# Belgian Tripel Final Gravity



## Thefatdoghead (30/7/12)

I have had a Belgian tripel (westmalle clone) fermenting for over 3.5 weeks now and been checking the gravity every couple of days. It has gone from 1.084 to 1.020 and has sat on 1.020 for 4 or more days. Would I be right in saying 1.020 will be to sweet for a belgian? The original recipe has it starting @ 1.080 and finishing at 1.013. 
It smells fantastic but im just concerned if I keg it now it will be to sweet and not have that dry finish you need for these beers? 

Cheers

Gav


----------



## NickB (30/7/12)

What is the attenuation specs on your yeast (in fact, what yeast did you use)? Also, what mash temp and schedule? Have you bumped the fridge temp up into the 20's to see if it will drop another point or two? You could also try a secondary to see if you get it to drop a few points. But more importantly, does it taste too sweet? If not, I wouldn't worry too much.

Cheers


----------



## Thefatdoghead (30/7/12)

NickB said:


> What is the attenuation specs on your yeast (in fact, what yeast did you use)? Also, what mash temp and schedule? Have you bumped the fridge temp up into the 20's to see if it will drop another point or two? You could also try a secondary to see if you get it to drop a few points. But more importantly, does it taste too sweet? If not, I wouldn't worry too much.
> 
> Cheers



Hi Nick

I used Trappist high gravity I think it attenuates to 83% my schedule was 53/10min 62/30min 65/90min then mahout. I fermented @16 deg then rose to 22 slowly over a week. Still sitting on 1.020 and it does taste good but I can't tell if it's to sweet being at 22 degrees? 
Maybe try cool a glass down and drink it?
Cheers


----------



## black_labb (30/7/12)

I'd expect the gravity to fall further with that mash schedule. Maybe gently rouse the yeast and make sure it stays at 22. I've heard that 3787 is fairly flocculant for a belgian so maybe the active yeast flocced out before finishing (maybe for a bit of time with a low temp overnight or similar?).


----------



## Thefatdoghead (30/7/12)

black_labb said:


> I'd expect the gravity to fall further with that mash schedule. Maybe gently rouse the yeast and make sure it stays at 22. I've heard that 3787 is fairly flocculant for a belgian so maybe the active yeast flocced out before finishing (maybe for a bit of time with a low temp overnight or similar?).


You could be right there BL I have tried rousing it 2 days ago but still no luck so Ill get the heater in there and rouse it again see what happens
Cheers


----------



## Barry (30/7/12)

I have found my tripels to be too sweet if over 1.012 IMHO. Given the yeast and your mash schedule you should be in the low teens for FG at least. You could make a yeast starter of something neutral like US05 (save some money), or a liquid Belgian or other attentuative yeast (expensive) or make a yeast starter from something else you have fermenting. The main thing is that if you add more yeast it needs to actively fermenting to have a fair chance of success.
You could firstly stir the beer gently with a sanitised spoon and let it warm to 25oC and see if this gets FG down.
Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## Thefatdoghead (30/7/12)

Barry said:


> I have found my tripels to be too sweet if over 1.012 IMHO. Given the yeast and your mash schedule you should be in the low teens for FG at least. You could make a yeast starter of something neutral like US05 (save some money), or a liquid Belgian or other attentuative yeast (expensive) or make a yeast starter from something else you have fermenting. The main thing is that if you add more yeast it needs to actively fermenting to have a fair chance of success.
> You could firstly stir the beer gently with a sanitised spoon and let it warm to 25oC and see if this gets FG down.
> Hope this helps a bit.


I might try that but I'm running out of time because I'm due back to do another 5 weeks at sea. Maybe dry us05 and heat away but that would be my very last choice might try rack to secondary and heat to 22 and leave it for 5 weeks


----------



## jimmy01 (30/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> I might try that but I'm running out of time because I'm due back to do another 5 weeks at sea. Maybe dry us05 and heat away but that would be my very last choice might try rack to secondary and heat to 22 and leave it for 5 weeks




Hi Gav

I find that this yeast likes it hot. In fact the best results I have ever had is when I let it run to 30C (with open ferment). I usually get 80% apparent attentuation and finish around 1014 though I mash a little higher than you do 67C.

Good luck


----------



## [email protected] (30/7/12)

I agree with everyone else. With that mash schedule and assuming you grain bill was relatively simple? you should be finishing 1010 - 1014 with 3787.

How big was you starter??

If you can rack it and add a fresh smack pack before you go away that would be ideal.


----------



## Thefatdoghead (30/7/12)

Beer4U said:


> I agree with everyone else. With that mash schedule and assuming you grain bill was relatively simple? you should be finishing 1010 - 1014 with 3787.
> 
> How big was you starter??
> 
> If you can rack it and add a fresh smack pack before you go away that would be ideal.


I built up a 30ml vial to a 5L yeast starter and ended up with about 200ml of slurry in a 38 L batch. Grain bill was 88% pils and 12% clear candy sugar. 
I had a massive crousen that went almost a week blowing out the glad wrap and I just kept stiring the yeast back in. 
Would it be possible to get some yeast off the bottom of the fermentor and make a 5 L starter then add the slurry from that starter? Or would I just be breeding more stressed yeast? I don't have more 3787 and I don't have time to order any and then make a starter as I'm away in less then a week.
Cheers


----------



## Thefatdoghead (30/7/12)

Got a heat pad on it now and ill stir it in the morning. I just cant seem to detect sweetness but its hard to tell for me when im drinking 9% ale at 20 degrees.


