# Little Creatures Pale Ale Post Buy Out



## malt_shovel (4/11/12)

Well it has been a while since i bought LC Pale Ale in bottles but i did just that the other day and while sipping it from a glass i had a strange moment where the lingering flavour reminded me of some local commercial lagers. That got me wondering whether some POR had crept ibto the brew schedule. Probably a reault of my wild imagination but was wondering if i was not alone in this experience.
Cheers


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## jimmyjack (5/11/12)

Not discounting your experience with the beer. Lion has not taken over anything yet. These things just dont happen over night.


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## Spiesy (5/11/12)

I bought a case on the weekend and was absolutely loving it. Such a good beer, let's hope it remains as such.


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## Nick JD (5/11/12)

A bottle of LCPA I had last week gave me exactly the same reaction - I'd put fifty bucks down that there's now PoR in LCPA. 

The weird part was it also tasted like there was a hint of Citra in there late...


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## NewtownClown (5/11/12)

Matilda Bay has been owned by CUB for 12+ years. I don't feel _they_ have been "tainted" in any way.


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## ploto (5/11/12)

I bought a case of LCPA pints about two weeks ago when I was out of hb and I had not had this beer for well over six months prior, the fist taste had me seriously considering returning the remainder of the case to LL. Maybe just bad handling? I also thought it had that local lager taste, to me it wasn't a association with PoR, more that taste one often gets from beers on tap where the lines haven't been kept clean. Anyway I ended up finishing the case as I couldn't find the receipt and it was hot and I was thirsty, but it really put me off buying it again.


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## Hippy (5/11/12)

I bought a carton of pint bottles over the weekend and agree that there's something not quite right. Seems the common thread here seems to be pint bottles, maybe a suss batch. Hopefully not a sign of things to come as it is my favourite commercial beer.


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## Nick JD (5/11/12)

Hippy said:


> I bought a carton of pint bottles over the weekend and agree that there's something not quite right. Seems the common thread here seems to be pint bottles, maybe a suss batch. Hopefully not a sign of things to come as it is my favourite commercial beer.



I bought a stubbie (fresh) and the first thing I noticed was the lack of "rusty nails" LCPA used to have in the bottles. Which was good.

Tasted a lot like PoR for bittering and Citra/Cascade for flavour. Still one of the nicest APAs in Oz, but the recipe has definately changed.


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## brendanos (5/11/12)

IMHO if you get bad LCPA the most likely culprit is poor handling/storage. The brewery might even like to know (especially if it's from a chain store/pub) so they can help get it to you fresher and in better condition next time.

Nick JD - They lost the "rusty nails" years ago when they switched to reverse osmosis filtration of their liquor.


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## bum (5/11/12)

brendanos said:


> They lost the "rusty nails" years ago when they switched to reverse osmosis filtration of their liquor.


Pig's arse they did. I was away with the missus a couple months back and this was the "best" offering available at the chain supermarket where we were. Still the same metallic beer it has always been in my experience.


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## tricache (5/11/12)

brendanos said:


> IMHO if you get bad LCPA the most likely culprit is poor handling/storage. The brewery might even like to know (especially if it's from a chain store/pub) so they can help get it to you fresher and in better condition next time.



I totally agree...the best beer my local has is LCPA (bottled) but everytime I get it it seems to taste a little different (good, bad & ugly)


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## Spiesy (5/11/12)

bum said:


> Pig's arse they did. I was away with the missus a couple months back and this was the "best" offering available at the chain supermarket where we were. Still the same metallic beer it has always been in my experience.


Are you sure LC's is to blame for the metallic taste? Surely it can't be the brewery when I've noticed the same metallic taste in beer from many breweries, including but not limited to: LC's, Cooper's, Jame Squire's, Young's (UK), Fat Yak etc.

