# Nsw Homebrew Competition 2005



## Ray_Mills (29/6/05)

Hi
The IBU's (Illawarra Brewers Union) with help from brewers in Bathurst, Newcastle, Canberra and Sydney have finally come up with dates for this year's Competition.
The competition will be judged over 2 days at The Five Islands Brewing Co in Wollongong.
The NSW Competition now has its own website thanks to those involved at the Australian Craftbrewers site.
Judging dates are complete as well as the closing dates for entries. We have a poster completed for all Homebrew shops in NSW to display. This will be emailed and posted to as many shops we can find.
The site is not completed yet as the entry forms, guidelines and conditions will be available soon.
The important part:
To run a competition of this size we need HELP. Stewards, Judges and general helpers. This competition can't be run by the half dozen of us in the back ground. So post us if you can help on the days.
We hope to contact as many people in the industry for sponsorship, without this there will be no competition, so if you know anyone in the industry. let us know, as all sponsors will be displayed on the website logo and all as sponsors.
This is the first competition in Australia to be registered with the Beer Judge Certification Program. This means all beers will be judged using the BJCP guidlines.
I will be posting more information as it comes to hand. 
Get your beers ready.
The website http://nsw.craftbrewer.org/
Cheers
Ray Mills


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## mikem108 (30/6/05)

"The competition and style guidlines will give you all the info you need to fill out the form and enter the beer correctly"

Ray
I can't seem to find this?


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## Ray_Mills (30/6/05)

mikem108 said:


> "The competition and style guidlines will give you all the info you need to fill out the form and enter the beer correctly"
> 
> Ray
> I can't seem to find this?
> [post="65518"][/post]​




This information will be on the site soon, promise
Cheers
Ray


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## Ray_Mills (18/8/05)

Hi all

Well the competition is getting close. As said before we need help on the days of judging. We need senior judges and assistant judges, assistant judjes are the guys and girls out there that know their beers and styles, have a good palate and want to give it a go :blink: .

We need stewards who can pour a beer and look after the judges table. (You can try the beers as well.  )

We need general helpers to assist in the days work.

The Competition has had a huge response from the Homebrewing industry as well as the Micro brewers out there. To make it a success for the homebrewers of this state we need your help.

Those interested could you please contact me on [email protected] so I can work out the numbers on both days.

The site will be completed next week and I will inform all when the conditions and entry forms will be posted. Also we will have a poster that can be printed out. Give it to your local shop or a mate or two so they have details to enter the Competition.  

Cheers
Ray


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## muga (18/8/05)

Sounds like a good day indeed & nice and close to home too.


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## Ray_Mills (18/8/05)

It will be a good TWO days Muga
Turn up and meet us all
Ray


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## Linz (18/8/05)

Ray,

Throw the poster up here

http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/malebrew/

and I'll get it to Manfred at Macarthur HB supply


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## muga (19/8/05)

Ray_Mills said:


> It will be a good TWO days Muga
> Turn up and meet us all
> Ray
> [post="72638"][/post]​


If you could PM me some details I'll see if I can.
I'm no beer judge, I just love to drink it! 

I can cook up a good BBQ providing I have an eski full of cold ones beside me.


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## ozbrewer (20/8/05)

hey all

Im trying to find an entry form for the NSW comp? can anyone help me out here?



also i noticed that the comp will be judged using the BJCP guide....how is this going to effect the nats, as they are not using the BJCP?


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## Linz (20/8/05)

ozbrewer said:


> they are not using the BJCP?
> 
> 
> [post="73014"][/post]​




Yet.......


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## Ray_Mills (30/8/05)

Hi
Entry forms and conditions are now posted for those who did not enter last year. I hope last years brewers have recieved their forms by email.
http://www.craftbrewer.org/
Cheers
Ray


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## AndrewQLD (30/8/05)

> This competition is open to all brewers whatsoever, with the only restriction being that the entry must
> have been fermented by them, in premises not licensed as a commercial brewery. While entries will be
> accepted and judged from any state, territory or country, only residents of New South Wales, Australia
> are eligible for the award of prizes.



Hi Ray,
Do I read the above correctly, being from Queensland I can enter the comp, pay my $7 per entry, possibly win all of my entered catagories, But I am NOT entitled to the prizes?

Cheers
Andrew


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## Ross (30/8/05)

AndrewQLD said:


> Hi Ray,
> Do I read the above correctly, being from Queensland I can enter the comp, pay my $7 per entry, possibly win all of my entered catagories, But I am NOT entitled to the prizes?
> 
> Cheers
> ...



If the case, not much of an enticement...

++++

On a similar vien - what's considered the most prestigious comp to enter, for a newbie on the comp scene?...


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## AndrewQLD (30/8/05)

Ross,
I think the bathurst comp would be one of the better run and most popular, Last year I believe they had more entries than the National.


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## Weizguy (30/8/05)

I've also heard from my LHBS that Bathurst is the best/ most prestigious comp.

Good to hear, coz I've done OK there on a couple of occasions.

One of the former Bathurst brewers, who lived in Newcastle for a while, really likes my weizen. Mmmmm, just as much as I do!

Seth out


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## Ross (30/8/05)

So whens the Bathurst comp held?


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## big d (30/8/05)

hi ross
it was held this year on the 4th and 5th of march so should be around the same dates next year.pint of lager should be able to confirm next years dates if unchanged.
yep a great comp with good feed back and prizes.


cheers
big d


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## Ross (30/8/05)

Sounds good - this years Qld state comp had a very poor set of catergories IMO - reckon most of my beers were out of spec to their guidelines - just have to see how they fair...


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## Ray_Mills (30/8/05)

Hi
To Andrew and Ross,
I have contacted the organiser of the Queensland State competition and will have details when answered.
First this is a competiton for NSW brewers to enter and winners will qualify for the National competition held this year at South Austrlia.
Any brewers living outside NSW can enter but will not qualify for the National competition.
If you want to enter all your beers to be judged to the latest BJCP guidlines feel free. We will judge them and send you the feedback and score sheets for each beer. 
As set in the rules only NSW brewers will win prizes and qualify for the Nationals.
Cheers
Ray


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## AndrewQLD (31/8/05)

Ray_Mills said:


> Hi
> To Andrew and Ross,
> I have contacted the organiser of the Queensland State competition and will have details when answered.
> First this is a competiton for NSW brewers to enter and winners will qualify for the National competition held this year at South Austrlia.
> ...



