# No Chill Versus Chill?



## UsernameTaken (13/5/17)

It has recently been suggested to me that chilling my wort down to fermentation temp as quickly as possible after my late hop additions will make a significant difference to the freshness of my hop flavours with my hoppy beers.

Can anyone who has moved from no chill to chill confirm or deny this?

Cheers,
UNT


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## Stouter (13/5/17)

Uh oh, I feel a flood of emotionally passionate comments coming. Duck!


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## UsernameTaken (13/5/17)

I guess I was looking for real world experiences and not blind defence or attack of any particular process?

Cheers,
UNT


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## manticle (13/5/17)

Yes it will make a difference.

Whether the difference is worth the change in process or you can make up that difference in another way (eg. hot steep/argon method) will be up to you but there is no doubt that just side by side will differ markedly (in late/highly hopped beers, much less with earlier additions)


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## UsernameTaken (13/5/17)

I guess I was hoping someone who had made the transition could give me some indication of how it affected the hop flavour?

Cheers,
UNT


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## Danscraftbeer (13/5/17)

I've done both but as for my hoppy beers I chill. For beers that have only bittering hops I will no chill because it doesn't make any difference. You'll get more IBU, bitterness out of cubed hops (or late addition hopped wort) because of the length of time it stays hot. Longer time above 80c longer Isomerisation. So in theory it is fair that if you want more flavour/aroma then chilled is better because it stops the isomerisation. In my preference anyway.
(gets ready to duck)
Cube Hoppers can weigh in here and give their preferred methods etc. h34r:


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## fungrel (13/5/17)

I have gone the opposite direction, and find that the timing of sub-15min additions make a huge difference when you chill. It really does depend on what sort of flavour profile you prefer, as there are many ways to achieve what you want. You need to work out what sort of commercial beers you like to drink, research their hopping techniques, and work backwards. There are other ways to do it, but they all come back to what you prefer. 
I moved to no chill to save water, knowing that lagers are what I want to brew (and save money on water bills in the process).


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## jbaker9 (13/5/17)

My latest pale ale is no chill without 5 min hops. At the suggestion of another user I boiled the 5 min addition in 2 L water and chilled in the sink... will know soon if it works


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## RobB (13/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> Can anyone who has moved from no chill to chill confirm or deny this?


I have moved from no-chill to chilling and yes, the same beer chilled will have more hop flavour than its no-chilled equivalent. However, there are ways around this, most notably with cube hopping.

You can get massive hop flavours from cube hopping. My experience with both techniques is that I achieved more hop flavour from cube hopping than I did with a post-boil steep followed by a rapid chill.


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## UsernameTaken (13/5/17)

So just to confirm, by cube hopping you mean still whirlpool and stand for 30 mins and then transfer to cube with all 15min or later hops already in the cube?

Cheers,
UNT


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## manticle (13/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> I guess I was hoping someone who had made the transition could give me some indication of how it affected the hop flavour?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


Yes I have done both. No chill will give more bitterness and les delicate hop flavour with late additions, not much difference with early additions.

The kinds of differences are well documented but only you can decide what works better for your purposes. Try it out and see.


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## Bribie G (13/5/17)

Cube hopping is where you put the hops into the cube and drain the hot wort onto them. It's more or less the equivalent of whirlpool or "hop back" hopping.

Another method with aroma hops is to only do a bittering addition in the kettle, and as Manticle said, reserve a couple of litres to do the late additions in a separate pan, cool and add to FV with the bulk of the cubed wort.

With the vast majority of hops used in Australian home brews being pellets, cube hopping is easy. With flowers or plugs, the pan method is preferable, or even use a coffee plunger / press.


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## UsernameTaken (13/5/17)

Ok, thank you all, great advice!

Doing it right now!!

Cheers,
UNT


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/5/17)

Way back when Brewers where burned at the stake for even suggesting no chill.....we gave it a go

And it took a while for us to work out why our beers just didnt taste the same

Eventually we worked out that no-chill added 10-15 mins to the hop schedule... IE a 0 min addition became a 10 min addition when it had cooled down

Oh how things have changed, and brewers are no longer burnt at the stake.... ( except if you question Star-San and other methods...man the Star-San fan boy's go nuts ....you will get botulism...etc...etc..)

