# Beer Made From Beer



## Hatchy (31/7/11)

I was having a chat with some blokes at the last case swap about beer adds & had a bit of a rant about the CD "made from beer" adds. I've got a suspicion that CD is made from water so had a chat to Smurto about it to see if he thought it could be done. He seemed to think that it could. The beer I used as brewing "water" was meant to be a big IPA but due to terrible efficiency it started at 1.054 (with 350g of columbus hopbursted). It tasted terrible from the fermenter so I figured we could use it for science instead of tipping it.

We used 9.6kg of wey pils & 400g pale crystal & got a pre boil gravity of 1.080 so definitely got extraction. I didn't sparge because I was somewhat limited with the amount of brewing water that I had. There's already more than enough hops in there so there won't be any kettle hops but I'll put it through 100g of galaxy in Kieren's hoprocket, & back onto the yeastcake it was on a couple of hours ago.

There's been several smells that I wouldn't normally associate with a brewday.

Phil has some photos & I took some that I'll post once I get them off my camera.


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## amiddler (31/7/11)

What temp did you preheat the strike water/beer to? Just thinking some of the alcohol in the beer might have evaporated.
Did you take the SG with a Hydrometer or Refractometer? The alcohol in the beer will effect the refractometer if you used that.
What effect would the alcohol have on enzyme action? Maybe the enzymes work harder whilst intoxicated <_< 
During the boil you will loose most of the alcohol from the strike beer, wouldn't you?

Personally if the strike beer tasted suspect then IMO it wont make a good beer. Great experiment thoe.

Drew


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## Bribie G (31/7/11)

Adds a new dimension to the term "strike Liquor"


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## Hatchy (31/7/11)

The beer was at about 80 when I mashed in, 35L of beer at 80 smells terrible.

Measured with a hydro for exactly that reason.

I wasn't expecting to make my best beer ever, we just wanted to see if it would work.


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## raven19 (31/7/11)

Classic. Still can't believe you actually did this mate.

Smurto mentioned late this arvo that the mash pH was fine too suprisingly.

I'm sure it will still taste better than CD... :icon_vomit:


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## Malted (31/7/11)

Let's hope that shit in does not equal shit out...


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## Synthetase (31/7/11)

pmsl at "35L of beer at 80 smells terrible" 

Really keen to hear how badly this turns out. If the red ale I knocked out today fails for some reason, I think I might make it the base of a barley wine just for shits and giggles.


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## geoffd (31/7/11)

A novel idea, but a few problems spring to mind...I'm sure there are plenty more pros & cons to consider.

(a) at 80 degrees, the alcohol from your brewing liquor may be evaporating/ed
(B) you may pass on whatever problems you had from your first batch, such as phenolics / acetylaldehyde etc.
&copy; was the yeast filtered out before boiling, I cant imaging boiled yeast being very pleasnt smelling or tasting if the vitamin supplement brewers yeast tablets is anything to go by.
(d) your yeast may not be as healthy having to acclimatise into a solution that "may" already contain alcohol, bigger pitching rate may resolve this but change ester profile.


Commend your adventurous spirit though, hope it works out instead of wasting a second brew day.


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## Tanga (31/7/11)

Hatchy said:


> There's already more than enough hops...



Who are you and what did you do with the real Hatchy?


> ...but I'll put it through 100g of galaxy in Kieren's hoprocket



Ah, there he is.


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## felon (31/7/11)

Interesting concept.


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## np1962 (31/7/11)

Let's hope this doesn't turn into your Summer Swap Beer :icon_vomit:


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## Effect (31/7/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Let's hope this doesn't turn into your Summer Swap Beer :icon_vomit:



You had to suggest it didn't you...


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## Hatchy (31/7/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Let's hope this doesn't turn into your Summer Swap Beer :icon_vomit:



Assuming it turns out ok it'll be my beer for the next OTT swap.


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## drsmurto (31/7/11)

Father Jack said:


> A novel idea, but a few problems spring to mind...I'm sure there are plenty more pros & cons to consider.
> 
> (a) at 80 degrees, the alcohol from your brewing liquor may be evaporating/ed
> (B) you may pass on whatever problems you had from your first batch, such as phenolics / acetylaldehyde etc.
> ...



a - 80C with a lid on in a HLT means that any ethanol that did boil off condensed on the lid and fell back in. We might boil some off during the boil but (insert chemistry lesson about the boiling points of mixed liquids followed by a lecture on hydrogen bonding) in reality, whether we did or didn't isn't really the point of this.
b - nothing wrong with the first beer, just over hopped to the wazoo. Needed more malt so this seems like a good solution! :blink: 
c - that was one of my concerns (other than pH and WTF were we thinking) but other than an unpleasant smell i figured at that OG we can hide a lot of flaws.
d - previous beer had an OG of 1.040 so not a big beer. With an OG of 1.080 and ~half the volume after the grain sucked up its share i think the pitching rate is not too bad.

