# Wheatbix In A Wit



## Thirsty Boy (29/11/08)

OK, going to brew a Witbier on Sunday - I have decided to use a kg or so of coles white packet homebrand wheat biscuits as the wheat component.

Interestingly, the more expensive wheat biscuits - the "better" homebrand ones and wheatbix or vitabrits - all had "other things in them. Riboflavin, malt extract, sugar, bits and bobs. BUT the cheap arse, your kids don't like these ones version. 99% whole wheat and some salt are the only things that appear on the ingredients list.

Some homebrand oats and I get 50% of my grist and a significant number of breakfasts for about $4... bargain.

Maybe a Nutrigrain stout next time...... Iron man booze

TB


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## Fatgodzilla (29/11/08)

Thirsty Boy said:


> OK, going to brew a Witbier on Sunday - I have decided to use a kg or so of coles white packet homebrand wheat biscuits as the wheat component.
> 
> Interestingly, the more expensive wheat biscuits - the "better" homebrand ones and wheatbix or vitabrits - all had "other things in them. Riboflavin, malt extract, sugar, bits and bobs. BUT the cheap arse, your kids don't like these ones version. 99% whole wheat and some salt are the only things that appear on the ingredients list.
> 
> ...




Be keen to see the results. Have heard of people using wheat bix etc but couldn't be bothererd trying it. Post your efficiency results when done and how well the grist sparged.

Read your comment on the 1,000kg of hops you did first night back at work (how many holidays do you take !!)- what does a room full of hops smell like ? Do you need breathing aparatus ?


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## Bribie G (29/11/08)

Hmm lets see now: adjuncts.... flaked maize, flaked rice, flaked wheat (wow  in a brick, how convenient is that ) 
I'd go for it. Nice toasty flavour too.

edit: was at the BABBs meeting this week and one guy is experimenting with a kilo of mashed spuds, interesting to find out how it went


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## Muggus (29/11/08)

I've comemplated this many a time whilst tucking into my daily dose of Weet Bix. 
Gets me wondering if I could make a beer out of stuff I find in the cereal aisile at work...hmmm.


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## newguy (29/11/08)

My club runs a friendly competition just for club members called BURRP - brewing under really ridiculous parameters. One year the ridiculous stipulation was that you had to use a box of breakfast cereal as part of your grist. The cocoa puffs porter was memorable, as was the reese's pieces pale ale (chocolate peanut butter cereal).

Welcome to the breakfast cereal club.


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## reviled (29/11/08)

I asked for flaked wheat once at a HBS, and they just told me to use wheatbix :lol: Tho idea behind mashing cereals is so awesome!


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## reviled (29/11/08)

newguy said:


> My club runs a friendly competition just for club members called BURRP - brewing under really ridiculous parameters. One year the ridiculous stipulation was that you had to use a box of breakfast cereal as part of your grist. The cocoa puffs porter was memorable, as was the reese's pieces pale ale (chocolate peanut butter cereal).
> 
> Welcome to the breakfast cereal club.



Reeses Pieces :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: 

If I ever know of anyone going to the US I allways request a huge ass bag of Reeses Pieces, so damn tasty! 

Now i want some <_<


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## debineko (29/11/08)

Uncle Toby's Shredded Wheat for 100% whole wheat, no salt no nothing.


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## KingPython (29/11/08)

I've always gone past the cereal isle and wondered about this, now I can try it.


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## Bribie G (29/11/08)

Rice bubbles (AKA rice krispies oveseas) in a Coors clone, Special K in a diet ale, hang on I don't think that would work somehow...


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## bindi (29/11/08)

I used a large box of corn flakes in lager not long ago, the mash almost set like concrete and it was a very slow mash out. :huh: 

Here it is, tasted very nice.

4.60 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 79.31 % 
1.20 kg Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 20.69 % 
22.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 20.3 IBU 
35.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (20 min) Hops 8.4 IBU 
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager


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## goatherder (29/11/08)

Just watch the salt levels in the cereal TB. I made a CAP a while back using home brand cornflakes. The salt flavour was obvious in the beer, just enough that you knew it was there. It kind of ruined the beer.


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## Thirsty Boy (30/11/08)

I thought about that salt level and decided against a full 2 kg of the wheatbix - that would be = to something like 20g of salt in the brew - too much.

So its 1kg of wheatbix, 1.1 kg of wheat malt, 0.5 kg of oats, pilsner and a little munich. Thats only 10g of salt and I know that that much is going to be OK.

PLUS two 2L jugs full of rice hulls and probably a few more when I mash in. I always use rice hulls and this rew is gonna be sticky.

What do you guys reckon about a beta glucan rest to free it up a little. Already going for a 15 min 50C protein rest. Screw it, I should just pinch some bio glucanase enzymes from work and put in a few drops... that'd make it run.

Fatgodzilla - A room full of hops smells great! when its mostly POR its all resinous and piney, when its Hersbrucker its all juicy citrus and spice. The saaz is of course spicy. No breathing gear needed, although for some reason hersbrucker makes me sneeze and the other hops dont.

Thirsty


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## muckanic (1/12/08)

Thirsty Boy said:


> What do you guys reckon about a beta glucan rest to free it up a little. Already going for a 15 min 50C protein rest. Screw it, I should just pinch some bio glucanase enzymes from work and put in a few drops... that'd make it run.



As far as I am aware, distiller's "glucanase" (gluco amylase) is actually a beta amylase substitute. AFAIAA #2, wheat doesn't contain significant glucans; that's more a raw barley or oats feature. Personally, I would shoot for at least 30 mins at 55C at the low end of the pH range. OTOH, we're talking processed wheat here. The whole stuff has the advantage of possessing a bit of germ and hence some more flavour.



