# BIAB V All in one system for new All Grain brewer



## John Nicolac (24/9/20)

Hi All, 
I am looking at moving to a All Grain journey after spending a year on Kit & kilo & Extract 
brewing. I have seen and read many things and am confused.
Should i go a BIAB in a kettle or Look at a Brewzilla / Guten system ( I cant afford the grainfather at this stage).
I would like some info and advise from others with more experience and knowledge than me on options, id
like to go into this with as much info as possible beofre outlaying cash and starting my All Grain Journey

Many Thanks


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## kadmium (24/9/20)

By the time you setup properly for BIAB with a pot, burner and lpg, you're probably looking at $100 or more. 

Buying a guten or other single vessel is a "buy once cry once" type of purchase. If you're serious about brewing, but also want an easy system then in my opinion a 1v system is the way to go. 

I've done 3 vessel, mash and lautering in coolers, BIAB and now a guten and you can pry it out of my hands before I give it up. 

Its made brewing enjoyable and not a chore. 

The wife loves it cause I'm not stinking the house out brewing inside, and I love how easy it made the process. 

The GF is just an overpriced Guten/robobrew to be honest. In my opinion


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## Malted Mick (25/9/20)

Hi J I have been All Grain BIAB for 12 months using a home made keggle & gas burner. My set up would have cost me at least $100 doing it on the cheap. I will stick it on Gumtree and should get $50 back to go towards a Guten or Robobrew for my next brew. The main disavantages of a gas fired BIAB keggle for me has been the safety issues of breathing carbon monoxide and poor control of mash temps. In hindsight I should have gone electric.


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## Hangover68 (25/9/20)

A cheap s/steel pot , 2200w element, tap and a biab bag can be done for around $100. 
No need to mess around with gas.


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## John Nicolac (25/9/20)

Cheers all for the Replies, much appreciated..

Now comes the Hard part, do i go for a Robobrew or a Guten system ?, with my limited research they seem failry similar with some benefits to one and other benefits of another... Has anyone used both and have a unbiased preference ?


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## kadmium (25/9/20)

I don't think many people have used both, there was a very recent thread here and I believe he decided on the Guten in the end.


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## adamsec (26/9/20)

Hangover68 said:


> A cheap s/steel pot , 2200w element, tap and a biab bag can be done for around $100.
> No need to mess around with gas.



Agree with this.

The only stuff you miss is graduated markings for filling water or seeing when the boil is done, but fit the money it is hard to beat


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## kadmium (26/9/20)

Yeah but exposed elements, no pump and then buying a power controller is around $50. 

An all in one system, with digital temp control, pump, fittings, literally plug it in and brew are $399 with 3 year warranty. Maybe twice the price or a bit more but worth it in my opinion having done 3v, BIAB and now a Guten


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## butisitart (26/9/20)

John Nicolac said:


> Hi All,
> I am looking at moving to a All Grain journey after spending a year on Kit & kilo & Extract
> brewing. I have seen and read many things and am confused.
> 
> Many Thanks


as a version 1.0 grainfather owner, you couldn't get better when i bought it. it was the working class man's rolls royce (braumeister being the RR). but if i was in the market today, sep2020, i'd have to have a good look at the guten and robobrew, purely on what they do for the price difference. trying to be a cheap-arse under that, and you'll get what you pay for.
imho, a 3v system would be great if you are in your own home, with brewing workshop space, and a permanent water and electricity supply, so it depends a little on real estate as much as on the brew systems, which ultimately do the same thing regardless. they make good beer.


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## adamsec (28/9/20)

I am biased but I am pretty happy with my diy 50L setup

It is fast to get up to mash temp (20 mins), fast to boil (15m) and gives me 75/80% efficiency

I only need to clean one vessel at the end of the day and legit takes less than 15 minutes to scrub and put it all away.

Probably the only thing I would like to upgrade is to a basket over a bag but that can come down the track.

Was definitely fun to build it myself and I think part of the hobby for me is refining my processes along the way as I understand more of what I am actually doing.

If you got the money, $699 is a bargain for the 65L brewzilla


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## akx (29/9/20)

adamsec said:


> I am biased but I am pretty happy with my diy 50L setup
> 
> It is fast to get up to mash temp (20 mins), fast to boil (15m) and gives me 75/80% efficiency


A little off topic question but: any details on your system + what size heating element did you go with?


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## davemac (29/9/20)

As I now ferment in FKJs (18L wort) I use my grainfather as a glorified BIAB system using a full volume mash - slightly lower efficiency adds about 5% to the total cost of a brew but makes it a bit more convenient


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## Hangover68 (29/9/20)

adamsec said:


> Agree with this.
> 
> The only stuff you miss is graduated markings for filling water or seeing when the boil is done, but fit the money it is hard to beat



Nothing a dremel cant fix which is what i did to my kettle, no need for a pump or power controller but these can be added later.


