# James Squire Hop Thief 6 - Extract



## paulyman (8/8/14)

Hi all,

I'm only 4 months in, 4 or 5 K&K under the belt. Just used IanH's spreadsheet to try my first extract brew aiming for a Hop Thief 6 clone. Just bottled and it looks close in colour and taste, obviously not quite the punchy dry hopped smell of commercial hop thief, but its not lacking that's for sure. I'm quite chuffed, can't wait until its carbonated and I can do a proper side by side.

Using the spreadsheet as a guide I came up with the following:

2KG LDME
1KG DDME (Dark dry malt extract, is that the correct acronym?)
0.5 KG Caramunich 2

5g Columbus + 5g Simcoe at 20 minutes
20g Columbus + 20g Simcoe at 5 minutes
30g Columbus + 30g Simcoe at 0 minutes
35g Columbus + 35g Simcoe dry hopped on day 5.

Predicted FG of 1053 and OG of 1013. Actual FG of 1014 so I'm impressed with the spreadsheet!


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## paulyman (8/8/14)

Also,

Please, please add any criticisms. I'm still a newbie and would love to take on board the input from the more experienced.


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## brzt6060 (8/8/14)

paulyman said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm only 4 months in, 4 or 5 K&K under the belt. Just used IanH's spreadsheet to try my first extract brew aiming for a Hop Thief 6 clone. Just bottled and it looks close in colour and taste, obviously not quite the punchy dry hopped smell of commercial hop thief, but its not lacking that's for sure. I'm quite chuffed, can't wait until its carbonated and I can do a proper side by side.


Welcome to the forum pal!




paulyman said:


> Using the spreadsheet as a guide I came up with the following:
> 
> 2KG LDME
> 1KG DDME (Dark dry malt extract, is that the correct acronym?)
> 0.5 KG Caramunich 2


I'm a little confused by what you have brewed,

Is that, 2KG Light Dry Malt Extract 1KG Dark Dry Malt Extract and water?




paulyman said:


> 5g Columbus + 5g Simcoe at 20 minutes
> 20g Columbus + 20g Simcoe at 5 minutes
> 30g Columbus + 30g Simcoe at 0 minutes
> 35g Columbus + 35g Simcoe dry hopped on day 5.


I won't get into it too much, but according to the JS website the hops for hop thief 6 are:
Dr Rudi, Cascade, Motueka, Mosaic, Simcoe, Columbus

Have you done any bittering Hops?

Also what yeast did you use?



paulyman said:


> Predicted FG of 1053 and OG of 1013. Actual FG of 1014 so I'm impressed with the spreadsheet!


I think you have the FG and OG around the wrong way?

Edit: I will give you some more feed back later, I have a really sore head at the moment.


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## Blind Dog (8/8/14)

Website says No6 is Built around Simcoe with a little Columbus. Maybe the other hops were used in previous iterations? It's on my glass now and I'm not tasting anything but Simcoe and what I assume is Columbus.


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## brzt6060 (8/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> Website says No6 is Built around Simcoe with a little Columbus. Maybe the other hops were used in previous iterations? It's on my glass now and I'm not tasting anything but Simcoe and what I assume is Columbus.


 That aside you're not concerend about the fact that all he has in the beer is 2KG LDME 1KG DDME and then only 20 minute, 5 Minute and 0 Minute hops?


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/8/14)

That beer will not turn out as hoped....


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## paulyman (8/8/14)

I steeped the caramunic for 20 minutes in 1L of 70 degree water and then strained with 1L of water as directed by the spreadsheet.

I added the 2L of water from the steep to make up a 10L boil following the spreadsheet on how much light dry malt to add to the water to get it to 1040 for the boil.

I turned off the hop concentration factor and with those hop additions the IBU came out at 22 according to the spreadsheet, I'm starting to think I've miss understood a difference between IBU and actual bitterness? It seemed to have some bitterness when I tried it.

I cooled the wort in an ice bath and then added it along with the remainder of the 2KG of light dry malt, and the 1 KG of dark dry malt to the fermenter. Topped up to 23 litres. I added US05 yeast and sealed up to ferment.

I did mix up the OG and FG.


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## Blind Dog (8/8/14)

brzt6060 said:


> That aside you're not concerend about the fact that all he has in the beer is 2KG LDME 1KG DDME and then only 20 minute, 5 Minute and 0 Minute hops?


