# Adverse Reaction To Home Brew



## time01 (9/1/12)

afternoon a friend of mine has drank my home brew twice now, and had the same reaction the following day;

The symptoms are swollen, puffy face, in particular the cheeks and around the eyes, and a red rash over the torso. I dont have any nausea or anything, just those physical reactions. A lot of people who have reactions suffer breath shortness etc., but mine is just the swelling and rash. The swelling subsides over about 3 day period.

this is for both kit/extract brews as well as FWK brews.

has anyone else encounted this? the only thing i could think is the powered yeast i use perhaps as opposed to liquid yeast?

he has drank beer all his life and never had the reaction so im at a loss to work out why?


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## petesbrew (9/1/12)

time01 said:


> afternoon a friend of mine has drank my home brew twice now, and had the same reaction the following day;
> 
> The symptoms are swollen, puffy face, in particular the cheeks and around the eyes, and a red rash over the torso. I dont have any nausea or anything, just those physical reactions. A lot of people who have reactions suffer breath shortness etc., but mine is just the swelling and rash. The swelling subsides over about 3 day period.
> 
> ...


Um, are you sure your beer's not infected in some way? Just saying...


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## jyo (9/1/12)

Assuming you rinse all cleaners/chemicals really well (apart from no-rinse sanitisers)?


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## Amber Fluid (9/1/12)

Obviously he has an allergy to something you use in the brew or cleaning regime.

My kid has the same type of reaction if he touches milk. We found this out when he ate a block of soap that was made with goats milk!


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## Batz (9/1/12)

Could be a reaction to yeast perhaps ?
You can get brewers yeast tablets at health shops but that may spin him out completely


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## loikar (9/1/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> We found this out when he ate a block of soap that was made with goats milk!



Wait! Whaaaa???


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## Batz (9/1/12)

Batz said:


> Could be a reaction to yeast perhaps ?
> You can get brewers yeast tablets at health shops but that may spin him out completely




How does he go with Cooper Pale or Sparkling ?


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## cam89brewer (9/1/12)

you don't use sodium metabisulphite or anything containing it do you ? It is a common one that also causes shortness of breathe and some of the other symptoms and is used in wines as a preservative and is in the coopers steriliser I am pretty certain..


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## cam89brewer (9/1/12)

you don't use sodium metabisulphite or anything containing it do you ? It is a common one that also causes shortness of breathe and some of the other symptoms and is used in wines as a preservative and is in the coopers steriliser I am pretty certain..


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## fraser_john (9/1/12)

Do you use a sulphite based sanitiser? If so, switch to star-san.

Sounds very similar to sulphur allergy to me, having just had the same symptoms from a sulphur based medication. Is the rash itchy?


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## staggalee (9/1/12)

time01 said:


> afternoon a friend of mine has drank my home brew twice now, and had the same reaction the following day;
> 
> The symptoms are swollen, puffy face, in particular the cheeks and around the eyes, and a red rash over the torso. I dont have any nausea or anything, just those physical reactions. A lot of people who have reactions suffer breath shortness etc., but mine is just the swelling and rash. The swelling subsides over about 3 day period.
> 
> ...



Did you use any extra hops in the brew? I have recently discovered I`m allergic to whatever hops are in Cascade light, never had it with any other home or commercial beer.
Just a sniff of the hops sends my eyes watering and itching for a couple of hours


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## staggalee (9/1/12)

Amber Fluid said:


> Obviously he has an allergy to something you use in the brew or cleaning regime.
> 
> My kid has the same type of reaction if he touches milk. We found this out when he ate a block of soap that was made with goats milk!



Now THAT is funny :lol: 
Sorry if it wasn`t meant to be.


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## time01 (9/1/12)

thanks for the replies.

i clean everything thoroughly, and no one else has had a reaction.

my mate has drank lots of various beers all his life without reaction. 

id say those that have suggested the cleaning products i have used are too blame, i will find out what thye are and report back.


