# No bubbles yet from brew....



## MrGibbon (21/1/13)

Hey Guys, I started a ew batch of amber ale yesterday.
Created the wort from the Maltsters Shovel Amber Ale from the Brewers Choice website.

Got the temperature down to 22 degrees to be able to pitch the yeast and set the fermenter temperature (Fridge with home made controller) to 18 degrees as suggested for S04 yeast and amber ales on a few forums.

Its been roughly 24 hours now since I pitched. And I see no bubbling.
I know it might be slower to get going because of the temperature, but should I be worried?

Its my most "advanced" brew yet, using grains etc and I dont want to have to throw it out 

Thanks in advance for any advice at this point.
Cheers
Gib


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## Cube (21/1/13)

Forget the bubbling to gauge fermentation. Did you biff the yeast in dry or rehydrated? Makes a difference with me. Relax it will start soon enough. Toss the air lock bubbler and lid. Use glad wrap and the lid o-ring to secure the glad wrap around the thread OD. Less to sanitise and you can see in no problems and look at that funky yeast.

Oh - get the temp down to 18


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## np1962 (21/1/13)

As Cube said, don't rely on the airlock bubbling to tell how fermentation is going. It doesn't take much of a leak anywhere around the lid for the CO2 to find an easier way out. Even overtightening the lid can cause leaking.
If you can make out a layer of Krausen forming on the top of your wort you will know it is doing something good.
24 hours is really not a very long time to give the yeast to get going, it can take longer especially if you only use one packet of yeast or you don't aerate your wort before pitching.
Aerating can be done by stirring vigourously with a sanitised spoon or shaking your fermenter. This will help the yeast build up the numbers it need to ferment out your beer.
Not sure I would be suggesting ditch the lid and go gladwrap at this stage in your brewing but it is a viable alternative down the track.
So RDWHAHB. I'm sure your beer will be fine given some time.
Cheers
Nige


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## MrGibbon (21/1/13)

Thanks guys, I did pitch the yeast dry and aerate nicely, the lid is on nice and tight.
Fridge is already at 18 degrees, I love that STC1000....
I'll play the waiting game.
Cheers!


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## Diesel80 (21/1/13)

MrGibbon,

In your hydrometer you should trust (unless it is broken ).

Cheers,
D80


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## MrGibbon (22/1/13)

Eek, prob just getting over excited but still no signs of life after 48hrs.
Not much of a layer of Krausen forming on the top either... very thin.


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## rehab (22/1/13)

I rarely get too much of a krausen to be honest and due to a split in the lid (even after being taped up) I no longer get any airlock activity. Day 3 tomorrow.... take a sample and if it's dropping leave it be. If not maybe rouse again or pitch some more.


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## m3taL (22/1/13)

Kit??

Yeast??

Ingredient list??

Take an sg reading iv had brews I thought were doing nothing for days and its cos they weren't as they were finished......

Some attenuate quietly some go boom...... 

Can u smell beer in the fridge or co2 smell ???

Usually signs.... But nothing will tell you more than your hydrometer, if you don't have one...... Then how can u brew beer??


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## Black Devil Dog (22/1/13)

I had a brew that was dormant for a few days, I decided to pitch more yeast and it came to life.

As others have said, take a hydrometer reading, or several and you will soon know if anything is happening.


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## adryargument (22/1/13)

You forgot to put the kitten in the airlock


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## DarkFaerytale (23/1/13)

where's the god dam kittens


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## Damien13 (23/1/13)

ahhhh I would like to commend everyone who posted a response to this young brewer.

No aggression, only a few mentions of kittens and best of all a friendly welcome...

Mr Gibbon good luck with the brew, I am sure it will turn out just fine.... huzzahhh!


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## pk.sax (23/1/13)

adryargument said:


> You forgot to put the kitten in the airlock


Sacrilege


DarkFaerytale said:


> where's the god dam kittens


They are all in my airlock  fermenting away in starsan on top of a carboy. N it bloops


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## sp0rk (23/1/13)

Oh god, i used gladwrap and there are still kittens!


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## Damien13 (23/1/13)

ahhh Bad Boy Bubby loves to home brew clearly..


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## chunckious (23/1/13)

Damien13 said:


> ahhh Bad Boy Bubby loves to home brew clearly..


