# one or two packs?



## lukasfab (16/10/14)

hi all

should i be pitching one or two packs of US05 into 20l of 1.068?

cheers


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## sp0rk (16/10/14)

1 if you're rehydrating


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## peas_and_corn (16/10/14)

/thread


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## Lemon (16/10/14)

Use both.
There is an extremely long answer which shows how even two is insufficient using industry, and home brew, calculations, some one will mention mr malty, and the up shot is.

Use both

Lemon


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## Yob (16/10/14)

Anything over about 1050, 2 packs or a starter if using liquids


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## lukasfab (17/10/14)

cheers fellas


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

Yeast is said to double every 12 hours so one must wonder if its worthwhile pitching 2 packets. 

If cost isn't a factor why not just pitch 4 packets and save yourself a whole day.


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## wereprawn (19/10/14)

Would only continue to reproduce while there was available oxygen wouldn't it Hoppy.


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

wereprawn said:


> Would only continue to reproduce while there was available oxygen wouldn't it Hoppy.


Third paragraph down.

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices


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## Yob (19/10/14)

hoppy2B said:


> Yeast is said to double every 12 hours so one must wonder if its worthwhile pitching 2 packets.
> 
> If cost isn't a factor why not just pitch 4 packets and save yourself a whole day.





hoppy2B said:


> Third paragraph down.
> 
> http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices


Third paragraph

Yeast is a facultative anaerobe which is just a fancy way of saying that it can survive and grow in the presence (aerobic) or absence (anaerobic) of oxyg*en. The presence of oxygen determines the metabolic fate of the cell*. *In terms of the yeast cell, its survival, growth and metabolism is optimal in the presence of oxygen*. In this case, yeast will rapidly grow to high densities and will convert sugar (glucose) to carbon dioxide and water. *Under anaerobic conditions*, yeast grows *much more slowly and to lower densities* and glucose is incompletely metabolized to ethanol and carbon dioxide. * It is important to realize that optimal yeast growth is distinct from fermentation*. Therefore, the conditions and methodologies used for propagating and maintaining yeast need not be identical to those used for fermenting wort. The purpose of a yeast starter is not to produce an enjoyable fermented beverage but rather to produce a sufficient quantity of yeast for subsequent fermentation. Propagation conditions should be such that a* maximal amount of yeast is produced which provides optimal fermentation performance once pitched*. What do we mean by fermentation performance? The main criteria for fermentation performance is based on the rate and extent of fermentation as well as the production of a beer with a balanced sensory profile with no off-flavors/aromas or inappropriate esters.

2 word Hoppy

*Pitch Rate*

many of the things you do to yeast are formed from opinion and not backed by any distinct research, especially starters and correct pitching rates.. just coz it eventually finishes does not mean it was therefore correct and could not have been better and/or cleaner at the end.

Its my understanding that anaerobic growth is nowhere near as good for the yeast cell as aerobic growth and inhibits their ability to repair resulting in weaker yeast, extrapolated a few brews and youre in trouble..


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## jyo (19/10/14)

Yob said:


> Anything over about 1050, 2 packs or a starter if using liquids


Always. Best chance of a clean ferment (not mentioning temperature control).


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

Yes Yob, it does state in that article that even subsequent batches repitched and well cared for can still lack performance.


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## danestead (19/10/14)

rather than listen to opposing views and links to artices how about you split the batch into 2 fermenters. Pitch 1 pack into one of the fermenters and half a pack into the other. Taste, and decide what pitch rate you prefer.


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

Actually, I notice that article says yeast will double every 2-3 hours. 

I tend to make a starter, even with dry yeast, and have been ever since I started beer making. Pitch rate isn't really an issue for me.


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## Judanero (19/10/14)

Yob said:


> many of the things you do to yeast are formed from opinion and not backed by any distinct research, especially starters and correct pitching rates.. just coz it eventually finishes does not mean it was therefore correct and could not have been better and/or cleaner at the end.


