# Ss Mesh Biab



## matr (18/11/10)

So I threw up a picture of a SS mesh bag I have made in another thread and had some interest. 

I don't know why I went for this option. Maybe so I don't have to worry about burning a voile bag on the element or maybe just to be different. I like making stuff so I thought this was a good idea. The cost didn't worry me & if it did I would have just bought a voile bag.

So the details are;

SS mesh 310 micron aperture with 210 micron SS wire. Purchased from Metal Mesh - Metal Mesh Cost was $70 inc GST for 1m x 1.25m. There should be enough to construct 2 or 1 a decent size hop basket (which I'm yet to make).

Mesh was adhered using Dow Corning 732 silicon - This is FDA approved. The only one I could find. & is good for the temp ranges. Silicon cost $9.

I first made the cylinder which was fairly simple. Then I made the base, a circle which I then made into a cone (by cutting to the centre and overlapping then adhereing). I then cut small sections along the side of the cone (about 1cm) and bent them up. This was then inserted into the cylinder to form the base. More Silicon was used. Hopefully this all makes sense!!

I cut a ring out of MDF (yes I know it's not waterproof) for the top and secured using screws & washers. 

A thermowell was siliconed to the inside wall of the basket and can be seen below in the pics. The thermowell is acctualy a beerbelly fermenter thermowell.

It was quite fiddily to make but hopefully worth it in the end. I have not used it yet. I also have not done a batch using voile so can't make that comparison either. It may be a complete failure but I don't care. 

Will update this thread once used.

Here are the pics.

















Cheers, Mat.


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## Acasta (18/11/10)

looks cool. Easier then a bag. You need a way to mount it half out of the tun for sparging. I've seen someone using steel rods, but theirs was not mesh. Anyway. Nice.


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## Silo Ted (18/11/10)

Nice one. 

Silicone is holding it together, that's nifty. Good to find a product that adheres to both food and temp standards. Strength might be of some concern when you have 10 kilos to lift. The idea could be to find a saucepan that will allow the basket to sit inside (it might be more the case of finding a saucepan first then making a basket to size), then drill really big holes in saucepan. 

I think cleaning out the grain is going to be a bitch. That's where voile is fairly easy.


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## husky (18/11/10)

Acasta said:


> looks cool. Easier then a bag. You need a way to mount it half out of the tun for sparging. I've seen someone using steel rods, but theirs was not mesh. Anyway. Nice.




http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=49404

Same sort of idea, however the op's design is able to be made by most people and im guessing will remove the need completly for the voile bag.


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## joshuahardie (18/11/10)

Great post.
I have a 'crab cooker' pot from boots camping, which comes with an inner pot, which has large holes in it. great for lifting out shellfish but not grain.

I think that lining my inner pot with this mesh might be the ticket.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (18/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> <snip>
> 
> Strength might be of some concern when you have 10 kilos to lift.
> 
> <snip>



People keep saying that about voile and stitching. They are - in my experience - invariably wrong. Of course, there are none so blind as those who will not sew. 

Good silicon sealant, properly applied, is amazingly strong stuff - particularly when it is applied over a large area such as OP's basket join is.

I really like this idea - partly because TB and I spoke of a similar thing a few years ago over a few hundred beers, but never got around to doing anything about it - but also because it is an option to voile for those who love stainless or have some aversion to curtains.


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## pk.sax (18/11/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> Of course, there are none so blind as those who will not sew.



Hey!!!! I didn't sew. Now, is it a requirement for brewing that we learn how to sew!?! &;&#}%#^

Back OT: that looks sweet mate, and for the cost.... Mmmm. Recirculated single pot. End of the cloudy biab worts


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## Thirsty Boy (18/11/10)

practicalfool said:


> Hey!!!! I didn't sew. Now, is it a requirement for brewing that we learn how to sew!?! &;&#}%#^
> 
> Back OT: that looks sweet mate, and for the cost.... Mmmm. Recirculated single pot. End of the cloudy biab worts



If you can r-circulate that thing and get clear wort, then you can re-circulate voile and get clear wort. The reason the OP has used this stuff... is that there is fundamentally no difference between it and voile. Why would you be able to do something with one and not the other?

This stuff is shiny and will give little chubbies to those who like stainless or hate plastic (except for the silicon) - and while I like it, think its cool, and kinda want one... I don't actually see any advantage to it over the voile, with the exception of removing the faint possibility of the often talked about but quite rarely seen "bag melt"

Spills and I did discuss this years ago -- but my end of the discussion involved fairly frequent use of the word "pointless"....


