# Hammer 'n' Tongs Draught



## Polar Beer

Hi All

This is all the info I have so far, but it looks grim at this point. I can't tell you who or where the brewing takes place, but I suggest brimstone is a workplace hazard. :unsure: 

Decoding the media blurb below, "good honest" probably means "shithouse and easy to ingest quickly" and I think "legendary" may mean "rool cheap ay"
Expect your local wyno loon to hurl one at you from 14th May onwards.


_Introducing Hammer 'N' Tongs Draught!
26 Apr 2007

Great news for beer lovers! Hammer N Tongs Draught, a great new Aussie brew at a legendary price was launched in 1st Choice Liquor Superstore last week and will hit Liquorland shelves on 14 May.

Hammer 'N' Tongs is the newest private label offering from Coles Liquor and fans of a good, honest brew will love the clean, crisp taste of this great value draught beer. Brewed in the age-old tradition using the purest water, Hammer N Tongs is a good honest beer - smooth and refreshing with no bitter aftertaste.

Available in 6 packs and slabs, Hammer N Tongs not only tastes great, but is available for a legendary everyday price. Slabs will retail for $25.99 each or two for $50.

So drop in to 1st Choice, pick up a slab or a six pack, and whack some in the fridge so youve got a cold one ready for when the thirst hits!_


----------



## Bobby

i think it may be brewed by boags, ala tasman bitter. but dont quote me on that.


----------



## Brewtus

P & L Brazil said:


> with no bitter aftertaste.



Read, 'short boil time with as few hops as we can get away with.'


----------



## brendanos

_"Low on everything, so you can chuck it down hammer n tong..."_


----------



## TerritoryBrew

P & L Brazil said:


> _Introducing Hammer 'N' Tongs Draught!
> 26 Apr 2007
> 
> Great news for beer lovers! Hammer N Tongs Draught, a great new Aussie brew at a legendary price was launched in 1st Choice Liquor Superstore last week and will hit Liquorland shelves on 14 May.
> 
> Hammer 'N' Tongs is the newest private label offering from Coles Liquor and fans of a good, honest brew will love the clean, crisp taste of this great value draught beer. Brewed in the age-old tradition using the purest water, Hammer N Tongs is a good honest beer - smooth and refreshing with no bitter aftertaste.
> 
> Available in 6 packs and slabs, Hammer N Tongs not only tastes great, but is available for a legendary everyday price. Slabs will retail for $25.99 each or two for $50.
> 
> So drop in to 1st Choice, pick up a slab or a six pack, and whack some in the fridge so youve got a cold one ready for when the thirst hits!_



I like the bit about _Great news for beer lovers_. Who are they trying to fool? You know you are in trouble when the introduction sounds like it was written on the back of coaster.

Could be a hit in Alice Springs...


----------



## yardy

P & L Brazil said:


> _
> Available in 6 packs and slabs, Hammer 'N' Tongs not only tastes great, but is available for a legendary everyday price. Slabs will retail for $25.99 each or two for $50.
> 
> 
> _



A slab for $26  

Sure to be good at that price.


----------



## PostModern

2 slabs for $50! My brother will buy $200 worth "to try it out".


----------



## Bobby

even better news is the soon to be released vb midstrength.....


----------



## jimmyjack

Bobby said:


> even better news is the soon to be released vb midstrength.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean VB Gold. I cant believe that a company would want to immitate XXXX Gold!! Cant CUB ever think of somthing original first it was Crown Gold now its VB Gold, Next it will be Carlton Draught Gold and Carlton Midstrength Gold.
> 
> 
> Cheers JJ
Click to expand...


----------



## brendanos

Familiarity is a great selling point.

I like how it's called Draught.


----------



## simpletotoro

funny how Hammer 'N' Tongs rhymes with the demographic no? a slammer in thongs.


----------



## brettprevans

jimmyjack said:


> You mean VB Gold. I cant believe that a company would want to immitate XXXX Gold!! Cant CUB ever think of somthing original first it was Crown Gold now its VB Gold, Next it will be Carlton Draught Gold and Carlton Midstrength Gold.
> Cheers JJ



CUB is jumping on the bandwagon of mid-strenth and sugar free drinks. just look at the market. half the beers and pre-mixed drinks are 'super dry' or 'mid-strength' (smirnoff, bundy, johnnywalker), then you've got Black Douglas bringing out 'Black Doulgas Zero' premixed. f*ckn sugar free scotch cans. I think Jim Beam is also doing it.

Bandwagon marketing. im mean i get the whole responsible drinkning angle, but come one. can anyone tell me they ahve met a bundy drinker who is a responsible drinker? or a smirnoff premix drinker (since they are probably 20yr girls getting plastered.


----------



## Bobby

the super drys are 3.5% also, and they taste terrible!


----------



## petesbrew

On another note, I saw last weekend that Crownies have gone twist top.
Dunno about that... the crown seal was the only thing that gave that beer any "style".


----------



## DrewCarey82

Has anyone actually tried it?

Seriously if you guys ridiculing it havent thats taking the homebrewing elitist crap to a new low....


----------



## Bobby

haha drew is back...

i have tried it btw :blink:


----------



## DrewCarey82

I tell it how it is.

And good to hear! How'd it go mate? Is it easy to go down as I always like to have a couple of cartons of crap on hand for any visitors that stop by as when I spend eight hours on a brew I get a tad selfish with it lol.

And for the record the longer I brew the more I hate your mega swill beers, just hate to see some people on here who automatically ridicule something that they havent even tried.

Its naughty....


----------



## Bobby

Not much to say about it other than it wont suprise you thats for sure. 
Just the same old thing....


----------



## brettprevans

DrewCarey82 said:


> Has anyone actually tried it?
> 
> Seriously if you guys ridiculing it havent thats taking the homebrewing elitist crap to a new low....



I havent tried the 'H&T' yet, hence i didnt comment on it. As for the super dry stuff, I've tasted a few of them. avg. but then again i dont particularly like premixed pdrinks. they taste like syrup and you cant taste the actual spirit. But again, I drink 90% of my spirits straight, or maybe on the rocks.

You gotta let the commercial beer makers play around with cheap beers occationaly as there are plenty of punters out there who dont care if they are drinking a supurb brew or Hahn Ice. Its supply and demand. H&T might be a replacement for Tasman Ice as its name really fell into the background and doesnt get a great review. But its not bad stuff, theres not much too it, but its not horrible. and you've got to start somewhere. 

You dont start drinking Chivas 21yr old, Laiphroig or Laglavulin, you start on Grants, Ballentines, JW etc.

