# Keg Fridge Tripping Safety Switch



## RetsamHsam (24/6/09)

Hi all,

Hoping someone might be able to help me here. I woke up this morning and found that my house had no power... Went and flicked the safety switch back on, 10 seconds later it tripped again. Managed to trace the problem back to my keg fridge. I didn't have much time to check it out before going to work this morning, however there doesn't seem to be any frayed wires or leakage anywhere. Any ideas on what might be behind the problem?


----------



## Quintrex (24/6/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Hoping someone might be able to help me here. I woke up this morning and found that my house had no power... Went and flicked the safety switch back on, 10 seconds later it tripped again. Managed to trace the problem back to my keg fridge. I didn't have much time to check it out before going to work this morning, however there doesn't seem to be any frayed wires or leakage anywhere. Any ideas on what might be behind the problem?



Might be an overloaded circuit, turn everything else on the circuit off and leave just the fridge on, then try it.


----------



## LethalCorpse (24/6/09)

If it's the safety switch and not the breaker, the fridge is borked - probably a short to earth in the compressor. Have a look behind it whilst powered off to see if you can spot any loose wires that may have touched the chassis, but otherwise you've got yourself a bloody big esky.


----------



## technocat (24/6/09)

If you are talking about a RCD (residual current device) they will trip around 35mA. Like LC said they detect earth leakage. Condensation could be a consideration. A dead or even partial short will take out the circuit breaker.


----------



## RetsamHsam (24/6/09)

Beernut said:


> If you are talking about a RCD (residual current device) they will trip around 35mA. Like LC said they detect earth leakage. Condensation could be a consideration. A dead or even partial short will take out the circuit breaker.



I think you might be onto something, the switch was labelled 'RCD 60A' from memory. So condensation/moisture or earth leakage are what I should be looking for then?


----------



## canon1ball (24/6/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> my house had no power... Went and flicked the safety switch back on, 10 seconds later it tripped again.


The same happened to me on my daughters 18th!!!
An electrician found out that it was one of our fridges, he stated that typically the power comes back on for a few seconds after switching the safety than the compressor of the fridge kicks in and tripps it again. So, I believe the compressor is the culprit.
In the electricians experience a fridge repairer charges about $180-$200 plus compressor, probably not worth it if the fridge is more than 10 years old.


----------



## matho (24/6/09)

i had an old fridge that tripped the rcd all the time i looked in the back and the compressor was covered with dust and there was alot of condensation on it so i cleaned off the compressor and the fridge didn't trip of the rcd for the rest of the time i had it


----------



## Nath151 (24/6/09)

It could be moistue in the fridge it could be a neutral shorting to earth or it might just be a combined leak to earth from mutiple appliences 
any of these things will probably trip an RCD most are rated to 30mA but most trip at 20-25mA
your best finding a circuit that isn't connected to an RCD and if it trips the circuit breaker then you have some sort of fault in the fridge
also how old is the fridge as old appliences generaly have a lot more leakage current than newer ones


----------



## LethalCorpse (24/6/09)

Nath151 said:


> It could be moistue in the fridge it could be a neutral shorting to earth or it might just be a combined leak to earth from mutiple appliences
> any of these things will probably trip an RCD most are rated to 30mA but most trip at 20-25mA
> your best finding a circuit that isn't connected to an RCD and if it trips the circuit breaker then you have some sort of fault in the fridge
> also how old is the fridge as old appliences generaly have a lot more leakage current than newer ones


Whether it's tripping an RCD or a breaker, there's something wrong with the fridge.


----------



## Nath151 (24/6/09)

LethalCorpse said:


> Whether it's tripping an RCD or a breaker, there's something wrong with the fridge.




true but pluging it in to a non RCD circuit will tell if it is a leakage problem or a dead short with the compressor


----------



## reg (24/6/09)

LethalCorpse said:


> Whether it's tripping an RCD or a breaker, there's something wrong with the fridge.