But the proof is in the pudding as they say.

I was a little surprised to find the pH of the mash about where you'd want it given the pH of beer vs water. The buffering capacity of the grain is not to be underestimated.

The smell at mash in was unlike anything i have experienced. The completely unnecessary addition of mash hops (given what we were doing it seemed appropriate) was probably to be expected with Phil and Hatchy on the case! I just rolled my eyes.

So we are halfway to proving whether you can make beer from beer.


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## Hatchy (1/8/11)

I had a quick look before leaving for work & it's got a good looking krausen on it.


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## Effect (1/8/11)

That's just one pic for now. More to come. Looks as if we overshot our mash temp and had to cool the mash down a bit with some cold beer :huh: :lol:


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## joshuahardie (1/8/11)

Oh I am so subscribing to this one.

Keep us posted....


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## technoicon (1/8/11)

SWEET!!! :super: 

So wish I could have been there! lol

Save me a bottle!


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## Hatchy (1/8/11)

Awesome Fury said:


> SWEET!!! :super:
> 
> So wish I could have been there! lol
> 
> Save me a bottle!



I've got a suspicion that it was you that I was talking to at the swap when I thought of it.

I'll have some at the next swap so make sure you get over for it.


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## technoicon (1/8/11)

yes it was me. i also agreed to drive back there for one brew day. haha i dont remeber but mrs fury had a phone call organising it with her. LOL


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## raven19 (1/8/11)

Awesome Fury said:


> ... haha i dont remeber but mrs fury had a phone call organising it with her. LOL



Yeah you had just a couple of pints that night mate. :drinks: 

More pics chaps!


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## [email protected] (1/8/11)

i always wondered if the "made from beer" statement was true or not! great job fellas!


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## Effect (1/8/11)

HLT full of beer. Didn't smell very appealing, it reminded me of stale beer in a beer glass that I have left out over night.






PH paper test of the 'hot liquor'. As we had anticipated.






Hatchy doughing in.






Ritual mash hops. Galaxy (thanks Nige)






Ditto






Smurto giving the mash a good mix before checking the temp and pH






Hmm, seems ok...






Wait a second...let's check this again.






Wow...it _is_ ok.






The two pH paper tests of the mash of Beer made from Beer.


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## Effect (1/8/11)

I left part way through the mash...so no pictures from me thereafter. Hatchy should have some more happy snaps of the Beer made from Beer. 

Cheers


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## rotten (1/8/11)

I can see this reaching cult status if it's half drinkable :lol: 

great to see brewers using their initiative, and then some :chug:


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## Hatchy (1/8/11)

rotten said:


> I can see this reaching cult status if it's half drinkable :lol:
> 
> great to see brewers using their initiative, and then some :chug:



I can see this being the only time this ever happens but we'll wait & see what the resultant beer tastes like prior to final judgement.

Sorry Phil, I'm pretty sure I didn't get more photos after you left. I do have a couple of the HLT with a big frothy head though. I'll put that up tonight if I get a chance. I'll post a SG reading tonight as well if I get around to it.

I also should point out that Smurto & I should never use power tools together. I took some skin off my fingers getting the drill on the mill yesterday. We are possibly the 2 most useless blokes in Adelaide when it comes to tools. That drill may never come off the mill.


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## Lodan (1/8/11)

Really interesting thread; great work guys!


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## Hatchy (1/8/11)

I didn't get many photos but here's what I got. Photos posted sideways as always, for some reason I can turn them around but they still show sideways on AHB.

My ultra fancy brewstand & 72c pump.




Filling the HLT.




I've never seen a head like this on a HLT before.




Pre boil in the kettle.




Spent grain & hops.




It's at 1.055 at the moment so has dropped over 20 points in 1 day.It has to be one of the bitterest things I've ever tasted as well as being murky enough that it makes the Murray look clear. Mrs Hatchy normally has a taste of the hydro samples but she left this on alone. I'm thinking this will get an unhealthy dose of dry hops in about a week.


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## dj1984 (2/8/11)

LOL!!! i cant see this tasting any good :lol:


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## Gar (2/8/11)

Hatchy said:


> Mrs Hatchy normally has a taste of the hydro samples but she left this on alone.