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## bum (9/1/12)

time01 said:


> id say those that have suggested the cleaning products i have used are too blame


Seems a little unfair to me.


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## Greg.L (9/1/12)

cambrew said:


> you don't use sodium metabisulphite or anything containing it do you ? It is a common one that also causes shortness of breathe and some of the other symptoms and is used in wines as a preservative and is in the coopers steriliser I am pretty certain..



Sulphites occur in wine naturally and are common in other foods, specially onions. It's a misconcepton that sulphites cause allergies.

Did the person take some antihistames? If antihistamines fix the reaction then it's definitely an allergy. My Guess would be a cleaning product.


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## stux (9/1/12)

time01 said:


> thanks for the replies.
> 
> i clean everything thoroughly, and no one else has had a reaction.
> 
> ...



Also, any additives you've added, ie finings

But if you just make fresh wort kits with yeast, then it is either a beer allergy, some people are allergic to hops. Or its the cleaning products.

What are you cleaning with? what are you sanitizing with?

Then again, if it is a hop matter allergy... a lot of the crystal clear aussie beers wouldn't have much in the way of hop matter (if they ever did!)

edit: I wonder if its fusel alcohols and the like... do you use temperature control


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## bowie in space (9/1/12)

bum said:


> Seems a little unfair to me.




:lol:


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## staggalee (9/1/12)

bum said:


> Seems a little unfair to me.


They were nowhere near the place.
But I spose someone has to wear it


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## time01 (10/1/12)

righto, the cleaning agent i use for fermenters is sodium metabisuphite.
the keg cleaning agent i use contains sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate.

further feedback from my mate is;

"The rash isnt really that itchy. Its very faint- the bigger symptom that you notice is the swollen face as it gives me somewhat of a chipmunk look with the puffy cheeks."

yes i do use temp control.

i guess its one of the cleaning agents, but which one?


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## seravitae (10/1/12)

You could try an isolation/scratch test.

Make up dilute solutions of everything you use (VERY DILUTE) and gently scratch the skin with each item, see if you get a histamine response.

This is one thing doctors try to find allergies.


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## felten (10/1/12)

time01 said:


> righto, the cleaning agent i use for fermenters is sodium metabisuphite.
> the keg cleaning agent i use contains sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate.
> 
> i guess its one of the cleaning agents, but which one?[/size]



Google for sulfite allergy and have a look, it seems fairly common.


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## HBHB (10/1/12)

sera said:


> You could try an isolation/scratch test.
> 
> Make up dilute solutions of everything you use (VERY DILUTE) and gently scratch the skin with each item, see if you get a histamine response.
> 
> This is one thing doctors try to find allergies.




Dare i suggest he go to his GP for a referral to an immunologist instead of playing with fire with his health. Any allergy can escalate into a full blown anaphylactic shock scenario and cost someone their life in just a few minutes. 

It might be a bit hard to explain at the coroners inquest that the bloke from the local home brew shop said it'd be ok to do a transdermal scratch/swab test to see if he'd swell up like a balloon and die from it.

Repeated exposure to potential allergens to determine what he reacts to can most certainly lead to some serious harm being caused.

:blink: 

End rant.

:icon_drunk: 
Martin


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## petesbrew (10/1/12)

HBHB said:


> Dare i suggest he go to his GP for a referral to an immunologist instead of playing with fire with his health. Any allergy can escalate into a full blown anaphylactic shock scenario and cost someone their life in just a few minutes.
> 
> It might be a bit hard to explain at the coroners inquest that the bloke from the local home brew shop said it'd be ok to do a transdermal scratch/swab test to see if he'd swell up like a balloon and die from it.
> 
> ...


A GP? How Dare you. We're brewers. We know what we're talking about.
I mean, my GP asked me if I use crown lager bottles for bottling. Honestly what a noob.

Get that dilute solution brewing and tell us how your guinea pig mate fares with the results.


