# Brewing A Fat Yak



## mikec (17/6/12)

Going to have a go at a Fat Yak clone.
Trying to keep it simple.
This is also my first go at No Chill, am I on the right track with the hops?


*First I created the recipe in Brewmate with No-Chill UN-selected:*


Fat Yak

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.638
Total Hops (g): 65.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (P): 13.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.40 %
Colour (SRM): 7.1 (EBC): 13.9
Bitterness (IBU): 27.2 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill
----------------
3.942 kg Ale Malt (BB) (85%)
0.464 kg Wheat Malt (BB) (10%)
0.232 kg Caramunich I (5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
10.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) (0.8 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
1.3 g Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
2.5 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

15 min protein rest at 52C
60 min sach rest at 66C
Stir while raising to 78C and sparge

Ferment at 18C with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II


*Then I selected No-Chill and made the following changes to the hops:*

Bitterness (IBU): 24.5 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
10.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
15.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.8 g/L)


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## seamad (17/6/12)

Been a while since i had one but imo it is fairly malty, id put in 10-15% munich in there.

Id also scrap the zero minute hops and add 20 g each to the cube, then dry hop with the same. Keep the bittering hops.
Cheers
Sean


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## Nick JD (17/6/12)

If you have (can get) NZ Cascade flowers, I reckon it's better. Kinda more crisp/sharp with it, if that makes sense.


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## mikec (17/6/12)

Cheers guys

Brewing today so only pellets.

How does this look:

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.638
Total Hops (g): 90.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (P): 13.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.40 %
Colour (SRM): 7.6 (EBC): 14.9
Bitterness (IBU): 24.5 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill
----------------
3.710 kg Ale Malt (BB) (80%)
0.464 kg Munich I (10%)
0.232 kg Caramunich I (5%)
0.232 kg Wheat Malt (BB) (5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
20.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (in cube) (1 g/L)
20.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (in cube) (1 g/L)
20.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (1 g/L)
20.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (1 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
1.3 g Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
2.5 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

15 min protein rest at 52C
60 min sach rest at 66C
Stir while raising to 78C and sparge

Ferment at 18C with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II


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## Shifter (17/6/12)

In the Recipe DB Forum there is a recipe and comments on a "Fatter Yak" I have brewed it several time and it is a very, very nice beer. Check it out for some guide lines.


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## mikec (25/6/12)

Primary fermentation is almost finished on this one.
It's a golden colour but I recall Fat Yak being a bit darker with maybe a hint of amber/red - what do the collective think?
I have some caramber, could I steep some and throw it in before fermentation is finished?


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## seamad (25/6/12)

Got any carafa II ?
Caramber might not make a lot of difference.

If you have some carafa II ( or any I or III ) steep some then add a little at a time until you get the colour you are after
sean


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## Dazza88 (25/6/12)

boil and chill down any steeped liquid as well before you add to fermenter


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## mikec (25/6/12)

seamad said:


> Got any carafa II ?
> Caramber might not make a lot of difference.
> 
> If you have some carafa II ( or any I or III ) steep some then add a little at a time until you get the colour you are after
> sean


I've got Carafa Special T3 - EBC is 1300-1500! 
So just a wee bit of this?


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## seamad (25/6/12)

Try 50g steeped in 200ml overnight ( cold water), boil then chill following day, add a bit at a time until happy with colour. That way you get the colour without a lot of the dark flavours.

cheers
sean


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## .DJ. (25/6/12)

why worry about the colour?


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## mikec (25/6/12)

.DJ. said:


> why worry about the colour?


True it probably doesn't affect things much.
But I would like to try and replicate the original. (I even have Fat Yak glasses, heh heh)
This is also learning and experience for me.


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## mikec (25/6/12)

seamad said:


> Try 50g steeped in 200ml overnight ( cold water), boil then chill following day, add a bit at a time until happy with colour. That way you get the colour without a lot of the dark flavours.
> 
> cheers
> sean


Cheers Seamad, will give it a go.


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## lukasfab (25/6/12)

let us know how it tastes when done


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## .DJ. (25/6/12)

mikec said:


> True it probably doesn't affect things much.
> But I would like to try and replicate the original. (I even have Fat Yak glasses, heh heh)
> This is also learning and experience for me.



