# Prunes In The Boil



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

So I've got a crapload of prunes without their pips. Says on wiki that prunes are 38% sugaz - so I'm thinking that ~600g will replace 250-300g addition of cane sugar I have previously used in this recipe (Belgian).

Got thinking though - in the boil, will I get astringency? Pectins that won't floc out with the floccer? 

I'm not really looking to get an overpowering prune taste, so was trying to avoid adding them to the fermenter or secondary - kinda want a bit of flavour boiled off - they're really stinky.

Anyone boiled dried fruit? Dark dried fruit especially?


----------



## Malted (26/10/12)

By adding an ingredient like that, I thought you would want to embrace the ingredient?


----------



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

Malted said:


> By adding an ingredient like that, I thought you would want to embrace the ingredient?



The recipe calls for them to be only a small part of the flavour - not dominant. The whole kitchen smells like an old people's home.

Any idea whether boiling them will be okay? 

Can I treat them like pumpkin?

Here's the recipe (the sugar will be subbed with the equivalent prune sugar amount). Will be heavily spiced in secondary:

*Chimay Noel* (Belgian Dubbel)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.072 (P): 17.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol (ABV): 7.50 %
Colour (SRM): 21.6 (EBC): 42.6
Bitterness (IBU): 15.5 (Average)

80% Pilsner
8% Cane Sugar
5.71% Caramunich III
4.57% Candi Sugar, Dark
1.71% Caraaroma

1.3 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 64C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Wyeast 1214 - Belgian Abbey


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


----------



## JDW81 (26/10/12)

Nick JD said:


> So I've got a crapload of prunes without their pips. Says on wiki that prunes are 38% sugaz - so I'm thinking that ~600g will replace 250-300g addition of cane sugar I have previously used in this recipe (Belgian).
> 
> Got thinking though - in the boil, will I get astringency? Pectins that won't floc out with the floccer?
> 
> ...



I've often wondered about this myself. I've made a prune stout, with prune juice added with the wort to the fermenter but never boiled.

My main concern has always been the pectin issue. Prunes are plums, and stone fruit have a crap load of pectins in them (which is one reason you get the trots when you eat too many). I don't recon astringency would be a problem, especially if you only boiled long enough for them to fall apart and for sterilisation purposes.

How dark is the beer? A few precipitating pectins might not be such an issue if it is already a fairly viscous brew.


----------



## vykuza (26/10/12)

jyo had some good success with chopping up dates and boiling the sugars out on the stovetop (in water) and adding the liquid to his ferment. I'd go with that approach (or adding the liquid to the boil) rather than adding the fruit to the boil, if only to cut down on the gunk in the kettle.


----------



## Malted (26/10/12)

Nick JD said:


> The whole kitchen smells like an old people's home.
> Any idea whether boiling them will be okay?
> Can I treat them like pumpkin?



No idea but plenty of old folks eat stewed prunes!
I would imagine that they would have been treated with sulphur dioxide. Whether this would be enough to affect yeast I do not know (but suspect not). Boiling should drive it off? 
+1 to Nick R's suggestion.


----------



## markws (26/10/12)

Similar to Nick R, I have brewed in the last month a clone of the 21st Amendments 'Allies win the war' (receipe from Brew your own) which included 1/2 kg of chopped dates in the secondary for 5 days (50L batch size). Definately can taste the presence of the dates in the beer and it is well balanced and not too overpowering either.

My 2c.

MWS


----------



## donburke (26/10/12)

preparing for a colonoscopy nick ?


----------



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

donburke said:


> preparing for a colonoscopy nick ?



 :lol:


----------



## Eggs (26/10/12)

make your beer, keep the prunes and make aged plum puds for christmas. next weekend is christmas pud time for me.


----------



## Helles (26/10/12)

Freezing fruit will break down the pectin 

Edit: ive got 4 mangoes in the freezer for a Wit Bier for this reason


----------



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

helles said:


> Freezing fruit will break down the pectin
> 
> Edit: ive got 4 mangoes in the freezer for a Wit Bier for this reason



Aha! 

I read a little about a pectic enzyme, but that seems easier - although at 21 SRM, I'm not sure clarity will be an issue, but I do love the way the caraaroma and the candi syrup make it glow red when held up to a light.

The prunes are probably going to add another 10 SRMs if the colour of the bowl I pitted them has gone. 

Just read that overcooking jam can also break down pectin ... so if I boil the pureed prunes for ages, it might still clear.


----------



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

Eggs said:


> make your beer, keep the prunes and make aged plum puds for christmas. next weekend is christmas pud time for me.



Kinda going for plum pud beer really... 

I really loathe marzipan (hence the not-xmas cake) but a little almond escence might be the go in the last few bottles.


----------



## Helles (26/10/12)

Nick JD said:


> Aha!
> 
> I read a little about a pectic enzyme, but that seems easier - although at 21 SRM, I'm not sure clarity will be an issue, but I do love the way the caraaroma and the candi syrup make it glow red when held up to a light.
> 
> ...




