# Back From Deutschland!



## newguy (12/10/10)

About a month ago I posted about my (then pending) trip to Europe. I survived. Barely.

Thursday September 23, 4:00am, Edmonton. Alarm woke us up as we had an 8am flight to Minneapolis and we wanted to be early because US customs in our airport is known to be slow. We arrived in Minneapolis just before noon so we decided to have a bite to eat and a beer:







Sam Adams Oktoberfest, actually. Nothing to write home about. Way too hoppy to be an authentic facsimile of the real thing.

Had more time to kill before our flight to Amsterdam, so stopped by Rock Bottom for a couple:











We had a pint of the Bighorn Nut Brown Ale and the Singletrack Copper Ale. Both were pretty good, but not the best I've ever had.


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## newguy (12/10/10)

Friday, ~11:30am, Munich. Couldn't check in to our hotel just yet (room wasn't ready) so we dropped off our bags and headed right to the Theresienwiese (park where Oktoberfest is held) and had a look around. Even at this hour every hall was full and almost every beer garden too. Luckily the Hofbrauhaus' garden wasn't full so we took advantage of the great weather (~23C and sunny) and great atmosphere.

Me enjoying a fantastic mas (measure) of beer:





The menu:





And several shots of the inside of the beer hall:






There are hops everywhere in Germany, particularly in beer halls and restaurants. You can see lots of them here.






I bought a Sony NEX-5 just for the trip and it has a fantastic sweep panorama feature. However, it doesn't work that well when lots of people are moving around. Still, it helps to give you a sense of scale.






Our hotel was right across the street from the hauptbaunhof (central train station) and literally within crawling distance of Oktoberfest. Although this seemed like a good idea, the noise from the street was understandably very high. This broken office chair brought a lot of enjoyment to many drunks while we were in Munich.


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## newguy (12/10/10)

Saturday, Munich. After going to Schloss Nymphenberg (summer getaway palace for the Bavarian royals, all of about 10km from their official residence) in the morning, we explored the altstadt (old town) a bit. For the scotch lovers among us, I found the place for you:











The leather case in the middle had several golden goblets, plenty of scotch, and all in a convenient carrying case. All for only $1100 euros. What a bargain.  

My cousin lives just south of Munich and she and her husband took us to supper at Zum Durnbrau, a restaurant in the altstadt that's been in business since 1487!






The food was great and the place was packed. Can't remember what beer they had - I just remember having a very nice Dunkles.

After supper they showed us around a bit. This is the Bavarian royal family's "normal" palace.






The only reason I took this picture is that it's the view from the park right across from the palace above where I took a leak. Hey, my cousin-in-law did it too!


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## newguy (12/10/10)

Sunday, ~3pm, Dusseldorf. This was the most fun I had on my trip. Dusseldorf, for some strange reason, reminded me of Saskatoon (which is almost my home town - close enough anyway). This was the view from the front step of our hotel, where just up the street the Bierbrauerei Ferd. Schumacher is located.






In general, all the Dusseldorf Alts are attention grabbers. Imagine your wife seductively reaching down and grabbing you -there- and you're thinking 'this will be fun' then she gives your balls a good squeeze; not enough to hurt, but definitely to get your full attention. That's what Dusseldorf Alt is like. A seductively perfumelike low hoppy aroma - you think 'this is going to be good' then when you take a sip, the assertive hop flavour and bitterness get your full attention - and respect. None of the Alts I tried had any resemblence of sweetness at all - very, very dry - with an aggressive hop profile. What blew me away was how different they all were. One was roasty, one was chocolatey, another was across-the-board subdued, still another peaty (really, peaty!).






My wife doing her best to feign interest:






Our waiter, sporting the standard long blue apron, and dispensing beer from a real oak barrel:






A better view of the front of the brewery from under the awning.






Check out the detail in the side door to the place. No mistaking what kind of business this door belongs to!


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## newguy (12/10/10)

From here we wandered into the altstadt and stumbled upon Zum Schiffchen first.






This was a lovely place and we sat down to eat before the supper rush, all the while enjoying a heavenly glass (or 5) of Frankenheim Alt.
















I believe I was trying to think of a way to swim in a vat of this stuff...