If its a learning experience, leave it as is. 

Do a side by side taste test.
Adjust as you see fit (by only adjustusting one variable at a me)
Repeat.

this will help you understand how your adjustments effect the flavour profile of a beer. 


you never know, it may be *PERFECT* right now and you are messing with it? B)


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## cam89brewer (25/6/12)

seamad said:


> Try 50g steeped in 200ml overnight ( cold water), boil then chill following day, add a bit at a time until happy with colour. That way you get the colour without a lot of the dark flavours.
> 
> cheers
> sean




Why would you be trying to darken it when you are aiming to clone a beer that looks like this? :blink: it should be fine without the carafa...


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## seamad (25/6/12)

cambrew said:


> Why would you be trying to darken it when you are aiming to clone a beer that looks like this? :blink: it should be fine without the carafa...






> Primary fermentation is almost finished on this one.
> It's a golden colour but I recall Fat Yak being a bit darker with maybe a hint of amber/red - what do the collective think?
> I have some caramber, could I steep some and throw it in before fermentation is finished?
> 
> This post has been edited by mikec: Today, 12:57 PM


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## mikec (25/6/12)

Hmm I'm thinking I need to go and buy one. The local was out of stock but i'll get one somewhere. 
That pic is lighter than I remember.
If it's massively different I might play with half the batch. If not, I'll leave it this time.


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## goldstar (26/6/12)

I'm convinced the recipe has changed since 2009. Does anyone have an old and new picture of it?


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## Jace89 (26/6/12)

I had it on tap the other night, I'd agree it changed slightly. Now it's more hop forward something l found quite nice for a change. I'd say just push the hop additions later in the boil or even increase the amount of hops. 
I havnt tried to clone it but it's something I should get around for the misses...I much prefer the alpha ale myself


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## mikec (28/6/12)

OK, I bought a bottle to compare the colour.
And so the results are in. And they are... my memory is shit.







The one on the right is mine. Still in primary at 18C so it is obviously more cloudy. I actually think it has gone a bit more orange since last week (which is good).
The one on the left is a true Fat Yak. Pretty damn close.

So I shall leave this brew alone and let it finish as is.
Primary is just about done, will crash chill and dry hop in a few days.


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## doxhead (6/12/12)

I'd love an update on this.


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## mckenry (7/12/12)

OK All,
Before anyone screams do a search, I tried here Pages and pages of results

What is the latest thinking on a Fat Yak clone. My wife and I went out last night and had a couple of FY's off tap in Newtown and they were good, really good.

I want to clone it, but there are some seriously wide specs in any of the clone brews on here. EBC on some clones is 8 while others are around 20! I'm not confusing EBC with SRM, its straight off their recipes.

So, whats the latest? Who has the best clone on here? The recipe database doesnt have much in the way of ratings on any of the clone brews I could find.

From my own tastings last night, there was a nice balance of malt and hops, leaning to the hops. Hops were fruity, probably Cascade and something, but it really didnt taste like Nelson Sauvin to me. None of that Sauvignon Blanc after taste that NS gives. May have been dominated by the cascade and/or crystal malt? My first taste and I thought Simcoe, but then it didnt seem ballsy enough.

Anyway, if there's the 'winner' clone here, please let me in the loop !

mckenry


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## GuyQLD (7/12/12)

The recipe "Fatter Yak" in the recipe DB is great place to start. I no chill and for 23L use the following.

Original Gravity (OG): 1.051 (P): 12.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 5.01 %
Colour (SRM): 7.3 (EBC): 14.3
Bitterness (IBU): 37.6 (Rager - No Chill Adjusted)

80% Pale Ale Malt
9% Carapils (Dextrine)
9% Munich I
2% Crystal 120

0.4 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 67C for 90 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 18C with Safale US-05

The 30Min additions are actually Cube Hops, the 0 dry hopped at 4 days and I adjust the 60min addition to alter the bitterness to where I want it (I prefer a touch my balance). My last attempt was a bit to heavy on the cascade flavour to be honest, and was also a touch low on the bitterness so I'd probably try upping the Nelson in the cube a bit more to balance it out.

Colour wise it's pretty spot on, maybe even a touch too dark.


