# Coopers beer and kits have a slight background bitterness - ?



## trustyrusty (15/7/15)

Ok I dont want to start world war 3 here but I personally am now finding that coopers have a background of a slight bitterness to them. It is like red wine that has a high or low tanin flavour. There might be a word for it - like tanins - but there is 'back of the throat bitterness'. Some may enjoy that, maybe I taste it more than others, but I went to the local tonight and had a Coopers Original Pale Ale on tap (green label) and get that same flavour so I dont think it is me. The beer is drinkable and is not vile - it is like a 'fresh taste' 'green'. Is it me? Do other people experience that and is there a way to change that, I would like it a bit sweeter. Another type of kit? It seems to be acroos all my brews...

Thanks


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## indica86 (15/7/15)

Bitterness? Different to any other bitterness in beer?

confused am i.


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## Grott (15/7/15)

Personally I don't have a problem. Perhaps you should brew the Coopers English Bitter. 
Cheers


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## Bribie G (15/7/15)

Maybe you are more suited to drinking wine.


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## Danscraftbeer (15/7/15)

I always found a home brew to be better than the (off the shelf) stuff from the bottlo. No expert but I think they use mostly Pride of Ringwood hops so maybe that's not to your liking.


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## trustyrusty (15/7/15)

I tried James Squire 150 lashes, does not that same bitterness as Coopers, a lot less than Coopers..


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## trustyrusty (15/7/15)

Thanks danscraftbeer for your help


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## indica86 (15/7/15)

Try the Coopers Wheat kit and make as per a pale. It is a lot less bitter. 150 lashes is low on bitterness.


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## trustyrusty (16/7/15)

Thanks - I should probably explain better..... the beer tastes fine. There are different taste receptors on the tongue. The front ones generally deal with sweet tastes and the back deal with bitterness / sour. There are 5 types of flavours. Sweet / Sour / Bitter / Salty and one I cannot remember. After I have had a taste of coopers beer there is a lingering taste of bitterness in the back of the throat that seems to be higher in the coopers than other beers, home brew or on tap boutique. I am sure there is a technical word for it. Perhaps I taste it more than others as people tastes vary. But I wonder if there is a hops or some additive that helps with that - I was thinking dextrose for better mouth feel could help?


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## Nizmoose (16/7/15)

It could just be that something about pride of ringwood isn't to your liking as a bittering addition or have you considered a slight amount of yeast bite considering even coopers kegs are conditioned with yeast (ie the pale is cloudy and has yeast in in) which may contribute something many other beers don't? Try the sparkling ale and if the same taste is there rule out the yeast


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## wobbly (16/7/15)

Some time ago I sent an email to Coopers asking about hop additions as well as what they used in their beers and this is the response I got back

All of our brew cans are bittered with Pride of Ringwood hops in the brewhouse. Some of our brew cans also have late hop aroma added at the packaging stage – this used to be detailed against each product on our website but seems to have been lost since we went to the latest site.

Below is a list of the brew cans with late hop additions:

English Bitter – Styrian Golding

European Lager – has a hop topnote (proprietary blend), which is typical of European lagers (Saaz, Hellertauer, Tettnanger, Spalt)

Mexican Cerveza – has a blend of light stable and fresh woody character hops

Pilsener – Saaz

Heritage Lager – Hop base notes (proprietary blend)

Traditional Draught – Cascade

IPA – Styrian Golding

Cheers

Wobbly


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## trustyrusty (16/7/15)

Thanks so _Pride of Ringwood hops _could be an issue for me? Does that tend to be the bitter side?

I have made the draught - think I might have some left over, will see if that is the a different background bitterness...

I tasted the Original Pale Ale on tap yesterday and that is actually quite a lot bitter to the Pale Ale made from the kit...

Years ago I made a pilsner or a sparkling that was delicious, think that suited me better... I will try one of those....

I also have on the go "woolies home brand" (I wanted to give it go see if any good) which I think is Tooheys (?) New and also added A safale yeast for lagers....the wort

seems to be less bitter...might turn out nice..
will see
thanks


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## pcmfisher (16/7/15)

Beer is supposed to be bitter - some more, some less.
Some harsh, some smooth.

