# Rossco Get's His Wrists Slapped.



## Ross (23/5/06)

Just got off the phone from Morgan's head sales guy - checking that their Brew Cellar range of dried yeasts are nitrogen flushed (which they are) & he said - "Are you that Ross guy that gets on all the beer forums?" He then proceeded to tell me off - Say's he keeps getting people ringing him with questions (which I guess he doesn't know the answers to - lol) & reckons I make brewing complicated which puts people off brewing. He said it's the last thing the brewing industry needs...

Guess they'd rather everyone stuck with their kits & didn't ask questions  

Just had to share it...  

Cheers Ross


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## Steve (23/5/06)

Excellent! Cheers Ross - that made me laugh. My brewing over the past 18 months has come on in leaps and bounds thanks to you Ross,....and yep, guess what I used to brew? Morgans! hahahahah  
Cheers
Steve


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Oh good heavens.

That's the exact attitude I've run into in several places (including within clubs), and it just makes me sick.

This isn't 1980, and we're not still sticking a sachet of no-name dried yeast into a can of gloop with a kilo of CSR's best, then cranking the heat belt up to 30C.

Ross - you will do well indeed if you stay exactly as you are.

If some of these kits are so damn good, why do I make crap beer with them, but can make great all-grain beer?


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## James Squire (23/5/06)

Nice one Ross! :beerbang: 

Cheers to that :beer: , if that isn't recognition of your greatness I don't know what is!

Gotta tell ya mate, whenever i post (or read a post) digging for information to advance my own brewing techniques I always hope to find your opinion there somewhere. I value your help and knowledge greatly. You rock man!  

JS


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## Jye (23/5/06)

ROTFLMAO


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## Crazy (23/5/06)

Ross said:


> Just got off the phone from Morgan's head sales guy - checking that their Brew Cellar range of dried yeasts are nitrogen flushed (which they are) & he said - "Are you that Ross guy that gets on all the beer forums?" He then proceeded to tell me off - Say's he keeps getting people ringing him with questions (which I guess he doesn't know the answers to - lol) & reckons I make brewing complicated which puts people off brewing. He said it's the last thing the brewing industry needs...
> 
> Guess they'd rather everyone stuck with their kits & didn't ask questions
> 
> ...



And here's me thinking it was the amount of beer I drink on brew day that made it complicated when all along it was you Ross.  Lucky all you got is a telling off.

PS All the problems caused by a lack of attention and too much beer dosn't seem to have affected Fridays Brews.

Derrick


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Look out man, you've upset the brew shop mafia!


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## DJR (23/5/06)

Classic! Complicated beer making procedures putting the big boys to shame is throwing people off brewing?

No, doing what the can says puts most people off brewing after the first couple of times!

Edit: whoa, that's a lot of quick responses!


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Apparently making beer by the time honoured methods of generations, using the same techniques and ingredients as real breweries is "complicated".

Lest I start sounding too much of a mash snob, like just about everyone I started off with kits, then went through a natural progression of extract & grains, etc. leading to all-grain.

At first it seemed horrendously complicated, but with over 50 all-grain batches under my belt, and changes to simplify my system, it has become easy indeed.


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## Jim_Levet (23/5/06)

Can't wait to pick up the Morgans newsletter at my local HBS. I reckon we should all call the Morgan's Hot-line!
James


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Dear Morgans Hotline, my airlock isn't bubbling, should I be worried? :blink:


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## Finite (23/5/06)

screw him ross.

I really enjoy his choice of words "complicated" implying that by using better techniques and ingredients that you are only making more work for yourself.

Good things only come from hard work. If he has a problem with striving to achive the best results in brewing then he isnt a very good person to represent the industry.

If people want to brew kit and kilo recipes then thats fine and they still produce admarble results. If they want to look a little deeper at least there is somebody there who is willing to share knowledge and help them out.

You've got my vote son. :beerbang:


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## Thommo (23/5/06)

My local HBS kept telling me that AG brewing produced no noticable difference in beer and that the extra effort wasn't worth it. Kept doing K&K's for about 10 years because of that.

Bloody glad I found this forum with helpful blokes willing to share their knowledge and experience.

Stuff 'em Rossco.


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## Stoodoo (23/5/06)

Is this guy serious???? He obviously has no clue whatsoever, since the threads started by, and replies made by you (the ones that I have read), have actually made brewing less complicated imho. 

Cheers


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## monkale (23/5/06)

Stick it to em Ross 
without blokes like you people would think there stuff is good. well done.

