# Metallic tang in my brew



## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

Pretty sure I've copped an infection here...
Brewed a brow porter a few weeks ago and when i bottled it it had a strong metallic tang to it, didnt think much of it at first but 3 weeks on and the taste is still there.
Brewed an IPA soon after and bottled it today, smelt and tasted fantastic throughout the ferment but come bottling it had the same tang... not as strong as the porter but still there.
Ive since bleached the sh#t out of all my gear and now have an Aussie lager mashing away as I type.
Anyone had a similar taste/smell?


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## Dunkelbrau (4/1/15)

What is your process for sanitation?

Do you have any brass fittings? 

What was the ferment temp?

Is it medicinal, metallic or solventy?


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## droid (4/1/15)

is it the same metallic taste that is sometimes on the top of the stubby of a commercial bottle?

any new steel gear or problems with water?


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## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

Dunkelbrau said:


> What is your process for sanitation?
> 
> Do you have any brass fittings?
> 
> ...


Starsan for sanitising, No brass, 18*C, definitely metallic taste.
these last two brews are the first time this has occurred.


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## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

droid said:


> is it the same metallic taste that is sometimes on the top of the stubby of a commercial bottle?
> 
> any new steel gear or problems with water?


Nah not the same, much stronger.
water here is pretty good but I have just recently bought and am using some new camlock fittings... (from china)...
I thought i washed and sanitised them pretty well but could they be the problem?


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## manticle (4/1/15)

Most common cause is metal contamination in the brewhouse. Does the use of the new fittings coincide with the appearance of the flavour?


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## Sambrew (4/1/15)

Bet on the cam locks, metals from china are not usually what they say they are. i.e: sold as stainless but really just chromed brass- and that will give you a metallic flavour for sure.


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## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

manticle said:


> Most common cause is metal contamination in the brewhouse. Does the use of the new fittings coincide with the appearance of the flavour?





Sambrew said:


> Bet on the cam locks, metals from china are not usually what they say they are. i.e: sold as stainless but really just chromed brass- and that will give you a metallic flavour for sure.


I think you guys are right, the appearence of the metallic taste coincides with when I got the new fittings... well that sucks because I've just brewed again today and its on the boil now, oh well...
Having said that the taste doesn't come through till after it ferments, tastes fine going into the fermenter. hmmm


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## Sambrew (4/1/15)

might just be covered by other flavours till after fermentation. Be careful with Chinese (or cheap asian in general) metals as they are often recycled in small batches and can contain lead and other undesirables.


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## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

well I guess its what they say "you get what you pay for"
Looks like ill be chasing some new fittings


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## iambj (4/1/15)

OK, perhaps a long shot, were you by any chance using US Magnum?


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## michaeld16 (4/1/15)

Just out of curiosity i have a brass nipple inside my kettle and have never detected any mettalic off flavours, i would have prefered to use stainless but i ran out the brass piece i used was off a pump i had set up up for sonething else and gad been used for years i just cleaned it up a bit. This may sound dumb but would the metalic flavour that op is getting boil off eventually after a few brews


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## Dunkelbrau (4/1/15)

I think the big concern with brass is lead, you need to use a vinager/hydrogen peroxide solution to take any lead on the surface off (if you go too long it reveals more lead).


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## michaeld16 (4/1/15)

Another dumb question then does lead in the small percentage we could get in our brew go past the taste threshold and does the brass we would buy now contain lead.... a metelurgist i aint

Edit cant even spell metalurgist


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## Dunkelbrau (4/1/15)

michaeld16 said:


> Another dumb question then does lead in the small percentage we could get in our brew go past the taste threshold and does the brass we would buy now contain lead.... a metelurgist i aint
> 
> Edit cant even spell metalurgist


I'm not sure on any of that.. Anything is possible with Chinese imports haha

Either way, I would rather avoid it ;-)


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## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

iambj said:


> OK, perhaps a long shot, were you by any chance using US Magnum?


I always use Magnum to bitter, but never had a drama with it.


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## _Mick_ (4/1/15)

Dunkelbrau said:


> I think the big concern with brass is lead, you need to use a vinager/hydrogen peroxide solution to take any lead on the surface off (if you go too long it reveals more lead).


Interesting, might run some bleach/vinegar mix through it all to be on the safe side, 
I really hope this taste goes away, not particularly keen on replacing all these camlock fittings...
Would rather it have just been an infection and just replace the fermenter.


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## TheWiggman (4/1/15)

Once you're done take the fittings apart and have a look at them, if you see any signs of corrosion (which I would describe as a metallic taste) then that answers your question.
Considering the taste has lessened on the second brew there's also a chance that there was some sort of coating on the fittings that has come off since you've brewed. If this is the case then maybe by brew 3 the taste will have largely gone.
Also, do you use a copper chiller?

The country of origin of your fittings is probably not all that relevant as I'd bet most of our home brewing fittings are manufactured north of Aus.


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## Dunkelbrau (5/1/15)

I'd say quality of fittings us important, sure, China can produce quality, but it will cost similar to what you get from Aussie brew shops. Might as well give your money to a local brew shop as well!


