# Windsor Yeast (dry)



## sah

What are your experiences with dry Windsor yeast?

What flavour profile does it deliver at different temperatures?

Is it better to ferment at 17C or 21C?

Thanks in advance,
Scott


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## mje1980

SAH said:


> What are your experiences with dry Windsor yeast?
> 
> What flavour profile does it deliver at different temperatures?
> 
> Is it better to ferment at 17C or 21C?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Scott




Loads of esters. I didnt really like it, just too estery, almost sweet. But i only used it once. A lot of people like it. I prefer the nottiingham, but i like my bitters a bit on the dry side. I have heard nottingham can be used for alts, and maybe lagers. 

Let us know scott


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## geoffi

I agree with Mark. I found it was OK, and produced a drinkable bitter, but a little too estery, too 'strong tasting'. I fermented about 18, I think. The other thing I found was it didn't clear well. Nottingham is now my dry ale yeast of choice, although I think the English liquid yeasts still rule the roost in this particular brewing barnyard.


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## Cortez The Killer

I've got 2 beers with windsor on tap at the moment Scott

If you wanna swing past and sample

Initially fermented at 17 - then left to finish at close to 20

One is a blonde ale and the other a sweet stout

I got the blonde down to 1.011 from 1.051 (it had 500g cane sugar in it though)

It gave up at 1.018 from 1.053 for the stout

Gelatine is a must with it - it just won't floc by itself 

I've used it in the past for an english mild which was tasty 

Though I was a bit iffy on it in an ESB I made

Overall it's an acceptable yeast - I'm probably gonna give Nottingham a go soon to compare

Give me a buzz if you are gonna swing round

Cheers


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## geoffi

One thing about Nottingham: if you're brewing a low-gravity ale, I'd mash high, as it does attenuate very well.


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## devo

I found that the Windsor produces a pretty good flavour but it's attenuation can be quite low. I was only able to get it to ferment down to a FG of 1.020


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## Stuster

Timely thread for me. I have a best bitter sitting in a cube waiting for some yeast today. I'm going to try a few dry yeasts this year. I was planning on using Windsor, but now I'm not so sure. I've also got S-04 which I haven't used since my early brewing days. Should I save the Windsor for a dark mild? :unsure:


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## bconnery

Stuster said:


> Timely thread for me. I have a best bitter sitting in a cube waiting for some yeast today. I'm going to try a few dry yeasts this year. I was planning on using Windsor, but now I'm not so sure. I've also got S-04 which I haven't used since my early brewing days. Should I save the Windsor for a dark mild? :unsure:



I would. I love the flavour and profile of this yeast.
It is my yeast of choice for bitters except for the odd occasion when I use liquids. I used s04 again recently and I do really like the beer but next time I will be trying it with Windsor again.


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## Ross

Windsor is my fav dried yeast for an English bitter; it has a lovely fruity finish. I use it regularly & the resultant beers are always popular up here.
It's poor attenuation works great in a low alc beer, giving you some body to balance the higher carbonation levels we tend to give our bitters here in Aus.


cheers Ross


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## Zizzle

Ross does a very flavoursome low alc beer with this yeast. I'm sure he will tell the details.

I have used Windsor once and liked the result.


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## Stuster

Right you are then, Ben and Ross. Windsor it is.


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## tangent

I'm just about to have another go at using Windsor. Would you use it in an easy drinking Pale Ale (4.5%abv)? Maybe lower the crystal to account for low attenuation?


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## geoffi

tangent said:


> I'm just about to have another go at using Windsor. Would you use it in an easy drinking Pale Ale (4.5%abv)? Maybe lower the crystal to account for low attenuation?




Might be one of the keys to getting a good result. Not much need for a 'body builder' with this one.


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## sah

Wow, some excellent replies here. Thank you.

I do want a low attenuator for this wort I have cubed, however it has 10% crystal with a 0.82 BU:GU and 1.042 OG. I hope it won't be too unbalanced. I'm not adverse to esters as long as they're not acteylaldehyde like.

