# My First Doppelbock



## Ross (6/4/07)

Was just about to make my first Bock, when the recipe for the "big brew day" took my fancy, so decided to go for a doppelbock instead. This is totally new territory for me, so any advice on recipe/mashing regime welcomed.

Hailbrau Dopplebock 
Doppelbock 
Type: All Grain
Date: 9/04/2007 
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Boil Size: 38.41 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 120 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 70.3 % 
2.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 23.4 % 
0.50 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (25.6 EBC) Grain 5.9 % 
0.03 kg Carafa III (Weyermann) (1034.3 EBC) Grain 0.4 % 
45.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.50%] (90 min) Hops 17.5 IBU 
30.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.50%] (40 min) Hops 9.6 IBU 
2 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager 
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.079 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.7 % 
Bitterness: 27.1 IBU 
Est Color: 26.2 EBC 

Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 8.54 kg 
Mash In 62.0 C 60 min 
Raise temp to 70.0 C 30 min 
Mash out 78c

cheers Ross


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## blackbock (6/4/07)

Ross, you're more of a brewer than I am, but I can't see the need for Carahell in this recipe. That much Munich would be malty enough, and there definitely would be no need for additional colour either.

One thing I look out for with Doppelbocks is sometimes there can be minimal head formation, probably due to higher alcohol level. Don't know if you have experienced that problem, but I have.

good brewing!


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## Jye (6/4/07)

blackbock said:


> Ross, you're more of a brewer than I am, but I can't see the need for Carahell in this recipe...



Same here, it always puzzles me when I see carahell/pils in big beers, Im under the impression there should be enough residual sugars that it isnt needed.

Check out the doppelbock SOTW on the green board.


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## Steve Lacey (6/4/07)

Ross, I am sure that will work and give you a beer that fits the Dopplebock profile. It will, in fact, probably be a great beer. All I can say that I have had excellent results using just Munich, a pale malt (5:2 like you) and a dark crystal (300-400 g)-- I used caraAroma last time (thanks to David Bigfridge!). 

Then, and I think this is the main secret, a double decoction and a long boil. Maybe the Carafa will make up for the decoction to some extent. But I'd still recommend that you at least go for one big, longish decoction for a mash-out boost, and definitley make sure you employ at least a 2-hour boil. 

By the way, since when did "single infusion" involve mashing in at 62 for 60 min, raising to 70 for 30 min and then 78 for mashout?  Actually, if you don't want to go into decoctions, you might be better with just a straight 66-68 single infusion, but it's really hard to say...I am a stickler for decoctions for authentic German lagers.


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## Ross (6/4/07)

Steve Lacey said:


> By the way, since when did "single infusion" involve mashing in at 62 for 60 min, raising to 70 for 30 min and then 78 for mashout?  Actually, if you don't want to go into decoctions, you might be better with just a straight 66-68 single infusion, but it's really hard to say...I am a stickler for decoctions for authentic German lagers.



"single infusion" lazy in changing the Beersmith settings  
I'm thinking along the liines of a straight infusion at 66c, but the recipe had step infusions at 40c, 62c, 70c & mash out at 78c. What is the real benefit of the 40c rest?

Cheers Ross


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## Ross (6/4/07)

Jye said:


> Same here, it always puzzles me when I see carahell/pils in big beers, Im under the impression there should be enough residual sugars that it isnt needed.
> 
> Check out the doppelbock SOTW on the green board.



The greenboard recipes seem to concur with using the crystal...

cheers Ross


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## ozpowell (6/4/07)

Hey Ross,

I noticed some Mittelfrueh in your recipe and happened to be looking for that hop on craftbrewer yesterday. Do you have any available which aren't listed on your web site, or is this a private stash?  If they're available, are they German?

Also, are you thinking of getting any Hallertau German Traditional? I've read a lot of good things about this noble hop and am dying to give it a whirl...

Cheers,
Michael.


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## Tony (6/4/07)

I say use munich 1 with 15% munich 11 and decoction mash it.

mash in at 52 deg and imediatly pull a thick decoction (mostly grain with just enough liquid to make it stirable)

Gently raise its temp to 66 to 68 deg for 20 min and then gently bring it to the boil and simmer it for 20 min. Be careful not to scorch it cause it will if you leave it. Keep stiring.

Pour it back in the main mash to get 66 deg. Because you are decoction mashing you wont need a high mash temp.

let it sit for 45 min and then pill a thin decoction (liquid only) and bring it up to the boil and when its boiling, tip it back in for a temp of around 76 deg.

drain to kettle and sparge as normal.

Its easy.

All i use is a 2 ring gas burner on the floor with a pot big enough to hold what your boiling.