It's certainly got a "unique" look about it :icon_vomit: haha

Great thread, I'm really looking forward to hearing the results

Kudos for giving it a go :beerbang:


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## Hatchy (2/8/11)

dj1984 said:


> LOL!!! i cant see this tasting any good :lol:



I didn't really expect it to, we just wanted to see if we'd get conversion (which we did).



Gar said:


> It's certainly got a "unique" look about it :icon_vomit: haha



It looked WAY worse than the photo showed.


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## technoicon (2/8/11)

yum yum


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## chantele (2/8/11)

Interesting. Looks like yuck. I get the beer from beer thing but what i dont get is why you didnt drink the first beer. Our too attemts so far have been horrible but we drank them all. bf was drinking it out of the bucket. Anyone ever make beer from grapes or fruit?
chantele


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## Hatchy (2/8/11)

If I drank the beer I wouldn't have had beer to make beer from. If I was low on beer supplies I would've drunk it but at the moment I've got 4 beers & a cider on tap as well as swap beers I haven't gotten to so it seemed like an ideal time to do it.


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## Tanga (2/8/11)

:icon_offtopic: 

How'd the cider turn out Hatchy?


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## Hatchy (2/8/11)

How dare you take this thread off topic!

I only have 4 taps so I've got no idea, its too cold for cider at the moment. I've still got the other one in the fermenter that I probably should rack too.


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## Tanga (2/8/11)

Well if it doesn't work out you could always try making beer from cider ^_^


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## Goofinder (2/8/11)

Tanga said:


> Well if it doesn't work out you could always try making beer from cider ^_^


Don't give him ideas!


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## Blackapple (2/8/11)

I wonder if you could apply this method and make beer from Carlton draught!

Probably not


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## Hatchy (2/8/11)

Blackapple said:


> I wonder if you could apply this method and make beer from Carlton draught!
> 
> Probably not



That was discussed at the case swap but was decided against mainly due to the expense. That would make it beer that was made from beer that had already been made from beer which would add an extra dimension.


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## Aleosaurus cervisiae (2/8/11)

I reckon the results of this experiment will be good. I use my crappy beers to cook my stews (happens more often than I care to admit), and they are yummy. I use pale meat, browned meat, onion for bittering, carrots, late addition garlic for flavour and aroma...


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## Blackapple (2/8/11)

That would be beer cubed then!


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## Gar (2/8/11)

Hatchy said:


> That was discussed at the case swap but was decided against mainly due to the expense. That would make it beer that was made from beer that had already been made from beer which would add an extra dimension.











*Brewception* h34r:


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## Synthetase (3/8/11)

Brewception.

Now with horses. MORE horses!


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## Hatchy (4/8/11)

The 1st lot of dry hops just went in. Just a lazy gram per litre of columbus to start off with.

It's stayed at 1.050 for 2 days now.


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## Blackapple (3/9/11)

What was the result of this experiment?


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## ben_harvey (4/9/11)

Hatchy said:


> If I drank the beer I wouldn't have had beer to make beer from.




Yeah you would have - just an extra filtration stage.


Isn't that how they filter CD? :icon_vomit:


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## Hatchy (4/9/11)

Blackapple said:


> What was the result of this experiment?



It's still in the fermenter. It was still at 1.045 last time I checked, I've got no idea why it would've stopped that high. I was planning on bottling this but if it's not going to get lower than this then it'll go in a keg. I should really rack it but I haven't had much spare time recently, next weekend will be the 4th weekend in a row that I haven't brewed.


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## jyo (3/10/11)

Any news on this, blokes?


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## mr_tyreman (3/10/11)

Havent laughed this hard in a long time, good on you blokes for trying something new!


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## NickB (3/10/11)

Either it was so good he's still drunk, or it was so bad he's dead......!


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## jyo (3/10/11)

NickB said:


> Either it was so good he's still drunk, or it was so bad he's dead......!



Or under a table writhing with stomach cramps :lol:


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## NickB (3/10/11)




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## Hatchy (4/10/11)

NickB said:


> Either it was so good he's still drunk, or it was so bad he's dead......!



Or I'm that lazy that it's still in the fermenter waiting to be tipped on the lawn.

I could keg it & take it to AABC & the case swap if anyone wants to try it but the hydrometer samples have been less than promising.


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## Blackapple (4/10/11)

You have to at least taste it and let us know.......Baited breath


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## drsmurto (4/10/11)

Hatchy said:


> Or I'm that lazy that it's still in the fermenter waiting to be tipped on the lawn.
> 
> I could keg it & take it to AABC & the case swap if anyone wants to try it but the hydrometer samples have been less than promising.



I'm keen to taste it so don't tip it. Can you tap some off out of the fermenter and pass on to Raven at your next BJCP meeting?


