# Help - Please Friggin Christ Help



## bear09 (11/10/11)

Hi all,

Just tipped $70 worth of wort and a 2L ringwood starter down the drain. At this point I am right on the cusp of giving up brewing all together.

I seriously reckon I have spent about 4k on brewing. That includes gear and ingrediants over a 7 year period. I started off kits and bits, then partial, then all grain. Made some OK beers but they never really hit the mark. NEVER made a crystal clear beer. Not even polyclar helped me - seems ******* nothing can help me.

The AG I just attempted was smurtos landlord. I batch sparge. Half way through the first run the sparge stuck and I mean dead stuck - the pipe ran totally dry with about 10 liters of wort sealed tight above the grain bed. I mashed out - the whole mash was at 78 degrees. I tried to un stick it and in doing so about a kg of grain husks went through to the kettle - fucked the whole batch.

I cant be fucked with it any more and right now Im loosing it. Brewing as an absolute passion of mine. I love it so much and I love a good beer. I have spent so much money and so much time and all I can produce is dam water looking shit beer. Stuck sparges, hazy beers that never hit the mark - I just dont know how the breweries do it. I just dont know how to make good beer. 

I have had water analysis done, I make chemical (salts) additions, I have a rubbermaid mash tun with a 12" bottom, I watch my temps very closley, I have read palmer 10 times, Designing great beers 5 times, Yeast twice, New brewing lager beer twice, brewing classic styles about 5 times, I have spent 100's of hours on youtube watching brewing videos, I have been to G&G demo days... I feel as though I have nothing left to give this hobby and its killing me. Right now Im just so shattered I cant believe it.

Anyway this is merely just a rant and Im sorry if you have even bothered to read it. I dont need any advice - Ive already had it all. Ive already read all the posts on every single topic you could imagine.

If you brew great beer at home that is clear and truly delicious, I take my hat off to you big time. I wish I could do it so much but right at this moment I just dont see how I am ever going to.

Good brewing to you all.


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## VBisGod (11/10/11)

Thanks mate for the good brewing to you all! I think your shot and best go buy a slab of VB!


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## stux (11/10/11)

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4221


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## Silo Ted (11/10/11)

Back to the cans, son :lol:


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## Blackapple (11/10/11)

VBisGOD said:


> Thanks mate for the good brewing to you all! I think your shot and best go buy a slab of VB!


No need to put the boot in


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## andrewl (11/10/11)

Chin up mate! Theres always tomorrow! And tomorrow you could brew the beer you've been trying to!


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## DU99 (11/10/11)

Join a club they might be able to help you..don't get disgruntled..


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## ampy (11/10/11)

Keep it up mate, you'll get there!


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## ampy (11/10/11)

VBisGOD said:


> Thanks mate for the good brewing to you all! I think your shot and best go buy a slab of VB!


and you're a tosser


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## the_new_darren (11/10/11)

As a wise old brewer once told me,

Its the 90/10 rule.....10% of the process causes 90% of the problems. If you can nail that 10%, you are 90% there

Get back to basics dude.

cheers

the_new_darren


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## Rowy (11/10/11)

Think of it as character building................


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## manticle (11/10/11)

bear09 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just tipped $70 worth of wort and a 2L ringwood starter down the drain. At this point I am right on the cusp of giving up brewing all together.
> 
> ...



What kinds of beers are you trying to brew? What commercials are you enjoying? What exactly is not right with yours in comparison?

Finally, have you tasted any other brewers' beers that come much closer to the mark than yours?

A brewclub might help if you still have any hope or faith left. I have tasted some damn fine commercially available beers and some damn fine home brewed ones. I've also tasted awful from both camps.


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## VBisGod (11/10/11)

dont listen to du99, he never shows up, never pays his subs 

and AMPY lives in Melton, the new Pines of Melbourne. Whos a tosser? Berwick Beautiful one day, Melton the next!


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## Blackapple (11/10/11)

So what if your beer is hazy, find a recipe that you have done and liked and make that one over and over and you will make improvements with each attempt.

Maybe your false bottom is the problem, have you tried changing it to a different style, or draining slower, or as earlier posted BIAB? IAEF

Chin up, keep truckin, we all have problems from time to time.

