# Pid Newbie Stuff



## bignath (19/11/12)

Hi all... Have done a quick search but I don't understand all the PID stuff.

Currently I am using an STC1000 to power a power board that runs a 2200w kettle element and little brown pump. Stc powers up board and element and pump are then on simultaneously.

I would like to limit the over and under shooting of the st by using a PID instead.
Where do I start with this plan? Is it just a matter of swapping out controllers? I am comfortable with wiring stc's (done 3 myself). What do I need, how does it all go together, and how does it all work??

Lay mans terms where possible please. I am really uneducated in this sort of stuff...

Cheers,
BN.


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## mxd (19/11/12)

swap the stc with a pid, change the temp probe from STC to a good one that the pid handles.

Set the pid up for the probe, 

then tune the pid (the pid should have an autotune function)

To tune the pid it's "best" ?(i.e my opinion) to do tune whilst doing a "standard" (by that I mean my standard brew e.g. 5 kg of grain, 20 ltrs of water 55 Degrees) mash.

The autotune will set the pid values that will allow the pid to know your system under the above scenario to hit and keep the temps required.


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## dicko (19/11/12)

Big Nath

Have a look at this off Brew Adelaide.
I have not gone any further with mine at the moment due to not wanting to pull my current control box apart while I am trying to brew before Xmas but there is plenty of basic info on Pids

http://brewadelaide.com/forum/index.php?topic=855.0

Cheers


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## squirt in the turns (19/11/12)

Assuming this is for your recirculating BIAB rig? Why wouldn't you want to recirculate constantly, and only switch the element on and off as required (pump stays on)? I don't know much about these single vessel builds that are becoming so fashionable, but that's how it's done with RIMS/HERMS.

As mxd says, it's a reasonably straight swap, except that unlike the STC-1000, the PID does not have a 240 volt, 10 amp relay built in. It has a 12 V output designed to switch a solid-state relay (SSR), which you'll need to get too. Get a PID like this Sestos one from eBay or this one from Auber. The eBay option is a kit that includes the SSR and a K type probe, but I'd definitely recommend getting a better probe. RTD type ones are best. Auber also sell these fully sick watertight stainless ones with a built in threaded fitting (no need for a thermowell). They come with a detachable cable which is super convenient and there's a "deluxe" option which gets you a stainless steel braided cable for extra durability.

I've got 2 of the Sestos PIDs and I upgraded my probes to ones from Auber. All works perfectly. The instruction manual is a bit incomprehensible and the settings a bit fiddly, but you'll only need to dick around with it extensively a couple of times while you're tuning it and setting the probe type. I think the dedicated HERMS and RIMS threads have some good info, and plenty of folk on here such as wolfy and myself have the Sestos controllers (the Aubers are popular too), so if you get stuck you'll be able to get specific help.

DO NOT forget to put a heat sink on the SSR, otherwise it will burn out.


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## raven19 (19/11/12)

I have a bit more background on PID's in my brweery build in my sig below too, aliong with others on AHB that have used PID's in recent times.


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## bignath (19/11/12)

Squirt...

Yep it's for the single vessel. The only reason I don't run pump constantly is due to losing too much heat. Therefore I have to run the element more often than I want to. So my workaround has been to only run pump and element together when required.

Cheers for links, I'll check it all out.

Hypothetically, if you can wire a stc, will I be able to put this together myself?


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## booargy (19/11/12)

They are not that much more complicated. The PID has a low voltage output to power the SSR. So the power to the element from the STC gets moved to the SSR. The SSR is then powered by the low voltage output from the PID. I reckon you'll be able to do it and there are plenty of people here to help IF you get stuck.


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## bignath (19/11/12)

Been researching PID all day so it seems....

OK, do i have this right?

Power is supplied to the PID which you set at whatever temp you want.
An SSR is connected to the PID and when the probe registers deviation from the set point within the parameters set by the user, the PID sends a signal (voltage??) to the SSR, the SSR then converts it to 240V, give or take, to be used to connect an element.

The SSR connects to the PID, and the element connects to the SSR?

Assuming i have that right, how much better are the rtd pt100 probes, compared to the "k" type?

I have to admit, the whole all in one bundle (minus heatsink) looks pretty appealing at less than $50 shipped.

As an example:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-PID-Tem...=item33707c59d8

Oh, and one other question...

If the power is going to the ssr from the pid, the ssr only has two terminals in, and two terminals out, so does that mean it doesn't need an earth? Or am i incorrect in assuming that one terminal in and out is active and the other in and out is neutral...


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## browndog (19/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> Been researching PID all day so it seems....
> 
> OK, do i have this right?
> 
> ...




The SSR doen't really do any converting as such, it is simply a switch for the 240V that the PID pulses on and off.


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## labels (19/11/12)

Regarding PID (slghtly OT) I replaced one on our hot foiling unit on our label press at work with exactly the same type as you are talking about with a K type probe.

It ramps quickly to within 10C of the target temperature before it slows down and creeps slowly, then holds exactly spot on for eight hours at a time very occasionally drifting down 1 degree for only a second or so.

We manually tuned this device for our needs but please DON'T ask me how, it was bloody complicated.

Steve


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## bignath (19/11/12)

browndog said:


> The SSR doen't really do any converting as such, it is simply a switch for the 240V that the PID pulses on and off.



Ahhh, ok BD.

everything else i assumed is ok though?


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## Adam Howard (19/11/12)

An SSR is a powered switch basically, it is wired inline with 240V and the element. The PID is able to flick the switch on and off REALLY fast to maintain a temp.


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## bignath (19/11/12)

right.

so would the "crude" signal flow basically go:

240V in -> PID -> lower voltage -> SSR (solid state relay/PID controlled switch for want of a better term) -> 240V -> ELEMENT??


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## browndog (19/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> Ahhh, ok BD.
> 
> everything else i assumed is ok though?



Can't really comment on the probe types, but the one advertised with the unit on the link will do the job. As far as wiring goes, you need to supply the PID unit with 240V to power it, it outputs low voltage to the SSR to cause it to open and close. You run the active to the element through the PID and neutral and earth direct to your element. The SSR switches the active to the element on and off according to the PIDs output.

The diagram on the SSR pretty well explains what it does.


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## bignath (19/11/12)

browndog said:


> Can't really comment on the probe types, but the one advertised with the unit on the link will do the job. As far as wiring goes, you need to supply the PID unit with 240V to power it, it outputs low voltage to the SSR to cause it to open and close. You run the active to the element through the PID and neutral and earth direct to your element. The SSR switches the active to the element on and off according to the PIDs output.
> 
> The diagram on the SSR pretty well explains what it does.



So are you saying that the only wire going into and out of the ssr is the active?

I know it probably comes across that i'm an electrical liability, but if i can sort out in my head how to use the ssr, then i am confident i'll have a lightbulb moment, and all will be sweet. 

As previously posted, i've successfully easily assembled several temp controllers for my keezer, ferm fridge, and current controller on my single vessel rig....i've installed several sets of spotlights on my trucks, car stereos etc..I know 240v shouldn't be fucked with, but if i can get it through my head in a diagram of sorts of how to get from PID, to relay, to elemet, i'll be fine....


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## browndog (19/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> So are you saying that the only wire going into and out of the ssr is the active?
> 
> I know it probably comes across that i'm an electrical liability, but if i can sort out in my head how to use the ssr, then i am confident i'll have a lightbulb moment, and all will be sweet.
> 
> As previously posted, i've successfully easily assembled several temp controllers for my keezer, ferm fridge, and current controller on my single vessel rig....i've installed several sets of spotlights on my trucks, car stereos etc..I know 240v shouldn't be fucked with, but if i can get it through my head in a diagram of sorts of how to get from PID, to relay, to elemet, i'll be fine....




yep, thats right, if you can just imagine the SSR is a switch that cuts the active to the element you will have it. With the temp controllers you have wired up, they have a relay inside them that switches the active on and off. With a PID/SSR it basically does the same thing but the SSR can handle more current and switch a lot faster than the relay inside your temp controller. So you are looking at active and neutral into your PID, + and - out of the PID to the SSR. Then another active to the SSR and from the other side of the SSR to the element and a neutral and earth going to your element. Clear as mud?


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## bignath (19/11/12)

browndog said:


> yep, thats right, if you can just imagine the SSR is a switch that cuts the active to the element you will have it. With the temp controllers you have wired up, they have a relay inside them that switches the active on and off. With a PID/SSR it basically does the same thing but the SSR can handle more current and switch a lot faster than the relay inside your temp controller. So you are looking at active and neutral into your PID, + and - out of the PID to the SSR. Then another active to the SSR and from the other side of the SSR to the element and a neutral and earth going to your element. Clear as mud?



hmmm right.

gotta go cook tea for me and mrs nath....give me a little while and i'll no doubt be back after i let all that sink in....


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## twizt1d (19/11/12)

having set up a PID controlled RIMS system not that long ago myself i can give a bit of advice in saying dont make assumptions when it comes to wiring this stuff up, if you arent 100% confident of what you are doing then get a sparky or someone that knows what they are doing to wire it for you.


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## bignath (19/11/12)

tonesbrew said:


> having set up a PID controlled RIMS system not that long ago myself i can give a bit of advice in saying dont make assumptions when it comes to wiring this stuff up, if you arent 100% confident of what you are doing then get a sparky or someone that knows what they are doing to wire it for you.



cheers mate, i know i'll be 100% confident if i can just make the loose ends in my head join up.

Am starting to think that the stc was one thing, but the pid seems different altogether, just need to make the "different connection" in my brain.