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## mmmyummybeer (10/1/12)

Sounds like a good excuse to switch to Star San. Its definitely lots nicer to use.


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## QldKev (10/1/12)

Wonder if I've got an allergy to beer too? 

After a big night on the brew I often feel sick, and sometimes I even vomit. It even effects my central nervous system as I find it hard walking home afterwards. Then the next day I feel really off and have a bad headace.


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## drsmurto (10/1/12)

QldKev said:


> Wonder if I've got an allergy to beer too?
> 
> After a big night on the brew I often feel sick, and sometimes I even vomit. It even effects my central nervous system as I find it hard walking home afterwards. Then the next day I feel really off and have a bad headace.



:beerbang: 

And yet we dust ourselves off and pour another pint shortly after the symptons subside!

Re: sulphite allergy - Very few people have an allergy to sulphites, many of the people who say they do haven't ever had it confirmed. Sulphites are used in so many packaged goods, the most common being dried fruits. Next time you are reading a lable look for E220-228. All of these are sulphites.

When you add yeast to a sugar solution (wort, fruit juices) the yeast uses nutrients in the wort/fruit juice to build up its amino acid reserves. Part of this cycle involves the production of sulphite.

So sulphite occurs naturally in all beverages fermented using saccharomyces cerevisiae (ie. beer, wine, cider).

That said, using potassium metabisulphite is going to increase the sulphite level by a very large amount.


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## Greg.L (10/1/12)

Sounds to me like your mate is having you on. If he was really getting swelling around the face that is potentially a life threatening situation. Its not uncommon for people to make jokes about homebrew.


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## time01 (10/1/12)

whats star san? can this be used to clean kegs and fermenters?

his not having me on, ive seen the results, provided aummunition for lots of jokes.


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## Malted (10/1/12)

time01 said:


> whats star san? can this be used to clean kegs and fermenters?



It is a no rinse, acid based, foaming, sanitiser, look here for example and more details:
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4332


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## time01 (10/1/12)

thanks malted.

will road test this with my mate in a a month or so.

thanks to everyone for their feedback.


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## Wimmig (10/1/12)

Swelling of the face / puffy face / redness of throat etc are serious medical conditions. The end of the line is where redness etc (very non medical descip.) continue into the airways, restricting air, closing the airways and causing death.

If your mate hasn't already, an isolated alergy test is needed to properly identify the cause. GP ref. for that. I am shocked by the number of children parents these days omit from this critical process. 


On the light sight....it's plausable that SMB is a possible cause for this increased reaction. As above, if you are not already using starsan, start using it for steri. 

Use of starsan for steri, products like PBW and the like for cleaning (or saniclean? from 5 star) are the go. A bottle of starsan, used within needed line amounts will last ages. And more, is not better.


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## GalBrew (11/1/12)

Do you use isinglass for finings? It comes from fish bladders and if your mate has an allergy to fish he will certinally be allergic to isinglass. My brother can't even go near a brew with that stuff in it.


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## Nick JD (11/1/12)

AdamFromWH said:


> Do you use isinglass for finings? It comes from fish bladders and if your mate has an allergy to fish he will certinally be allergic to isinglass. My brother can't even go near a brew with that stuff in it.



We have a winner.


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## time01 (30/5/12)

finally got some starsan and will use it next time.

what does everyone use to clean stubbies? been brewing with kegs for the last yr or so and want to make some stubbies in case i run out of beer in kegs.


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## wynnum1 (30/5/12)

sodium percarbonate napisan 24 hours soaks removes labels then starsan just before bottling.


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## stux (30/5/12)

I use pbw for all cleaning and starsan for all sanitizing. 

Every now and again I hit everything with iodophor to mix it up a bit


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## evildrakey (30/5/12)

I'm one of those allergic to Sodium Metabisulphite...

I'm fine for the most part with Sulphites in Wine and dried fruit (dried apricots being an exception).
The last time I Used Sodium Met to sterilize bottles, I passed out on the bathroom floor...