Cortez, thank's for the offer I would have contacted you to arrange a Sunday afternoon tasting (got my latest Hefe ready, also Tony's Old) however I'm looking after bub. I'll be in touch.

bconnery & Ross, what temperature(s) do you ferment with this yeast? Ross, interesting comment about using higher carbonation to balance the sweetness, I'll experiment.

Thanks brewers.

regards,
Scott


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## troydo

i did an ESB with windsor, and i love the resultant beer... i fermented at 18 degrees and i think i got it down to 1.015ish..


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## PostModern

If you want esters and attenuation, pitch 1xWindsor with 1xNottingham or US-05.
I recently brewed a bitter with that mix of yeast and it was a decent beer. Estery but not sticky.


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## Ross

SAH said:


> bconnery & Ross, what temperature(s) do you ferment with this yeast? Ross, interesting comment about using higher carbonation to balance the sweetness, I'll experiment.
> 
> 
> regards,
> Scott



I ferment it at 19 to 20c.
as PoMo pointed out, if you want the fruitiness of Windsor but better attenuation ,add a satchet of Notts or US-05...I add these 24 hours after the windsor.

cheers Ross


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## tcraig20

Ross said:


> Windsor is my fav dried yeast for an English bitter; it has a lovely fruity finish. I use it regularly & the resultant beers are always popular up here.
> It's poor attenuation works great in a low alc beer, giving you some body to balance the higher carbonation levels we tend to give our bitters here in Aus.
> 
> 
> cheers Ross



I got some a little while back with the intention of making a cider from it. Last cider I made was with S04, and its a little too alcoholic - more like sparkling apple wine than cider. 

Havent tested it out yet, but hopefully soon.


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## winkle

I've used it successfully in a Irish Red, Stout and Warrens Mild (got very good reviews for the punters and keg was emptied in half an hour - 40 C may have had something to do with that  )


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## mje1980

winkle said:


> I've used it successfully in a Irish Red, Stout and Warrens Mild (got very good reviews for the punters and keg was emptied in half an hour - 40 C may have had something to do with that  )




Some very positive responses. I may have to give it another go. Maybe in a roasty dark ale, or a pale with a small amount of crystal, and lots a hops.


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## Stuster

Well, I did use Windsor. I pitched two sachets, 23g dry in all. Probably overkill but the yeast was out of date so I thought what the heck. That was Sunday morning. Fermented at 18-20C. Just took a sample and it's done (more or less). Down to 1013 from 1044 in less than 48 hours. The sample tastes pretty green (duh) but should clear up in the next week or so while it's dry hopping with some Styrian Goldings.


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## Steve

Ross said:


> it has a lovely fruity finish.



Ive only used Windsor once last year when I made a Bramling Cross ale. It turned out tooooo fruity for my liking. It really turned me off it.

Cheers
Steve


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## sah

As I started this thread I thought I should report my first experience with Windsor.

Actual OG was 1.040
Actual FG was 1.010
AA 74%

Pitched at 19C fermented at 18-20C.

Minimal esters, in fact I don't detect any, however I haven't done this recipe with other yeasts.

Picture here 


Style: Standard/Ordinary Bitter

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 46.00 L 
Boil Size: 40.34 L
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 9.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.97 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 63.54 % 
1.60 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain 20.46 % 
0.78 kg Crystal (Joe White) (73.6 SRM) Grain 10.00 % 
0.39 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain 5.00 % 
0.08 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (15.2 SRM) Grain 1.00 % 
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.50 %] (60 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [10.20 %] (60 min) Hops 19.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.50 %] (30 min) Hops 6.5 IBU 
40.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 tsp KoppaFloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
2.00 tbsp 5.2 (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
10.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7.82 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 25.01 L of water at 73.0 C 66.0 C 

Ps. The Pils malt is there because I ran out of MO


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## Adzmax

I've got Ross's NZ Golding Best Bitter on at the moments, Pitched on Monday night @ 1.038 and down to 1.018 at the moment but there seems to be a lack of activity, I can't see any krousen or air lock activity. Seems a bit strange, temps did drop to 16-17 and I've now got the heat pad out. It's been @ 19-20 for about 24 hours now but still nothing, any ideas/comments? Cheers


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## Adzmax

devo said:


> I found that the Windsor produces a pretty good flavour but it's attenuation can be quite low. I was only able to get it to ferment down to a FG of 1.020



What was your OG?


