# Delivered a sack of expired grain



## Futur (30/10/15)

I've recently just ordered my first sack of grain (weyermann pilsner) but upon looking at the sack the best before date is February this year. The grain was discounted but no mention was made on the website about the age of the product. I feel like I've been tricked into buying it. 

Any suggestions on what to do next? 

Will the grain be fine to use over the next 12 months?


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## Mardoo (30/10/15)

Company should have told you. Return it.


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## MartinOC (30/10/15)

Keep the grain you have (use it, it'll be fine).

Insist on a refund or replacement of up-to-date stuff.


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## BJB (30/10/15)

I'm sure it will be ok, but 8 months out of date without telling you? Who did you order this from?
I often wonder how old my specialty grains are that just arrive in a plastic bag.


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## butisitart (30/10/15)

Futur said:


> I've recently just ordered my first sack of grain (weyermann pilsner) but upon looking at the sack the best before date is February this year. The grain was discounted but no mention was made on the website about the age of the product. I feel like I've been tricked into buying it.
> 
> Any suggestions on what to do next?
> 
> Will the grain be fine to use over the next 12 months?


mmmm.... (supplier name hidden by moderator)
i been buying discounted weyermann pils from them for about 2 months.
if that be so,,,,
on the one side, i've just tasted a taster off my oldest brew from that, and mine is fine.
on the other side, you've got a case under the consumer act 2009 if you don't want it, and want to return it.
on another side, if a grain or hop or whatever has been discounted, it has probably hit or near hit its use by date. hence the discount, although that doesn't negate the consumer act 2009 if you weren't advised prior to the sale of what the use by date is, and you want to return it.
so.... you've got a perfectly legal option to return said grain at seller's expense and get refund, or you can run with it.
i'm good with mine, but i only got a few kilos, and that's my choice.
if you run with it, i'd still tell your supplier that they should advertise its use by date so that their customers can make an informed decision about purchase.
my most humble and ingratiating apologies to (supplier name hidden by moderator) if that is not the supplier.


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## Danscraftbeer (30/10/15)

Fresh is always best with everything. Not to say that you cant make good use of what you have either.
A bit of chefs intuitions could conjure up a good brew. :chug:


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## Blind Dog (31/10/15)

If they didn't tell you it was out of date, they'll likely be in breach of some consumer protection law or other, if they didn't say so in the ad. Depends on where they're based as to which law it is. I'd call them and explain and give them the opportunity to put it right. Could well be an honest mistake.

Also, kudos for not naming the retailer. All too easy go let fly here and not (at least initially) give the benefit of the doubt to the retailer. We're none of us perfect


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## Yob (31/10/15)

not good enough

this day and age, second best is just that.. Personally Id make a point of it and not be silent.


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## Black Devil Dog (31/10/15)

butisitart said:


> mmmm.... (supplier name hidden by moderator)
> i been buying discounted weyermann pils from them for about 2 months.
> if that be so,,,,
> on the one side, i've just tasted a taster off my oldest brew from that, and mine is fine.
> ...


You might want to hit the edit tab and do some retracting


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## MHB (31/10/15)

Both in practice and in law there is a huge difference between "Use By" and "Best Before" they aren't the same and if you want to comment it would be worth while knowing the difference.
Different states have I believe slightly different interpretations, I think if you are selling a product past its Best Before date even at a discount, it would be good practice to inform your customers why it was being discounted and let them choose.
Mark


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## Mardoo (31/10/15)

MHB is right about the difference. 

Having formerly worked for a wine and beer retailer that routinely sold beer waaaay past its "best before" - and in fact got that beer for nearly nothing a month before said date and ten pallets at a time - customers should be notified that the product is past its "best before" so they can make the decision on their own. Even though they may have been dogs, the folks I worked for knew this. And sold hundreds of slabs regardless, I might add. It's up to the customer, but they should know.


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## Weizguy (31/10/15)

Futur said:


> I've recently just ordered my first sack of grain (weyermann pilsner) but upon looking at the sack the best before date is February this year. The grain was discounted but no mention was made on the website about the age of the product. I feel like I've been tricked into buying it.
> 
> Any suggestions on what to do next?
> 
> Will the grain be fine to use over the next 12 months?


