# Gage Roads Little Dove - "New World" Pale Ale?



## capsicum (30/12/16)

There's a lot of froth  about this beer (in WA at least), which won champion Australian beer at 2016 AIBA. It's popping up on tap all over the place and tastes sensational out of the bottle too. I think it's great and would love to be able to brew something in the same style.

What exactly defines a "new world" pale ale? Is it just a marketing tag referring to the use of Australian/NZ hops or something more to it? It's an extremely fruity beer, smells a bit like the juice from the bottom of a fruit salad bowl. The Gage Roads website ("official") description is:

_Huge aroma of tropical nectar ranging from pineapple, to passionfruit, to guava. Sweetness from the tropical fruit character is perfectly balanced by robust bitterness._
_48 IBU, 25 EBC, 6.2% ABV_

Tried some googling but didn't turn up much that could help with a recipe.

Has anyone been contemplating a recipe for this? Hoping someone with a bit more experience than me has tasted it and can chip in! My initial rough thoughts are some combo of pale malt, crystal and munich, US05 or wyeast 1056 if I can get it, with amarillo/galaxy/citra (including shitloads of dry hopping)

http://gageroads.com.au/here/champion-australian-beer-little-dove/


----------



## rude (30/12/16)

Had it on tap at the Swan Yacht club the other day

Had about 4 middies at 6.4% with bucket loads of other beers of the usual standard (VB)

It was a work piss up didnt notice it on tap till later & what a beer loved it

Have to be ale malt, munich malt, crystal malts, as you said maybe a touch of wheat, carapils ?

Hops fark who knows have to have another go at it when sober


----------



## lost at sea (30/12/16)

Wouldnt those figures put it in the IPA realms?


----------



## capsicum (30/12/16)

lost at sea said:


> Wouldnt those figures put it in the IPA realms?


Yeah - I have seen it described as an IPA and also an american pale but I don't know if I'd say it's "pale" - isn't 25 EBC the top end for pales?

I found this too:
_The Australian International Beer Awards has also seen a new addition to the honours list in 2016 with the New World Pale Ale Trophy, which recognizes brews distinguished by the prominent and evident use of New World hops predominantly from New Zealand and Australia, in response to increased entries of the style over the last few years._

_“RASV, along with our advisory groups, continually assesses and evolves the categories within our awards programmes to reflect industry trends, production techniques and consumer interest,” said Mark O’Sullivan, CEO, RASV. Both awards are now open for entry, with the ADSA to be judged in April, followed by the AIBA to be assessed in May._
http://www.rasv.com.au/news/News_AIBA_ADSA_2016_new_trophies/

Little Dove took out this category as well as champion australian beer.


----------



## Diesel80 (30/12/16)

I got onto a single one of these 1st week that they were released in packaged form. Rare as a hens tooth, and about as $$$ too.
Tasted like fruit punch, hated it.

Whilst I could appreciate that it was well made, to me it is not in line with my personal tastes.
But to each their own.

Bloody smooth drinking for a 6%+ though, hats off to the brewers for that.

Cheers,
D80


----------



## Danscraftbeer (30/12/16)

Sounds like my kind of beer I hope I get to try it.


----------



## Meddo (30/12/16)

Uncle Dan has them here in Queensland, so presumably elsewhere too. I'm no flavour profiler but I certainly picked up guava in it. Not my favourite but better than many. Sorry no advice to give re cloning, except that from memory I read somewhere it had Australian, NZ and German hops in it, although take that with a grain of salt since I can't find the reference for it now - may have been some other beer


----------



## Chridech (30/12/16)

Fortunately I've had the opportunity to sample quite a few lately.... hic! Most agree it's best from the tap. Pretty certain there's a swag of Galaxy in Little Dove. I get a tonne of passionfruit flavour. As it's termed a New World rather than an Australian Pale Ale, I'd also say there's a NZ flavour/aroma hop in there as well, perhaps Riwaka. As for the grain bill I certainly think there is some crystal in there, as there is a sweetness to it. Possibly some Munich and/or Vienna as well. Some of its detractors have complained that it's too sweet. At 6.2% you can take your pick as to whether it's a Pale Ale or IPA. Because of the crystal malt presence and that fact that it's not overly bitter i think it sits nicely as a Pale Ale.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles (30/12/16)

I think they might be trying to keep out of the "Pacific Ale" fight, which I understand, but calling this "new world" makes no sense to me.

Historically Europe / Asia / North Africa were the old world and the Americas were the new world. I can understand having Oz / NZ as part of the new world, that's the common distinction used in wine where "new world" refers to areas other than the traditional Euro growing zones. If they are trying to say that the Americas are not part of the new world that's just historically ignorant.


----------



## Danscraftbeer (30/12/16)

Oz and NZ the new world order. I like that.
Oops. I mean just hops. Its a matter of fact basically. Hops are different down under. Tazy getting some of the best results too etc.


----------



## Chridech (30/12/16)

As per the the Gage Roads spin "Little Dove" is translation for the Dutch "Duyfken", the name of the Dutch-built ship which is credited with the first European voyage to reach Australia. A replica of the Duyfken is docked in Fremantle. As LC points out 'the New World', mostly refers to the Americas. Perhaps an Aus/Nz hopped beer would be better termed an 'Antipodean Ale'? As for the 'third world', that's an economic rather than historical/geographic classification; but who knows we may still become a Banana Republic yet!


----------



## Danscraftbeer (30/12/16)

Antipodean? It doesn't really roll of the tongue.
So that's what we accumulate too. I've never actually heard that word before by memory. :chug:


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles (30/12/16)

I call mine "Çanakkale" but I like cryptic crosswords.

