# Cyser (first Brew).



## kenour (2/4/11)

Hi All,

I'm Ken, and... I have a problem. I'm a hobbyholic, and it looks like I've just gone and gotten myself another one 

I have a few fruit tree's and a couple of bee hives on my property, and am always looking for new ways to preserve/use my produce.

Two weeks ago my friend around the corner was given a cider press by his father... So, we thought sure, lets make cider.

After a bit of research on the old Internet and quickly absorbing the basic principles I dove right on in (as I usual do)...

I decided I would make a cyser with mine due to an abundance of honey (I'll be making mead next!).

So, last weekend we pressed 4 x 40lt tubs or various apple varieties and 1 x 40lt tub of pears. We ended up with 40lt of juice that we split.

I extracted honey from one if my hives the weekend before and decided to add 2.5lt to my 20lt of juice and whacked it all in a 25lt fermenter with some SN9 yeast.

OG was 1.094 and is now 1.040, I had a cheeky taste after measuring the SG and apart from the slight sulphur tang, it's quite nice!

So, I'm wondering what to do now. I think keeping it about 7% ABV would be nice, keep some sweetness etc. Has a nice honey finish and a creamy mouthfeel, maybe a touch sweet, may let it go to 8%ish? I'm just not sure how to proceed.

I have some ideas, but would like to know what people with more than a weeks experience would do at this stage?

I understand that whacking it in the fridge stalls fermentation, but also want it carbonated when bottled.

Then there's all that racking and clearing stuff I hear so much about  So, little help anyone?

Cheers,

Ken.


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## Airgead (2/4/11)

kenour said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm Ken, and... I have a problem. I'm a hobbyholic, and it looks like I've just gone and gotten myself another one
> 
> ...



Hi Ken

Unfortunately, the place to decide how strong you want the brew is before you add the yeast. There are ways of stopping fermentation early but I wouldn't call any of them 100% reliable (those that are achievable at the home-brew level anyway). Whacking it in the fridge will work but only for as long as it stays cold. As soon as it warms up it will start fermenting again.

You are probably best letting it ferment right out then back sweetening as you serve (teaspoon of honey in the glass works well).

Stopping it at 1.040 will leave it VERY sweet. Generally a sweet cider will be 1.020 or less. Usually around 1.010-1.016. If you let it finish it will likely get down to 1.000 or close to that. 

You'll probably end up with something a lot stronger than you wanted, more wine strength. A nice aged cyser as a white wine is very very nice with dinner...

Cheers
Dave


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## SuiCIDER (2/4/11)

If you want it sweet and carbonated then your best bet is to either buy a kegging system or read up about bottle pasteurisation. There's a thread here where I describe the process but a quick google search will help out as well. As for 7%... I don't think so. 1.094 fermented dry will give you around 13% ABV. For 7% you will need to stop it at around 1.040 mark, which is usually much too sweet for the majority of people. Still, taste it and see what you think, it's all up for interpretation, everyone is different. Most people like to have a sweet cider at around 1.010 - 1.020.

Also, if you're smelling some sulfur you could always add some yeast nutrient in with some warm water.


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## Airgead (2/4/11)

I'll give my usual safety warning about bottle pasteurisation - heating pressurised glass bottles is really, REALLY dangerous. If you do this, use PET bottles or invest in one of those bomb disposal suits. Better still, just don't do it. Its really frickin dangerous. The beverage industry never, ever bottle pasteurises. 

Cheers
Dave


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## SuiCIDER (2/4/11)

I've never had a screw up. Yet, it is a good idea to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS.


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## kenour (2/4/11)

SuiCIDER said:


> If you want it sweet and carbonated then your best bet is to either buy a kegging system or read up about bottle pasteurisation. There's a thread here where I describe the process but a quick google search will help out as well. As for 7%... I don't think so. 1.094 fermented dry will give you around 13% ABV. For 7% you will need to stop it at around 1.040 mark, which is usually much too sweet for the majority of people. Still, taste it and see what you think, it's all up for interpretation, everyone is different. Most people like to have a sweet cider at around 1.010 - 1.020.
> 
> Also, if you're smelling some sulfur you could always add some yeast nutrient in with some warm water.



