# Sanitizing Kegs



## etbandit (30/7/07)

What sanitizers are you guys using for your kegs?

I've just been using Keg and Line Cleaner from Brewcraft and then rinsing with tap water before racking my beers into it.

Im thinking of using Iodophor at 12ppm. Does anyone know if this is a bad or good idea to use with stainless steel kegs?


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## Keifer (30/7/07)

I use iodophor in my kegs all the time and some rinses with boiling water. Never had an infection in a keg, low temp and quick drinking helps alot.

Just stay away from chlorine types for your s/s


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## devo (30/7/07)

Iodophor works just fine.


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## tangent (30/7/07)

while you've got a keg of sanitiser, add some gas. it's a good time to flush your lines and taps.


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## Steve (30/7/07)

I do what those three just said....

Rinse the yeast slurry out with cold water. Fill keg with about 2 litres boiling water, give a good shake. Leave for a while. Tip out, pour in about 2 litres of cold water, chuck in some iodophor, give a good shake. Leave for a while. Gas it, clean the lines. Leave for a while. Tip out, pour in some clean cold water, flush the lines, empty keg and fill er up :beerbang: 
Cheers
Steve


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## troywhite (30/7/07)

etbandit said:


> What sanitizers are you guys using for your kegs?
> I've just been using Keg and Line Cleaner from Brewcraft and then rinsing with tap water before racking my beers into it.



I started off using that but found it extremely hard to rinse out. It took a heck of a lot of rinses to get the last traces out.

I now clean with Napisan and then use prox for the sanitising. Of course iodophor can be used in place of the prox


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## troywhite (30/7/07)

Steve said:


> chuck in some iodophor, give a good shake. Leave for a while....Tip out, pour in some clean cold water



I thought Iodophor was a "no rinse" solution? Wouldn't pouring in clean water after the iodophor undo all the good work of the iodophor?

I know with the prox, it is always the last thing to touch the keg. I drain it upside down for a minute and then beer goes straight in.


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## etbandit (30/7/07)

troywhite said:


> I thought Iodophor was a "no rinse" solution? Wouldn't pouring in clean water after the iodophor undo all the good work of the iodophor?



I thought Iodophor at 12ppm was no rinse as well????


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## Steve (30/7/07)

etbandit said:


> I thought Iodophor at 12ppm was no rinse as well????




....it is no rinse....its just force of habit - I rinse everything. I do leave it for 15-20 mins....dunno it this undos all the work :blink: 
Cheers
Steve


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## fraser_john (30/7/07)

I use a cheap steam generator/cleaner, just hang the nozzle in and let it steam till the whole keg is too hot to touch, then I press the nozzle into the gas/beer line connections and sterilize them that way as well. I usually put my racking cane/hose in the keg as well as hang the lid/o-ring inside to sterilize it all at the same time. A bit of foil over the top whilst its steaming helps it along nicely!


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## devo (30/7/07)

correct on the no rinse, just let it slightly air dry and you should be right a rain.


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## kook (30/7/07)

I first clean (Napisan). Then rinse well with cold then hot water. Then fill with a few litres of either iodophor or starsan and shake. If it's starsan I leave it for an hour for the bubbles to subside, then use gas to flush the sanitiser out the keg. I then either fill or store for filling at a later time.


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## PostModern (30/7/07)

If I'm filling straight away with 4% or stronger beer, I sometimes don't sanitise at all!!! Just hot water rinses, fill with beer and gas up. However, when the posts start to hiss after removing the QDs, the keg gets a full service. ie, dismantle posts, wash everything in napisan or PSR, soak everything in iodophor and keg lube all rubbers before re-assembly. Haven't had a keg-based infection yet.


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## Andyd (31/7/07)

On the no rinse. If you're rinsing with "clean" water, you might as well save your money and not bother with the iodophor - you're undoing all of it's good work, and in fact decreasing the level of sanitisation...

So sayeth Murl Landman of National Chemicals...

Andy


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## Steve (31/7/07)

Andyd said:


> On the no rinse. If you're rinsing with "clean" water, you might as well save your money and not bother with the iodophor - you're undoing all of it's good work, and in fact decreasing the level of sanitisation...
> 
> So sayeth Murl Landman of National Chemicals...
> 
> Andy





I shall never rinse again. Consider my wrists slapped  
Cheers
Steve


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## bear09 (31/7/07)

I put water in with some sodium met. Rinse out with cold tap water. In goes 2 L of boiling water along with 50psi of pressure. A good shake. Leave for 5 mins.

NOTHING will survive these sorts of conditions. that much pressure and heat would kill just about any organism you can think off. I have never had any trouble.


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## drsmurto (31/7/07)

Being new to this game i may have gone a little over board.

Napisan soak after rinsing the kegs when they arrived.

Rinse with plenty of hot water.

