# Band aid from chlorine or wild yeast?



## Matplat (3/2/16)

Evening all,

I just finished cleaning my FV after tipping out the first batch I've been unable to continue fermenting.

It only had been in there for a week, but the medicinal band aid flavour was overpowering and from everything I've read, it doesn't go away. Hence, lawn food. I have also read that the flavour can come from either wild yeast/bacteria or chlorinated town water.

This is my first batch brewed after moving house, and used town water for the first time, having previously used rain water exclusively. 

I contacted a very helpful bloke at the local water supplier, who confirmed that (along with up to date mineral contents) the water is dis-infected using chlorine. However I also noticed that before i tipped the batch it still had a thick krausen (after 8 days in the fv) and i wondered if that might indicate wild yeast?

Another thing i just noticed is that the fresh spray bottle of star-san that i made up (also with town water for the first time) is cloudy, dont quite know if that means anything...

Recipe was 

96% ale malt
2% carapils
2% caraamber

Cascade @60 to 20IBU 

Fresh pack of rehydrated us05

Mashed at 66 for an hour


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## Jack of all biers (3/2/16)

It'll be the chlorine or chloramines in your town water that's done it and you may be one of those lucky people that are predisposed to being sensitive to chlorophenols.
Not sure infections cause this problem, but maybe.
8 days is not too long and still having krausen is not an indication. Did you test the gravity before tipping it? If so was it close to your expected FG? Or was it wayyyyy under? If it was way under then it might have been an infection. Maybe.

Can't explain your cloudy star san.


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## Camo6 (4/2/16)

How does the town water taste? You could always invest in a 2 or 3 stage filter to clean it up.
The only time I had a band aid/ clove taste was from my first attempt at reculturing yeast from commercial beer which I put down to poor practice/infection.


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## warnerbrew (4/2/16)

Hi matplat,

I experienced this when I moved from k&k to all grain. Every batch had a band aid smell and a strong plastic chemical taste. After weeks of frustration and multiple lawn food batches, advice from local brew club was chlorine in the water. 

Bought a carbon filter from the big green shed, run that into my grainfather slowly, add 1/2 a Camden tablet and have not had a bad batch since.


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## Yob (4/2/16)

chlorine will drop out overnight, fill the HLT the day before and you should see an improvement.

Cloudy Starsan means that its losing its ability and the PH is moving out of range. To fix this, use boiled cooled water for the spray bottle, if its still cloudy then you have too much residual hardness in the water and will need to fix that.


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## Reman (4/2/16)

Chlorine will drop out overnight but chloramines won't. Add a pinch of potassium metabisulfate AKA campden tablets to your water and the effect is almost instantaneous.

The other source of band aid that I experienced was cleaning with bleach (or napisan) and not rinsing it out thouroughly.


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## Matplat (4/2/16)

Thanks guys, yeah im planning on dropping a pinch of sodium metabisulphite (i've got a whole jar of it from earlier days!) into the next batch to hopefully sort the problem. If that doesn't fix it i will have to start looking into filtration.

I guess i was just wondering the more likely cause, water or wild yeast? It's really strong and from most of what I've read, people seem to only mention a slight band aid flavour. I gave some to my wife and she used the term 'mediciney' without me prompting her, so it isnt just me being paranoid.

What really sucks is that i brewed my next batch the day after this one, so it will more than likely end up on the lawn as well. At least with more rigorous cleaning and sanitising it will confirm whether it was wild yeast or not.

Thanks for the star san tip yob, i might just go and get some distilled water from supercheap and keep it just for the spray bottle. The water here is quite soft but the pH is around 8.4 so maybe too high for sanitiser? Could i just use star-san at a slightly higher concentration to bring the pH down?

Thanks again everyone, Matt.


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## manticle (4/2/16)

How is your water chlorinated? Chlorine (easy to drive off with heat or campden) or chloramine (more difficult but campden should do it, otherwise filtration)?

