# Two Biab Qs -- Keggle And Voile



## BooneDocks (16/8/09)

Hello from the States. I will see be embarking on my first try at BIAB soon. I joined this forum for all the info and expertise on BIAB. I have done some searches and didn't directly find answers so let me ask a couple of questions.

I will be using a keggle (15.5 gal or 60 liters) and a 5.5 gal or 23 liter boiled wort batch. The inside diameter of the keggle is approximately 15 inches or 38 cm. The whole that was cut in the top of the keg is 12 inches or 30 cm. When I told my brewclub memeber I was going to try BIAB in a keggle, they were worried that I would be unable to pull the bag out of the keggle -- that with the grain pushing all the way out to the sides of the keggle and being heavy and soaked it wouldn't allow me to pull it through the smaller opening in the top. Is this a concern?

Second, I really had no idea what Swiss Voile is so I just bought a sheer white polyester curtain that said voile in the description. I intend to boil the bag by itself to boil off any dye before using it in a brew. Should I have any concern that it is not Swiss Voile?

Thanks!


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## Spartan 117 (16/8/09)

BooneDocks said:


> Hello from the States. I will see be embarking on my first try at BIAB soon. I joined this forum for all the info and expertise on BIAB. I have done some searches and didn't directly find answers so let me ask a couple of questions.
> 
> I will be using a keggle (15.5 gal or 60 liters) and a 5.5 gal or 23 liter boiled wort batch. The inside diameter of the keggle is approximately 15 inches or 38 cm. The whole that was cut in the top of the keg is 12 inches or 30 cm. When I told my brewclub memeber I was going to try BIAB in a keggle, they were worried that I would be unable to pull the bag out of the keggle -- that with the grain pushing all the way out to the sides of the keggle and being heavy and soaked it wouldn't allow me to pull it through the smaller opening in the top. Is this a concern?
> 
> ...




Here is some info on BIAB that you might find *http://http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?autocom=ineo&showarticle=22*usefull. Also from my understanding of BIAB if you have to much grain in your bag you dont get as good efficency, if you're worried about the bag getting stuck due to excess grain then just have a ladle on stand by to scoop some out. 

Not to sure about the swiss voile stuff. 

Good luck 

Aaron


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## Thirsty Boy (16/8/09)

Your curtain sheer will be fine - You just want pure polyester, fine mesh... about the same fineness as a set of nylon stockings. Water should fall through with no resistance, anything courser than pure flour... not.

Your keggle will work, but you might find that when you pull the bag out, it squeezes out and things get a bit messy with wort running down the sides etc. People are using kegs set up like yours, and successfully - BUT - your life will be at its most simple with a straight sided pot, or with a keggle that has had the top completely cut off so that the opening is full width. Try your pot, it will certainly work, but be prepared to deal with a but of mess; and if its too much for you to handle - in the future you might want to consider a kettle modification.

Here is a link to the main BIAB thread, it can be found stuck to the very top of the AG section of this site. If you have a few hours and you really want to know all about BIAB, its potential failures, its good points and everything that anyone has ever tried, and whether it worked... read the whole 72 pages. You will understand BIAB at the end!! Or if not, then there are some great pictures and summaries of people's processes in the last half dozen pages of that thread.

Thirsty


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## katzke (17/8/09)

Great to see another brewer from the USA being brave and trying BIAB.

My keg is cut out to just about 13.5 inches (it fits a canner lid). You may have a bit of trouble with 12 inches but it will not be that you can not get the bag out. First you need to sew the bag correctly. Cut a big circle and sew a tube to it rather then sewing it like a pillowcase. This will make the grain and bag shape like a water drop when you pull it out. Follow the directions and make the bag big enough so the keg can fit inside of it. I can fold the top of the bag over the rim of the keg and pull the drawstring tight. That way I can stir the mash and add ingredients just like you can in any mash tun. Also when you sew up the bag get the seams folded like the one on the outside leg on a pair of blue jeans. It will be much stronger and while one side may be a bit loose it leaves no place for grain and stuff to get trapped so clean up is as easy as a quick rinse.

When you pull the bag lift it slow the first couple of times. If you have a tight fit and you pull too fast you will get wort up over the rim of the keg and it will have no place to go other then all over the burner and floor (ask me how I know). If you find the bag is a tight fit then use something to hang it and give it a spin while holding on to the top of the bag. This will not only help drain the bag but make it smaller so you can get it out.

