# RecipeDB - Rothenburg Altbier



## petesbrew (8/4/10)

Rothenburg Altbier  Ale - Düsseldorf Altbier  All Grain               1 Votes        Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      3.2 kg JWM Export Pilsner    2 kg JWM Light Munich    0.5 kg Weyermann Carahell    0.15 kg Weyermann Caramunich I    0.1 kg Weyermann Carafa Special I       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      45 g Spalter (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 60mins)    15 g Northern Brewer (Pellet, 8.5AA%, 90mins)       Yeast     20 g DCL Yeast K-97 - SafAle German Ale         23L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.06 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.016 (calc)   Bitterness 35.2 IBU   Efficiency 75%   Alcohol 5.72%   Colour 32 EBC   Batch Size 23L     Fermentation   Primary 7 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 4 days


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## petesbrew (8/4/10)

Recipe in progress, so feel free to comment & criticise.


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## manticle (8/4/10)

Not the world's biggest altbier expert but the recipe looks nice to me. I'll hold judgement till I've brewed it. I'm playing with an alt recipe at the moment - meaning to knock one out this weekend with a few tweaks from last time so I might do yours, Yardy's and Batz's for comparisons.

There is a Wyeast equivalent of that yeast isn't there?


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## petesbrew (8/4/10)

manticle said:


> Not the world's biggest altbier expert but the recipe looks nice to me. I'll hold judgement till I've brewed it. I'm playing with an alt recipe at the moment - meaning to knock one out this weekend with a few tweaks from last time so I might do yours, Yardy's and Batz's for comparisons.
> 
> There is a Wyeast equivalent of that yeast isn't there?


Dunno, Manticle. I actually meant to get the dusseldorf one for a previous beer, but this is all they had. It was a good yeast previously, apart from the sulphur smell while fermenting.


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## neonmeate (8/4/10)

i dunno bout the caraaroma - that will give you an intense prune/raisin sort of flavour that will get in the way of the drinkability. think i did use it in an alt once and it was too heavy for the beer. i would just sub that for caramunich personally (or ditch caramalts entirely). amber malt could give a nice toastiness. perhaps a pinch of black malt to make up for the colour you're currently getting from the caraaroma. .... and switch to all german malts....


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## petesbrew (9/4/10)

neonmeate said:


> i dunno bout the caraaroma - that will give you an intense prune/raisin sort of flavour that will get in the way of the drinkability. think i did use it in an alt once and it was too heavy for the beer. i would just sub that for caramunich personally (or ditch caramalts entirely). amber malt could give a nice toastiness. perhaps a pinch of black malt to make up for the colour you're currently getting from the caraaroma. .... and switch to all german malts....


Thanks Neon. Just checked my inventory, and I'd forgot I have some Caramunich.
Well, I've got some german malts... that'll do for this time round.... Not sure, would a pinch of roast barley do?


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## jbirbeck (9/4/10)

drop the specialities that many of them may stop it getting as low as you'll want it to, reduce the Pils and increase the munich so you have maltiness in there while mashing low... use the roast barley to adjust the colour. Perhaps add some melanoidin if you want for depth of flavour if you're not decocting.

use a third of the spalt as a FWH addition for some hop refinement...

But you know, I reckon I'd drink that as it is and enjoy the bugger, esp with that Kolsch yeast. It won't a great _Alt_ just a nice beer. :lol:


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## drsmurto (9/4/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> drop the specialities that many of them may stop it getting as low as you'll want it to, reduce the Pils and increase the munich so you have maltiness in there while mashing low... use the roast barley to adjust the colour. Perhaps add some melanoidin if you want for depth of flavour if you're not decocting.
> 
> use a third of the spalt as a FWH addition for some hop refinement...
> 
> But you know, I reckon I'd drink that as it is and enjoy the bugger, esp with that Kolsch yeast. It won't a great _Alt_ just a nice beer. :lol:



Same comments from me. I posted about this on manticles Alt recipe.