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## adamsec (30/9/20)

Hangover68 said:


> Nothing a dremel cant fix which is what i did to my kettle, no need for a pump or power controller but these can be added later.



I could prob engrave them in - that's a great idea


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## adamsec (30/9/20)

akx said:


> A little off topic question but: any details on your system + what size heating element did you go with?



50L stainless kettle
Drilled holes for a ball valve, 2400w heating element to keep it on a 10A circuit (if I do upgrade I'll just add a second 2400w and put it on a second circuit), thermowell for the external inkbird wifi controller that allows me to turn it on and heat up the mash water in advance of me needing to be there.

External 25w magnetic pump that recirculates during mash and provides a whirlpool in the boil

External keg King chiller block mk3 to pull the wort down

Using a bag currently, would consider going to grain basket

Need to get a sprinkler for the lid so I can keep the lid shut during the mash and to get up to boil faster but it is not the worst setup now

Would consider putting a whirlpool arm in the kettle and not drilling the lid as it would make the lid easier to remove - this is one annoyance of the clawhammer setup but they've done it to try and redistribute the wort evenly

Getting like 75-83% efficiency so far and I think that's good enough for a diy setup

Most bits I've picked up second hand so the entire setup hasn't cost me much at all

It's been fun to build it - would recommend doing it this way unless you are super short on time and just want beer - then brewzilla all the way


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## GrumpyPaul (30/9/20)

adamsec said:


> I could prob engrave them in - that's a great idea



Or you could etch the marking's

Really old but good thread here with a link to the BYO article on DIY etching 

I've done it on mine and its not too hard.


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## beergee (30/9/20)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Or you could etch the marking's
> 
> Really old but good thread here with a link to the BYO article on DIY etching
> 
> I've done it on mine and its not too hard.


That's great, I was wondering how to mark the stainless. Ended up using a dot punch at 5L increments, but this is heaps better! 
Just need to find some stencils.


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## adamsec (1/10/20)

beergee said:


> That's great, I was wondering how to mark the stainless. Ended up using a dot punch at 5L increments, but this is heaps better!
> Just need to find some stencils.



I like the dot punch too

Very simple


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## Nick667 (2/10/20)

Hi John, I brewed kit and kilo beers for decades way back but when I came back to brewing I wanted something much better than "not bad for homebrew" beer. I put together a BIAB setup for very little money. I am still using it 6 years later and get some very good results a lot of the time. I must have put 100 odd brews though the same bag and it is still going strongish. I think you really have to justify the cost (asset or liability) because brewing now and then is different to a lot. Also no machine or amount of money will guarantee success eg do you have temp controlled fermentation? I/we all still get disasters sometimes. But I really enjoy it and you wont regret it one way or another. In saying all that I would still buy a Robobrew tomorrow if some extra cash came my way. Hope this helps in some way. Good luck. Nick.


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## John Nicolac (14/10/20)

Thanks all for the response, 
I did get the brewzilla and it was delivgered yesterday ready for a 1st Brew in it... 
Does anyone know, should be the Brewzilla be cleaned/ sanitized before use ?
and is there a dummy guide to use / best practise for the Brewzilla, it didnt come with instructions or guide, so i 
want a quick walkthrough so i can TRY and get optimnal results from the system.

Once again, thanks all for the insight & help, much appreciated


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## Hangover68 (14/10/20)

John Nicolac said:


> Thanks all for the response,
> I did get the brewzilla and it was delivgered yesterday ready for a 1st Brew in it...
> Does anyone know, should be the Brewzilla be cleaned/ sanitized before use ?
> and is there a dummy guide to use / best practise for the Brewzilla, it didnt come with instructions or guide, so i
> ...



I would sanitise any new equipment before use.


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## kadmium (14/10/20)

Technically sanitise is not needed, but a good clean is. 

You need a good brewery cleaner like PBW or Sodium Percarb. 

I use Keg King ABC cleaner. Its made in Australia and has more than just straight up Sodium Perc. 

Mix about 10 litres in the robo, set it to 50c and add your cleaner. Then, set it to recirc and recirc the water while it heats. Make sure to run the circ through all the bits you intend on using, also open the ball valve and run cleaner through. Open close open close you may need to take the ball valve apart. 

I got a SS ballvalve from KL and it was soaked in cutting oils which left a horrific smell and oil sheen on the water. So make sure its good.

Then give it a very good rinse, running water through the pump and everything else.


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## adamsec (15/10/20)

Yes always clean your kit before use, especially metal fabricated parts as they will have machine oil on them from the manufacturing process.

