# Questions About Australia



## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country. 

For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)

I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?

What is your federal tax rate?

Is Rugby pretty much Austraila's version of baseball or what?

Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?

Is it awesome having Christmas in summer?

What has happened with the Australian aboriginee (I butchered that spelling I'm sure). Do they live on reservations like many Native American tribes do?

Do you guys watch American movies at the theater? Australian? Both?

What is the general perception of America and Americans in your country? What is YOUR perception?


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## dmac80 (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?



Indeed.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/5/11)

http://youtu.be/o1DRTnP0gY8


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## Lecterfan (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)



Don't worry, you won't need to get into the debate, others will do it for you.
Oh, it probably won't really be a debate either.


I will leave the specific responses for those who can offer a more knowledgeable perspective (or are willing to provide an opinion).

And before everyone rips me to shreds  I am not talking about the pragmatic reality of our circumstances, I am talking about the theoretical underpinnings - as with all things theoretical, when put into practice they can be manipulated, exploited etc.

The main thing I'd say - and this is only my opinion based on the mini thesis I am doing at the moment - that at the moment the main political differences (from a macroscopic philosophical perspective) stem from the fact that you guys have largely founded yourselves on the libertarian side of a libertarian democracy (just need to build yourselves The Statue of Responsibility to go next to the first big gal), whereas Australia is still technically part of the Commonwealth and thus our democratic principles tend to take precedence (in theory - this theory is increasingly in a state of tension due to our economic system).

In a nutshell our emphasis is on a supposed equality of access and equality of rights across the board rather than unimpeded personal rights, or the rights of the individual not to be overly regulated by their governing body. This leads to a larger emphasis on "universal rights whether you want them or not" such as access to a certain amount of free education, a certain amount of free healthcare and a certain amount of "free" welfare. This is in contrast to the libertarian notion that you can have "universals if you deserve/are able to access them" - such as unemployment benefits if you have accrued them, healthcare if you can afford it... While both theories presuppose a political equality of all members, the libertarian theory assumes that everyone is equally able to utilise their political equality effectively and can therefore exercise their own personal autonomy to lead the good life. However, democratic principles require that political equality must be assumed, but that a governing body - or a governing discourse at least - needs to effectively regulate that equality.

Both theories are completely valid; a paradox exists between them that often results in a productive tension, but can also be readily preyed upon by unethical bodies to futher enhance their self-interests (hiding behind the notion of political equality - oops is my bias showing?).

Still, non-ideal methodologies are the future, but that is for 15,000 words elsewhere.

Have Australia got it right? No. Have America? No. Will anyone ever? ...I wouldn't purport to address that question here.

Welcome to AHB!

Use the recipe database, it's awesome!!! I recommend Argon's Little Fellas Pale Ale, Markbastard's Amber Ale, and Tony's Bright Ale. There are many, many ubiquitous others but these have been outstanding performers for me.

Also, from listening to the Brewing Network and what they had to say about Coopers Sparkling Ale and Pale Ale in the bottle over there as compared to here - don't judge it until you've had it on tap here!

Beer! :icon_chickcheers:


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## roo_dr (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> What has happened with the Australian aboriginee (I butchered that spelling I'm sure). Do they live on reservations like many Native American tribes do?




I feel rather uneasy about your use of the word "butchered" in such close proximity to the word "Aborigine" (sp).


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## yum beer (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?
> 
> 
> Is it awesome having Christmas in summer?
> ...




Hey EMalmgren, yes our healthcare system is 'free', at least for the most part..eg..last year I went to hospital with chest pain, spent 3 days in my local hospital,( Im in a small town of 10,000 people), transfered to a larger regional hospital where I underwent further tests, then got flown to Sydney(500km---about 320miles) for a triple by-pass, 5 more days in hospital.......Did not cost me a cent.
From what I understand of the American health system I would probably be dead now because I couldnt afford the surgery.

Yes Xmas in summer is fantastic.....you cant play cricket in the snow.

and unforunately the general perception of Americans is that they are an ignorant bunch of fat bastards to eager to take everyone elses stuff..
but I know that all you Yankees arent like that......not all Aussies wear crocodile skin jackets and carry huge bowie knives around.

Anyway mate, all the best to ya' and good brewing. :icon_chickcheers:


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## Tim F (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> 1. I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?
> 
> 2. What is your federal tax rate?
> 
> ...


Let me have a crack 
1. Health care is pretty much free for anything you need. Public hospitals will give you emergency treatment for free - Drs can give free treatment but some charge too. Our Medicare system works by subsidising most treatments up to a certain 'normal' rate but doctors are free to charge more if they want, then you'd pay the difference. In practice some doctors just charge the exact amount that Medicare will subsidise so it's effectively free. You can get subsidised vision tests but have to pay for eyewear and generally you have to pay for dental (someone might correct me a bit on those as I only know what I've used myself).
2. The tax rate varies based on your income - so you might pay nothing on the first 6000 you earn, then 15% on the next 29000 you earn and then 30c on the next 30000 up to the maximum rate of 45% if you earn over 180k.

3. Aussie rules football is one of the biggest sports - there is rugby too and that is the bigger sport in a few states, everywhere else its AFL though.
4. Yes but here it's 'asshole'
5. Totally!
6. Bit complex to explain and its easy to get accused of being racist, some have land set aside, many are just a normal part of mainstream society, some seem to live a bit of a nomadic life in and around cities (in mine at least). There are a fair few problems with issues around indigenous health, lifespan etc compared to non indigenous australians.
7. Both with American movies tending to be far more popular and common
8. MY perception of the Americans I know, mostly online, is that they are very friendly but there's a lot more of a consumer culture than here. Consumer might not be quite the right term... Eg if I look up an american recipe it has all these packaged ingredients that we would never use. You seem to have much bigger sweet teeth than us  And there seems to be way more, and stronger religion than here which is a little strange to a non religious person. From what I see on the media which might be completely wrong there are some pretty out there churches and religious groups that would never really fly here. Keep in mind thats just my perceptions!


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

roo_dr said:


> I feel rather uneasy about your use of the word "butchered" in such close proximity to the word "Aborigine" (sp).




My apologies. I meant no offense.


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## np1962 (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country.
> 
> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)Most Aussies don't know the difference anyway :blink:
> 
> ...


No Comment :lol:

Cheers
Nige


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## DU99 (27/5/11)

there's two types of rugby..league and union,also most americian's i have worked with are very nice people


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country.
> 
> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)
> 
> ...


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## roo_dr (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> My apologies. I meant no offense.




None taken, it's an easy word to misspell. :icon_cheers:


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Interesting stuff.

Tim, I think you've hit the nail on the head (or came damn close) about religion here in America. Not too far south of me, tornadoes tore up a handful of towns on Sunday, and hundreds of people died. One of the more notorious churches here in the States, The Westboro Baptist Church, is planning on protesting at their funerals. They're deal is that "God is punishing America for allowing homosexuality (and other "deviant" behaviour). The good news is that this church is VERY small (a few dozen members) and that most of Americans think they need to pretty much disappear. However, our First Amendment prevents a whole lot of legal action being taken. These "Good Chrisitians" have also protested the funerals of our military deaths 

Spot on in regards to our "consumer-ism". It really is out of hand. Something that I've been working on for awhile and is a pleasent side effect of homebrewing.


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## pimpsqueak (27/5/11)

"Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also? I'm not sure what an asshat is. russell crowe is a kiwi not an aussie. "

Don't believe a word of it. If he were a Kiwi, he'd own the Warriors, not the bloody Rabbitohs.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

roo_dr said:


> None taken, it's an easy word to misspell. :icon_cheers:



LMAO.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/5/11)

DU99 said:


> there's two types of rugby..league and union


to add to this - 
Rugby League: bastards playing a gentleman's game, 
Rugby Union: gentlemen playing a bastard's game.


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## outbreak (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?



It is free, its just how long you want to wait for things! Waiting lists are massive, but if its an emergency you get taken care of.



EMalmgren said:


> What is your federal tax rate?



Our income tax rates are...

AUD$ 1 - 6,000 Nil
AUD$ 6,001 - 37,000 15c for each AUD$ 1 over 6,000
AUD$ 37,001 - 80,000 AUD$ 4,650 plus 30c for each AUD$ 1 over AUD$ 37,000
AUD$ 80,001 - 180,000 AUD$ 17,550 plus 37c for each AUD$ 1 over AUD$ 80,000
AUD$ 180,001 and over AUD$ 54,550 plus 45c for each AUD$ 1 over AUD$ 180,000



EMalmgren said:


> Is Rugby pretty much Austraila's version of baseball or what?



Cricket would be the closest to baseball. Australian Rules Football (AFL) would be the most popular games depending where you live... 



EMalmgren said:


> Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?



95% of the population does



EMalmgren said:


> Is it awesome having Christmas in summer?



Yes. Most people have seafood etc.. for lunch and a ready supply of beer.



EMalmgren said:


> What has happened with the Australian aboriginee (I butchered that spelling I'm sure). Do they live on reservations like many Native American tribes do?



[flamesuit]
We came in 1770 and took over their land. Lots of Aboriginal People were treated terribly, killed. They weren't allowed to vote, andwerent counted as people they came under the Flora and Fauna act. After years of being treated terribly they were given the vote and the right to drink alcohol which then introduced a whole host of more problems. At the moment there is a huge problem with Aboriginal alcohol abuse, domestic violence etc.... Aboriginial people living in the North West of Australia live in 3rd world conditions. Its quite a touchy subject and I will leave it at that, someone else will most likely comment on it.
[/flamesuit]



EMalmgren said:


> Do you guys watch American movies at the theater? Australian? Both?



Mostly American actually, but Australian film has had a few golden periods and I think we are going through another one at the moment. If you want a small insight into the Aboriginal People's life in modern Australian try and get a hold of a movie called "Mad Bastards".



EMalmgren said:


> What is the general perception of America and Americans in your country? What is YOUR perception?



I think a lot of people see americans as arrogant, but thats just an ill informed generalisation. My perception is that America is to consumeristic and that Australia is following suite. However, you guys make some great beers and some great films so who am I to judge!


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## joshuahardie (27/5/11)

Welcome to Australia, I hope you enjoy it here.
Get to know the value of mateship and the fine art of sarcasm, and you will be fine :icon_cheers: 


If you have a Medicare card general hospital is free. My son had to spend 70 days in hospital after he was born, the cost of which would of been tens of thousands of dollars if not more. When he was better, there was no bill, but a party from the nurses wishing us well.
I guess this is what our taxes fund.
America is referred to as the Land of Opportunity
We call ourselves the Lucky Country.

Think of cricket as Australia's version of Baseball. You may not understand the game, but do go to one to immerse yourself in the crowd. It can be a great experience 

American movies are far more prolific in cinema than Australian made films. But do watch 'The Castle' it is the soul of Australia and Australians wrapped into 90 minutes.

Russel Crowe is an idiot

It is always foolish to generalise people, so I answer this cautiously. I have met many Americans in my time and loved the majority of them. However I have met a few whom have beat the drum along the lines of 'Everything is bigger and better here, why would I want to see the world', and have had a 'I am right therefore you must be wrong' mentality about the world Safe to say i didn't click with those people

Also safe to say, that if you are asking these questions, you are in the former group of people and not the latter.

Hope you like our end of the world.
Josh


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## fawnroux (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country.
> 
> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)
> 
> ...


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

I could of sworn Russel Crowe was Australian. Learn something new every day I suppose.

What about Australias gun laws? (Yes, I'm aware that I'm probably fitting the American Stereotype by asking this)


BTW, Asshat = asshole, douchebag, someone who needs slapped...you get the idea.


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I could of sworn Russel Crowe was Australian. Learn something new every day I suppose.
> 
> What about Australias gun laws? (Yes, I'm aware that I'm probably fitting the American Stereotype by asking this)
> 
> ...


What is a gun?


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## np1962 (27/5/11)

> Also there are two types of rugby. The one that is awesome is Rubgy League. This other is rugby union that nobody really likes unless you are a stuck up private school toff.



Rugby Union is the Awesome game, League is the game of mercenaries.(sp). And we wouldn't let Russel Crowe own one of our teams :lol: 
Union World Cup= 100's of countries trying to qualify for a spot in the final 16.
League World Cup= Players from 3 or 4 countries pretending to be from somewhere else to make up 8 teams to see if Australia or NZ are world champs.


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Rugby Union is the Awesome game, League is the game of mercenaries.(sp). And we wouldn't let Russel Crowe own one of our teams :lol:
> Union World Cup= 100's of countries trying to qualify for a spot in the final 16.
> League World Cup= Players from 3 or 4 countries pretending to be from somewhere else to make up 8 teams to see if Australia or NZ are world champs.


 :lol: I was waiting for you to bite.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (27/5/11)

EMalgrem - mate welcome. 
When I was 21 I worked on a summercamp for kids in Seattle and then bought a grey primer ford van (it was seriously pimped man- red crush velvet with mirror love hearts) and travelled through your beautiful country.
A few highlights

Q. where are you from 
A. Australia 
Repsonse - Thats just of the coast of LA right???

Buying beer at supermarket
Q. do you have ID
A. yes its my Australian passport
small talk - crack a joke etc etc
Response when leaving - My, you speak very good english.

Any country where you can walk into a liqour store and buy a 1/2 gallon Jack Daniels then walk to the back of the same shop and pickup a Magnum 44 handgun .... mindblowing for us lot down here.

If it's not 110F at christmas - Its not christmas..... 
Cheers
BBB


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## Bribie G (27/5/11)

I'm currently being treated for a nasty eye inflammatory disease. I went to see my family doctor. This would normally cost around $50 but you get $32 back off Medicare. However because I am on a Social Security part Pension (being semi retired and other reasons) I don't get charged. They sent me to the local Hospital E.D. - free - who sent me to the Main State Hospital which fortunately is nearby. 




I was seen within a couple of hours by an Opthalmologist who has been following me up every Wednesday for the last two months so he knows me by name now - he's Dave - Free.
It's quite cheap to travel down there on public transport because being a part pensioner I get half price public transport on our reasonably good electric train and bus network. 

There are a lot of private hospitals as well, but you need to be in a health insurance plan, I believe that about 30% of Aussies are, but it mainly covers you for operations etc rather than just seeing a specialist - you don't get back everything and it can still be expensive because - as in the States - there is often a "gap" payment, for stuff like anaesthetists, CAT scans etc so you can still end up paying a lot. 

My partner is half aboriginal and I can speak with a bit of insight here. There are basically three main "cohorts" of Aborigines - A large number live in urban society and have a few Aboriginal traditions that they follow (for example in their family relationships - I'm always referred to as "uncle" by the young folk) - they generally work, often in good government jobs or just out there at our equivalent of WalMart etc. For example I went to a wedding a couple of years ago, about 300 people there and only half a dozen drinking and everyone turned up in nice cars.

Then there are the "traditional" people who do live in reserves which are referred to as Indigenous Communities, with varying levels of integration but sadly a lot of them - as I know American Indigenous peoples do - sink into a pretty wretched life with huge alcohol problems and high unemployment. There is currently an "outstation" movement where the young people in particular go to live out in their traditional lands in small "out stations" with elders who show them hunting skills and reacquaint them with traditional stories etc. 
Then there are peoples who have moved to the cities and live on welfare and get drunk in the street and hang around on skid row etc. Sadly this is often the only time that "mainstream" Aussies ever get to see an Aborigine in person. 


I'm quite puzzled by the United States. Like most people in the "West" I've grown up imagining that most American families are:



And this is the "party line" fed to us by the media, mainly through family sitcom shows. 

