# Kooinda Black Ipa



## punkin (13/1/12)

I'd like to brew a black IPA in the style this beer is brewed in. I really enjoyed one on New Years Eve.

There's a couple links here to a vague description, one says the hops are all Nelson Sauvign, dry hopped and 70 ibu's so that bit should be possible for me to replicate.

I have no idea baout the grain bill however, aside from that they say "It uses dehusked malt to provide its black colour & is combined with 6 specialty malts to provide a black beer with the body & flavour of a traditional India Pale Ale."

http://www.kooinda.com.au/the-beer/black-ipa/

http://craftypint.com/beer/brewery/kooinda...aka-full-nelson


Some help from those more experienced would be appreciated.


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## punkin (13/1/12)

Found these proposed style guidlines..

It's also called Cacadian Dark Ale as well as black IPA or IBA



> This just in, via the Oregon Brew Crew Feb. '10 newsletter.
> 
> Aroma: prominent NW hop aromas: citrus, pine, resinous, sweet malt, hints of roast, toast, chocolate malt, and/or Carafa back-up the hops. Dry hopped character is often present. No diacetyl, esters generally range from low to none.
> 
> ...


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## Truman42 (13/1/12)

I just recently did this Black IPA which was a recipe given to me by Scrumpy. It was very nice but wasn't quite as bitter or hoppy as Kooindas, (Which is a bloody nice drop I must admit)
You may want to increase the IBU to match Kooindas bitterness and increase the 0 min or dry hop addition to match also.

SG 1.060
FG 1.014
75 min boil
mash at 65

American Ale 1272
Grain %
Pilsener	78
Biscuit	6
Wheat	6
Crystal medium	4
Carafa II	3
Chocolate	3

Centennial 60 mins to 50 IBU 
EKG 10 mins to 5 IBU 
EKG approx 1 gram per litre at 0 mins

Dry hop with Centennial 1 gram per litre


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## punkin (14/1/12)

Good stuff mate. In all my readings so far they say that dehusked carafa is an important ingredient. Is the carafa 11 dehusked or do you have to ask for dehusked?

This one seems like a typical basic recipe...



> A Midsummers Day Night (brewed on July 31, 2010 with J.P. Bierly)
> 
> Grain Bill
> 
> ...


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## Mayor of Mildura (14/1/12)

punkin said:


> Good stuff mate. In all my readings so far they say that dehusked carafa is an important ingredient. Is the carafa 11 dehusked or do you have to ask for dehusked?
> 
> This one seems like a typical basic recipe...


here it is on craftbrewer. It comes dehusked. Another dark malt that you may want to consider is Briess midnight wheat. I got some from grain and grape. Similar to the carafa it adds colour without adding the intense roasted flavour.


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## punkin (14/1/12)

So a bit of dicking round with your recipe gave me this...



> *Black IPA1* (Cascadian Dark Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (P): 14.7
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
> ...






Any input or comments are welcome, i have no idea what i'm doing or how to match a beer. I just used the style nazi on brewmate to help.

I'll order some of the buscuit and carafa11 from Ross this week if there's no feedback, i have the rest.


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## punkin (14/1/12)

mayor of mildura said:


> here it is on craftbrewer. It comes dehusked. Another dark malt that you may want to consider is Briess midnight wheat. I got some from grain and grape. Similar to the carafa it adds colour without adding the intense roasted flavour.




Thanks they list it as carafa and carafa special. Looks like the special is the dehusked one?


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## Mayor of Mildura (14/1/12)

punkin said:


> Thanks they list it as carafa and carafa special. Looks like the special is the dehusked one?


that's right. It adds colour without the harsh flavour. When you munch on a bit raw and you can tell the difference to a normal roasted malt.


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## punkin (14/1/12)

The chocolate malt i have is some JW chocolate porter that i got from MHB.

He said they don't make it anymore i think. It's got a lot less bitterness than the other dark malts i tried.

It may be this one i think...

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=844


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## Mayor of Mildura (14/1/12)

That looks like a cracking recipe Punkin. Even if it isn't an exact clone it will be a top beer. I've used choc chit a few times (before it was discontinued) and i reckon it'll work well in your recipe. I've changed to Fawcetts pale choc now. It is a fairly good substitute.


