# Flow Hives - Honey



## Alex.Tas (16/9/15)

Has anyone ordered one of these?
http://www.honeyflow.com/

They aren't particularly new (early 2015 release i think), but still something i though would be worth of discussion.

A couple of fellas form the Hunter region developed this system to remove honey from hives without the reed to remove the plates, cut off the caps and spin out the honey. The idea looks awesome!

Its a real shame that even though the product was developed in Australia, is made in Australia, posted from Australia but is sold in US currency, and therefore subject to the fluctuations in the AUD. I can understand that they have a predominantly US/international market and therefore it may make sense to sell using USD. 

Doesn't help console me to the fact that a full setup is slightly over $1k due to exchange rates.

So far as i can tell, even if I ordered one now, it wouldn't be available until late summer.


----------



## tugger (16/9/15)

Mead factory.


----------



## Lincoln2 (16/9/15)

It was actually developed from up this way and a lot of my mates are keeping a close eye on this. I'm dead keen for one as are some of the lads.

It's quite an interesting story if you look at their history and the kickstarter campaign. Seeking $75K and raised millions in just days, Primarily from US apiarists which may explain the Yank focus?


----------



## wobbly (16/9/15)

Not knocking the development but these are comments from my neighbor who has a Phd in biology and works in the WA Agricultural Department on Bee research

Wobbly

_[SIZE=11pt]I haven’t seen one up close, but I have looked at the videos like everyone else….they raised a lot of money by crowd funding for it….and so much interest worldwide, that they will become multimillionaires fairly quickly !!_[/SIZE]

_[SIZE=11pt]Apart from the revolutionary frame splitting idea, it will have a few problems if people think they do not need to be a trained beekeeper to have one._[/SIZE]

_[SIZE=11pt]Say if the bees get a bee disease, which can be common in suburbia they will need to replace the bees and sterilize the hive components_[/SIZE]

_[SIZE=11pt]If it needs a new queen – they will need to replace the queen bee_[/SIZE]

_[SIZE=11pt]If the honey candies in the comb then the frame split idea won’t work, examples are late winter/spring when raddish and canola flowers – these nectars when turned into honey and if the bee population reduces (eg by swarming) and the frames fall to 14 C ambient, then the honey will candy quite quickly and not flow from a frame. Good strong populous hives will maintain hive temp at about 35 C and honey can stay liquid_[/SIZE]

_[SIZE=11pt]For a normal beehive you can buy all the components in WA and make your own hive for around $240, and fill it with bees from a nucleus hive (with good queen) you can buy for around $145..or wait for a swarm and go and collect it for free !_[/SIZE]

_[SIZE=11pt]I reckon I will see quite a few on the verge in the coming years ! (council throw outs)_[/SIZE]


----------



## shaunous (17/9/15)

Yeh I watched it from the start. They were making hundreds of thousands over night. I've emailed them a couple of times and they keep telling me it'll stay US$ for a long while yet. They are very expensive and I can't justify it. 
I really want bee's on my farm but will probably meet up with the local bee group (every town has one, or one close) and get their idea's. A lot of people have been having crop failures, and it's come down to not enough bees pollinating, so people are having to self pollinate by tipping one flower into another. A lot of effort!

The guys who created it are from North Coast NSW.


----------



## shaunous (17/9/15)

How closely I was following them  
Screen shots several days apart.


----------



## Mardoo (17/9/15)

Yeah, these look damn interesting, but I've wondered about similar things as raised by wobbly's mate. I kept bees years ago and want to get back into it. Knowing the amount of work it can be, this looks great, but incredibly pricey. Hopefully their follow-through at distributing information on resolution of issues will be good. I'm going to wait and see a bit, but I'm still watching, that's for sure.


----------



## jburke (17/9/15)

This is a fantastic idea(in the right hands) unfortunately going by some of the questions I've seen posted on their Facebook page, it won't be in the right hands. Yes i know everyone will learn how to care for bees but with bees you really should try to learn before. Just hopefully they can all figure it out before they get disheartened. I really hope this works though as it is a lot nicer on the bees than normal robbing but then it's plastic so is it better for the whole hive which is the main question any beekeeper should be asking, not when and how easy can i extract. 
It is swarm season Mardoo, perfect time to get back into it.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/9/15)

My parents kept bees. we had extractor van he whole bit

Used to chase native trees around flowering

Shame not many are into native bees. Although they are a bit harder to work with, but dont sting


----------



## Dave70 (17/9/15)

Aussies. Keepin it real in the testimonials.. 

"F%#$! That's the Holy Grail of beekeeping." Murray Arkadieff
_Farmgate Honey – commercial apiary, Australia_


----------



## Crusty (17/9/15)

What a great idea.
Who wouldn't want one of these.
I think these guys are going to make a fortune out of it.


