# Advice About Fresh Worts



## Alien boy (18/4/05)

.....................................................


----------



## jgriffin (18/4/05)

I do the ESB wort kits often, ususally if i make up a large yeast starter i'll make one beer myself and throw down and ESB too.

They are pretty much all good - i was dissapointed with the Irish Red though.
The APA is nice, but not as hopped as LCPA. If you want something similar to an LCPA, dry hop with 20gms or so of Cascade.

I also reccomend use of a good liquid yeast. Also, i never used to add water as the OG was only 1.050, but i made one recently that i did add water and the OG was 1.050, so either my new hydrometer is out, or the latest batch had the gravity increased.


----------



## Ross (18/4/05)

AB,

I haven't tried one of the wort kits - but being straight from the micro's kettle I'm sure they are excellent. If you want a greater choice, have a look around for a "brew your own" type establishment in your area - My local gives you the choice of dozens of AG brews, but beware, some places only use extract...


----------



## Kai (18/4/05)

So long as your sanitation and fermentation practices are up to scratch, you won't be disappointed with most of the wort kits available, assuming you like the style. You don't have as much flexibility in what you can brew, but they are an excellent introduction to you own all-grain beers.


----------



## voota (18/4/05)

I was the same with the extracts, DME just didn't give enough room to change brews a great deal, mind you.. i wish i had stayed extract after my first AG, I just tipped the contents of the fermenter down the sink, that will learn me for using home malted barley. As regards to the wort kits, i know somebody who has used them and they work quite well (the Grumpys? APA was nice). They are a bit pricy though.


----------



## vlbaby (18/4/05)

I always thought that the wort in those kits was straight from the mash tun not the kettle. Was thinking that would allow you to add your own hops and make it into whatever you wanted.
Obviously i was wrong 

vlbaby.


----------



## jayse (18/4/05)

No brewery could give you wort from the tun unless you were there on brewday and went home and boiled it straight away.

Jayse


----------



## vlbaby (18/4/05)

Is bad to allow the runnings from the mash to cool? Or is it just a time thing?
Only reason i ask is because on my next brew day i plan to catch wort from the mash tun in a pot, and transfer it in batches to the kettle. So it will probably cool down a bit during that time.

vlbaby


----------



## jgriffin (18/4/05)

I'd sy infection is the big thing. Grain husks are covered with lacto bacillus. That's how the whole "sour mash" thing works.


----------



## Gulf Brewery (18/4/05)

vlbaby said:


> Is bad to allow the runnings from the mash to cool? Or is it just a time thing?
> [post="55160"][/post]​



vlbaby

As long as they are not left for any substantial time (overnight = bad), then it should be OK. One of the main functions of the boil is to kill the bacteria in the wort, thats why the fresh wort kits have been boiled.

Cheers
Pedro


----------



## Doc (18/4/05)

I regularly leave the runnings from the MLT in the boiler for up to two hours before starting the boil. Simply because of family life and family commitments. Never had a problem with leaving it for two hours.

Doc


----------



## Kai (18/4/05)

In 2 hours it probably wouldn't even get down to a temperature low enough for the greeblies to grow.


----------



## Doc (18/4/05)

Probably not. It is generally around 40-45 degC.

Doc


----------



## PostModern (18/4/05)

I've brewed a couple of the Fresh Worts and have tasted several brewed by friends. I think they're great considering how easy they are to put on and have on tap. I found the APA a bit thin when diluted as recommended, 18 litres was about the right OG for me when using WLP001. 

Anwyay, I think they're worth chucking on if brewday is cancelled or whatever. They're much closer to AG than even the best of extract kits.


----------



## Weizguy (18/4/05)

Ross said:


> AB,
> 
> I haven't tried one of the wort kits - but being straight from the micro's kettle I'm sure they are excellent. If you want a greater choice, have a look around for a "brew your own" type establishment in your area - My local gives you the choice of dozens of AG brews, but beware, some places only use extract...
> [post="55128"][/post]​



I've tried a few, and U have to put up with their brewing. I've been advised that they usually mash high at ESB, and that seems to make some beers a bit out-of-style.

