# Speidels Braumeister. Impressive Yes. Expensive Yes.



## bear09

Hi All.

Well I was able to get down to G&G on the weekend to check out the Speidels Braumeister in action (google it if you dont know what the heck that is).

I was very impressed by it. I did have to chuckle though, I know so many people out there have such massive aversions it BIAB but to see a company producing hardware like this at this price must mean that there is something good about BIAB. I have not tried BIAB but I have no reason to believe it is not worthy of being a serious part of AG brewing - IMHO.

Anyhow this bit of gear is worth a massive 3k. I dont see 3k worth of value in what I considered to be a fancy urn but it was pretty cool none the less. It would make for a very simple brew day that is for sure - make that a 'brew afternoon'. This thing would save a lot of time.

Has anyone bought one of these or had the privilidge of using one? What are the beers like that come out of them?

If money was no object I think I would get on board - just for kicks.

I love that there is more and more serious equipment starting to appear for the home brewer. Ultimatley it means we are going to continue to see awesome beers.

Cheers all.


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## brocky_555

I have seen these and have used one they are very good. Worth the money a 3 vessal system in on complete unit think of all the stuffing around you save by just buying this unit, no gas burners, no HLT, no mash tun just one microprossor controlled unit that does it all. I want one but cant afford it until after my renovations.


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## Florian

I've been reading up on them over on the german forums the last couple of days, as they are quite widespread over there. They seem to be pretty good, a few little issues but nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of adjustment and experimenting.

They would definitely make the brew day much easier, but I am not sure if that's the preference of everyone on here. After all most of us love to fiddle with old and new gear and trying to find solutions and make adjustments. Brewing for most is more than a production line, it's also a hobby. Not knocking them at all, would love to have one myself, but i think I would also keep my other gear.

I think MHB from this forum has one, so i'm sure he will chime in soon.

Florian


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## Effect

For $2000 I have been able to source 2 fridges, 4 kegs (and kegging gear), fermenters, cubes, mashtun, burner, kettle - and 3 bags of grain and a kilo of nearly every specialty malt.

I would only buy one of these if I was going to retire and wanted an easy brew day and needed to save space. For $5000 I reckon I could build a 400 litre brew system.


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## bear09

brocky_555 said:


> I have seen these and have used one they are very good. Worth the money a 3 vessal system in on complete unit think of all the stuffing around you save by just buying this unit, no gas burners, no HLT, no mash tun just one microprossor controlled unit that does it all. I want one but cant afford it until after my renovations.



I would say that it is worth it but my problem is that I dont see 3k worth of value in it (reading that back it kinda does not make sense).

Surley there is someone on these forums with the skills and expertise to build something like this? If so, I reckon they could do it for <1000. I know busineses have to make a profit but I just dont see 3k there.

I would certainly want one of these if I was getting on a bit and had the coin. It would make for a very pleasant brew day.

Cheers all.


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## Sammus

I think MHB is the Aus distributor for these things, I saw a bunch of them in his shop a couple years ago anyway. I wouldn't be so quick to call it BIAB, in my opinion, BIAB is a kettle, a bag, no sparge, quick and easy. When you start sparging and adding a RIMS and pumps etc, it's moving away from the original premise of BIAB and into a bit of a grey area.

You may be able to build one for less, but remember this has a built in pump and RIMS with fully programmable step mashing as well, unless you're stealing kegs, finding bits and pieces for SFA at tips, getting a mate to fab SS for nix etc (ie if you want to build something like this completely legit and for mass production like a business might have to) I reckon the price is justified. Such a tidy a unit when you see them. If I had a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket and was looking to replace my brewery, I'd definitely be considering this as an option.


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## BrenosBrews

I'd buy one if I had a lot of spare money. However at the moment I have to wait until tomorrow when I get paid to just get a few kilos of grain & some hops.


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## Swinging Beef

Sammus said:


> .. If I had a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket and was looking to replace my brewery, I'd definitely be considering this as an option.


So, only a little bit from column 'A'?


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## Swinging Beef

I like the idea, for a commercial excercise.
Pop them into small restaurants or wineries that already have a license for booze, and get them selling BOP stuff.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Sammus said:


> I think MHB is the Aus distributor for these things, I saw a bunch of them in his shop a couple years ago anyway. I wouldn't be so quick to call it BIAB, in my opinion, BIAB is a kettle, a bag, no sparge, quick and easy. When you start sparging and adding a RIMS and pumps etc, it's moving away from the original premise of BIAB and into a bit of a grey area.
> 
> You may be able to build one for less, but remember this has a built in pump and RIMS with fully programmable step mashing as well, unless you're stealing kegs, finding bits and pieces for SFA at tips, getting a mate to fab SS for nix etc (ie if you want to build something like this completely legit and for mass production like a business might have to) I reckon the price is justified. Such a tidy a unit when you see them. If I had a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket and was looking to replace my brewery, I'd definitely be considering this as an option.



Semantics - but other than M^B, most BIABers (myself included) do sparge. It helps my efficiency to be above 80%, though there is a bloke here the other day that hit 92%. I got a 70-something the other day, but I think that my new hydrometer isn't calibrated right, and without a thermometer that goes down to 20 degrees, I'm guessing. I think it would be about 74-80% after adjustment for hydrometer out.

I think that the prejudice against BIAB by some of the AG community (I would never tar all with the same brush) is that a BIABer with a good system down pat (my system works well for me) will produce a beer of similar quality as a full 3V HERMS/RIMS, without the cost/effort of building one. There is always the top % of HERMS who are out of our (and probably anyone's) league and on the same front BIABers who aren't that good or don't understand all the concepts (for example doing a protein rest or removing cold break), but the median of each, I would venture, would not be much different, because the same basic brewing concepts apply, just the equipment to make use of those concepts vary. The same concept applied correctly on each system should produce the same result.

Having said that, if I did have a HERMS system, it would be far less effort for me to sparge, as it is pretty well automated and less picking up of bags, pots and the like. And a HERMS/RIMS system would allow me to do larger batches than BIAB is effectively capable of. I think that there is the beauty of 3V - the size, scope and reduced effort.

My 2 cents and likely to start a flame war and hate PMs against me, but having seen both sides of the fence - I don't think beer quality suffers if the brews are done correctly with each system. It's the brewer's ability and application of brewing concepts that have the biggest effect on beer quality.


Goomba


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## Florian

Swinging Beef said:


> I like the idea, for a commercial excercise.
> Pop them into small restaurants or wineries that already have a license for booze, and get them selling BOP stuff.



That's exactly what a lot of places in Germany do. That's why Speidel not only produces 20L and 50L versions, but also a 200L one. Makes it really easy for restaurants to brew their own house beer. and it's 'only' 8500 Euros plus tax and fright for the big one...


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## proudscum

Am waiting on mine to come direct as we speak.Two very small children means my v3 mash system has been sitting in the shed in parts for the last 4 yrs(that and working 3 jobs doing renovations and study)I will be able to make consistently good beers with very little fuss in my laundry with the door locked for child safety and not be dicking around in the shed for hours mainly as the shed will be demolished in the coming weeks.Being a fine dinning Chef i like a process that can be repeated,dont have the knowledge for wiring ,CPL etc.This product has really got me amped up about brewing again,Have cleaned all my equipment ,looking at buying a mill
(tried to get in on a bulk buy and missed out)bags of grain/stir plate /filters etc etc.Joined this forum got 3 new varieties of Hops in the ground.God am i the reincarnate of BIG KEV..im excited.

Just my 10cents as there are no longer 1,2,5cent pieces in NZ.And yes the capital of NZ is not 2Cents its Wellington.


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## MarkBastard

I like the idea of doing something like this but not quite as complicated.

Basically instead of having a bag, having a cylindrical stainless steel 'basket' with a reinforced fine mesh bottom. As well as this, having the ability to hoist the inner basket using the actual pot to support the weight. Maybe even being able to turn a crank to raise the basket up and down.

The actual bag is the only thing I don't like about BIAB. It's messy and annoying.


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## mxd

Mark^Bastard said:


> The actual bag is the only thing I don't like about BIAB. It's messy and annoying.




That's the part I like, pull the bag out, empty the grain, hang the bag on the line (inside out), when it's dry give it a shake and a rinse and it's ready for the next one.


This machine is the one that was used on Oz's and james (James May from top gear) beer adventure, or something like that.


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## MarkBastard

Don't oversell it. A newbie will read that and get the wrong idea.


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## Florian

mxd said:


> This machine is the one that was used on Oz's and james (James May from top gear) beer adventure, or something like that.



They actually used a different one to this, called BrauEule (translates to brew owl). The concept is a bit different as far as i know.

Florian


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## MHB

Sammus said:


> I think MHB is the Aus distributor for these things, I saw a bunch of them in his shop a couple years ago anyway. I wouldn't be so quick to call it BIAB, in my opinion, BIAB is a kettle, a bag, no sparge, quick and easy. When you start sparging and adding a RIMS and pumps etc, it's moving away from the original premise of BIAB and into a bit of a grey area.
> 
> You may be able to build one for less, but remember this has a built in pump and RIMS with fully programmable step mashing as well, unless you're stealing kegs, finding bits and pieces for SFA at tips, getting a mate to fab SS for nix etc (ie if you want to build something like this completely legit and for mass production like a business might have to) I reckon the price is justified. Such a tidy a unit when you see them. If I had a couple grand burning a hole in my pocket and was looking to replace my brewery, I'd definitely be considering this as an option.



I am one of the agents in Australia; I brought my Braumeister before I became an agent and became an agent because I was so impressed with the unit.
The only relationship between the Braumeister and BIAB is that both are basically full volume brewing (tho I do a bit of a flood sparge when the grain is lifted out).

Braumeister is a pumped recirculating RIMS system with a computer controlling the 5 step, time/temperature programmed infusion and boil time.
You set up the program before you start, I'm experimenting with enzyme conversion of raw sorghum Saturdays program was - Mash in at 50oC, hold at 50 oC for 60 minutes, raise to 65 oC for 60 minutes, raise to 70oC for 15 minutes, raise to 85oC for 30 minutes, lift the grain out and raise to 100oC.
That program ran unattended (actually I was over the pub having a couple of beer with Max) with a 1oC and 1 minute accuracy and repeatability. Just as easy as doing an isothermal mash.

So quite a bit different to BIAB

MHB


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## MarkBastard

Does it do the lifting and begin the boil automatically?


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## Florian

No, you have to manually lift it out, but can then rest it on the device for lautering. The 200L comes with a lifting 'crane', but you still have to manually start it.


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## MarkBastard

Okay.

Was just thinking, if you could automate the lowering and raising it'd be pretty awesome. Fill it with water the night before, and put the grain in the basket the night before too, then wake up for the start of the boil. Hell could even have 5 compartments for hops and configurable addition times and get that automated too. Then maybe use the recirc pump as a chiller if possible.


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## mje1980

maybe im old fashioned, but i like the KISS method, of an esky, a HLT, and a keggle, and No chill cubes. 3K?? Imagine how much grain and hops that could buy me?? 

Fancy bit of bling though, i must say hehe


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## Zwickel

Another point of view: think about the people who live in an appartment, means not everyone owns a house and a shed.

They could brew their beer in the kitchen, using a little space only.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Sammus

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Semantics - but other than M^B, most BIABers (myself included) do sparge. It helps my efficiency to be above 80%, though there is a bloke here the other day that hit 92%. I got a 70-something the other day, but I think that my new hydrometer isn't calibrated right, and without a thermometer that goes down to 20 degrees, I'm guessing. I think it would be about 74-80% after adjustment for hydrometer out.
> 
> I think that the prejudice against BIAB by some of the AG community (I would never tar all with the same brush) is that a BIABer with a good system down pat (my system works well for me) will produce a beer of similar quality as a full 3V HERMS/RIMS, without the cost/effort of building one. There is always the top % of HERMS who are out of our (and probably anyone's) league and on the same front BIABers who aren't that good or don't understand all the concepts (for example doing a protein rest or removing cold break), but the median of each, I would venture, would not be much different, because the same basic brewing concepts apply, just the equipment to make use of those concepts vary. The same concept applied correctly on each system should produce the same result.
> 
> Having said that, if I did have a HERMS system, it would be far less effort for me to sparge, as it is pretty well automated and less picking up of bags, pots and the like. And a HERMS/RIMS system would allow me to do larger batches than BIAB is effectively capable of. I think that there is the beauty of 3V - the size, scope and reduced effort.
> 
> My 2 cents and likely to start a flame war and hate PMs against me, but having seen both sides of the fence - I don't think beer quality suffers if the brews are done correctly with each system. It's the brewer's ability and application of brewing concepts that have the biggest effect on beer quality.
> 
> 
> Goomba



lol, a little defensive perhaps? chill out buddy, I'm not claiming one is better than the other, just saying that althought it may look like a BIAB system, it is far from it. 



Mark^Bastard said:


> I like the idea of doing something like this but not quite as complicated.
> 
> Basically instead of having a bag, having a cylindrical stainless steel 'basket' with a reinforced fine mesh bottom. As well as this, having the ability to hoist the inner basket using the actual pot to support the weight. Maybe even being able to turn a crank to raise the basket up and down.
> 
> The actual bag is the only thing I don't like about BIAB. It's messy and annoying.



Yeah this was my first idea, I had my kettle, then instead of a bag I used a cylindrical stainless steel vessel with a fine mesh bottom. To avoid having to hoist I made the side walls of my basket solid, and designed it so the filtered wort could be collected underneath the fine mesh bottom and fed into a pump. Then I realised I'd just build a mash tun


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## bear09

Zwickel said:


> Another point of view: think about the people who live in an appartment, means not everyone owns a house and a shed.
> 
> They could brew their beer in the kitchen, using a little space only.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



If you jump on the website you can buy a mini copper exhaust lid for them. It looks like a still lid. You can then connect a pipe onto this and have the steam vented away. This is a really good point. if you lived in an apartment and you set this up with some sort of venting for the steam you could brew in the tiniest of spaces. I reckon one day I will buy something like this - I can certainly see why it would be cool to have.

I also like the idea suggested by Mark^Bastard. Imagine being able to automate everything right up until cooling??

Set the timer, wake up at whatever time (kids its going to be before 6. No kids - it could be 1300 - 1400 in avo) and go out to a fully mashed, sparged and boiled wort. Coll er' down and job done.

Then again that would kinda spoil the whole point of home brewing I suppose.


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## Fents

Mark^Bastard said:


> Okay.
> 
> Was just thinking, if you could automate the lowering and raising it'd be pretty awesome. Fill it with water the night before, and put the grain in the basket the night before too, then wake up for the start of the boil. Hell could even have 5 compartments for hops and configurable addition times and get that automated too. Then maybe use the recirc pump as a chiller if possible.



is that you bandito?


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## koongara

Fents said:


> is that you bandito?



I like the look of this thing, shiny and precision german made, just a bit on the expensive side. All its lacking is a built in chiller.


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## Eater

Any info, cause im having trouble seeing it from the vids, does the pump push the wort up through the malt pipe and then overflow out the top?


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## koongara

Eater said:


> Any info, cause im having trouble seeing it from the vids, does the pump push the wort up through the malt pipe and then overflow out the top?


ring grain and grape, the boys in the shop have been playing with one and by all reports liking it


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## haysie

They really look good, even the youtube video made some sense albeit the German was a bit hard to understand. As mentioned previously for the restauranter who is brewing/beer inclined, a super niche addition in maybe a seasonal beer would be good for their business, then their are ales and lagers all crafted on site.. endless opportunity for brewer/entrepeneur. So simple, the kitchen hand can run it.

edit. spelling


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## beerbrewer76543

I read somewhere a bloke was getting the following efficiency numbers:

65% no sparge
75% 5L sparge
85% 5L sparge plus stirring during mash and sparge

Seeing 75% is achievable with relative ease I may end up swinging over to a similar design instead of a HERMS, that way I can brew in my apartment with the smaller equipment footprint instead of at the old man's place

Much to ponder

Cheers 

edit: I have an 80L vessel to convert for (hopefully) triple batches


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## brocky_555

Eater said:


> Any info, cause im having trouble seeing it from the vids, does the pump push the wort up through the malt pipe and then overflow out the top?




Yes thats how its done clarifies the wort while its mashing. It is really hard to make a cloudy beer with this unit because the wort is filtered through the mash over and over.


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## mxd

pretty good, if you in Germany it's a bit under 3k for the 50 ltr unit.


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## Bribie G

Mark^Bastard said:


> I like the idea of doing something like this but not quite as complicated.
> 
> Basically instead of having a bag, having a cylindrical stainless steel 'basket' with a reinforced fine mesh bottom. As well as this, having the ability to hoist the inner basket using the actual pot to support the weight. Maybe even being able to turn a crank to raise the basket up and down.
> 
> The actual bag is the only thing I don't like about BIAB. It's messy and annoying.



Spot on Mark B. I had actually planned a version that would use an existing urn, as a Bunnings straight-sided pail fits nicely into a 40L urn, to provide a malt pipe (with a false bottom) as in the Braumeister, so with a three way ball valve tap and a march pump you could:


Recirculate through a grain bed
Do step mashes RIMS style by turning on the urn and ramp up the temperature incrementally whilst recirculating over the element at the bottom of the urn. 
Do a mini sparge if required for a bigger grain bill

When I added up the costs I just bought a second urn and bag, but who knows in the future.................


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## Bill F

So, I'm a little bit old school, but what dimmensions does the immersion coil need to be? I suppose you could just plonk it in the tub. Brew in the bathroom, that would be the go...


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## Thirsty Boy

You have to compare these things with something similar, it pointless comparing them to the system you whipped up out of old ice cream tubs and string... You have to assume that when you are thinking about one of these... You are playing in the realm of off the shelf turnkey breweries

So you can get a 50L braumeister from G&G for $4000 - how much to buy a different system that will do the same stuff??

G&G's 50L HERMS - $4500 and it's nowhere near as automated
More Beer 50L tippy sculpture HERMS - Upgraded to make it as automatic as the braumeister.. $3850 before shipping from the US
Sabco Brewmagic - $5600 before shipping from the US
Beer Belly - more than $5500 for the same level of functionality.

Now I am not saying for a secomd that these systems are better, worse or even directly comparable.. But I am saying that if you are talking about 50L or so, automated, recirculating brewhouses... The Braumeister unit is not only not "expensive" it's well and truly at the lower end of the price scale and seems to be at the upper end of the Functionality range as well.

So well worth considering if you are in the market for a turnkey system.


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## bear09

Thirsty Boy said:


> You have to compare these things with something similar, it pointless comparing them to the system you whipped up out of old ice cream tubs and string... You have to assume that when you are thinking about one of these... You are playing in the realm of off the shelf turnkey breweries
> 
> So you can get a 50L braumeister from G&G for $4000 - how much to buy a different system that will do the same stuff??
> 
> G&G's 50L HERMS - $4500 and it's nowhere near as automated
> More Beer 50L tippy sculpture HERMS - Upgraded to make it as automatic as the braumeister.. $3850 before shipping from the US
> Sabco Brewmagic - $5600 before shipping from the US
> Beer Belly - more than $5500 for the same level of functionality.
> 
> Now I am not saying for a secomd that these systems are better, worse or even directly comparable.. But I am saying that if you are talking about 50L or so, automated, recirculating brewhouses... The Braumeister unit is not only not "expensive" it's well and truly at the lower end of the price scale and seems to be at the upper end of the Functionality range as well.
> 
> So well worth considering if you are in the market for a turnkey system.



Its posts like this that I was really looking for when I started his one. This is the information I wanted and now I can see the VALUE in this piece of hardware.

When laid out like this I can see how it could be a great investment for the home brewer.

I shall see how I go in a few years.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Sammus said:


> lol, a little defensive perhaps? chill out buddy, I'm not claiming one is better than the other, just saying that althought it may look like a BIAB system, it is far from it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah this was my first idea, I had my kettle, then instead of a bag I used a cylindrical stainless steel vessel with a fine mesh bottom. To avoid having to hoist I made the side walls of my basket solid, and designed it so the filtered wort could be collected underneath the fine mesh bottom and fed into a pump. Then I realised I'd just build a mash tun



Sorry if it came across too defensive. I have a cold and typed at home, so the words that pour onto the keyboard weren't as articulate and fluid as normal.

I probably am little defensive in some ways, because I've made comments such as "I can do this with BIAB" and been shot down by the purists who've said "BIAB isn't real AG brewing" or "you can't get a decent beer with BIAB like you can with [insert other method]". Or even BIABers who've said "the Nick_JD method isn't real BIAB brewing" then proceeded to slag Nick_JD and the stovetop method off. Maybe, not defensive, just offering my caveat before I start the flame war inadvertantly.

I feel strongly about BIAB - it did get me into AG, and I believe one can produce great beers with it. I think its biggest limitation isn't necessarily the quality of beer, just the quantity of quality beer that can be produced and the effort taken to produce said beer. So I offered an honest olive branch to the HERMS/RIMS/3V guys as well.

Anywho, hope this clears it up.


Goomba


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

L_Bomb said:


> I read somewhere a bloke was getting the following efficiency numbers:
> 
> 65% no sparge
> 75% 5L sparge
> 85% 5L sparge plus stirring during mash and sparge
> 
> Seeing 75% is achievable with relative ease I may end up swinging over to a similar design instead of a HERMS, that way I can brew in my apartment with the smaller equipment footprint instead of at the old man's place
> 
> Much to ponder
> 
> Cheers
> 
> edit: I have an 80L vessel to convert for (hopefully) triple batches



Consistently 80% plus with a sparge. Use a pasta pot/vege steamer to put the grain bag in. Works a treat and saves me hanging bags up.

Goomba


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## MHB

No reason to be defensive/apologetic or for anyone to take this subject to heart. I like my Braumeister it suits me and the time I have available to devote to brewing.
BIAB, the stove top variation, three vessel, HERMS, RIMS or the biggest flashest gold plated bit of brew porn are all just ways to make beer, the one that works for you is the right one for you.

Some of us find the cost of a turnkey system a bit daunting (mine cost about $5K, the AUD sucked against the Euro and it was air freighted by Lufthansa) at the time that hurt, but I haven't regretted it for 1 second.
Everyone here knows I sell Braumeister over the years I have been a member of AHB I have tried very hard not to "Advertise" in threads, advertising isn't what I want from AHB. Happy to answer questions about Braumeister based on having done about 100 brews on one and on having supported half a dozen other Braumeister owners.

A couple of points raised above that I would like to address: -
The question of chilling, I have used an inline chiller an immersion chiller, now I just no-chill, it's too easy, my knockout exactly fills 2 X 20L cubes so almost exactly 45L, I can them brew them as single batches at my leisure in any order I like.
On standard beer (1.045-50) I get 80% brewhouse efficiency without trying too hard, the worst I have ever got was about 37% but that wort knocked out at 1.114 so to be expected, the best about 85% for a Mild.
The elements in the Braumeister are Stainless Steel and really long, in the 50L version (3.2kW) the total length is just under 7 Meters, in the 20 L Braumeister (2 kW) the element is 2.6 Metres long. Long low heat density elements are much better than shorter hotter elements they cost more but they last longer, cause less darkening and aren't as prone to causing burnt flavours.

MHB


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## Sydneybrewer

i was previously saving up my coin for a HERMS but now after some research i am saving for a BRAUMEISTER as it suits my space limitations better, and my time management, due to my work and side business i find very little time to brew and rarely have half a day or so spare for brewing.


