# Using Commercial Beer Bottles



## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Hi Everyone,

This here is my first post so a big HELLO to everyone. 

I have searched these forums for 'bottles' in an attempt to understand the (re)use of commercial beer bottles for home brew. But I found nothing answering my question. So onto my post.

Is it okay to re-use commercial beer bottles (specifically Beck's bottles)? I ask for a couple of reasons:
1) I read somewhere that you should not reuse such bottles as they're not designed for that.
2) However I've seen and heard of others using such bottles (not sure from which beer though).
3) On the base of my Beck's bottles I notice the embossed words, "NO REFILL".

So what is the verdict? Can you use commercial beer bottles? Can I use my Becks bottles? If not, what characteristics do I need to check for in a bottle for it to be usable (other than crown caps?)?

Look forward to reading your responses. 

(Disclaimer: Yes I'm new to this. Brought my first home brew kit on the week-end, and have the brew on now. The kit came with plastic bottles, so it's not for this brew, but for in the future.)


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/11/05)

Short answer...yes  

You can even use threaded top crown seal bottles if you have a good bench capper, so if it came with beer in it you can use it :beer: 

PZ.


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## bottlerocket (28/11/05)

phoenix
i reuse crown seal bottles like becks with no probs
i even use longnecks with twist tops ok
glass is thinner but i havnt had a bomb yet
those pet bottles are pretty good for beer that you will drink fairly quick,just not for long storage


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Cheers guys.

So I guess the reason for not using them is the one you mentioned bottlerocket. That being they're fairly thin and thereby they might EXPLODE! hmmm... But hopefully as long as I check the SG I should be safe from that - well, assuming I know which SG means it's all done (but anyway).


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## Uncle Fester (28/11/05)

Pheonix,

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the obsession. Good to see another representative from the ACT.

The only bottles that I have heard of that were a little on the shaky side for homebrewing, were one style of Carlton Crown bottles, that had writing embossed on the neck. For some reason it appeared to weaken the neck, and they were prone to breaking.

I hope you realise what you are getting into!

M


[edit - sp]


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

hmmm... just thought of something though. The Beck's bottles are only 330ml, and my kit came with carbonation drops, and they seemed like a good idea. HOWEVER, they say one 'drop' for 375ml bottles, so potentially one drop would be too much for the 330ml bottles...hmmm... maybe I need to go and look for some 375ml bottles.

As for knowing what I'm getting myself into. Not really sure yet, but so far it's all fun and interesting. Guess I wont really know until I get to taste my first beer - just in time for Chrissy.


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/11/05)

Bulk priming will get you around the bottle volume issue (a search will yield instant results). 

However...for somebody that hasn't even tasted his first brew yet it may seem a bit too much trouble...I know I never bothered :lol: 

Maybe for now just collect leftover bottles from pissups and parties :beerbang: 

PZ.


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## sluggerdog (28/11/05)

Pheonix - Welcome!~

I use becks and corona bottles when I have take-aways, no drama's what-so-ever.

Even when I come home with take-a-ways I have found them at the bottom of the fridge 4 months later, still great.

Aslong as they are pop tops and not twisties then there's no dramas.


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## Jazman (28/11/05)

phoenix time to learn to bilk prime as it wont matter what size bottles u use then


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/11/05)

Is there an echo in here? :lol:


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## Uncle Fester (28/11/05)

Phoenix said:


> hmmm... just thought of something though. The Beck's bottles are only 330ml, and my kit came with carbonation drops, and they seemed like a good idea. HOWEVER, they say one 'drop' for 375ml bottles, so potentially one drop would be too much for the 330ml bottles...hmmm... maybe I need to go and look for some 375ml bottles.
> 
> As for knowing what I'm getting myself into. Not really sure yet, but so far it's all fun and interesting. Guess I wont really know until I get to taste my first beer - just in time for Chrissy.
> [post="93959"][/post]​




I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it..... Only 10% difference..... I would be more concerned about ensuring that the fermentation had completed prior to bottling. 

