# Saison Yeast in Cider?



## Yob (29/1/17)

Doing an Imperial Cider, wondering if anyone has used a Saison yeast in a cider?
Ive got a packet off the MJ M29 in the fridge I could throw at it, will have mango juice in it and back sweetened with pear huice so a fruity character isnt unwelcome..

thoughts?


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## Dan Pratt (29/1/17)

Haven't done it. Thinking that lower temps to reduce the phenol and ester production.


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## Yob (29/1/17)

French saison cider seems to be a thing after a little research.. 

It's going to be an interesting experiment, will report back on how it turns out.


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## mxd (29/1/17)

I did it and it was really bad. It was a full pack in 9 ltrs of juice. The guy who did a cider talk at club meet said in cider you half pitch
I.e 1 pack 40 ltrs.of juice
I was going to they again and use half a pack in 20/ltrs.


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## Tex083 (29/1/17)

It's the wrong type of yeast. Beer yeasts have been used for a long time and have been genetically selected to ferment maltose in preference to simple sugars. Cider and wine yeasts have been selected as they deal with simple fruit sugars better.
I tried a champagne yeast in a double IPA as it's more alcohol tolerant. Didn't work, tasted bad. I recently made a cider using Safcider and it turned out good.

If you want a funky cider add Brett


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## Ferg (29/1/17)

There's a good topic on homebrewtalk where someone has used every yeast known to man to ferment his ciders. I'm sure you could find some info in there. You could also go wild, I do that exclusively with my ciders now using freshly pressed juice.


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## Yob (29/1/17)

Tex083 said:


> It's the wrong type of yeast. Beer yeasts have been used for a long time and have been genetically selected to ferment maltose in preference to simple sugars. Cider and wine yeasts have been selected as they deal with simple fruit sugars better.
> I tried a champagne yeast in a double IPA as it's more alcohol tolerant. Didn't work, tasted bad. I recently made a cider using Safcider and it turned out good.
> If you want a funky cider add Brett


I've used notto, greenbelt and a number of others with good results..


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## Tex083 (29/1/17)

I'm not saying beer yeast won't consume simple sugars. Look an almost any belgian beer they have a large amount of simple sugars. Bottle conditioning also introduces simple sugars.
I like the idea of a saison flavour in a cider. It would be very interesting.


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## Danscraftbeer (29/1/17)

I used M27 for the last Cider. It does have a dryishness as expected but I like it dry, but it was especially nice after 3 weeks in the keg. I transferred into PET bottles from the keg and kept refrigerated. 6 months on and very nice. Its just another blend that may be favourable or not. 7 people tried it. 3 didn't like it but their not cider fans anyway.

I have to admit though It put off this strange smell early on. (Oxygenated,pressure fermented in a 23lt keg, at room temps ~19-23c) It was as fast as any Ale ferment. I don't know which name this smell has it was like paint thinners, acetone, fibreglass resin? I thought it was a gonnas for sure but I left it brew out and that smell disappeared. Phenols? Fusils? Anyway it completely disappeared by the time it got chilled then transferred to serving keg 14days from pitching.

Edit: I should add this is the first time I Oxygenated the juice just like any beer I make. Should you do this?, not do this? dunno. I wondered if the smell was the o2 maybe that eventually ran out? Or it was just what may happen if you use Saison yeast in cider.


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## manticle (29/1/17)

Tex083 said:


> It's the wrong type of yeast. Beer yeasts have been used for a long time and have been genetically selected to ferment maltose in preference to simple sugars. Cider and wine yeasts have been selected as they deal with simple fruit sugars better.
> I tried a champagne yeast in a double IPA as it's more alcohol tolerant. Didn't work, tasted bad. I recently made a cider using Safcider and it turned out good.
> If you want a funky cider add Brett


 Maltose is a simple sugar - at least disaccharide, same as sucrose.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that saison strains are related to wine yeasts too. Both S. cerevisae anywyay.


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## technobabble66 (29/1/17)

Yob said:


> I've used notto, greenbelt and a number of others with good results..


Yeah, but you're still wrong.
h34r: :lol:

In all seriousness, keen to hear how the saison yeast works out in your cider, J-dawg.


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## Yob (30/1/17)

I've parked it on this run.. I'm too invested in the brew to experiment on it..

8Lt @ 1.097..

Will do another, less complex one, will Defo come back to this though. 

Pitched some EC1118


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## Newy (30/1/17)

I did an apple cider with Wyeast French Saison, from memory went from 1.050 to 1.002, dry hopped with EKG and back-sweetened slightly with some fresh juice when I kegged it. It was superb, nice and dry, just a hint of sweetness. Well worth a go.


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## mxd (30/1/17)

Yob said:


> 8Lt @ 1.097..


what roids did you put those apples on to get that SG ?

That will go to a nice dry 1.000 and will be 12.5ish %


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## Yob (30/1/17)

mxd said:


> what roids did you put those apples on to get that SG ?
> 
> That will go to a nice dry 1.000 and will be 12.5ish %


Boiled it off matt, and added 500g honey... Nothing else


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## MartinOC (30/1/17)

Soo.....a Bochet'd saisonny cyser?

Juice-junky!


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## Yob (30/1/17)

Cutting edge shit here man...


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## MartinOC (30/1/17)

Careful where you enter that in Vicbrew (if you do this year)- wouldn't want to get on the bad side of Cerberus....


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## Yob (30/1/17)

Merri mashers might get first taste..

as long as I can enter it in the right category...


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## Midnight Brew (30/1/17)

I think I found that swear jar we were talking about.


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## MartinOC (30/1/17)

:icon_offtopic:


Midnight Brew said:


> I think I found that swear jar we were talking about.


We were all pretty pissed at the time, but yeah, you got it...


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## Midnight Brew (30/1/17)

Back on topic I've got a few vials of WLP775 English cider that goes to 12%. She's pretty dry but still leaves a fair whack of flavour.


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## Mardoo (30/1/17)

MartinOC said:


> Careful where you enter that in Vicbrew (if you do this year)- wouldn't want to get on the bad side of Cerberus....


One head bites your head off, the second tears your arms off, and the third tells the executioner to chop off your willy.

And just to wave my hand in the direction of the topic, I reckon the Wyeast French Saison yeast is a cracking one ripe for experimentation. Like on cider. Or paint.


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