# New Liquid Yeasts In Perth?



## hughman666 (19/10/08)

Hi all,

I was at the Malthouse HBS yesterday grabbing a couple of airlocks and saw a number of different looking yeasts in the fridge. Apparently they are cultivated by a Microbioliogy fellow at Murdoch Uni. Usual suspects were available, WLP300, 001 etc. and they're only 10 bucks. Also they looked to have considerably more yeast in them when compared side by side with their White Labs counterparts.

I'm interested in these because they're obviously going to be quite fresh and are also quite good value. My only question is around the quality....

Has anybody tried these?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/10/08)

hughman666 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was at the Malthouse HBS yesterday grabbing a couple of airlocks and saw a number of different looking yeasts in the fridge. Apparently they are cultivated by a Microbioliogy fellow at Murdoch Uni. Usual suspects were available, WLP300, 001 etc. and they're only 10 bucks. Also they looked to have considerably more yeast in them when compared side by side with their White Labs counterparts.
> 
> ...


No but im interested, how are they packaged ? Any contact details etc
GB


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## hughman666 (19/10/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> No but im interested, how are they packaged ? Any contact details etc
> GB


i didnt get any contact details but as far as packaging, plastic vials a little larger than the White Labs. maybe i'll grab one, step it up and and bring it round?


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## Duff (19/10/08)

I wonder what White Labs think about this. Are they being sold under the WLP300 Hefe name?

I know we all propagate yeast, but does selling it commercially cross any boundaries?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/10/08)

hughman666 said:


> i didnt get any contact details but as far as packaging, plastic vials a little larger than the White Labs. maybe i'll grab one, step it up and and bring it round?


That would be nice, do they have a big range available ?
GB


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## hughman666 (19/10/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> That would be nice, do they have a big range available ?
> GB


not massive range but i was told that the guy can basically propagate a number of yeasts on demand with approx 2 weeks lead time. as for the white labs names, i dont know if they are selling under those codes, i was just using them as an example.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/10/08)

hughman666 said:


> not massive range but i was told that the guy can basically propagate a number of yeasts on demand with approx 2 weeks lead time. as for the white labs names, i dont know if they are selling under those codes, i was just using them as an example.


Would be good to have enough made to do 50 L batches.
GB


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## roddersf (20/10/08)

Duff said:


> I wonder what White Labs think about this. Are they being sold under the WLP300 Hefe name?
> 
> I know we all propagate yeast, but does selling it commercially cross any boundaries?



I think white labs can sell the yeast they cultivate from their "strain store" - especially due to the equiptment needed for such an operation.

I dont think white labs would "own" the yeast strains per-se, it would all depend on where the yeast was acquired? Even then - the argument could be that white labs acquired their yeast from another source in the first place anyway... Corporations will always try to squash competition though.

hughman - do you think you can ask them if there is anyone doing the same over in NSW - or the eastern end at least?

Cheers,


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## ~MikE (20/10/08)

Duff said:


> I wonder what White Labs think about this. Are they being sold under the WLP300 Hefe name?
> 
> I know we all propagate yeast, but does selling it commercially cross any boundaries?



they don't own the yeast at all and there's nothing stopping anyone from selling it commercially (can only patent GM organisms and they're not used in brewing to my knowledge)

the only problem would be selling it with the "WLP" prefix, i'm also sure there's quality control regulations etc regarding commercially selling these. he's probably got frozen stocks of the white labs yeast and is growing up batches for a LHBS to retail.


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## the_fuzz (21/10/08)

~MikE said:


> they don't own the yeast at all and there's nothing stopping anyone from selling it commercially (can only patent GM organisms and they're not used in brewing to my knowledge)



^^^^^
Exactly - whitelabs really own the name/packaging etc - you throw whitelabs WPL002 into a new vial and call it AHB002 and there is no problem hhhmmmm (ponders new yeast farming venture)


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## hughman666 (18/3/09)

ok so stopped by malthouse yesterday and saw these yeasts there again, fairly large range going by the name of Proculture Labs.

i picked up a san francisco lager yeast called pro-25 which appears to be along the lines of a wyeast 2112 and a californian ale yeast which looks to be good old wyeast 1056, wlp001, us05 etc...

there is approx 50ml of actual yeast in each tube which is a nice healthy amount but im still stepping them up...

not bad for $10.95! how about the other retailers getting on this bandwagon?


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## clay (18/3/09)

So have you used these before? Did you notice any other varieties available?


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## Bribie G (18/3/09)

BABBs in Brisbane have slants of 13 varieties of yeasts in their yeast library for sale $4 to members. I'm definitely going to get a Burton for next time I do a Marstons style.


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## Edgewater (23/3/09)

I purchased on Thursday (19.3.09) a Proculture Labs Yeast vial from Malthouse. Pro-10 Caliafornian Ale Yeast, approximately 45ml of yeast. Informed the yeast was about a week old. I put down an AG batch the next day and trialled pitching directly into a 42lt batch without propagating it. It appears to have taken very well. Health high krausen the next morning and bubbling vigourously after about 8 hours overnight. It's Monday 23.3.09 and it is still active and bubbling. I would be intrested in hearing others results.
Edge


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## Edgewater (30/3/09)

At $10.95 with no further information other than the vial labeling the yeast as "Proculture" it was a gamble to use. I would have liked more supporting information or point of reference regarding the manufacturer and the product. 

In retrospect as a trial of the product I should have bred up the yeast to a larger volume for pitching. I made a 42 lt AG batch with an OG of 1.054, FG 1.009. The fermenter averaged 25 deg. cel. over the fermentation period. (Currently putting together my fermentation fridge). Sanitation standards were maintained during the process of making the beer as well as preparing the fermenter. I did not notice any unusual smells with the yeast when I pitched it. During the course of the fermentration I drew off samples and noted the smell was strong and not pleasant, it also left a tang towards the back of the mouth, the taste being sharp. 

I observed that the yeast did not settle into a firm yeast cake at the bottom of the fermenter, the flocculation was poor with the yeast remaining quite fluid in suspension on the bottom of the fermenter. It appeared to be easilly disturbed. The smell I noted during fermentation had reduced somewhat when I came to bottling but the after taste tang remains. I can only hope that it mellows further with storing over the next month and with refrigeration. If it turn out to be palatable I will update. 

Paying $10.95 for a product with no backing documentation or company credibility was a chance and expensive for a 'local'product. Would I do it again, no. Labour time, cost of ingredients, gas and water aside I may end up with two kegs of "beer" I have to throw out.

To the manufacturer, more information please, I would rather spend an extra $4 to get a product I know will work, Wyeast.


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## np1962 (30/3/09)

Not sure you can give a fair assesment of the yeast(any yeast) when your fermentation was far from ideal. Almost any ale yeast is going to throw some 'off' flavors when fermented at 25C. 
Would like to hear again after a brew was fermented at a more ideal 18-20C. Would make a good comparison but unlikely you would be bothered to make the effort.

Nige

No Affiliation etc etc..


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## Asher (30/3/09)

I'm hoping these guys are the goods & plan to support them until I can prove otherwise.

Their labelling is professional although the temperatures ranges are a little broad. For example the German Lager Yeast has a range from 13 to 20something (from memory) and in brackets (opt 9-12). So the info is there if you know what your looking for and how to treat it. I think its important to understand the broader market their aiming for in Perth is a little less advanced and may not have the means to ferment optimally yet. Anyway,, there's nothing like having freshly cultured yeast at your doorstep rather than having it flown 1/2 way round the world.

Currently I have Proculture's German Lager strain fermenting away at 11.5 deg in a 60 litre batch.
I have stepped it up once via a starter. The 4 litre starter took off within hours.
I did noticed when cracking the tube that there was some pressure build-up inside. This may not be a bad thing,,,,but gets you thinking

Will let you know how things go in the next few weeks
I also have a tube of their WLP300 copy to trial also

Cheers

Asher


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## ~MikE (30/3/09)

well if the general consensus on "aftermarket" yeast is people are willing and happy to use them and like the cheaper price, i might just have a good business plan for the Adelaide market  

hmm, i wonder what would be needed for an above-the-table business like this in the area of regulations, quality control etc..


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## Ronin (30/3/09)

It's quite easy to bank down strain of yeast, I've got every one I've bought stored at work (I work in an immunology lab).

I'd be quite interested to know what growth media is used to grow the yeast in. I'm happy growing yeast for my own use, I know what the ingredients of the media are. But there are some yeast media that I would not ever use for something that is going to be consumed, no matter how many times they are washed.

I would be concerned with quality control. What sort of lab is it grown in, is there a chance for cross contamination with something pathogenic? The short time I've been involved in research, I've become quite sceptical about trusting the work of others. Not saying don't use it, just be careful. Get more information about the lab.