----------



## shaunous (17/9/15)

They've already made over 11mil, whats a fortune to you Crusty? :lol:


----------



## Alex.Tas (17/9/15)

Yeah I think it is really innovative. Good one these people for thinking outside the square.

Wobbly, the points your neighbor makes are probably valid, but form the very little i know about bee keeping, wouldn't the majority of what you said be true for a traditional hive too?

I might spend this summer building a brood box and roof, as well as the frame, and then look to filling it with the drain-able frames next year.


----------



## shaunous (17/9/15)

I'm thinking along the same lines u are Alex.Tas


----------



## Lincoln2 (17/9/15)

As per Wobbly and others, I agree this is not a magic bullet that will miraculously turn you into a gun bee-keeper. You'll still need the fundamentals. 

My nearest bee club is in Nimbin so I might wander over and have a chat. You should see how they smoke their hives for extraction.


----------



## pajs (17/9/15)

Lots of interesting flow hive discussion in the article and comments here: http://www.milkwood.net/2015/02/26/going-flow-flow-hive-actually-good-idea/

Quite keen to add some bees at my place, but no way I know enough about them yet. Warre hives seem like smart design though.


----------



## wobbly (15/9/16)

Did any one pull the trigger on one of these and if so what has your experience bee to date

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wynnum1 (15/9/16)

ttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154562544048410&set=gm.1782209288727178&type=3&theater


----------



## wide eyed and legless (15/9/16)

wobbly said:


> Did any one pull the trigger on one of these and if so what has your experience bee to date
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Was going to wobbly but my wife now has got it in her head that it could be dangerous with the kids, subscribe to their emails and am presently trying to convince my wife to let me put the hive on the roof.


----------



## Grainer (15/9/16)

Advice.. wait 2-3 years and collect them from hard rubbish.. reported issues with comb sizes so far and the bees don't really like them cause of it.


----------



## Mardoo (15/9/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Was going to wobbly but my wife now has got it in her head that it could be dangerous with the kids, subscribe to their emails and am presently trying to convince my wife to let me put the hive on the roof.


I was a registered beekeeper from age 9-15. It's not dangerous for kids, unless yours happen to be particularly stupid. Which I doubt.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (15/9/16)

Mardoo you wouldn't believe the discussions we have had about this, if I wanted to keep wasps and harvest the grubs for fishing I could understand, wasps I have had plenty of stings from, bees none.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (15/9/16)

Grainer said:


> Advice.. wait 2-3 years and collect them from hard rubbish.. reported issues with comb sizes so far and the bees don't really like them cause of it.


Depends where that information comes from, I have read quite a bit about it and that traditional apiarists are against the flow hive where others are for them, I suppose its a bit like our brewing web sites the differences of opinions, shall I rack or not, shall I re hydrate yeast or not.


----------



## mash head (15/9/16)

As someone who has worked with and managed a few hundred hives, I think the problems with these are people percieve that they will be able to walk up to their hive and just turn a tap on with out actually managing the be population.
The old school way of removing full boxes and replacing them with empty ones means you have to open up the hive which gives you a good idea on the colonies health. The full boxes can then be placed in a warming room to ensure the viscosity of the honey is adequate for extraction. Most of Wobblys points were spot on.


----------



## Grainer (15/9/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Depends where that information comes from, I have read quite a bit about it and that traditional apiarists are against the flow hive where others are for them, I suppose its a bit like our brewing web sites the differences of opinions, shall I rack or not, shall I re hydrate yeast or not.


Reports from someone that I know that owns both styles of hives is the flow hive performs much less and is is suspected it s due to the smaller octagon sizes of the flow hives.. this looks to be a flaw in the design. There have been numerous reports of this. The guy at Collingwood children farm reports the same things and he is very experienced.


----------



## mash head (15/9/16)

Grainer said:


> Reports from someone that I know that owns both styles of hives is the flow hive performs much less and is is suspected it s due to the smaller octagon sizes of the flow hives.. this looks to be a flaw in the design. There have been numerous reports of this. The guy at Collingwood children farm reports the same things and he is very experienced.


It would depend wether you twist the right frame, twist the wrong one and you may wipe out a bunch of young brood destroying future productivity. Also this system doesn't take into account the bees also store pollen in some combs.
Obviously I don't think its a great invention, but people who don't know much are silly enough to invest.


----------



## Mardoo (16/9/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Mardoo you wouldn't believe the discussions we have had about this, if I wanted to keep wasps and harvest the grubs for fishing I could understand, wasps I have had plenty of stings from, bees none.


Humans and bees have lived together for a very, very long time. If it was that dangerous, we wouldn't be spending any time on fluffy cat memes.


