# Carlton Draught AG recipe



## jaypes

I have been asked by my bro-in-law for a Carlton Draught clone, anyone here have a good recipe that they can share?

I did search but most of the hits that came back were "worst beers you've ever tasted"


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## Bribie G

AG it's quite easy. Very hard to replicate Aussie lagers via kits or extracts, however.

Now before the usual comments of "hold a cat over the fermenter and get him to piss in it", this is a serious brewing forum - or used to be - so try this AG recipe, works ok for a Standard Aussie which should turn out about as close as you can get to CD - it's not only in the recipe it's in the procedure as well, which is somewhat different to Euro lagers.

*Recipe:*

*Aussie Mega*
Australian Lager

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 24.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.900
Total Hops (g): 25.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (°P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (°P): 2.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.12 %
Colour (SRM): 4.5 (EBC): 8.9
Bitterness (IBU): 22.0 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

*Grain Bill*
----------------
4.500 kg Pale Malt Barrett Burston (91.84%)
0.400 kg Cane Sugar (8.16%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
25.0 g Pride of Ringwood Leaf (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)

*Method:*

Single step Infusion at 63°C for 120 Minutes.
Mashout 78°C for 20 mins
Edit: boil for 90 mins adjusting with boiling water if it's getting a bit too concentrated on your equipment. Hops in after 30 mins.
Ferment at 13°C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager for five days then let it slowly rise to 19°C over four days
Lager at -1°C for ten days only.

If you can get isohop then use some of that instead of the POR - the hop flowers actually make it a bit more like a Cascade Brewery lager. If you prefer a dried yeast then use S-23 and just run the whole thing through at 18° then lager.


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## stakka82

With respect Bribie I believe going with W34-70 would be the dry equivalent.


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## tazman1967

I agree with stakka82, 2 x packets of W34-70 is my " Carlton" dry yeast for the clones. Same fermentation method.


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## Rowy

Find a horse place a glass under its pizzle. ..........await urination.......cool to a suitable temperature........drink


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## Bribie G

^^ As I mentioned in post #2

I haven't actually used a dry yeast in an Aussie Lager since I learned from a CUB employee that the Danish is a very similar strain. From Ross's recent post Bacchus uses S-23 in their Aussies and S-186 in others so I was going on that,


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## jaypes

never used w34-70, read its a bit messy on northernbrewer - true or bs?


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## Bribie G

I find it chucks massive sulphur but is great for Pilseners which have a tiny bit of sulphur in the nose. With Aussies you really don't want to taste anything much apart from some grain and a little bitterness in the finish.


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## Nick JD

I found a low mash (63C) with 100% BB Ale malt and PoR to 20 IBUs at 60 minutes with 34/70 cracks it. That said, any lager yeast will do - the _complete lack of flavour _is what this beer strives for.


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## emnpaul

I've used 34/70 and s-23 at warmer than ideal lager temps and IIRC the S-23 was by far the more sulphury of the two.


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## tazman1967

i agree with Nick JD, that's my take on CUB clones


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## Bribie G

The CUB tap beer I really like is Reschs Draught, it has some hop character and a tiny bit of roast barley to give it that darker gold colour. May have mentioned that last year at Woolgoolga Diggers I drank some Paulaner then straight into the bar for a few Reschs and it held its head up proudly. Sadly it's gone from most NSW pubs, squeezed out by Fat Yak, Coopers and James Squire tap contracts.


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## stakka82

jaypes said:


> never used w34-70, read its a bit messy on northernbrewer - true or bs?


It's extremely clean and a great yeast if handled correctly, decent pitch and keep it under 13 degrees, I always employ a d rest too.

I have used it at 15 and it totally goes to shit, also without a d-rest it throws a lot of diacetyl. Letting it get to 19 after 5 days vigorous ferment after decent pitch as bribie suggested will serve the d rest function. Benefits greatly from 1-2 weeks of lagering too, so the rest of Bribies post seems spot on, that said I have never tried to do a CUB clone.

S-23 is lower maintenance and more forgiving by I find it to be less clean (ie it HAS a flavour where 34/70 i find to be completely neutral).


