# Munich Helles



## Samuel Adams (28/11/15)

1D. Munich Helles
*Aroma:* Pleasantly grainy-sweet, clean Pils malt aroma dominates. Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop aroma, and a low background note of DMS (from Pils malt). No esters or diacetyl.
*Appearance:* Medium yellow to pale gold, clear, with a creamy white head.
*Flavor:* Slightly sweet, malty profile. Grain and Pils malt flavors dominate, with a low to medium-low hop bitterness that supports the malty palate. Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop flavor. Finish and aftertaste remain malty. Clean, no fruity esters, no diacetyl.
*Mouthfeel:* Medium body, medium carbonation, smooth maltiness with no trace of astringency.
*Overall Impression:* Malty but fully attenuated Pils malt showcase.
*Comments:* Unlike Pilsner but like its cousin, Munich Dunkel, Helles is a malt-accentuated beer that is not overly sweet, but rather focuses on malt flavor with underlying hop bitterness in a supporting role.
*History:* Created in Munich in 1895 at the Spaten brewery by Gabriel Sedlmayr to compete with Pilsner-style beers.
*Ingredients:* Moderate carbonate water, Pilsner malt, German noble hop varieties.

*Vital Statistics*:

OG: 1.045 – 1.051

IBUs: 16 – 22

FG: 1.008 – 1.012

SRM: 3 – 5

ABV: 4.7 – 5.4%
*Commercial Examples:* Weihenstephaner Original, Hacker-Pschorr Münchner Gold, Bürgerbräu Wolznacher Hell Naturtrüb, Mahr's Hell, Paulaner Premium Lager, Spaten Premium Lager, Stoudt's Gold Lager




Anyone have a good recipe for this style ?

I really like Weihenstephaner Helles & Paulaner Lager and would like to brew something similar.
I'm wondering if much of the flavour comes from the yeast because I'd like to cheat and use Notto or 189 at low ale temps.

I was thinking something like this...

90% Pils 
5% Carapils
5% Carahell or Caramunich I

15 IBU of Magnum @ 60
5 IBU of Hal Mit @ cube

Notto @ 15*c


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## Coodgee (28/11/15)

I do a nice one with 95% pils 4% carapils 1% melanoiden. One 60 minute addition of saaz to 20 ibu. The secret is wyeast 2112 yeast fermented at 13 degrees. Finishes nice and malty. At about 1014. And lager at 0 for 10 weeks if you can. All the flavors fade leaving only a malty caramel flavor.


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## slcmorro (28/11/15)

If there was one tip I'd give you, it's use a proper German lager yeast. Notto won't cut it if you're going for an authentic crack.

I used the Whitelabs Kolsch in mine which won a gold this year, and gave it a really good long lagering period.


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## Samuel Adams (28/11/15)

I realise to make a great Helles you'll most likely need a lager yeast. I'd just like to see how close I can get with an ale yeast & fermentation schedule.
I'll have a crack, report back & may try a lager yeast down the track.


Still keen to hear peoples recipes, hints & tips etc


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## kaiserben (30/11/15)

I'm assuming Lowenbrau Original is a Helles?

I really like it's sweetness. 

Hopefully someone posts up a clone recipe ...


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## Blind Dog (30/11/15)

slcmorro said:


> If there was one tip I'd give you, it's use a proper German lager yeast. I used the Whitelabs Kolsch in mine which won a gold this year, and gave it a really good long lagering period.


I think I'm missing something? So using a kolsch yeast won you a gold, but using a lager yeast is your one tip? Presumably 'cos you don't want the competition next year?


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## dicko (30/11/15)

Here is one I have done a few times.....

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/34594/sitzung-helles-zymurgy-2012-aha-gold

I use Saaz at FWH to 19 ibu insread of rhe Hallatau and I use a 34/70 dry lager yeast.

I use very soft water with no Calcium Sulphate and lager it for 3 or 4 weeks.

This beer is very close to the Haufbrau Original.


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## The Judge (30/11/15)

If you want to do a proper Munich Helles, use Spalt hops. Give it a proper long lager (I'm talking months, weeks is not long enough). And boil the sheeeez out of it so that you definitely dont get any DMS. Yeast I would use is Munich strain WLP860 or the Boho yeast WLP800 as a substitute.


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## kunfaced (30/11/15)

I don't think you will get the malt profile you are looking for unless you are doing a decoction mash. Maybe some munich malt and a bit of melanoidin malt instead of the caramunich.


