# Ideas for closed transfer from basic HDPE fermenter



## goatchop41 (22/11/18)

So having recently made an NEIPA that was amazing for a grand total of 6 days in the keg before oxidising, I am wondering if anyone has come up with any inventive ways of doing closed transfers from their fermenter to keg, that doesn't involve a siphon.
I haven't been able to find any sort of tubing that will fit both the fermenter tap and a liquid disconnect, hence my issue...perhaps there is a push in fitting that might work? I haven't been able to find one though...

If all else fails, I guess that I will just have to get a Gen 2 Fermentasaurus for myself for xmas!


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## Fro-Daddy (22/11/18)

I've seen people push regular beer line inside silicon hose to connect tap to liquid ball lock


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## PTG (22/11/18)

Irrigation shops sell heaps of stainless and brass fittings as in reducers of all sizes


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## wide eyed and legless (22/11/18)

Fro-Daddy said:


> I've seen people push regular beer line inside silicon hose to connect tap to liquid ball lock


I have done it, anyone with the Valterra hand pump would have done it too.


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## sp0rk (22/11/18)

I've recently started removing my liquid out connector, removing the poppet valve, screwing the connctor back on then connecting my 1/2" silicon hose to the fermenter and the liquid out post
A good squirt of CO2 into the keg hopefully gets rid of most of the O2


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## goatchop41 (22/11/18)

sp0rk said:


> I've recently started removing my liquid out connector, removing the poppet valve, screwing the connctor back on then connecting my 1/2" silicon hose to the fermenter and the liquid out post
> A good squirt of CO2 into the keg hopefully gets rid of most of the O2



This is what I have also just had suggested to me by someone else.
It's a good idea, but I also see it as being not ideal, as you still have to re-insert the poppet and therefore allow some O2 ingress. I know that you can put the QD back on without the poppet in the post, but I have more kegs in the fridge than taps, so I change them around sometimes and therefore aren't keen on having to have a tap tied up for the whole time that the keg in question still has beer in it.
Perhaps I'll have to just have to attach a picnic tap to the other keg and accept that that particular tap will be tied up for the sake of good beer!


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## altone (22/11/18)

Another reason to use a kegmenter 
There used to be stepdown barbed joiners available but I can't remember where I got one from many years ago.
I do remember gravity transfer was awfully slow using it and opening the keg relief valve.


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## gap (22/11/18)

You could try one of these.
https://www.craftbrewer.com.au/gravity-filter-connector

Large tube goes over tap and attach beer line and disconnect to other end


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## S.E (22/11/18)

goatchop41 said:


> perhaps there is a push in fitting that might work?


12mm silicon from the fermenter tap, beer line from a disconnect on the keg outpost then join the two.

A beer line straight push connector will fit the beer line as normal then the silicon tube will push and hold firmly *over* the connector.

Then run a gas line from the keg up to the air lock grommet on the fermenter.
https://www.keg-king.com.au/catalog/product/view/id/114/s/push-in-joiner-8mm-x-8mm/category/48/

Edit: forgot to say, I cut the little screw tab off the middle of the joiner so the silicon slipped over the whole thing.


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## altone (22/11/18)

S.E said:


> 12mm silicon from the fermenter tap, beer line from a disconnect on the keg outpost then join the two.
> 
> A beer line straight push connector will fit the beer line as normal then the silicon tube will push and hold firmly *over* the connector.
> 
> ...



You've done this successfully? No big leaks or air sucked in?
If so, what a nice cheap option.


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## Smokomark (22/11/18)

A closed transfer is ideal but a few sqirts of co2 really doesn't purge the O2 out of the receiving keg.

I keep a keg full of starsan and pump the whole lot into a freshly cleaned keg. Your empty keg is then 100% co2. Invert and release prv to get rid of any remaining starsan then fill keg thru the liquid out post.
I've been doing this for years now and have noticed a big improvement in quality of my brews as they age a bit. Hop charecter stays brighter for longer. And no off oxidation flavours with long term aging of beers.


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## S.E (22/11/18)

altone said:


> You've done this successfully? No big leaks or air sucked in?
> If so, what a nice cheap option.


Yep, done it no problems. Its a bit slow but if you go away and forget about it the beer will only fill up the gas line to the level of the remaining beer in the fermenter.

The keg gas in post will be full of beer so careful gassing up the keg, preferably draw off some beer first.


