# Wiring Temp Control into Fridge



## wildburkey (6/10/15)

Sorry to double up on posts here I am terrible at keeping on topic in forum's.
It seems most people here use project boxes to build temp controllers for their keg fridge or fermentation fridges, I just thought I'd share how I went about installing my single relay digital temp controller in a fridge with a buggered thermostat that I picked up for free.
The advantage in doing it this way is that you purchase less to achieve the same. The disadvantages - it would void warranty, the controller can not be used for anything other than controlling the temp of the fridge/ freezer it is installed in, and it will take a bit more understanding of your fridge/ freezer circuitry.
So here is what I have done, it's quite simple really if you have a fridge with a 240v light inside.
Running into the fridge there are a live (brown), neutral (blue), earth (green and yellow), and in my case a white wire which gets connected by the thermostat to the live (brown wire) to kick the compressor starter on and off.



In the picture above I have gutted the old thermostat and light and just kept the wires (with the white and brown twisted together the fridge compressor constantly runs)
From here I wired the active and neutral to power the controller, jumped the active from the input on the controller to one of the inbuilt relay switch terminals in the controller, and connected the white in the other relay terminal.


Once tested I cut a hole in the door, extended the wires and installed the controller in the door.


Here is a pic of the completed project -



I should note I am not a qualified electrician, I do have a good understanding of refrigeration mechanics. I am going to get a sparky to check this before consistent use and will keep ya'll updated when fully tried and tested. Circuitry may differ between fridges and a qualified sparky should be consulted if undergoing this project.

In theory the method I have used could also be used in conjunction with the existing thermostat cranked up on high if you connected the digital control relay in front of it and the light could be kept if power is taken in front of the switch!

Cheers all, I hope this can help someone.


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## wildburkey (6/10/15)

I got the A OK on this from a qualified sparky :beerbang:
Gunna test it out with a fermenter full of water and log high and low temps with a separate thermometer.
I should also note - the fridge is earthed from the compressor, the lonely earth wire was for the fridges original thermostat (the digital controllers I have come across do not need grounding); it is essential to have the fridge grounded! This will come in handy when I convert to a dual relay STC-1000 if I should add a heater that requires earthing.


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## glenwal (7/10/15)

I'd be putting a nylon screw or something in the door/flap that the controller is behind.

Don't want a drunk mate getting curious and opening it up.


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## wildburkey (9/10/15)

Yeah I was saying that I should do that to a mate I was showing, he'd prob be the culprit if I don't now, going to wait till I get the STC to control both hot and cold and do just that thanks Glen.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/10/15)

Groan


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## S.E (9/10/15)

I would be uncomfortable having live wires inside a fermenting fridge, they can get quite damp inside. Mine often has condensation running down the door and sides.


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## Camo6 (9/10/15)

Is the fridge door grounded?


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## wildburkey (9/10/15)

I'll keep an eye on moisture, I'm going to lock, seal and screw the compartment shelf in once the STC arrives, I'll put some silicon around the joined wires also. There is nothing conductive near the live wires in the door but might as well ground it to be sure. Cheers


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## S.E (9/10/15)

wildburkey said:


> I'll keep an eye on moisture, I'm going to lock, seal and screw the compartment shelf in once the STC arrives, I'll put some silicon around the joined wires also. There is nothing conductive near the live wires in the door but might as well ground it to be sure. Cheers


I usually open ferment or put the lid on loosely so can get a fair bit of condensation in winter. If you seal the fv with an airlock or glad wrap it may not be a problem for you.


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## Camo6 (9/10/15)

wildburkey said:


> I'll keep an eye on moisture, I'm going to lock, seal and screw the compartment shelf in once the STC arrives, I'll put some silicon around the joined wires also. There is nothing conductive near the live wires in the door but might as well ground it to be sure. Cheers


Moisture is conductive. Just thinking if that exposed foam took on condensation which found it's way into the vented STC housing, that whole door could become a conductor with no path to ground (except maybe through you if you're lucky).

