# No chill chilling



## acarey (13/1/15)

I've recently got a cooler (with my new grainfather) and am keen to try and use use it to fill cubes. I know this isn't common practice but my reason is that I like brewing but am not always ready to ferment immediately because I serve and ferment out the same chesty (not at the same time obviously).

So my idea was to fill the cube with boiling water before I start brewing and seal to sanitize it. Then when when the Brew is finished, just dump the water and run the wort through three chiller and into the cube.

Has anyone done this? Or see any problems?


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## manticle (13/1/15)

You mean chill wort, run to sanitised cube and store till ready to ferment?

For a moment I read cooler as esky (us term) but I'm guessing you mean chiller.

I cannot imagine a long shelf life. Might be worth doing some batches and testing wort at 1 day, 1 week, 1 month but I can't imagine a happy ending. During chilling, unless in a vaccuum, your wort will spend plenty of time at microbe friendly temps and be exposed to many. If yeast isn't present in large numbers relatively quickly, those microbes could easily multiply and outcompete.

Don't want to knock what I haven't tried but theoretically it certainly looks dodge.


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## acarey (13/1/15)

That makes sense. Maybe I'll hold of testing this one on Friday. The beer I'm making is the 7c's (recipe thanks to MHB). It's not the cheapest one ever and I'd hate to ruin it.

Thanks


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## luggy (13/1/15)

Can't you just run the hot wort into the cube like a regular no chill?


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## squirt in the turns (13/1/15)

Filling a cube with boiling water solely for the purpose of sanitising it sounds like a waste of water and energy, unless you have some use for it later, such as clean up after brewing. That's assuming you brew immediately after boiling 20L of water, although you'll probably lose a fair bit of heat in that time.

I agree with manticle, this would be asking for infected wort. Once the wort's chilled, if it's been exposed to atmosphere, even just a bit, you need to pitch yeast ASAP.

Just use the cube for no-chill. Tried and tested, and you'll save both the water you propose to use to sanitise your cube, plus the water to chill the wort.


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## Adr_0 (13/1/15)

Yeah, exactly. If you're going to pitch that day, chill. If not, do the no-chill.

I can see some advantage with bitterness consistency (i.e. going between no-chill and normal IBU) but it is asking for trouble I think. A sealed cube is a sealed cube (it doesn't HAVE to shrink) but I think as Manticle said the problem is on the brewing side when it passes through that 20-80°C range.

Is another freezer/fridge with temp control an option? Sounds like you have a fermenting bottleneck.


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## acarey (13/1/15)

luggy said:


> Can't you just run the hot wort into the cube like a regular no chill?


I could but I was thinking about beers that are heavily late hopped/ have lots of additions. I've never had a lot of luck with adjusting for no chill.

I do intend to do regular no chill with brews that have less complex hop schedules


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## acarey (13/1/15)

Adr_0 said:


> Is another freezer/fridge with temp control an option? Sounds like you have a fermenting bottleneck.


Unfortunately not. Space wise at home, I'm lucky to have what I do. The missus has lost half the laundry as it is ....


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## Adr_0 (13/1/15)

acarey said:


> Unfortunately not. Space wise at home, I'm lucky to have what I do. The missus has lost half the laundry as it is ....


The first half is always the hardest. Stay strong.


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## manticle (13/1/15)

No chill non hoppy and store. Chill and ferment hoppy straight away. Just plan around that and during cooler times, look at primitive methods of temp control for keg fillers, etc.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/1/15)

Why not just put some star-san in the cube...shake the bejeezus out of it and let it sit whilst you brew.....much better than plain old boiling water


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## dr K (13/1/15)

I have hundreds of those yellow topped "sample jars" (like your Dr ask's you to piss in). They are sterile, on the inside.
With most brews I fill one directly with cooled wort and seal. It is called a wort stability test.
It is left for a week or so at room temperature, if nothing happens (it does not swell, get horrible stuff in it) then I open for a good whiff.
I am placing about 40ml into a clean, smooth, gamma ray sterilised container, so any problems will almost certainly be the wort not the container, generally my worts are fairly stable.
Coole wort in a merely sanitised vessel, that may have been many times......your call really, if you have been happy with no-chill fffor storage, why not continue, safer bet, though best bet is of course chill aand ferment.

