# Plate Vs Immersion Chillerq



## balconybrewer (17/4/10)

hi there, have been no chilling for ages and keen to give chilling a crack and make my own decision on which is best practice.

but which way do i go, plate (i.e a chillout from ross for $130) or make up a copper immerson one??? anyone out there tried both or anyone have a strong opinion one way or the other, love to hear about it.

cheers


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## benchick (17/4/10)

im definately no guru but my mates swear by plate chillers, am just putting an ag setup together at the moment and am goin to run 2 chillers in series with a peri pump for the wort and 2 garden pumps for the cooling, first one will run tap water straight through and then out to the garden, second one will run glycol from a 40l engel, should get it down to 18 degrees no probs hopefully, a just going to have to mess with the glycol temp to get it spot on but it shouldnt be too hard. my mates have used immersion chillers but they have all gone to cold plates so am just following the trend


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## browndog (17/4/10)

Plate chillers are the go BB, I've had an immersion chiller and plate chiller and will vouch for the plate chiller. Sure you get some cold break in the fermenter, but don't let the naysayers put you off, it has no effect on the finished beer. Further, if you look at an immersion chiller before it goes in the kettle and then after it comes out, where does all that oxide on the copper go? into your wort that is where.

cheers

Browndog


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## manticle (17/4/10)

You can clean copper with acid (like vinegar) - same as with a copper manifold. Oxides aren't a big issue.

What are the unbiased pros and cons of each? I'm likely to make an immersion chiller soon so it would be nice to know.


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## felten (18/4/10)

Jamil always bars up when he talks about his whirlpool immersion chiller on brewstrong, http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php. looks interesting.


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## jiesu (18/4/10)

That Whirlpool immersion chiller does look to be the shiznitch!


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## razz (18/4/10)

You can do the same as JZ with a plate chiller, but, plate chillers hate pellets.


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## bcp (18/4/10)

Being a melbournian, I'm interested to know if they both use the same volume of water to achieve the same result? Is one more efficient?

I know you can recycle water, and the variables (water temp, outside temp, speed of water flow, etc) make this a difficult question, but: roughly how much water - maximum - do these kinds of things use (on a hot day)? I saw a post where someone suggested 120-190 litres (30-40 gallons). http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/how-much-w...chiller-121012/

At that rate no chill seems more sensible. Another person said about 40 litres and a bag of ice - that'd be easier to recycle.


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## kevin_smevin (18/4/10)

bcp said:


> Being a melbournian, I'm interested to know if they both use the same volume of water to achieve the same result? Is one more efficient?
> 
> I know you can recycle water, and the variables (water temp, outside temp, speed of water flow, etc) make this a difficult question, but: roughly how much water - maximum - do these kinds of things use (on a hot day)? I saw a post where someone suggested 120-190 litres (30-40 gallons). http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/how-much-w...chiller-121012/
> 
> At that rate no chill seems more sensible. Another person said about 40 litres and a bag of ice - that'd be easier to recycle.




Check this page out. It compares a couple plate chillers with what looks like an immersion chiller. http://www.blichmannengineering.com/thermi...herminator.html

I bought the therminator but haven't used it yet. Should give it a run next weekend


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## browndog (18/4/10)

As far as efficiency goes, IMHO the plate chiller wins hands down. I can chill my 23L wort to the same temp as the water coming out of my tap in less than 10 mins, there is no way you could do that with an immersion chiller. I've never had any blockages with hop pellets either so I would not list that as an issue. Manticle, you say you can clean a copper immersion chiller with acid or vinegar before using it to get the gunk off, I've seen a lot of brewers use immersion chillers over the years and I've never seen anyone clean one once. The only setback with a plate chiller as I see it, and it is not really a setback is it requires a bit more work to keep it clean and sanitary.

cheers

Browndog


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## bcp (18/4/10)

yum yum yum said:


> Check this page out. It compares a couple plate chillers with what looks like an immersion chiller. http://www.blichmannengineering.com/thermi...herminator.html
> 
> I bought the therminator but haven't used it yet. Should give it a run next weekend



I do love elegant solutions! Interested to hear how you go.


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## manticle (18/4/10)

browndog said:


> As far as efficiency goes, IMHO the plate chiller wins hands down. I can chill my 23L wort to the same temp as the water coming out of my tap in less than 10 mins, there is no way you could do that with an immersion chiller. I've never had any blockages with hop pellets either so I would not list that as an issue. Manticle, you say you can clean a copper immersion chiller with acid or vinegar before using it to get the gunk off, I've seen a lot of brewers use immersion chillers over the years and I've never seen anyone clean one once. The only setback with a plate chiller as I see it, and it is not really a setback is it requires a bit more work to keep it clean and sanitary.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



I know I usually clean my manifold before mashing. I'm surprised people don't like their immersions to be nice and shiny too.