Thanks all for the replies guys. It's sitting at 1.040 at the moment, and yes, it's sweet alright  I might let it go a wee bit further to say 8%, I'm after a sweet robust cyser. If I was to rack it into a 23lt glass carboy with some campden tablets that should stop the yeast reproducing right? Or is that frowned upon? I would love to get something like a strongbow white 

I have looked at bottle pasteurisation, planned on doing it when I make pasata. So may give it a go.

So I suppose I want to achieve 3 things:
Stop fermentation at around 7-9%ish
Make it as clear as possible.
Have it sparkling.

I hear some people will rack and let it clear, then bottle it and let it continue to ferment for 24 hours (for bubbles), then heat pasteurise. I suppose I could pop it in the fridge now to stall fermentation and let it clear over a couple of weeks? Then rack into the carboy and let it clear for another couple of weeks in the fridge? Then bottle, let get warm 24 hours (for bubbles) then heat pasteurise? Have probably gone about this the wrong way...

I just fail to understand how you keep something sweet when the yeast just wants to convert all the sugars.

Maybe I should be asking how you would go about making a strong (7-9%), sweet, carbonated cyser from scratch and do that next time!

Cheers :beer:


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## Airgead (2/4/11)

kenour said:


> I just fail to understand how you keep something sweet when the yeast just wants to convert all the sugars.
> 
> Maybe I should be asking how you would go about making a strong (7-9%), sweet, carbonated cyser from scratch and do that next time!
> 
> Cheers :beer:



Ahhh... there you have it. One of the hardest problems in brewing.

With beers its easy to make something sweeter. Malt has a proportion of unfermentable sugars and you can control your mash etc to make more or less of those depending on whether you want a sweet or dry beer.

With ciders and meads, you basically have all fermentable sugar. The yeast will chew right through it and give you a dry brew.

There are a few ways around this - you can add some unfermentable sugar (lactose is popular but not for those who ate lactose intolerant). You can try to stop the yeast early using various techniques (with varying levels of effectiveness, ease and safety) or you can select a yeast strain that has a max alcohol tolerance lower than the potential alcohol in the starting wort. So if you have an alc% of 10% say, you select a yeast that tops out at 9% so you will end up with a 9% drink and some residual sugars. I do that all the time for sweet meads. The problem is that most yeasts will take up to 12% so this really only works for wines and because the yeast has topped out it won't carbonate naturally.

If I were you, the unfermentable sugar route would be the easiest and least prone to error. If you can't tolerate lactose (like my missus) there are other unfermentable sugars around. Apparently pear juice has a fairly high proportion of them so a percentage of pear juice in your cider will help. There are also *horror* artificial sweeteners that people also use.

Or you can learn to like dry cider...

Cheers
Dave


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## InCider (2/4/11)

Airgead said:


> Or you can learn to like dry cider...
> 
> Cheers
> Dave



I have. Now I rarely make a sweet cider at all! Champagne yeast is as dry as I could handle it but wine yeast works well.


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## kenour (2/4/11)

Airgead said:


> Apparently pear juice has a fairly high proportion of them so a percentage of pear juice in your cider will help.



This batch is about 1/5th pear juice, so that should help with the sweetness then. I'll just let it ferment out and see what I get.

I'll remember to use a low ABV tolerance yeast next time instead of champagne yeast, and make sure the mix isn't too sweet initially.

Instead of adding a teaspoon of sugar or carbonation drops, I'm planning on priming with honey.

Probably better to batch prime for as I'm planning on bottling into pint bottles, I saw a formula somewhere, so many cups of honey per gallon or something, will have to search again.

Whatever the result, this has been good fun an I'll definitely be doing it again... Especially since I just won this auction on eBay 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=300539546349

Cheers.


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## kenour (3/4/11)

InCider said:


> I have. Now I rarely make a sweet cider at all! Champagne yeast is as dry as I could handle it but wine yeast works well.



