# Ag Or Keg?



## thelastspud (23/8/09)

Hey everyone hows it going? 
Ive been making beer for a year or so now using kits sometimes with speciality grains mini mashes
and i was wondering whats the better next step. 
Should i get a AG setup and keep bottling my beer?
Or buy a kegging system and keep making kit beer. I do plan to do both eventually but i can only afford to do one change this year. 
What do you think add the most enjoyment to home brewing?


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## gregb (23/8/09)

Kegs.


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## xomz (23/8/09)

I'm actually in the same situation. 

I've been doing partials for around 8 months now & am probably going to go with a keg setup in the next couple of weeks, as I've suddenly gotten the sh!ts with bottling every fortnight


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## Thommo (23/8/09)

Not trying to be a smart arse, but do both. They are both really worth it.

If I was to pick one, I'd say AG 1st, kegging 2nd. But TBH this is one of those questions where some people will swear blind that kegging is the next best step, and others who say AG is the next best step.

If you're really over bottling then do the kegs, if you don't mind it too much, AG for sure.

Thommo.


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## parrja (23/8/09)

I'd say kegs. AG + bottling would be very time consuming. You can also gradually slide across from extract to partial to AG as you get more equipment and experience.

I do 2/3 partials which can be done on my stove in a 15 litre pot. Once the kids are a bit older I'll go to full AG.

There's no going back to bottles after having a keg system!


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## muckey (23/8/09)

firstly - it depends!

I went kegs before AG mainly because if I wasn't kegging I probably wouldn't still be brewing.

If you are happy with the beer you are brewing then go for the keg setup. Keep an eye out on this forum for members selling or giving away gear and also look for a cheap fridge as well. That way you may achieve a keg setup and AG sooner than you think as you dont have to make either setup overly expensive to start with, just get the basics then you can add to it over time.

have a look at the search function as well (the google option works best) as the question has been asked before


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## crundle (23/8/09)

Hi Greg,

In my opinion, it should be to go AG first. 

I went kegging first, but didn't know what I was missing while brewing kits. No offence to the kit people intended, but going AG has opened a new door to the whole beer brewing experience. The difference is huge in my opinion. Now I still turn out a kit or two of Coopers Cervaza in summer to keep up with demand from the family, but for really flavoursome beers, you cannot go past extract or AG. You get a level of control that you cannot get with kits.

You can go traditional 3 vessel system or BIAB, and there are benefits of each system. You will need to make your purchase with an eye on the future though so you will not outgrow your system, but be able to use what you have purchased now in a potential future system. Do your research first, and let us know what your intended brewing is to be - ie single batches of fairly normal beers, or double batches of triple decoction mega alcohol beers - there are many of us here who will help try to steer you in the right direction.

Kegging is cool, but given the choice of drinking kegged kits or bottled AG brews, the choice for me is very clear indeed!

cheers,

Crundle


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## cliffo (23/8/09)

I'd go with the kegs first.

I know that if I hadn't moved from bottling to kegging when I did I woudn't still be home brewing and certainly would never have progressed to AG.

Kegs all the way!

cliffo


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## buttersd70 (23/8/09)

It's actually a harder question that it seems....
I personally went AG first, followed very soon after by kegs.
I honestly believe that AG brewing added a whole dimension to my beer...however, a friend was still doing kits (edit: at that point in time), and went kegs first. Theres definately something about being able to pour a crystal clear pint off of a keg.....
My suggestion....kegs, _and _keep advancing in your brewing techniques. If atm you are using kits and spec grains (which aren't mini mashes, btw...it's not a mash unless you are using base grain and converting starch to sugar  ), you have the possibility of advancing in technique without having to outlay cash. ie, you can break free of the kit tittie, and do extract brews with unhopped extract and steeped spec grains, just with the stuff you would find in your average kitchen....so you still have room to move and improve, without having to fork out $$....

So I would advise kegs for the time being, and look at other brewing options that don't require outlay...then when you do move into AG, you will have a wealth of experience from extract brewing and/or partials, as well as kegs. Win win.  


2c only.