2 SG readings the same over 2 days, at or about 1010 (differs with the kind of beer you are making). My guess is that it is the pack that came with your kit... Cooper Lager???

M


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Bulk priming... hmmm.. I've read a little on that, but I will search these here forums and read some more on it. Seemed a bit of effort at last read, but I'll read again. 



mandrakar said:


> 2 SG readings the same over 2 days, at or about 1010 (differs with the kind of beer you are making). My guess is that it is the pack that came with your kit... Cooper Lager???
> [post="93994"][/post]​



The kit was a Morgans kit and as such came with 'Morgans Australian Lager'. The kit also included what I found to be some good instructions. In these instructions (like in other threads on this forum) they advised against taking multiple samples - because of potential infection. They instructed to take only one sample just before bottling to ensure that the SG is at 1004, and only then to bottle.

Now that has obviously two problems:
1. It is specific (as you touched on) to that beer mix; and
2. What if it's not that SG, I'll obviously have to wait and take another the next day.

Anyway, I guess discussing SG measurements is taking this off topic, and from what I've seen of those other threads (on taking measurements) the opinions are wide and varied, so I'll leave that there and go and read over the other threads/debates again. 

As for the thread, I guess I could summarise it such:
- It's fine to use commercial beer bottles for home brew pretty much regardless of type (but the more solid the better). If using odd sized bottles then priming can be simplified through the use of bulk priming.

Cheers guys, it's been great reading the replies.


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/11/05)

Bulk priming made easy: 
http://www.grumpys.com.au/m1.php3?manualid=13

PZ.


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## sluggerdog (28/11/05)

Phoenix, I wouldn't be waiting for the gravity to get to 1004, this is pretty rare, my first brew I got to 1005 and this was mainly to do with a kit + dextrose and high fermenting temps.

I'd Just take 2 samples, one when you think it's done and one the next day to make sure it's stopped/finished.


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## Boozy the clown (28/11/05)

I use one carb drop in my 330ml bottles and havent had a prob to date (touch wood) I use two drops in my 440ml grolsch bottles but make a point of drinking them first and use them as a guide for carbonation (which actually doesnt make much sense as they are over primed!)

So far champagne bottles have worked a treat for me. They can stand huge pressures and the only prob i have had is when i have used (or over used) honey in a brew. The hone seems to ferment out over a much slower period of time, thus causing futher gassing up.

No bottles popping to date (touch wood again) but two or three have forced a leak. No worries for that, dont tell the missus there is sticky beer on the carpet, chill it and drink it pronto. (but when they gas up like that beware of the monster head and let let bugger calm down before you drink it, that or compare it to an Eno!)
h34r: :beerbang:


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Bulk priming made easy:
> http://www.grumpys.com.au/m1.php3?manualid=13
> 
> PZ.
> [post="94018"][/post]​



Looks like you have to also do racking first:
http://www.grumpys.com.au/m1.php3?manualid=14

An extra 3-5 days. :unsure:



sluggerdog said:


> Phoenix, I wouldn't be waiting for the gravity to get to 1004, this is pretty rare, my first brew I got to 1005 and this was mainly to do with a kit + dextrose and high fermenting temps.
> 
> I'd Just take 2 samples, one when you think it's done and one the next day to make sure it's stopped/finished.
> [post="94021"][/post]​




Oops. Just checked the instructions again, and they say 1005 (apparently started around 1040). Don't know where I got the 1004 from. :blink:


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Boozy the clown said:


> I use one carb drop in my 330ml bottles and havent had a prob to date (touch wood)
> [post="94022"][/post]​



Thanks for the info mate, that sounds tempting now. If some 'clown' has done it, then how bad can it be. 

Do they ever seem over carbonated? As in do they ever seem like they're about to blow? :blink:


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## Boozy the clown (28/11/05)

Its not a 'must do' to rack or bulk prime. Racking cuts down on the amount of sediment in your beer, i didnt do it for my first few brews and well, i was just excited to be drinking niceish HB at the time and didnt care.

I Havent bulk primed yet, i'm not as cluey as these others brewers and at this stage i still buy the overpriced coopers carb drops, so far they have been ok for me, just costly in the sceme of things.

