# Low Carb Home Brew



## Aus_Rider_22 (12/11/15)

Hi guys. It's been years since I last posted, glad to be back. 

I have had a fairly decent spell off home brewing and moving into my new house I am looking to get back into it and setting up a keg fridge again. I would love nothing more than to get the Crown running again and do some nice all grain brews but I plan to stick on a low-carb lifestyle. 

With that in mind my question is, have many people had success with the low carb offerings? In particular this decarb stuff http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/products/DeCarb-Blonde-%252d-2.35kg.html 

I am guessing it will be much like my current drinks of choice, Bigheads, Superdry, Blonde. Very dry and lacking in flavour. My idea to combat this is to add late/dry hops to give some taste to the decarb kit. Would this make the beer terribly unbalanced with a lack of malt backbone?

As much as I would love to be able to brew whatever I wanted, I am sticking to low carb and something with a bit more taste than the commercial offerings! It's easy enough buying a carton whenever, but I miss having a keg ready to pour from and the fun in fermenting!

Thanks for any replies


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## Digga (12/11/15)

Your link is bad well I can't see anything on the phone.
I have used dry enzyme once to create a super dry clone from a k&k type brew and worked out well had 20g of hops at the start of ferment from memory. Came out good and would do again.
http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/products/Dry-Beer-Enzyme-%252d-30ml.html
This isn't the shit I used but does the same thing by the looks. And would be more suited to you then the single use 1 brew packet I used.
Hope this helps.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (12/11/15)

Thanks for the reply Digga!  I am assuming that the decarb kits come with a dry enzyme to ensure they are correct with the low sugar in their nutritional values.

I don't know why the link didn't work

http://www.countrybrewer.com.au/categories/Beer-Brewing/Concentrates/DeCarb-%252d-Low-Carb-Beers/


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## killspice (12/11/15)

Keep in mind that the calorie per ml in the low carb beers is virtually identical to regular beers, it is just alcohol molecules not carbohydrates. 
I am not a dietician but apparently alcohol is metabolised before other sugars in the blood, so there may be a slight net benefit to lower carb beers, but it is basically a marketing gimmick, like low fat products loaded with sugar.


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## pcmfisher (12/11/15)

killspice said:


> Keep in mind that the calorie per ml in the low carb beers is virtually identical to regular beers, it is just alcohol molecules not carbohydrates.
> I am not a dietician but apparently alcohol is metabolised before other sugars in the blood, so there may be a slight net benefit to lower carb beers, but it is basically a marketing gimmick, like low fat products loaded with sugar.


Alcohol and carbs have similar calories but calories per ml won't be the same if they both have the same amount of alcohol.

If both beers have 5% abv and one is low carb, the low carb one will have less calories. 

They start off with a lower gravity (less ingredients - more money for the big breweries), it ferments out more, finishing at a lower gravity giving less carbs but ending up with the same alcohol.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (12/11/15)

killspice said:


> Keep in mind that the calorie per ml in the low carb beers is virtually identical to regular beers, it is just alcohol molecules not carbohydrates.
> I am not a dietician but apparently alcohol is metabolised before other sugars in the blood, so there may be a slight net benefit to lower carb beers, but it is basically a marketing gimmick, like low fat products loaded with sugar.


I should have stated in my original post that I am not interested in people trying to state diet related advice. I know what works for me, I have shed 75kg and counting since I last posted a thread on here about my last all grain brew day some 4 years ago. I couldn't care less about the calorie content of beer, it's the carbohydrates that matter for me. Not having a go or aiming this at your killspice.  I had searched for previous threads regarding low carb and had to laugh at many of the responses about ill-informed advice regarding carbs and was hoping this wouldn't turn into that 

You are correct, the body switches to using alcohol for fuel above anything else when it's consumed, and it also doesn't get stored as glycogen like carbs do which is a small positive! I also agree about point of low-fat products being a gimmick of marketing and unfortunately bad science from many years ago! They are packed full of sugar.  :thumbsup I have lost all my weight with no extra exercise, just high fat and low carb diet! Didn't want to go off onto a tangent but maybe it will explain why I am interested in making my own low carb beer! It's gotta taste better than Bigheads, surely!