But in saying all this (and its abloody long comment, i know) just bringin out a cheap beer that tastes like shit (if it does taste crap) is just piss poor. there are plenty of Fosters out there and thats unfortunate. no need to pollute the beer pool further.


----------



## brendanos

I was previously only harshing their marketing buzz (having not tried the beer) but I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the beer is yellow chemical flavoured alcoholic fizzy drink that smells like a dog that's been pissed on. That's what a "draught" is, right?


----------



## Kai

DrewCarey82 said:


> Has anyone actually tried it?
> 
> Seriously if you guys ridiculing it havent thats taking the homebrewing elitist crap to a new low....



Hi Drew, 

I'm happy to ridicule it based purely on a single post on an internet forum. Nonetheless, when I see it I will probably try it. Only one stubby though.


----------



## Brewtus

Who will take the challenge to organise a blind tasting by accredited judges with H&T and something that is accepted as a BJCP approved draught style. Test to see if 1/ it follows the style and 2/ it is of good quality.


----------



## Polar Beer

brendanos said:


> I was previously only harshing their marketing buzz (having not tried the beer) but I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that the beer is yellow chemical flavoured alcoholic fizzy drink that smells like a dog that's been pissed on. That's what a "draught" is, right?



Thats right where Im at. The marketing is impressively delusional. 

no taste test = Elitism? I don't think so

This product is bad news and it doesn't matter what it tastes like. The price, name and profile of this 'make me drunk' juice show Coles are only interested in the bottom end of the market with this. It would be fair to assume that investments in quality and taste are only present in sufficient amounts to support that aim. Common sense says it would be an excersise in futility to hold judgement in lieu of a taste test for this one. Im sure I wont spit it out, but Im just as sure I wont be brewing up an AG clone any time soon.

Is it a full strength? If so, then a price point marginally below VB would secure the price conscious beer drinker. $10 below the competitor looks to me like a company trying to sell beer to kids, alcoholics, unemployed, etc. Which is really poor form.

I also just think It will be really shit beer.  

Does any one know what the % is?


----------



## Bobby

i think it is either 4 or 3.8%, cant remeber.


----------



## brendanos

Kai said:


> Hi Drew,
> 
> I'm happy to ridicule it based purely on a single post on an internet forum. Nonetheless, when I see it I will probably try it. Only one stubby though.



I said that about TEDs Platinum, and regretted it. My friends that shouted me it also regretted it, saying that I ruined it for them, as all they could think of when they drank it was my comment that it tasted like warm white goon.

I'll probably try H&T eventually out of curiousity, but science save me if I pay for one. And I'd wager a large sum of money on already knowing what it will taste like.

Keep this shit elite, guys!


----------



## DrewCarey82

To be honest I'll probably try a carton for the hell of it, if nothing else the bottles are reuseable hey!


----------



## brettprevans

brendanos said:


> I said that about TEDs Platinum, and regretted it. My friends that shouted me it also regretted it, saying that I ruined it for them, as all they could think of when they drank it was my comment that it tasted like warm white goon.
> 
> I'll probably try H&T eventually out of curiousity, but science save me if I pay for one. And I'd wager a large sum of money on already knowing what it will taste like.
> 
> Keep this shit elite, guys!



Your right on about TED Platinum. see www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15202

Once again I'll stick up for COles coming out with H&T because afterall they are in the business of trying to make a buck. Shareholders dont care how they do it. even if if does taste like crap and pull the beer market down (if it does indeed taste like crap). Then again who the hell wants to buy beer thats 3.8% or 4% and tastes avg. stuff that. at least as HB's we can make a damn fine ale thats 4%. why bother drinking watered down beer if its tastes bad.


----------



## shamus

I tried this on Saturday at the 1st Choice tasting day..... It didn;t taste very good, but was the type of beer that you;d get used to pretty quick so I reckon wouldmake a pretty good session beer...



also tried Hahn Super Dry and this is seriously the first beer I've ever had that actually tasted like water


----------



## Ives_MD

I get the feeling that this 'hammer n tongs' draught is actually Cascade Brewery's answer to Tasman Bitter. If you look at the packaging, its very block coloured and has a same shape and style as the logo for the DeGraves range (blond, stout etc). 
Also Cascade and Boags have a hugely competitive history. A rivalry if you will, and I think they would have worked hard to get their own unbranded discount beer on the shelves. Maybe to keep the punters happy, but I tip it's too keep the shareholders happy... "Anything Boag's can do we can do better!"

Not that they can though...


----------



## Bobby

No, its from Boags. Cost price of $19 per case.


----------



## DrewCarey82

P & L Brazil said:


> Thats right where Im at. The marketing is impressively delusional.
> 
> no taste test = Elitism? I don't think so
> 
> This product is bad news and it doesn't matter what it tastes like. The price, name and profile of this 'make me drunk' juice show Coles are only interested in the bottom end of the market with this. It would be fair to assume that investments in quality and taste are only present in sufficient amounts to support that aim. Common sense says it would be an excersise in futility to hold judgement in lieu of a taste test for this one. Im sure I wont spit it out, but Im just as sure I wont be brewing up an AG clone any time soon.
> 
> Is it a full strength? If so, then a price point marginally below VB would secure the price conscious beer drinker. $10 below the competitor looks to me like a company trying to sell beer to kids, alcoholics, unemployed, etc. Which is really poor form.
> 
> I also just think It will be really shit beer.
> 
> Does any one know what the % is?



Not everyone feels the need to drink top quality beers.

Fact of life doesnt make them any better or any worse.

It doesnt have to be underage drinkers, or unemployed ect, it may just be someone who doesnt feel like paying $38 a case, I know lots of people in my family alone who cant tell the difference between a New and VB but still love a beer.

More power to them.


----------



## PostModern

DrewCarey82 said:


> Not everyone feels the need to drink top quality beers.
> 
> Fact of life doesnt make them any better or any worse.
> 
> It doesnt have to be underage drinkers, or unemployed ect, it may just be someone who doesnt feel like paying $38 a case, I know lots of people in my family alone who cant tell the difference between a New and VB but still love a beer.
> 
> More power to them.



And more power to brewers who choose to drink and promote better beers. Because there are people "out there" who are happy drinking piss, there is no reason for us, as keen brewers, to condone it. Keep filling the market with crap and people keep accepting crap produce. 

The only reason I can see for big breweries to make crap nasty beer is to keep the shareholders happy with their returns. It does nothing for the craft that we all (well most of us) are so passionate about, it does nothing to lift the overall standard of beer in the marketplace. Promoting *good beer* as well as brewing *good beer* is what we should all stand for.