Make sure the cut edge of the keg does not have any sharp spots. If in doubt, very carefully run your fingers around the inside of the cut. You can use a file and good wet/dry sandpaper to polish up the edges if needed. Make sure you are very careful doing this. Depending on how the top was cut out it can be deadly sharp.

I have read of all kinds of contraptions to hang the bag. The bag does not weight much even when full of wet grain. For a normal 5 gallon batch of beer the bag will weight 25 pounds more or less wet. We have a nylon cord sewn in the top of the bag for a drawstring. When it is pulled tight it is long and strong enough to lift and hang the bag. I have a big old pot that I use as a stand for the burner. I stuff a long 2x2 in the handle and hang the bag from that with a carpenters spring clamp. I can post a picture if you need.

I found that running the grain through the store mill 3 times works well for me. I get a bit of dust but not a problem with BIAB.

Last bit of advice. Beware of advice on BIAB from traditional brewers. They just do not understand it and most likely they will give bad advice. General brewing advice will work for BIAB. Follow the guide on BIAB and enjoy the simplicity of the brewing method.

If you have any other questions just ask.


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## altone (17/8/09)

> Second, I really had no idea what Swiss Voile is so I just bought a sheer white polyester curtain that said voile in the description. I intend to boil the bag by itself to boil off any dye before using it in a brew. Should I have any concern that it is not Swiss Voile?





Thirsty Boy said:


> Your curtain sheer will be fine - You just want pure polyester, fine mesh... about the same fineness as a set of nylon stockings. Water should fall through with no resistance, anything courser than pure flour... not.
> 
> Your keggle will work, but you might find that when you pull the bag out, it squeezes out and things get a bit messy with wort running down the sides etc. People are using kegs set up like yours, ....
> Thirsty




You know, I was going to try a BIAB brew to see if I could reduce time and space requirements over my current setup but couldn't find info on exactly what the "swiss voile" should be.
Now I realise I had the bag material hanging up in the lounge room all along  

With a full grain load and a smaller hole in the top of your keggle, I'd suspect a bit of persuasion might be needed to get the bag out, and yes a bit messy like Thirsty says.

Now, I'm off to Spotlight to get myself material for a bag to try a small BIAB run next weekend.
If it works for me, I can do the whole brew process in the laundry - much more comfortable than fighting over the kitchen or working out in the cold workshop.


Let us know how it turns out BooneDocks


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## Thirsty Boy (17/8/09)

boddingtons best said:


> You know, I was going to try a BIAB brew to see if I could reduce time and space requirements over my current setup but couldn't find info on exactly what the "swiss voile" should be.
> Now I realise I had the bag material hanging up in the lounge room all along
> 
> With a full grain load and a smaller hole in the top of your keggle, I'd suspect a bit of persuasion might be needed to get the bag out, and yes a bit messy like Thirsty says.
> ...



Just remember, when we say curtain sheer, we mean sheer -- think chiffon, see through clothes, stockings etc etc -- not lace. Flyscreen grade mesh ... way to coarse. f you have or have seen a hopbag... about that level of fineness.

I'd hate to see someone sew up a BIAB bag out of the mesh curtain we used to have in our house.

Boddington - for you in Melbourne it should be easy The spotlight codes for the material in question...






TB


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## BooneDocks (17/8/09)

Thanks for the advice!

My bag material is on the order of stockings.

I had it sewed yesterday before I read about the teardrop shape so was sewn as a pillow case. It is plenty large for the whole keg to fit inside with the drawstring pulled.

I checked the lip of my keggle opening and it is extremely smooth except for one little nick, which I will sand out.

I think I have a good plan for the sky hook and I will suspend the bag inside the kettle for draining and will give it a spin/squeeze. ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW LONG TO SUSPEND IT FOR DRAINING? I intend to be firing the brew during this time.

Hoping to be ready to brew next Sunday.


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## Scruffy (18/8/09)

drain until all the sugary goodness is out and in your boil pot - buy yourself a pair of rubber gardening gloves, or a couple of largish pan lids - the stuff in the bag will remain hot for a while... I'm not the worlds best seamstress, i just cut a circle in my voile to cover the pot, sides and a bit left over - bought some grommets from a well known Aussie Hardware warehouse, threaded some poly rope through and used two broom handles and some step ladders/brick walls/dining chairs to suspend the bag... my last Chimay style did bend the poles slightly (big grain bill), but it held... spin the bag, and squeeze until the contents are dryish then chuck it and start boiling... more importantly - have fun! good luck...