Surely, surely all these breweries are not at fault?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=32585&st=0


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/11/12)

Yummmm rusty nails. Cant say I have tasted "that" and described it that way before, its a changing drop but usually of good quality technically.
Nev


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## bum (5/11/12)

Spiesy said:


> Are you sure LC's is to blame for the metallic taste? Surely it can't be the brewery when I've noticed the same metallic taste in beer from many breweries, including but not limited to: LC's, Cooper's, Jame Squire's, Young's (UK), Fat Yak etc.
> 
> Surely, surely all these breweries are not at fault?
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=32585&st=0


When every bottle I've had of one beer from one brewery is metallic? Yes, I blame the brewery. I blame the brewery in most instances (as you'll see from my post in the thread you linked).

I don't recall getting any metallic bite from the single batch beers of theirs I've had, nor Rogers, nor their Bright. Every bottle of LCPA has been awful.


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## Spiesy (5/11/12)

rusty nails, yep, a delightful addition to any beer... lol

tbh, only ever had it in bottled beers. It has to be something to do with the bottling process, or storage, imho.


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## malt_shovel (5/11/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yummmm rusty nails. Cant say I have tasted "that" and described it that way before, its a changing drop but usually of good quality technically.
> Nev



Yep I would expect all craft beer to be ever so slightly changing over time as improvements are made.

I wasn't meant to imply that it was badly made or mis-treated, just that it tasted significantly different since I last had it, and that it reminded me of locally made commercial lagers, hence the question mark after POR.

It didn't make me think "rusty nails" either.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/11/12)

malt_shovel said:


> Yep I would expect all craft beer to be ever so slightly changing over time as improvements are made.
> 
> I wasn't meant to imply that it was badly made or mis-treated, just that it tasted significantly different since I last had it, and that it reminded me of locally made commercial lagers, hence the question mark after POR.
> 
> It didn't make me think "rusty nails" either.


I expect that we may get some WA rusty nail brews in our 2012 Case swap. Drink with teeth clenched  

Nev


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## benno1973 (5/11/12)

Spiesy said:


> tbh, only ever had it in bottled beers. It has to be something to do with the bottling process, or storage, imho.



Me too. I haven't ever tasted the metallic taste from the beer on tap. I had always assumed it was something to do with the bottletops they used. But I can't imagine they'd be different to what anyone else used.


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## Spiesy (5/11/12)

bottle caps is certainly the logical choice...


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## mje1980 (5/11/12)

Until you realise that just about every bottle of beer uses the same cap, probably the same supplier even.


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## bum (5/11/12)

And how much time do we think beers spend in contact with the lid - even in transit?

6 parts of bugger all.


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## benno1973 (5/11/12)

And how long do you think the lid spends touching the mouth of the bottle, which is where some people drink their beer from?


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## bum (5/11/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> And how long do you think the lid spends touching the mouth of the bottle, which is where some people drink their beer from?


So I'm tasting metal from my glass by some sort of empathy with other people?

I assure you that I have no such thing.


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## benno1973 (5/11/12)

bum said:


> I assure you that I have no such thing.



And I believe you. But I assume you also pour your beer out through the mouth of the bottle, unless you're doing something less conventional?


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## mje1980 (5/11/12)

Wait a minute, so despite drinking ( im sure ) many many other beers out of bottles, you still think its the bottle caps on one particular type of beer causing some kind of metallic flavour?. And really, the plastic seal would actually be in contact with the bottle, no?


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## /// (5/11/12)

mje1980 said:


> Until you realise that just about every bottle of beer uses the same cap, probably the same supplier even.



Yep, there is only sole supply for all pro and home brewers in Australia unless you import direct from China. its Gualia Closures, Bob. He is a tops fella. All the same caps just some are different colours and printed.

Also, my father is a chem engineer and part of the team that designed the polymer for the caps in the 60's at ICI. Same goes into all drink bottles ... so every bottle you drink would be metallic I guess ...

Only been about 2 weeks since the takeover was finalised, that beer would not even be in the logistics chain. Kirin also has the astute knowledge the business is making $$'s and with that they will leave the thing well alone. Same applied when they took the varying levels of interest in Lion Nathan. I know quite a few Senior Lion fellas due to work and consulting, apart from a trip once every 2 years and some reporting, Kirin do not meddle in the local affairs. 

