# Style Of The Week 14/6/06 - Bock



## Stuster (14/6/06)

This week I thought we could talk about a style that should be perfect for the weather at the moment (at least in the south of the country), Bock. This is style 5B in the BJCP guidelines.

So what are your experiences with Bock beer. What are the best malts to produce that maltiness, which hops complement the malt well? What yeasts have you used? What are the best kits and how do you jazz up that kit? What of all these to avoid? What commercial bocks have you enjoyed? Tell us all you know.  



> 5B. Traditional Bock
> 
> Aroma: Strong malt aroma, often with moderate amounts of rich melanoidins and/or toasty overtones. Virtually no hop aroma. Some alcohol may be noticeable. Clean. No diacetyl. Low to no fruity esters.
> 
> ...


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## T.D. (14/6/06)

Excellent choice Stuster!

I just bottled a bock on Monday. Actually it turned out to be a doppelbock as I totally overshot the gravity! You'd think after over 30 AG brews I would be starting to get some consistency, but no. :angry: 

Anyway, I can't remember it off the top of my head but tonight I'll post the recipe. It was designed as a "winter warmer" that I can give to some of my friends and relatives. I have champagne bottles for them, and stubbies for me (it is 7.9% afterall! :lol: ).


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (14/6/06)

I will add what I think is the most important aspect of Bock brewing.

Use the imported Munich Malts from Germany as your base malt for this beer. Up to 90 to 95% of the grist then use medium to dark crystal and a little chocolate malt. You can't go wrong with Weyermanns! I would imagine Hoepfners would be good as well but not sure if they are still available in Australia.

That is what works best for me anyhow.

Any German noble hop to 25IBU and a yeast that helps add to the malty characteristics such as Wyeast 2206 or Whitelabs 833.

Just my opinion anyway.

C&B
TDA


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## SteveSA (14/6/06)

TDA,

I couldn't agree more with your choice of German malts. (In fact I apply this rule of thumb to most styles - APAs excepted  ) Also a 90min boil and the use of Melanoidin for those of us too lazy to perform a decoction mash.

I've been playing with a Bock recipe lately and originally had about 50g Choc Malt in there for colour adjustment but have since changed to Carafa II. Is there any reason you use Choc instead?

FWIW (all malts Weyermann):
Dark Munich 70%
Vienna 21.5%
Melanoidin 7.5%
Carafa II 1%
WLP838 - Southern German Lager (don't have WLP833)
1.069
23IBU (Hallertau @ 60mins)
40EBC


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (14/6/06)

Hi SteveSA, Carafa 2 is definately interchangeable for the Chocolate malt providing you can get your hands on some. It is predominately for colour and at 1% of the grist either of those malts will add around 10EBC to the colour of the beer.

Could be a Bock swap coming up  

C&B
TDA


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## Trough Lolly (14/6/06)

Bocks are a great excuse to go berserk and do some decoction mashing.

What's that? Well it's nothing special - you just pull some of the grains from the mashtun, bring them to the boil for a while and then add them back to the mashtun, which raises the overall temp of the mashtun itself. They're great for stepped mashes - you can do a single decoction to raise the mash from the 50C protein rest to a 67C saccharification rest by pulling around 30 to 40% of the mash out at the end of the protein rest, trying not to get too much mash liquor with it and bringing the decoction to a gentle boil.
The malliard reactions will darken the grains, like you do with bread every morning you make toast, you'll get improved efficiency from the thinner mash as well as more malty melanoidins in the beer and it's a fun way to raise mash temps, as long as you're careful with the decoction and don't burn the grains in the base of the decoction pot. Anyway, for a good primer on decoction mashes, have a look at this article on the Oz Craftbrewing website: here.
Cheers,
TL


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## warrenlw63 (14/6/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> you can do a single decoction to raise the mash from the 50C protein rest to a 67C saccharification rest by pulling around 30 to 40% of the mash out at the end of the protein rest, trying not to get too much mash liquor with it and bringing the decoction to a gentle boil.



TL.

It would be a safer bet to let the 30 to 40% decoction rest at sacc temps for 20-30 mins before boiling. Not sure if boiling immediately is a good thing? :unsure: 

I could possibly be wrong.