Are you suggesting that we should all be shouting on the rooftops "More cheap, piss-like beer is here!"??? Dancing in the streets with joy and all that?

The correct reaction in this brewing forum is one of derision. I too will poo-poo it without tasting it, thanks very much. (That said, if one was offered to me, I would taste it, as I have tasted most beers I've seen at least once).


----------



## Gerard_M

DrewCarey82 said:


> thats taking the homebrewing elitist crap to a new low....



You can't take elitist behavior to a new low, wouldn't the fact that we are elitist mean that we take it up a level?

No I haven't tried this beer, & I am certain I won't be offered one.

Cheers
Gerard


----------



## DrewCarey82

I try to brew the best beer I can I am long past the K&K days that I used to be famous for on here, I make a point of using fresh hops/grains and a good yeast and everything else to make a wide variety of styles from Porters to APA's.

Sure its okay to want to promote the industry and encourage people to try the wide variety of beers out there ect and I do it myself by telling many workmates and friends about it and how cheap and much better it is and providing a tonne of samplers.

However because people drink a beer thats cheaper then most it should really be discouraged that are sterotyped as "unemployed and underaged"

Like honestly how many people in here and the same for most people you know got into brewing razzle dazzle beers? Most here if they honest can admit that they started brewing to make the "same as at the pub" 

I say get people through the door before showing them the benefits of all the extra's, theres so many steps to improve ur beers and if on a website like this they only see people bagging the beers they see as good then they will very likely be put off the whole HB idea in the first place.

What a rant! - Lets wait for me to be shot down.


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

_Introducing Hammer 'N' Tongs Draught!
26 Apr 2007

Great news for beer lovers! Hammer N Tongs Draught, a great new Aussie brew at a legendary price was launched in 1st Choice Liquor Superstore last week and will hit Liquorland shelves on 14 May.

Hammer 'N' Tongs is the newest private label offering from Coles Liquor and fans of a good, honest brew will love the clean, crisp taste of this great value draught beer. Brewed in the age-old tradition using the purest water, Hammer N Tongs is a good honest beer - smooth and refreshing with no bitter aftertaste.

Available in 6 packs and slabs, Hammer N Tongs not only tastes great, but is available for a legendary everyday price. Slabs will retail for $25.99 each or two for $50.

So drop in to 1st Choice, pick up a slab or a six pack, and whack some in the fridge so youve got a cold one ready for when the thirst hits!_
[/quote]


Do you really think the greater population actually give a rats about the taste. I remeber not so long ago in a far away place I consumed megaswill. 
Just think, what is there, around 4,000 plus registered users on this forum? Out of that "maybe" 10% are regular users. Then take into account how many million people consume beer but don't dabble in homebrewing. Theres your answer not to many care. I remember when the West End Eagle Blue came along, a light beer that as I now recall tasted like.......have a guess. Thats 10 yrs ago + The taste still lingers that was how bad it was. I think it died a slow death. The H&T will probally go the same way. Only one thing may save it and thats the price. You never know it may even promote more people to start brewing.

Cheers BYB


----------



## PostModern

BYB said:


> Do you really think the greater population actually give a rats about the taste.



Those same people eat white bread every day, drive Falcodores and live in off-the-plan cookie-cutter houses. White bread, Falcodore, cookie-cutter beer is all they want and is what they'll continue to get. Beer is simply a cold alcohol delivery vehicle to them, yes?

Give me my grainy bread, weird cars, architect designed housing and good beer elitism any day.

fyi, DC, I started brewing to make beer "better than the pub". If all I wanted was cheap, I'd be stocking up on the Liquorland beer-de-jour as well.


----------



## DrewCarey82

You've totally missed my point or just ignored it PM.

I said thats the reason most people get into it, then via the exposure to it or experimentation slowly but surely and improve there methods and try different styles.


----------



## SJW

I'm with you PostModern,
I can understand the Coles of this world wanting to make a buck but it they put some effort into producing a quality drop and a competitive price maybe the "single brain cell megaswill drinker" out there might come to appreciate something other than VB and NEW. But then again with the mentallity of the "single brain cell megaswill drinker" they would not know a good beer if it jumped up and poured itself down their necks.
But I think there will aways be a big division between the two.


----------



## DrewCarey82

At the end of the day the best beer is the one that you enjoy the most.

Some people swear by Tiger to me its sewerage water.


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

PostModern said:


> off-the-plan cookie-cutter houses.



I quite like my "off the-plan cookie-cutter house"  But if you saw my outback shed. Its a little untidy but it has some hidden features. Woops yep off topic. But I couldnt resist. Refer to the post show us your shed

BYB


----------



## Steve

this is fun....just like the ole days hey?....talk about de-ja-vu!


----------



## Stuster

Steve said:


> this is fun....just like the ole days hey?....talk about de-ja-vu!



It's great, isn't it? You got the popcorn, Steve?


----------



## DrewCarey82

I've just never liked the derogatory tone that a lot of people have when they refer to 95% of the population that is happy and enjoys drinking tooheys new ect.... Its unnecessary.


----------



## DJR

I would buy Amsterdam Mariner if it came in brown bottles...

Does HnT Draught (sic) come in brown bottles?


----------



## PostModern

DrewCarey82 said:


> You've totally missed my point or just ignored it PM.
> 
> I said thats the reason most people get into it, then via the exposure to it or experimentation slowly but surely and improve there methods and try different styles.



I haven't missed the point, I've just stepped up the elitism a notch to piss you off, DC. 



DJR said:


> I would buy Amsterdam Mariner if it came in brown bottles...



If there was more cheap beer like Mariner, I'd buy more cheap beer.


----------



## DrewCarey82

My father killed my passion for Amsterdam Mariner when it was on special for $15 @ young IGA and he brought 10 cases, 2 weeks of that was just about enough for me.... Cant stand the stuff now....

But back on topic PM, if thats how ya get ya kicks glad I could provide some entertainment


----------



## PostModern

DrewCarey82 said:


> I've just never liked the derogatory tone that a lot of people have when they refer to 95% of the population that is happy and enjoys drinking tooheys new ect.... Its unnecessary.



There's nothing derogatory about my point. Those people are happy and continue to make the same choices, that's their right. If I want to buy a light beer, I'll buy Rogers, but I like beer. I'll wager HnT is crap and is made for a marketing position amongst all the other low margin-high volume boring beers. We're a beer forum, we're allowed to bag bad beer, it is the nature of the site. Passion for _good_ beer. 