Now one of my interests apart from brewing is exploring and photographing historical neighbourhoods - some Australian City suburbs are now 200 years old and you can wander round some suburbs in Sydney and Melbourne and you are seeing the same sort of things as you would do taking a stroll in Philadelphia etc, so we are not all living in nice bungalows on quarter of an acre. Google Earth and Streetview has really opened up the USA to scrutiny and it amazes me that rather than the above photo, literally millions of Americans are living like:




Some places look so much like the streets I grew up in, in the North of England it's incredible. Makes me realise that we have long been fed a very sanitised version of the USA which is one of the reasons I want to buy a really good camera and go on a tour. For the craft beer as well. :icon_cheers:


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## Filby (27/5/11)

Gday EMalmgren

I remember you said you didnt know the metric system but you already use it and if you follow the engineering units (powers of 3) you cant go wrong. For example:

terra x1012
giga x109
mega x106
kilo x103
BASE UNIT
milli x10-3
micro x10-6
nano x10-9
pico x10-12

So there's 1000 millimeters in a meter, 1000 meters in a kilometer. 1000 millilitres in a litre and 1000 litres in a kilolitre. On that note, a litre of water is 1 kilogram (1000 milligrams/millilitres), a tonne is 1000 kilograms of water, 1000 litres of water and also 1 cubic meter (1m x 1m x 1m).

You already use the metric system in the US for your money, volts, amps, watts etc and even your military use metric for all measurements.

A very simple system to learn and I cant understand why the US is the only non-metric 1st world country left (the UK are going through metrification).


Oh and dont get me started on Fahrenheit..its based on the temperature of a horse's anus! 


Fil


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## Spork (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country.
> 
> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)
> 
> ...



Hi, nice to see you showing an interest. That busts one of the stereotypes many of us have about Americans.
I'll answer your questions the best I can, from my own perspective.

Health care: Emergency treatment is free, however if you have insurance you may get a few more choices, choice of hospital and surgeon for example. You may also receive "better" parts. For example, the little spiral thingies used in cardiac angioplasty. Medicare pays for the basic model, which works fine, but often doesn't last as long and IIRC has a slightly higher post surgery infection rate than the "deluxe" model that a patient with private insurance may get.
Dental is not free for many Australians, and those that do qualify for free dental may have a long wait to get work done.
A visit to the GP, depending on if their practice "bulk bills" or not might be free, or it could cost you $80+ up front, a fair portion of which you get refunded from the government. Pharmaceuticals are not generally free, but if you qualify you have an upper limit you have to spend on them each year, after which the ones on the PBS will be free. Also people who qualify (pensioners etc) only pay (IIRC) $5.40 per script, regardless of the actual price of the medication. Not all medications are on the PBS list however. 

Tax. As stated above, income tax is dependent on how much you earn, but there is another taxation scale above the 45%: If you earn a fuckload you can afford an accountant who will fix things so you pay practically no tax at all!

Rugby is probably more like your gridiron. Cricket (esp: 20-20 matches) would be closer to baseball. Rugby is more popular the further north you go. Down south AFL dominates the codes. 

Russel Crowe is a Kiwi, and an arsehole.

Having Christmas at any other time seems like a waste of time off!

We massacred many of our indigenous people and the survivors have had their culture bastardised. British colonialism at it's best... We have forced our culture, values and beliefs on them, then think they are stupid/useless/lazy when they don't tow the line. The Australian aborigines were here for 40k years, and hardly left a mark on the land. If left undisturbed they could probably have continued on indefinately. White man has been here just over 200 years, and has made so much "progress" that in another 200 there may be nothing left to do...

Americans still go to theaters? JK. We watch both on our screens.

As for our "General perceptions of Americans"... I guess there is still some dislike, perhaps jealousy, that I think probably started during WW2, when a common saying (regarding American servicemen) was "Over paid, over sexed, and over here". Most of us have seen lots of American TV. Probably not the best America has to offer, more like the entertainment industries version of "megaswill". It probably contributes to our doubts concerning the intelligence of the average American. Electing Ronald Regan to president and Arnie to governor didn't do the worlds perception of your smarts much good either... Of course, most of us on this forujm has internets, so we have most likley interacted with Americans online, and I think that helps to overcome some generalisations. Yes, there are dumb ones. Yes, there are loud and opinionated ones. Yes, there are nationalistic, warlike, racist ones. But the same goes for pretty much any nationality you want to name. There are some really nice, educated, intelligent ones too. Oh - and contrary to popular opinion, some of them (I'm looking at you Lagunitas, Bison Brewing, Avery Brewing co.) make some truly awesome beers!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (27/5/11)

roo_dr said:


> I feel rather uneasy about your use of the word "butchered" in such close proximity to the word "Aborigine" (sp).


Boy you are game even to mention that word. Appears you cant even mention the word these days without some sort of backlash.
GB


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## np1962 (27/5/11)

BribieG said:


> View attachment 45995
> 
> 
> Some places look so much like the streets I grew up in, in the North of England it's incredible. Makes me realise that we have long been fed a very sanitised version of the USA which is one of the reasons I want to buy a really good camera and go on a tour. For the craft beer as well. :icon_cheers:


Don't think you'll find streets that wide in the north of England though Bribie.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/5/11)

Spork said:


> The Australian aborigines were here for 40k years, and hardly left a mark on the land.


apart from eating all of the mega-fauna  I wanna ride a giant wombat!


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## brett mccluskey (27/5/11)

Filby said:


> Hey EMalmgren
> 
> I remember you said you didnt know the metric system but you already use it and if you follow the engineering units (powers of 3) you cant go wrong. For example:
> 
> ...


Americans will go metric ...inch by inch :lol:


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## scott_penno (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I could of sworn Russel Crowe was Australian. Learn something new every day I suppose.




Reminds me of the question - What do you call a successful Kiwi (New Zealander)?

Answer - Australian

Unless they prove to be unpopular in which case... they're a Kiwi...

sap.


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## jayse (27/5/11)

dental is not covered, vision can be government assistance if your on low income but you still pay something.

Rugdy is only really queensland and NSW and the major sport there, not a major national sport really, not even a sport if you ask me  

Aboriginees do live in camps in the outback, some even set up camp in city parklands, some live in houses and live well, many have a very poor unheathly enviroment ripe with violence, drug and child abuse and poor heatlh, but it would be racist and unfair to say they are all the same, they also recieve more goverment assistance and many do not have to meet the same job search or other requirements to continue recieving benefits.
You can't really sum up them in a paragraph though.

I often think of America, however wrong I may be, as corupt and backwards but generally the way of life and the people the same as ours.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

toper1 said:


> Americans will go metric ...inch by inch :lol:




Lmao.

We were briefly taught the metric system in school long ago. However, I hardly ever use it. The only time I can think of is when I'm using the socketwrench at work. It usually goes something along these lines:

"Hey bro, grab me a socket would ya? I gotta pull this damn bolt out of the stud. Looks like it is 3/8 or 1/2"

"I can only find the metric set"

"Why the hell is that still around? Lets try the 9mm. Ok, that didnt work, give me the 12. Nope. I know that other asshole took the standard! Where the hell is he!? Give me the f***ing pipe wrench instead, I'll make it work"


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

So what are the gun laws like there?

Can you legally own weapons for sporting/home defense purposes?

Here in the States we have to obtain a FOID (Firearm Owners ID) card, which is basically our state of residence saying that we arent drug addicts, felons, or otherwise just friggin crazy. We can then buy a firearm (with different restrictions in each state), after we wait for about 3 days for a last go around with a criminal background check. This is what happens in IL. I lived in Arizona for awhile, down there you dont need a FOID card. They look up your criminal weapon real quick, and hand you your weapon as long as you arent a convicted felon. In AZ you can even carry a handgun on your person to most places, except banks, places serving booze, or anywhere otherwise posted.


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> So what are the gun laws like there?
> 
> Can you legally own weapons for sporting/home defense purposes?
> 
> Here in the States we have to obtain a FOID (Firearm Owners ID) card, which is basically our state of residence saying that we arent drug addicts, felons, or otherwise just friggin crazy. We can then buy a firearm (with different restrictions in each state), after we wait for about 3 days for a last go around with a criminal background check. This is what happens in IL. I lived in Arizona for awhile, down there you dont need a FOID card. They look up your criminal weapon real quick, and hand you your weapon as long as you arent a convicted felon. In AZ you can even carry a handgun on your person to most places, except banks, places serving booze, or anywhere otherwise posted.


No guns here dude. Police/army have them. Some farmers can have them. Very restricted.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> No guns here dude. Police/army have them. Some farmers can have them. Very restricted.




Wow, that blows my mind. I really cant imagine that.


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## Supra-Jim (27/5/11)

When Russel Crowe does good (rarerly!), we refer to him as 'Australian Actor Russel Crowe'.

When Russel Crowe screws up (much more common), we refer to him as 'New Zealand born Actor Russel Crowe'

When he tries to sing, we don't say anything, we're too busy trying to rip our ears off!

Cheers SJ


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## fraser_john (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> What is your federal tax rate?



This would be a bad thing to pick as a comparison. Here in Australia we do not have city/county/state payroll taxes like you do in the USA (lived there 10 years). So when we look at a tax rate here of 45% most Americans wig out. But, add all the individual payroll taxes up in the USA and you'd come close. Then, our houses are not taxed on their value to pay for the local school district either. All of that comes out of our main Federal taxes, or the sales tax revenue (GST as it is called here).


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## fraser_john (27/5/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> No guns here dude. Police/army have them. Some farmers can have them. Very restricted.



Not true, nearly anyone can own them, you just need to have a safety certificate, almost the same kind required in the USA if you want to hunt in Colorado if you are a non resident, I had my Ohio certificate so I could hunt Elk near Boulder.

You also need to have a clean background and store them appropriately. To own a handgun, you need to be a member of a pistol club for x number of years. Not clear on these details as I have never owned a handgun.

I currently own three guns, 30-30 lever action winchester, 12 ga U/O Miroku and a basic air riffle for the rabbits.


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## argon (27/5/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Rugby Union is the Awesome game, League is the game of mercenaries.(sp). And we wouldn't let Russel Crowe own one of our teams :lol:
> Union World Cup= 100's of countries trying to qualify for a spot in the final 16.
> League World Cup= Players from 3 or 4 countries pretending to be from somewhere else to make up 8 teams to see if Australia or NZ are world champs.




To go further into this... there is "Rugby" and there is "Rugby League" Union refers to the governing body that administrates the game of Rugby within a given territory eg the Australian Rugby Union, The game itself is just Rugby.

Rugby is a derivative of Football (soccer). As legend goes, Rugby originated at the Rugby school located in the town of Rugby in the United Kingdom by a student (William Webb Ellis) when he decided to pick up the ball and run with it. Nice story but probably didn't really happen like that.
American Football is a derivative of Rugby and Football
Rugby League is a derivative of Rugby
Australian rules football has somewhat unknown origins, but was most likely derived from Football (one of the early influences in its development was to keep cricketers fit in the off-season)

edit: timeline is like this

Football - Rugby - American Football - Australian Rules Football - Rugby League


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Wow, that blows my mind. I really cant imagine that.


Other than a police officer I reckon i've only ever seen a gun in real life once. That would be a rifle on my uncles cattle property (ranch). I couldn't imagine being able to rock up to K-mart and buy a new glock 9 or whatever. That is weird.


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

argon said:


> To go further into this... there is "Rugby" and there is "Rugby League" Union refers to the governing body that administrates the game of Rugby within a given territory eg the Australian Rugby Union, The game itself is just Rugby.
> 
> Rugby is a derivative of Football (soccer). As legend goes, Rugby originated at the Rugby school located in the town of Rugby in the United Kingdom by a student (William Webb Ellis) when he decided to pick up the ball and run with it. Nice story but probably didn't really happen like that.
> American Football is a derivative of Rugby and Football
> ...


Interesting history lesson and that's all well and good but the fact remains that rugby league is awesome and nobody likes rugby union.


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## fraser_john (27/5/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> I couldn't imagine being able to rock up to K-mart and buy a new glock 9 or whatever. That is weird.



Not quite that simple, handguns require a 7 day (from memory) cool off period now by federal law, so though you might be able to go in and say I'll take that one, they then give you a yellow form you fill in, they call in and tell you to come back in a week.

Longarms are different again, you fill in a form, they call it in, you get the nod, you tootle off with your nice new long arm. Sweet.

For the black powder rifle I bought for muzzle loading season, there was not even a form! $175 and I was off hunting that evening.


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## Bribie G (27/5/11)

sappas said:


> Reminds me of the question - What do you call a successful Kiwi (New Zealander)?
> 
> Answer - Australian
> 
> ...



Russel Crowe's Mum lived just up the street from me in Redcliffe Queensland


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## cdbrown (27/5/11)

You generally can't own a gun for safety in your home, you can if you are part of a gun club or work on the land shooting feral animals. Need to have the guns locked up tight and the gun lockers do get inspected by police. A friend of mine has about 30 guns (mostly rifles in his house in the suburbs). My brother in law also has a license but leaves his gun at the shooting club or in the gun shop locker.

Thankfully we don't have a lot of gun crime, just more other weapon crime (knifes, bats).


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## Spork (27/5/11)

Didn't have handguns, but when I worked at k-mart as a kid (17) I was selling guns and ammo to people. 
Used to go rabbit shooting with granddad every time I visited him.
Used to chuck a 12 gauge and a rifle (usually just a .22) in the car every time we went camping with my mates. Often they didn't come out of the boot, but was nice to have the option of shooting a 'roo / wallaby for some fresh meat if we wanted it.
Dad had a .22 and birdshot in his wardrobe, for shooting rats in our 1st house.
Gun ownership is still possible, but not easy, esp. if you don't live on a property or do competitive shooting.
Fkn Port Arthur.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> Other than a police officer I reckon i've only ever seen a gun in real life once. That would be a rifle on my uncles cattle property (ranch). I couldn't imagine being able to rock up to K-mart and buy a new glock 9 or whatever. That is weird.



Guns, at least in my area, arent sold at KMart/Walmart or other large stores like that. I'm sure there are some large stores that do sell guns, but I've never seen em.

We have 2 stores in town that sell guns. One is a farm store that has a back counter with some weapons in it and a case full of rifles. The other store is a one man operation and he doesnt have a whole lot, though he can special order. However, he is an asshat so I refuse to walk in the store.

I currently own a 12 guage shotgun that my late father bought me as a youngster and have plans to acquire then customize an AR-15 and a .45 pistol. Great fun!


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## argon (27/5/11)

mayor of mildura said:


> Interesting history lesson and that's all well and good but the fact remains that rugby league is awesome and nobody likes rugby union.



Rugby.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?


Once you get away from the big cities they are very common. They are a pest sometimes.


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## argon (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Guns, at least in my area, arent sold at KMart/Walmart or other large stores like that. I'm sure there are some large stores that do sell guns, but I've never seen em.
> 
> We have 2 stores in town that sell guns. One is a farm store that has a back counter with some weapons in it and a case full of rifles. The other store is a one man operation and he doesnt have a whole lot, though he can special order. However, he is an asshat so I refuse to walk in the store.
> 
> I currently own a 12 guage shotgun that my late father bought me as a youngster and have plans to acquire then customize an AR-15 and a .45 pistol. Great fun!



My brother and his family live in Phoenix after moving from Denver a few years ago. Been there a few times. In Denver at least, at Walmart the rifles and shotguns are in the same aisle as the frisbees, fishing rods, golf clubs and other sporting equipment. So surreal. Didn't pay attention in Phoenix, but i'd suggest the guns would be in a similar if not more prominent location.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?


they're fkn everywhere here. I used to ride one to school as a lad. I still have it's tail feather somewhere..


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## joshuahardie (27/5/11)

Very common.

I live in a well populated area and see them all the time when I am out mountain biking, I am usually in bush but only a few kilometres away from residential housing

Seeing wallabies is even more common



However, it is not common to ride in their pouches down the main street, despite what the Simpson's would tell you


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

Liam_snorkel said:


> they're fkn everywhere here. I used to ride one to school as a lad. I still have it's tail feather somewhere..




Feathers? Those things must evolve damn quick


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## joshuahardie (27/5/11)

Liam_snorkel said:


> they're fkn everywhere here. I used to ride one to school as a lad. I still have it's tail feather somewhere..



