# Dedicated Braumeister Guide, Problems & Solution Thread



## idzy

Based on recent discussion, I thought it would be worth getting the ball rolling on a thread dedicated to discussing the Braumeister. Since brewing is similar for 20l and 50l, this thread can be for both versions and can be used to discuss the various nuances associated with Braumeister brewing kit.

(borrowed from Chappo, thanks)
I suggest:


To stay on topic where reasonable (a little friendly banter is ok)
Purely on procedures, techniques, brewing techniques, equipment, technology and set ups.
Talk on recipes and results from Braumeister systems
Photo's, drawings, scribbles of gear and set up is a must.
No trolling lets keep it straight, debate well, deal with facts and remain focused. Difference of opinion is more than acceptable. Calling someone out for a shooting and pissing contest isn't.
Advanced brewing techniques using Braumeister.
Beginner advice on setting Braumeister systems up.
The thread will be actively Moderated to keep it on topic.
Now this isn't an elitist thread ok. So please don't start banging that one out guys. It is however for those in the Braumeister world of brewing. We don't bash on much about our systems etc as mentioned above. But it will be a place where those doing Braumeister can advance and share their knowledge.


Cheers

Idzy


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## Moad

I'll get things started...

I am one brew in on my 20L BM, very impressed with the quality of the unit and the ease of use!

My first brew I wanted to pump 21L in to the fermenter but pulled up short by 2L (4.5KG, 1.043 target OG). I started the mash with 25 litres, sparged after the mash to bring it up to 27L for a 90 minute boil.

Not sure if my planned boil off value was wrong or if the 27L should have been enough for a 60 minute (but not 90) boil but I ended up with about 22.5 after cooling and lost the rest to trub. I got 19L at 1.047 so I think it was simply more boil off than I anticipated.

What volume does everyone usually mash in with? What sort of boil off should I expect (I understand this will vary depending on location). I recorded as much info as I thought was necessary but I still don't think I know how to really dial my volumes/targets in yet. Any advice on what/when to measure? Should I be losing this much to trub?

Using BeerSmith if that helps...

Moad.


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## wide eyed and legless

Is this thread replacing the Tips & Tricks thread ?


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## dicko

Until there is a decision whether to create a sub forum or not we will leave it here, athough we may consider moving or merging it to the "Tips and Tricks" topic.

Moad, here is the link to the other topic which in post 416 will give you the figures for my 20l BM

It sounds as though you got it close but underestimated your boil off.
As you will see from the beersmith figures mine boils off around 3.5 litres for 60 mins

I mash in with 25 litres and sparge the rest of the volume of water

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/57118-braumeister-tips-tricks/page-21


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## Moad

I think I must have forgotten to tick the box for "hourly" boil off volume so had calculated 3.5 over the 90 minutes.

Would have been fairly close thanks mate I'll grab it. 

I did start to read through that thread but it is a beast!


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## Crusty

I'm a little bit in the dark as well with my new 50lt Braumeister.
Using BeerSmith, I'm looking @80% efficiency for a 40lt batch ( 2 x 20lt cubes ) 53lt mash in, 11 odd litres of sparge, 90min boil, 6.2lt boil off ( 11.1% ) 5lt loss to trub & chiller & 2lt loss to fermenter. Not sure how close this will be so anyone with a 50lt Brau like to chime in, that would be really helpful.
Boiling with the thermo jacket as well.


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## Crusty

Actually, I'll mash in with 55lt & do a 9lt ish sparge.


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## stakka82

I usually try to get 2 full 20 litre cubes and a 10 litre out of a medium OG beer (1045-1055). I mash in with around 55 litres, rinse with 10 litres slowly, and let drain for about 20 mins after the last litre of rinse. I'll then chuck the last couple of litres left in my hot water urn into the brau for the start of the boil.

Doing this I get about 23 litres in each full size cube, but often won't quite be able to fill the 10 litre cube. I top up the last couple of litres with boiling water which gives me a mid/three quater strength 'starter' cube which is great for liquid yeasts. When that cube ferments out I split the cake and dump the two cubes on each half. This method is pretty good for lagers cause if you use a smackpack that's less than a month old you're correctly pitching on the small cube, then you're effectively giving a 5 litre starter to each of your 1045-55 full strength/volume cubes.

I remember hearing anecdotes of extended mashouts giving vastly improved efficiencies - yesterday I was out while the mash finished and it probably held mashout for about an hour before I could pull the pipe. Using the method above I will usually get 80-84% efficiency. Yesterday hit a whopping 93%!!!!

The result is great if I can replcate it consistently... as a once off it was a bit of a pain in the ass cause I wanted a session lager, but now I have a 1055 OG with a fairly chewy grist and only 27 IBU... 

Cheers

Edit: I should clarify that when I say I mash in with 55 litres, that's by the tie rod marking which is actually nearer to 60 litres.


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## Moad

So I think my fermenter expanded and threw me off. It ended up perfect, corny full = success.

27 litres for 60 minute boil in the 20L BM will give you final volume after all losses of 20L ess


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## Dan Pratt

Moad said:


> So I think my fermenter expanded and threw me off. It ended up perfect, corny full = success.
> 
> 27 litres for 60 minute boil in the 20L BM will give you final volume after all losses of 20L ess


I add 28 litres to my 20lt bm and adjust the water at 20c. Remove 3litres and add malt pipe and malt plus screens. Start pump and add back the 3 litres, let it run for 20mins and then adjust pH accordingly. This reducing the Sparge volume, generally have 32lt after sparge and boil for 90mins. 3.5 lts trub, 21 into fv.


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## Moad

You lose 7.5 during a 90 minute boil? 

I'll take some more accurate measurements for trub etc next brew


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## Dan Pratt

Sorry that should have been 30lts preboil volume.


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## Moad

Yeah that makes sense, I started with 28 and added a litre when I realised I was going to be short and had 20 into FV. 

I think I'll do the same brew again and see if they are identical


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## Ckilner




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## Ckilner

Apologies, but changing the thread a little. I have a 20l Braumeister and have been doing a brew about every two or three weeks since last June when I bought it. It's certainly a great bit of kit and I'm getting some really good results. The problem I've found is the outlet tap blocks with hops. I use a diaphragm pump to move the beer from the Braumeister via an oxygenator into my fermenter. I've modified the Braumeister by clipping a small square of stainless steel mesh over the outlet on the inside and this has helped a lot at keeping the hops out of the pipe but some brews seems to have more clag than others and occasionally it still blocks. I thought about making a false bottom for the Braumeister (a bit like the metal plates and filters that go in the malt pipe) which would sit above the level of the outlet. When the malt pipe comes out I'd drop the false bottom in, sliding it over the centre pin.
Does anyone else have this trouble and have a workaround?


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## doon

Put a ball valve on there instead of tap that comes with it won't block then. Just need a reduced piece between bm hole and ball valve


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## Batz

A lot of BM owners have changed the valve, here's mine.


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## Black n Tan

The hops should settle to the bottom after whirlpooling/settling. Do you whirlpool or allow the trub to settle for 30 minutes or so before you rack to your fermenter? Are you using whole hop flowers or pellets?


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## Ckilner

I have tried whirlpooling but I put my immersion cooler in a few minutes before the end of the boil so that it get sanitised. I have tried removing it and then whirlpooling but doesn't seem to have much effect. I start the cool immediately after the boil so no settling time - perhaps that's where I'm going wrong. I have used whole hop flowers up until today's brew where I used pellets for bittering. I think the pellets and some very flakey dried hops caused all the blockages.


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## Ckilner

Just found this on a website for sale. Much the same principle as my filter but a bit more industrial.


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## Ckilner

I have also considered avoiding the problem by holding the hops in muslin bags but I'm not sure they would impart as much flavour if trapped in a bag.


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## Mr. No-Tip

Looks interesting. What website is that being sold on?

New tap should mean no blockages in any case.


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## durgarth

I have had my 50 litre for 18 months or so and have tried using an immersion chiller and whirlpooling, then gave it away. It was just too difficult. So I shelled out the extra and moved to a plate chiller and have not looked back. I now I whirlpool, leaving it settle for 15 minutes (adding last minute hop additions during that time) then chill straight into the fermenting vessel. Adding a clarifying agent also helps. I know the 30 plate chiller is fairly expensive and was was around $150, but it is money well spent .


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## Ckilner

Here http://www.vigoltd.com


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## Ckilner

This is my hop blocker (excuse the thumb, I trapped it in the sash window on brew day!



)
Just a square of SS mesh. The mesh sits behind the element of course - the reflection is deceptive.


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## Ckilner

durgarth said:


> 004.JPG
> 
> I have had my 50 litre for 18 months or so and have tried using an immersion chiller and whirlpooling, then gave it away. It was just too difficult. So I shelled out the extra and moved to a plate chiller and have not looked back. I now I whirlpool, leaving it settle for 15 minutes (adding last minute hop additions during that time) then chill straight into the fermenting vessel. Adding a clarifying agent also helps. I know the 30 plate chiller is fairly expensive and was was around $150, but it is money well spent .


I've thought about a plate chiller but I've read various opinions about sanitising them and how you know they are clean inside. How do you clean them?
(I add Protofloc 15 mins before the end of the boil)


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## Ckilner

As I mentioned earlier, I pump the wort from the Braumeister to the fermenter so would a plate chiller cool fast enough I wonder?


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## pnorkle

Ckilner said:


> I've thought about a plate chiller but I've read various opinions about sanitising them and how you know they are clean inside. How do you clean them?
> (I add Protofloc 15 mins before the end of the boil)


With my chiller, as soon as I've finished with it I flush & back flush it a couple of times, then empty it out. Prior to next use, I fill it with a solution of hot water & NapiSan and let it sit for half an hour, then immediately before use, rinse it out and flush it with StarSan. Might be a little OTT but haven't had a problem with it yet and have never had an infection.


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## durgarth

Plus one to Pnorkle. I also back flush the plate chiller several times (it only takes a couple of minutes and then let it air dry upside down). On the day I'm going to brew I put the plate chiller in the kitchen oven and turn it on to 120 degrees just after I mash in. It warms up for about 90 minutes or less and I take it out of the oven at the time I start to boil. I cover the mash in/out tube ends with foil. That way its has time to cool and there is no chance of any bugs getting into the chiller, or if they do they are fried.

I have never pumped the wort, I have always used gravity, then adjusted the flow of the hot wort to achieve the right temperature. For example in Canberra at present the water temp out of the tap sits around 20 degrees. So its a bit slower and I cant get the wort below about 22. However in winter the water is freezing cold....10 or 11 degrees (max) and the tap from the Brau goes flat out or I adjust the cold water flow.

Either way its no more than 15 minutes to empty. I have a very long garden hose and i put it on the garden beds at the front of the house (comes out warm not hot), so no waste


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## stakka82

^ That's impressive. I always worried about sanitising a plate chiller but the oven is a great trick and foolproof.

Question - I have absolutely no electrical knowledge and want to take my 50l brau over to a mate's to brew. He doesn't have a dedicated 15 amp socket. What happens if I try to run it on a normal socket? If it draws too much power will it just trip the circuit and activate some sort of circuit breaker/safety device on the powerboard?


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## pnorkle

I think you'll find that the 15A plug won't fit into a 10A outlet - the earth pin is larger than the 10A.


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## durgarth

Yeah



pnorkle said:


> I think you'll find that the 15A plug won't fit into a 10A outlet - the earth pin is larger than the 10A.


Even if you could somehow get it to plug in the 50l regularly draws 14 amps especially during the boil. It will trip the circuit.


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## stakka82

Really? The plug just looked normal to me, but I've never had that close a look at it to be honest.

And if it trips the circuit what happens? Other stuff on the circuit just turns off and I have to go to the board and turn the circuit back on yeah?


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## durgarth

The earth plug is longer and a bit wider. The positive and return are the same size. So when you go to plug it into the 10amp circuit the top two will go but not the earth.

If the circuit trips it will be that circuit alone. For what its worth, don't do it, I am not an electrician but my brother in law is and there are plenty on this forum who will probably tell you the same, its not so much the circuit breaker its the heat generated (and some other stuff I can't remember).


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## pnorkle

> its not so much the circuit breaker its the heat generated


 This is the important bit - as durgarth says, not a good a good idea to do it - if the heat generated caused a fire (say, if the electrical wiring inside the walls ignited) and the house burnt down, you'd probably find that insurance company wouldn't pay out if they found out the cause. Not worth the risk.


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## stakka82

Thanks, that answers my question I guess.


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## Crusty

stakka82 said:


> Really? The plug just looked normal to me, but I've never had that close a look at it to be honest.
> 
> And if it trips the circuit what happens? Other stuff on the circuit just turns off and I have to go to the board and turn the circuit back on yeah?


I tried to cheat a bit with my new 50lt. I purchased a 15A extension cord with 15A plugs on both ends. I cut the male side off & wired up a 10A plug so I could just plug it into a normal household 10A powerpoint. The Braumeister ran fine for my water tests but a couple of problems with doing it.
1. The Braumeister was running on the same circuit as quite a few of the powerpoints in the house so if the wife switched on the kettle for a cuppa, the circuit would trip.
2. The powerpoint got quite hot from the extended power draw & continually doing that would no doubt place extra strain on the existing wiring & possibly lead to melted wires or a burnt looking plug & or powerpoint.
I ended up just getting a sparky to come over & wire up it's own 15A powerpoint with it's own circuit breaker. I paid $20.00 for the powerpoint & $150.00 for the electrician. I really wouldn't muck around with trying to run the thing on a standard 10A outlet, too hot & too risky.



durgarth said:


> Yeah
> 
> 
> Even if you could somehow get it to plug in the 50l regularly draws 14 amps especially during the boil. It will trip the circuit.


No it wont trip the circuit unless it's running on the same circuit as another appliance & they decide to switch it on. A 10A circuit breaker will trip out @16A, the Braumeister will run without tripping the circuit.


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## Coalminer

Crusty said:


> I tried to cheat a bit with my new 50lt. I purchased a 15A extension cord with 15A plugs on both ends. I cut the male side off & wired up a 10A plug so I could just plug it into a normal household 10A powerpoint. The Braumeister ran fine for my water tests but a couple of problems with doing it.
> 1. The Braumeister was running on the same circuit as quite a few of the powerpoints in the house so if the wife switched on the kettle for a cuppa, the circuit would trip.
> 2. The powerpoint got quite hot from the extended power draw & continually doing that would no doubt place extra strain on the existing wiring & possibly lead to melted wires or a burnt looking plug & or powerpoint.
> I ended up just getting a sparky to come over & wire up it's own 15A powerpoint with it's own circuit breaker. I paid $20.00 for the powerpoint & $150.00 for the electrician. I really wouldn't muck around with trying to run the thing on a standard 10A outlet, too hot & too risky.
> 
> 
> No it wont trip the circuit unless it's running on the same circuit as another appliance & they decide to switch it on. A 10A circuit breaker will trip out @16A, the Braumeister will run without tripping the circuit.


Whilst the power circuit is normally protected with a 15amp fuse or circuit breaker and the wiring is rated at 15 amp the wall outlets are only rated at 10 amps
There was a time when they could handle 15 amps but even so called good brands such as HPM are now made in China and I would think that they are not over designed like in the past


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## Crusty

Coalminer said:


> Whilst the power circuit is normally protected with a 15amp fuse or circuit breaker and the wiring is rated at 15 amp the wall outlets are only rated at 10 amps
> There was a time when they could handle 15 amps but even so called good brands such as HPM are now made in China and I would think that they are not over designed like in the past


Yep.
Which is why I said, _"possibly lead to melted wires or a burnt looking plug & or powerpoint."_
Everything is getting made in China these days & quantity over quality seems to be the demand unfortunately.


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## dicko

Apart from the obvious safety factor with power points and wires getting hot and an EXTREME RISK of fire, tho boil off rates will be affected due to the equipment not being able to draw the power without resistance.
A fifteen amp circuit does not only mean a bigger power point but it requires a circuit that has the correct size cabling and has no other appliances feeding off it unless it is rated for hat load.
Spend the dollars and do it correctly!!!


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## stakka82

It's been done correctly at my place, just thought I could get away with a cheeky one here and there at a friend's.

Obviously not!


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## wide eyed and legless

Has your mate not got an electric oven power point ?


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## whitegoose

So I've just done my second brew on my 20L BM and have to say I am really not happy with the boil at all. It's probably more like what I would call simmering. Like others have said my temp dances around 98-99 for most of the time, which if you ask me is just not good enough. Even an hour into a 90 minute boil I still have hot break / scum collecting in a film over half of the wort surface, which I have never seen before. I have an insulation jacket around mine and I don;t think it makes any difference.

Anyway, I'm thinking about getting a submersible over-the-side heating element to supplement the BM element and get a proper boil going. Does anybody have any idea how much power would be enough? Some brewing shops sell 2400W over the side elements, but I reckon that would be overkill for a system that already has a simmering boil... Or will I need an element with that much power to get my wort to 100 degrees _regardless _of how hot the other element has made the wort? I don't really know much about the science of heating things up!!

Or would I be better off with the old floating tin trick... or just suck it up and live with it if my beers are okay?


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## Mr. No-Tip

whitegoose said:


> ... or just suck it up and live with it if my beers are okay?


This. 90 min boils with pils malt and no DMS for me. Do some historical reading and you'll find a number of classic brewing techniques used a slow boil no worries. Altitude can mean boil sub 100 anyways. I certainly can't break it, but the product works.


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## Batz

It freaks us all out a first, a slow boil is a good boil, just wait and see your results.

Really what is a strong boil? Hotter? no, boil off more, yes. I often compare cooking with brewing as I love to cook as well, so do you think a hard boil will improve your cooking flavours?

We are all led to believe a big boil almost climbing out the pot is the only way, otherwise what will happen? Armageddon? I survived three years.
Believe me you'll be happy, relax. :drinks:

Batz


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## Mr. No-Tip

Plus I think you'll be surprised how much that soft simmer actually boils off when you measure it...


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## whitegoose

Thanks peeps, I'll suck it up end enjoy the beer!

FWIW - I think I've getting about 3.7-4.0 litres boil-off per hour... does that line up with what you see? Not worrying about the rolling boil anymore - just trying to fine tune my spreadsheet.


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## Mr. No-Tip

For my 50l I work off 5.5 an hour. Informed by threads like this and a water based boil off test. I should revisit based in actual brews, but I haven't.


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## Ckilner

I've been using my 20l BM for 9 months now and have calculated the boil off rate to be 2l/hour and have confirmed this to be about spot on for quite a few brews. I set the boil to 102 degs C and it works fine. I too have a thermal jacket on it and I think it does help a lot but I'm in the UK and it's generally cold here.


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## danestead

I get between 11 and 12% boil off which equates to between 3.1 and 3.4L per hr for my size batch in my 20L brau


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## Ckilner

My mistake. My boil off is actually 3l/hour for a 20l BM - misread by figures. So I agree with Kit Master


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## Dan Pratt

hi,

Lately i have been reading that some 3v users and others are getting 90% + brewhouse efficiency for the brew day...i get 70%.

My mash efficiency is plus 85% on average depending on style and malt quantity and sparging however Im bothered that with a top rig like the BM i can only get 70% BHE.

I know if i kept the trub and decanted that into a container, chilled over night i would get another 3litres of wort but that only brings me to 80%.

What are you getting for your BHE % - not mash eff, Brew House Efficiency?


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## danestead

Pratty1 said:


> hi,
> 
> Lately i have been reading that some 3v users and others are getting 90% + brewhouse efficiency for the brew day...i get 70%.
> 
> My mash efficiency is plus 85% on average depending on style and malt quantity and sparging however Im bothered that with a top rig like the BM i can only get 70% BHE.
> 
> I know if i kept the trub and decanted that into a container, chilled over night i would get another 3litres of wort but that only brings me to 80%.
> 
> What are you getting for your BHE % - not mash eff, Brew House Efficiency?



82% mash efficiency and about 72% brewhouse efficiency on my 20L brau.

I find it incredibly hard to believe someone can get 90% mash efficiency, let alone brewhouse efficiency on a home brew scale. Besides, I thought there were issues with getting too high efficiency, but I may be wrong?


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## stakka82

Make sure you are tilting the unit when draining and getting a good whirlpool. I generally get 85-90% ME and 80-85% BHE.

On top of that do an extended mashout with meaty steps at beta and alpha temp ranges.

I almost always get 82-84% BHE with:

1o mins at 54
30 mins at 63
30 mins at 73
1hr at 78

Whirlpool, drain, tilt = less than 2 litres left in 50BM = less than 4% eff diff between ME and BHE.

Cheers


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## Dan Pratt

danestead said:


> I find it incredibly hard to believe someone can get 90% mash efficiency, let alone brewhouse efficiency on a home brew scale. Besides, I thought there were issues with getting too high efficiency, but I may be wrong?


Thanks danestead.

I questioned the %'s for BHE and I asked the questions and ran the numbers and they are correct. mind you they fly sparge, control sparge pH @ ~6 and when they drain the boil kettle they get ALL the liquid, ALL of it - check out this link:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ and go to the products and see the flat hop blocker they use.


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## Dan Pratt

stakka82 said:


> I generally get 85-90% ME and 80-85% BHE.
> 
> Whirlpool, drain, tilt = less than 2 litres left in 50BM = less than 4% eff diff between ME and BHE.


