# Doubling the cells of wyeast packet.



## Kingy (10/11/13)

Howdy I've never used liquid yeast before, so I thought I'd give it a go. The packet says for 5 gallons. I haven't done much farming before (once only, bout 5 years ago with dry yeast slurry)
I've got a double batch to ferment. 44litres of hefeweizen.
To get more yeast do I just make a starter? How big of a starter would I make? And once finished fermenting do I decant the liquid and just add the yeast.
Could I make up say 3x1.25litre bottles using DME and split the yeast from the packet into each bottle. Let ferment out then add all 3 bottles to fermenter? Would that be enough yeast? 

Cheers in advance.


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## NewtownClown (10/11/13)

www.mrmalty.com will give you the deails. Yeast viability is dependent upon the age of the yeast, how it has been stored.
How high the OG of the beer is will determine how much yeast is needed,,,


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## JDW81 (10/11/13)

I make a 2l starter for 23L batches of 1050-1060 wort. I let the yeast settle and then decant off most of the liquid. I don't use the Mr Malty calculator, and haven't ever run into any problems with lag, poor ferments, under attenuation using this method.

IMHO a 4 litre starter would put you in the ballpark of enough yeast. If it were me I'd make a 4 litre starter and pitch that. 

JD


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## Kingy (11/11/13)

Thx guys Mr malty says I need to use 2 packets of wyeast.
20bux on yeast is not going to happen lol.
With just one packet:
Could I just use a 2 litre flask with wort let that ferment out then decant and add another 2 litres of wort then when that's done decant and use all the yeast at the bottum?


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## NewtownClown (11/11/13)

whats the manufacture date on the pack u have? that is an indication of the viability and effects the required starter size...

The calculator I linked to tells you the size of starter based on viability and OG


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## Kingy (11/11/13)

29th august is the date.
I brought the mrmalty app for iPhone and it says 3 packets in 3litres??? Surely that's not right.


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## JDW81 (11/11/13)

Kingy said:


> 29th august is the date.
> I brought the mrmalty app for iPhone and it says 3 packets in 3litres??? Surely that's not right.


 Mrmalty gives you an ideal number. If you can't get that much yeast then your beer isn't going to be ruined. If you only have one pack and a 2L flask then make that, let it settle and decant into your wort.

I've made 23L batches with a 1L starter from a single pack with no ill effects. I'm sure a 2L starter will do the job with a fairly new pack of yeast. It isn't ideal, but we all have to make do some time. Alternatively, go to the shop and buy 3L of cheap apple juice, tip it out (or drink it) and make a 3L starter in that. You'll get closer to your yeast count that way. Just seal it with tin foil or glad wrap and a rubber band.

JD


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## Yob (11/11/13)

Kingy said:


> Could I just use a 2 litre flask with wort let that ferment out then decant and add another 2 litres of wort then when that's done decant and use all the yeast at the bottum?


No. the yeast will 'grow' to the optimum number of yeast for that second 2lt starter, adding more wort to the full yeast wont get you more growth as such, 

if it were me, Id make the 2 lt starter and let it rip, once complete, I'd take 1/4 of the yeast and pitch to a new 2lt starter to get the extra growth, once complete, combine the 2 farms and away you go..

The thing about starters, is that it can take just as long to faff about with as the actual ferment h34r:


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## Kingy (11/11/13)

I've got a few 5litre demis. So basically I just make up a 4litre wort with DME. No step up. Just dump the liquid yeast into the Wort. Let it ferment out. Decant it except for a little bit to stir the yeast up and tip into my double batch wort.

No wonder I've stayed with dry yeasts for so long lol


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## Yob (11/11/13)

dont forget to shake it to aerate every few hours or as often as you can.


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## Kingy (11/11/13)

Cheers so could I make up a 4litre starter and once that's finished split the yeast into 4 quarters. Then make up 4 x 4litre starters and add a quarter of yeast to each then let them ferment out. 
I could then use the yeast from one for my current Batch and probly have enough left over for another 3 future batches.
If so that's cool! I'm liking the sound of this farming stuff lol.


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## Yob (11/11/13)

http://yeastcalc.com/

Its worthwhile getting your head round whats required for your brew..

OG+Volume = Pitch rate


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## HalfWit (11/11/13)

You will require a LOT of head space because it is a top fermenting yeast, at least 33%.


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## squirt in the turns (11/11/13)

Kingy said:


> Cheers so could I make up a 4litre starter and once that's finished split the yeast into 4 quarters. Then make up 4 x 4litre starters and add a quarter of yeast to each then let them ferment out. I could then use the yeast from one for my current Batch and probly have enough left over for another 3 future batches. If so that's cool! I'm liking the sound of this farming stuff lol.


Bear in mind that viability of the yeast will immediately begin to decline, so you'll want to use those extra cultures fairly quickly. They'll be fine refrigerated for a few days, but the Mr Malty calculator will give you a good idea of how quickly the viability changes - and that's designed for pure yeast packaged in optimal conditions, so you could expect more rapid deterioration of the yeast in your starters.

Depending on when you'll be brewing these future batches, a better bet might be to harvest and wash yeast from the trub of your earlier batches, or for top-cropping yeasts, you can harvest from the krausen and pitch directly into fresh wort without washing.


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## Kingy (12/11/13)

Yea sweet so the best way is to use the yeast straight up, then use generations from the primary cake or top crop and rinse and store for future use as opposed to storing the initial multiplied yeast from the starter.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (12/11/13)

Kingy said:


> 29th august is the date.
> I brought the mrmalty app for iPhone and it says 3 packets in 3litres??? Surely that's not right.


Mr Malty is a nut job :blink:
Mr Malty needs to work on his app !
Nev


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## Kingy (12/11/13)

Yea I'm hearing ya, waste of 5 bux coulda bought some extra yeast for that lol


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## Glot (12/11/13)

White labs has some good expert advice on their yeasts with regards growing on their site.
Question. If the yeast in a starter flask is producing CO2 which would displace the air, how does regularly shaking the flask oxygenate the solution?


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## Glot (12/11/13)

Sorry, missed adding the link for those that haven't read it and may be interested.

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew/starter-tips


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