You seem stuck halfway between a northern german and a dusseldorf altbier. 

For a dusseldorf Alt increase munich to at least 50%, some melanodinin if yu arent decocting, a dash of carafa for colour and the rest pils. 

Spalt and only spalt but then i love this hop in this style! The more munich the more IBU. 50 IBU sounds like a lot but will be balanced by all the munich.

Mash low and long (64-65 for 90mins).

I've used both the german ale and kolsch yeast in this style (wyeast) and whilst i prefer the german ale (WY1007) the kolsch yeast still made a nice Alt.

Just my 2 c.

I love this style. Malty, dry and bitter. I kegged one on the weekend and have another lagering.

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. I'll put up my base recipe after this weekend when a bunch of the AMB guys get together for the judging of the Alt challenge.


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## petesbrew (9/4/10)

Cheers guys,
Halfway between North German & dusseldorf still sounds like I'm in the ballpark.
Screw it. Dropping the Nth Brewer and going Alt all the way.


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## beerbrewer76543 (9/4/10)

Has anyone played around with ferment temps to change the yeast ester profile?

Mine started at 16 degrees C and I ramped it up to 18 degrees after 3 days (using 2565 Kolsch yeast)

Here's my partial recipe using bits and pieces I had lying around:
25L
600g LDME
1.25kg Ale malt
500g Caramunich III
250g Caramalt
150g Carafoam
50g Carafa III
90g Chinese Cascade h34r: @ 60 
50g Spalt @ 60
2565 Kolsch yeast

Aimed for 50IBU 30EBC OG1.047 FG1.011

I know the grain bill is a bit bizzare but I wasn't sure hot to make one as a partial (must finish AG setup!)

Next one will hopefully be an AG using 70% Munich, 27% Pilsner, 2% Melanoidin, 1% Carafa III and enough Spalt & Chinese Cascade h34r: to 50IBU :icon_drool2:

*edit to make sense


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## jbirbeck (9/4/10)

I've used the Kolsch at the higher temps (18), I love the falvour it can impart, that wineyness is great.


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## petesbrew (15/4/10)

Cracking this one tonight so if anyone has any last minute thoughts on my grain bill, I'd love to hear them.


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## drsmurto (15/4/10)

petesbrew said:


> Cracking this one tonight so if anyone has any last minute thoughts on my grain bill, I'd love to hear them.



Are you brewing what is still listed in the DB or do you have an updated grist and hop schedule?


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## petesbrew (15/4/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Are you brewing what is still listed in the DB or do you have an updated grist and hop schedule?


Haha, sorry, yeah I've been updating it.
Since I've started, I've upped the Munich & Carahell, bought some carafa, and dropped the special b and chocolate.
Still up in arms over the hop schedule... either NBr & Spalt (save's 1/2 my spalt for a future altbier), or Spalt all the way.... will decide on the day.


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## drsmurto (15/4/10)

A dusseldorf alt (as decreed by the BJCP) is "A well balanced, bitter yet malty, clean, smooth, well-attenuated amber-coloured German ale".

I'm not sure you will get high attenuation with that much crystal. i guess you could mash at 62-3C for 90+ mins. 

Another quote from the BJCP - "small amounts of crystal, chocolate, and/or black malts used to adjust colour." Not sure 10% is small. 

Just my 2 c Pete - its your beer so brew it how you want and report back. :icon_cheers:


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## petesbrew (15/4/10)

DrSmurto said:


> A dusseldorf alt (as decreed by the BJCP) is "A well balanced, bitter yet malty, clean, smooth, well-attenuated amber-coloured German ale".
> 
> I'm not sure you will get high attenuation with that much crystal. i guess you could mash at 62-3C for 90+ mins.
> 
> ...


Cheers Smurto.


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## petesbrew (18/4/10)

Nearing the end of the boil ATM.
All's gone well.


