# Crown Urn



## cozmocracker (5/5/09)

Hello fellow Biab'ers,

today i received my shiny new 40 litre urn, Woo Hoo!

Now, i have done a couple of brews in a 20 litre urn and have a couple of questions before i move on to the new one.

Firstly, i noticed during the boil, the liquid in the sight tube doesnt get boiled, is this an issue? do people remove or block there sight tubes?

Secondly, the tap. i used some silicon tubing for draining the urn, i managed to slip it on the tap but held it in place by hand while draining the urn for fear of it slipping off. Do people replace the tap or have a better method for hold the tubing on there while it is draining?

Thirdly, the mash. Normally for Biab method you add all your water at the start, why? wouldnt it be better to mash with the ratio of water 3 to 1 (or there abouts) as per normal mashing technique (i did read somewhere in Palmers bible about the effect of ratio on the mash, for whatever reason it was) and then add sparge water to get to starting boil volume? i know its a one vessel system so simplicity is the key but i have an extra urn now which can be used for the sparge water.

Lastly, at least for now, what product is best used for cleaning the urn? to remove the stubborn scum in the cracks.

Thanks to all who can help me with my little dilemmas 

Cozmo


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## cliffo (5/5/09)

1. I kept the sight tube on mine, don't think it matter
2. I replaced the standard tap on mine with a 1/2 inch ball valve setup, silicon tube gets clamped on with butterfly clamps from Bunnings
3. Can't help you with this one
4. I'm a big fan of PBW for cleaning my urn & plate chiller


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## chappo1970 (5/5/09)

Cozmo,
Well done on the 40lt Crown Urn. You won't be disappointed.

I don't BIAB so I will leave those answers to those more qualified, BribieG? Katie? Pollux? TB?

As for the tap I replaced it with a ball valve and barbed spigot. IMO Burns last for my forever so I won't risk it. I often strike or sparge with 25lts or so and I have a hard enough time holding onto the hose changing hands let alone trying to keep it attached to that urn tap that comes standard with the urn. For safety sakes I would change it to suit the application. See below for how I modified my Urn tap and used Silicon hoses. 





I clean with PBW. Does a brilliant job on the boiler and HLT.

Cheers

Chappo


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## flattop (5/5/09)

1) don't think it's a problem as all the water in the urn is around 100*c sight glass is great for marking initial volume so you don't need to measure each brew
2) Would like a 1/2 inch ball valve but for now i put my cube on a stable wooden block directly under the tap and open the tap in the locking position and back off... no drama's
3) From what i understand a Sparge is technically not needed for a BIAB as it's one big sparge but i have sparged with limited success probably TB can give us the in's and out's.
4) I clean the urn with a soft scourer but i will be ordering PBW from Ross when i place my next order i think... then again you boil the urn every brew so i doubt there is much issue with any build up...

Note's for the crown, it's slower to warm up than the birko apparently, i use a timer to start it off (thanks TB for that tip) and it is a bit hard to get it to a rolling boil if the ambient air temp is low, some use insulation, i have taken my brewing into the kitchen from the balcony (much better)


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## cozmocracker (5/5/09)

mmmm, ball value looks the go, your right i wouldnt want to burn myself or even worse spill hot wort on the floor!

PBW here i come, im guessing i can get that through Ross?


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## Goofinder (5/5/09)

(Note, I don't have a Crown urn, I have a Roband, but I assume urns are reasonably standard).

1. Anything in the sight glass is going to get pretty damn hot anyway during the boil so I don't think there's a problem there. Can be a bit tricky to clean though.

2. I just use 19mm hose that fits tightly over my urn tap and haven't had any problems with it. I only ever drain straight down into the mash tun for strike/sparge water or straight down into a cube for no-chilling. I don't hold it on or anything as it is stretched enough that it doesn't come loose. The urn tap also comes apart easily for cleaning as well.

3. Get yourself a mash tun!


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## Pollux (5/5/09)

Okay, I BIAB in a Crown urn so I suppose I should give my opinions...