I suggest you get yourself champers bottles, other would say get into kegging, but for a begginner champers bottles may be forgiving


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Champers bottles sound interesting (other than I don't drink the stuff), but what do you cap them with? Or have I got it all wrong, are you corking them? :blink:


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## Boozy the clown (28/11/05)

My 330 bottles have never seemed over gassed, but these do tend to be the ones i drink first of a batch and i keep the champers bottles to shelve.

You cap champers bottles, need bigger 'tirage' caps and matching bell end for the bench capper. Champagne is two stage fermented, first with the caps, then they release, take out sediment, then they cork. 

Good for us, we, (well me) just cap the once. Nice looking bottles, strong as all buggery. Champagne is stored under higher pressures than beer. Those bottles take some punishment.


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## tangent (28/11/05)

you buy bigger caps and a bigger capper head, ask your local HBS dude
bulk priming and racking really couldn't be easier, do some reading here and use the SEARCH feature


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## Phoenix (28/11/05)

Boozy the clown said:


> My 330 bottles have never seemed over gassed, but these do tend to be the ones i drink first of a batch and i keep the champers bottles to shelve.
> 
> You cap champers bottles, need bigger 'tirage' caps and matching bell end for the bench capper. Champagne is two stage fermented, first with the caps, then they release, take out sediment, then they cork.
> 
> ...



Cheers, thanks for all that. Numerous things there I didn't know.


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## peas_and_corn (29/11/05)

My two cents on reusing bottles is that some breweries use crappier glass than others- I have been warned by other brewers that west end uses cheaper glass and that their bottles are prone to breaking. I have only had one bottle bomb and it was a west end bottle (not mine; friend left it at my place. I don't buy west end). I like the standard crownie bottles, becks ones are quite good, the best idea is to not use them too many times, as each time they get weaker.

I'll also vouch for bulk priming, it's a great idea. I had several beer cordials in one batch (it was my now ex's fault, she forgot to add the priming sugar), and it isn't a good feeling pouring a flat beer (like VB ). Also, it makes it easier to avoid explosions due to over carbonating.

Boozy- what size bubbles do you get from the drops? I found they gave more soft drink size bubbles than beer size bubbles... but probably due to the fact the batch I used them in was crap. I quite liked eating them, though. mmm... sweet.


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## Boozy the clown (29/11/05)

P&K, the drops sem to nearly always give me decent size bubbles. One of my brews that i used honey in had big soda water sized bubbles in it, not so good.

Back to thin glass in bottles, mate of mine used to work for ACI in brisbane, had said that they made the glass as thin as possible, so much so that the brewery was comlaining about bottles acutally breaking as they were on the production line.


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## Steve (29/11/05)

Pheonix - I use longnecks, stubbies, brown ones, green ones, crown seals, twist tops, grolsch swing tops and never had one break. Regarding priming grab yourself a double ended sugar scoop (one end for longnecks, the other for stubbies) and use that with sugar instead of carb drops. Get a few brews under your belt before buying another fermenter....once you have another fermenter you'll be racking to secondary and bulk priming in no-time (all helps for a better beer) :beer: 
Cheers
Steve

P.S. Start buying and drinking some longnecks to get your stocks of bottles up. Also Col in Kambah sells them pretty cheap.


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## DrewCarey82 (29/11/05)

Phoenix said:


> So what is the verdict? Can you use commercial beer bottles? Can I use my Becks bottles? If not, what characteristics do I need to check for in a bottle for it to be usable (other than crown caps?)?
> 
> [post="93942"][/post]​



Welcome, Twist tops are fine as long as you have a decent bench top capper, trust me fork out $45 @ big w for a brigalow one does the job great on any bottle seal.

I've used for months and have a fantastic seal on every beer.


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## nonicman (29/11/05)

Some bottles don't appear to have the right sized top for standard crown seals. I think it was Hollandia (cheapish Dutch import). Saved the bottles from a case last year. First attempt at capping used a fair bit of force on the bench top capper and broke the bottle, tried again but with no success. I could be mistaken and just stuffed up the capping (as I don't have any of these bottles around to double check), but I'm fairly sure that tops of these bottles are not designed for use with the standard crown seal. Be good if someone can yay or nay this observation.


