# Help On Sessionable Pale Ale



## pmolou (22/2/10)

Just read Radical brews and ready to make my first AG beer, was just looking for some help in regards to my recipe, its loosely based off the Tire-Biter Bitter from Radical brews but a little less bitter and using Australian Hops... I've recently made some big APA's and looking for a very sessionable beer that my mates can enjoy... So pretty much non-offensive.... I'm particularly not sure about the crystal addition and whether is should be a paler crystal like CaraRed or Bairds light Crystal... Cheers any help would be great

*Pac Man's Galaxy Tire-Biter Bitter (19Litre)(March 2010)*

3.60kg Marris Otter (85.57%)
0.45kg CaraMunich (10.71%) 
0.15kg Biscuit Malt (3.57%)

10g Galaxy @60min
10g Galaxy @15min
10g Galaxy @5min
20g Galaxy @Dry-Hop

IBU: 30

Liquor to Grain Ratio: 3:1
Strike Temperature: 70.4Celcius
Mash Volume: 12.6 Litres @65Celcius (60minutes) 
Mash-out: @ 75celcius

Sparge: Till 26 Litres Collected

Mash Efficiency: 
Boil Volume: 26 Litres
Boil Time: 100 minutes
Apparent efficiency:

Yeast: Pac Man

OG: 1.052
FG: 1.011
ABV: 5.33
Colour: 10.6

IBU/SG: 0.577

Apparent attenuation:

[email protected] 16celcius for 3 Days
Let free Rise 4 Days
Crash chilled 1 week
Dry-Hopped in Keg 1 week 
Remove hops, Gelatine and Allow Carbonation for 1 week


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## Phoney (22/2/10)

It will taste like Passionfruit...

That's all I have to offer in the way of advice


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## Hutch (22/2/10)

pmolou said:


> looking for a very sessionable beer that my mates can enjoy... So pretty much non-offensive....



Looks like a tasty recipe IMHO, though the dry-hopping is most likely going too far OTT if the above is your main objective.
Galaxy packs a fair punch, and 20grams dry will be more than subtle, and perhaps a little overboard for an inoffensive sessionable beer.

I'd be shooting for around 25-30IBU's, with a small 10minute and flameout addition, as you've done, and forget the dry-hop.
Galaxy gives a lot of passionfruit-salad, so might not be to everyone's liking.

As your first AG, I'd probably ease off a little on the Caramunich and biscuit, unless you want it to be quite dark and sweet. The Marris otter on it's own makes a great beer, so not much need for heaps of other dark crystal/biscuit in there.


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## Pete2501 (22/2/10)

Galaxy will be nice but phoneyhuh mentions it'll be pretty fruity. 

Get to know your ratios. 

American Amber: 0.619
Blonde Ale: 0.467
California Common: 0.735
Ordinary Bitters: 0.833
American Pale Ale: 0.714
Dry Irish Stout: 0.872
English IPA: 0.800


From there I'd be looking at noble hops that aren't too overpowered but have subtle aromas. I reckon hallertau or Tasmanian Cascade would be right up your ally. I say Tas Cascade because it has a lower AA% and higher Humulene content similar to noble hops. Humulene IIRC is the compound that lends a _smoother _flavour to noble hops. 

You can't go wrong with Cascade. Perhaps add a bit of wheat into your grain bill for mouth feel and head retention at 1-2%.


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## Nick JD (22/2/10)

I don't dry hop galaxy anymore. Used in exactly the same quantities and durations as other hops it makes my beers grassy. Very passionfruity, but also grassy.


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## Pete2501 (22/2/10)

Nick JD said:


> I don't dry hop galaxy anymore. Used in exactly the same quantities and durations as other hops it makes my beers grassy. Very passionfruity, but also grassy.



What temp are you dry hopping?


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## drsmurto (22/2/10)

Pete2501 said:


> Galaxy will be nice but phoneyhuh mentions it'll be pretty fruity.
> 
> Get to know your ratios.
> 
> ...



From where have you plucked those numbers? And what are they? I assume BU:GU ratio but you have quoted them as numbers with no context.

If its BU:GU, the ratio for each style is generally given as a range, not as a number to 3 significant figures.

