# Cleaning Your Brewing Equipment



## robbiep (11/1/13)

Hi guys,

Now that my first extract and AG brew is going to be done soon, Ill going to need to give the fermenters a good clean after bottling.

What do you guys use to clean your fermenters with? 

I assume the cleaner / soap you use is important as you dont want to leave your fermenter soapy for the next brew.

I have a no rinse sanitizer which I will use after I have cleaned everything and just make up 2 litres and give everything a good swirl followed with a spray (sanitiser in a spray bottle).

Out of interest, I got this solution from an old thread, which is a home made no rinse sanitiser:

take 19L of cold tap water
add 30ml of household bleach, stir well
add 30ml of white vinegar, stir well

20-30secs contact time for effectiveness. If made up to this strength It does not require rinsing. Swish the stuff around and drain it out well.

Anyone tried this?

Cheers,
Robbie


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## barls (11/1/13)

i use a mix of sodium percarb and sodium metasilicate to clean then use starsan for the win to sanitise.


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## DU99 (11/1/13)

As above for cleaning and same for sanitise.


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## robbiep (11/1/13)

Thanks! 

sodium percarb and sodium metasilicate.. is this something you can find only at your LHBS?


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## robbiep (11/1/13)

After speaking to my LHBS, they dont have sodium percarb or sodium metasilicate, but have a product called Pink Stain (about $9 for 500grams).

Anyone heard of this cleaning product?


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## fcmcg (11/1/13)

robbiep said:


> Thanks!
> 
> sodium percarb and sodium metasilicate.. is this something you can find only at your LHBS?


You can also use unscented napisan...similiar product...just make sure you rinse fully before sanitising...
LHBS may have products like oxyper and PBW...which are possibly made using sodium percarb and sodium metasilicate
F


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## Nick JD (11/1/13)

Napisan ... Starsan. 

Cheap, effective.


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## mikec (11/1/13)

Be careful with bleach and vinegar, also with the pink stuff.
Both are pretty caustic and you really don't wanna be breathing nearby.

Whereas Sodium Perc is fairly harmless.
Keg King sell it.
PBW is mostly a mix of this and sodium metasilicate, but is pricey.


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## robbiep (11/1/13)

Thanks guys..

I went down to Coles and got their version of NapiSan called ULTRA BOOSTER (Sensitive). It is 32.9% Sodium Percarbonate and said to have no added dyes, perfumes or enzymes... I'm sure it will do the trick 

Do you guys completely full up your fermenters when soaking and how long do you soak for?


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## bignath (11/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> Napisan ... Starsan.
> 
> Cheap, effective.



^that. 



robbiep said:


> Thanks guys..
> 
> I went down to Coles and got their version of NapiSan called ULTRA BOOSTER (Sensitive). It is 32.9% Sodium Percarbonate and said to have no added dyes, perfumes or enzymes... I'm sure it will do the trick
> 
> Do you guys completely full up your fermenters when soaking and how long do you soak for?



Yep. It will work well. I fill mine in the laundry sink with hot water and a cap of napisan and let it overflow for a second. Leave it until I have another cube ready to go, then hot water rinses, refill with more wort. 
If no cube waiting to ferment then I leave it in napisan overnight, hot water rinse, sanitize then seal and store.


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## wbosher (11/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> Napisan ... Starsan.
> 
> Cheap, effective.



Same again. I also chuck all my bits and pieces in there too...spoon, hydrometer, bottling valve etc.


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## Truman42 (11/1/13)

robbiep said:


> I went down to Coles and got their version of NapiSan called ULTRA BOOSTER (Sensitive). It is 32.9% Sodium Percarbonate and said to have no added dyes, perfumes or enzymes... I'm sure it will do the trick



Good find RobbieP. Might have to look out for it next time Im there.


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## SJW (11/1/13)

caustic soda for metal & pink stain for plastic


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## robbiep (11/1/13)

It was $4 for 1kg


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## Nick JD (13/1/13)

robbiep said:


> Do you guys completely full up your fermenters when soaking and how long do you soak for?


I ferment in 20L Willow jerrys, so can seal the lids. I fill to just over half way, with cold water, add a lid of napisan, and the lid, and then lay it flat. The next day I flip it like a pancake. This way the handle is cleaned, and I only use half the water.
Starsan (1.5ml) into a 1L squirty bottle: spray any gear and wait 3 minutes. Drain and use.


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## robbiep (13/1/13)

Good advice Nick,
Gave all my equipment a clean yesterday and used alot of water and potentially Sanitiser (also sprayed).
I also started spraying the sanitizer opposed to making a big batch and soaking.. a waste of water and sanitzier.


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## Moad (13/1/13)

LHBS has 100% sodium percarbonate which I used for the first time yesterday on some cornys I picked up. Worked an absolute treat... I just got some coles no name napisan stuff which is 33% sodium perc so I am going to mix them together to save a bit of coin. 