1. The sight tube I consider a non-issue, in terms of cleaning I fire hot water down it with a syringe tends to do the job.

2. I use a re-enforced nylon tube with an ID of 19mm, add a clamp and it stays on fine.

3. I start with all my water, but I am starting to think my scales are off and as such I am not adding enough grain, so this may become an issue further on.

4. I used to just use a soft scourer and elbow grease, always rinsing with a jug of boiling water.....The last few times though I have given it a shot of dishwashing liquid, then rinsed multiple times, then done the boiling water...It makes a difference.


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## Sammus (5/5/09)

Instead of PBW you could get some sodium percarbonate. Costs all of about $65-70 for a 25kg bag (as opposed to $50 for a 1.8kg tub) if you look at some cleaning chemical suppliers in the yellow pages. Will last you a lifetime, and that's basically what PBW is anyway (arguabely, it's a patented mix and they only tell you the hazardous chemicals, of which sodium percarb is not, but speculation on many brewing forums suggests the main active component is sodium percarbonate, plus some surfectants to help wet surfaces, but it's easy enough to just soak it in the pure stuff).


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## cozmocracker (5/5/09)

thanks for the replies everyone, any more thoughts on the mash, i was thinking of using the 20 litre urn for dunk sparging in, bring water up to 78 degrees and dunk bag in there a few times or leave in there for 10 or 15 minutes then add extra water to main urn?? thoughts?


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## Bribie G (5/5/09)

I've got a Birko. I don't know about the Crown but the Birko tap can be screwed apart and cleaned, then put back together. What I do is, when heating the strike water, fill urn about a fifth full and bring the water to the boil, then run a litre through the tap to nuke it well. I am thinking of getting the sight tube inlet welded and remove the tube, don't need it.

Inside the urn I just use hot water, washing up detergent and a yellow/green scrubber, but every few brews I lightly scour the exposed element with a stainless wool pad to remove any calcium deposits.

After every brew I perfectly polish the urn outside using windex and soft cloths, thank it, kiss it and put it to bed. My urn is my life :icon_cheers:


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## flattop (5/5/09)

For my part i am starting to find sparging with BIAB is a hassle, i came close to hitting efficiency without sparging for my last brew (4th) target was 1047 i got 1043, not too bad


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## RobB (6/5/09)

cozmocracker said:


> Secondly, the tap. i used some silicon tubing for draining the urn, i managed to slip it on the tap but held it in place by hand while draining the urn for fear of it slipping off. Do people replace the tap or have a better method for hold the tubing on there while it is draining?
> 
> Thirdly, the mash. Normally for Biab method you add all your water at the start, why? wouldnt it be better to mash with the ratio of water 3 to 1 (or there abouts) as per normal mashing technique (i did read somewhere in Palmers bible about the effect of ratio on the mash, for whatever reason it was) and then add sparge water to get to starting boil volume? i know its a one vessel system so simplicity is the key but i have an extra urn now which can be used for the sparge water.



Different urns have different shaped taps, but if your tap tapers all the way down it will be hard to fit a hose on to it. Here's a photo of what I did to overcome this problem. I just drilled out the spout and inserted a 5cm length of copper pipe. Obviously, there will be a circular crack between the body of the tap and the pipe, and this will have to be filled with silver solder or brazing. An extra bead of solder around the protruding part of the pipe would give the hose more grip.





The taps are chrome plated brass, not stainless, so they're pretty easy to drill. Even so, I stepped up the hole size in 0.5mm increments.

On your third point, I have done this a few times but it made no difference to my efficiency nor the flavour of my beer so I just do straight BIABs now. However there is one small benefit in using a second vessel with BIAB - you save a small amount of time. Instead of slowly heating your full volume from mash temp to mash-out temp, you can just dump your second volume of near-boiling water into the mash and you pretty much step straight up to mash-out temp. It's up to you whether fifteen minutes is worth using an extra vessel.

Try both ways. You'll soon decide which you prefer.


