# Nelson Sauvin Smash



## petesbrew (8/10/10)

Doing my first smash sometime in the next week. Just after something simple yet tasty for summer by the pool.

Nelson's Deckchair Ale (23L batch)
5 kg. JW Traditional Ale
15 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 %AA) boiled 60 min
15 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 %AA) boiled 30 min 
15 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 %AA) boiled 10 min
Yeast : Safale US-05 or Coopers PA culture
IBU = 45 ABV = 5%

I know it's pretty simple but if anyone has any suggestions/criticism (upping or lowering the hops), they're more than welcome.
Cheers
Pete


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## MarkBastard (8/10/10)

Why 30 and 10 minutes? Why not 20 and 5?


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## jbirbeck (8/10/10)

petesbrew said:


> Doing my first smash sometime in the next week. Just after something simple yet tasty for summer by the pool.
> 
> Nelson's Deckchair Ale (23L batch)
> 5 kg. JW Traditional Ale
> ...



up the late hops to 1g a litre otherwise you may be disappointed with the flavour/aroma even with the NS strength. 

Use US 05 otherwise the fruitiness of the Coopers yeast will conflict with the NS and back off the bittering addition. 

NS can be a bit harsh in my experience and I don't think there is going to be the malt guts in a SMaSH type beer to balance that level of IBU. i did one with a lower IBU using Munich and it was too bitter for me and I do love a bitter beer. I'd roll the IBU back to close to 30 and use the hops late. It will be a lot smoother and more of a summer drinker by the pool.


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## petesbrew (8/10/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> up the late hops to 1g a litre otherwise you may be disappointed with the flavour/aroma even with the NS strength.
> 
> Use US 05 otherwise the fruitiness of the Coopers yeast will conflict with the NS and back off the bittering addition.
> 
> NS can be a bit harsh in my experience and I don't think there is going to be the malt guts in a SMaSH type beer to balance that level of IBU. i did one with a lower IBU using Munich and it was too bitter for me and I do love a bitter beer. I'd roll the IBU back to close to 30 and use the hops late. It will be a lot smoother and more of a summer drinker by the pool.


Thanks Root.
I'll save the Coopers for something else.
I saw Ross' recipe somewhere in the database, so I might relook at that one.
edit: also cheers, Mark bastard.
edit 2: Ross's recipe. I'll just follow this. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=20518&st=0 Cheers Ross for sharing


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## tallie (8/10/10)

petesbrew said:


> Thanks Root.
> I'll save the Coopers for something else.
> I saw Ross' recipe somewhere in the database, so I might relook at that one.
> edit: also cheers, Mark bastard.
> edit 2: Ross's recipe. I'll just follow this. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=20518&st=0 Cheers Ross for sharing



+1 for Ross' recipe. I brewed about half dozen batches of it last summer playing around with different hops, malt & yeast. All of them turned out to be very drinkable summer beers! :icon_drunk: 

Cheers,
tallie


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/10/10)

Increase your later hops and dry hop some, cut back on the 30m hops. I have a Nelson Sauvin dominated recipe on the recipedb which worked out really well, as well as a citra SMaSH ale.

What I'd do is use an increase amount of 60 minute hops for the bitterness you need to overcome NS wine flavour, and then increase at 15 minutes to give that real punchy flavour, and dry hop as the aroma of NS is fantastic. I'm brewing as I type (well waiting for water to come up to temp) and NS will get a feature in this beer as well (rainy day and home from work in Brisneyland)

I would also use an amber coloured malt. Not sure of the specs that JW traditional malt has, so can't comment. My NS recipe used pale malt, which is the same as my citra SMaSH was very pale and quaffable, though I think it lacked the depth needed. If it ends up over bitter for your tastes, leave it a couple of months and it will mellow. These beers are like white wine - they are made to be drunk cold in a hot summer.

Final note - both Citra and NS (IMO) are very similar in nature.

Good luck - I hope this works out well for you. I like NS as a hop though I have found that it polarises people, per Petesbrew's comment.