Scotty


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## benno1973 (5/11/12)

mje1980 said:


> Wait a minute, so despite drinking ( im sure ) many many other beers out of bottles, you still think its the bottle caps on one particular type of beer causing some kind of metallic flavour?. And really, the plastic seal would actually be in contact with the bottle, no?



The plastic seal is generally in contact with the bottle top, but plastic seals degrade, caps rust, etc. I had no idea how many bottle top manufacturers there were out there, I assumed there were a few, some better than others. But as you and /// say there is only one manufacturer, then I'd have to agree that it's likely not the bottle top. 

I do get the metallic taste from some other beers in bottles. Cleaning the rim of the bottle gets rid of that taste, so I'd certainly say that bottle tops can contribute some metallic flavour, but more likely if it's a beer that's travelled further or been handled worse.


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## Nick JD (5/11/12)

Could it be something to do with being bottle conditioned (LCPA is, isn't it?). Like the bottles are cycled through warm and cool phases resulting in rusty caps... 

I have experienced many rusty nails beers when I was living in the Philippenes - San Miguel lagers in a sketchy fridge - each time they warmed up they got rustier with the condensation.


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## mfeighan (5/11/12)

It must be the storage and handling had a sixer on the weekend, tasted as good as it ever does. Must be a downside of living in those eastern states. On tap its bloody good too


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## sinkas (5/11/12)

NewtownClown said:


> Matilda Bay has been owned by CUB for 12+ years. I don't feel _they_ have been "tainted" in any way.



your 'aving a larf mate


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## /// (5/11/12)

... or it could be your palate is sensitive to metallic profile. I can pick sour profiles from Lacto infections at 100 paces, give me sulphur and I struggle. Everyone has a sensitivity and a blind spot.


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## bignath (5/11/12)

/// said:


> ... or it could be your palate is sensitive to metallic profile. I can pick sour profiles from Lacto infections at 100 paces, give me sulphur and I struggle. Everyone has a sensitivity and a blind spot.



I agree.

For example: I usually can't tell if i'm pissed, so i just keep going until it's blindingly obvious.


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## mika (5/11/12)

Never got the 'rust' or 'metallic' in the glass, only when drinking from the bottle (375mL). Wipe the mouth of the bottle and taste disappears. Have put it down to beer trapped under the lid, either not being rinsed properly after filling (have heard this discussed by other breweries), or possibly even residual of what ever cleaner they're using post fill.

The LCPA is pretty much my staple, some weeks it's good, some weeks it's not so good. I'm sure the beer has got a lot drier in recent times (last 18 months or so) and as a result has become a lot easier to hammer down, but lost a little malt edge at the same time. Hopping schedule, who knows, I'm sure I've blown my palate with too much Ruination.


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## Thirsty Boy (5/11/12)

I just want to know why everyone thinks that if a beer starts to taste like an australian macro lager - it might be something to do with POR?

A large proportion, (almost certainly the majority) of them are bittered with pre-isomerised extract, which has had all the hop flavour and aroma components stipped away as part of the manufacturing process and which for the most part, are not made from POR in the first place.

Hate away on the "flavour" all you like - but dont blame POR. Most beers that get drunk in this country have never even been in the same room as a bag of POR hops.


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## Hippy (5/11/12)

mika said:


> Never got the 'rust' or 'metallic' in the glass, only when drinking from the bottle (375mL). Wipe the mouth of the bottle and taste disappears. Have put it down to beer trapped under the lid, either not being rinsed properly after filling (have heard this discussed by other breweries), or possibly even residual of what ever cleaner they're using post fill.
> 
> The LCPA is pretty much my staple, some weeks it's good, some weeks it's not so good. I'm sure the beer has got a lot drier in recent times (last 18 months or so) and as a result has become a lot easier to hammer down, but lost a little malt edge at the same time. Hopping schedule, who knows, I'm sure I've blown my palate with too much Ruination.



I'd have to agree with this. I'm drinking one now and it seems less malty than it used to be and with a little less bitterness to balance it out.


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## argon (5/11/12)

Oh look something has been discussed before...



