# Fermenting with US05 and T58 - How cold is too cold?



## Cman (9/7/14)

Hey guys

I started extract brewing earlier this year.

I live in Brisbane and have made some nice extract APAs so far fermenting in the ~ 18 – 21 degree range. I have a temp controlled fermenting fridge so all has been well over summer, but ambient temps have been getting down to 5 – 10 degrees overnight lately.

I was just wondering how cold people have gotten away with fermenting? I currently have a porter fermenting with US05 and a (probably extremely inauthentic) Belgian blonde with T58. Both were pitched at around 18 degrees, rising to around 20 at peak fermentation but have now dropped to 15 – 16 degrees (I pitched 10 days ago).

Most of you guys seem to suggest fermenting around 18-20 degrees for US05, but I’m just wondering how low you can get away with.

The low end of the range stated by Fermentis is 12 degrees and the low end of their stated ideal range is 15 degrees. I’m just wondering how likely I am to stall and/or not allow my yeasties to clean up after themselves a bit, particularly because these beers are slightly bigger than I’ve been brewing (1.062 and 1.064 OG).

So my question is… how low can you go? Brisbane brewers, do you find you need heat mats, heat belts etc to properly ferment ales in winter?

Cheers

Cman


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (9/7/14)

I've never used a heat mat in Brisbane. Underneath my brick cavity 1970's Wavell Heights shotgun box was very cool in winter. Had US05 going fine all my last winter there. I've push US05 down to 14-15 degrees, and been fine. Don't forget that especially in confined areas, the heat generated by the brew, will keep it warmer than the air temp.

Not sure about T-58, as I've only used it in Tas in warmer temps. I find with T-58, it throws some lovely bubblegum at 20+ degrees, so you might lose a bit of character, but either way, nothing too bad.

Another option in future might be Nottingham Yeast - I've used it at 12 degrees in a faux-lager and it works excellently at these temps.


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## Beertard (9/7/14)

Mine with us05 had no sign of fermentation at 14° ambient temp. so bordering on too cold, hooked it up with some wamth to 18 and instant action, after a day it's got full krausen.
It was 2 degrees in sunnybank this morning.


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## Beertard (9/7/14)

I'm sure it was fermenting at 14 just with little sign of it, im guessing it would take a bit longer but would get there in the end.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (9/7/14)

Sounds about right. Unless I rehydrate, I never got much of a krausen with US-05, more a thin film that made it look infected from the outside.


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## hwall95 (9/7/14)

I've got two brews currently with Nottingham which from the spec. sheets has the same temperature range as US05, and they are both fermenting happily at 12-16 when I last checked. Although my red ale which started first, has slowed down significantly at 1.020 (hopefully hasn't stalled) so I turned a heat matt on its side in an attempt to warm the surrounding air rather than cook the trub.


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## Beertard (9/7/14)

I've had it go either way with us05, some packets just don't produce krausen some do, this one was pitched dry monday morning and has three inches of krausen.


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## Yob (9/7/14)

15 is too cold IMO for either, T58 you kinda want about 20 and 05 below 16 they won't want to do much 

Plenty of ways to keep a brew warm


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## Cman (9/7/14)

Yeah ok thanks guys.

I’m probably about to invest in a cheap heat belt to put in the ferment fridge, but was just curious to see what other’s experience was.

This will also be relevant to carbonation for me as I bottle and my required bottle conditioning times have spiked in the cooler weather, although so far a bit more patience has still been rewarded with bubbles.

Just tasted the T58 brew and it has thrown some nice pear esters for me, although as I said when it was at peak fermentation it was warmer.

It’s still at 1.019 so if I can drop 4 or 5 more points I’ll be happy.


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## waggastew (9/7/14)

Apart from attenuation (has the yeast fermented at all/fully) the main issue with colder temps is changing the ester profiles. I used to ferment US05 at 17degC to get a cleaner ferment but ended up getting alot of nectarine/diacetyl from yeast stress and limping ferment. I now ferment at 19degC and its really clean and neutral, faster happier ferment.

