# Copper Immersion Chillers



## manticle (6/1/10)

I've had a squizz through the wiki section, this section, searched in the forum and searched through google. I know there's a section in Palmer but it's brief.

I'm wondering if somewhere here is an illustrated guide to making a copper immersion chiller? I was going to make an offer on Brendo's but I like making stuff for my brewery (despite my spasticity) and if there is no such guide will post pictures and descriptions of whichever retarded way I end up doing it.

As far as I can work out I just need some coiled annealed copper, a small pot and some hose and clamp attachments to go from incoming to outgoing. Outgoing will somehow be directed to the garden (probably just collected in a vessel and transferred with pots.

Basic process seems to be bend copper around pot with two ends free of the main coil. I read something in palmer about tube benders to prevent kinks. Can anyone more trade minded than I tell me what that is so when I go shopping I look like less of a mong?

Cheers


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## gunbrew (6/1/10)

coiled annealed copper is the easy way to go.
I bought some recently from the hardware and it was just under $7 a metre.
It is very easy to bend around a pot to make an immersion chiller.

Regular copper pipe is much harder to bend and they had pipe benders for $30 there.
Hope that helps.


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## manticle (6/1/10)

gunbrew said:


> coiled annealed copper is the easy way to go.
> I bought some recently from the hardware and it was just under $7 a metre.
> It is very easy to bend around a pot to make an immersion chiller.
> 
> ...



So you had no trouble with kinking? When first designing a copper manifold I tried to bend one to shape using annealed copper (kink city and project abandoned in favour of cutting hard copper pipe and using tees and elbows) but I'm assuming round bends and using a template (ie the pot) should be easy enough? I don't want to spend money I don't have if I don't have to.

Cheers.


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## Kleiny (6/1/10)

Just get the coiled copper i think the big green shed has it in 10m lengths for a reasonable price or go see a local plumbing store.

Then just wind it around a cornie keg until you are happy with its position.
If you take your time it shouldnt kink.

Attach the ends either buy compression fittings or buy a small burner and some silver solder (lead free) and fix the fitting on. The burner solder and flux is sold at the big green shed as well and once you have made a couple of joins its easy.

Kleiny


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## Kleiny (6/1/10)

manticle said:


> So you had no trouble with kinking? When first designing a copper manifold I tried to bend one to shape using annealed copper (kink city and project abandoned in favour of cutting hard copper pipe and using tees and elbows) but I'm assuming round bends and using a template (ie the pot) should be easy enough? I don't want to spend money I don't have if I don't have to.
> 
> Cheers.



Depends on how tight you want the bend if you want it 90 degrees you are going to kink the pipe and are better of soldering in a 90 bend with the above mentioned equipment. But for the coil itself you are looking at a gentle bend which can be made with a little care.

Kleiny


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## Fourstar (6/1/10)

Kleiny said:


> Just get the coiled copper i think the big green shed has it in 10m lengths for a reasonable price or go see a local plumbing store.
> 
> Then just wind it around a cornie keg until you are happy with its position.
> If you take your time it shouldnt kink.



A good option is to crimp one end, fill with sand or water and crimp the other, when you wind it around you wont loose your shape. Faux Mandrel bending.


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## MitchDudarko (6/1/10)

Fourstar said:


> A good option is to crimp one end, fill with sand or water and crimp the other, when you wind it around you wont loose your shape. Faux Mandrel bending.



+1 I've done this onsite a few times, to get myself out of the sh*t, and prevent a 30min trip back to the workshop.


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## reVoxAHB (6/1/10)

I would be surprised if you could build one cheaper than you can purchase a second hand unit (assuming Brendos, etc. asking price is reasonable). 

Unless you have a pipe bender, flaring tool, copper in surplus (or the desire to build something custom to fit your rig) I'd run the numbers including adapters for garden hose (or whatever your supply will be) and make an offer on a pre-loved chiller. 

Also (with the dollar on high) consider a new unit from the US. Morebeer selection here. Yes, you'll have to tee up postage or arrange for a mate to bring it over, etc. but if this is doable, you could $ave a chunk. 