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## GalBrew (12/11/15)

You can produce a low carb beer without resorting to enzymes, through recipe design and mashing schedule.


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## Charst (12/11/15)

Ive been thinking about trying to produce a Low carb beer for a while.

Im planning a Saison with a Characterfull Base malt like Bohemian Pils or Marris Otter or Vienna, Mash for 90 mins @ 62-63. Aiming for 4% and assuming attenuation of 85-90% with a Wyyeast 3711 the carbs left in the beer should be minimal, and the total calories lowish. 
Let yeast count and late hops be the interesting components of the beer, 3711 leaves a nice impression of body even with a FG sub 1.005.


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## Damn (12/11/15)

6 Potato cakes, 5 fried dim sims, hot dog in batter, $5 of chips and a diet coke.


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## JDW81 (12/11/15)

Damn said:


> 6 Potato cakes, 5 fried dim sims, hot dog in batter, $5 of chips and a diet coke.


High fat and high carb.


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## technobabble66 (12/11/15)

I'd go with what Galbrew and Charst mentioned. 
Mash low and long. 
Use high attenuating yeasts - namely Belgian yeasts, as the extra flavour they add compensate for having a lighter body. And they're just awesome!

I wonder if using a little oats, rye or wheat might help add body without increasing the carb level too much - from extra proteins and gums (sort of carbs unfortunately). 

So a nice Ale+Wheat+Rye Belgian saison mashed at 62-3*c for 70mins, plus at 20min step at 72*C. Fermented at >25*c. 
Yum. O.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (12/11/15)

Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it. It has the gears turning in my head of how to attack it. Cheers!


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## Bribie G (12/11/15)

75K ??? sheeeyuutt :blink: 

Before and after photos or it didn't happen


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## Blind Dog (12/11/15)

Don't suppose you like cider? Just a thought. 

Otherwise I'd be thinking saison as a fairly obvious choice.

And congrats on the weight loss. If it works for you, it works for you


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## Danscraftbeer (12/11/15)

With no additives in mind I tried to make an all grain light beer. Target was 3.5% and low carb. OG = 1.040 (higher than expected) It finished at 1.002. (lower than expected) Not as to plan but a low carb 5% beer and it was quaffable/ gulpable :chug:The yeast was a dry sachet (common shelf home brew kit stuff) oh stuff it! It was Coopers Dry Yeast! recycled from a previous brew that worked well. One of those one off things maybe. I'll have to try it again sometime. It was a light grain bill. Mash started at 64c to 60c over 3 hours. Sparged well with Melbourne tap water and no additives at all. It was when I was very newbie to all grain. Just sharing notes here on the surbject. B)


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## roastinrich (12/11/15)

I d also recommend wyeast 3711 yeast as is consumes a scheiße load of fermentables. Add some extra rye and late hops to the mix and you end up with with more body extra flavour and low carbs. WIN WIN. Caveat - need to appreciate Belgian Phenolics.


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## Alchomist (13/11/15)

How does one measure the carb content?

I'd like to see a low carb recipe if anyone has one.


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## JDW81 (13/11/15)

Alchomist said:


> How does one measure the carb content?
> 
> I'd like to see a low carb recipe if anyone has one.


On a home-brew scale it would be nigh on impossible to quantify the total sugar/carbohydrate content of a beer. You'd basically be making assumptions based on OG, FG and alcohol content.

As mentioned above, going for a low carb home brew would involve mashing at a low temp for 90-120 minutes then fermenting with a high attenuating yeast to convert those fermentables into ETHOH. 

JD


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## TheWiggman (13/11/15)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Didn't want to go off onto a tangent but maybe it will explain why I am interested in making my own low carb beer! It's gotta taste better than Bigheads, surely!


That shouldn't be too hard 
Ultimately low carb will be low FG. Considering the weight loss journey are you interested in doing a mid strength? A dry mid strength will by its very nature have low carbs, and it you'll achieve a lower FG with a low SG. That being said, a flavoursome low gravity/%ABV is hard to achieve - you can't just throw more hops in and get a balanced beer.
I agree with the above posters about using a Belgian yeast. Wyeast 3787 produces loads of flavour, ferments like it's D-day and finishes low. A Patersbier using 100% pils, 17 IBU of Saaz and late Hallertau will give you a very tasty beer.


