# No Chill Cube Oaking



## Tony (29/7/12)

interested in peoples thoughts on this.

I'm thinking if chucking some rum barrel chips into a cube of porter and letting it sit like this for a month or 2, and then ferment.

I'm wondering if its the alcohol that pulls the oak character and if it will work in an unfermented wort?

cheers


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## bum (29/7/12)

I'd also wonder to what degree active fermentation might scrub the oak/rum flavours.

Interesting idea, Tony. Keep us informed.


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## Hippy (29/7/12)

Not really sure about how the chips work but with barrells it's extremes of temperature that give spirits such as bourboun the oak character. When the barrells experience high temps they absorb the liquid into the oak which is then sqeezed back out when temps plummet down. The difference between a bottle of maker's mark and Jim beam is simply where the barrells are stored in the warehouse. The barrels stored high up experience the greater extremes of temp and become smoother and more flavoursome than there counterparts stored on lower racks. Obviously they are given more time to age as well.
I've got no idea if or how this relates to oak chips in porter though.


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## dmac80 (29/7/12)

I'd imagine you'd have trouble controlling the amount of oak flavour you get with this method, i cold conditioned a beer on oak chips and racked it off when i felt it was right.

From what Hippy said it may have been better for me to just sit it in the shed, rather than cold condition it on the oak.

I'm sure which ever way you do it, it'll turn out a nice beer


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## Tony (29/7/12)

Hippy said:


> When the barrells experience high temps they absorb the liquid into the oak which is then sqeezed back out when temps plummet down.



Hmmm....... sounds like no chill Rum oaked porter heaven.

rack it onto the chips hot and leave it for a couple weeks in the cool garage, see how it goes.

Only one way to find out!

and if it works, it saves the risk of infection while the beer is sitting in secondary on some dirty timber chunks.

Now to try and work out how much timber to use! I have 100g, i think i will use it all


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## crozdog (29/7/12)

interesting experiment tony.

I can't offer any advice, but can say Stu & I made a ripper stout a few years back, half of it we fortified with some vodka that i'd soaked in JD barrel chips for a month. Turned out great - had a bit of kick as well as the oak;-)


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (29/7/12)

Hey tony, i have looked into this aswell (not no chill, but secondary), and some of the advice i was given was to toast the chips in a dry frypan and soak them in rum/bourban/etc......... 

The soaking may work better in secondary, but i would consider toasting them then adding them to the cube.


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## Tony (29/7/12)

Toasting makes sense.

I have got a 1/4 bottle of bundy thats been sitting under the bar for the last 3 years because i don't drink it (any more)

Might toast the chips up and put them in a jar with the rum while hot, let sit for a couple weeks till i make the porter, drain, add chips to the cube and discard the bundy


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (29/7/12)

dont you dare discard the bundy............ Post it to me and i'll drink it! 

:icon_offtopic: My time away in Dalby re-united me with the long-lost friend. Dunno if it is the best or worst thing yet but by-god I missed her! :wub:


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## Tony (29/7/12)

haha i may keep it for a xmas cake or something.

I have a love for single malt whiskey's and bundy dont cut it for me no more im afraid. And it makes me a bit punchy, so i steer clear of it these days.


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## Tony (29/7/12)

Just heated a thick copper based SS pan and toasted off the chips until they were really hot, not quite smoking but fragrant timber aromas filled the kitchen.












Put them in the jar and tipped in the rum.... it hissed and fizzed as i put on the lid.






Its cooled now, and it smells AMAZING!

and what rum that hasnt been soaked up into the timber had gone the color or tooheys old.

Im getting a bit excited about this!


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## raven19 (29/7/12)

I was thinking you might be going bigger cubes - and thickness of the wood may be an issue re harboring nasties (as such I would be reluctant adding to wort). But finer (smaller) chips like that look like a good alternative fella!


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## barls (29/7/12)

i did this with this years sour brown. but i used medium plus cubes. 
tasted wonderful.
id use cubes as they are there for a longer time and give a rounder flavour.
where as chips tend to be a quicker and harsher flavour.


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## Thirsty Boy (30/7/12)

I've had a beer where the brewer oaked the HLT - distinctly oakey indeed it was. I dont think you'd need to age it in there, just let it cool overnight and go. might be an idea to be fairly conservative with the amount... ireckon it'll give a "lot" of oak character in the cube.


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## tipsy (30/7/12)

I did a RIS with 100g of chips in the secondary for a week and it was plenty, maybe too much.
Time will tell.

+1 to the conservative amount.


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## Tony (30/7/12)

ok will make a 35 liter batch and split the chips between 2 17 liter cubes.

One will be fermented fairly fast and the other can sit for a while to see what difference it makes.

only one way to find out hey.