^ Agree with this.




hoppy2B said:


> I tend to make a starter, even with dry yeast, and have been ever since I started beer making. Pitch rate isn't really an issue for me.


If you're happy with the beer you make that's all that matters mate, that being said some of the yeast advice I've seen you give is questionable at best.


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## danestead (19/10/14)

Read the yeast book by zamil. All answers are in there. I have ready it twice and still dont understand the lot. Yeast are a very complicated thing and you will produce different esters, phenols, off flavour etc based on your pitch rate and health.


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## Judanero (19/10/14)

I was going to recommend that exact book. Comprehensive, reasonably straight forward, and most of all explains the 'why' of all things yeast.

An invaluable resource for anyone looking to improve their fermentations.


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## Burt de Ernie (19/10/14)

How many packs for this??


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## Judanero (19/10/14)

Eleventeen.


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

Judanero said:


> ^ Agree with this.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're happy with the beer you make that's all that matters mate, that being said some of the yeast advice I've seen you give is questionable at best.


What the hell is your problem? Mind your own business and give people whatever advice you wish and stop your trolling and criticism. I am fed up with the crap from the likes of Yob and yourself.


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## Yob (19/10/14)

hoppy2B said:


> I tend to make a starter, even with dry yeast, and have been ever since I started beer making. Pitch rate isn't really an issue for me.


 :blink: What despite even the manufacturers saying its actually detrimental to yeast health? WTF do they know eh?



hoppy2B said:


> What the hell is your problem? Mind your own business and give people whatever advice you wish and stop your trolling and criticism. I am fed up with the crap from the likes of Yob and yourself


stop giving shit advice then and you'll find a significant decrease in the criticism

*or*

back up your tripe with sound evidence and I'll eat my words and apologize.


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## dent (19/10/14)

MODERATION:

Members here are welcome to post their opinions. Please keep them related to the topic at hand.


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

Yob said:


> :blink: What despite even the manufacturers saying its actually detrimental to yeast health? WTF do they know eh?



Now you're just making stuff up. And there are a lot of things the manufacturers say that are complete and utter nonsense.


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## Yob (19/10/14)

You cannot be serious.. That has got to the biggest troll of the effing year..

How big are the starters you do with dry yeast may I ask?


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

Yob said:


> You cannot be serious.. That has got to the biggest troll of the effing year..
> 
> How big are the starters you do with dry yeast may I ask?


No I'm not trolling, I am discussing a particular point. 

My starter size varies form 1 to 2 litres nowadays.


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## Yob (19/10/14)

Then all you do is use up the glycogen and trehalose reserves, you will get little growth in that volume.


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## hoppy2B (19/10/14)

I don't use the whole pack of dry yeast.


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## Yob (19/10/14)

And this makes it better?

Aerated?


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## barls (20/10/14)

guys i don't want to clean this thread so lets keep this on topic. last warning to all parties.
antidotal is fine but not always the best info saying that published isn't ether as most time you can find something that contradicts. so ether leave it at that or keep personally attacking people and then you will really have something to whinge about when i step in with a big stick.
most of this will disappear and no one will like what i have to say about it.


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## bradsbrew (20/10/14)

Lukasfab, this discussion raises it's head quite often. It normally opens a can of worms which quickly turns into a shitstorm. For me personally I am lazy and will push best practice to it's very limit but what i have learnt over the years is to have your yeast happy and healthy if your about to give it a feast, otherwise it will be a smelly lazy turd. You will end up with a reasonable beer with one pack into 1.068 wort but it will not be as good as it could have been. When I am making a big beer I have two options, sprinkle in 2 packets or (because I am also a tight arse) brew a smaller beer first then use a cup or so of that yeast cake.
Some of the faults I have detected in some of my beers are due to my laziness with yeast, the most common being a soapy note due to the yeast stressing out which is more noticeable in less malty/hoppy beers. I have also found that when I feel i might be over pitching it is better to drop the ferment temp and that helps but I would not raise the temp if I thought I was under pitching. 
There are also those that are concerned with the dead yeast cell count when using yeast cake. 

What was the question again.


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