Puss Puss stopped breathing


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## MrGibbon (23/1/13)

This is the recipe and method I used....
Morgans Royal Oak Amber Ale
1kg Light Dry Malt
500g Dextrose
Pale Ale grain pack
12g Morgans Fuggles hop "T bag"
1 sachet Safale S04 Yeast

Procedure:
1) The night before, place 5 to 10 liters of water in clean sealed containers in the refrigerator to cool.
2) In a bowl, add the grain to 1 liter of near boiling water (but not boiling), mix well and let steep for 20 minutes.
3) After steeping, pour the grain and liquid through a strainer and collect the liquid in a saucepan.
4) Bring the liquid to a boil and once boiling add the Fuggles hop bag to the pot to boil for 10 minutes. Remove the hop bag and put it to one side.
5) Add the Light Dry Malt and Morgans Royal Oak kit to the fermentor. Use the hot grain liquid to rinse out the can and dissolve the other ingredients. Stir well.
6) Top up the fermentor to 23l using the chilled water from the fridge and tap water to achieve a final temperature between 20-25 degrees. Stir well making sure the mixture is well aerated.
7) Sprinkle on the yeast, tip in the hop bag, seal the fermentor and ferment at 18-20 degrees C for the best results.

The only thing I did different was to mix the wort, dry malt and kit malt in the pot I had the wort in. It took ages to get it all stired in, and the heat was on slightly to help it all blend together. Thanks, god bless the kittens, wont somebody think of the kittens!


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## MrGibbon (23/1/13)

hmm ok, I realise now I didnt add in the 500g dextrose.....
But then again, it doesnt say to in the recipe!

Can I add it now? Oh lordy!


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## Diesel80 (23/1/13)

MrGibbon said:


> hmm ok, I realise now I didnt add in the 500g dextrose.....
> But then again, it doesnt say to in the recipe!
> 
> Can I add it now? Oh lordy!


MrGibbon,

don't worry about adding it. beer will be lower alc but no dramas.
Have you taken a hydrometer reading yet?

You mention you have seen a small krausen layer developing? This can only be a good thing right?
Next time i would rehydrate your yeast in some cooled (to about 30-35) boiled water. It will allow it to wake up properly before being added to the wort.

Careful though, if you rehydrate it at 30-35 then tip it into 20 degree wort it will shock it to sleep, inhibiting its adjustment to the new environment. Edit: so rehydrate it for 15 - 20 mins then slowly add some wort to it until it is down to about 25 degrees (or let it sit covered until it is 25deg on its own accord).


Cheers,
D80


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## MrGibbon (23/1/13)

I'll take a reading tonight when I get home. Hmm, what to take out the sample with though...
I have a couple of hydro's but not a tube to put the sample it, or take one out properly!


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## wbosher (23/1/13)

If you've got even a thin layer of krausen on top I wouldn't bother taking a reading just yet, sounds like it fermenting just fine. Give it a week then take a reading.

Get yourself a tube, every time you stick the hydrometer into the beer you risk an infection. A low risk if you sanitise, but a risk nonetheless.

Just relax, I'm sure it'll be fine.


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## kahlerisms (23/1/13)

It's also possible to waste a lot of beer if you're taking grav readings all the time 

Agree with other sentiments. Stop mucking about with your beer - it's probably fine. Stop trusting the airlock. It's not a good indication of fermentation and it's an even worse indication of lack of fermentation. 

Come back around day 7 and take your first grav reading. Come back again at day 9. If they match, you're good to go. This gives you a few days to go buy something to take your samples with.


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## MrGibbon (23/1/13)

Just took a reading...

First reading before pitching - 1036
Reading just now - 1040

Does that make sense? There seems to be more of a crust/foam on the top too now.

Thanks for the help guys!


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## wbosher (23/1/13)

If you've got krausen, it's fermenting. You may wan't to think about calibrating your hydrometer. Is it glass or Coopers plastic?


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## MrGibbon (23/1/13)

Glass. To be honest I don't know if I'm reading it right, but that's whats its telling me. I'll try another one later.


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## manticle (23/1/13)

Take another sample. You may have unmixed fermentables in the tap. Temperature will also affect the reading (higher temp = lower reading).

You need to fill the tube, place the hydrometer bulb side down in the liquid, give it a spin and allow it t settle a touch. Should read 1.000 in 15-20 deg C tap water unless you live on a really high mountain or somewhere under the ocean.


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## MrGibbon (23/1/13)

Took another reading with a different hydro still shows 1.040.


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## MrGibbon (27/1/13)

w00t!
Its gone from 1040 to 1024 in a week.
Time to secondary? Or wait a while?

Help please!


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## manticle (27/1/13)

Why do you want to put into a secondary vessel?


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## carniebrew (27/1/13)

If you're going to transfer to a secondary, now would be the time. But do you need to? Many don't bother, particularly with kit brews such as an Amber Ale with S-04 yeast....you're not exactly gunning for a see through lager style of brew....and you don't have a ton of hop matter from a boil kettle....and you haven't mentioned any use of finings.

