# Made My First Homebrew, Coopers Lager - Didnt Work



## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

Hey guys,

I got given a Coopers kit for christmas, so I used the Coopers Lager that came free with the kit but I left the wort in the barrel for about a month or so, I bottled it and it reads between the beer START <> FINISH line so I know the alcohol content is low, but it also tastes pretty watery and it looks a funny colour.







it kind of has a murky orange/brown colour to it, that I know doesn't seem right. It also gave plenty of head when I poured it, which quickly disappeared, but bubbles remain throughout the liquid.

perhaps by leaving it too long in the fermenter it's gone off?


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## boingk (18/5/07)

Hi there, welcome to the site and homebrewing! 

Just a few q's:

What temp did you ferment at?
What did you add to the kit? [sugars, hops, etc]
How long did you leave it in the bottles before tasting?

I made my first beer up with the one that came in the setup kit, a Tooheys Draught. Just added the can and 1kg of liquid cron syrup as they were included, and it came out awfully. Flat, tasteless, very dodgy. My next beer was a simple Heineken recipe - which was great! I then did some Becks which wasn't too bad either, still enjoying it. 

A lot of people have first-time troubles, so don't let it get you down. The kit may have been dodgy but it always helps to brew at or under 20'C, and don't leave it too long in the fermenter - this gives weird tastes imparted to the beer from the yeast that has settled. And yes, infections can happen. I tend to leave it no longer than 2 or 4 days max in the fermenter after fermentation has finished - this seems plently and gives a clear beer after a week or two in the bottle.


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## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

I just used everything that comes with the supplied Lager kit, the included Malt, I used Coopers Dextrose 1kg and I used the supplied yeast.

I use the sugar carbonation drops, too, are these bad or good?


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## Paleman (18/5/07)

How long has it been in the bottle ?, i know you mentioned a month in the fermenter, but bottle ageing is an all important factor.

Using the ingredients you mention, you should at least get some kind of head. Unless your glass is bogus. Also what size bottles and how many carb drops per bottle ?


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## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

been in the bottle about 4 weeks now, I used two carb drops per PET coopers bottle!

it's giving a head, but still tastes a little "watery" if that makes sense?


ahh I just tipped one of the bottles upside down and there is a lot of large chunky bits of something (sediment?) at the bottom of the bottle? after I mixed it around a bit it seemed to change colour drastically, perhaps I am meant to give it a quick turn when I first put the carb drops in? or, not?

don't worry, I really have no idea, reading most of this site confuses me more with cooking hops, mixing your own yeast in, etc, etc... I'm a total n00b when it comes to making it, but I am a seasoned veteran when it comes to drinking it


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## delboy (18/5/07)

a month in the fermentor may have over stepped the mark in primary stage ?
did it taste a bit soapy or cardboardy ??

how long was it bottled for?
did you sanitize correctly ?


regardless don't loose faith in the hobby at first attempt i would like to say welcome to the forum and you have come to the right place for your answers.

in regards to your lager if you done every thing correctly and its still young in the bottle leave it a few weeks in a cool dark place .get out your gear give it a good clean and sanitize and start another taking time to go through the process .try a find a seasond brewer to help you as some times the old addige "monkey see monkey do" is easier than reading the book as your are doing the process.
as a rule of thumb for first timers i always say to them "the distructions that come with the kit are very basic" if its a coopers kit watch the video a few times first as well .

take care when cleaning ,sanitising ,pitch yeast at 20-24 if you can maintain at best a constant temp where possable ferment for 14 days then bottle after cleaning and sanitizing your bottles.and leave for a minimum of 14 days befor tasting. there may be more to add to this but i beleive to help you along its best to get a few brews under your belt as simply and easy as possable 

a good read is understanding beer making vol 2 as starting point with out spending a kings ransom as well.
then once you've been bitten by the bug then may be spend a bit more timein a home brew shop and ask lots of questions as well .your journey has just begun and remember that even the best of brewers have had the occasional failure how else wold we learn.

i hope these words are encouraging it is a wonderfull hobby and you can spend as much or as little as you need on it depending on your budget. and it is an easy hobby as well.

regards delboy :beer: 

i


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## FazerPete (18/5/07)

xknifepointx said:


> been in the bottle about 4 weeks now, I used two carb drops per PET coopers bottle!
> 
> it's giving a head, but still tastes a little "watery" if that makes sense?