I know promash works out all your amounts ect for you...... not sure of beersmith.

this is what i have planned when i get around to brewing one....... will probably do one this winter

cheers

Doppelbock

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.10
Anticipated OG: 1.080 Plato: 19.37
Anticipated EBC: 27.7
Anticipated IBU: 26.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
49.4 4.00 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 18
24.7 2.00 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 1.038 7
12.3 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich II Germany 1.038 24
12.3 1.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
1.2 0.10 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 4.20 20.0 60 min.
20.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 4.20 6.1 30 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP833 German Bock


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## Ross (6/4/07)

ozpowell said:


> Hey Ross,
> 
> I noticed some Mittelfrueh in your recipe and happened to be looking for that hop on craftbrewer yesterday. Do you have any available which aren't listed on your web site, or is this a private stash?  If they're available, are they German?
> 
> ...



Straight Hallertau is Hallertau Mittlefrueh - It's German & available in plugs or pellets. 

cheers Ross


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## Ross (6/4/07)

Tony said:


> I say use munich 1 with 15% munich 11 and decoction mash it.




Nah...too lazy  Maybe one day  

cheers Ross


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## Steve Lacey (6/4/07)

After looking at the Brewboard topic I think that the two-step mash may be worthwhile to ensure you get a reasonably attenuative extract. I find the 62/70 for one hour/30 min a bit extreme, but maybe it is alright. I've never done one like that though. I'd probably go for 63 for 30 minutes and 68 or 69 until conversion. But like I said, I'm really in Tony's camp on the mash.

Also jumping into Tony's camp on yeast. The Saf will probably do the job quite well, but I'd like to go the extra mile if I had the choice. The last Dopplebock I did is just coming into condition for drinking now and is very tasty. I used the WLP Budvar yeast, mainly because it is all I had ready access to, but I was more than happy to use it given its ability to accentuate malt.


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## Tony (6/4/07)

Ross said:


> Nah...too lazy  Maybe one day
> 
> cheers Ross




Ya sook  

Its probably not so important as far as what mash schedule you use...... but i would recomend using the WLP833.

Its a fantastic yeast..... my fav yeast to date actually.

It will attenuate down really well but leaves a fantastic maltiness in the beer. I use it in my Classic American Pilsner..... it rocks :super: 

cheers


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## Ross (6/4/07)

Tony said:


> Its probably not so important as far as what mash schedule you use...... but i would recomend using the WLP833.



So you tried the S-189 in a bock Tony?? I'm guessing not  
As I sell the product, it makes sense to try it out in different brews - In a CAP it's outstanding, give it a try sometime  

cheers Ross


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## Kai (6/4/07)

Ross said:


> The greenboard recipes seem to concur with using the crystal...
> 
> cheers Ross




I say bugger the green board and dump the crystal. I too fail to see the advantage in a beer the size of a doppelbock. My preference would lean to a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Other than that, I like the big brew day grist. What really boggles the mind though is a sub 30 IBU ross beer with only two additions and one hop variety


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## Tony (6/4/07)

Ross said:


> Was just about to make my first Bock, when the recipe for the "big brew day" took my fancy, so decided to go for a doppelbock instead. This is totally new territory for me, so any advice on recipe/mashing regime welcomed.



If ya dont want advice mate....... dont ask for it. :blink: 

I was only trying to say what has worked very well for me in malty german lagers.

I can see your point though........ let us know how it goes.

I will have to try it one day...... i have gone back to dried yeasts latly, but i still love the WLP833.

cheers


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## Ross (6/4/07)

Kai said:


> I say bugger the green board and dump the crystal. I too fail to see the advantage in a beer the size of a doppelbock. My preference would lean to a smaller amount of a darker crystal. Other than that, I like the big brew day grist. What really boggles the mind though is a sub 30 IBU ross beer with only two additions and one hop variety



What do you reckon Kai, switch to 300gm or caraaroma?

Cheers Ross


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (6/4/07)

Ross, would like to hear how that yeast goes in your Dopplebock. Are you trying the dried yeast due to ease of use?
Any chance you could split the batch and use Wyeast 2206 or Whitelabs 833 alongside the 189?

I think your grist looks fair. Good luck.

C&B
TDA


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## Ross (6/4/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Ross, would like to hear how that yeast goes in your Dopplebock. Are you trying the dried yeast due to ease of use?
> Any chance you could split the batch and use Wyeast 2206 or Whitelabs 833 alongside the 189?
> 
> I think your grist looks fair. Good luck.
> ...



Ease is one reason - but more the fact that I like to be able to offer advice to people buying it. Works great in an Oktoberfest, so hoping it'll handle the bock ok.
Which do you prefer - original girst or with the lesser caraaroma?

Cheers Ross


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## Ross (9/5/07)

Finally got to put this one down today...Made a few changes after the feedback & added The NS for bittering after trying an excellent Schwarzbier by Aussie Claret, featuring the same hop. Not one I'd have thought of in a dark beer.

