# Grain Mills



## beer slayer (13/4/05)

Hi All

Im new to the site and have enjoyed all the good info that you guys have. I need some advice on a good grain mill to get. Also wanted the best place to purchase one. Either in Aus or OS. Ive got a mate travelling to the US so he might be able to get one there!  
Any help appreciated.


Cheers
beer slayer :beer:


----------



## Snow (13/4/05)

Do a search, mate. Plenty of info on the site already.

- Snow


----------



## nonicman (13/4/05)

Hi beer slayer,
If you do a search of the forum with these names of mills, you'll find a wealth of tips and experiences with the various mills,

Marga (available in Australia)
Barleycrusher
Crank and Stein or Crankandstein
Valley Mill
or Sosman's (knowledgable forum member) homemade Jarra mill

I have a 2D Crank and Stein.

Edit: Dicko is spot on, I love my Crank and Stein, 5-7 minutes to crush 5 - 5.5kgs of grain by hand, one pass perfect crush IMHO. My mill took 5 days for delivery and Fred is excellent to deal with. 

Cheers,

Jason


----------



## dicko (13/4/05)

BS,

Try here,

http://www.crankandstein.com/productsnew.htm

He is a good bloke to deal with - very good service

Cheers


----------



## Jazman (13/4/05)

the barley crusher and they are good to deal with u can get just the body to make a bottom plate and hoper your self and it be easier for your mate to brink back from usa like i did and it aint too big and i had it delieveid to the last port of call and all was well


----------



## Andrew (13/4/05)

Ditto, I'm with Dicko and Nonicman. There are some good mills to be had, but I'm glad I selected the Crankandstein.
Cheers


----------



## Bigfella (18/4/05)

Hey I am about to order a mill I was going to get a Marga but from what I have read I will be better of getting a crankandstein. My dilemma is which one. CGM-2D,,, CGM-2A,,,, CGM-2S,

I don't know if the bigger roller will make that much difference has any one got an opinion out there. Not that there are many opinions to be had @ AHB


----------



## Borret (18/4/05)

Hey Nonicman, you failed to mention some of the other homemade mills on the site. So I couldn't miss the opportunity - The Borret Mill!
Borret's mill
Also some other good examples by Tony, Pumpy and Stagger that I have noted on here too. I'm sure there's a few others I have missed. I think I say on behalf of all that we are proud of our efforts and the satisfaction of milling with your own work is worth it if you are handy enough.

Borret


----------



## roach (18/4/05)

Bigfella said:


> ... I will be better of getting a crankandstein. My dilemma is which one. CGM-2D,,, CGM-2A,,,, CGM-2S,
> 
> [post="55139"][/post]​


Hey Bigfella,
I went for the cheapest option, the CGM-2s and it works fine. Would have been nice to have one that adjusts more easily but having said that I haven;t needed to adjust it. I got the 2s because it was the most i could afford at the time)ie the cheapest). 

IMHO go for the best one that you can afford. The mill will last you a lifetime of brewing. 

Also if you intend motorising it one day you might want to consider a 1/2 inch shaft. Although I didn;t bother and operate the 2s with a variable speed drill at the lowest speed.

Cheers
Roach


----------



## sosman (18/4/05)

Bigfella said:


> I don't know if the bigger roller will make that much difference has any one got an opinion out there. Not that there are many opinions to be had @ AHB
> [post="55139"][/post]​


By all accounts, bigger is better - it is to do with the way grain is pulled through apparently. From my own experience @ 63mm in diameter it still requires drive to the second roller. I have heard of people going with 6 inch rollers (short though).


----------



## Jazman (18/4/05)

Two words BARLEY CRUSHER


----------



## nonicman (18/4/05)

> Hey Nonicman, you failed to mention some of the other homemade mills on the site. So I couldn't miss the opportunity - The Borret Mill!
> Borret's mill



Stagger's mill
Tony's mill
Pumpy's mill

I'm sure there are more.


----------



## dicko (18/4/05)

Bigfella,
If you can afford the bit extra go for the CGM 3D with the 1/2" drive shaft, from Crankandstein.
It comes with plans to build the hopper written in plain english and the bloke is fair dinkum to deal with. Mine was here in about 10 days from ordering, and that was at xmas time.
The 1/2" drive shaft makes it very easy to motorise if you wish and if not you can still drive it with a drill of the correct size.

There is very little "tearing" of the grain husks with a three roller mill as the first set just crack the grain and the second set of rollers perform the final crush.
The roller gap is easily adjustable with a detent controlled knob on each end of the lower roller with increments of about .004 thousands of an inch.
You could not get any better for the money! (unless of course you made one)

Generally the Crankandstein range of mills seems good value for money at the moment.

No Affiliation blah! blah!