My only issue is that I have had contaminations in some of my brews. Maybe my technique is not right for these beers. 

Oops, I lied. I have another issue. I think my last one was mislabelled and I used a pils culture in my Pils, which now tastes like an Irish red fermented by a Pils yeast.

The dodgy units usually end up being purchased by me. But at least the Pils/Red isn't contam inated, just wrong...  

* edit* BTW, the BOP shops (Brew-on-premises) may alow U to do an AG beer, but I hear that most are set up for extract only. Please search this site for more info, maybe. * /edit*

Seth :chug:


----------



## jayse (18/4/05)

PostModern said:


> They're much closer to AG than even the best of extract kits.
> [post="55186"][/post]​



That is for sure, they are made with all freah hop pellets and the finest of craft brewing malts whereas the extracts are not made to anywhere this standard.
I don't think there is a extract around made from say JWM traditional ale malt or similar with actuall fresh hops added to the kettle at different stages.


Jayse


----------



## Duff (19/4/05)

AB,

Try the Amber Ale and WLP005.

Great drop :chug:


----------



## Towradgi Brewer (19/4/05)

As an extract brewer I have tried the ESB Fresh Wort KIts and have found all of them to be great and easy to do (IPA which is available now is great) I cant see how anyone can go wrong with them,not too hard to add 5L of water and pitch the yeast. Never had a problem with them.

Brew 1 up and enjoy :beer:


----------



## Pumpy (19/4/05)

I have made the ESB Bock fresh wort kit with out any additional 5 litres of water ,I did not use a lager yeast as I was not set up for it at the time ,I t really was a super beer I enjoyed it more than the Picton Bock.

I made the Wheat beer and used an ale yeast and did not get the right flavours that was my fault for being so lazy .

I am drinking the Vienna lager tonight ,I is the best beer I have made its a class act flavour wise but may have a chill haze ,the head is the best ever even the lacing down the side of the glass .

Pumpy


----------



## Ray_Mills (20/4/05)

Hi 
I have mentioned this before, so i will do it agaain on this thread.
I use ESB Wort kits for my every day drinking beer. Have two today to put down.
Try this as it never fails. Get a good liquid yeast for your first batch. When you have bottled or kegged the batch, dump the next wort kit on the yeast and top up to 20L. It will be fermenting in one hour and the yeasts will be loving it.
You can do this up to six times with the same batch of yeast. If the sediment is getting a little thick just empty some through the tap.
I will be Dumping the IPA on a WLP 570 Belgian Golden Ale. Have know idea what it will taste like, but its fun.
Cheers
Ray


----------



## sluggerdog (20/4/05)

Ray_Mills said:


> Hi
> I have mentioned this before, so i will do it agaain on this thread.
> I use ESB Wort kits for my every day drinking beer. Have two today to put down.
> Try this as it never fails. Get a good liquid yeast for your first batch. When you have bottled or kegged the batch, dump the next wort kit on the yeast and top up to 20L. It will be fermenting in one hour and the yeasts will be loving it.
> ...




Ray,

Have you ever dry hopped these worts? maybe in secondary with a plug or two for added aroma?

Am thinking the pils with some tettanger plugs.

CHeers


----------



## Ray_Mills (20/4/05)

Hi
No I have never dry hopped a wort kit, but there is nothing stopping you.
Ray


----------



## sluggerdog (20/4/05)

Thanks Ray, was basically asking if extra aroma was needed or not, sounds like they are great by themselves.

Cheers


----------



## Jase (27/9/05)

Ray_Mills said:


> Hi
> I have mentioned this before, so i will do it agaain on this thread.
> I use ESB Wort kits for my every day drinking beer. Have two today to put down.
> Try this as it never fails. Get a good liquid yeast for your first batch. When you have bottled or kegged the batch, dump the next wort kit on the yeast and top up to 20L. It will be fermenting in one hour and the yeasts will be loving it.
> ...



Hi There,

In regards to dumping a fresh wortts onto a yeast cake, is the general rule to move from lighter style to darker?

