# Keg Transfer Made Easy...



## Ross

I know this method was posted a long time ago by Zwickel, but having used it again this morning to transfer a keg for the Qld swap, I just had to post some pics & explain it. 
Transfering beer from keg to keg can be a real headache, with the recieving keg foaming up as it transfers. This method transfers the beer with perfect pressure balance, with the result being a perfect transfer. It's so simple, but never even gave it a though before Zwickel enlightened me.

Simply connect the 2 gas posts of the 2 kegs together, having purged the recieving keg with CO2 first - This equalises the gas. Then simply connect the 2 beer posts together. Put 1 keg below the other & then give the relief valve of the lower keg a quick release to start the flow. The beer fills the bottom keg & the CO2 from the lower keg transfers to the top keg as it drains. The system is totally closed & in balance :super: 
As you can see from the pic taken straight after transfer, the recieving keg had no foam on it to speak of  

Beer transferring




Inside recieving keg straight after transfer



Cheers Ross


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## oldbugman

So it's just a quick pop of the pressure relief valve on the receiving keg and then it's the magic of siphon and gravity that does the rest?


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## Zizzle

What's up with that second photo? Looks more like dishwater than beer?

Don't worry I have faith in it being good tasting dishwater if it comes from Carbrook


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## Ross

OldBugman said:


> So it's just a quick pop of the pressure relief valve on the receiving keg and then it's the magic of siphon and gravity that does the rest?



Yep, spot on  

++++

Zizzle - That's the CO2 in the keg giving the haze....at least I hops so :unsure: 

cheers Ross


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## NRB

Ross said:


> at least I *hops* so



Hahahaha... someone's obsessed


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## Fents

Ross would this method work with one of your filters in the middle?


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## Ross

Fents said:


> Ross would this method work with one of your filters in the middle?



It probably would, but would take a little time, but I guess in a closed system, time wouldn't be too big a problem. Not sure why you'd want to, since if you have kegs, you more than likely have gas?

Cheers Ross


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## therook

Why would you want to transfer from one keg to another?

Rook


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## Fents

Ross said:


> It probably would, but would take a little time, but I guess in a closed system, time wouldn't be too big a problem. Not sure why you'd want to, since if you have kegs, you more than likely have gas?
> 
> Cheers Ross



yer true gas would be the g.o.

Thanks


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## Doogiechap

Big keg to party keg, blending, sharing. 
 

Ross thanks for the refresher, I only managed to half fill my party keg halfway last week before the foam started pouring out  .
Cheers
Doug




therook said:


> Why would you want to transfer from one keg to another?
> 
> Rook


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## Ross

therook said:


> Why would you want to transfer from one keg to another?
> 
> Rook



Rook,

If you let your beer settle in the keg rather than filtering, it's a good way of transfering off the yeast once its cleared, plus party kegs etc...

Cheers Ross


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## daryl5412

First time poster, long time lurker. Have had all my questions answered until this one!!!!!

If you were transfering from a 18 litre into a 9 litre party how do you know when it is full???

There is obvoiusly a simple answer to this one!!!!


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## frogman

daryl5412 said:


> First time poster, long time lurker. Have had all my questions answered until this one!!!!!
> 
> If you were transfering from a 18 litre into a 9 litre party how do you know when it is full???
> 
> There is obvoiusly a simple answer to this one!!!!




Beer in both lines. Of course.

FROGMAN


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## Zwickel

daryl5412 said:


> If you were transfering from a 18 litre into a 9 litre party how do you know when it is full???


when the smaller keg gets full, beer/foam gets into the gas line, then stop it, or just use a scale.
Cheers :beer:


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## oldbugman

or if the beer is cold you get a condensation line climbing up the side of your receiving keg.


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## daryl5412

Zwickel said:


> when the smaller keg gets full, beer/foam gets into the gas line, then stop it, or just use a scale.
> Cheers :beer:




I thought it would be really simple!!!!!

thanks guys


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## crozdog

Ross said:


> If you let your beer settle in the keg rather than filtering, it's a good way of transfering off the yeast once its cleared,



Ross,

I'm assuming the settling (top) keg must have a shortened dip tube for this to work, otherwise won't you just transfer the sludge as well?

Crozdog


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## Ross

crozdog said:


> Ross,
> 
> I'm assuming the settling (top) keg must have a shortened dip tube for this to work, otherwise won't you just transfer the sludge as well?
> 
> Crozdog



That would do it, or you could simply pour a couple & drink them, to clear the yeast around the diptube.

cheers Ross


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## Zwickel

Thank you very much Ross, for the compliment calling me a legend  

I try everything to do as simple as possible.

instead of shortening the dip tube you may bow it to the edge of the keg like that:






so the sludge stays in the middle.

edit: spelling


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## Batz

I had reason to do this today,works a treat.
Very worthwhile post,I have pinned it

Batz


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## Guest Lurker

I nominate that from now on, this technique be known as "The Zwickel Method".

eg Batz has just zwickelled a beer.


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## Batz

Guest Lurker said:


> I nominate that from now on, this technique be known as "The Zwickel Method".
> 
> eg Batz has just zwickelled a beer.