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## ekul (18/11/10)

matr said:


> SS mesh 310 micron aperture with 210 micron SS wire. Purchased from Metal Mesh - Metal Mesh Cost was $70 inc GST for 1m x 1.25m. There should be enough to construct 2 or 1 a decent size hop basket (which I'm yet to make).



Hey matt, if you wash out the grain after the mash you can just use your stainless 'bag' for the hops. I've done exactly the same thing with my voille bag before to great effect. I don't bother anymore though, i find the hops help the trub settle, especially with flowers, but each to their own.

Looks pretty cool!


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## Silo Ted (20/11/10)

Mat, are you giving this a run over the weekend ?


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## matr (20/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Mat, are you giving this a run over the weekend ?



Nah mate prob just test the kettle this week end. Prob won't put a brew on for another few weeks as I gotta go to China for work. 

Hops anyone? 

Thanks for everyones comments too. I know there may not be any real advantage over voile but I did it coz I can. 

Cheers, Mat


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## Silo Ted (20/11/10)

Enjoy the Tsing Tsao over there :icon_vomit: 

When you get back, and you want to do some tests with your basket against voile, let me know, I should have plenty of fabric laying around if you can get someone to sew it up for you. Will charge you postage only, should only be about $2. 

Interested to see how this goes. Have a good trip.


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## matr (27/12/10)

Finally got around to using the setup.

Just "mashed in" and it's currently sitting @ 66C.

This is the recipe;

4.10 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (3.9 EBC) Grain 85.42 % 

0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (59.1 EBC) Grain 8.33 % 

0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.17 % 

0.10 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.08 % 

17.00 gm Bravo [14.30 %] (60 min) Hops 28.5 IBU 

15.00 gm Cascade [7.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops - 

20.00 gm Cascade [7.50 %] (20 min) Hops 10.7 IBU 

1 Pkgs Sierra Ale Yeast (Proculture #Pro-10) Yeast-Ale 

My first BIAB & first AG.

Will let you know how it goes. Fingers crossed it works ok.

Cheers, Mat.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (27/12/10)

Good luck, at least you will not get white anted. (Is that even a word)
GB


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## Zizzle (27/12/10)

Ah, I missed this thread earlier. I had the same idea for brewbot mk2 only with silver solder instead of silicon. Mainly because I want to run an automated stirrer and not have to worry about a bag tangling. Haven't tried soldering the mesh yet tho.

Good luck with the first brew.


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## browndog (27/12/10)

I would be a bit concerned about how well the silicon will hang on to the mesh when lifting the bag out, there will be quite a bit of weight on it until most of the wort drains though. Silver solder would be the go.

cheers

Browndog


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## matr (27/12/10)

browndog said:


> I would be a bit concerned about how well the silicon will hang on to the mesh when lifting the bag out, there will be quite a bit of weight on it until most of the wort drains though. Silver solder would be the go.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



4.8kg of grain & didn't even look like being a problem. Worked very well.  

The silicon is basically hanging onto itself with the mesh inbetween. Solder would be nice but Silicon is cheap and it works.


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## browndog (27/12/10)

matr said:


> 4.8kg of grain & didn't even look like being a problem. Worked very well.
> 
> The silicon is basically hanging onto itself with the mesh inbetween. Solder would be nice but Silicon is cheap and it works.



Good to hear that it is strong enough. Silicon is amazing stuff.


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## Thirsty Boy (27/12/10)

Excellent, make sure to let us know how your day went.

Totally aside from the pretty stainless jigger.... Good luck with your first AG brew day


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## matr (27/12/10)

First AG done... B) 

All went fairly well. Stress free..

Preboil SG was 1038 (adjusted) from an expected 1042

Post boil SG was 1043 from an expected 1052.

I think my low SG problems come from my volumes. (not that I measured them) Ended up with about 26L of wort when I wanted 21L. This resulted in an unexpected overflow from the cube (My only problem of the day  )

Need to sort out the volume stuff and should be sweet.

Cheers, Mat.


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## katzke (29/12/10)

I like the idea for one reason. I have some cuts in my bag from stupid things I did and the rim of my keggle.

If I was going to do this I would ditch the Silicon and just use stainless wire to sew it all together. Or I would find someone that could weld it all together.

Glue has the nasty habit of letting go when you need it most and never letting go when you need it too. One reason why solder or braising is not as good as welding.

I also would fins something besides the wood for the rim. I think the wet, heat, and gunk will take its toll.

Not to say the bag is bad. The bag is good. A stainless bag will last almost forever.


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## matr (31/12/10)

The range of temps etc is all within specs for the silicon. Only time will tell I guess.

