# Beer font PVC vs stainless, cost vs heat efficiency.



## claypot (15/12/16)

[SIZE=medium]Hey all,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’ve just bought a Hisense 205lt chest freezer to convert to a kegerator.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I plan to have 4 taps mounted to a font. The kegerator will either be in the shed or outside.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’m most likely going with a soccer goal shape, 2 posts with 2 elbows and a straight section with the taps in.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If not this then it will be a 1 post T.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The cooling of the beer lines to the taps will be done with a glycol reservoir in the Kegerator, a 12v pump will circulate the glycol around a copper pipe that will loop around the font returning to the reservoir via a heat sink. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The 4 beer lines will be silver taped to the copper then wrapped in high density foam insulation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’m going to have the pump on a timer with set times.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I’m just deciding on the merits of PVC vs Stainless.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]What’s not to like about a nice shinny stainless one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If I use the keg King tri clover flooded one it comes to well over $300 without the taps.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I can’t justify flooding the font with glycol as far as the running cost and efficiency goes as it will be just me using it during the week. A font this big trying to cool my shed doesn’t make sense, plus trying to keep the glycol cool without freezing the beer may be challenging. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So if I go with stainless I will use the above setup with the copper pipe. I think the stainless will still heat up and transfer the heat into the taps though.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]As far as cost goes I can build one with tri clover pipes, elbows and fittings with some welding from ebay for around $150.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I like the Idea of using PVC for the heat efficiency and cost. It’s just that most of the ones I’ve seen look homemade if ya know what I mean.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The other thing is I don’t think it would be as sturdy as a stainless one.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If I was only having 1 or 2 taps the 1 post PVC one would be perfect, but I think a 4 tap one is to crowded.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Does anyone have a none flooded stainless font in a warm area? How does it go?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If anyone has any thoughts or done similar with feedback, that would be awesome,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Cheers.[/SIZE]


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## husky (15/12/16)

I have a non flooded stainless font that I blow cool air from the keezer through. Works ok so far, I just turn it on for the night when Im using it. It takes a while to chill but eventually it does frost up and draw condensate. The first part of a glass can be foamy early on but works fine for me.


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## claypot (16/12/16)

Sweet cheers mate, I guess the first pour is always a bit foamy any way till the tap cools down, I reckon I might go with the stainless.


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## mr_wibble (16/12/16)

Mine lives outside, under a tarp - 2x stainless steel fonts with 3x taps on each.
In the summer sun they get hot, simple as that.
I had a couple of different font fans, I don't think they made a whole lot of difference, but it is a big ask.
The fonts have squishy black foam insulation around the inside, and the pipes run through this.

I was thinking myself about making a goalpost font out of copper pipe, that might polish up nicely.
I imagined I could make a huge copper-pipe spring that fit inside, and I could pump glycol around that.
Probably need to sit the whole thing in a giant tea-cosy when not in use. But at least it would keep the taps and full lines cold.


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## claypot (3/1/17)

So look what arrived today...
Not bad sent on the 17th Dec ex China or so I thought. Package says sent from Botany Bay Sydney. Was sent startrack too. Around $140 all up, just need to drill holes, what could possibly go wrong!! Finish and quality looks good too.


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## bevan (3/1/17)

claypot said:


> So look what arrived today...
> Not bad sent on the 17th Dec ex China or so I thought. Package says sent from Botany Bay Sydney. Was sent startrack too. Around $140 all up, just need to drill holes, what could possibly go wrong!! Finish and quality looks good too.


That looks great! Are you able to post the link to where you got it all from?
Cheers
Bevan


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## Tex083 (3/1/17)

Looks good mate, where did you get that from?


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## claypot (3/1/17)

Yep was from this mob.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121658173011?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://stores.ebay.com.au/2014online/

Was surprised it all went so well really, plus it wasn't supposed to arrive till Feb so pretty stoked.


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## claypot (3/1/17)

Other point to note is this is all 2" which is as small as you'd want to go. But is the same size kegking use and theirs is $$$.
If you want bigger then again its more $$.


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## bwhouse (4/1/17)

Looks awesome, how are you planing on drilling the holes?