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## Leviathan (13/11/15)

I tried keto for a month, dropped an easy 10kg with zero exercise or starvation but couldn't continue having nothing but bigheads beer forever. Great work on the loss mate.


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## pat_00 (13/11/15)

I'm a type one diabetic, and I can tell you from the effect on my blood glucose that carbs in beer vary a lot. Especially in ales. I find that out of my homebrews, the saison I make is probably the lowest carb.

I've made it around 4.3% as well and it came out good.

In general I'd rather have one real beer than five low carb beers, so I just do that if I'm being healthy.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (14/11/15)

Bribie G said:


> 75K ??? sheeeyuutt :blink:
> 
> Before and after photos or it didn't happen


Hi Bribie, long time no talk, hope you are well!  From memory you moved down south from Bribie Island?







I am 10.5kg down from when I was wearing the yellow shirt.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (14/11/15)

Leviathan said:


> I tried keto for a month, dropped an easy 10kg with zero exercise or starvation but couldn't continue having nothing but bigheads beer forever. Great work on the loss mate.


Great to hear mate, well done!

It's got like that for me as well. I even considered getting some Galaxy hops from CBer and putting them into my bigheads lol! 

This thread has been great! Thanks so much, plenty to take on board and plan the first brew! A lot of me getting back into it is being able to enjoy the process of making beer now with more time and space on my hands! Cheers men!


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## Aus_Rider_22 (14/11/15)

Blind Dog said:


> Don't suppose you like cider? Just a thought.
> 
> Otherwise I'd be thinking saison as a fairly obvious choice.
> 
> And congrats on the weight loss. If it works for you, it works for you


I don't mind it at all  Do you have a dry and low carb recipe? Plus the gf drinks cider and if I can brew something we can both enjoy even better!  Thanks mate.


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## JDW81 (14/11/15)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Hi Bribie, long time no talk, hope you are well!  From memory you moved down south from Bribie Island?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Super effort mate. Plenty of people talk about losing weight, but few actually do it. I take my hat off to you.

I hope you can keep it off.

As for a good dry cider recipe, it is really easy.

Get yourself 20L of preservative free apple juice and dump into a fermenter. Boil a cinnamon stick, 5 cloves and 1/2 tsp of nutmeg in 300mLs of water and chuck in with the apple juice. Ferment with either a champagne yeast or wyeast cider #4766 for a minimum of 4 weeks. It will finish close to 1000, be nice and dry and have a lovely little hint of spice. Carbonate to about 3 volumes and you'll have refreshing summer drink. If the GF likes it a bit sweeter, you can add ~100mL of apple juice to the glass and top off with cider. Bloody lovely.

JD


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## salty dog (2/4/19)

Hopefully reviving this thread a bit, I'm in a similar situation - nowhere near as much weight loss as Aus_Rider, only 19 kgs but before starting on a ketogenic diet I got some blood tests & found that I had type 2 diabetes & a bit fatty liver.

One month into keto the blood markers for fatty liver were OK, 3 months in the diabetes was officially in remission - can't necessarily claim cured but at the least managed.

I haven't been doing homebrew since I was on keto but will do a bit for my son's 18th.

Before keto, I was into making small batches of all grain.

Apart from mash temperature & late hop additions, does anyone have any tips?
* Highly attenuative yeast strains, (anyone been brave enough to try champagne yeast in beer?)
* Highly attenuative yeast strains that might add some interesting flavours - not into classic Belgium light beer flavours but do like some lambic/sours
* Enzyme additions that will reduce residual carbs beyond careful mash manipulation
* Any odd adjuncts that may alter mouthfeel a bit without upping the carbs - maybe give the illusion of more complexity than there is?
* Any adjuncts/methods that might help with head retention whilst still keeping the carbs low.

Just fishing for ideas at the moment.

I'm willing to experiment with other adjuncts for flavouring as well, especially if someone out there has already had good success, whether it be herbs, spices, zest of fruit.