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## muckey (23/8/09)

so butters you reckon he should try for an expensive AG setup like you've got


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## manticle (23/8/09)

If you're looking at improving the quality of your beer at any point then I would say AG. Bottling is less of a pain than everyone makes it out to be and you're putting equipment before ingredients and process. It's a bit like asking 'should I buy a shiny new pan or concentrate on making a kickarse omelette with free range organic eggs using pans I've already got?'

Add to that that if you think your way around problems you can set yourself up for All Grain brewing for limited outlay (I did) and you may find you have some change to build on for the kegging outlay at a later point.

Take this with a grain of salt - every one's opinion on this will differ (and already has).

This is not to say that all grain is the holy grail - you need to be making good beer with good processes for any change in method/ingredients to make much of a difference and a well made kit beer will often win over a poorly made grain beer. I'm assuming you know that.


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## DJR (23/8/09)

Cheap AG setup (can be done quite easily with BIAB or a simple burner, big pot or two and something to mash in) and then kegs i reckon


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## Bribie G (23/8/09)

OK now here's one from left field. Actually I'm surprised Butters didn't invoke me on this.

Bottling is a total PITA. I was out of brewing for about 15 years and mostly because of the grind of washing 30 bottles, sterilising bottles, priming bottles, filling bottles, capping bottles. A world of pain. So when I got back into it last year I went to 2L PET bottles.

Only 12 per brew, cheap to obtain, easy to store and handle. It made my bottling sessions so much easier. I regarded my PETs as being mini kegs in their own right, one PET will give you a three pint session, or six pints for two PETs or nine pints........... :huh: 

Then I went AG, and after several months went Keg, and they have all gone to the tip, although I still bottle some brews in 750s that I don't particularly want on tap such as stouts and long-keeping Pilseners etc. It's not such a pain if it's only an occasional bottling session.

Worth consideration as a 'transitional arrangement'

Ok here's that piccie to keep Butters happy


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## Cocko (23/8/09)

I would rather bottle AG then keg Kit beer...

As DJR said, BIAB is a cheap and easy way to get into AG... who knows, crunch the numbers you might be able to afford both.

2c.


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## manticle (23/8/09)

I must be in the minority. Bottling is no more a PITA for me than hand grinding 6+kg of grain, washing and sanitising every vessel, spoon and airlock, cutting wood for my burner, boiling extra wort because my pots are too small for the full volume, waiting for everything to cool in my ice bath, scooping out 6kg + water absorption worth of spent grain, checking my hydrometer to make sure ferment is working, low tech temp control (read ice bath again) for lagers and all the other things that go with making my beer.

The reason I don't mind it so much is because part of what attracts me to homebrewing (besides the end product) is the hands on approach to process and the direct relationship between me and the end product. It's like digging in the garden to plant veges. I don't have a bobcat and it might be hard work with a spade but there's something satisfying involved.


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## churchy (23/8/09)

If you plan on doing one now, how long will it be before you do the other? I went AG first and less than 12months I have a keg set up.I'm glad I went AG first I still had to drink all my kit beers first before buying kegs, now that I have got rid of my bottles I have heaps of storage space.



Andrew


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## buttersd70 (23/8/09)

Muckey said:


> so butters you reckon he should try for an expensive AG setup like you've got


Yeah, how much was it in total? about 40 bucks, plus the mill? 

I'm the ultimate tightarse.....I don't exagerate when I say $40 for my inital setup (which, coincidently, I'm still using).

So there really is no reason not to do both. Shiny shiny bling is nice to look at, but my system, as ugly as it is, produces some damn fine beer (imho).



BribieG said:


> Ok here's that piccie to keep Butters happy


Ilove that piccie. :lol:


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## muckey (23/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Yeah, how much was it in total? about 40 bucks, plus the mill?
> 
> I'm the ultimate tightarse.....I don't exagerate when I say $40 for my inital setup (which, coincidently, I'm still using).
> 
> ...




I think that's the point. You dont have to start AG or kegging with all the bling as long as your system works. Once you get started on either, you can add bits as you can afford.