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## punkin (14/1/12)

mayor of mildura said:


> That looks like a cracking recipe Punkin. Even if it isn't an exact clone it will be a top beer. I've used choc chit a few times (before it was discontinued) and i reckon it'll work well in your recipe. I've changed to Fawcetts pale choc now. It is a fairly good substitute.



Thanks mate. It's Trumans recipe i just played around with it a bit.

Craftbrewer says the closest sub to the chit is choc pale so i tweaked it to stay inside the style nazi..



> *Black IPA1* (Cascadian Dark Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (P): 14.7
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
> ...


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## Rowy (14/1/12)

That looks like a cracker of a beer. Kooinda dark IPA is one of my top 5 favourite beers. This thred goes to my favourites and I will be brewing this in the next couple fo weeks. Thanks for putting this together Truman and Punkin. This type of thing is why I love the site!


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## Jace89 (14/1/12)

When you make this beer let us know how the bittering goes with NS. Ive used it maybe once for bitter and found it a little harsh, I'd go easy on the 60min addition.
I might have a crack at a Black IPA myself with NS but maybe use FWH instead of a 60 addition....thinking out loud.


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## punkin (14/1/12)

You're welcome for what my little bit is worth.

Just looked at the hops, my 88l batch has $30 worth of hops in it :blink: 



That's the kilo i got last week gone in two brews, Ross's summer ale and then this when i brew it :drinks:


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## Truman42 (14/1/12)

Keep us posted. I'm curious to see how your variation turns out. 
Mine was very nice, My best home brew yet. 
But as I said probably not as bitter or hoppy as Kooinda.


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## seemax (14/1/12)

You can add the carafa or similar late in the mash too if you just want the colour but less of the roastiness.

Choc chit is good....


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## punkin (18/1/12)

Found that it was a little exe to get a few kilos of the specialty grains in for that bill, so decided to tweak it to the grains i have here. <_< 

I still think it will work OK with the victory substituting for the biscuit, and the Midnight Wheat substituting for the carafa11.

A little darker, but hopefully no more astringent?

Any comment's welcome, i have 88l of Ross's Nelson Sauvign summer Ale in the fermenter atm, so won't be brewing this till the w'end after this one...



> *Black ipa2* (Cascadian Dark Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (P): 14.7
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
> ...


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## Rowy (23/1/12)

Put the original recipe Truman and Punkin put together down yesterday. Touch wood everything went well. Used Galaxy and Nth Brewer instead of NS as I love that shit at the moment. Anyway I'll tell you how it went.


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## punkin (23/1/12)

Cool.

I had a shocker black ipa the other day. i bought a bottle of Beastie Boys.

The operation Mongoose from the RDB is a million miles on that beer B) 


What a waste of seven bucks.

I had a knapstein that was real good though B)


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## sim (23/1/12)

...hmmm thats a shame. i really quite like the yeasty boys - pot kettle black.


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## chunckious (23/1/12)

sim said:


> ...hmmm thats a shame. i really quite like the yeasty boys - pot kettle black.



That shit kicks arse!!!


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## Jace89 (23/1/12)

punkin said:


> Cool.
> 
> I had a shocker black ipa the other day. i bought a bottle of Beastie Boys.



Didn't realise Beastie Boys made beer! 
The Yeastie boys black IPA isn't as good as the Kooinda! 
I only wish Mountain Goat would make another B-IPA, the Thorny Goat has gotta be my favorite B-IPA.


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## Truman42 (23/1/12)

Jace said:


> I only wish Mountain Goat would make another B-IPA, the Thorny Goat has gotta be my favorite B-IPA.



Their coffee IPA was bloody good to....But nothing beats Kooindas black IPA.


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## sim (23/1/12)

I totally rate both the kooinda and yeasty's, though i dont think i prefer one over the other. they are different and both absolutley top notch. I find the pot kettle like a hoppy irish stout or hoppy schwarzbier, where the full nelson is just big, dirty goodness. 

missed the Mt Goat offering unfortunatley, will be looking out for it.

