# Rehydrating.....hurrah



## reegs210 (7/4/15)

Well.....after a long time, I finally started rehydrating my yeast, rather than just pitching. Hesitant, mainly due to laziness. Hey, it's a long brew day after all, and after several pints, it always seemed too much of a chore

I'm now a convert. My yeast kicks off so much quicker! The activity within the first 24 hours is not like I've experienced on previous brews

So simple, and the extra half hour to prepare for rehydrating is well worth it

For the doubters, give it a go...


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## Adr_0 (7/4/15)

Welcome... may all your wildest dry yeast dreams now come true.

I read somewhere that the water for rehydrating should be ~10x the mass of yeast and 'not cold'. Still very subjective but I thought good advice as I'm sure once or twice I made it a little too warm. After letting sit for 15min, then stirring every 5min or so after that for 15-20min it's nice to have the delicious yeast cream.

Just don't tell DBS...


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## Ducatiboy stu (7/4/15)

h34r:


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## Kingy (7/4/15)

Ive gave it a go many times, yes it works but so does not rehydrating. Its always finished for me in the end and i cant taste the difference. I like doing the scientific thing and do the rehydrate every now and then on a rainy day when im bored but.
Edit. Spell check being a bitch tonight


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## Yob (7/4/15)

Oh shit.. Here we go, I'll be back, need popcorn and beer


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## Danscraftbeer (7/4/15)

Actually I've always believed in the Starter. It proves the Yeast is alive and active.
The only times I've dry pitched yeast it was a failed brew.
The best beers I've made brew out fast within hours of pitching the Active yeast, then in 3 days for most part,
and sit for ~around ~2 weeks.
I stir plate every yeast now. It like insurance for your efforts.


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## Kingy (7/4/15)

You stir plate dry yeast as well?


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## MastersBrewery (7/4/15)

Ok re-hydrate if you must; but when you do re-hydrate in wort, in a flask, on a stir plate, for 12-24 hours


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## Ducatiboy stu (7/4/15)

Yob said:


> Oh shit.. Here we go, I'll be back, need popcorn and beer


Yeah...I'm going to come back in about 15 pages


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## Danscraftbeer (7/4/15)

MastersBrewery said:


> Ok re-hydrate if you must; but when you do re-hydrate in wort, in a flask, on a stir plate, for 12-24 hours


Making a starter is the habit on brew day. Stir plate hours between 2 to 18 hours (depending on activities).


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## reegs210 (8/4/15)

not meaning to stir up past debates, just pleased at results in switching my method of pitching yeast


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## kaiserben (13/4/15)

I gave rehydrating a go yesterday. M44.

I thought I knew what I was doing, but it didn't really thicken up at all (it got plenty milky and frothy, but not creamy). Sound normal?

Pitched it at 6pm and no air-lock activity as at 15 hours later. (although the air temp in my ferment chamber seems to have risen by a couple of degrees, which could indicate activity is underway). Hopefully it'll be in full swing by the time I get home this evening.


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## stm (13/4/15)

Danscraftbeer said:


> The only times I've dry pitched yeast it was a failed brew.


Maybe you need to look at your yeast storage process moreso than you pitching process.


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## Adr_0 (13/4/15)

kaiserben said:


> I gave rehydrating a go yesterday. M44.
> 
> I thought I knew what I was doing, but it didn't really thicken up at all (it got plenty milky and frothy, but not creamy). Sound normal?
> 
> Pitched it at 6pm and no air-lock activity as at 15 hours later. (although the air temp in my ferment chamber seems to have risen by a couple of degrees, which could indicate activity is underway). Hopefully it'll be in full swing by the time I get home this evening.


You should get a cream if you go only 10x the yeast weight in water, i.e. 100mL for a pack of M44. Sprinkle on water, cover and leave for 15min, then stir every 2-3min for 5-10min and you should have a nice cream.

Person'ly, I like to DEhydrate my liquid yeasts to get the best results...


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## Danscraftbeer (13/4/15)

More to my experience (Ale) a fast ferment is the best, (carefully handled) starter for any yeast, wet or dry kicks it all off.
My Beer brews are obviously popping the airlock after ~ around 8 Hours...- 
Usuall scenario Pitched active yeast late at night, shaken wort to the shithouse for pfff at least ~2 min,
Airlock bubbling well by the morning and full speed by that afternoon (~15 hours) Ales at 18 to 20 celsius.
They brew flat out for 2 days. Then let sit basically idle for aww around 12 to 30 days until I get around to kegging or bottling them. :drinks:


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## zeggie (13/4/15)

My last 2 brews have kicked off quicker sprinkling the yeast on without rehydrating *shrugs*


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## kaiserben (14/4/15)

Adr_0 said:


> You should get a cream if you go only 10x the yeast weight in water, i.e. 100mL for a pack of M44. Sprinkle on water, cover and leave for 15min, then stir every 2-3min for 5-10min and you should have a nice cream.