Goomba


edit: to make sense


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## Josh (8/10/10)

Playing devils advocate... If you just want a summer quaffer for around the pool, I dunno if I'd bother upping the late additions from the original recipe. I'd probably make them 15 mins and flameout. Then dry hop a little as well. But if you don't want anything overwhelming it looks pretty good to me.

That said, I made a Mid-Summer Ale with Topaz and used 90g of it throughout: 20g @ 60m, 50g @ cube, 20g @ dry. OG was in the order of 1.037. Hops weren't over the top and I would consider doing this again for a pool quaffer.


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## Nick JD (8/10/10)

I would drop the whole 45g of NS in at 15 minutes giving 34 IBUs, but that's just me.


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## thanme (8/10/10)

+1 to Nick_JD, except I'd probably a little more later for aroma too.


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## schooey (8/10/10)

I like your original recipe, Pete, but I'd throw in another 15g at flameout. I really like NS and I use it a bit. I find that evening out the additions gives a smoother, better balanced bitterness than just one or two additions. I've also found that a lot of NS in dry hop leads to a really grassy flavour after three or four weeks in the keg, hence the addition at flame out not in dry hop.... although the three or four weeks isn't usually a problem with NS ales around here...  

If you want a real summer quaffer, ferment it around 15C with Swiss Lager yeast an CC for a few weeks.... :icon_drool2:


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## MVZOOM (8/10/10)

WOW! I'm drinking pretty much that exact recipe ATM, except I used Pils malt. Coopers yeast recultured too... Add some more additions, post 30 mins and it's fantastic!


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## MVZOOM (8/10/10)

BTW, my OG was 1068 and at 58IBU.


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## Nick JD (9/10/10)

Another thing after using a fair bit of NS is I find (like a lot of these mega hops) it can be over used. I reckon there's a "sweet spot" of just enough, but not too much - where it tastes like great beer with hints of stone fruit and a sauv blanc aftertaste - but not like someone dropped a can of Golden Circle Fruit Punch in your keg. 

One of my favourite uses for NS is for a sole 60 minute addition in a pale smash lager - heaps of the flavour comes through, and is an indication of how persistent this hop can be.

It can get on your nerves if over used.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (9/10/10)

Nick JD said:


> Another thing after using a fair bit of NS is I find (like a lot of these mega hops) it can be over used. I reckon there's a "sweet spot" of just enough, but not too much - where it tastes like great beer with hints of stone fruit and a sauv blanc aftertaste - but not like someone dropped a can of Golden Circle Fruit Punch in your keg.
> 
> One of my favourite uses for NS is for a sole 60 minute addition in a pale smash lager - heaps of the flavour comes through, and is an indication of how persistent this hop can be.
> 
> It can get on your nerves if over used.



+1 - I think too much can be noticeably yuk


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## petesbrew (11/10/10)

I'd almost forgotten I posted this topic.
Cheers for all the opinions & imputs, I'm still a noob at devising AG recipes.

I've got 5kg Trad already cracked for it. It's just a matter of how to utilise the NS. As I've been overhopping my American Ales recently - and they've been awesome  - it'll be good to have something that's a bit more subdued, but with enough hops to make you go "mmm nice".

Schooey, I do have a spare Swiss Lager sachet waiting to use - thanks for the idea.
Hopefully I'll have this one going soon.
Pete


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## Bill F (11/10/10)

petesbrew said:


> > I'd almost forgotten I posted this topic.
> > Cheers for all the opinions & imputs, I'm still a noob at devising AG recipes.
> >
> > I've got 5kg Trad already cracked for it. It's just a matter of how to utilise the NS. As I've been overhopping my American Ales recently - and they've been awesome  - it'll be good to have something that's a bit more subdued, but with enough hops to make you go "mmm nice".
> ...



I recomend the lager treatment to. My latest experiment with Nelson Sauvin involved splitting the batch and fermenting half with SAFALE and half with Californina lager. The californian lager cleaned up very nicely and remarkably quickly while the ale has a sweetness (and ok maybe my mash temperature could be toned down and maybe the ale would have liked a warmer ferment) along the lines of what I think some one else had referred to as "pineapple punch".


