# Coopers Pale Ale Clone Hows It Look?



## AndrewQLD (1/3/05)

Hi all,

I am attempting a Coopers pale ale clone for a friend and was hoping to get some critique. Most of the information for this recipe has come from a couple of books I have, " Amber and Black" ( which has a photo of a whiteboard at the coopers brewery with grain listings and amounts for all of their brews and kits) and also " the ultimate beer encyclopedia). 
Also, I know the sugar content looks high, but after working the figures back from the final ABV it appears that about 18-20% of sugar is used by Coopers and this seems to be whta I have heard from other sources as well.

Any comments would be appreciated. 
Regards
Andrew

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Coopers Pale Ale Clone
Brewer: Andrew Clark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Australian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 28.84 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 7.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5Grain 79.6 % 
0.10 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EGrain 2.7 % 
0.02 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (157.6 EBC) Grain 0.5 % 
23.00 gm Pride Of Ringwood [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 26.5 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
0.65 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 17.2 % 
1 Pkgs Coopers Pale Ale (Coopers Bottle) [StartYeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 3.12 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 9.36 L of water at 73.2 C 65.6 C 60 min


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## Gough (1/3/05)

Hi Andrew,

I brewed an experimental Aust Ale style in January which leaned a little more toward the Sparkling Ale style. I used no sugar but mashed cool -64*- in the hope of extra attenuation and less body/higher alcohol etc. I'm very happy with the results, but without the sugar + extra malt it does still have more 'body' than the original. My only thought looking at your recipe is the high IBU, particularly for the lighter Pale Ale. I targeted 24 IBU with an OG of 1048 (all POR) and I reckon it is pretty close to the Sparkling in bitterness. Maybe over 26 IBU in the Pale Ale is a touch bitter? 

My ingredients:
4.60 kg JWM Export Pilsner (3.9 EBC) Grain 95.8 % 
0.15 kg JWM Wheat Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.1 % 
0.05 kg TF Crystal (145.8 EBC) Grain 1.0 % 
15.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [10.00%] (15 min) Hops 6.0 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Coopers Pale Ale Culture (Coopers) [Starter 1500 ml] Yeast-Ale 

OG 1048
FG 1005



Just a thought given my recent brew. Yours looks a more authentic recipe than mine, just thought the IBU's might be a bit high given my recent experience. 

Shawn.


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## AndrewQLD (1/3/05)

Hi Shawn,

According to the two books I have they both agree on 26 IBU as being the target for this beer, They also say that that the sparkling ale is 26 ibu's as well but with a higher ABV of 5.8% as opposed to 4.5% for the pale ale.

Your final gravity is excellent and what that beer is supposed to finish at according to Dr Cooper in an online interview that I read the excerpts of from the craftbrewers website.


Thanks for the comments.
Andrew


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## Gough (1/3/05)

Thanks for the info Andrew. I was aiming at a 1008-1010 finish bringing my beer in between the two Cooper's Ales but the yeast just kept on giving! 1005 is the lowest finish I've had since my really early K+K days. I guess now I can say I was definitely planning on getting exactly right all along    It isn't a bad beer so I'm happy... Good luck with yours,

Shawn.


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## Dunkel_Boy (1/3/05)

I actually thought the paley was a bit more simple that that... ie 100% Schooner pale ale malt, with POR used all the way through. Gravities you can figure out, and 26IBUs doesn't sound that far-fetched.
Sparkling ale definitely has some crystal in it, I guess you're only adding 20g, but seems a little strange still...

Oh, by the way, 64C sounds like a good mash temp.