"The Zwickel Method".

let it be set in stone

Batz


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## Zwickel

youre a bloody kidding bunch of homebrewers


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## Darren

Batz said:


> "The Zwickel Method".
> 
> let it be set in stone
> 
> Batz




Great stuff Zwickel,

Only a fool would cut a diptube.  

cheers

Darren


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## Batz

Darren said:


> Great stuff Zwickel,
> 
> Only a fool would cut a diptube.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren




The keg to keg transfer Darren <_< ,not the dip tube bend

Batz


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## Darren

Both then :beer: 

cheers

Darren


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## Pumpy

I had the need to use this method of transfer from keg to keg .

Followed the instructions Ross detailed and it worked a treat 


Pumpy


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## SJW

This would be a great way to condition/lager brews, as I hate having a fermenter/cube sitting in another fridge for weeks/months conditioning/lagering. This way you can ferment in the primary then transfer to a keg and then transfer to another keg after conditioning/lagering and keep the keg in with your other kegs if u have the room that is.
great post/topic, I think I need to rest my //? key now.

Steve/Steve


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## Pumpy

SJW said:


> This would be a great way to condition/lager brews, as I hate having a fermenter/cube sitting in another fridge for weeks/months conditioning/lagering. This way you can ferment in the primary then transfer to a keg and then transfer to another keg after conditioning/lagering and keep the keg in with your other kegs if u have the room that is.
> great post/topic, I think I need to rest my //? key now.
> 
> Steve/Steve



Yep I am thinking of going that way worth getting a couple more kegs just for lagering


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## SJW

> Yep I am thinking of going that way worth getting a couple more kegs just for lagering


Ross's ear's are burning


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## Greg Lawrence

Is this Zwickel method used for transferring carbonated beer ?


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## Zwickel

Gregor said:


> Is this Zwickel method used for transferring carbonated beer ?


yes it is. The trick is, you wont lose any CO2. After transferring, the beer is at the same CO2 level as before.

:icon_cheers:


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## etbandit

Ross said:


> Simply connect the 2 gas posts of the 2 kegs together, having purged the recieving keg with CO2 first - This equalises the gas.



If the beer your transferring is carbonated at say 12psi, does the receiving keg need to also be purged with 12psi of co2 first before connecting the two kegs and releasing the pressure release valve?


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## Zwickel

etbandit said:


> If the beer your transferring is carbonated at say 12psi, does the receiving keg need to also be purged with 12psi of co2 first before connecting the two kegs and releasing the pressure release valve?


yes the receiving keg needs at least the same CO2 pressure as the dispensing keg is at. You may go higher but not lower with the pressure.


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## etbandit

Zwickel said:


> yes the receiving keg needs at least the same CO2 pressure as the dispensing keg is at. You may go higher but not lower with the pressure.




Thanks Zwickel.

I take it that if the receiving keg has lower pressure, CO2 will start coming out of the the beer being transferred and cause foaming?


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## sqyre

A few months ago I had a keg of beer that i forgot to filter and carbonated it.
i managed to run it through the filter using this process, mind you it took frigin ages. :huh: 
to try and speed things up i occasionally released some pressure from the lower keg but every time i did i could see foam forming in the exit line of the filter. Once pressure had equalised again the foaming stopped.

So carbonated filtering can be done, its just a bit slow.
I wouldnt like to try it on a beer thats been dry hopped with loose pellets.  

Sqyre...


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## Jye

Ive used the Sqyre method (combination of Zwickel keg transferring with Pumpys gravity filtering) before and it worked great. No problems at all and it would probably run even smoother if you upped the pressure in both kegs to prevent any foaming form occuring.


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## Zwickel

etbandit said:


> Thanks Zwickel.
> 
> I take it that if the receiving keg has lower pressure, CO2 will start coming out of the the beer being transferred and cause foaming?


thats it
thats why I go slightly over the pressure the beer is stored at. That makes sure, no gas comes out of the beer, even if it warmes up a little bit within the process.

:icon_cheers:


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## sqyre

Jye said:


> Ive used the Sqyre method



"The Sqyre Method" consists of me walking out to the brew stand at 8am with a hangover relizing it hasn't been cleaned out since the last brew.
Then while climbing back into bed, i push Mrs Sqyre out and yelling "The Beers not gunna brew it's self!!!"
and go back to sleep...  

Sqyre..


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## KHB

i have tried this twice to no avail i use a 5litre garden sprayer keg which i put a piece of hose over the bronco tap with a beer disconnect on it which goes onto the keg and the gas hooks up same aswell, give the little keg a realese and beer flows but i only get a about half a litre and the flow stops.??HELP


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## razz

Do you have a return gas line connected KHB ?


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## Zwickel

KHB, is there a no return valve in the gas line?


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## KHB

no i simply have a piece of line with the gas connect on one end and the other end has one of those clip on connecters for the tyre valve when i connect to my big keg before the little one you can hear it coming out the tyre connection so i know it works


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## Zwickel

KHB you know, the power of the gravity is very low, depends on the hight difference.

A tyre valve is a one-way valve, so if youre going to prefill the empty keg with a little bit more pressure than the dispensing keg is at, there cannot be a balancing gas exchange and the gravity pressure is not high enough to open the tyre valve.

Your problem is the tyre valve.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## KHB

Zwickel said:


> KHB you know, the power of the gravity is very low, depends on the hight difference.
> 
> A tyre valve is a one-way valve, so if youre going to prefill the empty keg with a little bit more pressure than the dispensing keg is at, there cannot be a balancing gas exchange and the gravity pressure is not high enough to open the tyre valve.
> 
> Your problem is the tyre valve.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:




Just re read the method i have been putting the kegs at the same height will try putting longer lines together and having the recieving keg lower and that will probably fix my problem. Feeling like an idiot right now


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## Zwickel

KHB said:


> Just re read the method i have been putting the kegs at the same height will try putting longer lines together and having the recieving keg lower and that will probably fix my problem. Feeling like an idiot right now


ahhhh....mate....but anyway...the connector to the tyre valve should be able to hold the valve open as long as the connector is plugged on, not all of the available connectors can do so.