Hmm. I used more like 200ml of water. Left it for only 5 mins before stirring. And then probably stirred too much/constantly. 

I've rehydrated successfully before, but it's been a while (a decade). 

Anyway, I'm finally starting to get some air lock activity after 30 hours.


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## dicko (14/4/15)

Most yeast manufacturers recommend warmer water for re hydration.
It is also recommended to attemperate the yeast slurry by adding small amounts of the wort that you are going to pitch it into as well until it is close to the wort temp.
This is pretty important with lagers if you have the wort down around 12 deg c.


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## Adr_0 (14/4/15)

kaiserben said:


> Hmm. I used more like 200ml of water. Left it for only 5 mins before stirring. And then probably stirred too much/constantly.
> I've rehydrated successfully before, but it's been a while (a decade).
> 
> Anyway, I'm finally starting to get some air lock activity after 30 hours.


By the sounds of this, your beer is totally ruined. Throw everything out and start from scratch as there is no possible hope of making his beer from this horrible, failed rehydration.

I'm a stickler for following the rules and the advice of scientists (the 15min, 1:10, stirring, water that's not cold, using tap water wit minerals rather than distilled) but that's just who I am - we're getting into some serious anecdotal territory here. I do trust the guys who make our dried yeast and follow their instructions but I'm not sure that stirring/not stirring or 15min/5min will give your beer another 5 points in a comp or make your beer slightly more delicious.


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## The Holy Ale (14/4/15)

kaiserben said:


> I gave rehydrating a go yesterday. M44.
> 
> I thought I knew what I was doing, but it didn't really thicken up at all (it got plenty milky and frothy, but not creamy). Sound normal?
> 
> Pitched it at 6pm and no air-lock activity as at 15 hours later. (although the air temp in my ferment chamber seems to have risen by a couple of degrees, which could indicate activity is underway). Hopefully it'll be in full swing by the time I get home this evening.


I found this as well until I started using warmer water to rehydrate. All the texts I found said to use water between 35-40C but I wouldn't believe it as I thought that was way to high. I finally tried after having the same issue you have had and sure enough it worked like a charm.

Yeast taking off and lively in 37C water for 30mins and kick on in the wort in no time.


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## Bribie G (14/4/15)

As mentioned on many threads, the basic underpinning argument is that if you rehydrate yeast cells in wort a fair few of them will die due to osmosis and cell walls rupturing and I'd guess the degree of damage depends on the gravity of the wort. I've also had good results just sprinkling.. of course you are going to get a fermentation and for many Woolies kit users the instruction under the lid is to sprinkle as, for many, once you mention something four syllable like re-hyd-ra-tion their eyes are going to glaze over immediately.

Rehydrating in warm water wakes the bubs all up gently. Dried yeast is different to liquid yeast in that the cells are pre-primed with lipids etc, as a result of the special manufacturing process, and are ready to rock, whilst liquid yeasts need to go through the lag phase and kick in a bit later.

Nearly everything I know about yeast comes from the "Yeast" book, as well as a fantastic lecture at the Brisbane Brewing conference in 2011 by Whitelabs 2.I.C.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (14/4/15)

I've rehydrated and had good results, I have been wondering what pitching the warmer rehydrated yeast cream (haven't measured the actual temp but I assume it would be around 25-30C by the time I pitched it) into wort at around 20C which would be the ferment temp would do in terms of shocking it? Or are the preprimed lipids of dry yeast what assist against the temp shock?


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## kaiserben (14/4/15)

Adr_0 said:


> By the sounds of this, your beer is totally ruined. Throw everything out and start from scratch as there is no possible hope of making his beer from this horrible, failed rehydration.
> 
> I'm a stickler for following the rules and the advice of scientists (the 15min, 1:10, stirring, water that's not cold, using tap water wit minerals rather than distilled) but that's just who I am - we're getting into some serious anecdotal territory here. I do trust the guys who make our dried yeast and follow their instructions but I'm not sure that stirring/not stirring or 15min/5min will give your beer another 5 points in a comp or make your beer slightly more delicious.


Ha! Easy now! I just want to know why my rehydrated yeast didn't go creamy, and if non-creaminess means my efforts were wasted, and if I've missed something obvious. 

As it is, my air-lock activity seems to have taken about the same length of time as it would have if I'd just sprinkled.