We had the best meal of our lives here. Since we were unsure of exactly how to put our thoughts into German, we asked our waiter if he spoke English. He did not. Our one regret of the trip was that we couldn't tell the staff or chef how good the meal was. Then on our way out, we found out why the food was so good:






Two Michelin stars. That explains it.


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## newguy (12/10/10)

From there it was only a block to our next conquest, Uerige. This is the outdoor portion of the brewery, located just across the street from the brewery itself.





















From there we wandered down the street to find the next Alt brewery and we happened upon this oddity. Keep this -customerless- photo in mind in case someone tries to get you to invest in an Irish pub in Germany. Every Irish or English pub we passed on our trip was empty.






My next target, Zum Schlussel (the key).






The locals were great but the sight of a tall idiot tourist taking pictures of beer was a bit amusing to them.






The next place we stopped at for a beer - even though we had already sampled the Schumacher Alt, I still wanted to stop.











I honestly could not have been more happy at this point.


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## newguy (12/10/10)

And our final Alt brewery of the day, Brauerei Im Fuchschen (the small fox). Notice the young parents enjoying a beer with their toddler and baby. Stuff like that just doesn't happen here (and that's a shame).






This was the Alt that had a peatiness to it, and it was damn good.






Jealous yet?  






This was a really cool poster above the window. Rough translation is as follows:



> Stop! Consumption Control Zone!
> Know what to drink? No? May we suggest the Fuchschen on Ratinger Street.
> Drivers, please be careful as too many small cheers may lead to a small cell!








On the way back to the hotel we passed by a little hole-in-the-wall beer shop and these 3 came out to $3.50 euro. If I could find them here, I guarantee they'd be at least $9 each.






I also tied into this Doppelbock that Nicole found for me in Munich:


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## newguy (12/10/10)

Monday, Koln (Cologne), ~10am. This is the view from the front door of our hotel.






Lunch time, so we stopped at Gaffel.






This is the interior of the pub/restaurant:






The tanks were purely decorative.






Kolsch, in Koln, is nothing like the homebrewed Kolsch I've judged or brewed myself. It's a distant cousin to Dusseldorf Alt in that it's very very dry as with Alt, but it's all around more subdued and lacks the darker malts that give Alt its colour. I was taken by the winey/vinous aroma in all the samples I tried. Homebrewed examples almost always lack this character. As it turns out, this was the last time I felt fine in Europe.






A young couple sat down next to us in Gaffel and while we were making the effort to speak German, not only did they not bother, but the "gentleman" was stupid enough to ask the waiter what kinds of beer they had. Mistake number one, not trying to speak the native tongue. Mistake number two (and worse), asking what kinds of beer they serve in a place that serves just one. While the waiter couldn't do enough for us, he largely ignored/scorned them. ...And they were from Michigan (we asked). And we weren't really surprised.


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## newguy (12/10/10)

Later on in the day, after exploring the Dom (the huge cathedral), we stopped at Fruh.
















Right after this was taken I went back to the hotel and laid down. Thus began my food poisoning ordeal. Delta airlines fed me chicken on the flight to Amsterdam and it damn near killed me. More on this later. About supper time my wife hauled me out of bed to see the Roman ruins just down the street from our hotel. On the way back we stopped at Sion, since it was just across the street from where we were staying. I didn't feel like drinking but I felt I had to.






I was starting to look a bit green/pale here. It was raining and I wore a cap. That's the door beside me. I was taught/raised to take my cap off in a building and I did when we sat down here. There was a group of older men just kitty-corner across from us and when they got up to leave, they made a point to say goodbye to us. I have a hunch it's because I removed my cap. The Germans are very polite and value politeness in others.






Just before we left they winched a fresh keg up from the basement.






This was Monday evening and the beginning of my "squirting across Europe" adventure. That night I hardly slept between getting up every 30 minutes to take a dump and the fever-induced hallucinations I was having when I was able to get to sleep.


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## newguy (12/10/10)

Tuesday, Brussels.

In the morning we took a train to Brussels and I surprised myself by making it almost the whole way there without having to go. When we arrived we dropped our bags at the hotel (room wasn't ready yet) and I beelined it to a pharmacy next door. I managed to convey to the French-speaking proprietor that I had squirt-ass and he gave me some pills for nausea. Which did nothing to help, by the way.