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## Weizguy (1/3/05)

Gough said:


> It isn't a bad beer so I'm happy...
> [post="47355"][/post]​


Gotta agree, Gough. Not bad at all. A bit strong to be a quaffer, but you could sure knock back a couple of longnecks before your head spins round and your tatse buds become saturated with that maltiness.
A bit of sugar would have made it a bit thinner (and more Aussie), but that was prob not what U were aiming for.
BTW, good to see U make urself available to young Lucas next mash day. Mighty neighbourly. :super: 
Did U get to Paddy's last week. I'm still hoping to go there on Friday (Newcastle Show holiday), and maybe catch up with Gerard @ Paddy's. :beer: 
Seth out


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## Gough (2/3/05)

THanks Weiz. I was mainly experimenting to see if I could get something approaching the Coopers style without added sugar. Was aiming for an ABV between the Pale and the Sparkling (around 5% or thereabouts) and tried a cooler mash to keep it closish to style. Ended up with even higher attenuation than I expected and an ABV of 5.6% which is a bees dick off the Sparkling Ale in strength. I'm happy with the beer and will brew it again, but you're right, if I'm going to do a clone brew I'll need to use some sugar. That was the experimental bit - an Aussie style Ale without sugar - now there's a thought...  

Haven't heard from Lucas yet but he seems like a nice bloke. Hope he gives me a yell soon. Didn't make it to Paddy's. No money and too close to the new arrival to stray too far from home I think  Let me know how you get on - I'd love to be there... 

Shawn


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## Sean (2/3/05)

I'm currently drinking an approximate clone I made a couple of months ago which was simply Powells Pale Malt, a single infusion of Pride of Ringwood at the start of the boil and coopers yeast from a bottle. Possibly the simplest beer I've ever brewed, extreamly drinkable, and pretty close to style. A _small_ amount of sugar would get it a bit closer, but even without the Coopers yeast got it down to 1008.


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## Gough (2/3/05)

How is the Powells's Malt? Yet to use it but was thinking of giving some a go when my next bag runs out.

Shawn.


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## warrenlw63 (2/3/05)

Haven't tried it myself yet. However you certainly can't argue with the price. $35 for a 25kg bag.

Good value IMO.  

Warren -


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## SteveSA (2/3/05)

Hi Andrew

In my spare time I've been playing with a recipe lately too for CPA. FWIW your's and mine are very similar - so I think you're around the mark
Mine is a touch darker (+2 EBC), has a tiny bit more crystal, wheat and sugar. But the differences are minimal. I agree with 26 IBUs.

I have left my usual whirlfloc addition out though... just to cloud it up out of the tap.

Regards
Steve


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## AndrewQLD (2/3/05)

Steve,
How long before you taste the CPA, Have you brewed it yet? and if so are you happy with it.

Sean,
From what I have read the coopers yeast is extremely Attenuative I am hoping to get this beer down as low as 1.005 if possible to match the original.

Dunkelboy,
CPA definately has a very small amount of crystal, according to the Coopers white board listing, the amounts for a 46 hl brew are:
4600 pale malt, 40 crystal and 200 wheat, 
Regards
Andrew


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## mje1980 (2/3/05)

4600 pale malt
40 crystal
200 wheat

What do these numbers refer to???, could somebody please explain??? tah, i thought it may be kilos, but is this true??


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## warrenlw63 (2/3/05)

I reckon if you strip a few zeros it's pretty close to what you'd want for your average 23 litre batch. Sounds close enough to a Coopers PA to me.

4.6kg pale
40g crystal (probably light)
200g wheat

Warren -


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## AndrewQLD (2/3/05)

That is kilo weights. Don't forget that at that stage they were brew 46 hl which is 46000 lt of beer.


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## Gough (2/3/05)

Oh well, my guesses as to quantities weren't too far off then by the sounds of it. 10 grams more crystal in mine and 50 grams less wheat. I get 70% efficiency and ended up with a beer that is very drinkable, quite similar to the Sparkling Ale in colour and overall flavour, but with a little more body and malt sweetness. Was a fair way from the lighter bodied, drier, lower alcohol Pale Ale though. The sugar obviously makes a major difference.

Thanks again for the info Andrew. I'll have to keep an eye out for those books you referred to. I've been really getting a lot out of the Daniels 'Designing Great Beers' lately - a really comprehensive, well researched read. Gotta love this hobby...

Shawn.


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## Sean (2/3/05)

Gough said:


> How is the Powells's Malt? Yet to use it but was thinking of giving some a go when my next bag runs out.
> 
> Shawn.
> [post="47445"][/post]​


There were a few bits of stalk in it (not much), which had me slightly concerned, but I've had no problems using it and made some terrific beer. I don't get too paranoid about efficiency so I can't comment from that perspective, but IMHO it's close to the English floor malted malt (Tucker's) that I'm used to using (much closer than Joe Whites) and far cheaper than Fawcetts, so I can't see myself using anything else for the foreseeable future.