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## warrenlw63

Adzmax said:


> I've got Ross's NZ Golding Best Bitter on at the moments, Pitched on Monday night @ 1.038 and down to 1.018 at the moment



For Windsor I'd say she's close to done. Finishes very sweet. Check your gravity in 2 days. If it's static, rack, keg or bottle.

Warren -


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## devo

Adzmax said:


> What was your OG?



It was quite some time ago but I'm pretty sure it was 1.050


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## KoNG

Steve said:


> Ive only used Windsor once last year when I made a Bramling Cross ale. It turned out tooooo fruity for my liking. It really turned me off it.
> 
> Cheers
> Steve



Steve, i use windsor quite often for my english bitters and i agree it does have some fruity undertones and residual sweetness. But it was also Bram X that was a major turn off for me at one point in terms of fruitiness, so the combination of both could quite easily be overpowering.

having used it so often and gotten used to its attenuation levels, i'm now really happy with my first gold bitters. The main trick is sorting out your BU:GU ratio for a brew you plan to use windsor with.
i'm now using about 10 points higher if i plan to use windsor, which at the moment is around 0.90 - 0.95 bugu.



Adzmax said:


> I've got Ross's NZ Golding Best Bitter on at the moments, Pitched on Monday night @ 1.038 and down to 1.018 at the moment but there seems to be a lack of activity, I can't see any krousen or air lock activity. Seems a bit strange, temps did drop to 16-17 and I've now got the heat pad out. It's been @ 19-20 for about 24 hours now but still nothing, any ideas/comments? Cheers



Adz, hows it looking now...?
if you pitched monday night... at best you have only had 2.5 days of primary fermentation. Windsor isnt super fast by any means. Just try and get it started again.
for an OG of 38 and as long as you arent 'packed' with crystals i would still be expecting an FG of 13-14.
having said that... for an OG of 50-52.. and FG of 1018 is quite normal.
As mentioned above, you have to adjust your BU:GU ratio and/or crystal additions to allow for the high FG i find.

KoNG


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## T.D.

Hey KoNG, I find Windsor to be quite a fast yeast. Well, initially anyway. Seems to ferment all guns blazing for the first 2 days then slows right down. As we've both found though, it does take a while to "condition" and clear. 

And yeah 1.018 does seem a bit high for a 1.038 OG (notwithstanding high mash temps or a big lump of crystal in the grist). I agree, 13-14 is more like what I'd expect.


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## warrenlw63

I just checked that recipe on the Craftbrewer website. Has around 7% crystal malt and Ross lists the finishing gravity at 1.016 with a 64 degree mash temperature. Maybe the thing is close to done ??  

My one and only stab with Windsor was with a Dark Mild that had around 10% crystal malt (you blokes tried it). To me it finished cloyingly sweet. Was probably my initial turnoff regarding Windsor. Also left a kinda muddy taste that took a lot of ageing out.

Warren -


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## KoNG

hmmm, its no nottingham. 
well put it this way, i wouldnt expect it to be at terminal gravity just 72 hours after pitching the dry yeast.
And if the fermentation got a little cold during that time, it may just need some help.
It definately needs time to drop clear too.
2-3 days at 2*C for me in primary is enough once fermentation is complete


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## KoNG

warrenlw63 said:


> My one and only stab with Windsor was with a Dark Mild that had around 10% crystal malt (you blokes tried it). To me it finished cloyingly sweet. Was probably my initial turnoff regarding Windsor. Also left a kinda muddy taste that took a lot of ageing out.
> 
> Warren -



:lol: as mentioned before, its definately a yeast you have to adjust you BUGU ratio... which is all good

you get to pack more hops in... early and late...!!!!!


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## T.D.

KoNG said:


> hmmm, its no nottingham.
> well put it this way, i wouldnt expect it to be at terminal gravity just 72 hours after pitching the dry yeast.
> And if the fermentation got a little cold during that time, it may just need some help.
> It definately needs time to drop clear too.
> 2-3 days at 2*C for me in primary is enough once fermentation is complete



Very true. Maybe it just "seems" quick to me because for some reason I expect a low attenuator like Windsor to ferment really slow, and when it bolts out of the blocks I'm always surprised! 