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## Meddo (22/11/18)

Get one of these bottling wands and cut a two inch section off the main stem. Jam that section in the fermenter tap and some 8mm beer line in the other end of it with a normal disconnect on the other end of the beer line. Fits perfectly, no leaks.

https://www.cannonhillbrewing.com.au/product/blue-bottler-spring/


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## goatchop41 (23/11/18)

Meddo said:


> Get one of these bottling wands and cut a two inch section off the main stem. Jam that section in the fermenter tap and some 8mm beer line in the other end of it with a normal disconnect on the other end of the beer line. Fits perfectly, no leaks.



This is a great idea!
The idea above yours of bunging tubing over a push-in fitting sounds workable too, but I'd be even happier with the thinner beer line as opposed to the big silicone tubing that I have, as the flowing beer doesn't always completely fill the tube, which will obviously be also introducing some O2


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## Meddo (23/11/18)

Yeah that's why I like it, the beer line is thin enough that the first flow of wort will push all the air out. As I mentioned elsewhere, I normally discard that first bit of running just through a carb cap into a glass then disconnect the cap so the line is full of beer before it starts flowing into the keg, clears out the yeast debris from the tap and any slight risk of oxidation from the first flow of beer. If you get the length of the stem piece right you should be able to get the beer line all the way through it to butt directly up against the bottom of the tap, then you've got the thin line all the way from the fermenter to the keg.


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## Meddo (23/11/18)

Disclaimer: when I say "fits perfectly" that might be slight creative use of language - the beer line fits snugly enough that I've done this ten times or so without a drop leaking, but I wouldn't try it for a pressure transfer (although I can't imagine anyone would use a plastic fermenter tap on a pressure vessel anyway).


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## Wobbly74 (23/11/18)

Errrrr......


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## Meddo (23/11/18)

Ha, I stand corrected!


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## altone (23/11/18)

Meddo said:


> Yeah that's why I like it, the beer line is thin enough that the first flow of wort will push all the air out. As I mentioned elsewhere, I normally discard that first bit of running just through a carb cap into a glass then disconnect the cap so the line is full of beer before it starts flowing into the keg, clears out the yeast debris from the tap and any slight risk of oxidation from the first flow of beer. If you get the length of the stem piece right you should be able to get the beer line all the way through it to butt directly up against the bottom of the tap, then you've got the thin line all the way from the fermenter to the keg.



Ok just fiddled with a retired "blue bottler" sitting in the garage and it seems to work like a charm ( only pushing water around but still)
@Meddo to the rescue


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## OATY1KENOBE (24/11/18)

Try turning and old keg into a fermenter,.... easier,.... cleaner,... no oxygen,... EVER !!!


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## Kingy (24/11/18)

I do this works good


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## chesl73 (27/11/18)

I had a go with this. A butchered bottle filler with a 6mm line onto a disconnect. It worked but it was slow. Took a good 5 mins to transfer 7L. I had my hand on the PRV pulling it every 3 seconds or the CO2 was going to push the beer back out into the fermenter. Others have this experience?
Maybe the 6mm line is too narrow?


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## chesl73 (27/11/18)




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## fdsaasdf (27/11/18)

chesl73 said:


> I had a go with this. A butchered bottle filler with a 6mm line onto a disconnect. It worked but it was slow. Took a good 5 mins to transfer 7L. I had my hand on the PRV pulling it every 3 seconds or the CO2 was going to push the beer back out into the fermenter. Others have this experience?
> Maybe the 6mm line is too narrow?


I would suggest you just put a gas disconnect on the in post after you start filling to allow the pressure to equalise.


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## Meddo (28/11/18)

It is slow, yes. But just leave the prv open and then close it once the transfer is finished, rather than continually open-closing it.


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## Wobbly74 (28/11/18)

fdsaasdf said:


> I would suggest you just put a gas disconnect on the in post after you start filling to allow the pressure to equalise.


This is what I've found works best. Less back pressure than an open prv.


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## chesl73 (28/11/18)

Wobbly74 said:


> This is what I've found works best. Less back pressure than an open prv.



Could you elaborate on this please as I don't understand what you mean? I have the gas line/disconnect onto the gas post on the target keg and I have this at a low psi (~5 or so). I then (obviously) have the 'custom' line from the fermenter onto the beer 'in' line. So what do you mean 'put a gas disconnect on the in post after you start filling...'?


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## Dingo85 (28/11/18)

fdsaasdf said:


> I would suggest you just put a gas disconnect on the in post after you start filling to allow the pressure to equalise.


