# Ill-gotten keg fiends



## philmud (2/10/14)

http://craftypint.com/news/post/the-great-keg-robbery/

Incredible how many go missing. The culture of AHB obviously takes a dim view to stolen kegs, which is awesome.


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## Yob (2/10/14)

#1: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/richmond/miscellaneous-goods/beer-kegs-50l/1058050690

#2 http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wildwood/miscellaneous-goods/keg-for-sale/1054486666


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## DU99 (2/10/14)

If the breweries are that worried about it they should contact e/bay and gumtree and make them aware that people who sell those kegs are selling stolen property.


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## Yob (2/10/14)

Pretty sure it's not gumtree responsibility, impossible to police from their end, we as the community are more able to report.


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## Fat Bastard (2/10/14)

If the big breweries gave a hoot, they'd make it easier to return found kegs. I've still got the Little Creatures keg I found on the roadside. That's despite the fact they have my address, phone number and a string of emails asking them to come and get it like they said they would. It's been a year or more now. I figure it's mine!


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## manticle (2/10/14)

Might help if there weren't piles of them left out in the street outside nearly every pub in melbourne.


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

manticle said:


> Might help if there weren't piles of them left out in the street outside nearly every pub in melbourne.


Yeah. And if you ever leave your car unlocked in the street you deserve for people to steal your stuff from inside it.


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## manticle (2/10/14)

I'm not saying people deserve it, mr sarcasm. However, if a high proportion of cars in car parks left unlocked got stolen, do you think people might consider changing their habits?

You want to limit thievery, start by limiting access.


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## Flash_DG (2/10/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Yeah. And if you ever leave your car unlocked in the street you deserve for people to steal your stuff from inside it.


Not even the same thing. Now if he left all his stuff on the bonnet then it would be the same.


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

Flash_DG said:


> Not even the same thing. Now if he left all his stuff on the bonnet then it would be the same.


So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?


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## spog (2/10/14)

well if the breweries ever get serious and launch a dob in a keg relocator hotline,i am going to do some dobbing and get rich! 
no,just joking.as FB said he still has the one he found and done the right thing yet had no positive outcome.
cheers...spog...


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

I came into possession of a Matso's keg. Spoke to them on Facebook, they asked for address so someone could come pick it up. I dropped it off to a local bar instead. A carton got delivered to my door. 

I don't think one story is justification for people not really caring. Especially the micros.


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/10/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> If the big breweries gave a hoot, they'd make it easier to return found kegs. I've still got the Little Creatures keg I found on the roadside. That's despite the fact they have my address, phone number and a string of emails asking them to come and get it like they said they would. It's been a year or more now. I figure it's mine!


Send them one more email staing that as they have not made any effort to reclaim said keg that in 28 days you will be claiming it as your property


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## Flash_DG (2/10/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?


You've entirely missed the point of Manticle's post


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## DU99 (2/10/14)

It's the micro's that do it hard,every cent goes into to what they do...if a keg goes missing it's something that comes of there pocket,where as mega guys write it off


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## mfeighan (2/10/14)

if pubs got a rebate per keg returned say 10% they would care more about locking it up


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## real_beer (2/10/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> .......................... It's been a year or more now. I figure it's mine!


It is until you cut the top off & drill a few holes in it then you can bet within a week someome would suddenly turn up on your doorstep to pick it up :unsure: :lol:


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## DU99 (2/10/14)

they know who buy's from them..a deposit scheme might be in order


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## manticle (2/10/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?


Read what was written. No-one said anything about blame or fault. Practicality is another matter. You should be able to leave a wallet full of cash on the street in the morning and pick it up in the evening (and if I found it, I would make every effort to return it to you) but if you did and it got stolen, would you deliberately leave another there again or rethink your security strategy?


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

Yeah. Of course I would. 

Okay, I've read what you've written without inferring anything that hasn't been said. So what do you mean that it would be easier if the kegs weren't outside pubs? Who should do something about it? What, if anyone, should they be doing and are they to blame for not doing it already?


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## GrumpyPaul (2/10/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Yeah. And if you ever leave your car unlocked in the street you deserve for people to steal your stuff from inside it.





StalkingWilbur said:


> So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?





StalkingWilbur said:


> I came into possession of a Matso's keg. Spoke to them on Facebook, they asked for address so someone could come pick it up. I dropped it off to a local bar instead. A carton got delivered to my door.
> 
> I don't think one story is justification for people not really caring. Especially the micros.


Ohhhh WIlburrrr.