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## SteveSA (3/3/05)

Hi Andrew

I haven't brewed it yet but intend getting to it next weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

Steve


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## AndrewQLD (5/4/05)

Hi Guys,

Well I finally cracked the keg of Coopers Pale Ale Clone that I posted the recipe for at the beginning of this thread, and I have to say what a graet beer :beer: .
Crisp and dry with a nice subdued malt flavour, no hop flavour or aroma to speak of, but a nice bitter finish that lingers in the mouth.
I carbonated this beer to 90 kpa so it is nice and bubbly (as it should be) and leaves a nice tingle on the tongue.
What suprised me the most was the great head that laces the glass right to the end, all this with 20% sugar and a final gravity of 1.005.
I had to use a Dry English Ale liquid yeast culture because my coopers starter did not kick on so flavour is not as authentic as one would hope, but the colour and bitterness is spot on.
This brew is now going to be one of the standard brews in the house as everyone loved it and it is easy to knock back quite a few :blink: .

I will try to culture another starter from a commercial bottle to see the difference, but I am more than happy with this drop  .

Cheers
andrew


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## Dunkel_Boy (5/4/05)

Hey, great to hear!
Sounds tempting.


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## TidalPete (22/4/05)

G'day Andrew & Gough,

I'm thinking of having a go at a Cooper's clone as I manage to make up 8 Coopers yeasts out of a bottle of Sparkling Ale. Are the hops in your recipes cones or pellets??? :unsure: :unsure:


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## AndrewQLD (22/4/05)

Hi Tidalpete,

I used flowers in my clone, but pellets or plugs would be fine, just make sure you IBU to 26.
Sadly my Coopers clone has evaporated  and I heard the dreaded psssst just yesterday. Oh well another excuse to brew  .

Regards
Andrew


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## SteveSA (22/4/05)

Well mine has been in the bottle for around 4 weeks now and is evaporating pretty quickly too. Colour is pale straw and mouthfeel is light with a good dry finish.

Hop bitterness is a touch high perhaps. I was aiming for 25IBU but it seems higher. This could be due to harshness from POR though or it may be that my hop utilisation needs to be increased (something I have suspected for a while). To me seems around 30 IBUs. Next time I'll use half POR and half Hallertau I think.

A major fault though is despite being fermented at a controlled 20C there is a HUGE lolly banana ester and flavour that wasn't evident in the starter. It's been there from the start of fermentation and hasn't dissipated at all. SWMBO says to pass it off as fruit beer <_< 

It was the first time I had cultured from a Coopers bottle. Has anyone else encountered this?

Choccys & Bananas
Steve


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## Gough (22/4/05)

I used Pellets in mine Tidalpete. Like Andrew said it wouldn't make a major difference either way, just keep your hopping relatively low - 26 IBU is a good target - and don't go for too much of a 'flavour' addition late in the boil. Simple is good with this style I reckon, and the yeast contributes a lot of the flavour. 18 is a good temp to ferment at. If you are mashing then a mash temp at the cooler end is a good idea, especially if you aren't adding sugar.

Good luck,

Shawn.


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## Darren (22/4/05)

A major fault though is despite being fermented at a controlled 20C there is a HUGE lolly banana ester and flavour that wasn't evident in the starter. It's been there from the start of fermentation and hasn't dissipated at all. SWMBO says to pass it off as fruit beer <_< 

It was the first time I had cultured from a Coopers bottle. Has anyone else encountered this?


Howdy Steve,
It is not suprising that you got banana. Coopers ale yeast is filtered out of the beer before bottling. Some may get through to the bottle but most is a bottling strain of yeast, not the primary ferment strain.
Fire away!