When it comes to electricity, there's a rule book as thick as the Bible primarily implemented to prevent death or injury by electric shock. Earthing requirements has it's own chapter. Sounds like your sparky may have skipped this section or just has a penchant for free beer. :unsure:


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/10/15)

Dont **** with 240v electricity. Its a pretty simple moto to follow


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> Moisture is conductive. Just thinking if that exposed foam took on condensation which found it's way into the vented STC housing, that whole door could become a conductor with no path to ground (except maybe through you if you're lucky).
> 
> When it comes to electricity, there's a rule book as thick as the Bible primarily implemented to prevent death or injury by electric shock. Earthing requirements has it's own chapter. Sounds like your sparky may have skipped this section or just has a penchant for free beer. :unsure:


This is completely correct. I am a sparky and i can tell you your set up needs to meet the demand of an rating of IP54. This covers particles in the fridge and condensation/splashing. If you care about making it proper, that temp controller needs to be in it's own segregated enclosure, and the cables coming back into the fridge (double insulated) through grommets, all sealed with silicon at the least. 
I would cover that hole you carved with some sort of metal plating, then over the top of it mount a plastic box of some sort. It could be metal as long as it is earthed sufficiently. you can leave your cables as long as you need inside the separate enclosure, so you can pull it out and look at the back of the controller as needed. Sorry for being a douche. 

If you want to check out for yourself the minimum requirements, IP ratings are on wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code

It is an international standard, and for good reason. Imagine the entire inside of your fridge being live because of condensation. This is your potential at the moment.


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## S.E (9/10/15)

To be fair he has had a qualified sparky check it over. And it sounds like he on to the safety side of things and aware of the problems ingress of moisture could cause.

He has connected his STC to the existing vented 220v light supply inside the fridge and intends to seal it all up so should be safer than it was before.

I bet most people would be happy using an external STC and just leaving the existing exposed 220v light unsealed.


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## Camo6 (9/10/15)

S.E said:


> To be fair he has had a qualified sparky check it over. And it sounds like he on to the safety side of things and aware of the problems ingress of moisture could cause.
> 
> He has connected his STC to the existing vented 220v light supply inside the fridge and intends to seal it all up so should be safer than it was before.
> 
> I bet most people would be happy using an external STC and just leaving the existing exposed 220v light unsealed.


The difference being the original light/thermostat was mounted in a plastic panel and earthed directly. Not mounted in a painted metal door that previously held no electric components and probably not adequately grounded to the rest of the fridge.

I use external STC's but they're double insulated, have no external conductive parts and use an intact earth circuit.

I applaud the OP's resourcefulness, and reckon it will make a great ferment chamber once he makes it safe but let's not create an online DIY guide for a potential death trap without exposing the risks.


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## S.E (9/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> The difference being the original light/thermostat was mounted in a plastic panel and earthed directly. Not mounted in a painted metal door that previously held no electric components and probably not adequately grounded to the rest of the fridge.
> 
> I use external STC's but they're double insulated, have no external conductive parts and use an intact earth circuit.
> 
> I applaud the OP's resourcefulness, and reckon it will make a great ferment chamber once he makes it safe but let's not create an online DIY guide for a potential death trap without exposing the risks.


I understand your concern that the door should be earthed and the OP took that point on board and said he would do it as an extra precaution even though he pointed out that the wiring was double insulated by the plastic internal door and the double insulated STC.

Even though the original light fitting is mounted in plastic and earthed there are still 220v exposed/unsealed wires there, so that and those in the newly mounted STC is what I would be uncomfortable about in my damp fermenting fridge.

I don’t think the op is trying to create an online guide for a potential death trap, but putting forward his idea and open to and taking on board input and suggestion.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> I applaud the OP's resourcefulness, and reckon it will make a great ferment chamber once he makes it safe but let's not create an online DIY guide for a potential death trap without exposing the risks.


This is why I cringe whenever I see a thread on here that has anything to do with mains power.

Personally I would like to see the mods & admin stop the posting of things to do with electrical wiring.

Imagine if someone got killed or injured and during the investigation the builder said " Yeah..I saw it on a thread on the internet .."

Sorry...*BUT DONT **** WITH ELECTRICITY*


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/10/15)

S.E said:


> To be fair he has had a qualified sparky check it over. And it sounds like he on to the safety side of things and aware of the problems ingress of moisture could cause.
> 
> He has connected his STC to the existing vented 220v light supply inside the fridge and intends to seal it all up so should be safer than it was before.
> 
> I bet most people would be happy using an external STC and just leaving the existing exposed 220v light unsealed.