Well Ray,
It's your competition, and you can run it however you wish. Qualifying for the Nationals is fair enough, it is after all a State comp for qualification into the Nationals. However I do think it's a bit weak to take $7.00 entry fee from out of staters and not give them the benefit and glory of being able to hold up their first place prize to their family and friends! Out of curiosity if I win first place in the comp what happens to the prize?

Cheers
Andrew


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## Ray_Mills (31/8/05)

Andrew
If the $7 is your problem then don't enter your beers. I think the rules are quite clear without repeating them.
Ray


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## ozbrewer (31/8/05)

you have a very good point there andrew, i would assume that the entry fee goes towards expenses such as the prizes, 

sounds like a way for the comp to boost numbers to me...


Send ya beer to me, ill give you feedback for free


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## AndrewQLD (31/8/05)

Ray_Mills said:


> Andrew
> If the $7 is your problem then don't enter your beers. I think the rules are quite clear without repeating them.
> Ray
> [post="74777"][/post]​



Actually Ray, my problem is not the $7.00 and I did state that it was your comp, and you had the right to run it as you see fit, I was just curious as to why out of staters could enter but not receive awards.
My post was not meant as a personal attack at you and I appologise if you took it that way.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Darren (31/8/05)

Ray,
I may have read incorrectly but, are NSW comp bottles judged against BJCP guidelines or Aust guidelines. I don't see Aussie ale/lager in BJCP.
cheers
Darren


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## Ray_Mills (31/8/05)

Darren
This is the first Aussie competion using the new BJCP guidelines. so no Aussie Ale or Lager is in.
Give it time and it might be there one day but not this year. 
Ray


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## Darren (31/8/05)

Ray,
I imagine there will be alot of *&ssed off kit brewers in your state. AABC have some ok guidelines that could be added to the BJCP.
cheers
Darren


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## Ray_Mills (31/8/05)

Darren
Not one complaint as yet, if we get a lot we can look at it, we are flexable.
Ray


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## Ray_Mills (5/9/05)

Hi
Well just a reminder to all entering to get your beers in this week. This gives us time to get the bottles numbered and sorted into styles.
Any Problems let me know
Cheers
Ray


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## homebrewworld.com (5/9/05)

Ok my go,

1. State Comp.........ie NSW not QLD yeah ! But you are most welcome to enter..
2. Kit brews ( send em in please ! )
3. Aussie Ale/ Lager ..........nup as Ray says not this time.

actuallyRay, my problem is not the $7.00 and I did state that it was your comp, and you had the right to run it as you see fit, I was just curious as to why out of staters could enter but not receive awards.

Well its not really Rays Comp, its a NSW comp.

However I do think it's a bit weak to take $7.00 entry fee from out of staters and not give them the benefit and glory of being able to hold up their first place prize to their family and friends! 

Sounds like your bitchin about 7 bucks to get your beer judged to me ? you want a trophy or appreciation of the beer entered ?


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## Wreck (12/9/05)

Hi Ray,

Just wondering if you got a good turn out for the comp. 

Thanks,
Wreck.


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## bigfridge (14/9/05)

homebrewworld.com said:


> Ok my go,
> 
> 1. State Comp.........ie NSW not QLD yeah ! But you are most welcome to enter..
> 2. Kit brews ( send em in please ! )
> ...




Hi All,

There seems to be a fair bit of misunderstanding surrounding the NSW Comp. As the guy who wrote the rules, I thought that I should chime in.

The rules for this year's comp were a refinement of last years where we tidied up the definition of what constitutes a club and who should be able to take place awards.

The rational is that the "Best Brewer in NSW" or the "Best NSW Dark Lager" should go to a NSW brewer. This is the same approach taken in many other sports and hobbies. You may be the best snooker player in the world, but you cannot enter the state championships unless you live in that state.

I wonder how many people actually read the rules ? The actual wording is:

"While entries will be accepted and judged from any state, territory or country, only residents of New South Wales, Australia are eligible for the award of prizes."

There is no mention of qualification for the Nationals - they have their own rules, but as we are a recognised competition you can use your score and place to qualify for the Nats. What happens if a non-NSW brewer wins a place (say a 2nd) - easy, they are awarded a non-resident 2nd place and the 3rd place (overall) received the 2nd place (resident) award.

There also seems to be some confusion on the style guidelines being used. They are 'based' on the BJCP - not limited to the BJCP. If you refer to the entry form or the Style Categories (see http://nsw.craftbrewer.org/index.php?id=390) you can see that the traditional Aust. styles have been added. The way that our styles map to the AABA categories is also shown on the web page.

I hope that this has clarified the rules, but if not please ask away.

BTW, the $7 entry fee covers about a quarter the cost of running the comp. The remainder comes from the sponsors and the officials themselves (who pay for their own transport and accomodation).

Thanks
David


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## Ray_Mills (14/9/05)

Hi
This years competition is looking good, most beers are in and we have 30 or so more beers than last year. Whats good is we have a lot of new brewers coming from a wider NSW base.
A lot of work has been going on in the background getting sponsors, organising judges and stewards and general helpers. Data entry, posting, the new web site info, the list goes on.
All this only happens from dedicated people how love the hobbie and we have to thank all the sponsors who put aside monies to make it all work.
It should be an exciting few days coming up, those who feel like they would like to show up and help, and have not contacted us please do so by the web page.
Cheers
Ray


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## Peter Wadey (15/9/05)

Well I dunno Ray!!
Andrew wanted to go to Nationals and you wouldn't let him.
He's gone off and organised something with Kurtz & the club who have welcomed his money with open arms.
Turns out we could have happily taken his money,
drunk his beer, and (should he brew a half decent one) sent him on his way to
the Nationals anyway.

I hope the boys from the IBU's give you a bit of jip over this.

