# Malted Sorghum - Where Do You Get It?



## nabs478 (14/8/07)

I want to do a gluten free all grain batch for my girlfriend, miss I'm allergic to everything.

I need to get my hands on some malted Sorghum, as I cant' be bothered doing the malting myself. I am also fairly keen on getting my hands on some buckwheat too, if possible.

I've been told that G&G have it, and in fact they have 2 x 2.5kg bags that have been promised to someone, and they are not sure whether they are going to get more in or not. 

G&G suggested rining breweries that do GF beers, and suggested O'briens, who I rang, wasn' much help unless I want to order a tonne of it...which may be over kill for my little 25L esky mash tun I'm using at the moment. I couldn't find any other victorian breweries that do GF beers

I would be happy to buy a decent quantity, like 50kg or so, if I could find where to get it. Does anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## Steve (14/8/07)

Send milletman a PM - he does gluten free apparently. Also did a search for you:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...5&hl=gluten

Cheers
Steve


----------



## sjc (14/8/07)

Pip
if you're not hung up on trying to do an all grain gluten free beer, I made quite a respectable version using rice syrup (from health food store) and maize syrup (brewiser) and a very conservative quantity of hops. It came out very pale and the hops were really quite apparent. Fortunately I used amarillo, which are quite good from bittering, flavour and aroma perspectives, so it was not over the top. I also only boiled for about 15 minutes total so as to not over-extract the bitterness or caramelise the extract. I don't have the recipe to hand but if you're interested I can bring it in later this week.
Cheers
Stephen.


----------



## nabs478 (14/8/07)

Thanks for the search, and the syrup suggestions.

I had a look through thatd thread, and it wasn't really what I was after...unless Ross still has some Sorghum.

I am really hoping to hone my brewing skills to produce awesome beers of every style, so attempting some beer made from syrups doesn't really fit with what I am trying to acheive.

Thanks again guys.


----------



## enoch (14/8/07)

Pip. said:


> I had a look through thatd thread, and it wasn't really what I was after...unless Ross still has some Sorghum.



Sorghum is easy to come by ~$10 for 10kg when my coeliac other half bought some for me to malt - its a bugger of a process though hence it is still sitting in the bag :angry:


----------



## Wasabi (15/8/07)

Pip. said:


> G&G suggested ringing breweries that do GF beers, and suggested O'briens, who I rang, wasn' much help unless I want to order a tonne of it...which may be over kill for my little 25L esky mash tun I'm using at the moment. I couldn't find any other Victorian breweries that do GF beers



You could give Robert at http://www.sillyyak.com.au/beer/index.html a call. I believe that he has put his brewing on the backburner a bit, or at least slowed down and so he might have some excess grain to sell you in small quantities. He is always keen to further the "gluten free" push and so might be of some help.

We have malted our own sorghum here in our micro malter...and yes it is a pain in the butt.

On a side note, has she tried beer and had a reaction? My Honours work is all on gluten in beer and the impact of the brewing process. Michael Lewis wrote a paper explaining why Coeliacs COULD drink beer with an explanation as to why he thinks this. (Abstract: http://www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/Abstract...TQ-42-0045.htm), I'm looking at the changes in gluten from barley to packaged beer and seeing what has the greatest influence.


----------



## Millet Man (21/8/07)

Wasabi said:


> You could give Robert at http://www.sillyyak.com.au/beer/index.html a call. I believe that he has put his brewing on the backburner a bit, or at least slowed down and so he might have some excess grain to sell you in small quantities. He is always keen to further the "gluten free" push and so might be of some help.
> 
> We have malted our own sorghum here in our micro malter...and yes it is a pain in the butt.


Pip,

Robert at Silly Yak is the person who has been supplying malted sorghum for home brewers through G&G so he would be best to contact for getting some sorghum malt in small quantities.

I'm the brewer for O'Briens and our sorghum malt comes from the same source as Silly Yaks but we are wholly focussed on producing beer and don't currently supply the homebrew market, some products for gluten free home brewers may come in the future once we get relocated to Ballarat.