Don't use bleach on any stainless steel including corny kegs or they will rust. I had to let one soak in lemon juice and warm water to get rid of the rust, that previous owner had used bleach on.

My impression is that sodium perc sanitises to a degree and there is no need for another sanitiser such as starsan but I am not 100% sure on this. Starsan seems to have an excellent reputation though so better to play it safe?


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## bcp (13/1/13)

Moad said:


> My impression is that sodium perc sanitises to a degree and there is no need for another sanitiser such as starsan but I am not 100% sure on this. Starsan seems to have an excellent reputation though so better to play it safe?


If you rinse out the sodim perc, you have just potentially lost your sanitisation. 

A no rinse sanitiser such as iodophor is very cheap, can be used for every part of brewing. 10ml in a litre of water, no need to rinse it off, and instant sanitising for bottles, hoses, fermenter, whatever.


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## BeerBottle (14/1/13)

I keep hearing good things about Starsan. Im off the the HBS today...I might have to get some to give it a go. I haven't had much luck with my brewing in the recent past. I've had batches go off or just taste bad. Maybe this will help


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## O-beer-wan-kenobi (27/1/13)

With regards to rising sanitiser, the use of water straight from the tap is said to be detrimental because it could contain bacteria. However my tap water is very high in chlorine, you can taste and smell the chlorine. Could anyone comment if this would be safe or not?


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## matho (27/1/13)

bcp said:


> If you rinse out the sodim perc, you have just potentially lost your sanitisation.
> 
> A no rinse sanitiser such as iodophor is very cheap, can be used for every part of brewing. 10ml in a litre of water, no need to rinse it off, and instant sanitising for bottles, hoses, fermenter, whatever.


bcp, sure it's 10ml per litre, the iodophor that I have says 1ml per litre.


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## Batz (27/1/13)

barls said:


> i use a mix of sodium percarb and sodium metasilicate to clean then use starsan for the win to sanitise.



What percentages do you use barls?


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## carniebrew (27/1/13)

O-beer-wan-kenobi said:


> With regards to rising sanitiser, the use of water straight from the tap is said to be detrimental because it could contain bacteria. However my tap water is very high in chlorine, you can taste and smell the chlorine. Could anyone comment if this would be safe or not?


The operative word here is "could". Many home brewers both rinse their FV's with tap water and of course even brew with tap water. K&K no-boil brews are often 20 or more litres of tap water....and infected brews from such are rare. Many of my brews are still half or more made up of water straight from my tap, to top up my boil.

Using tap water to rinse "could" introduce an infection. Using a no-rinse sanitiser removes that risk. You just have to decide your acceptable level of risk. Starsan as a no-rinse sanitising solution works out so ridiculously cheap that it's well worth the investment to remove that risk.


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## m3taL (27/1/13)

Iv been using the Aldi Napisan and Bleaching things lately with the sanitizer style bleach & Vinegar mix then let them dry and store, Mainly bottles that iv aquired from others and stuff to make sure its all clean.

Still using a no rinse sanitiser before actually using the bottles or my fermenter etc..... why risk an infection by not using it.... got starsan on the next HBS order that i will go pickup next week for next brew day....

also washed down benches, fridge and other equipment with a bleach solution to keep things clean and less germy..... no such thing as keeping this kind of thing too clean....


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## barls (27/1/13)

i use a 50/50 mix.
got a little scoop that i use that has a half measure mark on it.


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## Thirsty Boy (27/1/13)

O-beer-wan-kenobi said:


> With regards to rising sanitiser, the use of water straight from the tap is said to be detrimental because it could contain bacteria. However my tap water is very high in chlorine, you can taste and smell the chlorine. Could anyone comment if this would be safe or not?


Depends on whether you want "it probably wont hurt" or "it will absolutely not hurt"

so - if you sanitise with something that needs to be rinsed, then rinse it with your tap water, it'll probably be OK..... or you can sanitise with a no rinse sanitiser (which, if you use either iodophor or the aforementioned bleach/vinegar solution is so cheap as to be virtually cost free) and know that you are applying basically the best possible solution you could.

You choose whats important to you - I sugges you use a no-rinse.

As for cleaning - you guys seem to use a lot of water. There isn't much in a brewery that needs to be filled and soaked. Fermenters, kettles, spoons, mashtuns etc you can reach into and help out the chemicals by giving it a wipe with a cloth.... I cant see any reason you'd need more than a litre of water with a teaspoon of PBW (or whatever you think does as good a job) in it to clean any one of them.

I'd use perhaps five litres of water with a tablespoon of PBW in it for a whole brewday's worth of cleaning. All 3 vessels, RIMS unit, buckets spoons etc and its way more than enough. I mostly take the lazy option and tip it after that, but if I'm organised enough, that cleaning solution gets funneled into a plastic jug (strained through a chux to catch any chunks) and used to clean the cube after its put into the fermenter, then saved again and used to clean the fermenter after its been kegged... maybe getting a run to clean the keg on the way.