Probably won't get to terminal gravity in 2-3 days but I wouldn't be surprised if it was close. Particularly with such a low OG.

Its a really interesting yeast I reckon - the black sheep of the dry yeast stable. It bolts out of the blocks, yet has low attenuation and takes a bit longer to finish properly. And it doesn't floculate out very quick after fermentation, but it always ends up crystal clear after being on tap for a week or so. Its never persistent haze, but it never starts clear either. Strange. And the yeast trub always looks and smells like a chocolate milkshake! :lol:


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## warrenlw63

T.D. said:


> It bolts out of the blocks, yet has low attenuation and takes a bit longer to finish properly.



Sounds like the way SWMBO describes me. <_< 

Warren -


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## Adzmax

T.D. said:


> Hey KoNG, I find Windsor to be quite a fast yeast. Well, initially anyway. Seems to ferment all guns blazing for the first 2 days then slows right down. As we've both found though, it does take a while to "condition" and clear.
> 
> And yeah 1.018 does seem a bit high for a 1.038 OG (notwithstanding high mash temps or a big lump of crystal in the grist). I agree, 13-14 is more like what I'd expect.



Spot on, this is what I'm thinking too. Seeing it's my first shot with it I really didn't know what to expect. I'll monitor the gravity until say Sunday night and report back 

Thanks for the input guys :beer:


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## T.D.

warrenlw63 said:


> Sounds like the way SWMBO describes me. <_<
> 
> Warren -



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## KoNG

warrenlw63 said:


> I just checked that recipe on the Craftbrewer website. Has around 7% crystal malt and Ross lists the finishing gravity at 1.016 with a 64 degree mash temperature. Maybe the thing is close to done ??
> Warren -



whooaa must be gospel then...!
i stand completely corrected.
back to my.... "kennel of no idea"


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## warrenlw63

KoNG said:


> whooaa must be gospel then...!
> i stand completely corrected.
> back to my.... "kennel of no idea"



Would you like "Napoleon" or "Squealer" on your kennel? h34r: 

Warren -


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## T.D.

KoNG said:


> whooaa must be gospel then...!
> i stand completely corrected.
> back to my.... "kennel of no idea"



:lol: Silly KoNG!

By the way, seems VERY unlikely to me that a 1.038 OG beer mashed at 64deg would finish at 1.016, even with Windsor.


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## T.D.

warrenlw63 said:


> Would you like "Napoleon" or "Squealer" on your kennel? h34r:
> 
> Warren -



I think "Napoleon" is already taken isn't it Warren???


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## Adzmax

100 posts w00t! :icon_chickcheers:


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## warrenlw63

T.D. said:


> I think "Napoleon" is already taken isn't it Warren???



:super: :lol: 

Warren -


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## therook

I'm thinking of using this yeast for the first time in a Mild shortly but can't find the attenuation figure for it to put into Beersmith, can anybody help me

Rook


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## warrenlw63

Promash has it listed between 68-74% attenuation. I'd be more inclined to believe the lower end. She's a sticky yeast.  

Warren -


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## THE DRUNK ARAB

therook said:


> I'm thinking of using this yeast for the first time in a Mild shortly but can't find the attenuation figure for it to put into Beersmith, can anybody help me
> 
> Rook


Rook,

try a nice English liquid yeast instead. Your taste buds will thank you :icon_cheers: !

C&B
TDA


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## Hutch

therook said:


> I'm thinking of using this yeast for the first time in a Mild shortly but can't find the attenuation figure for it to put into Beersmith, can anybody help me
> 
> Rook


Great minds Rook  
I'm about to use it in a London ESB for the July case swap. The first cube I fermented out with WY1318 London III, and it was overly attenuated. I'm hoping the Windsor leaves a little more behind with the second cube. 

Does this yeast need rousing to finish the job?


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## Adzmax

Forgot to report back, ended up at 1.018. Far too high for my liking, this is a VERY low % beer now, around 2.6% 

Boooooo!


