# Base malts for new AG BIABer



## BrockHops (7/7/17)

G'day,
Just slowly gearing myself up to BIAB.
I've been kit/extract brewing using spec grains and hops for a few years and ready for a slide down the slippery slope..
My question is what are the staple grains to keep in stock?
Mainly brewing Pales, stouts, keen to knock up some Germans, Helles/ Dunkels.
I'm also based in Mildura (Northwest Victoria) so freight is a killer

Cheers,
Brock


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## manticle (7/7/17)

Sounds like you need a good quality pale ale malt (something like gladfields, simpsons maris or golden promise, or perle) and a good lager or pilsner malt (again gladfields, weyermann, best or dingemans).
Get in on a bulk buy or make friends with a local like mayor of mildura (member on this forum).


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## MHB (7/7/17)

Another option being to buy some predesigned recipes, that way you get to try lots of different styles of beer made with different types of grain.
Do that for a while, when you have worked out what you like and enjoy making, you could decide what to to stock at home based on your own experience.
A good home brew shop should have a way better range of Malt, Hops and Yeast than most of us can afford to stock, they should also have a better mill and probably better scales... they should also be turning the stock over faster so its fresher.
In my experience you should get better consistency and yield, yes you would pay a little more per recipe but don't have to invest in scales or a mill. You would have to make a hell of a lot of beer to make up the difference.
Mark


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## captain crumpet (7/7/17)

Depends how deep your pockets go


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (7/7/17)

Love Bairds Perle but haven't been able to get it. Their Pale is great and flexible. I even mimicked a lighter malt with it in a saison by having 20% of the base grist as rice.

Maris otter is the other.


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

My pockets are dictated by the budget set my the minister of fun and finance, so a little bit per fortnight.
I had seen the pre packaged recipe kits, I have a mill and some ok kitchen scales.
I'd be keen on a Melbourne Bulk Buy at some stage as I have a mate who travels back n forth every fortnight.
Thanks chaps


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## Jack of all biers (7/7/17)

BrockHops said:


> My pockets are dictated by the budget set my the minister of fun and finance, so a little bit per fortnight.
> I had seen the pre packaged recipe kits, I have a mill and some ok kitchen scales.
> I'd be keen on a Melbourne Bulk Buy at some stage as I have a mate who travels back n forth every fortnight.
> Thanks chaps



If that's your go, then you're dictated by how much you brew, how much you can buy and how much you can store. Get a good quality ale malt for your English styles (as per manticle's advise) and a pils for helles and Munich II for the dunkels. 

The 25kg bags will be circa $80-85 retail and circa $60 bulk buy. Storage and brew volume capacity are to taken into account in addition to budget. You'll need a dry place safe from vermin and preferably out of sight of 'the minister of finance' so as not to be reminded of how it's taking a long time to use/move the bags. A free fridge that's no longer working is able to do all those things. If you can prepare all of those prior to, then smoother sailing will be found. I didn't, but my wife is tolerant and loves my beer. 

At $2.40 per kg it is a saving, but just make sure you don't end up losing half a bag to moisture or rats etc.. Bulk hops are easier to store and are an easier way to save initially. Good luck and here's to your new grain store.


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## captain crumpet (7/7/17)

Or you can go Joe White for the cheaper option, and get 3 sacks for the price of 2 imports.


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## Jack of all biers (7/7/17)

captain crumpet said:


> Or you can go Joe White for the cheaper option, and get 3 sacks for the price of 2 imports.



This is a good option for the budget concious, that I forgot about. However, only buy what you can properly store or you waste your coin when the grain goes slack.


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## Bribie G (7/7/17)

My three go to base malts are Barrett Burston pale, Weyermann regular pilsener and any Pom that's avaiable, Maris Otter, Pearl, or Golden Promise.
Nothing wrong with BB - great value and clean. I just did a blonde ale with BB and about a kilo of Weyermann Vienna and it's turned out so Euro it's almost wearing lederhosen. 

By the way troops, it's _Pearl _not _Perle_ (that's a German Hop). The perle comes from a long standing typo on the CraftBrewer site, dunno if they've fixed it yet. 
cf: Rice "Gulls".


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## manticle (7/7/17)

Purll


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## Rocker1986 (7/7/17)

I think the above advice is good, not really anything to add to it. I only keep two base malts at a time and for a few years they've been Fawcett's Maris Otter for all my ales and Wey Bohemian Pilsner for my lagers. I mainly brew Bo Pils, but I also use it in other lager styles when I brew them with excellent results.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (7/7/17)

BB Pale is actually quite good. Not mad in British beers but deals with American, Aussie and even Belgian pales go okay with it. 