Lots of ways to keep a brew warm, old doona, put it in a confined space like a cardboard box, put it next to the bed (subject to approval from the Mrs!)


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers (10/7/14)

I just bought a heat belt and am having similar cool conditions - thing is I need to pitch the yeast as its high krausen in the starter, expect the heat belt won't arrive here til Monday in the post. Will it be alright til then?


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## SJW (10/7/14)

Good good healthy US-05 wort should be fermented out in about 3 days. Much longer and its probably a bit too cold. I find no problems fermenting US-05 anywhere from 18 to 21 deg C. I certainly can not notice any diff. Therefore I choose the warmer temp and get it done.


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## Cman (10/7/14)

SJW said:


> Good good healthy US-05 wort should be fermented out in about 3 days. Much longer and its probably a bit too cold.


It’s interesting you say that.

I’ve done half a dozen 23L pale ale 1.050 brews pitching at 18 – 20 degrees. During warmer weather the wort remained pretty stable at around 20 degrees but I still needed 10 - 12 days to reach final gravity (When I say stable though I gather it would spike a bit during peak ferment because my temp controller currently measures the fridge air temp rather than the wort).

I’ve ordered a couple of heat belts and will be putting one to work in the ferment fridge and one in my bottle conditioning cupboard.

I’m enjoying my beer so far, but I’m thinking I might expect a quicker/better end to fermentation if I can make sure the beer doesn’t drop below 18 – 20 once peak fermentation has passed.

I know this is probably old news for a lot of people, but this is my first winter brewing and I thought I might get away without heating in Brisbane but it seems that’s not the case.

Also I’ve been pitching my yeast dry and will try re-hydrating next brew, although I guess that’s a topic for a different (23 page) thread...

I also gather I’d be better off trying to measure wort temperature more directly (rather than fridge air temp), which I’ll look at some time.

Cheers for the input guys, have picked up a lot of good info from the forum so far.

Like so many before me it seems my humble initial goal of making cheap beer has rapidly snowballed into an enormous list of things I NEED to buy like a nice all grain rig, kegerator, grain mill, stir plates, hops farm, cider apple orchard, brew pub etc, etc…


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/7/14)

Cman said:


> Like so many before me it seems my humble initial goal of making cheap beer has rapidly snowballed into an enormous list of things I NEED to buy like a nice all grain rig, kegerator, grain mill, stir plates, hops farm, cider apple orchard, brew pub etc, etc…




Pretty much sums it up. 

AHB - it's Aussie for "expensive ways to make cheap beer".

But so worth it.


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## SJW (10/7/14)

Cman said:


> It’s interesting you say that.
> 
> I’ve done half a dozen 23L pale ale 1.050 brews pitching at 18 – 20 degrees. During warmer weather the wort remained pretty stable at around 20 degrees but I still needed 10 - 12 days to reach final gravity (When I say stable though I gather it would spike a bit during peak ferment because my temp controller currently measures the fridge air temp rather than the wort).
> 
> ...


Good point regarding wort temp. I now drop my probe  sanitised and straight into the wort. As i use a S/S fermanter with cling wrap. I have never been interested in the whole air lock thing. So even in winter down here in Newcastle I pitch about 200mls of US-05 slurry at about 25 deg C. Leave it in the fridge overnight. By the morning its down to 15 or 16, then just take it out and let it warm up to about 18 or 19 in this weather and its done by day 3. The trick is piching a big slurry so it fires within a couple hours. I understand this is not the best method, but I find it does not make any diff with ales. Lagers on the other hand, I like them to have at least 12 hour lag time. Keeps the funky flavours away.