Does it taste beery at all?

The coopers lager kit isn't one of the best and would be watery with just dextrose added but I have made one and it should at least look like beer. The colour in your photo's looks completely wrong and the bubbles look more like a soft drink than a beer. I don't think it's the fault of the kit so I think you might have done something wrong.

Did you disturb the fermenter at all when you bottled it? I'm thinking that maybe you stirred up the yeast on the bottom and the stuff stuck to the side of the fermenter. You need to be pretty careful whenever you move the fermenter.

Other than that, I'm not sure what you could have done. Did it have that colour when before you bottled it?


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## delboy (18/5/07)

hey x

list your where abouts so may be you can meetup with another brewer in your area to help you out mate.

if we know your whareabouts we can even suggest some one or a club or group nearby.

delboy


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## petesbrew (18/5/07)

Haven't got that much advice to give you Knifepoint apart from don't give up. You'll brew a decent batch soon enough. But yeah, 4 weeks in the fermenter is pretty long. One or two weeks is about right.

My first ever turned out pretty good (looking back it probably tasted crap compared to what I'm making now), but the second batch was quite crap. Ended up tipping a fair bit of it.

Have a look around on this site and look for a brew logsheet, or theres one on the country brewer site that's good to use. Print it out, and keep notes of what you do, and how it tastes.

All the best mate.
Pete


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## boingk (18/5/07)

I second delboys reccomendation on the book...check it out at a local Big W in the homebrewing section. I got mine for something like 8 bucks and its been great. Very simple, a good introductory to homebrewing.


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## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

okay I just sanitized everything properly and waited for it to dry, then I just laid down some Coopers Pale Ale, using 500gm of Light Malt(?) and the MALT and yeast from the can, added it all to about 22litres of water and now waiting for this one to ferment.

I hope I just did something wrong the first time, hopefully this time it goes a little better than the last, I just put two PET bottles in the fridge and I'm drinking some now from the first lot but it doesn't really have a beer taste to it at all, tastes more like bitter water IMO and that's probably because I left it in the fermenter for over a month, but I'm not too sure.


btw thanks guys, I'm in Waterloo btw, I found this site this morning because I thought I'd buy a kegerator but not until I get it working in the bottles first.


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## delboy (18/5/07)

hey x

ok the one you have just done will have plenty of body but it will lack a bit of alc%
but if you like a light beer then that will be fine .

looks like your going to get it right any way .just let this one gone along and bottle it in 14 days from now try not to move it about too much and keep the temp at best around 20 but if it sits a little higher thats fine just try and keep it nice and stable it will fluctuate a bit but dont worry to much we just want to get you a good beer without the worry of techie stuff at the moment. that can come later.

del


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## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

delboy said:


> hey x
> 
> ok the one you have just done will have plenty of body but it will lack a bit of alc%
> but if you like a light beer then that will be fine .
> ...




will it lack alcohol % because I put in the Light malt ?? I thought it just gave it more body and flavour, if I knew it killed some of the alcohol content I wouldn't of put it in, I also put 500gm in the last batch I made which could be why it sits on about 3.5% alcohol.


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## Prawned (18/5/07)

Next time just add 1kg, that will bring it upto around 4.5 - 5%


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## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

okay, so after turning the PET bottles up slowly, then down slowly a few times and getting the crap at the bottom of the bottle to mix with the rest of it, it seems more colourful, it is cloudier, but the head keeps for the entire beer in the schooner glass and it is definately a lot better to drink, but not too much. It still lacks a bit of flavour I think. Should I turn the bottles as I put the drops in ?