Not planning on screwing around if i don't fully understand what i'm getting into. 
For me, it FEELS like a simple job to wire one up, i just need it to make sense to me. If it doesn't make complete sense, rest assured, i won't try it.


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## booargy (19/11/12)

The STC-1000 switches the element with a relay. This relay is internal. 
*a mechanical relay is a set of contacts connected to to an electromagnet. when the magnet is energized it pulls the contacts together allowing electricity to flow)
On a PID this relay is external so the unit puts out a low voltage to power the solid state relay 
*A Solid State Relay doesn't have contacts or a magnet but it still uses voltage to energize it which allows electricity to flow.


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## labels (19/11/12)

Simple explanation

It's a low voltage switch that switches a high voltage switch

(in this case, please don't get into currents)


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## Mattyau (19/11/12)

Would the wiring look like this.


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## squirt in the turns (19/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> Assuming i have that right, how much better are the rtd pt100 probes, compared to the "k" type?



K type thermocouples are supposedly accurate to 1 degree, at best. I compared the ones I got with the Sestos PID kit to the RTD probes I got from Auber, and the RTDs were a lot more responsive and accurate.

Mattyau's diagram is correct (although the colour conventions for DC and 240 VAC are arse-about). As others have explained, the SSR is a switch that's triggered by the PID. The principle is basically the same as the STC-1000 but the 240 V switching component is external instead of built in.

It's not rocket science, but at the same time a stuff-up could kill you. Get a multi-meter to check all of your wiring before you connect it to the mains, and make sure everything that needs to be earthed is, and has continuity to the earth pin on the plug that powers the whole thing. If you aren't already using one, get an RCD type circuit breaker. Most fuse boxes will already have them, but I use one on the GPOs I use for brewing too.


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## bignath (20/11/12)

OK, so how's this look??




Drawn up in "paint", and i'm not sure what colours to indicate for the control power feed to the ssr, but I THINK everything looks good otherwise.

Comments please??

Also, if this diagram is correct, (based on Mattyau's pic - cheers mate), and i wanted to put a switch in it to manually overide the element so i can turn it on or off independant of the pid/ssr....where and how would that all hook up?

Cheers in advance,

BN


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## goid (20/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> OK, so how's this look??
> 
> View attachment 58625
> 
> ...



The diagram looks correct. If you want to put your switch in, place it after SSR between it and the outlet to element. I would put the switch on the active (+) and neutral (-).

Goid


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## bignath (20/11/12)

Goid said:


> The diagram looks correct. If you want to put your switch in, place it after SSR between it and the outlet to element. I would put the switch on the active (+) and neutral (-).
> 
> Goid



thanks mate, this stuff seems to be starting make some sense to me.

re switch...

literally would the switch have one pole connected to positive and the other pole to negative?

i was VAGUELY thinking about it being inline on the positive side only?


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## booargy (20/11/12)

In my opinion it is best to use a double throw relay. the SSR side gets wired to the normally closed and power to the normally open. the element is wired to the common. When the relay is energized it disconnects the SSR and provides power straight to the element. 
This way you are not switching a high current directly. You may notice when an element is plugged directly into power point it sparks when turned off that is not what you want.
Will see if I can find a photo to explain it better.


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## bignath (20/11/12)

booargy said:


> In my opinion it is best to use a double throw relay. the SSR side gets wired to the normally closed and power to the normally open. the element is wired to the common. When the relay is energized it disconnects the SSR and provides power straight to the element.
> This way you are not switching a high current directly. You may notice when an element is plugged directly into power point it sparks when turned off that is not what you want.
> Will see if I can find a photo to explain it better.



Is there any reason why it's not possible to put a switch in the control power feeds between the pid and ssr? 
That way you'd be switching a low current wouldn't you?


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## goid (20/11/12)

_literally would the switch have one pole connected to positive and the other pole to negative?_ No

You are right in your thinking that it is inline with the active. So it will switch the active line. But I would get a switch that will switch both. A switch that allows 2 inputs and 2 outputs.


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## bignath (20/11/12)

Goid said:


> _literally would the switch have one pole connected to positive and the other pole to negative?_ No
> 
> You are right in your thinking that it is inline with the active. So it will switch the active line. But I would get a switch that will switch both. A switch that allows 2 inputs and 2 outputs.



Is that a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch you're talking about?


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## Mattyau (20/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> _lIs that a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch you're talking about?_



Id say it would be easyer to use a dpst (double pole single throw switch)


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## Adam Howard (20/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> Is there any reason why it's not possible to put a switch in the control power feeds between the pid and ssr?
> That way you'd be switching a low current wouldn't you?



The wiring diagram you've drawn up Nath is exactly how I wired mine. 






Might be hard to tell in that pic but you should be able to follow the wiring...

Works perfectly. Fricken love it. Got a few more things to tidy up in my control box though for my HLT control and pump switching.


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## MastersBrewery (20/11/12)

RE: SWITCH if it were me i would switch the low voltage between the PID and SSR


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## m3taL (20/11/12)

So im building a Fridge thermostat controller at work for my brew fridge, Could anyone tell me if this Live BUSBAR will carry enough amps to power my fridge 






Ok Ok a bit of a joke!!!! For those who want to know its a Main Switchboard for a large multistory building.... 1600A Incoming btw this is what i build on the daily.....


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## goid (20/11/12)

MastersBrewery said:


> RE: SWITCH if it were me i would switch the low voltage between the PID and SSR



The only issue with switching the low voltage is in the bad case of the SSR malfunctioning and becoming constantly on. Someone may be under the wrong impression that you have isolated the element from AC with the switch.

I know most people would isolate the AC to the whole unit but what if you weren't thinking and had a brain fart moment and thought the above. You could be in some hurt when playing around with the element.


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## MastersBrewery (20/11/12)

Goid said:


> The only issue with switching the low voltage is in the bad case of the SSR malfunctioning and becoming constantly on. Someone may be under the wrong impression that you have isolated the element from AC with the switch.
> 
> I know most people would isolate the AC to the whole unit but what if you weren't thinking and had a brain fart moment and thought the above. You could be in some hurt when playing around with the element.



thats what the E Stop switch is for, really supose it comes down to how you set up the control box.


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## bignath (20/11/12)

MastersBrewery said:


> thats what the E Stop switch is for, really supose it comes down to how you set up the control box.



Have seen some boxes with emergency stops on them...

where would they go then, pre pid on the mains in, inbetween pid and ssr..


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## labels (20/11/12)

booargy said:


> In my opinion it is best to use a double throw relay. the SSR side gets wired to the normally closed and power to the normally open. the element is wired to the common. When the relay is energized it disconnects the SSR and provides power straight to the element.
> This way you are not switching a high current directly. You may notice when an element is plugged directly into power point it sparks when turned off that is not what you want.
> Will see if I can find a photo to explain it better.



That just makes so much sense and I wouldn't have thought of it had you not posted it here

Steve


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## Lakey (20/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> Have seen some boxes with emergency stops on them...
> 
> where would they go then, pre pid on the mains in, inbetween pid and ssr..


Yeah I would put it pre pid to cut power to the whole box for an e-stop


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## QldKev (20/11/12)

Hacked ya diagram  






The SSR can be earthed for extra protection, especially since the heat sink often sticks out of the enclosure. You will notice on the SSR it has a screw hole in the middle between the terminals that has a metal base.

If you are going to switch the output to isolate the heating element, why not just switch the 12v line.

Disclaimer crap: I'm not an electrician, please get your electrician to verify this.


QldKev


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## bignath (20/11/12)

cheers Kev,

another thing i don't understand though is earthing components. 

Do i need to earth the box to anything?

If i just have that wiring all hooked up like that diagram (assuming it's electrically sound) inside a plastic enclosure with a heat sink on the outside, is everything gonna be ok?

cheers for everyones input on this thread so far, it's really helping me get my head around a whole heap of stuff.

BN


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## woodwormm (20/11/12)

QldKev said:


> Hacked ya diagram
> 
> 
> View attachment 58629
> ...



as far as i can tell a pid and an ssr are just like a car headlight switch and relay (albeit a very intelligent switch) 

i'm struggling to see how any of these manually switching options allow Big Nath to manually override the element on and off? as far as i can tell all it allows is the element to be overridden when the pid has turned it on? what about when the pid thinks it should be off? am i completely out of the loop (bearing in mind i dont know pid's very well)


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## bignath (20/11/12)

printed forms section said:


> as far as i can tell a pid and an ssr are just like a car headlight switch and relay (albeit a very intelligent switch)
> 
> i'm struggling to see how any of these manually switching options allow Big Nath to manually override the element on and off? as far as i can tell all it allows is the element to be overridden when the pid has turned it on? what about when the pid thinks it should be off? am i completely out of the loop (bearing in mind i dont know pid's very well)



sorry mate, i think i may have led you up the path a bit. Probably shouldn't have said "independently".
I don't need the element to be able to be switched on when the pid has turned it off, just more the ability to turn it off when the pid has it turned on. Safety for boil dry and all that...


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## labels (20/11/12)

Booargy has definitely come up with the best so far. Essentially very safe by switching both active and neutral. 

Lets face it, anybody could have wired up something preceding your controller and you could be switching on neutral instead of active *thinking* you're switching on active. Especially if taking your you-beaut controller around a fellows brewers premise for a try-out. (the pid controller may not work in reverse polarity - I don't know)

Secondly, by switching out the SSR when the element is on by going direct to through the double pole relay is sensible IF you don't really trust Chinese cheap solid state relays (which should be earthed as previously mentioned)

Steve


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## booargy (20/11/12)

Any exposed metal including the heatsink, pot, plumbing, etc has to be earthed. Make sure your earth connections are tight and strong. The earth loop does nothing but save your life. 