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## _Mick_ (5/1/15)

Dunkelbrau said:


> I'd say quality of fittings us important, sure, China can produce quality, but it will cost similar to what you get from Aussie brew shops. Might as well give your money to a local brew shop as well!


Agreed, I'm usually an advocate for spending a couple of dollars more to support the local shop, and am now regretting not doing it in this case, time will tell if yesterday's brew cops the same problem. Tasted fine going into the fv but so did the others...


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## dicko (5/1/15)

_Mick_ said:


> I always use Magnum to bitter, but never had a drama with it.


How old is US Magnum?

Ageing hops can give an off flavour.


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## Sambrew (5/1/15)

Do a brew without the fittings to confirm before binning them.


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## _Mick_ (5/1/15)

Yeah, will do a trial brew for sure. 

Magnum is '13 crop but kept vacuum sealed and in the freezer, still seems fresh.


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## marksy (10/1/15)

Just get a hack saw and do a small slit to see what type of metal they are.


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## Brew Forky (10/1/15)

I just replaced a faulty SS ball valve and forgot to clean it. Mashing at the moment. What an Idiot. I'm also using Magnum to bitter. What is the issue with Magnum? I haven't heard that one before.


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## dr K (10/1/15)

One person's metallic is another's astringency. All of my brewin water has lots of iron and copper contact, it comes the tap and my tap water is neither astringent nor metallic.
_Mick_ reports that the unfermented wort tastes fine (yes it may be sweetness covering up all sorts of things).
barring infection the three major changes from unfermented wort to fermented beer are, an increase in alcohol, a decrease in sugar and a drop in pH.
A 5% alcohol solution at a pH of say 4.5 is good way to get metallic ions from iron or copper, but I strongly suspect that the beer was EDIT not stored in iron or copper vessels.
my money is on over sparging, high pH tap water, or most likely , a combination of the two...


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## Kodos (11/1/15)

Tina Panoutsas from CUB's sensory team showed us an impressive trick at ANCH if you suspect metal contamination in your beer.

Smear a few drops of the beer on the back of your hand, and give it a second. If it is actually metal causing the off-flavour, the smell will chance to full-on rust. The acids in your skin cause some sort of reaction - it's remarkable.

If you don't notice this change, you can rule out metal contamination and look for something that causes an off flavour *like* metallic.


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## Spiesy (11/1/15)

Fwiw, I have noticed a metallic/iron/blood taste in heaps of beers over the years, but only once has this been Homebrew. I'm talking commercial beers. From Cooper's to Squire's and so many other beers - local and imported. It was never consistent either, I.e. never 'this beer' always tastes like metal, it was more 'this bottle', 'this 6-pack' or 'this slab'. I started a thread on it a couple of years ago. 

In the end I put it down to storage. These beers were always from Dan Murphy's, where I shopped back then. I don't buy beer too much these days, but when I do, it's rarely at Dan's, and I haven't noticed it for a while. 

There's always the chance that I'm also very sensitive to this taste/fault, as I used to pick it quite regularly. Enough to make me stop buying beer from said retailer, right or wrong.


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## woodwormm (11/1/15)

very interesting to me.

i've almost condemned my Aluminium kettle due to metallic tastes in anything less than a hop monster.

my brewery is full of nickel coated brass valves and fittings. i like my kettle enough that i'll try to replace all the fitting for stainless before switching kettles...


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## Cervantes (12/1/15)

Just a thought, but would the beer actually spend enough time in contact with the camlok fittings to pick up any flavours?


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## dicko (13/1/15)

Brew Forky said:


> I just replaced a faulty SS ball valve and forgot to clean it. Mashing at the moment. What an Idiot. I'm also using Magnum to bitter. What is the issue with Magnum? I haven't heard that one before.


It is not only magnum but other high AA hops as well. POR is a classic as well when it gets a bit old. Commercially, West End Draught is full on metallic.

I have also found that if you are lightly hopping a beer and you have a chloride to sulphate ratio that is high in sulphate you may get a "metallic twang" in the beer. Or at least that is the way I percieve it.

The OP comes from Coffs Harbour so if he is using local water and boiling the chlorine out of it and then NOT adding extra spoon fulls of gypsum ( as some recommend) and there is no contact with iron / steel then hops is where I would be looking.
There is also other possiblities such as stale grain, unclean rain water, overdoing Starsan strength without rinsing, and the list could go on.
There is not a lot of info given in the first enquiry.


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## _Mick_ (14/1/15)

Definitely not the hops or grain, using coffs town water, never had an issue with it. 
Ive put it down to the new equipment, camlocks and pump not being washed properly before use. Ive transferred the 3rd brew, Since the problem started, into the secondary and the taste has gone.


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## Brew Forky (17/1/15)

dicko said:


> It is not only magnum but other high AA hops as well. POR is a classic as well when it gets a bit old. Commercially, West End Draught is full on metallic.
> 
> I have also found that if you are lightly hopping a beer and you have a chloride to sulphate ratio that is high in sulphate you may get a "metallic twang" in the beer. Or at least that is the way I percieve it.
> 
> ...


