# Grunt From Your Burner



## domonsura (16/12/06)

Just wanted to toss something into the mix and get comments on peoples' choice of burner. I've purchased and tested a few of them over the last 18 months (along with all sorts of pumps, filters, fittings etc, as I'm sure a lot of others have done) and ended up using a standard 3 ring with an adjustable high pressure reg to get the job done - and this has always thrown out a fierce flame with the high pressure reg, but I've always been looking for slightly more - seeking strike water heat up times of less than 15 minutes as sort of a goal.

In this spirit, I recently tried a nasa burner, as everything I've heard about them had led me to believe that they were the goods - and the description of the noise they made was promising, but I could never get the nasa to fire up as well as comments had led me to expect - even Kai had told me that there must be something wrong with it, or wasn't tuned right after I told him what I reckoned about them a week ago, so I took the nasa to Maxbilt in Norwood, Adelaide this morning to see if there was something wrong with it, they fired it up and said straight away that it was working fine! Even checked my reg to see that it was working properly. They reckoned the nasa would be fine for 36-40 litres, but nowhere near enough for 60-70 litres (which is what my experience left me thinking after waiting over an hour to reach strike temp.....).
But a point of interest was that they do sell the outdoor burner or 'nasa' there, in a stand, and the price tag shocked me a little - $24.95.............and I just paid $45 for one.....anyone looking for one, this is the place to go I suppose....someone fill me in if your experience with the nasa was more satisfying....please....

So anyway, I moved on to a 50Mj spiral burner with the high pressure reg instead, and while this is indeed a fearsome flamethrower, (p****s all over what I've seen the nasa do...) it still only equals what the 3-ring is capable of with the same regulator (@ half the price). I actually reckon that the 3-ring out does the spiral a little, which suprised me.
To be honest, I'd recommend the 3 ring with an adjustable reg on it to anyone looking for serious heat for minimum dollars. I've come to the conclusion that there is no benefit in spending any more $$$ on a burner than that unless you want to step up to big duckbills (and bigger gas bills).
Has anyone had a similar experience with the nasa, or is everyone else quite happily using them to heat 60l plus with no dramas. Or did I just get it wrong in the first place? :unsure: ($200+ worth of burners later......)


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## tangent (16/12/06)

> anyone looking for one, this is the place to go I suppose


Gaganis Brothers Hindmarsh - NASA's (occasionally), 3 ring and 2-ring (what i use believe it or not) as well as Marga mills, regs, oak, cracked wheat, crown seals, cappers, stainless bling.... etc. etc..


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## Keifer (16/12/06)

My vote = NASA, never tried anything else apart from stove top.
It is loud and powerful and more than enough for my 50l ss kettle, the whole bottom ring/edge is glowing red on full throttle 
Also in economy mode, i have now had about 4 full 90 min boils from the one bottle with about 1/3rd - 1/4er left in the gas bottle.


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## domonsura (16/12/06)

Apprentice Brewer, can I ask exactly what sort (brand & specs) of reg you use with your nasa? And also out of curiosity what sort of distance from the bottom of your kettle, or do you have it in the original stand? I tried everything and while it still burnt some paint off the stand, it definitely wasn't getting anything glowing.....How long would it take you to get 50 litres from say 20 degC to 70 degC?

Tangent - yeah I've seen them @ Gaganis as well, but they weren't the $24.95 that I saw them for @ Maxbilt, the price was more what I was getting at. Gaganis is bad news for those trying to stick to any kind of budget isn't it......my eyes lit up and the brain started whirring away when I saw all the different stuff they have....well worth a visit.


edit - fix typos


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## Stuster (16/12/06)

I have a NASA and use it on my 50L kettle, sometimes coming very close to the top. It has heaps of grunt for that. At the last brewday meet, we used it to boil the 80L kettle and it worked rather too well at that, leaving us short of volume at the end of the boil. That said, it wouldn't be up to heating 60L to strike temps in 15 minutes. I'm happy with it for my needs. There are a heap of threads on this same topic. Maybe add your speed testst to this thread.

Having seen crozdog's 4 ring burner boil 130+L, I think that's another route to take if you want to up your boil volumes in the future.


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## Screwtop (16/12/06)

Seems a really strange post to me as I have both NASA and 3 ring. Must say that the NASA works much better after disassembly and a good clean out with a wire brush. Mine brings 32L of wort to the boil in around 13 min. I find it impossible to get as vigorous a boil using the 3 ring even with the HP reg. Also find the NASA easier to adjust the air and it leaves no soot on the kettle bottom unlike the 3 ring, so I guess it's more efficient too. Sure the burner you had was a NASA not a Turkey burner or whatever.