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## the_new_darren (4/10/11)

What was the final gravity?

cheers

the_new_darren


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## Tanga (4/10/11)

Hatchy said:


> Or I'm that lazy that it's still in the fermenter waiting to be tipped on the lawn.
> 
> I could keg it & take it to AABC & the case swap if anyone wants to try it but the hydrometer samples have been less than promising.



A couple of bottles will probably be enough. =)


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## Deebo (4/10/11)

Maybe you can sell it 'Aussie Fully Sick' and give Aussie Cool a run for its money


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## the_new_darren (4/10/11)

Sorry, I probably missed this.......did it ferment at all?


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## Hatchy (4/10/11)

the_new_darren said:


> Sorry, I probably missed this.......did it ferment at all?



From memory it started at 1.080 & last time I checked it was at 1.045 so it did convert in the mash & ferment. I was expecting it to go lower than 1.045 though.


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## Nevalicious (4/10/11)

Hatchy said:


> From memory it started at 1.080 & last time I checked it was at 1.045 so it did convert in the mash & ferment. I was expecting it to go lower than 1.045 though.




You said the hydro samples weren't promising??

Is that, it hasn't gone lower than 1.045 and tastes too sweet or it's really does taste like shit...?

Like Smurto said, bring a couple of bottles to the BJCP meeting this Thursday. Carbed or uncarbed


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## the_new_darren (4/10/11)

That is an interesting observation and thank you to anyone who took part in the experiment.

Is it possible that the mash temps and the boil failed to remove higher alcohols that inhibited yeast growth? 

Is it that the "base-line" reading represents ~0.01 gravity and that the resultant beer fully fermented?

More non-fermentables?

cheers
the_new_darren

Edit; What was the fermentation potential (ie expected OG-FG) given the grain bill


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## Hatchy (5/10/11)

Nevalicious said:


> You said the hydro samples weren't promising??
> 
> Is that, it hasn't gone lower than 1.045 and tastes too sweet or it's really does *taste like shit*...?
> 
> Like Smurto said, bring a couple of bottles to the BJCP meeting this Thursday. Carbed or uncarbed



I'll fill a couple of stubbies & bring them along, they won't be carbed but I'm not sure it'll make much of a difference.



the_new_darren said:


> That is an interesting observation and thank you to anyone who took part in the experiment.
> 
> Is it possible that the mash temps and the boil failed to remove higher alcohols that inhibited yeast growth?
> 
> ...



It's quite possible that there was alcohol left over from the previous batch. I would've thought it would boil off but Smurto seems to think it may not. He knows more about science than I ever will so I'm willing to believe him.

The grain bill was 10kg wey pils mashed with 35L of beer, I didn't sparge because I didn't have any beer left to use as sparge beer.

If at some point I end up with too much beer to drink but feel the need to brew I reckon we could give this another shot but maybe make the original batch a better beer to see if the beer made from that beer turns out better. As it stands at the moment I'm closer to buying a slab of coopers than I am to trying this again due to a couple of failed batches.


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## big78sam (5/10/11)

Nevalicious said:


> Like Smurto said, bring a couple of bottles to the BJCP meeting this Thursday. Carbed or uncarbed




make sure you post everyone's feedback here...


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## Nevalicious (5/10/11)

big78sam said:


> make sure you post everyone's feedback here...



Can do. I'll most likely be posting photos of everyone having a spew in the backyard...


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## jayse (5/10/11)

Hatchy said:


> From memory it started at 1.080 & last time I checked it was at 1.045 so it did convert in the mash & ferment. I was expecting it to go lower than 1.045 though.



You could use this beer again to make beer from beer from beer :unsure:


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## Supra-Jim (5/10/11)

jayse said:


> You could use this beer again to make beer from beer from beer :unsure:



If you did this and no-chilled it, it would truly be "beer cubed".

Cheers SJ


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## Hatchy (5/10/11)

jayse said:


> You could use this beer again to make beer from beer from beer :unsure:



& keep going with the batch size getting smaller & smaller until there's nothing left.


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## AussieJosh (5/10/11)

if there is any left and you have a empty keg laying around i would love to see it show up at the swap! 

As long as its not undrinkable!?


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## mkstalen (5/10/11)




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## technoicon (5/10/11)

can we call it footscray Draught?

I think we need to do Slow Motion Video for a swap Ad. :lol:


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## Northside Novice (5/10/11)

stienberg said:


> View attachment 48852



haha nice one 
so would that be piss made from beer made from beer ?
good ol bear luvs it doesnt he !


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## ekul (13/10/11)

Hatchy, can your next experiment be whether VB is beer made from piss please?


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