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## Trough Lolly (29/11/05)

Another vote here for bulk priming and getting a decent bench capper - the bulk priming ensures that any vessel that holds a seal will do since you don't have to stuff around with adding priming sugar to each bottle - eg, Grolsch swingtops, Darwin Stubbies, etc and buying a good quality bench capper will see you right....er, until you start kegging!!

Cheers,
TL


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## Phoenix (29/11/05)

DrewCarey82 said:


> Welcome, Twist tops are fine as long as you have a decent bench top capper, trust me fork out $45 @ big w for a brigalow one does the job great on any bottle seal.
> 
> I've used for months and have a fantastic seal on every beer.
> [post="94167"][/post]​



WOW! I didn't realise you can purchase a capper at Big W. I might have to have a look on the week-end, as that seems to be about half the price of the ones at my local HBS.



Trough Lolly said:


> ....er, until you start kegging!!
> [post="94175"][/post]​



Yeah I was reading about that, it sounds cool. But guess stick to basics for now. 

Cheers guys.


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## wee stu (29/11/05)

I obtained a new Coopers Pale Ale long neck today, and they appear to have gone back to the good old days of crown tops. Not as sturdy and robust as the old pick axe bottles but more elegant and capper proof than the twist top versions. Worth looking out for in your bottle sourceing travails. 

Boozy, I agree with you, champagne bottles are excellent as home brew bottles. Bulk priming is the way to go though, consistent and accurate priming of every bottle in a batch, no matter what the size of the vessell.

awrabest, stu


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## Steve (29/11/05)

Phoenix - its worth spending the extra $20 or so to get the ventomatic capper from Cols. He will even scribble the date of purchase on the bottom in case something happens to it in the next 2 years - you get a replacement no questions asked. Never used a Brigalow capper so cant comment on them.
Cheers
Steve


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## warrenlw63 (29/11/05)

Sparkling wine bottles kill several birds with the one stone.  

It allows you to go to the good bottlos and aquire yourself some much-needed and earned imported beers or whatever takes your fancy and justify the expense by buying your SWMBO a nice bottle of sparkling whatever she likes. Everybody is a winner.  You also can tell her, don't worry hon! I'll get rid of the bottles for you. :lol: You'll earn brownie points by not shirking your domestic responsibilities and most probably ehancing your conjugal ones all on the same bill. :wub: 

Warren -


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## Phoenix (29/11/05)

Steve said:


> Phoenix - its worth spending the extra $20 or so to get the ventomatic capper from Cols. He will even scribble the date of purchase on the bottom in case something happens to it in the next 2 years - you get a replacement no questions asked. Never used a Brigalow capper so cant comment on them.
> Cheers
> Steve
> [post="94191"][/post]​




hmmmmm... that sounds pretty good.


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## OCC (29/11/05)

brewing is all about looking after yourself while keeping her happy,
if she's not happy you'll be looking after yourself in more ways than one.
:beerbang:


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## Phoenix (29/11/05)

Update

So I just went down to my local bottle shop, and picked myself up a case of long necks (Carlton Draught). At the shop I noticed that many of the other long necks (other than Coopers and Tooheys New) were using what appeared to be the same bottles. I thought that must be a good sign.

Anyway, once I got home I had a closer look at the bottles to see if they had the same NO REFILL printing on them. Lo an' behold, they did. Further, I then noticed three letters that I remembered from this thread, ACI. I had a quick look at my becks bottles, and they are also from ACI.

Then, I noticed that they're actually screw tops, not crowns. I assumed (incorrectly, and not drinking long necks normally) that all long necks where crowns.

So in summary, now I have 12 bottles with the following concerns:
1. Twist tops - but ppl here have said they cap fine.
2. Still got NO REFILL - but ppl seem to not worry about this
3. ACI - one guy said to stay away from these (but now it seems they make most bottles)

One good thing is, that they're 800ml rather than the 'standard' 750. Why is that good, because at least for the first time I use them, I will still being using one ferm and thereby just sticking with carb drops. Sure they may come out under carbed, but at least my mind might sleep a little easier thinking they wont blow.

