# 2400w Elements



## Fat Bastard (31/8/11)

G'day.

I'm building an electric kettle out of a Handy Imports 36 litre stockpot and I've been considering a 1 1/4" screw in 2400 watt element from http://www.thermalelectric.com.au/

I talked to a very pleasant young lady there who told me that yes, they've done similar elements for homebrewers, we can do it in stainless, and it'll incorporate the temperature probe as standard. (if you can be bothered, you can see something similar in section 9 of their .pdf cattledog)

After doing some calcs, she reckoned it would bring 30 litres to the boil in 2 hours and to 70 in 1. This seems a bit long to me, http://www.phpdoc.info/brew/boilcalc.html reckons about 49 minutes to 70 and 75 to a boil. Then came the killer, $158!!!

Over 3 times the price of the Craftbrewer ones! I can imagine the quality would be better, and it's got the temp probe housing and all, but 3 times the price?

Does anyone use one of the TEE elements?

What are they like, and how long does it take to get your kettle to boil? I can't go any bigger, I'm limited to 10A outlets in my rented flat, and would prefer to have just one element if i can get away with it ('specially at $158!).

Cheers!


----------



## QldKev (31/8/11)

Using the calc on my website here I get the same times as that calc

I've got a couple of Craftbrewer ones to play with for my proposed HLT, but this is the exact reason I'm currently running LPG for any serious heat output. I can get 110L from tap to 70c in around 20mins using 2 x NASA burners.

From what I've read on here 1 element will be the minimum for a single batch, allowing decent insulation. A few people are running 3600w to get a decent rolling boil and help reduce the lag time. A few others also use 2 x 2400w elements to reduce the lag time, then use just 1 to hold the boil.



QldKev


----------



## kfahy (31/8/11)

I went to Big W and got a $20 kettle and ripped the element out of that. 2400 watt. I run it in my HLT and it gets to strike temp in about the times you are indicating below. 

I left the element on once while sparging, the water level got below the element and the element burnt out. I shrugged my shoulders and spent another $20.


----------



## Synthetase (31/8/11)

bluetoff said:


> I went to Big W and got a $20 kettle and ripped the element out of that. 2400 watt. I run it in my HLT and it gets to strike temp in about the times you are indicating below.
> 
> I left the element on once while sparging, the water level got below the element and the element burnt out. I shrugged my shoulders and spent another $20.



Coles/Kmart have kettles on sale for $9 at the moment. Years worth of brewing elements for cheap!


----------



## Mitcho89 (31/8/11)

I'm really looking to get myself an portable immersion element for a 70L pot, I've thought about getting a kettle and ripping the element but I really don't want to shock the shiz out of myself. How did you do it mate???


----------



## megs80 (31/8/11)

I added a 2.2kw element to my 50ltr HLT. it took too over and hour to get my water back up to sparging temp, so i added another 2.2kw element and my HLT works like a dream. For 30 ltrs I reckon at least going 3.6kw. If you temp control best to spec over what you think you will need.


----------



## Mitcho89 (31/8/11)

Where did you get yours from megs?


----------



## Fat Bastard (31/8/11)

I like the idea of $9 K-mart elements! If only I wasn't such an engineer and need to have everything looking all schmick & trick!

Part of the beauty of having a stock pot is that I can throw it on the stove to put more heat into it to get things moving. Unfortunately I'm a strictly kitchen brewer at the moment so gas is right out, as is going any higher than a 10A outlet can safely handle. The plan is to fit it up with a temperature controller/readout that I'm pirating from the emergency spares/garbage bin at work. I guess a second element is not entirely out of the question, but not for another $158! Another factor to consider is the loss of volume by the extra element. A 36 litre pot is right on the limit volume wise for 20-23 litre BIAB brews.

If I'm using it indoors, will I need extra insulation?


----------



## megs80 (1/9/11)

Mitcho89 said:


> Where did you get yours from megs?



I bought a stainless heat stick from jb brew supplies, I think craft brewer sell them too and a copper circular element from grain and grape. It's a miss match but I used what I had laying around. Note that if I use them on a 4 board power supply ill trip its safety switch


----------



## bignath (1/9/11)

Another vote for the kmart elements. Grabbed three kettles a year ago and installed two in my 50l keg HLT. works awesome. I hit strike temp in around 25/30mins. I use this time to weigh and crush grain. Only problem is depending on you power handling capabiities you may trip fuses. I can't have the house fan in the heater going whilst I'm heating water as it trips, but otherwise it rocks. My kettle is gas fired so I can't comment on times to get to boiling but it wouldn't be long that's for sure.


----------



## matho (1/9/11)

I bought an element off TEE, it was a custom made 'bend your own' element made out of 316 SS and was a low watt density of 30w per square inch, it came to $170 delivered to my door. I was happy to pay that much because it was custom made to what i wanted, and on receiving it, the quality of workmanship was exellent.

Those calculators that you pointed too doesn't look like they take into account heat loss, if you look at chapter 18.4 of their catalogue there is a chart for losses with an open water tank, at 90 deg c the loss is 12KW per square meter so for a 35 cm diameter pot the loss will be 

loss = Pi x r^2 x 12
= Pi x 0.175^2 x 12
= 1.15 KW
so if you plug that into that calculator the for a temp rise from 90 to 100 it takes about 18min 

if you want to speed up the time to boil the best way is to put the lid on to reduce the heat loss 

cheers matho


----------



## Mitcho89 (1/9/11)

Big Nath said:


> Another vote for the kmart elements. Grabbed three kettles a year ago and installed two in my 50l keg HLT. works awesome. I hit strike temp in around 25/30mins. I use this time to weigh and crush grain. Only problem is depending on you power handling capabiities you may trip fuses. I can't have the house fan in the heater going whilst I'm heating water as it trips, but otherwise it rocks. My kettle is gas fired so I can't comment on times to get to boiling but it wouldn't be long that's for sure.



