# Cooper Home Brew Cans - Difference Between Each Series?



## Fermented (29/10/08)

'Evening all!

Sorry to be asking a question which may have already been asked, but is there a significant difference between the regular, Brewmaster and Premium series cans from Coopers?

I have a Leffe Blond clone just about to be bottled and want to do something quick and tasty but don't have enough time to go to my LHBS so was thinking to cheat and grab something from the supermarket. I've got a BE2 equivalent and a can of Coopers Light Malt to hand, so was thinking to use that.

In short, I don't want to have lesser quality for the sake of haste.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## peas_and_corn (29/10/08)

During my brief foray into kit brewing I found no real difference between the 'premium' and normal cans- the best way to improve the flavour is not what can you use, but how you brew them and what you brew the cans with


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## Fermented (29/10/08)

Cool. Thanks for the straight answer. 

This is not for a fussy brew, just something a couple of steps ahead of megaswill. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Bribie G (29/10/08)

I only use the original series, as a 'filler' in a partial mash brew, because they are a good cheap dose of fermentable goop with little aroma hops but some basic bittering 'for free'.

Example: a can of original series Lager with two k of grain malt, some flavour and aroma hops, a better yeast etc.

I once did a Bavarian Lager and was completely underwhelmed.

The stout is not too bad and makes a nice 'toucan', and the lager, as a 'toucan' is a pleasant beer that holds its own with many commercial beers such as VB.

However if you are into kit brewing and want to spend fourteen bucks, go for a Morgans any day. And use plenty of adjuncts like light dried malt extract, a better yeast such as Nottingham etc.


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## peas_and_corn (29/10/08)

+1 on the Morgan's cans. When I skipped from Coopers to Morgan's things got a lot better. I also recommend you use ESB cans, they are not only easy to brew with, but make handy containers to use for storage.


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## Jase71 (29/10/08)

Another great thread that I'll be following with interest. Base Goop + educated extras seems to make sense to me when there's a difference of up to $10 between a Coopers Supermarket vs a HBS can. The generall concensus amonst the more experienced hobbyists here is that you're all adding & refining the kits anyway, so why bother with a twenty buck can when you're adding refinements such as specialty grains, extra hops, good yeasts and the like. Yes ? No ? Is this going to start a flame war ? 

After putting down my first one of a Coopers Brewmaster Series Wheat with liquid wheat malt and Tettnangers, and having a wee dram this morning when I checked the gravity, it's tasting very bloody good, and I can't wait (but invariably will) to get it bottled, conditioned, and into the guts about four weeks from now. But I'm taking the 'basic kit' route for the next, a supermarket Coopers with 'tweaking'. And planning to repeat the exact same basic kit a few times back-to-back so I can 'tweak' individual elements and determine what works well. To me, it a more logical experiment if I'm to stay on the same goop for a while, twist & turn one or two variables in each brew, and take notes on what works and what doesnt. I figure that's going to be the best way to establish how each variable works, being that it's untainted by varying kit styles. 

Not that money-saving is the issue here. F**k, I've spent $120, then another $70, then another $10 in the last week - and I already had a fermenter ! I keep repeating the mantra "You gotta spend money to, um, save money". The carton of Schwelmer bought about an hour ago was strictly for the swing-top bottles, so I'm counting that as incidental collatteral damage :icon_cheers:


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## peas_and_corn (29/10/08)

I certainly hope it doesn't start a flame war...

But certainly, the best approach for kit brewing is to use the kit in conjunction with other ingredients- that is, at the very least some LDME, if not some hops, grains etc etc. Couple it with good temperature control and you'll have a fine beer made. There's a monster thread somewhere on the forum with kit recipes on it, and that will certainly help any budding kit brewer on what sort ofthing you can do with a kit brew.


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## flattop (29/10/08)

Jase i am doing the same mantra, 2x fermenters and half a dozen cans of various LME's and 45 pet bottles later and i am still spending... spend to save (tasted my first brew off the tap a week after pitching and thought fark what have i done!!!!) but i drank a 750 of my mates Bavarian kit today (standard ESB kit, no extra's) and it was fanfarkintastic, clear, crisp and lovely an i figure if i can make a few brews of that quality it would be worth the investment.


