# Biab Draining The Grain



## Amber Fluid (23/10/11)

Yesterday I successfully did my first BIAB and everything went to plan. However, I have just a few questions if I may....

I squeezed the bag pretty much so there was nothing left coming out. I have heard some people just suspend the bag and let it drip drain but I couldn't be bothered waiting this long. Is the general conception here, to squeeze or not to squeeze?

How do you work out your efficiency?
I hit all temps spot on and ended up with my expected SG reading and during the mash only lost .5 degree over the hour.

At what stages during the brew day should one be taking a gravity reading?
I took one reading at the very end as I was filling the cube.

For the record, I brewed inside using a Crown Urn with a concealed element and had no problem at all achieving and maintaining a rolling boil.


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## Yob (23/10/11)

cant help with your questions Bill as Im heading down the 3v road but Id just like to say :beer: and :super: and :beerbang: 

Yob


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## Amber Fluid (23/10/11)

lol, thanks Yob. The day went a little longer than I thought it would have but that was to be expected. I will be more organised due to knowing what to expect next time. Things like having the urn on a timer to heat and milling the grain so it is ready when temps are hit, are just a couple of things that will save time.

I was quite surprised that I had no hiccups and how easy it really is. :icon_chickcheers:


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## Nick JD (23/10/11)

Some people say not to squeeze, but I squeeze the shit out of it. 

Any and all worries about grain misuse and abuse can be nullified in one fell swoop by giving decoction mashing a rip.


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## Lecterfan (23/10/11)

Gday
I use beersmith and tend to take a gravity reading preboil, at the end of the boil and then finally from the fermenter after pitching and aerating. I also have my equipment profile set up in beersmith and it calculates my efficiency into the fermenter. Due to some vicbrew feedback I have reduced my efficiency and now do recipes at %72, have increased the amount of grain I use slightly and am more careful about sparging. I think I have been oversparging...

There are countless threads on squeezing vs no squeezing...

I'll let BIABers answer the rest.


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## Dazza88 (23/10/11)

I squeeze the bag and then run some kettle boiled water thru it, wait to drain and squeeze again (your hands get ouchy this way). Sometime you squeeze bits of grain out if the bag is larger mesh, try to avoid that.

I put 75% efficiency into brewmate and just compare what i get to it says to see how close i was, usually get a little over what brewmate says with a 90 min mash and good squeezing. 

I take gravity with a refractometer (they are great) at preboil and postboil, before it goes into the cube for no chill. To me postboil is the one that counts, but if you dilute with water into the fermenter, lose some of brew in the kettle to trub etc, you need to account for that.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (23/10/11)

I squeeze, but then again, I sparge as well.

I'm prepared to make the extra time investment for those few extra points - rightly or wrongly.

Do as much prep work the night before as possible and get everything out on the bench/workspace sorted. Once grain is mashing, I weight out all hops additions and make sure my sparging vessels are sorted.

However, I'm preparing to go down the ghetto lauter tun line, but alter it to might equipment.

But BIAB rocks - you can get fantastic beer (as I've been doing for the last two years), from so little equipment and you are really, finally, making beer (Rather than diluting goo).

Goomba


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## stux (23/10/11)

I Squeeze the bag and suspend it above my pot for the first few minutes of the boil 

I get about 500ml per KG absorbtion

Take gravity and Volume measurements when the wort starts to boil and when you cut the heat. That way you know the temperature and can correct volume if necessary. 

The start of boil and end of boil efficiencies should be roughly equal if you didn't get a boilover


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## Flash_DG (23/10/11)

i squeeze mine too


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## Bada Bing Brewery (23/10/11)

I'm not a squeezer, but commend those who come out and admit they are <_< 
Cheers
BBB


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## ekul (23/10/11)

I sparge with 4L cold water (Hose sparge) which means i can then squeeze the shit out of the bag because its not hot.

I take gravity readings throughout the boil (and at preboil) so i know where i'm standing re gravity. I have to do this because i do all my water measurements by eye. I really should buy a 5L jug.

Congrats on going AG, you won't go back. I still have some extract brews sitting in the shed, couldn't drink them after my first AG. And my first AG wasn't even that great.