Finally, having used all manner of chillers over the years I highly recommend skipping immersion and go straight to plate, unless you are considering doing something like Jamil (which I've seen in action) and it's highly impressive. 

And speaking of coiling, have you seen the JagMatic?

reVox


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## gunbrew (6/1/10)

No trouble with kinking.
I wrapped it arround a keg.
Only bought 2.5 metres and bought some clear tubing to attach and a brass hose fitting as you can see in the pic.
Not sure what the ideal length of the copper pipe would be.
2.5 metres works, longer would probably make it more efficient but I was on a buget.




manticle said:


> So you had no trouble with kinking?
> Cheers.


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## absinthe (6/1/10)

Fourstar said:


> A good option is to crimp one end, fill with sand or water and crimp the other, when you wind it around you wont loose your shape. Faux Mandrel bending.


filling with salt is much easier as sand can get very hard to remove.. with salt just hook the hose up to it and leave it turned on till it ether blows out or dissolves it and then blows out..


but i have never had any probs winding a large coil like a chiller without filling or using a die. just buy the coil and use the inner most turn as the start and then twist the rest to match, just make sure you pull up the middle pipe for the inlet first.

the only time you really need to fill with salt etc is if you are winding tighter than 3 inches in diameter (although you do need a die)


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## manticle (6/1/10)

reVox said:


> I would be surprised if you could build one cheaper than you can purchase a second hand unit (assuming Brendos, etc. asking price is reasonable).
> 
> Unless you have a pipe bender, flaring tool, copper in surplus (or the desire to build something custom to fit your rig) I'd run the numbers including adapters for garden hose (or whatever your supply will be) and make an offer on a pre-loved chiller.
> 
> ...



It seems unlikely I'll need a pipe bender for annealed if others' experiences are anything to go by. The desire to build something to custom fit my rig and the challenge to make stuff when I'm not that naturally proficient at it is the main driving force. I know brendo would offer me a good price (in fact he already has). I'll make the decision over the next couple of days but I've so far managed to build my own copper manifold, fit it to my esky with t-piece and tap and transform a keg into a keggle and I'm spaz. The satisfaction of using those bits of homemade equipment is equal to making your own beer from scratch or growing your own hops. I know making a mill might be beyond my current skill level which is why I bought a cheap corona jobby from ebay (around $60 plus postage) but making a chiller doesn't seem outside manticle capabilities.

The process would no doubt be of interest to others who are putting together their rig too. If I can do it, anyone can.

So far I've done around 20 AG brews without a chiller (and only one was no-chill) - I have a bath full of ice juice/water bottles but I'd like to speed the process along and stop carrying 30 L of near boiling wort from my burner to my bath.

Jagmatic link is great. I don't have a jag though.


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## A3k (6/1/10)

Hi guys,
Sorry if this has been covered, i only did a quick skim of the thread as im working.

I have just made a immersion chiller. Annealed copper is extremely easy to bend, much more so than i expected. Just wrap it around a keg and youll be fine. Turn the keg upside down and tuck one end through a handle.

I got 3 lots of 3m copper. Not the best way to go, but was cheaper per meter than a long peice. From bunnings the first lot was $15 for the 3m, but i went back today and found the 3m for $10. I was a little pissed, but i grabbed another 3m to bring the chiller up to 12m.

I also learned how to braze copper for this, and was rather simple in the end. I just got a cheap burner, not an expensive one and it seemed to work fine.

Check out the link in this post. Helped me a fair bit
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=561990

Cheers Al.


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## manticle (6/1/10)

Great link thanks.


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## gava (13/1/10)

Im going to make a new Chiller in the coming weeks.. its going to have a whirlpool attached..

got the idea/instructions from 

http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/MyloFio...Jamil-O-Chiller

looks tops


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## gava (15/1/10)

Holy Ba-jebus.. brought the stuff for the above chiller lastnight from the big green shed (I had $70 of vouchers) $150 lighter (after vouchers) 

Had to buy all the copper burner , pipe cutter, solder though next time it'll be cheaper..