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## ~MikE

Thirsty Boy said:


> You have to compare these things with something similar, it pointless comparing them to the system you whipped up out of old ice cream tubs and string... You have to assume that when you are thinking about one of these... You are playing in the realm of off the shelf turnkey breweries
> 
> So you can get a 50L braumeister from G&G for $4000 - how much to buy a different system that will do the same stuff??
> 
> G&G's 50L HERMS - $4500 and it's nowhere near as automated
> More Beer 50L tippy sculpture HERMS - Upgraded to make it as automatic as the braumeister.. $3850 before shipping from the US
> Sabco Brewmagic - $5600 before shipping from the US
> Beer Belly - more than $5500 for the same level of functionality.
> 
> Now I am not saying for a secomd that these systems are better, worse or even directly comparable.. But I am saying that if you are talking about 50L or so, automated, recirculating brewhouses... The Braumeister unit is not only not "expensive" it's well and truly at the lower end of the price scale and seems to be at the upper end of the Functionality range as well.
> 
> So well worth considering if you are in the market for a turnkey system.



those HERMS systems have a lot more SS to show for the price which i think is why people mightn't consider the braumeister good value. having said that i think i could piece together something with the same features and functionality as the braumeister for half the price - not counting man-hours - plus it wouldn't look as nice...


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## winkle

OMG, that 200l thingy is sweet as.... :icon_drool2: 

Oh well, back to the keg-like objects and esky. <_<


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## Ross

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I probably am little defensive in some ways, because I've made comments such as "I can do this with BIAB" and been shot down by the purists who've said "BIAB isn't real AG brewing" or "you can't get a decent beer with BIAB like you can with [insert other method]".
> 
> Goomba



Hi Goomba - A little off topic, but would be interested in links to back up these comments. I'm not saying they weren't said, just interested to see who these purists (idiots) are you're accusing of saying BIAB isn't real AG brewing.

Cheers Ross


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## MarkBastard

MHB said:


> No reason to be defensive/apologetic or for anyone to take this subject to heart. I like my Braumeister it suits me and the time I have available to devote to brewing.
> BIAB, the stove top variation, three vessel, HERMS, RIMS or the biggest flashest gold plated bit of brew porn are all just ways to make beer, the one that works for you is the right one for you.
> 
> Some of us find the cost of a turnkey system a bit daunting (mine cost about $5K, the AUD sucked against the Euro and it was air freighted by Lufthansa) at the time that hurt, but I haven't regretted it for 1 second.
> Everyone here knows I sell Braumeister over the years I have been a member of AHB I have tried very hard not to "Advertise" in threads, advertising isn't what I want from AHB. Happy to answer questions about Braumeister based on having done about 100 brews on one and on having supported half a dozen other Braumeister owners.
> 
> A couple of points raised above that I would like to address: -
> The question of chilling, I have used an inline chiller an immersion chiller, now I just no-chill, it's too easy, my knockout exactly fills 2 X 20L cubes so almost exactly 45L, I can them brew them as single batches at my leisure in any order I like.
> On standard beer (1.045-50) I get 80% brewhouse efficiency without trying too hard, the worst I have ever got was about 37% but that wort knocked out at 1.114 so to be expected, the best about 85% for a Mild.
> The elements in the Braumeister are Stainless Steel and really long, in the 50L version (3.2kW) the total length is just under 7 Meters, in the 20 L Braumeister (2 kW) the element is 2.6 Metres long. Long low heat density elements are much better than shorter hotter elements they cost more but they last longer, cause less darkening and aren't as prone to causing burnt flavours.
> 
> MHB



Thanks for the feedback, I one for find it very interesting and would like to hear more and I don't think it's like you're selling so don't worry about that.

I definitely cant' get one any time soon but I reckon this is the avenue I'll end up going down in 5-10 years and hopefully by then they may be a bit cheaper and perhaps evolved to be a bit better (though they sound awesome already).

Even though I like brewing beer, I like the drinking and kegging side more than the brewing side. I like the recipe formulation etc but the actual act of brewing isn't 100% appealing to me. It's mainly a time thing though. If I could automate it more then I would brew a lot more.


----------



## drtomc

Ross, I have not read such comments here, but when I first came across a reference to BIAB on Oliver & Geoff's, I googled it and found a thread on [um, can't remember exactly - but some US forum] with TB and PP giving a spirited defence of BIAB, with a lot of "it can't possibly produce *good* beer" posts from the resident brewer crowd. Admittedly, at the time there were no competition results to give a reasonably objective comparison, but one did suspect at the time that the loudest nay-sayers had the most expensive trad rigs. 

T.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Ross said:


> Hi Goomba - A little off topic, but would be interested in links to back up these comments. I'm not saying they weren't said, just interested to see who these purists (idiots) are you're accusing of saying BIAB isn't real AG brewing.
> 
> Cheers Ross



G'day Ross,

Have tried. First port of call was to look for a particular individual who has done it, but of course the profile read only lists the last 5 or 6 posts, not all (from what I can figure). Next port of call was to try any topic started/significantly contributed to by Nick_JD or Pistol Patch, that didn't work - I know they're there, but it's a matter of massaging the search to get it for me.

Not trying to start a slagging match, but I did have to ingore a couple of people who started flame wars/trolling my posts.

I'll defend BIAB to the death, but I take on board your implied note - I should save all the posts of all the people who have bagged BIAB, and not shoot my mouth (typing fingers) off without having my proof readily accessible. :blink: 

Goomba

edit: 

Here's one that started. - well kinda and another one.. I'm finding a lot of references to these said posts, but as yet, haven't got the search function to find me the posts. I've given up - I have work to do.


----------



## MarkBastard

I am really happy with BIAB but I've never used 3V so I will not comment on BIAB vs 3V.

If you haven't done both, don't comment IMO.

That is unless you're talking about a specific claim, like say if a 3V person said BIAB can't make good beer. You can refute that. But if they said 3V is easier to make better beer, well you don't know really do you.


----------



## earle

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> but of course the profile read only lists the last 5 or 6 posts, not all (from what I can figure).



Don't go into the profile. While you viewing one of their messages, click on their name and select _view member posts_. You'll get a long list, pages and pages.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

earle said:


> Don't go into the profile. While you viewing one of their messages, click on their name and select _view member posts_. You'll get a long list, pages and pages.



Thanks earle. I had another member also PM about how to do this. Still getting used to buttons other than "post".

Goomba


----------



## Swinging Beef

This thread is going somewhere new fast.


----------



## haysie

Swinging Beef said:


> This thread is going somewhere new fast.



Back on track,
Do they require a 15amp plug for the 3600w element?
@MHB or other users, reliable/serviceable/warranty?. While we have the thread up lets get into em balls n all.


----------



## MHB

The 50 L version certainly needs a 15A plug, I had dedicated circuit installed with an earth leakage detector from memory it cost about $450, the 20 L version is fine in a standard socket. I would in any case make sure there was an earth leakage detector on any circuit where I brewed; playing in water and holding 240 volts will ruin your whole day.

I have sold 6 Braumeisters, so far we have had 1 computer play up, Braumeister sent a new one air mail it was here in a couple of days.
About 100 brews and 3 years in and I am thinking of replacing the fabric filters that sits on the perforated stainless supports and the silicone seal at the bottom of the malt tube is getting on. Not urgent but looking second hand - to date that's it.
So in my experience the reliability is high, the warranty is 12 months, if you go to http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/ on the left hand side is "Terms and Conditions" see section 8, you can read all the legal gobbledygook; remember Speidel (the parent company) is also a large manufacture of winemaking equipment, the same T&C are there for those products to.

I carry some parts, won't be getting rich selling them!

MHB


----------



## Florian

Have been looking at the braumeister again for parts of the day, I really start to like it a lot. Reading the complete manual answered most of my questions.
However, how do you circulate your wort before draining to the kettle like you would on a conventional mash tun? I guess you could drain through the tap and recirculate onto the grain bed before slowly raising the grain. But is it necessary? Do people actually do it? There is no reference to it in the manual so I assume it's not common?

Florian


----------



## Weizguy

Florian said:


> Have been looking at the braumeister again for parts of the day, I really start to like it a lot. Reading the complete manual answered most of my questions.
> However, how do you circulate your wort before draining to the kettle like you would on a conventional mash tun? I guess you could drain through the tap and recirculate onto the grain bed before slowly raising the grain. But is it necessary? Do people actually do it? There is no reference to it in the manual so I assume it's not common?
> 
> Florian


Well Florian, having seen the 'Meister in action and having brewed a few with MHB, I can answer that.

There is a circulation pump that cycles the wort through the enclosed grain constantly during the mash temp schedule/regime. By the end of the mash, the wort is quite clear and you just need to lift the grain colander out of the wort and drain it.

Hope this helps. MHB will correct me if I'm wrong, or too simplistic.


----------



## Thirsty Boy

I'm having trouble building a good mental picture of the "purification" step.

I get that teh wort is fundamentally clear due to the recirculation during the mash - but doesn't the wort circulate through the grain bed from bottom to top? And given that, when you pull out the malt tube and it drains out, presumably through the bottom... Doesn't that sort of back flush the whole thing, wreck the established grain bed structure and make cloudy wort come out? And again if you happen to sparge... Going backwards against the grain bed structure established during the mash recirculation.

Or is it just a case that what seems like it "would" happen, just doesn't in reality actually happen?

Oh, and is it possible to do a 20l batch in the 50L unit?

TB


----------



## Florian

Les, that's what I first thought as well, and it does make sence, but same as TB I'm concerned about the grain bed structure that gets wrecked. But somehow I think that it is a case of, as TB put it nicely, that "what seems like it "would" happen, just doesn't in reality actually happen." So I'm hoping for users to chime in. The fact that Les has seen it underlines that theory.
I will also ask that question on the german forums and see what they have to say.

TB, you can do smaller batches on the 50L unit, there is a short malt pipe available for that purpose.

Somehow I still think I would stick to the 20L unit, guess you could easily do 25L or larger batches with post boil dilution in it?

Florian


----------



## MHB

Thirsty Boy said:


> I'm having trouble building a good mental picture of the "purification" step.
> 
> I get that teh wort is fundamentally clear due to the recirculation during the mash - but doesn't the wort circulate through the grain bed from bottom to top? And given that, when you pull out the malt tube and it drains out, presumably through the bottom... Doesn't that sort of back flush the whole thing, wreck the established grain bed structure and make cloudy wort come out? And again if you happen to sparge... Going backwards against the grain bed structure established during the mash recirculation.
> 
> Or is it just a case that what seems like it "would" happen, just doesn't in reality actually happen?
> 
> Oh, and is it possible to do a 20l batch in the 50L unit?
> 
> TB


You would think so wouldn't you it doesn't happen.

In part the term Purification could be an issue with translation think more Clarification 

The malt pipe is quite full when you mash in, because of the constant recirculation the system spends an hour or more slowly migrating all the small partials up through the grain bed (remember there is a fabric filter at the top and bottom). When you lift the malt pipe it is removed as a unit with the filters in place. The 10-15 minutes you spend doing a flood sparge isn't enough to undo the process.

It's a very elegant balance,

I heat 10 L (1L/Kg Malt) of water to 80oC in an urn, lift the malt pipe at the end of mashing, rest it on the support stirrup, then pour the hot water into the top of the malt pipe, Braumeister gives temperature rate of rise of very close to 1oC/Minute so there is about 20 minutes between end of mashing and start of boil for the hot water to rinse through the grain. Just before it comes to the boil, lift the malt pipe off and put it in a basin to drain - and if you like toss any runnings in into the Braumeister before the end of the boil.

MHB


----------



## randyrob

Hey Guys,

A mate drew this up for me when i was trying to understand how the Braumeisters worked when i was playing around with an autoBIAB setup.





Cheers Rob.


----------



## Eater

If im understanding correctly after reading back through the thread again (great evolution in this one) im still struggling with where some of the clarification comes from

Ive edited the pic as supplied above with my concerns, which only come from the vids where i see a lot of material overflowing from the top of the malt pipe
!

Red is material from overflow of malt pipe.


----------



## MHB

The term Purification can be confusing; it comes from someone whose first language isn't English doing the translation. A better term might be Clarification.

After mash in, when recirculation starts the liquor is milky white with fine malt flour. As the mash and recirculation continues the liquor is filtered through the grain bed - after about 15-20 minutes it is crystal clear.
Remember that the recirculation is continuous throughout the entire mash time, generally 1-1 hours by this time the fines have migrated well up the grain bed so when you hoist the malt tube (and if you sparge) they don't run back down into the wort.
Many brewers don't realise that a lot of soluble protein (what we see as hot break) in a wort condenses at mashing temperatures and is trapped in a well recirculated grain bed, so I suppose you could say the wort was Purified I still think Clarified would be a better description.
Hopefully I'll be brewing tomorrow so I will try and take a couple of pictures to show what I'm talking about.

MHB


----------



## Eater

That would be great if you could MHB, much appreciated


----------



## Florian

Photos would be great, MHB.

What I have gathered from the the german forums so far:

- some users mash in to 38 degrees water and leave it at that temperature for 2,5 hours or even overnight > apparently helps efficency

- quite a few users do not use the fabric filter, but only the stainless steel false bottom in the malt pipe. Apparently this works with an 0,8mm crush, and no grain is left over in the wort. Some others remove the fabric filter, but substitute it with a smaller stainless steel mesh, e.g. made from a splash guard for a wok or pan (from IKEA)

-5.5kg of crushed malt seems to be the absolute upper limit for the 20L Braumeister, anything above that and the pump is not able to circulate the mash anymore, as it gets too compact.

-people who naturally carbonate take a portion of the finished wort, freeze it, and use it later for priming. This is also recommended in the manual that comes with the Braumeister. Great method for all forms of brewing, rather than adding sugar or dextrose.

-most users are very happy with their purchase and don't regret it.

-some users have built a simple "stand" (basically two square ss pipes) for the malt pipe to sit higher on the unit, so more sparge water can be used.


That's what I remember so far, but I'm sure there was more interesting stuff to note.

Florian


----------



## MarkBastard

By that diagram it looks like the malt gets sort of squeezed? Is that correct? If so that's pretty awesome. Can you use it to squeeze the grain after raising as well?


----------



## hazard

Florian said:


> Photos would be great, MHB.
> 
> What I have gathered from the the german forums so far:



How did you figure all that out Florian? I checked this link, but its all double dutch (deutch??) to me! 


I studied German to Year 10 high school but that was 33 years ago (whoops, showing my age) and I don't think we focussed on the terms relating to brewing.


----------



## Florian

hazard said:


> How did you figure all that out Florian? I checked this link, but its all double dutch (deutch??) to me!
> 
> 
> I studied German to Year 10 high school but that was 33 years ago (whoops, showing my age) and I don't think we focussed on the terms relating to brewing.




Well, that must have something to do with the fact that I am... errrrr... very intelligent errrr... german  
Now it's out! Please don't hold it against me


----------



## winkle

Florian,
you really need to get the 50l one.
(Mainly so I can get a good look at it in action  )


----------



## hazard

Florian said:


> What I have gathered from the the german forums so far:
> 
> - some users mash in to 38 degrees water and leave it at that temperature for 2,5 hours or even overnight > apparently helps efficency


I think John palmer also recommends a mash-in at 40 deg - says that you get better gelatinisation of the barley. But he writes in English so i can more easily understand him  . I think he also recommends a first rest at 45 deg if there's lots of wheat and stuff, this combines the gelatinisation rest and a protein rest (normally 50 deg) in one hit.


----------



## Florian

winkle said:


> Florian,
> you really need to get the 50l one.
> (Mainly so I can get a good look at it in action  )



Not sure yet, but Christmas is coming up, so we will see. Not sure though why I should get the 50L, I think the 20L would be enough.

Here's a link on how to pimp up the filter plates with an $5 IKEA splash guard. The pictures speak for themselves, no need to translate the whole thing.

Florian


----------



## dr K

what's gelatinisation?


----------



## felten

http://www.encyclo.co.uk/define/Gelatinisation there you go, now you know, and knowing is half the battle


----------



## MHB

That will teach you to be subtle Dr K, I reckon he's thinking of a β-Glucan rest, not the same as the old German overnight mash in which allowed all the enzymes to get into solution (and probably some bio-acidification). Means that as you heat the mash to more conventional mashing temperatures you're going to hit all the enzymes on the way up.

Ah the joys of brewing with under-modified malt.

MHB

PS felten you just had your leg quite royally pulled.


----------



## felten

I know Dr K is an old hand, just taking the piss myself and procrastinating instead of cleaning my kettle ;\


----------



## Thirsty Boy

Hydration rest I think...

Thanks MHB, the filter cloths go a long way to making me understand how this jigger works, I wasn't aware of them before.

Sort of a bastard cross between a standard mash/lauter paradigm and a mash filter. Anything fine enough to make it through the filter cloths is basically going to get converted to sugar, any leftovers are well trapped in the middle of a fairly well constrained grain bed... And there is still the filter cloth to deal with even if they didn't..

I like these things, always have and the more I learn about them the more I like them.. Still, in the interests of exploring their potential and their limits - What about "big" beers?? With the malt pipe apparently being limited to 5.5 or so kgs (20L unit) you'd struggle with high gravity beers? Mind you you could just do a re-iterated mash, but if high gravity beers were your "thing" that might be a bit of a PITA to go through regularly?


----------



## hazard

MHB said:


> That will teach you to be subtle Dr K, I reckon he's thinking of a β-Glucan rest, not the same as the old German overnight mash in which allowed all the enzymes to get into solution (and probably some bio-acidification). Means that as you heat the mash to more conventional mashing temperatures you're going to hit all the enzymes on the way up.
> 
> Ah the joys of brewing with under-modified malt.
> 
> MHB
> 
> PS felten you just had your leg quite royally pulled.


 :icon_offtopic: Or was it me having my leg pulled? OK so I tried to quote Palmer without checking the reference text and confused myself and others. Here is what he actually says on the on-line version of HTB (I've got the book at home I think the text is somewhat different)

"To the best of my knowledge, the temperature rest (holding period) for phytase is no longer used by any commercial brewery. However, this regime (95-113F) is sometimes used by brewers for "Doughing In"- mixing the grist with the water to allow time for the malt starches to soak up water and time for the enzymes to be distributed. The debranching enzymes, e.g. limit dextrinase, are most active in this regime and break up a small percentage of dextrins at this early stage of the mash. The vast majority of debranching occurs during malting as a part of the modification process. Only a small percentage of the debranching enzymes survive the drying and kilning processes after malting, so not much more debranching can be expected. *With all of that being said, the use of a 20 minute rest at temperatures near 104F (40C) has been shown to be beneficial to improving the yield from all enzymatic malts. This step is considered optional but can improve the total yield by a couple of points."*

Does this make it clear? And to answer Dr K's original question, Palmer also says that "Once hydrated, the starches can be gelatinized (made soluble)" ie gelatinisation is dissolving the starch in solution. But it appears that you already know this.


----------



## haysie

Does Barry from Canberra use a Braumeister? <_<


----------



## proudscum

MHB said:


> That will teach you to be subtle Dr K, I reckon he's thinking of a β-Glucan rest, not the same as the old German overnight mash in which allowed all the enzymes to get into solution (and probably some bio-acidification). Means that as you heat the mash to more conventional mashing temperatures you're going to hit all the enzymes on the way up.
> 
> Ah the joys of brewing with under-modified malt.
> 
> MHB
> 
> PS felten you just had your leg quite royally pulled.



When brewing do you use whole hops/pellets/hop bag to stop the trub and hops going from your kettle to fermenter?Or do you use a filter of some nature between kettle and fermenter?

cheers.


----------



## Florian

MHB said:


> The term Purification can be confusing; it comes from someone whose first language isn't English doing the translation. A better term might be Clarification.


 Looking through the german document, it seems they are actually talking about lautering here, so basically just lifting the malt pipe up. Not sure why they used 'purification' in the english version, just a bad translation for a word that doesn't really need translating.





Thirsty Boy said:


> What about "big" beers?? With the malt pipe apparently being limited to 5.5 or so kgs (20L unit) you'd struggle with high gravity beers? Mind you you could just do a re-iterated mash, but if high gravity beers were your "thing" that might be a bit of a PITA to go through regularly?


The re-iterated mash is a great idea, hadn't thought about it before, but that would be the way to go for big beers I guess. I wouldn't want to do it on a weekly basis, but once in a while should be OK, especially seeing you really only need to lift the malt pipe, empty it, fill it again, put it back in and let it run through another automated mash cycle. Not too hard, really.


----------



## ausdb

I'm "that guy" which drew the diagram that Randyrob posted on how the Braumeister works.

I have always been intrigued by these things and would welcome some info on what sort of pump they use, from the stuff I have seen it just looks like a brass circulating pump? and also what is the fabric filter material made from?

I am sure with some modifications to Robs HABS control system an "aussie brewmaster" could be put together.


----------



## Florian

ausdb said:


> I have always been intrigued by these things and would welcome some info on what sort of pump they use, from the stuff I have seen it just looks like a brass circulating pump?



In this link you can see a few pictures of the pump, more towards the end. I have seen a better picture somewhere else, but can't find it now. They are from the company Laing.





ausdb said:


> and also what is the fabric filter material made from?



As far as I know you will do better without the fabric filter, just modify one of these:





this is commonly done in Germany, the consensus is that it increases your efficiency and is easier on the pump. I have posted a link to instructions on how to implement it earlier in this thread.

Also, have a look at the "quarter-square-meter-brewery". This is a very impressive home made Braumeister clone, it has even an automated hop feeder.

Sorry if this is getting too :icon_offtopic:


----------



## winkle

Florian said:


> (snip)
> Also, have a look at the "quarter-square-meter-brewery". This is a very impressive home made Braumeister clone, it has even an automated hop feeder.



Very impressive indeed :icon_cheers:


----------



## MHB

Like I said had a brew day earlier in the week (another one tomorrow) and took a heap of photos, was going to get some extra ones tomorrow, including of the pump, the pix in link Florian posted pretty well cover that.

As for the filters, I modified mine, adding a drawstring that makes them much easier to use and have got about 100 brews out of them so no complaints, just ordered some more along with four more Braumeisters. I for one can't see why you would be bothered to make one out of stainless as the nylon work just fine.

Back to the Clarification/Purifying here are a couple of pictures of the wort recirculating first is right at the start second is about an hour in. The brew is a Belgian Wheat and has 34% Unmalted Wheat and 10% Oat Malt, so it is never going to be crystal clear, tho part of the experiment was to get it as clear as possible (rests at both 40 and 50oC) then up to more normal mashing temperatures.

MHB


----------



## aboatella

Hi, 

I have been brewing with malt extract kits for a while now and I want to move to all grain. As Christmas is right at the corner I will have some spare money to spare with equipment. 

Basically I have two options, and one has nothing to do with the other (I know).

I would like to have your opinion. is it worth to spend all that money on the Braumeinster without having a prior experience in all grain brewing? 