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## Keifer (16/12/06)

I'll see what the weather is doing tmoro and if i brew a batch, i'll time the boil and take some pics, if i forget you'll have to settle for some measurements 

Also, it wont be very accurate because nowdays i use it on a low setting just after i start sparging to get up to temp quicker, so it's not a real 20c to 100c time test.


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## Keifer (16/12/06)

Just to add i got mine from G&G, burner + stand (don't use) + HP reg. ~$100 if i remember right. As for specs that's all i got...


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## sah (16/12/06)

domonsura said:


> How long would it take you to get 50 litres from say 20 degC to 70 degC?



Hrm, I should put the stopwatch on it one day. No, I'll do it tomorrow.

Today I had 50Lt in the HLT and fired up the nasa no where near full boar. I could still hear myself think. Then I went off measured my grain and crushed it in the barley crusher with an assistant and a drill. By the time I was done the water was 2C below mash-in temp (76C). This would have taken me about 20 minutes I think.

Anyway, I'll put the clock on it tomorrow.

regards
Scott


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## AUHEAMIC (16/12/06)

Four ring for me.

I am getting 5 brews plus a few BBq's from a 9kg bottle.

It gets 40ltrs in a 50ltr s/s vessel from 16deg to 66deg in 25mins.

66deg to boil in 20mins. after it reaches a good boil I can turn off the outer ring.


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## hockadays (16/12/06)

the Rambo from auscrown should fulfill your needs, I think mines rated to 130mj. I never use it full bore for 20L batches and would guess it to be fine for double batches. Maybe this should be in the Poll as I think a few of us have them....

hockers


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## tangent (16/12/06)

i gotta add, that my 2 ring burner kicks arse in the brew room and absolute sh!t in any sort of breeze outside. As much as I love brewing outdoors, gas use seems WAY more efficient indoors (with ventilation)


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## sah (18/12/06)

I put the stopwatch on the nasa yesterday. I was outside with a slight draft but not much. 49L in a 50L stainless vessel with no lid. Start temperature was 22C. Heated to 75C in 22 minutes.

regards
Scott


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## domonsura (18/12/06)

Yeah, thanks Scott, things are starting to look as though contrary to what I've been told, my Nasa is NOT running properly if that's the kind of heat up time that can be achieved.
Anyone care to try snap a pic of their nasa at full noise so I can try to compare from that? Mine was from G & G, so I know that it's the right burner.....semantics at this point as I'm using a different burner now, but I still want to figure out why I didn't get the performance out of it.......


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## Adamt (18/12/06)

What is the rating of your HP regulator? Mine is rated 0.5-2 bar (50 to 200 kPa).


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## warrenlw63 (18/12/06)

Never heated strike water with mine. However it brings 60 litres of wort from 70 degrees to boiling in around 15 minutes. Good enough for me.  

Here's some pics I just took running flat knackers.

Warren -


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## warrenlw63 (18/12/06)

And another.

Warren -


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## Phrak (18/12/06)

When talking about the regs you use, could everyone please specify whether you're using a standard LP 2kg/hr reg, a variable HP reg or a straight 8kg/hr HP reg?
And if you're using a variable one, roughly what setting you're running on?
(I'm still seearching for somewhere to buy a variable HP reg 'round these parts!) 

Cheers guys.
Tim.


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## fixa (18/12/06)

Tim.
See this thread
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=12819


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## sah (18/12/06)

Phrak,

Unfortunately I've just lent one of the nasa's and regulator to a mate so I can't go an look at what is stamped on it. He's going to put a wok on it would you believe!

If it helps the regulator I use is a variable high pressure. I bought it with the burners from Globe Imports Adelaide.

regards
Scott


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## Keifer (18/12/06)

I weighed my gas bottle before and after my brew today. 1.4kg of gas used for a 40-42 litre boil of 60min. Had it on very low during my sparge which lasted about an hour as well. Not too bad for a monster of a burner


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## Tony (18/12/06)

I loooooove my mongolian burner

The nasa's look like a great option though  ..... if i didnt already have a rambo B) 

cheers


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## dr K (18/12/06)

Adamt said:


> What is the rating of your HP regulator? Mine is rated 0.5-2 bar (50 to 200 kPa).



So thats half a bar ???
Sorry pump joke !!!

Kurtz


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## Cortez The Killer (28/12/06)

Has anyone ordered a nasa from globe recently?

How much is the whole setup going for?

Can these be converted to natural gas???