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## kook (30/3/09)

Ronin said:


> I would be concerned with quality control. What sort of lab is it grown in, is there a chance for cross contamination with something pathogenic? The short time I've been involved in research, I've become quite sceptical about trusting the work of others. Not saying don't use it, just be careful. Get more information about the lab.



Have to agree here guys - ask the questions. I'm not going to repeat the answers I've heard here as they're only hearsay. If the answers are true though, there are some who might have cause for concern as it's well published as to some of the other things cultured in the lab.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great for a (proper) local yeast manufacturer to become available. Who knows - this may even turn into that. But I'd ask the questions now, and make the decision as to whether you're comfortable with the origin.


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## drsmurto (30/3/09)

~MikE said:


> well if the general consensus on "aftermarket" yeast is people are willing and happy to use them and like the cheaper price, i might just have a good business plan for the Adelaide market
> 
> hmm, i wonder what would be needed for an above-the-table business like this in the area of regulations, quality control etc..



You plan on charging me for yeast now?  

I assume, like all poor uni students, you work for beer?  :lol:


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## ~MikE (31/3/09)

DrSmurto said:


> You plan on charging me for yeast now?
> 
> I assume, like all poor uni students, you work for beer?  :lol:



haha no, just an idea. i wouldn't go into this as a business without putting in the time/effort/money to make it fully legit, which i cbf doing - if anything i'd probably find myself going into the research side of brewing yeasts - say transform your favorite ale strain with the Aequorea green fluorescent protein - glow in the dark beer FTW!!! 

sound advice from Ronin, can never be too careful when dealing with microbes. having said that, i doubt very much he'd use something other than potato-dextrose broth or malt extract for culturing, would be too costly to use the analytical stuff.


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## Ronin (31/3/09)

~MikE said:


> sound advice from Ronin, can never be too careful when dealing with microbes. having said that, i doubt very much he'd use something other than potato-dextrose broth or malt extract for culturing, would be too costly to use the analytical stuff.



Yeah I'm not too worried about the culture medium...just telling people to ask questions. Are the same flasks/bottles used for Brain Heart Infusion broth? I would not want that going anywhere near anything I consumed. How well are their glassware cleaned? Does the lab deal in pathogenic bacteria as well? How regularly is their autoclave tested? How is waste disposed of? Is there a chance it will carry over? What exactly is the guys qualifications?

Wyeast/White Labs are certified. Be careful, just because someone has a PhD doesn't mean they know anything. I know, I've seen it.

I have seen some quite atrocious aseptic techniques, even in post-docs. I trust myself. Everyone else's work I check.


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## Edgewater (31/3/09)

I agree that the lack of temperature control and only trialing the yeast once does not provide optimal opportunity to properly assess the Proculture yeast. Saying that with past experience I have achieved results that have been quite satisfactory under similar condititons. However moving fermentation into a temperature controlled environment is optimal. 

It would be useful for whoever is producing the Proculture product to step forward and be available to talk about the product. Even appproaching the West Coast Brewers Club to talk up the product, or offer to supply yeast for a club competion to familiarise his main consumer market in WA and to get broader feedback to the product (etc).

At this stage I still stand by my last comment that I would use a known brand of yeast supplier for future brews.


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## hughman666 (1/4/09)

quick update, i've used the wyeast 2112 equivalent and kegged the results yesterday. initial smell/taste is pretty true to style. have got the 1056 equivalent kegged also with similar results.

if people are concerned about the details and specifics of the lab's cleaning practices then it's pretty simple, dont buy em and stick with the more expensive but tested products. for those that arent so anal, they seem to be a good alternative from what ive tested so far. considering the amount of people stepping up starters in their garages with no ill effects, i'm surprised to see the level of scrutiny these yeasts are coming under...


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

hughman666 said:


> if people are concerned about the details and specifics of the lab's cleaning practices then it's pretty simple, dont buy em and stick with the more expensive but tested products. for those that arent so anal, they seem to be a good alternative from what ive tested so far. considering the amount of people stepping up starters in their garages with no ill effects, i'm surprised to see the level of scrutiny these yeasts are coming under...



I agree, if you don't care, use it. I just think people should just be informed about what they are doing.

My research project involves the use of Salmonella typhimurium as well as Salmonella typhi (the first will make you sick, the second will kill you). The lab uses Heclicobacter pylori (causes gastric ulcers and gastric cancer), Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumococcal meningitis) and legionella pneumophila (Legionairres disease). What sort of pathogens are used in this lab? Where did the guy get his qualifications?

I don't play around with this stuff. I'm am extremely anal when I work with these pathogens and I sterilise everything before I work with yeast. Everything is tested for contamination every step along the way.

I just think people should be aware of what the possible consequences are. The above bacteria may not be able to multiply in wort, I'm not sure never tested it. I know Klebsiella is a transient infection at the beginning of lambic production along with some other enterobacteriaceae so there's really no reason why other enteric bacteria like E. coli and salmonella should be unable to multiply in wort. Especially in starter cultures without the presence of hop alpha acids.

Again, I'm not saying don't do it, if you want to go ahead. Just know the risks.

Me, I'll be paying the extra $6 (or $3 from Ross) and getting the quality controlled product.

James


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## Online Brewing Supplies (1/4/09)

kook said:


> Have to agree here guys - ask the questions. I'm not going to repeat the answers I've heard here as they're only hearsay. If the answers are true though, there are some who might have cause for concern as it's well published as to some of the other things cultured in the lab.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great for a (proper) local yeast manufacturer to become available. Who knows - this may even turn into that. But I'd ask the questions now, and make the decision as to whether you're comfortable with the origin.


I agree, What else is produced in that lab?I am only going on hearsay as well but I know its not only yeast.They need to make this more transparent on where its being produced and by whom, I think we have all had some hearsay.Is there a reason they are not wanting to identify themselves?Come on guys come clean , you could have a good market but people are not going to trust you unless you answer the questions.Till then I spent the extra bucks on a proven certified product.
GB


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Till then I spent the extra bucks on a proven certified product.



And again, it's not like we're talking about a huge amount of money here. We're talking a few dollars savings.


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## Edgewater (1/4/09)

Referring to the original thread the question was seeking feedback regarding the product's quality. I am happy to hear that another vial purchased around the same time I bought mine has produced a batch of beer that is acceptable. 

I'm happy with the feedback that has been raised. It may present that a mountain is being made out of a mole hill but informed choice regarding a product is important too.


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## kook (1/4/09)

hughman666 said:


> if people are concerned about the details and specifics of the lab's cleaning practices then it's pretty simple, dont buy em and stick with the more expensive but tested products. for those that arent so anal, they seem to be a good alternative from what ive tested so far. considering the amount of people stepping up starters in their garages with no ill effects, i'm surprised to see the level of scrutiny these yeasts are coming under...



It's not about cleaning practices. I'm sure everything is cleaned well. It's about whether the yeast are stored in a manner and propagated in a manner that will prevent any chance of cross contamination with the other things that are played around with in the lab. Also about whether other people have access to the yeast (i.e. are the storage facilities locked) and may be able to cross contaminate a sample by mistake.

What I've heard could be wrong - and I hope it is. I'd actually rather it be someones garage!!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (1/4/09)

kook said:


> It's not about cleaning practices. I'm sure everything is cleaned well. It's about whether the yeast are stored in a manner and propagated in a manner that will prevent any chance of cross contamination with the other things that are played around with in the lab. Also about whether other people have access to the yeast (i.e. are the storage facilities locked) and may be able to cross contaminate a sample by mistake.
> 
> What I've heard could be wrong - and I hope it is. I'd actually rather it be someones garage!!


My point exactly, also do these people have public liability cover on the off chance someone gets a nasty dose of some thing?Yes ,safer done in the back shed at this point in time.I would like to see it get up and going as long as it all becomes transparent.
GB


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## ~MikE (1/4/09)

kook said:


> What I've heard could be wrong - and I hope it is. I'd actually rather it be someones garage!!



no, i'll take my laminar flow any day of the week (although the lab i'm in doesn't deal with pathogens).


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

~MikE said:


> no, i'll take my laminar flow any day of the week (although the lab i'm in doesn't deal with pathogens).



And that would be fine, but some labs like mine do...so it needs to be clear where these yeast are coming from, how they are propagated and the qualifications of the person need to be known.

And my lab would lynch me if I was to work with yeast in a flow hood. They can be quite difficult to remove from tissue culture. So they go nowhere near it.


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## Asher (1/4/09)

Lager fermenting well... On its way up for a diacetyl rest ATM...
No sign of gastric cancer yet

There is a bigger dilemma I see here... As I'm an avid comp enterer. Will I need to disclose that I used this yeast so judges can choose whether to consume this beer or not? Will I be liable for any cancerous growths that appear in Judges if don't disclose?

Now as I do enjoy sharing beer with friends at club meetings etc. I wouldn't want people to not taste my beer for any of the reasons mentioned above. So I think I'll go back to using northern hemisphere yeasts until more is known about this stuffs origin.



