# Better head in beers using BIAB



## fattox (11/4/14)

Hey guys,

I'm just curious, if you have any input on this, I'd really appreciate it.

Basically, when doing BIAB, how do you go about getting a better head?

Ive tried using carapils, but I imagine a step mash or something similar would be more ideal. The only problem is that doing BIAB in a crown urn, I've been told it isn't good to run the element in the kettle if you have the bag with grains in as it's potential to burn the bag and make a mess in the kettle.

So what do you do? I'm working on some Belgian ales which are best with a massive, dense, moussy head so any help would be appreciated soon!


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## GalBrew (11/4/14)

When I used to BIAB I had a SS cake rack at the bottom of the pot to protect the bag from heat when mashing out. Never had a problem with burning/melting the bag. Also add about 10% wheat malt can aid in head retention.


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## GrumpyPaul (11/4/14)

I have one of those perforated pizza trays that covers the bottom of my urn fully covering the element.

Lately I have been doing step mashes just turning the urn one and stirring the mash. Pizza tray keeps the bag off the element. I havent had any issues burning the bag.

Before this I used to do the steps by infusions.

Its a bit of a pain doing all the calcs to work out how much water at what temps to add to get your temps for each step. But there are some good calculators around to do this.


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## GrumpyPaul (11/4/14)

I must admit I was disappointed on opening this thread....

I was expecting a thread saying BIAB makes beer with better head....

We haven't had a good BIAB versus other methods shit fight for a while


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## barls (11/4/14)

Add about 250 g of wheat to the beer and let me know how it works for you


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## pk.sax (11/4/14)

Shush. It's been a while since someone posted their mum's linen undies on here.


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## fattox (12/4/14)

Haha I won't be carrying on with that whole BIAB argument haha. 

But even in an IPA or something you'd not usually use wheat in, would you still use it or something like a head enhancer or the like?


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## Bribie G (12/4/14)

If anything I quite often suffer from excessive persistent head, doing BIAB in a Crown Urn. Is it a glass cleanliness thing with you? Maybe try a really good nuke in a dishwasher.

For step mashing I use a curved roasting rack and pump the mash up and down with a paint stirrer that looks like a giant potato masher.


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## GrumpyPaul (12/4/14)

Now your just showing off Bribie

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk


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## Bribie G (12/4/14)

Another thing you can try with mainstream ales.. not sure about Belgians.. is to just boil for 30 minutes as discussed on another thread.


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## manticle (13/4/14)

Short 55 rest, 72 rest.
Clean, rinsed glassware.
Beer not served freezing.
Hop oils.

No different for biab compared with any other ag method.


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## Midnight Brew (13/4/14)

Cant comment on using step mashing with an urn but manticle's above suggestion gives lacing to the glass that appeals to all beer drinkers. If my brewday is short of time or going to be a full body mash I do just the 72C rest which helps.


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## fattox (21/4/14)

Yeah I usually do a basic sach rest at 63-69 depending on the beer and that's it. Might have to get a steamer basket or something and try start at 55 then ramp up to main sach temp then up to a mash out temp


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## Bribie G (21/4/14)

As posted a perfect thingo for BIAB is one of these from a Kitchen shop:




However if you are electric, please *don*'t do a protein rest then switch the power on to bring you up to sacch rest. You'll probably burn black shyte all over your element because of all the flour in the mash.

Once you get into the 60s the flour is fairly rapidly digested and won't settle round your element. If you are doing a protein rest I'd suggest do it with a reduced amount of strike water, then use kettles of boiling water to get you up into the 60s before you switch on your element / urn.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/4/14)

^ heed this advice. I f#%^ed my first urn by experimenting with step mashes with direct heat and limited research.


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## fattox (8/5/14)

Would it work using a herms coil setup? I've been thinking about something like that since our local big brew day, one of the guys had an ebiab set up with an external herms coil. So for example you start in at your protein rest, run herms, then use the herms to slowly ramp up to sach rest temps?


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## pk.sax (8/5/14)

Yep, I'm hanging till I can afford a herms coil setup...


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## Bribie G (8/5/14)

Oh still my beating heart


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## TheWiggman (8/5/14)

I've got a mate here who does BIAB and he does a single step mash with sparge. No mash out. I've tried 2 of his beers and they poured like soft drink. ZERO head. One was a 100% wheat. He's been chasing better head but short of step mashing, I can't help him. 
If not doing a multiple step is there any way to improve head? And if adding a small percentage of wheat improves head, does this imply that lots of wheat gives better head?

I do similar to what manticle has suggested, and have always had really good head. Joys of HERMS.


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## Bribie G (8/5/14)

Well I don't think we can help him either.


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## Lodan (8/5/14)

Wiggman, i think you need to inspect your mate's process.
What temperatures is he mashing at? WHat are the serving temps?


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## pk.sax (8/5/14)

Bribie G said:


> Oh still my beating heart
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd ask for my money back. That barman definitely was not taught what a proper amount of head on beer is supposed to look like.


