# Grain press for BIAB for easy wort extraction?



## hwall95 (27/10/14)

So I did my first all grain biab on Saturday which went pretty well besides slow boil and stuck ball valve. I've been thinking about all the processes to avoid running into same problems and how to make it easier etc. and I realised the instead of squeezing the grain bag which fermentor lids (only thing I had on hand) I could make a sort of grain press to increase amount of extraction as well as making the squeeze process easier as well. 

The main idea isn't really to increase efficiency as I got around 80% which I was pretty happy with, but mainly to make it easier to squeeze without spilling it on the ground which was a pain to clean...

So this is my rough idea:





So the basic idea is based on a similar process of solid consultation and bit of fluid properties. So basically I'm assuming that the the crushed grain will act similar to a fine soil like clay or silt in terms of it's compressibility and water absorption.

The basic idea is to compress the grain bag in a plastic bucket (with holes in the bottom and another bucket below to collect wort) with a circular plate that creates a sealed environment with the bucket. So you press it down until you reach the limit where you can no longer compress due to water in the voids. Then you decompress it (pull up the sealed plate) withdrawing in air into the bucket, therefore increasing the air content of pore voids, and pushing out some water and then compress it again and then continue the process until you reach the point you can no longer extract any more wort

Then sparge the grains and repeat the process. Although I was thinking I may need to adjust the pH of the sparge water as the grains may not decrease the pH of the water as much and could leas to tannin extraction. 

So that's the basic idea. Although I do have a few concerns:

-It may throw off my volume calculations
- May push more fine flour particles into beer but that sure settle during whirlpool anyways
- myth about tannin extraction, but based on everything I've read it's been proven to be bullshit
- force required to compress it properly may be quite large. When I get home I'll try to estimate it based on the soil parameters of clay or something.
- bottom may be blocked with fine flour which could lower hydraulic conductivity to a point where it could become somewhat of a stuck sparge
- probably think of some more concerns if I think about it longer 

So if anyone has tried anything similar or read about anything similar I would to love to hear about it. I've done a bit if researching but closest thing I found was a guy using a suction device to suck out all the wort out of the grains. Just an idea though, purely theoretical at this point. If I have my theory wrong please let me know, as it would probably help my in my exam anyways. 

Cheers


----------



## Forever Wort (27/10/14)

Sounds good but the question is ... is it worth it?


----------



## hwall95 (27/10/14)

Good question, I guess it should save me time and allow me to brew on my own without buying a pulley system. 

Cost wise ill need to buy two buckets and something to make a seal around edge of a bucket lid which will probably be a similar cost to a rope and pulley so maybe. 

So for me the time and being able to brew easily on my own governs over small cost of the buckets


----------



## TimT (27/10/14)

I'm with Forever Wort. I do squeeze my bag but after a certain point I don't think it matters.

A good mashing and sparging regime should be enough to wash out the vast majority of the available sugars; after that the moisture that gets stuck in the grain is probably not worth saving anyway.


----------



## TimT (27/10/14)

We have a press that we've used for both pressing honey out of wax and juice out of fruit that could definitely be turned to this purpose. (I've even used my cheese press in brewing - had to boil some raisins and press the juice out of them for my first mead. I ended up with a small compact raisin cake!)


----------



## davedoran (27/10/14)

I go with the pulley system. If you have something to hold a pulley wheel its really simple. Cheap set at Bunnings
Seems like a lot of effort for maybe not a whole lot of extra wort. Happy to be proven wrong but the extra compression is probably yielding returns in cup fulls not liters.


----------



## sp0rk (27/10/14)

I don't even bother with a pulley
I lift the grain bag out of the keggle and plop it into a bucket with a minimum of splashing
then take it over to a rope that's tied to a cross beam on the veranda and tie the bag up so it's hanging a couple of inches above the top of the bucket
It sits there for 20 minutes to cool down and drain, then I chuck on some thick rubber gloves and squeeze the bag to buggery
All of this then goes in the boil and I put the bucket back under the bag to catch any further drips
9 times out of 10 there are no more drips and by the time I'm all done cubing up my wort, cleaning and finally get to dumping the spent grain in the green waste bin, it's dry as anyway
I really think this is over engineering something that's fairly simple in the first place


----------



## TimT (27/10/14)

True.

That's a particular attraction of BIAB for me - using an extremely simple (and ingenious) method to yield good, great, excellent results.

Every complication added to the initial process is an extra thing that could **** up at exactly the wrong time.


----------



## philmud (27/10/14)

TimT said:


> I'm with Forever Wort. I do squeeze my bag but after a certain point I don't think it matters.


We all do, Tim*


* Sorry, AHB rule #1168 states quite clearly that no squeeze/don't squeeze thread may go by without a bag squeezing gag.


