# Lhbs: "dont Go On The Internet"



## losp (9/2/12)

Hi All,

I went into a LHBS the other day. I wont mention the name of the store, but its on the western side of Melbourne, near the docs, under the big bridge... <_< 

I was just picking up some supplies (yeast and star-san) and some other bloke picked up a newby brew kit that one of his family members had bought him for Christmas. As i was waiting the guy who was picking up the kit was told by one of the staff members (who seemed to me, quite rude before i saw this) to "stay off the internet". He said "why?" and the staff member said "because they are all nincompoosp and everything they say is wrong/bs".... One of the other guys in there jokingly said 'i am picking up stuff for a recipe that i got off the net' but he also was treated with disdain.

No big deal i guess, i just thought it was a good thing for the Vic AHBers to know. As 'The people of the Internet', particularly this forum have helped me out enormously for my home-brew queries/needs. 
I would have expected this from BrewCraft several years ago, but my recent experienced with them have been fantastic and the staff there are extremely helpful to all-grainers and they now have an almost-semi-respectable range of grain, and dont push the kits as much anymore.

I will now be buying my specialty stuff from Ross at Craftbrewer, bulk grains from Dave in greensborough and the smaller/urgent stuff at Brewcraft.


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## razz (9/2/12)

Did he have red hair?


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## losp (9/2/12)

razz said:


> Did he have red hair?



I can't remember the hair, but he was the more ...portly gentleman.


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## WarmBeer (9/2/12)

Ignore him.

He's just bitter because his multi-thousand dollar 3-tier system lost to a Brew-In-A-Bag beer at the 2010 ANHC.


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## razz (9/2/12)

:lol:


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## Jace89 (9/2/12)

That 'guy' is the reason I stopped going there. Always made me feel like a pain in the arse....I only ever ordered grain and asked for advice on the equipment they were selling. 
Other then that the people who work there were generally nice.


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## wakkatoo (9/2/12)

Would that be the same west-of-melbs-under-a-big-bridge-HBS that has a fairly large and obvious sponsorship logo/link to an *internet* store on this *website*?  

Obviously I'm a nincompoop(sp?) and the above statement is wrong....


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Everyone else in the store is a champ, including the owner.

I think we should all email said owner because I know a lot of people who've been put off going into the store due to one experience with said assistant.

I've had nothing but good experiences with all the other staff and think they are worthy of support because they carry a great range, are very helpful generally, offer decent advice and in my experience have fixed any and all errors promptly and without argument (mailorders etc).


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## doon (9/2/12)

There is one other guy, newer middle aged guy that falls into same category as previously mentioned staff member. These two without fail make me feel like a f Tard after leaving the store cause I asked for advice. It's just good that the other three including the owner have been freaking awesome giving so much advice and help


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Really? Damn.

Bloke who's name rhymes with 'this' is my favourite. Always interested in what you are brewing, always helpful, and nerdy in that cool way that some brewers can be.


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## doon (9/2/12)

Nah not bloke who rhymes with this he is a freaking champ! Even took emailed excel spread sheets for heaps of things. Its the bloke who doesn't have a photo on the website kind of reminds me of elvis


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## jayahhdee (9/2/12)

I have had a similar experience with the same staff member as described above, doesn't seem at all interested in anything and always looks grumpy, Fortunately everyone else I have dealt with have been champs at the store.


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## big78sam (9/2/12)

I too have had a similar experience with said gentleman, more than once. Overall great service there though.

Now waiting to see what mods do...


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## Siborg (9/2/12)

It's a pity really. They are clearly the biggest store Vic has to offer yet one staff member continues to put people off. I've personally never had a run in with said guy, but I have heard many tales.


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## fraser_john (9/2/12)

I don't like going there after I walked in and asked for 1kg of Chocolate malt and then getting chewed out for not ordering online with a clearly indicated pickup date/time.

"They" obviously don't want my business.

The owner needs to be more aware of how his customers are being treated.

I have not bought ANY malt from them since and only use them when desperate and unable to get something from one of the other online stores in time for a brew.

I'd hazard a guess that they have lost a couple of hundred dollars a year of my business. Not huge in the scheme of things, but, obviously by this thread, it is an ongoing problem.


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## Jace89 (9/2/12)

Yah that guy would throw a hissy fit at people if they didnt order the day before, I made the mistake of doing that once! I've seen him do it to other people as well, I understand the rule but not the enforcement..
They lost my business as well never thought about complaining though, maybe someone should let owner/manager know about this thread.


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## Pennywise (9/2/12)

Another one here who (when I get served by him) gets the grumpy, wanker treatment. I go back because all the other staff are awesome. Paul, John, Dan are others I've been served by and are great, there's two other dudes who's awesome but I don't know their names, skinny bloke, usually at the counter, anyway he's the bloke holding a beer in the pic on their website. Got a good sense of humor that one. The other is a tall skinny bloke, bit of a ranga and piercings n shit, he seems pretty cool, only spoken with him once though but was keen to answer my questions.


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## Pennywise (9/2/12)

Jace said:


> Yah that guy would throw a hissy fit at people if they didnt order the day before, I made the mistake of doing that once! I've seen him do it to other people as well, I understand the rule but not the enforcement..
> They lost my business as well never thought about complaining though, maybe someone should let owner/manager know about this thread.



Wow, really. I'm surprised no one has slapped him one yet. I mean I've gotten the "rude to much trouble for him" thing before but throwing a hissy fit is just, well, childish. is job is to serve customers, don't like it, get another fuckin' job. Simple really...


