# Can I Use Little Creatures Yeast?



## rday (16/12/09)

I'm interested in reusing the yeast from a bottle or two of Little Creatures, and I have searched around the forum and on Google, but I can't seem to find if this is doable or not. Has anyone done this with any success?


----------



## big78sam (16/12/09)

rday said:


> I'm interested in reusing the yeast from a bottle or two of Little Creatures, and I have searched around the forum and on Google, but I can't seem to find if this is doable or not. Has anyone done this with any success?




I asked this question at the brewery when I was last there and it is a completely different strain in the bottle. They use a lager yeast in LCPA bottles. The reason was something about the way this affected carbonation, IIRC finer bubbles. So unless you want to brew a lager, it appears not.


----------



## chappo1970 (16/12/09)

I think you will find LC beers are not bottle conditioned this is compounded as I understand that they heavily filter their beers therefore there is very, very little viable yeast, if any, to culture up a starter from. Not saying it's impossible but I would think it near impossible. I use S05 in Tony's LCBA clone and it's near a dead ringer. Also Clean Brewer uses S05 in his Scraps IPA which is a deadset Stimulius IPA clone. So maybe start there? The recipes are in the database. 

Chap Chap


----------



## rday (16/12/09)

Thanks, guys. I'm glad I asked before trying.


----------



## big78sam (16/12/09)

Chappo said:


> I think you will find LC beers are not bottle conditioned this is compounded as I understand that they heavily filter their beers therefore there is very, very little viable yeast, if any, to culture up a starter from.




I think the pale ale is bottle conditioned, as I mentioned above with a different strain (there's much less sediment in LCPA than in a coopers though). I didn't think the others were as the guy at the brewery specifically pointed the pale ale only out to me as having yeast sediment in the bottle. However, I'm happy to be corrected.


----------



## rday (16/12/09)

The Pale is definitely bottle conditioned. Knowing that you can recover the yeast from Coopers is what made me interested in trying it with Little Creatures when I noticed that there's yeast in there.


----------



## geoffi (16/12/09)

I don't think I'd bother when 'APA' yeast is so readily available.

Coopers yeast is a different matter.


----------



## chappo1970 (16/12/09)

big78sam said:


> I think the pale ale is bottle conditioned, as I mentioned above with a different strain (there's much less sediment in LCPA than in a coopers though). I didn't think the others were as the guy at the brewery specifically pointed the pale ale only out to me as having yeast sediment in the bottle. However, I'm happy to be corrected.



Nope I would think you are correct there Big. I must admit I was thinking long the Bright Ale and Pils lines and totally disregarded the pale ale as I'm not a big fan of it (Chappo runs for the flame suit). However IIRC you dead right about the lager yeast being used to bottle condition the Pale Ale. However I am 99.9% sure what I originally said stands for the above mentioned.

Chap Chap


----------



## Dazza_devil (16/12/09)

US05 has given me good results in the past with a Coopers Pale Ale kit and Cascade hops for something close to LCPA.
I believe the OP was asking is it possible to culture the yeast and it appears that it would be possible to culture the Lager yeast they use for bottle conditioning. Especially if you was to use the yeast from the whole carton (I just finished my carton  ). I cultured the yeast from a whole carton of Coopers Pale Ale stubbies and got good results in a Pale Ale. 
The OP didn't say what he intended to brew with the yeast but it would be logical to assume he wanted to clone the brew.
If you want to brew a good pale ale I would recommend culturing the Coopers yeast and brewing my OZ Galaxy Pale Ale that's in the recipe database. Personally I think it's nicer than LCPA.


----------



## clean brewer (16/12/09)

> Also Clean Brewer uses S05 in his Scraps IPA which is a deadset Stimulius IPA clone



"Leftovers A.I.P.A" not scraps... :angry:  :lol:  

Thanks for the recommendation anyhow Chap Chap..

CB


----------



## MHB (16/12/09)

I think the bottling yeast in LCPA is 514, not something you would bother culturing.
MHB


----------



## daryl5412 (16/12/09)

I wouldnt assume that coopers yeast found in the bottle is the same as the primary fermentation yeast strain.

After talking to an ex head brewer, he would not answer a question that i asked about this.

By not answering this I assume it is different, as the beer is spun in a centrifuge to remove yeast prior to bottling.

My question to him was "are the bottles re-seeded with the same yeast strain before capping?"

He did not want to answer this........... you make your own decision.

(funny how the same amount of yeast is in every bottle..... hmmmm)


----------



## np1962 (16/12/09)

daryl5412 said:


> I wouldnt assume that coopers yeast found in the bottle is the same as the primary fermentation yeast strain.
> 
> After talking to an ex head brewer, he would not answer a question that i asked about this.
> 
> ...


Sorry daryl but what a load of bollocks!
Either that or Coopers tell tall tales on their own website and in emails received from their customer relations department.
Take the Virtual tour of the brewery HERE and take note of what is said at step 11 on the tour.

And the Email to Braufrau
Posted by: braufrau - Apr 22 2008, 06:47 PM 
OK ... from the horses mouth (aka Frank at Coopers). Not sure why he's calling me Megan ... oh well! 