How did you go about taking them out? I'm worried about shocking the sh!t out of myself!


----------



## cdbrown (1/9/11)

The kettle elements come out very easily. You just need to make sure that the back of it is put into an enclosure which is water tight and earthed.


----------



## Mitcho89 (1/9/11)

cdbrown said:


> The kettle elements come out very easily. You just need to make sure that the back of it is put into an enclosure which is water tight and earthed.




And that's what worries me!


----------



## Fat Bastard (1/9/11)

matho said:


> I bought an element off TEE, it was a custom made 'bend your own' element made out of 316 SS and was a low watt density of 30w per square inch, it came to $170 delivered to my door. I was happy to pay that much because it was custom made to what i wanted, and on receiving it, the quality of workmanship was exellent.
> 
> Those calculators that you pointed too doesn't look like they take into account heat loss, if you look at chapter 18.4 of their catalogue there is a chart for losses with an open water tank, at 90 deg c the loss is 12KW per square meter so for a 35 cm diameter pot the loss will be
> 
> ...



Thanks Matho. I found those charts today. Any chance of a pic or two of your element? Did you get the socket made in S/S too? I asked for that, but on the quote it's in brass, and didn't get a chance to call them back, due to having to actually do some work!


----------



## ledgenko (1/9/11)

Megs, 

My understanding is that if you put anything on a 4 point power board (which is inturn attached to a powerpoint) you will kick the fuse everytime as the power is being dragged along a small wire... to get around this (and this is only if you need to have 4 points) install a 4 point on the wall.. 

After a quick audit of my power in the house I am in I have something like 27 power points running on one circuit (OMG) ... so I guess I will be running a few extra circuits to rectify this in the very near future ... (for the sparkies out there .... this includes the kitchen, laundry, 2 bed rooms and the lounge room) ... massive draw and I could imagine a few whinces out there .... Note ... I am not responsible for this ... this is a house my parents have been living in for the past 30 years and they dont understand electricity.. they just pay the bill and complain alot!!


----------



## matho (1/9/11)

i only got the brass fittings, as i said it was a custom made element and came straight and i bent it myself




im very happy with it but if you can get away with a standard element then your better off getting that because it will be cheaper

cheers matho


----------



## jasonharley (1/9/11)

cdbrown said:


> The kettle elements come out very easily. You just need to make sure that the back of it is put into an enclosure which is water tight and earthed.




Have you got a picture of the backing and how you sealed it ...... i too am a dumb bastard and only just worked out that ac / dc is more than a rock band !

5 eyes


----------



## pips78 (1/9/11)

Hi there
Im building a BIAB setup and I was wondering what element/s would be best for it? I am an electrician so power is no problem and its about a 50l pot. How does the kettle element go through the side? Is any welding needed (i would prefer not but its not to much of a mission to get it done). Is a couple of elements like the ones selling at craftbrewer be the go? Any idea would be greatly appreciated


----------



## husky (1/9/11)

matho said:


> i only got the brass fittings, as i said it was a custom made element and came straight and i bent it myself
> 
> View attachment 48019
> 
> ...




What length and diameter is that element? I have had a price on one similar in 6W/sqm low density. It was however a bit more expensive than yours. Got any close ups of the fittings? Might have to supply them with stainless ones to use if they only do brass.


----------



## Fat Bastard (1/9/11)

matho said:


> i only got the brass fittings, as i said it was a custom made element and came straight and i bent it myself
> 
> View attachment 48019
> 
> ...



Cheers mate. The price they quoted me works out at about what you paid. It's more than I wanted to pay, but I guess you do get what you pay for!




Pips said:


> Hi there
> Im building a BIAB setup and I was wondering what element/s would be best for it? I am an electrician so power is no problem and its about a 50l pot. How does the kettle element go through the side? Is any welding needed (i would prefer not but its not to much of a mission to get it done). Is a couple of elements like the ones selling at craftbrewer be the go? Any idea would be greatly appreciated



It's the same sort of concept as fitting a weldless outlet, cut a hole in the pot, the element goes through and you seal it with a big nut and thick silicone gasket.
There is some good pics and information here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/


----------



## matho (1/9/11)

they have SS fittings i just didnt ask for them








the element is 8mm in diameter and the effective heating length is about 1570mm 

cheers matho


----------



## Fat Bastard (18/9/11)

Finally got one from Istra Elements in Caringbah. About half the price of the equivalent Grimwood or TEE units, 316 stainless plug, and slightly longer for a lower surface density. Pretty happy with it. Just need to get the temp controller wired up and in a box and I'll be set.


----------



## Zorco (10/7/16)

Just to share some of my thinking on electric heating elements. I just ordered this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aiicioo240v-6000w-screw-in-electric-water-heater-element-1-1-4-BSP-Brass-Thread-/321888445458?hash=item4af20be412:g:eagAAOSw5ZBWF25R


There is this three sub-element option. Each at 2000W. Can easily be connected in any combination or with an SSR for each sub-element. For mid to large rigs, people can buy this element knowing they only have their standard 10A and when they upgrade they can power up all three sub-element. 

Alternatively, you can consider the other two as spares for significant heater longevity for the no fail brew day on account of dry burn up or random fail.


I've bought a tiny 750W version of this brand for my Mash Tun integrated recirc unit (yet to post my build) and the quality is very good.


Enjoy.


----------