Carbrook Dopplebock 

Type: All Grain
Date: 9/05/2007 
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Brewer: Ross 
Boil Size: 38.41 L 
Boil Time: 120 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 58.1 % 
3.00 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 34.9 % 
0.40 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 4.7 % 
0.20 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 2.3 % 
27.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (60 min) Hops 26.5 IBU 
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs CraftBrewer Swiss Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.080 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 % 
Bitterness: 26.5 IBU
Est Color: 36.7 EBC 
Mashed at 66c - Single infusion Batch sparge


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## Kai (10/5/07)

Sorry, missed this the second time around. 300g of Caraaroma would have been fine, 400g will be fine too. I reckon the important thing will be that you get the sort of attenuation you're after. To me 1.021 is still pretty stonkin' high even for an OG of 1.080.

Either way it might come out nice right away or it might need a bit of age on it to dry it out and tame down any rampant maltiness. Let us know how it turns out.


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## Stuster (10/5/07)

Looks nice, Ross. It does seem strange that NS would go in a dark beer, but the proof is in the (pudding) beer.

One thing I did notice about your recipe is the gypsum. In theory, basically sulphates emphasise hoppiness, while chlorides emphasise maltiness. It could be worth trying some CaCl in some of your malty beers instead of the gypsum. I guess you are using it to balance the pH and that will do the same job in that regard, but it 'should' result in a maltier beer. Anyway, just a thought.


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## Ross (10/5/07)

Stuster said:


> Looks nice, Ross. It does seem strange that NS would go in a dark beer, but the proof is in the (pudding) beer.
> 
> One thing I did notice about your recipe is the gypsum. In theory, basically sulphates emphasise hoppiness, while chlorides emphasise maltiness. It could be worth trying some CaCl in some of your malty beers instead of the gypsum. I guess you are using it to balance the pH and that will do the same job in that regard, but it 'should' result in a maltier beer. Anyway, just a thought.



Goods point on the calcium chloride - I didn't have any CaCl on hand otherwise I'd have added that also, after reading the guidelines on the style. The CaSo4 was added to emphasise the hop, as I'd like to get a bit of the NS grapey character into the beer, which with just a small 60min addition I reckoned needed a little boost. Here's hoping it attenuates fairly well & gives me what I'm looking for - otherwise back to the drawing board  

Thanks for all the input guys...

Cheers Ross


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## warrenlw63 (10/5/07)

FWIW worth guys I don't think 1 teaspoon of gypsum is going to make an iota of difference regardless. It's hardly burtonising the water with massive amounts. What would a teaspoon be... Around 3g ??

I reckon the recipe looks interesting Ross... Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. Nelson Sauvin would be nice in anything. :beerbang: 

Warren -


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## Stuster (10/5/07)

That's true, warren. Just been thinking too much about water I guess. Have to think about another drink instead. :chug:


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## Lukes (10/5/07)

Nelson in a dark beer.
Ross, now you get me thinking about a Nelson Steam real soon.
How far away are the New 06 NZ flowers?
 
- Luke


Flower power :beerbang:


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## Ross (10/5/07)

Lukes said:


> Nelson in a dark beer.
> Ross, now you get me thinking about a Nelson Steam real soon.
> How far away are the New 06 NZ flowers?
> 
> ...



Unfortunately there was a slight delay in processing, so still 2 to 3 weeks away - & they'll be '07  

cheers Ross


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## Lukes (10/5/07)

Yep, silly me 07 flowers.


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## warrenlw63 (10/5/07)

Aluminium pot Luke? :lol: 

Warren -


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## DarkFaerytale (11/5/07)

kind of a thread hijack, i'll be making my first dopplebock in a few weeks as the first brew in the new DarkFaerytales brewery (moving house and get a garage all to my own   ) 

anywho i was reading in radical brewing that taking your first runnings and boiling them down befor adding to the rest of the runnings gives you a decoction like flavour, has anyone tryed this? what where your thoughts? good idea or just use melanoidin and don't worry about it?

cheers

-Phill


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## DarkFaerytale (14/5/07)

DarkFaerytale said:


> i was reading in radical brewing that taking your first runnings and boiling them down befor adding to the rest of the runnings gives you a decoction like flavour, has anyone tryed this? what where your thoughts? good idea or just use melanoidin and don't worry about it?
> 
> cheers
> 
> -Phill



*bump*


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## PostModern (14/5/07)

DarkFaerytale said:


> kind of a thread hijack, i'll be making my first dopplebock in a few weeks as the first brew in the new DarkFaerytales brewery (moving house and get a garage all to my own   )
> 
> anywho i was reading in radical brewing that taking your first runnings and boiling them down befor adding to the rest of the runnings gives you a decoction like flavour, has anyone tryed this? what where your thoughts? good idea or just use melanoidin and don't worry about it?
> 
> ...



