# RecipeDB - Little Fella's Pale Ale



## argon

Little Fella's Pale Ale  Ale - American Pale Ale  All Grain               29 Votes        Brewer's Notes In Beersmith recipe comes out as OG 1.053 FG 1.013 IBU 47.9 EBC 12.0 5.21%ABV0 min additions are dry hopped   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      4 kg BB Ale Malt    1.1 kg Weyermann Munich I    0.3 kg BB Wheat Malt    0.3 kg Weyermann Carapils(Carafoam)       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      30 g Goldings, East Kent (Pellet, 5.0AA%, 60mins)    25 g Cascade (Pellet, 5.5AA%, 5mins)    25 g Chinook (Pellet, 13.0AA%, 5mins)    20 g Cascade (Pellet, 5.5AA%, 0mins)    20 g Chinook (Pellet, 13.0AA%, 0mins)    20 g Chinook (Pellet, 13.0AA%, 20mins)    15 g Cascade (Pellet, 5.5AA%, 10mins)    15 g Chinook (Pellet, 13.0AA%, 10mins)    10 g Cascade (Pellet, 5.5AA%, 20mins)    5 g Chinook (Pellet, 13.0AA%, 60mins)       Yeast     1000 ml Wyeast Labs 1056 - American Ale         23L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.059 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.015 (calc)   Bitterness 62.6 IBU   Efficiency 75%   Alcohol 5.72%   Colour 12 EBC   Batch Size 23L     Fermentation   Primary 14 days   Conditioning 4 days


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## m00t

Hi,

Did you get your grain cracked for this or did you mill to a flour?

Also its hard to get BB malt here and i have ready supply of JW, would JW pale malt and wheat malt be a suitable substitute?

Cheers


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## Sydneybrewer

interesting recipe never thought about bittering with goldings, what are they like to bitter with?


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## argon

Sydneybrewer said:


> going by the board was thinking of changing the recipe to
> 
> 1.5kg light LME
> 1.5kg amber LME
> 1kg wheat DME
> 25g East Kent Goldings 60min
> 25g Chinook 30min
> 50g Cascade flowers 15min
> US-05 Dry Ale Yeast



This is the photo I was going from when putting together the recipe. (looks like you have bittered with EKG before :icon_cheers: )

I don't really get any EKG from LCPA so thought that if it's included it's early in the boil and reasonably overpowered by the American hops. I have this tasted by a few other brewers and they reckon the flavour and aroma is pretty damn close. I think the colour is a bit darker than the original, which i've recently tried to tweak out, but no there yet.

@ m00t... As for the grain bill, the sub of BB for JW would be fine... i think i did a version once using JW and it was just as good... IIRC maybe a little paler. Grain is milled as per usual straight from Craftbrewer... no special treatment. Give it a try... very easy to drink... all those hops look a little scary in the hop sock, but i reckon it comes out pretty well balanced.


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## Sydneybrewer

Lol i changed the recipe. Before i brewed it like another 5 times and another 5 more times since brewing it again i bitter with the chinook and dont even add ekg at all now just loads of cascade


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## argon

Sydneybrewer said:


> Lol i changed the recipe. Before i brewed it like another 5 times and another 5 more times since brewing it again i bitter with the chinook and dont even add ekg at all now just loads of cascade



Yeah... i've been questioning the EKG..., if can't taste it, why use it?

Anyway here is where i'm currently at with this one. Doing double batches so that's why i've done it in percentages.

70% Pale Malt
20% Munich II (Munich I for a lighter batch)
5% Wheat Malt
5% CaraPils

Mash 66 60min
60min Boil

East Kent Goldings (60 min) 20IBU
Chinook (60 min) 10 IBU
Cascade (20 min) 5 IBU
Chinook (20 min) 5 IBU
Cascade (10 min) 5 IBU
Chinook (10 min) 5 IBU
Cascade (5 min) 5 IBU
Chinook (5 min) 5 IBU
45IBU

1.5g/L Cascade (0 min)
1.5g/L Cascade Dry Hops

US 05 @18C
1056 SG
1014 FG


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## Sydneybrewer

That looks pretty good actually let me know how it goes, i will have to throw one down i think


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## dashiznit

Hey lads. Just joined up been reading a bit here for a while.
Can anyone comment about this recipe? I love little creatures pale ale and want to make a clone. Is that really a photo from the brewery?

I'm doing partial extract at the moment and want to do a small batch of this. Has anyone tried doing it on the kitchen stovetop?


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## MarkBastard

Why would LC use EKG for bittering? Wouldn't make sense at all surely? They have Chinook which is much higher AA.

If that is a LC blackboard I would be thinking it'd have to be a really small amount of EKG as a later addition.


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## jayse

Mark^Bastard said:


> Why would LC use EKG for bittering? Wouldn't make sense at all surely? They have Chinook which is much higher AA.
> 
> If that is a LC blackboard I would be thinking it'd have to be a really small amount of EKG as a later addition.



Its been a very well known 'rumor' for years that supposedly its EKG for bittering.


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## argon

Mark%5EBastard said:


> Why would LC use EKG for bittering? Wouldn't make sense at all surely? They have Chinook which is much higher AA.
> 
> If that is a LC blackboard I would be thinking it'd have to be a really small amount of EKG as a later addition.



That's kinda what I thought... the commercial realities don't really make sense... surely that's exactly why they use Chinook - for the bittering. The thread i pulled that photo from mentions that ekg is used for bittering, coming from alot more experienced brewers than me. But as a I said earlier in here, I can't really detect any and would prefer not to use it, just to keep the cost of hops down for a single batch. i like to put my recipes together now so i don't have any wastage ie 90g lots. Or at least use packets of hops in multiple brews.


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## MarkBastard

jayse said:


> Its been a very well known 'rumor' for years that supposedly its EKG for bittering.



Understood. It just doesn't make sense to me.

That is unless there's something about EKG they really liked for bittering to the point they'd pay that much more for it. Surely they'd need triple the amount of EKG compared to some work horse bittering hop, and even at least twice as much as Chinook.


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## argon

dashiznit said:


> Hey lads. Just joined up been reading a bit here for a while.
> Can anyone comment about this recipe? I love little creatures pale ale and want to make a clone. Is that really a photo from the brewery?
> 
> I'm doing partial extract at the moment and want to do a small batch of this. Has anyone tried doing it on the kitchen stovetop?




Hey mate welcome.

As you can see here it seems as though this is a photo from the brewery. I didn't take it, can't remember who did though. 

If you want to do a smaller batch of this just follow NickJD's guide, something like "Moving to AG for under Thirty Bucks" Not sure if that's the exact thread title but i'm sure you'll be able to search and find it. Scaling it down for a half batch is pretty easy, just use the proportions I outlined earlier. For a clone use Munich I. Munich II will be too dark as a clone. Comes out about 5.5 SRM = reasonably light

70% Pale Malt
20% Munich II (Munich I for a lighter batch)
5% Wheat Malt
5% CaraPils

Mash 66 60min
60min Boil

East Kent Goldings (60 min) 20IBU
Chinook (60 min) 10 IBU
Cascade (20 min) 5 IBU
Chinook (20 min) 5 IBU
Cascade (10 min) 5 IBU
Chinook (10 min) 5 IBU
Cascade (5 min) 5 IBU
Chinook (5 min) 5 IBU
45IBU

1.5g/L Cascade (0 min)
1.5g/L Cascade Dry Hops

US 05 @18C
1056 SG
1014 FG

Edit; Probably should edit the recipedb, but it's a PITA


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## dashiznit

Thanks argon. Probably a stupid question, but do I just halve everything if Im going to make a half batch? I remember reading something about hop utilization and Im not sure if halving will make a difference. To be honest Im not really sure what that is, but anyway Ill give it a go. As my first ag I was probably going to do this little creatures pale ale or some kind of james squires golden ale. Theyre probably my 2 favourite beers.


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## jacknohe

I wondered about the reasoning as well when I took this photo in October 2009 while on holiday. I know the Chinook bittering can be a little rough but surely a cheaper bittering hop with a smooth character could be used.


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## argon

jacknohe said:


> I wondered about the reasoning as well when I took this photo in October 2009 while on holiday. I know the Chinook bittering can be a little rough but surely a cheaper bittering hop with a smooth character could be used.



GALAXY... WOW!!! That's the first time I've ever heard of that being added in the LCPA!! Good break down of the hop additions though. Maybe it's the sub for the Chinook (Tas) they mentioned on the first board

Maybe it's more like this:
60min Cascade and EKG to 15 IBU

Cascade (10 min) 10 IBU
Chinook (10 min) 10 IBU
Galaxy (10 min) 10 IBU

Cascade Hopback (seen a photo of 'em pooring whole US cascade into the hop back)
Chinook Hopback
Galaxy Hopback 

45IBU


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## MarkBastard

Wow that's certainly interesting.

I think if someone made a thread here asking for recipe feedback and had Cascade and EKG for bittering people would laugh.


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## mika

Linky

As mentioned by Jayse, the rumour about EKG bittering has been there for years. LC have never been overly concerned with the cost of the ingredients. If you look at the hoops they've jumped thru in the past to get the Cascade Flowers over here.
They've been using Galaxy for a little while now, especially when the hop shortage took hold, you could really taste the Galaxy, though it's obviously mixed in with the other late hops as well. Lately it doesn't show thru as much, but then they're also using a fair bit of Tassie grown cascade as well now.

Argon - I'd personally be aiming for more bitterness up front, unless you're sculling it down pretyy quick. I find late hops dissappear very quickly and it's usually better to have more bitterness at the 60min mark, that doesn't seem to fade as fast.


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## argon

mika said:


> Linky
> 
> Argon - I'd personally be aiming for more bitterness up front, unless you're sculling it down pretyy quick. I find late hops dissappear very quickly and it's usually better to have more bitterness at the 60min mark, that doesn't seem to fade as fast.




Gonna have to put aside some galaxy I just bought for the next batch of this... Ok how a bout this... 
I'm happy with the grain bill i think it works well. Probably not cloned but I reckon it'd be very nice

70% Pale Malt
20% Munich I
5% Wheat Malt
5% CaraPils

Mash 66 60min
60min Boil

East Kent Goldings (60 min) 15 IBU
Cascade (60 min) 15 IBU

Cascade (5min) 5 IBU
Chinook (5 min) 5 IBU
Galaxy (5 min) 5 IBU

45 IBU

1.5g/L Cascade (0min) Aroma steep
1.5g/L Chinook (0min) Aroma steep
1.5g/L Galaxy (0min) Aroma steep

1.5g/L Cascade Dry Hops
1.5g/L Chinook Dry Hops
1.5g/L Galaxy Dry Hops

US 05 @18C
1056 SG
1014 FG


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## donburke

argon said:


> Gonna have to put aside some galaxy I just bought for the next batch of this... Ok how a bout this...
> I'm happy with the grain bill i think it works well. Probably not cloned but I reckon it'd be very nice
> 
> 70% Pale Malt
> 20% Munich I
> 5% Wheat Malt
> 5% CaraPils
> 
> Mash 66 60min
> 60min Boil
> 
> East Kent Goldings (60 min) 15 IBU
> Cascade (60 min) 15 IBU
> 
> Cascade (5min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (5 min) 5 IBU
> Galaxy (5 min) 5 IBU
> 
> 45 IBU
> 
> 1.5g/L Cascade (0min) Aroma steep
> 1.5g/L Chinook (0min) Aroma steep
> 1.5g/L Galaxy (0min) Aroma steep
> 
> 1.5g/L Cascade Dry Hops
> 1.5g/L Chinook Dry Hops
> 1.5g/L Galaxy Dry Hops
> 
> US 05 @18C
> 1056 SG
> 1014 FG



although i cant taste any galaxy, thats not to say there isnt any in there, but i find galaxy to be a very dominant hop and it would probably overpower the other hops at that rate,

i would probably try less galaxy,


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## argon

donburke said:


