# Pasteurisation



## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

I read that many of the commercial breweries pasteurise their beer post fermentation before /during bottling.
Does anyone have experience with this and /or consider any advantage to increase shelf life from ageing home brew? 
Theoretically not that difficult, heat the beer to 60 -70c for 30-40 seconds?


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/6/16)

Theory is easy...

There is a reason why home brewers dont pasteurise...


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## danestead (4/6/16)

Usually the beers you would want to age are high in alcohol. There shouldn't be any reason why you need to pasturise your beer, assuming you practice proper sanitation processes.


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

Agreed I was just reading somewhere that it's a requirement of some retailers /distributors and wondered if craft guys did it too. Must put the cost up a bit when margins are already tight...


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/6/16)

Dont know of any craft breweries that are required to do it

I looked at setting up a Micro/Craft Brewery a while back and nothing was stated for the requirement to pasteurise

Coopers dont pasteurise their beer


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

Not a legislated requirement but I think most of the big guys do it. Some of the small ones too, probably helps lower insurance and increase shelf life. Coopers do well to avoid it but they likely have a rapid enough turnover and margin that their beer won't sit longer than 12 months.


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## GalBrew (4/6/16)

Ha!


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## MHB (4/6/16)

Mate you need to do a lot more reading up on Pasteurisation.
Pasteurisation kills everything in the bottle (well nearly) including yeast so its not a good option for bottle conditioned beers (rules out most home brewers and Coopers). Big breweries are filtering their beer and its all about presentation, in fact filtered Pasteurised beer tends to have a shorter shelf life than bottle conditioned beer mostly due to ongoing oxidisation.
Nearly all of your speculation in the post above is completely wrong and/or arse about, next time you have a brain wave, Google the subject, or read the Wikipedia entry, it will help people think your posts might be worth reading.
Mark


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/6/16)

^ What he said 



good4whatAlesU said:


> Agreed I was just reading somewhere that it's a requirement of some retailers /distributors and wondered if craft guys did it too. Must put the cost up a bit when margins are already tight...


Thats bullshit


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## timmi9191 (4/6/16)

Whenever the subject of pasteurisation comes up in discussion I refer back to the heinekin commercial where its tasted the same...

It tastes the same coz they process and pasteurised the shite out of everything so to remove seasonal change in malt and hop flavours..


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

Whoa! Cool your jets gentlemen (and i use the term loosely). MHB needs to have a sit down and a cool drink,
It's certainly not BS that some brewers use it, and it's certainly not BS that it must have a cost.
Whether or not it's a retailers suggestion may have been misplaced, but as i said i read in the following article that some retailers may insist on a decent shelf life, which some brewers use pasteurisation for.

http://www.tastingbeers.com/school/beer_production/12008584.html


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Agreed I was just reading somewhere that it's a requirement of some retailers /distributors and wondered if craft guys did it too. Must put the cost up a bit when margins are already tight...





good4whatAlesU said:


> Whoa! Cool your jets gentlemen (and i use the term loosely). MHB needs to have a sit down and a cool drink,
> It's certainly not BS that some brewers use it, and it's certainly not BS that it must have a cost.
> Whether or not it's a retailers suggestion may have been misplaced, but as i said i read in the following article that some retailers may insist on a decent shelf life, which some brewers use pasteurisation for.
> 
> http://www.tastingbeers.com/school/beer_production/12008584.html


Some breweries do use it. mainly the BIG 2.

And it aint a requirement either.

And MHB does actually know his stuff


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

Lol he may do and he may not.. Doesn't give him the right to be an A-hole.