Wasabi said:


> On a side note, has she tried beer and had a reaction? My Honours work is all on gluten in beer and the impact of the brewing process. Michael Lewis wrote a paper explaining why Coeliacs COULD drink beer with an explanation as to why he thinks this. (Abstract: http://www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/Abstract...TQ-42-0045.htm), I'm looking at the changes in gluten from barley to packaged beer and seeing what has the greatest influence.


Wasabi,

As a Coeliac I KNOW normal beer makes me ill, and for people who have no noticable reaction it is no guarantee that it is not causing them damage. I think you should also have a look at a lot of other research that has been done that shows that the toxic protein fractions do make it through to the final product. From the abstract it looks like he is talking about future possibilities not the current reality.

PM me if you want referrences as I'm at the brewery and will have to search for them.

Cheers, Andrew.


----------



## Ross (21/8/07)

There will be gluten free extract for homebrewers on the market here shortly. It won't be through CraftBrewer (at this stage), but I will update as soon as I get the green light to say more.

Cheers Ross


----------



## glennheinzel (21/8/07)

GF extract will be available? Damn there goes my justification for buying AG equipment. Its a good thing that I've nearly got all the parts! ;-)

FYI - My wife is coeliac and likes both Silly Yaks and O'Briens gluten free beers (go Australia!), however she isn't so keen on GFB or Greens gluten free beers (both English, although one is made in Belgium). 

I've got a couple of bottles of the English stuff sitting here in Pyrmont if anyone wants to try them. My office is behind Star City casino.

Edit: PM me if you're interested.


----------



## Millet Man (21/8/07)

I'm guessing the GF extract will be the stuff made by one of the US suppliers (Briess???) from raw sorghum, a couple of the US brewers use this for commercial GF beer, New Grist and Redbridge (Bud) I think.


Rukh said:


> FYI - My wife is coeliac and likes both Silly Yaks and O'Briens gluten free beers (go Australia!), however she isn't so keen on GFB or Greens gluten free beers (both English, although one is made in Belgium).


Rukh,

Glad you missus likes the O'Briens, and I agree Silly Yak is good too. We had a booth for free tasting at the GF food show at the Sydney showgrounds on the weekend and it was great to see the positive reaction from coeliacs and their non coeliac partners alike - when people says it tastes like real beer (albeit regular everyday beer because that's what the masses want) you know you're on the right track. One young woman burst into tears (happy tears) after having a taste, talk about job satisfaction. Man I'm happy I threw in my old career and switched to brewing.

I love this job. :super: 

Cheers, Andrew.


----------



## brendanos (21/8/07)

Hi Andrew,

Do you see any danger in brewing a gluten free beer on a system otherwise used to brew barley/wheat based beers? I'm interested in trying my hand at gluten free for some friends/workmates etc, though I'd hate to make them ill. I keep a pristine brewery, though I don't know quite how much/little gluten is required to cause harm.

Cheers
Brendan


----------



## glennheinzel (21/8/07)

Like it? She nearly bought the company! Well... we were thinking about throwing some money at the IPO (not sure if it went ahead), but then the money got allocated elsewhere.

Keep up the good work Andrew.

PS. Apologies for going OT.


----------



## Millet Man (22/8/07)

brendanos said:


> Do you see any danger in brewing a gluten free beer on a system otherwise used to brew barley/wheat based beers? I'm interested in trying my hand at gluten free for some friends/workmates etc, though I'd hate to make them ill. I keep a pristine brewery, though I don't know quite how much/little gluten is required to cause harm.


Brendan,

If your brewery is pristine as you say then it should be fine, I have made barley beers on my home system no problem, just need to ensure all the little nooks and crannys are cleaned out.


Rukh said:


> Like it? She nearly bought the company! Well... we were thinking about throwing some money at the IPO (not sure if it went ahead), but then the money got allocated elsewhere.


Rukh,

We raised enough money to buy out the old Bintara brewery in Rutherglen (they were our contract brewer) and we are moving it to Ballarat in the next month or two.

