# Adding Wood (oak) Chips



## Yeastie Beastie (2/10/09)

When is the best time to add wood chips to your brew?

What is the best method? I have read about pre soaking in alcohol, boiling etc etc.

I am looking to use French Oak Chips for my next brew but want to keep it simple.


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## JonnyAnchovy (2/10/09)

this is relevent to me. I'm planning on starting a series of brett experiments over the next few brews - after fermentation has finished I'm planning on taking about 5L and adding brett and oak just to see what happens. I'm not at the stage where I want to start making full batched of funky beer, but I think this is probably a good way to start playing....


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## Maple (2/10/09)

I've done it a few times. With my RIS, i waited for the initial ferment to finish off, and racked onto the oak, left it for 3 weeks, then bottled. With the Oud Bruin I have going now, the oak went in with the Rosaelaer (sp) and other funk.

With the RIS chips, I stuck them in some water in a dish and mircowared them for a few minutes, then added the lot into the fermenter. With the funky one, I just took the oak as it was and soaked it in single malt for 24 hrs then dropped em in. didn't really worry about introducing wierd bacteria in that one....


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## mikem108 (2/10/09)

Have a listen to this
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Bre...5-08-Wood-Aging

Covers it pretty comprehensively including wood chips


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## AndrewQLD (2/10/09)

My Belgian Toasted Golden Ale from the QABC was fermented as normal then racked onto the Oak chips that had been soaked in near boiling water for 15 minutes or so.
I used 60g toasted french oak chips and left the beer on them for around 30 days, tasting every 7 days until I thought the oak was right.
There are no set rules to amounts or time on the oak as it varies greatly, just taste until it's right.

sadly I only have one bottle left of this lovely beer.

Andrew


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## Screwtop (2/10/09)

Have never done this, but have tasted AndrewQLD's :blush:
You could try contacting Ron Feruglio of Temple Brewing Co, his oaked Belgian was by far THE best beer I have ever tasted. Seemed like a passionate brewer and nice guy, why not ask him for some pointers.

Screwy


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## Yeastie Beastie (2/10/09)

mikem108 said:


> Have a listen to this
> http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Bre...5-08-Wood-Aging
> 
> Covers it pretty comprehensively including wood chips




Quite an informative listen. Thanks.


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## geoffd (26/5/10)

Does anyone see any issues in sterilising the woodchips, by adding to the last 10 mins of the boil, would it extract any unwanted resinous flavours?

I have available a choice of french oak chips or burbon american oak chips to use in a pale 5 to 7% scotch ale. I have some Scotch (Chivas) or Peated Irish (Connemara) that I could soak the french chips in to sanitise. But see it pointless to soak the burbon chips in non burbon whiskey, & no i dont want to buy a bottle of burbon.

I'm looking primarily for vanilla hints from the oak, so my tendency is toward the french oak.


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## drsmurto (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> Does anyone see any issues in sterilising the woodchips, by adding to the last 10 mins of the boil, would it extract any unwanted resinous flavours?
> 
> I have available a choice of french oak chips or burbon american oak chips to use in a pale 5 to 7% scotch ale. I have some Scotch (Chivas) or Peated Irish (Connemara) that I could soak the french chips in to sanitise. But see it pointless to soak the burbon chips in non burbon whiskey, & no i dont want to buy a bottle of burbon.
> 
> I'm looking primarily for vanilla hints from the oak, so my tendency is toward the french oak.



You could add them to the mashtun.......


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## petesbrew (26/5/10)

I did a Medieval Honey Chamomile Amber Ale a year ago from a brewcellar catalog.
Recipe called for french oak, but all I could find was american.

I tell you it was just weird & kinda wrong. Honey, Chamomile, and Bourbon flavours do not mix.
I found a couple of tallies left over so if anyone wants to try it you're MORE than welcome.

EDIT: forgot to mention, I added them about 15min before the end of the boil.


