# Barley prices set to rise.



## wide eyed and legless (29/10/18)

So barley prices set to go up due to global warming it's time to let the GM boffins start playing around with barley, wheat they have done a brilliant job, some places that couldn't even grow wheat are now getting 2 crops a year, and it takes around 10 years to GM a species so it would be an ideal time to start on barley.


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## DU99 (29/10/18)

any excuse


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## wide eyed and legless (29/10/18)

Not an excuse, fair dinkum, our barley (brewers) depends on the right amount of nitrogen the farmer puts into the soil, to much and it is stock feed. If they can GM barley I would assume they can cover all the bases, (hopefully) to produce a good quality malting barley.
https://www.brewsnews.com.au/2018/08/24/drought-and-soaring-grain-prices-an-industry-perspective/


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## JDW81 (29/10/18)

I though climate change was a NASA conspiracy?


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## wide eyed and legless (29/10/18)

No, Carl Sagan started it. God bless him.


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## MHB (29/10/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> So barley prices set to go up due to global warming it's time to let the GM boffins start playing around with barley, wheat they have done a brilliant job, some places that couldn't even grow wheat are now getting 2 crops a year, and it takes around 10 years to GM a species so it would be an ideal time to start on barley.


I'm not denying the effects of global warming, nor the potential benefits of GM (nor the potential risks), what makes me think you're being a bit of a dick the blithe causal connection between barley prices and planning the future.
If you were in the least aware of the commercial realities you would know the cost of barley isn't anywhere near as important a contributor to the cost of making beer as say Excise, Energy, Water/Waste disposal, Labour, Plant Amortization... Truth is Malt doesn't make the top 5 costs, barely into the top 10.
If you want to save money in a brewery there are smarter ways than agitating for GM that might pay off in a decade, things like energy and water savings, smarter disposal waste, CO2 recycling...

GM will I am sure be a part of all our futures, for good or ill, I think its important that we look at the possibilities carefully and thoughtfully - not just some knee jerk reflex, based on what looks like a BS excuse!
Mark


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## wide eyed and legless (29/10/18)

MHB said:


> I'm not denying the effects of global warming, nor the potential benefits of GM (nor the potential risks), what makes me think you're being a bit of a dick the blithe causal connection between barley prices and planning the future.
> If you were in the least aware of the commercial realities you would know the cost of barley isn't anywhere near as important a contributor to the cost of making beer as say Excise, Energy, Water/Waste disposal, Labour, Plant Amortization... Truth is Malt doesn't make the top 5 costs, barely into the top 10.
> If you want to save money in a brewery there are smarter ways than agitating for GM that might pay off in a decade, things like energy and water savings, smarter disposal waste, CO2 recycling...
> 
> ...


Commercial realities are no concern of mine, I pay no excise on the beer I make, I pay no energy costs to the beer I make, being energy self sufficient through solar panels, what I do pay for are ingredients, bottles, kegs and casks are reusable no extra costs there.
As far as I am aware there are NO potential risks with GM crops, though plenty of benefits, with an ever growing population on this planet the future will be in GM crops.
But back on topic there is growing concern about the future of barley harvests, world wide, easy to call bullshit, but I would like to be shown it is bullshit, just to put my mind at ease.


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## MHB (29/10/18)

Well they should be - even if just because its large commercial interests that will be funding the research you say you want.
Just looking at malt pricing, Barley is about 20% of the cost of malt, nearly all the rest is water/waste/energy...
Plenty of other ways to improve the bottom line other than a spurious argument about GM.