This is not necessarilly true.
If it a slightly older fridge then a little "leakage" is a natural occurence.
The way you have described the goings on is that you have one RCD covering the whole premises. This is a pain when you have a problem like this and some people jump to the conclusion that they must get rid of their fridge. This is not the case.
There is an allowance in the wiring rules that makes exceptions for fridges to be covered by an RCD. This exception is to prevent nuisance tripping.
When wiring my house I have my lighting on one RCD and each of my power circuits has there own RCD so that if I do get an earth fault occur in the middle of the night I dont loose all power including lights. Oh I also have my fridge and freezer on their own unprotected circuits.

My point is that the fridge may not be stuffed but have just enough leakage to trip the earth leakage.
If you can find an unprotected circuit and plug it in you may be surprised that it still works.
Then to pay an electrician to install an unprotected outlet.........

:icon_cheers: Reg


----------



## Nath151 (24/6/09)

unfortunatly now acording to AS 3000:2007 (wiring Rules) All socket outlets MUST be protected by RCD


----------



## jlm (24/6/09)

Nath151 said:


> unfortunatly now acording to AS 3000:2007 (wiring Rules) All socket outlets MUST be protected by RCD


And don't forget ovens, AC ect. if not protected by metal conduit when cable is passing through stud frame walls.. OT but the sparkies will feel my pain...


----------



## LethalCorpse (24/6/09)

reg said:


> This is not necessarilly true.
> If it a slightly older fridge then a little "leakage" is a natural occurence.
> The way you have described the goings on is that you have one RCD covering the whole premises. This is a pain when you have a problem like this and some people jump to the conclusion that they must get rid of their fridge. This is not the case.
> There is an allowance in the wiring rules that makes exceptions for fridges to be covered by an RCD. This exception is to prevent nuisance tripping.
> ...


Natural, yes, acceptable, no. To suggest finding an unprotected outlet as a means of working around the problem is particularly stupid. If it's tripping an RCD, it's developed a fault, you can't know what caused it, you can't know how big the leakage is, and you can't know how the situation will get worse. RCDs are there for a reason. If you find a fault you fix the equipment or throw it. You don't ignore it.




Nath151 said:


> unfortunatly now acording to AS 3000:2007 (wiring Rules) All socket outlets MUST be protected by RCD


Only on new installations. Plenty of houses still, legally, have ceramic & wire fuses.


----------



## Nath151 (24/6/09)

Hard wired appliences like some ovens, cooktops, storage hot water and aircon dont allways have to be protected
but thats getting alittle off topic


----------



## andmat (24/6/09)

if it is an auto defrost fridge it could be the heater. to check you need to rotate the defrost timer a little. it is normaly located near the compressor.


----------



## Batz (24/6/09)

I'm just a dumb fitter but I'll pass my opinion anyway.


It's stuffed !

That's me it'll be out with the old in with a new old.

Batz


----------



## LethalCorpse (24/6/09)

Batz said:


> It's stuffed !


Exactly. It doesn't matter how, or why it's stuffed. It may be repairable, or it might be easier to just chuck it and get another, but to come up with dodgy ways to work around it is madness


----------



## Nath151 (24/6/09)

LethalCorpse said:


> Natural, yes, acceptable, no. To suggest finding an unprotected outlet as a means of working around the problem is particularly stupid. If it's tripping an RCD, it's developed a fault, you can't know what caused it, you can't know how big the leakage is, and you can't know how the situation will get worse. RCDs are there for a reason. If you find a fault you fix the equipment or throw it. You don't ignore it.



everything with an earth has some amount of leakage current it dosn't mean that the unit is faulty
find a sparkie or eletrical wholesaler in your area ask him to check the appliance with a MEGOHM Metre if the reading is 1Megohm or better the appliance is fine
they might even do it for a couple of your finest



LethalCorpse said:


> Only on new installations. Plenty of houses still, legally, have ceramic & wire fuses.



sorry i forgot to leave that part out

just from a sparkies POV


----------



## troopa (24/6/09)

Dont go testing faulty equipment on unprotected circuits .. if your willing to do that you might as well strip the wires off the end of an extension cord and lick the ends to see if its live or not <_< 

get a sparky out to test it and go from there

my 2 cents from just another busted arse Fitter 

Tom


----------



## lefty2446 (24/6/09)

LethalCorpse said:


> Only on new installations. Plenty of houses still, legally, have ceramic & wire fuses.