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## RobW (22/4/05)

SteveSA said:


> A major fault though is despite being fermented at a controlled 20C there is a HUGE lolly banana ester and flavour that wasn't evident in the starter. It's been there from the start of fermentation and hasn't dissipated at all. SWMBO says to pass it off as fruit beer <_<
> 
> It was the first time I had cultured from a Coopers bottle. Has anyone else encountered this?
> 
> ...



Yep. Same thing. In fact mine fermented at 22C so may have been even more in your face. It settled down after a month or so & is drinking OK now (what's left that is) although the hint of banana is still there. Doesn't taste anything like a Coopers though.


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## warrenlw63 (22/4/05)

Agree and disagree,

Steve, if you ferment it at 15-17 it gives some nice, (albeit prominent) esters. I've recultured it quite a few times when I'm too lousy to buy a smackpack. I've found that higher than this leaves the beer a little too fruity and it's not to everybody's tastes.

Darren, not sure if they're the same strain (ferment and bottling). I must agree though that I've never been able to capture the exact profile of CSA when trying to clone it which would explain your theory.

All that said the yeast makes pretty versatile range of beers.

Warren -


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## locost (22/4/05)

My understanding is that Coopers do not use a bottling strain. Word has it that Cooper's centrifuge and krausen their beers just before bottling. that said, I always got banana beer using Cooper's yeast and gave up on it for that very reason.


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## AndrewQLD (22/4/05)

> My understanding is that Coopers do not use a bottling strain. Word has it that Cooper's centrifuge and krausen their beers just before bottling. that said, I always got banana beer using Cooper's yeast and gave up on it for that very reason.



Well in that case I am glad my attempt at making a starter from the CPA failed  . Using a white labs culture I ended up with a pretty close approximation to the original but no fruitiness to speak of, very clean and dry.

Andrew


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## Gough (22/4/05)

Mine had the Coopers yeast profile as per the real thing, but no 'banana' flavours or excessive fruitiness. Was definitely a little maltier on the finish than the Sparkling, but not overwhelmingly so. It was fermented at 18 in my fridge and had a 5 day secondary at the same temp before a 7 day cc to clean it up a little. No bananas though...

Shawn.


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## Darren (22/4/05)

A few years ago a Coopers yeast strain came into a lab where I worked. This strain was kept under lock and key at all times. 
Seems quite pedantic for a company that apparently bottles with the primary strain.


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## Gout (22/4/05)

i am just drinking my coopers ale wanna be clone and i used the coopers ale yeast, it has floc'ed out really well to clean the beer and i was drinking it the day i kegged 

no bananna flavours and its rather cleanish. Similar flavour to coopers althouh mine finished more like 1011FG so more body, malt and hops... however i found the yeast fine

I am building (trying) up another 2 stubbies to do another batch. last time i tried i used 1099 and it was also great


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## PeterS (22/4/05)

Alien boy said:


> Has anybody else noticed that a recultured coopers yeast produces strong diacetyl in the early stages that gradually disappears at about 4 week in bottle?
> 
> I ve had pale ale on tap and in bottle that had the same diacetyl flavour on separate occasions.I put it down to beer released too early at busy times in the market.
> 
> ...



As it so happens, earlier today I was reading an article about diacetyl on the web. Don't ask me where for I forgotten it already. In essence I learned that diacetyl is a natural bi product of yeast activity. The amount produced is related to the number of active yeast in solution at any one time. Therefore, because you made a starter from a Coopers Bottle, the active yeast produced could vary from one batch to the next. I am thinking of underpitching and overpitching here. Fermentation temperatures also plays a big part here as yeast reproduce more rapidly at higher temperatures, thereby becoming more active and finishing their job at a faster pace also introducing often unwanted bi products.

That is my understanding of what I read and you seemed to have confirmed that.

Cheers. :beer:


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## pint of lager (22/4/05)

Brewing Techniques- Diacetyl article

Some yeasts create more diacetyl than others. The amount created is temperature dependant. Some yeasts are well known to remove diacetyl.


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## PeterS (22/4/05)

pint of lager said:


> Brewing Techniques- Diacetyl article
> 
> Some yeasts create more diacetyl than others. The amount created is temperature dependant. Some yeasts are well known to remove diacetyl.
> [post="55936"][/post]​



Thanks Pint of Lager. That was the article all right. I was just reciting what I read or more to the point, my impressions of what I thought I read after a pint or so.

