# Poll: Culture Vault - What size



## Yob (24/8/16)

rather than bog down the Freezing Yeast topic with this stuff, I thought I'd start this.

Ive started work on developing some storage containers to fit in the deep freezer or with a bit of an addition, even a frost free (more to come on this)

The 2 sizes Im familiar with people having are the 50ml vials and the 15ml vials and the prototypes for both are underway

Prototype 1





it has vertically slotted plates that form the 'slots' for the vials and can store 5 x 5 50ml Vials

Prototype 2

can fit 8 x 8 15ml vials in a horizontal plate 





Interested to see what people think and what is the most common size vial used.

Cheers


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## sp0rk (24/8/16)

I'll try and grab a pic, but we get foam culture tube trays here at work, for transporting drugs and samples to/from horse studs
Dunno if they'd be any good for you


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## malt junkie (24/8/16)

When I read the title I thought you were questioning freezer size. A 350L chesty would even keep you happy Yob.

Like most I use the 50ml, but I've barely started. (6 vials and yet to revive one)


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## Coldspace (24/8/16)

I did my first batch with 50 ml vials last year from a chemist down the road. Since then I've found 30 ml ones from another local chemist. I feel these are best size for me ATM

Btw, just got out of freezer a vial of 1084 frozen from late last year, and stepped it into 500 ml of 1025 wort, 24 hrs into 1.5 ltr of 1040 , yest morning, today lovely thick creamy krausen, smells nice, going to step it up into a 3 ltr total 1040 tonight and tomm arvo pitch into 2 batches of Irish red.

Didn't really see much action in the 1025 wort, but their must of been growth as it had nice layer on the bottom after 36 hrs. Once into the 1040 wort, took off nicely after 24 hrs. Standard digital stirrer in Brisbane room temp ATM , deff going to get a yeast forge for next winter thou as still abit cool. But took off none the less.

Love this freezing thing, just so handy to have a selection on hand for brews I do.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (24/8/16)

The second one looks idea for my newly acquired deep freeze (mainly for SWMBO to store meals and bulk meat, but I'm allowed the bit over the hump under the basket. That should be enough to start my colony.


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## Midnight Brew (24/8/16)

Mainly 15's and 30's here. The 30's have a flat base and with a 50% yeast mix I estimate somewhere around 50billion cells. From freezer to pitch in two steps, although no race to get it in the FV, just what works for me.

Pretty keen to see these pan out. I've lost 50% of my freezer real estate to hops and yeast.


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## Mardoo (24/8/16)

I use 50's because they're easier to pour into.

Edit: Where are you guys finding the 30's?


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## sp0rk (24/8/16)

sp0rk said:


> I'll try and grab a pic, but we get foam culture tube trays here at work, for transporting drugs and samples to/from horse studs
> Dunno if they'd be any good for you


Went down and asked in our pharmacy, the ones I'm thinking of are part of a kit for a certain drug, can't order them individually
However I can order a tray of blood sample vials that come in a foam tray, dunno if they'd be boilable/autoclavable tho
Guess I could chuck them in the autoclave at work and see what happens...


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## mofox1 (24/8/16)

I've switched mainly to 15's (>100), but I started with 50's and still have a few of them (30 or 40?).

I've found the 15s work out alright... If I've got the time I'll build up from a single vial (~5ml compact yeast going into a 200ml 'ish 1.030 starter). Otherwise if the yeast is a bit old, has less yeast solids, or I want to reduce the lag time, I'll use 2 or more vials. 3 x 15ml vials is basically a 50ml... which can go straight into a 500ml initial step.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (24/8/16)

3D Printer, Yob?

My research has lead me to getting 30ml ones, by the way.


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## Yob (24/8/16)

Shit.. So that's 3 sizes...

Can someone send me one?

I'm thinking of making a one size fits all box with an interchangeable plate for the various tube sizes, a 15, 30 and 50 would work well I think.

I have tons of the 15 and 50 but none of the 30


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## Yob (24/8/16)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> 3D Printer, Yob?
> 
> My research has lead me to getting 30ml ones, by the way.



Got one at work that I've currently pirated to do the prototype, 2nd image in the gallery bar is the start of the box.. The main box will be ready tmoz but I still need to do the plate, lid and positioning plugs. So by Friday I should have the lot printed.. Well unless someone needs the work printer for "work" jobs..


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## Yob (24/8/16)

sp0rk said:


> I'll try and grab a pic, but we get foam culture tube trays here at work, for transporting drugs and samples to/from horse studs
> Dunno if they'd be any good for you


I thought of them mate but there are some other factors that make them not suitable.. 