It's all well and good asking for others opinions but really you need to make up your own mind in the end


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## Maxt (23/8/09)

I would suggest finding a brew club and trying some AG beer. The interweb may be useful, but it's also full of contradictory advice and some pointless arguments  . If you are not near a club, I'm sure someone on this forum will be near you, and wouldn't mind you watching an AG session. One demo with a good brewer is worth months trawling online here.
That way, you can tell whether AG is for you. Like many on here, after tasting quality made AG, there's no turning back to kits again.

As for kegging, as Bribie said, there are other alternatives such as pet or even tap-a-draft systems that will ease the bottling blues.


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## Bribie G (23/8/09)

Yes life was so much simpler then  






:lol: :lol:


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## troopa (23/8/09)

Going AG is far easier then youd think.. getting kegging money out of SWMBO is far more difficult then youd think 
Id go keg and start playing round with BIAB or read some of Butters posts on his cheaper then logically possible setup

Tom


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## Aaron (23/8/09)

manticle said:


> I must be in the minority.



I'm the same. I have been all grain brewing for five or six years and am happily bottling. I had all the kegging gear at one point but decided to stay with bottles and sold it all again. I would say go al grain first. My experience was that my beer improved dramatically when making the jump.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't use kegs just that bottling isn't that bad.


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## Screwtop (23/8/09)

Up to you................better beer now.................or easier packaging now.

Screwy


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## buttersd70 (23/8/09)

Muckey said:


> You dont have to start AG or kegging with all the bling as long as your system works. Once you get started on either, you can add bits as you can afford.



Yeah, same point applies for the kegging....how long have I been running off $8 bronco taps, now?...... think it must be about 2 years (ish) saying I'm going to upgrade to cellis. :lol: 

Muckey and I have a standing joke....I use $8 picnic taps as my sole tap solution....every time he comes over, I pour him a _perfect _beer, and say "sorry about the crappy pour"... :lol: 

Max makes a good point about trying AG beers.....and Muckey makes a good point about wether you are happy with what you're producing at the moment. Look, theres pros and cons on both sides, and everyone will have different opinions based on their _own _experiences....in my case, I was at the point of full extract brewing before it even came up....and theres less of a leap between extract and AG than there is kit and AG.....and ironically, I've started to do more stuff in bottles lately, so I can have more variety, cos I can only fit 2 kegs in the fridge.....so it's all a matter of what will work for _you_.

But as far as going to AG.....it's only really worth it if you've got a handle on your cold-side technique. Otherwise you'll just be trying to polish a turd.....if you're ready to move on, then you're ready...if your kit beers are tasting wrong to you, because you're looking for something better (as opposed to bad management of cold-side techniques, ie yeast helath and fermentation controll), then move on to that....

sorry for the rambles. They're Hobgoblin induced....


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## Sammus (23/8/09)

AG for sure. Kegs is convenience. I have kegs and I AG. I have started bottling more than kegging, but I'd never go back to kits.


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## Spartan 117 (23/8/09)

If spending is an issue I'd put it down to what you already have. With AG all you really need most likely is a bigger pot and a mash tun, the mash tun can be made for under $50 if you look around and the pot can be sourced cheaply again if you look around. Where as if you are going to move onto keg you need a working fridge, kegs, regulator, gas, beer line and a faucet of some sort.

If it was me I'd go AG first as in some situations it's cheeper and then move onto kegs when the spendings recover. ]

Also as someone said before, better to drink AG from a bottle that kit from a keg. 

Good Luck 

Aaron


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## manticle (23/8/09)

Unless the AG is bad AG. Whichever method you choose you need to make sure it's done well.

Echoing what I said earlier and what butters suggested too but it should not be overlooked. First step is making good beer, properly. Next step is making better beer, still properly. Final step is making good beer properly and more easily.

I might shut up now.


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## technocat (23/8/09)

I went kegs and filtering about a year before jumping into AG brewing. I found a big improvement in my beer. Now before anyone goes off the deep end I will qualify that statement by saying I don't like residual yeast in beer, nor do I like cloudy beer. To be honest I have bottled beer and kegged from the same batch and found the kegged beer shits all over the bottles. If bottles and all its inherent labour is your thing I don't have a problem with it, I went through the same phase for years and kegs for me was a quantum leap forward, and as with AG brewing another great leap forward in the quest for making great beer. During the past year at considerable expense I have been quietly working away on my brew rig to refine the method of making beer. I guess it all boils down to where you want to go first.