No one seems to be saying what I feel is obvious:-
Contact the seller and tell them that you noticed the date and feel not entirely happy about it. Just be ready with an answer if they ask what you would like them to do about it.

Simple enough... and now you know why it was discounted. I hope the price was right. Yes, you can return it, or negotiate some more store credit or replacement (with perhaps a price adjustment).
MHB knows his consumer law quite well, as a recent former LHBS owner/operator.


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## Futur (31/10/15)

Thanks for the responses guys, it seems the general consensus is that the best before date should have been declared. Although the product was discounted having to assume it is expired shouldn't be required as there could be other reasons as to why it's discounted. 

After just speaking to the supplier it was an honest mistake that was made. I've had a very good response and have confidence the grain should be good for the next 12 months if stored correctly. If I have any problems with it they're happy so replace the remainder of the grain no questions asked. Much appreciated, you know who you are!


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## butisitart (31/10/15)

i'm pretty sure i got same grain. just tasted a taster off first batch, and tastes fine.


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## Ducatiboy stu (31/10/15)

If stored correctly in a cool dry place then grain will last a few years.

Moister is the big killer as it will start to breakdown ( convert ) when it absorbes moister.


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## jyo (31/10/15)

Futur said:


> After just speaking to the supplier


Personally, I reckon this should have been your first port of call, mate.


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## warra48 (31/10/15)

Really, all that fuss over a date based on some arbitrary logic devised by some government authority. Who's to say that a few mere months makes the malt a bag of garbage? I've used malts over 3 to 4 years from purchase, with no ill effects at all. Stored properly, malt will last for a good long time.

Is the malt in good condition for brewing? You got a bargain.

Has it gone slack? Contact the supplier as suggested, and arrange a refund or an exchange.


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## Ducatiboy stu (31/10/15)

Better still...send the sack to me...I will put it to good use regardless of the use by date


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## Weizguy (31/10/15)

Shame it's not wheat ,malt, if you're giving it away to all-comers.


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## Futur (31/10/15)

warra48 said:


> Really, all that fuss over a date based on some arbitrary logic devised by some government authority. Who's to say that a few mere months makes the malt a bag of garbage? I've used malts over 3 to 4 years from purchase, with no ill effects at all. Stored properly, malt will last for a good long time.
> 
> Is the malt in good condition for brewing? You got a bargain.
> 
> Has it gone slack? Contact the supplier as suggested, and arrange a refund or an exchange.


To be honest I was asking advice on what to do in this situation, being my first bag of grain I've ever bought. All other lots I've purchased have been pre cracked and vacuum sealed without any mention of an best before date. So not knowing any better I was just asking advice - it might be normal for all I knew to have grain past it's best before date, or not.


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## Mardoo (1/11/15)

warra48 said:


> Who's to say that a few mere months makes the malt a bag of garbage? I've used malts over 3 to 4 years from purchase, with no ill effects at all. Stored properly, malt will last for a good long time.


I wouldn't say bag of garbage, but I have noticed differences. A couple containers of malt I bought 3 years ago recently surfaced in a garage clean-up. They've been stored dry, airtight and under 23 degrees (as hot as my garage ever gets).

The malt had not gone slack, and was nearly as crisp as malts bought a month ago. In fact, the newly purchased malts were the same malts as the ones in the buckets, both type and brand, so it was a good chance to do a side by side taste test. In the old malt the major flavour elements were still effectively the same as the new malt, perhaps a bit more dull. However, the subtler flavours that make the malt "pop", at least in this tasting, were gone. You could say the wow factor was gone.

I haven't done a side-by-side brew comparison so can't say whether the "wow factor" would make any difference in a finished beer. That would probably be largely influenced by handling through the wort production and fermentation process. I would guess that, give a precise and thorough brewer, it would be noticeable. That's a guess though, and most of the brewers I know don't hit the level of technique I'm thinking of, including me.

It'll still make good beer. I still believe though that buying malt that's well over a year old should be up to the customer and sellers should make it clear that what's on sale is past its use by.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/11/15)




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