The SSR can be manually switched off from the PID face by stopping the process. A relay bypasses or overrides the SSR allowing the element to get full power. to do the same with the SSR it needs a low voltage supplied to it from another source.

I am re-wireing my mash tun panel at the moment. the pump and RIMS element will be run through N/C alarm relay contacts. the relay is powered through the alarm relay on the PID. when the PID alarms the relay will energize cutting power to the pump and element and turning on a buzzer. A latching contact with keep the relay energized until reset.


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## bignath (20/11/12)

booargy said:


> Any exposed metal including the heatsink, pot, plumbing, etc has to be earthed. Make sure your earth connections are tight and strong. The earth loop does nothing but save your life.
> 
> The SSR can be manually switched off from the PID face by stopping the process. A relay bypasses or overrides the SSR allowing the element to get full power. to do the same with the SSR it needs a low voltage supplied to it from another source.
> 
> I am re-wireing my mash tun panel at the moment. the pump and RIMS element will be run through N/C alarm relay contacts. the relay is powered through the alarm relay on the PID. when the PID alarms the relay will energize cutting power to the pump and element and turning on a buzzer. A latching contact with keep the relay energized until reset.



I appreciate your help booargy, but i'm completely lost with your post mate. As i said in the OP, i need this stuff in layman's terms if possible as i don't understand the terminology.

with regard to the earthing...i don't understand where it all stops. In my head, i'm being told to earth the ssr to the heatsink, but they are made of metal aren't they? So what earth's the heatsink?
If i use a plastic (ABS) enclosure from Jaycar or similar, and hook it all up as per Kev's or my (mattyau's) original diagram, with no further connections added, is it electrically safe? I'm thinking of not worry about the switch, as i am using those cheap kettle elements for my mash, and i have retained the on/off switch assembly on the chassis of the element so i can turn it off right at the element if needed. That's what i do now atleast anyway..If i don't bother with the switch, can i just use one of those diagrams posted earlier?

As i said, i really appreciate your help, i just don't understand the terminology and reasoning why things have to go a certain way, but i am comfortable with following an approved wiring diagram.


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## labels (20/11/12)

booargy said:


> Any exposed metal including the heatsink, pot, plumbing, etc has to be earthed. Make sure your earth connections are tight and strong. The earth loop does nothing but save your life.
> 
> The SSR can be manually switched off from the PID face by stopping the process. A relay bypasses or overrides the SSR allowing the element to get full power. to do the same with the SSR it needs a low voltage supplied to it from another source.
> 
> I am re-wireing my mash tun panel at the moment. the pump and RIMS element will be run through N/C alarm relay contacts. the relay is powered through the alarm relay on the PID. when the PID alarms the relay will energize cutting power to the pump and element and turning on a buzzer. A latching contact with keep the relay energized until reset.



Makes a lot a sense to me, love it.


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## m3taL (20/11/12)

Would the Intergration of a RCD plug on the Lead that go's to your powerpoint be a good idea?? Bout $30ish and would give you that bit more Piece of mind, I'd also be inclined to install some kind of load breaker on the line too incase the element was to fail and short.....

Im Not a Sparky but i build switchboards Im an Electrical fitter so i know all too well what kind of protection protocols are put in place to save lives...... power usually doesn't ask.... just kills....


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## booargy (20/11/12)

Electricity likes to go to the ground and it will take the easiest path. So what the earth loop/circuit does is provide an easier or lower resistance path than a human. 
So all the exposed metal parts should be connected to the Green cable on the supply lead. A plastic box has no need to be earthed but it is important that the heat sink is.

mattyau's diagram is spot on and will work. once you work out how to use the PID mods can be done later.


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## bignath (20/11/12)

booargy said:


> Electricity likes to go to the ground and it will take the easiest path. So what the earth loop/circuit does is provide an easier or lower resistance path than a human.
> So all the exposed metal parts should be connected to the Green cable on the supply lead. A plastic box has no need to be earthed but it is important that the heat sink is.
> 
> mattyau's diagram is spot on and will work. once you work out how to use the PID mods can be done later.



Ok, thanks mate, so does that mean i should go off Kev's modification of my diagram as it shows the earth connection to the heatsink via the ssr?

Also, just with ssr and heatsink connection....Does the heatsink screw to the control box's chassis, and the two screw holes between the pairs of connectors on the ssr, screw into the back of the heatsink?


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## beerdrinkingbob (21/11/12)

If somebody wouldn't mind, what does a heat sink look like and how is it attached to the SSR, can't relly get a mental pic going..

Cheers 

BDB


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## mxd (21/11/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> If somebody wouldn't mind, what does a heat sink look like and how is it attached to the SSR, can't relly get a mental pic going..
> 
> Cheers
> 
> BDB



http://www.sourcingmap.com/ssr25da-25a-sin...k-p-177678.html


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## Cocko (21/11/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> If somebody wouldn't mind, what does a heat sink look like and how is it attached to the SSR, can't relly get a mental pic going..
> 
> Cheers
> 
> BDB




Here mate

You can see in the pic the heat sink mounted to the SSR - You use a thermal paste between them... Then you can see the 4 screws in the corner of the heatsink, thats how you mount it to your project box or whatever...

Cheers


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## booargy (21/11/12)

This is my old box it was running 5.4kw of elements 
You can see the green earth attached to the heat sink with a self tapper. The easy way is with an eye lug under the fixing screw like kev said.
The 2 small black wires on the SSR are the low voltage from the PID
The orange wire is the element power circuit. The SSR will not cut power completely so I like to use a mechanical relay but is not needed.


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## bignath (21/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> Does the heatsink screw to the control box's chassis, and the two screw holes between the pairs of connectors on the ssr, screw into the back of the heatsink?



FAIL.



Cocko said:


> You use a thermal paste between them... Then you can see the 4 screws in the corner of the heatsink, thats how you mount it to your project box or whatever...



AH HA!



booargy said:


> View attachment 58633
> 
> This is my old box it was running 5.4kw of elements
> You can see the green earth attached to the heat sink with a self tapper. The easy way is with an eye lug under the fixing screw like kev said.
> ...



Gotcha, thanks booargy. Your pic makes sense to me.


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

OK, i'm getting ready to order my parts i need for this PID control box build.

Here are the things i want to be able to do...

PID to run and control a 2000-2400W element in the mash. This element will be plumbed in similar to QldKev's u-bend type element.

I want two independant mains feeds going into the box, one to control the pid side of things, and one that basically just goes in and then out again with a switch on it that i can run a second element that will NOT be controlled by the PID.
Also on this second mains power input, i would like to be able to run my little brown pump.

I would like switches for all three items; Mash element, Pump, and second element used for the boil.
I would like these switches to illuminate when on too.


Here is a diagram i've drawn up in paint, based on my earlier diagram, but also adding in the SSR earth, second 240V circuit, and switches.

I am not sure if what i've done is possible. I think it is, but not 100% sure yet.

I think it's advisable to earth the SSR yes?
What about switching the 240V before the element? Is that safe to do?
How about using the terminal blocks to split the 240v to the second/third 240v output sockets? Same blocks we use when we all wire up our stc's....is that safe to do?

Can someone take a look and offer feedback? 

Cheers,

Nath


----------



## QldKev (26/11/12)

Sorry I though this thread had been quite, I've only just got an update from AHB.

Looks good so far. 

100% definitely put an earth on the SSR/heat sink. If that thing leaks voltage you want it to use that earth path and not you. 

If you also use a metal enclosure put an earth lead onto it. 

Only addition I would consider is a SSR with resistance input for your second line (ie non PID). Something like this. (may not be best price, just first one I saw) Then you wire in a pot to control the output voltage. You **may** find without the element the boil is too soft, but with it it is too full on. This will allow you to adjust the heat output of the second element to get a great boil. 

Terminal blocks are ok for the jump to your brown pump supply. I would also consider just jumping it from where they screw into the outlet. 
Have you considered circuit breakers, just if your splitting 1 x 10amp supply into 2 x 10amp outlets, it may be easy to forget and plug elements into the both of the outlets. 

You could also consider putting the 12vdc power pack within the enclosure and have a nice easy plug for the 12 supply. (don't use a 240vac style plug), then you cannot accidentally plug 2 elements into the one feed.


Your electrician can advise on my ideas above. <_< 

QldKev


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

QldKev said:


> Sorry I though this thread had been quite, I've only just got an update from AHB.
> 
> Looks good so far.
> 
> ...



Thanks Kev...again! appreciate your thoughts mate.

So re: metal enclosure and earthing that...

If i put a nut and bolt through the enclosure chassis close to the SSR, and earthed the main supply on the top circuit to that, then ran a wire from that to the SSR, is that the idea? So i'd have an earth point on the enclosure with two wires on it. One is the main supply in earth, and a jumper from the same point to the SSR?


----------



## booargy (26/11/12)

Looks good.
the earth will be common to both the circuits. But less joins is better. 
Also it would be a good idea to have someone check it with an insulation resistance tester.


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

Actually just another question i have.....

if it's best to earth the enclosure too (if it's a metal one), i was gonna mount this control box via a metal arm bolted/screwed to my stainless brew table.

Is there anything i need to do after that regarding earths?

ie: Earth SSR to heatsink, Earth all that to the actual enclosure.....is that done and dusted if i do that? My table has rubber/plastic castor wheels....if that makes any difference.

Obviously i don't know much about earthing circuits, i just don't want to end up making my brew table "live"...