+1
I approve of this post
:icon_cheers:


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## argon (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?



My sister in-law from the States came and visited us a few years back when we used to live in the hinterland about 10mins from the beach on the Gold Coast. As i was taking her bags out of the car in the middle of the day about a dozen kangaroos passed in front of us on the way into the house. Typically only ever see them a few time a year... timing was brilliant. 

At my parent's in laws in Beaudesert about an hour south-west from Brisbane. There's thousands of em. Gotta be careful when driving in the evenings around dusk as they tend to be active and jump across the roads and get hits by cars.


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## Pennywise (27/5/11)

It's not the roo's that are the problem, it's those bloody dropbears


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

So whats with the whole "Mate" thing? There something to that or what?


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

Pennywise said:


> It's not the roo's that are the problem, it's those bloody dropbears




Kangaroo terds I assume?


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## argon (27/5/11)

Pennywise said:


> It's not the roo's that are the problem, it's those bloody dropbears



oh jeeesus don't get me started on them feckin' things


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## Liam_snorkel (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Kangaroo terds I assume?


larger, angrier Koalas, which drop out of trees & eat foreign backpackers.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

Liam_snorkel said:


> larger, angrier Koalas, which drop out of trees & eat foreign backpackers.



Someone should do something about that. I can loan you a firearm.


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## Pennywise (27/5/11)

Think Koala with rabies and claws like a freakin' bear. Got a mean growl on em' to, it's usually the last thing any unsuspecting bushwalker hears before they drop out of the tree tops and start rampaging everywhere. They usually hunt in packs of 3 or more


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> So whats with the whole "Mate" thing? There something to that or what?


Mate is what you call someone who is your friend. Or somebody who is not your friend. Or what you call a complete stranger. Or somebody who you can't remember their name. depends on the context.


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## Bribie G (27/5/11)

mate = "buddy" as in can you spare a dime or "pal". 

last kangaroo I saw was on the end of my fork. Contrary to organisations such as PETA, kangaroo populations are now very high due to farming activities which have increased the amount of pasture and water available to them. Most Supermarkets now sell kangaroo meat (sausages, steak, fillet). I like the fillet - tastes a bit like venison.
Doesn't taste like chicken :lol: 





Compare the USA where you can now get Bison steaks etc.


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## joshuahardie (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> So whats with the whole "Mate" thing? There something to that or what?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateship

Mateship is an Australian cultural idiom that embodies equality, loyalty and friendship. 
There are two types of mateship, the inclusive and the exclusive; the inclusive is in relation to a shared situation (e.g., employment, sports, or hardship), whereas the exclusive type is toward a third party (e.g., a person that you have just met). 
Russel Ward, in The Australian Legend (1958), saw the concept as a central one to the Australian people. Mateship derives from mate, meaning friend, commonly used in Australia as an amicable form of address. Mateship can also be expressed in such qualities as loyalty to one's mates in preference to the law.


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

LOL @ PETA.

God Bless America


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

I wondered if it had a bigger deeper meaning than just "buddy/bro/friend".


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## brett mccluskey (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Wow, that blows my mind. I really cant imagine that.


Not quite correct,if you're a member of a registered hunting/target shooting club you can own an appropriate firearm.No full auto weapons at all.Basically only licensed hunters,target shooters,or farmers only .Oh,and the odd bank robber or two :lol: Opps,missed a few posts...


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## stux (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Wow, that blows my mind. I really cant imagine that.



A friend of mine just got a gun license. Had to join a target shooting club first. Now he can buy a rifle to use on a target range.


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## Asha05 (27/5/11)

New Zealanders are close enough to being aussies, that many of them here. And if they get famous we claim them.
I work on thepowerlines and 60% of our guys are kiwis. We have to have a license for a gun and its a bit of a process to get one. You must have a gunsafe bolted to the floor and ammo kept seperate from the gun also locked away. No semi or full automatic allowed. Illegal. 

In my opinion our gun laws are great, dont have to worry that everyone is carrying like in the states.


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## drfad (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?




Living in Canberra, the Australian Capital City, they are bloody everywhere to the extent that we have culls to thin the numbers. They make a big mess of the car when you run into them too.


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## Asha05 (27/5/11)

Its funny the mate thing, a few years back we had an american guy come out to play baseball with us at our club and he couldnt quite understand why we would hang shit on our mates...As in mucking around, if they did something bad on the field as in make an error or something we get stuck into him..ie your a knob or nice play homo...He just couldnt grasp the concept of it...we were just mates having fun and meant nothing of it. He wanted to know why we werent getting angry at each other for bagging each other.

He got it in the end.


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## bowie in space (27/5/11)

I believe we're the only nation in the world that eats it's own national emblem/coat of arms. I have eaten Kangaroo and probably won't do it again. Not unpleasant, there's just more tastier and readily available meat on the market. 

Wallabies are more commonly spotted in towns outside cities. Kangaroos are seen more commonly in the outback.

Rugby league is Australia's best football code. The team is known as the Kangaroos.

The Rugby (union) teams are the Wallabies.

Australian Rules is good too, but can't really fathom a sport that rewards teams for missing the target. The Australian team is called the ...um.....ahh....wotsit.....oh yeah, a bit like the All American Football team. The best players get selected but don't play anyone because it's uniquely Australian.

Test match cricket is the number one sport in my opinion. Many others find it boring. Two teams of eleven players are given five days and two innings each to win the match, which can sometimes end up in a draw. Fascinating stuff....no, really it is. I don't like T20 cricket, but it's a hit with the kids...and India. It's fast paced and colourful.

I don't have any family of friends who own a gun, but a lot of people go pig hunting with guns in the bush. It is just not commonplace to own a gun in Australia. Most people will tell you the same.

Average wage is about $60,000 per annum. You get about 80% of that after tax.

Overall, it is a young and free country becoming increasingly more culturally diverse. A great place to live and many vastly different areas to see all over the country.

Now, if we could just get the rest of the country to start drinking some real bloody beer.

Cheers, 

Bowie


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

"Australian Beer"...does it exist, and what is it?

I look forward to the response.

If anyone says Fosters I'm going to kill a kitten.


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## argon (27/5/11)

ahh... kitten joke... i think you're been here for a while.

Australian Beer = Coopers Pale Ale. One of the best examples of a uniquely Australian beer. While not the best beer in the world, or Australia, it has a unique quality inherent in it's use of Pride of Ringwood and Coopers own yeast. If you want to make a good version of this i suggest you give this recipe a go. The best Australian beer i've ever had

Yes Foster's is also Australian but you struggle to find it here. The most widely sold beer in Australia is VB - Victoria Bitter. I am not a fan. It is made by Carlton United, which is owned by Foster's Group.

Common beers here are light lagers and low carb varieties of the same.

At the average pub you typically only get a choice of about 4 or 5 taps. Depending on who the pub's parent company is you only get their selection of beers. For example a Carlton United Brewery (CUB) Pub will have on offer VB, Carlton MID, Carlton Draught, Pure Blonde, Pure Blonde Naked. All pretty much the same light lagers ranging from 5%ABV to 3.5%ABV.

For some decent (uniquely) Australian Beers have a search for the following (most probably not available in the US);
- Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
- Barons Lemon Myrtle Witbier 
- Coopers Pale Ale

While not uniquely Australian, these beers are quite popular craft brews (using that term loosely in some cases);
- Little Creatures Pale Ale 
- Alpha Pale Ale 
- Coopers Best Extra Stout


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## Mayor of Mildura (27/5/11)

Coopers sparkling would be closest to a "traditional" Australian ale. It's a pale beer. About 5 % abv. Not very hoppy bittering addition only. Most of the character of the beer comes from their yeast which is quite fruity banana/pear.


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## joshuahardie (27/5/11)

Only Australian beers / styles would be

Coopers Pale and Coopers Sparkling

Id also consider Australian beers with uniquely Australian ingredients
Like Bridgeroads Galaxy IPA


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## EMalmgren (27/5/11)

Looks like I've got some bottles to look for next time I go to the LHBS


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## fcmcg (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> "Australian Beer"...does it exist, and what is it?
> 
> I look forward to the response.
> 
> If anyone says Fosters I'm going to kill a kitten.


I believe when god was here last year for the ANHC ( That is Gordon Strong BJCP Grand master and he was at the Aust National Homebrew Conference ) , he was doing some research regarding an Australian style being included in the BJCP style guidlines. He did AFAIK , visit South Australia and drink plenty of Coopers for research.!
As already stated , coopers sparkling and pale ale...the Sparkling is like 5.4% alc and the pale is 4.8% and i do prefer the pale....
Most breweries in Australia are owned by foreign interests now , so alot of beers are domestically reproduced crap versions of stuff like Stella , Becks , Peroni...
Fosters ( or Carlton and united breweries..aka...CUB ) are still Australia's major beer producer and they continue to try and make VB our favourite beer . Once it was mine...when i was 18..but now i know a whole lot better...
CUB also produce Melbourne Bitter ( which isn't a bitter in BJCP terms ) Carlton Cold ( triple filtered lager rubbish) Carlton Draught ( A slighly more bitter lager ) amongst other non descript and non mentionable beers....
Most large brewery beers made in Australia are lagers...apparently because it's what we love in Australia...but then beer sales are declining ( as they are in America ) and the smaller craft brewers are taking a niche spot...so it goes to show that maybe we don't love them as much as they think we do...
Unfortunately though , the tax a beer producer pays is quite high( excise tax) and with beer , must be paid before the beer is sold ( unlike wine producers who get favourable concessions from the tax department)
Australia has just started the tip of the iceberg in the whole micro brewery scene and i'm lead to believe what we have happening now is like what happened in America about 10 years ago...only problem is our beer is very expensive...
Anyway...Australian beer does exist...in temrs of style...Fosters has none and please leave our kittens alone or we will send Russell Crowe over there to live...
Ferg


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## fcmcg (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?


My wifes folks have a property about one away from Melbourne ( major town ). At dusk , the roos will come out looking for food...you can be eating dinner and watch them hop around outside...it's kinds cool...My mate lives up the bush , he drops one every 3 months...he keeps the good meat for aeting and the rest he cuts up for pet food...
Once , when i was a young lad , i was in a greyhound bus that hit a roo at 100kmh at 3.30 in the morning....
Roo didn't survive, ,the bull bar got a massive dent in it ( and it broke a spot light ) and we all got woken up by this massive noise....
There was dead roo everywhere...and i mean everywhere....
Poor Skipppy ( Skippy was a TV show in the 60's about a family and their pet kangaroo , Skippy )


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## pcmfisher (27/5/11)

Most Australians have never seen a hand gun apart from what the cops now wear, and they havn't really been wearing them exposed for long. 

Autos and semi autos including pump guns were banned some years ago with thousands being put through the chomper (apparently) via a government buy back. 

Nobody in the general public owns a gun for personal or property protection (officially speaking that is).

Get caught walking down the street with a concealed hand gun and you don't see daylight for a while.

What do us Australians think of Americans?
Maybe you should have asked us before they aired Oprah's last couple of shows.


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## Tim F (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?


yeah i live about 30 minutes from the center of my states capital and i can see a wild kangaroo any time i want... Also koalas, possums etc. There's a lot of national parks and state forests most parts of Aus and still plenty of wildlife.
Couple of questions for you - how much is milk in america? Petrol? Malt?


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## felten (27/5/11)

We live 15km out from the CBD and have seen roos on the morning walk just a few K's away, which is still in the middle of the 'burbs.



EMalmgren said:


> So what are the gun laws like there?
> 
> Can you legally own weapons for sporting/home defense purposes?
> 
> Here in the States we have to obtain a FOID (Firearm Owners ID) card, which is basically our state of residence saying that we arent drug addicts, felons, or otherwise just friggin crazy. We can then buy a firearm (with different restrictions in each state), after we wait for about 3 days for a last go around with a criminal background check. This is what happens in IL. I lived in Arizona for awhile, down there you dont need a FOID card. They look up your criminal weapon real quick, and hand you your weapon as long as you arent a convicted felon. In AZ you can even carry a handgun on your person to most places, except banks, places serving booze, or anywhere otherwise posted.


Most of my friends are yanks, one of my mates recently bought an AR15 from parts purchased entirely over the internet. He's a young bloke with a wife and baby and it really blew me away to see him putting this thing together over facebook, and then pics of it in his living room all setup with his kid sitting next to it.

To him though it's just a hobby like brewing is to me, he takes it to the local shooting range and has fun shooting shit I guess.


The only time I've ever held a gun was at the local army barracks, and that was a steyr that had the firing parts removed and replaced with a laser system, for training purposes infront of a massive projector screen like a computer game.


----------



## HoppingMad (27/5/11)

> Your healthcare system. Is everything really free?


Nope, you pay for some things or a subsidised amount but you can see a doctor here for free. They need to have a sign on the door that says 'Bulk Billing' though. If the sign isn't out - you pay through the nose!


> What is your federal tax rate?


Depends but if you earn a lot, you get taxed a lot. It's a scaled system, but one of the most complex in the world. Due to what you can and can't deduct from your income tax mostly. It varies right down to your profession. It gets so confusing most get professionals to do their tax to get a maximum refund/deduction. Accountants do very well once a year here.


> Is Rugby pretty much Austraila's version of baseball or what?


Cricket as mentioned is our baseball - just 2 bases though at each end of the pitch  not four like your game. 


> Anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?


We love him as an Aussie win he wins an academy award and does a good film. We disown him as a dumb kiwi when he recites a poem at a media gathering, plays in a band or gets in a fist fight. We do this with most kiwis - like Crowded House (band), actor Sam Neill and others. We pretend they're aussie when it suits us.


> Is it awesome having Christmas in summer?


Hell yeah. Particularly if your relatives have a swimming pool. Singing 'Dashing through the snow...' in hot weather does get odd though.


> What has happened with the Australian aborigine. Do they live on reservations like many Native Americans?


Some do, some don't. Just like Native Americans. 


> You guys watch American movies at the theater? Australian? Both?


Both but many Australian films are terrible. We make some classics that do well, but film funding in this country is skewed towards films that showcase the landscape, have a social conscience and are generally too 'real' for many average australians. We like US movies as they let us escape reality.


> Perception of America and Americans in your country?


I think they're awesome, but like any country you get some very annoying people. A lot of dislike of Americans stems from politics, not so much people. When you go there they're some of the most courteous and warm people you'll ever meet.


> The gun question


Getting a firearm is difficult here and you need to show just cause (hunting, club member, farmer, security) not self defence. Self defence shooting in this country is outlawed unless there is a clear armed threat and you have instructed that person to stop or you're going to shoot them. A person in Geelong Vic went to jail for 6 years for shooting a burglar through the spine claiming self defence and lost. He shot them without warning in his kitchen. The argument was that the burglar was there for goods and wasn't armed with anything more than pry tools so it was deemed 'excessive force'. 


> Kangaroos


In major cities you see them at a wildlife reserve. Some outersuburbs close to bushland - you do get them on the street. In victoria we have a golf course at a place called Anglesea and people play golf around them. There's also a place called Merimbula in New South Wales where this happens.

Hopper.


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## Golani51 (27/5/11)

First of all- BUGGER BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM!
Secondly- Welcome!

You may want to splurge on Private health insurance. We have a habit of beating up Americans for no legal reason.....or just say you are Canadian and you'll likely be fine. The healthcare system is fine as long as you don't need anything serious done. You would actually start sounding like a Canadian before you would get a non- critical operation done.
Tax here sucks compared to the US, but luckily we habe the GST now or we would end up paying just as much.
Christmas in summer is great- Santa's little helpers are usually blonde and wear short santa helper skirts.
Aboriginals are around but they do not homebrew (I haven't met one yet so please feel free to correct me). 
We do have American films here on the odd occassion when they slip thorugh the sensors or on the black market, but they are usually starring Aussies so it is like watching an Australian film. Paul Mercurio (star of Strictly Ballroom) is a home brewer and reps for Coopers, so we like him. Russell Crowe is a sheep- shagger and doesn't brew. Not sure if we like him.
Perception of Americans? Buy me a beer and we'll see if it can be swayed from 'hop- headed loud nobs' to 'acceptable as long as they are buying us grog'.


