# Where have they gone?



## dicko (7/2/15)

This article from HBT http://www.homebrewtalk.com/brewer-interview-melana-di-domenico-spalding.html
has prompted me to ask the question of AHB.

Do we have any current women brewers on here?

I know that there has been a few in the past but they appear to have gone or moved on, or maybe put off by the shenanigans on here before the clean up.

The above article indicates that some women on that forum offer some great contributions to brewing and cooking. 
It would be great to have a similar input on AHB


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## Yob (7/2/15)

There are a few I know of, regulars like.


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## Bribie G (7/2/15)

I'd guess the "old" forum with the constant bikini girl pin ups from the likes of Chappo (fine lad that he is), the porkspins and the deification of goat goddesses would have put off many of whatever female members we had.

Funnily enough another forum that I occasionally visit, to do with curry, is mostly male as well despite being a cooking forum where you'd expect a bigger female presence.

Other forums that I visit to do with gardening and nutrition seem to be fairly equally balanced.


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## wide eyed and legless (7/2/15)

Considering, historically, women were the ones that brewed the beer my father tells me that his grandmother made the beer and the wines, elderberry, elderflower, parsnip, rhubarb, nettle etc. But now it does seem to be a man's domain, probably due to the spare time on our hands as opposed to decades ago when work constituted of a six day week.
Gardening and cooking I can understand a good mix of both sexes being involved, though, and I am not being sexist I do think in a lot of cases a man would be a better cook, we do seem to research more into whatever we do.


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## Bribie G (7/2/15)

Tech forums such as DTV forum seem to be almost exclusively male as well, also motoring forums.

O.T.... took my female friend round the car yards last year ... she sat in a Hyundai Elantra that ticked all the boxes for size, price range, repairability, running costs etc, it was black. Didn't like it .. not comfortable.. controls all in the wrong place. Over the road she sat in another car ... "Wow, I love this, it's got me written all over it... ". She still gets a thrill every morning when she looks into the garage. Hyundai Elantra, same year and model as the black one. It's white.


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## Spiesy (7/2/15)

Bribie G said:


> same year and model as the black one. It's white.


Lol


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## manticle (7/2/15)

Chicks are funny.


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## manticle (7/2/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> and I am not being sexist I do think in a lot of cases a man would be a better cook, we do seem to research more into whatever we do.


Saying 'I'm not being sexist' prior to making a comment that is exactly a sexist one, doesn't prevent it being so.

'I'm not sexist but I reckon blokes are better' is the gist.

It's a belief or assumption about a large group based on nothing solid.


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## wide eyed and legless (7/2/15)

manticle said:


> Saying 'I'm not being sexist' prior to making a comment that is exactly a sexist one, doesn't prevent it being so.
> 
> 'I'm not sexist but I reckon blokes are better' is the gist.
> 
> It's a belief or assumption about a large group based on nothing solid.


For some people it's a problem but not for me, there is lots of things a man can do better and vice versa, the statement of 'not being sexist' is for those who do have a problem.


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## Killer Brew (7/2/15)

Will tread carefully here as I'm new and don't want to put anyone offside but will provide some criticism that is hopefully constructive.

Perhaps the issue of attracting more female forum contributors isn't one of it being too "male orientated" but one of it being not overly welcome to new members especially those with little experience. Possibly there are some who peruse the forums but don't feel confident enough to join in.

Now don't get me wrong as there are some great resources on here with stickies, old threads etc however if you look at response rates to those introducing themselves or asking questions in Kits and Extracts it is quite low and seems to be left to a few helpul individuals (eg. Yob, Manticle, BribieG). In fact in one of my first posts asking for help I got smashed by one experienced poster.

As a point of comparison a few years back I got into kayak fishing (with a similar degree of knowledge as I brought to brewing ie bugger all). Joined a popular forum and from the outset was bombarded with guidance from experienced members (eg. PM's from locals wanting to take me out, proactive approaches with key safety info etc.) Their patience with newbies seemed endless and if it was ever noted that the response rates to introductory posts / beginner questions had dropped off then the Mods provided a prompting to lift it back up. They knew that today's newbies often go on to be tomorrow's contributors and replenish the population to keep a healthy forum so are worth investing the time and effort into. There were also a reasonable number of women participating there. Coincidence? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Anyhow, the above is provided in good faith as perhaps food for thought. Peace out.


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## Matplat (7/2/15)

manticle said:


> Saying 'I'm not being sexist' prior to making a comment that is exactly a sexist one, doesn't prevent it being so.
> 
> 'I'm not sexist but I reckon blokes are better' is the gist.
> 
> It's a belief or assumption about a large group based on nothing solid.