Here are the 2 options and prices. Sorry all the detalils are in spanis 

BRAUMEINSTER

ALL GRAIN KIT

Many thanks in advance,
Albert


----------



## thelastspud

Hey Hows it going Albert ? Your up in Barcelona right now? Im living in malaga right now. What I think you should do it read this thread

[topic="0"]the move to all grain for thirty bucks[/topic]
If you have any trouble reading it i can translate it into spanish for you(but not catalan)

So the first page explains how you can do a few small all grain brews really cheaply. Now those two kits you linked too sound really expensive to me. i think you could spend about 100 euro and get everything you need to make 20 litre batches


----------



## Thirsty Boy

Maybe you should try a smaller batch, very low cost brewery to start with... But if i could buy a braumeister system for that price, i would buy one tomorrow. Especiqlly as it comes with lots of extra equipment too.

I think both those systems you linked to are really quite good value for what you are getting. For me, the Braumeister, although a little more expensive would be the better choice


----------



## aboatella

Hi,

Thank you both for your answers  I will definitely take a look at that thread and probably try some batches before spending all that money.

Yes I am living near Barcelona. When it comes to homebrewing Forums I think the best of them are in English. I guess the germans are good as well but I couldn't understand more than a couple of words. 

Cheers! 
Al


----------



## yambor44

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I have been brewing for three years now and all grain about 2 1/2 of that. I have "progressed" to a Brutus 10 type single tier system. I use natural gas and jet burners. I recently purchased a panel box and other components (Pids, SSR's, heat sinks, sensors, RIMS tube etc) and added a 50 amp GFCI breaker and outlet to make the switch to electric. I have been looking at these Braumeister units for a while and wish I would have found this thread before making the aforementioned purchases!!

I still may look into selling my existing unit and going with the 20l version. 

Thanks for all of the good information.


----------



## Bribie G

Urnest and Urnold the Urnynator twins send their love and reckon they have more fun together (as well as making twice the beer) than a lonely little Braumeister  












:beerbang:


----------



## Thirsty Boy

Urnest and Urnold? Sounds less like twins and more like an Austrian gay couple to me - i mean, look at the fashion!


----------



## Bribie G

Thirsty Boy said:


> Urnest and Urnold? Sounds less like twins and more like an Austrian gay couple to me - i mean, look at the fashion!



Definitely Austrian, and gay. Glad they get locked in the garage every night.


----------



## MarkBastard

Bribie, I've always been thinking a kids sleeping bag would be a good way to lag an urn. What do you reckon? Or maybe even cut a adults one to size.


----------



## Bribie G

wow getting off topic sorry

If I'm doing a single batch I do a double lag using a sleeping bag. It's just a cheapo I bought for the kids when they were about 9 / 13 so not quite adult size. The other one's disappeared otherwise I'd use both, hence the coats I got from the opshop for the double batches.











Double batch I use the coats, get about the same temperature drop.










:icon_cheers:


----------



## Brewjohno

BribieG said:


> Definitely Austrian, and gay. Glad they get locked in the garage every night.



Couldn't help but notice that Urnest has gotten a grip on Urnolds spout.


----------



## Bribie G

The Crown spout is much more robust than the Birko one.


----------



## schooey

BribieG said:


> Urnest and Urnold the Urnynator twins send their love and reckon they have more fun together (as well as making twice the beer) than a lonely little Braumeister
> 
> :beerbang:



Pfft... I see your measly Urnest and whatever and raise you a Bertha and Brutus.... no scandavian fashion accessories required... <_<




You'll notice the latest 'must have' brewing accessory out of Panania, NSW... 

*The Cranstonator
*
or picnic table to the uneducated...


----------



## Malted

schooey said:


> Pfft... I see your measly Urnest and whatever and raise you a Bertha and Brutus.... no scandavian fashion accessories required... <_<
> 
> View attachment 43214
> 
> 
> You'll notice the latest 'must have' brewing accessory out of Panania, NSW...
> 
> *The Cranstonator
> *
> or picnic table to the uneducated...



Sorry to ask a real question (out of Braumeister ignorance): So you have the urn for sparging?


----------



## schooey

Yep. The urn is just for a bit of sparge and cleaning water. Seems you can never have enough hot water on a brew day...


----------



## MarkBastard

Is that the '20L' braumeister? What is its actual capacity? It looks bigger than 40L


----------



## Bribie G

Is the discharge cock (their terminology B) ) threaded? So you can plumb it into chiller, transfer pump etc?


----------



## MHB

Mark^Bastard said:


> Is that the '20L' braumeister? What is its actual capacity? It looks bigger than 40L


No that's the 50 L Braumeister




BribieG said:


> Is the discharge cock (their terminology B) ) threaded? So you can plumb it into chiller, transfer pump etc?


Yes 3/4" BSP, so no problem getting fittings to connect if you want to.
MHB


----------



## Thirsty Boy

Is there a way (or perhaps a mod you could do) to put the unit's built in pump into the discharge loop? Seems a waste to have the pump there, but not be able to use it for transferring if you want to.


----------



## schooey

The 50L I have has twin pumps. They are pretty much plumbed into a 'U loop' that's as minimalistic as possible under the machine. They are also controlled by the inbuilt computer and come witrh their own unique little German plug.

Short answer: Yes, you probably could if you really wanted to...

Long Answer:... but it wouldn't be an easy mod, more a major PITA and would probably cost you more than the $200 odd dollars people are landing March pumps here for at the current exchange rate. I'm toying with the idea of buying an 80L SS pot and a pump to make a whirlpool vessel, but it's a pipe dream at the moment. Everytime I start thinking about the logistics of it, I remind myself why I went and bought the Kraut bling in the first place...

Simplicity!


----------



## MHB

Thirsty Boy said:


> Is there a way (or perhaps a mod you could do) to put the unit's built in pump into the discharge loop? Seems a waste to have the pump there, but not be able to use it for transferring if you want to.



Well this got me to thinking. what schooey said is also right joining into the plumbing underneath would be a PITA, so it has to be an in from top easy to use plug in solution. The 50 L Braumeister has two pumps with pickups right at the outside edge and the returns near the middle like this.





So I figured if we could connect onto the returns we might have something workable, a bit of bending and shaping came up with this, it's just a proof of concept but we have just over a meter of lift and it emptied out 25 litres of water in about 5 minutes.
View attachment 43343



I climbed up and put some silicone hose up and over the metal strip that holds the suspended ceiling in place to measure the lift and knocked some rubbish loose, that's what's floating around on the bottom. The second pick is after the 25 L have been pumped out, which was handy because I was curious as to whether the trub would get pulled down the pickups, looks like it won't. With the Braumeister and a good whirlpool the outside edge is reasonably free of break material.

Will give this bodgie prototype a workout next brew day and see if it's worth building the El-Schmicko version, got a hunch it might be.

MHB


----------



## Thirsty Boy

So i guess you'd plug the bodgey into the outlets, then get a whirlpool spinning and then pull wort from the edges. Not bad. The only thing i could see might be that all the paraphernalia inside the vessel might interfere with the whirlpool so much that it would become ineffective. Worth a test brew to find out though.

I'm not sure how much use this mod would be in the braumeister, but its kind of nice to know you could do it if you want to.


----------



## randyrob

Florian said:


> -5.5kg of crushed malt seems to be the absolute upper limit for the 20L Braumeister, anything above that and the pump is not able to circulate the mash anymore, as it gets too compact.



Hey Guys,

Does anyone know the limit of grain for the 50L model? is it a one man job to lift when chockers?

When using the smaller malt pipe in the 50L model, i'm guessing that when boiling the wort it only uses one element (if so is this set in the menu?), or is the boil controlled?

Cheers Rob.


----------



## matr

Roy has one at TWOC might pay to give him a call or even better go check it out..

They are quite the sexy bit of gear...


----------



## schooey

randyrob said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Does anyone know the limit of grain for the 50L model? is it a one man job to lift when chockers?
> 
> When using the smaller malt pipe in the 50L model, i'm guessing that when boiling the wort it only uses one element (if so is this set in the menu?), or is the boil controlled?
> 
> Cheers Rob.



G'day Rob,

The limit of grain for the 50L is around 12kg, but you can get more in if using a lot of wheat in the grist. You may get a bit more, but that's about ballpark. The malt pipe can be a little tricky to lift when it's saturated and fully loaded with grain, especially when you need to free one hand to place the staple in under the lugs to hold it and let it drain. You also have to be careful not to lift it too high, causing the lower filter plate off the centre bolt. Because if you do, and you lower it, you skew the plate and all your spent grain ends up in your wort... I speak from experience here... <_< I ended up with a little electric winch to control the lift and make it easier.

It makes no difference to the elements if you use the small malt pipe or not, they are still controlled by the same program. I'm glad I got the small pipe too; it makes it two machines in one really...


----------



## Florian

randyrob said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Does anyone know the limit of grain for the 50L model? is it a one man job to lift when chockers?
> 
> When using the smaller malt pipe in the 50L model, i'm guessing that when boiling the wort it only uses one element (if so is this set in the menu?), or is the boil controlled?
> 
> Cheers Rob.



Not sure about the 50l model, but I would assume it's proportional, so you would still end up with a 5-6% ABV max without using 'tricks' like double mashing (doing a mash and using the resulting wort as liquor for a second mash).

From memory there is only one element in the 50L, it's just longer. Either way, it's a controlled boil, regardless of number of elements. You actually set the temperature you want to boil at. It's recommended to set this to 102C so it keeps boiling and doesn't continuously cut out at 100C and restart when falling below. 


Florian

EDIT: Shooey beat me to it and speaks from experience.


----------



## randyrob

Schooey / Florian

Thank you very much guys - fantastic advice and good to know.

I could definately live with Reiterated Mashing for bigger beers, seeing as I only usually brew a RIS or Barley Wine a couple of times a year.

Does anyone have the diameter and height of the main vessel and also the malt pipe?

Cheers Rob.


----------



## Florian

height 700mm, diameter 500mm.

you can get most info in english from here: http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/shop_co...sche-daten.html

Or click your way through the site for more info, there is even the complete manual in several languages, which helps quite a bit to understand the full process: 
http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/shop_co...ontent/Download


----------



## MHB

Without double dipping the biggest beer I have ever knocked out came in at 1.114.
As you would expect the efficiency was woeful, the grain bill was 9 Kg of Weyermann Pilsner and 3 Kg of their Pale Wheat, so 12 Kg like Schooey said.
What you have to remember is that you dont need to put 50+ litres of water in at the start. Just enough to fill the malt pipe (less the volume of the grain) and enough left over to make a pumped circuit. Turns out that about 35 litres is the absolute minimum you can use. The mash regime was a quite complicated 7 step programme designed for highly attenuateive wort, it required a pause in the middle and a quick reprogram.
Not a brew I will be making often but a good learning brew all the same.
12 Kg in 35 L is just under 3:1 so the runnings (no first about it) would have a gravity of 20oP or 1.080, followed by a 2 hour boil with both elements going flat out got the 30% evaporation required.
Braumeister is really optimised to make standard beer, but if you think it through there is a lot you can do that I suspect the designers didnt have in mind.
MHB

Oh Florian/randyrob the 20L Braumeister has 1 element; the 50 L model has 2. The smaller one is the same as the one used in the 20 L model, if you scroll up you can see a picture I posted that shows both elements in the 50 L Braumeister. The Malt Pipe in the 20 L is 270mm Diameter X 365 Tall and the standard Malt Pipe for the 50 L model is 350mm Diameter X 480 Tall, the short malt pipe is 350mm Diameter X 270 Tall.
M


----------



## Adam Howard

MHB said:


> Without double dipping the biggest beer I have ever knocked out came in at 1.114.
> As you would expect the efficiency was woeful, the grain bill was 9 Kg of Weyermann Pilsner and 3 Kg of their Pale Wheat, so 12 Kg like Schooey said.
> What you have to remember is that you dont need to put 50+ litres of water in at the start. Just enough to fill the malt pipe (less the volume of the grain) and enough left over to make a pumped circuit. Turns out that about 35 litres is the absolute minimum you can use. The mash regime was a quite complicated 7 step programme designed for highly attenuateive wort, it required a pause in the middle and a quick reprogram.
> Not a brew I will be making often but a good learning brew all the same.
> 12 Kg in 35 L is just under 3:1 so the runnings (no first about it) would have a gravity of 20oP or 1.080, followed by a 2 hour boil with both elements going flat out got the 30% evaporation required.
> Braumeister is really optimised to make standard beer, but if you think it through there is a lot you can do that I suspect the designers didnt have in mind.
> MHB
> 
> Oh Florian/randyrob the 20L Braumeister has 1 element; the 50 L model has 2. The smaller one is the same as the one used in the 20 L model, if you scroll up you can see a picture I posted that shows both elements in the 50 L Braumeister. The Malt Pipe in the 20 L is 270mm Diameter X 365 Tall and the standard Malt Pipe for the 50 L model is 350mm Diameter X 480 Tall, the short malt pipe is 350mm Diameter X 270 Tall.
> M



I have one of these on my shopping list, skip straight past building up a time consuming AG setup and going straight for a neat and tidy unit that will make very good beer.

There's a few videos Braumeisters in operation that have shown people adding extract to the boil to increase gravity. Not really ALL grain but a pretty easy way to get up around 1.100. This is generally done with the 20L model because of how little grain you can get into them.


----------



## randyrob

MHB said:


> Without double dipping the biggest beer I have ever knocked out came in at 1.114.
> As you would expect the efficiency was woeful, the grain bill was 9 Kg of Weyermann Pilsner and 3 Kg of their Pale Wheat, so 12 Kg like Schooey said.
> What you have to remember is that you dont need to put 50+ litres of water in at the start. Just enough to fill the malt pipe (less the volume of the grain) and enough left over to make a pumped circuit. Turns out that about 35 litres is the absolute minimum you can use. The mash regime was a quite complicated 7 step programme designed for highly attenuateive wort, it required a pause in the middle and a quick reprogram.
> Not a brew I will be making often but a good learning brew all the same.
> 12 Kg in 35 L is just under 3:1 so the runnings (no first about it) would have a gravity of 20oP or 1.080, followed by a 2 hour boil with both elements going flat out got the 30% evaporation required.
> Braumeister is really optimised to make standard beer, but if you think it through there is a lot you can do that I suspect the designers didnt have in mind.
> MHB
> 
> Oh Florian/randyrob the 20L Braumeister has 1 element; the 50 L model has 2. The smaller one is the same as the one used in the 20 L model, if you scroll up you can see a picture I posted that shows both elements in the 50 L Braumeister. The Malt Pipe in the 20 L is 270mm Diameter X 365 Tall and the standard Malt Pipe for the 50 L model is 350mm Diameter X 480 Tall, the short malt pipe is 350mm Diameter X 270 Tall.
> M



Hey Mark,

Thanks for the well though out reply, exactly what i needed!

Your figures definately seem on the money, I did a test BIAB batch on the weekend in a 50L electric keggle, 35L of strike water, 13.5Kg of grain, 2 hour boil, ended up with 23L @ 1.107
(was actually aiming for 1.118) so shocking eff on such a big grain bill.

I like your though process on tweaking the Braumeister to suit even extreme brewing.

Cheers Rob.


----------



## proudscum

When hopping your wort do you hop directly to the kettle or do you have to use a hop bag?

Am in the process of making a second immersion chill to put in line with my other one so i can put it in a bucket with frozen milk/coke bottles to speed up the chill.not doing in to save water as i have 14,000 of tank water to run through the chillers and then back into the tanks.Just time and had to do something with the copper from my never finished HERMS system.Its a bitch resizing the coil that i already have.


----------



## schooey

I hop straight into the Braumeister which, at the boil stage, is essentially just an 80L electric kettle. The large style circular elements in the machine actually aid in keeping the whirlpool cone in situ when running off the wort.


----------



## proudscum

Was wondering the gap setting for a MM2 when using this Brewery?And the range of efficiency that you may get using these 2 pieces of equipment together.Its time to knock up a few recipes to put through the brewery to work out how it actually works.Was thinking of 0.9-1mm as a starting point for the mill .Your thought pls....and thanks


----------



## pmash

schooey said:


> I hop straight into the Braumeister which, at the boil stage, is essentially just an 80L electric kettle. The large style circular elements in the machine actually aid in keeping the whirlpool cone in situ when running off the wort.


Hey schooey, how much residual wort is left in your 50lt kettle? I've only done 3 brews in my 20 lt , 2 cooled and 1 no chill with 2 lts + of trub left. Next batch I will use my hop sock but I am keen to incorporate a hop/boil screen of sorts, with a dip tube ala blichman setup. 

Any thoughts greatly appreciated, 

cheers, pmash


----------



## Florian

proudscum said:


> Was wondering the gap setting for a MM2 when using this Brewery?And the range of efficiency that you may get using these 2 pieces of equipment together.Its time to knock up a few recipes to put through the brewery to work out how it actually works.Was thinking of 0.9-1mm as a starting point for the mill .Your thought pls....and thanks



Have just asked the same question and got two different answers. 0.8-0.9mm and 1.4mm. Both get efficiencies around 80%. Both crush the grain three times, starting at around 2mm, second time round a few mm less and third time to final crush size. Good idea to keep the husks as intact as possible.


----------



## schooey

I think you guys have to realise that your question is very much a 'how long is a piece of string' question... The answer will lie in what your grist consists of, what you are trying to achieve in your mash, your brewing process, your , milling regime, your mill and how it's powered, what speed it turns...... blah blah

It's going to be very much a suck it and see for your first couple of brews. The first brew I did with the new machine I had the grist similar to what it would have been for my old rig. I made copious amounts of stuff ups and still managed 75% Brewhaus Eff. With a few more brews under the belt and a finer grist I get low 80's consistently with good clarity.

It's part of the fun... 

edit: Oh and as far as the remains, I kinda crafted an add-on pick up tube but I won't go into too much detail. Apparently the peeps at Speidel don't like it so much..... h34r: But it allows me to get pretty much everything but less than a litre... I'm happy with that. Gimme twenty minutes and I'll post a pic


----------



## proudscum

schooey said:


> I think you guys have to realise that your question is very much a 'how long is a piece of string' question... The answer will lie in what your grist consists of, what you are trying to achieve in your mash, your brewing process, your , milling regime, your mill and how it's powered, what speed it turns...... blah blah
> 
> It's going to be very much a suck it and see for your first couple of brews. The first brew I did with the new machine I had the grist similar to what it would have been for my old rig. I made copious amounts of stuff ups and still managed 75% Brewhaus Eff. With a few more brews under the belt and a finer grist I get low 80's consistently with good clarity.
> 
> It's part of the fun...
> 
> edit: Oh and as far as the remains, I kinda crafted an add-on pick up tube but I won't go into too much detail. Apparently the peeps at Speidel don't like it so much..... h34r: But it allows me to get pretty much everything but less than a litre... I'm happy with that. Gimme twenty minutes and I'll post a pic



+1
its all ball park to get a starting point.i ended up ordering a hand crank for the mill as i didnt like the powerdrill option sounded not so good an idea to me.depending on how often i brew may go the Qldkev option for motorizing the mill.
be pretty basic grist to start ,no wheat just base and some spes grains.its been 5 years since doing a mash so need to get back on the pony so to speak.The s/s fermenter is hanging out for some wort love.


----------



## Florian

same here, hand cranking it will be for me. 
Looking forward to that pic, schooey.


----------



## schooey




----------



## haysie

schooey said:


> I think you guys have to realise that your question is very much a 'how long is a piece of string' question... The answer will lie in what your grist consists of, what you are trying to achieve in your mash, your brewing process, your , milling regime, your mill and how it's powered, what speed it turns...... blah blah
> 
> It's going to be very much a suck it and see for your first couple of brews. The first brew I did with the new machine I had the grist similar to what it would have been for my old rig. I made copious amounts of stuff ups and still managed 75% Brewhaus Eff. With a few more brews under the belt and a finer grist I get low 80's consistently with good clarity.
> 
> It's part of the fun...
> 
> edit: Oh and as far as the remains, I kinda crafted an add-on pick up tube but I won't go into too much detail. Apparently the peeps at Speidel don't like it so much..... h34r: But it allows me to get pretty much everything but less than a litre... I'm happy with that. Gimme twenty minutes and I'll post a pic




Is it good Shooey without all the waffle?, and shit photo too...... in post #something or other.


----------



## proudscum

At last the big box has arrived after a 5 month wait....thanks DHL.
Very excited and just want to get it together and have a play with it and test out the pump and programing etc...calm down laddy read the instruction first so you dont break the new toy.
Brew day Thursday,Friday and saturday i feel


----------



## Eater

Well done on your purchase, im sure it will bring you joy

Now, what was your address again?

*dons ninja garb*


----------



## proudscum

Having read the instructions twice have put it through a test run to make sure all is running smoothly and i understand the set up and processes.quite easy.so now just need to nail down a recipe and plug in the times and temps and will be away.All things being even Thursday is
d-day


----------



## haysie

proudscum said:


> Having read the instructions twice have put it through a test run to make sure all is running smoothly and i understand the set up and processes.quite easy.so now just need to nail down a recipe and plug in the times and temps and will be away.All things being even Thursday is
> d-day



How did it go? Interested in the can the cant and the want to brew opinions. Pro`s n Con`s etc etc


----------



## razz

haysie said:


> How did it go? Interested in the can the cant and the want to brew opinions. Pro`s n Con`s etc etc


Are you saving up for one Haysie?


----------



## haysie

razz said:


> Are you saving up for one Haysie?



I cant keep up with those ss conicals systems some have running Razz. Gotta look outside the square.


----------



## pmash

proudscum said:


> Having read the instructions twice have put it through a test run to make sure all is running smoothly and i understand the set up and processes.quite easy.so now just need to nail down a recipe and plug in the times and temps and will be away.All things being even Thursday is
> d-day


Hi mate, just wondering why you want to program in your own settings to do yr first brew? I was quite happy to sit back and marvel at just how cool these machines are.
I've just done #4 brew and must admit, I have been toying with tinkering with the settings already, but waiting to taste my first efforts. 
Either way I love mine and hope you enjoy your new toy as much!

Cheers


----------



## proudscum

Knocked out the first brew which was a steep learning curve.Gas fired vs electric...when i put my chiller in at the last 10 min point it killed the boil and dropped the temp stalling the timer so the hop calcs went out the window from 35ibu to 52 ibu.got 80% eff and final volume was spot on...run off is slow because i use whole hops but it was really bright.
Second batch changed the order of my 2 chillers and put the small one in the kettle and the large one in the ice bucket.....no probs this time.eff 83% but the base malt was higher in this batch,not bad seeing as its also a new mill with no milling experience(i do hand crank)the mill is set at 0.91mm and i run it through twice at the same setting.Be interesting to see Florians eff % with the spanky 3 roller mill.need to play with my water treatment as at the moment am using the 5.2 additive which lives up to it name.
So all went as planned for brew #2.
God this is so piss easy i wish i had had one of these when i went all grain 16 yrs ago.

so more than happy just need to work on recipes a bit more and will be back in business making great beers again


----------



## brianman

First brew with the Meister today. Stuffed up the Auto program from the start, at mash in for protein rest didn"t acknowledge, when trying to start mash went straight to heating up to 64deg., tried a few times to reset times, so probably a longer mash than intended. Anyway finally got finished, wow oversparge or what, 30.5lts into fermenter, was supposed to be 28lt batch with 3lt top from 25lts, that's what i used to do with my old system. That 30.5lts OG of 1041, so calculating for 28lts makes it around 88% efficiency. So got rid of a few lts & pitched yeast, will be down a few IBu's. Time for a few more program run throughs.
cheers 
Briby up


----------



## davewaldo

Hi Everyone, I thought I'd add this post to this thread as it is good to keep info in one place rather than starting new threads...