*Not a sparkie - Fridgie with restricted ticket* 

Wouldn't adding a circuit be classed as new installation? IE rewirable ceramic fuses can stay on existing wiring but have to add RCD protection to the newly installed circuit?
Not nitpicking but curious to know.

Adrian


----------



## Nath151 (24/6/09)

lefty2446 said:


> *Not a sparkie - Fridgie with restricted ticket*
> 
> Wouldn't adding a circuit be classed as new installation? IE rewirable ceramic fuses can stay on existing wiring but have to add RCD protection to the newly installed circuit?
> Not nitpicking but curious to know.
> ...




yea if you add a circuit, add a outlet to a circuit or remove an outlet from a circuit you need to protect the circuit by rcd


----------



## RetsamHsam (24/6/09)

Thanks for all the replies guys.. It looks as though the problem wasn't with the fridge after all, but the outlet it was plugged into. When i unplugged the fridge this arvo a chunk of the face plate came with it. I then plugged it into the outlet next to the dodgy one and two hours have passed without the rcd tripping. The only other viable explanation that has been given was that the defrost cycle is tripping the rcd, i guess i'll find out in afew weeks time. Thanks again.


----------



## LethalCorpse (24/6/09)

lefty2446 said:


> *Not a sparkie - Fridgie with restricted ticket*
> 
> Wouldn't adding a circuit be classed as new installation? IE rewirable ceramic fuses can stay on existing wiring but have to add RCD protection to the newly installed circuit?
> Not nitpicking but curious to know.
> ...


yup, that's right.

Retsam, good to hear it's working again. If it's the outlet that's buggered and causing the trip, you need to get a sparky out to replace that outlet. It won't be particularly expensive.


----------



## uniiqueuser (25/6/09)

What is older, the fridge or the RCD? We had an RCD which was fitted when they first came out 15 or 20 years ago and it was all the rage to get some dodgy sparky to install one, who probably knocked on the door or had some extremely late night TV ad. This happened before we bought the house and if had been the owner at that time I would have found a trusted sparky to replace the whole old and crappy fuse board instead of making a swift buck.

Every May or early June the RCD would trip for no apparent reason. I would trudge outside, often in my jocks, and switch it back on and it would continue to work for another few days or a week, and then switch off for no apparent reason. This is when we had an RCD free circuit for the fridges. 

On inspection the RCD had a cracked casing and I suspect it was faulty. I have since upgraded the wiring with all new circuit breakers and a new RCD, and now the fridges are on RCD pretected circuits, including a 60 year old round top Kelvinator (shed beer fridge). The new RCD has not tripped since installation. 

IMO these things are great if you are a great fan of sticking knives in toasters or warming up cold bath water with a fan heater. A bit like those yellow jackets which are made a space age kevlar type material that speeding forklifts bounce off when you walk out in front of them. Did someone say natural selection? :icon_cheers: 

....BUT get the fridge tested anyway!


----------



## stillscottish (4/12/10)

BUMP.

Woke up this morning to no power at the back of the house. Tracked it down to my beer fridge tripping the safety switch.

When we had our building work done, the electrician put in safety switches for the new part and also on the old circuits. That work was done 3 months ago and it's been working ok up till now. 

I just remembered that this was my daughters old fridge (not that old) but it was tripping the safety swith OCCASIONALLY at her house so we did a fridge swap 2 years ago as I had old-style breakers at that time. I'm at work atm and hopefully can borrow a megger to test it tonight but any suggestions before then?

It's not tripping it straight away, only after about 10 secs (when the compressor kicks in?) and there's not much else on that circuit.

Cheers

Campbell


----------



## Screwtop (4/12/10)

stillscottish said:


> BUMP.
> 
> Woke up this morning to no power at the back of the house. Tracked it down to my beer fridge tripping the safety switch.
> 
> ...




Hmm, Campbell maybe starter winding is SC  or if it has a freezer, maybe the defrost element is SC  can get them online for around the $30 - $40

Screwy


----------



## stillscottish (4/12/10)

Didn't have much time to do any checking at 4am other than isolating it. Don't know if it's a recurrence of its earlier tripping or if it's gone to fridge heaven. I guess the insulation tester will tell the tale.