Warren -


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## Trough Lolly (14/6/06)

Warren, you're dead right there - sorry about that, I posted without doing a sanity check!! 
Yes, of course, the idea is to quickly bring the pulled grains up to the sacc temp range (68-70C), let them rest for at least 20 mins to achieve conversion and then bring the decoction to a 15 or so minute gentle boil thereafter. Rapid boiling of a starch laden decoction will bring on all sorts of haze and flavour and glue-like problems in the mash and beyond...
Cheers,
TL


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## peas_and_corn (14/6/06)

I'll admit something shocking... I've never tried a bock before!!  

So... what's a good bock I could get (I'll probably go to Dan Murphy's), so I'll buy it for a party this weekend?

And what's a good recipe? The description is making me really think I'll like a good bock!


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## Trent (14/6/06)

Curse you guys and all these good styles to try each week. I have enough trouble keeping up with my own beer wants, let alone hearing about all these other beers I now wanna brew! Keep up the good work, maybe it just means I need to spend more time in the "brewery"

Trent


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## stephen (14/6/06)

Trent said:


> Curse you guys and all these good styles to try each week. I have enough trouble keeping up with my own beer wants, let alone hearing about all these other beers I now wanna brew! Keep up the good work, maybe it just means I need to spend more time in the "brewery"
> 
> Trent


Trent

I feel your hurt! I'm sitting here with all my fermenters full and still planning to make brew this weekend. Thankfully I have at least one of my lagers ready for CC so I'll be able to empty one of my fermenters into a cube. I'll also have another brew to bottle - then I read about this wonderful beer, Bock. Looking at the grain bill, I think that this would be a fantastic beer to make: Maybe I should buy some more fermeneters to help me out...and then another one and then another one an...

Steve


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## T.D. (14/6/06)

Here is the doppelbock recipe I brewed recently and bottled on monday. Its my first bock so any comments are more than welcome! :beerbang: 

Style: Doppelbock
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 18.00 L 
Boil Size: 18.27 L
Estimated OG: 1.078 SG
Estimated Color: 46.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 27.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.00 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 54.5 % 
1.90 kg Powell's Munich Malt (20.0 EBC) Grain 34.5 % 
0.25 kg Joe White Dark Crystal Malt (250.0 EBC) Grain 4.5 % 
0.25 kg Melanoidin (Hoepfner) (39.4 EBC) Grain 4.5 % 
0.10 kg Joe White Chocolate Malt (750.6 EBC) Grain 1.8 % 
27.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.90%] (60 min) Hops 26.8 IBU 
15.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [1.90%] (10 min) Hops 1.0 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs SafLager West European Lager (DCL Yeast #SYeast-Lager 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 14.34 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min 


An aside: The more I read about grain companies in Australia (and more importantly the ones who are no longer supplying the Australian market), I realise that the Melanoidin is most likely Weyermann rather than Hoepfner (had to take a 50-50 guess, and in true Murphey's Law fashion, chose the wrong one!).


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## peas_and_corn (15/6/06)

That looks like an interesting recipe there! Looks like there's another recipe waiting to be brewed! I've been a little slack on the brewing front; need to hop to it!


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## Steve (15/6/06)

Same as you p&c - never tried one.
Anyone tried the ESB 3 kg bavarian bock?
Cheers
Steve


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## neonmeate (15/6/06)

here's a nice one i brewed 2 years ago but it's more of a helles bock:

4.5kg Hoepfner Pils
1.5kg Hoepfner Munich
250g CaraHell
100g Toasted pils malt (10 mins 200C)
Mashed at 66C 30mins, decocted, added back for another 30mins at 70C, mashout.

35g Mittelfrueh (4.9%) 60'
15g Hersbrucker (2.9%) 15'
10g Mittelfrueh + 10g Cz. Saaz flameout

used WLP833 which was excellent. 2 weeks 10C, D rest for 5 days 12C. secondary 1 month @ 3C. another 6 weeks of lagering in bottles. it was tasty!

OG 1.071, FG 1.015, 10 SRM, 27 IBU, 7.3 %


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## Stuster (15/6/06)

Interesting recipe, neonmeate. What effects did you notice from the 100g of toasted malt?


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## Trough Lolly (15/6/06)

In October 98, Mikoli Weaver wrote a good primer on Bocks, in the BYO Magazine. It gives a good overview of the main bock styles (helles, maibock, weizenbock and the big bad dopplebock!) but he doesn't visit the Eisbock, which is a shame since it's an interesting brewing technique...
Nonetheless, he's worth a read: here...

