# Which PID controller? Auberins vs Sestos? Which Sensor?



## Nodrog

Hi,
apologies if this has been done to death, but figure is always worth asking.

The Auberins SYL-2352P seems to be the PID of choice here, but $$'s count, especially in the nzd pacific peso

Seller mixtea on ebay seems to have the complete kit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-Digital-Temperature-Control-Controller-0-to-400-K-Sensor-25A-SSR-/330778021402?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d03e80e1a

Looks to be an equivalent to Auberins 2362, with no timing ramp ups / holds etc.

The manuals are apparently a bit shaky, but by downloading an Auberins equivalent to explain the lingo it sounds possible.

Has anyone used the Sestos? is it reliable?
Is there a common Sestos equivalent to the 2362 with the time functions?


On another note, can someone help with what's the most accurate sensor type?
RTD? K? PT100?? etc?
They seem to have different ranges / accuracies. Obviously don't need to go over 100c, so is one type preferred for mash control?


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## MastersBrewery

Lots of questions, a few answers from my own research and what I have read from others using these. Firstly An RTD is a PT100 and that would be the choice for accuracy. The Auberins is the ducks and in their range they have many more options such as ramp soak. The sestos and others are just PIDs from what Cocko and others have said the ramp soak once set and sorted, is well worth the extra cost.

Ed if you got the linked kit you would still need new probe and heats sink for the ssr


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## QldKev

That ebay one is a REX and not a Sestos. REX only seem to support a K -Type probe which sucks. For brewing the pt100 is the one you want.
Also that probe that comes with it is crap, I tried one and it rusted after first use.

A sestos is this one, don't buy that one as it may not be a good price. Also since the kit probes are shit you are better off buying the bits separately.

An SSR by itself is cheap. This is the brand I stay with, but I think they are all good.

The sestos is a good unit and if you only want a single temperature and manually adjust each step (which a lot of people do) it is what I would use if you don't go to the Auber 2352P. I use these Sestos on my 3V for the HLT and Kettle.

The auber SYL-2352P allows you to enter in multiple step temperatures and times. So you enter your full brewing schedule and walk away. Then if your on the dunny when you should be changing times it doesn't matter. This is what I have on my 3V.

For the pt100 I prefer the Auber ones. If you get one with the upgraded cable option then you can unplug the cable from both ends, which makes cleaning up a lot easier. 
I did try that cheap k-type, which only lasted 1 brew. I also got an ebay pt100 which although the probe was stainless the thread around it was not. Although it would have worked, I ended up ordering a proper Auber probe. Only thing Auber probes with the upgraded cable works out a bit expensive, but I think they are worth the money. There are some brewers who are happy with certain ebay pt100 probes.

If you are ordering from Auber they have a 2352 ( note no P ) which is same as a Sestos, but a genuine Auber for about $10 more than a Sestos.

Cheers

QldKev


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## Nodrog

Yeah, found the sestos "website", and looks to be only one model, with no timer options.

So to do it properly sounds as if RTD( = PT100) and the auberins with timer is way to go. Can see how once it's set up the next thing is get it to control step mashes etc with no manual interference.

If I'm spending the $$s to control something, is easy to convince myself to spend proper $s and control it properly....


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## Nodrog

Qld Kevin you typed your reply whilst I was doing mine. Thanks for the details
Will see what can track down on the pt100 and go from there.
Can see how getting a couple of dodgy probes and having to replace them blows the budget over right first time.


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## kymba

You can change the input type on those REX-C100's to accept pt100


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## Edak

kymba said:


> You can change the input type on those REX-C100's to accept pt100


If they are genuine, but I bought a few on eBay and they were all "RENUINE", if you know what I mean.... These REX C100 units do not have input for anything other than TK thermocouples. I have some calibrated PT100 RTDs and I can't use them


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## kymba

my PID is $0.99 rex from china (+$22 P+H), and I changed it. You just need to follow the instruction sheet that came with your actual unit, pretty sure it is the only part in legible engrish


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## Edak

Believe me, it's not the same. The menu system was completely different and I took the damn things apart and saw no circuitry that would allow it to use an RTD. Instead I used some thermocouples and modified the output to disable the internal relays (which were physical relays) and gave them an SSR output.

Can you tell us which seller you got yours from?


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## kymba

Fair enuf. It was from 'jiejiestore2009'

Here's the printout from when I bought it View attachment PID Digital Temperature Control Controller Thermocouple _ eBay.pdf


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## bignath

I've fairly recently gone through the whole PID thing with a single vessel build i was putting together.

