# Motor For Millmaster Input



## Sully (29/12/08)

Hi All,

I lashed out and bought a Millmaster from CB and looking at options for a cheap motor setup. After a bit of research I have come up with these options:

200W Drill Press comes with Pulleys and switch $62.00 - easy modifications to suit

200W Bench Grinder - needs a few minor modifications $42.00

My main question is would 200W be sufficient grunt for say a 5kg plus grain bill and does anyone have any other suggestions? I have looked thru other members mills, but I dont want to go windscreen wiper motor or washing machine motor option and prefer to buy new bits (I am a bit anal that way  ). Budget is set under $100.00.

Cheers

Sully


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## browndog (29/12/08)

Sully,
There is a guy who advertises in the Weekend Shopper in Saturdays Courier Mail in the tools section selling electric motors pretty cheap up your way. After rigging up a millmaster with pulleys for Ross, I can tell you that the biggest problem you will have is finding a pulley to fit the shaft. Pulleys are made to fir a 1/2" shaft, the millmaster is 12mm. I ended up building the shaft up with aluminium tape then banging the pulley on with a mallet. You could always go the direct drive way with a spider coupling but the downside is your mill will spin at the same speed as the motor. It needs to be about 100rpm.


cheers

Browndog


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## recharge (29/12/08)

I have a small drill press motor (250W)1450rpm on mine and it just doesn't have the power to load up the hopper. i have to sprinkle my grain through, not a big deal for me at the moment as i only crush 2 to 3kg. Also its on a 3 roller crankenstein so don't know if that will affect much. 

Hope that helps.

Rich


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## mika (29/12/08)

I've got ~500W on my mill, I wouldn't go any less. Grain bills with high percentages of Rye and Wheat can still stall the motor without slipping the belt.


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## Sully (29/12/08)

OK, thanks for the input fellas.

I have sourced a 1HP motor 2830RPM, that _*should*_ cover it?

I have looked at the online pulley calculators and a bit unsure in trying to work out what size pulleys to get down to 100RPM as Browndog suggested. So far it works out at 2" drive and 50" driven, am I missing something cause 50" is frickin huge?

Cheers

Sully

PS Brownie: Checked Sat W/E Shopper and its probably the only weekend that guy you mentioned has not advertised.


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## porky (29/12/08)

that will give you 113 RPM. 
pulley is not too big then, but you could go a bit faster and reduce the pulley. 
still will be huge though, and expensive I would think. 
to get 180 RPM you will still need a pulley at around 33 inches.
slower motor is the go. 1400 RPM, maybe hang out for one of those.

Cheers,
Bud


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## samhighley (29/12/08)

I'm looking to motorise my Millmaster and i'm pretty handy with tools, but I know nothing about gear drive motors etc.

So what would people recommend as the best option for motorising?

What are the possible options for motorising via a belt and pulley setup?


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## samhighley (29/12/08)

Is anyone using one of these motors with a MillMaster?


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## warra48 (29/12/08)

I'm toying with the idea of rigging up the motor from a motorized golf buggy, ie the walk behind job, not the sit down job. I'm sure I can pick one up cheap at my golf club, and it will turn the mill nice and slow with plenty of torque. I've got the battery and charger for my own buggy, and if it can move my buggy for 36 holes of golf, it can grind 5 kg of grain.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (29/12/08)

You can use a three wheel system,IE intermediate wheel on a lazy shaft. The middle shaft gets rid of those massive reductions.Not really expensive just involves more planning.Or do what I have done and get a reduction gear box to suit your RPM coupled by a spider coupler..Got motor and gearbox off Ebay for $175 new.
GB


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## Sully (29/12/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You can use a three wheel system,IE intermediate wheel on a lazy shaft. The middle shaft gets rid of those massive reductions.Not really expensive just involves more planning.Or do what I have done and get a reduction gear box to suit your RPM coupled by a spider coupler..Got motor and gearbox off Ebay for $175 new.
> GB



The penny finally dropped and now I understand (sort of) how to work out what pulleys I will need.


How I am going to attack this is:

2" pulley on the motor to a 10" pulley on a lazy shaft - 2830rpm to 566rpm

2" pulley on the lazy shaft to 10" pulley on the Mill - 566rpm to 113.2rpm

Does that sound right?

Cheers

Sully


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## porky (29/12/08)

yup it does.
that is now 4 pulleys, one extra shaft, two bearings for the "lazy" shaft, something to mount the lazy shaft on, and two belts to drive it all.

no problem

or hang out for a slower motor


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## Sully (29/12/08)

budwiser said:


> yup it does.
> that is now 4 pulleys, one extra shaft, two bearings for the "lazy" shaft, something to mount the lazy shaft on, and two belts to drive it all.
> 
> no problem
> ...