From there we wandered around and noted, with curiosity, razor wire barricades everywhere. We thought them odd but didn't think too much of them. Anyway, at this point my pledge to eat only what the locals eat was shot right to hell and we stopped by a McDonald's. I wasn't hungry but I knew that I had to choke something - anything - down, and I knew what rotten ronnie's food was like. I didn't manage to choke everything down without having to go again. The attendant (virually all washrooms in Europe have an attendant) ushered me into the women's side. I wasn't about to argue - this was urgent! On the way back to the hotel we stopped for an authentic Belgian waffle from some hole-in-the wall vendor. If you've never had one, you have no idea what you're missing. Go out of your way to find one if you're in Belgium.

We got back to the hotel where I stayed. Nicole explored Brussels all by herself. I was too sick/scared to be more than 3m from a toilet.

Tuesday night I literally soaked the bed and covers with sweat - no lie, I could wring them out. During the night I also started passing blood and I decided that in the morning I had to be hospitalized. I've had food poisoning before, but not like this. In the morning Nicole went down for breakfast and she asked the front desk attendant how to say food poisoning in French. Empoisonement if you're curious. He gave us a map with the location of the nearest hospital, only about 15-20 minutes by foot. We set off about 8:30am and I managed to make it there without having to go. I still don't know how, but I wasn't about to look a gift horse in the mouth.

We went through the nearest door and there happened to be an information desk right there. The lady behind the desk spoke a little English, but she waved down a different lady who spoke much more English than she did. She escorted us to the emergency admission desk and explained to them, in French, what was wrong with me. They took us in no more than 20 minutes later and a parade of doctors and nurses (every one of them female - I've never seen so many women doctors in my life) examined me and got my story. Tiny bits at a time, mind you, because not many of them speak English and I don't speak French so this experience was interesting.

5 hours later and an English speaking intern (perfect English) and another doctor (French only) give me the verdict. It's an extremely severe case of gastroenteritis (blanket term for food poisoning as they didn't know the bacteria responsible just yet), and it's migrated to my bloodstream already. They were surprised I was still able to walk. If we weren't going to be traveling to Amsterdam the following day, they wouldn't have let me go. They prescribed horsepill antibiotics and another pill to relieve squirtass and sent me on my way.

Now it's time to pay. Nicole and I are counting our cash and if it's less than 300 euros we'll pay cash, and if it's more I'll put it on my mastercard. The total? $24.01 euros. Expensive.  

So we exit the hospital. This is a totally different side than the one we entered and we're a bit lost, so we just started walking counterclockwise around the hospital, looking for a landmark we recognise. As we're walking we're hearing drums, whistles, horns, and firecrackers. And they're getting louder. Then we round a corner and we're in the midst of all these orange jacket wearing assholes carrying plackards and hollering, blowing whistles and horns, beating drums, and throwing firecrackers. We can't get away from them - they're on the same street we need to take back to our hotel. Then the razor wire made sense. Now accompanied by riot police. And those really cool water cannon armoured tanks.

About a block after joining these people, there's a pharmacy and luckily for us the demonstrators crossed over to the other side of the boulevard just before that. Even more lucky for me, the pharmacist spoke perfect English. Another $33-something euros for the meds and we were off.

We made it back to our street and it's naturally blocked off by razor wire and riot police shoulder-to-shoulder and two deep. Across the street the jackasses with the horns and whistles are now tossing ******* mortars, not firecrackers, and the police are a bit on edge. Our hotel was just the second building in from the corner but we couldn't get to it. So we pulled out our passports and in our best (worst?) French managed to convey to them that 1) we were harmless and 2) we just wanted to get to our hotel. So they let us pass. We found out from the news that night that Brussels had 100,000 protesters from across Europe who were demonstrating their displeasure at government cutbacks.

Thursday we caught our final train to Amsterdam and even though I wasn't 100%, I still managed to enjoy our short time there. Friday we flew back.