No idea on the extract. Too many years and too many beers since I used extract to make any meaningful contribution to that side of things. Hopping schedule didn't worry me overly as I had no idea how it would work in an extract recipe. So the only thing I could meaningfully comment on was the type of hops. Wasn't meant to be a dig at you, just happened to be drinking it at the time


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## shacked (9/8/14)

Hey mate,

Your process looks pretty sound, however at an ibu in the low 20's your beer is going to end up a little light on bitterness. At a guess, the JS would have an ibu that's probably twice what your beer will have. 

Your hop additions should give you bitterness, flavour and aroma. To generalise, bittering hops are added to the boil at anywhere from 60 to 30 mins; flavour at around 30 to 20 and aroma from 20 to 0 to dry. There are certain hops that work better for bittering, some that are better for flavour and some that work for both. The timings are also not set in stone either.

Check this out: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html 

If you like hoppy beers, have a look at the feral hop hog clone thread on here and give one of those recipes a go!

Cheers!!


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## paulyman (9/8/14)

Thanks for the info and feedback Shacked. I'm glad the process seems right, if the worst I've done is the creation of an under bittered beer I can live with that. I can fix that next brew.

I'll read through the info you have me and try again.


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## paulyman (9/8/14)

Oh, and I went and grabbed a four pack of Hop Hog to try, thanks for that info as well.


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## shacked (9/8/14)

One last thing, I generally add the balance of my malts / adjuncts 5 mins before the end of the boil. 

Keep us posted on this batch mate. Enjoy the hop hog!!


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## paulyman (10/8/14)

Wow, hop hog is amazing! I'll definitely look at the recipes on here!

Just tried a bottle of my batch, only slightly carbed of course, but though I'd try one. The colour is good. A little bitterness, but way too sweet! Lots of hop flavour and a bit of aroma. Although I do like the maltiness, just needs that bitterness to back it up.

Next batch I will do a 60 minute addition as suggested. Looking at the info provided and the forums here. How does magnum sound as a bittering hop?


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## shacked (10/8/14)

Yup, the HH is a nice drop!!

Magnum would be good. Citra and Centennial also work well.


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## brzt6060 (11/8/14)

paulyman said:


> Wow, hop hog is amazing! I'll definitely look at the recipes on here!
> 
> Just tried a bottle of my batch, only slightly carbed of course, but though I'd try one. The colour is good. A little bitterness, but way too sweet! Lots of hop flavour and a bit of aroma. Although I do like the maltiness, just needs that bitterness to back it up.
> 
> Next batch I will do a 60 minute addition as suggested. Looking at the info provided and the forums here. How does magnum sound as a bittering hop?


Hop Hog is good but if you want the same but better try and find founders all day session IPA. 

Glad the beer is drinkable... I just want to check and see as you said it was really sweet that you did have a stable gravity for 3 days before botterlig didn't you? Don't want any bottle bombs.


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## paulyman (13/8/14)

Will look out for All Day IPA.

The gravity was stable for 3 days, I actually left it for nearly a week after the second reading as I got side tracked with work.


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## paulyman (14/8/14)

I am making Tony's James Squire Amber Ale recipe next, I will play it safe on the next batch.

I have been playing with the spreadsheet and made two changes, I've dropped the dark malt and gone with just 3 kg of LDME and added 10g of Magnum at 60 minutes.


3 kg LDME
0.5 kg CaraMunich 2
90g Simcoe
90g Columbus
10g Magnum
US05 Yeast
I will do a 10L boil with 827g LDME added to get the BG to a predicted 1.040. The hop schedule will be:


10g Magnum at 60 minutes
5g Simcoe and 5g Columbus at 20 minutes
20g Simcoe and 20g Columbus at 5 minutes
30g Simcoe and 30g Columbus at 0 minutes
35g Simcoe and 35g Columbus dry hopped around day 5 depending on when fermentation dies down.
The spreadsheet estimates an OG of 1.053 and an FG of 1.013. An IBU of 37.2 and an EBC of 19.7.

This will be a fair bit lighter in colour than the last batch, too light. But I felt I should keep the changes to a minimum to see how they affect it.

How do those changes sound?


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## paulyman (14/8/14)

Oh, and the batch size will still be 23L.