----------



## Crusty (16/9/16)

I've been toying with the idea of having a single hive at home for quite some time & initially, the Flow Hive looked the part for my situation.
A guy just around the corner from me has a 10 frame hive in his back yard & he looked at getting one but he mentioned the design flaw with the size of the Flow Hive.
In some you tube videos, there's a fair percentage of bees that prefer the standard hive to one of these & some common complaints are the rather slow speed that the bees start to make the honey. They seem to spend quite some time waxing up any gaps in the hive & this also includes the plastic comb. The cost is another factor too & if I get a hive, I think I'm just going to get a 10 frame starter kit from The Urban Beehive 
$100 - $150 for a nucleus, some protective gear & away you go. The wife likes the idea too so the transition should be quite easy with no squabbling.
You can buy a shit load of honey for the cost of setting up a hive up but it's not about that for me. I want to grow as much of my own produce as possible too & get back to basics a bit more & bees are definitely on the radar.


----------



## mash head (16/9/16)

Bees don't like plastic, its clear to me when you look through a brood box and the queen is laying only on the natural foundation and avoiding the plastic frames. Plastic foundation and frames have been around a fair while now it easier to assemble and they don't fly apart in the extractor but if the bees don't like to use them what is gained.


----------



## razzmeister (16/9/16)

I ended up buying one of these a few months ago, purely out of curiosity really. (Also they ran a bit of a special and they were a little bit cheaper)
I have heard the negatives and I probably agree with most of them, but I will see what happens anyway.
I have quite a few existing hives and have been keeping bees for a few years now so I'd like to think that while I'm by no means any sort of expert,
I'm not a complete noob when it comes to bees!! Obviously knowing the cost of 'normal' gear I was initially very put off by the cost of these hives, but couldn't resist trying one out.

Will be setting the super up on top of an existing hive that will be starting to store honey pretty much straight away so I'll see how it goes!
Should be able to see pretty quickly whether the bees are going to work the frames or not.

I did have a bit of a discussion with another beekeeper a while back about this and we came up with a bit of another theory why the bees may not like it...
It's possible that in the Byron bay area where these were invented the plastic stays warm enough that the bees can still communicate through it with vibrations etc.
But that down here in Melbourne and in other locations with different weather, the bees cannot do this so will therefore avoid the plastic frames. Just a thought.

Anyway I'll post some observations for you guys as the season starts to get going and let you know if I manage to get any honey out of it.


----------



## Crusty (16/9/16)

razzmeister said:


> I ended up buying one of these a few months ago, purely out of curiosity really. (Also they ran a bit of a special and they were a little bit cheaper)
> I have heard the negatives and I probably agree with most of them, but I will see what happens anyway.
> I have quite a few existing hives and have been keeping bees for a few years now so I'd like to think that while I'm by no means any sort of expert,
> I'm not a complete noob when it comes to bees!! Obviously knowing the cost of 'normal' gear I was initially very put off by the cost of these hives, but couldn't resist trying one out.
> ...


Awesome mate.
Let us know how it goes, positives & negatives. I love the idea & for the budding bee keeper, they look a little easier to manage with honey extraction.
I dropped in to see Adam up the road again this morning & his bees are going really well. It's a perfect time of the year & the bees are in full activity. At the moment, he only has the two box set up with another box ready to add. I asked him how much you would get from just one box & he stated that at least 20kg & up to 30kg with a 10 frame box. He only harvests once a year but said you could push a couple of extractions if it's a bumper season. All good with the council too, we're allowed to have one hive. I think I'm going to order a starter kit shortly.


----------



## Crusty (16/9/16)

I've heard that the honey from the flow hive is richer in flavour as in more honeycomb like compared to honey from the standard hive.
Apparently, when you spin the frames, it subjects the honey to some oxidation where as the flow hive honey isn't subject to that in any way.
Not too sure if it's just jibber but I remember hearing that somewhere.


----------



## wynnum1 (17/9/16)

Crusty said:


> I've heard that the honey from the flow hive is richer in flavour as in more honeycomb like compared to honey from the standard hive.
> Apparently, when you spin the frames, it subjects the honey to some oxidation where as the flow hive honey isn't subject to that in any way.
> Not too sure if it's just jibber but I remember hearing that somewhere.


Lots of the honey sold in Australia is poor quality probably not honey they feed the bees .


----------



## wide eyed and legless (17/9/16)

Another plus with the bees besides the honey, when working in a garden with the drone of the bees really helps connect with nature, and its relaxing.


----------



## Crusty (17/9/16)

wynnum1 said:


> Lots of the honey sold in Australia is poor quality probably not honey they feed the bees .


Yep! We all hate Capilano.



wide eyed and legless said:


> Another plus with the bees besides the honey, when working in a garden with the drone of the bees really helps connect with nature, and its relaxing.


Just what I need for the garden.


