# Knurling on a Mashmaster Mini Mill



## dicko (21/5/15)

Have they changed the knurling on the rollers on the above mill.

I just recently bought one and it does not perform like others I have seen...it wont draw the grain through.
It does mill the grain but takes an eternity to do so.

The gap is 1.2 and the speed is 180 rpm.

A vid will tell a thousand words...I removed the hopper to see what was happening

View attachment Grain Mill Rollers.MOV


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## Rocker1986 (21/5/15)

I had the same thing happen with mine which I bought nearly 3 years ago. Funny thing though - it only happened with Simpsons Maris Otter malt. Took about an hour using the hand crank to mill a batch worth of it. :blink: Every other malt I've used has been perfectly fine going through it. Most recently Wey Bo Pils of the floor malted variety. Takes about 15-20 minutes all up for the whole batch worth of grains when they go through properly.

Is it certain malts not being drawn through properly or just any and all of them?


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## Liam_snorkel (21/5/15)

Had mine for a few months, rips through the grain like crazy.
they had problems a little while ago and were replacing peoples roller I think. Might be worth shooting them an email
some discussion in this thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/page-3


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## dicko (21/5/15)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Had mine for a few months, rips through the grain like crazy.
> they had problems a little while ago and were replacing peoples roller I think. Might be worth shooting them an email
> some discussion in this thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/page-3


Hi Liam_s

thanks for the link mate.... I had not seen that thread before. 

I got mine from CB and I know that they are great with any problem that I have had in the past.

I'll give em a call to see what can be done.


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## RobW (21/5/15)

Hi Dicko

Do you moisten the grain before crushing to give the rollers better purchase?

Cheers

Rob


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## dicko (21/5/15)

RobW said:


> Hi Dicko
> 
> Do you moisten the grain before crushing to give the rollers better purchase?
> 
> ...


G'day Rob,

Yeah mate i did that on the last lot I milled and it went through a bit better and that vid I took was dry so to get that last bit of grain to go through I got a "squirty bottle" and gave the grains a puff of water and through they went.

I have spoken and emailed the retailer and i am waiting for the manufacturer to get back to me.

Cheers


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## huez (21/5/15)

Craft Brewer sent me a new mill when i had this issue. Frank from mash master also offered to send me new rollers. Both were great to deal with.

Had the new one a few months now and last weekend it seemed like it was starting to do it again, see how it goes next brew day.



dicko said:


> Hi Liam_s
> 
> thanks for the link mate.... I had not seen that thread before.
> 
> ...


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## dicko (21/5/15)

huez said:


> Craft Brewer sent me a new mill when i had this issue. Frank from mash master also offered to send me new rollers. Both were great to deal with.
> 
> Had the new one a few months now and last weekend it seemed like it was starting to do it again, see how it goes next brew day.


Gee mate....that doesn't sound too good. :unsure:


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## huez (21/5/15)

I'll be extremely unlucky if i got 2 from a bad batch! When they work properly they are brilliant though!


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## dicko (21/5/15)

huez said:


> I'll be extremely unlucky if i got 2 from a bad batch! When they work properly they are brilliant though!


Yes huez, that is why i bought one, because i have seen them working over the last few years and I have always been impressed with the crush and the speed.
I think that there are a couple of HB shops around that use them as well.

I am sure that it will all sort out in due course.


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## krausenhaus (21/5/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> I had the same thing happen with mine which I bought nearly 3 years ago. Funny thing though - it only happened with Simpsons Maris Otter malt. Took about an hour using the hand crank to mill a batch worth of it. :blink: Every other malt I've used has been perfectly fine going through it. Most recently Wey Bo Pils of the floor malted variety. Takes about 15-20 minutes all up for the whole batch worth of grains when they go through properly.
> 
> Is it certain malts not being drawn through properly or just any and all of them?


Good to hear this, I did a batch with TF MO base with mine recently and it took about four times longer than normal. Didn't know why the hell it was happening and was googling about MO being tougher to mill but couldn't find anything.

I still don't feel like mine is performing as it should though, even with other base malts. It absolutely ripped through my first batch but since then it seems slower and not as fast as videos I've seen of others.


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## wide eyed and legless (21/5/15)

I doubt it's the knurling dicko, most knurling tools offer the same diamond cut, I am sure an old fitter like you would know the only purpose of the knurled face of the rollers is to get a bite on the grain,I would imagine that speed of the rollers plays a major part on the efficiency of the grind, if I try to grind mine on a fast speed it can't get a bite on the grain, go on a slower speed the grain isn't getting thrown back by the rollers.


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## GABBA110360 (21/5/15)

maybe the knurling tool used in production of the rollers is not producing a nice sharp clean knurl?
just a thought


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## BJB (21/5/15)

GABBA110360 said:


> maybe the knurling tool used in production of the rolas Ilers is not producing a nice sharp clean knurl?
> just a thought


Too true, they do wear out and not give a good sharp knurl over time. I'll be surprised that Craft Brewer would still be selling these with the suspect rollers after the feedback here. Interested in the outcome as I maybe in the market for a new mill soon.


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## Rocker1986 (21/5/15)

krausenhaus said:


> Good to hear this, I did a batch with TF MO base with mine recently and it took about four times longer than normal. Didn't know why the hell it was happening and was googling about MO being tougher to mill but couldn't find anything.
> 
> I still don't feel like mine is performing as it should though, even with other base malts. It absolutely ripped through my first batch but since then it seems slower and not as fast as videos I've seen of others.


I normally use the TF Floor malted MO for my recipes with the exception of lagers. It may be a tad slower, but otherwise I haven't had any issues with it struggling to get drawn in to the rollers, certainly not to the degree of it taking up to 4 times longer to mill the grains like I experienced with the Simpsons one. I don't wet my grains either, thought about it after reading about it on here a few times but still haven't been bothered to do it. :lol:


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## tavas (21/5/15)

Is the knurling full of flour?


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## wide eyed and legless (21/5/15)

Mashmaster Mini Gap Problem

An old thread same subject from AHB, the object of the knurled rollers is to grip the grain, it will take a long time for the HSS cutters to wear down and I doubt whether the manufacturer would let his knurling tools wear down so much that they were not giving a good cut, they are cheap to replace and it is not as if they are mass producing the rollers for the mills.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/5/15)

how is this thread still going?

post 1) hi, my mill rollers are fkd, see vid.

post 3) yeah, that manufacturer had a batch of faulty rollers and has been replacing them, give them a buzz. Here's a link to the relevant thread.

post 4) will do, cheers.

</thread>


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## wide eyed and legless (21/5/15)

Not much else happening Liam, good job that Joe did well with the budget, that could have taken 5 or 6 pages if he hadn't.


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## Liam_snorkel (21/5/15)

haha!


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## dicko (21/5/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I doubt it's the knurling dicko, most knurling tools offer the same diamond cut, I am sure an old fitter like you would know the only purpose of the knurled face of the rollers is to get a bite on the grain,I would imagine that speed of the rollers plays a major part on the efficiency of the grind, if I try to grind mine on a fast speed it can't get a bite on the grain, go on a slower speed the grain isn't getting thrown back by the rollers.


Yep WEAL, when at trade school I got the highest mark in the class for knurling, be it for a tap wrench handle that we had to make, but back on topic.
I spoke to Anthony at CB and apparently there was an issue with the knurling tool being used in manufacture where over time they wear out and considering that these things probably made in China, quality control would be pretty much non existent.
The knurling wheels lose their edge over time but for a bowl of rice per week, the bloke on the lathe doesn't give a Fat Yaks Toss Bag. 




Liam_snorkel said:


> how is this thread still going?post 1) hi, my mill rollers are fkd, see vid.post 3) yeah, that manufacturer had a batch of faulty rollers and has been replacing them, give them a buzz. Here's a link to the relevant thread.post 4) will do, cheers.</thread>


It is amazing how some of us continue on over a glass or two at the end of each day. 

I'll be back....


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## dicko (1/6/15)

I'm back......

So I spoke to Anthony at CB and he put me onto Francis at Mashmaster.

Francis is aware that there is a problem at times with the rollers and that he is onto it...apparently it does not affect all mills but he is currently working on an overall solution which sounds great.

Anyway, so to keep Liam happy and keep this topic as short as I can, :lol: Francis sent me two new rollers which I just fitted and have tested it with 5 kg of grain (Weyermann plus some Crystal) and it ripped through it like I would have expected it to.
I will be milling some grains for another brewer on Saturday so it will get a second test then.

Great service and back up from both CB and Mashmaster and Francis sent me a little gift for my troubles as well.


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## krausenhaus (25/6/15)

Looks like I've got a dud pair of rollers too as it now takes me 20 min to do a 5kg batch of grain. I've only done six batches on it; first one it tore through but it's never been the same since then.

I got in touch with Frank but it looks like he's not giving replacement rollers out anymore until the new design is finalised, which will be a few months.


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## Rocker1986 (26/6/15)

Are you using a drill or some sort of power on it or just the hand crank?

I find 20 minutes is a pretty normal timeframe for milling a 5kg grain bill just using the hand crank, it's always taken me about that long ever since my first batch, but if you have a drill or such like connected to it then yeah I'd expect it should be done in a few minutes.


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## krausenhaus (26/6/15)

Yeah it's on a drill. First batch only took a few minutes so something is definitely up.


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## Rocker1986 (27/6/15)

Yeah I would agree then, with a drill it shouldn't be taking anywhere near 20 minutes to mill 5kg of grain.

I did have one sack of Simpsons MO that just flat out refused to go through my mill, all other grains have been perfectly fine. However if you're experiencing this issue with all grains then obviously it's the mill itself that's the problem.


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## Feldon (27/6/15)

Is it possible to see any difference between the good and bad knurled rollers with the naked eye?

Just thought that if people know how to spot the dodgy mills before buying it might save a bit of grief.


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## Dan2 (28/6/15)

I've been having the same issue - 6.2kg in 16.5 minutes a few days ago.
The points on the knurling are quite shiny and smoother than they should be, so I figure they're heading down the same path as others here.

I run mine with the Motion Dynamics motor with variable speed circuit.
Dialed it back to half pace (about 100rpm) yesterday and crushed 5kg in 5 minutes.

Hopefully others will find this helpful enough to get us through til the new rollers are available :icon_cheers:


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## nala (1/9/15)

I must have the same problem...milled 5.950 kilos of grain this morning it took 1 hour 20 minutes.
The mill is about 18 months old and I think that the knurling is worn out.
Mill is powered my Ozito high torque drill on it's slowest speed.
I mean to try double pass milling, can't be any worse.
I appreciate that grain mills have to deal with the variables in grain size but this is unacceptable.


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## Diesel80 (1/9/15)

nala said:


> I must have the same problem...milled 5.950 kilos of grain this morning it took 1 hour 20 minutes.
> The mill is about 18 months old and I think that the knurling is worn out.
> Mill is powered my Ozito high torque drill on it's slowest speed.
> I mean to try double pass milling, can't be any worse.
> I appreciate that grain mills have to deal with the variables in grain size but this is unacceptable.


Holy sh1t that is a nightmare.
Just did 9.5KG (8.8 of it TF M/O) on Friday with a different mill in about 2 minutes - if that with a similar drill to you.
Totally not acceptable.

If I lived closer to you I would offer to mill for you. maybe find others brewers in your area that could help out? At least until you get a solution / new mill.

I know a AHB member on here helped me out a few times when I put the call out. Helpful bunch round here normally!

Cheers,
D80


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## dicko (1/9/15)

I would have thought an email from the manufacturer with the current status as to the new rollers would be almost due considering the time frame involved and the inconvenience these faulty rollers are generally causing the users of the product. :unsure: :angry:


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## Rocker1986 (1/9/15)

That's insane! :blink: It didn't even take me that long with the hand crank when I had that stupid sack of malt that refused to go through the mill. I'm glad I have gotten rid of that malt now. All other malts are fine going through my mill, which is the Mashmaster. It's nearly 3 years old now.


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## dicko (2/9/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> That's insane! :blink: It didn't even take me that long with the hand crank when I had that stupid sack of malt that refused to go through the mill. I'm glad I have gotten rid of that malt now. All other malts are fine going through my mill, which is the Mashmaster. It's nearly 3 years old now.


As I said above, I had a mill of a different brand that was not geared but relied on the grain being drawn through to keep it feeding and turning.
During its ten or eleven year life it never failed regardless of the brand or type of grain.

I think you are blaming the grain when the problem could ge the knurling on the rollers.


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## Crusty (2/9/15)

My Minimill is a few years old & flawless thus far. If it does crap out, I hope they agree to replace it with a MM3 Pro.


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## SJW (2/9/15)

I have a very old home made single roll mill that I bought of an old bloke who was getting out of brewing. He said it had milled 1000's of kgs of grain before I bought it. I had used it for years and worked out I ran about 50 25 kg bags through it before my son dropped some small stones in the hopper. That fixed the knurling. So I took it to work and a machinist ran a fresh knurl? over it and it is great....again. Only problem is because its only a single roller its pretty slow. So I set my drill up on the side and let it do its thing. About 5 min for 6 kgs, and I run the grain through twice. I think the mill was called a Phil Mill Mk 1

Steve


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## Rocker1986 (2/9/15)

dicko said:


> As I said above, I had a mill of a different brand that was not geared but relied on the grain being drawn through to keep it feeding and turning.
> During its ten or eleven year life it never failed regardless of the brand or type of grain.
> 
> I think you are blaming the grain when the problem could ge the knurling on the rollers.


Well that doesn't really explain why that was the only grain that I had trouble with though, does it? Every other type/brand of base grain, crystal, roasted, or whatever, has had no problem at all being drawn through the mill. It was only that one sack of Simpsons MO. That suggests to me that it was the grain and not the mill. Not having a go, that's just what my experience has been.


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## dicko (2/9/15)

No probs Rocker,

If you have trouble with any other grains just give them a slight moisten with a spray bottle to soften the husk a bit. :beer:


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## stompnground (4/9/15)

same problem with my Keg King...really looking forward to the new Mashmaster model... anyone got an ETA on its arrival?


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## huez (7/9/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> Well that doesn't really explain why that was the only grain that I had trouble with though, does it? Every other type/brand of base grain, crystal, roasted, or whatever, has had no problem at all being drawn through the mill. It was only that one sack of Simpsons MO. That suggests to me that it was the grain and not the mill. Not having a go, that's just what my experience has been.


I started noticing issues with mine when i tried milling maris otter, then after that i had issues with every type of grain. 



stompnground said:


> same problem with my Keg King...really looking forward to the new Mashmaster model... anyone got an ETA on its arrival?


couple of months yet apparently


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## Diesel80 (8/9/15)

Why are ppl looking forward to new models of the same when they have failed so bad? Long live the monster with SS rollers! Maybe skip a gen and make sure their sh1t is sorted out this time round? 
Is the appeal the fact they are geared mills?
Curious as mine isn't.

Cheers
D80


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## Rocker1986 (8/9/15)

huez said:


> I started noticing issues with mine when i tried milling maris otter, then after that i had issues with every type of grain.


Dang. That sucks! I only had issues with Simpsons MO but the Fawcetts MO has been fine. Also used Wey floor malted Bo Pils over the last few months with no issues. Maybe that sack had been poorly stored and dried out too much or something.


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## Mr B (8/9/15)

huez said:


> I started noticing issues with mine when i tried milling maris otter, then after that i had issues with every type of grain.


Thats interesting, I think I may be in the same boat.

Cant recall if mine got slower, or it coincided to when I got a sack of MO, but I definitely had problems which suddenly increased in severity. Frank replaced the main drive roller, for which I was very grateful, however I havent noticed any difference - I have to push the grain through with the mash paddle handle and it still takes half an hour. I have been meaning to chase it up with him, need to do that.


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## huez (8/9/15)

Mr B said:


> Thats interesting, I think I may be in the same boat.
> 
> Cant recall if mine got slower, or it coincided to when I got a sack of MO, but I definitely had problems which suddenly increased in severity. Frank replaced the main drive roller, for which I was very grateful, however I havent noticed any difference - I have to push the grain through with the mash paddle handle and it still takes half an hour. I have been meaning to chase it up with him, need to do that.


I could have been in the same to be honest, maybe i just didn't notice it until i got a sack of MO. But after that it was a nightmare ha! At its worse it was taking an hour for 5kgs.