Yeah, I should do that. I cannot get hold of anyone to get prices atm, all closed til the 12th. Besides, I'm an impatient sod  .


I can get this particular motor for $80.00 (cheap chinese unit) thru ebay if it goes for that, which previous ones have. The only other prices I have found so far were the $180 and upwards bracket. I could justify that amount if I was using it say more than once a week, but still yet to get prices on pulleys & bits so that will also decide which way to go anyways.

Thanks for the input though - definately food for thought. Will sleep on it and get prices on the other bits tomorrow..

Cheers

Sully


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## browndog (29/12/08)

Sully, how ever you end up motorising it, all I can say after seeing Ross's mill in operation is *look out* it kicks massive butt, if you got your fingers in there it will tear your arm off.

cheers

Browndog


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## Sully (30/12/08)

browndog said:


> Sully, how ever you end up motorising it, all I can say after seeing Ross's mill in operation is *look out* it kicks massive butt, if you got your fingers in there it will tear your arm off.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog





Care to share some pics and specs Bd? PLEEEAAASE?


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## samhighley (30/12/08)

Sammy said:


> Is anyone using one of these motors with a MillMaster?



I'll try and get AndrewQLD in here to comment on this motor setup.


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## jlm (30/12/08)

I use a 750W Makita on low. Sits in a little stand which sits over a bucket. If you've got a decent drill (and it would want to be a good one) will get you going in the meantime.


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## durgarth (30/12/08)

Sully said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I lashed out and bought a Millmaster from CB and looking at options for a cheap motor setup. After a bit of research I have come up with these options:
> 
> ...



Sully,

I also recently purchased a grain mill and very quickly got sick of grinding the grains by hand....maybe I'm just lazy (LOL). So I purchased a GMC (cheap as possible) drill press, making sure that the pulley's from the drill press could be used on the the arm from the mill (hope that makes sense). The motor was a small (fairly sure it was bigger than 200 watts though, possibly 250 or 300???). The drill press i bought had two sets of pullies.  That way you can mount one on the motor side and another to the grain mill arm. That way you can slow the grain mill down.

I mounted the motor and drill press on a nice peice of maple that is able to "sit" over my mash vessel. Place the grains in bin, plug it in and away you go.

I have done 10 AG brews using this method and my efficiency is great. Cost of the drill press was about $70. I'm sure you can pick one up at Bunnings.

My only tip is to make sure the pullies fit onto your grain mill arm.

Cheers 

Steve


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## browndog (30/12/08)

Sully said:


> Care to share some pics and specs Bd? PLEEEAAASE?



Sorry Sully, I neglected to take any photos at all during construction, I can tell you the motor is a bloody big 3 phase, don't know if it is 2800 or 1400 rpm. The pulley on the motor is about 3" dia. and the one on the mill is 17" that Ross sourced from somewhere. I reckon you would need at least a 1/3 to 1/2 HP to run a millmaster via pulleys. 
It is basically a flat table with the motor bolted on one end at the other end the mill unit sits on top of the hopper accessory go get it high enough above the table to give clearance to the 17" pulley on the millshaft. There is a square hole cut through the table so the crushed grain drops though to a bucket below. The height of the table suits one of those white 15L buckets you can buy at supercheap, if you want I can post a few pics of my mill, which while being a home made job, is set up the same way.

cheers

Browndog


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## Sully (30/12/08)

browndog said:


> Sorry Sully, I neglected to take any photos at all during construction, I can tell you the motor is a bloody big 3 phase, don't know if it is 2800 or 1400 rpm. The pulley on the motor is about 3" dia. and the one on the mill is 17" that Ross sourced from somewhere. I reckon you would need at least a 1/3 to 1/2 HP to run a millmaster via pulleys.
> It is basically a flat table with the motor bolted on one end at the other end the mill unit sits on top of the hopper accessory go get it high enough above the table to give clearance to the 17" pulley on the millshaft. There is a square hole cut through the table so the crushed grain drops though to a bucket below. The height of the table suits one of those white 15L buckets you can buy at supercheap, if you want I can post a few pics of my mill, which while being a home made job, is set up the same way.
> 
> cheers
> ...



That's cools Bd, I just wanted to know what specs were on Ross' unit to make it so powerful. 3 phase I imagine would make the mother of motorised mills. 

Only if you got time to post pics that would be great, although it would prolly be good for other members to have a peek at too. I pretty well much got the stand etc sussed out, just have to get the motor sorted.

Cheers

Sully


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## AndrewQLD (31/12/08)

Sammy said:


> I'll try and get AndrewQLD in here to comment on this motor setup.