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## manticle (26/5/10)

@Father Jack:

Both times I have used them I have soaked them in spirits covered in the fridge for a week.

Both times French Oak, first time a single malt scotch, the second Jack Daniels. Both beers are sour beers and are ageing so no results to speak of yet. However like you I didn't want to buy a whole botttle of bourbon (not a bourbon whisky drinker) so I just used a cocktail 50 mL size bottle.


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## geoffd (26/5/10)

lol Petesbrew, Chamomile tastes bloody awful, though it is good for both your nervous system & antibacterial & antifungal, chamomile tea is very good for your veggie patch as is growing it near any plant, 

It's about the last herb I'd consider tainting a beer with.

As for Mash Tun, it would kill some germs, but not exactly sanitised even at mashout of 77deg, as many spores would easily survive IMO


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## drsmurto (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> As for Mash Tun, it would kill some germs, but not exactly sanitised even at mashout of 77deg, as many spores would easily survive IMO



What comes after the mash tun FJ?


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## geoffd (26/5/10)

DrSmurto said:


> What comes after the mash tun FJ?



lol DrSmurto
What comes after the mash?.... a well deserved beer of course :chug: ....while the boil is rolling.

You're missing the point, I'm sanitising so I can add chips to the fermenter, so I'm back at my original question, would adding the chips to the last 10mins of the boil to sanitize them risk extracting unwanted flavours, such as wood resins? Adding chips to mash and/or boil only would probably not be sufficient to impart the desired flavours.
The intention is to have the chips in fermentation, & possibly racking the ale onto fresh chips for a further month. It looks like soaking the french oak in whiskey to sanitise is the safest way to go. I'm just worried I might get too much whiskey flavour rather than the oak & vanilla only.


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## Frank (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> I'm looking primarily for vanilla hints from the oak, so my tendency is toward the french oak.


You will get more Vanilla from American Oak, but it can become harsh if you over do it, French Oak is lighter.


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## drsmurto (26/5/10)

Wasn't missing the point, just adding an alternate method. :icon_cheers: 

As for whether the flavour would come through, the reason i piped up was that ion Sunday we had a big brewday with 4 blokes brewing Russian Imperial Stouts.

Boston added oak to the mashtun and despite the fact this is a huge roasty beer you could taste the woody character in the wort after the boil. 

So it does come through but i agree that for maximum impact you should be adding it to the fermenter which is what i will be doing. After boiling for 10-15 mins so doing that in the boiling wort would do the job.


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## Asher (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> You're missing the point, I'm sanitising so I can add chips to the fermenter, so I'm back at my original question, would adding the chips to the last 10mins of the boil to sanitize them risk extracting unwanted flavours, such as wood resins?



A well documented and used method of sanitising oak chips is to steep in boiling water and add the chips liquid and all to the ferment.
So adding chips to the boil will work for sanitising (in a bag or something that can be then transferred to fermenter without hot break or hops

My understanding is: People tend to rack to a secondary and add oak then for a couple of reasons. You can taste periodically to see how oak flavour is developing and rack off when that flavour is achieved.
If oaking in the primary you may miss the mark flavour wise as the beer hasn't finished fermenting when your trying to taste for oak. Plus you have the issue of removing the oak part way through meaning you'll need to hang a bag or something.

When I add oak I add it to the primary (Its easier and generally I'm not looking for a subtle oaking). I wait until after the primary yeast growth phase & just drop it in unsanitised and unbagged. 1-2 g per litre of wort. Taste at end of primary and keg when happy with flavour. Conditioning done off the oak in serving kegs.


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## geoffd (26/5/10)

Sorry DrSmurto, I realise my wording might seem like I was disregarding your imput, which I didnt intend.

Are you able to distinguish if particular elements were drawn from this method, i.e more oaky, more vanilla, any resins or harsh flavours from the method.
Thanks


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## Screwtop (26/5/10)

Post fermentation IMO, wouldn't want fermentation removing any character imparted by the oak. Certainly would not boil.