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## DU99 (9/2/12)

pennywise one is chris


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## doon (9/2/12)

Yeah young dude with peircings is a champ to sat there chatting to me and helping me out for ages the other day


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## Pennywise (9/2/12)

Ahh that's it, Chris. Top bloke by my accounts


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## jbowers (9/2/12)

Yeah, also not in to that guy... A good attitude towards customer service is essential in retail. The rest of the staff there are tops though!


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Emailed the owner and linked him to this thread.

No point us bitching if he doesn't know about it.


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## Truman42 (9/2/12)

Yeh Chris is the younger bald guy whos in the middle of their website pic. 
Hes awesome, always really helpful.
Hes even bothered to scale a recipe for me when I changed the batch size in the shop.

Happy to have a chat about anything. Top bloke..deserves a pay rise...


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Chris is second from the left, full head of hair.


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## Pennywise (9/2/12)

Dan is the young bald dude


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## staggalee (9/2/12)

this is really suspence full, meeting all these blokes, it`s like a whole new family.

edit...... I`m glad Truman isn`t handling the introductions tho.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Hi I'm Jim. I'm Sel's younger cousin.


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## Siborg (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Emailed the owner and linked him to this thread.
> 
> No point us bitching if he doesn't know about it.


Good call.


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## Truman42 (9/2/12)

Pennywise said:


> Dan is the young bald dude


How awkward... Imagine if I met him at a party.,.
"honey, this is Chris from G&G".......
"Ahhh, no mate I'm Dan"....lol

Ok well Dan is the top bloke who deserves a pay rise. Chris probably does too though. Lol


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## staggalee (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Hi I'm Jim. I'm Sel's younger cousin.



Howdo Jim.
You be kin to them Hatfields then, I reckon.
Now me, I`m a McCoy. Got no time for them what`s across the mountain.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Them's cross the mountain is strange folks.

One a 'em shagged a pony once. Gotta good mind to string him upsy down from an apple tree and poke small vegetables insy his a-hole.

That'll teach um to be a sick pervetee ol' freak!


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## staggalee (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Them's cross the mountain is strange folks.
> 
> One a 'em shagged a pony once. Gotta good mind to string him upsy down from an apple tree and poke small vegetables insy his a-hole.
> 
> That'll teach um to be a sick pervetee ol' freak!



They be strange rite nuff. Why, I
member last fall Cleetus Hatfield got a mind to shag a knothole in a big oak tree.
Done got his pecker caught in there and was 3 days before his Pappy an Jethro chainsawed him out!
That boy never cosied up to no knothole agin.  
No sir


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Them chainsaw's liable to do some pecker damage ennyays and dat's truth of it. I not be surprised he able ta cosy up to nobody, nohow, no more.

Hell strange yessir.


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## pk.sax (9/2/12)

wetalldid


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## Mattress (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Hi I'm Jim. I'm Sel's younger cousin.



You got a purdy mouth


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## IainMcLean (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Really? Damn.
> 
> Bloke who's name rhymes with 'this' is my favourite. Always interested in what you are brewing, always helpful, and nerdy in that cool way that some brewers can be.



I second that. He's the guy that got me going in the beginning. A quiet one but worth listening to. Very helpful in the store - as was Dan. Not sure if he still works there part time since getting the new brewing gig.


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## pokolbinguy (9/2/12)

Always a shame when one or two staff can spoil it for the rest of the effort put in by the others.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

I got an email back from the store owner saying he would look into it and give me a call tomorrow morning to discuss.

My experience with said owner is that he genuinely cares about the HB community and their perceptions of the store. A chat on the phone with him can be anything from discussing malt distribution to a half hour chat about the particular type of yeast you have ordered so I'd expect a reasonable response. The email arrived more than 2 hours after the store's daily COB which gives some indication.

Will keep the thread updated but without revealing personal email details unless given permission.


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## pk.sax (9/2/12)

Hooray riggers!


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## Charst (9/2/12)

I can't say at any point in time have I had any real customer service issues in said shop but I have noticed the grumpy tone of certain staff.
The bloke that rhymes which 'this' gets a definite +1 from me though. champagne Bloke


While we are picking I have one thing I really can't understand.

I have no research to back his up but I work 8-5 weekdays and assume Min. 50% of people work a 9-5 Monday to Friday type arrangement also. 
That being said the one opportunity I have to get Home brew supplies without ordering online and post is saturday morning till 1pm. 

its a fking madhouse with the amount of people in the joint. can't get the service/advice you'd hope for because the staff are flat out with the amount of people, but its saturday morning i don't blame them.

but the amount of times I've had to not brew as a couldn't pop down and get something i needed in time would be a couple hundred dollars from me alone. others must be the same.

I would have assumed being such a large portion of your customers are only free to shop/brew on weekends you'd wanna be open to trade.


To make a comparison and hypothetical: 

If the Government told Bunnings they have to close for a 1 day and a Half per week Id be fked if they'd choose half of saturday and all of Sunday.


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## beerdrinkingbob (9/2/12)

In Riggers defence, he has a very dry sense of humour, many a time at a meeting he has taken the mickey out of me about my 'said knowledge'.... "where did you hear that?", I'd say the internet, and he would say: "there's your problem!". 

Riggers is a very skilled BJCP judge as well as being a great source of knowledge. Yes he has been wrong about a few thing in the 'Riggers vs the internet' battle, but on the large part he is always on the money.

You may not get treated like you're at the Hilton, but at least you get treated like one of his friends.

At the risk of getting flamed, people need to lighten up. If you do have an issue, talk to the person involved or their boss, don't take it to the net...

Cheers Robbie


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## bum (9/2/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> don't take it to the net...