...ohh man, my keg o black IPA just blew. sob sob


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## punkin (3/2/12)

How did you go with this rowy? Have you kegged it yet, or still in the fermenter?

Looking to brew on Sunday if work doesn't get in the way.

Any last minute advice from anyone? Says a balance value of 2.73 whatever that is (just about to search)

I thought i would mash at 65 to add some body, but that's about the extent of my brewing knowledge and therefore i'm listening to all advice....



> *Black ipa2* (Cascadian Dark Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.065 (P): 15.9
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (P): 2.8
> ...




I have some Nottingham yeast here too, but i kinda prefer the 05 in my ales?


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## Jace89 (3/2/12)

I'd mash higher then 65 if you want abit more body. 65 is usually what I'd mash at for light bodied APA or similar. I not saying it turn out crap at 65 in fact I'd say it'll be fine, but I'd look at going atleast 66+ for more body.


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## punkin (5/2/12)

Noted, just mashed in at 66.4C


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## Rowy (5/2/12)

punkin said:


> Noted, just mashed in at 66.4C




Sorry didn't see the post yesterday Punkin. I went ahead with it and its CCing at the moment. It tasted great out of the Fermenter. I changed the hops around a bit. What I can tell you is that malt bill smells great!


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## Jace89 (5/2/12)

punkin said:


> Noted, just mashed in at 66.4C



Nailed it!
I'm gonna make this recipe once I get around a couple of others I have planned. Cant wait to see/hear about your results

Rowy post a pic once that bad boys in a glass!


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## Rowy (5/2/12)

Jace said:


> Nailed it!
> I'm gonna make this recipe once I get around a couple of others I have planned. Cant wait to see/hear about your results
> 
> Rowy post a pic once that bad boys in a glass!



Consider it done!


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## punkin (6/2/12)

Brew tasted fantastic off the kettle. Brew day seemed to go fine and i hit all my targets except one and that was the OG.

Not sure what happened and i've never failed to get within a point of target before, but i got 1060-1061 instead of 1065?

I did lose some heat from my esky as the lid is warping a little and didn't seal, so starting at 66.4 C i had 63C after an hour. Probably should have used the hot stick to put some heat back into it half way (or fixed the esky).

Would that account for such a large efficiency drop?


The sparge was really free running, i''ve never seen a grain bed run off so quick on my system before. That was the only other difference i noticed.


Will probably make the missus happier having a 6.5% beer instead of a 7% one anyway, but will it affect the taste/body of the beer?


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## Truman42 (15/2/12)

Any of you guys tasted your brew yet out of the bottle? 

Keen to hear how the bitterness and hoppiness is compared to the original?

Ive saved some yeast from a Kooinda black IPA which Im goin to use when I do this bew. Anyone have an idea as to what type of yeast it might be?

Also whats the suggested size starter that I should start off with? Ive only got about 4 mm of yeast in a urine sample jar so will a 100ml starter do or is that too much?


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## punkin (15/2/12)

Mines gassing in the keg atm, may have a sneak tonight or tommorow. Tasting from the fermenter i think i'm getting bitterness from the choc that shouldn't be there. If that's still there from the tap (and i think it will be) i'll drop the choc and up the midnight wheat for my next brew.

I don't think you'll go wrong with us05.



Truman said:


> Any of you guys tasted your brew yet out of the bottle?
> 
> Keen to hear how the bitterness and hoppiness is compared to the original?
> 
> ...


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## Charst (15/2/12)

Jace said:


> Didn't realise Beastie Boys made beer!
> The Yeastie boys black IPA isn't as good as the Kooinda!
> I only wish Mountain Goat would make another B-IPA, the Thorny Goat has gotta be my favorite B-IPA.




Mountain Goat Throny Goat was the Boss. So much so its the one I tried to clone for the case swap. hope they make it again so i can compare.


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## chunckious (15/2/12)

Did you end up posting your recipe Charst?