Cheers


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## mckenry (23/8/09)

Sammus said:


> AG for sure. Kegs is convenience. I have kegs and I AG. I have started bottling more than kegging, but I'd never go back to kits.



Kegs for sure. I have kegs and I AG. Bottling is a pain in the arse. I'd never go back to bottling. :lol:


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## buttersd70 (23/8/09)

manticle said:


> Unless the AG is bad AG. Whichever method you choose you need to make sure it's done well.



Minor anecdote....

The absolute 100% _*worst *_beer I've *ever *had (_excluding _infections) was an *AG* beer. Poorly concieved, poorly executed. Horrid. Nasty. Ferrel. Uggh. No apparant infection, just....nasty. Badly concieved recipe, totaly unbalanced, very, _very _poor cold-side control. I can actually taste it as I describe it....ugh.

(not mine, btw h34r: )


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## Mattese (23/8/09)

I'm on the verge of trying my first AG. I've been in a similar position, however I started on kegs as soon as possible. Scrubbing bottles, sanitizing them, filling... You know the drill. It pained me

I'm really looking forward to now trying to perfect a beer to put into them!!


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## warra48 (23/8/09)

What do you believe is really your priority?

Doing your best to advance your brewing and making the best beer you can, or the convenience of serving from a keg?

I'm a pretty basic AG brewer. I spend 5 to 6 minutes at my MillMaster (my most expensive piece of equipment) to grind about 5 kg of grains. I use a 25 litre cooler as a mashtun, and a 40 litre aluminium stock pot as my kettle. I use a TempMate to control my fermentation temperature. I'm more than happy with what is really a fairly basic system. Bottling a batch only takes about 1 to 1 hours, and that's if I do it in stubbies. Shorter if it's longnecks. I really don't mind doing it.

On the flipside, whenever kegs are recommended, we rarely hear about the stuffing around with CO2 gas, lines, fonts and taps, and the inevitable cleaning of all that equipment. Does kegging really save that much time?

For me, making beer I love is my priority, and I'm happy to keep bottling.


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## muckey (23/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Minor anecdote....
> 
> The absolute 100% _*worst *_beer I've *ever *had (_excluding _infections) was an *AG* beer. Poorly concieved, poorly executed. Horrid. Nasty. Ferrel. Uggh. No apparant infection, just....nasty. Badly concieved recipe, totaly unbalanced, very, _very _poor cold-side control. I can actually taste it as I describe it....ugh.
> 
> (not mine, btw h34r: )



bad brewing practice is bad brewing practice no matter how you try and polish it. and butters is too much of a tighta*se to upgrade his gear to a nice shiny tap on his fridge and keeps insisting on handy me those shoddily poured pints from that bronco tap h34r: .

but seriously, I'm glad I spent time through kits to nail the cold side of brewing before moving to AG. I think I brew far better beer now than I ever have ( leave it alone butters :lol: ) but I honestly dont see why you cant have both if you are a little patient and thrifty with what you get. You dont have to purchase everything in 1 go for example bribie bought and filled his kegs weeks before the rest of his keg setup arrived. Butters got his AG setup by being vigilant on forums etc.

why does it even have to be a choice?


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## muckey (23/8/09)

warra48 said:


> On the flipside, whenever kegs are recommended, we rarely hear about the stuffing around with CO2 gas, lines, fonts and taps, and the inevitable cleaning of all that equipment. Does kegging really save that much time?



takes 20 min to wash keg and lines and another 10 minutes to rack a brew into a keg.

does take a bit of time to setup initially but use a calculator and your almost there. Once it's balanced the first time there's nothing further to do.

I'll admit gas is probably the bigggest ongoing expense with kegs.

Simply put, kegging, like bottling isn't exclusive. As butters said earlier some brews still get bottled and some kegged


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## geoff_tewierik (23/8/09)

I went kegs before AG. I haven't done a kit beer since the early '90's, and was starting from scratch again.