Serious business.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

@beerdrinkingbob: He's not there as a stand up comic. Customers don't need to understand or accept his sense of humour - he needs to try and make it funnier (Bernard Black is a funny grumpy prick if he needs lessons) or just stick to dealing with customers and what they want. We're not all in his brewclub but we are in the shop.

I agree about net vs talk to him or his boss which is exactly what I've currently done.

@Charst - I guess, just like you work 8-5, 5 days a week and are glad to get home and have a weekend away from work is the reason they aren't open 7 days a week. Ordering online is what I do mostly and they are usually prompt and always communicative.

Said HBS is a one off, independently owned business and doesn't compare with a massive multinationally owned chain store like Bunnings.


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## bulp (9/2/12)

I have had the same experience with the same person and i've edited my post because i appreciate G+G sponsoring this site and i don't have a problem with any of the other lads . Craftbrewer get my coins.

Oh Absolute Homebrew in Sydney has really good service too.


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## Charst (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> @Charst - I guess, just like you work 8-5, 5 days a week and are glad to get home and have a weekend away from work is the reason they aren't open 7 days a week. Ordering online is what I do mostly and they are usually prompt and always communicative.
> 
> Said HBS is a one off, independently owned business and doesn't compare with a massive multinationally owned chain store like Bunnings.




Agreed but my comparison is based on when the average person has the time to be shopping and brewing/gardening/handymanning etc.

I'm Doing some handy man task on weekend and oh sh*t i need nails or whatever, i pop down to bunnings/mitre 10 etc.
If I need a bit of tubing or ran out of HB caps, i can't pop down to G&G

I get they want to be home on a sunday but its a retail business. biggest retail trade is weekends. 

I didn't mean to say they should be open 7 days a week, just that they could be like a lot of restaurants and make monday or tuesday their closed day/days.

EDIT: and yes i should be more organised I know


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Try emailing the suggestion to the owner. They may all have partners/family who work during the week etc so weekends are precious for another reason.

Restaurants run a **** of a trade for staff - not sure I'd ever want to emulate their business model if I ran a non-restaurant retail business or work for one that did. I know what you mean but the mailorder facility should combat this (and it's not particularly expensive). Can you online order from Bunnings and get delivered? (genuine question - I haven't checked).

The saturday window might be small but it's there. I get almost all of my supplies from said HBS (some from CB if HBS doesn't have it, little bits from Gryphon when they have specials and most hops from ellerslie) and i buy there between once a week and once a fortnight. I don't drive and like you I work 5 days (and ocassional weekends) yet I still manage to get my brewing supplies. If you want something from craftbrewer, you'd be hard pressed to get there when you need something quick on a Sunday.


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## loikar (9/2/12)

This is the second thread iv'e read today where someone has got online to bag a beer related company.
the first thread, the right thing was done in the first place.

this thread was just a whine session about a Grain and Grape staff member. 
This also reflects on the business and the judgement of the owner and is bad for business and as a sponsor of this forum, I think more respect for that should be given.

Manticle did the right thing, but it should have been done by the OP previous to this thread and not aired for all to get on the whinge train.
Sure, if the response is along the lines of "don't care" or "piss off", get online and spread the word, but G&G doesn't deserve the impression this thread if giving to the business as a whole and may possibly influence someone considering purchasing their goods to go somewhere else.

I don't think it benefits any company (apart from brewcraft due to their consistent ignorant attitude and over-priced products) or the brewing community to jump on the internet and bag their service without engaging the business itself first.
Bad customer service is something that should be taken up with the company before jumping on the internet and complaining about it.
Especially when said company supports the medium you're using to complain on.

I understand this is about one individual, but it still reflects on the business. A business that sponsors this forum.

pull ya bloody heads in.

BF


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## bum (9/2/12)

This will undoubtedly upset some (for which I apologise but I think my point does bear thinking about) but let me ask everyone a question:

Who does not see a whole heap of shit advice being offered here daily? 

Sure, enough good stuff to make it worth the effort but, honestly, who can say that this board is 100% perfect for everyone who does not yet have the experience to be able to filter out what they need? 

Sure, this has always been the case but there is a clear trend towards half-arsed advice (don't say "brewing", don't say "brewing") that has never existed here. Yes, the early resistance to BIAB was ugly in many ways at least the alternative they presented was well founded.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

Tomorrow it will all be forgotten, business as usual.
Nev


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## manticle (9/2/12)

@bum: I guess the advice is offered here for free so the expectation is different.

People still complain about being told to do a search ffs (a possibly analogical equivalent) anyway so it's not really that different. Said store person does not offer shit advice as far as I'm aware - just puts a lot of people off by being rude.

@beerfingers: I agree to a large extent about the internet whinge fest thing - it can become stupidly mammoth. One good thing that may come of it is that people get to read about alternative experinces (a large number of posts in this thread are actually praising said HBS* and their experiences there - same as has happened with the recently resurrected beerbelly thread.

I think though that contacting any business you are unhappy with before starting this kind of thread is essential. What businesses do to put wrong things right is what counts in my eyes - not whether or not they get things wrong in the first place. Obviously if I drink a shit beer from millers, I probably won't bother but independent brewpub, local business, HBS etc - give it a whirl. How can customer service improve if you don't politely, but firmly let them know of your issues?

*While HBS and staff member have been named, the OP attempted not to do so and while it's probably pointless, I intend to respect that attempted anonymity.


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## bum (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> I guess the advice is offered here for free so the expectation is different.