Spent a lot of time listening to QldKev as he has quite a bit of knowledge on the subject. Really helped with my understanding and decision making, not just on purchasing the parts, but also on the wiring i'd need to make it all operational. Others on here like Edak and Mattho who are both heavily involved in building automation things for brewing are a wealth of knowledge too.

For me it came down to:

What if down the track i want automation for things like step mashing?
Id rather buy it once and buy it properly than have to replace it later at more cost due to inflexibility. Even something so simple in concept as a mashout, is a piece of piss with a ramp/soak. Sit back and watch it all happen - priceless.

I went the ramp/soak auberins model, with the rtd probe and deluxe cable which is easily detached from the unit and the probe (quick disconnects at both ends of cable). 
Bought a cheap SSR of evilbay.

Very happy with my setup and glad i spent the small amount extra on the better and more versatile components.


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## Edak

auberins ramp/soak seems like the easiest way to get into step mashing. Less effing around and MANY people use them.


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## brewologist

Hey Edak,

Do you use an Auber 2352P? What do you have it set at to boil the kettle?

Cheers,


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## Edak

Nah I have arduino based PID units in my brewery and those terrible Rex ripoffs in my smoker and sous vide. I was only commenting on the auberins because they are apparently the ducks nuts according to the many posts I have read. Sorry i didn't help.


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## brewologist

No probs Edak,

I have the Auber 2352 and 2352P. I think it might be overkill but I got the 2352 second hand, a bit cheaper than from auber inst. I've been setting the PID's up using ambient temps to get a feel for how they work.

Bring on brew day.


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## brewologist

Oh,

To the OP, sorry for the highjack.

All I can contribute is that the Auber manual is pretty easy to understand and if, when you're programming/setting it up, you google your probs, there will most likely an answer out there somewhere.

From what I've studied there is not much difference between sestos and auber unless you want the ramp/soak option.

Cheers,


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## Truman42

QldKev said:


> That ebay one is a REX and not a Sestos. REX only seem to support a K -Type probe which sucks. For brewing the pt100 is the one you want.
> Also that probe that comes with it is crap, I tried one and it rusted after first use.
> 
> A sestos is this one, don't buy that one as it may not be a good price. Also since the kit probes are shit you are better off buying the bits separately.
> 
> An SSR by itself is cheap. This is the brand I stay with, but I think they are all good.
> 
> The sestos is a good unit and if you only want a single temperature and manually adjust each step (which a lot of people do) it is what I would use if you don't go to the Auber 2352P. I use these Sestos on my 3V for the HLT and Kettle.
> 
> The auber SYL-2352P allows you to enter in multiple step temperatures and times. So you enter your full brewing schedule and walk away. Then if your on the dunny when you should be changing times it doesn't matter. This is what I have on my 3V.
> 
> For the pt100 I prefer the Auber ones. If you get one with the upgraded cable option then you can unplug the cable from both ends, which makes cleaning up a lot easier.
> I did try that cheap k-type, which only lasted 1 brew. I also got an ebay pt100 which although the probe was stainless the thread around it was not. Although it would have worked, I ended up ordering a proper Auber probe. Only thing Auber probes with the upgraded cable works out a bit expensive, but I think they are worth the money. There are some brewers who are happy with certain ebay pt100 probes.
> 
> If you are ordering from Auber they have a 2352 ( note no P ) which is same as a Sestos, but a genuine Auber for about $10 more than a Sestos.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> QldKev


+1 for Kevs suggestions above. Just did a water test run with the auber ramp/soak pid and its too easy. Just start it and walk away and do other things whilst your mash is doing its thing.

The only thing I didnt do and now regret from Kevs suggestions was to buy the PT100 probes from Auberins with the upgraded cable. I have to unscrew my cables from the herms and HLT to wash them out etc. But at the time my budget had been blown, so eventually I will upgrade to the deluxe cables so I can unplug them from both ends.


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## mabrungard

I have a pair of 2352's in my system and I'm using K-type thermocouples with 6 ft cables. Their accuracy and precision is not very good. Its probably due to the long cables with the K thermocouples. I'll be moving to RTD's in the near future. I think the 2352's are fine.


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## Edak

Thermocouples should be reasonably consistent but they are uncalibrated, if you can test them at certain temperatures then you can account for their offsets.