Hi Stakka,

Thanks for your %'s, getting 80-85%BHE is great, when i compare to my current results.

Ive been batch sparging for about 45-60mins after pulling the malt pipe, i whirlpool at the end and let it settle out and then tilt her forward and still left with 3.5lts of trub. i could take the trub and like mentioning before decant/chill and my % goes up.

I wonder if we could fit a curved hop blocker to the inside outlet and get more wort into the FV?


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## danestead

Pratty1 said:


> Thanks danestead.
> 
> I questioned the %'s for BHE and I asked the questions and ran the numbers and they are correct. mind you they fly sparge, control sparge pH @ ~6 and when they drain the boil kettle they get ALL the liquid, ALL of it - check out this link:
> 
> http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ and go to the products and see the flat hop blocker they use.


Oh nice, thats a great way to minimise losses!


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## Dan Pratt

danestead said:


> Oh nice, thats a great way to minimise losses!


 they show a bunch of pictures with the brewdays of the massive, i mean massive hop additions 20+ ounces ( 560grams aka halfa kilo ) and the wort is all in teh FV and just the hop/trub debris in the base of the kettle.


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## dicko

You wont be able to use the electric brewery hop blocker as you wont get the malt pipe in the BM


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## Dan Pratt

dicko said:


> You wont be able to use the electric brewery hop blocker as you wont get the malt pipe in the BM


yeah i know, sure did try and figure out how to use one though....after the mash...80c...few pairs of gloves.....no?


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## stakka82

Pratty1 said:


> Hi Stakka,
> 
> Thanks for your %'s, getting 80-85%BHE is great, when i compare to my current results.
> 
> Ive been batch sparging for about 45-60mins after pulling the malt pipe, i whirlpool at the end and let it settle out and then tilt her forward and still left with 3.5lts of trub. i could take the trub and like mentioning before decant/chill and my % goes up.
> 
> I wonder if we could fit a curved hop blocker to the inside outlet and get more wort into the FV?



Sorry Pratty you make a good point: I forgot to mention I also sparge/rinse with 10 litres water after pulling the pipe/while ramping up to boil.

Not sure how you'd calculate that time wise.

I have a really big mash paddle which is ideal for whirlpooling which helps me reduce trub through very tight cone formation. It's the big SS one from KK if you're interested.

Another thing is I mill pretty fine - around 0.9-1mm. I reckon that should get you another few points too.

Yeah a hop blocker would be ideal, pretty hard to find something that's gonna filter out trub/hop pellet debris though.

I have recently been trying to figure out the best way to brew in the brau with my recently harvested flowers too.


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## stakka82

wide eyed and legless said:


> Has your mate not got an electric oven power point ?


Good question - if i went this route and ran an extension cord from that outlet to the garage would it work? Does the lead need to be rated for 15A too?

Also are pretty much all ovens 15A?

Thanks


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## timmyf

Pratty1 said:


> I wonder if we could fit a curved hop blocker to the inside outlet and get more wort into the FV?


Looks like Speidel are already all over this:

http://speidels-braumeister.de/shop/en/Accessories/Brewing/Hop-sieve-for-20-litre-and-50-litre-Braumeister

Haven't seen it for sale in Australia though. I'd jump on one if it were.

Alternatively, has anyone tried hopping into the malt pipe? As in, putting the malt pipe with the bottom filter back in during the boil (hanging off the top set of bolts, not sealed to the bottom) and throwing your hops in this way. Should be a lot less trub loss, but it might affect utilisation. Next time I use flowers I'll give it a try.

Cheers,
Tim


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## wide eyed and legless

Stakka the oven power point is O/k and you will need a 15 amp lead.


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## stakka82

timmyf said:


> Looks like Speidel are already all over this:
> 
> http://speidels-braumeister.de/shop/en/Accessories/Brewing/Hop-sieve-for-20-litre-and-50-litre-Braumeister
> 
> Haven't seen it for sale in Australia though. I'd jump on one if it were.
> 
> Alternatively, has anyone tried hopping into the malt pipe? As in, putting the malt pipe with the bottom filter back in during the boil (hanging off the top set of bolts, not sealed to the bottom) and throwing your hops in this way. Should be a lot less trub loss, but it might affect utilisation. Next time I use flowers I'll give it a try.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim


I dunno how much that would stop pellets from coming through but i reckon it's a great idea for flowers if you had wort over the first 5 cms or so over the bottom plate/ filter


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## Mr. No-Tip

timmyf said:


> Looks like Speidel are already all over this:
> 
> http://speidels-braumeister.de/shop/en/Accessories/Brewing/Hop-sieve-for-20-litre-and-50-litre-Braumeister
> 
> Haven't seen it for sale in Australia though. I'd jump on one if it were.
> 
> Alternatively, has anyone tried hopping into the malt pipe? As in, putting the malt pipe with the bottom filter back in during the boil (hanging off the top set of bolts, not sealed to the bottom) and throwing your hops in this way. Should be a lot less trub loss, but it might affect utilisation. Next time I use flowers I'll give it a try.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim


Interesting looking filter. I wonder if any local retailers will carry.

The idea of the malt pipe is intriguing. You'd want to put it in ahead of 0 mins for sanitation purposes and give the boil time to recover. I wonder if it would stunt your whirlpool a fair bit.


----------



## Dan Pratt

the speidel one looks ok, i was thinking more along the lines of a curved bazooka.

This one isnt curved but you could shape it.


----------



## DeGarre

Perhaps I'm a bit thick and a slow learner but what this bloke did at 14mins20sec mark blew my mind. I have been using a bucket and and the lid turned upside down.

http://youtu.be/4E4cSKMpFO4?t=14m20s


----------



## Dan Pratt

DeGarre said:


> Perhaps I'm a bit thick and a slow learner but what this bloke did at 14mins20sec mark blew my mind. I have been using a bucket and and the lid turned upside down.
> 
> http://youtu.be/4E4cSKMpFO4?t=14m20s


And then he filtered it through a tea towel.......


----------



## dicko

Pratty1 said:


> And then he filtered it through a tea towel.......


I couldn't believe that.


----------



## Dan Pratt

dicko said:


> I couldn't believe that.


after watching the whole vid anticipating something new at 14m20s...nope....just a bloke that uses a drill to mash in and a tea towel to stop the hops from going into the FV....surely he know you can chill, whirlpool and leave for 30mins. no need for a TT.

Anyway for the DeGarre...I use a fridge shelf to sparge over ( posted before )


----------



## ricardope

Hi all! 
Does anyone have the equipment profile to use with the iBrewmaster 2 app for the BM 20L?
Here's a screenshot of the parameters I'd need. 
Helpful souls will have good brewing karma for a decade. 
Thanks a lot. 
Ricardo Lopes


----------



## danestead

ricardope said:


> Hi all!
> Does anyone have the equipment profile to use with the iBrewmaster 2 app for the BM 20L?
> Here's a screenshot of the parameters I'd need.
> Helpful souls will have good brewing karma for a decade.
> Thanks a lot.
> Ricardo Lopes
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1399508644.024797.jpg


To start you off, this is what I use in my brew software. 

Absorption 0.5L/kg
Kettle loss 3L
Cooling shrinkage 4%
Evap 11%/hr

The rest shouldn't matter I don't think.


----------



## peterl1981

Hi guys i'm about to buy a sheet of perforated stainless steel sheet for false bottom in my new braumeister..

Just wondering if a 2mm hole and 2mm think would do the trick?

or would a 3mm hole be better??

cheers
peter


----------



## Ckilner

Why are you adding a false bottom to the Braumeister?


----------



## MastersBrewery

Ckilner said:


> Why are you adding a false bottom to the Braumeister?


I think he's building one, but anyway, so am I, so the original has 2mm plate perf with 3mm holes. I'm geting 2mm plate with 2mm holes, so give me a week or two and I'll let you know.


----------



## peterl1981

well its going to be a little different to braumeister, i'm going to avoid the alltread in the middle.. se i will need perforated stainless on bottom and some on top.

sorry i'm in wrong thread


----------



## Malty

Can anyone tell me the actual time taken for their brewday with the bm and is it the sort of thing you could walk away from to do other things during mash and or boil times? Looking at buying one.


----------



## doon

Depends how many steps in the mash you want to take.Longest day ive had was 6 hours, shortest like 3-4. Yep you can walk away just check on it every now and then


----------



## Malty

Thanks, about the same time as I take now. Gotta be better than watching a gas flame. Do you find heating times ok or do they drag out a bit


----------



## doon

I have thermal jacket and homemade hood and seems pretty reasonable. If its a cold day it can drag out


----------



## danestead

Ive personally ducked out to the pub whilst the mash was going and come back to it sitting at mash out for a few hours. Ive read of guys mashing in at room temp at night and programming the brau to start mashing early in the morning so that when they wake up it is at mash out and ready to boil. During the mash you can pretty much let it do its thing however I usually give the grain 2 or 3 stirs. This is not required though. Heating time is a bit less than 1 degree per minute up towards boiling temp. Brew day takes me generally 6 hours including all the cleanup, cracking grain etc. Im sure that could be cut back to about 4 hourw though if you were cubing and had cut the boil/mash times back a bit.


----------



## dicko

You can quite comfortably walk away during the mash however the boil will depend on the hop additions.
If you have one hop addition at 60 minutes and don't want to add anything else and you no chill, then you can leave it as well if you like.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Malty said:


> Can anyone tell me the actual time taken for their brewday with the bm and is it the sort of thing you could walk away from to do other things during mash and or boil times? Looking at buying one.


Hey Malty,

I often leave my BM for the mash cycle and head out somewhere and only need to be there for the sparge, boil and hop additions etc, everything post mash..... Even while the boil is on I can take a seat on the lounge inside if there is not additions from the 90 or 60min until the last 10mins. My brew day is averaging about 7hrs with 3-4step mashes, a 90m Sacc rest and a 90min boil plus 20+mins whirlpooling. Having it automated for the mash cylce and since the 1st beer I made on mine its always been mash in and go do other things, literally leaving the house to return to it beeping at mashhout temp 

I can streamline the teh brewday to about 5hrs if Im doing a 45min mash + mashout and then a 30min boil and chilling right after boil, but that is only on small <4% golden ales that Ive been working on.


----------



## reddog

Anyone Tried the new model yet?


----------



## Spiesy

reddog said:


> Anyone Tried the new model yet?


Yes. I have done two brews on my 50L. 

One brew on the big malt pipe and did my first brew with the short malt pipe yesterday. 

It seems a lot of the functionality of the new control system isn't there yet, and will be coming in a subsequent firmware update (prob around March). 

You can still brew no problems, but saving recipes isn't as it should be just yet.

I'm still learning the system, so it's hard for me to comment just yet. Very disappointed with my efforts with the short malt pipe yesterday. Ridiculous limits on that thing.


----------



## lael

Spiesy said:


> Yes. I have done two brews on my 50L.
> 
> One brew on the big malt pipe and did my first brew with the short malt pipe yesterday.
> 
> It seems a lot of the functionality of the new control system isn't there yet, and will be coming in a subsequent firmware update (prob around March).
> 
> You can still brew no problems, but saving recipes isn't as it should be just yet.
> 
> I'm still learning the system, so it's hard for me to comment just yet. Very disappointed with my efforts with the short malt pipe yesterday. Ridiculous limits on that thing.


I'm curious, what are the limits/ what's frustrating about it?


----------



## Spiesy

lael said:


> I'm curious, what are the limits/ what's frustrating about it?


Due to the way the system works, there is a maximum of grain you can add to each malt pipe as well as a minimum and maximum amount of water. 

For the short malt pipe in the 50L, the published limit is 5.5kgs of grain. There are ways around this apparently.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Spiesy said:


> Due to the way the system works, there is a maximum of grain you can add to each malt pipe as well as a minimum and maximum amount of water.
> 
> For the short malt pipe in the 50L, the published limit is 5.5kgs of grain. There are ways around this apparently.


The new software cares about the amount of grain and water?


----------



## Spiesy

Mr. No-Tip said:


> The new software cares about the amount of grain and water?


Not as far as I know. No mention of software in what you quoted.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Right, so your comment was just in regards to the general limitation of the small malt pipe? I think it helps to think of it as a 20l malt pipe.


----------



## reddog

My 2015 model arrived yesterday very impressed with the build quality and the new controller is nice.

Not sure how they are going to implement the WiFi as for what I can tell there is no signal coming out of the unit.

Anyone thinking of getting the new model because of the WiFi option might want to hold off until we are sure it available.


----------



## Blind Dog

lael said:


> I'm curious, what are the limits/ what's frustrating about it?


only limit is your imagination in getting to a solution, or your ability to coopt others ideas


----------



## NT.Thunder

Picked up my 2015 Braumeister a few weeks back and after finally getting all the other gear together I kicked it in the guts on Sunday and made my first AG brew.

Now I haven't AG brewed before or extract for nearly 10 years so I was a little nervous about brew day, but the BM made the day enjoyable and relatively simple.

Made a IPA SMaSH with Cascade hops just to keep it simple. Was supposed to be 5kg of JW pale malt and .5kg Caramalt, but the bill grain was slightly under so I guess we see how it turns out. The recipe (beersmith2) had a OG of 1.062 and I measured 1.060 right on 20l. 

Mashed in with 25l and sparged with just over 6l using a 90min boil so quantities seemed to add up right on target. I think efficiency was somewhere around 77% which hopefully improves with experience.

Only real concern I has was the amount of trub after the boil and the fact that even after trying to whirlpool I dropped it straight into the fermenter.......Ooops! Maybe I'll rack it into a secondary fermentation vessel to clear it up.

I was pretty impressed with my wort chiller I made, standard immersion coil but had about 40l of chilled water and 2 bags of ice in 60l bucket with submersed pond pump and dropped it to 22 in 15minutes.

Everything seemed to go well, have been doing a lot of reading and asking plenty of questions from those in the know which helped and looking forward to the next brew day.

Currently sitting in the fridge (STC1000) keeping temp around 20 degrees and hopefully it's happy.

Only thing I'd like to know is what peoples preference is for sanitising, currently using Proxitane which smells a bit potent. Might look for some StarSan. Also, what do people use to clean their BM. I gave it a good rinse and then ran some pink TSP through it, just a slight dose and then gave it a good rinse and flush through the Pp.


----------



## Ckilner

I use Starsan which I mix with distilled water and store in a sealed bucket. As long as the pH is below 3.0 then it's fine and can be re-used many times.
I've tried a few methods to clean my BM and the best one is to rinse it after use and wash out as best I can and then fill with hot water to the brim and add 75g PBW then leave overnight. Empty, rinse and a quick wipe round with a sponge does the trick.


----------



## reddog

I use Starsan and absolutely love the stuff, for many years I used iodaphore but with Starsan I don't have to worry about all my equipment turning brown.

I purchase the cheap 4l bottles of distilled water and mix it straight into the bottle then I fill my spray bottle from that using distilled water it lasts for months.

It is a no rinse sterilizer and in the several years that I have been using it I have not had an infection.


----------



## Spiesy

I use PBW and hot water to clean, StarSan to sanitise. 

I was cleaning with sodium percarbonate, wasn't getting the results I wanted. Grabbed some Five Star PBW, mixed with water, heated the water in the Brau and ran the pump for a while, giving it a bit of a wipe with a soft cloth throughout. Spotless.


----------



## doon

Yeah pbw with hot water for 30 minutes comes up sparkling. I upped temp to over 70 and it worked great


----------



## Sean_72

New 50l arrived couple weeks ago, I brew beer for the office we have a kegerator in the kitchen at work and have semi regular Friday beers, boss gave it to me as a bonus, happy days :super: .

Finally got my 15 amp power point in and had a play Monday just gone. Day was longer, mainly due to my screw up below, but being able to step mash and with more automation there are no complaints from me.

Lesson one - don't forget to put the base filter in the malt pipe before adding grain.............was kicking my arse around the shed for 10 minutes until coming up with a recovery plan, probably only put in about a kg of grain if that but what a pain in the arse. Several buckets filled with all the water and grain from within the machine, gave her a clean out, including pumps, put the cleaner water in first then the malt pipe THEN the base filters and gently refilled her with the rest of the water and grain. Adjusted the sparge water with he additional water I used to get the bits of grain out of the buckets.

In the end, still hit my numbers, so very lucky, but not so clever. Think I will ensure the filters are in clear site of the Braumeister next brew, not that I will forget again.

My only problem is I only have room for two fermenters in my fermentation fridge and only so many kegs, limits the amount of times I can brew, which is why I wanted the 50l but as with all new toys, I want to play


----------



## Crusty

Am I reading this right?
You brew for the lads at work & have a few on Friday's, you have a kegerator in the work kitchen that was given to you by the boss??? 
Holy cow! Boss of the year. Who is this man? Where the **** do you work man, at the facebook office or what? You are one lucky employee.
Great that you rescued the brew & I've recently forgot to add my fine top screen but aborted just as the liquid was starting to flow over the malt pipe.
It's a mistake you'll only make once after giving yourself an uppercut. Happy days ahead & enjoy the new rig.


----------



## Black n Tan

I read it as his boss gave him the 50L Brau. Even more awesome.


----------



## Crusty

Black n Tan said:


> I read it as his boss gave him the 50L Brau. Even more awesome.


You gotta be kiddin me....


----------



## wide eyed and legless

(NT Thunder quote.)Only thing I'd like to know is what peoples preference is for sanitising, currently using Proxitane which smells a bit potent. Might look for some StarSan. Also, what do people use to clean their BM. I gave it a good rinse and then ran some pink TSP through it, just a slight dose and then gave it a good rinse and flush through the Pp.(end quote) 
Nothing wrong with proxitane as long as it is kept in the fridge and when mixed use within the hour. Oh and don't have a piss if you notice a white film on your fingers after using it, you will end up with a very raw dick.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

There's a big to and fro about cleanining a couple pages up.


----------



## NT.Thunder

wide eyed and legless said:


> (NT Thunder quote.)Only thing I'd like to know is what peoples preference is for sanitising, currently using Proxitane which smells a bit potent. Might look for some StarSan. Also, what do people use to clean their BM. I gave it a good rinse and then ran some pink TSP through it, just a slight dose and then gave it a good rinse and flush through the Pp.(end quote)
> Nothing wrong with proxitane as long as it is kept in the fridge and when mixed use within the hour. Oh and don't have a piss if you notice a white film on your fingers after using it, you will end up with a very raw dick.


interesting and thanks for that. I've got it stored in the cupboard and the bottle does have a breather in it. I also mixed a litre spray bottle which is also stored in the cupboard and I use it as a no rinse spray, is this no good?

I did buy some StarSan to use but I was going to use up all the Proxitane first.

Good tip also for looking after the ol fella. I have previously learnt the hard way (no pun intended) with some pretty nasty chillis


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Yes it is good as a no rinse, but do not spray, if you are cleaning bottles rinse one bottle and pour it into the next and so on.


----------



## Sean_72

Third brew with the BM, got to the boil stage and timer seemed to go a little early, my first hop addition was scheduled at 10 minutes, when the alarm went to add the first addition the BM was still only at 94.5, hot break had barely formed. Aborted and went manual, tad annoying, anyone else had this problem, didn't happen on my first two brews and the temp was set for 102.


----------



## Sean_72

Brew number four with the BM, feel a little silly but discovered the new BM temp controller goes up to 103, after reading all the previous posts and everyone saying make sure it is set to 102 I didn't bother going any further :unsure: .

Didn't have the issue with the timer going early, actually sat at 99.5 for a bit before starting, even flashed up to 100 a couple times and I didn't see it drop below 99.5, happy days.


----------



## zoigl

Have you got a camp mattress insulation jacket?


----------



## Sean_72

Yes, I have the insulation jacket, wasn't an overly cold day (from memory) when the timer went early.

Was thinking about getting the hood but will see how she goes on a really cold day, I am in Canberra so plenty of those coming up.


----------



## Goose

Happened to be in Portland Oregon last week where they held the annual Craft Brewers Conference (CBC). Came across this...





Yours for a mere circa 23,000 Eu ex Germany...

In case you were wondering the bloke of the left is mr Stefan Speidel. I wonder if any connection ... B)


----------



## NT.Thunder

First off let me say I'm an idiot. Have been planning my second brew on the 20l Braumeister, a Little Creatures IPA clone which I was really excited about, but not so much now. I worked it all out on BeerSmith and as I'm so new to this BM it didn't even occur to me until I received the grainbill that I'm going to have issues stuffing it all down the malt pipe.

So grain billis 6.3kg for a 20l batch. I've used a recipe found on here and scaled it down so the Est OG, IBU, Color and ABV (6.8%) match; however I've got myself into a bit of a pickle.

Whats the most grain anyone has been able to use 5.5 Kg maybe? As the grain has already been mixed (5kg Pale Ale | 1kg Munich Dark | .3 Cararye) as I purchased it online, I guess it's going to be a little of a surprise surprise batch.

Any thoughts on what I can do or should do apart from pay more attention when putting recipes together. Maybe mash in 2 parts?


----------



## doon

Ive mashed in with over 6 before. Efficiency will drop somewhat


----------



## Frag_Dog

doon said:


> Ive mashed in with over 6 before. Efficiency will drop somewhat


I've done over 6 as well in my 20L. I added the grain at room temp and stirred it in before starting the pump. Extend the mash out and you hopefully won't get too much of a drop in efficiency. I also used some DME to bump up my OG to ensure I was at my target.