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## SJW

What % of crystal r u guys using in the english bitters for them to be finishing so high? or is it just the yeast? I want to do an English Bitter at about 3.5% but it just does not feal right only using 3 kg's of malt in a beer.

Steve


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## T.D.

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Rook,
> 
> try a nice English liquid yeast instead. Your taste buds will thank you :icon_cheers: !
> 
> C&B
> TDA



Yeah I agree. I did a couple of bitters with WLP Burton Ale and the results were great - so much more going on! IMO, Windsor is only really worthwhile if you are intentionally trying to make a beer that is 2.5% alc - ie so you get a good amount of residual sweetness to offset the lack of body. Other than that I'd rather a slightly more attentuative yeast - preferably a liquid one. :beerbang: 

Hey Adzmax, keep it for parties where you've gotta drive! :icon_cheers:


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## warrenlw63

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Rook,
> 
> try a nice English liquid yeast instead. Your taste buds will thank you :icon_cheers: !
> 
> C&B
> TDA



:lol: Didn't want to say that TDA. Guess it's in the open now. h34r: 

Warren -


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## therook

thanks for the quick responses fellas, TDA and TD I would like to try a liquid but have never used them before and i have the Windsor to use up.

SJW, Jamil uses up to 17.5% Crystal and also 7.5% pale chocolate in his recipe using Windsor

Rook


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## warrenlw63

therook said:


> SJW, Jamil uses up to 17.5% Crystal



Hmmm... Mmm.... Weeeellll... My guess is Jamil's dental visits are free too.  

Nice to have a bit of a toffee/sweet crystal finish on lower gravity beers. OTOH that's taking it to a new level. Personally I wouldn't go any more than 10% max.

Warren -


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## therook

warrenlw63 said:


> Hmmm... Mmm.... Weeeellll... My guess is Jamil's dental visits are free too.
> 
> Nice to have a bit of a toffee/sweet crystal finish on lower gravity beers. OTOH that's taking it to a new level. Personally I wouldn't go any more than 10% max.
> 
> Warren -




I was waiting....what took you so long Wazza.....

Rook


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## warrenlw63

therook said:


> I was waiting....what took you so long Wazza.....
> 
> Rook



Can't piss and type at the same time mate.  

Warren -


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## Ross

Mash low at 63c & a standard bitter will drop to approx 1012. Mash at 67c & you'll finish at 1018.
Personally I really like the yeast in an English Bitter (my fav dry yeast) & got 2nd place in the State Championships last year using it.

There are some great liquids though, especially 1318  

cheers Ross

edit: ...& just pitched a sachet of Windsor into a Mild, brewed this morning.


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## Adzmax

This might give you a better idea. I'm working at 65% efficiency. 

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/brewing-pages.asp?NewsID=9

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.80 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Bairds) (5.9 EBC) Grain 66.19 %
0.50 kg Maize, Flaked (Bairds) (3.9 EBC) Grain 11.82 %
0.40 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 9.46 %
0.20 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.73 %
0.10 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (256.1 EBC) Grain 2.36 %
0.10 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (Weyermann) (90.6 EBC) Grain 2.36 %
0.10 kg Carared (Weyermann) (47.3 EBC) Grain 2.36 %
0.03 kg Chocolate Malt (Bairds) (886.5 EBC) Grain 0.71 %
48.00 gm Goldings [3.70 %] (60 min) Hops 16.0 IBU
40.00 gm Goldings [3.70 %] (20 min) Hops 8.1 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings [3.70 %] (15 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings [3.70 %] (10 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings [3.70 %] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
1 Pkgs CraftBrewer Windsor (Dried Yeast) Yeast-Ale 
Mashed at max 64c. Single infusion batch sparge

Over all I'm happy with the beer, it's pretty bloody nice just a tad on the low side so you're right T.D, this one is a driving beer. Will be VERY handy 

Ross - thanks for that info, nice and handy!