Steve


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## SJW (10/7/14)

Cman said:


> Like so many before me it seems my humble initial goal of making cheap beer has rapidly snowballed into an enormous list of things I NEED to buy like a nice all grain rig, kegerator, grain mill, stir plates, hops farm, cider apple orchard, brew pub etc, etc…


I understand the context of this comment. But for me, if I wanted cheap beer I would just go and buy a case. My hourly rate alone for one brew days labour would buy me plenty of cases of beer. Its easy to make cheap beer. Just get a tin and a kg of sugar. The fact you are doing all grain and kegging shows you are more interested in quality beer rather than just cheap beer.
Like I said when I reviewed and bought the $190 S/S Olive Oil drum for fermenting. Keep everything in perspective. While I love the S/S fermenter I would put the $200 towards first : (in decending order of importance)

* Stainless steel bling
* Braumeister
* Kegging system
* Temperature controled fermenting fridge
* Reliable brewing equipement
* Quality ingredients
* Case of beer

Keep up the good brewing

Steve

*


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers (10/7/14)

Cman said:


> Like so many before me it seems my humble initial goal of making cheap beer has rapidly snowballed into an enormous list of things I NEED to buy like a nice all grain rig, kegerator, grain mill, stir plates, hops farm, cider apple orchard, brew pub etc, etc…


I'm tackling winter brewing also.. I definitely won't be brewing as much, only 1 fermenter at a time. But I bought a heat belt and am thinking of using my bar fridge as a chamber. At the moment I've just wrapped in a thick blanket and put it under the bathroom sink.

Not using US05, but American ale yeast II.

You don't really need that much - I just use a 3v urn, esky lauter tun and a big stock pot/3 burner gas ring. Haven't bothered with a grain mill as craft brewer and my local HBS grinds it for me. Not building rockets here, you can use your own initiative and I'd suggest starting off cheaply when getting into all grain. You'll probably learn more about making nice beer with a semi-ghetto set up than forking out hundreds for all the bells and whistles straight up.


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## Cman (11/7/14)

Steve - I'm not doing all grain or kegging yet, I'm extract brewing and bottling, but will probably move to a basic all grain setup and keg system as soon as funds permit. Maybe BIAB in an urn or an esky mash tun system.

And I agree , it isn't so much about cheap beer as it is good beer that you made yourself. For me it genuinely did start out as an experiment in cheap beer, though it hasn't stayed that way for long.


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## Tahoose (11/7/14)

Cman said:


> And I agree , it isn't so much about cheap beer as it is good beer that you made yourself. For me it genuinely did start out as an experiment in cheap beer, though it hasn't stayed that way for long.


This about sums it up, my average batch of beer costs me roughly $12. 

However, if I need to go to the bottleshop for some reason I'm now spending $25 on 6 beers... I call this research.


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## RobboMC (11/7/14)

Get a cheap heating belt. In order to be a happy brewer you need to be able to heat and cool your fermenter at will.

I also have had a Porter running on US-05 this week. On the second night it got a bit cool at 15 deg so I turned on the heat belt
inside the fridge for 12 hours and boosted the temp to 22 deg, then the fermenting wort took over and kept itself warm.

After 5 days things have subsided of course but it will need some more heat to ensure it all ferments out. Having your ferment go cold at the end is
one of the easiest ways to create bottle bombs. Even if it ferments at 14-15 deg C you really need to have it finish
at 20 deg C to be certain it's all done, and in July getting from 15 to 20 deg C means one thing - a heater.


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## Cman (11/7/14)

And the Keg King heat belts have arrived. Put one in the fridge and will gradually step the temp up to 18 - 20 degrees.

Just 'dry hopped' the porter with 50ml of bourbon infused with 3 vanilla beans.

Hopefully it should attenuate ok now. Pretty impatient keen to see how it turns out.


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## Cman (15/7/14)

Ok, so I will definitely have to agree that 15 - 16 degrees is too cold as my beers look like they may have stalled at 1.019 for the US05 porter (OG1.062) and 1.018 for the T58 Belgian (OG 1.064).

I know this is maybe a bit OT, but rather than starting a new thread, to me these gravities seem borderline but a few points too high, is that right?