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## Maheel (4/1/17)

i have used that ebay seller, always 100% ok  

where you have marked your "outer" tap holes might be "harder" to drill from the welding on the ends


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## claypot (4/1/17)

I'm going to try a carbide tipped hole saw. Will test first on some similar pipe. I have a 20mm one but relly need 22mm so will have to file / die grind out a bit.
Good point on the welds cheers. The length is shorter than I'd liked for 4 taps. But the next length was to long. Taps end up 85mm apart.


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## claypot (5/1/17)

Drilled surprisingly well with the carbide tipped saw. Opening up the holes from 20mm to 22mm sucked balls. Given the clean cut if I was to do it again I'd buy a 22mm saw,as only needed a quick de-bur.


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## claypot (24/3/17)

A few more pics of the nearly finished font.
I attached the pipes to the base of the marine ply by welding a piece of stainless 6mm thread to the pipe (2 each pipe base) then drilling the marine ply and countersinking to allow nut to be below the timber surface.
Then screwed timber and font to the lid of the freezer. I did it this way to ensure the font was pulled nice and sturdily up to the marine ply, worked well. 
Copper pipe yet to be attached to glycol pump. Beer flows very cool with out it so far.
I have trialled 1 SS FC Intertap, super happy with it and will get 3 more. Choke back flow for first pour, cools tap then increase flow, no beer wasted.


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## claypot (8/2/18)

Finally complete!


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## Jangles (9/9/18)

Love your font mate , Have been contemplating different fonts now for awhile and ideally would like to make one but obviously wanted it to look the goods , and I think you've done a really good job on both here . Just wondering how the glycol chiller works for you ? Considering wether to build my own or to just install some font fans but not to sure … would you change anything if you wee to build again ?


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## Boxcar (10/9/18)

Bit of a necro-post, but since it's revived, I might as well chime in. I took delivery of the parts for my new font before taking off on holiday early last month. It'll be constructed from 4" TC parts. I hadn't seen anyone else make one out of TC parts when I ordered mine, so this thread is a bit of a treat.

2x 12" long spools horizontal + 90 elbow + 12" long spool vertical. To secure the vertical to the bar-top, I plan to weld a wider SS flange onto one of the spool to allow greater support of the heavy overhang.

The design was originally going to install on top of my keezer but I scrapped that idea and instead made some room to relocate the refrigeration. Now I'll have a more standard bar cabinet/top to mount the font with the product being fed via a 4 foot trunk (python) line from the remotely located keezer. This greatly simplified the keezer and the second/final stage of my build-out.


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## claypot (10/9/18)

Jangles said:


> Love your font mate , Have been contemplating different fonts now for awhile and ideally would like to make one but obviously wanted it to look the goods , and I think you've done a really good job on both here . Just wondering how the glycol chiller works for you ? Considering wether to build my own or to just install some font fans but not to sure … would you change anything if you wee to build again ?



Cheers mate, It was a PITA to fit the 2 middle tap hose tail mounts but do able.

Fans would definatly be easier for the font cooling but I thought the frezeer chiller would have to run more, if that doesnt worry you then I'd go with a fan for font cooling, much easier.
The glycol chiller works well enough if I turn it on prior, not sure if it was worth all the set up, but I like a good project challange. I actually havent even got round to using glycol, still just using a salt water brine mix!


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## koshari (10/9/18)

anyone got any detailed pics of where ther have shanks entering the 2" cross section? what methods are available for fitting the shanks to the the font other than the k-loc style connector?

can you just weld a 5/8 stainless socket to the font and use a locknut on the shank?

can you even get 5/8" sockets????

or i assume you use short chanks with the wave profile collar given you drilled 22mm holes?






and another question, how difficult is it to open the lid of the keezer with the font tower attached to change kegs?