Any chlorine based sanitisers or cleaners? Band-aid from chlorine can be super full on (I know from the one time I used unrinsed, chlorine sanitised cube) but it should be easy enough for you to eliminate the town water anyway.

Use starsan at the recommended concentration.


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## Matplat (4/2/16)

And I quote the local water supplier "Yes, free chlorine is used in Beerburrum" no mention of chloramine but I will confirm.

No, I only use homebrand napisan for cleaning, and starsan for sanitising.... I've emailed five star chemicals for their take on cloudy starsan, it seems there are some conflicting opinions on the interweb (shocker!).

In the mean time I've almost run out of beer


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## Matplat (9/2/16)

I was just smelling my water bottle (filled with my tap water) and it fully smells like a swimming pool, so I'm certain that is what the problem is. Kinda makes me think there could be too much chlorine in the water?

Next batch has been brewed using 1/4 tsp of sodium metabisulfite in both the mash and sparge water.... so the proof shall be with us soon.


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## Blind Dog (9/2/16)

Having struggled with this problem personally (which I also found it a full-on assault on my tastes buds - kind of like chewing a band aid), the most likely cause (and fortunately the easiest to eliminate) is chlorine or chloramine in the water. A carbon activated filter and campden tablets (or sodium met) will fix that issue. I use 1/2 a crushed campden tablet or 1/8 tsp sodium met for the 27L of water or so I need for a 21L brew. That's overkill given the normal concentration of chlorine in the water, but I'm not aware of any adverse effects. 

If that's not it (and it helped me but did not entirely eliminate the issue), its likely to be an infection or a contaminant somewhere in the process. Then you'll need to step through equipment, ingredients, process etc. to find and eliminate the source. That's painful and at times, soul destroying, but it does work. 

Here's hoping the next brew is sorted


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## Matplat (9/2/16)

Yep, before I ferment the next brew FV's are gonna get nuked with caustic to be absolutely sure they are bug free. I haven't had a really great batch since november and it's starting to wear a bit thin...


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## Matplat (9/2/16)

Oh yeah this was the response from 5 star chemicals:

"The reason why the Star San batch you made has gone cloudy is because the minerals in the water are reacting with the acids in the Star San. As long as the pH is 3.5 or below it is good to use. Anything above that, the solution is not good anymore."

I made up a fresh batch with de-mineralised water. problem sorted.


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## Reman (10/2/16)

Caveat, apparently metabisulfate is good for about a year, so if they are older than that they may not be as effective.

If you still get the flavour after that you might be better off dumping equipment and buying new stuff rather than trying to clean the bug out, it might end up being less hassle and potentially cheaper (due to grain/hops/yeast wastage)


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## Matplat (10/2/16)

Awesome... wish I knew that before.

Well I guess we'll see in the next brew if that's right. If it fails, it will be three in a row on the lawn. 

Tasted the second brew last night just to see, even though it's only been in the FV 3 days, and it wasn't promising. Sucks, because even though it tastes pretty rough, it smells amazing!


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## Blind Dog (10/2/16)

Is it the same bandaid taste, or something different? If its different, leave it to ferment and condition - I've had brews that smelt amazing, but tasted like diesel out of the FV, come good with a bit of time in the keg. If it finishes close to your predicted FG, you can at least rule out (at least as the main suspect) those bugs that will munch on sugars yeast leaves behind.

If its bandaid again, try again but this time measure the chlorine in the water (you can get test strips / kits from aquarium places which are a lot more accurate that the ones used for pools) to at least completely eliminate that as the source. also make sure others can taste it. When I had an issue, I found that a lot of my beers had a bandaid note, which no one else could detect and it was likely my own paranoia. 