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## cozmocracker (29/5/09)

I have a new question, i tried to remove tap by undoing nut on the inside of the urn, it wouldnt budge. i was applying enough pressure that the urn wall started to warp so i stopped. some help would be greatly appreciated so i can clean the gunk out. and yes i was undoing the nut in the right direction.

cheers cozmo


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## chappo1970 (29/5/09)

Cozmo,

Probably find the silicon tape or alikes has bound up. Get a bit of pipe that fits over the handle of your spanner. It will allow you to apply greater torque but also room for a short sharp blow with a hammer. Simply put some pressure on the nut and give it a good sharp whack. That should loose the sucker.

Or whack about 5lt of water in there and let it heat up a little say 50C just don't run the tap and be careful not to scald yourself mate and do as above. 

Cheers


Chappo


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## cozmocracker (29/5/09)

thanks chappo i will give that a go, i would hate to ruin my new urn or ruin a batch of beer because i couldnt clean the tap properly.


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## chappo1970 (29/5/09)

cozmocracker said:


> thanks chappo i will give that a go, i would hate to ruin my new urn or ruin a batch of beer because i couldnt clean the tap properly.




Amen to that Cozmo! :icon_cheers:


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## captaincleanoff (24/6/09)

you guys think its safe to leave the urn out in the rain?

I dont really have anywhere to store it inside.

The only bit i am worried about is the temperature dial. Does anyone know if it is waterproofed?


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## crundle (24/6/09)

captaincleanoff said:


> you guys think its safe to leave the urn out in the rain?
> 
> I dont really have anywhere to store it inside.
> 
> The only bit i am worried about is the temperature dial. Does anyone know if it is waterproofed?



I wouldn't leave it outside uncovered, but if you have no other option than to store it outside, then I would cover it with a large plastic garbage bag in the interim to protect it from the rain, until you find something to cover it with that wont break down in the sunlight (not sure how long garbage bags these days can take sunlight).

I am assuming the dial is not waterproof, and I take fairly good care to ensure it doesn't get too wet when cleaning it after a brew session.

cheers,

Crundle


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## chappo1970 (24/6/09)

crundle said:


> I wouldn't leave it outside uncovered, but if you have no other option than to store it outside, then I would cover it with a large plastic garbage bag in the interim to protect it from the rain, until you find something to cover it with that wont break down in the sunlight (not sure how long garbage bags these days can take sunlight).
> 
> I am assuming the dial is not waterproof, and I take fairly good care to ensure it doesn't get too wet when cleaning it after a brew session.
> 
> ...



+1 Garbage bag or tarp. Certainly wouldn't expose it to the elements.

Cheers

Chappo

Edit: Speelinkz


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## Pollux (24/6/09)

I have hosed the outside of mine a few times, doesn't seem to have affected any of the electrics.

I'm seriously tempted to find a sparkie who can bypass whatever switch it is that makes the element turn on and off constantly during a boil, it's really staring to piss me off....


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## captaincleanoff (24/6/09)

yeh.. i've only used it once, and this pissed me off too


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## afromaiko (30/9/09)

Can anyone please tell me:

1. the litres of dead space below the sightglass?

2. the litres of dead space below the tap?

Cheers


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## Pollux (30/9/09)

I know that if you leave the tap open and let it drain the point where it ceases to drain leaves 2L behind.....

No idea on the sight glass.


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## crundle (30/9/09)

afromaiko said:


> Can anyone please tell me:
> 
> 1. the litres of dead space below the sightglass?
> 
> ...



I marked my urn in 5 litre increments with cold water when I got it, and I used my fermenter to measure out those 5 litres each time, so at least for cold water it should be fairly accurate.

I find that where the sightglass finishes I still have about 15 litres in the urn, and about 2 litres below the tap (I tilt to get it all out and filter the last 2 litres through a pool filter to use as a starter or reintroduce to the cube if my final volume was a bit low.

Hope that helps,

Crundle


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## afromaiko (30/9/09)

Thanks for the info. 

15L, wow that's heaps below the sight glass that you can't measure then. I didn't realise it would be that much. 

So in order to measure out the mash in water for a single batch it seems like you'd need to heat up about 30 litres.