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## Natsta (15/8/14)

I will be trying something similar this weekend. Posted on the all grain thread but better I post here. Thinking of doing a similar hops scheule to yours above but in the interest of being a tight bastard I want to throw in some prehopped cans just to get the bittering up. I'll be doing 45L so here is what i'm thinking.

1 x Coopers Draught
1 x Coopers Lager
2.5kg LDM
1.2kg Caramunich
1kg Carared
80g Columbus
80g Simcoe

10L boil with;

10g Simcoe and 10g Columbus at 20 minutes
15g Simcoe and 15g Columbus at 5 minutes
20g Simcoe and 20g Columbus at 0 minutes
35g Simcoe and 35g Columbus dry hopped

Should be about 46 IBU's with an OG of 1.052.

I am hoping to get that beautiful red colour so hopefully the Caramunich and Carared will have some effect.


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## Natsta (16/8/14)

Slight change for mine. Dropped the carared after chatting with my LHBS and going with 50g of roasted barley. Caramunich will be 1kg. I'm also thinking of doubling the simcoe amount.

How did your second attempt go paulyman?


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## paulyman (16/8/14)

Haven't tried a second attempt yet. Will be brewing an amber ale during the week, and will try the second attempt once that is bottled. Let us know how the batch turns out Natsta.


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## paulyman (25/8/14)

Have you attempted your brew yet Natsta?

My Amber Ale is coming along nicely, first attempt at rehydrating the yeast before hand, usually just sprinkle it into the fermentor. Wow, I'm used to working with Sourdough starters, so this stuff is amazingly active!

I bought some extracts in the Coopers free shipping deal so will probably adjust my recipe to stay at 25-30 EBC (which seemed right colour wise) and 5.0 ABV. I am intrigued by the concept of a 10 minute APA so may play with that as well, although reading the All Grain thread they suggest 20 minute additions. So I may adjust my 20 minute additions to get to the 40 IBU Shacked suggested and try that without the 60 minute Magnum addition. (Not that the All Grainers were recommending all late additions, I'm just curious).

I guess if I muff it up again its only me drinking it.


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## Natsta (25/8/14)

Yep. It's on it's way. Took a gravity reading on Sunday to see how things were going. The smell is certainly similar but didn't have a JS HP6 on hand to compare. The taste is lacking yet but I still have my dry hop to go so hopefully that brings it on par with the HP6. I made some late changes to the final recipe I used and will post it up at a later date but the IBU's ended up really close to 40 and I think this is about right for this clone. The colour seems a little light but I'll jist have to wait it out to see how far out.


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## BlueMutt (25/8/14)

brzt6060 said:


> Hop Hog is good but if you want the same but better try and find founders all day session IPA.
> 
> Glad the beer is drinkable... I just want to check and see as you said it was really sweet that you did have a stable gravity for 3 days before botterlig didn't you? Don't want any bottle bombs.


I tried a Founders Centennial IPA from a can after a service job at the local Pub, it motivated me to brew a batch the same week. Will be in the keg this weekend, samples are as good as I have done.
Simple, Pilsner malt 95% Crystal 5% Simcoe @60 Centennial @30 and 0


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## Natsta (2/9/14)

Based on colour and aroma this may come somewhere very close to a hop thief. I did my dry hop today and drew a sample to check progress. More bitter than the original but the dry hop should cover some of that. So far I think it's on track. I need this for the weekend on 13th so pushing a little faster than I prefer. 4 weeks total from boil to keg. Hopefully by then it's shining.


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## Natsta (2/9/14)

Oh and the left is the clone beside the original JS HT6 on the right just in case anyone was wondering.


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## paulyman (3/9/14)

Looks really good. What was the recipe you ended up going with?

My next batch arrived today, so will be brewing another batch soon. Will keep you posted.


