# Share holder in Hopsters Co-op Brewery Sydney for $250.



## Roosterboy (26/4/16)

Will this work Sydney ? I hope it does. For 1 share ie $250 you are a member, share holder and part owner in a Co-Op Brewery,.
There are lots of benefits for members , I think this is a great idea and a good form of crowdfunding ,
Roosterboy


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## Dan Pratt (27/4/16)

Do you have a link for more details?,


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## Roosterboy (27/4/16)

Pratty1 said:


> Do you have a link for more details?,


hopsters.com.au


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## kaiserben (27/4/16)

Roosterboy said:


> a good form of crowdfunding ,


Yeah that's it. It's crowdfunding, not really a co-op.


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## Roosterboy (27/4/16)

kaiserben said:


> Yeah that's it. It's crowdfunding, not really a co-op.


No your wrong it is a Co-op under fair trading NSW and will follow all the regulations. Go to their site and read .


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## kaiserben (27/4/16)

I've read it. 

EDIT: I should clarify that I hope it's successful, I'm even considering stumping up $250 myself, but I don't consider it a true co-op when it's members can't use the equipment (the best they can hope for is to "enter their homebrew in beer competitions and help select winning brews to be produced by Hopsters!")


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## Yob (27/4/16)

Roosterboy said:


> Will this work Sydney ? I hope it does. For 1 share ie $250 you are a member, share holder and part owner in a Co-Op Brewery,.
> There are lots of benefits for members , I think this is a great idea and a good form of crowdfunding ,
> Roosterboy


Are you affiliated with it?


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## Roosterboy (27/4/16)

kaiserben said:


> I've read it.
> 
> EDIT: I should clarify that I hope it's successful, I'm even considering stumping up $250 myself, but I don't consider it a true co-op when it's members can't use the equipment (the best they can hope for is to "enter their homebrew in beer competitions and help select winning brews to be produced by Hopsters!")


They will have a commercial brewery , so it's not like brew your own breweries but they will let members take part in the brewing process as they're an owner.


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## Roosterboy (27/4/16)

Yob said:


> Are you affiliated with it?


No Yob, I have no relationship with them, not a member or part of the Co-op but I have spoken to the guy who started it via email. I was looking into the
pros and cons of a Co-Op on google when their name came up. I don't live in Sydney so I can't just drop in. But it appears to be a positive development,
there are a number in the US and they work with each other to a point.


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## Maheel (27/4/16)

interesting idea

website does not seem to say who "we" / "they" are.

can "they / we" also only own one voting share each?
are "they / we" on or going to be the Board of D and or employed there etc ?

if you stacked the book and bought shares in all your family members names and they proxy vote you, could you take control ?


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## kaiserben (27/4/16)

Roosterboy said:


> They will have a commercial brewery , so it's not like brew your own breweries but they will let members take part in the brewing process as they're an owner.


Sure. I already quoted the bit about how involved members will be in the brewing process (ie not very).


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## GABBA110360 (27/4/16)

for 250 bucks i'd want more than a username and password ?


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## wide eyed and legless (27/4/16)

Maheel said:


> if you stacked the book and bought shares in all your family members names and they proxy vote you, could you take control ?


With a potential of 20,000 owners you would need a big family. 
I would like to know what the $500,000 is going to be used for, have they got a brewery, is it for a brewery, why did the banks not lend them the money?


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## SBOB (27/4/16)

its a good idea if you want to help a couple of guys start their brewery, in the hopes that
- it will be succesful
- you'll get a small discount on some growler fills and
- 'if' they ever become profitable after whatever operating expenses they have and have 6 months of operational costs in the bank, you might see some small dividend 

they arent even buying any brewery equipment until they have 1000 members/owners. 

really, its a crowdfunding campaign with a few 'perks', no different than most other crowdfunding campaigns where you're donation gets you some kind of 'reward' but no guarantees it will ever eventuate or you will ever get anything of value back


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## Maheel (27/4/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> With a potential of 20,000 owners you would need a big family.
> I would like to know what the $500,000 is going to be used for, have they got a brewery, is it for a brewery, why did the banks not lend them the money?