I can see this forum is going to be fun


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Lol he may do and he may not.. Doesn't give him the right to be an A-hole.
> 
> I can see this forum is going to be fun


Welcome to the Asylum B)


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

Passionate men who drink.... What could go wrong


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## TheWiggman (4/6/16)

Before alleging or challenging anything I think the question of 'what is the purpose of pasteurising beer' should be asked. It's not milk, the reasons behind it are completely different and the choice of the brewer. Tooheys/Catlton/XXXX/West End etc wouldn't bother with the significant cost and trouble of pasteurising if there wasn't a damn good reason for it, and the reason isn't legislation. They do it primarily to cease biological activity inside the bottle to basically kill off fermentation, preventing bottle bombs and infection (correct me if I'm wrong). This ensures a more consistent product for the customers - which is what they expect - but as MHB says at risk of accelerating oxidation. Those mobs have enough control over the process though to keep that low.


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## MHB (4/6/16)

Just went back and reread the thread, and yes you got one thing right, there is a cost to pasteurisation.
The rest is wrong, misinformed, ill-informed or just arse about misunderstanding, considering the BS content I think I was being reasonably polite.

AHB is an interesting place, there are a lot of people here who know a hell of a lot about brewing and who are more than willing to help other brewers with any problems, if you want to know something ask a question or better do a little basic research.

But open a new thread on your second day as a member, well its only got three lines and each one demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject
Bottled beer is pasteurised in the bottle, look up tunnel pasteurisation
Pasteurised beers are more stable than bottle conditioned beers but often have shorter shelf life - stay "the same longer" not last longer. Its more about looks!
One minute at 60oC gives about 1Pu of sterilisation, you need something like 150Pu to 450Pu for problem beers. 30-40 seconds at 60-70oC isn't going to cut the mustard.

You might want to read up on Pasteurisation Units (Pu) and Sterilisation units - pretty fundamental to sterilising beer.
Like I said if you have questions or want to discuss brewing I hope you enjoy AHB - sprout crap and you will get called.
Mark


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

People make posts and ask questions because they would like to learn something.
Condescending people like you get your anger out by patronising them.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/6/16)

Basically..

The Big 2 pasteurise to keep the beer "stable" for a given period of time...more marketing and sales driven so that Joe Average gets the same tasting beer everytime. But you need good turnover to keep it "fresh"

Pasteurisation is detrimental to the long term storage & maturation of beer so its not something you want to do

To pasteurise a small batch would be a major task to do it properly.


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## good4whatAlesU (4/6/16)

Thanks Stu. That's what i was after.


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## danestead (5/6/16)

I think this thread got a bit serious, a bit too quick. I dont think anyone here meant to offend anyone.

MHB does know a heck of a lot about brewing. Listen to what he says.

My take on pasturisation is that the big brewers do it because they need a consistent, safe product. It zaps the flavour out of hops etc, thats why smaller craft breweries don't do and and advertise as such.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

Morning folks, bit windy up our way last night - hope everyone is safe and sound.

As i said earlier, right or wrong doesn't give people the excuse to be condescending... But some people are just born nasty.


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## MastersBrewery (5/6/16)

Some craft brewers do pasturise, case in point white rabbit dark ale, though it is then inoculated with a different strain for carbing.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

Ah good to know. I am currently investigating some contract brewing and it was the intent of original post to learn more about it.


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## tugger (5/6/16)

Even on a commercial scale pasteurisation is a pain in the ass. 
It all works well until the packing machine stops and bottles back up in the hot zone and before you know it. Popcorn. 
Most beers get around 20pu. Some less some more. Ciders run around 105 pu. But in time multiples of 62.5c.


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## tugger (5/6/16)

You have to look at co2 levels, there's a trade off between carbonation and pasteurisation, if you want over 6.2gl of co2 and 40pu it won't happen, all the lids will pop off. 
For cans you can get 100 pu but only at 5.3gl.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

Too much heat forcing the CO2 out of solution? ..
Anyway i think i have my answer, the real big guys (excepting coopers) do it and some of the craft guys too. Mainly to gain batch (and flavour consistency) - but if shelf life is assisted that's fine too.
The smaller guys don't worry about it (or don't want to do it) because they like to bottle condition and they think that killing the bad microbes, sacrifices the good flavour profile. As such they have confidence that their sanitation is up to scratch to fend off the nasties. It's not legislated so why waste time and cost (and possible offence to the hipster clientele).