----------



## Blind Dog

6.3kg will fit. I've done more (but not by much) but found a big reduction in efficiency if I don't adjust my mash schedule. So to compensate I've found that 

1. mashing in warm (40C) for a while helps. I set this as my mash in temp and then let it sit there for 15 min or so after adding the crushed grain, stirring a few times as the BM tells me to fill the malt pipe, then setting it off and running for my chosen mash schedule

2. extended mash out (for big grain bills I mashout at 78C overnight) really helps. I set the mashout at 78 for 20 min, press the button once to stop the beeping, but leave the malt pipe in there with the lid on. The BM maintains the temp until I lift the malt pipe the following morning and commence the boil.

For much more grain than 6kg, I use a reiterated mash, but that's getting off topic.

If you're worried about space, you can flip the top plate upside down, add a nut or washers (12mm thread) so there's still a space between the plate and the bar that holds the malt pipe in place, and clamp down as usual

(Idea 2 and flipping the top plate are shamelessly stolen from Dicko)


----------



## NT.Thunder

Wow, that's great news. I was expecting a drop in efficiency with higher grain bills but wasn't expecting to pack 6.3kgs in. Might look at the overnight mashout, maybe start Saturday night and finish Sunday as planned.

Thanks for the tips


----------



## NT.Thunder

Blind Dog said:


> 6.3kg will fit. I've done more (but not by much) but found a big reduction in efficiency if I don't adjust my mash schedule. So to compensate I've found that
> 
> 1. mashing in warm (40C) for a while helps. I set this as my mash in temp and then let it sit there for 15 min or so after adding the crushed grain, stirring a few times as the BM tells me to fill the malt pipe, then setting it off and running for my chosen mash schedule
> 
> 2. extended mash out (for big grain bills I mashout at 78C overnight) really helps. I set the mashout at 78 for 20 min, press the button once to stop the beeping, but leave the malt pipe in there with the lid on. The BM maintains the temp until I lift the malt pipe the following morning and commence the boil.
> 
> For much more grain than 6kg, I use a reiterated mash, but that's getting off topic.
> 
> If you're worried about space, you can flip the top plate upside down, add a nut or washers (12mm thread) so there's still a space between the plate and the bar that holds the malt pipe in place, and clamp down as usual
> 
> (Idea 2 and flipping the top plate are shamelessly stolen from Dicko)


Blind Dog - If I mash out at step 2 overnight like suggested, hit the button to stop beeping and leave the lid on. Does the recirc Pp and heaters run all night to maintain 78


----------



## NT.Thunder

Another question I have regarding the BM is racking to fermentor and avoiding all the trub.

My first beer ended up with a lot of trub and crap after the boil from the hop additions and as I wasn't to careful when racking it from the tap to fermentor alot of this ended up in it. I tried to whirlpool but not sure if I was doing it right or it was just not effective in the BM, do people usually whirlpool with success?

Do people just throw the hop pellets in or use a hop bag? I used a hop bag for dry hopping but not during the boil.

After fermentation the beer was very clear; however had a bitterness which wasn't overpowering but didn't seem right. I'll admit that I don't like oerly bitter beers that much so without a benchmark I couldn't compare it too anything. I dont know if it was astringency as even though it has a bitter taste, it's still drinkable but certainly not a session beer. The fermentation period seemed pretty quick, maybe 2 days before the activity in the airlock stopped.

The beer was a SMaSH IPA 49IBU - 55gm Cascade at 60 - 28gm Cascade 15 - 28gm Cascade 0 with dry hop Cascade 7 days.

Does anyone autosiphon from the top into their fermentor? Do people use filters?


----------



## Blind Dog

NT.Thunder said:


> Blind Dog - If I mash out at step 2 overnight like suggested, hit the button to stop beeping and leave the lid on. Does the recirc Pp and heaters run all night to maintain 78


Yes. I leave a towel wrapped around the base as well as the lid drips a bit


----------



## dicko

NT.Thunder said:


> First off let me say I'm an idiot. Have been planning my second brew on the 20l Braumeister, a Little Creatures IPA clone which I was really excited about, but not so much now. I worked it all out on BeerSmith and as I'm so new to this BM it didn't even occur to me until I received the grainbill that I'm going to have issues stuffing it all down the malt pipe.
> 
> So grain billis 6.3kg for a 20l batch. I've used a recipe found on here and scaled it down so the Est OG, IBU, Color and ABV (6.8%) match; however I've got myself into a bit of a pickle.
> 
> Whats the most grain anyone has been able to use 5.5 Kg maybe? As the grain has already been mixed (5kg Pale Ale | 1kg Munich Dark | .3 Cararye) as I purchased it online, I guess it's going to be a little of a surprise surprise batch.
> 
> Any thoughts on what I can do or should do apart from pay more attention when putting recipes together. Maybe mash in 2 parts?


Have a read of this post http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/57118-braumeister-tips-tricks/page-42#entry1265496
Post number 836.

I made a Doppelbock on my 20 l BM with 7 kilos of grain.

A little bit more work but it can be done.


----------



## Bridges

Ok seems like the new controller is available as an upgrade in some places. Canada for instance. Not sure its worth it as most of the new features, link to smart phone app, wifi etc don't seem to be going yet. Seems pretty exxy and opens the whole what would you do with the old controller question. Spose you'd get a few bucks for them from d.i.y. builders. Any word if they are coming here?


----------



## Black n Tan

Yes they are coming here but not sure when. It would be a swap-out arrangement to stop the re-sellign of the controller to DYI-ers.


----------



## razz

I got my tax return recently so I lashed out and purchased a 50lt BM from GnG at their birthday sale this week. Just organising a sparky mate to install the 15amp circuit. :super:


----------



## Blind Dog

Enjoy.


----------



## Crusty

razz said:


> I got my tax return recently so I lashed out and purchased a 50lt BM from GnG at their birthday sale this week. Just organising a sparky mate to install the 15amp circuit. :super:


Welcome aboard razz.
One of the best investments you'll make to your brewing arsenal.
Don't be concerned about the somewhat simmering boil on the new machine. You don't need to blast the wort out of the kettle which I once thought was necessary.
Enjoy mate....... :beerbang:


----------



## razz

Old habits die hard Crusty, I regularly hit 8lts per hour in my 3V system. I wonder what I can get the BM up to, 104 degrees maybe?


----------



## paulyman

razz said:


> I got my tax return recently so I lashed out and purchased a 50lt BM from GnG at their birthday sale this week. Just organising a sparky mate to install the 15amp circuit. :super:


Holy crap, that's some tax return! 

If I got one I think I'd wait until tax time too and tell the wife it was paid for through my tax return.


----------



## dicko

Just bought a short malt pipe for my 20 litre model, mainly for the reson of doing small batches for testing recipes.

Going to give it its first run this morning and For the test run I am just going to halve all my ingredients from a normal recipe but maintain the boil off and the grain absorption figures.
From the results today I will begin to build an Equipment Profile for the small pipe in Beersmith.


----------



## Coalminer

dicko said:


> Just bought a short malt pipe for my 20 litre model, mainly for the reson of doing small batches for testing recipes.
> 
> Going to give it its first run this morning and For the test run I am just going to halve all my ingredients from a normal recipe but maintain the boil off and the grain absorption figures.
> From the results today I will begin to build an Equipment Profile for the small pipe in Beersmith.


Dicko
I have done this a few time and found my boil-off rates to increase by about 25% - 28% due to smaller starting volume


----------



## dicko

Thanks for the tip Coalminer,

I put some figures through Beersmith last nite and the software increased the boil off automatically and when I noticed this I began to wonder about what you said. I used the scale recipe function.
I am not on my desktop now, but from memory it went from boil off 11.2% to around 19%.

I fugure if the OG is too high I can add the extra water but long term I would like to have my software spot on to be able to achieve repeatability.
Over time I will report back on here of my results


----------



## wobbly

Surely the volume you boil off for a given heat input will generally stay the same but will indicate an increased figure when expressed as a percentage of the starting volume

eg. 4lt boil off in 34lts equals 11.7%
Where as the same 4lt boil off in 17lts equals 23.5%

Wobbly


----------



## danestead

razz said:


> Old habits die hard Crusty, I regularly hit 8lts per hour in my 3V system. I wonder what I can get the BM up to, 104 degrees maybe?


Maybe if you live under the ocean.

On a slightly different note, I bought a 500w over the side type element for my 20L braumeister. I used it yesterday. I got about 4L/hr boil off compared to 3.1L/hr normally. The wort boiled crazy around the element but I'm not sure I'm a fan. I don't think I'll use it again. I think for best effect, you are better off getting a 2400w element built into the bottom to replace the original.


----------



## danestead

wobbly said:


> Surely the volume you boil off for a given heat input will generally stay the same but will indicate an increased figure when expressed as a percentage of the starting volume
> 
> eg. 4lt boil off in 34lts equals 11.7%
> Where as the same 4lt boil off in 17lts equals 23.5%
> 
> Wobbly


You are correct in what you say about it percentage wise however I would tend to disagree that the actual volume boiled off per hour stays the same. Because the boil is only really a simmer when you do a full batch, with a half size batch I would expect more surface agitation due to a stronger boil and a resulting increase in the boil off volume per hour in litres.


----------



## wobbly

danestead said:


> You are correct in what you say about it percentage wise however I would tend to disagree that the actual volume boiled off per hour stays the same. Because the boil is only really a simmer when you do a full batch, with a half size batch I would expect more surface agitation due to a stronger boil and a resulting increase in the boil off volume per hour in litres.


I did make a qualification by stating "Generally"

Maybe there's a case if boiling a smaller volume in say the 20lt Braumeister to set the temperature controller to say 100C or 101C instead of the 102C

Wobbly


----------



## danestead

wobbly said:


> I did make a qualification by stating "Generally"
> 
> Maybe there's a case if boiling a smaller volume in say the 20lt Braumeister to set the temperature controller to say 100C or 101C instead of the 102C
> 
> Wobbly


Hmm Im not sure about the whole setting the temperature lower. The reason it is encouraged to set it at 102c is because in a standard atmosphere, the wort will never reach 102c and the element will stay on constantly which is what you want. If you set it to say 100c, it may turn on and off temporarily which I dont think would be ideal.

Im not having a dig at you, just expressing my thoughts.


----------



## wobbly

No offence taken - Just throwing up possible discussion points/thoughts

I will get my 20lt BM out today and see what happens boil wise with plain tap water if I set the temp to 100C with only 17lts (half my normal boil vol) and observe the boil action and evaporation rate

Conditions

No malt pipe
home made insulated cover (carpet)
"Dickos" style SS Bowel Hood in place
Wobbly


----------



## tiprya

Yeah, the water never 'reaches' 102, and I strongly doubt setting it to 102 instead of 100 increases the power to the element. The higher setting just ensures the element never turns off in boil mode.

I leave the lid half-on and get a good rolling boil. Have been considering getting a hood for my 20L, but will be harder to remove than taking the lid off.


----------



## wobbly

OK The results are in.

I started with 17lt (17kg weighed) of tap water in the BM at 47C ex the HWS
Jacket on the BM
Dickos Hood on
Set mash schedule to all zeros and boil schedule to 60 mins at 100C so BM would function on auto
During boil phase heating element cycled ON/OFF at 81% ON - 18% OFF ratio. This was checked/taken over 6 min time period by counting the "BM Flashing Timer" and noting when the Heater light was ON and when it was OFF
At the end of the boil time (60mins) the remaining water was reweighed at 14.651kg (14.651lts)
Evaporation rate = 17 minus 14.651 = 2.349kg (lts) or 13.8%
So the next question to understand is are Coalminers "Boil Off" rates above the result of setting the boil temperature to 102C?

Next question is what/how much is an acceptable target "Boil Off" rate. The Institute of Brewing publication "The Function of Boiling Wort" (unable to attach the PDF link here??) talks about traditional boils lengths being of 90 mins and 10% minimum evaporation and then goes on to say that modern kettle designs operate with 60 min boils and evaporation rates of between 5 and 9%
From my observation of the BM during this test was that to achieve a boil off (evaporation rate) of between 5 and 9% it would be a very very gentle boil with minimal movement of the surface of the wort

I guess the above Institute of Brewing publication raises the age old question about the need or otherwise of a "vigorous/aggressive boil"

In view of this it would appear that it would be acceptable to set the BM temperature to 100C and achieve boil off rates of around the 12 to 14%

Open for discussion

Wobbly


----------



## razz

Hi all. I'm getting the required 15 amp outlet installed into my brew cave. Have other forum members had a dedicated circuit installed (from board to outlet) or just a 15 amp outlet fitted to an existing circuit? Thanks gang.


----------



## dicko

I was actually surprised how much more vigorous the boil was with the smaller volume.

I am wondering can the hood only allow a certain amount of boil off...???

My pre boil volume was 17.4 litres but this only produced 11.5 litres into the fermenter when I took into account loss in the kettle.
This amount will be too small as I want to fill a 12 litre keg most times when I use the short pipe.

Over 80 mins I boiled off 4.9 litres which is an extra half a litre over my 20 litre volume figures.

This is only my first brew so I will be taking accurate figures over the next few times I use the short pipe and will report back here.
I will need to get my final volume spot on before I will determine the exact boil off figure as it obviously is affected by the pre boil volume.

I also had thoughts about cutting the boil temp set point down a degree to possibly achieve the same boil off rate.
This may make a difference to the melanoiden profile of the finished wort or I could be just over thinking the whole process. :unsure:


----------



## real_beer

razz said:


> Hi all. I'm getting the required 15 amp outlet installed into my brew cave. Have other forum members had a dedicated circuit installed (from board to outlet) or just a 15 amp outlet fitted to an existing circuit? Thanks gang.


razz, an electrician will install a new circuit breaker in your fuse box and then run a new cable to your cave. If you have a tiled roof they often slide a few tiles up and run the cable along the eaves, that's what they did when I had one installed in the garage.


----------



## razz

Thanks real_beer. I figured as much but one of my workmates thought it could be installed on an existing circuit.


----------



## Dan2

razz said:


> Thanks real_beer. I figured as much but one of my workmates thought it could be installed on an existing circuit.


Each 15A outlet must have it's own circuit/breaker


----------



## Coalminer

wobbly said:


> OK The results are in.
> 
> I started with 17lt (17kg weighed) of tap water in the BM at 47C ex the HWS
> Jacket on the BM
> Dickos Hood on
> Set mash schedule to all zeros and boil schedule to 60 mins at 100C so BM would function on auto
> During boil phase heating element cycled ON/OFF at 81% ON - 18% OFF ratio. This was checked/taken over 6 min time period by counting the "BM Flashing Timer" and noting when the Heater light was ON and when it was OFF
> At the end of the boil time (60mins) the remaining water was reweighed at 14.651kg (14.651lts)
> Evaporation rate = 17 minus 14.651 = 2.349kg (lts) or 13.8%
> So the next question to understand is are Coalminers "Boil Off" rates above the result of setting the boil temperature to 102C?
> Next question is what/how much is an acceptable target "Boil Off" rate. The Institute of Brewing publication "The Function of Boiling Wort" (unable to attach the PDF link here??) talks about traditional boils lengths being of 90 mins and 10% minimum evaporation and then goes on to say that modern kettle designs operate with 60 min boils and evaporation rates of between 5 and 9%
> From my observation of the BM during this test was that to achieve a boil off (evaporation rate) of between 5 and 9% it would be a very very gentle boil with minimal movement of the surface of the wort
> 
> I guess the above Institute of Brewing publication raises the age old question about the need or otherwise of a "vigorous/aggressive boil"
> 
> In view of this it would appear that it would be acceptable to set the BM temperature to 100C and achieve boil off rates of around the 12 to 14%
> 
> Open for discussion
> 
> Wobbly



Yes - 102C


----------



## Cervantes

dicko said:


> I was actually surprised how much more vigorous the boil was with the smaller volume.
> 
> I am wondering can the hood only allow a certain amount of boil off...???
> 
> My pre boil volume was 17.4 litres but this only produced 11.5 litres into the fermenter when I took into account loss in the kettle.
> This amount will be too small as I want to fill a 12 litre keg most times when I use the short pipe.
> 
> Over 80 mins I boiled off 4.9 litres which is an extra half a litre over my 20 litre volume figures.
> 
> This is only my first brew so I will be taking accurate figures over the next few times I use the short pipe and will report back here.
> I will need to get my final volume spot on before I will determine the exact boil off figure as it obviously is affected by the pre boil volume.
> 
> I also had thoughts about cutting the boil temp set point down a degree to possibly achieve the same boil off rate.
> This may make a difference to the melanoiden profile of the finished wort or I could be just over thinking the whole process. :unsure:


Dicko,

Do have a Beersmith Equipment Profile for the 20L with short malt pipe that you'd care to share?

Had the short Malt Pipe for a while now, but haven't got around to playing with it.

Thanks


----------



## dicko

Cervantes said:


> Dicko,
> 
> Do have a Beersmith Equipment Profile for the 20L with short malt pipe that you'd care to share?
> 
> Had the short Malt Pipe for a while now, but haven't got around to playing with it.
> 
> Thanks


Andy, I have only done one brew with it so nothing really accurate yet.

The figures above will give you around 10 litres bottling or kegging which may suit some people.

My mash efficiency remained the same but the boil off increased.

More to come as I do more brews.


----------



## Cervantes

Thanks Dicko


----------



## Sean_72

Grain bed not even - I have brewed 9 beers in my BM and had no issue (if it is an issue) with the grain bed with the first 7. With the first 7 brews, when I lifted the fine and coarse mesh filters off the top i found the grain bed was flat and even across the top, but last two brews the grain bed has been uneven, one side flat while the other is uneven, like it is washed out, if that helps the picture.

No issues with efficiency, wort appears to be flowing across the top evenly during recirculation. 

Anyone experienced the same, any ideas, should I be concerned?

Cheers,

Sean


----------



## real_beer

I don't know if this is the reason, but maybe your malt pipe was tightened down a little off centre and was enough to stop the filter plates from moving freely up and down inside it. If the grain was then moving about more than normal the wort coming into the pipe under the plate might be pushing the grain to one side. It's only a guess I might be totally off the mark. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Charst

razz said:


> I got my tax return recently so I lashed out and purchased a 50lt BM from GnG at their birthday sale this week. Just organising a sparky mate to install the 15amp circuit. :super:


The Fate's aligned for me too Razz, Tax return arrived in bank the monday the sale began. My new best friend is a 20lt named Lars.


----------



## Wolfman

Charst said:


> The Fate's aligned for me too Razz, Tax return arrived in bank the monday the sale began. My new best friend is a 20lt named Lars.


Welcome to the club mate.


----------



## Charst

Wolfman said:


> Welcome to the club mate.


Cheers, Shed Build is on the way and I should be up and running in a month or so.
Made only a couple beers in the last 12 months its been a long time coming.


----------



## Sean_72

real_beer said:


> I don't know if this is the reason, but maybe your malt pipe was tightened down a little off centre and was enough to stop the filter plates from moving freely up and down inside it. If the grain was then moving about more than normal the wort coming into the pipe under the plate might be pushing the grain to one side. It's only a guess I might be totally off the mark. :icon_cheers:


Food for thought, I will look at that next brew, another thought I had was one of the pumps not working, I don't think it is the case but I will check that next time I brew as well.


----------



## razz

Woohoo! Power circuit installed this morning and I picked up a chain and ratchet from a mate for hoisting the grain. Brewing this Friday.


----------



## razz

I had the most boring, uneventful brew day ever yesterday. [emoji3] The main problem for the day was the amount of break after chilling in the kettle, 8 lts, and I allowed for 4 lts. I need to fashion a pickup for the inside of the tap. Anyone fancy sharing their ideas please?


----------



## Howlingdog

For 20L BM leaves 250ml in bottom


----------



## Charst

Hey Howling Dog and all,

First batch done with the brau and altough easy i dont want to be leaning the thing over every time. 

re your pickup I assume you didn't have any trouble with this sealing up ok? I tried a 12.7mm wide bit of copper and some silcone tube ((to fit half inch bsp) as shown) and it was just marginally loose. I was thinking of soldering a Copper olive to the tube to make a little bump Ala the MHB pickup posted previously.

Ok to solder copper and have it in the boiling wort? how did you joint your bits?
Can anyone tell me how you put the little bump in otherwise so i dont have to solder. cheers


----------



## MHB

Its called a Crox, to make them you need a croxing tool, it actually stretches the tube out from the inside to form the bump.



A frigging good set of 1/2" benders (I use specialised SS instrument tube benders, bending SS tube is hard work) and a bit of practice with both wouldn't go astray.
PM me and I might be able to knock one up for you
Mark


----------



## razz

I had the same problem Charst so I thought I would put a straight connector into the silicone to make a tight fit.


----------



## Howlingdog

I have two types of tube one is a loose fit, the other has thicker wall and is very snug.


----------



## Charst

razz said:


> I had the same problem Charst so I thought I would put a straight connector into the silicone to make a tight fit.





MHB said:


> Its called a Crox, to make them you need a croxing tool, it actually stretches the tube out from the inside to form the bump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crox.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> bender.jpg
> A frigging good set of 1/2" benders (I use specialised SS instrument tube benders, bending SS tube is hard work) and a bit of practice with both wouldn't go astray.
> PM me and I might be able to knock one up for you
> Mark



Pm'd Mark, I went to bunnings last night and got 5 odd options for how I could make this thing and by the time id priced out all the tools and bits to bend, stretch or solder the copper, it'd be cheaper to have someone skilled make a decent one rather than Butchery Bills efforts over here.