K


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## bradsbrew (13/1/15)

It works. At the last qld swap HBHB brewed a demo on the grainfather then chilled and cubed it. I pitched it into the fermenter the next day. It was a hoppy ipa and was way better than any no chill ipa. There was also a fair bit of air in the cube as well.
So it does work if your cleaninf and sanitation is good. It is far from best practice and would only do it that way if there was no better option.

Cheers


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## manticle (13/1/15)

Next day maybe. Many have partial chilled, slow chilled and no chilled successfully overnight before pitching. Probably not great for long term storage (nc excepted if done correctly) though. Depends how long before pitching but I got the impression op was after similar potential storage length to your standard nc wort.


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## acarey (13/1/15)

manticle said:


> Next day maybe. Many have partial chilled, slow chilled and no chilled successfully overnight before pitching. Probably not great for long term storage (nc excepted if done correctly) though. Depends how long before pitching but I got the impression op was after similar potential storage length to your standard nc wort.


Yeah, was hoping for a week or two.


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## ekul (14/1/15)

hace a read of the 'argon method'. I use it to make my beers that I want to retain the hoppiness in. Basically make your beer with only 60min addition, nochill. Chill cube to 4c. Draw out 5L, do a boil of hop additions 20min and under and poour it into the rest of the wort. Makes areally hoppy ale.


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## JDW81 (14/1/15)

acarey said:


> I could but I was thinking about beers that are heavily late hopped/ have lots of additions. I've never had a lot of luck with adjusting for no chill.


There is a myth that you can't make hoppy beers when no chill brewing, but that just isn't true. It takes a little bit of planning and a few of the same batches back-to-back to sort out your no chill adjustment.

1: Make your wort as usual - mash, sparge, boil.
2: Add you bittering hops as usual at 60 minutes
3: Adjust for no chill
--This is where why you need a few batches back-to-back. Brew your first batch adjusting your hop schedule by 10 minutes i.e. 20 minutes goes in at 10, 10 at (or in the cube). If that gives you the result you're after then great, if not adjust the next batch by 15 minutes, 20 minutes until you find the "chilled equivalent".
4: Any late hops that fall below 0 minutes when adjusted for no chill get added into a mini boil.
5: Cube as usual (without your late hops).
6: When you're ready to pitch draw of 3-5L of wort from the cube and do a mini boil on the stove with your extra hop additions (10, 5 0 minutes etc).
7: Chill in an ice bath in the sink and pitch when temp is suitable (hops and all)

Sounds like a bit of a fanny about, but for me (and others) it is a tried and true method for making hihgly hopped beers no chill.

JD


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## Parks (14/1/15)

The problem I had with that method JDW81 was it was much more work and effort than simply chilling.


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## lukiferj (14/1/15)

acarey said:


> I do intend to do regular no chill with brews that have less complex hop schedules


I have made heaps of very hoppy beers using no chill. It's a bit of trial and error getting the timings right but by using a combination of kettle, cube and keg hopping, I have made beers as hoppy as anything else I've tasted. As with anything home brew related ymmv, but it's really no different to getting your system dialled in to your brew software. Just another thing to think about. I used to do the miniboil but find with cube hopping, I get as good results with much less mucking around.


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## JDW81 (14/1/15)

Parks said:


> The problem I had with that method JDW81 was it was much more work and effort than simply chilling.


I don't find it that much effort, it just takes half hour when you decide to ferment.

I guess it comes down to your brewing and chilling processes.

Works well for me, but like most things, may not be as suitable for others.

JD


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## VP Brewing (19/1/15)

Whatever you do, don't use these. Got them because they were the only ones that say HDPE on the label. During the mash I had a whiff inside and noticed a strong plastic smell so boiled the kettle about 5 times to rinse and and another rinse with starsan. I thought the smell was gone but once it went in the fermenter the next day I could smell it in the beer. I leave it ferment out to see if it goes. Will be taking them back that's for sure. Even if I was just putting drinking water in them I doubt it would be drinkable. Should have gone the cheaper willow ones.


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## manticle (19/1/15)

Nearly bought one yesterday. Got the blue bunnings version instead.
Just pitched yeast - hope it's ok.


