# Induction brewing... anyone doing it? What induction element do you use.



## Muz (5/9/19)

I've been looking at moving to an electric kettle recently and whenever I've gone down this rabbit hole in the past induction elements have seemed like a good idea. I've read this method is pretty big in Germany and to me it sounds perfect as I just want to boil my wort in the kettle and I want something that I can just plug into a standard Aussie socket.

The other advantage I see to induction heating for the boil kettle is that the heat distribution is really even so there is no chance of scorched wort.

I've done a bit of searching for a <$500 induction elements. There are plenty out there and they seem pretty powerful but none of them state how much weight they can take. I'm boiling up to 40L of wort so I'd want one that could take ~50kg.

Is anyone in Australia doing this? What element do you use and where did you get it?

I can see there have been a number of posts on this topic over the years so there is clearly interest. Seems like the only reason there isn't people using induction for brewing is Australian availability of a suitable, affordable element.


----------



## Muz (5/9/19)

A couple of things I've been reading on the topic:

What the yanks use:

https://52brews.com/induction-brewing-guide

Non available here from what I can see.

A couple of articles on the pros/cons of induction brewing:

https://byo.com/article/induction-brewing/
https://homebrewacademy.com/induction-brewing/


----------



## Slug (6/9/19)

It sounds like you're after something more than me but i can share my experience. I only boil about 6L for an extract brew and use an induction element that was only something like $50 on ebay, i find it takes a fair while to get it up to a boil. It has a whole heap of cooking settings like fry, hotpot etc and i found it would keep coming on and going off, it didnt just provide the power constantly. Whether or not thats how its supposed to work i dont know.
Looking at what youve posted they are clearly a bigger unit.

Cheers


----------



## Ferment8 (6/9/19)

It should be very quick to heat up. If it's not it's probably the pot your using. It needs to have a high ferrous component i think
My in laws have an induction cooktop and very expensive induction compatable pots. We house sat for them and didn't like the induction as it took about half hour to boil a pot of water. Got one of my scan pan pots on abs it boiled in about 3 minutes. My advice is try another pot


----------



## RobB (6/9/19)

Muz said:


> ....standard Aussie socket.......
> 
> ...... I'm boiling up to 40L of wort.....


I could be wrong, but I don't think those two are going to go together. 2400W will really struggle with 40 litres.


----------



## Muz (6/9/19)

RobB said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think those two are going to go together. 2400W will really struggle with 40 litres.


You could be right. I just don't know. In theory induction in a really efficient heating method. If you can get 40L to boil with and electric element then induction should be on par.


----------



## thehomebrewchef (7/9/19)

Hello, I think I’m barking up the right tree here, but feel free to correct me if I’m not... I was under the impression that induction elements are more efficient than other external heating elements as they heat the pot directly, rather than heating the pot and the air around it, not to mention having that heat spill up and around the pot. 
However, I can’t see them being any more efficient than an immersion element, as this is heating the liquid directly, so there is no waste energy. 
If your heating externally from below than check out induction, but if you’re currently using immersion, maybe just add another element to help with the boil?
Bob


----------



## Brew Bama (7/9/19)

FWIW (I’m a Yank), I use the Mai Cook Induction Cooktop. I heat ~32 liters of strike water in a boil kettle and do other tasks while it’s heating like mill grain, measure minerals, and drink coffee.

I like induction because of the precise heat control. I power it at 3500w to heat the strike water then again in the boil (~28 liters) until the hot break, then I power down to 2kw to maintain a gentle boil. I’ve never had a boil over or scorching with induction.

I also like the low operating cost vs propane. I use the brew kettle I already had which was already induction capable. ...and I brew inside out of unpredictable weather.

The only downside is now that I’m brewing inside, I had to provide ventilation for the steam and heat from the boil.


----------



## Muz (7/9/19)

Thanks Brew Bama. How long does it take to heat ~28 litres (props for being American and talking in litres!) from mash temp to boil? In the end that's the real time that impacts on a brew day.


----------



## Brew Bama (7/9/19)

I don’t know exactly but have a brewday upcoming and will time it. Since the wort is already in the high 70*C range from the mash out, those last few degrees don’t take long. 20 min or so just guessing. I use that time to weigh hops (I buy in bulk), prep and sanitize the fermenter, and clean as I go.