Personally I'd leave it in the primary until it reaches FG and stays there for a few days....16 gravity points in a week is actually pretty slow, but I understand S-04 can be like that (I haven't used it myself yet, but have a pack in the fridge ready go on an Irish Red Ale at some stage).


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## hsb (27/1/13)

Sounds like you've made alcohol! Congrats! :kooi:

I would leave it be, no rush, spur of the moment decision making is the number one killer of beer!

Still have krausen? If you do, I'd leave it for another week before taking more readings.


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## MrGibbon (27/1/13)

Yeah, I'll leave her then for a few days and continue to take readings.

I was going to secondary to get rid of some yeasty taste and cloudyness Ive had in the past.
I have a filter setup ready to try out so that should do it all for me before I bottle / keg.
Its currently going to filter at a 5 micro level so I don't remove any taste.

Cheers guys!


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## manticle (27/1/13)

Racking will reduce sediment etc. I tend to do it for bulk priming now though. Used to do it earlier (around 1020) but find current process works just as well.

Multiple reasons to rack and multiple not to. Best to know what to expect before doing it.


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## doon (27/1/13)

i never rack anymore. Extra time on yeast seems to do the beer good, have a filter and never use it just gelatin into fermenter.


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## carniebrew (27/1/13)

doon said:


> i never rack anymore. Extra time on yeast seems to do the beer good, have a filter and never use it just gelatin into fermenter.


Doon, where do you get your gelatin, how much do you use and how?


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## NewtownClown (27/1/13)

carniebrew said:


> Doon, where do you get your gelatin, how much do you use and how?


 Supermarket, convenience store..... Gelatin


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## doon (27/1/13)

from supermarket Wards edible gelatin, in a little purple container. Usually crash chill wort for a day or two, then boil kettle let it sit for a bit to cool some, stick one teaspoon (sometimes two, which may be two much) into a glass jug pour on water and stir till dissolved. i then put this into fermenter and back in fridge for 3 days or so then keg.

I find the beer gets progressively clearer once in the keg, but it starts off pretty clear. Just how i do it may or may not be right but works for me


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## doon (27/1/13)

here is what i use


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## carniebrew (27/1/13)

Oh ok thanks, I thought I recall reading that "Gelatine" from the supermarket was different to the "gelatin" brewers use in their fermenters. I guess not....

The 3 days you let your FV sit with the gelatine in it...is that at crash chill temps?


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## pk.sax (27/1/13)

But if you're ccing for 3 days, would you really need the gelatine?
I've never used gelatine so I'm interested in knowing if anyone has noticed a lot of difference between plain cc to 1-2C and gelatine + cc.


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## doon (27/1/13)

i have crash chilled for a week and still have unclear beer come into keg. Gelatin just seems to get all the shit to drop better. Carnie yeah all at CC temps


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## doon (27/1/13)

latest brew i put gelatin straight into keg, beer in at 18 deg and into keg fridge at 5 deg for 4 days. carbed for 48hours, first few glasses were like mud, now its looking pretty good, no doubt will clear up over next few days. Had never done it this way before seems like i got similar results to previous way


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## DUANNE (27/1/13)

i cc at -1 for up to a week at a time and by the time i rack to the keg most of the shit has dropped out without gelatine. takes about a week in the keg to really settle out after transfering though.


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## Black Devil Dog (27/1/13)

I never use gelatine and always have clear beer.
Ferment usually for about 2 weeks, cc for a week, store for a month or two before drinking. Works for me.


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## doon (27/1/13)

i am way too impatient to be waiting that long! As soon as my beer is in keg i want to drink the barstad. I only have room for 3 kegs in keg fridge so usually fermenting the next as i am finishing the last


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## Black Devil Dog (27/1/13)

I've got 7 kegs now so time is on my side.


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## doon (27/1/13)

yep. i really need a bigger keg fridge. But my wife lets me keep it in the lounge next to the couch so not complaining at the moment


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## MrGibbon (27/1/13)

So another few days in the primary till the readings settle, then what do you think, another week in a secondary and then bottle / keg it?
Dunno, this wont be my last brew of this beer, so Im willing to try both methods I spose.


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## bradsbrew (27/1/13)

If your bottling why bother with secondary? If you are bottling wait for it to finish, leave it a couple more days then drop the temp to 0-1 deg for a few days then bottle. If your kegging wait for it to finish, leave it a couple more days then drop the temp to 0-1 deg for a few days then keg. Whilst you are filling the keg dissovle a good teaspoon of gelatine in a small glass of boiled water and tip it in the keg. You should get a pretty clear beer after a week. This method is good but the yeast will get stirred if you move the keg around in the fridge.

