# Rice Malt Syrup From Coles?



## mje1980

Hey guys, just found some rice malt syrup at coles. I was wondering if it could be used in a rice lager. Im pretty sure its rice LME. 

The only ingredient listed is rice, and the label says

"Made by culturing rice with enzymes to breakdown the starches, and then cooking until a syrup". 

Also "final product contains maltose, and a small amount of glucose"

Sounds like its mashed then reduced, pretty similar to LME, is it not??

It also says no added sugar, or artificial flavours. 

3.60 for 500g

What you guys think??. Im pretty sure this is suitable for use in a rice lager, but i just want to make sure, otherwise i'll eat it on toast, mmmmmm.


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## Swinging Beef

Will make for low gluten, but not gluten free beer.

Eat it on toast? WHAT?


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## mje1980

Swinging Beef said:


> Will make for low gluten, but not gluten free beer.
> 
> Eat it on toast? WHAT?




Not interested in low gluten mate, i just saw it and thought i'd try a lager with it. It says its a honey replacement, so hey, i'll try it. If not my dogs will eat anything so.......!!


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## warrenlw63

mje It will work. Just don't expect it to be as lightly coloured as mashing actual rice or flakes.

Warren -


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## Jakechan

Ive bought it to use in malted smoothies in the past. Yummm.


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## PostModern

At $7.20 per kg it's not cheaper than rice either. I made a nice pale rice lager in summer 07/08 just by overcooking 500g of rice and chucking it in the mash.


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## geoffi

Here's what Beer Tools has to say about rice syrup.

"Used like other rice adjuncts in American and Japenes lagers to provide a dry, clean taste and light body. Adds gravity without changing body or flavor substantially. Use in place of corn sugar in small quantities."

So a light quaffer-style lager would be the obvious use for this one.


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## Katherine

It's a replacement for golden syrup isnt it???? probably go well on toast... or if your'e making cookies... not sure about putting it in beer for what you want it for!


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## Bribie G

Funny this post should come up, just on Saturday I was browsing the big Chinese supermarket in Fortitude Valley Brisbane and came across an identical sounding product called 'Maltose', also in 500g tubs for about the same price as the one you have found. I guess they are the same type of product and (typical of every home brewer I run everthing I see through the filter of 'how could this be adapted to brewing :lol: ) my first thoughts were hmmmmm could be a handy little adjunct. 

I work across the street and can pick up a couple of tubs any time. I have used Lyles golden syrup in UK bitters and that turns out nice as well. Since brewing my first APA I'm becoming attracted to US styles and I reckon this product could go nicely in a lighter style APA and allow the US hops to shine through.


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## Jakechan

Katie said:


> It's a replacement for golden syrup isnt it???? probably go well on toast... or if your'e making cookies... not sure about putting it in beer for what you want it for!


I dont think so. Golden Syrup is much sweeter. The Rice Malt is just malty.


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## Swinging Beef

PostModern said:


> At $7.20 per kg it's not cheaper than rice either. I made a nice pale rice lager in summer 07/08 just by overcooking 500g of rice and chucking it in the mash.


Not too cloudy or starchy?


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## Katherine

Taste may be different but it is used as a replacement in baking cookies etc. Healthier option,.


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## mje1980

PostModern said:


> At $7.20 per kg it's not cheaper than rice either. I made a nice pale rice lager in summer 07/08 just by overcooking 500g of rice and chucking it in the mash.




Rob, is that all that needs to be done with rice, just cooking it before throwing it in the mash?? HOw easy!!, and very cheap!!


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## PostModern

Swinging Beef said:


> Not too cloudy or starchy?



Crystal clear. Mashed with plenty of Pilsner malt.



mje1980 said:


> Rob, is that all that needs to be done with rice, just cooking it before throwing it in the mash?? HOw easy!!, and very cheap!!



Yes, mate. Lots of info on here about cereal mashing. You can use the heat of the rice addition to do a step mash as well.


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## mje1980

warrenlw63 said:


> mje It will work. Just don't expect it to be as lightly coloured as mashing actual rice or flakes.
> 
> Warren -




You're right mate, it is the colour of honey, im not fussed about colour, so i'll give it a crack.


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## sijani

Strange coincidence. I saw this or a very similar product yesterday when I brought my pots from an Asian cookware shop.

They are selling it at $1.30 for 500g. $2.60/K.g. is not bad...


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## mje1980

Can anyone give me some rough guidelines for my "kung fu panda lager"?

Og, and IBU is all i need really.


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## geoffi

mje1980 said:


> Rob, is that all that needs to be done with rice, just cooking it before throwing it in the mash?? HOw easy!!, and very cheap!!