Will use CY17 next time  I did buy some, but chickened out at the last minute and went for Champagne (SN9 I'm told is Champagne?).


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## kenour (6/4/11)

Racked into a 23L carboy today, kind of a dehydrated piss yellow 

Had some trouble with the stopper popping out, even after drying thoroughly, it's all the local place had.

Had a look around and these seem to be the chop:
http://www.homebru.com.au/index.php?main_p...products_id=324

Can anyone vouch for them?


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## Greg.L (6/4/11)

You need to fill it right into the neck, right now you have too much headspace. It will take a few months to age to a smooth cider so keeping oxygen away is your main concern.

Greg


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## kenour (6/4/11)

Greg.L said:


> You need to fill it right into the neck, right now you have too much headspace. It will take a few months to age to a smooth cider so keeping oxygen away is your main concern.
> 
> Greg



That's all that came out of the fermenter unfortunately, are you saying I should top up with water or something?


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## Greg.L (6/4/11)

Water would be ok if you don't have any cider to use. You won't dilute it much and you started with a high OG anyway.
Oxygen is the enemy of cider, causes most of the problems that occur.

Greg


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## Airgead (6/4/11)

Judging by the colour its probably still fermenting a bit. In which case oxygen won't be a problem. The fermentation will produce enough co2 to purge the head space. Small amounts will leak in through the stopper and airlock but that will hapopen with a full to the top carboy anyway.

Cheers
Dave


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## kenour (6/4/11)

Airgead said:


> Judging by the colour its probably still fermenting a bit. In which case oxygen won't be a problem. The fermentation will produce enough co2 to purge the head space. Small amounts will leak in through the stopper and airlock but that will hapopen with a full to the top carboy anyway.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave



Yeah it is. Hadn't bubbled for a couple of days, but as soon as I racked started up for a couple of hours then stopped. I thought the CO2 would purge the O2 as it's still being created. I think after this clears I'll bottle directly from the carboy, if I can find somewhere to buy something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Siphon-Pump-Bee...F6/ref=lh_ni_t_
They won't deliver to Oz.


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## Greg.L (7/4/11)

If your going to bottle soon then it's not such an issue. I think cyser takes a fair while to clear, and needs a lot of ageing. Small volumes like 20L oxidise very easily and quickly, however if you like taking risks then go for it.

Greg


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## adryargument (7/4/11)

kenour said:


> Yeah it is. Hadn't bubbled for a couple of days, but as soon as I racked started up for a couple of hours then stopped. I thought the CO2 would purge the O2 as it's still being created. I think after this clears I'll bottle directly from the carboy, if I can find somewhere to buy something like this:
> http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Siphon-Pump-Bee...F6/ref=lh_ni_t_
> They won't deliver to Oz.



Any of the suppliers at the top of the page will be able to provide them.


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## kenour (7/4/11)

Greg.L said:


> If your going to bottle soon then it's not such an issue. I think cyser takes a fair while to clear, and needs a lot of ageing. Small volumes like 20L oxidise very easily and quickly, however if you like taking risks then go for it.
> 
> Greg



Whoa whoa whoa! Risks?  I'm quite risk averse. After all the hard work so far I don't want to botch my first batch. First of all, I don't know what risk I'm taking? Also, after identifying said risk, could one of you deft hands guide me in the right direction?


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## kenour (7/4/11)

adryargument said:


> Any of the suppliers at the top of the page will be able to provide them.



Thanks mate! Found it 
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8799

I'm after these too:
http://www.amazon.com/Drilled-Rubber-Stopp...6124&sr=8-1

Shattered they don't deliver to Oz either! 

Can't find them on any of the sponsor sites.


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## barls (7/4/11)

here are the bungs at grain and grape
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/index.php?cPath=1_30_35


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## Greg.L (7/4/11)

kenour said:


> Whoa whoa whoa! Risks?  I'm quite risk averse. After all the hard work so far I don't want to botch my first batch. First of all, I don't know what risk I'm taking? Also, after identifying said risk, could one of you deft hands guide me in the right direction?