> <br />although i cant taste any galaxy, thats not to say there isnt any in there, but i find galaxy to be a very dominant hop and it would probably overpower the other hops at that rate,<br /><br />i would probably try less galaxy,<br />


<br /><br /><br />

Yeah maybe... but i think 5 ibu is not heaps. Equals about 15g at 5 mins. So shouldn't dominate amongst the other 280g of hops chucked into a single batch... not sure about the aroma steep hops probably delete them and just dry hop

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: LCPA Clone
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 19.00 L 
Boil Size: 25.05 L
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 5.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 45.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 % 
1.00 kg Munich I (7.6 SRM) Grain 20.00 % 
0.25 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 % 
0.25 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.00 % 

21.00 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.0 IBU 
24.80 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10 %] (60 min) Hops 15.0 IBU 
15.70 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
16.30 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
38.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 

28.50 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops - 
28.50 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-SteeHops - 
28.50 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops - 

28.50 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
28.50 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
28.50 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 

1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Polyclar (Secondary 14.0 days) Misc 
1.00 tsp Salt (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


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## dashiznit

argon said:


> Hey mate welcome.
> 
> As you can see here it seems as though this is a photo from the brewery. I didn't take it, can't remember who did though.
> 
> If you want to do a smaller batch of this just follow NickJD's guide, something like "Moving to AG for under Thirty Bucks" Not sure if that's the exact thread title but i'm sure you'll be able to search and find it. Scaling it down for a half batch is pretty easy, just use the proportions I outlined earlier. For a clone use Munich I. Munich II will be too dark as a clone. Comes out about 5.5 SRM = reasonably light
> 
> 70% Pale Malt
> 20% Munich II (Munich I for a lighter batch)
> 5% Wheat Malt
> 5% CaraPils
> 
> Mash 66 60min
> 60min Boil
> 
> East Kent Goldings (60 min) 20IBU
> Chinook (60 min) 10 IBU
> Cascade (20 min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (20 min) 5 IBU
> Cascade (10 min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (10 min) 5 IBU
> Cascade (5 min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (5 min) 5 IBU
> 45IBU
> 
> 1.5g/L Cascade (0 min)
> 1.5g/L Cascade Dry Hops
> 
> US 05 @18C
> 1056 SG
> 1014 FG
> 
> Edit; Probably should edit the recipedb, but it's a PITA



I ended up doing this as my first BIAB. Everything went pretty well. I only did a half batch. I got 12L of 1050 into the fermenter, so if it gets down to around 1012 i'll be pretty happy. Used US05. After reading NickJD's guide i thought i'd give it a go with this recipe. Also downloaded the trial version of beersmith, so that made everything alot easier. Smelt beautiful in the kitchen when it was being cooked up. Fermenting now and i'm really looking forward to tasting in a few weeks.


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## argon

dashiznit said:


> I ended up doing this as my first BIAB. Everything went pretty well. I only did a half batch. I got 12L of 1050 into the fermenter, so if it gets down to around 1012 i'll be pretty happy. Used US05. After reading NickJD's guide i thought i'd give it a go with this recipe. Also downloaded the trial version of beersmith, so that made everything alot easier. Smelt beautiful in the kitchen when it was being cooked up. Fermenting now and i'm really looking forward to tasting in a few weeks.




Good stuff mate hope you enjoy it. After the recent revelation of seeing that LC add Galaxy to the Pale i reckon it's getting a bit too much. I reckon the recipe that you went for would be the pick of the bunch for me. Hope the fermenting works out well. Let us know how it turns out... i'm due to do another one of these soon.


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## dashiznit

argon said:


> Good stuff mate hope you enjoy it. After the recent revelation of seeing that LC add Galaxy to the Pale i reckon it's getting a bit too much. I reckon the recipe that you went for would be the pick of the bunch for me. Hope the fermenting works out well. Let us know how it turns out... i'm due to do another one of these soon.



Thanks Argon will let you know how it tastes. I really enjoyed doing an all grain. I won't be doing any kits any more. You never really know how easy all grain is until you give it a go. Anyone who wants to give AG a go should just dove in and do it. Sure it takes a bit more time, but the process is really enjoyable.

There seemed alot of hops in this boil, i had a lot of stuff floating around in there. I think the addition of more galaxy would be heaps. Smelt great and the sample i took before pouring into the fermenter tasted nice and sweet and had a great aroma. 
Here's hoping it turns out well.


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## argon

Last night found 2 bottles of this that i'd done in about December last year. I really wish i had the patience to letall my brews sit this long... fantastic... somehow better than the fresher ones. The bitterness was much smoother and i think the whole think was just a whole lot more balanced.


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## Acasta

Im interested in trying your recipe, but im going to try keep it simple and relatively simple as its my first AG, and to save on hops, other wise its about $25 of hops! haha.
Only thing is, are you able to give me a hand with converting this to a 23L batch or whatever? Im very new to this and can't figure out how. If you have this on beersmith could you send me the file?
Thanks mate. B) 

P.s. when i added up the IBUs i got 60  



argon said:


> Yeah... i've been questioning the EKG..., if can't taste it, why use it?
> 
> Anyway here is where i'm currently at with this one. Doing double batches so that's why i've done it in percentages.
> 
> 70% Pale Malt
> 20% Munich II (Munich I for a lighter batch)
> 5% Wheat Malt
> 5% CaraPils
> 
> Mash 66 60min
> 60min Boil
> 
> East Kent Goldings (60 min) 20IBU
> Chinook (60 min) 10 IBU
> Cascade (20 min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (20 min) 5 IBU
> Cascade (10 min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (10 min) 5 IBU
> Cascade (5 min) 5 IBU
> Chinook (5 min) 5 IBU
> 45IBU
> 
> 1.5g/L Cascade (0 min)
> 1.5g/L Cascade Dry Hops
> 
> US 05 @18C
> 1056 SG
> 1014 FG


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## felten

Acasta said:


> Im interested in trying your recipe, but im going to try keep it simple and relatively simple as its my first AG, and to save on hops, other wise its about $25 of hops! haha.
> Only thing is, are you able to give me a hand with converting this to a 23L batch or whatever? Im very new to this and can't figure out how. If you have this on beersmith could you send me the file?
> Thanks mate. B)
> 
> P.s. when i added up the IBUs i got 60



You can input the recipe to beersmith, then above the recipe view there is a scale button, it's just a matter of changing the batch size from 19 to 23 in the scale window.


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## argon

Acasta said:


> Im interested in trying your recipe, but im going to try keep it simple and relatively simple as its my first AG, and to save on hops, other wise its about $25 of hops! haha.
> Only thing is, are you able to give me a hand with converting this to a 23L batch or whatever? Im very new to this and can't figure out how. If you have this on beersmith could you send me the file?
> Thanks mate. B)
> 
> P.s. when i added up the IBUs i got 60


Mate on the iPhone right now... When I get to the beersmith pc I'll send you the file. That 's the good thing about writing recipes stating ibu and percentages... It's easily scalable to your system and ingredients.

I get your point about the amount of hops... Not cheap, but still a while lot cheaper than buying 23L of LCPA!!! And it'll be alot fresher IMHO


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## argon

Here you go... scaled for a 23L batch based on the AAs i have for my hops. Check your hops against these values and adjust as necessary. Also set the efficiency to 75%.

How will you be chilling?? No Chill or otherwise?? I no chill and always adjust my hop additions 15mins later than in the recipe. ie 60mins = 45mins and so on. With this one i do a 10 min French press and a 5 min French press into fermenter when pitching yeast. Comes out beautiful.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: LFPA 23L Batch
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.62 L
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 5.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.24 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 % 
1.21 kg Munich I (7.6 SRM) Grain 20.00 % 
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 % 
0.30 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.00 % 
8.50 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 10.0 IBU 
39.80 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10 %] (60 min) Hops 20.0 IBU 
36.00 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
36.00 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
14.00 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (20 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
7.00 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (20 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
23.50 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (10 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
11.80 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (10 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
21.40 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
42.50 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6.05 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 15.78 L of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C 


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Acasta

argon said:


> How will you be chilling?? No Chill or otherwise?? I no chill and always adjust my hop additions 15mins later than in the recipe. ie 60mins = 45mins and so on. With this one i do a 10 min French press and a 5 min French press into fermenter when pitching yeast. Comes out beautiful.


Is no-chill just leaving it for 24hrs? Because that's my plan. So i guess ill be delaying by 15min, but what happenes when you get to get 5min additions and stuff?
I have a french press, just wondering how you would go about using it?
Thanks for the conversion.


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## argon

Acasta said:


> Is no-chill just leaving it for 24hrs? Because that's my plan. So i guess ill be delaying by 15min, but what happenes when you get to get 5min additions and stuff?
> I have a french press, just wondering how you would go about using it?
> Thanks for the conversion.




I have done it in the past where i've just left the fermenter long enough till it cooled to pitching temps, but not best practice as it allows plenty of time for infections to set in. You can do it like this, many, many people do this and have never had a problem... just an increased risk is all. 

No chill is when you transfer the hot wort after boiling into a plastic (HDPE) jerry can right to the brim, squeeze out any air and seal it up. The heat from the wort will sanitize the container well enough to kill of any nasties. You can then pour this into the fermenter next day or whenever... i've got a NC Cube that's 6 moths old and no problems. Search No Chill for more info.

Essentially if you don't chill rapidly... ie with an immersion chiller, plate chiller or similar, you'll lose alot of the big hop flavour and aroma you'll get from those really late hops. You can keep the recipe the same and it'll still come out really nice. but if you want a really big hit of late hops... go for the french press

So assuming you get over to bunnings and buy yourself a 20L HDPE jerry container (which actually fits 23L) and a bit of tubing to transfer from your kettle, and you use the no chill method, the recipe should be adjusted to look something like this.

4.24 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 % 
1.21 kg Munich I (7.6 SRM) Grain 20.00 % 
0.30 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 % 
0.30 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.00 % 

8.50 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (*45 *min) Hops 10.0 IBU 
39.80 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10 %] (*45 *min) Hops 20.0 IBU 

14.00 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (*5* min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
7.00 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (*5* min) Hops 5.0 IBU 

23.50 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (10 min *french *press) Hops 5.0 IBU 
11.80 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (10 min *french *press) Hops 5.0 IBU 
21.40 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (5 min *french *press) Hops 5.0 IBU 
42.50 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (5 min *french *press) Hops 5.0 IBU 

36.00 gm Cascade [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
36.00 gm Chinook [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 

1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 


add the 10 min addition of hops to 1L french press (coffee plunger), then add about 600ml of boiling water. Wait 10 mins. press and pour this hop tea into the fermenter
then...
add the 5 min addition of hops to 1L french press (coffee plunger), then add about 600ml of boiling water. Wait 5 mins. press and pour this hop tea into the fermenter

do all this just after you've poured your wort from the NC Cube into the fermenter and add the 2 hop teas along with it.

Make sure you're pitching temp is all good... then chuck in your yeast.
Seal up your fermenter and you're away.

Good luck with it mate... would love to know how it turns out


----------



## Acasta

thats a great idea! I'll definetly french press after cooling. What do you do with the 5min and 10min hops after u press them? bin?
Also, in what areas can i cut down the hops and not loose too much flavour? as thats about $30 of hops for me, ontop of the $20 for malt, do these prices sound right to you?

Also, is cara-pils similar/same as caramalt?


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> thats a great idea! I'll definetly french press after cooling. What do you do with the 5min and 10min hops after u press them? bin?
> Also, in what areas can i cut down the hops and not loose too much flavour? as thats about $30 of hops for me, ontop of the $20 for malt, do these prices sound right to you?
> 
> Also, is cara-pils similar/same as caramalt?