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## mckenry (7/12/12)

GuyQLD said:


> The recipe "Fatter Yak" in the recipe DB is great place to start. I no chill and for 23L use the following.
> 
> The 30Min additions are actually Cube Hops, the 0 dry hopped at 4 days and I adjust the 60min addition to alter the bitterness to where I want it (I prefer a touch my balance). My last attempt was a bit to heavy on the cascade flavour to be honest, and was also a touch low on the bitterness so I'd probably try upping the Nelson in the cube a bit more to balance it out.
> 
> Colour wise it's pretty spot on, maybe even a touch too dark.



Hi GuyQLD - yep saw that one. I am surprised the colour is spot on - looks a bit light to me? Matilda Bay have said that the IBU is 26 (or maybe it was 24) so when you say you were a touch low on the bitterness, do you mean as per the recipe above? i.e. you were under 37 or you think 37 was too low to be a FY clone?


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## Maheel (7/12/12)

I did the fatter yak yesterday (no chill) only I used bravo instead of the NS. It,s going onto yeast today. 

Smelt and tasted pretty good out of the boiler.


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## GuyQLD (7/12/12)

Hmm, the fatter yak recipe is slightly maltier so it can support a slightly higher IBU - keeping in mind that the 37 I've got on there isn't particularly accurate. Cube hopping is a bit of an unknown variable. I use those values to give estimates.. but you'd have to give it a go or two on your gear to know for sure.

I don't know if you'd be able to get the same as a proper fat yak with no chill. The two hops used are fairly high AA% and trying to get the flavour and aroma without going over 27 IBU would be hard... I guess you could try only cube hop.. no idea what it would look like though (OR let it stand for 20mins for cubing.. get it closer to 80 degrees and that'll significantly change it.

The real IBU in mine is probably closer to 32ish, but that's completely anecdotal. 

The grain bill is a real winner though.


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## Byran (7/12/12)

GuyQLD said:


> Hmm, the fatter yak recipe is slightly maltier so it can support a slightly higher IBU - keeping in mind that the 37 I've got on there isn't particularly accurate. Cube hopping is a bit of an unknown variable. I use those values to give estimates.. but you'd have to give it a go or two on your gear to know for sure.
> 
> I don't know if you'd be able to get the same as a proper fat yak with no chill. The two hops used are fairly high AA% and trying to get the flavour and aroma without going over 27 IBU would be hard... I guess you could try only cube hop.. no idea what it would look like though (OR let it stand for 20mins for cubing.. get it closer to 80 degrees and that'll significantly change it.
> 
> ...


I have been told a nice easy way to get your late additions into a cubed No chill by some experienced no chillers.
Just do your bittering additions, then cube the beer.
Before your are going to pitch it put the cube in the fridge, or ice bath till its really cold.
Then take about 2 litres or so from the chilled wort and boil it on the stove.
Use this as a mini boil to do your 20, 15, 10, 5,1 and flame out additions as you wish.
Pour the cold cube into a prepped fermenter then pour the boiling wort with the late additions straight on top for an instant chill. 
The temps should balance out, I usually get between 13 deg C and 16 deg C which is good for pitching cold yeast from the fridge. You can match the temps perfect with the yeast just wait till they warm up or cool them down to match, or boil more or less wort, its not super difficult. 
You can do away with cube hopping, you wont denature your hop aroma at all and its super easy to nail your IBU.
I hope this helps with getting a perfect Fat Yak with NC


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## mckenry (7/12/12)

GuyQLD said:


> Hmm, the fatter yak recipe is slightly maltier so it can support a slightly higher IBU - keeping in mind that the 37 I've got on there isn't particularly accurate. Cube hopping is a bit of an unknown variable. I use those values to give estimates.. but you'd have to give it a go or two on your gear to know for sure.
> 
> I don't know if you'd be able to get the same as a proper fat yak with no chill. The two hops used are fairly high AA% and trying to get the flavour and aroma without going over 27 IBU would be hard... I guess you could try only cube hop.. no idea what it would look like though (OR let it stand for 20mins for cubing.. get it closer to 80 degrees and that'll significantly change it.
> 
> ...