Anyone who says they don't is a wanker or just perfect. :icon_cheers:


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## Blackapple (11/10/11)

ampy said:


> and you're a tosser


Hear Hear


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## Pennywise (11/10/11)

Maybe a brewer close by could tag along for a brew day, see where/if you're going wrong somewhere. Sometimes I feel like putting all the effort in gets me nowhere, taking note of everything and making sure everything is perfect, so I just wing it for a bit and all of a sudden I'm making great beer again. I'm slowly getting there though, till' the next time I try to make that perfect beer


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## raven19 (11/10/11)

See if you can get some other local brewers to drop in and watch your process when you brew.

It could be cold side of things giving you the issues though - yeast health, sanitation, etc.

Hate to see someone leave the game with frustrations such as yours. Please keep at it, you shall solve it I am sure.

(even a lower quality home brew is often better than a commercial beer!)


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## Nibbo (11/10/11)

Mate...i'm a stone throw away from begining my AG experience. After reading that i'm hoping I have a better outcome over time...i'm sure you have a good brew or two ready to be smashed out...just keep ya head up buddie...


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## PhantomEasey (11/10/11)

Haven't even gotten into AG yet, but, from my experiences with problem solving, it's usually a set of new eyes that sees the obvious deficiencies that you may have overlooked through hours of trying to work out the problem yourself. 

I reckon most of the above posters are right - having someone watch your processes, and ask (seemingly obvious) questions, should lead to the discovery of some of the problems generating your frustrations.

Chin up mate, and best of luck


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## Brad Churchill (11/10/11)

If you are passionate about it definitely don't give up.
There is obviously something or somethings wrong.
Try to hook up with a club or do a side by side brew with someone else who is making good beer. 
Do everything at this person's house including fermentation and bottling. 
Then have this person come over and do the same thing at your place.
I would think if you did this it may help you and reveal where the problem lies. 

Hope you sort it out one way or another. Just don't give up until you try some of the suggestions you get in this thread.
Because you can make fricken awesome beer at home. You just need to hook up with some one else who is doing it I think and go from there.

Cheers
Brad


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## VBisGod (11/10/11)

watch out for the experts like blackapples, Craigieburn is a sparrows fart from Westgate, why not check out FergtheBrewer here and the skirt wearing sexretary of Westgate for a hands on. In the meantime VB.
Greensborough homebrew, Worthogs, Bayside...... just check em out.


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## WarmBeer (11/10/11)

bear09 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just tipped $70 worth of wort and a 2L ringwood starter down the drain. At this point I am right on the cusp of giving up brewing all together.
> 
> ...



I'll give you $100 for all your gear 

But seriously, dude, get back on the horse that threw you. Get a mate around, brew together, try to enjoy the process as well as the end result. 

Best question you can ask of yourself is "Am I brewing for myself, or for others?"


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## Blackapple (11/10/11)

VBisGOD said:


> watch out for the experts like blackapples, Craigieburn is a sparrows fart from Westgate, why not check out FergtheBrewer here and the skirt wearing sexretary of Westgate for a hands on. In the meantime VB.
> Greensborough homebrew, Worthogs, Bayside...... just check em out.


Post something useful or crawl back to your VB, Troll


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## Rowy (11/10/11)

VBisGOD said:


> watch out for the experts like blackapples, Craigieburn is a sparrows fart from Westgate, why not check out FergtheBrewer here and the skirt wearing sexretary of Westgate for a hands on. In the meantime VB.
> Greensborough homebrew, Worthogs, Bayside...... just check em out.




I'd rather eat my own scrotum than drink VB.


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## VBisGod (11/10/11)

with a gooch Rowy?


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## Rowy (11/10/11)

Only if its shaved


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## Bats (11/10/11)

Relax... Have a Home Brew.


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## MHB (11/10/11)

Find someone who makes beer you like, sit in on a brew day with them, get them to sit in on yours. Its usually something pretty basic but we can all fail to see the obvious sometimes and fresh eyes will often spot the problem.
As Darren said go back to basics and get all the simple things right and you are most of the way there.
Good luck and good brewing
Mark


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## fcmcg (11/10/11)

VBisGOD said:


> watch out for the experts like blackapples, Craigieburn is a sparrows fart from Westgate, why not check out FergtheBrewer here and the skirt wearing sexretary of Westgate for a hands on. In the meantime VB.
> Greensborough homebrew, Worthogs, Bayside...... just check em out.