I'm developing a solid gel sort of thing that the container can be filled with to act as a buffer for frost free freezers and insurance if a freezer dies or a big power outage. (such as Les and his almost yearly floods) The Styrofoam containers I've seen don't have the ability to fill with the buffer solution, hence the development of this, I couldn't find anything suitable so decided to develop the damn thing myself..

I'm about 60 hours deep in CAD and **** knows how many staring at a screen/wall/beer thinking about it and how it can be made better.. 

Such is my way..


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (24/8/16)

Saw a cheap 3D printer on kogan cheap. I get their spam and eggs mail.


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## sp0rk (24/8/16)

Yob said:


> I thought of them mate but there are some other factors that make them not suitable..
> 
> I'm developing a solid gel sort of thing that the container can be filled with to act as a buffer for frost free freezers and insurance if a freezer dies or a big power outage. (such as Les and his almost yearly floods) The Styrofoam containers I've seen don't have the ability to fill with the buffer solution, hence the development of this, I couldn't find anything suitable so decided to develop the damn thing myself..
> 
> ...


The other thing to look into is sperm shipping eskys
you can get ones that have freezing packs (like snap them and they get cold) that can last a few hours
They don't hold huge amounts of vials though, I think the ones we have can only hold up to 10


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## Yob (24/8/16)

The 50ml version is 5 x 5 and the 15 is 8 x 8 with plenty of room for the buffer


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## Midnight Brew (24/8/16)

Jesse, I can get a 30ml to you by the weekend


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## Yob (24/8/16)

swoit, that'd be great, I can get the plate modelled up and a prototype done next week.

preesh


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## mofox1 (24/8/16)

Midnight Brew said:


> I've lost 50% of my freezer real estate to hops and yeast.


So you have half a freezer free? Not sure I understand the problem... I could certainly go some more yeast storage space!


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## Yob (25/8/16)

Coldspace said:


> I did my first batch with 50 ml vials last year from a chemist down the road. Since then I've found 30 ml ones from another local chemist. I feel these are best size for me ATM
> Btw, just got out of freezer a vial of 1084 frozen from late last year, and stepped it into 500 ml of 1025 wort, 24 hrs into 1.5 ltr of 1040 , yest morning, today lovely thick creamy krausen, smells nice, going to step it up into a 3 ltr total 1040 tonight and tomm arvo pitch into 2 batches of Irish red.
> Didn't really see much action in the 1025 wort, but their must of been growth as it had nice layer on the bottom after 36 hrs. Once into the 1040 wort, took off nicely after 24 hrs. Standard digital stirrer in Brisbane room temp ATM , deff going to get a yeast forge for next winter thou as still abit cool. But took off none the less.
> Love this freezing thing, just so handy to have a selection on hand for brews I do.


The 1.025 starter will do more for replenishment of health than growth, expelling the glycerine and getting moving again. Half the time I'll allow the first starter to settle out on its own so it builds up the glycogen and thehalose reserves and then get cranking at 1.040 2l or 3l, if I'm not in a hurry that is...


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## Midnight Brew (25/8/16)

mofox1 said:


> So you have half a freezer free? Not sure I understand the problem... I could certainly go some more yeast storage space!


The rest if full of bread and bananas! If my freezer was to get robbed anyone would think I'm a doomsday prepper.


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## sp0rk (31/8/16)

The pharmacy at work has just confirmed for me they can get me 30ml and 50ml "sample" tubes for next to nix
So I guess that's what I'll be using


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## Yob (31/8/16)

Check out the images in the gallery, just finished the cartridge vault which is suitable for any of the 3 sizes


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## malt junkie (31/8/16)

Sooooo ..... are you going to run a buy on these?

Just askin ... I mean I like peeps showing off their skills and such.

and I don't want to give Mrs Yob reasons to want me dead!!

BTW they look perfect for the job :beerbang:


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## Yob (31/8/16)

malt junkie said:


> Sooooo ..... are you going to run a buy on these?
> 
> BTW they look perfect for the job :beerbang:


Looking to have them manufactured, yep

Designed for purpose :kooi:

Mini Vault images (Cartridge Vault)





The only size that requires the clips to make the 'work zone' is the 15ml which wont stand on their own and the plat will hold 8 vials, enough to store a fresh pack and still make a starter.





The Vault has been designed as a one size fits all scenario, if you do 15, 30 or 50ml the plates will fit the same vault, in fact the 30ml and the 50ml are the same diameter so the plate fits both









The box can be colsed up and filled (about 5mm below the plate) with a buffering solution and frozen, particularly useful if you only have frost free as it will buffer any temperature fluctuation


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## sp0rk (31/8/16)

I'm keen
Gnna go down to our pharmacy right now to grab some of the tubes

*edit*
Turns out we just use the ProSciTech LCA01 50ml centrifuge tubes
time to freeze some yeast


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## SBOB (31/8/16)




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## Mardoo (31/8/16)

Great to see the process of developing these. Great thread!