If you're still struggling, my suggestions would be:
1. try an FWK with your current FV - if its good, then you've probably eliminated the FV, if its not buy a new FV and use that next time you brew a batch
2. If you still have an issue, replace cold side equipment and try again
3. If you still have an issue, look at the environment all of the cold side processes (i.e. anything where the wort / beer is under about 80C) take place in and make sure its free of obvious contaminants (e.g. dust from grains, mould, dusty ceilings, pollen etc) and all equipment used is super clean and sanitary
4. If you still have a problem, find all the place on the hot side that bugs can hide and strip down and nuke or replace, and try again
5. if you still have an issue, you could look at the ingredients

Good luck. Struggling with an infection / off-flavour is a real pain, but I reckon I ended making much better beer because of it as it forced me to focus on each stage of the process in a fair amount of detail. Clouds and silver linings


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## potof4x (10/2/16)

HI all, 

I've been hit with an infection that gave a Bandaid phenolic that was so strong that it completely dominated any other aromas or flavours.

For those that have the chlorinated water problem - Is the taste of chlorinated water in finished beer that strong? Or does it form more of background off flavour? FWIW I can't imagine drinkable water causing a flavour so strong as that from infection; unless concentration by boiling or some other factor increases the effect?

After being on a brewing hiatus (due to infection of a coupe of batches in the fermentor and even a couple of sealed no chill cubes swelling up) for the last 12 months, I'm 6 batches deep again without infection - touch wood! 
I think that mould spores were surviving the pasteuristion effect of no-chill and the sanitisers used.

I changed my process by covering my keggle for the last 5 minutes of the boil after adding brewbrite, and draining to cube after only 5 minutes (down from 20min). 

Good luck sorting it!


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## Matplat (10/2/16)

As it has only been in the FV 3 days I think it is too early to directly compare it to the flavour from last time, as that was after a week. I think the flavour gets more intense as fementation progresses, however I'm pretty sure the flavour will end up in the same result. Knowing the effect of chlorine, and knowing that there was chlorine in the brewing water, I'm not too concerned that this brew is ruined because I was expecting it.

If the following brew has the same problem, i'l be starting to get really annoyed. If that does happen, i'l probably try a brew with the rainwater thats at the back of my block, then follow blind dog's process.

potof4x - you don't taste the chlorine in the finished beer, the chlorine is processed by the yeast to create chlorophenols which taste like bandaids.... at least that is my understanding of it.

Thanks guys.


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## Markbeer (10/2/16)

Yob,

Does it matter if you leave the lid on or off? Is it an evaporation thing and needs to be open?



Yob said:


> chlorine will drop out overnight, fill the HLT the day before and you should see an improvement.
> 
> Cloudy Starsan means that its losing its ability and the PH is moving out of range. To fix this, use boiled cooled water for the spray bottle, if its still cloudy then you have too much residual hardness in the water and will need to fix that.


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## manticle (10/2/16)

Lid off, yes.


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## pablo_h (11/2/16)

If chlorine is that volatile, wouldn't it gas out with all the co2 produced from fermentation?
I know of the leaving the bucket out trick, common in the chilli growing community (fill up watering cans, let them gas out overnight), so the chlorine doesn't kill good bacteria in the potting mix. Also the inverse, if you have root rot bugs, pour in some hydrogen peroxide to nuke the soil.
I wish I still had some sodium metabisulphite to deal with chloramine though. A few old kits had it, but I must have chucked them. Only have the old coopers sodium percarbonate and brigalow stuff (labelled as alkalii salts - probably percarbonate and I've never heard of metabisulphite called salts, but carbonates are.)

Might have to buy some campden tabs myself, as I think the problem is chloramines; personally I think the chlorine would gas itself off during fermentation.
E: Of course if you have the gear to reboil the water after letting it vent, do that too to get rid of chlorine, but I'm still kit brewing with no quick way to chill either, so I'm not boiling water for the wort anymore and don't like having to do that. Look at the chloramine first.


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## manticle (11/2/16)

Chlorine comes out of solution above about 20 deg. The hotter the solution, the less time it takes.

While I have heard that simple agitation or an overnight stand can work, I have also read studies that suggested little shift occurs with either (that said, big, open pots were not used).