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## Samuel Adams (30/11/15)

dicko said:


> Here is one I have done a few times.....
> 
> http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/34594/sitzung-helles-zymurgy-2012-aha-gold
> 
> ...


How do you achieve soft water ? Filter ?
Would boiling the water first work at all ?



The Judge said:


> If you want to do a proper Munich Helles, use Spalt hops. Give it a proper long lager (I'm talking months, weeks is not long enough). And boil the sheeeez out of it so that you definitely dont get any DMS. Yeast I would use is Munich strain WLP860 or the Boho yeast WLP800 as a substitute.


Spalt hey, listed as THE hop for an Alt but nothing about Helles. Since I have Hallertau I'll probably use them for this one at least.
I'll be boiling for 90 mins for sure. Never had DMS issues until my last beer with pils so now I will always give it 90 min.
I'm still wondering what lager yeasts bring to the table, if all I'm after is a clean neutral flavour that lets the malt shine I reckon an ale yeast could do the job. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. 



kunfaced said:


> I don't think you will get the malt profile you are looking for unless you are doing a decoction mash. Maybe some munich malt and a bit of melanoidin malt instead of the caramunich.


I forgot to put melanoidin in my recipe. Never done a decoction so I might give it a go, it does look fun albeit time consuming.
The BJCP lead me towards the all pils base otherwise I'd put 10-20% munich in it. Maybe the good ones are all pils with a triple decoction to boot !


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## RobW (30/11/15)

Samuel Adams said:


> I'm still wondering what lager yeasts bring to the table, if all I'm after is a clean neutral flavour that lets the malt shine I reckon an ale yeast could do the job. Tell me if you think I'm wrong.


Definitely use a lager teast and ferment it at the correct temperature to get a nice crisp finish.

That said I know there are some brewers who achieve good results with a clean ale yeast like US05 fermented at 16oC.

Cheers

Rob


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## kunfaced (30/11/15)

Samuel Adams said:


> I'm still wondering what lager yeasts bring to the table, if all I'm after is a clean neutral flavour that lets the malt shine I reckon an ale yeast could do the job. Tell me if you think I'm wrong.


If you were to do it proper, wyeast octoberfest 2633 lager blend would probably fit what you are describing here, otherwise as mentioned above either the white labs or wyeast kolsch style strains will do fine. They are both ale strains but do even better from a solid cold storage period. I personally love stirring up some kolsch yeast in my beer though, some tasty critters.


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## dicko (30/11/15)

Samuel Adams,

I use a Reverse Osmosis filter and add salts / acid back for each respective brew as required to achieve the correct Mash PH.

You could use rain water provided that it is from a clean source. You can treat it as RO water and add salts as required.

I only add Calcium Chloride if I am making a pils / lager style of beer.

As far as hops are concerned any German hop will do the trick as long as you are not heavy handed in the Helles style.
I have done this beer with Saaz, Tettnang, Hallertau and Perle, I have even got one waiting to hit the fermenter fridge with Moeteka in it.
Saaz, so far is my favourite but the Moeteka tastes interesting from the kettle sample.

Before you go to the trouble of a decoction process, give that recipe a go with an S 189....I think you may be surprised...after all it did win gold at an AHA comp in the USA.


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## dicko (30/11/15)

Here is my actual recipe if you are interested;



Recipe: 078 SITZUNG HELLES No Chill
Brewer: 
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Munich Helles
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 30.40 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 25.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 77.0 %
Boil Time: 80 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
33.55 l RO WATER Blank Canvas Water 1 - 
8.00 g 02 Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 - 
3.00 ml 07 Phosphoric Acid 85%Food Grade (Mash 6 Water Agent 3 - 
3.00 kg Bo Pilsener (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM) Grain 4 58.1 % 
1.90 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 5 36.8 % 
0.15 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 % 
0.06 kg Biscuit Malt, Dingemans (35.5 SRM) Grain 7 1.1 % 
0.06 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.1 % 
55.00 g Saaz Czech T 90 [3.00 %] - First Wort 60 Hop 9 19.9 IBUs 
4.00 g 11 BREW BRITE (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 10 - 
1.0 pkg Saflager Lager (DCL/Fermentis #W-34/70) Yeast 11 - 
4.00 g 14 POLYCLAR (Secondary 1.0 days) Fining 12 - 