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## KHB

yeah i know mine holds it open


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## raven19

I just used this method to transfer my keg of IPA.

Bang up job there Ross & Zwickel outlining this simple method.


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## MarkBastard

Just used this method for the first time. Worked very well. Had to purge the bottom keg for longer than I expected, about 4 seconds or so.


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## importmonkey

I've been lurking in the wings for a while, and I think it's time for my question...

Will this work on regular "sanke" kegs? I built a bar in my basement but my kegerators won't hold anything bigger than 1/4 keg. This poses a problem since the main reason I built the bar was for Guinness and Magners. I have the coupler for import keg, gas, lines, etc. Here's the coupler for the D style keg I'd like to transfer to. It does not have a back-flow ball, but I'm not sure if it will support the gas coming out of the gas side. I have a few kegman kits to take the smaller kegs apart and clean them, but when I get them clean...how do I evacuate the air? Should I fill it with water then push the water out with the gas? 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!
-Toby


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## mika

Just used this tonight, taking a party keg down south for the WA long weekend, very happy about that. But anyway, slow transfer, but worked well as I could follow the condensation on the side of the keg which confirmed my maths with the scale. Anyway, at the end of the transfer I've got one line that's just had gas in it, all good, put it away. But the other line has still got beer trapped between the two diconnects. How's everyone going about cleaning that line ? This time I just unscrewed the poppets and flushed the line, but not the smartest option I'm sure.


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## hoohaaman

Just pop both ends and drink it :chug:


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## Trough Lolly

mika said:


> Just used this tonight, taking a party keg down south for the WA long weekend, very happy about that. But anyway, slow transfer, but worked well as I could follow the condensation on the side of the keg which confirmed my maths with the scale. Anyway, at the end of the transfer I've got one line that's just had gas in it, all good, put it away. But the other line has still got beer trapped between the two diconnects. How's everyone going about cleaning that line ? This time I just unscrewed the poppets and flushed the line, but not the smartest option I'm sure.



G'day Mika,
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but when you clean the source keg, wouldn't you run some of the sanitiser and rinse water through the beer line to clean it? Just remove one of the disconnects to let the water flow...

Cheers,
TL


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## mika

I should check back on what I ask more often  
TL, in this case (and I presume other cases) I was decanting from a 19L keg into a 9L 'party' keg, so didn't completely empty the source keg.
I could probably buy a couple of keg posts and use those to hold the disconnect poppets open and then flush the lines with hot water. Was kinda hoping someone had a cheap'n'cheerful way of holding the disconnect poppets open so I could flush the line. I bought beer line for the transfer lines, so pulling that stuff off the disconnects would be a mission in itself.


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## Ross

Mika,

Either upgrade to MFL disconnects so you can just pull apart after transfer - Or if you have a carbonator cap just fill a plastic bottle with some water & squirt through the line while depressing the pin in the other disconnect

cheers Ross


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## michael_aussie

A great thread this.
I was going to ask how to transfer between kegs, found this thread with the search function, and have all my questions answered.
Where have all the "old timers" gone?
I don't see most of these people posting now days?


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## avaneyk

Great thread this one! :icon_chickcheers: 

When you purge the receiving keg are you filling it with sanitiser and then forcing this out with CO2 to remove all the air? One of my homebrew books talks about using tap water to fill the keg for purging. If I did it this way I'd probably boil and then cool the tap water before putting it into the keg.

So how are others doing this?


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## avaneyk

bump


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## sim

if you do your transfers on brew day you can brew with the boiling water, or use it for cleaning. a dedicated keg of sanitiser has been something if been thinking about doing - less intensive than boiling so much water just for a transfer. a little bit over kill, but having that quantity on hand would be nice for recirculating through the brew rig plumbing after cleaning. 


sim


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## raven19

AndrewSA said:


> When you purge the receiving keg are you filling it with sanitiser and then forcing this out with CO2...



I would just purge an empty keg with a few shots of CO2 rather than pushing a heap of extra liquid through it, saves on CO2, and any CO2 in the keg will form a blanket over the beer to avoid oxidisation.


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## avaneyk

raven19 said:


> I would just purge an empty keg with a few shots of CO2 rather than pushing a heap of extra liquid through it, saves on CO2, and any CO2 in the keg will form a blanket over the beer to avoid oxidisation.



I thought about this but was worried about any air left in my party keg ending up in my 19L keg and spoiling the remaining beer. Have you had any issues with oxidation in either keg doing it this way Raven? (I saw your post from a fews years back above so assume you've been doing keg to keg transfers for a while)

I'm not too worried about the Co2. It seems to me that the gas used to push the water out of the small keg would be needed to pressurise it anyway. Also, this gas will end up displacing beer in the bigger keg so its not wasted (I would have used the same amount to serve beer out of the big keg if I wasn't moving it to the party keg).

But then again - if its not necessary, then I wouldn't bother... :unsure:


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## raven19

Nowadays I tend to just gravity filter to keg rather than transferring keg to keg. However once the receiving keg is full as you mentioned there is bugger all headspace. Maybe disconnect everything, then purge the headspace of the receiving keg with some more CO2.