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## kaiserben (14/4/15)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> I've rehydrated and had good results, I have been wondering what pitching the warmer rehydrated yeast cream (haven't measured the actual temp but I assume it would be around 25-30C by the time I pitched it) into wort at around 20C which would be the ferment temp would do in terms of shocking it? Or are the preprimed lipids of dry yeast what assist against the temp shock?


I'm clearly no expert, but from what I've read you can attemperate your starter by either adding small amounts of water at wort temp, or even small amounts of wort. A youtube vid I watched said if it's within 15F of the wort temp then you won't have to worry. (so what's that? Less than 9.5C difference is okay).


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## fraser_john (14/4/15)

The Holy Ale said:


> I found this as well until I started using warmer water to rehydrate. All the texts I found said to use water between 35-40C but I wouldn't believe it as I thought that was way to high. I finally tried after having the same issue you have had and sure enough it worked like a charm.
> 
> Yeast taking off and lively in 37C water for 30mins and kick on in the wort in no time.


The attached spreadsheet was gleaned from each product info sheet from each manufacturer, it shows the brand, the yeast strain, recommended rehydration temperature, a +/- value around that temp eg. 25c +/- 3c

View attachment Rehydration Temperatures.xlsx


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## kaiserben (14/4/15)

Could someone tell me- 

If, when sprinkling my M44, it usually takes ~36 hours to see air lock activity, how might I expect that time to change when (successfully) rehydrating?


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## The Holy Ale (14/4/15)

fraser_john said:


> The attached spreadsheet was gleaned from each product info sheet from each manufacturer, it shows the brand, the yeast strain, recommended rehydration temperature, a +/- value around that temp eg. 25c +/- 3c
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a handy spreadsheet. I did find when I rehydrated US05 around the 27C mark the yeast seemed to sink and showed little activity such as forming a "cream" etc.

My 35-40C numbers came from "How to Brew" and other articles online. All recommended higher temps than the manufactures. 

I'll definitely be looking into it further and might check out the Yeast book Bribe G recommends


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## Croc_TFNQ (14/4/15)

I am a total novice to home brewing my first brew was a pimped GB and I knew absolutely nothing.

Just put my second GB in the FV, and, this time I had read and received tons of good advice from many on this great Brewing site, and I rehydrated my yeast just in warm water no wort after a fair bit of research, finally sealed off the FV last night around 1930hrs this morning at 0700hrs it was going like a steam train constant bubbling in the airlock and I mean constant no break at all and does not look like slowing if anything it has increaed through the day. 

I am a happy brewer so far :chug:


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## The Holy Ale (14/4/15)

That's awesome. Nothing beats trying something new and getting good results. Happy brewing


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## Bribie G (14/4/15)

kaiserben said:


> Could someone tell me-
> 
> If, when sprinkling my M44, it usually takes ~36 hours to see air lock activity, how might I expect that time to change when (successfully) rehydrating?


No doubt for the better.


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## fraser_john (15/4/15)

The Holy Ale said:


> That's a handy spreadsheet. I did find when I rehydrated US05 around the 27C mark the yeast seemed to sink and showed little activity such as forming a "cream" etc.
> 
> My 35-40C numbers came from "How to Brew" and other articles online. All recommended higher temps than the manufactures.
> 
> I'll definitely be looking into it further and might check out the Yeast book Bribe G recommends


If the Yeast book is a must for brewers really interested in making sure they understand the fermentation process and how yeast works. A great read.


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## kaiserben (15/4/15)

Is the Yeast book the one by Jamil & Chris White? ie _Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation_


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## DJ_L3ThAL (15/4/15)

Yep!


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## Bradgc (19/7/15)

I've also started hydrating yeast, I pour boiling water over 1 tsp sugar and cover till warm, then add the yeast. It usually takes about 24+ hours to get activity out of dry yeast in my wort, as opposed to 12 hours when using hydrated yeast


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## manticle (19/7/15)

No need for sugar. Follow manufacturer's instructions (differ slightly between brands).


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## danestead (20/7/15)

I rehydrate yeast (and have only every rehydrated yeast, unless u count half a dozen brews when I was 18) for the only reason of getting a more accurate pitch amount. Rehydrating gives apparently almost 100% survival rate where pitching dry gives a pretty vague 50% survival rate. Pitching as accurate an amount of yeast every time gives me consistency so I can focus on other variables.


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## Gelding (20/7/15)

> Rehydrating gives apparently almost 100% survival rate where pitching dry gives a pretty vague 50% survival rate.



Is this referenced from the "yeast" book ?


