# Ferulic Acid Rests



## tangent (11/10/07)

I won't make a wheat beer unless it's at least 60%+ wheat and has an acid rest.
The results since doing this have been the biggest change for the better in my wheats since giving up the evil extract and K97.
However, the data I'm getting on Ferulic Acid rests is a little "all over the place."
For a start, the Mashmaster thermometer has the acid rest listed at 35-45C, where most chatter on the net seems to pinpoint 45C. How critical is this temp range? If I've overshot by a degree am I entering protein rest territory? How long should a rest ideally go for? Can I rest it for hours to pump out the clove and ashtrays, or show's over after 30 mins?
I like an over the top wheat, so underpitching, pitching cold, 43C-64C-70C mashes all seem to go hand in hand with the results I'm after. 

I suppose, what I'm asking for is a more detailed range chart than the mashmaster scale (which all new AG brewers should print out)


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## Trent (11/10/07)

I was almost positive that the ferulic acid rest is at 43C, and probably also a few degrees below that.
A quick google search just showed that number APPEARS to be correct, and seems to be on alot of the reputable HB websites. Doesnt mention anything less than that, so I would keep on doing what yer doing - 43 looks like the magic number.
All the best
Trent


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## Zwickel (11/10/07)

tangent said:


> I won't make a wheat beer unless it's at least 60%+ wheat and has an acid rest.
> The results since doing this have been the biggest change for the better in my wheats since giving up the evil extract and K97.
> However, the data I'm getting on Ferulic Acid rests is a little "all over the place."
> For a start, the Mashmaster thermometer has the acid rest listed at 35-45C, where most chatter on the net seems to pinpoint 45C. How critical is this temp range? If I've overshot by a degree am I entering protein rest territory? How long should a rest ideally go for? Can I rest it for hours to pump out the clove and ashtrays, or show's over after 30 mins?
> ...



gday mate,

from my experiences and my taste, the ideal ferulic acid rest should be held at around 42C and shouldnt exceed more than 30min.
Im doing it mostly for 20min. that provides a good balance between a beautiful banana and clove arome.
If youre going to extend the f.a. rest too long, the clove arome will become too dominant.
Wouldnt be in accordance with my taste anymore, although thats a personal matter.

From up to 45C on you are entering the protein area, althoug I never had any issue when I passed through too slowly.

once again my datas:
65-70% Wheat Malt,
30-35% Pilsener Malt
42-20min., 63C-30min.,72C-30min.,78C-mashout

Result:








Prost :beer:


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## tangent (11/10/07)

thanks Zwickel, you're a good man!


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## GUB (11/10/07)

The book I have says that esterase enz's must be present to pull out ferulic and acetic acid...it then goes on to say that the enzyme appears from 30C onwards, with an optimum of "around" 45C - it also gives this figure elsewhere in the book. sorry, no actual experience with the process, but doesn't seem under or overshooting is a major drama...perhaps under shooting is better?? No info on the length either


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## Screwtop (11/10/07)

My absolute best yet was a Zwickel Weizen, Tangent. 42 FA Rest for 30. Mashed in at 35 odd as he does then stepped to 42 for the rest. Zwickel has posted re his schedule for making weizenbier.

Screwy


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## tangent (11/10/07)

i overshot to 45.5C so i left the lid off the esky for the 30mins and stirred a few times.
i usually get 42-43C everytime, but SWMBO is home and throwing my brewing mojo off kilter


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## Zwickel (11/10/07)

tangent said:


> i overshot to 45.5C so i left the lid off the esky for the 30mins and stirred a few times.
> i usually get 42-43C everytime, but SWMBO is home and throwing my brewing mojo off kilter


dont worry tangent, there are no sharp edges on the sphere of action. 
Mostly we are talking about the optimum performance, but a little bit over or under doesnt harm at all.

Cheers


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## warrenlw63 (11/10/07)

Followin' this with vested interest. :beer: 

Keep contributing squires.

Warren -


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## tangent (11/10/07)

well warren, i usually brew on a Friday when she's at work, but i thought, what the hell, i've got an extra 2 kegs on the way and.... oh, you mean the acid rest


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## GMK (11/10/07)

Is that 60% Malted or Raw Wheat.


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## Zwickel (11/10/07)

GMK said:


> Is that 60% Malted or Raw Wheat.


must be malted of course


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## tangent (11/10/07)

all of my ingredients are weyermann malted.


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## warrenlw63 (12/10/07)

This thread has both helped and fired me up.

This is my plan of attack. I'm hoping to do it this weekend but it's not looking likely. <_< Think I'll be getting saved by Cup day at this rate. Hope it turns out as well as Earwig I.






Earwig Weizen II

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

15-A German Wheat and Rye Beer, Weizen/Weissbier

Min OG: 1.044 Max OG: 1.052
Min IBU: 8 Max IBU: 15
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 20 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 50.00 Wort Size (L): 50.00
Total Grain (kg): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.71
Anticipated EBC: 12.3
Anticipated IBU: 13.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 58.82 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.044 SG 10.88 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
27.3 3.00 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.039 19
45.5 5.00 kg. BB Pale Malt Australia 1.037 3
27.3 3.00 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 4

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 13.1 60 min.
10.00 g. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 0.7 15 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast WB-06 Weizen


Water Profile
-------------

Profile: Munich
Profile known for: 

Calcium(Ca): 76.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 18.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 1.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 10.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 2.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 152.0 ppm

pH: 8.33


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Weizen Mash

Total Grain kg: 11.00
Total Water Qts: 17.46 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water L: 16.52 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 15.50 C


*
Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ferulic 5 20 42 42 Infuse 49 16.52 1.50
Sacc 5 45 66 66 Infuse 99 15.13 2.88
mashout 5 15 78 78 Decoc 99 14.27 3.13 (Decoc Thickness)*


Total Water Qts: 33.45 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water L: 31.65 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume L: 39.00 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.
All infusion amounts are in Liters.
All infusion ratios are Liters/Kilograms.

Step Time for Decoction Steps represent how far back in time the Decoction was pulled.
Infusion amounts for Decoction Steps represent the amount pulled for the Decoction.
Infusion ratios for Decoction Steps represent the Decoction Thickness.

Warren -View attachment 15369


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