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## tazman1967

Might try a touch of roast barley in my next CUB beer, thanks for the tip Bribe G.


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## ///

With all due respect to Bribie, the mash sequence would more likely go in ramps of. 40/70/75 c

70c is a funny temperature, no not really. Create lots of dextrine which can form the place of using crystal malt.

Well played on the bit if RB too ...


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## petesbrew

I've got a good idea.
Buy a slab, rip all the labels off. get out some steel wool and scrub the bottle tops clean.
Make a shitty label and stick them on.
Give them to your brother in law.

Your welcome.


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## Bribie G

I'll try that mash schedule as suggested by ///
The low 60s then up to mashout was suggested by a member who makes the stuff but that was a few years ago.

Wouldn't the 70 be more suitable for the likes of Carlton Mid or XXXX Gold which I believe may be all malt?


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## tazman1967

I've been doing a 72 D mash rest for 15 Min or so for the last couple of beers,good head and lacing on a beer IHMO


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## Dan Dan

petesbrew said:


> I've got a good idea.
> Buy a slab, rip all the labels off. get out some steel wool and scrub the bottle tops clean.
> Make a shitty label and stick them on.
> Give them to your brother in law.
> 
> Your welcome.


Too much hard work!


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## jaypes

Dan Dan said:


> Too much hard work!


Besides he wants to help make it as well (He's a kit brewer)


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## Bribie G

jaypes said:


> Besides he wants to help make it as well (He's a kit brewer)


Yes, take him to the dark side 

re mash schedule, yes the German Hochkurz mash goes 62 - 72 - 78 and would definitely account for the nice head on most Pils brews.
I'd imagined that the 63-78 mash would produce a more fermentable wort with less emphasis on the head - most Aussie Pub beers have low heads.
However when you think about it, using the schedule suggested by /// you skip over that 62 sacch rest and go straight to the Dex Rest then..

The added cane sugars act as if they are the 62 rest. (edit: rephrase that: the added cane sugars provide fermentables that sort of mimic what you would have got with a 62 or 63 rest)

Boom Tish - penny drops - thank's /// will do this next time.


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## gava

I recently did a "what have I got" brew with some Pills/carapils maybe some wheat low hop bill and us-04 mashed around 65 with a 90min boil (for the pils malt) and before I dry hopped my keg it could have been classed as a Carlton draught type of beer. The us-04 is an english ale yeast but with medium Attenuation and high Flocculation it cleared my beers out nicely.

I'm all for peoples own taste but I'd highly recommend introducing this person to better class of beers so next time you brew something for him you can also like to drink it 

-GAv


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## welly2

Bribie G said:


> The CUB tap beer I really like is Reschs Draught, it has some hop character and a tiny bit of roast barley to give it that darker gold colour. May have mentioned that last year at Woolgoolga Diggers I drank some Paulaner then straight into the bar for a few Reschs and it held its head up proudly. Sadly it's gone from most NSW pubs, squeezed out by Fat Yak, Coopers and James Squire tap contracts.


I'm with you. If I see Reschs on tap in a typical non-craft pub and there isn't something like a Coopers or Matilda Bay then I'll happily drink that instead.


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## Bribie G

I'd guess it's one of those 'heritage' beers that they have just continued to crank out and crank out relatively unchanged since the 1970s or earlier. Why fix what ain't broke. Another good one is Melbourne Bitter - has a definite hop nose and some maltiness.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

hey

Sorry to bring back an oldie, but i have a question and want to have a stab at a aussie style draught.

Is Cane Sugar- white sugar, raw sugar, brown sugar or something else?

Also when do you add the sugar?

Cheers :chug:


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## slcmorro

Cane sugar is white sugar. You can just add it into the boil, it'll be fine.


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## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Thanks mate!!


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## Bribie G

OT but I've found Reschs Original Draught just 20 mins from where I live at the Coopernook Hotel just North of Taree. :chug: There is a God.