Razz did you just add the connecter to the tube, no soldering?

I found little copper caps for 127.7mm tube last night and that would have probably added the additional diameter required, less than the olive which looks like it may make the silicone too tight.


----------



## razz

I will pick up a connector in the morning. I plan to solder it all together so it won't be dislodged when I lift the malt pipe. I did hold the pieces together with short sections of silicone and they were reasonably tight.


----------



## Crusty

That's a shitload of break/trub razz. I tip my BM at the end to get out what's left under the ball valve & I'm only left with around 2lts or so.


----------



## razz

Hey Crusty, I tipped for a little extra but was trying to leave the break behind. It's the 50 model and the height of the inlet to the tap is about 55mm from the base. Both breaks were reasonable size, the cold was probably a bit bigger as the chiller dropped the wort to 17 degrees in 30 minutes. Having the pump running from 84 degrees made a huge difference compared to my other system.


----------



## real_beer

razz said:


> Woohoo! Power circuit installed this morning and I picked up a chain and ratchet from a mate for hoisting the grain. Brewing this Friday.


It's amazing how a power point can get a bloke so excited isn't it :lol:

I was on an American brewing forum the other week and someone provided a link to a hunters lifter they use to lift their grain bag, looks pretty good:

http://www.amazon.com/Hunters-Specialties-Lift-System-Gambrel/dp/B003RY9YIU


----------



## razz

Howling Dog, thanks for the pics of your pick-up in the kettle. I've fitted mine and it works a treat. I added ten litres of tap water to the kettle and it only just covers the copper pipe. After I drained the kettle I had one litre left. I'm happy with that.


----------



## Howlingdog

Glad it worked for you. I think I'll get somme SS pipe and smick it up.


----------



## WitWonder

Guys can anyone provide some tips for efficiency increases with the BM? Been using ours for a while now and seem to struggle to get much more than 70% efficiency. My mash schedule these days is mash in at 52, 60 minutes at 65, 20 at 72 and 15 at 78. Going on today's numbers I ended up with 45L in the fermenter (plus about 1.5L losses) at 1.044 with 11.5kg of grain - to me that's about 58% efficiency which is pi$$ poor. I don't typically stop and stir the grainbed during mashing (haven't noticed efficiency differences to justify) and my crush seems fairly fine, not sure what the gap is on my Crankenstein. I do sometimes note when emptying out the malt pipe there seems to be some malt in there which hasn't come in to contact with water, does anyone else see that? Only thing I did differently today was did the crush directly into the malt pipe, then lifted and dropped the full malt pipe straight into the kettle. Worked great except do think it impacted efficiency.


----------



## razz

The way I read that bit about how you doughed in WW I'd say that's the problem. Sounds like dry pockets of malt. I think using the 38 degrees rest helps get the malt fully wet before starting the other rests. I leave the mash standing for ten minutes at 38 to make sure it's properly wetted through.


----------



## wobbly

Do you visit the Braumeister Forum if not here's a link to the main page https://forum.braumeisters.net/

There are a number of topics on Brew Efficiency and how to improve it

Wobbly


----------



## Blind Dog

A reasonable rest, preferably stirring, at somewhere between 35 and 45 helps to make sure the graisn are properly hydrated

Overnight mash out helps efficiency by a fair but (mash as normal, program a 10 minute mash out at 78, press the button once to stop the beeping and get the 'lift maltpipe' message, place a towel on the bench top (lid is on already and drips) and leave it until the morning)


----------



## Cervantes

If your crush is fine it could also be affecting your efficiency. The general rule seems to be to go for a mill gap of about 1.2 mm.

Also are you talking about mash efficiency or brewhouse efficiency? There can be a big difference.


----------



## Wolfman

Sounds like dough balls. 

I've found mashing in at 36 pouring half the malt in and stir. Then pour the other half in taking time to stir the malt thoroughly does the trick. Also to ensure you have enough water in the malt pipe. I find the water level is to low so I open the valve and catch the water in a jug and pour that into the malt pipe. This way you can ensure that the consistancy of the mash inside the malt pipe is soupy rather than thick. 

Then press the go button and your away. 

Also make sure the plates are centered on the rod so the malt inside the pipe can move up and down freely.


----------



## RobW

Some nice Braumeister parts here from Italy:

http://www.bacbrewing.com/epages/990497525.sf/it_IT/?ObjectPath=/Shops/990497525/Categories/Braumeister_BM20

Bulk buy maybe?


----------



## Cervantes

RobW said:


> Some nice Braumeister parts here from Italy:
> 
> http://www.bacbrewing.com/epages/990497525.sf/it_IT/?ObjectPath=/Shops/990497525/Categories/Braumeister_BM20
> 
> Bulk buy maybe?


I'd be up for one of these, but not at 58 Euros


----------



## Howlingdog

Cervantes said:


> I'd be up for one of these, but not at 58 Euros


+ delivery costs but if you like SS then you pays for what you get.


----------



## wobbly

Somewhere in the past 12-18 months (maybe longer) I saw a post (not sure what site) detailing how someone had adapted the malt pipe for smaller (half sized) batches by drilling/punching some holes in the malt pipe about half way up and using an extension tube under the clamp bar so as to hold the top plate/screen at the lower level.

When they wanted to do full size batches they had some sort of silicon/rubber band that was a tight fit around the outside of the malt pipe to cover and seal the hole and thereby allow the full volume once again

Did any one else see or know of this and if so could they point me to where it was

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Coalminer

https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=101&p=741&hilit=short+malt+pipe+holes#p742


----------



## Crusty

wobbly said:


> Somewhere in the past 12-18 months (maybe longer) I saw a post (not sure what site) detailing how someone had adapted the malt pipe for smaller (half sized) batches by drilling/punching some holes in the malt pipe about half way up and using an extension tube under the clamp bar so as to hold the top plate/screen at the lower level.
> 
> When they wanted to do full size batches they had some sort of silicon/rubber band that was a tight fit around the outside of the malt pipe to cover and seal the hole and thereby allow the full volume once again
> 
> Did any one else see or know of this and if so could they point me to where it was
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


It's called a short malt pipe.
Well worth the investment.


----------



## dicko

wobbly said:


> Somewhere in the past 12-18 months (maybe longer) I saw a post (not sure what site) detailing how someone had adapted the malt pipe for smaller (half sized) batches by drilling/punching some holes in the malt pipe about half way up and using an extension tube under the clamp bar so as to hold the top plate/screen at the lower level.
> 
> When they wanted to do full size batches they had some sort of silicon/rubber band that was a tight fit around the outside of the malt pipe to cover and seal the hole and thereby allow the full volume once again
> 
> Did any one else see or know of this and if so could they point me to where it was
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Wobbly,

Just be careful that you get a seal that will seal under the pressure that is in the malt pipe with the pump running when you are back doing a full mash.
I did read somewhere that this can be a problem.......maybe a large s/steel clamp might work but will be a PITA each time you meeded to use it.
I have just got a small pipe and they work well.


----------



## razz

Had my first overnight mash last night, what a joy! I got up at 6:45 and the malt pipe was ready to be lifted. Previous batch kegged and all cleaned up in time to take the wife out for lunch. And "The Speckled Hen" on nitro at Pig & Whistle Arthur's Seat was bloody beautiful!


----------



## Batz

razz said:


> Had my first overnight mash last night, what a joy! I got up at 6:45 and the malt pipe was ready to be lifted. Previous batch kegged and all cleaned up in time to take the wife out for lunch. And "The Speckled Hen" on nitro at Pig & Whistle Arthur's Seat was bloody beautiful!


Great way to brew hey? I always do an overnight mash now.


----------



## micblair

does anyone notice that bright wort becomes cloudy when you pull the malt pipe? My malt screens aren't deformed and my gasket is still in tact.


----------



## razz

Can't say I noticed Micblair, I'll check it out next brew session.


----------



## Black n Tan

I haven't noticed it either. I could imagine if you lifted the malt pipe too quickly using a pulley or similar that you may create a vacuum and pull some cloudiness, but in normal use I haven't seen this.


----------



## micblair

it seems to start as soon as you stop the pump and loosen the wing nut.


----------



## Dan Pratt

micblair said:


> it seems to start as soon as you stop the pump and loosen the wing nut.


dont be to worried about it, you wont notice it in the final beer. sure it would be nice to boil up crystal clear wort but with the BM thats not possible.

The use of whirfloc or some kind of finning agent will see that drop out when you finish the boil and whirlpool before the rest/transfer phase.

If your keen to try a few things, maybe grab a a kitchen strainer and wrap a stocking over it and transfer all the wort into handy pails through the stariner, clean the vessell and add the wort back to the BM. Alot of effort but you will see how much trub/mash particles are actaully in the beer pre boil.


----------



## alfadog

micblair said:


> does anyone notice that bright wort becomes cloudy when you pull the malt pipe? My malt screens aren't deformed and my gasket is still in tact.


I have noticed this issue too. I had always thought it was malt that had gone over the top and through the pump and been stuck on the base of the bottom filter. Hence why you see it when you lift the malt pipe. I just use a SS sieve to filter out the bigger chunks. The Kopperfloc does the rest.


----------



## razz

Not really a guide or problem, more so a solution. I've had my unit for three months or so and used it three times. Tonight I thought I would put it to good use as a sous vide cooker. Not on my Pat Malone there, I'm sure many of you have done the same. Anyway, two nice chicken breasts in glad bags for 80 mins @ 65 degrees and I chucked a few pine nuts and dry basil in the bag as well. Nice chicken, very soft and tender to the tooth and it got a few minutes in the fry pan to give it some colour. It sat nicely atop some mashed spuds with steamed greens and gravy. I'll give some porterhouse cuts a go on the weekend.


----------



## Crusty

razz said:


> Not really a guide or problem, more so a solution. I've had my unit for three months or so and used it three times. Tonight I thought I would put it to good use as a sous vide cooker. Not on my Pat Malone there, I'm sure many of you have done the same. Anyway, two nice chicken breasts in glad bags for 80 mins @ 65 degrees and I chucked a few pine nuts and dry basil in the bag as well. Nice chicken, very soft and tender to the tooth and it got a few minutes in the fry pan to give it some colour. It sat nicely atop some mashed spuds with steamed greens and gravy. I'll give some porterhouse cuts a go on the weekend.


I own two of the original Anova precision cookers & have been doing heaps of stuff sous vide. Chicken breasts are fine @60deg for 60mins.
Salmon portions are incredible at 52deg for 30mins & eggs in the shell @75deg for 15mins. It's a fantastic way to cook & I use this technique at least three times a week. I love it. Got a nice special on too at the moment to clear out the original Anova One models which I have.
Anova sous vide


----------



## danestead

razz said:


> Not really a guide or problem, more so a solution. I've had my unit for three months or so and used it three times. Tonight I thought I would put it to good use as a sous vide cooker. Not on my Pat Malone there, I'm sure many of you have done the same. Anyway, two nice chicken breasts in glad bags for 80 mins @ 65 degrees and I chucked a few pine nuts and dry basil in the bag as well. Nice chicken, very soft and tender to the tooth and it got a few minutes in the fry pan to give it some colour. It sat nicely atop some mashed spuds with steamed greens and gravy. I'll give some porterhouse cuts a go on the weekend.


I have done the same but with eye fillet steak, about half a dozen times. I put the steak between the 2 malt pipe grill type mesh things. Itkeeps them from floating to the surface and stops them from accidentally resting on the heating element.


----------



## Cervantes

danestead said:


> I have done the same but with eye fillet steak, about half a dozen times. I put the steak between the 2 malt pipe grill type mesh things. Itkeeps them from floating to the surface and stops them from accidentally resting on the heating element.


How long and at what temperature do you cook the steaks?


----------



## razz

Crusty said:


> I own two of the original Anova precision cookers & have been doing heaps of stuff sous vide. Chicken breasts are fine @60deg for 60mins.
> Salmon portions are incredible at 52deg for 30mins & eggs in the shell @75deg for 15mins. It's a fantastic way to cook & I use this technique at least three times a week. I love it. Got a nice special on too at the moment to clear out the original Anova One models which I have.
> Anova sous vide


I was just looking at those last night Crusty, I would have bought one in hindsight. The BM will do me fine for the next few meals and I was very surprised how quickly it bought 20 lts up to 65 degrees.


----------



## danestead

Cervantes said:


> How long and at what temperature do you cook the steaks?


The temperature depends on how you like your steak cooked. I think I usually use about 60 or 65ish for medium but I forget. I really should write it down one day when I get it right! Just google meat thermometer temperatures.

I've always done it for an hour or so but I believe you can do it for a shorter period.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I've had my 50l Braumeister for several months now, done about 10 brews and I think every batch has been quite cloudy after whirlpool. There are also some white coagulated bits still floating around, which I scoop out before transferring to a no-chill cube. 
When I whirlpool, I leave it to settle for 20-30 minutes. 

The wort after the mash is very clear.

Initially I put it down to out of date, or a bad batch of whirflock, so I've been using Kopperflock recently, but there has been no noticeable change.

Before I bought the BM, I was doing BIAB in a 40 litre hot water urn and always had very clear wort after whirlpool. My recipes are much the same, just brewing bigger batches.

The beer clears well after fermentation, tastes fine and doesn't have any chill haze, but I would be happier if I could eliminate it. 

Is this a common thing with Braumeisters? I've researched quite a bit and can't really see that it comes up as an issue.

I'm not sure what the cause could be.

Here's a photo I took on my last brew day. This was taken roughly 20 minutes after I had whirl-pooled the wort.


----------



## Crusty

The beer clears well after fermentation, tastes fine and doesn't have any chill haze, but I would be happier if I could eliminate it. 




Here's a photo I took on my last brew day. This was taken roughly 20 minutes after I had whirl-pooled the wort. 






You answered your own question right there.
Cloudiness after removing the malt pipe is normal so don't stress about it.
All my beers are crystal clear at the end of mash & cloudy after removing the malt pipe & during the boil. The whirlfloc takes care of business at the end of the boil & your beers are clear with no chill haze & taste fine. It's the nature of the beast mate & it sounds like your process is spot on. I chill until I cant get the temp to drop any further, remove the chiller & give it a really good manual whirlpool. I put the lid back on &nwalk away for a minimum of 30mins. Crystal clear beer into the fermenter.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

The cloudiness is after I've added whirflock/kopperflock and done a 20-30 min whirlpool.

I know the wort becomes cloudy during the boil, but there's still a lot of stuff in suspension after whirflock and whirlpool, when it should have settled. In my experience of doing BIAB, the wort was very clear at the end of that process.

After I transfer to a cube, it's stored for a month or so and my concern is that if I'm transferring too much hot break into the cube, it could have a detrimental effect on the final product.

My beer does taste fine and maybe it's nothing to stress about, but improvements in process and results are part of being a home brewer and I personally feel that it should be clearer.


----------



## Crusty

Ok, gotcha.
You should be getting clear wort after the whirlpool. Im not sure what's going on to be honest as my wort to the fermenter is crystal clear.


----------



## Roosterboy

This is off topic and I don't have a Braumeister but who services them or fixes them under warranty here in OZ ?


----------



## razz

From the info I gathered before buying one Roosterboy I reckon the few faults people have had have been parts exchanged under warranty. Pumps were a problem early on and I think there has been the odd control unit that would not work, out of the box, and the unit was exchanged by the retailer.


----------



## Roosterboy

Thanks razz, I have no doubt they are quality units and the high price has more to do with currency and freight but if 
I was a brewpub owner thinking of spending $ 22000 or $44000 on one I would want a service engineer at least in 
Australia. I think Speidels should train a local.


----------



## razz

If you are thinking that way then a chat with the boys at Grain & Grape would be the go, they started off with a 200t model and have bought another (maybe 500 lt?)


----------



## Sean_72

Call out to the geeks.
I received my wifi module for the Braumeister, had no problems connecting and updating the Braumeister with the new firmware via my laptop but when trying to connect the Braumeister to my network I keep getting 'Error OAFD'. Any ideas? I have googled OAFD with no luck, Outside Air Floor Duct was the main response.
I have double and triple checked the password I entered, turned the Braumeister on and off, even tried putting the IP address of the router in directly.
Any ideas?


----------



## razz

Perhaps give Grain n Grape a call, they have them in stock and the boys over there a fairly knowledgeable


----------



## kcurnow

Does anyone know what kind of connector the wifi / firmware update port on the gen 2 braumeisters is? It looks to be some sort of Screw in mini DIN fitting. I'm looking to get a cable so I can update my firmware.


----------



## banora brewer

Hi guys, I used to own a 20 ltr braumeister but had to sell it, I'm getting back into brewing, not sure what to get, another braumeister or the grainfather.


----------



## razz

Never had an issue with my BM50 until today. The unit was at 89 degrees and climbing nicely to a boil when I noticed the boil timer had started. I'm guessing that the temp had been steady for two minutes and it did what it is programmed to do. No bigy, I had to abort the program and ran the unit in manual mode.


----------



## Goose

banora brewer said:


> Hi guys, I used to own a 20 ltr braumeister but had to sell it, I'm getting back into brewing, not sure what to get, another braumeister or the grainfather.


I am not really qualified to comment on the GF as I only own a BM, but I will anyway. As I see it the major advantage is the controller on the BM which is pretty much set and forget after dough in to the point of removing the malt pipe prior to the boil, while with the GF you need to manually enter each step after the completion of the last. 

One thing I prefer on the GF though, is the top down flow of wort through the grain bed. This has the advantage filtering the fine particles effectively which stay at the top of the grain bed when the malt pipe is removed. On the BM, the fines are trapped at the bottom of the malt pipe and alot seems to fall back into the wort as soon as the malt pipe is removed. The result is you end up boiling cloudy wort.

Flamesuit on because I know that what is important is the clarity of the wort to the fermenter, not so much the boiler, but I'd still rather be boiling clarified wort which to me is part of what a RIMS system should achieve.


----------



## thewobblythong

razz said:


> Never had an issue with my BM50 until today. The unit was at 89 degrees and climbing nicely to a boil when I noticed the boil timer had started. I'm guessing that the temp had been steady for two minutes and it did what it is programmed to do. No bigy, I had to abort the program and ran the unit in manual mode.


This is a known firmware issue. apparently something to do with it taking too long (slowly) to get to the boil temp, and the unit triggering into boil mode to 'avoid boiling dry'. at least that was what I was told. returned mine to Grain & Grape and they did a free firmware update and it's seemed to fix it.


----------



## Bridges

Ok 20l owners how many of you have seen grain and grapes method for getting 38litres of wort from the 20 which they've had on facebook for a while? You'll see in pics 4 and 5 the handy trivet they use whilst sparging. After a bit of searching I reckon I've tracked it down to ikea. Surprisingly only $5.

One day next week I'm going to be right near an ikea so I'm going to grab myself one. Just putting it out there if anyone else is interested as ikea stores are not everywhere and they don't sell on the web I could probably help out any interested parties. Let me know maybe I'll set up a seperate buy thread. I'd guess post would be around $10 or so.


----------



## Bridges

bumpity bump bump


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I've recently been having issues with the pumps on my 50l BM. The pumps are the blue Vortex ones
. 
I bought the unit second hand about 18 months ago and noticed during the last half dozen batches or so, the pumps had occasionally been making rattling noises, especially at 70 + deg C.
During the last couple of batches, the pumps were struggling to push the wort over the top of the malt pipe at the higher temps.
After eliminating other possible causes, and reading about similar issues on the Braumeister forum, it seemed like either the impellers or pumps were going to need replacing.
I spoke to the good folk at Grain and Grape and decided to replace the impellers, being the cheaper option and all. I Also replaced the gaskets while I was at it.
Well after installing them and running the pumps for a for a while, it seems to have fixed the problem.
I'm not sure if the impellers were damaged in any way by the previous owner, I doubt it, as there were absolutely no visible signs of damage on them, or whether they became a bit unbalanced over time.

Fingers crossed that this has fixed the issue long term.


----------



## reddog

by *crankcasy* » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:25 pm
Hopefully one of you guys will be able to help me out I am trying to update my BM software to 1.23 so it will accept the wifi module and solve the boil timer issue but I keep getting the following error message:

COM7...
COM8...
No supported programmers found

I have tried with two different computers one running Win 7 and the other Win 10 but I always get the say error, does anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Audion

Hi guys,

Small problem.. need to replace the temp.probe but cannot get the nut off from underneath... any tricks?

Thanks,

ken


----------



## Coalminer

Audion said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Small problem.. need to replace the temp.probe but cannot get the nut off from underneath... any tricks?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ken


Hi Ken
Make sure you lubricate the thread before trying to remove the nut
as the stainless parts will seize if they are of any reasonable age
Lubricate the new parts with something like Tef-Gel (expensive but well worth it- get it from a marine shop and the nut will never seize again)
I just replaced my sensor and had heaps of problems until I freed up the old one with WD-40
It seems our German friends don't see the need for anti-seize on S/S
Interestingly Speidel was surprised that I managed to get 88 brews out of the original sensor!
Removal would have been a lot simpler if the new sensor came with a new nut and washer considering the price

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=174&item=59735&intAbsolutePage=

There is another similar cheaper product called Duralac but it dries out after a while and is not as good
but the one linked never dries and is usually used between dissimilar metals such as S/S fittings on an alloy boat


----------



## Cervantes

Coalminer said:


> Interestingly Speidel was surprised that I managed to get 88 brews out of the original sensor!


