# Caustic Cleaning The Brewery



## sav (21/11/10)

I am going to do a caustic soda brewery once over, How long does it take to start to hook in and how much do you use .What about copper and brass is it safe and my plate chiller thanks.

Hope screwy reads on hes a soda man.

sav


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## InCider (21/11/10)




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## Bribie G (21/11/10)

Haha

If your local wholesaler stocks this stuff (I got mine from Northern Cleaning Supplies at Morayfield, twenty bucks for five litres) then it's 20% caustic soda, saves you blinding yourself mixing up the powder although that's good for dissolving bodies in drums h34r: 

Directions are "85ml per 5L water for neglected pipes". I just got it for cleaning lines as I don't have brewery plumbing as such. Don't know how it would go with brass etc. - others would know. Rinse well B)


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## roller997 (21/11/10)

I believe that caustic soda is perfect for stainless steel as it passivates the stainless - I leave it in my fermenter overnight and the solution I use would be a touch stronger than what BribieG is using. I do rinse throroughly with water and sanitize with a no rinse solution before using the fermenter.
In terms of using it on brass and copper - It would not be a good idea as caustic soda reacts with those metals. It is perfect if you are using it on stainless parts but I would not let it touch anything that is copper / brass.

Cheers

Roller


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## Thirsty Boy (21/11/10)

And for Christ's sake wear eye protection... That stuff rips into the fats in your eyeballs like a bull terrier into a kitten. If you don't have safety glasses...and proper ones too - get some before you start to play. One errant splash and it could easily be goodbye eyesight.

It works better hot, say 75-80C, and get whatever it is as clean as you can before using the caustic,, so rinse off anything that will rinse off, then the caustic can get to the tough soil.


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## fraser_john (21/11/10)

Keep a spray bottle with a citric acid mix in it near by, use it as a neutralizer if it does get on your skin!!! I wear safety glasses and a long sleeve shirt whenever I use the stuff.

I use caustic all the time, alternating with nappi san (sod.percarbonate). Usually about 2 tablespoons in 8 litres of water does a good job.


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## drsmurto (22/11/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> And for Christ's sake wear eye protection... That stuff rips into the fats in your eyeballs like a bull terrier into a kitten. If you don't have safety glasses...and proper ones too - get some before you start to play. One errant splash and it could easily be goodbye eyesight.
> 
> It works better hot, say 75-80C, and get whatever it is as clean as you can before using the caustic,, so rinse off anything that will rinse off, then the caustic can get to the tough soil.



Agree 100% with what TB has said re safety but I'll add one extra precaution.

Dissolve solid NaOH (caustic soda) in cold water and once dissolved then heat it. The dissolution of NaOH in H2O is highly exothermic and adding it to hot water is a recipe for boiling/bumping caustic solutions.


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## sav (22/11/10)

Sound pretty dangerous shit to honest thanks for the replies
sav


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## davo4772 (22/11/10)

Sorry, had to post it.







Dave


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## Kingy (28/1/17)

Does anybody still give there brewery a caustic soak. Sounds like a really good thing to give the brewery a once a year soak with. But can't really find a proper mixing rate anywhere. 
I use sodium perc after each brew but a caustic clean sounds like a good idea as long as extreme safety precautions. 
Would caustic do a better job than pbw?


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## billygoat (28/1/17)

I got the idea of a caustic clean from Tidal Pete.
I use a 3% caustic solution once every 6 or so brews.
Gets out a lot more gunk than just using PBW.
I usually use 30 grams of powdered caustic to each litre of water and heat the water up to around 70C. Then pump it through the brewery for 30 mins. Then rinse with 70C water.
Bought the caustic in a 5 Kg bucket from a local cleaning supply shop but it can be bought at Bunnings.
Be careful with it though as it's quite dangerous even at that low strength.

Edited- typo


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## jimmy86 (28/1/17)

Caustic is ideal at a 2% solution at 65degC. So with a 30% solution dilute 1L to 15L water.


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## jimmy86 (28/1/17)

Caustic is ideal at a 2% solution at 65degC. So with a 30% solution dilute 1L to 15L water.




A response so nice I said it twice.


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## malt junkie (28/1/17)

Did one recently, my kit is all SS so no issues with copper or brass. Follow the above safety precautions. Definitely add powered caustic to cold water and then heat.

when I did mine I also did my kegs, I rigged up a recirc through both posts and sprayer up the guts (keg inverted). Did a nice job, however I still needed to strip ball valves to get them spot less. and that was after 4 hours of recir (30 minutes a keg).

I used about 30L water and around 2 cups of caustic (thumb)

Be careful.

cheers


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## wide eyed and legless (28/1/17)

Oxalic acid from Bunnings $30 for 2 kilo (Diggers Rust and Stain remover) cleans up just about anything, don't have to worry about any effects on s/s.


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## TheWiggman (28/1/17)

Is that a typo billygoat? I bought some powdered caustic from a hardware store and the mixing ratio is 60g/l - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/92009-my-score-yesterday/page__view__findpost__p__1397853
As for whether it does a better job than PBW, it does a better job than anything. Completely worth doing every year or so on the brewing gear, not so much required for fermentation equipment unless you're running into troubles.


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## Kingy (28/1/17)

What do you guys do with the liquid after a soak,I'm guessing it's bad for the grass and it's better off down the drain?