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## katzke (18/8/09)

BooneDocks said:


> I had it sewed yesterday before I read about the teardrop shape so was sewn as a pillow case. It is plenty large for the whole keg to fit inside with the drawstring pulled.
> 
> I think I have a good plan for the sky hook and I will suspend the bag inside the kettle for draining and will give it a spin/squeeze. ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW LONG TO SUSPEND IT FOR DRAINING? I intend to be firing the brew during this time.
> 
> Hoping to be ready to brew next Sunday.



As Scruffy said not a big deal to cut a circle and put it in the bottom of your bag. No big loss if you have to take the seam out of the bottom. Leave the seam in the side as you already have a tube. It may work for you as is but I like my bag and have seen pictures of the pillowcase design and I think you may have some continuing trouble. I would leave it for the first brew unless you have time to redo it. One thing you can do to is fill the bag with your grain and give it a dry test.

You can hang the bag for as long as you want, with in reason of course. I used to pull mine with the spin/squeeze method and then let it drain in a second pot (you can use a clean bucket). The last brew I just let it hang while adding heat to start the boil. With a few good spin/squeezes it did not have enough wort left after leaving it in the bucket to make any real difference. So how long to leave it hang? Hang it till most of the wort runs out, then give it a good spin/squeeze, and at that time you may still be getting a drip or 2. I guess what I am trying to say is leave it in till it stops running or the wort starts to boil.

And dont forget to raise the wort to mash out (170F) before pulling the bag. With a hook you can lift the bag just far enough to get it off the bottom of the pot. That is if you have not found a cake rack to put in the bottom of the pot while you mash. Then you should be able to just stir as you add the heat.

Have fun next weekend and dont panic if it does not go textbook. That is all part of the fun of brewing.


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## BooneDocks (18/8/09)

SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed -- and I assume that is an Aussie term too) had to cajole the Mother of SWMBO to sew the bag and it is highly unlikey a re-sew will happen this week.

I know I want to let all sugars drain, just think it may be difficult to see the drainage looking down thru the keggle hole.

But I really like that idea of at least a dry test. Will definitely give that one a go..


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## katzke (18/8/09)

BooneDocks said:


> I know I want to let all sugars drain, just think it may be difficult to see the drainage looking down thru the keggle hole.



Draining is no big deal and is harder to describe then to do it.

I think you will know what is what when you give the bag a few twists. I twist it real tight and have not had any hint of a blow out yet. You do not even need gloves. Just hang on to the top of the bag and use a spoon or whatever to twist the bag. It will take quite a few twists to get it all tight depending on how long the bag is. You are basically wringing it out with the grain still inside.

If in doubt get a big bowl or what ever you have that the bag of wet grain will fit in and let it drip out into that. You can then add what little wort there is back into the boiling kettle.


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## argon (18/8/09)

Scruffy said:


> I'm not the worlds best seamstress, i just cut a circle in my voile to cover the pot, sides and a bit left over - bought some grommets from a well known Aussie Hardware warehouse, threaded some poly rope through...




As a non-seamstress myself and not really keen on getting Mum to sew something up for me (just to skip the whole, "you spend too much time brewing beer" lecture) this is a really good alternative. I've detailed some sailmaking before, so shouldn't be too hard to put something together that would work with a nice celing mounted stainless pulley and wall mounted cleat for tie-off. 10 or 12mm Nylon Rope should be stronger too than just a draw string.

I can see myself putting this together quite easily. No seems and easy to clean.


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## katzke (19/8/09)

argon said:


> As a non-seamstress myself and not really keen on getting Mum to sew something up for me (just to skip the whole, "you spend too much time brewing beer" lecture) this is a really good alternative. I've detailed some sailmaking before, so shouldn't be too hard to put something together that would work with a nice celing mounted stainless pulley and wall mounted cleat for tie-off. 10 or 12mm Nylon Rope should be stronger too than just a draw string.
> 
> I can see myself putting this together quite easily. No seems and easy to clean.



Nice but overkill. Kind of like hopping in the Ferrari to get to the corner store for a 6-pack when you could walk the half block.

Pulleys are a nice convenience but not needed to lift the bag on a normal brew. Double batches maybe. All you Block & Tackle BIABers are forcing me to take a picture my next brew just to show how little it takes to hang a bag of wet grain.