A short trip, but the good parts, prior to getting sick greatly outweighed the crappy parts (sitting on a Belgian throne for 2 days straight). Germany was the most fun I've ever had and the locals were the best. If you make an effort to speak German, they'll bend over backwards for you. The beer was the best I've ever had, and if given the chance I'll definitely go again. Oktoberfest was an experience, but it's definitely meant for younger people. Not that 40 year olds aren't welcome, but I just don't have the energy of a 25 year old anymore.

Sorry for the long post. Hope you enjoyed reading about my misadventures! :beer:


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## Shed101 (12/10/10)

newguy said:


> Imagine your wife seductively reaching down and grabbing you -there- and you're thinking 'this will be fun' then she gives your balls a good squeeze; not enough to hurt, but definitely to get your full attention. That's what Dusseldorf Alt is like. A seductively perfumelike low hoppy aroma - you think 'this is going to be good' then when you take a sip, the assertive hop flavour and bitterness get your full attention - and respect.



Blimey ... that's one of the best descriptions of a beer i've ever read! :lol: 

And, Michelin Fuhrer ... were they Hitler's choice of tyres?

Great write up, and i haven't even read it all yet.


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## Newbiebrewer (12/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> Blimey ... that's one of the best descriptions of a beer i've ever read! :lol:
> 
> And, Michelin Fuhrer ... were they Hitler's choice of tyres?
> 
> Great write up, and i haven't even read it all yet.



Damn I was gonna make that joke :angry: but damn sounds like fun except for the gastro, might see if I can get placed there on exchange when I goto Uni h34r:


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## jbirbeck (12/10/10)

great write up...I've been to Germany a couple of times but not had the pleasure of doing Koln or Dusseldorf. I'm convinced now I must go back and do the Alt and Kolsch tasting...

hopefully that brown run has disappeared and things have 'firmed' up...


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## outbreak (12/10/10)

Their Piazza's are awesome, oh I wish our urban planners realized these countries had it right years ago....


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## MarkBastard (12/10/10)

Nice thread mate.


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## RobB (12/10/10)

Thanks for a great read. You're right - if you just learn 'yes', 'no', 'please' and 'thank you' when you visit a new country, you'll receive a much warmer welcome.

Brussels was also the scene for my worst ever case of food poisoning. Brussels is famous for mussels, so I enjoyed them several times. In hindsight, eating filter feeders from Europe's most densely populated coast was probably an error in judgement.


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## Screwtop (12/10/10)

Eerrrrr!............................................................Wow!

Thats all I have! :super:

Screwy


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## razz (12/10/10)

What a great read, sorry to hear about you tummy bug newguy. My favourite line has to be " I didn't feel like drinking but felt I had to" :lol:


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## Jazman (12/10/10)

great pics the frueh joint accross the dom is a good place had a few myself last year


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## pk.sax (12/10/10)

bravo! good on you for doing a great job of having an awesome time 
I wish I was as beer educated when I went there. hehe. Great job blending in and being a bit local. You make me an insanely jealous fool ATM (except the food poisoning )

simple awesome


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## chillimunga (12/10/10)

Great stuff mate and great pics as well just got back from Germany my self, best 3 weeks eva. Loved koln stayed in the hotel next door to the Gaffel house it was very convenient.Nothing like beer out of the barrel.


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## AussieJosh (12/10/10)

good post mate! I really enjoyed the read and the pics! Good to hear your illness was not to serious!


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## keifer33 (12/10/10)

Great read a fair few laughs...some at your expense


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## Zwickel (13/10/10)

Thanks a lot NewGuy for the nice report, its a pleasure reading it.

I hope you havent cought "Montezumas Revenge" already in Germany, hopefully not in the restaurant featured with the Michelin star :wacko: 

Prost mate


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## white.grant (13/10/10)

Great story Newguy. Really enjoyed reading it. 

cheers

grant


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## Jerry (13/10/10)

Great thread newguy.

Thanks very much for taking the time to write it up. :beerbang: 

Hope you're over the food poisoning.

Cheers

Scott


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## Florian (13/10/10)

Great read, really enjoyed it. Especially the Kln part made me wish I had paid a bit more attention to the beers when I used to live there for 2 years. Not that I didn't drink enough of them... just didn't appreciate them enough in hind side.