----------



## winkle (4/12/10)

stillscottish said:


> Didn't have much time to do any checking at 4am other than isolating it. Don't know if it's a recurrence of its earlier tripping or if it's gone to fridge heaven. I guess the insulation tester will tell the tale.



There's probably a wedding ring in there creating a short  
_(Private joke)_


----------



## stillscottish (4/12/10)

Hmmm! 
Didn't look under_ that _one.


----------



## jonocarroll (4/12/10)

I had this problem recently (power stayed on for a little while, then knocked out) which I also traced to the keg fridge - happened when the fridge was on, didn't when I unplugged the fridge.

First, I tested to make sure it wasn't the temp controller (used without the fridge, used with the fridge, used with other device) and confirmed that it was indeed the fridge. I thought it was borked! I had a sparkie mate come around with a high-voltage multimeter and probe around, sure enough the power cord leaked current like a suitable analogy. The leakage wasn't across the motor, so we traced the wires through the fridge and eventually found the leakage in the metal housing for the light, on the same circuit as the thermostat! Since I've got a temp controller, I didn't really need the thermostat, and I don't really need the light inside the fridge, so we patched out that circuit, and now I have my fridge back. 

This was probably back in April or May. Before, I could run the fridge for maybe 10 minutes before it tripped the switch. It's been running ever since, so no problems I guess.

The sparkie said that he hates Clipsal switches - apparently they're too sensitive for most houses, and that people have too many devices which each leak a little current, but in total it's enough for the switch. I've got my fridge running and the switch in place, so I'm happy as can be.

Hope that helps.


----------



## stillscottish (5/12/10)

Well I got home and plugged it into a non-safety-switched outlet. Ran ok.
Meggered it and it read 250 Mohm. Plugged it back in to the original outlet and of course it worked and has been working ever since


----------



## NDH (5/12/10)

I also had a faulty ferment fridge.

At my old house it was on an old rewirable fuse and in the new house it was on an RCD in the switchboard and an orange RCD 4-way box. It was fine for a few months then started tripping both RCD's when the compressor kicked in. Got rid of it and halved the power bill for last quarter. Point being changing the RCD or the circuit the fridge is on is a band-aid sollution, if the fridge is knackered its probably worth fixing or replacing, could be costing you money as well as being a head ache.

NDH


----------



## Phoney (6/8/12)

Bump

I came home to no power in all of the power points today, I flicked the RCD switch and it turned off again... after exactly 6 minutes. Now, 6 minutes, that rings a bell....Oh! That's the compressor delay on my kegerators STC1000.  

So I unplugged it, flicked the switch again, this time I plugged the freezer directly into the power point and it went off again after the compressor ran for about 1 second. This chest freezer is only 18 months old (came with 12 months warranty :angry: ). 

So I pulled the cover off and inspected the compressor, no dust, no condensation, everything looks good, but I did find a family of about 10 little cockroachy looking bugs living underneath the compressor! The little bastards must have been hiding under there to keep warm. I sprayed them dead and gave everything a good wipe down, I suppose now i'll wait until tomorrow when everything dries and give it another shot.

Is it possible that one of them may have crawled inside somewhere (like the little black box to the left of the compressor) and created a short? Anything else I should try? Is it worth fixing? I really dont want to have to fork out for a new freezer and have to build a whole new collar.


----------



## Phoney (7/8/12)

If anyone cares  - I've plugged it in today and it's running like a charm.


It was the bloody cockroaches!


----------



## pk.sax (7/8/12)

Them neukiller holicost survivors! Basterds.


----------



## mattieharding (7/8/12)

phoneyhuh said:


> Bump
> 
> I came home to no power in all of the power points today, I flicked the RCD switch and it turned off again... after exactly 6 minutes. Now, 6 minutes, that rings a bell....Oh! That's the compressor delay on my kegerators STC1000.
> 
> ...



We come across this pretty often, and yeah its possible that there may be some inside the little terminal box. Worth checking anyway


----------



## Phoney (7/8/12)

Ahh yeah since that post I opened up the little terminal box and cleaned it out. From what I can tell the compressor is well sealed so hopefully none got in there.

Cheers.


----------