Very informative post Dicko. With th Starsan, if you mix it at the right dilution rate, should you have problems, or is it leaving too much "foam" around?


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## dicko (18/1/15)

Starsan mixed at the correct rate in clean water will not require rinsing and is quite safe in your beer..... But really, how many brewers actually measure the starsan at the recommended dose and use it in a neutral PH water to achieve the desired result.
Most tap water is laced with chlorine and is ultimately not suitable for the correct use of starsan.

On a funny but actually serious note, phosphoric acid (starsan) if overdone in concentration will cause all you teeth fillings to drop out if your teeth are subject to the drink that is high in acid content.


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## Brew Forky (18/1/15)

dicko said:


> On a funny but actually serious note, phosphoric acid (starsan) if overdone in concentration will cause all you teeth fillings to drop out if your teeth are subject to the drink that is high in acid content.


So if my fillings fall out, does that mean I can't hear Triple M in my head anymore? I probably wouldn't get the metallic taste in beer either. I know where the door is. I'll find my way out. All in jest Dicko, respect.


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## Grott (18/1/15)

dicko said:


> Starsan mixed at the correct rate in clean water will not require rinsing and is quite safe in your beer..... But really, how many brewers actually measure the starsan at the recommended dose and use it in a neutral PH water to achieve the desired result.
> Most tap water is laced with chlorine and is ultimately not suitable for the correct use of starsan.


I use the Diggers demineralised water (from Coles, 4 litres $3.12) and measure in the 6ml of starsan using a syringe bought from a chemist for bugger all. The 4 litres works out to under 1 cent per longneck with the solution used for everything that needs to be sanitised. 
Cheers


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## Mardoo (18/1/15)

So if I yank/erode my fillings out could I never hear Triple M again?


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## Brew Forky (18/1/15)

Mardoo said:


> So if I yank/erode my fillings out could I never hear Triple M again?


Fuckin way off topic:


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## Brew Forky (18/1/15)

grott said:


> I use the Diggers demineralised water (from Coles, 4 litres $3.12) and measure in the 6ml of starsan using a syringe bought from a chemist for bugger all. The 4 litres works out to under 1 cent per longneck with the solution used for everything that needs to be sanitised.
> Cheers


I measure mine with a syringe too but add puratap to the bottle at the right doses. Don't know what's in the Puratap water though as I'm not a chemist, but the bottle stays clearer than when I use tap water.


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## manticle (18/1/15)

Mardoo said:


> So if I yank/erode my fillings out could I never hear Triple M again?


I have no fillings and it's never on in my place. Coincidence? You be the judge.


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## Tony (18/1/15)

over carbonation?


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## dicko (19/1/15)

By the look of your avatar Tony, you may have overdone the starsan thing.


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## Brew Forky (20/1/15)

Tony said:


> over carbonation?


That is a good point and a lot of things went through my head, but in the OPs story, it happens before bottling.


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## Tony121 (6/3/17)

Thought I'd tack onto this thread as opposed to starting a new one.

I have had a smell/flavour in my last 2 brews that I think is medicinal though my wife tells me it is metallic - as she is always right I will run with metallic.

Only common things from my last 2 brews were water, the fermenter and the first batches on my new keggle. For the 3rd brew yesterday I used filtered water to hopefully rule that out and was also going to use a different fermenter.

However after I cleaned the keggle and let it sit upside down to drain, I tipped it up and caught a whiff of the smell/taste I've been getting in the beer. I stuck my head in but couldn't smell it again. From there, I boiled some water in it and tasted it - the metallic smell & taste were there.

To give a run down of my system, it is a 50L keg with the top cut out with a 3600w stainless steel mounted in a threaded socket that has been welded to the keg. Outlet/inlets are various SS fittings & ball valves connected using thread tape and silicone washers where needed. Wort recirculates via march pump with silicone hoses and cam locks. All equipment purchased from local suppliers and cleaned well prior to first use.

So to get to the point, I would appreciate any advice as to where to go from here?

Thanking all in advance.

Tony


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## mtb (6/3/17)

I'd "brew" a control first. By that I mean, with your full system, "mash" some water at 67C for 60min so you get the metallic tang.
Then remove a piece of the gear and try again, rinse, repeat. I'd suggest removing the pump/hoses/camlocks first (no recirculating, in other words)


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## Tony121 (6/3/17)

Thanks MTB, will do.

Now that I think about it, the one thing I'm a bit iffy about is the weld on the element socket. Clutching at straws maybe but is that something that could cause it by using the wrong welding material?


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## Tony121 (10/3/17)

Just to update this, I pulled the heater out and there is a distinct smell where the elements and the socket meet. I contacted the manufacturer and they advised that they use araldite to seal between the elements and the socket which is probably the reason for the smell but stated they don't normally have any issues. They have asked me to send it back to them to see what can be done to fix it.


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## mtb (10/3/17)

Araldite?! What brand?


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## Tony121 (10/3/17)

Assume you mean brand of heater as opposed to araldite. It was custom made by a local company I have used previously for work. Would rather not mention names as I have had nothing but quality from them and assume this was an oversight. I am also confident they will resolve any issues.


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