Cheers


----------



## jayse (19/4/05)

Can't help but put in a word for marga.  
Honestly I get as good a crush with it in pretty much the same time as most mills and its a cheap option. I have cracked at a rough estimate around just over half a tonne with it and never even thought of upgrading simply because it does the job very well.
It might not look like some of the fantastic mills built buy some brewers but its my beast.

Jayse


----------



## dicko (19/4/05)

Hi Jayse,
Yes I fully agree, the Marga for the price is probably the best option.

When it was first realised that Margas could be used for barley crushing for beer the cost of those units was very cheap (around $50.00)
Now, unfortunately they are around $100.00 and for that money the two roller Crankandstein becomes an option that has to be considered.

My Marga has served me well with no problems, but when your family asks you what piece of brewing equipment you want for xmas and they are all putting in for it then the temptation of the CGM 3D was hard to pass up.

The Marga is difficult to adapt a motor for driving it, due to the lack of an input shaft extending from the primary roller. Although not impossible to do, the easier option is to drive it with a drill.

I had the geared motor just sitting under the bench, waiting for a grain mill with an extended input shaft to come my way, and with all things taken into consideration in my situation, then I felt that the Crankandstein was the way to go.

The above statements in no way are to the suggest that any one mill is better than another as
"beauty is in the eye of the mill owner" :lol: 

Cheers


----------



## sosman (19/4/05)

jayse said:


> Can't help but put in a word for marga.
> Honestly I get as good a crush with it in pretty much the same time as most mills and its a cheap option. I have cracked at a rough estimate around just over half a tonne with it [post="55201"][/post]​


You have only had it a couple of months then Jayse?


----------



## Asher (19/4/05)

I bought an ESB Made model (Its similar to a phill mill 1) I've had it for a few years now and it works a treat...
The brass bushes are getting a bit shagged now. but it still chews through a 10kg grain bill in minutes....




I'll be investing in a crankandstein when this one dies.... (unless I can find replacement bushes...then it will never die!!)

Asher for now


----------



## davidk (19/4/05)

HI, we just bought two Valley Mills from Canada for our shops and they seem to be pretty effective. They can send them out stripped down to just the rollers and casing, and a large hopper that packs pretty flat. 2 of them cost us about $576, including freight. Service from Valley Mills was pretty good and all was done by email. The store managers seem pretty happy with them. We had previously bought a Marga Mill which is in one store, but I thought it was a little small for commercial use. No doubt perfectly good for home use. I had similar problems choosing a mill (including useing this forum) and finally went for the one with a pre-built, large hopper to hold the amount of grain we need to do for an order. Cheers


----------



## Borret (19/4/05)

Keep the photo's coming guys. I love seeing photo's of people setups. Give's you so much of a better idea of how to improve your own. Much easier to interpret than a lengthy description if you've got the means. And great for getting feedback on questions you forgot to ask or didn't think of but someone else noticed. 
Everyday a new idea of a gadget to build or improve. My list is growing. I'm lovin this hobby.

Borret


----------



## Stagger (19/4/05)

This is one i made myself it has 2 x S/S rolers both are driven.

Stagger


----------



## Boots (19/4/05)

I got a marga when they were still cheap, but ... if I was buying now, I reckon the Crankandstein would by my choice. I'm not that handy with / don't have access to many tools - as you can probably see from my mill 

I'm still fine tuning my marga crush - so it would have been nice to buy one where you just put it together and throw some grain at it.


----------



## Borret (19/4/05)

How much grunt does that motor have??!!
Do you get a brownout on all three phases when you crank it up?

Very tidy job indeed. Not going to wear out in a hurry.

Borret


----------



## Stagger (19/4/05)

Hi Borret love the engineered drill stand 

Stagger


----------



## Borret (19/4/05)

Not mine?


----------



## Bigfella (19/4/05)

Well I have bitten the bullet and have ordered a CrankandStein CGM-2A with a 1/2" drive. (Well I have almost ordered it I'm just waiting for frank to get back to me again.) Dose any one know if you can still order via the paypal link or do you have to order it from Frank via email. Paypal does not work out the freight .


----------



## nonicman (19/4/05)

Frank emailed the freight, then I did the paypal transaction, when I purchased mine.


----------



## Bigfella (19/4/05)

How did you add the freight to the paypal transaction.


----------



## Dunkel_Boy (19/4/05)

Why do people get the 1/2" drive?
I would have thought the standard 3/8" drive is easier to fit into a drill chuck (and US20 cheaper), and the extra torque of the 1/2" would be minimal...
Please explain.


----------



## Borret (19/4/05)

Easier to fit a pulley to for motorising would be my guess. Mine has 12mm shaft necked down to 3/8 over the last 20mm for that reason.


----------



## Bigfella (19/4/05)

I figure the added weight and size of a pulley when motorizing it. it can't do any harm to have a heavier shaft. What is $20 us when the other option is having to get it repaired if it bends. I have no idea what that would cost.