Loved the atmosphere there, a great city to live, and I will be taking my family there for a little round trip on our next visit to Berlin.

Florian


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## newguy (14/10/10)

Glad everyone seemed to enjoy the report. Just remembered a couple of random things. It seems it's impossible to get everything down in a post all at once....

The wooden pub/brewery tables in Dusseldorf and Koln were notable because they were all the same. They weren't finished - no oil/stain/polyurethane, etc - and most seemed to be freshly sanded. Thus the coasters seemed to serve a dual purpose: the waiters kept track of how many you had by putting a pencil mark on the coaster and they actually did serve to protect the unfinished surface. Around here all the tables are finished and coasters are rarely used. We found this odd for establishments where the patrons do tend to spill...

When we did arrive in Munich we had been up for about 24h straight. The beer tasted good but boy did we get tired after a few litres of the stuff. While we were at the Hofbrauhaus beer garden I managed to make a bit of a spectacle of myself. Not only are there waitresses everywhere, but there are also vendors walking around selling sandwiches, sausages, etc from big boxes suspended on a strap over their shoulders. After simply holding up my hand and shaking my head no for the first few, the beer encouraged me to use the little bit of German I learned just for the trip. Upon seeing yet another headed my way, I held up my hand and in a loud voice said "Ich habe kein hunger." [I'm not hungry.] In hindsight, a simple "Nein, danke" would have sufficed. Anyway, the vendor takes the hint and buggers off but the young couple at the next table start giggling at me, which causes me to start laughing because I probably sounded like a complete moron. They made a point of saying a cheerful "Tchuss" [bye] when they left so I guess I couldn't have made that big a fool out of myself.

Also at Oktoberfest, a group of older men sat at the table behind us and we eventually heard them talking about us (at least we assume so because we heard "Canada.") After that one of them eventually asked if we were Canadian, so we replied that we were (in German, mind you), and then they asked if we were from Montreal. This was the first of 4 times we were asked if we from Montreal while we were in Europe. Now normally this is a huge insult to us western Canadians but we knew they didn't know that so we just told them that we were from Alberta - Edmonton. They seemed to know where that was, which greatly impressed us ["West?" "Ja!"].

A little after this we decided to get a giant pretzel but we had no idea if they were actually called pretzels or not. Our little German phrase book didn't have them in it either, so we asked this same group what they were called. They immediately called a waitress over and told her to bring us one, which we greatly appreciated. Unfortunately we still didn't know their proper German name. 

The security guards at the Oktoberfest pavilions are generally quite humourless and very business-like, but even they enjoyed the occasional beer whilst on duty. We got a big kick out of that.

Teams of 5-10 people are a common sight at Oktoberfest. The matching shirts give them away. The organizational skills this requires, especially of a bunch of inebriated individuals, is impressive. And even though I don't speak Italian, I got the drift of one young Italian gentleman's wording on the back of his shirt.....It involved him doing something vulgar to my mother, and I definitely understood that. Some phrases are universal.

From our observations, there are precisely three people in Europe that don't smoke.

In German elevators, 0 = lobby/main floor, and -1 = basement. I found that very amusing. Almost as amusing as the little sign you hang on your hotel room's doorknob to request that your room be cleaned. In German they read "Bitte Zimmer Aufraumen." Now "bitte" is please, "zimmer" is room, and although I don't exactly know what "Aufraumen" means, I can't help but notice that it contains "Frau" which, naturally, is woman. I really got a kick out of "Please make up room now" appearing just under what I translate to be "Please womanize the room."

The taxi drivers in Europe are completely insane. Fun, but insane.

A lot of young Canadians work in Amsterdam. Sort of like how Banff here in Canada contains a lot of young Australians.

The homeless in Europe are way more polite than the homeless here in Canada. Actually the homeless here border on being muggers with the manner they approach people.

...That's all I can remember for now. I know once I hit "Add Reply" I'll think of something I've missed.... <_<


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## stm (14/10/10)

A great read, thanks newguy. Must get to Koln and Dusseldorf...


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## pk.sax (14/10/10)

Those are spelled 'brezen'. Although, if you say pretzel they usually understand. Close enough sounding, like Pfeffer for pepper.