A reasonable assertion until we look at the context of the OP. LHBS-attendant advises new brewer that the internet is full of crap. Not the most useful advice but neither is it the worst.



manticle said:


> just puts a lot of people off by being rude.


Well, I never!


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## Bada Bing Brewery (9/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Tomorrow it will all be forgotten, business as usual.
> Nev


I don't forget Nev <_< 
Cheers
BBB


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## yardy (9/2/12)

I think it's weak as piss, if the man genuinely has a bad attitude, ask him politely to **** up and get the order you're paying for, don't slink out with your tail between your legs and whinge and whine on here.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Brewers are mainly nerds mate. Some old crusty tradies and a few ex-chefs followed by an over representation from the nerd community.

They can hardly ask a girl out, let alone take a shop assistant to task for discourtesy.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Brewers are mainly nerds mate. Some old crusty tradies and a few ex-chefs followed by an over representation from the nerd community.
> 
> They can hardly ask a girl out, let alone take a shop assistant to task for discourtesy.



Thanks Sheldon <_<


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Brewers are mainly nerds mate. Some old crusty tradies and a few ex-chefs followed by an over representation from the nerd community.
> 
> They can hardly ask a girl out, let alone take a shop assistant to task for discourtesy.


I hate to generalize but .........
I asked a girl out once but never again !
Nev


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## losp (9/2/12)

Wow. i think this thread is being taken the wrong way. I didn't just decide to jump on the internet and plot to, through a series of nasty posts go about taking down a Local HBS. 

I just thought the users of this fine forum, deserve to know about what the store (i say store not staff member, because it was my and could have been anyone's perception) thinks of the Home Brewing internet scene.

Firstly, I don't know who the owner of the store is, i don't know who the hell the staff member is either. For all i know he could be the owner/manager/register man or janitor. I just heard what i heard and thought 'well that's a funny way to run your business'. Telling someone to stay off the internet seems to me that they were wishing the customer get their advice from old books/magazine subscriptions or intelligent staff-members who's best interest is in the development of the clients brewing skills (yeah right).

I felt in no position to tell said person how to run his business, i also couldn't be arsed stirring the pot. I went out to tell the (customer) guy about this forum and that he could learn plenty of accurate and useful stuff on the net as long as he was a little diligent in checking everything before putting it into use. It was a minor thing, i just thought i should let people of this forum (internet site) what i heard.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

You didn't think that posting a thread about a well known HBS and hinting fairly clearly at which one it might be, would create a shitstorm?

I think it's good that you kept it anonymous and think that should have been respected throughout but you can't really think the reaction is unbelievable unless you've only just recently been introduced to the internet.

If so - welcome to the internet.


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## Cocko (9/2/12)

Wow, thread confusion or lost in translation..


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## Muscovy_333 (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Brewers are mainly nerds mate. Some old crusty tradies and a few ex-chefs followed by an over representation from the nerd community.
> 
> They can hardly ask a girl out, let alone take a shop assistant to task for discourtesy.




Speak for yourself. 
I had to stop calculating the differrential volumes using pi r- squared x depth for my ghetto muscmeister build, vessel within a vessel, wipe my browe with my blue terry towling wife basher singlet, shuffle my Blunny's to one side and put down my exquisitely home made duck confit with home grown orange sauce and a cinnimon swizzle stick to respond to your outragous claim. 
I'll let you know that i always talk to girls... on the internet... you are just generalising so much!


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## losp (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> You didn't think that posting a thread about a well known HBS and hinting fairly clearly at which one it might be, would create a shitstorm?
> 
> I think it's good that you kept it anonymous and think that should have been respected throughout but you can't really think the reaction is unbelievable unless you've only just recently been introduced to the internet.
> 
> If so - welcome to the internet.




Well what would be the point of the post if i took out all descriptive elements regarding the store. I just wanted people to know what i thought they were pushing. if i didn't say where, there would be no point saying it at all.

The original responses were a little different to the latter ones, I found out there were opinions on the store in both good and bad. Just like reviewing a product i guess.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> You didn't think that posting a thread about a well known HBS and hinting fairly clearly at which one it might be, would create a shitstorm?
> 
> I think it's good that you kept it anonymous and think that should have been respected throughout but you can't really think the reaction is unbelievable unless you've only just recently been introduced to the internet.
> 
> If so - welcome to the internet.


I dont see a shit storm just AHB predictable banter. Different day same shit. Suggestion to the OP "don't have an opinion people dont like it". :icon_cheers: 
Nev


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## Muscovy_333 (9/2/12)

Yippie Ki Yay said:


> I second that. He's the guy that got me going in the beginning. A quiet one but worth listening to. Very helpful in the store - as was Dan. Not sure if he still works there part time since getting the new brewing gig.




Is it Dan that ended up brewing with JS?

Top bloke if so.


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## np1962 (9/2/12)

Not sure about trading hours legislation in Vic.
There are rules about which types of stores, floorspace etc... that mean many businesses have been unable to open the hours they wanted in SA for many years.
Hell, Harvey Norman couldn't open there electrical section on Sunday until quite recently here. Don't know how many times Iwalked through the furniture displays and then found I couldn't enter the electrical goods part of the store.
Sunday is actually classed as a Public Holiday, hence penalty rates.
Just a thought.
Nige



Charst said:


> Agreed but my comparison is based on when the average person has the time to be shopping and brewing/gardening/handymanning etc.
> 
> I'm Doing some handy man task on weekend and oh sh*t i need nails or whatever, i pop down to bunnings/mitre 10 etc.
> If I need a bit of tubing or ran out of HB caps, i can't pop down to G&G
> ...