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## WarmBeer (15/2/12)

Truman said:


> Any of you guys tasted your brew yet out of the bottle?
> 
> Keen to hear how the bitterness and hoppiness is compared to the original?
> 
> ...


I've only had it the once, so can't call myself an expert, but this is more a hop-driven than malt driven beer.

I imagine something neutral, US-05 or Wyeast 1272, should ferment then get the hell out of the way, so the hops/malt can shine.

I seriously doubt it's any proprietary yeast, given the scale of the brewery.

As for your sample jar (hope you gave it a good clean first  ) generally, you want to use steps of 10. So go from 10ml to 100ml to 1lt, etc. I'd just go for another sample jar's worth or wort, let the yeast ferment that out, then step up to 200-250ml, then up to 2lt.


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## raven19 (15/2/12)

Truman said:


> Also whats the suggested size starter that I should start off with? Ive only got about 4 mm of yeast in a urine sample jar so will a 100ml starter do or is that too much?



I would recommend stepping it up much more. 100ml starter then 1L starter (at least). MrMalty's calculator is your friend.


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## Charst (15/2/12)

Chunkious said:


> Did you end up posting your recipe Charst?



http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=56786

It had a Power of hop smell then flavour went missing in the middle followed by a nice choc as you swallow. bitterness was present but not firm. wouldn't change the IBU's.

all in all it came out pretty well but next time I do it ill up the Crystal and Start some additions earlier in the boil to get some more flavour hops in there. 

Mashed at 65 to memory but will mash a touch higher next time


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## punkin (17/2/12)

Sneak taste last night. It still has some carbing to do and it needs some time in the keg to settle and combine a little.



Atm it seems to jump out with the malts first and then hops some more of the malty sweetness and then another blast of hops. I think it will be good, very good.



The suprise factor is definately there, you are just expecting a different flavour when looking at the beer than what you get, sort of an illusionist trick. Not fully fooled though as the choc lends a grain whack that doesn't need to be there (although i like the flavour) and i will up the midnight as i expected next time to increase the illusion.



High hopes for this one in a fortnight and extra high hopes for the next tweak. :icon_cheers:


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## Rowy (17/2/12)

punkin said:


> Sneak taste last night. It still has some carbing to do and it needs some time in the keg to settle and combine a little.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just had a sneaky of mine out of the bottle. I agree with the comments on the choc punkin. It's not Kooinda but I think its going to be a bloody good beer. Mine definitely needs more time though.


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## sponge (17/2/12)

I have a fermenter full of a Black IPA using a very similar grain bill to the one mentioned previously, although used galaxy, citra and chinook for the hopping due to my excess of all three of these hops

Tastes reaaaal nice from the hydro tube and will only get better after its kegged and carbed for a month or so I recon.

Really looking forward to this one and love the little bit of nutty-ness that the midnight wheat provides

Real happy thats its not just a seasonal grain anymore (IIRC)



Sponge


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## punkin (22/2/12)

Started drinking this keg last night. It is sensational.

It's the first beer i've developed with the right balance and fitting in perfectly to a complete flavour. Sorta the difference i get tween smurtos golden and my own golden. The seamless flavour that the Dr's recipe creates is definately not matched by my similar recipe that seems to jumble.

I'm going to put this into the RDB as my first addition to the knowledge bank here and proud of it i am. :lol: 

I'll add a picture tommorow. B)


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## humulus (22/2/12)

Was really looking forward to this one............guess what a f--king infection so my first ever attempt at a Black IPA went down the dunny :angry:


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## chunckious (22/2/12)

Do you know what was the cause of infection Humulus?


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## humulus (22/2/12)

Chunkious said:


> Do you know what was the cause of infection Humulus?


Nah mate the krausen on top of the fermenter looked normal,when i checked the gravity and tasted the hydro sample it just wasnt right,so i let the gravity go stable and racked off and mate the smell was not good.Hard to describe just not right so i bit the bullet and down the dunny it went.
I could have had a slip up in my cleaning/sterilization dont know,the the old fermenter went into the bin and so did the cube.When i get a chance ill give this brew another go.
It was fermented at 18/22 max with us-05,i used frozen drink bottles to try keep the temp stable as my ferment fridge is at 10dg with a couple of pilsners in it...maybe the changes in temp caused it(bloody stupid weather here in Sydney)
Oh well its not the first but hopefully will be the last infection h34r:


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## Rowy (7/4/12)

Well just finished my last glass of this. The malt bill is perfect. I didn't dry hop enough I reckon. Will use NS next time as well.