Anyway, I think I'm starting to get the idea here. Basically there are no hard and fast rules about bottles, but you just need to give it a go and hope for the best. And in general, no one seems to have normal commercial bottles explode on them.

Guess it's just the not knowing.

Anyway, cheers all.


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## Fingerlickin_B (29/11/05)

1- As you said, they are fine. 
2- Remember the days when bottlers gave a refund on bottles because they re-used them? It's a mixture of that and the fact that they don't want to get sued if you fill them with a product other than theirs and something goes wrong. So no worries there. 
3- DO NOT be at all concerned by who actually made the bottles. The only ones I've ever seen problems with are Carlton Cold clear bottles and Stella Artois (spelling) bottles...the Stella ones have cut up a couple of barmen I know upon opening  

PZ.

*EDIT* I also meant to say don't worry, just use the bottles man, everything will be fine


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## Phoenix (29/11/05)

No worries. Good post, appreciate it.

Now for the waiting... Feels a bit like when you're a kid at christmas waiting to open the presents. But now it's waiting to bottle the first brew and then finally drink it.


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## Fingerlickin_B (29/11/05)

Phoenix said:


> Feels a bit like when you're a kid at christmas waiting to open the presents.



I feel like that too...I'm getting a set of stainless pots for Christmas...I'd rather it was a surprise because then I wouldn't know...can't bloody wait! 

Give it a while and you'll be confusing family members too with requests for unusual presents like cookware :lol: 

PZ.


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## Uncle Fester (29/11/05)

Phoenix said:


> They instructed to take only one sample just before bottling to ensure that the SG is at 1004, and only then to bottle.



If you draw the sample slowly, the air lock will reverse bubble, but no liquid will make it's way back into the fermenter. As long as you have a good seal on the fermenter, your brew will be protected by a layer of carbon dioxide on top of the beer.

To be the Devils Advocate, if you were to follow the Morgan's suggestion, what would you do if you took a reading, and it was 1010?

You cannot bottle, because the brew is not 1004 (Which I have only ever achieved brewing a cider), and you have now blown your measurement window of opportunity.......


2 readings the same over consecutive days is the most accurate.

M


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## Phoenix (29/11/05)

mandrakar said:


> To be the Devils Advocate, if you were to follow the Morgan's suggestion, what would you do if you took a reading, and it was 1010?
> [post="94317"][/post]​



First up, I made a boo boo and the instructions actually said 1005. 

But say I did that final reading and it was 1010. Assuming I'd made any necessary temp adjustments, I think I would simply write down that measurement, and leave it for another day. If the next day I found that it had not moved I would make the assumption that fermentation had indeed completed and I would bottle. However if on the second day I found yet another change, I would simply have to wait one more day.

But if nothing else, I will just think it over a little more at the time. 

Hopefully thought it should all be fine. They recommend 5 days, but I'm giving it slightly more than that. This is because I've brewed on the Sunday, and will not check for bottling until Saturday. So about an extra 24 hours in there.


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## DrewCarey82 (30/11/05)

Mate honestly I got a tonne in an auction off ebay. They where longnecks , tooheys, VB, Fosters, Carlton and I have never had a bottle crack in about 300 all twist tops.

These are fine, you'd be unlucky to find a brandname beer that uses shithouse bottles so seriously dont stress about that.

But what you do need to stress about is cleaning them properly.

What I recommend is buying a garbage bin, abottle tree, some homebrand nappy cleaner chucking about 20 bottles in a normal sized bin two normal sized spoonfulls of the napi cleaner leave for 24 hours, rinse out with hot water and stick on the bottle tree and your sweet.

Then every time after your initial cleaner wash out with hot water and get rid of all dregs, then spray with idophor(look up and you'll get plenty of threads on this) and ur painful job of washing becomes bloody easy.

And the brigalow capper is fantastic if you want to go fancier all it does is cost more money.