Alex T said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> At the brewery we have been discussing this and are thinking this could be a combination of things - either beer residue not being rinsed adequately around the crown seal, or some sort of complex oxidation reaction with the hops. We don't see this in the product when we release to the market, but obviously from the comments above this is something that various people pick up from time to time (and yep, unsure of product age, how it was handled, stored, etc, before it finally ended up in your fridge at home).
> 
> ...


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## RdeVjun (5/11/12)

argon said:


> Oh look something has been discussed before...


+1 Where on earth has that darned 'Like' button gone? :icon_cheers:


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## Kai (5/11/12)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I just want to know why everyone thinks that if a beer starts to taste like an australian macro lager - it might be something to do with POR?
> 
> A large proportion, (almost certainly the majority) of them are bittered with pre-isomerised extract, which has had all the hop flavour and aroma components stipped away as part of the manufacturing process and which for the most part, are not made from POR in the first place.
> 
> Hate away on the "flavour" all you like - but dont blame POR. Most beers that get drunk in this country have never even been in the same room as a bag of POR hops.



Said well.

I opened this thread to attest that currently, to the absolute best of my knowledge, the only Pride of Ringwood in existence within the Little Creatures stable is a little homebrew packet from Grain and Grape, waiting to be dry-hopped into a cask of dark ale for the weekend handpump at White Rabbit.


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## malt_shovel (6/11/12)

Kai said:


> Said well.
> 
> I opened this thread to attest that currently, to the absolute best of my knowledge, the only Pride of Ringwood in existence within the Little Creatures stable is a little homebrew packet from Grain and Grape, waiting to be dry-hopped into a cask of dark ale for the weekend handpump at White Rabbit.



For clarification, I take it this from someone who is currently working at the brewery?

CUB website has PoR is used in the following (at least).
- Carlton Black
- Fosters
- Melbourne Bitter
- Crown Lager
- Redback Wheat 

Lots of references to "traditional bittering hops" in some other popular mainstream lagers, which could be a couple of different varieties but given the history of PoR it is a strong candidate. I don't speak for everyone, but that's one compelling reason why I associate PoR with mainstream macro lagers. It as an ingredient in some pretty popular beers. Crown lager is "the highest selling, Australian premium beer" (not really sure what that actually means but I figure they sell a lot of it and I sure drank a fair bit of it). Also I am not a hater of the flavour, just seeing if anyone else noticed a change in the flavour in recent months that made it similar to mainstream, local commercial lagers.


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## Liam_snorkel (6/11/12)

How long do iso hops have to be used for them to be considered as traditional?


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## Snowdog (9/12/12)

You can say I'm nuts in this, but the LCPA I had with dates of 23 Sept & 4 Oct did taste POR'ish, while this latest batch with 1 Nov is tasting more Cascady.


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## jammer (9/12/12)

I'm nuts. There.


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## Nick JD (9/12/12)

Maybe they're fermenting warm with Danish Lager yeast...


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## Rooster13 (17/7/14)

Well have not had a LCPA for some time now, 6 months, making too many of my own real beers . Managed to sample their IPA at the Fremantle brewery today and thought I would follow the theme.
Sampled a LCPA at dinner ( from bottle) and mentioned to the other half the difference now in flavour. Also bought 2 pint bottles, same again. Must admit my palate has leaned more to IPA style but thinking it now if a slightly different beer since going to a multi national.....


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## Spiesy (17/7/14)

Many breweries have to change their recipe and process in accordance to the seasonal change in raw materials from year to year, to try to maintain the same flavour profile. I believe this includes Creatures. 

I remember buying Amarillo three or four seasons ago, amazing. Has never been the same since. 

Just like grapes will have different character from year to year, so will hops. Particularly noticeable in hop forward beers. 

I still rate LC's as really good, accessible craft beer. I drop in there every time when in Freo. And I'd never turn my nose up at a LC's Pale, IPA or Rogers, unless it wasn't treated right. 

Horses for courses, of course.