----------



## Muz (10/9/19)

OK. I've wanted to know if Induction would work for brewing in Australia for a long time now so I've bitten the bullet and just ordered one of these:

Apuro 3kW Induction Hob (they sell in the US under the brand Buffalo)


I've been hesitant until now as I wasn't sure: 

they would work with Australian power sockets
would take the weight of a full 30 litre brew pot 
get to a rolling boil in a decent time
would work if the pot overhung the hob a little

Then this morning I found this video (and part 2) which seems to answer all these questions.



Looks like he insulates his boil kettle to help things along. I'm happy to do that. Particularly since there is no chance of the insulation burning from an open flame.

My back up plan is to get a portable heat stick to use at the same time (on a different circuit). Or if my testing fails I might just return it.

Once I've done some testing I'll report back on how long it take to get 30L from room temp to boil and from 70 degrees to a boil. 70 degrees being about the temp of my wort post mash out and transfer to the kettle. So more indicative of brew day performance which is what really matters.

There are a number of places selling these in Australia at the moment and all state that they have an AU plug. I purchased mine from restaurantequipment.com.au as they were the cheapest I could find at ~$300 delivered. Well, there were cheaper options on ebay but I wanted a store where I would have less trouble returning it if needed.

Stay tuned...


----------



## Meddo (10/9/19)

I picked up one of these Apuro units a while back, they're a great-quality bit of kit. They're the only fully manual unit I've found in Australia, in that they resume heating at the set power if power supply is interrupted. The project that I intended it for has lapsed lately but I've posted a bit of information about these units at the other place, a search should find the threads pretty easily if interested.


----------



## Muz (10/9/19)

@Meddo oh cool. Just found them. In fact I think I stumbled on the brupi one when doing my research. Have you ever boils 30 litres with it? Do you insulate your kettle?


----------



## Meddo (10/9/19)

Nah I only did a couple of small batches on it, 10L post boil. I'd certainly look to insulate the pot though, regardless of batch size.

At some point I'll look to bypass the control circuitry with a PWM signal to integrate better with my other gear, but it's a fair way down my to-do list at the moment.


----------



## Muz (10/9/19)

Yeah, I'm not interested in that at the moment. Who knows what I'll want to do in the future though.


----------



## Brew Bama (11/9/19)

This is my data from today’s brewday:

Strike from room temp: 8.5 gal (~32 liters) from 68.3*F (~20* C) to 155*F (~68* C) took 45.5 min using my induction cooktop @ 3500w.

Boil from mash out: 7.5 gal (~28 liters) from 155*F (~68* C) to boiling in 22 min using my induction cooktop @ 3500w.

I then lower to 2kw to sustain the boil. I do have two wraps of Reflexit insulation on the kettle.


----------



## Muz (11/9/19)

Thanks @Brew Bama

The Australian version is only 3000w so its likely to be a little slower. However, looking back at my pre boil volumes most of them are around 27 and 28L. So maybe that will offset things and my times should be similar to yours.

Did you heat it up with the lid on? Is the lid insulated too? I'm thinking of leaving the lid on until the wort boils and and then taking it off. Should speed things up a little too.

I'm researching kettle insulation at the moment. Thinking of picking up some of this on Saturday unless anyone has any better suggestions:

https://www.clarkrubber.com.au/formshield


----------



## Brew Bama (12/9/19)

I did not have the lid on nor is my lid insulated. It would have gone quicker and is something I should probably consider.


----------



## Muz (19/10/19)

OK. I've had the electrician out and got a 15 amp circuit installed. Annoyingly this couldn't be in the garage as the power in the garage goes under the concrete. So it's in the laundry and I have a 15m extension cord to get to the garage. It works.

So the total solution was:

Induction hob delivered $300
15 amp circuit $400
Extension cord $30
Insulation $30

Total $760

I'll do my maiden brew tomorrow but I just did an experiment on heating times. It took 30L of water from 18 degrees to a very vigorous boil in and hour and 2 mins. More importantly it went from ~70 degrees to boil in about 23 minutes. I think this is more indicative of the brew day experience post mash out and sparge.

Unit looks solid and I don't think I'm going to have any weight issues.

Will try and remember to post again after a few brews in case anyone find this thread down the track.


----------



## Muz (19/10/19)




----------



## Jrrj (21/7/22)

Hey @Muz have you got any updates a few years later? I’m just coming to this idea because I’ve always used gas but have been exposed to induction when planning a kitchen reno (not my house though).

I’ve read the 2018 BYO article and have a 3v system with sandwich base SS pot, I’d like to switch my 40-litre brew day from gas fired to induction if possible. I already have a 15a GPO in my brew location (originally planned to switch to 3.6kw element), and my 44cm-base brew kettle should be induction compatible (plan to confirm this prior buying an induction cooktop).