So how many brews do they expect to get from a temperature probe?

Maybe I need to get a spare in now just in case.


----------



## Dan2

Cervantes said:


> So how many brews do they expect to get from a temperature probe?
> 
> Maybe I need to get a spare in now just in case.


 :unsure: Good point.
I'm about to start #70
I don't remember reading in the manual about life expectancy on the temp probe.


----------



## dicko

I have done approx 120 brews on my 20 and have not replaced the probe.

G'day Dan2 long time no see mate...I have been busy with things other than brewing.
We should catch up for a chin wag and even a beer or two.

Cheers


----------



## Dan2

dicko said:


> I have done approx 120 brews on my 20 and have not replaced the probe.
> 
> G'day Dan2 long time no see mate...I have been busy with things other than brewing.
> We should catch up for a chin wag and even a beer or two.
> 
> Cheers


That's good news - I've got at least 50 more in it then!

-re catch up - I'll give you a buzz.
Looking forward to both chin wag and two beers!


----------



## neal.p

Hi,
I'm looking at buying a 20L Brau to do 5L (20L/4=5L) recipe development. I'm thinking of adding different hop/yeast variations or even doing a separate mini-mash on the stovetop to add to a portion of the boil. Any opinions on whether the volume and variations are sound? Demi's seem like the only option at 5l but I've never used them for beer before and they look like a pain for ferm and cleaning.

And with the Brau itself, I've seem some rigs on the net that use Brau > hose > pump > HopRocket/filter > hose > plate chiller > hose > fermentor. Is anyone using a similar setup? 

As for Brau mods, other than the installation of a Ball valve, are there any others which you must have? Is the ferm jacket required in Sydney?

Cheers,
Neal


----------



## burrac15

Hi,

If you had the choice between a bm50 @ $4k all up ish and $600 to finish a 3v 50l what direction would you go? I'm fairly time poor at the moment but money isn't really an issue. Buy the bm and finish the 3v for high gravity?

Thanks,

Mark


----------



## razz

Buy the BM and finish the 3V


----------



## Batz

I really don't get this BM high gravity beer thing. What sort of high gravity can you not brew on a BM?

Oh..buy a BM.


----------



## razz

Anyone trying the beta version of the Spiedel app? The Mrs has got me a wifi unit for Xmas.


----------



## f00b4r

razz said:


> Anyone trying the beta version of the Spiedel app? The Mrs has got me a wifi unit for Xmas.


App or webpage?


----------



## razz

Web page.


----------



## alfadog

Is there a replacement control module available? I have an older BM... circa 2012ish, and would love to upgrade.


----------



## Bridges

Yep but I'd find it hard to justify the price. The wort isn't going to be any better.


----------



## Osangar

Goose said:


> I am not really qualified to comment on the GF as I only own a BM, but I will anyway. As I see it the major advantage is the controller on the BM which is pretty much set and forget after dough in to the point of removing the malt pipe prior to the boil, while with the GF you need to manually enter each step after the completion of the last.
> 
> One thing I prefer on the GF though, is the top down flow of wort through the grain bed. This has the advantage filtering the fine particles effectively which stay at the top of the grain bed when the malt pipe is removed. On the BM, the fines are trapped at the bottom of the malt pipe and alot seems to fall back into the wort as soon as the malt pipe is removed. The result is you end up boiling cloudy wort.
> 
> Flamesuit on because I know that what is important is the clarity of the wort to the fermenter, not so much the boiler, but I'd still rather be boiling clarified wort which to me is part of what a RIMS system should achieve.


question for the members, on this point from Goose - my reading on the subject has many indicating beer clarity is improved with the BM flow direction. I am in the process of deciding on buying either the GF or BM, and i am leaning towards BM due to perceived quality. but has anyone had issues with beer clarity ?


----------



## Midnight Brew

I went from BIAB to a BM and it was the two opposing ends of the spectrum. I had cloudy AF wort from biab, which caused clarity issues. The BM wort out of the each batch has been consistently clear and anything remaining sinks to the bottom of the brau when I add whirlflock and do a whirlpool for 10-15 minutes. 

I have never brewed on a GF before but as stated, a little less automated but significantly cheaper. If price isn't an issue I'd say go for it. Interestingly enough, there's a 3x videos on YouTube by (I forget his name) who sadly passed away, where his results were clearer wort from the GF. 

Put the feelers out and try and do a brew day on each system with brewers out your way. I'm sure there'd be a few willing to catch up for a beer and go through each system with you.


----------



## hezzer

Hi Osangar
I was in the same position and have gone for a 20L BM. I decided that the perceived quality overcame the post mash clarity plus grain and grape were offering 10% 0ff BMs. Might be wrong but I'll let you know how it goes. To me at the end of the day, if Robobrew, GF and BM were all the same price, which would I choose? Having done that, can I afford to spend $2500 and how important is the quality issue? We are all in different situations but for me that was the end of the story.


----------



## Osangar

thanks, Midnight Brew, and Hezza; I have been out of brewing for a while - shifting to Singapore, i was unable to bring along my brew setup. the guy who owns the brew shop here has been using a BM for a long time and reports no issue with faults or beer quality. so i think i will be going in this BM direction. ill post some pics and results when i start back on the brewing path.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Not only a pick up tube but a springer filter too.Time to get rid of the old hop sock.


----------



## Howlingdog

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not only a pick up tube but a springer filter too.Time to get rid of the old hop sock.
> 
> 
> 
> 004.JPG


Tell me more please.
1. where
2. cost
Brass pieces I have.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I got a few made up, that was a sample, will keep you posted.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not only a pick up tube but a springer filter too.Time to get rid of the old hop sock.
> 
> 
> 
> 004.JPG


Hell yes! Im so keen to get rid of my hop sock. I just look a all those hop oils going to waste when its so fat with hops and the centre of the sock isnt even touching the wort.


----------



## #20

Hi guys,

I consider buying the Grainfather. As far as I understand, the wort chiller is supposed to be sterilized by connecting it and letting wort run through it for about 5 minutes. Won't this procedure affect the hop utilisation and calculations?

Consider if the recipe has a 10 minute hop addition. You toss in the hops, then after them being boiled for 5 minutes, and there is 5 minutes left, you connect your chiller. I can see from videos that the temp then will drop some degrees. How do you think regarding this?

Do you:
1.) Pause the timer. Bring it up to a boil again, and boil for another 5 minutes? You then will have 10 minutes of real boiling of that hop, BUT you will also have some minutes of steeping at 97-98 degrees in between there,

2.) Or do you consider the slightly less temperature when the chiller is connected as a part of the 10 minute boil? So that after 5 minutes of hot wort flowing through, then you consider it as a 10 minute boil in total. Even if it hasn't really boiled for 10 minutes.

Really curious about this...


----------



## peteru

You don't run cold water through the chiller during this stage, just recirculate hot wort. It has close to zero effect on your boil. It certainly won't drop from boil to 97C.


----------



## #20

Thanks. Yes, I know that you run hot wort through it by circulating the boiling wort. I am pretty sure I saw in some video that connecting and starting to run the chiller while boiling, actually dropped the temp 2-3 degress. But I am not sure where, and I might have been dreaming


----------



## wide eyed and legless

OK so today I tried out the spring filter in the BM, after reading what Matt Mill had said about them (only good for filtering grain) slightly despondent but was pretty sure it would work with the pellets with a good whirlpooling and leaving until the temp got down to 80 degrees C.
Coiled and ready for action!


105 gram of pellets went into the boil without safety net.


Boil complete and proof will be in the pudding.


Hop sock hardly caught anything going into Jerry can.


Getting to the end.


The final drop straight into the glass, no hop sock and 2 litres of trub left in the BM with no tilting.


----------



## Boxcar

If someone with a set of calipers or a fine ruler would do me a favor, would you please post the outside and inside diameters of the small section of tube on the top of the filter plate? 20 and 50L parts should be the same because they go over a center rod that's the same diameter on each.

I can't seem to locate those dimensions posted elsewhere. I know that piece of tubing is 33mm tall and the BM's center rod is 12mm with M12 threading on top and I even know the diameter, thickness and hole size of the filter plate itself.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The ID of the boss is 12.5mm and the OD is 16mm, are you going to make one?


----------



## Boxcar

wide eyed and legless said:


> The ID of the boss is 12.5mm and the OD is 16mm, are you going to make one?



Thank you! I'm going to buy the original filter plates but I need to fit them on something else that I'm making. Looks like it will be perfect, worst case scenario I'll increase the ID by 0.5mm if needed.


----------



## Midnight Brew

wide eyed and legless said:


> OK so today I tried out the spring filter in the BM, after reading what Matt Mill had said about them (only good for filtering grain) slightly despondent but was pretty sure it would work with the pellets with a good whirlpooling and leaving until the temp got down to 80 degrees C.
> Coiled and ready for action!
> View attachment 106266
> 
> 105 gram of pellets went into the boil without safety net.
> View attachment 106267
> 
> Boil complete and proof will be in the pudding.
> View attachment 106268
> 
> Hop sock hardly caught anything going into Jerry can.
> View attachment 106269
> 
> Getting to the end.
> View attachment 106270
> 
> The final drop straight into the glass, no hop sock and 2 litres of trub left in the BM with no tilting.
> View attachment 106271



Have you tried this with flowers yet WEAL? This would come in handy using up some homegrown flowers.


----------



## Boxcar

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not only a pick up tube but a springer filter too.Time to get rid of the old hop sock.
> View attachment 97576



Did you put together your own copper+silicone outlet port/spring adapter and use BAC's spring?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I haven't MB, but Magic Pancake did post a video of using flowers in the Guten worked alright, the hop sock I put in the Jerry Can was a 400 micron and as you can see barely anything got through the spring.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Boxcar said:


> Did you put together your own copper+silicone outlet port/spring adapter and use BAC's spring?


I did but as it is an odd size dia (about 21mm) for the inside of the BM I used a piece of 20mm OD silicone hose with an inside dia of 1/2 inch, so used a piece of 1/2 inch copper tube and swaged the end so it gave a nice tight fit inside the BM.


----------



## Boxcar

wide eyed and legless said:


> I did but as it is an odd size dia (about 21mm) for the inside of the BM I used a piece of 20mm OD silicone hose with an inside dia of 1/2 inch, so used a piece of 1/2 inch copper tube and swaged the end so it gave a nice tight fit inside the BM.



Nice improvisation. What length did you cut the spring at and is it the smaller diameter one (~17mm) or the 3/4" version?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The springs I have are 1,020mm in length, for the BM I cut at 0,930mm, but it might quite possible to use a copper elbow and a blank to go around the circumference and back underneath, though I don't suppose it will achieve much.
Your other problem Boxcar with the filter, why don't you just get some perforated plate and sit it on the top of the malt pipe you can either get a spare seal to go around the top rim or get some white split seal from Clarke Rubber.


----------



## Boxcar

I plan to make (have made) a custom malt pipe, taller than the original BM 50L, but matching it in diameter. It'll hopefully have an internal groove like the original, but sitting a bit lower. It'll be used with original BM silicone seal, original filter plates and BAC screens. The BAC spring filter setup should be close to stock, but I have to roll my own connection to the valve port as I'll be using a SSBrewTech 22 gallon kettle which has a different port height.

Can anyone guess on the amount of deflection the malt pipe deal provides when the pipe is pushed downward onto the bottom of the kettle? Close to 1mm at all? 

From photos I've seen it's very difficult to see what the exact extrusion profile of the silicone seal is like - is it a simple "U" ? A "U" with thicker bottom, an "h?" Any info on this? And does anyone have a photo of the bottom edge of the malt pipe itself? I'm assuming it must have a rolled edge.

Another thing I'm trying to do is eliminate the bottom fixed attachment of the center rod, so the malt pipe will be sealed to the bottom via pressure from its lift lugs slotting under some ridges affixed to the inside of the kettle. The ability to do this well/easily supposes some deflection of the bottom silicone seal. I'd like to implement the ridges so that the lugs "lock" into place.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I recently did a similar test with the Guten malt pipe, if by deflection you mean the displacement, it was a poofteenth of bugger all.
The seal is just a 'U' you can purchase them cheap enough from local home brew shops( or maybe BAC Brewing stocks them)
If you are going to lock the malt pipe in place the way you have suggested, then whatever you fit into your kettle to lock the lugs under e will have to be fairly significant. Surprising how much pressure those pumps can push that grain bed, I would be matching the lifting lugs on the malt pipe with the locking lugs on the kettle. 
You should put some pics up of your build.


----------



## malt junkie

Boxcar said:


> I plan to make (have made) a custom malt pipe, taller than the original BM 50L, but matching it in diameter. It'll hopefully have an internal groove like the original, but sitting a bit lower. It'll be used with original BM silicone seal, original filter plates and BAC screens. The BAC spring filter setup should be close to stock, but I have to roll my own connection to the valve port as I'll be using a SSBrewTech 22 gallon kettle which has a different port height.
> 
> Can anyone guess on the amount of deflection the malt pipe deal provides when the pipe is pushed downward onto the bottom of the kettle? Close to 1mm at all?
> 
> From photos I've seen it's very difficult to see what the exact extrusion profile of the silicone seal is like - is it a simple "U" ? A "U" with thicker bottom, an "h?" Any info on this? And does anyone have a photo of the bottom edge of the malt pipe itself? I'm assuming it must have a rolled edge.
> 
> Another thing I'm trying to do is eliminate the bottom fixed attachment of the center rod, so the malt pipe will be sealed to the bottom via pressure from its lift lugs slotting under some ridges affixed to the inside of the kettle. The ability to do this well/easily supposes some deflection of the bottom silicone seal. I'd like to implement the ridges so that the lugs "lock" into place.


I don't quite follow. If your doing top down flow path why do you need to seal the bottom of the malt pipe. I use the BM 50 seal, 350 dia 560 tall malt pipe I run this in BM configuration, however it won't seal with out down ward pressure either way. The seal is tear drop shaped cushioned with a slit for the malt pipe, you couldn't roll the edge of the malt pipe and make it work. I also have the 20L BM complete maltpipe setup (unused) but the seal is completely different.


----------



## Boxcar

wide eyed and legless said:


> If you are going to lock the malt pipe in place the way you have suggested, then whatever you fit into your kettle to lock the lugs under e will have to be fairly significant. Surprising how much pressure those pumps can push that grain bed, I would be matching the lifting lugs on the malt pipe with the locking lugs on the kettle.
> You should put some pics up of your build.



I'm in design phase right now nailing down how I'll accomplish each of the feature goals. Basically the devil's work now, finalizing the smallest details as I fleshed out the "big picture" a little while ago. I'll leave myself wiggle room in case things have to change once building is under way. 12mm or 1/2" stainless round bar is what the lugs will likely be pushing against. 



malt junkie said:


> I don't quite follow. If your doing top down flow path



This will be bottom flow, precisely like the BM. Two bottom intakes, two bottom flow ports - a single more powerful pump. Basically it's going to be a BM with some upgrades to better suit what I want from this kind of system.



> I use the BM 50 seal, 350 dia 560 tall malt pipe I run this in BM configuration, however it won't seal with out down ward pressure



I plan to have downward pressure, it just wont come from the center rod (I'll have one, and it'll be used for a number of features, just not securing the malt pipe) - downward force will come from the inside perimeter of the kettle, and be applied via the lift lugs on the malt pipe. This is why I asked about the ability of the gasket to deflect/deform - squish. I need to be able to squeeze the gasket a bit. The malt pipe will rotate into a locked position inside the kettle.



> The seal is tear drop shaped cushioned with a slit for the malt pipe, you couldn't roll the edge of the malt pipe and make it work.



I asked because I'd think with enough downward force, like from the thread on the center rod, it might be possible for the edge of the pipe to cut through the gasket over time. I've found some decent alternatives for U gasket online for attractive prices, but thought just buying the original would save me the trouble of also having to source an adhesive to try and glue the ends of a length of gasket to form a circle - not to mention possibly having to try multiple adhesives if the first one isn't satisfactory.


----------



## malt junkie

It took a little over a year to cut through my first BM seal, but yeah can be an issue, and reminds me to order a spare soon, though I'm quite happy to replace them at that sort of rate. Be aware of pressure on the top plate, if you go through the brauclone threads you'll see 2mm plate bent out of shape, good crush and pump rests are key.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

If you have flared the bottom of the tube you may be able to use one of these (see link) depending on the size other than that Clarke Rubber will have a 'U' seal, but I get the impression there is no Clarke Rubber where you live.
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...eals.TRS0&_nkw=pressure+cooker+seals&_sacat=0


----------



## Boxcar

No tube has been made yet - I thought I'd get the gasket beforehand, just in case. I don't know of any retail-type places to get rubber/silicone gaskets here in Canada.  I don't think I'd even be able to find a pressure cooker seal like the ones linked locally, though I did find a 14" model on AliExpress. Based on the Boilcoil heater I'd like to use, my malt pipe will need to be only as wide as the stock one, about 346/350mm (I've seen both numbers listed so far).


----------



## malt junkie

Note Matho's clone and many others just used silicone brewing hose slit down one side, needing that bit of compression you'd probably go the extra thick hose.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

When you are ready for a seal let me know along with the length, I will get you some, if you keep the bottom of the tube straight you won't need the adhesive, just cut it at a 45 degree angle and it will hold its position, mine holds on the lip but I won't be needing that now I have the spring filter.
How are you going to keep the top filters in position?


----------



## Boxcar

wide eyed and legless said:


> When you are ready for a seal let me know along with the length, I will get you some, if you keep the bottom of the tube straight you won't need the adhesive, just cut it at a 45 degree angle and it will hold its position, mine holds on the lip but I won't be needing that now I have the spring filter.
> How are you going to keep the top filters in position?



Thanks.

The top will take a sort of bar with a hole in the middle that fits over the center rod and will lock to the lift lugs of the malt pipe. The idea here is again, just drop it on, and a small turn to lock. When the malt pipe itself is unlocked from the kettle, this top bar (it'll actually likely be an X) stay in place. The center rod can then be used to lift the entire pipe out of the kettle, bringing the bottom filter plate up with it (similar concept to Brew-Boss' COFI lift).


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Put down another brew today, hop pellets straight in without safety net, results even better that the last time, was thinking of silver soldering the joints to syphon right down to the bottom of the BM. No need, liquor drained to the top of the spring filter, whoever thought of using a spring as a filter is now level pegging with the guy who thought of the cable tie as the most simple and useful idea.


----------



## razz

wide eyed and legless said:


> Put down another brew today, hop pellets straight in without safety net, results even better that the last time, was thinking of silver soldering the joints to syphon right down to the bottom of the BM. No need, liquor drained to the top of the spring filter, whoever thought of using a spring as a filter is now level pegging with the guy who thought of the cable tie as the most simple and useful idea.
> View attachment 106392


What was volume of trub and hops Weal? Looks about two lts tops!


----------



## Boxcar

Gravity drain or pumped?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Even better razz, I had 2 litres last time and about a litre in that last pic the liquor level came down to the top of the spring which is 20mm dia then sucked in air but most of what was left was trub.

Boxcar that is gravity drained through the original BM tap, drains just as quick as without any filter, so easy to clean as well.Glad to see the back of the hop sock.


----------



## Madmen

Hi all, new to the forum. I am considering purchasing a BM 20 as they are on sale this week. I really like the quality of the unit. My only reservation is that I plan to brew quite a few IPA's that are around 6.5-7.5% ABV. The HBS advised of double mashing, and that would be ok for the odd brew, however plan to brew these IPA's every 3rd or 4th brew. Can this be achieved on the BM even if it means smaller batches (no sparging). It would be nice to hear other BM owners on options. Regards


----------



## Coalminer

Pretty much limited to a max of 6.0 - 6.1kg single mash grain but can boost this with DME


----------



## RobW

Madmen said:


> Hi all, new to the forum. I am considering purchasing a BM 20 as they are on sale this week. I really like the quality of the unit. My only reservation is that I plan to brew quite a few IPA's that are around 6.5-7.5% ABV. The HBS advised of double mashing, and that would be ok for the odd brew, however plan to brew these IPA's every 3rd or 4th brew. Can this be achieved on the BM even if it means smaller batches (no sparging). It would be nice to hear other BM owners on options. Regards



There are a few ways to increase gravity including double mashes, shorter volumes and using adjuncts.

Have a look through some of these threads


----------



## Dan Pratt

Madmen said:


> Hi all, new to the forum. I am considering purchasing a BM 20 as they are on sale this week. I really like the quality of the unit. My only reservation is that I plan to brew quite a few IPA's that are around 6.5-7.5% ABV. The HBS advised of double mashing, and that would be ok for the odd brew, however plan to brew these IPA's every 3rd or 4th brew. Can this be achieved on the BM even if it means smaller batches (no sparging). It would be nice to hear other BM owners on options. Regards



I've tried double mashing, makes the brew day longer. 

I've tried bigger malt bills, lower efficiency

I've tried using dextrose, works well but only for Imperial or Double IPAs

What I do now is target a lower ferment able volume of 17Lts. This way I can use 5kg of malt mashed at 64c and finish @ 1010 gravity for a 7% ABV beer, which is quite standard american IPA. I get 85% mash efficiency and my brewhouse stays at 75% overall.