The risk I am referring to is acetobacter getting into the headspace. Acetobacter live on the surface of the cider. You have a large surface area of contact between air and cyser, this is where acetobacter lives. If you fill right into the neck the surface area is tiny, and any reserves of oxygen negligible. Also oxygen can oxidise alcohol into acetaldehyde, which tastes horrible. This process doesn't need any bugs to help it.

Even though you have a good seal, you will probably open the carboy to test your cyser, letting air in. Air can also slowly infiltrate through the airlock. If your carboy is plastic, air can move through the walls. Experience shows that oxygen has a way of getting in despite our best efforts. If you have no headspace, you don't have to worry about any of this. Personally I think its worth it to add a bit of water or juice to make your chance of success much better.

Greg


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## barls (7/4/11)

marbles are another way to do it.


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## kevin_smevin (7/4/11)

Airgead said:


> I'll give my usual safety warning about bottle pasteurisation - heating pressurised glass bottles is really, REALLY dangerous. If you do this, use PET bottles or invest in one of those bomb disposal suits. Better still, just don't do it. Its really frickin dangerous. The beverage industry never, ever bottle pasteurises.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave



Hi Dave.

Not really on topic but i was sure that most large breweries did bottle pasteurize? I went to independent distillers last year and i'm sure that's exactly what they do, as to southern bay brewing and grand ridge brewery from memory. I might be wrong but i distinctly remember that one the product was bottled it went through the big thing that looked like a giant pizza oven (one of those ones with the conveyor belts - put pizza in one side and comes out cooked on the other). This was the pasteurizing unit which worked by spraying with hot water?? Happy to be corrected. Sorry this isn't really on topic


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## kenour (7/4/11)

barls said:


> here are the bungs at grain and grape
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/index.php?cPath=1_30_35



I'm pretty sure they're the standard rubber ones I have? Unless they're the silicon ones? Hard to tell with out a photo!!! 



Greg.L said:


> The risk I am referring to is acetobacter getting into the headspace. Acetobacter live on the surface of the cider. You have a large surface area of contact between air and cyser, this is where acetobacter lives. If you fill right into the neck the surface area is tiny, and any reserves of oxygen negligible. Also oxygen can oxidise alcohol into acetaldehyde, which tastes horrible. This process doesn't need any bugs to help it.
> 
> Even though you have a good seal, you will probably open the carboy to test your cyser, letting air in. Air can also slowly infiltrate through the airlock. If your carboy is plastic, air can move through the walls. Experience shows that oxygen has a way of getting in despite our best efforts. If you have no headspace, you don't have to worry about any of this. Personally I think its worth it to add a bit of water or juice to make your chance of success much better.
> 
> Greg



Interesting, well it's in glass at the moment and still fermenting (albeit slowly). But I'll be mindful not to disturb it much then. I'll let it clear in the current carboy then rack, prime and bottle and see what I get.




barls said:


> marbles are another way to do it.



Do tell?


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## barls (7/4/11)

you add the marbles to decrease the head space. it means that you dont dilute or need to add anything else.


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## kenour (7/4/11)

barls said:


> you add the marbles to decrease the head space. it means that you dont dilute or need to add anything else.



Ahh I see, nice one.

Ok, just thinking out loud here, if the objective is to keep out air, could adding a layer of a neutral flavoured oil do the trick?

Or would that retard one of the other magical processes that happens when things are fermenting and ageing?


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## Airgead (7/4/11)

yum yum yum said:


> Hi Dave.
> 
> Not really on topic but i was sure that most large breweries did bottle pasteurize? I went to independent distillers last year and i'm sure that's exactly what they do, as to southern bay brewing and grand ridge brewery from memory. I might be wrong but i distinctly remember that one the product was bottled it went through the big thing that looked like a giant pizza oven (one of those ones with the conveyor belts - put pizza in one side and comes out cooked on the other). This was the pasteurizing unit which worked by spraying with hot water?? Happy to be corrected. Sorry this isn't really on topic



:icon_offtopic: I've never seen a beverage manufacturer use bottle pasteurisation (worked in industrial control for years). If they pasteurise, they do it before the bottles are filled through a flash pasteuriser then force carb and fill. If all they want to do is settle yeast a lot will centrifuge instead. I did a quick search and indeed, you can get industrial bottle pasteurisation units. Well. Well. Never seen one. Possibly its on used a smaller scale than the flash units.