----------



## Dunkel_Boy (19/4/05)

Hmmm, that's fair.
Another thing... a lot of people seem to run their drills slowly, when I think the faster the better. More speed = more inertia + more cooling. Perhaps somebody will argue that a super-fast roller speed will affect the crush, but I don't think so.


----------



## Gough (19/4/05)

In my experience with the humble but very effective Marga  the faster the drill speed the less consistent the crush, and the slower the overall flow through. A slower drill speed on the right gap setting = a very quick and very consistent crush.

Like I said, just my experience...

Shawn.


----------



## sosman (19/4/05)

You are all pussies. A *real* mill doesn't need a motor.

PS pete's bargain centre had some interesting stuff - thanks for the tipoff bigfella.


----------



## Dunkel_Boy (20/4/05)

sosman said:


> You are all pussies. A *real* mill doesn't need a motor.
> 
> PS pete's bargain centre had some interesting stuff - thanks for the tipoff bigfella.
> [post="55352"][/post]​



That's right, I forgot yours was pedal-powered...


----------



## nonicman (20/4/05)

Bigfella,

The Paypal shopping cart on the Crand and Stein site doesn't work for international customers as it doesn't factor in the shipping. When Fred sent through the quote for shipping: 



> Postage for the 2D with handle will run $50 via USPS Global Priority mail
> with insurance. Delivery averages 3-5 days after shipment. We can ship as
> early as next week Thursday. Please let me know if you have any additional
> questions.



I added it to the price of my order and paid through Paypal using Fred's email address as the account to pay. The initual order was sent to Fred via email, rather than using the shopping cart. 

Cheers,

Jason

P.S my mill is hand cranked, why use a wheelchair when you can still walk


----------



## roach (20/4/05)

nonicman said:


> Bigfella,
> 
> Fred will send the mill via surface($27 for the 2s) on request if you want to save a few bucks. It took 2 weeks to arrive. Its luck of the draw with surface mail tho- anywhere betweeb 2 weeks or 2 months.
> 
> ...


----------



## Trough Lolly (20/4/05)

sosman said:


> You are all pussies. A *real* mill doesn't need a motor.



Another vote for the Marga! 
I always hand crank h34r: the grains - I feel like I get better speed control when the flow of grains slows down or speeds up as they fall in between the top two rollers...I must admit though, that I need a bigger hopper - the one supplied with the mill is crap!
I've had a Marga for a couple of years and my mash efficiency is always *above 80%* and I batch sparge! B) I left the settings exactly as they were when Grumpy's delivered it. 

Cheers,
TL


----------



## dreamboat (20/4/05)

Is anybody else in Brisbane interested in getting anything from Crankandstein????

I am seriously looking at a mill, and there may be a chance to save on the postage if there is anybody else keen.



dreamboat


----------



## Green Iguana (20/4/05)

Dreamboat,

I have sent an email to crankenstein today regarding ordering a CGM-2S...
PM me if you are keen.......


Cheers


----------



## voota (20/4/05)

I'm keen but I live in Melbourne so I guess its not worth it. Maybe we could get a bulk order though...


----------



## sosman (20/4/05)

voota said:


> I'm keen but I live in Melbourne so I guess its not worth it. Maybe we could get a bulk order though...
> [post="55468"][/post]​


Careful about bunging too many on one order. Some guys at our club put in a bulk order and customs have deemed it "commercial quantity" which requires a customs agent, etc, etc.


----------



## Bigfella (20/4/05)

That good that is they way I have ordered it. I'm just waiting for conformation now.
Frank did tell me he would be out of town for a few days..

I'm a bit keen now


----------



## Andrew (20/4/05)

Dicko,
As a fellow crankandstein 3D owner I can't help but keep returning to page 1 of this thread to perve on your mill....
That is a blody work of art!

Paint it green, to match the colour of envy.
Cheers


----------



## Andrew (20/4/05)

Something else just crossed my mind. It may be hijacking this thread, but has or does anyone here spray their grains with hot water before crushing to soften them up and yeild a more intact husk?

Cheers.


----------



## dicko (21/4/05)

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the compliment, I am very proud of my 3D mill.

In answer to your second comment re wetting the grains, there is a fellow on the Grumpys forum that wets his grains prior to cracking.
I thought he was joking at first but I tried it and it did seem to cause the husk to stay in tack.
I tried it when I was using my Marga mill and that mill did have a tendency to tear husks if you turned it too fast ie; with a drill.
The Marga has got S/Steel rollers so there is no concern with rust but I would be careful using that method on any mill that has mild steel rollers.
I feel that you would need to run some dry grain through the mill after the wet stuff to dry the rollers.
Personally I recon that it was just another unnessesary process with the equipment that I have.
The Crankandstein 3D is very gentle on the grains and its use negates the need to do anything but just do the crush.