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## AndrewQLD

warrenlw63 said:


> Hmmm... Mmm.... Weeeellll... My guess is Jamil's dental visits are free too.
> 
> Nice to have a bit of a toffee/sweet crystal finish on lower gravity beers. OTOH that's taking it to a new level. Personally I wouldn't go any more than 10% max.
> 
> Warren -




I agree Warren, up to 17.5% of crystal in a mild is ludicrous, the toffee characteristics of the crystal malt would be overpowering. I like to mash high 67 or 68 to keep the body and mouthfeel up and to stop the beer from drying out and becoming too thin and bland.

Cheers
Andrew


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## warrenlw63

Andrew I've got David Sutula's Classic Styles "Mild Ale" book and he also quotes such crazy amounts too. Some recipes as high as 20% !!!

Always consider that book a fantastic read until I hit the recipe section. Could be deemed very misleading to the point of maybe turning some brewers off such a great beer style.  

This cold Melbourne weather has me thinking of English Ale season already... Giddyap! :icon_cheers:

The hop shortage will make Dark Mild a convenient style.

Warren -


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## Brewer_010

Just adding to this thread on the windsor yeast, I have just used it in a robust porter and found that it fermented like mad for four days at 20 degrees, and resulted in pulling the OG of 1054 down to 1006. It's conditioning in the primary now for another week, but initial tastings are good, although the finish is a little bit drier than I was planning. 

I read this thread to decide on the yeast to use and decided on windsor so that the FG would be a little higher (say around 1012), but the yeast has fermented strongly....and thrown the abv up to 6.5%. 

Recipe is here:

0.30 kg Wheat DME (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 8.0 % 
3.00 kg Extra Pale LME (4.0 EBC) Extract 80.0 % 
0.18 kg Pale Chocolate Malt (650.0 EBC) Grain 4.8 % 
0.15 kg Caraaroma (400.0 EBC) Grain 4.0 % 
0.12 kg Carafa III (1300.0 EBC) Grain 3.2 % 
15.00 gm Pacific Jade [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 29.1 IBU 
15.00 gm NZ Fuggles [5.00%] (40 min) Hops 8.5 IBU 
25.00 gm NZ Fuggles [5.00%] (10 min) Hops 3.7 IBU 
30.00 gm NZ Fuggles [5.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops - 
0.50 tsp Koppa Floc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Windsor Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale


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## Adzmax

Interesting


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## law-of-ohms

Old tread to dig up, but:-

I'm doing a side by side using Windsor and US-05.

Windsor bolted out the gate, pitched dry yeast on top of the wort.

US-05 was second gen, made up with a starter, its much slower.

Vienna malt, and lots of hops, so should be a good side by side.


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## Yob

English and American yeast on the same wort? Interesting, what hops?


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## zeggie

As with many others i can never get Windsor below 1.020...

Prefer Nottingham personally.


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## mje1980

This thread, and the other thread has me kind of keen to revisit both of these yeast strains. For some reason tempted to do 2 x mild ales, same grains etc, but one mashed at 70 for 30 mins and fermented with notto, the other mashed at 62 for 90 and fermented with Windsor.


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## fletcher

zeggie said:


> As with many others i can never get Windsor below 1.020...
> 
> Prefer Nottingham personally.


have you ever considered 'finishing it off' with us-05 or any other clean-fermenting yeasts? if you like the esters, i was told you can simply add more clean-fermenting yeast if the original yeast dies out/stalls/stops short of where you want it


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## technobabble66

Bit OT, so apologies:

What's the deal with Windsor - is it a case of not being *able* to get to a low FG, or is it more that it just takes a long long time?

(Context: interested in using Windsor for a Ginger Beer I want to finish as high as possible)


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## law-of-ohms

Interestingly, I just noticed the windsor batch is 14L and the US-05 batch is 16L, I might just end up pitching 1L of active fermenting US-05 batch into the windsor to dry it out some, I'll have to go and measure both SG's... 

Yob,

15g Citra,
10g Amarilo
10g Cascade
10g Summer
10g Ahtanum

(all from you  )

The above @ each addition.

50min, 10min, 5min

165g of hops, 32L batch, lost 2L to trub

1.050 OG

Any recommendations on dry hop?


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## GeoffN

Great thread thanks for reviving this.

I'm planning a stout, kit & bits fermented with Windsor. Good to hear people's experiences. I'm looking for lower attenuation and esters to make it interesting.