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## manticle (9/2/12)

@ gryphon: I mean internet shitstorm. You know the ones. With lolpoo and ffshit.

Synonymous with predictable banter, really.

What I mean is the reaction, given the nature of the format/media, is not surprising.

I am surprised that someone else is surprised.


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## bigandhairy (9/2/12)

on a slightly different angle. When the OP recieved unfavourable service he could have done what I normally do, not go back and the proprietor might never know. At least in this instance there has been someone who has moved the issue on to the releveant people. This might be an opportunity for the business owner to make changes/review procedures that they might not have done without this sort of intervention. Criticisms quite often arent all bad, it's just often how the reciever views them when it comes to their business. My opinion is don't slay the OP, he possibly thinks he's just putting a point of view out to the brewing mates. I doubt he is out to bring a business to its knees, which I'm also quite sure won't happen.

My 2c only

bah


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I hate to generalize but .........
> I asked a girl out once but never again !
> Nev



Girls don't like vegetarians.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> @ gryphon: I mean internet shitstorm. You know the ones. With lolpoo and ffshit.
> 
> Synonymous with predictable banter, really.
> 
> ...


Yep, I see your point but it a unforgivable thing on this forum to have an opinion. It was going good as usual and as the night gets longer ................
Poor old OP now feels hes the one thats wrong ??
Nev


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Girls don't like vegetarians.


Its true because they dont know how to cook vege food. I ate some fish on Friday :unsure: 
Nev


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## Cocko (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Girls don't like vegetarians.




Girls dont like pale.

Well, Vegetarians are pale.... and weak....

But again, I would hate to generalise any type of life style....

In particular the go to bed early, got up early "Paper Boy'? 

I mean seriously?

People. ****!


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## fcmcg (9/2/12)

It's a pity that a man ( and yes we know who it is ) and a business are getting flamed on here . Riggers has , for the best part of 20 years supported home brewing with judging , entering comps , providing feedback...Sometimes , yes , he is not always seen as approachable . I can't defend him on that one , but he is actually a good man . As for grain and grape , shame on you who seek to punish John Preston and his store because of one employee...John is one of our biggest supporters. , one of the brains behind ANHC , and a man who is so generous to all brewers , brew clubs and people that it is beyond a joke. He supports you in ways some of you don't even know....it's a shame his business is getting penalised....
Ferg
Secretary
Westagte 
And yes , I am a mate of Riggers


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## yardy (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> Girls don't like vegetarians.




Girls don't like a lot of things, the secret is knowing what they do like.


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## manticle (9/2/12)

@GB:

Round and round it goes. I don't think he did wrong but I don't think he should be surprised at where the thread ended up either. I am assuming the poster is he and apologise profusely if it's a she.

I do think people with complaints should get in touch with the business before posting complaint threads but the title was not "insert Business name is fucked - never buy there" as is often the case. The OP was fine but it's not unbelievable that it's run the entire gamut. Anyway, it will be good to get and give feedback from and to the LHBS owner tomorrow. Nothing like discussing stuff with people one on one. You'd appreciate the same for your business I'd presume GB?

At everyone else: Yarbles. Great big bollocky yarbles to you.


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## pk.sax (9/2/12)

Omg. What a crock of shit this thread. It's like people can't deal with a shopkeeper with a bit of a personality!
Seriously. For the record, the few times I was in that shop I never had much trouble with said guy. If I don't like his advice I ask someone else. It's as simple as that.
The number of times I've heard the 'wrong thing' that goes totally against my common sense and research shoul mean I shouldn't buy from mostly anywhere. Heck, stop brewing. Ive even pulled out my phone and googled stuff standing in a brewshop (generally any shop) when I don't quite agree with what's being said.
Honestly, you people are just soft. Nerds that can't tell a retailer to stick it!? made me laugh. If you stand there not even 10% sure of yourself, of course the shop will tell you what they want to sell. Next time do your homework before you go.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (9/2/12)

Cocko said:


> Girls dont like pale.
> 
> Well, Vegetarians are pale.... and weak....
> 
> ...



I thought you were going a bit soft there for a while cocko ... that's better
cheers
BBB


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## Cocko (9/2/12)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> I thought you were going a bit soft there for a while cocko ... that's better
> cheers
> BBB



Ha!

shut up cv/|\T!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> @GB:
> 
> Round and round it goes. I don't think he did wrong but I don't think he should be surprised at where the thread ended up either. I am assuming the poster is he and apologise profusely if it's a she.
> 
> ...


Mate nothing against you but there are a few of us that have seen lots of things in our lives and feel a need to have an opinion, as far as business goes I get what I dish out, my customers know that as well as I do. They have an opinion I may have a differing one. either way at the end of the day there is no bad feelings, right ? Its business.
Nev


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## alcoadam (9/2/12)

Glad I don't work for a home brew shop, tough enough getting performance appraisals from the boss let alone a community of online strangers.... h34r:


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## losp (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> @GB:
> 
> Round and round it goes. I don't think he did wrong but I don't think he should be surprised at where the thread ended up either. I am assuming the poster is he and apologise profusely if it's a she.
> 
> ...




Yeah, i don't really give a shit anymore. the bloke didn't say it to me, so why should i care right? 
I think ill just go back to lurking like i've done for the past year.

Fwiw i didn't get surprised by any of the responses (why the hell would i?), I thought this thread was dead and end of story after you contacted the owner.