----------



## shaunous (18/9/16)

I'm keen for a bee hive in my garden. I've been putting down failing crops of vege's with plenty of flowers and buggerall fruit to hardly any bee activity. 
Let me know which way you go crusty. I nearly pulled the trigger on a flow hive so many times but kept talking myself out of it for the cost. 
If your mate is only harvesting once a year that's alright, I figured you'd have to be more active then that. 
We have hives on our property up the mountain, but they come and go and we never see them, they just leave 1kg buckets of honey on the mailbox as payment


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/9/16)

Why not get your own normal hive.

They are not that expensive.

Getting the honey out without an extractor is the difficult bit


----------



## mash head (18/9/16)

Razmiester, we coat plastic frames with melted beeswax which helps them accept them, not sure if this would be practical for the flow hive but its something the bees will do naturally anyway.


----------



## Crusty (18/9/16)

shaunous said:


> I'm keen for a bee hive in my garden. I've been putting down failing crops of vege's with plenty of flowers and buggerall fruit to hardly any bee activity.
> Let me know which way you go crusty. I nearly pulled the trigger on a flow hive so many times but kept talking myself out of it for the cost.
> If your mate is only harvesting once a year that's alright, I figured you'd have to be more active then that.
> We have hives on our property up the mountain, but they come and go and we never see them, they just leave 1kg buckets of honey on the mailbox as payment


He said you can harvest more than once a year but he doesn't do it.
He attends the hive bi-weekly or sometimes weekly just to check on them.
His hive is a full size 10 frame with the brood box on the bottom, the frames are 80% filled so he's added another brood box on top. He said once that's 80% done, he's going to add a queen excluder then his 10 frame box that he'll harvest from. He said doing it this way with a double brood box gives the bees more than enough honey for Winter & he still gets 20kg+ from that top box. His bees are really cool & so docile. I scored a 1kg jar of honey from him yesterday & it's superb. You can really taste the floral flavour & it shits all over anything you get from the shops. We're living with my step father at the moment which is a bit hard to put a hive in his yard mainly due to orientation of the yard, but we'll see. I'm going to go with the commercial size hive, 10 frame when I do get round to getting one.


----------



## shaunous (18/9/16)

That's the plan. I know fuckall about bee's and looking after them. Main reason I haven't done anything yet.



Ducatiboy stu said:


> Why not get your own normal hive.
> 
> They are not that expensive.
> 
> Getting the honey out without an extractor is the difficult bit


----------



## Crusty (19/9/16)

For those of you that have the traditional bee boxes, do you bother having a double brood box with a honey super on top for harvest or just a single brood box, then queen excluder then honey super? The guy up the road has a double brood box this year but says he normally just runs with two boxes. He mentioned having the two brood boxes as a great way to build up the bee numbers but you'll get to harvest less. I think he's only doing it that way this year as he's got about 50kg+ of honey in jars in his garage.


----------



## wobbly (19/9/16)

There are two hives on my property in a southern suburban of Perth managed by someone else the deal being that I get a couple of kilos of honey from each twice a year. 

They each have a bottom brood box then a queen excluder and then two honey super boxes on top so a total of three boxes in each set up. 

Wobbly


----------



## Crusty (19/9/16)

wobbly said:


> There are two hives on my property in a southern suburban of Perth managed by someone else the deal being that I get a couple of kilos of honey from each twice a year.
> 
> They each have a bottom brood box then a queen excluder and then two honey super boxes on top so a total of three boxes in each set up.
> 
> Wobbly


What size boxes Wobbly, do you know? How many frames?
Nice deal by the way.


----------



## wynnum1 (19/9/16)

Flash flood inundates hundreds of hives


https://www.facebook.com/ntbees1/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE


----------



## shaunous (19/9/16)

Crusty said:


> What size boxes Wobbly, do you know? How many frames?
> Nice deal by the way.


Same deal we get up the range. Not sure on quantities but it just turns up in buckets on the mailbox every now and then.


----------



## razzmeister (19/9/16)

From my (somewhat limited) experience I would say you might be best having a double brood box once the hive is established (like after a year or two)
Otherwise they are going to run out of space quicker and be more likely to swarm. Personal preference but that's what I normally do. Otherwise you'll have to be pretty vigilant in your swarm prevention.
The other option is to not use an excluder and they then just have free run of the whole hive. I also have some hives without excluders and the queens mostly lay in
bottom box or two anyway.

Crusty - also on your previous point about getting commercial size 10 Frame hives, just be aware if you get the 'standard' wooden hive, 10 frame boxes full of honey are VERY heavy!!
I normally use 8 Framers as they are a bit easier on the back!!
There are now expanded polystyrene hives available which I'm keen to try, but haven't yet. These should be lighter so the 10 frame versions of these might be a bit nicer to use!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/9/16)

Lot of people dont realise just how heavy a hive full of honey is


----------

