# Flame Out Hop Additions Or Hop Tea For Nochill Method



## Pumpy (8/10/09)

If we No Chill our wort 

Should we NOT be adding the flame out aroma hops at Zero minutes 

But when we are ready to Ferment the Wort by say making a hop tea (as suggested by Crundle)

so we dont loose the aroma at the No Chill method ?

Whats your opinion 

Pumpy :unsure:


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## clean brewer (8/10/09)

Hey Pumpy,

Ive been working on my No-Chill hop additions for a little while now and depending on the Style, I now do my normal Bittering addition or FWH and then Flavour addition goes into the cube before draining wort and then I either dry hop or hop tea into fermenter after 7-10 days.....  

:icon_cheers: CB


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## raven19 (8/10/09)

I have been adding my aroma hops to the primary fermenter after 7 days so the yeast does not strip too much aroma during the peak fermentation period.


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## Fourstar (8/10/09)

Hey pumpy,

I take an outlandish approach, my 20-5min hops are added at flameout.
Flameout hops are added to the cube for cube hopping.
Whirlpool hops are added to the cube when its @ 70deg.

I find the uber late cube hop gives me the best aroma properties without the resinous/stickiness you can get from dryhopping.


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## Pumpy (8/10/09)

Raven yes I use that method seven days into the fermenter .

CB do you actually leave the hops in the cube ?

Fourstar Perhaps I should try adding the hops to the cube at least aromas would be contained.

I am thinking should I let the cube cool and then wen ready toadd the O min addition make a hop tea!!

Pumpy


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## raven19 (8/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> Hey pumpy,
> 
> I take an outlandish approach, my 20-5min hops are added at flameout.
> Flameout hops are added to the cube for cube hopping.
> ...



Not trying to pull this thread off topic but your thoughts on opening the cube at 70 deg to add whirlpool hops? I dare say minimal risk of infection at this stage, but I would be nervous about leaving the cube for a week or more prior to yeast pitching.

In saying that I may tweak my methods on upcoming brews to align with your methods above to see (taste!) the effects.


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## crundle (8/10/09)

I make my bittering and flavour additions as normal, then cube the wort and ferment as normal. I then make my aroma addition using the French Press method and add it directly to the keg of cold beer to trap all of the aroma and cool the hop tea down very quickly. I normally gas up my beers over about 10 days, and don't seem to have any issues with the aroma.

Out of interest, what is the reason that others add the aroma addition during fermentation? I can only assume that it gives the yeast time to somehow interact with it, or that the action of fermentation may drive off some of the more volatile characteristics with the venting of CO2?

Might be a good opportunity for me to do a side by side fermentation of a DSGA and add the hop tea to the fermenter for one and the keg for the other to see what effect it might have, in profile, intensity and length of time the aroma lasts in the keg.

Crundle


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## Fourstar (8/10/09)

raven19 said:


> Not trying to pull this thread off topic but your thoughts on opening the cube at 70 deg to add whirlpool hops? I dare say minimal risk of infection at this stage, but I would be nervous about leaving the cube for a week or more prior to yeast pitching.
> 
> In saying that I may tweak my methods on upcoming brews to align with your methods above to see (taste!) the effects.



40 odd batches and no infection in the cube yet. The longest ive had one in the cube was for around 6weeks~. Until i get a cube infection, im not planning on changing my ways anytime soon!  If it aint broke, dont fix it!

The reading i take is from the exterior of the cube (sight thermo). So it may not be exactly correct, at that stage in the process i can't be arsed to sanitise my probe thermometer to check the temp. Who knows it may actually be 80 deg! I guess the other option is you whirlpool then wait until it gets to 70deg in the kettle before transferring to the cube.

Also take note i clean and sanitize my cubes and transfer line the same way i do with my fermenters. Thats rigourously! I consider it cold side like you do if you chill via a plate or coil.

Cheers! :beerbang:


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## raven19 (8/10/09)

crundle said:


> Out of interest, what is the reason that others add the aroma addition during fermentation? I can only assume that it gives the yeast time to somehow interact with it, or that the action of fermentation may drive off some of the more volatile characteristics with the venting of CO2?



:icon_offtopic: Hand over the mill and I shall let you know....   

Seriously though, I dont add hops until after peak fermentation, otherwise the yeast will strip a lot of goodies from the hops.

You could add the hops when pitching the yeast, but the hop effects on the beer would be a lot more subtle.

Any volatility would be reduced by the yeast surely as it cleans up the beer too...

