# The Supermarket Challenge



## tgilbert (22/3/08)

Hi all. This may have been touched on in different topics, but doesn't seem to have been brought together in one place for comparison. I am usually a brew shop brewer (Morgans kits, Brewmaster(?) liquids, etc), but I have decided to have a crack at what lives on my supermarket shelf and see what results I can get from it.

I am reasonable well kitted out with a fermenter, temp control brewing fridge, dual keg serving fridge, CO2, etc. Maybe better set up than the average supermarket brewer, but not very experienced yet. I've done about 8 brews so far with pretty good results (so my friends tell me anyway). I find it all pretty drinkable after a month or so anyway (or after 4-5 glasses too).

My first test is a Cascade Golden Harvest (not really a first time as this was one I did when my kit was new and I was even newer). Using Coopers Brew Enhancer No 2 for this brew and the standard yeast. Brewed for 7 days at 25 degrees or so in the bar (20 litre mix). SG came down to about 1004 which is pretty good. Came off the fermenter very clean and was conditioned for a week at 1 degree C in the serving fridge (in a corny keg), then decanted into another keg to eliminate any residue and is now on the gas at 5 psi for two days. Had a taste this afternoon and it's a bit wishy-washy at the moment, but strong as. Hope it matures into something nice.

Second test is a Coopers Cerveza, again using Coopers Brew Enhancer No 2 and the standard yeast. This one is brewing in the brew fridge at 20 degrees C (something I read here somewhere I think) and only went into the fermenter yesterday. I will probably let this one bubble for two weeks before decanting it to a keg for cold conditioning at 1 degree, probably again for two weeks at this stage, then not sure. I might bottle it. Don't really know yet.

So who cooks supermarket tins? And what results do you get? Are there any special tips to get the best results out of these kits?

By the way, my best brews so far were Morgans Queensland Bitter from a tin; James Squires Golden Ale from liquid wort; an Irish Red from a liquid wort with a hops bag; and a Saaz Pilsener from a tin using saflager yeast and cooked at 12 degrees.


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## 0M39A (22/3/08)

if you have a temp controlled fridge, why would you ever ferment an ale at 25C?


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## tgilbert (22/3/08)

0M39A said:


> if you have a temp controlled fridge, why would you ever ferment an ale at 25C?



Ahh, well that would be because the instructions said it was a 24-28 degree brewing kit. As I said, I am not that experienced yet, still experimenting.

By the way, my Saaz Pilsener above was made with a SafAle yeast, not a SafLager of course.

Tony


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## 0M39A (22/3/08)

no safale yeasts would ferment at 12C, it would have to have been a saflager yeast to work at those temps.

step 1. of brewing from cans: throw away the instructions, and brew to how we tell you here 

doing well not using any table sugar with your brews. the next improvement you could make (aside from sorting out your temperatures) would be to move away from the "brew enhancers" and just buy plain old malt from your homebrew store. 

I assume you have a good cleaning regime already?


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## gerald (22/3/08)

ignore all instructions generally. its what i learnt here very quickly. most of those tins recomend temperatures higher than desirable to make people think it is easier than it is. if you read the instructions and it says, 28 degrees and a bag of sugar is all you need, well thats a piece of piss as they say. but keeping it at 18 or 19 (optimal for ales) well thats a bit tougher and sugar shouldnt make up a large quantity of your fermentables. anyway...

yeah, ignore instructions, read here more. 

ales - 18-20*C

havnt done heaps of supermarket kits myself, but i did a 2can one with coopers lager tin and coopers dark ale and a small amount of dex. its very hoppy but is calming down after 2 or so months. not heaps full bodied but its ok. definitly worth the extra few bucks to shop at a HBS.

cyuzzzz
gerald


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## Sammus (22/3/08)

Another note, the yeast that comes with kits is usually designed to work best at a regular australian room temperature ie 20-25C or whatever. Only obey the 18-20C law if you are buying an aftermarket yeast that is designed for that temperature range.


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## tgilbert (22/3/08)

Yes, I do keep cleanliness next to godliness in beer making.

Now this may sound like a silly question, but how much difference is a good yeast really going to make to a supermarket brew kit? A good yeast from a HBS can cost almost as much as the kit.

And how low can you go? As I said, my Cerveza is using kit yeast and is bubbling away merrily at 20 degrees in the fridge. I guess its range is about 19-28?

Sorry if these sound like ignorant questions, but as I said I am still experimenting to figure out what works and what doesn't.


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## goomboogo (22/3/08)

TonyG,

Your questions have nothing to do with ignorance, they are merely questions. After eight brews you should have questions. After eight hundred brews you should still have questions.

In response to your question regarding fermentation temperatures, the thing to remember is the temperatures often refered to as optimal are precisely that, optimal. This doesn't mean that they won't work (i.e ferment) at higher temperatures. An Ale yeast that has an optimal range of 16c - 20c will ferment at 28c to 30c but there will be consequences. You will have alcohol in your beer but your beer will not taste like reasonable beer. It will taste like shite.

As Sammus alluded to in an earlier post, the ideal operating temperature for a yeast depends on the strain of yeast. So it's a case of knowing the product you choose to use. Maybe someone here knows the strain of yeast used in the Coopers kits and this may help you in the future.


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## braufrau (23/3/08)

My 2 tips ...

1) Check the date on the supermarket kits. Don't use anything older than 6 months. Coopers have a manufactured date .. day/year eg 290/07
Don't know about cascade. If you get a taste like biro ink, the kit was too old.

2) Culture coopers yeast. Since you baulk at the cost of HBS yeast, you can get coopers yeast for free-ish. There are instructions on the wiki. Its a really good yeast, IMO, and will make your pale ales etc. taste more authentic.


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## hanzie (23/3/08)

Hi TonyG

I have only tried one Supermarket brew. It was a Coopers pale ale with 500g dex and 500g Coopers dry malt all from coles. I threw the yeast away and used the yeast out of 2 bottles of Coopers pale ale. 6 weeks later and it is tasting great, exactly what I was aiming for. 

I also have a Dragon stout clone in my fermenter and more than half of the fermentables come from coles. 

See I can sneak it in the shopping so SWMBO dont complain about how much I spend at my local HBS. everyone wins.


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## braufrau (23/3/08)

I've made a nice stout from the supermarket in the past.
But not as nice as the stout HWMBO is drinking now which is almost an allgrain. I think I used 900g of extract.
But I was thinking it might be possible to get a similar brew with two pale ale kits and the same crystal/chocolate malt/roast barley
as I used for my partial.
And some sugar.
Hmmm. haven't got the recipe here, have to wait 'til I get home.


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## tgilbert (24/3/08)

Hanzie said:


> I have only tried one Supermarket brew. It was a Coopers pale ale with 500g dex and 500g Coopers dry malt all from coles. I threw the yeast away and used the yeast out of 2 bottles of Coopers pale ale. 6 weeks later and it is tasting great, exactly what I was aiming for.
> 
> I also have a Dragon stout clone in my fermenter and more than half of the fermentables come from coles.
> 
> See I can sneak it in the shopping so SWMBO dont complain about how much I spend at my local HBS. everyone wins.