Is it possible to dump an APA onto a yeast cake used for an obtokerfest (was a WLP013 london yeast)?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## jayse (27/9/05)

Jase said:


> Is it possible to dump an APA onto a yeast cake used for an obtokerfest (was a WLP013 london yeast)?
> 
> 
> [post="79664"][/post]​




Nothing wrong with that, only thing i noticed is you are calling a beer made with a ale yeast a octoberfest. You can't really call it a amber lager when you have used a ale yeast, anyway iam sure your not overly concerned with that.

As far as pitching from a darker more robust beer to a lighter beer i haven't had any probs, in fact today iam repitching a yeast from a alt beer into a koelsch.

I find you only really need a half pint of slurry but have used the whole lot plenty of times.

Enjoy
Jayse


----------



## tdh (27/9/05)

The 'ONE' All-Grain Wort Kit APA from Grumpy's Brewhaus is 17 litres of 1.060 and 50 IBU wort.

They can be diluted to lower the alcohol content and bitterness level e.g. add 6 litres of water for an OG of 1.045 and 37 IBU.

Our next batch of 'American Pale Ale' is to be released from the kettle this Friday the 30th September.

$35 without yeast
$40 with Fermentis US-56 American Ale yeast
$45 with your choice Wyeast 

tdh

affiliated? yep


----------



## muga (27/9/05)

I think I'll have to go out and try making two brews with the one yeast.

Where do you get your liquid yeast from in Wollong Ray? (btw. nice interview on WIN news the other day  )


----------



## Plastic Man (27/9/05)

tdh

any thoughts on dumping a grumpys fresh wort kit onto a "full" yeast cake in a primary. Can you start with too much yeast ??

pm


----------



## PostModern (27/9/05)

muga said:


> Where do you get your liquid yeast from in Wollong [post="79669"][/post]​



Northern Brew on the highway at Woonona stocks Wyeast.


----------



## muga (27/9/05)

PostModern said:


> Northern Brew on the highway at Woonona stocks Wyeast.[post="79682"][/post]​


Sweet, I go there often and have never asked - alywas had whitelabs ordered in.


----------



## tdh (27/9/05)

any thoughts on dumping a grumpys fresh wort kit onto a "full" yeast cake in a primary. Can you start with too much yeast ??

Pitch half a cup of thick slurry or onto the slurry left in your 'secondary' fermenter.

Onto the whole yeast cake leads to an explosive, hot and rapid ferment, resultant flavours aren't the best.

This applies to any brew.

tdh


----------



## bindi (27/9/05)

Thanks tdh for that info, I was going to try that tomorrow onto a Wyeast 1007, I froze my starter of 1007  bummer, defrosted it and made up some fresh wort and and it is slowly coming back to life  but will not be ready for the 'Windjammer' I am doing in the moring [yeah I know, wrong yeast but my larger fridge sh#t it self] <_< .
Half a cup, thanks.


----------



## Jase (27/9/05)

Thanks Jayse,

I decided to try a LCPA to see what everyone was raving about. 

OMG :super: What a great beer, I am going out to grab an APA fresh wort tomorrow, how much extra cascade hops should I put in?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## jayse (27/9/05)

I can't really addvise on any additions for the fresh wort, i haven't made one, but i do imagine that if the fresh wort is of the same standard as the grumpies 'one' worts than you really shouldn't have to add anything.
If at racking you think it needs more hops you can always do a hop tea and put that in, i rather that than dry hopping as a hop tea is more like finishing hop additions than dry hopping which is not my cup of tea.
I pressume your talking about the ESB wort which i'll leave to others to comment on. My bet though is it proberly doesn't need adding to.

Wearing and tearing
Jayse


----------



## jgriffin (27/9/05)

I've done the ESB APA a few times, and you definately need more cascade if you want to approach the LCPA. My last one i hopped with 20g of cascade before fermenting with California Ale yeast, and a plug in secondary - i reckon I could have gone 2 plugs and more pellets in primary, which i will try next time.

Having said that, it's a lot milder than LCPA, and i've found that it's a hit with all my mates who would not normally appreciate an APA.


