# How Many Of Us Does This Describe?



## Pollux (24/2/11)

Just been doing some reading as I'm currently putting myself on a dry fortnight on account of my drinking getting too out of control over the last few weeks (I'm sure all the family related crap I posted elsewhere has contributed to this) and I found a term that I'm not ashamed to say probably describes me and I'd dare say a few more on here....

High Functioning Alcoholic......

Definition as stolen from Wikipedia



> A High-functioning alcoholic (HFA) is a form of alcoholism where the alcoholic is able to maintain their outside life such as jobs, academics, relationships etc. all while drinking alcoholically.[1] Many HFAs are not viewed by society as alcoholics because they do not fit the common alcoholic stereotype. Unlike the stereotypical alcoholic, HFA's have either succeeded or over-achieved through their lifetimes. This can lead to denial of alcoholism through both the HFA, co-workers, family members and friends.
> [edit]Signs and symptoms
> 
> 1. Drinking Patterns
> ...




So, does this describe anyone else???


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## Fatgodzilla (24/2/11)

Pollux said:


> Just been doing some reading as I'm currently putting myself on a dry fortnight on account of my drinking getting too out of control over the last few weeks (I'm sure all the family related crap I posted elsewhere has contributed to this) and I found a term that I'm not ashamed to say probably describes me and I'd dare say a few more on here....
> 
> High Functioning Alcoholic......
> 
> ...




I answer quite truthfully I am not a HFA, but I'd like to be one!


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## WarmBeer (24/2/11)

If I answer 'Yes' to 13 out of the 26 questions, what does that make me?

A Half Functioning Alcoholic?


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## Bribie G (24/2/11)

1. Drinking Patterns
When they have one drink, they experience a craving to have more and cannot predict what their alcohol intake will be.
They obsess about the next time they will be able to brew alcohol.
They create beers that are not characteristic of the BJCP style they are aiming for while brewing and continue to repeat these unwanted styles and patterns.
Surround themselves socially with brewing forums.
Getting drunk before actually doughing in .
Setting batch limits (i.e., only having 3 kegs on the go, only brewing 3 days per week) and not being able to adhere to them.
Driving spouses to drink and not getting arrested or involved in an accident.
Always having to finish an alcoholic beverage despite the low cost of a home bevvy.
Using comp wins as a reward.
Drinking daily or binge drinking (more than 5 drinks in one sitting) on weekends in order to clear a keg for the next batch
Having blackouts (memory lapse due to losing brew log book) and not remembering what the hell hops went into that Yorkie.
Feeling guilt and shame about their last minicomp ranking. 
Taking breaks from brewing and then increasing batch production when they resume brewing after a period of time.
Engaging in risky sexual behavior with goats in particular when intoxicated.
Not being able to imagine their life without beer and brewing in it

2. Denial
Have difficulty viewing themselves as commercial beer consumers
Avoid Public bars unless serving craft beers.
Make excuses for drinking by claiming beer appreciation to assist recipe formulation 

3. Professional and Personal Life:
Well respected for job/academic performance and accomplishments and bringing in bottles for a chosen few in the office
Can maintain a social life and intimate relationships.
Surround themselves with people who brew heavily

4. "Double Life":
Appear to the outside world to be managing life well.
Skilled at living a compartmentalized life (i.e., separating professional, personal, and brewing lives)

5. Hitting Bottom:
Experience few tangible losses and consequences from their drinking, nearly always by sheer luck.
Experience recurrent thoughts that because they have not lost the last comp there is still the chance of a 45 point win.
Often get diacetyl and are unable to recognize it


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## Phoney (24/2/11)

Some of those apply to me, a lot of them dont... but jeez that's the problem with internet diagnosis isn't it. You can read through the symptoms of half of the medical conditions out there and say "Geez! Well I get that and I feel like that at times, so I must have XYZ" Even though you actually have something completely different (or nothing at all) and so doctors hate it when their patents self diagnose.

That said, a few of those in that list negatively impact those around you who you love, and do egatively affect *you* (particularly number 5). So if that's happening to your life then you definitely have a problem which you should address if you care about yourself and others...

my 2c


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## Nick JD (24/2/11)

_Drinking daily or binge drinking (more than 5 drinks in one sitting) on weekends._

Whoa! 5 drinks is binge drinking? 