Hi Hanzie, yes I also can sneak the kits into the shopping trolley without impertinent questions (like "didn't you buy beer last week/month/year") which is why I'm interested in supermarket kits at the moment.

Can you explain what you mean about using the yeast out of two bottles of pale ale? How do you do that?

I've been to a demo of using and re-using liquid yeasts, which seems like a great idea. But I don't think I brew enough yet to make that sustainable.

Can I extract the yeast out of another home brew? For example, if I did say a liquid wort Golden Ale (which I do love) with a HBS SafAle yeast, could I extract and re-use that yeast in a supermarket brew?

Tony

PS: It's not that I baulk at the cost of HBS yeasts, just have reservations about spending more on the yeast than the wort!


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## microbe (24/3/08)

Do a search for "harvesting" or "culturing" yeast and that should give you some answers - probably more questions too... 

Cheers,

microbe


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## Hutch (24/3/08)

TonyG said:


> It's not that I baulk at the cost of HBS yeasts, just have reservations about spending more on the yeast than the wort!



I don't know how much your HBS charges for yeast, but it certainly shouldn't be anywhere near as much as the cost of wort. CraftBrewer (site sponsor) sells yeast for $3-4, and has an excellent reputation (vacuum sealed, etc.).

Yeast and temperature control are the 2 biggest improvements you can make to your basic kit, having already ditched the sugar in favour of LME or brew-enhancer.

Even amongst dry yeasts, there is a large variety in results. In my opinion the SafAle S-04 is particularly objectionable, with much better results coming from Safale US-05 or Danstar Nottingham for Ales, or Safale S-189 for lagers. If you do a bulk purchase from said sponsor, the shipping cost would be negligable.

If you want to take the next step, start re-using your yeasts from the fermenter slurry. They last for several months in a fridge, and the practice makes it affordable to use liquid yeast from the HBS (this practice demands a very strict sterilisation regime)

At the end of the day, you want to brew the best beer you can from the Supermarket kits, which from the outset means ditching the kit instructions and kit yeast. Only then can you make a real comparison of the quality of each kit.

It's surprising how nice a beer you can actually make from a fresh kit, with good yeast, temperature control and malt/dex. Have fun experimenting!


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## tcraig20 (24/3/08)

Talking about supermarkets - anyone know if woolworths is open today? I want to go pick up some stuff but dont want to walk all the way there if they arent open.

Edit: sorry to go OT


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## Tim F (24/3/08)

JamesCraig said:


> Talking about supermarkets - anyone know if woolworths is open today? I want to go pick up some stuff but dont want to walk all the way there if they arent open.
> 
> Edit: sorry to go OT



Opening hours for your local woolies can all be found on their website


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## microbe (24/3/08)

woolworths.com.au IIRC Sunday trading hours

Cheers,

microbe

*Edit* - _beaten... damn!_


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## tcraig20 (24/3/08)

Tim F said:


> Opening hours for your local woolies can all be found on their website



Bugger me. Its amazing the difference a day makes. I spent 20 minutes yesterday looking for that before I gave up, and just found it in 20 seconds today. Thanks guys.


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## Flipper79 (24/3/08)

TonyG,

as far as supermaket kits go I have only brewed 2, a tooheys special lager and a tooheys special draft.

I didn't do anything fancy with them, rehydrated the yeast in warm water for an hour before pitching, and fermented at 22deg for 13days with a coopers beer enhancer sugar pack (I think its around 500g dex 250g malt 250g corn syrup), and a table spoon of sugar in each bottle.

Before anyone flames me on my methods this was about 7 months ago and my methods are vastly different now...

My first impresions were that the beer was shit, and I swore that I would never buy another one of these kits but I left 6 tallies in the fridge for months on end and they seemed to get better and better as the months passed. I just drank the last one the other week after it had been in the fridge for about 5 months and it was deffinitly one of the better beers I have brewed.

So...supermarket kits might be ok but even if they do get as good as a kit purchased from the LHBS they need months of cold conditioning to get there, my advice would be to save yourself the hassel and go straight to the LHBS and grab a morgans kit.


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## ben.robinson (24/3/08)

TonyG, Interested on how your CC turns out , I tried one about a month ago with the same ingreds; and was not very good had a strong honey flavour , but far as the supermarket kits go I,ve had some mixed result (coopers lager,apa,tooheys p.LAGER, baverian lager all have not BEEN bad)


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## Henno (24/3/08)

I still dabble with kits for speed and to get my third or fourth keg full.

I once made the coopers sparkling ale and on the instructions as well as their site it calls for the kit +1.5kg Thomas Coopers Light Malt Extract, 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt and 300g Coopers Dextrose. It turned out pretty dam good and not very 'kitty' at all. 

Can anybody tell me how much malt dry or liquid to replace the 300g of dex with, if anything.

I also want to try reusing CPA yeast from a stubby or two for this one. I do ferment in one of several temp control fridges so would 18 degrees do the CPA sludge?

Sory to hijack


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## tgilbert (30/3/08)

beno said:


> TonyG, Interested on how your CC turns out , I tried one about a month ago with the same ingreds; and was not very good had a strong honey flavour , but far as the supermarket kits go I,ve had some mixed result (coopers lager,apa,tooheys p.LAGER, baverian lager all have not BEEN bad)



Hi Beno,

Well here's the first report on my supermarket brews. The Cascade Golden Harvest, which was probably pitched too warm and fermented at room temps (26-27 during the day) for just 8 days, then conditioned for a week in the keg at 1 degree, has now been in the serving keg for two weeks or so. This brew was made with the yeast under the lid and a Coopers Brew Enhancer No 2. The first pour was horrible and I was tempted to toss it out, but I'm glad I didnt. It is now tasting really good and developing a nice strong head (although it does seem to flatten fairly quickly). It is a stronger brew (alcohol content) than I expected, but that might be because I only made it up to 20 litres. Definitely a beer my father would have approved of. And crystal clear out of the keg, by the way, with no filtering.

FYI, I noticed that this particular kit is also sold in the local HBS, for about 50% more than I paid at Coles. So I guess it's one of the better supermarket kits.

The second supermarket kit, the Cooper's Cerveza, also made with the yeast under the lid and Coopers Brew Enhancer No 2, is now in the conditioning keg. It fermented for 10 days at 20 degrees, but I suspect it should have stayed in longer. I got impatient. The Cerveza also came out of the fermenter crystal clear. I will condition it for two weeks before doing anything more with it.

Now, here's an interesting question for the purists. A Cerveza is, to my mind, supposed to be drunk from the bottle with a twist of lemon in the neck. So is this a beer I really should be bottling, rather than kegging? I am thinking probably so. If yes, my plan is to drop 500g of white sugar into 500 ml of hot water, mix well to dissolve, then pour the brew and the sugar mix into the carbuoy, before bottling to PETs (I have no glass). Does this sound about right?

My next brew is going to be a Tooheys Real Ale. But I am going to use two kits for this mix, with standard yeast (mixed in warm water for 30 minutes before pitching) and Brew Enhancer No 2 again (because it produces good results). Any suggestions about the fermenting temperature and time for this one? I am thinking 24 degrees for about 10 days because ale yeasts usually work best at around room temp. Is this right?