I made the BBD recipe at the IBU BBD. I didn't decoct, just subbed the Carahell for 400g or so of melanoidin. To hell with decocting, boiling off first runnings, etc. Let the maltster do the work.

I was a bit off target in efficiency and mashed a touch warmer than I would have liked, so I tossed 500g of candi in there (thanks Barry). The sugar should dry it out a bit, as well as getting my OG bang on target.


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## DarkFaerytale (14/5/07)

ta Postmodern

thanks for the tip on using suger too

-Phill


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## SJW (14/5/07)

I am doing my first Doppellboak on friday, here is the recipe: (wish me luck)

#41 Doppellbock 

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 28.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 41.67 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 120 min Equipment: Big teds keg 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 

Ingredients

4000.00 gm Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 29.9 % 
1000.00 gm Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 29.9 
4000.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 29.9 % 
1000.00 gm Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 10.0 % 
40.00 gm Carafa I (Weyermann) (630.4 EBC) Grain 0.5 % 
60.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00%] (120 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 22.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00%] (10 min) Hops 3.4 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Bavarian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2206) Yeast-Lager 

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.084 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.020 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.0 % 
Bitterness: 25.7 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l 
Est Color: 33.8 EBC Color: Color 

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 10050.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 24.73 L Grain Temperature: 20.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 20.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 27.00 L of water at 72.5 C 66.0 C 75 min


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## PostModern (14/5/07)

DarkFaerytale said:


> ta Postmodern
> 
> thanks for the tip on using suger too
> 
> -Phill



Just don't tell the Germans


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## Ross (22/6/07)

Ross said:


> Finally got to put this one down today...Made a few changes after the feedback & added The NS for bittering after trying an excellent Schwarzbier by Aussie Claret, featuring the same hop. Not one I'd have thought of in a dark beer.
> 
> Carbrook Dopplebock
> 
> ...



For those interested the NS IMO works superbly in this style. The beer has onbly been in the keg 3 weeks & is tasting fantastic. I'd rate it in the top 5 beers I've ever made. :chug: 

Cheers Ross


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## Stuster (22/6/07)

Very interesting, Ross. It's certainly not a combination I'd have thought of. What sort of flavour does it seem to contribute?


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## Ross (22/6/07)

Stuster said:


> Very interesting, Ross. It's certainly not a combination I'd have thought of. What sort of flavour does it seem to contribute?



Hard for me to say exactly what it's added, as I've never made one before. It has a slight grapeyness that I'd put down to the hop, but this could easily be coming from the grain as well. All I can say is, that it tastes perfectly balanced & reading through the BJCP guidelines, it seems right on the money in every department. That said, someone who knows there Bocks, might disagree - I'm intending on get some proffesional judgement on it at next months beer luncheon - but either way i love it & thats what counts


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## Stuster (22/6/07)

Very true. We do brew for ourselves after all.

I do know what you mean about not knowing what exactly it gives to the beer. I've made so many different beers it's hard to know sometimes what ingredient contributes what exactly. It may be the best learning experience to alter one variable at a time so you know what it brings to the beer, but that means you'd have to drink so much same-y beer. Personally, I love variety. :chug:


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## Zizzle (22/6/07)

I heard that Brad really loved this one the other day Rosco :beer:


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## Screwtop (22/6/07)

Ross said:


> Hard for me to say exactly what it's added, as I've never made one before. It has a slight grapeyness that I'd put down to the hop, but this could easily be coming from the grain as well. All I can say is, that it tastes perfectly balanced & reading through the BJCP guidelines, it seems right on the money in every department. That said, someone who knows there Bocks, might disagree - I'm intending on get some proffesional judgement on it at next months beer luncheon - but either way i love it & thats what counts



Have to put this one in my "GREAT HOMEBREWED BEERS LIST" only about 5 live there at present it's a very special place. This example is a cracker, fits the guidelines but more importantly I LOVE IT! Geez Ross, just get my mind set on the next beer style to try and you do this to a man. Stuff it the others have to wait!

Got hooked on Bock at Scharers, all Mel's fault she suggested we try it, Pumpy and the rest of us tried to drink it all so there was none left for anyone else, but they speared another keg, we were doomed (and pissed). 

Congrats Ross another great beer, like to see how it morphs with age, but somehow don't think it will last long!


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## Banshee (4/8/10)

I will brew a dopplebock one of these days and want to know how long do you cc a beer this big. I know the comercial breweries go as long as 9 months.
What about the home brewer?
I was aiming at least 3 months up to 6.
I'm planning on cc, force carb and then filter on the way to bottles.


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