Re the wooden top it is only a temporary arrangement. I have a sheet of 10mm plastic (chopping board purchased in China for $3) which will take it's place when it shits.


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## matr (4/1/11)

Hi guys, Just another update from my 2nd brew using this.

Brewed a Kolsch

90% Pils
5% Munich
5% Wheat

Worked out my volumes and did a lot better. Still room for improvement though (Actually undershot it a bit).

Efficiency details are;

Efficiency into boiler: 80%
Brewhouse efficiency: 75%
Efficiency into fermenter: 70%

So pretty good I thought?? By the way, what is the efficiency most people quote when they talk efficiency?

I guess I should also mention the grains were crushed by the HBS so not specifically for BIAB in mind
& I also have not looked into mash PH yet. 

Next up a Dunkel.

Cheers, Mat.


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## Thirsty Boy (5/1/11)

Nice work matr, those are great efficiency figures. Is that for straight up BIAB or are you giving it a bit of a sparge of some sort? Either way - good.

People use all the different efficiency figures, which is ampain in the rear. Essentially, you cant take any notice of the figures people quote unless they specify (as you did) which they are talking about, its just meaningless otherwise. FWIW, the majority of brewing recipe books, the magazines like BYO and Zymurgy, podcast shows like the Jamil Show etc - all (I am pretty sure) use efficiency into the kettle.

Nice work with the stainless jiggerator - i strongly suspect that you will gain a bunch of imitators over the next little while. I might well be one of them.

TB


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## matr (5/1/11)

Thanks TB.

Just hoisted & drained. No Sparge. No mash out either. 

Thanks for the info on the efficiencies makes a lot of sense now why people bitch & whinge & argue about how to calculate it.. :icon_cheers: 

Cheers, Mat.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/1/11)

matr said:


> Hi guys, Just another update from my 2nd brew using this.
> 
> Brewed a Kolsch
> 
> ...


Respectable figures, I usually quote brewhouse and recipes as % of total grain bill as this makes it easy to share recipes with others.
GB


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## technoicon (6/1/11)

just asked them for a quote on the wire... :icon_cheers:


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## Zizzle (24/2/11)

matr said:


> So I threw up a picture of a SS mesh bag I have made in another thread and had some interest.



Just wondering how the silicon and mesh bag is holding up?

I made a SS mesh bag for the brewbot on the weekend. Much smaller scale. Instead of silicon I got some 316 stainless steel wire and stitched it together. I haven't used it yet, but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. My backup option was silver soldering the thing together.

I think I might make another one for our full volume setup and ditch the swiss voile.

Turned out pretty cheap too. (Excuse the brain dead units) 

24"x24" 316 stainless mesh, 0.029" holes - $9 
Stainless Steel 316 Wire, Precision Ground, Straightened (Vacuum-Arc Remelt), 0.026" Diameter, 60" Length (Pack of 5) - $1.70
12"x12" 316 stainless sheet - $12
Free shipping on orders over $25 - priceless 














(full size images on the blog http://zizzle-brewbot.blogspot.com/2011/02...ot-and-bag.html )


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## ArnieW (24/2/11)

Zizzle said:


> Just wondering how the silicon and mesh bag is holding up?
> 
> I made a SS mesh bag for the brewbot on the weekend. Much smaller scale. Instead of silicon I got some 316 stainless steel wire and stitched it together. I haven't used it yet, but I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. My backup option was silver soldering the thing together.
> 
> ...


Nice work Zizzle.

Where did you get the mesh from?


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## Zizzle (24/2/11)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CTYN6U

I got it when it was on special for half that price.


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## QldKev (24/2/11)

With making s/s mesh BIAB bags I was thinking it could be good to use solid sides, and mesh bottom. This would allow the mash not to have the full volume of water and you could lift the bag and dump sparge water into it. The solid sides would ensure the water would have to travel down through the grain and not out over the floor. 






QldKev


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## Sydneybrewer (24/2/11)

Zizzle said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CTYN6U
> 
> I got it when it was on special for half that price.



it says does not ship outside of USA, did you have to contact them before purchase to arrange the shipping? because this looks really cheap as i am planing on making a stainless mesh BIAB out of an old stainless crab basket i have sourced that fits perfectly in my urn. 

this is the first step in my automated BIAB plans, next is installing the pump to recirculate the mash and clear the wort via it passing through the grain bed ala Braumeister.