My wife is awesome and has suggested buying me a 50L Speidel Brewmaster for me as a graduation present (I've been busting my arse for the last 2 years at uni and running my business). I'm just wanting to post here first to make sure I'm making the right decision!  

I like the look of these for several reasons: It has a small foot print, it will add a lot more control and consistency to my brewing, it should save me time (cleaning time as well). All of these points should mean I can brew a lot more often, and hopefully brew better beer as I will be able to remove a lot of variables from my current system.

I already have a relatively good, simple, gravity 3 vessel system. But what annoys me is consistency and all the gear to store. Every brew day seems different and I end up having to adjust recipes on the fly. I realise the brewmaster won't be perfect, but it should be a lot more consistent. I believe this consistency will help me grow as a brewer as I can focus more on recipe and mash schedules rather than all of the various variables in my current system.

I don't really like brewing mega high gravity beers so this limitation with the Brewmaster is not a big deal to me (although the 50L version can do a smaller batch at high gravity if needed). The cost although really quite high compares to other turnkey solutions with similar automation, and as a gift (yes my wife rocks!) is less of a concern. 

So any reason why I shouldn't go down this path, or other systems I should look at?

Also the only question I have about the Brewmaster itself is: Everything looks top notch on it other than it looks to use brass piping under the unit for the pumps? I would have expected SS throughout??? Should this be a concern?

Thanks for any help and feedback 

Cheers,

David.


----------



## schooey

It seems to me that you've just about already talked yourself into it; you don't need my help...pretty much everything you mentioned is why I made the choice to buy one. The two pumps have two brass elbows each and that's pretty much it...they don't operate when the wort is boiling, so the tiny bit of wirt that is in contact with the very minimal amount if brass in the system is the least of my worries when it comes to poisoning my body with heavy metals.

IMHO ...dollar for dollar there is no better system for functionality and compactness and ease of cleaning.


----------



## winkle

schooey said:


> It seems to me that you've just about already talked yourself into it; you don't need my help...pretty much everything you mentioned is why I made the choice to buy one. The two pumps have two brass elbows each and that's pretty much it...they don't operate when the wort is boiling, so the tiny bit of wirt that is in contact with the very minimal amount if brass in the system is the least of my worries when it comes to poisoning my body with heavy metals.
> 
> IMHO ...dollar for dollar there is no better system for functionality and compactness and ease of cleaning.



Jasus Schooey, you've convinced me - now if it weren't for the impossibilty of getting it passed the Minister-for-saying-no, I'd get one. I wouldn't be worried about brass either.


----------



## davewaldo

Thanks schooey, you're right, I have basically talked myself into it  I had a 15amp powerpoint installed outside today (just incase).

I'm just chasing some reassurance I guess that the assumptions I've made about the brewmaster are correct. ie. very consistent and reliable, and that it will encourage my brewing and learning. 

Its good to hear you chose this unit for the same reasons, and it sounds like you're very happy with it. 

Also, other than the expected drop in efficiency, and the difficulty in producing high gravity worts; are there any other limitations you've found? 

Cheers,

David.


----------



## schooey

davewaldo said:


> Also, other than the expected drop in efficiency, and the difficulty in producing high gravity worts; are there any other limitations you've found?



Just to clarify here, I assume that you make this statement based on MHB's comment on the previous page about woeful efficiency on an 1.114 SG beer... This isn't just to be expected from the Braumeister; it's typical of any system. If you plotted SG vs Breehaus efficiency for the same volume of wort, you can expect the efficiency to drop as the SG rises, regardless of equipment.

The only other limitation I've found with it is I'm severely limited on time to spend with it atm...


----------



## davewaldo

Thanks mate, from what I have read, efficiency is slightly lower due to the fact it is a no sparge system / full volume mash. Many people say efficiency of 70-80% is normal, whereas many 3 vessel systems produce closer to 90%. Is this not the case in your experience?

Some users do a small sparge after the malt pipe is raised and this can increase efficiency.....


----------



## MHB

Efficiency is such vague expression, sometimes I think everyone has their own interpretation of what it means. I like to refer to BHY (Brew House Yield) and routinely get 80% BHY, that's 80% of the test value into the fermenter, which is pretty dam good as it includes all the losses throughout the whole system.

Yes I do a flood sparge when I lift the malt pipe; went and got a little plastic urn from K-Mart, it says it holds eight litres but if you aren't boiling you can put in ten, set the thermostat to about 3/5 and it holds very close to 80oC, easy as.

Next time there is a super high gravity in the works am planning on lifting the malt pipe and putting it into a preheated pot of water, sort of like a Party-Gyle, will let you know how it goes.

MHB


----------



## schooey

I guess everyones mileage may vary...My old rig used to average around 80-85% eff with a 3V HERMS rig and I still get about the same with not so much a sparge, but more a wash of the spent grains in the malt pipe with 5 or so litres of 80C water.

I figure if I'm getting over 80% and my beer is good, then I'm cheering. I don't see the point in chasing efficiency unless I was brewing 300 hL batches for profit, especially if it comes at the cost if quality.


----------



## davewaldo

Thanks guys, so the efficiency and the brass isn't really a concern after all. 

Now to finish this damn uni course so I can start brewing again! :super: 

Thanks for the feedback.

Dave.


----------



## sinkas

So Where is the cheapest place to buy a 50L unit?
local or offshore?

MHB what was the final volume on your "Big Brew"
and can you doughin then walk away until its ready to boil?


----------



## yambor44

yambor44 said:


> I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I have been brewing for three years now and all grain about 2 1/2 of that. I have "progressed" to a Brutus 10 type single tier system. I use natural gas and jet burners. I recently purchased a panel box and other components (Pids, SSR's, heat sinks, sensors, RIMS tube etc) and added a 50 amp GFCI breaker and outlet to make the switch to electric. I have been looking at these Braumeister units for a while and wish I would have found this thread before making the aforementioned purchases!!
> 
> I still may look into selling my existing unit and going with the 20l version.
> 
> Thanks for all of the good information.




Well, I decided to sell my existing unit and buy the 50L version. Ordered it from a Florida dealer one week ago on the 21st. Two weeks to go, I'm so excited!!


----------



## mckenry

schooey said:


> ...My old rig used to average around 80-85% eff with a 3V HERMS



schooey - you gotta stop calling it your old rig  its the rig that went to a better home :lol: 
By the way - she's had a paint job, the plug is wired up, and still punching out 80-85%
cheers mckenry


----------



## unrealeous

yambor44 said:


> Ordered it from a Florida dealer one week ago on the 21st. Two weeks to go, I'm so excited!!


Am I reading this right - it's cheaper to buy a german made unit from the US than either here or Germany? Go figure.


----------



## schooey

mckenry said:


> schooey - you gotta stop calling it your old rig  its the rig that went to a better home :lol:
> By the way - she's had a paint job, the plug is wired up, and still punching out 80-85%
> cheers mckenry




:lol:

pics or it didn't happen!

Glad its serving you well...


----------



## davewaldo

I bit the bullet and just put in an order with MHB!  

After speaking to Mark on the phone, the advantages of buying in Australia were clear, and having Mark available if I encounter problems will be priceless. 

In the end, the difference in price just didn't seem worth the risk and lack of support if I bought overseas. Hopefully this should be the only brew setup I will ever need.

I'll post pics when it arrives and I'm allowed to play with it after my graduation in June.


----------



## proudscum

yambor44 said:


> Well, I decided to sell my existing unit and buy the 50L version. Ordered it from a Florida dealer one week ago on the 21st. Two weeks to go, I'm so excited!!




From what i have read you order in the USA and they order and sent from Germany.....some how i think you may be a little wishful with a 3 wk turn around as it will still have to go through customs and you get notified by mail then you pay customs then they release it to Aust post.
But then you may be very lucky.


----------



## goomboogo

proudscum said:


> From what i have read you order in the USA and they order and sent from Germany.....some how i think you may be a little wishful with a 3 wk turn around as it will still have to go through customs and you get notified by mail then you pay customs then they release it to Aust post.
> But then you may be very lucky.



I was under the impression yambor44 was from the U.S. So I don't think he/she will have to worry about Australia Post.


----------



## Florian

goomboogo said:


> I was under the impression yambor44 was from the U.S. So I don't think he/she will have to worry about Australia Post.



Judging on the morebeer buckets in the background and that Blichmann system you should be right. Would've been weird to get it cheaper in Florida than Germany.


----------



## davewaldo

Speidel won't ship from Germany, and it is indeed cheapest to buy it from the US, but whether the saving is worth it is up to the individual. For me I have decided the saving is not worth the hassle or lack of support.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

davewaldo said:


> For me I have decided the saving is not worth the hassle or lack of support.




Mark is a big ugly dude and I have total faith in him and his after purchase service. Great decision.

(no affiliation to MHB .. just reckon support a lhbs and reap the rewards)


----------



## davewaldo

Fatgodzilla said:


> Mark is a big ugly dude and I have total faith in him and his after purchase service. Great decision.
> 
> (no affiliation to MHB .. just reckon support a lhbs and reap the rewards)



Agreed, I'll be using my Braumeister for many years to come, so the bit of extra cash now should be worth the years of service/helpful hints to come (Mark you lucky boy). He's also a Braumeister brewer so he has first hand experience getting the most out of these machines. All of this helped me make the choice.

But one of the main worries was "what if I get a dud?". Maybe a small risk, but shipping back to the US would obliterate any savings in one go. And as Mark said in an earlier post, he's had to replace one computer out of 6 sold. Thats a 17% chance going by those stats. So duds aren't unheard of even from a good German company 

Dave


----------



## Fatgodzilla

davewaldo said:


> Agreed, I'll be using my Braumeister for many years to come, so the bit of extra cash now should be worth the years of service/helpful hints to come (Mark you lucky boy). He's also a Braumeister brewer so he has first hand experience getting the most out of these machines. All of this helped me make the choice.
> 
> But one of the main worries was "what if I get a dud?". Maybe a small risk, but shipping back to the US would obliterate any savings in one go. And as Mark said in an earlier post, he's had to replace one computer out of 6 sold. Thats a 17% chance going by those stats. So duds aren't unheard of even from a good German company
> 
> Dave




The Braumeisters we saw at ANHC 2010 were beautiful things and if readily affordable, lots would buy them. I'd have one. Hope all goes well and you make great beers for years.


----------



## davewaldo

Fatgodzilla said:


> The Braumeisters we saw at ANHC 2010 were beautiful things and if readily affordable, lots would buy them. I'd have one. Hope all goes well and you make great beers for years.



Thanks Fatgodzilla, I'm yet to see one in person, so I'm taking everyone's word for it that they are nice bit of kit, and more than a glorified urn  Can't wait to get my hands on one!


----------



## yambor44

Sorry for the confusion all! I am from the USA and in Florida. Thursten is our contact for the East coast. I would love to have purchased from MHB but afraid it would be a long journey for a service call if ever needed!  I will try and fix my profile to show my whereabouts.


----------



## Sydneybrewer

man i want one of these little beauties so bad, now do i risk divorce to purchase one... i think so.


----------



## unrealeous

They certainly look nice.

Question - If you have the 50 liter version - what is the smallest batch you can do with one of these?


----------



## sinkas

I think you cna do under 20 L, using the small malt pipe


----------



## davewaldo

I'm also interested in how small the smallest amount of wort is possible with the 50L with standard malt pipe. 

I believe the short malt pipe does 20L batches, but I'm curious to know how little liquid is required to create a sufficient flow for mashing. Perhaps 30L batches might be possible?


----------



## proudscum

Knocked out batch #3 this afternoon and went and had a job interview while it was happy mashing away.Cleaned and bleached fermenting fridge and put temp probe up through the drain hole as well as cut some shelves for the 2 fermenters to sit on in the said fridge while boil was taking place.About to mill grain for batch #4 which will take place tomorrow and check carbonation in the kegged first 2 batches for the brewery Resurrection party i am having on Saturday.Have decided to rename my brewery " Resurrection Brewery" because this little brewery has really got me amped about brewing after to long away from full mashing.


----------



## yambor44

davewaldo said:


> I'm also interested in how small the smallest amount of wort is possible with the 50L with standard malt pipe.
> 
> I believe the short malt pipe does 20L batches, but I'm curious to know how little liquid is required to create a sufficient flow for mashing. Perhaps 30L batches might be possible?




I asked the same question on another forum from a user and this was his response:

You can make a 5gal batch but the malpipe has to have at least 8-9kg of malt in it so the beer will be strong. You could buy a smaller maltpipe for the 50l. I did but have only used it once..






http://www.morebeer4u.com/11.html


----------



## stephenkentucky

I ordered my 5o lt Braumeister today, will do a test brew at MHB next Tuesday all being well, the Brau M will be here in a couple of weeks, now I just have to hussle along the excise licence for the brewery/restaurant. Boy am I excited.


----------



## davewaldo

Sounds great, keep us posted with your progress!


----------



## stephenkentucky

davewaldo said:


> Sounds great, keep us posted with your progress!


Will do Dave, Geez I hardly slept last night, spent all night working out what brews Im gonna put through this puppy!


----------



## yambor44

Does anyone use pellet hops with this system?


----------



## stephenkentucky

Had a great day at MHB on tuesday, Mark had the Braumester warmed up and ready, the process was without doubt the simplest least stressful brew I have ever done, I chose a simple Hefe for the demo brew the quality of the braumeister was evident at all times, the krauts always did build a better tank, the huge heating coil raising temps at amazing rates and by design even starting a thermal whirlpool effect. all in all while no system is going to be perfect for every possible brew, this puppy covers enough bases competently to be the answer to my needs. As for Mark and his shambolic emporium of brewing pleasure, you would not find a nicer man, or a more magical shop, there is brewing paraphanalia every where, and I mean everywhere, but Mark in his affable way knows where every bit of brewing equipment is to be found. What really struck me was how Mark was so generous with his wealth of knowledge, I am more accustomed to dealing with winemakers (if you change a few letters in winemaker you get wanker) who are as mean as cats bums when it comes to sharing knowledge, Mark was the exact opposite, he freely shared his knowledge in a way that reassured me and de mystified some long held misconceptions,
I was pleased to confirm an order for my 50l Braumeister at the end of the day. I have no affiliation with MHB bar that I am a happy customer, but would have no hesitation in recommending them, My twelve hour round trip was rewarded with a great experience.


----------



## stephenkentucky

yambor44 said:


> Does anyone use pellet hops with this system?



Yes Yambor just use pellets as you would do normally, just add to the boil.


----------



## unterberg

I actually tried some of the leftover wort from your Hefe. Very nice ;-)
One day I might call a Braumeister my own as well... those will be happy days, hehe. 
Let us know how you go with the restaurant in-house brewery!


----------



## stephenkentucky

Unterberg said:


> I actually tried some of the leftover wort from your Hefe. Very nice ;-)
> One day I might call a Braumeister my own as well... those will be happy days, hehe.
> Let us know how you go with the restaurant in-house brewery!



Ill keep you posted Untgerberg, Im glad you liked the wort I am propagating yeast at the moment to pitch later today.


----------



## HoppingMad

$3k? That's a very expensive Urn!

If you're forking out that dough, why not aim higher  ? When for twice that you can grab one of these babies:
SabcoBrewMagic for just a few dollars more

Sam Caligione (of Dogfish Head fame) pumped out many of his earlier brews on this one.

Hopper.


----------



## schooey

HoppingMad said:


> $3k? That's a very expensive Urn!
> 
> If you're forking out that dough, why not aim higher  ? When for twice that you can grab one of these babies:
> SabcoBrewMagic for just a few dollars more
> 
> Sam Caligione (of Dogfish Head fame) pumped out many of his earlier brews on this one.
> 
> Hopper.



Why pay double for something that will only knock out the same batch size but takes up twice the space? Sorry, but I don't see it as aiming higher at all...


----------



## davewaldo

Agreed, I would prefer a Braumeister over the Sabco any day. Each to their own I guess.


----------



## proudscum

schooey said:


> Why pay double for something that will only knock out the same batch size but takes up twice the space? Sorry, but I don't see it as aiming higher at all...




+1.My old 2 tier is taking up 1/2 my garden shed...just cant quite let it go....yet.

The HLT would be good for someone to use for BIAB as its a 40lt S/S electric wash copper.

Maybe soon will just have to let go and put it all up for sale.


----------



## Rurik

schooey said:


> Why pay double for something that will only knock out the same batch size but takes up twice the space? Sorry, but I don't see it as aiming higher at all...



I think it would knock out less, the brewmister knocks out a true 50l if you use it properly. I think with a cut down keg you would be lucky to get 40l at knock out. 

Rurik


----------



## stephenkentucky

Rurik said:


> I think it would knock out less, the brewmister knocks out a true 50l if you use it properly. I think with a cut down keg you would be lucky to get 40l at knock out.
> 
> Rurik


Agreed Rurik


----------



## stux

And surely it'd use up 3x the space?

3x the space, twice the price, for 20% less beer...

Yeah, awesome.

But it does look more like your standard HERMS/RIMS Brew Porn.

Frankly I prefer the german example


----------



## Sammus

+1


----------



## stephenkentucky

:icon_offtopic: 
I know this is off topic so don't flame me,( Ive been BBQ'd before)but am very pleased with this artwork for our new real ale bar and wanted to show it to ya.
feedback positive or negative always welcome, as we are just building the bar at the mo. 
the bar is called Pudgy McDucks real ale bar.
The fictional character is named Pugsworth Disreali McDuck or Pudgy to his friends.

please no flames Ill only be naughty this once, honest injun! 
I am hoping to get a mate of mine who has a 3d computerised router to carve him our of a lump of redwood for our signage


----------



## SJW

If I knew back when I started AGing what I know now I would get a Braumeister, but I had fun building my rig.


----------



## winkle

SJW said:


> If I knew back when I started AGing what I know now I would get a Braumeister, but I had fun building my rig.



I still want one but... (looks whistfully at the distant future).


----------



## beerbrewer76543

HoppingMad said:


> $3k? That's a very expensive Urn!
> 
> If you're forking out that dough, why not aim higher  ? When for twice that you can grab one of these babies:
> SabcoBrewMagic for just a few dollars more
> 
> Sam Caligione (of Dogfish Head fame) pumped out many of his earlier brews on this one.
> 
> Hopper.



$6000 for a system using old kegs as brewing vessels? Tell him he's dreaming!


----------



## HoppingMad

Haha. Yeah, to be honest I think neither are the way to go (Braumeister or Sabco). Just thought I'd put it out there. 
I think with shipping the weight on the Sabco would put you well and truly out of pocket unless you know someone with a shipping container doing regular rounds.

$3k for a Braumeister or $6k for a Sabco you can buy a lot of stainless steel and welding expertise and with that you can pretty much customise your own rig to suit your space. Plus I agree that you'd want something that can brew more than just 50L.

My vote would be save your hard earned and make something from scratch that works for you. But I can understand some folks want something that off the shelf 'just works' and don't have that sort of time to faff around. Sounds like the appeal for many with the Braumeister is the space saving factor too, which is interesting.

Good luck to those that want the 'urn', and each to their own, but I'm passing. My gravity fed 3 tier does me nicely for now. 

Hopper.


----------



## davewaldo

HoppingMad said:


> Haha. Yeah, to be honest I think neither are the way to go (Braumeister or Sabco). Just thought I'd put it out there.
> I think with shipping the weight on the Sabco would put you well and truly out of pocket unless you know someone with a shipping container doing regular rounds.
> 
> $3k for a Braumeister or $6k for a Sabco you can buy a lot of stainless steel and welding expertise and with that you can pretty much customise your own rig to suit your space. Plus I agree that you'd want something that can brew more than just 50L.
> 
> My vote would be save your hard earned and make something from scratch that works for you. But I can understand some folks want something that off the shelf 'just works' and don't have that sort of time to faff around. Sounds like the appeal for many with the Braumeister is the space saving factor too, which is interesting.
> 
> Good luck to those that want the 'urn', and each to their own, but I'm passing. My gravity fed 3 tier does me nicely for now.
> 
> Hopper.




If I wanted to design and make a system from scratch I would end up designing a braumeister-type system. It is honestly the best solution for me. And why would I waste heaps of time and money making something that may not perform as well and certainly wont be as well made. The 'urn' argument seems to be put forward by people that want to see lots of separate vessels of s/s for their money, even though this would introduce some downsides such as much more space, more cleaning, more pipes and valves to harbour nasties and more losses. And what do you gain, some more pots to look at to feel good and see where your money was spent? Looking at the sabco that includes very little engineering (all prefab parts bolted together and old kegs), the custom built braumeister seems like a bargain. 

But we all want different things from brewing, and gear is half the fun I reckon. So whatever floats your boat. Some will like loads of valves and pipes and things to play with, others more simple setups.


----------



## schooey

HoppingMad said:


> My vote would be save your hard earned and make something from scratch that works for you.



Been there; did that....


----------



## Ross

I love the way people take cheap shots at other products to somehow justify their choice is the best, even without knowing the product they are knocking.
We all have diffenrent perspectives on what we want from our brewing rigs & whether it's a Crown Urn doing brew in a bag, a Braumeister, Sabco or whatever, if the rig is right for you, that's all that matters.
For the record, the Sabco (of which I own one), does full 50L batches & does not use any second hand parts. I love my rig & wouldn't change it in my present circumstances for any of the previously mentioned rigs, but I also see the benefits that the Braumeister has especially where you want a small footprint for your rig.

Research, then buy/build the unit that meets your requirements & budget.

Cheers Ross


----------



## bum

Ross said:


> I love the way people take cheap shots at other products to somehow justify their choice is the best, even without knowing the product they are knocking.
> We all have diffenrent perspectives on what we want from our brewing rigs & whether it's a Crown Urn doing brew in a bag, a Braumeister, Sabco or whatever, if the rig is right for you, that's all that matters.


So people shouldn't point out which is right for them (like you immediately go on to do yourself)?

Good one. Very reasonable. No knee-jerk reactions here.


----------



## stephenkentucky

Hey whats the point of arguing about the various merits of one brewery over another, each is different as they are designed to answer the same problem i.e. how to get the very best result from a soup of grain, water and hops. every engineer will have a different take on that quest, and lets face it those who succeed should be admired be they Sabco, Braumeister or your good self who by cutting down a discarded keg created the brewery of your dreams, there are many brewers who still do partials using a small stock pot on the stove, who dream of owning any of the above, and would see the merits of all three. As we progress through the brewing ranks we loose sight of our goal, it's about the brew, anything else is just a tool to get us there.


----------



## Ross

bum said:


> So people shouldn't point out which is right for them (like you immediately go on to do yourself)?
> 
> Good one. Very reasonable. No knee-jerk reactions here.




Think you totally missed the point :unsure: .... I didn't knock anyone for pointing out what's right for them, if you read my post properly you'll see that.
What I objected to were people making false claims against products they obviously have little or no knowledge of, whether it be aimed at a Crown Urn, Braumeister or Sabco.

Cheers Ross


----------



## jtsteel

Yup! It's about the beer! 
Started with K & k progressed to partials and now have a 3V, gravity AG setup. About to add a pump and loose a level or two but have my eyes set firmly on the big German Urn ( one day! ).


