# New Brewer - adding hops to cooper ale kit



## chromesphere (26/11/14)

Hi guys,

First post new brewer.

I ordered the coopers beer kit and the abbey blonde kit as well for my first 2 brews, I have been researching a bit and by the sound of it the standard coopers lager that comes with the kit could use a little flavour boost. As excited as I am about making my first brew, drinking 23 litres of ho-hum beer might get a little laborsome lol

I plan to follow the instructions closely but wanted to check a few 'upgrades' with you guys before I go ahead.

The first question: I have bought some yeast (safale S-04) to replace the stock coopers lager yeast as I have heard this can help with the flavour. The coopers lager apparently uses ale yeast, which I believe is what the safale s-04 is also. So I assume this is fine but wanted to check with you guys this yeast is ok to use with the coopers lager LME?

The second question is regarding the hops. I have bought 50g cascade hops which I was thinking of using half of to pep the brew up a bit. I'm not sure which meathod would be the better option, dry hop or boil. The kit requires 1 litre of boiled water added to the liquid malt into the fermenter. The modification I was thinking of was to boil the 1 litre of water in a pot, take off the heat and add the hops for X mins (?), then add the hop tea to the liquid malt in the fermenter as the instructions suggest. So basically I would be replacing the "1 litre of boiled water" from the kettle with "1 litre of hop tea" from the pot, if that makes sense. Do I leave the hops in the pot while it boils or take it off the heat? How long would you suggest? (not a fan of bitter beer, so thinking less time here).

The other alternative would be to dry hop, add the hops in a muslin bag after the fermenting is finished. The cooper instructions suggest bottle as soon as the fermenting has finished (2 days of same hydrometer reading) but I've read if you are dry hopping you should wait until fermenting is finished and then add the hops and extend the time in the fermenter for 7-10 days (for the hops to take effect) and that there is no harm doing this?

Am I on the right track with these two methods and would one be preferable over the other or is it just personal preference? Any advice appreciated.

Might be wishful thinking but really hoping for a successful first brew 

Cheers
CS


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## Feldon (26/11/14)

Welcome Chromesphere.

I would dry hop using just half of the 50g of Cascade you have (usual dose for dry hopping is about 1g hops/litre of beer). If you boil the Cascade you will drive off much of the flavour/aroma. Same will happen if you add it too early in the ferment - the CO2 generated during vigorous early fermentation will strip the Cascade hop character from the beer.

The S-O4 yeast is a good reliable yeast and probably much better than the yeast supplied under the lid of the tin. If it were me I would use US-05. Maybe try it next time.

Good luck with your first brew.


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## poppa joe (26/11/14)

Dont follow the instructions....throw them away..
You have to keep Temperatures down from what they tell you..
Read more and learn here..
PJ



chromesphere said:


> I plan to follow the instructions closely but wanted to check a few 'upgrades' with you guys before I go ahead.
> 
> 
> 
> CS


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## chromesphere (26/11/14)

Thanks for the responses guys! I will try what you said Feldon! (dry hop)

I agree Poppa! I think the instructions say ferment at up to 30 degrees!!


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## Bomber Watson (26/11/14)

If you can, with the safale keep it around 17-18.

15 grms of cascade in your litre of beer for 10 minutes, dump it in and use it to mix your kit and crap up as you suggested.

20-25 as a dry hop as suggested.

Probably ditch the dextrose if you were going to use that and use a kilo of be2 or light dry malt as well, or a tin of unhopped malt extract.


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## wynnum1 (27/11/14)

What water do you use.


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## chromesphere (27/11/14)

Hi wynnum1,
I havent started my first brew yet but was thinking of bottled water?


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## brewermp (27/11/14)

chromesphere said:


> Hi wynnum1,
> I havent started my first brew yet but was thinking of bottled water?


If your water is drinkable and doesn't have any off flavours then you are cool. What I do normally is boil water a day before. The full 23 litres. Then boil 4 litres the next day. So that gives me clean water hot and cold to clean / sterilise with. The you don't have to worry about bottled water. I guess it's all comes up to how much effort you wanna put in.