G'day Megan, yes we are aware of this practice - in fact we encourage it
by providing a procedure for those wanting to culture our yeast from the
bottle. The same strain of yeast is used for seeding the bottles as for
primary fermentation. For a more detailed description of our procedures
do the virtual tour:
http://www.coopers.com.au/virtualBrewTour/default.php

Cheers,

Frank Akers
Customer Service
Coopers Brewery
461 South Road
Regency Park
SA 5010

Ph: 08 8440 1800

If you like the beer, you'll love the Club!

http://www.coopers.com.au 





-----Original Message-----
From: Samantha Lane [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 8:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: CSA yeast


Hi,

I'm sure you know that many homebrewers culture your yeast from CSA 
and CPA bottles.
There is some debate whether the yeast in the bottles is the same as 
that used for primary fermentation.
Can you tell us the truth please?

regards
Samantha

Cheers
Nige


----------



## arogers (16/12/09)

I was under the impression LCPA used WLP001 for primary. Why deal with a dodgy culture when you can buy a vial of the stuff?


----------



## Jimmeh (16/12/09)

They use a proprietary fermentation strain and lager yeast for bottling. That info is straight from the brewers mouth.

US-05/WY1056/WLP001 is pretty similar to the main fermentation strain.

Cheers, Jim


----------



## A3k (16/12/09)

Hi Rday,

I wouldn't worry about culturing a yeast for a beer like LCPA (even if the bottle strain was the same). Yeast character is pretty clean, US05 will give you the characteristics that you're after. Any differences (if any) are likely to be subtle and in my oppinion not worth the trouble of culturing up from the bottle.

A coopers pale ale is a different kettle of fish. It's very dependent on yeast as that's where it gets most of it's flavour.

Probably not the right thread to bring up the coopers bottling strain argument again as it's been discussed many times on other threads.

Cheers,
Al


----------



## mckenry (16/12/09)

NigeP62 said:


> Sorry daryl but what a load of bollocks!
> 
> Cheers
> Nige



chk chk boom!


----------



## chappo1970 (16/12/09)

Would appear the concensus is towards S05?




clean brewer said:


> "Leftovers A.I.P.A" not scraps...



Whoopsie! Man, I nearly got it right?  Pfffft!!! Leftovers? Scraps? Same same? No?

Great beer BTW wish I had some on tap now! :icon_drool2:


----------



## clean brewer (16/12/09)

Chappo said:


> Would appear the concensus is towards S05?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeh, same, same mate.... Bloody good anyhow for some scraps/leftovers thrown together...  

Fruit Salad, Yummy Yummy...  

Ive got some on Tap... HMMMMMM.. :lol: Not much though!!!!!


----------



## mika (16/12/09)

A while back there was a conversation had with one of the White Brothers who at the time hinted that an awful lot of WLP001 got shipped into Fremantle and didn't make it any further.
On a recent brewery tour though, the LC head brewer was fairly open, but said that the yeast was their own strain, kept in a yeast bank and they built it up on site to pitching size. Their final yeast propogator is the size of some Micro breweries kettle's.


----------



## Dazza_devil (16/12/09)

I wonder if any of the primary yeast makes it into the bottle, perhaps it's a blend. I'm guessing that removing the primary yeast is going to affect the end result as far as flavour is concerned.


----------



## Kai (16/12/09)

Yes the yeast props hold at least a thousand litres each.

And there's no primary strain yeast in the bottle at all. With regards to flavour impact, I think we're all all aware that the type of yeast used in LCPA is a yeast that adds pretty much nothing to the character of the beer. I believe the polite way of putting it is that it lets the hops shine through....


----------



## Dazza_devil (16/12/09)

Exactly what yeast is used in the primary? I think we are all aware that we are never gonna know.
And with that in mind how are we ever gonna know that it imparts nothing to the brew. Sure the hops are in the foreground but that could mask a very subtle yeast influence. I think we are all never gonna know.


----------



## Jimmeh (17/12/09)

Boagsy, did you read any of the previous posts at all? They use a proprietary strain i.e. we cannot get a hold of it
Closest matches are US-05, WY1056 or WL001


----------



## mika (17/12/09)

You can take what Kai says as being pretty spot on to. Being that he's an ex Little creatures brewer and a current Little World beverages employee


----------



## King Brown (18/12/09)

daryl5412 said:


> I wouldnt assume that coopers yeast found in the bottle is the same as the primary fermentation yeast strain.
> 
> After talking to an ex head brewer, he would not answer a question that i asked about this.
> 
> ...



Possibly as an Ex-head brewer he would have signed a confidentiality agreement preventing him from divulging information about any of Coopers brewing practices (without the consent of the company)

I had to sign one for a warehouse/manufacturing joint I used to work at that pretty much went along those lines...


----------



## Alex T (19/12/09)

Hey Guys,

Was just reading this one and I can probably clarify our process.

We do ferment with an ale yeast and then filter bright and re-innoculate with a pilsner yeast (the same strain that we use in our Pilsner in fact).