Ray Daniels also wrote a good intro article on bocks - here...

And for those of you with APA jaded palates h34r: you might want to have a read of the following article from Darryl Richman who did an Aass dopplebock clone - feel free to drool!!  Click here to read...

Cheers,
TL


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## crozdog (15/6/06)

Has anyone done the ESB fresh wort bock? i think it is available now.

Beers

Crozdog


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## Lukes (15/6/06)

peas_and_corn said:


> I'll admit something shocking... I've never tried a bock before!!
> 
> So... what's a good bock I could get (I'll probably go to Dan Murphy's), so I'll buy it for a party this weekend?
> 
> And what's a good recipe? The description is making me really think I'll like a good bock!



A micro up in Healesville make one.
www.buckleysbeer.com.au
I tried it @ beertopia :chug: and it was good but it's not really my style so..
Don't know who else makes and aussie micro commercial version.

If you are going to have a go yourself I'll agree with the above posts you can't go past the german malts.

Luke


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## Bobby (15/6/06)

i made the esb fresh wort bock. still have some left actually. it was a tasty beer, give it a try crozdog.


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## Wreck (15/6/06)

Has anyone had a go at an eisbock?

How do you actually go about it?

Thanks,
Wreck.


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## neonmeate (15/6/06)

Stuster said:


> Interesting recipe, neonmeate. What effects did you notice from the 100g of toasted malt?



well just a really nice, low level dry toastiness to go with the sweeter malt flavours from the munich and carahell. gave it just a bit more malt complexity. next time i might try a bit more than just 100g. or try a pinch of amber malt.


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## Dr Gonzo (15/6/06)

Wreck,
An Eisbock is a bock which has been chilled & held below freezing. As ice forms on the top it is skimmed off to concentrate the alcohol & flavor. Haven't tried it but i guess you just need a fridge that goes below 0C & some patience.


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## Trough Lolly (15/6/06)

Wreck said:


> Has anyone had a go at an eisbock?
> 
> How do you actually go about it?
> 
> ...



G'day Wreck,
There's an interesting Eisbock recipe with step by step procedure on the BYO website...here...
TL


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## Duff (15/6/06)

Jeez TL, that beer in the BYO piccy desperately needs some Polyclar and filtering  

Anyhow, I was planning a Doppelbock to ferment early next month. Here's the receipe so far, any comments appreciated.

-----

06-34 Doppelbock

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 20.00 Wort Size (L): 20.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.70
Anticipated OG: 1.103 Plato: 24.45
Anticipated SRM: 18.7
Anticipated IBU: 27.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.0 4.00 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 10
40.2 3.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
11.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 1.038 4
1.1 0.10 kg. JWM Crystal 140 Australia 1.035 74
1.1 0.10 kg. JWM Chocolate Malt Australia 1.032 381

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 5.20 27.0 60 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager


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## Trough Lolly (15/6/06)

Yeah, it's not the clearest beer I've seen!

Re your recipe, it's good to see the 90 min boil for this style - a lengthy boil serves a number of functions but with this style it's good to give an extended boil to reduce the presence of SMM, a precursor to DMS which can rear it's ugly head with these beers.
Cheers,
TL


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## Wreck (15/6/06)

That doesn't look too difficult. I might put aside a litre or two of a bock and put it in the freezer, and skim some of the ice off.

I'll bottle the rest as normal.

That way I won't waste a whole batch if I stuff it.


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## Barry (15/6/06)

Good Day
I put a recipe for a bock I brewed in the recipe section for anyone who is interested. I am fairly happy with it though I prefer maibocks.


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## wee stu (15/6/06)

Gratuitious plug time, bocksters  

Bock/Doppelbock is one of the 4 new style classes introduced to this year's ANAWBS comp. It will be interesting to see how many entrants we get for this one. 

Certainly an interesting style and one that is very pleasing to drink, but not necessarily as frequently brewed as it merits. However, if you have a bock that you think rocks, we would love to see it strut its stuff against other bocks, bocks and nothing but bocks in the EUR6 class at this year's comp.

Some of you *may * even be able to read more about it at the ANAWBS  web site. Our webmaster is still _in absentia_, but some tinkering has been done in an attempt to resolve our earlier access problems.