Cheers


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## doon (27/1/13)

yeah just get the secondary thing out of your head its not needed. Increases risk of infections etc


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## m3taL (27/1/13)

cant you rack to a keg, purge it and let it sit at room temps?? surely you would need to let your beer age???? i tend to try a bottle after a week and the beer is terrible, give it 3 more weeks its drinkable another week and its snappy as........

i cant see how force carbing can age beer faster?????

and obviously your first few pours would contain all the yeast trub that drops too the bottom??

i know bottling is a pain but its got to make better beer??


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## doon (27/1/13)

am sure there are certain beers that should age a bit, they do tend to get better towards end of keg but meh who cares still tastes pretty damn good fresh


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## m3taL (27/1/13)

doon said:


> yeah just get the secondary thing out of your head its not needed. Increases risk of infections etc


Seen this debated 1000's of times however it shouldnt pose any risk at all if Cleaning & saintization is thorough, and the correct method of racking into the secondary with a hose into the bottom of the vessel to not cause any airation, I open the tap partially until the line is full and then covered with wort then open it up flat out..... usually i try to rack to sec at around 1015ish so that it can produce a little co2 to purge off.... then it will be safe, after about 5 days i then throw the cube in the fridge at 1c'ish for a week, pull it out the night before i bottle to let it get back upto room temp...... bottle and then age 35+ days

Edit,

This is after drinking my first two shithouse brews....... im now part way through my 3rd which was a Extract that is around 40 days old now, iv got 2 more brews in the cupboard ar 28 days and 5 days old today......tasted both last night 5 day was pretty rough 28 day old one was still too green i reckon.....


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## carniebrew (27/1/13)

Black Devil Dog said:


> I never use gelatine and always have clear beer.
> Ferment usually for about 2 weeks, cc for a week, store for a month or two before drinking. Works for me.


Store in what BDD, bottles?


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## doon (27/1/13)

yeah i just cant see the point. Means i remove one step from the process, less cleaning etc if i have two brews in fridge at same time easy as just leave in primary, set tempmate and crash chill no stuffing around moving to two other vessels


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## m3taL (27/1/13)

doon said:


> yeah i just cant see the point. Means i remove one step from the process, less cleaning etc if i have two brews in fridge at same time easy as just leave in primary, set tempmate and crash chill no stuffing around moving to two other vessels


Yep, What works for fred may not work for paul, and bob does it differnly to Paul, Peter, Fabio, Fred, Jane and Joe.........

Thats what makes brewing so Unique and such a good hobby 



Black Devil Dog said:


> I never use gelatine and always have clear beer.
> Ferment usually for about 2 weeks, cc for a week, store for a month or two before drinking. Works for me.


Were on the same page here mate, I dont see the point in adding another "Adjunct" if thats what you would call gelatine when time can do the same  Cold Crashed a Grain brew that had hop matter into the fermenter and it bottled up near clear and after 1 week is seethrough


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## NewtownClown (27/1/13)

carniebrew said:


> Store in what BDD, bottles?





Black Devil Dog said:


> I've got 7 kegs now so time is on my side.


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## NewtownClown (27/1/13)

m3taL said:


> ..."Adjunct" if thats what you would call gelatine when time can do the same  Cold Crashed a Grain brew that had hop matter into the fermenter and it bottled up near clear and after 1 week is seethrough


"Finings" 

And if one doesn't have "Time"?

Fining's, crash chilling and filtering are all methods used to reduce the time it takes for a beer to condition...


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## m3taL (27/1/13)

NewtownClown said:


> "Finings"
> 
> And if one doesn't have "Time"?
> 
> Fining's, crash chilling and filtering are all methods used to reduce the time it takes for a beer to condition...


Cant rush perfection 

Nah i understand that for sure

like i said with the peter, paul, jane and joe.... n a few others..... everyone has the methods that suits their needs thats what makes it unique

:drinks: as long as you love your own beer, and the fruits of your labour who gives a **** what others think


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## m3taL (27/1/13)

btw: iv been over indulging in the fruits of my labour a little too much the sarvo


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## Black Devil Dog (28/1/13)

carniebrew said:


> Store in what BDD, bottles?


Kegs mainly, but I do have 80 odd Grolsch and Altenmunster swingtops. Just picked up 3 more kegs a couple of weeks ago, got 7 now so most of my beers will get to age for a while.


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