Cheers in advance,

N


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

booargy said:


> Looks good.
> the earth will be common to both the circuits. But less joins is better.
> Also it would be a good idea to have someone check it with an insulation resistance tester.



G'day booargy,

are you implying i need to run an earth from the second circuit, to the same earth point as the first circuit?

If so, what would be the best way to do this.... Run a third earth line out of the earth's shared terminal block in the second circuit to the earth point that i use for the SSR and heatsink thing?

cheers for your help too!


----------



## booargy (26/11/12)

If it is screwed/bolted to the table that should be enough.


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

booargy said:


> If it is screwed/bolted to the table that should be enough.



Cool, how's this look now.....added an earth joining both circuits to the chassis of the enclosure with the SSR/Heatsink.





EDIT: moved the "E" so it made sense near the earth wire off of SSR.


----------



## QldKev (26/11/12)

No need to join the 2 circuits. Just ensure the join in the earth lead is 100% perfect. Also where it bolts to the box ensure a good clean join to the metal, ensure there is no paint/plastic enclosure coating in the way stopping the earth contact area. It would not hurt to earth both feed circuits to the enclosure at separate points. If the enclosure is bolted to the metal stand then that should provide an earth circuit for the entire rig. 

edit: Doh!, didn't move the E in the pic


QldKev


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## QldKev (26/11/12)

I should add in the diagram I moved the Earth on the SSR back to the bottom as I think that's a better place to pick up the Earth from. Have a close look at the SSR I linked to earlier, between the 240VAC terminals there is a bolt hole, pick the Earth up from there.


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

QldKev said:


> View attachment 58827
> 
> 
> 
> ...




OK, so how's this look mate?

Have separated the circuits, but still earthed them both to the chassis of the enclosure. Also tidied up the diagram a bit...


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

QldKev said:


> I should add in the diagram I moved the Earth on the SSR back to the bottom as I think that's a better place to pick up the Earth from. Have a close look at the SSR I linked to earlier, between the 240VAC terminals there is a bolt hole, pick the Earth up from there.



gotcha, that makes sense.

That was always where i was gonna take the earth from, just struggled to make it look neat on the diagram..

I'll be back in a sec with a (hopefully) final diagram..


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

RIGHTO, i think i've got it....

i got rid of the terminal blocks in the diagram to help make it neater. the two separate circuits are separated, but each are earthed to the chassis.

I will still probably use the terminal blocks, just got rid of them off the diagram...

comments??




Is this all electrically sound?

and as mentioned before, the plan is to use a metal enclosure and mount it to a metal arm/bracket snenario onto my stainless steel brew table.


----------



## spog (26/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> OK, i'm getting ready to order my parts i need for this PID control box build.
> 
> Here are the things i want to be able to do...
> 
> ...



Big Nath,your proposed set up sounds just like mine.2 elements,1 on a sepererate circuit/switch,then the other hooked up/run through the pid.
i also have 2x 12v switchs,one that isolates the 12v power from the pid to the ssr (so the pid will display temps but not fire the ssr) the other 12v switch is for a future brown pump.
all of the switches are illuminated but different colours so i will know which is which.(i dont want labels by the switches and dont have room on the control box to fit them)
i have the 240v switches on the left hand side,the pid in the middle and the 12v swithes on the right hand side.
the 240v and 12v switches are different looking so you cant confuse them and as above the different colours tell me which is which.
i will get my lad to post pics (buggered if i can) tomorrow evening of the control box,please dont ask for a wiring diagram because when it comes to electrics and computers i am bloody useless.
hope this helps...cheers....spog.

oh my control box is made of wood so all the earthing will be through the inlet earthed cables


----------



## bignath (26/11/12)

spog said:


> Big Nath,your proposed set up sounds just like mine.2 elements,1 on a sepererate circuit/switch,then the other hooked up/run through the pid.
> i also have 2x 12v switchs,one that isolates the 12v power from the pid to the ssr (so the pid will display temps but not fire the ssr) the other 12v switch is for a future brown pump.
> all of the switches are illuminated but different colours so i will know which is which.(i dont want labels by the switches and dont have room on the control box to fit them)
> i have the 240v switches on the left hand side,the pid in the middle and the 12v swithes on the right hand side.
> ...



Sweet, cheers spog...look forward to seeing the pics!

Assuming my diagram is electrically safe and will do the job, now it looks like i need to start thinking about laying it all out, and hunting down an enclosure and the parts...the fun begins!


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

Big Nath heres the pics of the control box,coming in multiple posts 
box rear. lhs inlet for 12v power from an old phone charger with a suitable socket.
then the hookup for the temp probe rtd pt 100.i used a 4 pin microphone male chassis mount (jaycar pp-2010) with a microphone line female 4 pin plug (jaycar ps-2012).
4 pin plugs used because no 3 pin plugs were in store,i just left the 4th pin vacant.
below that is 2 rca chassis mount sockets. (jaycar ps-0256 black, ps-0257 red) i got 2 of each,the other 2 will be hooked up to the future brown pump.
the leads are left over rca leads from an old vcr.
also used was an rca mounting kit (jaycar hp-1180) for use in a metal panel.
next 2x mains socket panel plugs. (jaycar ps-4094).
then the power in cord salvaged from an old clothes dryer.this powers the element that is controlled by the pid.
the blue lead beneath powers the seperate element used for bringing the water upto strike temp and then the boil.


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

spog said:


> View attachment 58861
> Big Nath heres the pics of the control box,coming in multiple posts
> box rear. lhs inlet for 12v power from an old phone charger with a suitable socket.
> then the hookup for the temp probe rtd pt 100.i used a 4 pin microphone male chassis mount (jaycar pp-2010) with a microphone line female 4 pin plug (jaycar ps-2012).
> ...


the front panel is, lhs the switch that powers the seperate element,powered by the blue lead.(jaycar spst 240v 15a sk-0976 blue)
the 2nd switch powers the 2nd element that is controlled by the pid/ssr. (jaycar spst 240v 15amp sk-0979 green).
next the pid, a 1/32 din pid off ebay,the seller was globalbuyerstore in hong kong,cant remember the $.


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

spog said:


> the front panel is, lhs the switch that powers the seperate element,powered by the blue lead.(jaycar spst 240v 15a sk-0976 blue)
> the 2nd switch powers the 2nd element that is controlled by the pid/ssr. (jaycar spst 240v 15amp sk-0979 green).
> next the pid, a 1/32 din pid off ebay,the seller was globalbuyerstore in hong kong,cant remember the $.



next the fuse holder, i stuffed up here,this is a 240v fuse the plan was to use a 12v job to protect the pid/ssr.will fix that.
then the 12v switch that isolates the pid from the ssr so temps can be monitored during /after the boil for pitching temp,
(jaycar spst rocker actuator 12v 30a sl-0955 red).
and finally the last switch which is for the brown pump,same as above but amber in colour.got this from an auto shop.
all the switches are diff colours so i know what does what and i didnt want labels on the control panel.
you can see the 70mm comp fan underneath cooling the ssr,put the heatsink in the cupboard,cant use it in a wooden box.
the ssr is mounted directly above the fan (vent holes yet to be drilled).
oh the 12v fan is wired so as soon as the 12v adapter is turned on the fan comes on so the ssr cant get hot


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

spog said:


> next the fuse holder, i stuffed up here,this is a 240v fuse the plan was to use a 12v job to protect the pid/ssr.will fix that.
> then the 12v switch that isolates the pid from the ssr so temps can be monitored during /after the boil for pitching temp,
> (jaycar spst rocker actuator 12v 30a sl-0955 red).
> and finally the last switch which is for the brown pump,same as above but amber in colour.got this from an auto shop.
> ...



the box measures 270mm w 100mm h 200mm deep. the fascia panels are ally,cut to the same size as the box face and held in plce with 20x12mm brass tiling angles,the kind at the edge of your tiled floors.
the box is made of western red cedar.


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

side view showing angle of box on mounting post so the face of the box can be easily seen as opposed to having it mounted parallel with the brew bench

power point under the bench lip to protect it from water etc,with the 12v adaptor plugged in


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

mounting plate for ssr over fan.


----------



## spog (27/11/12)

mounting bolts ssr over fan


----------



## bignath (28/11/12)

Cheers spog, appreciate it mate.

i'll pm you just in case you don't check back in here for a little while.... would you mind measuring the dimensions of one of those relays?

Here's the progress i've made over the last 24hours. I spent last night in hospital with our daughter (type 1 diabetic) so i had a lot of quiet time on my hands to work on this stuff...
Today i bought the lockable IP66 rated enclosure, 5 x 240v illuminated switches (3 green, 2 red). Was gonna go 3 red and 2 green but they only had 2 red's left. No dramas, red is for the "master switch/emergency stop", and green ones will indicate what element or pump is on. Cool.
I've also bought 2 IEC panel mount male sockets, and have the 3 female 240v panel mains sockets on order.
I have come up with a basic "layout" for my control panel. the idea is to get a sticker made up (ezbrew) that will fill in the gap where i COULD mount a second PID if i ever upgrade this box to use on my 3v rig. Planning ahead and all that shit..Remove "sticker" and i have space for another PID.

I have added in blue lines, the basic power flow for each circuit. Any sparkies out there, no i don't intend to use blue wires for everything....it's just to show (and for me to get this all in my head) how everything is gonna map itself out.

Here's the schematic i'm gonna work from:

Have added in a master/emergency stop for the first circuit - the one that controls PID/SSR.