Cheers


----------



## Andrew (21/4/05)

No worries Dicko. It's just something I too had read elsewhere and wondered what folks here thought. Let's face it - almost anything that could be done to a homebrew has been done by someone here.

AHB the ultimate HB encyclopaedia.

Cheers


----------



## TidalPete (9/5/05)

> roach said:
> 
> 
> > Fred will send the mill via surface($27 for the 2s) on request if you want to save a few bucks.
> > Roach


Is that US or Australian dollars Roach?


----------



## roach (9/5/05)

Tidalpete said:


> > roach said:
> >
> >
> > > Fred will send the mill via surface($27 for the 2s) on request if you want to save a few bucks.
> ...


It was USD. So the 2s cost me $96US all up to my door. Just email Fred and he will respond pretty quickly with all the info and costings.


----------



## TidalPete (9/5/05)

[/quote]
It was USD. So the 2s cost me $96US all up to my door. Just email Fred and he will respond pretty quickly with all the info and costings.
[post="58147"][/post]​[/quote]

Thanks Roach.


----------



## Bigfella (10/5/05)

I'm very excited my Crankandstein has just arrived at my house, The good wife has just rung me to let me know. I'm busting to finish work and get home.
I have 3 bags of grain sitting waiting to be crushed. Now the fun part, to make a hopper.

Excited !!!!!!!!


----------



## warrenlw63 (10/5/05)

Toying with the idea of getting one myself Bigfella.

If you don't mind me asking. What was the complete cost shipped?

Enjoy your new toy B) 

Warren -


----------



## Bigfella (10/5/05)

Here was the cost USD.

Qty: Desc. Price Ext.
1 CGM-2A $99.00 $99.00
1 CGM-1/2DRV $20.00 $20.00

Subtotal: $119.00
Shipping: $51

TOTAL: $170.00


----------



## warrenlw63 (10/5/05)

Thanks Bigfella  

So about $220 Oz on today's scale. Not bad for a pretty solid looking mill.

Warren -


----------



## Bigfella (11/5/05)

And as every one on AHB has said Top company to deal with.


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/5/05)

Sounds like what I'll be going with later in the year. :super: 

Still I think it's a bit of a pity that nobody local is manufacturing something similar. (Hint, hint)  

Even if it was to save the price of overseas postage.

Warren -


----------



## Tony (12/5/05)

That was me who wets the grains.

I add about 80 to 100 mls of water (a small baby food jar full) to the grain in a pot and stir it in till its evenly damp. i put the lid on the pot and let it atand for 15 min.

I then run it through my motorised mill and it will crack 5 to 6 kg in under a minute and the husks are completly whole. It looks like you havnt even cracked it till you run your hands through it.

I get 75 to 80% efficiency and the beer is smoother than when the husks get busted up.

It also sparges quicker.

I used a margs mill for a while and it did a good job but the 3rd roller runs at a faster speed than the top 2 and tends to tear the husks.

I built my mill with 2"dia 316 stainless rollers 8" long and it instantly improved the beer i produced.

I an building some of these mils at the moment to sell to anyone who wants a big roller mill.

I have gone into a lot of detail on the "borretts mill" post but will explain again.

I can build it to suit the individual.

I can make it to take a handle for hand cranking (hard work with a big mill) or to accept a 3/8 of 1/2 drillo chuck on order.

they are fully adjustable. I use a basic system that has a floating free whealing roller that uses the grain to push it up against a fixad adustment bar to set the gap. Its easy to set (no pressing out bushes, just turn a screw) and cant come loose and "slip" out of adjustment whike cracking.

The timber gives you a great base to add hoppers and bases with ease. It helps if there is a bit of meat to screw into.

Here is a pic of the base mill i can make. I Will make tham like this for $250 or $200 for a set of rollers with bearings and you can do the rest.

If your interested please contact me. I can't guarantee overnight delivery but they will get made.

I have recenty added a 0.37kw single phase motor to the mill and like i said, it cracks 5 t o6 kg of grain in under a minute.
I got the motor second hand for nothing and the pullys cost me $50 from a bearing distributor.

Easy!!!

cheers.


----------



## dicko (12/5/05)

Good on Ya Tony,
Its good to see someone start to produce an Aussie mill.
Best of luck.


----------



## sintax69 (14/5/05)

BigFella How long did the package take to arrive ??
mines been 4 weeks waiting waiting 
sintax


----------



## Bigfella (14/5/05)

It took about three weeks.
Give fred an email he will be more than helpful 

Bigfella


----------



## sintax69 (14/5/05)

I think I will email him the end of the week he did say 2 to 6 weeks I just want it now


sintax


----------



## nonicman (14/5/05)

mine came in 5 days, but I really "wanted it now"


----------



## Bigfella (14/5/05)

Just email him tonight he is so easy to deal with and he will tell you how far down the line you are


----------



## sluggerdog (18/5/05)

I have been tossing up between the CGM-2A and the CGM-2S. My question is do I need to get the adjustable mill or will the normal one be fine?