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## Zwickel (15/10/10)

newguy said:


> Glad everyone seemed to enjoy the report. Just remembered a couple of random things. It seems it's impossible to get everything down in a post all at once....
> 
> The wooden pub/brewery tables in Dusseldorf and Koln were notable because they were all the same. They weren't finished - no oil/stain/polyurethane, etc - and most seemed to be freshly sanded. Thus the coasters seemed to serve a dual purpose: the waiters kept track of how many you had by putting a pencil mark on the coaster and they actually did serve to protect the unfinished surface.



yeah, thats right. In Germany it would be a PITA to pay instantly for each drink you get, means thats a waste of time/ressources. The coaster everyone gets, is a bill as well. Everything that youre consuming whilst youre in the location, will be written on the coaster and should be payed when you leave. Some customers even leave their bill in the pub until next time, means they are living on credit.




> ..... The beer tasted good but boy did we get tired after a few litres of the stuff.



after a few liters I wouldnt be tired only 




> ......I held up my hand and in a loud voice said "Ich habe kein hunger." [I'm not hungry.] In hindsight, a simple "Nein, danke" would have sufficed. Anyway, the vendor takes the hint and buggers off but the young couple at the next table start giggling at me, which causes me to start laughing because I probably sounded like a complete moron.



:lol: 

To say "Ich habe kein hunger." [I'm not hungry.] is deeply dialectical. Thats why they were giggling. The most of German say so, although it is grammattically completely wrong. The right words would be "Ich bin nicht hungrig"......but 90% of the German are using the wrong version.



> They made a point of saying a cheerful "Tchuss" [bye] when they left so I guess I couldn't have made that big a fool out of myself.



Dont worry, to hear such dialectical words from a foreigner is just a little bit funny.




> ....A little after this we decided to get a giant pretzel but we had no idea if they were actually called pretzels or not. Our little German phrase book didn't have them in it either, so we asked this same group what they were called. They immediately called a waitress over and told her to bring us one, which we greatly appreciated. Unfortunately we still didn't know their proper German name.



Pretzel (english) = Bretzel (german) almost the same pronunciation.




> ....In German elevators, 0 = lobby/main floor, and -1 = basement. I found that very amusing.



thats logical: Zero level is flat to the earth/street, minus 1 is cellar or even lower like -2 or -3 




> Almost as amusing as the little sign you hang on your hotel room's doorknob to request that your room be cleaned. In German they read "Bitte Zimmer Aufraumen." Now "bitte" is please, "zimmer" is room, and although I don't exactly know what "Aufraumen" means, I can't help but notice that it contains "Frau" which, naturally, is woman. I really got a kick out of "Please make up room now" appearing just under what I translate to be "Please womanize the room."


 :lol:

Aufraumen hahahaha.... never had such a good laugh 

correct: aufrumen "make up the room"


Thanks again Newguy, its a wonderful report :icon_chickcheers:


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## manticle (15/10/10)

Good descriptions - hope your guts are all good now.

Zwickel - OT but do you have any tips or recipes for good altbier? About to make smurto's effort this weekend but curious about your perspective.


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## newguy (15/10/10)

If you're after an authentic Dusseldorf Alt, I can help you out.

Grist: prior to my trip I would have used quite a bit (up to 30-40%) of Munich malt but now that I've tasted authentic stuff, that should be cut back to maybe 5% at most with the balance being either pilsner malt (preferred) or pale 2 row. Add just enough dark malt (either carafa or pale chocolate or chocolate or even roasted barley) to get the authentic colour (orange to copper). My gut tells me that you shouldn't need more than 60g for a 20l batch, but use some brewing s/w to calculate the right amount for the target colour. From the flavours I was getting in the Alts I tried, any of these dark malts would be appropriate. Even a touch of peated malt would be okay as Fuchschen was a tad peaty.

Mash at a very low temperature to create a very fermentable wort - the finished beer has to be dry dry dry. 62-63C wouldn't be too low. Shoot for a 1.050ish OG.

Dusseldorf Alts feature the bittering and flavour hop additions. There is some small amount of hop aroma, but it's low. Shoot for 40-45 IBU total, with roughly 60-70% coming from the bittering addition and the balance from a 20 minute flavour addition. Throw in maybe 30g of a noble variety at flameout to get the low aroma. Even though the bitterness is very assertive, it's also very clean. Don't use american varieties to bitter or flavour this beer unless they're one of the american "noble" varieties like Crystal or Mt Hood.