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## beerbog

Has anyone done the keg transfer with the receiving keg having no relief valve? If so how did you get the flow started?

I have a couple of 9L kegs that I want to transfer into without manual relief valves and I was thinking to create the pressure difference 
i would just connect the receiving beer disconnect last with both kegs equalised with C02. 

Has anyone tried this? Thanks. :beerbang:


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## Ross

Gibbo1 said:


> Has anyone done the keg transfer with the receiving keg having no relief valve? If so how did you get the flow started?
> 
> I have a couple of 9L kegs that I want to transfer into without manual relief valves and I was thinking to create the pressure difference
> i would just connect the receiving beer disconnect last with both kegs equalised with C02.
> 
> Has anyone tried this? Thanks. :beerbang:




Just give the gas poppet of the recieving keg a quick press before connecting the return disconnect - this will work exactly the same as pulling the relief valve.

cheers Ross


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## Batz

Ross said:


> this will work exactly the same as pulling the relief valve.
> 
> cheers Ross




:lol: 

Oh well it looked funny to me anyway, I've been working in the sun.


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## skippy

why did i wait so long to buy a pressure release valve for the gas dissconnect!

tranfer at 100kPa from dirty keg - filter - clean corny, 20 L took 5 min


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## Hawko777

Gibbo1 said:


> Has anyone done the keg transfer with the receiving keg having no relief valve? If so how did you get the flow started?
> 
> I have a couple of 9L kegs that I want to transfer into without manual relief valves and I was thinking to create the pressure difference
> i would just connect the receiving beer disconnect last with both kegs equalised with C02.
> 
> Has anyone tried this? Thanks. :beerbang:



Hi All,
Transfering beer needn't be so difficult at all. There are 3 instances when I transfer.

1/After putting fermented beer in keg to go into fridge for a week or so @ ~2Deg C to get dropout or clear beer, no need to filter.
2/ Transfer to 5 L party keg.
3/ Transfer to Bottles.

1/ I dont use any filters, just natural filtration. Wheat beers will need more than one transfer, but you dont loose that unfiltered flavour.

2/ My party keg has a little dip tube inserted on the Gas inlet, set at the correct headspace, beer starts to come out when full and you still maintain the correct headspace. Inlet has a S/Steel tap connected for purging ( Plus John Guest fittings) C02 to generate flow from 19L to 5L, no gravity necessary and you can control the flow precisely. Just use a piece of beer tube with the same quick connects on each end ( Outs) so you suck from one dip tube(19L) to the Out ( with the dip tube )on the 5L. Like all the others said, Pressurize party keg to same pressure, (I have a 5 tap manifold) and slowly release inlet tap to generate flow.
I sometimes use this method to transfer sterilizer if doing more than one keg so all lines, connects, tubes etc get done, then purge O2 with C02 ready to go.

3/ This method of having a Beer inlet, CO2 Inlet and a Purge Valve remains for the transfer from keg to bottles.
I made up 2 Tees joined together with taps and a dip tube on the bottom and a rubber stopper to seal. Works like a champion, you just need to have the capper ready to cap real quick before the gas wants to escape the liquid. Best use cold bottles too.

I will get around to posting some pics of my setup.
Keep the information flowing all ye brewers.

Happy brewing :drinks:


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## sim

Just thought i'd share my blinding appifany with you all, appologies to any who find it bleedin' obvious:

You've got the liquid flow/syphon going, now to link up the two kegs with gas, completing the circuit so to speak. Rather than using an independant piece of gas line joined by two disconnects, you can just wack a double adaptor on the line from your gas cylinder and two gas disconnects at the end. You connect the first gas disconnect on the giving keg to get the flow going, then close the PRV on the recieving keg and wack on the second gas disconnect to complete the circuit.

This worked a treat for me just now, and is convenient for my setup hence my enthusiasm.


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## Amber Fluid

or if you have a manifold just use 2 lines from the same source


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## MarkBastard

sim said:


> Just thought i'd share my blinding appifany with you all, appologies to any who find it bleedin' obvious:
> 
> You've got the liquid flow/syphon going, now to link up the two kegs with gas, completing the circuit so to speak. Rather than using an independant piece of gas line joined by two disconnects, you can just wack a double adaptor on the line from your gas cylinder and two gas disconnects at the end. You connect the first gas disconnect on the giving keg to get the flow going, then close the PRV on the recieving keg and wack on the second gas disconnect to complete the circuit.
> 
> This worked a treat for me just now, and is convenient for my setup hence my enthusiasm.



Isn't this just using gas to push the liquid instead of gravity? Handy but different. Would also mean that you can have both kegs on the same level.

The beauty of the original method is that it doesn't have to 'waste' gas.


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## WillCowan

I transfer from my 19L kegs through to my 9L keg *via a jocky box * to chill the beer for my backpack party keg system.

I will let you know if it works ok using this method.


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## kegs23

this works so good,been doing it this way for a few weeks now as i all ways take a 9l keg to every party i go to,some time even 2 9l kegs,


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## Amber Fluid

Yabba-Dabba-Doo!!.. found it.

Ummmm sorry, just having a spaz attack as I have been searching for about 20 minutes for this.... if only I went to the forums first instead of the search feature. Doh!!


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## tonyt

I did too a couple of days ago, very simple, not even a drop of beer spilt!