Another thing I was wondering is if anyone has had a good solid crack at trying to get the carbs way down on a brown or dark beer & if you had much success.

I like the brewing hobby but have to really keep the carbs out of my life as much as possible for health reasons.

Any tips or ideas would be appreciated.

If this turns out to be a dead thread I might try & start up a new one.

Thanks in advance to the boozy brains trust.


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## wide eyed and legless (2/4/19)

You have the kilojoules in alcohol aside from the sugar content, one way of looking at it is you have to die of something, may as well be something you enjoy.
https://livelighter.com.au/news/Is-...for-you-New-analysis-shows-its-a-big-fat-myth


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## floppy (2/4/19)

If you want to keep the carbs out of a brew you could try Beano's these contain a compound called amyloglucosidase (AMG) which will break down the unfermentable carb's. US commercial brewerys use amyloglucosidase as a way to lower carb's also produce a lower ABV beer (Miller Lite). It might pay to look in to this as well.


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## salty dog (2/4/19)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You have the kilojoules in alcohol aside from the sugar content, one way of looking at it is you have to die of something, may as well be something you enjoy.
> https://livelighter.com.au/news/Is-...for-you-New-analysis-shows-its-a-big-fat-myth



Yeah, can live with the kilojoules no problem & well aware that kilojoules per gram in alcohol are higher than carbs, (27 for alcohol, 16 for carbs from memory). 

Have had the same sorts of conversations in a previous iteration with guys telling them not to worry about carbs in terms of kilojoules. Unfortunately, the kilojoules in, kilojoules out model doesn't hold up when real science holds a light up to it. There are some very important hormonal pathways that get neglected.

The carbs are a big problems for me. I was already insulin resistant/type 2 diabetic, don't know how long for or how much damage might have been done to my pancreas. If carbs weren't a problem for me, I wouldn't be thinking low carb beers as I can't say that I have ever had one that excited me - hopefully just because it was the big boys pumping out blandness.

It's similar to my diet. There might be foods that I really enjoyed before but with the benefit of hindsight can see that they made me fat & unhealthy. Once in a blue moon I might indulge but for the most part I have to refrain.

I still have the very occasional beer but the carb content pushes me away from it which is a pity because I enjoyed the taste of beer & the creative side of making beer.

Distilled drinks that haven't been back-sweetened are still a viable option for social drinks. I just don't find them as much fun.

Hopefully someone else out there has had some similar experience, knows that they need to dodge the carbs & has experimented a bit already. Was hoping to try & avoid some of the pitfalls that people may have already come across when brewing low carb. Having a few low carb successes early on would encourage me to keep brewing as a hobby.


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## malt and barley blues (2/4/19)

Have you looked at exercise? I have got a book on the Ketogenic diet, and I have also read an article which I will source out for you or you may find it by googling memory genes I think it was.
Paleo man was a mover, followed the food, when we became farmers we developed the memory gene which stored fat for the times of famine. As famine at the moment is not an issue no one has told our bodies that so the fat is still stored leading to obesity.


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## salty dog (2/4/19)

malt and barley blues said:


> Have you looked at exercise? I have got a book on the Ketogenic diet, and I have also read an article which I will source out for you or you may find it by googling memory genes I think it was.
> Paleo man was a mover, followed the food, when we became farmers we developed the memory gene which stored fat for the times of famine. As famine at the moment is not an issue no one has told our bodies that so the fat is still stored leading to obesity.



Yeah, looked at exercise. By all accounts good for your health but not very effective compared to diet for diabetes, etc. Case in point, Professor Timothy Noakes who managed to give himself type 2 diabetes whilst running marathons regularly.

If I am lucky, I give my pancreas a bit of a break with keto & I recover to something like normal tolerance for carbohydrates but still have to be careful. Worse case, too much damage to my pancreas already to fully recover. At least it is something that can be managed. 

My Dad has had type 2 for a while to the point where he was on multiple drugs including insulin. He is on keto too now & even as far gone as he was, his blood glucose has come down, medication reduced, lost weight, etc.