Yes, I've done that too, Mark. With a couple CAPs I've used both cooked-to-mush rice and popcorn. Efficiency came out pretty good (75-80%) so I guess that's a good indication that it works. Oh, and the beer tasted great too.


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## afromaiko

Use a jar of this (500gms I think?) in a brew together with a couple of kilos of LDME, a handful of carapils and some noble hops for a light style Asian lager. Congrats on finding the stuff, I bought some once but since then it's always sold out whenever I've looked for it again. The manufacturers never returned my email enquiries, and it looks like the local mega Coles near me might have even removed it from the shelves now. Brewcraft also sell a similar malt in their Asahi kit, and I think they call it 'Blonde Malt' or something like that. 

EDIT: If doing AG then don't both with this stuff, just use cooked medium or short grain rice instead.


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## Bribie G

mje1980 said:


> Rob, is that all that needs to be done with rice, just cooking it before throwing it in the mash?? HOw easy!!, and very cheap!!



Yup, Budwieser, Millers and Coors came up with that one decades ago :lol:


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## PostModern

BribieG said:


> Yup, Budwieser, Millers and Coors came up with that one decades ago :lol:



They might use a % or two more rice than us, tho.


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## Bribie G

:icon_offtopic: Here's a book I wouldnt mind getting linky and according to the review they started using rice as it was the best way of brewing lighter beers from the six row barley available during the 19th century. At the time rice was actually more expensive than barley. Grain of truth there (no pun). Probably the reason they still do it is because their public have grown up on the stuff, exactly why Australian Breweries like Fosters put 30 % sugar in the brew.


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## PostModern

Yeah, beer is a thin pale fizzy yellow liquid. If they ditched the rice, colour would be darker, therefore it would become ale instead of beer wouldn't it?


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## phonos

mje1980 said:


> Hey guys, just found some rice malt syrup at coles. I was wondering if it could be used in a rice lager. Im pretty sure its rice LME.
> 
> The only ingredient listed is rice, and the label says
> 
> "Made by culturing rice with enzymes to breakdown the starches, and then cooking until a syrup".
> 
> Also "final product contains maltose, and a small amount of glucose"
> 
> Sounds like its mashed then reduced, pretty similar to LME, is it not??
> 
> It also says no added sugar, or artificial flavours.
> 
> 3.60 for 500g
> 
> What you guys think??. Im pretty sure this is suitable for use in a rice lager, but i just want to make sure, otherwise i'll eat it on toast, mmmmmm.



MJE - which aisle did you find it in at coles? (don't say aisle 1!)


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## mika

:icon_offtopic: 
Heard someone say the other day 'that they drink Lager, they just don't like draught'


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## peas_and_corn

Phonos said:


> MJE - which aisle did you find it in at coles? (don't say aisle 1!)



Of course silly, that's where the sauces are kept!


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## Katherine

I think you would find it in the health section...


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## afromaiko

Katie said:


> I think you would find it in the health section...



Yes, that's correct. Although I've only seen it in the bigger stores that have a health food section that looks like a shop within a shop... if you know what I mean?


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## Bribie G

I'll check out the Chinatown shops again at the weekend, if I can get the stuff cheap I might give it a go in a Classic American Lager and see what happens. I've got American hops coming out of my ears at the moment.


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## mje1980

Yep, organic isle!!


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## Millet Man

mje1980 said:


> Yep, organic isle!!


The rice syrup I used to get from coles was not that fermentable from memory, about 65-70% attenuation as I recall, so it won't give as dry a finish as you might be after. By all means give it a go though as the flavour is quite light.

You can check the fermentability by looking at the nutrition information panel on the jar. The amount of carbohydrates should be about 80% (g/100g) but the amount of sugar (maltose, glugose, fructose etc...) will most likely be lower around the 50% mark, with the remaining carbohydrates being unfermentable dextrins. Compare that to honey or golden syrup in which all (most of the time) the carbohydrates are simple sugars and fermentable.

Also I hate it how manufacturers refer to raw grain extracts as "malt syrup", it's rice syrup not rice malt syrup - the grain has not been malted! :wacko: 

Cheers, Andrew.


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## mje1980

Hmmm you scared me now, looks like 1kg cooked rice it is. Might have to eat it on toast after all!!


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## Jakechan

Millet Man said:


> Also I hate it how manufacturers refer to raw grain extracts as "malt syrup", it's rice syrup not rice malt syrup - the grain has not been malted! :wacko:
> 
> Cheers, Andrew.




This stuff tastes pretty malty to me.