Frank is pretty good on the emails, i've always appreciated his honesty. No harm in a follow up email. I recently spoke to him and the new design is definitely on its way


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## BrutusB (1/12/15)

huez said:


> I could have been in the same to be honest, maybe i just didn't notice it until i got a sack of MO. But after that it was a nightmare ha! At its worse it was taking an hour for 5kgs.
> 
> Frank is pretty good on the emails, i've always appreciated his honesty. No harm in a follow up email. I recently spoke to him and the new design is definitely on its way


Has anyone had an update on the new rollers?


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## Parks (1/12/15)

"Hopefully" by late December I was told last week.


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## huez (19/12/15)

I was told before Christmas a couple months ago. He's at the mercy of the manufacturer though, seems to be some hold ups


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## bradsbrew (10/1/16)

Wetting the grain definately helps. Running the grain through dry can take upto an hour for 5 kg. Around 120ml into 5.5kg took under 5 minutes.

Cheers


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## BrutusB (14/1/16)

The mills are back in stock on the mashmaster website now with fluted rollers - http://www.mashmaster.com.au/p/4571858/millmaster-grain-mill.html Has anyone had an update?


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## Batz (14/1/16)

I wonder what the crush is like with the fluted rollers, one could imagine the husks being rather damaged. Perhaps a flour build up in the flutes as well?
Someone will get one and report back in time I guess.


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## Mardoo (14/1/16)

Fluted rollers are one of the major standards in professional mills, the other being large diameter smooth rollers, so I'd be surprised if there are inherent problems with the flutes. I've always read that there's less tearing with flutes than with knurls. If that's a word.


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## Batz (14/1/16)

Well I hope all is good, one day my poor old valley mill will have to pack it in and perhaps this maybe the replacement.


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

well I sent an email off this morning (didn't see the point hassling people over the xmas break), will see what comes of it. From posts in the other thread it sounds like some of the replacement knurled rollers are beginning to have the same issue. I wonder if they will replace with the fluted or offer a pay-the-difference arrangement for the upgrade (the new mills are 50 bones dearer than what I paid a year ago).

link to post in other thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/?p=1340497


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## malt and barley blues (14/1/16)

The only thing I can see with a fluted mill is an inconsistent crush, are the rollers in sync? If not where the grain falls into the hollow of both flutes then the crush would be less, if this is how it is supposed to work and presuming the rollers aren't in sync then the crush would be more where the peak and the hollow mesh in.
Has anyone got a fluted mill?


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## Mardoo (14/1/16)

They're geared.


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## bradsbrew (14/1/16)

malt & barley blues said:


> The only thing I can see with a fluted mill is an inconsistent crush, are the rollers in sync? If not where the grain falls into the hollow of both flutes then the crush would be less, if this is how it is supposed to work and presuming the rollers aren't in sync then the crush would be more where the peak and the hollow mesh in.
> Has anyone got a fluted mill?


Fluted Rollers

asymmetrical saw-tooth fluted rollers designed to provide a cutting on cutting crush as found in high end commercial mill rollers 
angled flutes to provide additional strength, durability and a improved crush distribution
made from heat treated 420 Stainless Steel


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## malt and barley blues (14/1/16)

That makes sense then, so the mills with the free running knurled roller will not be able to interchange to the fluted.


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## bradsbrew (14/1/16)

Free running rollers of what mill? Mashmaster is geared.


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## Spiesy (14/1/16)

BrutusB said:


> The mills are back in stock on the mashmaster website now with fluted rollers - http://www.mashmaster.com.au/p/4571858/millmaster-grain-mill.html Has anyone had an update?


Looks awesome!


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## malt and barley blues (14/1/16)

I was a fitter machinist and made my own with a free running knurled roller,but I case hardened my rollers and they are still working fine.


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## Rocker1986 (14/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> well I sent an email off this morning (didn't see the point hassling people over the xmas break), will see what comes of it. From posts in the other thread it sounds like some of the replacement knurled rollers are beginning to have the same issue. I wonder if they will replace with the fluted or offer a pay-the-difference arrangement for the upgrade (the new mills are 50 bones dearer than what I paid a year ago).
> 
> link to post in other thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/?p=1340497


Wondering the same thing myself actually. I would prefer to simply replace the rollers on my mill rather than the whole thing since apart from those, there is nothing wrong with it. Different grains go through more easily than others which is annoying, it would be nice to have them all pretty much the same, rather than spending 45+ minutes milling a few kg of MO and then 30 seconds for 500g Munich or whatever. Will keep an eye out.


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## BrutusB (14/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> well I sent an email off this morning (didn't see the point hassling people over the xmas break), will see what comes of it. From posts in the other thread it sounds like some of the replacement knurled rollers are beginning to have the same issue. I wonder if they will replace with the fluted or offer a pay-the-difference arrangement for the upgrade (the new mills are 50 bones dearer than what I paid a year ago).
> 
> link to post in other thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/?p=1340497


Thanks. Please let us know the outcome of the email.


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

Will do.


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## HBHB (14/1/16)

Will have a bunch of them here within a few days and will hook one of them up as a second mill on the bench to give it a run. The new style rollers are being done by a couple of US manufacturers as well, with good results.

Be interesting to see what it's like with 1.5hp explosion proof auger motor driving it. :blink:


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

Update - retailer got back to me quickly and I'm now in contact with mashmaster.
just took a pic of the knurling:





update:
reply within minutes, fluted rollers being posted as a replacement. great customer service from both craftbrewer & mashmaster.


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## SBOB (14/1/16)

for those of us playing at home, whats the issue with the knurling in that pic?


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

It's flattened off at the 'tip'. It doesn't look too bad at this stage but it's enough for some grain types to slide above the gap & not be pulled through. I'm sure if I persevered with it, it would get worse.

there's a comparison photo in this thread (it's a bit blurry but you get the idea):

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/?p=1263001


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## SBOB (14/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> It's flattened off at the 'tip'. It doesn't look too bad at this stage but it's enough for some grain types to slide above the gap & not be pulled through. I'm sure if I persevered with it, it would get worse.
> 
> there's a comparison photo in this thread (it's a bit blurry but you get the idea):
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70875-millmaster-mini-mill-slow-after-adjusting-gap/?p=1263001


Thanks
I have a crankenstein mill but never compared against other brands for what 'good knurling' or 'bad knurling' looked like


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

it's strange. My old Marga (adapted flour mill) had much smaller knurling and never skipped a beat. It was a 3-roller though.


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## Rocker1986 (14/1/16)

That's basically what the knurling on my rollers looks like as well. I got mine over 3 years ago and only started running into problems probably about a year ago. Wouldn't mind giving the fluted rollers a go but I have no idea where the receipt for the original purchase is now. :blink:


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

if you bought them online you'll probably have an order confirmation email somewhere


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## Rocker1986 (14/1/16)

I bought the whole thing new in store from Craftbrewer when I got my urn and whatever else to begin doing AG. I'll have a look around though.


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## Zorco (14/1/16)

I got mine from Craftbrewer about a year ago and noticed on my last crush that grain wasn't pulling through. I tuned the gap adjusters and achieved the feed rate that seemed normal, but the crush was too large and I ran it through again.

The photo of the knurling is excellent so I'll compare mine with that to try and identify if the problem is replicated on my unit... but do I need to have worn knurling to justify getting in touch with Craftbrewer? Or is it a systemic/engineering matter and Mashmaster are offering replacements when approached?

I could run another 100 kg through it and see if it isn't pulling through / worsening. Advice?


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## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

I don't know. I just described my experiences over the last few brews and that was enough. You should be able to go straight to mashmaster according to Australian consumer law:



> You can claim a remedy directly from the manufacturer or importer if the goods do not meet one or more of the following consumer guarantees:
> 
> acceptable quality
> matching description
> ...


https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees#consumer-guarantees-on-products-and-services

and a credit card statement should be enough as proof of purchase:
https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/prices-receipts/receipts


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## bradsbrew (14/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Update - retailer got back to me quickly and I'm now in contact with mashmaster.
> just took a pic of the knurling:
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch. No reply to me yet.


----------



## BrutusB (14/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Ouch. No reply to me yet.


Me neither.


----------



## Batz (14/1/16)

> update:
> reply within minutes, fluted rollers being posted as a replacement. great customer service from both craftbrewer & mashmaster.


That's great news Liam, try getting service like that from a ebay order. Well done Mashmaster and Craftbrewer!! :beerbang: :beerbang:


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## Hpal (14/1/16)

I'll throw my 2c in here. These cheap mills use small diameter rollers to save money and that is their downfall. The angle of the rollers is not enough to drag the grain in easily so they have to put heavy knurl on the rollers to compensate. My mill http://cdn.aussiehomebrewer.com/uploads/albums/gallery/album_1215/gallery_26644_1215_98010.jpg uses about a 60mm diameter stainless roller. Because the stainless is fairly hard, I could only get (any only needed) a very light knurl on them. It drags the grain in no worries at all. It's all in the angle!


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## nosco (14/1/16)

I think thats why the original MM mills were so good. I wish they still made em.


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## Mardoo (14/1/16)

70mm rollers, way pricey, but looks interesting...

http://www.braufox.com.au/index.php/en-AU/shop-accessories/product/10-matt-mill-70mm/lang-en-AU

And the manufacturer's page, in German but Google Translate does a pretty good job:

http://www.mattmill.de/mattmill-kompakt/


----------



## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

^ they look great. chews through 3kg of grain per minute. Rollers are much shorter but I just did a quick calc on the volume of steel (which explains the price):
previous (dodgy knurling) mashmaster: 147cm^3 per roller
new (fluted roller) mashmaster: 155cm^3 per roller
braufox mattmill: 192cm^3 per roller

PTC the new minimills (with the fluted rollers) aren't "cheap" any more, coming in at just under 300 bones. I'm looking forward to giving it a whirl.


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## bradsbrew (14/1/16)

They have probably increased price to cover replacement costs of the dodgy ones.

Still no reply for me, Liam did you email [email protected] ?


----------



## Liam_snorkel (14/1/16)

Nope. Emailed craftbrewer first (replied to the original purchase order confirmation email), then bounced to [email protected] with Their reply


----------



## Zorco (14/1/16)

When do you think you'll get your flutes Liam? 

I'd like your opinion on the performance change.


----------



## Spiesy (15/1/16)

I don't think MashMaster have ever been considered cheap (for homebrewers), have they?

Prices would have also gone up due to the exchange rate which has dropped 30% over the last year - if production is being done in China, which I'm lead to believe it is.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/1/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> When do you think you'll get your flutes Liam?
> 
> I'd like your opinion on the performance change.


Dunno. Will update when they arrive. the performance of the knurled rollers was awesome for the first few dozen batches.



Spiesy said:


> I don't think MashMaster have ever been considered cheap (for homebrewers), have they?
> 
> Prices would have also gone up due to the exchange rate which has dropped 30% over the last year - if production is being done in China, which I'm lead to believe it is.


Yep no doubt. I think it's a fair price - assuming that fluted rollers are the ducks nuts.


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## krausenhaus (15/1/16)

I emailed Mashmaster yesterday but no reply as yet. He did say when I contacted him back in June that they would send replacement rollers out to those with duds once they got them.


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## booargy (15/1/16)

I'm thinking of getting a new or different one and using the one I have as a feeder to mash in with. This will feed the milled grain into a hydrator at a constant rate to allow for automated mash in without dough balls. This is how they get coal into a power station boiler only the ground coal is mixed with air and blown into the furnace.


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## BrutusB (15/1/16)

Gents, If you're requesting replacement rollers - send an email to [email protected] as you can be sure Frank will get it.


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## krausenhaus (16/1/16)

BrutusB said:


> Gents, If you're requesting replacement rollers - send an email to [email protected] as you can be sure Frank will get it.


Aha. I had sent it to a different email address that I used to contact him last year. Sent to the above and got a reply within minutes!

He's going to send me a single fluted roller as they don't have full sets right now, but he reckons a fluted/knurled combo works just fine so I'm happy with that.


----------



## Mr B (17/1/16)

A post to give a rap to Frank from mashmaster. I have had trouble with my mill rollers, for which they supplied a replacement roller, and which I was still having problems with. Emailed after 10pm last night (Saturday), and got a reply within minutes that a replacement roller would be sent as above.

You seriously cannot expect any better service than that.

Despite the issues, Mashmaster is seriously committed to a solution, and absolutely to quality customer service.

I have no affitliation etc, and would rather that my mill worked as intended, but I simply must make mention of the after sales support.

Thanks Frank


----------



## Batz (17/1/16)

Sounds like the past problems are just that, customer service is second to none. Looking forward to the reviews on the new mills.
Just send me a mill for valuation and I give both Frank and Ross a cuddle.....well Frank maybe and Ross a friendly wave from a distance. :lol: :beerbang:


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## BrutusB (19/1/16)

Anyone got the replacement rollers or a new mill yet?


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## Rocker1986 (20/1/16)

Just emailed and as per Mr B's post, reply within minutes and he's going to send me out a single fluted roller to replace one of the knurled rollers with. That's brilliant! If it gets here before Tuesday I'll test it out as I'm doing a brew day then.


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## nosco (20/1/16)

Is he only offering one as a replacement or is that all he has in stock?


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## bradsbrew (20/1/16)

nosco said:


> Is he only offering one as a replacement or is that all he has in stock?


Francis has trialled a new fluted short roller with a worn knurled roller and apparently it works fine. Considering the effort and replacements he has already done I think that is fair. I dont really care what the rollers look like as long as the unit works as it should.
When I get my replacement roller I will run some grain through it and report back

Cheers


----------



## Parks (20/1/16)

I should have my new rollers by Friday so I will attempt to do a side-by-side with 2 different gaps measuring the time taken and with a photo of the crush.

I'll do something like this, all with 1kg of the same base malt:

Old rollers, 1.25mm
Old rollers, 0.9mm
New rollers, 1.25mm
New rollers, 0.9mm

My current rollers are possibly a bit more problematic than other people here - they are not perfectly cylindrical (i.e., the ends are smaller than the middle) so this may or may not be of use.


----------



## nosco (20/1/16)

Yeah my rollers are smaller diameter at the ends too


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## huez (20/1/16)

My mill turned up today, its impressive. Haven't had a chance to run grain through it yet as everything is at my work and due to some idiot driver before christmas i'm on the pushy until i get a new car. Hopefully get everything home by the weekend to brew and will take some action shots including some photos of the milled grain.

I can't see there being any issue with the grain getting pulled through anymore, will be interesting to see the quality of the crush though.


----------



## Smokomark (21/1/16)

My new rollers arrived today. 

I've got 20kg of mixed grain ready to be milled for a quad batch of Aussie Old.
If it goes alright I might just double up and throw a sack of BB ale thru it as well.
If it doesn't go so well I have a MM2 ready for action.

It's been a while since there's been 8 or 10 cubes in the pool.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (22/1/16)

Hoping mine arrive soon, getting desperate to brew but don't want to spend 2 hours milling.


----------



## huez (22/1/16)

Parks said:


> I should have my new rollers by Friday so I will attempt to do a side-by-side with 2 different gaps measuring the time taken and with a photo of the crush.
> 
> I'll do something like this, all with 1kg of the same base malt:
> 
> ...


I ran a few kg through mine last night at different gap settings. It behaves a lot differently to a normal knurled milled,obviously due to the flutes. I got decent results at 0.7mm and after talking to frank he suggested starting at 0.6mm. 

I'm gonna go with 0.6 for a brew on the weekend and see how it goes.


----------



## Smokomark (22/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Hoping mine arrive soon, getting desperate to brew but don't want to spend 2 hours milling.



That's the main reason I've brewed **** all for the last few months. 

I've got 22 cubes full of sodium perc in the shed. I'd rather have them filled with something else


----------



## Parks (22/1/16)

huez said:


> I ran a few kg through mine last night at different gap settings. It behaves a lot differently to a normal knurled milled,obviously due to the flutes. I got decent results at 0.7mm and after talking to frank he suggested starting at 0.6mm.
> 
> I'm gonna go with 0.6 for a brew on the weekend and see how it goes.


Yeah, my replacements turned up yesterday and the flutes are way more aggressive than I expected. At a guess they're over 1mm deep so there will definitely be some adjustments needed.


----------



## bradsbrew (22/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Hoping mine arrive soon, getting desperate to brew but don't want to spend 2 hours milling.


Hoping mine turn up today too.