How often would you need to adjust the gap? I thought that once you have it set, then you leave it there for good?

CGM-2S - http://www.crankandstein.com/cgm2s.htm

CGM-2A - http://www.crankandstein.com/cgm2a.htm


----------



## roach (18/5/05)

sluggerdog said:


> I have been tossing up between the CGM-2A and the CGM-2S. My question is do I need to get the adjustable mill or will the normal one be fine?
> [post="59454"][/post]​


Slugger,
I have the 2s and have never adjusted it and more than happy with the results. If you are anal about adjusting the mill to suit different grains, as some are, then adjusting the 2s everytime would be a PITA. 

So if I had my time over again I would have gone the 2a. With the 2a the rollers are also an inch longer cf with 2s( 5" vs 4" ). As we all know every inch counts :blink: With rollers size does matter. 

It gets down to what you can afford. If you can strecth to a 2a I would say go for it, as it gives you ultimate flexibility with adjusting(and don't forget the extra inch!). But the 2s is a b**dy good mill for the price and will last me for a lifetime of brewing. But then again if you want to keep up with the Dickos/Andrews of the AHB world then upgrade to the 3 roller job B) 

Cheers
Roach


----------



## sluggerdog (18/5/05)

Thanks Roach, I'll get the 2s then, I won't be changing the size. Easy AS!


----------



## Bigfella (18/5/05)

I have been a bit slack with making my hopper for the 2A mill I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some recomendations for making the hopper, Waht works and is easy.
Thanks 
Bigfella


----------



## roach (18/5/05)

Bigfella said:


> I have been a bit slack with making my hopper for the 2A mill I was wondering if any of you guys can give me some recomendations for making the hopper, Waht works and is easy.
> Thanks
> Bigfella
> [post="59479"][/post]​


Bigfella,
See the attached pic. Just a bit of scrap melamine I had lying around, and and old water bottle with the base cut out and inverted. 10 minutes work. 

Cheers
Roach


----------



## Bigfella (18/5/05)

Looks nice and easy all I need know is to get hold of an old bottle.


----------



## roach (18/5/05)

Bigfella said:


> Looks nice and easy all I need know is to get hold of an old bottle.
> [post="59502"][/post]​


you do seem em at garage sales. but as a desk jockey I see plenty lying around near the office water cooler :chug:


----------



## nonicman (18/5/05)

Bigfella, I mounted a galvanised plant pot (from a Crazy Prices style of store), drilled a gap and pushed the bottom down towards the mill. It works well. 

It's now mounted on a crate and is a joy to use . Should get the idea from this dodgy picture.

Sluggerdog, I have an adjustable 2D, and have not adjusted it much untill lately, it's a nice to have.


----------



## TidalPete (30/5/05)

Had a good look at a Valley Mill the other day & was surprised to find that the entry slot from the hopper to the rollers was only about 50mm long. I was expecting to find that the slot went all the way across the rollers as I have seen on other mills. Surely a slot all the way across the rollers would cut down on cranking time? :blink: The Valley Mill gives a good crush though. Any comments?


----------



## sintax69 (3/6/05)

Well I just got my cranknstein mill today I took nearly 9 weeks to get here via surface mail .
I would like to share part of a email I got from Fred which shows you what type of person this guy is .After 7 weeks wait I sent him a email just to give him a heads up on the situation (US post quoted 6 weeks )



> I wouldn't really worry yet. Really, don't worry at all...No matter what the post office does, I'll make sure you get a mill. There could be a delay, but we'll make sure you get your mill. I think that we need to give the USPS at least another week, and possibly two, and then I'll check on the status with them. Essentially, they just get it to Australia, and then they turn it over to your local post office. We have insurance, so if It doesn't arrive, I'll take it up with them, and send another mill. I know its a pain to wait, but we must give them some time, and see what happens. Please let me know if you see it or not before 6/10. If you don't see it before then, I'll send another mill via airmail.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...




Now not only was he willing to send another mill out but he was going to send it out to me via Airmail not surface this to me was a amazing gesture so I cant recommend enough dealing with fred he is running truely professional operation and the mill looks great so please if your looking for a mill please for your own peace of mind buy a crankandstein


----------



## deadly (3/6/05)

who said customer service was dead


----------



## ODDBALL (3/6/05)

sintax69 said:


> Well I just got my cranknstein mill today I took nearly 9 weeks to get here via surface mail .
> I would like to share part of a email I got from Fred which shows you what type of person this guy is .After 7 weeks wait I sent him a email just to give him a heads up on the situation (US post quoted 6 weeks )
> 
> 
> ...