I am thinking some side by side experiments may be required too!


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## raven19 (8/10/09)

Good to hear Fourstar. I knew you were on top of your game, just thought I'd ask! B)


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## Bribie G (8/10/09)

For me it depends on the hop. I made a super malty ESB with Fuggles, Goldings the usual suspects. I note from various UK breweries' websites that they are now using a bit of US hops, particularly Cascade, in some of their new ales. So I made a hop tea with 20g of Cascade and tipped into cold conditioning about 3 days before bottling. The Cascade stomped all over the other hops - nice beer but I won't do that again. However I have no argument with using hop tea made from Styrian Goldings or EKG. My latest fake lager is all Green Bullet with a final burst of hop tea a couple of days before kegging and it's turned out with almost the same aroma / bitterness as Steinlager pure so I'll do that again. 

I'm also going to try Fourstar's giant tea ball he sent me, with a couple of plugs of Styrian Goldings straight into the keg with a TTL style beer to see how that goes, and do a later brew with the same amount of Styrians made into hop tea and put into cold conditioning and see how that compares.


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## Fourstar (8/10/09)

BribieG said:


> I'm also going to try Fourstar's giant tea ball he sent me, with a couple of plugs of Styrian Goldings straight into the keg with a TTL style beer to see how that goes, and do a later brew with the same amount of Styrians made into hop tea and put into cold conditioning and see how that compares.



Take note Bribie, those hop balls hold 1 plug comfortably with around 3/4 headspace left. i'd say 2 plugs would have it almost busting at the seams (doesnt hurt to give it a try though). I'd think you may have utilization problems if its that full too as the hops in the middle of the tea ball may not have sufficient contact with the beer.

Maybe try 1 1/2 plugs by pulling one apart and in 1/2 maybe?

Cheers.


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## Barley Belly (8/10/09)

I'm only an AG newby and are a 2V, 60min Boil, No-Chiller

My last few brews I have been doing 

45min Bittering hop
0min Flameout Pre-Whirlpool Flavour hop
(After 20min whirlpool rest) Aroma addition while it is draining into the cube

Been turning out quite nice


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## Nick JD (8/10/09)

I've been known to add 20g of powdered hop pellets to my priming sugar. I just spoon the greeny sugar into the bottles as I'm priming. Works a treat for super aroma.

I'm not sure if it would get grassy after a month or two, but my beers almost never make it to that age.


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## Cocko (8/10/09)

On a side note:

Does anyone know the temperature that hops continue to bitter down to? I have heard about 90 deg.

As in, if you did a 60 addition and then your cube takes 20 minutes to get below 90 deg, or what ever the figure is, isn't that like 80 minutes of bittering... and a 30 addition becomes 50 etc....

Or am I way off track here? Or is there a thread someone could direct me to on this already?

Cheers


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## Fourstar (8/10/09)

Cocko said:


> Does anyone know the temperature that hops continue to bitter down to? I have heard about 90 deg.
> Cheers




I think thirstyBoy had some figures about isomerisation temps. From memory i believe it was 60deg, hence the reason why i do my cube hopping at 70deg. Its also noted that pH can effect isomerisation. if you drop your pH low enough you may be able to add them hotter and curb bitterness of the acids whilst still keeping the aromatic volatiles. These may also break dwon with those hotter temperature exposure times however.

Would be interesting to know either way.


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## MarkBastard (8/10/09)

That's a very good question Cocko, as it's the one variable that matters most for this discussion!

Are there any drawbacks to the 'hop tea into the keg' method? It sounds so good I don't know why it wouldn't be the default method for keggers, that is unless there are draw backs.


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## Thirsty Boy (8/10/09)

The rate of isomerization drops off very quickly lower than 100.. but continues down to about 75 before it becomes basically insignificant. You have to remember though, that you have a long time at those sub boiling but still high temperatures. So what you miss out on in rate of change, you make up for in time for change to happen.

I have done a few experiments on this, both sensory and measuring IBUs in the lab; and my results suggest that adding Pellet hops loose into a cube (racked after whirlpool approx 90-95C) gives you a bitter quotient equivalent to adding the same amount of hops at 20-25 minutes from the end of the boil. Put em in a hop bag or tea ball, use flower hops or both... its going to be less, maybe significantly less. If you use a lot of IBUs worth of cube hops.. I suspect the utilization will also drop off. I have and know that others have tried; an all cube hop beer - calculated at 25mins equivalent... and the beer was under bitter. So if you were going to try that (it gives amazing flavour and aroma...) I would be thinking more along the lines of equal to 15mins in the boil.