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## Natsta (3/9/14)

The brew was 45 litres so half it for a standard 23 litre brew. Next attempt will have some of the LDM replaced with LME since I found the sweetness seems low and HT6 has that suttle sweetness.​​As follows;​​Steep in 3.5litres at 65-70;​1kg x Caramunich 3​50gm x Roasted Barley​​30 mins steep time​Sparge grains with an additional 3.5litres and top up to 11 litres for a 30 min boil​​Columbus x 10g @ 20 Mins​Simcoe x 15g @ 20 Mins​Columbus x 15g @ 5 Mins​Simcoe x 40g @ 5 Mins​​Columbus x 20g @ Flameout​Simcoe x 25g @ Flamout​Columbus x35g @ Dryhop 7 days​Simcoe x 80g @ Dryhop 7 days​​2x Coopers Lager cans​2.5kg LDM added at end of boil​​I forgot to add the LDM during boil so wacked it all in at the end. Like I said, this is a little heavy on the bitters (not by much) but should reduce over the next week or so. Also needs a little unfermentable sugar to add to it but who knows? It's not finished yet....​


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## paulyman (7/9/14)

I put the second batch down yesterday. Had to make some changes as craft brewer were out of magnum when I ordered.

Not too different to Natsta's recipe.

Went with:

2.5 kg LDME
450 g medium Crystal
300 g caramunich 2
30 g roasted barley
100 g dextrose (to get to 5% ABV)

10 g Simcoe @ 20
25 g Columbus @ 20
10 g Simcoe @ 5
5 g Columbus @ 5
25 g Simcoe @ 0
15 g Columbus @ 0

Made up to 23 L @ 18 degrees.

US05 pitched and fermenting at 18 degrees.

SG 1048 expecting FG of 1012 and ABV of 5.1%. Ian's spreadsheet predicts an EBC of 29 and IBU of 41.

Will dry hop on day 8 or there abouts depending on how fermentation goes.


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## paulyman (7/9/14)

BlueMutt that sounds nice. Keep us posted.


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## shacked (8/9/14)

Looks like a good brew Paulyman! Keep us posted on your progress with this one mate.


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## Three Sheets (8/9/14)

Thanks for sharing the ideas and pics people.

I've come close with this recipe, one comment was like hop thief but more hoppy. IBU @ 52 might be a bit higher than desired but I think it adds to it.

I've only tried sample bottles and the keg is still a week or two away but its shaping up as a keeper.

So anyone who likes Hop Thief 6 and uses this as a base would go too far wrong. 


1.5 Kg light liquid malt extract
1kg light dry malt
500g of liquid wheat malt (added to 5 litres water for the boil)
250 grams of dextrose
hops bill
Galaxy [email protected]
Columbus [email protected]
Columbus [email protected]
columbus [email protected]
Simcoe [email protected]
Steeped for 10 mins
BRY97 yeast
Dry hopped on day 4

15grams Columbus
15grams Simcoe

22 litres


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## RobboMC (9/9/14)

Please note this comment is a slam at JS and NOT at you excellent home brewers.

I tasted the Hop Thief 6 last week and I thought it should be called flavour thief instead.
My partner gave it a sniff and was highly critical of it for lack of depth. She said it was nothing like some of my good
home brewed stuff. It has the Simcoe aroma and little else.
There is little flavour or bitterness in the background to compliment the aroma.

I have heard of hop driven beers but never before have I found an 'aroma driven' beer.

These recipes are already looking much better than the original. I would just forget the dextrose, so
the beer comes out at 4.8% instead of 5%, so what.
If you really want to, adjust the volume down a bit, or sometimes when I get lazy
I throw in an amount of brew enhancer 2 to up the abv, at least that is 50% malt.


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## paulyman (10/9/14)

Fair call RobboMC, I have made a habit of grabbing a small selection of craft pale ales and IPA's each fortnight since beginning this quest. Started with Hop Hog. My eyes have definitely been opened to all that is out there.

That being said I do love the match of Simcoe and Columbus, it's quite different. I want to nail a close approximation then aim for better.

It's 4 days in on tho second batch and it's the best krausen I've ever seen. I paid very close attention to nailing a consistent temp for my wort in the feementor and my yeast starter. I have a digital temp probe attached to the side and it has sat between 18 and 20 at all times.

Unfortunately I don't have a fermenting fridge yet. But have begun to watch evilbay and gumtree plus the local group here on AHB. I think I've convinced the other half it's a good idea, plus she gets a walk on wardrobe in the bedroom to make way for it in the study.

Once I have that I know my brews will become nice and consistent, then on to BIAB.


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## Three Sheets (10/9/14)

Hey Robbo, did you try Hop Thief on tap or stubby? Reason I say that is I've has some disappointing 5 and 6's when it comes to cartons, but have found the stuff on tap far superior. Not sure why the inconsistency occurs in the stubby but I've found that on a number of occasions with the JS range.