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## Snowdog (11/8/14)

Since I'm on a tight budget, I've been drinking more LCPA of late. Have to say there is currently a noticeable difference between the Freo and Geelong bottles. The Freos are clear and taste a bit weak, while the Geelongs are the old-school cloudy and full of flavour. The dates on both are early/mid 2015. Have to say I've been opting for 4 Pines pale when I see Freo bottles in stock.


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## wareemba (27/11/14)

hi!

sorry, but what is 'POR'?


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## probablynathan (27/11/14)

POR = Pride of Ringwood


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## wareemba (27/11/14)

ohhh, hops? thanks!!


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## neal32 (18/4/15)

Sampled this last night objectively against a SNPA and 2 of my APA's. To say this beer has gone downhill is an understatement. Had zero aroma, clarity was non existent, the flavour was of rusted nails and slightly of offensive bitterness (Maybe PoR). It was absolutely shithouse and not worth the price, any price.

Am I alone in my thinking? LCPA was the beer that got me into craft beer several years ago. I remember the floral aroma, impressive malt backbone and firm biterness. Literally a life changing beer. Now I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.


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## droid (18/4/15)

Wow! Lcpa has always been my go to beer. Will have to try some again.


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## Yob (18/4/15)

Just like JS, I don't bother any more, I'll willingly give my coin to feral or liberty


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## neal32 (18/4/15)

It even looks bad. Mine are the two on the left and the SNPA is on the right. If they want consumers to pay a premium for the beer, the same price as a Sierra Nevada or Ballast Point beer, it should be up to that standard.


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## Bridges (18/4/15)

Has it coming from geelong or freo made a difference? I haven't purchased any for a fair while but look at the label maybe the newer geelong brewery still have some kinks to iron out...


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## Yob (18/4/15)

If that's the case, it shouldn't be going to market.


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## Bridges (18/4/15)

Yob said:


> If that's the case, it shouldn't be going to market.


Agree totally. Just searching for a reason why a once great product could go to crap.


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## Yob (18/4/15)

Accounts


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## JDW81 (18/4/15)

Bridges said:


> Has it coming from geelong or freo made a difference? I haven't purchased any for a fair while but look at the label maybe the newer geelong brewery still have some kinks to iron out...


Most of their products hitting the east coast come from the geelong brewery AFAIK.


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## droid (18/4/15)

It's on sale here (edit East gippsland) today 2 ctns for $58 ea, cheapest I have ever seen it. But I wasn't going to bother tasting one at $5 for a stubby but in the interests of research and all that I bought a bridge road pale ale, the lcpa and a john Boston pale ale to blind taste test tonight along with one of my apa's, course I'll pick my apa 

I wondered about the water profile when I first heard they (LC's) would also be in geelong - as from memory Perth water is quite hard. It is a bit shit that breweries will also brew/bottle under licence but I would bet some don't bother altering their water profile to suit

Might be way off track just random thoughts


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## neal32 (18/4/15)

The bottle was from Geelong. The alcohol was 5.2%, I remember it being 5.7%.

It's not even me being a snob, two other people that where tasting with me agreed. In fact when breweries release beer like this they shoot themselves in the foot, if I were to recommend LCPA now, a discerning drinker will say, this tastes the same as my other beer, why would I pay more to drink it? And he would be right, there is no reason to and now the person recommending a 'craft' beer looks like a pompous dickhead. 

Unfortunately this is the state of most craft beer in Australia, maybe due to excise or other reasons but having drank the beers in California, there is a big discrepancy in quality and no reason I can think for it really.


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## jc64 (18/4/15)

LCPA from Geelong is tasting fine to me. SNPA is my other go to Pale Ale and I'll happily still go between both. Of course I still like to drink my own when I can.


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## droid (18/4/15)

the beechworth has that dry hopped aroma and late hops in the mouth but the lcpa was bland with no aroma at all - it was still bitter but that is not the beer I fell in love with all those years ago back in WA, there is no way you could serve that to someone and say it is styled on an APA

the only other thing that might be worth trying is taking some over to WA next week when I go and compare to the local but who cares really

to me it seems the late hop additions and dry hop additions have been scaled back if not withdrawn altogether

RIP LCPA (at this household)

edit and the John Boston was a nice fresh tasting beer for a 4.2, more aroma than the lcpa and I would have it over coopers green


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## manticle (18/4/15)

Given up on james squire (once enjoyed golden, porter, ipa) but still happily down a sixer of lc pale regularly. Hightail and lc are my two go to commercial sessionables after an evening of futsal, etc.