In the mean time just mix 100ml of water through the grain before milling, works a treat.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (22/1/16)

Good news: mine arrived today! 
Bad news: the passive roller is a bit too snug in each of the copper bearings. I can just get them in but it's so tight it's seized and a real bitch to get back off. 
I've thrown them in the freezer and will have another go tomorrow but realistically, I think I'll have to dremel them out.


----------



## Camo6 (22/1/16)

Dunno if I'd take a Dremel to brass bearings Liam. I'd be more inclined to wrap a bit of wet and dry around a suitably sized shaft and apply an action akin to a pre-pubescent boy in front of the computer.
I'm getting really nervous now about having my mill out of action for so long. Would hate to find out I have faulty knurling down the track and have to pay to replace them. Will use the mill this weekend and give it a good inspection.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (22/1/16)

Valve lapping compound on the shaft. Mount brass bearing in vice and spin the shaft into it with your hands.

If you have ever lapped valves you will know what I am talking about


----------



## huez (22/1/16)

Why don't you email mashmaster and ask advice. You might end up in a worse situation then you already are!

Hard to tell with photos really but this is the new rollers set at 0.6mm for those that are interested. Tomorrow i might put some through at 0mm and see the result. 

I also made an mdf plate on the cnc today to try and get a monster mill hopper to fit, actually worked out near perfectly and to be honest probably suits the length of the millmaster better than the monster mill


----------



## Camo6 (22/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Valve lapping compound on the shaft. Mount brass bearing in vice and spin the shaft into it with your hands.
> 
> If you have ever lapped valves you will know what I am talking about


But if you saw a pre-pubescent boy in front of the computer using a valve lapping motion you'd tell him he was doing it wrong.
Jokes aside I wouldn't hold a brass bearing in a vice and expect it to remain concentric to the shaft.


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## Zorco (22/1/16)

Hey Huez


> My mill turned up today, its impressive.


For my like-for-like comparisons of the results we're all starting to post: Did you buy the new mill with both driven fluted rollers? If not, what is your roller operation / configuration?

Thanks for posting your results so far!

Cosdog


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## huez (22/1/16)

I had actually sent my mill back to craftbrewer for a refund. So, it's a brand new mill direct from mashmaster. There's obviously a few design changes overall, including new adjuster knobs which i think are a lot better as they have markings. Also the dual drive, one end of the roller for a motor driven set up and the other end that will fit a standard drill, not that i will use it but its a pretty good idea. Could also be the reason some people are only getting single rollers as the new driven roller wouldn't fit the old mill.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/1/16)

Camo6 said:


> But if you saw a pre-pubescent boy in front of the computer using a valve lapping motion you'd tell him he was doing it wrong.
> Jokes aside I wouldn't hold a brass bearing in a vice and expect it to remain concentric to the shaft.


Well I would try and mount the housing in the vice, if not then just use 2 pieces of notched wood


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## TidalPete (22/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Liam_snorkel, on 22 Jan 2016 - 3:29 PM, said:
> 
> Good news: mine arrived today!
> Bad news: the passive roller is a bit too snug in each of the copper bearings. I can just get them in but it's so tight it's seized and a real bitch to get back off.
> I've thrown them in the freezer and will have another go tomorrow but realistically, I think I'll have to dremel them out.


Fine grit emery!
Too easy snorkel. B)


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## bradsbrew (22/1/16)

TidalPete said:


> Fine grit emery!
> Too easy snorkel. B)


Where the bloody hell have you been hiding Pete.


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## Parks (22/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Where the bloody hell have you been hiding Pete.


Making sure no AHB bastard is fiddling with his regulator I expect h34r: :lol:


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## Batz (22/1/16)

Parks said:


> Making sure no AHB bastard is fiddling with his regulator I expect h34r: :lol:


So that B.S. was spread around as well, just goes to show.


----------



## TidalPete (23/1/16)

Batz said:


> Batz, on 22 Jan 2016 - 9:46 PM, said:Batz, on 22 Jan 2016 - 9:46 PM, said:Batz, on 22 Jan 2016 - 9:46 PM, said:Batz, on 22 Jan 2016 - 9:46 PM, said:
> So that B.S. was spread around as well, just goes to show.





> QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Making sure no AHB bastard is fiddling with his regulator I expect


 Well now, that does just go to show, doesn't it Batz. 

Quote 2 was our private & personal one-on-one conversation by PM & that conversation has been spread far & wide & so I must publicly object to the gossip you spread.


Over & Out.

PS ----- Way off topic I know & my humble apologies brewers.


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## Liam_snorkel (23/1/16)

Cheers for the advice fellas, this is why I asked the AHB Brains Trust prior to doing anything drastic. I've had s go using wet & dry but didn't seem to be getting anywhere with it. Cheers Pete, I'll try to get my hands on some emery cloth.
Also Huez - the driven roller fits fine in the old housing, the issue is only getting the passive roller to fit in the adjusting knobs.


----------



## winkle (23/1/16)

smokomark said:


> My new rollers arrived today.
> 
> I've got 20kg of mixed grain ready to be milled for a quad batch of Aussie Old.
> If it goes alright I might just double up and throw a sack of BB ale thru it as well.
> ...


Happiness is a pool full of cubes.


----------



## Smokomark (23/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Good news: mine arrived today!
> Bad news: the passive roller is a bit too snug in each of the copper bearings. I can just get them in but it's so tight it's seized and a real bitch to get back off.
> I've thrown them in the freezer and will have another go tomorrow but realistically, I think I'll have to dremel them out.


Same here. I used some fine valve grinding paste and worked them on and off by hand for about 10 mins each end. They still take a little bit of effort to spin them on the shaft.






Liam_snorkel said:


> - the driven roller fits fine in the old housing,


Mine would've gone in with the help of a sledgehammer or a press. Well over an hours work needed on this roller - probably closer to 2

All assembled now ( with lead based anti seize compound ) but still just a touch too tight to turn over by hand. - it will lap itself in ok.
Put the old drill back on at normal slow speed, approx 100rpm and threw a handful of grain in. Must of blinked coz i didn't even see it go thru.
1kg of grain in the hopper and a few seconds later I had the best looking crush ever - **** all flour and every grain cracked - far better looking than anything I had ever milled or anything that I had bought milled from a supplier.
1kg used to take around 2 to 3 minutes.


----------



## Smokomark (23/1/16)

9 minutes and 53 seconds for a 25kg sack.
That used to take around an hour.

And a way better looking crush


----------



## Parks (23/1/16)

What gap Mark?


----------



## Parks (23/1/16)

And two new rollers or one?


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## Liam_snorkel (23/1/16)

Ok fellas i got them going, thank **** for grinding paste!


----------



## Smokomark (23/1/16)

Two new rollers,Troy. 
I tried .6 up to 1mm and thought .8 -.9 looked best.


----------



## bradsbrew (23/1/16)

Haven't got mine yet, so wetting the grain it is.


----------



## BrutusB (23/1/16)

After reading the previous I'm worried about fitting these rollers and I'm assuming they're not coming with instructions?


----------



## Zorco (23/1/16)

smokomark said:


> Two new rollers,Troy.
> I tried .6 up to 1mm and thought .8 -.9 looked best.


Is the torque transferred to both fluted rollers by gears, like the original knurled rollers? Or is one of them passive - free spinning?


----------



## Mardoo (23/1/16)




----------



## Parks (23/1/16)

I lost all interest in the experiment worrying about the rollers fitting (sorry guys...) but after that my bushes fit perfectly - phew.

So it's definitely not everyone that has the problem with the new rollers fitting.

HOWEVER...

The keyed drive shaft is now longer than before so I'll have to adjust my coupling. The keyed section of the shaft is the same length but the section that sits in the bushing is longer by 15mm (making it 15mm longer overall).


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Ok fellas i got them going, thank **** for grinding paste!


So you spend all afternoon lapping the monkey.....


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/1/16)

Parks said:


> HOWEVER...
> 
> The keyed drive shaft is now longer than before so I'll have to adjust my coupling. The keyed section of the shaft is the same length but the section that sits in the bushing is longer by 15mm (making it 15mm longer overall).


----------



## Liam_snorkel (23/1/16)

I'm getting great crush at about 1.2mm. 18V cordless on low speed reverse it pulls through at about 1kg/25secs. Definitely faster than the original rollers ever did and seems to be less flour


----------



## Liam_snorkel (23/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> So you spend all afternoon lapping the monkey.....


Yeah mate it wasn't fun. The bastard bit me too. 

Once I got them moving (but still stiff) I hooked it up to the drill with the grinding paste still in there until it rolled nicely. Then cleaned them out and applied some silicone lube.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/1/16)

A much better result than butchering it with a dremel.


----------



## Batz (23/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> I'm getting great crush at about 1.2mm. 18V cordless on low speed reverse it pulls through at about 1kg/25secs. Definitely faster than the original rollers ever did and seems to be less flour
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a good crush.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (23/1/16)

Some feedback from Francis if anyone is having trouble fitting the new roller:

"I will be sending out some 180 and 240 grit quality sandpaper with replacement rollers soon, tolerance on the new rollers were a little tighter. its the difference between 0.07 and 0.018mm approximately."


----------



## Parks (23/1/16)

Tell you what I wouldn't want to get my fingers anywhere near these when they're going!


----------



## Eagleburger (24/1/16)

This is good news. Took over an hour to mill 10kg tonight. Three times as long as it takes to get 71L to 55degC.


----------



## Crusty (24/1/16)

Is there a specific purchase date range of affected Mills. I got mine from Craftbrewer a few years back & mine still seems ok. Are they all being replaced? I'm hoping mine doesn't decide to give me grief.


----------



## Parks (24/1/16)

I expect it's simply a case-by-case basis Eagleburger. If you haven't had problems now I would think you're fine.


----------



## Parks (24/1/16)

Holy Turk these rollers are beasts. This was 1kg of JW Pale at 0.7mm* with the motion dynamics stock worm drive motor (I haven't actually checked the speed but it seems pretty spot on)

It took 1min 10 seconds. 0.9mm wasn't even doable with the old rollers.

It seems to have actually de-husked a lot of grain but leaving both the husk and the inner grain mostly solid (cracked in 2 or 3 pieces).

Very little flour.

15 min into a pale ale in my grainfather and its recirculating perfectly. So happy right now.

*note: I set my gap by adjusting in against the feeler gauge. These rollers would have varying gaps with the depth of the flute so it wouldn't be comparable with other knurled rollers.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/1/16)

My 50mm "Tony" mill rollers do 5kg in under 1min @ ~180rpm


----------



## Parks (24/1/16)

I should have also noted that the design of my hopper (an old 10-15L Spring water bottle) doesn't make full use of the roller length.


----------



## MastersBrewery (24/1/16)

Be interesting to see how the new less flour crush affects efficiency.


----------



## bradsbrew (24/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Be interesting to see how the new less flour crush affects efficiency.


Also how the grainfather handles it at sparge time.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Be interesting to see how the new less flour crush affects efficiency.


More flour will give more eff%....BUT.... to much and it turns into Clag Glue. And from personal experience, it is very difficult to sparge.

I found just shy of 30% to be as high as you can go without having to resort to using swear words and un lady-like language

Grain wetting is the go


----------



## MastersBrewery (24/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> More flour will give more eff%....BUT.... to much and it turns into Clag Glue. And from personal experience, it is very difficult to sparge.
> 
> I found just shy of 30% to be as high as you can go without having to resort to using swear words and un lady-like language
> 
> Grain wetting is the go


I have a normal knurled mill and would agree, however the guys with these fluted rollers are finding even at .7mm they are getting very little flour, though the grain is being completely de-husked, something a knurled roller can't do.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> I have a normal knurled mill and would agree, however the guys with these fluted rollers are finding even at .7mm they are getting very little flour, though the grain is being completely de-husked, something a knurled roller can't do.


This is true


----------



## Liam_snorkel (24/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> I have a normal knurled mill and would agree, however the guys with these fluted rollers are finding even at .7mm they are getting very little flour, though the grain is being completely de-husked, something a knurled roller can't do.


I ran a few kg through at about .8mm this morning and that's about right. Completely dehusked, not too floury. I didn't take a photo. The main difference is that it works my drill a *lot* harder than it does at ~1mm.


----------



## MastersBrewery (24/1/16)

I run a brauclone, my interest here is; if efficiency is as good, and less flour = better flow, then there is the possibility that max grain bill for a given system of this type maybe increased. eg Most would say a 20L Bm would max out @ 5.5-6kg of grain, with a better flowing bed perhaps 6-6.5kg may well be achievable. The BM was designed with standard beers in mind, 1060 og requires work, this may change that.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/1/16)

If you run a high % of flour, it also pays to bump up your Grain:Water ratio in your mash


----------



## Batz (24/1/16)

I'll be interested in the crush (with less flour) and how the BM efficiency is or is not affected. It does sound like these mills have solved the past problems, great news and top costumer service. Took a while but looking good now. 

Batz


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/1/16)

I want to see pics of the new fluted rollers


----------



## MastersBrewery (24/1/16)

Batz,
I'm sure the time it's taken was all Dev and QC, which is great to see, not to mention the backup service the guys here have received.
Hell I don't even own one, but I may in the future


----------



## seamad (24/1/16)

mardoo posted a picture of the new mill, post #129. Can't see how sharp the flutes are, but what happens when they "blunt " ?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (24/1/16)

seamad said:


> mardoo posted a picture of the new mill, post #129.


Indeed he did.


----------



## Batz (24/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Batz,
> I'm sure the time it's taken was all Dev and QC, which is great to see, not to mention the backup service the guys here have received.
> Hell I don't even own one, but I may in the future


Yes I agree. And I may in the future own one as well. If your brewing and your mill does not work for 1.5 - 2 years you may get a little pissed.


----------



## bradsbrew (24/1/16)

Batz said:


> Yes I agree. And I may in the future own one as well. If your brewing and your mill does not work for 1.5 - 2 years you may get a little pissed.


More than a little pissed. A crappy mill really ruins the hobby.
May sound dramatic, but if your brew day is fucked and the fun gone before you mash in, it gets to the point you would rather just buy a FWK. Not to mention the inconsistent quality of the crush.


----------



## Mardoo (24/1/16)

Anyone who has dealt with one knows it's not dramatic. Mine works OK, emphasis on the O and the K, but a mate's mill was, well, struggling is a kind word. 90 minutes to mill 4 kilos of grain? Faaaaaaaaaark.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (24/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I want to see pics of the new fluted rollers


Here you go:


----------



## razz (24/1/16)

That looks as hard as a cats head.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (24/1/16)

seamad said:


> mardoo posted a picture of the new mill, post #129. Can't see how sharp the flutes are, but what happens when they "blunt " ?


See above, the 2nd pic shows it better. They seem unlikely to blunt, the most acute angle is 90deg.


----------



## seamad (24/1/16)

thanks Liam, can't see those suckers getting blunter, they're not sharp to start with.Looks like they'll last a long time.


----------



## huez (25/1/16)

If the cutting edge gets blunt you can flip the mill upside down and it will use the opposite edge. I can't imagine them ever getting to the point where they won't pull in the grain though, especially on the home brew level of users.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (25/1/16)

Btw that second photo is the under side. So the leading edge that pulls the grain through is the 90deg


----------



## HBHB (25/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Be interesting to see how the new less flour crush affects efficiency.


Shouldn't be a problem


----------



## Mardoo (25/1/16)

Any news on grain bed, sparge or efficiency? There were reports on some of the German forums of a similar crush increasing efficiency.


----------



## Rocker1986 (25/1/16)

I haven't got my replacement roller yet, and I only do BIAB, but I did find that widening the gap on my mill and getting a coarser crush has coincided with getting better efficiency. Also began stirring the mash periodically at the same time, so not sure which change in process is responsible for it, but if it continues then I'm happy.


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## Parks (25/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Btw that second photo is the under side. So the leading edge that pulls the grain through is the 90deg


My rollers are opposite each other - one side is sharp edge down the other roller is the other way.


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## Mardoo (25/1/16)

Yep, that's what they call sharp-to-sharp, amongst the other possible orientations in mills. The Wolf mills site used to have some explanation of the different types.

Edit: Here it is. Some say it's the best orientation. Some don't.

http://www.wolfengineering.com.au/grinding_and_fluting.html


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## Liam_snorkel (25/1/16)

Parks said:


> My rollers are opposite each other - one side is sharp edge down the other roller is the other way.


 ah you're right, I was only looking at the passive roller.