Just gave both a gentle tip over to try and re-suspend a bit of yeast. I'm at about day 16 of the ferment. Would giving it a few more days, hoping, and maybe giving them a light swirl each day be the right idea? Maybe think about pitching half a pack of re-hydrated US05 into each in a few days if I don't drop a few more points?

I bottle so I'm a bit wary of bombs.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/7/14)

Better idea would be to bring the beers up to 19-20 degrees and give the fermenters some yeast rousing movement (which is what you're firstly doing anyways). If it's stalled, then this will help knock the last few points off. If you chuck in new yeast, into the same cold, high alcohol environment, they may end up doing the same as your existing yeasties.

When I ferment US05 cold, I rouse the yeast.

It _may_ not have stalled - the mash temp for your porter and belgian may be responsible for it.

Don't forget also that yeasts may stall when they get to 70% attenuation (which yours have) through other factors.

Having said that, it appears as though on face value, it's probably cold.


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## Cman (16/7/14)

Ok so not sure what to do with these brews. Recipes were


Blonde:

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Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
0.25 kg Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) Grain 1 5.7 % 
0.50 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 2 11.5 % 
0.65 kg Pale Liquid Extract (15.8 EBC) Extract 3 14.9 % 
45.00 g Hallertau [4.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 25.5 IBUs 
0.60 kg Candi Sugar, Clear [Boil for 15 min](1.0 Sugar 5 13.8 % 
1.0 pkg SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL/Fermentis #T- Yeast 6 - 
2.35 kg Pale Liquid Extract (15.8 EBC) Extract 7 54.0 % 


Porter:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
0.70 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 1 12.9 % 
0.35 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 2 6.5 % 
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 3 5.5 % 
0.07 kg Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC) Grain 4 1.3 % 
0.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract (15.8 EBC) Extract 5 9.2 % 
35.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.80 %] - Boil Hop 6 32.4 IBUs 
20.00 g Fuggle [4.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 6.6 IBUs 
190.00 g Cocoa Powder (Boil 0.0 mins) Other 8 - 
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 - 
3.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract (15.8 EBC) Extract 10 64.6 % 
3.00 Items Vanilla Pods (Secondary 7.0 days) Other 11 - 


Belgian was extract with steeped grains.

Porter I did a 1 hour mini mash with the Munich and Crystal and separately cold steeped the Roast Barley and Chocolate Malt. Vanilla beans soaked in 50ml of bourbon added at around the 14 day mark.

Both were pitched at around 18-20 degrees and a fairly stable temp maintained over the first few days of fermentation, but the temp then dropped to 15-16 as fermentation slowed.

I put a heat belt in my fermentation fridge about 5 days ago to gradually warm up to 20 degrees and have given the fermenting cubes a bit of light agitation to try and rouse the yeast (getting frustrated I just gave both a gentle tip completely upside down).

But they really haven't moved and are still sitting at about 1018 (blonde) and 1019 (porter).

These gravities are still a little high aren't they? Or would adding shit stuff like cocoa and bourbon to the porter prevent it getting down much further? Am I asking for bottle bombs if I bottle these? Should I try doing a starter with a pack of US05 and feed half to each brew?


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## Cman (18/7/14)

Hey guys

So I know I've wandered a bit off topic from my original question about ferment temps, but these gravities really haven't moved for a week or so. Just wondering if people think it's safe to bottle (I would crack a bottle every week or so to check for gushers)?

Cheers


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## hwall95 (20/7/14)

Hey mate, 

I'm in a similar situation to you, I have a 1.064 porter I put down around 2 and half weeks and so far it's stalled at 1.019 for last week despite being heated to 18 degrees. Have been giving it a gentle swirl every now and then but hasn't done much.. Will probably bottle in a week if it still hasn't moved at all


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## Cman (20/7/14)

Yeah I bottled mine today. Both tasting pretty nice so should hopefully turn out ok as long as they don't explode. I'm just gonna make sure to check a stubby of each in a few days and generally try to keep an eye on the carbonation levels.


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