# Beer Belly Wort Chiller



## a1149913 (29/5/12)

Hey guys, i'm wondering if anyone has used/uses the beerbelly Stainless Plate Heat Exchanger? (http://beerbelly.com.au/chilling.html ).

I currently use 10m of copper coil and submerse it into my boiling pot to chill my wort but the heat exchanger is far less bulky and seems like it would be less hassle to clean/sanitise. Whats the flow rate like for gravity feed. Anyone got any pictures of their set up? presumably you would have to submerse the heat exchanger in cold water to get sufficient chilling of the wort.

Thanks, Jacob


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## Wolfy (29/5/12)

Plate chillers work by running the hot wort through one 'side' (via two in/out outlets) and cold water through the other 'side' (via another two outlets) so it's not something that you immerse in water.

There are lots of links, references and even YouTube videos of home-brewers using 30-plate chillers, either with a pump or gravity. If your kettle is high enough above the chiller, you should be able to drain the kettle as quickly as you your taps/hoses allow, while simultaneously chilling the wort to within 1-2 degrees of the tap-water-temperature. 

It is less bulky and easier to manage, however since the wort flows through the plates inside the chiller (unlike immersing your copper coil in the kettle) it's actually harder to clean and maintain than your current setup, you also need to ensure that no hop or other debris gets lodged inside the chiller.


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## porky4776 (29/5/12)

This is a counterflow plate heat exchanger, wort flows through one way, cooling water the other. See linky for more detailed information.plate heat exchanger linky


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## a1149913 (29/5/12)

Ahhh i thought this was different to a counterflow chiller.

On the topic of filtering the wort to keep debris out of the chiller, has anyone used the beerbelly hop screen? (http://beerbelly.com.au/images/hopscreenstd.gif) I'm wondering if this is to only used with hop flowers and not hot pellets (those hole are quite large). Is there a particularly efficient way to filter hop pellets without getting the pickup blocked? Currently i just use a nylon "BIAB" bag to catch the hops as i fill the fermenter however this is just another point that is susceptible to causing infection.


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## Malted (29/5/12)

Hello Jacob,
yes I use one of the exact items you are interested in.





After use, I flush it through the wort pipes in both directions with a garden hose flowing briskly. I drain the water and then refill with mixed Starsan solution and cover the outlets with aluminium foil and store until next use. Next use I tip out the starsan and will run a bit of hot wort through it before I turn the cooling water on.

I bought one of these plate chillers because I thought it was neat that it has 1/2" NPT female sockets in it to attach whatever fittings I desired. It is a reasonable unit.

However, I think (but I could be wrong) that it appears to be no different to countless plate chillers/ biodiesel heat exchangers on eBay. 
I have also seen a mashmaster plate chiller in the flesh and it is a much longer and sexier item. I now have mashmaster plate chiller envy. It has barbed fittings on it but I don't think this would be a problem. I have used camlock fittings etc but am sort of moving back towards barbed fittings or some type of quick disconnect that I have not yet tried.

As for the flow rate of the plate chiller under a gravity feed, I can whack 25L through in a couple of minutes, it doesn't strip much heat out though with garden hose water around 20oC. I think it pulls the wort down to about 50oC if I run through slightly slower than flat out, maybe 70oC if flat out. That's quite fine if you just want to knock it down under hop isomerisation temps. I sometimes do this and return it to the BM for a much longer whirlpool and settling out time period. Then I run through the chiller quite a bit slower to reach about 24oC which is the best I can get without prechilling the cooling water.

I haven't really got prechilling the cooling water down pat yet. Submersing the chiller in cold water wouldn't really work very effectively unless you could circulate the water around the chiller unit and there appears to be better ways to do it. I'd suggest you pass the cooling water through your old immersion chiller that is placed in a container of ice slurry that is heavily salted. I'd reccommend a flow through temp guage of some sort to monitor the temp of your chilled wort pre-fermenter. It would be best to have valves on both the cooling water and wort outlets to regulate the flow, to control temps. 

Just my 2c and I am sure you will get other ideas AND better ideas.


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## JaseH (29/5/12)

I've got a Dudadiesel one from the US, pretty similar to the Beerbelly one by the sounds of it. I can get 27L of wort from boiling to 21oC into the fermenter in a few minutes using tap water. It works a treat!