If diabetes ever becomes something that you need to deal with yourself, there are plenty of good Youtube videos with the explanations of the metabolic pathways involved. A good channel to start with is Lowcarbdownunder - motivated doctors/professors, etc.


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## salty dog (3/4/19)

floppy said:


> If you want to keep the carbs out of a brew you could try Beano's these contain a compound called amyloglucosidase (AMG) which will break down the unfermentable carb's.  US commercial brewerys use amyloglucosidase as a way to lower carb's also produce a lower ABV beer (Miller Lite). It might pay to look in to this as well.



Thanks floppy. I'll be sure to check that out.

That's the sort of information I am after as sad as it sounds to be trying to break down the carbs that give character.


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## salty dog (25/5/19)

Interesting beer experiment that gives me more hope for good flavour with reduced carbs:
http://brulosophy.com/2018/09/17/the-beano-effect-exbeeriment-results/


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## MHB (25/5/19)

You can get "Dry Enzyme" from most home brew retailers.
This is a type of Amylase (there are hundreds of different Amylases) cropped from bacteria. It will given time breakdown all the complex sugars in a beer.
Can be added to the ferment, remember that it will keep producing fermentable sugars long after your normal FG has been reached, plan to extend you fermentation time or you can end up with bottle bombs.
Can be added to the mash, unlike the Alpha and Beta Amylase in malt it will keep working up to somewhere near 90oC but it will be denatured in the kettle. Used in the mash it will significantly lower the amount of "carbs" in the wort, but wont extend fermentation time.

You can also do a lot with mash times and temperatures, worth noting that the pH optimum for Beta Amylase is a little lower than that for Alpha, the optimum for a couple of the other enzymes that could benefit a low carb brew are even lower.
This from Braukaiser is about the best way I have seen to look at it.





Most of the mouth feel and head retention in beer comes from Protein in solution, with a bit of care you could increase the concentration of beneficial proteins to compensate to some extent for the reduced sugars.
Take a bit of thinking about but a bit of mash time spent at protein reducing temperatures should increase the amount of low molecular weight proteins. Back in the old days this would have been easy, with modern very precisely malted grain, its harder to control the result of mash profile adjustments (easier to make consistent "typical" beer) which is mostly a good thing.

Personally I would choose to drink less of better beer over more of something I enjoy less - if that makes sense.
Mark


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## Eats shop (26/10/20)

Did anyone get a good low carb beer recipe? 
I'm on ketosis at the moment and want to continue the low carb way for some time. 
Got another 6 kg to loose before goal weight  
Cheers.


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## yankinoz (27/10/20)

To ketosers:

Saison from base malt, maybe wheat malt, a little sugar if you like thin beers, no caramel malt. Saison yeasts attentuate highly. If you're not a fan of saisons, ferment at the very bottom of the recommended range or a degree lower, raise after a few days to finish. After twenty litres you'll acclimatise. You like hops? Use Mandarina Bavaria or Hallertau Blanc instead of noble hops.

When I read about ketosis, I get, in the words of the great American philosopher and former New York Yankees coach Casey Stengel, déja vu all over again. The Atkins diet, the alleged Paleo diet, and now ketosis. The rationale may vary, and ketosis gets the most believable one, but high protein and low carbs are consistent. The challenge is keeping the weight off over a year or more.

Paleo diet is a misnomer. It´s more like arctic diet. Most of the evolution of modern humans went on in latitudes where even ice age climates provided plenty of vegetal foods and carbs. Evidence has much improved from the days when tooth wear was all we had to reconstruct diets. It looks like meat and in places fish or shellfish usually made up the majority of intake but apart from high latitudes they weren´t all or nearly all of it. And everyone who forages loves honey and sweet fruits.

I´m an anthropologist, not a medical doctor, but I´ll go so far as to suggest that you get information on the keto diet from neutral sources and even critics in the medical community, rather than follow a trail of links left by enthusiasts and salespeople. And consult with a knowledgeable doctor. The argument for ketosis in diabetics is on its face especially strong, but so are the risks. Consult.

One published and peer-reviewed 25-year study of people on very low-carb diets found a four-year loss in life expectancy: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext


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