Keep at it Paulyman , let us know how this batch turns out.


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## Natsta (10/9/14)

Haven't found it too bad out the carton. A little light on the bitters but still good. Fair to say it's no Hop Hog but don't have the same price tag either. 

Kegged my batch last night. Aroma is spot on! Flavour and mouthfeel need some work. Next batch I think I want more caramunich and a little more roast barley. Bitters are a tad high for me mainly because the malt isn't balanced.

Personally I think it's a ripper! Slight improvements but well and truly an enjoyable drop.


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## Three Sheets (10/9/14)

paulyman said:


> I put the second batch down yesterday. Had to make some changes as craft brewer were out of magnum when I ordered.
> 
> Not too different to Natsta's recipe.
> 
> ...


Hey Paulyman, I just put your hop bill into Brewmate and it came up with an IBU of 32. I'm beginning to think Brewmate might be a little out.


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## paulyman (10/9/14)

I've just noticed there is an IBU and Calculated IBU cell on the spreadsheet. The calculated IBU says 34.7, so I'd say you are right.


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## Spohaw (13/9/14)

Edit : need to read the whole thread before posting next time

Could be using different hop utilisation tables for their ibu calc

Think you can change which table you want to use on brewmate


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## paulyman (15/9/14)

Dry hopped on the weekend. Was at 1018 and a stable 18C, expecting 1014. Tasted much better than last batch, could sense the bitterness this time. Perhaps still slightly underbittered? Will have to compare to a proper when it's bottled and ready to drink.

The krausen on this batch was amazing, never had one that good before, it's dropping now.

Plan on bottling on Thursday as I have time then, that will be a 5 day dry hop. Will test the gravity on Tuesday and Wednesday to be sure.


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## Natsta (15/9/14)

Sounding good Paulyman! I will be putting a couple new batches down soon. Got 2 empty FV's atm so will give your last recipe a crack and do another with a few variations I've been thinking of.

My dry hop was after the end of fermentation so it I'll be interested to hear if you still get the strong aroma dry hopping at 1018.


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## paulyman (15/9/14)

I'm thinking I'll cut the crystal back next time and try and finish this a bit lower to get it a tad drier. But I'll wait and try the finished product before making that decision.


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## paulyman (21/9/14)

Mine is on the right, the Hop Thief is on the left. (Mine is only 5 days in the bottle so still not fully carbed).

I'll try and detail my findings, although I've never done a side by side before.

Colour - Mine is slightly lighter in colour, there really isn't much in it.

Aroma - Hop thief is more earthy and mine is more citrusy.

Mouthfeel - Mine is much lighter bodied.

Taste - Hop thief tastes more malt driven, while mine is more hop driven. Furthermore: hop thief tastes resiny and piney, while mine tastes citrusy and piney? I'm not sure how better to describe that. Mine also has a slight twang to it, which I'm guessing is the dextrose. (Really shouldnt have bothered with that).

Bitterness - About equal, mine tastes just slightly more bitter.

All up. I'm so much happier with this batch. If I was just brewing an APA I'd be stoked.

As for a Hop Thief clone. As an extract brew I'm not sure I can really play with the malt profile too much, I need to work on the hops. I think the citrus has come from pure late additions? So I might try a 60 and maybe 30 minute addition and see what that brings.

#Edited to fix up the image.


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## paulyman (22/9/14)

Interesting. I had bottled most in James Squire bottles but bottled 3 in 500ml Rekorderling bottles i had lying around. Opened one today, it tastes bang on, earthy and resinous!

So I guess I leave the smaller bottles for a week to loose their green taste.


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## Natsta (24/9/14)

Looking good paulyman! I slightly increased my roast barley in a second batch this weekend for the same reason. Had a nice colour but still closer to a golden ale than the full blood red mahogany of the HF6. I was almost tempted to lower the bitters too but by the time I tapped the second keg I liked just the way it was.

The twang may not just be the dextrose but from the kits themselves. Something I'm happy to live with atm as no room or spare cash to set up a HERMS. Maybe down the track I'll work on it.


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## paulyman (7/10/14)

As an update. Drinking the last 6 pack this week.

Was really really nice. Definitely more citrusy than the real deal, but a real nice APA. Will substitute some earlier hop additions next time to see if that gives it a more pine and earthy taste.