Screwy


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## drsmurto (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> Sorry DrSmurto, I realise my wording might seem like I was disregarding your imput, which I didnt intend.
> 
> Are you able to distinguish if particular elements were drawn from this method, i.e more oaky, more vanilla, any resins or harsh flavours from the method.
> Thanks



Hard to say as this was an OG 1.090 stout with >15% roasted grains. :lol: 

What i could taste was a woody flavour, almost earthy.


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## Frank (26/5/10)

The high sugar levels would also be masking some of the oak that it did pick up at initial tasting. I plan on leaving in Primary for 2 weeks and then rack into keg to finish the last couple of points. I have American and French Oak staves at the moment, so I think I will put one in each keg and see how the flavours progress. It was French oak chips at approx 10g/ kg grist (5g/L wort) or close to.


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## kirem (26/5/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Hard to say as this was an OG 1.090 stout with >15% roasted grains. :lol:
> 
> What i could taste was a woody flavour, almost earthy.



is it up to the high standards set by other oaked RIS that you may or may not have tasted?

I have done a bit with oak. and in my humble opinion I would try all the methods listed in this thread, they will all have their own characteristics and work out what you like from there.
There is an awful lot more to oak than the species (french/american) there are toasting levels, different forests give different characters etc etc. then there are different physical oak shapes. Like chips, staves, barrels. A lot of chips are very substandard in my opinion. The main problem is that a chip has many little splinters of oak that when toasted/roasted, develop a lot quicker than other parts of the chip and end up burnt. This burnt flavour then finds its way into the beer. A trick to remove some of this is to put the chips into something that you can shake or throw around and will knock all the loose oak off the chip and then throw the dust out and just use the chips. The better oak alternative producers ensure the product doesn't have these burnt bits of oak in their product.

I haven't tried addition to the mashtun, but I like the idea.
Kettle I have tried and it extracts too much oak tannin (oak harshness) for me
Primary fermentation - I have settled on adding about 1-2g/L in the fermentation - I think it helps intergrate the oak better into the flavour profile rather than having a beer with an oak flavour on top of it
Secondary and or keg - If I get enough oak from the primary fermentation I skip this oak addition, otherwise I add oak at 2-4g/L and remove the beer from oak if I think the oak is getting dominant.

and of course it comes down to what you are trying to achieve;
An oak dominant beer
A beer that is balanced with oak still detectable
or A beer that has complexing flavour from oak but it is not obvious that the complexity is from oak.

Another point is that the oak characteristic of a beer becomes more obvious for a while longer after it has been taken off oak. it is easy to add more oak, not so easy to take too much oak out.

hope some of this helps


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## Frank (26/5/10)

kirem said:


> I have done a bit with oak. and in my humble opinion I would try all the methods listed in this thread, they will all have their own characteristics and work out what you like from there.
> There is an awful lot more to oak than the species (french/american) there are toasting levels, different forests give different characters etc etc. then there are different physical oak shapes. Like chips, staves, barrels.


Kirem, I currently have the following small staves:
evOAK Latitude 44 Bordeaux
evOAK Latitude 45 Rhone
evOAK American Cuvee No1
All medium toast. The chips I used were Heinrich French medium roast as well.
What are your thoughts for a RIS?


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## geoffd (26/5/10)

Cheers folks, you've all been extremely helpful.
Kirem, I'm glad you were able to confirm my suspicion on the risk of harsh flavours from boiling the oak chips. I think I'll go fermenter, & pre soak in the smoothest whisk(e)y I have. I'm gonna be drinking one oaky whisk(e)y , I have a hip flask so as not to flavour the whole bottle. Think I'll have just as much fun with the spirit as I will with the beer. I wont be doing it for a couple of months, It's lager season now :icon_cheers: 
kicking off with a marzen.


