# Which BIAB Starter Kit?



## Bob_Loblaw (3/11/15)

Hi All

I've been kit and extract brewing for a few years now and my current setup is as follows:


Kit or Extract with flavouring hops added in a boil (sometimes will steep some grains beforehand)
Fermenting Fridge with STC-1000 temp controller
Keg Fridge using 19L cornelius kegs
I'm looking to supplement the above set up by making a foray into all grain BIAB brewing. The starter kits on the Cheeky Peak Website seem like great value for what is included. These are the kits I'm looking at:

*23ltr Complete Starter Kit - $482*

http://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/everything-mashing/all-grain-starter-kits/product/976-23ltr-complete-all-grain-starter-kit-brew-in-a-bag-biab-gas-heated

*32ltr Complete Starter Kit - $550*

http://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/everything-mashing/all-grain-starter-kits/product/974-32ltr-complete-all-grain-starter-kit-brew-in-a-bag-biab-gas-heated

I'm only looking to do 23ltr batches as I have 19ltr kegs and the rest I will usually bottle, so the 23ltr kit is quite attractive at that price, but it seems the only (and perhaps significant) difference between the two other than size is the sandwich base. As I understand it the bigger kit has three layers in the base that will potentially stop burning and provide better heat distribution.

I already have a brew area set aside in my shed with a pulley system set up to pull the bag out of the pot, so based on my setup above my thoughts are that a kit is the only thing I need now.


Is it worth paying the $68 for the bigger kit with the better base?
Or should I just go for the smaller one knowing that I'll never want to brew larger than 23ltrs and just keep an eye on heating or add a perforated base later?
Does anyone know of any better deals on BIAB starter kits?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers


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## Diesel80 (3/11/15)

Larger one for sure.
This seems a very convenient but expensive way to get into gas fired biab.

Build your own for the best bang for buck.

If you want I will pm you what I got when I started and will price in today's money for you.



Cheers
D80.


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## Nurple (3/11/15)

I got this 50ltr kit and love it!

Tho I wish I got a bigger pot than the 71ltr so I could do full volume mashes


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## Diesel80 (3/11/15)

Nurple said:


> I got this 50ltr kit and love it!
> 
> Tho I wish I got a bigger pot than the 71ltr so I could do full volume mashes


How do you even get that boiling? Does it take long?
2200W seems under gunned for boiling a double batch (or does it have 2 elements?)

Cheers,
D80


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## earle (3/11/15)

Are you committed to gas? If you're happy with 23l batches you could get an urn, a bag and make yourself a copper immersion chiller and still have money left over.


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## Bob_Loblaw (3/11/15)

earle said:


> Are you committed to gas? If you're happy with 23l batches you could get an urn, a bag and make yourself a copper immersion chiller and still have money left over.


Definitely not committed to gas. I actually had a look at the 36ltr temp controlled one for this reason:

http://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/everything-mashing/all-grain-starter-kits/product/1279-36ltr-all-grain-starter-kit-brew-in-a-bag-biab-electric-heated-temp-controlled

The reason I'm looking at kits is because I want something that will be proven out of the box and an almost all in one package. Storage space is a bit of an issue.


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## mxd (3/11/15)

there is this one as well
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88340-keg-king-robobrew-35l-single-vessel-brewery/

I would look at "creating" one myself if $$ is an issue.


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## mosto (3/11/15)

Been a few years since I put my setup together, and I waited until parts came on sale to minimize cost, but a quick look at current prices from all the suppliers I used and the total comes to around $275. Mine is an electric powered 38L pot, which I get 20ish L from.


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## Nurple (3/11/15)

Diesel80 said:


> How do you even get that boiling? Does it take long?
> 2200W seems under gunned for boiling a double batch (or does it have 2 elements?)
> 
> Cheers,
> D80


They ended up putting two in, one copper and the other stainless.

I haven't bothered timing how long it takes to get to the boil because its not noticeable.


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## Bob_Loblaw (3/11/15)

mxd said:


> there is this one as well
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88340-keg-king-robobrew-35l-single-vessel-brewery/
> 
> I would look at "creating" one myself if $$ is an issue.


This one actually looks pretty good. I might look into this further.


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## Bribie G (3/11/15)

A 40L Crown urn is a great "turn key" brewery out of the box and handles 23L perfectly. If you want to do double batches it's possible to do two end to end runs in about 6 hours if you have an over the side immersion heater as well (about $120).

That way you can either speed up the temperature ramping of the strike water and the wort doing a single batch, or do a double batch in less time by having strike water ready to go for the second batch.

Gas is great for a quick heat source but from what I've gathered on the forum it's way more expensive than electricity in the long run, I worked it out that if I'd gone gas originally 7 years ago, by now it could have paid for three urns.