Look on YouTube for home brew network, he has a few videos using the brew Zilla you will get a good idea how to use it based off that


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## thesocialbrewers (15/10/20)

**WAR AND PEACE LENGTH POST - SORRY**
Hey John. I've been using my 35L Brewzilla for about 6 months and brewing every couple of weeks as we dial in recipes for a small commercial brewery (launching soon!). I have a manual from mine and I'm pretty sure I Googled and found it, but if you're stuck I'm happy to copy it and share. I run it completely manually because I can't be bothered to work out how to set all the timers etc. Brewfather app has timers and it's handier to have it all there with the recipe and records.

I didn't clean mine but suggest you should (I have now seen the error of my ways and have converted to a much more rigorous sanitation program).

Super easy to use - basically;
1. Fill (either from your hose through a charcoal filter or from your HWS - if you've got hot water taps close by you're a lucky lucky man)
2. Insert malt pipe (do this after you fill for better accuracy)
3. Heat water (pump off will raise temp faster). don't be afraid to blast both elements to get it there quickly. this won't take long if you fill from HWS or hot tap - writing this I've just realised I'm wasting time by not filling from my GF HWS... I've only been using for Sparge water!! what an idiot!!)
4. mash in (chuck the grain into the malt pipe) and give it a little stir to remove dough balls
5. hold at mash temp as per recipe - turn on your pump and recirculate at this point otherwise your efficiency will be way down. It took me ages to work out why mine dropped on brew 2&3... genius!)
6. Pull up your malt pipe - think about this when you pick where to place the BZ for brewing. I had mine on a bench so I could operate the controls without too much bending down (OH&S planning) but then had to climb a step ladder to pull the pipe up. Some of the bigger grain bills had me struggling to lift it... if you've got a 65L think about investing in a block and tackle or some other method... or a gym membership
7. Sparge. This can take a while. I don't use rice hulls, but loads of people do - it will save time in the sparge. I had one sparge that took 2hrs, but put it down to having grain milled too fine. It's a balance between efficiency (in terms of extraction) and efficiency (in terms of how long you want to listen to water drip from your malt pipe. Sparge can take an hour regardless (my brewing mentor tells me that the magic ingredient of brewing good beer is patience).
8. work out what to do with your spent grains. I'm planning on making dog treats one day... but commercially we donate them to a pig farm.
If you ramp up the temp to high 90c (or HH which is boil temp) during sparge you'll save some time.
9. Boil and make all your hops additions.
10. Cooling. think this through. the BZ comes with a coil chiller which can drop your wort temp to around 20c as long as your tap water is cold enough and you don't mind pouring litres (and I mean many litres) onto your grass or garden or you have a rainwater tank you can return it to. Easiest way to do this without getting water in your wort is buying compression fittings and hose connectors or cam-locks. Standard garden hose will fit snuggly, but the coil will get hot and I've melted a couple of hoses and there's a risk of wasting an entire batch (or making a light beer). You could also transfer into plastic cubes and do no-chill. Have a mate who does this and he gets good results. The longer your late hops additions sit in hot wort the less aromas/flavours and more bitterness they're going to impart though.
11. transfer to fermenter and pitch away
12. wait 7-14 days and Robert's your Mother's Brother!
13. bottle/keg

Hope that helps! Have fun mate and feel free to msg with questions.


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## Mooroolbark_Mick (15/10/20)

John Nicolac said:


> Thanks all for the response,
> I did get the brewzilla and it was delivgered yesterday ready for a 1st Brew in it...
> Does anyone know, should be the Brewzilla be cleaned/ sanitized before use ?
> and is there a dummy guide to use / best practise for the Brewzilla, it didnt come with instructions or guide, so i
> ...


G'day John,
I also bought a Brewzilla a few months ago. It's important to clean and sterilise the unit first as there can be residue from manufacturing inside. The system is brilliant and the latest model seems to have ironed out the problems reported from the earlier versions. As far as "Brewzilla for Dummies", I watched a few YouTube videos and that was probably enough. My only concern was the amount of deadspace at the bottom of the unit and I found that the Brewfather app allowed me to set the parameters correctly for the latest Brewzilla with a 6.75 litres deadspace.


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## HowlingWolf (16/10/20)

thesocialbrewers said:


> 10. Cooling. think this through. the BZ comes with a coil chiller



Regarding the coil chiller...any thoughts on recirculating the hot wort through the coil itself whilst the coil sits in ice in an esky? Saw one of the youtube vids with this done and wondering.if anyone has cooled their wort this way.


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## thesocialbrewers (16/10/20)

HowlingWolf said:


> Regarding the coil chiller...any thoughts on recirculating the hot wort through the coil itself whilst the coil sits in ice in an esky? Saw one of the youtube vids with this done and wondering.if anyone has cooled their wort this way.