It is a myth that different parts of your tongue tastes different flavours.


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## trustyrusty (29/7/15)

Just put another Coopers Lager on ...the wort has that same background bitterness that I personally dont like, I know it will get better in the bottle but I now think that Pride of Ringwood is not my friend  ..

Can anyone recommend any kit that is not as bitter - I know a personal taste (PUN intended).

I had a 150 lashes on tap the other day - I like that - I have made Coopers Pale Ale, dont mind it but I want to try something different.

Anyone tried the esb? Muntons? cheers


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## Nizmoose (29/7/15)

It could be worth trying a full extract batch using your own boil? Its simple and doesn't require anything you wouldn't have in the kitchen already. Just dissolve 100g/L of extract in whatever size pot you can manage and boil for 60 minutes, add a bittering addition at the start of the 60 minute boil, and if you like some later additions for some hop flavour and aroma, I'd have a guess that one batch using a full extract method and you'd never turn back to kits. It can be done with a pot as small as say 5L. Lets say your recipe calls for 1kg of LDME and a tin of unhopped LME, dissolve 500g of the LDME in the pot with hot water, bring up to a boil, add your hops at the right time, cool the pot down in the sink or use the hot extract to dissolve the remaining extract in the fermenter, top up to the right volume and youre done, can make really great beer for just an hour more effort. This will allow you to select your bittering hop and also change the aroma and hop flavour to you liking


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## indica86 (29/7/15)

Trustyrusty said:


> Can anyone recommend any kit that is not as bitter - I know a personal taste (PUN intended).


I don't think it is the PoR.
You like 150 Lashes? A reasonable approximation can be made with the Coopers APA can and some late hops.

I get the feeling you just don't like bitter beers.
Try Cricketer's Arms Pale...


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## Brewsta (29/7/15)

I agree with indica86, POR is used in most ozy beers, I think you would not enjoy most ozy beers if i you didn't like POR hops, could be the amount & the process they use though???

But i do agree with you though, i find coopers beers bitter in taste, kits & commercial coopers.

I use coopers pale ale, lager & draught kits for majority of my brews, but i never use the kit yeast. My personal opinion is, its the Coopers yeast that creates most of the bitter flavours on my palate.

I could be wrong & more experienced guy's on here especially those who culture their own yeast may shoot me down, it's just my personal opinion.

Put it this way when i'm out and have to buy a beer, i don't ask for coopers pale ale even though i brew it??? it's not to my liking.

the only other thing to question is it bitterness or extract twang you are tasting? i've been immune to the twang thing for years but my taste buds are recognising it more & more.


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## TheWiggman (29/7/15)

I think you're on the money there Brewsta and Trusty I think you're confusing bitterness with something else. I can't say I've ever had a bitter kit beer. 
You say Coopers kits have it, which implies you've made beer with other kits and these DON'T have this background flavour you're pointing out. Correct? Or have you only done Coopers?


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## TheBigD (30/7/15)

My advice would be to try a different brand, Id highly recommend the ESB 3kg all in one kits you can actually see the late hop addition still in the goo as you poor them out and they come with quality dry yeast as well usually USO5 or similar . I've made a couple and believe they are far superior to the coopers kits I've made to date. Im currently drinking the aussie draught and about to put down an American PA. The draught it very session able and inoffensive as a basic kit with no additions much better the coopers APA that I did as a basic kit some time back.

The other thing to consider is are you aging your beer for long enough? 4 weeks minimum at room temp and 4 weeks at lagering temps I find I get the best results when kegging.


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## mosto (30/7/15)

Perhaps you don't have a very high bitterness threshold. I know I didn't when I started brewing. I was a standard Carlton Draught / Tooheys New drinker. I started trying different beers to get my head around different styles and flavours. One of the first craft beers I tried was 4 Pines Pale Ale, listed at 35 IBU on the bottle, it was far too bitter. Now my palate is more conditioned to hop bitterness. I recently knocked out my first IPA which was over 60 IBU and I was actually thinking it was lacking a little bitterness.