----------



## brett mccluskey

an interesting German alternative http://www.brumas.de/ebildstrecke.html still pricey though,the UK price for a 20l version is about $2800


----------



## bum

Ross said:


> What I objected to were people making false claims against products they obviously have little or no knowledge of, whether it be aimed at a Crown Urn, Braumeister or Sabco.


Or secondhand parts? You know, the type that clearly make inferior beer or there'd be no point mentioning them? Do you see my point now? You disparaged an entire category of brew gear (and therefore brewer) in your suggestion that people shouldn't make broadsiding statements about things they "don't understand".


----------



## winkle

bum said:


> Or secondhand parts? You know, the type that clearly make inferior beer or there'd be no point mentioning them? Do you see my point now? You disparaged an entire category of brew gear (and therefore brewer) in your suggestion that people shouldn't make broadsiding statements about things they "don't understand".



I think he was referring to the kegs on the Sabco Bum.



> $6000 for a system using old kegs as brewing vessels? Tell him he's dreaming!



Edit: added the quote


----------



## MHB

toper1 said:


> an interesting German alternative http://www.brumas.de/ebildstrecke.html still pricey though,the UK price for a 20l version is about $2800



I had a long hard look at the Brew Owl when I was choosing a system for myself (+ more beer, Sabco and others), it looks like they have prettied it up, it was fairly basic at the time. What put me off was its programming, a little too inflexible for my tastes; very Teutonic in its operation - we will make beer like this - alles klar. Its footprint was twice that of the Braumeister, (they might have improved the operational side too, I havent looked) the self cleaning feature was tempting.
As far as I can tell they offer 1, (up to?) 40L version that costs 2280EU or about $3250, after freight, duty and GST you would get very little change out of $4200
Braumeister is one of many very good systems available; it suited my needs but wont be the perfect fit for everybody. A high-end semi/automated system is a large investment, I strongly urge anyone considering one to think long and hard. Analyse what you want the system to do, where you are going to put it and all that, if at all possible do a brew on one if you can when you brew on the right system you will know its the one for you.
With the strong $AU and we have been working on a better freight deal, it looks like we will be able to shave $500 off Braumeister, got a test delivery in the works, if all goes to plan $2500 for a 20L and $3500 for a 50L Braumeister is going to be very tempting for a lot of people.
MHB


----------



## davewaldo

With the added value when buying from you (better engineered filters and an included brew etc) and these new prices, you should blow the competition out of the water 

Thanks for passing on the savings


----------



## razz

+1 for davewaldo's comment, well done MHB..................I'm one step closer.


----------



## bum

winkle said:


> I think he was referring to the kegs on the Sabco Bum.


Ah, I had not read the particular post you quoted, only Ross' generalisation based on it. Thanks for pointing that out. 

And my sincere apologies to you, Ross. I hope you understand where my mistake was made now.


----------



## stephenkentucky

I am wildly tired after about 12 hours on the road, but managed to pick up the Braumeister today, I must say i am too tired to do much else except stare at the stainless steel goodness of it. Thanks to Mark at MHB for making me welcome again and helping me get the new brewery into my vastly overstuffed car. I am so looking forward to brewing but unfortunately it looks like I will be picking Pinot grapes on monday so we will be head down ass up making wine for a while ...BUGGER.... oh well it could be worse , for a while I thought we might not even get any grape after all the rain this year. I must say that bed is looking very enticing after a fairly hectic night in the restaurant....so ...night night possums.


----------



## stephenkentucky

Rain today so grape Baume is dropping so will brew Monday, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale here I come, 50 litres of malty, hoppy, happiness.


----------



## davewaldo

Sounds Great Stephen! Let see some photos! 

...so if yours is here..... does that mean mine is too Mark????


----------



## stephenkentucky

davewaldo said:


> Sounds Great Stephen! Let see some photos!
> 
> ...so if yours is here..... does that mean mine is too Mark????


Ill take some during Mondays brew session, and post Monday arvo.


----------



## davewaldo

stephenkentucky said:


> Ill take some during Mondays brew session, and post Monday arvo.



Awesome, can you take one standing next to it? I'm keen to see how big they actually are!


----------



## MHB

davewaldo said:


> Sounds Great Stephen! Let see some photos!
> 
> ...so if yours is here..... does that mean mine is too Mark????




Yep,
You will be getting an email off me soon.
Mark


----------



## davewaldo

MHB said:


> Yep,
> You will be getting an email off me soon.
> Mark




Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## rowanb

Over at homebrewtalk, 800 brews and going strong link


----------



## StraussyStrauss

MHB said:


> With the strong $AU and we have been working on a better freight deal, it looks like we will be able to shave $500 off Braumeister, got a test delivery in the works, if all goes to plan $2500 for a 20L and $3500 for a 50L Braumeister is going to be very tempting for a lot of people.
> MHB



The price is right! LINK


----------



## MHB

Both G&G and I have reduced the price to $2500 for the 20 L and $3500 for the 50 L Braumeister. The new pricing came about because the dollar is so strong and as a result of lot of work with Speidel (who make Braumeister) on a better box and freight deal.
The old 50L Braumeister box was HUGE, sure it protected the Braumeister well but it counted as a ton of airfreight, they got a packaging engineer in to rework the box and have managed to reduce the size considerably.

New deliveries are coming through with Stainless Steel filters replacing the fabric ones, its going to be interesting to see if they are any better, Ive just replaced mine after about 100 brews and will try the new stainless ones when a shipment of spare parts thats on the way arrives.
Back when I got mine, it cost me $5K, not complaining at the time the AUD was in the toilet and freight on a one off delivery was murderous, I really have got my moneys worth out of mine, but there never has been a better time to invest in a Braumeister.
MHB


----------



## stephenkentucky

Just finished my 10th brew on the Braumeister, I can say without reservation that it is the best brewery I have ever experienced, I love that it allows me to be working while I brew, and the results are as good as it gets. I know people say it is expensive but it certainly pays for itself in my instance in time saved, quality of output and happy customers. It is not for everyone but if you can afford it and justify the cost, it does deliver a really elegant solution to all grain brewing , with few downsides. I am not affiliated with the retailers in any way, I am just a happy customer. If you have questions ask and I will do my best to answer.


----------



## herbo

Any of you guys know what the 200 litre model is worth?

Just curious.


----------



## Sunshine_Brewer

herbo said:


> Any of you guys know what the 200 litre model is worth?
> 
> Just curious.



I think Morebeer in the US have them on their website, from memory $11000 USD :icon_cheers:


----------



## stephenkentucky

Sunshine_Brewer said:


> I think Morebeer in the US have them on their website, from memory $11000 USD :icon_cheers:


I've heard rumours of between $22,000 and $24,000, that was a while ago, so dollar may have affected the price. If our brew on Premise goes well, I would definitely consider a 200 litre as an option, even now we are doing 3 brew days a week once it gets to 5 I will start to do double batches doing the boil in the keggle, if it goes beyond this the 200 litre would be an answer.


----------



## Florian

Florian said:


> ... but also a 200L one. Makes it really easy for restaurants to brew their own house beer. and it's 'only' 8500 Euros plus tax and fright for the big one...


----------



## chadjaja

Anyone notice one of the vids on the main product site there is a youtube clip of a guy that owns one but the cracking of the grain is done with a cheap corona mill?


----------



## Florian

chadjaja said:


> Anyone notice one of the vids on the main product site there is a youtube clip of a guy that owns one but the cracking of the grain is done with a cheap corona mill?



You can order them directly with your Braumeister from Speidel...

http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/product..._Malt-mill.html


----------



## chadjaja

Ahhh that explains it. ......but still...and this from a small mill marga owner...


----------



## Florian

chadjaja said:


> .....but still...



I agree. Something like the MillMaster would suit much better. That's why I have combined the two in my brewery, they make a perfect match


----------



## stephenkentucky

The big problem with ordering the 200 liter model is that it has not been approved for use in Australia, this means that the first importer is responsible for proving that the unit is worthy of Australian standards electrical and safety approval, as this often involves a complete pull down, I would not want to be the first importer.


----------



## herbo

stephenkentucky said:


> The big problem with ordering the 200 liter model is that it has not been approved for use in Australia, this means that the first importer is responsible for proving that the unit is worthy of Australian standards electrical and safety approval, as this often involves a complete pull down, I would not want to be the first importer.



Well someone should import one. Because of its small footprint (only one vessel) it seems to the ideal set-up for a brew pub.


----------



## proudscum

Maybe a really need to convince Alex T from LC to get one as he talked about it after he saw mine(20lt model).

Love the fact that my brewery is being cleaned in my laundry sink as we speak,my old brewery wouldnt have even fitted in the laundry...just taking up half my tool/garden shed.


----------



## suchidog

Good 5 part vid on the Braumeister


----------



## stux

Those crazy guys at Spiedel



Water powered 20t juice press


----------



## Brewman_

stephenkentucky said:


> The big problem with ordering the 200 liter model is that it has not been approved for use in Australia, this means that the first importer is responsible for proving that the unit is worthy of Australian standards electrical and safety approval, as this often involves a complete pull down, I would not want to be the first importer.



Not sure why you are concerned?


First point, It's made in Germany, not China. I would expect some quality. I have seen these units as well and they are good.... 


Do not get me started on Australian Standards and what they allow to enter this country.

Second pont, The 50L & 20L version is approved, I asssume, as they are being sold here.. And so have these had the BIG PULL DOWN??, I gues they must have?
So the 200L needs a full pull down. I kinow red tape and stuff, but is it really that big of a deal? Mybe it is some well set aside time in your project plan, right?

Fear


----------



## tipsy

suchidog said:


> Good 5 part vid on the Braumeister




Good vid. Interesting how the wort trickles down the side of the malt pipe. How would this affect HSA. or is that just a myth?


----------



## davewaldo

tipsy said:


> Good vid. Interesting how the wort trickles down the side of the malt pipe. How would this affect HSA. or is that just a myth?


I wondered the same thing too, but it must be a myth because many are making award winning beer with this system (not to mention all the other experiments disproving it).


----------



## Thirsty Boy

fear_n_loath said:


> Not sure why you are concerned?
> 
> 
> First point, It's made in Germany, not China. I would expect some quality. I have seen these units as well and they are good....
> 
> 
> Do not get me started on Australian Standards and what they allow to enter this country.
> 
> Second pont, The 50L & 20L version is approved, I asssume, as they are being sold here.. And so have these had the BIG PULL DOWN??, I gues they must have?
> So the 200L needs a full pull down. I kinow red tape and stuff, but is it really that big of a deal? Mybe it is some well set aside time in your project plan, right?
> 
> Fear



They are pulled down, and tested to destruction. The unit would be unfit for sale post the operation. So the potential importers are reluctant to spend the dough on a unit that effectively needs to be thrown away afterwards, unless they know they are going to sell enough of the things to recover the cost.


----------



## Stormahead

Does G&G/MHB charge extra for freight to the major capitals?

Can't seeem to get any info on the websites...


----------



## outbreak

fear_n_loath said:


> Not sure why you are concerned?
> 
> 
> First point, It's made in Germany, not China. I would expect some quality. I have seen these units as well and they are good....
> 
> 
> Do not get me started on Australian Standards and what they allow to enter this country.
> 
> Second pont, The 50L & 20L version is approved, I asssume, as they are being sold here.. And so have these had the BIG PULL DOWN??, I gues they must have?
> So the 200L needs a full pull down. I kinow red tape and stuff, but is it really that big of a deal? Mybe it is some well set aside time in your project plan, right?
> 
> Fear



G&G advertise the 200l for sale on their website....


----------



## Brewman_

Thirsty Boy said:


> They are pulled down, and tested to destruction. The unit would be unfit for sale post the operation. So the potential importers are reluctant to spend the dough on a unit that effectively needs to be thrown away afterwards, unless they know they are going to sell enough of the things to recover the cost.




Hi TB
What are they tested against? Safety?, Standards, Making good beer?



If it's safety / standards why should they destroy it, or is it that they do not meet European and Australian Standards?

Fear


----------



## bullsneck

On the G&G website they mention this...
Quote - "Thefirst 200 litre Braumeister systems, with one destined for Grain and Grape small batch Wort Kitsare on the water and should be here in late July. We can't wait!"
Perhaps those wanting a 200L should get down to G&G and check it out.


----------



## drtomc

I had a bit of a chat with John when I was last at G&G a few weeks ago. I was asking some questions about their fresh wort kits, which are produced for them by Mountain Goat. John was saying that once they get the 200L equipment they're thinking they might do small run "special" fresh wort kits.

This came up because I was asking about their high gravity (no 4) wort kit, which is aimed kind of in the middle of a number of high gravity styles, and therefore, by John's own admission, kind of misses all of them. Too many IBUs for most of the high gravity Belgian styles, and not enough IBUs for RIS, etc.

T.


----------



## Brewman_

Thirsty Boy said:


> They are pulled down, and tested to destruction. The unit would be unfit for sale post the operation. So the potential importers are reluctant to spend the dough on a unit that effectively needs to be thrown away afterwards, unless they know they are going to sell enough of the things to recover the cost.




TB,

Sorry man, I just don't get why? I am not saying that what you say is incorrect, I just don't get why and for what purpose, and for what Authority? Who does the testing, and who is it reported to?

There are many businesses that import special equipment to make all sorts of things, ice cream, sausages, cars, cables, plastics, metals & beer. Is each picece of equipment tested to destruction, where is the line drawn? And do they need to be tested at the unit level or at the process level? Or is it product based, or market based? Or is it different if you are just using the equipment for personal purposes?


In my businesss, I used to do this sort to testing whenever I changeed a significant process or equipment change. But I was bound in product and process by Australian and Multiple International Standards. In Raw materials came into too. 

So Is this the same? I just don't see how?


Sorry to harp on the question, but can you or someone else explain why?



Fear.


----------



## Thirsty Boy

I dont know why - sorry. I dont even know for sure that this is the case, its just what i understood to be the case after having the conversation with John at G&G. The upshot of the conversation being basically that post the required testing, the unit would be knackered and need to be completely re-built/re-wired to be used at all, and probably not something you could reasonably expect to sell to a customer afterwards.

My understanding is as drtomc said, that john is considering getting a unit for the shop, and that he would probably use the initial unit as the one that gets the pull apart treatment, then have it re-built for use in the shop. Thus not having to completely waste the cash needed to be able to sell future versions... But this is just me recollecting a conversation with john... So its not like I insist that i am right or that its any sort of an indication of the what G&G actually plans to do with these units.


----------



## kieran

Thirsty Boy said:


> I dont know why - sorry. I dont even know for sure that this is the case, its just what i understood to be the case after having the conversation with John at G&G. The upshot of the conversation being basically that post the required testing, the unit would be knackered and need to be completely re-built/re-wired to be used at all, and probably not something you could reasonably expect to sell to a customer afterwards.
> 
> My understanding is as drtomc said, that john is considering getting a unit for the shop, and that he would probably use the initial unit as the one that gets the pull apart treatment, then have it re-built for use in the shop. Thus not having to completely waste the cash needed to be able to sell future versions... But this is just me recollecting a conversation with john... So its not like I insist that i am right or that its any sort of an indication of the what G&G actually plans to do with these units.



Besides, the cost of rewiring a $15k+ system is stuff all compared to the gross cost of the unit & its shipping costs.


----------



## Malted

kieran said:


> Besides, the cost of rewiring a $15k+ system is stuff all compared to the gross cost of the unit & its shipping costs.



If the system was 'destroyed' during the importation process, surely this would be tax deductable for a business? Fixing such a written off asset sounds pretty good since you've claimed the full cost on your tax (instead of a yearly depreciation). Kind of two bites at the cherry? 
Since I am not a business owner I don't know the applicable tax elements, so I could be way out.


----------



## MHB

Sorry guys, I dont get this stuff about mangling a 200 L Braumeister.
They comply with CE standards and there are no Australian Standards for Brew House construction, for pressure vessels, yes they must be certified to comply with AS 1210.
The way the rules stand, there is no reason to pull a 200L Braumeister apart and peer at its gizzard, make sure the wiring and plumbing is done in accordance with your local standards and go for your life.
MHB


----------



## yardy

yeah me either, the 'tested to destruction' thing sounds like bs to me, maybe it's inspected and then some upgrades are required to comply to Aus Std. 
Destruction ?
I don't think so.


----------



## goomboogo

yardy said:


> yeah me either, the 'tested to destruction' thing sounds like bs to me, maybe it's inspected and then some upgrades are required to comply to Aus Std.
> Destruction ?
> I don't think so.



I agree with MHB and Yardy. You'd have to think German Engineering would meet Australian Standards. I wouldn't trust their football officials but I would have faith in their ability to manufacture beer making equipment.


----------



## Malted

All of us armchair experts are on the money; so MHB sells them, what would he know!


----------



## yardy

a long way off topic i know but....

last week, a bloke on a project in Gladstone (where i work), loses both legs because a weld done in Korea, fails.

yet supposedly, the Braumeister and similar imports are tested to 'destruction'...

go figure.


----------



## haysie

yardy said:


> a long way off topic i know but....
> 
> last week, a bloke on a project in Gladstone (where i work), loses both legs because a weld done in Korea, fails.
> 
> yet supposedly, the Braumeister and similar imports are tested to 'destruction'...
> 
> go figure.



drawing a long bow isnt it, ffs


----------



## bum

haysie said:


> drawing a long bow isnt it, ffs


Yeah, I wouldn't imagine it complies with the ISO for bow length.


----------



## Thirsty Boy

OK - i suggest you tell the guy who is planning on buying and stocking them for future sales that he is wrong about what is required for him to do so..... I'm sure he'll be chuffed to know that a bunch of guys on the internet think he's wrong and the process will cost him large piles of dollars less than he was lead to believe.


----------



## Brewman_

Thanks for the clarification, and sorry to take it off topic somewhat.

Now I just need to find the $$ to order one.

Fear_n_loath


----------



## Tim F

Thirsty Boy said:


> OK - i suggest you tell the guy who is planning on buying and stocking them for future sales that he is wrong about what is required for him to do so..... I'm sure he'll be chuffed to know that a bunch of guys on the internet think he's wrong and the process will cost him large piles of dollars less than he was lead to believe.


Maybe it has to be tested because he's going to retail them?


----------



## Duff

Chappo's thread on the ultimate brew rig was timely for me as I was going to completely start from scratch and design and build something.

But after reading this, I'm sold on a 20L Braumeister. My budget was around the $2k mark, but seeing as I can't weld and stuffed when it comes to electricals, etc., I love the simplicity of the unit. We rent at the moment so the 20L system with a 10A plug is very versatile.

Look forward to it :icon_chickcheers: 

Cheers.


----------



## Duff

Duff said:


> Chappo's thread on the ultimate brew rig was timely for me as I was going to completely start from scratch and design and build something.
> 
> But after reading this, I'm sold on a 20L Braumeister. My budget was around the $2k mark, but seeing as I can't weld and stuffed when it comes to electricals, etc., I love the simplicity of the unit. We rent at the moment so the 20L system with a 10A plug is very versatile.
> 
> Look forward to it :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> Cheers.



And the better thing is when I showed the wife the YouTube video, she told me to go ahead and buy one  

MHB, have sent you an email.

Cheers.


----------



## [email protected]

Duff said:


> And the better thing is when I showed the wife the YouTube video, she told me to go ahead and buy one
> 
> MHB, have sent you an email.
> 
> Cheers.




I hate you! :icon_cheers: 

If i ever come across a spare 2K to spend on brewing (unlikely) i would prob get one of these as well. 
Whether or not my missus would be so willing is another matter entirely.

Nice one Duff


----------



## bignath

Duff said:


> And the better thing is when I showed the wife the YouTube video, she told me to go ahead and buy one
> 
> MHB, have sent you an email.
> 
> Cheers.




We need to get our wives to meet! Whilst mine has no problem with any facet of my brewing, if i had money to burn on a system like that, it sure as hell wouldn't get spent on more "beery stuff".

Maybe we could do like a "wife swap USA" type thing, where my wife could come and live in your house, and you could wield your magic over her subconscious..... :icon_cheers:


----------



## Duff

She has wanted me to downsize 'beer world' for some time. So she was sold instantly on the size aspect.

Another big plus for me is I can brew safely around my 2 year old girl who has a tendency to follow 2 inches behind me where ever I walk. No more gas burner and hot kettle.

Looking forward to it  

Cheers.


----------



## Malted

So I have read all thirteen pages (again) and am thinking about cooling and hops. I see a few folks use immersion chillers, some no-chill and some would seem to gravity feed through plate chillers?

With using an *immersion chiller*, would you run the braumeister pump/s to circulate the wort around the chiller? This wouldn't whirlpool the wort but stir it all up and potentialy clog the pumps.
Would you just stir with a spoon every now and then during cooling to mix the wort temps and to whirlpool? 

So with running through the tap to gravity feed into a *plate chiller*, is there a problem with whole hop flowers blocking the tap outlet hole? What sized hole is on the inside tap outlet? Wouldn't you need some sort of screen or filter to keep the hops out of the plate chiller? 

*MHB* made a *doover-lacky* so he could use the pumps to extract the wort from the vessel. The problem I see with this is trying to line up the blooming thing through the wort. It still does not provide a hop blocker/screen other than the tiny pump inlet hole in the bottom of the vessell is at the side. Would this be prone to blocking by whole hops? 

I suppose you could always run a hose from the tap to a pump and then further hose, if you wanted to pump out of the vessel? But this would require an aditional pump. 


And then there is *no-chill*. I have been doing this for a while and have not really been able to lock in good flavour and aroma unless I use the Argon method but this requires another boiling at another time - kind of negating the quick and easy brew day that I am looking for with a braumeister. Comments?

Has anyone thought that they needed to insulate their braumeister? I see that Spiedel sell a *'thermo sleeve'* at 88 Euro that seems like a reasonable price versus buying Nitrile rubber to make one yourself. It would increase energy effiency wouldn't it?


----------



## Florian

Malted, I guess in theory you could run the pump while immersion chilling if you switch to manual mode after the program has finished, but I would strongly recommend not to do so. I don't think it will be good for the pump.

Also be aware that, unless you preheat your immersion chiller, it will bring you boiling temp down when you immerse it, will will in turn extend your total boiling time as the programm stops the countdown until you are back to near boiling temp. Think hop utilization from late additions etc..Not a huge deal, just something to be aware of and plan appropriately.

I no chill, but am thinking of using some kind of chiller at one stage for the same reasons as you. 

I also got that braumeister thermo sleeve which would help a bit. I forgot to put it on yesterday for the first time, but didn't really pay attention if it took longer than usual.


----------



## humulus

Brain is going at a million MPH at the moment,still in the middle of building my 3vessel rig,and doing the sums on what ive got left to spend,the braumeister is looking good,plus SWAMBOs got relos that live in Germany,emailed them last night and have got them on a mission
The idea is still floating around in the grey matter at the moment but its exciting never the less :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Stormahead

Same story here. The other half was cranky with the amount of gear I'd built up for all grain so in the interests of storage space she was sold on the idea of the braumeister.

Wasn't so happy about the price but when she saw the size of it, was instantly more agreeable.


----------



## brianman

For those that are thinking the 20l model may be not be big enough, (i wish i had of brought the 50l, friends now want my beer and i can't brew enough,) i am always getting 27-28lts each brew, into the fermenter. After lifting the malt pipe i sparge with 8lts of hot water, shift the pipe to a 15lt pot, then sparge with a few more lts of hot water. Generally most recipes around the 4.5kg of grain mark plus sugarz. Efficiency 80-83%, i bottle so brew to around 4.2-4.5ABV after bottling.
Cheers
Briby


----------



## mwd

After watching the Youtube videos I really want one of these so bad.