I haven't cooled that way, but I have also seen lots of vids suggesting it's better. My only concern with this is the additional cleaning and not being able to see that any debris and/or build up has been cleared. Would have to cool at least twice as fast to be worth the effort IMO, but as I said I've never tried it.


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## John Nicolac (20/10/20)

thesocialbrewers said:


> **WAR AND PEACE LENGTH POST - SORRY**
> Hey John. I've been using my 35L Brewzilla for about 6 months and brewing every couple of weeks as we dial in recipes for a small commercial brewery (launching soon!). I have a manual from mine and I'm pretty sure I Googled and found it, but if you're stuck I'm happy to copy it and share. I run it completely manually because I can't be bothered to work out how to set all the timers etc. Brewfather app has timers and it's handier to have it all there with the recipe and records.
> 
> I didn't clean mine but suggest you should (I have now seen the error of my ways and have converted to a much more rigorous sanitation program).
> ...


Absolute champion... Very informative and helpfull, much appreciated


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## Grmblz (20/10/20)

@thesocialbrewers A good effort but I disagree with your sparging advice, high 90s' especially with rice hulls is just asking for tannin troubles.
A little primer on sparge temp's, short and to the point, explaining in plain English why 90c is a bad idea. What Temperature Should Your Sparge Water Be?.
Cheers G


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## thesocialbrewers (20/10/20)

Grmblz said:


> @thesocialbrewers A good effort but I disagree with your sparging advice, high 90s' especially with rice hulls is just asking for tannin troubles.
> A little primer on sparge temp's, short and to the point, explaining in plain English why 90c is a bad idea. What Temperature Should Your Sparge Water Be?.
> Cheers G


Hi Grmblz - apologies. The intention is to say that the kettle should be ramped to high 90c range while you're sparging to reduce ramp time after sparge. I sparge at around 75c.


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## thesocialbrewers (20/10/20)

John Nicolac said:


> Absolute champion... Very informative and helpfull, much appreciated


I also learnt a lesson on my last brew (a Hefeweizen) that you need to take your time sparging. I stirred the mash and the grain bed (first time I've done it) didn't settle well. Ended up with a super fast sparge and efficiencies in the 50% range and had to bring up the SG with DME (buy some of this and keep it on hand to produce beers at expected SG/OG while you're dialing in the system).


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## philrob (20/10/20)

Yup. Hefeweizens are a different beast to a degree to the usual mash, because of the high proportion of wheat malt.
I batch sparge, and because I have a relatively small mashtun, I add a mashout volume of water.
After this is added, I wait about 5 or so minutes to allow the grain bed to settle.
After this, I have no problem with running off, even though I don't use rice hulls, but I tend to do it rather slowly. My total time for run off and sparge takes about 45 minutes for 35 litres into the kettle. 
The other issue I find is to cut the mash, as the fine flour tends to set on top of the grain bed, slowing down the run off. Simple cut channels close to to the surface to allow the water to rinse the grain bed.
By the way, Robert is my middle name, and I am not intimately related to your mother, or in any other way.


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## thesocialbrewers (20/10/20)

philrob said:


> Yup. Hefeweizens are a different beast to a degree to the usual mash, because of the high proportion of wheat malt.
> I batch sparge, and because I have a relatively small mashtun, I add a mashout volume of water.
> After this is added, I wait about 5 or so minutes to allow the grain bed to settle.
> After this, I have no problem with running off, even though I don't use rice hulls, but I tend to do it rather slowly. My total time for run off and sparge takes about 45 minutes for 35 litres into the kettle.
> ...


HaHa!!

Thanks for that philrob. I'll be taking those tips into my next Hefe brew day! I did manage to step mash and get a much more pronounced clove/spice flavour in the wort. Hopefully setting the fermentation temp at the higher end of the recommendation for the strain (Safwheat) will give it a decent banana hit to balance it all out. That's the plan anyway!


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## Grmblz (20/10/20)

thesocialbrewers said:


> Hi Grmblz - apologies. The intention is to say that the kettle should be ramped to high 90c range while you're sparging to reduce ramp time after sparge. I sparge at around 75c.


No worries mate and certainly no need to apologise, OP has never done it before and might have come away with the idea that near boiling water for all his sparging was a good idea, sorry if I came across as critical of your advice, was just adding my two bobs worth to what will be his first endeavours.


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## thesocialbrewers (21/10/20)

Absolutely no offence taken mate!


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## Nullnvoid (22/10/20)

I would think a quick rinse wash to get rid of any manufacturing bits/oils but you should be ok.

Instructions or guides are on their website, but here is a link to the instructions


https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/BrewZilla%2035L%20-%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf


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