Modern brewing software now has settings for no-chill....all because a bunch of us decided it could be done and worked out all the things that didnt make it work

Getting proper flame out aroma can be done with no-chill if you know how 

NOTE:- I dont know of any brewer who has suffered the almost mandated botulism at the time....apparently no-chill was a sure fire death sentence


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## UsernameTaken (13/5/17)

Great post Ducatiboy stu - Thank you for sharing your wisdom!

I ended up doing a 20 minute whirlpool and chucking all my hops into the cube this afternoon and I am cautiously optimistic...

Cheers,
UNT


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## GrumpyPaul (13/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> *C*heers,
> *UNT*


You really should think carefully before abbreviating your username.


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## capsicum (14/5/17)

I've recently made the change to no chill after years of immersion chilling, mainly for the time management aspect (got a young baby etc).

Does no chill make a significant difference to hop profile? I'd say it definitely would if you kept your recipe the same - but that's not the way to do it! Presumably you'd be making the move to no chill for other reasons and adapt your hop schedule accordingly. Most software now can account for no chill, and using cube/dry hopping right can give all the flavour and aroma you need.

I only do first wort, cube and dry hopping and I'm completely satisfied. There is obviously some recipe adjustment involved and for me that involved a few brews getting a feel for it, but now I reckon my no chills are just as good as anything I made with an immersion chiller. Can't tell if they're exactly the same as before but eh, they taste great anyway!

Give it a go and see what you reckon.
:chug:


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## Lionman (15/5/17)

As above, if you FWH, cube then dry hop you can get plenty of hoppyness come through.

There is no point doing late boil or flame out additions if no chilling.

If you want big hop profile, don't hold back on cube additions.


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## UsernameTaken (15/5/17)

So how long would you whirlpool for in the kettle for when cube hopping?

Cheers,
UNT


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## Benn (15/5/17)

Once I've reached flame out I give the wort a minute or two to calm down then I get my spoon and begin to rouse a vigorous whirlpool over about 30 seconds or there abouts. I then put the lid on the kettle and don't touch it again until it's time to transfer to cube, usually about 20 minutes or when the wort has cooled to around 80 degrees.
I always get a large mound of hop & break material in the centre of the kettle with clear wort around the outside to draw from.
I'd be interested in other no chillers thoughts/ methods as I just jumped in without a lot of research and it's what I've found works for me.

I have found that if I wait too long to begin whirlpooling i.e after bulk cold break forms or try and do a second whirlpool for whatever reason then I find the cold break fluffs up and disperses throughout the wort again and just doesn't seem to settle and clear as easily as the initial cold break. This of course could be a result of poor water chemistry or other factors that I'm unaware of at this point in time.


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## S.E (15/5/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Way back when Brewers where burned at the stake for even suggesting no chill.....we gave it a go
> 
> And it took a while for us to work out why our beers just didnt taste the same
> 
> ...


I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden?

My understanding was that no chill in a cube (or slow chill as it should have been called as it does still chill slowly) was first tried on here and made popular by the Illawarra Brewers Union and the earliest mention I can find is this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article56.html written by IBU member Cortez The Killer and discussed here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/ by Cortez with input from other IBU members.

Also post #55 on Homebrew talk by IBU member Fatgodzilla http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=117111&page=6

At the time it seems that most brewers on AHB thought that wort must be chilled immediately after the boil but no chilling is in fact a very old HB method and was commonly practiced before we had internet and this forum.

Homebrewing was learned from books or word of mouth pre internet and wort chillers were not readily available so the two main methods of cooling was pour the wort into a fermenter or plastic beer barrel and either place it in a bath of cold water or let it cool slowly at ambient.

When I lived in a flat with only a shower I would leave it in a barrel for a day or two. I only recall cube or barrel hopping once though as I had forgotten to add the 5min addition to the boil.

Carbing in cubes or using them as casks for dispensing real ale is another old and simple HB method that is now popular but took a bit of flack from nay sayers and when the idea was first posted here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/

I think the trolling and burning at the stake that used to happen on AHB was because in the early years of the forum most members had never heard of the old simple methods and had learned to brew using modern or advanced methods from How To Brew and American home brew sites.

If you look back at some of the old threads it was years before it was realised you don’t need a three tier brewery, chiller or airlock etc to brew.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/17)

S.E said:


> I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden? - I dont think there was an actual thread....but we are talking 10yrs ago h34r:
> 
> My understanding was that no chill in a cube (or slow chill as it should have been called as it does still chill slowly) was first tried on here and made popular by the Illawarra Brewers Union and the earliest mention I can find is this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article56.html written by IBU member Cortez The Killer and discussed here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/ by Cortez with input from other IBU members. Go back 10yrs
> 
> ...