If you want to save a bit. Ditch the east kent addition altogether... there is debate as to if this adds anything to the flavour profile anyway. I get all my hops from craftbrewers who sell in 90g packs. So i often adjust recipes to use divisibles or multiples of 90.

Keeping the grain the same and keeping the hops to 2 packs of 90g i'd go like this for the hops schedule. I've updated the AA as per Craftbrewer's latest batch using flowers for cascade and pellets for chinook. Notice no EKG

26.80 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (45 min) Hops 30.0 IBU 
12.40 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
7.30 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 

12.20 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (French Press 10 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
20.50 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (French Press 10 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
37.50 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (French Press 5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 
22.30 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (French Press 5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU 

19.60 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
21.40 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 

Same 60 IBU Total using 180g Hops from Craftbrewers = $18.40
little less dry hop but not the end of the world still have a heap of flavour and a heap of aroma... might even do this myself shorlty... seems reasonably economical for such a big flavoured beer. :icon_cheers: 

I bin my French press hops.. but some others BribieG especially has been doing experiments using the spent french press hops for bittering hops on the next batch. Just freezes them for later use. use the AHB Google search function for "French press" and you should com up with something.

Nah carapils is not caramalt... carapils balances body and flavor without adding color or sweetness. A lighter crystal type malt, the Dextrines add body, mouth-feel.


----------



## Acasta

Do you also get your Malt from Craftbrewer? How much do they charge for delivery?

I live near Greensborough Home Brew so im not sure whats cheaper. But Craftbrewer they are doing US-05 for 3.30 a packet haha


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> Do you also get your Malt from Craftbrewer? How much do they charge for delivery?



Obviously where you are and what you get makes a difference... either contact the guys over there and they'll let you know, or punch it in on the online shipping cart to find out. 

I always pick up mine by hand cause i'm local... even more local now


----------



## Acasta

My LHBS doesn't have Barrett Burston (according to their website), will it matter what i use for the base malt? can i sub joe white tradition ale in instead?


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> My LHBS doesn't have Barrett Burston (according to their website), will it matter what i use for the base malt? can i sub joe white tradition ale in instead?



Craftbrewer's don't stock JW... ergo i don't use it.. however i've heard good things.. should be fine


----------



## Acasta

hey argon im back with another question!
Instead of 'hop teaing' the 15-0min hops, can i do a mini 2L boil with a small rolling boil and just add that?


----------



## Acasta

bump my previous question.


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> hey argon im back with another question!
> Instead of 'hop teaing' the 15-0min hops, can i do a mini 2L boil with a small rolling boil and just add that?


Yeah don't see why not... That is essentially a hop tea anyway... Without the French press. I'd strain out the spent hops though. Through a sieve or piece of swiss voile should be fine.


----------



## Acasta

great, just double checking.
I do have a sieve i bought for hop removal .
Also, would it be a good idea to boil it in 2L of wort instead of water? will that even make a difference?


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> great, just double checking.
> I do have a sieve i bought for hop removal .
> Also, would it be a good idea to boil it in 2L of wort instead of water? will that even make a difference?




water will extract a different utilisation from the hops relative to wort. However if you use wort that has been pre-hopped, say the original wort that you've created for the rest of the batch... you'll increase the IBUs by continuing to boil the hop compounds contained within it.

For me if i would just do a hop tea with water... I have in the past just done it with a little bit of LDME... seems to smooth the bitterness a bit... not get such grassy notes. But done it plenty of times with water and experienced results just fine.

Either way is good.... just know you'll get slightly different results each time... and not always perceptible :icon_cheers:


----------



## Acasta

yeah, but i figure, if the wort has no hops left over in it, and liquid shouldn't bitter too much, definetly not enought to change it dramaticly i figure.


----------



## Phoney

Im going to give this one a go next  But with WLP001 instead of 1056 (because it's what I have in stock!)


----------



## argon

phoneyhuh said:


> Im going to give this one a go next  But with WLP001 instead of 1056 (because it's what I have in stock!)


WLP 001 vs 1056... Potaatoes... Potartoes pretty much same thing should be all good, nice clean, neautral yeast.

Been thinking that the latest version might be getting a bit bitter. I was to do this tomorrow I'd pair it back to about 40-45 ibu. And probably wouldn't to the latest version with galaxy... Old school LCPA is what I'm after.


----------



## Phoney

Which would be the latest one? The one in the DB, or one of the 8 that you've posted in this thread?


----------



## argon

phoneyhuh said:


> Which would be the latest one? The one in the DB, or one of the 8 that you've posted in this thread?



yeah i know... can't stop tinkering.  What I mean by latest one is Little Creature's latest variety of Pale Ale... which includes late additions of Galaxy.

The one in the DB has been tried and tested and comes up well IMHO... so go for that one... the rest is just my ramblings and an attempt on getting a little closer to the real thing. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Acasta

Hey hows your hop schedule look for the one with Chinook, cascade and galaxy?
I was thinking of trying this:

19L
Same malt bill

8.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (60 min) Hops 12.7 IBU 
8.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 12.5 IBU 
13.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 8.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (10 min) Hops 5.8 IBU 
10.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (10 min) Hops 5.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (5 min) Hops 4.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (5 min) Hops 4.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (0 min) Hops - 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
10.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 

Thoughts?


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> Hey hows your hop schedule look for the one with Chinook, cascade and galaxy?
> I was thinking of trying this:
> 
> 19L
> Same malt bill
> 
> 8.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (60 min) Hops 12.7 IBU
> 8.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 12.5 IBU
> 13.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 8.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (10 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
> 10.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (10 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
> 10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
> 15.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (5 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
> 15.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (5 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
> 15.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
> 10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (0 min) Hops -
> 10.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (0 min) Hops -
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (0 min) Hops -
> 10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
> 10.00 gm Chinook [13.00%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.20%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
> 
> Thoughts?



yeah looks pretty good... consensus is though that Galaxy does dominate a bit over other hops.. I'm into my second keg of cube hop single addition Galaxy APA now and the hop really does punch out... tried mixing 50/50 it with a not so good irish ale and just get galaxy coming through....give it a go will be tasty no matter what. :icon_cheers: will be interested to know how the combo works together.


----------



## Acasta

Hmm, maybe ill drop the late galaxy additions back abit.
Not sure when ill get around to it but ill let you know.

My first LCPA with all Cascade and Chinook is ready friday


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> Hmm, maybe ill drop the late galaxy additions back abit.
> Not sure when ill get around to it but ill let you know.
> 
> My first LCPA with all Cascade and Chinook is ready friday



Good luck with it hope it turns out good... Cascade and Chinook is a great combo :icon_cheers:


----------



## MarkBastard

I'll be doing this one next I think. Two reasons, one is that LCPA is probably my favourite session beer at the moment, and secondly I have an absolute abundance of EKG, Chinook and Cascade. So it just seems like the perfect recipe.

With that in mind what is in your opinion your best recipe using those hops (no Galaxy) and no chilling?


----------



## Acasta

I half chilled, so i did all my additions 5 min later, as i chilled in my kettle in an ice bath.
The one i made Mark was this:

Malt as before

Hops:
26.80 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (45 min) Hops 30.0 IBU
12.40 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
7.30 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU

12.20 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (French Press 10 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
20.50 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (French Press 10 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
37.50 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (French Press 5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
22.30 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (French Press 5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU

19.60 gm Cascade [7.60 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
21.40 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -


----------



## argon

Mark%5EBastard said:


> I'll be doing this one next I think. Two reasons, one is that LCPA is probably my favourite session beer at the moment, and secondly I have an absolute abundance of EKG, Chinook and Cascade. So it just seems like the perfect recipe.
> 
> With that in mind what is in your opinion your best recipe using those hops (no Galaxy) and no chilling?



I've been meaning to updated the DB with the latest and IMO best iteration of this recipe... i too am not a fan of adding Galaxy here... 

Done some version of this 5 times and i've done the following one twice without tweaking and i'm pretty happy with it...It's now locked in Beersmith. 

IBUs are about right i think. I like the Cascade AND Chinook in the aroma, despite evidence that LC only use Cascade in the hop back.

I'll do it again soon too. After a Roger's Clone and a Black IPA. 

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: LFPA House Batch
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.95 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 12.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 47.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.00 kg Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (6.0 EBC) Grain 70.18 % 
1.10 kg Munich I Malt (Weyermann) (14.5 EBC) Grain 19.30 % 
0.30 kg Carapils Malt (Weyermann) (4.0 EBC) Grain 5.26 % 
0.30 kg Wheat Malt Pale (Weyermann) (4.0 EBC) Grain 5.26 % 

30.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 14.9 IBU 
5.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (60 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 2.8 IBU 
10.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (20 min) Hops 7.1 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.5 IBU 
15.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
20.00 gm Chinook [11.40 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 

1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.70 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 32.00 L of water at 67.9 C 65.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 2 min 75.6 C 


Notes:
------
NC Cube adjustments - minus 15 mins from all additions
10 min and 5 min done as french press into fermenter at pitching

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Any tweaking i would possibly do from here is just to up the 60min Chinook and delete the EKG... just to save on hops. Then maybe try some different yeasts.


----------



## argon

Just uploaded the Beersmith file of the above recipe in another thread

so here it is again

View attachment LFPA.bsm


----------



## boriskane

just thought id let you know that Alex T from lc just posted this comment regarding lcpa hops:

"And for the hop interested - just to clarify - yes, there is variation from year to year with all hops, and every year we have to tweak. The blend for the past couple of years has been pretty similar with a dose of EKG for a portion of the kettle hop (along with Cascade), and Cascade and Galaxy for the hopback (we haven't used Chinook for a couple of years now)."

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...40&start=40


----------



## argon

boris kane said:


> just thought id let you know that Alex T from lc just posted this comment regarding lcpa hops:
> 
> "And for the hop interested - just to clarify - yes, there is variation from year to year with all hops, and every year we have to tweak. The blend for the past couple of years has been pretty similar with a dose of EKG for a portion of the kettle hop (along with Cascade), and Cascade and Galaxy for the hopback (we haven't used Chinook for a couple of years now)."
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...40&start=40




yeah thanks mate... I saw this thread. Still prefer the 'older' version of LCPA though. Might try it one day with galaxy subbed for chinook... but i love chinook so much it'll be hard to do.


----------



## MarkBastard

I'll hopefully be filtering/kegging this tonight.


----------



## argon

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'll hopefully be filtering/kegging this tonight.



nice one Mark... hope it turns out well.

Geez... i'm hanging out for a nice hoppy sessionable APA at the moment... nothing but a couple of german lagers a kolsch and a cider on tap at home at the moment.... i need my 'C' hops!! :icon_drool2:


----------



## MarkBastard

Yeah totally, I'm looking forward to it.

Only problem is I screwed up the 'french press' addition. Basically I think it was meant to be like 50g of hops. So I bought a french press, put the hops in, poured boiling water in and then the boiling water was only really enough to hydrate the hop pellets. So I put more in, but anyway it ended up being the case that even after pressing only a small amount of hop tea came out :-( I was gunna boil the kettle again but thought that may cause other problems. Hopefully the dry hopping does enough, I reckon it will.


----------



## argon

Mark^Bastard said:


> Yeah totally, I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> Only problem is I screwed up the 'french press' addition. Basically I think it was meant to be like 50g of hops. So I bought a french press, put the hops in, poured boiling water in and then the boiling water was only really enough to hydrate the hop pellets. So I put more in, but anyway it ended up being the case that even after pressing only a small amount of hop tea came out :-( I was gunna boil the kettle again but thought that may cause other problems. Hopefully the dry hopping does enough, I reckon it will.




yeah pellets are a PITA for french pressing... i too learnt the hard way... my preference now is to do a mini boil around 3L or so of some 1040 wort. Add the hops to the boil then dump the lot in with the rest of the cube.


----------



## MarkBastard

argon said:


> yeah pellets are a PITA for french pressing... i too learnt the hard way... my preference now is to do a mini boil around 3L or so of some 1040 wort. Add the hops to the boil then dump the lot in with the rest of the cube.



