# Headless Homebrew



## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

I'm really enjoying my first batch of homebrew. Only problem is that it has no head and goes flat pretty quickly. I used a cooper's lager kit, 1kg of Young's brewing sugar and the yeast that came along with the cooper's kit. I did 5 days in primary, a week in secondary then bottled it. I left it for 6 weeks before opening a bottle and like I say: No head / goes flat quickly. Any ideas folks?

Thanks,

Floydmeddler


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## muckey (23/8/08)

I'd be suspicious of the bottle seals firstly.
Assuming the bottles were kept at room temp or brew temp they should be carbonated in that time OK.
If using pet bottles, give them a squeeze to see if they are tight in the hope that it is only 1 or 2 bottles that didn't have a good seal.
if glass bottles there are others better suited than me. I keg the result and bottle any leftovers in pet bottles and they always seem Ok.

I haven't used a coopers lager kit but I dont beleive it has a true lager yeast from memory so it should carbonate fairly quickly

hope thats a start :icon_cheers:


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

I'm using capped bottles and they seemed to have capped pretty well. I read somewhere that using DME as opposed to sugar helps too. Plus adding hops can make a difference. I plan to make these amendments next time! Thanks 

Any more responses/thoughts from other brewers would be highly appreciated!

Floyd


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## Thunderlips (23/8/08)

floydmeddler said:


> I'm using capped bottles and they seemed to have capped pretty well. I read somewhere that using DME as opposed to sugar helps too. Plus adding hops can make a difference. I plan to make these amendments next time! Thanks


Instead of using all sugar try a mix of dry malt extract (DME) and dextrose.

The malt will really help with head retention.
For basic kits I use 500gms DME and 500gms dextrose. 
Some dry wheat malt also goes a long way in helping head retention. About 100gms should do it.

Maybe for next time go and get a box of Coopers PET bottles at the supermarket or LHBS and you'll have no doubts about them sealing.


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## matti (23/8/08)

There are several cheats to make head but the best is hops and malt and a clean cold glass.

I get lazy sometime and go back to kit and kilo.
Here is a some simple recipes from G and G
LINKY

Some of these recipes are a bit crap in my opinion but if you tweak them they can turn out great.
Where they say add 500 gram dextrose, halve that and exchange it for 250g of Malt or maltodextrine and up the hops by double if you do.
If you brew with a yeast Like saf-23 between 12-16 degrees or S-04 from 16-20 it will improve as well.
S-05 yeast give a great brew as well aroud 16-18 degrees on the hoppier note.
Read on and brew on..


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

What can I say folks... thanks a million. Your advice has helped me loads. Enjoying a headless brew as I type. Still tastes great though!

Floyd


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## Beer&Kebab (23/8/08)

I would be looking at the glass as the culprit.. I like to use "nucleated" beer glasses.. A lot of pubs and clubs use them.. They come under the name of "Headmaster" and "Headstart".. Get one of those (I am not condoning stealing  and clean it well with hot water and rinse and air dry.. These beer glasses are hated by some but I love them.. Some say it makes their beer taste flat.. The bottom of the glass is etched or sandblasted to take energy from the carbonation to create a nice decent head. Since using these, I don't have any problem with beer head no matter what the recipie..


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## Hefty (23/8/08)

How do you clean your glasses? It could be a build up of waxes/oils from your detergent that is breaking down the head. Make sure you give your glasses a thorough rinse with hot water after (if) washing with detergent and then chill slightly.

Jono.


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## Hefty (23/8/08)

D'oh! pipped by one minute! Quick typing B&K!

Cheers!
Jono.


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## Frank (23/8/08)

Muckey said:


> I'd be suspicious of the bottle seals firstly.
> Assuming the bottles were kept at room temp or brew temp they should be carbonated in that time OK.


If there is any chance that your seals are leaking, lay your bottles down, don't stand them up. A little bit of beer will leak out and then seal your bottles. Leaving the bottles upright will allow gas to leak easily and you will never seal the gap.


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## muckey (23/8/08)

interesting idea boston, hadn't thought of that.

I hadn't got into the head retention issue as I thought there might be more to it than just glass issues - wax, oils and other contaminants will kill a head quicker than anything but cant account for flat beer. Thats got to be related to carb/ temperature I would have thought.

OH and BTW, I use 300 LDM, 100 wheat malt and a bit of dex with some dry hopping to overcome some of the k&k shortcomings :lol:


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## barry2 (23/8/08)

floydmeddler said:


> I'm really enjoying my first batch of homebrew. Only problem is that it has no head and goes flat pretty quickly. I used a cooper's lager kit, 1kg of Young's brewing sugar and the yeast that came along with the cooper's kit. I did 5 days in primary, a week in secondary then bottled it. I left it for 6 weeks before opening a bottle and like I say: No head / goes flat quickly. Any ideas folks?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Floydmeddler




What is your method for carbonating the bottled beer ?


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## braufrau (23/8/08)

Usually in winter, beer is flat because it hasn't been kept at sufficiently warm temperatures for conditioning.
I keep mine at 20C for 2 weeks.

I have had trouble with seals .. now I get HWMBO to go over all the seals when I've finished and never had a dud since.