Cheers Monkale :beerbang:


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## Airgead (23/5/06)

colinw said:


> Dear Morgans Hotline, my airlock isn't bubbling, should I be worried? :blink:
> [post="128538"][/post]​



I reckon we should all ring up and start off by saying "This guy called Ross said...".

As far as I'm concerned you can keep on "complicating' things for us as much as you like. :super: 

Cheers
Dave


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Making real coffee is too complicated, just buy a bottle of nescafe.
Making a cake is too difficult, buy a packet mix.

I suspect that making beers as good as some of my all-grain efforts using kits or extract is possible, but would probably be harder work than just doing it with grains. I put partial mashing in this category - a good stepping stone to all-grain (because the extract covered up some defects like over sparges), but just as much or more work than all-grain.


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Ross, I think you should brew a batch of Complicator doppelbock to celebrate your new found status as a tormentor of can kit manufacturers.

Be sure to share the (complicated) recipe with us!


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## Ross (23/5/06)

We were discussing Nottingham & Windsor yeasts when it happened - Apparently their English ale yeast is "Windsor" - I said, "it's a shame it's not Nottingham as that's the one most brewers seem to want." " Not according to our reasearch" he retorted "W'ere not just interested in the Qld market". "I'm surprised" I said, "Nottingham is the one that everyone keeps asking for on the brewing forums" - That's when the Penny dropped & he hit me up - He absolutely floored me - I was lost for words, for once  - I just thanked him for his help & said goodbye...

Ross...


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## T.D. (23/5/06)

So I guess that means you won't be selling their range of yeasts...


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Good heavens, they are shooting themselves in the foot if they are shipping Windsor with extract kits.

Windsor exhibits low flocculation and attenuation, and is a tricky bastard to get to fully attenuate a beer, but has a lovely ester profile if it does. It also tends to get a bit banana-ey if fermented too warm.

Nottingham is super attenuative (perfect for extracts), relatively neutral and temperature tolerant in both directions - handles down to 14C and makes ok pseudo-lagers, but produces palatable beers well intotthe 20s.

I would treat Nottingham as a general purpose yeast for ales and pseudo-lagers, where Windsor is a much more specialist yeast for specific English ales where you want residual body combined with complex esters.


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Ok, another data point. We got some Windsor & Nottingham for our club. Our members had MUCH BETTER results with Nottingham and are still asking for more.

Several people reported under-attenuation with Windsor and it is only a couple of anglophile brewers whose brewing processes suit the yeast who actually want any more. I'm in that category - made a couple of superb ordinary bitters with it, but wouldn't use it for everything.


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## Ross (23/5/06)

colinw said:


> Good heavens, they are shooting themselves in the foot if they are shipping Windsor with extract kits.
> 
> Windsor exhibits now flocculation and attenuation, and is a tricky bastard to get to fully attenuate a beer, but has a lovely ester profile if it does. It also tends to get a bit banana-ey if fermented too warm.
> 
> ...



Colin - I doubt they're shipping Windsor with their kits, it's just one in their range
To quote them: 

English Ale - Will leave a relatively high final gravity. Produces strong-tasting bitter beer, stout, weizen and Hefe weizen. Best temp 18-22c

Cheers Ross


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## berazafi (23/5/06)

I can understand while his upset, not only is Ross taking all his customers by converting them to the all grain brewer, ross probably sells his hops cheaper than morgans can buy them. LOL

Keep up the good work Ross

Edit: spelling


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (23/5/06)

colinw said:


> Look out man, you've upset the brew shop mafia!
> [post="128533"][/post]​




Thats Classic. Careful you dont end up at the bottom of the Brisbane river with your feet in a giant plug of hops. Oh.....yeah.... They probably dont use them.....Its too complicated.


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## colinw (23/5/06)

More like a giant can of cement extract, and a bag of "concrete improver #3". Mix with water in a plastic cement mixer and stir with a big spoon.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (23/5/06)

colinw said:


> More like a giant can of cement extract, and a bag of "concrete improver #3". Mix with water in a plastic cement mixer and stir with a big spoon.
> [post="128586"][/post]​




.......sets at 21oC


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## Trent (23/5/06)

Thats pretty bloody funny, I cant believe he said you are complicating it! Maybe he enjoys beer that tastes like it costs 20c a bottle? Anyway, I have to say that Jye's santa APA label in his sig had me laughing even harder than your story ross. Jye, that is priceless!
Ross, maybe you should bring out your own line of uncomplicated kits :lol:
All the best
Trent


