# Wheat Beer Recipe



## johnno

I want to make a wheat beer in a couple of weekends and am not sure about how to go about it.
Being a lazy sod I cant be bothered reseraching too much as I cant seem to surf further that AHB a lot of the time.

I have the Wyeast 3333 yeast and thats about it.
I was thinking about 50% malted wheat and 50% Pils malt along with some rice hulls and some specialty malt?

I understand this is not the correct yeast for a Hoegarden style beer. Is this correct or can I still make something along those lines with this yeast.

Please help a lazy bugger like me with suggestions.

johnno


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## n00ch

Thinking about doing a wheat beer this weekend actually. Stumbled across this topic that gave me a few ideas - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...8&hl=ag%20wheat


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## Darren

Johnno,
Go with what you've got. Hop to about 20 IBU or so and Bobs your uncle.
3333 is a good wheat yeast.
cheers
Darren


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## johnno

Actually i was reading the thread n00ch linked to and found this post by jayse very interesting regarding a step mash.



> MAH,
> 30 mins each step.
> It was'nt a wheat beer though, it was a APA but all in all I can't really say if it made any difference.
> The procedure was.
> 40c = 12 litres of 45c water rest for 30 mins.
> 60c = 6 litres of 99c water rest for 30 mins
> 70c = 7 litres of 99c water rest for 30 mins
> 78c = 10 litres of 99c water then rest awile and recycle.
> 
> At each step i mixed it up very well and from memory iam pretty sure i hit all temps i was after. I calculated for a final mash volume of 38 litres which minus the volume of the grain come to the exact boil start volume of 32 litres.
> 
> Lately all my brew have been no sparge brews ie just top the tun up to 38 litres volume with 99c water at the end for a mash out temp of 78c in a 5 kg mash.
> With this method iam still getting 75% effiency.
> 
> Cheers Jayse



Would Hallertau be ok for this?


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## Darren

Not a problem with Hallertau. Any low alpha german hop would be ok.
Don't worry about the step mash unless you really want to do it. It will add hours and agony to your brew day (unless you have Herms/Rims).
Ferment under 20 degree if you want a clean beer, above twenty if you want wheat beer flavours (cloves, phenols, maybe banana)
cheers
Darren


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## Ross

johnno,

Just kegged this one - not my favourite style, but fermented between 21 & 22c for banana/clove flavours - has worked a treat. I actually dilluted it a bit to 4% Alc.

Type: All Grain
Date: 26/10/2005 
Batch Size: 26.01 L
Brewer: Ross 
Boil Size: 37.38 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 52.8 % 
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 SRM) Grain 37.7 % 
0.50 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM) Grain 9.4 % 
39.00 gm Hallertauer [3.20%] (80 min) Hops 13.5 IBU 
13.00 gm Hallertauer [3.00%] (15 min) Hops 2.0 IBU 
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 % 
Bitterness: 15.5 IBU Calories: 382 cal/l 
Est Color: 3.9 SRM Color: Color
Mashed at 65c 90 mins.


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## n00ch

The step mash kind in those recipes kind of scared me away from them at this stage. I think i might do something along the lines of Ross's recipe. A bit more basic and what i'm after.


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## Justin

I did this Hefeweizen two weeks back Johnno, and have had a couple of glasses over the past two nights. A very nice drop, with some good balanced clove and banana flavours over a good malt profile-especially given my ferment temp (batteries flat in the thermostat for the first three days).

Hefeweizen
OG 1054
54.7% JW Wheat malt
40.8% Hoepfner Vienna
4.4% Hoepfner Carapils

19.7 IBU's with Hallertau, in boil 60mins

Mash was 63/64C for 30mins, then 72C for 30mins
Fermented with Wyeast 3638 Bavarian Wheat at between 15C and 20C.

If you only have Pils, no Vienna this is the recipe I took the above from. I was after something with a little more malty taste above and it's nice but the recipe below is a good one as well. I guess a pretty standard recipe.

Hefeweizen II
OG 1053
60% JW Wheat malt
35% Hoepfner Pils
5% Hoepfner Carapils

18.6IBU Saaz, 60mins boil.

Same mash profile as above.

Hope it give some more ideas.

Cheers, Justin


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## Tseay

The following partial mash recipe picked up first in state (NSW) and missed out on a place by one point in the Nationals. The following document was prepared to go with its entry into a comp in the US.

Hefe Weizen Recipe Partial Mash 20litres



Apologies- My brewing notes are not complete as this was my first HF and was not expecting the result I got.

Water Treatment: As Sydney water is quite soft , my water treatment was limited to adding a quarter of a Camden tablet to 25l of brew water 24 hours prior to use. This is to eliminate chlorine and chloramines in the water supply. In addition I used a teaspoon of calcium sulphate in the mash to reduce pH slightly.

Boiling Time: Total boiling time was 75 minutes.

Specific Gravities: OG was 1050, FG was 1013. 

Yeast; Liquid White Labs WLP 300 hefeweizen yeast, using a 2 litre starter. 

Carbonation: Bottle carbonated using Dry Malt Extract Bulk Primed. Aiming for 4 Co2 Volume.

Fermentation: Primary for 10 days in plastic at around 22C, Secondary for 7 days in Plastic, similar temperature. Brew start date 29/07/05.


Fermentables:

Grain: Export Pilsner Malt 1 Kg
Wheat Malt 1 Kg

Malt Extract: Morgans Wheat malt Extract: 2.5kg
Dry Light malt extract: 200g.

Hops:

Bittering: 30g of Perle ( 6%) 60 minutes
Flavour/ Aroma	15g of Hersbruker( 4% - will confirm) 5 minutes

Finings: Irish Moss teaspoon 15 minutes before flame out.


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## Snow

Johnno,

your grain bill and yeast will work ok. Hop to 18-20 IBUs with a german noble hop (aim for a .35 BU:GU). Drop the rice hulls, as only 50% wheat malt won't give you a stuck sparge. The clove and banana flavours are quite dependant on the yeast, but generally, you will get more clove flavours if you ferment below 20, but underpitch your yeast slurry a little. At 20c you should get balanced banana flavours. I just had a quick look at Daniel's Designing Great Beers and he says 18-20c is the ideal temp range to aim for.

Good luck and let us all know how you go!

Cheers - Snow.


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## Lindsay Dive

I have had a great deal of success (with much appreciated advice from Wes Smith) using the following grain bill for 25 litres;

Pilsner Malt 2.4 kg.
Wheat Malt 1.4 kg.
Torrefied Wheat 1kg.
Carahell Malt .250grams.

I doubled this grain bill and made 50 litres. I used the Whitelabs WLP300 and the WLP380 yeasts. I split the brew and everybody that tasted the beers agreed that the WLP300 was the yeast of their choice, however, there was not much in it. The WLP300 tended to impart slightly more banana tones.
I notice that the Wyeasts equivalent for the WLP380 is the 3333 so I reckon you will be spot on the money. I kept the ferment at 22 degrees!
I used Hallertauer for a total of 19 IBUs.
Go for it!
Oh, nearly forgot, single infusion mash at 66 degrees.