Reading the page it seems they have little more than an idea / plan (and likely some HB experience) and plan to use the 1st 250K (1000investors) to buy brewery equip and lease location.

Banks want you to have a lot of equity / assets = your own $$$$$ / or some sort of income for a start up to lend money to them as it's high risk to them.

IMO there is little reward for my $$$ (if i was NSW), if they said a few free pints a week (3or4) for ever instead of 6% return then maybe i would be handing over my $$ 

not "knocking them" as it seems a reasonable idea just the payback to "me" is not high/valuable enough to me.
I read it with my cynical eye's that they may hope i forget about the money i give them to set themselves up a nice brewery for free ?


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## droid (27/4/16)

it would be interesting to see the business plan and terms/conditions and or contract in detail ... and within that the definition of "owner"


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## Roosterboy (27/4/16)

SBOB said:


> its a good idea if you want to help a couple of guys start their brewery, in the hopes that
> - it will be succesful
> - you'll get a small discount on some growler fills and
> - 'if' they ever become profitable after whatever operating expenses they have and have 6 months of operational costs in the bank, you might see some small dividend
> ...


Like any business venture there are no guarantees , there are few things that give you any reward without risk. The reward may only be a bit more than knowing you helped form a business .


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## spog (27/4/16)

Sounds interesting to me,having read all the above posts but not the Hopster site.
Still interesting all the same.


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## Roosterboy (27/4/16)

Co-ops can work , look up top ten Co-ops in Australia, their foundations are not based on individual greed but more a community spirit.
I'm going to suggest to them that they put up a "founding members plaque" with the first 100 members names on it, somewhere in the
brewery. I don't know about anyone else but imagine if you had your name up on the wall in Cascade Brewery as a founding member
for your descendants to see.


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## Yob (28/4/16)

already there from what I read


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## Hopsters (28/4/16)

Hi guys. This is Marco from Hopsters Co-op Brewery. Thanks for the comments and feedback. We will take them into consideration. Any questions please kindly ask me here or via email: [email protected]
We are six founders and we are creating Australia's First Cooperative Brewery for you, the home brewers of Australia and the local communities where the breweries are located. One of the main objectives of the cooperative is to become an incubator for home brewers who want to master their craft and launch their ow brand/brewery. The cooperative will have two systems. One commercial brewery and one pilot brewery. To be honest Hopsters Co-Op Brewery is much bigger than any of the six founders. Cheers guys.


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## Yob (28/4/16)

But only open to NSW residents, you're giving yourself a fair restriction there.


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## wide eyed and legless (28/4/16)

Is Mica Rees back in Australia?


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## Mardoo (28/4/16)

From the website it looks like it's a cooperative from the drinker's perspective, but not from the perspective of the brewing. Sounds like they've started a business based on customer input, rather than a cooperative business, where all the workers own the business and contribute equally. Might be of interest if you lived in the neighbourhood. Cute idea. Just darling...


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## wide eyed and legless (28/4/16)

I would like to know what if any is the affiliation with Hopsters in MA, are they a co-operative also?
Six founder members, surely between 6 they could organise a loan of $500,000, its not a large sum, are they asking for a promise of payment, or the actual payment, what happens to the money if targets aren't met, sucked up into admin costs?
It is beyond me why someone would want the headaches of starting a business only to find that at the first AGM they could be out on their ear and someone else takes over.


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## Mardoo (28/4/16)

I'm guessing it's just crowdfunding. I sincerely doubt the organisational structure is actually as a cooperative.


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## wide eyed and legless (28/4/16)

If I was interested which I am not I would be doing a quick check with ASIC, they could be based in Nigeria for all we know.


