# Hops Less Travelled - what are we trying?



## Pickaxe (17/9/13)

Hey fellas,

I'm wanting to branch out a little bit and try some different hops and wanted to test the waters here. First up:

Has anyone tried or been using *Sylva?*

_*Sylva*, meaning “of the forest", is an aroma hop with a bohemian accent. She brings typical hoppy characters to pilsner and pale lager.
While Sylva was born for a life as an Australian grown, fine aroma hop in the popular pale lager style, freedom of expression may find the brewer using Sylva in a range of alternative beer styles.
Her aroma is complex yet subtle, with floral notes and well-rounded herbal characters reminiscent of the forest floor and fresh sawn timber, that cangive beer a delicate earthiness._

I'm curious to see how this would go in a light aussie pale ale (got no temp control for lagers  ) and wondered what other results people have had. Does anyone know a commercial brew using Sylva? Curious as to _fresh sawn timber_, - sounds like it might be a good replacement or change from POR in my stock house pale ale.

*Ahtanum.*

I've read this described on a few sites as a more herbal cascade, and a good sub for cascade? I know it's only about a $1 cheaper, but if its something different, I'm up for it. Sometimes I think the "wow factor" of cascade and amarillo is overrated, and maybe there are other flavours to explore other than the norm. Especially now Amarillo is so ******* expensive.
Seen people saying Gage roads Atomic has Ahtanum? but **** Gage Roads and the Woolworths Trolley they road in on.. what have you guys been doing with it?

*Rakau & Kohatu*

Tried some waimea in a few brews, first round was a disappointment, but as a 10 min add to the second brew, it added a great character to a multi hopped APA/IPAalmost. Does anyone have thoughts on these two NZ hops? I'd already ordered the Waimea when I asked on here for thoughts, and most said bland bland bland, with a couple of exceptions. I'm asking first so I dont get stuck with a hop that i know nothing about.
B-Saaz is a big winner for me so I'm expecting good results from D - Saaz - but what of Kohatu?

With so many fruity hops around, what should we believe when it comes to the write up we get, which to be honest, often comes from one source site and is copy pasted copy pasted copy pasted without too much scrutiny at times. Anecdotal evidence is more often than not, clearly the best.


Also would like to hear other recommendations for hops less traveled to try from you all.
I find myself "going through the motions' at order time, but have recently spent time reading through all the hops descriptions but I'm getting lost in it all. Citra, Nelson, Cascade - there's plenty of info about them - what are others trying? I know there's a reason for something being popular and constantly discussed - its ******* quality and works and is great etc.. what I'm interested in hearing though, is what other hops might be worth trying here between my ******* amazing citra nelson amarillo hopped IPA etc...


Cheers guys,
pickaxe.


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## rheffera (17/9/13)

Right now im Brewing with:

*Vanguard:*
Vanguard is a US hop variety that came about in 1982 with breeding between a Hallertau mother and unnamed father. Like its parentage, Vanguard is somewhat noble and mild in aroma. At an average of 5.5 to 6% AA, Vanguard is great as an aroma addition in any German style beer (Munich Helles, Kolsch, Hefeweizen, Alt.) It's US parentage lends Vanguard an ever-so-slight herbal citrus that is quite restrained, but perfect for hybrid styles like American Wheat. 
Because of its US breeding and relatively higher Alpha compared to it parent Hallertau, Vanguard is a great substitute and money-saver both due to its availability and Alpha quantity.


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## vykuza (17/9/13)

Ahtanum:


I've used Ahtanum in a few beers a while back, and overall, it gets a thumbs up. It's definitely got Cascade notes, but slightly more woody/stemmy. It's definitely got a rougher bitterness, but it's still balanced, like Chinook. I don't keep some on hand, and can't see myself keeping it in the freezer, but I'll buy it again to mix with Cascade for a bit more oomph.


I'm interested in the Orbit blend - anyone tried it yet?


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## rheffera (17/9/13)

Nick, I haven't tried it myself but i plan on buying it in the near future. You can get it and a number of other hops i haven't heard of before from craft brewer. Im about to drop $350 there and a further $350 with yob. Thank god i don't have a SWMBO.

I'm looking forward to working with Boadicea.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/9/13)

Sylva - I've been using in anything "continental" beer style - I've got it sitting in a lovely Belgian Blonde that is a little on the light side (deliberately) at about 5% and it is absolutely wonderful - the same subtle spiciness you get in Saaz, and nothing too fruity that upsets the delicate esters. SWMBO loves it.