Asher


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

Asher said:


> Lager fermenting well... On its way up for a diacetyl rest ATM...
> No sign of gastric cancer yet
> 
> There is a bigger dilemma I see here... As I'm an avid comp enterer. Will I need to disclose that I used this yeast so judges can choose whether to consume this beer or not? Will I be liable for any cancerous growths that appear in Judges if don't disclose?
> ...



Yep completely liable  

I was actually reading an article a while back about the anti-helicobacter properties of hop alpha acids, so I guess that means they could grow in unhopped starters. 

That being said most people are colonised with this pathogen anyway. So drinking beer may actually kill of the bacteria in your stomach? I think I feel a grant application coming on...and a whole lot of 'research'. :lol:


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## Sammus (1/4/09)

so theyre saying now that h.pylori can cause cancer and ulcers? 
I remember my old man pushing this theory 10+ years ago and people laughed at him. Funny too, in the 50s, his old man got shouted down for claiming that smoking can cause cancer... ah well. The nature of the beast I guess. /ot


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## Ross (1/4/09)

Has anyone had the decency to approach this new Company & ask the relevant questions?
I'm also guessing that whoever is stocking this product, has all the necessary information?

Cheers Ross


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

Sammus said:


> so theyre saying now that h.pylori can cause cancer and ulcers?
> I remember my old man pushing this theory 10+ years ago and people laughed at him. Funny too, in the 50s, his old man got shouted down for claiming that smoking can cause cancer... ah well. The nature of the beast I guess. /ot



Pretty sure that's where the research is taking us...but yeah this is off topic.


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## sinkas (1/4/09)

Form what I see they are not a company, 
I hope our tax payers NHMRC dollars are not being spent for someone to culture up some 1056 in between surfing the net and drinking another gallon of coffee


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

Ross said:


> Has anyone had the decency to approach this new Company & ask the relevant questions?
> I'm also guessing that whoever is stocking this product, has all the necessary information?
> 
> Cheers Ross



I was under the impression from the OP that it was just a research fellow at murdoch uni making a bit of money on the side. You aren't a research fellow in "brewing yeast distribution". If it is a valid company, then I'm sure that they have the proper procedures to ensure quality. If it isn't then the lab head probably doesn't even know he's doing it. 

I'd love it if an aussie company would set up to grow and distribute yeast. But until it's an company with the proper procedures/approvals in place I'll stick with Wyeast.


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## Ronin (1/4/09)

sinkas said:


> Form what I see they are not a company,
> I hope our tax payers NHMRC dollars are not being spent for someone to culture up some 1056 in between surfing the net and drinking another gallon of coffee



Most researchers that I know work quite long hours, the coffee's necessary dammit  

Damn off topic again...


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## ~MikE (1/4/09)

Ronin said:


> And my lab would lynch me if I was to work with yeast in a flow hood. They can be quite difficult to remove from tissue culture. So they go nowhere near it.


yeah, i'd be very much lynched myself if i used a tissue culture flow hood, understandably so


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## midworld08 (6/4/09)

Gudday guys,

Colin here from Proculture. I'm putting together an FAQ just now and the website should be up hopefully by the end of the week if all goes well.

We haven't been hiding, if you had asked Brian @ Malthouse to get us to contact you I am sure he would have passed on the contact details. It was Roy @ TWOC that brought this conversation to our attention.

In short, yes it is a young business, but we have been growing yeast for around 4yrs now. Yes it has an ABN, and registered with ASIC. We have 88 strains available, and getting more as time goes on , and we are serious about it. The yeast is grown on natural media, direct from our own mash tun/kettle set up. Dr Wayne Reeve is the other partner of the bussiness getting his quals @ Murdoch Uni. Pressure build up in the tube is a good sign, it should happen when you bring the yeast up to room temperature before pitching them in. We currently supply 3 microbreweries.

I leave it at that and I'll let you know when the skeleton website is up for you to have a look and hopefully that will put some of your fears to rest. Please note that our circumstances are changing in the next month as we have just secured a new laboratory @ murdoch as we have grown somewhat, so I don't want to do all this twice.

Cheers
Colin

PS I'll be dropping in here more often now.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/4/09)

midworld08 said:


> Gudday guys,
> 
> Colin here from Proculture. I'm putting together an FAQ just now and the website should be up hopefully by the end of the week if all goes well.
> 
> ...


Good on you Colin.Drop me a PM and we will see what you have to offer.Sounds exciting.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/4/09)

Ross said:


> Has anyone had the decency to approach this new Company & ask the relevant questions?
> I'm also guessing that whoever is stocking this product, has all the necessary information?
> 
> Cheers Ross


We were waiting for you Ross. :lol: 
GB


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## proculture (6/4/09)

Hi everyone,

I would like to introduce myself. My name is Dr Wayne Reeve and I am a senior lecturer at Murdoch University lecturing in cell biology and microbiology. I am also a partner (along with Colin Reeve) in the newly established business Proculture. 

I obtained my PhD in molecular microbiology and have since accumulated over 12 years research experience in microbiology. I lead a research team at Murdoch University and have 8 PhD students and 1 honours student actively involved in researching various aspects in microbiology. My current focus in research is centred on establishing the exact complete DNA sequence (genomes) of 7 microorganisms. This research is funded by the Department of Energy in the USA through the Joint genome Institute (JGI) (and no Im not funded by the NHMRC and definitely do not waste tax payers money...but agree coffee is a necessity as is a good brew once in awhile!). Unfortunately, I missed the threads posted since I was in the USA at the JGI until recently. But thanks to [email protected] for making me aware of the discussions that have been taking place. In addition to all this I regularly culture strains and try to make interesting beers with them! 

I would like to say that it is great to see such active discussion from the brewing community. In fact I would love to make the conversation more productive and discuss strain attributes and the potential for application in brewing...the latter a topic we all love doing. But first I understand that you all need to be informed about the new product appearing on the shelves! Proculture is a business that will provide pure cultures of yeast strains to those of you that demand freshness and quality in their brewing. The production of the yeast occurs in a dedicated yeast culture laboratory at Murdoch University. Rest assured there are no pathogenic organisms propagated in the building. In fact the strictest code of ethics is in operation to ensure the product is contaminant free when it leaves the premises. The yeasts are cultured on guaranteed food safe media that is sterilized before it is inoculated. The cultured yeasts are then subjected to a quality control process that ensures they are pure. All strains are recovered from cryogenic storage prior to inoculation to minimise genetic drift. 

I cannot vouch for the experiences of fellow threader Ronin but the scientific colleagues I mix with are all thoroughly professional and experts in their areas. I can only offer people the opportunity to exploit what is being offered here for what I feel is an absolute bargain for a top quality product manufactured in WA!

To those of you that are interested there will be a website available soon. I will endeavour to check the threads more often.

I wish you all the best in your brewing! 

Cheers

Wayne


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## pbrosnan (6/4/09)

Thank you Wayne for that most informative and complete reply. It sounds like a thoroughly commercial grade product. The fact that you supply 3 micros would certainly give me the confidence to at least give your cultures a go. On another point, it's interesting that some home brewers would be so skeptical of a new commercial product yet quite happy to use yeasts cultured in garages by their mates. Oh and 25 degrees for an ale, sounds like a Coopers kit temp.


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## hughman666 (6/4/09)

well it's good to know that i'm not going to die from some nasty disease attributable to these yeasts - as some on this thread would have us believe  

i've now used a few of these and have had no issues, all have been true to style. and like i said before, considering they are only $10 and have more yeast than a white labs vial, i'll be sticking with this. if only other retailers could get on board with it, neville get cracking!


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## T.D. (6/4/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> We were waiting for you Ross. :lol:
> GB



Its great to see your support of this Neville. Personally I can't understand why any retailer wouldn't be getting behind it! I say let the product do the talking. I for one would love to see a local yeast producer. If anything it would stop those nasty exchange rate driven price rises...


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## dj1984 (6/4/09)

So who is stocking these or who is going to stock these?


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## Ross (6/4/09)

Not quite sure what you are inferring there TD. My only post on this subject was to ask if anyone had had the decency to ask Proculture for the facts, after a lot of far from supportive posts from the local community. I'm in full support of this new venture & have already contacted them directly offering such. Great to see an Australian company taking this on board & yes should make for more stable prices during these turbulent times  

cheers Ross


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## RobB (6/4/09)

88 strains produced on my doorstep.  You've got my support.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/4/09)

hughman666 said:


> well it's good to know that i'm not going to die from some nasty disease attributable to these yeasts - as some on this thread would have us believe
> 
> i've now used a few of these and have had no issues, all have been true to style. and like i said before, considering they are only $10 and have more yeast than a white labs vial, i'll be sticking with this. if only other retailers could get on board with it, neville get cracking!


