# Will flaked grains self convert at all?



## Mr. No-Tip (6/2/14)

I think I know the answer to my question is a no, but want to be sure. I'm not missing something.

I am looking to make some different interpretations Peruvian Chicha (corn based spit beer) for a South American night coming up in a few months. One of the interpretations will be to make a version as close to the original as possible, but without chewing on the corn (the amalayse in spit converts the corn there).

I am going to malt some corn, but I won't have enough for the full batch. I am planning to use flaked maize for the bulk and wanting to avoid any malted barley.

So if I understand things right....the flaking, like a cereal mash has gelatinised the corn and made the starches available to be converted, but it doesn't convert anything at that point. The corn itself still has no diastatic power, even after cerael mashing or flaking?

So were I to mash this in isolation, what would i get? 0.0 hydro reading? A hydro reading that shows gravity, but gravity caused by starches, not sugars and that yeast would leave behind?

Another alternative is to use a dry enzyme...looking into that.


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## MartinOC (6/2/14)

I reckon you're right. The flaking process involves the grains being super-heated & crushed by heated rollers that complete the gelatinisation process. The heat involved in flaking would denature diastatic enzymes.

I know you said you didn't want to use barley at all, but six-row barley (predominantly US stuff) has enough diastatic power to convert something like 4-6 times it's own weight in adjunct starches, so you might be able to get a conversion with a minimal amount of barley (enough purely to achieve the conversion).


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## law-of-ohms (6/2/14)

use malted corn....

good luck!

But I think the best we can get would be %25 to %30 malted barley, balance corn. Should be enough MOJO in basic pilsner malt to do the conversion.


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## indica86 (6/2/14)

Or just man up and get chewing


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## Mr. No-Tip (6/2/14)

indica86 said:


> Or just man up and get chewing


I wish I could, but it's for a membership event at a national institution so probably need to keep things saliva free.

Going to look more into: http://www.sydneyhomebrew.com/threbrewshop/beer-making/beer-yeast/whitelabs/yeast-nutrients/white-labs-ultra-ferm-wln-4100.html


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## hoppy2B (6/2/14)

I'd go with 10% green corn malt being enough to convert your flaked stuff. 

Don't dry your malted corn as that reduces its diastatic power. Just put it in a blender with some water and add the resultant slop to your mash. You might want to consider boiling up your corn flakes first and letting cool to mash temp first, or adding some cool water after boiling to get it to mash temp.

One of the best beers I've ever had was a South African wet hopped all corn beer. :super:


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## Toper (6/2/14)

About 3 years ago at Vicbrew,there was an entry in the specialties catagory that was a modern interpretation of a traditional African beer.It used the skins from ripe bananas for enzymes to convert.Mind you it was a 3 day mash with 'numerous decoctions'.


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## Bizier (6/2/14)

Or you could use a traditional commercial amylase enzyme.


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## Mr. No-Tip (6/2/14)

My reading suggests that chicha was a higher finishing, sweeter beer drunk still fermenting anyway, so perhaps a lower amount of conversion won't matter as much anyways.

Still unsure if unconverted starch will affect a hydrometer?


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## indica86 (6/2/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Still unsure if unconverted starch will affect a hydrometer?


I understand it will, hence a poor mash schedule can leave a high finishing gravity. Or I could be wrong.


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## GalBrew (6/2/14)

Anything dissolved in a liquid will affect that liquid's specific gravity, be it starch or sugar or whatever. Dump a crapload of maltodextrin into wort and your SG will rise (and your FG) even though it is essentially unfermentable like starch.


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## QldKev (6/2/14)

Bizier said:


> Or you could use a traditional commercial amylase enzyme.


That's it, makes life pretty easy.


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## Mr. No-Tip (6/2/14)

Bizier said:


> Or you could use a traditional commercial amylase enzyme.


Like a brewcraft dry enzyme thing? I just got told by my lhbs that that's an in ferment addition, rather than mash.


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## Mr. No-Tip (6/2/14)

hoppy2B said:


> I'd go with 10% green corn malt being enough to convert your flaked stuff.
> 
> Don't dry your malted corn as that reduces its diastatic power. Just put it in a blender with some water and add the resultant slop to your mash. You might want to consider boiling up your corn flakes first and letting cool to mash temp first, or adding some cool water after boiling to get it to mash temp.
> 
> One of the best beers I've ever had was a South African wet hopped all corn beer. :super:


What is green corn malt?


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## QldKev (6/2/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Like a brewcraft dry enzyme thing? I just got told by my lhbs that that's an in ferment addition, rather than mash.


Nope not dry enzyme. The enzyme is more in the distillers section.

Depends on how much you need
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151211851740?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
or
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/wine/wine-making-ingredients-and-additives/still-spirits-alpha-amylase-enzyme


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## law-of-ohms (7/2/14)

http://www.deltagen.com.au/foodpro.html

Deltagen is awesome to deal with

Ask for Michael.


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## yankinoz (7/2/14)

There's such a thing as commercial chicha. Please post pic of phalanx of old ladies chewing away. But I'm told they use malted corn.


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## HBHB (7/2/14)

law-of-ohms said:


> http://www.deltagen.com.au/foodpro.html
> 
> Deltagen is awesome to deal with
> 
> Ask for Michael.


And ask him about deltamalt to see if it's suitable.


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## Mr. No-Tip (7/2/14)

yankinoz said:


> There's such a thing as commercial chicha. Please post pic of phalanx of old ladies chewing away. But I'm told they use malted corn.


Chicha morada? basicaly a purple corn cordial or soft drink. Tastes like footy card bubble gum.


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## hoppy2B (7/2/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> What is green corn malt?


Green malt is malt that is sprouting and alive and hasn't been dried. :blink:


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