Cheers.
:beer:


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## Jye (11/9/05)

Yesterday I did Andrews clone of CPA but I used pilsner instead of pale malt since the local HBS was fresh out. What sort of change should I expect from this? From what I have read they are similar and I am new to AG so I not mind a little bit of experimenting  

Cheers
Jye :beer:


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## AndrewQLD (11/9/05)

Jye said:


> Yesterday I did Andrews clone of CPA but I used pilsner instead of pale malt since the local HBS was fresh out. What sort of change should I expect from this? From what I have read they are similar and I am new to AG so I not mind a little bit of experimenting
> 
> Cheers
> Jye :beer:
> [post="76422"][/post]​



Jye,
I have made that recipe with pilsner as well as ale malt, and it turned out fine, the one thing I can suggest is to rack off the yeast when fermentation has finished and if possible cold condition for as long as possible up to six weeks and the beer will be crystal clear and very crisp.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Kai (11/9/05)

Alien boy said:


> Has anybody else noticed that a recultured coopers yeast produces strong diacetyl in the early stages that gradually disappears at about 4 week in bottle?



Sorry for the delayed response but yes, I have noticed that in past. I would get nice clean beer in the secondary, then once bottled it would develop really strong diacetyl flavour that would disappear a few weeks later. I think that since I started doing bigger starters (1.5L as opposed to 700mL) the problem went away, but I'm not 100% sure yet.


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## Jye (11/9/05)

Cheers Andrew, I was think about a week in the primary, week in the secondary and then CC for about 2 weeks or until a keg is empty.


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## jimmysuperlative (15/10/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am attempting a Coopers pale ale clone for a friend and was hoping to get some critique. Most of the information for this recipe has come from a couple of books I have, " Amber and Black" ( which has a photo of a whiteboard at the coopers brewery with grain listings and amounts for all of their brews and kits) and also " the ultimate beer encyclopedia).
> Also, I know the sugar content looks high, but after working the figures back from the final ABV it appears that about 18-20% of sugar is used by Coopers and this seems to be whta I have heard from other sources as well.
> ...



Andrew, I'm thinking about a CPA for my next BIAB ...found this in my searching, and I notice on your signature you've got one in the fermenter at the moment.

Any changes to the recipe as listed above? What yeast are you pitching, re-cultured or fresh?
If you have any other tips or advice I'd appreciate them too  

Cheers


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## AndrewQLD (15/10/06)

Hi Justin,
sorry for the delay in the reply, I read your post on the way out the door to a BBQ and have just walked in now.
Definately use the coopers pale ale yeast from the bottle, 30 grams of DARK CRYSTAL and ferment 18-20c. Make a nice big starter to kick the brew off nice and fast.
That's about it, good luck.


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## jimmysuperlative (15/10/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Hi Justin,
> sorry for the delay in the reply, I read your post on the way out the door to a BBQ and have just walked in now.
> Definately use the coopers pale ale yeast from the bottle, 30 grams of DARK CRYSTAL and ferment 18-20c. Make a nice big starter to kick the brew off nice and fast.
> That's about it, good luck.




Many thanks, Andrew ...


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## tangent (16/10/06)

i've been hearing that 20C is running hot, which may be where the esters are coming from. it'd be interesting to make the same beer again and ferment at 18C. there's supposedly quite a bit of difference in ester production with only 2C difference.


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## James Squire (16/10/06)

I've heard the same tangent. 

Im currently drinking a CPA clone using pretty close to this exact recipe from AndrewQLD (touch more pale, touch less sugar). I fermented this one at a controlled 20C and it is very much a banana beer! Full of esters! Very nice and clean beer but just crazy banana flavours!

I plan to brew the same recipe soon and as you said, ferment it at 18C to taste the differences. I imagine there's gonna have to be a big difference if my current estery beer is anything to go off! 