I add pretty much any hop that isn't a straight bittering addition into the cube - this cuts the amount of bittering hop I need to use and gives really fantastic hop flavour plus a deep (although not intense) kettle hop aroma. IMO, you don't get the more volatile/resinous/perfumey aromas that you can get from a whirpool or hopback addition... the prolonged heat changes those compounds. 

I don't think you can replicate kettle hopping with dry hopping - they are different. So when I want that hopback/whirlpool type aroma, I find that a hop tea, added at 2/3rds attenuation does the trick. I add the hops to a coffee plunger, give them 1 minute contact with 500ml of boiling water - plunge and tip the water into the fermenter - then I add another 500ml of boiling water and give them 3-5 mins contact, plunge and tip.

The reasons for this method are - To emulate a hopback via

Actual contact with hot liquid
But short contact followed very quickly by rapid cooling.

So the Terpene fractions of the hop oils have a chance to interact with the heat and oxidise a bit, but the hydrocarbons have minimal (but some) chance to volatilize.

I add at 2/3rds through fermentation so that neither contact with the yeast nor C02 stripping has too much of a chance to drive off the aroma I went to so much trouble to make... but so there _is_ a little of both of those things during the last part of active fermentation... which tends to smooth out any harsh or grassy characteristics. You could add the tea at the very end of fermentation.. but I would go for a longer steep time on the hops to smooth it out a bit, this would mean more hops to get the same level of aroma compounds in the beer. Or just cold conditioning the beer for an extra week or two.

Thats how I do it anyway

TB


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## Hutch (8/10/09)

Awesome detail there TB. Glad you could put all that expensive equipment to good use!


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## brendo (8/10/09)

Hutch said:


> Awesome detail there TB. Glad you could put all that expensive equipment to good use!




instead of evil... h34r:


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## clean brewer (8/10/09)

> CB do you actually leave the hops in the cube ?



Yes I do...  

I keep forgetting to take a temp reading of the wort after whirlpooling and letting sit for 20min before I drain into cube just to see what temp the wort is just before draining into the cube.... I read that Hops really stop doing much at about 80 degrees? :unsure: 

:icon_cheers: CB


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## jlm (8/10/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I have done a few experiments on this, both sensory and measuring IBUs in the lab; and my results suggest that adding Pellet hops loose into a cube (racked after whirlpool approx 90-95C) gives you a bitter quotient equivalent to adding the same amount of hops at 20-25 minutes from the end of the boil. Put em in a hop bag or tea ball, use flower hops or both... its going to be less, maybe significantly less. If you use a lot of IBUs worth of cube hops.. I suspect the utilization will also drop off. I have and know that others have tried; an all cube hop beer - calculated at 25mins equivalent... and the beer was under bitter. So if you were going to try that (it gives amazing flavour and aroma...) I would be thinking more along the lines of equal to 15mins in the boil.



Very informative stuff TB. Have been leading myself to this conclusion lately. Have brewed a few lightly bittered hoppy summer ale type things recently and have found them way too bitter. Latest was a stab at a Stone and Wood type deal and after digging up a thread where some one (Maxt?) pointed out a 0 min addition with a high AA hop like galaxy will leave you with a very bitter beer. I FWH with 5g, had a 5 min addition of about 15g and cube hopped when it reached around 80 deg C on the outside of the cube and while it has a lovely aroma, is still pehaps a touch too bitter (although this is straight from the fermenter, when chilled and carbed I'm hoping it may be muted a little bit. :unsure: . To me anyway.


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## kabooby (8/10/09)

I add flame out additions for most of my beers that require a hop aroma. If I want to increase the hop aroma than I will dry hop in the fermenter about 4 days into fermentation. This adds a different type of aroma but compliments a flame out addition.

I dont think this chart is that accurate. IMO the flavour and aroma of hops are closly related. You can get hop aroma @30min and hop flavour @10min. Use it as a rough guide for hop utilisation maybe.

Kabooby


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## glaab (8/10/09)

I thought I'd check that chart against beersmith, this is the plot with a single hop addition [50g Simcoe not that I expect it matters]. I though some of you might be interested to see it, sorry about hijack Pumpy.


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## raven19 (9/10/09)

This thread should be airlocked with the golden info contained in here from TB and others.

Thanks for expanding on that.


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## Nick JD (9/10/09)

What is flavour? 

What is aroma?