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## Jangles (10/9/18)

Boxcar said:


> Bit of a necro-post, but since it's revived, I might as well chime in. I took delivery of the parts for my new font before taking off on holiday early last month. It'll be constructed from 4" TC parts. I hadn't seen anyone else make one out of TC parts when I ordered mine, so this thread is a bit of a treat.
> 
> 2x 12" long spools horizontal + 90 elbow + 12" long spool vertical. To secure the vertical to the bar-top, I plan to weld a wider SS flange onto one of the spool to allow greater support of the heavy overhang.
> 
> The design was originally going to install on top of my keezer but I scrapped that idea and instead made some room to relocate the refrigeration. Now I'll have a more standard bar cabinet/top to mount the font with the product being fed via a 4 foot trunk (python) line from the remotely located keezer. This greatly simplified the keezer and the second/final stage of my build-out.



Wow 4" let us know how you go there mate , How many taps you running on to that ? Obviously have plenty of room for plumbing/lagging which cannot hurt I guess


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## claypot (10/9/18)

koshari said:


> anyone got any detailed pics of where ther have shanks entering the 2" cross section? what methods are available for fitting the shanks to the the font other than the k-loc style connector?
> 
> can you just weld a 5/8 stainless socket to the font and use a locknut on the shank?
> 
> ...



"can you just weld a 5/8 stainless socket to the font and use a locknut on the shank?"
I guess you could, but would have to rely on thread tape to seal it or get creative making a seal, the fitting you attached is what I used, it seals to the tap via a silicone seal, allowing easy removal for cleaning tap, and resealing and alinement. I wouldn't use a welded socket for these reasons. The above fitting is just an easy cheap solution IMA.

" how difficult is it to open the lid of the keezer with the font tower attached to change kegs"
I've got my freezer on caster wheels and is up against a wall, simply pull out away from wall and gently open lid font isnt that heavy that it stresses the hinges or balance. make beer lines long enough and ensure they lay out the way when closing, I keep random stubbies and 2lt drafto growler in there and grab them as needed easy enough.


@Boxcar
" I plan to weld a wider SS flange onto one of the spool to allow greater support of the heavy overhang."

Yep I gave this alot of thought, with drunken mates in mind. As I was going to put it against the wall I didn't go that way and thought as I was only relying on the strenth of the ply wood there wasnt alot of gain as may of pulled through the thin ply with a big hit any way. I decided to just see how it went and would beef it up if I wasnt happy with the strenth but its actully OK, I like the clean lines with out the flange too.
If it ever fails I will probably spring for a thicker sheet of ply. I saw some bench top ply that was around 50mm at Bunnings last time, that they didn't have when I build mine that would of been sweet.


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## Boxcar (17/9/18)

claypot said:


> I decided to just see how it went and would beef it up if I wasnt happy with the strenth but its actully OK, I like the clean lines with out the flange too.



I definitely like the clean lines on your installation as well. You have the added advantage of two separate mounting points as your font is an "n" - with a "7" or sideways "L" and only one mounting point, plus large 4" piping I'm afraid the otherwise thin lip of the TC flange just isn't big enough to fit adequate bolts through - even welding from underneath there isn't much surface area.

I did come up with another idea that wouldn't involve welding. Using a 6" x 4" flat reducer, I could bolt that down and then simply clamp the upright to it. The only negative is it significantly increases the height of the font - I'd really have to swap out the 12" TC vertical spool for an 8" length. I like the benefit of keeping everything modular as I won't have tied up a spool permanently with a welded flange.

With 4" pipe there's a lot of room for lines and I'll initially have six 1/4" barrier/rigid product lines plus two 3/8 copper for glycol cooling. I'm using push-fit shanks from Krome Dispense (C-351) along with John Guest 90 degree adapters. For the back behind the nut I've purchased some plastic curved washers that are normally part of tower shanks. Need to make a design on cooling blocks to help increase the internal mass of the shanks and all the lines also fit in a foam sleeve that fills up most of the interior of the 4" pipe.


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## koshari (17/9/18)

Where did you get the curved washers?


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## Boxcar (17/9/18)

koshari said:


> Where did you get the curved washers?



Chi Company, Inside Flange, part number _12B03161_: https://www.chicompany.net/beer-sto...tower-shanks?zenid=p9ict71e4mu1pr55l1la8ke8n6


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## koshari (17/9/18)

Shame the part plus postage almost works out as much as a complete shsnk.


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