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## punkin (8/4/12)

I'm on my last keg, will be brewing again shortly.

i'll post up the next recipe when i brew it, i've made some changes that i want to try, but can also heartily reccomend the recipe as brewed.

I even put it in the database


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## Rowy (8/4/12)

punkin said:


> I'm on my last keg, will be brewing again shortly.
> 
> i'll post up the next recipe when i brew it, i've made some changes that i want to try, but can also heartily reccomend the recipe as brewed.
> 
> I even put it in the database




What's its name on the database punkin?


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## Wolfman (8/4/12)

Keen to find out the recipe too!


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## chunckious (8/4/12)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1515


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## punkin (9/4/12)

Thanks guys, yes as the link say's i just called it Punkins Cascadian Dark Ale.


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## peaky (9/4/12)

Chunkious said:


> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1515



Nice looking recipe, and I have all the ingredients except for the hops and dark wheat. Might give this one a crack soon. Think I'll sub the us-05 with 1272 though since I have it on slant.


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## punkin (9/4/12)

Yes, i don't know much about yeasts and my palate is no where near refined enough to be able to say i can taste any difference. Use what you think appropriate as i have no idea.

Dry yeast is just too easy for me and i buy it by the brick.


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## peaky (9/4/12)

The dry yeasts are easier/less hassle but I find 1272 flocs better than us-05, and I guess I'm just used to dicking around making starters etc. Either way this recipe looks like a nice drop


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## breakbeer (12/5/13)

I'm keen to brew this for the Vic Case Swap, but can't access the Recipe DB. 

Punkin, I noticed you said you'd made changes to the recipe on Page 1 of this thread. Can you please let me know what they were?




*Black IPA1* (Cascadian Dark Ale)
  Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (�P): 14.7
 Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (�P): 2.6 
Alcohol (ABV): 6.52 % 
Colour (SRM): 31.3 
(EBC): 61.7
 Bitterness (IBU): 67.5 (Average)
  78% Pale Ale Malt 
5% Carafa II malt 
5% Wheat Malt
 4% Biscuit 
4% Chocolate, Pale 
4% Crystal 120
1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) 
1.4 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
 1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) 
2.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)   
Single step Infusion at 66.5C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
  Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


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## punkin (13/5/13)

This is the one i use. It's a regular, i will have to brew this week as i am out of most cubes including these, marathon coming up...


*Punkins Cascadian Black 1* (Cascadian Dark Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.066 (°P): 16.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol (ABV): 6.57 %
Colour (SRM): 34.5 (EBC): 67.9
Bitterness (IBU): 66.0 (Average)

81.23% Pale Ale Malt
5.05% Wheat Malt
3.91% Crystal 120
3.91% Victory
2.95% Chocolate
2.95% Wheat Malt, Midnight

1.9 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.8 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
2.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## breakbeer (13/5/13)

Thanks mate! I'll buy the grains I dont have this week & get it down on the weekend


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## punkin (13/5/13)

You are very welcome.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.


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## breakbeer (30/5/13)

Hi Punkin,

a couple more questions:

Do you do a d-rest & cold crash this beer & at what stage did you dry hop?


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## GalBrew (30/5/13)

breakbeer said:


> Hi Punkin,
> 
> a couple more questions:
> 
> Do you do a d-rest & cold crash this beer & at what stage did you dry hop?


Why would you d-rest an ale fermented at 20 deg?


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## breakbeer (30/5/13)

I'm guessing by your response that you wouldn't

Thanks for clearing that up!


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## GalBrew (30/5/13)

No need, you are already at d-rest temps for the whole ferment.


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## punkin (31/5/13)

Dry hop after 5 or 6 days for 5 days.


