast because I like the predictable results, but a lot of people believe that wild yeasts give a more complex cider, and this has been the traditional method for craft cider makers in England and France. If you are wanting to make a really good perry you would probably want to go the wild yeast method, but if you are starting out you are better to use cultured yeasts because you need to get all the processes down pat before you go to more advanced methods. The fact that so many people use wild yeasts show that it is a pretty safe way to go, but not as reliable as using cultured yeast. The use of cultured yeasts only became common in Australian winemaking from the 1950's according to Rankine ("making good wine" p 120).


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## Tanga (20/7/11)

Greg.L said:


> Tanga, you should be careful making generalisations about yeast populations, it is a very complex subject. !00 years of winemaking in Australia is plenty of time to get saccharomyces yeasts well established. In every area, a diverse selection of yeasts is involved in fermentation, and the relative populations change rapidly as the ferment progresses. So2 is added to favour the more desirable yeasts. Usually with a wild ferment the first yeasts to become active soon give over to the more alcohol tolerant yeasts like S. cerevisiae. Plenty of winemakers do natural ferments in Australia without problem. The more dangerous time is after the primary fermentation when undesirable bacteria might get involved.
> I haven't read any research about risky yeast species being more prevalant in Australia than anywhere else.
> 
> Greg



Fair enough. I haven't experienced it myself as I haven't done any wild brews, but wild wine made in Adelaide (by Greek and Italian homebrewers mostly) does have a really bad rep. The results just aren't the same as they got back in the old country.


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