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## johnno

Snow said:


> Johnno,
> 
> Hop to 18-20 IBUs with a german noble hop (aim for a .35 BU:GU). Drop the rice hulls, as only 50% wheat malt won't give you a stuck sparge.
> Cheers - Snow.
> [post="89551"][/post]​


Snow,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have the Daniels book but can not work out the BU:GU ratios. (I kept failing maths till I got kicked out of school h34r: ) I know they have something to do with hops and bittering. I'm thinking about 20 IBU's.
As for the rice hulls. Do they impart any flavour.
I really want to use them as i have had a stuck sparge in the past and do not want to get one again.

Thanks to everybody else as well for the great help. 
I may ferment at around 18 to get a crisper style.

johnno


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## colinw

I have but one bottle left of this lovely weizen - the best I've made so far.

For 22 litres at my normal 70%ish efficiency:

2kg Joe White Export Pilsner malt
2.5kg Weyermann Wheat malt
250g Weyermann Dark Munich malt
200g Weyermann CaraHell
50g Weyermann CaraAroma

Hybrid Step Infusion / Single Decoction mash:

Ferulic Acid Rest at 44C for 30 minutes.
(9 litres of water at 52C --> 1.8 litre/kg ratio)

Raise to saccharification rest, 25 minutes at 64C
(6 litres of boiling water --> 3 litre/kg ratio)

40% decoction to raise to 72C for 30 minutes
(Decoction: 10 minutes at 72C, then 15 minute boil)

Boil: 90 minutes
- 20g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 4.6%AA @ 60 minutes
- 5g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 4.6%AA @ 30 minutes
- 5g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 4.6%AA @ 15 minutes
(Later additions are non-traditional but give a subtle spicy
hops flavour & aroma which I think go well in the style).

Wyeast 3638 "Bavarian Wheat". Pitched cool (15C) and
allowed to slowly build to krausen at 18C

OG = 1.050, FG = 1.011, 14 IBUs, 6 SRM

The 3638 gave a mild but complex flavour with banana, clove and bubblegum. Of the wheat yeasts I've used, it is my favourite by far.

cheers,
Colin


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## johnno

I will also be doing a single infusion.
Not game enough to take on a multi step yet.

johnno


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## colinw

You can make a perfectly good wheat with single infusion, all of my previous ones were.

But, having tried the decoction for my most recent weizen, I must say that I do prefer the malty but dry character of a decocted weizen. Its a lot of messing around 'though, so weizen is prbably the only style where I will bother with a complex mash schedule. The ferulic acid rest had a profound effect on the amount and quality of clove character, which is a flavour I desire in my German wheats.


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## Justin

Johnno, look up this link to explain and calculate BU:GU ratio

http://beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html

There's not too much to it.

Cheers and have fun. Easy style to brew.

JD


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## Snow

Johnno, BU:GU ratio is simply your target Bitterness in IBUs divided by the target gravity. So if you're going for a 1.050 weizen, then 17-18 IBUs will give you 0.34-0.36 BU:GU ratio - perfect for a weizen!

Rice hulls don't impart flavour. I just thought that they would be a waste of time, given only 50% wheat malt. If it was raw wheat, I'd say include them. But if it's for your peace of mind, then go for it!

Cheers - Snow


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## warrenlw63

Johnno.

I've got to agree with what Colin said. You can make a perfectly good Weizien with a single temp rest. However it seems to be the main style that benefits from a step/decoction mash. Just seems to add that "something" to the finished beer. :beerbang: 

If you go single infusion I'd add a small amount of Munich or Melanoidin Malt just to maybe emulate that character a little.

I must confess it's a style I've done a few times but still haven't captured that wow factor a lot of the better Weizens posess.

Warren -


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## Justin

All fair comments.

Interesting you say that too Warren, that's part of the reason I used Vienna in my last hefeweizen-to give it that extra bit of something without going to the trouble of decocting. I love Vienna malt too so thought I'd try it in the Hefe. Hmmm. 

My mash schedule was to give something high in the fermentable side, lending the crispness side of it-with out getting into proper step mashing and the 72C was just to finish off the conversion quickly and completely. 

I do agree with nailing the style. Easy to brew style, but a bit more challenging to get a really good one. Hard to stuff up I guess is what I'm saying. Let the yeast go at a high temp and you'll end up with a wild one  Can you say "I love lolly banana's in my beer"

Cheers, Justin


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## johnno

Thanks for all the help everybody.
I must admit I am not a big fan of the style so I will just go ahead with a single infusion.
As long as it is tart. That is what I am looking for.

cheers
johnno


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## Ross

johnno said:


> Thanks for all the help everybody.
> I must admit I am not a big fan of the style so I will just go ahead with a single infusion.
> As long as it is tart. That is what I am looking for.
> 
> cheers
> johnno
> [post="89639"][/post]​



Johhno, the one I made is certainly tart & has had the munich added, as rightly pointed out by Warren, to compensate for the single infusion mash - Not being a great fan of the style, like yourself, I went the easy route...


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## johnno

Was going to make a wheat beer this weekend.

Now i have strict orders from the physio that I am not allowed to lift anything or even bend, just lay down and rest due to a very bad back.

All he had to do was mention back operation if you are not careful and that really made me stop and think.

Apparently my condition is getting better but he still cant tell me when I will be able to lift again.

In the meantime I will just hope its sooner rather than later.

johnno


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## RobW

Hope you get back on the mash paddle soon Johnno.
Crook backs are the pits.


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## sinkas

Jonno, what is wrong with your back? What is the physio doing to help it, etc, I would like to help.


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## warrenlw63

Johnno.

Maybe second Mrs. Johnno to brewhouse lifting duties? :unsure: That said I'm pretty certain I'd know what Mrs. Warren would say given the same situation. h34r: :lol: 

Warren -


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## johnno

sinkas said:


> Jonno, what is wrong with your back? What is the physio doing to help it, etc, I would like to help.
> [post="90985"][/post]​






warrenlw63 said:


> Johnno.
> 
> Maybe second Mrs. Johnno to brewhouse lifting duties? :unsure: That said I'm pretty certain I'd know what Mrs. Warren would say given the same situation. h34r: :lol:
> 
> Warren -
> [post="90987"][/post]​




Sinkas 
thanks for the offer. But I think you are a bit far away. :lol: 

Waren,
at a guess Mrs johnno's rolling pin is lined with some sort of metal and weigh's a real lot. I will have to weigh it up some day.

johnno


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## johnno

Now that I have my back brace and am allowed to "do stuff" like actually sit down I may sneak this brew in on Saturday arvo.