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## bradsbrew (25/1/16)

Received the replacement roller today, had the same problem as Liam with the shim thingos. Tried .8mm to 1.1 but just enough to sit in the rollers, will get a better idea once it all goes back together.
1.1mm with the fluted and knurled looks like a pretty good crush. Wont be brewing for a few more weeks and will see then.

On a side note, its amazing that not a word was said about me doing this on the kitchen bench, now that the house is sold.


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## Rocker1986 (25/1/16)

Mine arrived today as well, will fit it to the mill soon in preparation for tomorrow's brew day and report back the results.


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## bradsbrew (25/1/16)

Ok, could not help myself and just ran 1kg through. Not much flour as such but there's alot of small bits but there is also alot of empty husks which should help sparging in the grainfather. Seriously, i cant find one uncrushed grain. Admittedly it is only 1 grain, wey pils. Smashed through it in no time at all.
Now i better clean this mess up in the kitchen before the netflix episode finishes and the headphones come off.
Now to just wait for the hopper to be released and i can replace the hopper i put together as an inbetween waiting for the mm hopper a couple of years ago.


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## Rocker1986 (26/1/16)

Just milled the grain for today's brew day which is now mashing away in the urn. The mill went much better today, pulling the grain through at a decent rate and giving a decent looking crush, similar to what bradsbrew's photos show there. It took about ten minutes but that was more due to me adjusting the gap setting to where I wanted it. Not exactly sure what the setting is, guessing about 0.9 or 1mm. Either way, big thanks to Frank for the replacement roller, great to have the mill working properly again.


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## nosco (26/1/16)

Just took me 35 min to mill 6kg of grain with 1mm gap and that was with me pushing down on it with a bit of pine. I watched the last 500g or so it just sat there until i swished it around. When i say mill i do mean mill. So much powder. Ive never had so many dough balls and i biab.
Ill have to send an email later today.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/16)

nosco said:


> Just took me 35 min to mill 6kg of grain with 1mm gap and that was with me pushing down on it with a bit of pine. I watched the last 500g or so it just sat there until i swished it around. When i say mill i do mean mill. So much powder. Ive never had so many dough balls and i biab.
> Ill have to send an email later today.



Open the gap up. If your gap is to tight it wont grab the grains.

I have always opened it wide then gradually close the gap until I get the crush I want


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## Rocker1986 (26/1/16)

I don't think the gap is the main problem here. Even with mine opened up it still wouldn't grab and pull the grains through very well. Until now, with the replacement roller, that is. The gap now is set a lot narrower than it was when I had the two knurled rollers in it, and the grain goes through perfectly well. Only takes a few minutes to mill the ~5kg for a standard batch, as opposed to an hour or so with the old roller and a wider gap.

Nosco I'd say shoot off an email as you planned. 35 minutes for 6kg is too long, not as long as my hour or so but still it's obviously not working as it should be. A replacement fluted roller will solve the problem. B)


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## nosco (26/1/16)

I should have opened up the gap but that didnt occure to me until I filled the hopper. Could have fluffed around with the gages from underneath but couldnt be naffed. It was supposed to be a quick brew day. Only just getting to the boil now. Ill still send of an email with some pics.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/16)

I just thought, is the 2nd roller a lazy one or is it driven by the first one ?

I use to have to prime my mill with a few grains wedged in before starting it to get the second roller to drive as soon as it is turned on, otherwise the grain would just sit there and get ground into flour with the 2nd roller not spining


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## nosco (26/1/16)

Its geared so no worries there.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/16)

nosco said:


> Its geared so no worries there.


Mmmm...dont know then. Seems very odd.


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## Rocker1986 (26/1/16)

They don't work properly because the knurling gets worn down and the rollers don't grip the grains to pull them through the mill. This is why the whole design of the rollers has been revised and changed to a fluted design. Even with one knurled and one fluted roller, the grains get pulled through quite quickly and it only takes a few minutes to mill the few kg of grain I use in a standard batch. It should do that with the knurled rollers as well, which it did when new, but once they wear down they screw up.


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## bradsbrew (26/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Mmmm...dont know then. Seems very odd.


It is odd Stu. The knurling should still catch and drag but it doesn't, the grain just bounces around, no matter how fast or slow.


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## bradsbrew (26/1/16)

Rocker1986 said:


> They don't work properly because the knurling gets worn down and the rollers don't grip the grains to pull them through the mill. This is why the whole design of the rollers has been revised and changed to a fluted design. Even with one knurled and one fluted roller, the grains get pulled through quite quickly and it only takes a few minutes to mill the few kg of grain I use in a standard batch. It should do that with the knurled rollers as well, which it did when new, but once they wear down they screw up.


My old marga didnt have as course a knurling but pulled it through.
Maybe the gearing actually prohibits the grip once worn?


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## Zorco (26/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great image quality again Liam. Your mill looks different from the stock image sent earlier where the gears were visible.

I gather one is driven and the other is passive?

If so, there seems to be three permutations of mill now.

New mill with 2 x fluted rollers with gears driving both rollers
Liam's type mill with two replacement fluted rollers, one driven one passive (TBC)
Brad's type mill with one replacement fluted roller, knurled roller driven and fluted passive.
Not sure if I've missed another design.

And the overall consensus is that ALL are excellent. Almost like the mere presence of a fluted roller re-births the mill... 

Birthing references aside....have I got this summary correct?


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## bradsbrew (26/1/16)

All rollers on mashmaster mills are driven by gears.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/16)

Rocker1986 said:


> They don't work properly because the knurling gets worn down and the rollers don't grip the grains to pull them through the mill. This is why the whole design of the rollers has been revised and changed to a fluted design. Even with one knurled and one fluted roller, the grains get pulled through quite quickly and it only takes a few minutes to mill the few kg of grain I use in a standard batch. It should do that with the knurled rollers as well, which it did when new, but once they wear down they screw up.


The knurling would have to worn down fairly well, even flat rollers can crush grain ( mind you they have to be bigger in diameter)


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## CmdrRyekr (26/1/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Great image quality again Liam. Your mill looks different from the stock image sent earlier where the gears were visible.
> 
> I gather one is driven and the other is passive?
> 
> ...


No. Both rollers on all mashmaster minimills are driven, via the gears seen elsewhere in the thread. Note in the above picture one end of the rollers is not visible - that is the driven end!

End of story.


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## Liam_snorkel (26/1/16)

Yep. Sorry for confusion, if I said 'passive' earlier I meant the adjustable one which isn't *directly* driven. The adjustable roller is the one which needed the bushes to be ground down


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## S.E (26/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Maybe the gearing actually prohibits the grip once worn?


[SIZE=11pt]I think you may be onto something there, I’ve been wondering this myself. Has anyone actually tried removing the gears so they have one driven and one passive roller? [/SIZE]


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## Markbeer (26/1/16)

A larger diameter roller is the best solution. But building a mill with such large rollers would weigh a lot and be very expensive.

Large rollers would easily grip grain and push it through. they cant bounce back as the cavity is so large and grain on top several layers in between the rollers.

I believe Frank's initial thoughts on the mini were to have rollers only a couple of inches long. But large diameter.

This would have been practical as many with hopper design and motor strength dont utilise the entire length of the rollers.

BUT, it would have been a weird looking mill. And that counts.


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## nosco (26/1/16)

Ze germans have already done it. See previous post in this thread from Mardoo. Post No.?


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## Rocker1986 (26/1/16)

CmdrRyekr said:


> No. Both rollers on all mashmaster minimills are driven, via the gears seen elsewhere in the thread. Note in the above picture one end of the rollers is not visible - that is the driven end!
> 
> End of story.


Actually on one photo both ends of the rollers are visible - I would guess in that picture that there is a gear guard on it and that's why the gears aren't visible.

I agree though, it's definitely odd. When I first bought my mill it worked as it does now, although I didn't use a drill on it then. It still didn't take a ******* hour to mill a few kg of grain, though. Maybe 15-20 minutes by hand. Then after 2 years or so it started to have problems, mainly with Maris Otter grains. Munich, Crystal, malts all went through fine still, as did the darker roasted grains. Pilsner malt was better than MO but still struggled a bit.

The replacement fluted roller has basically re-birthed it yeah. It worked terrific on today's brew day and the crush was excellent. Overshot my OG by 3 points too which was nice. Might have to adjust my Beersmith settings as this has happened on the last few batches that I have used a coarser crush on.

Can't fault the customer service from Frank at Mashmaster on this issue though, it's been bloody brilliant.


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## butisitart (26/1/16)

you need to flip the mill upside down to see the gears. the top side has a guard, presumably to stop wayward grain from landing in the gear cogs and turning the mill into a hicupping loony bin.
still building a hopper for mine so haven't used it yet. and it's my first mill so can't compare it to pre-fluted days. would love to see hopper pics to get inspiration. i couldn't find one in ikea.


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## Rocker1986 (26/1/16)

I'm not even sure what I did with the gear guard from mine. The perspex hopper that originally came with it when I bought it has one on it though, so it's no issue when using the mill. Said hopper wouldn't fit on the mill with the metal gear guard in place anyway so I took it off and put it wherever it's currently hiding. But yes, it stops the grain getting into the gears, and also from going straight through the gap between the end of the knurled/fluted part and the gears themselves and not even getting crushed at all.

I'm waiting for the new hoppers to become available and I'll get one of them for it as they can hold more grain than the perspex ones.


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## CmdrRyekr (26/1/16)

butisitart said:


> would love to see hopper pics to get inspiration. i couldn't find one in ikea.


Saw one a while ago that looks a decent size.


Mill Hopper by vortexau, on Flickr

Dunno the guy though.


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## Zorco (27/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Yep. Sorry for confusion, if I said 'passive' earlier I meant the adjustable one which isn't *directly* driven. The adjustable roller is the one which needed the bushes to be ground down


Cheers; All good now. In Frank's email to me he called it a 'replacement non drive roller' which, combined with other posts/pics I'd shifted off track. Having both rollers driven was a key criteria for my choice.




> I think you may be onto something there, I’ve been wondering this myself. Has anyone actually tried removing the gears so they have one driven and one passive roller?


When I replace my secondary roller with the fluted one I'll try and see if the gear separates.




> Can't fault the customer service from Frank at Mashmaster on this issue though, it's been bloody brilliant.


+1. Emailed Frank 10:32pm tonight and received a reply at 10:59pm. First class.


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## S.E (27/1/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> When I replace my secondary roller with the fluted one I'll try and see if the gear separates.


The gears do separate, they are held in place with three small screws. I’ve just tried removing the gear from the non drive roller so my mill now has one driven and one passive roller.

Really surprised to find that grain won’t pass through the rollers at all now. It just rolls and bounces around on top of them. Had to open the gap up till the grain could almost fall through before it worked.

Needless to say the crush wasn’t adequate.


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## dicko (27/1/16)

got my rollers in the post this morning.....Thanks Frank,/ Mashmaster and Anthony/Craftbrewer for their help.

Is there anyone on here so far, that has replaced the rollers and has a Braumeister as I was wondering what gap you have set?


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## nosco (27/1/16)

What email address did you use? The one on the mm site doesnt seem to work and i couldnt find the one mentioned earlier


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## BrutusB (27/1/16)

nosco said:


> What email address did you use? The one on the mm site doesnt seem to work and i couldnt find the one mentioned earlier


[email protected]


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## dicko (27/1/16)

OK so my mill is now up and running with the new rollers.

I set the gap at 1.118mm or 44thou in the old measurement and it milled quite well with most husks still in tact although some husks were broken in half. At that setting there were a few grains that weren't cracked but these were a very low percentage of the grist.

I then closed the roller gap to 1.016 or 40 thou in the old measurement and the crush was similar if not the same as the wider crush however close examination revealed no uncracked husks at all.

The grain I milled for the above was Barrett and Burston Ale malt.

It took 3 minutes and 18 seconds to mill 5 kilos of grain or 40 seconds per kilo. This was at a speed of 140rpm.

For the BM guys if any are involved in this exercise, I will brew at the closer setting and report back.

Putting these new rollers in is like fitting a turbo on an old Nissan Patrol :lol: :lol:


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## Batz (27/1/16)

dicko said:


> OK so my mill is now up and running with the new rollers.
> 
> I set the gap at 1.118mm or 44thou in the old measurement and it milled quite well with most husks still in tact although some husks were broken in half. At that setting there were a few grains that weren't cracked but these were a very low percentage of the grist.
> 
> ...



Did you get much flour Geoff? That is to say less than with the knurled rollers? I'll be interested to see how it goes in the BM compared with your old crush.


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Batz said:


> Did you get much flour Geoff? That is to say less than with the knurled rollers? I'll be interested to see how it goes in the BM compared with your old crush.


Hi Jeff,

I got no where near the flour from that crush that I was getting from the Mashmaster or even my old Crankenstein.

I cant wait to use it for a real brew but my cubes and fermenters are full at the moment after the extra long weekend so I wont get to brew for around a fortnite.

At this stage I am quite impressed...


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## bradsbrew (27/1/16)

Dicko, I had mine set to 44 Thou as well. Hard to tell by a pic but does the crush look similar? Just interested to see the difference between two replacements and one.


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Brad,

As far as I can tell the pic of your crush at 44 thou is similar to mine at 40 thou with the two fluted rollers...mine at 44 thou had a few uncracked grains.

I will try 40 thou in the BM and see if I get fountains.
Does the grainfather suffer loss of efficiency and wort fountains with a fine crush similar to the BM?


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## nosco (27/1/16)

The email on the mm website does work, im just impatient. I said i dontnhave a receipt but i have the record on my Full Pint account. Replacement is being sent no questions asked. Pretty dam happy with that.


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Brad, here are the pics of the crush at 40 thou


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## bradsbrew (27/1/16)

Looks very similar but hard to tell by pics.

Yes the GF has issues with the sparge if it's too fine. Having said that, I really do think most of my sparging problems were stemming from the poor crush I was getting. Will be interesting to see how it goes when I get to run a brew through with the new rollers.

Cheers


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## dicko (27/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Looks very similar but hard to tell by pics.
> 
> Yes the GF has issues with the sparge if it's too fine. Having said that, I really do think most of my sparging problems were stemming from the poor crush I was getting. Will be interesting to see how it goes when I get to run a brew through with the new rollers.
> 
> Cheers


We are only talking 4 thou here mate..hard to believe it would make a lot of difference.

Maybe we could start a new thread with our results..... with a link to this one.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/1/16)

dicko said:


> We are only talking 4 thou here mate..hard to believe it would make a lot of difference.


Different grains may also make a difference


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## Stunts (27/1/16)

Hey guys I treated myself to one of these mills and ir arrived today. Just wodering how you actually measure the gap on the mill?


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/1/16)

Stunts said:


> Hey guys I treated myself to one of these mills and ir arrived today. Just wodering how you actually measure the gap on the mill?


You will need a " Mill Gap measuring device"

Credit cards are about 1mm or go and get a set of feeler gauges


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## Stunts (27/1/16)

Sweet I have feeler gages so just stick them in between the two rollers?


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/1/16)

Stunts said:


> Sweet I have feeler gages so just stick them in between the two rollers?


Yep


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## Stunts (27/1/16)

Sounds good thanks for the heads up


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Different grains may also make a difference


yes Stu, i would imagine that if I had used Marris Otter or even some Bo Pils from Wyermann then the mill may have not left uncracked grains at 44 thou


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## Chridech (27/1/16)

I emailed Frank at MashMaster for some advice about how to measure the mill gap and what he would recommend as a starting point for an ideal crush. 0.6mm seems pretty narrow but I guess the fluted rollers are completely different to the knurled rollers. I was very impressed with the detail in his reply. I should stress that Mashmaster is not recommending a specific mill gap, rather each Brewer needs to find the correct crush that suits the grain and set up they are using. Thanks Mashmaster.

Here is the reply:



Hi Chris

Short answer, feeler gauges and about 0.6mm to be on the safe side.