Here's the basic layout:




Here's the box i bought this morning. Fuckin' hell these things aren't cheap are they? Or maybe i just got reamed, but oh well, for all intents and purposes it's gonna be perfect:





Questions re heatsinks...

I obviously want to use the removable panel to mount the ssr and heatsink arrangement in. Would this panel need to be at the top of the enclosure or would it be ok at the bottom of the enclosure - the door comes off and can be mounted either side, so i can flip the box upside down and have it open the same way.
My brain tells me heat will dissipate better if the sinks are at the top as it can rise away from the enclosure, or doesn't it really matter?
If im planning to make this box expandable for a dual pid setup down the track, can you mount two ssr's to the same heatsink? Im assuming i'll just need to get a bigger heatsink for that job, but is it safe to do this? Is it safe to buy a big heatsink assuming i'll attach two ssr's if i only use for the immediate future?

Do i need to, or SHOULD it add a master switch for the second circuit too? I have bought the switch in case i should do this, and can mount it all ready to go so if i add a second PID, the job's already done...thoughts?

cheers for all your ongoing help guys, and as always, if i'm doing something dumb with all this....please let me know.
Don't wanna be going through all this shit later if i get something wrong. 

Also, when this build is complete, i'm going to do a master thread documenting the whole build, with references back to the two threads i've currently got going. It may be beneficial to someone thinking about going through this journey to have all the info in one thread, AS WELL as both individual threads.

Cheers,

Nath


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## MaltyHops (28/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> i'll pm you just in case you don't check back in here for a little while.... would you mind measuring the dimensions of one of those relays?


The ebay SSR items often have dimensions listed and some that don't
look identical to the _Auber 25A SSR_ which does list the dims.



> Here's the box i bought this morning. Fuckin' hell these things aren't cheap are they? Or maybe i just got reamed, but oh well, for all intents and purposes it's gonna be perfect:


They're not cheap ... unless you have some sparky mates who can
help buy.



> I obviously want to use the removable panel to mount the ssr and heatsink arrangement in.


Why? Mounting the SSR to the lid (assuming this is what you mean)
would just take up real estate on the front panel. Mounting the SSR
within the box would mean the higher power wires can be secured
down more than if it has to connect to something on the lid.

Might be worth looking for something to use like a main plate that
could be secured to the back of the box that you mount items to
and secure cables - this way you can make changes to the layout
without hacking up the box too much - kind of like a removable
"motherboard". You could use DIN rails but these aren't cheap.

TIP: use word or drawing apps to mock up layouts, look at different
designs carefully before comitting. Don't rely on being able to put
things really close together.



> If im planning to make this box expandable for a dual pid setup down the track, can you mount two ssr's to the same heatsink? Im assuming i'll just need to get a bigger heatsink for that job, but is it safe to do this? Is it safe to buy a big heatsink assuming i'll attach two ssr's if i only use for the immediate future?


You could get and put two SSRs in now even if you only use one for
now - an extra SSR is not that expensive - this will make it easier to
make sure you can fit two circuits in the box. Plus you will have a spare
SSR you can change to if one carks it.


----------



## bignath (28/11/12)

MaltyHops said:


> Why? Mounting the SSR to the lid (assuming this is what you mean)
> would just take up real estate on the front panel. Mounting the SSR
> within the box would mean the higher power wires can be secured
> down more than if it has to connect to something on the lid.



Cheers MH, i probably wasn't clear. The enclosure has a removable top panel (shown in picture) that i was gonna use for the ssr/heatsink. Not in the door (front panel). 
If i stand the whole enclosure up on it's bottom, with the door able to open out toward me, the removable panel would be in the top panel of the enclosure.
The enclosure measures 300 x 250x 155 (mm's)



> Might be worth looking for something to use like a main plate that
> could be secured to the back of the box that you mount items to
> and secure cables - this way you can make changes to the layout
> without hacking up the box too much - kind of like a removable
> "motherboard". You could use DIN rails but these aren't cheap.



Yep the enclosure i have has a removable steel board that i could tie down the cables to nice and neat, and then this screws into the back of the box.



> You could get and put two SSRs in now even if you only use one for
> now - an extra SSR is not that expensive - this will make it easier to
> make sure you can fit two circuits in the box. Plus you will have a spare
> SSR you can change to if one carks it.



Awesome, might go and get two ssr's and kit it all out ready for future expansion.

thanks for all your help.

what do you think about putting a master switch on the second circuit?

cheers,

Nath


----------



## QldKev (28/11/12)

Check with the enclosure supplier they may have SSR mounting blocks to fit the cut out. 

Something like this one, but that suits the AuberInst enclosure. 


QldKev


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## bignath (28/11/12)

Hmmm, okay i'll go and ask 'em.

thoughts regarding the master switch(s)? would you use any at all? Just the first circuit? One on each circuit?


----------



## QldKev (28/11/12)

I wouldn't bother with the master switches, unless yo were going to use an emergency stop  button. (not best price just first ones found). If you do add a switch / stop button I would put it on bother circuits to keep it the same. 

QldKev


----------



## bignath (28/11/12)

QldKev said:


> I wouldn't bother with the master switches, unless yo were going to use an emergency stop  button. (not best price just first ones found). If you do add a switch / stop button I would put it on bother circuits to keep it the same.
> 
> QldKev



righto, thanks again Kev. Maybe i'll leave them out.

cheers,

Nath


----------



## spog (28/11/12)

Big Nath, just logged on ,dunno the dimensions of the ssr,i think they are a common size (obviously no help) to tell you the truth i am bed atm and have no intention of going down to the shed and measuring it. (taking the piss,no offence).
i still have the heatsink that came with the ssr and have no use for it,if you want it pm your address and i will send it to you no probs
the pid is a 40amp job but its stuffed so i have ordered a 25amp from ebay to replace it.actually i bought 5x25amp ssr's for $20.70 postage free.cant have too many  
when i get the ssr the ongoing build will get closer to completion then the brewing will kick off.

..cheers....spog....


----------



## bignath (28/11/12)

no worries spog...rest up mate!

actually, after i wrote the earlier post, i tracked down the ssr and heatsink on ebay and that had the dimensions of the heatsink. as they are going to both go together that's all the info i needed.

General question...

i didn't realise just how small 45mm x 45mm square is. (PID dimensions according to auberins).

are they hard to read? 

i cut out a 45 x 45 piece of cardboard to get a feel for how big it's gonna be in my control box, and there's gonna be a lot of leftover space....


----------



## Cocko (28/11/12)

My box is: 

24cm wide X 16cm high... PID is 5cm square.

I have no problem reading it.

My main problem is giggling as it steps trough the mash.. its like it knows what I want it to do!!  

B)


----------



## bignath (28/11/12)

Cocko said:


> My main problem is giggling as it steps trough the mash.. its like it knows what I want it to do!!
> 
> B)
> 
> View attachment 58903



yeah, cheers cocko mate.

your opinion on ramp soak, buy it once buy it right swayed me to go the ramp soak option.
Don't have to use it, but i'm sure i will


----------



## Cocko (28/11/12)

Big Nath said:


> yeah, cheers cocko mate.
> 
> your opinion on ramp soak, buy it once buy it right swayed me to go the ramp soak option.
> Don't have to use it, but i'm sure i will




Loving watching it come together for you mate, keep the pics and posts coming!

Its like we are all now waiting for your postman!

Best part!

:icon_cheers:


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## MaltyHops (29/11/12)

Cocko said:


> ... Its like we are all now waiting for your postman!


Watch out if he _always rings twice_**  .............. ** movie joke


----------



## bignath (29/11/12)

Cocko said:


> Loving watching it come together for you mate, keep the pics and posts coming!
> 
> Its like we are all now waiting for your postman!
> 
> ...



It's only the best part if you're not the one waiting for the postie! This one is gonna drive me nuts I can tell. I've never ordered this much stuff for a project before. Can't wait to assemble it. Realistically it will be a month though. It's a Chrissy present from Mrs Nath. I will take snaps as the parts arrive and can start laying it all out. Just can't 'assemble' it till Dec 25. That was the deal I madewith her.

Oh we'll, at least the project is moving forward.

How quick are Auberins freighting stuff to Ostraya?


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

Bored out of my mind last night, trawling through some youtube vids about PID controllers, i came across a vid where they guy had an LED that was showing when the PID was triggering the relay.
I am sure this is nothing new and amazing, but it's something i'd like to do with my rig to dress it up. Yes i know the PID displays on the screen of the PID when it's firing the relay, but i still want the little light on my control panel just 'cause it looks cool.

Looking through my Jaycar catalogue, suggests that the 12v LED's only have two wires coming off them.
Would i just attach each side to the 12V LED to the "hotter" 12V control feed from the pid? ie; only need to wire it in series across the one power feed?

cheers 

BN


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## black_labb (1/12/12)

You can wire the light (you sure it's a 12v led?) To the 12v or you could get a 240v light and wire it in parallel to the element. This way you know if the relay blows. Either wayis fine, but my lid already tells me when the element is switched on. It's an auberins btw


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

black_labb said:


> You can wire the light (you sure it's a 12v led?) To the 12v or you could get a 240v light and wire it in parallel to the element. This way you know if the relay blows. Either wayis fine, but my lid already tells me when the element is switched on. It's an auberins btw



I can get both 12v and 240v but I like the visual appearance of the 12v chrome bezel led's, in which case I'll be using the 12v control feed from PID to ssr. So I just work out which is the hot cable from the 12v feed, connect it to one led wire, and the other led wire continues on to the ssr? 
The neutral 12v feed from the PID goes straight to the ssr?