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## MastersBrewery (5/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Too much heat forcing the CO2 out of solution? ..
> Anyway i think i have my answer, the real big guys (excepting coopers) do it and some of the craft guys too. Mainly to gain batch (and flavour consistency) - but if shelf life is assisted that's fine too.
> The smaller guys don't worry about it (or don't want to do it) because they like to bottle condition and they think that killing the bad microbes, sacrifices the good flavour profile. As such they have confidence that their sanitation is up to scratch to fend off the nasties. It's not legislated so why waste time and cost (and possible offence to the hipster clientele).


Really? Shelf life is reduced, CONSISTANT flavour profile enjanced.(that in no way means better flavour) Guess you've not had an aged beer. There are many ways to skin said cat, the more processes involed the more adjustments required to attain desired result.


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## MastersBrewery (5/6/16)

To be a little more specific but generalised big beers; imperial stouts, belgians will continue to improve with age much like a good red wine. Those depths of flavour cant be achieved any other way.


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## tugger (5/6/16)

If you are serious about a contract filling job I can point you in the right direction as far as what to look out for, what to test for and so on. 
I can also do the job you are looking for. 
If you are interested send me a pm, I don't want to infringe on any forum rules by talking about it in this thread.


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## Vini2ton (5/6/16)

I made a 5 litre batch of mead and bottled it in 330 ml stubbies. As an experiment I pasteurised half of it. Could not detect any difference in taste. Will never do it again, as it is totally unnecessary for a homebrewer of beer. Mind you I think the pasteurised mead made me much smarter after a few stubbies.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

tugger said:


> If you are serious about a contract filling job I can point you in the right direction as far as what to look out for, what to test for and so on.
> I can also do the job you are looking for.
> If you are interested send me a pm, I don't want to infringe on any forum rules by talking about it in this thread.


Thanks tugger maybe down the track. I'm not looking at the Australian market place.


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## good4whatAlesU (5/6/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> To be a little more specific but generalised big beers; imperial stouts, belgians will continue to improve with age much like a good red wine. Those depths of flavour cant be achieved any other way.


It is not possible to age e.g. in kegs or barrels THEN pasteurise upon bottling and selling to the market?

Not that i really want or need to pasteurise i just wanted to learn what is out there / how it's regulated and this discussion has been very helpful.


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> It is not possible to age e.g. in kegs or barrels


Wrong


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## manticle (5/6/16)

What was being asked was 'is it not possible to age THEN pasteurise


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## MastersBrewery (5/6/16)

The answer is yes you could but that would then halt the aging proçess and the paturised beer would have a on going life span of between 3-6 months. Un pasturised it could continue to age. A $3000 bottle of Grange hermatige is not pasturised if it were it'd be a $30 bottle of wine forever. Continue to age that $3000 bottle and in 10 years it'll be a $10000 bottle of wine.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Beer is not wine (nor whisky). Lower alcohol etc. would mean less long term preservation expectancy etc? 

Yes typo "is it not?" rather than"it is not"..


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Wrong


Lol see the little squiggly line at the end of my sentence which you edited out in your quote? .. That's called a "question mark" it looks like this. ? . Here it is again: ?
When you see that thing, it means someone is asking a question rather than making a statement.


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## klangers (6/6/16)

OK.

I work in industrial brewing packaging.

Two types of pasteurisation: flash past and tunnel past.

Flash pasteurisation is where it's heated rapidly to about 70-80 degrees and kept there for a few seconds, and then cooled. This all happens in a large heat exchanger that's sort of the opposite of a wort cooler. Flash pasts typically are placed on kegging lines, but are also common on European bottling lines. It has the advantage of not losing as much aroma as tunnel pasteurisation. Problem is, since you're pasting before filling, you need an expensive sterile filler.