At pitching time? not a bad idea. Thought about boiling some of the cube wort?


----------



## felten

no harm tipping the whole thing in


----------



## argon

Mark^Bastard said:


> At pitching time? not a bad idea. Thought about boiling some of the cube wort?




yep at pitching... i just cool the unopened cube in the fridge overnight before pitching the mini-boil. This brings it in about the right temp for pitching ale yeast. 

I NC in 17L cubes so to get 20L into fermenter i top up with 3L water... but if i want super late hop profile... i do a 3L mini-wort boiled for 10min with late hop additions.

I used an excel water temp calculator to work out that 17L of 4C plus 3L of 93C equals 20L of 18C.
I use 93C cause the boil loses a few degrees pretty quickly as it comes off the boil. Otherwise adding the hot min-wort to the fermenter with the cube will bring it in to about 29C = BAD

I figure this is ultra fast chilling and captures a good deal of flavour and aroma from the additions i made in the miniboil.

I'll probably be doing another one this weekend for my cubed Black IPA.

I don't like opening the cube unitll the very last moment i have to... so for me i don't want to re-boil some of it... should work though


----------



## argon

felten said:


> no harm tipping the whole thing in



sorry as above... you don't want to be doing this as temps will be too high for pitching


----------



## felten

If you do it at pitching, you're probably right.


----------



## dashiznit

Forgot to get back to this thread and let everyone know how it tasted. 

I had trouble side by side with a store bought one tasting the difference and a few of my mates who do kits couldn't believe that it was homebrew. 

I had to show them how i did it. I think i may have converted a few of them too.

I think i only have about 3 bottles left now. It's amazing how quick i drank this batch compared to the kits and bits. It was just too nice. Better than most of the beers i can buy in the shops.

I really like cascade and might put down another one soon and just use all cascade, just for an experiment.


----------



## Acasta

This is my fav recipe to date.
I think the French press is not a bad idea, when what i did was just draw some wort off into a pot and do a mini boil. then quick cool and add before pitching.
Its more work, but i think it works better.


----------



## MarkBastard

Mine is tasting great, probably the best beer I've ever made, but I reckon it's a little different to the commercial version. Makes me think the commercial one has a lot less Chinook than I thought it did.

I reckon with Galaxy being Australian they use more of that now, as well as Tasmanian Cascade which no doubt has a different flavour too.

I prefer my version to LCPA and that's a big call cause I love LCPA. That said it's not a fair test unless I'm comparing something on tap at the Little Creatures brewery to mine I reckon. Something fresh and not bottled.

Still, I can only get the bottled version readily here and I like my home brew version better. Can't complain about that.

The keg hopping puts this one over the finish line.


----------



## argon

Alex T said:


> snip... And for the hop interested - just to clarify - yes, there is variation from year to year with all hops, and every year we have to tweak. The blend for the past couple of years has been pretty similar with a dose of EKG for a portion of the kettle hop (along with Cascade), and Cascade and Galaxy for the hopback (we haven't used Chinook for a couple of years now).
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Alex




That sucks... no more chinook in the LCPA :angry:


----------



## ramu_gupta

Have to agree...One of the best beers I've made... didn't last long at all and too many of my mates were drinking it.
Must do another ASAP.
Great work Argon.


----------



## dashiznit

Finished my batch a few weeks ago and wouldn't mind trying the galaxy version. Has anyone done it? And does it taste like the current LCPA? Or do you think it's just worth doing the "original" recipe with chinook?


----------



## Phoney

Ive done a side-by-side.

Close, but no cigar. The real McCoy tastes slightly sharper, less malty and has a bit more aroma, but both were equally as enjoyable. That was the opinion of about 4 of my mates & yours truly.
.


----------



## argon

Just saw this now... No I haven't done a galaxy version... Not really on the cards to be honest. I really like chinook and would be totally different without it. Galaxy gives a totally different profile to what I think Lcpa should be. But by all means give it a crack and let us know how it goes.

@phoneyhuh... Did you mean the recipe in the db vs real lcpa or the galaxy version vs chinook? 

The point of the recipe is not really to clone the beer as it is now but to clone the beer as it used to be. From what I remember this one gets pretty close.. But really happy to receive feedback. Always room for improvement.
Cheers.
A


----------



## Phoney

argon said:


> @phoneyhuh... Did you mean the recipe in the db vs real lcpa or the galaxy version vs chinook?



The one in the db vs the real deal. (I cant really remember what the old real one was like)

Next time I will try the version with the late galaxy & see how it compares, i'll also chill it properly rather than dick around with a french press & a cube.... But dont get me wrong, im not at all disappointed with what ive got!

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## Lecterfan

My version of your DB recipe has come out great...only 2 weeks in the bottle so I'm expecting some of the "aggressiveness" of the chinook to calm down after another 4 weeks or so. Even still i drank a long neck of it and then 3 pints of the current commercial version and was surprised how bland it was by comparison. The nose/aroma of mine was HEAPS better...just need to wait for some of the chinookiness (what a great word) to calm down.

Cheers.

Chinookiness - a word my g/f is going to have to learn. An adjective as in "turn up the chinookiness" of that motherf*cker (when drinking a beer).


----------



## argon

Chinookness... Love it!!! Just Kegged a black ipa with late chinook and had to stop myself from drumming straight from the fermenter... mmm sooo good.

Also, interesting phoneyhuh's note on the aroma difference between the real lcpa and his brew. Probably no chill like you said. Might get a chiller one day myself... Be nice to note if there really is a big difference.


----------



## Filby

Gday all!

I did this recipe as my first AG and just wanted to ask about the bitterness. Mines i just 2 days out of the fermenter but the bitterness is kicking my arse. Its pretty intense and you can still feel it on the tongue after about 10mins. Is this normal and will the aging sort it out?


Cheers

Fil


----------



## argon

Firstly, good one on your first AG. :icon_cheers: 

This beer is supposed to be quite bitter and hop forward, but never over the top and blowing your head off. However, I reckon the bitterness will probably calm after a couple of weeks, but hard to tell without tasting it. 

A little more info on what you ended up doing might help out with some diagnosis.
What was the final recipe you used?
What were your critical numbers? ie volumes, gravities, hop AA%
What was your chilling method?
Are you kegging or bottling?
Did you fine and/or filter?


----------



## MarkBastard

Filby said:


> Gday all!
> 
> I did this recipe as my first AG and just wanted to ask about the bitterness. Mines i just 2 days out of the fermenter but the bitterness is kicking my arse. Its pretty intense and you can still feel it on the tongue after about 10mins. Is this normal and will the aging sort it out?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Fil



Pour a glass, cover the top with glad wrap then leave it in the fridge for an hour (so it goes more flat).

Does it still taste too bitter?

Because it could be a carbonation + bitterness issue. I've overcarbed beers before and thought they were too bitter but it was just the carbonation.


----------



## Filby

Cheers Argon,

I used your final recipe and tried to follow it to the letter. Here is the overview.

Firstly, it was BIAB.
33lts at 65deg, steeped grain for an hour, then over a few mins brought the temp up for mashout, removed BIAB bag and let drain into kettle. SG was 1.056 @70deg
29lts, boiled for 60mins with hop additions added at the correct intervals.
18lts, syphoned into no-chill cube with 2lt loss to trub.
Quick chilled in tub with running water (didnt want to wait till the next morning to pitch)
Syphoned into fermenter and lost another 2lt to trub so ended up with 17lts. Added 2lts of cool boiled water to bring the volume up and ended up around 1.050.
Pitched US05 yeast @ 22deg and fermented @ 20deg. Finished in 4-5days at 1.012. Dryhopped in fermenter for 2 days then moved to keg and into fridge for conditioning. No fining agents used or filtering (dont have the equipment yet).

EKG plugs @ AA 5.2%
Cascade Pellets @ AA 5.0%
Chinook pellets @ AA 11.4%


Cheers

Fil


----------



## Filby

Mark^Bastard said:


> Pour a glass, cover the top with glad wrap then leave it in the fridge for an hour (so it goes more flat).
> 
> Does it still taste too bitter?
> 
> Because it could be a carbonation + bitterness issue. I've overcarbed beers before and thought they were too bitter but it was just the carbonation.



Hi Mark

Its currently uncarbonated. I dont know if that makes it worse or better? Its also unaged, but Im not sure if its meant to be this bitter to begin with (being inexperienced).


----------



## argon

Good info mate. Still reckon that it will blend a little more with a little conditioning. 

However a few things to consider;
Firstly, It looks like you got around 68% efficiency. Your target SG was 1055 you've hit 1050. This will essentially have 2 effects. (as calculated in Beersmith)
1. you'll end up with beer at around 4.8% instead of target 5.5% (nothing to be concerned about really)
2. you'll have extracted a touch more bitterness from your hops. You achieved 44IBU Target 42IBU. (again hardly anything really)
Although, what this will end up doing is tipping the balance of IBU/SG towards the bitterness. You achieved .878 where the target is .765. A balance of IBU/SG of .878 is verging on IPA territory. So obviously balanced toward bitterness.

Secondly, another point to look at is compensating for your chilling method. I no chill and compensate by subtracting 15mins to all my hop additions. eg 60min addition = 45min, 0min = 15min. However you said you chilled in a tub. Unless it chilled very rapidly you'll still be extracting alot of bitterness from the late hops.

Third, Chinook can be perceived quite bitter by it's flavour profile and with a big late hit... you may be getting this... in my opinion it's a good thing. As i've read before on this board "Chinook is the death-star of bitterness". I've also found that sometimes with Chinook it even throws a little perceived bitterness when dry hopping.

I'm sure it will still end up being a tasty beer once things blend a little in time.

Let us know how it develops.
Cheers
:icon_cheers:


----------



## Filby

Cheers Argon

Ive got a shed load of stuff to learn, I have no idea how you obtained those numbers! I'll take some taste samples over the next few weeks and keep you updated. Looking forward to having my first non-K&K-twang beer 

Edit: Oh and I cooled it to pitching temps in about 1.5hrs.


Fil


----------



## MarkBastard

Filby said:


> Hi Mark
> 
> Its currently uncarbonated. I dont know if that makes it worse or better? Its also unaged, but Im not sure if its meant to be this bitter to begin with (being inexperienced).



Could be an issue in that case but I'd be tasting it as a carbed and cold beer before passing any judgement.


----------



## MarkBastard

I've noticed that with Chinook too argon. It's why I love it!


----------



## argon

Mark^Bastard said:


> I've noticed that with Chinook too argon. It's why I love it!



Get you're hands on a Mikkeler Single Hop IPA - Chinook... 100IBU of Chinook goodness. I think Platform Bar has it. Would love to do a clone of that one day. I've got the recipe so should do it soon.


----------



## argon

Filby said:


> Cheers Argon
> 
> Ive got a shed load of stuff to learn, I have no idea how you obtained those numbers! I'll take some taste samples over the next few weeks and keep you updated. Looking forward to having my first non-K&K-twang beer
> 
> Edit: Oh and I cooled it to pitching temps in about 1.5hrs.
> 
> 
> Fil




If you're planning to continue down the AG path the i can't stress enough how good it is to use decent brewing software. Here's the link to Beersmith, where all the calcs came from in above post.

That's decent time in getting to pitching temp, so you would have slowed/stopped utilisation in reasonable time and locked in some good aroma. 

M^B gives good advice... chilled, conditioned and carbed will definitely assist in balancing the beer.


----------



## Lecterfan

Mines now just over 3 weeks in the bottle and is magnificent...at only 10 days in the bottle it made my arsehole pucker. I suspect the late chinookiness adds to the perceived bitterness as Argon stated above, but certainly some patience and minimal conditioning has helped this beer along. So far I would say that as a function of improved skills/experience AND the quality of the recipe this is the nicest beer I've brewed so far, followed closely by Tony's LCBA (having said that, these types of beer suit my taste). I will be doing two more batches of this very soon as it is an easy drinker with a BIG profile and something to impress friends and family with (...and that at 3 weeks I've drunk a third of the batch -damn I wish I had kegs!!!).