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## VP Brewing (19/1/15)

I boiled 50L of water this arvo and filled them up to let them sit overnight.


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## Blind Dog (19/1/15)

Personally I no chill for convenience and to save water as I couldn't reclaim cooling water easily. Adding hops at flameout (15 min boil in beersmith) and in the cube (20 min steep) with the wort transferred at about 80C - 85C to a cube sanitised with starsan and rinsed with a couple of litres of boiling water, works for me. I love a heap of hop flavour and aroma and found this method works

Not sure I'd trust transferring cooled wort in a sanitised cube though as I'd be worried about possible infection and possible oxidation


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## brewermp (20/1/15)

manticle said:


> Nearly bought one yesterday. Got the blue bunnings version instead.
> Just pitched yeast - hope it's ok.


Hey manticle I use the green and blue from bunnings no problems. Only issue I have is now that I've warped the jerrys and I can't make markings for wort levels. 

So what I've done now is bought another blue jerry, I no chill in the green then transfer to the unwarped blue the next day. Just my way of doing it. I boiled hot water in each of them and let them sit for a day to ensure no off flavours went in them.


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## Brew Forky (24/1/15)

longlostbelgian said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1421663974.163637.jpg
> 
> Whatever you do, don't use these. Got them because they were the only ones that say HDPE on the label. During the mash I had a whiff inside and noticed a strong plastic smell so boiled the kettle about 5 times to rinse and and another rinse with starsan. I thought the smell was gone but once it went in the fermenter the next day I could smell it in the beer. I leave it ferment out to see if it goes. Will be taking them back that's for sure. Even if I was just putting drinking water in them I doubt it would be drinkable. Should have gone the cheaper willow ones.


Same story with a 20L HDPE opaque cube I bought, except I thought it wise not to put beer into it after trying to clean it like you did and smelling it again the day after. I wouldn't drink water from that cube. Cubes ain't cubes it seems. Probably best to buy tried and tested. The blue Bunnings number is fine from personal experience.


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## Kingy (25/1/15)

I always fill my new cubes and fermenters with water and let sit overnight then replace the water and let sit again. Takes about 3 days for the plastic smell to dissappear.


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## squirt in the turns (25/1/15)

brewermp said:


> Hey manticle I use the green and blue from bunnings no problems. Only issue I have is now that I've warped the jerrys and I can't make markings for wort levels.
> 
> So what I've done now is bought another blue jerry, I no chill in the green then transfer to the unwarped blue the next day. Just my way of doing it. I boiled hot water in each of them and let them sit for a day to ensure no off flavours went in them.


I weigh my cubes to determine volumes. Beersmith has a tool to adjust for the extra density of wort compared to water. Less hassle and a lot more accurate than marking the containers.


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## Yob (25/1/15)

I just fill them up.. What it fits is what it gets


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## VP Brewing (26/1/15)

Brew Forky said:


> Same story with a 20L HDPE opaque cube I bought, except I thought it wise not to put beer into it after trying to clean it like you did and smelling it again the day after. I wouldn't drink water from that cube. Cubes ain't cubes it seems. Probably best to buy tried and tested. The blue Bunnings number is fine from personal experience.


Yep I took them back and got blue willow ones instead. Filled them up with hot water and will replace the water every couple of days til next brew day in a fortnight. That should do the trick.


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## Alex.Tas (27/1/15)

longlostbelgian said:


> Yep I took them back and got blue willow ones instead. Filled them up with hot water and will replace the water every couple of days til next brew day in a fortnight. That should do the trick.


I had issues with the blue BMW ones from bunnings. rinsed a number of times with boiling water, let sit with boiling water and even after my first nochill brew going into it, it still had a bad plastic smell.

I was told to try a bit of unscented napisan (sodium perc) mixed up with hot water and topped up to the brim. leave that for a few days then rinse. 
No smell at all now. In my experience this works much better than just hot water.


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## VP Brewing (27/1/15)

I've filled them up with hot tap water twice and can't smell anything now. Going to try the sodium perc anyways just to be sure. Might fire the burner up after that and boil up 50 litres of water to put in them too.


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## technobabble66 (27/1/15)

longlostbelgian said:


> ... Might fire the burner up after that and boil up 50 litres of water to put in them too.


With grain and hops in it??
:lol:


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