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## Goofinder (29/10/08)

I reckon if you're just going to brew kit & kilo (of dex or brew enhancer) then it's worth spending a couple of extra bucks to get the 'premium' kits. If you're adding lots of malt, hops and steeping grains, stick to the basic kits like Coopers Lager or Real Ale as a base and work from there.


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## Jase71 (29/10/08)

flattop said:


> ....tasted my first brew off the tap a week after pitching and thought fark what have i done!!!!



Oh you poor bugger. Does it taste that bad ? Luckily, my bubbler's going to be awesome i think. I tell a lie here when I speak of this one as 'my first' - gave it a go two years ago on borrowed equipment, and it was such a bad outcome after conditioning that it went straight down the sink. It was a Morgans Pils from memory, with no regard for temperatures, and dometic sugars somewhere in the mix. Also think it was infected. 

This time I have the advantage of a shitload of good information at hand. 




Goofinder said:


> I reckon if you're just going to brew kit & kilo (of dex or brew enhancer) then it's worth spending a couple of extra bucks to get the 'premium' kits. If you're adding lots of malt, hops and steeping grains, stick to the basic kits like Coopers Lager or Real Ale as a base and work from there.



Yes, that's my theory as well. Why mess with lots of premium kits until you get to know the subtelties of additives. 

As an aside to this discussion, I can't believe the instructions on a can of regular Coopers. It basically suggest that you simply throw in the goop, add sugar (to the genuinly uninformed, that reads as white table sugar), wait a while and chuck it into bottles. I'll bet there's as many people per year that swear off home brewing as there are that take up the torch and get serious about brewing a good bevvy.


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## buttersd70 (29/10/08)

Jase71 said:


> As an aside to this discussion, I can't believe the instructions on a can of regular Coopers. It basically suggest that you simply throw in the goop, add sugar (to the genuinly uninformed, that reads as white table sugar), wait a while and chuck it into bottles. I'll bet there's as many people per year that swear off home brewing as there are that take up the torch and get serious about brewing a good bevvy.



Absolutely. And thats something I can't quite understand, from a business perspective. Yes, they need to make it seem easy, otherwise people will be put off. But on the other hand, the poor results do make people swear off. If the instructions provided by the manufacturer erred slightly more toward the quality side, rather than the ease of it, surely they would decrease the loss of customers due to people getting bad results and giving up. Even just something as simple as stating temperatures under 22C instead of the 26 or whatever it is they say....

End OT rant.Sorry.


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## Gavo (29/10/08)

Some very good advice here about the sins of the kit instructions, and how to improve a kit by using dextrose instead of sugar and better still malt instead of sugar or dextrose. Fermented if you want a coopers kit that you can get from the supermarket, go for the Real Ale or the Australian Pale Ale. Both of these kits go well and are easily available. Use a better yeast, say US05, and you are on to a quick and easy brew.

Cheers
Gavo


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## quantocks (29/10/08)

I've just done my second lot of Coopers Real Ale and I must say it's by far the best kit I've done (only done 7 so far, two being Real Ale)

to get a good range of easily accessible kits Fermented, try KMart at Chatswood Chase. the Coles up here only has Homebrand/Homeland? Draught kits and Coopers Lager or Draught generally, but KMart has a whole wall of different types and also has dried fermentables you are after


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## Gavo (29/10/08)

quantocks said:


> try KMart at Chatswood Chase. the Coles up here only has Homebrand/Homeland? Draught kits and Coopers Lager or Draught generally,



What sort poor cousin of Coles do you have? :huh: I have not been to a Coles yet where I can't find at least all of the Coopers Original range, not that I am looking for kits anymore, and I am talking some of the smaller country coles stores.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Pollux (30/10/08)

gavo said:


> What sort poor cousin of Coles do you have? :huh: I have not been to a Coles yet where I can't find at least all of the Coopers Original range, not that I am looking for kits anymore, and I am talking some of the smaller country coles stores.
> 
> Cheers
> Gavo.




Coles in Broadway shopping centre stocks ZERO homebrew stuff at all...

That said, bilo and kmart in the same centre both stock a fairly decent suppply..


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## Bizier (30/10/08)

BUT the Broadway Bi-Lo does, as does the K-Mart.

Ed: Oh yep... I'm an idiot.