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## petesbrew (16/10/10)

Okay, I brewed it up today, as Per Ross' recipe, but with a few mods in the grain bill

*Galeforce Ale (23L batch)*
5 kg. JW Traditional Ale
250g JW Amber Ale
15 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 .%AA) boiled 80min
15 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 %AA) boiled 20 min 
20 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 %AA) boiled 5 min
30 g. Nelson Sauvin (Pellets, 11.5 %AA) flameout 
US-05 Yeast


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## Nevalicious (20/10/10)

petesbrew said:


> Okay, I brewed it up today, as Per Ross' recipe, but with a few mods in the grain bill
> 
> *Galeforce Ale (23L batch)*
> 5 kg. JW Traditional Ale
> ...



Pete, I have 100g of flowers (dont wanna use all of them) I plan on using in a partial (coopers pale ale kit goop, 2kg BB Pale, 500g Munich 1 (I think))

Whilst its obviously nowhere near the same recipe, I was more interested in your hopping schedule. I have heard NS can be overpowering if over used...

Did you No-Chill or did you chill as per Ross' recipe. Steep for 20 mins then chill??

Cheers

Tyler


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## petesbrew (20/10/10)

Nevalicious said:


> Pete, I have 100g of flowers (dont wanna use all of them) I plan on using in a partial (coopers pale ale kit goop, 2kg BB Pale, 500g Munich 1 (I think))
> 
> Whilst its obviously nowhere near the same recipe, I was more interested in your hopping schedule. I have heard NS can be overpowering if over used...
> 
> ...


I no chilled. I added the final hops in the fermenter and racked the wort onto it.

Good luck with yours Tyler. I'll say you'll only need 1/2 of em.


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## Nevalicious (20/10/10)

Sounds good. Have heard lots and lots of good reports on Nelson Sauvin. Big Kev excited to brew this one up :icon_cheers:


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## levin_ae92 (21/10/10)

Why not just 60min and flame out? [email protected] 60 then dump the rest in at zero and chuck the lid on!!


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## hoohaaman (21/10/10)

levin_ae92 said:


> Why not just 60min and flame out? [email protected] 60 then dump the rest in at zero and chuck the lid on!!




Easy to overdo NS.I prefer adding smaller additions at constant intervals.

My usually hopping schedule for NS is:
30 mins
20 mins 
10 mins
00 mins

for 25-40 IBU,makes a more smooth,rounded flavour. I personally found earlier additions made the bitterness too harsh.


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## petesbrew (2/11/10)

petesbrew said:


> Okay, I brewed it up today, as Per Ross' recipe, but with a few mods in the grain bill
> 
> *Galeforce Ale (23L batch)*
> 5 kg. JW Traditional Ale
> ...



Bottled it on sunday night OG=1050, FG = 1006.
Tastes pretty good. Very cloudy. I was going to give it a gelatin treatment, but in the end I couldn't be arsed.
Boss is retiring in a couple of weeks, so this will be ready for a few after work beers with the lads.


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## petesbrew (11/11/10)

Under a fortnight since bottling, but I tried one last night - I'm impressed!
Decent Bitterness, lots of NS Flavour up front, and it will be perfect for the coming summer.
Cheers to Ross' recipe for the hop schedule. Just perfect.


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## speedie (12/11/10)

Formulation for Dusty Nelson
Target knockout volume of 22 litres
Target gravity 1060 or 15 degrees Plato
Based on system extract efficiency of 70% 
Desired Plato 15 degrees 
Kgs = 15 x 22 / 70 = 4.71 K/gs
Potential alcohol @ 75% attenuation = 1060 1010 / 6.6 %av

Grain bill 4.25K/gs of pale malt (Kirin)
.112 K/gs of wheat malt JW
.336 K/gs of crystal malt JW
.022 K/gs of black malt JW
.112 K/gs of rye wyermann malt JW 

Mash water 10 litres from 2.0 litres to one K/g of grain
Sparge water 19.6 liters of scheme water
let it stand overnight to liberate chlorine and next day adjust Ph with food grade phosphoric acid to 5.5 Ph
This will be a stiff mash and must be stirred during steps
Heat water to 56 degrees and dough in hold @ 53 degrees for 20 Mins
Raise to 64 degrees and hold for 60 Mins
Raise to 71 degrees and hold for 10 Mins
Raise to 81 degrees and transfer to sparge vessel
Run to kettle when particulate has cleared
Sparge with ph adjusted water @ 77 degrees