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## browndog (23/5/06)

Knowing you Ross, you seem to be quite good at bulldozing your way though roadblocks like they were not there, and there seems to be plenty in the HB industry. I am absolutely sure you will end up coming up with something to really give this yeast bloke the 5hits.

cheers

Browndog


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## mikem108 (23/5/06)

Due to attitude like the Morgans dude a guy at work not only completely stuffed his first kit beer but then also said to me "Thats a pretty boring way to be making beer". So from the get go this first time customer/brewer expected to have a few steps to go through etc. 
I handed him my old copy of Brewing for Dummies and his imagination has just run away. All his questions now are about hops, partial mash, boil times etc. And this will be only his second brew not counting the drain cleaner he initially did. I helped with his first K&K with extras, boiling, racking, bulk priming etc and he was not daunted by the extra procedures at all.
Sure there are those who want the most beer with minimal effort and make crap beer following the instructions on the can - this is what gives homebrew a bad name, but it is total BS to assume most homebrewers are in this category as the mafia seems to think. They would do a whole lot better educating brewers.
I've got that vibe from the CB brew shops I've been in, the guy just seemed annoyed that I was asking questions and not just buying a can of goop.


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## bindi (23/5/06)

I know where your coming from Ross only in a smaller way, last year I went to a large HBS north of Brisbane last year [no names, no courtmartial <_< ] and asked about grains and yeast etc, he asked me 'what do you brew?' I said I am into AG, the reply was, Quote: "Your one of those", after that he did not want to know me


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## Crazy (23/5/06)

bindi said:


> I know where your coming from Ross only in a smaller way, last year I went to a large HBS north of Brisbane last year [no names, no courtmartial <_< ] and asked about grains and yeast etc, he asked me 'what do you brew?' I said I am into AG, the reply was, Quote: "Your one of those", after that he did not want to know me
> [post="128593"][/post]​



Is the next step from here the Gay, Lesbian and AGers parades down in sydney with all the other "One of Those"'s

Derrick

AG and proud


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## Pumpy (23/5/06)

We must all have a story to tell but I had phoned up a couple of years ago regarding a lager kit I had bought which had an 'ale yeast' in it .  

I said they had put an ale yeast in the kit and it should be a 'lager yeast' ,the man said that they were all 'ale yeast '.and that we only print lager yeast on the yeast sachet for the Americans because they are more fussy . :huh: 

Pumpy


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (23/5/06)

Crazy said:


> bindi said:
> 
> 
> > I know where your coming from Ross only in a smaller way, last year I went to a large HBS north of Brisbane last year [no names, no courtmartial <_< ] and asked about grains and yeast etc, he asked me 'what do you brew?' I said I am into AG, the reply was, Quote: "Your one of those", after that he did not want to know me
> ...


I have not graduated to AG yet.........but Im Curious. 
Some of my best friends are AG'ers.

I still brew Extracts etc and K+K occasionally. Does that make me Bibrewual????  How will I tell my folks????


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## razz (23/5/06)

Jye said:


> ROTFLMAO
> [post="128531"][/post]​


I bet you didn't spill your beer either !


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## altstart (23/5/06)

:beer: 
Ross 
I really think you should send him a bottle of your Timothy Taylor Bitter with a note thanking him for his help. If he cant tell the difference between a kit beer and a AG there really is no hope for him.
Cheers Altstart


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## Duff (23/5/06)

altstart said:


> :beer:
> Ross
> I really think you should send him a bottle of your Timothy Taylor Bitter with a note thanking him for his help. If he cant tell the difference between a kit beer and a AG there really is no hope for him.
> Cheers Altstart
> [post="128602"][/post]​



Would you really waste it on him though? :lol:


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## BrissyBrew (23/5/06)

Ross
I think fear might be setting in the extract ivory tower. Look at the American market. All grain or partial mash seem more popular than kit and kilo brewers. If you loose long time kit and kilos to all grain your market shrinks. If people start using hops instead of pre hopped extract a large percentage of those people will leave unhopped extract for partial mashes and all grain. 

Alas if only they only changed their supply chain and had fresh extract on the self less than a couple weeks old or available online. It might motivate me to buy a tin on the odd occasion when I am feeling lazy or just dont have the time. Instead we are left with no option but to complicate things? oh really.