Cheers - as usual, it really comes down to having a play yourself, not WITH yourself.
I have a 3V herms and a 30 plate chiller, so dont have to worry about how many IBU's are in cube hopping, or late hopping when no chilling etc. Even though I rapid chill, I used to no chill and dont really notice any difference....

As for the grain bill - probably a good start.

Still, I'd like to clone it, not make a beer that is better/hoppier/maltier than what the original is. Cloning is a tough test, designing great beers, whilst great, is not as hard as cloning.

Thats why my question is pretty much aimed at "what is the best Fat Yak clone out there?" not "what is the best APA based on Fat Yak?" Slightly different, but so am I....

Just as Tony's LCBA is regarded as THE clone, even though the recipe DB has plenty of other LCBA attempts.

But, GuyQLD, you have given me food for thought, AND, most importantly, conclusions based on experience, so thanks, definitely something to work with. Any further thoughts on colour?

mckenry


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## GuyQLD (7/12/12)

I've still got a bottle around here somewhere. In the name of science I could perhaps be persuaded to do a side by side. Need to head to dans though, haven't got any of the original at the moment. How soon are you looking at brewing? I've got a 3 day brew/lan this weekend so I'm sure we can find time.

I know last time I had it on tap it was darker than I remembered and the fatter yak came in pretty close. I'll see what I can do.


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## mckenry (7/12/12)

GuyQLD said:


> I've still got a bottle around here somewhere. In the name of science I could perhaps be persuaded to do a side by side. Need to head to dans though, haven't got any of the original at the moment. How soon are you looking at brewing? I've got a 3 day brew/lan this weekend so I'm sure we can find time.
> 
> I know last time I had it on tap it was darker than I remembered and the fatter yak came in pretty close. I'll see what I can do.



Great idea. I wont be brewing til weekend after this, so you have about 5 days til I buy grain & hops.
Thanks GuyQLD. Some piccies would be good too.

mckenry


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## Bribie G (7/12/12)

Byran said:


> I have been told a nice easy way to get your late additions into a cubed No chill by some experienced no chillers.
> Just do your bittering additions, then cube the beer.
> Before your are going to pitch it put the cube in the fridge, or ice bath till its really cold.
> Then take about 2 litres or so from the chilled wort and boil it on the stove.
> ...



Byran describes Argon's method for late hopping with NC (sadly the big man doesn't post any more). 

Another good method which uses less power is to do a "reverse Argon" - don't completely chill the entire cube, just get it to pitching temp, but boil the 2L of reserved wort as described. Then after the hop boil, chill THAT to pitching temp which should only take a few mins in the freezer, then pour into the bulk wort and then pitch.


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## mikec (7/12/12)

My recipe ended up being (for no chill):

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.638
Total Hops (g): 90.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (P): 13.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.40 %
Colour (SRM): 7.6 (EBC): 14.9
Bitterness (IBU): 24.5 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 75

Grain Bill
----------------
3.710 kg Ale Malt (BB) (80%)
0.464 kg Munich I (10%)
0.232 kg Caramunich I (5%)
0.232 kg Wheat Malt (BB) (5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes
20.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes 
20.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes
20.0 g Cascade Pellet (5.6% Alpha) @ Cube 
20.0 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ Cube

Misc Bill
----------------
1.3 g Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
2.5 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

55C rest for 10 mins, then 66C for 60 mins, then mash out.

Fermented at 18C with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II


As you can see above, the colour came pretty close.


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## mckenry (7/12/12)

mikec said:


> My recipe ended up being (for no chill):
> 
> Recipe Specs
> ----------------
> ...



Looks like a good one too.


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## twizt1d (7/12/12)

i thought the grain bill was a bit too malty too until i had a few pints of 'fat yak' from a freshly tapped keg in Portland early last year and was actually really suprised at how close it was to what i had on tap at home (as the recipe is in the DB but with weyermann malts)
it actually made me smile 

id say the grain bill is pretty well on the money, especially if you scaled back the gravity for a proper clone
real deal is 4.7%, not sure what the FG really is since i havent taken a hydro to the real yak but id guess OG 1.045 - FG 1.010, thats 77% apparent attenuation which is about right for US-05 which they probably use

i probably wouldnt try to clone what you get in the bottles, its almost like a completely different beer
i dont know why but the nice malty backbone seems really stripped out in the bottles


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