Not sure I agree with you there Manticle, you can generalise, based on observations you have made along the path of life, while also accepting that your generalisation is just that, and that it is entirely possible for exceptions to your rule to exist.

It would be sexist to say that it is impossible for any good female cooks to exist due to there gender.

Anyway... Not sure I agree with the original comment in the first place!


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## Matplat (7/2/15)

Killer Brew said:


> Will tread carefully here as I'm new and don't want to put anyone offside but will provide some criticism that is hopefully constructive.
> 
> Perhaps the issue of attracting more female forum contributors isn't one of it being too "male orientated" but one of it being not overly welcome to new members especially those with little experience. Possibly there are some who peruse the forums but don't feel confident enough to join in.
> 
> ...


Interesting that you felt like that Killer, I have had quite the opposite experience! Although perhaps that is because of what we each have for comparison.

The last forum I joined was a vehicle related forum, and in my first post was reprimanded by the moderator because I hadn't posted in the right section (although it could have applied to either) and then again because a post was slightly off (but still related to) the original post. I won't be going back there for sure...

By comparison, here I have had several 'welcome on board' replies and encouraging useful posts etc. 

Your point still stands though, if you have felt that way, then it is entirely possible that others have also....

Cheers, Matt


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## droid (7/2/15)

When I sold cars we'd have a morning meeting every morning and the manager would say " now don't take this personally but yesterday when you let that guy walk, that was some of the dumbest blah blah blah" you get the drift - the "don't take it personally" bit allowed them to abuse you straight after, well, in their minds it did

anyway my mrs researches the hell out of anything, she knew more about the new Jeep Wrangler on the showroom floor than I did (I was the sales guy)

It would nice to have more women here but didn't kate the marshian get half propositioned in her post about a brew buddy, it's not hard to see why maybe quite a few prefer to lurk

What say yee ladies ?


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## WitWonder (7/2/15)

Killer Brew said:


> Perhaps the issue of attracting more female forum contributors isn't one of it being too "male orientated" but one of it being not overly welcome to new members especially those with little experience. Possibly there are some who peruse the forums but don't feel confident enough to join in.
> 
> Now don't get me wrong as there are some great resources on here with stickies, old threads etc however if you look at response rates to those introducing themselves or asking questions in Kits and Extracts it is quite low and seems to be left to a few helpul individuals (eg. Yob, Manticle, BribieG). In fact in one of my first posts asking for help I got smashed by one experienced poster.


The issue is often related to new members who post questions that have been answered a thousand times before ("my airlock isn't bubbling") and who have quite obviously never heard of the search function which, in this internet age, is somehow almost impossible to imagine. You'd get the same reaction on any other forum, it isn't peculiar to this one. Experienced posters either can't be bothered responding while some, perhaps on an off day, will write something that they probably wouldn't normally.


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## Phoney (7/2/15)

manticle said:


> Saying 'I'm not being sexist' prior to making a comment that is exactly a sexist one, doesn't prevent it being so.
> 
> 'I'm not sexist but I reckon blokes are better' is the gist.
> 
> It's a belief or assumption about a large group based on nothing solid.



I agree with you that the comment was sexist, but take a look at this list for example. Mostly guys names. Though perhaps there is a glass ceiling for female chefs as there supposedly is in the top end of the corporate world?


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## dent (7/2/15)

From what I understand, women have learned to be reluctant to expose their existence in general on forums, as they often subsequently receive a great deal of unsolicited attention, dick pics, criticism, etc from a variety of socially retarded men as a result.

Edit: shit, there aren't even any in this thread and it has already started.


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## Bridges (7/2/15)

Does it matter what sex the person on the other end of the keyboard is? What set of genitalia you own doesn't make you a better brewer or cook. We get great input from all sorts of people on all sorts of subjects. I don't mind who is helping me out when I ask a question as long as the answers are helpful, I don't care if you are male female or some where in between.

Or Cocko...


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## Black n Tan (7/2/15)

We need more female brewers and members on this forum. But sexist avatars, comments and pictures aren't helping the cause. I think this forum may be better than many but we have some way to go. Sometimes the members forget that it is an all male forum; not that would be an excuse to post demeaning images or comments. Sometimes I feel it necessary to close my laptops in front of my wife and children because of the images posted. And that's when I realise this just isn't right and wonder how the female members would feel. The mods should police this more tightly, but unfortunately sometimes they are part of it. For instance when having issues posting images on the forum a moderator stepped in to post a scantily clad woman to show me it works. If the moderator aren't leading by example, you can't expect the members to be any better. I know most members won't agree with me but it has been getting up my nose for sometime. I want more for my daughters, so I should speak up more often!


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## Phoney (7/2/15)

Just out of interest how many women are in your clubs? I think ISB only have a couple.