I do a couple of other things:

Overnight mash with extended mash out at 76c
Flip the top screen over with a 5mm nut spacer, give about a 1 litre of space in the malt pipe for the grain.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

By simply making a perforated plate to sit over the top along with a fine mesh or perforated plate you will be able to take your grain volume up to around 7.5 kg. This is what I did with mine and got an extra bottom seal to fit around the top.



Grain and Grape are now doing it using a domed false bottom.
https://www.facebook.com/melbrau/posts/1768221540166578
Also check out the Grain and Grape double mashing technique.


----------



## Madmen

Thank you all for great suggestions.

I've placed order of BM20 and expect it next week. 

I may need further assistance to implement some of the suggestions you provided....I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again


----------



## fungrel

Yeah just bought a 50L model, will probably frequent this thread a bit to get some guidance. Upgrade from Grainfather. 

Will probably need some sort of profile for Brewersfriend to reference at some stage.


----------



## Wimmig

Hey guys, many current users of the BM Plus around (even better if you've used both)? I'm on a first gen 20 and thinking of an equipment update, i do like the idea of the additional flush drainage though am unsure as to how effective the cooling jacket is VS my current BM IC. I've got a bunch of additional equipment to get rid of so was thinking of rolling it all into a new BM and calling it a day.


----------



## EalingDrop

There's BM group on Tapatalk, someone has done a review of the jacketed cooling of the new BM (2017 model).
From what I remember it wasn't as quick as an IC. The cooling rate is less effective for small batches when using the short malt pipe to brew 10L batches as the cooling jacket is too high up.

Hopefully this helps your research mate.


----------



## captaincleanoff

Got the 50L braumeister recently.

I've done two brews so far with horrible results. Woeful efficiency...

First brew:
11kgs of grain. 50L into fermenter. Aiming for 1.052Came in at 1.043... 65%. Was a bit disappointed with this. I thought my crush might not have been great, so for the second brew I did a double crush - which resulted in pretty fine crushed malt.

Second brew (with double crushed fine malt)
12.1kgs of grain, 50L into fermenter. Came in at 1.034. WTF?!

What is happening here? I thought a finer crush would have definitely got better efficiency... A kilo more grain too, and it dropped by a whole 1.010 to 1.034, which is absurdly low.

Could it be, that the crush was so fine, that the circulation was affected? I can't believe it was this poor though


----------



## razz

Hey CC, you need to go the other way with mill settings. Back it off for more of a course crush. I occasionally get some mini fountains happening (more like small percolations) so I backed the mill off one setting and that resolved the problem and the efficiency was still good.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

captaincleanoff said:


> Got the 50L braumeister recently.
> 
> I've done two brews so far with horrible results. Woeful efficiency...
> 
> First brew:
> 11kgs of grain. 50L into fermenter. Aiming for 1.052Came in at 1.043... 65%. Was a bit disappointed with this. I thought my crush might not have been great, so for the second brew I did a double crush - which resulted in pretty fine crushed malt.
> 
> Second brew (with double crushed fine malt)
> 12.1kgs of grain, 50L into fermenter. Came in at 1.034. WTF?!
> 
> What is happening here? I thought a finer crush would have definitely got better efficiency... A kilo more grain too, and it dropped by a whole 1.010 to 1.034, which is absurdly low.
> 
> Could it be, that the crush was so fine, that the circulation was affected? I can't believe it was this poor though


That doesn't seem right, what were the steps you used, did you use Beersmith or any other programme?


----------



## captaincleanoff

Yeh I used beersmith.
Filled with 55L, 12kgs g normal mash schedule starting at 58c ending at 78c in different steps over 90 mins (45 mins at 62c).. Pulled out malt pipe, topped back up to 55L. Boiled, and then topped up to 55L again at end of boil. 

The fine crush is all I can think could be the problem. Used less grain on the first brew and got higher efficiency


----------



## razz

captaincleanoff said:


> Yeh I used beersmith.
> Filled with 55L, 12kgs g normal mash schedule starting at 58c ending at 78c in different steps over 90 mins (45 mins at 62c).. Pulled out malt pipe, topped back up to 55L. Boiled, and then topped up to 55L again at end of boil.
> 
> The fine crush is all I can think could be the problem. Used less grain on the first brew and got higher efficiency


Adding water post boil will also drop your gravity reading. If you are going to add water after mashing then you may as well sparge and get some more out of the grain. Looking at those things together (fine crush, top up water) then I can see why your readings are so low. Just for your info I also start with 55lts, regardless of grain weight, after mashout I sparge back to 55lts and then boil down for 2 hours which gives me 45lts post boil. I then usually end up with approx 42 its into the fermenter.


----------



## clarkie54

Agree with the above. Would suggest a gravity reading between each step too so you can isolate the problem. Just give it a good stir, take sample amount, throw that back in and test the next sample amount. Make sure your getting an accurate sample in other words.


----------



## captaincleanoff

yeh I accounted for all the extra water in beer smith though, aiming for 55L finished, around 50 into fermenter.


----------



## clarkie54

Because of the amount loss to trub / deadspace at the bottom there can be a big difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency with a BM.


----------



## fungrel

captaincleanoff said:


> Got the 50L braumeister recently.
> 
> I've done two brews so far with horrible results. Woeful efficiency...
> 
> First brew:
> 11kgs of grain. 50L into fermenter. Aiming for 1.052Came in at 1.043... 65%. Was a bit disappointed with this. I thought my crush might not have been great, so for the second brew I did a double crush - which resulted in pretty fine crushed malt.
> 
> Second brew (with double crushed fine malt)
> 12.1kgs of grain, 50L into fermenter. Came in at 1.034. WTF?!
> 
> What is happening here? I thought a finer crush would have definitely got better efficiency... A kilo more grain too, and it dropped by a whole 1.010 to 1.034, which is absurdly low.
> 
> Could it be, that the crush was so fine, that the circulation was affected? I can't believe it was this poor though



So I've done a few brews on my new 50L, and went from 67% BE on the first brew to 73% BE today.

I ended up changing grain crush from fine to coarse (1.2mm) and mashing a little longer (around 90min).

@clarkie54 mentioned that losses are an issue, I found this as well. Still yet to nail down dead space and loss calculations. With short malt pipe and no-chill, had 27L post boil but still had to tip the Brau to get the last of the wort into the cube? It feels counter-intuitive.

What is everyone's kettle dead space volume? I am adjusting up to 5L.


----------



## Batz

captaincleanoff said:


> Yeh I used beersmith.
> Filled with 55L, 12kgs g normal mash schedule starting at 58c ending at 78c in different steps over 90 mins (45 mins at 62c).. Pulled out malt pipe, topped back up to 55L. Boiled, and then topped up to 55L again at end of boil.
> 
> The fine crush is all I can think could be the problem. Used less grain on the first brew and got higher efficiency



This is how I brew with my 50lt BM, always have, and I have Beersmith set to this. I do sparge back to 55lt rather than just topping up but top up after the boil to 55lt.
The brew I did last week used 10kg of grain and finished at 1.052, this BTW was what I was aiming at. 55lt into the fermenters.

Batz


----------



## razz

Hey Fungrel. I use a pickup in the back of the tap to get more out of the kettle. I generally allow about 2-3 its left to kettle dead space. Prior to fitting the pickup I measured 10 ltrs below the height of the tap fitting.


----------



## Batz

razz said:


> Hey Fungrel. I use a pickup in the back of the tap to get more out of the kettle. I generally allow about 2-3 its left to kettle dead space. Prior to fitting the pickup I measured 10 ltrs below the height of the tap fitting.


I also use a pick up with similar kettle dead space.
This 2-3 lts are poured into a jug and left to settle, then used for starters.


----------



## fungrel

razz said:


> Hey Fungrel. I use a pickup in the back of the tap to get more out of the kettle. I generally allow about 2-3 its left to kettle dead space. Prior to fitting the pickup I measured 10 ltrs below the height of the tap fitting.



10L? Now that i think about it, makes sense. I bought the Plus and was thinking of draining from the tap at the bottom of the unit and blocking off the tap. Too much volume wasted for my liking.

Can you explain what the pickup is and whether you bought it or made it?


----------



## Boxcar

fungrel said:


> Can you explain what the pickup is and whether you bought it or made it?



IMO, consult this thread about Lauter Helix https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/lauter-helix.95579/page-6#post-1478352

Or look @ BAC Springer filter.


----------



## razz

fungrel said:


> 10L? Now that i think about it, makes sense. I bought the Plus and was thinking of draining from the tap at the bottom of the unit and blocking off the tap. Too much volume wasted for my liking.
> 
> Can you explain what the pickup is and whether you bought it or made it?



I used a copper elbow with a short length of 1/2” silicone tube pushed into the back of the tap fitting. If you want to go the way of the helix then that looks to be a great option also.


----------



## fungrel

I'm pulling my already thin hair out at this machine. 

Still at a loss as to my low BE. Can't get it any higher than around 65-70%, which is okay, but it's inconsistent. Only using short malt pipe in a 50L. 

It has to be due to boiloff rates as conversion efficiency is around 90%, pre-boil is around the same and then it goes downhill from there. 

I'm using the hood, as far as i can see from my last few brews i only gain about 3 gravity points from a 75min boil. Does this sound correct? 

Here is what I am using for the next brew. Any suggestions? Using the BM Plus, so no losses in the kettle.


----------



## Coalminer

Try a crush closer to 1.5mm.
Should be getting 80% BHE as a minimum


----------



## fungrel

Coalminer said:


> Try a crush closer to 1.5mm.
> Should be getting 80% BHE as a minimum



I understand what you are saying, but with a mash efficiency in the realm of 90%, surely the low brewhouse efficiency isn't because of crush. Conversion is sound. Don't you think it has to do with boiloff or volume losses?


----------



## Dan2

fungrel said:


> I understand what you are saying, but with a mash efficiency in the realm of 90%, surely the low brewhouse efficiency isn't because of crush. Conversion is sound. Don't you think it has to do with boiloff or volume losses?



Boil off won't affect efficiency - only concentrates the sugars.
If you're leaving a lot of trub behind post boil, then this will affect BH effeciency.

Have you calibrated the BM yourself?
Even though they come with volume markings on the centre rod - check it yourself.
I calibrated our brand new 15hL FVs after seeing radical discrepancies. Came with a sticker on it which it turns out was the perfect scale, just stuck on in the wrong spot resulting in 120L more than it indicated (all 3 FVs - must've been a job for the work experience kid that day)


----------



## fungrel

Dan2 said:


> Boil off won't affect efficiency - only concentrates the sugars.
> If you're leaving a lot of trub behind post boil, then this will affect BH effeciency.
> 
> Have you calibrated the BM yourself?
> Even though they come with volume markings on the centre rod - check it yourself.
> I calibrated our brand new 15hL FVs after seeing radical discrepancies. Came with a sticker on it which it turns out was the perfect scale, just stuck on in the wrong spot resulting in 120L more than it indicated (all 3 FVs - must've been a job for the work experience kid that day)



Yeah, i checked the markings. They are spot on. 

Incorrect estimation of volume was the culprit. Ended up being a huge amount of liquid that I was leaving behind (got lazy when i was using a Grainfather) and once accounted for, and I used the above profile for the latest brew, got 84% BE. 

Just need to tweak a little to account for more absorption from hops and it should be spot on.


----------



## razz

How good is waking up at 7:30 after a beaut sleep in and the malt pipe is saying "lift me"


----------



## razz

I’m just setting up my 50 to brew tomorrow and had no power at the controller. Checked breaker [emoji736] unplug WiFi unit [emoji736]power to controller. I tried unplugging the WiFi unit 4 times and each time the controller powered on. Both are mounted next to each other at back of controller. Any ideas folks?


----------



## alfadog

razz said:


> I’m just setting up my 50 to brew tomorrow and had no power at the controller. Checked breaker [emoji736] unplug WiFi unit [emoji736]power to controller. I tried unplugging the WiFi unit 4 times and each time the controller powered on. Both are mounted next to each other at back of controller. Any ideas folks?



I have has this problem once, I did similar fault finding to this but in the end I left it over-night and it worked in the morning... This is probably no help to you though


----------



## razz

Tx mate, did it continue to re-occur?


----------



## alfadog

razz said:


> Tx mate, did it continue to re-occur?



No, just the once, and this was several years ago now.


----------



## HatBand

Quick question for 20l Brau users; what volume do you find you’re able to get into the fermentor from your 20l Brau?


----------



## Coalminer

25L


----------



## alfadog

HatBand said:


> Quick question for 20l Brau users; what volume do you find you’re able to get into the fermentor from your 20l Brau?



I end up with around 21l in the fermenter


----------



## razz

alfadog said:


> No, just the once, and this was several years ago now.


I cleaned up my brewery this morning and after reassembling I decided to try the wifi unit again. This time the controller powered up no issues. I've left the wifi plugged in and mounted. Who knows???


----------



## Black Devil Dog

When I first bought my 50 litre BM, I made a measuring stick to accurately measure the mash volume. I 'calibrated' it against the markings on the centre rod using the 45 - 50 & 55 litre markings as my reference points.

From there I marked other volumes using the same measurements for each 1 litre and 5 litres on the ruler

Like this.








I've been using this for the better part of 3 years, thinking that it was accurate, because I assumed the the Braumeister markings would be correct.

Something I've thought of doing pretty much since I bought it, was to actually measure the amount of water going in and today I finally got around to it.

Today I measured 30 and then 50 litres into it. I tared the empty jug off on the scales and weighed 5 litres of water into it to make sure it was right.

Once I had the 2 volumes, I then worked out the rest of the 1 and 5 litre increments.

It seems that Braumeister markings in my BM are wrong and they're out by quite a bit.

What I discovered, for example, is that the 55 litre mark on the Braumeister is really only 53 litres and it gets considerably worse further up the ruler .





Below, the ruler on the left is the one I made today and the one on the right is the one I have been using for the last 3 years.






I only ever do full volume mashes and usually around 65 - 68 litres goes in. 

If I'm right, it means that previously, when I thought I was putting 68 litres in, I was really only putting 65 in.

Interestingly my gravity readings are usually within a point or so and volumes are pretty close, though often short by a litre and a bit, based on Beersmith estimates.

Neither of those things have ever bothered me, but this has got me scratching my follically challenged head.

Has anyone else had this issue?


----------



## Coalminer

I work on 10.5mm/litre above the element.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Do you mean as your dead space?
I previously used a pick up tube, so I had almost zero dead space and just allowed for losses to trub and absorption. 
Now I'm using a lauter helix and my losses have increased by about 1 - 1.5 litres. That's fine, I can make adjustments for that. 
But I'm intrigued that the volume marks seem to be out.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Are you measuring from the bottom or the top of the boss which holds the centre rod?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I sit the ruler on the top, but that shouldn't matter, because I've measured the water in, when it gets to the marks on the rod, it should be the same.


----------



## Coalminer

Black Devil Dog said:


> Do you mean as your dead space?
> I previously used a pick up tube, so I had almost zero dead space and just allowed for losses to trub and absorption.
> Now I'm using a lauter helix and my losses have increased by about 1 - 1.5 litres. That's fine, I can make adjustments for that.
> But I'm intrigued that the volume marks seem to be out.


No I don't worry about dead space
I mean that the first litre in won't read 10.5mm as some is taken up by the pump and plumbing and further additions will be displace by the elements
I just made up a S/S ruler and started measuring with 5 litres in the BM
Each litre after that was marked off and worked out at 105 mm for each 10 litres added


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Sorry, I read your earlier comment on my phone and mis-read it. The reason I thought you meant 10.5l was your dead space, is because on a 50 litre that's about what it would be without a pick up tube. It would take about 11- 12 litres to get above the elements on mine.

On the 50 litre, using the Braumeister marks as a guide it's 62mm for 10 litres.

It takes about 250ml to fill the plumbing. I just filled mine to the 20 litre mark and it took 19 litres to do it.


----------



## CJW

Coalminer said:


> I work on 10.5mm/litre above the element.



Is that hot or cold? Are you allowing for shrinkage of water as it cools?


----------



## Coalminer

CJW said:


> Is that hot or cold? Are you allowing for shrinkage of water as it cools?


Cold, room temp


----------



## kcurnow

wide eyed and legless said:


> The springs I have are 1,020mm in length, for the BM I cut at 0,930mm, but it might quite possible to use a copper elbow and a blank to go around the circumference and back underneath, though I don't suppose it will achieve much.
> Your other problem Boxcar with the filter, why don't you just get some perforated plate and sit it on the top of the malt pipe you can either get a spare seal to go around the top rim or get some white split seal from Clarke Rubber.
> 
> View attachment 106294



Where did you get the spring part of this setup? Seems to perform really well so am interested in making one up.


----------



## EalingDrop

To make brewday easier and safer, I found out that you could make a wort pump kit to transfer the wort utilising the in built pump. Gravity feed into a conical is not as they are quite tall.

Braumeister started selling them and call it the 'Wort pump device', but a copper pipe with a reducer or PVC pipe is all you need. I would go with the copper option as it allows sanitisation in boiling wort. Has anyone done it yet? A quick flick on this thread but I've not seen it.

PS. I credit to the Braumeister forum, and it's poster.


----------



## fungrel

EalingDrop said:


> To make brewday easier and safer, I found out that you could make a wort pump kit to transfer the wort utilising the in built pump. Gravity feed into a conical is not as they are quite tall.
> 
> Braumeister started selling them and call it the 'Wort pump device', but a copper pipe with a reducer or PVC pipe is all you need. I would go with the copper option as it allows sanitisation in boiling wort. Has anyone done it yet? A quick flick on this thread but I've not seen it.
> 
> PS. I credit to the Braumeister forum, and it's poster.
> 
> View attachment 110237
> View attachment 110238


Want!


----------



## Coalminer

Needs a comment from MHB


----------



## jimmysuperlative

Anyone else having trouble accessing braumeister.net forum site? Seems to be down for a couple of days now?


----------



## fungrel

jimmysuperlative said:


> Anyone else having trouble accessing braumeister.net forum site? Seems to be down for a couple of days now?


Yep. Down for me as well.


----------



## jimmysuperlative

Looks like it’s back... working for me anyway?


----------



## fungrel

I'd hold off from visiting for now, either a new certificate that was recently deployed isn't working correctly or something more nefarious is at play.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

That's the message I get too.


----------



## Beerandpies

How are BB's (Brau Brewers) doing high gravity beers. I want to do a 16% stout. I have a 50L


----------



## razz

Beerandpies said:


> How are BB's (Brau Brewers) doing high gravity beers. I want to do a 16% stout. I have a 50L


A couple of things B&P's.
1. The max in the 50lt malt pipe is about 13kgs. You can sparge this and get about 65lts pre-boil and then boil down for minimum 2, maybe 3 hours to get a fairly high gravity. (50lts after 3 hour boil?) You would need to do an hydrometer reading to see where it is at and then adjust with malt extract (maybe some sugar) to get your starting gravity. Putting the numbers through software would be essential. I haven't done this, I'm pulling this stuff out of my head as to how I would do it.


----------



## Beerandpies

razz said:


> A couple of things B&P's.
> 1. The max in the 50lt malt pipe is about 13kgs. You can sparge this and get about 65lts pre-boil and then boil down for minimum 2, maybe 3 hours to get a fairly high gravity. (50lts after 3 hour boil?) You would need to do an hydrometer reading to see where it is at and then adjust with malt extract (maybe some sugar) to get your starting gravity. Putting the numbers through software would be essential. I haven't done this, I'm pulling this stuff out of my head as to how I would do it.


I thought a similar process. I've done 13kg before and the basket is tight.


----------



## Talnoy

Beerandpies said:


> How are BB's (Brau Brewers) doing high gravity beers



How about double, or triple, mashing to get real high OG


----------



## Beerandpies

Talnoy said:


> How about double, or triple, mashing to get real high OG


I thought about it but I wasn't sure if there were issues mashing new grain in wort from the last mash.


----------



## Talnoy

Beerandpies said:


> I thought about it but I wasn't sure if there were issues mashing new grain in wort from the last mash.



Did it a couple of days ago, went well, ended up with OG 1094


----------



## Beerandpies

Talnoy said:


> Did it a couple of days ago, went well, ended up with OG 1094
> View attachment 111900


Awesome. Can you give me details of how you did it


----------



## Talnoy

Beerandpies said:


> Awesome. Can you give me details of how you did it



Sure. Divide the grain bill in two parts, they don’t need to be the same size. Start the program and begin mash the first part, when the saccarisation rests are done you abort the program (don’t do the mash-out), raise the malt pipe and, drain and sparge so that you restore the lost liquid due to grain absorption. Wait until temp has fallen down to your dough-in temp. Start the brewing program again, this time with the second part and let it run to completion. Easy-peasy! It will be a loooooong brew day


----------



## f00b4r

Did you take pH readings at each stage? Did you move the dark and crystal grains to the first mash only or split them evenly?


----------



## Beerandpies

Talnoy said:


> Sure. Divide the grain bill in two parts, they don’t need to be the same size. Start the program and begin mash the first part, when the saccarisation rests are done you abort the program (don’t do the mash-out), raise the malt pipe and, drain and sparge so that you restore the lost liquid due to grain absorption. Wait until temp has fallen down to your dough-in temp. Start the brewing program again, this time with the second part and let it run to completion. Easy-peasy! It will be a loooooong brew day


Beauty. Thanks for the info. [emoji16][emoji16]


----------



## Talnoy

f00b4r said:


> Did you take pH readings at each stage? Did you move the dark and crystal grains to the first mash only or split them evenly?