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## tangent (30/11/05)

yeah, i gotta agree, a good capper with a normal bell and a tirage bell is definitely money well spent


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## Phoenix (30/11/05)

Thanks Drew, sounds promising. And thanks for the info on cleaning them.


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## DrewCarey82 (30/11/05)

Bottle Tree is about a 50 buck investment and holds about 60-70 bottles its a must, if u do that method u will never have a drama.

This site is great but be careful about listening to complicated instructions some people get really technical and confuse the crap out of you.


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## Jim - Perth (30/11/05)

Try using Weihenstephan bottles. They have the following advantages:
- Brown
- Crown seal
- 500ml
- Thick


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## DrewCarey82 (30/11/05)

But once again with any bench capper it makes no difference wether its crown or screwtop.


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## tangent (30/11/05)

> This site is great but be careful about listening to complicated instructions some people get really technical and confuse the crap out of you.


lol  
Just make sure you understand where you're at and get the basics down before you progress to the next step and so on...
If you take brewing sip by sip it's not too hard to digest.
Understand racking, bulk priming and making a yeast starter and you're making good ground.

I also understand that there's different softness of metal caps. The newer ones seem to be a bit softer than the old ones and they wrap around the threaded bottles a bit better. Dunno if anyone can shed any light...


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## Beerpig (30/11/05)

Bundaberg Ginger Beer bottles

- Glass
- 750ml
- Brown
- Thick
- Plastic screw cap, same as Coopers caps

Capping isn't something I want to get into

Cheers


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## RobW (30/11/05)

tangent said:


> I also understand that there's different softness of metal caps. The newer ones seem to be a bit softer than the old ones and they wrap around the threaded bottles a bit better. Dunno if anyone can shed any light...
> [post="94429"][/post]​



I had a problem with some hard caps that sealed crown seal bottles beautifully but were difficult to get onto threaded bottles. The place I got them also sells wine & preserving equipment & the proprietor told me these caps were popular with people who bottled tomato juice because they sealed so well. They were a bronze colour. I haven't had problems with any other caps on threaded bottles (although I prefer crown seals).


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## Boozy the clown (30/11/05)

Phoenix, ACI bottles arent that bad, when my mate worked there they were on a big push to save money, as big companies do. But anyway they make the glass just thick enough, i think they were pushing the boundries when my mate was there, just make sure you check them for scratches or any point of weakness.

I gave up trying to cap threaded bottles and chucked my coopers longnecks out, man if i only knew it was the actual cap being too hard. Oh well, just have to buy a bunch of coopers...bummer.


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## Phoenix (30/11/05)

Boozy just PM'd me this:



> Phoenix, ACI bottles arent that bad, when my mate worked there they were on a big push to save money, as big companies do. But anyway they make the glass just thick enough, i think they were pushing the boundries when my mate was there, just make sure you check them for scratches or any point of weakness.
> 
> I gave up trying to cap threaded bottles and chucked my coopers longnecks out, man if i only knew it was the actual cap being too hard. Oh well, just have to buy a bunch of coopers...bummer.
> 
> ...


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## barls (30/11/05)

i use comercial bottles and have never had a problem


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## Doogiechap (5/12/05)

I find less pressure is needed to cap crown seals thus reducing paranoia about busting screw tops (not that I have ever busted any with my state of the art verge collected drill press/ bench capper :super: )


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## gonzo (22/8/06)

ive capped heaps of screw tops over the last 2 weeks are they supposed to be able to be open like screwtops or do u have to use a bottle opener


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## Tyred (22/8/06)

You can do it both ways. 

I've capped screw tops and just twisted to open. I've had a couple that just ripped my hand as well. On the ones that broke the skin, I've noticed a little rust on the inside of the cap.

I also used a bottle opener (after ripping my hand) on screw tops. Doesn't appear to make much dfference to me.


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## spog (23/8/06)

i have been capping the same bottles for 3 years,most of them are screw tops except the long necks (tallies) i use a bench capper and have had minimal problems.what ever you like just go with it.
sure i have some rejects but they are minimal...cheers...spog...


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