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## Tony (15/6/06)

I tend to agree with TDA.

I havnt made one yet but planning one for the winter months brewing.

Will use a base of weyermann vienna with a healthy dose of Munich 1. Some german crystal and carafa spec 1 for color.

Decoction mashed and brewed with WLP 833 (god i love this yeast)

cheers


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## Trough Lolly (16/6/06)

Much of this thread has been devoted to all grain bocks.
I was looking through my recipe notes last night and dug up a partial mash bock that may be of use to some who haven't got all grain setups...The recipe is based on a Coopers Bavarian Lager kit, some dry malt extract and 2.5kg of grains.

*TL's Chock a Block Bock*
Size: 20 Litres
Colour: approx. 15SRM
Bitterness: 20 IBU
OG: 1.070 FG: 1.016

Grainbill:
1.5kg Bairds Munich Malt
0.5kg Hoepfner Pils Malt
250g Weyermann Carapils
250g Maltcraft Light Crystal

Extracts:
1.7kg Coopers Bavarian Lager Kit
1kg Coopers Light DME

Hops:
26g Hallertau (6% A/A, 60 mins)
20g Hallertau (aroma - at flameout)

Yeast:
Your choice (I recommend Wyeast 2206 or 2124)
W34/70 dry yeast is ok in lieu of fresh liquid yeast.

Method:
Mash the grains at 68C for 1 hour. You can steep the carapils and crystal in a separate pot at 70C if you have limited room in the mashpot.
Sparge to deliver 12L of wort to stock pot. Add the DME and bring to rolling boil.
90 minute boil - add the bittering hops with 60mins to go.
Add the Coopers Bav Lager kit at end of boil / flameout to preserve aroma and flavouring from kit hops - stir gently through to mix, then chill the wort to lager pitching temps.

Hope this helps. 
Cheers,
TL


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## mikoli (22/8/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> In October 98, Mikoli Weaver wrote a good primer on Bocks, in the BYO Magazine. It gives a good overview of the main bock styles (helles, maibock, weizenbock and the big bad dopplebock!) but he doesn't visit the Eisbock, which is a shame since it's an interesting brewing technique...
> Nonetheless, he's worth a read: here...





Hey there-

First of all, thanks for the kind words. That article turned out to be a very popular feature that year.

About Eisbock, I believe we reserved that beer for a different feature all together. It's hard to remember, but I think there was a piece on high gravity brewing... Maybe it was their sister magazine "Brewpub."

Anyway, if there are ever questions- give an email. [email protected]


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## Snow (23/8/06)

Mmmmm Bock....I love it!

My last bock turned out pretty nice when it was fresh (after 5 weeks lagering), but developed autolysis after about 2 months in the bottle (mmmm....vegemite flavoured bock!). Next time it's going straight into the keg to be drunk! The recipe is a partial mash and I did a double decoction.

Anyway, for those interested, this is the recipe:
OG:1064 IBU:28

2kg Munich malt
500g Dark Crystal malt
100g Roast barley
100g Chocolate Malt
200g Wheat malt
2kg LME
1kg DME
25g Perle pellets (7.1% AA) First Wort Hopped - 90 mins
5g Perle pellets (7.1%AA) - 60 mins
10g hallertauer - (5.5%AA) - 20 mins
5g Hallertauer (5.5%AA) at flameout 
3L starter Whitelabs WLP 820 Octoberfest/Marzen liquid yeast

I have also made the ESB fresh wort bock, using the same yeast. It was a very nice beer and very true to style. Hard to fault, actually. My advice when making the ESB version, is to NOT add any water, i.e make only 15L.

Cheers - Snow.


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## Weizguy (23/8/06)

I look forward to reading Mikoli's article at home tonight when I have a few moments after bottling my Best Bitter clone.