----------



## Mr Bond (27/9/05)

[.
I pressume your talking about the ESB wort which i'll leave to others to comment on. My bet though is it proberly doesn't need adding to.

Wearing and tearing
Jayse
[post="79759"][/post]​[/quote]

I've done a couple of the esb fresh worts and they have absolutely no hop character at all.You would need to add at least 1 gram per litre of finish hops (cascade) to get even close to an lcpa.

I hav'nt done a grumpys one, but based on the beers on tap and collective knowledge of the boys up there it would be well worth the freight and effort to get a new release one apa kit.

Feeling hoppy ,Dave


----------



## als_world (28/9/05)

I've also done the ESB APA and dry hopped with 1oz of cascase pellets in the secondary for 2 weeks. Turned out quite good, and as jgriffin said, is popular with those that aren't quite up to the LCPA or IPA's.


----------



## Steve (28/9/05)

Amarillo hops go nicely with the APA. I make up a hop tea for primary. Boil about 25gms for about 15 mins in a litre of water and use W1056. Turns out nice.


----------



## Jase (6/10/05)

Hi There,

I am experimenting with the practice of putting a fresh wort kit on top of a yeast cake.
I have made an Oktoberfest kit and I put an APA kit with an extra 20 grams of Cascade on the yeast cake. The wort is almost ready to keg.

My question is: If I was to put another APA kit onto this yeast cake, with I need to put another 20 grams of Cascade hops in as well? The ferementer is also starting to look a little messy, which the kraussen and hops clinching onto the top end of the fermenter. Do I need to remove this prior to dumping another fresh wort kit in?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## AndrewQLD (6/10/05)

Jase said:


> Hi There,
> 
> I am experimenting with the practice of putting a fresh wort kit on top of a yeast cake.
> I have made an Oktoberfest kit and I put an APA kit with an extra 20 grams of Cascade on the yeast cake. The wort is almost ready to keg.
> ...




Jase, I would be fermenting in a clean fermenter and not the old one. After you have racked or bottled your fermented brew swirl the yeast back into suspension and then pour from the tap into your new brew in a clean fermenter. And yes you will need to add more aroma hops if you are after more aroma the old stuff will basically be spent.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## pint of lager (6/10/05)

Warning, pitching onto a whole yeastcake can lead to overpitching of yeast, which may give explosive ferment, high temperatures, cloudiness, off flavours and underattenuation of the finished product.

Page 90, "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix.
"Shock excretion refers to the situation where adverse fermentation conditions-most notably high starting gravities and/or high fermentation temperatures - create osmotic-pressure effects on the cell wall. This pressure can cause yeasts to actually reject essential nutrients, most notably wort nitrogen. Lack of nitrogen will inhibit yeast growth, again resulting in a lengthy and disordered fermentation."

Put your wort kit in a fresh fermenter, scoop up two-three desertspoonfuls of yeast off the bottom of your finished brew and use that to star your next brew off.

If you have the knowledge and skills, you could wash the yeast. The safest and easest way is scooping some off the bottom of the primary fermenter.


----------



## mje1980 (6/10/05)

I must agree about pitching onto a whole yeast cake, no matter how big the beer is. I just recently did my 1st barley wine, and i pitched it ( 1090 ) onto a whole yeast cake from a porter. Well, it dropped from 1090, to 1020 in 24hrs!. While im happy the yeast was healthy enought to handle it, it would've been much better to use maybe only a 1/3 or so of the yeast cake, as im sure the fermentation would have been very hot, and has probably caused some harsh flavours etc. It tastes o.k, but harsh ( its in 2ndary now ), and alcoholicy warm. Obviously, with an alc% of around 10,5%, its gunna be a long time before i can tell how much it has affected the beer, but next time i will definately not be pitching so much yeast. I will save some slurry to pitch to 2ndary if necessary.


----------



## jimmyjack (6/10/05)

I have to agree. I have thrown a batch on top of an existing yeast cake with good results but dont recommend it after the first go. I always take a cup full of slurry, clean the primary and then repitch. Its too exspensive to have a bad batch. The Esb kits have got me started on ag and I am going to do my first batch tomorrow morning!!!


----------