----------



## bear09

Once again I have to ask - how do you make beers with 50IBU and not hit the floor when you drink it?

I make beers with 30 IBU and sometimes find them to be heavily bitter. I have soft Melbourne water and I add salts to my brew.

I just dont understand how recipe's like this can be pulled off.


----------



## MarkBastard

bear09 said:


> Once again I have to ask - how do you make beers with 50IBU and not hit the floor when you drink it?
> 
> I make beers with 30 IBU and sometimes find them to be heavily bitter. I have soft Melbourne water and I add salts to my brew.
> 
> I just dont understand how recipe's like this can be pulled off.



A lot of the answer is really to 'man up' or to put it more politely, develop a palate for bitter beers.

I made a beer somewhat similar to this (hops used) to 65 IBU with NO crystal. Just Ale malt and Munich II, and then I did that 100 shots in 100 minutes thing with it.


----------



## Aus_Rider_22

bear09 said:


> Once again I have to ask - how do you make beers with 50IBU and not hit the floor when you drink it?
> 
> I make beers with 30 IBU and sometimes find them to be heavily bitter. I have soft Melbourne water and I add salts to my brew.
> 
> I just dont understand how recipe's like this can be pulled off.



Being balanced with the correct malt profile helps alot.

What were the recipes of the 30IBU beers that were a bit too bitter for you?


----------



## bear09

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Being balanced with the correct malt profile helps alot.
> 
> What were the recipes of the 30IBU beers that were a bit too bitter for you?




76% Golden Promise
19% Munich 1
4% Cara aroma

Mashed at 68. US05 dried yeast at 18 degs. 36 IBU's and its so bitter its not enjoyable. Perhaps there is something wrong with it.

It finished at 1017 and still just tatses bitter.


----------



## argon

Mark^Bastard said:


> A lot of the answer is really to 'man up' or to put it more politely, develop a palate for bitter beers.



:lol: it was only a matter of time before someone said that!! I remember in my early days of brewing i picked up an IPA fresh wort kit. before i brewed it i tried a couple of JS IPAs and the bitterness was too much. So i brought the kit back and swapped it back for an Aussie Pale Ale. I now have a Black IPA at 70IBU on tap that goes down like mother's milk and enjoy the Mikeller single hop varieties at 100IBU. I've ended up loving the bitterness once my palate developed a bit... i'm sure alot have experienced the same



Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Being balanced with the correct malt profile helps alot.




+1 here... balance is undoubtedly the key



bear09 said:


> 76% Golden Promise
> 19% Munich 1
> 4% Cara aroma
> 
> Mashed at 68. US05 dried yeast at 18 degs. 36 IBU's and its so bitter its not enjoyable. Perhaps there is something wrong with it.
> 
> It finished at 1017 and still just tatses bitter.



That actually sounds really tasty... could imagine that with some 1469... :icon_drool2:


----------



## MarkBastard

Yeah for sure, that recipe sounds awesome.


----------



## Filby

Amazing what a couple of days maturing and a bit of carbonation will do. Now very drinkable (at 8:30am)!

The beer is amazing. Great flavours and the head is like beaten egg whites. Not only that, there's actual microbubbles in the beer that I have never seen before in a K&K crapola beer.

Pretty stoked for my first All-grain. Thanks Argon for a great recipe!





Cheers 
Fil


----------



## argon

Filby said:


> Amazing what a couple of days maturing and a bit of carbonation will do. Now very drinkable (at 8:30am)!
> 
> The beer is amazing. Great flavours and the head is like beaten egg whites. Not only that, there's actual microbubbles in the beer that I have never seen before in a K&K crapola beer.
> 
> Pretty stoked for my first All-grain. Thanks Argon for a great recipe!
> 
> View attachment 42813
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Fil




Filby... that looks fekkin' awesome! Love it when it gets that rich creamy dense head on it. That little bit of wheat and all those hops really help with good head formation and retention.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## SG9090

Hi Argon,

Im going to have a crack at this one right now just wondering is post 55 your preferred recipe?


----------



## argon

Yeah mate that's the best one I reckon. Should be the same as in the db. Just the calcs work out a bit different. Bought some cascade and some chinook this morning for this soon myself. 

Good luck with it... Hope it turns out well.


----------



## Arghonaut

Gah made a mistake, about to mashout and i was throwing out the empty grain bags, and in my haste i realised i put in caramunich 1 instead of munich 1. That'll teach me to brew on xmas eve.

Wondering what to do...... split into halves, add some light dry malt and do a double batch?


----------



## Arghonaut

Arghonaut said:


> Gah made a mistake, about to mashout and i was throwing out the empty grain bags, and in my haste i realised i put in caramunich 1 instead of munich 1. That'll teach me to brew on xmas eve.
> 
> Wondering what to do...... split into halves, add some light dry malt and do a double batch?




Calculated if i split it into two halves, add 1.5kg of ldme and 0.5kg of wheat malt extract and top up to 23 litres, ill get an OG of 1058 and the caramunich will be down to 11%, still high but should be drinkable??

Going to try galaxy and nz organic cascade in one half as i dont have enough chinook for both.


----------



## SG9090

May be a bit late now though, go easy on the Galaxy if late in the boil


----------



## argon

Did a batch of this yesterday and is happily fermenting away now in the fridge. Dropped the EKG and made up the difference with a touch more chinook. Been ages since i did my last batch... and first since i went 3V. The colour of the wort into the fermenter was beautiful and the aroma was great... can't wait to dump in a heap of dry hops and turn this one out in a few weeks.


----------



## Acasta

Had another batch of this in the fermenter 1 week, 1 week CC and 1 week bottle, taste tested and im not quite sure whats going on. Further inspection will be had. I might have mashed wrong, or maybe not enough hops. We'll see.


----------



## argon

Acasta said:


> Had another batch of this in the fermenter 1 week, 1 week CC and 1 week bottle, taste tested and im not quite sure whats going on. Further inspection will be had. I might have mashed wrong, or maybe not enough hops. We'll see.




What's the problem then?? Mashed wrong?... Hops? How so? 
I once did a batch of this that had a fair whack of DMS from not maintaining a rolling boil. Using lightly coloured malts, have to be careful. Now i have a very healthy boil going on... never had it again.


----------



## manticle

Acasta said:


> Had another batch of this in the fermenter 1 week, 1 week CC and 1 week bottle, taste tested and im not quite sure whats going on. Further inspection will be had. I might have mashed wrong, or maybe not enough hops. We'll see.



Next time I would leave another 3-7 days at ferment temps before crash chilling. No need to rush chilling once you hit FG - the yeast is still working.

What do you mean 'mashed wrong'? What's actually wrong?


----------



## Acasta

argon said:


> What's the problem then?? Mashed wrong?... Hops? How so?
> I once did a batch of this that had a fair whack of DMS from not maintaining a rolling boil. Using lightly coloured malts, have to be careful. Now i have a very healthy boil going on... never had it again.






manticle said:


> Next time I would leave another 3-7 days at ferment temps before crash chilling. No need to rush chilling once you hit FG - the yeast is still working.
> 
> What do you mean 'mashed wrong'? What's actually wrong?



Not %100 sure of the problem yet. I've only tried it last night. Just didn't seem very clean on the malt side of things. I have a feeling its to do with my process not the recipe.


----------



## manticle

How long to condition?


----------



## Guysmiley54

The ibu for this recipe seems high, is the original LCPA really this bitter? I love LCPA, but this recipe seems pretty full on!! I have up to this point stopped my recipes at 40 ibu and found this to be at my (current?) threshold for bitterness.

If I were to scale this recipe at 35-40 ibu, should I adjust the flavour and aroma additions? If I do scale, should I consider lowering the crystal amounts too?


----------



## Acasta

manticle said:


> How long to condition?



Sorry? Its been CCed one week and in bottles one more.



Guysmiley54 said:


> The ibu for this recipe seems high, is the original LCPA really this bitter? I love LCPA, but this recipe seems pretty full on!! I have up to this point stopped my recipes at 40 ibu and found this to be at my (current?) threshold for bitterness.
> 
> If I were to scale this recipe at 35-40 ibu, should I adjust the flavour and aroma additions? If I do scale, should I consider lowering the crystal amounts too?


This recipe balences quite well with the current IBUs and crystal. Its not just the IBUs that determine the end product, its more the balance.


----------



## Guysmiley54

Acasta said:


> Sorry? Its been CCed one week and in bottles one more.
> 
> 
> This recipe balences quite well with the current IBUs and crystal. Its not just the IBUs that determine the end product, its more the balance.



Maybe I should just man up eh?

No guts, no glory! :kooi:


----------



## argon

When I first did this recipe I thought it may come out too bitter... But as acasta has said, it balances surprisingly well. Give it a shot and I think you'll be pretty happy with it.


----------



## Guysmiley54

I won't change a thing then :icon_cheers: 

Off to the LHBS I go...


----------



## manticle

Acasta said:


> Sorry? Its been CCed one week and in bottles one more.



I would suggest that it's too early to tell (although I can't taste what you're tasting) - give it another whirl in a few weeks and see if you still think you mashed wrong.


----------



## Acasta

manticle said:


> I would suggest that it's too early to tell (although I can't taste what you're tasting) - give it another whirl in a few weeks and see if you still think you mashed wrong.



Yeah i guess. I wasn't really looking for fix just yet really, more just venting my disappointment.


----------



## Lecterfan

Hey Acasta, I have to say the difference (for me) in taste/profile/overall smoothness and deliciousness (?) between 7 days in the bottle and 28 days in the bottle of this recipe is amazing. It blends together and smooths right out without losing the dry hop punch. I have two batches of this under my belt and can forsee myself doing it fairly regularly (with a few minor experiments and mods along the way). Bravo! :icon_drunk:


----------



## Guysmiley54

Well, it's in my ferment fridge chilling. Will pitch it tonight when the temp is cool enough. Ferment at 17 or 18 on this one? Smelled great in the kettle, had to sub magnum for bittering as I had run out of EKG everything else I followed to the letter.

I bought my first mill today, a carona mill, really made brew day fun  I know many on here have much fancier mills but I had borrowed a carona on a few occasions and feel it works well enough for me at this stage.


----------



## argon

Wel done gs54!! If you're using us05 or equivalent 18c is the sweet spot. The batch I have in the fridge now on 05 is rocketing along... Giving a 2inch krausen and nice bulge on the gladwrap. Smells sooo good when I open the door for a look. Got a black ipa and tweaked version of tony's lcba in there too, so it's cascade city!!

Btw, jury's still out for me as to whether I can tell the diff using EKG or not. Magnum is a clean bittering hop and will be good.


----------



## Guysmiley54

argon said:


> Wel done gs54!! If you're using us05 or equivalent 18c is the sweet spot. The batch I have in the fridge now on 05 is rocketing along... Giving a 2inch krausen and nice bulge on the gladwrap. Smells sooo good when I open the door for a look. Got a black ipa and tweaked version of tony's lcba in there too, so it's cascade city!!
> 
> Btw, jury's still out for Mensa to whether I can tell the diff using EKG or not. Magnum is a clean bittering hop and will be good.



Cheers mate! You know, I tasted the pre ferment hydro sample and I don't reckon it's overly aggressive (at this stage) anyway, sweet malt and a citrus floral bitterness that matches pretty well :icon_drool2:

Thanks all, will post updates as I go.

PS It may interest you to know that I have brewed 5 APA batches so far and this is the first time I've really used Cascade!! (Amarillo, Simcoe, Galaxy and Citra are nice but Cascade is smelling great :icon_drunk: )


----------



## Guysmiley54

OK, I'm down to 1018 and it's tasting great :icon_drool2: I'm thinking tomorrow will be the day for dry hopping...