One shot - left for an hour and then drained.

Racked beer into kegs.

Poured beer. :beerbang:


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## kook (31/7/07)

DrSmurto said:


> Being new to this game i may have gone a little over board.
> 
> Napisan soak after rinsing the kegs when they arrived.
> 
> ...



No, that is standard for me. Also standard for a commercial brewery (though they use hot caustic instead of napsian, and peracetic acid instead of one shot).


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## deckedoutdaz (31/7/07)

For sanitising my kegs i get the wifes electric pressure cooker from the kitchen, hook up a hose i made to the co2 inlet of the keg, i leave the lid of the keg slightly off to let out the pressure, and let it hiss for 10 minutes, a sh*tload of steam escapes, and this way nothing can get missed....


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## tangent (31/7/07)

i heard chlorine or napisan pits the stainless after a while.
stick with your normal iodophon/orthophosphoric sanitisers for stainless and nuke your plastic fermenters with whatever you like.

kettle of boiling water is pretty damn effective, but it also expands the air inside of things and can shoot out of an airlock pretty damn quick if you're not paying attention.


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## als_world (31/7/07)

It's only chlorine based products that pit stainless steel. Napisan is sodium percarbonate based (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_percarbonate) which releases hydrogen peroxide when mixed with water which then produces the oxygen bleaching effect.

I normally soak my kegs in napisan for a day or so to loosen up the gunk and then give a scrub out. I then mix up 4 litres or so of 1:1000 idophor, give it a few PSI of CO2, shake it around and give each of the posts a quick squirt out. Then I leave the rest of the iodophor in the keg under CO2 pressure until it's next use. After a couple of weeks the iodophor has decomposed to leave a clear liquid.


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## etbandit (1/8/07)

als_world said:


> I normally soak my kegs in napisan for a day or so to loosen up the gunk and then give a scrub out. I then mix up 4 litres or so of 1:1000 idophor, give it a few PSI of CO2, shake it around and give each of the posts a quick squirt out. Then I leave the rest of the iodophor in the keg under CO2 pressure until it's next use. After a couple of weeks the iodophor has decomposed to leave a clear liquid.



Can the Iodophor stain the keg brown like it does with plastic fermenters and vinyl tubing if you leave it in there for too long?

I guess stainless steel is not porous like plastic is, but can it leave a coating on the kegs?


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## paul d (1/8/07)

i use white king bleach unscented to sanitise all my brew equipment as told to me by the homebrew guy at coopers brewery , half a cup of bleach and fill with water ,i have never had a failure and is cheap


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## pint of lager (1/8/07)

Don't use bleach on stainless steel. It will pit it.

Bleach is a great cleaner if used at the right concentration and also a great sanitiser if used once again at the correct concentration. This is why it is commonly used as an additive to sanitise water supplies.

Brewers avoid using it as a sanitiser as chlorine can generate unpleasant flavours in beers.

At Paul d's concentrations, I do not know if it would pit ss. There are different products to use, so prefer to avoid bleach on my kegs. Too expensive to discover a mistake.


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## Maxt (1/8/07)

Caustic soda for me.


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## Andyd (1/8/07)

deckedoutdaz said:


> For sanitising my kegs i get the wifes electric pressure cooker from the kitchen, hook up a hose i made to the co2 inlet of the keg, i leave the lid of the keg slightly off to let out the pressure, and let it hiss for 10 minutes, a sh*tload of steam escapes, and this way nothing can get missed....



How are you getting the steam out of the pressure cooker? Have you fitted an outlet coupler?


As for me, I wash mine out with napisan, rinse and then zap it with iodophor & air dry while I get everything else ready.

Andy


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## JSB (1/8/07)

Napisan >>> Phos >>> Boiling Water >>> Fill >>> Gas >>> Dispense.

Cheers

JSB


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## pbrosnan (1/8/07)

I use bleach, usually black and gold brand, about a cup in a keg, let it sit for > 20 mins then rinse a few times with boiling water, more boiling water then flush under pressure. Add beer immediately thereafter.


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## tangent (1/8/07)

agree with Maxt, the pro brewers i know use a caustic solution


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## deckedoutdaz (1/8/07)

The pressure is in the pot, on the lid you have a small 1/4 inch outlet that the pressure weights sit on, i just push a hose on here and on the other end of the hose i have a black keg outlet comnnector, i connect this to the outlet of the keg so i can sanitise the stainless pickup pipe as well, as long as there are no pressures involved, theres no problem....i do leave the lid of the keg just sitting in position so the steam can escape, no chemicals and 100% guarenteed sanitised, i think you can pick up a steam machine from godfreys for under a ton..


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## glennheinzel (1/8/07)

What concentration of Napisan should be used?


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## sanders4_ (14/8/07)

couple of questions on sanistisers.

what this caustic soda/hot caustic people are talking about? 