Cheers,

JS


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## therook (16/10/06)

JS,

how do you controll your ferment at 18c

rook


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## AndrewQLD (16/10/06)

Sadly that is one of the downfalls of using the Coopers strain from the bottles, I have only had one brew with the banana profile you describe all the rest have been fine. I wonder if it could have something to do with the handling of the bottles by the retailers, perhaps the yeast has mutated slightly if the bottles have not been handled properly??
Either way perhaps it would be better to play it safe and ferment 18c.
I have made this recipe using WLP007 dry english ale yeast and while the beer was very clean the flavour was extremely bland, this is one beer that is definately defined by the yeast. And given the light grain bill and low hopping it is suseptable to off flavours/aromas.


EDIT: Oh and I wonder if controling the temp of your starter might be a good idea for this brew as well, try to keep it at 18c as well.

Cheers
Andrew


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## warrenlw63 (16/10/06)

I'm inclined to agree with Andrew. I've used this yeast quite frequently for the last 8 years and have never encountered the banana ester (it usually has the standard CSA type character). I've fermented at temps between 20 and as low as 15. These days I always use it around the 16 degree mark and it's very well behaved. IMO it can even ferment lower if you're careful and use a big starter. 

Perhaps encountering the banana ester could be due to the starter being too warm as Andrew said or even pitching too warm and bringing the temp down?

I've always found with most yeasts for that matter my beers have improved out of sight since pitching at fermentation temps or a couple of degrees lower and letting the whole thing warm up. Seems to to save runaway ferments and foaming out the airlock too.  

Hope this helps.

Warren -


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## tangent (16/10/06)

this is an interesting thread 
the last english style beer i did, i made a starter from 6 stubbies of fresh pale (oh the hardships of brewing) 
it took a while to get going and just as it was taking off i added a packet of dry windsor. i know it attenuates poorly but i figured the CPA yeast would have an easier time at work and finish off the last bits the windsor couldn't handle. it fermented at around 17C and made a nice beer. one of the best in the style i've made.


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## James Squire (16/10/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Oh and I wonder if controling the temp of your starter might be a good idea for this brew as well, try to keep it at 18c as well.






warrenlw63 said:


> Perhaps encountering the banana ester could be due to the starter being too warm as Andrew said or even pitching too warm and bringing the temp down?



Could be on the money too. Perhaps the starters temp raised higher into the twenties... I can't remember if I had that starter insulated or not. It was pitched at ferment temp but the starter could have (possibly?) gotten warm. Otherwise it could be as Andrew says, could be to do with handling at the retailer. Speaking of which, I did notice on the last commercial CPA I drank that when it warms a touch the banana esters really came out. Anyone else know what I mean? Maybe a fresh culture is in order, perhaps I need to drink some more! h34r:  

Sorry Rook, missed your post! I have an insulated cupboard that is temperature switched to heat or cool. Very easily achieved by using a fridge with a light globe and a couple of temp controllers. 

Cheers for the tips guys. 

JS


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## jimmysuperlative (16/10/06)

Yes, good discussion lads ...I've been taking notes and will aim my ferment temps around the 16-18c mark.

I'm looking forward to making this beer!


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## DJR (16/10/06)

James Squire said:


> I did notice on the last commercial CPA I drank that when it warms a touch the banana esters really came out. Anyone else know what I mean? Maybe a fresh culture is in order, perhaps I need to drink some more! h34r:



Cooper's PA and SA have to be the most inconsistent flavour profile beers in Oz unfortunately, i love it when they have banana ester but sadly every time i try to get one that specifically has banana i end up with the same bland-o boring slightly wheaty Coopers taste. Nice and all but i think it is a lot better when you get a crapload of ester in it. Sometimes on tap the CSA gets it, but it's just so inconsistent. Is it a mixed strain, as that might explain a lot.

Still, it is one of the cheapest ways to make good beer, reculturing cooper's yeast, and as a benefit you get to drink some decent beer along with the yeast :beerbang:


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## tangent (16/10/06)

i think the magic in CPA is the fact that it's primed with wort so it's got a blast of fresh hops and sweet malt. once it ferments out in bottle conditioning, some of that magic is gone and it's a dryer slightly less fresh-hop beer. 
that's not even mentioning the flavours attached to the yeast.
i reckon this beer would be a cracker fresh in the keg!


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