Has anyone done a version of this without the dry hopping? I'm low on stocks and planning on cracking a few at 2 weeks in the bottle but mostly drinking around 4-6 weeks. I have found that with super hoppy beers, it takes quite a bit longer for the flavours to meld and gel together. I've manned up with the IBU but now I'm losing courage... I'm still however interested in going the full recipe including the dry hop.

Thoughts?


----------



## Lecterfan

Personally I can't rave about this enough. Do it. Dry hops and all - the chinook on the palate and the cascade on the nose...fantastic. Yes, it is a big hoppy beer, unapologetically so. If you decide next time to drop the IBU's and lose the dry hops you will undoubtedly have a tasty beer, but I would recomend seeing this one through. 4 weeks in the bottle and it is gold.


edit: Argon (or anyone) - have you tried doing the first bittering addition at 45 mins or less but using more chinook/ekg to make up the IBUs - like doing more of a hopburst thing with it? I suppose it might not be true to what it is replicating but it could be interesting...I might try that on the next one (scheduled for 4 weeks time from now hee hee).


----------



## Guysmiley54

SOLD!

Will go for gold  Thanks for the courage.


----------



## argon

Good one mate... Chuck it all in... You won't regret it!

I'm sure you've just posted here for confirmation of what you wanted to do anyway. Hope it turn out great. I have a batch going right now, dryhoppng in the next day or 2. :icon_drool2:


----------



## Guysmiley54

argon said:


> Good one mate... Chuck it all in... You won't regret it!
> 
> I'm sure you've just posted here for confirmation of what you wanted to do anyway. Hope it turn out great. I have a batch going right now, dryhoppng in the next day or 2. :icon_drool2:



I have dry hopped it as prescribed (little) fellas!

Yeah, I was ultimately planning on the dry hop but was getting shy... Most of my brews to date have been quite hoppy apas and so far I haven't managed to get much of a balance of flavours in any of the recipes I have been using. I had actually promised myself I would be conservative on the next apa to test out the theory that "less is more"

Having said that, I love LCPA (although recent purchases have disappointed me) and I just can't resist seeing this one through as many on here are raving about this recipe  

Thanks for the input guys :beer:


----------



## schlongmire

red dog pale ale in my opinion is a nicer beer. alot nicer


----------



## Guysmiley54

schlongmire said:


> red dog pale ale in my opinion is a nicer beer. alot nicer



Is Red Dog a craft brewer? Have you a got a recipe for this one?

Cheers


----------



## argon

Kegged, filtered, carbed... sampled last night. Don't think it's quite hoppy or bitter enough. Malt backbone is really coming through though. Might dry hop the keg tonight with 1.5 - 2g/L Cascade flowers to get a little more aroma. Will have to take some photos tonight of the beer in the glass, cause it's such a good looking beer. 

It may be a tad sweet, as when i did a mahout infusion the temp only got to 70-71C so not sure it denatured the enymes. May have left a little too much body in the beer compared to how i wanted it... although it did finish at 1010, so not sure.


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

I made this the other day. Changed it a bit though. Used MO as the base malt and fermented with 1272. Everything was going well. got good efficiency etc.. cubed happy days. Until i picked the cube up and it sucked in a heap of air. bugger. I wasn't quite ready to ferment. Didn't have a starter ready. Oh well. After lots of flapping about it looks as though it has finished up at 1010. I'm going to keg and carbonate and dry hop in the keg. I've got my fingers crossed for this one.


----------



## Guysmiley54

Well... After 1 week naturally bottle conditioning I just had to sneak a test. :chug: 

WOW!!! Blow me down fellas, this reecipe is an absolute corker. It tastes more to me like (my memory of) LCPA than the stuff I buy at the pub these days :beerbang: Of course it is still a little bit sweet from the priming sugar and will definitely benefit from a few more weeks aging but still impressive all the same.

The funny thing is, I thought the hop schedule was quite aggressive but it's not too much at all. I think some of my failed recipes have used too much of the wrong hops. If I had used Amarillo, Simcoe and even Citra at the same hopping levels as this recipe I think it would have been a very different story!!

Thanks for all of your help.


----------



## Lecterfan

Rockenfugginroll my friend. This is my once every 8 weeks brew. Love it. The chinook is an uppercut to the chin of mediocrity and the cascade is the wild left hook to the jaw. Can't wait to try it brewed with the hops growing on my fence!!!


----------



## Guysmiley54

I was planning for 100% true to the recipe although I did realise after brew day that my recipe is slightly different. I didn't have carapils and thought it was cool to sub for light crystal, turns out carapils is very different indeed!! That sweetness I'm getting might be from the crystal and not the residual priming sugar.

I have carapils so next time (and there will be a next time!) I'll do it 100%


----------



## argon

Guysmiley54 said:


> Well... After 1 week naturally bottle conditioning I just had to sneak a test. :chug:
> 
> WOW!!! Blow me down fellas, this reecipe is an absolute corker. It tastes more to me like (my memory of) LCPA than the stuff I buy at the pub these days :beerbang: Of course it is still a little bit sweet from the priming sugar and will definitely benefit from a few more weeks aging but still impressive all the same.
> 
> The funny thing is, I thought the hop schedule was quite aggressive but it's not too much at all. I think some of my failed recipes have used too much of the wrong hops. If I had used Amarillo, Simcoe and even Citra at the same hopping levels as this recipe I think it would have been a very different story!!
> 
> Thanks for all of your help.



Great to hear mate... just keep chucking that chinook and cascade in there... it'll do you no harm!!

Report back in a few weeks when the bottles have hit their straps... hopefully that sweetness will drop off a touch and let even more chinook/cascade goodness come through.
:icon_cheers:


----------



## Lecterfan

Everyone's probably sick of seeing my name at the end of thread titles...but f*ck it, it's sample night and I'm offering some thoughts.

Latest version of LFPA, very happy. Now when it comes to chinook, I'm as big, if not bigger fan than many, but my final boil and dry hop additions I skewed in favour of cascade by 5 gms and also used Wy1272.

Very happy indeed.


----------



## argon

After a bit of time in the keg the latest batch is really starting to come good. On first samples I was left wondering, "where are the hops?" I was getting nothing but some bitterness and good whack of malt. Seems now as though they've awoken. Loving it... Now getting aromas of fruity cascade, grapefruit chinook all backed up with some nice sweet malt... Really nicely balanced.

This is a strange recipe really... On paper it looks like it should blow your head off with bitterness and late hops... But the balance is unreal. If you can't tell already I'm fairly happy with how things have turned out. 

My biggest problem from here is trying to make the keg last. :chug:


----------



## MarkBastard

The major issue i have with this recipe is that it makes me wish i had the equipment for double batches.


----------



## spudfarmerboy

Hello Argon,
Thanks for the recipe. Just a couple of questions.
The recipe says that the 0 min additions are dry hopped.
Are they added to the fermenter at the end of fermentation, added to the fermenter when CC'ing, or added to the keg when racked?
If they are added to the fermenter or keg, how do you normally do it?
Can the hops be chucked into the keg commando or are they put in a bag or something, just don't want to get bits of hops coming out of the tap when pouring.
Cheers
Spud


----------



## argon

spudfarmerboy said:


> Hello Argon,
> Thanks for the recipe. Just a couple of questions.
> The recipe says that the 0 min additions are dry hopped.
> Are they added to the fermenter at the end of fermentation, added to the fermenter when CC'ing, or added to the keg when racked?
> If they are added to the fermenter or keg, how do you normally do it?
> Can the hops be chucked into the keg commando or are they put in a bag or something, just don't want to get bits of hops coming out of the tap when pouring.
> Cheers
> Spud



The recipe is just dry hopped after primary. Typically when i dry hop, i just chuck em straight into primary a few days before crash chilling. No bag, just throw em in untethered.

I also occasionally keg hop. I've done it before with pellets... ended up with a few floaties. When i keg hop now, i only do it with plugs or flowers and always in a small voile bag with an SS weight.


----------



## spudfarmerboy

Thanks for the reply Argon,
will give this recipe a try. Have only started drinking LCPA the last 6 months. Loved it on tap and have bought a few slabs. At $55 a slab, if I can make a similar drop I would be very happy. I have never dry hopped before hence the questions. I suppose the same method of dry hopping could be used for the english pale ales I brew. I suppose dry hopping this way gives plenty of aroma, does it also give alot of hop taste?
Cheers


----------



## argon

you do get some hop taste... but mainly aroma. Chinook and Cascade combine really nicely and give a nice fresh grassy, piney type of dry hop taste and aroma, that i really enjoy.

BTW... this recipe is an attempt at a clone at LCPA when they used to use Chinook. These days they use Galaxy, which is what you'd have sampled. Have a read through this thread for some links and quotes explaining.


----------



## spudfarmerboy

Yeah, I have read through the pages and saw that. I did try it a few years ago but can't remember much about it.
Thought I would brew the recipe with chinook and then try galaxy and see what I like best.


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

nom nom nom. this is tops. a bit cloudy cause i squeezed out the bag full of dry hops when i took them out of the keg. but tastes most awesome thanks mate!!!


----------



## argon

That looks very nice indeed! :icon_drool2: great creamy head on it too. Jealous cause my keg of this blew 2 nights ago. :chug:


----------



## robv

Put this on tap today - 100% original recipe
This is without doubt the best beer I have ever brewed and will be the standard house ale.
Awesome recipe Argon

Cheers :beerbang:


----------



## Maheel

going to do a half batch of this today but dont have any EKG 

should i increase any of the 60 min hops ?

only have cascade, chinook and Sazz (not that i was going to add sazz) 



argon said:


> Dropped the EKG and made up the difference with a touch more chinook.



how much should i add in the Chinook ? @ 60 mins 

cheers


----------



## argon

Maheel said:


> going to do a half batch of this today but dont have any EKG
> 
> should i increase any of the 60 min hops ?
> 
> only have cascade, chinook and Sazz (not that i was going to add sazz)
> 
> 
> 
> how much should i add in the Chinook ? @ 60 mins
> 
> cheers


From memory the EKG adds about 15ibu. So just up the chinook to cover. Should be about double. But do the calcs and make sure you get to about 45ibu or so


----------



## argon

Now that my mill has arrived B) i'll be doing a tweaked version of this on the weekend.

I feel that the current batch came out a little too malty and full bodied. Finished at 1012 though. So going to drop the Munich down to 15% and up the Wheat to 10%. I'm happy with the mash temp of 64.5C as i did last time. So one change at a time should do it.


----------



## johnmcd

Hi Argon

Hoping to brew this soon - but unsure which version youd currently recommend being closest to original LCPA.

Was it the BeerSmith version at post #55 with a 47.9 IBU or is it the recipeDB version with a 62.1 IBU?

Cheers


----------



## argon

johnmcd said:


> Hi Argon
> 
> Hoping to brew this soon - but unsure which version youd currently recommend being closest to original LCPA.
> 
> Was it the BeerSmith version at post #55 with a 47.9 IBU or is it the recipeDB version with a 62.1 IBU?
> 
> Cheers



The one in post #55 is the same one that's in the DB. Just that the calculations come out different between beersmith and the DB. Don't really know why.

Anyway... give it a shot and report on how you go.
Cheers
:icon_cheers:


----------



## adryargument

Kegged it last night.
Clearest beer i have ever filtered!

(Was so tasty I drank two leftover litres of it warm out of the filter  - no wastage here!)


----------



## Dylo

Great Recipe thanks Argon.

I followed the DB recipe to a T (all grain) and I actually did a side by side with a bottled commercial LCPA. Colour is spot on. Aroma of the commercial version seemed almost non-existant after smelling my version. Taste was so similar you would never pick the difference. Even got my girlfriend to try them both and she said the commercial version was slightly smoother. Head retention was far superior in mine. All in all, its wicked!