Again- WELCOME

Reuven



EMalmgren said:


> Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country.
> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)
> I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?
> 
> ...


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## Amber Fluid (27/5/11)

Hi and welcome to the forum... here is something that might puzzle/interest you and sadly I must admitt, I can relate to almost all these......





*Australian Citizenship Test . *
*1. *Do you understand the meaning, but are unable to explain the origin of, the term died in the arse? '



__________________________________ 
*2. *What is a bloody little beauty?
___________________________________ 
*3. *Are these terms related: chuck a sickie; chuck a spaz; chuck a U-ey?
___________________________________ 
*4. *Explain the following passage: In the arvo last Chrissy the relos rocked up for a Barbie, some bevvies and a few snags. After a bit of a Bex and a lie down we opened the pressies, scoffed all the chockies, bickies and lollies. Then we drained a few tinnies and Mum did her block after Dad and Steve had a Barney and a bit of biffo.
__________________________________ * 

5. *Macca, Chooka and Wanger are driving to Surfers in their Torana. If they are travelling at 100 km/h while listening to Barnsey, Farnsey and Acca Dacca, how many slabs will each person on average consume between flashing a brown eye and having a slash?
___________________________ 
*6. *Complete the following sentences:
A) If the vans rockin dont bother ?
B) Youre going home in the back of a ?
C) Fair crack of the ? 
_________________________________ 
*7. *Ive had a gutful and I cant be fagged. Discuss
__________________________________ 
*8. *Have you ever been on the giving or receiving end of a wedgie?
__________________________________ 
*9. *Do you have a friend or relative who has a car in their front yard up on blocks? Is his name Bruce and does he have a wife called Cheryl?
__________________________________ 
10. Does your family regularly eat a dish involving = mincemeat, cabbage, curry powder and a packet of chicken noodle soup called = either chow mein, chop suey or Kai see Ming?
__________________________________ 
11. What are the ingredients in a rissole?
__________________________________ 
12. Demonstrate the correct procedure for eating a Tim Tam.
__________________________________ 
13. Do you have an Aunty Irene who smokes 30 cigarettes a day and sounds like a bloke?
__________________________________ 
14. In any two-hour period have you ever eaten three-bean salad, a chop and two serves of pav washed down with someone elses beer that has been flogged from a bath full of ice?
__________________________________ 
15. When you go to a bring- your-own-meat Barbie can you eat other peoples meat or are you only allowed to eat your own?
__________________________________ 
16. What purple root vegetable beginning with the letter b is required by law to be included in a hamburger with the lot?
__________________________________ 
17. Do you own or have you ever owned a lawn mower, a = pair of thongs, an Esky or Ugg boots?
__________________________________ 

Does your family regularly eat a dish involving mincemeat, cabbage, curry powder and a packet of chicken noodle soup called either chow mein, chop suey or Kai see Ming?
__________________________________ 
18. Is it possible to prang a car while doing circle work?
__________________________________ 
19. Who would you like to crack on to?
__________________________________ 
20. Who is the most Australian: Kevin Bloody Wilson, John True Blue Williamson, Kylie Minogue or Warnie?
__________________________________ 
21. Is there someone you are only mates with because they own a trailer or have a pool?
_________________________________ 
22. What does sinkin piss at a mates joint and getten para mean?

If you understood all the above You have passes the Aussie Test.


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## shadders (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Someone should do something about that. I can loan you a firearm.



That'll land you in a pile of shit. Illegal to shoot dropbears, koalas, possums... and just about anything poisonous. You find a deadly taipan under your house you leave it there, that's the rules.

I lived on a property infested with the things once. Learned to deal with it eventually.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/5/11)

Aussie fun fact: on average, Australians can recite more of the lyrics to Working Class Man than the national anthem.


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## shadders (27/5/11)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Aussie fun fact: on average, Australians can recite more of the lyrics to Working Class Man than the national anthem.



A little piece of me just died.


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## ekul (27/5/11)

If you manage to get a botle of coopers pale ale you'll be able to reculture the yeast and make your own. The coopers range aren't the only examples of 'australian' beers, but the yeast is probably the only example of a uniquely australian yeast that i can think of.

The best coopers pale ale recipe but you really need the coopers yeast for it to work.




EMalmgren said:


> Looks like I've got some bottles to look for next time I go to the LHBS


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## shadders (27/5/11)

Actually there's a good movie you should watch about an American's experience getting used to Australian culture. It's called 'Welcome to Woop Woop'. Pretty much spot on how it's gonna be.


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## amiddler (27/5/11)

Got to get a response from EMalmgren to Amber Fluid's post #88. I have read it before but still chuckle whilst reading it.

Welcome to Australia, Enjoy a beer or 2, hands off our women!

Just jokin' chuck another snag on the BBQ, she's good doogs, mate!

Drew


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## tipsy (27/5/11)

Tim F said:


> 4. Yes but here it's 'asshole'



I'd say arsehole



BribieG said:


> I'm currently being treated for a nasty eye inflammatory disease. I went to see my family doctor.



That's gold :lol:


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## jasonharley (27/5/11)

I served with Americans in Iraq ..... a good bunch of guys .... you'll get on well over here !!!!


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## TonyC (27/5/11)

In regards to the firearms, i have shot both pistol and clays competavily for thirty years, and feel i can comment. When a mentally unstable person kills thirty plus people in a couple of hours, goverments feel the need to respond. All semi auto weapons are banned, and are collected and destoyed to keep the masses happy.Has it stopped the drug related, gang related and the unstable from killing others, no. In hind sight, the BAR, AR 15, Garand and shotgun i lost did not stop me from enjoying my sport and hobby. I still shoot all the time, although not as regularly as before, and have my firearms secured in a double door, one tonne commercial safe. I keep my freezer full of duck, quail, deer, and goat, and only shoot what i eat, with the exeption of pigs that are vermin here. I have been to the states twice for work, and speak to Americans weekly, as an employee of H.D and have found you all to be very sincere. i hope you enjoy your time here on AHB and look forward to your posts.

Regards Tony


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## Greg Lawrence (27/5/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Rugby Union is the Awesome game, League is the game of mercenaries.(sp). And we wouldn't let Russel Crowe own one of our teams :lol:
> Union World Cup= 100's of countries trying to qualify for a spot in the final 16.
> League World Cup= Players from 3 or 4 countries pretending to be from somewhere else to make up 8 teams to see if Australia or NZ are world champs.



Union is clearly a superior game to league, but there seem to be a lot more league supporters here.
This is not too surprising, as the average Aussie doesnt understand Union, and Australia are not too flash at playing it.
Just like Russell Crow, they turned their back on Rugby when they worked out that they were crap at the game.

AFL can be compared with NFL. If it was a half decent game, surely there would be more countries playing it.


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## Screwtop (27/5/11)

Kangaroo, I shot them and sold the skins for years as a second/third job when in my 20's. Couldn't do it again, too easy, crosshair between the eyes in a spotlight. As for eating them, we used to throw them on the fire and get American tourists to try/eat it, no way full of worms!

Screwy


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## pdilley (27/5/11)

I cracked off a few rounds last week from a 44 Magnum Rifle (pig gun, honest ) and from what you would probably know as the U.S. Army's M24 Sniper Weapon System or the U.S. Marine Corps' M40 sniper rifles.

Most police are still carrying service revolvers of very very vintage stock and are only recently being trained and equipped with that new fangled semi-automatic pistol.

While guns are not easy nor inexpensive over here to come by they still can be had if you have a need and trust me the society feels a lot more safe and free even if it seems counter-intuitive from your beliefs on gun ownership and perceived need for protection over there.

Just check out the customs process, over there you have everyone bandying about with firearms treating customs like a police state action, very paranoid. Very relaxed over here and in NZ... could be worse like with the Chinese/HK loving to run around with fully automatic rifles in the airports. The whole north side of the planet seems paranoid and stressed out. The quicker we can cut the planet in half and jettison you lot of northern buggars up there the better 

Still a lot of ignorant Aussies as well with comments about aboriginal history not damaging the land. There are still remnant rain forest pockets in the centre where they did not burn off and destroy the eco system that existed before man came onto the land. But Americans are just as ignorant about their destruction of the whole eastern half of Texas with massive sand dunes blowing across the land in a new forming desert. All the worlds deserts are man made, worst invasive species on the planet that man!

But this is a brewing forum so its all irrelevant, you should just make beer and get on with it and come for a visit some time for yourself. You'll probably find a lot of yanks down here, a lot have left the USA so it can not be that bad here if they give up all those so called freedoms to live a life feeling ironically a bit more free 

Not even going to comment on Rugby, its AFL through and through here.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pbrosnan (27/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Since I'm new around here and, of course, American...I thought that I would ask a few questions to become acquainted with your country.
> 
> For the record, I'm not really interested in political debate. Discussion is one thing, but this is a brewing forum so I wont get into a left v. right debate with anyone (this typically happens on "American" forums BTW)
> 
> ...


Oh yeah.

If you walked into emergency then you would be treated without incurring any cost or being required to be a member of a health fund. Dental can be free but you can also pay for private. Same goes for vision.

Only the federal govt. can levy an income tax. It's a progressive scale depending on income. I'd say the average is around 25%. There are other taxes to do with consumption, purchase of land etc. levied at the state level (Australia is a federation of states similar to the US).

Rugby and baseball? No, perhaps rugby and US football for similarity. Australian Rules Football is by far the most popular spectator sport. It's a winter sport, the dominant summer sport is Cricket.

Christmas at summer is great but you need to adjust the menu, not so much stodgy stuff otherwise you sink in the swimming pool.

Your reference to butchering and the Aborigines is co-incidental but nonetheless accurate. Much the same experience as the Native American's but with less respect.

Us movies and TV are dominant. Cheap and cheerful.

"What is the general perception of America and Americans in your country? What is YOUR perception?"

Now you're making it difficult. I've been to the US once, a couple of years ago mainly New York and found it stunning. I think that Cormac McCarthy, Hunter Thompson and Jimi Hendrix are as important to the canon as Shakespeare and DH Larwence. I think Nixon was the most fascinating political figure of the 20th century and that Kubrick is the greatest exponent of the medium. But I don't agree with your foreign policy and your obsession with guns is just lunacy. 

And you craft brewed beer and second to none (and reasonably priced).

Anyway, what about us? What do you reckon, and none of this "you Ossies are great" crap.


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## ged (27/5/11)

Not sure if you're just interested in Australia, or actually living here? 

A Medicare card will get you inpatient hospital care totally free, whether that's getting a gash stitched up in an ER, a drug eluting stent or defibrillator (contrary to a previous post, public patients get the Rolls Royce models) months of chemotherapy for any cancer, a kidney or liver transplant or a premmie baby months of care in a NICU. You will wait months or years if you want a hip replacement, prostate bore-out or cataract surgery. If you're fat and want lap banding, go on a friggin diet.

Seeing doctors out of the hospital system will cost you, maybe $20-200 out of pocket depending on whether it's a basic primary care consult or a specialist. Market forces dictate some radiology and pathology services are free, others out of pocket depending on the local competition. Drugs are subsidised - cost about $30 for a script, a bit more than what I paid in the US.

30% "buy" private health insurance out of their own pocket. It doesn't come with your job like in US. It costs about $5000 pa for a family. I think my contribution when I worked in US was about $3000, and my employer contributed $30 000 to my private health bill!

Our income tax rates are relatively high, especially at the top end. As some people point out, we don't have all the state and local income taxes that you guys do, so it actually doesn't work out THAT much higher. But as a country we are far too reliant on personal income tax for govt revenue, this balance has been changing but we need a broader tax base (corporates, consumption) to take the burden off the general wage earner, including high income wage earners who don't have clever accountants, but just choose to work hard.

Cricket = baseball. Rugby (union and league) = NFL in terms of physicality. AFL = NFL in terms of only being played in one country. Union = private school, and is a bit more complex tactically like NFL. League = public school, and is a bit "simpler" (sorry).

Don't really care about Russell Crowe, other than to say he is a pretty kickarse actor, he's good at his job so good on him as far as I'm concerned.

Summer Christmas is great. I did enjoy my two white Christmases in US too. A strange combination of beer, cold seafood and salad, and more traditional British hot dishes (turkey, roast pork, ham) a bit like Thanksgiving. 

Indigenous Australians have been very hard done by, they are very disadvantaged, some of this is self inflicted but most of it is white man's fault (and I am a right winger). Their health standards are disgraceful. Both left and right wing governements are to blame. They own big ******* mines, national parks and environmental resorts, not trashy casinos. Except in Queensland where the left wing government did the dirty on the indigenous people in Nth Qld for a grubby little voting deal with elite latte sipping communist greens in inner city Brisbane, but that's another story.

US entertainment dominates Australian TVs and cinemas. It is not an exaggeration to say the US have achieved more with their entertainment industry than their military every will, in influencing the world.

I lived in America for 2 years while doing fellowships. Boston and NY. Travelled to Texas, Nawlins, Vegas, San Fran, LA and New England. It is a wonderfully diverse and incredible country. Our Prime Minister John Howard had a saying "the things that unite us are greater than the things that divide us" in reference to divides within our country. I believe Barack Obama says something similar. The same could be said for our two countries. Living there I noticed more similarities than difference. People love their families and close friends. They love their country. They love holidays, social activities, hobbies, etc. They want the best for their kids, and probably don't look after their elderly generation as well as oither cultures. The vast majority of humans are courteous, responsible and civil minded. I have extremely fond memories of America and Americans. I think they are misunderstood, just as the French, the British, the Israelis, the Palestinians...

The differences? Americans work VERY hard, too hard in my opinion, but I really respect them for that. Work tends to dominate their lives more than in Aus. They are probably more ambitious. Depending on which way you look at it, we're either lazier, or have a better worl life balance (although by all reports Australia is still a hard working people comapred to Europe).
America, despite being very libertarian, also has a strong authority structure. Even the bitch in the ticket booth at a train station is the ticket nazi, that's her little space and you have to do it her way. Australians have this rebellious anti-authority trait which comes from most of us being convicts and rebelling against the British authority structure. We don't even respect our Prime Minister, whereas your President seems to be revered / respected even if their policies are unpopular.
Religion. I'm Catholic, I go to mass at Christmas, Easter and I'm trying to go more often on normal Sundays. I try to be a good person. But it doesn't dominate my life or identity. Religion really is big in the States. Are you Jewish, are you Evangelical, are you Mormon? It seems more tied up with a person's identity, and it comes thru into politics, which I don't like.
Politics - deep down we're both quite conservative countries, but certainly US is far more to the Right. Issues like abortion, gun control, etc just don't rate a mention here. Taxes, health care, education, etc are more relevant issues. I myself am a Conservative voter, but would not vote Republican in the US as I think they're too obsessed with fringe issues, rather than running a decent economy, keeping spending down while still providing good services, etc

We have strong gun control here. Automatic weapons were banned by a conservative government after a massacre in Tasmania - I believe it is still the worst massacre in the world, sadly. As stated you can get guns for other reasons but they are strict. More to the point, it just isn't in the culture. Obviously, criminals have ways of getting these things, so there is still some gun crime. 

Basically, the more exposure one has had to different humans, cultures, countries and goverments, the more one realises - I'm not perfect, my culture's not perfect, my country's not perfect and my government's definitely not ******* perfect. If you are actually living in Australia, I'm sure you'll find plenty wrong with our country, little things that annoy you and big things that aanoy you. Arseholes, rude people, bad drivers, the occasional bad customer service operator, weird food that you're not used too... the same happened to us in the US. I hope, overall, you like our country.

Welcome.

Ged


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## yum beer (27/5/11)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Aussie fun fact: on average, Australians can recite more of the lyrics to Working Class Man than the national anthem.




