# Kriek Clone?



## jgriffin (17/9/04)

Anybody got a recipe of a beer that resembles Kriek, or any other fruit lambics?

I'm quite taken with the Kriek after a session at the belgian beer cafe, and at $9 a bottle i reckon it's worth a shot and the long wait.


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## Curry (26/3/05)

Just bringing this topic back to the top.

Ideas? Anyone?


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## BJCP Education Director (26/3/05)

I just started my first lambic last weekend. All my advice came from a buddy of mine, Steve Piatz. His lambics are the closest home brews I have ever seen to the originals. The recipes are extremely simple. He is an all grain brewer but does all his lambics with extract b/c he says he cant see a difference.

The most important thing is to has a good lambic culture, Roselare by Wyeast is very good or the dreges from a bottle of Cantillon, Boon, etc etc. He makes all lambics as 'straight lambic' then adds fruit to them after a few years, yes I said years . Here is his recipe:

5 gallons
~2kg pale malt extract
~2kg wheat malt extract
2oz hop - any kind, just old ones. Put some hops in a paper bag and let them sit a few month until they smell like nothing.

Boil for 60 min w/ the hops added at beginning. No need bother chilling, let the wort cool over night and pitch into a plastic bucket. Pick the lambic yeast and then wait...years!!!

As for the raspberries, add to taste and let sit a few months and do it again. The fruit seems to just disappear. 


If you cant get your hands on a lambic strain let me know and I can ship you a 50ml tube of slurry I can collect.

Any other questions I can send you his way.


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## kook (27/3/05)

I have some flowers aging back home that I intend to use for plambic (pseudo lambic) brewing.

The grist outlined above is pretty standard. Normally just 50/50 wheat/pale.

I intended to use the WYeast culture too, as you can get it back home.

Most "standard" Kriek and Framboise are a mixture of either 1 or 2 year old lambic, with fresh fruit.

Basically, leave it in "secondary" for a year, then add a kg or so of (raw, fresh) fruit. Leave it again until fermented out, then bottle. You then need to age the bottles for another 1-2 years! You'll find they end up with a nice light carbonation after this long, as any left over frutose gets fermented out.

Lambic (in general) is fast becoming my favourite style of beer. I love Gueuze, and am constantly seeking out new ones to try.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (27/3/05)

kook said:


> Lambic (in general) is fast becoming my favourite style of beer. I love Gueuze, and am constantly seeking out new ones to try.
> [post="50943"][/post]​



Kook, what are some of the better known Gueuze beers?

I tried the Timmermanns yesterday at the Oostende and found the sourness hard to overcome, certainly a style that might take a bit of getting used too for my tastes anyway.

C&B
TDA


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## Sean (27/3/05)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> kook said:
> 
> 
> > Lambic (in general) is fast becoming my favourite style of beer. I love Gueuze, and am constantly seeking out new ones to try.
> ...


If you found the sourness in Timmermans hard to get over, wait till you try an authentic example like Cantillon or Drie Fontainen. 'Real' lambic is possibly the most acquired taste in the world (but worth acquiring) - incredibly sour and incredibly dry. Mind you, getting any of the decent stuff on this side of the world is not going to be easy.


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## Curry (27/3/05)

Anyone up for a quick delivery run to Belgium? :lol:


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## nonicman (27/3/05)

Will be there in September for the Brussels beer festival


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## Jovial_Monk (27/3/05)

You could make a Flemish Brown beer, then add say 4kg sour red pie cherries in secondary and leave in there for a few months. Wee Stu has my Belgian Book (IIRC) and can post the recipe from it.

Jovial Monk


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## beersom (27/3/05)

Jovial_Monk said:


> You could make a Flemish Brown beer, then add say 4kg sour red pie cherries in secondary and leave in there for a few months. Wee Stu has my Belgian Book (IIRC) and can post the recipe from it.
> 
> Jovial Monk
> [post="51034"][/post]​


 you could... but it won't be what he wants. 

If he tasted it at the Belgian Beer cafe it is likely to be either Bellevue Kriek or Timmermans Kriek, both of which are true lambic beers. (although their ability to represent the style is questionable)

I play with lambics (or as Kook rightly points out pLambics) a bit and have picked up a couple of things along the way,

Minimum...... yes minimum, time is 9 months. Leaving it longer helps however we are not doing it by spontaneous fermentation in the Senne valley so we are not dependent on seasonal yeast/bacteria changes and habits. (part of the reason real lambics take so long is that different micro-flora infect and/or become active at different stages. cask transfer etc) However you still need time for some of the lil citters to go though their full process.

My basic recipe is similar to what everyone else has said, pilsner and wheat malt. Although I add a very small amount of unmalted wheat as well.
Hopwise... I hop to what would amount to 20 IBU but the hops are aged stock and so contribute very little percieved bitterness and no flavour or aroma.