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## Moad (31/8/16)

Yob if you need some r and d funds I'd prepay kick starter style


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (31/8/16)

Hey Yob, I'll be in for these if you go commercial.


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## Yob (31/8/16)

Moad said:


> Yob if you need some r and d funds I'd prepay kick starter style


Gotta see what the tooling and press costs will be, ots likely I'll just jump for it (like I do with most things in life) and get it done...

By the time I **** around getting a kickstarter going, we could all be vaulting our arses off


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## Moad (31/8/16)

Awesome, work out a channel or manufacturer in the states and you are laughin


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## Grainer (31/8/16)

Experimenting with 5ml vials..but have like 1000x50ml vials in the spare room..


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## altone (2/9/16)

Love this idea - hope you get it all together.

I use a lowtech method - a styrofoam box lined with freezer blocks (frost free freezer) and 15ml vials stood in coffee cups in the middle - works but not exactly elegant.

Might be up for something like this instead though if you go all production on us.


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## Yob (6/9/16)

boddingtons best said:


> Love this idea - hope you get it all together.
> 
> I use a lowtech method - a styrofoam box lined with freezer blocks (frost free freezer) and 15ml vials stood in coffee cups in the middle - works but not exactly elegant.
> 
> Might be up for something like this instead though if you go all production on us.


A part of this idea is for guys like you with a frost free situation..

The Vault can be filled with a buffering solution that in effect negates the effects of a frost free environment..

How many 15ml vials do you have in your library?

My Larger prototype holds 7x7 and I'd be happy to send to a worthy beta tester.. its about version 4 and I feel is pretty solid.. pretty ******* stupid that I develop my prototype in a way I cant use it myself but hay, its been an interesting journey 

On the development side, I find it interesting that the final design is a mixture of version 1 and version 4, ultimately, it means that one box can suit all sizes Ive tested (15, 30, 50) and the only thing that changes is the top plate.

Ultimate box will hold 5x5 30/50 or 7x7 15ml, many things have been refined along the way but one of the hardest things to accommodate is the ability of the vault to do both deep freezer and frost free.

So.

Prototype giveaway. (+postage)

1 Large vault holding (and including) 42 15ml vials (full of starsan) - will fit 3kg express post pack
1 Cartridge vault holding (and including) 8 15ml vials (full of starsan) + workzone clips (pictured above) - will fit 500g Express post pack

Feedback required


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## Midnight Brew (6/9/16)

Shotgun 15ml vault!!


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## Yob (6/9/16)

Large Vault taken

still remaining, Cartridge Yeast Vault + workzone


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## Moad (6/9/16)

More than happy to provide some feedback yob. I haven't been freezing long but I reckon I'm pretty well across it


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (7/9/16)

I know you'll fill the spots in the next 2 weeks and goodness knows I've had my share of Yob freebies, but dang this is awesome. I'm just getting my bits for a stirplate, tubes and the rest in the next few days. Just need glycerine and I'm there.

Hope this goes beyond prototype.


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## Yob (7/9/16)

Moad said:


> More than happy to provide some feedback yob. I haven't been freezing long but I reckon I'm pretty well across it


Did I mention this one glows in the dark?

I'll shoot you a pm


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## Yob (25/9/16)

Moad said:


> More than happy to provide some feedback yob. I haven't been freezing long but I reckon I'm pretty well across it


what size vials are you using mate?


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## Moad (25/9/16)

I use 50ml vials

Cheers


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## SBOB (25/9/16)

got any more updates or details on this?

Another 50ml vial user here (all the cool kids use 50ml vials)


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## Yob (25/9/16)

What's of more interest? The cartridge type (5vials) or the large vault (5x5)


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## barls (25/9/16)

another 50ml user


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (25/9/16)

Depends on postage.

I reckon 5x5 would be better if post is comparable, amortise the per cost vial.


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## Mattrox (25/9/16)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Depends on postage.
> 
> I reckon 5x5 would be better if post is comparable, amortise the per cost vial.


I agree.


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## SBOB (25/9/16)

Yob said:


> What's of more interest? The cartridge type (5vials) or the large vault (5x5)


might depend on freezer space.. Upright freezer here as opposed to those with copious chest freezer space

Do you have rough dimensions of both?
the cartridge type might be good and keep a strain per cartridge for those without chest freezers


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## Yob (25/9/16)

SBOB said:


> Do you have rough dimensions of both?
> the cartridge type might be good and keep a strain per cartridge for those without chest freezers


thats the idea behind it, cartridge type for single strain, big box for collections

I'll get you the dimensions tmoz but about 190 long from memory


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## Midnight Brew (25/9/16)

I'll chime in and just say that I have the prototype 7x7 15ml vial setup. Its a space saving and neat piece of kit. Originally I had containers and zip lock bags to separate, through this piece of kit I've saved a good piece of freezer real estate. Added bonus that I will add a salt water solution to get me through the Summer power outages and frost free cycles.

