# You Can't Keep A Violent Drunk Down



## commentking (20/10/10)

Tells magistrate he hasn't visited a pub since head-butting two blokes and stomping on one's unconscious head.

Then goes to a pub minutes after escaping jail.

Gotta admire his persistence, I suppose ...

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2010/10/20/viol...ns-to-city-pub/


----------



## beerbrewer76543 (20/10/10)

These sort of chaps make Northbridge so enjoyable... <_<


----------



## big78sam (20/10/10)

commentking said:


> Tells magistrate he hasn't visited a pub since head-butting two blokes and stomping on one's unconscious head.
> 
> Then goes to a pub minutes after escaping jail.
> 
> ...



He could very easily have killed one of the guys he attacked, especially stomping on an unconcious guys head. Moron.


----------



## Spoonta (20/10/10)

******* idoit like that make my blood boil there is not many places left you can have a good night with out some pissed idiot ******* it right up


----------



## GrumpyPaul (20/10/10)

there is nothing to admire about this dickhead.

The only joke is the ridiculous sentence - or lack of it.

As a parent i have experienced this first hand. My son was king hit from behind and also had his head kicked while he was unconscious. 

He is lucky to be alive. Had 6 brain surgeries. Had aft of his frontal lobe removed. Idiots like this one cause a lifetime of pan for so many.

Check the pick of my boy at www.voicesagainstviolence.org.au.

Almost as stupid as the guy in this article is comments celebrating his stupidity like gotta admire his persistence.


----------



## Shed101 (20/10/10)

Spoonta said:


> ******* idoit like that make my blood boil there is not many places left you can have a good night with out some pissed idiot ******* it right up



Tell me about it. I've always taken 'violence in pubs' stories with a pinch of salt, because throughout many years of drinking i've only ever been involved in one (albeit massive and gruesome) serious incident.

So, the Valley in Brissy has a bad rep. and i thought it was hype having been there a bit. 

Then having not been there for 3 years, I went back and at 3am was covered in some poor blokes blood after someone repeatedly smashed a glass on his head!

... either i'm getting too old to go out or Ice is waaaaay too strong.


----------



## Spoonta (20/10/10)

yep that ice shit is bad my mate a bouncer and a big bastered at that to and I have seen him try to take little guys down that are on that shit and thay just get straght back up


----------



## MarkBastard (20/10/10)

BoroniaNewBrewer said:


> there is nothing to admire about this dickhead.
> 
> The only joke is the ridiculous sentence - or lack of it.
> 
> ...



that's horrible, sorry to hear about that


----------



## earle (20/10/10)

What is it with all the glassings as well? Seems its not a good night for some unless you end up in a fight or glass someone. From OP seems you can do this and get off with a suspended sentence.


----------



## Shed101 (20/10/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> that's horrible, sorry to hear about that



+1


----------



## Pennywise (20/10/10)

People like that need to locked up forever, fuckin shithouse!


----------



## fraser_john (20/10/10)

I lived in the US for ten years, went out almost every Thu, Fri & Sat and got loaded every night. Never once saw a bit of violence in a pub/bar/night club nor outside one. Course, they are probably too scared that the next bloke is packing heat, but.....

What the fark is wrong with the Aussie night/drinking culture? Why can we not just go out and have a good night?


----------



## bradsbrew (20/10/10)

fraser_john said:


> I lived in the US for ten years, went out almost every Thu, Fri & Sat and got loaded every night. Never once saw a bit of violence in a pub/bar/night club nor outside one. Course, they are probably too scared that the next bloke is packing heat, but.....
> 
> What the fark is wrong with the Aussie night/drinking culture? Why can we not just go out and have a good night?



Probably answered your own question there fraser.


Its also a shame that some of the thugs are on the doors as "security"


----------



## Nick JD (20/10/10)

We need more Judges who are prepared to accept that these violent people have a problem that needs to be addressed. 

Locking them up for assault and then letting them slip right back into their old habits is just ******* negligent.

