# Beetroot in a Saison?



## Fat Bastard (4/9/13)

You can beat an egg, but you can't beat a root!

I saw an image of a beetroot saison come across appear on my facebook feed, and I thought it looked spectacular, and even though i think fruit and vegetable has no place in beer, the earthy taste may work quite well in a saison.

How much beetroot do you think I'd need to use, in what form, and at what point? I've got a bunch of Bulls Blood cultivar in my garden at the moment, so I was thinking of about 1.5 kg, grated in either the mash or late in the boil.

Which Saison yeast should I use to accentuate the earthy flavours?

Cheers!

FB


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## kevo (4/9/13)

Not sure where or why - but split the batch, multiple yeasts and report back.

Good luck


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## Toper (4/9/13)

Would it really add anything more than colour? to my tastebuds, fresh,non canned beetroot is pretty bland :unsure:


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## Fat Bastard (4/9/13)

Really? I think fresh beetroot is earthy, a little spicy and has it's own funk. Kind of like a Saison. I reckon you'd only need a tiny bit for colour, but becaue it's quite subtle, a fair bit to get some flavour.

Given that I've never brewed a saison before, I reckon I'll need to do a plain one first of course!


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## bum (4/9/13)

Yeah, toper01 is way off on the blandness thing but my feeling (based entirely on my work with the very different pumpkin) is that if you add it to the mash or boil you'll lose nearly all flavour. If flavour is the motivation then I'd be looking at secondary. Gut-feeling, pinch of salt, etc.


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## kevo (4/9/13)

Righto...brew a plain saision, split that, add bettroot.

Then...

Split each batch between each of the available saison yeasts.

Report back.


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## boonchu (5/9/13)

I have used beetroot for colouring by grating it and adding to the boil in a hop sock at 10min.
There was no decearnable taste but it was in a smoked red dipa.
2 mediun beetroot coloured 20L a deep red. Next time I would use 1 1/2.


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## pk.sax (5/9/13)

Add some to glass to taste to try out?


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## insane_rosenberg (5/9/13)

Are you sure they were not referring to sugar beet?
I know that Silly Saison uses beet sugar as it is grown local to the brewery. I've been meaning to source some beet sugar syrup for a while.


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## Mardoo (5/9/13)

Wouldn't adding it to the mash mess with mash pH? Senna like the funk you want would come best from adding in primary. That's the little mouth talking though.


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## tricache (5/9/13)

Imagine everything you add the beet too though....pink EVERYWHERE!!!


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## milestron (5/9/13)

Yeah I had the yeastie boys beetroot saison on the weekend - great beer although not sure it added much in flavour. Brilliant colour though.


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## Fat Bastard (6/9/13)

Think it was the Yeastie Boys one I saw. Looked brilliant!

So, general consensus seems to be to add to the fermenter. What's the go with sanitising a couple of kilos of root vegetable? (heh, root etc..)

10 minute covered boil in the minimum liquid to cover the grated root before adding to the FV?


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## Pickaxe (6/9/13)

Yeah, beetroot flavor really comes from texture if raw, bit of natural sugar, other subtleties. You're not confusing pickled beetroot flavors with raw beets and intended brewing outcome?


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## bum (6/9/13)

Really, you're gonna have to suck it and see then let us know. Can't see many with practical experience?

Maybe shooting Yeastie Boys an email may pay dividends?


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## Fat Bastard (6/9/13)

Nah Pickaxe, I want it to taste like the Bulls Blood beet I pulled from the garden this arvo, Earthy, spicy and a bit sweet. most of the interesting flavours come from the skin I feel, so I'd like to preserve as much of that as I can, hence a short covered boil to kill off the cat wee and rabbit dung germs without losing flavour.

Might shoot the yeasties an email and find out what they do,cheers bum!


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## boonchu (7/9/13)

The wig and pen in canberra also played with beetroot, I believe it was the main taste to the beer and very polarising with drinkers.
If you talk to them or get in touch with the Canberra Brewers club they may be able to help.


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## tazman1967 (7/9/13)

Yeasts..
Wyeast 3711 French Saison would be my pick..
Ferments well and plays nice with spices and herbs flavours.. nice silky mouthfeel.


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## Mardoo (7/9/13)

Fat Bastard said:


> Nah Pickaxe, I want it to taste like the Bulls Blood beet I pulled from the garden this arvo, Earthy, spicy and a bit sweet. most of the interesting flavours come from the skin I feel, so I'd like to preserve as much of that as I can, hence a short covered boil to kill off the cat wee and rabbit dung germs without losing flavour.
> 
> Might shoot the yeasties an email and find out what they do,cheers bum!


There ya go. A 10 min boil of the whole beets then grated with a sanitised grater (gloves, gasmask etc.) and into the fermentor with ye.