----------



## black_labb (1/12/12)

Pretty sure you can get the 240v version in the same look. I'm pretty sure I've got one I bought from jay car in my parts bin that will be mounted on my brewery as described when I feel like prettying up the system.


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

Cool, but what about the wiring for it? Do I only connect it inline on the hot wire?


----------



## black_labb (1/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> Cool, but what about the wiring for it? Do I only connect it inline on the hot wire?


For the 240v I'd connect one end to one side of the element and the other to the other end of the element. this is wiring it in parralell Haven't read much of the thread but if you are not 100% on electronics make sure someone checks things over aka a sparky.if I was at home I'd draw you a diagram, but I can,t here.

Edit: no, not in line.


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

This is what i was thinking.....is this correct or not?




cheers for your help with this 'labb.


Picture is taken from a wiring diagram i have drawn up and had feedback on from several which indicate the rest of the diagram is correct. Just wanted clarification on this particular part with the LED.

Cheers,

Nath


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## Kingbrownbrewing (1/12/12)

A question...
If you use a pt100 sensor there are 3 wires, but only 2 spots to attach them on the PID.
Which ones go where?
Mine isn't registering as receiving a clear temp signal, and yes that PID is compatible with rtd pt 100.


----------



## QldKev (1/12/12)

B) 




Check for the exact resister value needed when you buy your LED. 

QldKev


----------



## QldKev (1/12/12)

King Brown Brewing said:


> A question...
> If you use a pt100 sensor there are 3 wires, but only 2 spots to attach them on the PID.
> Which ones go where?
> Mine isn't registering as receiving a clear temp signal, and yes that PID is compatible with rtd pt 100.




What brand/model PID is it, there must be a third hook up somewhere? 

QldKev


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## bignath (1/12/12)

Legend...

Thanks yet again Kev.


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

Does it matter what side of the led the resistor goes to?

Does it matter which 12v wire goes to which side of the led?


----------



## QldKev (1/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> Does it matter what side of the led the resistor goes to?
> 
> Does it matter which 12v wire goes to which side of the led?



The LED does need to be wired for polarity.
The long leg of the LED is POS, attach the resistor to it, then hook it up to the pos line. 
Connect the short negative leg of the LED to the neg run. 

The resistor does not need to be wired for polarity, so as long as it's inline it doesn't matter which direction it's pointing.

Technically you could run the resistor after the LED as long as you got the LED's polarity correct, but I prefer to wire all resister before as a standard so it's easy to see whats happening. 

edit: Just so you understand, the LED wiring doesn't have to be in the middle of the run, you could jumper into the screw terminals at either the PID or SSR

QldKev


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

Awesome, thanks Kev, i understand completely.

Will go get led and resistor Monday while i'm waiting for the rest of my parts.

Cheers again for your help getting this project off the ground. I love learning all this stuff. It may not necessarily come naturally to me, but i love learning new stuff like this. 

Completely positive i can now put it all together safely.

cheers,

Nath


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing (1/12/12)

Got it working, apparently you connect it to '5'...
It's working a great without to much programming.
Now that I have power to it and it works, any tips for setting it up??
Here are some photos...


----------



## QldKev (1/12/12)

KBB, bit of bling happening B) 

Good ol Sestos pid, terminals 3, 4 and 5. 

Throw some water in it to approx the same you would use in a brew, allowing a bit extra for the extra thermal mass of the grain that would normally be in there. Then set the pid to auto tune and sit back and watch the flashing lights.

QldKev


----------



## bignath (1/12/12)

KBB,

What do all those switches do mate?

Wicked looking control box!


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing (1/12/12)

Kev,
Pray tell how I auto tune, I don't speak Chinese, and the instructions were all in it...
Nath
Got:
2 march pumps
1 PID for HLT
1 PID for Herms
1 Emerson element
On/ off switches for the PIDs to control the element and the PID still has power so I can use it for temp control and shit.


----------



## QldKev (1/12/12)

King Brown Brewing said:


> Kev,
> Pray tell how I auto tune, I don't speak Chinese, and the instructions were all in it...
> Nath
> Got:
> ...




Hold Set key 2 secs until in settings mode
Scroll until "CtrL" displayed
Set value to "2" (Auto Adjust)
Wait 10secs for unit to return to operate mode and commence auto adjust. 

Auto adj may take from few seconds to few hours  

QldKev


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing (1/12/12)

Ok looks like it is doing it.
It's counting up from about 20...
What if the temp is out of sack after the auto thing? Can you re calibrate it?


----------



## QldKev (1/12/12)

King Brown Brewing said:


> Ok looks like it is doing it.
> It's counting up from about 20...
> What if the temp is out of sack after the auto thing? Can you re calibrate it?




Yep no problems. It's just getting values for how much overshoot and the rate of temp drop off. So if you tweak the temp it makes bugger all difference. I should have mentioned to set it to about 66c before running it, but no biggy. If you should make a huge change to the insulation, or add more / reduce the heating potential to the heat exchanger, or substantially changed the pump flow, then you should re-run the auto tune. 

QldKev


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing (2/12/12)

Kev
After thinking I got it working yesterday, I was sadly mistaken and now I can't get the thing to autotune for the life of me...
I do exactly as you said and then it goes back to the 'main screen' and does nothing...
What have I done?
It's just blinking between AT and 66 which is the temp I had it set as.


----------



## QldKev (2/12/12)

King Brown Brewing said:


> Kev
> After thinking I got it working yesterday, I was sadly mistaken and now I can't get the thing to autotune for the life of me...
> I do exactly as you said and then it goes back to the 'main screen' and does nothing...
> What have I done?
> It's just blinking between AT and 66 which is the temp I had it set as.



From memory I think mine did blink between AT and 66 in the autotune mode. Not 100% sure, I've only ran it the once myself.

Hopefully this version of the guide will help better.


----------



## Kingbrownbrewing (2/12/12)

thanks mate, it was actually working, the bloody Sestos instructions are in the most basic and broken Engrish, I couldn't figure out what I needed to press.

Working a treat now.

How does it go when I want to ramp it up to 66, or to ramp it up to 76 or so for mashout?

Will I need to re autotune it for that value?


----------



## QldKev (2/12/12)

Glad you got it working. Only the one auto-tune is needed, if you rerun it at another temperature it will overwrite all the values from the prior one. Hence we pick the medium ground for the run. 

QldKev


----------



## bignath (8/12/12)

Just to revisit the brief discussion from QldKev regarding using led's and resistors.

Have just returned home from Jaycar with a couple of these led's as i couldn't make up my mind if i want to use red or green, and noticed that the resistors are all attached to the negative wire (soldered and heatshrunk'ed).

I was under the impression that the resistor should be on the positive?

Is this a problem?




EDIT:
ran picture through paint to more clearly show the resistor.


----------



## QldKev (8/12/12)

All is good. 

As long as you wire the LED with the correct polarity, 
the resister can be put in any polarity, and before or after the LED. 
Ultimately as long as you have provided the resistance in the circuit is all that matters. 

I think I mentioned, I prefer to put the resister prior to the LED, but that is just to make it easier to visualize when chasing wiring issues. 

edit:
From the other post
_"Technically you could run the resistor after the LED as long as you got the LED's polarity correct, but I prefer to wire all resister before as a standard so it's easy to see whats happening."_
With the term after the resistor I was referring to the negative line. 

QldKev


----------



## bignath (8/12/12)

QldKev said:


> From the other post
> _"Technically you could run the resistor after the LED as long as you got the LED's polarity correct, but I prefer to wire all resister before as a standard so it's easy to see whats happening."_
> With the term after the resistor I was referring to the negative line.



ahh, sweet thanks Kev. That makes sense. I initially though you were saying "after the led" meaning still on the positive, before the ssr.

So the resistor is cool to have it on the negative, all i need to do is make sure i wire the pos LED to pos 12V and neg LED to neg 12v and all will be cool?

cheers mate,

Nath


----------



## QldKev (8/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> ahh, sweet thanks Kev. That makes sense. I initially though you were saying "after the led" meaning still on the positive, before the ssr.
> 
> So the resistor is cool to have it on the negative, all i need to do is make sure i wire the pos LED to pos 12V and neg LED to neg 12v and all will be cool?
> 
> ...




Yep, that's it. 

And then write a how-to guild with a parts list for anyone else wanting to go this direction.  

QldKev


----------



## bignath (8/12/12)

QldKev said:


> And then write a how-to guild with a parts list for anyone else wanting to go this direction.



Yep, i completely intend on doing just that.

I will need to remember to take shots of the build as i go. Won't be for several weeks though. The enclosure is a christmas present from the wife so it's all wrapped up under the bloody tree...

All parts have now been acquired apart from the 240v output panel mounts which are on order from Jaycar, and the PID and probe which has been ordered....waiting on the postie!


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

Look what just arrived on my doorstep!

Happy days indeed.

And to top it all off, the wife has said i can start putting it together now, provided i don't mind waking up christmas day without a present from her (this PID venture is a chrissy gift from Mrs BigNath). 

"No problem" i said...

The only thing i'm waiting on now, is the 240V outlet panel mounts for the enclosure.

Will start a new thread documenting the entire build with part numbers, approx costings, and photos/explanations.

Also i have re-jigged my wiring diagram to add more power outlets off of the second mains supply. They will never be used all the time (as explained in the picture) so this should keep everything below or at 10A load.

Can someone just give it the once over and confirm for the last time that what i am about to do will be ok?

Cheers,

Nath

Present from the postie.. Ramp/Soak PID, 8inch RTD weldless probe with SS deluxe braided cable and panel mount.




Wiring schematic...