Still havent put a recipe together but will get a starter going later today.

johnno


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## Samwise Gamgee

After reading through people's variations of Wheat Beer recipes, what are peoples thoughts in regards to using ale malt in place of pils?

This should generally add a bit more body and maybe take away from the quaffingness (is that a word?) of the beer? :huh: 

What effect could I expect?

Cheers


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## Doc

I've used JW Trad Ale in Wheat beers with great results.
For even better results my wheat beers with Rye malt have been exceptional.

Beers,
Doc


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## Screwtop

Rye Malt in a Wheatie, think I feel a recipe coming on.


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## Doc

Screwtop,

48 % Pils (Or Ale)
28 % TF Pale Rye
24 % Wheat

Tettnanger to about 36 IBU and you are in business.

Beers,
Doc


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## Screwtop

Doc said:


> Screwtop,
> 
> 48 % Pils (Or Ale)
> 28 % TF Pale Rye
> 24 % Wheat
> 
> Tettnanger to about 36 IBU and you are in business.
> 
> Beers,
> Doc
> [post="93085"][/post]​




Thanks! Wheat malted or grain, 3638 OK


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## Screwtop

Thats 100g of Tettnung, you sure?


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## johnno

Here is my exciting recipe for my first AG wheat beer.

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.00 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 EBC) Adjunct 23.5 % 
3.50 kg Powells Wheat (Powells Malts) (2.0 EBC) Grain 41.2 % 
3.00 kg Powells Pilsner (Powells Malts) (3.0 EBC) Grain 35.3 % 
56.00 gm Hallertauer [2.50%] (60 min) Hops 13.0 IBU 
28.00 gm Hallertauer [2.50%] (30 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
1 Pkgs German Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3333) [Starter 1250 ml] Yeast-Wheat 

Is that too much rice hulls?

I have not used them before so I dont know how much to use.

Suggestions about anything welcome.

johnno


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## johnno

Picked up my grain for tomorrow's wheat beer.
Cut back on the rice hulls to 1.25 kg.

It will be a good day for firsts.

First time making an AG wheat.
Fisrt time using a pump.
First time using a counterflow chiller. (Thanks very much to gout for lending me his IC for most of the year).
First time using a refractometer.

And I pick up a new fermetation fridge first thing in the morning which i scored for free.
Hope all goes well. hehe.

johnno


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## Ross

Good luck Johhno


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## warrenlw63

Johnno.

2kg of rice hulls is waaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much. :lol: That should see you through at least half a dozen brews.

Best way I found to use them in a 40 litre batch containing roughly 8kg of grain was to measure the hulls out in a 1 litre plastic jug. What I did was scoop out 2 jugs of rice hulls and just stir them in when mashing out. :beerbang: Yep, they weighed a heck of a lot less than 2kg.

Let us know how the Hefe fares. :beer: 

Warren -


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## johnno

Warren
I was just going to chuck the hulls in with the mash. Is this OK or are you supposed to used them at mash out?

Johnno


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## warrenlw63

Don't think it would really matter Johnno. Just chuck your two measuring jugfulls in when you start the mash. Doubt it would make any real difference. :beerbang: 

Good luck with it.  If it still sticks a bit don't be afraid to rake the surface of the mash with a knife. Just get a bread-knife and carefully cut across the surface of the mash in a criss-cross pattern to free it up a bit if it gets gluey as some wheats can.

Don't stress too much if the runoff gets fairly cloudy. Wheats are going to do this regardless and some finished haze is desirable.  

Warren -


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## Doc

Screwtop said:


> Thanks! Wheat malted or grain, 3638 OK
> [post="93102"][/post]​



Malted wheat.



Screwtop said:


> Thats 100g of Tettnung, you sure?
> [post="93114"][/post]​



Two additions. 3/4 at 60 mins and the last 1/4 at 15 mins.
So for my brews 40 litres using Tettnanger pellets @ 5.5% 76gr 60 mins 22 gr 15 mins.



johnno said:


> Here is my exciting recipe for my first AG wheat beer.
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 2.00 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 EBC) Adjunct 23.5 %
> 3.50 kg Powells Wheat (Powells Malts) (2.0 EBC) Grain 41.2 %
> 3.00 kg Powells Pilsner (Powells Malts) (3.0 EBC) Grain 35.3 %
> 56.00 gm Hallertauer [2.50%] (60 min) Hops 13.0 IBU
> 28.00 gm Hallertauer [2.50%] (30 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
> 1 Pkgs German Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3333) [Starter 1250 ml] Yeast-Wheat
> 
> Is that too much rice hulls?
> 
> I have not used them before so I dont know how much to use.
> 
> Suggestions about anything welcome.
> 
> johnno
> [post="93120"][/post]​



Awesome Johnno. Will be an exciting brewday indeed.
Best of luck.

Beers,
Doc


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## sosman

johnno said:


> Warren
> I was just going to chuck the hulls in with the mash. Is this OK or are you supposed to used them at mash out?
> [post="93342"][/post]​


Johnno, most I ever used was 300g. Last wheat beer I didn't bother with rice hulls and unless I start getting stuck sparges, I won't again.

I do a protein rest for 10 minutes.

I reckon rice hulls suck up a disproportionate amount of wort in the mashtun, you would need to adjust your efficiency down to accomodate that.


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## Ross

Can't say I've ever used rice hulls in a wheat & no stuck sparges todate - There again I don't have any rice hulls  ...

Cheers...


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## johnno

Thanks for the help everyone.
1.25 kilos of hulls does look like way too much.
Previous advice I got indicated about 15% of the grain bill should be about 15%.
I willtone it down to 400 grams as I am paranoid about stuck sparges.

johnno

PS lucky i just checked AHB before I started the brew. :beerbang:


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## johnno

Finished this one up at about 7 this evening.

Everything went ok albeit a bit longer.

It was cool using a refractometer.

It was cool using a march pump.

It was cool using a counterflow chiller..


My efficiences were not the best (actually quite bad) as has been normal for me this year  but that is something that will improve.

:beerbang: 

johnno


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## NRB

Looking forward to hearing about the tasting.


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## Mr Bond

I too am thinking about a weizen for summer drinkin. :chug: 
Reading this thread it seems a 50/50 split is not going to cause any stuck sparges.
Would 60% wheat,40% pils be pushing it too far without rice hulls or not?
I,ve done extract weizens in the past with wy 3068,but want to try another strain this time,any suggestions(wyeast)?

h34r: EDIT*

Just perused the wyeast site and like the sound of the 3868,more banana/bubble gum is what I'm after.


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## Kai

Brauluver said:


> I too am thinking about a weizen for summer drinkin. :chug:
> Reading this thread it seems a 50/50 split is not going to cause any stuck sparges.
> Would 60% wheat,40% pils be pushing it too far without rice hulls or not?



I would say that it depends on your system.


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## Tony

yeah it depends on your system.