The biggest problem was getting any information on the products, as you can imagine some retailers are protective of their sources.Now all is apparent I very happy to get on board.West Australia showing the way again. :super: 
GB


----------



## mfeighan (7/4/09)

I can say im keen of using home grown produce. just wish it wasn't such a long drive to get it


----------



## Doogiechap (7/4/09)

Hmmm Murdoch Uni 5 mins away or TWOC..... 5 mins away.
Gotta say I'm a little bit exited


----------



## mattwest (7/4/09)

Am I missing something here, but surely this yeast is of a higher quality than what people achieve culturing Cooper's bottle yeast with apparently no ill effects?


----------



## Tony M (7/4/09)

Pitched a bavarian lager (Pro27) at 15C straight from the vial and it was away in about six hours and multiplying enthusiastically 24 hours later at 12C. This stuff looks really promising.


----------



## Jye (7/4/09)

This is great and I hope all Aussie HBS get behind them.

But the big question is what bugs do they have


----------



## kook (7/4/09)

Great to hear the facts from the source.

My apologies for questioning the location used for propagation, though working in an academic field I'm sure you can appreciate people asking questions 

I'll have to pick up a vial and give this a go. A local yeast lab will be a great asset not just for Perth but for Australia.


----------



## sinkas (7/4/09)

WestOzBrew said:


> Am I missing something here, ?



I am afraid you are, or were as the new info would suggest


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

I appreciate the supplier response but I still have no idea of contact info? PM sent but no response as yet. Any one got a contact for these yeast propagating Ninjas. h34r: 
GB


----------



## Ronin (7/4/09)

proculture said:


> I cannot vouch for the experiences of fellow threader Ronin but the scientific colleagues I mix with are all thoroughly professional and experts in their areas. I can only offer people the opportunity to exploit what is being offered here for what I feel is an absolute bargain for a top quality product manufactured in WA!



Hi Wayne,

That's the sort of information that I thought was required before I would buy these with confidence. I think what you're doing is great, as long as it's done in the right way, which it appears you are doing.

I take it you've never met some ah...how to be discreet...international PhD/masters students who are in the course because they can pay their way rather than by merit? I've met more than enough in my years at two universities in melbourne, and wouldn't trust them to culture anything, let alone anything I'm going to consume! EDIT: To be fair, it's the minority of students I'm talking about, most are quite good.

Best of luck with your endeavour.

James


----------



## Philthy79 (7/4/09)

Ive used a few of these yeasts - an english/yorks style and german lager, both brewed at correct temps, and they were excellent. I'm a kits and bits brewerand make sure i use these yeasts almost all the time now. I drive SOR to get to Malthouse HBS so i can use the yeasts etc.....

My 2c....

Phil


----------



## KoNG (7/4/09)

I'll be giving them a go for sure.
Let us know when you get them sorted Neville.....

the Yorkshire style you mentioned there Philthy.. sounds like a great first purchase..!


----------



## warrenlw63 (7/4/09)

KoNG said:


> I'll be giving them a go for sure.
> Let us know when you get them sorted Neville.....
> 
> the Yorkshire style you mentioned there Philthy.. sounds like a great first purchase..!



Noooooo!! Not turning yer back on your old mate Windsor?  :lol: 

No more repack jack bitter?  

Warren -


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

KoNG said:


> I'll be giving them a go for sure.
> Let us know when you get them sorted Neville.....
> 
> the Yorkshire style you mentioned there Philthy.. sounds like a great first purchase..!



Yeah, that one sounds the goods.


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> No more repack jack


----------



## ~MikE (7/4/09)

88 strains? i think my penis just shrank a little


----------



## dj1984 (7/4/09)

~MikE said:


> 88 strains? i think my penis just shrank a little


BAHAHAAA :lol:


----------



## Ross (7/4/09)

Hopefully these new yeasts will continue to be available at a good price - The indication we've already been given is that there is already a price rise, as they were put out cheap to get into the market place. If there's much of a rise I can't see us stocking in preference to Wyeast Smackpacks, so fingers crossed.


Cheers Ross


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

Ross said:


> Hopefully these new yeasts will continue to be available at a good price - The indication we've already been given is that there is already a price rise, as they were put out cheap to get into the market place. If there's much of a rise I can't see us stocking in preference to Wyeast Smackpacks, so fingers crossed.
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross


So by the time you get them shipped they would be about the same price as Wyeast ? The advantage I have is I dont have to ship just drop in and pick them up.Straight from the fridge to the esky. 
GB


----------



## Ronin (7/4/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> So by the time you get them shipped they would be about the same price as Wyeast ? The advantage I have is I dont have to ship just drop in and pick them up.Straight from the fridge to the esky.
> GB



Mind you there is something said for buying australian. The issue most people have with aussie made is that it's more expensive. If it's the same price, is a good product and comes from a certified company, which it appears to, shouldn't we support them? Even if it ends up costing $1-2 more per pack?

I know I'd rather my money stay in the country than go to the US.


----------



## Sammus (7/4/09)

No to mention the 88 different strains available 

And whats wrong with it going to the US, their economy is in worse shape than ours haha.


----------



## warrenlw63 (7/4/09)

Well put Ronin. I know there's been attempts to produce locally previously. Peet Yeast comes to mind. Unfortunately they're now past tense.

Where I think the market is ready now is there's a heck of a lot more brewers home and micro who'll use the stuff than there was in 2000. We're probably one of the biggest HB consumer markets in the world now surely?

And Ross all things rise in price. Didn't you originally market Wyeast packs at around $11? You of all people should be encouraging not discouraging competition.  

Warren -


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

Ross said:


> they were put out cheap to get into the market place.



This sounds familiar actually... Oh yeah, $9.80 Wyeast... What price are they now Ross???


----------



## ham2k (7/4/09)

T.D. said:


> This sounds familiar actually... Oh yeah, $9.80 Wyeast... What price are they now Ross???



http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AUDUSD=X&t=1y

it's not rocket surgery


----------



## Ross (7/4/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> You of all people should be encouraging not discouraging competition.
> 
> Warren -



Absolutley  - where was I discouraging competition, did I miss something :unsure: ? 
We actually entered the market with $9.80 Smack packs with a bigger margin than we have today - If the dollar returns, so will the price. Hopefully we'll have both products available, having the best choice available has always been what CraftBrewer is about.

cheers ross


----------



## warrenlw63 (7/4/09)

ham2k said:


> it's not rocket surgery



No it's called good sales acumen... Start out cheap to establish a client base or give the drug user their first fix free and then bring them back to reality.  

Dollar falling or rising is probably irrelevant. Other retailer's prices for same items remained at nearly a constant for the same period of time. Be honest it was never going to stay at that price regardless of where the Aus$ was heading.

Warren -


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

ham2k said:


> http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AUDUSD=X&t=1y
> 
> it's not rocket surgery


 
:lol: clearly you are not a rocket surgeon... AUD/USD has depreciated roughly 30%. Now go and calculate the % price rise....


----------



## Sammus (7/4/09)

When they came in they were 9.80aud ~$9.60usd (at 1AUD = 0.98USD) Now theyre $13.95 ~ $9.70usd (at 1AUD = 0.70USD). Not too much difference there.

Or another way of looking at it, to buy 1USD it used to cost us about $1.02, now it costs $1.42. That's a 40% increase, not 30%. And similarly, CB price of wyeast, going from 9.80 is a 42% increase -- pretty close IMO. Doesn't bother me, MHB is my local and sells them for $12.95 a pop.


----------



## ~MikE (7/4/09)

I imagine as proculture grows, the productions costs will drop. one of the most basic principles in the business world, the more units one produces, the cheaper the unit cost will be. I'll be grabbing proculture if i can.


----------



## KoNG (7/4/09)

It's just great to have another option. And being australian, they deserve a good go. The more we get behind them, the more we'll get from them.
As we've seen so many times before, people will spend weeks organising a bulk buy, to save $10. You should be able to save that now on just 2 vials of aus yeast.
Oh and i live in perth now. So lucky me...


----------



## therook (7/4/09)

T.D. said:


> :lol: clearly you are not a rocket surgeon... AUD/USD has depreciated roughly 30%. Now go and calculate the % price rise....





What the hell is a Rocket Surgeon  

Rook


----------



## Sammus (7/4/09)

:lol: I didn't even notice that. Someone who operates on rockets?


----------



## warrenlw63 (7/4/09)

therook said:


> What the hell is a Rocket Surgeon
> 
> Rook



Somebody who makes sure space cadets stay alive. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

therook said:


> What the hell is a Rocket Surgeon
> 
> Rook


I thought I was the only person who didnt know  

GB


----------



## Supra-Jim (7/4/09)

Rocket Surgeon is similar to a Brain Scientist, just a bit of switcheroo going on.