Long answer:
I might ask a couple of the home brew stores that sell pre-ground malt what setting they are using with the new rollers which reflects their home brew shop crush. I have actually designed a couple things into the flutes to provide a limit maximum limit of flour that you can produce, with the old knurled rollers you could adjust them way above what you would want for brewing, with the fluted rollers you will get about 10% (full sieve set including 100 mesh) or 15% (short stack no 100 mesh) max in the pan. ASBC ideal is 5%, British Mash Tun 10% (Brits are more practical less theoretical) most commercial 2, 4 and 8 roller mills around the 7-11%. Looking at the top end sieve course particle size I would start around 0.4 mm or 0.5mm as a gap setting that is close as the briess normal grind and commercial roller mills, but such grinds may still be too fine for most people systems. If you have a look at the Rock Port Brewery study in the link courser may actually get you greater efficiency. Just to make it a little more confusing I can also change the grist distribution without changing the gap by altering the running speed of the mill, the fluted rollers are less RPM dependent than the knurled rollers (between 200 and 500RPM) I did not test any higher RPMs because I dont recommend milling that fast at slower speeds down to about 120RPM there was not a big change less than 2-3% variation statistically non significant but much more exhausting because I had to hand turn the mill instead of drill power. 

But still if you take RPMs in account it makes it harder again to recommend a gap setting. Other variables moisture contend of the malt and humidity. Wet milling is a totally different story again. I used to many years ago recommend a gap setting for one of my mills and I actually received the odd email of complaint that customers had a stuck sparge so I am just reluctant to offer my opinion based on my system. If I can get some info from the home brew shops to see what their shop grind is like I will publish the data, and no doubt it will not be long until users are out publishing their own experiences on the net. 

Feeler gauges are useful if you want to measure the gap but honestly I would not bother for brewing unless you are using somebody’s recommendations that have the same system as you and running at about the same RPM (between 200-500 the fluted rollers will change distribution pattern 2-4% depending at what pan/sieve your looking at. I have measured gap settings at 0.1mm increments and done a full sieve analysis but only because I was looking at trend lines distribution patterns for a brewer go course loose a bit efficiency (or maybe gain it according to the rockport brewery study in the link below) as opposed to stuck sparge and slow launter speed.


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You will need a " Mill Gap measuring device"
> 
> Credit cards are about 1mm or go and get a set of feeler gauges


What I have done with my Feeler Gauges is take the most expected combinations of strips of gauge for a grain mill setting and place them in reasonably useable order on the centre screw and nut of the set.
In this way, if you have combined the most common mill gap settings ie; 9mm to 1.2mm close to each other than you aren't trying to wrangle two combined strips from opposing ends of the pack.
Doing this still allows you to adjust the ignition points on your delco holden / morris lucas distrbutor or set the tappets if you are a car enthusiast. :lol: h34r:


----------



## dicko (27/1/16)

Chridech said:


> I emailed Frank at MashMaster for some advice about how to measure the mill gap and what he would recommend as a starting point for an ideal crush. 0.6mm seems pretty narrow but I guess the fluted rollers are completely different to the knurled rollers. I was very impressed with the detail in his reply. I should stress that Mashmaster is not recommending a specific mill gap, rather each Brewer needs to find the correct crush that suits the grain and set up they are using. Thanks Mashmaster.
> 
> Here is the reply:
> 
> ...


is there any chance of seeing...."the link below"


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/1/16)

What Frank basically said was

"Adjust it until you get your desired crush "


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## Chridech (27/1/16)

dicko said:


> is there any chance of seeing...."the link below"


This was the only attachment in the email.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2014/How%20Good%20Is%20Your%20Grist.pdf


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What Frank basically said was
> 
> "Adjust it until you get your desired crush "


yep, dead right,

the mill gap for a crush on some of these single vessel systems (BM GF etc) varies greatly from a BIAB or a 3V.

Unfortunately, a lot of information comes from the USA where some contributors are still only quoting results from 3V.

Just do it until it is the best result you can get..


----------



## dicko (27/1/16)

Chridech said:


> This was the only attachment in the email.
> 
> https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/presentations/pdf/2014/How%20Good%20Is%20Your%20Grist.pdf


Thanks for providing the link mate....


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## nosco (27/1/16)

Ze germans have already done it. See previous post in this thread from Mardoo. Post No.?


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/1/16)

dicko said:


> What I have done with my Feeler Gauges is take the most expected combinations of strips of gauge for a grain mill setting and place them in reasonably useable order on the centre screw and nut of the set.
> In this way, if you have combined the most common mill gap settings ie; 9mm to 1.2mm close to each other than you aren't trying to wrangle two combined strips from opposing ends of the pack.
> Doing this still allows you to adjust the ignition points on your delco holden / morris lucas distrbutor or set the tappets if you are a car enthusiast. :lol: h34r:


Lucky for me I just need a 015" feeler gauge to do the whole car


----------



## bradsbrew (27/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Lucky for me I just need a 015" feeler gauge to do the whole car


Different to the feeler gauge used when the handbrake fails at the shops?


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (27/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Different to the feeler gauge used when the handbrake fails at the shops?


What handbrake


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## dicko (27/1/16)

Mardoo said:


> Yep, that's what they call sharp-to-sharp, amongst the other possible orientations in mills. The Wolf mills site used to have some explanation of the different types.
> 
> Edit: Here it is. Some say it's the best orientation. Some don't.
> 
> http://www.wolfengineering.com.au/grinding_and_fluting.html





nosco said:


> Ze germans have already done it. See previous post in this thread from Mardoo. Post No.?


Yes i had a look at that....if you wanted sharp to sharp on a Minimill you would have to fit the driven gear on the driven roller on the other end of the roller shaft and then assemble it in the normal way.
We never know, someone may want to try it and report the results.

Most people just but a mill to crack their grain as conveniently as it can be.


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## dicko (27/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Different to the feeler gauge used when the handbrake fails at the shops?


When my "handbrake' fails at the shops I usually deal with it with a rubber hose...that usually smartens 'em up. :lol: :lol: h34r:


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## butisitart (27/1/16)

woo hoo!

CmdrRyekr's hopper shot is a doozy. you could use that for delivering concrete. 
pretty impressive


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## huez (27/1/16)

dicko said:


> Thanks for providing the link mate....


This is actually the rock bottom article frank is referring to, i got a similar email and he attached the wrong link

http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/ImprovingBrewhouseEfficiency-Havig.pdf


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## Chridech (27/1/16)

huez said:


> This is actually the rock bottom article frank is referring to, i got a similar email and he attached the wrong link
> 
> http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/ImprovingBrewhouseEfficiency-Havig.pdf


Thanks huez this makes sense now


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## Mardoo (27/1/16)

The increase referenced in the Rockbottom presentation is similar to what I was seeing mentioned on the German forums - coarser grind giving an efficiency boost from low 80's to high 80's. Not huge, but noticeable. Then there was the guy who sieved out all his hulls for his lager mashes, re-adding them just before lauter (of course needing to re-set the bed). I'll be interested to see what people's experiences are.


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## Rocker1986 (27/1/16)

I've noticed an increase in efficiency since moving to a coarser grind (BIAB setup). Yesterday's brew day was the first with the replacement roller on the mill and achieved my best efficiency for quite a while, coming in at 76.6%. With the old roller and a finer grind it was more in the high 60s. Quite happy about this. :lol:


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## dicko (29/1/16)

Ok, so having a mill with new fluted rollers got the better of me this morning so I decided to do another brew today to test it out.

I set the mill at 40 thou or 1.016mm with a feeler guage and cracked the grain.

I doughed in and I must say that this has been the easiest dough in that I have done in 14 years of AG brewing.
No dough balls at all. I would say due to the fact that there is bugger all flour in the crush.
I just tip the grain into the liquer and gave it a stir.
With the mash completed I took a sg reading and with my efficiency set at 77% i got 79%
I was not surprised with this as, according to Beersmith my pre boil gravity is normally 1% above what The software says it will be.

I did the normal 80 minute boil and achieved exactly 77% at the end of the boil. This is very close to how my results pan out with the old knurled rollers. All my volumes were spot on.

Did I mention that there were no dough balls when doughing in 

I will make fine adjustments to the gap over the next half a dozen brews and gain an average....I have had my efficiency set to 77% for my software but quite often get 78% or sometimes even a tad higher on occasions.
The grist I did today had no wheat in it so I feel I need to crush some wheat and have a look at the result.
All in all for a new set of entirely different rollers in the mill I was quite happy with the result.

Oh, by the way, during dough in there was not a dough ball in sight. 

I should also add that my equipment is a 20 litre Braumeister


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## Liam_snorkel (29/1/16)

Nice one dicko.


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## Batz (29/1/16)

Well it does sound like the past problems have been solved, now just the test of time I guess. When my old Valley Mill packs it in I'll go a Mashmaster.
Did you have any problem with dough balls Dicko? :lol:


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## dicko (29/1/16)

Batz said:


> Well it does sound like the past problems have been solved, now just the test of time I guess. When my old Valley Mill packs it in I'll go a Mashmaster.
> Did you have any problem with dough balls Dicko? :lol:


After 12 pages on the subject I am sure if anyone has any trouble you will hear about it on here.

You know, I could not believe how easy the dough in became.....not a dough ball in site.


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## SBOB (29/1/16)

dicko said:


> You know, I could not believe how easy the dough in became.....not a dough ball in site.


so, in summary, just to be clear...could you... in your own words... let us know whether there was any issue with dough balls during the dough in stages?


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## bradsbrew (29/1/16)

What's a doughball?













Ooops sorry wrong thread.


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## seamad (29/1/16)

i make pizza with mine


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## Parks (29/1/16)

seamad said:


> i make pizza with mine


I lift mine up to wee.


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## Feldon (29/1/16)

huez said:


> This is actually the rock bottom article frank is referring to, i got a similar email and he attached the wrong link
> 
> http://www.craftbrewersconference.com/wp-content/uploads/ImprovingBrewhouseEfficiency-Havig.pdf


Some of this 2014 presentation seems to be based on an earlier 2007 presentation by Bob Hansen of Briess Malts in the US called 'Practical Milling for the Craftbrewer'. For those interested a Powerpoint is available via a link on this web page: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Malting101/Technical_Presentations.htm Note that the speaking notes are available below each slide. (OT, several of the other brewing topics on this page might also be of interest).

Hansen's presentation is referenced in a more explanatory paper 'Mills and Milling' by the appropriately named Dave Miller (author of _Brew Like a Pro_) which is available here: http://brewlikeapro.net/maltmilling.html Note that the last section deals briefly with Wet Milling. (OT, again several of his other articles might be of interest also).


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## Rocker1986 (29/1/16)

Nice one Dicko, that mirrors my experience with the one knurled/one fluted roller set up. Definitely a lot less flour in the crush, and .... no dough balls. :lol: I'll probably leave the gap setting where it is for now, but yes definitely making brew days a lot more enjoyable firstly not taking an hour to mill the grains and secondly getting back to my old efficiency numbers again.


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## SBOB (29/1/16)

Rocker1986 said:


> Definitely a lot less flour in the crush, and .... no dough balls. :lol:


why hasn't anyone mentioned this 'no dough balls' benefit earlier?


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## Ducatiboy stu (29/1/16)

Even with high flour using 3:1 water I didnt notice any dough balls. But then again I didnt dump all the grain in, just gently stirred the grains in to make a nice mash


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## dicko (29/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Even with high flour using 3:1 water I didnt notice any dough balls. But then again I didnt dump all the grain in, just gently stirred the grains in to make a nice mash


Yes, I have always had some flour and I have always done a similar dough in procedure to your method.
I generally tip approx 1 kilo at a time and then stir until I am sure I have broken the balls. I think there was a movie which featured a ball buster.  she was a larger than average woman from memory. 
I have found a potato masher good for this also. Thanks spog.....
With my new rollers there was significantly less flour...even less than the Crankenstein 3 roller mill that the new Mashmaster mini mill replaced.
In one of the links quoted above re crush, it was noted that even the Crankenstein two roller produce significantly less flour than other similar mills. I have noticed that my Crank 3 roller did not have the flour that the Mashmaster did.

Now in defence of the Mashmaster mini mill, I bought the mill obviously at the time when the rollers were of less than good quality and when Frank sent me two new rollers they only worked for one or two cracks of around five kilos and then performed the way that my original rollers did. Great service but I was still "snookered"

Because I quite often crack grains for other brewers I had my Mashmaster mini mill rollers re knurled at a local machine shop and the crack was great, however lots of flour was the result.

I think from memory you Stu, have a mill with large diameter rollers and this is probably why you get less flour generally.

Imo this has been a great learning curve for me with grain mills with both, roller size and flute V knurl.
Without getting too carried away with my one result, I am quite happy with the first effort with these new rollers.


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## dicko (29/1/16)

I might add as well since owning a BM my water to grist ratio is a lot higher than what it was on my 3v system but that did not help the dough ball problem. I dough in generally with 25 litres for a grist of between 3.5 and 6 kilos.

By even the mentioning of dough balls I think many of us brewers on here using any of the basic proprietory grain mills just dealt with dough balls by carefully stirring and ensuring that the balls were broken. It would only be brewers using higher quality mills and some privately manufactured larger diameter roller mills that may not have experienced this phenomena.


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## TidalPete (29/1/16)

> Quote
> What's a doughball?



No matter what mill or variation off, you choose to use, you will *NEVER* get doughballs if you underlet.


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## bradsbrew (29/1/16)

TidalPete said:


> No matter what mill or variation off, you choose to use, you will *NEVER* get doughballs if you underlet.


Wow Pete, did you plant a hidden camera last time you were here?
Today i milled directly into my malt pipe then placed it into the Grainfather so as to underlet, it worked an absolute treat.
And here is a pic of the only flour that made it through the bottom plate.


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## dicko (29/1/16)

TidalPete said:


> No matter what mill or variation off, you choose to use, you will *NEVER* get doughballs if you underlet.


Wow Pete, haven't seen you for ages.

Got to totally agree. When I had 3 v I almost always underlet without too many problems.
The slower the better, within reason.

I wonder if I can work out how to underlet with a BM, I may try the suggested method from Brad


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## dicko (29/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Wow Pete, did you plant a hidden camera last time you were here?
> Today i milled directly into my malt pipe then placed it into the Grainfather so as to underlet, it worked an absolute treat.
> And here is a pic of the only flour that made it through the bottom plate.


Your pic looks like brick pavers to me Brad. i guess that means that no flour made it through the bottom plate?

I will try your method next time I brew with the BM.

How slowly (or quickly) did you lower the malt pipe??


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## bradsbrew (29/1/16)

dicko said:


> Your pic looks like brick pavers to me Brad. i guess that means that no flour made it through the bottom plate?
> I will try your method next time I brew with the BM.
> How slowly (or quickly) did you lower the malt pipe??


There is a faint outline of flour.
Slowly lowered it Dicko maybe 20 seconds. I then just let it absorb the water, probably took three minutes until there was a layer of water on top, i then gave it a good mix, put the top plate on and then the pump.


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## MastersBrewery (29/1/16)

dicko said:


> Ok, so having a mill with new fluted rollers got the better of me this morning so I decided to do another brew today to test it out.
> 
> I set the mill at 40 thou or 1.016mm with a feeler guage and cracked the grain.
> 
> ...


How was the recirc? Are you confident enough yet to push to 6kg in the mp? If you do let us know how you go.


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## dicko (29/1/16)

bradsbrew said:


> There is a faint outline of flour.
> Slowly lowered it Dicko maybe 20 seconds. I then just let it absorb the water, probably took three minutes until there was a layer of water on top, i then gave it a good mix, put the top plate on and then the pump.


Thanks Brad, I will work on it for the BM.


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## dicko (29/1/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> How was the recirc? Are you confident enough yet to push to 6kg in the mp? If you do let us know how you go.


The recirculation was, from my observation a lot better flow with the new crush and the wort seemed to clear a lot quicker than it was with the old crush.
At the end of the mash the wort in the gravity test tube was extremely clear. It was an Irish Red Ale that I was brewing and I hope the finished beer comes out the same colour that I saw in the test tube.

I am now 5 beers ahead of my fermentation schedule with 5 cubes awaiting ferment.
I like to do a dopplebock a couple of times a year which I really load the malt pipe with grain. If not I owe myself an IPA which would also be great for a big test.
Either way I will report on the result of loading up the malt pipe.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

dicko said:


> I think from memory you Stu, have a mill with large diameter rollers and this is probably why you get less flour generally.


50mm knurled stainless


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## S.E (30/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> 50mm knurled stainless


Any chance of a photo of your rollers? I’m interested to see how the knurling compares to the MM. Is your mill geared?


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)




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## S.E (30/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> mill 1.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, they don’t look much different to the MM. I was expecting the knurling to be coarser. The tip look a little flat and blunt also and that seems to be when the problems start with the MM knurled rollers.

Do they pull dry grain through ok or do you wet it first every time?