 I have seen plenty of sparkies get it wrong....and its the simple basics that they get wrong most of the time


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## S.E (9/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> This is why I cringe whenever I see a thread on here that has anything to do with mains power.
> 
> Personally I would like to see the mods & admin stop the posting of things to do with electrical wiring.
> 
> ...


Don’t think anyone is suggesting people unfamiliar with electrical wiring should **** with it Stu. Just sharing knowledge on brewing gear.

Would you like the mods & admin to stop the posting of brewing alcohol? After all there is so much depression, violence, injury and death caused by it?


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## S.E (9/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I have seen plenty of sparkies get it wrong....and its the simple basics that they get wrong most of the time


I have also seen and employed a few qualified sparkies that got it wrong and had to put it right myself. I am not a sparky.


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

S.E said:


> I have also seen and employed a few qualified sparkies that got it wrong and had to put it right myself. I am not a sparky.


I am a sparky and I do nothing but fix other peoples crap. Bad things have pointed out and it should be done right. It's an appliance though so OP can do what they want. At least if you're a Catholic drinker, you wont be proof of Darwinism. 

PS the qualified sparky who checked it out should be checked via resit of A grade exams.


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

S.E said:


> Would you like the mods & admin to stop the posting of brewing alcohol? After all there is so much depression, violence, injury and death caused by it?


NO. just the post regarding wiring up elctricity


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

S.E said:


> I have also seen and employed a few qualified sparkies that got it wrong and had to put it right myself. I am not a sparky.


That is truly scary

And yet you advocate people being allowed to do their own wiring....


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

kunfaced said:


> It's an appliance though so OP can do what they want. A


And this is true.( and it bullshit that the law allows this to happen ...)

But I dont think we should be condoning the wiring up of persons own devices

Just because it might be legal does not make an excuse for allowing people to do potentially unsafe modifications

Sorry S.E...but not a hope in hell of me EVER agreeing with you on this subject..NOT EVER


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## Brew Forky (10/10/15)

Then you pay the money for a Keg King Temp controller and the LHBS is screaming at your stupidity. It's then placed in a hopefully fire retardant area. Dangerous game this brewing caper


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## Camo6 (10/10/15)

S.E said:


> I don’t think the op is trying to create an online guide for a potential death trap, but putting forward his idea and open to and taking on board input and suggestion.


I'm not saying the OP is but if no one added any input or suggestion towards making it safer (which is what we're doing yeah?) then it inadvertently could become one. But, in true forum fashion, let's keep flogging a dead horse.


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## Tex N Oz (10/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> I'm not saying the OP is but if no one added any input or suggestion towards making it safer (which is what we're doing yeah?) then it inadvertently could become one. But, in true forum fashion, let's keep flogging a dead horse.


Install an inline RCD just to ensure you don't have an "aww shit moment". There are things you can do to increase safety.
I'm a bit torn on the subject to be honest. Mains can be potentially fatal but so can just about anything else in life. I've spent most of my career working in the US and Canada where job-site safety is an after-thought but one helluva lot more productive. I remember working as a contractor at a mine site in WA and it took me 8 hours of paperwork and waiting for safety just to have access to an HV switchboard to check oil levels in a couple of switches. Elsewhere, I'd have been in and out in 5 minutes. 
I think the mentality has went a bit too far to one side and there has to be a balance found between productivity and safety. I personally think the common man should be able to use his own discretion and not be subject to complete "nannyism". Perhaps there should be a thread started on electrical basics and safety instead of demanding we can't do it. We all know that people are going to do it right or wrong, illegal or legal, safe or unsafe. Education is a good fundamental building-block to safety.


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## S.E (10/10/15)

kunfaced said:


> I am a sparky and I do nothing but fix other peoples crap. Bad things have pointed out and it should be done right. It's an appliance though so OP can do what they want. At least if you're a Catholic drinker, you wont be proof of Darwinism.
> 
> PS the qualified sparky who checked it out should be checked via resit of A grade exams.