----------



## lastdrinks

Just waiting for grain and grape to get in the stainless steel filters instead of the fiddley paper ones. Then i am going to pull the trigger on a 50l model. I hear John has ordered them but no firm eta.


I am lucky enough to have some spare cash atm but to spend $3.5k on beer gear...... f&*K it you only live once.


----------



## davewaldo

Hi Guys,

I've recently completed my first brew on my new 50L. If you're interested in reading my report and seeing some pics I've started a thread here: 1st Brew on Braumeister


----------



## sama

cool machines,i wonder how long till a chinese version shows up..i reckon $1500 for a 20l,sold..i fail to see where all the money is put into it.Is it the vessel?the control unit?i suppose its the overall clever design/engineering(,which is awesome)l,that you pay for.How does the malt pipe seal to the bottom of the urn,what stops the wort flowing out of the bottom of the malt pipe into the vessel instead of it being pushed up through the grain.Is the bottom domed or something?


----------



## Florian

sama said:


> How does the malt pipe seal to the bottom of the urn,what stops the wort flowing out of the bottom of the malt pipe into the vessel instead of it being pushed up through the grain.Is the bottom domed or something?



The malt pipe seals with a rubber ring which attaches to the malt pipe and can be removed. Once the grain is filled in, you attach another bar ontop of the malt pipe and secure that with a wing nut to the middle shaft, so the malt pipe sits absolutely tight to the bottom of the vessel.
Have a look at the pictures it it's not clear.


----------



## brett mccluskey

sama said:


> cool machines,i wonder how long till a chinese version shows up..i reckon $1500 for a 20l,sold..i fail to see where all the money is put into it.Is it the vessel?the control unit?i suppose its the overall clever design/engineering(,which is awesome)l,that you pay for.


I think some of the cost can be put down to the fact that German engineering and metallurgy are considered some of ,if not,the best in the world.I've seen some Chinese 'clone' imported agricultural equipment and basically it's 'third world industrial ' quality. Even at $1000,i wouldn't consider a Chinese 'copy' of the Braumeister


----------



## sama

Florian said:


> The malt pipe seals with a rubber ring which attaches to the malt pipe and can be removed. Once the grain is filled in, you attach another bar ontop of the malt pipe and secure that with a wing nut to the middle shaft, so the malt pipe sits absolutely tight to the bottom of the vessel.
> Have a look at the pictures it it's not clear.


cool,couldnt see the gasket,rather simple and effective.


----------



## sama

allready thinking of knockin a similar product up in the shed. were is is the temp taken from? near the base/ element?...


----------



## Malted

sama said:


> allready thinking of knockin a similar product up in the shed.




A guy has done just that; Florian has linked to it in previous posts.


----------



## sama

Malted said:


> A guy has done just that; Florian has linked to it in previous posts.


 yeh seen that


----------



## dj1984

i had a quick flick through this thread and could not see the max OG you can get out of these? can you brew a strong RIS or barley wine?


----------



## mwd

dj1984 said:


> i had a quick flick through this thread and could not see the max OG you can get out of these? can you brew a strong RIS or barley wine?




From the other thread Linky to


----------



## ticinglese

thanks to earning a decent currency like you guys down under I just bought a 20l Braumeister from Germany and imported it to Switzerland - way cheaper than through the local agent. Comes with ss mesh now instead of cloth as it seems people were making their own anyway. Before I brew I have a couple of questions any of you Braumeister experts:

- Sparging. The instructions seem to think sparging isn't necessary - does it really extract all available sugars without a sparge? Assuming not should I simply lift the sleeve and pour in water at 78 or remove the top plates and mesh first? starting with 23l, how much should I sparge with? Has anyone tried sparging by drawing off the wort first then lowering the sleeve again and recirculating with the sparge water (kind of against the idea of the single pot but though it might extract more sugar that way)?

- Wastage. Is it me or is the tap to high? do you lose too much wort or is it set at the perfect level not to suck out all the trub when running through the heat exchange?

Any other tips you've had to work out for yourselves would be welcome


----------



## Malted

ticinglese said:


> thanks to earning a decent currency like you guys down under I just bought a 20l Braumeister from Germany and imported it to Switzerland - way cheaper than through the local agent. Comes with ss mesh now instead of cloth as it seems people were making their own anyway. Before I brew I have a couple of questions any of you Braumeister experts:
> 
> - Sparging. The instructions seem to think sparging isn't necessary - does it really extract all available sugars without a sparge? Assuming not should I simply lift the sleeve and pour in water at 78 or remove the top plates and mesh first? starting with 23l, how much should I sparge with? Has anyone tried sparging by drawing off the wort first then lowering the sleeve again and recirculating with the sparge water (kind of against the idea of the single pot but though it might extract more sugar that way)?
> 
> - Wastage. Is it me or is the tap to high? do you lose too much wort or is it set at the perfect level not to suck out all the trub when running through the heat exchange?
> 
> Any other tips you've had to work out for yourselves would be welcome



Welcome to the forum. 
I do not have a braumeister (but will soon).
Whilst this is not strictly a Braumeister forum as such, quite a few people do have them. 
I am not sure if you speak German, (I don't but Google Translate works good enough for me) you can check out http://hobbybrauer.de/ as they have a lot of info on the Braumeister.

There was a short discussion on sparging in another thread on this forum. From what I can tell you may easily get 75% efficiency without sparging, so some would say that is good enough and wouldn't bother. Some would bother and can push their efficiency to 80% or slightly better. Some folks say that it isn't really sparging but more like rinsing any remaining sugars off the grains and some say "isn't that what sparging is?" http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...55813&st=20 This is the link to another thread on this forum where there was some discussion of sparging. MHB said he would leave the top plates on when tipping sparge water through as the plates help to spread the sparge water more evenly.


----------



## MHB

dj1984
As mentioned in another thread, the biggest beer I have ever made in my Braumeister knocked out at 1.114 there was a 2 hour boil in there and the efficiency was absolutely crap (as is always the case with big beer).
If I were to do this again I would lift the malt pipe and put it over a bucket then sparge the grain (bit like a Party Gyle) and do a second boil after the first was finished. What Im thinking is that I wouldnt even empty the Braumeister between boils, just drain down the first batch leaving 3-5 L behind dump in the second runnings, do some quick hop calculations and let rip.

Ticinglese
As discussed earlier in this or one of the other Braumeister threads, a quick flood sparge while the malt pipe is sitting on top of the Braumeister (about 1L/Kg of grist @80oC) and Im regularly hitting 80% efficiency into fermenter, with a bit of basic water chemistry closer to 85%. You could do an incredible amount of screwing around and you wont get over 90%, hardly seams reasonable to get too excited about 5% of 10 Kg of grain a Kg of malt costs so little I for one couldnt be arsed.
The tap is just fine where it is, it allows a quick drain down without disturbing the trub, then I just put a bit of wood under the back leg and drain the last of the wort off slowly, total loss is around 2-3 L including all the trub.
My numbers are all bases on a 50 L Braumeister so you could expect half those losses; again you would have to be so tight you squeaked when you walked to get too excited about the losses.
Braumeisters are very efficient; they excel at making normal/standard beer (12oP & 25 IBU) but thats the vast majority of the beer made so it makes sense that they would be optimised for that point in the market. You can make most any beer you like including some very OTT monsters, but as is always the case at a price in efficiency.
MHB

Malted
Yep thats the goods, ty
M


----------



## ticinglese

Thanks Malted and MHB, I'll try that. Got a bit impatient and did a test run last night, the Braumeister was great until I decided instead of using it for the boil I'd split the wort in 3 pots and give them all a different hop profile - stove must be more powerful than I thought as rather than nice session stout I'm looking at 3 minute quantities of RIS now - probably should have thought about diluting but at least I got something to look forward to drinking at Christmas now!

Aside from this unconnected personal failure the Braumeister is really is great, and I like the way this forum focuses on the positives rather than an american one i read where the general tone was "I can build that better and cheaper". It's a luxury, and sure it could be improved, but I cant think of another system with such a small footprint that can handle an AG brew on a work night.


----------



## ticinglese

...oh and a small tip for those of you like me who didn't realise a nickel plated brass tap can't be welded to an ss pot...

http://jbweld.net/products/water.php

food safe, heat resistant to 150ish and i have 3 pots that have survived a 90 minute boil and the lateral force of turning the tap on and off. I bought it on amazon or ebay in the uk (cant remember) but I'm sure it'll be available in oz too


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

ticinglese said:


> ...oh and a small tip for those of you like me who didn't realise a nickel plated brass tap can't be welded to an ss pot...
> 
> http://jbweld.net/products/water.php
> 
> food safe, heat resistant to 150ish and i have 3 pots that have survived a 90 minute boil and the lateral force of turning the tap on and off. I bought it on amazon or ebay in the uk (cant remember) but I'm sure it'll be available in oz too



+1 JBweld - great for heat exhangers in marine diesels as well. Good gear.
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Thirsty Boy

MHB - have you (or has anyone else for that matter) tried the re-itterated mashing trick with the braumeister? To me that seems like the obvious way to push the OG limit of the unit up higher without sacrificing too much time or efficiency.


----------



## MHB

Sure, we did an Edinburgh Strong Ale
Target OG was 1.080 there was a total of about 2.4 Kg of specialty malt out of nearly 20 Kg whish was all put into the second drop.
You still get a significant reduction in efficiency in the second iteration (?) simply as there is no reason for the sugar to migrate out of the grist once the sugar concentration in solution is up to same concentration as that in the grist.
This is the one area where Full Volume Brewing (Braumeister, BIAB...) has a built in inefficiency, to which I believe there is no solution. True sparging is the one advantage a 3V system offers, if I was making mainly very strong beer I would opt for a 3V.
You can make very strong (approaching the theoretical limits) beer with a Braumeister or using BIAB but there will be an inescapable price in efficiency.
Although the efficiency still suffered re-iterated brewing lets you make the full volume your equipment can handle but I think thats about all
MHB

As an aside: -
I believe George Fix talked about Full Volume Brewing as far back as the 50-60s (rather disparagingly) and coined the term Pillow Case Brewing, I have read some of his comments but I cant for the life of me find the references in any of my books, can anyone recall having seen a reference or know where I might look.
Any help appreciated
Mark


----------



## poppa joe

What's the cost of ..JB Weld ...APPROX......ticinglese...
NO pricing on website.......
PJ


----------



## stux

6.50USD On amazon for water weld

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BRQ0TW/


----------



## ticinglese

poppa joe said:


> What's the cost of ..JB Weld ...APPROX......ticinglese...
> NO pricing on website.......
> PJ




6 or 7 quid in england - probably better to get that one off amazon.com above depending on postage

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=jb+wate...6.c0.m270.l1313


----------



## davewaldo

Are you guys using this JB weld on the Braumeister?


----------



## ticinglese

davewaldo said:


> Are you guys using this JB weld on the Braumeister?




god no, the braumeister may not be perfect but defo no need for waterweld. i just used it on some big pots i bought. drilled a hole near the bottom, cleaned the rough edges, stuck a 3/4 inch tap on the front with the waterweld and boiled the life out of what could have been a nice stout 24 hours later. you could easily do 5 taps with one tube, possibly more if you were tight with it. Admitedly I've only used the pots once but it held out at a v high heat and messing around turning the tap on and off etc. Food safe too which rules out most glues. So far I'd definetly recommend it but not for messing with your braumeister!


----------



## davewaldo

ticinglese said:


> god no, the braumeister may not be perfect but defo no need for waterweld.




Well thats a relief!


----------



## Thirsty Boy

MHB said:


> Sure, we did an Edinburgh Strong Ale
> Target OG was 1.080 there was a total of about 2.4 Kg of specialty malt out of nearly 20 Kg whish was all put into the second drop.
> You still get a significant reduction in efficiency in the second iteration (?) simply as there is no reason for the sugar to migrate out of the grist once the sugar concentration in solution is up to same concentration as that in the grist.
> This is the one area where Full Volume Brewing (Braumeister, BIAB...) has a built in inefficiency, to which I believe there is no solution. True sparging is the one advantage a 3V system offers, if I was making mainly very strong beer I would opt for a 3V.
> You can make very strong (approaching the theoretical limits) beer with a Braumeister or using BIAB but there will be an inescapable price in efficiency.
> Although the efficiency still suffered re-iterated brewing lets you make the full volume your equipment can handle but I think thats about all
> MHB
> 
> As an aside: -
> I believe George Fix talked about Full Volume Brewing as far back as the 50-60s (rather disparagingly) and coined the term Pillow Case Brewing, I have read some of his comments but I cant for the life of me find the references in any of my books, can anyone recall having seen a reference or know where I might look.
> Any help appreciated
> Mark



Thanks Mark - i seem to recall chris colby in that article he wrote about re-itterated mashing, having some sort of convoluted sparging regime that allowed him to get reasonably good (although of course reduced) efficiency out of that re-itterated mashing technique. I thought that might well be applicable to a braumeister too. But imo if you are brewing genuinely big beers you just need to cop it sweet on the efficiency drop no matter what system you are using, so its more about whether its possible to do or not on a given system - and it sounds more than doable.

One thing that might be of service to both braumeister and BIAB brewers who want to incorporate a sparge step, but dont want to increase the number of vessels in their system is something that i know is done by Spillsmostofit and was tested by Kai Troester... Cold water sparging. Yeah yeah... I hear all the howls of protest from the usual suspects "the heat reduces wort viscosity" "the heat dissolves the sugars better" etc etc various reasons why cold water sparging would be worse than useless. But as a matter of fact it isn't. Spills does it, Kai tested it and I've tried it and it works only slightly less well than sparging with water at traditional temps. I haven't tried it out on a traditional full fly sparge, only on BIAB and batch sparges .. and I guess it might work less well on a fly sparge, but i kind of doubt it. And what i have tried on a fly sparge is hot water from the tap - it works near enough to identically with sparge temp water so as not to matter.

Means that sparging in what would otherwise be a full volume brew, is a matter of the act itself and whether you can be bothered with it, rather than needing an extra vessel to heat water.

TB


----------



## wessmith

Thirsty Boy said:


> Thanks Mark - i seem to recall chris colby in that article he wrote about re-itterated mashing, having some sort of convoluted sparging regime that allowed him to get reasonably good (although of course reduced) efficiency out of that re-itterated mashing technique. I thought that might well be applicable to a braumeister too. But imo if you are brewing genuinely big beers you just need to cop it sweet on the efficiency drop no matter what system you are using, so its more about whether its possible to do or not on a given system - and it sounds more than doable.
> 
> One thing that might be of service to both braumeister and BIAB brewers who want to incorporate a sparge step, but dont want to increase the number of vessels in their system is something that i know is done by Spillsmostofit and was tested by Kai Troester... Cold water sparging. Yeah yeah... I hear all the howls of protest from the usual suspects "the heat reduces wort viscosity" "the heat dissolves the sugars better" etc etc various reasons why cold water sparging would be worse than useless. But as a matter of fact it isn't. Spills does it, Kai tested it and I've tried it and it works only slightly less well than sparging with water at traditional temps. I haven't tried it out on a traditional full fly sparge, only on BIAB and batch sparges .. and I guess it might work less well on a fly sparge, but i kind of doubt it. And what i have tried on a fly sparge is hot water from the tap - it works near enough to identically with sparge temp water so as not to matter.
> 
> Means that sparging in what would otherwise be a full volume brew, is a matter of the act itself and whether you can be bothered with it, rather than needing an extra vessel to heat water.
> 
> TB



TB, more than one micro I know has been forced to utilise a cold or luke warm sparge. Usually occurs when (a) the heat source fails in the HLT, or (B) the brewer forgot to refill the HLT after mash-in. In every case the results have been surprisingly good - not too much lost gravity.

Wes


----------



## Florian

Cold water sparging - that's what I regularly do on the Braumeister. I usually only sparge with 3 to 4 liters, so instead of messing around with a separate hot plate or a kettle, I just run of a few jugs straight of the RO tap. 
Works well enough for my purposes, seeing it's only a small amount and the grain bed still gives off some heat anyway.

Sometimes I mix half a liter of hot wort with half a liter of RO water to keep the temperature a bit higher and to incorporate some of the previously added salts into the sparge water. I'm yet to find out what difference in numbers it exactly makes, if any.


Another thing I do regularly and that very surprisingly hasn't come up in the Braumeister discussions yet are decoctions.
The point here is obviously not to raise the temperature, but I do decoctions where I deem it beneficial for colouring and flavour. 
Although a little bit messy, it' such a simple thing to do if you don't have to rely on hitting target temps by calculating a certain grain percentage as you would on an esky mash tun or similar system.

At the end of a temperature rest just hit the pause buttons, remove the upper false bottom and withdraw a portion of the mash. Depending on how long I decide to boil and after which step I pause the program, I either leave the program in pause mode or let it continue, sometimes skipping a whole mash step. Then just return the decoction to the main mash and continue the program.

Another thing I want to try with one of my next beers is starting with a decoction straight away. So basically starting the mash with only, let's say, 70% of the grist, and bringing the other 30% slowly to a boil in a separate pot, possibly incorporating some short rests on the way. 
That would skip the step of withdrawing a part of the mash from the Braumeister while already in operation (my least favourite part of the decoction), so the program only needs to be paused once to return the mash, making it even easier.


----------



## Mearesy

Interesting stuff about your decoction process Florian! Sounds like a simple enough thing to add to the process when the beer being brewed calls for it. Have a BM on order at the moment, and will def. give this idea a go in the future!


----------



## drtomc

TB, I've done cold water sparging for BIAB for an OG 1.080 baltic porter. The mash efficiency came out at 80%.

My notes say that I did a "dunk sparge" into 5L of tap water.

cheers,
T.


----------



## wobbly

TWOC in Perth has just taken delivery of a 200 liter unit which he indicated he was planning to use to go into fresh wort kits and is expecting a number of 20 litre units in a couple of weeks.

He is selling the 20lt units for $2500

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## schooey

I'm sure the two Braumeister dealers will be interested in that little snippet....

Edit: ohhhhh, TWOC is a Lhbs? Does this mean there are now three dealers in Aus?


----------



## scott_penno

Only two listed here http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/shop_co.../Sales-Partners

sap.


----------



## Malted

sappas said:


> Only two listed here http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/shop_co.../Sales-Partners
> sap.



Yep maybe there are three dealers in Aus.
I am quite certain they will be interested:

Listed on TWOC website +$50
http://www.homebru.com.au/index.php?main_p...cPath=12_22_121


----------



## ticinglese

Malted said:


> I am quite certain they WILL be interested:
> 
> Listed on TWOC website +$50
> http://www.homebru.com.au/index.php?main_p...cPath=12_22_121




apologies if there is a thread on this already (and please point me there if there is) but the BM manual suggested freezing a litre or two of wort before u add the yeast that is then defrosted and used as the sugar input for secondary fermentation. seemed to me a classy way of doing it and possibly something to do with the reinheitsgebot in germany but probably a bit hit an miss unless you have a tool/speadsheet that tells you how much to add depending on the OG. Any one ever tried it?


----------



## Malted

ticinglese said:


> apologies if there is a thread on this already (and please point me there if there is) but the BM manual suggested freezing a litre or two of wort before u add the yeast that is then defrosted and used as the sugar input for secondary fermentation. seemed to me a classy way of doing it and possibly something to do with the reinheitsgebot in germany but probably a bit hit an miss unless you have a tool/speadsheet that tells you how much to add depending on the OG. Any one ever tried it?




I was reading about that just today, don't remember the content...
There was a calculator that I downloaded that would tell you the volume and specs of a Krausening beer (from set aside wort) to add for secondary fermentation/carbonation, but that's on my work computer


----------



## outbreak

Why would they be interested?? He is approx 4000km away and has had the Braumeister for ages now.


----------



## Malted

outbreak said:


> Why would they be interested?? He is approx 4000km away and has had the Braumeister for ages now.




Turf warz an all that...
Authorised resellers an all that...
Maybe BM haven't updated their website in a while and have pooped on their authorised Australian resellers?


----------



## outbreak

Malted said:


> Turf warz an all that...
> Authorised resellers an all that...
> Maybe BM haven't updated their website in a while and have pooped on their authorised Australian resellers?



Wouldn't be the first time a supplier has done something like that! Its good we have a supplier in Perth, shipping from the east can be a bitch.


----------



## MHB

As one of the two dealers in question, I can say there is no problem, G&G worked out a deal to drop ship units to WA through TWOC, I think considering the growing interest in Braumeisters that you might see some other similar deals popping up over the next couple of months.
Mark


----------



## Bribie G

Off topic for the BM but picking up on one of Florian's ideas, I'm brewing tomorrow and I'll try his suggestion of mashing a part of the grain in a stockpot then raising it to the boil and tip it into the main BIAB mash. It will give me something to do while waiting for the main water to reach strike temp (I'll be using RO) and I have a temperature mixing calculator so there won't be any guesswork on hitting correct mash temp. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Malted

ticinglese said:


> apologies if there is a thread on this already (and please point me there if there is) but the BM manual suggested freezing a litre or two of wort before u add the yeast that is then defrosted and used as the sugar input for secondary fermentation. seemed to me a classy way of doing it and possibly something to do with the reinheitsgebot in germany but probably a bit hit an miss unless you have a tool/speadsheet that tells you how much to add depending on the OG. Any one ever tried it?



Ok so now I see what I found is not exactly what you're after.

Here's a link to an article about the subject of using Krausening beer made from Wort kept aside from the main brew http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Kraeu...ting_the_volume
At the Bottom of the paragraph "Calculating the Volume" there is a link to download "carbonation calculator metric units."

Not as easy as putting in unfermented wort as the bulk priming solution but according to the article Krausening beer does have some benefits. 
The process may not be practical for us homebrewers but I wouldn't be surprised if a starter of 3 Litres or so couldn't be used.


----------



## mxd

went to G+G today and the 200 ltr unit was getting it's maiden voyage, it was setup yesterday.


----------



## ticinglese

Malted said:


> Ok so now I see what I found is not exactly what you're after.
> 
> Here's a link to an article about the subject of using Krausening beer made from Wort kept aside from the main brew http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Kraeu...ting_the_volume
> At the Bottom of the paragraph "Calculating the Volume" there is a link to download "carbonation calculator metric units."
> 
> Not as easy as putting in unfermented wort as the bulk priming solution but according to the article Krausening beer does have some benefits.
> The process may not be practical for us homebrewers but I wouldn't be surprised if a starter of 3 Litres or so couldn't be used.



Thanks Malted! Looks fairly simple, I might try that, tho first I think I'll bottle half with plain wort and the other half with sugar and compare and if that doesn't work then try with kraeusen. Talking to a kiwi who set up his own microbrewery here about it and he just has pressurised conditioning tanks and when the wort hits about 1plato he shuts off the vent and the CO2 simply builds up inside. then he bottles/kegs with counterpressure. probably more complicated than it sounds but definitely sounds like a future project with a corny keg!


----------



## Florian

:icon_offtopic: 



ticinglese said:


> Talking to a kiwi who set up his own microbrewery here about it and he just has pressurised conditioning tanks and when the wort hits about 1plato he shuts off the vent and the CO2 simply builds up inside. then he bottles/kegs with counterpressure. probably more complicated than it sounds but definitely sounds like a future project with a corny keg!