But this will all be on hiatus until I get a ferm fridge. Put in a few bids on evil bay but either been outbid or had the bids pulled. Not cool.

May just bite the bullet and buy a homemaker 115L from Kmart, at least I've seen they fit a fermenter.

Natsta keep us updated on your version.


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## Natsta (7/10/14)

Yeah dry hopped my second batch on the weekend. Next attempt I think I want to include some galaxy to give a bit of passionfruit/tropical flavour. Have not used it before so it will be an interesting experiment. Hopefully a good one though. Somewhere between HT6 and Hop Hog is the aim.

With the fridge. I picked up a couple perfect fridges through facebook bss sites for free. 1 is only 4 years old. Although you have to keep your eyes peeled it may be worth a try paulman.


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## paulyman (7/10/14)

I love Galaxy. Never had issues with grassy tastes just yummy passion fruit.

It does however mellow to a banana lolly kind of flavour after 4 or 5 weeks I've found.


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## paulyman (7/10/14)

Will look at the local facebook pages, that's a good idea.


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## Gigantorus (8/10/14)

On ya Paulyman.

I'm also a Hop Theif lover - though enjoyed the No5 more than No6. But still love the style of beer. 

You might be interested to know that I did a small brew in my old Mr Beer 8.5 Litre keg a few weeks back. Spoke to my local brew shop dude and said I wanted to create a similar batch to Hop Thief and he gave me a can of Coopers Real Ale and said to use that with no sugar and then dry-hop at the end. Well the fermentation (krausen) went crazy but didn't affect the beer and dry-hopped with 100grams of Simcoe pellets (love my hops) and bottled a week or so ago and plan to drink my first one in a week & a half. The brew was in the keg fermenter for a total of 3 weeks - I dry-hopped for the last week. I tried it when I did the bottling and it was amazing - the colour was perfect, the flavours were very similar to Hop Thief. So once the carbonation is up it should be a good brew. I might even try doing a batch in my 30 Litre fermenter - use 2 cans of Coopers Real Ale and 100 grams of Citra or Kohatu hops this time. But anyhoo I'll report back when I drink the first one around the 18th October.

Cheers,
Pete


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## Gigantorus (13/10/14)

Couldn't help myself. Had to try one before the 3rd week came around. My attempt at an APA was not bad. Could have eased back on the amount of hops used (I used 100grams - should have only used half that). She's a thick brew - so very much a "sipping" brew  Not a session beer either. Already formulating the plan/recipe for the next APA. 

Pic attached from yesterday.

Cheers,
Pete


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## Natsta (13/10/14)

I wondered how a can mixed at 8.5L would come out. Probably best to tell your LHBS guy about your experience. Sounds like the heavy malt and bittering would be a real punch in the face!


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## Natsta (13/10/14)

Mine is due to go in the kegs this week. Can't wait!


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## Gigantorus (15/10/14)

Hey Natsta,

Yeah it was a solid meaty brew. The krausen was very fierce too and cracked the tap on the little keg (so I found out when bottling) - it also spewed froth out all over the floor (so be warned). So the 8.5L keg is out of action until I can find another tap to fit it (the standard taps for the 15L and 30L fermenters don't fit the keg). Have already mentioned how it went to my LHBS - he wasn't surprised aboutn the big flavour.

I've since bought a 15L and 30L fermenter and will play with those. I might do another similar batch in the 15L fermenter and fill to 10L mark and just use 50grams of Galaxy as a final dry-hop.

I plan to mix up a batch of the Cooper's Scotch Ale or Fruit Salad Ale (can't make my mind up yet) this weekend in the 30L barrel. http://www.coopers.com.au/diy-beer/beer-recipes/ale/detail/scotch-ale/ http://www.coopers.com.au/diy-beer/beer-recipes/ale/detail/fruit-salad-ale/

Also need to find a brew to do for Christmas.

Look forward to hearing how your batch went too?

Cheers,

Pete


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## brzt6060 (18/10/14)

HT6 was great when it first came out but I had it again the other day and I think they are trying to cut costs or somthing... No where near as good...


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## Natsta (18/10/14)

Yep. Noticed the same thing last week when I grabbed a 6 pack brzt. Put it down to bad storage conditions but you may be right. All the more reason to make a decent clone!