Sorry for the late response Sammy.
I've been using this motor for some time now and it's a workhorse.
Mine is powered by a 12 v car battery and is easily powerful enough to start the mill with a full hopper.

The shaft of the motor and the mill are joined with a spider coupler so it's very easy to set up.
At current count it"s crushed about 150 kg of grain and I have only recharged the battery once. It"s fairly quiet too and crushes 5 kilo of malt in about 90 seconds.

Cheers
Andrew


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## samhighley (7/1/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> Sorry for the late response Sammy.
> I've been using this motor for some time now and it's a workhorse.
> Mine is powered by a 12 v car battery and is easily powerful enough to start the mill with a full hopper.
> 
> ...




I wonder if it would be worth gearing it down slightly to get the speed down a little to more like the 60-80 rpm recommended?


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## Pumpy (7/1/09)

You dont need a motor on you Mill master, unless you are a whimp, what wrong with you boy , hell its only ten minutes of work if you are mashing 40 litres comon !!!.

Get a handle !!!!

Pumpy :angry:


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## Sully (7/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> You dont need a motor on you Mill master, unless you are a whimp, what wrong with you boy , hell its only ten minutes of work if you are mashing 40 litres comon !!!.
> 
> Get a handle !!!!
> 
> Pumpy :angry:





MORE POWER!!!! <insert Tim the Toolman Taylor grunts>


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## Tony (7/1/09)

Ahhhhhh i will never forget the looks on Pumpy's, Ducatiboy's and Ross's faces years ago when they saw my mill run the grain through with a motor on it.

It finnished and if i recal corectly...... all were silent for a few seconds and Ross said........... 

"Ahhhh.... takes all the fun out of it!"

Mind you........ pumpy is the only one without a motor on his mill but he is a Pom.......... he needs something to complain about :lol:  

cheers


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## Pumpy (7/1/09)

Tony said:


> Ahhhhhh i will never forget the looks on Pumpy's, Ducatiboy's and Ross's faces years ago when they saw my mill run the grain through with a motor on it.
> 
> It finnished and if i recal corectly...... all were silent for a few seconds and Ross said...........
> 
> ...



Yes Tony it was impressive i must say, but all those years later and my biceps look like Popeye's now .

Ross has put it all on his belly too much of the good life and Stu is still working out what to do with the Copper chiller he built .

Your finger must be beefing up too switching that motor on too.  

Pumpy


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## porky (7/1/09)

no motor, no good. simple
the wheel was a great invention...but now we have the wheel and electricity
just so much better  

cheers,
bud


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## samhighley (2/2/09)

What are the options for powering one of these Oatley motors? I'm thinking i'll run it at 24V and gear it down further to about 100 rpm.

Would a 400W PC power supply do the job? Something like this one which runs 400W at 24v.

Sam


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## atkinsonr (3/2/09)

G'day Sammy.
Am considering one of those too.

Some mention of them here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=21116

And here: http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/cheapdiybike.htm

Seems the current draw is dependent on load. 13A @ 24V under 'rated load' of 1.87 Nm. 

I'm no expert, anyone know how 1.87Nm would go?

I reckon I'd have buckleys of milling with this driven by an ATX computer supply, but that 12V 16A one you are looking at might be OK??


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## razz (3/2/09)

Not much chance of 1.87Nm being enough to drive a millmaster. I think AndrewQld has one of these motors on his mill.
Whoops! Should have checked the link above. :wacko:


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## AndrewQLD (3/2/09)

Sammy said:


> View attachment 24450
> 
> 
> What are the options for powering one of these Oatley motors? I'm thinking i'll run it at 24V and gear it down further to about 100 rpm.
> ...



Mines hooked up to a 12 volt car battery, the reduced voltage means a slower and better crush, 5 kilos runs through in about 2 minutes and the battery lasts about 8-10 crushes between charges.

Andrew


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## atkinsonr (3/2/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> Mines hooked up to a 12 volt car battery, the reduced voltage means a slower and better crush, 5 kilos runs through in about 2 minutes and the battery lasts about 8-10 crushes between charges.
> 
> Andrew



Any idea of the max current it pulls during a crush?


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## afromaiko (3/2/09)

I'm just going to chuck this up here too, would it be possible to use a roller door motor? They can lift a pretty heavy double door, but I'm not sure it that's only because of the tension that's already built into the door.


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## AndrewQLD (3/2/09)

Richy said:


> Any idea of the max current it pulls during a crush?




No, but I can run some grain through tonight and take a reading. I'll post back tonight.

Andrew


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## samhighley (3/2/09)

Richy said:


> And here: http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/cheapdiybike.htm



So I assume these bikes use a couple of lead acid batteries hooked up in series to give 24 volt. The critical factor then, if one is to use battery power, is to determine the maximum current draw and match this up to some suitable lead acid batteries.