This has helped make my mind up (If it was not already) I am going to buy a Crankandstein mill.
Just one question, how much was the postage via surface and how much more would airmail of been? 7 Weeks seems too long to wait. :blink:


----------



## sluggerdog (3/6/05)

yep I emailed frank a few weeks ago, VERY impressed with the service. Made my mind VERY clear straight away what to do and what to buy (crankandstien - CGM-2A - $99)

He even offered some suggestions on how to save money (i.e. he sends instructions how to build hopper and use surface mail etc)

Now I just gotta get the dough!


----------



## sintax69 (3/6/05)

For me he quoted $26 surface and $46 air 3-5 day delivery


----------



## pint of lager (3/6/05)

Surface from the US takes a long time. You pay your money, and start watching the letterbox. Then start getting edgy and anxious.

The suppliers are told it takes 4-6 weeks which is what they quote to us. Following the cheap kegs thread, anything up to 12 weeks is normal.

Australia Post will not take any action before three months has elapsed from when the parcel is shipped.

I have a Barley crusher mill here that I am very happy with. It took 9 weeks via surface to arrive. If I had plenty of money floating around, I would buy the tripple roller optioned crankandstein.


----------



## Darren (3/6/05)

Yep, I would go the triple roller too. Certainly would save on milling the grain twice to crack all the grain.
I have had a Valleymill for 6 years and I love it. If I were to buy again I would go for the triple rollers


----------



## roach (3/6/05)

pint of lager said:


> Surface from the US takes a long time. You pay your money, and start watching the letterbox. Then start getting edgy and anxious.
> 
> The suppliers are told it takes 4-6 weeks which is what they quote to us. Following the cheap kegs thread, anything up to 12 weeks is normal.
> 
> ...


with surface mail it is really luck of the draw. my crankandstein 2s arrived in 2 weeks via surface


----------



## nonicman (3/6/05)

I went the air mail option, 5 days for delivery. You only live once. I have a two roller and have not needed to run the grain through more than once, with the grain perfectly crushed IMHO and averaging 80% efficiency.


----------



## Darren (3/6/05)

The advantage of a three roller mill is that the gap can be wider as the malt passes through another set of roller that ensures that it is broken.
Nonicman, next time you crush some grain and have a good look how many of the grains are cracked but the husk is not seperated.. Also look carefully to see how many are not really cracked at all. With two roller mills I estimate 1% of grain is left untouched.


----------



## nonicman (3/6/05)

Will have a good look this weekend for those one percenters.
I've been slightly moistening the grain just prior to crush (roughly half a cup of water to the grain bill mixed thoughtly by hand) and the settings of the mill will rip it to buggery if dry. I do not doubt the efficency/better crush of a three roller (a three roller just makes sence, but wouldn't fit in the budget). 
When I was looking for a mill I often read of people having to re-mill the grain and with a hand cranked mill that scared me. In my experience this is not the case if a little care is taken. However I mill slowly (by hand) and swear by the moistening method as the grain husks are not ripped apart on the same gap that would shread the grain. I have not detected any uncrushed grains since settling into the my current mill gap and the above moistening routine. I can see this weekend I'll fishing through the crushed grain looking for those 1 percenters 

Edit: Better yet, I'll take some pics this weekend and post for feedback. I wouldn't be supprised if my idea of a good crush is not really a good crush.


----------



## Darren (3/6/05)

Nonicman,
My mill is motorised and probably running a little too fast (320rpm).
Those 1% probably contribute to final "haziness" of the beers.
Unconverted starch can be a bugger.
With a two roller it is always going to be a trade-off between ripped hulls/flour and uncracked grains.
Out of curiosity, How much more is the three roller mill?


----------



## nonicman (3/6/05)

Only $50 US between the 2D (what I have) and the 3D. I was luckly to get a 2D past the Minister for Finance, the extra $50 what have sunk the deal. Haven't had any clarity issues (except for the no Whirlfloc experiments but that is another story).


----------



## Darren (3/6/05)

Nonicman,
I do understand. Nothing like gaining another portfolio such as the minister for war and finance


----------



## TidalPete (4/6/05)

sluggerdog said:


> yep I emailed frank a few weeks ago, VERY impressed with the service. Made my mind VERY clear straight away what to do and what to buy (crankandstien - CGM-2A - $99)
> 
> He even offered some suggestions on how to save money (i.e. he sends instructions how to build hopper and use surface mail etc)
> 
> Now I just gotta get the dough!



Slugger,
I have whittled my Crankstein selection down to the CGM-3 & a 1/2" shaft. I am tired of waiting for my oldest son to go over to the USA to bring it back. I have heard that Crankenstein are able to ship three mills by surface mail for the same rate as one.
If this is correct (we'd have to find out) & we could find another buyer to come in with us, would you be interested? :blink: :blink:

Edit --- maybe if the three of us could go for the air mail option?


----------



## sosman (4/6/05)

nonicman said:


> Better yet, I'll take some pics this weekend and post for feedback. I wouldn't be supprised if my idea of a good crush is not really a good crush.
> [post="62208"][/post]​


N man - don't get too hung up on what others think is a "good crush". If you are making good beer and know the signs too look for that could result from milling faults then you can fine tune.