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

I don't understand the post? It came as part of a kegerator and I went out of my way to return it. If that's what you're getting at.


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## Tahoose (2/10/14)

Suppose It's a bit hard to demand a deposit on your kegs when your the micro brewery and your the one trying to get your beer on tap.

I think most of the responsibility here goes to the publican.

On the flip side of the coin this has opened up the market for companies like kegstar, they lease the kegs to the brewery and then using a barcode tagging system they track the movements of the kegs. Then re-supply you with kegs when you need them.

(That's my understanding anyway)

I know Mornington Brewery are using them.


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## manticle (2/10/14)

@wilbur: If you read what I've written you would remove the notion of blame. I've made that abundantly clear.
Now we are on the same page, I am suggesting that in practical terms, the system that allows piles of product to sit unfettered and unguarded in the middle of the street is problematic and closely linked with bulk product going missing. Be smart, lock your shit up.

Blame is not relevant (except when placed at the thief's/thieves' door but if you want to live in a world where thieves don't exist, I know where you can get prescription drugs at low cost).

I didn't say anything about being easier either. I initially said 'it might help'. If I need to extrapolate from that I would say it might help prevent thievery/retain product if large amounts of said product were not left for hours, unguarded, in public spaces.
Remember we are not talking about one or two going missing - we are talking multiples turning up in warehouses for on sale at profit. Black market thievery. Why wouldn't you secure your product?


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## MastersBrewery (2/10/14)

manticle,
to some degree I disagree, if i served you a beer in a Chrystal glass I'd expect the glass returned and to some degree you to take care with my glass wear. If you go to a pub and order a beer the publican won't agree with you smashing or taking home every other glass home. The vessels containing the product are not are not included in the contract of purchase (ie you are not purchasing the vessel ), in a Pub if the vessel is some how damaged your purchase is replaced. I even before I was brewing and while I was working in the industry found it quite alarming that businesses would place their suppliers assets on the street. Yes it's an issue but it is only something that the majors can start sorting out and create a new 'norm' in the pick up and delivery of kegs. The Pubs and clubs will follow what ever stipulations are laid down as we do for our local garbage pick up. As was said at the start of this thread it's the little guys that wear this sort of thing as a cost that really impacts their bottom line ,,,,, and therefore price at the tap .... I'm sure there's not a brewer here that dosen't want True South to have their 100 kegs back or Holgate or Stone and Wood etc, it may mean your pint next year isn't that 10c more and the year after and so on.

It's an industry problem that has been around for years, I think we all agree it needs fixing, one pub/club, or brewery isn't going to solve the problem, it needs to be industry wide and for the sake of a pint I hope it happens soon.

MB

ED: A further thought came to mind : In most states it is illegal to leave goods unsecured, hence the reason you may find breweries reluctant to approach authorities.


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## stakka82 (2/10/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> So if I leave MY wallet on MY bonnet then I'm to blame for it being stolen?


Yeah.


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## manticle (2/10/14)

I said the system needs fixing, not that the responsibility lies with the brewery.

Why on earth does anyone think it's a good idea for valuable product to lie around, in bulk, accessible for hours at all hours?
It's hardly heretical, illogical or blame the victim mentality to suggest working out a system where securing a product and encouraging clients to do likewise is a good way to stop theft.
I'm surprised this concept is hard to grasp.


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

Read the post above yours. That's why it's hard to gasp and easy to assume.


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## manticle (2/10/14)

You mean the post that says 'yeah' or the one from masters brewery I was responding to?

I'm pretty sure my point is fairly well explained so I will avoid doing the disservice of belabouring the same point again. By all means leave large numbers of valuable things in public and be surprised when some prick steals and sells them. Moral and ethical culpability are as practically relevant as the diameter of my cat's sphincter.


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## StalkingWilbur (2/10/14)

The one word answer clearly showing that some people do (and I've encountered it many times from people who start a discussion like yours and move quickly to placing all blame on the pubs) have a blame the victim mentality. 

Actually, I've witnessed it far too often from examples like the one I cited through to women being to blame for being sexually assaulted because they were wearing revealing clothing. It's bullshit. It's usually uneducated, white trash that have never been victimized and believe that's proof of causation that what they do is right.


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## manticle (3/10/14)

And far from my point. So if discussing with me, discuss the point I'm making, not the point someone else might be making. Also don't even imply that your willingness to misinterpret my point has anything in the world to do with my perspective on victims of sexual assault. Overreaching and massively offensive.