This sounds like an American classification. I can legally drive a car on half the amount it takes to class me as a binge drinker? WTF?

Maybe it's denial. Maybe we should encourage another prohibition. Or not.


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## Pollux (24/2/11)

I guessed/hoped this topic would turn into a hot one, I'm interested to read the opinions of those whom I only really know of due to the love of beer......


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## fergi (24/2/11)

no i dont fall into this category, in fact i go for 8 hours and dont even think about beer, in fact i dont even have a drink while i am sleeping, oops the eight hours is while i am sleeping, so i know you are "supposed to not have a drink until after noon' WHO THE HELL MADE THAT IDEA UP.
fergi


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## argon (24/2/11)

I've recently been considering this very topic... i've had alcoholics in the family and can identify such behaviour.

Thankfully I don't possess an addictive personality... i think it gets over run by my laziness to be honest.

I can't see myself being an alcoholic as i don't drink anything else but beer. Furthermore I simply won't consume anything that is not good quality (with the exception of my on homebrew of course). I often refuse offers of drinks at work and with friends... i have no interest in drinking anything less than good stuff.

So along with laziness, i have a "snobbish" side that won't lower myself into any addiction. So in essence, my less than admirable traits save me from being addicted to anything.


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## jonocarroll (24/2/11)

I see a lot of those traits in my behaviour, but by and large not the worst or majority of them. I've seen plenty more of them in my family members though, and it's not pretty. I have between zero and two beers throughout the working week (almost always around dinner time). A few more on weekends. Never just for the sake of it, and absolutely never something I have to force down (how many times have you heard "man, that beer was horse-piss, took all my strength to get it down, now get me another").

Part of the problem with the social attitudes towards drinking is the belief that it's cool to be alcoholic, to get drunk as much as possible...



Fatgodzilla said:


> I answer quite truthfully I am not a HFA, but I'd like to be one!


Getting youth to spend some time with a non-high-functioning alcoholic on a regular basis (while sober) will likely change their attitudes pretty quickly (one would hope). Absolutely nothing in that list is anything to be proud of, and should serve as a good identification of things to improve in one's life.


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## Pollux (24/2/11)

argon said:


> I can't see myself being an alcoholic as i don't drink anything else but beer. Furthermore I simply won't consume anything that is not good quality (with the exception of my on homebrew of course). I often refuse offers of drinks at work and with friends... i have no interest in drinking anything less than good stuff.
> 
> So along with laziness, i have a "snobbish" side that won't lower myself into any addiction. So in essence, my less than admirable traits save me from being addicted to anything.




From more of my reading...



> Self-deluding Some HFAs drink only expensive wine or liquor in the mistaken belief that this means theyre not an alcoholic. Its a self-delusion that allows them to continue to drink with impunity.




That said, by the Governments guidelines we are probably all binge drinkers....


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## argon (24/2/11)

> > QUOTE (argon @ Feb 24 2011, 05:28 PM)
> > I can't see myself being an alcoholic as i don't drink anything else but beer. Furthermore I simply won't consume anything that is not good quality (with the exception of my on homebrew of course). I often refuse offers of drinks at work and with friends... i have no interest in drinking anything less than good stuff.
> >
> > So along with laziness, i have a "snobbish" side that won't lower myself into any addiction. So in essence, my less than admirable traits save me from being addicted to anything.
> ...



Oh dear :blink:


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## Superoo (24/2/11)

I never had a drink for 12 years...

then...

I turned 13...


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## staggalee (24/2/11)

BribieG said:


> 1. Drinking Patterns
> When they have one drink, they experience a craving to have more and cannot predict what their alcohol intake will be.
> They obsess about the next time they will be able to brew alcohol.
> They create beers that are not characteristic of the BJCP style they are aiming for while brewing and continue to repeat these unwanted styles and patterns.
> ...



Actually, I`d be a bit pissed off if I spent the time to type out a reply as witty, long and succint as that and people just drove over the top of it without so much as a "yeah too rite".
Very bad form
Maybe I drink too much


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## Lecterfan (24/2/11)

Awesome, interesting and thoughtful topic Pollux. I shall avoid pontificating about the highly limited usefulness of the DSM (it's hard for me to resist as it is my area of previous occupational and current academic concern), which is where this information has originated before being given a slightly new twist by the woman who is referenced at the bottom of the page. 