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## chromesphere (28/11/14)

Well, it would be one less thing to buy so im all for that! Our water is pretty drinkable. I have a small water filter, but I think that would take about a week to filter 23 litres


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## yum beer (28/11/14)

No need to muck about with Melbourne water, use it straight from the tap.

If you want a lager, you won't get one with Ale yeast and IMO the cascade is way the wrong hop for this brew. 
If you are going to use it I would not go to the levels being suggested.
You say you don't like too much bitterness, which means you aren't going to wan't a big whack of hop....yet, give it time.
I would be more inclined to steep 10 gm of cascade for 10 minutes and add that to your kit and no more. 1 kg of dry malt no dextrose.
Brew at high teens and let sit 5 days after stable SG before bottling. Leave bottles 6 weeks then give em a go.

Oh, keep reading and learning.


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## chromesphere (28/11/14)

Hi Yum, thanks for the info!

Yeah look to be honest, I have no idea about flavour profiles whatsoever! (part of the fun of learning ). I pretty much just checked off a list without much regard to how these will interact, I have no idea what taste they impart on the final brew!

I've replaced the yeast with the s-04 ale yeast as I think I read the lager kit comes with ale yeast in the lid of the can? Does this mean im making an ale?

The coopers beer kit comes with BE1, which contains dextrose. I was going to use this, should I get be2 instead? I have absolutely no idea what role dextrose and maltodexrin has in the brewing process at all.

Oh yeah, I also read something about steeping hops having more bittering then dry hopping? That might be open to opinion I guess but I see the general consensus is less hops then I originally intended so I will definitely do that.

Cheers!
CS


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## wynnum1 (28/11/14)

Melbourne may be OK but i used Brisbane tap water when water tank ran dry have read about chloramine and that boiling may not remove and that Camden tablet or vitamin C ascorbic acid to neutralist. The brew i made with tap water was harsh.


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## droid (28/11/14)

welcome along mate

the only reason I can think of as to why coopers do a lager in their start up packs is because lager is more well known, consumed more? lager is no doubt more difficult, especially to hide off flavours as it is more one dimensional, so why it is in a start up brew is arguable, it isn't as tolerant imho. maybe coopers is trying to appeal to the palate of neutral ground when marketing the start up kit

anyway it is what it is and you have your gear already, cascade is used in some lagers but is used more widely in pale ales, india pale ales, west coast etc, but yes it is used in some lagers, it says so on wiki...lol

if you stick to lagers in the future try saaz or silvia or some kind of noble hop, personal taste tho, when I think of lager hops I think of Pilsner Urquell, Grolsch, Heineken, Steinlager, even coopers red reminds me of a strong noble hop - who knows it is an interpretive thang

if you don't like bitter then dry hopping imparts the least amount of bitterness and obviously the IBU's (the measurement of bitterness in beer) will be lower, a low Aplha Acid number on the hop pack is what you should stick to or in other words Aroma Hops, lagers aren't known for big flavour, yes they are out there and a black lager from the feral brewery in WA knocked my dick right into the dirt it was fantastic! but imho lager is more of a quaffing beer (ozzie ozzie ozzie) hence coopers start up kit - "ooh yeah yeah lager, good good"

if I was in your shoes, I would use the yeast you bought, i'd buy some Light Dry Malt Extract one brew = 1kg. you can go 50/50 with your enhancer/sugar that you have and dry hop after primary fermentation when you are ready to bottle put in 1gm per liter leave it for 3 days then filter it out and bottle - do you have a bottling bucket or another fermenter? will you bulk prime the batch? if so then filtering into the bottling bucket and bulk priming can be done at the same time. you can prime (carbonate) your beer with some of that Light Dry Malt which will help with your head retention, it is somewhere around 1 and 1/4 cups of Light Dry Malt versus 3/4 cup of white sugar for priming for 23ltrs going on a vague memory

the reason for banging on about the above is if you cant move the beer into another vessel, a slightly smaller dose of hops in the hot water at the start is the better option ~ really your only option but leaving a lager in the one keg until bottling is going to be risky (I keep saying lager but it's not : p)

yeast - I did a little creatures kit once and its was a pilsner with a safale yeast - yes it becomes an ale because the yeast likes to operate in a different environment

consider for the near future - if you cant control the temperature doing a lager with a proper lager yeast, switch to ales during summer they like to run warm, they can be fruiter but they don't have to be bitter, cough cough

find a beer you really like, look for a recipe and all the best to you and your upcoming beer belly - yay!