Basic idea
Coopers stout tin
1.5 kg LME
0.5 kg flaked oats steeped at 60°C 30 min boil afterwards to ensure no infection
0.2 kg cocoa powder
Dry hop with fuggles

I have the yeast and all the ingredients and need to use them up.

Now I need to get my brew fridge wired up with the controller and then I'll put this one on so that it will be ready for winter.

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## zeggie

fletcher said:


> have you ever considered 'finishing it off' with us-05 or any other clean-fermenting yeasts? if you like the esters, i was told you can simply add more clean-fermenting yeast if the original yeast dies out/stalls/stops short of where you want it


Yeah I've read a few people do this. Personally dont mind dry so Notto for me and then I know the job will be done.


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## law-of-ohms

just took a sg reading.

Windsor = 1.014
US-05 = 1.010

time to dry hop


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## Yob

Dry hop? I'd go something like

10g Citra,
10g Amarilo
10g Cascade

Or some such... mmmm...


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## fletcher

law-of-ohms said:


> just took a sg reading.
> 
> Windsor = 1.014
> US-05 = 1.010
> 
> time to dry hop



windsor finished that low? i'm impressed!


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## law-of-ohms

err, did...

Summer 40g
Ahtanum 40g
Pilot 20g

in each!

- Screw your 10g additions....
lol


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## law-of-ohms

Us05 @ 1.010
Windsor @ 1.013


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## law-of-ohms

2 weeks in the bottle, I've been drinking the US-05 all week!, is great, the Windsor needs more time.

The Windsor is sweeter, and has suppressed the hops more. US-05 wins for me.


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## fletcher

law-of-ohms said:


> 2 weeks in the bottle, I've been drinking the US-05 all week!, is great, the Windsor needs more time.
> 
> The Windsor is sweeter, and has suppressed the hops more. US-05 wins for me.



perhaps see how it is though in another 1-2 weeks. the windsor might come good. I do love us05 though but these two yeasts are fairly different yeasts aren't they?


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## fletcher

just tested a kind of colonial aussie bitter ale using this yeast:

pale - 90
med xtal - 5
wheat - 5
mashed 65C
POR @ 60 for 30ibu
windsor @ 17C
1.044 - 1.014 (couldn't get any lower but don't mind too much)
now bottle conditioning

tasted it the other night after about 2 weeks and it still tastes VERY young. looking through this thread it seems that windsor takes longer to clear up. is this what others have experienced? i only had it in the fermenter for about 10 days before bottling, including 3 days cold crash as it was done.


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## Byran

I used both Windsor and Notto in English bitters one after the other and wasn't really thrilled with either. I think both strains produce pretty wild esters which are good for a strong malty beer, not so good for more subtle or hoppy beers though, in my opinion. So4 has quite a heavy ester also, I would rather go for a liquid yeast if using English strains. Like 1469 or WLP007. I fermented both yeasts quite cold, 16deg C and they still produced quite harsh ester profiles for my palate.


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## fletcher

Byran said:


> I used both Windsor and Notto in English bitters one after the other and wasn't really thrilled with either. I think both strains produce pretty wild esters which are good for a strong malty beer, not so good for more subtle or hoppy beers though, in my opinion. So4 has quite a heavy ester also, I would rather go for a liquid yeast if using English strains. Like 1469 or WLP007. I fermented both yeasts quite cold, 16deg C and they still produced quite harsh ester profiles for my palate.


cheers mate. hopefully it gets better after a week or 2. at the moment it was pretty harsh. i'll give you a few to try any way haha


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## law-of-ohms

Ok, been drinking the windor and us05 side by side tonight. It did need the extra time and now I prefer it over the us. Nice and malty. Bit sweeter. Very nice


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## fletcher

law-of-ohms said:


> Ok, been drinking the windor and us05 side by side tonight. It did need the extra time and now I prefer it over the us. Nice and malty. Bit sweeter. Very nice


good to know. mine's been in the bottle a little over three weeks so it should hopefully be cleaning up and ready soon. fingers crossed. i think i got to it too quick in the fermentor after it was done, and the yeast didn't have much of a chance to clean up early on.