I had always planned to switch to electric once I got rooftop solar installed a couple of years ago, but have been slow to modify my kettle to add the heating element (from memory the 15a one I could find wasn’t weldless). Another thing that delayed me modifying the kettle was that I was worried about scorching on the element and making it harder to clean the pot base. I have a pickup loop fitted inside my kettle with a camlock and I have always liked the fact I can take it out and have only a male camlock inside when cleaning the pot.

So induction seemed like it could retain some of these things that I like about gas-firing, but gain the benefits of a cheaper (free) and more sustainable fuel source than propane.

The things I’m still unsure about with induction and interested in your feedback on are:


Did your induction cooktop end up performing well? Would you recommend that specific model?
How problematic is it to have significant overhang (seems like cooktops available are about 32cm diameter ring, so I’d be 5cm over all round
Does the cooktop cope with 50kg weight, or did you build a stand?


----------



## Muz (21/7/22)

Yes, I'm still brewing with my induction hob and after ~25 brews I'm still really happy with it.

The only issue I've had is that occasionally when I'm doing a long boil (2 hours plus) it will beep and turn off. Not sure if this is a time feature or a heat thing but I turn it straight back on and it keeps going just fine.

In answer to your questions:
1) Yes, I'd recommend this one. No issues at all.
2) As you can see from the photo the overhang isn't huge. I don't find it a problem. In fact I think it's better that the weight is partly taken by the frame of the hob rather than just the glass itself. It would probably be fine either way but the extra support is reassuring.
3) My pre-boil volumes are ~30 litres + the weight of the kettle itself (2-3kg?). That's the most I've put on it and it doesn't seem to show any signs that it's straining with that weight (creaking when under load, warping or cracking etc.). That said 50kg is quite a bit more. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## Jrrj (22/7/22)

Awesome, thank you. That is a superb looking setup you have there.

I’ll be sure to post back here if and when I do pull the trigger.


----------



## Nick the Knife (22/7/22)

Induction is terrific - we have limited benchtop space (surprisingly shallow counters depth wise) so in replacing the old 900mm solid state one I went with this very compact 2 hob Swiss made unit. As very few induction units fitted and I actually had to put thisone in sideways for even it to work.

My logic was I very rarely need more than 2 hobs and I regularly need more benchtop space.

Oh and the little 2 hob unit can have each hob bridged to put out a total of 7.4kW into a single large pot! Also have a portable cheapie induction for outside.


----------



## yankinoz (23/7/22)

Induction heating is generally efficient. Does anyone have a hard-data comparison with immersion heating?


----------



## Nick the Knife (23/7/22)

yankinoz said:


> Induction heating is generally efficient. Does anyone have a hard-data comparison with immersion heating?


I couldn't find anything (yes, I've that much stuff to do searching for such things seems like a 'good' use of my time).....but seeing as a how water heater is a largescale immersion heater - I think this answers it pretty well - seems well credentialled respondents so should be on the money.


----------



## hezzer (24/7/22)

Hi Jrrj
It's been covered in the links earlier but our experience of changing to induction four years ago was that it's not easy to guess which pans will work well. In particular stainless steels ones - even those with "induction" written on them. So if you could borrow a one ring induction unit and try your pot out first it might help long term.
cheers H


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (24/7/22)

hezzer said:


> Hi Jrrj
> It's been covered in the links earlier but our experience of changing to induction four years ago was that it's not easy to guess which pans will work well. In particular stainless steels ones - even those with "induction" written on them. So if you could borrow a one ring induction unit and try your pot out first it might help long term.
> cheers H


That or try them with a magnet


----------



## Jrrj (24/7/22)

Interesting idea about the magnet @Sidney Harbour-Bridge. Is it enough that it very strong magnetic on the base to be confident that induction will work? This is the pot (magnetic picker-upper on the base). I picked it up from G&G a few years ago, it was sold as SS, sides aren’t holding the magnet but the base is.


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (24/7/22)

I have an Aldi induction cooking plate, in the instructions it says only magnetic stainless steel is suitable, as you have seen, there is magnetic and non-magnetic stainless steel, regular steel, like enameled pans are made from and cast iron are magnetic so good too. Looks like the base of your pan is magnetic so should work .


----------



## hezzer (25/7/22)

My point was that even amongst the pans that worked, there were different results - some worked better than others. Induction is very good when the pan is optimal, hence a check, if possible, might be a good idea.


----------