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## Rik

Just finished my Jockey box.....time for some camping


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## treefiddy

Looks great!

Just make sure there's no stress on the joins between the coil and beer line, or you'll end up with no gas and an esky full of beer


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## maldridge

Hey guys, I've got a bit of a problem with one of my kegs. It seems to be leaking, probably half way up, on the wall of the keg. It leaks only when it's pressurized, so I'm guessing the keg is farked and I'll have to dispose of it.

I'm going to go and get a new keg today, and the old keg is currently sitting in the fridge at 2c, not connected to the gas, and the beer is not carbonated at all.

To transfer to my new keg, will I be able to just connect the old keg to my kegerator system, and then just pour the beer out the tap, through a silicon hose and transfer to the new keg? As the beer is not carbed up, there shouldn't be any oxidation issues if I take it slow and steady, right?

I read through this thread but from what I can tell all the transfer methods listed is for carbed up beer...

Cheers.


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## NewtownClown

with the transfer method outlined in this thread, carbed or uncarbed makes no difference. If both kegs are at equal (or damned close to equal) pressure, foaming wont be an issue.
With the hole in your keg, it may be best to push the beer out into the new keg using CO2.

Oxidation can occur with uncarbed beer. In my mind probably easier. Careful slow pouring out of a tap through a hose into a keg purged with CO2_ should_ be okay. A better option would be to purge the new keg with CO2 then connect both the kegs at the beer out posts and use low pressure to push the beer from the old keg to the new... slowly releasing the pressure in the new keg as it goes. A good tip is to chill the new keg to help eliminate foaming


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## gordo_t

I'm having a few problems with the this transfer method. once it gets about halfway it starts to really slow, and I get bubbles in the liquid line.
After this I then have to give the relief valve on receiving keg a pull every few minutes to keep the flow going. I take it that I should be able to pretty much transfer unattended after the initial release of gas. Do the symptoms sound like a slight leak in my line, or maybe i'm not putting enough gas in receiving tank initially? It always seem at the half way mark that it slows/stops.


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## Ross

It does sound like you're sucking in some air somewhere during the transfer. Once a siphon starts, it really should continue till finished.


Cheers Ross


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## bradsbrew

G_T_G said:


> I'm having a few problems with the this transfer method. once it gets about halfway it starts to really slow, and I get bubbles in the liquid line.
> After this I then have to give the relief valve on receiving keg a pull every few minutes to keep the flow going. I take it that I should be able to pretty much transfer unattended after the initial release of gas. Do the symptoms sound like a slight leak in my line, or maybe i'm not putting enough gas in receiving tank initially? It always seem at the half way mark that it slows/stops.


I leave the PRV open the whole time during the transfer. Wouldnt the pressure just balance otherwise? If you are getting bubbles in the line either your sucking air or the co2 is coming out of suspension due to the temp change?


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## AndrewQLD

I agree with Brad, as the receiving keg fills if it's a closed system the pressure will increase and slow the flow down, newly fermented beer holds gas, especially if it's cold beer and this will come out of the beer and form bubbles as it warms.


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## black_labb

The method as describes uses gravity as opposed to gas pressure to create the flow of beer. By connecting both gas lines the pressure remains equal between the kegs. If you open the PRV you are allowing the pressure to release until it reaches atmospheric pressure in the head space (or head spaces if the gas posts are both connected, or both PRV's are open). By having the pressure in the headspace and the beer the co2 won't come out of solution. With the PRV open then you are likely to get foaming.


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## gordo_t

Ross said:


> It does sound like you're sucking in some air somewhere during the transfer. Once a siphon starts, it really should continue till finished.
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross


I'm transferring carbonated beer, and I pressurise the receiving keg well before I start the transfer (and only give the prv a quick release before siphon starts going). I sprayed down the disconnects etc last time looking for leaks but found no obvious ones. But once the transfer starts to stop and I give the prv another pull, I do often get a gurgling noise.

Also the first keg would heat up a degree or two during the transfer since its sitting out of the fridge for about halfa, would the co2 coming out of suspension have anything to do with it?


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## gordo_t

G_T_G said:


> I'm transferring carbonated beer, and I pressurise the receiving keg well before I start the transfer (and only give the prv a quick release before siphon starts going). I sprayed down the disconnects etc last time looking for leaks but found no obvious ones. But once the transfer starts to stop and I give the prv another pull, I do often get a gurgling noise.
> 
> Also the first keg would heat up a degree or two during the transfer since its sitting out of the fridge for about halfa, would the co2 coming out of suspension have anything to do with it?


New JG fittings all round, and swapped out the cheap liquid disconnects for the better ones, Problem Solved.
Must have been a leak there somewhere, latest transfer was completely smooth.


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## Tb1978

Any reason this method wouldn't work with a commercial keg? I've just setup my kegerator and need beer for a party in 4 weeks, not yet started the home brew.. Thought it would be good to get a few 50ltr kegs, transfer into 20ltr kegs, that way I can have a few beers or beer and cider in the kegerator all hooked up, and put the remainder 20ltr kegs in a old beer fridge in the garage and swap over as needed.. My kegerator only fits 1 x 50ltr or 3 x 20ltr.. Anyone done this?


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## Drew

I used a 50l keg coupler for the first time last night to transfer to a 12l keg. But all I got was slow downs, foam in the line and the need to pull the PRV about a thousand times. I gave up after getting probably 4 litres done in half an hour.