Certainly many issues there that are food for thought (while we can all agree the 5 beers in one sitting thing is just a little bit unrealistic).

Personally I wouldn't get too excited about the wiki page summation as it removes all nuance of the concept. HFA is actually more of a slang term that can be thrown around and (ab)used by clinicians who unsurprisingly make money from the concept (oops- I tried to resist).

This is a well referenced article (amazingly for wikipedia) if you really want to read how bad things have to be in order to be diagnosed as alcoholic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholism

Also further reading about the DSM itself, this article does a reasonable job of presenting some of the criticisms of the DSM while still retaining a mostly descriptive stance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_an...ental_Disorders


In a nutshell, based on the DSM we are all high functioning somethings - all behaviours and problems exist on a continuum and the labelling comes in at a certain (sometimes arguably arbitrary) point.

Let me acknowledgte to all other health workers on the site that I acknowledge the usefulness of the tool, but a screwdriver can also be used to stab people with (I hope that metaphor is clear).

Kudos to Pollux having the courage to broach the issue :super: 

RDWHAHB.

edit: yes I had a good giggle at BribieG's reworking, but wanted more to address some of the issues raised by OP, especially in regards to the last few weeks that he's referred to.


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## Bribie G (24/2/11)

"cannot imagine a life without alcohol"

Well I can't be HFA because I can quite well imagine a life without alcohol ... happens in parts of the planet right now :icon_cheers:


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## cdbrown (24/2/11)

I generally don't drink on weeknights, except Fridays. Only time I might drink is if we have visitors or are visiting, then it'll only be 1-2 stubbies. I don't obsess about when I'll have the next drink, but have been obsessing about when I can brew the next drinks. On big sessions I've been quite lucky (or maybe it's unlucky) that I don't suffer from blackouts/memory losses.


I do try to engage in risky sexual behaviour, but don't need to be intoxicated, and generally get knocked back


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/2/11)

"Engaging in risky sexual behavior when intoxicated".
Not likely, unless the wife is away h34r: Due back on the 1st March , there is still time.
GB


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## Phoney (24/2/11)

BribieG said:


> "cannot imagine a life without alcohol"
> 
> Well I can't be HFA because I can quite well imagine a life without alcohol ... happens in parts of the planet right now :icon_cheers:


\

I dunno, the guy on the left of the machete looks pretty happy.


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## barto1308 (24/2/11)

I probably drink a little more than i should - I guess I drink most nights, though i try to have at least the recommended 2 alcohol free days per week. When I do drink, I'll have 1 or 2 tallies in a sitting, occasionally drinking a few more on a night out with the boys. As a tradie, I'm well and truly immersed in the Aussie cultural obsession with drinking too much and acting like a fool- and yes, I have done that myself on a few regrettable occasions. 
I dont obsess about beer, though some of the people I work with would argue that point. I talk about and think about beer alot because I love making it! 
And yes, sometimes I have felt myself hanging out for a beer at the end of a hard days work - and I see nothing wrong with that. 
Do I feel that I have a problem? No, but I can also see how easy it would be for it to become a problem.

My 2c on a topic I have thoughy plenty about


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## Bribie G (24/2/11)

Probably spotted the Heineken sign on the tourist hotel.


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## Muggus (24/2/11)

Certainly me to a degree. Though i'm quite open and honest about being an alcoholic. But then I have mates from work, and their mates, who seriously are at a different level of being alcoholics, where it's nothing to do with the quality of the drink, more just getting drunk and going to irrational lengths to get it.


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## C_west (24/2/11)

I find that I tend to drink just because I like the taste of the beer (my homebrew mostly), getting drunk is just a side affect. A lot of people my age (22) tend to drink to get drunk and will not just have a beer or two after work during the week. In all honesty if my brews tasted exactly the same as they did now without alcohol, which I know is impossible, I would probably still drink almost as much as I do now. It is nice to have a few beers with mates and get a little 'happy' etc, but I still find even with the amount that I drink during the week that I am never drunk by myself.

In my eyes there is a difference between wanting to drink a nice beer, and wanting to drink alcohol in general.


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## Nick JD (24/2/11)

I have an issue with the whole "high functioning" thing. It seems to imply that those who can maintain a happy and healthy life while getting quite pissed regularly have a problem.