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## Bribie G (23/10/11)

If you have a couple of spare shelves and a $8 Willow Washing Bowl then the BribiePressinator is an option as well:








:icon_cheers:


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## Flash_DG (23/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> If you have a couple of spare shelves and a $8 Willow Washing Bowl then the BribiePressinator is an option as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hah so simple I wish I had thought of that :blink:


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## Hippy (23/10/11)

Sqeezing the bag is definately the go. Just remember to ramp up to mash out temperature over 10 minutes before you hoist, as this helps dissolve the sugars and make the wort a little runnier therebye allowing for more efficient drainage of the bag. There shouldn't be an issue with the bag coming into contact with the element if it is concealed.


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## ianh (23/10/11)

Hi Amber Fluid

Congrats on the first BIAB, wonder if you used the spreadsheet.

I squeeze the bag, had not thought of weighing it like Stux, but hit my volumes consistently.

I decide what I am going to brew, add the water to the urn, whilst it's heating to Strike Temperature, I weigh and add any water treatment, weigh and crush the grains, weigh the hops that way everything is ready.

I measure the water volume (using a steel rule) when filling the urn, start of boil, end of boil and only do an SG when transferring to the cube (refractometer), initially I also did an SG at start of boil but now no longer bother.


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## bcp (23/10/11)

Squeezing the bag is hot and sticky. Better ways to do a better job.

Similar to Bribieg.
I have two plastic buckets that fit inside eachother.

1. Remove colander from urn and toss into bottom of bucket.
2. Place bag on colander in bucket. 
3. Put the other bucket on top and press down. 

The gravity increases significantly with the 'squeezings' added.


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## AdelaideHillsBrewer (23/10/11)

Great work man on your first biab.......will be starting mine very soon......I would love to squeezz.......what do you call it if you squeezz too much????? one shake or two??? You know what people say!


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## felten (23/10/11)

I squeezed when I was starting out as that was the general consensus, but now I try to let gravity do most of the work. I'll Keep the bag dripping above the kettle until it comes to a boil, then remove it to a handy pail and tip the runnings(drippings?) from that into the kettle towards the end of the boil.

Although sometimes I'll get a stuck bag and give it a bit of a twist and a squeeze. I had to beat the wort out of the bag when I made a 45% rye beer, that was brutal.


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## kyleg (23/10/11)

My last brew (3rd BIAB), I squeezed the hell out of the bag, and got almost everything i could out of it, dripped into a bucket, i took a sample of that and took a gravity reading and found that the gravity of the wort i had squeezed was 1.040 after temp correction, and the rest of the wort was about 1.046. So what is the advantage of squeezing the bag? The wort is no more concentrated.. So really i squeezed my arms off for about 20 minutes to gain maybe an extra litre of wort. Doesn't seem worth it to me. From now on i'll just do a quick squeeze and leave it at that.


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## colonel (23/10/11)

Very timely question, I just used my new urn for the first time this morning, worked a treat!

I used a bit of Bribie G's "Pressinator" method, and a bit of the squeeze method.

I put an old fridge shelf straight on top of the urn, as it was coming up to boil, then lowered the bag onto it.

Then, I used an old dinner plate on top, and pushed down, only took about 30 sec's, and no hot drips going down arms.

One question I have though, is how much should I be losing to trub? I stopped draining when the trub started going into the urn tap (I did whirlpool), but still ended up with 2.3 litres left.

Is this normal.

Thanks


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## felten (23/10/11)

colonel said:


> One question I have though, is how much should I be losing to trub? I stopped draining when the trub started going into the urn tap (I did whirlpool), but still ended up with 2.3 litres left.
> 
> Is this normal.
> 
> Thanks


Very normal, I think anything under 3L is doing pretty well. It's one of the cons of BIAB, but it makes up for it in other areas like less liquor lost to grains and no mashtun deadspace.


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## kymba (23/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> If you have a couple of spare shelves and a $8 Willow Washing Bowl then the BribiePressinator is an option as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



bribie can you just put the pressinator on top of the urn and do away with the bowl?


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## Amber Fluid (23/10/11)

Thanks everyone for the replies. Some useful information I will take with me to the next brew day.

I found squeezing quite simple really. I have an electric hoist I put over the urn and that lifts and suspends the bag quite easy. I then slipped on some rubber kitchen gloves (new out of the packet) and squeezed until I could squeeze no more.