Longer plate chillers are more effective at cooling than shorter ones. More plates allow less restriction of flow.


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## a1149913 (29/5/12)

Malted said:


> Hello Jacob,
> yes I use one of the exact items you are interested in.
> View attachment 54863
> 
> ...



Thanks Malted. I'm surprised you dont get better cooling from the counter flow chiller. The main reason i chill just to get under isomerisation temps however with the immersion chiller i usually get to 25C in <5mins which is an added bonus!

I'm also curious, what is that round thing hanging of your brewmaster?


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## Malted (29/5/12)

Jacob Thomas said:


> Thanks Malted. I'm surprised you dont get better cooling from the counter flow chiller. The main reason i chill just to get under isomerisation temps however with the immersion chiller i usually get to 25C in <5mins which is an added bonus!
> 
> I'm also curious, what is that round thing hanging of your brewmaster thing?



Like I implied, I think this plate chiller is too small. The other thing is that if you suck the wort out too quick you will suck up the trub and hop debris too. Slower flow gives them a chance to stay on the bottom. From 95oC to 24oC in one pass would be 5-10 minutes dependent upon trub and hop amounts. 

The round thingy is a terrific device called a Blichmann Engineering 'Hop Rocket'. You can use it as a randal between your beer keg and beer tap with it stuffed full of hops or other stuff to infuse flavour into your beer. You can use it upside down like I pictured and shove some hops in it to infuse some flavour into your wort and it also acts as a great filter in this way to keep debris and junk our of the plate chiller. Here a link to more information from an Australian suppliler: http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/blichmann-hop-rocket


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## drsmurto (29/5/12)

I use the same one as malted (30 plate) and gravity fed get the wort to 20C in a single pass using rainwater that has not been pre-chilled.

At this time of the year in the chilly Adelaide Hills i can get it down to lager pitching temps by slowing the flow from the chiller. 

I also use the hopscreen and it works a treat keeping hop debris and trub out of the chiller, helped by a good whirlpool prior to running it through the chiller.

Pic of my chiller setup attached, its the 20 plate but i now have a 30 plate.


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## a1149913 (29/5/12)

DrSmurto said:


> I use the same one as malted (30 plate) and gravity fed get the wort to 20C in a single pass using rainwater that has not been pre-chilled.
> 
> At this time of the year in the chilly Adelaide Hills i can get it down to lager pitching temps by slowing the flow from the chiller.
> 
> ...



Ahhh very good. I'm also up in Stirling where the water is freezing! Do you find the hop screen filters the fine particles from hop pellets? My whirlpooling can be hit and miss sometimes.


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## Malted (29/5/12)

Jacob Thomas said:


> Ahhh very good. I'm also up in Stirling where the water is freezing! Do you find the hop screen filters the fine particles from hop pellets? My whirlpooling can be hit and miss sometimes.




Personally I find whirlpooling another of those bug bears. The longer you leave the wort to settle, the clearer it will be. However, I do not like to leave to wort above isomerisation temps for very long. This is why I sometimes do the quick pass and then let it sit for 1/2hr - 1hr or what ever I feel like before the final pass through. Fine particles will settle with the trub if given time and perhaps use of finings (whirlfloc etc).

Edited for clarity.


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## Wolfy (29/5/12)

Malted said:


> The round thingy is a terrific device called a Blichmann Engineering 'Hop Rocket'. You can use it as a randal between your beer keg and beer tap with it stuffed full of hops or other stuff to infuse flavour into your beer. You can use it upside down like I pictured and shove some hops in it to infuse some flavour into your wort and it also acts as a great filter in this way to keep debris and junk our of the plate chiller. Here a link to more information from an Australian suppliler: http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/blichmann-hop-rocket


Sorry if it's off-topic, but you're not the first person I've seen that uses their hop-rocket up-side-down. What is the advantage of using it wrong-way-up (other than the outlet is on the bottom)? I assumed that by having it the right-way-up, it fills up, and then the infused wort comes out the top (with no risk of hot-side aeration) and you'd only tip it over when the kettle is drained to get all the wort out of the rocket?


