# The Brauduino (Matho’s Controller) Build/Advice/Question Thread



## SBOB

Seems to be a few people asking in the buy thread so, as no one else has done it... How about we use this for build/advice/technical questions that are bound to be plentiful over the coming weeks. If it turns out everyone keeps using the buy thread then I'll copy paste this post as a 'summary' so far to there

Stealing some useful info from the current buy thread with references to those people that posted them.

*Default disclaimer (quoting Lael):*
*It is your responsibility to confirm with your electrician that this is in fact a safe way to wire the controller and to certify the wiring job that is done on the controller. 240v can kill. Don't risk it.*

*Build videos by Lael:*




lael said:


> I've put together a quick (actually, it is 30mins...) video showing what is included and how it all goes together so if you are trying to figure out what is included and how difficult / easy it is, give it a watch. It is so beautifully simple to put together.
> Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdKQ31dLl28



*240v wiring example by Lael:*




lael said:


> Ok, here is the wiring diagram for running 240v elements and pump.
> 
> Normal caveats apply - I am not an electrician, and this diagram represents how I might wire my controller. It is your responsibility to confirm with your electrician that this is in fact a safe way to wire the controller and to certify the wiring job that is done on the controller. 240v can kill. Don't risk it.
> 
> FYI only - I do follow my own advice and had an electrician friend check both the wiring diagram and the test controller(s) that I have made. This should in no way reduce your desire to check with your own electrician that it is indeed safe.
> 
> If you have any questions about what I have done, please ask. If you have any questions about what YOU should do - speak to an electrician.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrauduinoKitWiringDiagram_getchecked.jpg
> 
> edit: clarify the diagram was checked by an electrician friend, not just a random friend.





*Build word doc by Zwitter:*




zwitter said:


> Howdy Braduino builders
> 
> I have put together some sort of instructions.
> I am sure there will be differences of opinion regarding various things I have done that you would not etc. Just like my spelling on my label. It was well after midnight and I had been at work since before 7am!
> 
> 
> So here is the link to the file in my dropbox. I am not all that savvy with the forum and posting links or files.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4a9h3tzkne7fnr/Braumiser%20build%20lael%20james.docx?dl=0
> 
> James
> Zwitter


----------



## sluggerdog

I showed this wire diagram from lael (quoted above) to my sparky and they asked me to find out how the DC power supply is worked into this.


----------



## SBOB

sluggerdog said:


> I showed this wire diagram from lael (quoted above) to my sparky and they asked me to find out how the DC power supply is worked into this.






I would be tempted to say 'find a new sparky' 

*The following are words written by 1000 monkeys typing on a 1000 keyboards and shouldn't be taken as electrical advice *

But the DC power supply (from memory, not got one in front of me) will have a 240V incoming (G/N/L) and then a 12 volt outlet side (V+/V-)
Power into the DC power supply would come from the main 'Power In' (think that's the top inlet shown on Lael's drawing, which has one active going to the 'Pump in' on the board, the other connects to the top SSR) and the 12V outlet would be supplying power to the Arduino board

The outlets from the box (Main Heater Out, Main Pump Out and Aux Heater Out) are switched by the relays on Arduino board or via the SSRs

You should be able to 'kind of' make this out from zwitters word document and the image shown on page 11 but I will note

-* Zwitter has wire this configuration up different to the image shown in Lael's diagram*
Zwitters example has (*from my squinting and following wires*) - Zwitter please correct me i'f im wrong. Its difficult following grainy wires on a computer screen 
Top Middle as Pump Out
Middle Row as Main Power In/Main Power Out
Bottom Row as Aux Power In/Aux Heater Out


----------



## SBOB

*Details on ArdBir source, documentation for PCB/Manual, Code and Repository links - Thanks to Zwitter*
Lael/Zwitter have mentioned previusly a 'guide' will be created re updating the Brauduino, but these will be handy for anyone wanting to learn themselves




zwitter said:


> This is MaxN68's signature and these should be the links required for instruction manuals etc
> this contains several versions and languages and hardware that is not the same as what we have. The ArdBir team took over the software side some time back and it is configurable when you prepare the sketch file to compile to choose display size, board, language etc not for the beginner but not really that hard after you follow the instructions either.
> 
> The manuals can have some errors and so can the software. manual may be slightly behind the latest SW but tells you what you need to know..
> 
> *Open ArdBir - Single Vessel System Control with Arduino UNO*
> *Code* (Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Norwegian) - *PCB* & *Manual* (Italian, English, Russian) on *Dropbox*
> *Repository* on *GitHub*
> *Facebook Page
> Latest Version : https://github.com/ArdBir/Open-ArdBir/archive/v2.8.3-RC.zip *


----------



## real_beer

I think with all the confusion and uncertainty going on at the moment a lot of people might be better off just assembling their controllers and then waiting for the wiring video to be uploaded by Lael's electrical contacts.

If you blow yours up by following someone's well intentioned advice it wouldn't be fair to then blame them for something you haven't understood. If you have a bottle with poison in it you can see the danger (unless its in an unmarked drink bottle :angry: ), a cable with electricity flowing through it looks just the same as one without. I'm really worried someone is going to get caught out very soon. At least make sure you all have it plugged into a circuit with RCD protection on it.

You can still plug it in and play with it using a usb cable to get your jollies in the meantime.

So if you've got family, friends, or a life you'd like to keep enjoying for a while I'd wait until your 100% sure your going to be safe before wiring one up and turning it on.

Sorry to be a joy killer for the impatient ones among us but we've all waited so long that a little longer wont hurt. :icon_cheers:


----------



## SBOB

real_beer said:


> I think with all the confusion and uncertainty going on at the moment a lot of people might be better off just assembling their controllers and then waiting for the wiring video to be uploaded by Lael's electrical contacts.
> 
> If you blow yours up by following someone's well intentioned advice it wouldn't be fair to then blame them for something you haven't understood.


Sound advice. Not a single bit of information in this thread should be blindly followed (whether its Lael's or someone elses), especially on the 240v side.





real_beer said:


> You can still plug it in and play with it using a usb cable to get your jollies in the meantime.



Indeed.... turning on red and green LED's is hours worth of entertainment already


----------



## real_beer

And adjust all the menu settings and enter recipes, but the LED's are the highlight and very good entertainment :lol:.


----------



## MastersBrewery

sluggerdog said:


> I showed this wire diagram from lael (quoted above) to my sparky and they asked me to find out how the DC power supply is worked into this.


 ok so I went for a look for matho's original stuff but his diagram may just confuse things further and it's burried deep in the matho thread. Now this was done in my most hated software so bare with me a little. The usual disclaimers regarding electrical work apply get a sparky in and get in checked!


----------



## SBOB

MastersBrewery said:


> ok so I went for a look for matho's original stuff but his diagram may just confuse things further and it's burried deep in the matho thread. Now this was done in my most hated software so bare with me a little. The usual disclaimers regarding electrical work apply get a sparky in and get in checked!
> 
> 
> 
> Brau wiring.jpg


Nice. 

Also, for clarity of people following the lines, there's no reason the DC supplies 'Gnd' & 'A' connections need to 'hop' via the SSR (apart from trying to neaten wiring,the DC supply is permanently powered)


----------



## MastersBrewery

I didn't like that one, so I tidied it a bit and this will be my wire trace. As lael said the 12v power going to the board has to be correct or you will blow shit up. The board I've shown is actually matho's but the layout ( the most important bits) is the same.


----------



## zwitter

Hi SBOB

You are correct I chose to arrange the sockets differently from what Lael did in his wiring diagram.

Note Lael is planning to do a video with me but he is doing HSC marking so the few moments he is not teaching and marking is totally consumed in getting home and sleeping. Probably will do this on the weekend.

I may try and draw a diagram or two that reflect my box and a schematic diagram for the back half as well.

The power supply does have 5 screw terminals on the end and they are 240v power and earth and v+ (12v positive) and v- (0volts/ground)

The 240v side is labeled but will look at that and add photos and description later tonight.
James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Masters brewery

Actually the old Mathos diagram is not correct. As the SSRs are one up right way and other upside down the connections to the input side will have to cross over for one of the SSRs as the input has polarity ie - to - and + to +. Otherwise the second SSR will not turn on. Note the SSRs have integral LEDs to show they are being turned on. 

The diagram also is not clear as to which pin on the socket the wires connect to.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## MastersBrewery

ok so after having all sorta put together and packed away, Ive followed Zwitters advice and took a picture. I've shown conection of each wire seperately as cross over was confusing. If anyone picks up on an error let me know.
Active wire



Earth wire



Neutral



Low Voltage



ED: note the red and black wires are as comes with the kit for the alarm and temp sensor The white wire for the temp sensor goes to the centre port as shown.
My net hates me that took for ever to upload


----------



## SBOB

MastersBrewery said:


> ok so after having all sorta put together and packed away, Ive followed Zwitters advice and took a picture. I've shown conection of each wire seperately as cross over was confusing. If anyone picks up on an error let me know.
> 
> Earth wire
> 
> 
> 
> earth.jpg


connecting all earth wires would be my only comment


----------



## zwitter

Hi Masters

Yes you have correctly done the crossover with the low voltage side of the SSRs.

If I was pedantic I would also have same pin on SSR as active in and other as out but it works either way.

I would say the earth should be connected between the two inputs. You have drawn as 2 different earth circuits but I would say they should be connected together. 

You have correctly drawn the other wires but the bends in your neutral may confuse and the active crosses multiple pins on the sockets. Maybe dots where there is a connection would make it a bit clearer?

Zwitter

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## OneEye

My old man is a sparky and I've been asking him to have a look and he's not happy with the main power being a male plug. Saying that it doesn't meet Aus standards? Basically, when plugged into the 240v, if it's not plugged into the box then it's a potential hazard


----------



## LiquidCurrency

So I broke this. Jaycar only has red. Anyone know where I can get another?


----------



## LiquidCurrency




----------



## MastersBrewery

ok joined the earth , put little circles where wires attach, couldn't do the dot thing, this software sux.

Active



Earth



Neutral



Low Voltage



OneEye the blue (power in) connector is being used the same as an IEC(computer cable) connector/ socket, if you bend a fork well enough you can electrocute yourself as well with either, that said throw any cord in a bucket of water you'll get the same result, you can't easily get to 2 terminals in the socket the same as an extension or IEC. The advantage of the powercon is it locks into place, unlike an IEC or extension cord, trip on the cord and you will pull it from the wall before it will come away from the controller. To my mind that makes it a lot safer for our application. Your kitchen kettle most likely plugs into the wall and then plugs into the kettle, but its on the bench and you can't trip on the wire......


----------



## SBOB

OneEye said:


> My old man is a sparky and I've been asking him to have a look and he's not happy with the main power being a male plug. Saying that it doesn't meet Aus standards? Basically, when plugged into the 240v, if it's not plugged into the box then it's a potential hazard


Its less of a hazard than an extension cable as the plug type being used has its conductors more recessed than a standard AUS female socket on the end of an extension cable. No different than say an IEC plug on a computer/kettle lead.


----------



## SBOB

LiquidCurrency said:


> So I broke this. Jaycar only has red. Anyone know where I can get another?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1446717274.352472.jpg


how did you do that 
you know the colours don't matter right


----------



## SBOB

MastersBrewery said:


> ok joined the earth , put little circles where wires attach, couldn't do the dot thing, this software sux.


looks good. though hopefully people actually look at the pins designation on the sockets as there is nothing stopping you mounting them 180 degrees and therefore some of those 'circled' connections will be backwards (L/N swapped)

So anyone copying those pics
L on the sockets - 'Active' pict
N on the sockets - 'Neutral' pic
Ground on the sockets- Earth pic


----------



## zwitter

Howdy some comments

OneEye, I agree with Masters and these connectors are approved for 240v and 20A. There is no way even a baby could get fingers in there. And they lock and they seal.
I think they are better in this application than IEC style plugs and sockets and nicer than the 16A IECs to use. But you can not satisfy everyone. Feel free to use something else.

Masters, do you do portraits.?

Liquid Currency, how? Why?
I know Lael sourced these from China so probably he will be the best person to get one from. In the interim use any coloured one jaycar has.

Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## MastersBrewery

Best advice is if you don't like live power lines around and think you may unplug the controller accidentally, plug them in (they lock real well) and don't ever take them off, simples! These don't unplug just by giving them a yank, you have to pull back the clip and twist, then pull, leave them as a permanent fixture, I will be.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

LiquidCurrency said:


> So I broke this. Jaycar only has red. Anyone know where I can get another?
> 
> 
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=84558"]ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1446717274.352472.jpg[/
> I found these.
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Momentary-Push-Button-Horn-Switch-ON-Car-Auto-Autos-Vehicle-Green-Dashboard-/111431832749?var=&hash=item19f1dad4ad:m:m81feH179DtgAkvaaWFr-Ww


----------



## OneEye

Cheers for the comments boys. Dad is just being the overly cautious sparky that he is... guess that is what makes him good at his job. Think I'll just be leaving her plugged in permanently anyway as Masters said


----------



## ramu_gupta

Thanks for the photos and advice gents.

So the outputs from the Arduino are heater - PWM and pump relay - on/off.
It seems that wiring examples so far have been for a 240 V AC pump.

Can anyone give some advice on how to wire it for a little brown pump (12V DC)


----------



## MastersBrewery

ramu_gupta said:


> Thanks for the photos and advice gents.
> 
> So the outputs from the Arduino are heater - PWM and pump relay - on/off.
> It seems that wiring examples so far have been for a 240 V AC pump.
> 
> Can anyone give some advice on how to wire it for a little brown pump (12V DC)


I'll put something up, I actually had matho's pic of that. Just a note of advice you will need to use a different type of connection to the 12v pump, purely as a major factor in safety. See what I can do tonight.


----------



## ramu_gupta

MastersBrewery said:


> I'll put something up, I actually had matho's pic of that. Just a note of advice you will need to use a different type of connection to the 12v pump, purely as a major factor in safety. See what I can do tonight.


Thanks MB.
Much appreciated.


----------



## tateg

Does anyone know where lael got the enclosures from? One of these would be a great size for my dual brewpi build


----------



## MastersBrewery

tateg said:


> Does anyone know where lael got the enclosures from? One of these would be a great size for my dual brewpi build


 He may have a spare or 2 cut out as you recieved. Otherwise sure when he's back in a few weeks he can let you know. If/ when he does drop me a pm.


----------



## peterl1981

In relation to connecting the solid state relays dose it matter if you connect your element to 1 or 2?


----------



## barneey

LiquidCurrency said:


> So I broke this. Jaycar only has red. Anyone know where I can get another?
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1446717274.352472.jpg


I don't have my kit at the moment but are those things fully bonded together, if not, is it possible to replace the coloured part?


----------



## sluggerdog

I had mine wired up for me today and it seems we are having an issue. We are getting a flickering on the screen, initially I get the ardBir start up logo, then I get the main screen, about 1 second later it's flickering and the text is gone, almost like it is two rows of squares. Nothing works from this point on.

The electrician has tested the 240vac input to the transformer,tested ok, 12vdc output tested ok. The SSRs were swapped to eliminate it as faulty, then disconnected the pump, heat, ssr, thermometer and buzzer, but still we get the flicker. He also tried a separate 12vdc transformer but it is still flickering.

Running the PCB directly with USB everything is fine but as soon as it's wired up the issue occurs. Only difference is USB runs off 5v, where the transformer runs 12v. The jumper on the main PCB is set to 12v.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks


----------



## SBOB

sluggerdog said:


> The electrician has tested the 240vac input to the transformer,tested ok, 12vdc output tested ok. The SSRs were swapped to eliminate it as faulty, then disconnected the pump, heat, ssr, thermometer and buzzer, but still we get the flicker. He also tried a separate 12vdc transformer but it is still flickering.
> 
> Any ideas or suggestions?


If you wire up only (and out of the box even)
240v->DC transformer->Arduino board (and ensure 240v/12v wiring is separated)

That would be my first point of debugging


----------



## sluggerdog

SBOB said:


> If you wire up only (and out of the box even)
> 240v->DC transformer->Arduino board (and ensure 240v/12v wiring is separated)
> 
> That would be my first point of debugging


Thanks. Unfortunately he already tried this, still the scrambling issue.


----------



## SBOB

sluggerdog said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately he already tried this, still the scrambling issue.


strange
My first guess was 12v interference 

hopefully someone with more info on the boards can pitch in


----------



## zwitter

Hi Slugerdog

The jumper on the board is if you use a 5 or 12v relay. It is fitted witha 12v relay so do not move the jumper.

I would double check the arduino mega is fully plugged in to the brauduino shield.

If it is then probably next is to pull the arduino off and closely inspect the brauduino board for joints that may not have solder on them.

Failing that probably best to get a spare sent out. They were all tested before shipping and some needed pushing the arduino down but all did run. We found 4 that did not ship due to errors.

I will contact Lael and see if can help out with some of these issues.

James zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## peterl1981

anyone know how to upgrade the software to 2.8 version?


----------



## sluggerdog

zwitter said:


> Hi Slugerdog
> 
> The jumper on the board is if you use a 5 or 12v relay. It is fitted witha 12v relay so do not move the jumper.
> 
> I would double check the arduino mega is fully plugged in to the brauduino shield.
> 
> If it is then probably next is to pull the arduino off and closely inspect the brauduino board for joints that may not have solder on them.
> 
> Failing that probably best to get a spare sent out. They were all tested before shipping and some needed pushing the arduino down but all did run. We found 4 that did not ship due to errors.
> 
> I will contact Lael and see if can help out with some of these issues.
> 
> James zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Thanks, I took a look but couldn't see anything loose. I would have thought although I'm probably wrong that if the board + arduino worked via USB then it would be correctly attached? Everything is fine via USB.

Regarding the board, I have taken some photos, it may not be possible to see them but just incase here they are:





















Thanks Again.


----------



## MastersBrewery

ok see the blue square at the bottom right of your last pic, it is a pot, when powered turn the pot to adjust brightness, I say this as the back light might be getting more power when connected to 12v than when connected via usb. Just something else to try.

MB


----------



## SBOB

thought I should also add this to the build thread... kind of important (and cant edit the first post)




lael said:


> Please Note!
> All of the screw in terminals are positive on the left(+ or red) and negative (- or black) on the right(when looking at the back of the board with the writing on it).
> 
> Data cable is white for data for the temp probe. If you mess up the temp probe - you will kill it. Don't do that!
> 
> If you swap the 12v in to the board( the +ve into the -ve port) you will kill the Brauduino shield. Don't do that!


----------



## crozdog

Just wondering what pumps everyone is planning to use?

I have a March 809, but will probably save it for my regular brewing duties.

I have found a few of possible units:
240v
1. Fullpint has the chugger @$249 4.1m head, 22.7l/m flow & 1/2" mpt thread
http://www.fullpint.com.au/chugger-inline-pump/
2. Fullpint has a no name magnetic drive @$69 3.4m head, 19l/m flow & 1/2" bps threads. upgrade to a SS head for $39 extra 
http://www.fullpint.com.au/high-temperature-magnetic-drive-pump-with-1-2-bsp/

12v
1. Barleyman has the little brown pump for $24. It has 1/2" bsp thread 
http://www.barleyman.com.au/products/brewing-gear/little-brown-pump.html
2. Ebay has a 10l/m 6m head with 1/2" bsp thread for USD$45 inc shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/Food-grade-pump-hot-water-brew-pump-and-circulation-brewing-water-pump-no-noise-/281805852991

Anyone used any of these or have heard anything about em especially the no name mag drive from full pint ? 

Also, I am interested to see how everyone plans to do their plumbing including the output to a tap and if you will restrict the flow out of the pump back to the malt pipe as full flow may be too much. Please post your ideas / thoughts / drawings / pics of your setup.

Beers

Croz


----------



## breakbeer

Can someone please let me know what size spade terminals I need to buy?


----------



## Rambo

4.8mm


----------



## real_beer

crozdog said:


> Just wondering what pumps everyone is planning to use?
> 
> I have a March 809, but will probably save it for my regular brewing duties.
> 
> Also, I am interested to see how everyone plans to do their plumbing including the output to a tap and if you will restrict the flow out of the pump back to the malt pipe as full flow may be too much. Please post your ideas / thoughts / drawings / pics of your setup.
> 
> Beers
> 
> Croz


Croz, I have a few different pumps that I keep for backup but I use my March 809 as a plug & play unit between my different systems and it works great.
Unless your brewing with all your systems at once it's a great solution to use. I'd guess most people on normal household electricity supplies would only use one system at at time anyway.


----------



## peterl1981

crozdog said:


> Just wondering what pumps everyone is planning to use?
> 
> I have a March 809, but will probably save it for my regular brewing duties.
> 
> I have found a few of possible units:
> 240v
> 1. Fullpint has the chugger @$249 4.1m head, 22.7l/m flow & 1/2" mpt thread
> http://www.fullpint.com.au/chugger-inline-pump/
> 2. Fullpint has a no name magnetic drive @$69 3.4m head, 19l/m flow & 1/2" bps threads. upgrade to a SS head for $39 extra
> http://www.fullpint.com.au/high-temperature-magnetic-drive-pump-with-1-2-bsp/
> 
> 12v
> 1. Barleyman has the little brown pump for $24. It has 1/2" bsp thread
> http://www.barleyman.com.au/products/brewing-gear/little-brown-pump.html
> 2. Ebay has a 10l/m 6m head with 1/2" bsp thread for USD$45 inc shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/Food-grade-pump-hot-water-brew-pump-and-circulation-brewing-water-pump-no-noise-/281805852991
> 
> Anyone used any of these or have heard anything about em especially the no name mag drive from full pint ?
> 
> Also, I am interested to see how everyone plans to do their plumbing including the output to a tap and if you will restrict the flow out of the pump back to the malt pipe as full flow may be too much. Please post your ideas / thoughts / drawings / pics of your setup.
> 
> Beers
> 
> Croz


I been running the no name silver bullet for acouple of years.. no problems and its alot quieter then the march 809.. 
For $70 its great value..
I use it on both my systems just got same plug on both as im never brewing 2 batches at a time.


----------



## sluggerdog

MastersBrewery said:


> ok see the blue square at the bottom right of your last pic, it is a pot, when powered turn the pot to adjust brightness, I say this as the back light might be getting more power when connected to 12v than when connected via usb. Just something else to try.
> 
> MB


 Thanks, I don't think this is the issue after some more testing.

I took a super rough video of the start up screen to show what is happening from the time I turn it on. The temp probe wasn't plugged in this time but when it is there are no issues with it. Seems to read well.

VIDEO: https://goo.gl/photos/3SZqtp1FeRTFKeS68

Also to note which is separate one of my SSRs doesn't see to work. The one connected to the second input doesn't light up.


----------



## MastersBrewery

sluggerdog said:


> Thanks, I don't think this is the issue after some more testing.
> 
> I took a super rough video of the start up screen to show what is happening from the time I turn it on. The temp probe wasn't plugged in this time but when it is there are no issues with it. Seems to read well.
> 
> VIDEO: https://goo.gl/photos/3SZqtp1FeRTFKeS68
> 
> Also to note which is separate one of my SSRs doesn't see to work. The one connected to the second input doesn't light up.


ok so even though I've been packing up to move I took some time to do a check, and mine was fine so it may well be a minor fault . Lael did make sure he had a spare or two so get in contact with him.

MB


----------



## real_beer

sluggerdog said:


> Thanks, I don't think this is the issue after some more testing.
> 
> I took a super rough video of the start up screen to show what is happening from the time I turn it on. The temp probe wasn't plugged in this time but when it is there are no issues with it. Seems to read well.
> 
> VIDEO: https://goo.gl/photos/3SZqtp1FeRTFKeS68
> 
> Also to note which is separate one of my SSRs doesn't see to work. The one connected to the second input doesn't light up.


Have you tried pushing any of the buttons before the screen starts flickering?


----------



## dblunn

Hi Slugger, how is your shielding on the temp probe? I had a ground loop on my set-up that did similar things when I hooked up the temp probe in the HEX (4V system). 
Regards, Dave


----------



## SBOB

Fun day of wiring today with the house to myself (and the NBA in the background). Not as neat as zwitter's, but it does the job.

For those trying this at home, I would suggest setting a side a decent chunk of time if you are trying to do a 'neatish' job. I think this ended up being something in the order of 4 hours including pre-wiring planning, isolated 12V transformer/arduino test, full wiring, multi-meter testing/verification and final power up (and a bit of time watching some NBA #dubnation)

I only swore a few times, which is massively less than if I had to plan this box/parts/wiring out myself from scratch, so A+ for Lael's effort, planning and end product


**nothing in the attached image should be taken as a reference for work you are attempting yourself. For all you know it was done by my pet monkey.*


----------



## sluggerdog

dblunn said:


> Hi Slugger, how is your shielding on the temp probe? I had a ground loop on my set-up that did similar things when I hooked up the temp probe in the HEX (4V system).
> Regards, Dave


Hey,

Is there is a shield on the probe cable and if there is where do we terminate it?

Thanks


----------



## barneey

crozdog said:


> Just wondering what pumps everyone is planning to use?
> 
> I have a March 809, but will probably save it for my regular brewing duties.
> 
> I have found a few of possible units:
> 240v
> 1. Fullpint has the chugger @$249 4.1m head, 22.7l/m flow & 1/2" mpt thread
> http://www.fullpint.com.au/chugger-inline-pump/
> 2. Fullpint has a no name magnetic drive @$69 3.4m head, 19l/m flow & 1/2" bps threads. upgrade to a SS head for $39 extra
> http://www.fullpint.com.au/high-temperature-magnetic-drive-pump-with-1-2-bsp/
> 
> 12v
> 1. Barleyman has the little brown pump for $24. It has 1/2" bsp thread
> http://www.barleyman.com.au/products/brewing-gear/little-brown-pump.html
> 2. Ebay has a 10l/m 6m head with 1/2" bsp thread for USD$45 inc shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/Food-grade-pump-hot-water-brew-pump-and-circulation-brewing-water-pump-no-noise-/281805852991
> 
> Anyone used any of these or have heard anything about em especially the no name mag drive from full pint ?
> 
> Also, I am interested to see how everyone plans to do their plumbing including the output to a tap and if you will restrict the flow out of the pump back to the malt pipe as full flow may be too much. Please post your ideas / thoughts / drawings / pics of your setup.
> 
> Beers
> 
> Croz


I'm using the original style BM pumps, no idea if anyone stocks them in Aus but have a search for

Laing ecocirc E1vario-15/700 B


----------



## SBOB

crozdog said:


> Just wondering what pumps everyone is planning to use?
> 
> I have a March 809, but will probably save it for my regular brewing duties.


Kegking pump + stainless steel head.. was about $100 for the two (via an ebay discount deal a while ago)

For the price, I think its hard to beat (and plenty of positive reviews of them when they were Kaixin branded from China)


----------



## Ferg

SBOB said:


> Fun day of wiring today with the house to myself (and the NBA in the background). Not as neat as zwitter's, but it does the job.
> 
> For those trying this at home, I would suggest setting a side a decent chunk of time if you are trying to do a 'neatish' job. I think this ended up being something in the order of 4 hours including pre-wiring planning, isolated 12V transformer/arduino test, full wiring, multi-meter testing/verification and final power up (and a bit of time watching some NBA #dubnation)
> 
> I only swore a few times, which is massively less than if I had to plan this box/parts/wiring out myself from scratch, so A+ for Lael's effort, planning and end product
> 
> 
> **nothing in the attached image should be taken as a reference for work you are attempting yourself. For all you know it was done by my pet monkey.*


Just wondering what crimp terminal you used to connect to the ssr?
Given its a little tight for space in there did you use something standard and then bend it 90 degrees so the wire comes out vertically or is there a terminal that works that I haven't thought of?


----------



## dblunn

sluggerdog said:


> Hey,
> 
> Is there is a shield on the probe cable and if there is where do we terminate it?
> 
> Thanks


On mine there was, I used the bolt in type into a T piece so the hot liquid would flow past it (I got it from sure electronics, they have an eBay store). If yours has a shield it will be easy to spot, there is +5V Ground, data and the forth one if present will be the shield. In my case I made sure the shield went right up to the input to the arduino (ie passed through the connector which in my case was a 4 pin microphone jobbie) but not connected to the ground on the arduino. I also put some 1nF bypass capacitors across the 5V to ground and the data line to ground (can use monolithic of ceramic disc types). I also passed the data line through a small ferrite bead. I'm not sure which thing actually stopped the misbehaviour but I figured I use the shot gun approach. Anyway, the bypass caps and the ferrite bead reduces noise on the data line and having the shielding all the way to the input but not actually connected to the arduino breaks the ground loop which also reduces electrical noise getting into the microcomputer.
Hope my ramblings help. Dave


----------



## SBOB

Ferg said:


> Just wondering what crimp terminal you used to connect to the ssr?
> Given its a little tight for space in there did you use something standard and then bend it 90 degrees so the wire comes out vertically or is there a terminal that works that I haven't thought of?


standard ones from jaycar and bent after terminating... it was a bit fiddly getting them in there (they made up one or 2 of the expletives said during the build). In hindsight simply terminating the bare cables in the screw connectors would have worked just as well but I was going for terminations


----------



## lael

SBOB said:


> Seems to be a few people asking in the buy thread so, as no one else has done it... How about we use this for build/advice/technical questions that are bound to be plentiful over the coming weeks. If it turns out everyone keeps using the buy thread then I'll copy paste this post as a 'summary' so far to there
> 
> Stealing some useful info from the current buy thread with references to those people that posted them.
> 
> *Default disclaimer (quoting Lael):*
> *It is your responsibility to confirm with your electrician that this is in fact a safe way to wire the controller and to certify the wiring job that is done on the controller. 240v can kill. Don't risk it.*
> 
> *Build videos by Lael:*
> 
> 
> 
> *240v wiring example by Lael:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Build word doc by Zwitter:*



Just stopping by to say Wow! Nice work! Thanks for starting the build thread - brilliant idea - and James - your wiring puts mine to shame  Thank you so much for putting that document together it looks great!


----------



## lael

Oh, just one note - I personally chose to put the the main power in at the top of the box (looking at the back), and aux power in at the left next to the heatsink and the aux heat out underneath it next to the heatsink. Main pump on the right of the box (away from the heatsink) and the main heat at the bottom.

The reason is - I find it makes it easiest to undo the main power to the unit (assuming there is not an SSR failure and the box is wired correctly) which *should* turn off all heating and pump outputs. It also means the heat outs are both at the bottom of the power outs. There is very limited space to fit everything in the box, so you will notice the power sockets next to the heatsink are a little tight to get in and out, hence why I use the ones to the right at the edge of the box for my main ones (1 pump, 1 heat out). 

As James commented in his document - whatever you do - LABEL the inputs and outputs so you know what they are and stay safe as you build. 240v can kill. If you are not an electrician, get it built or checked by one before you use it. Beer is not worth dying for


----------



## Mister Wilson

Wrapped to finally have this in my hands.

I have not started on the 240v side of things but hit a little hurdle with the pump/heater LEDs. I have the buttons all connected but when I start up via USB the pump LED lights up fine but the heater one doesn't light up despite it registering on the screen.

I swapped the LEDs around just to rule out a faulty LED and the red one lit up when I was pushing the pump button. So it doesn't seem to be an LED problem just wonder if the board has some sort of fault or if there is something else that can be done.


----------



## SBOB

MisterWilson said:


> I have the buttons all connected but when I start up via USB the pump LED lights up fine but the heater one doesn't light up despite it registering on the screen.


my led's didn't work first time as I hadn't pushed them in far enough. The heater one was getting slightly caught on the board above meaning it didn't connect properly (I had already mounted the board to the front panel making plugging them in a little harder than it should have been)


----------



## Kingy

I had the same problem with mine as I didn't want to force them on. Fixed the problem by pushing them right in.
I'm only new to these things but playing around in the mash step profiles I can't seem to set the temp lower than 68degrees but I'm sure it's operater error.


----------



## lespaul

First up, I have no idea about electronics/electrics, but I'm planning on wiring this up and then getting a qualified sparky to check it... Learning experience 

Just sat down to have a crack and it was over before it began... Only 3 hex screws.

So I'm going down to alronics to get some more, but while I'm down there I was going to get some lugs. http://www.altronics.com.au/p/h1991a-red-4.8mm-female-spade-crimp-pk-10/. Do these look like the right ones to be getting? 

Do I just need 2, one for each of the SSRs for grounding? 

Also I have some "2&e tps" wire, but it's 4mm. Will only have 10a running (single 2400w element and pump). No good?

Rookie question I'm sure, but thanks for the help!!!!


----------



## SBOB

lespaul said:


> http://www.altronics.com.au/p/h1991a-red-4.8mm-female-spade-crimp-pk-10/. Do these look like the right ones to be getting?
> 
> Do I just need 2, one for each of the SSRs for grounding?


depends how you wire it, but at a minimum you are going to need (in total) 15 4.8mm terminals
BUT
depending on wire thickness and how you join each terminal the 'size' of the terminal might vary

e.g. those red ones you linked will take a 0.75-1mm cable. Definitely on the low side for what I would be using for a permanent install like in this box (especially for 10A which is likely what the heater will be drawing)

You are more likely going to need the blue size (takes a 1.5-2.5mm cable), but for those terminals requiring two wires (like grounds where you are looping) or the main power in where you might want to branch it off to two locations you will need to look for the yellow terminals as they will take a wire size of ~4.5mm (or two of the 1.5-2mm cables twisted together)

The SSRs and 12V transformer can be wired without terminals if need be by claming the bare wire under the screw down terminals


----------



## lespaul

thanks for the quick reply!

ok so tomorrow ill get:
2 x http://www.altronics.com.au/p/h1851-red-4.8mm-male-spade-crimp-pk-10/
for each of the power inlet and outlets

and for the SSR ground ill need 2 ring crimps
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/h1825-yellow-8mm-ring-crimp-pk-10/

And ill just ditch the 4mm cable i have and get new 2mm (edit: ill get 2.5mm, they dont make 2 :lol: )

with regards to heatshrink, is it advisable to just put the heatshrink on the wire but not heat it yet until the sparky has checked it?
something like this will be OK on the terminals: http://www.altronics.com.au/p/t2480-iroda-micro-therm-mj-600-gas-flameless-heat-gun/


----------



## SBOB

lespaul said:


> thanks for the quick reply!
> 
> ok so tomorrow ill get:
> 2 x http://www.altronics.com.au/p/h1851-red-4.8mm-male-spade-crimp-pk-10/
> for each of the power inlet and outlets


Wrong type...you need the female spade connectors
and they will only work for those terminals with a single wire going in 
For the ones where you need to branch two wires out you will need the yellow coloured ones
Look at zwitters document for some images (or use my image in the previous page if you want to see one slightly less well done)




lespaul said:


> and for the SSR ground ill need 2 ring crimps
> http://www.altronics.com.au/p/h1825-yellow-8mm-ring-crimp-pk-10/


Might struggle getting the ring ones in place due to the tight spacing. I used the U shaped spade connectors as these dont have to line up with the hole exactly and can be more easily bent 90 degrees




lespaul said:


> with regards to heatshrink, is it advisable to just put the heatshrink on the wire but not heat it yet until the sparky has checked it?
> something like this will be OK on the terminals: http://www.altronics...eless-heat-gun/


Personally I dont think there is any need for any heatshrink as the terminals are covering any exposed areas of the cable (and the box should never be powered on when opened anyway)


----------



## bigmacthepunker

MisterWilson said:


> Wrapped to finally have this in my hands.
> 
> I have not started on the 240v side of things but hit a little hurdle with the pump/heater LEDs. I have the buttons all connected but when I start up via USB the pump LED lights up fine but the heater one doesn't light up despite it registering on the screen.
> 
> I swapped the LEDs around just to rule out a faulty LED and the red one lit up when I was pushing the pump button. So it doesn't seem to be an LED problem just wonder if the board has some sort of fault or if there is something else that can be done.


Hi Mister, 
The heat LED doesn't work if the temp of the probe is higher than the set temp, I have realised. I hope that this fixes your problem.
Cheers 
Bigmacthepunker


----------



## Ferg

crozdog said:


> Also, I am interested to see how everyone plans to do their plumbing including the output to a tap and if you will restrict the flow out of the pump back to the malt pipe as full flow may be too much. Please post your ideas / thoughts / drawings / pics of your setup.
> 
> Beers
> 
> Croz


This is what I went with. Everything is hard plumbed in with the pump detachable from the skin fittings via the union fittings.
The three way ball valve allows the pump to be primed (although in reality its not really needed) and also for the wort to be pumped out at the end. As I am using a plate chiller it allows me to pump through that if I wanted and also then to recirculate some cleaning solution later on. It also mean I don't have to add another ball valve on the side of the pot (in theory).

A few things I have discovered; the angle between the inlet and outlet of the pump is not 90 degrees, its more like 95 which puts the whole thing on the piss. It still sealed up properly though. You need to make sure you get a port T type ball valve as the L type will not work....

As an aside, on the wort side of my plate chiller I want to add some of the stainless quick connects from keg king (http://kegking.com.au/misc-plumbing-fittings/quick-connects.html). Does anyone know if they are compatible with the standard garden hose fittings? Ideally I would like to be able to swap over so I can back flush with the garden hose if I need to. 

# This post probably belongs more in the next gen thread..


----------



## zwitter

Hi Mister, 
The heat LED doesn't work if the temp of the probe is higher than the set temp, I have realised. I hope that this fixes your problem.
Cheers 
Bigmacthepunker

Absolutely correct, think this is in my document, caught me out too, a long time ago.
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

A few comments
Les Paul
Insulated crimp terminals do not need heatshrink.
For the SSRs I think the space is a bit tight for crimp terminals and twisting the strands then make a U shape and tighten down well. the U should go both sides of the screw so it calmps down flat if on one side the joint will not be as good.

The 4.8mm crimps will need a little squishing to get a good connection.
For the ground on the SSRs and heatsink you can use the ring type terminals. then bend them, tight but will fit.

4mm will be too hard to work with and over kill for this project. The SSRs can switch 40A but the rest is not up to that current.

Mister Wilson
What is the temp set to in manual mode? As the element does not turn on if the target temp is already reached. Did you run the setup and enter some values etc? Do you have anything plugged in to the temp output of the board?

Lael and I have done some videos and they should answer some questions.

zwitter


----------



## lespaul

Spent so long focusing on blue/red I linked the wrong male version haha got it though. 
Thanks for the feedback guys. Ordered an automatic wire stripper and crimper off eBay, so I'll have to wait for that sucker to arrive. Hopefully well have some videos by then


----------



## LiquidCurrency

barneey said:


> I don't have my kit at the moment but are those things fully bonded together, if not, is it possible to replace the coloured part?


Have ordered a few on eBay. Only $1 ea


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Kingy said:


> I had the same problem with mine as I didn't want to force them on. Fixed the problem by pushing them right in.
> I'm only new to these things but playing around in the mash step profiles I can't seem to set the temp lower than 68degrees but I'm sure it's operater error.


Have you changed it to Celsius from F?


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Still need to point to point test but pretty much done!


----------



## real_beer

.


----------



## SBOB

LiquidCurrency said:


> Still need to point to point test but pretty much done!
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1447032013.957051.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1447032061.873080.jpg


nice work
what size/types of cables are they for the 240v side?


----------



## Mister Wilson

Thanks for the help guys.

Been tied up with kids and work since hitting the hurdle but hopefully get back to it later this week.


----------



## LiquidCurrency

You will get away with using 1.5mm on a 2000w element however I've used 2.5mm on the 240 side as it will cope with higher current if i decide to use a larger element on a different system in the future.
The plugs and SSR's are also rated to 20A so in theory you should be able to drive up to a 4800w element (x2 for each relay) providing you have a 20A supply at your socket outlet.
PS. I tend to over-engineer things, it's a bad habit of mine.


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Don't forget all your earths MUST measure <1 ohm back to the plug.


----------



## lespaul

When you just use a larger wire to get the maximum capacity the unit has to offer, does seem over engineered... Seems pretty logical to me!


----------



## SBOB

LiquidCurrency said:


> You will get away with using 1.5mm on a 2000w element however I've used 2.5mm on the 240 side as it will cope with higher current if i decide to use a larger element on a different system in the future.
> 
> PS. I tend to over-engineer things, it's a bad habit of mine.


nothing wrong with that, the plugs are rated to 20A so makes sense to wire internally for 15-20A use in the future so that should that day ever come you dont need to rewire it

Looking at yours, I'm wishing I had used slightly more flexible 2.5mm cabling (i just used some tps+earth I had lying around which made neatly bending/routing the cables a bit trickier)


----------



## LiquidCurrency

SBOB said:


> nothing wrong with that, the plugs are rated to 20A so makes sense to wire internally for 15-20A use in the future so that should that day ever come you dont need to rewire it
> 
> Looking at yours, I'm wishing I had used slightly more flexible 2.5mm cabling (i just used some tps+earth I had lying around which made neatly bending/routing the cables a bit trickier)


Yea I thought about using that too. The 2.5 TPS is nice and rigid in that it bends and sets neatly and stays that way. 
I did use it on the pump relay too which, even for flex, i found a bit rigid for the plug at the board. Just need to be delicate with it when opening.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Liquidcurrency
Quote"
Yea I thought about using that too. The 2.5 TPS is nice and rigid in that it bends and sets neatly and stays that way. 
I did use it on the pump relay too which, even for flex, i found a bit rigid for the plug at the board. Just need to be delicate with it when opening."

The Pump circuit in the Brauduino is a relay so a mechanical switch with contacts rated at 5A. The reason for using a relay and not an SSR is that the SSRs only switch AC power and do not work with DC power. So any one using the LBP on 12 volts can still use our controller.

If you plug even a 2000W element into the pump outlet and switch the relay on you may well burn the relay contacts. The relay can be replaced but not a good idea.

2.5 wire (from twin and earth TPS) is really not suitable for the connection to the little green connector to the relay. if you see the photos of mine you will see I used thinner flexible 240v wire as you would find in a power cord from any electrical device. the flex will save risking the plug coming off or putting strain on the PCB.

the 5A on the relay will switch power for march 809, Chugger etc on 240v and also if wired for 12v will switch power for LBP etc. If anyone needs assistance to wire for 12v pump then let me know and will provide information.

zwitter


----------



## ramu_gupta

zwitter said:


> If anyone needs assistance to wire for 12v pump then let me know and will provide information.
> 
> zwitter


Hey zwitter

Would appreciate some information about best practice for wiring up a LBP.


----------



## Ferg

LiquidCurrency said:


> Still need to point to point test but pretty much done!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1447032013.957051.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1447032061.873080.jpg


That's some tidy wiring! What did you use to loop the ssrs on the 12v side?


----------



## SBOB

ramu_gupta said:


> Hey zwitter
> 
> Would appreciate some information about best practice for wiring up a LBP.


The switching of the pump power is done via the relay on the board (connecting the left to the right side of the plug connection on the board for the pump). If you want to wire the pump outlet to be only 12V then wiring only 12 V through this will provide you with a switched 12V source you can use for the LBP

_*The following should be taken with whatever grains of salt you feel comfortable with, with respect to getting advice of a random person on a forum regarding electrical work:*_
Assuming you want to connect it using the same plug/sockets on the back, you could do the following (I'm assuming the 12V transformer is capable of running the LBP, I'm sure Zwitter will clarify if it isnt)

For the socket you are going to use for the pump outlet from the box:
- Wire the N to the -ve output from the 12V transformer (12v side)
- Wire the L to the right output of the pump connector/relay on the board
- Wire the Ground as normal (though I dont think the LBP has a ground/earth connector)

- Wire the +ve from the 12V transformer (12v side) to the left output of the pump connector/relay on the board

Now when the pump is called to run the pump relay will switch/activate and 12V will be present on that socket.

Wire the plug to suit (N to the -, L to the + ) using whatever external cabling you feel suitable for the LBP. for the LBP however you intend to wire it)


----------



## SBOB

Ferg said:


> That's some tidy wiring! What did you use to loop the ssrs on the 12v side?


if you look at the board side image you will see that they have taken two wires out of each of the +/- connectors on the heater plug.
Then each wire is run into one of the +/- connectors on the SSRs (so technically there is no loop as each is being driven/switched directly from the board)


----------



## LiquidCurrency

SBOB said:


> if you look at the board side image you will see that they have taken two wires out of each of the +/- connectors on the heater plug.
> Then each wire is run into one of the +/- connectors on the SSRs (so technically there is no loop as each is being driven/switched directly from the board)


That's true. I decided not to loop at the SSR's, and to run pair for each relay. Not sure why, I think I just found it neater.
I prefer not to loop too much. Continuous looping can cause over loading on the cable at the start of the loop circuit, would take a fair few SSR's to do this however.


----------



## zwitter

Hi ramu_gupta

SBOB has described the correct way but is a little confusing.
Basically the realy on the PCB is just a switch. When on the two terminals are connected together. The power supply (it is not a transformer) is rated to deliver 2Amps. The PCB and arduino Mega and driving the SSRs etc uses only a fraction of that. The LBP says it draws 0.67 amps so should be fine using the internal supply. Would probably drive 2x LBPs but would need to be mindful that the extra draw will create additional heat in the controller.

You can use the pump socket supplied and use the active and neutral pins. Then it is just a matter getting polarity correct. V- to the pump socket, V+ to the relay plug and other side of relay plug to the other pin of the pump socket. 

I would still connect the earth to the socket and to any metal of the pump as appropriate.

Or can add additional socket if you can find the space on the back of the controller.

Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

zwitter said:


> Hi ramu_gupta
> 
> SBOB has described the correct way but is a little confusing.


 made sense in my head


----------



## ramu_gupta

Thanks zwitter... looking forward to giving it a go.


----------



## Ferg

Bloody hell, I think my eyes are playing a trick on me!
Not sure what I'm looking at but it looked a grey / white loop which now that I really think about it would be across the wrong terminals... Carry on


----------



## The Judge

For someone who failed Electrical Engineering 101, can you clarify what's actually going on in the box? 

From my limited understanding:
The SSRs switch the heating elements on/off (which are instructed by the PCB (or the Arduino? This part I also don't know)).
Given that the pump is such a small load, it is switched on and off by the PCB (no requirement for a 20A SSR).
The power supply transforms 240V to 12V to power the PCB (in theory this could be removed and a USB connection from a computer provided directly to the Arduino?).
The aux power and aux heat don't need to be wired up if you aren't going to use them (but maybe best to do it now for future-proofing).