Keep up the comments and suggestions by the way. Very helpful.

Tony


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## RobboMC (31/3/08)

I also gave myself the 'supermarket challenge' to see how good a beer I could make with ingredients ONLY from the supermarket. My best result was with Coopers Pale Ale. Add a KG of Brew Enhancer 2 AND a 500g pack of Light Dry Malt and brew at 19 deg C. Used the kit yeast, I guess that's a given in this challenge. Consider filling to only 19 litres.

The result after 3 months in the bottle was a fairly decent beer.

Possibly could get a similar good result with the new European lager kit. The old Bavarian lager was Ok but improved with some hops from the HBS.

Bottom line is there's a limit to where you can get to without a HBS.


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## tgilbert (31/3/08)

wally said:


> Tony, you'll be making bottle bombs with that amount of sugar to a standard batch size.
> 
> Have a look at this link for some info on bulk priming.
> 
> Wally



Hi Wally,

Bottle bombs? That's my middle name! Actually, early on in my brewing experience, I made a batch of 12 degree Saaz Pilsener. I bottled it straight into the fridge with two carbonation drops per bottle. About 5 weeks later, I cracked the first bottle and it was almost flat, so I opened up all the rest (PET bottles) and added two more carbonation drops each, thinking that something had gone wrong with the first lot. Didn't know at the time that secondary carb takes a lot longer at low temps. That brew packed a fizz like Coke. Lucky I used PET bottles or it would have been grandma's ginger beer all over again I suspect.

But thanks for the tip about bulk priming. Very helpful article. Still not sure what they mean about oxidisation from backsplash while racking. I like a fairly bubbly beer, so I guess I'll go the high rate carbonation, even though this kit probably only warrants medium carbonation.

Cheers, Tony


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## jojai (31/3/08)

When you see waves break on the beach they lap over themselves, splash and foam up, the foam is from the water aerating. The same thing happens when you splash your home brew and I think embedding oxygen into beers can increase the risk of infection? 

As for you temperature question, being a n00b myself I was just recently informed that ales are best fermented at 16-19C.


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## Sammus (31/3/08)

TonyG said:


> Now, here's an interesting question for the purists. A Cerveza is, to my mind, supposed to be drunk from the bottle with a twist of lemon in the neck. So is this a beer I really should be bottling, rather than kegging? I am thinking probably so.



Were you under that impression because Corona says cerveza on the label? Nearly every beer does if you look at the foreign language bit at the back. I'm no purist, but I'm a bees dick short of 100% sure that cerveza is just spanish for 'beer'.

And for what its worth the only beer that's supposed to be drunk with a twist of lemon is one that tastes so much like actual piss by itself that you need to disguise the taste by adding flavours post ferment <_<


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## schooey (31/3/08)

Sammus said:


> ...the only beer that's supposed to be drunk with a twist of lemon is one that tastes so much like actual piss by itself that you need to disguise the taste by adding flavours post ferment..



:lol: I reckon I might quote that it in my sig if I ever make one


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## Sammus (31/3/08)

schooey said:


> :lol: I reckon I might quote that it in my sig if I ever make one



just a little rant stemming from one of my many pet hates


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## tgilbert (1/4/08)

jojai said:


> When you see waves break on the beach they lap over themselves, splash and foam up, the foam is from the water aerating. The same thing happens when you splash your home brew and I think embedding oxygen into beers can increase the risk of infection?
> 
> As for you temperature question, being a n00b myself I was just recently informed that ales are best fermented at 16-19C.



I have read that too, but I'd have thought that implies using something other than the yeast under the lid.

Tony


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## tgilbert (1/4/08)

The next exciting instalment in the Supermarket Challenge started tonight. I changed my mind (woman's prerogative, eh) and bought a Cooper's European Lager (I liked the green can) which is mixed up in the fermenter with 500g of Cooper's light malt and 250g of dextrose, cooling down before I add the yeast.







My plan is to let the mix cool to about 19 degrees, then pitch the (lager) yeast in some warm water and let it cool to the same temp in the brew fridge overnight. Then I'll drain and introduce the yeast to the mix and cool both to about 16 degrees once I get some indication of fermentation starting (maybe next day).

Hope to ferment this brew at 16 degrees for 21 days. Then cold condition it for another 21 days before I gas it up and see how it tastes.

Anyone care to speculate on what SG I might end up with for this brew?

Tony


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## dc59 (1/4/08)

Hey mate your FG reading will depend on volume it was made up to. Expect it to be just under 10 but here's the link to a calc. you can use.

Hope it goes well.


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## OzBeer_MD (1/4/08)

Sammus said:


> I'm no purist, but I'm a bees dick short of 100% sure that cerveza is just spanish for 'beer'.


I think you're right, was talking to someone about that just today.



Sammus said:


> And for what its worth the only beer that's supposed to be drunk with a twist of lemon is one that tastes so much like actual piss by itself that you need to disguise the taste by adding flavours post ferment <_<



RoFL Thats GOLD! :beer: 

Last time I drank Corona I got a bad headache. 

MD


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## Rossco (2/4/08)

TonyG said:


> The next exciting instalment in the Supermarket Challenge started tonight. I changed my mind (woman's prerogative, eh) and bought a Cooper's European Lager (I liked the green can) which is mixed up in the fermenter with 500g of Cooper's light malt and 250g of dextrose, cooling down before I add the yeast.



Hi Tony,

I will probably get flamed for this but IMO, supermarket brewing is a great/cheap way to get started and learn the very basics of brewing.

Its how i started and now im more excited about brewing than ever before. My next brew is a Partial Hoegaarden from grumpy's then i will be trying an AG.

Anyhoo, I have brewed a lot of the coopers range:

2*Pale Ale
Pilsner
Sparkling
Bavarian
Cerveza
Euro Larger

All turned out pretty good. The Cerveza taste's VERY close to an actual corona (infact i have bottled it in corona bottles and the majority of people couldnt tell the difference). Im going to do another pale with the coopers bottle yeast which should be tops!

I have tried one of my euro largers (12 weeks in the bottle and i was a little impatient) and first impressions were that its pretty much a bavarian with a different (real larger?) yeast. Pretty good as well.

My favourite by far was the sparkling. Dark, malty and beautiful (the last bottles were a year old)

You can get good results from supermarket brewing, but after trying a partial & AG they are at another level all together.


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## tgilbert (2/4/08)

Rossco, can I ask you about your tastes in commercial beers? Given that you prefer more expensive mixes, I wonder if you would choose a commercial beer over a home brew if offered the choice?

For me, I am getting to a point where I don't consider commercial beers worth the money any more. In fact I'd choose my home brew over most commercial beers any day (when I get them right). I think that sometimes influences what you brew. 

I've tried various liquid mixes with HBS yeasts and additives, which pushes the brew cost up to $40-50 and more. I'm not even sure they are worth the extra cost, although I am partial to the Irish Red and the Golden Ale liquids.