Is said gas disconnect connected to CO2?


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## Meddo (28/11/18)

chesl73 said:


> Could you elaborate on this please as I don't understand what you mean? I have the gas line/disconnect onto the gas post on the target keg and I have this at a low psi (~5 or so). I then (obviously) have the 'custom' line from the fermenter onto the beer 'in' line. So what do you mean 'put a gas disconnect on the in post after you start filling...'?


Why are you leaving the gas hooked up to the keg? You don't want any pressure in the keg (unless it's a closed loop siphon from a pressure fermenter / another keg) - leave the PRV open or as suggested above put a disconnect onto the gas post with no line attached - this will let the CO2 in the keg vent as it fills with beer.


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## BrutusB (28/11/18)

Sanatise Keg>Push out sanatiser with C02>Pressure on FV>Tap out via splicer>Keg liquid post >open vent valve on keg.

Another cheap reducer/splicer etc. from your tap tubing down to beer line:
https://www.kegland.com.au/stainless-splicer-6mm-x-13mm.html


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## Meddo (28/11/18)

Yeah, I don't think the original OP was asking about transferring from a pressure vessel - that's a slightly different process depending whether it's a pressure transfer or a closed-loop siphon.


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## chesl73 (28/11/18)

Meddo said:


> Why are you leaving the gas hooked up to the keg? You don't want any pressure in the keg (unless it's a closed loop siphon from a pressure fermenter / another keg) - leave the PRV open or as suggested above put a disconnect onto the gas post with no line attached - this will let the CO2 in the keg vent as it fills with beer.



Ah yes ok. I had the gas hooked up to the keg. I would think that might do this initially to remove O2 from the Keg then remove the disconnect? But yes, next time then, don't have the gas hooked up to CO2 and just leave the PRV open.


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## Meddo (28/11/18)

Yep, purge the keg with CO2 (fill with sanitiser and push it out the liquid post) and then vent that pressure out through the PRV or a gas disconnect before trying to fill with beer, and let it keep venting as it fills.

Don't forget to close the PRV or remove the gas disconnect vent once it's full...


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## chesl73 (28/11/18)

Meddo said:


> Yep, purge the keg with CO2 (fill with sanitiser and push it out the liquid post) and then vent that pressure out through the PRV or a gas disconnect before trying to fill with beer, and let it keep venting as it fills.
> 
> Don't forget to close the PRV or remove the gas disconnect vent once it's full...



Thanks Meddo.


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## Skillz (2/12/18)

Tried this out today and worked a treat


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## Rocker1986 (3/12/18)

This is next on my list of brewery upgrades, probably about the first thing I'll sort out once we move house in a couple of weeks. Just need one of those bottling wand thingys and some 6mm line which shouldn't be too hard to get.


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## Skillz (3/12/18)

I only had 5mm and it still worked ok, probably about 20mins to half an hour.
By the way Rocker it was a second batch of your red going in[emoji38]
The first didnt last too long, its the best beer i have in my folder so far.


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## Rocker1986 (3/12/18)

I haven't got any spare beer line anyway so I'll still have to buy more to do it, might as well go the 6mm. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out how full it is either as I keg my beers straight from cold crashing, condensation should give a pretty good idea especially if the transfer is slow.

Nice one mate, glad it's turned out well!


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## Skillz (3/12/18)

I had mine on a set of scales but i didnt need to, as you said it was very easy to tell by the condensation.


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## Rocker1986 (3/12/18)

Not a bad idea either though. 

Sent from my Agora 4G+ using Aussie Home Brewer mobile app


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## PTG (10/12/18)

Found a good way to do closed transfer from non pressurised. I used a silicon tube nozzle as a reducer to get down to beer line size. 
Found a bit of teflon tape was needed to get a good seal. 
Plan on straightening the taper on the tap nozzle as this should help it seal better.


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## wide eyed and legless (10/12/18)

PTG said:


> View attachment 114437
> View attachment 114438
> 
> Found a good way to do closed transfer from non pressurised. I used a silicon tube nozzle as a reducer to get down to beer line size.
> ...


Is that a caulking nozzle?


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## PTG (10/12/18)

Yup


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## theQuinny (11/12/18)

Here's my idea ...


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## Dingo85 (11/12/18)

I tried this today but it failed. Seeking feedback on how to fix it. Cheers!