* 50 litre keg is raised above the height of the 12 litre
* Both kegs at room temperature
* Pressure equalised at 14-16 psi between kegs using grey disconnect straight to CUB disconnect
* Black disconnect to CUB
* Pull PRV to start flow.

Then is just slows down to a bubbly trickle.
Does anyone have a checklist for resolving? I've done corny to corny heaps of times without difficulty.


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## mckenry

Drew said:


> I used a 50l keg coupler for the first time last night to transfer to a 12l keg. But all I got was slow downs, foam in the line and the need to pull the PRV about a thousand times. I gave up after getting probably 4 litres done in half an hour.
> 
> * 50 litre keg is raised above the height of the 12 litre
> * Both kegs at room temperature
> * Pressure equalised at 14-16 psi between kegs using grey disconnect straight to CUB disconnect
> * Black disconnect to CUB
> * Pull PRV to start flow.
> 
> Then is just slows down to a bubbly trickle.
> Does anyone have a checklist for resolving? I've done corny to corny heaps of times without difficulty.


Once the pressure equalises, the flow will stop. Thats why you had to pull the PRV a thousand times. You either need to leave the PRV open, or loop the gas out back to your 50L keg. Its easier to leave the PRV open.
I once had the same slowing problem, but it was the beer disconnect on the commercial coupler. It was stuffed and wouldnt let beer out properly.

Edit v- just re-read your post, you did close the loop. Sorry, try point 2.


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## Drew

Shizer though - how do I identify if the commercial coupler has a problem? (I only purchased the coupler 15 hours ago so it should still be covered by warranty.)

It does have a valve in the stem, perhaps I could try running it without the valve in case it's introducing eddies. It also had a strangely placed spring on the beer output.

Thanks for the thoughts.


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## mckenry

Hope it's not too late. I meant the beer disconnect that you clip onto the commercial coupler was buggered.


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## Drew

Oh cheers for the clarification. In fact It's just a 6mm barb at that end.


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## paulgcorfu

the beer coupling on the commercial keg will have a one way valve on the gas in (either a rubber piece or a ball )
I assume that as the beer leaves the commercial keg that the vacuum created is enough to open the one way valve and allow the gas from the corny in.
I have never tried it but I need to know as I will soon have the same setup/problem.Acommercial keg in my fridge but my kegerator when completed only holding 1 commercial keg or 2 cornys


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## Drew

Paulgcorfu, you nailed it!

I removed the valve





And the keg to keg transfer went flawlessly.

Cheers!


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## hugcra

I am loving this method ! Thanks to all


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## Lovemebeer

sorry guys just asking another novice question, new to kegging, once pressurising the keg ready to carbonate and sticking it in the fridge, can you disconnect the gas connect and let it sit disconnected for a week or so,so i can turn the psi down to my pouring pressure? i only have one co2 bottle and im not force carbonating


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## RobB

Ross said:


> .......Simply connect the 2 gas posts of the 2 kegs together, having purged the recieving keg with CO2 first - This equalises the gas..............Put 1 keg below the other & then give the relief valve of the lower keg a quick release to start the flow...................


I'll be trying this method in a few weeks and, while it has obviously been used successfully by plenty of you, there's one thing which is bugging me.

If the gas posts are already connected, doesn't that mean that by pulling the relief valve of the lower keg, you are releasing pressure from both kegs equally? If so, how does the siphon get started without a pressure difference?


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## barls

have them disconnected and pull to start and then hook them up.
it will keep going.


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## abyss

Thanks Ross it worked for me.


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## wildwhitty

I use a keg with a modified dip tube as a secondary fermenter. It has a 30 Psi relief valve. Transfer to the serving keg after the cold crash. Work every times. Straight on tap.


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## earle

abyss said:


> Thanks Ross it worked for me.


Also worked for me on the weekend. Was transferring from a 19l keg to a 9l keg. Started with the 19L keg sitting on a large paint tin but worked better when I lifted it up onto my workbench. A bit of extra height made for a stronger siphon effect.


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## Coldspace

I've transfered with success all the time with this method. Cold of course.

Has anyone transfered like this from a full warm keg to empty warm keg with success?

I know warm kegs sit at about 25-28 psi, I want to take a couple of 19 ltr full cornies away over Christmas , and 2 x 5 ltr minis. I'll only have refrigerated room for the minis, so when I empty a mini, transfer fill it up from my bulk supply cornies and chill down the mini before serving.
Purge and pressurise mini to same level as big keg. Do you recon the principle will work with warm kegs?

I'd try it at home first but running out of time this week, hectic time of year. 
Cheers


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## quadbox

I've done this fairly often between commercial kegs and my own cornies, works great.

Coldspace: Should be fine, especially if your destination keg is colder than the source keg. Counter-pressure filling works fine at room temp. Just dont burp too much pressure too soon. Make sure the source keg is entirely at equilibrium pressure though, first (as in, if it's warm, make sure it's been warm for 6 days, not 6 hours).


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## Coldspace

That's great news, thought it would be fine. Kegs will be stored under the caravan, each day or 2 counter pressure fill the mini keg.

Can't wait for holidays....


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## bwhouse

Just started transfering for a few reasons. Random question, has anyone come up with a good way to clean the transfer line? With ball lock connectors on both ends, it seems to be a bit of a pain. I am thinking I might get some new connectors with the MFL screw joints so I can disconnect and flush the line easily, but wondering what other people do.


