# Fermentis dry yeast now 15 grams (up from 11.5 grams)



## Feldon (6/3/15)

Noticed while browsing the Keg King site that the Fermentis range of dry yeast is now 15g per sachet, up from 11.5g.

http://kegking.com.au/yeast/fermentis-safale-us-05-yeast-15g.html





Not sure whether the increase in quantity is exclusive to Keg King (eg. a special promotion offer?).

But if this is a permanent change I was wondering why.

Some possibilities that come to mind :

- a tendency for homebrewers to make higher gravity worts (eg. IPA, RIS) that 11.5g might struggle to ferment?

- realisation that the old 11.5g was insufficient to ferment even a standard batch?

- a change in the viability of the yeast because of the effects of transport and handling?

- realisation that the instructions saying to sprinkle the yeast into the wort (rather than rehydrate as per Danstar instructions) results in a loss of viable yeast?

(if there's another thread covering this topic could Mods merge or delete this one - couldn't find anything in a search)


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## DU99 (6/3/15)

Any dearer for the new size packet


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## Feldon (6/3/15)

DU99 said:


> Any dearer for the new size packet


Keg King's price for 15g of US05 is $5.95.

Not sure if this this is more than they charged previously for the old 11.5g sachet.


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## Lecterfan (6/3/15)

Interesting! I wonder also if there is the banal possibility that it is simple 'bang for buck' marketing given that compared to even a few short years ago there are many more dry yeast options available to the home brewer?


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## takai (6/3/15)

I think it is just how they subdivide. They tend to get it in 250g bricks and then vac seal it themselves in smaller packages with their own label.


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## Florian (6/3/15)

Lecterfan said:


> Interesting! I wonder also if there is the banal possibility that it is simple 'bang for buck' marketing given that compared to even a few short years ago there are many more dry yeast options available to the home brewer?


An indication for that would be if they have made the actual sachet bigger in size, as I reckon you could easily fit another 30% into the standard packs.

Either way I think it's a good thing, preferably for the same price.


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## takai (6/3/15)

KegKing dont sell the standard packs though. When you get Fermentis from KK you get packs like this:





I appreciate getting the 15g packs, as most of my ales tend to be a bit bigger, and so the extra cell count helps if you are just rehydrating rather than making a starter.


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## Matplat (6/3/15)

Brew Cellar also re-package Fermentis yeasts into 15g packs....

good to know there is another source though...


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## Florian (6/3/15)

That's pretty poor form from KK then to say the least.

If they repackage they should say so and not add a picture that looks like it's an original package from the manufacturer.

I don't generally like using that term but that's false advertising and I'd be requesting a refund if I had ordered that.


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## technobabble66 (6/3/15)

Hey florian. 
I'd also be quick to condemn false marketing, but to be fair KK have just thrown their logo into the bottom of the label. It still says Safale S-04. A second or 2 on Google and it'd be obvious it's from Fermentis and KK have on-sold it. (& in better sized packs). 
I'd actually say they're better than a few others out there (Brewcellar?) who do the same and definitely claim it as their own, with no mention of the original product name or manufacturer. 
I'd say anyone who cares would realize very quickly it's repackaged, and anyone who doesn't care doesn't ..um .. care.


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## Florian (6/3/15)

technobabble66 said:


> Hey florian.
> I'd also be quick to condemn false marketing, but to be fair KK have just thrown their logo into the bottom of the label. It still says Safale S-04. A second or 2 on Google and it'd be obvious it's from Fermentis and KK have on-sold it. (& in better sized packs).
> I'd actually say they're better than a few others out there (Brewcellar?) who do the same and definitely claim it as their own.
> I'd say anyone who cares would realize very quickly it's repackaged, and anyone who doesn't care doesn't ..um .. care.


I'm not talking about the photo of the actual package that takai posted, I mean the photo on the KK website that Feldon also posted in his first post.
It looks like it's an original Fermentis package with a yellow sticker or print on top which suggests the larger size.

My concern is the repackaging bit. Obviously yeast that has been repackaged is not guaranteed to come in the state it was packed at the manufacturers premises. There is a risk of contamination at the repackaging facility (eg Keg King). I have never seen their processes so I wouldn't want to risk a batch of beer *unless* I'm prepared to do so from the beginning (by knowing that it is repackaged *before* I purchase).

I have used repackaged yeast from Craftbrewer many times, but that is because I have been there many times and trusted their process.

If it is repackaged it needs to be either stated in writing or be pretty obvious from the product photo.

In this case it is not, and therefore I'm still happy to use the term in question.