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## droid (18/4/15)

there seems to be a common thing in the js line that I don't like but am not sure what it is, some sort of weird malt taste


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## technobabble66 (18/4/15)

Try the JS Hop Thief. A clear cut above their other offerings


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## droid (19/4/15)

around the time alpha+ came out I got into the hop fwd style and enjoyed the js hop theif and the stories behind their beers in general. at some point there wa a js bar in Melbourne somewhere and I had the golden ale and (edit) over time their whole line up) and that's where I started tasting a flavour like a malt sort of flavour that didn't suit my palate. Maybe I gave up on hop thief at the time.

I see hop theif label States that it changes depending on seasonal availability of ingredients which is fair enough. I can understand what spiesy is saying in that sometimes Brewerie are stuck with what the seasons produce but could you call a beer the same with different flavour and aroma hops added? Maybe they could take a nod from AHB Brewers for example and call it their house apa 

I dunno it's interesting that the lcpa has changed and for a solid year I bought a ctn a week, in my mind I feel the current offering is not the same

Going to email the company in geelong and freo to see what they have to say

Btw bought the furphy a while ago and it sat in my pantry - very ordinary tho the chick said (at LC's in geelong) it was their best seller, maybe lcpa has been toned down to be accepted by the masses

Just my opinion


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## Spiesy (19/4/15)

Neal, any idea on the freshness of the LCPA that you drank? Where was it purchased from?

I think it had changed over the years, sure, but I also know my palette has changed a shit-tonne. I remember struggling to put down a bottle of LCPA years back as it was so bitter - although on tap it was more balanced. Obviously my hop tolerance and appreciation has changed quite a bit over the years.


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## Bridges (19/4/15)

droid said:


> maybe lcpa has been toned down to be accepted by the masses


I find this ^^^ confusing and disappointing. It's not like they were struggling to move the stuff as it was, and if it's an economic decision to save money on hops surely they know they are shooting themselves in the foot. I don't buy it often but last time I did I really enjoyed it. Good excuse to buy some more I guess.


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## droid (19/4/15)

I sent LC's a message today asking about all this so yeah, still gonna run some over the border to compare anywho

if you like it drink it eh


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## TheWiggman (19/4/15)

I agree with Spiesy, when I was a VB and Cold fan back in the days of yore I really had no idea what a pale ale tasted like. Little Creatures was recommended and I splurged, and was completely blown away. Best beer I'd ever had. Through the years I've developed a bit of snobbery in my home brewing obsession/adventures and my tastes and tolerances have changed considerably. My tolerance for bitterness and hoppiness gets higher and higher and I've no doubt if I picked up the same glass I did 9 years ago, it would probably taste different. 
Today I love stouts, 10 years ago I didn't. Stouts are still stouts. Tastes change and I think old stuff will always taste different to new stuff. Except VB, that still tastes the same to me. I think it's a challenge that brewers will always face, especially in the 'botique' market. Not saying people are wrong, maybe it has changed, but to me it's still a decent beer.


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## neal32 (19/4/15)

Spiesy said:


> Neal, any idea on the freshness of the LCPA that you drank? Where was it purchased from?
> 
> I think it had changed over the years, sure, but I also know my palette has changed a shit-tonne. I remember struggling to put down a bottle of LCPA years back as it was so bitter - although on tap it was more balanced. Obviously my hop tolerance and appreciation has changed quite a bit over the years.


It was from the Geelong brewery, the date was best before Oct from memory and was purchased in the Gold Coast.