With regards to putting the wort into the cube for no chill, I see everyone able to squeeze the cube to expel the air in there. However, I filled the cube right to the very top so was not able to squeeze the cube to get the little bit of air out from the handle. Does this make any difference or should I have only filled the cube close to the top which would enable me to squeeze it without losing anything?

I managed to completely fill the cube to the top and filled a 1.5 liter V8 jar and I still had some left over. So I am now wondering how much volume is in a 20 liter cube? (It is a 20L FWK from Ross)


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## Amber Fluid (23/10/11)

ianh said:


> Hi Amber Fluid
> 
> Congrats on the first BIAB, wonder if you used the spreadsheet.
> 
> ...


Yes mate, I used the spreadsheet. I had a rough idea of water volume etc to use as I had a good mentor (BribieG, thanks). But I still wanted to run it over the spreadsheet for figures etc. I also ran it through BrewMate which wasn't a great deal different. I admit though, I was a bit concerned of the hops and how bitter it was going to be so cut back a little from what the actual recipe suggested. I seem to like IBUs between 20-40 and I was looking at hitting 64.


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## Spork (23/10/11)

Congrats Bill. It is easy isn't it. Sure, perfecting the method could take years, but close enough is what we can expect on the first few brews, and the results should be very tasty.
I don't think anyone answered your Q re: calculating efficiency yet, unless I missed it, so here goes:

I take it you are using BrewMate or similar? This defaults to 70% efficiency IIRC.
So, if you started with the amount of grain and water you told the software you would, and hit the SG (before boil) the software predicted, your efficiency = 70%. If you had a higher OG, your eff. is > %70. If lower, the eff. is < 70%. BrewMate also tells you post boil gravity and volume. If your results differ but pre boil were correct just change "evaporation rate" in the settings until you find the correct one.
It takes a few brews to "dial in" your numbers, and these can change to depending on other factors - crush being one, process another, and I believe making "bigger" beers - ie: more grain, less water, will reduce efficiency.

ps.
One of the best things I have done was to get a measuring jug and a marking pen and mark 2 and 10 litre graduations on the sight tube of my urn. Lets me keep tabs on volume after hoisting the bag, boiling, etc.


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## stux (23/10/11)

ianh said:


> I squeeze the bag, had not thought of weighing it like Stux, but hit my volumes consistently.



It's apparent absorption, which is basically the difference between strike volume and mashout volume (or start of boil) all corrected back to 65C


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## Amber Fluid (24/10/11)

Spork said:


> Congrats Bill. It is easy isn't it. Sure, perfecting the method could take years, but close enough is what we can expect on the first few brews, and the results should be very tasty.
> I don't think anyone answered your Q re: calculating efficiency yet, unless I missed it, so here goes:
> 
> I take it you are using BrewMate or similar? This defaults to 70% efficiency IIRC.
> ...



Thanks Gard, the efficiency calcs is what I was trying to understand. To be honest I am still not 100% sure if I do now but I have a better understanding.

I have actually marked 1 liter increments down the sight tube for ease of seeing the water volume.

I was using Ian's spreadsheet and BrewMate


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## stux (24/10/11)

Efficiency is how much of the potential grain sugar gets into your vessel

So 70% into fermenter/brewhouse means 70% of the sugars in the grain made it to your fermenter

Pretty good really


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## Bribie G (24/10/11)

colonel said:


> Very timely question, I just used my new urn for the first time this morning, worked a treat!
> 
> I used a bit of Bribie G's "Pressinator" method, and a bit of the squeeze method.
> 
> ...


With a bag you don't get a grain bed forming as such, so the first whoosh of wort out of the bag just comes mainly through the sides and you do end up with a lot more gunk in the kettle than with a "filtering" solution such as HERMS or Braumeister. This doesn't affect the quality of the beer so long as you use a good kettle floccer such as BrewBright. However that's why I've gone a step further and use a solid "bag" made from a 20L pail with a false bottom, that enables a true grain bed to form, and the wort gets "herded" through the bed as the solid "bag" is lifted. 
Nothing wrong with standard BIAB so long as you are prepared for a bit more wastage. BIAB = simple and quick but no free lunches 

Edit: in addition, the single biggest improvement you can make to wort recovery rates is not to put hops, including pellets, into the kettle commando style. I was doing that and found that, particularly with the low alpha hops, the bloody things breed in the kettle and turn into masses of mud. I now use a hop sock arrangement, one of these from Ross or another supplier makes a good hop swimming pool, just peg it round the top of the kettle, and allows the hops good circulation, as well as trapping nearly all the vegetable matter, even from pellets.