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## kirem (26/5/10)

Boston said:


> Kirem, I currently have the following small staves:
> evOAK Latitude 44 Bordeaux
> evOAK Latitude 45 Rhone
> evOAK American Cuvee No1
> ...



firstly viticulturalists and oak don't really mix! Once again I prove my point, that viticulturalists really want to be winemakers. You are aware that oak staves don't need pruning and you will have to get out of the tractor to add them to the beer! 

funnily enough I use evoak mocha chips, I am a big fan of the Heinrich French as well. Judging by your oaks you have probably crossed paths with the EvOak rep that happens to be a very good mate of mine, he also lives close to DrSmurto but isn't a viticulturalist and doesn't drive a range rover, so maybe you don't acknowledge him.

The Bordeaux and Rhone I have only tasted in samples at a seminar and unfortunately I can't remember which one I liked (if any).

I have also tried EvOak high toast and this is a really good oak, if you see the rep ask him for some or let me know and I will get some for you.

I think the toastier oak that display mocha type characters are good for RIS, they worked for me.



Father Jack said:


> Cheers folks, you've all been extremely helpful.
> Kirem, I'm glad you were able to confirm my suspicion on the risk of harsh flavours from boiling the oak chips. I think I'll go fermenter, & pre soak in the smoothest whisk(e)y I have. I'm gonna be drinking one oaky whisk(e)y , I have a hip flask so as not to flavour the whole bottle. Think I'll have just as much fun with the spirit as I will with the beer. I wont be doing it for a couple of months, It's lager season now :icon_cheers:
> kicking off with a marzen.



I do what Asher suggested, just put them in a coffee mug add boiling water, wait for 2-3 minutes then tip the whole lot into the fermenter

If you also want a flavour from the spirt that has been in contact with the oak ie bourbon/whisk(e)y etc, I would grab 4-6x 50mL samples and add an increasing measured amount of the spirit of choice to the glasses and find the level that you like in the glass. If you are new to trialling for flavour and balance in this method, find the spirit concentration you like, go away for a while, have a beer or something else, preferably not the spirit of choice, then come back to the trials and confirm the concentration you like. Then do the math and add that concentration to the beer - probably in the keg otherwise you are wasting spirit.


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## Effect (26/5/10)

kirem said:


> firstly viticulturalists and oak don't really mix! Once again I prove my point, that viticulturalists really want to be winemakers. You are aware that oak staves don't need pruning and you will have to get out of the tractor to add them to the beer!
> 
> Judging by your oaks you have probably crossed paths with the EvOak rep that happens to be a very good mate of mine, he also lives close to DrSmurto but isn't a viticulturalist and doesn't drive a range rover, so maybe you don't acknowledge him.




:lol:


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## manticle (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> I think I'll go fermenter, & pre soak in the smoothest whisk(e)y I have. I'm gonna be drinking one oaky whisk(e)y , I have a hip flask so as not to flavour the whole bottle. Think I'll have just as much fun with the spirit as I will with the beer.



When I did mine I took the chips out and added them to the fermenter and drank the whisky. The single malt (can't remember which one I used - maybe glen moray?) was much darker and very oaky - along the lines of macallan but stronger flavoured. It was delicious and worth an experiment in future.

The JD tasted like oaked JD but I wasn't expecting much.


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## WSC (26/5/10)

Boston said:


> Kirem, I currently have the following small staves:
> evOAK Latitude 44 Bordeaux
> evOAK Latitude 45 Rhone
> evOAK American Cuvee No1
> ...



Where do you get the different oaks from? I have only ever seen American and French in LHBS.


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/5/10)

Father Jack said:


> Does anyone see any issues in sterilising the woodchips, by adding to the last 10 mins of the boil, would it extract any unwanted resinous flavours?
> 
> I have available a choice of french oak chips or burbon american oak chips to use in a pale 5 to 7% scotch ale. I have some Scotch (Chivas) or Peated Irish (Connemara) that I could soak the french chips in to sanitise. But see it pointless to soak the burbon chips in non burbon whiskey, & no i dont want to buy a bottle of burbon.
> 
> I'm looking primarily for vanilla hints from the oak, so my tendency is toward the french oak.