If the water is chloraminated, the ammonia binds with the chlorine and such simple techniques are no longer effective anyway. Boiling will still work but requires much more time for the same effect in which case filtration or campden are better options.

For my water, simple heating to strike temps are effective enough.


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## Matplat (11/2/16)

Pablo, im pretty sure the brigalow alkali salts are caustic soda, not percarbonate. Thats why they have all the PPE warnings on the bottle.


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## Matplat (11/2/16)

I wonder if the chlorinated water has had a detrimental effect on my hop plants...?


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## Blind Dog (11/2/16)

From what I've read on the ever reliable interweb, it shouldn't affect plants, but can kill beneficial micro organisms. However, the effect only extends a small depth (10 to 20 mm) in the soil as the chlorine binds with other particles and becomes inactive as it passes through the soil. As the microorganisms that may be affected also live at depths greater than 20mm, the overall effect is negligible.

Note - I don't grow hops (yet), but can't imagine they are any more delicate than other plants, edible and decorative, we do grow with reasonable success that receive tap water


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## Matplat (19/2/16)

Well.... The second batch has now been in the FV for 11 days ish and the previous off-flavour I thought was there is gone, it seems that even good beer tastes pretty average after only 3 days in the FV!

This is clearly a good thing (S&W pacific clone coming up! , except it leaves me wondering what the problem was with the first batch. My theory is that, when brewing the second batch, I perhaps left the mash water pre-heated for longer prior to mashing in which allowed the chlorine to be driven off. I also wondered if I didn't wash the caustic out of the system well enough prior to the first batch (although I don't know if that would have the same effect as chlorine), and I am also slightly suspicious of my first FV as I had one or two other bad batches out of it before christmas. I do need grain storage, so I might retire it.

Considering the swimming pool aroma I get from my drinking water bottle, I will still be adding sodium metabisulphite to future batches to stay on the safe side...

Cheers for all the help fellas.


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## marksy (23/2/16)

I don`t know if its been mentioned already, but all the wild yeast infections I`ve ever had, had a very old socks and fruity smell to it. Kind of like when the fruit bowl in the kitchen goes bad.


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## pablo_h (26/2/16)

Matplat said:


> I wonder if the chlorinated water has had a detrimental effect on my hop plants...?


Probably not.
You'll never kill all of any good or bad bacteria in the ground with tap water. The only time I bothered de-chlorinating water for plants was when I had potted plants in debco organic potting mix and using organic fertilizers like rooster booster or dynamic lifter. 
For normal average potted plants/potting mixes, and using chemical fertilizers I never bothered either. Anything planted in the ground wouldn't be affected too.


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## Matplat (26/2/16)

Hmmmm im using rooster booster, ah well.... i've pretty much given up on this season anyway.


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## Drick (6/7/16)

Hi folks

Great to find this thread. I just poured a whole brew down the drain because of the bandaid taste.
I moved over to all grain in February and found my last few brews had an underlying flavor that I couldn't put my finger on, the last had enough of a medical flavor that I could identify the problem with the other brews. I've since started filling my tank the day before.
I guess I can just leave a towel over the opening to leave the gas out?


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## peteru (7/7/16)

Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) has also been mentioned in other threads as a potential cure to chlorine / chloramine in water. Chemist Warehouse stock 100% pure ascorbic acid without any flavours or colours and it costs $8.99 for 125g packet.

http://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/Buy/72667/Melrose-Ascorbic-Acid-125g

Vitamin C does not lower the dissolved oxygen as much as sulphur based chemicals do, so it may be a better choice than metabisulphite for brewing. Approximately 2.5 parts of ascorbic acid are required for neutralising 1 part chlorine. I'm not sure how much chlorine would be in a typical 20-25L batch, but at a guess I would say that 1g of ascorbic acid should be plenty.


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## Matplat (9/7/16)

Yeah at first I went with sodium metabisulphite, but now I just measure out my water a few days before... after 1 day I find it still smells like a swimming pool when I open the lid. Time taken for it to dissipate depends on how much chlorine is in your water to start with... also you need to know if you are dealing with chlorine or chloramine, not sure if chloramine can be removed simply by aerating; and if it can it would probably take an unviable length of time.