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## Thirsty Boy (30/9/09)

There was a whole thread about how to fix this issue with the crown urns - including pictures on how to make the mod etc. I believe that Lethalcorpse even ran his eyes over the pictures of the mod and failed to pronounce it a deathtrap - so that's confidence inspiring. Here's the thread. - A fix for Crown Urn Boiling issues - Naturally, I recommend you get a sparkie to perform this operation... as with any electrical work.

As for point 3 - should you mash with a more "normal" L:G ratio.... well, it will make your life a little harder and more complex, and I don't think you will get any better beer as a result. But you could if you wanted, seeing as you already have a 20L urn.

If you just add the extra water at the end, and dont use it as a separate "sparge" step you would get:

A quick change to the mashout/lauter temp
Whatever possible benefit there is to mashing with a "normal" L:G (I believe minimal to none)
Probably slightly lower efficiency than if you mashed with the whole volume

If you sparge with the reserved volume of water. You would be best served by either dunk sparging or batch sparging (drain the liquid, add more, stir and drain again) - the bags are not the appropriate tool for continuous sparging and if you try to pour the liquid through them... they sparge quite poorly. You would get :

Slightly better efficiency (maybe)
The ability to do bigger batches, longer boils or higher gravity beers (less volume in the tun at any given point)
Faster ramp to mashout (but not as fast as the other option)
The need for another vessel (just a bucket) if you choose batch rather than dunk sparge (might still need it for the dunk??)

Or something like that anyway - you are lucky, you already have the 20L urn so your life is full of options. I suggest you start with some nice stock BIAB brews, learn how your urn works and just get a few under your belt. THEN... try everything.

At a guess, I reckon you might end up with a process that resembles BribieG's. That would be pretty easy for you to do and is obviously effective given the medals that Bribies has been winning recently.

For me - BIAB works remarkably well in its simplest form, so I wouldn't bother with any sparging or other mucking about, unless you have a concrete reason for it. But you get to try em all without extra expense.. so have fun!

TB


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## smollocks (30/9/09)

My measurements on the Crown urn show about 8L left under the sightglass. I only have confidence in my measurements to the nearest litre or two, but there's no way it's 15L! 

Since Thirsty Boy has brought up the electrical modification to get a stronger boil from the Crown urn, I'll just say again that I've now done 5 AG brews on the Crown urn, each with a 90 minute boil, and have experienced this problem only once. The boil is strong and consistent and my evaporation rate is reproducible at 11%. It seems to have become accepted fact around here, but to my knowledge there are only 5 people or fewer who have experienced the cutting off boil, and it probably warrants further investigation.


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## EK (30/9/09)

As a 40L Crown Urn BIAB'er:
1. No need to worry about the sight glass, I don't think that amount of water would be a problem, especially if you no chill.
2. I use the standard tap and add some silicon hose from Ross/Craftbrewer and secure it with a hose clamp from the hardware store. I clean it well and I put it on before I brew. I coil it up into a small ice cream bucket to keep it clean while brewing. Then I uncoil it into a jerry for no chilling/water bath chilling.
3. Don't know enough to comment on this one. I add all the water at the beginning and go from there. I have only got 3 AG BIAB brews behind me at the moment, so I will leave this for more experienced brewers to answer.
4. I use a teflon safe scourer to remove anything stubborn and just boil and wipe to remove the rest...I clean it pretty quickly after I empty the urn.




crundle said:


> I marked my urn in 5 litre increments with cold water when I got it, and I used my fermenter to measure out those 5 litres each time, so at least for cold water it should be fairly accurate.
> 
> I find that where the sightglass finishes I still have about 15 litres in the urn, and about 2 litres below the tap (I tilt to get it all out and filter the last 2 litres through a pool filter to use as a starter or reintroduce to the cube if my final volume was a bit low.
> 
> ...


I marked my urn in 5L increments as well...though the first mark on the sight glass is a little above the start of it and that is the 10L mark. There should only be about 2L below the tap, but I'd say about 7 or 8L below the sight.