Oh **** me, I thought Working Class Man *WAS *the national anthem


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## AussieJosh (27/5/11)

Some Australian football highlights 



IM not much in to AFL My fav sport is MMA (mixed martial arts) I have been to both of the UFC events that have come to Australia. (UFC is based in las vegas)

I have seen most of Europe and Asia. I am very much looking forward to checking out Canada, USA, and south America with in the next 5 years.


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## Tony (27/5/11)

Ok my take 

I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?

My step son needs full spinal fusion surgery for severe scoliosis which is worth $50000. The system grands one free case a month and we were lucky enough to get one 
I would have had to sell the house otherwise!

What is your federal tax rate?

Too bloody much no mate what you pay 

Is Rugby pretty much Austraila's version of baseball or what?

I would say cricket is Australias baseball

Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?

Have you seen his movie Romper Stomper... its is good 

Is it awesome having Christmas in summer?

Hell yeah....... sitting by the pool drinking home brew, swatting flies, sweating at the BBQ cooking lunch! Awsome!

What has happened with the Australian aboriginee (I butchered that spelling I'm sure). Do they live on reservations like many Native American tribes do?

I read a lot of comments in the first couple pages saying "most live in suburbia" I spent 15 years living in NSW outback towns and if you have ever driven into a mission (aborigional comunity housing camps on the outskirts of town)...... you wouldnt call it suburbia!
Some one said thay hadnt been treated any better than the native americans and i agree!
I have known, drank with and worked with a lot of wonderful Aborigional people over the years but unfortunatly there are still a lot of problems... on both sides of the fence.

Do you guys watch American movies at the theater? Australian? Both?

I prefer to watch Australian and other forein films over american usually. Amrican films... especially comedy seems to be way to in your face and needing to explain itsself to make it funny. I dont think many american film or TV show makers have discovered WIT yet

What is the general perception of America and Americans in your country? What is YOUR perception?

Loud, violent, overweight, "junk food thats killing us and our kids" spreading folks but thats mostly a media based perception. I think all in all most americans i have met in person have been very closely like aussies only louder and they talk funny 

Welcome to AHB mate and i hope you find some good stuff on here!


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## Liam_snorkel (28/5/11)

yum beer said:


> Oh **** me, I thought Working Class Man *WAS *the national anthem


It bloody well should be:


----------



## Mayor of Mildura (28/5/11)

Tony said:


> What has happened with the Australian aboriginee (I butchered that spelling I'm sure). Do they live on reservations like many Native American tribes do?
> 
> I read a lot of comments in the first couple pages saying "most live in suburbia" I spent 15 years living in NSW outback towns and if you have ever driven into a mission (aborigional comunity housing camps on the outskirts of town)...... you wouldnt call it suburbia!
> Some one said thay hadnt been treated any better than the native americans and i agree!
> I have known, drank with and worked with a lot of wonderful Aborigional people over the years but unfortunatly there are still a lot of problems... on both sides of the fence.



Tony is quoting me, sweet! 
I didn't mean any disrespect by my comment. So I thought I might explain myself. 
I don't disagree that some Aboriginal people live in less than ideal situations. I've seen it for myself. What i meant was that according to the most recent census the majority of the aboriginal population live in major cities. I was also trying to explain to our American friend that Aboriginal people are normal people like everyone else. It's not like they are aliens from mars living in a secret government building or something. 

OK any way. Have you ever heard of a kangawallafox......


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

pbrosnan said:


> Anyway, what about us? What do you reckon, and none of this "you Ossies are great" crap.



I'll get to this later on tonight as I dont have time to right now to write everything that I would like. I've got the little one running around.


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## Brewtus (28/5/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?
> All except South Sydney supporters



The few south Sydney supports I know would disagree with you. It was a bitter fight when Crowe took over.


----------



## [email protected] (28/5/11)

you lot are hilarious! some of those comment on the evil drop bears, and roos........ im rolling on the floor splitting my sides with laughter at work! absolute gold! 

yanks are cool...... i still want to know who ted marries.......... the transforemers movies could have had more transformers in them........ boulder in colarado is a rock climbers heaven....... 

as for drop bears......... i heard they like to feed on hot swedish chicks, who get lured into going camping by kangaroos........ and snuggly cute koalas...... then when they are asleep, the drop bears drop from coolabah trees and mung on said hot swedish tourists....... the kanagoos and koalas then nick off with the girls makeup and have dressup parties........... beer may have had an influence on the roos dressing up......

on politics...... julia gillard....... enough said........


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## Effect (28/5/11)

As you asked about whether we watch American or Australian Film, or both I thought I would list a few Aussie greats (IMO). If you would like to check out some good Aussie film and/or TV shows check out:

The Castle
We Can Be Heroes
Angry Boys
Summer Heights High
Hercules Returns
Chopper
Two Hands
Wolf Creek
Snow Town - going to watch this at the cinema tonight

Cheers
Phil


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## Jazzafish (28/5/11)

I think it is great that you have taken interest in another country... rare for an American unless you want to invade! Sick joke I know h34r: 

I've seen a few comments about your healthcare system. Is everything really free? I could walk into a hospital right now with a gash in my head, get it stapled/stitched and walk out not having to worry about a bill? Does this include dental/vision and everything else?
More or less for citizens... in the public sector there is a medicare system. The basics are paid for by the tax system. There are also private hospitals that tend to attract the better doctors for those who can afford it.

What is your federal tax rate?
I have lost count on our taxes... there are lots of them. The obvious ones are a 10% GST and a weighted income tax... works out to be roughly 30% for the average income. Lots of ways to claim some of this back if you have a creative accountant.

Is Rugby pretty much Austraila's version of baseball or what?
There are 3 main codes of football. Rugby Union and Rugby League and AFL. Rugby Union is the bigger game on a global scale, AFL is most popluar in the southern parts of the country and Rugby League on the mid to North East Coasts. They are winter sports like NFL.

Does anyone else think that Russell Crowe is an asshat also?
In the media yes, you do realise he is from New Zealand and migrated to Australia? Out of the public eye he does quite a lot for the community. Realistically he is just another fellow bogan with a high paying day job.

Is it awesome having Christmas in summer?
yes, probably like your 4th of July festivities

What has happened with the Australian aboriginee (I butchered that spelling I'm sure). Do they live on reservations like many Native American tribes do?
Some do, some live like the average citizen. 

Do you guys watch American movies at the theater? Australian? Both?
Both, but the American distribution pretty much has our theaters stitched up. Same with the music. So we get the majority of the American product. There are some awesome Australian movies/musicians out there, and even better more just waiting to be exposed... but unfortunately it is just the cheap productions or karaoke idols getting the time of day.

What is the general perception of America and Americans in your country? What is YOUR perception?
Generally, some of the nick names for Americans like "seppos" which comes from "septic tank" meaning full of shit... or "yank" which is slang for masturbation gives an indication that there have been a lot of interactions with Americans that are arrogant, self absorbed lairs. But I know that this doesn't describe all Americans, and indeed there are many characters from all nations that can fit into this category. A few friends that have been to your country have told me it is an awesome place unfortunately filled with Americans... but in a lovingly joking manner before they go back for fun so I guess that is a good thing. 

On a personal note I think I'd like it there.


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## [email protected] (28/5/11)

OOPS! i never knew yank meant that! im so sorry!


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## Jazzafish (28/5/11)

Snip:



ged said:


> People love their families and close friends. They love their country. They love holidays, social activities, hobbies, etc. They want the best for their kids



Like minded for sure


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## Liam_snorkel (28/5/11)

Phillip said:


> As you asked about whether we watch American or Australian Film, or both I thought I would list a few Aussie greats (IMO). If you would like to check out some good Aussie film and/or TV shows check out:
> 
> The Castle
> We Can Be Heroes
> ...


adding Bad Boy Bubby to this list


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

As for my perceptions on Australia:

It needs to be said that I have only met one Australian in my life. I just happened to strike up a conversation with this gentleman while on an almost 3 day train trip across the U.S. Seemed like a nice guy and if he is the Australian norm, then I think I'd get along with almost everyone there.

Obviously, I dont know much about Australia. This is probably because the news outlets in my country do not focus on your country (this is probably a good thing by the way) and I cant think of a movie besides Mad Max and that one with Nicole Kidman a few years ago that had anything to do with Australia. Point is, besides my one chat with an Australian and this website, I have not had any experience with Australians. So I cant really speak on the personalities of Australians. I will however comment on your culture. While I started this thread with the intention of NOT getting into too much political crap, I will touch upon briefly. Please do not take anything I say as an insult against Australia or Australians in general.

1. I'm riding the fence when it comes to your healthcare. I can see that your government is trying to put everyone on a level playing field as far as access to healthcare services, and thats more than admirable. But I dont think that I could stomach paying the extra taxes that go along with it. I make $800 a week at my job now, and I take home $599.80. Thats 25% to Uncle Sam straight off. Plus an average of 6% on damn near everything I purchase. I think thats too much already (its worth noting that I live in one of the highest taxed states). Its not that I dont want to take care of the little old lady down the street who is dying of cancer, but I really wouldnt think that it takes damn near half of my paycheck to do so (this is obviously over-simplified, of course). That and I couldnt imagine the types of scams that my "crafty" fellow Americans could run on this type of system. However, I do think that it would be interesting to see your system in action, and of course, maybe my tune would change if I weren't young and healthy.

2. I honestly cannot stomach the whole "no guns" thing you have going on. I dont consider myself to be a "lunatic" or "gun crazy" at all either. Consider it my way: Our 2nd Amendment guarantees the "right to keep and bear arms". While there is much debate about what excatly this means, what our Founding Fathers intended, and so on, it is clear that George Washington and Co. decided that they want us to be armed. Not only is it out right, but its considered a responsibility by many people in my country. I'm all for a moderate amount of regulation on FOID cards and concealed carry permits (theres hot debate in my states government on whether concealed carry will finally be allowed), i.e. no crazies/felons/etc. but I do believe that the right to keep and bear arms is a cornerstone to the founding of America, and its not going anywhere. Quite honestly, if I ever decided to move out of America (which I wont), your gun laws take Australia out of consideration.

3. (Flamesuit on) According to some peoples comments about the aboriginal people, its painfully obvious that state sponsored racism is alive and well in Australia. At least one poster said that its easier for them to receive government support than other ethnicities, which is a damn shame. This happens in America also. Native Americans college tuitions are much much cheaper than white Americans (or free altogether), those living on reservations receieve homes every decade or so. 
I spent 3 years living in Tucson AZ, in the Sonoran Desert just a hop skip and jump north of Mexico. Not too far from the city is a reservation of Native Americans, The Tohono O'odam people. From what I saw they live in squalor. Alcoholism, drug problems, and other health issues (diabetes and weight problems namely) run rampant, as do suicides. Roughly 95% are on welfare and dont do of anything during the days. A sad situation. But what does my government do? More handouts! These people have no feeling of self worth and not much more personal accountability. They dont have to do anything to support themselves, so why should they? A perfect example of government gone too big in my humble opinion. /rant off


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

beerbelly84 said:


> OOPS! i never knew yank meant that! im so sorry!




Haha, neither did I actually. I always thought it was a reference to the whole Civil War thing here in America where the Northerners were called Yankees and the Southerners were called Johnny Rebs


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## brett mccluskey (28/5/11)

Honest and forthright,i like the man :beer: Don't necessarily agree about healthcare or gun laws though


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

toper1 said:


> Honest and forthright,i like the man :beer: Don't necessarily agree about healthcare or gun laws though




I appreciate the compliment.

I dont expect a lot of "Hear hear!"s on either of those two topics. Different people from different lands I suppose.

Cheers anyways :beerbang:


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## fcmcg (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Quite honestly, if I ever decided to move out of America (which I wont), your gun laws take Australia out of consideration.


Just because we won't let you have guns , you wouldn't consider moving here ? 
Gee bloke , that's a bit harsh isn't it ? Even if we send Russel Crowe back to New Zealand ? h34r:


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## roo_dr (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Haha, neither did I actually. I always thought it was a reference to the whole Civil War thing here in America where the Northerners were called Yankees and the Southerners were called Johnny Rebs




I'm pretty sure that the original use stems from the 6 "Yankee" states of New England, around the time Captain Cook was first holidaying in Australia, as a derogatory name used by the English for people from New England, and subsequently the southern states for anybody from the northern states. It is used incorrectly by those outside of America as a name for anybody from the USA as a whole. Those that use it in the belief that they are suggesting a person practices masturbation, as in "what a bunch of yankers", are misguided in their use of the word.


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## Tim F (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> 1. I'm riding the fence when it comes to your healthcare. I can see that your government is trying to put everyone on a level playing field as far as access to healthcare services, and thats more than admirable. But I dont think that I could stomach paying the extra taxes that go along with it. I make $800 a week at my job now, and I take home $599.80. Thats 25% to Uncle Sam straight off. Plus an average of 6% on damn near everything I purchase. I think thats too much already (its worth noting that I live in one of the highest taxed states). Its not that I dont want to take care of the little old lady down the street who is dying of cancer, but I really wouldnt think that it takes damn near half of my paycheck to do so (this is obviously over-simplified, of course). That and I couldnt imagine the types of scams that my "crafty" fellow Americans could run on this type of system. However, I do think that it would be interesting to see your system in action, and of course, maybe my tune would change if I weren't young and healthy.



In Australia, if you grossed 800 a week you'd take home $684 - effectively paying around 14%. That's not accounting for any deductions etc. There's also a 10% GST but it's hard to say what that means without knowing the base prices of normal items. A large proportion of GST is returned to the states to fund services.

All opinions of course but I'd rather have the free health care for me and my family if/when I need it. And as for guns - we seem to be doing ok without them!


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## DU99 (28/5/11)

you can join a gun club,we still have duck shooting,just with our gun laws there's law's on what you can own and how many you can have..
http://www.ema.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page...earmsregulation 
the word aboriginal does not just apply to here 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aborigine


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Just because we won't let you have guns , you wouldn't consider moving here ?
> Gee bloke , that's a bit harsh isn't it ? Even if we send Russel Crowe back to New Zealand ? h34r:




Sorry, Australia is out.

Or you could let me have guns and I could take out Mr. Crowe the next time he sings. Seems fair to me :icon_cheers:


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

DU99 said:


> you can join a gun club,we still have duck shooting,just with our gun laws there's law's on what you can own and how many you can have..
> http://www.ema.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page...earmsregulation
> the word aboriginal does not just apply to here
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aborigine




You're quite correct on your second point.

As for your first, I understand that you can still own weapons, but to this red blooded American it seems that your laws are a bit constrictive.

And we have regulations on what we can have here also. For example, here in the state of IL 50 calibers are a no-no as are any weapons with flash suppressors. Basically anything that looks threatening  . Its not like every American owns an RPG and a fully automatic M-14 complete with bayonet lug


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

Tim F said:


> In Australia, if you grossed 800 a week you'd take home $684 - effectively paying around 14%. That's not accounting for any deductions etc. There's also a 10% GST but it's hard to say what that means without knowing the base prices of normal items. A large proportion of GST is returned to the states to fund services.
> 
> All opinions of course but I'd rather have the free health care for me and my family if/when I need it. And as for guns - we seem to be doing ok without them!



Well I think its fair to say I still have a lot to learn about your healthcare/tax system. Interesting.

I guess the gun issue is something that you'd have to grow up with to understand? I dont really know how to explain it....


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

And I do have to say that you Australians are waaaay more polite than most Americans.

Take this thread for example. Say one of you Aussies were to post a handful of similiar questions on an American forum. You'd get at least a handful of "Feck off, the internet is here for a reason, do your own research" replies. 

I'm actually surprised that so many of you took the time to write out lengthy and thoughtful replies, which I appreciate.


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## roo_dr (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I guess the gun issue is something that you'd have to grow up with to understand? I dont really know how to explain it....



Family Guy explains it pretty well..


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## EMalmgren (28/5/11)

Alright, SWMBO is bitching that I've been on the interwebs too much this evening. If momma aint happy, aint no one happy.