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## bum (24/2/11)

Nick, you seem to be forgetting that alcohol is a poison and does bad things to our bodies even if we are able to manage to stop it from doing bad things to our lives.



Lecterfan said:


> In a nutshell, based on the DSM we are all high functioning somethings - all behaviours and problems exist on a continuum and the labelling comes in at a certain (sometimes arguably arbitrary) point.


ENABLER!!!


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## Lecterfan (24/2/11)

bum said:


> ENABLER!!!




:icon_drunk:


edit: plus, if we look at Nick's post in full he says happy AND healthy so to accept the premise of his statement is to imply that while he gets pissed regularly he has the autonomy to make an informed decision, thus regulating the effectof the poison in the first instance. Although if there is a long way to say something I'm sure to find it.


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## Bribie G (24/2/11)

I was reading a book last year about the history of drink. Apparently in the 18th century the gentry who ruled Britain and engineered the biggest takeover of the world in modern times - the British Empire - would regularly drink four of five bottles of port a day, and by the end of the evening would literally be lying on the floor, and employ young boys to loosen their collars so they wouldn't choke, then would get back into the port the next morning as they shaved.


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## bum (24/2/11)

Lecterfan said:


> edit: plus, if we look at Nick's post in full he says happy AND healthy so to accept the premise of his statement is to imply that while he gets pissed regularly he has the autonomy to make an informed decision, thus regulating the effectof the poison in the first instance.


I think you'll find that interpretation of the text undermines the point behind it.

Also the questions ask nothing about organ health so "healthy" in the context of the, er, context refers to mental heath (and social health if we're willing to accept such a concept).


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## InCider (24/2/11)

I voted yes.

I own the book from the website below.

The author, Frank Kelly Rich is one of my facebook friends h34r: 

Modern Drunkard Magazine.

It's great. I really identify with a lot of it. I've been kicked out of pubs and clubs from St Kilda to Cairns.


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## Lecterfan (24/2/11)

bum said:


> I think you'll find that interpretation of the text undermines the point behind it.
> 
> Also the questions ask nothing about organ health so "healthy" in the context of the, er, context refers to mental heath (and social health if we're willing to accept such a concept).




I'm a post-structuralist, there is no point behind it, just the interpretation itself (of course I agree with what you're saying, but I'm just being a prick).

But your point that it damages our bodies even if not our lives is of course perfectly valid, but all the psychowaffle about HFA is only about the other aspects of "health" as you stated, and philosophically therefore what Nick has said is in line with that point.

And you are completely correct about "healthy" - the actual DSM classification actually _does_ have a number of biological and physiological criteria that have to be met; thus my earlier point that HFA is clinician slang.





BribieG said:


> employ young boys to loosen their collars



Sounds like an 18th century euphemism to me...


...BOY! Get here and..."loosen my collar"


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## proudscum (24/2/11)

i will drink to this and that, for that matter.A bit like why arent all chefs fat?


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## matt white (24/2/11)

HFA - count me in!!!


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## jyo (24/2/11)

I voted yes to some of the above. 
But what about the High Functioning Austistic Alcoholics? They get drunk regularly but can't make eye contact and get stuck trying to choose which coloured malt to brew with.


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## Nick JD (24/2/11)

bum said:


> Nick, you seem to be forgetting that alcohol is a poison and does bad things to our bodies even if we are able to manage to stop it from doing bad things to our lives.



The detrimental effects on my health at the rate I enjoy beer are so small they are effectively non-existant. I barely get above the legal driving limit. 

The greasy sausages I'm cooking for dinner tonight will do more damage than the beer I'm washing them down with.


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## razz (24/2/11)

I love sausages! :wub:


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## Tony (24/2/11)

i will say 2 things

Yes.... most likely i am as per described.

and

Suck my hairy balls you wowser "anything other than yourselves is bad" fuckheads............ im happy with my life and i will do what i want!!!

you have to die of something........ I will die happy with a beer in my hand 

I could write up all sorts of crap based on my personal beliefs of different social and religious groups........ but it would only ever amount to my opinion in the end.

Watch the vid....... its how i feel on this topic!


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## Cocko (24/2/11)

Bill hicks:

_My final point about alchohol, about drugs, about Pornography...What business is it of your's what I do, read, buy, see or take into my body as long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilemna on how to answer this, I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS Take that to the bank, cash it and take it on a vacation outta my ******* life._

Says it well...