Cheers


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## Kai (28/12/06)

domonsura said:


> In this spirit, I recently tried a nasa burner, as everything I've heard about them had led me to believe that they were the goods - and the description of the noise they made was promising, but I could never get the nasa to fire up as well as comments had led me to expect - even Kai had told me that there must be something wrong with it, or wasn't tuned right after I told him what I reckoned about them a week ago, so I took the nasa to Maxbilt in Norwood, Adelaide this morning to see if there was something wrong with it, they fired it up and said straight away that it was working fine! Even checked my reg to see that it was working properly. They reckoned the nasa would be fine for 36-40 litres, but nowhere near enough for 60-70 litres (which is what my experience left me thinking after waiting over an hour to reach strike temp.....).



I still reckon that you need a higher pressure reg, the burner ought to sound roughly like a jet engine firing up when you run it at full bore. Sounds to like maxbilt are rating it a lot lower than other brewers are getting with a different regulator, as the ones I have seen in action will boil a lot more than 36-40.


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## Batz (28/12/06)

Screwtop said:


> Must say that the NASA works much better after disassembly and a good clean out with a wire brush. Mine brings 32L of wort to the boil in around 13 min.




Listen to old Screwy!
I did a brew day yesterday and during the boil thought,this does not sound like it once did (thought of Screwy's post)

I pulled it apart after the brew and found a piece of burnt wort (old boil over) plus bits of rust,paint etc.
Now it's away again,I had forgotten how good these dudes are.
Cheers to you Screwy ! :super: 

Batz


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## albrews (28/12/06)

Batz said:


> Listen to old Screwy!
> I did a brew day yesterday and during the boil thought,this does not sound like it once did (thought of Screwy's post)
> 
> I pulled it apart after the brew and found a piece of burnt wort (old boil over) plus bits of rust,paint etc.
> ...




hi, can someone provide a photo (thumbnail) of the nasa burner?. thanks

alan


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## sah (28/12/06)

This is a photo from Batz.







Also use google to search for "nasa .jpg site:aussiehomebrewer.com". Results here.

Scott


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## Screwtop (28/12/06)

albrews said:


> hi, can someone provide a photo (thumbnail) of the nasa burner?. thanks
> 
> alan




Have a look at post#16 and #17 in this thread, this is the G&G type. The regs can be different though, pic of mine below (0.5-2bar), others else might like to post pics of the different regs.








Batz said:


> I pulled it apart after the brew and found a piece of burnt wort (old boil over) plus bits of rust,paint etc.
> Now it's away again,I had forgotten how good these dudes are.



They go like shite when clean!


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## yardy (28/12/06)

Something Else.


















No reg, just a simple tap running off Bottle Pressure.

Brought 34.0 Lt to strike temp of 80* in approx 15 min, so no different to the others really, I just enjoy making my own gear.

Cheers

Yard


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## Finite (28/12/06)

Yardy! thats bad arse. Hows she go on the gas usage though?


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## Screwtop (28/12/06)

yardy said:


> Something Else.







Jeezus Yardy! Did you have liquid in that kettle? The pickup well in the bottom was glowing cherry.


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## yardy (28/12/06)

Finite said:


> Yardy! thats bad arse. Hows she go on the gas usage though?




Yeah..Makes a bit of noise :super: 

I started with a Full Bottle and I'm keeping all the times etc in the Brewlog so when it dies I'll have some figures then.

Screwtop,

Yeah mate, that was the first run, bringing the Strike up, i think the pic is a bit deceiving with the glowing etc, once it's up and boiling it only takes a slight flame to keep it rolling.






No problems with the soot etc, the lip seems to contain it all.

Yard


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## Cortez The Killer (28/12/06)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Has anyone ordered a nasa from globe recently?
> 
> How much is the whole setup going for?
> 
> ...



Well in answer to my post 

I rang Globe spoke to joe

He quoted 39 for the burner + 70 for the regulator + 15 postage

That's $124

I ordered one

Re: natural gas he said that they can be swapped over - but there will be a noticeable drop in pressure / flame

The jets just need to be drilled and he said a regulator won't be needed

Also he said that if the burner was near enough to the main distribution point that the flame would still be decent

Cheers


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## albrews (28/12/06)

SAH said:


> This is a photo from Batz.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hi, thanks for the input and is this burner also called the turkey burner? since a burner is given this name in the trade.

cheers alan


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## Adamt (28/12/06)

Yeah, these are marketed in the US as "Turkey Fryers". Apparently Americans like to heat up huge pots of oil to deep fry WHOLE turkeys in. Sounds mighty tasty but my arteries are clogging thinking about it!


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## Batz (28/12/06)

Screwtop said:


> Jeezus Yardy! Did you have liquid in that kettle? The pickup well in the bottom was glowing cherry.




