# Mulberry Wine.



## Dave70

My parents have got a giant Mulberry tree at their holiday house that produces buckets of fruit in season.
Although mum knocks up a mean mulberry pie, the penny finally dropped that I can ferment them and turn it into drink, as you do.
Ive never made wine anything in my life, so I have a few questions for ya'll.

Is there a formula for working out say weight of berries = liters of final product?
How do you process the berries most efficiently - juicer or crush? 
Would the procedure be the same, or at least similar to regular wine making?
Can I use my existing beer making gear to ferment the wine in?
Could you carbonate (either by way of bottle priming or C02 kegging) to give the final product a slight fizz? -think Lambrusco.
Does the final product need to be aged to get the best from it?

Any tips or recipes would be much appreciated.

cheers.


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## Tanga

Just a disclaimer - I know very little about this first hand - just what I've read (here and elsewhere) because this is such a cool topic. I recommend Berry's (what a cool name for for a winemaker) winemaking book. It's old school, but it's easy to understand for a modern beer maker and the system doesn't seem to have changed much - though personally I'd substitute dextrose for sugar. Check second hand book stores.

You can use your beer making equipment. You will need the addition of a siphon hose for racking - you can go for just some food-grade plastic hose, or a proper winemaking one with a filter on the bottom. Be aware that it'll take much longer than beer to ferment out, an average time seems to be 6 weeks for which a fermenter will be tied up. I'm in the process of trying to get hold of some 10L springwater bottles because it's a more manageable volume, and cheap (I'm so broke right now it's crazy).

Freezing the fruit is meant to be benificial for breaking down the cell walls and getting more juice. I personally would use campden tablets (suphur metabisulphate tablets - you should be able to get them / it from Big W or your local brewshop) to get rid of bugs and nasties in the brew, but if you or someone who drinks this is suphur sensitive (some asthmatics are) and can't drink normal wine then you will need to use an alternative system. Some people on here are anti-met and can probably give you alternatives. Boiling is one, but personally not one I like the sound of.

I'm not sure of recipes though - any blackberry / raspberry wine recipe should be useable though.

EDIT: OK, looks like I'm wrong on timing. The recipes I can see all seem to take much, much longer - even with the addition of nutrient.

Good-luck. I'm incredibly jealous of your tree - let us know how it goes.


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## Dave70

Thanks. 
I've missed my window this year however, only got a few bags frozen and the tree is located about eight hours drive away at Yamba...
You gotta be quick to beat the birds also -and you can _sure_ tell where they've been.


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## Chookers

you can use your beer gear for wine making, but only for the primary fermentation, dont leave it in there for more than two weeks. Wine needs to be put into glass or wood, I cant remember the reasons exactly but I think it has something to do with leaching flavours out of the plastic since wine has a higher alc.. 

Also a crusher would probably be better for extracting your juice in that it will save time as it can do bigger batches. Once you get the juice check the S.G readings, and then you can calculate how much sugar you need to add if any.. I havent had mullberries for ages but from memory they didnt have much flavour, you might need to add some acid mix or let them ferment on the skinns like wine for a few days just to get the flavour and tannins. In my book it says how much extra sugar to add to s.g readings. I'll have to look it up.


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## barls

i call bullshit on the whole two weeks thing mate. ive been doing meads and cysers for a while now and some of them have been in plastic for more than 2 weeks with no bad effects. ive got a mead thats 5 weeks old at least still in its little 15L plastic fermentor, ill split it up when i get a chance.
the reason they give is oxygen permeability of plastic is than that glass and will eventually lead to oxidation.


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## Tanga

Hey Dave, what state are you in (location not mental - though I'm sure that's interesting =p). If you're in SA and serious about this (next year if not this year) then I'll be happy to lend you my winemaking gear - 5 gallon (so around about 22L) glass fermenter, corker, siphon hose, for this - so no outlay except a buick load of fruit. I would love to see how it all turned out (or even taste) and wouldl be willing to put some time in assisting too.


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## Chookers

barls said:


> i call bullshit on the whole two weeks thing mate. ive been doing meads and cysers for a while now and some of them have been in plastic for more than 2 weeks with no bad effects. ive got a mead thats 5 weeks old at least still in its little 15L plastic fermentor, ill split it up when i get a chance.
> the reason they give is oxygen permeability of plastic than glass and will eventually lead to oxidation.