I'm not even against GM, it will I believe be important to all our futures just make a sensible argument, look at the pros and cons, and be aware that the ability to manipulate genes can be abused (even weaponised). Name any field of endeavour that cant be abused.
Personally I would be just as happy to see people GM'ed so they produce far fewer children, could put up a pretty fair argument that there are way too many of them.
Mark


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## Redreuben (29/10/18)

My biggest issue with gm isn’t the technology it’s the people using it. 
I’d rather see better landcare and management then just reaching for a technology that can eke out the last remaining usefulness of degraded land. 
Industrial broad scale agriculture is little more than agriponics now, everything is added in the “soil” is just somewhere to put the seed. 
Yeah I know, nobody cares as long the cheap food keeps flowing so we can afford to throw 40% in the bin. 
Rant over. 
In case your wondering I describe myself as a right wing greenie. Make of that what you will. 
Old saying. 
“Men get wisdom when they have exhausted all the alternatives”


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## laxation (30/10/18)

Redreuben said:


> My biggest issue with gm isn’t the technology it’s the people using it.
> I’d rather see better landcare and management then just reaching for a technology that can eke out the last remaining usefulness of degraded land


pretty sure that isn't at all how it works, and without gm foods we'd all essentially starve. if not now, then in the not too distant future

GM hops could be interesting... apparently it takes like 10 years to breed a new kind of hop, because of trying to find the right flavour/aroma but one that also grows fast enough and doesnt get destroyed by pests - with gm hops we could have a MASSIVE variety of experimental stuff to pick from


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## JDW81 (30/10/18)

Redreuben said:


> I’d rather see better landcare and management then just reaching for a technology that can eke out the last remaining usefulness of degraded land.
> Industrial broad scale agriculture is little more than agriponics now, everything is added in the “soil” is just somewhere to put the seed.



Yeah, that's the ideal, however Monsanto et al don't make any money out of better land management.


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## wide eyed and legless (30/10/18)

Gm foods is not always about money, it is about crops which can sustain in a harsh environment, less pesticides, helping the 3rd world to grow their own food. But the other thing is if the crops of barley are not giving a good enough return, whats to stop the farmers turning to a more profitable crop? There are plenty of other crops which can give the farmers a higher return for their endeavors, I was reading recently that a Japanese brewery has start using peas in the beer to cut down on the import tariff of the barley.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...global-beer-shortage/articleshow/66235272.cms

https://www.producer.com/2004/04/japanese-pea-beer-opens-new-market/


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## Redreuben (30/10/18)

Well that was interesting especially the bit about not using soy because of gm.


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## Markbeer (30/10/18)

The problems the world has isn't GM, available land, resources etc.

It's a people problem.

Google Ethiopia population, a good example. No point producing more grain, the population continues growing exponentially feeding from that grain etc.

Must be too tiresome for them to pull out. Sounds crude, but that's really all it is.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> No, Carl Sagan started it. God bless him.



Actually Marget Thatcher started in her effort to demonize coal and close the British coal mines, which she was quite successful at, Australia is only picking it up now, 30+ years on.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

MHB said:


> Personally I would be just as happy to see people GM'ed so they produce far fewer children, could put up a pretty fair argument that there are way too many of them.
> Mark


So are you happy to remove yourself from the problem?


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I was reading recently that a Japanese brewery has start using peas in the beer to cut down on the import tariff of the barley.
> https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...global-beer-shortage/articleshow/66235272.cms
> 
> https://www.producer.com/2004/04/japanese-pea-beer-opens-new-market/



Yep that's why we use rice, corn oats and barley grains in various beers.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

Redreuben said:


> Well that was interesting especially the bit about not using soy because of gm.


 Soy is the most useless shit in the world, unless you want to grow breasts.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

Markbeer said:


> The problems the world has isn't GM, available land, resources etc.
> 
> It's a people problem.
> 
> ...



No it's a greed problem, the earth grows enough food to feed everyone but we throw it away and don't distribute it where it is needed. By the way I am not a socialist or a greeny


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

Oh I seem to have made a lot of posts on this thread. Sorry I have just tapped my latest ordinary bitter which is far from ordinary.

And for just the record, Thomas Tallis bore no man malice, except an organist called Ken, who played his music badly, now and then.

I think I will retire now.


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## MHB (30/10/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> Snip
> I think I will retire now.