Mash Schedule: Braumeister Mash Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.16 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperatu Step Time 
Dough In Add 33.56 l of water and heat to 38.0 C 38.0 C 1 min 
Mash Step Heat to 67.0 C over 29 min 67.0 C 60 min 
Mash Step Heat to 72.0 C over 5 min 72.0 C 20 min 
Mash Step Heat to 77.0 C over 5 min 77.0 C 30 min


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## kunfaced (30/11/15)

That recipe looks damn tasty


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## MitchD (30/11/15)

I took 2nd at nationals this year with this:

90% Pilsner
7% Munich
3% Victory

OG 1.046
FG 1.010

18 IBU Hallertau @60

Mash:
50c-15
64c-60
72c-15
78c-10

60 Minute boil

WLP 838 @:
12 Until ~1.015
17 Until 1.010
0 ~ 2 weeks
Bottled with sugar and stored at garage temp until comp time.

This is a beer with nowhere to hide, correct mash schedule and yeast strain are the key.


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## Samuel Adams (2/12/15)

Cheers for the replies & recipes guys !

I'm going to try this soon while it's hot;

BIAB no chill

OG 1.050
FG 1.010

5 kg (90.9%) Pils
250g (4.5%) Carapils
125g (2.3%) Caramunich I
125g (2.3%) Melanoidin

10g Magnum @ 60 for 15 IBU
30 g Hallertau @ Cube for 5 IBU

S-189 @ 14-15c (I've read that this lager yeast behaves well at temps up to 15c)

Mash 65 for 90 min
Raise to mash out at 78

Then when winter comes I'll give it a go with Wyeast 2352 Munich lager II at 12*c and see the difference.


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## kaiserben (11/4/16)

Brewed this on the weeked: 

Target OG 1.048 (actual 1.046) 
Target FG 1.013

91.9% Pils Malt 
3.1% Acidulated Malt 
2.5% Munich 1
2.5% Melanoidin 

Mash:
55C for 10 min,
63C for 30 min, 
72C for 40 min, 
76C for 10 min. 

90 minute boil
9.5g Magnum @ 75 minutes (for 13.5 IBUs) 
10g Tettnang @ 40 minutes (for 3.3 IBUs) 
10g Tettnang @ 15 minutes (for 1.8 IBUs) 
Whirfloc @ 5mins

Chilled wort down to ~9C
Pitched WLP830 that I'd pre-prepared a starter with. 

Plan on leaving fridge set at 10C till gravity reaches 1.016/17 (might raise it up to 11C if I'm feeling Spinal Tap). Then raise fridge temp to 17C for 5 days. Then, assuming it has fermented out by that stage, I'll lower temp and then hold at 1C for 1 week before bottling. 3 weeks at room temp to carbonate, then into fridge for 3 months.


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## Weizguy (11/4/16)

Samuel Adams said:


> Cheers for the replies & recipes guys !
> 
> I'm going to try this soon while it's hot;
> 
> ...


Results?
I have Munich Lager II going at the moment. Please tell me how fantastic it is.


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## droid (11/4/16)

so help a bruvva out here,

you guys have won comps for this style - a style that historically at least, requires a decoction, and you haven't done one?

you've achieved the malty profile that a decoction achieves by using other grains or wot?


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## Samuel Adams (12/4/16)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Results?
> I have Munich Lager II going at the moment. Please tell me how fantastic it is.


Sorry I can't comment on the Munich lager yeast as I haven't even brewed the dry yeast version yet, so slack h34r:

I have been thinking about it though and I'm going to go with just Pils & Melanoidin and see if that is malty enough.


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## ctagz (12/4/16)

droid said:


> so help a bruvva out here,
> 
> you guys have won comps for this style - a style that historically at least, requires a decoction, and you haven't done one?
> 
> you've achieved the malty profile that a decoction achieves by using other grains or wot?


Pretty sure it's the melanoidin malt they're adding...


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## Weizguy (12/4/16)

ctagz said:


> Pretty sure it's the melanoidin malt they're adding...


Me too. I think that's why Jamil adds a couple % of melanoidin. Kind of a cheat's decoction.
I may try the recipe from BCS for my second attempt.
Just concept-testing the ball valve in my 150 litre kettle now, and I have cleaned up my conical that Droid I and bought from Brewnut.
Getting closer to my first 70 litre batch of Helles.
Loved the flavour last time I made this wort.
91% Pils
5% CaraHell
4% Acidulated.
20 IBU of Perle pellets


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