The kit and kilo market is what gives home brew "the stigma". We all know what it is like to be branded with it. We have all probably spent some time trying to explain to people. Yes it tastes good. Or reactions that does not taste like home brew. Which really means that does not taste like a "simple" kit and kilo.


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## normell (23/5/06)

But all brewers, K&K or AG need yeasts, dry or liquid, and a lot of kit brewers don't use the under the lid yeast's anyway, (I know back when I was a k&k'er, the first thing I did differently, was not to use the supplied, non temp controlled, yeasts.
So is that idiot trying to stop all but K&K brewers :blink:


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## facter (23/5/06)

Dear Ross - in the past year or two, your posts have helped my brewing take leaps and bopunds, and i can safely say that you personally have directly contributed to my making better beer.

(everyone else has also, but i always take the time to stop and read your posts specifically when you pipe up on a subject).

I saw good job on pissing them off


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## PistolPatch (23/5/06)

> If some of these kits are so damn good, why do I make crap beer with them, but can make great all-grain beer?





> My local HBS kept telling me that AG brewing produced no noticable difference in beer and that the extra effort wasn't worth it. Kept doing K&K's for about 10 years because of that.



Too right! Thanks to Ross, I'm now drinking my first 'drinkable' home brew and it's far better than anything commercial I have ever tasted in it's category. This has been my third go at home brewing over 20 years. To get a good, let alone great beer*, AG is far easier and less risky than kits and partials without a doubt. All you need is someone to show you how. (Thank God I was able to skip the partial stage.)

Ross - Can't remember the author of this quote but he sold millions of books. He said something like, "Some years ago, I received constant criticism. Now I receive none and therefore I deduce that I must be slipping." I love that quote! Tell that to Morgans. 

*OldDog - Your's is the only kit beer I've ever had without even a hint of 'kit twang' - you are the Master Kit Brewer!


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## mika (23/5/06)

Oh dear  seems to be some individuals are intent on keeping us in the dark ages..... fortunately I haven't met any of them on this forum 

Give 'em hell Ross :beer:


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## Sloth (23/5/06)

BrissyBrew said:


> The kit and kilo market is what gives home brew "the stigma". We all know what it is like to be branded with it. We have all probably spent some time trying to explain to people. Yes it tastes good. Or reactions that does not taste like home brew. Which really means that does not taste like a "simple" kit and kilo.
> [post="128605"][/post]​



Thats to tru Frank, im sick of people who drink VB telling me what I should brew!!

Anyway, goog on you Ross, I and many of us here have taken our brewing to the next (uncomplicated) level thanks to yourself and other on this forum.

Cheers, Sloth. :beer:


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## dicko (23/5/06)

Hi all,

My experiences in business is that when an opposition company in an allied industry complain about what you are doing, then it usually is a good indication that it is more likely what they are NOT doing.

I have had quality problems with a Morgans product (not those kegs, that is another issue) and after calls to them I was told to deal with the local supplier. I did so and he was as helpful as I believe he could be but in the end I got no satisfaction at all.

So I say to Morgans, "bad luck, stiff -you know what, and just deal with the fact that competition will exist and people will shop where they get the best product, correctly labelled goods, with a back up, and last but not least, civility in both the transaction and the complaint handling.

Oh! and IMO the person I spoke to at Morgans was keeping a good bloke out of a job.

Cheers


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## Tony (23/5/06)

whats his phone number ross

I want to ring him up tomorrow 

Yeah hi...... i was reading something this guy ross posted on the net saying that morgans kits can be improved by the use of 13g of hallertauer and 9.5g of tetnanger in a 7 minuite steep with a cinomon stick and 3 red chillies thrown in. Is this true?

And he said your yeast is nitrogen purged...... can you send me a detailed chemical analisis of the air inside the yeast pack to prove this?

Oh ...... you cant confirn this.........well your products taste like doggy poop soup anyway. In giving up on home brewing, its too complicated.



 it could be fun but im a trouble maker at heart 

cheers


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## muga (23/5/06)

Bad buisness on mogans behalf.. if that was their head sales guy then I one can only guess what a regular sales person would be like.


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## sah (23/5/06)

What an excellent example of the Internet as a great leveller.

More power to the craft brewers!  