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## droid (7/2/15)

@blackntan re speak up/defend ~ I agree yes you should, especially as they grow. They will look for a partner that is like their Dad. Tough gig on a brew forum tho.


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## wide eyed and legless (7/2/15)

A good example on that list there phoney, proves a point, I believe in calling it as I see it, in the UK one is not allowed to say black ice, or accident black spot, Dick Turpin made his fabled ride from London to York on his horse Black Bess not on a horse called Bess as they now want to call her all because some people have a problem with the word black and associate with racial prejudice,they are the ones with the problem


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## Killer Brew (7/2/15)

WitWonder said:


> The issue is often related to new members who post questions that have been answered a thousand times before ("my airlock isn't bubbling") and who have quite obviously never heard of the search function which, in this internet age, is somehow almost impossible to imagine. You'd get the same reaction on any other forum, it isn't peculiar to this one. Experienced posters either can't be bothered responding while some, perhaps on an off day, will write something that they probably wouldn't normally.


Not saying it doesn't happen but that is a cop out and gross generalisation. I, as do many other newbies,know how to use the search function and I for one read "How To Brew" first up. Do a search on my threads and tell me your thoughts on the level of interaction versus other threads in here. How does what you suggest relate in any way to a lack of welcome when someone puts up a first post to introduce themselves?


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## madpierre06 (7/2/15)

Age old point of discussion, I've been on a number of forums where there are differing levels of moderation. I'm certainly no prude and have done and said some despicable things in my time. But I've grown into a degree of maturity and try to operate under a level of self moderation where if I would feel uncomfortable saying anything or showing pictures in front of my daughter, then don't say or show it. That's not to say I don't say things on occasion which I regret, but it gives me a point of behaviour to operate from and regulate if I stuff up. And if I wouldn't say something to someone's face, then leave the keyboard alone.

If I go about my busness under thewse guidelines, then I'm generally going to have less of a negative impact on someone else than I used to. I believe the whole PC thing has gotten out of hand where public opinon voiced through legislation and social media has people being so damned careful about what they say for fear someone may be offended that they lose track of what their intent was in saying something and to be honest if I say something that I know is not harmful in any way but you still get offended...then problem belongum you. But I will certainly seek to xchoose my words carefully and try leave the keyboard alone if I've been putting into practice the hobby for which this forum is a vehicle.

Fine principles, easier said then done, but certainly a start.


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## elcarter (7/2/15)

Had 3 chicks in the brew store so far.

The missus - didn't buy anything!

A couple that are into brewing together.

And a wife picking up a Christmas present.

The rest.... Sausage fest.

Fully support woman doing their thing but couldn't care less about going out of my way to target promote it to them. Same with anything else politics, CEO's nitting ect.

If you have to change the way you promote something to target a particular sex then do you loose that equality everyone keeps going on about?

If they find something that tickles interest and want in by all means, full support from me.


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## Killer Brew (7/2/15)

elcarter said:


> If you have to change the way you promote something to target a particular sex then do you loose that equality everyone keeps going on about?


Nope, that is called marketing to your target audience and all good businesses do it. On the other hand if you were actively setting about to discourage the opposite sex by offending them....then maybe. Or perhaps that would just be bad business.

So where is your shop? Am finding the range and advice at Brewcraft a bit limited but there is not much else south of the city.


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## brzt6060 (7/2/15)

I like females... Does that count?


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## manticle (7/2/15)

Nothing to do with offending people or being PC. No-one ever died from being offended.
Just strive to be intelligent and evolved human beings which discounts most forms of bigotry.
Worked with many great female chefs (and some shit ones) during my time in the industry. Known some great brewers of both genders (and some shit ones for sure).

As for being worried about your kids seeing stuff - this forum is a forum for adults pursuing a legal adult hobby. Guidelines restrict anything pornographic from being posted but beyond that, it really is up to members. Just be aware of what you post and how it can be perceived. If you understand that (rather than get upset and defensive because someone else has an issue with it) then post intelligently and stand behind what you post.

Kids reading alcohol related forums comes with its own set of issues - I'm certainly not responsible for what anyone else's kids view on the internet


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## Bribie G (7/2/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> A good example on that list there phoney, proves a point, I believe in calling it as I see it, in the UK one is not allowed to say black ice, or accident black spot, Dick Turpin made his fabled ride from London to York on his horse Black Bess not on a horse called Bess as they now want to call her all because some people have a problem with the word black and associate with racial prejudice,they are the ones with the problem


I grew up in the UK in the 1950s and we had no such constraints, for example when Noddy was mugged and sexually assaulted by N******gas. Loved that book. Would be worth a shitload if I'd ever thought of keeping it :unsure:





I can't find the page where he crawled naked to Big Ear's house where he was tucked into bed .........