Worked out good for me as I ended up doing a couple of wort kits to fill my kegs (which still have beer in them), and did my first AG on my own system two weeks ago. Just waiting on a new fermentation fridge (actually a kegerator) to ferment it, and then all three kegs will go into the kegerator.

Cheers,

GT


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## Bribie G (23/8/09)

geoff_tewierik said:


> I went kegs before AG. I haven't done a kit beer since the early '90's, and was starting from scratch again.
> 
> Worked out good for me as I ended up doing a couple of wort kits to fill my kegs (which still have beer in them), and did my first AG on my own system two weeks ago. Just waiting on a new fermentation fridge (actually a kegerator) to ferment it, and then all three kegs will go into the kegerator.
> 
> ...



When you die and go to heaven there will be a 3 keg Kegerator on every street corner. When you die and go to hell, only Satan has a Kegerator, in his private office


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## Maxt (23/8/09)

Another point that really came out when I was doing the BJCP course some time ago, was how easily beer can be skunked and/or otherwise compromised through exposure to light. If your stored beer is copping sunlight it won't be good for long (In my experience).

As for kegging, You can also control the effects of oxidisation more if you transfer and keg properly. This goes a long way to making your beer better (especially over time).

I think Butters was also mentioning the importance of fermentation and yeast etc. You can do AG without temp controlled fridges but it's hit and miss, and you are a slave to the seasons (Ie Lagers in winter, and forget fermenting anything in summer in your 45degree shed..unless you can keep up the frozen drink bottles every few hours).


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## bowie in space (23/8/09)

I drink bottled extract beers.

After reading on this site for nearly a year now plus reading various books, the AG path seems to be the obvious choice after extract and mini mash brewing. I've brewed hit n miss kits, have become better since extracting and am over the moon at going AG next month when my birthday rolls around. I am going the BribieG model of a 40L Birko urn and BIAB, and can't wait.

Until reading this post however it seems that AG can turn very ugly, now I am having second thoughts about the priority of my set up. Cash being the major issue with my progress.

My priority is currently;

1) AG BIAB, followed very closely by
2) Chest Freezer with temp control for fermenting
3) Esky for a "proper" mash tun using the urn as my HLT
4) Kegging

I don't mind cleaning bottles all that much, but have to ask the question, is kegging an extract beer going to satisfy my taste buds more than a bottled AG beer?

Although I am pretty set on my intentions, it certainly looks like I'm going to have to research a little more...

Bowie


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## Zwickel (23/8/09)

for me it is a simple question, wether to drink good beer from bottle, or not so good beer from keg.

Of course, drinking good beer from keg would be optimal, although the WAF (= wife acceptance factor) has to be considered.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## buttersd70 (23/8/09)

Bowie,
fwiw, my take on your order is as follows...
1/ _something _(fridge, freezer, swmbo getting up at all hours of the night to swap the hot/cold bottles, to avoid a beating... :lol: ) to control your ferment temps.
2-4/ everything else in no particular order.

2c.


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## chappo1970 (23/8/09)

Go AG IMHO. Producing great beer will give you the encouagement to get into kegging. Basically that's what I did.




buttersd70 said:


> Minor anecdote....
> 
> The absolute 100% _*worst *_beer I've *ever *had (_excluding _infections) was an *AG* beer. Poorly concieved, poorly executed. Horrid. Nasty. Ferrel. Uggh. No apparant infection, just....nasty. Badly concieved recipe, totaly unbalanced, very, _very _poor cold-side control. I can actually taste it as I describe it....ugh.
> 
> (not mine, btw h34r: )



Are you sure Butters???? Or was it Muckey's????


Chers
Chappo


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## BoilerBoy (23/8/09)

Zwickel said:


> for me it is a simple question, wether to drink good beer from bottle, or not so good beer from keg
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



Thats it in a nutshell!
Good beer is good beer and average beer is average beer no matter how its dispensed.

Beer first delivery second IMHO

Cheers,
BB


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## bowie in space (23/8/09)

Yes Butters, temp control is high on the agenda, along with tasting my first AG.  