You'll have to spend more time selling jam to
make up for the loss to the club.

As the Brew Nazi would say,
NO BREW FOR YOU !!!

_Warmest_ Regards,
Wad

(who BTW, also has trouble making any money)


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## AndrewQLD (15/9/05)

Peter Wadey said:


> Well I dunno Ray!!
> Andrew wanted to go to Nationals and you wouldn't let him.
> He's gone off and organised something with Kurtz & the club who have welcomed his money with open arms.
> Turns out we could have happily taken his money,
> ...



Hi Peter,

In Rays defence he did offer to judge the Qld entries seperately from the NSW ones, but I felt that there was not enough time to organise it. I was also hopeful that last years organiser would come up with a satisfactory solution to the problem, but that was not the case, so the Canberra brewers volunteered to judge our entries with theirs, but to award National qualification seperately. seemed like an easy solution for all concerned.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Linz (15/9/05)

Peter Wadey said:


> Well I dunno Ray!!
> Andrew wanted to go to Nationals and you wouldn't let him.
> He's gone off and organised something with Kurtz & the club who have welcomed his money with open arms.
> Turns out we could have happily taken his money,
> ...




MMEEEOOOOWWWW!!!!!


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## big d (15/9/05)

mmmmmmmmaybe enter the anawbs in adelaide.
does say national and i havent seen anything yet that says the other "nationals" is the ducks guts of beer comps in australia.is there any cohesion towards organising beer comps between states leading to the holy grail of best beer catergories in the country.
it all appears a bit adhoc in comps.
if a state/territory has no comp then who looks after them should they have people wishing to enter.? hardly national


food for thought.


cheers
big d


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## Peter Wadey (19/9/05)

Linz/ Andrew,
Boys - it was a joke!
Don't worry about Ray, he knows me better than that.
I thought it would be obvious without the need for smiley 'clues'. 

Nevermind,
Wad

PS You don't REALLY think that's how comp organisers view comps is it...just take peoples money, drink their p_ss and give them a worthless piece of paper to massage their egos, DO YOU?

I'm not expecting an answer to that one, either.


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## /// (19/9/05)

3. Aussie Ale/ Lager ..........nup as Ray says not this time.


Late but there you go.

I actually challenge the idea of this 'Aussie Ale/Lager'. I know senior brewers of both CUB and Lion and they state to follow Bud. On further qualification, they both agree that all the major breweries worldwide follow Bud for their specs; such as bitterness, alcohol, residuals and colour. Bud's the international standard, make enough beer like both these breweries and why would you not?

So, the beers become 'International' rather than domestic. And i'd ask whats the problem here, not many HB'ers set out to create a VB, or do they? (i'd feel scared at that being true!)

And and Aussie Ale, a Lager with some esters more created from high gravity brewing that wanting a real ale. Do many folks have a de-oxigenator hanging around for the dilution water.... only if your got lots of Mullah...

So dont sweat it, its all akin to an international conspiracy... what is Orstatralian aint to different from a UK lager or one in Sth Africa....

///


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## Gerard_M (20/9/05)

Gentlemen
Who cares about styles, as long as it is the best beer that you can produce, then it is worthy of a run.
Now the most important thing that we can achieve as a group, and give us international recognition is to get Merc's Own to judge a brew comp. This would be a great advertisment for any comp. Look at what he has done for Dancing With The Stars! 
C'mon Ray shout him an airfare. He will draw a bigger crowd than Wadey!
Cheers
Gerard


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## Jim_Levet (21/9/05)

To clear up a few questions I have /// could you please answer the following:

Would beers such as Coopers Sparkling or Pale Ale be considered examples of Australian style Ale? Can we consider Boags Lager an Australian style lager?

I tend to drink these when I am out as they are the best of a bad bunch really.
Thanks 
James


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## Ray_Mills (21/9/05)

James
I will answer your questions
The beers you have mentioned are the finest examples of the beer styles. If you enter beers equal to the beers you mentioned would be a winner.
Cheers
Ray


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## Doc (24/9/05)

Anyone make it along to day one of the NSW comp today ?
If so how did it go ?

Beers,
Doc


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## warrenlw63 (24/9/05)

Exactly why I sit back in the peanut gallery and view contests from afar these days... nuff said. :lol: 

Warren -


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## Barry (25/9/05)

Good Day

(ducking peanuts) It was a great day yesterday. Lots of old faces and many new. It went like clockwork because of the efforts of Ray, Andrew, Scott, David and others. Had five banks of three judges judging at the same time which made it run well. The second and final day of judging is on today and I am now off to catch the 7.12 from Sutherland to The Gong.


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## muga (25/9/05)

Had to bloody work


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## Peter Wadey (26/9/05)

Doc,
Sorry, I let it slip that you weren't 'really into the comp thing', so the stewards figured in that case they'd just put your 4 entries aside and drink them on the quiet. 

Rgds,
Pete


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## Doc (26/9/05)

Cheers Peter.
Did you guys enjoy them ? 

Doc


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## Borret (26/9/05)

So can we expect some results posted here sometime soon?  

Borret


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## Doc (26/9/05)

Fingers crossed Borret.
I hear that the results were finalised yesterday afternoon. 
Just not sure when they will be released to the wider community.

Beers,
Doc


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## Peter Wadey (26/9/05)

Geez Doc,
What are you like at Christmas time? 

The poor blighters are probably having a well deserved rest from things beery.

Anyway in this er... 'quiet time' I'd like to extend a big thank you to all involved.

Rgds,
Pete


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## bigfridge (26/9/05)

Peter Wadey said:


> Geez Doc,
> What are you like at Christmas time?
> 
> The poor blighters are probably having a well deserved rest from things beery.
> ...



Thanks for you kind words Peter.

Didn't really have a rest today as I got back from the 'gong late yesterday and didn't feel like firing up the laptop so I had to check and doublecheck all judges sheets to look for any calculation errors today.

But I can now declare 'correct weight'.

All competitors will receive their results back in the next few days, but for the impatient and curious you can see a summary of the results at: 

http://nsw.craftbrewer.org/index.php?id=392

Thanks and Congratulations to all involved.