I want to see that page again so much.

edit: It just occurred to me, the title of that book "Here Comes Noddy Again"
Oh no, no, no, no. .......................................................is nothing sacred.....................


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## TSMill (7/2/15)

My sewing circle has the same issue with a lack of guys, total clam fest.


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## Bribie G (7/2/15)

What's your rate for BIAB bags?


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## Pogierob (7/2/15)

WitWonder said:


> The issue is often related to new members who post questions that have been answered a thousand times before ("my airlock isn't bubbling") and who have quite obviously never heard of the search function which, in this internet age, is somehow almost impossible to imagine. You'd get the same reaction on any other forum, it isn't peculiar to this one. Experienced posters either can't be bothered responding while some, perhaps on an off day, will write something that they probably wouldn't normally.


In all honesty, I signed up to ahb a few years ago, researched what I needed and then buggered off for a couple of years. 
When I came back, I had questions and it was easier to start a new thread and get an immediate answer than use the search function.

This thread is a great example. 
"Where are.the female brewers"...
Scroll
Scroll
Scroll
Scroll.....





Scroll...

No female brewer's yet.

Scroll...


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## wereprawn (7/2/15)

A large group of of men and alcohol. Hmmm....... can't think of why there aren't many women on here.


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## themonkeysback (7/2/15)

Bribie G said:


> I grew up in the UK in the 1950s and we had no such constraints, for example when Noddy was mugged and sexually assaulted by N******gas. Loved that book. Would be worth a shitload if I'd ever thought of keeping it :unsure:
> 
> noddy naked.gif
> 
> ...


I guess when one of the members who posts constantly on the site is quite happy to relive the days of rampant racism and homophobia as the 'good old days' it is inclined to put off anyone joining, let alone those who know they are likely to be in the minority.


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## elcarter (7/2/15)

Killer Brew said:


> Nope, that is called marketing to your target audience and all good businesses do it. On the other hand if you were actively setting about to discourage the opposite sex by offending them....then maybe. Or perhaps that would just be bad business.
> 
> So where is your shop? Am finding the range and advice at Brewcraft a bit limited but there is not much else south of the city.


You won't get any better advice from me sir .

(Don't take this the wrong way*) but if you want to find my shop.... use the internet search function think it's called Google . Dam these new people to the internet.

*Massive pun intended. If offended, go to a site sponsor and buy something from them instead in protest. 


Edit - what forum did all the naked pictures and homophobic racist go?


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## Cummy (7/2/15)

As a very recent member I can say I have only positive things the say about the assistance I have received on this forum. I have just cracked my second brew and its far better than I thought I could ever do (and its only up from here)

Did I ask some questions that have probably been answered 100 times before - yes. Did I search through the forums before I posted - yes. When you are just beginning I think some forget how much information there is to process. Did I read 100 different ways to do the same thing. Absolutely, and this adds to the confusion when beginning. 

All the advice I have received has been both useful and friendly. However I have read a few posts with responses that were quite rude and uncalled for IMO. 

As for why there might not be many female brewers. I don't know many females that drink beer as a drink of first choice or drink a lot of beer. The majority of men I know drink beer and a reasonable amount. Makes sense to me.


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## manticle (7/2/15)

Matplat said:


> Not sure I agree with you there Manticle, you can generalise, based on observations you have made along the path of life, while also accepting that your generalisation is just that, and that it is entirely possible for exceptions to your rule to exist.
> It would be sexist to say that it is impossible for any good female cooks to exist due to there gender.
> Anyway... Not sure I agree with the original comment in the first place!


Making an assumption, based on scant evidence is the main factor that defines any form of prejudice. The personal experience is limited, yet a very large group is assessed because of it.

Where's the experience of the large group?
I'm reminded of the episode in fawlty towers where, during a conversation about women, the Major exclaims 'I knew one once!'.

Just so we're all on the same page, consider this analogy. A person with no real experience or knowledge of beer and its diversity drinks one glass of microbrewed beer that he or she doesn't like. Maybe it's off, oxidised, dirty lines, past best before or just not to taste.
Conversation that ensues? 'Craft beer? Tried that - disgusting. Tasted like chewing on a tailpipe mixed with gum leaves and chalk. Wouldn't waste my time again'.

As for a top achievers list being male dominated - colour me surprised. That is support for arguments that talented women not only have a tougher time getting to the top but are less likely to be recognised when they get there. 

Black bess, black spot etc - obviously stupid* and just fuel for the fire burned by people needing an excuse to be bigoted nobs. Not everyone who wants to see other humans treated with respect is as pointlessly shallow as that.