I agree that potential bad things have been pointed out and it should be done right. It was me who voiced concerns that live wires inside a fermenting fridge could be a hazard in the first place.

Fridges are not really designed to be used as fermenting chambers. Fermenting wort can cause excessive condensation in a fridge that wouldn’t normally be present when the appliance is used for its intended purpose.

The op has connected his STC to the existing 220v supply to the light. This would be exposed and unsealed from moisture regardless of whether he had connected to it or not.

In your professional opinion do you think my concern is unfounded and that extending the live light wire to another location within the fridge is the only problem even though he intends to seal it?


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## S.E (10/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> That is truly scary
> 
> And yet you advocate people being allowed to do their own wiring....


It is truly scary, so who would you suggest should do wiring? We have both seen and agree that even qualified electricians can get it wrong and carry out shoddy work. I don’t have a problem with people doing their own wiring if they are competent to do so. I’ve always wired my own and other people’s houses.

I wired new a house that a friend was building and when the engineer arrived to connect the electricity he wasn’t happy when he realised I wasn’t an electrician. He thought I was a heating engineer as I was installing the central heating at the time.

After going through my work with a fine tooth comb he came in to the utility room where I was connecting a copper pipe to the boiler. The pipe was the diesel supply that lead out to a metal tank in the garden. He smugly told me he wasn’t going to connect us up as he wanted a short section of plastic pipe joined to the copper where it entered the house so the tank would be isolated from the house.

About an hour after he left his boss rang my friend and said not to install the plastic pipe pointing out the potential fire hazard that if there was ever a fire in the utility room it would be fueled with gallons of diesel when the pipe melted.

[SIZE=11pt]Matey was back with his tail between his legs to connect us up later that day.  [/SIZE]


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## S.E (10/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> And this is true.( and it bullshit that the law allows this to happen ...)
> 
> But I dont think we should be condoning the wiring up of persons own devices
> 
> ...


That’s a bit hypocritical since it was you who advised me on wiring my fridge!!

Have a read through this thread Stu.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77976-any-refrigeration-engineers-or-anyone-competent-with-fridges/


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

Yes it is hypocritical of me back them

I no longer offer advice because I came to the realisation that it was not a good idea


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## S.E (10/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Yes it is hypocritical of me back them
> 
> I no longer offer advice because I came to the realisation that it was not a good idea


Fair enough, but I disagree that it a bad idea. As Tex N Oz said people are going to do it anyway so best they learn to do it right.

After all what is the alternative, call an electrician? We both agree that calling a qualified sparky is no guarantee that the job will be done properly and safely.

How would you suggest people get their fermenting fridges wired?


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

S.E said:


> I don’t have a problem with people doing their own wiring if they are competent to do so.


How would you know if they where competent..?


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## Barge (10/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> We all know that people are going to do it right or wrong, illegal or legal, safe or unsafe. Education is a good fundamental building-block to safety.


I agree. By discussing kettle element wiring I now have an IP rated and safe setup that is fully enclosed and grounded. Hopefully some people realised by reading that thread that their set-ups were less than ideal. 




Ducatiboy stu said:


> Personally I would like to see the mods & admin stop the posting of things to do with electrical wiring.


This is why I didn't update the tread with detailed pictures and instructions of how I sealed the element enclosure, earthed the kettle, etc. The last thing I wanted (and presumably the last thing the OP in this thread wants) is to present a step-by-step DIY guide to wiring a kettle / fridge / 1V mash controller.

It is fair enough for people to seek advice here as there are very knowledgeable people here who understand the application of the systems we are trying to build. Each thread that I have read that involves wiring highlights emphatically the need to have wiring completed by a licensed electrician. It's good that we can get a second opinion here so that we are not relying on a sole person who may not fully understand the context or who has less experience.


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## Camo6 (10/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> Install an inline RCD just to ensure you don't have an "aww shit moment". There are things you can do to increase safety.


See, this is just the kind of misinformation that creates the accidents that result in stronger laws that you or I might deem common sense.

A Residual Current Device compares in current with out current and trips if a difference is detected. What causes it to trip? EARTH LEAKAGE. If dem electrons can't escape to ground then for all the RCD knows it's still supplying a load. 