----------



## joshuahardie (31/7/12)

I am in a similar boat
OG 1095 and stalled at 1028
I added a dry beer enzyme that got the beer down to 1018.

It is still very sweet, but passable.
What I did was bottle with champaigne yeast in the hope that it can take a few more points off.
To early to tell at this stage.


----------



## Dazza88 (31/7/12)

i believe 3787 doesnt mind extra time with brew on the yeast cake. dont know about five weeks with a heat pad however.

got any saison yeast gav?


----------



## Thefatdoghead (31/7/12)

Just found another 30ml vial of 3787 o im making a starter now and ill rack to secondary later. Cheers guys


----------



## warra48 (31/7/12)

I used this yeast in a Belgian, and got it from 1.078 to1.010.

I started it at 18C, upped it to 20C with the first candi sugar addition 4 days in.
It was upped to 21C with the second candi sugar addition another 3 days later.

All up I had it in primary for 4 weeks.

If you haven't added sugar into your recipe, then you may be close to where it might finish with your OG of 1.080, but it won't hurt to up the temperature and to exercise some patience, hard as that may be!


----------



## Nick JD (31/7/12)

3787's big issue with attenuation is that a vast amount of the most active and healthy yeast ends up in the huge krausen.

Stir the bugger back in with a sanitised spoon - BOOM, it'll finish.


----------



## Thefatdoghead (31/7/12)

Nick JD said:


> 3787's big issue with attenuation is that a vast amount of the most active and healthy yeast ends up in the huge krausen.
> 
> Stir the bugger back in with a sanitised spoon - BOOM, it'll finish.


I did stir it in, stirred it in 4 times. I got it on the heat and it seems to have dropped to 1.018 so im hopeful. I actually had the same problem with farmhouse so i just left it on the heater for 5 weeks. when i bottled it I was amazed at how nice it was, one of my best! It's the saison i put on the recipe data base. BOOM.

Hey Warra,

I added all the candy sugar in the boil as per the homebrew chef's recipe.


----------



## warra48 (31/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> Hey Warra, I added all the candy sugar in the boil as per the homebrew chef's recipe.



I know lots of recipes will tell you to do this.
It's not my preferred method. I feel it's better to let the yeast take off with a somewhat lower gravity wort, and then to gradually feed it the sugars as the fermentation is underway. I feel the yeast has a better chance of growing in a lower gravity wort than one loaded with simple sugars. It also stops it being lazy and consuming all the simple easy stuff first, only for it to then lie down on the job it's really meant to do. Why feed it dessert before it's done the job on the main course?


----------



## Thefatdoghead (31/7/12)

warra48 said:


> I know lots of recipes will tell you to do this.
> It's not my preferred method. I feel it's better to let the yeast take off with a somewhat lower gravity wort, and then to gradually feed it the sugars as the fermentation is underway. I feel the yeast has a better chance of growing in a lower gravity wort than one loaded with simple sugars. It also stops it being lazy and consuming all the simple easy stuff first, only for it to then lie down on the job it's really meant to do. Why feed it dessert before it's done the job on the main course?


Ahh good idea! how do you add the beat sugar? im sure i have a book on adding adjuncts somewhere but ill ask anyway.
cheers


----------



## felten (31/7/12)

This email from wyeast in regards to 3787 might shed some light on why. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/e-mail-wye...t-3787-a-53838/


----------



## Thefatdoghead (31/7/12)

Nice one Felten I reckon that is my problem right there. I'll try warras trick next time.

Cheers


----------



## warra48 (31/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> Ahh good idea! how do you add the beat sugar? im sure i have a book on adding adjuncts somewhere but ill ask anyway.
> cheers



I bought mine from MHB, it was his dark candi sugar syrup.
I simply added it straight from the container. No boiling, nothing else.




Edit: fumble fingers spelling problem


----------



## Thefatdoghead (31/7/12)

warra48 said:


> I bought mine from MHB, it was his dark candi sugar syrup.
> I simply added it straight from the container. No boiling, nothing else.
> 
> 
> ...


I got the clear candi syrup from Ross, it's beat sugar so ill try add it to the ferment next time. 
Cheers


----------



## Nick JD (31/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> I got the clear candi syrup from Ross, it's beat sugar so ill try add it to the ferment next time.
> Cheers



Beat sugar? Sounds like it would "retain head". :lol:


----------



## WitWonder (1/8/12)

warra48 said:


> I bought mine from MHB, it was his dark candi sugar syrup.
> I simply added it straight from the container. No boiling, nothing else.


Really? The one and only time I did this was with a Belgian DSA after forgetting to add it to the boil. I thought "what the hell" and added it to the fermenter directly instead. The result was a beer which had a residual artificial type of sweetness to it which resulted in a pretty average beer. In fact, I still have numerous bottles on the floor in the garage some two years later...


----------



## joshuahardie (1/8/12)

I am reluctant to add a thick syrup to a fermentation (such as candi sugar) I feel the thick syrup, just falls to the bottom of the fermenter and does not get consumed by the yeast. 

This is just an opinion based on a few attempts and I don't have scientific fact to back it up, but if I knew in advance that I was going to add candi sugar to the fermenter, I would make sure that my fermenter was a few litres short, and I would add the candi to some water, dissolve totally, and boil for a short period and then add the diluted solution to the fermenter.


----------