I use Sodium Percarbonate to clean, and Starsan to sterilize (flood fill with normal concentration where possible), or spray bottle with double concentration of starsan where I cant flood fill...


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## drsmurto (30/5/12)

evildrakey said:


> I'm one of those allergic to Sodium Metabisulphite...
> 
> I'm fine for the most part with Sulphites in Wine and dried fruit (dried apricots being an exception).
> The last time I Used Sodium Met to sterilize bottles, I passed out on the bathroom floor...
> ...



If you are allergic to sodium metabisulphite you would not be able to drink wine or eat dried fruit without an adverse reaction. Very few people are diagnosed with a sulphite allergy, the vast majority who claim it (as opposed to those who have been tested and given positive results) drink wine and blame the sulphites when there are 1000s of other chemicals in wine.

Large amounts of SO2 produced when using sodium metabisluphite in a small area can knock out anyone as it will displace the O2 in the air. That is not an allergic reaction, merely a lack of O2.


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## evildrakey (30/5/12)

DrSmurto said:


> If you are allergic to sodium metabisulphite you would not be able to drink wine or eat dried fruit without an adverse reaction. Very few people are diagnosed with a sulphite allergy, the vast majority who claim it (as opposed to those who have been tested and given positive results) drink wine and blame the sulphites when there are 1000s of other chemicals in wine.
> 
> Large amounts of SO2 produced when using sodium metabisluphite in a small area can knock out anyone as it will displace the O2 in the air. That is not an allergic reaction, merely a lack of O2.



The let us call it an intolerance then... I'm fine with most wines, fruit's a bit iffy, turkish apricots are sometimes inconsistant with the amount of sulphites used. I had a reaction at work (an apricot muesli bar bought from the Asthma association charity box - irony is not lost on me) where I had enough trouble breathing that they almost called a ambulance...

Any direct contact with Sodium Met powder used as a sterilizer is a complete no-no for me, but I can tolerate smallish amounts - I just feel slightly breathless and the head feels wobbly and weird like I've got a migraine coming...

However - I do have an Allergy to Silicone Sex Lubricants - causes Pulmonary Edema and I end up in hospital for a few days...


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## JDW81 (30/5/12)

evildrakey said:


> The let us call it an intolerance then... I'm fine with most wines, fruit's a bit iffy, turkish apricots are sometimes inconsistant with the amount of sulphites used. I had a reaction at work (an apricot muesli bar bought from the Asthma association charity box - irony is not lost on me) where I had enough trouble breathing that they almost called a ambulance...
> 
> Any direct contact with Sodium Met powder used as a sterilizer is a complete no-no for me, but I can tolerate smallish amounts - I just feel slightly breathless and the head feels wobbly and weird like I've got a migraine coming...
> 
> However - I do have an Allergy to Silicone Sex Lubricants - causes Pulmonary Edema and I end up in hospital for a few days...



A common misconception is that an allergy and an intolerance are the same thing. While they may have similar physiology, an intolerance within an individual is much more of a spectrum condition, with the ingested amount dictating the level of adverse reaction. A small amount may not induce any reaction, where a large dose will. An intolerance is also not IgE mediated (part of an immune response, which I don't have the time to go into here), and usually isn't accompanied by the atopic triad of symptoms.

An allergy is not dose dependent, with even the smallest trace of allergen leading to a much wider systemic response (anaphylaxis in severe reactions). Allergies are IgE mediated, which is why the have the resulting symptoms.

They are however, both hypersensitivity reactions.


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## bignath (30/5/12)

a mate of mine reacts in the same way OP described, but only with spirits.

Get him on the beer and he's fine all night. But then he gets a bit bored with beer, and ends up switching to scotch, vodka, bourbon, rum etc... and his face looks like he's spent a week in the desert with sunburn. No other physical symptons or any sickness, just a massive "general redness" around the face and neck.

He hates it (obviously).

The next morning he's good to go again.


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