The issue with bottle pasteurisation is that you are heating a carbonated liquid inside a sealed container. As it warms, the pressure inside will rise. Glass bottles will hold some pressure but all it takes is a small flaw or scratch on one bottle and its shrapnel time. You can also blow the crown seals off. It may be feasible on an industrial scale when you know the quality of your bottles and have the whole thing calibrated (plus its all contained inside a big steel box if things do go foom) but on a homebrew scale where you are using whatever bottles you can get, have no idea what the pressure rating is, no idea how much pressure is inside the bottles and have very limited control over temp...

Cheers
Dave


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## kevin_smevin (8/4/11)

Airgead said:


> :icon_offtopic: I've never seen a beverage manufacturer use bottle pasteurisation (worked in industrial control for years). If they pasteurise, they do it before the bottles are filled through a flash pasteuriser then force carb and fill. If all they want to do is settle yeast a lot will centrifuge instead. I did a quick search and indeed, you can get industrial bottle pasteurisation units. Well. Well. Never seen one. Possibly its on used a smaller scale than the flash units.
> 
> The issue with bottle pasteurisation is that you are heating a carbonated liquid inside a sealed container. As it warms, the pressure inside will rise. Glass bottles will hold some pressure but all it takes is a small flaw or scratch on one bottle and its shrapnel time. You can also blow the crown seals off. It may be feasible on an industrial scale when you know the quality of your bottles and have the whole thing calibrated (plus its all contained inside a big steel box if things do go foom) but on a homebrew scale where you are using whatever bottles you can get, have no idea what the pressure rating is, no idea how much pressure is inside the bottles and have very limited control over temp...
> 
> ...



Excellent. Thanks for the info.


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## kenour (12/4/11)

It's really starting to clear now, I would like to rack again.

Looking at the process, I see some people purge the vessel being racked into with CO2 to limit oxygen contact.

Just wondering instead of buying a CO2 canister (or whatever you buy the CO2 in), could you just use dryice?

Drop a chunk in the carboy it's going into, and maybe even drop a chunk into the one you're racking from to create a barrier in the head space?

I suppose a cheap way of getting the small amount of CO2 required could be buying soda stream canisters? Just need a way to release it in a controlled fashion into the carboys? I assume putting it on top of a jiffy fire starter isn't the recommended way of getting it out  Ahh childhood!


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## Airgead (14/4/11)

kenour said:


> It's really starting to clear now, I would like to rack again.
> 
> Looking at the process, I see some people purge the vessel being racked into with CO2 to limit oxygen contact.
> 
> ...



That would probably work. There may be a risk of shattering a glass carboy though. They don't like thermal stress.

I usually only ever rack once for my cider. I let it clear in the primary then straight into a keg to mature. If I were bottling I would rack into a secondary for a few weeks to let it really clear up then bottle. I wouldn't rack more often than that.

Cheers
Dave


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## kenour (14/4/11)

After a bit more research it seems Argon might be the way to go. Gave my local BOC a quick call, can get 500lt of food grade Argon, a regulator and an application gun for $300! Bargain... 

http://winesave.com/ is a cheaper option, but you only get around 50 x 1 second 'squirts' for $20 (1 second squirts would do a wine bottle). You would probably use a 5 second squirt for a 6 gal carboy to create a layer thick enough to protect during racking and while aging.

Out of all of my hobbies, I think this one is becoming the most fun! So many gadgets!


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## Greg.L (14/4/11)

What you really need is an oxygen meter so you can test how much o2 is in the headspace. Or don't have a headspace.