Tunnel pasteurisation occurs after the bottles/cans are filled (does not happen on kegs for obvious reasons). They all enter a large tunnel where water of varying temperatures (depending on the position) is sprayed onto them. They endure a lower but longer pasteurisation which tends to affect aroma etc more. The advantage is that you don't need a controlled environment filler, as any bugs picked up along the filling process are killed.

Since pasteursation occurs at the packaging stage, it of course occurs after any conditioning/lagering/aging processes.

The only reason pasteurisation is used is to lower the _overall_ cost. It's not strictly necessary to do, however, means you can save money by not needing to control sterility as much. If you think controlling infections in home brew is difficult, think about how hard it is in large, complex pipelines, valve matrices and packaging machinery.

Typically, craft brewers don't pasteurise. It's not a requirement, but it does make sense economically for large brewers.


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## shacked (6/6/16)

Perhaps a little off topic but I was listening to an episode of the Sour Hour on my way to work this morning. There is an interesting discussion about pasteurisation and sour beer about 12 to 15 mins before the end.

Here is the link for anyone interested: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/3949-2/


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## wynnum1 (6/6/16)

Would they use _"ULTRA HIGH PRESSURE_ TREATMENTS ."


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## MastersBrewery (6/6/16)

wynnum1 said:


> Would they use _"ULTRA HIGH PRESSURE_ TREATMENTS ."


Nice question!! We know yeast is killed around 45-50 psi I wonder if other organisms would survive.


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## klangers (6/6/16)

Pascalisation (pasteurisation with pressure) is technically feasible, but the pressures required mean that it is very expensive and slow, and hence has not had any uptake in industry. It gets complicated with carbonated beverages as well.

You can't really do it at home, as you're talking pressures of at least 100-200 bar.


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## wynnum1 (6/6/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Nice question!! We know yeast is killed around 45-50 psi I wonder if other organisms would survive.


Story on landline avacadoes i think they quoted 87,000 psi, or 6,000 bar,


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Stick the beer in your Malvern Star tyres and start pumping


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## sp0rk (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Beer is not wine (nor whisky). Lower alcohol etc. would mean less long term preservation expectancy etc?
> 
> Yes typo "is it not?" rather than"it is not"..


Hops are anti microbial, they help with shelf life


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## Bribie G (6/6/16)

Pascalisation is currently being done in the milk industry to produce "raw" milk that hasn't been heat pasteurised.

As for pasteurisation's affect on flavour, try a schooner of fresh XXXX heavy off the wood and compare it to its sad brother out of a stubby .. chalk and cheese.


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## Judanero (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Lol see the little squiggly line at the end of my sentence which you edited out in your quote? .. That's called a "question mark" it looks like this. ? . Here it is again: ?
> When you see that thing, it means someone is asking a question rather than making a statement.





good4whatAlesU said:


> As i said earlier, right or wrong doesn't give people the excuse to be condescending...


Haha nice one, the circle is now complete.

Slightly OT: Am I right in thinking that if a vessel is maintained at 70c for 30 mins it will be pasteurised effectively, specifically if I half fill a FV with boiling water and let stand for 30 mins will that be sufficient (assuming the temperature range is maintained)? 

I currently use a combination of boiling water & sodium perc to clean, starsan then boiling water to sanitise- and am unlikely to change that because I have (touch wood) not had a infection yet, just interested from a hypothetical standpoint.


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## pcmfisher (6/6/16)

I am fairly sure Coopers pasteurise their non bottle conditioned beers ie light, lager, clear.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

So if you had a choice between a contract brewery (or building your own brewery) would you go for pasteurization or not?

Taking into consideration;

a) legal stuff 
b) bank stuff 
c) taste stuff
d) shelf life 

.. hypothetical from a bloke who hasn't two brass razoos


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## sp0rk (6/6/16)

To be honest, going in to building a contract brewery without knowing this stuff I don't think you're going to go too well...
If you're making craft-ish beers I wouldn't bother pasteurizing, plenty of craft beers around with long enough shelf lives that don't even bother


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## klangers (6/6/16)

Not a simple question, and so the answer is not simple either.