David


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## Tony (26/9/05)

I got a first place in the Australian plae ale, a third place for my scottish 80 and a third place for my Ironbark smoked ale 

i am stoaked.

I didnt expect to get anything.

will have to inprove for next year now B) 

cheers and congrats to all other winners :super:


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## Gough (26/9/05)

Tony said:


> I got a first place in the Australian plae ale, a third place for my scottish 80 and a third place for my Ironbark smoked ale
> 
> i am stoaked.
> 
> ...



Congratulations Tony :beerbang: 

I wondered if that was you  Congrats to all the other winners as well. I put a bitter and a kolsch style in for no placing this year so I'll have to improve for next year as well :lol:

Congrats again,

Shawn.


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## Ross (26/9/05)

Tony said:


> I got a first place in the Australian plae ale, a third place for my scottish 80 and a third place for my Ironbark smoked ale
> 
> [post="79559"][/post]​



Well done Tony :beer: , The Aussie Pale must have been good, coz your Scottish was superb... Would like to think Duc, Pumpy & myself could claim some of the glory (for the Scottish), but I guess watching you brew while emptying your beer fridge doesn't quite count  ...


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## Batz (26/9/05)

Congartulations Tony :super: 

Great result . bet your having a few tonight :beer: 

Batz


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/9/05)

Good work Tony. That Scottish was a great beer.


Thanks to Pumpy and Ross for helping me empty your beer fridge whilst you made the Scottish...Although Pumpy had trouble getting his head away from the smell of the kettle...the way he was hugging it , I thought he was going to carry it home...

Good to see that the yeast I sent you survived the rigours of Aust post...


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## AndrewQLD (27/9/05)

Well done Tony  , congratulations also to Peter Wadey, If I missed out on anyone congratulations too.

Cherrs
Andrew


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## neonmeate (27/9/05)

i got 2nd in belgians and 128pts for my big spicy rye belgian strong dark ale... hooray, now i can send some of my bizarre belgians in to the nationals.
guess my US barleywine was a bit young... ill enter it again next year.
congrats to tony and others too

corin


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## warrenlw63 (27/9/05)

We shall now call you Mr. Bone!   

Good stuff NM! :beerbang: 

Warren -


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## warrenlw63 (27/9/05)

All places in the Pale Ale category were Scotch Ales.  Is the hop dead? :unsure: 

Warren -


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## Wreck (27/9/05)

Scored a 2nd in the strong lager. Shame I've only got 2 bottles left. With no fridge, I'll have to wait until winter next year to brew it again.


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## Weizguy (27/9/05)

Hey, don't forget me, fellas. :blink: 

I'm an AHBer, and I scored 2nd in the Wheat section with my Weizen.

Shame that I couldn't enter my Berliner weisse in the wheat section, as it was a sour beer and had no chance in the Sour section against the Belgians. Oh well, that's BJCP. Que Sera etc.

...but I still got a second (not a close second, though) for one of my regular beers.

I s'pose I should brew another batch for the Nats. Mmmmm fresh Hefeweizen. I'm salivating already.

Cheering    
Seth out


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## Plastic Man (27/9/05)

The judging was done in probably the only bar in OZ that has used a Randall - so surely not !!!


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## Gough (27/9/05)

Congrats Weiz. :beerbang: Sorry I missed naming you earlier.  

Shawn.


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## Steve Lacey (27/9/05)

Congrats to all AHB place getters and organisers, even the new members like Mr BigFridge hisself (nice handle, David!)

It would be interesting to know how many of the placegetters are NOT members of at least one of the two main brewing lists, this one and OzCb.


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## warrenlw63 (27/9/05)

G'day Steve! How've you been?  

If they're NOT members of either forums. Time for a recruiting drive so we can pick their brains. :lol: 

Often wonder how many seasoned brewers out there don't subscribe to these forums. I'm guessing there's lots. :unsure: 

We could be missing a wealth of experience. 

Warren -


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## Tony (27/9/05)

Ok....... a question.

What is the go with the national competition?

how do i qualify to enter it and when is on if i qualify?

excuse my ignorance but this comp thing is all new to me. This is ny first big comp so im still learning.

thanks

tony.


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## Peter Wadey (27/9/05)

All,

I could be mistaken, but I think that is Mel's boy, Andrew Robson, from ESB,
that took Grand Champion Beer and also did well with his Bo. Pils.

Father (& son, of course) must be proud.

It's a good sign.

Rgds,
Pete


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## homebrewworld.com (27/9/05)

Peter Wadey,
Your not mistaken, it was Mels young fella Andrew.
I saw Andrew yesterday, and the smile on his face was bigger than Luna Park !
Good on him eh, and it was his first comp too !

:beerbang:


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## Snow (27/9/05)

Tony said:


> Ok....... a question.
> 
> What is the go with the national competition?
> 
> ...



Tony, 

first, well done on your results. It sure is a buzz to do well in a popular competiton.

As far as the Nationals go, as you placed 1 first and 2 thirds with your beers, you can enter those same brews into the nationals, which I think are in Adelaide this year. If you don't have any of that beer left, I don't think it's the done thing to brew another batch for the nationals, so Weizguy, if you don't have any of your hefeweizen left, then I don't think you can brew another batch for the comp.

Cheers - Snow


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## warrenlw63 (27/9/05)

Snow said:


> I don't think it's the done thing to brew another batch for the nationals, so Weizguy, if you don't have any of your hefeweizen left, then I don't think you can brew another batch for the comp.
> 
> Cheers - Snow
> [post="79685"][/post]​




Snow IIRC rules usually stipulate that place getters must enter the same beer or an "equivalent" of the same beer for the national comps.

I open to correction though. :unsure: 

Warren -


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## Tony (27/9/05)

ahhh ok

is there a site with all the relivent info i can have a look at?

cheers


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## Doc (27/9/05)

Congratulations on doing so well at the NSW comp guys, and for the organisers. I hear it was very well run.
Pity the stewards drunk my beers eh Peter 

Doc


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## Malnourished (28/9/05)

neonmeate said:


> i got 2nd in belgians and 128pts for my big spicy rye belgian strong dark ale...
> [post="79628"][/post]​


Hey congrats neonmeate! That's a kick-arse beer, assuming it is what I think it is...