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## v8r (18/5/07)

my method with my first batch was to gently move the fermenter on to the bench (don't stir up the yeast cake in the bottom of the ferm.), drop two carbo drops in each tallie, bottle and cap, then turn upside down once. 
leave in a dark cupboard that can maintain around 20deg, then (if you really cant wait any longer!) fridge some for a couple of days and drink.
personally, i leave the sediment behind in the bottle, but thats your choice.


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## xknifepointx (18/5/07)

ahh, I never turned the bottle, I just put two carb drops in and left it. Probably my first mistake.

another mistake was using Light Dry Malt, I didn't know it had an effect on the alcohol content, but now I know not to use it unless I'm going to use two full packets (even though the bag says 250gm > 500gm is all you want)


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## boingk (18/5/07)

knifepoint, good to see you're on the right track! You might benefit from trotting down to the local homebrew store and getting a 'recipe sheet', I've got one with the recipes for something like 35 beers on it using simple methods - the most complicated thing you have to do with them is whack some hop pellets into a glass of boiling water for 10 minutes, then throw into the fermenter along with the rest. 


Using light dry malt isn't a mistake, you'll need 1 kilo or more of anything you put into your beers, the can alone will be thin and watery with only around 2.7% alcohol. A few recipes from said sheet you might be interested in:

*VB:*

1.7kg lager kit,
500g light dried malt,
250g dextrose,
250g maltodextron, 
12g Pride of Ringwood hops soaked in boiling water for 10-15 minutes.

*Heineken:*

1.7kg lager kit,
500g light dried malt,
250g dextrose,
250g maltodextron, 
12g Tettnanger hops soaked in boiling water for 10-15 minutes.

Also, you can usually get good results on the cheap by just adding two kits [eg: 2 x Coopers Pale Ale] to the fermenter and topping it up with water. I'm bottling one done like this tonight...smells wonderful. Oh yeah, and these ones come out at around the 7% alcohol mark 

Cheers, hope all goes well - boingk


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## Prawned (18/5/07)

xknifepointx said:


> ahh, I never turned the bottle, I just put two carb drops in and left it. Probably my first mistake.
> 
> another mistake was using Light Dry Malt, I didn't know it had an effect on the alcohol content, but now I know not to use it unless I'm going to use two full packets (even though the bag says 250gm > 500gm is all you want)




As far as i know with carb drops you dont have to turn the bottle once filled.. just with sugar / dextrose you need to.

And the malt wasnt a bad thing, just go for 1kg next time  far better than using sugar


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## HeXa (18/5/07)

My first K&K was a Coopers Lager from the microbrew kit..... done by the book with brewing sugar and drops... with only one week in the tub (FG of 1005). 

Was little cloudy when it went in the bottle, but that settled out and was drinkable within a few days. After 3 weeks in the bottle, taste has improved with a good head.

I'm guessing yours got infected from being in the tub for so long. It should of tasted and looked like beer when sampling from the tap.

2nd time is the charm


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## brettprevans (18/5/07)

your beer lokks awfuly sedimenty. how did you poor it? srry bout bad spelling. having wuite a few HB after work. 

pour slowly and look oiut dfor sediment. try another coupple. make sure you sterilize ur equipment well and thaqt you dont pitch the yeast in when the mix is too hot ie less tghan 28C (depending on what sort of yeat ur using).

again srry bout spelling.


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## Pandreas (18/5/07)

Hey Knifepoint, 

I just wanted to say, like everyone else has, that you shouldn't stress about the results of your first few brews....

My first brew looked great but tasted like crud and I need to tip it down the sink. Your first brew may look like crud, but apparently is still kind of drinkable.

I reckon you'll be making a decent beer in no time, just keep trying! Don't end up one of those many people who "USED to brew their own beer"....

This is a grat forum !! Keep reading the threads that interest you and don't worry about the ones that seem complicated. This forum has helped me more than any book and heaps more than the bloke at my HBS. Lots of experienced brewers here to help, you're in good hands! 

Cheers mate!