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## Airgead (14/4/11)

kenour said:


> After a bit more research it seems Argon might be the way to go. Gave my local BOC a quick call, can get 500lt of food grade Argon, a regulator and an application gun for $300! Bargain...
> 
> http://winesave.com/ is a cheaper option, but you only get around 50 x 1 second 'squirts' for $20 (1 second squirts would do a wine bottle). You would probably use a 5 second squirt for a 6 gal carboy to create a layer thick enough to protect during racking and while aging.
> 
> Out of all of my hobbies, I think this one is becoming the most fun! So many gadgets!



Yeah... that might be a touch overkill. At least with a co2 setup (which will cost about the same) you can use it for kegging.

Or just don't have a headspace if you are that paranoid about o2. A few bags of glass marbles are a lot less than $300.

Cheers
Dave


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## kenour (14/4/11)

Airgead said:


> Or just don't have a headspace if you are that paranoid about o2.



Well I wasn't until all you bastards started warning me about it! 

The guy at BOC said that Bunnings sell Argon in smaller canisters like the winesave stuff, but it's 'industrial' and may not be food grade. I'll have to check it out next time I'm there. I actually had a great yarn with him, he used to be a hospitality manager and was involved with some testing of Argon somewhere with wine. Knew a whole lot about it and didn't mind sharing his experience, so I just let him talk and soaked it up.


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## kenour (14/4/11)

This is what it looks like today.





I waited for primary fermentation to finish in the plastic fermenter then racked to the carboy, but as you can see there's quite a yeast cake going on. That's why I want to rack again, to try and avoid some of the off flavours I hear are associated with having that much dead yeast. Should I have left it in the plastic fermenter for a bit longer to allow it to clear more? I didn't think I would get this much of a cake after racking, but then again, what do I know!


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## kenour (19/4/11)

Pffft, foodgrade schmoodgrade! This is pretty cheap for the gas and the regulator. Might be worth it for the small homebrew setup, ensure minimal oxygen contact for minimal cost.


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## barls (19/4/11)

heres the even cheaper option
https://daveshomebrew.com.au/index.php?page...t&Itemid=99


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## kenour (19/4/11)

barls said:


> heres the even cheaper option
> https://daveshomebrew.com.au/index.php?page...t&Itemid=99



Ok, just doing the maths here... Bear in mind that I ain't no medical doctor or nothin' 

Regulator $34.87 vs Keg Charger with Disconnect $54.50

and;

Argon $34.50/KG vs CO2 $306.25/KG

:blink:


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## kenour (29/4/11)

Ok! I think I'm going to bottle soon, I have about 20ish litres and it's quite clear.

My plan (and please tell me if I'm doing this wrong) is to take 14lt from the middle (to fill 24 pint bottles), bulk prime with honey and bottle. I don't know how much honey to use, I came to 87.5g using a calculator for sugar (based on a desired CO2 volume of 2.5... whatever that means ) and adjusting for honey only being 95% fermentables.

It's nice and clear in the middle, and my thinking is that if I take the 14lts from the middle only, bulk prime and bottle it should be the 'cleanest' stuff?

I'll then take the rest (6lts or so) and rack to a 5lt demijohn and 1lt bottle (for top ups) and continue to age. I'm thinking of freeze distilling the left over 5lts and see what I get (besides a hangover).

Suggestions, Comments? Don't want to f up my first batch!

Cheers,

Ken.


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## Airgead (29/4/11)

kenour said:


> It's nice and clear in the middle, and my thinking is that if I take the 14lts from the middle only, bulk prime and bottle it should be the 'cleanest' stuff?
> 
> I'll then take the rest (6lts or so) and rack to a 5lt demijohn and 1lt bottle (for top ups) and continue to age. I'm thinking of freeze distilling the left over 5lts and see what I get (besides a hangover).
> 
> ...



Why not let it clear completely.. that way you will have 20l of nice clear stuff.

Patience grasshopper...

Cheers
Dave


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## kenour (30/4/11)

Airgead said:


> Why not let it clear completely.. that way you will have 20l of nice clear stuff.
> 
> Patience grasshopper...
> 
> ...