I used to mash in an esky with a 3/8 copper tube pick up with half a doven 1/8 holed drilled in it and some SS nesh wraped arount that. It sparged well mastly but did get stuck easy if the mash was too fine.

I did a 60/40 wheat beer in it and it got stuck 4 times but a quick stir got it going again.

It ended up being the most brightly clear beer i ever made which blew my misconceptions abour 5% wheat malt creating protein haxe out of the water.

In my new keg mash ton t got a stuck sparge with bohemien pils malt that decintigrated finer that the JW and bairds MO base malts and had to chuck in a couple of liters of rice hulls to get it going again.

I would recomend going to 60% wheat malt and have been told that you only need rice hulls over 70% but i recon 1 liter of hulls in a 20 to 25 liter batch would be a good preventitive measure. 

I will sertanly use them in future, especialy in my plammed roggenbier, and didnt find they took up any extract in the pils i addad then to at all. I actually got about 84% efficiency with them. I aimed for 1.050 with 80% efficiency and got target volume at 1.055. I put it down to a free flowing bed.

cheers wheat beers :lol:

Edit: the Jazman spelling mistake award goes to.............. B)


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## Mr Bond

Kai said:


> Brauluver said:
> 
> 
> 
> I too am thinking about a weizen for summer drinkin. :chug:
> Reading this thread it seems a 50/50 split is not going to cause any stuck sparges.
> Would 60% wheat,40% pils be pushing it too far without rice hulls or not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that it depends on your system.
> [post="93686"][/post]​
Click to expand...


System is basic but effective,Its my version of the Grumpys lauter tun(sorry TDH I'm a tight arse).


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## Mr Bond

Well today was the day.after much deliberation and head scratching,I did a simple weizen.

60% pilsener(joe white)
40% wheat (joe white)

Organic (NZ) Hallertau to 20 IBU

Pitched with Wyeast 3333

Single [email protected] 66c,Batch sparge.

Keep it simple weizen,Plan to keep it @ 22c to get some banana overtones.


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## Jye

Nice one Brauluver, I just finished a wheat beer an hour ago and am now in the last hour of the boil of a Amber ale  

3.60 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 58.1 % 
2.50 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 40.3 % 
0.10 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 1.6 % 
30.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 15.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (10 min) Hops 5.8 IBU


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## wessmith

And I will be brewing a Weizen tomorrow:

7.0kg Hoepfner Pale Wheat
3.0kg JW Export Pils
0.5kg Hoepfner Carahell
0.1kg Weyermann Acidulated

Mashed at 40, 52, 65, 70 and 78

Yeast - White Labs WLP300 (W68 strain)

Hallertau 10.2% cones
Pacific Hallertau 6% pellets to a total IBU of 16

Open ferment at 17 to 18C

Wes


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## Mr Bond

Jye said:


> Nice one Brauluver, I just finished a wheat beer an hour ago and am now in the last hour of the boil of a Amber ale
> 
> 3.60 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 58.1 %
> 2.50 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 40.3 %
> 0.10 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 1.6 %
> 30.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 15.9 IBU
> 30.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (10 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
> [post="98155"][/post]​



Thanks for the encouragement,It's only my 4th AG,and I'm lovin' the flava control I've got over malt/mouthfeel via temps.....n .....stuff....

What yeast did ya pitch with?


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## Jye

> What yeast did ya pitch with?



Its going to be an American Wheat and I wanted to use 1056 but was unable to get any so I am using safale US56.


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## Mr Bond

Jye said:


> What yeast did ya pitch with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its going to be an American Wheat and I wanted to use 1056 but was unable to get any so I am using safale US56.
> [post="98172"][/post]​
Click to expand...


That yeast worked fine 4 me in an APA and an american wheat(Last extract ever),and used it in my 1st eva AG,the organic blonde with good results @ 16/18c.


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## Jye

> @ 16/18c.



I was think of brewing at 17c since I will be away over Christmas for 2 weeks and will also have an Amber Ale (1272 yeast) in the fridge with it... Will be a nice little present for me when I get back  :beerbang:


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## Ross

Just kegged my first attempt at a Belgian Wit this morning - Tasting surprisingly good for a grain to brain brew in 10 days :chug: 
Thanks AndrewQld for all your help. Recipe below for those interested:

Witbier 
Type: All Grain
Date: 18/01/2006 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Ross 
Boil Size: 33.80 L 
Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 39.2 % 
1.30 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 25.5 % 
1.00 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 19.6 % 
0.45 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 8.8 % 
0.35 kg Oats Quick (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.9 % 
40.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20%] (60 min) Hops 17.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Saaz [3.30%] (10 min) Hops 1.9 IBU 
25.00 gm Orange Peel, dried (Boil 7.0 min) Misc 
35.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 7.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) Yeast-Wheat 

Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.011 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 % 
Bitterness: 19.6 IBU Calories: 486 cal/l 
Est Color: 8.2 EBC Color:


----------



## Mr Bond

On ya Ross :excl: 

I'm just about to batch sparge my 3rd weizen.

50% wheat
40% pilsener
10% munich(light)

mashed @ 66c,single infusion(not ready to decoct yet,time factor..kids etc...)

organic NZ hallertau to 18/20 IBU's ,and will be pitched onto the yeast cake from the last weizen(dunkel). Wyeast 3333.

Planning another dunkel weizen to follow this b4 moving into APA territory. B)


----------



## Screwtop

Ross, did you crush the corriander seed? and, what type of dried orange peel did you use? In my last wheat I used mixed peel from the supermarket, picking out the orange bits and 15g of corriander seed from my garden. Ground the corriander in the mortar and pestle. Added both for the last 10 min of the boil from memory. Corriander balance is just right for me, but the citrus is overpowering to my palate. Wife and others love it, have been drying orange peel in the shed to use next time to see what the dif will be.


----------



## Ross

Jye said:


> Nice one Brauluver, I just finished a wheat beer an hour ago and am now in the last hour of the boil of a Amber ale
> 
> 3.60 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 58.1 %
> 2.50 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 40.3 %
> 0.10 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 1.6 %
> 30.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (60 min) Hops 15.9 IBU
> 30.00 gm Liberty [4.30%] (10 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
> [post="98155"][/post]​



Jye, kindly brought a keg of this over to our brew meet last night - a top drop :super: 

cheers Ross


----------



## Jye

Cheers Ross, Im just glade theres some left


----------



## pharmaboy

Ok a question for the wheat lovers.

Am going to do my first extract recipe, and been as well, wheat styles are my fav, thats where i'm going to start.

Kegging, so batch is 19 litres
Yeast 3068
2.25 kg muntons wheat spray malt LDME (target 4.0 -4.5% alcohol)
probably hallertauer 10 grams for 60, 10 grams for 10min. Amounts subject to change to achieve 12ibu in 19 litres (not sure of the alpha acids of whats available at my HBS)
brew temp 24c

2 questions
i see lots of wheat recipes will use straight LDME as well as wheat - just wondering what effect using all muntons ldme wheat will be?