Additionally, could the aux heat switch be configured to operate a solenoid valve?


----------



## SBOB

The Judge said:


> For someone who failed Electrical Engineering 101, can you clarify what's actually going on in the box?
> 
> From my limited understanding:
> The SSRs switch the heating elements on/off (which are instructed by the PCB (or the Arduino? This part I also don't know)).
> _*The SSR's work by*_
> _* - When an active 12v signal is received on the control side, they switch the power on the load side. So in this case the control side is a 12v signal from the Arduino board and the load side is the 240v connection*_
> 
> _*This 12v signal can be constant, or in the case of the heater control from the Adruino board, switching on and off at a fast/controlled rate to PWM control the heating element*_
> *The wikipedia entry on SSR's provides plenty of basic info to understand how they work*
> 
> Given that the pump is such a small load, it is switched on and off by the PCB (no requirement for a 20A SSR).
> _*Yes, the PCB contains the relay which is activated when the pump is required*_
> _*(much lower current requirements and no requirement for any fast switching PWM control either which would likely be both too fast and wear our the relay.. regular relays arent designed for that kind of switching)*_
> 
> The power supply transforms 240V to 12V to power the PCB (in theory this could be removed and a USB connection from a computer provided directly to the Arduino?).
> _*This, along with supplying the voltage for control of the SSRs (via the Arduino board)*_
> _*The Arduino board can be powered from the USB port (like when the system isnt powered up) but I dont believe this would provide the voltage/current required to operate the ssr and pump relays (someone else can clarify that one for you)*_
> 
> The aux power and aux heat don't need to be wired up if you aren't going to use them (but maybe best to do it now for future-proofing).
> _*Nope. These are unrequired but you may as well wire them up now (or should I say your electrician should) as the extra time is minimal in the scheme of the project *_
> 
> Additionally, could the aux heat switch be configured to operate a solenoid valve?
> *As they are both controlled from the same 12V source the current board would not have the control outputs to provide you with a third 'control' signal *
> *And you would also need to write the code for this control outputs operation also*


----------



## The Judge

Thanks SBOB - legend.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Judge
(Sorry SBOB)

The Arduino Mega is basically a computer on a single board. It has a processor, memory for program and inputs and outputs. This is where we load the ArdBir software.

The Brauduino "shield" the bigger green PCB is the bit we have that converts the signals from the Arduino into signals big enough to drive SSRs, relays, LEDs etc.

The shield board only has enough inputs and outputs for the current design. The Arduino Mega has lots more memory and inputs and outputs that have no connection to interface electronics at this time.

You could control other valves, hop droppers etc but will need some extra electronics and have software written to drive it.

There are possibilities for the second SSR and plug and sockets if you never want a dual element system. It would be possible to use the second SSR to drive the pump but at this time it is better to concentrate on the standard build 

As to USB to power it sort of works but will not run the SSRs and relay as they use the 12v. The Usb only runs the Arduino and some other bits like the LCD.
Also it could create dangerous situations as far as isolation and not a good idea at all.

Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

zwitter said:


> Hi Judge
> (Sorry SBOB)
> .....
> Zwitter
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


What are you sorry for? More information is always better, and you and Lael definitely have more specific knowledge/experience with this project and it's components.


----------



## lael

A quick update - slugger dog sent his unit to me to check out. Finished marking last night and started checking it out. Basically, it looks like there are 2 issues to be aware of. 

#1. The SSRs are designed to go DC side to DC in the center so that the AC points are far away from each other. Make sure you notice that the + and - for the dc are on opposite sides where they meet in middle and wire them appropriately. 

#2. There seems to be an issue with ardbir 2.8.3 that prevents the heat from switching on. The same behaviour is not present in v 2.6.7 which is what most units shipped with. I'll try to figure out what is going on this weekend.


----------



## marksy

Hey gang,

So for the guys that have wired this already and used 2.5mm cable, what spade connectors did you use? 

The real question I`m asking, I can only find atm 4.8mm for max 2.5mm cable, how`d you fit 20Amp rated cable into that whole? I`m all for tight holes but this one seems a little too tight. 

I can find 6.8mm which will do it, did you use that and squash the sides down? 

Marksy


----------



## gap

marksy said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> So for the guys that have wired this already and used 2.5mm cable, what spade connectors did you use?
> 
> The real question I`m asking, I can only find atm 4.8mm for max 2.5mm cable, how`d you fit 20Amp rated cable into that whole? I`m all for tight holes but this one seems a little too tight.
> 
> I can find 6.8mm which will do it, did you use that and squash the sides down?
> 
> Marksy


Jaycar have 4.8 mm female spades in the yellow colour. Check online.


----------



## marksy

gap said:


> Jaycar have 4.8 mm female spades in the yellow colour. Check online.


Yeah I know that, but I can only find them in 4.8mm x 2.5mm cable size. If I`m already using 2.5mm cable how the hell can I fit more in? I am wiring mine for 20Amps.

What has everyone done?


----------



## tateg

marksy said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> So for the guys that have wired this already and used 2.5mm cable, what spade connectors did you use?
> 
> The real question I`m asking, I can only find atm 4.8mm for max 2.5mm cable, how`d you fit 20Amp rated cable into that whole? I`m all for tight holes but this one seems a little too tight.
> 
> I can find 6.8mm which will do it, did you use that and squash the sides down?
> 
> Marksy


Could try these ones 


http://www.jaycar.com.au/Wire%2C-Cable-%26-Accessories/Cable-Accessories/Quick-Connect-Terminals/Mini-Female-Spade---Yellow---Pk-8/p/PT4722
Cable entry size 6.6mm.- Wire size 4 - 6mm dia.- Spade width - 4.8mm.- PKT 8...


----------



## SBOB

tateg said:


> Could try these ones
> 
> 
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/Wire%2C-Cable-%26-Accessories/Cable-Accessories/Quick-Connect-Terminals/Mini-Female-Spade---Yellow---Pk-8/p/PT4722
> Cable entry size 6.6mm.- Wire size 4 - 6mm dia.- Spade width - 4.8mm.- PKT 8...


<- what they said 

The colours standards are generally (quick google copy paste):

Red coloured insulation is for wire sizes 0.5 - 1.5 mm dia, 
Blue coloured insulation suits cables 1.5 - 2.5 mm dia , 
Yellow coloured insulation is good for 4.0 - 6.0 mm dia


----------



## marksy

Sweet Cheers. I could not find a 4.8mm on jaycar to save myself.


----------



## Bazzab

Hi everyone,
It seems that there are quite a few questions re the wiring of the controller.
For general information, there are many ways of expressing wire sizes.
Household electrical wiring dimensions are specified in mm2 (square milli metres). A google search will show the other terms used.
On the other hand the female spade terminals that are being referred to are identified by the diameter of the wire they will accept.
It is a concern to see these two standards (?)being used without clarification.
There is just too much at stake to assume that you think you understand what is meant without reference to correct size/dimensions.

Just my two bobs worth.

Cheers
Bazza B


----------



## lael

marksy said:


> Yeah I know that, but I can only find them in 4.8mm x 2.5mm cable size. If I`m already using 2.5mm cable how the hell can I fit more in? I am wiring mine for 20Amps.
> 
> What has everyone done?


Mine is wired with 2.5mm flex (rated to 20A) with single crimp on connectors (red) they are wired into a terminal block for splitting etc. I think the way Zwitter and others have done it with daisy chained connectors is neater


----------



## marksy

BazzaB said:


> Hi everyone,
> It seems that there are quite a few questions re the wiring of the controller.
> For general information, there are many ways of expressing wire sizes.
> Household electrical wiring dimensions are specified in mm2 (square milli metres). A google search will show the other terms used.
> On the other hand the female spade terminals that are being referred to are identified by the diameter of the wire they will accept.
> It is a concern to see these two standards (?)being used without clarification.
> There is just too much at stake to assume that you think you understand what is meant without reference to correct size/dimensions.
> 
> Just my two bobs worth.
> 
> Cheers
> Bazza B


They don't make cables in a thickness of 4.8mm or 6.8mm do they?


----------



## zwitter

Wire and crimp,sizing

Wire is the area of the copper conductor. Calculated by calulating the area of a single strand and multiplying by the number of strands. And yes they make 4mm 6mm 10mm etc. average house main wires to the street are 16mm.

Crimp terminals are measured by the width of the terminal. Standard spade is 1/4 inch so about 6.25mm. The ones we use on the sockets are 4.8mm. The insulated terminals we generally use have coloured insulation that tells the size of wire that will fir in the crimp bit. Red, blue and yellow. As i stated in my build instructions the blue will take one 2.5mm and yellow will take 2x 2.5mm cables if you twist them together. 

They Are available at Jaycar as that is where mine came from. I would think supacheap or Repco etc will have or can order in.

Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Hi brauduino brewers

ArdBir 2.8.3RC8 heater problems.

There are no issues with this revision. The problem AFAIK is that you have not run setup and entered correct values.
I just uploaded mine and it would not heat (as expected)
Then went into setup and guess what set for GAS heating! ( i bet most of you never. Even knew that was an option)
I Set to electric and Fahrenheit to Celsius etc and it tuns elements on as expected

Therefore i will state that the error is between the chair and the keyboard.........


I think I have said this before

YOU MUST RUN THE SETUP

And again after software reloads etc

Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## lael

lael said:


> A quick update - slugger dog sent his unit to me to check out. Finished marking last night and started checking it out. Basically, it looks like there are 2 issues to be aware of.
> 
> #1. The SSRs are designed to go DC side to DC in the center so that the AC points are far away from each other. Make sure you notice that the + and - for the dc are on opposite sides where they meet in middle and wire them appropriately.
> 
> #2. There seems to be an issue with ardbir 2.8.3 that prevents the heat from switching on. The same behaviour is not present in v 2.6.7 which is what most units shipped with. I'll try to figure out what is going on this weekend.


#3 - If you are using twin and earth for your 240v side, make sure that it is not sticking up too high in the box. Fitting everything in one relatively small box was hard. There is about an inch between the back of the power sockets and the back of the Arduino Mega. If your twin and earth sits high and pushes against the arduino mega, it can push it off the pins and cause a loose fit and potentially arcing (will destroy your arduino). Twin and earth has fewer, more solid cores. It is slightly more rigid, which allows you to 'shape' the wire. Flex has a lot more thinner strands and is... more flexible - but it also can't be 'shaped'. Choose wisely. Make sure there isn't pressure pushing your arduino off its pins. 

Have fun building!  

oh of course - stay safe, get everything built / checked by an electrician


----------



## peterl1981

zwitter said:


> Hi brauduino brewers
> 
> ArdBir 2.8.3RC8 heater problems.
> 
> There are no issues with this revision. The problem AFAIK is that you have not run setup and entered correct values.
> I just uploaded mine and it would not heat (as expected)
> Then went into setup and guess what set for GAS heating! ( i bet most of you never. Even knew that was an option)
> I Set to electric and Fahrenheit to Celsius etc and it tuns elements on as expected
> 
> Therefore i will state that the error is between the chair and the keyboard.........
> 
> 
> I think I have said this before
> 
> YOU MUST RUN THE SETUP
> 
> And again after software reloads etc
> 
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Yeah zwitter i brewed on Saturday with no problems with the 2.8.3rc8 version new controller rocks


----------



## lael

Looks like zwitter found the error... it was me, not the software!  

Thanks James!


----------



## Cervantes

lynchman said:


> Yeah zwitter i brewed on Saturday with no problems with the 2.8.3rc8 version new controller rocks


What's the difference between the two revisions.

I'm technically challenged, so if there isn't a huge difference between the two version and the controller work with the old version, then I'll probably just stick with that.

What are the advantages of upgrading to the new version?

Thanks


----------



## breakbeer

Might just get this guy to wire up my controller 

https://www.facebook.com/809916069040342/videos/1141335119231767/

What could go wrong


----------



## drofmob

I bought a 80mm fan for the heat sink today. The heat sink holes are 10mm or more narrower than the fan holes. Is the info on the build video incorrect or do I have a different fan design.


----------



## breakbeer

10mm larger, that's quite a large hole for a computer fan. 

Can you post a pic of the fan?


----------



## Bazzab

breakbeer said:


> 10mm larger, that's quite a large hole for a computer fan.
> 
> Can you post a pic of the fan?


Maybe 10mm difference in dimension between holes??
Bazza


----------



## zwitter

Hi Tassiehopper

The required fan is a 70mm version at 12v

Can be found on ebay etc.
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## drofmob

Thanks Zwitter.
I got the 12v bit right at least h34r:
Yer sorry not real clear on my description, distance between the holes. Should have measured it first.


----------



## lael

OK, Thanks for waiting for these - Wiring Videos! 

https://youtu.be/3qyy9YIK9tA

https://youtu.be/zpeHHUmGcak

I've posted these on both threads as I know a lot of people are subscribed to the buy thread that are not subscribed to the build thread.


----------



## zwitter

Great work Lael !!!

OK a bit of self promotion in there too.

I noticed one error in what I said but is a technical error of nomenclature.

And yes they are my chickens in the background learning how to wire the Brauduino! Actually they love the Malt ex mash.....

zwitter


----------



## The Judge

lael said:


> The same behaviour is not present in v 2.6.7 which is what most units shipped with.


Guys, just confirming that the user manual for v 2.6.7 is as per v 2.6.62 in the dropbox link here?


----------



## Cervantes

The Judge said:


> Guys, just confirming that the user manual for v 2.6.7 is as per v 2.6.62 in the dropbox link here?


Thanks for that.

I downloaded the English version, but unfortunately it was all Greek to me.

I'm hoping that I won't need to get into any programing and that the controller will work out of the box. Can anyone confirm this.


----------



## SBOB

Cervantes said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> I downloaded the English version, but unfortunately it was all Greek to me.
> 
> I'm hoping that I won't need to get into any programing and that the controller will work out of the box. Can anyone confirm this.


you will need to go through the setup process to set some values/params..
I think Lael/Zwitter had plans to make one of these guides/vids (along with a software update one)??


----------



## matt211181

This might help if anyone else is trying to mount the temp probe in-line......I picked up a brass plug from the big green shed for $2 and bored out the inside by about 1-2mm on a mates lathe, and drilled a 10mm hole through the top:


----------



## sluggerdog

I didn't have the option of being able to bore out the inside of the 15mm plug so I am planning the following, I bought the parts yesterday and will drill it out today:


20mm cap (10mm hole drilled though this)





20mm x 15mm reducer





Then into the standard 1/2 BSP t-piece.

Similar result to BobCharlie in the end though just another option for those who do not have the ability to bore out the normal plug.

I also found these same parts on ebay from china which are on their way but the brass will work until they finally turn up.

ebay reducer and ebay cap


----------



## SBOB

BobCharlie said:


> This might help if anyone else is trying to mount the temp probe in-line......I picked up a brass plug from the big green shed for $2 and bored out the inside by about 1-2mm on a mates lathe, and drilled a 10mm hole through the top:


and when will you start selling these?


----------



## lael

Quick Video on how to update the 'sketch' on your Brauduino Controller:
https://youtu.be/JzG7AXbyvsU


----------



## lespaul

So the "speaker cable" I got is figure 8 7.5 amp rated cable. Is this the same as the cable mentioned in the video for the SSR?
Also the brown flex cable doesn't say what amps it is. Would 10 amp be fine or should I go for the 20 amp?
As a side I got the 2.5mm twin and earth for the other wiring
Thanks


----------



## SBOB

lael said:


> Quick Video on how to update the 'sketch' on your Brauduino Controller:
> https://youtu.be/JzG7AXbyvsU


and for any mac users:
Library file location is "Documents\Adruino\libraries" (dump OneWire and PID_v1 folders in here. Mine didnt detect it first attempt but did the second)


----------



## SBOB

lespaul said:


> So the "speaker cable" I got is figure 8 7.5 amp rated cable. Is this the same as the cable mentioned in the video for the SSR?


Can't remember what Lael/Zwitter mentioned in the vid but thats plenty as its only carrying a low voltage (12v) switching signal to the control side of the SSR to turn the SSR on/off on the load side



lespaul said:


> Also the brown flex cable doesn't say what amps it is. Would 10 amp be fine or should I go for the 20 amp?


Thats purely for running the pump so 10Amp is plenty/overkill (even a March 809 pump only draws less than 1Amp)


----------



## zwitter

Hey Lepaul

What SBOB said

The signal side of the SSRs from the PCB is milli amps. So bugger all and any small cable will do.

For the power feed to the power supply also very little current. I used 7.5Amp odd 240 v figure 8 and is over kill

For the power to and back from the relay for the pump use the 7.5Amp figure 8. It will be more than enough for any pump.

Only the main power in and heater out and the connections to the 240v side of the SSRs needs to be 20Amp

Zwitter
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## lespaul

Thanks!


----------



## real_beer

QUOTE:
Quick Video on how to update the 'sketch' on your Brauduino Controller:
https://youtu.be/JzG7AXbyvsU
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another great job well done lael :icon_cheers:


----------



## lael

Here we go:

A quick video to show you how to run through set up on your Brauduino Controller.

Cheers!

https://youtu.be/C_HDUacxeNs

Let me know if there is anything else you want to see / know how to do


----------



## bigmacthepunker

zwitter said:


> Hey Lepaul
> 
> 
> 
> For the power feed to the power supply also very little current. I used 7.5Amp odd 240 v figure 8 and is over kill
> 
> For the power to and back from the relay for the pump use the 7.5Amp figure 8. It will be more than enough for any pump.
> 
> Zwitter
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Just be very careful not to plug the heater into the pump socket. As that will draw more than the circuits can handle and fry the relay and cables. 
Cheers
Bigmacthepunker


----------



## SBOB

lael said:


> Here we go:
> 
> A quick video to show you how to run through set up on your Brauduino Controller.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> https://youtu.be/C_HDUacxeNs


Glad to see that I'm not alone with the invaid chars at the end of the line...
Haven't bothered looking through the code but I imagine its because its not clearing whatever was validly displayed there last




lael said:


> Let me know if there is anything else you want to see / know how to do


Does that include pots, malt pipes and stainless mesh?


----------



## ramu_gupta

lael said:


> Here we go:
> 
> A quick video to show you how to run through set up on your Brauduino Controller.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> https://youtu.be/C_HDUacxeNs
> 
> Let me know if there is anything else you want to see / know how to do


Thanks Lael

Can you explain what the 'Heat in Boil" setting means in the latest software?
What value should it be set at?

Almost finished a test run with water and looking forward to brewing my first beer with it..


----------



## SBOB

SBOB said:


> Glad to see that I'm not alone with the invaid chars at the end of the line...
> Haven't bothered looking through the code but I imagine its because its not clearing whatever was validly displayed there last


so being both bored and OCD in equal parts this morning, the following is what you need to update in the code if you dont want to see the annoying extra character during the PID settings pages

- Open the ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.ino file with whatever version of the Arduino software you are using
- Navigate across the top to the file named 'LCD20x4_ENG.h' (assuming you are using the english language, if you aren't then I havent checked the others)
- Find the routine '_void PidSet(int pidSet, byte i)_'
- Find the line (line 2 in the routine) that says '_lcd.setCursor(10, 2);_'
- Update it to '_lcd.setCursor(9, 2);_'
- Re 'Verify', and 'Upload' the code
(all settings will likely be wiped and need setting again, but the annoying extra character on all the PID pages should now be fixed)

I cant see anywhere in the code that indicates to me that this change will cause any issues, but it goes without saying that 'don't blame me if it breaks anything'  Looking at the history of the file it looks like this was broken back in Feb but hasnt been fixed/updated... 

Pic attached to show the line needing updating


----------



## SBOB

ramu_gupta said:


> Thanks Lael
> 
> Can you explain what the 'Heat in Boil" setting means in the latest software?
> What value should it be set at?


The manual should be able to tell you what each of the settings relate to 

In summary its the following
'Heating power percentage applied to heating element during boil.'
Meaning what % of the full power of your heating element is required to maintain a boil
e.g. if you had a 2400w element in something like 30-40 litres it would likely be something ~100%. 
If you had a 5000W element in something of the same size it would be much lower as 100% power would be too much heat

I have attached it to save some searching, but
-Its available via their dropbox link if you follow it from their github page - https://github.com/ArdBir/Open-ArdBir 

View attachment ArdBir Manual ENG (2.8.x).pdf


----------



## ramu_gupta

SBOB said:


> The manual should be able to tell you what each of the settings relate to
> 
> In summary its the following
> 'Heating power percentage applied to heating element during boil.'
> Meaning what % of the full power of your heating element is required to maintain a boil
> e.g. if you had a 2400w element in something like 30-40 litres it would likely be something ~100%.
> If you had a 5000W element in something of the same size it would be much lower as 100% power would be too much heat
> 
> I have attached it to save some searching, but
> -Its available via their dropbox link if you follow it from their github page - https://github.com/ArdBir/Open-ArdBir


Thanks SBOB

My LCD screens calls it "Heat in Boil" and the manual calls it "PWM". Didn't know they were the same..
Will set it for 100% for 2000W element in 28L boil. 

Cheers


----------



## LiquidCurrency

ramu_gupta said:


> Thanks SBOB
> 
> My LCD screens calls it "Heat in Boil" and the manual calls it "PWM". Didn't know they were the same..
> Will set it for 100% for 2000W element in 28L boil.
> 
> Cheers


How can it reduce the Heat In Boil when the element is only running off an SSR? SSR's are simply on and off. Or do they not stay on the whole time and switch a lot more during the boil??


----------



## SBOB

LiquidCurrency said:


> How can it reduce the Heat In Boil when the element is only running off an SSR? SSR's are simply on and off. Or do they not stay on the whole time and switch a lot more during the boil??


They switch on and off quickly, using pulse width modulation (in this instance) is to essentially reduce the average voltage sent to a load
The controllers PID loop essentially turns the SSR on and off multiple times in a second to reduce the power % being produced

Always on - 100%
Always off - 0%
switch on/off at different rates for anywhere in between

Wiki and the Arduino site will explain it in more logical terms than me (most likely  )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/PWM


----------



## MastersBrewery

Breakbeer pmed me regarding the active wiring diagram particularly the 3 connections @ the main power in, this pin connects to 3 locations but can daisy chain, be jumped from one to the next in what ever order best suits you. The attached image has been altered the black line is a deletion.
hope This helps some.

Mike


----------



## crozdog

Thanks Lael & SBOB for the code updating info.

Can 1 of you pls provide the links to the OneWire and PID_v1 libraries?

Also, has there been any progress on sourcing pots for malt pipes & nice thick filter plates (top & bottom)?

​only asking as i have the controller built and want to get to work on the brewery itself.

Beers
Croz


----------



## SBOB

crozdog said:


> Can 1 of you pls provide the links to the OneWire and PID_v1 libraries?


they are in the links on the youtube video Lael posted


Links: 
Arduino Software: 
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software 

Arduino Libraries: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq9ou60md4j...

ArdBir Dropbox Link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50...


----------



## crozdog

Thanks mate.


----------



## crozdog

Thanks mate.


I found 
OneWire here
https://github.com/PaulStoffregen/OneWire

and

PID_v1 here
https://github.com/br3ttb/Arduino-PID-Library


----------



## MastersBrewery

crozdog said:


> Thanks Lael & SBOB for the code updating info.
> 
> Can 1 of you pls provide the links to the OneWire and PID_v1 libraries?
> 
> Also, has there been any progress on sourcing pots for malt pipes & nice thick filter plates (top & bottom)?
> 
> ​only asking as i have the controller built and want to get to work on the brewery itself.
> 
> Beers
> Croz


 I've seen the samples Lael has chased down, if I were to build again I'd be waiting on these. Lael has set a high standard with the controller, that hasn't shifted with the rest of the parts he is sourcing. But give the bloke some space to breath, I'm sure he'll post something when he believes it's appropriate and he has his ducks lined up as they should be. 
Mike

Ed: bloody phone!!


----------



## lespaul

Ok, so im having a little trouble deciphering this.

Is it possible to wire the active up with 2 wires out of the SSR, as per diagram ive drawn?

I just cant fit the 3 wires into the spade fitting as per original diagram, outlined in yellow.

This would then mean i dont have to wire the purple wire in the diagram.

edit: also for the new red line ive drawn (not straight line) can i just use the low amp speaker cable, or do i use the 2.5mm twin and earth cable?

Thanks


----------



## SBOB

lespaul said:


> Ok, so im having a little trouble deciphering this.
> 
> Is it possible to wire the active up with 2 wires out of the SSR, as per diagram ive drawn?
> 
> I just cant fit the 3 wires into the spade fitting as per original diagram, outlined in yellow.
> 
> This would then mean i dont have to wire the purple wire in the diagram?
> 
> edit: also for the new red line ive drawn (not straight line) can i just use the low amp speaker cable, or do i use the 2.5mm twin and earth cable?
> 
> Thanks


not sure I follow that diagram but, from the main power in it just needs to get to the three points directly (i.e. not switched)
- SSR 1 - 240V in
- Board - Pump In
- 12V Transfomer - 240V In

So for your drawing I would probably go
Main Power Socket
-> SSR (2.5mm) 
-> Board Pump In (whatever cable you are using)

Then take a 240V out from the SSR 240V in (that you just took from the main power socket) and daisy chain the SSR's Power in to make a connection to the 12V Transformer (which will be 'over there' in that direction with regards to the board layout anyway)
I would just use the same 2.5mm cable for this for 'consistency' in your wiring

(which, I think is what your redline is asking whether that would be ok)


----------



## MastersBrewery

That will work, I'd prefere the other way, input> ssr> pump and input> 12v suppy as I've illustrated a few posts back. 

Mike


----------



## lespaul

OK so I just wired it all up except the earthing wires the main in and out (ran out of spades!!!).
Dunno if anyone can find any faults before I take it to a sparky?
And if anyone knows or is a sparky who can check it in Brisbane let me know!!

Only took me 7hrs and a t shirt (got thermal paste on it somehow?!).
Good cricket watching activity


----------



## SBOB

lespaul said:


> OK so I just wired it all up except the earthing wires the main in and out (ran out of spades!!!).
> Dunno if anyone can find any faults before I take it to a sparky?
> And if anyone knows or is a sparky who can check it in Brisbane let me know!!
> 
> Only took me 7hrs and a t shirt (got thermal paste on it somehow?!).
> Good cricket watching activity


a couple of quick ones....
1_ where does the neutral/black wire heading out of the bottom of the image head? just realised that was the thermometer probe..scratch that 
2_ join earth circuits from top circuit and bottom circuit
3_ earth the 12v transformer
4_ cant tell, but make sure your SSR 12v ins are correct polarity (opposite from top/bottom ssr due to swapped +/- locations)


----------



## lespaul

ok that diagram didnt probably explain it correctly

My problem is the area circled in yellow has 3 points and three wires don't fit into the yellow spade. so how do I wire this as per the original diagram posted by MB?

My alternative is posted below in blue. i.e do i either wire up the green or the blue wires... everything in red i have done.

But from what SBOB was saying it cant be switched before being sent to the 12v?

Sorry if this wasn't explained well the first time (or most likely this time either haha)

Cheers


----------



## SBOB

lespaul said:


> ok that diagram didnt probably explain it correctly
> 
> My problem is the area circled in yellow has 3 points and three wires don't fit into the yellow spade. so how do I wire this as per the original diagram posted by MB?
> 
> My alternative is posted below in blue. i.e do i either wire up the green or the blue wires... everything in red i have done.
> 
> But from what SBOB was saying it cant be switched before being sent to the 12v?
> 
> Sorry if this wasn't explained well the first time (or most likely this time either haha)
> 
> Cheers


Both green and blue wires achieve the same result (direct, always on 240v). So wire it up using the blue line you have drawn.


----------



## barneey

Just a quick question, I intend to use 2 elements with my build, with a couple of pumps (240v 9W original BM ones) is it OK to run both these pumps of the singular pump circuit?


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barnsey

Yes can run both pumps of the one pump output.

With regards to the order of the connections for the active and neutral when daisy chaining. Must connect 20amp cable direct from socket in to SSR and SSR out to socket out. Do not daisy chain the 20amp through the relay connection or the power supply. Can run from the SSR input to the relay and the power supply with smaller wire.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## lespaul

Sorry if that was for my benefit zwitter, it went over my head. Can you make reference to the diagram I drew?
I've wired it up as per blue wire.
If it wasn't for me disregard.


----------



## zwitter

Hi LesPaul

I detest the use of blue and green representing active, why not use grey, purple, orange etc!

The blue "wire" is the better alternative. I do not have more than 2 wires in any of the crimp terminals.

Zwitter

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## LiquidCurrency

lespaul said:


> Ok, so im having a little trouble deciphering this.
> 
> Is it possible to wire the active up with 2 wires out of the SSR, as per diagram ive drawn?
> 
> I just cant fit the 3 wires into the spade fitting as per original diagram, outlined in yellow.
> 
> This would then mean i dont have to wire the purple wire in the diagram.
> 
> edit: also for the new red line ive drawn (not straight line) can i just use the low amp speaker cable, or do i use the 2.5mm twin and earth cable?
> 
> Thanks


I'm wondering if when using a smaller cable to power the power supply of it should be separately fused?
Thoughts anyone?


----------



## lespaul

haha i knew someone wouldn't like blue/green! but paint only has limited abilities!!!
ok it is wired as per the "blue" wire... except the blue wire is actually red


----------



## real_beer

lespaul said:


> haha i knew someone wouldn't like blue/green! but paint only has limited abilities!!!
> ok it is wired as per the "blue" wire... except the blue wire is actually red


lp how can you even wire one up when the buy list shows you haven't even received yours yet?


----------



## zwitter

Liquid currency

No, no need for fuses. If it goes bang you did something wrong. The house fuses should save you.

I strongly recommend you have safety switch(s) installed on everything. Has saved me and some friends due to bad wiring in the house. No earth bonds, no earth in lights or half the power circuits. (My house had 336mA in the earth joint?)

Always better safe than sorry. And get a licensed Sparky to do that.

James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## matt211181

Having a couple of issues, and wondering if anyone else is experiencing the same....

First is, I think I'm getting the "screen scrambling" due to EMI (?) when the pump switches (mentioned in Lael and James' wiring video). When it happens, a series if jibberish letters run across the display from right to left (?). It doesn't happen all the time (it seems to be intermittent) and I can't always repeat it, but when it does occur, it always happens when the pump has been switched on or off. I have tried to keep the 12V and 240V wiring separate as best I can as mentioned in Lael and James' wiring video - but my wiring is not as neat as James', and the wiring becomes a bit of a mash when the box is put together! Any ideas how I could fix this? Is there specific wiring I should be trying to separate? i.e. is the interference caused between the 240V active going to-from the pump relay and the 12V power supply wiring, and so should I try to separate these specifically, or is it just all 240 and 12V wiring in general. My sparky also suggested putting some corrugated split tubing over the 12V power supply and SSR wiring coming from the board to provide some some additional physical separation - but this hasn't seemed to help the interference issue....

Also, does anyone know what is actually happening with the software when the screen scrambling occurs? e.g., if the screen scrambles say, when the pump switches back on after mash-in (as occurred in one of my tests last night), does the programmed mash sequence keep running as normal, but just with a scrambled screen - or has the whole program 'crashed' once the scrambling happens? 

Second issue I think might be software related (I have upgraded to the latest ArdBir version). If I'm in manual mode, and in settings I have the temp probe location set to "internal" and 'pump on boil' set to "off", the pump will switch off once the temperature gets to 80 deg (with 'pump on boil' set to "off", the setting to set the maximum temperature before the pump switches off is disabled - but it appears to be set at 80deg by default?). However, if I go back into settings, set 'pump on boil' set to "on", and then 'pump stop' to "100 deg", then the pump will run to temperatures over 80 deg. So, it seems I can't set the pump to be off during the boil in the settings, but have the pump running when the temp is over 80deg (when switching heat and pump in manual mode that is). Anyone else experience this?

Cheers
Matt


----------



## real_beer

BobCharlie

I'd just concentrate on the main issue first then once that's sorted out move on from there. Make your wires as short as possible, having the pull out connectors makes this a lot easier to do that the original controller design. Having less wire mass in your box should really help. If your having trouble working with stiff wire try using a more flexible option as it's a lot easier too push out of the way, hope this helps.

Even though the screen scrambles the controller will remember where you were when you switched it off and on again and will ask you if you want to pick up from your last session.


----------



## matt211181

Thanks for the advice real_beer, much appreciated! I will try shortening some of the wiring and hopefully that will help. My 12V wiring could be trimmed a bit as it's quite long to allow the lid to sit beside the box, but the rest is pretty short already. I'll try it and see how it goes. 

Thanks again!


----------



## lespaul

what is the likely temperature of the heat sink? im just sussing out the silicone options


----------



## real_beer

lespaul said:


> what is the likely temperature of the heat sink? im just sussing out the silicone options


Any silicone will be okay temperature wise. If your using a tube of it, just pick one that's most suitable to the materials your using it on. If your making your own gasket something like a silicone cake tray from Red Dot works great.


----------



## zwitter

Hi BobCharlie

The scrambling is caused by the switching of the pump. Next to the relay is a yellow block and a resistor. These are a snubbing circuit across the switch of the relay to try to absorb (quench) the spark caused by switching of the pump. SSRs are often zero crossing switches so when the AC voltage is zero it turns the output on and likewise off at a zero point. That effectively makes no switching noise. EMI

In testing we used manual mode and toggled the pump on and off and watched the display for the scramble. We basically thought it was all but totally eliminated.

To minimise we put the snubber in and kept the 240v wiring away from the PCB and the low voltage side of the circuit.

If and only if you are totally safe with tjis suggestion should you do dtnis in t,he company of a sparky. Does the LCD scramble when the lid is not fixed to the base of the box? Ie sitting next to it? I ask as if the wires in the bottom of the box poke upwards near thePCB then that is not good and could cause issues. If you see mine all wires are short and directed away from the PCB. The wire to the relay circuit acts like a transmission antenna so must be short and away from the LCD and PCB. 

There are some alternatives but 99% of the problem was as simple as neat separated wiring. 

What pump are you using? Can you post or send photos of your unit.

James
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## matt211181

zwitter said:


> Hi BobCharlie
> 
> The scrambling is caused by the switching of the pump. Next to the relay is a yellow block and a resistor. These are a snubbing circuit across the switch of the relay to try to absorb (quench) the spark caused by switching of the pump. SSRs are often zero crossing switches so when the AC voltage is zero it turns the output on and likewise off at a zero point. That effectively makes no switching noise. EMI
> 
> In testing we used manual mode and toggled the pump on and off and watched the display for the scramble. We basically thought it was all but totally eliminated.
> 
> To minimise we put the snubber in and kept the 240v wiring away from the PCB and the low voltage side of the circuit.
> 
> If and only if you are totally safe with tjis suggestion should you do dtnis in t,he company of a sparky. Does the LCD scramble when the lid is not fixed to the base of the box? Ie sitting next to it? I ask as if the wires in the bottom of the box poke upwards near thePCB then that is not good and could cause issues. If you see mine all wires are short and directed away from the PCB. The wire to the relay circuit acts like a transmission antenna so must be short and away from the LCD and PCB.
> 
> There are some alternatives but 99% of the problem was as simple as neat separated wiring.
> 
> What pump are you using? Can you post or send photos of your unit.
> 
> James
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Thanks a lot for the explanation James! I haven't tried to cause the scrambling issue with the case open yet (to see if it's related to the wiring being up close to the PCB). FYI - I'm using a March pump.

A couple of pics of the wiring below:






Let me know if you think I could make some improvements to the wiring to help with the scrambling issue.

Cheers!
Matt


----------



## zwitter

Hi Matt

I have a march 809 and a chugger and we also tested with another similar pump and there was little difference between them.

I would suggest pushing the 240 v wiring down in the case and try not to have them crossing the low voltage lines. I grouped the low voltage lines together and also cable tied the pump wires together and then kept one on one side of the box and the other at the other side. 

Do you use 2 elements? 
Dont tell any one but it is possible to use the second SSR to drive the pump. Or it is possible to install a small SSR but that does require soldering irons and tech know how. And really not necessary.

There is another solution and that is to edit the software to refresh the display after turning pump on or off. I think it would be easier to improve the hardware / wiring first.

It is also possible to install shielding and modify the snubber values.

Interested in the lid open tests. Also if any other folks have this issue.



James 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## breakbeer

Just thought I'd show off my colour coded cables. 

Orange = Power In

Red = Heating element

Blue = Pump


----------



## breakbeer

And heres a pic of my wiring, just waiting for my sparky mate to look over it before I fire it up


----------



## real_beer

breakbeer said:


> Just thought I'd show off my colour coded cables.
> 
> Orange = Power In
> 
> Red = Heating element
> 
> Blue = Pump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1448005407.359771.jpg


Luckily you used orange and not green or you'd have given zwitter a nervous breakdown :lol:
Looks great bb :icon_cheers:


----------



## zwitter

Hey Real Beer

Been there done that

Actually the outer sheath can be any colour you like. I have purple for elements orange for power and black for the pump but have to go find some heavier duty cable for the new controller and bigger rig.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

Finally set mine up to test run the heater and pump and validate the temperature reading.. 

Am I right in that the temp is only accurate to 0.5c? Running in manual and it jumps 0.5c steps so I'm guessing the resolution of the temperature is ±/— 0.5c?

Couldnt find any reference to it with a quick search on my phone


----------



## real_beer

zwitter said:


> Hey Real Beer
> 
> Been there done that


zwitter I hope I haven't upset you with my post it was just meant as a joke. I apologise if it has.


----------



## sluggerdog

I have a question, I think it's probably a PID setting but I'm not sure what they all mean exactly.

Everything is working well with my controller however it seems to be sitting on 1/2 degree short of each step. e.g. 62.5c for upto 10 mins while it slowly tries to get to 63c. 

Any idea what setting I could tweak to have the heat go a little longer when it flashes off and on?

I'm in 2.8.3

Thanks


----------



## lael

Slugger dog, what settings ate you currently using?


----------



## sluggerdog

lael said:


> Slugger dog, what settings ate you currently using?


ha, I had a feeling this would be the first question asked. I cannot remember off the top of my head, it's currently brewing in progress.

I think my settings were close to yours from the video, I used your video and a post I found by MaxN68 here as my initial guide. I have an external sensor.

I guess I cannot check these settings until I have finished today?


----------



## lael

Hmmm, yeah, unless you start the mash again. Depends on how far through you are. I noticed a similar problem once but caught it in the first stage and adjusted.

I haven't tested the settings in the video which is why I commented to test them on your own system 

I personally find it annoying to test and set them (and the changes to the way it runs from version to version so you have to check the settings each time), but once done, it works.


----------



## sluggerdog

lael said:


> Hmmm, yeah, unless you start the mash again. Depends on how far through you are. I noticed a similar problem once but caught it in the first stage and adjusted.
> 
> I haven't tested the settings in the video which is why I commented to test them on your own system
> 
> I personally find it annoying to test and set them (and the changes to the way it runs from version to version so you have to check the settings each time), but once done, it works.


I'll just wait and report back later this morning, I'm not that far from mash out.


----------



## matt211181

sluggerdog said:


> I have a question, I think it's probably a PID setting but I'm not sure what they all mean exactly.
> 
> Everything is working well with my controller however it seems to be sitting on 1/2 degree short of each step. e.g. 62.5c for upto 10 mins while it slowly tries to get to 63c.
> 
> Any idea what setting I could tweak to have the heat go a little longer when it flashes off and on?
> 
> I'm in 2.8.3
> 
> Thanks



Hi Sluggerdog - I had the same issue during my first mash, so I increased the integral term in the PID settings from 15 (as originally recommended in Lael's video - but as he said, the values will be dependent on your system) to 30 on my system. My increasing that value, I found it got to temps quicker. 

Oh and I also found I could do this mid-mash too. I held both black buttons together to get back to main menu, changed the PID settings, then went back to Auto mode and resumed from the same spot in the mash sequence.


----------



## lael

The other option is to reduce the derivative as well if you are stalling out close to temp values.


----------



## sluggerdog

lael said:


> Slugger dog, what settings ate you currently using?


*UPDATE:*

I've just finished, everything went well controller wise, I love it.

My Setup:
Crown Urn
Keg King Pump with top and bottom return
Brew Bag sitting ontop of a stainless tray with stainless legs (so the tray sits higher then the bottom return)

My Current PID Settings:
KP: 95
KI: 5
KD: 5
Sample Time: 3500
Window Set: 4000
HIB: 100% (External Sensor)

Unit Settings:
Temp Boil: 99c
Pump Cycle: 10
Pump Rest: 1


Now on to the bad news, I completed by brew, filled my cube and found I have a burnt element.


My Steps were as follows:
60c Mash In
63c for 50 mins
72c for 20 mins
78c for 10 mins - Mash Out

90 min boil

I brewed with this same recirculating setup about 3 weeks ago, manually checking the temperature on a simple 66c for 75 min and then 78c for 10 mins. No burnt issues there so I am wondering if it's to do with my controller settings somehow?

I deliberately started at 60c rather then chucking in a protein rest, this has caused others issues in the past with a crown urn and burning so I hoped by mashing in at 60c I would bypass this issue.

When planning my setup I figured that if the bottom return hit the bottom element of the crown it would help prevent burning as it was curculating the whole time the pump run (this is why I only have 1 min rest above)

I trailed 2 return options:

*Return A*






AND
*Return B*





Both splashed the bottom element however Return A seemed to do a better job so I ran with that one.


Does anyone have any ideas how I can get around this issue? Changing the crown for something else isn't really an option. Could it be as simple as removing the pump rest? Or also some of the other controller settings?

Thanks


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hi All,
I hope that your builds are traveling well. I have completed mine and current testing ATM . Everything seams to be running to order but I have an issue with the pump power outlet. It is always powered and I unable to switch it off. The pump switch is working correctly. In manual mode the green led comes on and off as the P in the LCD screen. I thinking I might be the onboard relay that might be the issue. As I want to connect this to my Grainfather and will be not using the second SSR. Is they a way of bypassing the onboard relay and using the SSR instead. Any thoughts will be gladly appreciated.


----------



## MastersBrewery

bigmacthepunker said:


> Hi All,
> I hope that your builds are traveling well. I have completed mine and current testing ATM . Everything seams to be running to order but I have an issue with the pump power outlet. It is always powered and I unable to switch it off. The pump switch is working correctly. In manual mode the green led comes on and off as the P in the LCD screen. I thinking I might be the onboard relay that might be the issue. As I won't to connect this to my Grainfather and will be not using the second SSR. Is they a way of bypassing the onboard relay and using the SSR instead. Any thoughts will be gladly appreciated.


Yes you can, how ever I can't remember the pin number for the pump, PM Lael he will know and I'm sure he will come up with the best and easiest solution for you.

MB


----------



## zwitter

Hi Big Mac....

Yes can use the second SSR for the pump. If the relay switches it is as easy as switching 12v with the relay and the output to the SSR. A little messy but does not require soldering etc. if you have a soldering iron you can remove the Relay from the board and use the coil end of the relay (as different to the switch end) and just take the two wires to the SŚR. You will need to keep positive and negative the right way round. 

If Lael gives me the latest circuit diagram and PCB overlay I can do pictures. Note that this is really for the big boys with the knowledge in electronics and the tools.

There is another way and that involves buying a small SSR from Jaycar or similar and using that for pump. Really the relay should be fine for the purpose though and not require changing. 

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

sluggerdog said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I've just finished, everything went well controller wise, I love it.
> .
> .
> .
> Does anyone have any ideas how I can get around this issue? Changing the crown for something else isn't really an option. Could it be as simple as removing the pump rest? Or also some of the other controller settings?
> 
> Thanks


no tips, but I also did an impromptu brew today to test out the controller (just in manual)
Did a Rye IPA, and tried recirculating just using my BIAB inside the crab pot cooker insert I normally use. Started out ok but then after a small adjustment to the recirc flow I ended up overflowing a bit (which is wierd considering the number of holes in the side of the cooker insert). Then after mashing out the bag was like a balloon and wouldnt drain. And then at the end of the boil I had some burnt crap on my Birko element.. I'm not sure how much was a result of recirculating and how much (im expecting most) was due to a Rye IPA with ~18% rye...

So, all in all, a pretty eventful and annoying brew day.. So in summary, you could have gone worse.


----------



## zwitter

Real beer & others

There is no need to apologise!

If you kill yourselves with this controller I will be upset!!!

If you slag me out or the like, that is up to you and while not encouraged or desired it is a free world. I am far from perfect and in no way normal. But it does not hurt me even a little bit.

I have had my share of mental issues along with about a third of all people in this country. PTSD, my sister's death when I was 5 and some other stuff. I live with OCD, AD and some other stuff the quacks have fancy names for but unless I tell you, you would never know. I live with them and control them without medication.

I have been in the RFS for 21 years and if the SH1T goes down I am the most together person you will ever meet. I have been to almost every big fire in that time. Give me firestorm etc any day. A crying woman though can bring me undone and leave me in pieces.

Give me a beer and You will do better than if you give me crap.

But give me crap if I deserve it and do not apologise.

Zwitter. ( surprised no one has commented on the name? No German speakers here? I chose it when registering a business name. Zwitter-ion an ion possessing properties of both positive and negative ions). Seemed to fit.

James zwitter
Sorry if that is too personal. Guess could delete that or move it somewhere?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Barge

I got it (being a chemistry teacher) but never thought to comment on it.

Nice post. Should be more of it.


----------



## Barge

SBOB said:


> no tips, but I also did an impromptu brew today to test out the controller (just in manual)
> Did a Rye IPA, and tried recirculating just using my BIAB inside the crab pot cooker insert I normally use. Started out ok but then after a small adjustment to the recirc flow I ended up overflowing a bit (which is wierd considering the number of holes in the side of the cooker insert). Then after mashing out the bag was like a balloon and wouldnt drain. And then at the end of the boil I had some burnt crap on my Birko element.. I'm not sure how much was a result of recirculating and how much (im expecting most) was due to a Rye IPA with ~18% rye...
> 
> So, all in all, a pretty eventful and annoying brew day.. So in summary, you could have gone worse.


Apart from being a **** up, how did it go in terms of clarifying the wort. I'm heading down the same path (already have the pot and bag) but I'm wondering once the pump arrives if I should just get a Big W pot as a malt pipe.