 Sorry, I meant the yeast cake on the bottom and a little bit of froth/crud on top. Seems primary fermentation wasn't quite finished when I racked it. Even though it hadn't bubbled for 3-4 days. I understand it's bad to leave it on the yeast cake for too long because it could pick up off flavours? Should I rack one more time and let it age and clear a while longer before bottling do you think? It's been in the 24 days since I racked it from the primary fermenter to the carboy.





Cheers!


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## Airgead (30/4/11)

kenour said:


> Sorry, I meant the yeast cake on the bottom and a little bit of froth/crud on top. Seems primary fermentation wasn't quite finished when I racked it. Even though it hadn't bubbled for 3-4 days. I understand it's bad to leave it on the yeast cake for too long because it could pick up off flavours? Should I rack one more time and let it age and clear a while longer before bottling do you think? It's been in the 24 days since I racked it from the primary fermenter to the carboy.
> 
> Cheers!



Ahh... should be right to bottle. Hard to see how clear it is from the photo but you should be pretty much crystal clear before you bottle. Wouldn't worry too much about the yeast cake unless its going to be there for 6 months or more. Weeks to a few months should be fine.

Let it clear completely then bottle. You'll get at least 18 odd litres if you rack carefully and don't disturb the sediment. Most of that stuff on the sides will be a really thin coating on the glass. Its not a huge thick yeast cake. 

Cheers
Dave


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## kenour (30/4/11)

Airgead said:


> Ahh... should be right to bottle. Hard to see how clear it is from the photo but you should be pretty much crystal clear before you bottle. Wouldn't worry too much about the yeast cake unless its going to be there for 6 months or more. Weeks to a few months should be fine.
> 
> Let it clear completely then bottle. You'll get at least 18 odd litres if you rack carefully and don't disturb the sediment. Most of that stuff on the sides will be a really thin coating on the glass. Its not a huge thick yeast cake.
> 
> ...



Cool as, no worries. Will let it clear further, then carefully rack the middle bit to a bottling bucket and prime. With the rest, I'll freeze distil. I don't think I'll have to worry too much about getting a bit of crap in the portion I plan on freeze distilling. I'm pretty sure ice crystals tend to form on impurities first, so I should be able to get most of the junk out during the freeze distillation process.


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## KudaPucat (2/6/11)

kenour said:


> Thanks mate! Found it
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8799
> 
> I'm after these too:
> ...



Winequip just around the corner from me are wholesalers to most brewshops in vic. They have most of everything I need.
They have those bungs

But I warn you, I've not found a bung yet that I'm happy with for carboys. When I asked at Winequip, they siad... hmmm they're hard things to bung. THe silicone bungs I've got now work well, but if wet just pop out. At least they pop out quick, not like the rubber ones that take an hour.

To fix the issue with my rubber bung when i first encountered it, I got a length of wire from a scrap of phone cable, and a champagne cork wire. I then removed the bottom loop from the cork wire and replaced it with the copper wire. (Unfortunately a champagne cork wire wont fix around a carboy neck without being lengthened.) Then simply wired the rubber stopper in. It didn't move again!


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## kenour (30/9/11)

Hi All,

Well, this grasshopper has been quite patient (read: busy) and has left his cyser alone for a few months. This is the result, just a little bit clearer than it was! 




I have a couple of days leave, and was hoping to bottle. I've used all my honey for the feijoa wine I made, so I bought some dextrose to prime with (probably the better option).

My plan is (please correct me/guide me/slap me if I'm wrong):

1) Rack 14lt to a clean fermenter (didn't buy a bottling bucket).
2) Prime with dextrose (I'm not sure how much to use, what would people recommend for similar carbonation to Magners?).
3) Bottle into 12 x Magners pint bottles.
4) Add an amount of stevia to the remaining 7lt or so (not sure how much for a nice sweetness, but not TOO sweet).
5) Bottle into the remaining 12 pint bottles.

So I think I might be almost really, I would just like a couple of suggestion:

1) How much dextrose to use (to prime 14lt to approximately the same carbonation as Magners).
2) How much stevia to use (to sweeten the last 7lt to keep the missus happy ).

Thanks all!