Edit: BTW would see my self as a HFA but can admit it and don't really have a problem with it if I stay HF...


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## jonocarroll (24/2/11)

proudscum said:


> i will drink to this and that, for that matter.A bit like why arent all chefs fat?


The good ones are... h34r: NEVER trust a skinny chef.



Tony said:


> Suck my hairy balls you wowser "anything other than yourselves is bad" fuckheads............ im happy with my life and i will do what i want!!!
> 
> you have to die of something........ I will die happy with a beer in my hand


Phew, glad that's sorted out. I couldn't agree more, but there's a lot of work to be done now - tell you what, we'll split the effort; I'll call all the mental health workers and tell them to pack it in and go home, you start letting the happy-yet-unbalanced loose on society. Gee it's going to be great. What the freak were we thinking trying to make sure that self-destructive behaviour was payed attention before getting out of hand? I mean, starting a non-compulsory poll on a forum? Fuckin Nazi's man!


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## Guysmiley54 (24/2/11)

Tony said:


> Watch the vid....... its how i feel on this topic!




Great song Tony :kooi:


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## petesbrew (24/2/11)

phoneyhuh said:


> \
> 
> I dunno, the guy on the left of the machete looks pretty happy.


What's the point of holes in machetes?


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## beersatan (24/2/11)

InCider said:


> Modern Drunkard Magazine.



On Andre the Giant...




Modern Drunkard is the biz. Thanks for the intro Incider! :beer: 


FWIW - whoever thought HFA was worthy of even thinking about has some issues to deal with. I'll drink through mine!


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## Hatchy (24/2/11)

> 1. Drinking Patterns
> When they have one drink, they experience a craving to have more and cannot predict what their alcohol intake will be. Can anyone?
> They obsess about the next time they will be able to drink alcohol. Sometimes.
> They behave in ways that are not characteristic of themselves while drunk and continue to repeat these unwanted behaviours and patterns. That doesn't sound like me.
> ...



I figure that I'm doing OK, I managed to fix the typos from the original post. Seriously, someone is spelling behaviour without a "u" & suggesting that other people have problems. Is that another stupid american way to spell a word wrong?

In unrelated news, I haven't had a ciggie since Saturday so I reckon I'm going to have 8 pints to celebrate.


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## Nevalicious (25/2/11)

Hatchy said:


> In unrelated news, I haven't had a ciggie since Saturday so I reckon I'm going to have 8 pints to celebrate.



Bullshit!! You had one last night!! :lol: 

And as for "Alcoholics go to meetings... I'm a drinker, not an alcoholic..."

Meetings  

Was a great night by the way Hatch. Appreciate it!


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## Hatchy (25/2/11)

Nevalicious said:


> Bullshit!! You had one last night!! :lol:
> 
> And as for "Alcoholics go to meetings... I'm a drinker, not an alcoholic..."
> 
> ...




Shh. Those weren't cigarettes. That's a different thread entirely.

& that wasn't going to a "meeting", that was hosting a "meeting".


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## browndog (25/2/11)

cdbrown said:


> I generally don't drink on weeknights, except Fridays. Only time I might drink is if we have visitors or are visiting, then it'll only be 1-2 stubbies. I don't obsess about when I'll have the next drink, but have been obsessing about when I can brew the next drinks. On big sessions I've been quite lucky (or maybe it's unlucky) that I don't suffer from blackouts/memory losses.
> 
> 
> I do try to engage in risky sexual behaviour, but don't need to be intoxicated, and generally get knocked back




Try going ugly early.


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## Sydneybrewer (25/2/11)

**** i answered yes to almost all of the questions, curently have Not had a drink for 4 weeks though... Trying to get past feb Without touching an alcoholic beverage as part of a pact of sorts with a mate, maybe we are both trying to prove to ourselves that we dont need a drink, but to be honest all i ******* want is a beer after work...


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## bum (25/2/11)

Cocko said:


> Bill hicks:
> 
> _My final point about alchohol, about drugs, about Pornography...What business is it of your's what I do, read, buy, see or take into my body as long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilemna on how to answer this, I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS Take that to the bank, cash it and take it on a vacation outta my ******* life._
> 
> Says it well...


He died at the age of 33, didn't he? Seemed to be generally pretty miserable too.

Just sayin'.