The tongue can "taste" five things. The nose, hundreds. 

When drinking beer, the tongue picks up the hop bitterness and the malt sweetness (and perhaps a tiny amount of hop sour) ... every thing else is aroma. 

Everything. 

That graph is nonsense.


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## glaab (9/10/09)

Nick JD said:


> What is flavour?
> 
> What is aroma?
> 
> ...



Thanks for your "input". You have no idea how much I value your opinion.


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## Hutch (9/10/09)

Nick JD said:


> What is flavour?
> 
> What is aroma?
> 
> ...


Very naive and pointless contribution to this discussion mate!
Hop sour. WTF?


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## Fourstar (9/10/09)

Mods, Delete posts 26 and those assoicated!


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## Thirsty Boy (9/10/09)

brendo said:


> instead of evil... h34r:



Or so it seems -- mwah hah ha ha haaaaa (check the blurb under my avatar)


There are two parts to the bittering in the cube argument.... there have been quite a few threads about it and a bit of a search will lead to many posts (a lot of them by me.. I have a bug up my bum about it - so I dont mind having another shot here  )

There is - *Add some actual hops into the cube*.

I don't think anyone is arguing seriously that this won't add a chunk of bitterness. Any debate is around how much bitterness it adds - and whether the flavour/aroma it adds is worth the bother. I think we have the "boiling equivalent" reasonably bracketed... I reckon 20-25 mins for loose pellet hops... I think the lowest guestimate I have heard is about 10. So really, you are only a brew or three away from sorting it out for yourself by experimentation.

There is also *Will late additions continue to isomerise in te cube, adding bitterness?*

Now this one is far from sorted.

I reckon yes. My reasoning is that the alpha acids dissolve in the hot wort fairly quickly (if you use pellets) and that those alpha acids go into the cube regardless of whether the hops themselves do. So with a flame out addition, a goodly chunk of the alpha acids will actually dissolve into the wort, go into the cube, partially isomerise and add bitterness.

This tends to support the "my No-chilled beers are often over bitter" question that is frequently asked -- but doesn't explain the people who don't notice an increase.

I have mucked about with my brewing results (no lab tests yet) pro-mash and a calculator... and I reckon that you are likely to get a bitterness contribution from any hop addition in a no chilled beer, equal to 10-15 minutes extra boiling. So your 30minute hops.. are like 40min hops, you 60mins are like 70 and you flame out hops are like 10 minute hops. This sort of explains why it sometimes seems to happen, and sometimes doesn't.

Consider... an english bitter. Moderate hop additions of low alpha hops. Probably mostly all done in a 60 minute boil anyway.. so a little extra on the bittering addition is going to only add an ibu or two... and a flame out addition of say a 4% fuggles or something similar... only another IBU or two. Add really, our palates are struggling to pick up a bitterness diffference under 5 or so IBUs. So.... "what are you talking about, no-chill doesn't make a difference to bitterness".

Same thing on a 30IBU APA... ignoring the bittering addition, it might make a difference but we dont need it for this argument. Take a 20min 5min addition of simcoe at 13% - pro mash (rager) says that will add 12IBU... change that 5 min addition to a 15min addition (add 10 mins) and suddenly we are talking 19IBus, enough to notice, at the upper end of the scale assuming 15mins extra... it adds 24IBU or double the original. Imagine if you had a 30min flavour addition in there as well?

So - do late additions add bitterness?? Answer, maybe - depending on the beer, depending on the hops etc etc. I think if you assume all your additions will behave as though they were boiled for 10 mins longer than they actually were... you will be close to the mark.

BUT .... other good and knowledgeable brewers think I have it all wrong and the effect is much less, or not there at all. So at the end of the day you need to decide if you see a difference. If you do, hopefully all this typing will give you a framework for how you might start to work out how to compensate. If not, well, I'm all wrong and you can safely ignore me.

Hop additions are tricky... people have been shoving hops in beer for centuries. And even with normal additions they cant agree on how they will behave. Thats why there are three formula for bittering in promash... I dont know how many in Beersmith and the other brewing software. And none of them agree on how many IBUs a simple 60min addition will add. If we can even get close with the no-chill stuff. We are doing allright.

Besides... take no notice of me. I am evil remember :lol: 

TB


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## MarkBastard (9/10/09)

Thirsty Boy, does that mean if I use a conical stainless steel hop sock when boiling, and I add my bittering addition, and want to empty out the spent hops before adding in my flavour addition, that oils will already be dissolved so I won't be wasting the hops by taking them out mid boil?