I initially pitch an ale yeast of french/belgian descent and allow this to go through a "primary" fermentation, before transferring to a secondary vessel with the fruit and pitching the wyeast lambic blend and a small amount of oak chips. The reasoning for this is that you want the beer to finish quite dry so this allows the _sac_. strain a slight head start over the other yeast and bacteria strains.... they can still have a big effect and work quite comfortably in harsher conditions.
The Oak chips are there for two reasons... 1. (least important) to impart a slight flavour. ....2. _Brett_ yeast strains do well when in contact with wood as it apparently feeds on some of the cellulose contained in it to repair itself.

I re - inoculate my bottles with fresh yeast. ....and don't worry if you see a white ring on the surface of your bottled lambic beer. This is called the _Mother_ and is perfectly O.K. , it normally sinks once the beer has been chilled.

Or you could just make a wheat beer with a neutral flavoured yeast and add cherries. .... But it won't be quite the same.
have fun.


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## Jovial_Monk (27/3/05)

No not quite the same, just quicker 

JM


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## beersom (27/3/05)

Jovial_Monk said:


> No not quite the same, just quicker
> 
> JM
> [post="51114"][/post]​


 

........ true.


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## BJCP Education Director (28/3/05)

The problem with starting with an ale yeast and then pitching the lambic culture is that a lot of the bugs in the lambic culture have a very low alcohol tolerance. I did this the first time I made an Oud Bruin. I left it to age 9 months and when it was done it wasnt that sour at all. I made the same recipe again and just pitched the lambic buds from the start and it was a lot more sour after 4 months than the other one was after the 9. Its still in the carboy and Im getting ansy to keg it!! 

Side note - If you are thinking, "what about the alcohol made by the yeast? wont that kill the other bugs?. Answer - yes but not until the alcohol % gets up higher. When the bugs start with wort w/ no alcohol and it builds up little by little the bugs can stand it. If you dump them right in to the alcoholic wort then they wont do so well.


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## kook (28/3/05)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Kook, what are some of the better known Gueuze beers?
> 
> I tried the Timmermanns yesterday at the Oostende and found the sourness hard to overcome, certainly a style that might take a bit of getting used too for my tastes anyway.
> 
> ...



Better known brewers / blenders producing Gueuze: 

Lindemans, Boon, Timmermans, Mort Subite and Belle-Vue.

My Favourite brewers / blenders (In no particular order): Drie Fontaine, Hanssens, Oude Beersel, Cantillon and Girardin.

It is definately a style that takes getting used to, but I really love it. Theres nothing quite more refreshing in my opinion. I wasn't so shocked with my first gueuze, as I'd worked my way into it. Try drinking some easier drinking flemish sour ales, or lighter kriek and framboise (Belle-Vue, Timmermans, Lindemans etc) first. Before you know it you'll be addicted 



nonicman said:


> Will be there in September for the Brussels beer festival



Any confirmed dates for this ? Could you send me some details by pm?  I'm interested in attending if I can! I have to attend a wedding back home later in the month though.


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## Jovial_Monk (28/3/05)

Hmmmm I thought the Lambic brewers started with a ale yeast and all the other stuff happened in storage?

I was sorta considering brewing a pLambic, then read the Lambic book from the Classic Beer Style series. Too bloody complicated!

JM


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## beersom (28/3/05)

Jovial_Monk said:


> Hmmmm I thought the Lambic brewers started with a ale yeast and all the other stuff happened in storage?
> 
> JM
> [post="51239"][/post]​



Nah. no yeast is pitched in a true lambic, most of the yeast and bacteria comes from time spent in a cool ship post boil. Some extra infection is picked up as time progresses through further airborne contamination as well as cultures living in transfer and storage vessels.

As I said earlier I start with an ale yeast before pitching a blended culture, the alcohol content at this point is still small (2-3%) and I have never had a problem with the beer not being sour enough. In a true lambic these cultures will become active or infect at different stages and I have found them to be relatively hardy. 

A good way to make a pLambic is to get cultures of the various micro-organisms and add them at their appropriate incubation stages. (infomation regarding the micro -biology of lambic breweries is easily availlable). However this takes even more work and leads to the possibility of leaving out some species that may be present in the blend.

Remember it is not just sourness that you are chasing in a Lambic or pLambic. Sourness is easy to achieve and can be a bit one- dimensional. The characters of all the micro organisms is what makes this style special.

If you try an Orval you can get an idea of the charecter provided by _Brett_ strain yeasts.
And a Rodenbach Grand Cru will give you a taste of _L.bacilli_

although these are but three organisms in a style that contains many more....


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