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## Gigantorus (22/10/14)

Tried one of my IPA's on the weekend, which I was expecting to be a better drink than the APA experiment. Expected it to be better because I followed the recipe to the T 

The IPA was very good. Was a bit darker than I expected. But all very nice. It seems all my beers of late are coming our the same dark colour  I guess it could be worse and all the beers tasting like crap. Pic of the IPA below. Has a good carbonation too. I could drink lots of this beer easily.

Laid down a 23L batch of the Coopers Scotch Ale on the weekend. Looking forward to that. Am trying to build a stockpile of beers for the Xmas/New year break.

Cheers,

Pete


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## Gigantorus (22/10/14)

Natsta said:


> Yep. Noticed the same thing last week when I grabbed a 6 pack brzt. Put it down to bad storage conditions but you may be right. All the more reason to make a decent clone!



Hope that's not the case. That was my fav beer of late. Been a few months since I bought some.


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## paulyman (23/10/14)

I haven't tried one for a while, also hope it's not true.


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## Alex.Tas (24/10/14)

I reckon this stuff is boring in the bottle. 
Tastes completely different off tap at the pub. Much much much better.

Gigantorus, i made a toucan brew to ~20L with two real ale cans (similar to your half size 1 can brew) and it was the worst beer ive ever made. way too bitter. Got worse with time too, lost a lot of the dry hop flavours and the little extra i put in as a 5-10 min addition. I hope yours was much better!


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## Gigantorus (24/10/14)

Alex, 

You are right. Very different on tap.

Though my brew was a real smack in the face. I think the main problem was too much dry-hopping. I used 100grams of Simcoe, which was way too much for the size of the batch. All good learnings. I've been addign a little soda water to thin it out, which makes it better to drink.

Cheers,
Pete


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## manticle (24/10/14)

paulyman said:


> Mine is on the right, the Hop Thief is on the left. (Mine is only 5 days in the bottle so still not fully carbed).
> 
> I'll try and detail my findings, although I've never done a side by side before.
> 
> ...


Extract brewers can definitely fiddle with malt profile. Use quality extracts like briess or weyermann and spec grains.


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## menoetes (24/10/14)

Is the above pic the result of your recipe from post 29? I gotta say your colour looks spot on (or so close as to make no difference) and it sounds like it tastes great. I might give it a shot myself as a mini-mash with extract.


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## paulyman (24/10/14)

menoetes said:


> Is the above pic the result of your recipe from post 29? I gotta say your colour looks spot on (or so close as to make no difference) and it sounds like it tastes great. I might give it a shot myself as a mini-mash with extract.


Hey Menoetes,

Yeah that was the recipe from 29. When I do it again I'm going to drop the crystal a bit, just a bit too sweet. Also it came out more fruity and less earthy than the real deal, I think that's from the late additions?

That being said I really enjoyed it, the best brew I had made to date.


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## Gigantorus (27/10/14)

Natsta said:


> I wondered how a can mixed at 8.5L would come out. Probably best to tell your LHBS guy about your experience. Sounds like the heavy malt and bittering would be a real punch in the face!



Hold the phones. Tried another of the Real Ale APA batch on Friday and it's dramatically mellowed and has turned into quite a tasty brew. Amazing what time can do to a beer. Had a small tasting session with some work colleagues with my APA (Coopers Real Ale + dry-hop of 100grams of Simcoe) and the IPA (Mr Beer IPA Can + dry-hop of 50gr Citra & 50gr Galaxy) and the APA was the clear winner. In just over 2 weeks the brew has gone from a punch in the face to quite a mellow and complex brew. Makes me want to try doing maybe a 20Litre batch using 2 cans of Coopers Real Ale + dry-hopping in my 30Litre fermenter. 

Loving this home brew thing. It keeps throwing up little surprises all the time.

Cheers, Pete


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## Gigantorus (7/11/14)

Tried a Hop Thief 6 on tap at my local last weekend and have to agree that the recipe has changed. Its now a very watery and boring ale sadly.

Gonna try and replicate the APA I made which killed my small barrel. Gonna use the 15Litre fermenter I have and do a 10litre batch using one Real Ale can and water and nothing else again. Then will dry-hop at end of 2nd week with 100grams of Centennial, then bottle at end of the 3rd week. This brew really benefited from the long conditioning in the bottle. So probably won't touch the first one until new years eve. Just gotta watch that early fermenting activity, which was crazy the last time.