Tony


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## Rossco (2/4/08)

TonyG said:


> Rossco, can I ask you about your tastes in commercial beers? Given that you prefer more expensive mixes, I wonder if you would choose a commercial beer over a home brew if offered the choice?
> 
> For me, I am getting to a point where I don't consider commercial beers worth the money any more. In fact I'd choose my home brew over most commercial beers any day (when I get them right). I think that sometimes influences what you brew.
> 
> ...



I very rarely buy beer any more. Heck the last time I bought commercial beer it was only to get the corona bottles  

I would choose a properly done (temp/yeast etc) homebrew kit (even a coopers supermarket tin...but not their 'original series') over a commercial beer anytime.

Regardless if it costs $50 for a brew, you still getting 19-20 litres of golden goodness, compared to say $35 a slab for 9 litres (24*375ml) of *insert brand here*. Yes its more time consuming in the cleaning & checking etc, but WELL worth the effort to say "I Farken brewed that!"

What i love about brewing is the fact there are so many different varieties/methods/ingerdients to choose from it virtually endless and there is a brew for everyone's taste

After my dirty hoe, im going to have a go at a little creatures Pale and something like a beamish RED or caffrey's


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## boingk (3/4/08)

Rossco - dead on! I bought my first case of beer in a whole year the other week and felt a little sad and a little glad - sad because I knew I could have put down 2.5 cases worth for the same price, glad because it was the 1 year anniversary of my brewing journey!

I always enjoy the whole "i made this" thing about DIY jobs. Even simple stuff like cooking your own cakes or whatever - surprising how much better they are then bought. Same deal with HB.

Cheers - boingk

PS: Keeping it on topic, one of the best kits I've bought from the supermarket turned out to be a good old Cascade Porter! Added 1kg dark liquid malt, 5oog yellowbox honey and 20g Cascade hops [should have used goldings!]. Came out a treat, especially after 4 to 6 months.


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## tgilbert (4/4/08)

A new instalment in the supermarket challenge saga ... my lager yeast doesn't seem to have fired. It's now day three since I pitched it in a jug of warm water. I left it on the bench for an hour or so, then popped it in the fridge to cool to the same temp as the fermenter mix (20 degrees). I checked it in the morning and it appeared to be developing, so I aerated the wort and stirred it in. Since then I have seen no fermentation activity at all.

Have I killed my yeast? Can I add a fresh yeast batch to the brew? Am I risking infection by having the brew sitting there without an active yeast?

Tony


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## l7edwards (4/4/08)

TonyG said:


> A new instalment in the supermarket challenge saga ... my lager yeast doesn't seem to have fired. It's now day three since I pitched it in a jug of warm water. I left it on the bench for an hour or so, then popped it in the fridge to cool to the same temp as the fermenter mix (20 degrees). I checked it in the morning and it appeared to be developing, so I aerated the wort and stirred it in. Since then I have seen no fermentation activity at all.
> 
> Have I killed my yeast? Can I add a fresh yeast batch to the brew? Am I risking infection by having the brew sitting there without an active yeast?
> 
> Tony



I'm currently fermenting a coopers euro lager and had a similar problem with the yeast. I pitched it (no starter) at about 20-22*C, put it in the esky outside - checked it the next day and the temp went down to about 12 and it hadnt started yet. So i took it out (rose to about 16*) gave a bit of a swirl and went to work. Came home and it was off like a rocket couldnt even get a second between bubbles. Other than that im not sure if you've killed the yeast, aerating the wort might have added to this, if theres no sign in the next 24hours i think you should consider a new yeast


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## tgilbert (4/4/08)

l7edwards said:


> I'm currently fermenting a coopers euro lager and had a similar problem with the yeast. I pitched it (no starter) at about 20-22*C, put it in the esky outside - checked it the next day and the temp went down to about 12 and it hadnt started yet. So i took it out (rose to about 16*) gave a bit of a swirl and went to work. Came home and it was off like a rocket couldnt even get a second between bubbles. Other than that im not sure if you've killed the yeast, aerating the wort might have added to this, if theres no sign in the next 24hours i think you should consider a new yeast



Hi, strangely enough the Coopers leaflet had virtually no instructions about how to pitch the yeast, although it does point out that this is a 'true lager yeast' and so behaves differently to other yeasts. So I rang the Coopers help line (first time ever) and asked their advice. The guy on the phone was extremely helpful and pointed out that bubbles aren't the only sign of primary fermentation - condensation under the lid of the fermenter and froth on top of the mix are sure signs too. My brew had both of those signs, so he thought there was probaby air escaping from the lid of the fermenter. I have now taken the lid off, given the o-ring a good clean-up and put it back on. We'll see how that goes. Should see bubbles within 24 hours if he's right. If not, might have to abandon that mix because I think it will be too late to add another yeast, even though it's now at 14 degrees.

Tony


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## Hefty (4/4/08)

TonyG said:


> The guy on the phone was extremely helpful and pointed out that bubbles aren't the only sign of primary fermentation - condensation under the lid of the fermenter and froth on top of the mix are sure signs too. My brew had both of those signs...I have now taken the lid off, given the o-ring a good clean-up and put it back on. We'll see how that goes. Should see bubbles within 24 hours if he's right. If not, might have to abandon that mix


 If it has both of these signs, keep it *even if it doesn't bubble now that you've cleaned the o-ring etc*. If the yeast is showing activity such as froth on the top of the brew then it's doing its job. Even if you don't have a perfect seal, the CO2 being formed will still help keep nasties out. Just keep watching the krausen (froth) and keep testing the SG with your hydrometer.
If it was a bad batch of yeast then you've only lost $20ish of ingredients and one or two weeks where you might have started another brew. But if it was good and you throw it out now, you'll never know.

Jono.


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## staggalee (4/4/08)

TonyG said:


> Hi, strangely enough the Coopers leaflet had virtually no instructions about how to pitch the yeast, although it does point out that this is a 'true lager yeast' and so behaves differently to other yeasts. So I rang the Coopers help line (first time ever) and asked their advice. The guy on the phone was extremely helpful and pointed out that bubbles aren't the only sign of primary fermentation - condensation under the lid of the fermenter and froth on top of the mix are sure signs too. My brew had both of those signs, so he thought there was probaby air escaping from the lid of the fermenter. I have now taken the lid off, given the o-ring a good clean-up and put it back on. We'll see how that goes. Should see bubbles within 24 hours if he's right. If not, might have to abandon that mix because I think it will be too late to add another yeast, even though it's now at 14 degrees.
> 
> Tony



While you were on the Coopers Help Line, you should have mentioned your previous post about priming 22.5l. of beer with 500g. of sugar. I know what he would have said.  

stagga.


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## andrewg1978 (4/4/08)

Guys,

I have been through the coopers range as well. By far the pale is the best from my view, however with the winter months coming up I just invested in a genuine Guiness tap from ebay and and brewed 22ltrs of standard coopers stout. The result - AWSOME, even the creamy head with smaller bubbles (No nitrogen, just CO2). I never have to go out for a pint of Guiness again. The first night I tapped the keg with my mate we drank it all night until we could not drink any more at about 5am the next morning while sitting around a fire watching the footy and rugby (only interuppted by a few coopers draughts on the other tap). 

Re commercial beer I even invested in a chiller plate so I can take my own brew to friends houses using gel pack ice, there is nothing better!!!!!