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## KoNG (7/4/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> Rocket Surgeon is similar to a Brain Scientist, just a bit of switcheroo going on.
> 
> :icon_cheers: SJ


haha. 
the fact that had to be explained is funny. Me laughing.


----------



## warrenlw63 (7/4/09)

I know somebody who worked at a Baker's as a Donut-Jammer but that's another story. B) 

Warren -


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

Sammus said:


> to buy 1USD it used to cost us about $1.02, now it costs $1.42. That's a 40% increase, not 30%. And similarly, CB price of wyeast, going from 9.80 is a 42% increase -- pretty close IMO. Doesn't bother me, MHB is my local and sells them for $12.95 a pop.



Very true Sammus, but the only problem is this assumes the yeast is being sold at cost. Its a base-effect issue. Using a hypothetical cost of say $5 per pack, the AUD depreciation would have caused an increased AUD cost to the retailer of around $2 per pack. Yet the price has increased by double that. Essentially what has happened is the new price has been calculated using the retail price, not the cost price. 

This is actually quite common I have found. The other time you see it is when you hear something like "wholesale grain prices will increase by 30% next month" and then you discover that retail prices have actually increased by 30%. Nobody ever really thinks about it, but essentially the retailer is not just increasing prices to account for the rise in costs, but is also raising their profit margin by the same percentage.

Anyway, enough of these discussions, the best part about this thread is its an Aussie product so will not be subject to any of these exchange rate shenanigans!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

T.D. said:


> Very true Sammus, but the only problem is this assumes the yeast is being sold at cost. Its a base-effect issue. Using a hypothetical cost of say $5 per pack, the AUD depreciation would have caused an increased AUD cost to the retailer of around $2 per pack. Yet the price has increased by double that. Essentially what has happened is the new price has been calculated using the retail price, not the cost price.
> 
> This is actually quite common I have found. The other time you see it is when you hear something like "wholesale grain prices will increase by 30% next month" and then you discover that retail prices have actually increased by 30%. Nobody ever really thinks about it, but essentially the retailer is not just increasing prices to account for the rise in costs, but is also raising their profit margin by the same percentage.
> 
> Anyway, enough of these discussions, the best part about this thread is its an Aussie product so will not be subject to any of these exchange rate shenanigans!


Wait until we bring in the new West Australian Peso system , then you will be paying way more gringo's.  
Off for a siesta.
GB


----------



## Ronin (7/4/09)

Ross said:


> Absolutley  - where was I discouraging competition, did I miss something :unsure: ?
> We actually entered the market with $9.80 Smack packs with a bigger margin than we have today - If the dollar returns, so will the price. Hopefully we'll have both products available, having the best choice available has always been what CraftBrewer is about.
> 
> cheers ross



I keep forgetting how the exchange rate effects the price of US products. That's another of my rants, when the computer games I play are still $100 when the aussie dollar was so strong compared to the US....

I like seeing a retailer passing on exchange rate savings to the consumer.


----------



## ham2k (7/4/09)

T.D. said:


> This is actually quite common I have found. The other time you see it is when you hear something like "wholesale grain prices will increase by 30% next month" and then you discover that retail prices have actually increased by 30%. Nobody ever really thinks about it, but essentially the retailer is not just increasing prices to account for the rise in costs, but is also raising their profit margin by the same percentage.



i don't see the problem with this. 

Profit margins are a percentage. Someone doesn't take a $2 profit on both a $10 item and a $10,000 item. 

When a product's cost goes up, the investment by the business in that product goes up too and so the business should demand the same return on their money.


Anyway, i am excited by the prospect of 88 different strains of yeast, can't wait for the website to be up


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I appreciate the supplier response but I still have no idea of contact info? PM sent but no response as yet. Any one got a contact for these yeast propagating Ninjas. h34r:
> GB


 :excl: 
Any body?
GB


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

ham2k said:


> i don't see the problem with this.
> 
> Profit margins are a percentage. Someone doesn't take a $2 profit on both a $10 item and a $10,000 item.



I don't know why I am replying, this thread is already off topic enough. We are not talking about a difference in price of thousands of dollars, we are talking about a small exogenous increase in cost. Yet the retailer seems to think they deserve an increase in profit as well, for doing absolutely nothing! Its just a pet hate of mine...

Ok enough! Lets get back on topic!


----------



## KingPython (7/4/09)

So what's the price of these things now?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

King Python said:


> So what's the price of these things now?


I hope to be able to answer that tomorrow.Hang in there.  
GB


----------



## T.D. (7/4/09)

I think somebody mentioned something about $10 but that may not be the finished article.

So presumably there will also be quite a few genuinely new cultures in the selection too, given that there seems to be a bigger selection than the US brands offer. This is exciting!


----------



## Ross (7/4/09)

King Python said:


> So what's the price of these things now?



Available from the Malthouse & TWOC in Perth I believe at $10 a pop.

cheers Ross

edit: Don't answer phone while posting


----------



## KingPython (7/4/09)

That's like a saving of $4, so far it looks good.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (7/4/09)

Ross said:


> Available from the Malthouse & TWOC in Perth I believe at $10 a pop.
> 
> cheers Ross
> 
> edit: Don't answer phone while posting


And Gryphon Brewing real soon.  
GB


----------



## RobB (7/4/09)

Another potential plus is that these guys are more likely to be more responsive to consumer requests. Our voices are lost in the huge American market, but with these guys we might actually be heard.

1469 permanently available, re-introduction of the Leuven strain, the wish list goes on........it can't hurt to ask.


----------



## RetsamHsam (8/4/09)

Contact details are on the web. I have sent them to Neville


----------



## T.D. (8/4/09)

Another one I would LOVE to see is a version of the Southwold Ale strain. WLP used to do it as a Platinum Series but recently pulled the plug. It is the best ale yeast I have used by a country mile. _Supposedly_ Wyeast British Ale II is meant to be the same, but I tried that and while its nice, its not the same strain...


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (8/4/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> Contact details are on the web. I have sent them to Neville


Thanks: much appreciated! :beer: I would imagine we should have some stock after Easter and some news on whats available.If they operate like Wyeast, you place your order and they propagate that yeast up for you.Takes about a week.
GB


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (8/4/09)

Is there a list of what the 88 available strains are?

C&B
TDA


----------



## midworld08 (8/4/09)

Please direct all queries to [email protected] The website will answer Q's on what strains are available soon.

Thanx for the patience.
Colin


----------



## cdbrown (14/4/09)

Let me know what you get in stock Neville and I'll arrange a drop in on the way home some day.


----------



## grabman (18/4/09)

Basic website is at http://www.proculture.com.au not a lot of info as yet. But hey looks very promising for a supplier of "fresh" yeast on our doorsteps!

Grab


----------



## kook (18/4/09)

Back in stock at Malthouse now - picked up a Cal Ale today. Will pitch this afternoon.


----------



## hughman666 (29/4/09)

picked up a proculture 18 today which is the classic wyeast 3068/wlp300 equivalent.

there is a *lot* of yeast in this baby, the proculture test tube is approx 80% full!!!

ive only pitched half of it onto a starter, leaving the rest for another 4-6 generations....10-12 generations for $10!!


----------



## kook (29/4/09)

kook said:


> Back in stock at Malthouse now - picked up a Cal Ale today. Will pitch this afternoon.



Sorry - it was a "American Sierra Nevada Ale" yeast (PRO-10) which I'm presuming is a 1056/WLP001/US-05 equivalent.

Checked my APA (with this yeast today). It went bonkers to begin with (even at 18C!), but has now slowed down. Nearly done, very happy so far. There was a good 30ml of yeast in the tube.

I'll be trying some of the others in the coming months 


Colin - which of your strains is the equivalent of WY3787 / WLP530 (Westmalle origin) ?


----------



## Sammus (29/4/09)

With the amount of questions about yorky 1469 around I'm surprised noone has asked about an equivalent for it yet


----------



## Tony M (30/4/09)

Tony M said:


> Pitched a bavarian lager (Pro27) at 15C straight from the vial and it was away in about six hours and multiplying enthusiastically 24 hours later at 12C. This stuff looks really promising.


I've been drinking this for a couple of days after 8 days at 12/11C, 3 days at18C then a week in a jerry at 4C. The resulting beer is clear and a most satisfactory flavour. Better get started on another as this will disappear fast.


----------



## RetsamHsam (30/4/09)

Any news on any of the usual suspects stocking the ProCulture range??


----------



## RobB (30/4/09)

kook said:


> ....... There was a good 30ml of yeast in the tube........



Any idea what kind of cell count that equates to?


----------



## RetsamHsam (30/4/09)

Yeah.. I don't know if you can simply go on volume. Whitelabs state that there yeast is concentrated, so while it may look like there is more yeast in the ProCulture vial there may well not be.

Although alot of people are reporting that they are witnessing very short lag times so they may well contain a very high cell count.