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## DU99 (28/4/16)

wonder if they tried the "shark tank" with their idea


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## Hopsters (28/4/16)

For a brewery truly rooted in the community, consider forming a cooperative 
http://microbrewr.com/for-brewery-truly-rooted-community-consider-forming-cooperative/


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## Yob (28/4/16)

Mardoo said:


> I'm guessing it's just crowdfunding. I sincerely doubt the organisational structure is actually as a cooperative.


I wonder if the 'free pints per week' are cumulative and don't expire, go once every 8 weeks...

It's an interesting idea, 'paid' members are more like a captured client, if they've paid in, they're more likely to be return customers but I think the catchment will be too small personally...


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## n87 (28/4/16)

Do you get your own pint glass hanging up on the wall?
I have seen alot of bars/brew pubs with this type of thing where you get your glass (usually personalised) and you get a discount, or only need to pay for a schooner/midi to fill it etc.


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## kaiserben (28/4/16)

Hopsters said:


> One of the main objectives of the cooperative is to become an incubator for home brewers who want to master their craft and launch their ow brand/brewery. The cooperative will have two systems. One commercial brewery and one pilot brewery. To be honest Hopsters Co-Op Brewery is much bigger than any of the six founders. Cheers guys.


This is better. Much more how I expect a co-op to operate. But this info isn't mentioned anywhere on the website that I could see. All the available info suggests is that the best members can hope for is to have 1 vote in >1000 when considering what beers to brew, which I guess some people might get a kick out of, but is useless for anyone wanting to take their own brewing to the next level.


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## Hopsters (28/4/16)

Hello, the first 100 members will have a plaque and a customised mug at the brewery.
Will update the website about the home brewers incubator.
Any feedback is good, this is the beginning of the co-op guys, we have not taken any money from anyone yet until we secure the site, which will be in Leichhardt, just working with the town planner and the owners.

Hopsters Co-Op brewery will be:

A community brewery.
A place where people can get together, drink awesome fresh, cold and delicious beer, learn about beer, how it is made and also brew beer ( if they like ), we will have a full commercial brewery and a pilot brewery consisting of 10 x 50 liters kettles where our members can brew beer, even ginger beer with the kids on Sunday's. 
The creator and main supporter behind Craft Inner West, a monthly event to promote everything craft in the Leichhardt Council and Sydney Inner West.
An incubator to our home brewers members, we will support them so they can create their own beer brand or even their own brewery when they are ready to take that step while using the co-op assets and resources. This will be a partnership between the co-op and the new beer brand.
Your Brewery.
Hopster's Co-op Brewery is getting close to its first meeting, for the last several weeks we have been working hard on the business plan, getting quotes for the brewery equipment, looking for suitable locations and we have founded one in Leichhardt, now talking to the town planner and getting the co-op legal before we sell any memberships.

We look forward to meeting you and welcome you as a member-owner of the best craft brewery in Sydney.

Please email us on [email protected] so we can add you to our data base to keep the communication flowing, we have over 100 founding members ready to go as we speak as soon as we are ready and confirmed the location for the brewery, 99% it will be on the Leichhardt site.

At the moment, there is no link to buy a membership on www.hopsters.com.au, but we will have it activated soon.

With warm regards,Ross, Andrew, Louie, Bob, Bart and Marco


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## Mardoo (28/4/16)

I should have been more specific. I was responding to the takeover comment and should have said "I sincerely doubt the organisational structure is actually as a worker-owned cooperative." 

I see a reasonable difference between crowdfunding and a consumer-owned cooperative. Depends on the execution, really. I've been very involved in three consumer cooperatives, and one worker-owned cooperative. In one of the consumer ones the consumers decided all products that were sold by the cooperative and did all the work that was not management. Management consisted mostly of ordering products and arranging distribution. In the second and third you had to do two 2-hour shifts a week to access products and prices, and had an equal say to management in the direction of the overall business. They were all not-for-profit businesses. 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like a for-profit business with some level of customer participation. Giving back to the community is just good business. 