I must say........ the jar of chips and rum smells good


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## bradsbrew (30/7/12)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I've had a beer where the brewer oaked the HLT - distinctly oakey indeed it was. I dont think you'd need to age it in there, just let it cool overnight and go. might be an idea to be fairly conservative with the amount... ireckon it'll give a "lot" of oak character in the cube.



What style was that thirsty?

Tony this is an awsome idea, I,ve done the oak chips soaked in jamacian rum and added to a keg of stout but I got more rum than oak. In the cube makes sense once someone suggests it. Could work in a few styles. 

Cheers


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## manticle (30/7/12)

Tony said:


> I must say........ the jar of chips and rum smells good



Have a sip on the bundy when you go to use the oak just to surprise yourself.

Like you I prefer a decent single malt for my brown spirits. I have soaked french oak in a cheaper whisky before (covered, in fridge, for a week) and used the chips in a beer. New character of the whisky was delicious. Much darker in colour, distinctly oaky.


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## [email protected] (30/7/12)

REALLY interesting idea. 

Looking forward to hearing results of experiment.


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## Tony (30/7/12)

Oh.... and i do plan to drain the rum from the chips before adding......... I will save the dribble for Wallace


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## Tony (11/8/12)

Ok........... so it begins.

the barrel chips have soaked up all the rum and almost doubled in volume. they smell great, but very intense so i will exercise caution with use as recommended.. 

I'm thinking of adding 100g of the rum soaked chips (about 1/3) to a cube, and leaving the other cube un-oaked so i can taste the difference. Also if it doesn't work out, i have only messed up half the batch. Going to ferment them side by side.

The porter is mashing as i type. The special roast smells AMAZING in the mash, with the brown and pale choc malt. Going to add the darker chocolate malt at mash out to keep it smooth.

Rum Oaked Porter

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 34.00 Wort Size (L): 34.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.50
Anticipated OG: 1.054 Plato: 13.24
Anticipated EBC: 58.9
Anticipated IBU: 35.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
80.0 6.00 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 5
5.3 0.40 kg. Special Roast America 1.036 100
5.3 0.40 kg. TF Brown Malt UK 1.033 160
5.3 0.40 kg. TF Pale Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 550
4.0 0.30 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 936



Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Wye Target Pellet 10.50 35.4 75 min.


Yeast
-----

1469


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## Tony (11/8/12)

2 x 17 liter cubes filled with 1.054 porter.

I dropped a challenger plug in the kettle as i turned off the heat....... give a bit of complexity against the ,malt and rum/oak.

I put 100g of chips in one cube, 50g of chips in the other.

Leaves me some for the next porter if it works out


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## Tony (11/9/12)

Well............. its a screaming success!












100g cube and its delightful!

cheers


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## sponge (11/9/12)

You, good sir, have tempted me to do a little something like this for my next porter.

Real glad it turned out well for you mate


Sponge


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## AndrewQLD (11/9/12)

Looks fantastic Tony, I imagine you have a decent body on that beer to balance the Oak?


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## Tony (11/9/12)

It went from 10.54 down to 1.010 with 1469, so its quaffable but very malty.

I'm not a fan of "chewy" beers and the lack of carb kind of thins it a bit, but yeah its got a finer body than me 

The oak has come through as a sweet slightly oily aroma and hints of flavor in the background.

Its not overly oaky, the rum sweetness has blended well with the toasted and roasted malts to add a fine complexity.

I have another cube where i only used 50g of the chips, but im going to let it sit for a few months to see what it does to the beer.

Its in no way harsh, or acrid, or overly oaked......... in fact i feel i could have used more.

cheers


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## Amber Fluid (11/9/12)

Tony, this may be a silly question but, did you add the chips to the cube whilst the cube was still hot?... I am assuming you did.


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## Aydos (11/9/12)

You get seriously good efficiencies, how do you brew?


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## manticle (11/9/12)

Might have to have a crack a this Tony.

Sounds and looks good.


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## Tony (11/9/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> Tony, this may be a silly question but, did you add the chips to the cube whilst the cube was still hot?... I am assuming you did.



Yes...... put them in he cube and racked boiling hot wort onto them. They were then tipped into the fermenter as well.




aydos said:


> You get seriously good efficiencies, how do you brew?



I brew how i brew mate....... nothing more to say.

I get 80 to 85% eff from my 3v HERMS system, and my dodgy old esky that gravity feeds to a cut out keggle.




manticle said:


> Might have to have a crack a this Tony.
> 
> Sounds and looks good.



It is...... and i still owe you a couple bottles.... i havnt forgotten


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## raven19 (11/9/12)

Tony, any noticable difference between the 100gm and 50g chip versions?

Photos look sensational.


