# Steeping Grain



## dj1984 (24/6/08)

hi everyone just wondering if i boil a kettle and but the grains in a pot with that water is it going to be too hot


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## bconnery (24/6/08)

Yes. 
You want the water for steeping to be somewhere in the region of 60-70C. Let the water cool for a while. 
Alternatively you can start the grains in the pot with cold water and slowly heat it u, stirring frequently, to around the temp and then let it sit for a little.


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## brettprevans (24/6/08)

you could also do a search on AHb and find more than you will ever need to know on steeping.

here

boiling water isnt good. it creates harsh tannins from the grain. my advice is go the cold and slowly heat it avenue.


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## Hefty (24/6/08)

I'm still new to steeping as well but as such I've been trying to read all I can. Here are two good threads: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=23171 ,
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=20773
(or do a search, there's stacks of info on here about it)
From what I've gathered, accurate temperature isn't _*as*_ critical with steeping but can still make some difference. The basic answer is yes - straight from the boil, the water would still be too hot and may release tannins that cause astringent (mouth puckering) flavours. For real mashes, around 65 to 68 degrees C is ideal. If you can match this for a steep and maintain it, it will be good but anything less than 72 degrees C will be fine. If you don't have a really accurate thermometer, boil some water and then let it stand for a few minutes first before pouring it on the grain.
Another option if your local water is of decent quality, is to set your hot water heater temp to between 65 and 70 degrees and use the resultant hot water from your tap. Puritans who read this may flame me for that but hey, you're going to boil the liquor that you strain off afterwards to avoid infections.
Hope that all helps!

Jono.
Edit: wow, in the time it took me to find those two threads, two other people beat me to the reply!


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## sponge (24/6/08)

The hot water which i get out of the tap is pretty much 65'C, so you could maybe get away with that. 

Alternatively, (if i remember correctly) you can use two parts boiling water, to one part cold water and it will get you close to the right temperature??

More then happy to be corrected about the second option :icon_cheers: 

Sponge


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## Cortez The Killer (24/6/08)

Concur with sponge 

2 parts boiling 1 part normal tap water - should get you close 

Adjust on stove if necessary

Cheers


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## Pennywise (25/6/08)

Or you could just cold steep overnight, I personally haven't tried this method yet but I haven't heard bad things about it, and will be giving it a go with my next porter


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## staggalee (25/6/08)

Homebrewer79 said:


> Or you could just cold steep overnight, I personally haven't tried this method yet but I haven't heard bad things about it, and will be giving it a go with my next porter



I`ve cold steeped for years, usually an 18 hour steep, can`t notice any diff. compared to hot steep, just less mucking around on brew morning.

stagga.


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## Pennywise (25/6/08)

staggalee said:


> I`ve cold steeped for years, usually an 18 hour steep, can`t notice any diff. compared to hot steep, just less mucking around on brew morning.
> 
> stagga.



That's exaclty why I'm heading in that direction, I think it's aslo good for those who don't have a thermometer (like me) and worried about tannins


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## solidghost (25/6/08)

How does the cold steep works? You put the grains in the pot of water and just let it steep for 18 hours?


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## Pennywise (25/6/08)

solidghost said:


> How does the cold steep works? You put the grains in the pot of water and just let it steep for 18 hours?




yep, I think you add a little more water than when hot steeping but I'm not 100% sure. Won't hurt though


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## Mclovin (25/6/08)

I have a bag of Munich malt grain and was told by LHBS i have to crush the grain with a rolling pin before i do a steep or mini mash. The grain in the bag looks to be cracked open already.


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## Pennywise (26/6/08)

Mclovin said:


> I have a bag of Munich malt grain and was told by LHBS i have to crush the grain with a rolling pin before i do a steep or mini mash. The grain in the bag looks to be cracked open already.




The Munich malt needs to be mashed :icon_cheers:


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## Spiderpig (26/6/08)

May be opening myself up here as dumb a#se of the century with this question on Steeping Crystal Grain - (note: I am yet to see what size this grain is and want to try this process with my next brew). When it comes to filtering the grain from the malty liquid, would a flour sieve do the job, or are the holes to big for this type of grain? Perhaps I should use one of those coffee filters or even a plunger? Would a plunger be a good option for steeping grain? Sorry for asking such a dumb question boys - go easy on me, I'm just a newbie...

Spiderpig


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## Pennywise (26/6/08)

Spiderpig said:


> May be opening myself up here as dumb a#se of the century with this question on Steeping Crystal Grain - (note: I am yet to see what size this grain is and want to try this process with my next brew). When it comes to filtering the grain from the malty liquid, would a flour sieve do the job, or are the holes to big for this type of grain? Perhaps I should use one of those coffee filters or even a plunger? Would a plunger be a good option for steeping grain? Sorry for asking such a dumb question boys - go easy on me, I'm just a newbie...
> 
> Spiderpig



Never tried to filter with a sieve, I recomend you get a grain bag. The best one I've come across so far is the ones from Craftbrewer, they're big enough to hold a few kg's of grain and fairly strong. You can get cheaper one's but they are pretty crap IMHO.