Richy said:


> I'm no expert, anyone know how 1.87Nm would go?



According to the Oatley website the nominal torque is 7.46 Nm, which I assume is at the published rated speed of 320 rpm.

The figures on the bike website are quoting torque figures at the maximum RPM of the motor, rather than the output on the drive shaft. These are gear motors, so what comes out the output shaft is not the same as the motor is generating at the motor shaft (that's the point of a gear motor).

For instance the quoted 'rated load' torque of 0.87 Nm is at 2738 rpm, which when converted to the output RPM of 320 rpm ((2738 / 320) * 0.87) gives you the Oatley figure of around 7.4 Nm of torque.

This equates to 66 pound inches of torque, which according to this website should be sufficient for crushing grain. But obviously i'm no engineer, so all of these numbers are purely pie-in-the-sky at this point.

The max torque quoted on the bike website is 1.68 Nm at 2275 rpm at a current draw of 24 amps. This would equate to almost 12 Nm of torque at the output shaft if i'm not mistaken.

Sam


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## T.D. (3/2/09)

And that would assume a 1:1 final drive ratio too wouldn't it? So if you had a sprocket on the mill with twice the teeth as the one on motor, torque would double again.


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## atkinsonr (3/2/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> No, but I can run some grain through tonight and take a reading. I'll post back tonight.
> 
> Andrew



That would be awesome. One of these motors direct driving a monster mill from a recycled ATX computer supply would be a very tidy set up - providing it doesn't draw more than 12 Amps @ 12V.

Sammy, nice work on the link and the conversion.


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## rwmingis (3/2/09)

Richy said:


> I'm no expert, anyone know how 1.87Nm would go?



This one's probably been answered but for everyone else...

You can easily figure out the torque you require on the shaft, just need a very simple equation.

All you need to do is test out your manual hand crank first. If you can figure out how hard you need to push on it then you can easily find out the rest. You can do this by hanging a known weight off the handle when it's horizontal, or simply push on the handle with a scale and take the reading.

The required torque on the inputshaft in Nm is simply: T = P * L * 9.81 where

P = Equivalent hand force on crank, how hard you push in kilograms
L = Length of crank (Centre of shaft to centre of handle)


Say you find it takes 5kg to push down on a 300mm long hand crank, then the torque required at the input shaft to crush grain is:

T = 5kg * 0.3m * 9.81 = 14.7 Nm 

This would be how much torque you would need at the input shaft after gear reduction. 

If you want 100 RPM at this torque then you have Required Power in watts = (RPM * Torque) / 9.55. 

Take required power and divided by motor rated RPM and multiply by 9.55 will give you required motor torque before the step down. Ie

P = (100 RPM * 14.7Nm) / 9.55 = 153 W (motor power)

If i have a motor that runs at 600 rpm then the required motor torque is:

Tmotor = (153 * 9.55) / 600 = 2.435 Nm

BTW in this case you would have needed a 6:1 reduction so

600 RPM / 6 = 100 RPM and 2.435 Nm * 6 = 14.7 Nm

Don't forget to leave a bit up your sleeve. Hope this makes sense as I'm rushing it during my lunch hour.

Cheers,

Rob


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## razz (3/2/09)

That's good info Rob, thanks. Based on your cals I've worked out the required torque for my millmaster. It took 6.25 kgs to turn the 300mm handle from a horizontal position and I loaded the hopper with wheat malt. I used wheat as it's harder than barley malt and I thought it would save me using barley malt and then adding "something up my sleeve" to allow for harder grains. Therefore I need 18.4Nm of force at the drive shaft.
I just went out to the shed and added the larger corflute hopper and it took 10kgs of force so I need to recalculate. 29.43Nm.


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## Phrak (3/2/09)

This has been a very interesting thread, thanks for the info.

As a total motor/gearing n00b, I'm still a little lost about exactly what will and won't work. I'm after the cheapest practical solution to motorise my mill, I have a drill attached at the moment, and it just doesn't cut it.

So, if I want to motorise my mill, will any of these motors work?

$86 Oatley 24V 250W DC GEARED MOTOR - http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//produ...products_id=192
$39 Oatley 24V 300W DC MOTOR http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//produ...products_id=665
$109 Oatley 24V LARGE 500W DC MOTOR http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//produ...products_id=667

or this one looks interesting:
$39 Volt Elextronics, 12V DC Reversible Gearhead Motor - 160RPM http://stores.channeladvisor.com/volt-elec...?itemid=4669762

Then it's pretty-much a matter of finding the right sprockets to reduce whatever the rpm of the motor is to ~100rpm at the mill, right?
Any decent online places to buy chains and sprockets? or belts and pullies?