Have had trouble just recently with a greasy glass, washed it washed, to no avail, and then got out the bicarb soda, made a bit of a paste and wiped around the glass and then rinsed with warm water and vinegar. Fixed it right up!


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## steven (23/8/08)

Floydmeddler, your yet to mention your fermentation temp, or amount of sugar (or whatever) used for priming, or your priming method. i'd be worried about these before your bottle seals and probably even the fermentables used...


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## clean brewer (23/8/08)

+1


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## Bribie G (23/8/08)

I've never had any problems with head retention by using a good quantity of LDME in kit brews.
Typical recipe might be:

kit +
500g or 1 kilo of Light Dried Malt Extract depending on style
500g or 750g Dex depending on style.
Hop teabag (lately just whack in the pellets)

200 g crystal malt grain (milled) - steeped and added to British Style bitters.

Glasses: I wash them in very hot water by putting a squirt of super strength like 'blast' or ALDI 'tandil' dishwashing liquid straight into the glass then vigorously scrubbing out with a big stainless steel pad. Doesn't scratch the glasses. Rinse three or four times and put in fridge or even freezer.


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## Thunderlips (23/8/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> I would be looking at the glass as the culprit.. I like to use "nucleated" beer glasses.. A lot of pubs and clubs use them.. They come under the name of "Headmaster" and "Headstart"..


Those glasses are really just a form of cheating.
Megaswill these days needs all the help it can get to hold a head, which is why they 
are so popular in pubs.

Any half decent homebrew, even a kit with fair use of malt should be able to hold a head in a normal beer glass.
If not, you'd need to look at your ingredients.


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

Boston said:


> If there is any chance that your seals are leaking, lay your bottles down, don't stand them up. A little bit of beer will leak out and then seal your bottles. Leaving the bottles upright will allow gas to leak easily and you will never seal the gap.



That's a great idea. Will definitely try that.


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

barry3 said:


> What is your method for carbonating the bottled beer ?



Bottling bucket / bulk priming.


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

steven said:


> Floydmeddler, your yet to mention your fermentation temp, or amount of sugar (or whatever) used for priming, or your priming method. i'd be worried about these before your bottle seals and probably even the fermentables used...



Hi, I fermented at around 20c, bulk primed using Young's priming sugar.


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> I would be looking at the glass as the culprit.. I like to use "nucleated" beer glasses.. A lot of pubs and clubs use them.. They come under the name of "Headmaster" and "Headstart".. Get one of those (I am not condoning stealing  and clean it well with hot water and rinse and air dry.. These beer glasses are hated by some but I love them.. Some say it makes their beer taste flat.. The bottom of the glass is etched or sandblasted to take energy from the carbonation to create a nice decent head. Since using these, I don't have any problem with beer head no matter what the recipie..



I know the glasses you are talking about... My mate works in a bar. Might ask him nicely to bring me a nucleated glass as an early Christmas present! Cheers.


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

In conclusion then...

A lot of you mention the glass (thanks for the advice). Last night, I really cleaned my glass out and have to admit, it made a difference. Also, I'll never use sugar again... DME for me from now on! The addition of hops will also be included in my next brew. 

Thanks for all your advice out there... 

Floydmeddler.


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## steven (23/8/08)

floydmeddler said:


> Hi, I fermented at around 20c, bulk primed using Young's priming sugar.



how many litres did you bottle and how much sugar did you use to bulkprime?


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## floydmeddler (23/8/08)

steven said:


> how many litres did you bottle and how much sugar did you use to bulkprime?



Hi, I ended up bottling around 21.5 litres and can't remember ho much I put in (will write it down next time as I now see the importance of keeping a record). I used the calculator on this website: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator...ml?10063494#tag

Thanks.
F


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## steven (24/8/08)

oh well.

personally i would venture a guess that you have picked a level of carbonation that might suit the "style" (based on the maths anyway) but not yourself.

i like my wiessbier's, and i prime 21L of 19-20C fermented beer with 280g of dextrose. this ends up slightly below what im used too out of commercial bottles.

likewise ive bottled 21L of pilsner with 200g dextrose, and it too was slightly undercarbonated.

in the past i have primed with "exact to style" amounts of sugar, and ended up with flat headless beers, which is why ive focused on priming.


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## Beer&Kebab (24/8/08)

steven said:


> oh well.
> 
> personally i would venture a guess that you have picked a level of carbonation that might suit the "style" (based on the maths anyway) but not yourself.
> 
> ...



Crikey.. I though 180g of dextrose was "normal" carbonation for a 22l batch.. When I used to bulk prime I used to like somewhere between 120 and 140 for a pilsener fresh wort kit.. I though 280g would blow the bottles ??


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## steven (24/8/08)

Beer&Kebab said:


> Crikey.. I though 180g of dextrose was "normal" carbonation for a 22l batch.. When I used to bulk prime I used to like somewhere between 120 and 140 for a pilsener fresh wort kit.. I though 280g would blow the bottles ??


horses for courses. personally i reckon 90% of bottle bomb stories have more to do with fermentation being incomplete at time of bottling, than over priming. 

have a look yourself at the recommended amounts of priming sugar to use for wheat beer. i'll admit i was worried the first time, but there is barely any more gas escaping from my wheat beer bottles than a commercial beer bottle.


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