For example, I can close the gap on my mill another 0.15 mm and increase my efficiency to over 90%. Even then I don't get stuck sparges but everything just slows down and I would rather have a shorter brew day than stellar efficiency. How it works for you is influenced by your mash/sparge techniques and equipment.


----------



## sluggerdog (4/6/05)

Tidalpete said:


> sluggerdog said:
> 
> 
> > yep I emailed frank a few weeks ago, VERY impressed with the service. Made my mind VERY clear straight away what to do and what to buy (crankandstien - CGM-2A - $99)
> ...





Sounds good to me...


----------



## TidalPete (4/6/05)

Darren said:


> Nonicman,
> My mill is motorised and probably running a little too fast (320rpm).
> Those 1% probably contribute to final "haziness" of the beers.
> Unconverted starch can be a bugger.
> ...



Darren,
As you can see from from my earlier post, I am aiming for the CGM-3. It takes a little more fiddling around to set the gap you want, but in MHO is value for money at US$129. I can't wait.


----------



## nonicman (4/6/05)

sosman said:


> N man - don't get too hung up on what others think is a "good crush". If you are making good beer and know the signs too look for that could result from milling faults then you can fine tune.
> 
> For example, I can close the gap on my mill another 0.15 mm and increase my efficiency to over 90%. Even then I don't get stuck sparges but everything just slows down and I would rather have a shorter brew day than stellar efficiency. How it works for you is influenced by your mash/sparge techniques and equipment.
> [post="62240"][/post]​



That's good advice, thanks Sosman. 

Tidelpete, that'd be right, after I've purchased my mill, the prices drop.


----------



## TidalPete (4/6/05)

nonicman said:


> Tidelpete, that'd be right, after I've purchased my mill, the prices drop.



We've all been there mate. Can only hope they stay down till I get mine.


----------



## ODDBALL (4/6/05)

I would be interested in a bulk buy if you need someone to make up the numbers and would also like airmail.
I am torn between the CMG3 and the 2 roller version.

BTW what is the difference between a detent and knob adjustment?


----------



## TidalPete (4/6/05)

ODDBALL said:


> I would be interested in a bulk buy if you need someone to make up the numbers and would also like airmail.
> I am torn between the CMG3 and the 2 roller version.
> 
> BTW what is the difference between a detent and knob adjustment?



have a look at Crankenstien http://www.crankandstein.com/productsnew.htm & you'll see that a detent is a spring-loaded ball bearing that sits in a shallow recess & ensures that the setting will not accidently slip. Knob adjustment is just that. A tightened knob. The CMG-3D (with detent & gearing) at US$189 is a bit more expensive, but worth the money if it suits your budget. A three-roller mill is the way I want to go, but not if I have to sell the house. :lol: :lol: 
Send Sluggerdog & myself a PM & we'll try to organise things in the near future.


----------



## sluggerdog (4/6/05)

is the 1/2" Drive Shaft necessary? Can you still use a drill without this?


----------



## nonicman (4/6/05)

Hi Slugger, I can't find the post at the moment, but Dicko has posted some information on shaft sizes and the reasoning for choosing one over the other. He also has posted some impressive photos (worth searching for as it is such a good job) of his mill setup. All I can add is that if you are going to hand crank, the 1/2 inch shaft will not take the crank handle that Fred supplies.


----------



## sluggerdog (4/6/05)

Thanks Nonicman, I will just go the normal with the handle, I'm done care about making it using a drill or not. Handle is sweet for me!


----------



## dicko (4/6/05)

dicko said:


> Bigfella,
> If you can afford the bit extra go for the CGM 3D with the 1/2" drive shaft, from Crankandstein.
> It comes with plans to build the hopper written in plain english and the bloke is fair dinkum to deal with. Mine was here in about 10 days from ordering, and that was at xmas time.
> The 1/2" drive shaft makes it very easy to motorise if you wish and if not you can still drive it with a drill of the correct size.
> ...



Here is the post guys,
It is on page 2 of this thread.
Cheers


----------



## nonicman (4/6/05)

And the photos of Dicko's mill are on page one. This would be the mill thread I didn't look in


----------



## roach (4/6/05)

sluggerdog said:


> is the 1/2" Drive Shaft necessary? Can you still use a drill without this?
> [post="62263"][/post]​


SD,
I have the standard shaft on the crankandstein and tighten a drill chuck directly onto the shaft no probs.

Roach


----------



## TidalPete (4/6/05)

sluggerdog said:


> is the 1/2" Drive Shaft necessary? Can you still use a drill without this?
> [post="62263"][/post]​



Slugger,

Only being cautious. If the shaft does bend at some stage, It's almost impossible to get it running true again & a long way to send for a replacement.