Sexretary ? :lol: 
I am now wondering which Westgater you are , VB ?
Come along to Westgate this Sunday , Bear...
I'm brewing on Black Betty , the club brewery ! You can see how a 3v cobbled together chewing gum and twine brewery works :lol: 
Cheers
Ferg
10am kick-off
www.westgatebrewers.org for details
or
PM me
Cheers
Ferg
SECRETARY  
Westgate


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## DU99 (11/10/11)

> dont listen to du99, he never shows up, never pays his subs


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## fcmcg (11/10/11)

DU99 said:


> Gee.you haven't been at the last two meeting's have you..and far as subs go i am a payed up member


Who is it , Du ?
And for the record , Du even bought a beer...and it was one of the better kit beers i've had....good effort Du


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## Charst (11/10/11)

I BIAB so i can with any real experience help the stuck sparge issue but rice hulls seem to be a worthwhile cheap investment vs the cost of the grain you dumped. If you use them already then I guess use more.

I know its another bit of gear but Get down to G&G on a Filtering beer demo day and your beer will be VB clear in no time.

having said that your not the only one having these dramas

I won the AHB Lotto near on a year ago and I can of the 36 beers i got from other brewers id say 

95% had Haze
90% had an issue i could pick out.

Most were comparable to my efforts, some definitely better, some :icon_vomit: 

I want my beer to be as good as the commercial breweries as does every brewer on this forum but I take every F*ck up I make (and I make one every batch at the moment) as a lesson and another step towards making a top sherbet.


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## Nick JD (12/10/11)

bear09 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I dont need any advice - Ive already had it all. Ive already read all the posts on every single topic you could imagine.
> 
> Good brewing to you all.



Thanks!


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## Dave70 (12/10/11)

Hey fella, just take your seat again and relax eh?

Here's my advice. 

Slow down. Take your time. Use a teensy little tube and let your mash drain slowly.
Let the beer sit in the fermenter for three weeks or so.
Crash chill for a week, or weeks instead of kegging and gassing the shit the nanosecond the gravity stops dropping.
Patience in this game really pays dividends. 
If you're gonna give yourself a ******* aneurysm sweating something as frivolous brewing suds, give it away.

Here's a Japanese garden for you to look at whilst you contemplate the significance of attenuation and chill haze.


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## petesbrew (12/10/11)

Perfect reply Dave.

Join a homebrew club.
Get another brewer round for a brewday for tips & Q&A.
Buy that slab of VB and remind yourself why you love this hobby.
Hazy beer... pftt. who cares. Some of us have been watching masterchef too long. You're drinking a beer, not looking at a painting.
(but I admit, I racked my current APA onto gelatin - amazing how clear it came out, now you can see all the hop floaties.  )

Good luck.


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## bear09 (12/10/11)

My Brewing brethren

To all that have responded I say a MASSIVE thanks to you. After sleeping on it there aint no way Im giving up. Screw it Im going harder

I think it may be time to join a brew club and I think it may be time to wave the white flag and get a brewing bro over for brew day one day to help me fix where its going wrong.

All the suggestions and words of advice I have read here have got me going again. Teaspoon of cement has hardened me up a bit now and Im ready to stop bitching and start brewing better brewing.

Ill remember this post and the people who have responded its another reason why I love brewing the community that surrounds it has yet to disappoint me.

Sorry for the swearing in the original post. I very rarely swear on facebook, or AHB or any other blogs.

Thanks again to everyone ive dried my eyes and manned up.

Quitters never brew good beer People who brew good beer never quit.

Cheers.


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## insane_rosenberg (12/10/11)

bear09 said:


> I think it may be time to join a brew club



The Wort Hogs (affiliated member) are having a brew day at our president's house in South Morang Sunday week (23rd Oct). Feel free to come along and check it out.

Always happy to have someone come along and see what we're about before deciding whether or not to join.

P.S. Always good to see a fellow brewer man up after a tough brew day. We've all been there.


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## DU99 (12/10/11)

CUB ain't perfect either..as Ferg said your welcome to attend on sunday


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## bear09 (12/10/11)

Thanks again fellas. I have the web sites for wort hogs and westgates. Ill take a look and weigh it up. Think it might finally be time to get involved with a club - ive always liked the G&G brew days - I reckon these could be great.

Cheers.


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## petesbrew (12/10/11)

bear09 said:


> Thanks again fellas. I have the web sites for wort hogs and westgates. Ill take a look and weigh it up. Think it might finally be time to get involved with a club - ive always liked the G&G brew days - I reckon these could be great.
> 
> Cheers.


Brewclub = new group of mates.


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## bear09 (12/10/11)

petesbrew said:


> Brewclub = new group of mates.



Not another group of mates to get me into trouble....