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## bowie in space (24/10/11)

I hoist the bag after the mash and let it drain into the urn, then run about 6-8L of 78C water from the top of the bag down through all the grain, then squeeze the bag. I then take the gravity reading at pitching time. Using brewmate, I get around 75% efficiency.

Bowie


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## technoicon (24/10/11)

I have done most things when it comes to BIAB, none of which I think make a huge difference. 

I used to squeeze as soon as I hoisted the bag. now I just leave it while I start the boil. then just be for it's ramped up I squeeze what I can out of it. 

I used to mash-out at 70 degree's for 10mins. Find this doesn't really do alot. so i have stopped doing this, still hitting the same gravity figures.

with larger beers to get efficiency I use another urn and move the grain into that pot after the mash, then join the two together. (kind of like a batch sparging)

I have used bags for hops, hated it. I emptied the grain and used the grain bag with a large spoon in it to hold the bag down. this worked ok.
Now I just throw the hops in. stir the wort after the boil is finished (whirlpool). leave for 10min. then pour into my cube. (I also cube hop)

I take a gravity pre boil, then take OG when pitching yeast (if I remember)

For me now it's more about keeping it simple. 

I no-chill, basically what I have been told is that a little air is ok, I've never had the no chill do anything bad to my beer. because the wort is so hot, it should sterilize the cube. i'm sure the air does something to the wort over time, but i only keep them for a couple of weeks max anyway.


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## insane_rosenberg (24/10/11)

Amber Fluid said:


> For the record, I brewed inside using a Crown Urn with a concealed element and had no problem at all achieving and maintaining a rolling boil.



Niether did I... in the beginning!

Make sure that concealed element is nice and bright before each brew :icon_cheers:


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## TroyNZ (24/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> If you have a couple of spare shelves and a $8 Willow Washing Bowl then the BribiePressinator is an option as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cheers for that Bribie, used this method today and it worked a treat. I just did it straight into the pot (had to tie the top of the bag down as low as I could to stop it spreading out too much). I often looked at those trays next to the fridge and wondered if I could do anything with them.


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## QldKev (24/10/11)

I found not to get too caught up on the efficiency numbers, unless you are getting really bad numbers like 50% etc. As long as you hit a consistent efficiency is all that matters, that way you can make a consistent beer and improve on it. If you are getting efficiency all other the place, your beer will follow. Depending on exact efficiencies the difference may only a dollar or two worth of grain. 

On my brew rig I do have a separate sparge vessel (bowl / keg) with a rack in it, but the main reason is I push my kettle volumes to the max so I can't fit any more water in the initial water volume; so I might as well pour the water through the grain first. I tried squeezing the bag, and thought it was more hassle than it is worth. (I get 75% efficiency without doing it). Also I find in the 15 or so minutes the kettle takes to get up to the boil, a lot of the wort has drained by itself. 

I think the main thing is do what you are comfortable doing, and what gets you consistent beer.

QldKev


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## cam89brewer (24/10/11)

bowie in space said:


> I hoist the bag after the mash and let it drain into the urn, then run about 6-8L of 78C water from the top of the bag down through all the grain, then squeeze the bag. I then take the gravity reading at pitching time. Using brewmate, I get around 75% efficiency.
> 
> Bowie



Sorry to be so dumb but how do you actually calculate the efficiency of a mash?


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## stux (24/10/11)

cambrew said:


> Sorry to be so dumb but how do you actually calculate the efficiency of a mash?



This should get you there

Efficiency = GravityPoints * Volume_At_20C/(307 * Grain_Bill_in_KG)

307 is an average LDK for grain, which is a good estimate, ie 80% HWE

So,

5KG of grain, at Start of Boil you have 38.8L and 1.037

38.8L at 100C is about 38.8 / 1.04 at 20C = 37.3L (4% cooling shrinkage)

so, 

37 * 37.3 / (307 * 5)

1391/1535 = 90.6% Into Kettle efficiency

Not bad


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## QldKev (24/10/11)

cambrew said:


> Sorry to be so dumb but how do you actually calculate the efficiency of a mash?