*also questionable - what do you mean by not allowed? Jailable offence or just someone else on the bus will frown when you say it?


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## Bribie G (7/2/15)

themonkeysback said:


> I guess when one of the members who posts constantly on the site is quite happy to relive the days of rampant racism and homophobia as the 'good old days' it is inclined to put off anyone joining, let alone those who know they are likely to be in the minority.


Some of my best friends are golliwogs.


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## Eagleburger (7/2/15)

Been my experience that females are too intelligent to pursue something as frivolous as a hobby. The majority of the ones I know are driven to extend their career, families and wealth.


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## malt and barley blues (8/2/15)

A blackboard is now known as a whiteboard in the UK, Pot Black was taken off the TV because Whispering Ted Lowe wouldn't say,'He's going to pot the darker ball in the lower right hand pocket',


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## manticle (8/2/15)

Sorry but a quick bit of research shows that blackboards (the word and the item) are still very much in use in the uk and elsewhere and that silly rumours like that are the domain of tabloid news like daily mail and msn.


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## manticle (8/2/15)

Did you know the muslims have banned christmas?


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## elcarter (8/2/15)

manticle said:


> Did you know the muslims have banned christmas?


Check out Dubai at Christmas.

More into it than I and the Americans.


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## manticle (8/2/15)

Apparently baa baa black sheep is now baa baa green sheep. The world has gone mad with political correctness.
Either that or people are too stupid to critically evaluate what they read.


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## Camo6 (8/2/15)

That kookaburra in the old gum tree has been cleansed of his misguided sexuality. Happy his life must now be.


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## Camo6 (8/2/15)

For that matter, how the hell do you catch a piggy by the toe? Do they even have toes?!

Ok. On second thoughts, that one's fair enough.


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## manticle (8/2/15)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M


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## Nibbo (8/2/15)

Bribie G said:


> I grew up in the UK in the 1950s and we had no such constraints, for example when Noddy was mugged and sexually assaulted by N******gas. Loved that book. Would be worth a shitload if I'd ever thought of keeping it :unsure:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have this book...

Actually correction, it's my wife's from when she was a young'n. 

I read this book to my eldest last year over a period of a few nights. not really knowing what was about to happen to poor old Noddy.


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## Killer Brew (8/2/15)

Do the English still go to Blackpool for summer holidays? What about the white cliffs of Dover?


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## Bridges (8/2/15)

Doesn't removing the word black from all these songs and books sort of give the impression that there is something wrong with it? You tell a kid that they are not allowed to use a swear word as people don't like them and you may hurt their feelings. But doesn't doing the same thing to the word black sort of make it seem like a dirty word or something. I don't know, and luckily have not had to grow up with racism, but isn't the black wool in demand? Don't they want three bags full, the master, the dame and the little boy who lives down the lane. So isn't the song celebrating how awesome black is? 
I think I need to go have a beer... My brain hurts...


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/2/15)

So what are they going to call black sheep....or cows...or crows for that matter..

Is it now a highly pigmented {insert animal here}..? Is a Crow a really dark shade of grey..?


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## nala (8/2/15)

manticle said:


> Making an assumption, based on scant evidence is the main factor that defines any form of prejudice. The personal experience is limited, yet a very large group is assessed because of it.
> Where's the experience of the large group?
> I'm reminded of the episode in fawlty towers where, during a conversation about women, the Major exclaims 'I knew one once!'.
> Just so we're all on the same page, consider this analogy. A person with no real experience or knowledge of beer and its diversity drinks one glass of microbrewed beer that he or she doesn't like. Maybe it's off, oxidised, dirty lines, past best before or just not to taste.
> ...


Can I admit to being prejudiced, in my days as an employer, all things being equal in the applicants, I would choose a female every time.
It was my experience that if a job required diligence and integrity a female would do a great job...not saying that a male would not, but I was never disappointed in in my choice...had some great managers both male and female.


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## dicko (8/2/15)

Well it almost stayed ON topic.... :lol: :lol:


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## manticle (8/2/15)

Bridges said:


> Doesn't removing the word black from all these songs and books sort of give the impression that there is something wrong with it? You tell a kid that they are not allowed to use a swear word as people don't like them and you may hurt their feelings. But doesn't doing the same thing to the word black sort of make it seem like a dirty word or something. I don't know, and luckily have not had to grow up with racism, but isn't the black wool in demand? Don't they want three bags full, the master, the dame and the little boy who lives down the lane. So isn't the song celebrating how awesome black is?
> I think I need to go have a beer... My brain hurts...


No-one is removing the word 'black' from anything. Some irresponsible reporting and chinese whispers make good, self perpetuating urban myths. People can stop freaking out.


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## dicko (8/2/15)

Nah bugger it...I off to buy a black Toyota.