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## Airgead (30/9/11)

kenour said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Well, this grasshopper has been quite patient (read: busy) and has left his cyser alone for a few months. This is the result, just a little bit clearer than it was!
> 
> ...



Process looks good. Amount wise, try this priming calculator - http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirl...Calculator.html

You probably want to aim for around 2 volumes.

No idea on the stelvia... add a tiny bit, taste... rinse... repeat...

Cheers
Dave


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## kenour (30/9/11)

Airgead said:


> Process looks good. Amount wise, try this priming calculator - http://webspace.webring.com/people/ms/sirl...Calculator.html
> 
> You probably want to aim for around 2 volumes.
> 
> ...



No worries, it's sitting at about 15C, so for 2 volumes it says to add 55.8g to 17lt. Will give it a go tomorrow 

Sounds good, I'll just add and taste with the stevia, although I'll have to keep in mind that there will be some sweetness (caused by the dextrose) that will be lost when the yeasties do their thing.

Also, anything special I should do after bottling? Lay them down, keep them upright etc?

Cheers!


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## kenour (1/10/11)

kenour said:


> Also, anything special I should do after bottling? Lay them down, keep them upright etc?



OH! Also, do I have to put any campden tablets in as a preservative when bottling? Or were the couple I put in at the start enough?


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## KudaPucat (4/10/11)

kenour said:


> OH! Also, do I have to put any campden tablets in as a preservative when bottling? Or were the couple I put in at the start enough?


I never do, unless I'm stabilising for residual sugars.
I know it's a bit early, but would you like to organise a bottle swap? I have one aging now from the start of this year... and I'm eager to see if mine's any good.


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## kenour (4/10/11)

KudaPucat said:


> I never do, unless I'm stabilising for residual sugars.
> I know it's a bit early, but would you like to organise a bottle swap? I have one aging now from the start of this year... and I'm eager to see if mine's any good.



Yeah cool as, didn't think ya did  Because this is my first run and so much time has passed since I did all my study, I was second guessing myself like an idiot!

I bulk primed with dextrose, bottled half, then added stevia (to taste) to the remaining. I only got 28 pint bottles out of it, have about a gallon left over which I'm going to... do stuff to. 

It tastes okish at the moment, will give it 3 months then chill some and see how it goes! My mates got some on at the moment, he breaks all the rules and is quite haphazard in his approach to homebrew, but always tends to come up with half decent stuff! He has quite a few hives, and makes big batches of mead each year that comes out really well.

Dunno if it's worth swapping any of this swill, but would be keen to hook up for a tasting in a few months  Might even have my feijoa melomel bottled by then (but it'll be very young still).


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## KudaPucat (5/10/11)

kenour said:


> Yeah cool as, didn't think ya did  Because this is my first run and so much time has passed since I did all my study, I was second guessing myself like an idiot!
> 
> I bulk primed with dextrose, bottled half, then added stevia (to taste) to the remaining. I only got 28 pint bottles out of it, have about a gallon left over which I'm going to... do stuff to.
> 
> ...



Mead is more forgiving of haphazard techniques than you'd think.
I'm going to be in Ballarrat for a tasting in a month or so... perhaps we could work something out.
My cyser is definitely not ready. Still brew, 14% with residual sugar. finishing at 1004 or thereabouts I think... I'd need to check my log. It was quite hot and tart last time I tried it (at primary racking) but that was some time ago.


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## kenour (22/10/11)

Well... what a fizzer! Or, lack of fizz... er 

Bottled 2 weeks ago, thought I would give one of the bottles a sneaky sample... No carbonation what so ever. The non stevia'd batch tastes better than the stevia'd batch, but still tastes quite young. I don't know what happened :|


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## KudaPucat (14/11/11)

Dead yeast I'm thinking. 
Perhaps too much alcohol?
Perhaps too cool to restart? Yeast doesn't like restarting a brew that's got more than 7% alcohol, do it could be stalled. 
Perhaps got too hot just before bottling and pasteurised?
There are many possibilities. 
Still mead's ok. I like force carving anyhow.


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