However, give it somewhere to escape, ie an earth circuit or your bare tootsies on bare earth, and some of that current won't make it back to the RCD and you'll likely survive when it trips within 30ms.

What if, without an earth, that door takes on 240v and sits there ready to jump to the first thing to give it a way down to that sweet sweet dirt? What if the first thing that touches it is you, sneaking out to check your brew, wearing your insulated workboots? No path to ground, so you light up like a Christmas tree and the RCD might as well be a Snickers bar as even that would stand a greater chance of saving you.

Sure, the scenario might seem unlikely but most of these safety regulations are put in place due to these scenarios. An RCD is only to be used to augment a protected circuit, not to be its soul protection.

There's a good reason for the AS3000 and the electrical trade being licensed. There's also good reason for a lot of the laws implemented in Australia. Sure, a lot of them are a crock or there to protect the stoopid but considering that workplace deaths are usually more than double the annual road toll, surely it's got its merits?

I've seen pictures of what can happen in countries that don't put the same value on life as in Australia and I can tell you where I'd rather live.


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

+1

RCD's & ELCB only work in certain situations when installed correctly

They also fail

Just saying " use an RCD and you will be right :" is a bit like putting the front wheel back on your car with only 1 wheel nut and saying it will be right cause I wear I seatbelt when I drive


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## Tex N Oz (10/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> See, this is just the kind of misinformation that creates the accidents that result in stronger laws that you or I might deem common sense.
> 
> A Residual Current Device compares in current with out current and trips if a difference is detected. What causes it to trip? EARTH LEAKAGE. If dem electrons can't escape to ground then for all the RCD knows it's still supplying a load.
> 
> ...


Well, an RCD is designed to trip not in 30ms but 30ma with 32ma being the maximum deviation.
I've several industrial wet area tools sitting outside with RCDs on them and they are APPROVED in Australia with no other safety but that device and the upstream overload protection.
So by your comment, you are saying that an RCD is a totally ineffective device and advising someone install one on an appliance is bad advice? **** me.


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## Camo6 (10/10/15)

Good one mate. In a thread where I've been commenting on the need to earth a conductive part in order to achieve an earth fault circuit you try and twist my words with that shit. Read my post. Without an earth, what's the point in throwing in an inline RCD? Are you advising the next bloke to read this post to relax and just chuck a portable RCD in? She'll be right mate.

So, are your outdoor appliances the same category as a fridge? Do they have unearthed, exposed components?

When did I mention trip current? To be fair it's more like 40ms for a typical RCD but you spelt mA wrong.


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## Tex N Oz (10/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> Good one mate. In a thread where I've been commenting on the need to earth a conductive part in order to achieve an earth fault circuit you try and twist my words with that shit. Read my post. Without an earth, what's the point in throwing in an inline RCD? Are you advising the next bloke to read this post to relax and just chuck a portable RCD in? She'll be right mate.
> 
> So, are your outdoor appliances the same category as a fridge? Do they have unearthed, exposed components?
> 
> When did I mention trip current? To be fair it's more like 40ms for a typical RCD but you spelt mA wrong.


What?!
Did you hear me advise against grounding the door??? I don't think we're on the same page mate as I would NEVER make that advice to anyone.. ever. If you have a component mounted or wires running through a metal space or conduit it has got to be grounded. FULL STOP!!
I advised to add an RCD and you went off.. I quoted your comment (that I liked and appreciated) to make it safer and that is a safety device and one that I appreciate having on everything I build.
I'm still skull fucked as to when I tried to undermine anything you said in the post I quoted.... Am I missing something?


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## Brew Forky (10/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> Are you advising the next bloke to read this post to relax and just chuck a portable RCD in? She'll be right mate.


Sounds good to me. I'm gonna chuck a STC-1000 into the fridge and hook her up to the light globe. It'll be safe in it's lunch box . Get myself one of those portable RCD thingos, wire it through the plastic and put it on the top shelf. Bad ass beer without out a hitch.


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## spog (10/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> How would you know if they where competent..?


Did you not read the word IF ,followed by,they were(where) competent ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

spog said:


> Did you not read the word IF ,followed by,they were(where) competent ?


