# Licorice in stout?



## Chods1 (19/5/18)

Hi everyone. An old workmate of mine back in the sixties in country Victoria once told me his grandfather worked for Guinness in Ireland and he reckoned their secret ingredient was licorice. Any way has anyone tried this in say a Coopers stout and if so what was the result? I'm thinking of trying it out this weekend.


----------



## MHB (19/5/18)

Great idea if you like Licorice and don't like Stout!
And no it has never been part of Guinness, just note that when brewers talk about Licorice they aren't referring to the chunky sweet you can get from Coles or Woollies, its a tincture made up from Licorice root, some misguided home brew shops stock it (or used to haven't seen any for years (thankfully)).
Some Belgian beers do use Licorice, in very small doses and its the Root not the extract, you can find the root in some Asian supermarkets. If you want to use it, smash it up (a decent blender works) and add it to the kettle.
Really best avoided I think.
Mark


----------



## thumbsucker (19/5/18)

True Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) does not taste like the stuff you buy in the lolly shop. The flavour associated with Licorice comes from Anise or Star Anise. Both are powerful only a tiny amount (10grams) would be used in a 20 litre batch a few grams in the last 10 minute boil. Be careful. 

I would add a sweetener like 50gm of molasses and maybe some lactose.

Or you could dose the stout with some ouzo before bottling.


----------



## Chods1 (19/5/18)

Thanks blokes. I particularly like the idea of dosing with ouzo. But a bloke would have to be careful as it is a very strong taste.


----------



## kalbarluke (27/5/18)

Chods1 said:


> Thanks blokes. I particularly like the idea of dosing with ouzo. But a bloke would have to be careful as it is a very strong taste.


I remember when I first started out with kits I wanted to do the same thing: add licorice flavour to a stout. I bought some aniseed essence from the supermarket. Added a cap full.

I advise against that method.


----------



## MHB (27/5/18)

thumbsucker said:


> True Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) does not taste like the stuff you buy in the lolly shop. The flavour associated with Licorice comes from Anise or Star Anise. Both are powerful only a tiny amount (10grams) would be used in a 20 litre batch a few grams in the last 10 minute boil. Be careful.
> 
> I would add a sweetener like 50gm of molasses and maybe some lactose.
> 
> Or you could dose the stout with some ouzo before bottling.


Yep real Licorice is a very different flavour, try Jager Meister rather than Ouzo or Annice flavoured sweets, if you want to know what the real thing tastes like.
Mark


----------



## thumbsucker (27/5/18)

If you want to see if true Licorice adds something to a Stout as it supposedly does with Guinness, go to an asian supermarket this is what it looks like:







I would soak it Vodka and dose your kit before bottling. CAREFULLY.
The flavour is akin to a mild earthy woody artificial sweetener that quickly overpowers your palate. Its like eating Splenda packet and all.


----------



## MHB (27/5/18)

Believe me Licorice isn't and probably hasn't been an ingredient in Guinness. There were some very strange beer additives used in the early days of the history of commercial brewing, stuff like Arsenic. Laws in the UK and Ireland were established banning a whole slather of additives, including most herbs and spices (exceptions were made for most Gruit ingredients (no Licorice isn't one))
This started big time in the 17th century, (before Guinness) and by the time Guinness came along brewers were trying very hard to prove the "healthfulness" of their beer the "Guinness is Good for You" motto comes from this period.

If you want to put Licorice in your beer fine, do it (probably everyone does it once - I did) just don't try to support the decision with spurious crap.
Adding Licorice is a 1960-70's home brew idea, dates from when home brewing was illegal and you couldn't get stuff like roast barley, base malt, hops, decent yeast, and a lot of other ingredients that help make home brew palatable.
Imagine having to brew with LME, stale POR or hop oils, white sugar and baking yeast... Thanks Gough for legalising home brew.
Mark


----------



## scomet (27/5/18)

MHB said:


> Really best avoided I think


We used to chew liquorice roots as kids, you had to let it sit in your mouth for ages to get it malleable enough to ‘chew’. Fantastic taste and last for ever, days at least. There again there’s some strange folk up int Pennines. Dont know about in beer it is an unusual taste; but soaked in vodka first! yum! could be the new (hipster) craze. ps. 2” piece for 1/2d


----------



## malt and barley blues (27/5/18)

Loved the old "chewing wood" as we used to call the liquorice root, also came addicted to Liqufruta the cough medicine tasted of garlic and liquorice but in fact there was no liquorice in it.
Soft brown sugar will add a liquorice flavour as will molasses, just knowing how much to add.


----------



## Mat B (27/5/18)

In my early kit days I used to add a few drops of licorice essence (or aniseed) to coopers stout kits. I liked it. Sometimes I'd use black jellybeans to prime the bottles. I probably wouldn't do it now, but it wasn't unpleasant. Agree with one of the comments above that a capful is a lot. Just a few drops is all it took. You could always add it to a glass of coopers stout when drinking to see if you like it.


----------



## thumbsucker (21/6/18)

Last week I made a Baltic Porter taking my lead from the BJCP which states that many example exhibits licorice notes. I also get a strong licorice from Zywiec polish porter one of my favourites.

So I opted to add 40 grams of star anise and 2 kg of dark brown sugar to the last 15 minutes of a 50 litre boil. It has undergone the primary ferment and I tasted a sample even at 40 grams the licorice comes through clearly not overwhelming but it’s their it should fade more over the month long lagering.