----------



## Sammus (30/4/09)

If you assume it's fresh yeast you should be able to go on volume of the white compact layer. I think when WL say it's concentrated, its probably just clearing up that although a wyeast smack pack contains more liquid, that liquid contains nutrient and stuff, whereas a WL tube is predominantly yeast cells.

According to this http://www.bjcp.org/cep/WyeastYeastLife.pdf a claculation on p39 says there is about 1 billion cells per ml of slurry. So 30ml ~ 30bn cells. I think wyeast smackpacks advertise 100bn. Not sure about WL.


----------



## midworld08 (1/5/09)

The equivalent of the WLP530 is PRO-87. The PRO-10 is a WLP001 equiv. A lot of the yeasts behave in the way you mention. They chomp into the simple sugars first, increase in cell quantity, and then slow and get into chewing through the earlier by products and more complex sugars.
Cheers
Colin



kook said:


> Sorry - it was a "American Sierra Nevada Ale" yeast (PRO-10) which I'm presuming is a 1056/WLP001/US-05 equivalent.
> 
> Checked my APA (with this yeast today). It went bonkers to begin with (even at 18C!), but has now slowed down. Nearly done, very happy so far. There was a good 30ml of yeast in the tube.
> 
> ...


----------



## midworld08 (1/5/09)

Malty Cultural said:


> Any idea what kind of cell count that equates to?



There is 1x 10^9 cells per millilitre in the yeast slurry. I worry when I see people adding less than the full amount, only as some have not shaken them up thoroughly before using them, and don't get the amount of cells that they think are using, and then results vary. As long as you shake them thoroughly, and then decant out want you want to use, and let that reach room temp before pitching everything should run well. Its just like the smack packs, they sit at room temp before pitching. The yeast activate and don't get a temperature shock.
Cheers
Colin
PS make sure you don't leave the lids down tight on the vials at room temp, or leave them too long, they blow off like champagne corks when the yeast wake up and start out on the nutrients in the solution.


----------



## RetsamHsam (20/5/09)

Any update on this GB or CB??


----------



## Duff (20/5/09)

grabman said:


> Basic website is at http://www.proculture.com.au/Index.html not a lot of info as yet. But hey looks very promising for a supplier of "fresh" yeast on our doorsteps!
> 
> Grab



Website seems down. Do we get in touch with Malthouse and TWOC? Do they ship to the east coast?


----------



## Ronin (20/5/09)

Duff said:


> Website seems down. Do we get in touch with Malthouse and TWOC? Do they ship to the east coast?



It's there, it's just wrong...take off the index.html

http://www.proculture.com.au/

James

EDIT: That's quite a large yeast list.


----------



## RobB (20/5/09)

It just keeps getting better. It looks like they intend to sell cultures for cheese making as well.


----------



## fraser_john (20/5/09)

What a great read, sounds like two brothers with all the practical experience to make it work.....

Wonder if my local HBS in Geelong will ever stock liquid yeasts.....


----------



## Ronin (20/5/09)

fraser_john said:


> Wonder if my local HBS in Geelong will ever stock liquid yeasts.....



I've been wondering that too since I moved down here last year. Not holding my breath...


----------



## midworld08 (23/5/09)

Ronin said:


> I've been wondering that too since I moved down here last year. Not holding my breath...



If you guys want to get the yeast east then you are going to have to convince your local HBS. For now that means asking them to supply, which means you will have to be willing to pay around $1-1.50 more per vial for the postage and packing. Running a poll as to which yeasts you would like to use with others, and asking your HBS to supply is the go. Some people are Wyeast people some are Whitelabs. We have equivalents of both so take a pick and make some enquires at your local HBS, as we certainly don't know them all. We can recommend a list of fast movers, but would prefer if you pick.
Colin


----------



## big d (23/5/09)

If [email protected] stocks them in the near future i will certainly give them a try.Cant beat freshness.

Cheers
Big D


----------



## Osangar (30/5/09)

I have used two of the yeasts a Pro10 for a clone of LCPA APA and a Pro68 for a clone of JS Golden Ale.

These yeasts I pitched at ~25c and dropped to 18c in the fermenting fridge. I did not make any starter, they went in straight from the vial.

They both took a little while longer to get active than I have seen before most likely as I did not use a starter - but after 24 hours they were steaming along. 

The result after a few weeks bottle conditioning is terrific. Both brews came out great and taste excellent far superior to dry yeast and a match for when I have used liquid yeasts in these recipes before. 

I will be using these products again if the price is competitive to the imported liquid yeasts.


----------



## JSB (24/6/09)

any further news on these beasties??? 

Cheers
JSB


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (24/6/09)

JSB said:


> any further news on these beasties???
> 
> Cheers
> JSB


The communications from/to Proculture are not the best I have seen, I have bought this to their attention and hope to have a launch date very soon on my web page.From all reports the product is great.I hope they have some 1469 West Yorkshire when we go live. :icon_cheers: 
GB


----------



## Jim_Levet (24/6/09)

Great to see someone giving a bit of support to these guys Gryph, well done.
James


----------



## mika (24/6/09)

They're being supported at all the half reasonable Homebrew stores in WA. Just none of them really do the web shopping thing. And you're still seeing the occassional teething problems that are to be expected with a new product, so it's probably better for all that it takes a little while before it starts getting shipped all over the country.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (24/6/09)

mika said:


> They're being supported at all the half reasonable Homebrew stores in WA. Just none of them really do the web shopping thing. And you're still seeing the occassional teething problems that are to be expected with a new product, so it's probably better for all that it takes a little while before it starts getting shipped all over the country.


Mika its more a communication thing! Their web site just doesn't work.I think the product is good and read to go.I cant sell it if I cant order it.
GB


----------



## chappo1970 (24/6/09)

Ross said:


> Not quite sure what you are inferring there TD. My only post on this subject was to ask if anyone had had the decency to ask Proculture for the facts, after a lot of far from supportive posts from the local community. I'm in full support of this new venture & have already contacted them directly offering such. Great to see an Australian company taking this on board & yes should make for more stable prices during these turbulent times
> 
> cheers Ross




Here, here! Let me know when it's in stock mate. If it's Aussie I'll give it whirl. I might even get my nirvana of a true Aussie ale, who knows?

Cheers

Chappo


----------



## RobB (25/6/09)

From what I can gather, the yeast production is a side enterprise to their research work at the university. I'm hoping that our sudden enthusiasm hasn't outstripped their production capacity.

I would have thought they'd be all over Gryphon. He'd certainly move a lot of stock.


----------



## sinkas (25/6/09)

Does TWOC carry it yet, last time I was there, they had NFI about them


----------



## T.D. (25/6/09)

Jim_Levet said:


> Great to see someone giving a bit of support to these guys Gryph, well done.
> James



Indeed. I'll definitely be grabbing some when GB has them available.


----------



## Katherine (25/6/09)

sinkas said:


> Does TWOC carry it yet, last time I was there, they had NFI about them




They were there last time I was there... about two weeks ago


----------



## randyrob (25/6/09)

sinkas said:


> Does TWOC carry it yet, last time I was there, they had NFI about them



Yep, quite a range and only $9.95


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## roger mellie (25/6/09)

randyrob said:


> Yep, quite a range and only $9.95



Does that mean Gryphon will have them for $6? :huh: 

RM


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

We now have a small range of Proculture yeasts listed on the site , more will be added as they become availble, later this week I hope.Hit the link at the bottom of this post. .or HERE  . V
GB


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## Katherine (5/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> We now have a small range of Proculture yeasts listed on the site , more will be added as they become availble, later this week I hope.Hit the link at the bottom of this post. .or HERE  . V
> GB



Have you trialed them yet?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

I have not had the opportunity to use the yeast yet as they have just arrived and being that there are so many to try I have had to go on other brewers recommendations, which are all very good reviews. I will be brewing an APA, Shock Horror ,Yes its my very firsty APA ever and I'm looking forward to using the Proculture Pro-10 with Simcoe and Amarillo and possibly some Warrior.You never know I may take out the best APA/Ale at next years PRBS.
GB


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## T.D. (5/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> We now have a small range of Proculture yeasts listed on the site , more will be added as they become availble, later this week I hope.Hit the link at the bottom of this post. .or HERE  . V
> GB



Great news GB! 

That "Brewer's Mate" strain sounds like an interesting one. Has anybody tried the WLP version of this yeast (862)? Does it do a good job of both ales and lagers? Could be very interesting.


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## Katherine (5/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I have not had the opportunity to use the yeast yet as they have just arrived and being that there are so many to try I have had to go on other brewers recommendations, which are all very good reviews. I will be brewing an APA, Shock Horror ,Yes its my very firsty APA ever and I'm looking forward to using the Proculture Pro-10 with Simcoe and Amarillo and possibly some Warrior.You never know I may take out the best APA/Ale at next years PRBS.
> GB



If you dont end up liking the APA ill help you out with that. It will be no problem at all.... LOL! mmmmm GB APA...