DrewCarey82 said:


> My father killed my passion for Amsterdam Mariner when it was on special for $15 @ young IGA and he brought 10 cases, 2 weeks of that was just about enough for me.... Cant stand the stuff now....
> 
> But back on topic PM, if thats how ya get ya kicks glad I could provide some entertainment



You're always good for a good argument and a good laugh DC.  :beer:


----------



## petesbrew

It's about damn time we had another bitchfight. (and over a cheap beer too! brilliant!)
It makes a slow arvo at work a lot more bearable.
Nice work, PoMo & DC. :beer:


----------



## DrewCarey82

I like to keep things interesting here and provide the alternative point of view


----------



## tangent

> Those same people eat white bread every day, drive Falcodores and live in off-the-plan cookie-cutter houses. White bread, Falcodore, cookie-cutter beer is all they want and is what they'll continue to get.


well said :beer: can i buy that on a t-shirt?


----------



## kook

> _Introducing Hammer 'N' Tongs Chardonnay!
> 26 Apr 2007
> 
> Great news for wine lovers! Hammer N Tongs Chardonnay, a great new Aussie white at a legendary price was launched in 1st Choice Liquor Superstore last week and will hit Liquorland shelves on 14 May.
> 
> Hammer 'N' Tongs Chardonnay is the newest private label offering from Coles Liquor and fans of a good, honest wine will love the clean, crisp taste of this great value Chardonnay. Created in the age-old tradition using the purest grapes, Hammer N Tongs is a good honest Chardonnay - smooth and refreshing with no real taste.
> 
> Available in 750ml bottles and 4 litre casks, Hammer N Tongs not only tastes great, but is available for a legendary everyday price. Casks will retail for $6.99 each or two for $12.
> 
> So drop in to 1st Choice, pick up a bottle or cask, and whack some in the fridge so youve got a cold one ready for when the thirst hits!_



Can you ever see that working?


----------



## DrewCarey82

Casks of beer?

Maybe u's were right about it being for alco's lol.


----------



## DJR

DrewCarey82 said:


> Casks of beer?
> 
> Maybe u's were right about it being for alco's lol.



Read the post Ben - it's talking about wine and how people would never fall for such a cheap crappy product spiel and marketing model if it were wine. Sure there's cheap wine out there but there's not a big fuss about it.


----------



## tangent

sadly Kook, yes. yes i can

if you hadn't noticed, it's all about price point.


----------



## DrewCarey82

DJR said:


> Read the post Ben - it's talking about wine and how people would never fall for such a cheap crappy product spiel and marketing model if it were wine. Sure there's cheap wine out there but there's not a big fuss about it.



I am sorry master.....

Pls dont put me back in the cellar......!!!!


----------



## Barramundi

PostModern said:


> We're a beer forum, we're allowed to bag bad beer, it is the nature of the site. Passion for _good_ beer.




bagging a beer is one thing and totally acceptable , but bagging a brewer especially a new one for wanting to copy a beer that he/she likes at the time is a different issue and i dont believe it to be acceptable...

everyone has their own tastes , which change with time and experience...


----------



## PostModern

tangent said:


> well said :beer: can i buy that on a t-shirt?



Done. Get it at my Cafe Press shop. Available in either golf shirt or Elite organic cotton T-shirt.


----------



## PostModern

Barramundi said:


> bagging a beer is one thing and totally acceptable , but bagging a brewer especially a new one for wanting to copy a beer that he/she likes at the time is a different issue and i dont believe it to be acceptable...
> 
> everyone has their own tastes , which change with time and experience...



Whoa there. No one has asked to clone this beer and I haven't bagged anyone for wanting to clone anything recently. Your implication is that I have done that in this thread. Easy there! (Who have I done that to in the past? Maybe a Corona or TED wanna-brewer?)


----------



## Ives_MD

yardy said:


> A slab for $26
> 
> Sure to be good at that price.



Maybe so, however, if you were to draw your attention to Coles' other latest beer marketing tool, they are rolling back, no sorry rewinding the price or Peroni to $50 a slab. Why the comparison you may ask?

If H'n'T is selling at just above $25, thats 2 slabs per slab of Peroni, so using price as an indicator of quality, H'n'T would be around half as good.

Any beer half as good as Peroni may be worth a try wouldnt you agree??


----------



## PostModern

Masterbrewer Ives said:


> If H'n'T is selling at just above $25, thats 2 slabs per slab of Peroni, so using price as an indicator of quality, H'n'T would be around half as good.
> 
> Any beer half as good as Peroni may be worth a try wouldnt you agree??



Take out the excise and bottle prices when you make your comparison. Excise, say $15 per case for the Peroni and $10 for the HnT, then the bottles, which we'll generously (cheaply) price at $8 each. Allow $10 for transporting the Peroni and you're left with "raw" prices of a $7 HnT vs a $22 Peroni. Now we're probably looking at equitable pricing


----------



## Ives_MD

PostModern said:


> Take out the excise and bottle prices when you make your comparison. Excise, say $15 per case for the Peroni and $10 for the HnT, then the bottles, which we'll generously (cheaply) price at $8 each. Allow $10 for transporting the Peroni and you're left with "raw" prices of a $7 HnT vs a $22 Peroni. Now we're probably looking at equitable pricing




Thank you for my quick lesson in beer-economics. My last post was intended as humurous however. I apologise for any lack of clarity (or indeed humour) on my part.

However you did neglect to add transport cost for H'n'T. given that we have _apparently agreed _ that it is brewed by Boags, it would need to travel interstate... Again, my economics is poor, transport costs from italy = transport costs from Tasmania???

I think my argument is quickly failing...


----------



## Barramundi

PostModern said:


> Whoa there. No one has asked to clone this beer and I haven't bagged anyone for wanting to clone anything recently. Your implication is that I have done that in this thread. Easy there! (Who have I done that to in the past? Maybe a Corona or TED wanna-brewer?)




wasnt implicating you personally PoMo just a general comment , sorry for any confusion , but i have seen some from time to time caning someone who asks for a recipe for say a NEW or VB ???

is it not better to nurture new brewers than tell them their beer of choice is trash ??

just my 20c worth


----------



## PostModern

Masterbrewer Ives said:


> Thank you for my quick lesson in beer-economics. My last post was intended as humurous however. I apologise for any lack of clarity (or indeed humour) on my part.
> 
> However you did neglect to add transport cost for H'n'T. given that we have _apparently agreed _ that it is brewed by Boags, it would need to travel interstate... Again, my economics is poor, transport costs from italy = transport costs from Tasmania???
> 
> I think my argument is quickly failing...