Saw truck loads of bags of it outside newstead brewing one day, so obviously they have no problems with it.


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

Nice advice guys, just what I was after, a couple of bags in stock, plus a kilo of this n that.
Now to find the first recipe to get me started too many to choose from.
Got some Dr Rudi and Idaho from brewman the other day, so I'm thinking a pale ale to kick things off


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

captain crumpet said:


> Or you can go Joe White for the cheaper option, and get 3 sacks for the price of 2 imports.


Thanks for the tip


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## captain crumpet (7/7/17)

Id make a smash with the Idaho hop. Which number is it btw?


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## MHB (7/7/17)

BrockHops said:


> Nice advice guys, just what I was after, a couple of bags in stock, plus a kilo of this n that.
> Now to find the first recipe to get me started too many to choose from.
> Got some Dr Rudi and Idaho from brewman the other day, so I'm thinking a pale ale to kick things off


Well if you have registered with Brewman, open BrewBuilder, there are a couple of hundred good well tested recipes in there.
If you ordered your specialty malts hops and yeast, you could get all the ingredients other than the base malts landed pretty cheap.
If you ordered 4-5 packs (- base malt) freight wouldn't be too bad, I think its something like $15 for 5kg and $20 for 10kg to your door, so only a couple of dollars per recipe in delivery.
Just remember to click on the "Got It" button for base malts and any hops you already have.
Mark


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

captain crumpet said:


> Id make a smash with the Idaho hop. Which number is it btw?


A smash is a single hop brew right?
Which number? As in AA?


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

MHB said:


> Well if you have registered with Brewman, open BrewBuilder, there are a couple of hundred good well tested recipes in there.
> If you ordered your specialty malts hops and yeast, you could get all the ingredients other than the base malts landed pretty cheap.
> 
> Mark



Thanks mate, I'll try brew builder
Also got a few kilos of Crystal and choc from brewman dealz, just need some base malts.
Got a mate ,(welding freak) coming over to Tig some S/S sockets into my keggle tomorrow.
All coming together!


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## captain crumpet (7/7/17)

BrockHops said:


> A smash is a single hop brew right?
> Which number? As in AA?



Single malt and single hop. I though i remember there being an idaho 6 and idaho 7 as in different varieties. 

SMaSH brews are great for learning and developing your taste for ingredients.


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

captain crumpet said:


> Single malt and single hop. I though i remember there being an idaho 6 and idaho 7 as in different varieties.
> 
> SMaSH brews are great for learning and developing your taste for ingredients.


Ah gotcha! 
I'll see if the Idaho has a number


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

BrockHops said:


> Ah gotcha!
> I'll see if the Idaho has a number


Idaho 7


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## captain crumpet (7/7/17)

How many grams?


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## BrockHops (7/7/17)

captain crumpet said:


> How many grams?


225
12.8%aa


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## Bonenose (8/7/17)

MHB said:


> Well if you have registered with Brewman, open BrewBuilder, there are a couple of hundred good well tested recipes in there.
> If you ordered your specialty malts hops and yeast, you could get all the ingredients other than the base malts landed pretty cheap.
> If you ordered 4-5 packs (- base malt) freight wouldn't be too bad, I think its something like $15 for 5kg and $20 for 10kg to your door, so only a couple of dollars per recipe in delivery.
> Just remember to click on the "Got It" button for base malts and any hops you already have.
> Mark



Pretty much exactly what I do bang out a few recipes with the brewbuilder keeping it under 10kg then order the base grain as required to cover them. Works well and saves a lot of messing around when ordering and brewing, do spend a lot of time making up recipes on brewbuilder when I'm bored at work however.


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## Rocker1986 (8/7/17)

BrockHops said:


> Nice advice guys, just what I was after, a couple of bags in stock, plus a kilo of this n that.


That's how I've got mine stored. The base malts each sit in their own 60L water container shaped like a fermenter, I have 5-10kg of Munich II in a 10L handy pail from the big green shed, and I usually buy other specialty malts in 2 or 3kg amounts that sit in 5L handy pails. I have about 8 or 9 with various grains in them. It's been built up over time though, I didn't go out and buy 15 different grains straight up. 