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## Hogan (5/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I have not had the opportunity to use the yeast yet as they have just arrived and being that there are so many to try I have had to go on other brewers recommendations, which are all very good reviews. I will be brewing an APA, Shock Horror ,Yes its my very firsty APA ever and I'm looking forward to using the Proculture Pro-10 with Simcoe and Amarillo and possibly some Warrior.You never know I may take out the best APA/Ale at next years PRBS.
> GB




Hi GB - I've had a look a your site and also at Proculture. Just a question on the phials. Are they the same 50ml pet container as WLP? How many ml of actual yeast does the phial contain apart from the liquid? Any feedback on how they survive postage to the eastern states.?


Cheers, Hoges.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

Katie said:


> If you dont end up liking the APA ill help you out with that. It will be no problem at all.... LOL! mmmmm GB APA...


Isnt it just a ESB with American hops?  Simple.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

Hogan said:


> Hi GB - I've had a look a your site and also at Proculture. Just a question on the phials. Are they the same 50ml pet container as WLP? How many ml of actual yeast does the phial contain apart from the liquid? Any feedback on how they survive postage to the eastern states.?
> 
> 
> Cheers, Hoges.


Hoges First with the cell count, I will quote Proculture :"There is 1x 10^9 cells per millilitre in the yeast slurry. I worry when I see people adding less than the full amount, only as some have not shaken them up thoroughly before using them, and don't get the amount of cells that they think are using, and then results vary. As long as you shake them thoroughly, and then decant out want you want to use, and let that reach room temp before pitching everything should run well. Its just like the smack packs, they sit at room temp before pitching. The yeast activate and don't get a temperature shock."
Cheers
Colin
So there is more than adequate yeast cells for direct pitching for 19-25 litres of "normal" strength wort.The actual yeast ml by sight varies in the vial because of the differing size of yeast cells.
The Packaging is in a transition stage, the vials now are similar to White labs in that they are 50ml and the same shape but there is a gradual change to a larger more squat container, this will allow more room for gas build up with out getting a gushing affect when opening.I recommend shaking when cold to mix the yeast the put it back in the fridge to cool, release the pressure when cold, then let warm to room/wort temp then pitch.
GB


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## Duff (5/8/09)

T.D. said:


> Great news GB!
> 
> That "Brewer's Mate" strain sounds like an interesting one. Has anybody tried the WLP version of this yeast (862)? Does it do a good job of both ales and lagers? Could be very interesting.



God T.D., use the fcuking search button will you.

If T.D. had used the search function, this is what he would have found

 

:icon_offtopic: Will be down in September and December (don the robe to pick up a degree) - lets have a beer. Booked an apartment at Star City for a few days.


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## T.D. (5/8/09)

Duff said:


> God T.D., use the fcuking search button will you.
> 
> If T.D. had used the search function, this is what he would have found
> 
> ...



:lol: Point taken! Truth be told, I did try to search but typed in "WLP868" instead of 862 - might explain the lack of results.  

Looks like a promising yeast, definitely one I would like to try. Sounds like it might be better as an English Ale yeast almost when fermented at ale temps. Did you ever try it at lager temps?

And yes, a graduation beer sounds like just the ticket mate! Congrats at getting the official nod from the uni too. Its a good feeling huh! Now we will have to call you Dr Duff!


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## Hogan (5/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> The Packaging is in a transition stage, the vials now are similar to White labs in that they are 50ml and the same shape but there is a gradual change to a larger more squat container, this will allow more room for gas build up with out getting a gushing affect when opening.
> GB



Thanks GB - Will the squat containers be flat bottom? Would appreciate you posting a future pic if the newy differs considerably from WLP.


Cheers, Hoges.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

Hogan said:


> Thanks GB - Will the squat containers be flat bottom? Would appreciate you posting a future pic if the newy differs considerably from WLP.
> 
> 
> Cheers, Hoges.


Hoges The new containers are flat bottomed, bit like those small jam jars that every body gives there granny at Christmas.They are fully autoclave-able and can be reused many times which is great for us tree huggers :icon_cheers: I dont have an image right now but will see what I can do.
GB


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## Batz (5/8/09)

Well done GB, I'm keen to give you a go !

Batz


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

Batz said:


> Well done GB, I'm keen to give you a go !
> 
> Batz


I have some "special yeast" coming the end of this week but more on that later, Im off now to learn my BJCP judging, PP will be there :icon_drunk: 
GB


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## Batz (5/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> PP will be there :icon_drunk:
> GB




Not interested in your problems GB


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## kirem (5/8/09)

great strain list. If I can order them online then I will give them ago. Keen on some of your wine yeast for work. 2 strains of bayanus!

*I got a trojan horse alert when I went to the proculture links page and clicked on mash microbrewery!*


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/8/09)

kirem said:


> great strain list. If I can order them online then I will give them ago. Keen on some of your wine yeast for work. 2 strains of bayanus!
> 
> *I got a trojan horse alert when I went to the proculture links page and clicked on mash microbrewery!*


Just to avoid confusion you mean the Proculture site not Gryphon Brewing site . I have no links on my site.
GB


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## hazard (6/8/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> The Packaging is in a transition stage, the vials now are similar to White labs in that they are 50ml and the same shape but there is a gradual change to a larger more squat container, this will allow more room for gas build up with out getting a gushing affect when opening.I recommend shaking when cold to mix the yeast the put it back in the fridge to cool, release the pressure when cold, then let warm to room/wort temp then pitch.
> GB


OK, but this doesn't address the question that was asked about postage - I live in Victoria, so I too am interested to know:
- what are likely postage costs to melb. The vials themselves at $10 are good value, but if postage is a few dollars then I would rather buy Wyeast locally
- while there 1*10^9 cells in a vial when it leaves proculture, how many do you think will be viable after a trip across the nullabor? What if the postman leaves the vial in the mail box all day?
Thanks


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## altone (6/8/09)

hazard said:


> OK, but this doesn't address the question that was asked about postage - I live in Victoria, so I too am interested to know:
> - what are likely postage costs to melb. The vials themselves at $10 are good value, but if postage is a few dollars then I would rather buy Wyeast locally
> - while there 1*10^9 cells in a vial when it leaves proculture, how many do you think will be viable after a trip across the nullabor? What if the postman leaves the vial in the mail box all day?
> Thanks



I get yeast sent from interstate via mail - wrapped then packed in techni ice.
One delivery was left on my back doorstep all day in the sun. 
techni ice and yeast both still cold when I got home. 
So shipping shouldn't be a problem if you can arrange that sort of packing from 
proculture or one of their resellers.

Anyone know if there's a Proculture/Wyeast substitute list anywhere yet?

I'd be interested in trying a couple of the strains they list also, so hopefully someone will
offer a chilled mailout option soon.


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## T.D. (6/8/09)

hazard said:


> OK, but this doesn't address the question that was asked about postage - I live in Victoria, so I too am interested to know:
> - what are likely postage costs to melb. The vials themselves at $10 are good value, but if postage is a few dollars then I would rather buy Wyeast locally
> - while there 1*10^9 cells in a vial when it leaves proculture, how many do you think will be viable after a trip across the nullabor? What if the postman leaves the vial in the mail box all day?
> Thanks



If packaged with icepacks (which GB's are) there shouldn't be an issue. The postage is Express from what I gather so only 24hrs or so on the road, which the icepacks will handle easily. Some online retailers don't include icepacks which I think is crazy. As you say, its very easy for the postie to leave your package in the sun or something, which could be the end of the yeast!


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## altone (6/8/09)

> OK, but this doesn't address the question that was asked about postage - I live in Victoria, so I too am interested to know:
> - what are likely postage costs to melb. The vials themselves at $10 are good value, but if postage is a few dollars then I would rather buy Wyeast locally



Well shipping is bound to cost a few bucks, but you could always combine it with another purchase if you were ordering from a HBS.

I mail order a fair bit of stuff from Craftbrewer and even with shipping it works out cheaper than buying from my local store.


[quote post='501447' date='Aug 5 2009, 07:14 PM']I have some "special yeast" coming the end of this week but more on that later, Im off now to learn my BJCP judging, PP will be there :icon_drunk: 
GB[/quote]

hmmm "special" yeast better get me some of that!!
Was about to place an order to you for a couple of yeasts and some hops to fill up the bag, but maybe I should wait a day or 2.


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## RobB (6/8/09)

boddingtons best said:


> Anyone know if there's a Proculture/Wyeast substitute list anywhere yet?



Now _that _would be extremely handy.


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## Bribie G (6/8/09)

My BIAB baggie got posted Monday c.o.b and arrived Wednesday Morning. The tyrrany of distance no more  If this special yeast is what I think it might be I'll be ordering some for sure. Ordering early in the week is surely the best timing so stuff doesn't sit in depots over the weekend.


