# Pluto Gun Problem.



## yardy (25/1/07)

Gday All,

Just noticed yesterday that after pouring, a steady stream of bubbles is running back to the QD.  
I've checked and tightened the hose clamps, also the problem is occuring on both Kegs so it's definitely the Gun that is playing up.
Halfway through a pour it will 'cough' (for want of a better word) like the keg is about to blow, (both Kegs are full btw).

cheers

yard


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## justsomeguy (25/1/07)

yardy said:


> Gday All,
> 
> Just noticed yesterday that after pouring, a steady stream of bubbles is running back to the QD.
> I've checked and tightened the hose clamps, also the problem is occuring on both Kegs so it's definitely the Gun that is playing up.
> Halfway through a pour it will 'cough' (for want of a better word) like the keg is about to blow, (both Kegs are full btw).




Possibly gunk in the lines or a seal inside the gun not sealing properly maybe.

gary


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## Ross (25/1/07)

yardy said:


> Gday All,
> 
> Just noticed yesterday that after pouring, a steady stream of bubbles is running back to the QD.
> I've checked and tightened the hose clamps, also the problem is occuring on both Kegs so it's definitely the Gun that is playing up.
> ...



Hey Yardie,

Not a faulty gun, if your gun was leaking, the beer would be dribbling out, it's under positive pressure, that's just CO2 coming out of solution in your lines.

cheers Ross...


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## sam (25/1/07)

To stop this from happening, you've got to keep the temp of the gun the same as the rest of the system (the beer). That means putting it in the fridge when not in use.

Hopefully that will stop the problem, cause it's a real shit.

sam


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## yardy (25/1/07)

Ross said:


> Hey Yardie,
> 
> Not a faulty gun, if your gun was leaking, the beer would be dribbling out, it's under positive pressure, that's just CO2 coming out of solution in your lines.
> 
> cheers Ross...



Oh ok, would that cause the 'coughing' whilst pouring ?

cheers


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## warrenlw63 (25/1/07)

Yardy

Should only happen to the warm beer in the line. Basically the beer "coughs" as colder beer comes from the keg it seems to equalise itself. Ross and Sam have pretty much put you in the picture.  

Warren -


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## yardy (25/1/07)

Ok, just poured a beer and it's getting worse, there's airlocks in the beer line that seem to be constant when pouring, that tells me that it's sucking air somewhere or am i wrong ?

yard


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## PostModern (25/1/07)

Is the pluto gun kept in the fridge with your kegs? How long is your beer line, what pressure is your reg at?


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## warrenlw63 (25/1/07)

In theory Yardy. OTOH if there was any air getting drawn in there'd most likely be leaks also.

Warren -


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## Ross (25/1/07)

yardy said:


> Ok, just poured a beer and it's getting worse, there's airlocks in the beer line that seem to be constant when pouring, that tells me that it's sucking air somewhere or am i wrong ?
> 
> yard



Not possible mate - Think about it, the line is under positive pressure (stick a pin through the line & it'll spurt everywhere). It's not air, just CO2 coming out of solution. Have you had your beer with the gas connected while you've been away? If so, at what pressure & at what temperature?

Cheers Ross


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## paul (25/1/07)

Ive had a similar problem before. Try upping your pouring pressure in the keg.

If the pressure in the keg is too low the gas comes back out of the beer and forms pockets in the line. By upping the pressure a little this gas stays disolved in the beer eliminating the problem.

If your using 5mm beer line have your line length 3.2 metres. Any shorter and your beer will pour too fast.

If this doesnt fix your problem have a read at 

http://www.micromatic.com/

This site has all the answers.


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## Asher (25/1/07)

Not quite true Ross. If the o-ring between the dip tube and keg is leaking. CO2 can leak from the headspace in the keg into the beerline.
Yardie I assume since it is happening on both kegs that this is probably not the problem... unless they were both not put back together correctly. Check the ball lock is screwed up tightly and the o-ring between the dip tube and keg is intact.
I'd say your beer is overcarbonated. After a pour some CO2 comes out of solution in the beer line due to pressure drop of the previous pour. This pocket of gas sits in waiting until you pour your next beer.... etc
Just my thoughts... Really need to know what your keg pressure is and length/type of line your using though

Asher fro now


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## Mr megalitre (25/1/07)

I had this problem and found that I had over pressurised the keg. Try burping the keg until the bubbles in the line stop forming at the pluto gun.


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## yardy (25/1/07)

Thanks for the replies, the Gun lives in the Fridge along with the kegs, I'd say the Beer Line is approx 1200mm in length, the Keg was force carbed about a month ago (I don't get home very often :angry: ), reg is 9 psi pouring pressure, just poured another, the Beer Line is hanging in a loop and within 30 seconds or so it had 2 airlocks about 150mm long, one at the Gun and the other at the QD.