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## raven19 (12/10/11)

And welcome back Bear!

So many little things can be learnt at brew days with others. We all do things in different ways, so here's hoping to nail this issue asap.

Good news thread this one.


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## Amber Fluid (12/10/11)

Bear09... in my sig you will see a link to the AHB map. Maybe check that out for brewers near by you could talk to.

It would be handy if there were more members on here so when things like this happen it can be used as a tool to help.


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## Charst (12/10/11)

DU99 said:


> CUB ain't perfect either..as Ferg said your welcome to attend on sunday




What do you mean CUB's not perfect? All there beers are so clear and Bright, Its the Best cold beer, its made from beer, its drunk in slow motion in a place thats purer than where im from!


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## DU99 (12/10/11)

Amber Fluid ..thats a good idea"the map"


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## jkmeldrum (12/10/11)

Nice one Bear....man up son!

Channel the inner bear....

Your original rant was great....loved it! I think we've all been there.....can't remember how many times I've left a valve open and seen my beautiful wort flowing across my kitchen floor! You gave me a bit of a chuckle cos I've really questioned the money/time and effort I've put in on occasions....but it's all worth it....I get a little bit better each brew.

Hey I used to get some stuck spurges with my 38L Cooler and 12" falsie.....but now I just do one simple thing before I mash....and that's to just check and double check that the falsie is sitting dead flat on the bottom of the cooler.....I'm sure you've probably tried it, so not trying to tell you how to suck eggs.....but I just give it a bit of a bend in my hands and keep putting it back in there until it's dead flat against the bottom.

Since I've been doing that I haven't had one problem even with wheat beers. 

You only need one chunk of grain to slip around and under the side to get up and through that pickup tube and it can be so frustrating. No amount of 'back-blowing' can seem to get it out sometimes.

As for hazy beer etc, I don't worry about it at all as I am an ale man myself.....if I pour slowly and it's a clear beer - great.....if not - and it's hazy I don't care....even my stuff ups are generally better than the crap I used to buy. 

I never thought I'd say this but I hate going to most pubs now as the beer is generally shitty!!!...and I won't ever lower myself to the VB stuff.....too much of a beer snob now.

Good luck mate....hang in there!!

Molly


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## mmmyummybeer (12/10/11)

I'm sure the Worthogs will help you out. I agree with 'Relax' but also to Slow Down most especially on recirc (not sure on Vourlofs spelling) and Sparge, especially if you mash is getting stuck. I know you said you don't need advice but do try to slow it down and don't panic. 
Whats the go with perfectly clear beers anyway, why does it seem to be the most important thing surely I would be more concerned on taste than haze.

Like also said early on and Charlie Papazians motto 'don't worry relax have a homebrew'


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## bear09 (12/10/11)

Molly said:


> Nice one Bear....man up son!
> 
> Channel the inner bear....
> 
> ...




Yeah had to get over myself but in order to do so I had to sleep on it (and read some of the responses from AHB'ers - that helped a lot)...

Glad to see Im not alone in the whole throwing my hands in the air and walking away thing - also not alone in rapidly coming back. I loved the comment when someone asked if they could buy all my gear for $100 - that got me smiling again.

Back to it next week. I have just placed an order with G&G for smurtos land lord with 1469 - they have some in. I shall report back on this brew day with some pix.

I hope to look back on this post in 12 months and laugh - I hope to be in a brew club of some sort by then too... 

Cheers again.


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## cdbrown (12/10/11)

One thing I learned was don't try to hard, don't rush and if something goes wrong - stop, think about it and correct it. 

So you drained husks and muck to the kettle, I'd - kill the gas, drain the kettle and pour it back into the mash, stir up the mash, let it settle for a bit and slowly drain some to a bucket until it's clear and then drain it to the kettle. Problem solved.

Do you use whirlfloc of another type of kettle finings? Do you whirlpool and let the break settle before draining to fermenter? Do you chill after ferment and use gelatine to help remove the hop and yeast particles (polyclar just treats chill haze)? Give it plenty of time while chilled to let everything drop out of solution and then minimise movement of the fermenter to prevent stirring up the trub?

Lots of things to help with the brew - but just take your time with it as it is meant to be enjoyable!


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## punkin (12/10/11)

The only bit i can't get over is tipping out beer  


I've drunk so much shit in thirty years of kit and kilo you wouldn't believe it...hold your nose stuff.