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## TheWiggman (8/5/14)

68°, will drop to 63° over the hour. He's done an awesome log of each brew and loaned me the book for a bit. 
I served 2 different beers in warm glasses. 

Might have to do a brew with him and impart my subpar opinion. 
"Get a HERMS, all the cool kids are doing it."


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## Lodan (8/5/14)

5deg is a larger drop than most. The lower mash temp would result in a more fermentable wort and less body all round
some insulation may be in order


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## Liam_snorkel (9/5/14)

Why isn't he doing a mashout?


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## TheWiggman (9/5/14)

He hadn't heard of it. To my knowledge it's not really necessary either, though I do it.
Bear in mind this bloke bought a bag, an aluminium pot and a gas burner, and he was set to go. No taps, no syphons, only a heat belt with an STC-1000. His BIAB method is as simple as it gets and his beers taste good. He insulates the MT with a doona but with Orange topping 6°C some weeks a lot of heat loss is to be expected.

I think the way he does things is evidence that even with the simplest systems, you can produce good beer using AG. But head is the only thing he can't achieve.

He should be doing a brew in a few weeks. I'll check the following to see if this one's different -

Everything rinsed free of soaps
Stable mash temp, re-heating if necessary
Mashout
I'll also do as much sampling of his beer as possible in the interests of analysing the beer.
Oddly this link in brewwiki advises AGAINST a protein rest. How To Brew reinforces this.


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## TheWiggman (9/5/14)

Breaking news: he DOES do a mashout.
Also confirmed he doesn't wash with soap "any more"

Mysterious.


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## [email protected] (9/5/14)

barls said:


> Add about 250 g of wheat to the beer and let me know how it works for you


Barls got it in one. Add some wheat. Even plain old flour in the mash according to my Uni Lecture. Lots of foam positive proteins there.


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## Bribie G (9/5/14)

I've given up soap and shampoo as well, after watching that SBS show "Life on us" re the trillions of good bugs that live on and in us. After two weeks, my skin feels great, hair has thickened up and I've had two women do their bitch nose test and they reckon I'm just fine.

And I do a mashout.


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## davedoran (9/5/14)

Bribie G said:


> As posted a perfect thingo for BIAB is one of these from a Kitchen shop:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im glad I spotted this. I am doing a weizen tomorrow night (sat night brewing, How did life go from looking forward to going out to looking forward to staying in and doing a brew).
Brewing in a birko exposed element urn. BIAB
I was considering adding the grain and cold water and then controlling the mash temp with the dial. From what I read above this is bad and will get the scwartz shyte all over my element.
If this is correct I have 2 option.

Lift the bag out and raise temp. Turn off element and drop back in.
Decoction Mash.
Would love your thoughts.


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## Bribie G (9/5/14)

I'd start with a thick mash for protein rest, insulate the urn well (should hold temperature ok as it's a short step) then add boiling water slowly to bring it up to your next rest, checking with thermometer as you go. That way you shouldn't overshoot. For your final rest (72 or whatever) you can use hot water to bring it up to the full volume for the brew and if necessary use direct heat at that stage, as you shouldn't be in danger of burning the element.


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## Liam_snorkel (9/5/14)

Bribie G said:


> I've given up soap and shampoo as well, after watching that SBS show "Life on us" re the trillions of good bugs that live on and in us. After two weeks, my skin feels great, hair has thickened up and I've had two women do their bitch nose test and they reckon I'm just fine.
> 
> And I do a mashout.


 :icon_offtopic: I gave up soap & shampoo as a uni student a while back and boy, did I stink.

and I do a mashout.


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## davedoran (9/5/14)

Great thanks.

Will give that a go.
I will still use soap and shampoo as well. and mashout.


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## Blitzer (9/5/14)

I use soap and shampoo and don't mashout..

Oh also conditioner, watchout!


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## GrumpyPaul (9/5/14)

Bribie G said:


> I've given up soap and shampoo ......



Bribie - you're a pom arent you? I thought you guys gave up soap and shampoo as a nation some time in the last century?


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## Bribie G (9/5/14)

That was the French.


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## philmud (9/5/14)

Bribie G said:


> I've given up soap and shampoo as well, after watching that SBS show "Life on us" re the trillions of good bugs that live on and in us.


I'll never be the same after watching that. BUGS ARE ROOTING ON MY FACE! (And yours)


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## manticle (9/5/14)

Bug bukkake


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## philmud (9/5/14)

manticle said:


> Bug bukkake


They crap on your face too, and other bugs eat their crap, so it's also 2 bugs 1 cup


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## Yob (9/5/14)

fattox said:


> But even in an IPA or something you'd not usually use wheat in, would you still use it or something like a head enhancer or the like?


I use wheat in IPA's all the time, you'd never pick it... Not BIAB but makes no never mind anyway


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## fattox (12/5/14)

I'm thinking I might just have to barrel headlong into a herms setup. One of the other guys here programmed an arduino to I think either control or monitor his but I reckon you could do it quite easily. Another guy has the same as I want to go with but I've forgotten where he got it


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