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## neonmeate (28/9/05)

Malnourished said:


> neonmeate said:
> 
> 
> > i got 2nd in belgians and 128pts for my big spicy rye belgian strong dark ale...
> ...


thanks "malnourished", yes that's right, it's a dachshund!


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## Weizguy (28/9/05)

congrats to all the other winners & placegetters in the NSW comp.

My apologies for being so self-centred, in the previous post.

It's good to see that new brewers are taking prizes in major comps, too.

Big ups to all!

Hope 2 see some of the recipes here soon, if it's not too much to ask.

Seth  

BTW, Warren thanks for the tip re the "equivalent beer". I thought that the rules allowed it. Same recipe, of course, as it's one of my regular brews.


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## Trev (28/9/05)

Seth,


You SHOULD have entered your Berliner Wiesse. There were not that many sour beers at all and I am confident that it would have stood up well against the competition - Belgians or not. I was actually hoping there were going to be more!

I'm not quite sure why you think that the BJCP guideleines would have put you at a disadvantage.

The Flanders Red was superb though, but it was superb in its own right  

Trev


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## Weizguy (28/9/05)

Trev,

I actually did enter the Berliner Weisse, but feel that it's odd pitting the sour light delicate beer against the other (Belgian) sour beers, which are strong, flavoursome and robust. The Berliner has little to make it stand out, apart from being well-brewed and thirst-quenching, and met the style guidleines well (in my own modest and objective opinion :lol: ).

Maybe I got it wrong, but don't the categories put all sour beers in the Belgian/French section? Maybe I read the documentation wrong, and entered my weisse in the wrong section of the comp.

I believe that the Berliner was great in its own right, too, and have no doubt that the Flanders red was fantastic (wish I had a taste of it actually).

I can't wait to get the judging sheets to read the judges opinions/ evaluation of all my entries.

Don't get me wrong. If I was really upset about the categories, I wouldn't have entered the comp, and I'm *really* happy to get a 2nd with my Weizen...

In closing, it's about the categories and not specifically the guidelines, if I can make that distinction.

Seth out


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## berapnopod (28/9/05)

Weizguy said:


> Trev,
> 
> I actually did enter the Berliner Weisse, but feel that it's odd pitting the sour light delicate beer against the other (Belgian) sour beers, which are strong, flavoursome and robust. The Berliner has little to make it stand out, apart from being well-brewed and thirst-quenching, and met the style guidleines well (in my own modest and objective opinion :lol: ).
> 
> ...



I don't know what the BJCP's rationale was for moving Berliner Weisse from wheat to sour beers, but theoretically it shouldn't matter which category it sits in, as far as points a beer gets. In a practical situation like a competition, I think a Berliner Weisse should be judged before any other sour beers, because it is the lightest and most delicate of the bunch, and thats what usually happens. I believe it happened on the weekend.

Another complication is that the NSW competition combined a lot of categories due to the limited numbers of beers entered (only two sour beers). So the sour ones were judged with some Belgian and French ales (Wits, Saisons, Biere de Gardes). Again, in an ideal situation, those categories shouldn't matter. I think we get pretty close to the ideal situation in reality  

Berp.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/9/05)

Congratulations to all winners and place getters in the NSW comp. Good luck in the Nationals.
Barry, I WILL brew that Maibock one day!!

C&B
TDA


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## Peter Wadey (28/9/05)

Tony,
The site used to be www.aaba.asn.au, however she's not responding.
I don't have any info on this years comp yet either.

Warren & Snow,
I have lost last years rules, but have 2003's in front of me.
There is nothing to say it has to be the same beer or equiv., only that the submitted beer must be in the same category. I think that was the story last year too. Nothing to say the rules haven't/ won't change.

Entries in the past have been due around late October. That pretty much rules out brewing a fresh batch anyway I think.

The brown I submitted to the NSW comp was made November last year...well past it's prime, still sorta drinkable, but not really National Comp stuff. Oh well.

Pete


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## Tony (29/9/05)

OK

After about 50 emails and phone calls i have found out this............ here is the email i got sent.

Hi Tony, 

I have just received the information from the Nationals so I can send the details back tomorrow.? Here is what I just received: 

"The 'normal' web site for the AABC I believe is not functioning!? 
However, our SABSOSA site, basic but functioning, has the guidelines we will be using for judging. Go to guidelines on sabsosa.com - entries are accepted from the top three highest scoring beers from each of the thirteen categories.? With scores no lower than thirty from a max of fifty points. 

We will be judging on 22 Oct. at Coopers Brewery. 

Entries should sent to 5 Ellis Ave., Eden Hills, SA 5050 

Bottles should be 750ml, or two 375ml, min 600ml. 

Label on bottles with name and style qualified. 
Complete entries list with names, ph #'s, and addresses etc on .xls spread 
sheet. Five dollars entry fee. Cheques made out to AABC.

well aparently the state organisers are suposed to send an Exel spreadsheet to the national organiseres and we just send our beer with the $5/entry.

but wait............. thers more.

noone seems to be talking and noone knows whats going on.

and its getting judged on the 22nd of october.............

i just love organised poeple.

I will send a couple of emails now and keep you all posted.

cheers 

tony.


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## Linz (29/9/05)

Tony said:


> but wait............. thers more.
> 
> noone seems to be talking and noone knows whats going on.
> 
> ...




Sounds like someone should send and email to the Saviour Dr Kurtz and the Canberra comp converters.......just in case, of course


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## Weizguy (30/9/05)

Tony said:


> <chopped>
> 
> noone seems to be talking and noone knows whats going on.
> 
> ...


Tony,

I think that the entries need to be there soon, too. Do we have a date? :blink: 

I haven't received my judging sheets and info for the Nationals yet (if it's included in the results package). :blink: 

Do we have anyone on this forum who can put these details on the AHB calendar, please? or is it there, and I can't see it? :blink: 

Seth


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## Ross (30/9/05)

Weizguy said:


> I think that the entries need to be there soon, too. Do we have a date? :blink:
> 
> I haven't received my judging sheets and info for the Nationals yet (if it's included in the results package). :blink:
> 
> ...