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## AntCoop (30/10/08)

Getting back to the OP question, 1 thing I have noticed between the Cooper's Draught Original and Premium cans of goo is that the premium has different yeast in the packet provided to the original.

I have just finished bottling a premium and the yeast supplied has 2 types of little yeasties in the packet.(shape and size)

The next brew i have bubbling right now uses the Original Draught and has only 1 type.

Cheers Coop :beer:


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## Gavo (30/10/08)

AntCoop said:


> Getting back to the OP question, 1 thing I have noticed between the Cooper's Draught Original and Premium cans of goo is that the premium has different yeast in the packet provided to the original.



That can also be said about the international series as I used the Australian PA and it had a different yeast with it. The yeast was labeled APA. The origianal series all seem to use the same yeast and it is only identified by a code.


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## Fermented (30/10/08)

'Morning!

Quantocks: The KMart at Chatty has a poor selection at best. Each time I've popped in there I find, bluntly, SFA. Maybe a few cans, a kit or two, a bench bottler, a few accessories on the wall and a sparse selection of dry goods. I didn't notice any HB stuff in the Coles at Westfield, or maybe I just keep my eyes shut and only grab a few items as their grocery and fruit and veg prices are extortionate.

Jase71: The method you've suggested of choosing a "standard base, tweak it, taste it, do it again with a new tweak" sounds like a rather good plan. I've started buying bulk lots (100g) of hops to do pretty much exactly what you've suggested. I figure that a can of malt plus a kit is a pretty stable and repeatable base to start from as it's very repeatable compared even to a kit and dry powders.

BribieG: I'm no longer into plain kit brewing. I am taking the next steps to make a better product. The only straight kit I've done was my first. Even the (cough) cerveza for the missus was modified with the kind assistance of my LHBS guy. Then into fresh wort (waiting on one to be ready to drink now) which felt far too easy and now fun with hops. The reason for the fast change was the the straight kit and can of malt was about as interesting as a plain boiled potato. Yep, it was a beer and was better than commercial megaswill but it was no match for a premium import. VB? Great for a cooling drink after doing physical labour with my brothers, but I want to aim higher for sipping at home on the balcony. 

Gavo: I figured the kit instructions for snake-oil before I did my first one. I found this forum and lurked and read before I opened my mouth.  I headed straight into canned malts, but also received some bags of BE2 equivalent with my starter kit. There's no way I will use dex for anything more than priming or to lift OGs on some recipes. I'm none too keen on malto either, but for some quick and dirty jobs I think I may have to suffer the dark side. I've got the S-04 in stock, so will use that for now. I had a look at the Fermentis site to learn the difference between S-04 and S-05. The 05 seems to be the choice for more modern styles with a lighter, cleaner finish and the 04 for a more traditional ale taste. 05 is on my shopping list for the next bulk buy.

*So*, back to the original question. From all the answers, I get that there's not a huge difference between the different Coopers series. Overall, they're pretty unremarkable but are useful as a base from which to build with various adjuncts. Other brands may give a better result for the straight K&K hobbyist.

Thanks for the advice and for exploring side options too. Very greatly appreciated!

Cheers - Fermented.

EDIT: Left one thing out (yeasts).


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## Adamt (30/10/08)

The Brewmaster and Premium series mostly carry different yeasts than the standard yeast... but they're still strapped to the can and face the same punishment as the standard kits. However you may find you get better yeast quality in the brewmaster/premium due to lower production levels/low shelf time/better handling. The malt is all made on the same equipment and some of the brewmaster/premium series is from the same wort at some of the standard kits.

Hope this makes sense as I'm sleep deprived and delirious.


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## Fermented (30/10/08)

Any good ideas on what to use the standard yeasts for? I've got a few in the fridge.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Sunshine_Brewer (30/10/08)

Fermented,

I have cracked some of the premium cans(coopers pilsner and E. lager) open and get a much stronger whiff of hops from it then any of the original series. The yeast is differnet too, don't think it is better though...I think mainly it's a marketing thing.

SB


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## buttersd70 (30/10/08)

Can I just make an observation about tweaking kits?....It's something I've not ranted about (  ), and don't plan on ranting here, but has left me....shall we say, curious, for some time, so I'll pose it more as a question...