They need help to get to the bottom of what they are punching, and glassing, and kicking _for_. 

They got some shit to deal with, and unless someone helps them deal with it, or they kill someone and get a sentence long enough to be old men when they are parolled ... I hold the Judges responsible for not addressing their issues.

Some people are still trying to punch "Dad" back.


----------



## Bribie G (20/10/10)

fraser_john said:


> I lived in the US for ten years, went out almost every Thu, Fri & Sat and got loaded every night. Never once saw a bit of violence in a pub/bar/night club nor outside one. Course, they are probably too scared that the next bloke is packing heat, but.....
> 
> What the fark is wrong with the Aussie night/drinking culture? Why can we not just go out and have a good night?




The USA has twice as many police per head of population as we do, and sentences are quite severe for even small misdemeanours. They have a zero tolerance / three strikes and you are out policy. I was watching a US "cops" real life on-the-street program. A guy had thrown a beer can at a car. Two police cars turned up, pinned him down and handcuffed him, and the cop was saying "you don't throw cans at cars and that is why you are going to jail". Something didn't gel - jail for throwing a can? Then I checked up and out of the 8 million people in the world who are in jail, fully a quarter are incarcerated in USA jails. I reckon a few years of that policy in Australia would get the trash off the streets. It would also help if the police did police work and not just revenue raising for broke imcompetent state governments like Anna B-lie etc.

Edit: figures speak:


----------



## BjornJ (20/10/10)

My impression is that Australia is not a very violent place, but then again I would usually only go to a normal pub, not a night club.



I'm an immigrant to Australia, been here almost 6 years now.
First time I went back to "the old country" on holidays I had been in Australia 1.5 years.
In that time I had seen two fights, after backpacking/partying from Melbourne to Cairns up the eastern side of Australia plus some trips further in. Lived in Kings Cross in Sydney for months before getting a real job. These two fights were one on the street in Manly and one in Kings Cross.

Then going back to Norway, I saw 2 fights that Saturday. One on the bus (!) and one outside a pub.
I'm from a small village, not exactly what you would compare to Sydney :lol: 

My impression of Australian nightlife and general "pub culture" is that there is a total lack of aggression as long as you stay away from the dedicated hot spots like Kings Cross, Oxford Street and probably downtown Sydney after 2 am on a weekend.
Whenever going to a "aussie pub" in a suburb or outside of Sydney it is alway nice and friendly, people chat to you and generally are very friendly. 

To me it seems there are some spots like those mentioned above that are more "european" as in drunk agressive people stand outside giving each other the evil eye until someone looks back, and then there is everywhere else where Australians don't seem to need to be agressive while drinking.

Same thing with sports. Go to a football match in England and there's police everywhere, don't look at the fans even for the team you are there to watch, they'll still knife you.
In Australia you can go to AFL or a cricket game and the fans from the different teams sit together, there's some friendly banter but that's it.

That's actually one of the things I mention "back home" as different about Australians, the fans sit together and no one minds. That has raised a few eyebrows in disbelief..


Not saying there's not violence and incidents in Australia, there sure are. I do read the paper.
Just saying that as a society it seems a lot safer here, going to the pub seems to have a MUCH less chance of anything happening than in say Northern Europe.

Or stay at home with the wife and have a home brew!
Better company and beer  


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## yardy (20/10/10)

fraser_john said:


> I lived in the US for ten years, went out almost every Thu, Fri & Sat and got loaded every night. Never once saw a bit of violence in a pub/bar/night club nor outside one. Course, they are probably too scared that the next bloke is packing heat, but.....
> 
> What the fark is wrong with the Aussie night/drinking culture? Why can we not just go out and have a good night?




it's not just us, i lived in the UK for 6 years, saw a bloody fight most nights i went out, hanging around with skinheads and gyppos probably didn't help much though.

cheers


----------



## davo4772 (20/10/10)

One more reason to stay home and drink home brew


----------



## jyo (20/10/10)

The scary thing is that I see this this sort of "they hit the ground, the boots go in" attitude occurring in 7, 8 and 9 year old kids. Primary Teacher and it scares me shitless to think of what may become of some them. Overexposure to adult content??? who knows, there has been a cultural shift somewhere along the line...
Cheers, John.