I'm pretty sure automatic dishwasher detergent is caustic soda isn't it? Is there any products widely available that i could pick up to use for cleaning?

where do you guys source a caustic soda suitable for brew cleaning?

any help would be awesome!


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## Sammus (14/8/07)

I think draino is caustic (99% sodium hyrdroxide)


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## enoch (14/8/07)

Sammus said:


> I think draino is caustic (99% sodium hyrdroxide)



Draino has aluminium flakes in it as well to cause it to heat up (boil) when you put it in the drain. Straight Caustic Soda is cheaper (?) and in the same spot in the super marlet or Bunny's.


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## sanders4_ (15/8/07)

enoch said:


> Draino has aluminium flakes in it as well to cause it to heat up (boil) when you put it in the drain. Straight Caustic Soda is cheaper (?) and in the same spot in the super marlet or Bunny's.



So it is literally called 'caustic soda'? 

And should be in the supermarket or hardware store. that is awesome! I am so used to reading about sanitising and cleaning products that people rave on about, and they always seem near impossible to find, and if you can, they cost a fortune. 

I'm on the hunt because i don't want to bleach to clean my S/S post mix keg.

Back on topic, i have read that people use sodium percarbonate to clean S/S kegs, and that some brewers source 20 kg bags from chemical supply companies etc. Failing this, nappy san is the same thing, just smaller quantities (and therefore more $/kg)

Is it true when looking for some 'nappy san', are the main keys to look for one thats cheap and plain (i.e. no optical enhancers and stuff designed to help washing clothes), and one that is unscented? Is there anything i am missing out on here?

I have read that no-frills or homebrand unscented nappy san fits the description. Agree/disagree?


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## fraser_john (15/8/07)

What is the deal with disposal of cleaning water with caustic soda in it? Does it go down the sink? Or can it be tossed on the lawn (errr, weeds)?

I use napisan and from what I read, thats pretty environmentally friendly, I just dump it in the yard and its done no harm yet. 

Don't want to waste my rain-water, even after cleaning kegs


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## brettprevans (15/8/07)

caustic soda eats organic matter. thats why you use it in sinks etc to unclog, as it dissolves it. Caustic sosa is an alkaline product (high PH level) that is on the opposite end of the scale to say hydrocloric acid (which is an acid base). both will burn the crap out of you just in differant ways. 

SO dont put caustic soda on the lawn unless you want to kill it. give your drains a clean instead  

Im sure you could probably use any of the normal sanitisers on keg (I dont keg so someone please correct me). This thread talks a heap about differant sanitisers, some are commerical grade that you just dilute. They cost a bit more but will last ages.


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## Hutch (15/8/07)

sanders4_ said:


> Is it true when looking for some 'nappy san', are the main keys to look for one thats cheap and plain (i.e. no optical enhancers and stuff designed to help washing clothes), and one that is unscented? Is there anything i am missing out on here?
> 
> I have read that no-frills or homebrand unscented nappy san fits the description. Agree/disagree?



Hi sanders4_,

I've found that even the no-name nappysan only has about 25% Sodium Percarbonate, and who-know's what else as filler (wetting agents, perfumes, etc.)

In the brewing isle of Coles, you can find pure Sodium percarbonate in 280gm plastic bottles, labeled "Coopers Home Brew Sanitiser". 
At $4, it is more expensive than cheap nappy-san, but it lasts a long time with how little you need to use. I even use it to clean and sterilise the kitchen cloth - leaves it spotless, with no odor once rinsed out - can't say that about bleach!!!!

I think you can also buy pure Sodium percarbonate ("Oxyper") from Grain and Grape for $8 a kg.
Hope this helps.


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## 0M39A (15/8/07)

So what would i do if i were to use caustic soda, as I'll hopefully have a keg setup up and going shortly, but where i'll be living over summer has a septic tank, and from what i understand, this would be VERY bad for it...


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## drsmurto (15/8/07)

Hutch said:


> Hi sanders4_,
> 
> I've found that even the no-name nappysan only has about 25% Sodium Percarbonate, and who-know's what else as filler (wetting agents, perfumes, etc.)
> 
> ...



I would assume that the extra bits in napisan (and its no brand alternatives) are likely to mainly be surfactants, very little 'perfume' from what i can detect. 

That said, i used the napisan only to clean the kegs etc not sanitise. I use one-shot for that.


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## Hutch (15/8/07)

DrSmurto said:


> I would assume that the extra bits in napisan (and its no brand alternatives) are likely to mainly be surfactants, very little 'perfume' from what i can detect.
> 
> That said, i used the napisan only to clean the kegs etc not sanitise. I use one-shot for that.



I think your probably right - there's probably nothing wrong with napisan for cleaning kegs. I just find it takes quite a few rinses to completely remove the perfume and suds.