EDIT- don't feel bad about asking questions that seem silly to you, we've all been there. I still ask stupid questions.


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## pint of lager (26/6/08)

For small amounts, a few hundred grams, there would be nothing wrong with using a coffee plunger (so long as it clean first)

Any sort of fine seive will do the job. A colander has holes too big. So if the cook of the house says you can use the flour seive, then go for it.

A larger style sieve will be needed for bigger amounts. 

Make suer you read up on boiling the resultant solution. All liquid from grains must be boiled to sanitise. Don't just chuck it in the fermenter.

You can even buy cheese cloth and peg it over a saucepan for up to about 2kg. When my bucket in bucket mash stuck a few times, I pegged a large piece of cheesecloth over a bucket fermenter, with some rolled up bits of mesh to hold the lot off the bottom, transferred and allowed the lot to drain.

For any larger amounts, you really want to read up on ag equipment and utilise a false bottom or braid.


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## sponge (26/6/08)

This is a picture of a grain bag mum made for me yesterday with some muslin i got from spotlight

Really easy to make. Just a large-ish square (2.5 hand-spans x 2.5 hand spans ) , with the muslin doubled over and some rope tied through the top so you can close the bag






Only problem is getting them clean again. I epmtied and cleaned mine as well as i could, let it dry, get off any leftover grain and rinse it and let it dry again


Sponge


EDIT: Picture didnt work first time round.... you cant really see the rope around the top, but you get the idea... :icon_cheers:


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## brettprevans (26/6/08)

+1 for craftbrewer grain/hop bag. Ive got the big one and its great.

I have also used the kitchen flour sieve and its works, it just takes longer for bigger amounts of grain.


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## vchead (26/6/08)

I use pantihose to hold the grain while steeping. Give them a light squeeze as you pull them out of the water before the boil.

Wife did look at my strange though when I came home from store with packet of cheap pantihose for myself,

R


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## Beer&Kebab (11/7/08)

All this information is great.. I am just getting back into brewing again and I wondered why my atempts at steeping produced poor results several years ago. It must have been because of bad advise from my local HBS ??? Here is what is on the label of a 150g grains packet from local HBS (can you guess who it is ?) - "Empty desired amount into a heat proof vessel of at least 1ltr capacity. Fill with boiling water and stand for 10 - 20 mins. Strain then rinse water directly into fermenter, leaving the grain behind".


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## Pennywise (11/7/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> All this information is great.. I am just getting back into brewing again and I wondered why my atempts at steeping produced poor results several years ago. It must have been because of bad advise from my local HBS ??? Here is what is on the label of a 150g grains packet from local HBS (can you guess who it is ?) - "Empty desired amount into a heat proof vessel of at least 1ltr capacity. Fill with boiling water and stand for 10 - 20 mins. Strain then rinse water directly into fermenter, leaving the grain behind".




It's not as bad as the advice i was given when I started usuing grain, I was told to boil it for 20 mins


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## Beer&Kebab (11/7/08)

Homebrewer79 said:


> It's not as bad as the advice i was given when I started usuing grain, I was told to boil it for 20 mins




Indeed.. Though, the advise on this packet is current.. I purchased it yesterday :angry:


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## sponge (11/7/08)

Need to remember, not boiling water

Inbetween 60-70 is alright for steeping grains

But if you dont have a thermometer, you can do what i used to, and that is 2 parts boiling to one part cool tap water. that should give you a pretty close temp. 

Another way is, my hot tap water is pretty much 67'C, which is about right for that. So you could always just use all hot tap water, let them sit for 30min or so and then you should be set

Remember not to leave any grains behind, and also to boil the resulting liquid (but NOT the grains!!)


Sponge


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## staggalee (11/7/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> All this information is great.. I am just getting back into brewing again and I wondered why my atempts at steeping produced poor results several years ago. It must have been because of bad advise from my local HBS ??? Here is what is on the label of a 150g grains packet from local HBS (can you guess who it is ?) - "Empty desired amount into a heat proof vessel of at least 1ltr capacity. Fill with boiling water and stand for 10 - 20 mins. Strain then rinse water directly into fermenter, leaving the grain behind".



So?
Apart from a slight diff. in the water temp, that`s virtually the procedure anyway :huh: 

stagga.
{I just cold steep the night before, saves a lot of ginning around on brew morning}


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## Beer&Kebab (11/7/08)

staggalee said:


> So?
> Apart from a slight diff. in the water temp, that`s virtually the procedure anyway :huh:
> 
> stagga.
> {I just cold steep the night before, saves a lot of ginning around on brew morning}




I thought it was wrong on 2 counts:

1) Boiling water produces tannins etc.. Not good. 
2) It doen't mention boiling the resulting liquid. Possible bugs in brew.