Cheers, Pete


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## Droopy Brew (7/11/14)

I have tried this beer twice and brewed a clone twice.
First taste was at the Brisbane Casino and I thought it was bloody good.
I went about making a clone (extract) and it was very nice.
Recipe was:
1 tin Morgans PAle, 1 Tin Morgans Caramalt, 500g dry malt, 250g of Crystal 50.
10G each Simcoe and Citra at 45min, 25g of each at 10min and 10g of each at 5min.
22L batch, 5% abv, 35IBU.
Citra instead of Columbus but was very good.

A week after I found myself in Mt ISa and they had it on tap. Was watery and bland- my extract brew shit on it.

Second clone was similar but used Columbus instead of Citra and turned out a fair bit more bitter. Still nice but.

Point is these hoppy beers vary widely with how they are transported and handled so the last one you had may not be representative of all HT6s.


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## Gigantorus (21/11/14)

Was up at the Grand Central Hotel bar this week and had a schooner ogf Hop Thief 6 and it tasted like the old original version. Hope this continues to be my experience.


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## Gigantorus (4/12/14)

Gigantorus said:


> Tried a Hop Thief 6 on tap at my local last weekend and have to agree that the recipe has changed. Its now a very watery and boring ale sadly.
> 
> Gonna try and replicate the APA I made which killed my small barrel. Gonna use the 15Litre fermenter I have and do a 10litre batch using one Real Ale can and water and nothing else again. Then will dry-hop at end of 2nd week with 100grams of Centennial, then bottle at end of the 3rd week. This brew really benefited from the long conditioning in the bottle. So probably won't touch the first one until new years eve. Just gotta watch that early fermenting activity, which was crazy the last time.
> 
> Cheers, Pete


Once the current pale ale brew is bottled, I'm going to see if I can replicate the original small batch brew I did with the single can of Coopers Real Ale & water, plus dry-hopping for the final 7 days. Will use the 30Litre fermenter this time and only make a 10Litre brew, which should leave plenty of room for the expected major krausen eruption - though might add an extra hose fitting in the lid and run a length of 3/4 inch hose into a 1/2 filled bucket in case the krausen needs more room. Will dry-hop with galaxy & amarillo this time.

Cheers,

Pete


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## Mattrox (30/12/14)

I'm messing around with my Hop Burglar on the spreadsheet. 
1.5kg LME
1.5kg AME
0.5kg LDM
0.25kg Med Crystal
0.15kg Caramunich 

To get 5.0% ABV the brew is 25 L
EBC 22.9



Hop Bill
20g Columbus @30
20g Columbus @ 15
20g Simcoe @ 15
10g Columbus @ 5
15g Simcoe @ 5
15g Simcoe @ flameout

Still tweaking though, while both FVs are full.

With a 6L boil I get 34.9 IBU.


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## paulyman (30/12/14)

Looks good Mattrox.


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## Mattrox (2/1/15)

paulyman said:


> I put the second batch down yesterday. Had to make some changes as craft brewer were out of magnum when I ordered.
> 
> Not too different to Natsta's recipe.
> 
> ...


I just wanted to check something with you. What attenuation do you have for US05 in your spreadsheet. I had a look at the US05 specs and it says it should attenuate to 81% ...... if I use 81 instead of 75 I get 5.5% ABV bottled.

I noticed early on that the attenuation I am actually getting is generally higher than I originally expected, lower than predicted FG readings. I haven't used US05 yet so I don't know what to expect.


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## paulyman (2/1/15)

To be honest I just went with the spreadsheet default, never thought to change it. Looking at the spreadsheet it says 75%, my extract brews usually finish only 1 or 2 points either side of the predicted FG so have never thought to change it.


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## btrots87 (28/1/15)

Been reading this thread and it's inspired me to have a go at a hop thief clone myself. Took a lot of inspiration from paulyman after seeing his side by side pictures so here is what I'm planning. 

20L batch 
10L boil

1.5kg light LME
1kg light DME
0.3kg wheat DME
0.3kg crystal 60
0.3kg caramunich 2
40g roasted barley

10g Columbus 60min
10g Columbus 30min
20g Simcoe 20min
25g Simcoe 5min
Dry hop 10g Simcoe and 10g Columbus 5 days

US05 yeast at 18C
OG 1048
FG 1012
ABV ~5% bottled 
IBU 40


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