10 minutes is pretty damn good - that's probably how long it takes me to fill my NC cube


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## sav (18/4/10)

I can say my IC has served me well its 18metres of 1/2 inch but It was taking to long in summer I have now have the Mk3 mashmaster plate and I love it.


BB if you want to use my IC to see if you like it you can borrow it,My parenst are coming up from wauchope next week so they can take it home with them if you like.


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## balconybrewer (18/4/10)

sav, would love to try your IC, what is the diameter of it though???? i only have a 250mm opening at the top of my keggle.

also to browndog and the rest who reccomend the plate chillers, do you guys gravity feed or use a pump???


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## razz (18/4/10)

balconybrewer said:


> sav, would love to try your IC, what is the diameter of it though???? i only have a 250mm opening at the top of my keggle.
> 
> also to browndog and the rest who reccomend the plate chillers, do you guys gravity feed or use a pump???


Pump


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## browndog (18/4/10)

balconybrewer said:


> sav, would love to try your IC, what is the diameter of it though???? i only have a 250mm opening at the top of my keggle.
> 
> also to browndog and the rest who reccomend the plate chillers, do you guys gravity feed or use a pump???



Gravity feed here BB.


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## Eater (18/4/10)

Have always used a plate chiller so i cannot speak for any other method. Its effective at reducing the temperature significantly, however in my environment this is an esky with water, supplemented with three bags of ice.
As for cleaning, i certainly have cleaned it  
It gets regular hot water flushes and plenty of napisan (then more flushing) and every 4th brew it gets boiled for an hour
All of these methods achieved with gravity feed, pond pump for the chiller plate water and hose direct to back yard for the Paw Paw for all cleaning duties. Water isnt as restricted is usage but is still too expensive to use as primary cooling method straight from the tap.


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## balconybrewer (18/4/10)

one more question, how do you gauge/ control the temperature you are getting from the pate chiller. obiously easy with an immersion, just have a termo in the kettle, but how do you gauge / control it with a plate chiller.

cheers


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## Wolfy (18/4/10)

balconybrewer said:


> one more question, how do you gauge/ control the temperature you are getting from the pate chiller. obiously easy with an immersion, just have a termo in the kettle, but how do you gauge / control it with a plate chiller.


By controlling the flow rate of hot wort compared to the cooling fluid (water), you can easily adjust one and/or the other to get the optimum cooling compared to water used.
You could use a thermometer in-line with the output from your chiller (even one of those stick-on ones), but since I let mine cascade into the fermenter for aeration, I just collect a small sample in a shot glass and measure the temp.
Another good way is to simply feel the temperature of the waste-water from the chiller, if its hot-to-touch then you need higher water-flow but if it's medium-warm then you probably have a good flow rate and the chiller is working at optimal efficiency.


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## balconybrewer (18/4/10)

Wolfy said:


> By controlling the flow rate of hot wort compared to the cooling fluid (water), you can easily adjust one and/or the other to get the optimum cooling compared to water used.
> You could use a thermometer in-line with the output from your chiller (even one of those stick-on ones), but since I let mine cascade into the fermenter for aeration, I just collect a small sample in a shot glass and measure the temp.
> Another good way is to simply feel the temperature of the waste-water from the chiller, if its hot-to-touch then you need higher water-flow but if it's medium-warm then you probably have a good flow rate and the chiller is working at optimal efficiency.



sounds a bit hit and miss, anyone else have a more accurate method of measureing wort temp, especially if using a pre chiller, once the ice melts you will chill at a different rate???


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## razz (18/4/10)

BB, obviously the most accurate way is to have a thermometer in line coming from the plate chiller. The reality is that once you clock up some experience using a plate chiller and you know your cooling capacity, that is tap water or tank water including the time of year, then you will know with in a few degrees how cool your wort will finish.


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## browndog (18/4/10)

When I first started using my plate chiller, I would just let the wort run in a fast dribble thinking I needed to do that to get the temp down to the same as the cooling water going in, now I just about run it flat out for the same result.

cheers

Browndog


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## sav (18/4/10)

For me I use my wort return from my herms, connect it to my chiller and pump through 100deg for 10min to sterilize then whack in my fermenter and it reads from the probe from my temp mate.


My Ic should fit its around 250mm it fits in my 18 gallon and the lid is smaller than my tun and its 300mm lid.