And I am going to insist on a Noddy and Big Ears book to be supplied with it...

And I only want to deal with the female salesperson, but only if she is Muslim. h34r: :lol:

Must be time for a drink... :chug:


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## wide eyed and legless (8/2/15)

You should have started a thread on racial or religious prejudices Dicko it would have got around to women and why don't they brew.


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## manticle (8/2/15)

Interestingly weal, you were the one to bring it up.


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## dicko (8/2/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You should have started a thread on racial or religious prejudices Dicko it would have got around to women and why don't they brew.


I like the way you think Mr legless... :lol:


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## dicko (8/2/15)

Eagleburger said:


> Been my experience that females are too intelligent to pursue something as frivolous as a hobby. The majority of the ones I know are driven to extend their career, families and wealth.


You could be onto something there Eagleburger.....and I will agree the profile of your avatar is far more interesting than the profile of mine.. :lol: h34r:


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## TheWiggman (8/2/15)

Sorry to drag this sorta on topic, but I've always found this concept of "where are they" counter-productive. Sort of works against the purpose of the question (but I understand where you're coming from dicko). 
Working in mining for 8 years now it's heavily male-dominated. Maintenance roles are almost exclusively male, and admin roles almost exclusively female. Equipment operators are about 75% male at least, and underground I don't think I saw a single female vehicle operator either in coal or hard rock. So what's a mining company to do? Promote 'diversity' and specifically recruit females. I've always found though (in my simple mind) that by doing this they're kind of being sexist in the process. After all, if we wanted to treat people equally, by specifically seeking females aren't we inadvertently suggesting that they're not somehow? If we weren't we'd just seek people, and if these people were right for the job then it would matter what race, height, or gender they were. 
Some interests are better suited to blokes, some to chicks. A quick walk around a university campus shows that. Brewing happens to be one of those hobbies that generally gets the attention of blokes, and at that a fair portion of them are certain types of blokes (how many of us are in engineering, IT or maintenance/labour?). Just how it is in my opinion. 
The hard part I suppose is fitting in. I like girls for different reasons than I like blokes, as is tradition, and it's just unavoidable that a girl in a crowd of blokes stands out. It doesn't take long to fit in but I can understand the difficulty of this hurdle that minorities must face. But once jumped, you're as much a brewer as the next person and just as capable at winning an award or opening a brewery. Or throwing your bittering hops in at 10 mins in your drunken stupor.


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## goomboogo (8/2/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Is a Crow a really dark shade of grey..?


Well, there are 50 shades.


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## dicko (8/2/15)

I would assume that there more than likely some women on this forum and I can fully understand why they may want to remain anonymous even if only for the fact that they are female.

My reason for starting this topic was to point out that we as a forum could be missing out on some input from a different perspective. That is why I provided the link to our American counterparts.

When the national comp was held in Adelaide a few years ago I tasted a stout that was brewed by a female and from memory she was with one of the Victorian clubs....It was one of the best stouts I had ever tasted.

When this forum first started there were a few women who participated and in the days when I used to frequent brew days that were generally hosted by brew shops an odd female would be present at those.days as well.

Is it the sheer numbers of males on here that puts the females off??
Or are we really just a bunch of chauvinistic pigs with no respect for the fairer sex??


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## Grott (8/2/15)

To get back on topic and to give my two bobs worth- I don't like baking so I don't bake, nor have a joined a baking forum. I know times are a changing but I don't know many women that drink beer or have it as their first preference thus don't join beer forums. Women that do drink beer have us to make it or buy it (I recall recently in another topic someone's wife told him "why don't you just buy it" or words to that effect.
Cheers


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## manticle (8/2/15)

Bollocks. Some women drink beer, some women make beer. Some men like baking.


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## TimT (8/2/15)

Baking's great. I always kind of assumed that brewers like baking because to me it's just an extension of the cooking process anyway. I'm never surprised when brewers tell me about their elaborate 12-hour smoked ribs, or whatever, for this reason.


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## TimT (8/2/15)

_Did you know the muslims have banned christmas?_

Heh. There was a time when the Christians banned Christmas too. Google 'Cromwell' 'Puritans' and 'Christmas'.

Incidentally it was the Baron who was kinda instrumental for getting me into brewing, though she herself hardly drinks at all. Mostly I do the brewing but she has the ideas for some of the brews and some of them are joint efforts - eg, our meads and ciders.


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## Grott (8/2/15)

manticle said:


> Bollocks. Some women drink beer, some women make beer. Some men like baking.


If you read what I said, I didn't say all women don't drink beer, I didn't say all women don't make beer and I didn't say all men don't like baking. So "bollocks and sorry to have an opinion.