How do you know IF they are competant


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## Barge (10/10/15)

How do you know IF she's a which


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/10/15)

She will weigh the same as an RCD


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## Camo6 (10/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> What?!
> Did you hear me advise against grounding the door??? I don't think we're on the same page mate as I would NEVER make that advice to anyone.. ever. If you have a component mounted or wires running through a metal space or conduit it has got to be grounded. FULL STOP!!
> I advised to add an RCD and you went off.. I quoted your comment (that I liked and appreciated) to make it safer and that is a safety device and one that I appreciate having on everything I build.
> I'm still skull fucked as to when I tried to undermine anything you said in the post I quoted.... Am I missing something?


Cheer up Charlie. Would hardly say I went off. Just making point of why you can't just fall back and rely on an RCD. I don't doubt you know this and wasn't employing otherwise but not everyone is aware.

Then you had to throw cuss words in and, to top it all off, excessive punctuation marks. For a minute there I almost let the internet upset me.

Gonna go drown my sorrows at Brewforky's place. I hear his fridge is to die for.


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## Brew Forky (11/10/15)

Yeah mate. I'm gonna get one of those divided lunch boxes, fill half with water and chuck the control probe in it. The other half will house the control unit after being wired up to the fridge globe with the glass taken off. All good.

Talking about competency though. My house went through a stage where there was no way to turn off the power. I got my electrician mate around to fix it but he couldn't because he was too scared, and said he had to call the electricity company to find out when the electricity was being shut down to the area. Not competent. Called a guy on Gumtree and he installed a new power box and RCD in 15 minutes. Competent. Told my mate and he said the other electrician was out of his mind. No, he wasn't, he was competent.


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## Pokey (11/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> See, this is just the kind of misinformation that creates the accidents that result in stronger laws that you or I might deem common sense.
> A Residual Current Device compares in current with out current and trips if a difference is detected. What causes it to trip? EARTH LEAKAGE. If dem electrons can't escape to ground then for all the RCD knows it's still supplying a load.
> However, give it somewhere to escape, ie an earth circuit or your bare tootsies on bare earth, and some of that current won't make it back to the RCD and you'll likely survive when it trips within 30ms.
> What if, without an earth, that door takes on 240v and sits there ready to jump to the first thing to give it a way down to that sweet sweet dirt? What if the first thing that touches it is you, sneaking out to check your brew, wearing your insulated workboots? No path to ground, so you light up like a Christmas tree and the RCD might as well be a Snickers bar as even that would stand a greater chance of saving you.
> ...


My understanding of RCDs, they monitor the current in the active and neutral, if they deviate by 30mA the RCD trips.
The circuit also needs over current protection.
In the above case of the door being live, with no RCD you would need to trip the over current protection, probably 16 or 20 amp breaker. Only likely if the door is earthed, definitely bad if the door isn't earthed and you complete the circuit. Same senario with an RCD, the door can still be live if it's not earthed, if you touch it and you are insulated(work boots) nothing will happen, if you are earthed the RCD will trip, you'll have a bad day but probably survive. If the door is earthed the RCD will trip at 30ma.

Basically, install RCDs and earth everything. 
And humidity and electronics is bad


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/10/15)

Pokey said:


> My understanding of RCDs, they monitor the current in the active and neutral, if they deviate by 30mA the RCD trips.
> The circuit also needs over current protection.
> In the above case of the door being live, with no RCD you would need to trip the over current protection, probably 16 or 20 amp breaker. Only likely if the door is earthed, definitely bad if the door isn't earthed and you complete the circuit. Same senario with an RCD, the door can still be live if it's not earthed, if you touch it and you are insulated(work boots) nothing will happen, if you are earthed the RCD will trip, you'll have a bad day but probably survive. If the door is earthed the RCD will trip at 30ma.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you have ever touched a live active even with insulated work boots on..

Personally I dont recommend it.....


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## Pokey (11/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Not sure if you have ever touched a live active even with insulated work boots on..
> 
> Personally I dont recommend it.....