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## sanmerah (18/4/10)

Since No Chill I opted for the Plate Chiller option, mainly space and storage constraints. I simply connect the garden tap to the chiller use the output to fill an esky, that hot water is great for use as part of the cleanup on the brewday...


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## Screwtop (19/4/10)

As most of it has been said, I'll keep the reasoning short.

Built a huge (18M) IC in an attempt to improve efficiency. Not happy with the time it took so bought a 30 plate PC. Still using it and prefer it, does that tell you something?

Prep: Flush the PC with hot caustic or PBW solution then water to rinse. 

Use: Recirc wort via the PC for the last 15 min of the boil to sanitise, after flame out, recirc via the PC to whirlpool in the kettle (wort return at the bottom of the kettle angled for whirlpool) at full bore, dropping wort temp in the kettle. Then throttle back wort flow to lower wort temp to the max possible depending on water temp, I have used the IC in an icewater bath to pre-chill the cooling water during warmer months. Tank water is used for the PC and returns to the tank. I use a hop sock so there is little hop trub, have used flowers directly in the wort but whirlpooling seems to take care of that. Don't even have a pickup in the kettle, it has a flat bottom and the outlet is in the side at the very bottom, trub stays in the centre. Peice a piss this brewing game eh!

Screwy


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## jpr (20/4/10)

just put a plate chiller on ebay, works great with a fishtank pump and ice water u will get to pitching temps in one pass, just surplus to my needs cheers http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=220592835109


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## Renzo (10/5/10)

Use a blichman inline thrumometer to test for temp into fermenter. Sanitize 5 mins before flamout by wrapping silicon hose in alufoil and pumping steam in through the wort in on plate chiller works well. When steam comes out of end of silicon its done. I use one of those steam dream steamers my girlfriend had but doesn't use. Plate chiller gets caustic wash straight after and then acid wash and then it's ready for next brew.


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## yardy (8/6/10)

yum yum yum said:


> *I bought the therminator but haven't used it yet. Should give it a run next weekend*



what's your opinion on the therminator yyy ?



browndog said:


> *As far as efficiency goes, IMHO the plate chiller wins hands down. I can chill my 23L wort to the same temp as the water coming out of my tap in less than 10 mins
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog*



what PC do you have bd ?

cheers

Dave


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## browndog (8/6/10)

yardy said:


> what's your opinion on the therminator yyy ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A mashmaster mk III mate, works a treat.


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## kevin_smevin (8/6/10)

the therminator is great! i pump my wort through using my march pump at top speed and it chills to 20. If you slow down the wort flow rate it goes even lower. So it takes me about 4 minutes to bring my boiling wort to 20 degrees (about 27L). Pretty happy with that


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## dent (8/6/10)

I wasn't happy with the tap water solution so I sealed up an 140L chest freezer fitted with a thermostat set to 2 degrees and a pond pump in the bottom. This was filled with water. Then I used two chillout counterflow chillers in series, one gets fed with the tapwater, the other gets the freezer water. This gets near boiling wort down to 7-8 degrees as fast as the march pump can push it, so it is acceptable. It also uses less water overall than tapwater alone.


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## yardy (8/6/10)

yum yum yum said:


> the therminator is great! i pump my wort through using my march pump at top speed and it chills to 20. If you slow down the wort flow rate it goes even lower. So it takes me about 4 minutes to bring my boiling wort to 20 degrees (about 27L). Pretty happy with that



that's pretty impressive, did you get yours through ibrew ?

wonder how the MM Mk lll compares performance wise ?




dent said:


> I wasn't happy with the tap water solution so I sealed up an 140L chest freezer fitted with a thermostat set to 2 degrees and a pond pump in the bottom. This was filled with water. Then I used two chillout counterflow chillers in series, one gets fed with the tapwater, the other gets the freezer water. This gets near boiling wort down to 7-8 degrees as fast as the march pump can push it, so it is acceptable. It also uses less water overall than tapwater alone.




got any pics ?

cheers

Dave


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## dent (8/6/10)

yardy said:


> got any pics ?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Dave



Yeah - a bunch of tubes







The blue hoses are water, the silicon are wort. The ball valves are in an H configuration, as the pump also does duty in the HERMS. The kettle is connected to the yellow valve. Hot wort is run through the whole system for the last 20 minutes of boil for santitation. The insulated tube is the cold water input - the insulation is useless, it is just left over from a different application.







Not too much to see here, the blue hose is the cold water output from the pump, the black is pump supply, the white is thermo probe. Ice forms on the chest freezer evaporator coils which helpfully melts off when I refill the freezer after a brew.


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