# New Coopers Kit: English Bitter



## samhighley (31/3/09)

Coopers have released a new kit in the International Series: English Bitter.

According to the latest Coopers Club News, it contains Styrian Goldings for aroma, and has replaced the Original Series Bitter due to confusion about what style of beer the Original Series Bitter was.


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## Hefty (31/3/09)

Interesting. Might have to try it with a crystal steep and some more hops (maybe some fuggles...) for one of my next brews.

Cheers!
Jono.


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## Jimbo9 (2/4/09)

Saw the new kit at Coles today - at $20.85 it seems a bit pricey


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## Nickwrighty (2/4/09)

Not when you can pay up to $30 for a esb tin.
if its a good drop, ill try one.


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## Brisfox (2/4/09)

The er Bishops Bitter from Morgans isn"t bad and its a bit cheaper to. I did it with some extra hops.Not a bad drop.


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## RdeVjun (2/4/09)

Brisfox said:


> The er Bishops Bitter from Morgans isn"t bad and its a bit cheaper to. I did it with some extra hops.Not a bad drop.


Seconded. The Bishop's tin is quite good IMO- dark, rich and complex, extra hops take it into some fine and interesting territory. But I'll try this new one too if it ever shows up here out in the sticks. I haven't seen it as of yet.
Its probably sacrelige to some folks, but Coopers International Series Australian Pale Ale with a squirt of dark ME, majority of pale or light ME, S-04 and some hops [edit: late additions in the quick ME boil] does the job too, just not quite as interesting as the Bishop's, a different flavour profile. I'll be interested to see how the new Coopers EB compares to that though, the Bishop's is my benchmark.
[I'll probably get a fearsome slagging for fessing up to all this too... meh... whatever floats your boat. h34r: ]


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## Bribie G (2/4/09)

I've been waiting for an English Bitter from Coopers for ages, I'll definitely try this one and will use a better yeast like s-04 plus a mash of three kilos of MO. I've found some of the Coopers kits to be quite bitter enough, a bit of extra Styrians or EKG late hopping would be the go. At that price it will be an experiment only, can easily make an AG for less than that any day of the week but I'll try _anything_ h34r: once


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## Gavo (2/4/09)

RdeVjun said:


> But I'll try this new one too if it ever shows up here out in the sticks.



:icon_offtopic: Out in the sticks... Toowoomba? :lol: 

Might make a good kit with the light malt as suggested. As said though, A bit pricey to upgrade a bit if needed.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## pokolbinguy (2/4/09)

Jimbo9 said:


> Saw the new kit at Coles today - at $20.85 it seems a bit pricey



Wow $20+ for a coopers kit....getting rather pricey.


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## bignath (2/4/09)

I've got this one on the go at the moment as per the recommended recipe. (Can + 500g LDM). I usually add extra malt and hops to my beers but i guess ya got to try it as recommended first, so not sure what to make of this one. I was interested enough to part with $20 for the can, and i already had the LDM anyway, so we'll see how it goes. If it turns out crap, atleast i'll know what to do / what not to do next time.


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## RdeVjun (2/4/09)

gavo said:


> :icon_offtopic: Out in the sticks... Toowoomba? :lol:
> 
> Might make a good kit with the light malt as suggested. As said though, A bit pricey to upgrade a bit if needed.
> 
> ...


 :icon_offtopic: Yep, granted gavo (who lives way, way west of here, truly out in the sticks, BTW)- I tore the fork clean out of it with that, just a bit. So, you've busted me again! (We even have an LHBS here, so in his eyes we're terribly spoilt!)
Anyway, you want me to grab you a couple if they show up?? Or is the Miles I _ A on to them, gavo? I'll be getting a 'sample' to give it a whirl. Strictly in the interests of research and evaluation, mind..


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## Gavo (2/4/09)

RdeVjun said:


> :icon_offtopic: Yep, granted gavo (who lives way, way west of here, truly out in the sticks, BTW)- I tore the fork clean out of it with that, just a bit. So, you've busted me again! (We even have an LHBS here, so in his eyes we're terribly spoilt!)
> Anyway, you want me to grab you a couple if they show up?? Or is the Miles I _ A on to them, gavo? I'll be getting a 'sample' to give it a whirl. Strictly in the interests of research and evaluation, mind..



:icon_offtopic: Ha Ha all in jest of course, couldn't let that one pass. No harm intended. We go to Toowoomba when we want to go to the big malls and don't want to go to Brisvagas. Great town Toowoomba.