Tim


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## razz (3/2/09)

It depends on the type of mill you have Tim. As Rob suggested work out the torque requirements for your mill and work from there. Looking at those links I think the only one that would be suitable is the third link.


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## AndrewQLD (3/2/09)

Richy said:


> That would be awesome. One of these motors direct driving a monster mill from a recycled ATX computer supply would be a very tidy set up - providing it doesn't draw more than 12 Amps @ 12V.
> 
> Sammy, nice work on the link and the conversion.




Richy, I loaded up the hopper with wheat and switched on the motor, multimeter read max 10amp current draw throughout the whole crush. It did fluctuate a little between 8-10amp but no higher than 10 amp.

Phrak, the geared motor from Oatley only needs a spider coupler from Jaycar to connect it to the mill, only a couple of bucks too.

Andrew


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## atkinsonr (3/2/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> Richy, I loaded up the hopper with wheat and switched on the motor, multimeter read max 10amp current draw throughout the whole crush. It did fluctuate a little between 8-10amp but no higher than 10 amp.



Andrew, thanks buddy that's some great practical info for monster owners everywhere. I'm going to order one of those suckers tonight!

Will post pics of my monster crusher before the month is out!

Richy


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## rwmingis (3/2/09)

Richy said:


> Andrew, thanks buddy that's some great practical info for monster owners everywhere. I'm going to order one of those suckers tonight!
> 
> Will post pics of my monster crusher before the month is out!
> 
> Richy



Wish I bought one of those, I bought the barley crusher. Works fine, and it came with a hopper. But was terribly unimpressed when I found that they use an O-ring around the driven roller to drive the idler roller, especially when the O-ring broke on the first run. Lucky that it's not a required bit... Oh well, live and learn.

Razz if you want me to check your calcs, send me a pm with your number crunching....

Cheers,

Rob


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## samhighley (5/2/09)

My motor arrived from Oatley today, so hopefully i'll be able to source some belts and pulleys shortly and report some results!

Sam


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## atkinsonr (5/2/09)

Sammy said:


> My motor arrived from Oatley today, so hopefully I'll be able to source some belts and pulleys shortly and report some results!
> 
> Sam



Mine too! And I've scrounged a PSU from a retired server at work - it's the size of a brick but has a max load of 25A on the 12V channel, and was the right price.

I'm planning to use that and a direct drive via coupler, much like AndrewQLD.

If anyone else is planning on modding a computer power supply - please remember to respect the minimum loads on the other channels (3.3v 5v) with a resistor.

Cheers
Rich


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## samhighley (10/2/09)

Sammy said:


> My motor arrived from Oatley today, so hopefully i'll be able to source some belts and pulleys shortly and report some results!



I see Oatley are now out of stock of this motor. I guess AHB members bought them out 

As expected the difficulty here for me is going to be sourcing belts and pulleys.

The other option is using chain drive, which makes things a little easier because there is already a sprocket on the motor, and it's compatible with the larger sprockets that I can source from the industrial suppliers I visited today.

My preference remains belt and pulley drive because the belt offers a weak link in the system should the mill encounter something like a rock. I don't know how likely this is though?

Sam


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## mika (10/2/09)

I hung my motor on the belt, hoping that this would offer a point of slip. I've had it slip once, the other times it's just stalled the motor as it sits there making a buzzing noise <_< I'm always standing right next to the mill when I'm milling so never been an issue. Unless you've got motor to spare, I don't think that a 'safety slip' in the system is necessary, I'd much rather have the motor stall out and thus know that my motor isn't up to the task then be standing there watching the belt slip. I mean, if the belt slips and there's no major obstructions in the way, as soon as you switch it back on you're just going to increase the belt tension, aren't you ?
Maybe a bit different for a drive where something can snap and come at you, like a rocketing chain link, but I would have thought it'd have to be pretty crap chain before a 500W stalled motor would load up a chain to that point.
Anyway, just my musings.


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## atkinsonr (10/2/09)

Sammy said:


> I see Oatley are now out of stock of this motor. I guess AHB members bought them out
> 
> As expected the difficulty here for me is going to be sourcing belts and pulleys.
> 
> ...



That's possibly true, mine is sitting on my desk next to me waiting for my birthday so I can have my lovely new monster mill.

FWIW I'm not planning to use any belts, pulls, chains or sprockets... more simply a direct drive using a lovejoy spider coupler and possibly (if required) a high amperage speed controller - also available from Oatley.

Richy


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## samhighley (10/2/09)

mika said:


> IUnless you've got motor to spare, I don't think that a 'safety slip' in the system is necessary, I'd much rather have the motor stall out and thus know that my motor isn't up to the task then be standing there watching the belt slip.