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## Feldon (6/3/15)

If Keg King do not have for sale 15g sachets of Fermentis yeast packaged by the maker and as shown on their website then they are in flagrant breach of the Trade Practices Act.

Products offered for sale in Australia _must _be as advertised, and you can not 'pass off' one product in place of another.

I would also think that the Fermentis company might be pretty pissed off if a retailer was using the Fermentis logo (and implicit goodwill) to win sales of yeast that has been repackaged with unknown (or unstated) affect on the yeast viability and use-by date.

(Note that Coopers kit yeast bears the name 'Coopers Brewing Yeast', not the brand name Mauri which is the company that supplies Coopers with yeast).


Edit: corrected spelling of Coopers yeast.


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## technobabble66 (6/3/15)

@Florian: aah comprendez! 
Yeah, I'd agree with you on that one. 
I was just thinking of the silver packaged pic, not the earlier posted one - didn't realize that was also from the KK website. 
Certainly seems misleading - to advertise one product and supply another, even though similar. As an example, I'm pretty sure how eBay would see this if a seller was doing through eBay (without explicitly stating it's repackaged).


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## Tahoose (6/3/15)

At GABS last year I was talking to the mangrove jacks guys about their yeasts. They said that keg king wanted to do the same sort of thing with mangrove jacks yeasts. 

They didn't want a bar of it obviously, and that's why you don't get mangrove jacks yeasts at keg king.


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## big78sam (6/3/15)

I wonder if Ross @ craftbrewer has considered doing something similar? I for one would pay a bit more for a 15g sachet. I am often worried about pitching just one sachet when the OG gets over 1050. Maybe offer 2 options - 11g packs and 15g packs.


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## Spiesy (6/3/15)

big78sam said:


> I wonder if Ross @ craftbrewer has considered doing something similar? I for one would pay a bit more for a 15g sachet. I am often worried about pitching just one sachet when the OG gets over 1050. Maybe offer 2 options - 11g packs and 15g packs.


You could always just use 2 x sachets for your bigger beers.


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## Ross (6/3/15)

Fermentis do not permit anyone who repackages their yeast to put their brand name on the packet. Keg King are in clear breach of this on their packet calling it S-04. I guess it will only be a matter of time before they withdraw the name.
It is why we call S-189 Swiss Lager & not S-189. Our repackaged yeast has 10 to 15% more yeast per packet than the Fermentis proprietary packets, which is more than enough for a standard batch. 

Cheers

Ross/CraftBrewer


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## elcarter (6/3/15)

What's the issue this yeast comes in 280g packs.

Do I still need to re hydrate it for a 21L batch?


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## DU99 (6/3/15)

just Add Wort Elcarter :icon_offtopic:


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## elcarter (6/3/15)

Need a sign for on topic in this forum 

I'll send an E-mail to KK and check out how they are performing the yeast beak down into these packs. All way's been upfront and helpful with me.

From memory it's about ~ $80 bit less for the 500G pack so getting 33 packs @15G with a little left so should be turning about $85 profit + or - packaging and time.

I suspect they might be going the 5kg lots to make it viable.

Ross you ever had a customer claim your re-packaged yeast the cause of a bad beer? I personally doubt much could happen if done with care and there's a million ways to ruin beer. Would be impossible / hard to prove.


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## brad81 (6/3/15)

Because **** weighing out 11 point ******* 5 when you can do 15.


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## Bribie G (6/3/15)

That Lowan yeast does great pizzas.


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## Mr B (6/3/15)

I guess the problem would be that there may be a perception of a problem with the yeast, rather than an actual one.......


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## Camo6 (6/3/15)

Geez, that's damn cheeky packaging it like that. I've bought US05 from KK in the past knowing it was repackaged and, TBH, was getting extended lag times even with the extra quantity. Looking back it was what turned me off keeping US-05 as a back up dry yeast.
But at least I knew what I was getting. To get China to produce identical packaging in order to dupe the customer really gets my back up, assuming this is the case.
While I've never had a bad experience with KK and have always received good service, I knew what I was buying. "You knowed I was poison when you picked me up." (All hail the Crimson King.)


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## Bribie G (6/3/15)

I would guess the picture on the website isn't the real package, just Photoshopped.


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## Camo6 (6/3/15)

Bribie G said:


> I would guess the picture on the website isn't the real package, just Photoshopped.


Closer inspection on the pc agrees with you. Do you reckon the 30% more is for oxygen!


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## paulyman (6/3/15)

Bribie G said:


> That Lowan yeast does great pizzas.


Did exactly this tonight, it's a fortnightly tradition in our house.


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