:icon_cheers: 
EK


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## crundle (30/9/09)

Ah crap, in that case I will have to go out and test it again tomorrow to check my measurements, though it wont change the amount of water I mash in, but would be nice to know what it reads a bit more accurately.

Crundle


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## EK (30/9/09)

crundle said:


> Ah crap, in that case I will have to go out and test it again tomorrow to check my measurements, though it wont change the amount of water I mash in, but would be nice to know what it reads a bit more accurately.
> 
> Crundle


I used a carbouy with litre marks cast into the side of it for the measurements. It seemed accurate enough.

:icon_cheers: 
EK


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## Pollux (1/10/09)

smollocks said:


> Since Thirsty Boy has brought up the electrical modification to get a stronger boil from the Crown urn, I'll just say again that I've now done 5 AG brews on the Crown urn, each with a 90 minute boil, and have experienced this problem only once. The boil is strong and consistent and my evaporation rate is reproducible at 11%. It seems to have become accepted fact around here, but to my knowledge there are only 5 people or fewer who have experienced the cutting off boil, and it probably warrants further investigation.



For what it's worth, I never noticed the cutting out at first, but for some reason the more brews I did the worse the boil got.....No idea why, I scrub the inside after after brew so it shouldn't be a build up of gunk.....


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## crundle (1/10/09)

Pollux said:


> For what it's worth, I never noticed the cutting out at first, but for some reason the more brews I did the worse the boil got.....No idea why, I scrub the inside after after brew so it shouldn't be a build up of gunk.....



It has done it on and off with my urn for every brew it seems, sometimes it would be boiling quite nicely then just stop and cool down a bit, to start up again. Now with the mod no such issues, it boils constantly and strongly. I agree it is unlikely to be gunk buildup on the base causing the issue, and I make sure to clean the temperature sensor after each brew also.

Crundle


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## bullsneck (1/10/09)

Re: Measuring the amount of water below the tap/sightglass.

You could weigh the empty urn. Then fill to just below the tap, weigh again and record. Fill to the sightglass, weigh and record.

1L = 1kg so just do the conversion.


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## bullsneck (1/10/09)

Just don't forget to take-away the weight of the urn!


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## Mikedub (18/5/11)

(I gotta tell someone) 

woohoo, I pick up my new 40L Crown Urn tonight on the way home,


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## Bribie G (18/5/11)

Gotta bag yet? :icon_chickcheers:


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## Mikedub (18/5/11)

yep, 
will also need to pick up a cube this weekend, 

goodbye 20L pot teetering in an icebath - hello no chill


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## Mikedub (21/5/11)

taking my new shiny urn for its first run today, 5.2kg grain, 90m mash at 66, 
#*[email protected]#...an intimidating OG1.036, (adjusted for temp) efficiency at 50%, might have to break the no drinking while brewing rule

...now where did I put that DME :angry:


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## Bribie G (21/5/11)

Mike, I'd double check that hydro - what does it read in cold plain water? <_<


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## Mikedub (21/5/11)

cheers, checked it, its 1.000, 
only lost 0.5 degree during mash, 33L strike water, sparged 3L at 75, OG measured 1.024 @54degress, so Beer Smith gives me 1.037 @20 degrees, I've miscalulated somewhere, I used 750g (18%) Minute Oats, perhaps they didnt shed their goodness like Id hoped


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## Bribie G (21/5/11)

Strange - what malt and crush? Was it crushed at the shop or did you do it?


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## Mikedub (21/5/11)

I crushed only 300g chocolate, 
MOtter, RB, crystal all shop milled, +oats
tasting good though,


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## Bribie G (21/5/11)

Still a puzzle, but I'd mill my own (assuming you have a full size mill) - If the current batch tastes ok and you want to up the ABV% I'd probably slide in 500 of dex, which is pretty neutral, rather than LDME which will possibly give a twang.


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## Mikedub (21/5/11)

thanks, good advice


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## hazard (7/12/12)

I got a new 40L crown urn, concealed element, yesterday, gee it looks so nice and shiny and pretty, can't wait to use it.