I understand that a 60 minute boil extracts maximum bitterness, but why the 10 minute boil? (I've just put it in coz I think i should!)

I've gone for a low bitterness, given that I can use a kit for bittering if i wanted to go 17-20.

cheers & thx for any feedback


----------



## tdh

Hi Ross, Belgian Wit is made with unmalted wheat. Why did you decide to use malted and gelatinised wheats?

tdh


----------



## Ross

tdh said:


> Hi Ross, Belgian Wit is made with unmalted wheat. Why did you decide to use malted and gelatinised wheats?
> 
> tdh
> [post="105255"][/post]​



My understanding was that torrified wheat was an acceptable substitute for raw wheat?

Cheers Ross


----------



## Gulf Brewery

Ross said:


> My understanding was that torrified wheat was an acceptable substitute for raw wheat?
> 
> Cheers Ross
> [post="105258"][/post]​



Ross

You really need the raw wheat to get a dry tartness about it and also the cloudiness. The is a fair bit of info in the Belgian Ale book if you can get your hands on a copy.

Cheers
Pedro


----------



## Jye

Where does everyone get their dried orange peel, I have been looking at the supermarkets for the past couple of week but with no luck  

Do people dry their own?


----------



## Mr Bond

pharmaboy said:


> Ok a question for the wheat lovers.
> 
> Am going to do my first extract recipe, and been as well, wheat styles are my fav, thats where i'm going to start.
> 
> Kegging, so batch is 19 litres
> Yeast 3068
> 2.25 kg muntons wheat spray malt LDME (target 4.0 -4.5% alcohol)
> probably hallertauer 10 grams for 60, 10 grams for 10min. Amounts subject to change to achieve 12ibu in 19 litres (not sure of the alpha acids of whats available at my HBS)
> brew temp 24c
> 
> 2 questions
> i see lots of wheat recipes will use straight LDME as well as wheat - just wondering what effect using all muntons ldme wheat will be?
> 
> I understand that a 60 minute boil extracts maximum bitterness, but why the 10 minute boil? (I've just put it in coz I think i should!)
> 
> I've gone for a low bitterness, given that I can use a kit for bittering if i wanted to go 17-20.
> 
> cheers & thx for any feedback
> [post="105254"][/post]​



Using all muntons wheat dme is fine as it is a blend of around 60/40 pale and wheat any way.Not 100% wheat.

The 10 minute addition is jut for flava/character and will do bugger all for bitterness.

At least u are using the correct yeast to get the flava profile

Keep us posted on how it turns out.

PM the weizguy, he is the guru of extract wheats and very helpful if asked


----------



## Ross

Jye said:


> Where does everyone get their dried orange peel, I have been looking at the supermarkets for the past couple of week but with no luck
> 
> Do people dry their own?
> [post="105263"][/post]​



Jye,

The Chinese supermarket at Logan Hyperdome sells it, or I've got some here you can have...

cheers Ross


----------



## Screwtop

Jye said:


> Where does everyone get their dried orange peel, I have been looking at the supermarkets for the past couple of week but with no luck
> 
> Do people dry their own?
> [post="105263"][/post]​




Jye,

Posted a previous in this thread re orange peel and corriander. Tried supermarket style preserved peel and picked out the orange bits, used 50g, 10 min boil. I don't like the taste, find it tart and too much to the fore. Have seen a previous thread re use of chinese dried orange peel and bought some of this from a chinese grocers. Also been drying orange peel on a fridge rack in the shed for a couple of months. Think some use fresh grated orange peel. Am ready to attempt another and I would also like to see comments from those experienced in using orange in wheaties.

Beers


----------



## Weizguy

After the big rap from Brauluver, I thought that I should chime in.

I find the orange peel to be a minor flavour, and mostly there for bitterness (as the Belgians historically were held to ransom for hops and malt by the monopolist Germans, and topped up their grain bill with raw wheat, their hop flavour with coriander and their hop bitterness with bitter orange peel, which they could source cheaply).

Anyway, most of my flavour comes from the coriander and flavour Saaz.

For orange peel, have tested some Chinese orange peel given to me by Borret (thanks, buddy). Have also peeled fresh oranges with a potato peeler, to leave the pith behind, and added to the brew without pre-drying. I took some advice from Eric Young in an old Ausbeer magazine, and used Valencia orange, but have since used Navel on one occasion. I think that you will get more volatiles from the orange peel if you use it fresh. Am happy if someone wants to let me know why fresh peel is a bad thing, if U can give me a valid reason. I am no expert, and have relied on the sage advice of others which has worked 4 me, and am happy to advise of my experience. Hope this helps.

I may have mentioned this some time ago, but U can use orange flower (similar to rose water) from the health food shop. It may not be traditional, but it seems to help.

Re wheat malt extracts: As wheat beers have been my faves since early daze, I have some knowledge of brewing with LME and DME (malt and wheat malt). Liquid malt seems to leave less body in the beer, so if U prefer a drier wheat style, please use it. You can increase body and mouthfeel (residual sugars) by combining liquid and dry malt extracts. However, my best estimate of a true imported Weizen, made from extract has involved Muntons Wheat DME and Muntons light spraymalt (DME) at 60/40 ratio, and I have some trophies to support this. Only once did I try all wheat DME, and produced an infected beer. Sad to admit, but there's no point being dishonest. Maybe I'll try it again soon.

The most important thing is use the right yeast. Can't normally go wrong with W3068 (Weihenstephan Wheat). There may exceptions, so I allow for those. I concede that these beers may need to be fermented cool, say 16-20C, but can still be fermented at higher temps, if U have little temp control, as they don't produce a lot of fusels.

I'm off now to make a mid-strength extract wheat. Byeee...

Seth out


----------



## tangent

i've been using dried mandarine peel
dries fairly quickly and less pith
as far as I can tell, it'd dried to prevent spoilage during storage
fresh works fine
if you can, try a zester. easier than a peeler and you get long strands of peel with bigger surface area.


----------



## Jye

When using fresh do you need to add more to account for the water content that is lost through drying, say 50g of fresh in place of 30g dried?


----------



## Kai

Short answer, yes probably.


----------



## tangent

yeah you do need to increase a little although i reckon you get more oils with fresh.

at the end of my boil i usually pour a little off and have a taste, then add more finishing hops or spice etc. if needed.

edit- be careful though, too much orange can very quickly overpower your lovely yeast flavours


----------



## Trough Lolly

Apologies if I drift a little O/T here but I'm working on a partial mash wheat beer in Promash, after having found a tin of Brewiser Wheat Beer in the back of the cellar.