Use a very attenuative Alt/Kolsch strain. Wyeast 2565 would be ideal, but keep the temperature on the low side - no more than maybe 18-19C to keep the esters very low. Also be sure to pitch a large starter to also help keep the esters on the low side. The authentic Alts don't have esters. I bought two packs of the special release Wyeast 2575 Kolsch II a couple of months ago but reading its description it seems that it may be better suited to brewing a Northern German Alt instead.

Finally, if you really want to be authentic, throw some oak chips (maybe 30g) into your fermenter for the final week before you keg/bottle. All the Alts I sampled were dispensed from oak casks.

PS: Manticle (and others who asked): Yes, my gut is pretty much okay now. Things are normal again but my stomach still hurts a tad every now and again.


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## manticle (15/10/10)

Thanks for those tips. I'll have a play with those ideas this weekend.

glad gut ist gut.


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## mje1980 (15/10/10)

Hey manticle, i was at a local bottlo ( good one ) and found a brown swing top bottle of "Altenmunsten". Not much other info ( dont read german that great ). I figured it might be an alt, and expected an amber colour, but to my surprise, it was more golden yellow than anything. Very dry, and malty, but with some bitterness. Was like DAB, but heaps better. Not really sure if was even an alt, but thought it might help. Let us know how it turns out.


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## jbirbeck (15/10/10)

newguy said:


> If you're after an authentic Dusseldorf Alt, I can help you out.
> 
> Grist: prior to my trip I would have used quite a bit (up to 30-40%) of Munich malt but now that I've tasted authentic stuff, that should be cut back to maybe 5% at most with the balance being either pilsner malt (preferred) or pale 2 row. Add just enough dark malt (either carafa or pale chocolate or chocolate or even roasted barley) to get the authentic colour (orange to copper). My gut tells me that you shouldn't need more than 60g for a 20l batch, but use some brewing s/w to calculate the right amount for the target colour. From the flavours I was getting in the Alts I tried, any of these dark malts would be appropriate. Even a touch of peated malt would be okay as Fuchschen was a tad peaty.
> 
> ...



To keep the esters low on the 2565 I'd saw 16 or under. once it hits about 17/18 it can go into overdrive with fruit from my experience. Love it but if you want lower esters lower the temp.

the Kolsch II is much the same from the brews I've done with it so far. If it gets to 18 its ester heaven (love the aroma and flavours it throws) so drop it well below that and it will be much cleaner. I may do an alt this weekend based on the above as I have been going the other with increasing munich malt.

I'd probably suggest going FWH to get low hop aroma rather than late additions but that's just me.

I love mashing down at 62/63 because you get a great dry finish and if you've got your recipe right it still provides a good mouthfeel and good malt.


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## Swinging Beef (15/10/10)

mje1980 said:


> ...brown swing top bottle of "Altenmunsten".


Not a bad beer, but its a helles lager or bavarian pilsner, not an alt.


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## newguy (15/10/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> To keep the esters low on the 2565 I'd saw 16 or under. once it hits about 17/18 it can go into overdrive with fruit from my experience. Love it but if you want lower esters lower the temp.



You're right. I flubbed when I wrote 18/19C.

Thanks for the tips regarding 2575.

I forgot to mention this earlier, but in case anyone else is seriously considering a European beer trip, the website I found most useful is this pub guide. It's a wee bit dated but still very useful.


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## Eater (15/10/10)

Looks like you had a fantastic trip (minus the aformentioned unmentionable) to the land of great beers and fine foods  
For those considering a trip to Munich, for beer, try and nail down a copy of "The beer drinkers guide to Munich" it helped us plan out our trip far in advance and helped to choose a hotel close to the Hauptbahnhof for ease of transport to all the beer gardens.
We were also mistaken for anything but Aussies up to an including lost English tourists who didnt know that Oktoberfest was still two weeks away (we were there early to avoid such massive crowds and sample beer gardens rather than the festival atmosphere).
Well worth the mega transit hours required to get there and back


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## Steve (15/10/10)

Thanks for sharing Newguy. A great read and great pics. Nice one!
Cheers
Steve


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## kbe (16/10/10)

Loved reading all this  but I do have a question (or more). How come all the glasses that you were drinking from seemed smallish? I suppose that they were ten ounces? Is that what is the normal thing over there? It seems as a brewery is like a normal shop, just there in the middle of the street, not very wide but quite long. Is this a correct?