Perhaps try some different commercial examples of more bitter beers. Coopers Sparkling Ale (Red label), for example, is a more bitter than Coopers Pale Ale but has the malt backbone to support it and, IMO, is a more balanced beer than the Pale Ale. The Sierra Nevada Pale / Torpedo / Hop Harvest beers are another range that showed me how high IBU levels can be incorporated well into the flavour profile.


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## trustyrusty (30/7/15)

Thanks @mosto, you could be right...

I have made a Tooheys Draught, which I did not think was as bitter, and I have just made Woolies Homebrand just too see what it was like (I did not get that bitterness - but I did use a different yeast) , there was a list of beers that Coopers make not using POR (one of which is the Wheat beer which I made 6 weeks ago, which I had last night and it is not bitter at all, like it ) - maybe I need too get used to it.... I guess goes back to when you had your first beer, it was really bitter...

But definitely think that I am not a fan of high bitterness... time will tell.... 

I actually have a Coopers Larger on the go with T 58 Yeast - Too me the wort has that bitterness which may reduce...will let you know..

cheers


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## Mardoo (30/7/15)

The sensory qualities of different hops used for bitterness are different, meaning some bitterness is harsher than others. I find Pride of Ringwood to have a harsh bitterness. I find Magnum to be better. I myself would rather not bitter with Cascade, but some love it. You may not be sensitive to bitterness on the whole, but to other qualities of the bitterness.


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## Bribie G (30/7/15)

As noted in this thread, palates definitely get "re trained" when you brew your own. I've just been on a six day trip and haven't touched home brew. After a couple of days I was finding that XXXX heavy (not Gold) on tap was nicely bitter. Last night I had a couple of Reschs Draught at Maclean then noticed that they had Coopers Pale on tap as well, so I switched.
I found only a slight difference in the bitterness.. both POR I expect. The main difference when I switched to the Coopers was an almost lemon - peel fragrance, but if anything a tad less hoppy than the Reschs.


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## yankinoz (30/7/15)

POR's bitterness is a love or hate it thing. I'm in the latter category, but many drinkers (even Michael Jackson) and several brewers on this site are defenders, and so take my opinion as one person's. I might have a different perspective, to do with Aussie beer before and after POR.

Carlton had much to do with the development of POR, which was released in 1965. Presumably other breweries took time to adopt it, and I would be surprised if they made the transition in their flagship brews a sudden one.

I first tasted Aussie beers in 1977. Swan and Emu tasted okay as industrial lagers go. Cooper's Pale and some of the Tasmanian beers were a delight. On the whole the Aussie macros had more to them than the major US brands. Then I got to Melboune and tried the range of Carlton beers. Didn't like the bittering or anything else about them.

On later trips to Australia my thoughts were something had gone terribly wrong with the mass production beers, especially with Swan and Emu. Had my tastes changed, or was my changing perception a product of the spread of POR? I don't know.

I don't mind POR in late additions at all. It's just the bittering. To my tastes Cooper Sparkling is such a fine beer, with all the pepper and fruit from the yeast, that I can only wish they'd drop the POR and substitute Magnum, Horizon, Glacier, even Green Bullet. The result would still be a distinct Australian beer. Maybe it wouldn't be quite as distinctive, but some things, like dwarf-tossing, are not missed when they're gone.


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## Brewsta (30/7/15)

i think everyones got some great comments on here Trustyrusty and maybe you don't like bitter beers as you say. You could put it to the test, have you tried say a James Squire IPA, Hop Thief or a constable? I find these beers pretty bitter, but also very nice. At the end of the day their your taste buds so brew according to them.

& i think Bribie G hit the nail on the head with our taste buds being retrained as we brew our own, i know mine have over the years, i struggle to drink a mainstream commercial beer nowadays & always opt for the craft variety. Hell once upon a time i used to think Carlton Cold was a great beer, now i think it rates somewhere just below cats piss.

and god knows how many cans of vaginal backwash (VB) i swallowed throughout my drinking career when i was young. geezuz we used to shotgun the stuff…yukkk. excuse me while i go & puke.


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