Yet to try 

Coopers Ale, Blonde, euro larger but I think these will be my next 3.


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## tgilbert (4/4/08)

I am so pleased to hear other home brewers rave about how much better their own beer is than the commercial equivalents. I was starting to think that I was "drinking my own piss", so to speak. I have felt this way since about the third brew I made. Every now and then I don't plan properly and I have to buy commercial beer (and when we go out for dinner), but I really don't enjoy it the way I used to. Prefer my home brew any time.

And Stagga, I hope you've never made a mistake 

Tony


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## tgilbert (4/4/08)

Hefty said:


> Just keep watching the krausen (froth) and keep testing the SG with your hydrometer.



Hi Jono, what precisely am I watching for in the froth? Am I looking for it to disappear, or to change in some way?

Tony


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## microbe (8/4/08)

Hey Tony,

The krausen (froth) is an indicator that fermentation is taking place. When (if) it dies down it indicatates slowing or stopped fermentation.

A better indicator is your hydrometer - you should be able to estimate your FG (Final/Finishing? Gravity) using something like this, once you have a stabilised reading over two-three days, you're good to bottle/keg.

Cheers,

microbe


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## ibast (8/4/08)

andrewg1978 said:


> I have been through the coopers range as well. By far the pale is the best from my view, however with the winter months coming up I just invested in a genuine Guiness tap from ebay and and brewed 22ltrs of standard coopers stout. The result - AWSOME, even the creamy head with smaller bubbles (No nitrogen, just CO2). .




I find the Cooper's stout too sweet. Try the Morgans with with 1.5 kg of liquid dark malt.

BoT. I don't really consider Cooper's a supermarket brew, though I suspect their basic kits (lager, bitter etc) could be classified as such.

The Coopers yeast will handle low-mid 20s, temperature wise. The others won't handle mid-twenties.

I find a lot of kits yeast is too sensitive to brew in Sydney without a brew fridge.


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## RobboMC (8/4/08)

Don't abandon any mix until you measure the gravity. If the gravity is reducin' then she's fermentin'.

Also try pouring boiling water over the lid and seal before twisting onto fermenter. This softens the ring and makes a better seal,
but be warned, this can make it farking hard to get off a week later. 

You won't kill a yeast by cooling, just send it dormant. If it doesn't start to fire up let the fermenter warm to 20 deg. I have found the Coopers yeasts to be pretty robust temperature wise, I've brewed the old Bavarian Lager down to 14 deg C and the ales down to 15 deg C without problems.


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## tgilbert (11/4/08)

Hi all,

Just a quick update on my supermarket challenge series so far. The situation is:

- On tap: Cascade Golden Harvest (in fridge at 1 degree)
- Carbonating: Cooper's Cerveza (in fridge at 1 degree)
- Fermenting: Cooper's Euro Lager (in fridge at 14 degrees)

The Golden Harvest just gets better and better with each glass I pour from the keg (and I don't mean as I get drunker!). It's a very creditable brew and one I will definitely be brewing again. But I might experiment more with yeasts and I wouldn't mind trying this with a double kit brew for more flavour. A touch subtle.

I sampled the Cerveza tonight and was very suprised. I thought I'd accidentally kegged it too early because I misread the final SG readings (in a hurry). I expected it to be very immature and low in alcohol. But it's neither. It has a crisp and slightly fruity flavour and a very decent kick to it. I think it will mature very nicely. Will update later.

The Euro Lager is looking very promising too. After a near disastrous start when I thought I had killed the yeast, it has now been brewing for two weeks at 14 degrees and is showing an SG of 1030 which is better than I would have expected given how little fermentation activity I've been able to observe. This translates to an alcohol content of 5%. It has a sharpish but interesting flavour (hell, can't let a hydrometer full go totally to waste) that I look forward to tasting with some gas behind it.

So my conclusion at this early stage is that supermarket kits (using only what I can buy at the local Coles) can produce surprisingly good results for less than $20 a brew. That works out to around 30-35 cents a glass. Cheap beer by anyone's reckoning I think.

Anyone for a beer?

Tony

PS: Any suggestions about what to brew next? My brother is raving about his Hefeweizen, but I don't think Coles sells it. However I might have seen a Cascade (?) wheat beer on the shelf that could possibly benefit from a honey infusion. Mmmmm....


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## Daawl (11/4/08)

TonyG

Sounds great looks like you are on a winner.

I have a toucan homebrand lager going at the moement happily bubbling away.

but

I have a sneaking suspicsion that I have picked up an infection, :angry: seems stronger than normal and almost a touch of sourness, although every other aspect seems allright.

My first tocan though So I am just going to let it take its course and see what happens. <_<


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## white.grant (14/4/08)

I set up my brew fridge on the weekend with my new fridgemateII and tonight in the spirit of supermarket challenge I will be starting a Coopers Pale Ale with brew enhancer 2.

As part of my learning curve I was planning to rack this one to a secondary for conditioning for a week or two after primary fermentation has finished - and then bulk prime for bottling.

I've never bulk primed (or racked) before so, can I drop the sucrose mix straight into the secondary and stir? or should I rack into a "bottling bucket" on top of the sucrose mix? 

Grant


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## tgilbert (14/4/08)

Grantw said:


> I set up my brew fridge on the weekend with my new fridgemateII and tonight in the spirit of supermarket challenge I will be starting a Coopers Pale Ale with brew enhancer 2.
> 
> As part of my learning curve I was planning to rack this one to a secondary for conditioning for a week or two after primary fermentation has finished - and then bulk prime for bottling.
> 
> ...



Hi Grant, I don't think you should drop the sucrose directly into the secondary. Others may disagree, but usually my secondary has a whack of sediment in the bottom that it's better not to mix up into your final brew for bottling. I like clear beers, though, and I know others don't care about that.

My next beer will be a Coopers Pale Ale, but I am using Brew Enhancer 1 because the supermarket is out of 2 - has been for a while which is annoying as I prefer to use 2.

Good luck. Conditioning is an important step in my brewing process now.

Tony


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## Daawl (14/4/08)

Grantw said:


> &lt;br /&gt;I set up my brew fridge on the weekend with my new fridgemateII and tonight in the spirit of supermarket challenge I will be starting a Coopers Pale Ale with brew enhancer 2.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As part of my learning curve I was planning to rack this one to a secondary for conditioning for a week or two after primary fermentation has finished - and then bulk prime for bottling.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I've never bulk primed (or racked) before so, can I drop the sucrose mix straight into the secondary and stir? or should I rack into a &amp;quot;bottling bucket&amp;quot; on top of the sucrose mix? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Grant&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;


&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /><br />G'day Grantw<br /><br />TonyG is correct. To bulk prime with the best results it is best to rack to your &quot;bottling bucket&quot; with the sucrose/dextrose/DME already disolved in 500ml of hot water.<br /><br />Some info states that you can add it to secondary by stiring gently but this only negates what you were trying to achieve by racking to secondar anyay.<br /><br />Lots of info on bulk priming &amp; racking so the best of luck.<br /><br />Cheers Daawl


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## samhighley (14/4/08)

I always rack the beer onto the dextrose in another fermenter.