That's fairly easy to do at home. Get one of these, rack from primary to keg before fermentation has finished, set to desired pressure. Once finished, cold condition and filter to second keg if you like, or just live with a few cloudy pints.

I've done it a few times and it works fairly well, but I've gone back to mostly force carbing now.


----------



## ticinglese

Florian said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> 
> 
> That's fairly easy to do at home. Get one of these, rack from primary to keg before fermentation has finished, set to desired pressure. Once finished, cold condition and filter to second keg if you like, or just live with a few cloudy pints.
> 
> I've done it a few times and it works fairly well, but I've gone back to mostly force carbing now.



great tip! thanks Florian. funny a lot of people get snobby about forced carbonation til you explain to them co2 is co2 and natural carbonation is no more "organic" than forced, just less predictable and possibly more romantic.


----------



## Malted

ticinglese said:


> great tip! thanks Florian. funny a lot of people get snobby about forced carbonation til you explain to them co2 is co2 and natural carbonation is no more "organic" than forced, just less predictable and possibly more romantic.




You've been speaking to British people haven't you (particulalrly those aligned with CAMRA).  
Listen to your Kiwi mate, those guys (sorry to generalise) are world leaders in the craft brewing revolution. 
Just out of interest, you're from Zurich and got your Braumeister there, are you still living there? Just thinking a Kiwi setting up a microbrewery in Switzerland would have big balls to take on the beer world on its home turf; but then sorry to generalise again, Kiwis are a very courageous and innovative mob. 
Sorry to any Kiwis who I may have inadvertently complimented, if you're offended please let me know and I'll say something nasty to balance it out.


----------



## ticinglese

Malted said:


> You've been speaking to British people haven't you (particulalrly those aligned with CAMRA).
> Listen to your Kiwi mate, those guys (sorry to generalise) are world leaders in the craft brewing revolution.
> Just out of interest, you're from Zurich and got your Braumeister there, are you still living there? Just thinking a Kiwi setting up a microbrewery in Switzerland would have big balls to take on the beer world on its home turf; but then sorry to generalise again, Kiwis are a very courageous and innovative mob.
> Sorry to any Kiwis who I may have inadvertently complimented, if you're offended please let me know and I'll say something nasty to balance it out.




yeah i grew up in the uk so that's where the co2 snobbery came from. lived in zurich for 11 years. the kiwi worked for a big regional brewery before it was bought up and closed down by the big boys. he set up on his own ten years ago and has a good local following and won a european beer star gold medal for his stout http://bierfactory.ch/English/indexE.html

more amazingly there is a kiwi and an aussie who have set up a new micro _together_ in ireland! its called 8 degrees. not tried it yet but i'm going there at the end of august so i'll try and get hold of some.


----------



## humulus

O.K. Braumeisters,probably a dumb question,my 20l should be here this week,how do you guys do the hop additions,do you use hop bags or stockings?
Or just just add your hops straight in,just thinking or ease of cleaning and whirl pooling ?
cheers humulus


----------



## pmash

humulus said:


> O.K. Braumeisters,probably a dumb question,my 20l should be here this week,how do you guys do the hop additions,do you use hop bags or stockings?
> Or just just add your hops straight in,just thinking or ease of cleaning and whirl pooling ?
> cheers humulus



Well , I do both, depending on whether I'm going to chill or cube!
'May sound a bit weird but I find it easy to strain the hops and trub through a hop sock. straight into the open-mouth of my fermenter.
If I'm going to no-chill into a cube, then all my hop additions go into a sock.
I have plan in motion to fit a pick-up tube fitted with a filter screen but hey, these things take time  
With the drain tap so high on the pot, you have to tilt the kettle quite a way and hence all the trub falls toward the tap, unless you are willing to loose about 3 lts of wort.
Either way, I hope you enjoy your new brewing experience.


----------



## humulus

pmash said:


> Well , I do both, depending on whether I'm going to chill or cube!
> 'May sound a bit weird but I find it easy to strain the hops and trub through a hop sock. straight into the open-mouth of my fermenter.
> If I'm going to no-chill into a cube, then all my hop additions go into a sock.
> I have plan in motion to fit a pick-up tube fitted with a filter screen but hey, these things take time
> With the drain tap so high on the pot, you have to tilt the kettle quite a way and hence all the trub falls toward the tap, unless you are willing to loose about 3 lts of wort.
> Either way, I hope you enjoy your new brewing experience.


Cheers pmash cant wait for brew weekend in a week,wil let you know how the "fraulein" performs!


----------



## Rurik

I use pellets strate it the BM no issues. Do not use flowers or plugs st ut does not like it.


----------



## RdeVjun

Rurik said:


> I use pellets strate it the BM no issues. Do not use flowers or plugs st ut does not like it.


What happens with whole or plugs Rurik, something clogs up?


----------



## humulus

Rurik said:


> I use pellets strate it the BM no issues. Do not use flowers or plugs st ut does not like it.


Cheers,im sure there will be a heap more questions when it arrives!


----------



## Rurik

RdeVjun said:


> What happens with whole or plugs Rurik, something clogs up?


It clogs every thing up! Then will require a full strip down and clean.


----------



## banora brewer

Rurik said:


> It clogs every thing up! Then will require a full strip down and clean.


I'm still waiting for mine to turn up, but couldnt you use a hop sock for flowers?


----------



## proudscum

use flowers in most brews but it can slow the runoff right down but on the bright side you get bright wort into the fermenter


----------



## bevdawg

So I'm going to buy a Braumiester! Very exciting times... at first I was going to get a 20L system, but my wife seems to think I should just get a 50L system, as no doubt in the coming years I'll just wish I got the double size set up for another $1000... now I'm just wondering how the 50L system would go making a 20-23L batch? Do you need the shorter malt pipe or can you just brew with less water etc and change the settings to work with it?


----------



## mwd

Must be a nice dilemma to have I would go the 50 it is much easier to scale down than it is to scale up. The 20 would do me fine as I only make 23l max anyway. Would hate bottling 50 litres and two fermenters worth.


----------



## banora brewer

Tropical_Brews said:


> Must be a nice dilemma to have I would go the 50 it is much easier to scale down than it is to scale up. The 20 would do me fine as I only make 23l max anyway. Would hate bottling 50 litres and two fermenters worth.


You can brew more often with the 20 ltr


----------



## bevdawg

What do you mean?


----------



## banora brewer

bevdawg said:


> What do you mean?


What I was trying to say is, that if you have a 50 ltr, if you make a brew you don't like, you have alot to get through. With the 20 ltr you can brew many styles.


----------



## stux

Put the 20L short pipe into the 50L and you have the best of both worlds.

I brew single and double batches. Double batches when I'm trying to rebuild stocks either before or after a big 'event' (wedding, birthday, new years eve party etc) and singles the rest of the time.

I know I would definately get the 50L BM if it were me. And I also know if I had've got the 20L in the past I'd be kicking myself now 

Your wife is right, obey her


----------



## bevdawg

Haha, OK! Sorry yes I see what you mean about brewing a big dud batch of 50ltr... but what I was wanting to know was is it possible to brew 20L batches in a 50L unit without buying anything extra?

If I have to get the short malt pipe, what are they worth roughly?


----------



## Mearesy

Grain and Grape has them for $140. Got my 20L BM on Monday. Brewed monday night. Easiest and most enjoyable brew day ever. This is a really nice piece of kit and I'm very happy!


----------



## Clutch

After introducing myself to Ross and bending his ear for about 30 mins this morning, I have to say that my mate and I are going to go for the 50L, but will be purchasing an urn style setup from Ross next week or so to tide us over.
Very excited after reading this thread.


----------



## humulus

Could not be happier with my 20l...so easy but you still enjoy the brewing process,if anyone is thinking about it i say DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## durgarth

I also have ordered 50 litre from Ross. I discussed it with the minister (war and finance) and with discount it was too good to pass up. Even with the frieght from QLD to the ACT it was still cheaper. I banked on $230 freight and insurance....So I held my breath and ordered, paying the deposit.

This weekend I recieved a nice surprise and got a call from Ross. He has somehow managed to have my unit delivered to my door from Germany direct via FEDEX.....to boot it was cheaper than the estimated postage (and insurance). The HUGE bonus is that I can, due to the airfreight, have my fraulein cooking in 2 weeks. Already planning a cook up with a few of boys.

Just have to get Bob my sparky mate to come over and install my 15 Amp PP. No beers for him until that is done :lol: .


----------



## davewaldo

Seeing as this seems to be the main Braumeister thread I thought I should post this here so it can be added to the wealth of knowledge already collated.

Here is my stand I built for my 50L BM. If you'd like to read more, check out this thread.

Cheers,

Dave.


----------



## banora brewer

Received my Braumaister today, big weekend of brewing coming up!!!!


----------



## banora brewer

Just mashed in a fat yak clone on my new Braumaister!!!! Loving it


----------



## RobB

Can Braumeister owners tell me if they are happy to turn their backs on their machine while it does its thing, or if they have any disaster stories from doing so?

I'm happy with the quality, clarity and efficiency I'm currently getting from BIAB, but if I could perform a two hour multi-rest mash while I'm off doing something else, then I would suddenly become interested. The idea of brewing while I'm at junior sport/gardening/whatever is pretty attractive for me because uninterrupted four hour periods on weekends don't seem to happen as often as I would like.


----------



## banora brewer

Malty Cultural said:


> Can Braumeister owners tell me if they are happy to turn their backs on their machine while it does its thing, or if they have any disaster stories from doing so?
> 
> I'm happy with the quality, clarity and efficiency I'm currently getting from BIAB, but if I could perform a two hour multi-rest mash while I'm off doing something else, then I would suddenly become interested. The idea of brewing while I'm at junior sport/gardening/whatever is pretty attractive for me because uninterrupted four hour periods on weekends don't seem to happen as often as I would like.


I've just managed to make a lasagna from scratch while mashing!!!


----------



## davewaldo

Malty Cultural said:


> Can Braumeister owners tell me if they are happy to turn their backs on their machine while it does its thing, or if they have any disaster stories from doing so?
> 
> I'm happy with the quality, clarity and efficiency I'm currently getting from BIAB, but if I could perform a two hour multi-rest mash while I'm off doing something else, then I would suddenly become interested. The idea of brewing while I'm at junior sport/gardening/whatever is pretty attractive for me because uninterrupted four hour periods on weekends don't seem to happen as often as I would like.




Yeah I just check on it every so often. The only time I've had issues was when I put too much malt in the small malt pipe, and I could tell as soon as the pumps started that it couldn't really handle it. So if mashing starts fine I would be confident to leave it do its thing.


----------



## BeerSwiller

banora brewer said:


> Just mashed in a fat yak clone on my new Braumaister!!!! Loving it



Sorry for being OT but what was the recipe for your FY clone? Pls?


----------



## RobB

The video on the Speidel site shows the users topping up with water at the end of the boil, but nobody seems to have mentioned it in the last 17 pages. Is it required to achieve the full volume, or does the flood sparge provide the extra volume at the start of the boil?


----------



## banora brewer

Malty Cultural said:


> The video on the Speidel site shows the users topping up with water at the end of the boil, but nobody seems to have mentioned it in the last 17 pages. Is it required to achieve the full volume, or does the flood sparge provide the extra volume at the start of the boil?



I just sparge with 5 litres of water when i lift the malt pipe.


----------



## BierFest

Hi All,
Im thinking of getting one of these setups as they look fantastic. However I just had a few questions for some of you who already have the setup.
1. Has anyone bought the copper hood and if so are there any advantages to having it?
2. Do you guys use dried hops or pellet hops? If using dried hops do you have any problems using these with this machine? 
Thanks,
Brian.


----------



## banora brewer

BierFest said:


> Hi All,
> Im thinking of getting one of these setups as they look fantastic. However I just had a few questions for some of you who already have the setup.
> 1. Has anyone bought the copper hood and if so are there any advantages to having it?
> 2. Do you guys use dried hops or pellet hops? If using dried hops do you have any problems using these with this machine?
> Thanks,
> Brian.


Hi Brian, I just use the pellets, I have used flowers, I just used a hop sock. If you get one you won't be disappointed. I'm not sure about the copper lid.


----------



## humulus

BierFest said:


> Hi All,
> Im thinking of getting one of these setups as they look fantastic. However I just had a few questions for some of you who already have the setup.
> 1. Has anyone bought the copper hood and if so are there any advantages to having it?
> 2. Do you guys use dried hops or pellet hops? If using dried hops do you have any problems using these with this machine?
> Thanks,
> Brian.


I only use the pellets Brian,the copper hood is great if you have to brew indoors, you can duct the steam from the boil out side by just using that flexi duct you get from the big green shed! It also gets the boil going quicker but still allows the bad stuff to boil off
If you can afford it get one there bloody awsome!! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## BierFest

Thanks for the replies! I think I am definately sold and will be ordering over the next week or so. If you had the chance would you order the 20l or the 50l along with the insert malt pipe for 20l?
I still cant decide if the copper hood is actually useful or if it is just meant to look good and direct the steam as suggested here! I suspect also that if brewing in a colder climate it might help to get the boil going faster but im not sure.


----------



## Malted

BierFest said:


> Thanks for the replies! I think I am definately sold and will be ordering over the next week or so. If you had the chance would you order the 20l or the 50l along with the insert malt pipe for 20l?
> I still cant decide if the copper hood is actually useful or if it is just meant to look good and direct the steam as suggested here! I suspect also that if brewing in a colder climate it might help to get the boil going faster but im not sure.




The machines do come with a lid, if you're wanting to get it to boil faster you could use that, or some form of insulation around the outside.
IMO the copper hood is a waste of time unless you're wanting to vent the steam somewhere. Otherwise IMO it is on no use other than expensive bling.


----------



## stux

Malted said:


> some form of insulation around the outside.



Spiedel do make an insulation jacket, seems to be a nice solution

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8878


----------



## rockin49

Hi All,

I've been reviewing a number of Braumeister threads on a couple of forums, watched the youtube videos and reviewed the manufacturers' website, but haven't been able to see one of these in action in person. I'm considering a 20L version since I want to cutover to a rig that doesn't take much brew effort and produces a consistent result - something I don't now get with a 2v gas setup. 

Is there someone in Brisbane (I'm just east of Bris) that's doing a brew on one of these in the next week that doesn't mind me watching for a bit and asking a few questions? I just want to be 100% that the system is really what I'm after before taking the plunge. Ross mentioned that the store demo model isn't yet available and I want to grab one of these soon if they're ok.

Please pm me if ok.

Dan


----------



## RobB

I keep finding my way back to this thread. That little voice in my head must be trying to tell me something.

There has been some chat regarding smaller batches in the 50 litre model, but what would be the smallest batch you could do in the 20 litre? I brew for my 12 litre kegs, so I would want to finish with about 13 litres plus trub at the end of the boil. What is the minimum volume of water required to run through the mash? I'd like to avoid a three hour boil to hit my target volume!

With my batch size, the amount of grain I use is only about 2.8kg for a 1.050 brew. Would this be sufficient to form a good grain bed in the 20 litre unit?


----------



## wobbly

Not sure if 2.8kg grain would form an acceptable bed height however after having a look at my 20lt unit and doing a couple of quick (rough) calculations it would look like the min vol you could work with would be around 20.5lt based on the following.
1. You will need to maintain about 100mm of return wort on the outside of the malt pipe to provide adequate cover over the heating element
2. Malt pipe dia = 26.5cm, height = 36cm = 19.7lt vol (approx)
3. To provide cover over heating element (Braumeister dia =34cm height = 10cm = 9.3lt vol approx) minus (malt pipe dia 26.5cm heighht =10cm =5.5lt vol approx) = 9.3 - 5.5 = 3.8lt vol
4. So vol required to fill malt pipe and also provide 100mm cover over heating element = 19.7lt + 3.8lt = 23.5lt
5 From this you would need to deduct the vol that the grain would occupy which could be around 5lt of vol capacity
6. So with grain in the malt pipe you would then need an additional 20.5lt of water approx (23.5lt - 5lt grain vol + 2.5lt absorsion= 20.5lt) 
7. Allowing for grain absorbsion say 2.5lt, trub loss say 2lt, and evaporation of say 2lt you are going to end up with a final vol of somewhere around 14lt 

8.This is where you would run into a catch 22 situation because whithout the grian in the malt pipe you will not have sufficient fluid to provide adequate circulation to cover the heating element and you will not be able to operate the control system to heat your water without the grain being present which defeats the design of the system. 

And even if you could manage the situation it would all be a very tight balancing act.

An alternative could be to place a piece of "styrofoam" (say 150mm thick and say 6mm smaller in diameter than the malt pipe?) or similar on top of the top filter to fill the voide between the top filter and the hold down bar. You would possibly need to have some sort of spacers (say 6mm) between the top filter and the underside of the styrofoam to ensure you didn't restrict the pump flow through the grain bed

Hope this gives you some further food for thought

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Florian

Hey Wobbly, I might have completely misunderstood what you wrote, but under your point 8. It sounds like as if you're initially heating your water already with the malt pipe insertet? You shouldn't insert the malt pipe without adding the grain straight away, so basically heat you water to strike temp without the malt pipe. 
As I said, it's still early and I may have misunderstood what you meant. 

Also, you could always mash in straight away, say at 20 degrees, and so eliminating a further interuption from whatever you're doing besides brewing. I do this most of the times as it means that I only have to attend to the BM three times during brew day (recipe dependant), once at the start, then to lift the malt pipe and FWH and at the end.


----------



## wobbly

Hi Florain

Mate it's proberbly the way I wrote it. It was late at night and I had not long been home after a tasting session (of more than 1) of the LC Big Dipper brew which I thought was very tasty

No I heat the water first to around 42C then add the malt pipe then add the grain and let it soak for about 15 mins and then start to ramp to either protein or first maltos rest

What I was trying to say was if Malty Cultural only wanted to brew 13lt into his fermenter using the 20lt Braumeister then he would have to find a way of eat up some of the internal displacement of the malt pipe because it alone will requires around 15lt/16lt to reach overflow with 2.8kg of grain and you also will require around an additional 4 to 5 lt to adequately cover the heating element. I guess the point I was trying to make is that it could/would be a delicate balancing act to try and achieve 13lt into the fermenter.

The best option I can think of would as I suggestered to try and fill some of the voide above the malt with something like a styrofoam plug etc

Off this particular topic you mention that you dough in at around 20C. 

Do you have a typical mash schedule for say a Pale Ale and how do you account for the ramp times between rests. For example if you did a protein rest at say 55C and your first maltos rest was at say 64C and your system took say 10 mins to ramp from one to the other there is quite a bit of conversion going on during this ramp which could tend to influence the amount of fermentable mash sugars.

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Duff

First brew today on the 20L.

These things are fantastic. Brewed a pilsener doughing in at 35 then going 52 - 63 - 72 - 78. Filled the malt pipe in the drain position then lowered in. Only problem I had was a wort fountain out over the top so will add some rice hulls next brew. Was unsure on water quantity initially, the manual states around 2cm from the top notch but online they say to fill to the top. I went with the 2cm down to start but after the sparge I topped up to the top notch (25L). Boil off was between 4 - 5L, plus losses, so ended up with a litre or two under 20. I think next brew I'll leave the lid on half for the first 30min then take off for the final 60min. There also were a few grains escape around the side of the fine SS filter so will try something similar to what MHB uses.

Like everyone else had crystal clear wort but was surprised when I assembled to see a European plug on the lead. Used my adapter I take overseas to brew. Is everyone else's like this?

Cheers.


----------



## Bongchitis

Duff said:


> First brew today on the 20L.
> 
> ...........Like everyone else had crystal clear wort but was surprised when I assembled to see a European plug on the lead. Used my adapter I take overseas to brew. Is everyone else's like this?
> 
> Cheers.




Yeah they all come with the Euro plug. The good thing is though you can use a standard computer cord.


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## RobB

Thanks Wobbly for the excellent information. To spend that much, I'd want to be sure it was going to be just right, so I'll put my wallet away while I think about appropriate space fillers.


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## Malted

Malty Cultural said:


> Thanks Wobbly for the excellent information. To spend that much, I'd want to be sure it was going to be just right, so I'll put my wallet away while I think about appropriate space fillers.



Or with 12L kegs you could make a slightly higher gravity wort on the 20L Braumeister, so that it could be diluted in the fermenters to a total volume of say 26L (allowing 2L for loss to trub). You could split the batch and ferement two lots of 13L with differents yeasts, or split the wort prior to boiling (i.e two boils) and use different hopping schedules in the BM and then use different yeasts . Same grain bill but two different beers feremented for your 12L kegs.


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## Fish13

yardy said:


> a long way off topic i know but....
> 
> last week, a bloke on a project in Gladstone (where i work), loses both legs because a weld done in Korea, fails.
> 
> yet supposedly, the Braumeister and similar imports are tested to 'destruction'...
> 
> go figure.




Wouldn't of been for a stacker and or reclaimer being built by Sandvik(Voest Alpine?)



haysie said:


> drawing a long bow isnt it, ffs




No not really when the stuff is being builtin Korea must meet our AS/IS and yet the inspector get bribed with cash/booze so we send our inspectors over and shit fails. Then cost blow outs and deadlines do not get meet.

Even ask guys having electrical cabinets built in china to contracts and they need to be rewired in aus... Short cuts are everwhere..

I spent some time on a project in FNQ with alot of the welding and painting must be redone done to failing to meet contracts/standards. ITs great fun also watching parts being modified on site do to incorrect fitment and to find out it was made in aus.... Although some of the drawings where done in India..



SOrry for the OT and the drag up of a 5 month of post.


----------



## sama

I wonder how far off an asian rip off version is.maybe its such a limited market they arent going to bother.


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## HaveFun

So I have read all 18teen pages and a couple beers later :chug: im really thinking about buying a braumeister..

sound all very good and easy for me

cheers stefan
mandurah


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## banora brewer

BavariaStefan said:


> So I have read all 18teen pages and a couple beers later :chug: im really thinking about buying a braumeister..
> 
> sound all very good and easy for me
> 
> cheers stefan
> mandurah


I did the same thing, that's why I got one.


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## pmunny

They are so hassle free! Most of the time any way... After i tossed the grain in on Sunday I took my son to the park, came home prepared dinner and watched some of the GP. Too easy :kooi:


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## doon

I am still not happy to go out and leave it though. Haven't had a wort fountain or pump struggle for a while but murphys law!


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## alfadog

I like to be there so that during the pump break I can take the lid off and stir the grain. It has helped my efficiency a few points.


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## MHB

Wort fountains are caused by grinding the malt too fine nothing else just that.
You dont need to stop and stir either if you have a decent crack, when you are milling grain for a Braumeister it should be (as said in the instructions) opened up, evenly cracked but not too fine.
With the right crack the wort will recirculate evenly through the grain bed you will get good extraction and if you are looking for slightly higher efficiency just extend the mash cycle by 15 minutes or so and you will get pretty much the same results without mucking around.
Mark


----------



## SJW

That said, I still think you can crush as fine if not a little finer with the BM if required with no problems. I hit 85% eff, no problem. But efficiency is not everything. Buying a BM for me was the best thing I ever did. Now I can reproduce a favourite beer over and over as the BM is a much more controlled brewing environment. I still think that learning how to brew "long hand" ie, on a 3v type system or similar is invaluable brewing experience and would only make u a better brewer with a BM. 
No more lifting 50 litre kettles and mash tuns and pulling false bottoms apart to clean, March pump maintenance and replacing hoses, or burning my hands on quick disconnects or forgetting to turn my HLT off and boiling it dry, melting the plug to the HLT, or running out of gas.