Thanks for the offer but I think wait and see what you guys think.. even though I will be doing a brew demo next month at the local show. One of these would be good but I think I will go with what I can get locally and tart it up a bit. Probably a euro larger. Will also be doing an AG for the day.

Nothing wrong with scientific research and evaluation... it does need to be done extensively.

Cheers
Gavo


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## BOG (2/4/09)

The web site states 420 EBC and 590 IBU.

So what's that when it's made up and how are you supposed to use that figure?


BOG


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## petesbrew (2/4/09)

pokolbinguy said:


> Wow $20+ for a coopers kit....getting rather pricey.


Is that fair dinkum? $20??? The other internationals are low $13ish


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## buttersd70 (2/4/09)

BOG said:


> The web site states 420 EBC and 590 IBU.
> 
> So what's that when it's made up and how are you supposed to use that figure?
> 
> ...



link
towards the bottom.


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## Gavo (2/4/09)

There is a lot of discussion about Coopers IBU rating. From what I understand if you take the IBU and divide it by your volume you get the basic IBU... So for 23 lt 590/23 = 25.7 IBU. EBC... not so sure I used to multiply by the kg and then divide by volume 420 x 1.7 / 23 = 31 EBC.

I now stand and wait for correction. 

Cheers
Gavo.

Edit: Corrected before even finished, B^%*y hell Butters. 1.7*590/23=43 IBU less 10% - 30%.


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## BOG (2/4/09)

I should have just asked you butters. Didn't see you where online.

31 EBC and 43 IBU. Makes it 8C. and ESB. Interesting.....




BOG


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## buttersd70 (2/4/09)

gavo said:


> There is a lot of discussion about Coopers IBU rating. From what I understand if you take the IBU and divide it by your volume you get the basic IBU... So for 23 lt 590/23 = 25.7 IBU. EBC... not so sure I used to multiply by the kg and then divide by volume 420 x 1.7 / 23 = 31 EBC.
> 
> I now stand and wait for correction.
> 
> ...


Well...
_Technically _it would be correct to do it the way they say on the coopers site....however, I tend to agree with you, straight division is more realistic imo, even though technically it's not correct. They have the wonderful little disclaimer of (for their example of the cerveza)

_



This figure represents the brew bitterness prior to fermentation. Generally, fermentation reduces colour and bitterness by between 10 to 30%. So final bitterness of the fermented brew may be anything from 14 to 18 IBU.

Click to expand...


_straight division for this tin would give ~12IBU. So I would take it as either straight division, or using a factor of 1.2 (1.7*0.7); whichever you are comfortable with. (personally, for volumes of 21-25L, I would divide straight, any further away from the 23L it was designed for, I would use the factor)._
_

Edit: BOG, I'd be more inclined to believe it is in the region of 26IBU as Gavo mentioned; particularly if it is designed to be mixed with 500gLDM. Because that makes sense, to me.


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## RdeVjun (2/4/09)

gavo said:


> :icon_offtopic: Ha Ha all in jest of course, couldn't let that one pass. No harm intended. We go to Toowoomba when we want to go to the big malls and don't want to go to Brisvagas. Great town Toowoomba.
> 
> Thanks for the offer but I think wait and see what you guys think.. even though I will be doing a brew demo next month at the local show. One of these would be good but I think I will go with what I can get locally and tart it up a bit. Probably a euro larger. Will also be doing an AG for the day.
> 
> ...


Still OT:
None whatsoever taken, gavo, completely in jest! I should've known you'd be watching my every move. Keep up that fantastic scientific research out there! (Ha, the big malls! Cracks me up! Actually no, you're not far wrong.) Anyway, back to the evaluation.

Even further OT and apologies if this hijacks a thread completely and utterly:
Oh, and I feel I'd be speaking on behalf on a fair proportion of us in suggesting a very warm welcome back to a briefly- lost and badly- missed HBer. Glad you came back to the boards. Some things may have changed a wee bit, some others haven't... Cheers. 
[Hmm, maybe I should've PMed. A thousand pardons.]


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## rclemmett (3/4/09)

Does anyone know what yeast (and size) it comes with?


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## mauriceatron (5/4/09)

Nothing like a new Cooper's kit to get everyone excited. Made up as per instructions, anybody taken OG & FG reading yet?

It's not at my local coles or K-Mart yet (doesn't look like Woolies are ranging it from the Cooper's website, the $20 price tag may have something to do with it). Just noticed something funny when I went to the Coles website to see if they had it listed there. According to Coles, they don't sell Cooper's Lager or Farmland Lager, they sell Cooper's *Larger* and Farmland *Larger* :blink: 

They do sell Toohey's Lager though...