Cheers everyone

Erik


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## bconnery (28/5/11)

An Australian satirist also gave a comment on the gun issue that has always resonated for me. It went basically something like:
(highly paraphrased, not a word for word quote)
"200+ years ago a bunch of gun toting militants kicked the shit out of the British and started a country. They were so impressed with this they made it a constitutional right to be able to carry guns. This is fine when you are talking about a 200 year old revolution but is isn't so great when you are talking about downtown Detroit right now. "

So, I think we can see where I stand, but yes, I imagine the position is something you have to grow up with. 

I like beer.


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## Tim F (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Well I think its fair to say I still have a lot to learn about your healthcare/tax system. Interesting.
> 
> I guess the gun issue is something that you'd have to grow up with to understand? I dont really know how to explain it....



It's probably exactly the same here! I'd say Australians pretty much universally think the gun situation in America is just wacky - we just wouldn't see the need to have gun. Not to say I wouldn't mind owning one, have had fun target shooting in the past. But I feel a lot safer knowing if I did get in a fight or someone tried to mug me in town or something like that it's highly unlikely there'd be guns involved.


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## Effect (28/5/11)

What does one actually need a gun for in america? Why do people need to bear arms?

How many times a day/week/month do you personally fire a gun?

I can't think of a time that I have ever thought 'gee, I wish I brought my gun with me' or 'damn, this is the reason why we should be allowed to have guns at home'.

There was a news report back in the 90s one day. It flashed at the bottom of the tv during a talk show of some sort and it went something like 'don't go outside in the eastern side of town, there is a criminal on the loose, do not attempt to approach this person, police are dealing with the situation'. We went and locked the front and back door (which aren't locked during the day - only at night or when nobody is home) and just went back to watching the TV show. I didn't think 'shit, I wish I could bear arms and protect my family' - what I did think was 'gee, I'm glad this guy doesn't have a gun - the police will have this guy sorted out in no time'.

I have met several Americans before, through work, uni and living abroad. One of my uni lecturers (and later he became my boss) didn't like the fact that he wasn't allowed to buy and keep a gun at his home. Now this guy didn't live on a farm. He lived in a 3 bedroom house about a kilometer from the main street in Katoomba, Blue Mountains. What possible reason would he need a gun for?


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## Braumoasta (28/5/11)

In my opinion our gun laws are excellent. If you want to use a gun for hunting/vermin control, then it is possible to obtain a gun. The strict laws ensure that you're getting a gun for the right reasons. In saying that, I think that if someone is going to try and kill/seriously injure someone, then they will always find a way to do it and not having a gun isn't going to stop them.


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## shadders (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Quite honestly, if I ever decided to move out of America (which I wont), your gun laws take Australia out of consideration.



Well I'm not too familiar with gun laws around the world but I suspect that would narrow your choices of countries quite a lot. I understand that it's fundamental to your culture but other than that I can't actually see the argument for freely available firearms. Unless you think you'll need to revolt against your government or you're a farmer with a legitimate use for them I don't see the need to have them, in the UK police don't even carry them unless for a special purpose event. I suppose we are a lot more relaxed about not being armed here because we don't have to worry about other people walking around with weapons. Compare the murder rates here, in the UK and then in the US. I know the old argument 'guns don't kill people', fair enough but they sure as shit make it a lot easier for people to kill people.


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## mh971 (28/5/11)

I reckon the world needs more Guns. We also need more rednecks(with Guns), religous extremists(with Guns), and capitalists(with really f#*kn big guns). Australia in particular needs more of all these things.

I am just so over the dream of the latte sippin commy greens that my children might have the opportunity to grow up in a peaceful, universally prosperous, sustainable, tolerant and healthy world, who would want that? Seriously? 

I always thought owning a gun was only required if you had small dick, or a big one that doesn't work, or to protect yourself from either of the former types of angry people, or if none of the previous, that you really liked men but wanted to throw people off the scent of man love with 'I kill things, therefore I am Man'.

+1 on Hercules returns and Angry Boys


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## fcmcg (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> And I do have to say that you Australians are waaaay more polite than most Americans.
> 
> Take this thread for example. Say one of you Aussies were to post a handful of similiar questions on an American forum. You'd get at least a handful of "Feck off, the internet is here for a reason, do your own research" replies.
> 
> I'm actually surprised that so many of you took the time to write out lengthy and thoughtful replies, which I appreciate.


If you ask air lock related questions , you will get told to do some frigging research lol h34r:


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## fawnroux (28/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> And I do have to say that you Australians are waaaay more polite than most Americans.


No we're not.

It's just you're asking homebrewers these questions. Homebrewers rock! :beerbang: 

We're the salt of the earth


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## Bada Bing Brewery (28/5/11)

I always thought 'yanks' basically came from yankee and 'seppo's' derived from yank = septic tank (get it, it rhymes - oh the humour) = seppo .....
But I'll have a captain cook and get back to you on that
Cheers
BBB


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## dcx3 (28/5/11)

A couple of things Eric.
The first Australians are just like every other indigenous peoples of the world that had the misfortune of meeting the British..... they got phucked!
It happened in Hawaii with the common cold and it happened in Tahitti with syphillis.That list is a long one so i'll leave it there.

On politics: Most aussies hate politicians which is the real reason why we have such strong gun controls.If i had a gun and saw one i'd use it.
The last election was a stalemate and voting trends showed Australians were now voting against the two major parties and more for independent's.

Racism:Australia is a pretty racist country.This i put down mainly to the people that have migrated here,alot of them are just flat out bigots.
A classic Australian saying is "Give everyone a fair go" but new Australians wouldn't have a clue about it.For the most part their a product of their environment.That being said Australia has something about it that you just cant quantify,a way of making all people feel equal.The new Aussies may not get "it" but their kids and grand kids do.


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/5/11)

Drop bears are real, and they scare the shit out any anyone.... tough little fuckers and hard ( read impossible ) to catch

Kangarooś/Wallabies are very common outside cities and large towns. In fact, in regional areas panel beaters/smash repaires main income is from roos fighting with cars...

Australia must be Awsome, cause we had a PM named Kevin, who was replaced by an un married red head women living with a male hairdresser... :icon_chickcheers: 

Vegemite is awsome

It is law that Australians take the piss out of each other... if you cant get up your mate, then you are not Australian

I dont agree that Australia is a racist country. The media seem to think that and play that card, but I have never seen it, and I have been all over the place

We have awsome food, fresh, tasty and free of chemicals. My old man went to the USA and generally liked the place, but thought the food in general was bland and over processed


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## AussieJosh (28/5/11)

It breaks my heart when i see on the news somone has gone on a shooting rampage in a U.S school or workplace.... again. I dont remeber the last time a kid went to school uni/collage in Australia and started shooting people? I know of one person who has hand guns. He works at the same place as me and to be honest he is a bit strange. But im always really nice to him just in case one day he cracks and comes to work and starts blasting!

The white men that founded/invaded Australia and the U.S.A , in my opinion are a little bit retarded in todays world. Have you seen a movie that might be only 10 or 15 years old in reecent times... and thoght (this is shit) But 10 or 15 years ago you thought it was awsome! I think this is because we are rapidly evolving. Laws that were made 400, 200, 20, 10 or even 5 years ago may not work in todays society.


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## petesbrew (28/5/11)

Phillip said:


> As you asked about whether we watch American or Australian Film, or both I thought I would list a few Aussie greats (IMO). If you would like to check out some good Aussie film and/or TV shows check out:
> 
> The Castle
> We Can Be Heroes
> ...






Liam_snorkel said:


> adding Bad Boy Bubby to this list



Add to that list *BMX Bandits*. One of Nicole Kidman's finest appearances.
Let's Get Skase - (kind of an Australian Version of Inglorious Basterds.... um... kind of.... basically a crack team of Aussies out to get Australia's most hated villain.)
Romper Stomper (Sir Asshat's best movie.)
Metal Skin (illegal drags)

But across the Tasman there's some interesting flicks to be found.
Once Were Warriors
Meet the Feebles
Bad Taste
Black Sheep


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## Amin (28/5/11)

Wake in Fright


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## Tim F (29/5/11)

AussieJosh said:


> The white men that founded/invaded Australia and the U.S.A , in my opinion are a little bit retarded in todays world.



+1


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## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

roo_dr said:


> I'm pretty sure that the original use stems from the 6 "Yankee" states of New England, around the time Captain Cook was first holidaying in Australia, as a derogatory name used by the English for people from New England, and subsequently the southern states for anybody from the northern states. It is used incorrectly by those outside of America as a name for anybody from the USA as a whole. Those that use it in the belief that they are suggesting a person practices masturbation, as in "what a bunch of yankers", are misguided in their use of the word.




I practice my masturbation skills quite often so maybe they're not all that misguided.

Dont want to get rusty :icon_cheers:


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## fcmcg (29/5/11)

We know your a wanker ,Bloke ...what type of brewer are you ? h34r:


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## fcmcg (29/5/11)

We know your a wanker ,Bloke ...what type of brewer are you ? h34r:


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## Ivan Other One (29/5/11)

petesbrew said:


> Add to that list *BMX Bandits*. One of Nicole Kidman's finest appearances.
> Let's Get Skase - (kind of an Australian Version of Inglorious Basterds.... um... kind of.... basically a crack team of Aussies out to get Australia's most hated villain.)
> Romper Stomper (Sir Asshat's best movie.)
> Metal Skin (illegal drags)
> ...



All top movies Pete.
Meet the Feebles,,,,,, That show is fully sick and piss funny.


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## booargy (29/5/11)

> But across the Tasman there's some interesting flicks to be found.
> Once Were Warriors
> Meet the Feebles
> Bad Taste
> Black Sheep



NZ tv series Outrageous Fortunes


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## Bribie G (29/5/11)

Hey EM - I've always wondered, on TV with shows like ER you see the treatment rooms full of poor people with gunshot wounds etc. However in real life in the USA, if you are in a bad car crash for example and the ambulance arrives, if you don't have health insurance do they just turn around and drive off and leave you, or do you get taken to hospital and treated for a month then given say a half million dollar bill - so what if you are poor, do you then go to jail or something?


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## yum beer (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> 2. I honestly cannot stomach the whole "no guns" thing you have going on. I dont consider myself to be a "lunatic" or "gun crazy" at all either. Consider it my way: Our 2nd Amendment guarantees the "right to keep and bear arms". While there is much debate about what excatly this means, what our Founding Fathers intended, and so on, it is clear that George Washington and Co. decided that they want us to be armed. Not only is it out right, but its considered a responsibility by many people in my country. I'm all for a moderate amount of regulation on FOID cards and concealed carry permits (theres hot debate in my states government on whether concealed carry will finally be allowed), i.e. no crazies/felons/etc. but I do believe that the right to keep and bear arms is a cornerstone to the founding of America, and its not going anywhere. Quite honestly, if I ever decided to move out of America (which I wont), your gun laws take Australia out of consideration.




Im not going to deny you the right to your own opinion, but I believe the American people take the 2nd Amendment way too literal.
I dont think George Washington and co. wanted their people to be armed for the sake of owning a gun....its was intended as an ideal that all Americans have the right to defend and protect what is theirs. remembering this was written around the time of America gaining independence and fighting off the British, and was intended to continue that independence and freedom.

As for no crazies or felons being able to own guns.....sane, normal people dont kill others, so there must be a lot of 'crazies' running around with guns, happily assisted by their Government to be allowed to do so, who can at any given time snap and take out a shitload of people.
Im sorry mate but Mr Average Suburbia has no need for a gun....when he gets pissed off with the world if he has no gun he cant shoot people..and you cant say it doesnt happen because we see it regularly on TV and Im sure we dont hear about all the smaller incedences.
So own a gun if you wish and be glad that you can, but dont be blinded as to why you believe that its your right.


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## drew9242 (29/5/11)

BribieG said:


> Hey EM - I've always wondered, on TV with shows like ER you see the treatment rooms full of poor people with gunshot wounds etc. However in real life in the USA, if you are in a bad car crash for example and the ambulance arrives, if you don't have health insurance do they just turn around and drive off and leave you, or do you get taken to hospital and treated for a month then given say a half million dollar bill - so what if you are poor, do you then go to jail or something?




This is the good question that i would like to know the answer. 

As for americans and canadians or any foreigner that comes to australia. I alway's love talking to them and discussing different cultures. I show them around here with great pride.

As for kangaroos i live in a suburban city of 30000 and right now i can see 2 kangaroos having a fight in the paddock 1km away.


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## yum beer (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> And we have regulations on what we can have here also. For example, here in the state of IL 50 calibers are a no-no as are any weapons with flash suppressors. Basically anything that looks threatening  . Its not like every American owns an RPG and a fully automatic M-14 complete with bayonet lug



Just a small add-on, and I probably would speak for most Aussies,
I find that any gun is threatening, I once had a shotgun pointed at me in my younger days and Im pretty sure that knowing it wasnt a 50 caliber with a flash suppressor wasnt going to make it less threatening.

Justification is a wonderful thing.


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## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

BribieG said:


> Hey EM - I've always wondered, on TV with shows like ER you see the treatment rooms full of poor people with gunshot wounds etc. However in real life in the USA, if you are in a bad car crash for example and the ambulance arrives, if you don't have health insurance do they just turn around and drive off and leave you, or do you get taken to hospital and treated for a month then given say a half million dollar bill - so what if you are poor, do you then go to jail or something?




Absolutely not.

I should have mentioned earlier, here in the States we have something called a "medical card". Basically, if a person makes below X amount a year, they can go apply for one. It takes care of everything, meaning the state pays for it. Medical, dental, and vision. You would get the same quality of care in a hospital that an insured person would. When it comes to dental and vision its not so great, but it does allow for care.

Also, if one is uninsured and doesnt have a medical card you still get the same treatment at a hospital. I've done this once. Storytime: After my father passed and I moved back to my hometown and was looking for a job, a buddy took me to the city over for a small concert at a place on the banks of the Illinois River. Paid for everything for me and kept the drinks coming all night. At the end of the concert the drummer came out and threw his sticks in the crowd, and I caught one. Walking out (stumbling really) some random asshole came up and took the drumstick out of my pocket and took off. I caught up to him in the parking lot and we went at it. He produced a billy club and lit into me. After whacking me a few times I double legged em and he brought the club down on me splitting my skull something fierce. After the fight was over (I got em on the ground in a reverse choke and choked him out lol) I was bleeding profusely and went to the hospital.

I was admitted no questions asked, got 10 staples in my head and went home. I receieved a bill about a month later for $700 along with a list of charities in the state of IL that would take care of most, if not all of the bill for me. I declined the charity and took care of the bill over the course of 3 and a half years paying what I could when I could. 

Of course the drumstick story is now a joke amongst my friends and with my SWMBO. Whenever I get on her when she spends too much money shopping for clothes, she asks me where my $700 drumstick is.

Despite what you may have been told, here in America we dont let our poor die because they cant pay their bills. Its also worth noting that we take care of foreigners/immigrants whether they be legal or illegal. With illegals the state or federal government usually are the ones that pick up the tab for their care.

And there arent any debtors prisons here in the States. Our founding fathers made sure of that. If one cant pay a bill for whatever reason, its turned over to a collection agency which will hound you and interest is charged. If you continue to not pay said bill, then it hurts your credit score and, of course, a poor credit score makes it almost impossible to get a houseloan from a bank.


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## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

yum beer said:


> Just a small add-on, and I probably would speak for most Aussies,
> I find that any gun is threatening, I once had a shotgun pointed at me in my younger days and Im pretty sure that knowing it wasnt a 50 caliber with a flash suppressor wasnt going to make it less threatening.
> 
> Justification is a wonderful thing.




I'd have to say that the person who pointed the gun at you was threatening. 

Do you find a loaded gun, with safety on, to be threatening? What about an unloaded gun?

Sorry, I find this to be silly. A gun is an piece of metal with a few working parts. What it really comes down to is the person who has the gun in their hand.