Scott


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## ntboozer (23/5/06)

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced I'm getting the same treatment up this way re: kit and kilo verses AG.
When I first mentioned AG and my desire to buy grain the respose was that it was all too hard and not cost effective for this area - no dramas, there is always BusFreight from down south.
Mentioned the other day that my AG set up was coming along nicely and should be up and running within the next few months - response - unless it is all working right you'll end up with nothing but trouble...........Mmmmm nothing positive in these replies.
Keep up the great work Ross, AHB and AG'ers in general.
Cheers
nt
:beer:


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## andrewl (23/5/06)

Hope you gave it back to him Ross! Since I've come in contact with you over this forum you have been nothing but a great help! In all aspects of brewing not just about purged yeasts!
Keep up the good work mate! 

Cheers,
Andrew


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## kirem (23/5/06)

I want to purchase some morgans products, but I can't see the availability at crafterbrewer.com.au


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## Linz (23/5/06)

kirem said:


> I want to purchase some morgans products, but I can't see the availability at crafterbrewer.com.au
> [post="128681"][/post]​



Thats the phone call right there !!!!


finished off with..."when do you think they'll be stocking it??"


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## Boozy the clown (24/5/06)

Morgans? Well i guess this happy KK brewer will just happen to miss those ones on the shelf...


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## Barry (24/5/06)

Good Day
When it comes to brewing I have found complicated to be simple and simple to be usually very complicated. Simple no name yeast makes brewing complicated in too many cases.


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## FNQ Bunyip (24/5/06)

NTboozer its the same in Cairns, infact I am now wondering if one of the 2 hbs in Cairns is in fact owned or at lest run by morgans. 

Go hard Ross.. I'm with the others here in saying that thanks to you I'm moving on and aiming for better brews, ag might be a while but better yeasts and hops are on there way (thanks again) and the ply for my brew box arived last night... I would say we are lucky to have you around keeping them honest .. Stick it too them ..

:beer:


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## Snow (24/5/06)

Crazy said:


> bindi said:
> 
> 
> > I know where your coming from Ross only in a smaller way, last year I went to a large HBS north of Brisbane last year [no names, no courtmartial <_< ] and asked about grains and yeast etc, he asked me 'what do you brew?' I said I am into AG, the reply was, Quote: "Your one of those", after that he did not want to know me
> ...


That's a great idea Derrick! We should have an All Grain and Partial Mash Mardis Gras! We can parade giant floats down main street covered in hop vines throwing handfulls of malt and free pH strips into the crowd! :lol: Ross could dress really skimpily in a hop flower bikini and dance with a pint of schwartzbier in his mitt!

Cheers - Snow


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## muga (24/5/06)

Snow said:


> We should have an All Grain and Partial Mash Mardis Gras! We can parade giant floats down main street covered in hop vines throwing handfulls of malt and free pH strips into the crowd! :lol: Ross could dress really skimpily in a hop flower bikini and dance with a pint of schwartzbier in his mitt![post="128758"][/post]​


There has been far to much thought in to that suggestion.. getting a little worried. :blink:


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## sintax69 (24/5/06)

Snow in this dream of yours wheres your mash paddle


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## mikem108 (24/5/06)

Drew 
there is nothing wrong at all with KK brewing, most AGers are expressing frustration at the fact that certain supply chains don't take AG brewers seriously.
There is nothing to say that with care in procedure an extract brew would be inferoir to AG. In fact in a blind tasting between a bunch of beers made to the same recipe but using grain vs extract brewed by a professional brewer the tasters preferred the extract (Papazian-Homebrewers companion)


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## DrewCarey82 (24/5/06)

Yeah true, but some peoples comments where pretty darn offensive.

Anything that improves the HB scene should be accessible to you's so I fully support you's. - 1 of these days I am hoping to progress down that direction a little, probably not all way AG, but adding grains and such would be nice, already hop and use dif yeasts


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## colinw (24/5/06)

I unreservedly apologise if my comments caused offense.

The target of my posts was certain home brew stores which paint anything beyond K&K (including extract brewing) as "too difficult", not kit brewers.

In my early days of brewing, I was on the receiving end of "why do you want to make things complicated" type advice from a HBS when I just wanted to improve my kit beers a bit (this was long before I had any thoughts of partial mash, let alone all-grain).

I ended up giving up on any form of local support until I found the club I'm in, but even there I have had problems with some people complaining about "making things too complex". To this day I get most of my brewing info from the internet (this site, OzCb although much less these days, rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup, and John Palmer's www.howtobrew.com)

If Brisbane had a local HBS of the calibre of some in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide or Canberra it would be a different story, although there is one store on the south side which is run by an accomplished mash brewer and where good advice may be found.