Valid points about tastes and tolerance changing, but the SNPA I drank doesn't taste that different, nor has it ever and to me that is true quality right there. These days it tastes less hoppy and I taste more caramel, but it's still a good beer, even after travelling half way across the world. LCPA had to travel 2 states and I wouldn't say the one I drank was a good beer, sadly not even an average one. In fact if one of my beers turned out like that, I would be disappointed to the point of ditching it......and I'm a tightarse. Just my 2c though.

EDIT: I used to be a massive fan of Little Creatures, the brewery in Freo is one of my favourite places and one of the best breweries I've been to in the world. I was the first to get a case of their single batches(They were never mind blowing, I just really liked the brewery and the beers), driving around to bottlo's around freo to get a case.

So not hating on Little Creatures, just disappointed.


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## Spiesy (20/4/15)

neal32 said:


> Valid points about tastes and tolerance changing, but the SNPA I drank doesn't taste that different, nor has it ever and to me that is true quality right there.


That's interesting that you say that, because I won't buy SNPA in Australia - just not worth the extra money for me. To drink it in the USA, on tap in particular, is where it's at. Completely understand that not everybody can do that, it's just not possible most of the time, but for hop-forward beers I try to shop locally for fresh product... even my hoppy APA's change after a month or so in the keg, a lot of the aroma just disappears.


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## buckerooni (20/4/15)

I give the SNPA cans a go but not the bottles. 

LCPA is one of my go-to beers but with Thunder Road Brewery just down the tracks from me and it's support of the Merri Mashers brew club they might become my new go-to for fresh local beer.


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## JB (20/4/15)

neal32 said:


> Sampled this last night objectively against a SNPA and 2 of my APA's. To say this beer has gone downhill is an understatement. Had zero aroma, clarity was non existent, the flavour was of rusted nails and slightly of offensive bitterness (Maybe PoR). It was absolutely shithouse and not worth the price, any price.
> 
> Am I alone in my thinking? LCPA was the beer that got me into craft beer several years ago. I remember the floral aroma, impressive malt backbone and firm biterness. Literally a life changing beer. Now I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.


I'm sadly in the same boat Neal


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## Mardoo (20/4/15)

LCPA was rich, hoppy, almost like barleyfruit juice. It's just not the same anymore. I'm someone who first had it with a well-established taste for craft beer, and it compared to many of the best commercial PA's I'd had. No more.


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## pist (20/4/15)

Mardoo said:


> LCPA was rich, hoppy, almost like barleyfruit juice. It's just not the same anymore. I'm someone who first had it with a well-established taste for craft beer, and it compared to many of the best commercial PA's I'd had. No more.


Have to agree with you mardoo. LCPA was ALOT more hoppy than it is now. Used to really enjoy it. Seems to have suffered the same fate as Fat Yak when CUB took over matildas bay (going cheap on ingredients)


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## manticle (20/4/15)

Fat yak is like orange juice with a hop flower waved over it from a neighbouring country.


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## droid (21/4/15)

Here is the response from LC's

I was a bit rude I spose so excuse me

Hi Jon

Thanks for your email.

I passed this onto our head brewer in Fremantle Russell Gosling and this is the response he has sent through;

LCPA has never been a dry hopped beer. 

We use leaf/cone hops in our hopback to capture all those lovely aromatics. The hopback is situated post whirlpool pre paraflow: en route to FV then. In 2008 when we installed our new Brewhouse we also installed a new hopback (the old one is at the WR Brewery in Healesville), at this point the mass of leaf hops actually increased in order to match/achieve the desired hop character in the Beer!

The only change is the makeup of the hop grist – not the varieties per say – but the hemispheres. We originally only used US hops – way back in the day – but found that the leaf hops peaked after say 4 -5 months and then quickly deteriorated (oxidised). So we worked with HPA to introduce AUS/(TAS) Cascade into our mix – this meant that we reduced our exposure to deteriorating hops and benefited from twin peaks. We are presently targeting a 50:50 split of US/ANZ hops for this reason.

We still use Cascade and Chinook and have also introduced that lovely AUS hop Ella into the mix – we also purchase a “seasoning hop”, which we add to the Whirlpool (as T90s) and this is generally what we can get hold of at the time (which ain’t easy given the current demand for hops!); recent hops have been Vic Secret and Simcoe for example.