On topic, I wouldn't even put the sugar in the boil, just add it as a syrup into the FV as I'm sure CUB do. If you are going to dispose of trub after the boil, why waste good sugar by disposing of *sweetened *trub. B)


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## DU99

i thought pure cane sugar would be raw sugar..white sugar is refined from raw.


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## Bribie G

"cane sugar" is just sucrose. In many parts of the world nowadays sucrose is made from Sugar Beet and the name "cane" sugar was introduced by the likes of Tate and Lyle to give some sort of cachet to their imported product (tropical, sunshine, jamaica etc). Just sucrose.


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## TheWiggman

I've read in numerous threads and from good advice that BB pale malt is _the_ malt to use. I've got JW pilsner and ale malt in stock and Cheeky Peak only do BB in on special order. I've got many mates here in my home town who are Carlton Draught devotees - dead-set haven't been able to get a VB on tap here for the life of me. It's like the Victorians don't drink it. Anyway...

Planning to brew this weekend following standard above advice but don't have BB pale. Do I use -

JW pils
Mix of JW pils and JW ale
Weyermann pils
Gladfields ale
Remembering I'm trying to go for CD. Yes maybe we can all make better beer with ale yeast, specialty malts, Amarillo blah blah but I'm targeting the delicate CUB mouse piss and little in the way of anything else.

If none of the above are suitable then I'm bailing on it and doing a XXXX Bitter clone with my leftover Cluster flowers, oh baby.


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## labels

jaypes said:


> I have been asked by my bro-in-law for a Carlton Draught clone, anyone here have a good recipe that they can share?
> 
> I did search but most of the hits that came back were "worst beers you've ever tasted"


Yes, I have succeeded in replicating this beer, albeit by accident. Although I don't have records of the exact recipe I can tell you the following.

Malt: Use BB ale malt (not lager malt), plus a small percentage of medium crystal - say 5%
Hops: Use Pride of Ringwood pellets at 60mins only - to around 20ibu
Yeast: Use Wy2042 and ferment at the right temperature, fermentation temperature control is critical.

This produced a fine example of an Aussie Draught lager beer, very, very similar to Carlton Draught.

Despite what others may say, to copy a standard draught lager and get it right is a great achievement and a great sense of satisfaction of accomplishment and not something most home brewers can do. Carlton Draught is a long, long way from one of favourite beers but is nevertheless a well brewed beer with exceptional consistency. 

EDIT: This is an old topic, but I hope someone might get some useful information from my post and succeed


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Would you mash single infusion at about 64 or 65?


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## dicko

@ labels.....no sugar??


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## TheWiggman

TheWiggman said:


> Planning to brew this weekend following standard above advice but don't have BB pale. Do I use -
> 
> JW pils
> Mix of JW pils and JW ale
> Weyermann pils
> Gladfields ale


*cough*


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## labels

I did not add sugar to the Carlton clone. I used a single infusion mash for 60 mins at 65C.


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## Bribie G

Using BB ale malt you don't _have_ to add sugar. For example many of the "all malt" lagers (including the dreadful Brewers Brite from the old Bluetongue brewery, now defunct) don't actually taste all that malty. However sugar would give that really dry quaffability-on-a-hot-day effect that you get in many brews such as Blondes, xtra dry and lo carb megaswills.


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## labels

I'm with Bribie on this one, the sugar is used at commercial brewing level in much the same way as dilution is used. To max out the brewhouse to maximize return. Sugar is not part of the flavor profile anyway.

You can produce nice dry lagers on a home brewing level without sugar. Use a lager malt which is lightly kilned, minimal use of crystal malts, a mash temp of 65-66C for 90mins and a 1 hour boil (longer for more colour/caramelisation) and a yeast which attenuates well.


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## thebigwilk

I got a sixth place in this years vic brew comp in the Aussie lager category I used wyeast 2124 fermented at 19c from start to finish it was done in four days filtered it kegged it lagered it for a few weeks used 90% pils 7% crystal 3% cane sugar. 90 min boil POR hops at 90 min 28 IBUs. go figure ?
Cheers!