I like BIAB but the 3-4L lost to trub is a bit annoying.


----------



## MastersBrewery

for the guys with burning issues ( burnt wort on elements) you'll note most previous builders and the original braumeister used low watt density elements, you will probably also note that protein rests and urn elements do not play well either. When I Biab in my(now dented with broken sight glass) urn I always mash @ 65+ step to 72 then to 78, I still got some carramelising on the element. Rye won't help either

OT BTW I hate moving!


----------



## SBOB

MastersBrewery said:


> for the guys with burning issues ( burnt wort on elements) you'll note most previous builders and the original braumeister used low watt density elements, you will probably also note that protein rests and urn elements do not play well either. When I Biab in my(now dented with broken sight glass) urn I always mash @ 65+ step to 72 then to 78, I still got some carramelising on the element. Rye won't help either
> 
> OT BTW I hate moving!


Mine was a single mash in at 67 then mash out at 78... similar to what I normally did without the recirc. Im hoping todays issues were mostly due to rye but we will see.. Already have a big-w pot so plan was to modify that to remove the bag from the setup, but hopefully Lael will have some nice pot/malt-pipe combos available in the not to distant future for an upgrade 

do you think the recirc would add to any scorching issues?


----------



## SBOB

Barge said:


> Apart from being a **** up, how did it go in terms of clarifying the wort. I'm heading down the same path (already have the pot and bag) but I'm wondering once the pump arrives if I should just get a Big W pot as a malt pipe.
> 
> I like BIAB but the 3-4L lost to trub is a bit annoying.


to be honest I dont think it made any difference, but thats most likely due to me needing to mix and scrape the bag to get it to drain both when I had the overflow and on mashout/draining (plus squeezing)


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Thanks for the info MB and Zwitter. I did some more testing. Checking the heating pins for reference they are working fine, open and closing the circuit via the switch in manual mode.When I checked the pump pins it was an open circuit. Turning the pump switch on and off made no difference. 
I then disconnected the the pump connector at the shield and turn the unit on to check if there was a short circuit feeding power back to the outlet connector. There was no short circuit. Looks like its the relay.
Cheers Bigmac


----------



## bigmacthepunker




----------



## sluggerdog

SBOB said:


> Mine was a single mash in at 67 then mash out at 78... similar to what I normally did without the recirc. Im hoping todays issues were mostly due to rye but we will see.. Already have a big-w pot so plan was to modify that to remove the bag from the setup, but hopefully Lael will have some nice pot/malt-pipe combos available in the not to distant future for an upgrade
> 
> do you think the recirc would add to any scorching issues?


I have had my pump for the last 18 months, recirculating BIAB old school without any issues. My burning only started when I used the controller for the first time this weekend, plus a mash in at 60c, I have done many 63c then 78c in the past recirculating without burning issues. So I don't think it's the recirculating causing the scorching / burning.




sluggerdog said:


> My Current PID Settings:
> KP: 95
> KI: 5
> KD: 5
> Sample Time: 3500
> Window Set: 4000
> HIB: 100% (External Sensor)
> 
> Unit Settings:
> Temp Boil: 99c
> Pump Cycle: 10
> Pump Rest: 1


How do your settings on the controller look compared to mine (I'm wondering if some of the burning could be caused by pump rest / cycle options in combination with the PID settings? Maybe us urn users need to have some specific setting try and work around the limitations of the high watt elements in the urns.

Thanks


----------



## lael

bigmac - PM'd you. 

sluggerdog - I know qldkev put an outlet at the bottom of his 1v recirc rig to make sure there was adequate movement around his elements. It seems like running top-bottom produces a slower flow which may not move the wort around enough. I would recommend looking at his build and working out something similar and see how it goes.


----------



## sluggerdog

lael said:


> sluggerdog - I know qldkev put an outlet at the bottom of his 1v recirc rig to make sure there was adequate movement around his elements. It seems like running top-bottom produces a slower flow which may not move the wort around enough. I would recommend looking at his build and working out something similar and see how it goes.


 Thanks Lael,

I actually copied qldkev's setup, his diagram is as below (stolen from his build thread). this is how mine is also setup (except my element being the crown urn element). I used this setup without the controller and I didn't get burning, adding the controller in I got burning, this is why I am suspecting it's a controller setting. PID or Pump settings I mentioned a few posts back that may be the cause. Something I need to change to suit my setup. I also have that issue of the PID not getting to temp for upto 10 mins (e.g. 62.5 trying to get to 63c) which may also be contributing to the burning possibly.

I have my PID I setting on 5 at the moment, I guess I could try this at 15 instead and see how it goes?

You also mentioned the D setting which I have 5, maybe that should change?

Cheers

qldkev's diagram


----------



## zwitter

Bigmac
Does your relay "click"? ie in manual mode when you turn pump on and off does the relay click on and off? I assume the green LED turns on and off?

I looked at your photo but a bit hard to see much with the lighting in the base a bit poor.

james
zwitter


----------



## bigmacthepunker

zwitter said:


> Bigmac
> Does your relay "click"? ie in manual mode when you turn pump on and off does the relay click on and off? I assume the green LED turns on and off?
> 
> I looked at your photo but a bit hard to see much with the lighting in the base a bit poor.
> 
> james
> zwitter


I don't remember the relay clicking. I'll check that when I get home tonight and advise.
Cheers
Bigmac


----------



## SBOB

sluggerdog said:


> How do your settings on the controller look compared to mine (I'm wondering if some of the burning could be caused by pump rest / cycle options in combination with the PID settings? Maybe us urn users need to have some specific setting try and work around the limitations of the high watt elements in the urns.
> 
> Thanks


I was running mine in manual so only the heater PID settings were being used and i think there were pretty similar (the ones lael gave as some example defaults as I havent bothered 'thinking' about what the might be better tuned to yet)


----------



## breakbeer

Has anyone used an immersion element with one of these controllers? 

Thinking about using one as my 2nd element, which I only need during the boil. Reason being that I can also use it to heat up sparge water during the mash


----------



## OneEye

SBOB said:


> Finally set mine up to test run the heater and pump and validate the temperature reading..
> 
> Am I right in that the temp is only accurate to 0.5c? Running in manual and it jumps 0.5c steps so I'm guessing the resolution of the temperature is ±/— 0.5c?
> 
> Couldnt find any reference to it with a quick search on my phone


Is this right?


----------



## breakbeer

I don't know for certain, but I'd be surprised if it was only accurate to within .5 of a degree. I have one of the first Brauduino controllers & it's accurate to within .25 of a degree.


----------



## SBOB

The current code appears to only read the value assuming a 9-bit value (0.5c resolution) as opposed to 12-bit which the DS18B20 supports (0.0625c resolution)..
Being bored, im currently looking to see how easy it is to modify this 


--- Ran out of enthusiasm so 0.5c will do for now


----------



## RobB

Has anyone in Perth had any luck finding the male Neutrik connectors? Jaycar doesn't have them on their website and Altronics are out of stock until late December.


----------



## The Judge

Soz man, no idea. Have you tried a music store? Aren't they also microphone connectors?


----------



## Mardoo

breakbeer said:


> I don't know for certain, but I'd be surprised if it was only accurate to within .5 of a degree. I have one of the first Brauduino controllers & it's accurate to within .25 of a degree.


Here's a crosslink of a good little discussion about temperature resolution in ArdBir, just to make sure all get a chance to see it.


----------



## lael

All the time. I didn't want to change the plug on the OTS element, so my aux heat goes from the heater to an extension cord with a female socket on the end. Just one of the cheap 3m $3 ones from bunnings. 



breakbeer said:


> Has anyone used an immersion element with one of these controllers?
> 
> Thinking about using one as my 2nd element, which I only need during the boil. Reason being that I can also use it to heat up sparge water during the mash


----------



## lael

Just be aware that the Neutriks are not as good. They have an open back rather than a fully sealed back and from memory are rated to 15A. I'm happy to supply spares if anyone wants them - just PM me. 



Malty Cultural said:


> Has anyone in Perth had any luck finding the male Neutrik connectors? Jaycar doesn't have them on their website and Altronics are out of stock until late December.


----------



## MastersBrewery

breakbeer said:


> Has anyone used an immersion element with one of these controllers?
> 
> Thinking about using one as my 2nd element, which I only need during the boil. Reason being that I can also use it to heat up sparge water during the mash


yes Lael, as a second element.


----------



## zwitter

A few comments

Immersion heaters are exactly what the second element circuit is designed for. I have had some issues getting 40 litres to boil vigorously and have. A 2400w immersion heater and it gets it going. Be aware that immersion elements are high density heat elements and you may experience some burning around the element so keep an eye out.

As far as using "extension cords" in the special plugs we used in the controller. Most extension cords are rated for 10amps and that is on a good day with the cord unraveled and in clear air etc. they will not be 2.5mm copper. If you choose to use an extension cable then at least go for a quality 15a one and keep the length to a minimum. No matter how good quality the cable is if you draw a big current the cable will have voltage drop and will get hot.

I would probably suggest buying extras from ebay or Lael.

Anyone with serious issues with their controllers like relay not switching or display scrambling or other weirdness, PM me or Lael and we can sort out some repairs or replacements. 

I will stress that you must run through the setup and enter values etc or it will not work correctly.

I am interested to hear what PID settings you are using. Would need to know the settings you use plus pot volume, element wattage, temp sensor position etc

I had the same issue with getting close but never actually hitting the temp and spent hours getting it to work with a live wort, still drinking the beer though.

James
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## lael

An update on the 0.5 resolution on the temp probe. I'll post a video showing how to change it to .25 resolution tonight.


----------



## breakbeer

Thanks zwitter, 

I've ordered a 2400W OTS element & I already have a cable made up for it. It's rated to 20amp and is quite short, one end is female 3 pin & the other is the connector that came with the kit


----------



## lespaul

Is the board rated to 250v. The sparky is worried about the power is going straight to the board.
Edit: he can see the relay is rated to 250v but he just wants to double check the board is?


----------



## real_beer

lespaul said:


> Is the board rated to 250v. The sparky is worried about the power is going straight to the board.
> Edit: he can see the relay is rated to 250v but he just wants to double check the board is?


Hi les,

I don't think zwitter would have got involved if it wasn't safe. There are a few other electricians on the forum as well who would probably have jump on the line quickly if they thought it was unsafe. Having said that it pays to be safe. :icon_cheers:


----------



## lespaul

Yeh. I personally had no idea. I assumed but I thought I'd ask anyway.
As a side note the electrician wasn't happy with the jaycar crimps, said they were a poor fit and no insulation over crimp. He didn't like that all the earth points weren't together (each input had its own separate earth circuit). He preferred the flex cable to the twin and earth. And I used red speaker cable for the DC and he said to use grey or something. So overall a little pedantic but at least he's taking it seriously. 
Rewired it all today, see what he says.


----------



## sluggerdog

sluggerdog said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> I've just finished, everything went well controller wise, I love it.
> 
> My Setup:
> Crown Urn
> Keg King Pump with top and bottom return
> Brew Bag sitting ontop of a stainless tray with stainless legs (so the tray sits higher then the bottom return)
> 
> My Current PID Settings:
> KP: 95
> KI: 5
> KD: 5
> Sample Time: 3500
> Window Set: 4000


I'm wondering what other people are setting their PID too? Still trying to work out what they mean and how to best tune it for my system.

After my above settings were causing slow ramp up times when the temperature was 1 or 2 degrees off I performed a sample brew thismorning (water only, no grain) with the following:


KP: 100
KI: 30
KD: 3
Sample Time: 3500
Window Set: 7500

This was better but it seemed to slightly overshoot the temperature while it was holding at each mash level. e.g. it would get to 63.5 (temp was programmed for 63.0) and still the heat would briefly flick off and on even though the temp was over. it didn't seem to get any higher but it did hold at 63.5 longer then it should have.

Thanks


----------



## breakbeer

Decided to go without the face plate, gives it an industrial look


----------



## lael

sluggerdog said:


> I'm wondering what other people are setting their PID too? Still trying to work out what they mean and how to best tune it for my system.
> 
> After my above settings were causing slow ramp up times when the temperature was 1 or 2 degrees off I performed a sample brew thismorning (water only, no grain) with the following:
> 
> KP: 100
> KI: 30
> KD: 3
> Sample Time: 3500
> Window Set: 7500
> 
> This was better but it seemed to slightly overshoot the temperature while it was holding at each mash level. e.g. it would get to 63.5 (temp was programmed for 63.0) and still the heat would briefly flick off and on even though the temp was over. it didn't seem to get any higher but it did hold at 63.5 longer then it should have.
> 
> Thanks


Personally I would be happier with that. 0.5 over in a mash step is not really going to have that much of an impact compared to sitting at 10mins under target. You could increase the sample time or KD would be my next experiment - prob KD to 4 first and sampletime to 4500.


----------



## breakbeer

Looks like I have a couple of issues with my controller 

1. When I plugged in the front panel via usb I tried it in manual mode. When I press the red button I get the little H symbol on the screen but the light doesn't come on

2. When the unit was fully assembled I plugged it into mains power & the screen is completely blank but the pump light flashes

The sparky who checked it for me said the wiring seemed fine but he wasn't overly confident with guaranteeing its functionality as he hasn't really worked on these type things. I showed him the wiring diagram that I followed (the one masters brewer posted) & he said it was wired correctly 

This has got me stumped & a bit annoyed as I really NEED to brew next weekend


----------



## marc280

For point one, have you checked that it is not in 'gas' mode? There have been a few posts about this and changing that might fix your problem. 

Check Lael's YouTube Clips and there is a word doc in here as well that goes through the setup. 

Not sure about the second part.


----------



## breakbeer

I haven't updated the software in it so it's got the version that it came with (2.6.70), on this version it doesn't seem to give me the option to change from gas to electric. 

I'm now trying to download the new version but in all honesty the instructions are going a little over my head, mainly the part about the library folders


----------



## lael

Hi breakbeer, 
The libraries just need to be downloaded from the link and copied into the libraries folder in program files(x86)>>arduino. Just pause the video as it goes and do one step at a time. 

For the heat - check that the set point is above the measured temp and that the heat led is fully pushed on. 

You also need to fully set up the software - pid settings and unit settings before running any tests. 

I did have an issue when testing boards yesterday - on 2.8.3 it seemed that the heat wouldn't turn on in manual mode when using Fahrenheit. In Celsius it was fine. No idea why.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hi Breakbeer,
I found that I had to adjust the screen brightness the first time for changing from 5v to 12v. Just need a small screwdriver and turn the blue pot. See Lael video, as it shows how to do it in that.
Cheers
Bigmac


----------



## breakbeer

Hi Lael,

Can you please post the link to the files I need to put in the library?

I think i need to update the software before I proceed any further 

I updated the PID settings as per your instructions before I had any of these issues & the blank screen is definitely not the pot as I adjusted it several times to make sure


----------



## SBOB

breakbeer said:


> Hi Lael,
> 
> Can you please post the link to the files I need to put in the library?


They are in the links under the youtube video demo'ing how to upgrade


Links: 
Arduino Software: 
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/Software 

Arduino Libraries: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v290helbdkm...

ArdBir Dropbox Link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50...


----------



## zwitter

Breakbeer

A word of warning.
If it does not work with "old" software new software is just asking for trouble. You will not be able to see if it has loaded properly, will be unable to do setup etc

Get it working before you even attempt the upgrade. The software as shipped is perfectly functional.

The setup must be run even with the software as it was shipped. This takes time and is responsibility of the builder of the system as they will all be different.

I am happy to look at your unit but would need to either send to me or bring it over if you are in Sydney. I am near north Parramatta.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## breakbeer

I have read every single post in this thread, several times. I know I had to run the setup as per the video, which I did

In the software that came with the controller there is no option to change from Gas to Electric

Here is a pic of the front panel which is connected via USB, as you can see there is a H symbol on the screen but no light, this might just be a faulty led 




That only covers my first issue though, obviously I've done something wrong when wiring it up & I have no idea what that is? A sparky said it was safe to plug in but couldn't say whether or not it would work, which doesn't fill me with confidence in his qualifications.


----------



## lael

Oh, it could be simple. Has the led ever turned on? You might have it the wrong way around. The tabs on the led header should be facing the LCD.


----------



## marc280

For the gas option, gas mode is under the PID menu as shown in the attached pics. Hopefully that helps... 

I couldn't work out why my heating led wasn't turning on for a while and this fixed it.


----------



## breakbeer

Thanks mate, but mine isn't giving me that option. When I hit the green button for Setup the first option is P.I.D Parameters, I press the green button again and it goes straight to Konstant P




I've checked every single option in Setup mode & there is absolutely no mention of Gas or Electric


----------



## breakbeer

lael said:


> Oh, it could be simple. Has the led ever turned on? You might have it the wrong way around. The tabs on the led header should be facing the LCD.


Success! Even though it took me a couple of tries. I turned it around & it still didn't light up, unplugged it & tried again & she now lights up like a Christmas tree. 

Feeling a bit stupid but also relieved


----------



## bigmacthepunker

I could be wrong, but think the the gas & electric is only on the newest software.


----------



## marc280

So I've finished wiring it all up and everything is working fine except for the pump control. 

I've checked and checked the wiring and it all seems ok. I've checked that the relay is working with nothing connected to it. I.e. it goes open circuit and closes with nothing attached to it. There is also only 240v on one of the wires when not connected to the relay. As soon as I connect the plug to the board I get 240v on the pump outlet all the time. 

You can hear the relay clicking when pressing the pump button. 

It's got me a bit stumped! 

Any ideas?


----------



## zwitter

Hi marc280

I have one thing to check. You are switching active?

I once had a circuit using IEC sockets where male and female effective ly have active and neutral on opposite sides for a plug and a socket and a late night of wiring and had one socket, for the pump backwards and pump would not switch off! 20 seconds later it was solved.

The photo is a bit hard to follow but can not see any obvious problems.

I would suggest if you have the gear to do this. Is to measure with no power connected anywhere. Measure the active pin of the power plug to one side of the relay plug and the other side to the active of the pump output. Then plug the relay plug in to the board and measure from active of power plug to the pump socket.

The first two measurements should be connected but the third should not be connected when the unit is off and not plugged. In. Then you could use a paper clip to short the two pins of the relay plug and see the connection from power plug through to the pump socket. 
Note all these tests are with no power connected.

James
Zwitter




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Breakbeer

When powering the mega on USB there is no 12v so the relay will not click, lcd may not work etc the shield board uses the 12v to power the interfaces to the SSRs, relay etc.

The old arduinos had a DC socket on them but still depened on how the shield was designed as to whether the extra bits will function or not as the power circuit is low amperage and not designed for big loads.

Usb is designed to make programming easy not to power whole device.
James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## lael

Great work! Nice to hear it was simple 



breakbeer said:


> Success! Even though it took me a couple of tries. I turned it around & it still didn't light up, unplugged it & tried again & she now lights up like a Christmas tree.
> 
> Feeling a bit stupid but also relieved


----------



## bigmacthepunker

marc280 said:


> So I've finished wiring it all up and everything is working fine except for the pump control.
> 
> I've checked and checked the wiring and it all seems ok. I've checked that the relay is working with nothing connected to it. I.e. it goes open circuit and closes with nothing attached to it. There is also only 240v on one of the wires when not connected to the relay. As soon as I connect the plug to the board I get 240v on the pump outlet all the time.
> 
> You can hear the relay clicking when pressing the pump button.
> 
> It's got me a bit stumped!
> 
> Any ideas?


Hi marc280,
What is the voltage output of the power supply. I had the same problem because I had a 5v power supply not the recommended 12v. It' s not enough power for the relay to work correctly.
Pm Lael if this is the issue.
Cheers
Bigmac


----------



## lael

bigmacthepunker said:


> Hi marc280,
> What is the voltage output of the power supply. I had the same problem because I had a 5v power supply not the recommended 12v. It' s not enough power for the relay to work correctly.
> Pm Lael if this is the issue.
> Cheers
> Bigmac


Yep - bigmac came around this evening. Sorted it out, but took some time to realise that I'd shipped the kit with the wrong power supply (very unexpected). There may be a couple out there, so it is worth checking. 

I was scraping around for more 12v power supplies and obviously grabbed a couple of my 5v ones from my arduino stuff without realising it.


----------



## marc280

So I just checked the power supply and that is a 12v one so all good there. 

James, I checked all the connections like you suggested and they all check out ok. 

I even meggar tested the relay itself to see if it would play up when volts are out on and it checked out ok. 

Seems weird, with the pump plug disconnected and the unit powered up you get the relay to toggle as it should and only 240v on one side of the plug. With the pump plug plugged into the board you then get 240v on both sides of the plug even with the relay toggling on and off...


----------



## MitchD

Sounds like you are missing a neutral. Try using a multi meter on ohms and checking from the incoming neutral terminal to all neutral points. Then check neutral to active.


----------



## marc280

I've checked between the incoming neutral and all neutral points. I get about 0.2 ohms. Between active and neutral I get no reading, but I would have thought I should at least get a reading across the power supply so that might be something to look at. 

I bought two kits so I got the second board out and I'm getting the same results. So chances are there must be something wrong with the wiring.


----------



## gap

I am getting this message when trying to verify the new version of ArdBir

Arduino: 1.6.6 (Windows 7), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Mega or Mega 2560, ATmega2560 (Mega 2560)"

WARNING: Category '' in library OneWire is not valid. Setting to 'Uncategorized'
open NUL: The system cannot find the file specified.
Error compiling.

I have OneWire in the Audino library 

Any clues as to my problem , could somebody verify where I should be finding this library.


----------



## SBOB

gap said:


> I am getting this message when trying to verify the new version of ArdBir
> 
> Arduino: 1.6.6 (Windows 7), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Mega or Mega 2560, ATmega2560 (Mega 2560)"
> 
> WARNING: Category '' in library OneWire is not valid. Setting to 'Uncategorized'
> open NUL: The system cannot find the file specified.
> Error compiling.
> 
> I have OneWire in the Audino library
> 
> Any clues as to my problem , could somebody verify where I should be finding this library.


libraries are here
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v290helbdkm7tkm/Brauduino_Libraries.zip?dl=0


----------



## gap

I am still getting the same error message.

I copied the libraries into Program Files/Arduino/Libraries.

Is that correct?


----------



## lael

Hi gap, 

that's right - just delete the old folders that are there (JUST the ones you are replacing - eg: OneWire, PIDv1) and then copy and paste them in. Windows should ask you to for admin, hit ok, and you should be good to go.


----------



## SBOB

also make sure you close the arduino software and re-open it... i found it only validated/sanity-checked libraries on startup (at least on mac)


----------



## marc280

I had a bit more of a look at the issues I'm having with the pump circuit, and I found something interesting with the relay. I don't have the pump setup on my rig yet so I've only been measuring the voltage output to the pump. However, I connected a 700W drill up to the pump output to test what would happen when I put load on it. When doing this the drill runs fine with the pump on, so tick there. With the pump supply off the drill doesn't have enough power to start but you can hear it trying to start up. 

So it seems there is some leakage current getting through the relay when it is switched off. 

Not sure how this is going to go with the pump seeing as it should only have a small current draw. 

Anyone else found something similar?


----------



## zwitter

Hi marc280
There is a snubber circuit across the relay and that will allow a small leakage but should not cause an issue. 

It would have been preferable to put snubber on the pump and tune for the load of the specific pump. We chose the values based on standard pumps like chugger, march 809 etc. also the snubber allows use of DC 12 volt LBP etc

Try it with the pump and it should be fine.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## bigmacthepunker

marc280 said:


> I had a bit more of a look at the issues I'm having with the pump circuit, and I found something interesting with the relay. I don't have the pump setup on my rig yet so I've only been measuring the voltage output to the pump. However, I connected a 700W drill up to the pump output to test what would happen when I put load on it. When doing this the drill runs fine with the pump on, so tick there. With the pump supply off the drill doesn't have enough power to start but you can hear it trying to start up.
> 
> So it seems there is some leakage current getting through the relay when it is switched off.
> 
> Not sure how this is going to go with the pump seeing as it should only have a small current draw.
> 
> Anyone else found something similar?


Hi Marc280.
I just tested my controller with a multimeter. Both the outlet sockets measure approx 250 v in manual mode with no load. The pump socket powers a STC1000 and can't be switched on or off. The snubber circuit explains that. The heater outlet socket switches the STC off and on the the button is pressed. The heater socket measures 248v in the off position and 251v in the on position with no load. Hopefully I can test it on my Grainfather tonight. Hopefully this reassures. 
Cheers
Bigmac


----------



## zwitter

Hi bigmacthepunker

SSRs need a load. They are not switches. This is normal. Some have snubber circuits built in and others components to bias the triac or SCRs that do the switching. Thes switch 40 amps a couple of mA leakage is fine. You should never touch the outputs when the controller is plugged in.

The snubber is a resistor and a capacitor across the switch part of the relay to quench the spark as the contacts open and close as the spark damages the contacts.

I have never seen a pump with electronic speed control like a drill so do not think this is an issue. 

If used as per the design it should be fine.

James zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Thanks Zwitter, 
I'm in the backyard now testing the Brauduino on the Grainfather now. I'm super happy. Hopefully I can put it through it paces with a real brew over the weekend.


----------



## SBOB

that green LED... it blinds, it blinds


----------



## bigmacthepunker

The Brauduino on it way to producing my first brew in my Brainfather. 31 mins to boil finishes. A few more PID adjustments needed as it is currently struggling to get to the boil stage by 0.5 of a deg. I patched a direct lead to the element to jump it into boil stage then connect back 3 mins later. This is the first time using the Grainfather as well. So everything is new. All looking good so far.


----------



## lael

Looks fantastic! What settings did you use?



bigmacthepunker said:


> The Brauduino on it way to producing my first brew in my Brainfather. 31 mins to boil finishes. A few more PID adjustments needed as it is currently struggling to get to the boil stage by 0.5 of a deg. I patched a direct lead to the element to jump it into boil stage then connect back 3 mins later. This is the first time using the Grainfather as well. So everything is new. All looking good so far. ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1449310881.938325.jpg


----------



## bigmacthepunker

lael said:


> Looks fantastic! What settings did you use?


P= 100
I = 25
D= 0
3500
7500
100%
+ 2.5 deg
From Biab to GF 60- 70 % EF to GF 84% EF.
Thanks Lael for making it so easy to build.
Regards Bigmac

PS: Having controller details on a phone would be might handy, but it wouldn't be brewing. I did miss my pulley for a bag. Another step to better beer.


----------



## tommy160

Greetings from Denmark
I Can not wait to the package arrives.
hi i want to share my ideas.I have built my system with a heater from the stove see photo. 230V / 2000W 180 MM
I have a 10 mm thick aluminum plate in the pan and heater to distribute the heat.
Heater can raise a degree per min, with 25 liters of water in the pan. and is easy to clean than a tubular heating element.
and many thanks to lael. and all those who have contributed 
http://www.nettoparts.dk/shop/komfurer-ovne-kogeplade-16c1.html
tommy160


----------



## real_beer

tommy160 said:


> Greetings from Denmark


Hi tommy160,

Fantastic idea and it looks really neat. I really enjoy seeing how people think outside the box and come up with new ways of doing the same thing. 

Your score is 6 stars out of 5 :beer:
Your going to really enjoy using the controller over the long winter months ahead in Denmark. When the green led turns on it's bright enough to light your whole brew house by itself :lol:


----------



## bigmacthepunker

The green light.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Anybody made a controller stand yet. I'm thinking of ideas now, as it is hard to read with flat.


----------



## breakbeer

I have something similar to this:




Clamps on to my brew stand & can be tilted or adjusted to any angle


----------



## ken_gilchrist

bigmacthepunker said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1449361460.222349.jpg
> The green light.


Hi bigmacthepunker,
Am I correct in assuming that you have hooked up your Mathos to the grainfather? This is exactly what I was going to do (when I buy my grainfather). I would love to get a bit of a "how to" on what you did to complete the conversion.

The other alternative I have considered is the Robobrew by Keg King. Either way I think the proccess will be the same.

TIA


----------



## tommy160

hello again a few new photo of building installations.


----------



## lael

tommy160 said:


> hello again a few new photo of building installations.


Looks nice Tommy! Is that a standard electric plate or an induction plate? I've been wondering about the effectiveness of induction elements for these systems....


----------



## lael

bigmacthepunker said:


> P= 100
> I = 25
> D= 0
> 3500
> 7500
> 100%
> + 2.5 deg
> From Biab to GF 60- 70 % EF to GF 84% EF.
> Thanks Lael for making it so easy to build.
> Regards Bigmac
> 
> PS: Having controller details on a phone would be might handy, but it wouldn't be brewing. I did miss my pulley for a bag. Another step to better beer.


Nice work! Glad you found it easy 

I've played with the PID settings a little and am currently using:
P= 100
I = 20
D= 3
3500
4500

It works really well. I might try dropping D down to 2. I would rather have a mild overshoot (0.5) and faster mash time, than a slower mash.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

ken_gilchrist said:


> Hi bigmacthepunker,
> Am I correct in assuming that you have hooked up your Mathos to the grainfather? This is exactly what I was going to do (when I buy my grainfather). I would love to get a bit of a "how to" on what you did to complete the conversion.
> 
> The other alternative I have considered is the Robobrew by Keg King. Either way I think the proccess will be the same.
> 
> TIA


Hi Ken,
All I did was to purchase the correct plugs to fit the GF pump and heater inlet sockets. you can get the plugs from Jaycar $ 6.00 each. That's all you need to do. I like the GF over the Robo, just my opinion.
Cheers


----------



## freelander2002

tommy160 said:


> Greetings from Denmark
> I Can not wait to the package arrives.
> hi i want to share my ideas.I have built my system with a heater from the stove see photo. 230V / 2000W 180 MM
> I have a 10 mm thick aluminum plate in the pan and heater to distribute the heat.
> Heater can raise a degree per min, with 25 liters of water in the pan. and is easy to clean than a tubular heating element.
> and many thanks to lael. and all those who have contributed
> http://www.nettoparts.dk/shop/komfurer-ovne-kogeplade-16c1.html
> tommy160


Skide godt "Egon" !!! Do you use the pot from Storagrytor.se ? Marvelous idea


----------



## tommy160

lael said:


> Looks nice Tommy! Is that a standard electric plate or an induction plate? I've been wondering about the effectiveness of induction elements for these systems....


hi its a standard Electric plate.


----------



## tommy160

freelander2002 said:


> Skide godt "Egon" !!! Do you use the pot from Storagrytor.se ? Marvelous idea


The pot its from bergland24.de i plaid 89 euro. its a thermoport with lit 45x45cm ss 50L


----------



## zwitter

Hi Tommy 160

Nice use of the element!
What is the energy density like as far as burning the mash where the plate is?
How well does the aluminium base spread the heat?
Do you use any kind of thermal compound either paste or sheet between the element and the pot?

James zwitter

I love the variations people come up with to solve the same problem.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## tommy160

hi Zwitter malt burnes only slightly on the one side of the pot when the bottom is very thin about 1-0,5mm it's hard to get aluminum plate level up to the bottom. and I have not been using thermpasta.
I think that the paste will help. 
We goner brew beer on Saturday 12/12 when we are finished I will take a few pictures of the pan base.


----------



## marksy

Anyone got any tips on twisting the wires together and getting them into the crimps? (2.5mm2 cable) Just starting to wire mine now. Not having much luck with the twist.


----------



## gap

I get this error message when I try to verify the new ArdBir version

Any clues please?

Arduino: 1.6.6 (Windows 7), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Mega or Mega 2560, ATmega2560 (Mega 2560)"

C:\Program Files\Arduino\arduino-builder -dump-prefs -logger=machine -hardware "C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware" -tools "C:\Program Files\Arduino\tools-builder" -tools "C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr" -built-in-libraries "C:\Program Files\Arduino\libraries" -libraries "C:\gparker\My Documents\home\Brewing\Controller Software\2.8\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8\libraries" -fqbn=arduino:avr:mega:cpu=atmega2560 -vid-pid=0X2341_0X0042 -ide-version=10606 -build-path "C:\Users\gparker\AppData\Local\Temp\build5732cc9fe57b74ebc3fec6365e4ea3fe.tmp" -warnings=none -prefs=build.warn_data_percentage=75 -verbose "C:\gparker\My Documents\home\Brewing\Controller Software\2.8\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.ino"
C:\Program Files\Arduino\arduino-builder -compile -logger=machine -hardware "C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware" -tools "C:\Program Files\Arduino\tools-builder" -tools "C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr" -built-in-libraries "C:\Program Files\Arduino\libraries" -libraries "C:\gparker\My Documents\home\Brewing\Controller Software\2.8\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8\libraries" -fqbn=arduino:avr:mega:cpu=atmega2560 -vid-pid=0X2341_0X0042 -ide-version=10606 -build-path "C:\Users\gparker\AppData\Local\Temp\build5732cc9fe57b74ebc3fec6365e4ea3fe.tmp" -warnings=none -prefs=build.warn_data_percentage=75 -verbose "C:\gparker\My Documents\home\Brewing\Controller Software\2.8\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.ino"
"C:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\tools\avr/bin/avr-g++" -c -g -Os -w -std=gnu++11 -fno-exceptions -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -fno-threadsafe-statics -w -x c++ -M -MG -MP -mmcu=atmega2560 -DF_CPU=16000000L -DARDUINO=10606 -DARDUINO_AVR_MEGA2560 -DARDUINO_ARCH_AVR "-IC:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\arduino\avr\cores\arduino" "-IC:\Program Files\Arduino\hardware\arduino\avr\variants\mega" "C:\Users\gparker\AppData\Local\Temp\build5732cc9fe57b74ebc3fec6365e4ea3fe.tmp\sketch\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.ino.cpp"
open NUL: The system cannot find the file specified.
Error compiling.


----------



## SBOB

gap said:


> I get this error message when I try to verify the new ArdBir version
> 
> Any clues please?
> 
> Arduino: 1.6.6 (Windows 7), Board: "Arduino/Genuino Mega or Mega 2560, ATmega2560 (Mega 2560)"
> .
> .
> ."C:\Users\gparker\AppData\Local\Temp\build5732cc9fe57b74ebc3fec6365e4ea3fe.tmp\sketch\ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.ino.cpp"
> open NUL: The system cannot find the file specified.
> Error compiling.


Where have you extracted the files within the 'ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.rar' file? Seems thats saying they are in some temp location?
Also, not sure why its looking for a cpp file with that name as there isnt one in the project with that file name (there is a Ardbir_2_8_3RC8.ino, but not a .ino.cpp)

I would try starting again by
- extracting the rar file to a dedicated folder on either your desktop or even better a folder in the root of C drive and
- open the Ardbir_2_8_3RC8.ino file from this folder
- re configure the params for board type, screen size and language within the Ardbir_2_8_3RC8 file
_#define PCBType 1_
_#define LCDType 20_
_#define LCDLanguage 1_
- Verify the project (tick symbol top right) to see if you get any errors

Should be as straight forward as that, then upload it to the device after verifying the correct port selection from Tools->Ports


----------



## zwitter

Hi marksy
Big pliers.
Cut the wires long and then strip ends long then twist all together using pliers then cut to length. Sometimes after cutting may need a little twist to get all tight.
Then jam them in and crimp. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

For anyone interested 
I am planning to show how to swap pump relay for a small SSR.
Am going to use SY4080 from Jaycar but any can be used. As the relay is 12volt coil you will need an SSR that takes 12volt input to switch. The one I have chosen is a wide input range. Note also that there are DC versions that do not switch 240vac. So check the specs.

The one suggested is very straight forward to fit and switches up to 3A so all good for chugger, march etc but no good for DC pumps like LBP.

Will post with pics in a day or so.

Note this is really not required. If and only if you get LCD scrambling often would I suggest this be done. It also requires soldering and some electronics skill and practices.

Zwitter

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## gap

SBOB said:


> Where have you extracted the files within the 'ArdBir_2_8_3RC8.rar' file? Seems thats saying they are in some temp location?
> Also, not sure why its looking for a cpp file with that name as there isnt one in the project with that file name (there is a Ardbir_2_8_3RC8.ino, but not a .ino.cpp)
> I would try starting again by
> - extracting the rar file to a dedicated folder on either your desktop or even better a folder in the root of C drive and
> - open the Ardbir_2_8_3RC8.ino file from this folder
> - re configure the params for board type, screen size and language within the Ardbir_2_8_3RC8 file
> _#define PCBType 1_
> _#define LCDType 20_
> _#define LCDLanguage 1_
> - Verify the project (tick symbol top right) to see if you get any errors
> 
> Should be as straight forward as that, then upload it to the device after verifying the correct port selection from Tools->Ports


I had to download everything onto another PC and the upload worked first time.

Thanks for your help.


----------



## real_beer

marksy said:


> Anyone got any tips on twisting the wires together and getting them into the crimps? (2.5mm2 cable) Just starting to wire mine now. Not having much luck with the twist.


I'm wiring my box up differently than others using these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111809213788?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm not wiring mine up until the Christmas holidays so I can't say anymore atm though.


----------



## espreso

real_beer said:


> I'm wiring my box up differently than others using these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111809213788?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> I'm not wiring mine up until the Christmas holidays so I can't say anymore atm though.


Nice... those look easier than mine http://www.rapidonline.com/cables-connectors/helacon-wire-connectors-178109
These a B1tch :unsure: to remove once they're in but make the connections a 2 second job


----------



## breakbeer

Where exactly inside the box will you be using terminal blocks? I can't think of anywhere they'd be useful or even possible to use.

All connections either use a spade connector or ring/fork shaped connector


----------



## SBOB

breakbeer said:


> Where exactly inside the box will you be using terminal blocks? I can't think of anywhere they'd be useful or even possible to use.
> 
> All connections either use a spade connector or ring/fork shaped connector


I imagine the plan is to use wires from the terminal blocks to single spade/ring connectors, instead of needing to daisy chain with multiple wires in each connector.


----------



## real_beer

SBOB said:


> I imagine the plan is to use wires from the terminal blocks to single spade/ring connectors, instead of needing to daisy chain with multiple wires in each connector.


Hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Mardoo

I like that idea a whooooooole lot. Electricians or others, any reason not to?


----------



## SBOB

Mardoo said:


> I like that idea a whooooooole lot. Electricians or others, any reason not to?


only downside would be an increased number/length of AC cables in the box, but if you route them neatly and away from the DC/board there shouldnt be any increase in interference issues
It doesn't really have any electrical benefit and does cost more, but may be easier for some to wire (though it wont work for all cables, but could be handy for at least the earth connection as it branches to ~6 points, and possibly the main power active as it branches to ~4 points)


----------



## zwitter

Hi real beer

I would not use those in high current connections. They are usually for low current applications. Not saying no but make sure the connections are up to the job. Really the element connections should be short and well connected. 

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## espreso

zwitter said:


> Hi real beer
> 
> I would not use those in high current connections. They are usually for low current applications. Not saying no but make sure the connections are up to the job. Really the element connections should be short and well connected.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


I hear you... mine are rated at 450v 24A. I'm running a 2kw element so well within my limits.


----------



## gap

I finally have lift off with my controller.

Thanks again to everybody for their help na especially to Lael for putting this kit project together.
The project is a great test of patience.

Regards

Graeme


----------



## tommy160

Hi Zwitter 
update. from Saturday brewing after 1.5 hour boil whats no burned malt in bottom of pan. so it's a super resutat.


----------



## lael

Tommy, that looks great! How does your wort return work? Is that a BM 20L malt pipe?


----------



## SBOB

lael said:


> Tommy, that looks great! How does your wort return work? Is that a BM 20L malt pipe?


What lael said... possibly a build thread or post for inspiration for others


----------



## tommy160

pump pulls water up through the center of the pan. 
yes it's BM 20 malt pipe.I bought it with the filter plates and grid plates. 
link. https://www.maltbazaren.dk/shop/braumeister-20-l-198c1.html 
unfortunately it is in Danish, but google translate is my friend


----------



## barneey

A couple of mods to my build, basically I have swapped out 3 of the sockets for the powercon true1's these can be connected / disconnected under load (had these in my spares box) (not too sure if the one supplied can or cant?) It also makes the use of crimp connectors easier as they have the 6.25mm spades on them.
It also means there is less chance of me getting the sockets confused.
Also worth a mention if you want to colour co ordinate things a little more the "body" of the supplied sockets can be swapped over.












Also thought about engraving the dust caps to identify the sockets.


----------



## barneey

Just finished wiring mine + a couple of other extras (a variable supply to the 2nd element & I will add another switch to on/off the dc supply to the ssr)












Again many thanks to Lael, James + all the others behind the scenes which made the project possible / happen


Cheers


----------



## lael

barneey said:


> Just finished wiring mine + a couple of other extras (a variable supply to the 2nd element & I will add another switch to on/off the dc supply to the ssr)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again many thanks to Lael, James + all the others behind the scenes which made the project possible / happen
> 
> 
> Cheers


Nice work! How did you do the variable power to the second element?


----------



## barneey

The part number is CSR2-15E , not too sure how hot the thing will get without a bigger heat sink or how much noise it will make / if any further suppression is needed? (experimental idea) 

The toggle switch is however IMHO a must for me, the idea both supplies are connected then with a simple toggle of two switches I can choose between either element / none at all or both.


----------



## lael

barneey said:


> The part number is CSR2-15E , not too sure how hot the thing will get without a bigger heat sink or how much noise it will make / if any further suppression is needed? (experimental idea)
> 
> The toggle switch is however IMHO a must for me, the idea both supplies are connected then with a simple toggle of two switches I can choose between either element / none at all or both.


Wow, that is significantly expensive from element14 etc here in Aus - 115AUD. Looks like it is available on ebay from the UK for 65 for anyone that wants one. It does look like a small heatsink... but it is rated to 15A, so you can only assume they've done their job. Does the datasheet for it say anything about cooling? 

The toggle switch is not a bad idea. I usually just plug in the elements I'm going to use, but if the controller is in a fixed location and permanently wired I can see the attraction.

The Neutrik TrueCon / True1 were one of the sockets I looked at, but the cost was prohibitive for the project. (edit: and at the time they were rated to 15A, not 20A like the sockets selected - I think they are still15A for 240V operation. I'm not actually aware of anyone using 20A at the moment... but it's nice to have the option. If you are - let me know!)

Nice work on your build! It would be great to see pics of it in operation!


----------



## barneey

Yep the True1's are rated lower the trade off is of course the under load disconnection, all depends on how much load is going through the setup, I assume the ones used on the build are the equivalent of the http://www.neutrik.com/en/video/powercon/powercon-20-a/

At the moment with the build the SSR's are wired "direct" to the elements (with the low voltage providing the power to switch the SSR), is there any issues with power leakage across the SSR's?

Reason for asking on my large box build I had separate switching (low voltage switch with a relay) between the output of the SSR and element, thus no possibility of leakage.

As there isn't very much room in the box for additional items, so at its very lowest form a simple switch could be employed on the low voltage side to prevent the SSR auctioning (this wouldn't solve any possible leakage problem) but would give me the ability for everything to be connected and an element choice, the other solution to install high voltage switches to manually open / close the element circuit,.... all the way through to switches & relays as aforementioned.


----------



## lael

barneey said:


> Yep the True1's are rated lower the trade off is of course the under load disconnection, all depends on how much load is going through the setup, I assume the ones used on the build are the equivalent of the http://www.neutrik.com/en/video/powercon/powercon-20-a/
> 
> At the moment with the build the SSR's are wired "direct" to the elements (with the low voltage providing the power to switch the SSR), is there any issues with power leakage across the SSR's?
> 
> Reason for asking on my large box build I had separate switching (low voltage switch with a relay) between the output of the SSR and element, thus no possibility of leakage.
> 
> As there isn't very much room in the box for additional items, so at its very lowest form a simple switch could be employed on the low voltage side to prevent the SSR auctioning (this wouldn't solve any possible leakage problem) but would give me the ability for everything to be connected and an element choice, the other solution to install high voltage switches to manually open / close the element circuit,.... all the way through to switches & relays as aforementioned.


Yeah, I was concerned about the load disconnection - after speaking with some of the Neutrik tech guys I was less concerned. I personally connect and disconnect my units (using the power connectors provided with the kits) all the time without any issues at all. However - it is important to note that is with 10A running through them. From memory, the technical guys mentioned that it becomes more of an issue when increasing the power throughput.

I've never had any issues with leakage - ie: zero temp creep with everything plugged in and heat off. I'll test amperage leakage/draw when I hang out with an electrician friend after Christmas and report back. There is leakage of 230V through the SSR when there is no load (which is normal for SSRs from the reading I've done on the issue), however what I've read is that it isn't actually a problem once a load is connected. I'll report back.

What do you mean by SSR auctioning? I would encourage you to give the controller a go before complicating it further. I think you will find that it will do everything you want without further modification. And yeah... it was tough fitting it all in the box as it is!  I'm pretty happy with how it has turned out.


----------



## barneey

What do you mean by SSR auctioning? = dam spelling auto correct. action-ing

As there is only one outlet on the board for the elements & I wish to use 2, I have wired them as the YouTube vid, 2 sets of wire out of the socket to their individual SSR's.

I intend to use 2 elements only when getting up to temperature , that being for example a single temp mash 65 or to the boil 100. (2 might be used during the boil depends on unit operation / will one hold a reasonable boil)

This means that with the control panel as is I would need to manually disconnect the socket at the rear of the panel (element or secondary power socket), so if 2 simple low voltage switches were incorporated I could stop the signage getting to either SSR., you would have then full control over which element to use, or stop one of them at anytime during the brew.

Is there anyway of achieving the same thing through the control panel set up or indeed another signal that could be taken off the Arduino unit so that instead of a single out for the elements the unit would have 2 outs? Software adaptation that 2 elements would fire up when getting up to temp only 1 would fire when nearly upto temp or on boil stage. My Arduino knowledge / programming isn't a strong point so am reliant on others.

I am more than happy with the box as it is but would like to tweak a few things to suit my personal preference.

Cheers


----------



## bungelbear

Just wondering what peoples thoughts were. I think this has been mentioned somewhere, but as i was building my kit, i daisychained my nuetral connections as well as my ground terminals. So i have essentially nuetraled my secondary plugs to my primary plugs. I don't think it is a problem as it is a return path, but can someone smarter than me confirm this? my sparky is away. Thanks


----------



## lael

Hi Barneey,

Sorry, I misread what you had written. I think the low voltage switch idea for turning the elements on and off is clever and will work well.