How much wheat is in this kit? Is there much or is it mainly cheap malt extract and a touch of wheat to aid head retention etc? I'm thinking of using an ale malt as the base with some Weyermann flaked wheat and carapils and a decent couple of slugs of Hallertau to hop it all.

Any info appreciated on the Brewiser wheat kit.

Cheers,
TL (Cleaning out the dusty shelves!)


----------



## Weizguy

TL,

I've brewed one of those kits (way back), and it may have been reformulated by now, but I believe it was mostly wheat LME and iso-hop. It may not contain the hop flavour U want, but U can fix that.

I reckon that a partial mash will help, but if the can is out of date, it may well taste odd, wrong, funny, off, metallic or bad.

Back to the oranges...I only peel one orange for each batch. I also have a zester that I forget each time a brew a wit, even though I would use it if I remembered.

Seth out


----------



## Darren

I agree with Tangent and Weizguy,
Just make your own. This time of year it will dry in a day (in the South anyhow). I have also tried the chinese shop peel. Looks like it is dusted in sugar (or mould) and has none of the flavour of freshly dried peel.

cheers
Darren


----------



## Trough Lolly

Cheers Seth - I'll check the useby date.

TL


----------



## AndrewQLD

Here is a pic of my Wit kegged two days ago and after 7 days of cold conditioning in a cube at 4c, as you can see it is plenty cloudy even though I use wheat malt and not wheat. And beleive me it is very dry and Tart. I know that purists will say that wheat malt is a no no, but it makes for an easier and faster brew day and IMHO I think the results are great  .




Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Ross

Darren said:


> I agree with Tangent and Weizguy,
> Just make your own. This time of year it will dry in a day (in the South anyhow). I have also tried the chinese shop peel. Looks like it is dusted in sugar (or mould) and has none of the flavour of freshly dried peel.
> 
> cheers
> Darren
> [post="105323"][/post]​



Sounds like you picked up some candied peel there Darren. 
No sign of dust on the peel I have & once rehyrated the aroma was gorgeous...

Guess I was lucky, or you were unlucky...

cheers Ross


----------



## pharmaboy

thx Brauluver, and Weizguy!

will go the ldme for a 800grams or so to make up the shortfall I have in wheat ldme, for about the 4% mark.

I like the prose you use weizguy for the difference between liquid and dry wheat, i use mmmmm nice beer versus mmmmm nicer beer- so now I know WHY I like it!

On the subject of orange, I just cracked open a lame attempt at belgian from a little over a year ago, which tasted distinctly of oranges, and would be better termed an orange ale than a wheat (safwheat pffft!). I used in that one the rind of 2 navel oranges in a 23liter batch - waaaaay to much - unless you want an orange beer, which was still nice btw! Use half a mandarine these days, and have used marmalade (2 tspns) with success (in a forbidden fruit recipe).

cheers & thx


----------



## Screwtop

Ross said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Tangent and Weizguy,
> Just make your own. This time of year it will dry in a day (in the South anyhow). I have also tried the chinese shop peel. Looks like it is dusted in sugar (or mould) and has none of the flavour of freshly dried peel.
> 
> cheers
> Darren
> [post="105323"][/post]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you picked up some candied peel there Darren.
> No sign of dust on the peel I have & once rehyrated the aroma was gorgeous...
> 
> Guess I was lucky, or you were unlucky...
> 
> cheers Ross
> [post="105335"][/post]​
Click to expand...


The dried orange peel that I bought from a chinese grocer was the same Ross, almost black, looks mouldy. Could be mistaken for dried mushroom. Candied peel or preserved peel is quite moist.


----------



## warrenlw63

Just to put a slightly different spin on this. A good substitute for raw or flaked wheat is to use some Bourghul (sometimes called Bulgar) which is basically steamed, cracked (yep pre-cooked) wheat and the key ingredient in Tabouli. Very trouble free to use in a single-infusion mash. I can usually get it @ $2 per kg from the local Middle Eastern spice shop.

Health section of the usual supermarkets seems to always stock it too for a little bit more. :beerbang: 

Probably not as authentic as raw wheat but certainly a lot easier to handle.  

As for the oranges. Like Weiz says they can almost be very much in the background flavour-wise. I usually find the zest of 1 or 2 limes to work nicely too. 

Warren -


----------



## Weizguy

Thanks Warren,

I know U mentioned it before on this forum, but I forgot about bourghul when I made mine and paid through the nose for Health Food store rolled wheat. Worked remarkably well in the mash, which was my first ag Wit (Hoegaarden clone recipe from Protz and Wheeler's Euro beer recipe book).

Seth out


----------



## warrenlw63

Yep, exactly the reason why I gave up on the flaked stuff Weiz.

Over the last 5 years or so it seems to be progressively harder to aquire and the cost dictates it too. To do 40 litres of Wit or a similar beer I'm looking at roughly 4kgs of the stuff (8 standard bags).

Bourghul just sits there in 50kg sacks at less than $2 a kg and is most likely fresher. Haven't done a Wit for some time. Saison was the last beer to incur Bourghul (25%) and it worked wonderfully. Defintely on the cards for my next Wit though. 

That said the benefits of raw wheat are apparent too. Tried a Wit generously donated by Borrett and the contribution of the raw wheat was superb and very authentic. :beerbang: 

Warren -


----------



## Ross

So does torrified wheat impart a different flavour to raw wheat & if so, what?

I had assumed, maybe wrongly, that it didn't...

cheers Ross


----------



## warrenlw63

Ross.

You'd have to expect a differing flavour contribution with torrified wheat because it's undergone some form of cooking process that's similar to breakfast cereal. IIRC it's steamed. Other than that the only way to compare the difference would be a side by side test with a similar beer using raw wheat.

Raw wheat is obviously that. Raw until it's gelatanized in the mash.

That said you'll get pretty good results with either. My experiences with torrifed wheat are that they'll float in the mash to some degree unless it's crushed with the grain. I've only ever used about 5% in the mash. Must admit I couldn't notice any flavour contributions from these amounts.

My only hesitation in using 4kgs of torrified wheat in the mash is the $5.50 per kg my LHBS charges for it. Purely economics.  

Warren -


----------



## Ross

warrenlw63 said:


> Ross.
> 
> You'd have to expect a differing flavour contribution with torrified wheat because it's undergone some form of cooking process that's similar to breakfast cereal. IIRC it's steamed. Other than that the only way to compare the difference would be a side by side test with a similar beer using raw wheat.
> 
> Raw wheat is obviously that. Raw until it's gelatanized in the mash.
> 
> That said you'll get pretty good results with either. My experiences with torrifed wheat are that they'll float in the mash to some degree unless it's crushed with the grain. I've only ever used about 5% in the mash. Must admit I couldn't notice any flavour contributions from these amounts.
> 
> My only hesitation in using 4kgs of torrified wheat in the mash is the $5.50 per kg my LHBS charges for it. Purely economics.
> 
> Warren -
> [post="105410"][/post]​



Arn't you supposed to boil the raw wheat first to get better extraction, or is this not the case? This is totally new territory for me, so keen for answers.
I get the fawcetts TW from my local hbs for the same price as my base grain, so fortunately the price is not an issue. I just crushed with all my other grain & had no problem with sparging - never had a need yet to use rice hulls  

cheers Ross


----------



## warrenlw63

I think you'd probably be hedging your bets by boiling first. However wheat starch gelatanizes at temps between 58 to 65c. A good crush of raw wheat would probably convert OK (only guessing here as I've never bothered doing it).