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## christmasbender (9/2/12)

omg i'm so with you guys

let's go down and picket the shop on saturday morning...... i believe 'he's' doing a demo...... i'll make some picket signs and if someone else can make up a catchy chant (i'm not really good at that kind of thing) we can really make our thoughts be known in the most effective way....

while we're at it i think we should demand that they bring back some of those younger brew-staff stallions who's names rhyme with 'spam' and 'wham' as the place hasn't been the same without them........ the new staff member who's name rhymes with 'when man?' is certainly a plus and is the most pleasant to the eye but unfortunately he's not as 'hands on' as the other fellas. 

come armed with your mash paddles and i'll see you there my fellow brewing community shepherd-worriors

(home)brew(shop)strong


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## yardy (9/2/12)

alcoadam said:


> Glad I don't work for a home brew shop, tough enough getting performance appraisals from the boss let alone a community of online strangers.... h34r:



I'm glad you don't work in a HB shop with an attitude like that, I would slag you off anonymously on a public forum if I encountered you in a shop and didn't approve of something you said or did.


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## Cocko (9/2/12)

alcoadam said:


> Glad I don't work for a home brew shop, tough enough getting performance appraisals from the boss let alone a community of online strangers.... h34r:



What if you *owned* a HB shop?

How would you consider a rather long thread of posts reflecting peoples, being pretty much your customer/s, by it being restricted to a forum of users of your product, would that make it tougher or some what easier to keep growing your business? assuming thats where any business is desiring to head....

2 fucked up cents.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/2/12)

I really expected this thread on a Saturday night, little early this week. I am going out to find a girl on Saturday night so I guess its going to be quite :drinks: 
Nev


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Mate nothing against you but there are a few of us that have seen lots of things in our lives and feel a need to have an opinion, as far as business goes I get what I dish out, my customers know that as well as I do. They have an opinion I may have a differing one. either way at the end of the day there is no bad feelings, right ? Its business.
> Nev



Opinion is good. You'll see nothing I say anywhere (on this forum or in life) suggesting it isn't. Just me expressing my own in return.

I think addressing the issue directly is more helpful than addressing it indirectly. Opinion is still expressed in both cases. 

For example - I have had disagreements with people on here that could have turned to useless slinging of insults at various points. I have instead, met said people when they live locally and shared beer. Those who live interstate have been contacted by PM to clarify any misunderstandings. Not hard to do - kind of what yardy is getting at. I now have an issue with only 2 forum members - one who shit stirs constantly and one who refused to answer any PMs long ago and is generally a rude arsehole. The first I would still drink beer with.

I've bought silicon hose from you. If it was 2cm short and I made a thread here before ringing you/pming you/emailing you and giving you a chance to sort it out, I reckon I would be a nob. You'd be right to consider me one too.

@losp: I'm not really directing this at you - a number of people have had problems with that particular guy and a number of them have posted here. I'm not sure why they haven't, instead, addressed the issue at the source, something I am now attempting to do. A lot of my responses were general rather than specific. Rather than jump in on the lynch mob, make your complaint known to the person who can make a difference (again generic rather than specific 'your').


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## loikar (10/2/12)

And now for something different...


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## jyo (10/2/12)

manticle said:


> I've bought silicon hose from you. If it was 2cm short...



When Nev is serving his wobbly silicone hose every cm matters. h34r:


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## losp (10/2/12)

BeerFingers said:


> And now for something different...




when goatse and kermit join forces. i think its time for bed.


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## christmasbender (10/2/12)

BeerFingers said:


> And now for something different...



different eh.......? c'mon.... who hasn't been presented with a frogs ass like that before.......

watch  from start to finish and then tell me you haven't seen something different


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## Feldon (10/2/12)

Geez, enough material in this thread for a defamation suit.

And as for dobbing the alledged offending staff member in to his boss, geez...


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/2/12)

manticle said:


> Opinion is good. You'll see nothing I say anywhere (on this forum or in life) suggesting it isn't. Just me expressing my own in return.
> 
> I think addressing the issue directly is more helpful than addressing it indirectly. Opinion is still expressed in both cases.
> 
> ...


Arrr but you see I always make sure its 2 cm longer because i have life experience that tells me to do that. I dont think any one is a nob, some times I just dont agree. If you complained I would send you the extra 2 cm . :lol: 
Relax I know you are not a nob.
Nev


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## Feldon (10/2/12)

Geez, enough material in this thread for a defamation suit.

And as for dobbing the alledged offending staff member in to his boss, geez...


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## manticle (10/2/12)

Feldon said:


> And as for dobbing the alledged offending staff member in to his boss, geez...



?


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## Bada Bing Brewery (10/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Arrr but you see I always make sure its 2 cm longer because i have life experience that tells me to do that. I dont think any one is a nob, some times I just dont agree. If you complained I would send you the extra 2 cm . :lol:
> Relax I know you are not a nob.
> Nev



Xmas WA case swap - I'll be there in line with everybody else to get what is owed .... tape measures out boys.
Cheers
BBB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/2/12)

Feldon said:


> Geez, enough material in this thread for a defamation suit.
> 
> And as for dobbing the alledged offending staff member in to his boss, geez...


Burn him he, is quite possibly a witch/warlock. Monty python vs sanity.
We may think AHB is the big ticket and has some sway but a lot of my customers dont even know it exists.
Nev


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## yardy (10/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Burn him he, is quite possibly a witch/warlock. Monty python vs sanity.
> We may think AHB is the big ticket and has some sway but a lot of my customers dont even know it exists.
> Nev




you should vilify them then, it's the done thing.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/2/12)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Xmas WA case swap - I'll be there in line with everybody else to get what is owed .... tape measures out boys.
> Cheers
> BBB


You wont even get past the gate.
Nev


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## Bada Bing Brewery (10/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You wont even get past the gate.
> Nev


The line will be that long .....