Like I said, loved the story!


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## newguy (17/10/10)

kbe said:


> Loved reading all this  but I do have a question (or more). How come all the glasses that you were drinking from seemed smallish? I suppose that they were ten ounces? Is that what is the normal thing over there? It seems as a brewery is like a normal shop, just there in the middle of the street, not very wide but quite long. Is this a correct?
> 
> Like I said, loved the story!



The glasses are traditional in Dusseldorf and Koln - they're called a stange and they hold 200 ml. Not sure how common they are outside of this immediate geographical area but I didn't seem them in Munich. They're usually transported in a traditional circular holder which reminded me of the bullet-holding part of a revolver. I think they held something like 12 glasses. The waiter would fill the holder with empty glasses and then fill them by holding the entire thing under the tap and rotating it to the next empty glass once the one he was filling was full without turning off the tap. Sort of like how a gatling gun fires I suppose.

The glasses are small but the waiters (I know they're called kobes in Koln but not sure if that's true outside of Koln) are very efficient. You just have to give them a nod and you'll have a full glass in maybe 30 seconds. Actually, that's not entirely true. The general rule is that an empty glass is automatically replaced with a full one until you ask to pay.

In Dusseldorf I didn't see a waitress in the brewpubs. In Koln I saw one in Gaffel, but that was it. Only waiters in general. This was the opposite of Munich where I only saw waitresses.

You reminded me of something funny that happened in Gaffel. We arrived just before the lunch rush and there was a section of the restaurant/pub that seemed to be closed as the waiters kept ushering people out of it. I don't know why - maybe it was reserved for some large function? Anyhow, when they were occupied a Japanese tour group arrived, led by a young female Japanese woman carrying one of those "follow me" markers aloft on a stick. I've seen them here in Canada in Banff and Vancouver before - don't know if they're a universal Japanese thing or not, but I suspect they are. She led this very large group into the closed area and sat them down, then walked out to get the rest of the group. On her way out one of the waiters tried to get her attention (he was literally 0.5m behind her) but she didn't notice and kept walking. Then our waiter and this other one go face to face and start talking, both of them grinning ear to ear. Our waiter leaves, and the other one just stands there waiting for the tour leader to return, which she did shortly. He stood there with a huge smile on his face, saying hello to each of them in Japanese as they paraded past. He had come to the conclusion that getting them to move would be more trouble than it was worth so he sarcastically just went along with what was happening. The tour leader then went to the washroom, but the waiter thought she was on her way to get more, and he enthusiastically told her that there were still plenty of seats and that she should bring back even more people. He was positively dripping sarcasm, and it was hilarious. Just after this he called out to our waiter, who was across the restaurant, "Klaus! ....Mee-how!" It was very difficult not to break out laughing.

You're right, the breweries/brewpubs are usually quite narrow but very long. They'll often have a beer garden out the back too, especially if there isn't room in the front.


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## white.grant (17/10/10)

mje1980 said:


> Hey manticle, i was at a local bottlo ( good one ) and found a brown swing top bottle of "Altenmunsten". Not much other info ( dont read german that great ). I figured it might be an alt, and expected an amber colour, but to my surprise, it was more golden yellow than anything. Very dry, and malty, but with some bitterness. Was like DAB, but heaps better. Not really sure if was even an alt, but thought it might help. Let us know how it turns out.



I saw that last week and thought the same thing but luckily checked ratebeer and put the bottle back on the shelf. I have never seen a beer rate 1 before :huh:


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## pk.sax (1/10/12)

newguy said:


> The only reason I took this picture is that it's the view from the park right across from the palace above where I took a leak. Hey, my cousin-in-law did it too!



Colincidentally, I have a picture of that place too, in the evening and I had a leak there too for whatever reason!


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