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## devo (15/1/10)

I've experimented with a 30 plate chiller and didn't like it. Have been extremely happy with the immersion chiller that I made from an 18m length of coiled copper back when I first started brewing. Copper is expensive but it is a one off expense and the resulting piece of gear is reliable and should last you a lifetime.


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## gava (15/1/10)

my current Immersion chiller is very slow.. it looks like it was made with about 9m of copper and just doesn't do the job.. thats why i've moved to the 18m copper with the whirlpool addon.. if it does what the guys in the forum claim it'll get to pitching temp after 20mins which is tops! at the moment its a nightmare..

edit:spelling


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## devo (15/1/10)

gava said:


> my current Immersion chiller is very slow.. it looks like it was made with about 9m of copper and just doesn't do the job.. thats why i've moved to the 18m copper with the whirlpool addon.. if it does what the guys in the forum claim it'll get to pitching temp after 20mins which is tops! at the moment its a nightmare..
> 
> edit:spelling



I think an expectation of getting wort chilled down in 20mins with an 18m coil may be a little unrealistic. With a 50lt batch it can take me anywhere between 45min to over an hour depending on the time of year to get the wort temp to pitching temp. NOTE my water source is a 5000lt water tank that recirculating from.


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## gava (15/1/10)

Are you whirlpooling? or just moving your chiller around..


Snip from website

"I tested it out today for the first time. From 212F down to 120F in 5 minutes. Another 5 minutes down to 75F, and five more minutes down to 60F. Fifteen minutes total.... frickin' sweet... "


edit:spelling



devo said:


> I think an expectation of getting wort chilled down in 20mins with an 18m coil may be a little unrealistic. With a 50lt batch it can take me anywhere between 45min to over an hour depending on the time of year to get the wort temp to pitching temp. NOTE my water source is a 5000lt water tank that recirculating from.


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## devo (15/1/10)

gava said:


> Are you whirlpooling? or just moving your chiller around..
> 
> 
> Snip from website
> ...



I do neither. Chiller sits in the wort undisturbed until desired temp has been reached.


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## gava (15/1/10)

from my experience leaving it just sit there will take the wort alot longer to reach pitching temp..

I'll make this baby and give you my rates of chill.. I'll be using a submersable pump with ice+salt bath..



devo said:


> I do neither. Chiller sits in the wort undisturbed until desired temp has been reached.


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## Peteoz77 (15/1/10)

In the winter (Tap Water is 10.5C) I can cool over 40 liters of wort down to 20 degrees in 18 minutes.

In the summer (Tap Water is 26C) it takes over 45 minutes and only gets down to 27. I usually stop around 30C and put it into a bathtub full of 18 degree water to get it down to pitching temp.

I stir it almost constantly both times, and it makes a WORLD of difference.


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## devo (15/1/10)

That's interesting on the effectiveness of stirring. I've never done it myself because I've always been on the opinion that the wort runs clearer into the fermenter if left undisturbed. I will have to give it a go next brew.


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## gava (15/1/10)

if you want clear wort, check out whirlpooling...


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## bcp (15/1/10)

Nice little how-to here:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-mak...for-homebrewing


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## gava (17/1/10)

well i coiled my new copper and put my old chiller next to it.. I think it might be a little better


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## gava (17/1/10)

Thought i'd give it a bash making my chiller today.. here are some happy snaps I took (sorry about pics from my phone)

First up is my "work bench" its fantastic! (little small) 






This is my first attempt at the top part.. I stuffed up the highest solder 
it failed the "water" test so I had to re-solder. (first time soldering copper)





resoldered the top and cut it down a bit to make it look a little better (past the water test, complete chiller without the whirlpool return)





The wort return (whirlpooling)





Placement of the return





and finally , picking up the wrong thing at the wrong time equals


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## davewaldo (17/1/10)

top job! Looks great!


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## Gout (17/1/10)

looking very nice there, i like the whirlpool attatchment - given me some ideas for my brewery thanks!

bad luck with the fingers - been there done that


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## gava (18/1/10)

Ok, its finished.. had a test and its working a treat! still have to clean with PWB or something.