Might seem like a silly suggestion but why not put the chips straight into primary? Its something that's done on a regular basis at crushing time during vintage>

BYB


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## Frank (26/5/10)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Might seem like a silly suggestion but why not put the chips straight into primary? Its something that's done on a regular basis at crushing time during vintage>
> 
> BYB


Wine is more forgiving due to the higher alcohol level, you would probably be safe with a RIS, but maybe not lower alcohol beers. I am planning on dropping my stave straight into the keg. 
All my oak was purchased straight from an Oak Supplier to the wine industry, the main reason for the buy was for our shed wine but asked for a bit more for the beer.


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/5/10)

Boston said:


> Wine is more forgiving due to the higher alcohol level, you would probably be safe with a RIS, but maybe not lower alcohol beers. I am planning on dropping my stave straight into the keg.
> All my oak was purchased straight from an Oak Supplier to the wine industry, the main reason for the buy was for our shed wine but asked for a bit more for the beer.




Should of yelled out...... quietly


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## fraser_john (27/5/10)

Kentucky Bourbon Ale

Instead of adding bourbon to boil I soaked american oak chips in bourbon for 20 minutes and added directly to fermenter after first day. Racked off primary as soon as fermentation was completed.

Turned out a wonderful beer. Definitely on my to brew again list, possibly for VicBrew in the specialty class. Need to pay more attention to my bottling sanitation though, really screwed up in the British Ales Comp. Hate bottling, but it's early and I am already digressing 

Possible changes I would make would be to blast the chips with a propane torch to toast them, then toss in a bag to remove burnt bits. Possibly reducing the amount by 10%.


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## WSC (27/5/10)

Boston said:


> Wine is more forgiving due to the higher alcohol level, you would probably be safe with a RIS, but maybe not lower alcohol beers. I am planning on dropping my stave straight into the keg.
> All my oak was purchased straight from an Oak Supplier to the wine industry, the main reason for the buy was for our shed wine but asked for a bit more for the beer.



Do these 'oak suppliers' supply direct to the public?


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## Frank (27/5/10)

WSC said:


> Do these 'oak suppliers' supply direct to the public?


I work in the wine Industry, but the purchase was for personal use for approx 1000L of wine. A quick net search should find a rep in your local area, a quick phone call and you should find out.


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## Frank (27/5/10)

kirem said:


> firstly viticulturalists and oak don't really mix! Once again I prove my point, that viticulturalists really want to be winemakers. You are aware that oak staves don't need pruning and you will have to get out of the tractor to add them to the beer!
> 
> funnily enough I use evoak mocha chips, I am a big fan of the Heinrich French as well. Judging by your oaks you have probably crossed paths with the EvOak rep that happens to be a very good mate of mine, he also lives close to DrSmurto but isn't a viticulturalist and doesn't drive a range rover, so maybe you don't acknowledge him.
> 
> ...


Well I think I will just go with one of the French and one American in 2 kegs and do a taste test and see if I can pick the difference (with my uneducated vineyard palate).

So did you actually see any grapes this vintage or did they just arrive in trucks and you got the cellar hands to run a sample up to the lab for you once they were fermented?
By the way, how did your attempt at planting a vineyard this year go? not as easy as it sounded..


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## Yob (11/8/14)

2 questions, 

1. how much oak chips? is it like a dry hopping thing where more weight = less time?

2. do they need to be submerged or floating is OK?


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## manticle (11/8/14)

Floating is OK in my experience (although I've not tried submersion).