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## fletcher

holy CRAP.

just took a taste of my recipe above and the windsor has come good and cleaned up. absolutely amazing taste. the pride of ringwood has a lovely bitterness but what compliments it perfectly is an almost estery nuttiness from the windsor yeast. i'm a big fan. it's not overpowering for the 30ish IBU and sits just under it perfectly.


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## sp0rk

Question
I put an ESB of sorts down to ferment on friday with a rehydrated pack of Nottingham, however it's failed to fire
I'm a little hesitant to put another pack of Notto in as my LHBS repackages 500g packs and there's the possiblity it's a bad batch
Any problems with pitching a pack of Windsor, if the Notto is dead, should it not contribute any conflicting flavours?
SG was 1.054 if that makes any difference

*edit*
Nevermind, went another Notto as they had no Windsor


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## fletcher

sp0rk said:


> Question
> I put an ESB of sorts down to ferment on friday with a rehydrated pack of Nottingham, however it's failed to fire
> I'm a little hesitant to put another pack of Notto in as my LHBS repackages 500g packs and there's the possiblity it's a bad batch
> Any problems with pitching a pack of Windsor, if the Notto is dead, should it not contribute any conflicting flavours?
> SG was 1.054 if that makes any difference
> 
> *edit*
> Nevermind, went another Notto as they had no Windsor


can't say I've ever done the same thing mate but I used my first lot of Windsor the other day and it was super in my english/aussie hybrid bitter. 

flavour wise I picked up a slight nuttiness and it didn't floculate as notto does.


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## sp0rk

We'll see the other Notto goes, I noticed a little bit of scum floating on top which I'm really hoping is just trub or something, not an infection due to 2-3 days of sitting in a fermenter with dead yeast


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## dicko

fletcher said:


> holy CRAP.
> 
> just took a taste of my recipe above and the windsor has come good and cleaned up. absolutely amazing taste. the pride of ringwood has a lovely bitterness but what compliments it perfectly is an almost estery nuttiness from the windsor yeast. i'm a big fan. it's not overpowering for the 30ish IBU and sits just under it perfectly.


Hi fletcher,

So how long has it been bottle conditioning from when it was bottled to the post above??
I am thinking of doing an ESB or similar and condition / carbonate it in the keg and was wondering about conditioning time.


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## fletcher

dicko said:


> Hi fletcher,
> 
> So how long has it been bottle conditioning from when it was bottled to the post above??
> I am thinking of doing an ESB or similar and condition / carbonate it in the keg and was wondering about conditioning time.


hey mate, it was bottled on the 23/01 and that post was 16/02. 3ish, 4ish weeks perhaps?

i daresay when it's in the keg though, it would condition much faster with a larger volume of yeast (unless i'm mistaken). this is purely my guess. but i tell you what, i called my beer the 'pretty ordinary' bitter, because never having used that yeast, i didn't expect much. it has been one of my best bitters i've made. absolutely loved it. i will try the 1469 because i've read it's got a similar nuttier and i prefer liquid yeast but the windsor worked a treat and i'm glad i used it.

EDIT: taste-wise it was beautiful then and still matured nicely up until last night when i cracked my last bottle


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## dicko

I used Windsor in an Irish stout a few years ago because that is all that I had and first up it was ordinary but after some time in the bottle it was great...it smoothed out and was a great stout.


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## fletcher

how long did it take to smooth out for your stout? i never really considered it for a stout but am curious


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## dicko

fletcher said:


> how long did it take to smooth out for your stout? i never really considered it for a stout but am curious


For my tastes Windsor has got a sweet note to it which was hard to detect in the Irish Stout.

I had different feelings about using it in an Irish stout but it came out OK. I can only go from memory but it aged for around 2 months before I tried my first bottle.

I would like to try Windsor in a sweet stout. I recon that would be good as well


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## GeoffN

I'm going to be trying a sweetish stout with Windsor. Kit and bits to try and get some more unfermentables in there to get some sweetness when combined with the Windsor. Have steeped grain and some flanked oats. Letting it cool overnight and I'll add lme and coopers stout kit tomorrow. May add some chocolate essence too. Been needing to use the kit for a while now.


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