Steve


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## soundawake

Spent this evening reading all 18 pages, now racking my brain thinking about what around the house I don't need anymore and can sell so I can get one of these bad boys!!


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## DarkFaerytale

soundawake said:


> Spent this evening reading all 18 pages, now racking my brain thinking about what around the house I don't need anymore and can sell so I can get one of these bad boys!!




i hear that. i'm hopeing grain and grape do another sale closer to christmas, thats when i'm getting mine... sale = accessories!


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## swiggingpig

After much reading, researching and justification to myself and SWMBO I finally placed my order for a 20L Braumeister  

I just wanted to mention that it was the informative threads on this forum, MHB's honesty and belief in the BM and finally the down to earth vid that SJW put together of his brew day with a 20L BM that really helped me to make my mind up.

Cheers :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## SJW

swiggingpig said:


> After much reading, researching and justification to myself and SWMBO I finally placed my order for a 20L Braumeister
> 
> I just wanted to mention that it was the informative threads on this forum, MHB's honesty and belief in the BM and finally the down to earth vid that SJW put together of his brew day with a 20L BM that really helped me to make my mind up.
> 
> Cheers :icon_chickcheers:


Glad it helped, you will love it mate, and buying from Mark you can be sure everything will be fine now and into the future. The little extras he adds to the BM's work great, ie, the S/S bent pickup and rubber seal around the top filter really add value, not to mention the couple of gree brews he throws in


----------



## swiggingpig

SJW said:


> Glad it helped, you will love it mate, and buying from Mark you can be sure everything will be fine now and into the future. The little extras he adds to the BM's work great, ie, the S/S bent pickup and rubber seal around the top filter really add value, not to mention the couple of gree brews he throws in



I would really have liked to buy from Mark, he deserves the business, but I live in the UK and Speidel have told me that I must buy from the UK distributor  

I would like to get hold of the rubber seal and the S/S bent pickup, as you say, they are useful additions to improve the BM. I'll drop him a PM and hopefully he's prepared to sell them to me and ship to the UK


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## mwd

So what kind of price is the 20 and 50 in the U.K. SP?

I know the British Pound is kind of weak compared to the Euro zone. The Aussie dollar is way overvalued due to the rush to sell off all the countries resources.

The Braumeisters here seem to be awfully expensive IMO.


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## yeastfeast

Tropical_Brews said:


> So what kind of price is the 20 and 50 in the U.K. SP?
> 
> I know the British Pound is kind of weak compared to the Euro zone. The Aussie dollar is way overvalued due to the rush to sell off all the countries resources.
> 
> The Braumeisters here seem to be awfully expensive IMO.



The BM is value for money if you don't have the space for 3V and/or don't want to build your own 3V HERMS


----------



## swiggingpig

Tropical_Brews said:


> So what kind of price is the 20 and 50 in the U.K. SP?
> 
> I know the British Pound is kind of weak compared to the Euro zone. The Aussie dollar is way overvalued due to the rush to sell off all the countries resources.
> 
> The Braumeisters here seem to be awfully expensive IMO.



I've only looked at the 20L as I brew to fill 1 cornie and I like a selection of beers, I try to keep 6 different ones on the bar at any one time.

I've paid the Euro price at a reasonable exchange rate for Sterling taking into consideration the current strength of the against the . They are expensive and it's taken me a long time to get past the price of the unit, like many others I looked at building a 'copy' but realised that I would still spend a lot of money and time to end up with something that would be 'nearly' as good as the BM so I decided to 'bite the bullet' and buy one.

I currently have a 3V PID controlled RIMS system but changes here at home mean that I brew in my celler but don't really have the room to work safely and comfortably with it. Our weather here means that you're pretty much forced to brew indoors or in a shed/garage, my garage is detached and it's no fun brewing in there in winter.

As yeastfeast says, I no longer have the space for a 3V system, the BM allows me to continue with this great hobby without it being a chore to set-up, clean-up and pack-away each time in a cramped and confined area. So to me it is a worthwhile investment.

:icon_chickcheers:


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## Wimmig

swiggingpig said:


> I would really have liked to buy from Mark, he deserves the business, but I live in the UK and Speidel have told me that I must buy from the UK distributor
> 
> I would like to get hold of the rubber seal and the S/S bent pickup, as you say, they are useful additions to improve the BM. I'll drop him a PM and hopefully he's prepared to sell them to me and ship to the UK



I hold 0 doubt that if possible, Mark would be more than happy to assist you where possible.


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## MaltyHops

swiggingpig said:


> I would really have liked to buy from Mark, he deserves the business,
> but I live in the UK and ...


Would have been ironic to get a BM shipped from Germany to Oz, then back
to next door to where it cam from.


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## swiggingpig

*Update.*

BM ordered 31/5
BM arrives in UK 15/6
I go on vacation 16/6
I return to UK 30/6
Balance paid 2/7
BM delivered 6/7
Wife finds me jobs to keep me occupied until Saturday 21/7 !!!!!!

MHB/Mark is an absolute gent and very kindly agreed to allow me to buy the rubber seal and the S/S bent pickup and ship to the UK, what a star !!!

So after a long wait I finally managed my first brew on the BM, the seal and the pickup pipe worked perfectly. In my opinion the seal and pickup pipe are the 2 most useful/important accessories for the BM.

I waited until I had a full day to myself so as not to rush the first brew. Considering it was the first time I was working with unfamiliar equipment, it was one of the least stressful brew days I've had.

What a joy to use and how easy is it to clean !!! :icon_cheers: 

On my 3V PID RIMS system I would get around 72% brewhouse eff., first run out the BM gives me 77% eff. :super: !!!

I use whole hops and with a ss mesh filer that I attach to the pickup, I only had a little over 1 litre of dead space in the BM  

I'm sorry this post comes across a bit disjointed but I really like the BM and I have to agree with all other BM users that this bit of kit is the dogs danglies !!!!

If anyone out there is undecided about getting one, just buy it, you won't regret it :beer:


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## soundawake

I wish, I yearn, I crave for a BM.

Unfortunately my wedding is in April next year and the SWMBO has determined all money saved goes towards that. Come next May/June though, it will be mine. 

Oh yes, it will be mine.


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## glenwal

soundawake said:


> I wish, I yearn, I crave for a BM.
> 
> Unfortunately my wedding is in April next year and the SWMBO has determined all money saved goes towards that. Come next May/June though, it will be mine.
> 
> Oh yes, it will be mine.



Put it on the bridal registery. Who knows - you might have a bunch of mates who will go in together and get it for you.


----------



## Sethanon

davewaldo said:


> Seeing as this seems to be the main Braumeister thread I thought I should post this here so it can be added to the wealth of knowledge already collated.
> 
> Here is my stand I built for my 50L BM. If you'd like to read more, check out this thread.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dave.



I know this was posted awhile ago.... But I love that set up! it's awesome!


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## Dan Pratt

My 20Lt got its maiden run on Wednesday night after picking up the unit from MHB along with the DSGA recipe. *WOW!*   This system was smooth to use, operate and clean. Like everyone has said "You wont Regret it". 

(previously owned a 40lt urn and done biab with PID controller and brown pump for circulation)

Money well spent and here is why>>>

We have a 1 year old right now and i got the all clear for brewing wednesday night. What the wife didnt know was I planned another brew for friday(last night) because i couldnt wait to use it again. I got home at 5pm on Friday and the wife left for the gym, which put me on baby patrol. With the young bloke getting into everything now he can stand etc etc we put the water in and went and played for 15 mins while it got to strike temp.

beep beep....Malt pipe went in and I mashed in and did a 15 min hydration rest while i bathed the baby. When the boy was clothed i put the top filter on and started her up>>> here is where its efficiency shined like the stainless steel that it is>>

Feed baby, read a book to baby, changed a pooey nappy, got baby ready for bed, put baby to bed. wife come home and Im in the kitchen cleaning up, emptied bins, go to computer room for 20mins( loading brew into beersmith2, lol) had dinner with the wife, watched some TV...beep beep beep ( mind you i occasionally checked on the rig ) Lifted malt pipe and started sparge at around 8pm>>>

2 hrs later the wife come to the garage to say goodnight and asked what i was doing, i said making a beer, oh i thought you were cleaning the unit from wednesday, ok cool, goodnight.  

Sparge finished, boil commenced and finished, no chilled all by 11pm on a friday makes for a sweet brew night, everyones was happy!! :beer:


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## humulus

Pratty its the same reason i got my 20l,young fella running around near a sprial jet burner going full noise,fasinated by the flame and noise,was enough for me!!!!
My 20l has now done over 40 brews and going strong!!! expensive???hell yes!! worth it???? my oath!! :beer:


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## cliffo

Hi All,

I've just got a 50L Braumeister and currently have it sitting on an old desk with a height of about 690mm.

After a quick "dry" run of the system I've realised this height is going to be difficult to allow for easy removal of the malt pipe when it is full of grain.

I'm thinking a possible solution might be to use some form of scissor lift trolley as a brew rig to allow the height to be lowered for easy mash in/malt pipe lifting duties and then raised at the end of the boil for gravity chilling through my plate chiller.

Has anyone else employed such a "system" or is my idea potentially not a plausible solution?

Cheers,
cliffo


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## Thefatdoghead

cliffo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've just got a 50L Braumeister and currently have it sitting on an old desk with a height of about 690mm.
> 
> After a quick "dry" run of the system I've realised this height is going to be difficult to allow for easy removal of the malt pipe when it is full of grain.
> 
> I'm thinking a possible solution might be to use some form of scissor lift trolley as a brew rig to allow the height to be lowered for easy mash in/malt pipe lifting duties and then raised at the end of the boil for gravity chilling through my plate chiller.
> 
> Has anyone else employed such a "system" or is my idea potentially not a plausible solution?
> 
> Cheers,
> cliffo


I use 2 pulley to save my back etc. Comes up nice and easy using pulleys.


----------



## Batz

cliffo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've just got a 50L Braumeister and currently have it sitting on an old desk with a height of about 690mm.
> 
> After a quick "dry" run of the system I've realised this height is going to be difficult to allow for easy removal of the malt pipe when it is full of grain.
> 
> I'm thinking a possible solution might be to use some form of scissor lift trolley as a brew rig to allow the height to be lowered for easy mash in/malt pipe lifting duties and then raised at the end of the boil for gravity chilling through my plate chiller.
> 
> Has anyone else employed such a "system" or is my idea potentially not a plausible solution?
> 
> Cheers,
> cliffo




You need only to fit either a cube or your fermenter under the tap. Cut the legs off that old desk.

Batz


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## sillyboybrybry

wow. So I am looking to go the 50l brau and thought I would have a quick peruse of this thread.
hA! Quick! Sure was a peruse I skipped to the end after a while.
I am still super keen. Probably going halves with some one who is also keen.
Is there anyone in Brisbane or surrounds with one that would be willing to let a couple of guys check it out in action?


----------



## leosardinha

First of all I would like to thank all that has contributed over thread.

I've know this thread for about 6 months and it definitely made me make my decision into buying this amazing system.

I've read all the braumesiter threads in here and also at the Homebrewtalk.

I have a direct fire 3 vessel Keg system in Brazil but as I brew alone, I was getting tired or lazy to wash a ton of things(Specially the heavy kegs) after a 8 hour brewday.

So I took advantage of being living temporally in Europe to buy it for about 30% the price I would pay in Brazil.

I still have some long months until I go back home for good and will be finally able to brew on it, but this thread has helped me to control my anxiety hehe

I have a couple questions:

1) I bought the 50L version and I am planning to brew mostly with the shorter malt pipe, has anyone videos or pictures of their brews with the shorter malt pipe? I haven't found it anywhere...

2) What is the height between the top of the kettle to the heating rod on the 50L braumeister, the reason is I am planning to get a custom made hop spider from arbor fabricating.

thanks to all!


----------



## suchidog

Braumeisters selling on ebay $2202 for a 20L and $3255 for a 50L.

Not sure on postage or an Australian power plug

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sop=3&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=braumeister&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sop%3D3%26_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3Dbraumeister%26_arr%3D1


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## Liam_snorkel

Hmmm wonder if ill be able to hide my next tax return from the minister for finance


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## doon

So wouldn't you have to pay gst as it over 1000 bringing it to 2420 before postage. I don't see the saving


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## tavas

doon said:


> So wouldn't you have to pay gst as it over 1000 bringing it to 2420 before postage. I don't see the saving


Yep, plus postage and no local support.


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## doon

Grain and grape have 10% of braumiesters till 1pm tomorrow! !


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## suchidog

doon said:


> Grain and grape have 10% of braumiesters till 1pm tomorrow! !


Great deal! Reckon Craftbrewer would match it?


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## doon

Dont know reckon you should ask and see hey


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Paid $1700 for mine from Germany 80 Euro postage straight through customs no gst, pump packed in after 4 brews Speidel posted out a new pump as soon as I informed them,great service and great saving.
Those being sold on eBay from France should be ex vat so that is almost 20% off the listed price.


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## Edak

Build your own! Mine cost me about $1100 and I personally think it's better than the original! (Insert smart arse smiley face here) (insert tongue in cheek smiley face here)


----------



## Dan Pratt

Edak said:


> Build your own! Mine cost me about $1100 and I personally think it's better than the original! (Insert smart arse smiley face here) (insert tongue in cheek smiley face here)


and how many hours did you work on the rig? im guessing more than 50 and if you time is considered a trade @ $50 per hour...cost less.....really? h34r:


----------



## Not For Horses

Pratty1 said:


> and how many hours did you work on the rig? im guessing more than 50 and if you time is considered a trade @ $50 per hour...cost less.....really? h34r:


If that is the case, I pay about 500 bucks for less than two cartons of beer every time I brew.

Interesting read this thread though, how the thinking has evolved over the years from horribly expensive and no one should own one ever right through to they are amazing and everyone should own or clone one!


----------



## nu_brew

and how many hours did you work on the rig? im guessing more than 50 and if you time is considered a trade @ $50 per hour...cost less.....really? h34r:
sadly the community services sector isn't paying anywhere near $50 an hour. Before, after or during tax!


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## Edak

What about engineer rates? Never shall I brew beer again! A hobby must not be looked at as work otherwise they are too expensive. Think of it as this; using your theory's I was being paid 30 bucks an hour to do something I enjoy for 50 hours...


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## WitWonder

Just wanted to post some love for the Braumeister. Fired up the 50L for the first time last weekend and I'm impressed. So easy, so much less stuffing around and, hopefully, better beer. :super:


----------



## bullsneck

I want to pass this story on because retailers should be applauded when they conduct business like this.

We did a bit of a monster brew day last Thursday. Brewed up a RIS and an Oatmeal. During the sparge we noticed we still had a lot of sugar still in the wort. Cool, let's do a third batch. I have a pack of Belle Saison in the fridge. We'll do a Saison Stout. No kettles left, I'll use the Braumeister.

I go to turn it on and it just won't. Display is flicking and refusing to fire up. I'm pretty nervous at this stage. The BM is dead!

I shoot off an email to John @ Grain and Grape in Yarraville. I had purchased the BM from there almost two years ago.

Within 10 minutes I had a reply. He said he would email Ralph from Spiedel and find out what he can do to help me out. 5 minutes passes and he had called me informing me that there's a replacement display and control box being sent from Germany that afternoon. (Ralph deserves some credit here, too. We worked out the time difference and he would have had to read and replied to the email from John at 5:45am!)

My problem was solved within 20 minutes! Unreal.

The after sales service at Grape and Grain is amazing. Hats off to John and the team. I'll be back brewing in no time!


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## Mr. No-Tip

Ralph is the tits. Replaced both my pumps no q's asked after bad pumping.


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## charlie_o

Got a BM after too many K&Ks and then 20+ AG BIABs with crown 20 L.

Best thing I have ever bought. Admittedly went Harvey's with a mate so reduced the cost.

But, if you are thinking about it, stop thinking. 

Do it. 

Repeatability and the time saving And the cleaning ease etc makes it so much better than an urn. 

Buy it and thank me (and all the other posters) later.


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## thedragon

I agree with everything that Charlie has said about the BM: although I would, given that we went halves in one. 

From my experience the beauty of the BM is the simplicity of it... how easy and stress free it makes brew day. 

Once you've got your system dialled in, it's as simple as programming in your mash schedule and hop addition times, adding your strike water volume and then going with the flow. You can then spend more time doing stuff around the house, or more time planning better beer. 

Until I owned one (or 1/2 of one as it is), I thought that BMs were for wankers. I'm now a happy wanker. 

Buy one. You won't look back.


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## Bribie G

I wonder how one of those would go to produce wort for a Williamswarn Personal Brewing setup?


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## pedleyr

thedragon said:


> Until I owned one (or 1/2 of one as it is), I thought that BMs were for wankers. I'm now a happy wanker.


I'm yet to meet an unhappy wanker.


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## dicko

Bribie G said:


> I wonder how one of those would go to produce wort for a Williamswarn Personal Brewing setup?


I believe that the BM used as it is meant to be, produces quality wort for any style of fermenter.
After the hot side you are on your own with the cold side as Speidel have no control with how you as an individual treat the fermentation.

I have a BM and I ferment in a plastic fermenter but with a deal of repeatability that I did not experience with my old systems....yes more than one :lol: h34r:


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## wide eyed and legless

Bribie G said:


> I wonder how one of those would go to produce wort for a Williamswarn Personal Brewing setup?


 I believe that wobbly and someone else uses the BM to make the wort before putting it through the Williamsworn machine, when they aren't brewing they are wondering what the poor people are doing.


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## pk.sax

wide eyed and legless said:


> I believe that wobbly and someone else uses the BM to make the wort before putting it through the Williamsworn machine, when they aren't brewing they are wondering what the poor people are doing.


Trying to seal our weldless kettles. Obviously.


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## dicko

wide eyed and legless said:


> I believe that wobbly and someone else uses the BM to make the wort before putting it through the Williamsworn machine, when they aren't brewing they are wondering what the poor people are doing.


 :lol: :lol:


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## wobbly

Poor People - Please explain!!!

Doesn't everyone worth their salt have a BM and a WW!!!

Cheers

Wobbly


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## wide eyed and legless

Ha ha, only the ones who are wondering what the poor people are doing


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## Cervantes

Does the WilliamsWarn produce wort or is it purely a fermentation and carbonation system?

It's unclear on their website.

Okay, I found it in their literature.

Sort of.

As mentioned though it would make a great companion piece for the Braumeister.


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## dicko

Cervantes said:


> Does the WilliamsWarn produce wort or is it purely a fermentation and carbonation system?
> 
> It's unclear on their website.


AFAIK it ferments wort with the ability to carbonate it and serve it as well or you can apparently buy an attachment CPBF as well.
You still need to put wort in it to be fermented. Some use extract as it is recommended from the manufacturer or you could make wort by BM, 3V BIAB etc and add it to the machine.


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## proudscum

proudscum said:


> Am waiting on mine to come direct as we speak.Two very small children means my v3 mash system has been sitting in the shed in parts for the last 4 yrs(that and working 3 jobs doing renovations and study)I will be able to make consistently good beers with very little fuss in my laundry with the door locked for child safety and not be dicking around in the shed for hours mainly as the shed will be demolished in the coming weeks.Being a fine dinning Chef i like a process that can be repeated,dont have the knowledge for wiring ,CPL etc.This product has really got me amped up about brewing again,Have cleaned all my equipment ,looking at buying a mill
> (tried to get in on a bulk buy and missed out)bags of grain/stir plate /filters etc etc.Joined this forum got 3 new varieties of Hops in the ground.God am i the reincarnate of BIG KEV..im excited.
> 
> Just my 10cents as there are no longer 1,2,5cent pieces in NZ.And yes the capital of NZ is not 2Cents its Wellington.


Nearly 4 yrs on and am about to use my Bruameister as a HLT in a 3V HERMS pilot brewery for work.Looking at high gravity brewing for 50lt packaged one off kegs(silly,extreme,funky brews).Going to be playing with toys from Newera https://www.newerabrewing.com.au/ including the brewbucket and the 17 gallon fermenter in the very near future.Nice when your hobby becomes your job,when you do your hobby at work.


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## RobB

Bumping my own three year old post :huh:



Malty Cultural said:


> .........There has been some chat regarding smaller batches in the 50 litre model, but what would be the smallest batch you could do in the 20 litre? I brew for my 12 litre kegs, so I would want to finish with about 13 litres plus trub at the end of the boil. What is the minimum volume of water required to run through the mash? I'd like to avoid a three hour boil to hit my target volume!
> 
> With my batch size, the amount of grain I use is only about 2.8kg for a 1.050 brew. Would this be sufficient to form a good grain bed in the 20 litre unit?


It looks like there is now a short malt pipe for the 20L. http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/FYNIIQWV%20braumeister/7BRAU+SHORT+MALT+PIPE+20L


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## thedragon

Malty Cultural said:


> Bumping my own three year old post :huh:
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like there is now a short malt pipe for the 20L. http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/FYNIIQWV%20braumeister/7BRAU+SHORT+MALT+PIPE+20L


I love my BM 20, especially the simplicity, but while i use 9.5 L kegs, I'm not sure if I'd want to do a 10L batch. I suppose that it could shorten the brew day slightly, but it reckon I'd rather do a 20 L batch and fill two of the little kegs.


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## bear09

Pratty1 said:


> My 20Lt got its maiden run on Wednesday night after picking up the unit from MHB along with the DSGA recipe. *WOW!*   This system was smooth to use, operate and clean. Like everyone has said "You wont Regret it".
> 
> (previously owned a 40lt urn and done biab with PID controller and brown pump for circulation)
> 
> Money well spent and here is why>>>
> 
> We have a 1 year old right now and i got the all clear for brewing wednesday night. What the wife didnt know was I planned another brew for friday(last night) because i couldnt wait to use it again. I got home at 5pm on Friday and the wife left for the gym, which put me on baby patrol. With the young bloke getting into everything now he can stand etc etc we put the water in and went and played for 15 mins while it got to strike temp.
> 
> beep beep....Malt pipe went in and I mashed in and did a 15 min hydration rest while i bathed the baby. When the boy was clothed i put the top filter on and started her up>>> here is where its efficiency shined like the stainless steel that it is>>
> 
> Feed baby, read a book to baby, changed a pooey nappy, got baby ready for bed, put baby to bed. wife come home and Im in the kitchen cleaning up, emptied bins, go to computer room for 20mins( loading brew into beersmith2, lol) had dinner with the wife, watched some TV...beep beep beep ( mind you i occasionally checked on the rig ) Lifted malt pipe and started sparge at around 8pm>>>
> 
> 2 hrs later the wife come to the garage to say goodnight and asked what i was doing, i said making a beer, oh i thought you were cleaning the unit from wednesday, ok cool, goodnight.
> 
> Sparge finished, boil commenced and finished, no chilled all by 11pm on a friday makes for a sweet brew night, everyones was happy!! :beer:


hahahaha this story has made my day. I started this thread too and am very proud of where it got to. Cheers all. Go BM!!!!!!!!


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