You're gonna have a bad time trying to put together a brewery without an understanding of any of the technical aspects - so I suggest you try to understand the underlying/fundamental science and answer these questions for yourself.

I'll make some assumptions.

Brewery 1

Scale - large (>200 million L per year)
Product - Lager; cider
Market - mass
*Pasteurisation: *Yes. 

Brewery 2

Scale - small (<2 million L per year)
Product - large range of boutique beers
Market - niche
Pasteurisation: No
Brewery 2

Scale - med/small
Product - contract brewery
Market - N/A
Pasteurisation - yes; if you're planning a contract brewery your set up should be as flexible as possible to allow more variation and hence more customers.


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## Killer Brew (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> So if you had a choice between a contract brewery (or building your own brewery) would you go for pasteurization or not?
> 
> Taking into consideration;
> 
> ...


No. As a craft brewer you need flavour, as many have said pasteurization is anti-flavour. Beer is a low risk food as far as safety goes provided foreign objects are avoided. I honestly can only see downside for pasteurizing at a small scale.


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## Killer Brew (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> So if you had a choice between a contract brewery (or building your own brewery) would you go for pasteurization or not?
> 
> Taking into consideration;
> 
> ...


Also, and I don't mean to crash anyone's dreams, but you will need a significant number of razoos to start even a small brewery. Think $600k - $1m to get producing plus initial cash flow to get you through.


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## MastersBrewery (6/6/16)

Note at less than 1/2 million litres a year your brewing for love .... by that I mean return on investment and time; your money would be better in an anuity. Yeah you'll still make a wage and possibly a profit, but margins will be tight, the ato will probably profit more than the bussiness.


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## Killer Brew (6/6/16)

If you are only brewing for the wholesale market then yes. If you can sell a significant portion (ie. above 25%) at retail then that is a game changer.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

klangers said:


> .... I suggest you try to understand the underlying/fundamental science and answer these questions for yourself.


Have a rough idea (Applied science degree, lead author publisher etc. etc.) but always can learn more. Everyone can learn. 



sp0rk said:


> To be honest, going in to building a contract brewery without knowing this stuff I don't think you're going to go too well...



.. who said I was 'going into building a brewery?" I hypothesized "if you had a choice between?" ..


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## sp0rk (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Have a rough idea (Applied science degree, lead author publisher etc. etc.) but always can learn more. Everyone can learn.
> 
> 
> 
> .. who said I was 'going into building a brewery?" I hypothesized "if you had a choice between?" ..


Chip, shoulder, etc...
Not meaning any offence mate, it's just we've seen plenty of people come in here all gung ho intent on setting up a brewery only having brewed for a short period of time and have it all end in tears.
Just trying to help you get prepared as best as you can if that's what you're aiming to do.


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## klangers (6/6/16)

I was only making a suggestion to learn more. If you have an applied science degree you'll know that science can get complex very quickly and not all answers are simple "to do X or not to do X". Understanding the fundamentals can help you see the trees for the wood.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Who's 'gung ho' on setting up a brewery?


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## MastersBrewery (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Ah good to know. I am currently investigating some contract brewing and it was the intent of original post to learn more about it.


 you or maybe your just a troll


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

.. Lol. Contract brewing is not the same thing as starting a brewery. Contract brewing is where you get someone else to do the brewing for you, because you understand the limitations of your knowledge and experience. 

I am not pretty to look at, I have been called "troll like" but am not actually a 'troll'


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## barls (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> I am not pretty to look at, I have been called "troll like" but am not actually a 'troll'


some of your responses have been bordering on it. especially the name calling and abuse when someone disagreed with your statements, which may have been incorrect. also its very hard to convey tone in the written media, take this in to account.
please read our forum rules and take note of rules 5,11, and 15.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

we are a fairly knowledgeable bunch and willing to give advice but not to people that just call people assholes for correcting the incorrect statements.
as stated previously we have had low experience people come in wanting to start or change the way things are done with little knowledge about why they are done that way and they mostly haven't listened and faded in to the ether.
saying that there are more ways to skin a cat and home brewing is similar. although kittens are only to used in airlocks.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

I started a thread on a reasonable topic and got jumped on from the start by some resident forum members.