TimT said:


> Baking's great. I always kind of assumed that brewers like baking because to me it's just an extension of the cooking process anyway. I'm never surprised when brewers tell me about their elaborate 12-hour smoked ribs, or whatever, for this reason.


Of course other people like baking, I just said I don't and to clarify when I said baking I meant like cakes, biscuits, bread etc. I love smoking meats etc and put that down to cooking which I love.
Cheers


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## TimT (8/2/15)

I'll have all the cakes you don't want then


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/2/15)

goomboogo said:


> Well, there are 50 shades.


What if the Crow was GLBT.......would it have to be rainbow coloured..?


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## droid (8/2/15)

there's every chance the girls are too busy laughing at us at the moment, they might be enjoying the show


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## elcarter (8/2/15)

manticle said:


> Bollocks. Some women drink beer, some women make beer. Some men like baking.


Cowshit. Most men drink beer, a few women make beer, A lot of men hate baking.


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## Fat Bastard (8/2/15)

elcarter said:


> Cowshit. Most men drink beer, a few women make beer, A lot of men hate baking.


Most men don't drunk beer. Not in the way we here at AHB know it. Most men ( or women for that matter) drink fizzy pisswater and call it beer. We (as in us at AHB) are a tiny subset of beer drinkers, male or female. 

Just a point. Please carry on.


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## TheWiggman (8/2/15)

I know in target shooting there's a female category for the purpose of prizes. If brewing comps did the same would that help numbers?


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## Camo6 (8/2/15)

Naah. Firearms and alcohol are a big no no. ;-)


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## TimT (8/2/15)

TheWiggman said:


> I know in target shooting there's a female category for the purpose of prizes. If brewing comps did the same would that help numbers?


No, it would do the opposite.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/2/15)

I think its the fact that the majority of women dont drink beer (.although this is slowly changing ) is a reason they dont brew. As more women come to appreciate beer then more will want to make beer.


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## elcarter (8/2/15)

Fat Bastard said:


> Most men don't drunk beer. Not in the way we here at AHB know it. Most men ( or women for that matter) drink fizzy pisswater and call it beer. We (as in us at AHB) are a tiny subset of beer drinkers, male or female.
> 
> Just a point. Please carry on.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer

We need to amend wiki it's wrong Nothing about AHB! 

It's a point... from your point of view. Despite what you or for that matter I think beer is. Does not change what they "the majority of the world" think beer is.

The post which was just an inverse was so Manticle could come back with something far more witty and intelligent. It's been a while so it's going to be good.


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## Fat Bastard (8/2/15)

What we (I, and probably you) think beer is is very different from what the majority of the world think beer is. The vast, vast majority of beer sold is slightly unpleasant industrial lager, and that is because that is what the majority of the beer drinking world want. And they want it because that's what they think beer is. 

Look at 90% of restaurant beer lists versus wine lists for proof. Pale lagers aplenty, at the same time that they list all manner of obscure wine varieties. 

While I think that this attitude is changing, I reckon it will be a while before whe see the man on the Clapaham Omnibus ( or indeed his good lady wife) ordering a nice APA over a Corona or VB. Or an alcopop or premix bourbon & coke.


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## spog (8/2/15)

My mother inlaw likes my brews so that's all that's counts ,the mother inlaw happy + my wife happy = me with shit load of brownie points ,which I promptly lose at the drop of a hat,usually due to a few too many.
Way OT but I had to throw it in.


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## Black Devil Dog (8/2/15)

It's just numbers. More men than women drink beer, by a very significant margin I would reckon. So it stands to reason that more men brew beer and as such, they are more likely to post on a home brewing forum.

Also, as you would expect on a forum with a mostly male community, the tone of conversation is often heavily male oriented. That might have an effect. 

I don't really think it matters too much though.


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## manticle (8/2/15)

grott said:


> sorry to have an opinion.


Don't be so sensitive. There's enough of that on the baking forum.

You're entitled to an opinion, I'm entitled to disagree with it.


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## elcarter (8/2/15)

Fat Bastard said:


> What we (I, and probably you) think beer is is very different from what the majority of the world think beer is. The vast, vast majority of beer sold is slightly unpleasant industrial lager, and that is because that is what the majority of the beer drinking world want. And they want it because that's what they think beer is.
> 
> Look at 90% of restaurant beer lists versus wine lists for proof. Pale lagers aplenty, at the same time that they list all manner of obscure wine varieties.
> 
> While I think that this attitude is changing, I reckon it will be a while before whe see the man on the Clapaham Omnibus ( or indeed his good lady wife) ordering a nice APA over a Corona or VB. Or an alcopop or premix bourbon & coke.


Agreed but it's changing down in SA. Quite a lot of restaurants I frequent now have some cracking beers on offer.