----------



## Nick JD (20/10/10)

BribieG said:


> The USA has twice as many police per head of population as we do, and sentences are quite severe for even small misdemeanours.



They introduced a private (for profit) jail system, that's why you see that first graph. They also have over 3% of the population in jail or on parole. 

You are 10 times more likely to be murdered in America than here. They could put 10% of their population in jail and it wouldn't make a difference. America has issues because so many of them are very poor.

I'm there again in a few weeks. I like the place, but it's not here, that's for sure. Here is one of the best places in the world hands down.


----------



## manticle (20/10/10)

Lived in melbourne almost all my life and while I won't deny that alcohol and amphetamine violence definitely exists, I think the problem is overstated. I've walked down king street many, many times without being glassed or having my head punched in.

It happens. Young people have been punching each other's heads in for some time. Police and bouncers have added to that trend.

It's unnecessary and stupid and I'd like to see it end but I don't believe it's either new or massively different.

I do believe that perpetrators of violence that ends in death, disfigurement or permanent disability should cop a bit more than they seem to. Admittedly most sentencing results I read/hear about come from popular media which I trust like I trust a snail not to eat my lettuce (and I hate the 'let's castrate the bastard' crowd). 

Not a fan of the 'let's lock you up because you chucked a beer can black skinned brother' philosophy either though. Also not a fan of the 'your mum sometimes drank your lunch money so beating that 6 year old to death only gets you six months jail and some lovin' " ethos. Would love to see something somewhere in the middle. Shouldn't be too hard to work out with all that education and training.


----------



## marksfish (20/10/10)

is this all a beat up by the murdoch press?


----------



## DUANNE (20/10/10)

jeez your balls must be hurting the way your stradling that fence manticle! been to court myself a few times on other matters and one thing you learn watching a few cases going before the just is just how soft the system really is.it seems that everyone in there is a "victim" of a bad upbringing and or drug addiction and even if its a twentieth offence they get barely more than a slap on the wrist.until the system comes down hard and starts getting seriuos about punishment the problems will only get worse. why would these poeple think twice about what what they do when all the punishment they can look forward to is a suspended sentence and some counselling.


----------



## drtomc (20/10/10)

We talk lots about sentencing, but the criminologists have been consistently finding for decades that the threat of jail (or even execution, in jurisdictions that have not yet grown out of it) have remarkably little effect on crime rates. Prevention programs on the other hand can be enormously successful, and are much cheaper to boot! I am hugely sympathetic to the victims of this kind of senseless crime, and to their families, and I bet if it was me, I'd be calling for tougher sentences, but I would like to see more emphasis on prevention.

My wife is a primary teacher, now working in community development, and there are some pretty good programs that schools can run to help parents who struggle, and to help at-risk kids before it all goes horribly wrong. A minuscule amount of money would enable a lot more of this kind of stuff.

my 2c,
T.


----------



## drtomc (20/10/10)

@BEERHOG, don't worry, it's about to get a whole lot worse. There has been some stuff in New Scientist recently were the accused have used brain scans to mount a defense "it's not my fault - my brain made me do it". Heaven forfend that our courts should ever accept this watering down of responsibility.

T.


----------



## Sydneybrewer (20/10/10)

i have to say our nightlife here in sydney seems much more violent then when i lived in new york, you could go out and get sloshed any night of the week there without worrying about getting glassed. i have actually once had a chain taken to my face by some bikies in the cross for dancing with the wrong girl, not fun at all. and i used to see brawls every friday/saturday night in my younger days. so just from my experience i would say we are worse then the US and the problems are not going away any time soon.


----------



## rotten (20/10/10)

I love the country, Fist to the head before closing is probably the worst you could anticipate around here. Not that I would know anymore. I can handle myself, but I don't get drunk in melbourne or adelaide when there 'just in case'.