I'm keen to learn and share the same as everyone else. But I'm not going to bullied.


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## GalBrew (6/6/16)

I think part of the problem here is that your knowledge base on the topic is so low that some of your questions come across as stupid (for want of a better term) to the point where some may infer trolling. Also some of your responses come across as quite agro potentially adding weight to this. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I think if you go off and research pasteurisation a bit more and then come back with more specific questions you may get a better reception. Either way I personally wouldn't worry about pasteurising craft beer due to the negative impact on flavour.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

I disagree. As i stated i have an applied science degree i know what pasteurization is. I was interested to know in a modern brewing context what it's use was and many of the above posts have been particularly helpful.


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## barls (6/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> I disagree. As i stated i have an applied science degree i know what pasteurization is. I was interested to know in a modern brewing context what it's use was and many of the above posts have been particularly helpful.


whoop de do. a applied science degree. the person you abused before it was removed has the brewing degree and he isn't the only one on here.
personally i hold trade certificates in a complicated field but you don't here me keep referring back to it. also we have members that hold pretty extensive degrees in out there fields. education level is irrelevant, its all about experience and passing it on.
also once again I'm going to point out its a home brewing forum not a commercial brewing forum so not many of us pasteurise as its not needed in the process. as has been stated many times already most of us don't want a limited shelf life which means the product won't change. half the fun in brewing is watching them age and change.


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## GalBrew (6/6/16)

I have a PhD and also know what pasteurisation is. While I know how to sterilise things in a lab setting, I have very little idea as to how that is practically achieved in a brewery. Specific application in a brewery setting was what I was referring to. Anyway, good luck on your quest, but even Carlton Draught tastes better when unpasteurised.


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## Vini2ton (6/6/16)

I often ask the bloke who sat my exams questions about applied science.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Thanks GB. That was also why i began the thread to learn more about pasteurization in the brewing industry. Many of the above posts were helpful and I have learn't a lot as a result. Others just wanted to have a crack at the noob.
All the best.


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## barls (6/6/16)

check your pms good4
also there a huge difference to having a crack at the noob and trying to educate him despite him not wanting to learn.
as i asked in the other thread are you an engineer?


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## Camo6 (6/6/16)

Maybe I'm missing something here but it sure as hell seems that the deputies shot first in this instance. The OP's not the first know it all on here so no reason for everyone to take on such a defensive stance. You all know we don't own this forum yeah?


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## good4whatAlesU (6/6/16)

Checked. 
There have been several useful posts which i gratefully acknowledged and some not so useful.
Thanks for asking but I'm not an engineer.


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## TheWiggman (6/6/16)

GalBrew said:


> ...but even Carlton Draught tastes better when unpasteurised.


I refuse to believe they could make Carlton Draught taste any better.


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## manticle (6/6/16)

Because it's already so delicious...?


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/6/16)

I think good4 has been drinking this whilst posting......would explain a lot


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## GrumpyPaul (6/6/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I think good4 has been drinking this whilst posting......would explain a lot


And it was pasteurized.


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## GalBrew (6/6/16)

TheWiggman said:


> I refuse to believe they could make Carlton Draught taste any better.


It's all relative.......


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## Danwood (6/6/16)

View attachment 89127


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## MastersBrewery (6/6/16)

TheWiggman said:


> I refuse to believe they could make Carlton Draught taste any better.


until it is legal to add *other herbs....


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/6/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> until it is legal to add *other herbs....


Reminds me of The Jovial Munk...


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## danestead (6/6/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> you or maybe your just a troll


I gave the bloke a chance at the beginning, but for a newly joined forum member, he/she definitely has some bold comments.


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## MastersBrewery (6/6/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Reminds me of The Jovial Munk...