Kegging and other shiny bling can wait B) 

Cheers
Bowie


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## Cocko (23/8/09)

My flow, accidentally.. but in hind sight seems good for many reasons:

Coopers kit - 5 batches>more fermenters - had to up production>*Temp control! - was sick of riding the belts *!>AG - BIAB now 3V>Kegs...

Again 2c. 

Your coin spend it how you see fit!


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## beersatan (23/8/09)

AG can be pretty cheap to start. I currently brew in a BIAB/partial way and forked out SFA on a 20L pot with the odd piece of material/bag (brewed while drunk and just burnt another - no beer harmed in the process though).

Bottles take weeks and probably months to condition properly and when bottling found myself drinking beer cordial way too much.
I've never kegged a kit beer but in my case kegs enable grain to brain so much quicker and my first preference.
If I brew too much and bottle the leftovers that don't fit in the keg I find the beers lose the shine of the amber nectar that flow from my taps.
You can also measure your doses better with the tap and if you decide to have a dozen jugs or a dozen ponies the choice is yours.

To the tap!


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## muckey (23/8/09)

Chappo said:


> Are you sure Butters???? Or was it Muckey's????



actually I'm not so sure it was an AG brew. I thought it might have been the "special" bottle you sent down here for butters h34r: 
....runs away to don Chappo resistant flame suit.........


edit: speelingck


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## raven19 (23/8/09)

I would go AG first then Kegs second.
AG setup can be cheap... use the $$$ for the kegs.
2c.


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## Effect (23/8/09)

raven19 said:


> I would go AG first then Kegs second.
> AG setup can be cheap... use the $$ for the kegs.
> 2c.



+1

go AG...

then go kegs

then go herms

then go several kegs and taps

 it never stops


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## Cocko (23/8/09)

Run a poll! h34r:


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## arsenewenger (23/8/09)

I would go AG first , sayng that I dont keg but i do AG , The things that stop me from kegging are the fact that I worry having cold beer on tap all the time ie if its ready i will drink it as appose to thinking I mihgt have a beer tonight and chucking a couple of bottles in the fridge for a couple hours and then stopping. Also I have plenty of mates who like to sample my beers as it is having it on tap would me a party at my house way to often and then having to brew more and more to keep up the supply , dont get me wrong I love it but prefer to bre for me and SWMBO not anyone who knows I have kegs

2c


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## Bribie G (23/8/09)

Would you believe there have been 50+ posts on this in one afternoon, obviously a passionate subject. On balance I'd go AG and enjoy the great beers however you choose to serve them. :super:


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## thelastspud (24/8/09)

Thanks for all the different advice. 
the message that comes through the strongest from all of your posts is make good beer. 
so Ill concentrate on that and go all grain first and make a cheap AG setup. ive already got a good esky
just need to get a big pot and something to boil it with dont think i can boil 15litres+ on the stove.
thanks for all your thoughts.


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## Thirsty Boy (24/8/09)

think only one person has mentioned it so far - so I will again.

Kegging is easier than bottling - but not all that much once you bugger around with all the bits and bobs. BUT kegging should also improve the quality of your beer. Screwing up the packaging and carbonation of beer is a major way that good HB can be made bad. Infections, over/under carbonation, exposure to light, exposure to oxygen, improper storage of bottles... all less likely to happen if you keg. I think that the improvements you can get from going from bottling to kegging, are on the order of the improvements you can make by going from extract to AG.

I think that kegging is worth doing, because it can and should improve your beer, is easier than bottling and gives you the sheer pleasure of beer on tap at home.

That said - I don't know if you have fermentation temperature control. If you dont, then that is first, first by a long way. Going AG or going keg if you don't have controlled temp for your fermentation, is a waste of time.

Temp control
Kegging
AG

with temp control waaay further up the list than either of the other two


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## manticle (24/8/09)

A lot of really good commercial beers are bottle conditioned. Undoubtedly they have resource to better equipment (including filtration) than I do but I'm not sure the suggestion that bottled beer is equivalent in scale to extract beer is valid. If you follow good process you can have unskunked, uninfected, unoxidised, clear, bright, properly carbonated, bottled beer.