----------



## Nick JD (20/10/10)

The solution to violent crime is to take the violent and sit them down and ask them why they are so ******* angry. 

When you know that you can take the anger away.


----------



## DUANNE (20/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> The solution to violent crime is to take the violent and sit them down and ask them why they are so ******* angry.
> 
> When you know that you can take the anger away.




thats it a good talking to and it will all be okay? dunno what rock youve been hiding under but its this pc bullshit of not punishing the perpetrater because hes a victim to aproach is whats making things worse.ill just rob and belt a grandma today and blame it on my terrible upbringing and drug addiction,get off scott free that way.


----------



## manticle (20/10/10)

BEERHOG said:


> jeez your balls must be hurting the way your stradling that fence manticle! been to court myself a few times on other matters and one thing you learn watching a few cases going before the just is just how soft the system really is.it seems that everyone in there is a "victim" of a bad upbringing and or drug addiction and even if its a twentieth offence they get barely more than a slap on the wrist.until the system comes down hard and starts getting seriuos about punishment the problems will only get worse. why would these poeple think twice about what what they do when all the punishment they can look forward to is a suspended sentence and some counselling.



Not really sitting on the fence at all.

What I'm suggesting is that the system we have here is way too soft _as far as I can see_.

I'm then suggesting that what I see and what is real might be different

The wrong crimes seem to get the most punishment (selling dope to your mates will probably get more jail time than beating a six month old child to death).

However I'm qualifying my understanding and observation with my actual information source. My information comes from dubious sources so I don't want to claim a fact or trend based on what I read in the herald sun.

In a nutshell - I believe violent crimes and crimes that result in permanent damage or death to another party should involve some punitive measure. While things like mental illness should be taken into account, I also believe in personal responsibility and that should be reflected in law. 

A purely punitive society doesn't get anywhere and I'd hate to see a singapore 'whip for litter' attitude become the norm here. I also have no time for the 'molly coddle me because my dad was mean' thing. I do feel a lot of sympathy for people's background and the influence on their lives but I don't think it should overshadow someone else's life being ruined as a result .

Sorry if that seems like I'm sitting on a fence. I'm just not into black and white thinking but I am into thinking.


----------



## argon (20/10/10)

earle said:


> What is it with all the glassings as well? Seems its not a good night for some unless you end up in a fight or glass someone. From OP seems you can do this and get off with a suspended sentence.




Yep you're right about that... at least the suspended sentence part. 

It's shits me that the media have jumped on the "recent spate of glassings"...bullshit!! glassings have been happening for as long as there's been glass, alcohol and f*ckwits.

I got glassed 9 years ago now... right above the right eye... 32 stitches (16 internal) in a 6 inch gash mostly in my eyebrow... can't really tell now.. just looks like a footy scar or something... most people wouldn't even know... the f*cker who did it got 18months suspended. Opened up my face to the bone. 

I used to work security in a residential pub... that's where it happened... was asking a group to leave... didn't even touch anyone and whammo get a bottle in the face... then i get jumped and pinned to a wall. I fought my way out and had decent backup... but i could've been pretty f*cked up.

Drugs, alcohol whatever... the determing factor was that the guy was a douche bag... plan and simple. Take away the drugs/alcohol and you'll always have these guys around... won't stop it one bit... some people are just f*ckers!!


----------



## rotten (20/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> The solution to violent crime is to take the violent and sit them down and ask them why they are so ******* angry.
> 
> When you know that you can take the anger away.



Yeah good luck with that. Should we let them go back home while you take the anger away, and risk it happenimg again? Or actually get them off the street while we do it?


----------



## amiddler (20/10/10)

RESPECT!!!

WTF happened to it??

Simple as that.

Drew


----------



## manticle (20/10/10)

When was there respect by default?


----------



## Bribie G (20/10/10)

There's a wee city in Pennsylvania called Reading that I would love to visit with my camera as it contains superb specimens of Victorian row houses. I've been around it quite few times on Streetview and out of interest have had a look at what the place is like and how people live, and re this current thread here's the court log from the local paper, for the last few weeks. The town would be about the size of maybe Bendigo or Ipswich.