My comment about not modifying the controller was to encourage you not to worry about the voltage leakage. I think you'll find it to be a non issue. For the SSR switches, I would be tempted to use a latching switch, which should give you the effect you want.


----------



## lael

bungelbear said:


> Just wondering what peoples thoughts were. I think this has been mentioned somewhere, but as i was building my kit, i daisychained my nuetral connections as well as my ground terminals. So i have essentially nuetraled my secondary plugs to my primary plugs. I don't think it is a problem as it is a return path, but can someone smarter than me confirm this? my sparky is away. Thanks


Don't power it up, post a photo. If you've done what I think you're saying you've done it will cause issues.


----------



## barneey

lael said:


> Hi Barneey,
> 
> Sorry, I misread what you had written. I think the low voltage switch idea for turning the elements on and off is clever and will work well.
> 
> My comment about not modifying the controller was to encourage you not to worry about the voltage leakage. I think you'll find it to be a non issue. For the SSR switches, I would be tempted to use a latching switch, which should give you the effect you want.



I have managed to obtain some 15amp 240v illuminated rocker switches were are IP44 rated (not the best but should be ok for my use & will mount them underneath) I was planning to use them on the feed to each individual SSR feed thus giving me the element selection option and the ability to switch off power to the SSR (wont use them after the SSR due to the fast switching of the SSR and the illumination might take a hammering). There should be enough mounting room at the bottom of the box (fingers crossed) for the switches. Please if anyone can think why this wouldn't be a good idea let me know , I will instead wire them to the low voltage signal feed.

The switches should arrive tomorrow so will be fitting Tuesday / Wednesday.


----------



## lael

Sounds good. The illumination won't work on the DC side, but I agree, I wouldn't want to run the illumination on the AC side due to frequent switching (although I'd be interested to see how long it lasts... got a spare switch?) If you are putting the buttons underneath I'm assuming you are mounting the box on your rig so the controller doesn't need to sit flat on the ground (ever..? asking cause you will lose some flexibility if buttons are on the bottom)

edit - the SSR's DC input are on the 12vdc line, and the transistor can handle up to 600mAdc


----------



## SBOB

bungelbear said:


> Just wondering what peoples thoughts were. I think this has been mentioned somewhere, but as i was building my kit, i daisychained my nuetral connections as well as my ground terminals. So i have essentially nuetraled my secondary plugs to my primary plugs. I don't think it is a problem as it is a return path, but can someone smarter than me confirm this? my sparky is away. Thanks


Agreeing with laels comment.. If I'm reading that right your 'don't think that's a problem' is actually a pretty big problem. 

Daisy chain grounds.. Good
Daisy chain neutrals on potentially different power circuits... Bad


----------



## barneey

lael said:


> Sounds good. The illumination won't work on the DC side, but I agree, I wouldn't want to run the illumination on the AC side due to frequent switching (although I'd be interested to see how long it lasts... got a spare switch?) If you are putting the buttons underneath I'm assuming you are mounting the box on your rig so the controller doesn't need to sit flat on the ground (ever..? asking cause you will lose some flexibility if buttons are on the bottom)
> 
> edit - the SSR's DC input are on the 12vdc line, and the transistor can handle up to 600mAdc


But if I put them on the VAC side before the SSR the illumination will still work, they will just illuminate when the power is supplied via the socket, which is in some ways better as you can see instantly if the element is "going" to work. 

RS part number 377-9765

C6053ALNAM Manf no

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/54416.pdf

I have also gone for the protective cover and bezel option. (might have to hack the panel thickness for those to work).

It might be necessary to remove part of switch to make things fit / solder the connections rather than crimps to save room, after a few measurements tonight, 2 should fit (fingers crossed).


----------



## lael

Yeah, it just depends on whether you want the light to show whether there is power flowing to the SSR, or whether it shows there is actually power flowing to the heater (my opinion is that lights showing heater on is more intuitive). Its not too expensive... Wire it up and see how long the light lasts


----------



## barneey

I have fitted the switches I wanted, tight fit but everything misses each other in the box itself, just need to make the minor wiring alteration inside to connect the switches & its power up time again.


----------



## barneey

Box now rewired inside, no magic smoke escaped when power switched on, just need to find time to do a few live load tests to confirm all is well.

I'll make a bracket of somesort to fit panel to the BM & job done (nearly).

Note:- The illumination didn't last very long on account of modifying the switch to fit in the box, the green does however look better than a plain black.


----------



## bungelbear

lael said:


> Don't power it up, post a photo. If you've done what I think you're saying you've done it will cause issues.





SBOB said:


> Agreeing with laels comment.. If I'm reading that right your 'don't think that's a problem' is actually a pretty big problem.
> 
> Daisy chain grounds.. Good
> Daisy chain neutrals on potentially different power circuits... Bad


so i forgot to check back on to the thread, and plugged it in..... didnt go bang, and worked. but here is a pic for you to tell me otherwise. i can always cut out the cable btween primary and secondary plugs if need be


----------



## stux

barneey said:


> What do you mean by SSR auctioning? = dam spelling auto correct. action-ing
> 
> As there is only one outlet on the board for the elements & I wish to use 2, I have wired them as the YouTube vid, 2 sets of wire out of the socket to their individual SSR's.
> 
> I intend to use 2 elements only when getting up to temperature , that being for example a single temp mash 65 or to the boil 100. (2 might be used during the boil depends on unit operation / will one hold a reasonable boil)
> 
> This means that with the control panel as is I would need to manually disconnect the socket at the rear of the panel (element or secondary power socket), so if 2 simple low voltage switches were incorporated I could stop the signage getting to either SSR., you would have then full control over which element to use, or stop one of them at anytime during the brew.
> 
> Is there anyway of achieving the same thing through the control panel set up or indeed another signal that could be taken off the Arduino unit so that instead of a single out for the elements the unit would have 2 outs? Software adaptation that 2 elements would fire up when getting up to temp only 1 would fire when nearly upto temp or on boil stage. My Arduino knowledge / programming isn't a strong point so am reliant on others.
> 
> I am more than happy with the box as it is but would like to tweak a few things to suit my personal preference.
> 
> Cheers


Don't really see the point in disconnecting the second element once you get to the boil. The controller will use a PID algorithm right, or at least a duty cycle to maintain the boil.

At a minimum this will mean the pair of elements would work less hard than one solitary element, which can only be good for the wort and the elements? unless you want more malt caramalizing etc


----------



## SBOB

bungelbear said:


> so i forgot to check back on to the thread, and plugged it in..... didnt go bang, and worked. but here is a pic for you to tell me otherwise. i can always cut out the cable btween primary and secondary plugs if need be


Please, unless you are aiming for a Darwin award nomination
-> Disconnect the neutral connection between 'pump' and 'Sec Heat'

You should never join neutrals on potentially different circuits and your board currently has this ability as you could plug your main power and secondary power into different circuits within your house

or you know... don't and see what happens


----------



## bungelbear

SBOB said:


> Please, unless you are aiming for a Darwin award nomination
> -> Disconnect the neutral connection between 'pump' and 'Sec Heat'
> 
> You should never join neutrals on potentially different circuits and your board currently has this ability as you could plug your main power and secondary power into different circuits within your house
> or you know... don't and see what happens


righto, thank you very much SBOB, getting the clippers out now. I don't know what i was thinking when doing this. appreciate the community help. Merry christmas :kooi:


----------



## SBOB

bungelbear said:


> righto, thank you very much SBOB, getting the clippers out now. I don't know what i was thinking when doing this. appreciate the community help. Merry christmas :kooi:


If you are just cutting the wire make sure it's well isolated/insulated....


----------



## zwitter

Hi Bunglebear

The linking of the neutrals is a bad idea as has been stated. If you live in a house with only one phase and you do not have individual ELCBs / safety switches and if everything is wired up correctly THEN maybe it would all work fine.

BUT the whole reason behind the second power in and out being isolated from the primary is so that you can use 2 phases or different circuits with separate safety switches etc etc. 

Not many of us have two 15 or 20 amp circuits nicely positioned for our brew setups. I have some 40a circuits for single phase welders so can run the lot of one circuit but that really is rare.

Better to keep separate just in case you use it somewhere there is multi circuits or phases.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Stux said:


> Don't really see the point in disconnecting the second element once you get to the boil. The controller will use a PID algorithm right, or at least a duty cycle to maintain the boil.
> 
> At a minimum this will mean the pair of elements would work less hard than one solitary element, which can only be good for the wort and the elements? unless you want more malt caramalizing etc


On the control panel what setting do you set boil point at? With an original BM unit I always set mine to 102c knowing full well it would never reach that point, the element then being on all the time during the boil / thus produced a nice rolling boil, this would normally provide a 10% boil off rate.


----------



## bungelbear

SBOB said:


> If you are just cutting the wire make sure it's well isolated/insulated....


Thanks SBOB. I have heatshrunk the ends exposed and made sure its well isolated


----------



## bungelbear

zwitter said:


> Hi Bunglebear
> 
> The linking of the neutrals is a bad idea as has been stated. If you live in a house with only one phase and you do not have individual ELCBs / safety switches and if everything is wired up correctly THEN maybe it would all work fine.
> 
> BUT the whole reason behind the second power in and out being isolated from the primary is so that you can use 2 phases or different circuits with separate safety switches etc etc.
> 
> Not many of us have two 15 or 20 amp circuits nicely positioned for our brew setups. I have some 40a circuits for single phase welders so can run the lot of one circuit but that really is rare.
> 
> Better to keep separate just in case you use it somewhere there is multi circuits or phases.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Thanks zwitter. I now realise the error of my ways. I think the excitment got the better of me and i didnt think about that particular circuit properly. Lesson learned. Read/Watch then Read/Watch again.


----------



## lael

Just a general reminder to get your box checked by an electrician before you power it on.

Bungelbear: The joint neutral between the two circuits is bad because modern RCD's check the difference between active and neutral current. If they are joined the current may not return on the same circuit and should trip the RCD. I'm not sure what would happen in panels without RCDs

edited for clarity


----------



## nfragol

Merry Christmas guys.

Just got the kit and looking into wiring it.

Got 3 questions if anyone can help out with.

1. I noticed on the power supply next to the connectors there seems to be a regulator screw, what could it be and do I have to do something with it ?

2. Has anyone hooked this up to the Grainfather ? Did the temperature probe fit in the hole or do I need to get some sort of adapter for it ?

3. What PID settings should we be using for the Grainfather?

Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## MastersBrewery

1 nothing
2 yes very successfully swap out temp probe apparently easy.
3 can't remember but some have been posted over the last few pages.

Cheers


----------



## nfragol

Great, thanks


----------



## lael

nfragol said:


> Merry Christmas guys.
> 
> Just got the kit and looking into wiring it.
> 
> Got 3 questions if anyone can help out with.
> 
> 1. I noticed on the power supply next to the connectors there seems to be a regulator screw, what could it be and do I have to do something with it ?
> 
> 2. Has anyone hooked this up to the Grainfather ? Did the temperature probe fit in the hole or do I need to get some sort of adapter for it ?
> 
> 3. What PID settings should we be using for the Grainfather?
> 
> Thanks in advance guys.


1. The power supply from memory is to make minor voltage regulation changes. You should not need to change it at all. 
2. Yep - a few I've heard from. The most notable is bigmacthepunker - prob worth PMing him in case he doesn't read this. I'm pretty certain the answer is yes, same size. 
3. Check with bigmac. I think he has brewed with it a couple of times now.


----------



## tzoon

Hello,
I encounter some problems with the kit. I think there must be something malfunctioning. Indeed, the SSR is always ON.

Here's the test that I realized:
By connecting only the necessary (usb, sensor, ssr) in manual mode, and the LED indicator on the screen works perfectly ssr but both remain on constantly.
So I check the voltage between pin + and - "heater" and there are constantly 4.5v
I then took the tension between terminal 9 and earth on Arduino and it goes well from 0 to 5V as shown by the LED.
I am unable to identify the source of concern is the same if I enssemble branch of the bos and the fact that I run on 12v ...

For the pump, I also have a concern, the diode and the control works but no start up the pump. I test the pin "pump" and the circuit never closes ...

I have no knowledge in electronics advanced lmost but my connection seem to have been done properly. I would try to take a photo to be sure, but as I explained at the beginning, I found the problem very quickly without having connected all cables, just the minimum to the test ...

In advance thank you for your help.
I hope Google traduction will be understandable...
Tzoon


----------



## barneey

Been trying to work out how to mount the panel to the BM build, I altered a bracket I had +adjusted the profile lengths + panel profile to except a curve. I did try a tilt feature but the unit ended up too far away from the bracket.


----------



## lael

Hi Tzoon, can you post a photo of your test wiring? The board was tested before it was sent and all functions were working correctly. Do you have the LEDs in place?


----------



## zwitter

Hi Tzoon
Some questions
Note these tests can be done with no heaters or pumps etc connected. But the board must be run from the 12 volts not the USB. Do not plug the pump connection to the PCB as that would put 240v on the PCB and may be a little dangerous.

Do the LEDs on the SSRs themselves turn on and off?
Do you realise the -/+ on the board and the -/+ on the SSRs ?
If the 240v ends of the SSRs are at each end of the box the terminals at the centre will have the - connections on one diagonal and the + on the other diagonal. 
The + must connect to the + and the - to the -
When the red LED on the brauduino turns on by selecting the heat in Manual Mode the LEDs on the SSRs should turn on. This is regardless of any connection to the high voltage pins. Note the high voltage side is SSR/ Triac and will only switch AC voltage and not DC and will not measure on and off with a multimeter. It must have AC voltage and load connected for it to switch but the LED works regardless as it is powered by the control voltage on the inputs.
Only when the LEDs on the SSRs turn on and off should you consider connecting the 240v side.

For the pump the relay is a physical switch. So when off it is an open circuit and when closed it i a short circuit. There is a snubber connected across the switch but it still can be measured with an ohms meter. 
The relay control circuitry runs on 12v so you must have the board power connected to 12v or the relay will not switch.
When the relay does switch on it makes a mechanical click sound and you can feel this with your finger too. 
The relay is only rated for about 5 amps so if you try to switch a big load like element you will damage the relay. It is fine for all the standard pumps we generally use. Chugger, march, even the LBP if you switch 12v not 240v.
Only if the relay clicks should you connect the plug with the 240v for the pump.

Does the relay for the pump click when you turn it on and off?

Please connect the 12v and test as above then post answers and some photos please.

Zwitter
James


----------



## zwitter

Hey Barneey
Looking good
The Grainfather and brauduino make a cool setup.

That new one from KK is not bad but needs a few options to make it as nice.
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## tzoon

Hi,



zwitter said:


> Do the LEDs on the SSRs themselves turn on and off?


The problem is that they are permanently ON.
They never switch OFF.




zwitter said:


> Do you realise the -/+ on the board and the -/+ on the SSRs ?


 
Yes, absolutely, you should be able to see from the following photos...


----------



## tzoon

Voltage Measure on the Heater Pin:





On Load:





Manual mode Off:





Manual mode On:





With SSR, the same result, always ON:





Don't know where is my mistake....
Thanks for your help.
Tzoon


----------



## zwitter

Hi Tzoon

I can not see an earth on the SSRs / heatsink?

As far as the fault. 
At any time has the 12v been connected backwards?
If you unplug the SSRs does the load turn off?
If it turns off then the SSRs are ok.
It may be the transistors. But the LEDs word so ?
I think there was some wrong transistors at one time but did not think they made it to the final run.

Where are you located?

Does the pump relay switch?
One output is a possible error but both is a highly unusual posibility.
James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## tzoon

zwitter said:


> I can not see an earth on the SSRs / heatsink?


I will add an earth on them.



zwitter said:


> At any time has the 12v been connected backwards?


Absolutely, My main In Power were plugged on all over my test.



zwitter said:


> If you unplug the SSRs does the load turn off?
> If it turns off then the SSRs are ok.


Yes, if I unplugged the SSRs, there Leds switch off as when I unplugged the main In Power.



zwitter said:


> Does the pump relay switch?
> One output is a possible error but both is a highly unusual posibility.


he don't seems to work but i think taht is because of the LED ils breakink. I will try with the Red one to see if that's work.

I'm from France

I will look on the net how to test a transistor, I hope to have the necessary tools.

Thanks a lot for your help.
Tzoon


----------



## tzoon

tzoon said:


> he don't seems to work but i think taht is because of the LED ils breakink. I will try with the Red one to see if that's work.


As i supposed, with a working LED, the pump's relay seems to work


----------



## tzoon

After my test, i'm sure that my Q2 transistor is out of order.
I will replace him and look if the heater works.

Does this reference from Farnel could be replace it....?
P2N2222AG 

Tension Collecteur-Emetteur V(br)ceo: 40V
Courant de collecteur DC: 600mA
Gain en courant DC hFE: 300
Dissipation de puissance Pd: 625mW
Fréquence de transition ft: 300MHz
MSL: MSL 1 - Illimité
Nombre de broches: 3
Température de fonctionnement max..: 150°C
Polarité transistor: NPN
SVHC: No SVHC (15-Jun-2015)
Type de boîtier de transistor: TO-92

http://fr.farnell.com/on-semiconductor/p2n2222ag/transistor/dp/1611371

I will advise you anyway.

Thanks a lot.
Tzoon


----------



## lael

Hi Tzoon, 

PM'd you. Yes that is the correct transistor. We should be able to get you brewing soon!


----------



## freelander2002

Beeing a sparkey I will not ask any wiring questions  

I do have a couple questions.....

It seems that my board already have the latest version of ardbir and software. I think hehe. I did a dry run with water tonigth and after a few tweeks of the PID settings i got accseptable results. BUT, why do the pump run when mash out are finished and it goes to boil part of the program ? I do have sensor outside in the recirc loop. Will pump run all the time until boil temp are reached ? As i read the manual for ardbir, temp sensor are dismissed for boil settings with external sensor ?


----------



## lael

Hey freelander!
There is a setting for pump on during the boil. Try setting it to off.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Sorry everybody, I'm away on holidays with no Internet. Will reply on Sunday when home. GF needs a bigger silicone washer to work.


----------



## freelander2002

lael said:


> Hey freelander!
> There is a setting for pump on during the boil. Try setting it to off.


This option seems not possible when selected external sensor ? I migth have to select internal sensor and adjust pump behaviour ?


----------



## nfragol

Hi guys, a question.

From what I understand the relay on the board will switch a 240v load, but what if you feed it a12v positive DC side?

Will it switch 12v on and off?

If it will, couldn't we use this as a way to run the second SSR for the pump?

Thanks.


----------



## freelander2002

nfragol said:


> Hi guys, a question.
> 
> From what I understand the relay on the board will switch a 240v load, but what if you feed it a12v positive DC side?
> 
> Will it switch 12v on and off?
> 
> If it will, couldn't we use this as a way to run the second SSR for the pump?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, IF one SSR can handle your load( heating elements)


----------



## lael

Hey Nfragol, 

I think I posted about this a little bit ago - yes! it works! 

Run a line from +12v to the relay in, from relay out to the SSR DC+, then from SSR DC- to GND. The transistor allows the current to flow from the supply through to ground when switched on, supplying power to the SSR DC side. 

I'm looking into SSRs that can switch 2 sets of AC output for people that want to move the 240v off the board and still run 2 heating elements. It also adds a level of comfort knowing that if you accidentally plug your heater into your pump socket you won't burn out the relay (can handle 5A @ 240).


----------



## zwitter

Hi Tzoon

A thought about your heater issue.
You need to run setup and choose electric instead of Gas for the heater source for the arduino to switch the pin that drives the SŚRs?

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Hi Brauduino builders.
Well I have put a small SSR in to one of my controllers to drive the pump. This does require some soldering skills and a solder sucker or solder wick so not for the non electronics folk. It does give the option to take the 240 away from the PCB but I have actually left it on the PCB to keep the snubber circuit in play.
First photo is the before shot.
Second is with the relay removed by desoldering.
Third is wired up to the SSR purchased from jaycar. It is rated to 3amps which is heaps for the normal pumps.
Last photo is all back together again. NOTE I screwed up and have the Mega plugged in backwards here and yes I plugged it in and yes I blew it up!

Had to wait till got home to dig out another one and program it up. It all works but lost my saved configs PID settings etc

The SSR is held in with double sided tape.

Lael is sourcing some double SSRs that offers another solution so stay tuned. That will not require removal of the relay but will require some more wiring changes.

James
Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## nfragol

lael said:


> Hey Nfragol,
> 
> I think I posted about this a little bit ago - yes! it works!
> 
> Run a line from +12v to the relay in, from relay out to the SSR DC+, then from SSR DC- to GND. The transistor allows the current to flow from the supply through to ground when switched on, supplying power to the SSR DC side.
> 
> I'm looking into SSRs that can switch 2 sets of AC output for people that want to move the 240v off the board and still run 2 heating elements. It also adds a level of comfort knowing that if you accidentally plug your heater into your pump socket you won't burn out the relay (can handle 5A @ 240).


Hey Lael thanks, must of missed it somehow. My bad.

Should the SSR DC- go to GND (the same one we use for the 240v side) or to DC- on the power supply?


----------



## lael

No worries, wasn't saying not to ask. Its a great question!  

SSR DC- should go to DC- on the power supply. It is probably easier to run the power from and back to the power in terminal though


----------



## nfragol

Yes, thank you I believe your right.
I will give it a go.


----------



## freelander2002

lael said:


> Hey freelander!
> There is a setting for pump on during the boil. Try setting it to off.


Loaded last software....
Tested all the way to boil with external sensor selected and pump runs all the way until boil temp are reached. Ditched the external sensor and installed the one suplied with the kit in the vessel. ( same location as factory sensor) Now it works as a charm  With internal sensor enabled I can adjust pump operations as I see feit during the different stages


----------



## lael

freelander2002 said:


> Loaded last software....
> Tested all the way to boil with external sensor selected and pump runs all the way until boil temp are reached. Ditched the external sensor and installed the one suplied with the kit in the vessel. ( same location as factory sensor) Now it works as a charm  With internal sensor enabled I can adjust pump operations as I see feit during the different stages


Did you need to replace the washer? Can you post pics of your rig?


----------



## lael

Ok! Here we go! This has taken some time, but I'm pretty happy with the result. 

Here is the build documentation for the Brauduino Controller: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/45769hyb6p0bfyd/BrauduinoControllerBuild_v1.pdf?dl=0 

Please let me know if there is anything you notice is missing / incorrect. 

Happy New Years!


----------



## tzoon

Nice job Lael,
as usual....

Happy new year guys.

Tzoon


----------



## lael

Thanks! Happy New Year!


----------



## Cervantes

Lael,

Just read through the instructions and feel that even I may be able to pull this off. 

Great work and many thanks.


----------



## freelander2002

As requested  My rig are of the make Bratberg Compact brewer. I have opted for a single connection with the multiplug  
Have all power, signals and power for pump (12vcd) going thru a single multicore cable ( ölflex 12x1,5 mm2) 
Removed original control panel and mounted the multipin socket in its place. Modification done so brewer can be reverted to original state in the future.


----------



## freelander2002

And the controller in action


----------



## lael

Looks fascinating! How does it work?


----------



## freelander2002

Its a basic RIMS system with grain basket and from top to down recirculation  One vessel RIMS


----------



## Kingy

Finally got mine wired up. My brain is wired to. Definitely a stimulating task. 


Does anyone know what size screw I need to buy to screw the power supply unit to the box I've seen to have lost one, cheers.


----------



## lael

Looks neat! 

M3x6mm for the power supply screws


----------



## Kingy

thx lael. Also I cant seem to download the update. Im not real tech but it looks like the dropbox file is zipped. Im sure im doing something but.


----------



## lael

Which files and update? If it is zipped you will just need to unzip it. Are you updating the software on the arduino?


----------



## Kingy

Yea trying to update the arduino.


----------



## lael

Did you look at the video on YouTube?

If the zip file is the issue - download the zip and in file explorer in windows right click and hit uncompress / unzip. 

If on a Mac.... Not sure


----------



## Kingy

Yea it's not real clear on my computer for some reason and was confusing (both times lol) . I'll try watch it on my phone again.


----------



## lael

OK 

I would suggest doing one step at a time and pause the video after each step. 

If there is a spot that is confusing /unclear let me know and I'll explain


----------



## Kingy

yea cool its the onewire files. I dunno where to get them from. 
Edit its ok. I found all the links lol. Definitely overthinking it.


----------



## Kingy

All good. Got it sorted. What a smart little unit. Now I gotta work out where I'm gunna mount it and how to get the probe in a half inch "T". Who said ya can't achieve things on rainy days.


----------



## Kingy

Could someone tell me why there is a pump cycle and a pump rest in the settings. As I'm using this on my herms I don't want the pump cycling on/off.


----------



## lael

Try putting the pump break to 0


----------



## Kingy

I've never used a pid before. On a dry run I heated 40litres of water to 40°. Once it hit 39ish (I think) the element was switching on and off and it took about 5mins to climb the last degree before the buzzer went off. Then it floated between 39.5° -40° for about 10mins before it stabilized at 40°for most of the time. But still flashed 39.5° every minute or so untill the 15minute mark then it just stayed at 40° fairly constantly. (Never once did it overshoot)
Question is. 
Is that a good enough setting or does it need fine tuning?
And 
When I do a triple batch should I adjust the parameters or does the brains of this thing work it out as its heating up to mash in?
Cheers.
P.s this unit does way more than I thought it would [emoji106]


----------



## lael

Glad you like it 

I would adjust the PID settings. More aggressive sounds in order. It shouldn't take that long to hit temp. What settings are you using?


----------



## lael

I don't adjust mine when I do larger batches and it seems to work well. It could be that I'm not noticing the issues as I expect the mashing process to take longer and often am not watching it. Once it is going OK, I'll do other things...


----------



## Kingy

Yea very happy [emoji3]. It's complex to start with but the more I'm getting used to it the more I love it.
The settings are as per your video. 
Got some grain on the way to trial her out properly. I can't wait I've spent hours on this thing haha.


----------



## lael

Nice work, if it is spending 10mins 0.5degrees below temp it will affect yourash temps. I would drop the D setting and up your I setting until you get it overshooting by 0.5 degree without too much delay, then knock it back slightly. 

I'm of the opinion that a minor overshoot quickly achieved is better for mashing than a slowly achieved perfect temp (which is really the same as a longer rest at that temp).


----------



## Kingy

Yea cool I'll try that. Also is there a way to do single infusion. I'm trying to set the auto up for a single infusion.
I set the mash in to 71°c.
Then every step after that won't go below 67.5°c?


----------



## lael

You can skip steps in the set up, so just do the length of time you want and skip the rest. 

It is normal to control the tps starting low and going high though. Did you want to start high and let the temp drop?


----------



## Kingy

Sorry yea I set the mash in temp high so when I add the grain it cools to mash temp. But I can't set any of the rests lower than 67.5° even when I skip them. (So my actual sacch temp would be 67.5° bcoz the controller won't go lower) or do I set the mash in temp at my sacch rest temp and let the pid rise after I dough in.


----------



## lael

Yeah, I've always mashed in lower and let it rise. I've never tried a single infusion or with mash in that high. I'm sure single infusion will be fine. Does such a high mash in cause any clumping etc?


----------



## Kingy

Ok cool when I'm not step mashing my strike water is eg. When desired mash temp is 68° my strike water is 73.3° (using a grist ratio of 3l/1kg) 

I've worked it out it. seems I can't set the strike water higher than 3.5° above my desired mash temp with the controller.


----------



## nfragol

Hi guys,

Finished the wiring of the box and thought I'd upload a couple of photos to get some input.

Black wire is live, blue is neutral and yellow/green is ground.

Looking at the 240V picture, top connector is pump, below we have right connector power, left connector heat. On the bottom the aux power and heat
are connected with they're neutral and ground but not live.

The way i have wired it up is that i use the top SSR for the pump and the bottom SSR for the Heating element.

On the 12DC part i have bridged the power + side to one side of the pump input and the other side goes to the SSR. The return side from the SSR to the return side of the 12V input connector.

I turned it on without connecting the pump and heat and it seems to work correctly. (both SSRs light up when turning on pump and heat accordingly).

As long as someone doesn't see anything wrong with my wiring, i will plug it in to my Grainfather to see how it goes.

Thanks


----------



## nfragol

One question,

Is there a special ardbir version for the grainfather ? I keep seeing a reference to ardbir-gf edition.

If that's the case, whats the difference between the 2 and where can i get it from ?

Thanks again.


----------



## lael

Looks good! Looks neat. I don't notice anything wrong - but as always, I would recommend getting an electrician to check these things. 

oh - and GF edition - I'm unsure about that one...


----------



## freelander2002

nfragol said:


> One question,
> 
> Is there a special ardbir version for the grainfather ? I keep seeing a reference to ardbir-gf edition.
> 
> If that's the case, whats the difference between the 2 and where can i get it from ?
> 
> Thanks again.


I did the google and it seems that the hype are from someone that have just added the text "Ardbir+Grainfather" to the loading screen for Ardbir. Otherwise just the latest released version of Ardbir........


----------



## nfragol

Ok, thanks.

Couldn't understand if I was missing something or not.


----------



## freelander2002

nfragol said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> Couldn't understand if I was missing something or not.


At current time the information I gave are correct.BUT they are planning several boards https://www.facebook.com/OpenArdBir/?fref=ts


----------



## BeerIsGood

Has anybody retrofitted the Brauduino controller on the 35 L Keg King Robobrew system or started planning such a venture?

I'm curious to know if it would be an easy-to-implement and effective replacement for the existing control system for the two (1900W + 500W) elements. Of course, I would need to fit a pump and piping/hosing for recirculation, but that doesn't look complicated.

Note: I haven't actually got a Robobrew (or a Brauduino kit). I'm just thinking that Robobrew + Pump + Brauduino kit as a very appealing balance of cost, difficulty, time, and brewability outcome.

Feel free to talk me out of it.


----------



## lael

I would talk you into it 
I think it is a great idea!


----------



## freelander2002

BeerIsGood said:


> Has anybody retrofitted the Brauduino controller on the 35 L Keg King Robobrew system or started planning such a venture?
> 
> I'm curious to know if it would be an easy-to-implement and effective replacement for the existing control system for the two (1900W + 500W) elements. Of course, I would need to fit a pump and piping/hosing for recirculation, but that doesn't look complicated.
> 
> Note: I haven't actually got a Robobrew (or a Brauduino kit). I'm just thinking that Robobrew + Pump + Brauduino kit as a very appealing balance of cost, difficulty, time, and brewability outcome.
> 
> Feel free to talk me out of it.


This is basicly the brewer i have. Shitty thermostat ( reads wrong and does not re engange defore temperature drops 4 degrees). Have replaced all internals with the kit lael have made availible, works like a charm


----------



## freelander2002

pictures here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88675-the-brauduino-matho%E2%80%99s-controller-buildadvicequestion-thread/page-18


----------



## BeerIsGood

lael said:


> I would talk you into it
> I think it is a great idea!



Thanks. I've mostly talked myself into it. I'm working on my final system design and costing before diving in to buy anything. Not much design, mainly costing. Household budgets and all.



freelander2002 said:


> This is basicly the brewer i have. Shitty thermostat ( reads wrong and does not re engange defore temperature drops 4 degrees). Have replaced all internals with the kit lael have made availible, works like a charm


I had already looked at your pictures with much interest, but the different brand name through me off. Does yours also have two different sized elements? If so, how does the Brauduino handle controlling them both at the same time?


----------



## MastersBrewery

BeerIsGood said:


> Thanks. I've mostly talked myself into it. I'm working on my final system design and costing before diving in to buy anything. Not much design, mainly costing. Household budgets and all.
> 
> 
> I had already looked at your pictures with much interest, but the different brand name through me off. Does yours also have two different sized elements? If so, how does the Brauduino handle controlling them both at the same time?


Controlling two elements is simple with the kit Lael put together(infact Lael deliberately designed it to take 2 elements and more). Now there's always more than one way to skin a banana so how you want to do that is up to you. It's your banana spit to eat we're quite happy to head you in the right direction for implementation.


----------



## lael

Yeah, the kit was designed to control two elements. I use one in the kettle for mashing and one over the side for the boil. The power draw of the elements doesn't matter. The SSRs and power sockets are rated to 20A or more by the manufacturers. @240v that allows 4800w per circuit. note: you need to be able to power your unit from your houses' power which is normally 10A per circuit


----------



## freelander2002

BeerIsGood said:


> Thanks. I've mostly talked myself into it. I'm working on my final system design and costing before diving in to buy anything. Not much design, mainly costing. Household budgets and all.
> 
> 
> I had already looked at your pictures with much interest, but the different brand name through me off. Does yours also have two different sized elements? If so, how does the Brauduino handle controlling them both at the same time?


Yes it does have two different sized elements. I just let the controller adjust the power, kept the switches in to later possible revert back to original if I choose to use it purly as a sparge water heater when i have finished building my new rims set up , possible a 80 liter setup. Still in the planning phase of that one...
I have seen this design (brewer) with different names, always same parts used and it looks as they all are made at same factory. Same parts and same techical solutions ..


----------



## Ferg

I brewed a stone & wood clone on Friday as per Snows recipe elsewhere on this forum. When I was finished I noticed I had burnt some crud onto my element. I think there could have been several different ways it could have happened so I will list them and ask what people think would be the most likely explanation so I can try and solve it for next time:


the recipe contains 40% wheat
there is a pump break every 15mins for 2mins
the element was probably on throughout the boil (60mins)
I had issues with cooling, the trub would have been left on the element for roughly 30mins
I don't have enough experience with beer to be able to tell when exactly it happened. I didn't notice any burnt smells during the mash but then again I had supped a few by that stage. There is a pronounced bitterness to the wort right now but again I dont have the experience to know if this is from the burnt crud or my late hop additions that sat for way too long..

Cheers.


----------



## The Judge

Finally, after fixing up a short-circuited element and getting back onto electric brewing from a temporary gas set-up, I plugged in the Brauduino to my 3V system. 

Had 0.5°C overshoot at each step (which I'll adjust for next brew) however I had a whopping 81% efficiency. That's a huge jump from a typical 75% on my rig. I put it down to not taking any shortcuts (especially during sparging), because the controller did all the work for me  very happy.

.


----------



## checkers

Hey guys, so I was just got my controller back from the sparky, haven't hooked it up to mains but I've been running it off usb.
I had it working fine, set it up off tutorial on you tube then went to upload software.
Somehow while I've been ducking around with it I seemed to have wiped the software and now I can't reload it.
This is the error msg I get while trying to verify ardbir2-8-3rc8
Can anyone help me out here?
Oh I'm working on a Mac if that might have something to do with it


----------



## SBOB

error compiling... nothing like non-descriptive error messages 

I would just delete you're current ardbir project folder, download the ardbir program again,open it and re-configure the LCD type and language etc and try again

I had an issue with mine (not compile related though) which turned out that during my messing around with the code I have forgotten to reconfigure one of the parameters, meaning it didnt work correctly. Its possible you've accidentally deleted some portion of code and the Arduino software doesnt have very good compiling debugging.


----------



## checkers

Yea no worries I'll give that a go when I get home..
I might even try doing it from my partners PC


----------



## Siborg

I'm a little curious about this. I sold my braumeister to get some music equipment and am buying a keg king robo brew and a pump for recirc with the change. Do you reckon I could, with a little bit of modification, rig something like this up to the robobrew? Not at all a necessity for me but thinking, if I get the DIY bug a little later in the year, that I could make my standard robo brew into an automated system.


----------



## Mardoo

No reason you couldn't. Folks have retrofitted the Grainfather. It's a heating element and pump controller.


----------



## checkers

Hey guys, just in case anyone was wondering I followed the software upload video on YouTube and tried it on October and got my controller working again..
Maybe I'm not that good on mac or maybe there's an issue that platform but overall works fine [emoji108]


----------



## checkers

October means PC in predictive text...


----------



## lael

Someone else posted a while ago saying they had issues on Mac as well. I'm sure there are arduino users on Mac though. Show us your rig when you use it next!


----------



## SBOB

Mac user here.. The only hassle was getting the right folder for the included libraries right


----------



## checkers

Cheers lael, will do.. Got most of the parts just gotta put it all together ;-)


----------



## bungelbear

hey guys.
so i finally got to put my rig through a dry run last night with water only to test everything out. Brauduino worked wonderfully except for one thing that has got me stumped.
Used in manual mode i had elements going and the pump. After about 40mins the pump turned itself off, so i thought that it was having a pump rest. It wouldn't turn back on again and when i looked at the display i noticed that the P was displayed but the little black box that surrounds it had disappered. so i pushed the pump button and the P disappeared. Pushed it again and i got a micro second green LED flash, the pump sounded like it was going to start then stopped andn othing happened. The P appeared in the display with no black box around it. Pushed it again to turn off, then on again. Got screen scrambling, so unplugged main power. turned on, put back on to manual mode and after it beeped at me switching to manual mode, i got 3 short beeps. I decided to play it safe and turn the whole unit off.
What could be the cause? I had a thought about pump off during boil, or it turning off when it hit 80 or thereabouts. haven't checked this yet but if anybody has any ideas or thoughts, please let me know.
Cheers


----------



## MastersBrewery

In your circuit checks ensure the Led for the pump is seated correctly, it is inline, and their for if it don't work neither will the pump.


----------



## Siborg

Is there a GitHub repo or something for the software this uses?


----------



## ken_gilchrist

G'day all,
I just recently purchased a Grainfather to fit my Matho's too. I'm super excited to get this thing running and do my first AG brew, a quick question for someone who has hooked up their Matho's to their Grainfather, what did you do about the temp probe and getting a good solid seal? The probe that came with the Mathos wont fit into the well on the GF and I tried removing the GF standard well but the hole looks like it is 20mm or so and the Matho's temp probe almost fits through it. I tried some large stainless washers but It does not get a good (confident) seal. I did consider cutting the two probes and joining the standard GF probe to the Mathos 3.5mm jack but I don't want to stuff two probes.

Like I said I am super excited to get this running but I want to make sure it will be an enjoyable first AG experience. 

any help, advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hey Ken,
I used two silicon washers from a SS keg king carb caps. Seals perfectly. Done two brews no leaks. I post photo tonight when home from work.


----------



## bungelbear

MastersBrewery said:


> In your circuit checks ensure the Led for the pump is seated correctly, it is inline, and their for if it don't work neither will the pump.


Thanks for the advice MastersBrewery. i checked that out before reassembling. i think i have nutted the problem out. The pump off temp was set to 80c and i didnt realise this. so when it flicked off, it was doing what it was meant to. im guessing by mashing the buttons i caused it to spaz out. running it again tonight and its working perfectly. 
Yay :lol:


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hi Ken,
Sorry for the delay. I used the larger silicon washer on the inside and the silicon washer that come with the probe on the outside. Works treat, 3 brews in now. SS wouldn't be that flexible. Have you tried to bend the washer to the shape of the GF. Have you brewed with it yet?
Cheers
Big G


----------



## bigmacthepunker

I would like to program the controller to be able to brew at 5.30 in the morning and can only get the delay start to a max of 2.40 hours. Is this correct or am I missing something.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

bigmacthepunker said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1454743213.839484.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1454743234.508596.jpg
> 
> Hi Ken,
> Sorry for the delay. I used the larger silicon washer on the inside and the silicon washer that come with the probe on the outside. Works treat, 3 brews in now. SS wouldn't be that flexible. Have you tried to bend the washer to the shape of the GF. Have you brewed with it yet?
> Cheers
> Big G


Thanks bigmactheplunker,
were did you get the silicone washer from? I lost the one that came with the mathos temp probe at Masters when I was looking for a solution. No I havn't brewed with it yet, I want to get the probe sorted first then I'll do a wet run before my first AG.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hi Ken, pm sent. Hope you get sorted soon mate, I'm out the backyard brewin with controller and GF, they work so well together.


----------



## nfragol

Hi Bigmac, 

I plan on using the controller with my grainfather also. How are the temperature ramps, and temperature stability with the controller and your grainfather?

Would you mind sharing your controller settings?

Would really appreciate it.

Thanks.


----------



## Kingy

Finally got my china delivered ss cap and reducer to fit the supplied probe so I could use with my hex thanks to some chap earlier in the thread for the idea[emoji106] in case someone missed it here's a pic
It's a 3/4 cap and 3/4-1/2inch reducer


----------



## Mardoo

So did you cut threads into the hole in the 3/4" cap? If so what specs?

Looks great! I have yet to build that bit up.


----------



## Kingy

Nah was just a 10mm hole. The probe has a seal that sits on the inside of the cap and the nut in the photo locks it in place when you do it up.


----------



## Mardoo

Excellent. Cheers.


----------



## The Judge

Looks good. Hope you dont ever get an air bubble in there though, otherwise your temp probe will just be measuring the temp of a bubble! Best practice is to put the temp probe on the bottom, not top of a tee.


----------



## Kingy

I've never thought of that. It hasn't been a problem yet on this or my previous setup. But you have me worried now. I thought it would be best to have facing the flow as opposed to coming in from the side. But an air bubble never crossed my mind. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## The Judge

No problem


----------



## farsonic

Just finished wiring up my Brauduino and now to install the temperature probe into my Crown Urn. I've decided that installing the probe underneath is the best option and removed the base to have a look. Given that I'm going to lock the thermostat on full can this simply be bypassed (ie hardwire brown/live together) and let the PID in the Brauduino manage the element? 

Looking at the size of the hole used for the Crown URN thermometer, I suspect this will be a direct swap out for the supplied 1/4" Brauduino temp probe. 

So, current thinking

1) Hardwire the live wires together, removing the thermostat 
2) Remove the Crown Urn temperature wire 
3) Install Brauduino temperature probe directly in place of the existing one and reuse the provided hole. 

Any thoughts on this?

F


----------



## lael

Post a picture for those of is that haven't seen the underneath of one. In principle yes, you want the Brauduino to control the temp, not the urn.


----------



## farsonic

Have drilled a new hole for the temp probe and going to simply leave the urn at maximum. This way I can see how it goes and keep the protection circuits in place for the Crown element. Will see how this goes and then if needed make some modifications later. Now, to try and screw this temp probe in tight...damn awkward! 

F


----------



## bigbern

I have modified the crown urn. Got rid of the boil dry protection and thermostat. Made one hole large enough for the wort return and left the other hole for the temp probe. It was a little bit oversize for the probe but it still seals and works well. Actually I think it is an old birko urn.


----------



## jabbos

hi everyone, I'm Fab from italy

after two succesfully test with mash and boil (all the things goes perfect), on the brewday something strange happened.

at the auto mode start, during the pump test, an orizontal scrolling text (made of letters, symbols and squares) appeared on my lcd and after few seconds the controller has shut down. after this the controller is dead.

I've checked all the connections (based on the controller build pdf), nothing wrong but nothing to do, no sign of activity.

i have disconnected the arduino board and plugged with usb cable at the pc, but no sign of activity, green led off . Only with a 12v charger plugged in, the led near the reset button become green but anyway no sign of activity on the pc: the device is not recognized (I have installed the proper driver downloaded from the web).

I have placed the arduino board on the pcb and this is regularly powered (green led on) but no sign of activity on the lcd.

at this point i think that the processor is dead...

anyone have experienced something similar?

i have bought another arduino mega 2560... but i am very disappointed

I think the Arduino board is covered by the warranty, but how can I obtain warranty service? I have nothing that proves the purchase.


----------



## lael

Hi fab,

Can you post photos of your wiring please? What pump are you using?


----------



## jabbos

lael said:


> Hi fab,
> 
> Can you post photos of your wiring please? What pump are you using?


Hi Lael,
I'm using a chugger pump

http://www.chuggerpumps.com/home-brewing-pumps-chugger/chugger-pump-products/item/cpss-in-2/

i don't use heating element and pump auxiliaries

here my wiring

http://imgur.com/Y4pk67X


----------



## heyhey

jabbos, your wiring looks too tight in that small box. I think you will have trouble with those SSRs and 12V power supply overheating and then melting.

I think you need a MUCH bigger box for cooling capacity


----------



## SBOB

heyhey said:


> jabbos, your wiring looks too tight in that small box. I think you will have trouble with those SSRs and 12V power supply overheating and then melting.
> 
> I think you need a MUCH bigger box for cooling capacity


whats the basis for that thought?
Its the standard box supplied with the kit, the SSR's have a heatsink on the back and that wiring is great and as per the recommendations by Lael and others on here


----------



## heyhey

I only caught the picture from the gallery. I had my SSRs that close and they cooked. Even with a heat sink. I'm not making a qualified recommendation


----------



## heyhey

Apologies for not know what I'm talking about


----------



## jabbos

ok, but wiring it's ok or not? anyone have had something similar to my arduino board problem? I hope that was a corrupted arduino board... tomorrow i'm going to substitute the board and i hope that all the things will be ok

I haven't mentioned in the previuous post: i have a 2500w heating element

there are some possibility that the pcb is fried? As I had said previously the arduino board plugged through usb at the pc is not recognized (also powered with a 12v charger - green led on), i think that arduino board is the problem... but at the moment i don't know

heyhey, i have also a pc fun installed on the heatsink


----------



## zwitter

Hi
Arduinos are amazing but even the experts blow them up. I have 2 dead R3 s and now a dead mega as well. Plugged the mega in backwards when tired and does not work any more.

I think it sounds like the Arduino is shot. I would also say that the recent code I think still runs in the cheaper R3 arduino and they are quarter the cost.

Your wiring is confusing as you have used two blue wires for the 12 v to the board. And the other wiring is positioned too close to trace where it goes. I would suggest maybe unplugging all but the 12 v supply to the board and then check each connection before plugging it in. You have the relay connected but are you using both SSRs too?
Can not see the pic as I type. It is possible to use the relay to switch 12 v to the input of the SSR and SSR to switch pump but I would suggest to get it working as it was designed and then make changes.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## jabbos

zwitter said:


> Hi
> Arduinos are amazing but even the experts blow them up. I have 2 dead R3 s and now a dead mega as well. Plugged the mega in backwards when tired and does not work any more.
> 
> I think it sounds like the Arduino is shot. I would also say that the recent code I think still runs in the cheaper R3 arduino and they are quarter the cost.
> 
> Your wiring is confusing as you have used two blue wires for the 12 v to the board. And the other wiring is positioned too close to trace where it goes. I would suggest maybe unplugging all but the 12 v supply to the board and then check each connection before plugging it in. You have the relay connected but are you using both SSRs too?
> Can not see the pic as I type. It is possible to use the relay to switch 12 v to the input of the SSR and SSR to switch pump but I would suggest to get it working as it was designed and then make changes.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


hi james,
thank you.

here a pic maybe more clear

http://imgur.com/KU92Jg2

about SSR: can i use one of the two or i have to use both?

i have used the scheme in pdf attached here https://www.dropbox.com/s/45769hyb6p0bfyd/BrauduinoControllerBuild_v1.pdf?dl=0%C2%A0

a pic here

http://imgur.com/xwIx8dO


----------



## zwitter

Hi Jabbos

The wiring is probably OK but the use of 2 same coloured wires makes it confusing. Should use different colour for + and -.