EDIT - grammar


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## Pete2501 (22/2/10)

DrSmurto said:


> From where have you plucked those numbers? And what are they? I assume BU:GU ratio but you have quoted them as numbers with no context.
> 
> If its BU:GU, the ratio for each style is generally given as a range, not as a number to 3 significant figures.
> 
> EDIT - grammar



http://www.justhomebrewit.com/brewblog/tag/ratio/

I don't know what other ratio they'd be in relation to beer styles. A BU:GU ratio is the only one I know of. :huh:

Edit: This site is where I originally started reading about it. http://beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html


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## glaab (22/2/10)

looks like someones just pulled those numbers outa their ass.


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## Pete2501 (22/2/10)

glaab said:


> looks like someones just pulled those numbers outa their ass.



Hahaha I don't think the beer would taste good if that was the case. 



> To calculate the bitterness ratio we start with the number of international bitterness units or IBUs. For example, lets say we start with a beer that has 30 IBUs. We then take the original gravity of the beer (for example 1.048), take the fractional portion (0.048) and multiply by 1000 to get the number of gravity points. In this example 1.048 would simply be 48 points. Now we take 30 IBUs and divide by 48 points to get a bitterness ration of 0.63. If you are using BeerSmith, the estimated bitterness ration (IBUs/OG points) is displayed just below the color on the recipe design page.



http://www.justhomebrewit.com/brewblog/tag/ratio/

This is the ratio/range for an American Pale Ale based on the BJCP guidelines. 

Bit	Grav	Ratio
30	45	0.666666667
31	46	0.673913043
32	47	0.680851064
33	48	0.6875
34	49	0.693877551
35	50	0.7
36	51	0.705882353
37	52	0.711538462
38	53	0.716981132
39	54	0.722222222
40	55	0.727272727
41	56	0.732142857
42	57	0.736842105
43	58	0.74137931
44	59	0.745762712
45	60	0.75

They're real numbers. I'm not making this stuff up. Honest I'm not. h34r:


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## Scruffy (22/2/10)

Well if it's a Pale Ale you want, ditch the Munich and Biscuits. The next one you make could have the odd Crystal, then you'll know what it does as you compare...

Like the idea of a single hop for your first AG - but as others have said, it'll taste of passion fruit. By all means, if you like the flavour, but I'd personally go with a Goldings, or First Gold, or Fuggles, or Boadicea, or Brambling Cross - Probably go with Target though right now... (if it were me...But then I'm English.)

Pac Man yeast, very good choice! I'm liking that new Thames Valley 1882.

Have fun! And don't worry about ratio's... Save that for CSI Miami...

--Edit-- More typing...


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## Goofinder (22/2/10)

Pete2501 said:


> Hahaha I don't think the beer would taste good if that was the case.
> 
> http://www.justhomebrewit.com/brewblog/tag/ratio/
> 
> ...


So it's the average of the range according to the BJCP guidelines?

So, really, what you mean to say is for an APA to fit the style guidelines you should target a BUGU of around 0.67 - 0.75. Not 0.714.


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## benno1973 (22/2/10)

I'd definitely keep the biscuit, it adds a great toasty flavour to the beer that complements the MO nicely. 150g for a 20L batch should be about right.

Depending which CaraMunich you're using - I'm going to assume it's CaraMunich II - I'd lower it a bit. I find it can be a little sweet and honey-like, and too much is not a good thing. Some Pale Ales can be done completely without Crystal malt, although I like a bit to offset the high bitterness. More like 250g CaraMunich II I'd say. 

Never used Galaxy, so I can't comment, but if it's anything like Nelson Sauvin it'll add a little fruity sweetness of it's own, which means you'll want to lower the crystal even further.


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## Pete2501 (22/2/10)

Goofinder said:


> So it's the average of the range according to the BJCP guidelines?
> 
> So, really, what you mean to say is for an APA to fit the style guidelines you should target a BUGU of around 0.67 - 0.75. Not 0.714.




Yeah that would be heaps more accurate. I suppose using Beersmith I've already got those guides in place when choosing a style so It's not something I have to worry about. :beer:


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## Scruffy (22/2/10)

So what's the average Ratio of beer then?

What the magic maths that makes it good?