Well I've never done it myself just going off what I've read. I didnt know what the reason was..

anyway I've found the table in cj berry's book but its for grape juice.. it says if your juice is s.g 1050 and you want to have an alc % of 10% you need to add 11 ounces (which is roughly 255g), if you want 14% its 20oz (460g) 18% 32oz (735g) but in this case I would go with 
EC-1118 yeast.. 

here Im quoting C.J Berry, apparently 56g of sugar will raise the SG of 1 uk gallon (4.5) by 0.005 ( 5 degrees og gravity). So you need about 1lb 6.5oz (630g) of sugar to arrive at an SG of 1090(12%) from 1040 (5.1%).. I hope this info helps.

*note I am not experienced in this and only going off what I have read*

Here is C.J J Berry's Recipe for Mulberry Wine

1.5 kg Mulberries
280ml Red Wine Concentrate
1kg Sugar
1 Campden tablet
4.5L Water
Yeast and Nutrients
Pectic Enzyme

Wash Mulberries, put them and the concentrate in to a polythene bucket. Pour boiling water when cool add the crushed campden tablet, the pectic Enzyme and half the sugar, along with the yeast and nutrients. Stir well. Ferment for four days on pulp, then strain into fermenting jar, add remaining sugar, and ferment, rack and bottle in the usual way. A Bordeaux yeast is preferable.


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## barls

chookers, i know that is what you have read but some of the books are a little dated now as new things are found out. im not trying to come off grumpy, i went back edited my post to make more sense after seeing it in your quote. i missed a couple of words while surfing on my phone.
as ive been told a few times now by others, it doesnt matter how you make it just so long as you enjoy it. thats the main thing.


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## Airgead

barls said:


> i call bullshit on the whole two weeks thing mate. ive been doing meads and cysers for a while now and some of them have been in plastic for more than 2 weeks with no bad effects. ive got a mead thats 5 weeks old at least still in its little 15L plastic fermentor, ill split it up when i get a chance.
> the reason they give is oxygen permeability of plastic than glass and will eventually lead to oxidation.



+1 on that. You don't want long term storage (years) as they do have higher oxygen permeability than glass but several months is fine. The real danger of oxygenation is in the transfers. You ar emor elikely to have it oxidise while transferring into glass than you are storing it in plastic for a while.

Never done mulberry wine myself but as a rough guide - 

For a 4.5l batch - 
1-2kg mulberries.
Freeze then crush.
Add to fermenter with maybe 1kg sugar (you will bneed to check gravity and adjust to the OG you want depending on how sweet the berries are)
Add yeast nutrient
Top up to 4.5l with water & mix/oxygenate well.
Rehydrate & pitch a good wine yeast.

Rack off the fruit pulp after 5 days & continue fermentation in secondary.

Will probably ferment out in around 4 weeks. Leave to clear & bottle. 

You may need to adjust acid depending on how much you get from the berries.

Age in the bottle for 6 months or so.

Cheers
Dave


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## Dave70

Tanga said:


> Hey Dave, what state are you in (location not mental - though I'm sure that's interesting =p). If you're in SA and serious about this (next year if not this year) then I'll be happy to lend you my winemaking gear - 5 gallon (so around about 22L) glass fermenter, corker, siphon hose, for this - so no outlay except a buick load of fruit. I would love to see how it all turned out (or even taste) and wouldl be willing to put some time in assisting too.



Thats mighty kind of you ,Tanga. Theres hope for this joint yet.
I'm in NSW so the distance thing could kind of be a fly in the ointment. But I promise I'll post you a bottle if it if it turns out.
As for my mental state, well, we've got a bambino on the way in about two weeks time.
My child owning mates have all informed me I can look foward to more frequent sex, quality sleep and surplus of free time and cash. So I'm happy as a clam.
Makes me wonder why I didin't have kids years ago..


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## Tanga

Doh! Well I plan to play around with some wine stuff in the next year too depending on availabilty (and cost) of ingredients, so I'll let you know how it all goes. I'm sure that with your bub arriving soon you'll have pleeeeeeeeeeenty of time to brew =p.


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## Diggs

Hey all, rehashing an old thread here.

About to give this a run as I've been given about 5kg of frozen mulberrys. I don't see anywhere any mention of fermentation temperature? Or being that it's wine does it just ferment out at ambient temperature? I am assuming that would make now a good time to get this on the go? 