Not saying you are wrong or anything but trying to let new brewers know they do not need to go all out and remodel the house to strengthen the ceiling and add all kinds of hardware to be able to BIAB. Remember the roots of BIAB. It was supposed to be a simple one pot method of brewing with all grain.


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## PistolPatch (19/8/09)

I haven't had time to read this thread thoroughly but I really like the simplicity of the post directly above - great post Tom! A lot of other great posts there I see at a glance.

If I were doing BIAB for the first few times and doing single batches, I would consider heavy duty rubber gloves way before a pulley.

We often complicate things (pulleys) or fail to spend a dollar on something simple (rubber gloves). 

BOONE DOCKS - Great to see you have come across BIAB! One question of yours I saw was, "How long should I suspend the bag for?" Here is my answer for your first few brews...

Buy some heavy duty gloves and lift the bag at the end of your mash, twirl it a few times to squeeze the liquid out. Just twirl it as much as you would when transferring wet clothes from one tub to another without wanting to drip too much. 

Then just dump your bag and forget it.

You will get a bit less than 75% mash efficiency doing this and this is great.

When you have a pulley system and can do a mash-out, you will get a bit over 80% mash efficiency but in reality this only means a litre or two of beer or a few gravity points so don't get hung up on getting everything perfect to start with.

Finding a good recipe is the first thing to concentrate on.

Gotta go but best of luck,
Pat


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## drtomc (19/8/09)

katzke said:


> Not saying you are wrong or anything but trying to let new brewers know they do not need to go all out and remodel the house to strengthen the ceiling and add all kinds of hardware to be able to BIAB. Remember the roots of BIAB. It was supposed to be a simple one pot method of brewing with all grain.



I completely agree with your point, but I also observe that having a pulley with a cleat or tie-off of some sort is quite useful if you want to allow the bag to drain over the pot while the wort comes to the boil. It makes squeezing easier (if you're a squeezle), frees you up to attend to other things.

Not essential, but useful. It depends a bit on why you BIAB - I do because I don't have space for a 3 vessel system, not because I want to be a brewing ascetic and be completely free of brewing bling. 

T.


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## Bribie G (19/8/09)

argon said:


> As a non-seamstress myself and not really keen on getting Mum to sew something up for me (just to skip the whole, "you spend too much time brewing beer" lecture) this is a really good alternative. I've detailed some sailmaking before, so shouldn't be too hard to put something together that would work with a nice celing mounted stainless pulley and *wall mounted cleat for tie-off.* 10 or 12mm Nylon Rope should be stronger too than just a draw string.
> 
> I can see myself putting this together quite easily. No seems and easy to clean.



Brilliant suggestion, I have been having to tie a bowline knot single handed while hanging onto the bag with my other aching hand .... (rabbit comes out of the hole, rabbit goes round the tree, rabbit goes back down the hole, oh f***k )  Off to the hardware store this afternoon. I'm writing an article on BIAB using an electric Urn so I'll pinch your idea shamelessly :icon_cheers:


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## Katherine (19/8/09)

> No seems and easy to clean.



If it is sewn by machine and people are having problem with the seams. Just put the bag in inside out. :icon_cheers:


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## Scruffy (19/8/09)

PistolPatch said:


> We often complicate things...



Me, never... :blink:


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## Renegade (19/8/09)

Scruffy said:


> threaded some poly rope through and used two broom handles and some step ladders/brick walls/dining chairs to suspend the bag... my last Chimay style did bend the poles slightly (big grain bill), but it held... spin the bag, and squeeze until the contents are dryish then chuck it and start boiling... more importantly - have fun! good luck...



Brilliant ! I'm onto this one for sure. (only do a couple of kilo's so no issues of being too heavy). Cheers for sharing your ghetto pully system setup.


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## Renegade (19/8/09)

PistolPatch said:


> Then just dump your bag and forget it.



I just started BIAB (for partials) and while it's easier than the way I was mashing & sparging before (don't ask!), I found it REALLY HARD to just leave the first-dunk grain without running some hot water through it again - and seeing that the resultant liqor was nice and dark. Seems a waste to not extract the extra.


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## argon (19/8/09)

katzke said:


> Nice but overkill. Kind of like hopping in the Ferrari to get to the corner store for a 6-pack when you could walk the half block.