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## Malted (29/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> Sorry if it's off-topic, but you're not the first person I've seen that uses their hop-rocket up-side-down. What is the advantage of using it wrong-way-up (other than the outlet is on the bottom)? I assumed that by having it the right-way-up, it fills up, and then the infused wort comes out the top (with no risk of hot-side aeration) and you'd only tip it over when the kettle is drained to get all the wort out of the rocket?



Most definately not the first person Wolfy. I happily admit I got the idea from someone on this forum doing the same thing but am sorry I can't remember who I got the idea from!
Others may have differing ideas but for me the advantage is that I dump a handfull of whole hop flowers into the device (in the upside down manner) and they act as a a filter given the perforated screen underneath them. I can pull the lid (or base as it is meant to be) off at any time to sort out any blockages in the valve between it and the Braumeister (I now use a hop sock). Also the hop and sediement cake in the device remains stationary if I stop or reduce the flow. Perhaps if used in the upright manner the hops and sediment would sink down if you slow or stop the flow and thus stir it up and relase particulate matter through?
I am not sure about hot side aeration, it is something I know little about and hence am not too worried about it, ignorance is bliss. Fair call though.

Edit for more thoughts.


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## drsmurto (29/5/12)

Jacob Thomas said:


> Ahhh very good. I'm also up in Stirling where the water is freezing! Do you find the hop screen filters the fine particles from hop pellets? My whirlpooling can be hit and miss sometimes.



The holes in the hop screen will allow fine particles through, when using pellets in large amounts i tend to use a hopsock although i do find a good whirlpool does settle out nicely - any problem with hit and miss whirlpooling shouldn't be blamed on the hopscreen, rather the user......  Brew more, whirlpool more, drink more, brew more..... practice makes perfect!


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## Batz (29/5/12)

If your going to buy a chiller why not buy a good one? One made for chilling beer and not some bio diesel adaption, spin off.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/19533/102...ow_Wort_Chiller


batz


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## Wolfy (29/5/12)

Batz said:


> If your going to buy a chiller why not buy a good one? One made for chilling beer and not some bio diesel adaption, spin off.


Because they are the same? 
"_The plate heat exchanger (PHE) was invented by Dr Richard Seligman in 1923 and revolutionised methods of indirect heating and cooling of fluids. Dr Richard Seligman founded APV in 1910 as the Aluminium Plant & Vessel Company Limited, a specialist fabricating firm supplying welded vessels to the brewery and vegetable oil trades._"
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_heat_exchanger


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## Murcluf (29/5/12)

I have a 30 plate chiller from Beerbelly and have no issue with it easy to use etc, the only point I can see outside of a good hefty whirlpool. Would be as Smurto said, is to have a hop screen because I have more issue at that end then at the chiller end. It's a hell of a lot easier to shut a tap and disconnect a hose an flush out chiller and hose. Then then clear an outlet pipe with 40lt of wort on top of it.


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## Batz (29/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> Because they are the same?
> "_The plate heat exchanger (PHE) was invented by Dr Richard Seligman in 1923 and revolutionised methods of indirect heating and cooling of fluids. Dr Richard Seligman founded APV in 1910 as the Aluminium Plant & Vessel Company Limited, a specialist fabricating firm supplying welded vessels to the brewery and vegetable oil trades._"
> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_heat_exchanger




You can't taste any fuel type tastes? Diesel perhaps?


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## sama (29/5/12)

Basic prechiller of mine


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## Batz (29/5/12)

Sorry bit naughty tonight.


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## amateurcurieux (30/5/12)

sama said:


> Basic prechiller of mine



Hi, 
i have a similar chiller but can you explain me why there is some ice around your chiller ?
No issues of sanatisation with ice ?

Stef - newbie - sorry for my bad english with french accent !!!


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## jimi (30/5/12)

amateurcurieux said:


> Hi,
> i have a similar chiller but can you explain me why there is some ice around your chiller ?
> No issues of sanatisation with ice ?
> 
> Stef - newbie - sorry for my bad english with french accent !!!



Hi stef and welcome to ahb.
Sama's picture is of a PREchiller not a chiller, although it does use an immersion chiller which would easily lead to your confusion. A PREchiller is a way of cooling the water you run through your chiller to more effectively drop the wort temp. Essentially the big picture would be that the water which runs through the chiller is run through the ice bath you see in Sama's picture to drop the water temp and then run through the chiller which allow the chiller to drop the wort temp to pitching temp more quickly.
Hope this helps


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## Wolfy (30/5/12)

sama said:


> Basic prechiller of mine


Do you run the wort through the 'ice chiller' _after_ it's cooled by the plate chiller (rather than pre-chill the cooling water)?