I have used a brass connection on the wort return with a SS camlock connected.. not sure what the brass might do with the wort.. i've heard that it could be bad.. is this true?

chiller test with the whirlpool flow





Some bits that were in the whirlpool tube and shows its whirlpooling nice..





Sitting in the pot with water test - bit concerned if the whirlpool tube will be in the wort after boil - hopfully the size of the chiller will raise the wort level enough





Sitting in pot again





Finished unit with Camlock for the wort return and the other two for the water..


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## davewaldo (18/1/10)

Looks great Gava, I assume you would just run the whirlpool for the last 10mins of boil to sanitise?

As for the Brass, its not a problem if you pickle it as per John Palmers description here: How to Brew - Metals


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## alford_j (18/1/10)

Here is the best tutorial I have seen: 

I made this one based on the tutorial:




I found 6M lengths of annealed copper pipe half price at bunnings and joined 3 and a bit together to make a 19M coil for about $60. Good value.

Alf


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## gava (18/1/10)

Cheers... 

Yeah i'll whack it in the last 10mins to sanitise and start the whirlpooling a few mins before flame out.. 

no idea if thats what im supose to do but I'll give it a go 

Cheers for brass info..



davewaldo said:


> Looks great Gava, I assume you would just run the whirlpool for the last 10mins of boil to sanitise?
> 
> As for the Brass, its not a problem if you pickle it as per John Palmers description here: How to Brew - Metals


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## gava (18/1/10)

Oh thats a good idea!!!! hmm I got the 18m coil for $109 might have been better to check out joining.. well its done now 

can't wait to see how quick it cools it.

whats the time it takes yours to get to pitching temp?

the one i made is suppose to do boiling to 18c in 15mins or something insane..



Alfie said:


> Here is the best tutorial I have seen:
> 
> I made this one based on the tutorial:
> 
> ...


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## alford_j (18/1/10)

Gava,

I don't have a pump so mine is just a straight immersion chiller. Mine seems to be quite dependent on cooling water temp. This time of year tap water is around 24C so I can never cool it below that temp and it slows down a lot the closer I get. 

I haven't used mine in winter yet, but the performance should be much better. Mine will chill 30L to around 30C in around 40 minutes with cooling water of 24C in 30C ambient temp. Not spectacular but I'm keen to test it out in winter- say 15C cooling water and 18C ambient. 

You will have the same issue as mine but to a lesser degree- your cooling water has to be at or below pitching temp to get the beer that cold and it will be slow unless the cooling water is much colder than pitching temp. I don't think you will get to 18C in 15min unless your cooling water is say 12-14C. Some people have prechillers for chilling their cooling water but I haven't tried one.

The youtube video tutorial I linked above is really worth a watch for anyone else trying to make an IC.

Good luck with it.

Alf


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## gava (18/1/10)

my chiller water will be recirulated with a sub pump within a 100lt portable tank and will have large ice blocks with salt.. this should be very cold by the time I start pumping.. Hopfully I can chill the bajebus out of it.. 

I'll post the results when i get around to testing that..


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## alford_j (18/1/10)

gava said:


> my chiller water will be recirulated with a sub pump within a 100lt portable tank and will have large ice blocks with salt.



I think this will be the key to actually getting to pitching temp rather than just "much colder than boiling". What might be worth doing is using tap water for the first 2 min to remove most of the heat from the beer without heating your chilled water then start using your chilled water to drop it down quickly to pitching temp. The difference between the cooling water and the beer will be the biggest factor with your chiller- 24C tap water with 98C beer will chill quickly then use 5C chilled water with 40C beer. 

I might have a look at getting a chilled cooling water tank and pump as it would improve cooling time and use less water. Le me know your results.

Alf


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## katzke (19/1/10)

To answer the question on the tubing bender the easy way is to use the one that looks like a spring. One end has what looks like a cone on it. You need the correct size for the tubing. Anyplace that sells the tubing should have them for a few bucks. If not a good hardware store should have them. No need to solder fittings. I just use vinyl hose and clamps with a hose adapter on one end.