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## xknifepointx (19/5/07)

okay well I put a few PET bottles in the fridge yesterday and when they got really cold I drank some out of a frosted schooner glass I had sitting in the freezer, the head kept perfect the entire beer and even though it didn't quite taste "right" after about 4 PET bottles I was pissed 

So at least now I have 22 PET bottles left full of beer that can be drinkable as a last resort, so I'll leave it to sit longer in the cardboard box (at the moment, the Coopers starter kit comes in a huge orange box which fits about 30 PET bottles perfectly and closes up to become pretty dark, so it's great.

My PAle Ale I put down yesterday afternoon is now sitting at 24 degrees and looks a lot better than my first batch it hasn't started bubbling yet though but there is a fair bit of froth at the top of the fermenter.


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## wambesi (19/5/07)

As a new brewer myself thought i'd add a few things.
My first one turned out ok, not the best but drinkable, my second however was utter trash and most of the bottles were tossed to make way for a better brew (have some waiting out the back to see if it gets better) - looks like this one stalled during the fermentation process.

With the carb drops I have never turned them and just bottled my 9th brew and they all have carbed up quite nicely. You need to turn them if you use dextrose so it dissolves.

I have only really started using light dried malt recently in larger batches and I must say it really does make a difference, I am only using maybe 250-500g dextrose max now if I use it at all.

And (as many on this site would also suggest) if you have a spare fridge or you can use it on a heat belt if you need to, invest in a fridgemate, do a search and you will find many threads on them, one of the best investments I have made especially keeping lagers at a constant 10 deg.

Might seem a bit full on this early with your brewing but after reading the many posts on this site about it I bought one at my 3rd brew and have not looked back!

Finally keep asking questions and use as many sites as you can for info, there is so much info on these forums it just aint funny, almost everything I have thought about I have found after searching.

Keep up with it and ageing does fix alot of problems (although not always)

Cheers,
Nick


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## Trent (19/5/07)

Knifepoint, if there is a fair bit of froth on top of the brew, that is called Kraeusen, and that means it is fermenting. If the airlock is not bubbling, you have a small leak somewhere, and it is NOTHING to stress about. If you want the airlock to bubble, just give your lid another tighten, and the airlock should start to go.
All the best
Trent


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## delboy (19/5/07)

hey there kifepoint 
just wanted to clear a missunderstanding up about malt for mate putting malt in your beer don,t lower the alc parsay it is the amount .
may i suggest this for your next brew if i may its easy and it will be bonza for a third go as well.
23 ltr batch
1 x coopers pale
700g dry light malt
500g dextrose
250g corn starch
pitch 2 x coopers yeasts 
and dry hop with 50g of POR hops (pride of ringwood ) fresh ones this years batch

14 days in the fermenter . bottle and sit for 28 days to realy condition nice but you can try a few after 14 days if you cant wait.

this will give you a simple aus pale ale without the fuss to confuse you and you will have a brew at about 5.2%
with nice mouth feel and body

simple i know but it realy produces a nice beer with out a complicated effort.

del :beer:


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## Brooksy (19/5/07)

Delboy,

I agree with everything you've written, except: Coopers Yeast and 14 days.

This may be ok if you can keep the temp below 20. With brew temps of 20 and above, I feel 10 days is long enough (12 in winter). 
If you use a good quality yeast, 14 days is probably fine.

Holding a brew temp of 22deg during summer, everytime I used the kit yeast in a brew, anything over 12 days suffered autolysis.

With lowering temps, well, maybe, we'll have to wait and see.

Welcome knifepoint.....


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## braufrau (19/5/07)

xknifepointx said:


> I got given a Coopers kit for christmas, so I used the Coopers Lager that came free with the kit but I left the wort in the barrel for about a month or so, I bottled it and it reads between the beer START <> FINISH line so I know the alcohol content is low, but it also tastes pretty watery and it looks a funny colour.




Do you think it fermented at all?
Maybe the yeast was dead! :blink: 
You did remember to add it didn't you? 

<edit>


oops!
"after about 4 PET bottles I was pissed wink.gif"
of course you did!