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## chromesphere (28/11/14)

Thanks for the detailed response Droid and the welcome. I understand for the most part! I think the definition of beer types is something I will need to research as well as im a beer drinker of course but honestly until now, don't know the difference between them all. Part of the appeal of this hobby as I do like to learn new things!

Unforunately as im very green on the beer brewing scene I only have 1 FV so I will have to steep I guess. I have some finings as well but I ..should.. be able to get hold of a fridge so might cold crash instead.

I'm going to attempt tto keep this first brew simple as there is a lot to absorb and I feel if I mess around TOO much, I might have a failed batch which could be worse then a beer without character


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## droid (28/11/14)

the mrs is away...that was a bit of a rant

simple is good innit? i'm going back to simple, it is easy to overdo things when the mad scientist puts the beer lab-coat on eh


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## GNU (29/11/14)

My 2 cents

Go to a bottle shop and buy a couple of mixed six packs to see what you like the taste of. Then have search up some clone recipes. This will give you an idea of what hops, ibu levels you enjoy. 

The coopers website has some pretty basic recipes which I've enjoyed. Just remember to buy a different yeast. Us-05 is my ale yeast of choice.


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## chromesphere (29/11/14)

Thanks gnu makes sense to me! I have no complaints against that sort of research 
I will try us05 yeast next seems like its used more commonly then s04


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## yum beer (30/11/14)

Hey chromo, fair chance the yeast in the tin is US-05 anyway, its just a piss poor amount, you really want a larger packet, or 2 packs.
If Cascade is all you have then you can use it, it will add some flavour but is not particularly to style.
If you some way of controllingthe temp that will certainly help, you said you can cold crash in a fridge so I assume you could use it to ferment. Use a time controller to switch on and off until you can get a temp controller..(first big improvement to your brews).
May I suggest:

Coopers Lager
1 box BE1
1 box Dry Malt
*hold back 2 litres of initial water, brng toi a boil, turn of heat, add 15gm cascade for 10 minutes, add the whole pot(hops and all) to your brew day 5 or when SG stable 2 days..
Let sit 3 days and bottle.
Prime with 1 1/2 carb drops per bottle(750ml). Get another vessel for your next batch so you can bulk prime(easier and as many bottles in the fridge as SWMBO will allow and leave for a while. I know its your first brew and you will drink them straight away but take note of the difference in tatste as they age...keep 4 botlles to try a month apart each to see the improvement.
Get your 2nd batch going as soon as you can after this one to get a stockpile happening.....continual brewing(dependant on consumption) will allow you to leave your brews to aged properly inthe bottle before your ripping into them, as I said at least 6 weeks, 3-6 months is better if you can keep them out of the heat. Dedicated conditioning fridge is good for this but not praqctical for everyone.
See about the slippery slope.
Anyway mate good luck and happy brewing.


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## Barge (30/11/14)

My advice would be to boil 10g of hops in about 3L of water and 500g of dry malt extract for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes put the lid on the pot and place it into a sink full of ice cold water to cool down. You want to make sure that no nasties get in so keep the lid on and everything else out. When it's cooled down add to the fermenter (dump it in hops and all) with other fermentables and make up to 23L. 

You want to mimimise your process because each step introduces a risk of infection and IMO, as a new brewer, sanitation is the first aspect you need to get a handle on.


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## chromesphere (30/11/14)

Thanks for the info guys and your time. Im hoping in the next couple of weeks we will be back in our house (renovating) so I will go through the suggestions and pick which I think works for my first batch. I like your suggestion yum beer!

I agree barge, simplicity at this point is important  im going to try to be as hospital clean as I can, successon first attempt would be great for enthusiasm


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