We mash grains to extract the sugars
The Expected Gravity is based on a potential extraction in lab conditions. Known as 100% efficiency, this will give you a given Gravity potential for your recipe. (it's possible to exceed this number)
As home brewers we never gain the full potential extraction of the sugar

Brew house efficiency is basically your SG vs the labs SG

You can measure this with your hydrometer / refractometer / brixometer gravity reading and also the volume, and use the numbers against your recipe potential extraction in a brewing calculator / brewing software to work out the brew house efficiency.

We care about the efficiency as we are trying to brew to a given alcohol level, and also remember in simple terms hops = bitter & malt = sweet, it effects the balance of the beer. If you end up with a lower or higher gravity than expected you should adjust your hop schedule to suit. The problem is you end up with a higher / lower strength beer than expected. If you keep getting different gravities you then don't get a change to tweak the recipe to perfect it for your brewing system and get random quality beers. If you do undershoot the extraction a quick fix is adding a bit of dried malt extract.

Anyone can jag that pefect beer, but a good brewer & brewery will be able to consitently replicate it.

Hope this helps

QldKev

edit: Resource of some grain potentials
http://www.byo.com/resources/grains


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## felten (24/10/11)

This is a great article to help as well. http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Under...ding_Efficiency

Might be a bit steep for a new brewer, took me a few reads before I got it.


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## tavas (24/10/11)

I get 90% mash efficiency using a 2V BIAB setup. I heat all of my water in the urn and mash in an esky at about 2.5l/kg as per a normal mash. After an hour I drain the bag, then dunk sparge in the urn for about 15 mins. Hang the bag and drain while transferring the esky to the urn and start the boil. Bag can drain, then give it a squeeze to finish off. Consistently 90% on beers to about 1.050 SG, 80-85% on beers to 1.065. Haven't bothered going above that.


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## cbet (24/10/11)

tavas said:


> I get 90% mash efficiency using a 2V BIAB setup. I heat all of my water in the urn and mash in an esky at about 2.5l/kg as per a normal mash. After an hour I drain the bag, then dunk sparge in the urn for about 15 mins. Hang the bag and drain while transferring the esky to the urn and start the boil. Bag can drain, then give it a squeeze to finish off. Consistently 90% on beers to about 1.050 SG, 80-85% on beers to 1.065. Haven't bothered going above that.



I think I'll be giving this a go in my next brew. It sounds similar to the method described here but with esky + urn instead of two pots. Ralph claims to get 23L at 1.055 from 4.5kg of grain, which gives him just over 90% efficiency.

When you dunk sparge, do you open up the grain bag and give it a mix at all? Also, is it worth trying to keep a consistent temperature during the dunk sparge? I would have thought it would cool a lot in 15 mins if you do it Ralph's way without a lid.

I've done several BIABs now where I have poured a few litres of 75 degree water through the bag while it drains. I've been getting around 70% each time, which seems a little low compared to what others are reporting.


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## Nick JD (24/10/11)

A mashout step with BIAB is probably the biggest efficiency booster you can do. I reckon it's in the order of 10%. 

Step mashing from a protein rest up to a mashout (with a decoction or two) is the highest efficiency I've ever had. Pretty close, or possibly even over 100%.

But usually I'm between 75 and 80%. Happy with that. Too much buggering around for 75c worth of grain - meh.


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## tavas (24/10/11)

cbet said:


> I think I'll be giving this a go in my next brew. It sounds similar to the method described here but with esky + urn instead of two pots. Ralph claims to get 23L at 1.055 from 4.5kg of grain, which gives him just over 90% efficiency.
> 
> When you dunk sparge, do you open up the grain bag and give it a mix at all? Also, is it worth trying to keep a consistent temperature during the dunk sparge? I would have thought it would cool a lot in 15 mins if you do it Ralph's way without a lid.
> 
> I've done several BIABs now where I have poured a few litres of 75 degree water through the bag while it drains. I've been getting around 70% each time, which seems a little low compared to what others are reporting.




I leave my urn at set temp while doing the main mash. Urn stays at mash in temp so kinda like a mash out, usually 71*C for a 66*C mash. So urn stays at 71*C until I do the dunk sparge. I have a digital controller for it. During the dunk sparge I turn the urn off and open the bag and pump with the potato masher type paint stirrer. Gets a good mix. I don't turn the urn on. To be honest i've never measured temp drop during this part.