Just shows how little you need for impact to get a licorice tinged beer. Even 20 grams in 50 litres should be notable.


----------



## Edd Mather 6 (22/6/18)

MHB said:


> Believe me Licorice isn't and probably hasn't been an ingredient in Guinness. There were some very strange beer additives used in the early days of the history of commercial brewing, stuff like Arsenic. Laws in the UK and Ireland were established banning a whole slather of additives, including most herbs and spices (exceptions were made for most Gruit ingredients (no Licorice isn't one))
> This started big time in the 17th century, (before Guinness) and by the time Guinness came along brewers were trying very hard to prove the "healthfulness" of their beer the "Guinness is Good for You" motto comes from this period.
> 
> If you want to put Licorice in your beer fine, do it (probably everyone does it once - I did) just don't try to support the decision with spurious crap.
> ...


Hi MHB ,
Aah now here's a bit of information for you , Ind Coope ( Burton on Trent brewery) were DEFFO using liquorice in their XXX , XX and X Mild Ales in 1935 , small amounts though , I'll pop a recipe up at some point ,
Cheers
Edd


----------



## MHB (22/6/18)

Perhaps - Haven't seen any creditable information either way, I know some Belgian beers use a bit of Licorice but usually the root mentioned above (have a look at the Browland a Belgian based Home/Brewing supplier) not the tincture or extract that most Aussie home brewers are talking about.
Nor are any of the Indi Coop beers you mentioned Stouts, which is what this thread is about.
I certainly have no issues with the use of Licorice (well appropriate use), there is even a touch in one of my favorite Belgian witbiers the much awarded Blanche de Namur.
In response to above - there is a big difference between Star Anise and Licorice and yes they both pack a bit of a punch. In my experience they aren't flavours that moderate much with time, in fact I find the reverse, as the beer matures and mellows they become more prominent.
Mark


----------



## thumbsucker (22/6/18)

Obviously there is a difference between star anise and licorice the herbs/spice. However the candy licorice derives the majority of its flavour from star anise not licorice. When people think of licorice they think of the candy and the flavour of star anise. So when the BJCP says licorice they are referring to the candy not the root. Since most people would not know what true licorice root is let alone what if tastes like.


----------



## MHB (22/6/18)

Just went and had a look at the BJCP website and searched for licorice - they quite clearly differentiate between Licorice and Anise.
So it think you made that shit up...
MArk


----------



## wide eyed and legless (23/6/18)

I use molasses or brown sugar when making bread they impart a licorice like flavour, you could probably say caraway seeds do also, but one noticeable plant I grow which has a strong licorice flavour is Stevia.
All plants make sugar using light, carbon dioxide and water so it wouldn't be surprising to find that some of those sugars have a similar taste.
I would say molasses or the actual licorice root would be the best choice to give a licorice flavour, but it only needs to be a hint in the finished beer.


----------



## Quokka42 (23/6/18)

thumbsucker said:


> True Licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra) does not taste like the stuff you buy in the lolly shop. The flavour associated with Licorice comes from Anise or Star Anise. Both are powerful only a tiny amount (10grams) would be used in a 20 litre batch a few grams in the last 10 minute boil. Be careful.
> 
> I would add a sweetener like 50gm of molasses and maybe some lactose.
> 
> Or you could dose the stout with some ouzo before bottling.



You are correct, in fact the type of liquorice added to Guinness is in order to create the thick creamy foam - the same thing used to be added to water based fire extinguishers to produce foam!

But Star Anise can add a nice touch to a stout if used correctly - toast it in a dry pan until you can pick up the smell, then add to the boil or final wort.


----------



## hellbent (25/6/18)

Mat B said:


> In my early kit days I used to add a few drops of licorice essence (or aniseed) to coopers stout kits. I liked it.



I had a little bottle of that and would put a drop into a schooner of GA and pour over it, quite nice it was


----------



## Schikitar (25/6/18)

One of the best beers I've had that just hints at what I think you are after is made right here in Tassie by Seven Sheds, it's called "Willie Warmer", the description from their website reads;
_A strong dark ale, full of chocolate notes and spiced with cassia bark and star anise. Guaranteed to warm the extremities._

Anyway, I wouldn't be brave enough to try this myself but star anise sounds like the go to get there!


----------



## jlm (25/6/18)

Schikitar said:


> One of the best beers I've had that just hints at what I think you are after is made right here in Tassie by Seven Sheds, it's called "Willie Warmer", the description from their website reads;
> _A strong dark ale, full of chocolate notes and spiced with cassia bark and star anise. Guaranteed to warm the extremities._
> 
> Anyway, I wouldn't be brave enough to try this myself but star anise sounds like the go to get there!



From memory.........It had about 200g in 1000L at 10 min. Scaled down to home-brew sizes it really means only a touch.


----------



## Redreuben (16/10/18)

I made a medicinal stout, liquorice root, fennel and star anise. Tasted like cough mixture. 
Didn’t like it myself but it was my side of an exchange deal and he loved it so all good.


----------



## Cloth Ears (20/11/18)

I use about 10g of the root in my initial boil (for a 55l brew). I find it adds a fair amount of sweetness without any extra added sugar. And 10g in 55l might sound small, but a little goes a long way. The brew is a (sort of) imperial stout ending up around 11.5-12.5% abv - depending on what I feel like adding at the time. 
So, it's a useful ingredient, but should be handled with caution.


----------