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## Mardoo (30/1/16)

The larger the roller the less the knurling matters. It has to do with the angle with which the corns approach the gap. Small roller, smaller angle. Large roller, larger angle. Large enough rollers and you don't even need knurling or fluting, as on many professional mills.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

As it has a lazy 2nd roller I jam a few grains in between the rollers before filling the hopper. Once the 2nd roller is spinning it mills no probs.

Does 5kg in 1min @~180rpm

I am of the opinion that you want flats on the knurl as sharp points puncture the husks

The roller have done a lot of work and the knurl hasnt changed at all. Gap is set at 0.9mm normally and I good s nice amount of flour


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

Mardoo said:


> The larger the roller the less the knurling matters. It has to do with the angle with which the corns approach the gap. Small roller, smaller angle. Large roller, larger angle. Large enough rollers and you don't even need knurling or fluting, as on many professional mills.


Yep

Someone on here made concrete roller about 300mm dia. Was dead smooth and worked very well form memory


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## dicko (30/1/16)

There was one on here many years ago made from wood.
I dont know the size of the rollers but they were quite large and they were smooth.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

Yeah, I remember that one too...made form hardwood


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## S.E (30/1/16)

Mardoo said:


> The larger the roller the less the knurling matters. It has to do with the angle with which the corns approach the gap. Small roller, smaller angle. Large roller, larger angle. Large enough rollers and you don't even need knurling or fluting, as on many professional mills.


I realise that but I would be surprised if Stu’s 50mm rollers would make such a difference compared to MM 38mm rollers.

300mm would be a different matter.

I still have the gears removed from my MM and have just put a few handfuls of wet grain through it and it pulls through no problem, in fact far better than dry grain with the gears fitted.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

Sometime the lazy roller will grab and spin without putting a few grains in, but sometimes it doesnt, and is a real PITA when it doesnt


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## S.E (30/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Sometime the lazy roller will grab and spin without putting a few grains in, but sometimes it doesnt, and is a real PITA when it doesnt


Just tried your trick jamming a few grains in the rollers first and it does indeed pull dry grain through once the lazy roller starts turning. What’s more is it felt far more solid with no slipping than it usually does with the geared rollers.

I’m off out now but I’m going to let the rollers dry out and try again later with a larger quantity of dry grain.


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## Liam_snorkel (30/1/16)

dicko said:


> There was one on here many years ago made from wood.
> I dont know the size of the rollers but they were quite large and they were smooth.





Ducatiboy stu said:


> Yeah, I remember that one too...made form hardwood


I think I know who that was. I'll have a dig around
EDIT: here we go:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/65243-Drill-Press-Driven-Mill


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## dicko (30/1/16)

Thats a beauty Liam, great find.

I recon that there was another wooden roller mill even older than that post...from memory it was similar in size and I was not sure whether it was geared or it maybe had a rubber ring on the drive roller to turn the passive roller.


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## dicko (30/1/16)

Crankenstein have a good idea to ensure the roller drives.

They machine a series of grooves or shallow flutes on the end of each roller.
This grabs some uncrushed grain and drags it through the roller rather than relying on the knurl.

I will grab some rollers and take a pic....stand by


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## dicko (30/1/16)

Here it is,


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## Liam_snorkel (30/1/16)

dicko said:


> Thats a beauty Liam, great find.
> 
> I recon that there was another wooden roller mill even older than that post...from memory it was similar in size and I was not sure whether it was geared or it maybe had a rubber ring on the drive roller to turn the passive roller.


Same bloke - post #66 in this thread:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/47070-A-Mill-That-Anybody-Could-Make


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## dicko (30/1/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Same bloke - post #66 in this thread:
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/47070-A-Mill-That-Anybody-Could-Make


Yep, that was the one i was thinking of...he is a clever bloke that Matho :super:

and yes Kymba had the o rings for a drive....I was just confusing the two builds


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

Concrete rollers

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=119521


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## Feldon (30/1/16)

dicko said:


> Thats a beauty Liam, great find.
> 
> I recon that there was another wooden roller mill even older than that post...from memory it was similar in size and I was not sure whether it was geared or it maybe had a rubber ring on the drive roller to turn the passive roller.


It might be this thread from 2004? AHB member Sosman in Melbourne made a wooden roller mill, but the pics are no longer available on the AHB web page, and the links to his own web pages are no longer active (and Sosman hasn't logged on to AHB for five years).

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/3596-grain-crush/page-2

However, several years ago I was looking a website by a Melbourne brewer (Sosman?) who had built a wooden roller mill. The website is now dead but I saved a copy of the webpage to my hard drive, so here a few pics from the web page to show how he went about building it:


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## dicko (30/1/16)

Feldon said:


> It might be this thread from 2004? AHB member Sosman in Melbourne made a wooden roller mill, but the pics are no longer available on the AHB web page, and the links to his own web pages are no longer active (and Sosman hasn't logged on to AHB for five years).
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/3596-grain-crush/page-2
> 
> ...


i had forgotten about that one..another great build


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## Liam_snorkel (30/1/16)

Awesome!


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## Jack of all biers (30/1/16)

Great thread. Got me thinking. Haven't ever had a mill myself and rely on the HBS, but....

From this thread I get the impression that the Mash Master fluted mill seems to get the initial tick of approval from all who've tried it (better crush with less flour and more intact husks). At $290 plus postage seems good buy.

Mardo, I think referred to German forums and linked in the Matt Mill http://www.braufox.com.au/index.php/en-AU/shop-accessories/product/10-matt-mill-70mm/lang-en-AU able to be bought in Aus for $398.50 plus postage.

Now come next christmas I will be travelling to the Fatherland and have access to a German address that the Matt Mill manufacturer will send direct, which will cost me about AUD $264 (on current currency conversion) including postage to my in-laws. http://www.hobbybrauerversand.de/Malt-Mill-MattMill-Kompakt (website in english so have a look, but they only post to Germany or Austria. They do have distributors in other parts of the world like Braufox in Aus)

Their description of the Matt Mill is;

handy and inexpensive, proven MattMill quality
hardened and sharpness (fräsgerändelte) compact rolls
Ø70mm, 50mm long
unique in the world: "spelzenschonende" texture
hand made in Germany with German quality components exclusively
permanently reliable collection without synchronization
infinitely adjustable 0 to approx. 2 mm by eccentrics
massive, closed casing made of aluminum and stainless steel: safe, no experiments, no dust
durable and maintenance-free
diverse, easy montage options e. g. clamped on a table edge
many opportunities for individual hopper, large-volume hopper can be reordered
Service of the machine "Bauermeister" within a few days with shipping service
Drive also available with optional crank or as standard 6 mm hexagonal bit
Versatile and inexpensive hopper options: from the PET beverage bottle to large volume funnel.

Power: up to 3 kg best grist per minute, with crank about 1-2kg/min (depending on fitness) (approx. 11gr./revolutions)
Questions: 

Does anyone have a Matt Mill and are able to share their experience? (milling issues, issues with parts or service, grain crush, lauter performance of crush etc)
Anyone able to compare the Matt Mill 70mm mill and the Fluted Mash Master 38 mm mill? (I know this is asking alot as the fluted is relatively new)
Should I wait for christmas (ie 2017 before I use it) to save $30-$50 and get that 'hand made in Germany' quality? or is the crush of the Fluted Mash Master supercede all others?
Or are there better options out there for a similar price range?

EDIT - Figured out how to attach pictures at last!

Fluted 

Vs larger mill rollers 



2nd EDIT - fixed failures in attaching images and spelling.


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## dicko (30/1/16)

Jack of all biers said:


> Malzmuehle-MattMill-Kompakt_b2.jpgGreat thread. Got me thinking. Haven't ever had a mill myself and rely on the HBS, but....
> 
> From this thread I get the impression that the Mash Master fluted mill seems to get the initial tick of approval from all who've tried it (better crush with less four and more intact husks). At $290 plus postage seems good buy.
> 
> ...


After the absolutely excellent service from Mashmaster as refered in most of these 14 pages in this topic, I wouldn't go past one.
Buying overseas is great until you have a problem and need assistance.

I did a hit on just one of the site sponsors at the top and found their new mashmaster mill to be $279.00 
I would imagine most of the sponsors will be around that price.
Full Pint list their mill at $260 so there ya go...

cheers


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

They are not that hard to make . Take an afternoon at most

The hardest bit is getting the rollers made, but any decent machine/engineering shop could knock them up pretty quick, and you dont need stainless, but it is nice to have.

Bearings are about $20-30 a set of 4

Timber is pretty cheap if you want to go wooden frame, but you will need a hole saw and some basic tools.

Of course it is easier to go " **** it...I will just buy one "... but its not the same as building one


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## Feldon (30/1/16)

Another wooden roller mill build from way back in 1999 :

http://brewery.org/brewery/library/woodmill.html

Potentially a much simpler build as it uses a single, fluted roller which works the grain against a brass crush plate.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/1/16)

The only prob I can see with that design is that it with grind rather than crush the grain


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## Mardoo (30/1/16)

Consider me inspired. Wooden rollers never once occurred to me.


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## S.E (31/1/16)

Test #2 MashMaster Mini with the gears removed.

This time I jammed a few grains in the rollers to get the non driven roller turning. It pulled 1 kilo of dry grain through in 33 seconds (as fast as my cordless would turn it).

Usually when I mill with the gears in place I need to go very slowly with the drill or I can feel the rollers slipping and not pulling the grain through and it takes about 20 minutes to mill 10 kilo.

It would seem that the gears are contributing to problem somehow. Perhaps the gears are causing the rollers to turn at slightly different speeds and working against each other and the slower roller is acting as a break?


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## Mr B (31/1/16)

I fitted a replacement fluted driven roller and gave it a run today.

Mill is eeexcelent. Took about 5 mins tro do approx 12 kilos.

I Biab and my efficiency took a 10% drop, so might have had it a bit wide. Very little flour compared with the rooted knurled rollers. Interestingly, the grain absorbed about 5l more than normal (50l batch/68l strike)


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## CmdrRyekr (31/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> The hardest bit is getting the rollers made, but any decent machine/engineering shop could knock them up pretty quick, and you dont need stainless, but it is nice to have.


If my recent experience with getting small jobs done at machining shops is any indication - I'd safely say you've never had anything done!


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## Ducatiboy stu (31/1/16)

CmdrRyekr said:


> If my recent experience with getting small jobs done at machining shops is any indication - I'd safely say you've never had anything done!


I have had all sorts of weird and wonderful things made at machine shops


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## Rocker1986 (31/1/16)

Mr B said:


> I Biab and my efficiency took a 10% drop, so might have had it a bit wide. Very little flour compared with the rooted knurled rollers. Interestingly, the grain absorbed about 5l more than normal (50l batch/68l strike)


I've noticed the opposite, my efficiency has gone up since moving to a coarser crush and Tuesday's brew day was the best yet, first go with the replacement fluted roller too.


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## seamad (31/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I have had all sorts of weird and wonderful things made at machine shops


only because you own a morry


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## CmdrRyekr (31/1/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I have had all sorts of weird and wonderful things made at machine shops


Well if you can suggest a workshop with a CNC that doesn't charge $600 for a single, simple job; that would be ace.


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## Camo6 (1/2/16)

CmdrRyekr said:


> Well if you can suggest a workshop with a CNC that doesn't charge $600 for a single, simple job; that would be ace.


It's not what you know but who you know certainly helps in this instance.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/2/16)

CmdrRyekr said:


> Well if you can suggest a workshop with a CNC that doesn't charge $600 for a single, simple job; that would be ace.


You dont always need a CNC machine...

Most jobs can be done with a lathe, mill and a bloke who knows what he is doing


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## CmdrRyekr (1/2/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You dont always need a CNC machine...
> 
> Most jobs can be done with a lathe, mill and a bloke who knows what he is doing


This job consists of milling a concave radius into an aluminium block. I guess it could be done manually, but I wouldn't like to be the one doing it


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## nosco (1/2/16)

I contacted MM last Wednesday,with the email on the website, and got my replacement roller today :beerbang: along with a sheet of 240 and 180 W&D paper. Looks better quality than the cheap shit I buy too. Cant complain with that. I wasnt for awhile there but Im very happy I paid the extra for a MM mill now. Sounds like the top of the line atm (except for that German number).


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## Jack of all biers (1/2/16)

nosco said:


> Im very happy I paid the extra for a MM mill now. Sounds like the top of the line atm (except for that German number).


What makes you think the German one (I assume you mean the Matt Mill) is better? I really am interested to know if one is better quality or produces a better crush. Call me paranoid, but when the Mash Master has some defect type issues (given the topic of this thread) it makes me reluctant to fork out money for the latest update that is yet to be proven better than one that will cost me the same (especially if it is better).

EDIT - Oh and thanks to Stu and co for the feedback about building your own. I'm not sure that I would be capable to do so for much cheaper than purchasing a ready made example with all the bells and whistles (ie adjustable and not frustrating when it does do what I want it to do). Built my own mash manifold and was proud, but a mill that will do the job. I'm probably not up to it).


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## Mardoo (1/2/16)

In truth, we know SFA about the German MattMill. Sure, I've read a lot from the mfr and users, but few people in Oz have one. However I have contact info for a bloke who just bought one (via the Oz distributor) and I hope to have a look before too long. 

Simply based on customer service and history I'm tending towards the Mashmaster. I may be the guy to go ahead and take one for the team and go the MattMill, but then I've spent plenty of time in my life standing around with my dick in my hand, and brewing is not one place I wish to do so.


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## nosco (1/2/16)

Jack of all biers said:


> What makes you think the German one (I assume you mean the Matt Mill) is better?


It looks cool, its German and ive been drinking IIPA's. Im also heavily under qualified to be making statements like that (figures. Phfft).


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## Jack of all biers (2/2/16)

Mardoo said:


> In truth, we know SFA about the German MattMill. Sure, I've read a lot from the mfr and users, but few people in Oz have one. However I have contact info for a bloke who just bought one (via the Oz distributor) and I hope to have a look before too long.
> 
> Simply based on customer service and history I'm tending towards the Mashmaster. I may be the guy to go ahead and take one for the team and go the MattMill, but then I've spent plenty of time in my life standing around with my dick in my hand, and brewing is not one place I wish to do so.


I'm also leaning towards the Mashmaster at the moment, but I have patience and figure I've been happy with the HBS crushes I've had for the last 11 years so 1 more can't hurt me. Definately let us know if you get to see a Matt mill in action.


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## Crusty (2/2/16)

I received a replacement roller yesterday & it took some time to sand down the copper sleeve on the adjustment knob but it's operational. Like the results from earlier posts, very little flour with a gap of approx 1.0mm to 1.1mm. The crush though was better than ever before. The gripping power of that fluted roller on the grain was phenomenal & the speed that it chewed through a 1kg grain test blew me away. A massive thumbs up from me & a huge thanks to Francis for getting me back in business.


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## Stunts (4/2/16)

Got my self one of these mills should get it set up this week. Just rhought I would share a pic of the sweet old school scales I dug up from down the back to sit next to it


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## CmdrRyekr (4/2/16)

Stunts said:


> Got my self one of these mills should get it set up this week. Just rhought I would share a pic of the sweet old school scales I dug up from down the back to sit next to it


I'm surprised that scale didn't get eaten by a Stegosaurus!


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## S.E (4/2/16)

CmdrRyekr said:


> I'm surprised that scale didn't get eaten by a Stegosaurus!


I was having happy nostalgic childhood memories of toffy being weighed out in a sweet shop in Newcastle upon tyne till I scrolled down and read your post. :blink:


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## Stunts (4/2/16)

Haha found a cash register that is about the same vintage also. Grandfathers that hord everything come in handy eventually


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## butisitart (5/2/16)

just did my first run with the fluteds. firstly - this is my first mill, so i can't compare it to anything. and i've got no experience.
i fed grain through, a handful at a time, until i found a good consistency - (2 qld drivers licences + 1.5 notches wide) on fawcett pearl. whatever that means, cos i don't have feeler guages. then i sent 5kg through on seriously slow speed. almost no flour, but even the smaller grains were nicely cracked.
come the mash, and it was so clear i thought i'd blown it. my gf barely raised a sweat over the top mesh, and it looked pretty watery compared to my shop milled.
45mins into mash @68, colour started to come on and a touch of foam, but it never got to the overflow pipe.
sparge made me really concerned cos it went through as if there was no grain under it - 13L in under a minute.
currently boiling with great colour, so hopefully not the disaster i thought it might have been. i thought maybe too coarse, though i will narrow a little next time just to see.
mill looks like a real winner, even if i reserve my opinion on the first attempt.
ah - now i can smell it from 2 rooms away and it smells gooooood.
my only problem is spending all that money for only 28secs of fun for the week. maybe i can mill the neighbour's house. the bastards will never find it again.
i'll update with the gravities when they come in, but it seems better than my most hopeful expectations


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## bradsbrew (5/2/16)

butisitart said:


> my only problem is spending all that money for only 28secs of fun for the week. maybe i can mill the neighbour's house. the bastards will never find it again.


