# BIAB mashing, water to grain ratio?



## seehuusen (23/4/14)

Hey guys,

I read through this tutorial: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/55617-step-by-step-biab-lcba-clone/
In it, the OP uses about 4KG of grain, steeped 14L of water, plus 4L for the sparge. At the end he adjusts the OG to his desired OG by adding a bit of water.

I'm new to BIAB, and wanted to ask if the amount of litres used to mash matters? and if so in what way it matters?
Is there a sweet spot, did I read somewhere of about 3L of water per Kg of grain?

Thanks in advance,
Martin


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## HBHB (23/4/14)

Keep it simple. that's the whole point of BIAB. The technique was developed to provide a simple way to mash at full volume as needed.

If however, your vessel can't take the whole volume of water needed plus the grains, ie 40L Vessel, 5kg grains and 39L of water needed, then add in somewhere around 3L of water per kg of grain and after the mash stage, simply top up to full pre-boil volume as calculated by your brewing software.

Assume 1L of water loss to the grains after draining.

Once you've boiled and chilled, then it's simply a case of adjust your volume to meet your required gravity if you're slightly under the volume.

Hope this makes sense.

That said, if you took 100 BIAB brewers, they'll come up with about 80 different ways to achieve the same end result. None are necessarily wrong.


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## seehuusen (23/4/14)

thank you very much for the explanation, makes perfect sense :icon_cheers:


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## seamad (23/4/14)

Water to grain ratios really apply to traditional mashing techniques. The easiest way to do BIAB is full volume mashing, ie , no sparging.
Get yourself Brewmate or some other software and go from there.
If you are looking at producing a "normal " batch size of @ 20L then you will need a 40 L pot. I started out with a Big W 19L pot ( as many have ) and just produced a 12L ish or so batch. With some mucking @ with sparging you can produce full batchs from a 19L pot, google NickJD $20 method on this website.
There is also another calcuator on the BIAB forum which is very easy to use.
cheers
sean


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## carpedaym (23/4/14)

HBHB said:


> Assume 1L of water loss to the grains after draining.


I believe HBHB means 1L of water loss *per kg of grain*.


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## seehuusen (23/4/14)

seamad said:


> ...Get yourself Brewmate or some other software and go from there...There is also another calcuator on the BIAB forum which is very easy to use...


Thanks Sean, I had BrewMate already, but signed up to the BIAB site, will have a read of some of their articles/ threads 

This was also a question of what is more efficient?
e.g. is it better to mash with less water, at say 3L/1kg or full amount required for fermenter plus what is lost during the boil?

Cheers
Martin


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## HBHB (23/4/14)

carpedaym said:


> I believe HBHB means 1L of water loss *per kg of grain*.


Oops....correct.


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## mxd (23/4/14)

seehuusen said:


> Thanks Sean, I had BrewMate already, but signed up to the BIAB site, will have a read of some of their articles/ threads
> 
> This was also a question of what is more efficient?
> e.g. is it better to mash with less water, at say 3L/1kg or full amount required for fermenter plus what is lost during the boil?
> ...


BIAB is "generally" a no sparge method, some people sparge as there pot isn't big enough, some sparge as it's gets a better efficiency. IMHO if your pot is big enough start with no sparge, learn the system then play


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## stm (23/4/14)

seehuusen said:


> Thanks Sean, I had BrewMate already, but signed up to the BIAB site, will have a read of some of their articles/ threads
> 
> This was also a question of what is more efficient?
> e.g. is it better to mash with less water, at say 3L/1kg or full amount required for fermenter plus what is lost during the boil?
> ...


The simplest and easiest is to go full volume. You may get slightly higher efficiency by sparging etc, but then again you might not (if, for example, you just did a full volume mash for 90 minutes and then stirred while ramping up for the mash out VERSUS a less than full volume mash for 60 minutes and then mucked around for 20-30 minutes with an extra sparge step).

What size pot/urn do you have, or if you don't have one, what is the largest size you can afford to buy? That is probably a better first question.


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## seehuusen (23/4/14)

OK, I'm slightly confused about the sparge part then... So it's not required for BIAB, but some do it for higher efficiency?

I'm wanting to do smaller batches of say 12-14 litres to get my brewing count up and obviously not have to drink massive batches of possible terrible beer  Should my efficiency be through the roof (doubt it) and I got a stronger beer, or had to dilute, I wouldn't be upset about that 

In fact, when I do get my brewing down pat, I wouldn't mind using more grain to obtain a higher OG, and diluting that down for a bigger batch in the fermenter... I think I read that this was possible for people with similar to my brewing equipment?