I believe we need to share a beer/case there of to discuss.


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## /// (6/6/16)

Oh no, not the JM ...

Most contract plants, the main 2 small pack plants in NSW, will let bottle or can beer out unpasteurised. It's insurance.

I use one of those plants and the affect on hop oils is harsh. The other 2 issues are vdk and quicker styling if DO's are high. Had batches with vdk due to a rushed ferment and the cooling switched on to early. Thankfully none of those issues from current plant

Flash pasteurising has a good foothold in the us craft guys, suprised me when some the guys that do it. Anyways, beer in small packages, so much fun ...


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

danestead said:


> I gave the bloke a chance at the beginning, but for a newly joined forum member, he/she definitely has some bold comments.


hmmm.. Ever get that feeling you're being talked about while you're still in the room


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

/// said:


> Oh no, not the JM ...
> 
> Most contract plants, the main 2 small pack plants in NSW, will let bottle or can beer out unpasteurised. It's insurance.
> 
> ...


Thanks that's useful information. Would it be possible to please elaborate on VDK?

edit. Ah diacetyl - didn't recognise the acronym.


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## barls (7/6/16)

diacetyl is one of the 3 in there


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## klangers (7/6/16)

/// said:


> Oh no, not the JM ...
> 
> Most contract plants, the main 2 small pack plants in NSW, will let bottle or can beer out unpasteurised. It's insurance.
> 
> ...


\\\, did you by chance mean "Most contract plants, the main 2 small pack plants in NSW, will *NOT* let bottle or can beer out unpasteurised. It's insurance." ?


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## tugger (7/6/16)

That's what he ment. 
And the term vdk is visceral diketone. 
Incorrect spelling.


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## GalBrew (7/6/16)

Vdk = vicinal diketone


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## MHB (7/6/16)

Vicinal Diketone*s*
Diacetyl is one of them, admittedly most of the VDK in beer is diacetyl, perhaps the most detectable, but it isn't the only one.
A bit like Ethanol may represent over 99% of the alcohols in a beer but it would be wrong to underestimate the effects of other higher alcohols on the flavour.
Mark


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

klangers said:


> \\\, did you by chance mean "Most contract plants, the main 2 small pack plants in NSW, will *NOT* let bottle or can beer out unpasteurised. It's insurance." ?


Thanks guys. apologies for my nativity but it sounds like if a contract brewer wanted an aged style beer it would have to be aged prior to leaving the factory.

or rather 'better to be aged' prior to leaving the factory.


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

At least in NSW.


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## Ducatiboy stu (7/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Thanks guys. apologies for my nativity but it sounds like if a contract brewer wanted an aged style beer it would have to be aged prior to leaving the factory.
> 
> or rather 'better to be aged' prior to leaving the factory.


Only if he wanted to sell it as an "aged beer"... Consumer law would dictate if they could sell it as "aged" or not

It does not have to be aged to leave the brewery, and does not have to be pasteurised


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## sp0rk (7/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Thanks guys. apologies for my nativity but it sounds like if a contract brewer wanted an aged style beer it would have to be aged prior to leaving the factory.
> 
> or rather 'better to be aged' prior to leaving the factory.


Yes and no
Some brewers will age before packaging, others (like Murrays with their Anniversary Ale) say it can be drunk fresh, but that it will continue to age and get better over say the next 10 years


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

Okay good to know, thanks. Not simple.
For marketing and consistency this would be tricky.
much appreciated.


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## sp0rk (7/6/16)

And actually, I realise I'm even kind of wrong there
Murrays (sometimes) age for a while in casks then bottle, and say the beer can be aged longer
It will apply differently from beer to beer, and brewer to brewer
Experiment and pick a style that suits you, I guess


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## good4whatAlesU (7/6/16)

good4whatAlesU said:


> apologies for my nativity


That's what i get typing with one hand whilst working up a ladder. 

Did the 'nativity' have anything to do with beer? I suppose they were in a stable.. there could have been grain.


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