It was also in my Munich/Vienna cross - which I (and others) rated as being a bout 5-10 IBU light. But again, the brewer's fault, not the hop.


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## thermo_47 (17/9/13)

I used Ahtanum with Sorachi Ace for a really lemony/citrus focused hoppy golden - turned out real good 

It was about 1g/L Ahtanum against 2g/L Sorachi in the last 10 mins of boil, so maybe hard to define it's own personal flavour, but I definitely got a "more lemon and more grass/woodiness than cascade" kinda vibe, where I find cascade more orangey citrus than lemon.

Hope that helps 

I'm also interested in trying more local hops and have loved Vic Secret and Millenium, while keen to investigate for myself Ella, Summer Saaz and anything else new that's Australian. I've cube hopped a Rakau IPA but yet to ferment - excited though


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## Pickaxe (17/9/13)

Goomba, how do you think a heavier hand would go with Sylva? Think it would suit a straight sub in a Aussie Ale type brew? Just a basic bitter and 10min job? Pale malt, touch of wheat and a carared touch of colour? bitter to 30ibu? mash to ferment drier to about 1007. even using a coopers harvest yeast?
That's my house, is all im asking...


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## beachy (17/9/13)

In your Rakau/Kohatu paragraph it reads as though you believe Rakau is D saaz.
D saaz is actually Riwaka and my favourite NZ hop.
If I have misunderstood ignore this.


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## Danwood (17/9/13)

I'm going to be giving Bramling Cross a go soon in an ESB...also Challenger. 

Might do a double batch with Marris Otter, lots of wort caramelization and cube hop with one each of the above....a SMASH, if you will !

Not new varietals, I know, but uncommon in Aus.

Looking forward to it.


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## Pickaxe (17/9/13)

beachy said:


> In your Rakau/Kohatu paragraph it reads as though you believe Rakau is D saaz.
> D saaz is actually Riwaka and my favourite NZ hop.
> If I have misunderstood ignore this.


sorry mate, my mistake. I didnt mean that. getting confused with bloody kiwi names! HA!

what of riwaka anyway?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/9/13)

I bittered to around 25IBU with the Vienna/Munich - the sweetness of those malts as a base was just a bit much and the beer, whilst nice, was probably unbalanced.

I would think that it would go well with a heavier hand. A lightish belgian to 20IBU, and this was balanced, the hops subtle. Definitely a continental type hop for the most part.

In a house Aussie Ale - I reckon you're looking at an ale version of an Aussie Premium Lager - the cascade/boags premium style thing, where they use German/Czech hops. I think it would be a good hop for a heavy hand - and would handle 30IBU (which is the lower end of my M/V beer's ideal IBU) easily.

If you went much less than 30IBU, you might find the coopers yeast will dominate it, as the T58 fermented warm has for me. That will be a personal preference thing, if it's good or bad.


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## Pickaxe (17/9/13)

Nice, I really want to give it a go. I always willing to support Aussie hops, but just havent heard too much about em. And yeah, I find myself leaning to trying to make faux lagers with ale yeast, mash low. I have temp issues which dont allow lager yeasts, but i love the results. bring on saison season, i'll be doing that this year with a QLD summer.

need to look at other yeasts i can use at 20-24 comfortably.

Ella and Summer Saaz? Keen to hear more.


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## BeerNess (17/9/13)

Riwaka is fking amazing IMO. Just so hard to get. 

Sylva is in my to brew list too as well as most of the Aussie hops. 

Just ordered some Helga from Yob to try in my Ordinary Bitter recipe, I'm optimistic. 

Ella I've been using with great results, usually been with some cascade or galaxy.


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## beachy (17/9/13)

Pickaxe said:


> sorry mate, my mistake. I didnt mean that. getting confused with bloody kiwi names! HA!
> 
> what of riwaka anyway?


Riwaka is a great blend of fruity and citrus without any harshness you can get from using some US hops in large amounts.
The high oil content and character makes a great APA or AIPA style.


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## Dave70 (17/9/13)

Sticklebract. 

Kind of like Chinook with basically double the beta acid content. Piney, citrus, but mostly pine.

Can be a bit rough by the handfull, but so is Chinook in my opinion, but I'd love to give it a go in a big IPA or barley wine to see how it ages. I used it as a substitute for Chinook in a pretty standard APA and it was definitely smoothing out by kegs end. Isn't that always the way?