I think it'll be a fairly simple system actually... would cost me about $30 all up. I like to squeeze out the bag (with heavy duty rubber gloves) so really just another set of hands. Maybe a pulley is not essential. A "U" bolt would do the same, or a looped hook screw. The most important thing is the tie-off point really. Another set of hands always comes in handy when dealing with hot liquids and gas burners.


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## katzke (19/8/09)

argon said:


> I think it'll be a fairly simple system actually... would cost me about $30 all up. I like to squeeze out the bag (with heavy duty rubber gloves) so really just another set of hands. Maybe a pulley is not essential. A "U" bolt would do the same, or a looped hook screw. The most important thing is the tie-off point really. Another set of hands always comes in handy when dealing with hot liquids and gas burners.



I will post a picture of how I do it in the morning. Yes it is dark her on the other side of the world. It may not be the best for everyone but shows how easy it is and that pulleys and brackets are not needed. Sure they are nice and I am not saying not to do it but they are not needed.

I still see no reason for rubber gloves. I used the old way as outlined in the original thread of just giving a twist and then let it drain in a bucket for the first several brews. Now that I have a way to hang the bag over the pot I still just give it a twist and have not burned my delicate fingers yet.

You will need to use some imagination, as I will not have a full bag dripping with hot wort in the picture. But it still works just fine.


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## argon (19/8/09)

katzke said:


> I will post a picture of how I do it in the morning. Yes it is dark her on the other side of the world. It may not be the best for everyone but shows how easy it is and that pulleys and brackets are not needed. Sure they are nice and I am not saying not to do it but they are not needed.
> 
> I still see no reason for rubber gloves. I used the old way as outlined in the original thread of just giving a twist and then let it drain in a bucket for the first several brews. Now that I have a way to hang the bag over the pot I still just give it a twist and have not burned my delicate fingers yet.
> 
> You will need to use some imagination, as I will not have a full bag dripping with hot wort in the picture. But it still works just fine.



You do have a point though... I seem more willing to spend the extra on the equipment... but be damned if I don't squeeze every last drop out of that bag!!  

I reckon alot of people on these forums probably feel the same way


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## katzke (19/8/09)

argon said:


> You do have a point though... I seem more willing to spend the extra on the equipment... but be damned if I don't squeeze every last drop out of that bag!!
> 
> I reckon alot of people on these forums probably feel the same way



When I cleaned up after the last brew I did not have enough wort left from the bag to worry about. The key is to let it drip then ring it out and drip then ring it out again. It takes some time but getting a boil takes some time also. I wonder if some of you are just impatient?

Now I am going to have to put some grain in the bag and take a few pictures to show how I lift the bag, hang it, and ring it out.


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## troopa (19/8/09)

All right ive gotta ask the gurus here cause i just cant get my head around using sparging water ... 

Do you let your bag down into a bucket then open it up and pour the water over the grain then re-hoist the bag back up and let it run out ?

Or you pour it through the side of the voile as its hung ?

Or do you some how open the bag mid air using magical sky hooks and pour the water over the grain?

Ps sorry for the hijack but this just got mentioned and its plagued me for 3 or 4 brews now LOL

Tom


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## argon (19/8/09)

katzke said:


> It takes some time but getting a boil takes some time also. I wonder if some of you are just impatient?




yep i'm definately impatient... that's why BIAB fits what i'm looking for... that is, a quick brew with equipment that requires little space. I also prefer to not to have to hold the bag up myself for the time it takes to drip and ring out, call me lazy but i'd like it to be suspended while I let the bag do it's work. Also if anything distracts me from what i'm doing i can leave it there and come back later.


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## Bribie G (19/8/09)

Renegade said:


> I just started BIAB (for partials) and while it's easier than the way I was mashing & sparging before (don't ask!), I found it REALLY HARD to just leave the first-dunk grain without running some hot water through it again - and seeing that the resultant liqor was nice and dark. Seems a waste to not extract the extra.



Sparge in a bucket, see my forthcoming article. Sparge in a bucket + partials = match made in heaven.


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## Thirsty Boy (19/8/09)

Troopa said:


> All right ive gotta ask the gurus here cause i just cant get my head around using sparging water ...
> 
> Do you let your bag down into a bucket then open it up and pour the water over the grain then re-hoist the bag back up and let it run out ?
> 
> ...



All of those will work to an extent - the better mixing and contact with the grain the water gets... the more effective the sparge. In BIAB, you are using much much much less sparge water (if you sparge at all) than you would in a "normal" brewing scenario, so you sparging inefficiently no matter what ... 