Enclosure layout with single PID. Upgradeable for a second PID if i want dual controllers on my 3V (although this box is intended mainly for my 1V).



EDIT: The black rectangle in the layout diagram is the door lock.


----------



## QldKev (12/12/12)

Parts looks good, I'd be wiring it before Chrissy :lol: 

I don't like the wiring  

The part that scares me... On the second circuit the idea of allowing a user to manual switch between using the heater OR pump/drill when they could leave both powered up = not good.
Either
1. Put in a Circuit-Breaker to suit the line feed (ie 10amp) 
2. Put in a combined Combined-RCD-MCB
3. If the switches you are using are double throw, use the NO to run the element output and the NC to run the other outlets. 

I thought maybe always plugging the second circuit via a powerboard to use it's max 10amp breaker, but once again one day you may not. 

Also don't call it drill, call it mill. :huh: Later you may update to a motor. Also does this need to go via the control box? 


Finally (on my making it look 100% like QldKev would build) I don't think the controls flow nicely on the layout.




QldKev


----------



## glenwal (12/12/12)

QldKev said:


> Parts looks good, I'd be wiring it before Chrissy :lol:
> 
> I don't like the wiring
> 
> ...




I'd be doing (1 or 2) and 3. 3 will provide "every day use" idiot/f-up protection, and 1 or 2 is always a good practice when supplying multiple outlets.


----------



## porky (12/12/12)

The standard wire used in homes is 2.5mm squared. It can handle up to like 30 amps. I am surprised that you only have 10 amp breakers. My house has 20 amp for the power points and 10 for the lighting circuits. Have a sparky check this for you, put in a 16 or 20 and you will be able to run all at once if need be.


----------



## glenwal (12/12/12)

budwiser said:


> The standard wire used in homes is 2.5mm squared. It can handle up to like 30 amps. I am surprised that you only have 10 amp breakers. My house has 20 amp for the power points and 10 for the lighting circuits. Have a sparky check this for you, put in a 16 or 20 and you will be able to run all at once if need be.



Except the GPO is only rated at 10 amp. The reason the breaker (and wiring) is rated higher is because you generally have more than 1 gpo on a circuit.

Drawing more than 10A from a 10A GPO will not blow a breaker, but is also not a good idea.


----------



## QldKev (12/12/12)

budwiser said:


> The standard wire used in homes is 2.5mm squared. It can handle up to like 30 amps. I am surprised that you only have 10 amp breakers. My house has 20 amp for the power points and 10 for the lighting circuits. Have a sparky check this for you, put in a 16 or 20 and you will be able to run all at once if need be.






Glen W said:


> Except the GPO is only rated at 10 amp. The reason the breaker (and wiring) is rated higher is because you generally have more than 1 gpo on a circuit.
> 
> Drawing more than 10A from a 10A GPO will not blow a breaker, but is also not a good idea.




I've also assumed Big Nath will be running from standard 10amp GPOs; hence the idea to limit the max draw to 10amp. But if Big Nath has access to a 15amp or 20amp outlet we can make life easier. I think to change to a 15 or 20amp GPO you can only have the one outlet on the line, but I'm not 100% sure.

:icon_offtopic: (but still close) 
Does anyone know with a double GPO, is it ok to draw 10amp from each outlet at the same time. So in the case of Big Nath's control box plugging the 2 circuits into 1 double GPO. 

QldKev


----------



## glenwal (12/12/12)

QldKev said:


> I've also assumed Big Nath will be running from standard 10amp GPOs; hence the idea to limit the max draw to 10amp. But if Big Nath has access to a 15amp or 20amp outlet we can make life easier. I think to change to a 15 or 20amp GPO you can only have the one outlet on the line, but I'm not 100% sure.
> 
> :icon_offtopic: (but still close)
> Does anyone know with a double GPO, is it ok to draw 10amp from each outlet at the same time. So in the case of Big Nath's control box plugging the 2 circuits into 1 double GPO.
> ...



If they use an internal distribution bar (ie, you feed in 1 set of wires and it powers both outlets) then they are rated at 10A total. If you feed a seperate set of wires into each outlet then it is 10A per outlet (since in this case they aren't really a "double" outlet, but actually 2 outlets in 1 plate)


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

Hi guys, cheers for the input.

Kev, im a bit confused mate.

What i've tried to do with the diagram, is basically just add another "ganged" outlet to the second circuit so there's 4 in total (kind of acting like a four outlet power board).

Im not sure what's different. What i want to do with the second circuit, is have the element (red switch) off during the mash obviously, as this will be taken care of by the PID. I want to be able to have power to the pump, power to operate mill, and power to laptop all be independently.

The second circuit element, wont ever be on at the same time that the pump and mill outlets are on, as the second element is for the boil only so pump and mill will have been finished using by that stage.

I'm wondering if the description i used in the diagram about how it will work has confused a bit, or i've maybe confused myself.

Not sure why the diagram when it was 3 outlets on the second circuit was fine, but adding one extra is requiring all the mods...
In your diagram with the switch utilising the NC contacts, i wouldn't be able to use the laptop and the second element would i??
can you explain it to me?

Cheers mate,

Nath

oh, by the way, this whole enclosure will be run off two separate power circuits in the house. 1 will be an outdoor power point to the water softener, and the second will be by unplugging my flouro light in the patio as it's on a separate circuit.

If i could run this all off of a double powerpoint i would, but at the moment it doesn't appear to be an option, so i'll just be going with as described for now. It's how i currently power up my elements.


----------



## QldKev (12/12/12)

What we are concerned about it that you have "ganged" 4 outlets into 1 supply with no overload protection. In the case of a 4 outlet powerboard it has a 10amp circuit breaker built in, that little black button on the side. In your case your building the 4 outlet power board, but you have not added any form of overload protection to it. 

The extra 4th outlet is not the problem, even back with just 2 outletshere I mentioned _"Have you considered circuit breakers, just if your splitting 1 x 10amp supply into 2 x 10amp outlets, it may be easy to forget and plug elements into the both of the outlets." _

I understand you have no intention of running the second element and the drill at the same time. One day you may decide to do a brew and throw that second element in the pot to bring it up to strike temps quicker. Not thinking about it, next thing you've fired up the mill and milling away with a load total load 2400w element + 800w drill + laptop (maybe even the pump to help with a nice even water temp) , all running through cables and switches designed for 10amp, with no overload protection. I would hate for a fire to break out and you loose loved ones over it. If you had the 10amp circuit breaker in place, in theory it should trip and save you. 

Think of each 10amp outlet being a potential of a 10amp load. Never leave it up to the user to always make the best decision. 

With the NC circuit you would not have power for the laptop. I planned it that way as your element would be the full 10amp load. As Glen W mentioned, really you should have option 1 or 2 and also possibly add option 3 as well. 

I am not an electrician and your electrician will be able to advise best on this subject. 

QldKev


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

QldKev said:


> What we are concerned about it that you have "ganged" 4 outlets into 1 supply with no overload protection. In the case of a 4 outlet powerboard it has a 10amp circuit breaker built in, that little black button on the side. In your case your building the 4 outlet power board, but you have not added any form of overload protection to it.
> 
> The extra 4th outlet is not the problem, even back with just 2 outletshere I mentioned _"Have you considered circuit breakers, just if your splitting 1 x 10amp supply into 2 x 10amp outlets, it may be easy to forget and plug elements into the both of the outlets." _
> 
> ...



Ahh, gotcha. I understand now. 

So how would I go about adding a circuit breaker in my box? Where would it go in relation to the diagram?

Or, would it be better/easier/smarter to run a mains in for every planned outlet? Ie: could I run PID from one power point, and then the other four off of a four board (which would then have circuit breaker)? Feed each appliance in the enclosure from each outlet of the four board?


----------



## porky (12/12/12)

Glen W said:


> Except the GPO is only rated at 10 amp. The reason the breaker (and wiring) is rated higher is because you generally have more than 1 gpo on a circuit.
> 
> Drawing more than 10A from a 10A GPO will not blow a breaker, but is also not a good idea.






This is true, so he could add another GPO if the breakers are in fact big enough. But it seems he has it covered anyway.


----------



## ian ulrick (12/12/12)

Need confirmation that I will have the right order for my setup.

HLT

1 X 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control output) & Liquid tight RTD sensor, 8 in, 1/2 NPT Thread

HERMIT

1 X PID Temperature Controller w/ Ramp/soak, Kiln (SSR Output) & Liquid tight RTD sensor, 8 in, 1/2 NPT Thread

Now I am looking at having a timer to turn the HLT on to heat up before I start and to use with an alarm for hop additions. 

Will this be what I am looking for.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_pag...products_id=290

Thanks in advance and if you can see another option please let me know.

Baldrick.

Edit: Sorry if I have hijacked your thread for a sec BigNath


----------



## QldKev (12/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> Ahh, gotcha. I understand now.
> 
> So how would I go about adding a circuit breaker in my box? Where would it go in relation to the diagram?
> 
> Or, would it be better/easier/smarter to run a mains in for every planned outlet? Ie: could I run PID from one power point, and then the other four off of a four board (which would then have circuit breaker)? Feed each appliance in the enclosure from each outlet of the four board?




To add the single pole Circuit Beaker from "option 1" 


Note: I also added one to your other pid circuit. 


I think running separate mains circuits in and out of the enclosure for each item would be a hassle, it would work though. I could understand if you was going to run a full 10amp GPO to each. 

I'm also not sure why you want the mill and laptop via the control box? I think it would be easier to leave them out of it. Plug the 2nd control box circuit into a power board. Then from that same external power board add in the drill and laptop. Just an idea.