3 to 23 months in jail for failing to disperse. Wow if I go there I'll disperse quick smart yes sireee :lol: 


Judge:	Judge John A. Boccabella
Date:	10/19/2010
Name:	James Lowell
Age:	46
Address:	Adamstown
Charges:	driving under the influence of alcohol
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Wernersville
Sentence:	one to five years in Berks County Prison

Judge:	Judge Linda K.M. Ludgate
Date:	10/19/2010
Name:	Luis Frias
Age:	29
Address:	900 block of Church Street, Reading
Charges:	weapons offenses
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	five years of probation

Judge:	Judge Linda K.M. Ludgate
Date:	10/19/2010
Name:	Kevin Schaner
Age:	24
Address:	600 block of North Ninth Street, Reading
Charges:	endangering the welfare of a child
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	five years of probation

Judge:	Judge Linda K.M. Ludgate
Date:	10/19/2010
Name:	Kyle Cassler
Age:	22
Address:	200 block of Centreport Road, Mohrsville
Charges:	harassment
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	one year of probation

Judge:	Judge Stephen B. Lieberman
Date:	10/19/2010
Name:	Ivette Ortiz
Age:	43
Address:	300 block of North Front Street, Reading
Charges:	delivering cocaine
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	nine months to four years in Berks County Prison

Judge:	Judge Stephen B. Lieberman
Date:	10/19/2010
Name:	Abdil Avellanet-DeJesus
Age:	28
Address:	200 block of North Second Street, Reading
Charges:	theft
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	three years of probation

Judge:	Judge John A. Boccabella
Date:	10/2/2010
Name:	Peter Cruz
Age:	43
Address:	100 block of East Main Street, Caernarvon Township
Charges:	retail theft
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Caernarvon Township
Sentence:	three to 23 months in Berks County Prison 

Judge:	Judge Linda K.M. Ludgate
Date:	10/2/2010
Name:	Eric Wright
Age:	27
Address:	1100 block of North 11th Street, Reading
Charges:	delivering cocaine
Plead:	Convicted
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	five to 10 years in state prison

Judge:	Judge Paul M. Yatron
Date:	10/2/2010
Name:	Alexander Williams
Age:	25
Address:	1200 block of Spring Street, Reading
Charges:	weapons offenses
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	one to seven years in state prison

Judge:	Judge Stephen B. Lieberman
Date:	10/2/2010
Name:	Vernon Peterson Sr.
Age:	44
Address:	600 block of Alton Avenue, Reading
Charges:	simple assault
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	one year of probation

Judge:	Judge Thomas G. Parisi
Date:	10/2/2010
Name:	Pablo Martinez
Age:	33
Address:	600 block of North Sixth Street, Reading
Charges:	theft
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	two years of probation

Judge:	Judge John A. Boccabella
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Joshua West
Age:	22
Address:	400 block of Country Lane, Morgantown
Charges:	driving under the influence of alcohol
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Muhlenberg Township
Sentence:	two months in Berks County Prison followed by six months of probation

Judge:	Judge John A. Boccabella
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Jonathan Witmyer
Age:	23
Address:	1900 block of Van Reed Road, Wyomissing
Charges:	driving under the influence of alcohol
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Shoemakersville
Sentence:	five days in Berks County Prison followed by five years of probation

Judge:	Judge Linda K.M. Ludgate
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Harry DeJesus
Age:	42
Address:	1000 block of Green Street, Reading
Charges:	delivering cocaine
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	one to two years in state prison

Judge:	Judge Linda K.M. Ludgate
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Juan Acevedo
Age:	29
Address:	100 block of Moss Street, Reading
Charges:	weapons offenses
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	four to eight years in state prison

Judge:	Judge Paul M. Yatron
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Hector Martinez-Rodriguez
Age:	29
Address:	1100 block of Perkiomen Avenue, Reading
Charges:	robbery
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	four to eight years in state prison