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## Danscraftbeer

bwhouse. I use a spare keg pressurized with Sodium Percarb. Sometimes use something that can push the pin in the unconnected disconnect to let it flow through. If no spare keg on hand I always have 2lt PET bottles with the carb caps. One with sodium Percab and one with Star San. Pressurize the bottle and/or squeeze it to push solution through the line.


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## Kingy

Yea carb cap on a 1.5litre bottle comes in very handy for cleaning beer lines etc.


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## bevan

bwhouse said:


> Just started transfering for a few reasons. Random question, has anyone come up with a good way to clean the transfer line? With ball lock connectors on both ends, it seems to be a bit of a pain. I am thinking I might get some new connectors with the MFL screw joints so I can disconnect and flush the line easily, but wondering what other people do.


I have one of these in the middle between the connectors so I can drain it.
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/RIECYHUL-hoses-and-fittings/7JOHN%20GUEST%20CONECTOR--john-guest-straight-connector


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## bwhouse

Thanks guys, good tips. Looks like I will need to get another carb cap.

I have always liked the idea of John Guest connectors but wondered how they faired over time with constant disconnects and re-connects.


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## Wolfman1

I just tried this for the first time with a bunch of plastic bottles for camping. So quick, clean and easy


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## Nullnvoid

Will this method work for the minikegs?

And also, I don't keg currently, so if I get a 19litre keg and store beer thats been fermented but not carbed in there can I keep topping up the minikeg until the big keg is empty?

I know it sounds crazy, but yada yada yada, been given permission to get a minikeg, just not into kegging...just yet. So working out temporary (I hope) solutions to the problem of storing the rest of the beer if I don't want to bottle. a batch that doesn't fit in a minikeg.

Is there any other answers to questions I haven't thought of yet?


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## bevan

Nullnvoid said:


> Will this method work for the minikegs?
> 
> And also, I don't keg currently, so if I get a 19litre keg and store beer thats been fermented but not carbed in there can I keep topping up the minikeg until the big keg is empty?
> 
> I know it sounds crazy, but yada yada yada, been given permission to get a minikeg, just not into kegging...just yet. So working out temporary (I hope) solutions to the problem of storing the rest of the beer if I don't want to bottle. a batch that doesn't fit in a minikeg.
> 
> Is there any other answers to questions I haven't thought of yet?


I use this method to transfer into my mini kegs from my corny. Though we're talking carbed beer. 
Are you planning on getting a co2 bottle (eg 2.6kg)? If you can get one it would help. As the level of the corny drops you are going to use a fair bit of co2 (if you are using bulbs) as it get down towards the end.


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## Nullnvoid

bevan said:


> I use this method to transfer into my mini kegs from my corny. Though we're talking carbed beer.
> Are you planning on getting a co2 bottle (eg 2.6kg)? If you can get one it would help. As the level of the corny drops you are going to use a fair bit of co2 (if you are using bulbs) as it get down towards the end.


Yeah, as luck would have it, I have a CO2 bottle. Empty but have one. Although no regulator so I am guessing I will have to get one of those.


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## mofox1

Nullnvoid said:


> Yeah, as luck would have it, I have a CO2 bottle. Empty but have one. Although no regulator so I am guessing I will have to get one of those.


Bummer - had I known that last weekend we could have worked something out!


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## Nullnvoid

mofox1 said:


> Bummer - had I known that last weekend we could have worked something out!


Gas bottle wise?


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## mofox1

Nullnvoid said:


> Gas bottle wise?


Reg.


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## Nullnvoid

Ahh bugger. Doesnt matter


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## bingggo

I have been applying this technique to PET bottles. Just posted a musing about some questions arising over here if anyone's interested 

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/bottling-from-warm-cool-keg-at-pressure-tips.99852/

Cheers,
B


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## Engibeer

Does anyone have a solution to the flow stopping? I use this method however I have to pull the PRV about 10 times during a transfer as the flow stops...


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## mofox1

Engibeer said:


> Does anyone have a solution to the flow stopping? I use this method however I have to pull the PRV about 10 times during a transfer as the flow stops...


Shouldn't need to happen... Blocked flow? Over gassed? Maybe gas is coming out of solution and mucking up the syphon... Could try adding another psi to the headspace.

You could also try an increase the vertical separation (hydrostatic pressure) to keep the flow going. In theory you only need to have the level of beer in the target lower than the level of beer in the source, but I find mine works well if there is a whole keg height difference.


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## wide eyed and legless

Engibeer said:


> Does anyone have a solution to the flow stopping? I use this method however I have to pull the PRV about 10 times during a transfer as the flow stops...


Are you equalising the pressure, or better still recirculating the co2 back into the fermenter as it is emptying?


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## Engibeer

wide eyed and legless said:


> Are you equalising the pressure, or better still recirculating the co2 back into the fermenter as it is emptying?



Recirculating > CO2-CO2 and Liquid-Liquid


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## wide eyed and legless

Engibeer said:


> Recirculating > CO2-CO2 and Liquid-Liquid


I had a similar problem with the snub nose transferring from primary to secondary, really frustrating when it happened couldn't work out what was causing it turned out it was gas in the liquid line.


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## Frothy Boi

Just used this method for transferring from fermentasaurus to keg, amazing! This thread/technique should be mandatory reading for any keg owner.


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## jollster101

Frothy Boi said:


> Just used this method for transferring from fermentasaurus to keg, amazing! This thread/technique should be mandatory reading for any keg owner.