That said if I were to use raw wheat in a mash I'd at least consider a step mash with a protein rest and probably a higher than normal mashout temp to stop the whole thing going a bit sticky during the sparge. Belgian brewers (Lambic) who use the stuff generally employ something along the lines of a reverse decoction where the liquid portion of the mash is removed, boiled, added back etc.

Certainly makes a good argument for the pre-cooked stuff. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## AndrewQLD

Ross said:


> warrenlw63 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ross.
> 
> You'd have to expect a differing flavour contribution with torrified wheat because it's undergone some form of cooking process that's similar to breakfast cereal. IIRC it's steamed. Other than that the only way to compare the difference would be a side by side test with a similar beer using raw wheat.
> 
> Raw wheat is obviously that. Raw until it's gelatanized in the mash.
> 
> That said you'll get pretty good results with either. My experiences with torrifed wheat are that they'll float in the mash to some degree unless it's crushed with the grain. I've only ever used about 5% in the mash. Must admit I couldn't notice any flavour contributions from these amounts.
> 
> My only hesitation in using 4kgs of torrified wheat in the mash is the $5.50 per kg my LHBS charges for it. Purely economics.
> 
> Warren -
> [post="105410"][/post]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arn't you supposed to boil the raw wheat first to get better extraction, or is this not the case? This is totally new territory for me, so keen for answers.
> I get the fawcetts TW from my local hbs for the same price as my base grain, so fortunately the price is not an issue. I just crushed with all my other grain & had no problem with sparging - never had a need yet to use rice hulls
> 
> cheers Ross
> [post="105413"][/post]​
Click to expand...


Ross,
raw wheat gelatinises between 52c and 64c depending on variety so there is no need to preboil the grains, so long as it is crushed the gelatinization process can take from 10- 20 minutes and then the enzymes in you base malt will go to work and convert the starch to sugars. Oh and if you use wheat rice hulls help A LOT  

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Borret

My experience with raw wheat was that it posed me no real probs in the mash. I did mash in at 50 deg for a 35 min rest which enabled me to mash in without the serious glue factor as your under gel-point but certainly still quite viscous. Mash loosened up well in the 30min+ rest and then I proceeded as usual with a 66 deg (IIRC) rest for full conversion. I did use a good litre or so of rice hulls so the sparge was a breeze.

However....... before mashing was another story. :angry: I vowed never to use raw wheat again after that crush.... however having sampled the end results it may have been worth it. It definately fits the desired malt/grain profile.  Anyway- The rubber bullet theory is definately true. A mill that grinds (ie flour mill)rather than squeezes (ie malt mill) is so much more suited to this stuff. It took three runs though my mill to get it near acceptable on reducing gap sizes and after the first run I baffled back the 8 inches of roller to about and inch either end in order to be able to even turn the crank. The final crush was still not fantastically fine due to the rubber factor and could have gone through again but I just went with it. My gravities ended up not too far under what was planned but the crush would account for that. I did run the raw wheat seperately so it didn't effect the crush on the pils malt and of course the minute oats went straight in the mash.

So my verdict (for what it's worth) is if you have the means or the patince to get past the milling with raw wheat it's definately worth your while. No precooking required but a good 50 deg rest and some rice hulls and your away.  

Brent


----------



## Ross

Gulf Brewery said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding was that torrified wheat was an acceptable substitute for raw wheat?
> 
> Cheers Ross
> [post="105258"][/post]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ross
> 
> You really need the raw wheat to get a dry tartness about it and also the cloudiness. The is a fair bit of info in the Belgian Ale book if you can get your hands on a copy.
> 
> Cheers
> Pedro
> [post="105260"][/post]​
Click to expand...


Pedro, 

I understand that, cheers - but that doesn't really answer my question that you highlighted. :blink: 

This quote from a Torriffied wheat supplier:
"Heated to pop much like partially exploded popped corn kernels, allowing more rapid hydration and the malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and proteins. Torrified wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian style White and Wit. Advantages over raw wheat are normal conversion time and higher yield."
Another description from one of the malsters, claims it retains & expands the original flavour of raw wheat... 

So other than cost, if it's a factor, is there a reason for not using TW over raw?....

cheers Ross


----------



## Borret

Ross said:


> Another description from one of the malsters, claims it retains & expands the original flavour of raw wheat...
> 
> So other than cost, if it's a factor, is there a reason for not using TW over raw?....
> 
> cheers Ross
> [post="105466"][/post]​



Ross- Other than the fact that the malsters are trying to sell you their product with statement like the above...... :unsure: 

One reason would be that 'if this is how the people who's beers we are trying to replicate do it '-then as a craft brewer why not just give it a go their way and see for yourself..... perhaps then you can make the decision on whether it's worth it from experience rather than speculation.  Isn't this hobby about a degree of experimentation anyway.

Don't knock it till you tried it  

Brent


----------



## Trent

Hey Guys
About to have a crack at my first wheat ever, a copy of Berpanapods Astrobier from the NSW xmas case, cause I really liked it. I havent been able to get my hands on flaked or torrefied wheat, so this Borghul sounds like it will save the day, I will head off the the supermarket tonight in search of it. Question, though, if I use Borghul, do I need to use rice hulls, or is that just for raw wheat. And what does IIRC mean? :blink: Never been able to work that out, though I am sure it is fairly self explanatory.
All the best
Trent


----------



## Borret

Trent said:


> Hey Guys
> About to have a crack at my first wheat ever, a copy of Berpanapods Astrobier from the NSW xmas case, cause I really liked it. I havent been able to get my hands on flaked or torrefied wheat, so this Borghul sounds like it will save the day, I will head off the the supermarket tonight in search of it. Question, though, if I use Borghul, do I need to use rice hulls, or is that just for raw wheat. And what does IIRC mean? :blink: Never been able to work that out, though I am sure it is fairly self explanatory.
> All the best
> Trent
> [post="105488"][/post]​



G'day Trent,

IIRC- if I recall correctly, If I remember correctly..

Bourgul is cracked wheat and you may be able to find it in teh healthy part of the supermarket. The rice hulls are always an option for high wheat beers. I don't recall berps recipe but wits are generally 45-50% raw wheat so you can just get away without them if you are carefull. They just make life a little easier..

Good luck with the wit.