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## hathro (3/11/15)

Grab an urn: http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=80


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## Diesel80 (3/11/15)

hathro said:


> Grab an urn: http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=80


That bag and awning pulley look familiar!

Cheers,
D80


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## indica86 (3/11/15)

Crown Urn from NHB https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/beer/brewing-equipment-pots-and-hardware/crown-urn-40l-with-concealed-element grab a tap and a bag and some grain and get the strainer with it. 
Buy a jerry can, go no chill.


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## Dazzbrew (3/11/15)

http://www.brewman.com.au/web/showproduct.asp?prodid=926

check out this electric biab kit


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## Barge (3/11/15)

Bribie G said:


> or do a double batch in less time by having strike water ready to go for the second batch.


I'm probably missing something obvious but how can you get strike water ready to go if the urn is being used to boil the first batch. Wouldn't it just be a case of draining to a cube, refilling the urn and then starting the second batch from the start, with no time saved?


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## tavas (3/11/15)

I would suggest going as big as you can afford. You will find that spending all that time to make 23 litres is a pain, when for the same time you can make 46 litres (or more).


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## Bribie G (3/11/15)

Barge said:


> I'm probably missing something obvious but how can you get strike water ready to go if the urn is being used to boil the first batch. Wouldn't it just be a case of draining to a cube, refilling the urn and then starting the second batch from the start, with no time saved?


Over the side 2.2 kw element. Although it's around an extra hundred it's a brilliant workhorse if you want to move things along. Normally I don't bother as an extra hour is no problem, but I've done the odd double batch and it's a good backup if time is at a premium.

Couple of Bunnings handi pails for the strike water, if you use hot water system water, it's a fairly quick ramp up. Combined with ramping up the strike water for the original batch then ramping the mash to mashout, then ramping the wort to the boil it's a real timesaver. Then the second lot of strike water can be started during the hour boil.

The urn can handle a rolling boil all by itself but injecting 4600 watts into the system certainly hurries things along


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## Barge (4/11/15)

I get it. You heat the strike water in the pail using the OTS element. 

Bugger. I just built a kettle with 2 big w kettle elements in it. Ramp times are great but no separate strike water for me.

I was thinking about heating some water and running it into an esky to use as preheated sparge water. I could probably do the same but keep for 2nd batch strike water.


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## Bribie G (4/11/15)

Historical note. In the UK back in the 70s when AG came in we mostly used brew buckets o death. 
Being only about 25 L you couldn't do a full mash so you did the sparge water first and ran it into a handy bucket then got stuck into the strike water. 

I just used the fermentor but of course an esky would work far better. 

You can easily keep the second strike water hot by touching it up with an electric kettle as you're only going to lose a few degrees. 

You're not actually saving time if you think about it but what you can do is flick on the boiler early and do something useful rather than being tied up with the system later in the brew.


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## geesexar (4/11/15)

i bought a cheeky peak 71lt gas fired BIAB to do 50lt batches...the kettle only holds 65lts so im maxing it out to do 50 lt batches...get as big as you can afford, if i had my time again i would go 68 lt setup


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## Bob_Loblaw (4/11/15)

tavas said:


> I would suggest going as big as you can afford. You will find that spending all that time to make 23 litres is a pain, when for the same time you can make 46 litres (or more).


But what would I do with that additional 23ltrs? I only have 3 kegs and I'm not terribly keen to buy any more yet. And the reason I got into kegging was to avoid the pain of cleaning and storing bottles (there may or may not have been an incident involving a 4wd backing out of the garage and sending about 100 bottles crashing onto the driveway).

I guess I could store any excess in a secondary fermenter which I can get from Bunnings, but then I have to worry about storage temps, space etc.

I just can't see myself brewing more than 23ltrs at a time.


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## sponge (4/11/15)

You say that now, but the day will probably come..

Even just to get two brews out of a single day, depending upon time constraints.

It's easy enough doing smaller batches in bigger pots, but near impossible to do double batches in a small pot (without two boils, etc).

Fill a cube with the rest and leave it til you're ready to ferment at your own convenience.


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## Diesel80 (4/11/15)

Sponge has it sussed. My experience 100%. Currently I have 2 20l cubes of wort from 10 days ago sitting in a large esky in the shade in the shed. When ready I can pitch one or both of these. 2 kegs getting gassed now. Will pitch them when I start on the kegs. In 4 to 5 week's when kegs are foaming, 2 more will be ready 

Same brewday length, twice the output.

Cheers,
D80


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## Bob_Loblaw (5/11/15)

I get what you're all saying, but I've been brewing extract at 23ltr batches for a few years now and just don't have the inclination (or the infrastructure) to do any larger batches, so I'm really leaning towards the Keg King Robo Brew at $449-

If like you all suggest, I start wanting bigger batches from my brew day, I guess I can sell the Robo Brew and use the proceeds towards a bigger system. Keg King have indicated that they'll be releasing bigger all in one brewery systems soon, so I have to assume they'll be available should I decide to go bigger.