I'll be a bit scared of those "besa" bricks exploding and a keg of boiling wort going who knows where  

Batz


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## yardy (28/12/06)

Batz said:


> I'll be a bit scared of those "besa" bricks exploding and a keg of boiling wort going who knows where
> 
> Batz



They tend to colour up a bit but I'm working on a stand, picked up one of those 'Jackaroo' 3 legged bbqs at a grg sale and I'm modding it to fit the Kettle.

Cheers


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## doglet (28/12/06)

yardy said:


> They tend to colour up a bit but I'm working on a stand, picked up one of those 'Jackaroo' 3 legged bbqs at a grg sale and I'm modding it to fit the Kettle.
> 
> Cheers


Three legged BBQ sounds even worse.  

Just remember the kettle once full weighs a bit more than a couple of snags and chops.


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## yardy (28/12/06)

doglet said:


> Three legged BBQ sounds even worse.
> 
> Just remember the kettle once full weighs a bit more than a couple of snags and chops.




That's why i said 'Modding It'.  

I'll shorten the legs to leave sufficient height for the burner to operate efficiently without going out, might even look at bracing the legs if the weight is too great but i think it should be right. 

Cheers


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## ausdb (28/12/06)

yardy said:


> No problems with the soot etc, the lip seems to contain it all.


Looks like a car thats running a bit rich, If you are getting that much sooting then you don't have enough O getting to the burner, you shouldn't get much at all if your air fuel mix is close.


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## warrenlw63 (28/12/06)

yardy said:


> Yeah..Makes a bit of noise :super:
> 
> I started with a Full Bottle and I'm keeping all the times etc in the Brewlog so when it dies I'll have some figures then.
> 
> ...



Mmmmmmm.... kettle caramelisation. :blink: 

Warren -


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## yardy (28/12/06)

Well, you can't have it all Wazza


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## yardy (28/12/06)

ausdb said:


> Looks like a car thats running a bit rich, If you are getting that much sooting then you don't have enough O getting to the burner, you shouldn't get much at all if your air fuel mix is close.




It keeps a nice rolling boil though


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## ausdb (28/12/06)

yardy said:


> It keeps a nice rolling boil though


I used to use a big sievert blowtorch burner similar to yours, and didnt get anywhere near that amount of sooting even turned down
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;hl=sievert#


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## albrews (28/12/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Mmmmmmm.... kettle caramelisation. :blink:
> 
> Warren -




hi, could you inform us of the hole size (orifice size) that you have designed for the gas . have you considered marketing your invention.?

lpg gas water tank(glass lined) is good also for a kettle.

cheers alan


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## yardy (28/12/06)

Ausdb,

Yeah, it's just the nature of the torch mate, as any Boily / Fitter / Welder will tell you, low heat with these heaters = soot.
Btw, I'm familiar with the torch you were using, why'd you give up ?

Cheers


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## ausdb (28/12/06)

yardy said:


> Ausdb,
> 
> Yeah, it's just the nature of the torch mate, as any Boily / Fitter / Welder will tell you, low heat with these heaters = soot.
> Btw, I'm familiar with the torch you were using, why'd you give up ?


I went from boiling in a 50L keg to an 80L stockpot, and borrowed a four ring burner. It's not quite as quick as the blowtorch but is way quieter and doesnt annoy the neighbours as much! I'm planning a big brewday again and will try and get a 200L vessel boiling so the blowtorch may get another outing.


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## yardy (28/12/06)

ausdb said:


> I went from boiling in a 50L keg to an 80L stockpot, and borrowed a four ring burner. It's not quite as quick as the blowtorch but is way quieter and doesnt annoy the neighbours as much! I'm planning a big brewday again and will try and get a *200L vessel boiling* so the blowtorch may get another outing.



Jeezus, make sure you get some pics of that :blink: :super: 

Yard


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## domonsura (27/1/07)

Well I finally got back to messing with the nasa on my own brewery, and after purchasing another regulator (a 2 cubic mtre/hour high pressure reg non-adjustable) have finally got it going properly. Maybe a little too properly..... :super: 




Click here to hear the blast ( .wav file recorded from 3 metres away with a phone) 
When I tested it without the wind & blast guards on it, it got 70 litres to the full boil from 20 degrees in about 18 minutes with the lid off, rate of temperature change was about 5 degrees a minute. Haven't done the full boil with the guards on yet, I have to put a heat shield underneath as yet so the cfwc, pump and water filter unit don't melt from the radiant heat :unsure: 
Cheers for the help everyone, now I have to figure out what to do with the $80 italian spiral burner........oh well, I'll find a use I'm sure.