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## Nodrog

Thanks everyone, some great information.
Does the pid have a temp calibration option? Or would you need to have a cheat sheet to x ref actual temp to temp measured?


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## Truman42

In the settings menu you change PB to calibrate your probe. I heated some water to 65C measured with a glass thermometer, and sat my probe and glass thermometer in the water then noticed how much it was out by. Then you just change PB up or down and check again.


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## Nodrog

Qldkev??

Do you use heat sinks with your ssr?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Output-24V-380V-25A-SSR-25-DA-Solid-State-Relay-For-PID-Temperature-Controller-/370812041158
ThIs one does not seem to have an option for one but the below looks like it would fit

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Aluminum-Heat-Sink-For-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-Small-Type-Heat-Dissipation-/330862162902?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d08ebf3d6

I quite like the look of the auberins ones with the option to externally mount the heat sink, have you been able to do this on the fotek ssr?

Somebody mentioned normally a closed ssr so the HLT element only runs when hx one is pulsed off. Understand the wiring, but can,t seem to find one on evil bay. Any ideas?

Cheers all


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## QldKev

IMHO always use heat sinks with a SSR, you may be able to get away without one with a small load, but wire it up to suit what else may get plugged into it.

Most my builds use those rack mount heat sinks you linked too as they are cheap, but take up space in the box. Jaycar also have these heat sinks that are external and fairly priced. They are the ones used in the Matho's controller build. You could also use the Fotek SSR on the Auber heat sink. Also the electric brewery sells external heat sinks.

Here's a NC SSR. Good idea to use of for sharing element outputs. There is a circuit diagram on the forum somewhere to wire up what you have asked using normal NO SSR's. I asked the same question a while back.

QldKev


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## Nodrog

Thanks
Am i right in thinking that the NormClosed ssr is only going to be 12V input, and also 12V load?
(Its put in serial with the 12V input going to the SSr that controls the 'other' element, ie HLT.

If that's the case, wouldn't something like this do? Think this is Norm Open, but spec / rating wise, it would be enough?

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=SY4093

or

http://www.futurlec.com.au/RelSS.jsp
2nd one down shows load terminals 1 -- 2&3 so 2or3 is NO and the other NC?

Will look for that circuit diagram now


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## Nodrog

page 24 of the 45 page thread! thanks Fraser_john



> Jeez, I am glad I am so anal that I retain almost everything! I found the original receipt from Farmell....here is the exact item I ordered:
> 
> Normally Closed SSR -> CROUZET - MPDCD3-B - SSR, PCB MOUNT, 60VDC, 32VDC, 3A


Can't find the drawing though...


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## dblunn

Edak said:


> Nah I have arduino based PID units in my brewery and those terrible Rex ripoffs in my smoker and sous vide. I was only commenting on the auberins because they are apparently the ducks nuts according to the many posts I have read. Sorry i didn't help.


Hi Edak, where did you get the code & cct for the arduino PID controller?
Dave


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## Edgebrew

With the previously mentioned PID controllers, does anyone those with an analog output? I think everyone just uses the digital ON/OFF control. Do these switch slowly, or are they more like a PWM with faster switching? Does this make sense?

I hope I am also not hijacking the thread.


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## QldKev

Edgebrew said:


> With the previously mentioned PID controllers, does anyone those with an analog output? I think everyone just uses the digital ON/OFF control. Do these switch slowly, or are they more like a PWM with faster switching? Does this make sense?
> 
> I hope I am also not hijacking the thread.



None use true PWM / analogue, they just switch ON/OFF at a rapid rate if you use the SSR model, or a slower rate using the relay version.


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## Edgebrew

QldKev said:


> None use true PWM / analogue, they just switch ON/OFF at a rapid rate if you use the SSR model, or a slower rate using the relay version.


Ah cool. Thanks QldKev.


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## anthonyUK

QldKev said:


> None use true PWM / analogue, they just switch ON/OFF at a rapid rate if you use the SSR model,


PWM is basically that, at least it acheives the same thing, no?

I can only speak for the Sestos but it is able to output anything between 0-100% power with an SSR by doing this which would not be possible with a relay which is only on or off.


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## sjp770

So the SESTOS controller I have has EP1-8 a tthe end of the menu for programming it. It looks like a Auber clone, and based off this manual: http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYLXXXP%20instruction%20manual%201.5.pdf I should be able to program ramps?

So its not a clone of that auber as it has no A/M button on the front. The first page of the manual http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/lerway66/D1S-2_001.jpg


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