Detergents dont stop being effective just because they've been used, or have picked up a bit of colour - they stop being effective..... when they stop being effective. You'll notice. Anything you are likely to be using will almost certainly get so cloudy and soiled that you wont be able to bring yourself to re-use it, long before it stops actually doing a good job.


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## spog (27/1/13)

O-beer-wan-kenobi said:


> With regards to rising sanitiser, the use of water straight from the tap is said to be detrimental because it could contain bacteria. However my tap water is very high in chlorine, you can taste and smell the chlorine. Could anyone comment if this would be safe or not?


obwk,the chlorine smell could be due to you noticing it when water usage is low (as in not much water usage in the area you life in/supply line) i heard a radio topic on this just 2 wks ago,apparently due too the above and usually during low demand times/holidays etc when supply is not in high demand (winter) just thought id throw it in....cheers...spog...


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## 431neb (2/2/13)

O-beer-wan-kenobi said:


> With regards to rising sanitiser, the use of water straight from the tap is said to be detrimental because it could contain bacteria. However my tap water is very high in chlorine, you can taste and smell the chlorine. Could anyone comment if this would be safe or not?


Anxious to avoid the sanitizer / cleaner / steriliser debate that rears it's ugly head now and then but wanted to comment on OB Wans' question regarding tap water. 

Putting aside the fact that most kit brewers top up with 19 or 20 litres of tap-water. I guess if you pitch at the correct rates it overpowers the nasties in the tap water. 

After I jet the krausen krud off the inside of the vessel, I clean with the same sodium percarbonate mentioned above from Coles (It comes in a white and pink plastic container), and leave it in there until I need the fermenter. So they are full for a week or so. Then I rinse with hot tap water and rinse again with one kettle full of boiling water which I shake about. The final step to satisfactory sanitation is a no rinse sanitiser. I use Hydrogen Peroxide but I want to get some Starsan or iodophor. I just pour a bit out of my squirter into the fermenter or jerry can and shake it. I use the squirter to douse the caps and lids and seals and grommets etc....



I use the same products with a different method to clean my bottles.


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## Bribie G (3/2/13)

I went to Sydney for a few days and didn't have time to wash out a fermenter used for a Foreign Extra Stout. It's full of the most disgusting trub and black caked-on shyte known to man or woman. About to start in on it and I'll post a photo essay this afternoon which may be of interest to the OP. I'll be using pure Sodium Percarbonate, a garden hose and soft cloth and finishing off with some Starsan.


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## pk.sax (3/2/13)

@ carnie and others wrt kit brew and tap water etc.

Yes, most times, even filling cleaned bottles without sanitising wont get you infected. The germs have to be there and the yeast dead to really up your risk that much.

However, think this way, most kit brewers use the kit yeast. It comes 'free' under the lid. They are effectively using a 'fresh' pitch of yeast each time. The amount of contaminating microbes in the tap water would be overtaken.
A lot of brewers brewing all grain or partials etc that don't get the yeast under the lid buy it separately, and tend to reuse slurry etc. here is the catch, the microbes will grow, regardless of how much yeast there was. The first batch might not notice it but over time, looser sanitisation will allow build of noticeable levels of undesirable microbes. Especially consider using plastics that can harbour them in pores. With stricter sanitisation, you start off with relatively purer yeast and can safely reuse a number of times.

Anyway, that's my peace of mind theory. In a pinch I'd just swirl hot water around and rinse it but rather prefer to put sanitizer on it.


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## Bribie G (3/2/13)

This is my system that I've been using for the last 4 years and I've never had a fermenter infection whilst doing this - had a couple of cube infections but that's a different issue.

Basically, working off the pics below:


Hose out the FV a couple of times and run water through tap
Fill with water (hot works quicker but cold is fine if you can wait longer)
Add sodium percarbonate from your bulk buy - I have a 1/4 cup measure that just lives in the tub.
Bit of a stir.
Go off to Bunnings to buy a Jalapeno plant, a curry leaf plant and a birdbath.
$40 for a fecking bath for the sparrows, they'll have to do with a $4 from BI LO
Home from BI LO and the perc has done its job. The bit of debris at the top hoses off ok.
Hose out the FV a couple of times.
Check for any stuck on spots inside, it's usually perfectly clean after the perc has eaten everything.
Remove tap and wash it thoroughly via hot water tap (edit: wash the tap not the FV)
Place FV on side and dribble that much Starsan into it, coating the tap thread hole. In fact that's a generous dose for the task.
Replace tap, using the Starsan as a lubricant. Nothing will ever live in that tap recess now.
Pour about a litre of water into FV and shake well, then run some out through tap.
Seal FV and it's good for next brew, just drain well and no real need to rinse.

At no stage did I have to actually put a hand or a foot or anything into the FV but if you really want you can do an intermediate step and wash it out with dishwashing stuff and a yellow cloth. I don't usually do that nowadays and the stout FV in the photo is about as bad as it gets.


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