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## Yob (24/2/11)

QldKev said:


> View attachment 44284
> 
> 
> 
> ...




this is what Ive done Kev. only not as sexy as posted above, Ive got a 19lt (bigw) pot into which I fit a smaller pot (coles) with holes drilled through the bottom,(PITA) the only thing that worries me is that it is'nt quite as tight a fit as Id like, probably 10-15mm but certainly makes sparging an easy task, ive got a fridge shelf I use and sit the pot on to sparge.

the only improvement I can see would be a tighter fitting pot.

:icon_cheers: 

will post a pic later


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## matr (24/2/11)

Zizzle said:


> Just wondering how the silicon and mesh bag is holding up?



Hasn't failed yet after 5 batches. Largest Grain bill was about 5kg. so about 8.5kgs total.

What has impressed me more is the MDF I used at the top. Hasn't even looked like swelling or deteriorating.

My mesh has a 0.012" aperture so you won't be able to use your wire to sew it together. (FYI Voile is about 0.008")
The smaller the aperture the more cost.

Cheers, Mat.


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## matr (24/2/11)

QldKev said:


> With making s/s mesh BIAB bags I was thinking it could be good to use solid sides, and mesh bottom. This would allow the mash not to have the full volume of water and you could lift the bag and dump sparge water into it. The solid sides would ensure the water would have to travel down through the grain and not out over the floor.



That's why I made the base conical. It works great. All the liquor drains from the centre of the bag.

Cheers, Mat.


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## ArnieW (24/2/11)

Zizzle said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CTYN6U
> 
> I got it when it was on special for half that price.


I guess I'm behind the times - I thought Amazon sold books!

Thanks for the link, pity they don't ship to Aus.


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## ArnieW (24/2/11)

Sydneybrewer said:


> it says does not ship outside of USA, did you have to contact them before purchase to arrange the shipping? because this looks really cheap as i am planing on making a stainless mesh BIAB out of an old stainless crab basket i have sourced that fits perfectly in my urn.
> 
> this is the first step in my automated BIAB plans, next is installing the pump to recirculate the mash and clear the wort via it passing through the grain bed ala Braumeister.


@ Sydneybrewer and Zizzle,

you guys might like to see what I've done with my Braumeister/BIAB inspired automated rig. It is run by a BrewTroller and some vid and details on my blog site:
Braubushka video
Some basic notes on BrauBushka


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## kjparker (24/2/11)

I wonder if something like this, joined to a handipail or similar, would work?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sieve-250mm-Fine-Me...=item3f071a8e36


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## Sydneybrewer (25/2/11)

ArnieW said:


> @ Sydneybrewer and Zizzle,
> 
> you guys might like to see what I've done with my Braumeister/BIAB inspired automated rig. It is run by a BrewTroller and some vid and details on my blog site:
> Braubushka video
> Some basic notes on BrauBushka



me like very much, great work dude, i am not going that far with my design... yet


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## Zizzle (25/2/11)

Sydneybrewer said:


> it says does not ship outside of USA, did you have to contact them before purchase to arrange the shipping? because this looks really cheap as i am planing on making a stainless mesh BIAB out of an old stainless crab basket i have sourced that fits perfectly in my urn.
> 
> this is the first step in my automated BIAB plans, next is installing the pump to recirculate the mash and clear the wort via it passing through the grain bed ala Braumeister.



Yeah I'm currently in the US so that is why.

Be sure to keep us posted with your automation project.



matr said:


> Hasn't failed yet after 5 batches. Largest Grain bill was about 5kg. so about 8.5kgs total.
> 
> My mesh has a 0.012" aperture so you won't be able to use your wire to sew it together. (FYI Voile is about 0.008")
> The smaller the aperture the more cost.



Just go with smaller wire then.

http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Coil...729&sr=8-14



ArnieW said:


> @ Sydneybrewer and Zizzle,
> 
> you guys might like to see what I've done with my Braumeister/BIAB inspired automated rig. It is run by a BrewTroller and some vid and details on my blog site:
> Braubushka video
> Some basic notes on BrauBushka



Arnie great stuff, you're a legend, and your work has inspired parts of both my 'bots.

Interesting that we are both going through "simplification" phases now.

I'm currently a few days away from a competition deadline. So taking a few shortcuts just to get it working.


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## ArnieW (25/2/11)

Zizzle said:


> Yeah I'm currently in the US so that is why.
> 
> Be sure to keep us posted with your automation project.
> 
> ...



My tendency is to overcomplicate but I love good design and elegant ideas. I'm really enjoying how easy it is to brew on the new rig. 

I've been lurking on your blog site. I like seeing a plan come together. It was great to see the lift gantry and moving of grain bag to the side. All the best with the comp.


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