It's a minor pain, but the bottling fermenter is easy to clean afterwards.

Sam


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## MCT (14/4/08)

Daawl said:


> &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br /><br />G'day Grantw<br /><br />><br />Some info states that you can add it to secondary by stiring gently but this only negates what you were trying to achieve by racking to secondar anyay.<br /><br />Lots of info on bulk priming &amp; racking so the best of luck.<br /><br />Cheers Daawl




I've never racked to seconday, is there a big yeast build up on the bottom that would ruin clarity if stirred? What would be wrong with mixing up the priming sugar in 500ml, boil it and let it cool a bit then adding it to 2ndry..then bottle?


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## white.grant (14/4/08)

Thanks Guys,

I thought that'd be the go. I'll nip down to bunnings tomorrow and get another bucket.

Brew is down and tucked away. Cool evening here in the gong. Fridge is set at 19, fermenter showing 17, ambient in the garage = 14.

Grant


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## white.grant (14/4/08)

TonyG said:


> Hi Grant, I don't think you should drop the sucrose directly into the secondary. Others may disagree, but usually my secondary has a whack of sediment in the bottom that it's better not to mix up into your final brew for bottling. I like clear beers, though, and I know others don't care about that.
> 
> My next beer will be a Coopers Pale Ale, but I am using Brew Enhancer 1 because the supermarket is out of 2 - has been for a while which is annoying as I prefer to use 2.
> 
> ...



Thanks Tony,

I've never used these enhancer products before so am interested to see how they taste. Years ago a kilo of sugar seemed to do the trick - my how things have changed.

grant


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## soupbones (2/5/08)

I have been brewing for a number of years now, and done many of the Coopers kits, as well as other kits and a few extracts ( not game enough to go to AG as yet).

Currently drinking one of the Coopers Euro Lagers, which I got from Big W, and used Brew Enchancer 2 as well ( So your basic supermarket brew ). Probably one of the best beers I have made. I brewed it for 2 weeks. Gave it a dietic restfor a week before racking for another week, then cold conditioning in the secondary for another 2 weeks, before bottling. Left it for two weeks in the bottle before drinking. One of the fastest dissapearing brews I have done, as people come over and seem to want to have more then their normal share of this one. 
Think next time I do this one I'll chuck in a tea bag of Hallerteu in the secondary to dry hop it for some aroma.

Still. In my opinion, the best kit beer Coopers have ever done. For a cheap and nasty beer, it comes out rather good. Will get better when aged to in the bottles. Even the instructions state that.


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## vb4me (3/5/08)

What a great discussion. I have brewed for a lot of years and just started again this year after a couple of years break. I have always brewed from cans and not tried with mashes and such as I find there is a huge range of favours and brands to try still. Also when on a good tasting beer or three I tend to stick with them. I have found the range in supermarkets has improved over the last few years from just the coopers basic range and homebrand. I am now brewing a coopers pale ale and tooheys lager. The pale ale when brewed to their instructions is beautiful, just slightly off the bottled version. 
Biggest downfall to the supermarket though is them running out of stock. Went to coles this morning for a box of brew enhancer No2 but none left, so I bought a 500g box of light dried malt and a 2kg bag of white sugar (no 1 kg bags left  ). The misses is trying to convince me to use the whole 2kg + the malt. Would I have to use another satchet of yeast for this to brew out properly? Or should I buy a couple of stubbies of pale ale and culture the yeast from that??


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## tgilbert (4/5/08)

soupbones said:


> Currently drinking one of the Coopers Euro Lagers, which I got from Big W, and used Brew Enchancer 2 as well ( So your basic supermarket brew ). Probably one of the best beers I have made. I brewed it for 2 weeks. Gave it a dietic restfor a week before racking for another week, then cold conditioning in the secondary for another 2 weeks, before bottling. Left it for two weeks in the bottle before drinking. One of the fastest dissapearing brews I have done, as people come over and seem to want to have more then their normal share of this one.
> Think next time I do this one I'll chuck in a tea bag of Hallerteu in the secondary to dry hop it for some aroma.
> 
> Still. In my opinion, the best kit beer Coopers have ever done. For a cheap and nasty beer, it comes out rather good. Will get better when aged to in the bottles. Even the instructions state that.



Hi and welcome the to discussion. What's a 'dietic rest'? And what is the difference (in a cold lager brew) between racking and cold conditioning? I brewed mine for three weeks in the fridge, then decanted it to plastic cubes to condition for another three weeks. I've now bottled it and I am wondering if it's OK to carbonate on the shelf or should it go back into the fridge? I am hoping not to drink this one until our family camping trip in November. Should be real good by then.

By the way, why do you call supermarket kits 'cheap and nasty beer'? Some of what they sell in Coles (e.g. Cascade kits) is also on the shelf in my local HBS (for 25% more) and the results from most Coles cans so far have been at least as good as I get from Morgans and other HBS cans. If you really want cheap and nasty, my local Coles had a few cans of Bi-Lo Lager last week and I grabbed one for $6.50 to see what it tastes like. Will let you know.

Happy brewing, Tony


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## mauriceatron (6/5/08)

I loved reading this discussion! It actually goes to show just how good Woolies and Coles are with support of home brew. It's not just the Coopers Original Series and the house brands, it's also Toohey's, Cascade and Coopers Internation Series as well; and the different sugars available.

When I read this yesterday, I actually got inspired to see just how cheap a brew can be and still taste okay. While I don't like my chances of massive success, this is what I've done:

1. Homebrand Draught - $7.75
2. Cooper's Brewing Sugar 1kg - $5.18
3. Cooper's Carbonation Drops - $2.89 (probably use 1/2 the bag so $1.45)
4. 100 Home brand Crown Seals - $1.79 (need around 25 so $0.45 ea)

Mixed to 21 Litres and brewing at around 21 deg C for 11~14 days. Looking for a FG of around 1008 or less.

So, at the end of it for $15.83, I want to know what I can get. I know I won't have anything flash but will it taste better than budget brand name beer like Toohey's Draught or VB? I think it will. If I can produce a brew better than a commercial beer then Supermarket brewing has a chance!  

I could have used Dextrose for the sugar but I know that would definitely be stretching the friendship. Would have been cheaper but would be lacking essential body and head retention, not worth it for saving $2.

It will take a while as I won't go high in temp and it will need conditioning for 3 weeks or more. So in 5 weeks or more, I would have an answer. Thread will probably have died off by then but I reckon my commercial beer drinking mates will think it's better than their piss. Anyway, will only tie up one of my 3 fermenters for the next 2 weeks while I see what happens.

Now that's supermarket challenge!! It's the cheapest brew I have ever made (yes, I'm sure the resulting taste will reflect that but I'm still going to have fun doing it)

Started tonight...

Cheers!
Mauriceatron


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## tgilbert (6/5/08)

mauriceatron said:


> It will take a while as I won't go high in temp and it will need conditioning for 3 weeks or more. So in 5 weeks or more, I would have an answer. Thread will probably have died off by then but I reckon my commercial beer drinking mates will think it's better than their piss. Anyway, will only tie up one of my 3 fermenters for the next 2 weeks while I see what happens.