BribieG said:


> was at the BABBs meeting this week and one guy is experimenting with a kilo of mashed spuds, interesting to find out how it went



The last time I tried it, I got a heap of H2S and DMS from fermenting on the pulp. It sorted itself eventually, but I probably should have helped scrub it out by using an open ferment.


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## gregb (1/12/08)

newguy said:


> The cocoa puffs porter was memorable, as was the reese's pieces pale ale (chocolate peanut butter cereal).




Memorable in a good way?


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## newguy (1/12/08)

Yes, memorable in a good way.


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## Swinging Beef (1/12/08)

I used 250g of wheat bix in an extrsct heff and i was really happy with the result.


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## Thirsty Boy (1/12/08)

muckanic said:


> As far as I am aware, distiller's "glucanase" (gluco amylase) is actually a beta amylase substitute. AFAIAA #2, wheat doesn't contain significant glucans; that's more a raw barley or oats feature. Personally, I would shoot for at least 30 mins at 55C at the low end of the pH range. OTOH, we're talking processed wheat here. The whole stuff has the advantage of possessing a bit of germ and hence some more flavour.
> 
> 
> 
> The last time I tried it, I got a heap of H2S and DMS from fermenting on the pulp. It sorted itself eventually, but I probably should have helped scrub it out by using an open ferment.




The bioglucanase I am referring to is a specific agent for the purpose of breaking down beta glucans in order to aid runoff in the lautering process. Gluco amalayse is a different product that we also use.

Not sure about the Beta Glucan content of wheat, but I do know for certain that a slurry of wheat flour changes character remarkably during a traditional glucan rest... enough to make a mash with plain four workable whereas when you dont do the glucan rest......

I also specifically chose a cereal that stated "whole" wheat in the ingredients - its processed alright and who knows how honest they are, but taking it on faith this stuff is effectively just heated up and rolled flat.

I might well have benefited from either the enzymes or a least a longer (as you suggested) protein rest .. someone earlier mentioned concrete. Fair description. It would have been alright for an infusion mash, but trying to re-circulate it was a bit of nightmare.

Still, hit my volume and OG on the head at 75% mash efficiency, which is not bad for a no-sparge brewer.

Assuming the flavour is good, I will use the wheatbix again, I'll just leave the RIMS asleep and do an infusion mash though. Handy ingredient and cheap too.

Tasting will tell the story.

TB


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## muckanic (2/12/08)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Not sure about the Beta Glucan content of wheat, but I do know for certain that a slurry of wheat flour changes character remarkably during a traditional glucan rest... enough to make a mash with plain four workable whereas when you dont do the glucan rest......



Yeah, there's a lot of uncertainties there, but if it works, then obviously go for it. I have also mashed quite a bit of flour just to prove to myself that there is nothing to be scared of, and my general conclusion was that gluten (from hard wheat) is way more scary when it comes to stuck sparges. I have seen one Belgian brewery that used 50% wheaten cornflour in their witbier, but that method is a bit of a cheat as it is essentially a micronised pure starch/low protein product. 

There is a lot that could be going on at these alleged glucan rest temperatures. It is also potentially an acid (phytase) rest, a ferulic acid rest, it is at the bottom range of being a nutrient rest (as in breakdown of LMW protein), and most basically is a grist hydration step. I have seen mash swelling but not so much mash thinning in that temperature range; something which tends to occur in the 50C+ range, along with the beginnings of sweetness development. It is unlikely that flour contains too much in the way of enzymes, although it is instructive that raw barley is supposed to contain beta amylase. Then there are the issues of the modification and the kilning of the malt, and what that might be bringing to the table. I must admit that I am uncertain how common glucanase actually is.


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## Thirsty Boy (2/12/08)

muckanic said:


> Yeah, there's a lot of uncertainties there, but if it works, then obviously go for it. I have also mashed quite a bit of flour just to prove to myself that there is nothing to be scared of, and my general conclusion was that gluten (from hard wheat) is way more scary when it comes to stuck sparges. I have seen one Belgian brewery that used 50% wheaten cornflour in their witbier, but that method is a bit of a cheat as it is essentially a micronised pure starch/low protein product.
> 
> There is a lot that could be going on at these alleged glucan rest temperatures. It is also potentially an acid (phytase) rest, a ferulic acid rest, it is at the bottom range of being a nutrient rest (as in breakdown of LMW protein), and most basically is a grist hydration step. I have seen mash swelling but not so much mash thinning in that temperature range; something which tends to occur in the 50C+ range, along with the beginnings of sweetness development. It is unlikely that flour contains too much in the way of enzymes, although it is instructive that raw barley is supposed to contain beta amylase. Then there are the issues of the modification and the kilning of the malt, and what that might be bringing to the table. I must admit that I am uncertain how common glucanase actually is.




nice info, thanks.

BTW I was unclear about doing a glucan rest with the plain flour... I meant of course that it was a slurry of plain flour AND about 25% crushed barley malt to provide enzymes. So there was no doubt a bunch of different stuff going on at around 40-45C - a temp that is in the range for pretty much all the things you mentioned above.

Anyway, if I try the wheatbix experiment again, I will give a glucan/acid/ferulic rest a go and see if that ungums things a little - although with a generous whack of rice hulls, it actually wouldn't have been too traumatic as an infusion mash. Its just that I run a recirculating system and my false bottom is of the hose braid variety... marginal for the recirculating system at the best of times.

I may run a few little mash experiments just to see what happens. One wheatbick and a tablespoon of malt... play around with different rests. Keep me amused when I have too much time on my hands.

Cheers

TB


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