Does that make sense?

I always wondered because I sort of run out of room haha.


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## Pumpy (9/10/09)

raven19 said:


> This thread should be airlocked with the golden info contained in here from TB and others.
> 
> Thanks for expanding on that.




Your right raven19 there are some great contributions ,I am going to print this one off 

You get more off the forum than you can read in a book , TB may have written a book he is so prolific 


pumpy


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## Darren (9/10/09)

TB, Seing how you have results about hop levels following "cube" additions, perhaps you could get some results concerning dissolved plasticisers in hot wort as well? I believe you mentioned you could taste then in previous posts?

If plasticisers are not a problem, perhaps you could get CUB to chuck their stainless boilers and coils and move to a whole plastic set-up? Would be a whole lot cheaper for them and would of course be perfectly safe h34r: 

cheers

Darren


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## Barley Belly (9/10/09)

It's always refreshing to hear some constructive criticism :huh:


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## AntCoop (9/10/09)

man... what is your issue with your cryptic trolling posts? this is a very informative thread with knowledge from guys that have no chilled and trying to achieve a goal of making the best beer they can...your post has no input whatsoever. Who gives a rats about CUB and changing to plastic?....rant off


EDIT : mods please remove this dribble trolling this thread had very good feedback from brewers giving information to fellow brewers regarding no chilling


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## Bribie G (9/10/09)

Darren said:


> TB, Seing how you have results about hop levels following "cube" additions, perhaps you could get some results concerning dissolved plasticisers in hot wort as well? I believe you mentioned you could taste then in previous posts?
> 
> If plasticisers are not a problem, perhaps you could get CUB to chuck their stainless boilers and coils and move to a whole plastic set-up? Would be a whole lot cheaper for them and would of course be perfectly safe h34r:
> 
> ...



I find that the plasticers from my no chill cube are masked by the chemicals leaking out of my BIAB bag so I don't generally notice them, especially when they get mixed well with the plasticisers from my fermenter and PET bottles. :icon_cheers:


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## Darren (9/10/09)

You boil your beer before bottling Bribie or just a committed plastic guy?

Make no mistake, leaving hot wort in plastic containers has the potential for causing additional health problems over and above those from drinking the alcohol contained in the beer itself. But, I only guess that time will tell  

cheers

darren


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## jlm (9/10/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> So - do late additions add bitterness?? Answer, maybe - depending on the beer, depending on the hops etc etc. I think if you assume all your additions will behave as though they were boiled for 10 mins longer than they actually were... you will be close to the mark.
> 
> After tasting the beer I posted about earlier, that I gave a good deal of thought about with regard to NC late hopping bitterness ( I just trade marked that term and demand royalties.), I agree... but,
> 
> ...




Ooohhh, my really insightful comments turned up in TB's (quoted) post. 31Yrs old and still haven't mastered the internet. Can't be assed trying to change it.


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## raven19 (9/10/09)

Pumpy said:


> Your right raven19 there are some great contributions ,I am going to print this one off
> 
> You get more off the forum than you can read in a book , TB may have written a book he is so prolific
> 
> ...



+1 its saved in my favourites too!


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## Thirsty Boy (10/10/09)

Darren said:


> TB, Seing how you have results about hop levels following "cube" additions, perhaps you could get some results concerning dissolved plasticisers in hot wort as well? I believe you mentioned you could taste then in previous posts?
> 
> If plasticisers are not a problem, perhaps you could get CUB to chuck their stainless boilers and coils and move to a whole plastic set-up? Would be a whole lot cheaper for them and would of course be perfectly safe h34r:
> 
> ...



If you can show me how that is relevant to this discussion of hop bitterness for people who have already decided that they are happy to use no-chill... then you have something useful to contribute here. If not... then you are simply making a straight anti no-chill argument and perhaps you could re-post that in the relevant thread?

BTW - I assume you have alerted the relevant authorities to what you must consider to be a significant public health issue.... what with all those retailers selling fresh wort kits that are after all just commercial no-chills?

It would of course be your reasonable civic duty, as a respected scientist, to point out to the authorities that you have identified a commercial practice that in your considered opinion represents a real danger to the consumers of the products in question - and being the public spirited person you so obviously are, you have of course acted. So naturally I will keep an eye on the homebrew shops, and when fresh wort kits start to be withdrawn from sale due to the health risks they pose (righteously pointed out to the health department by yourself). I will immediately stop no-chilling and write you a truly contrite public apology for having doubted the wisdom of your advice.