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## punkin (16/6/13)

Brewing this again this morning. I'd forgotten how much Nelson this recipe swallows up when doing a quad batch.  :chug:


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## chrisso81 (16/6/13)

I have the grain bill here ready to go as well and it will be the third time I've brewed this recipe. Great job Punkin, it's an excellent beer, so much Nelsony goodness!


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## punkin (16/6/13)

Thanks mate, just threw the first addition ion then, the shed smells righteous.


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## breakbeer (18/6/13)

punkin said:


> Brewing this again this morning. I'd forgotten how much Nelson this recipe swallows up when doing a quad batch.  :chug:


I brewed this a few weeks ago for the Vic Case Swap & it was the most hops I've ever used in a single batch.

I'm brewing it again right now but my digi scales just shat emself so I'm not sure how accurate I can be with my hop additions.


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## punkin (19/6/13)

Yep, 620 grams of flowers to go on my compost after this lot has fermented out.


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## slash22000 (3/7/13)

Could you share the water profile you use to brew this one? Not getting much help from Google on brewing black IPA's.


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## punkin (3/7/13)

No mate, i'm not advanced enough for water profiles. Just use tap water from our town supply, sorry.


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## jaymzica (3/7/13)

so i can use this recipe for a standard 23lt batch?


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## slash22000 (3/7/13)

You will just have to scale it down mate. Don't use the 80+ litre recipe for 23 litres unless you're trying to invent a new type of jet fuel.


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## jaymzica (3/7/13)

ahh crap i thought that was for a standard batch lol


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## punkin (4/7/13)

23 litres no chill scaled back by brewmate.


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## Mardoo (4/7/13)

I really have to try this beer again. So many people love it and your recipe looks awesome punkin. When I had it on tap at the GB during Good Beer Week I REALLY didn't like it. Two sips and I left the pot on the bar cuz it was dank in a foul way, to my tastebuds. Maybe this is one of those beers I'll like better in the bottle (Red Hill's Scotch Ale being another).


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## jaymzica (4/7/13)

I think its better on tap. but each to their own. Give it a go in bottles and see how u go. its a ripper beer. I usually go to kooinda on a fri night after work and have a few pots of it.


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## slash22000 (6/7/13)

punkin said:


> No mate, i'm not advanced enough for water profiles. Just use tap water from our town supply, sorry.


Just in case you're interested, I have been working on this for the last 3 days, and have invented a Black IPA water profile:

Calcium: 65
Magnesium: 15
Sodium: 30
Sulfate: 140
Chloride: 10
Carbonate: 165

High in sulfate to accentuate the hops, but also high in residual alkalinity (~80) to offset the dark grains in the mash. The lowest sodium possible while maintaining ion balance, to avoid malt flavours taking precedence. "Very bitter" sulfate to chloride ratio, perfect for a nice bitey IPA.

I'm hoping somebody with more knowledge than myself can comment that I am wrong, but from what I am able to discern, this is as close to a "perfect" black IPA profile as I can calculate with the tools I have available to me. The sulfate is much lower than I normally brew an IPA/pale ale, but as high as is reasonable to maintain residual alkalinity. Of course if you steep the dark grains separate to the mash you can just use a standard IPA profile, but I was aiming this one for all the poor bastards like myself on Google trying to find a dark mash IPA profile.


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## Truman42 (3/5/14)

I brewed and kegged this recipe about a week ago. Carbed up a bottle with my carb cap and tried it and it was crap. Very overpowering with the 3 grams a litre of Nelson. 
Anyway a week later I've tried what's in the keg and OMG it's freakin awesome.

Didn't quite get the IBU that I wanted which is an ongoing issue I'm having with my brews but certainly the dry hopping has given this beer a fantastic aroma.


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## IsonAd (19/8/14)

Pulling up an old thread but I was just curious punkin do you whirlpool your 0 min addition? 

I also notice you no chill, have you tried cube additions with this one?


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## BrewedCrudeandBitter (16/9/15)

FYI Kooinda released the recipe for their original Full Nelson Black IPA yesterday:

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/894845/diy-black-ipa

Mashed at 67-68 degrees also btw.


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