I've had this setup for awhile and have been very pleased with how it's worked, never a problem until now.

yard


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## Ross (25/1/07)

Asher said:


> Not quite true Ross. If the o-ring between the dip tube and keg is leaking. CO2 can leak from the headspace in the keg into the beerline.
> 
> Asher fro now



Asher, that may well be true, but if you read Yardies first post he says they are forming & running back to the QD. Hence my comment, it can't be a leak...

cheers Ross


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## yardy (25/1/07)

yardy said:


> Thanks for the replies, the Gun lives in the Fridge along with the kegs, I'd say the Beer Line is approx 1200mm in length, the Keg was force carbed about a month ago (I don't get home very often :angry: ), reg is 9 psi pouring pressure, just poured another, the Beer Line is hanging in a loop and within 30 seconds or so it had 2 airlocks about 150mm long, one at the Gun and the other at the QD.
> 
> I've had this setup for awhile and have been very pleased with how it's worked, never a problem until now.
> 
> yard




BUMP.




Changed the QD, pulled the Pluto apart and cleaned it, no change. 
Not happy Jan.


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## devo (25/1/07)

not sure if this will help or relevent but your beer line for a pluto should be double the approx 120mm length.


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## warrenlw63 (25/1/07)

h34r: Think you're cursed Yardy. I used a Pluto for around 7 years before changing to taps this year. Can't say I really ever had a problem. Pluto's the most failsafe bit of kit you can get.  

Only other thing I can think of is there could possibly be an obstruction in your diptube or post/poppet valve? :unsure: 

Warren -


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## Coodgee (25/1/07)

my pluto gun shit itself recently actually. too much use


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## yardy (25/1/07)

devo said:


> not sure if this will help or relevent but your beer line for a pluto should be double the approx 120mm length.



So i should be looking to up the length of the Beer Line to about 2 1/2 metres ?



Warrenlw63,
You may well be right mate, only use the bloody thing 4 times a month !

Might be time to talk to Ross about a couple of Cellis B) 


Oh well.... Coopers Stubbies it is then :chug: 


Cheers for the advice guys.

yard


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## paul (25/1/07)

The reason that the co2 gas is coming out of dilution in the beer is that the pouring pressure is too low due to the beer line being too short. Think of a stubby of beer before you take the cap off. Theres no head on it. Once you open it it releases the pressure from the stubby and a small head forms on it. This is whats happening in the keg and is visible in the beer line.



A longer beer line on the pluto will allow you to keep the beer at a higher pressure which will keep the gas disolved in the beer.

For beer to stay carbonated it needs to be stored at about 12-13 psi.

Have a read of:

http://www.micromatic.com/

for all kegging questions.


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## yardy (25/1/07)

paul said:


> The reason that the co2 gas is coming out of dilution in the beer is that the pouring pressure is too low due to the beer line being too short. Think of a stubby of beer before you take the cap off. Theres no head on it. Once you open it it releases the pressure from the stubby and a small head forms on it. This is whats happening in the keg and is visible in the beer line.
> A longer beer line on the pluto will allow you to keep the beer at a higher pressure which will keep the gas disolved in the beer.
> 
> For beer to stay carbonated it needs to be stored at about 12-13 psi.
> ...




Thanks paul, I'll increase the length and see if that solves the problem, what I don't understand is why it's been perfect up until today.

cheers

yard


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## fixa (25/1/07)

Because thats when you want to really drink the stuff....


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## Wortgames (25/1/07)

yardy said:


> what I don't understand is why it's been perfect up until today.



Is it possible this beer has somehow been allowed to carbonate more than previous ones? Maybe it wasn't fully attenuated before you kegged it? Was there anyone who might have screwed with the reg in your absence?

Either way it looks like Devo is on the money; the pressure you are currently using is not enough to keep the beer at its current level of carbonation, so the gas is coming out of solution. It should stabilise over time - if it does, then you know that something has changed while you were away.

It could even be due to temperature - if the fridge was recently run colder than it currently is, (and your CO2 was left connected), the beer would have absorbed more gas - now that it has warmed it is coming back out of solution.

If your system was working for you before then I wouldn't blame the line straight away - although you may have just been 'getting away with it' before.


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## yardy (25/1/07)

Wortgames said:


> *Is it possible this beer has somehow been allowed to carbonate more than previous ones?*
> 
> *Maybe it wasn't fully attenuated before you kegged it? *
> 
> ...



Actually this is the only keg that i havn't force carbed, because I'm away so much i thought I'd give this one a go at carbing up over a week, not sure what the psi/kpa was now but it was whatever Ross recommended to me on another site.

All my brews spend at least 2 weeks, sometimes 3 in the fermenter.

maybe it's the Reg ?

cheers for the help

yard


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## Wortgames (25/1/07)

Are you serving at the same pressure you carbed at? If so, that's a balanced system and you really shouldn't have any grief.

Do you normally disconnect the gas after you force carb? If so, you may not actually be carbing to quite the same level that you've done with this one by leaving the gas on.

It's possible the reg is playing up but I reckon it's unlikely.

Have you got room to pour a bit faster? If so, try increasing the pressure a few PSI at a time and see if you can solve it that way. Otherwise maybe vent the keg and allow it to lose some fizz before trying again.

Other than that, I'm stumped.


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## yardy (26/1/07)

Wortgames said:


> Are you serving at the same pressure you carbed at? If so, that's a balanced system and you really shouldn't have any grief.
> 
> *Do you normally disconnect the gas after you force carb? *
> 
> ...





I do disconnect after carbing, I'll increase the length of the Beer Line and up the serve pressure a bit and see how it all goes.

appreciate the advice


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