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## mxd

haven't made one yet

but one that I tried and seemed ok to me was a simple
4kg JW ale
400 g sugarz
POR at 60 to 20 to 22 IBU
mash at 63 ish

tried it at 18 degrees with us 05 and 10 degrees with 34/70 and 18 degrees with s-189

they were all fine (tried at different times), the recipe owner thought the s-189 was his preference but was going to stick with us05 as it was easier for his temp control.


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## TheWiggman

Well I'm not sure if I'm invisible or all you bullies just chose to ignore me, but I chickened out and am doing a XXXX Bitter clone instead.
Cheeky Peak are getting a bag of BB pale malt in for me, a few weeks away but will do my next lager with that as recommended.
For now I'm off to my room to play Dungeons & Dragons with my online REAL friends...


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## Bribie G

You should download a couple of Steam games and really improve your social standing. Are you using Cluster in the XXXX?


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## TheWiggman

Ahh if only there were time for games when you have to brew.

Main differences -

XXXX Bitter
JW pilsner* malt, 250g light crystal, 350g sugaz, Cluster at 60 mins (and maybe some late, I love me some Cluster)

Carlton Draught
BB pale malt, 350g sugaz, PoR at 60 mins

Both with 2042.
They're similar but hey, that's Aussie lagers for you. If I'm after a CD clone then I want something that tastes like CD, as opposed to something similar but maybe better. Or worse, shudder.
* My first effort with MHB-sourced MEU(?) malt made a closer beer, I'm thinking JW pils isn't the best for it.


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## Bribie G

Inspired by this magnificent thread a couple of days ago I whipped up a mega lager, 40L batch to fill two kegs.

BB pale 75% of gravity
Mix of white and raw supermarket sugar 25% of gravity

To an OG of 1047

Single addition of latest season POR pellets to 23 IBU that could be a bit overkill, but I used to enjoy the distinct bitterness of the old time Carlton Draught before it became wanky "Brewery fresh".

For yeast, I had sachets of Brewcraft Premium Lager yeast and Brewcraft European Lager yeasts I got from the LHBS. I've never used either so I just mixed them, rehydrated, and they are hammering away in good health at 18 (garage ambient)

Ten days at ambient then I'll lager for ten at near freezing.

I just got back from t'club where I had a couple of VBs. Quite enjoyed them believe it or not, for what they are.

edit: looking at another old thread I reckon I've probably got myself a mix of S-23 and W 34/70. Let the best yeast win


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## Garfield

To the lords of hombrew wisdom - brand new here... just signed up to post on this thread!

Been hombrewing for a few months, mostly pale ales and porters. You guys inspired me to try my first lager to impress my mates (with no taste in good beers) with the carlton clone which was as posted early on. I mostly followed the recipe but made a few changes - a half batch made with extract:


*Recipe:*
Batch Size (L): 13L
Total Grain (kg): 1kg light LME
Cane Sugar (kg): Argh can't remember sorry (just enough to bring OG up)
Total Hops (g): 12.00 Pride of Ringwood
Yeast: 1 packet S-23
Original Gravity (OG): 1.052
*Method:*
60min Hops boil with fast chill down to 13'C
Pitched rehydrated yeast S-23
Fermented at 13°C for five days
Diacytel rested slowly up to 19°C over four days
Lagered at 0°C for ten days only.

But my problem is this...

I was ready to bottle after the 10 day lager but I measured the SG to find its still 1020! Foolishly I hadn't checked garvity until now. It tastes nice and clean but very sweet, so definately still fermentables in there. Here's where I need your help:

1. Had I have been checking SG occasionally, would I have waited for a certain SG before diacytel rest or a certain SG before the lager phase? I was kinda flying blind
2. What should I do - keep lagering? How long? Will the gravity continue to drop? Should I warm it back up to 13'C? Repitch yeast? Let the cat piss in it?

I think it has potential to be good. Just need damage control.

Cheers

P.S. feels good to finally post after months of reading this forum.


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## micblair

75:25 Pale/dextrose
20 IBU POR, single bittering addition. 
15 million cells ml W-34/70, fermented at 15-17C.
Mash and ferment as dry as your skills and equipment will allow.


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