I wouldn't either and I was referring to the "insulated" work boots in the quote. Work boots unless brand new are unlikely to insulate


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/10/15)

Even insulated ones will bite you...not always...but they can


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## Camo6 (11/10/15)

Pokey said:


> I wouldn't either and I was referring to the "insulated" work boots in the quote. Work boots unless brand new are unlikely to insulate


Yeah, my scenario may be a little unlikely as you wouldn't cross active and neutral opening the door but I was a little heatstruck and had a few beers under the belt. Still, the message I'm trying to get across is not to take any chances with electrical safety.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/10/15)

Camo6 said:


> Still, the message I'm trying to get across is not to take any chances with electrical safety.


Amen brother


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## kunfaced (11/10/15)

ll it takes is half an amp. that's 0.5A or 500mA across a healthy heart for someone to die. Guess what's between your arm and your feet where the electricity wants to look for ground? Advice has been put out there to be concerned about. By regulations you are obliged to do what you want, as the fridge is an appliance. As a true libertarian, I applaud your self-independence and ability to do things for yourself. Electricity is safe if you are sensible about it. Needless to say though you would be a fool to not take any of the advice given. I don't think the OP is a fool, in light of all his efforts. There is no need to cut-throat each other over semantics. It is the OP's thread, and they have taken all sensible avenues on their venture. Let's not muddle their intentions, and behave like sober adults. If we scare the OP off, we may never hear about how awesome the idea could end up being.


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## wildburkey (11/10/15)

Thanks for your concerns and input everyone, I have been flat out over the weekend and only just come back to this and honestly don't have the time just atm to individually reply to every post here. For now I'd like to point out there is some good debate within this thread and I personally had concerns about posting it but decided to go ahead using a disclaimer. Stu raises a fair point in web liability and others likewise have identified my main intention (to get input and inspire ideas) and given great advice in making this project safer and had fair points for keeping the thread. I'll get back soon and review this, I'd like to hear from mods here what their opinion is on the topic.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/10/15)

kunfaced said:


> ll it takes is half an amp. that's 0.5A or 500mA across a healthy heart for someone to die. Guess what's between your arm and your feet where the electricity wants to look for ground? Advice has been put out there to be concerned about. By regulations you are obliged to do what you want, as the fridge is an appliance. As a true libertarian, I applaud your self-independence and ability to do things for yourself. Electricity is safe if you are sensible about it. Needless to say though you would be a fool to not take any of the advice given. I don't think the OP is a fool, in light of all his efforts. There is no need to cut-throat each other over semantics. It is the OP's thread, and they have taken all sensible avenues on their venture. Let's not muddle their intentions, and behave like sober adults. If we scare the OP off, we may never hear about how awesome the idea could end up being.


Your post is wrong on so many levels.....Truly scary that you would post that...**** me....

The first 10 WORDS are unbelievable


Its post like this that scare me the most


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## kunfaced (11/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Your post is wrong on so many levels.....Truly scary that you would post that...**** me....
> 
> The first 10 WORDS are unbelievable
> 
> ...


At least offer an explanation.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/10/15)

The explanation is in your post


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## GibboQLD (12/10/15)

I was happy to just eat my popcorn and enjoy this thread, but had to jump in:



kunfaced said:


> it takes is half an amp. that's 0.5A or 500mA across a healthy heart for someone to die.


AS/NZS 60479.1 disagrees (there are also a lot more variables to it than magnitude of fault current):







AC-1 and AC-2 are typically survivable (albeit more painful as time/current/both increase), AC-3 is nominally survivable but much more painful (and potentially fatal depending on the individual), and AC-4 (including 4.1/4.2/4.3) is just bad news (cardiac arrest, breathing arrest, burns, ventricular fibrillation, you get the picture...).

If any part of the overall protection system fails and you manage to get hooked up for a second or two, as little as 50mA can put you in a whole world of hurt, assuming you win the probability game and your heart/breathing doesn't stop first.


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## S.E (12/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> How would you know if they where competent..?


I wouldn’t know and it wouldn’t be my call. I wasn’t advising on how to wire anything up.

What I said was “I don’t have a problem with people doing their own wiring if they are competent to do so”. They would need to decide themselves if they are competent and work within their limitations.

Most people are capable of understanding and learning to carry out simple household wiring repairs and installations but cannot legally do so any more. Unfortunately they cannot learn these skills from their parents, relatives or friends as used to be the case.

