# Notes towards a cock ale



## TimT (2/1/15)

Yeah you read me right! It's a very old style, check out as an example the recipe in Digby. Essentially a combination of chicken and ale!

Anyway, this year as a result of both our own and my mother-in-law's expanding chicken flocks, it seems very likely that I'll have one or several roosters to deal with at some point.

So I'm planning to get some old-school brewing done and make a cock ale.

I've done plenty of herbal brews before, a number of traditional wines, but a cock ale seems a step up again. It's using meat in the brew, after all!

Here are my thoughts: the recipes you'll find - there are many many examples; it was a very popular drink in pre-modern times - almost all include not only 'ale' but the addition of a sweet wine (sack). Digby's recipe also includes raisins, dates, nutmeg and mace.

So it's a very rich drink: sweetness and tartness from the wine, raisins and dates; spiciness from the nutmeg and mace and (possibly) hops; maltiness and graininess from the ale itself; and saltiness and savouriness from the cock. 

I'm thinking a modern cock ale would be a high alcohol brew; a malt base that would accommodate these rich flavours; and with complex spicing to complement the chicken taste. Think complexity!

So:

Grain bill
A traditional English drink - something like a pale or brown ale or a porter recipe? Not anything that would carry too much grainy bitterness like a stout, but nothing too mild either - I just don't think a low alcohol light brew would have enough character for this drink.

Yeast
I'm tempted to say a complex yeast, like a saison yeast, since the esters they seem to throw up seem to me to go well with savoury flavours. However, the addition of chicken to the ale would be good for virtually any yeast - plenty of nitrogen and nutrient to work with. And cock ales seem to be more about the added spices - wine, dates, nutmeg - rather than yeast complexity. So maybe a straightforward pale ale yeast?

Hops
Again, I'm not sure if these matter much. The Digby recipe seems to imply that you just use any old ale you have, which could be anything from a high-hopped pale ale to an old-style herbal gruit you have lying around the house. Hops do bring a spicy complexity, but so do, well... spices. Cock ale could probably do with some ageing which would probably mean that flavour and aroma from hops would tend to be lost. So maybe just bittering?

What do you reckon? Has anyone done this? Any changes you'd make to my suggestions?


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## manticle (2/1/15)

The only brewer I know who's done it is ross so might be worth a pm. There are various threads around though.


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## TimT (3/1/15)

Thanks, I'll send him a PM. It's a style often mentioned but not so often tried.

Aside from the Digby recipe I have an 18th century recipe for 'Cock Water', very similar in many ways. It mentions the use of a still, sack, AND backsweetens after distillation. So it's definitely on the 'rich and sweet' side.


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## manticle (3/1/15)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76059-bacchus-at-scbw/

No idea if it's the same as yours but the inspiration for the bacchus chicken beer is outlined here.

If it were me, I'd either brew the recipe exactly or take a fairly standard beer and add the chook as suggested. Don't add too many variables or you'll get no useful information about the whys and wherefores.


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## TimT (3/1/15)

I can definitely see your reasoning, it's just that chicken is such an unexpected addition in modern brewing!

Beer and Brewer had a sort-of recipe recently - white wine used in the boil, a bit of salt to bring out the flavours, and dates.

Do you make much chicken stock? I did, sort of, last year. Probably about 8 litres, from a largish rooster (sorry, don't know the weight). Would much flavour remain in a 22 L ale?


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## manticle (3/1/15)

I make various stocks, including chook semi regularly. I guess one advantage would be the reduction of fat content in the final brew if using stock. The bacchus and inspiration brew sound more like fortified ale though and I can imagine it being served close to still (and in winter - current melbourne weather screams apa/saison/pilsner/hefe to me).

My hypothesising don't mean much though - get in touch with the bloke who has done it. He's usually very helpful and while I've not tried that beer, I've had other bacchus beers and they are usually very successful at showcasing a spec ingredient in a well brewed beer.