I was hoping to read somewhere in this thread that someone had done this. To date I have always used CO2 to do a closed loop transfer from the FS to the receiving keg. Knowing you can do it via this method and therefore saving a bit of precious CO2 is great.

Cheers


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## splitice

I've had difficulties with the fully enclosed method with high gravity beers myself and if using floating dip tubes it tends to eventually start to short circuit due to dip tube sucking some gas and eventually equalizing.

Other than that if you have patience it works.


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## chesl73

I'm not sure what's going on but this just isn't working for me - any thoughts on what might be the problem would be appreciated, here's my situation:
I have two kegs, both are half full with the same beer so I want to move the beer from one keg to the other. They are both pressurised and hold their pressure. I raise the keg onto the bench and leave the receiving keg on the floor. I hook them up via a gas-to-gas line to ensure they are at the same pressure. I connect both liquid-to-liquid connectors. I remove the gas connector on the receiving keg and I give the receiving keg release valve a little pull to release some gas. The liquid just sits there and remains in the keg on the higher bench, whether I hook up the gas again to both or not doesn't make any difference.
What's strange is that even if I take the gas to gas line off completely and I hook up the keg on the bench to the gas bottle and I give the release valve a pull on the receiving keg again it still doesn't work. So in this case the only thing connecting the kegs is the liquid-to-liquid line.
I'm at a bit of a loss. Any ideas?


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## RRising

chesl73 said:


> I'm not sure what's going on but this just isn't working for me - any thoughts on what might be the problem would be appreciated, here's my situation:
> I have two kegs, both are half full with the same beer so I want to move the beer from one keg to the other. They are both pressurised and hold their pressure. I raise the keg onto the bench and leave the receiving keg on the floor. I hook them up via a gas-to-gas line to ensure they are at the same pressure. I connect both liquid-to-liquid connectors. I remove the gas connector on the receiving keg and I give the receiving keg release valve a little pull to release some gas. The liquid just sits there and remains in the keg on the higher bench, whether I hook up the gas again to both or not doesn't make any difference.
> What's strange is that even if I take the gas to gas line off completely and I hook up the keg on the bench to the gas bottle and I give the release valve a pull on the receiving keg again it still doesn't work. So in this case the only thing connecting the kegs is the liquid-to-liquid line.
> I'm at a bit of a loss. Any ideas?



I would disconnect the gas line and put a little bit more pressure in the donor keg then release a little pressure in the receiver should get the beer flowing.

Maybe reconnect the gas line once the beer is moving.


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## chesl73

I did try that, I had the donor keg hooked up directly to the gas bottle, it didn't matter, the beer wouldn't flow. My only thought is that is a blockage or some issue with the liquid to liquid connection? I don't know.


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## fdsaasdf

chesl73 said:


> I did try that, I had the donor keg hooked up directly to the gas bottle, it didn't matter, the beer wouldn't flow. My only thought is that is a blockage or some issue with the liquid to liquid connection? I don't know.


Try transferring in the other direction to see if this works. I'd suspect there may be a blockage in either the liquid posts or the disconnect/transfer line between them


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## golfandbrew

If you have a blockage somewhere a process of elimination would easily sort out where your problem is.

How do you know the beer isn't just moving slowly? Is one of your kegs on a good scale so you can see the change in weight?


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## Willigofasta

Great thread this. Wildwhitty can you explain how you modified the dip tube. Shortening or bending away from the central indentation on the bottom of the keg.
Cheers


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## chesl73

I tried reversing the kegs and still no good. The only possible thing it must be is the liquid-to-liquid connectors and line that connects them. I'll have to go and buy some more.
It can't be a blockage in the kegs as I can hook up a beer line with a simple tap and the beer pours out of either keg fine.
I'll just have to drink the beer in the empty keg faster to empty it out, won't be a problem at the moment in lockdown!


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## dkril

chesl73 said:


> I tried reversing the kegs and still no good. The only possible thing it must be is the liquid-to-liquid connectors and line that connects them. I'll have to go and buy some more.
> It can't be a blockage in the kegs as I can hook up a beer line with a simple tap and the beer pours out of either keg fine.
> I'll just have to drink the beer in the empty keg faster to empty it out, won't be a problem at the moment in lockdown!


If you have a carb cap lying around, check your transfer hose using it to hold one disconnect open.


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## jgriffin

chesl73 said:


> I'm not sure what's going on but this just isn't working for me .... I hook them up via a gas-to-gas line to ensure they are at the same pressure. I connect both liquid-to-liquid connectors. I remove the gas connector on the receiving keg and I give the receiving keg release valve a little pull to release some gas. .... Any ideas?



Yes I realise this is really old, but nobody ever answered the question and someone else might come along with the same Q.

Don't remove the gas connection. Without that, you are expecting gas to flow up and wort to flow down the dip-tube in order for the wort to transfer, that obviously won't happen as it's submerged. As the wort transfers from the top keg to the bottom it will reduce pressure in the top keg and increase it in the lower. Without the gas line to equalise pressures it will stop the wort flowing pretty damned quick and kill the syphon action.


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## JohnE

Bugger, now I need a party keg##


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## duncbrewer

And use the largest diameter liquid line you have, ie 6 mm or 8mm. An 8mm liquid line has double the radius of a 4mm line and so the flow will be 16 times greater. Although the other narrow openings such as posts and diptubes are checkpoints, they will be fixed in either a narrow tube or wider tube system.


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