I'll just delete the rest of this post.






</edit>


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## 0M39A (19/5/07)

delboy said:


> hey there kifepoint
> just wanted to clear a missunderstanding up about malt for mate putting malt in your beer don,t lower the alc parsay it is the amount .
> may i suggest this for your next brew if i may its easy and it will be bonza for a third go as well.
> 23 ltr batch
> ...



personally i would say he would be better with just a plain old coopers australian pale ale kit (the full green one from the international series or something like that), 1kg light dried malt extract and ferment with safale us-56. dryhop with POR if you can be bothered, but not essential.

that should give you a very drinkable beer no problems at all.


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## DJR (19/5/07)

Why would you dry hop with POR?

That would be good if you liked the taste of freshly mown grass. Personally, i'd be dry hopping with something like Cascade, which will give you a beer with similar flavours to Little Creatures.


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## gazz78 (19/5/07)

Don't worry about your first batch mate  Mine was ok, so I thought ! I have only made 4 batches so far so still a newbie but tasting my first batch now after spending countless hours reading up on here and refining recipes shows how much the first one sucked compaired to what I can manage now. Like anything just takes a bit of time to get it right, best thing I ever did was forget supermarket can stuff and go to my local homebrew store. Ask as many questions as you can about different products and brands, then come on here ask ask away. You'll be quite suprised at just how much info you can soak up.

Best of luck with your next brew


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## danman (19/5/07)

im with braufrau,maybe the yeast was dead.

it was a great homebrew shop owner who told me how to read the numbers on a yeast paket which noone seems to have mentioned. look next to the barcode and you should see numbers like this-6304 for example this came from a morgans ale yeast from my fridge. thesed numbers mean that it was packaged on the 304th day of 2006. Black rock use the code BATCH Y10806. this means the 108th day in 2006 it was packaged. all yeast sachets will have different numbers because they were packed on different days. take a look next time you go to use your yeast,it wont take long to figure out how the companies date their sachets. 

hope this info helps you or anyone new to brewing,as you dont want dead yeast in your fresh wort


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## animal_man (20/5/07)

I believe coopers use plenty of POR both in pale and sparkling ale.


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## Paleman (21/5/07)

xknifepointx, another point no one has mentioned is bottle conditioning and ageing. At 4 weeks in the bottle, its still green.

Try leaving for a month or two more and you'll be pleasantly surprised ! :beerbang:


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## xknifepointx (21/5/07)

I have an old fridge sitting in my old folks garage and after reading a few threads on here I think I'm going to borrow an orbital sander and sand it all back and re-paint it, rip the guts out and drill a tap into the front of it.

I'm just investigating now, theres a guy selling instructions on how to do it all for 5 bucks on the net, I usually dont pay for ebooks but it will help.

surely kegging is easier than bottling.


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## petesbrew (22/5/07)

xknifepointx said:


> I have an old fridge sitting in my old folks garage and after reading a few threads on here I think I'm going to borrow an orbital sander and sand it all back and re-paint it, rip the guts out and drill a tap into the front of it.
> 
> I'm just investigating now, theres a guy selling instructions on how to do it all for 5 bucks on the net, I usually dont pay for ebooks but it will help.
> 
> surely kegging is easier than bottling.




I'm sure there's someone on this site who will tell you how to build your kegorator for free (or a longneck of your fabulous virgin lager!) :beer: Just ask around.


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## maltedhopalong (22/5/07)

Malt doesn't decrease alcohol content.
A month on the yeast cake surely isn't good (???)
If mixing the sediment in makes it more "beery" then something has gone terribly wrong. The sediment should be just yeast and taste a bit like vegemite.
The final gravity doesn't tell you how alcoholic your brew is. The final gravity should be somewhere just above zero. To work out alcohol concentration (very roughly) you take the initial reading, (say 1040 which is next to 5% (I think...)) and minus the final reading (just say 1000 which is next to 0%) and you have your alcohol content (5%)

Just saw a few misconceptions and I wanted to make sure you didn't miss the corrections. I think something's gone wrong with ur brew if mixing in sediment makes it more "beery".