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## Tex083 (7/9/13)

Yeah the Yeastie Boys was the Golden Age of Bloodshed it was brewed for GABS in reply to last years Tea Leaf IPA both winners in my book!
I think the Yeastie Boys is a Belgium ale and not a saison - dont let this stop you I think its a great idea.
I would be greating/chopping roughly the Beats into a pot of water (2-3L) and boiling for 10/60 and adding into the fermenter - lumps and all!!
Leave it for 3 days and transfer to secondary fermenter to finish.
If you do put it in a plastic fermenter I can see it turning pink and being VERY difficult to clean.


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## Fat Bastard (15/9/13)

Well, it looks like Yeastie Boys ate not going to divulge their secrets anytime soon.

So, I have a basic Saison recipe (Bullshead Motueka Saison, with the Motueka subbed out for a more neutral Belma, which I have heaps of) a, smack pack of 3711 and access to beetroot.

I'm thinking of boiling the beets for 10 minutes, skin on, slipping the skins off, grating with a sanitised grater into a sanitised bowl, chopping the skins up and dumping the lot into the primary after it's almost done, leaving for 5 days, then transfer to secondary for cold crashing.

Anyone have any thoughts on this, or am I breaking the sound barrier here?

Cheers,

FB


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## wide eyed and legless (16/9/13)

My wife has grown a lot of mangel wurzels and swedes and they are now ready for harvesting, just as a matter of interest I had a look for mangel wurzel beer, although I am not that adventurous as to make one, the most adventurous I have got is adding liquorice chips to oatmeal stout and grapefruit into an American pale ale.
However I did find a recipe for a mangel wurzel Saison at (www.ediblecommunities.com) might give you some ideas good luck with it.


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## boonchu (16/9/13)

If your not looking for any fermentables from the beetroot, I say go for it.
Not sure how much taste you will get but it should look good.
You could hedge your bets and throw some in at the end of the boil as well


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## chefsantos (16/9/13)

i had it at gaps it wasn't to bad . i made a quince saison last summer which had a great fruitiness to it .


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## Fat Bastard (16/9/13)

wide eyed and legless said:


> My wife has grown a lot of mangel wurzels and swedes and they are now ready for harvesting, just as a matter of interest I had a look for mangel wurzel beer, although I am not that adventurous as to make one, the most adventurous I have got is adding liquorice chips to oatmeal stout and grapefruit into an American pale ale.
> However I did find a recipe for a mangel wurzel Saison at (www.ediblecommunities.com) might give you some ideas good luck with it.


Cheers, I had a quick look and couldn't find anything though,

So, how much do you think i need to use? I'm thinking of 1.5 kg net weight of beets in a 23 litre batch. How much quince did you use chefsantos?


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## wide eyed and legless (16/9/13)

I found it by entering mangel wurzel beet beer into Google.


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## chefsantos (16/9/13)

i used about 1kg of slow poached quince (poached in 1ltr water and 500g sugar)for a 23lt batch


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## fletcher (16/9/13)

sounds crazy! and awesome. be mindful though, if you drink enough of it, your piss will be bright pink. i may or may not know this from eating a whole tin of canned beetroot when i was a kid. scared the hell out of me :lol:


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## Fat Bastard (16/9/13)

Thanks WE&L. I tried to use the site's search engine and a google site search to no avail. Didn't think to do a plain old Google search!

Santos, I reckon I'll be on the money with 1.5kg then, I guess beet isn't quite as flavoursome as quince.

So I guess I'll brew up the base Saison as a plain one first to get a handle on the recipe, and harvest some undyed pink yeast, then we're away with the Root Saison!


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## Tex083 (16/9/13)

I don't want to force you into doing something you don't want to do but boiling the beats then peeling and grating sounds like a massive pain in the bum! Once you touch the beats it's not sanitised anymore. Then you have the grater and bowl, I would do all the peeling/ chopping before adding to water and adding it all to the fermenter. As long as your beats are clean of dirt you should be able to put it All the fermenter.
The cooking liquid would have heaps of colour in it and a bit of flavour, the chunky bits would add flavour and colour. Might even get a point of gravity out of it if the beets are converted in the cooking process.

Please please report back on how it turns out, nothing shits me more than searching up a topic that sounds amazing to have no ending. It's like when your having a root and...


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## wide eyed and legless (18/9/13)

Pulling up my Bolthardy beetroot today, this is what I am going to do. Boil for 15 mins, rub off the skin when cooled, slice them, place into sterilized jars, simmer some Malt vinegar, sugar to taste and pickling spices with extra whole mustard seeds.
Pour over beetroot expelling any trapped air, cap the jars and leave for two weeks.
Not as adventurous as Fat Bastard but delicious.


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## toncils (27/9/13)

Someone told me beetroot is FULL of sugars. It doesn't taste like much, so I guess all the sugars are complex (right?). Does that mean you'd need to mash it?