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## Tony (11/9/12)

Dont know mate..... tje 50 gm cube is still a cube, but i dont think there will be.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (11/9/12)

Looks bloody delicious mate.


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## Tony (11/11/12)

Fermented the 2nd cube after letting it sit on the oak for about 3 months. The first cube was on 100g of chips for about 10 days or so. This one was on 50g of 3 months.

This one is better.

It has the same flavors, but smoother and rounder and more balanced.

To be honest this is one of the best beers i have ever had...... let alone made. I dont think it would be as good on Co2 as it is on a 30/70 smooth pour nitrogen mix, but the balance is perfect.

Aroma of sweet rum and oak, layered with chocolate, toffee and coffee, smooth and bitter sweet.

I really think the rum and the oak has balanced the chocolate and brown malt well to make it something wonderful.

People.............. if you like you porters, stouts, bitters etc.............. get a nitro bottle, nitro reg and a stout tap.

You will never look back!

PS..... this was in primary fermenter 30 min before this photo was taken!


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## mwd (11/11/12)

Congratulations Tony brilliant photos looks and sounds like a classic brew. Makes me salivate just looking at the pictures.
Glad it was worth the effort.

Funny my bottled stout has a brown head.


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## punkin (12/11/12)

Have you tried the Oak Dominoes yet Tony?


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## Batz (12/11/12)

I did just what you described Tony, I used 50gm in 25lt, toasted the oak chips, soaked in rum etc. I made a oaky, smokie, porter and it turned out fantastic.
Thanks for the inspiration, I'll be brewing this agian for sure. :beer: 


Batz


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## bignath (12/11/12)

Tony said:


> Fermented the 2nd cube after letting it sit on the oak for about 3 months. The first cube was on 100g of chips for about 10 days or so. This one was on 50g of 3 months.
> 
> This one is better.
> 
> ...




HOLY SHIT THAT LOOKS DELICIOUS!


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## Tony (12/11/12)

Batz said:


> I did just what you described Tony, I used 50gm in 25lt, toasted the oak chips, soaked in rum etc. I made a oaky, smokie, porter and it turned out fantastic.
> Thanks for the inspiration, I'll be brewing this agian for sure. :beer:
> 
> 
> Batz



Great stuff Batz...... glad it worked out for you. It certanly is a great way to get oak into a beer without majour risk of infection from soaking it in secondary for ages.

My cubes can tend to sit around in the garage for months before i get to them anyway, so why not use this time to do some good.



Big Nath said:


> HOLY SHIT THAT LOOKS DELICIOUS!




haha........ it is


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## Forever Wort (22/9/13)

This thread is ... inspiring!


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## IsonAd (28/11/14)

Dragging up an old thread bu am wondering if anyone else has tried this or Tony if you've done this again? I've just received some oak dominoes and am considering a barleywine, maybe ususinthis method


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## OBeck (11/2/16)

Again, dragging up an old thread, but this looks AWESOME! I'm looking at brewing 4 or 5 beers for my wedding next year and reckon this could be one of them. I don't have a keg so I'm not too sure about carbonation, can you guys offer any recommendation on how best to carbonate a stout or porter like this? (That head is making me salivate!!!).


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## manticle (2/4/16)

Belated reply to the above - just prime as normal but at a lower rate. For stout/porter, I'd be looking at 1.8 vol, no higher than 2 if you prefer more fizz.
I gas my stout kegs at about 120 kpa for 24 hours then just top up the headspace when the pour slows. Also not served cold. 10+ degrees for me. 

Just kegged a stout originally cubed with a handful of toasted Glen Moray soaked french oak chips.
I ferment in the cube so oak remained during fermentation.
Beautiful stout, distinctly oak/red wine and vanilla.

Be good to see how it ages. Oak and beer are slightly distinct from one another atm, thinking time will help it integrate but I can vouch for the NC oak. Been meaning to try it for years (well ever since reading this thread)


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## GalBrew (16/5/16)

manticle said:


> Belated reply to the above - just prime as normal but at a lower rate. For stout/porter, I'd be looking at 1.8 vol, no higher than 2 if you prefer more fizz.
> I gas my stout kegs at about 120 kpa for 24 hours then just top up the headspace when the pour slows. Also not served cold. 10+ degrees for me.
> 
> Just kegged a stout originally cubed with a handful of toasted Glen Moray soaked french oak chips.
> ...


So what was your oaking rate into the cube Manticle?


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## manticle (16/5/16)

Handful of chips,toasted, soaked in single malt for a few days.
Pretty rough measurements I'm afraid.


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## barls (16/5/16)

sounds about the same as me. i used a handful of med+ hungarian in a few things. works well.
i have a rough idea it was about 40 grams per cube.


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