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/2/12)

yardy said:


> you should vilify them then, it's the done thing.


I agree, its the done thing. Mob rules. :icon_drunk: 
Nev


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/2/12)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> The line will be that long .....


I will give you that one, clever.
Nev


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## christmasbender (10/2/12)

manticle said:


> ?




faceless internet personas..... if you have an issue with this lhbs staff member....... man up and say something to the guy........ i did.... and he was really nice to me..... try it..... you might like it....... we've been the best of buds ever since..........


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/2/12)

Feldon said:


> Geez, enough material in this thread for a defamation suit.


I will have mine (suit) double breasted in herringbone tweed thanks.
Thats me for the night, thanks for the entertainment :icon_cheers: 

Nev


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## IainMcLean (10/2/12)

Last time I was in Riggers served me. He cracked a couple of good jokes. Even made my 9 month old boy smile so he can't be that bad.

There have been times when he's been a bit of a sour faced git but so what. On Saturday mornings I'm not Mr Charisma either.

I'll agree sometimes it's not the A1 customer service you'd want - especially for noobs - but if you listen to his brewing demo's or pick his brains he knows his stuff. I think reading this thread the character assassination is a bit harsh...

Thinking about it I'd prefer Riggers in the store over some kid who knows fuckall but works for a low wage on a Sunday and who thinks he's it - anyone been to the store in Bentleigh? Jeez. That guy's a prime example of an expert in his own mind... 

Give the guy a break.


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## manticle (10/2/12)

christmasbender said:


> faceless internet personas..... if you have an issue with this lhbs staff member....... man up and say something to the guy........ i did.... and he was really nice to me..... try it..... you might like it....... we've been the best of buds ever since..........




I have an issue with stuff going round and round on the internet without people manning up and saying something to the business, particularly a business I frequent and use and recommend regularly. Dobbing someone in would be if I worked there and tried to undermine my colleague.

Complaining about shit service to the actual shop (or in my case drawing attention to the fact that people are indirectly complaining) is hardly dobbing - if you think it is you may need to re-examine.

I'm not faceless either - have had face to face communication with said HBS owner as I organised a recent bulk buy there and have been a regular customer for a couple of years. Iwant more people to go there because I think it's great and the staff are generally great also.

Very happy dude was nice to you. Didn't change the fact that several people I know have decided not to spend between hundreds and thousands in the shop because his attitude is inappropriate. **** it's not as if anyone wanted to ask him to clean out the bins so they could scrape out the free old yeast. 

'I'm interested in a kegging system'. 

'mmmphhhh'.

Some people ain't got no sensayuma.


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## Wolfman (10/2/12)

manticle said:


> 'I'm interested in a kegging system'.
> 
> 'mmmphhhh'.



I belive that was me and he didn't take my $1500 off me that day.


Edit: Spellings


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## pk.sax (10/2/12)

Can't believe I'm saying this, this thread needs to be closed down maybe closed for a day or two until 'real' people have had had a chance to talk.


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## Liam_snorkel (10/2/12)

Haha. Old matey is going to dislike "The Internet" even more now.


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## DU99 (10/2/12)

i have used the foremetioned store and have no issues with staff in the store,their alway's helpful with advice,and as stated in above post i prefer to get assistance from someone who has year's experience than some kid who has very little experience..People have to remember this store has provided BAIB demo's for free,and the grain bulk buy's..


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## angus_grant (10/2/12)

BeerFingers said:


> And now for something different...



Well, there goes the "tight as a frogs arsehole" comment!! What the hell has Miss Piggy been doing?????????

Prob about time this thread was locked. Seems to be going nowhere and at a rapid pace!!


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## fraser_john (10/2/12)

Lots of people have said "man up and say something" etc.....why?

I am the customer, I have $ in my pocket to spend, I get treated poorly, my response is taking that $ elsewhere. It is not my responsibility or desire stand in a store and tell people they are giving the business a bad name. That is for management/owners to decide. 

Pure and simple.


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## staggalee (10/2/12)

christmasbender said:


> omg i'm so with you guys
> 
> let's go down and picket the shop on saturday morning.....



Huh
No way would I be joining a protest led by someone that starts a post "omg I`m so with you guys"  

As a former long time member and delegate for the BLF in it`s heydey, it sounds a bit soft and unpickety if you know what I mean.


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## Rina (10/2/12)

You can hardly blame the OP for the way the thread turned out. All he did was share an amusing anecdote and decided to personally boycott the store. At no time did he openly advise other people to do the same. In any case it turns out a few other posters felt the same way and similarly did boycott the store. The truth is most people are not going to get into an argument with a stores person with what constitutes the vague term 'professional etiquette'. They've already had a bad time in the store and not going to make it worse by getting into an argument. Any way props to manticle for more openly addressing the issue. 

Now I can hardly speak for G&G (cough cough) but a few issues are understandable. The grain thing I guess from their pov you're jumping the queue. I gather most of their customers 'do the right thing' and give their staff plenty of time to crush and pack grains in an orderly, timely fashion while you expect it now even though you did 'the wrong thing'. Maybe they've seen your face before and think, 'this guy should know better'. I mean homebrewing is not exactly an impulse hobby. As far as opening on Sunday there are penalty rates associated with that so obviously the owner has weighed up the pros and cons before and at this time does not think it is necessary. In the future who knows? From what I can gather G&G is probably an internet store first and a retail outlet second. 