----------



## Maheel (27/10/14)

i would use 3 buckets

outside larger to collect juice
inside 1st holes in bottom side and holes in plunger "lid"
3rd inner bucket as piston to push with (could use something other than bucket.

i find if i throw biab in a bucket and push down a lot of juice comes out the top and then soaks back into the biab when i stop pushing

i throw a old ss colander in my bucket, throw in bag and then push down for 20 secs
i then pull the bag out and dump into the boil (that juice = 1->2l )
hence the idea of the fully perforated bucket


----------



## Aces High (27/10/14)

The funniest thing I saw was a guy that had 2 x tennis racquets tied together at the top end. He'd raise the bag and sqeeze the shit out of it with his tennis press.

Cant remember where is saw it, but it seem to do the job well if you're so inclined. Like others I just chuck it in a bucket and let it drain


----------



## hotmelt (27/10/14)

Maybe something like this would work


I would just do this and give it a squeeze now and then.


----------



## Bribie G (27/10/14)

Behold the mighty Bribie Pressinator. ®


----------



## hwall95 (27/10/14)

Thanks for responses guys, 

Although IMO I wouldn't say it would be overcomplicating as it would be as easy as just pushing a piston down a few times, sparge and then repeating. My description probably was the complicated but I was more just explaining how I thought of it to begin with it. 

Maheel excellent idea, can't believe I didn't think of it. 2 normal buckets and one with wholes in it would work perfectly. The mop bucket and the clamp seems like an interesting idea but probably cheaper just to grab three buckets since I don't own a good clamp. Haha love the Pressinator Bribie! 

Overall it's just an idea to make the hole process easier then holding it while squeezing as well as making it easier for my mates that I brew with that are a lot less experienced since I can give them straight forward method. Haha I was also curious to see what people do themselves since every homebrewer has their own unique method to do everything.


----------



## Spiesy (27/10/14)

I have a generic big white tub, Supercheap auto style. The metal shelf rack from a fridge sits on top, bag on top of that. Bag drains itself over the course of the ramp to boil, I can shift the grain around (using some heavy gloves) if need be. 

No potential for tannin extractions. Very little trapped wort. No worries. 

As long as your efficiency is reasonable 65%+, repeatability is far more important for recipe design and end product.


----------



## n87 (29/10/14)

i just have a ratcheting pulley.

pull it up... let it hang there with the wort is coming up to boil
twist it a few times, i find this less hurties than squeezing, and i get a hell of alot out.
when it has slowed to a slow drip... drop it into my esky (its the only thing i have on hand to hold it while it cools without getting sugar everywhere)

an hour or so later, there is only about a litre in the bottom of the esky.

i get 85% (+-2%) so im happy with that


----------



## bundy (3/11/14)

Aces High said:


> The funniest thing I saw was a guy that had 2 x tennis racquets tied together at the top end. He'd raise the bag and sqeeze the shit out of it with his tennis press.
> 
> Cant remember where is saw it, but it seem to do the job well if you're so inclined. Like others I just chuck it in a bucket and let it drain



Glad it made you Smile Aces 

they do work a treat though and nice and simple....





"Concept and Design Stage"






In Action. "Look Mum only one hand!" 

As an added bonus and at no extra cost it leaves your other hand Free to hold your Beer..... 

:chug:


----------



## Troy Scott (3/11/14)

It's the best I can do. Works a treat.


----------



## Joel Mcleod (4/11/14)

Bribie G said:


> Behold the mighty Bribie Pressinator. ®
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do the exact thing Bribie does. I've finally found a use for that kegerator shelf rack.


----------



## Bribie G (5/11/14)

Well spotted, I've got two kegerators ...


----------



## thylacine (5/11/14)

I 'full volume' BIAB. Thirty litre kettle, stove-top with an over-the-side element when required. 3.2 to 3.6kg grain bill. No sparge, rubber gloved hand squeeze.

Prior to full volume I always batch sparged in a second kettle. Squeezed with great effort. They made a good difference to my OG and FG readings. But bugger all once I went full volume, so no more sparging and now only brief simple squeezing.

But was I 'missing' a lot of sugars? I tested:

1) brewed twice on the same day 2) pulled bag from batch #1, fitted bag into 2nd kettle & stirred into 10L @ 78C, OG 1010, dumped grain 
3) pulled bag from batch #2, reheated the 10L to 78, fitted bag & stirred, OG 1018 * combination became the third batch for the day 

Tastes like beer, low alcohol, neighbour that drinks Carlton light likes it, but I don't. I won't be doing again. 

Result: With full volume BIAB I no longer sparge nor 'heavy' squeeze (4.8 to 5.4% is enough for me)

Cheers


----------



## yankinoz (5/11/14)

Think of the benefits of squeezing the bag. Here I am, before and after switching to BIAB.


Before






After:


----------