You do not need both SSRs.

I would program the new arduino mega just using the USB to power it. 

Then if you can measure the voltage on the plug from power supply for voltage and polarity. 

Check it powers up and you get the display and buttons work.

Run setup and set basic functions . Electric etc

Then plug temp probe in and check you get temp.

Put in manual mode and try turning pump on and see if you get the green LED on. (did this work before?)

You should also get the relay clicking when the pump turns on and off. Do not connect the plug for pump yet.

If that all works then continue.

Then connect SSR wire and try turning heat on and see if the red LED and the led on the SSR both come on.

If any stage does not work turn off and report back.

Common faults can be loose LEDs., Arduino connected backwards or pins not lined up correctly, polarised connections backwards. Also possible that transistors on the shield board have been blown up.

Please also report your electronic knowledge and the tools you have at hand.

Cheers 
James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## jabbos

thanks james,
tonight i'm going to substitute arduino and try all your advices


----------



## ken_gilchrist

Afternoon guys,
I need a little help with my Mathos controller.

Firstly I must say that after just completing my first ever AG brew this controller made the transition from extract so simple. It's amazing and to everyone involved thanks heaps.

Now the "problem" no a big issue I just cant get my controller to go past 98 deg for the boil. I have the target temp as 101 but it wont get there. I do have a boil but it wont start my timer and alerts for hop additions until it reaches target temp. I think there may have been some ting on one of the videos posted but cant remember. What do I need to adjust in the setup menu to over spec the element? TIA

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmp37y2z9205m10/20160228_150638.jpg?dl=0


----------



## SBOB

likely your PID loop parameters need tuning.. When its close to boiling is the 'H' relay/LED/status indicator turning on and off?


----------



## ken_gilchrist

LED has stayed on constant.I haven't really noticed the "H" during this stage. But I would say its been on solid too


----------



## ken_gilchrist

Now my pump wont work....AARRRGGGHHHH.

Holding down the button down in manual to run the counterflow chiller and the LED flicks then goes off again. Any ideas?


----------



## SBOB

and have you verified that the temp reading is accurate, as if its actually boiling then it should be reading ~100 and not 98..perhaps the temp probe reading needs tweaking


----------



## SBOB

there is a parameter which either enables or disables the pump in the boil (which is essentially anything >80c)... I'll bet 2c that its set to 'No', which is preventing the pump operating


----------



## ken_gilchrist

ken_gilchrist said:


> Now my pump wont work....AARRRGGGHHHH.
> 
> Holding down the button down in manual to run the counterflow chiller and the LED flicks then goes off again. Any ideas?


All good... sorted now. Phew HAHAHA


----------



## ken_gilchrist

SBOB said:


> there is a parameter which either enables or disables the pump in the boil (which is essentially anything >80c)... I'll bet 2c that its set to 'No', which is preventing the pump operating


Thanks SBOB. I have sorted it now. Will go in and check the parameters once I have done. Still a very pleasing intro to AG brewing

Thanks again


----------



## ken_gilchrist

SBOB said:


> there is a parameter which either enables or disables the pump in the boil (which is essentially anything >80c)... I'll bet 2c that its set to 'No', which is preventing the pump operating





SBOB said:


> and have you verified that the temp reading is accurate, as if its actually boiling then it should be reading ~100 and not 98..perhaps the temp probe reading needs tweaking


----------



## djgilmore

jabbos said:


> hi everyone, I'm Fab from italy
> 
> after two succesfully test with mash and boil (all the things goes perfect), on the brewday something strange happened.
> 
> at the auto mode start, during the pump test, an orizontal scrolling text (made of letters, symbols and squares) appeared on my lcd and after few seconds the controller has shut down. after this the controller is dead.
> 
> I've checked all the connections (based on the controller build pdf), nothing wrong but nothing to do, no sign of activity.
> 
> i have disconnected the arduino board and plugged with usb cable at the pc, but no sign of activity, green led off . Only with a 12v charger plugged in, the led near the reset button become green but anyway no sign of activity on the pc: the device is not recognized (I have installed the proper driver downloaded from the web).
> 
> I have placed the arduino board on the pcb and this is regularly powered (green led on) but no sign of activity on the lcd.
> 
> at this point i think that the processor is dead...
> 
> anyone have experienced something similar?
> 
> i have bought another arduino mega 2560... but i am very disappointed
> 
> I think the Arduino board is covered by the warranty, but how can I obtain warranty service? I have nothing that proves the purchase.


Hi Jabbos,

I recently had a similar issue, I had accidentally shorted the connections of the Temperature sensor. After 2 years of use the wire at the connector had stretched and then twisted causing the short.
This killed the Arduino Uno (As per yours would switch on but computer would not recognize it), I replaced the Arduino and then found out i had also damaged the LCD (half the pixels would not work) and 1 of the tracks on the board between the Arduino and LCD was also damaged.

Took me 2 months to get it figured out and up and running, while i was at it i updated the software to the latest version of ArdBir.


----------



## MitchD

ken_gilchrist said:


> Afternoon guys,
> I need a little help with my Mathos controller.
> 
> Firstly I must say that after just completing my first ever AG brew this controller made the transition from extract so simple. It's amazing and to everyone involved thanks heaps.
> 
> Now the "problem" no a big issue I just cant get my controller to go past 98 deg for the boil. I have the target temp as 101 but it wont get there. I do have a boil but it wont start my timer and alerts for hop additions until it reaches target temp. I think there may have been some ting on one of the videos posted but cant remember. What do I need to adjust in the setup menu to over spec the element? TIA
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wmp37y2z9205m10/20160228_150638.jpg?dl=0


Water has a set boiling temperature, once there it will not rise any more and setting your boil set point above this will prevent the controller from starting the boil timer. So what you should do is test what temp point waer boils (98) and set your boil to this. When that temperature is reached the clock will start and pwm will control how vigorous the boil is.

If you are close to sea level water should boil at 100, I'd check and calibrate the temp probe then re set the boil set point.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Ken 
You are getting excellent assistance from some of the guys here but another thing that may come into play is the position of your temp probe.
There is setting for internal and external and pump in boil etc and PID settings. All these will affect the way your system operates. 
The recent software does allow calibration or offset of the temp probe but really they should be within a very close range.
Easiest to adjust the PID for a slight over temp and maybe set boil to 99deg. But the red LED should give an indication of the element turning off.
The other thing is heat loss. I wrapped mine in foam and fitted a domed lid to get a strong rolling boil. The pump head and tubing all radiate heat so any effort to reduce the heat loss will improve the boil.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ken_gilchrist

MitchD said:


> Water has a set boiling temperature, once there it will not rise any more and setting your boil set point above this will prevent the controller from starting the boil timer. So what you should do is test what temp point waer boils (98) and set your boil to this. When that temperature is reached the clock will start and pwm will control how vigorous the boil is.
> 
> If you are close to sea level water should boil at 100, I'd check and calibrate the temp probe then re set the boil set point.





zwitter said:


> Hi Ken
> You are getting excellent assistance from some of the guys here but another thing that may come into play is the position of your temp probe.
> There is setting for internal and external and pump in boil etc and PID settings. All these will affect the way your system operates.
> The recent software does allow calibration or offset of the temp probe but really they should be within a very close range.
> Easiest to adjust the PID for a slight over temp and maybe set boil to 99deg. But the red LED should give an indication of the element turning off.
> The other thing is heat loss. I wrapped mine in foam and fitted a domed lid to get a strong rolling boil. The pump head and tubing all radiate heat so any effort to reduce the heat loss will improve the boil.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


 Thanks guys for all the advice, I really appreciated it yesterday. I will go and check the set up this afternoon and make some adjustments.

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

zwitter said:


> Hi Ken
> You are getting excellent assistance from some of the guys here but another thing that may come into play is the position of your temp probe.
> There is setting for internal and external and pump in boil etc and PID settings. All these will affect the way your system operates.
> The recent software does allow calibration or offset of the temp probe but really they should be within a very close range.
> Easiest to adjust the PID for a slight over temp and maybe set boil to 99deg. But the red LED should give an indication of the element turning off.
> The other thing is heat loss. I wrapped mine in foam and fitted a domed lid to get a strong rolling boil. The pump head and tubing all radiate heat so any effort to reduce the heat loss will improve the boil.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Ok so I have done a calibration of the temp probe and it was within .2 degree of another digital probe so I didn't even bother changing it. I did bump up my "Heat in Boil" from 98% to 100% and I have changed the temp boil to 99 deg. Other than that I have set it up exactly the same as your video, is there anything else I need to do?

Also when I go into manage recipe/save setting it says memory full. How many different recipes can I have pre-loaded? also how do I create a recipe and upload it?

Is there some sort of operating manual that will detail exactly what each setting parameter does?

Sorry for all the NOOB questions, I just want to understand the functions of the controller better

Thanks


----------



## jabbos

djgilmore said:


> Hi Jabbos,
> 
> I recently had a similar issue, I had accidentally shorted the connections of the Temperature sensor. After 2 years of use the wire at the connector had stretched and then twisted causing the short.
> This killed the Arduino Uno (As per yours would switch on but computer would not recognize it), I replaced the Arduino and then found out i had also damaged the LCD (half the pixels would not work) and 1 of the tracks on the board between the Arduino and LCD was also damaged.
> 
> Took me 2 months to get it figured out and up and running, while i was at it i updated the software to the latest version of ArdBir.


hi djgilmore,

arduino mega substituted. now all works fine. I've made only some tests but i've no issue to report at the moment. in two weeks i'm going to have a brewday and i hope that i will not have troubles


----------



## MitchD

Good to hear you have made some changes and now i'm on a computer and not a phone I can elaborate on my ramblings I posted before.

Now you have changed the boil set point to 99 I would do a "dry run" with your full boil volume for 3 reasons:

1. Check what temperature your water boils at, in Canberra at ~700m above sea level mine boils at 97.5c. If i had it set to 98 or 99 the controller would throw full power at it, however once water is boiling it wont increase in temperature therefore the timer will never start.
You can find this in manual mode by bumping the temperature up a few degrees at a time until it is boiling and the temp sits stable but under your set point. This is your boil set point.
A low setpoint will start the timer but you will only have a gentle simmer, too high and your timer wont start.

2. When you have it at boil you can adjust the PWM% to set how vigorous the boil will be. More % more boil, less % less boil and potentially it will slip under your set point. For a 5500w element i am using 75%

3. With the full boil volume run a 60 minute boil at your temperature setpoint and PWM% and record your boil off. If you stick with a PWM% your boil off will be stable from batch to batch. I boil off 5.5l per hour regardless of it is 10l or 30l.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

MitchD said:


> Good to hear you have made some changes and now i'm on a computer and not a phone I can elaborate on my ramblings I posted before.
> 
> Now you have changed the boil set point to 99 I would do a "dry run" with your full boil volume for 3 reasons:
> 
> 1. Check what temperature your water boils at, in Canberra at ~700m above sea level mine boils at 97.5c. If i had it set to 98 or 99 the controller would throw full power at it, however once water is boiling it wont increase in temperature therefore the timer will never start.
> You can find this in manual mode by bumping the temperature up a few degrees at a time until it is boiling and the temp sits stable but under your set point. This is your boil set point.
> A low setpoint will start the timer but you will only have a gentle simmer, too high and your timer wont start.
> 
> 2. When you have it at boil you can adjust the PWM% to set how vigorous the boil will be. More % more boil, less % less boil and potentially it will slip under your set point. For a 5500w element i am using 75%
> 
> 3. With the full boil volume run a 60 minute boil at your temperature setpoint and PWM% and record your boil off. If you stick with a PWM% your boil off will be stable from batch to batch. I boil off 5.5l per hour regardless of it is 10l or 30l.


Thanks heaps MitchD, coincidentally I am now in Canberra too so that might explain why my water started to boil at 98 also. I'll do a wet run and check it out as you described, but where is the PWM% setting?

I'm also running my controller on my Grainfather, I have the mash/boil switch on boil constantly with the idea the controller will regulate the power to the element as required. It has a 2400KW I believe.


----------



## SBOB

ken_gilchrist said:


> Thanks heaps MitchD, coincidentally I am now in Canberra too so that might explain why my water started to boil at 98 also. I'll do a wet run and check it out as you described, but where is the PWM% setting?
> 
> I'm also running my controller on my Grainfather, I have the mash/boil switch on boil constantly with the idea the controller will regulate the power to the element as required. It has a 2400KW I believe.


with a 10a/2400kw element I would just leave the boil power at 100%


----------



## MitchD

ken_gilchrist said:


> Thanks heaps MitchD, coincidentally I am now in Canberra too so that might explain why my water started to boil at 98 also. I'll do a wet run and check it out as you described, but where is the PWM% setting?
> 
> I'm also running my controller on my Grainfather, I have the mash/boil switch on boil constantly with the idea the controller will regulate the power to the element as required. It has a 2400KW I believe.


Well that explains a lot, your location is set as Darwin. Are you a Canberra brewers club member? Our march meeting is this Thursday at the German club. There are quite a few Grain father users there and i think i'm the only one using Mathos controller (Not on a gf)

The PWM setting is in the configuration menu as PWM.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

MitchD said:


> Well that explains a lot, your location is set as Darwin. Are you a Canberra brewers club member? Our march meeting is this Thursday at the German club. There are quite a few Grain father users there and i think i'm the only one using Mathos controller (Not on a gf)
> 
> The PWM setting is in the configuration menu as PWM.


Not yet. I am going back to Darwin on Thursday so I will miss that meeting unfortunately. But intend on getting to the next one.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

SBOB said:


> with a 10a/2400kw element I would just leave the boil power at 100%


Cheers


----------



## barneey

A quick question to you code junky people please.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50llama/AADjGS0nvq5eLQZZN98URR3la/Manuals/2.8.x?dl=0




> Mash-Out 75°-80°C 1-140min Sixth step completely configurable. 167°-176°F Mash out is mandatory step.


There is somewhat of an annoying Mash Out step in the software which is mandatory, is there anyway it can be coded to skip this step or program to a lower temperature than 75c. Any help appreciated.


----------



## barneey

//Setting 8 Stages
float p_C[] ={ 75.00, 20.00, 0.25, 55.00, 25.00, 0.25, 50.00, 35.00, 0.25, 60.00, 45.00, 0.25, 70.00, 50.00, 0.25, 76.00, 60.00, 0.25, 76.00, 60.00, 0.25, 80.00, 75.00, 0.25 }; 
float p_F[] ={ 167.00, 68.00, 0.25, 131.00, 77.00, 0.25, 122.00, 95.00, 0.25, 140.00, 113.00, 0.25, 158.00, 122.00, 0.25, 168.75, 140.00, 0.25, 176.00, 167.00, 0.25, 176.00, 167.00, 0.25 };

Ok I think I have worked it out and have just changed the last 2 values (The last values on the end for C 80, 75, 0.25 to say 67,72,0.25)

Everything seems to be working fine, but if anyone know of reason not to please let me know.

Thanks


----------



## bigmacthepunker

nfragol said:


> Hi Bigmac,
> 
> I plan on using the controller with my grainfather also. How are the temperature ramps, and temperature stability with the controller and your grainfather?
> 
> Would you mind sharing your controller settings?
> 
> Would really appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks.


Sorry Nfragol for the delay.
My GF settings. Still needs a little tweaking.
95
100
5
3500
5000
100%
1.00
I haven't had time to sort a few issues. I have issue get to the boil timer stage. My boil temp is set at 110 deg when the GF comes to boil I use the down button to drop it to 100 deg to start the timer. But I have made some great beer already this way. I need to look at the timer as I want to setup the night before but my timer has a max of 2.4 hours. I played with the code. So I don't know if that has changed other things. Just the joys of brewin. Hope of this helps. Overshoots by 0.5 deg only sometimes.


----------



## nfragol

Hi Big Mac, thanks for the reply.

Looks like a good starting point.

Thanks again.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

OK...so did my second brew today and after making the changes to the controller I cannot get the boil temp over 96.5deg. Now surprisingly my water get a gentle boil at 95, I just cant seem to get it to hit 100 and start the timer. The issue is that when I lower the boil temp in the settings it does not maintain a boil as the SSR keeps flicking on and off. I played with a few setting during a "wet" run today but it made no difference to the boil and temp ( I have checked the calibration with another tool and it is spot on).

Any help will be appreciated.


----------



## SBOB

do you have the power % during boil set to 100%? if you do, I dont see why the SSR would be cycling during the boil stage


----------



## MitchD

Your water boil will not reach 100c in canberra, you have to change your boil setpoint to reflect that 96.5?. Then leave your power at 100%


----------



## ken_gilchrist

MitchD said:


> Your water boil will not reach 100c in canberra, you have to change your boil setpoint to reflect that 96.5?. Then leave your power at 100%


Yep sorted it out thanks heaps. Brew day yesterday went off without a hitch.


----------



## MastersBrewery

Guys I have to admit mine is still in the cupboard unfinished, I have no specific need to have it done as I have one of the originals running my clone, however last brew day as I finished mash out I notice both my element SSRs were melted and quite badly. After shutting down the power I quickly stripped the HV box and removed the offending SSRs replacing them with the ones from the kit. Brew day disaster averted, and it also reminded me I need to get this thing built at some point.
For those wondering I have a new heat sink and some fans on a slow boat to sort the issue permanently.And I didn't have to tip 40L of amber.


----------



## lespaul

Hi all,

Got this project cracking along (with the little spare time ive got!!!!) but its about 50% there... why does SS take so long to drill!!!!

Anyway, the unit is wired up and my sparky mate and I did some initial tests on it and it seems the pump is active with and without the pump turned on.

Everything else seemed to be running well and the buttons, screen and everything else seems to be working fine.

Wiring is checked and is wired up as per diagrams on initial pages.

Any initial thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## zwitter

Hi lespaul

Ok, this has been asked and answered before.

I need to know your level of experience with 240v
The test equipment available,
Spares available,

If you are in sydney and not too far from Parramatta then a visit may be possible and can sort it..

First thing is to get the LEDs both working. Pump and heat.
Does the p and H appear on the LCD when buttons pressed?

You NEED to do the setup. Some functions just do not work unless the setup is correct. I would suggest printing the ArdBir manual and scribble your setup in there as you go. Some , including mine, were defaulted to gas heat so needed to change to electric.

For this testing I strongly advise someone who knows how not to get electrocuted does this bit. I advise disconnecting the 240v from the relay(can just unplug the green connector). Disconnect the 240v from the SSRs.
The only place 240 should go is to the power supply, nothing else.

Possible problems with the LEDs
LED is plugged in backwards.
You can swap red and green in testing. 
If either work then you can test the next bit
Pump, does the relay click on and off?
Heat does the LED on the SSR switch on and off?

One big question is are you switching the active wire?

If the led lights up but relay does not then it is possible the transistor is shot. It would require soldering iron and a spare if that is the case.

Anyway see how you get on and then answer the questions and can make further suggestions

James
Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## marc280

If you follow James' advice you can't go wrong. I had what sounds like the same issue where I was getting voltage on the pump output all the time.

I posted about this a few pages back and it turned out that there is only a tiny current getting through to the output and as soon as you connect up the pump it's not enough to run the pump. I think it is a snubber in the circuit that let's a small current through to the output (enough to show volts) but was designed this way. Check the earlier post as I think James explained this there.


----------



## lespaul

Thanks again. Ive read a lot of this thread and tried to do a search but didnt yield anything... sorry for the double up.

Im not near the setup right now but from memory:
The lights were working with the buttons fine.
Pressing the button you could hear the ssr click.
No change in voltage for off and on.

I will go through the above steps and report back. 

Thanks again for the response


----------



## zwitter

Hi LesPaul
As Marc380 says there is a small leakage through the snubber cct. So if no load you may not see a change in voltage. Try putting a load on the output. A simple lightglobe would be enough.

Oh and the SSRs do not click. The relay makes an audible click when it switches on and off but the SSRs are silent that is why they have the LED on them to show they are activated.

If the relay clicks on and off then as long as no solder bridging the pins then it should work fine. Try wiring up and putting a load on.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Smokomark

Hi all,

I've assembled my controller but I can't get the pump to run. 
The P lights up on the screen but the LED doesn't light up. I've swapped the LEDs and both do work but only light up when in the heat LED socket.

Any ideas?


----------



## zwitter

Hi Smokomark

Have you run setup?

Plea see the comments above and advise the he same answers please.
Experience etc.
I assume when you say both LEDS work, that they are both bent same way and work in H but not in P?

You have not altered the arduino mega as it was sent out by Lael and myself?

Etc
Regards
james


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Smokomark

Hi James,

Yes I have gone through the setup.
Both LEDS work but only in H not in P
My understanding is that the LED forms part of the circuit so if there is no power there then the relay will not click.

Everything is as I received it in the post, no modifications no updates.

Cheers,
Smoko


----------



## zwitter

Hi Smokomark

Do you have the board powered by USB cable or the 12v power supply?

The relay / pump circuit uses the 12v to switch the relay on so it will not switch if powered by the USB cable.

The heater circuit uses 5v so usually it will work on USB power.

I still need to know what equipment and experience you have so can get you to check other things.

Where on this planet are you?

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Smokomark

I'm in Brisbane James.
Board is powered via 12v 

Equipmentwise I have a multimeter and soldering iron. 
I managed to build my original Mathos controller a couple of years back, That's the only electronic thing I've played with for ten years or so.

Cheers,
Smoko


----------



## zwitter

No worries Mark

I will get my board infront of me tonight and make some suggestions as to what to measure. The possible suspect is the transistor that switches the relay on and off.

There are jumpers for 5 and 12volts on some boards as there was a choice of relays way back. That will need to be set for 12v. But not sure if the shipped version had this soldered or not. Will check.

What version software is loaded in the Arduino?

Will probably PM you tonight.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

Lael/Zwitter/anyone else who might offer some tips

It seems my brauduino is suffering some issues
Today during the heat up to mash temps the screen went black/no power and nothing was being powered via the relays.
Quickly reverted to STC1000 temp control for now, so at least the brew day isnt 'dead'

Anyway, debugging the issue:

Pulling it apart and doing some diagnosis
- 12v power supply is working and supplying 12v (measured at both the power supply and the pin/header onto the board
- the arduino mega/board powers up fine via USB and goes through ArdBir boot screen to the menu
- via mains power the mega/board does not power up
- without the mega on the board, measuring the voltage at the 5v and 3.3v pins shows 0v

so without knowing the schematics of this board, it would seem that something between the 12v in and the power to the mega has failed

Any ideas where to look?
(sent a PM to lael about this also)


*******
And as a follow up
An hour or so later, powering it up and the board powers up from mains/12v on a first attempt but failed on subsequent power up attempts a minute later

So there is obviously some component or track which is border line working/ having issues when the temperature is raised or after being powered/under load for a period of time

Any ideas?


----------



## zwitter

Hi SBOB
Thats no good. I assume it hasbeen working for some months now?
The 12 v goes to the Arduino board and is stepped down on that board to the 5v. I would suspect could be the Arduino board. They do fail. If you have a spare you could swap but otherwise I will dig mine out tonight and send a few things to check first, i am away this weekend.

I killed my last Arduino Mega cause I put it back and got the pins wrong after helping another brewer with a problem, another $20 for a new one. The Arduino R3 will work with the current release of software.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

zwitter said:


> Hi SBOB
> Thats no good. I assume it hasbeen working for some months now?
> The 12 v goes to the Arduino board and is stepped down on that board to the 5v. I would suspect could be the Arduino board. They do fail. If you have a spare you could swap but otherwise I will dig mine out tonight and send a few things to check first, i am away this weekend.
> 
> I killed my last Arduino Mega cause I put it back and got the pins wrong after helping another brewer with a problem, another $20 for a new one. The Arduino R3 will work with the current release of software.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



nope, been working fine up until todays brew (but thats only like 2 brews)

The fact the arduino powers up fine via USB led me (possibly wrongly) to believe it was an issue with the connection board, but I guess it could be the arduino's 12v->5v circuitry thats the issue 


Do you know what pins on the board carry the 12v to the arduino?
If the 12v power goes straight from board to the arduino mega (and there isnt something which prevents the voltage on the pins without a mega attached) i should be able to verify the 12v is getting to the pins to power the arduino as a start


----------



## SBOB

checked the 'Vin' pin which is the pin which should have 12v on it and it doesnt measure any voltage, but not sure if it only powers that pin when there is a load/board attached or it should always be 12v with respect to gnd

**
as another test I powered the arduino via USB and the rest of the system via 240/12v supply and it works as expected
- arduino powers up and boots via USB.
- control of manual heater function operates SSR
- 240v is passed from inlet to outlet

So to me that says arduino is functioning and either

1) arduino's 12v->5v conversion has failed/blown (possibly due to power supply giving it more than 12v at some stage and causing it issues)
or
2) board connection from 12v in to the 12v to the arduino has failed somewhere

not sure how I diagnose whether its 1 or 2


----------



## zwitter

Hi SBOB

Well the 12v goes directly from the power in socket on the shield board to a capacitor and then around the edge of the board directly to the Vin pin. So not much to go wrong there.

So there could be a few explanations for the problem
1 the power in circuitry on the Mega is at fault
2 the solder on the socket or the Vin pin is poor and needs to be re- flowed
3 power socket not making good connection
4 the Arduino power Vin pin not making good connection
5 are you using plastic standoffs? As the power track runs under the standoffs and if plastic no problem. But if brass or steel standoffs then they could rub on the track and potentially break the track or could short the track with a cover or another track? I recommend ONLY plastic screws and standoffs to be used.
6 the track could be damaged.

Take a close look and see what you can find.


James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

Thanks.. Away for work for a few days so I'll check those suggestions when I'm back


----------



## A.B.

maybe a bargain for those in the thread:

https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/245358

Arduino UNO R3 + 2.4 Inch TFT LCD Touch Screen shield AU_$15.36_ (with code) and free shipping


----------



## CoxR

Hi guys, I have the controller from the initial shipment and have never used it, I have had it wired by an electrician and is ready to go but just have not gotten around to re terminating my plus for the element and pump with the supplied connectors.
Anyway my brewery is expanding and am now heading down the 3 or 4 V HERMS road. Right now I have all the gear I need PID's and enclosure to start building a control panel for the new rig, so the question is should I try to incorporate this controller or pass on the never used but fully wired controller for the original purchase price?
Cheers gents.


----------



## terragady

Hi guys, I am building the controller (ardbir, brauduino) with designing my own PCB board. I am really confused with used MOSFETs and transistors.
On one board, the earliest ones, there are only transistors - BC337 exactly. Later on some of them were changed for MOSFETs for example IRFZ44N which in my opinion is quite bad choice for arduino because its Vgs is 10-20V which arduino obviously cannot give (GTO board, Q3 and Q4). Sometimes there is resistor between arduino pin and MOSFET, sometimes there is no but is from pin to GND connection with resistor. Finally on some there are both resistors existing, from pin to MOSFET and from pin to GND. What I should choose? Basically I would like to keep BC337 everywhere (buzzer, SRR Heater) but change it form something more powerful to drive a small pump (max 0,7A 12V) directly from board not using relay. 












View attachment OpnArdBir - Bom.bmp


----------



## dblunn

Why don't you use 2N7000 for the low current (200mA) and IRF510 (5A) for the bigger stuff. They are both enhancement mode FETs so you don't need any current limiting resistors between the Arduino pin and the gate of the device. The single sided board looks easier to make, 
Dave


----------



## terragady

hmm ok, but isn't BC337 rated with higher current? 800mA? Woudn't it be better? If not, is 200mA enough for standard 12V buzzer and SSR for heater? So how to wire them? Seems like the middle option should be best (from my drawing)? Or I can skipp the connection to GND or it is required? What resistor to use there (if to use)? 1M?

2 layer PCB is not a problem since I will be sending it to a PCB house 


Oh and which buzzer to pick? SImple 12V piezo is fine or I need active buzzer with built in oscilator?


----------



## terragady

oh and just realized that probably logic level FET's will be better? Less heat etc? Some from IRL family?


----------



## dblunn

Enhancement mode FETs are easy to use, the have virtually no current flow into the gate so you can just connect them straight to the output pin of the mpu. I can't remember what the current draw of the SSR is but it is just a opto-isolator so 20mA would be plenty I think. Jaycar sell the 2N7000 for 75c so they a cheap and easy to get. I've never had pcbs made before, is it expensive and difficult?
Dave


----------



## terragady

I am paying for PCBs 17-20$ for 10pcs.
And I am ordering FETs from china anyway so I can choose which I want 

I thought that logic level are better than enhancement because they work the same way just need less potential to "activate" the MOSFET? Where usually 4-5V is enough whereas in standard mode you can use 5V sometimes but it won't give you best current flow and it will heat more. For small stuff you are right I will probably choose something like 2n7000 

About the resistor as on 2nd example, is not it for discharging whatever left on MOSFET?

How about buzzer? Active or Passive? They are 50c so maybe I will just order 2 and check


----------



## dblunn

I don't think you have to worry about discharging the voltage on the gate of the fet, writing a low to port of the mcu will take care of that. What is the difference between active and passive buzzers? Do you have to pulse one type?
Dave


----------



## terragady

basically with passive buzzer arduino needs to send a "tone" frequency, so you have to program it and you can have many sounds with different frequencies, you can play some melody, but this buzzer will not play if you only connect it +12 and GND. Active has built in oscilator (sound generator) which doesnt need any signal from arduino, only on and off, and it will play connected to +12 and GND (it will only make "beeeep")


----------



## SBOB

zwitter said:


> Hi SBOB
> 
> Well the 12v goes directly from the power in socket on the shield board to a capacitor and then around the edge of the board directly to the Vin pin. So not much to go wrong there.


Taking a look at this now,

Doing a bit of continuity testing of the board, without the mega attached I can see that
- I have connectivity between the incoming +12v socket pin on the board and the VIN pin going to the mega,
- but not with the -12v pin to the GND pin going to the mega

on a voltage measurement I seem to be seeing the same +12v at both the GND and the VIN pins with respect to the incoming -12v from the power supply, both with and without the Mega attached (and verified 12v at power supply)

I cant see the tracks leading to these pins, but I would expect that seeing the same reference voltage on both GND and VIN pins to the mega would be the issue, but I am not sure where I can determine the cause of this issue is coming from

I also get positive continuity between the +12v and GND but only occasionally (like after I have not tested for a minute).. This could be capacitor behaviour but I dont remember my uni electronics course that well


Answers to other questions below for further info



zwitter said:


> 1 the power in circuitry on the Mega is at fault


possible. It powers fine via the 5v USB power but I dont have an alternate 12v source to try with 




zwitter said:


> 2 the solder on the socket or the Vin pin is poor and needs to be re- flowed


The socket seems to be fine based on a multimeter continuity test from pins to the solder below and a visual inspection as well as testing the Vin pin v pad



zwitter said:


> 3 power socket not making good connection


The connection seems fine based on continuity test between power supply, socket and solder connection under pin 




zwitter said:


> 4 the Arduino power Vin pin not making good connection


Doesnt seem to be the case based on test between 12v in pin and Vin solder point on based on Mega when board attached or the GND between under the board the the GND solder point on the Mega (cant find another point on the board to ref GND from)




zwitter said:


> 5 are you using plastic standoffs? As the power track runs under the standoffs and if plastic no problem. But if brass or steel standoffs then they could rub on the track and potentially break the track or could short the track with a cover or another track? I recommend ONLY plastic screws and standoffs to be used.


As per the kit, so yep, plastic standoffs but the screws supplied were metal




zwitter said:


> 6 the track could be damaged.


cant visually see the track which goes from +/- 12V to the VIN/GND connection to the mega



Zwitter/Lael,
Any ideas how I can go about resolving this based on the info above?

And as a separate query
Is the +/- 12v used anywhere else on the board apart from going directly to the Mega? If this 12v is removed and the mega powered via its own power inputs, should all the other functionality work as expected??


----------



## zwitter

Hi SBOB

Your terminology makes me laugh and cringe all at once!

-12 as you call it is actually 0v or gnd or common. 

Yes the cap will / can stuff up your measurements as it charges from the voltmeter when you measure.

The 12 v does go to the transistor that drives the relay and maybe the buzzer to.

Would help if you answered all the questions I asked. This is not a complex board so the easy bits to check are often the cause. I have seen huge networks brought undone due to the simplest little thing....

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## SBOB

zwitter said:


> Hi SBOB
> 
> Your terminology makes me laugh and cringe all at once!
> 
> -12 as you call it is actually 0v or gnd or common.


cringe away.. i probably should have written the points in more engineering terms but was just trying to get the points across
considering im a control systems engineer (but more code/telemetry than electronics...in fact, 0 electronics) but its a weekend so i was lazy and just trying to dump a bunch of info that hopefully you or lael might be able to point me in a 'fix' direction...
I'm assuming these things don't come with any kind of 'warranty' so its currently a pretty expensive controller thats lasted 2 brews 




zwitter said:


> The 12 v does go to the transistor that drives the relay and maybe the buzzer to.
> 
> Would help if you answered all the questions I asked. This is not a complex board so the easy bits to check are often the cause. I have seen huge networks brought undone due to the simplest little thing....


i dont think i missed any? which question did i miss (apart from not having an alternate 12v power supply to try and power the mega with but via the VIN/GND pins)

I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be seeing a +12v reference on both the 'Vin' and 'GND' pins to the Mega with reference to the 12v power supplies GND
(this occurs both with and without the mega on board, so that should rule out any 'issue' on the mega I would think)


there doesn't appear to be any damage to the board, but i'm unable to remove the screen to visually inspect the bottom of the board, but its been mounted from day 1 and not moved) so what could possibly cause 
- seeing +12v on both Vin and GND pins on the board (without the mega attached)
- seeing no continuity between Vin and GND under normal conditions
- seeing no continuity between GND input on board and GND pin to mega (i would have assumed a common GND but dont not sure)


----------



## zwitter

Hi SBOB

There are many GND pins on the Arduino R3 and even more on a MEGA I suggest you print a page like this http://pighixxx.com/unov3pdf.pdf

The actual input we use is called Vin and is connected to the power in socket (green 2 pin at the left hand bottom corner of the shield board) + pin.
Next to the Vin pin on the Arduino are 2 GND pins and the next pin is +5V and next to that a +3.3V pin.
There are other GND and +5v pins but not used by our circuit. The GND pin on the opposite side of the Arduino is not connected to anything on our board.
You should have continuity from the power in + pin to the Vin pin on the Arduino and also continuity for the power in - (ground, 0V) pin to the two GND pins next to the Vin pin on the Arduino socket.
Depending on your dexterity with the volt meter you can either measure this with or with out the Arduino plugged in and power on or off but there are risks. if you short out these pins things break.

I will point out I did not design this board, I did have some input into the design but did not do the layout and I would have done some of it a little differently but the board does work.

As far as a warranty. No this was a group buy. I know the time and money expensed by members of the team who put this together and trust me it made a huge loss. 

I personally have assisted any member who asks to resolve their problems. I can answer many questions and *will repair any unit sent to me within reason*. I have as mentioned in this thread blown up my own unit a few times in the pursuit of assisting others.

I had to buy an additional Arduino Mega as I, just once, plugged it in incorrectly following testing for a fellow member. I have a pile of non functional Arduinos from this project. And temp probes. It was my design change that has saved all of you from suffering the same fate.

I have been crazy busy at work with ISO audits etc but may have some time in the next week if you want to contact me and can see what we can arrange to help sort this problem.

james


----------



## zwitter

Hi all Braumiser controller users. I have seen a few people blow up an Arduino or more and thought this article may point out just how fragile they can be.
http://www.rugged-circuits.com/10-ways-to-destroy-an-arduino/
Those guys make a "tougher" version but as the R3 can be bought for $6 and a MEGA delivered for $17 in a couple of days probably not worth while.

It is worth noting plugging the USB in to an Arduino while it is connected to the rest of the controller is not a good practice and may cause problems. Probably better to unplug it for programming or potentially have the controller powered from its own 12v supply but that too may have issues. I personally remove the Arduino and program then plug back into the controller.

james


----------



## SBOB

zwitter said:


> Hi SBOB
> 
> There are many GND pins on the Arduino R3 and even more on a MEGA I suggest you print a page like this http://pighixxx.com/unov3pdf.pdf
> 
> The actual input we use is called Vin and is connected to the power in socket (green 2 pin at the left hand bottom corner of the shield board) + pin.
> Next to the Vin pin on the Arduino are 2 GND pins and the next pin is +5V and next to that a +3.3V pin.
> 
> As far as a warranty. No this was a group buy. I know the time and money expensed by members of the team who put this together and trust me it made a huge loss.
> 
> I personally have assisted any member who asks to resolve their problems. I can answer many questions and *will repair any unit sent to me within reason*. I have as mentioned in this thread blown up my own unit a few times in the pursuit of assisting others.
> 
> I have been crazy busy at work with ISO audits etc but may have some time in the next week if you want to contact me and can see what we can arrange to help sort this problem.


Thanks for the assistance Zwitter
I've also been in contact with Lael debugging some of the issues as he got in contact with me yesterday
From another testing it shouldn't be an arduino issue as I have powered it directly via Vin/GND pin connections to the 12v power supply without issue (while not on the board).

The fact I see +12v on both the Vin and GND pins on the arduino board ,and no continuity between 0V power socket and the Arduino GND makes me unsure where in the simple path the issue could be coming from.

Hopefully I wont need to take you up on your repair offers, but might if the problem solving doesn't identify the problem


----------



## marksy

SBOB said:


> Thanks for the assistance Zwitter
> I've also been in contact with Lael debugging some of the issues as he got in contact with me yesterday
> From another testing it shouldn't be an arduino issue as I have powered it directly via Vin/GND pin connections to the 12v power supply without issue (while not on the board).
> 
> The fact I see +12v on both the Vin and GND pins on the arduino board ,and no continuity between 0V power socket and the Arduino GND makes me unsure where in the simple path the issue could be coming from.
> 
> Hopefully I wont need to take you up on your repair offers, but might if the problem solving doesn't identify the problem



What do you get if you measure GND (DC side) from PSU to the GND that you are finding 12V on?


----------



## kwinchee

HI guys 
Im racking my head going crazy with this one
I have an older version of the controller I was given by a member here. 2.1 pcb

I have everything going and it all seems to wok except the temp.
on ardbir it always reads 90.00 and on the old brauduino firmware always 85.00

However if I use the 1wire dallas sample sketch and set it to pin 11 the temp readings start rolling in (no changes to wiring) so everything appears to work.

The sample sketch reports I have a DS18B20

Ive tried searching to no avail! please help my STC1000 shit itself so this is my top priority now


----------



## dblunn

I think 85C is the default reading when no measurement was actually made, however the test sketch seems ok? Check your board (hardware) profiles on the firmware build. It could be for a different board and using the wrong pin to read it. Also check the data line to the probe has a 4.7k (or there abouts) pullup to 5V, maybe it is a parasitic/Active mode issue.


----------



## zwitter

Hi kwinchee
Dblunn is correct. If you get 85 it usually means you have let the smoke escape and you need a new probe. But if the onewire shows correct temp then that will not be the case.

I assume you are trying to upgrade the firmware to the latest ArdBir release. When you go to compile there are some directives that need to be set for language and LCD size and PCB!
My guess is that either the board you have uses a different pin for the temp or that you are selecting the wrong board for the hardware you have. I do not have a list of the pins per option but there have been lots of different ones. I think the matho one is original? I do not think we have changed in the land of OZ. but you could search the sketch to see in the pcb selection section which one selects which pin. 

I do not think it is a serious problem but I would disconnect the pump and element while you figure it out.

There were some text bugs in the last version I loaded but it still works OK.

I have a pile of dead temp probes from the early testing.

Cheers
James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Duplicate


----------



## kwinchee

Hmmm, I have triple checked all the pin configurations in the sketch 
Its 11 for the probe and all the buttons and leds work so Im really stumped

If I set the dallas test sketch to pin 11 and I open serial monitor I see temp readings popping up constantly and if I hold the probe the temp changes.
But when I set any of the ArdBir or Brauduino or Brewmanic sketches for temp on pin 11 I just get the constant value.

I have the wires from the probe +:red d:yellow -:black

Could I make it use less bits?


----------



## SBOB

marksy said:


> What do you get if you measure GND (DC side) from PSU to the GND that you are finding 12V on?


Thats where I was seeing 12v, BUT

I power it up today to double check and it powers up today.
Today, I see +12v/0V on the Vin/GND pins, along with continuity between +12V socket and VIN and 0v socket and GND (whereas previously there was no continuity on the GND side and I was seeing a +12V reference on both VIN and GND with respect to the DC power supplies 0V)

Crazy and no idea what that means in regards to the board circuit, or what could be causing a fault thats intermittent


----------



## Mardoo

Is it a BCAK issue?


----------



## SBOB

Mardoo said:


> Is it a BCAK issue?


I think you mean pebcak issue and nope.. This isn't the how to wire a pid thread


----------



## dblunn

kwinchee said:


> Hmmm, I have triple checked all the pin configurations in the sketch
> Its 11 for the probe and all the buttons and leds work so Im really stumped
> 
> If I set the dallas test sketch to pin 11 and I open serial monitor I see temp readings popping up constantly and if I hold the probe the temp changes.
> But when I set any of the ArdBir or Brauduino or Brewmanic sketches for temp on pin 11 I just get the constant value.
> 
> I have the wires from the probe +:red d:yellow -:black
> 
> Could I make it use less bits?


Could it be something as strange as too much capacitance on your wiring such that the probe can't keep up? Perhaps the probe is responding but has not made/completed a measurement so responds with the default value. Can you check to code and maybe slow the 1-wire it down a little.
Dave


----------



## zwitter

Hey dblunn

Adding the serial monitor will significantly slow the program down in the Arduino. Do you have a second temp probe? Try a swap.
Do you have an osciliscope? Could watch the line and see the data ?
I guess the timing might be an issue but if you have not changed the sketch then it should work.
Have you tried a different arduino?
Is the pull up resistor on the board?
These things can cause issues when you are prototyping but generally they are simple and faults tend to be things you have forgotten or overlooked.

It is really hard to suggest much more. 
I have just chucked the old ones when I get the 85 and replace and they work.


I have built a brewpi and it allows the temp probes to be wired in parallel and then use the unique address of each to distinguish the readings, really cool. Just add another and name it.

James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## terragady

Hey, just a though,

can you use ESP8266 (or any board with it with usb and pinheads) instead of Arduino? This will be great as it has more memory and WiFi capability so you can send everything to the net to for example graph the temps


----------



## MastersBrewery

terragady said:


> Hey, just a though,
> 
> can you use ESP8266 (or any board with it with usb and pinheads) instead of Arduino? This will be great as it has more memory and WiFi capability so you can send everything to the net to for example graph the temps


The esp8266 shield does not replace the arduino, it can be added by stacking on to or wiring to the arduino. There is a thread on here somewhere where the esp8266 has been used for brewpi. Can't link from the phone sorry.


----------



## terragady

my point is that it has GPIOs , has even more memory than arduino and is capable of running on same software plus something which willl utilize the WiFi capability. Because from what I have seen on instructables you can use it in the same way as Arduino. Of course you will need new PCB or cable connectors to existing boards.


----------



## MastersBrewery

terragady said:


> my point is that it has GPIOs , has even more memory than arduino and is capable of running on same software plus something which willl utilize the WiFi capability. Because from what I have seen on instructables you can use it in the same way as Arduino. Of course you will need new PCB or cable connectors to existing boards.


ok so your talking a specific board the WesMos D1.
Yup nice piece of kit but note it has only one analog pin. Now I don't remember pin assignments off the top of my head but I dare say you'd need to play a little with what is going where. And that particular board would not work with brewpi (chip set thing).


----------



## terragady

you need analog for buttons and LCD, but both can be connected for example via I2C protocol/connector and its pretty straightforward. I think http://vito.tw/ is using I2C for LCD but probably not for buttons, anyway there is an shield with LCD and buttons where only 2 pins are required from uC (thats I2C pins). 

I was not talking about specific WesMos although I have D2 mini. Any ESP module has those GPIOs etc, so the board like WesMos is only for simplicity and provide USB programmer, other potentials etc, but of course you can use just simple ESP naked module, but thats harder to wire.


----------



## gap

I had my controller wired up ,except for the sensor as I required a different sensor for my HERMS system.
It was working ok, ie could program it etc.

Removed the cover to wire up a new sensor and tested again.
With 240v tall I got was a lit but blank screen.

Disconnected the 240v from the front of the controller and powered up using USB.

Now get the image above. 2 rows of white blocks.

Any clues???


----------



## zwitter

Hi gap
Yep I have had that too at one time or other.

I would suggest lots of checking
Check that the arduino is plugged in correctly to the shield. I plugged mine in backwards after pulling it off to answer a question and put it backwards and never to work again. 
Check the power to the board
Check the 5v
Check the leds on the arduino
Can try reprogramming the arduino

I think the probable fix will be a new arduino. They are reasonably robust but they can be killed with static, or plugging in the wrong way etc. I have seen a soldering iron kill things as the tip is generally grounded and if the board has leakage to another circuit it will blow stuff up.

I have piles of arduinos here and last knight i pulled 2 brand new ones out of the packet and one will not accept program at all! The other is not running correctly. They are cheap ones ex china and I guess you get what you pay for.

Depending on your level of skill and available tools And location I am happy to assist in fault finding.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## MastersBrewery

Has the back light POT been adjusted?


----------



## gap

MastersBrewery said:


> Has the back light POT been adjusted?


Yes it was the first thing I checked but I will check it again tonight.