It does make things easy on brew days though since I have a mill as well, I just weigh out what I need from the grains and mill it as needed.


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## Bribie G (8/7/17)

Brewbuilder is great. If I lived in the area and didn't have a mill, I'd use it. When I moved to Kyogle and my brew house was still mostly in boxes Steve sent me a Tooheys Old lookalike and it was probably the best dark ale I've made.


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## BrockHops (10/7/17)

So, getting close to brew day.
BIAB in a 50 ltr. Keg
Heated by 3 ring LPG burner.
Available Ingredients;
Maris Otter
Crystal medium
Dr Rudi hops 
Idaho 7 hops
Safale s 04

Tried playing with beersmith but...
Looking to do a SMaSH with probably the dr Rudi, as that seems to me more suited for bittering.
Probably just going for a post boil volume of 23- 25ltrs.
Going to No chill
So looking for someone to knock up a basic recipe


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## Coodgee (10/7/17)

here you go. a very simple American Pale Ale Smash with plenty of late additions and a big dry hop to give you a nice hoppy pale ale. I've set your efficiency at 65% but it might come out a bit stronger/weaker depending on how you go. 65% should be easily achievable. This will give you a 4.8% ABV beer. 

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: BrockHops' First BIAB
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 33.32 l
Post Boil Volume: 27.94 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 21.30 l
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 15.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 44.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
5.25 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 95.5 % 
0.25 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 75 (Bairds) (147. Grain 2 4.5 % 
10.00 g Dr. Rudi [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 11.4 IBUs 
40.00 g Dr. Rudi [11.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 4 27.6 IBUs 
50.00 g Dr. Rudi [11.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 5. Hop 5 5.7 IBUs 
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) Yeast 6 - 
100.00 g Dr. Rudi [11.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 7 0.0 IBUs 



Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
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Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Mash In 67.0 C 60 min


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/7/17)

Assume that Dr Rudi is there only as bittering and you want a cream ale or some single bittering type ale:

5kg Maris Otter
200g Crystal medium

25g Dr Rudi at 40 minutes (which with no chill is effectively 60m) to 25IBU.

s04 will be adequate, I'd go MJ M44.

Mash in at 63 degrees. single infusion. Not sure if you are 'true' BIAB (no sparge) or not, but adjust your volume of water according to what you want to do. I've given up sparging unless I'm trying to push how much I get from the urn. So my volume generally sits around 32L mash in (for 23-25L) at about 69 degrees strike temp which gets you to the 63 for mash temp.


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## BrockHops (10/7/17)

Coodgee said:


> here you go. a very simple American Pale Ale Smash with plenty of late additions and a big dry hop to give you a nice hoppy pale ale. I've set your efficiency at 65% but it might come out a bit stronger/weaker depending on how you go. 65% should be easily achievable. This will give you a 4.8% ABV beer.
> 
> BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
> Recipe: BrockHops' First BIAB
> ...


 Thanks Coodgee
Is that hop schedule good for No chill?
Also I've only ordered 5 kg MO...
Should just drop the OG a touch


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## Coodgee (10/7/17)

oh right no chill... delete the 20 minute addition an just add 10 grams at the start of the boil and 50 grams at flame out. will give you about 46 IBU. which is on the bitter end of the scale. you could remove the 10 grams entirely at the start of the boil to bring it down to 35 IBU. This is assuming the Dr. Rudi is 11% AA which it probably isn't. can you advise? Just go 5kg marris otter and 250g crystal. That will give you a target original gravity of 1.047 in 23 litres for a 4.5% beer.


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## BrockHops (10/7/17)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Assume that Dr Rudi is there only as bittering and you want a cream ale or some single bittering type ale:
> 
> 5kg Maris Otter
> 200g Crystal medium
> ...



Thanks Lord!


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## BrockHops (10/7/17)

Unreal! 
Thanks you blokes


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## Coodgee (10/7/17)

mate no chill BIAB is so easy you will surprise yourself how easy it is and particularly since you are not stressing about hitting any precise numbers. You'll make great beer!


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## BrockHops (10/7/17)

Dr Rudi is 11.3% by the way


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## Bribie G (10/7/17)

Yes, careful with the Dr Rudi, it used to be called Super Alpha (that should be a warning) but it was renamed in honour of the guy who founded some hop institute in NZ way back. Great hop but go easy on the bittering addition.


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## Bonenose (11/7/17)

Have made a couple brews now using Marris Otter and roughly 5% crystal, using this as a base to mess around with hops. Nice and simple and does make good beer.