They now must call a licensed sparky who will charge an excessive amount of money (because they need to make it worth their while) to do a simple job like install an extra socket or light in their house.

In theory getting a licensed sparky in should ensure the work is carried out properly and safely, but as previously discussed in practice it doesn’t. Don’t even get me started on gas fitters.

The nanny state mentality in Australia and the not far behind UK does worry me. People are becoming so dependent on others to keep them safe.

Seeing youngsters crossing the road on the way to the local high school scares the crap out of me. They all without exception press the button on the crossing and as soon as the little green man tells them it’s safe to cross they do so, talking to each other or staring straight ahead without looking left or right to see if the oncoming traffic is actually going to stop. They just assume drivers will see the red light and stop as they are supposed to.

Whatever happened to the Green Cross Code?


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## barls (12/10/15)

ok enough on the political views on the so called nanny state and discussion on who is competent
this has gone far enough off track. 
its the law that it has to be done that way so that the end of the discussion.


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## Tex N Oz (12/10/15)

barls said:


> ok enough on the political views on the so called nanny state and discussion on who is competent
> this has gone far enough off track.
> its the law that it has to be done that way so that the end of the discussion.


What law?


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/10/15)

How many so called competent DIYers would fully understand AS300 and the need to be able to wire up to the ASNZ standard

I actually rang the NSW office of Fair Trading about DIY appliance wiring. Basically you can do you own appliance wiring ( fixed wiring is illegal ), BUT it has to be done to ASNZ.

If shit goes down and you end up in court and you did not wire it up to the standard you could be looking at jail time

*DONT **** WITH ELECTRICITY.* Its pretty simple


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## S.E (12/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> How many so called competent DIYers would fully understand AS300 and the need to be able to wire up to the ASNZ standard
> 
> I actually rang the NSW office of Fair Trading about DIY appliance wiring. Basically you can do you own appliance wiring ( fixed wiring is illegal ), BUT it has to be done to ASNZ.
> 
> ...


So basically what you’re saying is you have checked it out and it is perfectly fine and dandy what the op is doing.

But you would recommend against sexual interaction with electricity.

Well I for one am glad that has been cleared up and this can be put to bed.


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/10/15)

Sex and electricity is not my thing....

There are probably web sites for those that are into it.....


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## S.E (12/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Sex and electricity is not my thing....
> 
> There are probably web sites for those that are into it.....


Ok so now we are narrowing it down. You don’t enjoy sex involving electricity. But what the op is proposing to do with his fermenting fridge is fine?


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/10/15)

S.E said:


> . But what the op is proposing to do with his fermenting fridge is fine?


What..?


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## S.E (12/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What..?


You said it was ok to do your own appliance wiring, BUT it has to be done to ASNZ. No?

So what the op is doing, in particular starting this thread to seek advice on doing it to properly is all good, Yes?


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/10/15)

It is legal, but I will NOT advocate it.


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## S.E (12/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> It is legal, but I will NOT advocate it.


 Is “advocate” some sort of innuendo for **** it?


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## Camo6 (12/10/15)

This threads certainly going places innit it?

Advocate? You mean like Devil's Advocate? As in one who argues a point not necessarily of their own belief in order to instigate an argument or create debate. Sounds eerily familiar...


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/10/15)

Damn


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## Diesel80 (12/10/15)

What did I miss?

Were any fridges harmed in the making of this thread?

Cheers,
D80


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## S.E (12/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Damn


Do you think we should delete this thread and start again from the top, so confusing?


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## wildburkey (20/10/15)

OK so coming back to this thread there is way too much to cover with the time I have available. I still haven't progressed any further than the figuring out of the wiring for this, I should also mention old mate sparky did bring up moisture and say technically whatever.... (I argued that paper doesn't absorb any moisture EDIT:'in butter compartments')... I asked am I gunna die and he said prob not _'shrugging his shoulders'_ if I seal the connections in the fridge from moisture. I definitely recommend earthing the door, I personally can't believe he didn't recommend doing so.
EDIT: 'plus seal and lock the butter storage compartment and ideally have the STC itself in it's own enclosure with grommets to seal moisture. At the end of the day this is probably not an ideal solution given the considerations needed.'


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