----------



## sluggerdog (4/6/05)

Thanks Guys, I will get the handle and not worry about the drill at all. Easy as. A drill is too much for 5 kgs of grain... ha ha


----------



## ODDBALL (5/6/05)

Got a reply from Crankandstein via email today.

The 2A mill to Australia via Global Express will cost $50 to ship. That gives you insurance, and delivery in 3-5 days after shipment. Regular parcel post is only a couple of $$ less, but takes twice as long. If you step it up to any of our 3 roller models, it will cost $64 to get it there, using the same method. If you want to add a base or hopper, it will cost even more. We have a new dealer in Australia that should have mills in the next 4-5 weeks. Please contact Roy Ladhams in Bibra Lake, Western Australia at TWOC Brewing supplies, http://www.homebru.com.au/ He may be able to offer you a good price as well. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,

~~fred francis

Hope this helps anyone thinking of buying a mill.


----------



## barfridge (5/6/05)

That's brilliant news!
Looks like I've be heading off to TWOC soon.


----------



## TidalPete (5/6/05)

ODDBALL said:


> Got a reply from Crankandstein via email today.
> Please contact Roy Ladhams in Bibra Lake, Western Australia at TWOC Brewing supplies, http://www.homebru.com.au/ He may be able to offer you a good price as well.



Is Roy ladham's mailbox overflowing with requests for a Crankenstein mill??? :unsure: My mail to that address just bounced.  Has anyone else had better luck??? :blink:


----------



## voota (20/7/05)

Just got my crankandstein 2A today, after 9 weeks of waiting (and another 2 weeks before that for him to build it). Worth it though, looks a very sturdy piece of kit. As said before, Fred is a pleasure to deal with.
,Voota


----------



## AndrewQLD (20/7/05)

> Is Roy ladham's mailbox overflowing with requests for a Crankenstein mill??? My mail to that address just bounced. Has anyone else had better luck???



His Web site is a bit out of date, he still has Ausbeer listed and that hasn't been published for at least 5 years :blink: 

Andrew


----------



## TidalPete (20/7/05)

AndrewQLD said:


> > Is Roy ladham's mailbox overflowing with requests for a Crankenstein mill??? My mail to that address just bounced. Has anyone else had better luck???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I gave up after my last post (above) & dealt with Fred at Crankenstien who as we all know, bends over backwards to help. Fred still seems (5 weeks ago anyway) to be taking orders from Oz even though he warned me that when the Australian dealer (Roy Ladham) got his shipment of Crankenstien mills all Australian orders would be directed to Roy.

:beer:


----------



## Guest Lurker (20/7/05)

Really to get hold of Roy you have to ring him, and even then he only has one line so if he is doing an eftpos transaction you wont get through! But he usually checks the missed calls and quite often calls back if you havent got through.


----------



## Wobbo (23/7/05)

Got my new Crankandstein from Fred the other day took 4 days. All up cost inc freight was $300 for the CGM-3E 3 roller. Just made my hopper and base for it.







Cheers
Wobbo


----------



## Ross (23/7/05)

good work Wobbo - looks great...

God I hate you gifted buggers...


----------



## Brizbrew (25/7/05)

Wobbo said:


> Got my new Crankandstein from Fred the other day took 4 days. All up cost inc freight was $300 for the CGM-3E 3 roller. Just made my hopper and base for it.
> 
> View attachment 3195
> 
> ...


That looks like a good design there mate, done yourself proud!

I ordered my Mill from Fred yesterday and got an email today confirming it will be sent first thing Monday morning (US time) it will take around a week to arrive and be ready for my AG debut in a few weeks.
I ordered the 2A because I think it will be plenty enough and the missus will have a fit if I spend anymore money on brewing gear this month.


----------



## TidalPete (25/7/05)

Wobbo said:


> Got my new Crankandstein from Fred the other day took 4 days. All up cost inc freight was $300 for the CGM-3E 3 roller. Just made my hopper and base for it.
> 
> View attachment 3195
> 
> ...



A job well done Wobbo. How many kg's does the hopper hold?

:beer:


----------



## Wobbo (27/7/05)

The hopper holds approx 5kg. The hopper plans that come with all the Crankandstein mills only hold about 1-2kg so I basically doubled the size. 

Wobbo


----------



## Wobbo (27/7/05)

Brizbrew said:


> Wobbo said:
> 
> 
> > Got my new Crankandstein from Fred the other day took 4 days. All up cost inc freight was $300 for the CGM-3E 3 roller. Just made my hopper and base for it.
> ...



The 2A is a good mill, I have used one for the last 12 months and it works fine. I just got sick of running the grain through twice, once on a wide setting then once on a closer setting, with the 3 roller you just set and forget and run through once. Really only a pain when doing double batches ie. a 10kg grain bill. With a single batch it only takes about 10min to run it through twice.

Wobbo


----------