If I were going to solder I would make a counter flow chiller instead of a coil chiller. Not as great as a plate chiller but they have the advantage of being less likely to clog up. They use less water and copper then a coil chiller but require more skill to make. They can also be made with just vinyl hose, copper tube, and fittings with no soldering.


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## gava (19/1/10)

I was thinking of doing a counterflow chiller until I did some research.

A good write up is the follow link : http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

Im sure the both have their good points and people will prefer different things.. but I thought the immersion chiller will be the way i go with a whirlpool attachment.



katzke said:


> To answer the question on the tubing bender the easy way is to use the one that looks like a spring. One end has what looks like a cone on it. You need the correct size for the tubing. Anyplace that sells the tubing should have them for a few bucks. If not a good hardware store should have them. No need to solder fittings. I just use vinyl hose and clamps with a hose adapter on one end.
> 
> If I were going to solder I would make a counter flow chiller instead of a coil chiller. Not as great as a plate chiller but they have the advantage of being less likely to clog up. They use less water and copper then a coil chiller but require more skill to make. They can also be made with just vinyl hose, copper tube, and fittings with no soldering.


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## reVoxAHB (19/1/10)

devo said:


> I've experimented with a 30 plate chiller and didn't like it.



What didn't you like about it? Curious, I guess. 

And Manticle, I do have a copper bending tool (if you want to do 90 bends without the need for elbows) like this: 




and flaring tool which you are welcome to borrow or drop by my place for a beer and finish the chiller over here, if you go diy. I'm inner city melbs.

Cheers
reVox


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## katzke (19/1/10)

gava said:


> I was thinking of doing a counterflow chiller until I did some research.
> 
> A good write up is the follow link : http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php
> 
> Im sure the both have their good points and people will prefer different things.. but I thought the immersion chiller will be the way i go with a whirlpool attachment.



I guess it all depends on what equipment you have. Your system requires a pump. To skip the whirlpool you need a good screen. A counter flow with out a pump requires enough height of the brew kettle to get gravity flow into the fermentor.

So no pump, a good screen, and a counter flow chiller gives pitchable wort in as long as it takes to drain the kettle. That is fast enough for most people.

With a pump and no screen the coil chiller may work great. Question is if you have a pump and no screen, dont you have to worry about clogging the pump?

I also question the time results in the link you posted. Maybe if they have very cold water then they can get a fast chill to 100F. I find it takes a bit longer with my smaller chiller. The big problem comes with the drop from 100F to pitching temps. That is not a problem with a plate or counter flow chiller from any that I have seen used. The wort comes out at pitching temps and they are done before I get down to 100F.

Just pointing out the differences in each system.

The Chillzilla is one heck of a counter flow chiller. Not prone to permanent plug ups like a plate chiller and easier to clean. Not cheap though.


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## manticle (19/1/10)

reVox said:


> What didn't you like about it? Curious, I guess.
> 
> And Manticle, I do have a copper bending tool (if you want to do 90 bends without the need for elbows) like this:
> 
> ...



That sounds great. I may very well take you up on that offer. It will be a couple of weeks before I get all the bits together but i'll keep it in mind. Much appreciated.


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## gava (19/1/10)

I have not used my pump in a brewday its a new addition to my rig.. Ill be investing in a BB screen soon enough to stop the flowers. but I believe it has not problem with pellets.. 

in any case it'll sh#t on my old chiller  we'll see how it goes.. 



katzke said:


> With a pump and no screen the coil chiller may work great. Question is if you have a pump and no screen, don't you have to worry about clogging the pump?


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## manticle (19/1/10)

Yours is looking great Gava. Thanks for the photos etc - i think I'll be finding those very useful.