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## Millet Man

mje1980 said:


> The only ingredient listed is rice, and the label says
> 
> "Made by culturing rice with enzymes to breakdown the starches, and then cooking until a syrup".
> 
> Also "final product contains maltose, and a small amount of glucose"


Jake,

You're probably tasting the maltose in it (and that stuff does taste nice undiluted), and mje1980 confirms it is made from rice with added enzymes.

Malted rice actually tastes quite digusting, I know - I have malted and brewed with it. I think it has something to do with the oils in the outer layers going rancid during malting. Probably why they use white rice in brewing and not brown.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## Jakechan

Ahhh....cool. Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how it could taste so malty if it wasnt malted.
Cheers,
Jake


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## afromaiko

By enzymes, they could be referring to something like using koji which is what is used to turn the starch to sugar when making sake, or perhaps more relevant in this case amazake. Sake brewing does not involve malting the rice in the sense we know it.


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## Thirsty Boy

rice syrup, corn syrup, half the brewing sugars we use at work (they would be wheat syrup) - all made by chucking bacteria derived enzymes at unmalted grain.

Afro - you should be able to find the rice syrup at pretty much any asian grocery, I've seen it in Coles/Safeway, but I always see it in the Asian shops. Those places are a bonanza for the "can I ferment that?" part of my brain. I've played with tapioca starch (successful) and with arrowroot starch (not so successful) and I can see a lotus root beer in my future one of these days


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## sijani

Has anyone used palm sugar in a stout or porter? Real palm sugar is dark brown, soft and crumbly. You should be able poke it with your fingernail and it will leave a mark. Avoid the pale stuff, it's coconut juice and cane sugar.

The real palm sugar (from Palmyra Palms) has an almost molasses taste with a strong smoky flavour (they reduce the palm tree sap over wood fires).

In south east Asian and parts of India they use the sugar to make Toddy. A distilled drink with a taste somewhere between whiskey and rum.

Would go nicely in a smoked stout :icon_drool2:


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## warrenlw63

sijani said:


> Has anyone used palm sugar in a stout or porter? Real palm sugar is dark brown, soft and crumbly. You should be able poke it with your fingernail and it will leave a mark. Avoid the pale stuff, it's coconut juice and cane sugar.
> 
> The real palm sugar (from Palmyra Palms) has an almost molasses taste with a strong smoky flavour (they reduce the palm tree sap over wood fires).
> 
> In south east Asian and parts of India they use the sugar to make Toddy. A distilled drink with a taste somewhere between whiskey and rum.
> 
> Would go nicely in a smoked stout :icon_drool2:



Sijani I think Neonmeate has some experience in that area. He's experimented with various sugars over the years.

Warren -


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## MarkEinOz

BribieG said:


> I'll check out the Chinatown shops again at the weekend, if I can get the stuff cheap I might give it a go in a Classic American Lager and see what happens. I've got American hops coming out of my ears at the moment.




Or is that Classic Asian Lager? :icon_cheers:


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## MarkEinOz

sijani said:


> Has anyone used palm sugar in a stout or porter? Real palm sugar is dark brown, soft and crumbly. You should be able poke it with your fingernail and it will leave a mark. Avoid the pale stuff, it's coconut juice and cane sugar.
> 
> The real palm sugar (from Palmyra Palms) has an almost molasses taste with a strong smoky flavour (they reduce the palm tree sap over wood fires).
> 
> In south east Asian and parts of India they use the sugar to make Toddy. A distilled drink with a taste somewhere between whiskey and rum.
> 
> Would go nicely in a smoked stout :icon_drool2:




I think it would be well worth the experiment in anything from from a Brown Ale upwards. I thing it would be very interesting in a wee heavy, or strong Old Ale.

Interesting thing about palm sugar is that, well, it doesn't taste as sweet as you think it would is comparison to other reduced sugar like golden syrup etc.

Give it a go! ( as I caste my eyes thoughtfully towards my pantry.....)


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## Fermented

mje1980 said:


> Can anyone give me some rough guidelines for my "kung fu panda lager"?
> 
> Og, and IBU is all i need really.


I did a Tsingtao clone last year. Was 1042 OG and 25 or so IBU off the top of my head. Basically use any German hop combination, after all, it was the Germans who taught beer making to the Chinese and Japanese. I was shooting to match the 'good' Tsingtao in China and not the one we get out here. Came reasonably close in flavour, but colour was too dark. Will probably go with Extra Pale or Pilsener Malt next time. Used S-05 yeast. The rice adds a nice dryness to it.




MarkEinOz said:


> Interesting thing about palm sugar is that, well, it doesn't taste as sweet as you think it would is comparison to other reduced sugar like golden syrup etc.
> 
> Give it a go! ( as I caste my eyes thoughtfully towards my pantry.....)