How much is totally dependent on oak type, toast level, desired result etc. Look at Kirem's post (#22) above. Less is more in my experience though unless you like licking barrels. With subtle oaking you can get elements of chocolate, vanilla etc. Too much and it's just tannin and twig city.


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## Yob (11/8/14)

great, missed that post somehow, more than enough to get me started.

Ta Manticle.

:beerdrink:


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## AndrewQLD (11/8/14)

I brew an Oaked Strong Belgian Golden Ale @ 9% that went well at the QABC, 60g toasted oak chips for 30 days, tasted this each week while on the chips until I liked the flavour.
Different beer styles will yield different results as will the amount of attenuation and the ABV.


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## beersom (11/8/14)

AndrewQLD said:


> I brew an Oaked Strong Belgian Golden Ale @ 9% that went well at the QABC,


I still think about that beer.


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## GrumpyPaul (11/8/14)

Yob said:


> 2 questions,
> 
> 1. how much oak chips? is it like a dry hopping thing where more weight = less time?
> 
> 2. do they need to be submerged or floating is OK?


Try my swap beer that had 1g per litre of oak chips.... then if your going to the club dinner try the beer brewed for MB club dinner - same recipe with 2g per litre.

It was supposed to be an experiment on my part to see if twice the Oak = half the amount of time.

Problem is I am shit a keeping records.

I know the first one (swap beer) sat on Oak for 3 weeks. The second one I lost track of time - I think it went close to 3 weeks also.

Regardless if time I just tasted it every few days until I was happy it was "just a bit more" oaky that I wanted. (on the basis it would mellow with age)

I did mine into a corny with the oak in it - so I could seal it all up with CO2 and it would matter how long I left it.

Second time I did it I put the oak in a small hop bag an hung it in the corny with a bit of dental floss - that way it was easy to remove the Oak when ready.


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## AndrewQLD (11/8/14)

beersom said:


> I still think about that beer.


Thanks beersom I have an 18 mth old bottle left of the last generation of that beer using the MJ Belgian yeast and it's beautiful, pm me your address and I'll send it down.


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## manticle (11/8/14)

Did I get the same one when I won the xmas lotto Andrew? Great beer if so.


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## AndrewQLD (11/8/14)

Yes, I think that might have been the first brew I did manticle.


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## Adr_0 (11/8/14)

as I have managed to survive my rock star 20's, I was given a 10L cask for my bday over the weekend.

I was going to keep it under the house and fill it with port/red wine, but my wife is a big fan of Innis and Gunn and an oaked Belgian sounds incredible.

am I better off using this for port and throw some chips into the fermenter? has anyone conditioned a beer in a cask before?


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## barls (11/8/14)

not sure i posted this before. but heres some info on oak aging
View attachment poster iufost final.pdf


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## mr_wibble (12/8/14)

Father Jack said:


> lol Petesbrew, Chamomile tastes bloody awful, though it is good for both your nervous system & antibacterial & antifungal, chamomile tea is very good for your veggie patch as is growing it near any plant,
> 
> It's about the last herb I'd consider tainting a beer with.


I humbly disagree.

It goes rather well in a wheat beer, providing complex, but moderate floral, honey-like aromas.

I used fresh-dried flower heads from my mother-in-law's garden. Dried them myself, then froze until ready.

Perhaps using chamomile _tea_ (which seems to be mostly leaves, *ugh*), is the problem ?


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## AndrewQLD (12/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> as I have managed to survive my rock star 20's, I was given a 10L cask for my bday over the weekend.
> 
> I was going to keep it under the house and fill it with port/red wine, but my wife is a big fan of Innis and Gunn and an oaked Belgian sounds incredible.
> 
> am I better off using this for port and throw some chips into the fermenter? has anyone conditioned a beer in a cask before?


I believe Ross from Bacchus Brewing has been dabbling in barrel aged beers.


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## Yob (12/8/14)

Matt from Boatrocker has a fantastic Whiskey aged +%10 stout

Linky + Crafty Pint Review


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