Surely not too soon - with a couple of State comps still to be judged?


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## Weizguy (30/9/05)

Ross said:


> Weizguy said:
> 
> 
> > I think that the entries need to be there soon, too. Do we have a date? :blink:
> ...


 Ross,

It may well be *too* soon, as the comp is judged on 22 Oct, which is only 3 weeks away.

Doesn't leave much time for the State comps to be finalised.
However, the beers will have close to the same maturity as when judged at State level because of the brevity of time between State and Nat comps.

Seth


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## Tony (1/10/05)

yep 22nd octoper as per my post.

I am just packing up my beers, putting a label on them and sending them with all my details including phone no.'s address etc and get them there asap.

there is not much more we can do..........there is no site. It will be judged as per the guidelines that were used for the SABSOSA

http://www.sabsosa.com/

cheers and good luck

tony


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## Tony (1/10/05)

Oh and Weizguy

I think i might upset some people if they found out what was in my Aussie pale ale.

I seem to hear nothing but knocking of the good old POR from most......... exceptions to a few that believe in it.

Is as good as a t-bone on the BBQ on a summers day, only its in beer :beerbang: 

cheers B)


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## Ross (1/10/05)

Tony said:


> yep 22nd octoper as per my post.
> 
> I am just packing up my beers, putting a label on them and sending them with all my details including phone no.'s address etc and get them there asap.
> 
> ...



So when's cut off Tony? - Not that I've got a qualifying beer or anything B) ...


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## Tony (2/10/05)

not sure ross........... :blink: 

They just told me that judging was on 22nd oct and to get the beers there wuick

I am posting mine on tuesday morning.

cheers


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## Weizguy (4/10/05)

Thanks Tony for the details.

As I don't have internet at home at the moment, this all comes as news to me.
Will send my beer ASAP, but may miss the cut-off for arrivals.

Th NSW State championships is the first comp I entered this year, and it has led to an entry in the Nats.
In case anyone has been following my New Year resolutions, I *have* brewed a competitive beer, as I'd hoped.

Don't know much about my chances in the Nationals, as I had no more weizen backups in the fridge, and had to make an "equivalent" beer, so could be a bit green.

BTW, Tony... POR is 'the' iconic Oz hop, and is definitiely not out of place in any Aussie beer. There may be some tastier options, but none more authentic.

Seth out


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## Gough (4/10/05)

Just got my results sheets in the mail and my Best Bitter I submitted came 4th in its category and there was a note saying this qualifies it for the Nationals  Don't know if I'll send it in though... How far down the list of placings do they go for Nat qualification?? My other beer (Kolsch) didn't do so well though...  


Shawn.


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## Tony (4/10/05)

Hey Gough

Well DONE

I got my sheets back today too.

I got a 1 first, 2 thirds a forth and a fifth out of 5 beers.  

My IPA cane 5th in its catagory and the results sheet says its eligable but from my corespondence with Mike Leupold, only the 1st 3 placed beers in each catagory AND scorring greater than 60% max points qualify.

I think the guys at the states got a bit confused and thought it was the top 3 / style OR scoreing 60%.

here is an email that mike says he sent to David regarding which beers qualify.

Sounds like there is a bit of a catfight going on but that is their problem.



Hi David,

As the present format, based on 13 categories, took over 9 years to develop,
we really must stick to it. 
This format, covering over 60 beer styles, hasn't been altered for three
years!? Much vibrant discussion and colourful comment in the early years
were the basis of the classes and styles now used nationally - the general
consensus is that the current format though not perfect, works quite well.? 

This doesn't mean it can't or won't be altered.? Proposed changes can be put
forward by State Delegates following the comp, in preparation for the next
year's qualifying rounds.? Ray Mills and Tim Thomas were names put forward
months ago as contacts for NSW. Though all correspondence I have sent to
other States re the AABC has included both Ray & Tim, we haven't heard from
either of them.

I'm afraid that the top three scores only, go through to the National.
That, unfortunately puts out Peter Wadey's? Brown Ale, Roland's Old Ale and
Mick Cousemaker's Old Ale.

Regarding beers entered in Cat 13 - the name of herb, spice or whatever,
particularly chilli that judges need to identify, should be clearly marked
on bottle label.
Judges do not see bottle, but this info is passed on to the judges. 

Trust we remain on talking terms.

Cheers, Mike

This is what i says on the SABSOSA Site:

Entrants to the Australian Amateur Brewing Championship must first qualify by placing 1st, 2nd or 3rd (and scoring at least 60% of maximum points) at an endorsed State Championship. Brewers are then entitled to enter a beer in that Category in the AABC.


Well there you go :unsure: 

thats all ive got.

I didnt send my IPA cause from the sounds of that it doesnt qualify.

cheers

tony


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## Gough (4/10/05)

Bloody hell! :blink: What a saga...

Thanks for the heads up. Definitely won't be sending my beer now despite the sheet I got saying it had qualified... Think I'll wait for Bathurst next year...

Shawn.


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## bigfridge (4/10/05)

Tony said:


> Hey Gough
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Tony,

It is a bit of a shame that you and Mike didn't check with me first before posting an email that I thought was private. You need to realise that this is an exremely rude (and illegal) thing to do. Can you please seek permission next time.

The situation is that there are a few written rules, and many verbal ones used by the AABA to determine eligibility. As requested by Mike I sent him a spreadsheet showing who had qualified once our placegetters had been re-sorted into the AABA categories. The email that you have published was his reply confirming that all were ok except for those mentioned - and these were unacceptable as this would mean that there were more than 3 entries from NSW appearing in those AABA categories. This is a verbal AABA rule as it is not actually written anywhere. 

The situation Tony is that I have advised those beers that you have qualified to enter in the AABA Nationals, and Mike has confirmed their eligibility.

It is pretty poor form for you and others to dismiss this information as 'unsure' and 'a bit of a catfight'. It is your decision of course, but I have not been advised by Mike that your IPA didn't qualify - but there is still plenty of time for them to change their mind.