Yes I did. I start with my total water volume in the kettle and adjust pH with lactic acid, at dough-in I tap off all my sparge water to an insulated bucket. In the first mash I had only base malt, this was a mistake, next time I will have all the specialty malts in the first mash. I would need the pH drop from the specialty malts from the beginning


----------



## Talnoy

f00b4r said:


> Did you take pH readings at each stage? Did you move the dark and crystal grains to the first mash only or split them evenly?



Sorry, not very clear answer from me. Yes I did measure pH at every step, no I didn’t start with the dark grains (which was a mistake)


----------



## f00b4r

Talnoy said:


> Sorry, not very clear answer from me. Yes I did measure pH at every step, no I didn’t start with the dark grains (which was a mistake)




No worries, I got what you were trying to convey. I actually did a triple mash a couple of weeks ago and moved all the dark and crystal grains to the first mash, leaving just pale malt in the second and third. Unfortunately I didn't realise beforehand that I had mixed in starsan with my dionised water so didn't take pH reading at the time so was curious to see how it buffered for you and how much you had to adjust the second and third mash. I did however freeze the samples so plan to take measurements in the next couple of days and will post the results. 
It's definitely ready to do in the BM, if a little more time consuming and requires a bit of forward thinking with relation to buckets needed to empty the grain etc.


----------



## Talnoy

f00b4r said:


> was curious to see how it buffered for you and how much you had to adjust the second and third mash



I'm on a BM20, sparging rate 1 liter/kg:

Mash 1 (6 kg base malt, post mash, pre sparge): pH 5.9 and SG 1044
Mash 1 (6 kg base malt, post mash, post sparge): pH 5.9 and SG 1042
Mash 2 (5 kg base/dark malt, post mash, pre sparge): pH 5.6 and SG 1087
Mash 2 (5 kg base/dark malt, post mash, post sparge): pH 5.5 and SG 1084
Post boil and chill (90 minute boil, 2,7 l/h boil-off): pH 5.5 and SG 1094

I'm with you, definitely ready to do in BM. I wonder how many mash iterations are possible before some kind of solubility limit is reached


----------



## Beerandpies

Talnoy said:


> I'm on a BM20, sparging rate 1 liter/kg:
> 
> Mash 1 (6 kg base malt, post mash, pre sparge): pH 5.9 and SG 1044
> Mash 1 (6 kg base malt, post mash, post sparge): pH 5.9 and SG 1042
> Mash 2 (5 kg base/dark malt, post mash, pre sparge): pH 5.6 and SG 1087
> Mash 2 (5 kg base/dark malt, post mash, post sparge): pH 5.5 and SG 1084
> Post boil and chill (90 minute boil, 2,7 l/h boil-off): pH 5.5 and SG 1094
> 
> I'm with you, definitely ready to do in BM. I wonder how many mash iterations are possible before some kind of solubility limit is reached


Thank you for sharing. I've only done a few on the 50L and still tuning into how it runs.


----------



## EalingDrop

Hi BMsters,

Is there a way to pause a mash schedule?
Apart from the abort option there's not much else I can do. Is that how everyone does it? Press the abort button and resume when they've done what they need to?

Cheers
Aziz


----------



## awfulknauful

Yes you can pause, have you got the manual, haven't had to pause mine for a while, when I used to get dough balls I used to pause it.


----------



## EalingDrop

Just downloaded the 2017 manual and read chapter 11 on settings, can't find anything about pausing. 

However I came across a Reddit forum and the poster said by pressing the start and stop button it would work. I'm assuming it's the far left and far right button.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Yeah press them both at the same time and it will pause with options to abort or continue.


----------



## Talnoy

Anyone’s tried the delayed start function in fw 1.26 yet?


----------



## EalingDrop

Talnoy said:


> Anyone’s tried the delayed start function in fw 1.26 yet?
> View attachment 111984


Have not been keen on updates from all the issues that come with it, but this functionality might tempt me into doing it. Apparently I need a special cable and a PC to do it? I've got the 2015 edition. Anyone know how to do it?


----------



## Talnoy

EalingDrop said:


> I've got the 2015 edition. Anyone know how to do it?


Unfortunately you need to get the wifi-module first, then you connect the wifi-module to your PC with a USB-cable


----------



## Talnoy

Talnoy said:


> Anyone’s tried the delayed start function in fw 1.26 yet?


 I tried it myself this morning and delayed start works fine. Last night I set the timer on the BM like in the photo below and this morning it started warming water by itself. The only confusing thing was lo let the BM controller be as in the photo below and not press the right most button.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

What would happen if you pressed the select button? Or had you already pressed it and that is the image we see.


----------



## Talnoy

wide eyed and legless said:


> What would happen if you pressed the select button?


Of course I pressed the button yesterday [emoji85], the brewing program started with pump ventilation and all, so I had to abort and set the timer again.

If you leave the controller as in the picture it will work


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well I have the 2009 version I am happy with that, don't want to confuse my brain with hi tech brewing equipment, I am capable of rising at the crack of nine and turning it on.


----------



## Talnoy

wide eyed and legless said:


> Well I have the 2009 version I am happy with that


I would be too, the beer doesn't get better with the newer versions, just fun to try out the features available in the machine.


----------



## Beerandpies

Hey guys has anyone else had problems scaling recipes with Beersmith 3. It gives me a crazy amount of hops to meet an IBU. I have checked the hop utilisation and it's set to 100%. I plug in different equipment and it gives roughly what I'd expect as hop quantities. I have the 50L brau. Any advise would be much appreciated.


----------



## scomet

Hello Fellow Brauies - FYI

Dont know if you have seen this? there is also a manual that explains the theory behind this brewing technique.

Low-Oxygen-Brewing-Kit for 20-litre Braumeister
https://shop.speidels-braumeister.de/en/accessories/brewing/lob-set-20l

https://www.speidels-braumeister.de/en/service/downloads.html

Manual for low oxygen brewing EN


----------



## wide eyed and legless

There is a whole site dedicated to LOB linked it to this page because they have some good reading material in their library.
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/2016/10/


----------



## Charst

Assume somewhere in thread is a link to www.lindhcraftbeer.com

Blokes been running test batchs for spiedel for a while. Very nice setup and lots of pics.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Everyone hears the high pitch beep before me, the dog lets me know when its going off.


----------



## zoigl

Has anyone upgraded their older 50 l control box and still have their old control box in working order? I am interested in replacing my new and upgraded replacement. It has too many bells and whistles for me, and it the face gets fogged up.
Otherwise, I will have to get my old box repaired, the pumps switch gave up the ghost.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

zoigl said:


> Has anyone upgraded their older 50 l control box and still have their old control box in working order? I am interested in replacing my new and upgraded replacement. It has too many bells and whistles for me, and it the face gets fogged up.
> Otherwise, I will have to get my old box repaired, the pumps switch gave up the ghost.


I don't know how much the price difference is between the new and the old, but if you could manage with the old why change?


----------



## Black n Tan

I happen to be in the market for the new controller and have a perfectly good old controller, so may be a swap is in order (plus cash). How much cash do you want on top of the swap?


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Got a Brau 20

Okay, I am slack. Just read the manual. How often should the pump be stripped and clean? 

Also, I think I may have done some damage to my tap. Anyone replaced their taps? Easy job? Expensive?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I generally always open the pump up and give it a clean after every brew, after cleaning let it all dry before putting it away. Not a big op, but look after what you have got.
Don't change the tap keep the original, what damage have you done?


----------



## Black n Tan

I have found that sticking hose in the inlet or outlet is enough to dislodge any stray grain, so I no longer open the pump.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Same here and each time I have opened it I have never found anything which shouldn't be in there but it isn't a hard task to do so I do always do it, wouldn't even take 5 mins.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I always open my pumps (50l) once I'm finished. There's often small bits of hop debris in there and also I use a toothpick to clean out the impeller holes. 
Wipe it dry and put it back together.


----------



## fungrel

Fatgodzilla said:


> Got a Brau 20
> 
> Okay, I am slack. Just read the manual. How often should the pump be stripped and clean?
> 
> Also, I think I may have done some damage to my tap. Anyone replaced their taps? Easy job? Expensive?


One of my taps leaked, warranty replacement and easy to do.

Clean pumps every time, always crud in there and less than 5 min to do.


----------



## zoigl

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't know how much the price difference is between the new and the old, but if you could manage with the old why change?


The pumps stopped working, the only reason that I changed.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

wide eyed and legless said:


> Don't change the tap keep the original, what damage have you done?



Pushing a hose onto the tap, the nozzle went up. Push it back down but tap not working now. Will have a good look at it over weekend, post pictures if I can't fix.


----------



## zoigl

Black n Tan said:


> I happen to be in the market for the new controller and have a perfectly good old controller, so may be a swap is in order (plus cash). How much cash do you want on top of the swap?


PM me, how old is your control box? I'm looking at possible compatibility issues. The temperature probe has a different plug and needs changing with the new box, so a new silicon seal will be required otherwise, mine just plugged in.
My BM 50 dates from March 2010.


----------



## scomet

Fatgodzilla said:


> Okay, I am slack


Please dont be it will cost you $$, with my old engineering hat on (retired and loving it) opening and cleaning the pump imo is essential after every brew - the balance holes in the impeller must be kept clean these are hydraulic balance holes (not dynamic) they allow the impeller to float in the mag drive pump if there're clogged the impeller will rub at the rear, wear out quickly reduce the pumps (limited) efficiency and importantly reduce your brewing efficiency / taste...... its easy to do, flip the machine after cleaning to dry, spin off the motor, simples. I filter, to start its a pita, then its just habit! easy.....


----------



## Coalminer

Fatgodzilla said:


> Pushing a hose onto the tap, the nozzle went up. Push it back down but tap not working now. Will have a good look at it over weekend, post pictures if I can't fix.


The nylon insert has been dislodged
remove the tap and look into the delivery end to see if the holes line up


----------



## EalingDrop

Coalminer said:


> The nylon insert has been dislodged
> remove the tap and look into the delivery end to see if the holes line up


Would this be a suitable replacement?

https://www.kegland.com.au/high-temperature-silicone-oring-for-1-2-bsp-20mm-id-x2-5mm-bs117.html


----------



## Black Devil Dog

The nylon insert in mine shifted and the flow became little more than a trickle. It was a real pain in the arse when it happened.
Motivated me to change to a 3 piece ball valve, haven't looked back.


----------



## EalingDrop

Crap, I was refering to the O rings replacement. Never thought the Nylon sleve would shift, but I'd imagine it'd be a ball ache trying to move back into place.


----------



## f00b4r

EalingDrop said:


> Crap, I was refering to the O rings replacement. Never thought the Nylon sleve would shift, but I'd imagine it'd be a ball ache trying to move back into place.



Vice, rubber mallet and a bit of patience. 
I had a tap that leaked below 30C (?) And they sent me a new plastic sleeve rather than a new tap, if you have a vice then it isn't that hard to swap it; the tolerances for it working properly must be fairly tight.


----------



## Coalminer

Take care. I don't know if all taps are the same but the insert in my 2013 vintage tap has a hole on either side but one is slightly smaller.
good to check BEFORE mash/boil.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Coalminer said:


> The nylon insert has been dislodged
> remove the tap and look into the delivery end to see if the holes line up



Yep, that is what I think happened. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Black Devil Dog said:


> The nylon insert in mine shifted and the flow became little more than a trickle. It was a real pain in the arse when it happened.
> Motivated me to change to a 3 piece ball valve, haven't looked back.



Was that an easy removal / replacement? Where did you source the new valve from?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Piece of cake to do, just need a couple if shifters to do the job. 


I bought mine from Craftbrewer, but their website shows they're currently out of stock, as is Grain and Grape, so you might have to hunt around.

You'll need the 3 piece ball valve, an adapter to mount the ball valve to the Braumeister and a hose barb. Use some heavy duty thread tape (grey) also.


----------



## finley44

zoigl said:


> Has anyone upgraded their older 50 l control box and still have their old control box in working order? I am interested in replacing my new and upgraded replacement. It has too many bells and whistles for me, and it the face gets fogged up.
> Otherwise, I will have to get my old box repaired, the pumps switch gave up the ghost.



I’m thinking of buying the new controller for my Bm50 want to sort out a trade?


----------



## zoigl

I am still trying to sort out getting my old control box repaired so as to give me an idea what I would need $ to swap with some one here. My new control box does not have the wifi adapter.


----------



## finley44

Ok let me know, not too fussed with wifi


----------



## lost at sea

whats the price on a new bm50 controller worth?


----------



## zoigl

I can not remember exactly, I spoke with G & G by phone and ordered it that way. My visa card suggests that I paid $623-80 but I think that included some yeast as I took advantage of the postage costs. You could contact G & G


----------



## finley44

https://www.grainandgrape.com.au/pr... 50L--speidel-braumeister-controller-50-litre

$550.00 plus postage, pm on its way.


----------



## Beerandpies

Does anyone else have trouble maintaining steady boil with the 50L brau


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Beerandpies said:


> Does anyone else have trouble maintaining steady boil with the 50L brau


I have the 20 litre made a hood for mine to keep a reasonable boil happening, somewhere MHB put up a post explaining the reason for a lower than vigorous boil.


----------



## Beerandpies

wide eyed and legless said:


> I have the 20 litre made a hood for mine to keep a reasonable boil happening, somewhere MHB put up a post explaining the reason for a lower than vigorous boil.


I use an over the side element


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Beerandpies said:


> I use an over the side element


From what I remember of Marks post there was some reasonable reasoning for the boil rate of the BM, hopefully he will reply.


----------



## Beerandpies

Ok cheers


wide eyed and legless said:


> From what I remember of Marks post there was some reasonable reasoning for the boil rate of the BM, hopefully he will reply.


----------



## Hopsta

Beerandpies said:


> Does anyone else have trouble maintaining steady boil with the 50L brau


 I have the 20 and don’t get a vigorous boil, like I did with my previous nasa burner. Having said this I also don’t get boilivers anymore. And TBH a vigorous boil is not needed it just needs to boil.


----------



## Brewtus

I also didn't get a reliable rolling boil, especially in the winter.I use a cut to fit gym mat around the outside. It gets to temp faster and boils more reliabliy. You can see it here https://beerbackhome.com/the-brewery 
It only cost about $13 with enough to cover the HLT (12L urn).




Hopsta said:


> I have the 20 and don’t get a vigorous boil, like I did with my previous nasa burner. Having said this I also don’t get boilivers anymore. And TBH a vigorous boil is not needed it just needs to boil.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Beerandpies said:


> Does anyone else have trouble maintaining steady boil with the 50L brau




Sometimes mine seems to be a bit lack-lustre if I don't have the hood on. Once the hood's on, the boil definitely becomes more vigorous. 
My hood is a large S/Steel mixing bowl with a 150mm hole cut into it.

Interestingly, the boil off rate doesn't seem to be that much different whether using a hood or not. 
_Disclaimer (Only compared it once and was boiling water)_.


----------



## adimacca

I was thinking of ordering a pair of fine mesh filter replacements from BAC brewing but the shipping from Italy is fairly expensive. I'm in the Canberra area and I would be keen to see if anyone else wanted to order anything from them to make the postage more worthwhile. Or if anyone can recommend a cheaper option for better built fine mesh filters.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I got rid of the mesh filters, got sick of jabbing my fingers, got light gauge perforated plate from Geordie Stainless, or there should be someone in Brisbane sells S/S mesh or perforated plate, you only need off cuts.


----------



## Black n Tan

why not get them from Grain and Grape? https://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/search?search=mesh


----------



## EalingDrop

He's after the perforated disc that Bac brewing makes (or one made locally as per Weals suggestion). 

How much was postage from Italy? When I got mine sent to a mates place in the UK, they came in no thicker than an envelop.


----------



## adimacca

EalingDrop said:


> He's after the perforated disc that Bac brewing makes (or one made locally as per Weals suggestion).
> 
> How much was postage from Italy? When I got mine sent to a mates place in the UK, they came in no thicker than an envelop.



Delivery would come in at just under 60 euro for 26 euro worth of gear. I'm trying to find an email they sent me earlier that says it's a flat rate up to a certain weight but I can't locate it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

adimacca said:


> Delivery would come in at just under 60 euro for 26 euro worth of gear. I'm trying to find an email they sent me earlier that says it's a flat rate up to a certain weight but I can't locate it.


Here is one of mine I made from an off cut I have another piece left you can have for free, I get to Moorabbin a fair bit so I can call into Geordie and get another piece. Will you be able to cut and drill the pieces? Also is it the 20 litre BM


----------



## scomet

adimacca said:


> 60 euro for 26 euro worth of gear


I just say f* a lot! Its a shame Speidel don’t fix this issue its the one bad thing with the Brau. Oh, other than the tap…. Garlock have a machine for putting SS edges on metal/graphite gaskets for the petroleum industry it would cost sod all to do at the factory.


----------



## Batz

Hopsta said:


> I have the 20 and don’t get a vigorous boil, like I did with my previous nasa burner. Having said this I also don’t get boilivers anymore. And TBH a vigorous boil is not needed it just needs to boil.



I have the 50lt and the boil was a bit howdy doody, now with a jacket and the stainless hood (both original Braumeister) I have to use FermCap AT antifoam to stop boil overs.


----------



## fungrel

Batz said:


> I have the 50lt and the boil was a bit howdy doody, now with a jacket and the stainless hood (both original Braumeister) I have to use FermCap AT antifoam to stop boil overs.


I use the 50 with just the stainless hood and need to use Fermcap.


----------



## adimacca

Thanks for the offer but I don't have the means to cut it myself. I'm looking into options here, it's not too urgent so I'm not stressed at the moment. If I come up empty I might hit you up if you're still happy to help.


----------



## stux

Been out of the brewing game for a few years 

Too time poor 

Wife and kids decided to fix this for Father’s Day 

Proud new owner of a BM50+!!!

Now, I’m sure I have some fermenters around here somewhere...


----------



## lost at sea

lucky barstard, i have a 2nd hand BM50 and so glad i bought it over the chinese knock offs....built to last your lifetime


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have both, the Chinese SVB's and the BM, when I got the BM direct from Germany it came in a box that a Leopard tank commander would have been proud of, but even though I have pushed the Chinese SVB's to their limit they are holding up. In saying that I would never get rid of my BM just in case.


----------



## scomet

weal, mine arrived ex Germany in 5 days via DHL, I hadn't told the wife I'd bought it!! The box was so good I've kept it haha...


----------



## wide eyed and legless

scomet said:


> weal, mine arrived ex Germany in 5 days via DHL, I hadn't told the wife I'd bought it!! The box was so good I've kept it haha...


Mine came through the post without a scratch, better quality packaging than what the Chinese use, although the Chinese line their boxes with ply.


----------



## stux

Did my first batch on the BM50+ on the weekend 

What a nice machine.

I definately need a better/lower stand for it. Was googling about, when I bumped into a facebook post from Spiedel from last week.

Rolling tray for BM50. Has extra height to make it easier to get to the pumps etc, has drain/drip tray functionality, with a bung.

Supposedly due out in October.


----------



## chookherder

Wow, I’d love that model with the bottom tap. I do love these machines but don’t like the amount of waste left behind, certainly too much to justify using the short malt pipes.


----------



## stux

chookherder said:


> I’d love that model with the bottom tap



I found it worked quite nicely when hosing out the trub. 

If I had the BM raised up off the platform, like the above roller-dolley, I probably could've cleaned the pumps without inverting the unit.

Still working on process of course


----------



## Brewer Tom

Hi BM'ers, got a BM20 and recently it has lost it's sound, anybody came across this before? G&G are on the case and waiting for a response from Germany so thought I would put this out there in the meantime.
Any help appreciated.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Brewer Tom said:


> Hi BM'ers, got a BM20 and recently it has lost it's sound, anybody came across this before? G&G are on the case and waiting for a response from Germany so thought I would put this out there in the meantime.
> Any help appreciated.


I was in the midst of an explosion, high pitched sounds I can no longer hear, that goes for the washing machine too. My wife has to tell me when it starts to beep. (The BM not the washing machine that's her department)


----------



## stux

So, I received my "Wort Pump Device 50L", it should solve a niggle I have with my setup, and I didn't want to get my march pump and all its plumbing out on a brew day if I don't need to.

...I find it helps if you pronounce it with a german accent...

Anyway, it had two sets of pump plugs in it... and the picture shows this too...

Anyone know why? All I can think is its so that you can be mashing in one BM50, while you Vurt Poomp from another :-\

Review: http://www.lindhcraftbeer.com/2018/06/speidel-wort-pump-device/

(I learned there is an indentation to assist with placement)


----------



## stux

stux said:


> it had two sets of pump plugs in it... and the picture shows this too...
> 
> Anyone know why? All I can think is its so that you can be mashing in one BM50, while you Vurt Poomp from another :-\



Thinking on this some more, I believe you're meant to use all four in the BM, and the reason for the pump plugs on the inlet side is to restrict hop debrid/hot break etc from entering the pump. It'd act a bit like a raised pickup.

German Engineering I guess.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I would have thought they would have put up a video of how it will work, it still isn't clear to me what the purpose is. If the vessel is full of wort how can it be set up?