I was just saying the real price is like 3:1 instead of the 2:1 of retail pricing, which is probably a fairer barometer of quality.



Barramundi said:


> wasnt implicating you personally PoMo just a general comment , sorry for any confusion , but i have seen some from time to time caning someone who asks for a recipe for say a NEW or VB ???
> 
> is it not better to nurture new brewers than tell them their beer of choice is trash ??
> 
> just my 20c worth



When I do pipe up in those sort of threads, I generally warn the n00b that the clone they brew at home runs the distinct risk of tasting better than the beer they're after cloning. Let's face it, it's hard to make beer taste as bad as the big boys do it  (barring bad sanitation, etc).

Anyway, has anyone actually bought and tasted this HnT yet? C'mon DC, get off your chair and go sample some for us!


----------



## SJW

The way I see it is Craft Brewers on a Brewing Forum can't bag the crap out of another cheap, horse piss megswill beer on the market, WHO THE HELL CAN. It's fun. They keep making the trash and we'll keep bag'in it. :angry:


----------



## 0M39A

meh, chances are it will sell, and it will sell well due to the cheap price.

Wasnt that long ago that i would have been running out and buying a carton, and not really caring how bad it tasted so long as it got me pissed.

The only reason I got into homebrewing was because I saw how I could save myself a few pennies.

Thank god the side effect of this was doing a bit more research and finding out I could actually make some damn nice beers, so then I started using the money that I was actually saving to buy some really nice commercial beers, then trying to clone them, and before I knew it I couldn't stand any of the generic megaswills either.

The sad part is though, that 95% of the public wont go down this path, and when they see it in the bottle-o for only $26 or two for $50, they will either buy it because its cheep, or simply walk straight past it because they are hardcore brand name loyalists and wont go near anything else (ie. my father, no matter how much I try and sway him, pretty much all he will drink is that filth carlton cold, even though admitting to enjoying some of my homebrews)


----------



## PostModern

0M39A said:


> The sad part is though, that 95% of the public wont go down this path, and when they see it in the bottle-o for only $26 or two for $50, they will either buy it because its cheep, or simply walk straight past it because they are hardcore brand name loyalists and wont go near anything else (ie. my father, no matter how much I try and sway him, pretty much all he will drink is that filth carlton cold, even though admitting to enjoying some of my homebrews)



Welcome to the 5%.


----------



## Darren

The most amusing trick you can do is put some of your HB into a "mega-swill" bottle. Surprising how many will not even notice it is not their favorite brand!!

I suggest at least a good proportion of the population have no or poorly operating taste buds.

cheers

Darren


----------



## Hutch

PostModern said:


> Done. Get it at my Cafe Press shop. Available in either golf shirt or Elite organic cotton T-shirt.



Sorry to go off topic, but...

PoMo, How the [email protected] did you get that quote onto a T-shirt, get some happy snaps posted on the internet, and have it made in the USA all in half an hour?
Did I miss something...
:blink: :huh:


----------



## boingk

Just read over the previous posts...this is nuts! Who cares about some new beer if we all make and drink our own? Let the masses have their choices - we can make whatever we please, whenever we choose to do so. 

Why do people buy it? Three reasons:

Lack of cash,
Lack of taste,
Lack of diversity [brand loyalty].

Trust me, as a uni student I know all three. But ultimately it doesn't matter what some corporate pig pulled out of his arse, the simple thing is that we are all contented with drinking our own style of beverage be it HB, premium commercial, or mega-swill. Calm down everyone, and knock back another HB!


----------



## PostModern

Hutch said:


> Sorry to go off topic, but...
> 
> PoMo, How the [email protected] did you get that quote onto a T-shirt, get some happy snaps posted on the internet, and have it made in the USA all in half an hour?
> Did I miss something...
> :blink: :huh:



Contacts, mate. Contacts 




boingk said:


> Just read over the previous posts...this is nuts! Who cares about some new beer if we all make and drink our own? Let the masses have their choices - we can make whatever we please, whenever we choose to do so.
> 
> Why do people buy it? Three reasons:
> 
> Lack of cash,
> Lack of taste,
> Lack of diversity [brand loyalty].
> 
> Trust me, as a uni student I know all three. But ultimately it doesn't matter what some corporate pig pulled out of his arse, the simple thing is that we are all contented with drinking our own style of beverage be it HB, premium commercial, or mega-swill. Calm down everyone, and knock back another HB!



Dude, this thread is a good old fashioned flame war. Take it all with a grain of salt.


----------



## Aviary

Hey all, 

If a beer is crap and cheap that that is a good thing, right? 

Surely it's better than a crap beer that's expensive?

Crown, Amstel, Budweiser? Cold Shot anyone?

The sad thing is, home brew is great for saving money while you're actually drinking your own beer, but the beer snobbery that ensues is costing me a fortune when I have to drink away from home.


----------



## Steve

drew! back in yer cage this instant! I love amsterdam mariner @ $30 a case.
Stuster....I have an oversized mega popcorn n coke and $10 bucks worth of lollies ... oh and a choc top to boot!
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

Steve said:


> drew! back in yer cage this instant! I love amsterdam mariner @ $30 a case.
> Stuster....I have an oversized mega popcorn n coke and $10 bucks worth of lollies ... oh and a choc top to boot!
> Cheers
> Steve



Bump..
Just got home from work and could not believe this post was still going. It makes for great reading,so lets just bump it because its late. I don't won't anyone to lose sight of it. Lets see if its still going tonight when I get home.  

BYB


----------



## Thirsty Boy

Wait,

I missed the bit where the mega brewers hold a gun to peoples head and force them to drink cheap, bad beer... I must have been out of town, which explains why I drink either homebrew or decent commercial beer.

Its not like the big brewers dont actually make any good beer... _they do_. Its not like the (majority of) brewers at the mega breweries dont like good beer themselves... _they do_ and in fact are some of the most hard core beer geeks you will ever meet! The good beer is there, the breweries make at least as much selling a slab of great beer as they do selling swill; and the bottles shops actually make some money selling quality beer (they make next to nothing on the mega swill).... why in hell does everyone think that the breweries "want" you to only like flavourless crap?? Why would they? Its just nonsense!

The truth is that the breweries make lightly (no) flavoured beers with light body and high fizz, because thats what people want. Haven't you guys heard of focus groups??

Take 100 people, put them in a room, ask them what sort of beer they want you to make....

Answer --- Ummmm, "easy to drink", "not too expensive", "none of that dark beer shit", "well, I dont really like beer so nothing too bitter" repeat 94 more times ...... oh and there are 2 guys over in the corner saying something about flavour, malt and hops.