Thanks


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## Bribie G

Yes ambient should be fine, when I lived on Bribie Island the ambient in my brick n tile garage stayed at just under 20 from May to September though Brisbane can be a bit nippier . I made a shedload of mulberry wine when I lived in Maryborough QLD at ambient.


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## Dave70

Well now, how times change.
I now have my very own Mulberry tree and two kids. 

Never did get around to making a batch. The birds beat me to the berries on the oldies plant, and my own tree is yet to fruit, 

So there you go.


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## Bridges

Dave70 said:


> My child owning mates have all informed me I can look foward to more frequent sex, quality sleep and surplus of free time and cash. So I'm happy as a clam.
> Makes me wonder why I didin't have kids years ago..


So Dave obviously all went well as above given two kids...


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## Dan2

I'm sure your kids will enjoy the tree. I have fond memories of climbing my step dads GIANT mulberry tree in nothing but my undies and getting covered in juice that stains the skin for days. Absolutely beautiful fruit, and an extremely tough tree.
He (step dad) has been making a few mulberry wines over the last few years and they are pretty darn good. He did one with no campden which he assures me was great when very young, but we both agreed that at around 6 months (when I got a taste) it was barely drinkable. He now uses an absolute minimum of sulphites and the results are fantastic.
Don't see him often these days, but next time I'll see if I can swap a longneck of porter for his recipe/method and post it here


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## Beersuit

So it's Mulberry season again and I have picked about 7 kg so far and the tree is still loaded with unripe fruit. I was hoping someone had a recipe for wine they wouldn't mind sharing. Is it as simple as berries, sugars, nutrient, enzymes and yeast?


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## pcqypcqy

Beersuit - for once I'm giving you advice!

Yes, it's pretty much that easy. You won't get as much juice or sugar as you would a grape, so you probably will be infusing the fruit into water and then adding sugar to achieve a target OG. I didn't have a hydrometer when I made it years ago, but I think I used around 4kg of fruit and maybe 2kg of sugar based on some recipe, I have no idea what gravity this gave. (this is all from memory).

A bit of pectinase helps release the juices from the fruit, I believed I grabbed some from the shop in 2013 when I made this. Still have that packet too, not sure if it goes off but there's plenty there if you want to try it?

Enzyme and yeast, let it ferment, takes a few weeks. Then rack the wine off the fruit and let it condition in a carboy for a while before bottling. 6 months minimum seems to be the go for wines, but the longer the better.

I'll bring my book to the meeting on Saturday, the recipe is in there alongside the beers. I should be able to dig out a bottle of the product as well. I've only tried the one about a year ago, it was a bit thin but it wasn't bad.


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## Beersuit

Cheers Dave I look forward to trying it.


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## pcqypcqy

In the meantime, look up 'country wine', this is the term that covers non-grape fruit wines.


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## scmgre

Judith Glover's recipe1 gallon)
Ripe mulberries 1.8 kg
sugar 1.6 kg
Camden tablet 1
pectin enzyme 1 tsp
water 4 liters
wine yeast
yeast nutrient
1. Strip the mulberries from the stalks crush them well and cover with 2.8 liters of boiling water (5 pints)
2. When cool add the crushed Camden tablet and pectin enzyme and leave to steep for 24 hours
3. bring another 1.1 liters of water to the boil and dissolve the sugar in it
4. when the syrup has cooled to blood heat, add it to the mulberry pulp together with the yeast and nutrient
5. cover well and leave in a warm place to ferment for 3 days, stirring twice daily (shes from the UK so UK values of warm)
6. strain the liquid off the pulp and measure if necessary adding cooled boiled water to make up to 1 gallon (4.5 liters).
7. Transfer to a fermenting jar, fit bung and air-lock and leave to ferment on, racking when the wine starts to clear.
8. when the fermentation has finished working and the wine has cleared bottle and store in a cool dark place to mature for at least 9 months preferably a year.

that's from her book drink your own garden(1979)


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## Beersuit

Thanks for that Gareth. I will post something in the next few days with amounts, gravitys and structure for a 20lt batch. I have 3 recipes that I'm compiling into 1 so it should be good.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Mulberry juice is normally around 15% sugar when completely ripe (eg black and squishy and not very palatable). This is the stage at which you want to get them before making wine: if they are still nice and tart as berries the wine will be really acidic and the citric acid level will be high enough to be inhibitory to many yeasts. Even when fully ripe it's not unusual to see levels of citric over 20 g/l in mulberry juice.