The witch hunt on the guy- eh I think it's very telling by the amount of vitriol he got that he has personally offended quite a few people that have decided to 'strike back'. You may think thats cowardly but whatever. By the same token posters have been unanimous in their praise of other staff members especially of the man 'who has hair, is holding a beer and whose name rhymes with 'this'. This hasn't been a slam on G&G but rather one of their employees. I doubt anybody wants the guy to get sacked just for the guy to act a little more courteous and that his style of humor may not by 'appreciated' by everybody next time.


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## christmasbender (10/2/12)

manticle said:


> I have an issue with stuff going round and round on the internet without people manning up and saying something to the business, particularly a business I frequent and use and recommend regularly. Dobbing someone in would be if I worked there and tried to undermine my colleague.
> 
> Complaining about shit service to the actual shop (or in my case drawing attention to the fact that people are indirectly complaining) is hardly dobbing - if you think it is you may need to re-examine.
> 
> ...





wasn't having a go at you manticle...... i love you..... that joke shop clip..... had me pissing myself.... stick your hand in that tube........ riggers should get a tube...... or sell crabs..... haha


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## bum (10/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Suggestion to the OP "don't have an opinion people dont like it". :icon_cheers:


If you simply must have an opinion, there is strict etiquette to follow and only certain narrow fora in which it can be expressed (under further regulation).

Those of you suggesting a brewer shouldn't warn other brewers about (perceived) poor advice are doing all brewers a disservice. Up to the individual to make of it what they will.


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## barrel01 (10/2/12)

Guys I am very new to home brew, this is my second post on the forum and probably doesn't carry much weight.

I am fermenting my second batch now. I went straight for kegging and a kegerator setup and have dealt with Riggers a few times in last couple of weeks. I think it may just be his dry personality / sense of humor that may have come across the wrong way to some people.

He has really helped me out and saved me some $$$ on my set up, discussed the setup of my stc-1000 and placement of temp probe. 

One of the kegs I originally bought turned out to have a slow leak from a pin hole, I wasn't sure about it but he told me to go home and spray with Starsan and leave it alone for 20 mins, sure enough there was a large mass of bubbles around the small hole.

I took it back the next day and he served me again, swapped over the keg and was more than happy to have a chat again. I bought some fresh wort and he suggested some hops and finnings to add and told me how to do it, 

I really don't know the guy very well, it is just my personal experience but he as been very helpful to me. This site has also provided me with plenty of helpful information, like most other forums you just have to sought the chaff from the hay.


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## grainandgrape (10/2/12)

Everyone,

Ive asked the mods to reopen this thread so I can respond. I didn't ask for it to be closed.

First of all I want to say that I take responsibility for the business and my employees. I and we are all far from perfect.

Thanks for the comments from everyone. As tough as it is, and it is very tough on Paul, we want to know how people are feeling. If anyone would like to speak to me, please call me, especially losp on 03 9687 0061 and just ask for John. This applies to anyone and any issue in the future too. 

I have spoken with Paul (Riggers) who has read through the thread and initially the action taken is going to be in two parts:

The dont go on the internet comment and attitude is out of line and that has been spoken about. 

The Grumpy Old Man thing will be toned down.

Beyond that Im not going to conduct a public performance appraisal. 

As Ferg says Paul has done more for home brewing than most people over nearly 20 years. Judging, officiating in his brewing club and at state level, going to club members and customers houses to help with their brewing or systems. It also should be said that Paul is well aware of his own personality and cops ang gives a fair bit of good natured banter both from customers and employees so feel free to have some fun.

Thanks for all of the positive comments although it must be costing Chris a fortune bribing all of you guys.

Cheers

John


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## big78sam (10/2/12)

grainandgrape said:


> Everyone,
> 
> Ive asked the mods to reopen this thread so I can respond. I didn't ask for it to be closed.
> 
> ...



This response has impressed me greatly. I will now be directing more of my business to G&G. Well done for responding to comments in such a straightforward manner. 

I feel like a bit of a mongrel for complaining on a public forum when I could have done what Manticle did and contacted G&G directly if I had a problem...


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## stillscottish (10/2/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Burn him he, is quite possibly a witch/warlock. Monty python vs sanity.
> We may think AHB is the big ticket and has some sway but a lot of my customers dont even know it exists.
> Nev



How do you know he's a witch?


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## loikar (10/2/12)

Mods:

Please lock\close this thread again.

There's no need for it to continue.


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## Rina (10/2/12)

big78sam said:


> I feel like a bit of a mongrel for complaining on a public forum when I could have done what Manticle did and contacted G&G directly if I had a problem...


But its totally human.

Anyway the issue closed (and so should the thread?) feel comfortable enough go to the man himself if you have any problems.


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## Mikedub (10/2/12)

For the record, whenever you enter a LHBS here in Sydney you are greeted with a hug and a pint,


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## sponge (10/2/12)

stillscottish said:


> How do you know he's a witch?



Clearly he weighs the same as a duck.... 



And is obviously made of wood.




Sponge


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## ShredMaster (10/2/12)

Well said G&G! 

Everybody has off days and sometimes being asked the same question by tens of people day in and day out gets tiresome, we call it being shop-blind or shop-deaf. I get the same way sometimes (in my job) and the ability to be aware of it is a difficult skill to acquire. On that same note, I also have a strong personality sometimes and will invariably clash with some people from time to time, nothing can be done about it except simply being courteous and polite.

Good on ya for responding G&G, shows me that you take alot of pride in your business! One day I'll head down and check out the place...

Cheers,
Shred.


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## Maheel (10/2/12)

Mikedub said:


> For the record, whenever you enter a LHBS here in Sydney you are greeted with a hug and a pint,



i wondered why all the Vic's are moving to QLD...


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