QldKev


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

Thanks Kev. So this would in theory "work" too?




I see how you've added the breaker to the mains inputs in my diagram. Makes sense, and looks like being heaps easier than using a four board like the above photo.

I have been thinking about future proofing the enclosure, so i was trying to add all the outlets that i'd ever need in one hit and use them as described, and then if needed due to upgrading to a second pid, or second pump, or other small appliances, i'd already have them installed, and then i'd just run the laptop on batteries and change switch labels to suit the future upgrade.
A second pump could go to the laptop out, or the mill out etc...Or i could run a small clip on light as i'm taking one of the feeds from my outside flouro for example.

So circuit breakers are literally just a positive in and positive out are they? Do they need to be earthed?
Do you just install them on a "rail" somewhere inside the box?

Was looking at them the other day in the hardware store, but didnt pay attention to how they wire up...

Cheers again mate for all your help.

Nath


----------



## Jez (12/12/12)

Big Nath, once you have the PID wired up and running the link below will help as a shortcut to programming it:

http://theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=11

Skip the wiring part and scroll to the programming part down the bottom. It sets out which values you need to change and which you can leave alone. I found it a big help.

Jez


----------



## glenwal (12/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> So circuit breakers are literally just a positive in and positive out are they? Do they need to be earthed?
> Do you just install them on a "rail" somewhere inside the box?



No need for earth, but you will want access to the switch/button on them so if they trip you can reset them.

Something like this is easy to mount in a panel

edit: fixed link


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

Jez said:


> Big Nath, once you have the PID wired up and running the link below will help as a shortcut to programming it:
> 
> http://theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=11
> 
> ...



Thanks Jez, i'll check it out. That was gonna be the next few questions i was gonna put up here....as in "how the hell do you program these little bastards"?



Glen W said:


> No need for earth, but you will want access to the switch/button on them so if they trip you can reset them.
> 
> Something like this is easy to mount in a panel
> 
> edit: fixed link



Cheers Glen.

So an item like that would completely take the place of a more traditional circuit breaker like you'd find in a home circuit board? Looks easy enough to me!


----------



## QldKev (12/12/12)

Glen W said:


> No need for earth, but you will want access to the switch/button on them so if they trip you can reset them.
> 
> Something like this is easy to mount in a panel
> 
> edit: fixed link



I like that one, heaps better idea

QldKev


----------



## Lakey (12/12/12)

To make it alot easier for yourself get an electrician to install a 20a or even a 32a protected circuit to your brewimg area then you will have the capacity to split that circuit up in the box to all the circuits you want using breakers. Main power comes in then bus bar to the breakers for each circuit all on din rail, pid can go on the din rail too.


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

QldKev said:


> I like that one, heaps better idea
> 
> QldKev



Right. I'll go and grab two of those bad boys tomorrow.

The picture of it, and i've also just looked through my jaycar catalogue, it shows near the button "5A". Is that a problem in the sense that the circuits would both need 10 amps?



Lakey said:


> To make it alot easier for yourself get an electrician to install a 20a or even a 32a protected circuit to your brewimg area then you will have the capacity to split that circuit up in the box to all the circuits you want using breakers. Main power comes in then bus bar to the breakers for each circuit all on din rail, pid can go on the din rail too.



Cheers mate, yeah i've looked (very roughly mind you) at getting some dedicated power outside to the brewery area, but at this stage i probably need to save some coin on doing that.
One day though... one day....


----------



## glenwal (12/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> The picture of it, and i've also just looked through my jaycar catalogue, it shows near the button "5A". Is that a problem in the sense that the circuits would both need 10 amps?


I think they have just re-used the picture (they sell them in different ratings). Make sure you get one with 10A on it.


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

Glen W said:


> I think they have just re-used the picture (they sell them in different ratings). Make sure you get one with 10A on it.



Awesome, thanks Glen you're a champ.

So, if i get two of those breakers and install them as per the diagram that kev modified, everything is good to start wiring her up? 

And i think i'd like to keep the enclosure layout the same as i posted earlier... all good??


----------



## glenwal (12/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> Awesome, thanks Glen you're a champ.
> 
> So, if i get two of those breakers and install them as per the diagram that kev modified, everything is good to start wiring her up?
> 
> And i think i'd like to keep the enclosure layout the same as i posted earlier... all good??


No worries. Sounds good.


----------



## bignath (12/12/12)

OK, so that's the final nail in the coffin then yeah?

I don't need to consider anything else before i start the assembly? Only reason i ask is this enclosure was bloody pricey, and i need to settle on the wiring and layout and all that crap before i go punching holes in the box.

Assuming "im done" and nothing else needs looking at, i'd like to formally thank both GlenW and in particular a huge thanks to QldKev for all of you guys' help along the way with all this stuff.

I said from the outset if i could just get a little help i was sure i could get this stuff safely assembled, and i love learning about new stuff when it comes to most things (in particular brewing) and without you guys helping me out, i'd be rooted.

Thanks fellas.

Nathan


----------



## bignath (13/12/12)

just a quickie about circuit breakers. Went to jaycar this morning, and talked to him about circuit breakers.

I did some reading about "thermal circuit breakers" like the barrel shaped one in a few posts above this, and it seems like the thermal ones rely on temp of the breaker to expand and separate the contacts. 
The rating on them only seems to be around 25deg, so i asked local Jaycar man about them. 

He advised i should be using a mechanical relay, so i've ordered two of these:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SF2258

rated at 250V, 10amp and they are panel mount too. Saw them in person (the 5A versions though) and they look nice and neat. 

Now just waiting on my 240v outlet panel mount sockets, and the circuit breakers and i'll start putting it all together.


----------



## glenwal (13/12/12)

Big Nath said:


> I did some reading about "thermal circuit breakers" like the barrel shaped one in a few posts above this, and it seems like the thermal ones rely on temp of the breaker to expand and separate the contacts.
> The rating on them only seems to be around 25deg, so i asked local Jaycar man about them.



Wow - 25 <_< . Makes it pretty much useless you only need to use it outdoors in winter.


----------



## bignath (13/12/12)

Glen W said:


> Wow - 25 <_< . Makes it pretty much useless you only need to use it outdoors in winter.



yeah that's what i was thinking too. A hot day (like today) and there's a big chance i won't even get to heat my strike water.


----------



## QldKev (13/12/12)

I think you'll find even the thermal would be ok, 25c is the rated temp but you just need to apply a correction for how hot it is. You can get more than the rated power through the breaker, it will trip based on load x time. The last breaker you found will probably be easy to mount as you just need to drill a round hole.


----------



## joshuahardie (15/1/13)

Great topic guys,
Im subscribing, cause I wanna see the build, to copy it later in the year.

Thumbs up.


----------



## br33zy (21/1/13)

Just read this thread from start to finish. Very, very, very informative; and perfect timing for me as I set up my brewspace.

Well done to you Big Nath for persisting and to everyone else for being so helpful.

Looking forward to the final build!


----------



## mattlea266 (4/6/13)

Hey Big Nath,
Just wondering where you are at with this. 

I had a thought about running 2 X 2200 watt elements of one ssr. I think they draw about 18- 19amps and I can get an SSR that does 25 or even 40 amps. I have a mate who is a sparky and he can run a dedicated brewery powerpoint. From my understanding this would work. Also, if this is possible could I run 2 seperate points from the SSR, 1 for each element (2 wires out of one ssr contact). 

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## QldKev (4/6/13)

Your



mattyl said:


> Hey Big Nath,
> Just wondering where you are at with this.
> 
> I had a thought about running 2 X 2200 watt elements of one ssr. I think they draw about 18- 19amps and I can get an SSR that does 25 or even 40 amps. I have a mate who is a sparky and he can run a dedicated brewery powerpoint. From my understanding this would work. Also, if this is possible could I run 2 seperate points from the SSR, 1 for each element (2 wires out of one ssr contact).
> ...


First yes, if your sparky mate setup a 20amp powerpoint that would be possible to run 2 element from the one SSR. I would use at least a 40amp SSR, that way it wont get as hot as the 25 would.

For your second question. A pid can control more than 1 SSR. So you could use two separate power points, wired to it's own SSR and to the dedicated element. Then the pid just switches both SSRs on and off for you. I happen to have 4 x 10amp feeds and 3 SSRs / 3 elements from 1 of my pids in my control panel.

Here's my wiring diagram (diagram for ideas only, your electrician will verify if it is correct)


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## QldKev (4/6/13)

Maybe the full wiring diagram is a bit complex. Here's a simple view of the SSR hookup


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## mattlea266 (4/6/13)

QldKev said:


> Maybe the full wiring diagram is a bit complex. Here's a simple view of the SSR hookup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great info as usual. I did work my way through the other diagram. This one makes it much simpler and this means I could avoid having my mate put a power point in, for a while anyway. My house has 2 power circuits so I usually just run a lead for the second element. I actually thought of doing what you have shown me but was not sure if it was possible, so you have answered another question for me.
Thanks Kev


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## mattlea266 (6/5/14)

Thought I would put up a pic of what I ended up doing. This can run my herms HX, my boil and a recirculating pump. I do double batches using a recirculating BIAB.
DISCLAIMER ** PLEASE DONT COPY. I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN. IDEAS ONLY**
Have 60 amp line to garage. Then ran 4 individual 10 amp feeds to brew area hanging from ceiling. This has a pump switch at the bottom as well.




Not quite finished yet. 2 auber deluxe thermocouples and sestos pid in the mail. Was going to go with auber ramp/soak but got too costly. May upgrade later.


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