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## Meddo (11/12/18)

Dingo85 said:


> View attachment 114451
> 
> I tried this today but it failed. Seeking feedback on how to fix it. Cheers!


Looks right to me, as long as the fermenter isn't sealed preventing air going in to replace the liquid. Only other thought is that hop debris can get stuck in the line or the disconnect or post springs.


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## Dingo85 (11/12/18)

Meddo said:


> Looks right to me, as long as the fermenter isn't sealed preventing air going in to replace the liquid. Only other thought is that hop debris can get stuck in the line or the disconnect or post springs.



Thanks mate there was a bit of hop debris in the hose. I’ll try again next week.


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## goatchop41 (11/12/18)

Dingo85 said:


> Thanks mate there was a bit of hop debris in the hose. I’ll try again next week.



This happened to me when I did it yesterday.

I had cold crashed with the fermenter leaning away from the tap, so it was all sweet for the first 10L. I was in a bit of a rush so tried to move the fermenter and it must have rustled up some of the dry hop that had crashed to the bottom, and that plugged the disconnect up. I had to take it off and clean it twice...
At that point I unscrewed it from the MFL side of the push in fitting and ran off about 100ml until it was nice and clear, then it was smooth sailing from there.

Lesson learned - don't touch the fermenter once it's draining, and only rack to the keg when I have at least half of an hour spare, as the 4mm ID line that I have doesn't flow quickly!!


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## wide eyed and legless (11/12/18)

theQuinny said:


> View attachment 114450
> 
> 
> Here's my idea ...


I am drinking now from a tap to tap transfer and equalising the pressure a carbonated beer ready to go straight from the cube.


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## Dozer71 (11/12/18)

theQuinny said:


> View attachment 114450
> 
> 
> Here's my idea ...


Did this work, because to me it would look like it will only fill to half way when the beer in each is level (closed loop). Unless you are applying more pressure to the left one to push it out.


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## goatchop41 (12/12/18)

theQuinny said:


> View attachment 114450
> 
> 
> Here's my idea ...



Trying to capture the CO2 from fermentation to draw back in during cold crashing? Otherwise I don't really see what the point of this setup would be in relation to closed transferring


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## theQuinny (12/12/18)

goatchop41 said:


> Trying to capture the CO2



Correct 



Dozer71 said:


> only fill to half way when the beer in each is level



Secondary will go on the floor. Already has dry hops in ready for transfer ... 



Dozer71 said:


> Did this work



Will let you know - going to give it a try this afternoon ...


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## Dozer71 (12/12/18)

theQuinny said:


> Secondary will go on the floor. Already has dry hops in ready for transfer ...
> ...


Makes much more sense. Originally saw beer in the lower tube (looks like brown liquid) and thought it was ready to go. Good luck with it.


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## theQuinny (12/12/18)

The bottom hose has wort in it to get the air out of it. The tap on the left is open & the tap on the right is closed, (so it wont blow off the hose under fermentation pressure...) 
The dry hops have been sitting the the secondary since day 1. Sitting in the cool, dark & under CO2, I hope they'll be ok when I transfer. I'll let it sit for another week or so before bottling.


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## theQuinny (12/12/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> equalising the pressure a carbonated beer



What does this mean mate ?


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## wide eyed and legless (12/12/18)

theQuinny said:


> What does this mean mate ?


Ferment in the primary, capture the gas in the secondary, transfer to the secondary equalising the gas (so it will transfer) with the gas ending up in the primary and using the gas in the primary to prevent a vacuum and keeping the beer carbed when serving from the secondary.

Most of the gas now in the primary

If you want to dry hop into the secondary.

This was an English bitter about 3 days after transfer.


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## theQuinny (12/12/18)

Excellent !


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## Gollywog (25/5/19)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Ferment in the primary, capture the gas in the secondary, transfer to the secondary equalising the gas (so it will transfer) with the gas ending up in the primary and using the gas in the primary to prevent a vacuum and keeping the beer carbed when serving from the secondary.
> View attachment 114461
> Most of the gas now in the primary
> View attachment 114460
> ...


WEAL, please start a YouTube channel. This looks amazing and I need more details. 
Have you posted anywhere else on the forum this setup?


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## wide eyed and legless (25/5/19)

Gollywog said:


> WEAL, please start a YouTube channel. This looks amazing and I need more details.
> Have you posted anywhere else on the forum this setup?


I think I first posted it on the ' Fermenting under pressure' thread.


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