If you are already going to go to the trouble of doing a hop boil, which adds flavour, aroma, and _bitterness_, is there any reason as to why blends, bought or home mixed, of non malt adjuncts are not ditched entirely for malt, given that the hop boil itself can easily counter any additional residual sweetness the added malt will give?


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## Fermented (30/10/08)

Sunshine_Brewer said:


> The yeast is differnet too, don't think it is better though...I think mainly it's a marketing thing.


The only difference I noted is that some come in what packets and others in shiny gold ones.  IIRC, they mention something about a better yeast with the Premium kits on their site.




buttersd70 said:


> If you are already going to go to the trouble of doing a hop boil, which adds flavour, aroma, and _bitterness_, is there any reason as to why blends, bought or home mixed, of non malt adjuncts are not ditched entirely for malt, given that the hop boil itself can easily counter any additional residual sweetness the added malt will give?


At this stage, I want to use only malts and preferably liquids at that. However, for this quickie, I have some BE2 equivalent lying around and well, waste not, want not, etc - maybe just make another cerveza for the wife with it. I recognise that some kit cans have adequate bittering from POR, tetra and only God knows what else. Hmmm - sounds like I need to read a lot more and stabilise what little I know. 

Cheers - Fermented.

Edit: Figured out what to do with the BE2 stuff.


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## QIK86 (30/10/08)

buttersd70 said:


> Can I just make an observation about tweaking kits?....It's something I've not ranted about (  ), and don't plan on ranting here, but has left me....shall we say, curious, for some time, so I'll pose it more as a question...
> 
> If you are already going to go to the trouble of doing a hop boil, which adds flavour, aroma, and _bitterness_, is there any reason as to why blends, bought or home mixed, of non malt adjuncts are not ditched entirely for malt, given that the hop boil itself can easily counter any additional residual sweetness the added malt will give?



Good point. Butters convinced me to go all malt and I must say, my beers have improved out of sight! The only dex I use now is for bulk priming.


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## Jase71 (30/10/08)

buttersd70 said:


> If you are already going to go to the trouble of doing a hop boil, which adds flavour, aroma, and _bitterness_, is there any reason as to why blends, bought or home mixed, of non malt adjuncts are not ditched entirely for malt, given that the hop boil itself can easily counter any additional residual sweetness the added malt will give?



Price maybe ? Although I don't need to tighten my belt buckle out of any real necessity, there's something very appealing about producing beer for 25 cents a stubbie


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## buttersd70 (30/10/08)

Qik, mate..haven't seen you around for a while. Good to hear things are going good.  

Jase, yeah price may be a consideration....but what I had in mind was not those who are considering tweaks, or just starting to experiment with blending, but those who are already doing quite considerable tweaks, but _still _cling to dex and maltodex. I can certainly understand using up what you have left in stock, like fermented. Thats a different thing altogether.

But you see a lot that have already pushed the malt up way beyond 1/2 a kilo _and _are doing hop boils for bitterness and flavour _and _are dry hopping _and _are using specialty grains _and _are using better yeasts (sometimes liquids) and _still _use maltodextrin and dextrose, for no apparant purpose. I would think that with the amount of time and additional money already going in, cost would appear to be a lower priority. And when you get to this point, going all malt is such a simple step that it can't even really be considered a full step, imho.

Oh, and I'm not referring to the use of dex to deliberately lower the body if the beer style calls for it. Thats different.


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## Bribie G (30/10/08)

I for one would gladly do all malt extract brews for a quick catch-up brew when I haven't time for a partial mash but as posters above have mentioned, cost comes into it.

Way back when, an all extract brew was half the price of a kit and nearly every LHBS had the honey dispenser on the counter, you took your own tupperware and bought some POR hops or pellets, your Edme yeast and bobs yer uncle. All extract beer for ten or twelve cents a tallie as opposed to 20 cents a tallie for Brigalow.

On returning to HB after a 15 year break I'm horrified at the cost of malt extract and find that rather than pay $13 for a kilo and a half can of Malt extract, which seems to be all that is available, I get good results from a cheaper can, say Coopers on special, and add a kilo and a half of LDME or a kilo of LDME and half of dex, some finishing hops, and go from there.

Taking into account hops and yeast an all extract brew can run up to over $30 whereas I can run up a drinkable kit and bits for around the $20 mark. Wont' win any prizes but nice lawnmower beer.