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## lost at sea (15/5/17)

i must be the poster child for lazy brewing....
ive only ever BIAB-NC and cube hopped. wouldnt know anything different, my reasons were to save a butt load of water being wasted (IMHO), save on the cost/hassle of a chiller and time saving on brew day, from go to whoa takes me roughly 4 hours, i prep my water into the kettle the night before and clean my gear along the way.....

bitterness? i do a single bittering addition around 40-30 mins, then cube hop everything else. and depending on style, do a dry-hop where required.

i love the NC and cube hops its just so freaking easy.


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## bradsbrew (15/5/17)

Originally I no chilled, then when I had the Grainfather I chilled using the counterflow chiller. The "hoppy ales" that I chilled were far superior than any that I no chilled, resin and aroma seemed "fresher". Having said that, now that I have moved back to a bigger system (140L output) I have gone back to no chilling as it is easier and, as mentioned, with a little extra work and effort you will still get well balanced hoppy beers, just the "freshness" and "lasting aroma" is not the same as the chilled brews, for me.

Cheers


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## Rocker1986 (15/5/17)

I've never 'actively' chilled wort, been NC since I went AG, but I've just adapted hop schedules to work with the process to give me what I want. I usually find with APAs for example that a small early addition (either FWH or 60 mins), then reasonably sized additions at 10 minutes and flameout with a generous dry hop gives me plenty of hop flavour and aroma. I have an APA on tap currently that is very tasty. I am planning to try cube hopping though, it sounds like it would only improve it more. I have no plans to move to chilling, with only having one FV and the brew fridge only accommodating said FV, it's a lot more convenient to no-chill because brew days rarely line up with when the FV is empty.


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## S.E (15/5/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> > I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden? - I dont think there was an actual thread....but we are talking 10yrs ago h34r:
> >
> > My understanding was that no chill in a cube (or slow chill as it should have been called as it does still chill slowly) was first tried on here and made popular by the Illawarra Brewers Union and the earliest mention I can find is this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/articles/article56.html written by IBU member Cortez The Killer and discussed here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/ by Cortez with input from other IBU members. Go back 10yrs
> >
> > ...


BIAB was another war that I missed. I saw the tread come up from time to time but didn’t read it as I thought they were just discussing the method.

I didn’t realise they thought they were inventing it at the time and caused a bit of an upset when I mentioned it was an old method popular in the seventies and eighties and posted a pic of my eighties BIAB setup.

[SIZE=11pt]Again I think it must have been because BIAB wasn’t discussed on American sites. [/SIZE]


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## Stouter (15/5/17)

S.E said:


> I mentioned it was an old method and popular in the seventies and eighties and posted a pic of my eighties BIAB setup. [/size][/font]


That's Old School right there.


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## Bribie G (15/5/17)

Yet another opportunity to trot out this lovely old picture:





When All Grain home brewing really took off about 20 years ago, it was the bleeding obvious that you simply cobbled together a mini-version of the above, and problem solved.
After all, tried and tested over centuries so why try to fix what ain't broke.

However most of the processes at the traditional brewery were directed towards cranking out thousands of litres of beer per brew, but as home brewers we have far greater flexibility with mashing, cooling etc. As the boundaries got pushed, of course there were reactionary factions and splinter groups and much argy bargy as we saw on this forum going back six or eight years ago.

The "one size fits all brewery" was a bit like saying "ok, to get to the supermarket what you need is to build a quarter sized Mack prime mover with a Maxitrans Ezi-Liner B-Double set attached, big enough for two people to fit in, with groceries. 

Whereas what you really needed was a Toyota Corolla.


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## Stouter (15/5/17)

Bribie G said:


> Whereas what you really needed was a Toyota Corolla.


Or a Datsun 180Biab?


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## UsernameTaken (15/5/17)

As a relative newbee I am loving all this history!

Keep it up...

Cheers,
UNT


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/17)

180Biab ( brew in a bomb )


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/17)

S.E said:


> I didn’t realise they thought they were inventing it at the time and caused a bit of an upset when I mentioned it was an old method popular in the seventies and eighties and posted a pic of my eighties BIAB setup.
> 
> [SIZE=11pt]Again I think it must have been because BIAB wasn’t discussed on American sites. [/SIZE]


The BIAB war wasnt because they thought they invented it, rather, that brewers of the day would not accept it as a method..