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## cam89brewer (24/10/11)

Does any one add water after boil to achieve their desired gravity and volume or is it a bad idea?


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## Spork (24/10/11)

I haven't, but if you had lower volume and higher gravity than you wanted I can't see a problem doing so. Of course you would boil the water first.


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## Deebo (24/10/11)

cambrew said:


> Does any one add water after boil to achieve their desired gravity and volume or is it a bad idea?



Would be better to pour water throught the bag before the boil to get some extra sugars out, adding after will just water the beer down.


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## Phoney (24/10/11)

Spork said:


> I haven't, but if you had lower volume and higher gravity than you wanted I can't see a problem doing so. Of course you would boil the water first.




I do it occasionally if I've over boiled.

I don't see the point in boiling the water first tho. I figure you don't boil water that you add to kits, so why would you for topping up an AG? All that would achieve is making your wort too hot to pitch the yeast into.


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## OneEye (7/11/11)

I put down my 4th AG yesterday. I've been really happy with the way things have turned out and have made some really good beers! Just trying to refine things a little further and one thing thats bugging me at the moment is my efficiency. I seem to only be hitting ~60%. I'm doing BIAB in a 40L urn. Hitting all my temps fine. have tried a 60 and a 90 min mash and have employed the Bribie 'pressinator' method for squeezing all the sweetness out of the bag. What else could i, should I be doing to increase my efficiency? I'm thinking I could remove the grains and put them into a bucket inside a bucket (similiat to Bribies new Bucket in a Urn) as a makeshift Lauter Tun and sparge with some hot water. Could even turn the urn tap on and pour the wort over the grains to clear up the wort? Sound ridiculous?


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## MarkBastard (7/11/11)

How are you measuring your 60%?


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## OneEye (7/11/11)

I use Beersmith. I take measurements (temp corrected) pre and post boil. Have set it up for my equipment also (evaporation rates and such) As a result of the low efficiency I'm obviously always undershooting my SG


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## MarkBastard (7/11/11)

Is it 60% brewhouse efficiency (into fermenter) though? 60% brewhouse efficiency isn't THAT bad. I get between 65 and 70% BIAB stock standard with no sparge or mashout, lots of squeezing.


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## Phoney (7/11/11)

moosebeer said:


> I use Beersmith. I take measurements (temp corrected) pre and post boil. Have set it up for my equipment also (evaporation rates and such) As a result of the low efficiency I'm obviously always undershooting my SG



When you set your batch size - that includes your 2-3L of kettle trub and 1L of fermenter trub. So for a 23L batch, expect to end up with with 19 - 20L in the keg or bottles. If you are ending up with 23L in the bottle/keg, you're really doing a 26L batch and if you only have enough grain for a 23L batch then certainly your efficiency will be around 60%.

It's a trap for young players.


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## technoicon (7/11/11)

what helps my eff. is having a smaller pot with some 75 degree water in it. then i just put the bag into this at mash out. sit for 10 mins. then put this into my kettle.


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## MarkBastard (7/11/11)

phoneyhuh said:


> When you set your batch size - that includes your 2-3L of kettle trub and 1L of fermenter trub. So for a 23L batch, expect to end up with with 19 - 20L in the keg or bottles. If you are ending up with 23L in the bottle/keg, you're really doing a 26L batch and if you only have enough grain for a 23L batch then certainly your efficiency will be around 60%.
> 
> It's a trap for young players.



I'm pretty sure it depends on the way you set BeerSmith up.


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## OneEye (7/11/11)

phoneyhuh said:


> When you set your batch size - that includes your 2-3L of kettle trub and 1L of fermenter trub. So for a 23L batch, expect to end up with with 19 - 20L in the keg or bottles. If you are ending up with 23L in the bottle/keg, you're really doing a 26L batch and if you only have enough grain for a 23L batch then certainly your efficiency will be around 60%.
> 
> It's a trap for young players.




Even though when your hover over that field it says 'The estimated batch size of this recipe, as measured into the fermenter'? I thought Beersmith calculated the losses to trub and accounted for that


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## MarkBastard (7/11/11)

moosebeer said:


> Even though when your hover over that field it says 'The estimated batch size of this recipe, as measured into the fermenter'? I thought Beersmith calculated the losses to trub and accounted for that



Yeah I use mine as fermenter volume.