Mega brewer X, would actually quite like to make a lot of money, so unsurprisingly, he listens the hardest to the 98 flavour retards and releases H'n'T or Extra Dry or Empire lager. The fact that Joe and Jim had something to say about quality and taste, is why you have Matilda Bay and James Squire.

Actually, it makes bugger all economic sense for the megas to waste time and money on their "craft" brew sections. Yeah, they are hedging their bets that the botique end of the market might turn into something bigger, but they _could_ smother it if they wanted and take it out of the equation... but they dont.

Instead they hire guys to promote the stuff, they send brewers to international beer competitions with beers like Barking Duck, they let the guy at the Portland brew up something like the Speculator, they host beer dinners where the freak from the mega brewery lets you taste the beer that he threw all the Brett and Pedio into just before he shoved it into a chardonay barrel for 6 months.

Those things aren't happening because the Mega breweries want to "force" crappy beer onto the market, they are happening, at least partially, because there really are some people in the big brewing industry with a genuine passion for beer. They hold off the bean counters with one hand and brew fantastic beer with the other, all the while hoping that the unwashed masses will finally wake up and make great beer economically viable.

How about occasionally encouraging the big boys to do even more by telling them how much you like what they have done so far? Or.... you could just bitch about them trying to make a buck while they wait, till they give up.

End of rant 

Thirsty h34r: 

PS: you must have gotten through at least a medium sized popcorn during that little tirade


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt

Thirsty Boy said:


> Wait,
> 
> I missed the bit where the mega brewers hold a gun to peoples head and force them to drink cheap, bad beer... I must have been out of town, which explains why I drink either homebrew or decent commercial beer.
> 
> Its not like the big brewers dont actually make any good beer... _they do_. Its not like the (majority of) brewers at the mega breweries dont like good beer themselves... _they do_ and in fact are some of the most hard core beer geeks you will ever meet! The good beer is there, the breweries make at least as much selling a slab of great beer as they do selling swill; and the bottles shops actually make some money selling quality beer (they make next to nothing on the mega swill).... why in hell does everyone think that the breweries "want" you to only like flavourless crap?? Why would they? Its just nonsense!
> 
> The truth is that the breweries make lightly (no) flavoured beers with light body and high fizz, because thats what people want. Haven't you guys heard of focus groups??
> 
> Take 100 people, put them in a room, ask them what sort of beer they want you to make....
> 
> Answer --- Ummmm, "easy to drink", "not too expensive", "none of that dark beer shit", "well, I dont really like beer so nothing too bitter" repeat 94 more times ...... oh and there are 2 guys over in the corner saying something about flavour, malt and hops.
> 
> Mega brewer X, would actually quite like to make a lot of money, so unsurprisingly, he listens the hardest to the 98 flavour retards and releases H'n'T or Extra Dry or Empire lager. The fact that Joe and Jim had something to say about quality and taste, is why you have Matilda Bay and James Squire.
> 
> Actually, it makes bugger all economic sense for the megas to waste time and money on their "craft" brew sections. Yeah, they are hedging their bets that the botique end of the market might turn into something bigger, but they _could_ smother it if they wanted and take it out of the equation... but they dont.
> 
> Instead they hire guys to promote the stuff, they send brewers to international beer competitions with beers like Barking Duck, they let the guy at the Portland brew up something like the Speculator, they host beer dinners where the freak from the mega brewery lets you taste the beer that he threw all the Brett and Pedio into just before he shoved it into a chardonay barrel for 6 months.
> 
> Those things aren't happening because the Mega breweries want to "force" crappy beer onto the market, they are happening, at least partially, because there really are some people in the big brewing industry with a genuine passion for beer. They hold off the bean counters with one hand and brew fantastic beer with the other, all the while hoping that the unwashed masses will finally wake up and make great beer economically viable.
> 
> How about occasionally encouraging the big boys to do even more by telling them how much you like what they have done so far? Or.... you could just bitch about them trying to make a buck while they wait, till they give up.
> 
> End of rant
> 
> Thirsty h34r:
> 
> PS: you must have gotten through at least a medium sized popcorn during that little tirade



Paraphrased: "In a market economy, consumers have choice. You may not choose to drink the Megabrews, but you're almost irrelevant to them if you don't."

I'm kinda happy being irrelevant. I don't like popcorn.

B)


----------



## DrewCarey82

Wow 5 pages on a beer that most of us wouldnt spend 20c on how amusing lol.

Great promotion for it anyway.


----------



## Stuster

Great post, Thirsty. I did get through most of a small (3kg) popcorn.  

Very interesting info about the big brewers. Sounds like a frustrating job in the big breweries for those who are keen to make good beer, but instead have to make yellow fizz. Marketing rules. :blink: 

Do the focus groups ever give the 'flavour retards' anything different to actually taste?

DC, you change your position so often it's hard to keep up.



DrewCarey82 said:


> To be honest I'll probably try a carton for the hell of it, if nothing else the bottles are reuseable hey!





DrewCarey82 said:


> Wow 5 pages on a beer that most of us wouldnt spend 20c on how amusing lol.


----------



## DrewCarey82

Most of us.

As you know I am the exception the rule.

Like in poker in real life, always leave yourself outs!

Cheers.


----------



## Uncle Fester

Betcha they No-Chill it as well h34r: 

Fess.


----------



## DJR

I saw it in Liquorland @ world square last night, funny thing is, after all this, i almost thought of buying some before i woke up and realised i have much more tasty beer at home. Cracked a Saison after getting in the door. :beerbang:


----------



## PostModern

DJR said:


> I saw it in Liquorland @ world square last night, funny thing is, after all this, i almost thought of buying some before i woke up and realised i have much more tasty beer at home. Cracked a Saison after getting in the door. :beerbang:



Do they sell it in the singles fridge? I'd consider buying ~one~ just so I know what I'm bagging, but a whole carton or even a sixer: no %$&(ing way!


----------



## Bobby

yep for $2... h34r: 

I have a casual job at the said retailer.


----------



## PostModern

Bobby said:


> yep for $2... h34r:
> 
> I have a casual job at the said retailer.



Sold! I'll sneak out at lunchtime and have a taste tonight.


----------



## PostModern

I didn't manage to get to World Square yesterday, but I did today. I am now the "proud"(??) owner of a bottle of Hammer 'N' Tongs. The brewer is listed as "Freeman & Sons Brewing Corp" on the logo and "Australian Beer Connoisseurs" of Tooronga in the small print. The bottle has Brewed in Tasmania embossed on it, like Boags Draught.