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## Rocker1986 (20/7/15)

I rehydrate dry yeast too. I noticed the fermentations start to kick off quicker and be a bit more vigorous than sprinkling it dry, once I started doing it. Nowadays I throw it into a starter after rehydrating, not necessary I know, but I do it in order to harvest yeast from the starter. Not saying everybody should start doing that, but it's been working well for me so far.


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## danestead (20/7/15)

Gelding said:


> Is this referenced from the "yeast" book ?


No idea but I've read both the yeast book and how to brew and listened to about 100 podcasts by John palmer, Zamil and brad Smith. Usually I try to remember the stuff from credible sources and take the heresay with a grain of salt. So sorry, I don't know which exact source.


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## Blind Dog (20/7/15)

Gelding said:


> Is this referenced from the "yeast" book ?


Yes - section heading is 'working with dried yeast' (no idea of page number as it's the kindle version). you apparently get the same 'kill rate' if you rehydrate with room temp water.

Personally, using that book and other sources, I rehydrate at circa 35C in a sanitised zip lock bag using 10ml water per g of yeast, and sit that in a small pot of 35C water and let it come down to close to pitching temp - checked by measuring the water bath temp


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## Goose (20/7/15)

I've not had much luck with fermentis s-189 after a few brews trying rehydrating, so decided to bite the bullet and give dry pitching a shot.

I did follow their alternative (to rehydration) instructions which states to sprinkle atop wort at 23 deg C. This I did and I still await the results with baited breath. Four packets atop 10 gallons of wort at around 23 deg C, left it for a couple of hours then set fridge thermostat to 11 deg C. Have not touched it since brewday on July 3. Will test SG and do a forced diacetyl test in next few days and see how it pans out.

Does anybody here brew lagers using dry yeast no rehydrated with any success ?


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## danestead (20/7/15)

Goose, Mikey often dry pitches lagers. He uses twice the packets though.

Yes it's going to be successful however to determine if it makes a difference or not you would probably need a panel of qualified judges to do a side by side test. If however you don't notice a difference on your palate, fill your boots and do whatever you want. Hell, I even know a guy who did a brew day with no sanitising as an experiment and he seems to think it turned out fine.


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## Vini2ton (20/7/15)

I read in a book that better fermentation occurs when the dry yeast is rehydrated, only if the tap on your fermenter faces the equator. No, um, err, I'm mistaken, I'm going to write a book that says that.


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## Brew Forky (20/7/15)

I pitch yeast when I'm hydrated. Did a taste test blind. All good.


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## pist (21/7/15)

Goose said:


> I've not had much luck with fermentis s-189 after a few brews trying rehydrating, so decided to bite the bullet and give dry pitching a shot.
> 
> I did follow their alternative (to rehydration) instructions which states to sprinkle atop wort at 23 deg C. This I did and I still await the results with baited breath. Four packets atop 10 gallons of wort at around 23 deg C, left it for a couple of hours then set fridge thermostat to 11 deg C. Have not touched it since brewday on July 3. Will test SG and do a forced diacetyl test in next few days and see how it pans out.
> 
> Does anybody here brew lagers using dry yeast no rehydrated with any success ?


Pitch mine dry. Dont find much difference when rehydrating and pitching dry. Never had a problem. Use twice the amount as an ale. Dont freak out if it doesn't kick off in 24 hrs or less. Lag time is longer and its not a fast fermenter, youll see what i mean. Bugger all krausen compared to many ale strains


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## slcmorro (22/7/15)

I done both, rehydrated and not. Made **** all appreciable difference in my opinion, but my opinion along with pretty much anyone elses means **** all if you're making beer you enjoy drinking.


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## mje1980 (22/7/15)

slcmorro said:


> I done both, rehydrated and not. Made **** all appreciable difference in my opinion, but my opinion along with pretty much anyone elses means **** all if you're making beer you enjoy drinking.


Yeah, but we're you pitching it left handed or right handed? Massive difference to performance you know.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/7/15)

Also depends on if your a sprinkler or a dumper...


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## Rocker1986 (22/7/15)

Yeah I didn't notice any difference in beer quality from sprinkling vs rehydrating either. I still prefer to rehydrate though, if only to throw it into a starter in order to harvest from it.


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## danestead (23/7/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> Yeah I didn't notice any difference in beer quality from sprinkling vs rehydrating either. I still prefer to rehydrate though, if only to throw it into a starter in order to harvest from it.


That just opened another avenue for discussion...


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/15)

danestead said:


> That just opened another avenue for discussion...


What...Dry v Rehydrated yeast....


Someone started a thread on that I think...... h34r:


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## danestead (23/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What...Dry v Rehydrated yeast....
> 
> 
> Someone started a thread on that I think...... h34r:


Ah, no.