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## TheWiggman (28/1/17)

If you work at a water treatment plant you wouldn't agree that it's better down the drain  but yes it will kill grass and little else. Tip it somewhere that isn't visible or if you're a city slicker, down the ol' drain to clean the pipes.


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## malt junkie (28/1/17)

Great concrete cleaner, I did the driveway last time.


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## wobbly (28/1/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Oxalic acid from Bunnings $30 for 2 kilo (Diggers Rust and Stain remover) cleans up just about anything, don't have to worry about any effects on s/s.


At what strength and at what temperature

Wobbly


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## Mardoo (28/1/17)

Why not just neutralise it with a solution of cheap, DILUTED white vinegar?


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## wide eyed and legless (28/1/17)

http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Cons_Rust__Stain_Cleaner_PDS_Apr11.pdf


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## Kingy (28/1/17)

All the mixing rates in this thread are confusing just like all my other research lol.


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## Kingy (28/1/17)

Would 30gms a litre make a 3% solution or doesn't it work like that?


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## Mardoo (28/1/17)

If its weight were 1gm/ml, as is water, then yes. I strongly suspect it's not though. Me, I just follow the directions on the label. The chem-fu is not strong in this one.


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## billygoat (28/1/17)

TheWiggman said:


> Is that a typo billygoat? I bought some powdered caustic from a hardware store and the mixing ratio is 60g/l - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/92009-my-score-yesterday/page__view__findpost__p__1397853
> As for whether it does a better job than PBW, it does a better job than anything. Completely worth doing every year or so on the brewing gear, not so much required for fermentation equipment unless you're running into troubles.


Was a typo, 30 grams per litre not 3.


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## billygoat (28/1/17)

Kingy said:


> Would 30gms a litre make a 3% solution or doesn't it work like that?


It's not going to be exaclty a 3% concentration but you'll find it extremely effective. Sometimes I only use 20 grams per litre, still works fine. 
The 5 kg bucket cost me $15.


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## mb-squared (28/1/17)

Already lots of conflicting info in this thread, and I'm not going to help matters, but this is what I do. After every brew, I add 1/2 cup of caustic soda (aka lye or drano) to ~20L of boiling water in my BK and then pump it through my whole system for 15mins as a pseudo cip. I've got a copper HEX and a copper CFC (both with SS fittings) and haven't ever had a problem. I then chase tap water through the system for a couple mins as a rinse, close it all up and there she sits until my next brew. A few years on now and everything is still clean as new. I swear by it. I also use it to clean my fermenters (50L ss kegs) and serving kegs. For the kegs, I always do a final acid rinse (starsan). As for disposal, it goes down the drain (it is drano, afterall). Good to keep the sewer pipes flowing I reckon.

But you definitely need to have some protective eyewear on when using this stuff. I also use rubber gloves.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (28/1/17)

2% is strong enough for caustic soda cleaning as long as it's hot (>60 oC) and yes 20 g of sodium hydroxide made up to 1 litre in water is exactly 2%.

There is no real need to neutralise it before sending it to drain, wastewater from organic processes (including brewing) is always acidic so the caustic helps neutralise it. In industrial practice alkalisation of the wastewater is generally mandated: the trade waste people will want the pH to be between 6.5 and 8.5.

That being said, if your waste discharges to soil you should think about using potassium hydroxide not sodium, this avoids sodicity problems (plants will preferentially take up the potassium)


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## Kingy (28/1/17)

Well I just done my first clean with this toxic shit and and wow [emoji15] im addicted. As I recirculated through the hlt for a little while and then across to the mash tun and recirculated through the herms for a little while @ 70° then across to the kettle. When I drained it out the water was like a weak cup of [emoji477]️ with a few brown floaters in it. I'll be definately doing this more often even tho I look funny with all my safety gear on, gumboots gloves clear safety glasses. Glad I had my gumboots on as when I changed hoses I got some on my boots. Cheers fellas. 
Oh I used 30gms a litre.


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## /// (1/2/17)

Ahh the fork in the road between commercial brewers and home brewers. Caustic cleaning.

2% hot caustic for 30 mins, cold water flush, peracetic acid sanitize 10 mins with all valves closed.

Most liquid caustic is 50% water, so 4l total per 100l gets you close enough. Avoid pearl caustic, always finds your eyes. 

Phosphoric based cleaners and sanitisers work, just not as good as the above.


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## /// (1/2/17)

Ahh the fork in the road between commercial brewers and home brewers. Caustic cleaning.

2% hot caustic for 30 mins, cold water flush, peracetic acid sanitize 10 mins with all valves closed.

Most liquid caustic is 50% water, so 4l total per 100l gets you close enough. Avoid pearl caustic, always finds your eyes. 

Phosphoric based cleaners and sanitisers work, just not as good as the above.


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## Jack of all biers (18/3/17)

Caustic cleaning has been around for some time in home brewing. As has the 2% ratio, second post from 2008 @ 200gm for 10 Litres.


EDIT - Additional warning about being careful with adding the caustic to cold water and protecting the eyes, face and skin. This shit really is dangerous. When forensic chemists, put on the safety gear, close the splash shield and turn on the extraction fan before adding this to water, then you should take that as a hint. They are scared of it, so should you be.

2nd EDIT - then there is this from 2012 Post Oh to search on the search function...

'Cleaning with Caustic soda', who would have thought such search words would have provided age old wisdom.....


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