Anyway, I'll part with the $20 when it comes to town. I love a bitter and I remember OD'ing on the original series bitter years ago when I first gave it a shot with BE2  

cheers
Simon


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## michaelcocks (9/4/09)

Anyone know where you can get this? - I've been to 2 Coles and two BigW with no luck..

I am in North West Sydney

TIA

Michael


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## petesbrew (9/4/09)

michaelcocks said:


> Anyone know where you can get this? - I've been to 2 Coles and two BigW with no luck..
> 
> I am in North West Sydney
> 
> ...



I saw it just last weekend in Coles at Carlingford Court.
They always have a better stock than the Woolies there.


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## Cube (9/4/09)

Spied it at coles Labrador for 24 bucks!


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## samhighley (10/4/09)

Cube said:


> Spied it at coles Labrador for 24 bucks!



Holy crap. That is expensive.

It hasn't hit the Coopers online store yet, so it'll be interesting to see how it compares to other Coopers 'International Series' kits when it does.


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## DKS (10/4/09)

For that money Ill let some one else try it out. $20+ plus added malt, hops etc, no thanks. Ill buy unhopped malt or a cheaper low IBU kit then addition to suit. The styrian has my interest though.

While Im at it Ive got to add I wasnt at all impressed with the Bishops Bitter either maybe thats put me off a bit. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


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## Jimbo9 (10/4/09)

A side effect of the new Coopers kit release is that Coles are clearing out a lot of other kits to make way. My local Coles has the whole Cascade range on special for $4 as well as Tooheys dark and Tooheys real ale for $3.50/$4.00. Regular Coopers range not reduced but Wanders is also $4 and Brigalow Ginger beer $3.50.

Some kits were very dusty and sell by dates on the Tooheys in particular were imminent. I bought a few various tins and will check again to see if they lower the Brigalow cider.




Jim


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## michaelcocks (15/4/09)

michaelcocks said:


> Anyone know where you can get this? - I've been to 2 Coles and two BigW with no luck..
> 
> I am in North West Sydney
> 
> ...



OK So I managed to find it. ..at last (Coles Rouse Hill Town Centre - two days prior it wasn't there)

Will brew up and post results:


Date on tin was BBB 02 2011 so my guess is this was made Feb 2009 since most Coopers kits seem to have a two year shelf life (IMHO)

Brewed as suggested on Coopers site and on label (ie with 500gm of LDM)
Late extract method with LDM - boiled with 5L water for 15 min with 10-25 gms EKG hops to add bit flavour
Pitched onto Safale SO4 yeast cake
Very surprised that the OG was only 1030 - at 22L ... (Yes this is probably strictly to style for an Ordinary English Bitter, but nonetheless if this finishes at (say) 1006 then will be very low 3's for ABV ...
First taste of wort appears a bit thin and not much malt backbone to support the hops.

Anyway it flared up nicely and was fermenting within 2 hours at about20 in my fridge (on timer that only click in for 10 mins 5 times a day - so can keep a pretty constant temp...)

Keep ya posted on progress.


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## tahzan (16/4/09)

Poor form by Coopers to use the Union Jack on an 'English' Bitter.

Probably an attempt by marketing to steer away from the hooligan overtones of the English flag. 

Or maybe they were worried that a St George cross would limit purchases to Dragons fans. Wealthy ones at $21 a pop!


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## PostModern (16/4/09)

Seems like they're price gouging the early adopter ex-pats.


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## samhighley (16/4/09)

PostModern said:


> Seems like they're price gouging the early adopter ex-pats.



That would be a fine strategy for early adopters and innovators if you had a product that was in high-demand before release. 

But they need to build some marketing momentum, and early adopters are critical for this, so it's a bad strategy in that case.


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## michaelcocks (17/4/09)

michaelcocks said:


> OK So I managed to find it. ..at last (Coles Rouse Hill Town Centre - two days prior it wasn't there)
> 
> Will brew up and post results:
> 
> ...



OK so 2 days in we are sitting at 1010, initial tasting from gravity reading is that it certainly has English tones - very hoppy more of a southern English bitter than northern (they tend to be more malt driven) Probably doesn't have enough crystal in for my taste to balance hop properly, but I'll give it time before I consider tweaking with some infused and 1 min boiled crystal...