I personally like the "dunk" sparge -- where the bag is transferred to another pot that has an amount of water in it... bag is agitated, stirred, squished around etc etc for a while, then lifted and re-drained/squeezed.

But pouring some water over the bag - re-opening and pouring it in - all that will be fine. You just need to make sure the water "gets in" so to speak doesn't just run down the outside.

Best option of all in my opinion, is to not sparge at all. Pay the extra 50c for grain and save yourself the trouble -- oh if you are doing it for volume reasons, OK. But otherwise ....... who could be arsed in order to save a handfull of grain?


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## Bribie G (19/8/09)

Yes for the price I'm more than happy to pay for a 5 kg grain bill that a 3 vessel system could probably crank out on 4.6kg but when I'm trying to follow a recipe (good example being the Australian Sparkling from a recent BYO mag) I do a separate bucket sparge to try to stick to the recipe as far as possible, seeing as most recipes are formulated with multi sparging in mind.

Also I'm a tight ALDI shopping bastard (says it all) :lol:


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## BooneDocks (20/8/09)

Making progress -- I bought my grains yesterday. I will make an American Pale Ale. I have a friend who has some hops growing on a fence in her back yard and as best we can tell, they are Cascades and are just about ready for picking (it is hop harvest time in parts of the States) and I plan to use them undried. We shall call this brew "Feline Fantasy" as we both have house cats. Here are the particulars:

Grain Bill (the homebrew store said their mill was set at .036/.037 which seemed good and fine and I had them triple crush it). They put the grains in a "pillow case" shaped plastic bag so I now know why I wish I had a tear drop shaped bag, but I feel confident it isn't going to be to difficult to pull it up through the 12" hole of the keggle.
8 lbs. 2-Row Pale Malt
2 lbs. Vienna Malt
0.5 lb. Crystal 10L Malt

Mash
Single Infusion mash for 70 minutes at 152 degrees.
Mash Out


Boil & Hops (these are all wet hop weights at the assumed rate of 4 oz wet to 1 oz dry)
4.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
2.0 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
1.0 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
1.0 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

Chill to 70 to 75 degrees

Pitch with Nottingham Dry Yeast. No starter or hydration. 

I still am working out just how much water to put in the kettle, have to fill the propane tank I bought at a garage sale this weekend and do a little modifying/testing of the brew equipment I bought from a guy giving up the hobby. (This will be my first no kitchen stove top brew).


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## katzke (20/8/09)

BooneDocks said:


> Making progress -- I bought my grains yesterday. I will make an American Pale Ale. I have a friend who has some hops growing on a fence in her back yard and as best we can tell, they are Cascades and are just about ready for picking (it is hop harvest time in parts of the States) and I plan to use them undried. We shall call this brew "Feline Fantasy" as we both have house cats. Here are the particulars:
> 
> Grain Bill (the homebrew store said their mill was set at .036/.037 which seemed good and fine and I had them triple crush it). They put the grains in a "pillow case" shaped plastic bag so I now know why I wish I had a tear drop shaped bag, but I feel confident it isn't going to be to difficult to pull it up through the 12" hole of the keggle.
> 8 lbs. 2-Row Pale Malt
> ...



Using backyard hops is tricky. You have no idea how bitter they are or what they will add for flavor. Can not help with the amount to use but some googling may give you an answer.

I know someplace out there is a home test for bitterness. It involves making a hop tea and sugar to balance the bitterness.

You will need to work up your own water but I think you should be around 8.5 gallons. It will depend on your boil off. This will let you know if you are close anyway.


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## katzke (20/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Yes for the price I'm more than happy to pay for a 5 kg grain bill that a 3 vessel system could probably crank out on 4.6kg but when I'm trying to follow a recipe (good example being the Australian Sparkling from a recent BYO mag) I do a separate bucket sparge to try to stick to the recipe as far as possible, seeing as most recipes are formulated with multi sparging in mind.
> 
> Also I'm a tight ALDI shopping bastard (says it all) :lol:



My efficiencies are getting high enough that the only adjustments I have had to make are to recipes where they do not allow for enough losses. I still do not see how some say they can make 5 gallons of beer with only 6 gallons of collected wort.


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## katzke (20/8/09)

Have a snap ready but I can not load an image because photobucket has gone to hi-tech for my computer and I can not get it to work. No other way to load an image that I know.


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