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## Mardoo (3/1/15)

Followed. I'm interested in the way meat was used as nutrition in brewing some meads. Also a friend asked me to make him a meat beer. I figured beef stock could really add something to a stout h34r:


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/1/15)

I always thought that putting a cock in your ale was a bit risque.....


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## Bribie G (3/1/15)

At Craftbrewer when I was in there a few years ago collecting some sacks, I was at the front counter talking to Ross and was surprised to see his cock laying on the counter near that handpump that resided in the old shed. He was brewing a batch that was no doubt one of the Cock ales I tried at the Scratch Bar on handpump.

The cock struck me as surprisingly small for such a large batch of beer, but was obviously up for the job, and it was wrapped in clingwrap - I believe his mrs had brought it in for him as he obviously had left it at home.

It was well cooked as well with the flesh falling off it and it appeared to be skinned, presumably to avoid putting too much fat in the brew that would kill head. Obviously knew what he was doing and didn't dick around with this brew, the idea being not to insert too much fat and save the head for later on.


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/1/15)

Good to see he had the job in hand.

Did he let you touch his cock or at least let you help him put his cock in the fermenter ?


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## Bribie G (3/1/15)

No, I didn't touch it for hygiene and sanitation purposes but, as always when I see a well prepared cock my mouth did water a bit as I hadn't had any meat for a while.


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## manticle (3/1/15)

Sounds a bit like 'bum' doesn't it?


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## GalBrew (3/1/15)

So you are going to brew a 'cock sack' ale?


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/1/15)

The cock is supposed to go in a sack


You can also add crabs if you like. Adds a different flavor, more salty than cock


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## Bribie G (3/1/15)

I think this thread should be merged with "Smoking Meat".


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## Pogierob (3/1/15)

a quick google and wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_ale
It calls for ten gallons of ale, and a large cock, the older the better.

I know with boiler chooks the flavour is quite intense and not really to my liking, so I'd keep clear of them if I was you.

Since you are going for an experimental experience, I might suggest you go for a smaller cock, or perhaps a younger one, that way you would only need 5 gallons of ale, so that you don't end up with an overpowering taste, unless of course you are after a large quantity of ale and a big old cock. :unsure:


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/15)

Rob.P said:


> Since you are going for an experimental experience, I might suggest you go for a smaller cock, or perhaps a younger one, that way you would only need 5 gallons of ale, so that you don't end up with an overpowering taste, unless of course you are after a large quantity of ale and a big old cock. :unsure:


That would make for one hell of a swap meet


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## wynnum1 (4/1/15)

The recipe i have in a book for one . gallon cock ale soak cooked chicken pieces and crushed bones in half a bottle of strong white wine overnight then all added to fermenting wort Attenuation takes up to a week longer.


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## TimT (4/1/15)

Thanks Wynnum! How the chook is added to the booze is one of the bits of the process that doesn't seem to be mentioned much in the old recipes.


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## Bribie G (4/1/15)

I have a feeling that Ross soaked the chook in some strong wine (port maybe?). We await his comments.


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## MHB (4/1/15)

I know several brewers who have tried making "cocked ale" one even used quail and another squab, I don't know anyone who has done a second one!
Lots of potential down sides and I cant think of a single upside, brewing has moved on a bit in the last couple of hundred years, there was from around the early 1800's quite a push to prevent additions of nefarious ingredients to beer, some of which are now known to be toxic but which were in quite common use.
In ancient Rome Lead Carbonate was used as a condiment and they used Galena (Lead/Silver alloy) to make drinking vessels.
As recently as Victorian times Arsenic pentoxide was used in house hold paint and Mercury was used to keep household silver shiny.
Just because people used to do something doesn't mean it was then or is now a good idea.

I'm not suggesting that a chook is toxic, but I would rather make a good chicken cacciatore to have with my beer.
Mark


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## TimT (4/1/15)

I thought an obvious value of this would be you not only get an ale but you get a few meals out of it as well. After making some sort of wort-stock by boiling a chook you can just take it out, shred it to pieces, and throw it in a pie.