Boil time one hour after collection of all wort into kettle

Hop selection 
22 Grms nelson sauvin @11.5 % AA in boil for 45 Mins 
35 Grms nelson sauvin @11.5 % AA in boil for 10 Mins 

Yeast selection US 05 @ 76% attenuation
Ferment @ 16 degrees for approximately 5-6 days 
Transfer off yeast after completion of fermentation into Co2 flushed fermenter and add 35 Grms nelson sauvin @11.5 %


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## petesbrew (13/11/10)

Fng hot weekend, the pool is clean, and a Grolsch swingtop of the NS smash is in the fridge ready to go. Does life get any better?


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## petesbrew (15/11/11)

Bumping up an old thread.
I'm planning this for next week but with a couple of alterations.
I'm going to make a double batch (or as much as my mash tun can handle), bittered with NS, but when I split between the fermenters I'm hopping one with NS, and the other with Boadicea. Haven't really heard much about this hop and i'm just going to find out by experimentation how it turns out. 
Oh, and the boadicea batch might have a farmhouse yeast in it, screwing things up a bit more.

Nelson Sauvin Saison Double Batch

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 43.00 Wort Size (L): 43.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.50
Anticipated OG: 1.041 Plato: 10.319
Anticipated EBC: 14.9
Anticipated IBU: 44.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
93.3 7.00 kg. Pale Ale Malt (2-row) Australia 1.037 5
6.7 0.50 kg. JWM Crystal 140 Australia 1.037 147

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
37.39 g. Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.70 38.0 60 min.
18.70 g. Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.70 6.4 20 min.
10 g. Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.70 0.0 Dry Hop	1st fermenter
10g Boadicea dry hopped in 2nd fermenter

Yeast
-----
WY 1187 Ringwood or US-05 1st fermenter
White Labs WLP565 Belgian Saison I	2nd fermenter (yeast is actually Ruhk's Unknown Farmhouse Ale yeast)


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/11/11)

Try it with 15 IBU at 30m, and the rest of your IBU at 10 minutes.

Yummmmmm..........

Goomba

edit: if you must do a 60m addition, choose another hop that's less harsh - Citra, Galaxy or get a low AA% hop for some softer bitterness. Love Nelson, but not at 60m.


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## bignath (15/11/11)

Yeah, id do that too.

You'll REALLY REALLY notice that 60min addition.


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## petesbrew (15/11/11)

Big Nath said:


> Yeah, id do that too.
> 
> You'll REALLY REALLY notice that 60min addition.


Hmm, it worked okay last time... The initial recipe was only a 15g 60min addition (high AA% hop & all that)

So with a 30min addition only, is a 30min boil fine, or does the wort require the full 60min?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/11/11)

petesbrew said:


> Hmm, it worked okay last time... The initial recipe was only a 15g 60min addition (high AA% hop & all that)
> 
> So with a 30min addition only, is a 30min boil fine, or does the wort require the full 60min?



Officially - you need a 60 min boil. 

Unofficially (from my experience that means), so long as you use a base malt with minimal diacetyl or DMS precursors - in my case Bairds Perle Ale Malt, you can (and I have done so) get away with a 30-40m boil.

Goomba


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## petesbrew (15/11/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Officially - you need a 60 min boil.
> 
> Unofficially (from my experience that means), so long as you use a base malt with minimal diacetyl or DMS precursors - in my case Bairds Perle Ale Malt, you can (and I have done so) get away with a 30-40m boil.
> 
> Goomba


Cheers Goomba.

60min it is. I'll rethink the 60min addition, maybe dial it back a touch.


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## seamad (15/11/11)

I've tried some first wort hops ( modified to suit biab) with the last couple of brews. Throw bittering hops in at mashout after lifting bag (76C) . Bittering usually @ 20 IBU then lot of 10 minute to get it up to 35-38, plus 0 minute and keg hops.
Whether it does make a difference I don't know yet as not enough brews with this method.
Will need to do some extensive research / drinking :lol:


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