Judge:	Judge Paul M. Yatron
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Darnell Coad
Age:	35
Address:	first block of South Ninth Street, Reading
Charges:	failing to disperse
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	three to 23 months in Berks County Prison

Judge:	Judge Scott D. Keller
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Quayshawn Knight
Age:	19
Address:	300 block of Madison Avenue, Reading
Charges:	simple assault
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	nine to 18 months in Berks County Prison

Judge:	Judge Stephen B. Lieberman
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Zachary Bortz
Age:	21
Address:	2000 block of Grandview Avenue, Exeter Township
Charges:	delivering cocaine
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Exeter Township
Sentence:	21 months to five years in state prison

Judge:	Judge Stephen B. Lieberman
Date:	9/30/2010
Name:	Sheila Ringgold
Age:	34
Address:	900 block of Franklin Street, Reading
Charges:	conspiracy
Plead:	Guilty
Location:	Reading
Sentence:	four to 23 months in Berks County Prison


----------



## amiddler (20/10/10)

manticle said:


> When was there respect by default?




What I'm saying manticle is In My Opinion, people have lost some Respect in general. People with self abuse problems have lost respect for themselves in some way and people going out trying to pick a fight have lost respect for there fellow man. If these people went out with the mind set to have a good time and stay out of trouble we could all go out and have a great time.

I will say that I don't frequent night spots, would rather a few beers amoungst mates and a trouble free night. Also that the people that do blantent harm like stomping peoples heads should have the book thrown at them. 

The simple answer IMO is to try and culture people to build a level of Respect for themselves and others again. I supose people will say that is a cop out because if the world had a better level of respect we also wouldn't need war but we need to start somewhere and if it was that easy we would have ended war decades ago.

Drew


----------



## pbrosnan (20/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> They introduced a private (for profit) jail system, that's why you see that first graph. They also have over 3% of the population in jail or on parole.
> 
> You are 10 times more likely to be murdered in America than here. They could put 10% of their population in jail and it wouldn't make a difference. America has issues because so many of them are very poor.
> 
> I'm there again in a few weeks. I like the place, but it's not here, that's for sure. Here is one of the best places in the world hands down.


Certainly this comment "I reckon a few years of that policy in Australia would get the trash off the streets" seems very niave. It hasn't worked in the US and most of the "trash" here are probably not criminals per se. They are affected by alcohol and drugs and, in the case of males, a cultural that glorifies male violence. So go ahead, put your sons, brothers or father's in jail. Personally I don't think it will help.


----------



## manticle (20/10/10)

Drew said:


> What I'm saying manticle is In My Opinion, people have lost some Respect in general. People with self abuse problems have lost respect for themselves in some way and people going out trying to pick a fight have lost respect for there fellow man. If these people went out with the mind set to have a good time and stay out of trouble we could all go out and have a great time.
> 
> I will say that I don't frequent night spots, would rather a few beers amoungst mates and a trouble free night. Also that the people that do blantent harm like stomping peoples heads should have the book thrown at them.
> 
> ...




I agree that respect for ourselves and others would solve a lot of problems. I just don't believe humans have had any greater respect for others in times past. There's just a greater number (same proportion though) of arseholes and wider communication so it's more in your face.


----------



## pk.sax (21/10/10)

I don't bother with the clubs here that much, they are shit in comparison, bu just as a thing o think about, in germany, the six months that I was there, never saw even a punching. Have certainly seen that here.

The reason as far as I can see: police presence. Not just around night venues but everywhere. Police patrol the cities and neighbourhoods over there like that IS their job. Here, the cops patrol the CBD and hotspots as a 'special' thing. You could get into a punch up with some drunks when nobody is looking and get away with it. Over there, the cops are patrolling all areas right to your house so if you did some shit, much greater chance you'd be caught. Heck, me n a mate got pulled over on a pushbike at 1AM for riding double on a bike and the cops kindly asked us to dismount and walk home. They even visited my apartment. At 11PM to return my wallet that I'd lost earlier in the day and I happened to be out partying. Maybe they don't have a life, but they sure make yours safer. Our police steps in to do something to solve problems when they are already there, those guys do it to prevent problems. Makes a huge difference and they don't go nazi on ur ass like American cops I've heard do to you.