I've been thinking about this one for a while, but there's a certain warmth to it that I can't figure out how to work with, from a hopping point of view at least. 

Maybe something to try with a Belgian yeast?

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Bribie G

Because I work in Chinatown and regularly buy Palm sugar it occurred to me last year that I might go well in a brew, and I started a thread here about last August. However the opinion was that most brands contain too much oil that would be a head-killer.


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## Fermented

I have a bunch of the dried blocks of it. It's like little brown hockey pucks and a total b*stard to to use in cooking. Mortar and pestle is near useless... Maybe military mortar? 

Just had a look at the pot of palm sugar in the cupboard. It's marked as 'pure palm sugar' and smells kinda like strange dense honey. There doesn't appear to be any oil in it and there's no coconut oil scent. Yellow label with black text, made in Thailand, $2.10 per kilo. I'll whack some in some water over night and see what floaties (oil?) comes off it...

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Katherine

Fermented said:


> I have a bunch of the dried blocks of it. It's like little brown hockey pucks and a total b*stard to to use in cooking. Mortar and pestle is near useless... Maybe military mortar?
> 
> Just had a look at the pot of palm sugar in the cupboard. It's marked as 'pure palm sugar' and smells kinda like strange dense honey. There doesn't appear to be any oil in it and there's no coconut oil scent. Yellow label with black text, made in Thailand, $2.10 per kilo. I'll whack some in some water over night and see what floaties (oil?) comes off it...
> 
> Cheers - Fermented.



I love palm sugar.... it usually has a layer of wax covering the top!


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## Bribie G

Checked out the syrup in Chinatown yesterday, 500g tubs for $2 - I'll pick up a few today and try them. I reckon they would go great in a bye bye *Sol *Trujillo brew :icon_cheers: 

3.5 kg Galaxy
1 kg rice
500g 'maltose' syrup

12 g Galena 60 mins
12 g Galena 10 mins at the risk of totally overhopping :lol: 

US 05

Seventeen bucks the lot but you should see the price of bloody limes at the moment :unsure: 

Newcastle Brown also uses 'syrup' and brewers sugar in the recipe so I might even use the syrup as a tryout for a comp I'm putting one in.


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## Thirsty Boy

sijani said:


> Has anyone used palm sugar in a stout or porter? Real palm sugar is dark brown, soft and crumbly. You should be able poke it with your fingernail and it will leave a mark. Avoid the pale stuff, it's coconut juice and cane sugar.
> 
> The real palm sugar (from Palmyra Palms) has an almost molasses taste with a strong smoky flavour (they reduce the palm tree sap over wood fires).
> 
> In south east Asian and parts of India they use the sugar to make Toddy. A distilled drink with a taste somewhere between whiskey and rum.
> 
> Would go nicely in a smoked stout :icon_drool2:




I used it in a Barleywine - absolutely lousy beer... but nothing to do with the palm sugar, the flavours it added were quite nice. I'm actually drinking one of them now, and after just about 2 years aging.. its starting to come good (ish) and goodish isn't worth a 2 year wait


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## manticle

I was looking for rice syrup in my local safeway for a tsing tao style lager. I couldn't find any so I ended up using rice water from two cups of rice in 5 L (boiled) and 500g rice flour (obviously along with some dextrose etc).


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## Bribie G

Bought 3 tubs today from a Chinese supermarket in the Valley for $2 per 500g tub  Haven't opened one as I'm not in interested in eating it. I'm putting in an order to Ross tonight, and have a go at a Solly Cerveza with it next week. 





Ingredients: rice, water, malt.

Just a wee point. 500g of this is actually more than 500ml because it's dense. Put it this way, home brew kits are labelled 1.7L but in the old days were labelled 1.2 kg which is what they are. So one of these tubs is almost the equivalent of half a tin of Coopers etc goop so I wouldn't want to put more than one tub in a brew for sure.


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## Fermented

For a cerveza?

To quote Sir Humphrey, that's "courageous". The fragrance and colour could lead to an interesting style...

I'm rather keen to know how it goes... this could be rather interesting. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Pollux

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.....


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## crundle

Reviving an old thread, but I was wondering what the rice malt syrup adds to the beer that rice alone doesn't - noting Bribie's Solly Cerveza recipe. I am keen to give the recipe a try during the week, but wasn't sure how important the syrup is.

cheers,

Crundle


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## phonos

Crundle,

the short answer is not much. It adds alcohol and a small amount of body, but no flavour.


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## crundle

Cheers,

In that case I will just give the rice alone a try with some Galaxy malt and see how it goes.

Crundle


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