I've found sodium percarbonate to be brilliant in cleaning kegs - I put a small cap-full (1 tsp) into the keg, and poor in 1-2 Ltrs of boiling water from the kettle, which instantly starts fizzing like mad. If you close the keg lid quickly and shake the living daylights out of the keg, it cleans the keg, and builds up enough pressure to push all the liquid out of the liquid post - cleaning your beer lines & tap/font in the process!

And just to be sure, I follow this up with a quick keg rinse with no-rinse phosphoric acid sanitiser. Not sure what bugs can survive that onslaught!


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## razz (15/8/07)

I've used "Vanish" brand Napisan Oxyaction Max with great results, no perfume. Usually wait until it's on special at the supermarket for about $12-13 for a 2kg.


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## kabooby (16/8/07)

Have a look in aldi for their napisan. Same active ingredient as the other homebrand types and about $2 for 1kg. 

After cleaning kegs I will empty them into a 60l fermenter and then use it that later, transfer it into cubes and between fermenters, drop bottles in there and anything else I want cleaned. After you have done this for a while chuck it out and start again.

Give them a spray of no rinse and of you go

Kabooby


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## tangent (16/8/07)

napisan for plastic, caustic for stainless


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## pint of lager (16/8/07)

Sanders asks:


> So it is literally called 'caustic soda'?



Common name : caustic soda
chemical name: sodium hydroxide
chemical formula : NaOH

In Woolies, it is sold in a Mechanix branded tub. Found near the Draino. Don't know what it is called in Bunnings.

Treat it with extreme care, read and follow all safety directions. One splash in the eye and bye bye eye.

Sodium percarbonate is also great stuff, as is bleach. Keep the bleach away from your SS kegs. I find a kettle of water as a final rinse following using sodium percarbonate helps remove the last aroma. Aldi or Woolies homebrand stuff, depending on which place I am shopping at.

DO NOT MAKE A COCKTAIL MIX. Use only one cleaning product at a time.

I use something similar to Hutch's suggestion, Doc originally posted it on AHB, so it is Doc's method.

Rinse the keg with plain water.
Pour a kettle of boiling water in, about 2-3 litres.
Add a few teaspoons of your favourite cleaner and put on lid.
Shake, this pressurises the keg.
Briefly depress the liquid poppet valve till cleaner comes out.
Turn keg up side down and press the liquid poppet valve briefly. 
Release some cleaner through the relief vlavle.
Shake keg so all internal surfaces have some cleaner.
Leave for 10 minutes and every time you walk past, give it another shake.
Pour out cleaner, rinse with clean water.
Pour in another kettle of boiling water, shake, press the liquid poppet valvle briefly, invert and do the air and relief valves.
Drain, add your favourite sanitiser, swish and purge the keg of sanitiser.


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## sanders4_ (17/8/07)

Thanks heaps for all the info, with all the replys and links i've managed to answer all of my questions.

Hutch, thanks for the info re: oxyper = pure sodium percarbonate, and that coopers brewing 'sanitiser' is sodium percarbonate too.

I've since been reading on other topics that some guys use a commercial brewers product called by ALL of the following names:
- Prox, Proxitane or Peroxyacetic based sanitiser

Is this one safe on S/S? Where have people located it before?

Thanks again!


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## drsmurto (17/8/07)

pint of lager said:


> DO NOT MAKE A COCKTAIL MIX. Use only one cleaning product at a time.



Thats no fun, nothing like creating a few explosion at home using all legal products........ :unsure:


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## gregb (19/8/07)

... more details on how to do that then please, Doc.


Cheers,
Greg


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## mudsta (19/8/07)

Sanders,

Proxitane is a commercial grade use product, especially for brewers and those in the milk game.

Try Campbells Clean Tech, I believe they have outlets in all citys, could be wrong. (S.A. is ok)

Mudsta :beerbang:


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## new2brew (19/8/07)

Whats wrong with regular bleach or milton?

Made in a ratio of 1:25 and needs to be rinsed post sterilization. But if its good for babies, its good for me!


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## Jazzafish (20/8/07)

new2brew said:


> Whats wrong with regular bleach or milton?
> 
> Made in a ratio of 1:25 and needs to be rinsed post sterilization. But if its good for babies, its good for me!



Bleach damages stainless steel... not sure what it would do at your dilution though.


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## new2brew (20/8/07)

ever tried milton.... or no name anti bacterial soluition from your locoal supermarket made to the same dilution?


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## pint of lager (20/8/07)

new2brew said:


> ever tried milton.... or no name anti bacterial soluition from your locoal supermarket made to the same dilution?



Have a read of the active ingredients and go from there. Google will reveal all. If it is bleach or sodium metabisulphite, there are better alternatives. Either would be last on my list of sanitisers. A better option would be to go to the health and medical aisle and buy some hydrogen peroxide.


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