Will report back when I sipped the golden nectar within. Has anyone else braved a taste yet?


----------



## winkle

PostModern said:


> I didn't manage to get to World Square yesterday, but I did today. I am now the "proud"(??) owner of a bottle of Hammer 'N' Tongs. The brewer is listed as "Freeman & Sons Brewing Corp" on the logo and "Australian Beer Connoisseurs" of Tooronga in the small print. The bottle has Brewed in Tasmania embossed on it, like Boags Draught.
> 
> Will report back when I sipped the golden nectar within. Has anyone else braved a taste yet?



I hope it's kinder to your taste buds than the VB Mid. :unsure:


----------



## PostModern

All of my previous prejudices about this beer are justified. Just another boring megalager. I assume the lower price is possible because of lower excise due to the 4% alc as opposed to 4.8%-5% of other beers. I guess they get a Tasman bitter or something and add 20% more water.

Ho-hum cookie-cutter lager. No faults, but nothing special about it. My 10 year old son tasted it and said "bland".


----------



## danbeer

PostModern said:


> My 10 year old son tasted it and said "bland".



LOL!


----------



## Polar Beer

PostModern said:


> My 10 year old son tasted it....



I told you this was aimed at kids


----------



## 0M39A

anyone else not surprised the final verdict is that its pretty much the same as every other macro-lager out there on the market?


----------



## DJR

0M39A said:


> anyone else not surprised the final verdict is that its pretty much the same as every other macro-lager out there on the market?



Naah i was thinking it would be australia's answer to westvleteren 12!!

:lol:


----------



## Vlad the Pale Aler

"the public wants what the public gets"

- Paul Weller


----------



## hughman666

DrewCarey82 said:


> My father killed my passion for Amsterdam Mariner when it was on special for $15 @ young IGA and he brought 10 cases, 2 weeks of that was just about enough for me.... Cant stand the stuff now....
> 
> But back on topic PM, if thats how ya get ya kicks glad I could provide some entertainment



when the hell was this on special for $15? please explain DC, i have never seen it this cheap...


----------



## Uncle Fester

PostModern said:


> All of my previous prejudices about this beer are justified. Just another boring megalager. I assume the lower price is possible because of lower excise due to the 4% alc as opposed to 4.8%-5% of other beers. I guess they get a Tasman bitter or something and add 20% more water.
> 
> Ho-hum cookie-cutter lager. No faults, but nothing special about it. My 10 year old son tasted it and said "bland".




Does this mean that we are now justified in being elitist? or does it still mean we are full of beer-wank?


(I will continue to be elitist until megaswill tastes better, and is purchasable in Corny kegs for a sub $30 price)


Festa.


----------



## DrewCarey82

I may go a case to have on hand, I always like to have something like extra dry when I need to slam em down fast after a shocker of a day.


----------



## DJR

DrewCarey82 said:


> I may go a case to have on hand, I always like to have something like extra dry when I need to slam em down fast after a shocker of a day.



Aha - just like we said, it's for alcoholics h34r:


----------



## DrewCarey82

How is that alcoholism?

I am sure I am not the only person on here who has a beer or 5 to relax after a shocker of a day.


----------



## oldbugman

I much prefer to come home and shoot up.


----------



## Wardhog

OldBugman said:


> I much prefer to come home and shoot up.



What, a syringe full of megaswill straight into the arm? Wouldn't HB be better?


----------



## PostModern

DrewCarey82 said:


> How is that alcoholism?
> 
> I am sure I am not the only person on here who has a beer or 5 to relax after a shocker of a day.



I'm not an alcoholic. Alcoholics go to meetings.

If I have a pint or two after work, it'll be a nice crafted pint or two.

btw, H'n'T is not dry. It's watery.



P & L Brazil said:


> I told you this was aimed at kids



Nah, my kid didn't like it. He's a homebrewer's son after all


----------



## maltedhopalong

OldBugman said:


> I much prefer to come home and shoot up.



Yeah, Beer for the stress, "ice" to keep me from falling alseep (beer is a depressant after all!), heroin to keep me from jumping outta my skin and then some coke bring it all back into balance.

I'll buy H'n'T but thank goodness I'm not an alcoholic!


----------



## boingk

PoMo: Nah, my kid didn't like it...

HAHAHA! Thats awesome. Reminds me of Dad giving me a sip of his beer when I was little. Didn't go much on it, but my brother practically ripped it out of his hands. Think good old Dad let him have maybe a 1/4 of the bottle? Fair bit for a toddler, LMAO!


----------



## PostModern

boingk said:


> PoMo: Nah, my kid didn't like it...
> 
> HAHAHA! Thats awesome. Reminds me of Dad giving me a sip of his beer when I was little. Didn't go much on it, but my brother practically ripped it out of his hands. Think good old Dad let him have maybe a 1/4 of the bottle? Fair bit for a toddler, LMAO!



I let him (and his two little brothers) have a taste of most of my brews, just a sip. I'm trying to develop their palates so they don't end up being H'n'T junkies. Beer should be appreciated for it's taste, not dumbed down.


----------



## DrewCarey82

Dry good water bad, may try a 6 pack but definately not a carton up front.

Cheers PM.


----------



## petesbrew

DrewCarey82 said:


> Dry good water bad, may try a 6 pack but definately not a carton up front.
> 
> Cheers PM.



Yeah I reckon a six pack is a good try to if it's worthy of at least a session drink. 
I have my daughter's 1st coming up in a few months time, and will need a backup case or two of megaswill. I don't want ALL of my stocks drunk now do I? Gotta check this one out to see if it's at least drinkable.


----------



## micka

P & L Brazil said:


> Hi All
> 
> This is all the info I have so far, but it looks grim at this point. I can't tell you who or where the brewing takes place, but I suggest brimstone is a workplace hazard. :unsure:
> 
> Decoding the media blurb below, "good honest" probably means "shithouse and easy to ingest quickly" and I think "legendary" may mean "rool cheap ay"
> Expect your local wyno loon to hurl one at you from 14th May onwards.
> _Introducing Hammer 'N' Tongs Draught!
> 26 Apr 2007
> 
> Great news for beer lovers! Hammer N Tongs Draught, a great new Aussie brew at a legendary price was launched in 1st Choice Liquor Superstore last week and will hit Liquorland shelves on 14 May.
> 
> Hammer 'N' Tongs is the newest private label offering from Coles Liquor and fans of a good, honest brew will love the clean, crisp taste of this great value draught beer. Brewed in the age-old tradition using the purest water, Hammer N Tongs is a good honest beer - smooth and refreshing with no bitter aftertaste.
> 
> Available in 6 packs and slabs, Hammer N Tongs not only tastes great, but is available for a legendary everyday price. Slabs will retail for $25.99 each or two for $50.
> 
> So drop in to 1st Choice, pick up a slab or a six pack, and whack some in the fridge so youve got a cold one ready for when the thirst hits!_


Thats a good price for a beer I can drink Ill only drink it to get my Hb bottle collection up.
I hope they come in Long neck.