The main point of the sugar addition / dilution in the recipes posted above is to deal with the acid level. If you get them ripe enough this is less of a problem.

The sugars are roughly half and half fructose and glucose so best fermented with a wine yeast. If I were doing this I'd use DV10 and hold off the sugar additions until you've reached 0oBrix and then add glucose only, thus avoiding problems with catabolite repression.


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## pcqypcqy

And then what do you do 3 years later when it just tastes of acetone? Asking for a friend.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

By acetone I assume you mean ethyl acetate (nail polish remover)*. It's produced by esterification of acetic acid. Together they are known as volatile acidity (VA) which is symptomatic of infection.

The keys to VA avoidance are sound fruit and a clean ferment; SO2 is your friend here.

BTW I can remove the acetic and ethyl acetate but the process involved is complex and expensive. You are better off tipping it down the sink and starting again.


* Acetone itself is propanone, very uncommon to have it formed by fermentation unless you have some truly weird bugs doing your fermenting. One fermentation that produces acetone involves a _Clostridium_, from the genus which contains the bacteria that cause tetanus, gangrene and botulism. They are obligate anaerobes.


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## pcqypcqy

I had a batch that I made 2013. Pulled a bottle out about a year ago to taste, we all thought it was OK. Thin on body but otherwise it was mulberry wine.

Pulled some out to share with Beersuit at our TooSOBA meeting on the weekend, and the first 3 bottles were all ethyl acetate and undrinkable. The 4th had lots as well, but there was some hint of the former wine in there once you got past it.

When does this infection/ferment take hold? Because the bottle I fished out last year tasted out really good. So either it happened in the last 12 months, or I was very lucky in pulling an uninfected bottle through random chance. The other bottles stayed in the exact same storage conditions, undisturbed since that first bottle was pulled.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Often it takes hold when the wine runs out of SO2. Were these bottled under cork?


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## pcqypcqy

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Often it takes hold when the wine runs out of SO2. Were these bottled under cork?


No, they were very dodgily bottled in recycled stelvins, with a heat shrink cap over.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

OK. There's probably some oxygen getting past the seal somehow. Eventually it used up all the SO2 then the bugs had a party. Was there any residual sugar in the wine?


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## pcqypcqy

Not sure, I made this before I had any brewing gear or knowledge, so didn't even measure with a hydrometer. 

I used a wine yeast and after racking off the fruit it fermented at warmish spring temperatures for a few weeks before bottling. My guess is no, but I honestly can't say.

I didn't had any SO2 in any form (not even camden tablets), so unless it was naturally present it had nothing to preserve it other than co2 and alcohol.


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## Beersuit

What type of bottling do you suggest is better lyrebird?

I was hoping to get away from using s02 by flushing the bottles with c02 and again purging headspace before popping a lid on.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Bottling with no / low SO2 is not in my area(s) of expertise.


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## Beersuit

Sorry I thought it might be up your ally. 

Anyone ?


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## Airgead

Never used so2. The missus is allergic. It's absence never seemed to cause a problem.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

I also suffer from SO2 sensitivity (the usual asthma like reaction, not a real IgE mediated allergy which is much, much rarer).

Occasionally this causes problems at work when exposure to the gas stops me breathing for a couple of minutes or so but over the years I've learnt to deal with it. My trigger level is about 1 ppm MSO2 and that's fairly rarely achieved.

Like many others, I went through a low SO2 use phase in the late 90's but I've since learnt the error of my ways.


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## pcqypcqy

My limited understanding is that campden tablets provide a bit of SO2 for the garagiste wine maker - most recipes seem to include them. Any truth to that do you think Lyrebird? 

http://www.eckraus.com/blog/campden-tablets-what-they-can-and-cant-do


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## Airgead

I went into a no so2 phase in the 90s and have never started using it again. 

Most of what I make is mead but I do some fruit wine as well. I only ever rack once when fermentation is done. 

I do add oak dominoes to most of my meads. 

Sanitise bottles well. Give the corks a sanitiser rinse as well. Bottle carefully to minimise agitation. Cork quickly. No problem. 

Actually, the only one I do have problems consistently with is plum mead. Anything with plums in it oxidises like crazy. No idea why. Strawberry - fine, raspberry - fine, elderberry - fine, cherry - fine, every other berry - fine, plum - crap.


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