----------



## nzefactor (21/10/10)

it's this latest bloody generation (insert letter)! No respect or decency. And etc.

I laugh about the olds saying this kinda stuff but unfortunately there's a grain of truth to it. Sometimes it does seem people these days are just plain old selfish idiots.
Gotta say though the drinking culture in the UK, especially in the bigger cities, scares the shit outa me. Masses of people, even chicks, drinking as if the alcohol is the prep work before a night of confrontational behaviour. Bad, bad news.
Gotta figure though in Aus the drinking culture is inevitably going to change. the more people out drinking = the greater the chance of violent confrontation. Kids growing up now are exposed to much more crap than 20 years ago, factor in a whole portion of the population coming from offshore and bringing different social/drinking culture...Shit, a lot of the time we narrowly avoid pissing each other off when we're sober, sure as hell gonna struggle after a couple (12?) of pints.

Have to stop this ability to bail yourself out of a heavy sentence by just turning around and saying "oh yeah, judge? I've got a mental illness. Sorry"


----------



## bcp (21/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> They introduced a private (for profit) jail system, that's why you see that first graph. They also have over 3% of the population in jail or on parole.
> 
> You are 10 times more likely to be murdered in America than here. They could put 10% of their population in jail and it wouldn't make a difference. America has issues because so many of them are very poor.
> 
> I'm there again in a few weeks. I like the place, but it's not here, that's for sure. Here is one of the best places in the world hands down.



Agree. The 'lock up all the bad guys and throw away the key' adolescent mentality that is so prevalent there hasn't reduced violent crime at all since 1974 - at least according to their bureau of statistics. Yet since the privitisation of prisons, they have a higher percentage of their own population in prison than any other country in the world's history. 

VIOLENT CRIME US "Crime in the US, 1960-2004, Bureau of Justice Statistics"


----------



## Nick JD (21/10/10)

Yup, the answer ain't LOCK 'EM UP! 

I've said it twice already, but the answer is addressing the anger. People don't bottle strangers because they're on drugs or pissed - they do it because they are fucked in the head. 

Unless you give them a lethal injection they will be back in society eventually. They need someone to get to the root of their problem and fix it. It's fixable. No one wants to be angry - they just don't. People want to be happy. Something in angry people is stopping them from being happy. It's almost always a very simple thing that no one has bothered to sort out.

Putting them in jail and thinkign that'll wise them up is the biggest load of shit ever. I hope the Judge that sentences them is their first parole victim. Yeah they need the punishment, but unless a decent whack of that punishment is REHABILITATION and therapy, they will bash the first dickhead they meet next time they're pissed.


----------



## fraser_john (21/10/10)

BribieG said:


> The USA has twice as many police per head of population as we do, and sentences are quite severe for even small misdemeanours. They have a zero tolerance / three strikes and you are out policy. I was watching a US "cops" real life on-the-street program. A guy had thrown a beer can at a car. Two police cars turned up, pinned him down and handcuffed him, and the cop was saying "you don't throw cans at cars and that is why you are going to jail". Something didn't gel - jail for throwing a can? Then I checked up and out of the 8 million people in the world who are in jail, fully a quarter are incarcerated in USA jails. I reckon a few years of that policy in Australia would get the trash off the streets. It would also help if the police did police work and not just revenue raising for broke imcompetent state governments like Anna B-lie etc.
> 
> Edit: figures speak:
> 
> ...



Yes, Police do not do police work here in Aus. My step sons dog got stolen off their front door step a few months ago. His girlfriend saw a bloke walking it past her shop, she confronted him and he denied everything, but it was the dog. Then, by chance the were riding their bikes past a house and saw the dog behind the fence. Reported it to the cops, nothing the cops could do, even though they had photos of the dog as a pup, growing up and all.