Good Brewing,

David


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (5/10/05)

As far as I understand these rules the top 3 beers of each class in each state go through to the Nationals providing they score at least 60%.

So if you came 4th, 5th or even 10th with 60% you still don't qualify.

C&B
TDA


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## Ross (5/10/05)

I reckon it's bloody poor form to have a competition for the champion beers of Aus so poorly promoted.
No-one seems to have much clue what's going on & the closing date virtually upon us...
This should be the No1 comp on the calander...


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## Gough (5/10/05)

Now I'm completely confused :blink: The placings (1st, 2nd and 3rd) were posted online a week ago and neither of my 2 beers entered earned a top 3 placing. I hadn't thought about the Nationals or anything else for that matter and was awaiting my results sheets. First page in my results envelope that arrived yesterday was a note that reads and I quote:

"Dear Shawn,

The following entries have qualified for the National 2005 Australian Amateur Brewing Championships - congratulations!"

It then listed my beer and my score and an address to send the beer to with my $5 entry fee. Now does this not seem like a direct invitation to send my beer even though it came 4th?? 

Now please don't get me wrong. Comps are just a bit of fun to me and I am NOT busting a nut to get my beer in. Having not earned a place I just assumed I had not qualified in the first place. But why send me and presumably other brewers in a similar situation this invitation to submit beers if we indeed have not really qualified?? Does anyone have an answer here? Should people in our situation submit as invited (I AGAIN point out I am NOT pushing my beer where it isn't wanted here - as stated in my previous post I was thinking against sending anyway), or should we not submit despite the posted invitations?

This really is getting unnecessarily confusing I think. If someone has made an honest mistake can they just acknowledge such and give brewers in my position clear and unambiguous direction on whether or not to submit? Preferably a head comp organiser?

Thanks.

Confused :blink: 

Shawn.


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## AndrewQLD (5/10/05)

Gough,
As I see it (caveat)
The rules state that a beer must be awarded 1st, 2nd or third with a score of at least 60%of the total score ie: if the total score was 65 out of 100 and you are placed 1st, 2nd or third you can enter the national. if you place1st, 2nd or 3rd but only have a total of say 50% of the total score then you don't qualify. Same thing goes if you place 4th with 60% you don't qualify.

It is not up to the State organisers to decide what consitutes a qualifying entry, that is set out by the national organisers and state organisers cannot nominate an entry if it does not meet the requirements. Unfortunately this confusion has come about by a lack of information by the national organisers and as Ross said it has been very poorly promoted with not much info for brewers to be able to work out what they are entitled to enter.
I hope for your sake and the other brewers sakes that you will still be able to enter the comp given the circumstances and I wish you luck and hope you place well.
I emailed the organiser of the nat comp last week in regards to some more national details but have not received a reply as yet, if I do i will let you know the results.

here is an extract from the document and a link.
"Entrants to the Australian Amateur Brewing Championship must first qualify by placing 1st, 2nd or 3rd (and scoring at least 60% of maximum points) at an endorsed State Championship. Brewers are then entitled to enter a beer in that Category in the AABC" http://www.sabsosa.com/pmwiki.php/Main/GuideLines

Cheers
Andrew


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## bigfridge (5/10/05)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> As far as I understand these rules the top 3 beers of each class in each state go through to the Nationals providing they score at least 60%.
> 
> So if you came 4th, 5th or even 10th with 60% you still don't qualify.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but this is not the rules as we have brewers who came 2nd and 3rd in NSW being excluded from entering the Nationals. I agree with you that this is how I read the scant published information, but the AABA organising committee has chosen to interpret it differently.

David


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## bigfridge (5/10/05)

Gough said:


> Now I'm completely confused :blink: The placings (1st, 2nd and 3rd) were posted online a week ago and neither of my 2 beers entered earned a top 3 placing. I hadn't thought about the Nationals or anything else for that matter and was awaiting my results sheets. First page in my results envelope that arrived yesterday was a note that reads and I quote:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Shawn (and anyone else that has become confused),

Unfortunately you left out the most usefull part of the note that I sent all those that I had been told qualified. It is at the bottom of the note and reads "For further information please contact Mike Lupold ..." and gives his email address and phone number. I suggest you phone him as he is not very good answering eMails.

I fear that this is the only way that any confusion will be dealt with as there is nothing that I, or the collective minds gathered here can do. In this case Mike is the Judge, Jury and executioner.

All that I can say is that he has approved the list of qualifiers that I sent him, and this list was used as the basis for the notes included with the score sheets. It is also BTW the reason the score sheets were delayed by 4 days.

If you don't believe what I have sent you - please just follow the instructions and contact Mike.

The good news is that there will be no such confusion next year because I won't be attempting to work out who has qualified for what - you will need to work it out for yourself.

Good Brewing,
David


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (5/10/05)

bigfridge said:


> THE DRUNK ARAB said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I understand these rules the top 3 beers of each class in each state go through to the Nationals providing they score at least 60%.
> ...



David, the only way those brewers coming 2nd or 3rd would not qualify is if they scored less than 60%. Is this what happened or are there other rules that I don't know about?

C&B
TDA


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## Guest Lurker (5/10/05)

At the risk if adding to the confusion - is it related to the categories being different between the NSW and national comps and having to translate between the two?


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## AndrewQLD (5/10/05)

Guest Lurker said:


> At the risk if adding to the confusion - is it related to the categories being different between the NSW and national comps and having to translate between the two?
> [post="81139"][/post]​



You maybe onto something there GL, if so, it shows the need for a uniform competition layout between states.
Andrew


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## bigfridge (5/10/05)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> bigfridge said:
> 
> 
> > THE DRUNK ARAB said:
> ...



TDA,

The 60% cutoff is the only thing that is clear - a beer must score above this to be considered. Where the problem has occured is that Mike insisted that the AABA categories be used (even though the published rules says ' in a beer Category at an endorsed championship' no mention of the AABA categories) and this required our entries to be resorted into their categories. Now it is important to note that this only affects some Australian styles and things like Low and High alcohol styles. The differences are minor. In NSW we tried to use the AABA guidelines last year but found them wanting. We believe that the AABA have not kept pace with changes in international beer styles and judge education.