----------



## stux

wide eyed and legless said:


> I would have thought they would have put up a video of how it will work, it still isn't clear to me what the purpose is. If the vessel is full of wort how can it be set up?



There are little etchings on the top of the device, you line those up and rotate until you find the pump “pins” and raise/drop into place. Then screw down. 

There are two videos on this page. The one with the 50L only shows putting two pins in. (Not 4)

The other shows a 20L, but both pins (out of 2) are used that time

https://shop.speidels-braumeister.de/en/accessories/brewing/wort-pump-device-50-litre-braumeister

It’s times like these I hate how the modern world seems to eschew manuals in place of QR codes (if you are lucky) for YouTube videos.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well it looks like you would be using only one pump, maybe the other two are spare, (be easy to lose emptying out the kettle) I think you are right about the plug on the inlet being a raised pick up.


----------



## razz

Going by the pic from the same page you need to insert the four pins for the 50BM.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Looks like you are right razz, the 50 litre is using both pumps, I did wonder if there was a way of using one. That image looks different to this image.




In the other image it looks like a 'horse shoe bend.


----------



## hezzer

wide eyed and legless said:


> Looks like you are right razz, the 50 litre is using both pumps, I did wonder if there was a way of using one. That image looks different to this image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the other image it looks like a 'horse shoe bend.




OK, can someone who has used this help? It would appear that the pipe fits over the inlet and outlet (20L BM) with the two little plugs supplied. How does this then pull wort out of the BM? If it does, won't it suck all the trub from the bottom, which I try and filter out a bit normally through the tap? Lastly, any idea of the pump head height available with the tube supplied - 1m, 2m? (20L BM). I need convincing before paying around $200 for a bit of stainless pipe. Thanks.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

hezzer said:


> OK, can someone who has used this help? It would appear that the pipe fits over the inlet and outlet (20L BM) with the two little plugs supplied. How does this then pull wort out of the BM? If it does, won't it suck all the trub from the bottom, which I try and filter out a bit normally through the tap? Lastly, any idea of the pump head height available with the tube supplied - 1m, 2m? (20L BM). I need convincing before paying around $200 for a bit of stainless pipe. Thanks.


I understand how it works, for the 20 litre the tube fits over the outlet only, the other plug is as stux suggested it is a raised pickup. Here is a pic of the 20 litre, and to be honest for a 20 litre I wouldn't be spending the money on it.


----------



## GoodDuck

My understanding is the 50L has 2 inlets and 2 outlets. The 50L wort pump device sits on the 2 outlets once all "pump plugs" are sitting in place (inlets and outlets). the 20L wort pump does not have the lower T piece with the bend, so only sits on the only 20L outlet


----------



## hezzer

GoodDuck said:


> My understanding is the 50L has 2 inlets and 2 outlets. The 50L wort pump device sits on the 2 outlets once all "pump plugs" are sitting in place (inlets and outlets). the 20L wort pump does not have the lower T piece with the bend, so only sits on the only 20L outlet


Thanks both of you for the replies. The 20L kit photo answers the inlet question. I agree that it's probably not worth the money.
cheers H


----------



## Drewgong

With the bm50+ how well does the cooling jacket work?


----------



## Maxt

Hi all is there anything I should look out for when buying a second hand braumeister?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Maxt said:


> Hi all is there anything I should look out for when buying a second hand braumeister?


I think you are safe with a second hand BM, just check out the elements, make sure they are still shiny.


----------



## azza1

Hi, would you guys buy a 8 year old v1 braumeister or a new grainfather connect at this point?


----------



## Coalminer

Make sure it will maintain a constant boil. Mine is the same vintage and the controller reads 3C above the actual temperature.
so when it hits 100C the controller thinks it is 103C and shuts off the heater. I also have to programme my mash temps 3C above what is needed. New controllers are expensive.
I would say it is a small electronic component on the circuit board but there are no adjustable pots on the board and Spidel has not been forthcoming with the the necessary info but is more than willing to sell a new one.
But there are workarounds so I am still happy with my unit and won't be tossing it.


----------



## zoigl

My 50 litre BM is now over 10 years old, I brew regularly. I had a problem with the control box link to the pumps, all sorted, Grain and Grape are wonderful guys to do business with.
I tried the upgraded control box but reverted back to my original controller, it does what I need without all the bells and whistles.
My pumps are completely original, although I did drop an impeller on the concrete floor and broke a couple of vanes, I replaced this with a new one. Don't tighten the pumps more than you have to in order to get a seal, hand tight is fine, just check for leaks.
I reverse my top filter to get a better seal on the grain, I still love my original cloth filters.
In my opinion, the original BM takes a lot to beat. I use a flat SS sink strainer drilled to fit the centre pole and hold this in place with a washer cut from silicon tube, thus preventing grain passing through the filter around the centre pole.
I still use the original tap, I can not understand why some choose to replace it. I find the silicon tube slips on easily, and if you apply a plastic wing nut hose clamp from Bunnings, you have nothing to worry about.
I put some photos up with my set up some where, check them out.
I Just read the previous note and will add my bit. Set the temperature to boil as 102c or as high as the control box will allow. 
I tried cutting up a camp foam mattress for insulation but soon gave this up as the wort is sticky and makes a mess on the outside of the BM. To overcome this, I commandeered a large bath towel which I wrapped around the BM and held in place with a bungy cord, the towel completely covers the BM from the support base to the rim. This really helps the rolling boil. I boil in the open air as I don't want the sticky steam inside on my ceiling.


----------



## MHB

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think you are safe with a second hand BM, just check out the elements, make sure they are still shiny.


Some of the early ones have black elements rather than polished SS. They are actually better at heat transfer than the SS ones. Just make sure they are clean.

Hard to go wrong with a BM, even an old one its like choosing between a used BMW and a new Kia. a year or two from now the BMW will still be a quality car, the Kia?
Mark


----------



## wide eyed and legless

+1 for the original tap it was made that way for a reason, not just to slip the silicone hose over but the i/d of the tap is only 8mm if I remember right so opening the tap you won't be getting a faster emptying bringing lots of trub with it. I wouldn't hesitate if you are happy with the price.


----------



## professional_drunk

Have had my v1 Braumeister for years now. Still love it. If it was stolen from me, I'd go buy another one even while knowing there are cheaper options out there that could save me thousands.


----------



## hezzer

azza1 said:


> Hi, would you guys buy a 8 year old v1 braumeister or a new grainfather connect at this point?


Agree with MHB. I have a 3 year old BMv2 with over 70 brews done and Grainfather chiller & fermenters. I wish that my fermenter/chiller set up had the same level of quality as the BM. I use a boil setting of 103 at sea level to get a boil which is sufficient. I have had a neoprene cover but got fed up cleaning it and am back to bare SS now. The wireless addition isn't worth the cost and I'm tending to using manual settings anyway so the old V1 will provide all you want, provided it's in good nick. Good luck.


----------



## Batz

I bought my 50lt Braumeister from MHB 11 years ago, I have done shitloads of brews since then. Never have a problem with it, I've heard things about the new models but I'm very happy with mine.
The older models had a small problem with the tap dripping when hot, that's why many changed them out.


----------



## AussieDave

Does anyone have any recommendations on the 20L BM Controller faults? i have the older unit. the controller screen back light is lite but nothing else happens.


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## Willigofasta

I have a 20L BM Plus with around 25 brews on it. Looking to upgrade to a 50L. Anyone considering the opposite, i.e. downsizing from 50 to 20 and would consider a swap arrangement?


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## Goose

Has anybody had a chance to see or try out the new BM models ? 






Speidels #Braumeister PLUS 50 Liter


Neuer Braumeister PLUS




shop.speidels-braumeister.de





As far as I can see they have finally upgraded their controller (which hopefully fixes that godawful misting problem that seemed to cause universal woes), added a drain cock on the floor of the vessel as well as a fixed cooling jacket.

I have seen a jacketed model but without the new controller in action. It has to be the most inefficient cooling solution I have ever seen, it just wastes water and adds even more weight to unit making the tippy dumping required at cleaning even more difficult. There does not appear to be an option to buy the unit without the jacket, at least on any website I've seen.

Speaking of cleaning, it appears they did add a drain cock to the bottom, but what is the point if the bottom is flat and not concave for effective drainage?

Also looking at the new controller it is not compatible with the old BM unit in terms of connectivity as far as I can see, not without some creative modifications.







I see Grain & Grape have the 50l model available now at $4300. That is punchy, especially if the Brewtools B80 which I am beginning to think is superior in almost every way, is selling for a grand less.....


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## zoigl

Does any one have an easy fix to connect the wifi module? My BM is in the brew shed 20 meters from the router in direct line through a large glass window. Speidel suplied a 30 cm cable, my PC with USB is inside the house.


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## Osangar

Goose said:


> Brewtools B80



that a nice looking setup, but I can't tell which way the water flows. is it from the bottom to the top through the grain, or from top to bottom through the grain


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## WEF

zoigl said:


> Does any one have an easy fix to connect the wifi module? My BM is in the brew shed 20 meters from the router in direct line through a large glass window. Speidel suplied a 30 cm cable, my PC with USB is inside the house.



I've setup an additional wifi router in my shed in slave/repeater mode because it is able to pickup the signal more easily from the house than the BM module, it is able to connect to the wifi router in the house (also about 20m away) with the benefit's of a boosted signal in the shed. I then connect the BM to this slave router. The other benefit is i can watch Youtube videos in the shed with about 10mb internet speed.

My only problem is i am having issues connecting to the BM portal, it could be a problem with this "repeater router" mode as there are some potential DNS issues etc going this slave/repeater route, however upon scouring the internet to solve this problem it is more likely to do with Speidel web portal itself?

Instead in order to connect to the BM and successfully interact with it, the workaround is to roll back the firmware on the BM wifi module (further info here) and connect to the BM50 over LAN (anywhere i can join my wifi signal on the property). Obviously it would be ideal to connect via the Speidel portal on their current firmware etc so one can easily upload recipes and check on brew day progress from anywhere (Bunnings) but i couldn't figure out a fix for this, not to sure i'd want over 50L of wort on a rolling boil while i'm down at Bunnings anyway.


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## zoigl

Thanks WEF, I am starting to think that I have bought a superseded wifi module and that Speidels do not appear anxious to sort it out. I really want to overcome the fogging up and bending over to control the BM.
A new model was advertised on a recent BYO mag.


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## WEF

zoigl said:


> Thanks WEF, I am starting to think that I have bought a superseded wifi module and that Speidels do not appear anxious to sort it out. I really want to overcome the fogging up and bending over to control the BM.
> A new model was advertised on a recent BYO mag.



Yeah their new model looks quite nice indeed, one can even ferment in it and control the fermentation temperature with the controller. I had the Grainfather 30 before this and they are a nice unit, they have released a 70L model recently also and all their models have their controller up high, only drawback is the quality is nothing like the Braumeister. The Brewtools i'm told have their issues also and their quality is also not like the BM's.

My BM50 sits on top of a flatbed scissor lift trolley/table, i can raise it when i want to gravity "siphon" or for any other purpose. I have also fitted a small 100kg electric winch to raise the malt pipe.


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## Goose

Osangar said:


> that a nice looking setup, but I can't tell which way the water flows. is it from the bottom to the top through the grain, or from top to bottom through the grain



brewtools is top down. The bottom up, as far as I can see is unique to the braumeister.


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## chookherder

Hi W


WEF said:


> I've setup an additional wifi router in my shed in slave/repeater mode because it is able to pickup the signal more easily from the house than the BM module, it is able to connect to the wifi router in the house (also about 20m away) with the benefit's of a boosted signal in the shed. I then connect the BM to this slave router. The other benefit is i can watch Youtube videos in the shed with about 10mb internet speed.
> 
> My only problem is i am having issues connecting to the BM portal, it could be a problem with this "repeater router" mode as there are some potential DNS issues etc going this slave/repeater route, however upon scouring the internet to solve this problem it is more likely to do with Speidel web portal itself?
> 
> Instead in order to connect to the BM and successfully interact with it, the workaround is to roll back the firmware on the BM wifi module (further info here) and connect to the BM50 over LAN (anywhere i can join my wifi signal on the property). Obviously it would be ideal to connect via the Speidel portal on their current firmware etc so one can easily upload recipes and check on brew day progress from anywhere (Bunnings) but i couldn't figure out a fix for this, not to sure i'd want over 50L of wort on a rolling boil while i'm down at Bunnings anyway.



Hi WEF,
I have similar issue with shed 20m from the house so I put an extra router over there. But I run a 30m Ethernet cable from house router to shed router. No slave/repeater issues.

Never have any trouble now with good healthy wifi inside the shed for BM and anything else.
The cable isn’t pretty but it’s cheap and easy.


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## WEF

chookherder said:


> Hi W
> 
> 
> Hi WEF,
> I have similar issue with shed 20m from the house so I put an extra router over there. But I run a 30m Ethernet cable from house router to shed router. No slave/repeater issues.
> 
> Never have any trouble now with good healthy wifi inside the shed for BM and anything else.
> The cable isn’t pretty but it’s cheap and easy.



Thanks chookherder, yeah 1 last thing i'll try is wheeling the BM out towards the house (as long as my 15amp extension lead can go) and pick up the main WiFi signal from the house and see if that overcomes the Speidel portal issue...


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## zoigl

I have10 meter 20 amp cable especially made up, I found the extra heavy duty 15 amp cable not up to the job. (Bunnings cables are a no no!) I have found the connecting plugs got pretty warm
As far as the connection to wifi, I am waiting for the "official" method to solve the problem. I finally managed to fix my connection. I had 5to borrow a laptop with USB port to connect to the wifi unit and make the required update on the software. A long and tedious process.


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## WEF

zoigl said:


> I have10 meter 20 amp cable especially made up, I found the extra heavy duty 15 amp cable not up to the job. (Bunnings cables are a no no!) I have found the connecting plugs got pretty warm
> As far as the connection to wifi, I am waiting for the "official" method to solve the problem.


Yes you certainly want to limit any extension leads if possible or just run a thicker cable, a 20 amp cable will help reduce voltage drop due to cable length.

I bet if you did a conductor size and length calculation those Bunnings cables would only just meet standards, i'm surprised they make them that long actually... I don't run my BM50 with an extension cable, my 15amp outlet is beside the unit. Having said that though, i'Il do run two heating elements to heat approximately 150L of water for my Passata preserving each year (in a stainless steel 44 gallon drum) with the 3600w (15 amp) element running via a Bunnings 15 amp cable and the other "kettle element" 2400w connected straight to the 10amp GPO, they both get a little warm but not scary warm...


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## Orval

Anyone purchased the 10l Braumeister Plus lately?
I'm seriously considering picking up one and into last minute nerves on the commitment.

I really only make small batches so getting a 20l and small malt pipe doesn't make sense for me, easier to make batches and combine them for any rare occasion I need more. I'm mainly filling (and draining) 9.5l kegs with 5%ish ABV beer of different types.

Is the Plus really worth it? Looks like G&G are the only game in town from what I can see as far as getting one? Any tips/regrets/words of sage wisdom?


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## MHB

I've got the 10L one model back, just the basic not the plus.
Love it!
I mostly no-chill so the cooling jacket isnt all that useful to me. Not interested in running it from a phone or any of that.
Only change I would like to see is a bit bigger malt pipe, would be handy for higher gravity beers.
Mark


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## Orval

Thanks Mark. Do you find the losses when you drain to a cube OK with the v2 model?
Are you always up against the 10l beer to bottle/keg limit? Or it's not a big factor?


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## MHB

The tap is perhaps a little high, but a bit of careful tilting gets most of the wort into the cube.

For mine the limit is more often than not the amount of grain I can get into the malt pipe (~2.9kg max). I mostly brew higher alcohol beers for myself, so more often than not am only getting 6-8L.
A fair wack of the brewing I do is recipe development so how much I get isn’t really the point, might brew a beer 3-4 times before the recipe migrates to a bigger system. The smaller system means less waste as in truth I tip more than I drink - well until the recipe is spot on - none of that gets wasted.
Mark


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## razz

MHB said:


> The tap is perhaps a little high, but a bit of careful tilting gets most of the wort into the cube.
> 
> For mine the limit is more often than not the amount of grain I can get into the malt pipe (~2.9kg max). I mostly brew higher alcohol beers for myself, so more often than not am only getting 6-8L.
> A fair wack of the brewing I do is recipe development so how much I get isn’t really the point, might brew a beer 3-4 times before the recipe migrates to a bigger system. The smaller system means less waste as in truth I tip more than I drink - well until the recipe is spot on - none of that gets wasted.
> Mark


Tip it over here please?


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## Orval

It’s a real PITA trying to figure out minimim/maximum volume and grain amounts to conclusively decide between the BM 10/20l and short malt pipe!

~2.9kg doesn’t sound all that much really, just enough for around 5-6% - 10l beers on average maybe? But then if I get 20l and short malt pipe I’ll just be playing the same game with minimum volumes?

I’ll probably go the 10 and start saving for the 50.


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## MHB

Mate I know they cost (I traded work or a BM - cash poor) the build quality and reliability make them worth the cost.
I think you would be hard pressed finding anyone who regrets buying one, even people who sell them later for various reasons usually have good things to say about them.
Mark


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## Coalminer

Orval said:


> It’s a real PITA trying to figure out minimim/maximum volume and grain amounts to conclusively decide between the BM 10/20l and short malt pipe!
> 
> ~2.9kg doesn’t sound all that much really, just enough for around 5-6% - 10l beers on average maybe? But then if I get 20l and short malt pipe I’ll just be playing the same game with minimum volumes?
> 
> I’ll probably go the 10 and start saving for the 50.


If you are undecided be aware that the 10L will hold more grain than the small malt pipe 20L version
As Mark says the 10L holds about 2.9kg whereas the small malt pipe in a 20L model only holds about 2.5kg comfortably with good circulation
You can fit 2.7kg in if you turn the top filter plate over


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## Orval

Thanks guys, that's a great help with the detail on total grain. The 10l works better for me all round in light of that extra info.


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## Simon N

Folks any secret to the BM pump? I’ve got a new unit which I’ve had intermittent pump issues with. When I turn it on you can hear it spin for a second then stop for 10, spin again for a second and stop etc. When I get it working (maybe after 5 attempts of disassembling and retrying), I vent the pump per manual, clean after each brew, don’t have on when cooling, and it works fine for the brew. 

Any tips on how to resolve? Pump is clean, no visible damage, never run without water, no hop debris, etc


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## MHB

I think it might be going through an automatic air ejection cycle.
If you just turn it on and wait there is a good chance it will kick off and do its job.
There have been lots of various software versions over the years, the newer ones can be updated, which might be worth looking at if you have one of the more recent models.
Juts put some water in the BM (say up to the tap) set the unit to manual and turn on and leave alone and see what happens.
Mark


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## Simon N

Thanks Mark, that would make sense. Just tried again (turning on, no venting) and now can’t hear it spinning at all. When I switch pump off I can hear a slight sound, so makes me think it is blocked from spinning somehow. Visibly everything looks ok so I’m stumped. Have emailed the store I purchased from and will see what they say.

UPDATE: G&G said there's been a few units go out where the pump does not have the correct firmware installed. They're posting out a new pump today which should resolve the issue. Disappointing to have the issue but can't fault the customer service.


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## MHB

They had a pump problem a few years ago, the pumps are third party made in Italy and are a great little pump, unless they stuff up, which can happen.

BM have always been good at fixing any issues but yes it sucks when it happens to you.
Mark


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## me14

Does anyone else have issues doughing in? I recently bought a 10L brau and have noticed that when doughing in, once I get past approx 2kg of malt in the pipe, the malt becomes difficult to wet/stir in. I often end up using the filter plates to compress the grain bed in order to wet the malt.
I use 12L water per the manual and my beers haven't really exceeded 2.5kg of malt total. No issues with overall capacity, just takes a while to get mash going.
Anyone got any tips or tricks to doughing in?


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## Oz_UK

I can't speak for the 10L but for larger grain bills on the 20L once the malt pipe starts getting full or difficult to stir I pour about a litre from the BM tap into a jug then slowly add this back to the top of the malt pipe. Repeat as necessary to get all the grain in.


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## Simon N

I’ve used 2.8 kg grains in the 10L before. Just took it slowly, stirring a couple of times as filling. Have also used the empty some water out method before when I miscalculated the size of cooked rice for a rice lager.


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## GoodDuck

I have adjusted my process for thicker mashes. Using a bucket, I pour 1/2 to 2/3 of my grains into the water filled BM and then stir the thin "mash" with a mash paddle to remove any dough balls. I then pour water from the BM tap into my bucket with the rest of the grains until there is enough water to stir these grains easily. Again stir to remove any dough balls.
Then tip the bucket into the BM (may require additional rinsing of grains with water from BM) and proceed with the mash.


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## TheCraft

Simon N said:


> UPDATE: G&G said there's been a few units go out where the pump does not have the correct firmware installed. They're posting out a new pump today which should resolve the issue. Disappointing to have the issue but can't fault the customer service.



I got caught out by that too.


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## Simon N

TheCraft said:


> I got caught out by that too.


All sorted now? Mine’s running like a dream with the new pump.


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## TheCraft

Simon N said:


> All sorted now? Mine’s running like a dream with the new pump.



Yep - G&G gave me a pump off a shop unit!


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