There are a number of microbiological reasons for doing so - lager yeast is slightly more vigourous, will ferment a bit dryer, etc. We do only add JUST enough to do the job and post bottle conditioning we actually chill every batch to ensure tight compaction of the yeast. This is just our philosophy and ther are plenty of other ways to do it.

And yes, our yeast is stored in Copenhagen and we propagate fresh conditioning yeast every week. (ale yeast about once every 4 weeks).

Anyway, there you go.... (and yes, I guess you could culture up the pils yeast from the bottle, but as someone said here, probably purchase some and you are guaranteed that the yeast is healthy).

Cheers,

Alex (aka LC Chief Brewer)


----------



## Dazza_devil (19/12/09)

Jimmeh said:


> Boagsy, did you read any of the previous posts at all? They use a proprietary strain i.e. we cannot get a hold of it
> Closest matches are US-05, WY1056 or WL001




That's right mate we don't know what it is exactly and we are never gonna know. All we can do is to use a substitute that may give similar results.
Did you read some of my post or all of it?
Unless it comes from the brewers mouth I wont be taking it as gospel and the chances of him divulging the whole process used in brewing LCPA to me would be sweet F.A.


----------



## mika (19/12/09)

Heard of reading between the lines ?


----------



## benny7 (1/1/10)

rday said:


> I'm interested in reusing the yeast from a bottle or two of Little Creatures, and I have searched around the forum and on Google, but I can't seem to find if this is doable or not. Has anyone done this with any success?



I have just tried using the yeast from 3 bottles of Litle creatures. I should have read this forum first. There is a slight sulphur smell so i'm guessing that it is too hot for this type of yeast. I will let you know how it turns out


----------



## manticle (1/1/10)

Alex T said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Was just reading this one and I can probably clarify our process.
> 
> ...



Always helpful when commercial breweries are informative and helpful enough to contribute to threads like these.

Cheers (also to kai who is forthcoming about a lot of similar type of information).


----------



## Duff (1/1/10)

manticle said:


> Always helpful when commercial breweries are informative and helpful enough to contribute to threads like these.
> 
> Cheers (also to kai who is forthcoming about a lot of similar type of information).



Ditto.


----------



## Darren (1/1/10)

Chappo said:


> Would appear the concensus is towards S05?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




S05 is a dirty strain when compared to Wyeast 1056 (or whitelabs 001)

S05 is for lazy sods with little or no taste perception.

cheers

Darren


----------



## Bribie G (1/1/10)

MHB said:


> I think the bottling yeast in LCPA is 514, not something you would bother culturing.
> MHB






Alex T said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Was just reading this one and I can probably clarify our process.
> 
> ...



Seems to tie in with the fact that Fosters yeasts are apparently Carlsberg based as well. Have no interest in brewing the LCPA but the pilsener yeast............ this might tie in with my Bulimba Gold Top / draught experiments if I can get hold of a commercial pilsener type yeast related to Fosters strains as well. B) Very Interesting thread.


----------



## manticle (1/1/10)

Darren said:


> S05 is a dirty strain when compared to Wyeast 1056 (or whitelabs 001)
> 
> S05 is for lazy sods with little or no taste perception.
> 
> ...




Can you explain a bit further?

I have used both when I want a neutral yeast character. I have a brew I put down two days ago that used 05 because I didn't trust my 1056 starter when I looked at it. I had thought they were a similar strain although my preference is for liquids with dried as back ups.

What differences can I expect?


----------



## Nick JD (1/1/10)

Darren said:


> S05 is for lazy sods with little or no taste perception.



Where's my can...







There it is!


----------



## Duff (1/1/10)

Not really....NickJD

Dry US05 can (IMO) taste a little 'dusty' at times. In a high hopped APA it can be masked, however I'd be interested to see comparison results between APA's in comps using US05 and 1056/001 at similar IBU's.


----------



## dpadden (1/1/10)

Duff said:


> Not really....NickJD
> 
> Dry US05 can (IMO) taste a little 'dusty' at times. In a high hopped APA it can be masked, however I'd be interested to see comparison results between APA's in comps using US05 and 1056/001.



I agree with Darren and Duff, I 'assumed' for ages that they were exactly the same. However after switching to 1056 and the ProCulture strain, my moderately hopped US style beers have improved remarkably.


----------



## glaab (1/1/10)

so, ... to recapitulate,

Q] can I reculture little critters blah blah blah etc etc etc.
A] US05 is crap used by dickheads only

I luv US05 :wub: , must be a lazy prick with no taste.
Well, I am lazy but no too lazy to smack a pack and tip it into the fermenter,
that's easier than rehydrating the 05.


----------



## rday (2/1/10)

BribieG said:


> B ) Very Interesting thread.



I'm glad my ignorance has contributed something good to AHB!

And a big thanks to Alex for the helpful info. It seems pretty rare today to get input from the commercial guys, so it is much appreciated.

Edit: Stupid unintended emoticons


----------



## manticle (2/1/10)

rday said:


> It seems pretty rare today to get input from the commercial guys, so it is much appreciated.



Kai and thirsty boy post regularly enough. There are also a couple of forum members from Kooinda who post here - not amazingly regularly but certainly helpful if asked questions about their product.


----------