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## humulus (12/10/11)

+1 for joining a club,why not grab a FWK and start again!!!!! :icon_cheers:


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## bobsaget (12/10/11)

As others have said you need to get in touch with some other brewers to do a brew with. But specifically IMHO I think you should first get someone (whom you respect) to watch over one of your typical brews. Then after the brew they will probably be able to tell you that you did X Y Z and a dozen others things 'wrong' which will probably open your eyes to some things that you had never thought of. The things that you have thought of, and changed, yet still brewed crap beer aren't the problem, its those thing you take for granted (for lack of a better phrase)/things you just plain didn't think of that someone else will pick up on.... if any of that makes sense.
I know I am going to do a brew with a mate, because I have brewed a few average beers myself and want to know what I should improve on. Anyways, keep your chin up and stick with it. *to the sound of a Mexican accent* - You can do it!


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## Lecterfan (12/10/11)

It's been a great journey to read though - f*ck knows I've felt like that also...thanks for sharing!


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## bear09 (12/10/11)

cdbrown said:


> One thing I learned was don't try to hard, don't rush and if something goes wrong - stop, think about it and correct it.
> 
> So you drained husks and muck to the kettle, I'd - kill the gas, drain the kettle and pour it back into the mash, stir up the mash, let it settle for a bit and slowly drain some to a bucket until it's clear and then drain it to the kettle. Problem solved.
> 
> ...



This is just so dam true " kill the gas, drain the kettle and pour it back into the mash, stir up the mash, let it settle for a bit and slowly drain some to a bucket until it's clear and then drain it to the kettle. Problem solved."

Aint hindsight a bitch? After I cooled down and gotten over myself I realised this would have been an easy fix. And you know what else? I KNOW WHAT CAUSED THE STUCK SPARGE!! I have been thinking about it all day. DUring the sparge I opened a bottle of beer on the bench by banging the top of the bottle with my hand. I noticed when I did this that the runnings hazed for a few seconds before clearing again and then very shortly after it stuck. I am now convined that the banging action on the bench compacted the grain bed and caused the stuck sparge. IM AN IDIOT. In my angered state I tipped a fresh 2L starter of ringwood down the drain because "i didnt need it anymore - Id given up"... 24 small hours later and I am kicking myself.

I needed to relax and have a home brew....

SO glad that others have had shit brew days too and felt the same way. Im back on the horse - I have ordered more then $300 worth of grain and gear today - Im not more determined then ever!!

Once again cheers for the replies - I cant believe this post lasted more then 5mins...


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## squirt in the turns (13/10/11)

Maybe you did yourself a favour by tipping the Ringwood - that stuff is so needy and petulant that you might've ended up even more frustrated later on! What's worse, a stuck sparge or a stuck ferment?  I'm joking, of course. It's good to see the number of fellow brewers that spoke up to console and encourage you.

I had a couple of stuck sparges while I was using an SS braid as a manifold. I tried blowing back through it, poking it with a spoon, smacking and shaking the tun... <_< 3 butchered water supply hoses and 1 Beerbelly false bottom later and I'm much happier. I know the feeling of having tried everything, or looking at mounting expenses and still not being satisfied with the beer I'm making. But with every brew, I know it's getting better.


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## argon (13/10/11)

I have to second the patience and stop and think about it attitude (and thought the same about draining back to tun... but i didn't want to rub it in at the time)

Almost every time I've had a **** up, it was something that i could have remedied if i stopped and though about it.

Recently i wanted to pitch some yeast from a currently fermenting batch. After racking to secondary I found that the batch had stuck only dropping a few points over 10 days. In the past i may well have just used the yeast cake and pitched it to the awaiting cubes... resulting in probably 3 batches of shitty ferments and poor beer. Instead i stopped, re-assessed and developed an alternative. It took a little longer to get things underway, with making 2 new starters from different strains, but i know i won't have fucked the subsequent batches with yeast that i don't trust to do the job.

It's a hard thing to clear your mind when you're frustrated... but it's often the best thing to do. I no longer drink during brew sessions... although i sooo want to. But i need a clear head if i'm to overcome any hurdles that are likely to pop up.


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## cdbrown (13/10/11)

I killed my herms element in the last brew day trying to be clever by preheating it before pumping the strike water. Next time I'll check the water level in there before switching it on. I also tried to rush the milling of the grain and ended up clogging the rollers and destroying the rubber part of the coupler between the motor and mill. Spent more time taking it apart to clean it out than it would just to let it run normally. Now the time I'd spend on a brew will be done repairing the herms and getting the mill up and running again......


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