" Your beer will never taste like proper AG"

" You wont get it as efficient as AG "

" Its not as good as AG"

" Your balls will shrivel up and fall off"

Same sort if silly reasons as shit caning No-chill


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/5/17)

The masochist in me misses those days.

The fights were annoying but hell it was fun to see people pushing things and the discussion therein.

Had a great chat with Rdevjun about how to extract maximum volume from minimum equipment and I still value the ideas we bounced.


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## Batz (15/5/17)

S.E said:


> I have heard a few times about the no chill botulism war but never found the thread, does it still exist or was it hidden?


You need to take the _way back machine _ at a time we had a member called Darren.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9354-the-no-chiller-method/page-10?hl=botulism#entry122433

Enjoy.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/17)

Batz said:


> You need to take the _way back machine _ at a time we had a member called Darren.
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9354-the-no-chiller-method/page-10?hl=botulism#entry122433
> 
> Enjoy.



He WAS the man.....Incredible really


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/17)

*From the thread way back in 2006*

This debate has been interesting, but brewers must be certain of the risks and variables in the process.

It is widely accepted that achieving a quick cool down and pitching as soon as possible is prefferable brewing practise.

It is also obvious that some brewers are having success with storing hot and pitching some time into the future. Just because the process works for people like Kai, Ray Mills and microbreweries does not automatically mean that it will work for you.

Kai and Ray Mills are brewers that have shown in the winner's circle that they pay alot of attention to their brewing. They may have perfected variables that other brewers may still struggling with. Boil length and strength, water treatment, correct hopping, correct transfer and perfect sanitation are variables that spring to mind that would have an effect on wort stability. Just because it works for people such as Kai and Ray, does not automatically mean it will work for you.

This is a big trap for many newer brewers who see or read of different proceedures that Ross, Kai, Ray, GLS, Barry or of any other top notch brewer, without understanding that these advanced brewers pay attention to all aspects of their brewing. For instance, a brewer that has access to large coldroom facilities will have a big edge over people who store their brews at room temperature, because cold storage means the brews do not show signs of aging as quickly.

There are many many variables. It is only side by side experiments that can give a true picture.

Storing warm does give some flexability to the brewing day, but should not be looked on as the way to go.


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## Batz (15/5/17)

He was actually was trained in a field that could have helped us all a lot back then. Bad luck he was such a dick.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/5/17)

Batz said:


> He was actually was trained in a field that could have helped us all a lot back then. Bad luck he was such a dick.


This is true

...and the New Darren


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## Lionman (15/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> So how long would you whirlpool for in the kettle for when cube hopping?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


I don't think there is much benefit in whirlpooling at all if you are transferring hot wort to a cube, but I have not done both to compare side by side. 

Just put the whirlpool additions in the cube. They will be in contact with hot wort for a similar amount of time as whirlpool additions would be so it stands to reason that a similar result would be reached.

One potential draw back of no chill is that you miss out on the possible nuances of late additions. The subtle differences between 10, 5 and 0 minute additions are harder to accomplish.

Its not a perfect method, it's a compromise. The process is quicker, easier, cheaper and uses less water but you lose some of the finer control over the final product. 

You can still make delicious, hop forward beers though so for many, it's a compromise worth making.


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## UsernameTaken (16/5/17)

But don't I still need to whirlpool to seperate some crud from the wort before transferring to the cube?

Cheers,
UNT


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## manticle (16/5/17)

I do.
Can't see why you wouldn't.

I whirlpool after a hot wort stand for 20 minutes, then let sit another 20. Late additions for me are in the whirlpool but I'm not generally hop crazy. Cube additions work well for high hop flavour.


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## UsernameTaken (16/5/17)

Thanks guys, but just to clarify, how long would you suggest whirlpooling when cube hopping?

Cheers,
UNT


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## contrarian (16/5/17)

The big factor in hop flavour and aroma is the exposure to wort of a particular temperature for a particular time which dictates how many bitterness units you get from an addition. 

This is also not a linear relationship so conversion happens much more quickly at boiling than it does at say 90C. 

So by monitoring the temperature as it drops and adding hops along the way you can get a lot of flavour and aroma and still transfer to a cube at 80C which is fine for pasteurizing the cube. 