Really appreciate the thoughts and advice from all in here.


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## dropbear85 (6/11/15)

Bob_Loblaw said:


> I get what you're all saying, but I've been brewing extract at 23ltr batches for a few years now and just don't have the inclination (or the infrastructure) to do any larger batches, so I'm really leaning towards the Keg King Robo Brew at $449-
> 
> If like you all suggest, I start wanting bigger batches from my brew day, I guess I can sell the Robo Brew and use the proceeds towards a bigger system. Keg King have indicated that they'll be releasing bigger all in one brewery systems soon, so I have to assume they'll be available should I decide to go bigger.
> 
> Really appreciate the thoughts and advice from all in here.


You won't regret getting a Robobrew. They are a great bit of kit for the price. For a beginner all grain brewer they are better value than an urn as you get a digital thermostat, dual elements, malt basket and a chiller. 
Add a pump and an overflow and you basically have a grainfather for half the price


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## Bribie G (6/11/15)

Now there's one that snuck in under the radar. Looking at that malt pipe you should get a grain bed happening, so if you raise it very gradually using a pulley and skyhook you can jug wort out of the tap and sprinkle it on the grain surface then according to your recipe finish off with a few litres of sparge water and end up with fairly clear wort for the boil, without going into getting a pump etc.

Nowt wrong with jugging if the equipment is suitable, guy who regularly took out prizes in the Nationals with his lagers and Pilsners did it all the time, I was the jug slave at one of his brew days and it works a treat.

ed: does anyone know if they are prepared to do a version without the chiller?


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## thylacine (6/11/15)

Nurple said:


> I got this 50ltr kit and love it!
> 
> Tho I wish I got a bigger pot than the 71ltr so I could do full volume mashes


I do "full volume" mashes in a 30L pot. And used to do f/v in a 19L pot. 

Do I want 80 litres from one recipe, or 40L each from two recipes, or 20L each from four recipes, etc.

Currently my beer fridges contain long necks from twenty-four different recipes. I enjoy brewing & drinking a variety of beer.

I also have the time...

Cheers


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## Diesel80 (6/11/15)

thylacine said:


> I do "full volume" mashes in a 30L pot. And used to do f/v in a 19L pot.
> 
> Do I want 80 litres from one recipe, or 40L each from two recipes, or 20L each from four recipes, etc.
> 
> ...


The larger volume argument is basically in regards to Output for Hours invested.
If you have bags of free time and wish to invest it in this hobby, golden!
If you have kids (two under 2 here) and your brewing time is rare as rocking horse shit, then 1 brew done over 4 hours once every other month just will not cut it.
2 brews done in 4 hours, 100% more for no extra effort...... then you are half a chance.

You can't rush the ferment, so if you don't brew enough to ferment / package in line with what you drink, then you basically may as well go buy beers for variety.
Incidentally, you can get two different beers from 1 single double batch brew. You just need to think outside the box (or inside the cube).
I do it every time, 1 English, 1 American ale, 1 brew day 

Each to their own.

Cheers,
D80


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## sponge (6/11/15)

Plenty easy to get 4 different beers from a quad system (for eg) by adding different hops, yeast and steeped spec malts to each cube. 

Stout, APA, ESB and schwarzbier from a single brew sesh? Absolutely.


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## Barge (6/11/15)

Bribie G said:


> Nowt wrong with jugging if the equipment is suitable, guy who regularly took out prizes in the Nationals with his lagers and Pilsners did it all the time, I was the jug slave at one of his brew days and it works a treat.


Any details, please? I'm waiting on a pump but was going to try this next week.

Jug size?
Number of jugs recirculated?
Bag or malt pipe?


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## Bribie G (6/11/15)

Yup, Lyall is the name of the gent, and he did a fairly standard 3v. As the wort drained from the mash tun down to the boiler, he would set the flow to such a rate that it could be run into a jug (just a couple of Big W 1.5 L plastic kitchen jugs) and then sprinkled back onto the top of the mash. After maybe ten jugs it was obvious that the wort was running a lot clearer as a grain bed formed and filtering was happening.

Then he opened the tap fully and the clear wort was just allowed to run unhindered into the kettle. Now, being a 3v there was a' spargin', so the measured amount of sparge water was jugged over the top of the grain bed in such a way as to minimise channeling and the wort collected until it was at its "limit" according to a refrac reading. Being an old hand he had a good idea anyway of when that point was reached.

Using a malt pipe the above would be easy. As the Keg King system is a tad smaller than an urn, I'd be tempted to do the Braumeister mash plus a small sparge to get as much goodies out as possible, considering that bag squeezing is not an option.


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