Most APAs on the market are dry-hopped – this means, on one hand, that they have bigger aroma yes, but on the other hand, they have a distinct harsh, green/pellety astringency (less refinement/finesse) – Brewing is a process of compromises and each Brewer determines where they are prepared to compromise. We at LC reckon we make the best Beer can by adhering to our 3 core beliefs: use of leaf hops (hopback instead of dry hopping), non-pasteurisation of our Beers and bottle conditioning. Well at least for our Pale Ale. Our IPA is most definitely dry hopped (with lots of Amarillo) – it also has a big hit of leaf hop in the hopback too.

Water – both Fremantle and Geelong use towns mains water that is then RO treated – salts (sulphate/chloride) added back into the process. This is matched.

So yes way, the Pale has the same amount of hops - I wonder however if the perception has altered due to greater exposure of hoppy beers?

I hope this answers your questions.

Cheers


Lorna Stephen
Brand Manager
0427 564 159



-----Original Message-----
From: Jon tew
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2015 12:08 PM
To: Lion BSW Australia
Subject: Enquiry: General Enquiries

A new enquiry has been received:

Subject: General Enquiries
Name: Jon Tew
Email: **
Telephone: **
----------------------------------------
hi there, always been a fan of lcpa but must say that it is not the same anymore. There is no way lcpa has the same amount of late and dry hops. I used to buy a ctn of lcpa a week ( in country vic) and then at some point maybe through all grain brewing myself I stopped as I'm making apa's on a constant basis

Is the beer the same back in Perth? I moved to vic 10 years ago from Guildford where quite often we had lcpa on tap before the hotel burned down. I was buying lcpa in vic before geelong opened and I'm wondering if the water Is different (which is harder I think in wa)

Or is it just a case of having to use different hops? If so does lcpa still have the same amount of late and dry-hopping? I can't pick up any aroma and very little late hop flavour

Hoping you don't mind if your response is posted on Aussie home brewer as there is a discussion going on about it now

Cheers yours however saddened

Jonny tew


----------------------------------------


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## Yob (21/4/15)

So *they're saying they should be the same.. Take him a bottle when you go over, do a side by side with him 

*ed


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## 1974Alby (21/4/15)

or her.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/4/15)

the hop profile has always been a little different but I've certainly never had a dud, I reckon it's all in your head.


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## neal32 (21/4/15)

Seems like a pretty generic response. Fair enough to as they're too big enough to care about the odd person that detects changes in quality. They have established their brand and in todays world branding is far more important then the end product. I won't be buying anymore but for them, that's 0.000001% of their sales.


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## neal32 (21/4/15)

Liam_snorkel said:


> the hop profile has always been a little different but I've certainly never had a dud, I reckon it's all in your head.


I reckon it's all in your head that you haven't detected changes. The alcohol has gone from 5.7% to 5.2% no? That's tastable and that's got nothing to do with the hops.

Anyways when it comes to taste everyone is different.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/4/15)

When was it 5.7%? I don't remember that.


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## neal32 (21/4/15)

A while back, I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time.


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## Dave70 (21/4/15)

droid said:


> the beechworth has that dry hopped aroma and late hops in the mouth but the lcpa was bland with no aroma at all - it was still bitter but that is not the beer I fell in love with all those years ago back in WA, there is no way you could serve that to someone and say it is styled on an APA
> 
> the only other thing that might be worth trying is taking some over to WA next week when I go and compare to the local but who cares really
> 
> ...


Agreed, and moorish. 
4.2 makes it a mid strength in my book. So its cool to drink half a slab in an afternoon..

LCPA has long been a favorite of mine, but whenever I've had a marginal one, I'd bet my house crook handling was the culprit, not the actual hop profile. 
If I decide to splash out on a carton of anything crafty, and thus pricey, I'll grab a stubby first and see how that goes. Not a perfect system, but if all I'm getting from a single bottle is some slightly bitter crystal and malt, no reason to think multiplying it by 24 (from the same outlet) will yield a better result.


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