Now I hear rumblings of "don't be so cheap, at $30 you are still getting the equivalent of $80 of megaswill and probably a more enjoyable beer"

Well in this sense I am being 'cheap' because being an old time brewer I can remember when the cost differential between hb and commercial was more in the ratio of 5 to 1 so the 'cheap' argument doesn't impress me <_< . 

Not against all malt in principle, however after Christmas I'm definitely going to try BIAB :icon_cheers: and skip the all extract phase completely. Until then I'll be sticking to my kits/bits/partials.


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## Gavo (30/10/08)

I would have to agree with Butters on the use of malt and doing all extract brews. Thanks for the encouragement Butters.  IMHO if a brewer is already steeping grains and boiling hops for say 15 min and using a kit tin, it is only another 45 min added to the boil and you won't need to use a kit. If you can get a kit very cheap and then improve it then cost will come into it, or if you are just getting used to brewing and making a few additions along the way that is fine to. 
On the lines of cost, LDME is around $7.00 - $8.00 a kilogram from the above sponsors, and if you re-use yeast a typical 21 litre brew will cost between $21 and $25. Not much more than a kit + Yeast + 500 grams LDME + 500 grams of dex and some hops. 

In my limited experience, all extract all malt brews are far better than kits and once you go there you are unlikely to go back. Watch out though as I think that there is only one direction from extract and that is to Partials and then AG. I think that I am up to the partial stage.

2c

Cheers
Gavo :icon_cheers: 

Oh and by the way if it wasn't for this site I would still be doing K&K with dextrose and kit yeast.


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## buttersd70 (30/10/08)

I wasn't even really meaning stepping to full extract as in unhopped extract and doing _all _the hopping...although its not _that _far of a jump at this point, but going with all unhopped and hopping it yourself obviously _does _cause a jump in the price, cos you're using a lot more hops.

I was actually talking about using a hopped kit as the main base, and just switching over the adjunct. What I was thinking of is a lot of recipes where the tweaker has _already _got 50%, 70%, and sometimes more malt in the adjucnct _anyway_. If you're already at 70% malt in your adjunct mix, why not go the extra 30%? It would only take a couple of grams extra hops, or even just a lower BG, to counteract such a small increase. Price considerations on the big steps, I can understand. Certainly. It's the relatively small difference on something that is already super-highly-tweaked that I don't get.

Just wanted to clarify that. (Bribie - similar to when you use a morgans goo for the bitterness, so you can get away with still only having to do a 15min addition.  )


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## Gavo (30/10/08)

buttersd70 said:


> It's the relatively small difference on something that is already super-highly-tweaked that I don't get.



This is what I was referring to, I didn't mean to get confusing.


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## LightLager (18/11/08)

QIK86 said:


> Good point. Butters convinced me to go all malt and I must say, my beers have improved out of sight! The only dex I use now is for bulk priming.



Noob, so watch out!

When you say "all malt" do you replace all dextrose with light dry malt? ie: 1kg bag of dextrose is replaced with 1kg bag of malt?


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## QIK86 (18/11/08)

Yes, but not simply a straight swap. As well as replacing the dextrose for malt, you usually need to boil the malt with some hops to add bitterness to offset the additional sweetness the malt will add to the beer.


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## buttersd70 (18/11/08)

LightLager said:


> Noob, so watch out!
> 
> When you say "all malt" do you replace all dextrose with light dry malt? ie: 1kg bag of dextrose is replaced with 1kg bag of malt?



haaaaahaa, another scalp for the taking.  

Yes, thats what was meant....dextrose gives alcohol, but no body or flavour. It ferments entirely. Malt is better, because it gives alcohol, body _and _flavour, but because it doesn't ferment entirley, it leaves residual sweetness, and in the case of kit beers, this sweetness needs to be balanced with more hops, because the kit manufacturers design the kits to be used with blends of different sugars, to cater to the 'lazy brewer'. (not meaning offense to anyone here, hense the quotes. But thats what they do, afterall.) Its a _trade-off_, between having an easy process, and flavour. You take from one to give to the other.

Edit : Taught you well, did I, young Qik....beat me to the post. :lol:


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## Jase71 (18/11/08)

buttersd70 said:


> haaaaahaa, another scalp for the taking.