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## komodo (19/1/10)

Any one ever tried to build a combination immersion/counterflow chiller?
Ie tube in tube design counter flow but run the wort through the inner tube and the water through the outter tube and immerse the whole chiller into the kettle


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## yardy (19/1/10)

Alfie said:


> View attachment 34932



nice work Alfie, do you have a pic of the inside (the return)

cheers

Dave

this is my next project B)


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## katzke (20/1/10)

Komodo said:


> Any one ever tried to build a combination immersion/counterflow chiller?
> Ie tube in tube design counter flow but run the wort through the inner tube and the water through the outter tube and immerse the whole chiller into the kettle



That is the way all the counter flow chillers I have seen are built. Water on the outside. So I guess you could but a counter flow chiller is so short I am not sure you would get any advantage. Plus you introduce one more thing into the wort that needs to be cleaned first and after.

A good counter flow chiller will chill boiling wort to pitching temp in one pass at a normal flow. Depending on how cold the water is it can chill to low. I have seen that happen. The fix is to slow the water down as the wort is at full speed anyway.


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## komodo (20/1/10)

Fair enough.

Might give it a go at building one.
or maybe I'll save my pennies and buy a chillzilla


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## alford_j (20/1/10)

yardy said:


> nice work Alfie, do you have a pic of the inside (the return)
> 
> cheers
> 
> ...



Yardy,

mine is a plain old immersion chiller- not a whirlpool immersion chiller so no wort return (if I understand the question). I followed  tutorial and it was helpful. I also made a counterflow chiller but only used about 5M of 1/2 inch tube and it wasn't very effective- also much harder to make.

Good luck with it,

Alfie


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## Pumpy (20/1/10)

Mmmmmmmmmm i remember now how do you use those copper wort chillers


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## gava (20/1/10)

I have the wort return for whirlpool attached to my chiller... 

the picture shows the return here.






the work return from the march pump connects to the Stainless Steel camlock..






yardy said:


> nice work Alfie, do you have a pic of the inside (the return)
> 
> cheers
> 
> ...


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## br33zy (22/1/10)

Good thread Manticle, good luck with your project.

I found this post today on a 'ribcage immersion chiller' - it's a beaut: http://lostinfermentation.com/2009/09/01/r...ersion-chiller/

Cheers

Breezy


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## jonw (1/11/10)

I just bought an 18m roll of tube from Bunnings ($99) to make one of these. Do you have to degrease the tube (or anything else) as suggested at the end of that youtube video before you use it?

Cheers,

Jon


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## manticle (1/11/10)

Update from me even though it doesn't answer the above question;

Despite the temptaion to make stuff just for kicks, the amount of water used by immersion chillers balanced against the ease and efficacy of no-chill means I've not yet attempted this and maybe never will. Definitely making a new tun and fermentation/bottle cellar cabinet before I make a chiller. No chill is pretty damn impressive (except for the botulism which has permanently disfigured me).


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## sim (24/2/11)

reVox said:


> What didn't you like about it? Curious, I guess.
> 
> And Manticle, I do have a copper bending tool (if you want to do 90 bends without the need for elbows) like this:
> 
> ...



Anyone know if a bending tool like this be fine on annealed copper tube (the coiled stuff) rather than straight tube? work the same?


cheers,
sim


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## RobboMC (24/2/11)

sim said:


> Anyone know if a bending tool like this be fine on annealed copper tube (the coiled stuff) rather than straight tube? work the same?
> 
> 
> cheers,
> sim



Annealed copper tube tends to be a bit like soft spagetti when you try and handle it, that's why most plumbers don't use it. Would be nice if they made the drawn stuff in a coil already but I don't think they do. A bending device like this will easily bend annealed tube, as it's softer than the straight lengths; but on a practal level it's much more difficult to handle. The grips of the bender are also likely to dig into the wall of the soft tube and leave ugly scratch marks. You would also need to be careful not to collapse the soft tube with the grips.


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## sim (24/2/11)

RobboMC said:


> The grips of the bender are also likely to dig into the wall of the soft tube and leave ugly scratch marks. You would also need to be careful not to collapse the soft tube with the grips.



Thanks Robbo. i dont mind the scratch marks, but im abit worried about squashing it into a crimp. il give it a go though.


cheers,
sim


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