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## Stuster (27/1/07)

Glad you could get it sorted out in the end. It didn't seem right that a NASA couldn't cope with 70L with ease. :unsure: 

Certainly sounds good to go now. :super:


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## Rex (29/1/07)

Tony said:


> I loooooove my mongolian burner
> 
> The nasa's look like a great option though  ..... if i didnt already have a rambo B)
> 
> cheers



Have the same thing here, using a normal low pressue reg, works great for big 80L+ boils!


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## Benniee (7/3/07)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Re: natural gas he said that they can be swapped over - but there will be a noticeable drop in pressure / flame
> 
> The jets just need to be drilled and he said a regulator won't be needed
> 
> ...



Sorry to drag this old thread up, but I'm interested to know how the natural gas conversion went. 
Did you end up doing the conversion Cortez? and if so how did you find the burner?

Benniee


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## Cortez The Killer (8/3/07)

I didn't bother with it

Now that I've played with the nasa and LPG the couple of bucks in gas is worth it for the power.

Cheers


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## Phrak (16/3/07)

So just a quick question on all of this... I'm currently running a 3ring burner off a normal, Low Pressure, 2.5Kg/hour regulator.

It currently takes close to an hour (if not 90mins!) to get 30-odd litres of tap water to the boil. Takes about 45mins to get the 30L to 65C.

Should I expect a big difference with swapping to a HP regulator like the ones you can get from Grain & Grape or is it not really worth the expense?

Can't really afford to upgrade the burner just yet 

Tim


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## browndog (16/3/07)

Hi Phrak,
You could be on the right track there, Ross's system has a three ring burner with a HP regulator and it hoots. I've tried connecting mine to a HP reg. and the flame kept blowing out, I reckon you would need to play around with the air inlet to get a higher volume of air in there.

cheers

Browndog


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## Cortez The Killer (16/3/07)

I bought my nasa setup from adelaide for $129 delivered (globe imports)

My understanding is that HP reg will boost the output of the 3 ring burners

Takes me stuff all time to get about 20L to mash in temps and not much time to get the kettle to the boil after sparging

Cheers


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## Sammus (16/3/07)

I use a 3 ring, if you close (screw in) the little plates that control airflow to the rings you will get a sooty yellow flame, as you open the plates the flame goes a nice blue and sound a bit louder. playing with this and the gas reg at the same time you can tune it quite nicely.

With a kettle on top you need adequate room between it and the burner or else the flames will just burn yellow no matter how much oxygen you throw in from the back, they need some oxygen up the other end too I think. I can't get more than 2 rings going properly on mine while the kettle is sitting on top.


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## Phrak (16/3/07)

browndog said:


> I reckon you would need to play around with the air inlet to get a higher volume of air in there.


Kinda like this you reckon? :lol: 



Thanks for the advice fellas. Will add a HP reg and hose to my Birthday list  

Sammus, do you use a 3 ring AND a HP reg?

I've found a similar situation with my LP reg and 3ring - I've got my kettle sitting on two bricks, at the "medium" height. ie. brick sitting long, narrow face down.
This gives me between 5cm and 10cm of space between the convex bottom of my keg-shaped kettle.

By having the two outer rings on full, and the inner ring on roughly half, and all three air plates screwed all the way out, gives me a nice blue flame on all three rings.

Best I can do so far.
Tim.


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## Doogiechap (16/3/07)

Phrak said:


> So just a quick question on all of this... I'm currently running a 3ring burner off a normal, Low Pressure, 2.5Kg/hour regulator.
> 
> It currently takes close to an hour (if not 90mins!) to get 30-odd litres of tap water to the boil. Takes about 45mins to get the 30L to 65C.
> 
> ...



I had a win with my 4 ring burner. I was very dissapointed in the output and the vigor of the boil with my 50l SS vessel with a starting volume of typically 37l. I bit the bullet and purchased one of these from eBay. I had to wind the output WAAAAY back to prevent the flame from blowing out/ going a little crazy. But it is great for both a great heat output and being adjustable you can 'tweak it' with far more accuracy than just shutting off an entire ring.

OK, on doing a search for the product on the forum I can see you have had a look at these previously but was hesitant (understandably). I haven't had any probs with mine at all but if you are wary grab one of those gas fuses from Bunnings or similar and that should improve your piece of mind.
Cheers
Doug


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## domonsura (16/3/07)

Phrak, the HP reg and a 3 ring will do you fine, it will crank up 70 litres like you wouldn't believe (I think you'll be pleasantly suprised)
I used that setup for 12 months and it was good. In fact, you will probably have to 'not use' the outer ring.


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## Phrak (16/3/07)

Cheers again guys. You've convinced me even more 
Tim.


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