# Working Out Mash Efficiency In Metric?



## daddywillwill (29/7/09)

hey guys.
is there an easy way of working out mash efficiency in metric? i have the working of imperial but not metric.

can someone please help.
Thanks
Willis


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## Sammus (29/7/09)

I'm not sure I follow you. You use (your extract)/(extract potential) for your efficiency... extract potential depends on the recipe and grains used.

Or are the extract potential values you have for different grains given in ppg or something? I think that's points pound per gallon or something. That's points of gravity per pound of grain for a 1gal batch. So if you wanted points per kilo per litre or something, it shouldn't be too hard to convert. So if you get 1 point from 1 pound of malt in a gallon of water, then you get 1 point from 0.45kg in 3.79L. Notice you'll get higher gravity mashing the same weight in less water, so we multiply the gravity by 3.79 and get 3.79 points per 0.45kg in 1L of water. Then again, mashing more grain will give you higher gravity, so we divide by 0.45 to get 8.422 points per kg per L.

So without all the rounding, 1p p g = 8.3454 p kg L ...I think :unsure:


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## daddywillwill (29/7/09)

ok
i have been reading john palmer's book and seeing he's american he uses ppg (point/pounds/gallons) in Australia we would be point/kg/litres wouldn't we?
its just i'm getting all setup for my first all grain and want to know how to work it out so i can see what my efficiency was and improve on it?
thanks


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

I posted about it once....I think I have it in my bookmarks, somewhere.....it uses HWE, kilos and litres instead of points, pounds and gallons....hang on a tick, I'll see if I can find it (cos I can't remember it ottomh)

edit: here it is. The formulas are written in context of finding the gravity, not the efficiency (cos that was the context of the thread), but it's just a matter of rearranging.

edit v2: helps if I put in the link


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## daddywillwill (29/7/09)

ok so 386HWE is 100% dry yield.
i have beersmith, so if i go off the dry yield and mulitply by 386 then divide by the % i.e.75%, gives me my HWE?


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## Sammus (29/7/09)

if you're using beersmith, why do you need this? it calculates efficiency for you.

and btw I worked out points/kilo/litre above in an edit.


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

Sammus said:


> if you're using beersmith, why do you need this? it calculates efficiency for you.



:lol: 
Yep, Sammus is right, it does. 

but, to answer your question...

dry yield percentage x 386 = HWE

eg; golden promise 
potential: 1.038
Dry yield: 82%

so, 386 x 0.82 = 316.52 (ie 317)HWE

edit: but if using beersmith, use 70% as a starting point for your recipe design, given that you're a new AGer. Then, when you brew, click on the 'brewhouse efficiency' tab, and enter the measured values. This will then work your efficiencies out for you. Then next time, use that as the starting point. You might get a bit of fluctuation in your efficiencies when starting, cos you're still nailing down the processes, but it will eventually even out


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## warra48 (30/7/09)

Here ya go. Can't find the original thread, but this is copied from it into one of my own documents:

Our good member Jayse posted this a couple of years ago and it seems a quick and easy method.

Mash Efficiency

Anyway brew maths is quite simple.

How it works is all malts and adjuncts etc give a different gravity. 
The specs are all written as H.W.E which is hot water extract with sugar being the highest at 386 so everything else is given as a % of that. ie, pale malt is around 81% which gives you around 309. this is the total gravity you can get with 1 kilo in 1 litre but it is impossible to get this, this is 100% effeincy.
the same goes for american calcs but its in P.P.G which is the gravity of 1 pound in 1 gallon. The same specs are used ie. 81% for pale malt gives you 37 points of gravity.

So a simple example to work out total potential for 5 kg of pale malt in 23 litres is
5 x 309 / 23 = 67 (1.067)

now to work out your effiency you divide the gravity you got with this brew. Say you got 1.050 so 50/67 =.74 you got 74% effiency.
Then next time when you do the calc. 5 x 309 /23 =you simply times this by .74 .
This gives you your expected gravity, 

For your first batches i would stick to using 60-65%.
So do the 5 x 309/ 23 = 67.
then times 67 by .65 = 43(1.043)


am i making any sense here
Jayse

p.s the hwe numbers are all on the malt craft site other malts like crystal malt are around 75% some malts can be lower and some higher.
to get the number times 386 by the percent as a decimal point ie pale malt at 81% gives you 386 x .81 =312 

Ale -------81% X 386 = 312
Pilsner----------------81%
Hoepfner Munich----80% 308
Melanoiden--------- -80%
Caramalt pils---------79% 305
Crystal---------------- 75%

Well, it's the method you will see in Australia. 

Say the HWE is 308 litre degrees per kilogram for a malt. 
That means 5kg in 20L will give you : (308 x 5)/20 = 77. i.e. 1.077 SG at 100% efficiency. Multiply that by your efficiency (eg. 75%) gives you 77 x 0.75 = 57.75 or close enough to 1.058.


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## jayse (30/7/09)

It is pretty straight forward and shouldn't be too hard to get your head around all that, I failed even business maths in high schoool yet had no dramas working all that out. So if I can do it anyone can.

This is included in the aussie homebrewer guide to the galaxy which is pinned to the top of the all grain brewing forum.


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## buttersd70 (30/7/09)

warra48 said:


> Can't find the original thread....
> 
> Our good member Jayse posted this a couple of years ago and it seems a quick and easy method.


lol. This is from the _exact _thread I was looking for back in feb when I responded to that thread I linked to.
:lol:


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## apd (30/7/09)

daddywillwill,

Palmers book (the hard copy) actually mentions metric measurements for extract potential so I'm assuming you are reading the online version which doesn't seem to.

I'd recommend working things out from scratch in metric (rather than frigging around converting things) the way previous posters have suggested but if you want to convert an imperial extract potential (say 37ppg) to a metric measurement I think you just multiply it by 8.345. (I'm working from memory of Palmer's book so the figure may be wrong but it seems to match up with Jayse's post).

i.e.

37ppg x 8.345 = 309HWE (approx.)

Andrew


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## hazard (30/7/09)

Sammus said:


> if you're using beersmith, why do you need this? it calculates efficiency for you.
> 
> and btw I worked out points/kilo/litre above in an edit.



I use BeerSmith, not sure if it calculates efficiency, the way I use it is this:
- input grains, assumed efficiency, and post boil volume. For a first AG start with 70 to 75%.
- Beersmith will give estimated OG. 
- After you have added wort to fermentor, measure OG and compare to beersmith. If you have hit estimated OG then you have hit that efficeincy. Ig maeasure OG is less than estimated OG, efficiency is less than assumed efficeincy. In this case, adjust assumed efficency in Beersmith until estimated OG equals measured OG and this is your efficeincy.

I never worry about ppg and all that stuff, too easy using Beersmith.


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## buttersd70 (30/7/09)

hazard said:


> I use BeerSmith, not sure if it calculates efficiency





buttersd70 said:


> Then, when you brew, click on the 'brewhouse efficiency' tab, and enter the measured values. This will then work your efficiencies out for you.\


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## daddywillwill (30/7/09)

awesome thanks heaps to all posters. 
make so much more sense now, and with beersmith as was said earlier by a few of you guys i'll use beersmith. but now i know how to work it out outside beersmith as well.
Thanks again
Willis


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## buttersd70 (30/7/09)

daddywillwill said:


> but now i know how to work it out outside beersmith as well.



imho, knowing how to work it manually is a good thing, even if you never actually do it....it makes you think about the process a bit more than just using software, to give a deeper understanding of the '...why?'. Glad to help.


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