I thought these were important points..


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## staggalee (11/7/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> I thought it was wrong on 2 counts:
> 
> 1) Boiling water produces tannins etc.. Not good.
> 2) It doen't mention boiling the resulting liquid. Possible bugs in brew.
> ...



They are.
It`s also important to read posts thoroughly before replying.
I must remember that.
Carry on. :lol: 

stagga.


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## sponge (11/7/08)

Haha, yea, not boiling the liquid can be a liiiittle too crazy loco for a brew not to become infected.

Try and boil it for about 10min to be safe


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## staggalee (11/7/08)

sponge said:


> Haha, yea, not boiling the liquid can be a liiiittle too crazy loco for a brew not to become infected.
> 
> Try and boil it for about 10min to be safe



As a side note to that, I didn`t boil the steep liquid once, and while it escaped infection, it had a distinct "earthy" flavour to it.

stagga.


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## Jamz (11/7/08)

I haven't played around with steeping grains yet, but its something I'd like to try sometime. I'd be quite interested to hear if anyones ever done a side-by-side comparison between hot a cold steeping. And do you need to add more water in a cold steep to compensate for the fact that a cooler solvent will have a lower solute capacity? 

Hot steeping sounds easy enough with the 2 parts boiling to 1 part cold water, but how do you maintain that temperature? If you don't keep heating it, the temp is obviously gonna drop a bit over half an hour. Do you have to play around trying to keep it at the right temperature on the stove? Or insulate it somehow?


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## Pennywise (11/7/08)

Jamz said:


> Hot steeping sounds easy enough with the 2 parts boiling to 1 part cold water, but how do you maintain that temperature? If you don't keep heating it, the temp is obviously gonna drop a bit over half an hour. Do you have to play around trying to keep it at the right temperature on the stove? Or insulate it somehow?




I just put the lid on the pot and leave it, the drop in temp isn't really a problem.


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## 0M39A (11/7/08)

cant believe the instructions you got with your grain. thats just shocking for a homebrew store to give advice like that. I'd be going in there and giving them a piece of my mind. grain is notorious for harboring lactobacillus infections.


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## sponge (11/7/08)

Yea, with steeping its not a big problem about the temp dropping, as hber79 said, just leave the lid on and itll be right, or if you really want, you can wrap a towel around it


Sponge


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## Beer&Kebab (11/7/08)

I have a 1.5 ltr coffee plunger.. Should that be OK to do a small steep ? I have heard of them being used before, but since then I have read that you should not be too heavy handed with sparging which I guess a coffee plunger would be ? Any opinions ?


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## Slartibartfast (11/7/08)

I've read in some places that with cold steeping you need to use more grain? Has anyone else found this to be the case?


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## staggalee (11/7/08)

No.

stagga.


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## Slartibartfast (11/7/08)

staggalee said:


> No.
> 
> stagga.



Excellent, turns out I don't need to buy a thermometer this weekend then.


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## staggalee (11/7/08)

Slartibartfast said:


> Excellent, turns out I don't need to buy a thermometer this weekend then.


Get one next w/end then.
You`ll need it sooner than later.

stagga.


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## Slartibartfast (11/7/08)

staggalee said:


> Get one next w/end then.
> You`ll need it sooner than later.
> 
> stagga.



That was the plan - this weekend's spending was going to be big enough already.


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## Beer&Kebab (19/7/08)

How much grain is too much ? I see on the Craftbrewer website different percentages for different grains.. What do these mean ?


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## boingk (19/7/08)

Can't comment on the percentages, although if they are in a recipe then its the percentage of the total ingredient list. eg 4kg pils malt and 1kg Vienna Malt will come out as 80% Pils Malt, 20% Vienna. 

Adding grain to brews is common and can be taken to any level, form a mere 200g addition to enhance a kit & kilo style brew, a half-kilo or more to really step things up, or go the whole hog and convert to all-grain. I use around 150g in pretty much all my kit & kilo brews now because its easy and cheap and turns out well. Other brews will cop as much as a kilo or more, and this is reffered to as 'Partial-Mash Brewing' because you make up a considerable percentage of the ingredients with grain instead of extract. 

For example of that last point, I made a simple stout the other day using a Coopers Real Ale kit [good base malts and appropriate bitterness], 1kg dark dry malt, 500g light dry malt, 500g Crystal grain, 300g Choc grain & 100g Black Patent grain. The grains were mashed and strained, then the resulting liquor boiled and added to the fermenter along with the rest of the ingredients.

Hope this helps - boingk

EDIT: Hopping for the stout was 20g Goldings boiled for 20min in the primary, and 20g dry in secondary. Brew tasted great after fermentation...can't wait til its aged.


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