Don't underestimate this thread, Maurice. It's been running at least warm for several months now and new people coming along and joining in regularly. I have my Bi-Lo Lager in the fridge fermenting at 20 degrees now, with 1kg of Brew Enhancer No 1 and the basic yeast - a total of $13.00 worth of ingredients. I don't expect miracles but I do think it will be quite drinkable. Haven't made a brew I've not enjoyed in almost a year now.

And don't forget that Coles also sell the Cascade tins, which are commercial-grade worts by any measure.

To be honest though, the brew that's impressed me most from the challenge so far is Cooper's Cerveza. It's quick, easy and very drinkable within weeks. A great little no-fuss beer. But I am looking forward to the Euro Lager in about three months from now (it's bottled).

Happy brewing. Tony


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## soupbones (7/5/08)

TonyG said:


> Hi and welcome the to discussion. What's a 'dietic rest'? And what is the difference (in a cold lager brew) between racking and cold conditioning? I brewed mine for three weeks in the fridge, then decanted it to plastic cubes to condition for another three weeks. I've now bottled it and I am wondering if it's OK to carbonate on the shelf or should it go back into the fridge? I am hoping not to drink this one until our family camping trip in November. Should be real good by then.
> 
> By the way, why do you call supermarket kits 'cheap and nasty beer'? Some of what they sell in Coles (e.g. Cascade kits) is also on the shelf in my local HBS (for 25% more) and the results from most Coles cans so far have been at least as good as I get from Morgans and other HBS cans. If you really want cheap and nasty, my local Coles had a few cans of Bi-Lo Lager last week and I grabbed one for $6.50 to see what it tastes like. Will let you know.
> 
> Happy brewing, Tony



A diacetyl rest ( bad spelling last time, sorry ) is done toward the end of the fermentation, to let the yeast absorb the diacetly, which can add some off buttery like flavours to your beer. Racking is a brew term meaning that you drain your wort into a second fermenter, usually for the purose of a secondary fermentation, and to assist in the clearing of the wort of yeast in suspension. Cold conditioning is a process where you let the finished brew coold down to a temp which makes any active yeast dormant and it drops out of suspension. It also helps stabilise the beer, specially lagers and eliminate chill haze.


I call them cheap and nasty because when you compare the cost and the quality of the finished product of a kit beer form the supermarket compared to a well made extract beer or even an all grain brew (by the way I don't brew all grain) then these ways of brewing make the supermarket kits look cheap and nasty. Thats not to say you can't get a good drinkable beer from a supermarket kit beer. Some kits in my opinion make a pretty average beer sometimes. Some make a great beer as well, and turn out suprisingly good. Of course most of these kit beers cost around the $20 mark (including sugars) to make a finished product. Extracts and all grain can cost more, and if you count the equipment as well it can cost considerably more. But of course you get a much better result.


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## mauriceatron (7/5/08)

TonyG said:


> Don't underestimate this thread, Maurice. It's been running at least warm for several months now and new people coming along and joining in regularly. I have my Bi-Lo Lager in the fridge fermenting at 20 degrees now, with 1kg of Brew Enhancer No 1 and the basic yeast - a total of $13.00 worth of ingredients. I don't expect miracles but I do think it will be quite drinkable. Haven't made a brew I've not enjoyed in almost a year now.



Yeah Tony, I've never tried to produce the cheapest drinkable beer but I remember my original Coopers Lager which came with the brew kit was quite all right. I knew Coles & Woolies had their house brand beer kits but didn't know Bi-Lo did. Woolies however is the best option for my supermarket shopping.

Anyway, it's a great thread!

Cheers
Mauriceatron


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## QldKev (7/5/08)

I always though a diacetyl rest was only needed when you used a lager yeast? 

QldKev


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## soupbones (7/5/08)

Far as I know, it can be used for any yeast. But considering most people don't bother racking ales anyway, there is probably no point.


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## l7edwards (8/5/08)

Just had my first Coopers European lager - its been bottled for at 2 weeks and now lagering

Recipe was - Euro lager kit, BE2, 12g Saaz, 15g B-Saaz (cold infused at 2 1/2 weeks), kit yeast fermented at around 14* to 17*

It tastes great, by far one of the best supermarket kits i've done in terms of being so drinkable very early. Will definitly do this one again with more malt and different hop combos - maybe some hersbrucker or nelson sauvin

All in all it appears a great base kit


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## peterkinden (8/5/08)

Morning,

I picked up 2 of the Cascade kits for $4ea on clearance at my local safeway in Newmarket. I also picked up 2 of their home brand ones for shits and giggles for $2ea. I figure the home brand one will end up costing under the $10 mark all up. 

None of them were even close to their use by date. Had a year left.

Apparently they were undergoing new planogram for the shelves. 

I went to a few other stores to pick up some more but with no luck. Other than one store had packs of 100 caps on for 99 cents. picked up 10 bags.

Bargain!  

Pete


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## pokolbinguy (8/5/08)

Has anyone had any luck with the:

"Cascade Golden Harvest Lager"

I picked up the can of goo the other day as it was on special, thought I might be able to turn it into something decent.

Cheers, Pok


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## peterkinden (8/5/08)

Pok - 

That's the one i got on special.

Haven't put it on yet.

Still waiting for a free fermenter.

Pete


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## pokolbinguy (8/5/08)

peteski9 said:


> Pok -
> 
> That's the one i got on special.
> 
> ...



Any planned additions?


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## petesbrew (8/5/08)

It's always worth checking out the sales shelves at the end of the aisles too. I picked up 3 cans of stout last year for $4.99 each.
Also have a relative working in a supermarket who scored me 5 cans of bilo draught for $1.50 each.

I'm not having too much luck with the bilo's, though.


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## peterkinden (8/5/08)

pokolbinguy said:


> Any planned additions?




Not too sure yet - Does anyone know what yeast comes with the kit? do i assume that being a supermarket kit it's going to have ale yeast?

Pete


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## AlwayzLoozeCount (8/5/08)

peteski9 said:


> Not too sure yet - Does anyone know what yeast comes with the kit? do i assume that being a supermarket kit it's going to have ale yeast?
> 
> Pete



I have done this kit a few times and it always turns out good. I think it comes with a bohemian lager yeast that takes a long time to get going. I know lots of people on this site would recomend chucking the yeast and getting a better quality one but personaly I have never had any problem with the supplied yeast apart from it taking a long time to ferment.
last time I made this kit up I used 500g light dry malt 500g dextrose and steeped a 12g teabag of cascade hops for about 10 mins in a mug of boiling water and chucked it in the fermentor, turned out very nice.


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## RobboMC (8/5/08)

TonyG said:


> I am so pleased to hear other home brewers rave about how much better their own beer is than the commercial equivalents. I was starting to think that I was "drinking my own piss", so to speak. I have felt this way since about the third brew I made. Every now and then I don't plan properly and I have to buy commercial beer (and when we go out for dinner), but I really don't enjoy it the way I used to. Prefer my home brew any time.
> 
> And Stagga, I hope you've never made a mistake
> 
> Tony



Hi Tony,

Just before Xmas I went to on overnight party with some friends, one of which is a keen brewer, and an even keener drinker.
We rinsed our throats with Coopers Sparkling Ale ( commercial variety ) between different bottles of our respective home brews,
and this underlined for me that the difference IS real. By comparison, the commercial beer tasted unhopped, unmalted and watery. 