Slack.


----------



## JestersDarts (21/10/10)

who the hell steals a dog?!


----------



## Supra-Jim (21/10/10)

asreholes do. Unfortunately quite common for certain breeds, esp. Staffys!

This is a situation where micro-chipping your pet is essential! 

Sorry to hear about your SIL's dog F-J

Cheers SJ


----------



## petesbrew (21/10/10)

this guy is an utter f###wit. I don't have the answer to how he should be treated, but surely community service and anger management classes should be enforced for nutters like this?


----------



## MarkBastard (21/10/10)

I'm normally a bit of a civil libertarian but it's getting to the point where I know things will never magically become ideal and so I'd be happy to compromise and bargain away some rights to receive some other rights in turn.

For example, I'd be happy for the government to do something bad if it meant they also did something good to balance it out.

Bad:
The government introduces a microchip into out drivers licenses or ID cards, like what they have on credit cards. This microchip contains our criminal record. Any convictions can result in the usual jail time but also things like "can not drink in a public bar for 10 years" for things like glassings, stomping people when they're already on the ground unconcious, wife beating, etc. Hell they can use that at bottle shops too if they want. As long as all of the 'bannings' are temporary in nature. They could also impose a one month ban whenever you're locked up in the drunk tank as well. Things like that.

Good:
The government significantly reduces the 'sin tax' on alcohol, significantly reduces harsh curfew laws on licensed venues etc.

A lot of places are scanning licenses anyway so at least this may be more efficient. I'm not too concerned that violent wankers will be put out by this.


----------



## Sydneybrewer (21/10/10)

bring in the deaf penalty, NY has it is now the safest city in america... pretty good considering the population of NY state is equal to the population of Aus.


----------



## Shed101 (21/10/10)

Stocks and public humiliation might be a good idea... but then I suppose that would lead to grudges and vendettas, too.

I recently spent a few hours over two separate days sitting and observing Magistrate and District courts.

It's unbelievingly fascinating and addictive. And at the same time frightening. You see some very very sad characters, and hear some disturbingly unreasonable sentences, but everybody should have to witness it at a young age to get an understanding IMHO. 

Fact is, people (well men mainly) in all cultures have always got fired up and gone looking for a scrap. If statistics are getting worse, I wouldn't be surprised if it's partly because people don't get to release their frustration. Most of us are sedentary workers these days.

My old man taught me to be 'handy' from a very young age, but he also told me "if you play rough games you're gonna get hurt" (he didn't say might get hurt!), and the 'ethical' side of things. And my uncle told me how to break ribs etc, aged six, but strangely enough neither of them ever said anything about glassing or kicking people in the face.


----------



## argon (21/10/10)

Sydneybrewer said:


> bring in the *deaf penalty*, NY has it is now the safest city in america... pretty good considering the population of NY state is equal to the population of Aus.




geez that's sounds brutal... cutting off their ears or something... wow h34r:


----------



## Shed101 (21/10/10)

argon said:


> geez that's sounds brutal... cutting off their ears or something... wow h34r:



 Even the soberest subject can have humour!


----------



## drsmurto (21/10/10)

Bogans love glassing c#nts


----------



## Sydneybrewer (21/10/10)

argon said:


> geez that's sounds brutal... cutting off their ears or something... wow h34r:



lol my bad i guess i meant death, but actually the deaf penalty_ sounds_ like a good deterrent... judge: i sentence you to life without your left ear, with your right ear on a probation period of 2 years. defendant: sorry sir i can not hear you i am a repeat offender.


----------



## Sydneybrewer (21/10/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Bogans love glassing c#nts



GOLD!!


----------



## yardy (21/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> Yup, the answer ain't LOCK 'EM UP!
> 
> I've said it twice already, but the answer is addressing the anger. People don't bottle strangers because they're on drugs or pissed - they do it because they are fucked in the head.
> 
> ...




so much knowledge... it must be a burden.


----------