LightLager - He's right you know. You've had the first taste of this knowledge base, and now you'll never be able to turn back. I'm only now planning my fourth brew, but I feel that my soul as already been stolen. By post five you'll have passed the point of no return, and by post ten you'll already be snubbing anyone who tells you cane sugar is the way to go.


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## LightLager (18/11/08)

Cheers Gents.....

I will have to find another thread about using hops. 


I just remembered that my Toohey's Lager was 14 days in the bottle. I will put two bottles in the fridge.


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## flattop (18/11/08)

A quick question for the more experienced...

My first Cerveza has a homebrew taste...
Other kits i have brewed haven't got that for various reasons, i have upped the LME/ DEX ratio to help with that.
My second Cerveza is shaping up the same, i am dry hopping it in the hope of getting rid of that flavor, does anyone have other ways to get rid of it?

BTW Jase the Cerveza turned out to be quite drinkable after a few weeks in the bottle, even with the aftertaste.


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## buttersd70 (18/11/08)

flattop said:


> A quick question for the more experienced...
> 
> My first Cerveza has a homebrew taste...
> Other kits i have brewed haven't got that for various reasons, i have upped the LME/ DEX ratio to help with that.
> ...


at a guess, partially down to yeast, partially down to clarity, partially the dex/lme ratio, and partialy that, if you'll excuse me, cerveza tastes like shit even when its brewed professionally. ( ^_^ sorry for going there, but its nasty stuff IMHO.)


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## staggalee (18/11/08)

Jase71 said:


> LightLager - He's right you know. You've had the first taste of this knowledge base, and now you'll never be able to turn back. I'm only now planning my fourth brew, but I feel that my soul as already been stolen. By post five you'll have passed the point of no return, and by post ten you'll already be snubbing anyone who tells you cane sugar is the way to go.



by post 20 you`ll be a stumbling incoherent wreck, by post 40 you`ll be sleeping under a bridge with a dead rat for a pillow, by post 60 you`ll be on the liver transfer list.........
but shit, it`s a great hobby.
someone ought to wise up those poor bastards with their stamp collections. :lol: 

stagga.


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## flattop (18/11/08)

[email protected], i don't entirely agree but the the Cerveza is for the ministry of war and finance...keep her happy and i can keep financing better brew equipment.
BTW the wheat and lager wheat cross are better brews but she doesn't appreciate them....

So the key is to output a better Cerveza oe brew in 5 in order to brew wtf i want the rest of the time...


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## Fermented (18/11/08)

flattop said:


> My first Cerveza has a homebrew taste...


Not your fault. It just tastes like shite imho, until it has had about four weeks to settle it's 'orrible self down. I only make it for the missus and now that she has tasted something better in the other brews, the cerveza is heading for the blacklist. 

It's OK with a spicy hotpot or something like that, but a session beer it is not.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## buttersd70 (18/11/08)

All cheekiness aside, and trying to put on my "objective hat", swap out the yeast for US05, crash cill when done, and geletine fine. One thing about the cerveza is that (kindly put) they are very low on flavour (more harshly, its like gnats water), so any yeast left in suspension will overide the flavour. With this style, neutral yeast, and _clarity _is the key. If its not clear, it will taste like 'homebrew' (in the negative sense).


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## flattop (18/11/08)

ok gotcha, the brew is crystal clear, but perhaps the coopers ale yeast is to blame, i will pitch US05 next time....


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## rendo (23/11/08)

Great post Fermented.
I am getting back into the world of brewing after a 10 year break. Now older, wiser, balder, I have moved to Lane Cove, next door to you @ Chatswood.

Do you recommend any good local places to get brew kits, yeasts, hops etc? I am new to the North.

Also, what is S-04? S-05? Types of yeasts? Saflager? Does it really make THAT much difference in the end result in comparison to the yeast that comes with the kit?? Really...? So where do I get them? 

Rendo



Fermented said:


> 'Morning!
> 
> Quantocks: The KMart at Chatty has a poor selection at best. Each time I've popped in there I find, bluntly, SFA. Maybe a few cans, a kit or two, a bench bottler, a few accessories on the wall and a sparse selection of dry goods. I didn't notice any HB stuff in the Coles at Westfield, or maybe I just keep my eyes shut and only grab a few items as their grocery and fruit and veg prices are extortionate.
> 
> ...