After all the times I have not brewed over the past years or so because I was dreading milling the grain, I am now just the opposite I have found renewed energy for the hobby. Problem is I can't brew because I used all my grain and wont get any more until we move in a couple of weeks. Even went to the local brew shop and grabbed 5kg so I could mill and brew last Friday.

Also now looking at building a new 3V set up, 120L output, to complement the GF. Milling 25kg at a time will put it to the test.

Cheers


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## TidalPete (5/2/16)

Probably off-topic but good to hear you're going back to 3/4 vessel brewing bradsbrew. 

Only way I'll ever part with my HERMS setup is when they pry it away from my cold dead hands.
If my 3-roller Cranker ever karks it perhaps I'll get one of those new (fluted) MashMasters. They are sounding good ATM.

I've been told I don't post enough on AHB these days so here's my week's contribution. B)


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## Liam_snorkel (5/2/16)

G'day Pete! :beer:


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## TidalPete (5/2/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Liam_snorkel, on 05 Feb 2016 - 4:40 PM, said:
> 
> G'day Pete! :beer:


G'day Liam. :beer:
Do you realise I've just used up next week's contribution to the forum?


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## RdeVjun (5/2/16)

G'day Pete! Ok, so how's the week after looking then??!


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## Camo6 (5/2/16)

Best to double your quota Pete, incase some disappear...


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## TidalPete (5/2/16)

Camo6 said:


> Camo6, on 05 Feb 2016 - 4:53 PM, said:
> 
> Best to double your quota Pete, incase some disappear...


Your arse-licking skills will undoubtedly earn you lots & lots of brownie :lol: points cumo6.


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## Camo6 (5/2/16)

I do love brownies!


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## MastersBrewery (5/2/16)

Camo6 said:


> I do love brownies!


 specially with stout


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## butisitart (5/2/16)

first batch on the fluted finished with perfect colour (i were worried it was going to be devoid of anything except water). og 1.037 when i were expecting 1.045 plus, so maybe grain not cracked enough. i utterly impressed with the mill though and how much control you get.


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## Maheel (5/2/16)

how do i know if my mini needs the roller ?

can one just be bought to transform it into this "better mill"?

i am rebuilding my drive / stand system so maybe should upgrade ?


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## bradsbrew (5/2/16)

Maheel said:


> how do i know if my mini needs the roller ?
> 
> can one just be bought to transform it into this "better mill"?
> 
> i am rebuilding my drive / stand system so maybe should upgrade ?


If its taking more than 10 minutes to mill 5kg?
Although mine was more like an hour.
Flick Franc an email, you never know.


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## Maheel (5/2/16)

Thanks BBrew

once i get it up and running again i will do some tests

kind of happy to buy the roller as i reckon it's a great mill either way and well worth supporting the local supplier


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## bradsbrew (5/2/16)

Maheel said:


> Thanks BBrew
> 
> once i get it up and running again i will do some tests
> 
> kind of happy to buy the roller as i reckon it's a great mill either way and well worth supporting the local supplier


Yeah, I only had the one roller replaced. I am almost tempted to see how much it would cost to buy the long roller. Will see how the blended rollers really perform once i can get back to brewing.


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## Zorco (6/2/16)

Maheel said:


> Thanks BBrew
> 
> once i get it up and running again i will do some tests
> 
> kind of happy to buy the roller as i reckon it's a great mill either way and well worth supporting the local supplier


like bradsbrew I had only a single flute replaced and this arvo I swapped it into my mill. No shaft size issues whatsoever! Frank issued me with a couple of sheets of textbook abrasion paper due to his spot on awareness of other people's experiences. Considering these sheets are-a spare now I'll need to find some hardwood, BMWs or small children to rub a few microns off!

Now the knurled / fluted mill. It is friggin' SKOOKUM! Holy schmacko's it is alive again. menacing, exigent, violent. My DC/DC power supply can drive full power into any volt/amp combo. My mini mill is driven by an awesome Australian made wheelchair motor with worm drive gearbox and therefore has beefcake by the truck load. Setting it at 1 rev every 15 seconds, my yearning for slow mo sugar polymer extrication was duly satiated.

Absolutely brilliant Frank. The way the flute brutalities the grain into military order has a noticeable torque need which my drive must and does fulfill. I'm actually keen on investigating the possible advantages of the flute / knurled combination. My gut instinct is that I prefer this matchup. Using the ideal roller spacing I have excellent husk integrity and I hypothesize the knurling is giving the luscious white maltose/ maltotriose/ glucose core a little touchup without pulverising into flour.

With a flute flute combo I suspect it bites flute onto smooth and then smooth onto flute thus oscillating the crush. My combo has each roller with its own role...

Can do video for those with the curious minds!


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## bradsbrew (6/2/16)

Just tasting the results of last weeks trial run of the new roller.
100% JW ALE, the mysery hops for bittering and a handful of styrians late.

Edit: not wey pils.


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## Liam_snorkel (6/2/16)

first mash-in this afternoon with the new rollers. no dough balls. mash eff at 85% which is ballpark for this grain bill (6.5kg) before I started having issues with the old ones. you bloody ripper!


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## Mr B (6/2/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Just tasting the results of last weeks trial run of the new roller.
> 100% wey pils, the mysery hops for bittering and a handful of styrians late.


How did you get it so clear so quick?

Is it finished fermenting?


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## bradsbrew (6/2/16)

Mr B said:


> How did you get it so clear so quick?
> 
> Is it finished fermenting?


Brewed last Friday, pitched with around 250 to 300ml slurry on saturday. Fermented for 6 days at 18 then 1 day at 22 then crashed at minus 1 overnight. Filtered into keg this arvo. Gave it a 3/4 Ross method for fast carb. Should be spot on for carb tomorrow. 

Cheers


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## Mr B (6/2/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Brewed last Friday, pitched with around 250 to 300ml slurry on saturday. Fermented for 6 days at 18 then 1 day at 22 then crashed at minus 1 overnight. Filtered into keg this arvo. Gave it a 3/4 Ross method for fast carb. Should be spot on for carb tomorrow.
> 
> Cheers


Fair enough, thanks and nice work


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## Markbeer (22/2/16)

I swapped my roller over to the fluted and it is milling very very quickly and I didn't even think my other one was that worn.

I had to spend a fair bit of time sanding the spindles so they would fit.

Should be able to mill 12kg in a few minutes now.

Thanks Frank.


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## Mardoo (22/2/16)

Any more reports on sparge, efficiency, etc? Although I think I'm already sold on the new Mashmaster.


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## Liam_snorkel (22/2/16)

I've brewed 3 times with the new rollers now - efficiency is the same as before, I BIAB so no comment RE sparge - the only noticeable difference has been NO dough balls when mashing in.


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## Wimmig (22/2/16)

Hmmm I've got one of these units with knurling, makes me edgy :/


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## Zorco (22/2/16)

Weekend before last: English Barleywine - Pre Boil 1.100 First Runnings, 1.060 Second Runnings for another Overall grain yield 82%. 
Last Weekend : American Barleywine - Pre Boil 1.090 First Runnings, 1.044 Second Runnings for overall grain yield 81%

Super fast crush, not a single chance of a stuck sparge or slow recirc. I'm going to tighten the crush from 0.88mm to 0.80mm and try again.

I need a grant as well; suspect I'll get a better sugar transfer if I'm not sucking the wort with my pump.

+1 no doughballs
total, 50kg of grain in a fortnight.....in a matter of minutes. 

Sounding stoked in my post above was entirely and libation inducedly deliberate.


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## Rocker1986 (22/2/16)

Echoing Liam's comment re the dough balls. I also BIAB, but my efficiency has gone up; this coincided with moving to a coarser crush and keeping the mash agitated through stirring it periodically, which I actually started doing before getting the new fluted roller. Coarser crush was mainly to try to get the grains to go through the thing. Now of course, no issue with that. So I guess the efficiency has remained pretty much the same on my system as well.


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## waggastew (22/2/16)

I had some issues with crush in the last few brews and this thread made me paranoid. My main issue was grain jumping over the rollers and a slow feed. 

Had a play yesterday with gap size and drill speed. Ended up widening the gap and speeding the drill up. I had previously made the gap thinner after reading about 1mm gaps. I had also slowed the drill down as again I thought slow results in less husk damage.

Long story short the crush now seems back to normal (i.e. how it performed when I first bought it), hardly any uncrushed grain and a nice fast feed. 

Just posting to ensure people consider other parameters before assuming it's the knurling. no affil etc


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## BrissyBrew (25/2/16)

Parks said:


> I should have my new rollers by Friday so I will attempt to do a side-by-side with 2 different gaps measuring the time taken and with a photo of the crush.
> 
> I'll do something like this, all with 1kg of the same base malt:
> 
> ...


Just a quick word to advise that you will not get the same crush comparing new rollers and old rollers at the same gap setting, its a little apple and oranges comparing the fluted rollers to the knurled rollers. As for the slightly tapered effect (its super small) it is there to balance out that the rollers do flex under load like all mills and obviously they flex in the centre.


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## BrissyBrew (25/2/16)

S.E said:


> The gears do separate, they are held in place with three small screws. I’ve just tried removing the gear from the non drive roller so my mill now has one driven and one passive roller.
> 
> Really surprised to find that grain won’t pass through the rollers at all now. It just rolls and bounces around on top of them. Had to open the gap up till the grain could almost fall through before it worked.
> 
> Needless to say the crush wasn’t adequate.


Drive both rollers double the applied friction force in the pinch point of the grain and rollers, hence why still put gears on our mills plus you don't have any problems getting the mill to feed with a full hopper. With the two fluted rollers on the new mills the 26 flutes in each roller are synchronised with the mesh of the two flutes (it's why you mill with a gap setting of zero). The mesh of the two flutes vary as the rollers spin around this actually changes the grist distribution by a couple percent in each pan if you change the gearing ratio. Last mill development I tested no gears 1:1 gears and gears with a ratio of 1:1.25, statistically no difference between 1:1 and 1:1.25 ratios although some of the sieves there was a 2-3% shift in distribution and more flour with the 1:25 gear ratio. Zero gears forget it, grist distribution shifts with the gap setting as the differential speed. The new fluted rollers are also more stable across a larger RPM range tested at about 220RPM and 530RPM measured with a digital tachometer. For those thinking we put gears on as a marketing ploy, we have not, gears ensure the mill feeds grain and you don't get slip, almost doubled the friction force applied at the pinch grip squeezing the last drops out of the smaller diameter rollers. The 1:1 ratio on the gears along with the fluted rollers meshing allows for a constant get setting for each revolution and more constant grist distribution regardless of RPM (no gears obviously you get larger speed differentials).


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## BrissyBrew (25/2/16)

If anybody is having issues with their old knurled rollers please email me [email protected] (unfortunately my [email protected] gets about 3000 to 9000 pieces of spam a month, and I am yet to find a spam filter that is as good as the one gmail uses.

A big thank you to all my customers for their time, patience and understanding to resolve the knurled roller problems.


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## Parks (26/2/16)

BB you are a legend. You have come through in spades. Thanks!


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## BrutusB (26/2/16)

BrissyBrew said:


> Drive both rollers double the applied friction force in the pinch point of the grain and rollers, hence why still put gears on our mills plus you don't have any problems getting the mill to feed with a full hopper. With the two fluted rollers on the new mills the 26 flutes in each roller are synchronised with the mesh of the two flutes (it's why you mill with a gap setting of zero). The mesh of the two flutes vary as the rollers spin around this actually changes the grist distribution by a couple percent in each pan if you change the gearing ratio. Last mill development I tested no gears 1:1 gears and gears with a ratio of 1:1.25, statistically no difference between 1:1 and 1:1.25 ratios although some of the sieves there was a 2-3% shift in distribution and more flour with the 1:25 gear ratio. Zero gears forget it, grist distribution shifts with the gap setting as the differential speed. The new fluted rollers are also more stable across a larger RPM range tested at about 220RPM and 530RPM measured with a digital tachometer. For those thinking we put gears on as a marketing ploy, we have not, gears ensure the mill feeds grain and you don't get slip, almost doubled the friction force applied at the pinch grip squeezing the last drops out of the smaller diameter rollers. The 1:1 ratio on the gears along with the fluted rollers meshing allows for a constant get setting for each revolution and more constant grist distribution regardless of RPM (no gears obviously you get larger speed differentials).


Out of interest what's the difference in performance between a Fluted pair and a Fluted/Knurled Mix pair from your test results?


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## dicko (26/2/16)

Hi Brissy Brew,

What would be your recommendations on the gap setting for a nominal crush on the two fluted roller model. ?


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## mckenry (26/2/16)

Frank is going to post me a new roller, which means I'll have one fluted, one knurled roller. Ive seen a few on here have that too and am happy to read they are happy with its performance in this configuration. For those that have replaced a roller, how hard was it? Cant get a visual right now. When do you realise that it needs to be sanded? The email I have says "if its a tight fit" I dont want to bother him with more and more questions so I'm asking here. What / which part is a tight fit, if at all? Can you tell before you have 30 parts of a mill on your bench?


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## Crusty (26/2/16)

mckenry said:


> Frank is going to post me a new roller, which means I'll have one fluted, one knurled roller. Ive seen a few on here have that too and am happy to read they are happy with its performance in this configuration. For those that have replaced a roller, how hard was it? Cant get a visual right now. When do you realise that it needs to be sanded? The email I have says "if its a tight fit" I dont want to bother him with more and more questions so I'm asking here. What / which part is a tight fit, if at all? Can you tell before you have 30 parts of a mill on your bench?


It couldn't be simpler buddy.
I just unscrewed the two adjustment locking pins, 2 bolts on either side to allow the end to pop out. Slide off the gap adjustment knobs. The rollers just slipped out from the other end. The shaft on my new roller wouldn't allow the adjustment knob to seat fully so you just sandpaper the little round copper olive inside your adjustment knob until it seats all the way home. It takes a while so grab a beer. It took me about an hour but by God, the mill is a grain eating machine now.


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## mckenry (26/2/16)

Crusty said:


> It couldn't be simpler buddy.
> I just unscrewed the two adjustment locking pins, 2 bolts on either side to allow the end to pop out. Slide off the gap adjustment knobs. The rollers just slipped out from the other end. The shaft on my new roller wouldn't allow the adjustment knob to seat fully so you just sandpaper the little round copper olive inside your adjustment knob until it seats all the way home. It takes a while so grab a beer. It took me about an hour but by God, the mill is a grain eating machine now.


Perfect reply.


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## Mr B (26/2/16)

Or sand the roller ends - this is what I did, not sure how you did the bush but it must have worked.


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## Rocker1986 (26/2/16)

Yeah I sanded the roller ends too, stuck it in a wood lathe and spun it around in that to do it quicker though. Took about 5 minutes to get them to fit nicely.


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## Liam_snorkel (26/2/16)

I used grinding paste, worked a treat.


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## Bridges (28/2/16)

dicko said:


> Hi Brissy Brew,
> 
> What would be your recommendations on the gap setting for a nominal crush on the two fluted roller model. ?


Yeah this too. I've just finished dodging up my new mill, I think I have some choc malt that's a bit old I'll throw through for it's maiden run, currently set to the width of a metric standard myki card spose its as good as anywhere to start.


----------



## dicko (28/2/16)

Bridges said:


> Yeah this too. I've just finished dodging up my new mill, I think I have some choc malt that's a bit old I'll throw through for it's maiden run, currently set to the width of a metric standard myki card spose its as good as anywhere to start.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes, if I am reading between the lines of a previous post there is no correlation between the gap on knurled compare to fluted rollers.

BrissyBrew where are you....????


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## Bridges (28/2/16)

I run a 20Litre BM and have the dual fluted rollers on my new mill. Is anyone else running similar, so I can work out a starting point for the gap? Cheers!