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## Pickaxe (18/9/13)

Sticklebract eh? I love Chinook. Just about to try and replicate a Tower IPA, which is mainly Chinook with Cascade. It's a mega big hop that Chinook. I cant get enough of it, though i don't find it satisfying in the Little Creatures Pale Ale.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/9/13)

Pickaxe said:


> Sticklebract eh? I love Chinook. Just about to try and replicate a Tower IPA, which is mainly Chinook with Cascade. It's a mega big hop that Chinook. I cant get enough of it, though i don't find it satisfying in the Little Creatures Pale Ale.


If you do replicate it I would love to see your recipe, I just think that apart from the price it is better than the Sierra Nevada Torpedo.


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## Thefatdoghead (4/10/13)

Anyone tried Summer saaz in an American Pils style? Thinking about using it all through 60,20,10,5,0 minutes, same as I would with czech saaz. Cant really find much info on it. Supposed to be like czech saaz without the spice and some fruity flavours.


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## yum beer (4/10/13)

Really wanna give Topaz a go, very much like the Endeavour Ale with it.....just too many other things to brew first.


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## mje1980 (4/10/13)

I just used some calypso late in a saison. Apple and pear sound like a good match for saison


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## DU99 (4/10/13)

i got some merdian hops..interesting see what happens


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## jphowman (5/10/13)

Reading this post got me inspired to try out some of the new Australian hops I've been reading about, so I got 90g packets of Sylva, Ella, and Victoria's Secret from Craftbrewer.

I'm planning to brew all of these with a Coopers Real Ale kits and LDME to ~1.050 and ferment with a lager yeast to test them out.

I put the first one down on Tuesday ~1.048 with a 5 minute boil of 45g of Sylva, then dropped in a frementor over night since my chiller won't do that small a volume.

The smell coming out of the newly opened packet was promising. The sticky, green smell of fresh hops (myrcene?) lasted less then a minute before it died out, but it was replaced by some lovely melon and spice aromas (soft spices like cinnamon, rather than sharp spices like pepper or nutmeg).
The "fresh sawn timber" that is talked about was there, but in the background. I probably wouldn't have picked it except I was looking for it.

Smelling and tasting the wort I could barely detect the hops. This could mean it is a very subtle hop after brewing, or it could be that the slow cooling blew out all the aromas but I always have difficulty tasting hops through unfermented wort so it's probably a combination.

I'll be fermenting it with Craftbrewer's Swiss Lager yeast at 11C.

Watch this space for more.


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## vykuza (17/10/13)

I've ordered some Sylva to try in a basic blonde. I get hints from some searches that it's a rename of Summer Saaz? Can anyone confirm that?

Also trying Mosaic in my own brew for the first time. A little worried it's going to end up like galaxy (which I have learned to loathe.. so over that pasito flavour).

Still haven't gotten some Orbit!


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## Phoney (17/10/13)

I'm loving Apollo. 
Pairs well with cascade/centennial or simcoe. Good clean and efficient bittering (17%AA!). Like marijuana and citrus (orange / grapefruit) when used late.


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## Bribie G (17/10/13)

So many hops, so little time. I just cleared out my hops collection and catalogued them to store them in my new freezer. I've been in bulk buys, buys from Hops Direct, Ellerslie, Yakima you name it. 
Today I found a pound of German Saphir that had turned out almost as good as the Chinese Hops and a pound of UK EKG that were a tad worse (from Ellerslie). 

Nearly $40 down. That's why nowadays If I have a brilliant idea for a hop I'll just get 90 or 100g from an Aussie supplier and if it's a ripper (like the current Challenger from Ross or the EKG from Marks Home Brew) I'll get the pound deal from them. I honestly and sincerely believe I've not broken anywhere near even in my hop career by getting from overseas. Don't use much Cascadia hops nowadays and if I do up a keg or three of Yak for the rellies and visitors I've got POR, NZ Cascade and NS and can do the thing on all flowers. :beerbang:

The kilo of stale hops went to my mate round the corner. He sweats the resins out of them and smokes it - he reckons they are the best sedative and has given up at least two prescriptions from the doc h34r:


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## rheffera (17/10/13)

Hopping the hell out of a homebrew lager kit tommorow with Glacier. It's an experiment two-fold.

a) Is it possible to make this B-grade malt palatable
b ) what does glacier taste like on its own


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## Spiesy (17/10/13)

Nick R said:


> Also trying Mosaic in my own brew for the first time. A little worried it's going to end up like galaxy (which I have learned to loathe.. so over that pasito flavour).


It's nothing like Galaxy, imo.


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