At $26 odd bucks it's pretty expensive (I am including the cost of 500gm malt as per recipe...) That gets up to the cost of ESB very fine traditional English Bitter (less the yeast..I usually have stock of these so get $3 reduction...) Still if you are like me and all the HBS's are a fair distance, then picking up a can with the groceries certainly has it's appeal, and you can get it past the SWBO (Chief of finance and war...) I expect and hope that Coopers will reduce the price in line with all the other International series kits...

Cheers

Michael


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## Steve (17/4/09)

tahzan said:


> Probably an attempt by marketing to steer away from the hooligan overtones of the English flag.



I seriously doubt it. Do you think some suit would think - oh hang on a tick people wont buy this because the checkout chick, the garbo and the guy at the re-cycling depot might think im a thug? It was probably more the suits ignorance by thinking that the Union Jack just means England.
Cheers
Steve


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## Jimbo9 (28/4/09)

I saw this kit in Coles at $13.79 today, the same as the rest of the international series. It's also on Coppers website at $13.50.
Coles had the original bitter on special at $5.99


Jim


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## samhighley (29/4/09)

Yep, over on the Coopers Club Forum, Paul from Coopers confirmed that the early price of +$20 was a pricing mistake by Coles, and it would be corrected. I guess it has been.


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## caleb (29/4/09)

Steve said:


> I seriously doubt it. Do you think some suit would think - oh hang on a tick people wont buy this because the checkout chick, the garbo and the guy at the re-cycling depot might think im a thug? It was probably more the suits ignorance by thinking that the Union Jack just means England.
> Cheers
> Steve


Of course... would you expect some graphic designer or marketing manager in Adelaide to know the fine distinctions between Great Britian, the UK, England, etc, etc. 'Course not.

More to the point - would THEY expect their average customer to?

And even more to the point - what exactly WAS the original Cooper's Bitter? I almost bought one at $6.99 the other day (Use by 2010 too!) I suspect it's actually the same thing and this is just an attempt to firstly clarify the type of beer it is (NOT a Vic Bitter!) and secondly get an extra few bucks for the tin, now it's "international series" instead of "original".


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## samhighley (29/4/09)

Caleb said:


> I suspect it's actually the same thing and this is just an attempt to firstly clarify the type of beer it is (NOT a Vic Bitter!) and secondly get an extra few bucks for the tin, now it's "international series" instead of "original".



I doubt it. Coopers have stated that the new brew contains Styrian Goldings hops, and I doubt the old Bitter featured them.


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## mckenry (29/4/09)

Caleb said:


> Of course... would you expect some graphic designer or marketing manager in Adelaide to know the fine distinctions between Great Britian, the UK, England, etc, etc. 'Course not.
> 
> More to the point - would THEY expect their average customer to?
> 
> And even more to the point - what exactly WAS the original Cooper's Bitter? I almost bought one at $6.99 the other day (Use by 2010 too!) I suspect it's actually the same thing and this is just an attempt to firstly clarify the type of beer it is (NOT a Vic Bitter!) and secondly get an extra few bucks for the tin, now it's "international series" instead of "original".



My thoughts exactly. What was the original then? I reckon the English Bitter is rebadged original series. Colour remains the same, bitterness changes by 30IBU over 620IBU. Hardly a 'new' style.
But, they have to keep the interest up and they've achieved that.


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## samhighley (29/4/09)

mckenry said:


> I reckon the English Bitter is rebadged original series. Colour remains the same, bitterness changes by 30IBU over 620IBU. Hardly a 'new' style.



Are you seriously trying to say that two beers that are the same colour and within a few bitterness points of each other must be the same style?


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## mckenry (29/4/09)

Sammy said:


> Are you seriously trying to say that two beers that are the same colour and within a few bitterness points of each other must be the same style?



No, only coopers tins in this case.


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## michaelcocks (9/5/09)

michaelcocks said:


> OK so 2 days in we are sitting at 1010, initial tasting from gravity reading is that it certainly has English tones - very hoppy more of a southern English bitter than northern (they tend to be more malt driven) Probably doesn't have enough crystal in for my taste to balance hop properly, but I'll give it time before I consider tweaking with some infused and 1 min boiled crystal...
> 
> At $26 odd bucks it's pretty expensive (I am including the cost of 500gm malt as per recipe...) That gets up to the cost of ESB very fine traditional English Bitter (less the yeast..I usually have stock of these so get $3 reduction...) Still if you are like me and all the HBS's are a fair distance, then picking up a can with the groceries certainly has it's appeal, and you can get it past the SWBO (Chief of finance and war...) I expect and hope that Coopers will reduce the price in line with all the other International series kits...
> 
> ...