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## schooey (25/2/11)

> _My final point about alchohol, about drugs, about Pornography...What business is it of your's what I do, read, buy, see or take into my body as long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilemna on how to answer this, I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR ******* BUSINESS Take that to the bank, cash it and take it on a vacation outta my ******* life._




The problem with that whole statement is not the direct harm the drugs, alcohol and pornography have, it's the indirect harm.


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## proudscum (25/2/11)

QuantumBrewer said:


> The good ones are... h34r: NEVER trust a skinny chef.
> 
> 
> must have been pretty bad to work in all those 1,2,3 hat venues......mine you it was the diet of coffee and Beer.
> you only get fat when you leave the kitchen and no longer do 100 hr weeks...sounds like a healthy mix really alcohol/lots of coffee/eating badly/long hours/playing with sharp cutty things and heavy machinery...no wonder the chef is always pissed off and needs a drink.


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## Strange Brew (25/2/11)

Tony said:


> i will say 2 things
> 
> Yes.... most likely i am as per described.
> 
> ...





I would like to express my unreserved agreement for the above opinion *hick*


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## Pennywise (25/2/11)

schooey said:


> The problem with that whole statement is not the direct harm the drugs, alcohol and pornography have, it's the indirect harm.



I totally agree with this. But I also hope anyone who uses that Bill Hicks phrase, is smart enough to.....


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## Nick JD (25/2/11)

petesbrew said:


> What's the point of holes in machetes?



Easier to remove when stuck into flesh up to their hilt.


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## jonocarroll (25/2/11)

proudscum said:


> QuantumBrewer said:
> 
> 
> > The good ones are... h34r: NEVER trust a skinny chef.
> ...


No offense implied, just my general tendency to prefer a chef who likes what he makes and likes to eat good food. 'Skinny chef' doesn't produce that image for me (even if 15 hours a day every day of a week may counteract everything). Don't mind me, I'm being stereotypical, but on the other hand, the fact that you don't see Hungry Jacks employees leaving with food is quite telling.


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## jzani (25/2/11)

BribieG said:


> 1. Drinking Patterns
> When they have one drink, they experience a craving to have more and cannot predict what their alcohol intake will be.
> They obsess about the next time they will be able to brew alcohol.
> They create beers that are not characteristic of the BJCP style they are aiming for while brewing and continue to repeat these unwanted styles and patterns.
> ...



Yup, I only drink because I need to empty enough bottles for my next brew, so surely I don't count as an HFA.


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## raven19 (25/2/11)

I obsess more about the brewing than the drinking.

But the more I brew the more I have to drink... :icon_cheers:


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## super_simian (26/2/11)

Just focus on the *functional* part. As long as I'm a functional alcoholic, I don't care.


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## gregs (26/2/11)

Is risky sexual behaviour doing it on the wing of an aircraft at 30,000 feet? 

Or doing it in the middle of the battle ground in Afghanistan?


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## Gormand (26/2/11)

raven19 said:


> I obsess more about the brewing than the drinking.
> 
> But the more I brew the more I have to drink... :icon_cheers:



This describes me as well, I brew a bunch and think about how Im going to get through all this beer so that I can brew some more. Most times I just buy more bottles though. Been brewing for just over 2 months and have around 83 litres of beer and cider lying around. Thats after getting people to help me drink it some 
But my latest batch is for a friend, so that does count right?... right?


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## Brad Churchill (26/2/11)

I suppose it depends on what stage of life you are at.

Years ago doing it on the couch at my girlfriends place while her parents were in bed seemed risky enough.... Particularily that time her grandfather stayed over and walked past us with his torch on the way to the toilet!! :blink: 



gregs said:


> Is risky sexual behaviour doing it on the wing of an aircraft at 30,000 feet?
> 
> Or doing it in the middle of the battle ground in Afghanistan?


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## MVZOOM (26/2/11)

I voted yes, as most of those Q's wrought true. I fear a prolonged period without beer, it's not something I would look forward to or encourage so by that definition, HFA I am. I also think it's not a great idea to think that just because everyone else seems to be the same, that it's OK. 

My personality seems to dictate black or white, all in or all out. So I know when it comes time to give it up, I'll probably end up a complete tee-totaller.

Interesting thoughts!

Cheers - Mike


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## of mice and gods (13/12/13)

Everything in moderation, including moderation


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