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## Grott (9/2/15)

manticle said:


> Don't be so sensitive. There's enough of that on the baking forum.
> 
> You're entitled to an opinion, I'm entitled to disagree with it.


I'm an easy going guy and not so sensitive, its just that you did not read my comments correctly, called it bollocks and I choose to point that out. That's all.
Cheers


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## Spiesy (9/2/15)




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## manticle (9/2/15)

I read your comments. It was the last paragraph I disagreed with (women who drink beer have us to make it for them) and the implications from 'I don't bake, therefore...' I've read them again and still disagree.

The bollocks thing was unnecessary but not intended to be taken seriously. If this were the nineteenth century, I might have written Tish! Pshaw! instead.


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## Grott (9/2/15)

Lets move on, no hard feelings here.


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## Yob (9/2/15)

http://youtu.be/Ek_Vso6Lu1g

sorry...


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## Weizguy (9/2/15)

Matplat said:


> <expurgated>The last forum I joined was a vehicle related forum, and in my first post was reprimanded by the moderator because I hadn't posted in the right section (although it could have applied to either) and then again because a post was slightly off (but still related to) the original post. I won't be going back there for sure...
> 
> By comparison, here I have had several 'welcome on board' replies and encouraging useful posts etc.
> <\expurgated>
> ...


I joined a car forum. Still yet to get a helpful reply. Joined coz the car had a problem and needed help to fix.
Here, I felt a little intimidated, but still plenty of welcome messages and helps by pm.


Phoney said:


> Just out of interest how many women are in your clubs? I think ISB only have a couple.


None in HUB, as far as I know.


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## Weizguy (9/2/15)

manticle said:


> I read your comments. It was the last paragraph I disagreed with (women who drink beer have us to make it for them) and the implications from 'I don't bake, therefore...' I've read them again and still disagree.
> 
> The bollocks thing was unnecessary but not intended to be taken seriously. If this were the nineteenth century, I might have written Tish! Pshaw! instead.


Beshrew me, Edmund.


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## Camo6 (9/2/15)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I joined a car forum. Still yet to get a helpful reply. Joined coz the car had a problem and needed help to fix.
> Here, I felt a little intimidated, but still plenty of welcome messages and helps by pm.
> None in HUB, as far as I know.


You'll probably get more helpful car advice on this forum Les! From my dealings with car forums I've found them to contain more enthusiasts than experts.


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## mckenry (10/2/15)

This is an uneducated guess, based purely on MY experience. We have one female member in our brewclub, but she prefers the 'spiritual side of homebrewing'. My guess is that AHB membership probably reflects society when it comes to proportions of male:female brewers. Nothing sinister, just life preferences. The same thing happens in my wifes jewellery class. No men attend, even though we all know there are male jewellers out there. Its simply that men are less into jewellery than women.


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## hawkgirl (13/2/15)

well, i'm female (last time i checked, anyway) and i'm here..... that may or may not be a good thing though  So here's my take on what's been said so far....

As I am not a huge beer drinker I have started out with cider kits - and yes, I did look through past topics and have not had to ask any newbie questions (yet)...
When I get more confident in my brewing i'm sure I will need to ask advice then - in the meantime I am already inspired to try the orange mead & the galangal ginger beer. At this rate I will need to buy another fermenter. 

Brewing has a whiff of "secret manly man cave activity" to it that most women might find offputting; thats just my guess though. When I said I was going to try homebrewing, my male friends went "awesome!", while my female friends went "ohhkayy....", looked at me sideways & changed the subject.

But i'm not your average girl. I'm a car nut, I grow orchids, I fish, I hunt, I like guns, I keep 15 snakes, I like my scotch neat and currently hold a state & (pending) national archery record at 50 meters..... and i'm a new & enthusiastic homebrewer.


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## dicko (14/2/15)

Welcome to the forum hawk-girl. You certainly have a variety of interests.

It is pleasing to have a female on here and we will welcome your contributions.

If you have any questions on brewing then ask away, there are many on here that will help if they can.

Cheers


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## dicko (14/2/15)

I have removed your post Eagleburger...In its context I consider it to be in poor taste.


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## Lemon (1/3/15)

So, to cut through the ongoing discussion , I hope.
What's the point of this discussion?
Do we want (more) women on/in this forum? I believe that the answer is yes, the can be only so much underlying physcology that is less obvious than this.
So, then what do we have to provide to attract more female brewing enthusiasts? what is it that they want that we don't currently provide?

I'm guessing, that they want what we want from a forum, with less of the bullshit and built in sexism that we exude, without trying.
That is, we have to try not to be such d*ckheads, much like real life really.

My two cents, take it or leave it

Lemon


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