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## Feldon (4/1/15)

My understanding of this is that the chook acts as a big chunk of yeast nutrient. The yeast consume everything in time - fat, bone, flesh etc. So I don't think there will be any chicken flavour in the beer. Similarly, I've seen a recipe for scrumpy cider that has a leg of pork in it which is said to be totally consumed by the yeast.

Interested to see how this one turns out.


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## Spohaw (4/1/15)

This thread give me a good chuckle haha


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/15)

Dont forget that a whole cock would contain gelatin.


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## Ross (4/1/15)

Tim,

We regularly brew our Cock Ale (sorry MHB), & it was awarded a Silver medal at the Australian International Beer Awards (despite 2 of the judges being vegetarian so I'm told), so I guess it stands as a pretty good beer.
We brew a strong Scottish Ale with Belgian yeast & pretty well follow the original procedure as linked previously. We take the chicken, smash the bones, & put in a litre of port (we originally used Sherry = sack) with the fruits & spices & reduce by 50% on a hard boil.The resulting broth is added to the finished beer (bones & all) & left for a further week, before kegging.
What we discovered from our making of this beer, is what we believe is the reasoning behind the process. The chicken broth is extremely rich in gelatin & the beer will drop completely bright within 24 hrs of adding it in. Pretty well every recipe calls for the smashing of the bones (releasing the gelatin). I could find no reference to this reasoning when we made our first batch, but since revealing our findings, they have been much referenced, so pretty chuffed we might have helped in identifying one of the earliest forms of fining...

Cheers & good luck with your version....


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## Feldon (4/1/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Dont forget that a whole cock would contain gelatin.


I don't think there is any gelatin in a raw animal. It is produced by boiling the beast which causes the natural collagen to breakdown and form gelatin. Acidic environments can also produce gelatin from collagen, so maybe some might be produced during the fermentation process - dunno.


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## Ross (4/1/15)

Feldon said:


> I don't think there is any gelatin in a raw animal. It is produced by boiling the beast which causes the natural collagen to breakdown and form gelatin. Acidic environments can also produce gelatin from collagen, so maybe some might be produced during the fermentation process - dunno.


That's probably why the original recipe calls for the chicken to be boiled - It is not added raw. If you look at the chicken juices from your roast dinner after it has cooled, you will see they have all turned to jelly...

The first time I made this beer, the reasoning behind boiling the flayed chicken in the sherry was to release any fat & hopefully skim it off the top of the broth before adding to the beer. However, no fat layer formed, so i but the flask in the fridge (suspecting the broth was still too warm), but still no fat layer. We then went to pour the broth into the beer, but it wouldn't come out the flask, it had solidified into a solid jelly.

Cheers Ross


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## TimT (4/1/15)

Thanks Ross! Hmm, interesting. The release of gelatin is fascinating. Martha Washington's 'Cock Water' recipe is pretty brutal - it calls for the cock to be flayed while still alive. I'm assuming the reasoning is similar, break the bones.

So for one chook do you make 10 gallons of wort as the recipe provided in the link suggests?


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## Pogierob (4/1/15)

If the end game is flavour and the gelatin I would suggest simply making a chicken stock and using that in place of your water. A quality stock will have extracted all of the gelatinous/flavour properties from the cock.
I cant help but think this would be a safer option also, although be careful. . I have seen 200lt of chicken stock go sour within 24 hours so I would tread very carefully and make sure your starter is kick ass to ensure ut is the dominant "infection".

Just be careful an infected cock ale has . potential to be not just a pain but deadly.


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## Feldon (4/1/15)

If it were me, I'd throw a bit of veal in there as well - go after a cock & bull ale.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/1/15)

I can see Ross's special board " Come on in and grab a nice cold cock........ale"


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## TimT (4/1/15)

Yeah I wouldn't want it to be an utter cock up.


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