Thanks again for the recipe.

Dylo


----------



## Camo1234

Dylo said:


> Head retention was far superior in mine.
> 
> 
> Dylo




Thats actually something that I have noticed with most LC beers... There seems to be little head retention in the LCPA and LCBA.... I reckon my first extract LFPA was pretty bloody close to LCPA and the head retention is much better!


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Argon - very nice drop. I did version three I think (page three anyway) .... It is a beauty.
Thanks for the recipe - it will be brewed regularly.
Cheers
BBB


----------



## felon

Just cubed a double batch today into 17L cubes. Sg 1.060. Just wondering if I should french press the 10 and 5 min additions in boiling water, or do a mini boil of 3L from the wort and top up the volume with water to get 21L into fermentor.


----------



## argon

Personally, if The 5 and 10 minute additions are flowers/plugs, do them as French press. Pellets just don't seem to work for me when French pressing... They just turn to sludge and it's hard to extract the 'hop tea' without a great deal of sediment. So if your using pellets, do the mini-boil. 

Either way, hope it turns out tasty. :chug:


----------



## cat007

Can someone please expand on what the BB means in "4KG of BB Ale Malt"? And also someone said an equivalent would be JW Pale malt - what's JW?


Cheers


----------



## loikar

Hunt said:


> Can someone please expand on what the BB means in "4KG of BB Ale Malt"? And also someone said an equivalent would be JW Pale malt - what's JW?
> 
> 
> Cheers



BB = Barrett Burston - http://www.bbmalt.com.au/
JW = Joe White - http://www.joewhitemaltings.com.au/

Fingers


----------



## cat007

Hi all

Well my 2nd ever full 50L batch all grain was done using this recipe. I had to substitute the chinook for "Northern Brewer" hops as my LHBS didn't have them.
All in all it smelt and tasted like a wonderful recipe. Can't wait to try it when it's done!

The only thing that I'm super angry at myself about, is that I thought the OG was supposed to be 50, not 55. So when topping up my fermenter to reach what I thought was the desired OG, I got it to 51 then had a brain fart and thought I better double check the brew sheet. Of course, I was already 4 over the desired OG of 55 - aarrrrghhhhh! I hope this doesn't change too much....
What will it change? Other than lowering the alcohol %? I'm guessing the body won't be as full?

Cheers

Hunt


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## argon

By diluting to 1051, you may have slightly less alcohol and a little less bitterness... But over all the flavour balance should still be around the same. I wouldn't worry too much about it and just let it ferment out as usual, trying to get it to fully attenuate as you want a fairly dry beer.

Not sure what effect the northern brewer will have. I've never heard of NB being a sub for chinook. 

This beer is fairly well driven but the grapefruit/piney flavours you get from chinook. I've never dryhopped NB, so again not sure what aroma profile you'll get. It may end up a good variation using NB. Interested to know how it turns out.


----------



## gunbrew

Cool Brew Argon, Had a crack at it on Monday night with a few variations.
Hapilly fermenting away and I look forward to sampling.

Tidal Reaches Pale Ale

2kg Maris otter ale malt

2kg Joe white Traditional ale malt

1.1kg Joe white Munich

.085kg UK carra malt

.1kg Carra aroma weyman

.1kg Carra aroma Joe white

.09kg Rolled Oats

.07kg Joe white pilsner

.025kg Crystal Heritage.



Brew in the bag, 2nd time using the stainless mesh bag I have made.

Mash in at 67 degrees and went to 65 degrees in 90 mins.

Grain out and 2 litre sparge.

70 min boil.



50 min - 10g Chinook flowers + 40g Goldings flowers.

10 min 30g Chinook flowers + 14g cascade pellets.

5 min - 15g Chinook flowers + 15g cascade pellets.

0 min - 25g Chinook flowers + 25g cascade pellets.

No chill overnight.

OG 1044, seems like low efficiency, I usually sparge more and dunk sparge.

Put in fermenter with 20g of blended Chinook flowers and 20g of cascade pellets.

Pitch visibly active craft brewer American ale yeast 1 litre starter made 12 hours ago.

Will probably add more hops when I keg it depending on how it seems...


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## Hubert

Transferred this brew to a keg this arvo, very happy with the result (so far).

Instead of the Chinook, I used Warrior (thats what the LHBS had in stock) to a ratio of 1gW:1.4gC. The hop flavour out of the fermenter is fairly well balanced, nothing overpowering at all and there is a nice hint of tropical fruit(??) As I haven't made the step into liquid yeast, I used US-05 and set the temp controller to 18. Two weeks later, lovely brew waiting to be devoured.

Thanks for the recipe argon, muchly appreciated.

H.


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## argon

Interesting hop substitute... No idea what warrior is like in comparison to chinook. Hope it turns out tasty no matter.
Cheers
:icon_cheers:


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## OneEye

Hey Argon

In relation to all the talk about NoChilling going on at the minute I just thought I'd try out my understanding of it all in reference to this recipe. 

So if I were to no chill this recipe I should follow the recipe as is for everything up until the 20 min hop additions. So basically on brew day I will just add bittering additions and then cube it. When I'm then ready to pitch the yeast, I draw off my 3 litres or so of wort and boil for 20 mins adding all the relevant hop additions until flame out. Once done I add it into the chilled wort, bringing it up to pitching temps, add yeast and bobs your uncle?!


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

moosebeer said:


> Hey Argon
> 
> In relation to all the talk about NoChilling going on at the minute I just thought I'd try out my understanding of it all in reference to this recipe.
> 
> So if I were to no chill this recipe I should follow the recipe as is for everything up until the 20 min hop additions. So basically on brew day I will just add bittering additions and then cube it. When I'm then ready to pitch the yeast, I draw off my 3 litres or so of wort and boil for 20 mins adding all the relevant hop additions until flame out. Once done I add it into the chilled wort, bringing it up to pitching temps, add yeast and bobs your uncle?!


on Argons behalf...

Exactly (just don't forget the cube in the fridge bit). Follow the links in his signature. I have with this recipe and the beer was superb.


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## argon

mayor of mildura said:


> on Argons behalf...
> 
> Exactly (just don't forget the cube in the fridge bit). Follow the links in his signature. I have with this recipe and the beer was superb.



I concur


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## OneEye

Awesome! Thanks guys. I'll have to report back here when its done... hopefully to say how awesome it came out


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## MarkBastard

Next time I make this I'm not going to do any hop tea nonsense or dry hop in the keg, just going to dry hop in the fermenter for all late additions.


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## Mayor of Mildura

Mark^Bastard said:


> Next time I make this I'm not going to do any hop tea nonsense or dry hop in the keg, just going to dry hop in the fermenter for all late additions.


Are you suggesting a ferment hop?  

Seriously though are you only going to do the goldings/chinook bittering addition and then dry hop the rest?


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## argon

Mark^Bastard said:


> Next time I make this I'm not going to do any hop tea nonsense or dry hop in the keg, just going to dry hop in the fermenter for all late additions.



Yeah never been too much of a fan of the dry hop in the keg... keep getting inconsistent results. Now that the Grain Bulk Buy has been brought forward for this sat pickup, i'll be doing this in the next week or so. :beerbang: 

Will be 2nd time ever using my brand new plate chiller, which should allow me to get a great late hop presence... looking forward to it.


----------



## MarkBastard

mayor of mildura said:


> Are you suggesting a ferment hop?
> 
> Seriously though are you only going to do the goldings/chinook bittering addition and then dry hop the rest?



Haha no.

I only do EKG bittering for this.

I'll be doing the usual late additions, however I won't be trying to make a 'hop tea' or dry hopping in the keg. Both of those additions will be dry hop in the fermenter additions. From memory it was 50g hop tea and 30g keg hop so 80g fermenter dry hop instead.

Reason is I got nothing from the tea hop, waste of hops and time, if anything it made it taste worse, and the keg hops are okay but not needed, I dry hopped 90g Amarillo in an Obama IPA for 7 days in the fermenter and WOW that's some good dry hoppage. Will be heavily ferment-hopping all of my pale ales and IPA's now instead of dicking around with god damn voile bags and coffee plungers and other nonsense!


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## Logman

Keg just blew.....









but the next batch has been in the fermenter for three days.


Great recipe argon :icon_cheers:


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## argon

Did a double batch last night, giving the new pump a run. Took ages to chill down to pitching temp, even with a recircing chiller. Dropped out of utilisation zone pretty quickly though... so should have a nice fresh hop character. Especially considering i got sonme fresh Cascade and Chinook from the states especially for it. 

Happy to have a hoppy pale on for the new year.
:icon_cheers:


----------



## manticle

Tried wolfman's attempt at this recipe yesterday.

Good beer.


----------



## argon

manticle said:


> Tried wolfman's attempt at this recipe yesterday.
> 
> Good beer.


That'd be the brewer then


----------



## Wolfman

argon said:


> That'd be the brewer then



True that!



She's a good beer this one.


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## Tony

I might have a go at this beer soon..... sounds good!

I have never read this thread.....but all the discussion on EKG for bittering, it makes perfect sence.

American hops tend to give a harsh bitterness, making the beer a bit chalky and tannic on the tongue.

EKG has a smooth bitterness and will add a subtle floral ballance to all the late citrus and pine that will add enough tang to the beer without harsh bitterness.

Another winning combo in summer quaffing pale ales is EKG and SAAZ.....mixed 50/50 and used in a late 40 min boil and some 5 min from flame out..... its very nice!

Floral and spice ballance.

Now i need to order Chinook.... something else i have never used


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## MarkBastard

Yeah, and the latest Beer & Brewer has a guy from Little Creatures giving an 'example' recipe to clone LCPA. He says it's not exactly the same but close enough. The hops are EKG for bittering and late Galaxy and Cascade (mostly Cascade). He suggests Chinook would be a good alternative for the Galaxy too.

I'd say the original recipe was Chinook and they now use Galaxy. Cascade is clearly the most important hop.

I don't think there should be any confusion any more, it's definitely EKG for bittering, and Tony I agree that it makes a smoother bittering hop.


----------



## argon

Tony said:


> I might have a go at this beer soon..... sounds good!
> 
> I have never read this thread.....but all the discussion on EKG for bittering, it makes perfect sence.
> 
> American hops tend to give a harsh bitterness, making the beer a bit chalky and tannic on the tongue.
> 
> EKG has a smooth bitterness and will add a subtle floral ballance to all the late citrus and pine that will add enough tang to the beer without harsh bitterness.



My thoughts are that they probably only use EKG in the boil (with perhaps a touch of something else to bump the IBU) and the rest goes in the hot whirlpool, hop back then dry hop.

So i guess the 20min addition is an approximate of the whirlpool (I know Jamil advocates this) and everything else is a replication of a hop back. Then dry hopped.

One day i'll get myself a hop back and do it just like that and see how i go.



Tony said:


> Another winning combo in summer quaffing pale ales is EKG and SAAZ.....mixed 50/50 and used in a late 40 min boil and some 5 min from flame out..... its very nice!
> 
> Floral and spice ballance.
> 
> Now i need to order Chinook.... something else i have never used



Give it a go mate... would be good to hear your impressions of the beer. Can't believe you've never used Chinook! :icon_drunk:


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## Parks

Argon - I could kiss you!

Just filtered and kegged a double batch of your recipe as per the DB yesterday. Carbed up a "test" bottle while filtering and I am soooo happy with it.

I will bring a bottle or 2 to BABBs Wednesday if you are there to get your thoughts on it's comparison to what you have made.


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## argon

Parks said:


> Argon - I could kiss you!



Unless you're a hot blonde... FEMALE! I'll have to decline. But thanks anyways.



Parks said:


> Just filtered and kegged a double batch of your recipe as per the DB yesterday. Carbed up a "test" bottle while filtering and I am soooo happy with it.
> 
> I will bring a bottle or 2 to BABBs Wednesday if you are there to get your thoughts on it's comparison to what you have made.