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## T.D. (6/8/09)

Although it doesn't seem to be listed for every strain, for some it does mention a "similar to" comparison on GB's site. Perhaps this will become standard across their range once the full set of strains come on board?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/8/09)

T.D. said:


> Although it doesn't seem to be listed for every strain, for some it does mention a "similar to" comparison on GB's site. Perhaps this will become standard across their range once the full set of strains come on board?


I sure when all the yeasts are finally gene mapped or what ever they do, then there can be a definite comparison list.Until then they will be recommendations based on each yeast characteristics.Like if a yeast is described as West Yorkshire Ale yeast you can pretty much guess where it came from and how it will behave. I think the yeast companies all get their strains from the same yeast banks/bottles etc .
GB


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## ozpowell (23/8/09)

I'd be interested to hear if anyone in the eastern states (QLD?) has ordered these yeasts yet and what condition they arrived in. From what I understand, they're packaged pre-mixed with nutrient, so I'm not convinced that the gel-packs can keep them cool enough even for the 24 hrs required to express post them from WA.

I too am keen to try out the Charlie P's Cry Havoc.


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## Bribie G (23/8/09)

I've ordered some 1469 wannabe so let's see how the cow sits in the cabbage patch  

If premixed though wouldn't that blow the tube anyway, as with the smack pack puffing up? I would have thought they were more like Whitelabs in packaging?


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## ozpowell (23/8/09)

BribieG said:


> I've ordered some 1469 wannabe so let's see how the cow sits in the cabbage patch
> 
> If premixed though wouldn't that blow the tube anyway, as with the smack pack puffing up? I would have thought they were more like Whitelabs in packaging?



Please let me know how you get on Bribie. Not sure about Whitelabs packaging - only ever used Wyeast myself.


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## Asher (24/8/09)

Malty Cultural said:


> Now _that _would be extremely handy.



I may or may not have seen a 'behind the counter list' of Yeast sources for each of the Pro-cultures at at least two of the three local stockists....


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## Bribie G (24/8/09)

ozpowell said:


> Please let me know how you get on Bribie. Not sure about Whitelabs packaging - only ever used Wyeast myself.



Neville emailed me to say that the yeasts are being posted this afternoon. My Gryphon BIAB bag arrived in around 36 hours  so not too much tyranny of distance nowadays.

I can feel a Yorkie coming on B)

Edit: speling tyranny aint tyrrany.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Neville emailed me to say that the yeasts are being posted this afternoon. My Gryphon BIAB bag arrived in around 36 hours  so not too much tyranny of distance nowadays.
> 
> I can feel a Yorkie coming on B)
> 
> Edit: speling tyranny aint tyrrany.


Just got back from the Post office.Yeast left with four gel ice cells attached.Two yeasts are good for a 500 gms post satchel as I can add the Ice cells and then wrap them up well.Some gone to Sydney as well today. I have had them to Victoria before and they arrive chilled.Looks like its all working ok at this time of the year.
GB


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## T.D. (24/8/09)

You have sent Wyeast to me before GB and it has turned up nice and cold. Those gel packs are bloody effective.


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## altone (24/8/09)

ozpowell said:


> I'd be interested to hear if anyone in the eastern states (QLD?) has ordered these yeasts yet and what condition they arrived in. From what I understand, they're packaged pre-mixed with nutrient, so I'm not convinced that the gel-packs can keep them cool enough even for the 24 hrs required to express post them from WA.
> 
> I too am keen to try out the Charlie P's Cry Havoc.




Well , not from QLD but definately eastern states.

bought mine from Gryphonbrewing and they were still very cold when they arrived. 
Have since made a brew with one of the vials purchased and all went to plan.
In fact, starter fired up much quicker than a Wyeast usually does.


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## haysie (24/8/09)

boddingtons best said:


> In fact, starter fired up much quicker than a Wyeast usually does.




How quick is quick BB? 
I thinks strain, starter size, temp, starter o/g are all within reason, relevant.
Wyeast & Whitelabs yeast have the score on the board. Proculture looks good, and I`ll be giving em a go soon. 
Lets not get too ahead of ourselves and start the "mine is bigger than yours" shite


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## Bribie G (24/8/09)

I suppose the startup time depends on how many billions of cells come out of the pack and how you prepare them for 'injection'. With Wyeast Green Packet Activator, although they state that the yeast can be directly innoculated, and also have a disclaimer on their website:

Our Product Warranty states that we guarantee the viability of the yeast in our Activator packages for 6 months from the manufacture date assuming that they have been properly shipped, stored and handled. Our superior packaging material provides 100% oxygen barrier and UV light protection making this exceptional guarantee possible. During this 6 month guaranteed shelf life, some loss of viability is to be expected. This will vary from one strain to another. Activator packages that are 4 months old or older may require additional time to swell after activation.



Checking on one of the sponsors' website I see that most of the Wyeast is extremely fresh so there should be no 'yeast morbidity' problems.


I usually do a starter with some LDME for about 24 hours and get the booger working hard before pitching. I'll do the same with the Proculture and see what happens and will report on this thread.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/8/09)

BribieG said:


> I suppose the startup time depends on how many billions of cells come out of the pack and how you prepare them for 'injection'. With Wyeast Green Packet Activator, although they state that the yeast can be directly innoculated, and also have a disclaimer on their website:
> 
> Our Product Warranty states that we guarantee the viability of the yeast in our Activator packages for 6 months from the manufacture date assuming that they have been properly shipped, stored and handled. Our superior packaging material provides 100% oxygen barrier and UV light protection making this exceptional guarantee possible. During this 6 month guaranteed shelf life, some loss of viability is to be expected. This will vary from one strain to another. Activator packages that are 4 months old or older may require additional time to swell after activation.
> 
> ...


I did a 4L starter with Pro-10, the booger took off ! I used anti foam and it still got a 4" head on it. Havent seen that before.
GB


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## T.D. (24/8/09)

All things being equal, it stands to reason that yeast cultured in locally would be fresher than that cutured overseas, and I guess that should translate to a faster start to fermentation.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/8/09)

Another point is that the yeast is raised on brewers wort in the lab, apparently this deceases the lag phase as the yeast doesn't have to adapt to a new medium.
GB


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## Ross (25/8/09)

T.D. said:


> All things being equal, it stands to reason that yeast cultured in locally would be fresher than that cutured overseas, and I guess that should translate to a faster start to fermentation.



Wyeast (& i assume whitelabs) only takes 3 to 4 days to get here freshly made from the States. Viability is more likely going to be down to storage conditions & length of time in the store.

Cheers Ross


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## haysie (25/8/09)

182 posts in, where is it all going? Dragging right out and boring.

ANOTHER retailer thread, not Proculture, not a sponsor either, all a bit onesided though.


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## Guest Lurker (25/8/09)

So, if you go back to the first post in this thread, you will see it is intended to be for people to post their experience of how this new yeast product performs. So pissing matches between retailers or fans are quite likley to be deleted, in order that the thread may retain its original function.


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## drew9242 (25/8/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> We had a small disaster with the shipping. I won't go into it here as its been resolved.
> 
> Begs the question about experience of the supplier.
> 
> ...




Yea it does make you think.

However they do have to rely on someone else. Which you cant always control.
And best thing is they did sort it out without to much drama, which is good fo business.

Looking forward to trying some of there yeast. (well actually just looking forward to using liquid yeast for the first time).


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## Bribie G (25/8/09)

Anyway hundreds of posts in I'm going to do my SuperLandlord with the new yeast which should arrive very shortly so I'll report on how it goes.


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## Bribie G (26/8/09)

2 bottles arrived just now, 36 hours from Bassendean to Bribie and they arrived cool although not icy but it's been 33 degrees and last night was the warmest August night since records began. Popped them straight in the fridge and very happy so far.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (26/8/09)

BribieG said:


> 2 bottles arrived just now, 36 hours from Bassendean to Bribie and they arrived cool although not icy but it's been 33 degrees and last night was the warmest August night since records began. Popped them straight in the fridge and very happy so far.


Thats a great result , even with all the factors going the wrong way temperature wise.It would be a good idea once they have chilled back down to slightly crack the lids to release any pressure that would have built up.I do this on a regular basis with all the yeast I store in the cool room.Thanks for the feedback.
GB


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## drew9242 (3/9/09)

Well i got some Kolsch proculture yeast the other day.

I made a big starter and bottled it according to Batz awesome post on this forum. When i was bottleing this culture i thought i would have a try, to see what it tastes like and to check if it got infected. Well it tasted awesome, i cant believe how good it tastes. I must note that this is the first liquid yeast i am trying. If it tastes that good just out of that starter, shit i cant wait to make some beer with it. 

Any way if all this works i dont think i will be using dry yeast any more, liquid all the way.

drew


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