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## Thirsty Boy (24/8/09)

manticle said:


> A lot of really good commercial beers are bottle conditioned. Undoubtedly they have resource to better equipment (including filtration) than I do but I'm not sure the suggestion that bottled beer is equivalent in scale to extract beer is valid. If you follow good process you can have unskunked, uninfected, unoxidised, clear, bright, properly carbonated, bottled beer.



Of course you can - but I have to say that mentioning the commercial side of it is, in my book, a really good underlining of the potential pitfalls of bottling.

I for one, very often, so often in fact that I almost expect it these days - find that the bottled versions of micro brewed beers are vastly inferior to the kegged versions I try. It has gotten to the point where if I have a less than exciting bottle of micro brewed beer ... I pretty much dont count the experience. When I have the same unexciting experience from the beer out of a tap... then I am willing to say its not so great.

Some of my very favourite brewers, Goat, Holgate, Potters, Bright - all regularly taste average out of the bottle, but fantastic on tap. Hell, I thought that Murrays beers were kind of ordinary... till I had one on tap at the Local. Amazing beer.

Over carbonated, flat, oxidised, yeasty, infected - I've had all of that from bottled micro brews and sadly, not all that infrequently, but faults of that magnitude from kegged beers are pretty rare. And if the pros are a bit so so getting bottling right, why would home brewers be any less susceptible? Its not that you cant get bottled beer right, of course you can and many do - its just that I think you have a hell of a lot better a chance of getting kegged beer _consistently_ right.

For me those quality differences I so often see in bottled vs kegged micro-brew - are well and truly in the realm of "as big as going from extract to AG" So in my opinion, kegging instead of AG _nearly_ holds its own just from a quality of beer produced perspective, maybe not all the way, but close..... when you add in the fact that its easier and you get to have beer on tap as well, then it becomes a winner.

But its an opinion thing for sure - and this babble is just mine.

TB


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## Maxt (24/8/09)

I have had many many infected, oxidised and skunked commercial beers out of bottles. Even the pros find it difficult.


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## Wisey (24/8/09)

I keg..... Busted the bank account doing that so now I gotta live with extract beer..... Which isnt that bad.


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## manticle (24/8/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Of course you can - but I have to say that mentioning the commercial side of it is, in my book, a really good underlining of the potential pitfalls of bottling.
> 
> I for one, very often, so often in fact that I almost expect it these days - find that the bottled versions of micro brewed beers are vastly inferior to the kegged versions I try. It has gotten to the point where if I have a less than exciting bottle of micro brewed beer ... I pretty much dont count the experience. When I have the same unexciting experience from the beer out of a tap... then I am willing to say its not so great.
> 
> ...



I guess I was thinking more along the lines of European bottle conditioned beers (Chimay, Erdinger, Schofferhoffer etc) as well as Coopers. Maybe Aussie micros just need more practice?

Anyway I see your point.


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## 3G (24/8/09)

If you want to brew to make the best beer you can go AG.
If you drink loads and taste isnt as crucial as easy getting into a few beer go kegs


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## drtomc (24/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Would you believe there have been 50+ posts on this in one afternoon, obviously a passionate subject. On balance I'd go AG and enjoy the great beers however you choose to serve them. :super:



Yes, but what has struck me so far about the whole discussion is the lack of flamage.

I've switched to AG, and still use bottles. If you start with BIAB - as I am - then the incremental gear cost is small, which is great for the domestic budget.

T.


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## Darren (24/8/09)

If you are at the stage of partials, I would suggest kegging to be the next step:

Pros:
Hell of a lot quicker to sanitise and fill
Hell of a lot quicker to "dump" if you get an infection or make a shocker
Beer on tap
Less soldiers on the sink in the morning
No need for priming sugar or caps

Cons:
You will need to buy gas
You will need more than one keg
You will drink more

feel free to add to the list.

cheers

Darren


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## Wisey (26/8/09)

Pros: Its quickly turning into summertime, so you can bulk brew for that hard earned thirst :chug: 

Cons: I have 4 cornies and 1 tap - its a PITA each time you want to sample a different brew


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## mauriceatron (26/8/09)

+1 for kegging saving you grief in the summer time.