Thanks for the reply


----------



## gap

I have pulled it apart.
Disconnected from the 240v.
Disconnected the button leads
Tried to disconnect the lcd from the board without success.
I have just plugged it it in using USB and it worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will reassemble it in stages and test at each stage.

Hello James, missed seeing your reply. Thanks for the tips.
If I get into more trouble with it i will contact you.

Fingers crossed

Graeme


----------



## claypot

Hi all,
I've finally assembled my unit and its awesome, thanks to all involved!

For my build I require a longer temp probe, I gather it is a standard PT100 RTD?
So, does anyone know what the wiring configuration is to the audio connector jack? 
As I will most likely get the PT100 required and wire to the same style audio plug.
eg red wire to front, white to middle, black to back or the likes?

Cheers,
Clayton.


----------



## MastersBrewery

claypot said:


> Hi all,
> I've finally assembled my unit and its awesome, thanks to all involved!
> 
> For my build I require a longer temp probe, I gather it is a standard PT100 RTD?
> So, does anyone know what the wiring configuration is to the audio connector jack?
> As I will most likely get the PT100 required and wire to the same style audio plug.
> eg red wire to front, white to middle, black to back or the likes?
> 
> Cheers,
> Clayton.


 No mate, you need a ds18b20, that is unless you want to rewrite the software.

MB


----------



## claypot

Hey MB,
Cheers mate, nope don't fancy any software mods I have enough drama with English as a first language!

I had a quick look at ds18b20 probes and doesn't look like they are available at the length I need. 
So will have to come up with another option, most likely another probe into the top of the malt pipe. Then switch over for the boil.
I should of got the extra probe with the kit...
Do the pre made sensors with the 3.5mm audio jack all use the same wiring configuration?


----------



## MastersBrewery

claypot said:


> Hey MB,
> Cheers mate, nope don't fancy any software mods I have enough drama with English as a first language!
> 
> I had a quick look at ds18b20 probes and doesn't look like they are available at the length I need.
> So will have to come up with another option, most likely another probe into the top of the malt pipe. Then switch over for the boil.
> I should of got the extra probe with the kit...
> Do the pre made sensors with the 3.5mm audio jack all use the same wiring configuration?


 You could be in luck that fantastic piece of kit known as brewtroller has recently relaunched if they don't have probes in their store now they will soon. I'm on the phone right now but google brewtroller and you should be in business. Why the need for the long probe? Temp is best measured at the hotest liquor temp ie close to the element.

MB


----------



## claypot

Hey MB,

My rig is a bit different to others, I've got a 3kw coiled element in the middle of the kettle and the malt pipe sits over it.
The probe in the Brauduino (Matho’s Controller) kit isn't long enough to sit above the element.
So I don't think it would sense the temp of the wort flowing into the malt pipe as it passes the element as accurately as I would like. 
My build link here: http://aussiehomebre...83#entry1196086
And follow up with new malt pipe and top plate: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/57924-braumeister-nextgen-build/?p=1242570

Just checked out the brewtroller, looks pretty cool especially for people who now what their doing!
It gave me the idea of putting a shorter probe into a thermo well, so long as I can protect the cable from the heat.
Looking at those prices though you really get an appreciation for all the awesome work Lael has put in to the kit!


----------



## lael

Hi Clayton,

As long as you have sufficient wort movement you should find that your temperatures will be accurate. If you heat with only water in the pot, without any movement you will find you might get temperature stratification. Simply splashing the water around will show you roughly how much water movement you need. Normally it is not much.

I'm glad you like the kit!


----------



## zwitter

Hi Claypot
You can build your own probe depending on your skills.

The DS18b20 can be bought cheap as and then you get stainless pipe and get the end welded up and some thing on other end and put thermal grease on the sensor and push it all the way to the end of the closed tube and then fill behind it with silicone.

Put a plg on and bob is your fathers bother.


I have made several and in fact repaired a few after hooking them up incorrectly so replaced the sensor in the fittings.

There are places that can fabricate them for you but the cost gets outrageous fairly quickly.

James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## claypot

Hey Lael,
Cheers mate, yeah I guess I do have a lot of movement under the malt pipe with the whirlpool fitting, so maybe worrying about nothing.
I am chasing some crappy mash efficiencies though high 60% to low 70%.
Mashing low and high hasn't seemed to make a difference so probably not temp related.
I think using your kit with the pump rests will help.
I might experiment with my whirlpool fitting too, it may be sending preferential flow up the side due to centrifugal force..
I might do a mash with it removed.

Cheers James,
That sounds like the go. As my current rig has a 1/4 or 3/8 BSP (can't remember which) probe, I'm hoping to use the same welded in socket.
So I'll fabricate one as you suggested.
Can you confirm the wiring diagram for the 3.5mm audio jack I attached is correct for this application?

Thanks again,
Clayton


----------



## lael

I just had another look at your rig. It doesn't look like you've got any where near enough open space to let water permeate through the entire grain bed and back out easily - I would be replacing the plates with perf stainless if possible - just as a piece of advice from my experience - the bottom plate only needs to be strong enough to hold the weight of the grain when removing from the malt pipe. I believe that the top plate needs to be quite a bit stronger than the bottom one. Of course, having them the same makes it easier to use.

I would be looking at your grain crush as the 2nd most important factor - how are you cracking it?


----------



## claypot

Cheers mate, Yeah I was trying to do it on the cheap...
The bottom plate is just a mesh splatter screen which I thought would be o.k. But the slotted stainless plate at the top doesn't allow as much flow as perf plate I agree. Might have to part with some cash..

I'm using a mashmaster mill with the motion dynamics motor.
I originally set the mill to 1.2mm and checked it last brew and found it was around 1.1mm so set it back to 1.2mm and seemed a bit better as far as the flow and grain compaction went.


----------



## lael

Yeah, my builds were painful for the hip pocket. The first time I decided to drill the holes in the plate... A sore arm, three afternoons and something like 500 holes later I decided that was stupid. 

Whereabouts are you located?
edit: do you have the new fluted rollers? I've got the knurled ones and tempted to upgrade... The crush I saw come out of some of the fluted ones looked amazing.


----------



## SBOB

claypot said:


> But the slotted stainless plate at the top doesn't allow as much flow as perf plate I agree. Might have to part with some cash..


or just wait till Lael does a pot/malt-pipe/perf-sheet bulk buy... i think its planned for 2018


----------



## claypot

lael said:


> Yeah, my builds were painful for the hip pocket. The first time I decided to drill the holes in the plate... A sore arm, three afternoons and something like 500 holes later I decided that was stupid.
> 
> Whereabouts are you located?
> edit: do you have the new fluted rollers? I've got the knurled ones and tempted to upgrade... The crush I saw come out of some of the fluted ones looked amazing.


Na just the knurled ones, just checked out the fluted ones - I better hurry up and wear out my knurled ones so I can upgrade!
I'm in Adelaide, Hand drilling the perf plate... I bet you have fond memories of that!! I think I'll buy some!
I don't want to commit to much more cash to this build as I want to build a larger one now!



SBOB said:


> or just wait till Lael does a pot/malt-pipe/perf-sheet bulk buy... i think its planned for 2018


Baa, I was going to ask about that but didn't want to bust his balls after all the good work put in on the kit!
But surly the bulk buy bug has returned.
I'll have a 50 litre kit thanks!


----------



## jerchappy

Hi all. I have shelved this project for the best part of a year despite being largely finished with the purchase of a braumeister malt pipe. This has partially been due to being too embarrassed to fessing up!

I finsihed wiring my controller and whilst patiently waiting for my sparky friend to make some time to come around for a look I, in a moment of insanity/impatience turned the power on. There was intiallly some smoke coming froim the box (not sure where from). Upon examining I found that I had somehow reversed the polarity on the 12v power from the power supply to the board. After correcting, all I get is a flickering blue screen. Also, on disconnecting all other cables other thatn the 12v the flickering blue screen remains.

On powering from 5v usb ARDBIR boots as normal- running automatic mode will turn on both leds as well as the indicator lights on the SSRS

However running in manual mode the green pump light will not turn on despite the letter P appearing on the screen.

I am trying to work out how to trouble shoot this- I would imagine replacing the arduino and maybe the mega will hopefully correct the problem. I am not sure about the rest- I suspect the power supply may need replacing as well?

Does anyone have any thoughts for this goose of a man?

Cheers, Jerome.

BTW my sparky friend did come round later on and was happy with the 240v stuff and gave me a stern lecturing and a laugh at my expense


----------



## claypot

Scrambling screen??

Hey all I have been dragging the chain getting my unit set up but finally have it running. 
I have suffered the fateful scrambled screen. First brew I had to power down then back up several times, bugger. 
It only happens when the heating is on and pump starts or stops as has been mentioned here.
I am using a chugger 240v pump.
I removed the cover and separated the 240v from 12v and run with the cover off but still same issue.
I am happy to rewire the pump via the second SSR via 12v from the board as I won't need a second element. BUT does anyone know if this is a sure fix for this problem as I am pretty time poor at the moment. Or is the problem likely something else?
Thanks again,
Clayton.


----------



## terragady

are you using any relay which is not SSR? This might cause the problem.


----------



## claypot

terragady said:


> are you using any relay which is not SSR? This might cause the problem.


Hey teragady,
I'm using the on-board 12v / 240v relay to power the pump, as it was designed, so you could use 12v or 240v pumps I believe.
cheers


----------



## malt junkie

Yeah your SSR is wired incorrectly, have this checked by sparky. The screen scramble should be sorted with some judicious cable management, also (as pictured) use the bottom power sockets as they are further from the arduino.

cheers

Mike


----------



## claypot

malt junkie said:


> Yeah your SSR is wired incorrectly, have this checked by sparky. The screen scramble should be sorted with some judicious cable management, also (as pictured) use the bottom power sockets as they are further from the arduino.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Mike


Hey Mike,
Cheers for the reply. Just looked at the pic myself, it's pretty miss leading!
Looks like the wiring is wrong and burnt! Due to poor light. I'll attach a better pic.
I'm confident the SSR is correctly wired.
The only thing I've done different is have the 12v transformer, 240v input come from input of 240v to the SSR. Possibly causing more interference than coming off the main 240v input post.

As mentioned I run the unit with the face plate off as per the attached pic. There was plenty of separation from the 240v and still scrambled. If the proximity of the 240v wiring to the arduino was at fault I wouldn't of expected to get the scrambling when the cover was removed.

I'm wondering if it is due to the chugger pump drawing 1.9amp? I guess most people are using a kegking pump that draws 1.1amp. Still not much as the pump relay is rated to 5amp. But by a percentage it's a lot more draw than the kegking pump.

As mentioned this only happens when the pump is activated or stopped during heating.

Any further help greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Clayton.


----------



## malt junkie

Ahh much better photo! For me I'd prefer to see the power for the 12v come directly from the input, and the power for the pump relay come from the hot side of the SSR. I don't know that this will fix your issue but certainly can't hurt. I wouldn't have either relay between the 12v and the power source(on any circuit). Remember the SSR is switching on and off at a pretty decent clip and may create "noise", pump motor may also create some noise. 

The chugger should be fine, Lael uses one and he also tested with the march, and KK. The other solution is to use the second SSR to switch the pump (use the on board relay to switch 12v to the SSR).

Hopefully some tweaking gets you there.

I have one of matho's original boards on a big brauclone and I'm just starting to pull kit together to use Lael's kit on it's little brother using a 20L Braumeister Malt pipe, see how things go.

Mike


----------



## zwitter

Hi Claypot

The scrambling was really sorted in these kits. Generally by separation of wiring and the snubber cap and resistor on the board. 

I use a chugger too. 

In mine i actually fitted a small SSR and removed the relay from the board. I took photos and documented and posted it on AHB. I have the second big SSR so I can use an over the side element to improve heat up times.

I can dig out that info and send to you if you like or depending on where you are can discuss other options. The SSR came from Jaycar.

You could use the second big SSR and it will work just fine. You,can just use the relay to switch 12v and the t will switch the SSR. 

I have never had scrambling since swapping the relay out but dont think ever had it on this controller anyway. I changed to SSR in response for a show and tell on how to do it.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

zwitter said:


> Hi Claypot
> 
> The scrambling was really sorted in these kits. Generally by separation of wiring and the snubber cap and resistor on the board.
> 
> I use a chugger too.
> 
> In mine i actually fitted a small SSR and removed the relay from the board. I took photos and documented and posted it on AHB. I have the second big SSR so I can use an over the side element to improve heat up times.
> 
> I can dig out that info and send to you if you like or depending on where you are can discuss other options. The SSR came from Jaycar.
> 
> You could use the second big SSR and it will work just fine. You,can just use the relay to switch 12v and the t will switch the SSR.
> 
> I have never had scrambling since swapping the relay out but dont think ever had it on this controller anyway. I changed to SSR in response for a show and tell on how to do it.
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hey Zwitter,
was that a straight drop in, just in case you understand 

Mike


----------



## zwitter

Hi Malt Junkie

Nah, I do not understand....

The SSR was certainly not tough to fit. It has 4 legs and I just connected short lengths of wire and heat shrink to insulate then pulled the relay out of the board and put the wires into the holes where relay used to be. As it is only switching the chugger it does not need a heatsink. I think all up it took about an hour and cost less than $20. 

I have an original matho and then purchased several kits since and extra boards etc but only one system. And the original never gave me grief ever.

I have blown up several Arduinos, usually while doing testing for other people but hey I learn something everytime.

I currently have 2 raspberry pi on my home network providing bluetooth connectivity for my brewpi fermentation controller and also another providing 608mhz connection to a power, heat, humidity, voltage monitor. So I am a bit of a electronics nut from way back and still into projects. I buy arduinos in bulk and always have bits on the way from China to mess with.

In the brew controller there was a lot of compromises so it would do more so the market was bigger and simpler to apply to peoples setups. One of those was the relay so it could do 12v and 240v pumps. It does work but some have seen the scrambling. I asked the ArdBir team to insert a screen refresh every so often or after a relay switch but was too hard. That would have solved the issue as well. The controller can be turned off and recover though so was not a complete nightmare when it happened.

I have always offered assistance to repair or diagnose these units. I can not replace components that have died due to negligence etc. every system was powered on and the basics tested before shipping.

Regards

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

zwitter said:


> every system was powered on and the basics tested before shipping.


I remember I was there, mine was the oaked stout. I still have my original, one of the first ten. Hasn't skipped a beat but the controller is in it's own box with 12v and signals to 3 SSRs running over cat5 so scrambling has never been an issue. I have melted a few SSRs but I think my heatsink may have been a bit under rated. I'm considering a full rebuild of that controller soon so it's rock solid.


----------



## malt junkie

Opps actually I think it was the coffee stout, all that bubble wrap screws and wires who can remember the finer details.


----------



## claypot

Hey Mike and James,
Thanks heaps for the feed back.

Sorry James I did see the post about posting the fitting of the jaycar SSR to the board but couldn't track down the pics.
that's a good idea to just run wires to it from the board. I gather a solder sucker would be required.

I've shortened up the 12v wires on mine now, I had them long to allow the cover to be removed easily. 
I haven't brewed with it yet and bench testing seems to be o.k.

I agree this project has been a great learning activity, manually tuning the PID has been a good learning too. Prior I was using Auber auto tune PIDs.

Does anyone know when the screen scrambles, if the controller will continue its process normally?

Thanks again guys.


----------



## malt junkie

A screen scramble only affects the print out on the screen, and if your like me,after mash in, I walk away and mow the lawn or play cricket with my son until it's time to pull the malt pipe, so the info on the screen means little. Arduino are a solid micro controller, I've probably done 100 brews on my original controller and the only stuff ups have been due human error, and nothing to do with the controller.

cheers
Mike


----------



## claypot

malt junkie said:


> A screen scramble only affects the print out on the screen, and if your like me,after mash in, I walk away and mow the lawn or play cricket with my son until it's time to pull the malt pipe, so the info on the screen means little. Arduino are a solid micro controller, I've probably done 100 brews on my original controller and the only stuff ups have been due human error, and nothing to do with the controller.
> 
> cheers
> Mike


Sweet cheers, Mike. Yep I'm the same.
Yeah I'm pretty happy with it now that I've set up the PID correctly, great bit of gear!
Cheers to all involved!


----------



## zwitter

Hi Claypot
Yep the controller keeps going. Just does not tell you what it is doing.

Yeah sorry Malt Junkie that day was a bit of a blur. A good blur but still a blur. Actually my tape guns are still at Laels.

Mine has never scambled and now with the SSR probably never will. My only issue is flow through the mash. Just keeps blocking up and then bending the top mesh and making a big mess. I plan a brew this sat with rice hulls so will see how it goes, maybe will mod the plumbing a little too.

James
Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

Yeah I've had my 2mm plates starting to flex at times, though I think I've got my crush spot on now so not really an issue unless I really push the malt bill up. Here's hoping the rice hulls help you out. I of course have the advantage of a second huge malt pipe and that one I have never really tried to push buit I'd say 20kg of malt wouldn't be a drama.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Malt Junkie
I have 2 malt pipes too. One is the Big W19 litre and I have a second that is slightly smaller diameter but about 1.5 times taller and probably fit huge amount in that too.
Problem is it just that it all gets compressed at the top and blocks up sometimes I have wort fountains. I plan to increase the gap in the malt mill and add rice hulls and see how it goes as I have plans for a RIS and that will max the grain bill

James
Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## claypot

zwitter said:


> Hi Malt Junkie
> I have 2 malt pipes too. One is the Big W19 litre and I have a second that is slightly smaller diameter but about 1.5 times taller and probably fit huge amount in that too.
> Problem is it just that it all gets compressed at the top and blocks up sometimes I have wort fountains. I plan to increase the gap in the malt mill and add rice hulls and see how it goes as I have plans for a RIS and that will max the grain bill
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Yep I'm having the same drama.
I've tried running the mash with the flow from the chugger pump choked in on a ball valve - only open 15% or so and have no drama with grain compaction / wort fountains.
I thought that having less flow would mean a drop in efficiency but that doesn't seem to be the case. Every time I try to sneak the flow up it inevitably ends in tears! I've also just started using an Ikea splatter screen as the only top plate, the flow through the bed is awesome but is fraught with danger. 
It think it would be good if you could fit a pressure switch to the pump outlet that stops the pump for 2 minutes at a predetermined pressure to avoid blow outs and re settle the grain bed.
The other thing I've noticed is that with the chugger pump at full flow there is no need for a malt pipe seal as the leakage is minimal and there is still enough pressure to push through the bed.


----------



## freelander2002

Hi all  

Controller works perfect and extremly happy with it... However..... I see the Grainfater promotes a version with bluetooth and the pissabollty to load recepies from ex Beersmith.... Anyone know what board and so on they use ? and if its possible to implement with the Brauduino ?


----------



## malt junkie

The hardware side is available, the software hasn't been written for this implementation. There is software for the ArdBir board for wifi (no integration of Beersmith) however simple web based control of the unit. (so anything with a browser on the network). Note the wifi implementation uses unique software on the controller itself, the controller is then connected to a Wes Mos D1 and that handles the server and wifi (though with very limited space). The pinout on our board is different to the board this software was written. I was looking at seeing if I could port it to support our board over the coming summer.

I have no idea what GF have done with their board, and probably a quick rewire to your hardware with their controller would work.

Mike


----------



## lehtinel

I've got a strange problem with my controller. Cant run newer versions, like 2.8.3RC on it. The PWM menu shows no values, so I am unable to do adjustments. With 2.6.62 I can do them just fine. Any ideas? I have a 16x2 screen and all setup adjustments are equal with both versions.


----------



## MitchD

I had the same problem. It's in the way they coded the display, the value characters are off the side. I changed the language setting to Italian, set my parameters then reflashed it to English. Eventually I just upgraded to the 20*4 screen


----------



## lehtinel

MitchD said:


> I had the same problem. It's in the way they coded the display, the value characters are off the side. I changed the language setting to Italian, set my parameters then reflashed it to English. Eventually I just upgraded to the 20*4 screen


Ah, figures. Not a big deal, gonna see about updating the screen. Not a priority though - beer comes first


----------



## terragady

You can use this software https://github.com/mbroek/MBSE-ArdRims
it is more optimized and no problems with language, characters etc


----------



## lehtinel

terragady said:


> You can use this software https://github.com/mbroek/MBSE-ArdRims
> it is more optimized and no problems with language, characters etc


Sure, an alternative, for a controller with a 20x4 screen. Not sure if one would fit in my box as I have the buttons quite close to the screen.


----------



## claypot

claypot said:


> Scrambling screen??
> 
> Hey all I have been dragging the chain getting my unit set up but finally have it running.
> I have suffered the fateful scrambled screen. First brew I had to power down then back up several times, bugger.
> It only happens when the heating is on and pump starts or stops as has been mentioned here.
> I am using a chugger 240v pump.
> I removed the cover and separated the 240v from 12v and run with the cover off but still same issue.
> I am happy to rewire the pump via the second SSR via 12v from the board as I won't need a second element. BUT does anyone know if this is a sure fix for this problem as I am pretty time poor at the moment. Or is the problem likely something else?
> Thanks again,
> Clayton.


Hey all, Just a follow up on the above.
I fitted a small SSR via the relay to switch the pump and haven't had any screen scrambles since. (as per Zwitters instructions / pics earlier except I left the relay on the board) I'm stoked.
So it looks that for me the scrambling must of been caused by the 240v at the board via the relay.
I used a cheapy off ebay $6.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Claypot

Just wondering if you left the relay and just triggered the SSR from the input that drives the relay or did you use the relay to switch 12v or 5v to drive the SSR?

I guess it will work either way but the first would be better.

Glad it works

Zwitter
James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## claypot

zwitter said:


> Hi Claypot
> 
> Just wondering if you left the relay and just triggered the SSR from the input that drives the relay or did you use the relay to switch 12v or 5v to drive the SSR?
> 
> I guess it will work either way but the first would be better.
> 
> Glad it works
> 
> Zwitter
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hey James,
I used the relay to switch 12v from the transformer to the SSR. ( still using relay, you here it switching. Just took 240v + off the board and replaced with the 12v)
I just went with what was easier for me.... however soldering the wires to the SSR pins was a test of patience!!
I heat shrinked it after as you did.


----------



## zwitter

Hi claypot

The reason the relay was on the board was to support people using the LBP little brown pump or similar 12v pumps. But could also be used for 240vac pumps.

Switching the 12vdc pump was ok but switching 240vac it depended on what point of the cycle the voltage was at when the relay opened and closed. We put the resistor and capacitor on the output as a snubber and it generally worked fine if you kept the wiring separated from the circuit board and temp wiring etc. the pump wiring acted like an antenna and would potentially create the scrambled screen.

I did ask the ArdBir team to refresh the display every so often but they advised the way the code was written it was too hard to do. If they could have refreshed the display after any pump switching you would never have even seen a scramble.

There was discussion about changing the pump to an SSR drive but the LBP side won the day. I did do a show and tell re adding a small SSR for the pump and described how to run the second big SSR for the pump.

Trust me there was a lot of testing of different pumps and circuit routing for the scrambling issue.

Glad yours is working well.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## claypot

zwitter said:


> Hi claypot
> 
> The reason the relay was on the board was to support people using the LBP little brown pump or similar 12v pumps. But could also be used for 240vac pumps.
> 
> Switching the 12vdc pump was ok but switching 240vac it depended on what point of the cycle the voltage was at when the relay opened and closed. We put the resistor and capacitor on the output as a snubber and it generally worked fine if you kept the wiring separated from the circuit board and temp wiring etc. the pump wiring acted like an antenna and would potentially create the scrambled screen.
> 
> I did ask the ArdBir team to refresh the display every so often but they advised the way the code was written it was too hard to do. If they could have refreshed the display after any pump switching you would never have even seen a scramble.
> 
> There was discussion about changing the pump to an SSR drive but the LBP side won the day. I did do a show and tell re adding a small SSR for the pump and described how to run the second big SSR for the pump.
> 
> Trust me there was a lot of testing of different pumps and circuit routing for the scrambling issue.
> 
> Glad yours is working well.
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hey James,
Cheers for the details. I'm pretty happy with the way its all turned out. I agree that going with the extra options to use the LBP was the way to go.
I've found the whole project an excellent exercise, I've refreshed some old skills and learnt some new! Was good to be able to see the finished product and know how it all works. Once again thanks to all involved for all your time and input!!


----------



## niftinev

**** i need to pull my finger out, i haven't even built mine yet


----------



## LiquidCurrency

A sneak peek at my build


----------



## Mardoo

Dayum! Did you fab the stand yourself?


----------



## SBOB

LiquidCurrency said:


> A sneak peek at my build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479511011.084723.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479511051.501116.jpg


and you'll be taking orders when?


----------



## nfragol

Looks really great and very professional.


----------



## lael

LiquidCurrency said:


> A sneak peek at my build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479511011.084723.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479511051.501116.jpg


What skinless bulkhead fittings are you using there?


----------



## sixfignig

LiquidCurrency said:


> A sneak peek at my build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479511011.084723.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479511051.501116.jpg


Start a build thread please!


----------



## LiquidCurrency

The stainless skin fittings were just some i got from a local marine shop.

I fabbed the legs up myself. Got a mate to weld them as I don't have a TIG.

Reasonably pleased with the outcome so far, just trying to get on top of a couple of minor leaks.


----------



## Mardoo

You're too modest. It's effin beautiful. And yeah, marine supply places are the place to find SS skin fittings.


----------



## lael

Where is it leaking?


----------



## freelander2002

Hi folks  

My controller seems to have developed some sort of "virus".... The controller sounds the alarm for reached temperature wayyyyyyy of setpoint temperature... Any idea anyone ?


----------



## lael

freelander2002 said:


> Hi folks
> 
> My controller seems to have developed some sort of "virus".... The controller sounds the alarm for reached temperature wayyyyyyy of setpoint temperature... Any idea anyone ?


Sounds interesting. Have you edited the code?


----------



## Barge

Mine doesn't something similar. I think it may be the temp probe sending a dodgy that prompts the controller to progress to mash in. I haven't had time to confirm this however.


----------



## freelander2002

Haven't edited any code, brewing as we speak and this time ( so far) no problems....


----------



## LiquidCurrency

lael said:


> Where is it leaking?


Just around the outer skin fitting. The fitting is close to the corner radius of the pot as well as half of the three-ply base. Have ordered some 3mm silicone sheet to fab up some washers that will hopefully solve the issue.

So not far off getting it cranked up! It does heat up to a boil, takes a little while with a 2200w element. Pump works fine. 

Just need to learn how to drive it and program in all the set points and times etc.


----------



## Mr_Brewer

hi not sure were or how to buy a brauduino \ controller any one have one for sale and can post to adelaide please thanks Garry


----------



## terragady

hi which buzzer should one use for the build? Active or passive?
Something like this is fine? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-bag-12V-active-buzzer-Electromagnetic-SOT-Plastic-Pipe-Prolonged-sound/32262607680.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.a1TAM4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5_10065_10068_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10037_10054_10033_10059_10032_10099_10078_10079_10077_426_10103_10073_10102_10096_10052_10050_425_10051,searchweb201603_9&btsid=7ecf7927-f974-4f66-ad46-3bda87776a1a


----------



## zwitter

Hi Terragady

Electromagnetic!

Our circuit just uses a transistor to turn 12v on and off to actuate the buzzer. So probably almost any buzzer will work. The one we actually used is piezo buzzer and is very loud which is good when you are busy but a bit noisy if you are brewing late at night.
Most sit inside the box and that mutes them a little.

I would think this one will work

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

Mr_Brewer said:


> hi not sure were or how to buy a brauduino \ controller any one have one for sale and can post to adelaide please thanks Garry


Message Lael and he should still have a couple.


----------



## terragady

zwitter said:


> Hi Terragady
> 
> Electromagnetic!
> 
> Our circuit just uses a transistor to turn 12v on and off to actuate the buzzer. So probably almost any buzzer will work. The one we actually used is piezo buzzer and is very loud which is good when you are busy but a bit noisy if you are brewing late at night.
> Most sit inside the box and that mutes them a little.
> 
> I would think this one will work
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


OK so it is ON/OFF, so only active buzzer. The one I pasted is piezo as well. I guess you can use also just piezo or passive buzzer but will need to change a code for PWM signal, thats completely unnecessary probably and one will have to use passive buzzer only (or just piezo).

So now I look at my drawer and I have few packages of those small active buzzers. The problem is that i checked my order list and ones are 12V and ones are 5V, the look completely the same and there is no any markings on them...
Is there any difference between them except sound intensity? Maybe they just selling them like 5 and 12 but they have a range of 3-25V for example?
That what I have at my alarm system, it is little big bigger though -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Brand-NEW-3-24V-Piezo-Electronic-Tone-Buzzer-Alarm-95DB-Continuous-Sound-12V-Mounting-Hole/32593921992.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.YKXmVj

If there is a difference between 5 and 12 should I be worried that one will burn when powered by 12V? They both works fine as I test them, or maybe I can add some resistor for them?


----------



## zwitter

Hi Terragady

Stick a resistor inline to limit the current. Or try on 5v and maybe try 12v 

Just use ohms law to work out resistor size.
James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## terragady

zwitter said:


> Hi Terragady
> 
> Stick a resistor inline to limit the current. Or try on 5v and maybe try 12v
> 
> Just use ohms law to work out resistor size.
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hi Zwitter,

yes will do, thanks for help!


----------



## Swisswa

Hi all,

Just wired my brauduino up and all the wires are in the correct position, however the solid state relay will not switch and the temperature probe is reading about 20 degrees (Celsius) above the actual temperature. Pump turns on and off just fine.

I seem to get 12V DC to the positive side of the heater output, but not to the negative.

Also the LED indicator light for the heater doesn't work (tested when connected to USB as well). Not that it bothers me but could be related?

Has anyone else experienced this or know how to solve the issue?

Thanks.


----------



## lael

Swisswa said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just wired my brauduino up and all the wires are in the correct position, however the solid state relay will not switch and the temperature probe is reading about 20 degrees (Celsius) above the actual temperature. Pump turns on and off just fine.
> 
> I seem to get 12V DC to the positive side of the heater output, but not to the negative.
> 
> Also the LED indicator light for the heater doesn't work (tested when connected to USB as well). Not that it bothers me but could be related?
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this or know how to solve the issue?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi Swiss,

You may need to run through set up on ArdBir still? It sounds like the initial config hasn't been changed. - eg: changing heat to electric from gas should solve your heat LED issue.

The temp probe issue is weird. What is it reading?


----------



## Swisswa

lael said:


> Hi Swiss,
> 
> You may need to run through set up on ArdBir still? It sounds like the initial config hasn't been changed. - eg: changing heat to electric from gas should solve your heat LED issue.
> 
> The temp probe issue is weird. What is it reading?


Well I feel pretty stupid right now... Out of all the information I read up on I completely missed needing to change the initial config! Just ran through that and everything is working perfectly.

The temp probe is fine too, the calibration setting was set to 5 initially and it was reading 45 degrees.

Now I just need a free fermenter so I can run my first all grain beer  Thanks for the quick response lael


----------



## lael

Hehe, absolutely welcome! If you were in Sydney I'd give you one!


----------



## NealK

I have had a look through most of the thread but can't find a solution for the "memory Full" when trying to save a recipe. No recipes are currently saved and it will not let me save any. Everything else works very well.
I have the original controller and this is definitely an upgrade. The new connectors are excellent!
Any solutions greatly appreciated.


----------



## zwitter

Hi NealK

Did you run the setup and initialise recipie area?

It is very important to run all the config when first powered up and that includes the initialising the recipie area.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## NealK

I don't think I did that. I'll give it a try and report back!


----------



## sluggerdog

My controller has been outstanding for the last year or so since I got everything up and running. Today however as I brew probably 15th batch with the controller the temperature seems out?

I've only noticed it since the boil started, I have my boiling temp set to 98c which usually is about right, I hit it quite easily after mashout.

Today however the temperature is sitting around 95.5c - 96.5c so the timer hasn't kicked in, quite a rapid boil too, similar to my usual 98c boils. I compared it to my thermopen which is reading 98.9c.

Not a huge drama for the boil as I am just running a manual timer to finish today but it makes me wonder if the temperature was out during my mash as well?

Has anyone run into this issue before? Do I maybe need to calibrate the controller once I am done with today? Could the probe be somewhat damaged? Any other possible causes?

Note: My probe is located within a t-piece between the out of the kettle and where it runs into the pump and back into the kettle.

Thanks


----------



## lael

sluggerdog said:


> My controller has been outstanding for the last year or so since I got everything up and running. Today however as I brew probably 15th batch with the controller the temperature seems out?
> 
> I've only noticed it since the boil started, I have my boiling temp set to 98c which usually is about right, I hit it quite easily after mashout.
> 
> Today however the temperature is sitting around 95.5c - 96.5c so the timer hasn't kicked in, quite a rapid boil too, similar to my usual 98c boils. I compared it to my thermopen which is reading 98.9c.
> 
> Not a huge drama for the boil as I am just running a manual timer to finish today but it makes me wonder if the temperature was out during my mash as well?
> 
> Has anyone run into this issue before? Do I maybe need to calibrate the controller once I am done with today? Could the probe be somewhat damaged? Any other possible causes?
> 
> Note: My probe is located within a t-piece between the out of the kettle and where it runs into the pump and back into the kettle.
> 
> Thanks


Hi Slugger,
I've not noticed an issue with mine, but I only usually measure during the mash. It is consistently within 0.5-1C at the top of the malt pipe.

How is the T piece situated? Could it be an air pocket that is insulating the probe slightly? If there is consistent flow, I would expect that the liquid temp would be virtually the same as in the kettle as I wouldn't think it would have time to cool, and you've said it's been fine before (is that also with a temp measurement?). My guess is an air pocket, but you'll have to say if that is possible.


----------



## sluggerdog

lael said:


> Hi Slugger,
> I've not noticed an issue with mine, but I only usually measure during the mash. It is consistently within 0.5-1C at the top of the malt pipe.
> 
> How is the T piece situated? Could it be an air pocket that is insulating the probe slightly? If there is consistent flow, I would expect that the liquid temp would be virtually the same as in the kettle as I wouldn't think it would have time to cool, and you've said it's been fine before (is that also with a temp measurement?). My guess is an air pocket, but you'll have to say if that is possible.


Yeah it could be an air pocket, to be honest, I haven't measured my temp for 6+ months. The controller was always spot on with my thermopen so I didn't worry and got lazy, I will in future though. 

After today I might just run a water-only trial and see how it compares along the stages.

Cheers


----------



## lael

Let me know how it goes, if the t join has the temp probe above, it might be worth rotating it so it is coming up from below and air can't get stuck.

Yeah, I'm the same. Just happened to test it last time because I was at a friend's brewing and he asked 

I like to think that is testament to how reliable the system is... I just trust mine to do the job and leave it to its thing.


----------



## Jase

After spending most weekends over the last two years completing a Masters at uni which I completed in December and a well deserved break overseas over Christmas, it's time to start thinking about building the controller and the new 1v brewery.

Started to put the controller together and noticed that the fascia only had three holes drilled, slightly cracked the fascia putting the 4th hole in. The buzzer was missing from the kit, so I'll need to pm Lael for details on what buzzer to get.

My 3v system is gas fired, so I have a few questions relating to an all electric setup. I'm planning on building the 1v system with a 80 litre pot and a 35 litre malt pipe. I usually brew double batches. 

Should I grab a single 4800 w element ( I'm happy to install a 20 amp circuit if need be), or two 2400 w elements, so I can switch off the 2nd element when boil has been reached? ( I have no idea if 4800 watt is overkill or 2400 w is not enough, I'm not even sure how long a double batch takes to get to boil using electricity).

Any advice would be appreciated. 

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## lael

Jase said:


> After spending most weekends over the last two years completing a Masters at uni which I completed in December and a well deserved break overseas over Christmas, it's time to start thinking about building the controller and the new 1v brewery.
> 
> Started to put the controller together and noticed that the fascia only had three holes drilled, slightly cracked the fascia putting the 4th hole in. The buzzer was missing from the kit, so I'll need to pm Lael for details on what buzzer to get.
> 
> My 3v system is gas fired, so I have a few questions relating to an all electric setup. I'm planning on building the 1v system with a 80 litre pot and a 35 litre malt pipe. I usually brew double batches.
> 
> Should I grab a single 4800 w element ( I'm happy to install a 20 amp circuit if need be), or two 2400 w elements, so I can switch off the 2nd element when boil has been reached? ( I have no idea if 4800 watt is overkill or 2400 w is not enough, I'm not even sure how long a double batch takes to get to boil using electricity).
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


Hi Jase,

Congratulations on the Masters - an excellent achievement!

PM your details and I'll send through a new fascia and buzzer.

The wattage of your elements doesn't matter, provided: it is low density so you don't scorch wort, you can provide the required power and you have the space. Adding 20A outlets will cost money, adding 2x10A elements will take more space in your brewpot. Assuming you keep the same watt density on your element, a 20A element will need to be twice as long, which will impact your minimum volumes (make them larger as your minimum wort height will be higher). To be honest, if I was to go 20A, I would probably go 2x 4800w elements, and trust that the PID and PWM functions would allow control of the boil appropriately. That will speed up your ramp times. It will cost more initially, but be more satisfying in the long run.


----------



## malt junkie

A note Lael missed there: If your running more than 15 amps (total) through the SSRs you need to put a fan on the heat sink. It takes a standard 60 mm computer type fan. If you go two 4800w elements I'd fit 2 fans.

For your batch size 3600w would probably get the job done, however with 60-70L of wort (pre-boil) in there it'll be slow going. Using two 2400w elements (this is the set up I have) means you can use two separate circuits(every house has 3) therefore if you move or go to a friends you'll still be able to use the system. As Lael mentioned I just let the controller run the elements.

35L is the same as my small malt pipe good for large singles and medium doubles.

Enjoy the rest of the build!


----------



## Jase

lael said:


> Hi Jase,
> 
> Congratulations on the Masters - an excellent achievement!
> 
> PM your details and I'll send through a new fascia and buzzer.
> 
> The wattage of your elements doesn't matter, provided: it is low density so you don't scorch wort, you can provide the required power and you have the space. Adding 20A outlets will cost money, adding 2x10A elements will take more space in your brewpot. Assuming you keep the same watt density on your element, a 20A element will need to be twice as long, which will impact your minimum volumes (make them larger as your minimum wort height will be higher). To be honest, if I was to go 20A, I would probably go 2x 4800w elements, and trust that the PID and PWM functions would allow control of the boil appropriately. That will speed up your ramp times. It will cost more initially, but be more satisfying in the long run.


Thanks Lael,

And thanks for your kind words.

If I ran 2 x 4800 w elements, would I be correct in thinking that I would need 2 x 20a circuits?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## Jase

malt junkie said:


> A note Lael missed there: If your running more than 15 amps (total) through the SSRs you need to put a fan on the heat sink. It takes a standard 60 mm computer type fan. If you go two 4800w elements I'd fit 2 fans.
> 
> For your batch size 3600w would probably get the job done, however with 60-70L of wort (pre-boil) in there it'll be slow going. Using two 2400w elements (this is the set up I have) means you can use two separate circuits(every house has 3) therefore if you move or go to a friends you'll still be able to use the system. As Lael mentioned I just let the controller run the elements.
> 
> 35L is the same as my small malt pipe good for large singles and medium doubles.
> 
> Enjoy the rest of the build!


Thanks for the reply MJ,

I will put two fans on the heatsink as per your recommendation. Can I power these from the controller itself?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## malt junkie

Yeah the fans you need are 12v and can be wire to the 12v power supply inside the case, the power draw from those is negligible.


----------



## niftinev

Jase said:


> Thanks Lael,
> 
> And thanks for your kind words.
> 
> If I ran 2 x 4800 w elements, would I be correct in thinking that I would need 2 x 20a circuits?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


not a sparky

I would go 2 x 30a circuits or 1x 30a for 4800 watts

15a house circuit is for 2400 watts, so 4800 watts for 30a


----------



## malt junkie

Jase said:


> Thanks Lael,
> 
> And thanks for your kind words.
> 
> If I ran 2 x 4800 w elements, would I be correct in thinking that I would need 2 x 20a circuits?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


I have 4800w (total) @ 2x 2400w and use two standard house circuits. I have 53L malt pipe and regularly tripple batch (60L odd to fermenter). I also have a 35L malt pipe max batch is a decent double(40L odd to the fermenter). 4800w (total) will give you a good hard boil with reasonable ramp times at that batch size. 3600w (total) would get the job done, just. Your max pre boil volume should be no more than 50L.

9600w (total) @ 2x 4800w for a double batch is complete over kill.

2c (this is a 1970's 2c)


----------



## Mr_Brewer

laelhttp://aussiehomebrewer.com/user/26092-lael/ hi pm sent 

still cant run this 

Brauduino


----------



## Jase

malt junkie said:


> I have 4800w (total) @ 2x 2400w and use two standard house circuits. I have 53L malt pipe and regularly tripple batch (60L odd to fermenter). I also have a 35L malt pipe max batch is a decent double(40L odd to the fermenter). 4800w (total) will give you a good hard boil with reasonable ramp times at that batch size. 3600w (total) would get the job done, just. Your max pre boil volume should be no more than 50L.
> 
> 9600w (total) @ 2x 4800w for a double batch is complete over kill.
> 
> 2c (this is a 1970's 2c)


Thanks MJ,

Great advice. 

If I ran 2 x 2400 w to get to boil, is there a way to throttle the elements so I get a rolling boil rather than a hard boil or will the controller manage/run the elements?

Btw, that 1970s 2c would be worth quite a bit today!

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## malt junkie

You can adjust the vigor of the boil with the controller

Cheers


----------



## malt junkie

For those just building this kit or reprogramming after a few years here are the instructions for program setup, the drop box where they were located no longer works.View attachment ArdBir Manual ENG (2.8.x).pdf


cheers


----------



## Jase

Hi All,

Spent a few hours yesterday putting together the controller. 

Planning on getting a sparky to look at it this weekend or next week if I don't finish it tomorrow. I'm struggling with the notion of using figure 8 from the Active In on the SSR ( grouped with 2 strands of 2.5mm active cable) to the board and figure 8 back to the active on the pump socket. Figure 8 seems too thin. I'm almost looking for assurance that figure 8 will be ok.

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## malt junkie

figure 8????? never heard the term.


----------



## Jase

malt junkie said:


> figure 8????? never heard the term.


The guys refer to it in their video and I believe it is mentioned in this forum, 

Out of curiosity, what cabling did you use on the pump active pin MJ?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## SBOB

Jase said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Spent a few hours yesterday putting together the controller.
> 
> Planning on getting a sparky to look at it this weekend or next week if I don't finish it tomorrow. I'm struggling with the notion of using figure 8 from the Active In on the SSR ( grouped with 2 strands of 2.5mm active cable) to the board and figure 8 back to the active on the pump socket. Figure 8 seems too thin. I'm almost looking for assurance that figure 8 will be ok.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase



for the pump, no issues.. the current draw from the pump is minimal
for the heater/SSR link, the 'active' side of the SSR shouldn't be linked to the board at all. It should be the incoming active power connected on one side and heater terminal active connected on the other.
The only link from the board to the SSR is on the control side, which is a low voltage 'turn on' signal. I would be using basic 12v signal cabling for this, 2-core 240v cable is overkill (and harder to route neatly)


----------



## Jase

SBOB said:


> for the pump, no issues.. the current draw from the pump is minimal
> for the heater/SSR link, the 'active' side of the SSR shouldn't be linked to the board at all. It should be the incoming active power connected on one side and heater terminal active connected on the other.
> The only link from the board to the SSR is on the control side, which is a low voltage 'turn on' signal. I would be using basic 12v signal cabling for this, 2-core 240v cable is overkill (and harder to route neatly)


Thanks SBOB,

I thought the pump active to board cable was routed from the active side of the SSR, I will watch the video again. I have the SSR cables running from the control side to the board. Where should I route the active pump cable from? I saw a diagram on this forum that route the active pump from the main power in post. (Sorry I don't have a picture with me, I can upload a picture tonight if need be). 

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## malt junkie

I don't use my Lael Kit (yet) I have one of the original Matho's kits and The on board relay is only switch 12v that then kicks an SSR, the 240ac side I have @1.5mm², the pump at best will pull an amp or two so even 1mm² would be fine.


----------



## zwitter

Hi brauduino builders

Wattage
Wattage. Equals volts multiplied by amps
So 2400 watts is 10 amps multiplied by 240volts
3600 watts is 15amps times 240volts
4800 watts is 20 amps times 240volts

Houses in most of Australia have a minimum of 2 power circuits. And neither may have more than 60% of the load in the house.

When we designed the controller the purpose of having 2 SSR and 2 inputs was so that we could run a second element on a different circuit. 

My house has 4 power circuits. 2 in house and 1 in garage a nd the 40amp one for my welder.
I normally split my brewing across any 2 circuits. I have a 2400watt element and a chugger pump and that will happily run on 1 circuit. I use second circuit to run an over the side 2400watt element during boil. Chugger uses about 150 watts so one standard powerpoint can run single 2400 watt element and chugger etc.

I have a 50 litre pot but mainly do batches around 25 litres and 2400watt does a very poor boil. With the second 2400 watt i get a vigorous boil.

If 8 build another I would up the element to 3600 or 4800.

Figure 8 cable is just 2 wires attached next to each other and comes in lots of different sizes. The figure 8 i used was small and only for control signals to SSRs and to run the 12 volts. It was not big enough for the 240volt side of the SSRs.


Cheers

Zwitter
James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## freelander2002

Finaly got around to convert my second brew rig today  I got two kits, so this one for the second rig was just out of its bubble wrap today ....

First off, I have buildt one, noe issues exept temp wires intermeittant contats. How ever today ? I am pusseld... These are the facts after the controller was assembeld. 

Software loads, knobs/buttons work, meny , setteings and all so set for electric, not gas....

Beeper does not beap, leds do not ligth up when in manual mode, can not hear relay either .. temp not reading , value 0 celsius, even with probe removed.......

All identical with first controller buildt.... any suggestions ?