Just catalogued my yeast bank in the last few days and keen to get my hands on the 30ml model. :beerbang:


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## Nullnvoid (25/9/16)

I'm interested in the smaller ones when these become available. Only got limited space and it will suitably annoy SHMBO, but with the fun I have been having doing yeast starters it would be good to have yeast on hand frozen


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## Yob (26/9/16)

SBOB said:


> Do you have rough dimensions of both?


the cartridge V5 I have here (which is close to final design) is

190 (L) x 50 (W) x 135 (H)

If memory serves, the large vault is 190 x 190 x 135


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## Camo6 (26/9/16)

Love the thread Yob. I'm a 50ml vial user and would love to see these go into production.


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## kaiserben (27/9/16)

I'll buy a couple if/when they go into production. Probably the large vault. 

I haven't frozen yeast yet, but I've just acquired heaps of spare freezer space and would like to get started.


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## Yob (27/9/16)

Well a few of the prototypes are out there now and Ive only heard good things thus far.

Ive been given a few production options to think about and thats been happening... er... slowly..

The real thing m spending time on is the production method and the quality, I think the design itself had taken some final form, so I need to get some plans off for quoting, sorting out run sizes etc.. this doesnt happen quickly for obvious reasons but I should have some time later this week or during next week tyo get the process moving.

In the meantime, Im going to print 3D Print another Large vault to play with..

One of the things ive been playing with is the 'buffer medium' which has been a challenge, too full and its hard to remove the vials, too loose and it doesnt really do what its aimed at, I settled on filling to a max of 1/3 full (with vials in) so that the buffer would cover the zone in which the yeast settles. Im testing in my frost free at the moment.

Cheers


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## Yob (14/12/16)

Mardoo, you got a link to those balls thingies?


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## WarmerBeer (14/12/16)

Yob said:


> Mardoo, you got a link to those balls thingies?


/eyebleach


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## Mardoo (14/12/16)

The yeasty balls?


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## Yob (14/12/16)

Mardoo said:


> The yeasty balls?


The freezy balls..


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## WarmerBeer (14/12/16)

Mardoo said:


> The yeasty balls?


The chocolate salty balls.


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## Mardoo (14/12/16)

Yob said:


> The freezy balls..


Ohhhhh, the blue balls. 

Wifey's finding me a hookup.


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## malt junkie (14/12/16)

Mardoo said:


> Ohhhhh, the blue balls.
> 
> Wifey's finding me a hookup.


Best to leave Aussie vernacular out of it, just sayin blue balls ain't a good thing!


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## Mardoo (14/12/16)

You missed the Wifey reference.


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## Mardoo (14/12/16)

Yob said:


> The freezy balls..


Ohhhhh, the blue balls. 

Wifey's finding me a hookup.


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## Midnight Brew (14/12/16)

I love my vault. I want another. Take my money.


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## spog (14/12/16)

malt junkie said:


> Best to leave Aussie vernacular out of it, just sayin blue balls ain't a good thing!


Lovers nuts ?


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## Yob (28/1/17)

OK, long overdue post..

Progress is this.. I think there are many sorts of enclosures available for far less than I can produce one... but the concept lives..

The whole idea of this is the griddage system where they all 'fit' into a storage container...

so my focus has been fro a little while on how best to make this so its adaptabe to a lot of container variation and I think Ive settled on the right medium (thank to input from a sient, as yet, design partner) to make it work..

completely adaptable grid system for the container of your choice.. 

for perspective, I saw an "underbed" tub today at bunnings for $10 which would hold 100 vials easy.. but not just freestanding.. If this design was done? I could easily set it up in less that 5 minutes and have vial space for aeons.. well.. maybe not me, I might need 2..

Edit: the upshot here is that the whole thing just got a shitload cheaper...


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## Moad (29/1/17)

Cheaper is good, need to trade off number of vials v storage space required. I already get grief for the number of white goods in the house so need to use our main freezer for yeast storage.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (12/7/17)

Almost.

@Yob (ooh, this atting thing does work), did you ever find a frost free solution - specifically something to container the vial holder? DAS and couldn't find the final solution.


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## Yob (12/7/17)

@Lord Raja Goomba I

what I first did was gaffa tape a whole bunch of polystyrene sheet (thin) inside and out of a clip lock container.

The vaults that I made I tooled about with a glycerine solution and seemed to work well enough, I never tested how long it maintained temps though but should be enough to buffer against rapid swings.


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