This is my setup:

19L Coleman Drinks cooler for mashing
16L Stainless crab/soup pot for water/ wort boil
23L Fermenter
Temperature controlled Fermenting fridge
Looking to purchase a bigger pot soon, as it feels like it is just on the small side...

The last boil I did, in 1 hour, I lost about 2.5L of liquid, so if I understand you guys right, and I'm aiming for 12L into the fermenter, I should probably aim for 14.5L pre-boil. This would then, dependent on recipe, need x amount of extra water to account for 1L/KG of grain.


Does that sound about right?
What if I wanted to increase the efficiency, what amount should I sparge with and should I use less water in the mashing process then?

Cheers
Martin


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## GrumpyPaul (23/4/14)

I have been BIABing for a little while now and am only now trying to get the figures right (about time)

Are you sure about the boil off amount? 2.5 seem low for an hour unless you have a narrow pot. I lose about 4 litres an hour in my urn.

If you work backwards you are right with your pre boil amount.

12.5 into the fermenter + 2.5 boil loss = 14.5 preboil

Add the amount of water absorbed to grain - approx 1litre per Kg absorbed to grain
(say grain bill is 3kg)

14.5 pre boil + 3 litres = 17.5litres of water to mash in.

My urn is only 26 litres - so it is too small to go full volume for a standard 23 batch. But I can "sparge in a bucket" to make a few more litres to add back ot the pre boil.


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## Not For Horses (23/4/14)

Don't forget about loss to trub and hops.
I do 10L batchs and allow for 1.5L loss post boil.

Also, if you're pushing the limits of what your pot will hold, you should also account for thermal expansion of the wort. You will have roughly 5% more volume at 100 degrees.


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## Yeastfridge (23/4/14)

Are you mashing in your esky or in your pot? If you're mashing in your Coleman cooler you're not doing BIAB. 

Yes use less water in your mash, and use the same amount you removed from the mssh in your sparge. Back when I sparged I'd do around 8 litres for a 22L batch. 

I brew BIAB without a sparge and regularly hit 75% and a touch above (brewhouse efficiency). I sparged when I first started but made a hot mess and spent lots of time doing it and now just can't be arsed. I do squeeze the life out of my grain bag.


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## mxd (23/4/14)

seehuusen said:


> OK, I'm slightly confused about the sparge part then... So it's not required for BIAB, but some do it for higher efficiency?
> 
> I'm wanting to do smaller batches of say 12-14 litres to get my brewing count up and obviously not have to drink massive batches of possible terrible beer  Should my efficiency be through the roof (doubt it) and I got a stronger beer, or had to dilute, I wouldn't be upset about that
> 
> ...


You aint doing BIAB  do a bit of a search. Your doing a 2V then you can batch sparge or fly sparge


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## yum beer (23/4/14)

Are you using a bag in the cooler?

If you are i'd look at putting in a flase bottom and tap to drain....more research....ditch the bag.

mash, drain, sparge, drain, boli.....full volume or whatever volume you want. You will need the bigger pot.

Then you can use Brewmate to calculate water volumes.


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## seehuusen (23/4/14)

Yeah, brewing in the cooler with a bag... Will look into making the false bottom setup, concerned of getting all the bits, which was why I chose the bag setup.

Didn't realize you'd call it a 2v system... There you go, I'm learning heaps all the time 
I guess I just assumed using a bag in a pot or an urn and wrapping insulation around it would be the same as heating water to strike temp and chucking that into an insulated vessel, thanks for the correction 

What sort of pot size would be best? 19L or larger?


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## yum beer (23/4/14)

You can get a false bottom for under $50 through most of the sponsors. Tap and fittings for another $20-$30.

You could do 12-14 litres in a 19l but it would be a squeeze, probably want to go 30 litre, but it won't leave a lot of room for increasing batch sizes.

I pump out 14 litres batches mostly, using 40 litre esky, home made copper pipe manifold and an 50 litre beer container that lost its way. Can do much bigger batches if needed but its all phallic really.


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## seehuusen (23/4/14)

thanks mate, I'll have a closer look in that section, haven't actually browsed that part of the forum yet...
12-14L is all I want to do for now, that's why I bought this cooler. I was looking at a 38L one from the brew shop in Brisbane, but they were over a $100 more and you still needed another $80 or so to fit them with the tap and false bottom...


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