Can anyone tell me if a touch of smokiness is allowable in a bock? You see, I have a a W2206 yeast cake with a Rauchbier on top of it, just waiting for racking and potential repitching (of a bock or doppelbock, of course).
...or should I wash the yeast first?
Seth


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## DarkFaerytale (14/3/07)

hey all, wouldn't mind some feedback on this dopplebock recipe

Doppelbock

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 19.00 Wort Size (L): 19.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.70
Anticipated OG: 1.095 Plato: 22.62
Anticipated SRM: 21.2
Anticipated IBU: 35.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 24.52 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.073 SG 17.85 Plato



Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
58.4 4.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
14.9 1.15 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8
11.7 0.90 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 63
8.4 0.65 kg. Weyermann Carared Germany 1.036 24
5.8 0.45 kg. Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) Germany 1.037 2
0.6 0.05 kg. JWM Chocolate Malt Australia 1.032 381

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Perle Pellet 7.30 31.8 90 min.
14.00 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 3.70 3.7 30 min.
14.00 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 3.70 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 2206 Bavarian Lager


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 71 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 77 Time: 40

anything i should change or does it look all good?

cheers

-Phill


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## kabooby (28/3/08)

Doing a dark Bock this weekend and I am trying to decide on the yeast.
I already have some WLP 830 German Lager yeast in starter that I was going to use but wondered if the WLP833 German Bock yeast would be better.

Has anyone used both and noticed a significant difference? If so what were the differences?

Any feedback is welcome

Kabooby


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## kevnlis (28/3/08)

I have used both, and the WLP833 is a much better Bock yeast. Really brings out the rich Munich maltiness. It is one of the few yeasts I always keep on hand and I do a bock or fest beer with it every 4th batch or so


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## kabooby (28/3/08)

Thanks Kevnlis

That was the definate response I was after. Looks like im of to ESB to get some WLP833

Kabooby


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## kabooby (25/4/08)

I have been sampling my Bock ovger the last week and I love it. So smooth and balanced for a 7% beer.

I the only other Bock I have had is the Burragorang Bock from Picton so I went to Dan Murphy's and got a bottle of Buckleys Bock to do a comparison. Was not impressed with it. In fact I could not even finish it. :angry: 

Anyway, does anyone know of any other Bocks that are available in Aus? I would love to try some more.

Kabooby


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## Adamt (25/4/08)

Birra Moretta La Rossa should be in Dan's... that's a doppelbock though.

Yes... bocks are dangerous


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## pmolou (27/4/08)

this is gonna sound real stupid but i was wondering if you could brew a bock with an ale yeast if so which one,
if not whats the best dried lager yeast to use???

I'd prefer to use an ale yeast because i'm not racking beer and temperature and i already have ale yeasts and another question if i did use a yeast such as us-56 or abbey II i know i wouldnt produce a bock but what would i produce

eg. on say 1.5kg pale coopers malt
1.5kg dark coopers malt
1.5kg munich partial mash
IBU 25 hallertua

this might be in the wrong section now, started off asking a small question and got carried away haha 

advice would be appreciated cheers


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## oldbugman (27/4/08)

I used to make pseduo lagers using WLP029 during the winter months(16degC) before I had a fermentation fridge.
Results being lager like......debatable.


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## newguy (28/4/08)

pmolou said:


> this is gonna sound real stupid but i was wondering if you could brew a bock with an ale yeast if so which one,
> if not whats the best dried lager yeast to use???
> 
> I'd prefer to use an ale yeast because i'm not racking beer and temperature and i already have ale yeasts and another question if i did use a yeast such as us-56 or abbey II i know i wouldnt produce a bock but what would i produce



You can actually produce very good lagers using lager yeast but at high temperatures. I just brewed 6 of them this spring, 3 using wyeast 2308 munich lager and 3 using wyeast 2112 california lager. For the first week, I kept them all at ~13-15.5C, then I let them warm up to my normal basement temperature of ~19C. I don't transfer any of my beers to secondary either. I just don't like the risk that brings (infection, oxidation). Almost all of the lagers I entered in the AHA's NHC 1st round ended up with a medal except for my vienna. That beer scored 40 but I didn't get a medal. Tough class.

Other lager yeasts that I've heard perform well at ale temperatures (but not actually tried myself) are 2124 Bohemian and 2278 Czech Pils.

As for a clean ale yeast to use, that really depends on the temperature. If you can keep the temperature below ~19-20C, then you have a few options. Wyeast 1056 american, 1007 german, and 1338 european will all work. The kolsch strain, 2565, should also work too, but definitely only if the temperature never gets above 20C. Above 20C, and the only yeast I'd trust would be the 1056 american.

You'll have to find a wyeast/white labs cross reference if you want to use a white labs strain. I'm most familiar with wyeast strains at the moment. Hope this helps.


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