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## Fat Bastard (27/9/13)

Yeah, dunno. I guess if I grate it up and boil it for 10 minutes there might be some conversion. Been shying away from chucking it in the mash as I reckon the boil and primary ferment might carry off any flavour


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## sinkas (27/9/13)

I made a beet root triple once
added carefully prepared raw beetroot juice to ferment, so as not to impart cooked vegetal flavour /aroma,


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## Fat Bastard (9/10/13)

How did that turn out for you sinkas? How did you prepare the beetroot juice?

I did a refract on the water left from some boiled whole beets I did for a beetroot, rosewater and mint salad on the weekend and got 1.005 for 5 whole beets in enough water to cover them, so there's some sugars there, but how much of it is fermentable is anyone's guess.

Next brew up will be the base saison, although I'm _very _temped to split the smack pack prior and just do the beetroot first up.


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## TimT (5/12/13)

Coming to a somewhat old thread now but.... did a beetroot beer myself a couple of months ago. Basic pale ale recipe with beetroot thrown in at the start of the boil. My stupid plan was to make a purple beer; well, the beetroot did change the colour of the beer but more to a kind of red. At the end of the boil all the beetroot flavour had vanished. If I recall correctly I used two beetroots for a 4.5 litre beer?

Read a few months ago that pumpkin needs to be mashed for pumpkin beer, otherwise the starch and sugars in pumpkin can cause bottle bombs - and beetroot seems to me to be a comparable ingredient. The recommended method for the pumpkin was to bake it on high in the oven for an hour or so until it was melting and caramelised, and then add it to the mash. Perhaps similar could be done to beetroot.

However, I haven't had any problem with exploding bottles with my current beetroot beer (and I still have a bottle left), so there you go. Next time I'd definitely like to get more beetroot flavour in though.

BTW, sugar beet is a sub-variety of beetroot that was cultivated in the 18th and 19th centuries as a sweetener. I think the main sugar is sucrose - fermentable!


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## Fat Bastard (5/12/13)

What a fortuitous bump for, this weekend is the weekend I'm throwing caution to the wind and brewing this one.

I brewed a base saison a couple of weeks ago to see how the un-beetrooted saison went, and it went mostly ok, except I have now decided that Belma won't work with the beet, so it's been subbed for Czech Saaz, and I'll mash it a bit higher, 1.000 was a tad low for my tastes. I'm still not certain what I will do with the beetroot, but at this stage the most likely option is to run it throught the julienne blade on my mandoline and boil it in just enough water to cover it, then add to the fermenter when cool. This will happen when primary ferment has died down and it has a couple of points to go.

Anyway, can anyone see any issues with the recipe below?

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Les Sang des Innocents Beetroot Saison
Brewer: 
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 25.84 l
Post Boil Volume: 21.84 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 18.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 17.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 3.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 93.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
29.70 l Sydney Water (Manly Vale 25/09/13) Water 1 - 
1.90 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 - 
1.10 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 - 
1.89 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 48.7 % 
1.26 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 5 32.5 % 
0.63 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 Grain 6 16.2 % 
0.10 kg Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM) Grain 7 2.6 % 
33.00 g Saaz [3.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 16.5 IBUs 
1.80 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 60.0 mins Water Agent 9 - 
1.00 g Calcium Chloride (Boil 60.0 mins) Water Agent 10 - 
33.00 g Saaz [3.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 4.4 IBUs 
7.61 g Brewbrite (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 12 - 
4.00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 13 - 
33.00 g Saaz [3.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15.0 mi Hop 14 3.3 IBUs 
0.9 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 Yeast 15 - 
1.50 kg Beetroot (Secondary 4.0 days) Other 16 - 


Mash Schedule: Piers' Mash Schedule 1
Total Grain Weight: 3.88 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Protein Rest Add 16.39 l of water at 55.6 C 52.0 C 10 min 
Mash Step Heat to 62.0 C over 10 min 62.0 C 15 min 
Mash Step Heat to 66.0 C over 2 min 66.0 C 45 min 
GP Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 8 min 72.0 C 10 min 
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 6 min 78.0 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 14.71 l water at 78.0 C
Notes:
------
Beetroot added to fermenter after primary has died down. Chop finely and boil for 10 minutes with enough water to cover.

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers,

FB


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## surly (6/12/13)

watching with interest. I would love to see what the finished product looks like.
Good luck FB


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## nu_brew (6/12/13)

Love a saison. I think the Beetroot will go amazingly if you can get some earthy flavours.


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## sinkas (9/12/13)

cam out quite well,
I preped the bett jiouce,
byshredding and squeexing the shredded material,
I used about 2 kilo I think, ,
it was actually a bit too dark for about 18 L of all pils and candysyrup triple


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## sinkas (9/12/13)

I think the more earthy flavours are achive by cooking,
the raw juice was bright and sweet


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## Fat Bastard (11/12/13)

Fermenter sample after adding 1.5kg of beetroot & approx 750ml water (boiled from cold for 10 min) to 22 litres of saison tonight.