But a quick question about no-chill. I have previously done a no-chill in my old kettle, sometimes chucked it in the bath tub, once or twice just left it sitting on the stove (takes at least 24 hours to cool down that way). I can't be bothered using a cube, and I want to pitch as soon as i can after boiling wort, i assume that there is no reason I can't continue to no chill right there in the urn. And pitch next day - I reckon if I put a fermenter under the tap and opened it up, there should be enough splashing going on to aerate the wort during the trasnfer. Anybody else use this approach? Any reason not to?

Thanks, Hazard


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## Amber Fluid (7/12/12)

I know some people have successfully wrapped their urn up in glad wrap until the next day. Personally I wouldn't but others have got away with it. All this will do imo is provide a higher risk of a failure. Nevertheless, you could do as you say provided you wrap the urn up and understand you will be incorporating a bigger risk factor.

Chances are you will get away with it but as I indicated, it just depends how willing you are to take a bigger risk.


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## squirt in the turns (7/12/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> I know some people have successfully wrapped their urn up in glad wrap until the next day. Personally I wouldn't but others have got away with it. All this will do imo is provide a higher risk of a failure. Nevertheless, you could do as you say provided you wrap the urn up and understand you will be incorporating a bigger risk factor.
> 
> Chances are you will get away with it but as I indicated, it just depends how willing you are to take a bigger risk.



I've never done this, but I think it has been a pretty popular practice among homebrewers at various points in history. The addition of the HDPE cube is a fairly recent recent innovation, no/slow chill in general is a pretty old school method.

I think NickJD does this with some of his stove top BIABs.

One problem is that while a cube will contract quite happily as the contents cool, an urn will be inclined to draw in atmosphere, which could be bad, depending on what's floating around in the air at your place. If you really seal it up well with glad wrap, you could face other problems, like this: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869

In that instance, there was a lot of headspace. Obviously gas contracts a lot more than liquid when it cools. With a larger volume in the kettle, you'd probably be ok. Maybe.

That said, how much do a cube and a length of silicone hose cost? For the peace of mind and the flexibility it offers, I'd say it's the best option.


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## bignath (7/12/12)

hazard said:


> I got a new 40L crown urn, concealed element, yesterday, gee it looks so nice and shiny and pretty, can't wait to use it.
> 
> But a quick question about no-chill. I have previously done a no-chill in my old kettle, sometimes chucked it in the bath tub, once or twice just left it sitting on the stove (takes at least 24 hours to cool down that way). I can't be bothered using a cube, and I want to pitch as soon as i can after boiling wort, i assume that there is no reason I can't continue to no chill right there in the urn. And pitch next day - I reckon if I put a fermenter under the tap and opened it up, there should be enough splashing going on to aerate the wort during the trasnfer. Anybody else use this approach? Any reason not to?
> 
> Thanks, Hazard



If you've already done it in your old kettle, what difference do you think it will make if your kettle is now an urn?

EDIT:
Besides, I'd rather clean my kettle as soon as possible rather than let the scum ring dry and harden overnight. 

No chill works cause it's simple. I don't see why everyone wants to make it harder all the time.


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## Truman42 (7/12/12)

Ive done no chill before in my urn. After whirlpool I covered the top with glad wrap and poked a hole in the middle which I covered with some cotton balls. Because they are sterile they will filter the air getting sucked into the urn as the wort cools.
Then once cooled just drained slowly into my fermenter though a sterile strainer to make the wort splash about.


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## Amber Fluid (7/12/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> I've never done this, but I think it has been a pretty popular practice among homebrewers at various points in history. The addition of the HDPE cube is a fairly recent recent innovation, no/slow chill in general is a pretty old school method.
> 
> I think NickJD does this with some of his stove top BIABs.
> 
> ...



Wow... that urn in the link looks like it's been hit by a truck!!... nevertheless, my comment stands....