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## pmolou (22/2/10)

wow thanks for all the advice... 
I guess whats happened here is I've recently read RAdical brews and want to work my way through some of those recipes (hence malt bill exactly from book),
I like citrusy big hops and am not a fan of goldings and fuggles (sorry guys haha although Bramblings cross sounds alright, and recently have done some big apa's with galaxy and cascade and was way to overpowering so dropped the amounts and will drop the dry-hopping as per your advice) 
And I've heard that PacMan yeast attenuates extremely well, so looked at the rogue recipes which had huge amounts of crystal!!!

So now I'm a bit confused as what to do haha

(I'm also about to get kegging so want to have a killer drinkable beer for the first keg so my mates enjoy it :icon_cheers: )


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## pmolou (22/2/10)

Lowering the CaraMunich to 250grams sounds likea good idea


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## HoppingMad (22/2/10)

Your OP says 'sessionable' so you're wanting something not too heavy - so I reckon your grain list looks like a good balance.

Having used galaxy a couple of times it can come up a bit rough and is a high alpha hop - so you might want to lower your additions of this to make it lighter and more easy drinking.

As some of the guys have suggested here, the hop can create a full-on fruit basket flavour which can mean you have to cellar it a while till it calms down if you overdo it. With this recipe you could easily get away with half as much of this hop and still make a very quaffable brew.

Personally if you're looking beginning AG recipes I wouldn't be looking at Radical Brewing as a guide first up though - much of the stuff in Radical Brewing is about breaking the AG brewing rules - fusing styles, using hops where they shouldn't be, and experimenting with herbs.

Considering you're on your 1st AG, you should get your hands on some more straightforward recipe books like the Jamil book 'Brewing Classic Styles' or the VicBrew Award Winning Brews books that Ross at Craftbrewer sells. Both have great recipes that have quality sessionable beers in them that have picked up gongs. They're both a great place to start, and you won't have to reverse-engineer the recipes to make them simpler. If you've got them already in your bookcase - then even better. 

Cheers!

Hopper.


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## Scruffy (22/2/10)

Apologies for the Pommy hop suggestions...

Your first few brews with the big Yankie hops might be an eye opener - and may cause you to think your brew has malfunctioned! 

I've just put a brew down with Citra. Bloody nice too. ...if you like fruit salad!

If you're doing big hops (and I mean bittering as well), you may need the extra malts/crystals (you could try a bit of Aromatic or Bohemian as well) - or a yeast that does malt, like 1968. (but you've probably got the yeast!)

Oh, you wanted a simple drinkable Pale Ale!! I was leaning towards an oily IIPA!

Yup, keep it simple...

:icon_cheers:


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## glaab (22/2/10)

Pete2501 said:


> This is the ratio/range for an American Pale Ale based on the BJCP guidelines.
> 
> Bit	Grav	Ratio
> 30	45	0.666666667
> ...




Can't the ratio can go from 0.5 to 1.0 for an APA?

30/60=0.5; 45/45=1.0


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## manticle (22/2/10)

HoppingMad said:


> Jamil book 'Brewing Classic Styles'



Great outline of recipes, easy to follow and for once in an American book - metric measurements so no conversion necessary.


If you want a sessionable beer for mates who aren't big hopheads, I'd drop out the dry hopping completely. If you're really keen on using Aussie hops then maybe bitter wit PoR and do a small flavour addition with the glaxy so it's not over the tp. I've had it in a couple of brews and I've found Nelson Sauvin to be far more passionfruity so if you limit the additions I'm sure you could make a nice beer your friends will enjoy.


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## pmolou (22/2/10)

thanks for all the help guys... I have heard of Jamil's brewing classic styles and it seems its all good news so I might purchase that and give it a read and practice brewing my standard Belgians in the time being... (I'm not gonna lie I bought the Belgian Schelde Yeast and am very excited for a sessionable Belgian Pale! could be a good one to start AGing on as well as its predominantly pilsner)

Cheers of to read some Classic styles haha


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## Nick JD (22/2/10)

Pete2501 said:


> What temp are you dry hopping?



Depends on the yeast.


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## Pete2501 (22/2/10)

Just wondering as higher temps = grassy flavours from dry hopping.


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