Doing a starter with dry yeast...


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/15)

Thank god for that.


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## wobbly (23/7/15)

This Fermentis PDF indicates (page 6) that it is acceptable to rehydrate in either sterile water or sterile wort I guess the important issue thye make is do it at a certain temperature in a measured vol of water/wort and allow it 30 mins to stabilise before normalising the temperature with the wort you intend pitching it into

The other interesting point is that they state that you should "lower" the temperature if doing a Diacetyl rest on an Ale

http://www.thetinwhisker.net/HCHB/tips_tricks.pdf

Wobbly


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## danestead (23/7/15)

Very interesting wobbly. I'll give that document a good read when I get a chance.


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/15)

wobbly said:


> This Fermentis PDF indicates (page 6) that it is acceptable to rehydrate in either sterile water or sterile wort
> http://www.thetinwhisker.net/HCHB/tips_tricks.pdf
> 
> Wobbly


Once upon a time they all said you should rehydrate with just water....Oh those wise old wizards


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## Vini2ton (23/7/15)

A few hundred years ago, brewer monks only rehydrated their yeast in holy-water.


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## Mardoo (23/7/15)

...and the Druids in urine.


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## Rocker1986 (23/7/15)

danestead said:


> Ah, no.
> 
> Doing a starter with dry yeast...


I know it's not necessary to make starters for dry yeast, and I don't make them from a perspective of growing yeast for the main batch. I've mentioned this in other posts about it as well. The only reason I make them is to harvest some of it for future use, as I harvest yeast from my starters rather than post fermentation of the main batch.

My point was that I rehydrate in water first, before pitching into these starters, which I have been previously advised is fine to do.


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## Tropico (23/7/15)

wobbly said:


> The other interesting point is that they state that you should "lower" the temperature if doing a Diacetyl rest on an Ale


Not the way I read it. Both this pdf and the current one from Fermentis http://en.calameo.com/read/0026934555f07e32293ea indicate to increase temp at end of fermentation to reduce diacetyl.

EDIT: Although their table indicates otherwise


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## danestead (23/7/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> I know it's not necessary to make starters for dry yeast, and I don't make them from a perspective of growing yeast for the main batch. I've mentioned this in other posts about it as well. The only reason I make them is to harvest some of it for future use, as I harvest yeast from my starters rather than post fermentation of the main batch.
> 
> My point was that I rehydrate in water first, before pitching into these starters, which I have been previously advised is fine to do.


Sorry dude I wasn't having a go at you, merely saying that doing starters with dry yeast creates debate from time to time as some people like to do it, some don't.

Sorry if you read it another way.


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## Blind Dog (23/7/15)

wobbly said:


> This Fermentis PDF indicates (page 6) that it is acceptable to rehydrate in either sterile water or sterile wort I guess the important issue thye make is do it at a certain temperature in a measured vol of water/wort and allow it 30 mins to stabilise before normalising the temperature with the wort you intend pitching it into
> 
> The other interesting point is that they state that you should "lower" the temperature if doing a Diacetyl rest on an Ale
> 
> ...


I think you're missing the main point as the silhouette figure they show throughout the brochure clearly shows the correct stance that must be taken by all Brewers as they pitch the yeast, or infected you will be.

Although seriously, having read a lot in leaflets from yeast manufacturers, books/articles from supposed yeast experts, Internet hubris and the usual uninformed, optionated tosh, I'm convinced that no one has the faintest clue what happens to yeast if you sprinkle versus if you rehydrate, they just have an opinion. All you've got to do is brew a few batches switching between methods to work out what works for you and stick with it until someone presents an idea / 'evidence' there might be a better way; try it a few times and see if it works for you. If it does, yippee you can change your methods, if it doesn't you still have beer. (And I'm using 'you' not to refer to you personally but to Brewers generally, myself included)


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/7/15)

I dont see the point in making a starter from dried yeast, unless you dont have enough and need to build it up


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## Brew Forky (24/7/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I dont see the point in making a starter from dried yeast, unless you dont have enough and need to build it up


I believe he means that it is a better method to build up a future yeast supply than washing it post fermentation.


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## Rocker1986 (24/7/15)

danestead said:


> Sorry dude I wasn't having a go at you, merely saying that doing starters with dry yeast creates debate from time to time as some people like to do it, some don't.
> 
> Sorry if you read it another way.


Yeah, that's true. No worries mate. 

And yes Stu I don't make starters with dry yeast to build them up, simply for harvesting some of it for the future. I find this method easier than rinsing/washing post fermentation. All I have to do is pick the flask up while it's all mixed up and tip some into a jar.


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