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## petesbrew (10/5/10)

Made the WLP029 yeast starter this morning, but it'll need stepping up.
It's a few years old, so as a backup I've got K-97 or US-05.


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## petesbrew (14/5/10)

petesbrew said:


> Made the WLP029 yeast starter this morning, but it'll need stepping up.
> It's a few years old, so as a backup I've got K-97 or US-05.


My starterfailed to launch. I must review my yeast handling techniques.
Pitched the K-97 just then. Filled to 22L, OG=1060. Yum.


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## petesbrew (24/5/10)

petesbrew said:


> My starterfailed to launch. I must review my yeast handling techniques.
> Pitched the K-97 just then. Filled to 22L, OG=1060. Yum.


Tested last night SG=1010. Tastes good. Will leave it for another week then bottle.
edit: left my starter sitting on the side, and it seemed to have finally woken up.
Dropping it out in the fridge now to rebottle and try again at a later date.


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## petesbrew (1/6/10)

Bottled last night.
Took the easy way out and used carb drops, (1/2 carbing 12 bottles)
FG=1008. Why the hell are my beers always so strong?


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## eamonnfoley (1/6/10)

low FG is ok for this style, its supposed to be well attenuated. Might want to lower OG next time if ABV is too high.


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## petesbrew (1/6/10)

foles said:


> low FG is ok for this style, its supposed to be well attenuated. Might want to lower OG next time if ABV is too high.


Cheers Foles.


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## petesbrew (11/6/10)

Had one of the half carbed bottles last night, it was pretty flat, so I'll leave those ones go for a couple of months to properly carb.
It was bloody awesome though, a touch roasty, and very easy to drink. I'll grab a photo of the next one.
Thanks for the tips & comments, lads. It's always worth bouncing ideas off everyone.


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## petesbrew (10/5/12)

My latest altbier.
Yeast pitched this morning. Sitting on garage floor at 18c with a few freezer bricks for company over the next couple of warm days.
OG=1055, so pretty much smack on target.

Meistertrunk Altbier

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.55
Anticipated OG: 1.052 Plato: 12.873
Anticipated EBC: 27.0
Anticipated IBU: 48.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9.0 0.50 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.039 13
81.1 4.50 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.039 3
3.6 0.20 kg. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 69
1.8 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special I Germany 1.036 950
4.5 0.25 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 34

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
16.00 g. Northern Brewer Pellet 9.80 25.5 90 min.
36.00 g. Spalt Pellet 4.00 21.3 60 min.
10.00 g. Spalt Pellet 4.00 1.2 10 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt


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## petesbrew (31/5/12)

Finally bottled it last night. It was sitting in the garage around the 16c mark, and finally dropped to 1010.
The dregs of the priming bucket (and the last stubby that didn't quite fill up) tasted fantastic.


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## petesbrew (15/6/12)

I tried the first stubbie of this last night.
While it's carbed up nicely, is clear and a good deep amber colour it's quite sweet.
Almost like someone stirred in a Nutrasweet while I wasn't looking.

Going off the Whitelabs site, this is what they wrote about the yeast:
WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt Yeast
Traditional Alt yeast from Dusseldorf, Germany. Produces clean, slightly sweet alt beers. Does not accentuate hop flavor as WLP029 does. 
Attenuation: 65-72%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-69F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium

In the past I've used WLP029 as 036 was never available. Early days, but I think I prefer the kolsch yeast.


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## petesbrew (16/6/12)

petesbrew said:


> I tried the first stubbie of this last night.
> While it's carbed up nicely, is clear and a good deep amber colour it's quite sweet.
> Almost like someone stirred in a Nutrasweet while I wasn't looking.


Had another last night. While this one was undercarbed, it was only slightly malty sweet.
I bulk prime, so maybe the dissolved dextrose isn't mixing properly... honeslty it just doesn't make sense.

Still it was lovely. Will try and post a pic of it sometime.


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