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## Rocker1986 (11/7/17)

Bonenose said:


> Have made a couple brews now using Marris Otter and roughly 5% crystal, using this as a base to mess around with hops. Nice and simple and does make good beer.


I do the same except add in about 9-10% Munich II as well. It is my standard APA malt bill but has also been an excellent base for trying out new hops on their own.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (11/7/17)

Give the so4 a good start in life, if you grow it in a couple or three liters wort made from dry malt extract it will ferment better and to a lower FG


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## yankinoz (11/7/17)

If I had to choose one base malt for ales, it would be Golden Promise, my second choice in most English ales and first choice in most American ales. I don't get the two-row thing, and at current exchange rates the Briess stuff is very costly. In wheat malt I've had good luck with JW. Their export pils is good too, but my heart belongs to floor-malted Bopils.


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## manticle (11/7/17)

What do you mean 'don't get the two row thing'?


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## yankinoz (11/7/17)

Manticle-

What I mean is I don't understand the recommendation from BJCP and other sources that Ameriican 2-row malt and the like are preferable for American ales. I suppose the idea is to highlight the hops, but even among US craft brewers there's much argument on that count. 

If you go on US home brew sites you find a lot of recipes that call for 2-row and then throw Victory, crystal, dextrin malts, Gambrinus honey malt. That's not exactly highlighting the hops.

I've tried that approach but would rather get balancing malt flavours mainly from the base malt. My favorite APA uses Golden Promise, about 8% Gladfield toffee, and only Mosaic hops. Founders in the US does a very popular AIPA Smash with just GP and Mosaic.


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## manticle (11/7/17)

I always thought that's distinguishing from 6 row because that's easily available there too.


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## Bribie G (11/7/17)

All Australian and UK barleys are two row (unless someone is growing imported six row which I doubt).

I'd guess American two row is about the equivalent of our Joe White and Barrett Burston - as opposed to varieties like GP or MO.


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## MHB (11/7/17)

In brewing terms, the biggest difference between 2 and 6 row malt is the protein content. The protein content of 6-row makes it nearly impossible to get clear beer (haze is inevitable) so they dilute the grist with low protein rice or maize grist (degermed to lower oil and protein).
Fortunately for makers of mega swill, although the yield from 6-row is lower, the higher protein means higher enzyme content, so they can use more cheaper adjunct.
Haven't yet found an American malt that is worth the cost, for the same money UK and German... from a great height and most Australian base malt is as good or better than US equivalent.
Mark


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## BrockHops (11/7/17)

Well , just having a slurp while waiting for my test boil on my keggle.
Brew day tomorrow and I'm not to proud to say I'm a bit excited haha.
Haven't fab'd up a kettle and burner frame yet, so she's balanced on the obligatory bessa bricks.
Cheers for the light reading


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## goatchop41 (11/7/17)

yankinoz said:


> If I had to choose one base malt for ales, it would be Golden Promise, my second choice in most English ales and first choice in most American ales. I don't get the two-row thing, and at current exchange rates the Briess stuff is very costly. In wheat malt I've had good luck with JW. Their export pils is good too, but my heart belongs to floor-malted Bopils.



I think that you're all missing the point of Yankinoz's post...everyone seems to have taken it as a statement about 2 row vs 6 row. His/her second post highlights what he/she was talking about - that it was a statement about not understanding the widespread recommendation and use of a malt that lacks in character, yet then going and adding specialty malts to increase malt/biscuit/caramel flavours. It's pointing out that instead of using 2 row and spec malts, why don't they just use more characterful base malts like MO or GP?


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## manticle (11/7/17)

Not missing the point personally so much as asking for clarification.

Gp is 2 row, mo is 2 row and I'm pretty sure yankinoz knows that too.


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## yankinoz (12/7/17)

I should have clarified my original comment. Trade terminology is confusing on this count. Most malts in world trade are from 2 row barley and are therefore two-row malts, but "two-row" is also an old trade term (mostly but not only in North America) for a lightly kilned malt. It's blander than most other ale malts. Several suppliers in Australia sell the Briess version as "two row." Gladfield offers a similar "Americxan ale malt."


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## captain crumpet (12/7/17)




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## BrockHops (12/7/17)

captain crumpet said:


>


So my thread turned into a train crash or The original topic has been railroaded !
Not to worry, all interesting info, just gotta put the filter on ey?


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