It also needs to be said that we have tons of firearms safety classes here in my country. While they arent mandatory most people choose to take them. Off the top of my head, I dont think that I know a person who owns a gun who hasnt taken one, and most people I know own a gun. Unfortunately, the stories coming out of America that you've heard about are the schmucks that havent taken one or didnt care because they intended to do harm anyways.


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## Ironsides (29/5/11)

I know plenty of guys that own firearms. A few are competition pistol shooters, they keep them under the bed in a safeand the rules to keep them are quite strict. I quite enjoy shooting, but the fact remains, if there are less guns, then there are fewer deaths from guns. One thing that is often overlooked is the number of accidental deaths and injuries. Even the sane gun owners have accidents. I also never have to worry that my 5 year old newphew will find a pistol to play with at a mates place, or that a stray round from someone shooting tin cans in the backyard might come through my window. 

Currently sitting in my loungeroom typing this, i do not feel that my suburban home would be improved by the addition firearms. When I lived in the country it would ahve been good to be able to shoot some foxes that were taking the sheep. But then, firearms are a tool for a purpose, not an ornament for the house just to have for the sake of having.

Oh and i personally know someone in the states whose partner bleed to death in teh street while the paramedics were looking through his wallet for some evidence of health insurance.


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## yum beer (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I'd have to say that the person who pointed the gun at you was threatening.
> 
> Do you find a loaded gun, with safety on, to be threatening? What about an unloaded gun?
> 
> ...



Argh, there it is 'Guns dont kill people, people kill people'

Justification is a wonderful thing.....


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

Ironsides said:


> I know plenty of guys that own firearms. A few are competition pistol shooters, they keep them under the bed in a safeand the rules to keep them are quite strict. I quite enjoy shooting, but the fact remains, if there are less guns, then there are fewer deaths from guns. One thing that is often overlooked is the number of accidental deaths and injuries. Even the sane gun owners have accidents. I also never have to worry that my 5 year old newphew will find a pistol to play with at a mates place, or that a stray round from someone shooting tin cans in the backyard might come through my window.
> 
> Currently sitting in my loungeroom typing this, i do not feel that my suburban home would be improved by the addition firearms. When I lived in the country it would ahve been good to be able to shoot some foxes that were taking the sheep. But then, firearms are a tool for a purpose, not an ornament for the house just to have for the sake of having.
> 
> Oh and i personally know someone in the states whose partner bleed to death in teh street while the paramedics were looking through his wallet for some evidence of health insurance.



And any responsible gun owner here in the states will have their firearms locked up in some way or at the very least out of the reach of children. And there is no legal shooting inside towns(bb guns being the exception). If I was out plinking away at cans with a .22, the cops would be here lickety split putting cold steel around my wrists. 

To get back on firearms around children, one guy posted earlier and said that an American buddy had a pic of his child sitting next to an AR-15 on his facebook. This is foolish. Not one person I know would do anything like this, whether the gun was loaded or unloaded. This kind of behaviour is the exception, not the norm. Defintely not a responsible gun owner.

As for your last sentence, this is rubbish. As a certified EMT I can tell you with 100% certainty that our healthcare workers are not trained to pull this crap. I suspect the story that you heard isnt quite the whole story.


----------



## Golani51 (29/5/11)

felten said:


> We live 15km out from the CBD and have seen roos on the morning walk just a few K's away, which is still in the middle of the 'burbs.
> 
> 
> Most of my friends are yanks, one of my mates recently bought an AR15 from parts purchased entirely over the internet. He's a young bloke with a wife and baby and it really blew me away to see him putting this thing together over facebook, and then pics of it in his living room all setup with his kid sitting next to it.
> ...



When living in Israel between 98 and 04, I carried anything from a 9mm pistol (SigSauer 226) to and M24 Sniper rifle, M16 or micro Uzi. As most of the population goes through military training and leans to respect guns, it was no biggie. I was involved in the military and security however. Either way, the gun laws there are theoretically strict. You cannot just go to a shop and buy a gun. You don't see people walking around waving guns , shooting into the air, or acting tough. They are bloody heavy and cumbersome. Even a pistol is a pain to carry around. You do it because you think you are cool, or necessity. Not 'just because'.

Crime there is not gun- related. Definitely not more than here. I have never heard of a bank being held up there. You don't get mugged either. 

You could always spot the Amercan expats by the way they carried a gun...like some smart arse show- off. They were usually 40lb overweight, and had shiny 44mag Python revolvers on shoulder holsters (or two). Who uses a revolver against terrorists (the main reason for carrying weapons there)??


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

yum beer said:


> Argh, there it is 'Guns dont kill people, people kill people'
> 
> Justification is a wonderful thing.....



So is irrational fear of inanimate objects.....


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

Golani51 said:


> When living in Israel between 98 and 04, I carried anything from a 9mm pistol (SigSauer 226) to and M24 Sniper rifle, M16 or micro Uzi. As most of the population goes through military training and leans to respect guns, it was no biggie. I was involved in the military and security however. Either way, the gun laws there are theoretically strict. You cannot just go to a shop and buy a gun. You don't see people walking around waving guns , shooting into the air, or acting tough. They are bloody heavy and cumbersome. Even a pistol is a pain to carry around. You do it because you think you are cool, or necessity. Not 'just because'.
> 
> Crime there is not gun- related. Definitely not more than here. I have never heard of a bank being held up there. You don't get mugged either.
> 
> You could always spot the Amercan expats by the way they carried a gun...like some smart arse show- off. They were usually 40lb overweight, and had shiny 44mag Python revolvers on shoulder holsters (or two). Who uses a revolver against terrorists (the main reason for carrying weapons there)??



This made me laugh. Unfortunately, as a country, we have more than our share of idiots here in the US.


----------



## Golani51 (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> And any responsible gun owner here in the states will have their firearms locked up in some way or at the very least out of the reach of children. And there is no legal shooting inside towns(bb guns being the exception). If I was out plinking away at cans with a .22, the cops would be here lickety split putting cold steel around my wrists.
> 
> To get back on firearms around children, one guy posted earlier and said that an American buddy had a pic of his child sitting next to an AR-15 on his facebook. This is foolish. Not one person I know would do anything like this, whether the gun was loaded or unloaded. This kind of behaviour is the exception, not the norm. Defintely not a responsible gun owner.



In Israel the kids know that when someone comes in carrying an M16 for example (Ie brother coming home from army for weekend), the rifle is put behind the couch, on top of a shelf etc and they do not touch it. Of course the magazines are stored elsewhere, as it the bolt (if for more than just a visit), but they learn to respect it. Different culture. 

Boys going army training (Ie high school cadets) used to carry home rifles on public transport (albeit sans bullets) and no-one went postal. Until the %&^& hits the fan, people will be against weapons here. Education and taking responsibilty is the key, not a virtual blanket ban for political points. I used to shoot here as well (not a hunter). I guess bullets simply got more dangerous.

When I went for my shooting test here (multiple choice), the cops actually 'helped' someone pass. Literally guided him through the solutions when he returned a failed grade (however that is possible). It really is true- blame the person and not the gun.


----------



## Golani51 (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> This made me laugh. Unfortunately, as a country, we have more than our share of idiots here in the US.



Despite the crap you see on the news, you even think of shooting a gun in the air, you'll be in prison before you can reload. 
\
As for morons in the US, considering you have to wait till 21 to drink (losers), they shouldn't allow anyone to hold a gun. Might be too dangerous to your health.

R


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

Phillip said:


> What does one actually need a gun for in america? Why do people need to bear arms?
> 
> How many times a day/week/month do you personally fire a gun?
> 
> ...



In America we obviously have gun crime. Illegal guns are on the streets and they are used daily. I like having a gun in my house for protection against intruders. I have my 12 guage up in my closet loaded, all I need to do is pump it and its ready to go.

I wouldnt say that Americans "need" the right to bear arms, but its nice having. Have you been watching the news coming out of Syria? Military/police forces firing on unarmed demonstrators etc. Think that will ever happen in the US? Every gun owner would be out in force if it did. Our government knows this and acts accordingly. Could that sort of thing happen in Australia? Probably not. But what if it did? What recourse would you have? Do you trust your government that much?

I take my shotgun out on average about once a month. My brother and I will buy a case of clays and go out to our farm and toss em over the pond. BTW, there is never beer drinking involved :icon_cheers:


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## roger mellie (29/5/11)

Liam_snorkel said:


> to add to this -
> Rugby League: bastards playing a gentleman's game,
> Rugby Union: gentlemen playing a bastard's game.



Leeeeegue - for people who can only count to 5

Nuff Said


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

Golani51 said:


> In Israel the kids know that when someone comes in carrying an M16 for example (Ie brother coming home from army for weekend), the rifle is put behind the couch, on top of a shelf etc and they do not touch it. Of course the magazines are stored elsewhere, as it the bolt (if for more than just a visit), but they learn to respect it. Different culture.
> 
> Boys going army training (Ie high school cadets) used to carry home rifles on public transport (albeit sans bullets) and no-one went postal. Until the %&^& hits the fan, people will be against weapons here. Education and taking responsibilty is the key, not a virtual blanket ban for political points. I used to shoot here as well (not a hunter). I guess bullets simply got more dangerous.
> 
> When I went for my shooting test here (multiple choice), the cops actually 'helped' someone pass. Literally guided him through the solutions when he returned a failed grade (however that is possible). It really is true- blame the person and not the gun.



That kind of how it was in my family. After a certain age and a long final lecture about the dangers, we were allowed complete access to his firearms (and he had plenty). All guns except his bedside .45 were unloaded. I once grabbed his 2nd .45 which I knew was unloaded and handed it to him without visually verifying that there wasnt a round in the chamber. I was sternly told to put it back, that I could touch his "damned firearms" when I knew how to handle them in a mature matter. It was months before I was allowed to handle a weapon around him. Lesson learned.

We also did somewhat regular times when we took the weapons out and cleaned them. Part of this was necessity on my dads part as he had disfiguring arthritis and couldnt do common household chores so we did it for him. But was also part of his ongoing firearms education to us kids.

Most of my gun owning friends learned about weapons in a similar way.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (29/5/11)

We may not have guns but we have dangerous shit down here too ....... Vegemite - Its been banned in Denmark.
We live on the edge every breakfast...
Cheers
BBB


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

yum beer said:


> Argh, there it is 'Guns dont kill people, people kill people'
> 
> Justification is a wonderful thing.....




If I killed someone by beating them to death with a hammer, did the hammer kill them or did I? I did, of course.

Why does this logic magically change if you switch out "hammer" for "firearm"?


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> We may not have guns but we have dangerous shit down here too ....... Vegemite - Its been banned in Denmark.
> We live on the edge every breakfast...
> Cheers
> BBB




Is this vegemite like our V8? Vegetables thrown in a blender that is supposedly good to drink?

Here in the States we have "V8 Splash" now. They've thrown some fruits in there so it supposedly tastes better. Even more dangerous.


----------



## roo_dr (29/5/11)

yum beer said:


> Argh, there it is 'Guns dont kill people, people kill people'
> 
> Justification is a wonderful thing.....




There have been studies that prove that there is no connection whatsoever between having a gun and shooting someone, and not having a gun and not shooting someone. Just ask Bill.


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## DUANNE (29/5/11)

has any one ever thought in the states that if not every one was able to posses a gun, then every one would not need a gun to protect themselves from everyone else who has guns? very backward way of thinking imo. i do enjoy shooting and guns and think australia has gone way over the top with gun control, but i also believe guns are not a right but rather a privilige. as to the argument that if you live in the city then you dont need a gun and shouldnt need to own one then what do you use when you go up bush to go hunting a couple of times a year? again it should come down to how responsible you are not what your postcode is.it has been made a way to emotional subject gun ownership and common sense seems to get thrown out the window way to easily on both sides of the argument in preferance to overly simplified statements.


----------



## TonyC (29/5/11)

How many booze related road deaths last year in Australia, should we buy back all hotels and cars? i do not keep firearms in my house, but after a recent triple murder 5 mins from my house i now wonder. The allegded killer used a shotgun to blow the windows out, to gain access to the house. He only stopped shooting when the police fired at him, you reckon he would have made it in the house if a blast from a shotgun came back at him? I think we have a happy medium with our laws in Australia, and would not like to see it loosen any. 

Reards Tony


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## DUANNE (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> If I killed someone by beating them to death with a hammer, did the hammer kill them or did I? I did, of course.
> 
> Why does this logic magically change if you switch out "hammer" for "firearm"?




if some one was to try and kill me with a hammer id have a resonable chance of fighting back, maybe even taking the hammer off the assailant and using it back on him if i wanted. there is virtually no chance of this with a person holding a gun on you from ten feet away ready to kill. in either case yes it was the person holding the weapon that killed but the ease of wich the killing was achieved is worlds apart.


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## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

BEERHOG said:


> if some one was to try and kill me with a hammer id have a resonable chance of fighting back, maybe even taking the hammer off the assailant and using it back on him if i wanted. there is virtually no chance of this with a person holding a gun on you from ten feet away ready to kill. in either case yes it was the person holding the weapon that killed but the ease of wich the killing was achieved is worlds apart.



Good point. Which is why I prefer the option of having a concealed weapon on my person. I could then make the choice on whether to do what the person says, or draw my weapon and use it. I can guarantee that 99.5% of the time I WILL NOT be drawing my weapon.

Point is, criminals here have firearms. They seek them out and use them. I'll be damned if I'm not going to be armed so that I can have the option of defending myself.

If you dont understand the mindset then you dont understand. But that sure as hell doesnt mean that guns are "dangerous" or "threatening".


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## petesbrew (29/5/11)

Fired one gun in my life - a 22 at a rifle range when I was a scout. Awesome fun.
Apart from that, a mate in school was a real Rambo fan, & he made heaps of wooden guns. I mean you know when someone's gun obsessed when he's made an M60 complete with ammo chain (made out of masking tape and matchsticks)! We used to run around his place making farting/machine gun noises, jumping up from the pool, M60-toting-Chuck-Norris style.
Apart from that, video games and a couple of games of Paintball, I don't think I'm missing out by not owning a gun. I have no need of one, as don't lots of people living in the city.

Kangaroos, once you get out of sydney you see them everywhere. Makes for a good game of spotto on road trips, how many types of roadkill you see, wombats, roos, foxes...


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## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

Alright, I'm done with the gun topic. I highly doubt that we're going to really agree on this issue.

Lets just chalk it up to a cultural difference between our two countries.

Tell me about your labor unions. Are they hardcore like they are here in America?


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## TonyC (29/5/11)

Jeez,
here we go!


----------



## fawnroux (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Tell me about your labor unions. Are they hardcore like they are here in America?



:lol: Mate, can you pick up all those worms and put em back into that nice can.

I thought you said you didn't want to talk politics?


----------



## EMalmgren (29/5/11)

thefawnroux said:


> :lol: Mate, can you pick up all those worms and put em back into that nice can.
> 
> I thought you said you didn't want to talk politics?



Haha, I'm going to take that as a "Yes, they are just like in the States"

Question answered.

And its not that I dont want to talk politics, I just dont want this friendly thread to turn into a flame-fest


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## Ducatiboy stu (29/5/11)

Vegamite is a black spread that you put on toast or sandwiches. It is made from brewers yeast and is very salty. Similalr to Marmite. All Australian babies are fed it from birth :icon_cheers: 

A Vegamite sandwich is a right of passage for any foreigner who visits here


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## spog (29/5/11)

union,s are a pack of c^&*s,they have a job,s for the boy,s mentality and dont care who they **** over.they did to me because i refused to join...**** em .......cheers......spog.......


EMalmgren said:


> Alright, I'm done with the gun topic. I highly doubt that we're going to really agree on this issue.
> 
> Lets just chalk it up to a cultural difference between our two countries.
> 
> Tell me about your labor unions. Are they hardcore like they are here in America?


----------



## bowie in space (29/5/11)

Ivan Other One said:


> All top movies Pete.
> Meet the Feebles,,,,,, That show is fully sick and piss funny.