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## Gavo (24/11/08)

rendo said:


> Also, what is S-04? S-05? Types of yeasts? Saflager? Really...? So where do I get them?



Yes they are yeast types, S-04 is an English ale yeast US-05 is an American ale yeast.



rendo said:


> Does it really make THAT much difference in the end result in comparison to the yeast that comes with the kit??



Yes it does. This is one of the simplest ways to improve a brew and result in something much more drinkable.

Most home brew shops will stock these. You can also get them from the site sponsors.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Fermented (24/11/08)

rendo said:


> Do you recommend any good local places to get brew kits, yeasts, hops etc? I am new to the North.


Congrats. It's a nice enough part of Sydney. I used to live down in Helen St, Lane Cove about ten years ago. Apartment jungle but the Asian owned Kwikki Mart was a good thing, despite extortionate prices. 

On the north side we are lucky to have two shops. There's Daves at North Sydney on Miller St and there is Asquith Homebrewing at Asquith on the Pacific Hwy.

Both are quite decent shops with knowledgeable proprietors and they're both nice enough blokes too.

No affiliation, etc, etc, {insert disclaimer here}, ymmv, etc.

Also, check out the forum sponsors. The prices from those guys is often better and besides, they help keep the board alive.

S-04 and S-05 are pretty much a staple ale yeast. Have a look at the Fermentis site (http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/30-10_product_hb.asp) for info on their range of yeasts. There are a few other companies whose yeasts are readily available too.

Oh - and I take back what I said about K-Mart Chatswood. For the most part, it's pretty well stocked with the standard Coopers range now. That said, I would rather give my money to a privately owned small business anyway unless I'm desperate for standard ingredients.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## RobboMC (24/11/08)

I must jump in and defend Coopers ( a bit ) here.

All of the International series and Thomas Coopers series make it clear on the label to use Brew Enhancers and/or dry malt.

The Sparkling Ale instructions even introduce the idea of cans of liquid malt. 

Yes the original cans say sugar, but as a recent newbie a few years ago I still remember my progression up the scale
from the cheap and nasty through the International series to the Thomas Coopers good stuff.

The quality of the cans may not change, but the instructions definately do.

As for dumping the non-malt fermentables, there is a point similar to the early 'why add cane sugar' when one asks
'why add any sugar, just add malt and more hops in the boil'. 

When you get to this point, well, you actually start making pretty good beer.


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## tdack (24/11/08)

rendo said:


> Great post Fermented.
> I am getting back into the world of brewing after a 10 year break. Now older, wiser, balder, I have moved to Lane Cove, next door to you @ Chatswood.
> 
> Do you recommend any good local places to get brew kits, yeasts, hops etc? I am new to the North.
> ...



Rendo,

Dave's Homebrew on Miller St in North Sydney, under the North Sydney Oval grand stand - great guys who are more than willing to help and have a chat.

S-04 & S-05 are different types of yeast, and yes they make a difference. I wouldn't have thought it until I brewed my first wheat beer with WB-06, the taste and aroma was completely different.


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## Peaka (29/11/08)

I hope this question falls under the topic here but here goes:

What is everyones favourite kits as in brand names....I'm talking Morgans, Muntons, Coopers, Home Brand, Tooheys etc.....and is there much of a difference between them all?
Or is it more of an individual taste kind of thing?
Its just that my local source for Home Brew kits doesn't really have that much of a selection and I want to know if I can just get away with the Supermarket brands.


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## lastdrinks (29/11/08)

Coopers Lager is my standard kit i pick up from Coles. Nice price, some IBU's and not too much colour. Perfect for adding flavour, aroma and bitterness hops. Also extra malt, steeping grains and different yeasts. And you can almost make any style with it as a starting point. 

I'm up to about 18 or so brews and this method of keeping the kit the same has really let me learn alot about the extra bits i add in. Which will help when i finally set up my AG kit.

And to stoke the fire i think dex gets a bad rap. It is always used in my session beer recipes so they arent so cloying.


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## flattop (29/11/08)

Peaka, this sounds like a good topic for a new thread, consider making one.
For my part ESB wheat is currently my favorite kit, although i have a liquid wort kit i am just about to start which for the price i hope will top it.


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