Even only half decent home brew using kits and bits is better than mid-range commercial offerings. As long as you get past the 'dump and stir' stage and use malts instead of sugar, and even boil in some extra hops, you can make magnificent beer at home with a small investment of time.

Just to add: a HBS told me the supermarket level kits can be different from month to month, batch to batch and even can to can. They are not consistent, compared to the higher level more expensive kits sold by HBS. Of course he is in no way objective so I don't know if this is true or sales talk. I was buying an expensive kit anyway so he wasn't really upselling me.


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## tgilbert (8/5/08)

pokolbinguy said:


> Has anyone had any luck with the:
> 
> "Cascade Golden Harvest Lager"
> 
> ...



I'm half way through a keg of it at the moment. It started out very nice, but it's getting 'sharper' in taste as it goes along. I just used the standard yeast and a Brew Enhancer No 2. I'd probably use a hops bag next time.

Tony


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## boingk (8/5/08)

Everyone musta picked this one up! I thought the $5+ saving was pretty good and had been meaning to try a few more from the Cascade range after doing several of their Porter offering which came out quite well. I'll probably put it together with 500g LDME, 250g Dex and 250g Maltodextrin as well as some Sazz. Either that, or go 1.5kg liquid amber malt and some Hallertau thats been lying around.

Cheers - boingk


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## rh1an5 (8/5/08)

i grabbed a can of "Cascade Golden Harvest Lager" made the wort, let it sit overnight to cool and pitched the yeast after re hydrating it last night, still waiting for any sign of fermentaion or air lock activity.


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## boingk (9/5/08)

Final recipe...aiming for a darker and heavier ale, but with a clean finish and some rich roasty undertones as well as the Saaz shining through. 

Cascade Golden Harvest tin, 
1.5kg amber liquid malt, 
150g chocolate grain, 
12g Saaz teabag, 
US-05 yeast.

Putting it down tonight - will let you know how it goes in a month or two!


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## tgilbert (9/5/08)

rh1an5 said:


> i grabbed a can of "Cascade Golden Harvest Lager" made the wort, let it sit overnight to cool and pitched the yeast after re hydrating it last night, still waiting for any sign of fermentaion or air lock activity.



Are you getting droplets under the lid of the fermenter? If so, it's probably OK. I had a brew that wouldn't fart at all and I rang Coopers for help. They told me about the droplet test and that brew was fine. Seems to happen more with lagers than ales.

Tony


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## rh1an5 (10/5/08)

hey tony,
yes i have droplets, in fact i now have visible activity and airlock noise. It is posible it got a bit cold the night i pitched the yeast. all good now thought (batch4). the smame slow start happaend on my coopers gingerbeer(batch 3) as well from memory

cant say as much for my last batch(batch 2), need to crack one open and make sure they are ok  they all look a lil strange looking inside

note: when making your 2nd ever batch of beer it may be advisable to not try every new technique you have heard/read about (using hops, using can of malt extract, warming wort on stove top, racking and god knows what else i did)


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## vb4me (10/5/08)

You're right rh1an5. Take things one step at a time, once you've mastered a few brews then try some different techniques and if they work for you then your on your way. I have brewed for a number of years and havent really found the need to "play" with things too much as in custom recipes and such. I have been able to find kits that I enjoy and tend to stick with them but try something new every so often just to see what else is drinkable.


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## pokolbinguy (14/5/08)

pokolbinguy said:


> Has anyone had any luck with the:
> 
> "Cascade Golden Harvest Lager"
> 
> ...



So does anyone have any hands down good recipes for this can of goo? Was thinking I might be able to turn it into something good for the upcoming case swap but do a double batch so i can keep a keg.

Pok


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## beeroclock (14/5/08)

i have done a can of goo with one kilo of honey before, best beer i did iam sure it gav the beer more aklohol


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## Gavo (28/7/08)

Hi all, I am a new member to the site and found this thread, coldn't help but to dig it back up as I am interested to find out how some of the earlier "supermarket kits" in this thread have turned out. I think that my feeble K&K attempts of late have made it very difficult for me to swallow the commercial megaswills.

I have started to HB again just recently after acouple of years break with a newfound interest. I still have access to mainly my local IGA and Foodworks stores, nearest large supermarket is an hour and a half away.

I am presently fermenting a Coopers Draft supermarket kit with 500grams of LDME and 600grams of Dextrose starting gravity of 1042 and the yeast under the lid. I scored two of these for $4.99 each, they had just renovated the shop.I am going to do the next one the same but I will be using Safale US-05 yeast purchased form an online HBS and compare the two.

Reading posts on this site have inspired me to try other things rather than just using the kit and a kilo of CSR brewing sugar which by the way is mostly sucrose don't give me the lecture on this as thats all that I could get.

So how about it, lets hear how some of those cheapies turned out, I think I will be trying coopers europian lager next and the original stout how about some ideas of the fermentables to put with these.


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## QIK86 (29/7/08)

beeroclock said:


> i have done a can of goo with one kilo of honey before, best beer i did iam sure it gav the beer more aklohol



What sort of beer did you do this with? Sounds interesting. Was the honey flavour noticable in the finished product? As for the alcohol, it would only be the same as adding 1kg of malt/dex etc, wouldn't it? :huh:


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## mauriceatron (6/8/08)

TonyG said:


> Don't underestimate this thread, Maurice. It's been running at least warm for several months now and new people coming along and joining in regularly. I have my Bi-Lo Lager in the fridge fermenting at 20 degrees now, with 1kg of Brew Enhancer No 1 and the basic yeast - a total of $13.00 worth of ingredients. I don't expect miracles but I do think it will be quite drinkable. Haven't made a brew I've not enjoyed in almost a year now.
> 
> And don't forget that Coles also sell the Cascade tins, which are commercial-grade worts by any measure.
> 
> ...




Hey Tony,

Yeap, the thread is still going and we've only just got around to drinking the HomeBrand Draught that I brewed up. We started it last Saturday night for the Wallabies game (another story) but my VB and Toohey's drinking mates loved it. For me it was a tad on the bland side but tonight they came back for more while the wife was away.

You can easily start thinking about adding hops or DME but that's not what this thread is about in my (not so humble) opinion. It's about a low cost drinkable beer that's super easy to make and forgetting for once about steeping this or that.

A nice challenge and something that I'll remember for the Christmas parties coming up. Some cheaper ingredients and brew kits and I can supply plenty of tasty beer for people to enjoy at a Christmas party. I'll get started in Sept for Christmas and see how everything goes. All should be great.

Thanks for the challenge, a great one!

Cheers
The Mauriceatron


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## stevenk (7/8/08)

on tap at the mo is a coopers bitter.
coopers bitter
BE#2 
300gm DEX 
kit yeast (16-20DEG fermented)

racked to keg dry hoped 12 gm chinook for somthing different and im enjoying it very much.

cheap and drinkable.

cheers.


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