Good! Posting whilst pissed is a good way to look like a complete prat.


Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> So are you happy to remove yourself from the problem?


Well I choose not to add to the growing population. Its a pretty well established fact that any organism will bread until it consumes all the available resources, always results in a massive population crash, often in local extinction.
We are perhaps the only species with the option to prevent this fate, if we can use intelligence to overrule instinct.
Mark


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

MHB said:


> Good! Posting whilst pissed is a good way to look like a complete prat.
> 
> Well I choose not to add to the growing population. Its a pretty well established fact that any organism will bread until it consumes all the available resources, always results in a massive population crash, often in local extinction.
> We are perhaps the only species with the option to prevent this fate, if we can use intelligence to overrule instinct.
> Mark



It think the correct term is twat.

Not only can you prevent this fate you can improve the survival prospects of the species by removing yourself from the system.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (30/10/18)

Doh


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## The Mack (30/10/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> It think the correct term is twat.



No, I think the term prat could not be more apt.


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## Markbeer (31/10/18)

The earth can now, but if the population keeps growing at the rate it has it won't. 




Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> No it's a greed problem, the earth grows enough food to feed everyone but we throw it away and don't distribute it where it is needed. By the way I am not a socialist or a greeny


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## JDW81 (31/10/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> Soy is the most useless shit in the world, unless you want to grow breasts.



I eat a lot of soy products and don't have breasts. There are far more useless things in this world than soy, thats for sure.

JD


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## altone (31/10/18)

I'm actually not a liker of GM foods and especially not 1 organization owning over half the food crop seeds like Monsanto does.

But you guys are all too late - this from mid last year: and the trials started in 2014
https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/genetic-modification/what-new-gm-crops

And the CSIRO had an earlier licence to release GM barley but I haven't looked up what they were planning on doing.


Here's an explanatory edit on my anti GM ness.
I'm ok with new better strains of foods being developed that are pest resistant and perhaps crop heavier so farmers can keep farming.
I'm not ok with a corporation then taking ownership of it and being in a position of controlling what everyone grows.
I think everyone should stop planting lawns and start planting herbs and vegetables so they can provide some of their own fresh food.
I plant mainly heirloom vegetables to maintain some biodiversity and guess what I can collect the seeds and use them next year.
Ok I let my greenie out of the closet - I'll close the door now


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## Redreuben (31/10/18)

Remember Monsanto in Canada “their” pollen blew on to neighbouring farms so they sued them for “stealing” their “property. 
Bullshit.


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## captain crumpet (31/10/18)

learn something about population growth


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## Redreuben (31/10/18)

Great vid


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (31/10/18)

captain crumpet said:


> learn something about population growth




Hmm Germans and population control, why does that ring alarm bells?


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (31/10/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> Hmm Germans and population control, why does that ring alarm bells?




Ok he's not a kraut

I'm proud to have four successful children and five lovely grandchildren, still hoping for more.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (31/10/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> It think the correct term is twat.
> 
> Not only can you prevent this fate you can improve the survival prospects of the species by removing yourself from the system.


So did you do it, it's over 24 hours without you posting?


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## Redreuben (31/10/18)

Lol, when I joined AHB, I didn’t realise it came with entertainment.


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## captain crumpet (31/10/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> So did you do it, it's over 24 hours without you posting?


sort your life out gandu


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## YAPN (1/11/18)

Markbeer said:


> The earth can now, but if the population keeps growing at the rate it has it won't.


That is true.

But it collides with another truth...You just ain't gonna stop people from rooting.


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## ShonkytonkBrewer (1/11/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> So barley prices set to go up due to global warming it's time to let the GM boffins start playing around with barley, wheat they have done a brilliant job, some places that couldn't even grow wheat are now getting 2 crops a year, and it takes around 10 years to GM a species so it would be an ideal time to start on barley.


Have things gone too quiet for you over in the kegking/kegland threads?