Yeah i'll be at BABBs... keen to try yours, as my latest i think has a yeast issue that is not quite right.


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## Parks

argon said:


> Unless you're a hot blonde... FEMALE! I'll have to decline. But thanks anyways.


I've been called a lot of things, but I'm somewhat sure that's not one of them...


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## MarkBastard

I had a few pints of LCPA on Saturday on tap. First time I'd had it fresh on tap for a while (fresh as in QLD not fresh from the source).

It's remarkably the same as LFPA except LCPA has a lot less late florally aroma. The sort of harsh but good bitterness and malt is absolutely spot on.


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## jakethedog

Brewed this on Saturday for the first time. Keen to see how it comes out. A big blow fly wanted the first taste. Went for a fly around in the FV during the transfer from kettle. Gave me an idea of attaching the transfer tube from the plate chiller to the FV tap thereby maintaining a relatively closed system. It won't aerate the wort much though, so maybe drill a hole in the top of FV to stick the tranfer tube in? Or just keep on with current practice - no infections yet with AG brewing.


----------



## Fodder

Just a quick question with this one.

They didnt have any US-05 at the LHBS, but I've got S-04 and Nottingham in the fridge. 

Which yeast would you use if in my position?

Many thanks!


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## jbowers

I'd wait for the us-05, or order some. Nottingham will work, but it won't taste the same. It is relatively clean for an English yeast, which is why I say it will 'work'.


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## argon

Decided on a whim to brew some more of this. Simplified things a bit on the hopping front, cause i'm pretty lazy.

1050og

74% Ale
10% Munich
10% Wheat
5% Carapils
1% Acidulated

4 EKG plugs at 60
50 grams each of Chinook and Casade @ 10 and 0 then dry hopped

Easy peasy


----------



## bcp

argon said:


> Decided on a whim to brew some more of this. Simplified things a bit on the hopping front, cause i'm pretty lazy.
> 
> 1050og
> 
> 74% Ale
> 10% Munich
> 10% Wheat
> 5% Carapils
> 1% Acidulated
> 
> 4 EKG plugs at 60
> 50 grams each of Chinook and Casade @ 10 and 0 then dry hopped
> 
> Easy peasy


Ok, you've dropped back the carapils and added a little acidulated. Reasons?

I've been adding some cluster, which gives a blackberry edge, but i've not tried anyone else's to compare.


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## argon

bcp said:


> Ok, you've dropped back the carapils and added a little acidulated. Reasons?
> 
> I've been adding some cluster, which gives a blackberry edge, but i've not tried anyone else's to compare.



The amount of times i've done this beer, i've always wanted it to be dryer, tarter and lighter in colour. The latest one is drinking really well but still getting a touch of sweetness. I think the balance of wheat is about right now. The acidulated is just about dropping the mash ph for my water, i don't think it has had a flavour implication. 

Never thought about any blackberry in LCPA to be honest.


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## Hammo7

Hey Guys.
I am looking at doing this in the next couple of weeks.
I don't really want to buy any malt, as I have heaps. Have just run out of Ale malt, so plan on using the following grain bill:

37% Maris Otter
37% Pils 
10% Munich
10% Wheat
6% Carapils

Is there any reason for me to *not* do this? 

Thanks,
Hammo.


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## spox

argon said:


> Decided on a whim to brew some more of this. Simplified things a bit on the hopping front, cause i'm pretty lazy.
> 
> 1050og
> 
> 74% Ale
> 10% Munich
> 10% Wheat
> 5% Carapils
> 1% Acidulated
> 
> 4 EKG plugs at 60
> 50 grams each of Chinook and Casade @ 10 and 0 then dry hopped
> 
> Easy peasy




How'd this lazy version turn out?


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## argon

spox said:


> How'd this lazy version turn out?


Yeah pretty happy with it. Very easy drinker. Still a touch sweet, so will drop the mash temp a point and ensure I get full attenuation.


----------



## hendos

When is the best time to dry hop for this recipe?


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## Hammer

Was there any guide for the amount of time to let the beer condition in the keg before it hits its peak? ie bitterness dies back a little etc


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## Nossil

^I too would like to know!

I've had mine in the keg and in the fridge for around 3 weeks now, tried it a few days ago and the bitterness still slapped me in the face! 

Here's to hoping 1 more week it will be magic!


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## Logman

I leave it for 2 months - best brew I've done was 6 months but I didn't adjust for no chill on that one. It was amazing how much it changed from the 4 month mark - was the best AG I've done. Might need a bit more patients lads


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## Lecterfan

Also one of my favourites...are you really waiting for bitterness to 'die back' or is the chinook just too much for you? I can imagine if it was in a chilled keg then it might take longer to calm down, but I generally hook into this (I only keg approx %30 of my beers) reasonably early as I love the face shredding resin of chinook. You can substitute it out or drop it back and still make an awesome beer though obviously.


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## Hammer

wow wasnt expecting 2 months to be a suggestion!

ill give it some consideration. i was thinking of fermenting, crash chilling, kegging and conditioning it out of the fridge for a bit.


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## Beertard

I've just ordered the grain to make this next saturday, I may make it a little less bitter though.


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## hwall95

I brewed up an extract version of this 3 and half weeks ago (A week in the bottle so far) and it tastes great, nice malt and hops balance. Haven't had a chance to compare it to LCPA yet, but from memory it has at least similar hop flavour and body.

3kg LDME
0.3kg Wheat DME
200g of Crystal - 141 EBC
US-05 Yeast
17g of Fuggle at 60 min (Replacement instead of EKG)
10g of Cascade and Chinook at 20 min
20g of Chinook, 25g of Cascade at 5 min.
Dry Hop 20g Cascade at day 7-14.

OG: 1.06 FG: 1.011
IBU: 41 EBC: 18.5

Boiled hops at 1.045, and followed hop schedule. Pitched at 18C, primary for 1 and half weeks, cold crash in secondary for 1 week.

If I were to change anything I would change add another dry hop during the cold crash to give it some extra aroma, but apart from that it was my best pale ale so far.


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## xredwood

Can someone help me out a bit with this recipe? I tried to download the beersmith file but it just says error importing file every time. I'm trying to order the grain but I can't find the BB Pale Malt, should I just use Ale Malt? Is the Pale Malt the same as the Pilsner Pale Malt?

Looking through the forums there is an issue importing beersmith 1 files on a mac. Is there anyone out there who has a beersmith 2 file they could send me?


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## Beertard

I went with pale ale malt.


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## xredwood

Can you send me a link to someone who sells it so I know what I'm looking for?


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## Parks

The Ale malt is the pale malt - http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=773


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## Parks

This is my version exported from OSX BS 2 - View attachment little-fellas-pale-ale.bsmx


Adjust the ingredients according to changes in the thread. I made this 2 1/2 years ago.


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## JDW81

xredwood said:


> Can someone help me out a bit with this recipe? I tried to download the beersmith file but it just says error importing file every time. I'm trying to order the grain but I can't find the BB Pale Malt, should I just use Ale Malt? Is the Pale Malt the same as the Pilsner Pale Malt?
> 
> Looking through the forums there is an issue importing beersmith 1 files on a mac. Is there anyone out there who has a beersmith 2 file they could send me?


Pale malt will be fine, but it isn't the same as pilsner malt. Pilsner malt is slightly lighter, but would still be ok to use. I tend to use maris otter for most of my ales, and used it the last time I made this one. Result was the best beer I'd made for quite a while.

JD


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## xredwood

OK I've had a crack at scaling this recipe and adjusting it for this years hops. I have never done anything like this before so can someone have a look for me and see how bad I screwed it up? I notice in the original the AA % for Cascade was significantly lower (7.4 vs 6) so I have adjusted most of these values down. I'm just not sure that I was supposed to do this for all of them or I was just supposed to decrease the amounts of the 60 min hops. Anyway, I have attached what I came up with, please feel free to adjust or add any pointers!

Cheers,
Xander

View attachment LFPA Attempt.pdf


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## Beertard

Looks groovy baby
Yesterday I went with 3.5kg pale 1kg munich1 250g carapills and 250g wheat, and sg was 1.042 exacery
,next time I think id like it higher so will try 4kg pale 1.2kg munich1 300g carapills and 300g wheat.
hops look fine to me


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## Beertard

Are you using fresh hops?


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## xredwood

By fresh do you mean flowers or just are they old? I'll be making an order for pellets from craftbrewer specifically to make this one


----------



## Beertard

Just wondering because you said you adjusted for this years hops, thought you might have fresh whole hops.
I've read you can use 10% less if your using pellets


----------



## xredwood

Oh right sorry, I just meant this years as in the AA% is different to the original recipe


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## Beertard

How'd you go brewing this xredwood? Nearly ready to taste yet?


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## xredwood

Only just got to brew it yesterday unfortunately. Didn't exactly go to plan. Need to mess around a bit with my boil off rate and loss to chiller etc in Beersmith as I ended up with closer to 23L than 20L and obviously at a lower gravity. Hopefully will taste ok still.


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## chook79

Sorry to do a three year bump guys, but the Beersmith file doesn't seem to work anymore and isn't showing up in a search on the site/app. 

On the off chance you still frequent these parts argon, would you have an update at all mate? 

As it so happens, my little fella is turning one in a month so I need to brew a few kegs of something not too 'out there' to keep everyone happy on the big day... wanted to do a Creatures Pale clone, how aptly named this one is haha!

Cheers guys.


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## warra48

Here ya go !

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Little Fella's Pale Ale
Brewer: Parks
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 55.33 l
Post Boil Volume: 52.52 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 50.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 50.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 10.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 44.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 - 
8.0 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (6.3 EB Grain 2 72.7 % 
2.0 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 3 18.2 % 
0.5 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 4 4.5 % 
0.5 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5 4.5 % 
20.0 g Chinook [11.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 11.6 IBUs 
10.0 g Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 3.1 IBUs 
20.0 g Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 3.8 IBUs 
20.0 g Chinook [11.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 7.0 IBUs 
2.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 10 - 
30.0 g Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 3.4 IBUs 
30.0 g Chinook [11.80 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 6.3 IBUs 
50.0 g Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 3.1 IBUs 
50.0 g Chinook [11.80 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 5.8 IBUs 
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 15 - 
40.0 g Cascade [6.40 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs 
40.0 g Chinook [11.80 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 11.0 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time 
Mash In Add 28.69 l of water at 74.4 65.6 C 75 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 38.66 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## chook79

warra48 said:


> Here ya go !


Legend, thanks mate.

Did you have that one saved or am I going mad? I definitely still can't see it in beersmith haha.


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## warra48

I still have it. Try this, I'm not much good at this importing / exporting files palaver.

If that doesn't work, you can try dragging the link from the earlier post #203 onto your desktop and opening or dragging it into BeerSmith. Maybe right clicking it and choosing to open it with BeerSmith might work.


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## chook79

Yes! Worked a treat mate, thanks a ton. 

Booked in to brew on the 100l nano brewery out at Home Make It in Clayton tomorrow morning, definitely needed to have the Beersmith file to help me upscale. Could see myself screwing something up majorly if I was just going off a printout of the screencap


----------



## Leyther

When I brewed this I was really dissapointed with it after kegging it, almost chucked it but it aged very well, brewed it in March and still have a couple of bottles of it left, bottles tasting really good now.


----------



## chook79

Dang, maybe I shouldn't have left it so late to brew.


----------



## Leyther

Sure it will be fine, was one of my first brews so I probably screwed it up a bit, also couldn't get any chinook so used columbus so not exactly same recipe.


----------



## andyforssman

Im planning on giving this a go tomorrow... it'll be my first AG attempt after doing extracts for a few years. 

Problem is I dont have any caramunich!
I have plenty of pale malt, munich, wheat malt and carapils... 

Any advice on how to tweak the grain bill based on this?


----------