Never fear, you will get it crankin' in no time.


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## FazerPete (22/5/07)

maltedhopalong said:


> The final gravity doesn't tell you how alcoholic your brew is. The final gravity should be somewhere just above zero. To work out alcohol concentration (very roughly) you take the initial reading, (say 1040 which is next to 5% (I think...)) and minus the final reading (just say 1000 which is next to 0%) and you have your alcohol content (5%)


Just to clarify there is a specific formula for calculating alcohol content:

Start S.G. Final S.G. = x
x / 7.36 = % Out of Fermenter
+ 0.5 = % Out of Bottle
Eg. 1040 1006 = 34
34 divided by 7.36 = 4.62
4.62 + 0.5 = 5.1%

The last step of adding 0.5% is only if you are bottling.


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## Lukes (22/5/07)

xknifepointx said:


> I have an old fridge sitting in my old folks garage and after reading a few threads on here I think I'm going to borrow an orbital sander and sand it all back and re-paint it, rip the guts out and drill a tap into the front of it.
> 
> I'm just investigating now, theres a guy selling instructions on how to do it all for 5 bucks on the net, I usually dont pay for ebooks but it will help.
> 
> surely kegging is easier than bottling.



xknifepointx,
Good luck with it all. 
It's great when you can serve up your own draught.

*www.howtobrew.com for brewing*

and heaps right here on converting freezers, fridges and allsorts to serving your brew.
(use the search function) and the site sponsors sell all the stuff you need.

Save your 5 bucks mate for beer line.

And as DJR said don't dry hop with POR or you will have to wait too long for the grass to die.

- Luke


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## 0M39A (22/5/07)

maltedhopalong said:


> The final gravity doesn't tell you how alcoholic your brew is. The final gravity should be somewhere just above zero.



not all the time.

I bottled a stout last night who's FG was 1020. Has been constant on that for 5 days now, and the krausen has all vanished, so its finished alright.


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## maltedhopalong (22/5/07)

Yeah, I know. If the SG's down around 1000 it'll be pretty watery, but that's what you'd expect from a first brew.


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## Thunderlips (22/5/07)

prawned said:


> And the malt wasnt a bad thing, just go for 1kg next time  far better than using sugar


It's a matter of trial and error really.
I've tried 1kg light dry malt in the past but found it too malty for my liking.
These days I use 500gms LDM, 500gms dextrose and about 50gms dry wheat malt.
The dry wheat malt wont effect flavour at all but it does help with head retention.
You can usually buy the malt and dextrose in bulk, like 5kg bags and up, from homebrew shops and you'll save money in the end.

xknifepointx, once you get it right even the kits turn out better than the average megaswill.
Also, don't forget, never wash you beer glasses with dishwashing liquid, the soaps sticks to the glass and effects head retention. Just give them a rinse in water when your finished with them.


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## RobboMC (22/5/07)

Thunderlips said:


> It's a matter of trial and error really.
> I've tried 1kg light dry malt in the past but found it too malty for my liking.
> These days I use 500gms LDM, 500gms dextrose and about 50gms dry wheat malt.
> The dry wheat malt wont effect flavour at all but it does help with head retention.
> ...




I agree that 500g of LDM is about the limit too add to a kit unless you like a really malty beer. However once you're able to boil up a few spoonfuls of hops with that added malt you can embark on the wonderful journey into better brewing; and drink some sensational beer along the way. My latest IPA has three cans of 'goo', 2 cans of kit and a 3rd can of malt, all with serious hopping. The shy is the limit, don't be restrained by a lack of imagination.


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## tommy cooper (22/5/07)

just botteled a coopers pale ale green can done with (700g light malt 500g dex 250g corn starch 20g por)and boiled the dry ingrediants in 3ltrs water 10 mins add to goo and dry hopped with 60g challenger taste test at bottling even though was flat it tasted just like the real thing thanks to other member for his advise. :beer: 

tc


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