I have always no chilled and currently have a pale ale on tap that only has a 60 minute and 15 minute addition, it was going to be a flame out addition but got added early and it has plenty of hop flavour and aroma. 

Even with chilling you really need to know people's exact post book process to be able to replicate what they do. For example do people start their chiller immediately after flame out or do they wait a period of time first? With their chilling method how quickly does the temperature drop to below 80C etc. 

The only way to get it right is to try different things and see what works best for you.


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## btrots87 (16/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> Thanks guys, but just to clarify, how long would you suggest whirlpooling when cube hopping?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


If you're not adding hops to the whirlpool then the timing isn't as critical. I would just get a good stir going and leave it until the break material has settled out into a nice cone. 

Probably 10 to 15 minutes to settle out at a guess.


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## manticle (16/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> Thanks guys, but just to clarify, how long would you suggest whirlpooling when cube hopping?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


My process would be the same


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## Moad (16/5/17)

Late on this one but +1 for no chilling, I tried it once and was converted.

For me I brew a few large batches less often and then ferment at my leisure. It is a convenience and time issue more than anything else, I have found no deterioration in quality after accounting for hop differences. I cube and dry hop for Pales, have not done an IPA yet.


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## GalBrew (16/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> But don't I still need to whirlpool to seperate some crud from the wort before transferring to the cube?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


Not necessarily as all the crud will settle out and fall to the bottom of the cube, all the more if you are cube hopping. You can then siphon the wort out of the cube into the fermenter, leaving break material and hops behind.


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## Bribie G (16/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> But don't I still need to whirlpool to seperate some crud from the wort before transferring to the cube?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


Depending on what brewing method you are using you shouldn't have much crud anyway.
For example I do full volume BIAB in an urn and this is my typical trub:





Obviously that's after draining to cubes, so I only get clear runnings into the cube, then run off the rest into a jug and let it settle.
The clear wort can then be poured off into a pan and boiled, either with the late hops as posted by others, or used for starters.

I've put three steps into practice to reduce trub to a minimum.


Slow hoisting of bag to form grain bed
Hop "sock" to remove nearly all the solid hop material after the boil.
Final "flash" boil with lid on, to sterilise the headspace when, as a bonus, most of the trub rises with the boil then sticks itself to the upper sides of the urn, just before it tries to froth out of the lid. This step also allows the wort to cool safely to below 80 degrees for cubing. You can see the trub ring in this photo, most of any remaining hop solids also deposit here.


I only do this when I intend to pitch the next day as, of course, 80 degree wort isn't going to completely sterilise a cube.
On the other hand with proper cube cleaning and sanitation this shouldn't be a worry in practice, my last infected cube was over 4 years ago.


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## S.E (16/5/17)

Batz said:


> You need to take the _way back machine _ at a time we had a member called Darren.
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9354-the-no-chiller-method/page-10?hl=botulism#entry122433
> 
> Enjoy.


Thanks. So the botulism war was mainly Darren on a safety crusade, what happened to Darren is he still on here under a different name by any chance?

The OTT safety concerns sound similar to some of the bizarre doom gloom and death theories posted in the carbing and conditioning in a cube thread. What was with all the cube hostility back then I wonder?

According to Ray Mills first post #38 in the botulism thread he first introduced AHB to no chill after being shown the method by Tim Thomas the brewer from Five islands Brewery at IBU club big brew day at his place.

I’m sure I heard that it was Scotty that was the first no chiller in the club but I may be wrong. Then again no one could ever remember what happened on big Ray brew days so it’s possible that Ray mixed up the details as he said Scotty was also there at the time.

Ray Mills also used a bruheat boiler one of the early BIAB boilers from the eighties but only used it as a mash tun with a false bottom no bag if I remember correctly. He had bought it second hand and didn’t know if it had been bought here new or had made its way over with someone from the UK.

I find it hard to believe that BIAB was not accepted and used in AU prior to AHB and internet.


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## capsicum (16/5/17)

After reading this i haven't worried so much about trub: http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/

Yes, his has cold break in it too and the beer is chilled, but I haven't seen much detriment by having some kettle trub in my ferment... Except that it takes up room.

Also be aware that if you're using plastic siphons or other equipment, the temperature of non chilled wort can be enough to seriously warp it. First time I no chilled I wrecked my auto siphon (the plunger type).