I've been thinking about this all night, and it suddenly dawned on me that the Oatley motor is going to have enough torque, if calculations are correct, to comfortably mill grain, but if it hits an obstruction like a rock then the motor will just stall, as you say. I was mostly worried about hitting a rock and having the motor damage the mill, but given the torque calculations are fairly close to what is required, this is of course very unlikely.

With this in mind I think i'll go down the chain drive path. The large sprocket for the mill is only about $40, and the chain couldn't be too expensive, so it shouldn't be too expensive an option. Now I just need to work out how to get the large sprocket onto the mill. All of the sprockets are of course 1/2 inch (12.7mm) whereas the Millmaster shaft is 12mm.

Sam


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## rwmingis (10/2/09)

mika said:


> I hung my motor on the belt, hoping that this would offer a point of slip. I've had it slip once, the other times it's just stalled the motor as it sits there making a buzzing noise <_< I'm always standing right next to the mill when I'm milling so never been an issue. Unless you've got motor to spare, I don't think that a 'safety slip' in the system is necessary, I'd much rather have the motor stall out and thus know that my motor isn't up to the task then be standing there watching the belt slip. I mean, if the belt slips and there's no major obstructions in the way, as soon as you switch it back on you're just going to increase the belt tension, aren't you ?
> Maybe a bit different for a drive where something can snap and come at you, like a rocketing chain link, but I would have thought it'd have to be pretty crap chain before a 500W stalled motor would load up a chain to that point.
> Anyway, just my musings.




Careful with a belt too, they can create a bit more of a load on the shaft and shafts in general don't like overhung (cantilevered) loads. By nature, a belt a has a little more tension than a chain so that it can develop the required friction to spin the pulley, which results in a load on the shaft. As it spins, it's effectively bending the shaft backwards and forwards which over time can break it due to fatigue. With my barley crusher they say not to use a belt, I suppose because they've had breakages, but that's just speculation. Chains are nice, i'm considering one, but chains hurt more when you put your finger in them.  

Just my 2 cents, i'm just waiting to see how you guys go with the oatley motor...


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## floppinab (19/2/09)

Brewing Bob said:


> i'm just waiting to see how you guys go with the oatley motor...



+1, have had a gutful of slowly pouring grain into the hopper so it doesn't stall the horribly underpowered drill that is driving the mill.


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## atkinsonr (19/2/09)

floppinab said:


> +1, have had a gutful of slowly pouring grain into the hopper so it doesn't stall the horribly underpowered drill that is driving the mill.



I'm going to be connecting mine to a monster mill, so I'm not sure if that's of use to you?

The mill arrived this week, and I'm just waiting on a shaft coupler which should arrive in the next day or two.

We've got people staying so there won't be much progress this weekend, the hardest part for me will be making the frame, mount and hopper but I hope to get on to that next weekend.

Will definitely post up some info once it's together.


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## cooperplace (19/2/09)

Hi,

YOu've probably got it all worked out by now, but I've got a Schmidling malt mill, and I rang Jack Schmidling and asked him and he said, "just stick a really powerful electric drill on it".

I've got 3 drills:

1. 18V cordless: hopeless
2. cheap Chinese 240V bought from Bunnings for $19.95, electronic speed control, rated at 500W: hopeless.
3. old (about 20 years) 240V Hitachi, rated 570W, has hi/lo gearbox; used on lo this unit is excellent. 

A drill like this could be bought for <$100.

conclusions: plenty of power is good, having a gearbox likewise,
hope this helps

Peter


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## samhighley (21/2/09)

The motorisation with the Oatley motor is complete.





Chain guard off:




The grain input bin:




The grain output bin:




Large gear closeup:




Small gear closeup:





And finally a  of the first run.'


And another input bin shot, 'cos I can't work out how to delete it


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## samhighley (21/2/09)

I'm running at 24 volt via two lead-acid batteries hooked up in series. The large gear is 40 teeth and the small is 10 for a 4 to 1 reduction, which means the mill is running at around 80 rpm. As the video demonstrates there is more than enough torque to handle the crush.

I had the 40 tooth sprocket custom machined down to the shaft size of 12mm. Mashmaster should seriously consider making the mill shaft a half inch (12.7mm). This would make it a lot cheaper to motorise.


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## Steve (21/2/09)

Sammy said:


> I'm running at 24 volt via two lead-acid batteries hooked up in series. The large gear is 40 teeth and the small is 10 for a 4 to 1 reduction, which means the mill is running at around 80 rpm. As the video demonstrates there is more than enough torque to handle the crush.
> 
> I had the 40 tooth sprocket custom machined down to the shaft size of 12mm. Mashmaster should seriously consider making the mill shaft a half inch (12.7mm). This would make it a lot cheaper to motorise.