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## sp0rk (1/11/18)

ShonkytonkBrewer said:


> Have things gone too quiet for you over in the kegking/kegland threads?


Remember when sponsors stuck to the rules and didn't have to be called out for their bullshit?
Oh wait, no you wouldn't...


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## themonkeysback (1/11/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> So did you do it, it's over 24 hours without you posting?



Are you honestly encouraging someone to kill themself?

I don't think prat is the correct term. ******* idiot maybe.


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## sp0rk (1/11/18)

Redreuben said:


> Remember Monsanto in Canada “their” pollen blew on to neighbouring farms so they sued them for “stealing” their “property.
> Bullshit.


Percy Schmeiser willingly and knowlingly cultivated a patented canola seed that had spread to his farm
He didn't just have it sitting on his farm and then was sued for it being there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc_v_Schmeiser
Don't believe the bullshit spouted by Mercola et al.


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## altone (1/11/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> Ok he's not a kraut
> 
> I'm proud to have four successful children and five lovely grandchildren, still hoping for more.



No he was Swedish and a smart fellow, he's no longer part of the overpopulation issue though.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your kids, you should be!
Even the one that doesn't turn out so well - oh that's just my family - joking.

He understood that changes take time, education and assistance to happen though and can't be pushed down peoples throats.

Some say if we all went vegan we could feed twice as many people.
Well if it happened quickly where would all those extra grains and vegetables come from?
Most land used to produce meat isn't suited to high crop production, you can't just switch.

There's a push for more self reliance and local buying of foods which i do see as a great positive.
Those who wish to reduce their meat intake can help the situation too.
I've roughly halved my red meat consumption but there's no way I'll ever cut it out unless I simply can no longer afford it.

If those of us who can, try to reduce our footprint by growing our own, buying local or at least Australian when able, repairing, recycling, reusing and repurposing, it all eases the pressure
on a world with a population that is inevitably on the rise.

I shall now step down from the soapbox and hand it to our next speaker. 

Oh and @sp0rk you are right there, but "a patented canola seed" I just can't fathom how a patent can be given on a mainly naturally occurring item and certainly have issue with corporate ownership of food crop seeds in any way shape or form.
Sure, they modified it, but I'm not allowed to save and reuse the seeds from the crop that grew from their seeds? Big issue there.


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## ShonkytonkBrewer (1/11/18)

sp0rk said:


> Remember when sponsors stuck to the rules and didn't have to be called out for their bullshit?
> Oh wait, no you wouldn't...


But I do remember that childhood story about a troll that lived under a bridge...


Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> So did you do it, it's over 24 hours without you posting?


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## altone (1/11/18)

ShonkytonkBrewer said:


> But I do remember that childhood story about a troll that lived under a bridge...


I really liked that movie Troll Bridge.


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## sp0rk (1/11/18)

altone said:


> Oh and @sp0rk you are right there, but "a patented canola seed" I just can't fathom how a patent can be given on a mainly naturally occurring item and certainly have issue with corporate ownership of food crop seeds in any way shape or form.
> Sure, they modified it, but I'm not allowed to save and reuse the seeds from the crop that grew from their seeds? Big issue there.


I agree there are some big ethics issues there, but when you buy those seeds, you are agreeing to a contract to pay a fee to grow it
Don't like it, grow something else
Again, I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's how it works


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (1/11/18)

themonkeysback said:


> Are you honestly encouraging someone to kill themself?
> 
> I don't think prat is the correct term. ******* idiot maybe.



No of course I'm not suggesting he top himself, but if you think de-population is a solution you have to ask who will be removed


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## MHB (1/11/18)

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> It think the correct term is twat.
> Not only can you prevent this fate you can improve the survival prospects of the species by removing yourself from the system.





Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> So did you do it, it's over 24 hours without you posting?





Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> No of course I'm not suggesting he top himself, but if you think de-population is a solution you have to ask who will be removed


I don't believe you! Doubt many other people do either.
Mark


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