Looks nuclear. A sample of the water used to boil the beets measured 1.030 sg,but Crom only knows how much of that is fermentable. The liquor tasted incredibly sweet, but had a strong beetroot taste. When I re-measured the beer, it was actually lower than the original sample of 0.999 (calculated)sg. The finished beer pre 'rooting actually finished lower than I wanted despite me mashing higher than the test saison.

It certainly tastes like a saison mixed with beetroot juice. You can definately taste the 'root in it, but who knows what it will be like by the time the sugars have fermented. Got it sitting at 28 tonight and will ramp to 30 tomorrow. If it has finished by Sunday, I'll commence to cold crash, and keg the following Sunday after 3 or 4 days below 4c. It'll end up being stored in the keg a few weeks before drinking.

A point. 1.5kg of julienned beetroot is a shitload. Hope it doesn't get much of a krausen!


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## boonchu (12/12/13)

Beetroots are what beet sugar / belgium candy sugar comes from.

They are one of the original sugar sources before sugar cane.


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## stakka82 (12/12/13)

Yeah I reckon the 'root will totally ferment out.


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## bum (12/12/13)

boonchu said:


> Beetroots are what beet sugar / belgium candy sugar comes from.


Nope. Sugar beets.






I agree that it will probably be highly fermentable though. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

[EDIT: original picture was way too big]


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## nu_brew (12/12/13)

Holy shit FB that looks incredible!


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## TimT (12/12/13)

Yeah sugar beets are a type of beetroot that have been bred for sweetness (sucrose).


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## Not For Horses (12/12/13)

Beetroot is 6.76% total sugars according to the USDA.
So you've added 100g of sugar to your 22L.


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## Fat Bastard (13/12/13)

Cheers NFH. Looking at it now, there's no evidence of a krausen. Judging by the rate it chewed through the primary (1.056 to 0.999 in 3 days) 100 odd g wouldn't have touched the sides. Or shown on the refract.

Haven't taken a sample tonight, but I'm hoping it'll taste ready to crash by Sunday. The julliened root (heh... etc.) has a pretty large surface area and hopefully has had all the sugaz extracted by then. Once the yeast has dropped out it should be a less lurid shade too!


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## nu_brew (13/12/13)

Fat Bastard said:


> Once the yeast has dropped out it should be a less lurid shade too!


Damn shame!


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## Not For Horses (13/12/13)

Can't wait to see it when it's finished.
Should be real purdy.


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## Fat Bastard (16/12/13)

Hurrr... Purdy!






She's down to an incredible 0.995 now. Possibly super attenuation, possibly refractometer user error when taking the O.G. Don't think she'll go lower, so cold crashing now.
Beetroot aroma is amazing, it overpowers anything from the yeast or late Saaz. Hope this will fade a little. Beetroot taste is there, but not overpowering or anything. Should look _incredible_ when it's gassed up_._


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## Bizier (17/12/13)

The fabulous fuschia flame-thrower!

That is colour is nuts!


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## winkle (20/12/13)

Does it stain teeth? It'd be the natural enemy of a white shirt.


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## Fat Bastard (29/12/13)

Bit darker than I hoped for, but the beetroot aroma and flavour have backed off a bit. I think half the amount of beetroot would be adequate for next time.

_Outre_.

_Totally._


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## surly (29/12/13)

That's pretty 

Enjoying it?


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## Fat Bastard (29/12/13)

The beetroot is a bit cloying and tends to mask the saison flavour a bit, but yeah, I'm enjoying it! It's only very new and should improve over the next few weeks.


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## surly (29/12/13)

Sounds like a perfect situation FB, you have made an enjoyable and interesting beer. But, there is obvious room for improvement so you get to go back and tinker some more.
:beer:


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## Fat Bastard (3/1/14)

Clearing up a little now:




I'm starting to revise my opinions about the amount of beetroot too. The aroma & flavour seems to be fading quite rapidly and the beer tastes alltogether more "complete". May need to revise the base saison recipe a little as this one is very dry and a little bland. It's a good opportunity to tinker with that as I need to culture up some more 3711, as I did not even try to save the stuff from this batch.

When I first tried the beer, I was concerned that the beetroot was a little too cloyingly earthy, but it's fine now. I'm 3 glasses into an experiment to see if it turns my wee red. In case you were wondering, the answer is "not yet."

Anyway, a facebook mate sent me this picture of a beer (possibly a belgian or a saison) with spinach extract and green tea.






I have no spinach, but I've got masses of Cavolo Nero, and my rocket has gone completely feral. Hmm....


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