Cool vid Sam. Glad it went ok. How was the crush?. That right hand side of the chain looks a bit floppy though (not that I would know). Maybe russell up some kind of chain guard/guide?

Cheers
Steve


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## atkinsonr (21/2/09)

Very tidy job there Sammy. I like the level of detail in the finish. 
The custom grain bin with cut out handle and the chain guard are both excellent features!

I've been working on mine today too in this crappy weather, although progress has been a bit slow.

Great work fella!


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## bindi (21/2/09)

Very very nice, chain drive...........Now don't get me wrong, it's nice and power driven, BUT, I am sure I can crush that amount of grain with by hand [and with big arms] almost as fast with the handle.
Wimps.


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## rwmingis (21/2/09)

Sammy,

That is a top notch effort, a good carpenter and a scholar! I think you may have sold me on that drive now. I noticed that you had a bit of chain whip which can cause a bit of noise, may I suggest one of These. It's a vibration damper which should reduce a bit of noise and also prolong the life of the drive train.

Cheers,

Rob


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## samhighley (22/2/09)

bindi said:


> BUT, I am sure I can crush that amount of grain with by hand [and with big arms] almost as fast with the handle.
> Wimps.



And i'm sure I could ride my pushbike down to the HBS and carry the grain home on my back, but it doesn't mean i'm going to


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## Pumpy (22/2/09)

Sammy , That is very inspiring piece of work .

You havent mentioned the electrical work , was it a big job any additional components ? 

is it straightforward to wire this unit ?

Pumpy


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## samhighley (22/2/09)

Brewing Bob said:


> I noticed that you had a bit of chain whip which can cause a bit of noise



Yeah, there is a bit of chain noise. I'm wondering if more chain tension will solve that. The platform that the motor sits on is adjustable up and down via a couple of bolts that hold the platform down, so I might add a bit more tension. Failing that, i'll look into chain tensioners such as the one suggested.


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## samhighley (22/2/09)

Pumpy said:


> You havent mentioned the electrical work , was it a big job any additional components ?



The electrical was the simple part really. It's just two 7.2 amp hour sealed lead acids from Jaycar @ $29.95 each, which should give at least fourty minutes of crushing time based on the previously mentioned current draw of 10 amps.

I will likely look into a power supply at some point in the future, as forgetting to charge the batteries would make a crappy start to a brew day. I'd like to get a good current draw reading first though, and neither of my multimeters are capable of doing the job. Would it draw more or less current at 24 volt opposed to 12 volt, as the earlier mentioned current reading (AndrewQLD?) was based on 12v.


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## Sully (22/2/09)

bindi said:


> Very very nice, chain drive...........Now don't get me wrong, it's nice and power driven, BUT, I am sure I can crush that amount of grain with by hand [and with big arms] almost as fast with the handle.
> Wimps.





Sammy said:


> And i'm sure I could ride my pushbike down to the HBS and carry the grain home on my back, but it doesn't mean i'm going to



besides it isnt as cool... as well as MORE POWER!!! <insert Tim Taylor grunt>


Top notch job Sammy. :super:


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## samhighley (22/2/09)

This is how I solved the problem of grain entering the synchronising gears of the mill:





I took a piece of pine and drilled two holes using a hole-saw the same diameter as the mill rollers. I then trimmed it up with the drop saw until it fit nice and snug:




It was then mounted to a piece of aluminium. The fit is nice and tight, and the pine actually rubs on the rollers a little bit, but I figure this will soon go away 




I think a critical factor in any gear guard design is to make sure that if for some reason the guard becomes dislodged, it cannot jam the rollers.


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## atkinsonr (22/2/09)

Sammy said:


> Would it draw more or less current at 24 volt opposed to 12 volt, as the earlier mentioned current reading (AndrewQLD?) was based on 12v.



Hi Sammy.
While there are other variables, I think you can get a pretty good approximation using the power equation, P = IV.

Basically, let's assume you are drawing 10A (I expect at 24V you are drawing less than this, you'll need to measure it to see).

P = IV
P = 10A x 24V = 240 Watts

So to generate the same power at 12V

P = IV ... so... 

P / V = I

240W / 12V = 20A

Depending on how much load your mill is putting on the motor, I expect your actual values will be less.
Also, have you measured the voltage? It's possible that your batteries aren't exactly producing 2 x 12V.
Finally, managing the chain tension as Rob suggested will improve the efficiency of the system a little by smoothing out the peak loads (Current spikes).

I'm in awe of your carpentry!

Hope this helps!