While the pre-chiller would be useful if your cooling water is fairly warm, I would have thought that running the wort through the ice-immersed coil after it's been cooled by the plate chiller would result in colder wort into the fermentor.


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## brad81 (30/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> Do you run the wort through the 'ice chiller' _after_ it's cooled by the plate chiller (rather than pre-chill the cooling water)?
> 
> While the pre-chiller would be useful if your cooling water is fairly warm, I would have thought that running the wort through the ice-immersed coil after it's been cooled by the plate chiller would result in colder wort into the fermentor.



It'd be a bastard to clean, but no worse than the plate chiller I'd assume...


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## Malted (30/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> Do you run the wort through the 'ice chiller' _after_ it's cooled by the plate chiller (rather than pre-chill the cooling water)?
> 
> While the pre-chiller would be useful if your cooling water is fairly warm, I would have thought that running the wort through the ice-immersed coil after it's been cooled by the plate chiller would result in colder wort into the fermentor.


Why would you need the wort that cold? 
It is probably about thermal efficiency. The tap water is likely to be cooler than the wort. So passing the tap water through the ice will make it melt less than the wort would and thus your ice will last longer. 
Just a theory that is probably flawed.


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## Wolfy (30/5/12)

brad81 said:


> It'd be a bastard to clean, but no worse than the plate chiller I'd assume...


Easier than a plate chiller - nothing really can get stuck inside the tube - it's essentially the same as my old counter flow chiller (copper pipe inside a garden hose).


Malted said:


> Why would you need the wort that cold?
> It is probably about thermal efficiency. The tap water is likely to be cooler than the wort. So passing the tap water through the ice will make it melt less than the wort would and thus your ice will last longer.
> Just a theory that is probably flawed.


For instant pitching of lagers, in the past the chiller gets the wort to about 20C and then it's refrigerated to pitch in morning when it's at 8c.
My theory was that dropping the wort from 20 to 8 (ice-chill after plate chiller) would be easier and more efficient than taking it from 100 to 8 (pr-chill cooling water), but since I've not done the experiment, I was asking if he had.


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## Malted (30/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> My theory was that dropping the wort from 20 to 8 (ice-chill after plate chiller) would be easier and more efficient than taking it from 100 to 8 (pr-chill cooling water), but since I've not done the experiment, I was asking if he had.



Ah I see. I was thinking that if my tap water could pull it down to 24oC then the prechilled water could pull it down to 12oC for pitching a lager, but potentially passing the cooled wort through the ice could pull it down to 5 or so degrees which I though might be too cool to pitch a lager. In my head I thought it could make the wort too cool. I have never brewed a lager or tried cooling in this manner. 
Sounds like it would be a good chilling experiment to try.


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## amateurcurieux (31/5/12)

jimi said:


> Hi stef and welcome to ahb.
> Sama's picture is of a PREchiller not a chiller, although it does use an immersion chiller which would easily lead to your confusion. A PREchiller is a way of cooling the water you run through your chiller to more effectively drop the wort temp. Essentially the big picture would be that the water which runs through the chiller is run through the ice bath you see in Sama's picture to drop the water temp and then run through the chiller which allow the chiller to drop the wort temp to pitching temp more quickly.
> Hope this helps



H i 
thanks for your answer - is there lot of brewer here who have a pre-chiller ?
Stef


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## jimi (31/5/12)

amateurcurieux said:


> H i
> thanks for your answer - is there lot of brewer here who have a pre-chiller ?
> Stef



If your tap water is normally pretty cool and you are only chilling to ale temps then a prechiller is unnecessary if your chiller is serviceable. So those who brew mostly ales in the southern states probably won't have too much of a need for a prechiller. The lager brewer up north in QLD etc might find them helpful


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## sama (1/6/12)

I use the prechiller (only occasionally) for the last 10min of immersion chilling.ie once my imersion chiller gets the wort to say 22, I hook up the prechiller,helps me to get to 16c,when my tank water won't get me lower without it.ive never bothered seeing how low it will get the wort,I don't do lagers.


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