I tip 20L of beer from my cube into my fermenter then I plug 20L into the batch size on BeerSmith, then adjust the brewhouse efficiency until the measured OG is the same as the estimated OG. That's how I work out my brewhouse efficiency.


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## felten (7/11/11)

I set my batch size in beersmith to the end of boil volume, with trub losses at 0. I find the program still has problems with various outputs tied in with batch size.


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## OneEye (7/11/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Yeah I use mine as fermenter volume.
> 
> I tip 20L of beer from my cube into my fermenter then I plug 20L into the batch size on BeerSmith, then adjust the brewhouse efficiency until the measured OG is the same as the estimated OG. That's how I work out my brewhouse efficiency.




Sounds like a plan... I might try this. Still... gotta love this hobby. Always something new to learn


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## QldKev (7/11/11)

When I do single brews I find the easiest way to up the efficiency is a basic sparge

In the second pic here
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=30483 
I have a tub draining the wort into it. 

What I do now is have a cake rack sitting in the tub, 
Brew the main batch about 4L less vol
dump the bag onto the tub (on top of the cake rack)
open the bag up
pour the 4L litres of sparge water through it (often I just use tap temp water, aka hose sparge)
and add runnings back to main pot.

I hit 75% consistently, and the sparge operation can happen while your main pot is coming up to the boil, so it's not adding time to the brew day.

QldKev


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## stux (7/11/11)

moosebeer said:


> Even though when your hover over that field it says 'The estimated batch size of this recipe, as measured into the fermenter'? I thought Beersmith calculated the losses to trub and accounted for that



BeerSmith batchsize is volume into fermenter so account for chiller and kettle losses, but not fermenter losses.

likewise brewhouse efficiency in beersmith is based on the batchsize into fermenter and og

65-75% would be what I would expect into the fermenter... basically depending on how much of your kettle losses you salvage and how much break you pass on into the fermenter


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## felten (7/11/11)

If i set my BS2 batch size to 25L, 0 trub loss everything calculates out as I expect it. but if I change it to 20L batch size, 5L trub loss it throws the gravity and efficiency out of whack.


[edit] I just realised setting it up like that is the difference between end of boil eff and into the fermenter eff. I am slow today.


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## MarkBastard (7/11/11)

Isn't that what you'd expect felton?

If you have 25L, 0 trub loss, you are putting 25L of wort into the fermenter.
20L batch with 5L trub loss you are putting 20L of wort into the fermenter.

Efficiency is based on wort into fermenter.


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## felten (7/11/11)

You're right, I used that method in BS1 and copied it over without thinking. It all makes sense now.


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## MarkBastard (7/11/11)

No dramas. I haven't used version 2 by the way. Any good?


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## Phoney (7/11/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'm pretty sure it depends on the way you set BeerSmith up.



I was talking about the BIAB calculator rather than beersmith.


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## felten (7/11/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> No dramas. I haven't used version 2 by the way. Any good?


Its basically the same program, but there's more windows and flashy graphics.


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## Shifter (7/11/11)

Has anyone written a "mugs" guide to setting up BS2 with a 40 ltr electric crown urn ?.


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## tavas (7/11/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> No dramas. I haven't used version 2 by the way. Any good?



Not worth the $25 upgrade fee. Does everything BS1 does, fixed some things, broke other things. Bit flashier. Has a BIAB function but I've never used it.

In all honesty, Brewmate probably does everything just as well.


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## The Pope (7/11/11)

I'm a scruncher not a folder...
Oops, I meant I am a squeezer hehe!!!


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## tavas (7/11/11)

Shifter said:


> Has anyone written a "mugs" guide to setting up BS2 with a 40 ltr electric crown urn ?.




All I did was work out my boil off (about 14%). 
I use an esky as a mash tun so volume is based on esky size (33l). Assumed tun weight of 2kg.
Brewhouse efficiency 70%.
Losses to trub and chiller 5L
Lauter tun deadspace 0L
Top up water 0
Fermenter loss 1L
All else default.

I usually start with 33L of water, end up with 22L post fermentation.

if you fall short, just add the difference to one of your loss areas.

90% mash efficiency, 70% brewhouse efficiency. Works every time.

Tavas


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