Just a short list of a few people who do it or don't advise strongly against it from here:
#1
#2
#3 even though not an urn
#4
#5 although I believe doesn't do it but advised it should be fine


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## hazard (7/12/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> I've never done this, but I think it has been a pretty popular practice among homebrewers at various points in history. The addition of the HDPE cube is a fairly recent recent innovation, no/slow chill in general is a pretty old school method.
> 
> I think NickJD does this with some of his stove top BIABs.
> 
> ...


Wow thanks for the link. I'm gonna buy some home brand cling wrap, i didn't realise Glad wrap was so strong!


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## mikec (7/12/12)

squirt in the turns said:


> If you really seal it up well with glad wrap, you could face other problems, like this: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869


No way stainless steel collapses before the glad wrap stretches and/or breaks. I call bullshit on that thread.


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## twizt1d (7/12/12)

glad wrap wouldnt have had much chance to stretch, sounds like it just acted as a gasket when the lid was put on
the final layer over the top would have been the nail in the coffin, the vent holes are tiny and glad wrap would have handled the vacuum no problem


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## Bribie G (7/12/12)

A problem you could face is the urn tap and the sight tube. both of them can get organic matter lodged in them and neither area gets a full temperature boil. If you promptly and thoroughly clean the urn every time you would no doubt get away with NC in urn most of the time. Myself, of the 4 brews I have tipped in my career 1 was from using supermarket ice in a partial, 1 from NC in a Birko urn and 2 from cube infections. 

Now you could surmise from those results that NC in urn is thus safer than cubes. However if you take into account the 200 or so cubed brews and my solitary NC in urn experiment the stats come out otherwise. 

I must say that the Crown tap has a much smoother internal structure than the Birko with fewer places for gunk to accumulate (such as the rotten hop remnant in the Birko that time).

As it is a newie why not consider fitting a 3 piece ball valve that you can take apart? Also remember to give the sight tube a rinse through with PBW often. I reckon you should be good.


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## Spork (7/12/12)

I've been "no chilling" in my urn (Crown, concealed element) for a while now, and (touch wood) no problems.
I chuck a clean towel over the lid, lets air in, but I guess acts as a kind of filter to keep bugs out.


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## Muscovy_333 (7/12/12)

No offence but I highly doubt a towel or any other contraption would actually filter out bacteria unless they are very fine pores and designed to do such a thing. 
Not to say you could not practise as suggested at all, but I feel obliged to address the misconception that these devices are 'filtering' bacteria out.
2c


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## squirt in the turns (8/12/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> Wow... that urn in the link looks like it's been hit by a truck!!... nevertheless, my comment stands....



I wasn't disputing your point, AF, just offering some advice about a potential pitfall. I don't know of anyone else who's managed to achieve what I did with that urn. Still, I thought I'd offer up some evidence of what can happen when atmospheric pressure goes up against a lot of contracting vapour in a sealed headspace. With 20 L or so of liquid obviously the chances of that happening are a lot smaller.

Considering the cost of a cube, though, I'd encourage hazard to just do it "properly", if no-chill is a permanent long term solution. Hell, $50 gets you a FWK _in_ a perfectly good reusable cube. It'd be tricky making 20 L of decent AG beer and buying a cube for less.



hazard said:


> Wow thanks for the link. I'm gonna buy some home brand cling wrap, i didn't realise Glad wrap was so strong!



It was "VitaFresh" brand, ultra-wide stuff that I got from a specialist catering outlet. It was the only place I could find cling wrap wide enough to comfortably seal a fermenter (with some "extra" for those really vigorous ferments). 



mikec said:


> No way stainless steel collapses before the glad wrap stretches and/or breaks. I call bullshit on that thread.



Sorry, mikec, but it happened (and it pissed me off!)

Here's the urn as it is now, after I did my best to whack it back into shape.. You can see that it's still pretty misshapen, but it works.







tonesbrew said:


> glad wrap wouldnt have had much chance to stretch, sounds like it just acted as a gasket when the lid was put on
> the final layer over the top would have been the nail in the coffin, the vent holes are tiny and glad wrap would have handled the vacuum no problem



Yep, I reckon that's what happened. The lid actually "popped" inward too.


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