----------



## freelander2002

Problem solved  Updated software and it plays the good tunes


----------



## malt junkie

freelander2002 said:


> Problem solved  Updated software and it plays the good tunes


Glad to hear a reload fixed it. When we loaded these it was a bit of a production line, so we didn't get to test features.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hey all please check your controllers to see if your time goes longer than 2.40 hours. Not sure if I have screwed up the programming 
Cheers
Graham
Ps: Loving it with the Grainfather


----------



## lael

Jase said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Spent a few hours yesterday putting together the controller.
> 
> Planning on getting a sparky to look at it this weekend or next week if I don't finish it tomorrow. I'm struggling with the notion of using figure 8 from the Active In on the SSR ( grouped with 2 strands of 2.5mm active cable) to the board and figure 8 back to the active on the pump socket. Figure 8 seems too thin. I'm almost looking for assurance that figure 8 will be ok.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


Hi Jase,
I think I used speaker wire cable from jaycar. Around 1mm thick core stranded. The only place that style of cable should be used is low voltage (ie - in this case the 12V side). The power supply can deliver 2A @ 12v, which is what you should be rating your low voltage cables to. Have a chat to the guys at Jaycar / your electrician to confirm that you are using the correct cables for the application.


You need to use correctly rated 240v cables for the high voltage side. Do NOT use speaker cable for 240V.


----------



## buckerooni

Hi All, I'm on my second brew, and when I after I've finished my auto mode and flip to manual to try to get the pump going for the whirlpool the pump light flashes on, then off very fast.

The pump works fine at other times in manual and auto, any ideas?

this is what it looks like before pump has been selected:




this is what it looks like after pump has been selected:





thanks for any assistance.


----------



## SBOB

pretty sure there is a setting regarding inhibiting/allowing pump during boil (or above a certain temp), which you will need to disable


----------



## malt junkie

On the hardware side there are a few things to check also. Obviously check your wiring of the circuit including the pump button. Without the element or pump plugged in, check the Pump SSR LED lights up when the pump turns on. (don't power the system with the enclosure open)

A picture of internal wiring would be very helpful.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Malt Junkie et al

There was no SSR for the pump in standard trim!

It can be setup to use the second SSR for the pump but was not the way we speced it in the beginning.

It is better to get a small 2A SSR if you want to go SSRs all the way. I posted a little guide on how to install a small SSR for pump.

James Zwitter




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

zwitter said:


> Hi Malt Junkie et al
> 
> There was no SSR for the pump in standard trim!
> 
> It can be setup to use the second SSR for the pump but was not the way we speced it in the beginning.
> 
> It is better to get a small 2A SSR if you want to go SSRs all the way. I posted a little guide on how to install a small SSR for pump.
> 
> James Zwitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD





malt junkie said:


> On the hardware side there are a few things to check also. Obviously check your wiring of the circuit including the pump button. Without the element or pump plugged in, check the Pump SSR LED lights up when the pump turns on. (don't power the system with the enclosure open)
> 
> A picture of internal wiring would be very helpful.


oops see what happens when you got too many electronic toys!!!

As per Zwitter the relay is on board and no external indication given other than the front led display.

Note the pump Led is actually part of the circuit if it isn't correctly plugged in the circuit won't work.

More pic's please


----------



## sluggerdog

lael said:


> Hi Slugger,
> I've not noticed an issue with mine, but I only usually measure during the mash. It is consistently within 0.5-1C at the top of the malt pipe.
> 
> How is the T piece situated? Could it be an air pocket that is insulating the probe slightly? If there is consistent flow, I would expect that the liquid temp would be virtually the same as in the kettle as I wouldn't think it would have time to cool, and you've said it's been fine before (is that also with a temp measurement?). My guess is an air pocket, but you'll have to say if that is possible.


Following this post from a while ago I brewed again yesterday where I had temp differences of up to 8c compared to my thermopen.

I decided to pull things apart and see what was going on.

The following photo shows the cause of all my issues. All that nasty built up gunk is hiding my temp probe, surprisingly beers have still been good even though they have been passing through this for I'm guessing a long while.






Anyway, after some reconfiguring my temp probe is now within the pot, I wish I did this the first time. It's reading with 0.1c of my thermopen. I also have fewer places for gunk to build up now.


----------



## Mardoo

Thanks for sharing that. Always good to know where to look!


----------



## Kingy

I checked my setup last week as my beers have been a little bit on the sweet side lately and haven't attenuated as they should and found it to be 3 ° out. I put it down to an air pocket in the t piece, I done a caustic clean as well and it got a fair bit of gunk out. Got a beer fermenting at the moment so I'll see how that goes. It might be time for a strip down and a good soak but after seeing that photo.


----------



## buckerooni

malt junkie said:


> On the hardware side there are a few things to check also. Obviously check your wiring of the circuit including the pump button. Without the element or pump plugged in, check the Pump SSR LED lights up when the pump turns on. (don't power the system with the enclosure open)
> 
> A picture of internal wiring would be very helpful.


Thanks malkjunkie, tested this - powered on, no element/pump connected. LED lights up fine.

The pump does work fine when in auto, LED lights up etc, I even restarted my 'auto' program after this issue and the pump worked fine! might be some config around running pump at a certain temp? Will look through the setup again. I remember setting pump off when boil, maybe there's another config somewhere.


----------



## buckerooni

zwitter said:


> Hi brauduino builders
> 
> Wattage
> Wattage. Equals volts multiplied by amps
> So 2400 watts is 10 amps multiplied by 240volts
> 3600 watts is 15amps times 240volts
> 4800 watts is 20 amps times 240volts
> 
> Houses in most of Australia have a minimum of 2 power circuits. And neither may have more than 60% of the load in the house.
> 
> When we designed the controller the purpose of having 2 SSR and 2 inputs was so that we could run a second element on a different circuit.
> 
> My house has 4 power circuits. 2 in house and 1 in garage a nd the 40amp one for my welder.
> I normally split my brewing across any 2 circuits. I have a 2400watt element and a chugger pump and that will happily run on 1 circuit. I use second circuit to run an over the side 2400watt element during boil. Chugger uses about 150 watts so one standard powerpoint can run single 2400 watt element and chugger etc.
> 
> I have a 50 litre pot but mainly do batches around 25 litres and 2400watt does a very poor boil. With the second 2400 watt i get a vigorous boil.
> 
> If 8 build another I would up the element to 3600 or 4800.
> 
> Figure 8 cable is just 2 wires attached next to each other and comes in lots of different sizes. The figure 8 i used was small and only for control signals to SSRs and to run the 12 volts. It was not big enough for the 240volt side of the SSRs.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Zwitter
> James
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


I've got 2 x 4500w camco elements in my 100L pot. Ramps at 1 deg every 30 seconds running them at 80% with about 80L - I like alot! Did notice the unit gets a bit warm, are fans mandatory running this much power?


----------



## malt junkie

buckerooni said:


> I've got 2 x 4500w camco elements in my 100L pot. Ramps at 1 deg every 30 seconds running them at 80% with about 80L - I like alot! Did notice the unit gets a bit warm, are fans mandatory running this much power?


Fans will prolong the life of your SSRs. I could show you some photos of melted SSRs, though there was a dodgy batch or two of Foteks that did that, even under small loads. The heat sink without fan will deal well with around 3600w, above this and your risking over heating the SSR/s.


----------



## buckerooni

good to know, where should these fans be mounted on the unit?


----------



## malt junkie

On the rear of the heat sink there are holes for an 80mm computer fan (12v)


----------



## zwitter

Hi Buckerooni

The SSRs will get warm but if they are too hot to leave a finger on the heatsink then I recommend a fan.
I ordered my fan on epay as it is an odd size. I put a little switch on the side of the controller to switch it on and off. I have a second switch that turns the control line for second SSR off as well as easier than switching 20A. Use that to control the boil if required.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

zwitter said:


> Hi Buckerooni
> 
> The SSRs will get warm but if they are too hot to leave a finger on the heatsink then I recommend a fan.
> I ordered my fan on epay as it is an odd size. I put a little switch on the side of the controller to switch it on and off. I have a second switch that turns the control line for second SSR off as well as easier than switching 20A. Use that to control the boil if required.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


2 x 4500w, it's going to get a little warmer than your or my 2 x 2400w!


----------



## Mardoo

Having trouble finding the post describing how to wire the fan into the controller. Anyone remember where that is?

Just bought a fan


----------



## malt junkie

Wire off the 12v supply that powers the board.


----------



## micbrew

yep , I can confirm having a fan is the shiz ...my heat sink does not even get warm ,,previously without fan ..hot baby hot

mick , is there a chance you can look at my other controller
I believe I need a new board and reflash ... after I zapped it


----------



## malt junkie

micbrew said:


> yep , I can confirm having a fan is the shiz ...my heat sink does not even get warm ,,previously without fan ..hot baby hot
> 
> mick , is there a chance you can look at my other controller
> I believe I need a new board and reflash ... after I zapped it


sure we can sort something out. My Lael kit is in pieces on the dinning table while I work on V2.0. I have to say Lael put in a lot of work to get this done, I've really only fleshed some stuff out at this point, it's going to take me months.
Trying to get to town for the southern courage release, but have to see what the doc says. PM me over the weekend.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Micbrew

Shiz ?
Your spell checker seems to be defective!

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## micbrew

yep............. ..shooda been ..........shizzle

not ta mention my grammatical errors

ha ha

mick


----------



## Futur

Is anyone having issues with the PWM power adjustment during boil?? In auto mode my controller starts the boil timer once the boil temperature is reached, then it just provides boil temperature adjustment and is a right pain in the ass/impossible to maintain the correct boil power using just boil temperature adjustments.

Any ideas??


----------



## Futur

I think it's related to the pump during boil setting. As soon as I disabled that I had PWM control return at the boil. It's slightly annoying if you want to do a no chill as if you want to pump the wort out you have to go into settings and enable the pump during boil and adjust the temp lockout to about 100C.

Wish there was just a pump lockout setting you can use without having the pump come on during the boil!


----------



## Jase

Hi All,

I'm not sure whether it is worthy of a poll, but I'm interested in finding out what size setup most have gone with. I'm not sure whether to create a single batch or double batch setup. I realise that at the end of the day, it is my decision, but I see pros and cons in both setups.

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## malt junkie

I went with a 100L main pot, a 35L MP and a 50L(odd)MP. About to put together a second system 50L keg with a BM20L MP. 35L odd malt pipe gives you a mild ground to do singles and doubles but your doubles won't stretch much above 1050.


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Hey gang. Just thought I'd share my finished product. 
Finally done, however it took me so long that if I have have looked at building now, I probably would have just bought a Gainfather.
Anyhow, I'm pretty happy with the final outcome.
Rough prices of components are as follows:
Lael controller $300? I can't recall exactly how much it was
Ss Brewtech kettle $280
Heat element $140
Brau magnetic pump $80
Brau original malt pipe and mesh plates $160 (I think)
Beermometer $80
Skin fittings $17ea
Various parts fittings couplings and cables $100

I also originally used a Bayou Classic (you'll see in some pics) 


boiler however it never survived the welding. It was an American built heap of thin cheap junk, and I suspect it was very low grade stainless, wasted my money on that pot, had to cut the legs off. 

As you can see it wasn't the cheapest of builds as I used more premium end of parts however it certainly came in under the original Brau price. I'm a Mechanical Fitter and an Electrician and when I looked at the Braumeister's I just couldn't see $2500 worth of hardware and software. I was originally going to build a manually operated machine however came across Lael's kit which was great timing. 

I'm yet to christen it (although I have cooked a sous vide with it) as I've only finished it this week and am just working out the boil off rates etc.

I also have no idea on how to drive it! Is there a manual for this thing? How do I program the time and temp settings?

It needs a name too. iBrew? Thoughts, suggestions?

Anyhow have a look at the pics. Happy to answer any questions. 
Chris


----------



## terragady

How SSRs are attached to heatsinks? Is there a space between ssr metal plate and heatsink or you covered it somehow? I am doing a new build and I do not have space for heatsink inside but I am not really shure how I can put it outside that way that all metal plate from SSR will touch heatsink.


----------



## lael

Beautiful piece of work! Yes you can select manual, and change the temp to match the setting you want. If you haven't already, run through the config on the unit.



LiquidCurrency said:


> Hey gang. Just thought I'd share my finished product.
> Finally done, however it took me so long that if I have have looked at building now, I probably would have just bought a Gainfather.
> Anyhow, I'm pretty happy with the final outcome.
> Rough prices of components are as follows:
> Lael controller $300? I can't recall exactly how much it was
> Ss Brewtech kettle $280
> Heat element $140
> Brau magnetic pump $80
> Brau original malt pipe and mesh plates $160 (I think)
> Beermometer $80
> Skin fittings $17ea
> Various parts fittings couplings and cables $100
> 
> I also originally used a Bayou Classic (you'll see in some pics)
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1488027518.178314.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1488027518.178314.jpgboiler however it never survived the welding. It was an American built heap of thin cheap junk, and I suspect it was very low grade stainless, wasted my money on that pot, had to cut the legs off.
> 
> As you can see it wasn't the cheapest of builds as I used more premium end of parts however it certainly came in under the original Brau price. I'm a Mechanical Fitter and an Electrician and when I looked at the Braumeister's I just couldn't see $2500 worth of hardware and software. I was originally going to build a manually operated machine however came across Lael's kit which was great timing.
> 
> I'm yet to christen it (although I have cooked a sous vide with it) as I've only finished it this week and am just working out the boil off rates etc.
> 
> I also have no idea on how to drive it! Is there a manual for this thing? How do I program the time and temp settings?
> 
> It needs a name too. iBrew? Thoughts, suggestions?
> 
> Anyhow have a look at the pics. Happy to answer any questions.
> Chris


----------



## lael

Cut a hole in your box, so that the SSR goes through, and then make sure your heatsink is larger than that on all sides, with enough space to tap into the heatsink through another set of holes in the box, and then screw it in. heatsink through box. mounting screws - box wall - heatsink.



terragady said:


> How SSRs are attached to heatsinks? Is there a space between ssr metal plate and heatsink or you covered it somehow? I am doing a new build and I do not have space for heatsink inside but I am not really shure how I can put it outside that way that all metal plate from SSR will touch heatsink.


----------



## terragady

@lael

ups, I have a signle heatsink which is exactly same size as SSR. I will have to figure something out  thanks for help!


----------



## eviltabouleh

That is glorious!



LiquidCurrency said:


> Hey gang. Just thought I'd share my finished product.
> Finally done, however it took me so long that if I have have looked at building now, I probably would have just bought a Gainfather.
> Anyhow, I'm pretty happy with the final outcome.
> Rough prices of components are as follows:
> Lael controller $300? I can't recall exactly how much it was
> Ss Brewtech kettle $280
> Heat element $140
> Brau magnetic pump $80
> Brau original malt pipe and mesh plates $160 (I think)
> Beermometer $80
> Skin fittings $17ea
> Various parts fittings couplings and cables $100
> 
> I also originally used a Bayou Classic (you'll see in some pics) boiler however it never survived the welding. It was an American built heap of thin cheap junk, and I suspect it was very low grade stainless, wasted my money on that pot, had to cut the legs off.
> 
> As you can see it wasn't the cheapest of builds as I used more premium end of parts however it certainly came in under the original Brau price. I'm a Mechanical Fitter and an Electrician and when I looked at the Braumeister's I just couldn't see $2500 worth of hardware and software. I was originally going to build a manually operated machine however came across Lael's kit which was great timing.
> 
> I'm yet to christen it (although I have cooked a sous vide with it) as I've only finished it this week and am just working out the boil off rates etc.
> 
> I also have no idea on how to drive it! Is there a manual for this thing? How do I program the time and temp settings?
> 
> It needs a name too. iBrew? Thoughts, suggestions?
> 
> Anyhow have a look at the pics. Happy to answer any questions.


----------



## eviltabouleh

:-(
I have killed my controller
It seems that the arduino works perfectly, I have uploaded other sketches to it
But when it is connected to the shield it just lights up the LCD and thats it shows over so long and thanks for the fish

Is there anything that I can test / try
How much would a replacement shield be, are there spares? or have I just nuked the LCD

many cheers
Greg


----------



## LiquidCurrency

lael said:


> Beautiful piece of work! Yes you can select manual, and change the temp to match the setting you want. If you haven't already, run through the config on the unit.


Lael I see that the version in the video is 2.8.3 whereas mine is 2.6.7

How can I download the current version and how do I go about programming in to my controller?

Chris


----------



## zwitter

Hi eviltabolegh. (Yeah never was good at spellin)

Try turning the contrast pot. That is the little adjustable thing near the LCD. Sometimes the display is there but no contrast so it does not show up.

There are probably lots of things to do to test but all depends on your technical and electrical knowledge.

Where in this big brown land are you? I am in the northern bits of Sydney and can look at it for you.

Lael probably has spare bits you could purchase from him.

I have blown up a couple of Arduinos in various projects. What alternate programs have you loaded to it? Blink is a bit basic to do any serious testing.

If you are confident in sketch writing you could set it to blink the outputs sequentially or read inputs and send out through the serial monitor etc.

You have lots of support through the forum.

I would suggest you disconnect all 240v from the project so as to avoid electric shock.

The display and outputs only works when it is powered from 12v as the outputs reference 12v 

You could write a sketch to read the 4 input buttons to change the state of buzzer, pump, heater and write something to display as a test. 

If you have a digital voltmeter there are things you can do to test some bits.

Let us know your level of ability and tools at hand and we can talk you through some of the basics.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

LiquidCurrency said:


> Lael I see that the version in the video is 2.8.3 whereas mine is 2.6.7
> 
> How can I download the current version and how do I go about programming in to my controller?
> 
> Chris


Lael has a video link (somewhere in this thread)that shows how to do this. Only takes a few minutes, I'd link you up but lost all my links to PC death 2015 :angrysadly many files were lost).

I feel remorseful at their loss (the files) so better be off to have a beer in fond remembrance. :icon_cheers:


----------



## eviltabouleh

Me too Twitter! 

I'm in Newcastle and don't get over the hawkesbury often.

I have a multimeter and can do most things with it. I work in IT so what I can't do I can google the shit out of 
I only ran the blink sketch to do testing but I may have ran up a one wire temp sketch outputting to serial. I have another LCD but I dont recall if I tested it in the same pin outs And it's not the same as the shield lcd..I struggled 
I have another Arduino but it isn't the same model..Chinese knockoff 

I played with the pot as soon as it was unresponsive ... Read it in the install manual a while back

I'm not highly skilled in writing sketches but I can cut and paste and change the odd pinouts etc to suit

All 240 has been removed and all of my testing has been done with 12v attached 

Hit me with some things to try 




zwitter said:


> Hi eviltabolegh. (Yeah never was good at spellin)
> Try turning the contrast pot. That is the little adjustable thing near the LCD. Sometimes the display is there but no contrast so it does not show up.
> There are probably lots of things to do to test but all depends on your technical and electrical knowledge.
> Where in this big brown land are you? I am in the northern bits of Sydney and can look at it for you.
> Lael probably has spare bits you could purchase from him.
> I have blown up a couple of Arduinos in various projects. What alternate programs have you loaded to it? Blink is a bit basic to do any serious testing.
> If you are confident in sketch writing you could set it to blink the outputs sequentially or read inputs and send out through the serial monitor etc.
> You have lots of support through the forum.
> I would suggest you disconnect all 240v from the project so as to avoid electric shock.
> The display and outputs only works when it is powered from 12v as the outputs reference 12v
> You could write a sketch to read the 4 input buttons to change the state of buzzer, pump, heater and write something to display as a test.
> If you have a digital voltmeter there are things you can do to test some bits.
> Let us know your level of ability and tools at hand and we can talk you through some of the basics.
> James
> Zwitter
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

So can I just use ET?

Ok so 12v is correct?
Find 5v pin and measure?
Should be ok if blink ran?

Other Arduinos should be ok as long as the sketch compiles into the available space.
You will need to choose the version when you compile. Also need to chose language and board and display size etc. it is all in the initial instructions. If you need more details send me a PM and will write some more tomorrow night.

Be very sure it plugs in the right way round.

Or write a basic sketch to turn pump on and off. Use blink and just add lines to set the pins for pump and heater. Maybe alternate?

If this works then try to initialise the lcd and see if can get any character on the display.

Good luck.

You can post it to me if you like as an option and I will take a look.
James

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## terragady

LiquidCurrency said:


> Lael I see that the version in the video is 2.8.3 whereas mine is 2.6.7
> 
> How can I download the current version and how do I go about programming in to my controller?
> 
> Chris


You can find it here:
https://github.com/terragady/ArdBir

All you have to do is dowload and flash via Arduino IDE.

Also there is a nice software better than ardbir from netherland guy if you are interested


----------



## Mardoo

Tell us more about this nice software, please.


----------



## terragady

I think I was posting it here already but it is here:

unfortunately forum is in dutch
http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/forum/index.php?topic=31472

but software itself is english and some desc is in english 
https://github.com/mbroek/MBSE-ArdRims


----------



## LiquidCurrency

terragady said:


> I think I was posting it here already but it is here:
> 
> unfortunately forum is in dutch
> http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/forum/index.php?topic=31472
> 
> but software itself is english and some desc is in english
> https://github.com/mbroek/MBSE-ArdRims


Thanks Terragady. Hate to be a PITA but are you able to jot down some step by step instructions on how to download and upload the files you've mentioned?
On the link's you've share there multiple files to download. Which do I use?


----------



## LiquidCurrency

^^ I'm new to ArdBir


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Do we have any instructional videos on the Set Automation function? Just trying to get my head around how to program my temp and time steps in.


----------



## malt junkie

LC,
if you follow the PDF instruction manual I posted a few pages back you should be all good.

Mardoo,
I've just finished the Board schematic for the WIFI version, I'll be having boards fabbed over the next month, if your system is operational happy for you to help beta test. It uses a web page interface, so yes you'll be able to brew from your phone. All the other buttons and bits are still operational. 

Lael,
check your inbox


----------



## Mardoo

Very interesting MJ!


----------



## terragady

malt junkie said:


> LC,
> if you follow the PDF instruction manual I posted a few pages back you should be all good.
> 
> Mardoo,
> I've just finished the Board schematic for the WIFI version, I'll be having boards fabbed over the next month, if your system is operational happy for you to help beta test. It uses a web page interface, so yes you'll be able to brew from your phone. All the other buttons and bits are still operational.
> 
> Lael,
> check your inbox



Can you say something more? Are you developing new firmware for this or are you using one existing? ESP board?


----------



## malt junkie

terragady said:


> Can you say something more? Are you developing new firmware for this or are you using one existing? ESP board?


Based on wemos mini, firmware is BrewmaniacEx by a member of HBT. The board I've designed will be a direct bolt in replacement(Laels KIt). The controller runs and serves it's own PHP web pages and has the ability to import beerxml (any budding web designers can have a swing at making the web interface a bit more flash). Also saves logs of each brew day. There is an extra actuator for HLT and space in the code for a second temp sensor. I have some of the final tidying up to do (mainly labels etc) this week before it gets sent off for prototyping. Somewhere around 6 units will be made and tested.
At this time it's not clear on costs, Lael will give everyone a heads up once we're happy the unit and firmware are solid, then the "buy list" will begin, as before, the more participants, the bigger the saving for every one.
Fingers crossed the first board has no errors, and we can sail through the testing phase. The current design is a little over engineered in a few areas, this may change due to costs ( an onboard SSR will cost more than the total cost the rest of the parts to go on the board, as we all found with Laels kit the onboard relay worked well and orders of magnitude cheaper).
I'll keep you guys updated when I have some news, just be aware after sending off the design it could be 6 weeks or more before they are produced and then snail mail across the globe. When I have hardware in my hand I'll start a new thread with pictures etc.


----------



## terragady

oh ok I know Vito and Brewmaniac and BrewPiLess and I have boards for both using Wemos D1 and also one from robotdyn. Works pretty nice now. There is this dutch guy who is also working on soft for ESP. Do you use I/O extender in your board?


----------



## malt junkie

terragady said:


> oh ok I know Vito and Brewmaniac and BrewPiLess and I have boards for both using Wemos D1 and also one from robotdyn. Works pretty nice now. There is this dutch guy who is also working on soft for ESP. Do you use I/O extender in your board?



Yeah same as stated in Vitto's original schematic, I only just got my boards for BrewPiLess and still waiting for parts from china once thay arrive The soldering station will be getting bussy. Note matho's original board files have been available for years to anyone who wanted to make one and obviously the same with Ardbir. However there were a lot of people a bit intimidated with soldering up a board, and the whole gambit of sourcing parts and making them fit in something that look halfway decent. 
Lael put together a kit with everything, that was easily bolted together(CNC'ed case, electrical conectors and heatsink with all holes predrilled and tapped) this made it really easy for anyone to have a quality controller.
The idea with my board design is to provide an easy bolt in upgrade for that kit for the more than 200 people who bought one.

I have one of the first 10 boards ever made by matho, and I have one of Laels kits, though I have yet to fire up Laels kit for a brew( I have wired it and tested); my original does the Job well(70L brauclone), and I am only just getting together my single batch brauclone.

Looking forward to using the new system when it's done, let us know how the BrewmaniacEx firmware has worked for you, as noted above the wait times on fabbing this stuff from here in Australia is a bit of a drag, can't wait to give it a go.


----------



## terragady

Right, so you did it with logic FETs for SDA SCL signals? I think you could skip that and still power the LCD with 5V although 3v3 works also for LCD.

BrewPiLess is working great actually, at the beggining heat and cool is working almost all the time switching on and off to stabilize temperature and then after some time it is better. So I would change this "jumping" only. But maybe it is straight from BrewPi code. I do not know.

Brewing controller is still in testing I guess but it is usable and nice.


----------



## malt junkie

Yeah BrewPi takes a while to dial itself in (much like tuning mode for a PID) then it just does it's thing.


----------



## claypot

malt junkie said:


> Based on wemos mini, firmware is BrewmaniacEx by a member of HBT. The board I've designed will be a direct bolt in replacement(Laels KIt). The controller runs and serves it's own PHP web pages and has the ability to import beerxml (any budding web designers can have a swing at making the web interface a bit more flash). Also saves logs of each brew day. There is an extra actuator for HLT and space in the code for a second temp sensor. I have some of the final tidying up to do (mainly labels etc) this week before it gets sent off for prototyping. Somewhere around 6 units will be made and tested.
> At this time it's not clear on costs, Lael will give everyone a heads up once we're happy the unit and firmware are solid, then the "buy list" will begin, as before, the more participants, the bigger the saving for every one.
> Fingers crossed the first board has no errors, and we can sail through the testing phase. The current design is a little over engineered in a few areas, this may change due to costs ( an onboard SSR will cost more than the total cost the rest of the parts to go on the board, as we all found with Laels kit the onboard relay worked well and orders of magnitude cheaper).
> I'll keep you guys updated when I have some news, just be aware after sending off the design it could be 6 weeks or more before they are produced and then snail mail across the globe. When I have hardware in my hand I'll start a new thread with pictures etc.


Hey MJ,
Exciting news! 
Along with the WiFi web interface, the PID auto tune and sparge water temp management will be awesome additions to an already awesome setup! 
I've been using Lael's kit on my single batch 1V and love it. My intention was to build a double batch 1V next. Funny thing is I'm thinking of going the other way now and building a small batch unit like Matho's so I can try some random adventurous brews. 
I was going to just swap the controller over as required, but may look at building another complete unit now.
I'm keen to get a new board or 2 if this goes ahead. 
Cheers!


----------



## Jase

Hi all,

Finally got another opportunity to work on the brewery controller and think I'm close to finishing, I'm waiting on some bits from Lael and a sparky mate to look over it some time next week, hopefully!!!

I found a picture on this forum that helped with the pump wiring dilemma I couldn't figure out.

Trying to wire up the temperature probe and the wires seems too small for the board. Is it a case of simply strip some more wire and folding over?

I am getting this inspected by a sparky, but thought I'd post some pictures in the event of a major wiring stuff up that I need to fix prior to meeting up with the sparky.

View attachment 96063















Any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## lael

As far as I can tell over the web, it looks good. As always, get it checked by your electrician.

For the temp probe - if you are using the kit temp probe it should come pre-tinned and just insert, and clamp the terminals.


----------



## Jase

lael said:


> As far as I can tell over the web, it looks good. As always, get it checked by your electrician.
> 
> For the temp probe - if you are using the kit temp probe it should come pre-tinned and just insert, and clamp the terminals.


Thanks Lael. 

I am using one of the kit temp probes (I also grabbed 2 spare ones) and the wires still fall out after you clamp the terminals. I'll try the spare ones tonight. 

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## bevan

Jase said:


> Thanks Lael.
> 
> I am using one of the kit temp probes (I also grabbed 2 spare ones) and the wires still fall out after you clamp the terminals. I'll try the spare ones tonight.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


I had this issue at first but found that I wasn't putting them in the correct place to clamp. Bit hard to explain, I'll see if I can post pictures to show it.


----------



## bevan

Jase said:


> Thanks Lael.
> 
> I am using one of the kit temp probes (I also grabbed 2 spare ones) and the wires still fall out after you clamp the terminals. I'll try the spare ones tonight.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase




Is this the connector you have? If you screw it fully down so the metal wedge goes to the bottom ( in the photo to the right) then put wire in on the top (left hand side in the photo) of the wedge and turn the screw so that the wedge moves back to the top(left side in the photo) and clamps the wire. I at first put the wire below the metal wedge and it then doesn't have anything to clamp on the other side of it. Hope this helps and Hope I'm not telling you how to suck eggs.


----------



## Jase

bevan said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1490606625.729196.jpg
> Is this the connector you have? If you screw it fully down so the metal wedge goes to the bottom ( in the photo to the right) then put wire in on the top (left hand side in the photo) of the wedge and turn the screw so that the wedge moves back to the top(left side in the photo) and clamps the wire. I at first put the wire below the metal wedge and it then doesn't have anything to clamp on the other side of it. Hope this helps and Hope I'm not telling you how to suck eggs.


Thanks Bevan. That actually worked. You are a champion! I appreciate the help. 

Now to try to line up a sparky to check the wiring out.

Thanks again 

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## Futur

bigmacthepunker said:


> Sorry Nfragol for the delay.
> My GF settings. Still needs a little tweaking.
> 95
> 100
> 5
> 3500
> 5000
> 100%
> 1.00
> I haven't had time to sort a few issues. I have issue get to the boil timer stage. My boil temp is set at 110 deg when the GF comes to boil I use the down button to drop it to 100 deg to start the timer. But I have made some great beer already this way. I need to look at the timer as I want to setup the night before but my timer has a max of 2.4 hours. I played with the code. So I don't know if that has changed other things. Just the joys of brewin. Hope of this helps. Overshoots by 0.5 deg only sometimes.


Did you manage to resolve the issue of boil temp always starting at 110 deg? It's really haunting me, I can't get rid of it. I've tried wiping my arduino and installing both versions of ardbir 2.8.3, the official release and the development edition.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Hey Futur, 
I still have both issues still happening. The boil thing is simply dial back to start the boil timer. The 2.4 hour timer the one that's shits me to tears. I have also purchased another board and reloaded the software to try to fix these issues. I also has mucked around with code. I got the computer programmer at work looking at the code regarding the timer. I like to brew Sundays at 5am so 2.4 hour timer doesn't cut the mustard.
Cheers Bigmac


----------



## Mardoo

**** me, falling between the cracks is shit! That sucks!


----------



## bigmacthepunker

I still love my controller.


----------



## zwitter

Hey bigmacthepunker
In your setup is heat mode gas or electric?

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Jase

Hi there,

Happy Easter or Happy Holidays to all!!!

Decided to test the controller out today, with mixed results.

I have a process, when trying a new device that I have built, of plugging one component at a time to isolate an issue before it becomes a bigger issue.

So, the order went:

Power to connector: Tick
Power and heater: Tick
Power and Pump: Tick
Power and temp probe: Tick
Everything connected: Power works, pump works, but no heater.

I tried running in both manual and auto mode with no luck: (see picture one)




As you can see, the H is on, but the heater would not operate. I'm at a loss why the heater will not work. Any ideas?

Shortly after the first picture, the temp probe reset itself to 0.00 degrees, so I turned the controller off and on, and now none of the buttons work (see picture two)




I opened the controller (after unplugging everything) and everything seems to be ok, but nothing works now. Has anyone experienced this before?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## Jase

So a quick update........ I just triple checked everything again..... and turned the controller on, thought I'd check whether the temperature probe was loose in the back of the controller, unplugged the probe and plugged it back in and BANG!!!!!!




I'm seriously at a loss to work out what went wrong!!!!!! Has this happened to anyone else? It seems that things started to go seriously wrong with the board. The controller worked perfectly well this morning and as the day went on it encountered more and more issues. 

So, I suppose, I'll need another board, can someone please point me in the right direction?

Jase


----------



## malt junkie

Before you procede, detailed photos of wiring and the brauduino shield.


----------



## Jase

malt junkie said:


> Before you procede, detailed photos of wiring and the brauduino shield.


Hey MJ,

Thanks for the reply.

The controller wiring is detailed in post 682. Let me know if you require any more pictures.

The shield:










Cheers,
Jase


----------



## malt junkie

Are the pics post bang?


----------



## Jase

malt junkie said:


> Are the pics post bang?


The shield pics are MJ.


----------



## malt junkie

Ok close look at your wiring shows possible issue. Let me guess it went bang with the pump on!~




Jase said:


> IMG_8730 copy.jpg


This pic tells the story, the pump wires are a tad too long for the connector and you have tried to put 2 cables into each connector for the Heat SSR outlet. At some point the power from the pump circuit has come in contact with the SSR low voltage and put 240V through the entire board. 

1 tidy up the connections so there is no copper hanging out.
2 1 cable to the first SSR and from this SSR to the second one.
3 Have your sparky check it!!!


----------



## malt junkie

Note you may have fried the shield, no way to tell till it's put together again.


----------



## blotto

Wow, that sux! Does your pump cabling have any holes in it? It might have been wedged onto the mega's pins and shorted, could have been coincidence and just shorted while you were unplugging the temp probe? It certainly looks like a 240V short to me.


----------



## Jase

blotto said:


> Wow, that sux! Does your pump cabling have any holes in it? It might have been wedged onto the mega's pins and shorted, could have been coincidence and just shorted while you were unplugging the temp probe? It certainly looks like a 240V short to me.


Blotto,

I think you're right. I can see a hole in the pump wiring. I'll replace the wire and order a new board. General consensus: order a genuine board from Arduino and steer clear of the eBay ones?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## blotto

Yeah good question, I've had a few after market Uno's that have had their sockets fall off but when they are that cheap how can you go wrong? Jaycar has something resembling a mega not sure if it's suitable or not? https://www.jaycar.com.au/duinotech-mega/p/XC4420 might be faster than ordering one if you have a Jaycar close to home.


----------



## Jase

I have a Jaycar near work. I can order one from Arduino but I'm not sure what their delivery leadtime is like.


----------



## blotto

Yeah that's what I was thinking, not sure on delivery times from them. Maybe hit up Jaycar to see if it would be a suitable replacement? You might know but I'd have to ask as I know bugger all about these things. Lucky I can follow instructions


----------



## zwitter

Hi Jase
Did you run through ALL the setup section?
This is mandatory!
A common problem is not choosing electric for the heat. It defaults to gas in 2.8.3
Your photo shows that the temp connection has the resistor in the wires. This was something I introduced to stop the problems when plugging and un plugging the temp while the unit was powered on. Before that any time you plugged or unplugged the temp you would blow up the temp sensor. The resistor has saved countless temp sensors.

When you said went bang, exactly what sort of bang and from where?

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## blotto

zwitter said:


> This was something I introduced to stop the problems when plugging and un plugging the temp while the unit was powered on. Before that any time you plugged or unplugged the temp you would blow up the temp sensor. The resistor has saved countless temp sensors.
> 
> James
> Zwitter


Great work! I unplug my temp probe all the time due to having one in my HX and one in the kettle, that could have been a pain.


----------



## Jase

zwitter said:


> Hi Jase
> Did you run through ALL the setup section?
> This is mandatory!
> A common problem is not choosing electric for the heat. It defaults to gas in 2.8.3
> Your photo shows that the temp connection has the resistor in the wires. This was something I introduced to stop the problems when plugging and un plugging the temp while the unit was powered on. Before that any time you plugged or unplugged the temp you would blow up the temp sensor. The resistor has saved countless temp sensors.
> 
> When you said went bang, exactly what sort of bang and from where?
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hi James,

Thanks for the reply.

I had run through all of the setup sections after watching the youtube video on it a few weeks ago.

The bang was from the board, blotto was correct, the pump cable had been piercing by a pin. The pump cable was quite rigid. I'll grab some flex cable this week and will do a neater job of the wiring. 

I'm frustrated with myself, I should have known better.

Just need to work out whether to order a replacement board from Arduino or try the Jaycar board that blotto suggested.


Cheers,
Jase


----------



## bigmacthepunker

zwitter said:


> Hey bigmacthepunker
> In your setup is heat mode gas or electric?
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Hi James, yep on electric.


----------



## Jase

Sorry if you are reading this for a second time I added it to the wrong post:

Grabbed a UNO board from Jaycar. Updated the firmware and am back on track. Sorted. Thanks for everyone's help. 

Just one thing that is amiss. The heat led is not working and on reflection I don't think it has ever worked. If you look at the led close up you can see a faint light. I thought it may have been the led itself but I swapped the colours and the red led works well in Pump led socket. 

Any suggestions on how to fix the issue?

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## barneey

Hi Guys,

I'm in need of some advice please, a little while ago the unit developed a fault on the temp sensor, that I thought had been solved with a replacement lead however the unit now just reads 0.00c much the same as if a sensor wasnt connected, before that it was either 0 or 85c.

Anyway I thought I would take another look at the problem today & the unit wont switch on. I have tested the 12v power supply which is working + tried an independent power supply to make sure, still nothing. I thought I would plug in a USB power supply and the unit lights up but with a constant green LED on.

Any ideas what could have gone wrong?

Cheers


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

Has the unit been completed and used in a system successfully?
Is this one of the most recent units as sold by Lael?
Is it permanently fitted to the system?

I ask just to get current status and a context for problems.

I assume that you have it apart to plug the USB power in?
When you say lights up but with green led on, does the display initialise and the program run?

The unit will not work completely with USB power as it only powers the board not all the other parts of shield etc.

Do you plug and unplug the temp probe at all?

What is your electronics knowledge and test equipment available?
Where are you located?

James
Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Yep done quite a few successful brews with the fully built system, in a permanent setup, it was one of the 1st units sold by Lael. The probe is normally left in / had been left in since I finished the build. Things started to go wrong when the temp probe flicked between 0 & then got stuck on 85c during a brew.

With the supplied power supply / alternative supply = no led lights or display.

With a USB = display + able to change setting etc + a permanently on green LED, was flickering and now permanently on.

Test equipment would only be a multimeter, electronic knowledge more meccano than full on, soldering skill etc = OK

So would there would appear to be a power fault on the PCB? - what tests are needed / how to trace the fault line.

Location UK.

Many Thanks


----------



## barneey

Oh and the buzzer stopped working long ago.


----------



## malt junkie

Sounds like one of a few posible issues with the supply circuit. Easiest would be missing jumpers. Some pictures would help.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

Ok that sets the scene nicely. What connector is on the temp probe connection? The round multi pin one? Is the wiring all neat with no exposed bare wire that could short out anywhere?

One of the changes I made to the later version was to put a resistor in the positive power connection of the temp connection to the socket. As the mini stereo connection would otherwise short the connections and blow the temp probe. The older ones did not have this safety feature.

The buzzer and some of the other outputs rely on switching 12v to control the real world interface. USB only powers the arduino and some 5v powered bits.

There are 3 transistors that do this 12v switching and they can go pop. They were all the same but there were at least 2 different ones we used. I think this version was 2n2222a

Are you using a 240v pump?

Is the relay 5v or 12v version? There was a jumper for this on the PCB

To do testing without killing anyone it is best to remove the 240 from the PCB and make sure that the SSR connections and any other 240v connections are well insulated or disconnected.

I will put together a series of fault finding steps. I will refer to the 2013 early Lael kit in this instance but it is similar for all.

To prepare for the testing, set the board up where you can access the pcb, NO 240v connected. Probably fun a longer cable to the 12v supply to make moving PCB a little easier.

Start by measuring the 12v supply at the screw heads of the plug where the 12v plugs in to the shield PCB ?=
The 12v is just a direct feed from the external supply.

Then measure the 5v on the arduino pin or the 5v jumper near the relay or pin 2 of the LCD ?=
The 5v is "derived" from the 12v supply by a circuit on the Arduino assy. (Or direct from the USB supply if you connect that) never connect both USB and 12v supply.

I will post the next steps tonight. Pump, heat and buzzer.

Probably an idea to have a couple of spare resistors and bit of wire handy if you have them, maybe some spares like transistors but dont buy them yet.


James
Zwitter

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

The lead on the temp probe is a stereo jack plug I have as a matter of course renewed the this plug + replaced the socket and wire with a spare on I had from the original kit, this has a resistor on the Red wire, now I understand why that was in place (so have at least learn something else today  )

I will look and see what transistors I have on the board, assuming they are marked, can these be tested in situ -or need to be taken off, my multimeter does have a PNP / NPN test socket on it, but it might be worth just replacing?

I will carry out the test as mentioned later day (time difference 9hrs)


----------



## barneey

& if it helps the board version is 1.0


----------



## barneey

The tranys appear to have the marking p2n2 222a 617 on them


----------



## malt junkie

Before checking the PNP's I'd check there is current at the screw terminals power in(with psu attached not usb), then the 7805 (the yellow box behind the onboard relay) input(12v) and output(5v), also that all the jumpers are correctly placed (check the pics posted by jase over the last 2 pages).

Cheers 
Mike


----------



## barneey

With a separate 12v supply plugged in no Arduino, I have a 12v supply measured on the jumper (next to r7) and the GND on the Arduino pin. On the Arduino pins there is no voltage on either 3.3v or 5v & GND


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey
Are the transistors all in one straight line on the board or are two together and the third right over by itself on the edge of the board?

Problem is they all seem to be version 1
James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Two together + 1 by itself (is the picture posted not working?)

12v / 5v jumper = no power on the 5v side


----------



## zwitter

Hi Malt junkie

Hey mike what is this board you speak of with a yellow 7805 behind the relay?

On the shield the yellow thing next to the relay is a 250vac capacitor that is part of the snubber circuit to stop the screen scramble issue when using a 240vac pump.

There is a 5 v regulator and I think it may be a 78L05 on the arduino itself. We never bothered to implement any other 5 volt regulator as we use very little current at 5v.

The tracks on the board or the jumper marked with 5v and 12v was to allow 2 different relays to be used. One was 5v and the other 12v coils but either is fine as long as the correct voltage to drive it is chosen.

I did suggest measuring the 5v above and the 12v input. This is a starting point.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

malt junkie said:


> Before checking the PNP's I'd check there is current at the screw terminals power in(with psu attached not usb), then the 7805 (the yellow box behind the onboard relay) input(12v) and output(5v), also that all the jumpers are correctly placed (check the pics posted by jase over the last 2 pages).
> 
> Cheers
> Mike


I have checked between a GND + both terminals on the yellow box and there is no voltage on either of the terminals. 

I have never removed and jumpers since owning the board & it was up and running 1yr +.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

Ok I see photo now. That is a later board but I know which one you have now.

The 5v is derived from the 12 on the arduino.

Are you running 2.8.3x4en Ard Bir? On an Arduino?
Is the Arduino an Uno R3? Or a mega or ?
James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

You said that when powering the board with USB you see the Software boot up?
Version?
If it boots then carefully check the 5v. Can check from the ground pin of the 12v input and the 5v end of the 12v or 5v selection jumper near relay or pin 2 of the LCD or the pin marked 5v of the arduino socket.

You must be very careful to get the board orientated correctly when plugging in. I killed a mega plugging in the wrong way.

Also be very careful measuring any thing that tou do not short out any pins as that can be bad.

James
Zwitter

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

The board model is Mega 2560 R3

Software 2.8.3TC8


BUT that gave me an idea, I have a spare Uno board, which I have just loaded, that plugged in & the screen has come to life again.






The Green LED light though is still on permanently. I cannot seem to select MAN mode from the menu (although if I say select the auto mode the up and down buttons work, so not a bad button circuit)


----------



## barneey

Just tried again & have noticed some a little weird, I am sure I have not swapped any wires around but the UP & Down buttons are now reversed, so by pressing the Up button I can get into the manual mode. Although as mentioned I am sure I have not touched anything and the unit was working properly before -unless I am going a little mad.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

Ok I found the same board and have it on the bench here working fine.
Uno is what I am using as it happens.

Did you choose all the options before compiling for the board type language and LCD etc?

That version had the individual wires on the switches that did have a habit of coming off the back of the switches. May be worth checking these?

And the voltages are all OK?

Green led is pump so is the relay on when the led is on? 

Just a point that to select manual you need to hold the button for 2 seconds?

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barney

DId you run through setup and set the basics?

Buttons should not be reversed.

Hold the button for setup mode for 2 seconds.

Try plugging in temp when the unit is off and then turn on and see if it registers?

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## zwitter

Barneey
Is the volt meter you have a digital type?
I wonder if you can put it on AC voltage range and then measure the 12v dc for me. It will measure the AC ripple. This should be almost zero.
James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Thanks for the note on the options, being a donut I programed the Uno board with "2" and not the Matho board option, so reprogrammed & everything now appears to be OK even the temperature prob is working (or at least displaying 21c & not 0 or 85c), so the new wire seems to have worked correctly on that fix.

I'll give the system a full road test again this afternoon to see if any problems still exist.

I can only imagine yesterday when I took the Mega Board out I must have damaged it somehow, what threw me was it was working with the USB supply.

In the meantime many thanks for your help & time in resolving these issue, most of which seem to have been my own doing.

Fingers crossed its all is now OK


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

No problems.
Amazing how often people forget the. Setup.

Try reprogramming the mega or buy another one on ebay or just use the uno.

You are most welcom

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Just a follow up, everything is working well and as it should.

Cheers


----------



## Lionman

Is this worth getting for a single vessel system?


----------



## zwitter

Hi lionman

This was designed for a single vessel.

It controls the temp and time for the mash stages and the pump circulation. Then it controls the boil with time alarms for the hop additions. There are other variations possible but that is the basic function.