Richy


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## porky (22/2/09)

Sammy said:


> Would it draw more or less current at 24 volt opposed to 12 volt, as the earlier mentioned current reading (AndrewQLD?) was based on 12v.



Mate,
It will draw half the current (amps) with 24 volt instead of 12 volt.
volts X amps = watts

Very nice job on the whole set-up.
Well done. I wouldn't be too worried about the chain wobble on the no load side. Won't hurt anything, unless it is too noisy for you.

Cheers,
Bud


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## samhighley (22/2/09)

budwiser said:


> It will draw half the current (amps) with 24 volt instead of 12 volt.



Sweet, well that means i'll get over an hour of constant milling time


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## samhighley (23/2/09)

For anyone interested, here is the template I made for making the motor mounting plate:

View attachment Oatley_motor_mount.pdf


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## samhighley (1/3/09)

I filled the hopper right to the top the other day for a Strong Scotch Ale, which was about 10kg of grain in the hopper.

Started up fine and crushed the whole lot without skipping a beat.

Glorious.

I now realise that my output bin is a little small, so sometime in the future i'll likely make it bigger.


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## Back Yard Brewer (20/5/09)

Sammy said:


> Yeah, there is a bit of chain noise. I'm wondering if more chain tension will solve that. The platform that the motor sits on is adjustable up and down via a couple of bolts that hold the platform down, so I might add a bit more tension. Failing that, i'll look into chain tensioners such as the one suggested.




Currently exploring various options to drive my millmaster.

Would a V belt system be a better course of action instead of a chain? If there was a foriegn object in the grain at least the belt might slip for safety and not drag through something that could not be crushed. 

BYB


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## samhighley (21/5/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Would a V belt system be a better course of action instead of a chain? If there was a foriegn object in the grain at least the belt might slip for safety and not drag through something that could not be crushed.



I discussed this with my engineer, and he pointed out that the motor will stall long before it pulls something solid through the rollers.


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## spog (23/5/09)

Sammy said:


> I'm running at 24 volt via two lead-acid batteries hooked up in series. The large gear is 40 teeth and the small is 10 for a 4 to 1 reduction, which means the mill is running at around 80 rpm. As the video demonstrates there is more than enough torque to handle the crush.
> 
> I had the 40 tooth sprocket custom machined down to the shaft size of 12mm. Mashmaster should seriously consider making the mill shaft a half inch (12.7mm). This would make it a lot cheaper to motorise.



sammy,can you tell me where you got the chain sprocket from,i have a mashmaster too and am trying to motorize it,your set up looks the go.
i guess i could get a sprocket with a smaller diameter centre then have it machined out to 12mm to suit the mashmaster...cheers..spog.....


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## spog (23/5/09)

spog said:


> sammy,can you tell me where you got the chain sprocket from,i have a mashmaster too and am trying to motorize it,your set up looks the go.
> i guess i could get a sprocket with a smaller diameter centre then have it machined out to 12mm to suit the mashmaster...cheers..spog.....



ahh i forgot the most important part,with the mashmaster having a 4mm keyway how have you fixed the chain sprocket in position.....cheers....again.spog......


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## BennyBrewster (23/5/09)

Looking at the makes me wanna back my dirtbike up to the mill hook the chain up and see what 60hp can do to grain husks.


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## samhighley (24/5/09)

spog said:


> ahh i forgot the most important part,with the mashmaster having a 4mm keyway how have you fixed the chain sprocket in position.....cheers....again.spog......



I had the sprocket custom machined. They also added the 4mm keyway.


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## Greg Lawrence (24/5/09)

Hey Sammy
I dont think that those batterys are going to last too long if you run the mill for a long period of time.
I use those 12VDC 7A/Hr batterys at work for backup on power failure to 12VDC security equipment. They are designed more to deliver a small current for a long period. Eg, 1A for 5 Hrs. Although they are 7A/Hr, voltage drops too low after about 5 hours).
IMHO, you would be better off using a car battery which is designed to deliver high current.
Feel the batterys after your next crush. If they are getting hot, you are going to have problems.

Gregor


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## mash head (24/5/09)

spog said:


> sammy,can you tell me where you got the chain sprocket from,i have a mashmaster too and am trying to motorize it,your set up looks the go.
> i guess i could get a sprocket with a smaller diameter centre then have it machined out to 12mm to suit the mashmaster...cheers..spog.....




For such things I would look to chains & accessories in torrensville. They sell a wide range of transmission chain ,sprockets and key way steel. I would be very supprised if they couldnt help. Happy engineering
Cheers Greg


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## samhighley (24/5/09)

I'd be surprised if they can help with a stock item.

The Millmaster has a 12mm shaft, which is *very* odd.


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