----------



## dicko (28/2/16)

Bridges said:


> I run a 20Litre BM and have the dual fluted rollers on my new mill. Is anyone else running similar, so I can work out a starting point for the gap? Cheers!


I have closed mine down to 1mm and my mate is getting 77% to 78% MASH EFFICIENCY in his BM 20
I did a brew at around 1.1mm and got 77% on my BM.
I am interested to see if we get an increase with the fluted rollers. 
When I finally brew again I will report back.
I would appreciate BrissyBrews thoughts on this..


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## Chridech (28/2/16)

dicko said:


> I have closed mine down to 1mm and my mate is getting 77% to 78% MASH EFFICIENCY in his BM 20
> I did a brew at around 1.1mm and got 77% on my BM.
> I am interested to see if we get an increase with the fluted rollers.
> When I finally brew again I will report back.
> I would appreciate BrissyBrews thoughts on this..


 I have milled once with my new mill with the (double) fluted rollers. I received some advice from Frank (see post #220 in this thread) regarding crush size and he recommended a 0.6mm gap (as a start) which seemed a tad fine for my set-up (Grandfather - prone to stuck fly sparges with fine grist) so I started at 1.3mm. It came out a little coarse with a noticeable number of intact barley grains, so i put it through again at 1mm. It looked pretty good (freed up the husks, grains cracked) so I went with it. There was a little more flour than I have noted with previous shop milled grists, but i didn't have too much trouble with the sparge. My fly sparges have been almost instant with previous shop grain crushes, but at 1mm gap the sparge took about 15 minutes which is not too bad. 5.6kg of grain giving pre-boil gravity of 1054 for 28L. Brewsmith calculated mash efficiency of 86%. It was a cool mash (63C) after a protein rest as I'm aiming for a dry finish for my Saison. However if i've got it right (i'm a newb) the temperature of the mash will affect fermentability but have little impact on mash efficiency. My mash pH was a tad low (4.9) and I'm not sure what impact that will have. 

So I'm pretty happy with a mill gap of 1mm for the Grainfather, and will use this again next time. Don't know a lot about the BM but I suspect 1mm is going to be in the ballpark. Also don't know what a second pass through the mill does for grain that is already partially cracked?


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## dicko (28/2/16)

Chridech said:


> I have milled once with my new mill with the (double) fluted rollers. I received some advice from Frank (see post #220 in this thread) regarding crush size and he recommended a 0.6mm gap (as a start) which seemed a tad fine for my set-up (Grandfather - prone to stuck fly sparges with fine grist) so I started at 1.3mm. It came out a little coarse with a noticeable number of intact barley grains, so i put it through again at 1mm. It looked pretty good (freed up the husks, grains cracked) so I went with it. There was a little more flour than I have noted with previous shop milled grists, but i didn't have too much trouble with the sparge. My fly sparges have been almost instant with previous shop grain crushes, but at 1mm gap the sparge took about 15 minutes which is not too bad. 5.6kg of grain giving pre-boil gravity of 1054 for 28L. Brewsmith calculated mash efficiency of 86%. It was a cool mash (63C) after a protein rest as I'm aiming for a dry finish for my Saison. However if i've got it right (i'm a newb) the temperature of the mash will affect fermentability but have little impact on mash efficiency. My mash pH was a tad low (4.9) and I'm not sure what impact that will have.
> 
> So I'm pretty happy with a mill gap of 1mm for the Grainfather, and will use this again next time. Don't know a lot about the BM but I suspect 1mm is going to be in the ballpark. Also don't know what a second pass through the mill does for grain that is already partially cracked?


Thank you for your input and comments.

I crush grain for other brewers as well as myself and at the moment I have only done it for myself with a BM and one other with a BM.

With a setting of close to 1mm we are achieving approximately the same Mash Efficiency that we were getting with the 1.2mm on the knurled set up.

When I am personally ready to do another brew for myself I will close it down to 0.9mm and give it a try.
I would not do this for others in case it causes wort fountains or drops efficiency.

At 1.0mm there is very little flour and all husks are still in tact, indicating that we must be pretty close.
My first brew was at 1.2 with the new rollers and I still got very close to my original mash efficiency.

I consider that one only result is not an accurate assessment as I used to vary around 1 to 2 percent with the knurled rollers depending on the type of grain...eg wheat, oats etc etc.

As long as all the brewers with two flutes and the others with a combination continue to report then it gives us all a good chance of getting the gap very close for our individual requirements.


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## Jack of all biers (29/2/16)

Anyone consider posting a You-tube video of the fluted mill in action? Or better still a comparison of grains crush with fluted rollers v knurled rollers. Those of us considering the new mill would be interested in seeing it first hand and I haven't found a good video of the knurled mill in action let alone the fluted.


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## nosco (1/3/16)

I just put my new roller in very quickly. The fluted roller went in really easily, snug as and no sanding required. It did get a bit of oily metal out of it and a bit of actual metal filling came out too which is a bit of a worry as its not even 12 months old. The adjustment knobs come out really easily now but it should be fine. It will make it easier to get a bit of lube in there. Cant wait to try it out on Friday! If I get a chance ill post a vid. I might have a vid of the old rollers and some pics of the old results.


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## nosco (1/3/16)

Bridges said:


> Yeah this too. I've just finished dodging up my new mill, I think I have some choc malt that's a bit old I'll throw through for it's maiden run, currently set to the width of a metric standard myki card spose its as good as anywhere to start.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice hopper Bridges! Howd ya make it? Some kind of down pipe/rainwater filter bits?


----------



## Smokomark (1/3/16)

dicko said:


> Thank you for your input and comments.
> I crush grain for other brewers as well as myself and at the moment I have only done it for myself with a BM and one other with a BM.
> With a setting of close to 1mm we are achieving approximately the same Mash Efficiency that we were getting with the 1.2mm on the knurled set up.
> When I am personally ready to do another brew for myself I will close it down to 0.9mm and give it a try.
> ...


I've settled on 0.9mm gap with 2 fluted rollers. I find I get the best crush with the mill just ticking over. It's a bit slower but less flour produced. Even going slow it still mills in a quarter of the time compared to the knurled rollers.
This is fine in my brau clone, my grainfather and my 3v system. Very happy with the efficiency on all three systems.

Smoko


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## dicko (1/3/16)

Thanks Smoko

That gives me a bit of confidence.
I will report back on results with the BM as I hope to brew on Sunday time permitting.


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## Bridges (1/3/16)

nosco said:


> Nice hopper Bridges! Howd ya make it? Some kind of down pipe/rainwater filter bits?


Exactly!
Went to the green shed. Didn't get a sausage got these or something similar
Hopper; http://www.bunnings.com.au/rain-harvesting-rain-head-leaf-catcha-dual-fit_p4760081
Adaptor thing; http://www.bunnings.com.au/holman-100-x-50-x-90mm-pvc-stormwater-downpipe-adaptor_p4770382
The bit I fixed to the ply (which I carved out an angled slot in) and attached to the mill; http://www.bunnings.com.au/icon-pvc-square-downpipe-pop-for-metal-gutter_p4775627

Thanks Smoko for your input, I'll dig out the feeler gauges and set to 0.9mm too for a brew sometime in the next week.


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## Jack of all biers (1/3/16)

Bridges said:


> Exactly!
> Went to the green shed. Didn't get a sausage got these or something similar
> Hopper; http://www.bunnings.com.au/rain-harvesting-rain-head-leaf-catcha-dual-fit_p4760081
> Adaptor thing; http://www.bunnings.com.au/holman-100-x-50-x-90mm-pvc-stormwater-downpipe-adaptor_p4770382
> ...


Legen........ wait for it...........dary.


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## Bridges (2/3/16)

Jack of all biers said:


> Legen........ wait for it...........dary.


Idea for the leaf catcher hopper was on here (AHB) for the marga grain mills which I upgraded from. I just adapted the setup I had for the new mill. 20litre big w pot catches my 5 to 6 kilos of crushed grain no worries.


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## butisitart (19/3/16)

sipping my first wheat to come out of the minimash. i don't know what my first two runs were set at, a credit card plus 1.5 notches. it looked good at eye sight, but clearly way too coarse. this wheat (2.1% alc when it should have been 4.5) looks like kiddies lemonade.

funnily enough, still a pleasant quaff on a hot afternoon. dunno if i'd call it beer though.

ran a batch through last weekend (for a gf) at 7mm (with my NEW feeler gauges.... woo hoo!!!), and that struggled on the gf mash, getting borderline stuck.
ran one through this morning on 55% wheat at 9mm. being wheat, had a 15min rest @52C then up to 67. overflow pipe was just able to handle it.
so my tentative theory on the gf is 9mm on barley and 9-10mm on wheat.

actually, this 2.1% is ok. my neighbour's got a 6 and 8 yr old. they'd probably love it. :chug:


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## Mardoo (19/3/16)

Belgian primary schools served 1-2% beers to the kids into the 1960's. Try it in your kids?


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## huez (19/3/16)

butisitart said:


> sipping my first wheat to come out of the minimash. i don't know what my first two runs were set at, a credit card plus 1.5 notches. it looked good at eye sight, but clearly way too coarse. this wheat (2.1% alc when it should have been 4.5) looks like kiddies lemonade.
> 
> funnily enough, still a pleasant quaff on a hot afternoon. dunno if i'd call it beer though.
> 
> ...


When you say 7mm or 9-10mm do you mean 0.7mm or 0.9mm?


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## Chridech (19/3/16)

butisitart said:


> sipping my first wheat to come out of the minimash. i don't know what my first two runs were set at, a credit card plus 1.5 notches. it looked good at eye sight, but clearly way too coarse. this wheat (2.1% alc when it should have been 4.5) looks like kiddies lemonade.
> 
> funnily enough, still a pleasant quaff on a hot afternoon. dunno if i'd call it beer though.
> 
> ...


Yep, last mill at 1mm with the new rollers turned out pretty good for the Grainfather. Longest sparge yet at 20minutes. Next time I'm going to push it to 0.9mm. Reckon this is going to be the sweetspot for Grainfather using the new rollers.

2.1% hmm... Beats my 3.2% (target ABV 5.5%) with my first AG brew. Just mow the lawn first and it will taste even better.


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## Jack of all biers (19/3/16)

butisitart said:


> ran a batch through last weekend (for a gf) at 7mm (with my NEW feeler gauges.... woo hoo!!!), and that struggled on the gf mash, getting borderline stuck.
> ran one through this morning on 55% wheat at 9mm. being wheat, had a 15min rest @52C then up to 67. overflow pipe was just able to handle it.
> so my tentative theory on the gf is 9mm on barley and 9-10mm on wheat.


You could just add 250 gm of rice hulls to help the lauter. I did this with my last Weizen with 66% wheat bill and it lautered just brilliantly. It's not Deutsche Rheinheitsgebot, but it doesn't add anything, but ease of lauter! That way you could stick with the 0.7mm crush and improve efficiency without lauter issues. Admittedly I don't have a GF so speak only from 3V Mashtun experience.


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## Zorco (10/4/16)

huez said:


> When you say 7mm or 9-10mm do you mean 0.7mm or 0.9mm?


He must, otherwise he is making beer from walnuts.

And I wouldn't put that past a mini mill anyway[emoji51]


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## Mr B (10/4/16)

For those with a fluted and knurled combo, on the weekend I did a batch. Went with 1.05mm for a 1V recirc mash w 3:1 mash ratio.

Went ok, maybe a little fine as flow was slow. Though I'm usually a BIAB so new process for me.

I'm not 100% sure on the accuracy of measurement with combo rollers, as there are logically high/low points due to the flutes (depending if measuring on top of a flute or otherwise etc).

Anyhow, I checked this thread before milling and there were no recommendations, so this may assist another brewer.


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## butisitart (10/4/16)

huez said:


> When you say 7mm or 9-10mm do you mean 0.7mm or 0.9mm?


point taken


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## mattlea266 (11/4/16)

Mr B said:


> For those with a fluted and knurled combo, on the weekend I did a batch. Went with 1.05mm for a 1V recirc mash w 3:1 mash ratio.
> 
> Went ok, maybe a little fine as flow was slow. Though I'm usually a BIAB so new process for me.
> 
> ...


I recirc with biab and worked my way up to 1.38mm. This is not a fine crush but because I recirc I dont like it too fine anyway. Ran wheat through on its own for the last brew and it looked like a good crush. Grain runs through pretty fast using an aeg 18v cordless on 1st speed. 
Hope this helps anyone else playing around with this new setup. 
Thanks to mashmaster for their product support and prompt replacement roller.


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## Chridech (26/4/16)

Chridech said:


> Yep, last mill at 1mm with the new rollers turned out pretty good for the Grainfather. Longest sparge yet at 20minutes. Next time I'm going to push it to 0.9mm. Reckon this is going to be the sweetspot for Grainfather using the new rollers.
> 
> 2.1% hmm... Beats my 3.2% (target ABV 5.5%) with my first AG brew. Just mow the lawn first and it will taste even better.


Reporting back on mill gap setting after my last couple of brews with the Grainfather and using the fluted (double rollers) Mashmaster. Tried 0.9mm and found that I had a slower sparge at 20-25 minutes. Not sure if my calculations were correct but came out at 78% mash efficiency which is below what achieved with 1mm. I think there is a fair bit of hit and miss measuring the gap using a feeler gauge with the fluted rollers. 0.1mm is bugger all difference in my book. The gap as measured changes as to what position the rollers are in (i.e. in the valley or the peak of the flutes). Last weekends brew I used 1mm gap (as best as I could measure); the sparge was easy (6.4kg all barley malt) and mash efficiency was 85%. So for now I will stick to 1mm for the GF. Will try a smaller gap when I brew with a wheat malt.


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## S.E (26/4/16)

Chridech said:


> Reporting back on mill gap setting after my last couple of brews with the Grainfather and using the knurled (double rollers) Mashmaster. Tried 0.9mm and found that I had a slower sparge at 20-25 minutes. Not sure if my calculations were correct but came out at 78% mash efficiency which is below what achieved with 1mm. I think there is a fair bit of hit and miss measuring the gap using a feeler gauge with the knurled rollers. 0.1mm is bugger all difference in my book. The gap as measured changes as to what position the rollers are in (i.e. in the valley or the peak of the knurls). Last weekends brew I used 1mm gap (as best as I could measure); the sparge was easy (6.4kg all barley malt) and mash efficiency was 85%. So for now I will stick to 1mm for the GF. Will try a smaller gap when I brew with a wheat malt.


Are you talking knurled or fluted rollers mate? You say knurled but sounds more like you’re describing fluted when you say “i.e. in the valley or the peak of the knurls” also your post #352 in this thread says you have fluted.


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## Chridech (26/4/16)

S.E said:


> Are you talking knurled or fluted rollers mate? You say knurled but sounds more like you’re describing fluted when you say “i.e. in the valley or the peak of the knurls” also your post #352 in this thread says you have fluted.


Yes sorry S.E, one too many IPAs already tonight. Fluted they are. Will edit my post. Cheers


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## Bridges (7/5/16)

Don't laugh I know it's been a few months but first proper go on the new mill. I just ripped through 4.6 kilos of grain in a couple of minutes. Width set at 1 myki card. Crush looked perfect. These mills are fantastic. I'd just high fived myself and congratulated myself on the great choice of mill I made, then when cleaning said awesome mill blew some flour off the rollers and directly into my eyes. Currently mashing in the BM and a mini mash sitting at 38 degrees in my eyeballs...
Beer will probably fix this.


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## Benn (7/5/16)

I regularly cleanse my Eyeballs with beer, it's an old family tradition stemming from the great water shortage of 2008.


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## Bridges (7/5/16)

Benn said:


> I regularly cleanse my Eyeballs with beer, it's an old family tradition stemming from the great water shortage of 2008.


FACE PALM!!! Here I was just drinking it and wondering why my eyes were still so sore. Could also be something to do with today being international masturbation day...

Back on topic mash master fluted rollers are awesome.


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## Mardoo (7/5/16)

Bridges said:


> Could also be something to do with today being international masturbation day...
> 
> Back on topic mash master skin-fluted rollers are awesome.


FTFY


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## Zorco (7/5/16)

Bridges, on 07 May 2016 - 6:37 PM, said:




Bridges said:


> Could also be something to do with today being international masturbation day...
> 
> Back on topic mash master skin-fluted roll hers are awesome.


FTFY


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