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## DrewCarey82 (24/5/06)

Yeah I know I've actually quit going to brew shops because once you get down the basics of hygene, technique & temp then they are useless. Getting told not to use dif yeasts, or do any of the fancier stuff was off putting.

Luckily I have a guy that gets me my morgans gear and other brands at cost price.

I am a self admitted LHBS hater, been to about 3 and all very average and no help. - Typical small minded, small business owners grubby and rude.


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## colinw (24/5/06)

Question about the Morgans stuff.

Back in my kit & extract days, I used a mix of Coopers and Morgans, and nearly always had better results with the Coopers. To this day, some of my best beers were partial mashes made with Coopers LME or Coopers wheat extract.

The problem I had with the Morgans stuff was
- much more prone to that "tang" 
- poor head retention compared to beers made with Coopers extract
- getting beers darker than expected, particularly with their lager malt and wheat malt.

I suspect this all points to stale / heat damaged stock.

With extract & kit brewing freshness is the key, and one of the reasons I eventually went all-grain. I'd make a great beer with extract & grains, or a kit & grains. Then a repeat of the recipe would have that extract flavour.

As far as kits go, I actually had more luck getting fresh kits dated well ahead of their use-by in some of the bigger local supermarkets than at HBS. Eg. if I want to make a good partial mash beer, I can always count on being able to get a nice fresh Coopers Draught or Canadian Blonde at woolworths or big-w.


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## DrewCarey82 (24/5/06)

My kits come pretty much straight off the production line.... plus Under half price of some homebrew shops!

And yep with some homebrew shops particularly with their ridiculous mark ups, I can imagine they sit their for donkeys years, while @ big w where they may not be as quality, are very fresh as well.


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## barneyhanway (24/5/06)

I've always been of the opinion that the people who maintain that extract brews are every bit as good as all grain fall into the small category of "those who can get fresh as a daisy malt on demand".
At a guess (and thats all it is) Mr Papazian himself would fall into that category, from what I can ascertain online its easier to get really fresh extract in the USA.

Don't know about aussie, bit in NZ its just not the reality.


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## colinw (24/5/06)

That matches my experience with kit & extract brewing.

When I could get really fresh extract, I made beers that are every bit as good as any all-grain I've made. But then there were the "other batches" ... :-(

All-grain is not without this hazard either. A certain HBS in Brisbane told someone in our club that weevils in malt were normal, and not to complain!

I also had some diabolical results with some Weyermann Munich Malt which must have got damp. Every beer I used it in had a wierd acidic tang, and until I realised that it was the only common ingredient it kept happening. I then munched on a few grains and got some which were incredibly tangy and acidic.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (24/5/06)

Extract Brewing Q's

How old or young should LME be to be considered fresh?

Should it be refrigerated? 
I had not really thought about these questions till now.

I use Baccus and Barley and have seen them Wheeling the freshly filled 44's into the back of the shop for canning.
I have had a can sitting in the shed for the last fortnight, but it has a useby date of (Just wait, gotta run out to the brewery)......

.......Oh. No Use by date.

The guy in the "Brew and Grow" in Edithvale (Julian), has always been really helpful to me and I cant imagine him having the kind of attitude discussed in this thread. He in fact got me from K+K onto Extract and partials.

BTW. One of the reasons I have not yet graduated to AG is that I have been so immensley happy with my Extract and partials (And even my K+K).

Still, cant wait to give it a go. Just need to collect some equipment.

cheers

ATOMT


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## colinw (24/5/06)

I've never had a problem with LME within 2-3 months of manufacture, particularly if kept in the fridge.

Once it gets close to the date on the can, particularly if stored at room temperature, those "cidery" flavours seem to become inevitable.

DME keeps better, but I've always had attenuation problems with all-DME beers.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (24/5/06)

Thanks Colinw.

I probably should have started a different thread there as this one has started to drift from "Ross getting a wrist slap".

Actually, that title probably would be a bit more appropriate for another thread thats getting a run at the moment.

ATOMT


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## ausdb (24/5/06)

colinw said:


> I also had some diabolical results with some Weyermann Munich Malt which must have got damp. Every beer I used it in had a wierd acidic tang, and until I realised that it was the only common ingredient it kept happening. I then munched on a few grains and got some which were incredibly tangy and acidic.
> [post="128823"][/post]​



Sounds like you managed to make your own sauer malt, have a crunch on some acidulated malt and you will probably taste the same thing. They purposely innoculate it with lactobacillus to get some lactic acid happening and then kiln it off.


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