There may be a climatic reason for southern hemisphere hops being different: because the Coriolis effect on the return currents from the arctic / antarctic subduction zones create warming currents which affect the west coasts of the major northern land masses, equivalent climatic areas are at much higher latitudes there than they are here.

Are there many hops grown in Sewth Effrica?


----------



## manticle (30/12/16)

I can I can't


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles (30/12/16)

The Ç is pronounced "ch" but I can't get the forum software to reproduce a cedilla.


Edit: Yes I can


----------



## manticle (30/12/16)

Not familiar with league of gentlemen?


----------



## manticle (30/12/16)

Cedilla comes up on my screen by the way.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles (30/12/16)

Yeah, fixed it.

I haven't seen "League of Gentlemen" for years and I have a peculiar lack of narrative memory: I forget movies, TV, books etc etc within days but retain anything numerical or mathematical for years.


----------



## manticle (30/12/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> The Ç is pronounced "ch" but I can't get the forum software to reproduce a cedilla.
> 
> 
> Edit: Yes I can


See?

I can I can't.


----------



## kocken42 (12/2/17)

I'll be attempting a crack at a clone this weekend with my brother who loves it (probably because he has shares in Gage Roads (poor bloke)).

94% ale malt
6% crystal dark

2g/l Galaxy @ 10 min - 22.70 IBU
2g/l Brooklyn (Moutere) @ 10 min - 27.55 IBU
1.4g/l Galaxy @ Flameout
1.4g/L Brooklyn @ Flameout
1.4g/l Galaxy @ Dry hop (5 days)
1.4g/l Brooklyn @ Dry hop (5 days)

US05 yeast

Mash @ 67 deg C

50 IBU, 25 EBC

Please let me know if you have any suggestions...

Will let you know how it goes.


----------



## Danscraftbeer (13/2/17)

My Little Pony said:


> I'll be attempting a crack at a clone this weekend with my brother who loves it (probably because he has shares in Gage Roads (poor bloke)).
> 
> 94% ale malt
> 6% crystal dark
> ...


So I assume there is some insider knowledge to this clone attempt? Little Dove is a nice smoother style IPA I'd love to make something close to it too.
Brooklyn Hops I'll have to get me some of them they sound good.


----------



## rude (13/2/17)

What about munich malt surely there is some of that in there ???


----------



## kocken42 (13/2/17)

rude said:


> What about munich malt surely there is some of that in there ???


Yeah I had some Vienna in my original recipe...

I'd agree that the beer is malty sweet, but it isn't heavy imho, which kind of put me off trying to overdo the grain bill with speciality malts. 

I could be convinced though as in general I would make a more well balanced grain bill.


----------



## TheWiggman (16/2/17)

Drinking this now. 4 different malts, 4 different hops. Caramel malt noted in the blurb. At a guess I'd say 15% Vienna, sprinkling of lighter crystal and maybe Munich. I personally reckon Gladfields Redback malt would be very well placed if attempting to emulate, quite possibly in it. 
Hops-wise I'm not getting Galaxy. Could be any blend of modern hop but I'm betting they're locally grown varieties, like Ella, Summer, NZ fruity varieties etc.


----------



## kocken42 (19/2/17)

Thanks for the info guys. I'll definitely take it into consideration for the next attempt.

I put this down yesterday.

I was told there is no more galaxy left? So subbed for Citra. 

Also did a small first wort hop addition of Brooklyn. 

Made plenty of mistakes with my mash. Efficiency went down the pooper. Only hit 65 deg C. 

I'm going to write this one off as an American IPA. It's still smelling and tasting delicious, but a bit off from what I was aiming for.

Live and learn. 

I'm not sure if anyone has teamed Citra and Brooklyn (moutere) before, and I really think they make a good couple. The Brooklyn softens the citrus character of the Citra and brings with it some nice mango and melon. 

Until next time.


----------



## SCR29 (19/2/17)

Not tried it yet, but will look now. is it slightly dryer than your typical IPA, if so maybe they used some Gladfields supanova, just a thought


----------



## droid (19/2/17)

I reckon it has munich in it could be one of the cara-munich's and possibly vienna - my dopplebock was munich and vienna and there's something familiar about this beer

It's pretty malty sweet, I was surprised it was 6.2% especially with the name little dove


----------



## capsicum (19/2/17)

This is what I tried, turned out quite nice but not similar to the real thing.


Fermentables

Amount

Fermentable

PPG

°L

Bill %

4 kg

American - Pale Ale

37

3.5

78.4%

0.2 kg

German - Pale Wheat

39

1.5

3.9%

0.5 kg

German - CaraMunich I

34

39

9.8%

0.3 kg

United Kingdom - Crystal 15L

34

15

5.9%

0.1 kg

Passionfruit

5

0

2%

*5.1 kg*

*Total*







Hops

Amount

Variety

Type

AA

Use

Time

IBU

20 g

Chinook

Pellet

13

Boil

60 min

31.86

10 g

Citra

Pellet

11

Boil

30 min

10.36

15 g

Citra

Pellet

11

Boil

1 min

0.87

20 g

Galaxy

Pellet

14.25

Aroma

1 min

1.51

45 g

Galaxy

Pellet

14.25

Dry Hop

0 days



The name comes from a shipwreck off the WA coast called the Duyfken, which allegedly translates to "Little Dove" from Dutch.


----------



## Lionman (22/2/17)

Love this beer. One of the best around at the moment in my opinion. Gage Roads have a really nice line up currently.

There doesn't seem to be much details around but from brewers interviews it sounds like there's a few malts, and NZ and Aussie hops used. I would love to make a beer even in the ballpark at home.


----------



## kocken42 (25/2/17)

I dare say I'm going to commit a fair bit of time getting close.


----------