The version Lael and others put together has the ability to have 2 power circuits in so that the load of 2 big elements can be split on 2 phases. They can be setup for low voltage 12 v pump or 240v pump. They support different LCD displays gas or electric heating and so many languages it makes your head spin.

There are versions of software that support wifi, bluetooth, multiple elements in different pots and different temp probes. I think there is even valve support out there. And there is one fellow who has written a totally different version that is supported in our hardware.

So hell yes

James
Zwitter



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Lionman

Thaks for the run down, zwitter.

I'm trying to be convinced as I think its an awesome device, but I'm finding it hard to justify. A $10 STC1000 can control mash temp, and not convinced anything other than a single step infusion being needed, and pump easily controllable with a simple switch.

It's a big investment (almost more than the rest of my setup combined) for some fancy functionality that in my mind doesn't seem to be necessary.

I can see this type of thing being more value on a bigger system that has more parts that can be automated.


----------



## malt junkie

Lionman said:


> Thaks for the run down, zwitter.
> 
> I'm trying to be convinced as I think its an awesome device, but I'm finding it hard to justify. A $10 STC1000 can control mash temp, and not convinced anything other than a single step infusion being needed, and pump easily controllable with a simple switch.
> 
> It's a big investment (almost more than the rest of my setup combined) for some fancy functionality that in my mind doesn't seem to be necessary.
> 
> I can see this type of thing being more value on a bigger system that has more parts that can be automated.


I do see what your saying however there's a little more to it. The pump goes through rest cycles, temp control is pid not just an on off thermostat an Stc can't switch as fast therefore less temp control. I mow the lawn or play wth the kids throughout most of my brew day, this will be easier still with the upcomming wifi upgrade.


----------



## ramu_gupta

Love the Brauduino - great unit - worked flawlessly on my GF.

However - I think there is a problem with my temperature probe.

I place the Brau in Manual Mode and connect the pump and heater to the GF - both heater and pump turn on and do the right thing.

When I connect the temperature probe and try the Heater - it doesn't heat (The pump works tho). The H symbol appears on the LCD screen but the red LED doesn't light up and the heater doesn't work.

Any advice from the experts out there?


----------



## zwitter

Hi ramu gupta

Does the temp probe actually read the temperature?

In manual mode you need to set the temp and that must be higher than the current temperature for the element to be turned on. It is not just an on and off function it is a PID temperature controlled heating.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ramu_gupta

Ah James - I think you are spot on. 
The temperature was being displayed and the set temp was lower than the current temp.

Thanks so much.

Always something to learn.

John


----------



## matho

This is so cool, a big that thanks to Lael and Zwitter and a lot of others for taking this project much much further than I could possibly have done. A massive thank you to all of those that have helped others to sort out problems with their brauduino's. So after my daughters brain injury it has taken me a long time to get back to brewing but now we are in our new house and settling in I'm getting my brewing mojo back and I have been brewing with the braumiser a bit. I have a couple of changes to the original code I want to do but I probably won't push them because the code has evolved so much from my hack job. One thing I want to add is if I set a stage time to 0 it pauses for me and I'm seriously looking into Bluetooth. One last thing is a get a real buzz that this has gone global.


----------



## malt junkie

matho said:


> This is so cool, a big that thanks to Lael and Zwitter and a lot of others for taking this project much much further than I could possibly have done. A massive thank you to all of those that have helped others to sort out problems with their brauduino's. So after my daughters brain injury it has taken me a long time to get back to brewing but now we are in our new house and settling in I'm getting my brewing mojo back and I have been brewing with the braumiser a bit. I have a couple of changes to the original code I want to do but I probably won't push them because the code has evolved so much from my hack job. One thing I want to add is if I set a stage time to 0 it pauses for me and I'm seriously looking into Bluetooth. One last thing is a get a real buzz that this has gone global.


Received wifi boards in the post yesterday. 

I started the original thread beging you for your originalboard.(still in use). Seems only appropriate I return the favour, should have every thing together in the next week or so. Then a quick functionality test. This board is proto 1 there's a few things I want to upgrade/change for rev 2.

Cheers
Mike


----------



## matho

Those boards look good Mike! The changes I'm making will be a personal thing as its more about me learning how to do it than the outcome. I'm really keen to get my teeth into the Internet of things.


----------



## gap

matho said:


> Those boards look good Mike! The changes I'm making will be a personal thing as its more about me learning how to do it than the outcome. I'm really keen to get my teeth into the Internet of things.


Great to see you on here again Steve, and glad you have the brewing mojo back again.
Regards
Graeme


----------



## zwitter

matho said:


> This is so cool, a big that thanks to Lael and Zwitter and a lot of others for taking this project much much further than I could possibly have done. A massive thank you to all of those that have helped others to sort out problems with their brauduino's. So after my daughters brain injury it has taken me a long time to get back to brewing but now we are in our new house and settling in ......
> 
> Hi Matho
> 
> Wow like being touched by brewing royalty!
> 
> It has been truly amazing working with all these great people on this project. I have met heaps of really amazing people and connected with brewers around the world. Really thank you for the original.
> 
> Actually one person I have not met is you. I really hope you and your daughter and family are all doing well. You never know where life leads you but maybe one day, who knows.
> 
> All the very best
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Me again :unsure:

I set up to brew this morning and used the delay function, 8+ hrs. When I went out to the BM clone this morning the water was at strike temp but the display was scrambled and flickering, I simply unplugged the unit and powered on again = all was back to normal. Is there a likely cause to this problem?

Many Thanks


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barney

Scrambled screen was a bad problem early on in this controllers history. 

Firstly the fault is scrambled LD but the software does keep running in the background.

We put a snubber circuit on the relay contacts as we found it was switching 240v pumps that caused the problem. We varied the values for best results. Your board does have a snubber. It is the big yellow cap and resistor next to the relay.

The other main thing was physically separating the cabling. So all 12volt and control cabling was run separate from the 240volt cabling. Also advised to keep the cabling short. Can put a slight twist in the cables or bunch the different groups with cable ties but as long as they are physically separated and the 240v is kept away from the circuit boards it eliminated the problem.

The reason the cabling is important and the snubber is that when relays switch, they do it regardless of the point in the cycle of the ac voltage. So sometimes it may switch at a low voltage in the cycle and high voltage at other times. Plus the reverse EMF (electro motive force) from collapsing magnetic fields etc from the motor and you get sparks across the relay terminals. Sparks generate radio waves, EMP (electo magnetic pulse) in fact spark gap was the initial global wireless transmission system used for morse code so is very efficient. The problem in the controller is it is "received" by the sensitive circuits in the Arduino and LCD and causes the scramble. The wires act like aerials to transmit and receive.

The board used a relay as some people wanted to use the LBP little brown pump 12volt. The alternative is to use SSR solid state relay and an ac pump like the Chugger or the 809 etc. SSR will turn on at any point in the voltage wave but will only turn off as the voltage crosses zero, so no spark and no interference. 

Two ways to do this. 

One I documented and posted here some time back with a small SSR. Basically remove the relay and solder it in or can mount remote to the pcb as I did. Does require some soldering skills. Relay can actually be left in the board too if desired, just makes soldering a little trickier. THIS IS WHAT I DID ON MINE AND NEVER HAD A SCRAMBLE SINCE. Only had a rare one before but this is a 100% fix

Two is easier if you modify the wiring and use a big SSR to drive the pump. The latest version of our controller had 2 SSRs to drive 2 elements. The change was to use the relay to switch 12volts and the 12volts then used to drive the second SSR and the SSR then connected to switch the pump. Pump must be an ac type at 240v or 110 in USA etc.

There are other options like shielding. I have a piece of plastic between the pcb and the back of the box. A bit of the lidmof an old shirt box or the like is fine or if you can get some they make a fibre based material for the purpose and can get it with aluminium on one side or better still in the middle and earth the aluminium layer.

Ferrite beads / cores etc can help on the motor cabling.

Let me know

James
Zwitter
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ramu_gupta

Hello again

Playing around with a Pi Zero and want to use the spare temperature probe I got with this controller.

Can someone tell me the type of thermometer it is (DS18b20?) and the purpose of the resistor on the red wire?

Thanks


----------



## zwitter

Hi Ramu-Gupta

Yes is an18b20 the exact version I do not know. There are various tolerance versions but all work the same.

The resistor is to limit the current in the power positive lead. With the concentric plug it shorts out when inserted and removed and that could damage the sensor. So I put a resistor in the cable to reduce the available current. The 18b20 can operate with only 2 wires and very low voltage and current so it performs perfectly and now is virtually impossible to blow it up in normal use.

Before it would get damaged and show 85 or 0 permanaently.

Cheers

James
Zwitter

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ramu_gupta

Thanks again James.
Much appreciated.


----------



## barneey

Had a little time to play with the controller again, the scrambled screen issue is now fixed.

I now however have another problem the temp will read upto 50c and then gets stuck so at near boiling point it still reads 50c.

I am tempted to install another temp probe/ thermowell, just a quick question if using a standard 18b20 do I need to add a resistor 4.7k between the data & power?

Many Thanks


----------



## zwitter

Hi Barneey

As above the resistor is to prevent the temp sensor from being blown up as it is connected or disconnected. This was more of an issue specifically with the 2.5mm stereo plug / socket. But it cant hurt either. 

So if you are going to hard wire or connect when off and not plug or unplug while powered on then no it is not required.

I have not heard of a temp probe that works up to a temp then stops. Maybe software?

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## barneey

Thanks, I managed to get hold of a spare board that wasn't being used, the probe / temp issue still occurred. I have now taken out the original temperature probe, removed the jack plug and wired the new sensor into the green plug, so will not be fitting the old resistor as there is very little / no chance of disconnection unless the unit/box is open.

The new sensor, similar to this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DS18B20-18B20-1-WIRE-Digital-Thermometer-in-waterproof-casing-BRAND-NEW-UK-STOCK-/190784248550 requires a 4.7k resistor between the data & power so I have also hard wired this to the green plug, so far the unit appears to working fine without any modification to software (apart from the temp offset addition in the setup).

I am assuming the 4.7k resistor is the correct way to proceed, did the original one have one built in, or didn't need one?

I am still mystified why the original sensor had / developed a problem / if indeed it actually does or it was another gremlin in the system wiring somewhere, causing the issue. It wouldn't cost much for me to send you the probe if you wanted to carryout any experimental tests on the probe, just let me know.

I


----------



## malt junkie

The 4.7k resistor is already onboard there should be no need for another, though in real terms a second won't adversely affect readings.


----------



## barneey

Many thanks, have tested out the system and everything seems to be working fine again.


----------



## lael

barneey said:


> Many thanks, have tested out the system and everything seems to be working fine again.


Hi Barneey,

In my experience those sort of gremlins are often related to tight wiring in the box putting strange pressure on wires.

The temp probe may have gone faulty over time - from memory I sent you a spare when I sent the kits over your way. Do you still have a spare?


----------



## Jase

Hi all,

Finally got an opportunity to brew on the new single vessel system. It was an awesome brew day, and even with a few teething problems it was the easiest brew day I have ever had.

The only issue I seem to have that the malt pipe wasn't draining fast enough. I had to adjust the mash in water volume to keep the mash level above the elements. I will either drill more holes or cut some slits in the bottom of the malt pipe. This should take care of all of the issues.

Massive thanks to all that help put this together, especially Lael. A champion bloke!!!!


View attachment 97707


View attachment 97708


View attachment 97709


View attachment 97710


View attachment 97711



Cheers,
Jase


----------



## Jase

Hi all,

Finally got an opportunity to brew on the new single vessel system. It was an awesome brew day, and even with a few teething problems it was the easiest brew day I have ever had.

The only issue I seem to have that the malt pipe wasn't draining fast enough. I had to adjust the mash in water volume to keep the mash level above the elements. I will either drill more holes or cut some slits in the bottom of the malt pipe. This should take care of all of the issues.

Massive thanks to all that helped put this together, especially Lael. A champion bloke!!!!


View attachment 97707


View attachment 97708


View attachment 97709


View attachment 97710


View attachment 97711



Cheers,
Jase


----------



## zwitter

Resistors for temp probes



malt junkie said:


> The 4.7k resistor is already onboard there should be no need for another, though in real terms a second won't adversely affect readings.


Actually there are 2 resistors for the temp probe circuitry. The one on the board is to pull the data line high as the probe (DS18b20) has an open collector output. The other built into the socket wiring is in the positive wire in series as a current limiting device to prevent damage when plugging and unplugging the probe.

The probe is a wonderful device ans can actually be used in a 2 wire configuration and multiples can all be connected to the same pin and they then use their unique addresses to communicate. Really smart little devices.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## malt junkie

zwitter said:


> Resistors for temp probes
> 
> 
> Actually there are 2 resistors for the temp probe circuitry. The one on the board is to pull the data line high as the probe (DS18b20) has an open collector output. The other built into the socket wiring is in the positive wire in series as a current limiting device to prevent damage when plugging and unplugging the probe.
> 
> The probe is a wonderful device ans can actually be used in a 2 wire configuration and multiples can all be connected to the same pin and they then use their unique addresses to communicate. Really smart little devices.
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Is there a reason the current limiting circuit couldn't be onboard rather than the socket wiring? As you may be aware I'm designing the wifi edition.


----------



## Meddo

Hi all, I've got two of these probes and want to use the second one as a temperature monitor (readout only) for the cold side of my counterflow wort chiller since it's a great size and should be easy to install into a tri-clamp fitting. Is there an easy, no-programming-required method of getting a temperature readout from the probe? I'm happy to cut the 3.5mm plug off and replace it or wire directly into a readout device, but I'd prefer not to have to play with software for this particular job if I can avoid it.

Thanks in advance,


----------



## malt junkie

The controller is only programed for ONE sensor, adding multiple sensors and being able to allocate these to specific tasks is a fair chunk of coding. If you have Lael's kit with the Atmega 2560 it has room for more code, the uno will not. The hardware is the easy bit. BrewmaniacEX (whole new board etc but will bolt into Laels kit) has multiple sensor input already coded. I know I've been promising, wrong parts and china's postage have held me back.

cheers
MJ


----------



## Meddo

Thanks @malt junkie, I probably (definitely, upon re-reading it) worded that poorly though - I'm happy for the second probe to be independent of the controller, I basically just want a digital display that I can put on the probe to effectively use it as a thermometer to check visually.

Cheers,


----------



## malt junkie

K..... I have seen displays for PT100 sensors(not what we use in these controllers) on fleabay, probably the best way to go. Then you can keep the spare as a spare. If I find them I'll link.


----------



## Gibbo411

I'd just like to post my interest in a wifi model once they become available.


----------



## malt junkie

Meddo said:


> Thanks @malt junkie, I probably (definitely, upon re-reading it) worded that poorly though - I'm happy for the second probe to be independent of the controller, I basically just want a digital display that I can put on the probe to effectively use it as a thermometer to check visually.
> 
> Cheers,


One of these and one of these

all told with a box maybe $60 job done

ED link updated, note the sensor is 1/2" to make inline simpler


----------



## Meddo

malt junkie said:


> One of these and one of these
> 
> all told with a box maybe $60 job done



Thanks mate, that second link is incomplete though, would you mind updating please?

Cheers,


----------



## malt junkie

Done


----------



## zwitter

Hi Meddo

If your probe is the one supplied with the Brauduino kit then it is a DS18b20 not a pt100

If you go to ebay and search for " 18b20 display" you will get all sorts of displays with alarms and other options. From less than $10

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Meddo

zwitter said:


> Hi Meddo
> 
> If your probe is the one supplied with the Brauduino kit then it is a DS18b20 not a pt100
> 
> If you go to ebay and search for " 18b20 display" you will get all sorts of displays with alarms and other options. From less than $10
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



That's great, thanks zwitter (and thanks @malt junkie). Using my spare probe is likely to be a better solution for me since the Pt100 probes all seem to be minimum 50mm compared to the neat stubby little thing that came with the kit, and the smaller the better for my use case (fitting to a 1.5" tri clamp end cap and mounting to the stem of one of these https://www.glaciertanks.com/product.cgi?group=6792&product=5345).

So if I got something like this - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Blue-Red...r-Module-Photosensitive-Control-/382144011621 - are you able to tell whether the probe would basically be plug-and-play, or would I need to remove the in-line resistor? My preference would be to keep the current probe and wiring intact and connect a 3.5mm jack to the display so that I could interchange the two probes as required.

Also does anyone remember off the top of their head what the correct hole size is for mounting the probe/thermowell?

Happy to take this to PMs if side-tracking the thread.

Thanks again,


----------



## zwitter

Hi Meddo

The resistor is in the socket half of the brauduino cable.

I am reasonably sure that you could just use the harness with resistor in it and should work fine. Otherwise a socket can be bought on ebay or at Jaycar or similar and just wire that up. Just get the connections correct or the probe will die.

I think the hole was 10mm

I actually purchased a couple of the really small ones and will wire them up when they arrive.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Meddo

zwitter said:


> Hi Meddo
> 
> The resistor is in the socket half of the brauduino cable.
> 
> I am reasonably sure that you could just use the harness with resistor in it and should work fine. Otherwise a socket can be bought on ebay or at Jaycar or similar and just wire that up. Just get the connections correct or the probe will die.
> 
> I think the hole was 10mm
> 
> I actually purchased a couple of the really small ones and will wire them up when they arrive.
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



Hey James, this got pushed to the backburner for me briefly so I haven't progressed at all, have yours arrived yet? Curious to see what you come up with.

Cheers,


----------



## zwitter

Hi Meddo

Patience my good man.
Nope no sign of them yet.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## matt211181

zwitter said:


> Hi Meddo
> 
> The resistor is in the socket half of the brauduino cable.
> 
> I am reasonably sure that you could just use the harness with resistor in it and should work fine. Otherwise a socket can be bought on ebay or at Jaycar or similar and just wire that up. Just get the connections correct or the probe will die.
> 
> I think the hole was 10mm
> 
> I actually purchased a couple of the really small ones and will wire them up when they arrive.
> 
> James
> Zwitter
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD




I'm looking to cut the existing temp sensor cable, and soldering the wires onto a new 3.5mm socket and jack (something like this: https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-5mm-stereo-line-socket/p/PS0134 and https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-5mm-stereo-plug/p/PP0130). This is so I can have a short cable length attached to the probe (attached to the kettle), so I can more easily disconnect the kettle from the controller (rather than fiddling around at the back of the controller), so I can take the kettle outside to clean etc.... (my controller isn't permanently mounted to the main vessel)

Zwitter - would you know the correct temp sensor wiring for the 3.5mm socket/jack?

Cheers!
Matt


----------



## zwitter

Hi Matt 253525

Nah, can look it up but then if you have a spare you will have both parts anyway?

Red +5
Black Gnd
Yellow is data

As to which on which pin can not remember but as Imsay is probably on here in build threads or can just look at the one you have.

If you really get stuck I could go looking.
James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Meddo

Hey @zwitter, I'm just about to order a few of these displays now, plus a few extra probes so I can take readings at multiple points. Just wondering if the data line from these probes can be split so as to feed both my controller and a separate display from a single probe - any idea whether I can do this?

Cheers,


----------



## malt junkie

They're one a one wire(data) *BUS. *Bus topology is the same as a road bus with the stops along the way being the one-wire devices. However they will to a degree work in star topology (where each device connects at a single point).


----------



## zwitter

Hi Meddo

Interesting idea, never tried.
These temp sensors are really cool in their design. They are designed to have 3 wires positive supply, ground and data. That data line is multi drop so you can connect a couple of hundred sensors in parallel and they will all communicate with a unique id then data so you can tell them all apart. Brewpi uses this to connect 3 temp sensors but you can keep adding more.

I am thinking of adding a few extra temp probes to my matho system and the hardware is simple, just make a y connector and add an extra probe.

In fact these sensors can be used with 2 wires where the data line has power on it as well. Really versatile little things and cheap as well.

The problem in having two masters on the one sensor is that both would try to drive the data line and that would not really work. May blow various bits up. I do not think I would even try it. You can just put two temp sensors in same place. You could even make your own sensors with two of the little chips in the housing.

James
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Meddo

OK, thanks for the answers @malt junkie and @zwitter, makes sense. My conceptual system design is to have temp sensors at four points - vessel/system temp (also effectively CFC wort in), CFC wort out, CFC water in, and CFC water out - the latter two just for information purposes. Ideally I'd be displaying all four readouts in a dedicated box with four of those little eBay displays, and also have the two wort sensors being available to the Matho's controller for automation purposes (normally the vessel sensor but just unplug and switch between the two if required). Unfortunately the tri-clamp mounts I'm using for those two don't really have room to install duplicate secondary sensors.

Sounds like I may be shitouttaluck with that design going on your explanations of the data bus so I may just need to have the dedicated temp box displaying three of the four with the other one going into the controller.

As an alternative perhaps, is there any (simple) way that the controller can replicate the sensor data on an output port to feed an external display module? I don't even know if the board has any outputs ports available, sorry about my lack of expertise regarding these jiggers and thanks for your patience with helping out.


----------



## zwitter

Hi Meddo

Outputs yes there are many possibilities. But none are simple or easy.

If you want to make software changes then you could have an external display and send as much data as you like. There are some nice oled displays around now and very cheap.

There is the onewire bus on the Arduino and can get these displays with onewire interfaces. There is also wifi as an option

There is the synchronous data bus as well. 

There is one option built in to the Arduino sketch tool where it creates a virtual display on your PC attached to the Arduino via the USB port. But you would need to have extra commands added to the software.

There are various people modifying the code on github. Even a guy who rewrote the lot and I think his code supported multiple control of temp in pots and extra sensors. This was described here some time back.

Maybe you could consider some other options like the BCS control box. 

When we improved on the Matho box we had to choose some options that suited a lot of people, which we did. But there are others pushing on with more options and more capabilities.

Stay tuned.

James 
Zwitter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ramu_gupta

Can anyone suggest which component might be failing in my situation?

When the wort temperature is just past 98 C - the heater gets switched off for some reason. It doesn't matter whether I set the unit to manual mode or automatic mode - once this has happened - even when I turn the brauduino on and off - I cannot get the heater to turn on again once the temperature is greater than 98. The heater LED is still lit though.

Would this be SSR?


----------



## Meddo

What's your boil temp set at? Might be a bit low.


----------



## ramu_gupta

Boil temp is 100. 

The unit wont control the heater at all now - pump works though.

Going to open up the unit tonight and have a look. 
Will check for switching voltage on SSR, look for any loose wires.


----------



## ramu_gupta

All sorted now. Pulled the unit apart and all devices were doing their thing.

Then I pulled the powercon plugs apart and one of them had a loose wire. Simply re-tightened.

Need to keep an eye on that - must've come loose pulling the plugs out of and into the brauduino over a few hundred times. 
Might leave them connected now.


----------



## checkers

Hey guys,

I've got a question about the temp probe.. I was looking to buy one of these from nev at online brewing supplies but was worried the temp probe wouldn't work with it.. anyone know if it does or if a probe I can buy that will??


----------



## malt junkie

You can get DS18b20 probes to suit (quick ebay search will sort you) that setup you will need to wire the appropriate plug to suit or alternatively wire straight from the board.
One point to make is to make sure you don't get parasite sensors.

ED: If you had your location up I'd offer you one of my spares. And Nev's kit is a quality bit of gear!


----------



## checkers

I'm in Perth.. what is a parasite sensor?? Sorry I'm a chippy and electronics goes straight over my head!


----------



## checkers

malt junkie said:


> You can get DS18b20 probes to suit (quick ebay search will sort you) that setup you will need to wire the appropriate plug to suit or alternatively wire straight from the board.
> One point to make is to make sure you don't get parasite sensors.
> 
> ED: If you had your location up I'd offer you one of my spares. And Nev's kit is a quality bit of gear!





I'm in Perth.. what is a parasite sensor?? Sorry I'm a chippy and electronics goes straight over my head!


----------



## malt junkie

checkers said:


> I'm in Perth.. what is a parasite sensor?? Sorry I'm a chippy and electronics goes straight over my head!


Last time I was in Perth I worked as a hammer hand for a mate of mine; sadly he passed away a few years back. Parasite sensors can essentially run off just 2 wires, this makes them incompatible with the standard implementation (though they still have 3). Unfortunately some ebay sellers don't specify which they are selling. There is a sketch you can run to check if a sensor is running in parasite mode, let me know if/ when you get some probes in and I'll link the sketch.


----------



## checkers

malt junkie said:


> Last time I was in Perth I worked as a hammer hand for a mate of mine; sadly he passed away a few years back. Parasite sensors can essentially run off just 2 wires, this makes them incompatible with the standard implementation (though they still have 3). Unfortunately some ebay sellers don't specify which they are selling. There is a sketch you can run to check if a sensor is running in parasite mode, let me know if/ when you get some probes in and I'll link the sketch.



Sorry to hear..
I'll have a chat to nev as he sells the probes you are talking about.. once I get one I will buy a headphone jack and see if anyone on here knows how to wire it up!!


----------



## Bruer

Hey All,

I'm looking to put together a 3 V RIMs system. The system will have 2 pumps, the RIMs, and two heating elements (HLT and BK; only the HLT needs temp control). From what I understand of the unit, it can control the temp of 1 item, a pump and an auxiliary.

I was thinking of the following set up:

Controller 1:
*Temp - HLT temp control
*Pump 1 - for recycling the HLT (to avoid stratification) and pumping over to the MT
*Auxiliary - nothing

Controller 2
*Temp - RIMs temp control
*Pump 2 - pump through RIMs and sparge arm
*Auxiliary - BK Element

Is this the sort of thing the the Brauduino can deal with? Will i need to run the two units off of separate house circuits (I'm renting and on standard 10A fuses)? Will I need another SSR for the Auxiliary BK Element on Controller 2?


----------



## lael

Bruer said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I'm looking to put together a 3 V RIMs system. The system will have 2 pumps, the RIMs, and two heating elements (HLT and BK; only the HLT needs temp control). From what I understand of the unit, it can control the temp of 1 item, a pump and an auxiliary.
> 
> I was thinking of the following set up:
> 
> Controller 1:
> *Temp - HLT temp control
> *Pump 1 - for recycling the HLT (to avoid stratification) and pumping over to the MT
> *Auxiliary - nothing
> 
> Controller 2
> *Temp - RIMs temp control
> *Pump 2 - pump through RIMs and sparge arm
> *Auxiliary - BK Element
> 
> Is this the sort of thing the the Brauduino can deal with? Will i need to run the two units off of separate house circuits (I'm renting and on standard 10A fuses)? Will I need another SSR for the Auxiliary BK Element on Controller 2?
> 
> View attachment 108643



Yes, easily. For Controller 1 you would want to run the unit on manual and have your pump and heat element on. You can do this on 1 circuit. 

For controller 2 - you can run programmed stepped mashing routines. The controller comes with the capacity to run 2x 240V 10A heating circuits (with SSR provided to run 2 circuits). You will need another 2 10A circuits for this, or a circuit with 20A rated lines and fuses/RCDs. Check with an electrician if unsure what you have.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

I will add it here too.Does anybody know how to fix my delay timer issue. I can only set it to a max 2.40 hours. I even bought another mega board and reloaded the software and still at 2.40 hours. If I could make the delay for seven hours, I could setup at 10pm then mash in at 5.am on Sunday morning. My Aldi timer didn't work last Saturday night. Up at 5.30am last Sunday mashed in at 7.30. Not happy Jan. help is much needed


----------



## eresh666

I finally put mine together, need to run a full test tomorrow but already found one problem. 

The dog thinks the buzzer is the smoke alarm going off and freaks out  might have to see if I can find something else.


----------



## Neolithic

Hi guys, finally got round to building my second Lael controller last week.

None of the 240v is wired so basically a layout build with buttons temp sensor.

When I power up off a usb cable it boots into ardbir the after a few seconds the screen contrast goes and the screen goes off as do the lights on the mega.

Tested the mega in my other box and it’s fine. Any ideas?

Have written to Lael but think he’s off as I know he’s a busy guy.

Cheers

Matt


----------



## malt junkie

Neolithic said:


> Hi guys, finally got round to building my second Lael controller last week.
> 
> None of the 240v is wired so basically a layout build with buttons temp sensor.
> 
> When I power up off a usb cable it boots into ardbir the after a few seconds the screen contrast goes and the screen goes off as do the lights on the mega.
> 
> Tested the mega in my other box and it’s fine. Any ideas?
> 
> Have written to Lael but think he’s off as I know he’s a busy guy.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Matt


If you have a working box try switching out the mega's 
If it still fails then you have a problem and the mega will need replacing.


----------



## Neolithic

I have swapped the Mega’s over between my good box and both work normally in the good box. I think I must have a duff shield / screen.

Matt


----------



## malt junkie

not necessarily, usb could be flakey you'd need to power via the 12v supply to be certain.


----------



## lespaul

Hi,
Midway through a brew and thinking "this is taking forever to get to the boil", check the controller and it's not working.
Opened it up and it had a faint smoke smell. All cables are secured and I cant see the cause of the fault.
Anyone in Brisbane who could give me a hand diagnosing the problem?
Thanks!


----------



## micbrew

you could try maltjunkie ... not sure he hangs out here anymore or Lael


----------



## Neolithic

malt junkie said:


> not necessarily, usb could be flakey you'd need to power via the 12v supply to be certain.



Hi finally got both of my units fully wired up for 240v power etc. They both work now but the previous issue one reads about 20C higher temp than the other. Any ideas? Can you recalibrate 0 and 100c in the settings if so I can’t find it. Or do you think I may have an issue with the temp probe wiring or resistor. The sensors are ok as the issue stays with the box when I swap them over.

Appreciate it if anyone had seen this before and can help.

Thanks

Matt


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Anyone have any spare temp probes they want to part with? Chasing a new one and perhaps another as a spare if possible.


----------



## Jase

Hi there,

I have searched the forum but cannot find an answer to my question, so I thought I would post it here!

I have a braudino setup on my 1 vessel system, but have started using my 3 vessel system again for some big brew days. After being spoilt for temperature control on the braudino, I am thinking about a braudino setup on the 3 vessel system.

Has anyone attempted to configure a braudino to a 3 vessel system? I have a gas fired kettle, but am thinking about the possibility of running the HLT and MT off the unit. Does anyone think this is possible, or am I better off buying some PIDS instead?


Cheers,
Jase


----------



## gap

Jase said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I have searched the forum but cannot find an answer to my question, so I thought I would post it here!
> 
> I have a braudino setup on my 1 vessel system, but have started using my 3 vessel system again for some big brew days. After being spoilt for temperature control on the braudino, I am thinking about a braudino setup on the 3 vessel system.
> 
> Has anyone attempted to configure a braudino to a 3 vessel system? I have a gas fired kettle, but am thinking about the possibility of running the HLT and MT off the unit. Does anyone think this is possible, or am I better off buying some PIDS instead?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase


I use mine with a HERMS .
Run in MANUALl mode to pump from HLT to Mash Tun.
Run on AUTO mode for the Mash and then skip the other stages
Run again in MANUAL mode to recirculate when batch sparging.


----------



## Jase

gap said:


> I use mine with a HERMS .
> Run in MANUALl mode to pump from HLT to Mash Tun.
> Run on AUTO mode for the Mash and then skip the other stages
> Run again in MANUAL mode to recirculate when batch sparging.


Thanks gap,

I am trying to come up with a way to monitor both the HLT and mash tun temperatures with the braudino. I'm not sure that it can be done.

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## Brendandrage

Hi all, I’ve done a quick search but couldn’t find any info. I have a controller, it’s been in storage for a while now and doing a trial run yesterday I had problems when using the pump cycle and heat together. After a short period of the pumpmrunning in either manual or automatic the controller screen throws up jargon and both heat and pump shut down. As lon as I don’t use the pump it’s fine. Any ideas?


----------



## lespaul

So ive had my unit tested, and it looks like its the control board thats the issue, all the relays etc still work. How hard would it to be to get a replacement/make a new one?


----------



## lael

Brendandrage said:


> Hi all, I’ve done a quick search but couldn’t find any info. I have a controller, it’s been in storage for a while now and doing a trial run yesterday I had problems when using the pump cycle and heat together. After a short period of the pumpmrunning in either manual or automatic the controller screen throws up jargon and both heat and pump shut down. As lon as I don’t use the pump it’s fine. Any ideas?



This sounds like a EMF problem. Option 1 - run the 12v into the pump relay and then out to an SSR - if you are only using 1 of the SSRs in the controller, this is a good option. Otherwise you will need to find a dual SSR. 
Option 2- and something you should do anyway - check all your wiring to make sure everything is fully secured and that wires are only as long as they need to be.

Which pump are you using?


----------



## lael

lespaul said:


> So ive had my unit tested, and it looks like its the control board thats the issue, all the relays etc still work. How hard would it to be to get a replacement/make a new one?



Hi lespaul, 

I have some spares if you are after another one - PM me. 
When you say you had it tested - what was showing up as the issue?


----------



## lael

Jase said:


> Thanks gap,
> 
> I am trying to come up with a way to monitor both the HLT and mash tun temperatures with the braudino. I'm not sure that it can be done.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jase



Hi Jase, 

The unit wasn't really designed for this, but if you are willing to do some coding and simple hacking, it shouldn't be too hard. I would need to look back over how ds18b20 works, and what is on the board, but you should be able to add another temp probe into the same socket - it might need a resistor across 2 of the wires. Then you would need to reference the address of the temp probes and modify the display to show the second temp. 
Alternately - if you aren't in need of high accuracy temp control in your HLT - then use something like an STC1000, or Inkbird controller. Depends on how you are running your MLT heating, but I know some people are running the Brauduino to control RIMS.


----------



## lael

LiquidCurrency said:


> Anyone have any spare temp probes they want to part with? Chasing a new one and perhaps another as a spare if possible.



I have some spares if people want them - happy to help people out to get them.


----------



## lespaul

Hi lael, the unit was tested by a sparky mate who knows nothing about electronics (best I could do). He said everything tested fine except the control board. So that's all I have to go off. 
Will pm shortly


----------



## checkers

Hey guys... so I just got home to find that my dog has chewed the temp probe in half.. ‍
Anyone know where I can buy another one of these? It’s the one with the 3.5mm headphone cable..

Cheers


----------



## checkers




----------



## zwitter

I would suggest you contact Lael as he has the spares. Alternatively you could buy a plug and solder it on the cable?
Zwitter
James


----------



## zwitter

Hey Brendandrage
The problem you are experiencing is indeed EMF or basically noise caused by the relay switching the current to the pump. When the relay opens and closes it causes a spark and along with that an RF output that then is “ received” by some of the sensitive circuits in the display and it scrambles the display. 

The answer is to separate the 240v wiring from the low voltage wiring. Basically one on one side of the box and the other on opposite side. 

Alternatively I posted a permanent solution where if you use a 240v pump you can remove the relay and replace it with a small SSR. This totally removes the issue. I did this with mine and never had a further issue.

The instructions were posted in the build thread. I can email them to you if you can not find them.

Zwitter
James


----------



## lespaul

I've emailed and messaged lael a few times with no response. Not sure if he's still around the forums??? Lael!! I need a new control board! Helpppp


----------



## real_beer

claypot said:


> Hey MB,
> Cheers mate, nope don't fancy any software mods I have enough drama with English as a first language!
> 
> I had a quick look at ds18b20 probes and doesn't look like they are available at the length I need.
> So will have to come up with another option, most likely another probe into the top of the malt pipe. Then switch over for the boil.
> I should of got the extra probe with the kit...
> Do the pre made sensors with the 3.5mm audio jack all use the same wiring configuration?



You no doubt got yours well and truly sorted long ago, but for other people in the future the controller and pre made sensors that come with the lael's kit are wired with the Center Pin VCC & the Middle is DQ. So GND stays the same and the other two are switched around.


----------



## claypot

real_beer said:


> You no doubt got yours well and truly sorted long ago, but for other people in the future the controller and pre made sensors that come with the lael's kit are wired with the Center Pin VCC & the Middle is DQ. So GND stays the same and the other two are switched around.


Sweet thanks for posting that, I should of followed up for others, I ended up using a multimeter, set for resistance testing and tracked them back to find out. Should of corrected my original post diagram, thanks again.


----------



## zwitter

The ones supplied by Lael in the kit have an extra resistor in the positive. My suggestion. It stopped them from being blown up when plugging in when it was turned on.

Zwitter
James


----------



## bungelbear

Hi all, i am wondering if there is still someone on this thread that can help me with a question i have about my Brauduino.
i am changing my system to a BIAB setup and am doing away with my pump. what i want to do is run my 2 elements off the 2 SSR's and i want to use the existing buttons on the front board. so i wired up the pump button similar to the heat button (positive out of green block to positive on SSR. 3+ and minus out if green block to minus on SSR. 4-)
I also wired an inline fuse into the positive as an added measure to protect the 5A onboard relay. I powered it up and pushed the button. i got the click from the relay but the light did not come on, on the SSR. What is in the circuitry that is stopping a signal being pushed to the 12V side of the relay? Is it completely different to the heat circuit because of the relay and snubber circuit? Can i not use it at all, so therefore install a new switch. Cheers for any help


----------



## LiquidCurrency

Hi All,

Chasing a couple of Lowara pumps. Can get them from a brew shop for $190ea.
Just wondering if anyone knows where I can get two at a better price?


----------



## zwitter

bungelbear said:


> Hi all, i am wondering if there is still someone on this thread that can help me with a question i have about my Brauduino.
> i am changing my system to a BIAB setup and am doing away with my pump. what i want to do is run my 2 elements off the 2 SSR's and i want to use the existing buttons on the front board. so i wired up the pump button similar to the heat button (positive out of green block to positive on SSR. 3+ and minus out if green block to minus on SSR. 4-)
> I also wired an inline fuse into the positive as an added measure to protect the 5A onboard relay. I powered it up and pushed the button. i got the click from the relay but the light did not come on, on the SSR. What is in the circuitry that is stopping a signal being pushed to the 12V side of the relay? Is it completely different to the heat circuit because of the relay and snubber circuit? Can i not use it at all, so therefore install a new switch. Cheers for any help
> View attachment 115415
> View attachment 115416
> View attachment 115417



Hi Bunglebear

Do you want to drive the elements separately?

Are you going to just use manual mode?

You can use the output switch of the pump to drive the SSR. If you do you need to remove the 240v if you had a 240v pump. If you had a 12v pump then you can use the pump output to drive the SSR. You will need to get the polarity correct.

An alternative is to use the transistor that drives the relay to drive the SSR directly but it would require some delicate soldering.

Let me know?
PM me if you like.

James 
Zwitter


----------



## zwitter

Hi Bunglebear

A few thins i will point out.
The fuse is not 240 safe.
Having the SSRs with output so close to input is a poor way to locate them. I would suggest having both inputs in the middle and the outputs at either end.

The brown wire colour should be reserved for Active 240
The blue colour wire should be reserved for Neutral 240

The wire on the input side of the SSR can be quite small and is signal only very little current. 

I like the earthing of the SSR frame.

James 
Zwitter


----------



## buckerooni

has anyone got some of the power sockets I can buy? I'd take 1 but would have 2 if you've got them. 
I can find them on ebay ( https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CNLINKO...of-IP67-Compatible-w-Neutrik-M24/122544821030 ) , but to get one posted quickly it's gonna cost me $20 extra  $40 for one plug would be something I'd like to avoid! thanks!


----------



## Meddo

Does anyone have a spare shield from Lael's kit that they would be happy to sell on?


----------



## ken_gilchrist

Good evening everyone, it's been a long time between posts for me. Is everyone still using their Matho controller?


----------



## marc280

Yep, I'm still happily using mine. Have quite a few brews on it now. While things like auot recipe upload on the Grain father would be nice, the controller from Lael's kit does everything I need.


----------



## Meddo

Meddo said:


> Does anyone have a spare shield from Lael's kit that they would be happy to sell on?


Bump, still looking for a shield from @lael's/@zwitter's kit.


----------



## northernbrewer

Hey Meddo,

I still have an unbuilt one that I never needed. I built an original but bought the upgraded one with the intention of upgrading and never did. Are you just after the shield or the full kit. Flick me a message and we can arrange something

Cheers


----------



## Meddo

northernbrewer said:


> Hey Meddo,
> 
> I still have an unbuilt one that I never needed. I built an original but bought the upgraded one with the intention of upgrading and never did. Are you just after the shield or the full kit. Flick me a message and we can arrange something
> 
> Cheers


Thanks mate, will PM in the morning


----------



## marksy

Meddo said:


> Bump, still looking for a shield from @lael's/@zwitter's kit.



I got two kits, but haven't used either of them. ( Lost interest in brewing for awhile). But happy to move the second one?


----------



## ken_gilchrist

G'day everyone,
I'm looking for some tech advice on my Matho's controller. When I'm preparing for a brew I set my parameters and automation steps, fill my strike water and begin the process. For some reason the controller thinks that the water is already at temp (say 63 deg for example) and begins beeping, even when the display shows 20 deg. It doest affect any part of the process other than the annoying beeping for 30 mins or so.

What could be the cause of this?


----------



## bigmacthepunker

ken_gilchrist said:


> Good evening everyone, it's been a long time between posts for me. Is everyone still using their Matho controller?


Hasn't missed a beat in 5 years and 47 brews.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Does anyone use theirs on a 3V? I have recently set one up that I bought second hand a year or so ago and currently just using it to heat water in the HLT, but I guess the ultimate aim would be to use it on the whole system.

Would just be a matter of moving the temp probe and element plugs?


----------



## Kingy

Nullnvoid said:


> Does anyone use theirs on a 3V? I have recently set one up that I bought second hand a year or so ago and currently just using it to heat water in the HLT, but I guess the ultimate aim would be to use it on the whole system.
> 
> Would just be a matter of moving the temp probe and element plugs?


I use mine with my herms setup. Good for step mashing and/or ramping. And pump control while sparging etc.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Awesome, and it works ok with the Herms? That's what I will be using it for. 

And how do you go with the different vessels. Just plug into each vessel as needed?


----------



## Kingy

I use a seperate controller (stc1000)for my hlt and the braudino is used to control the hex.
I like to set the timer on the controller to heat the mash water up ready for when I wake up. 
Add the grain then the controller goes through the automatic process. 
Step mash and or ramp to mash out and hold it there until I'm ready to sparge.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Kingy said:


> I use a seperate controller (stc1000)for my hlt and the braudino is used to control the hex.
> I like to set the timer on the controller to heat the mash water up ready for when I wake up.
> Add the grain then the controller goes through the automatic process.
> Step mash and or ramp to mash out and hold it there until I'm ready to sparge.


Duh! I'm doing it the wrong way around! I've been using the mathos for my HLT and an inkbird (So essentially an STC on the herms/mash. I should try it the other way around.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

bigmacthepunker said:


> Hasn't missed a beat in 5 years and 47 brews.


Yeah mine was great up until today when the temp probe wire broke off.... Trying to figure out a way forward, I was planning on brewing this weekend.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

marksy said:


> I got two kits, but haven't used either of them. ( Lost interest in brewing for awhile). But happy to move the second one?


What would you be after for it?


----------



## bigmacthepunker

ken_gilchrist said:


> Yeah mine was great up until toda/y when the temp probe wire broke off.... Trying to figure out a way forward, I was planning on brewing this weekend.


Picture, cant you just solder it back on?


----------



## ken_gilchrist

bigmacthepunker said:


> Picture, cant you just solder it back on?



No it broke off right at the end of the wire near the probe.


----------



## djar007

I am just retiring my setup after a few years of brewing on it. It is still working and has never let me down. I have upgraded to the new smartpid m5 pro. Bit pricey but we'll worth it for the added features.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

djar007 said:


> I am just retiring my setup after a few years of brewing on it. It is still working and has never let me down. I have upgraded to the new smartpid m5 pro. Bit pricey but we'll worth it for the added features.


would you be interested in parting with the old Matho's?


----------



## djar007

ken_gilchrist said:


> would you be interested in parting with the old Matho's?


I will pull it out and let you know if it's ok to use. I think I have spare one floating around. The board that is. Not a kit.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

djar007 said:


> I will pull it out and let you know if it's ok to use. I think I have spare one floating around. The board that is. Not a kit.



I would be more interested in the Temp probe if you have a spare


----------



## parktho

Hi all,

I've got one of these Mathos controller gathering dust up for grabs. It's got a couple of connections required to finish it off, but as I have to get my head back around it, I haven't bothered. 

Based in Tweed Heads.

If someone wants to pay $30 to ensure postage is covered, I'll mail it to you.

Thomas.


----------



## djar007

parktho said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've got one of these Mathos controller gathering dust up for grabs. It's got a couple of connections required to finish it off, but as I have to get my head back around it, I haven't bothered.
> 
> Based in Tweed Heads.
> 
> If someone wants to pay $30 to ensure postage is covered, I'll mail it to you.
> 
> Thomas.


----------



## djar007

I will take it if no one else wants it more than me. Thanks mate.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

parktho said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've got one of these Mathos controller gathering dust up for grabs. It's got a couple of connections required to finish it off, but as I have to get my head back around it, I haven't bothered.
> 
> Based in Tweed Heads.
> 
> If someone wants to pay $30 to ensure postage is covered, I'll mail it to you.
> 
> Thomas.


Is this still available?


----------



## djar007

I messaged Parktho but have not heard back, I dont mind if you want to take it Ken. I can do without it.


----------



## djar007

Hey Ken, this is the temp probe you will need. Temperature Sensor - Waterproof (DS18B20)


----------



## breadenhound

Hi All, I have purchased a Brauduino on FB Marketplace and am having a few issues:

- The temp shows 0.00 degrees despite using several probes that came with the unit
- I am not sure what PCB Type I have when setting the PCB during firmware upload

The controller appears to have been wired professionally and is super tidy. I have opened it up to check/ reseat connections for the probe and compared it to as much documentation and YouTube as I can find.

Is anyone able to point me to an 'easy' or 'dumb' solution as to why I am not getting a temp reading? I am hoping I am just missing something...

Is anyone able to ID my PCB?:

- Using an Arduino Mega 2560 R3
- Using a Brauduino Sparky Shield v. 1.0

My options are:

// 1 Brauduino Original (Matho's PCB)
// 2 Brauduino by DanielXan
// 3 ArdBir by DanielXan
// 4 ArdBir All-in-One

Thanks in Advance 

UPDATE: I bought and learned how to use a multimeter. There was a break somewhere in the positive wire between the probe inlet and the board, that was only apparent if you wiggled it about enough.


----------