One example is Imperial Stout. NSW (quite sensibly I believe) judges these as stouts - the AABA considers them Strong Ales. Resorting everything to use their style categories has pushed the 'real' placegetters in our Strong Ale category out of the Nationals. I argued strongly against this but Mike insisted that this 'was the rules'.

David


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## Ross (5/10/05)

Thanks for that David, makes it clear at least....


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## Gough (5/10/05)

Yes, thanks for that David. 

Shawn.


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## Weizguy (5/10/05)

Thanks for all the work you put in for the NSW comp, David, and all the follow-up work too. I hope that you don't get the impression that people are having a go at you personally.
I can, however, empathise with both sides: brewers and organisers. It seems to me that the confusion/ distress lies at the National comp level. But, for goodness sake, don't let it ruin the spirit of the competition.
There is no longer a Homebrew comp run in conjunction with the Newcastle Show, due to organisational issues, and I'd hate to see the big comps go the same way.

Gough, get your beer in! Who knows, the Nat comp might like your beer better than the State, or conversely, as I found in the past.

BTW, I'm happy to advise that I scored a 4th in the Strong/ Old Ales, with some very encouraging feedback.

I suppose the organisations involved need to get together and reconcile the differences between ABAA and BJCP rules (if possible).

Seth's 2 cents


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## bigfridge (5/10/05)

AndrewQLD said:


> Guest Lurker said:
> 
> 
> > At the risk if adding to the confusion - is it related to the categories being different between the NSW and national comps and having to translate between the two?
> ...


All states need to be able to adapt the National guidlines to suit their local conditions and all do. As an example, we used the BJCP guidlines as a basis and then added the recognised Australian styles and sorted them into 11 Categories. We did not use all 13 AABA cats as we don't beleive that they line up with the realities of the international beer styles. 

QLD uses their own totally different sytles, other states add their own restrictions on who can enter etc.

My last comment is that it is not differences in the styles, but the absence of clear rules that leads to the confusion. The AABA is free to set whatever conditions on entries that they like - I just wish that they would let us know what they are !

Anyway, that is enough from me ......

David


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## bigfridge (5/10/05)

Weizguy said:


> Thanks for all the work you put in for the NSW comp, David, and all the follow-up work too. I hope that you don't get the impression that people are having a go at you personally.
> I can, however, empathise with both sides: brewers and organisers. It seems to me that the confusion/ distress lies at the National comp level. But, for goodness sake, don't let it ruin the spirit of the competition.
> There is no longer a Homebrew comp run in conjunction with the Newcastle Show, due to organisational issues, and I'd hate to see the big comps go the same way.
> 
> ...




Hi Guys,

No, I don't take any of this personally - thanks for your encouragment and support. But I do share everyones frustration in not having a clear set of rules for the running of our premiere competition.

We are always happy to talk about improving the comps etc, but all that I have got so far is that the AABA guidlines took 9 years to develop and have not needed changing for the last 3 years. 

But I ask where are their German Rye beer, American Stout or Imperial IPA ? And can anyone really argue that there is such a thing as an Australian Lager (aren't these just a local interpretation of the international Magalager style) or an distinctly Australian Wheat ?

Homebrew at Newcastle show ? I have only lived in Newcastle for 30 years (and brewed here for about 20) and knew nothing of it. I did judge at a Comp held as part of the Tocal Field day but that was years ago. 

Thanks again,
David


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## Weizguy (5/10/05)

bigfridge said:


> Homebrew at Newcastle show ? I have only lived in Newcastle for 30 years (and brewed here for about 20) and knew nothing of it. I did judge at a Comp held as part of the Tocal Field day but that was years ago.
> 
> Thanks again,
> David
> [post="81150"][/post]​



David,

To answer your question, for the information of the forum, and certainly not as a thread hijack...

The last brew comp @ Newcastle Regional Show was held in 1999, and was advertised in the local newspaper (Herald, IIRC).
It was the first comp I ever entered, and I got a 2nd (red ribbon) in the Wheat beers, and Frogg (of this forum) scored a red ribbon with his Stout. There were a few entries from Sydney, as I recall, and they took the lion's share of the prizes.

Results of the comp were also reported in the newspaper, and I still have my copy of the results page.

BTW, the comp folded as a result of lack of sponsors, and possibly judges too. The organisers of the last event in 1999 had some negative feedback IIRC, and decided that it was too much trouble to help with the 2000 comp.

Keen to resurrect the event, perhaps? If so, count me in!!!!!!! :beerbang: 
Sure would be a lot of other Novocastrians willing to assist.
Mark at the lhbs was thinking of running a comp next year. Food for thought.

Seth the historian


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## bigfridge (5/10/05)

Weizguy said:


> bigfridge said:
> 
> 
> > Homebrew at Newcastle show ? I have only lived in Newcastle for 30 years (and brewed here for about 20) and knew nothing of it. I did judge at a Comp held as part of the Tocal Field day but that was years ago.
> ...



Sorry, but I don't read newspapers .....

Stay tuned - I think you will see at least 2 comps in Newcastle next year, plus some more judge training. So we will need plenty of volunteers .....

David


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## Tony (5/10/05)

David.

I was going to send you an email but i will publicly appolagise for posting the e-mail info,

Sorry.

I didnt post it out of spite, i was just trying to give some people an idea of what was going on.

and well the catfight comment.......... well opinions are like aresholes..... everyones got one and some stick out more than others.

I must say for the record that with all the emails i sent you and mike i got a quick reply from you every time, the copy of the email was all i got from mike and got confused myself about the "which beers qualify" issue.

Your posts have cleared up a lot of questions for a lot of people and i thank you for the positive replies.

I have run state championships in the shooting sport and i do have a bit of an idea of the preasures. Everyone has an opioion that is right or a protest that has to go their way and along the way the work put in by the organisers behind the sceens can be lost in arguments and frustration.

I hope i didnt push too hard for the answers David. It was never my intention to piss any one off.

Cheers

Tony


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