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/5/17)

S.E said:


> I find it hard to believe that BIAB was not accepted and used in AU prior to AHB and internet.


Its becasue they all got burnt at the stake


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## billygoat (16/5/17)

S.E said:


> Carbing in cubes or using them as casks for dispensing real ale is another old and simple HB method that is now popular but took a bit of flack from nay sayers and when the idea was first posted here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/
> 
> 
> .


I'm glad you posted about the cubes SE.
But there were some silly reactions and as you say, nay sayers. 
I have been using one for the last 6 weeks or so and it is great, much easier and less waste than my beer engines. 

I have never used no chill as I don't have a need to but it does seem a good method and I have drank plenty of good beers from other no chillers.


Edit - Don't know how to rotate it.


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## Bribie G (16/5/17)

Looks fine to me in my current alignment after eight pints.


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## contrarian (16/5/17)

Bribie G said:


> Depending on what brewing method you are using you shouldn't have much crud anyway.
> For example I do full volume BIAB in an urn and this is my typical trub:
> 
> 
> ...


The best you can hope for when transferring hot wort to a cube is pasteurization which only takes 15 seconds at 72C and much shorter times at higher temperatures. 

For sterilization you need dry heat of 170C for one hour. 

I don't know anyone who would only count on heat to sanitize cubes and a good wash and a no rinse sanitizer but getting it into the cube near boiling doesn't make that big a difference.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/5/17)

contrarian said:


> The best you can hope for when transferring hot wort to a cube is pasteurization which only takes 15 seconds at 72C and much shorter times at higher temperatures.
> 
> For sterilization you need dry heat of 170C for one hour.
> 
> I don't know anyone who would only count on heat to sanitize cubes and a good wash and a no rinse sanitizer but getting it into the cube near boiling doesn't make that big a difference.


You just need Star-San and nothing else


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## Rocker1986 (16/5/17)

I take that Brulosophy trub experiment with a grain of salt personally. He drinks the beer within a month, probably not long enough for any potential issues to arise from dumping a heap of kettle trub into the fermenter, or perhaps not to the point of being detectable in the taste.

I don't whirlpool my wort but I do let it sit still for about 20 minutes after flameout before transferring it so that as much kettle trub as is physically possible can be left behind in a non filtered brewery. If it gets in the cube it's likely to end up in the fermenter as well since it all gets stirred up when the cube is picked up to tip into the fermenter. Obviously a very small amount gets in, which I'm not concerned about, but there's no way I'm gonna go and tip litres of the shit in there.

I've never cleaned my cubes with anything but a hot water rinse and periodic soaking in sodium perc. It's not best practice and I'm not claiming it to be but I've never had an infected cube in 4 and a half years, aside from one that had a leaky tap seal - funnily enough that cube was the only one I ever used Starsan in as well.


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## Lionman (17/5/17)

UsernameTaken said:


> But don't I still need to whirlpool to seperate some crud from the wort before transferring to the cube?
> 
> Cheers,
> UNT


I never whirlpool and I don't have any issues. I usually use whirlfloc and I get cold break minutes after the heat is off. I get clear running into the cube, leaving behind the settled proteins. I filter the wort between the cube and fermenter, most because of cube additions and get clean wort in the fermenter and clean yeast cakes.


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## Bribie G (17/5/17)

Another tip with no chill is, instead of buying a 20 or 25 Litre, just get two 10L jobs from Bunnings. They actually hold more like 11 litres once they have been used a few times, and if filled to the max, so are just the job for a "standard" size brew.

They cool far quicker (surface to volume ratio) and are a lot easier to shift around.

I use mine to transport tank water to the urn, then after a quick starsan they sit there patiently waiting for wort.

They aren't always as airtight as the FWK sized ones, but that's no problem as I nearly always pitch within 24 hours.
.


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## Stouter (17/5/17)

I had a problem with lids on the Bunnings containers, but that was with a 20L cube and trying to get a tight seal, just kept spinning.

Before transferring from the urn I'll usually leave it to sit for anywhere as long as a couple of hours with some cling wrap on top held in place by the lid. Advice someone gave me from their own method was that they even leave it sitting overnight like that without issues, though I've not done that yet because I prefer to have everything finished and cleaned the same day.


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/5/17)

I remember some of the old posts about getting scalded inner thigh's and legs from holding them whilst screwing the cap on

Someone even suggested cowboy chaps...


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