Ive used pectiase before but only in a Melomel (fruit mead)

Dont think i would use it in beer 

Not sure why but doesn't seem right


----------



## Helles (26/10/12)

Nick JD said:


> but a little almond escence might be the go




Thinking about a bunch of macadamias in a mash of some sort


----------



## warra48 (26/10/12)

Don't add them unless you are aged 80+ years old.


----------



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

warra48 said:


> Don't add them unless you are aged 80+ years old.



I was watching a cooking show a while back (think it was the_ Cook and the Chef_) and they said no one ever buys "Prune Pie", but if you call it...

...Dried Plum Pie, people love the stuff. 

From here on, they shall be known as _dried plums._  

Come to think of it, even that sounds like scrotum beer.


----------



## Helles (26/10/12)

Nick JD said:


> I was watching a cooking show a while back (think it was the_ Cook and the Chef_) and they said no one ever buys "Prune Pie", but if you call it...
> 
> ...Dried Plum Pie, people love the stuff.
> 
> ...



i guess he'll be making beer with someone elses scrotum


----------



## jyo (26/10/12)

Sounds really interesting. 

I'm wondering whether chopping them finely, adding boiling water and boiling for 5 -10 minutes, then sparging off the clear liquid and caramelising like I've done with dates would be the go. Then just add it in the last ten minutes of the boil?

Not sure about the prunes, but dates (I have used up to 500gms in a 23 litres batch) seem to give off mainly some lovely caramelised esters, with a nice, earthy, background flavour, but they fade out and meld in over 6months +, which is to be expected I suppose. Tried them in a BDS, ESB and a Blonde. 

I was warned about the pectins and all the bottles of the BDS I brewed that traveled, once stirred up, did not clear out. Even after days in the fridge. All the bottles I had at home, in the fridge for a few days, had mild chill haze, but once warmed up a touch were see-through ruby red. 

edit- Had minimal haze issues with the blonde and ESB

Have a crack.


----------



## Nick JD (26/10/12)

Looks like what Chimps smear on the wooden enclosure poles and then lick off. I'm tempted to fling some just to satisfy my instincts.

Enough there to shit a brick, I reckon. This is gonna be one gooey Belgian. There's one in the middle there that actually resembles a bunghole.


----------



## Nick JD (28/10/12)

This is soo wrong and so right at the same time! 







Lotsa caramunich and caraaroma and a sprinkle of roast barleyz with the pils in the mash. Went 55C, 61C, 67C...






And EKG + Nelson Sauvin to around 20 IBUs. And a bucket load of extra dark Belgian candy syrup. My only issue now is that I have adequately replaced the cane sugar addition with the prune's fructose.


----------



## mje1980 (28/10/12)

Jesus, that top pic isn't a great advertisement for prune beer!.


----------



## Nick JD (28/10/12)

mje1980 said:


> Jesus, that top pic isn't a great advertisement for prune beer!.



 

Smells amazing though looking like a dog with the trots did it. 

Actually quite acidic - quite tart tasting. I'm going to bring it to the boil then add it 5 mins before the koppafloc.

Strange thing, is the smell of the Nelson and the prunes is almost the same.


----------



## Nick JD (28/10/12)

1.5L of 1214 just finishing up.


----------



## Nick JD (28/10/12)

That looks a little more appealing. Chocolate sauce more than blended prunes.

I'd give anyone $50 if they downed that. It'd turn you inside out. :lol:


----------



## kevo (28/10/12)

This beer could give new meaning to the terms first and second runnings...

 

Kev


----------



## jyo (1/12/12)

Any updates (upprunes doesn't have the same ring to it) on this, mate?

Is it hazy?

Can you taste the prunes?


----------



## Nick JD (1/12/12)

jyo said:


> Any updates (upprunes doesn't have the same ring to it) on this, mate?
> 
> Is it hazy?
> 
> Can you taste the prunes?



It's in the keg, yet to be carbed up. But I've tasted it a lot.

Lost about 1/3 or the batch to trub ... fermenter trub. 2/3 came off alright to secondary and the last third was just sludge. Delicious sludge, but not really beer. Would be great on toast. 

It shows a lot of the 1214 character. There's esters and a bit of phenolics (I've since spiced it with Chinese 5 Spice), but it's all pretty much drowned by the prunes. I used too much by about an order of magnitude.

If you were told it was a plum wine, you'd probably not say, "nah, it tastes more like a dubbel with some dried fruit." 

It's very dry. Had I been aiming for this, I'd call it a great success. When it's all carbed up it might be a ripper. Literally - I've been refering to it as the _Anal Leakage_ batch.


----------



## ratchie (1/12/12)

:icon_offtopic: I have put prunes in a jar full of rum and left them for a year or two for xmas very tasty,might have to start doing it again.


----------



## jyo (1/12/12)

1/3 to trub, spewing. I'm wondering if that could be avoided by preparing the prunes differently or not adding them to boil? 

I like the idea, it'll be interesting to see how it turns out once carbed, mate. Love the idea of a cleansing ale


----------