Unless of course you haven't reported this issue.... in which case you are either less than confident that you are right, a coward; or are indeed the rampant trolling twat that you are sometimes accused of being.

Lets wait and see which it is hmmmm


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## MarkBastard (10/10/09)

Geez Thirsty Boy I would have just called him a wanker.


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## matti (10/10/09)

Thirsty you evil poser. :lol: 
I have manage to listen to a few pod casts lately and it appears that Australia No-chill Kings because of AHB.
Hop addition in no-chill TB is very logically described that the isomerization continues and it would be really interesting to see the IBU measured to see at what rate the isomerization ware off as the temperature lowers.

:icon_offtopic: Some people chuck the cubes into pool and get get pool water into them. Rapid No-chill to no beer.

If you want aroma and no dry hopping chucking hop into cube is the go.

I just like to know how many No-chiller get break in there cube and would not the break material interfere or subdue the hop in the cube somewhat?



Matti


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## Nick JD (11/10/09)

Hutch said:


> Very naive and pointless contribution to this discussion mate!
> Hop sour. WTF?



There are two chemicals in hops that trigger the sour receptors in your tongue. 

Your tongue can not and will not percieve anything but sweet, salt, bitter, sour and umami (msg). 

EVERYTHING ELSE IS DONE WITH YOUR NOSE. So seperating "flavour" from "aroma" is nonsense when they are one and the same.

It would be naive to assume that flavour and aroma are distinct. 

As an example ... I challenge you to make a beer with flavour, yet with no aroma. That graph seems to indicate this is possible.

If you've ever met someone who has lost their sense of smell (but not taste) you will learn that nothing they eat has any flavour.


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## manticle (11/10/09)

The graph is not necessarily nonsense though. If you examine it you'll see that there is some level of aroma and some level of flavour present simultaneously at most points. 

While the tongue is limited in its sensations, as you point out it is able to detect simple things such as bitter, sour etc. Therefore someone who has anosmia should still be able to detect these. Olfactory and taste are closely linked but they are not one and the same.

I'm assuming the graph is measuring perceived flavour rather than deciding which sensory organ it comes from so dismiss it too readily is to ignore its purpose (which is as a basic guide rather than as a dogmatic scientific assertion).


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## Thirsty Boy (12/10/09)

matti said:


> I just like to know how many No-chiller get break in there cube and would not the break material interfere or subdue the hop in the cube somewhat?
> 
> Matti



With no-chill, you are always going to get cold break happening in the cube... I know that hot break takes out a chunk of bitterness, but I don't know about cold break? Its a slightly different beast. But I reckon its probably safe to assume that it does.

This is another reason why the hop teas are so effective. You can use them for aroma as talked about earlier, but you can also use them to trim bitterness (just gotta boil the tea for longer) and you need less hops for a given flavour impact. You don't lose bittering to break material, if you add later on in fermentation, you don't lose so much bittering stuck to the yeast - but you pay the piper a little if you try to get _too_ much bitterness out of the tea.. because you lose utilisation due to high alpha acid concentration.


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## Hutch (12/10/09)

Nick JD said:


> seperating "flavour" from "aroma" is nonsense when they are one and the same.
> 
> It would be naive to assume that flavour and aroma are distinct.


The terms "Flavour" and "Aroma" are simply collectives used to categorise hop (and malt) aromatics in terms of how they are perceived in beer. Both are indeed detected by the nose receptors, however both are the result of our perceptions of different hop volatiles/oils. 

"Aroma" compounds are higly volatile, and we smell them before tasting the beer.
"Flavour" compounds are the less volatile oils, which are perceived when the beer warms in the mouth releasing CO2. 

The aroma/flavour graph shown in the original post simply indicates the rate which these compounds are boiled-off, with the highly volatile aroma compounds lasting a matter of minutes, and flavour compounds lasting considerably longer.


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## Nick JD (12/10/09)

Hutch said:


> The terms "Flavour" and "Aroma" are simply collectives used to categorise hop (and malt) aromatics in terms of how they are perceived in beer. Both are indeed detected by the nose receptors, however both are the result of our perceptions of different hop volatiles/oils.
> 
> "Aroma" compounds are higly volatile, and we smell them before tasting the beer.
> "Flavour" compounds are the less volatile oils, which are perceived when the beer warms in the mouth releasing CO2.
> ...



Cheers, Hutch. Makes sense - and thanks for being willing to discuss the subject.


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