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## Reman (9/7/16)

Chloramine can't be waited out unfortunately. Sodium Metabisulphite is your best bet. I have a 1kg bag and add a scant pinch with my water adjustments. Very little is needed.


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## rude (10/7/16)

potasium metabisulphite would be better unless of course you want sodium in youre brew


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## peteru (10/7/16)

Either of those still gets sulphites into your beer, which is exactly the ingredient that many people point their finger at when they have reactions to drinking wine.

I still reckon it's a good idea to give vitamin C, aka ascorbic acid, a shot. Reading the literature on it, it appears to work for both chlorine and chloramine and the effect is virtually instantaneous. Leaving you with better oxygen solubility than metabisulphite is another win. And we all need more vitamin C in our diet, so you are making healthy beer with vitamins! Easy sell. 

Just need to add fibre and it's a health elixir for sure...


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## manticle (10/7/16)

I don't react well to something in wine, load dependent and have always presumed it's excess sulphite. Could be methanal instead though.

Anyway my understanding is that unless you really overdose your brew, the sulphites should get bound up pretty easily. Beer natually has some level of sulphite too, even if none is added.

Boiling will remove chlorine pretty quickly. It will remove chloramines as well but it takes a lot longer. Activated charcoal filter is another possibility if your water is disinfected with chloramine.

I believe ascorbic acid can be used too (mentioned above) but only from recent reading. I think Adr0 knows a bit more about this.


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## Nick667 (10/7/16)

Thanks for bringing this topic up Matplat I have been struggling with the same problem I think.
a while back I saw the light on a few brewing issues and started making some great beers. So I went into full production ( 1 brew every 2-3 weeks ) and was bottling and brewing on the same day using the pink stuff to sanitize, for a fast fix.
Lots of lawn food.


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## manticle (10/7/16)

pablo_h said:


> If chlorine is that volatile, wouldn't it gas out with all the co2 produced from fermentation?


Asked a while ago but not answered.

Chlorine needs to be removed pre-fermentation as it reacts with yeast to form off flavours.


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## Reman (10/7/16)

Doing a quick google, chloramines can be removed with 20 minutes of boiling. Or a 1000mg vitamin c table will do a medium bathtub of water, I'm not sure what the bathtub to litres ratio is, but I'm guessing less than a quarter tablet would be required.

I'll still use the metabisulfate as I have a fair bit left and I use so little and haven't noticed an adverse reaction, but in the future I think the ascorbic acid might be a goer.


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## SBOB (10/7/16)

Reman said:


> I'm not sure what the bathtub to litres ratio is,


1/2 full = ~80 litres
mostly full= ~140 litres


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## manticle (10/7/16)

Reman said:


> Doing a quick google, chloramines can be removed with 20 minutes of boiling.


I read 2 hours.


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## Reman (11/7/16)

I took the 20mins from here http://www.sfwater.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=4125

But that doesn't say how much water or how little is left. Other brewing sites say 2 hours for 5 gallons, including an article by deLange.


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## stuartf (7/10/16)

Made my first batch of elastoplast pilsner. From the discussion in this thread in getting that most people think this is most likely down to chlorine/chloramines in the water? I was thinking it could be a wild yeast as my beer has almost no body but then it has taken ages to carb too so maybe not? I've never had issues with the water before but I suppose it has been very wet this winter in victoria so the water companies may have added more chlorine to disinfect the water supply?


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## Reman (7/10/16)

Potentially, try a pinch of ascorbic acid or s/p metabisulphate in your water before you mash in. 

The other option is if you clean with pink cleaner and don't rinse well enough.


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## stuartf (7/10/16)

Don't use pink cleaner. I've done a caustic scrub down of my fermenting fridge and fv so guess ill try another brew and if that's still bandaid then I'll give the ascorbic acid a shot


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