Don't get me wrong, sounds like you all are going to make a great little brewpub that intends to participate in the community. I'd likely participate if I were in the area. I'm just not sure it's yet true to the spirit of cooperatives. Brewdog gives plenty back to its community and works to incubate new Brewers, as well as give back to and take input from the people who help fund it. However it's distinctly for-profit. Nothing wrong with that. Co-ops can be hell to run.


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## DU99 (28/4/16)

i gather the beer is ALL GRAIN..not extract


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## Weizguy (28/4/16)

I'm surprised that so many Victorians have so many opinions about a NSW venture, and I can't see that you are excluded by anything other than distance.

Is it a slow news day there?


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## Yob (28/4/16)

Les, it says it's open only to NSW residents..


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## Mardoo (29/4/16)

We might be a bunch of fussy cnuts...


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## MichaelM (29/4/16)

Brew dog in the UK raised capital for their expansion in a similar way through crowd funding. Shareholders don't have access to brewing on their brew houses but can attend the Agm and special event. It seems to have worked for them. I am guessing some of their crazy stunts and award winning beers also had something to do with their success.


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## Yob (29/4/16)

brew dog are a bit different to a cold start with 6 unknown folks with their hand out...

I read the brewdog release through, didn't excite me either..


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## Roosterboy (29/4/16)

It just came to me, if you are a part owner in a Co-Op , but you live outside Sydney. Can you claim a tax deduction for the travel costs to check
your investment in the Brewery , if you visit it when you come to Sydney ?


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## Velu (29/4/16)

From reading the website it looks like anyone (from anywhere in Australia) can be a member for $250 (with a vote), but an investor (no additional voting power, preferred shares, shares are $100) can only come from NSW. And investors must be members. 
Like others I can't really see the value of being a member if your not in the area, and I can't really wrap my head around how it could be run as a co-operative. BUT, if I had a spare $250 and was even contemplating taking my homebrew to a professional stage, then it might be money well spent. At the very least you would be able to read the business plan, see what beer styles sell (and which don't), have a good look at a couple of brew days, see (or better volunteer if possible) with packaging and cleaning etc.


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## wide eyed and legless (29/4/16)

Far better if you wanted to do something with $250, is donate it to the parents of a child who are trying to raise a squillion dollars to take a terminally ill child for lifesaving treatment in America, and feel a whole lot better for knowing it has gone somewhere useful.


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## bootlegnjack (3/5/16)

Good on them for having a go if it was in Brissy I'd be interested . I can understand the scepticism but it doesn't seem like a Nigerian scheme to me, sounds like a fun way to spend a Saturday to learn and hang with other brewers. Why not.


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## Roosterboy (14/12/16)

Well , I spent $250 and now I'm a share holder in Australia's first co-op Brewery. As for there are more useful things to do with $ 250 as wide eyed .. said , yes
there are . But as someone who works in a Hospital and battles everyday within a deliberately broken system and saving lives has more to do with ideology than
financial constraints , I think spending money to look forward to something and taking your mind off your day job is a justifiable .
What other things can cost you $250 , concert tickets maybe, stopping in a clear way $248 , a keg of crappy beer ??
You won't find many cheaper ways to be part of a start-up business ( any business has risks ) but breweries have a better chance than most in the current market.
The Hopsters are after member now.


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## wide eyed and legless (14/12/16)

To be honest Roosterboy I have come across these scams  schemes before, first off, like has been mentioned previously where is the business plan? If it is going to be a money spinner why share it? Surely a group of six could raise the money to get a brewery up and running without putting it out to a co-operative, just do as most other breweries do, start off small and grow at the pace success allows.
I do not think that you are battling a hospital system that has been deliberately broken, what you are battling is an increase in the sick and elderly that the system can't cope with. I attend treatment every 3 weeks and I see the pressure the oncology units are under.
But $250 isn't a lot of money to have a flutter with if you really believe that you will get a return for investment good luck to you, I just think there will be some disappointments, but only time will tell.


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