Cheers, Andrew.


----------



## Wasabi (25/8/07)

Millet Man said:


> As a Coeliac I KNOW normal beer makes me ill, and for people who have no noticable reaction it is no guarantee that it is not causing them damage. I think you should also have a look at a lot of other research that has been done that shows that the toxic protein fractions do make it through to the final product. From the abstract it looks like he is talking about future possibilities not the current reality.
> 
> PM me if you want referrences as I'm at the brewery and will have to search for them.



Andrew,

I believe we met at the short course last year. When are you opening up in Ballarat?

I know what you are saying, and it certainly seems to be the toxic prolamin fracations that create most of the problems, and this new test kit which we will be using targets these. More importantly, this new kit is much more accurate. There is talk of changing the limit in Europe of what constitutes gluten free, and so this new kit is able to give a better accuracy down to 20ppm.



The other problem is that some of the papers claim that almost undetectable levels are evident in some beers. We want to know things like how malt type, beer style etc contribute to gluten levels and where the biggest drops occur during the brewing process, plus a heap of other work at extracting these prolamin fractions during filtration.

Finally we also want to look at it not just Coeliacs, but also Dermititis herpetiformis and other gluten allergies.

It's going to be a busy few years!

PS: I'll be in contact about the references, so add to my already growing piles of journals and papers


----------



## facter (28/8/07)

.. so, summing this up.. we are not able to get hold of any malted dorghum or buckwheat at this time here in Australia unless we make it ourselves?

I've bene looking at home malting .. making some GF beer has become more important lately ... bugger eh.


Guess im going to have to try to malt some =/


----------



## nabs478 (29/8/07)

Wasabi said:


> On a side note, has she tried beer and had a reaction? My Honours work is all on gluten in beer and the impact of the brewing process. Michael Lewis wrote a paper explaining why Coeliacs COULD drink beer with an explanation as to why he thinks this. (Abstract: http://www.mbaa.com/TechQuarterly/Abstract...TQ-42-0045.htm), I'm looking at the changes in gluten from barley to packaged beer and seeing what has the greatest influence.




Thats an interesteing honours topic. I am currently doing honours in analytical chemistry, but from my undergraduate years and reading about brewing, I figured if the final beer was clear, then probably any gluten would have been broken down or removed with trub or by filtration....how wrong I was!!

I told my GF that I was pretty sure most beers on the market would be fine. Then she got around farting for about a week. I ende up coming across some very relevent info, being that even fragment of gluten can cuase the effects.

It seems after more investigation Grain and Grape should be getting more in at some stage...not that I should be telling any of you that, cause I want it!!


----------



## Millet Man (29/8/07)

Wasabi said:


> I believe we met at the short course last year. When are you opening up in Ballarat?
> 
> I know what you are saying, and it certainly seems to be the toxic prolamin fracations that create most of the problems, and this new test kit which we will be using targets these. More importantly, this new kit is much more accurate. There is talk of changing the limit in Europe of what constitutes gluten free, and so this new kit is able to give a better accuracy down to 20ppm.
> The other problem is that some of the papers claim that almost undetectable levels are evident in some beers. We want to know things like how malt type, beer style etc contribute to gluten levels and where the biggest drops occur during the brewing process, plus a heap of other work at extracting these prolamin fractions during filtration.



Wasabi,

We should be open in October in the big shed between The Courier and Aldi in Creswick Road all going well, make sure you come in and say g'day. I'll be looking for a brewing assistant around then so if you know anyone let me know.

I'm interested in hearing more about the new test kit at some stage, I knew it was coming but not sure when.

Cheers, Andrew.


----------



## Millet Man (29/8/07)

Pip. said:


> Thats an interesteing honours topic. I am currently doing honours in analytical chemistry, but from my undergraduate years and reading about brewing, I figured if the final beer was clear, then probably any gluten would have been broken down or removed with trub or by filtration....how wrong I was!!



Pip,

Maybe you're thinking about glucans not glutens?

Good to hear G&G are getting some more supply.

Cheers, Andrew.


----------