You are all foretting the best NZ flick of all...."BRAINDEAD"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## yum beer (29/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> Alright, I'm done with the gun topic. I highly doubt that we're going to really agree on this issue.
> 
> Lets just chalk it up to a cultural difference between our two countries.
> 
> Tell me about your labor unions. Are they hardcore like they are here in America?



Fair enough mate,
very different cultural values. nothing personal.

Our unions are now pale deballed versions of what they once where


----------



## haysie (29/5/11)

Spog, thats just real me myself talk. Our unions here have such a history that people dont/wont recoginise. Our union system is getting stronger AGAIN after the failed Howard government banned unionist`s and declared war on employees and subbies. The Howard way hasnt increased payrates nor better working conditions, the only winners are the fascist take all party...... normally we call them employers, some workers call them thieves.

@ EMalmgren, its a mess with a new generation, carbon tax, whale saving etc etc.... no fkn idea whats ahead of them.


----------



## kelbygreen (29/5/11)

matt I whole heartily agree. In aus as in america you need a licence for a gun (well if you obtain it legally of coarse) and in australia most guns are for hunting pigs or barra fishing ( the crocs up there you need a water proof one). now to bear arms for protection??? if you shot a robber coz they was in your house that is murder! so to have grounds to shoot some one you have to be in a life threatening situation and if your in this situation you dont have time to go * hang on would you mind just waiting there a moment while i go unlock my gun cabinet, pull out my gun come back down and we can start this all over??* 

I bet the amount of shootings you hear there are way over the one here I have heard of 2 shooting here in 8 years how many in the 8 years there?


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## haysie (29/5/11)

kelbygreen said:


> I bet the amount of shootings you hear there are way over the one here I have heard of 2 shooting here in 8 years how many in the 8 years there?



Its certainly a "horses for courses" debate.

Matt, thats really bad news you posted, we all hope these sort of things dont happen. I wish you well mate.


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## kelbygreen (29/5/11)

sorry Matt Please take my condolences. It would be a bad thing to experience and thats why I am glad we live in australia as these stories dont seem to be very common but when it does happen ever one morns for the loss of the people. I hope you and your family are coping with the loss Matt and if you need anything we are always here you know the brewing community has your back what ever you need.


----------



## Filby (29/5/11)

haysie said:


> Spog, thats just real me myself talk. Our unions here have such a history that people dont/wont recoginise. Our union system is getting stronger AGAIN after the failed Howard government banned unionist`s and declared war on employees and subbies. The Howard way hasnt increased payrates nor better working conditions, the only winners are the fascist take all party...... normally we call them employers, some workers call them thieves.
> 
> @ EMalmgren, its a mess with a new generation, carbon tax, whale saving etc etc.... no fkn idea whats ahead of them.




Yer I hate those employers who built their business and pay my wages. **** em! We should screw them for every cent and working condition till they go broke and we can..ugh..end up unemployed....


----------



## haysie (29/5/11)

Filby said:


> Yer I hate those employers who built their business and pay my wages. **** em! We should screw them for every cent and working condition till they go broke and we can..ugh..end up unemployed....



Spoken like a true servient.

Edited, the upskilling priority, people like you would expect to sit back and let the BOSS do it for you.


----------



## Lecterfan (29/5/11)

Lecterfan said:


> Don't worry, you won't need to get into the debate, others will do it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> Beer! :icon_chickcheers:




:lol:


----------



## spog (30/5/11)

and what are the wharfies wanting now? more for less.i got sacked once for refusing to join,my boss was theatened with being shut down if i did,nt go... anyway the 2 union wankers turn the town upside down with thier denands then went up the coast to try it on elsewhere...the union boss and his knuckle dragging offsider got the shit slapped out of them when they pissed the wrong bloke of (yep one bloke) so they chartered a plane to fly themselves back to adelaide,and i wonder where the money came from to pay for the plane.........cheers......spog.......


haysie said:


> Spog, thats just real me myself talk. Our unions here have such a history that people dont/wont recoginise. Our union system is getting stronger AGAIN after the failed Howard government banned unionist`s and declared war on employees and subbies. The Howard way hasnt increased payrates nor better working conditions, the only winners are the fascist take all party...... normally we call them employers, some workers call them thieves.
> 
> @ EMalmgren, its a mess with a new generation, carbon tax, whale saving etc etc.... no fkn idea whats ahead of them.


----------



## Golani51 (30/5/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> We may not have guns but we have dangerous shit down here too ....... Vegemite - Its been banned in Denmark.
> We live on the edge every breakfast...
> Cheers
> BBB




It is also illegal in the US. If customs catch you trying to bring it into the country , they will take it off you.


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## spog (30/5/11)

Filby said:


> Yer I hate those employers who built their business and pay my wages. **** em! We should screw them for every cent and working condition till they go broke and we can..ugh..end up unemployed....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Golani51 (30/5/11)

spog said:


> and what are the wharfies wanting now? more for less.i got sacked once for refusing to join,my boss was theatened with being shut down if i did,nt go... anyway the 2 union wankers turn the town upside down with thier denands then went up the coast to try it on elsewhere...the union boss and his knuckle dragging offsider got the shit slapped out of them when they pissed the wrong bloke of (yep one bloke) so they chartered a plane to fly themselves back to adelaide,and i wonder where the money came from to pay for the plane.........cheers......spog.......



Bloody miracle they have kept thier lazy grubby hands of microbrewers. Where would we be if there was a strike??

One time when my grandparents had a material factory, a union rep came in to the factory and threatened her if they didn't drop the wages. Apparently my grandfather believed in paying people what they were worth and payed too much (work hard and get paid well mentality- who does he think he is!!??!!). Anyway, the rep said it was causing unrest in the other factories. My grandmother was old- school Aussie. Treat her well, she would open her home to you. Screw her over, and start running because if she catches you.......
She grabbed the shmock by the scruff of the neck and physically tossed him from the property, and threatened him should he ever come back. Pussy. He never did and that was that. Welcome to our unions.


----------



## pbrosnan (30/5/11)

2. Taking a bit of a liberty with the constitution there. What about the first part part, "It being necessary" etc? Anyway most of us, particularly the police, are fairly happy with not having a heavily armed general population.

3. The only state sponsored racism here is towards the Aborigines. The govt. recently suspended the Racial Equality Act so it could quarantine Aboriginal incomes. Aboriginal society today is trying hard to get back on it's feet after 200 odd years of having the absolute crap beaten out of it. During the 1990s, as the result of a High Court decision the legal fiction that maintained the Australia was empty of human society at "discovery" was overturned which gave Aboriginal people property rights of their traditional country for the first time. Moves are now afoot to amend our constitution to acknowledge prior ownership. It's a very slow process, Aboriginal people have been rendered almost invisible by whites. At least the Native Americans have had a place in US popular culture for some time even if it was mostly as villains.


----------



## booargy (30/5/11)

We can thank the unions (mainly BLF)for The Rocks in Sydney, Victoria street in Potts Point With the locals they stopped the destruction of our heritage by the greed of development. Yes they did let developments go ahead. "But they were just thugs" and the developers didn't have thugs? do a search on the green bans. 
I have seen stand over tactics by unions and companies. Same smell different shit. 
Could be wrong but is it not The UNITED States of America. Does the president not give a state of the union address. 
You see unions are a great thing.


----------



## brett mccluskey (30/5/11)

Lecterfan said:


> :lol:


  :lol:


----------



## Phoney (30/5/11)

The unions historically gave us a LOT to be thankful for. A 5 day working week, 8 hour working days (That's why we Aussies celebrate Labour day), most of our benefits like sick pay, holiday pay, bereavement leave etc. Read up on how working conditions in Australia (and the UK etc) were like in the 19th & early 20th century before the birth of the labour movement, things have improved immensely - particularly for low skilled workers and it wasnt solely due to employers miraculously gaining compassion over time...They've basically had to meet and negotiate with the unions and cut deals on behalf of the workers who previously didnt have a voice for fear of being thrown out. Yes, they're probably not as relevant these days as they were 50 or 100 years ago, but I'll always respect them for what they once stood for and have achieved.. That said, they've also had their fair share of negatives too. eg: The White Australia policy was borne out of the union movement for fear of Asians flooding in to work the cane fields for lower pay & poorer conditions and hence take all of the white mans jobs.

I read about people like spog having bad experiences with union "thugs" in construction sites etc these days, and lets face it, there are a lot of thugs working in those kinds of workplaces too. But it isnt like this everywhere. I work for the government and the CPSU is quite a highly respected organization in my workplace, as is the Police union, teachers union, firefighters union, the AMA etc...


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## Online Brewing Supplies (31/5/11)

I knew our new American members questions where going to inflate peoples responses. He could have just googled the info and saved 10 + pages of ....
We all have our political opinions but this isnt the forum to voice them on.
The forum has not become a better place from all this non brewing related talk.

GB


----------



## Golani51 (31/5/11)

phoneyhuh said:


> The unions historically gave us a LOT to be thankful for. A 5 day working week, 8 hour working days (That's why we Aussies celebrate Labour day), most of our benefits like sick pay, holiday pay, bereavement leave etc. Read up on how working conditions in Australia (and the UK etc) were like in the 19th & early 20th century before the birth of the labour movement, things have improved immensely - particularly for low skilled workers and it wasnt solely due to employers miraculously gaining compassion over time...They've basically had to meet and negotiate with the unions and cut deals on behalf of the workers who previously didnt have a voice for fear of being thrown out. Yes, they're probably not as relevant these days as they were 50 or 100 years ago, but I'll always respect them for what they once stood for and have achieved.. That said, they've also had their fair share of negatives too. eg: The White Australia policy was borne out of the union movement for fear of Asians flooding in to work the cane fields for lower pay & poorer conditions and hence take all of the white mans jobs.
> 
> I read about people like spog having bad experiences with union "thugs" in construction sites etc these days, and lets face it, there are a lot of thugs working in those kinds of workplaces too. But it isnt like this everywhere. I work for the government and the CPSU is quite a highly respected organization in my workplace, as is the Police union, teachers union, firefighters union, the AMA etc...



The police union??Respected?? Look at the moron leader who got busted for being corrupt and got off free. Just read the story of the Boston Brewery and tell me the unions are anything but crims using legal power to push their own agendas. How many people 'disappeared' thanks t the unions? I have seen the 'wonderful' work they did overseas. A lot of people have lost a ot of money (people who couldn't afford to) just because of these bullies.


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## Tim F (31/5/11)

phoneyhuh said:


> I read about people like spog having bad experiences with union "thugs" in construction sites etc these days, and lets face it, there are a lot of thugs working in those kinds of workplaces too. But it isnt like this everywhere. I work for the government and the CPSU is quite a highly respected organization in my workplace


Really? I couldn't stand the miserable, whinging, inneffective, wannabe political bastards any longer and stopped paying them. I'm a big believer in unions to help negotiate conditions and provide support but the CPSU objects to everything that is reasonable just for the sake of it, then sends blanket emails spouting how good they are when they have achieved absolutely nothing, then when it comes to the crunch they can't even negotiate us a raise that makes up for inflation since the last one and even then it is offset by us having to make 'productivity gains'.


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## colonel (31/5/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?


There's one in my front yard right now, and probably45-50 over the road. (and a few dead ones on the road).


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## Ducatiboy stu (31/5/11)

Golani51 said:


> It is also illegal in the US. If customs catch you trying to bring it into the country , they will take it off you.



Vegemite IS NOT illegal in the US. Yuo can actually buy it over there. The story was a newspaper beat-up, as oer usual from our rather useless newspaper journoś


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## EMalmgren (1/6/11)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I knew our new American members questions where going to inflate peoples responses. He could have just googled the info and saved 10 + pages of ....
> We all have our political opinions but this isnt the forum to voice them on.
> The forum has not become a better place from all this non brewing related talk.
> 
> GB



Nor has this thread become any better from your post.

And I like to think that someone in charge here doesnt mind this thread, as it still exists.

I also like to think that other people besides myself have learned a thing or two.

Great post


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## HoppingMad (1/6/11)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Vegemite IS NOT illegal in the US. Yuo can actually buy it over there. The story was a newspaper beat-up, as oer usual from our rather useless newspaper journoś



Think you're right Ducati, I know people in the US who get it too (it's made by Kraft afterall - a US company). It's actually been removed from sale in Denmark, along with Marmite and Ovaltine apparently. That country has strict conditions on goods with vitamins added to them.

Vegemite Banned in Denmark Article

I think threads like this are good. Often I guess we forget about our national identity and what goes on in our country until someone from overseas chats to us about it. It's in the offtopic area so I don't see too many issues. 

Cheers,

Hopper.


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## staggalee (1/6/11)

EMalmgren said:


> How many of you have actually seen a Kangaroo in the wild? Is it fairly common or not so much?










They are very easy to tame lf you get the right one, here`s Big Red when we entered him in the Marsupial Magic Mile, won by 3 lengths!!
Sadly, he was hit by a cattle truck and spread all over the Stuart Highway shortly after his last win


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## Golani51 (1/6/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I knew our new American members questions where going to inflate peoples responses. He could have just googled the info and saved 10 + pages of ....
> We all have our political opinions but this isnt the forum to voice them on.
> The forum has not become a better place from all this non brewing related talk.
> 
> GB



Fine. I'll be the one then.......Has anyone come across Vegemite in a beer recipe?? Now it is more beerish


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## Golani51 (1/6/11)

EMalmgren said:


> I knew our new American members questions where going to inflate peoples responses. He could have just googled the info and saved 10 + pages of ....
> We all have our political opinions but this isnt the forum to voice them on.
> The forum has not become a better place from all this non brewing related talk.
> 
> GB



Fine. I'll be the one then.......Has anyone come across Vegemite in a beer recipe?? Now it is more beerish


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## Liam_snorkel (1/6/11)

no, that's beer related. 

only _non_ beer related topics are to be discussed in this forum:


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## Liam_snorkel (9/6/11)

Back on the topic of drop bears, I recently saw this public notice up on a wall at Magnetic Island.


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## pdilley (9/6/11)

THE AUSTRALIA THAT I KNEW

When the shearing sheds are silent and the stock camps fallen quiet 
When the gidgee coals no longer glow across the outback night 
And the bush is forced to hang a sign, ' gone broke and wont be back'
And spirits fear to find a way beyond the beaten track 

When harvesters stand derelict upon the wind swept plains 
And brave hearts pin their hopes no more on chance of loving rains 
When a hundred outback settlements are ghost towns overnight 
When we've lost the drive and heart we had to once more see us right 

When 'Pioneer' means a stereo and 'Digger' some backhoe 
And the 'Outback' is behind the house there's nowhere else to go
And 'Anzac' is a biscuit brand and probably foreign owned 
And education really means brainwashed and neatly cloned

When you have to bake a loaf of bread to make a decent crust 
And our heritage once enshrined in gold is crumbling to dust 
And old folk pay their camping fees on land for which they fought 
And fishing is a great escape; this is until you're caught 

When you see our kids with yankee caps and resentment in their eyes 
And the soaring crime and hopeless hearts is no longer a surprise 
When the name of RM Williams is a yuppie clothing brand 
Not a product of our heritage that grew off the land 

When offering a hand makes people think you'll amputate 
And two dogs meeting in the street is what you call a 'Mate' 
When 'Political Correctness' has replaced all common sense 
When you're forced to see it their way, there's no sitting on the fence 

Yes one day you might find yourself an outcast in this land 
Perhaps your heart will tell you then, ' I should have made a stand'
Just go and ask the farmers that should remove all doubt 
Then join the swelling ranks who say, ' don't sell Australia out'! 

_By Chris Long_

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## spog (9/6/11)

oh so true,.......cheers.........spog.........


Brewer Pete said:


> THE AUSTRALIA THAT I KNEW
> 
> When the shearing sheds are silent and the stock camps fallen quiet
> When the gidgee coals no longer glow across the outback night
> ...


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