I know I start going through more beer in Spring / Summer, and that whole January / February heat wave thing really takes a toll on your fermenting if you don't have fermentation temp control or brew day if you're all grain. Standing anywhere near the Nasa burners with the temp above 30C in the sun (I brew outdoors) is just nuts. You do that once and it's NEVER AGAIN. So it's easy to run out of beer in the summer time if you're not prepared.

I can only fit one bucket in the fermentation fridge so in the dead of winter, so I also brew a couple of (good quality) kit lagers which can ferment happily at around 12~14C in the basement and they've been kegged now and are lagering for summer drinking. They'll happily sit there until January when I'll need them and they'll make fine lawnmower lagers.

So with all this extra beer that I brew at certain times of the year to cover either times that I can't brew or beers that I need to let condition for a long time, keg provide a nice convenient solution. They take up far less space than bottles do and it's easier to move one keg from the shed (or where ever you bottle) to it's final resting place than 25 bottles.

AG = better beer, but NOT guaranteed to be better beer. It does take practice so your first few brews may leave you wondering. Some people never seem to get it and go back to extract.

Kegs = convenience, better storage, and faster drinking (in case of emergencies, shake keg!!)


Cheers


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## brettprevans (26/8/09)

if you have a look at the other AG v Kegs threads you'll find that a few of them have a polls with sustantitive responses. that should help your decision.

my 2c. keg. easier to accumu;late your AG rig over a period of time.


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## sumpy7 (28/8/09)

I can't speak for AG, as I haven't yet ventured down the path but i can however highly recommend kegs.
I have been using kegs for about a year and love it. Once you have your gas pressures down pat your beer will be great. Plus you get the added benefit of a much faster turn around time per brew for times when you need a batch of beer in a hurry..
Good luck


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## sumpy7 (28/8/09)

Darren said:


> If you are at the stage of partials, I would suggest kegging to be the next step:
> 
> Pros:
> Hell of a lot quicker to sanitise and fill
> ...



Can definitely vouch for the fact you will drink more....and you will drink faster. Not sure if they're cons though.


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## Zwickel (28/8/09)

Smokey said:


> theyre pros, drinking more and faster prevents from kidney stones


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## Phoney (28/8/09)

Maybe im just ignorant or something, but I really dont see the attraction of kegs. Sure bottling can be a PITA, but then what happens when, like me, you want to fill up an esky full of beer to take camping for the weekend. Or to your mates house for a BBQ or dinner, or to the park, or to the beach etc etc? Id say only about 20% of my beer would be drunk at home. Do you guys never leave the house?

And do you then need one fridge for your kegs, and another for your fermenter?


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## Adamt (28/8/09)

If you're brewing for cheap plonk, go kegs.

If you're brewing because you love beer, go AG.

If both apply, spend the capital and do both.


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## matti (28/8/09)

Adamt said:


> If you're brewing for cheap plonk, go kegs.
> 
> If you're brewing because you love beer, go AG.
> 
> If both apply, spend the capital and do both.


easy the best answer yet


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## brettprevans (28/8/09)

since no one seems to thinks searching for the thread i mentione dis a good idea... ive done it. here


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## Thirsty Boy (29/8/09)

matti said:


> easy the best answer yet



Except that some of us have made reasonable arguments that its not strictly (or at least undebatably) true


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## Wisey (1/9/09)

With Kegs its also easier to empty 1 keg insted of 30 longnecks on the lawn for a failed brew.


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## lastdrinks (1/9/09)

kegs, its what got me into homebrewing, i still get a kick out of pouring beer from mine. and i enjoyed my beer when it was kitsnbits beer from my kegs too.


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## shark (16/9/09)

I just went through the same dilemma... Keg or Ag.

I chose KEG

And its the best thing I have ever done. Nothing better then pouring any icy cold beer straight from my fridge. Swear the beer tastes better too haha.


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## katzke (16/9/09)

I read the question and now I understand why it is taking 4 pages to answer the question. I bet it will take another 10 because there is no answer.

The question was not if all grain or kegging would be a better choice for making beer. The question was what would be more enjoyable. Joy is subjective so there is no answer.


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