Brent


----------



## Trent

Thanks for that Brent
And I just KNEW it would be fairly easy, but I never would have guessed that one in a million years!
All the best
Trent


----------



## Gulf Brewery

Ross said:


> Gulf Brewery said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ross said:
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding was that torrified wheat was an acceptable substitute for raw wheat?
> 
> Cheers Ross
> [post="105258"][/post]​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ross
> 
> You really need the raw wheat to get a dry tartness about it and also the cloudiness. The is a fair bit of info in the Belgian Ale book if you can get your hands on a copy.
> 
> Cheers
> Pedro
> [post="105260"][/post]​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pedro,
> 
> I understand that, cheers - but that doesn't really answer my question that you highlighted. :blink:
> 
> This quote from a Torriffied wheat supplier:
> "Heated to pop much like partially exploded popped corn kernels, allowing more rapid hydration and the malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and proteins. Torrified wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian style White and Wit. Advantages over raw wheat are normal conversion time and higher yield."
> Another description from one of the malsters, claims it retains & expands the original flavour of raw wheat...
> 
> So other than cost, if it's a factor, is there a reason for not using TW over raw?....
> 
> cheers Ross
> [post="105466"][/post]​
Click to expand...



Ross

Part of the process to get the cloudiness and profile of a wit is to chuck a handful or two of raw wheat into the kettle. Dunno if that would work with torrefied as the stuff that I have seen doesn't crack easily and floats on the top. 

As for the text you quoted, a quick google shows that as coming from Keystone Homebrew in the USA. Did you find anyone else saying to substitute torrified for raw? The place we normally see torrified wheat is for assisting head retention, especially in british beers.

Where did you source your torrefied wheat from? Do you know if it is manufactured in Oz?

Cheers
Pedro


----------



## Linz

Trent,

I get flaked wheat from the 'hippie' isle at my local Coles, and used that in my Wit. Any health food store worth a try should have/or get it the next day, by the 500gm bag and a heck of alot cheaper than the HBS. 
I run it thru the mill with all the other grains and mash away as norm...


----------



## Simon W

Trent said:


> And what does IIRC mean? :blink: Never been able to work that out, though I am sure it is fairly self explanatory.



Shameless plug, but Click here


----------



## Trent

Thanks for that Linz
I will head down to my coles or woolies tonight, they both have hippie sections.
And Simon W, thanks, not really a shameless plug, but saving me from myself in future! 
All the best
Trent


----------



## Ross

Gulf Brewery said:


> Ross
> 
> Part of the process to get the cloudiness and profile of a wit is to chuck a handful or two of raw wheat into the kettle. Dunno if that would work with torrefied as the stuff that I have seen doesn't crack easily and floats on the top.
> 
> As for the text you quoted, a quick google shows that as coming from Keystone Homebrew in the USA. Did you find anyone else saying to substitute torrified for raw? The place we normally see torrified wheat is for assisting head retention, especially in british beers.
> 
> Where did you source your torrefied wheat from? Do you know if it is manufactured in Oz?
> 
> Cheers
> Pedro
> [post="105494"][/post]​



Pedro,

Radical brewing says you can use it instead & here is the link which states it retains all the raw wheat flavour.. http://www.brewingtechniques.com/bmg/grain.html
The stuff I have is from Fawcetts UK. Used it as I didn't want to play around with stepped mashes on this occaision. I understand that raw wheat is probably how the Belgians do it, but from all my reading, this seemed a perfectly acceptable substitute & better than using just malted wheat (Though Andrewqld's brew with malted is excellent).
I've only raised the questions as TDH questioned my reasons for using it - I've asked him by pm what difference it makes, but all I got in reply was "Belgian Wit brewers use raw wheat".

Anyway, I made it that way & it tastes good, which I guess is what counts  ...

cheers Ross...


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## Darren

FWIW,
My wits with raw wheat in the mash have been the clearest beers I have ever made.

Easiest way to cruch raw wheat is to mix it with the barley and run them through the mill together. Cracks the wheat nicely.

cheers
Darren


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## Simon W

Darren said:


> Easiest way to cruch raw wheat is to mix it with the barley and run them through the mill together. Cracks the wheat nicely.



I was wondering about that, but coz I've not tried it yet, wasn't gonna say anything.
So it does work.
Thanks Darren.


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## tangent

totally with Darren on that one
the raw wheat is a pain because it's DAMN hard and you seem to need a closer crush
heaps easier mixed, especially for us poor hand cranked crushers
Burgul (spelling?) is great because it's already cracked perfectlyView attachment 5739

But it's been cracked how long ago?
Fresh is best i reckon but it's a damn handy 2nd place.
(In ADL Gaganis Bros have Burgul as well as View attachment 5740
 )
Great for Stouts and Porters.
Burgul is used for a great dish Kibbi, so Middle Eastern and maybe Greek shops.


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## warrenlw63

Gulf Brewery said:


> Part of the process to get the cloudiness and profile of a wit is to chuck a handful or two of raw wheat into the kettle. Dunno if that would work with torrefied as the stuff that I have seen doesn't crack easily and floats on the top.
> [post="105494"][/post]​



I've heard that a couple of tablespoons of wheat flour in the last 15 minutes of the boil will achieve a similar effect (haze in the finished beer) too. IIRC It was Jeff Renner in the US who suggested this. :unsure: 

Warren -


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## warrenlw63

BTW

Our middle Eastern grocer has Bourghul in 2 grades. Standard (pale) and wholemeal (dark brown).

I'm inclined to think that the dark stuff would be very interesting in a Stout or Robust Porter . I intend to try it when the weather gets a little warmer. :beerbang: 

Warren -


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## johnno

Since spring is coming and I liked very much the last wheaty I made I think it is time for another.

Hopefully a couple more weekends and I will be ok to brew again.

Need to make a wit as well. May stop off at G&G tomorrow for some yeast.

cheers
johnno


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## Weizguy

Don't wait 2 long between wheaties. U will hate yrself for it.

For spring, I recommend a weizen, or an American wheat as a lawnmower beer.

I need to start making weizen so I can have a keg of it throughout Summer, for visitors, of course.

And, of course, a Wit or two, using WLP410.
and maybe a honey wheat using US56.

There's enough suggestions for U for a while. When U get bored, start making fruit wheats. Mmmm, raspberry weizen, or Kiwifruit Yank wheat. I'm becoming emotionally erect.

Ask me (email or pm), I'm the (self-proclaimed) Weizguy! Testify. :beerbang: 

Seth out


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## johnno

Weizguy said:


> Don't wait 2 long between wheaties. U will hate yrself for it.
> 
> For spring, I recommend a weizen, or an American wheat as a lawnmower beer.
> 
> Testify. :beerbang:
> 
> Seth out



I testify!

What I once thought was very average I now know is very good.
(Weizen)

Hopefully soon I will be making it.

cheers
johnno


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