After bottling and carbonating for two weeks the brew tastes great - Very, very clear - Still very much a Southern English beer (hoppier than the more malt driven Northern English beers) Might soften over time but will be a surprise to those how have only tried Boddingtons, Caffreys, Tetleys, Kilkenny, Newcastle Brown (why do we only get Norter English or Irish beers here ?) Needs more caramel backbone for my taste but overall very good alcohol deffinately low to mid. Finished at 1008 - about 3.x % a session beer. I carbonated to English style (half of Aussie lager) Good English hopd aroma. 

Nice to see it is coming down in price.

Cheers


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## DKS (10/5/09)

At $26 odd bucks it's pretty expensive (I am including the cost of 500gm malt as per recipe...) That gets up to the cost of ESB very fine traditional English Bitter (less the yeast..I usually have stock of these so get $3 reduction...) Still if you are like me and all the HBS's are a fair distance, then picking up a can with the groceries certainly has it's appeal, and you can get it past the SWBO (Chief of finance and war...) I expect and hope that Coopers will reduce the price in line with all the other International series kits...

Cheers

Michael
[/quote]

Crazy prices 
I saw this Friday arvo at Coles Morayfeild for $10.something. The problem must be with Coles I suspect. They dont know what theyre doing.
Maybe youll get lucky at your local Coles if you like this one. Thanks for updates on brew. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


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## Stixor (12/5/09)

Just noticed that my local Coles is selling the English Bitter for around $13 a can now.


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## Hutch (12/5/09)

Just finished fermening one of these, and very impressed with the results so far.
I must confess though that I only used the kit as a base, pepping it up with 2kg Maris Otter, and some additional aroma/flavour hops (Northdown and First Gold). I also threw WY1187 Ringwood into the mix, which I'm very impressed with (cheers MikE!).

So although I bastardised the Coopers instructions, I do have a few comments worth noting:
*** The Colour is quite dark for a Southern English Bitter. I would guess around 28EBC made to the kit instructions. (Mine is certainly almost a Brown Ale in colour, made to 21Ltrs).

*** Bitterness is a little on the high side IMO. 590IBU in the kit dilutes to +40IBU in the fermenter. Made to their suggestion (+ 500gm DME), gives well over 1:1 BU:GU ratio - getting a little high for an ordinary bitter. This is part of the reason I added a sizeable amount of Grain, to increase the OG up to "Special Bitter".

So, other than decreasing the IBUs and color a fraction, I recon Coopers have another great kit to add to their already decent international lineup.
...and as always, kits are best when they are fresh. At $13, and only a few months old, I reckon now's a great time to put one of these down, just in time for winter!


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## mwd (12/5/09)

From another Ozzy Forum ex Coopers, Coles had the pricing wrong and the English Bitter is the same price as all the other International Beers in the Coopers Range so from my local Coles anywhere from 9.99 to 13.99 depending on the phase of the moon seems to be about right.

Nothing really to put you off giving it a go.

Edit: Already price corrected on page 2 of this thread forgot to go backwards in thread.....

Might give this one a try with a hop update/upgrade with Bramling Cross as an experiment.


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## syd_03 (13/5/09)

Saw this at my local cole for $20 od a few weeks back. 

Saw it today for 13.76 as per price noted above.

Not sure why the introductory price was so high though.

Saying that my local HBS still sells the Coopers Australian pale ale for $18.90.

I will grab one and throw one down next week sometime. Will be adding malt and later hop additions as usual.

Who has a good recipe for me?

Has anyone got one that has been in the bottle for 4 or more weeks? If so how does it go and what did you do to it?

Cheers


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## samhighley (13/5/09)

syd_03 said:


> Not sure why the introductory price was so high though.



As I pointed out earlier in this thread, Coles made a mistake with the pricing.

This had nothing to do with Coopers. Coopers pointed out the mistake to Coles, and they've corrected it.

Sam


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## Dave86 (13/5/09)

I put one of these down on the weekend, not to instructions however as I was going for an irish red ale type of beer. Ingredients as follows;

1 Coopers English Bitter Kit
4.5kg coopers light LME
1kg Morgans choc malt masterblend (OT: apparently these will be going out of production)

Boiled up 75g of NZ styrians and goldings (total) with the choc malt can

Made up to 40L and fermented @ 18 degrees with two sachets of US-05

OG:1054, 25 IBU from the can (and a couple more from the mini-boil) and 35.4 EBC or 13.8 SRM (according to my obsessive calcs)

A bit pricey at almost 80 bucks, but it still comes out at less than $20/case  

Will report back in a couple of weeks once its in the keg


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