Micka


----------



## Ives_MD

micka said:


> Thats a good price for a beer I can drink Ill only drink it to get my Hb bottle collection up.
> I hope they come in Long neck.
> 
> Micka




They dont come in longnecks mate sorry. If your that keen on stocking up bottles for your HB I'd suggest paying your nearest RSL/Footy Club to keep a few long necks for you, that way you dont have to drink this shit.

(Unless you really want to, I mean its not _that_ bad...)


----------



## chillamacgilla73

I had one as pre dinner drink at a BYO cheapo Thai restaurant on Saturday night. Watery fizzy cats urine that lacked any determinable flavour, body, aroma. Thank god I drank a pint stubby of LCPA after and not beforehand! If your skint and in the mood for waking up with a hangover - this could be your beer....


----------



## Ives_MD

I just thought I'd be the first one to get in quickly and re-open this can of worms. Turns out Hammer n Tongs is brewed by the old boys at Boags, i concede, however as it was reviewed in todays Herald Sun by Greg Thom, H'n'T is referred to as "an agreeable drop that's perfect for thos who feel like kicking back with a couple of mild stubbies."

I translate: "a deplorable drop, that's perfect for those on the dole who are looking to get shitfaced off a few stubbies..."

Haha, just trying to revive this dormant debate, Thom seems to think that H'n'T is worth purchasing, although the many references to the good work Coles Group and Liqourland do, it'd be safe to say they mey be putting an extra couple of dollars under the table and into his pocket...

>> Debate away...


----------



## tangent

shitfaced? it's a midstrength! doleys would prefer the alc% value of cask wine i'm sure 
"agreeable" in a review means "it didn't make me vomit and i almost finished it"

i tried it, it was slightly less forgettable than i expected but i won't go searching for it again.


----------



## Ives_MD

tangent said:


> shitfaced? it's a midstrength! doleys would prefer the alc% value of cask wine i'm sure
> "agreeable" in a review means "it didn't make me vomit and i almost finished it"
> 
> i tried it, it was slightly less forgettable than i expected but i won't go searching for it again.




Ok sorry i should have proofread my comment lol

replace few stubbies with many stubbies. or work into the equation the fact that its so cheap, you can afford a couple of scotches or rums before the H'n'T. If you were drinking H'n'T for the taste anyway, you'd wanna start off shitfaced... Maybe I've been to harsh...


----------



## grinder

chillamacgilla73 said:


> I had one as pre dinner drink at a BYO cheapo Thai restaurant on Saturday night. Watery fizzy cats urine that lacked any determinable flavour, body, aroma. Thank god I drank a pint stubby of LCPA after and not beforehand! If your skint and in the mood for waking up with a hangover - this could be your beer....


Shit beer. Don't waste your time & money buying & drinking this rubbish. I bought 1 to try, Had one sip then poored the rest down the sink. Absolute crap


----------



## sinkas

I tried this, certinly not memorable, but it did have alot more horrid POR flavour than I imagined it would.
Most punters dont realise its only 4% Mostly South Africans that buy it.


----------



## domonsura

:huh: and we are still discussing this in the context of it being beer? I wouldn't even try to poison my ex-wife with it. :lol:


----------



## Uncle Fester

domonsura said:


> :huh: and we are still discussing this in the context of it being beer? I wouldn't even try to poison my ex-wife with it. :lol:




You're right.... Chirrosis of the liver is far too quick a way for the lobster to exit stage left...



Maybe Parkinsons????



(In case youre wondering - Lobster... Simple analogy.... Tail full of meat, and a head full of shit)


Festa.


----------



## bigholty

I'm going to bump this thread as I've had the (dis)pleasure of trying this Hammer'n'Tongs today and thought I'd add my two-bob. I tend to agree with the general consensus of shitedom. My first whiff reminded me of the K&K brews done at 26C, back when I was but a young lad. You get that cidery smell straight up, certainly no hops there to mask it. But, it still gurgles down the gullet when you invert the bottle. The missus was good enough to buy a box to take to a party and brought most of it home. So while I'm complaining about the taste (or lack thereof), at least at the end of it I get a couple of dozen empty 375ml brown crown-seal bottles (not the annoying 330ml bastards) with cheap labels that come off easily. Is it wrong to be more excited about the bottle, than the beer it contains??


----------



## bljpoad

bigh said:


> Is it wrong to be more excited about the bottle, than the beer it contains??



Hell no! I do that all the time! :beerbang:


----------



## MHB

IP Australia
A really handy place to dig up info on mystery products; this is what they had to say about Hammer & Tongs.

MHB


Trade Mark : 1152094
Word: FREEMAN & SONS BREWING CO. HAMMER 'N' TONGS DRAUGHT 
Image: BLACKSMITH WITH 2 HAMMERS & ANVIL ATOP NAMEPLATE WITH HOPS BREAKS OCTAGON,CONCAVE-SIDE 
Lodgement Date: 14-DEC-2006 
Sealing Due: 05-JAN-2008 
Date of Acceptance: 19-JUN-2007 
Acceptance Advertised: 05-JUL-2007 
Class/es: 32 
Status: Accepted 
Kind: n/a 
Type of Mark: Composite 
Examiner: Louise TUOHY 

Owner/s: Liquorland (Australia) Pty Ltd 
ACN: 007512414 
800 Toorak Road 
TOORONGA,3146,VIC 
AUSTRALIA 



Address for Service: Coles Group Limited 
Attention: Jenny Baker 
Level 3 Module 8 
800 Toorak Road 
Tooronga 
3146,VIC


----------



## captian black beer

bigh said:


> So while I'm complaining about the taste (or lack thereof), at least at the end of it I get a couple of dozen empty 375ml brown crown-seal bottles (not the annoying 330ml bastards) with cheap labels that come off easily. Is it wrong to be more excited about the bottle, than the beer it contains??



No there's nothing wrong with that I do it all the time, infact the price you pay for H&T is almost a good price for the bottles. particularly when they come full of liquid fertiliser for the garden...


----------