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## StalkingWilbur (3/10/14)

That point wasn't directed at you at all. I would've thought that was obvious seeing as you said I wouldn't be to blame for my wallet being stolen in the example I used. I apologise, honestly not intended like that. 

There's no willingness to misinterpret either. Let me break down your argument the way I'm reading it. 

Less items would go missing if they weren't easily accessible. 
You shouldn't be surprised when they do. 
Pubs aren't to blame. 

Now, I have to draw my own conclusions at some point and I can't because the way I'm seeing it, and I'll be corrected and leave the matter entirely after you reply whether I'm still confused or not, those three points don't add up. 

If you shouldn't be surprised that valuable items you leave out go missing, then you would be aware that there is a high chance it's going to happen. If pubs are leaving the items out knowing there's a high chance they're going to go missing, then I don't see how they're not to blame?


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## manticle (3/10/14)

Blame meaning morally culpable. Thief is morally culpable. Doesn't mean owner of gear can't be smart or practical. I lock my front door at night. If I forget one day and get murdered, I don't expect to be blamed. Locking my door still might have been helpful. Don't make it black/white /dogmatic. I've never been that guy, never thought you were either


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## manticle (3/10/14)

And your point was directed at me as you referred to my original post (since openly explained) about stolen kegs and suggested that points like mine (despite my specific assertation to the contrary) were on a par with blame the victim menatality. You were the one to bring in the parallel to sexual assault victims and not only is that a far cry from what I wrote, what I subsequently explained or what I meant, but it is such a far cry from my experience that any implication should be utterly and totally withdrawn.
Lock up your bike when going to the library was my advice, not imprison yourself in a niquab or face rape as a consequence.


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## pk.sax (3/10/14)

You blokes must have really dry taps...


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## Mardoo (3/10/14)

Isn't it weird that so many pubs don't have a dedicated storage area for one of the primary tools of their trade? It makes little sense that the brewer has to bear the sole cost of the loss of a tool that is essential to both the brewer and the pub. 

From the sounds of the podcasts I've heard from the US the keg exchange system is broken there too, at least for craft brewers. An even-split deposit system where the pub and brewer each hold half responsibility for the kegs seems most fair. Bet those kegs wouldn't be long on the street then!


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## TheWiggman (3/10/14)

I've been drunk before and one thing I've learnt from that is that other drunks see anything not bolted down as free game. I'd wager most of these kegs go missing whilst inebriated patrons are walking out of the said venues. Putting them in a cage of running a locked chain through the handles would go a long way.

I also learnt that trees look like a climbing aparatus.


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## Rambo (3/10/14)

If the pub owners lost money every time one was stolen, I'm sure they would soon invest in a length of chain and a padlock. They lock up their chairs and tables from any outside seating areas, why not their kegs?. And given that most pubs are owned by the same people who own Bunnings and Masters, I'm sure they could get a discount.


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## fraser_john (3/10/14)

This is for all intents and purposes the exact same problem Brambles had with their pallets always being nicked, but kegs are far more valuable.

Probably a good third party business in there for RFID keg tags, keg deposits for publicans and a pickup return service.


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## wide eyed and legless (3/10/14)

The onus would lie with both parties, BOC makes the hirer of the gas bottles responsible for any lost bottles, another solution would be when the brewery rep calls out to visit the publican question one should be where will you be storing the empty kegs securely,
no secure storage, no business transacted.


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## Flash_DG (3/10/14)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The onus would lie with both parties, BOC makes the hirer of the gas bottles responsible for any lost bottles, another solution would be when the brewery rep calls out to visit the publican question one should be where will you be storing the empty kegs securely,
> no secure storage, no business transacted.


Unfortunately Micros would never get their kegs out like that.


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## Mardoo (3/10/14)

In terms of the argument over responsibility earlier in the thread, one of the caveats of this situation is that the pubs are in care of property they don't own. Nor does the brewery necessarily know the publican. It's like loaning your tools to someone you've never met and assuming they'll take care of them, when quite often they're just leaving them on the street. 

Basically the system of responsibility for kegs is broken. Or rather, was shit in the first place.

Edit: spelling


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## StalkingWilbur (3/10/14)

manticle said:


> And your point was directed at me as you referred to my original post (since openly explained) about stolen kegs and suggested that points like mine (despite my specific assertation to the contrary) were on a par with blame the victim menatality.


I said I would leave the matter entirely, but seeing as you're doing exactly what you're blaming me for and drawing a conclusion despite me writing to contrary, I'm going to try to clarify that specific point once more as its not sitting well with me. 

I clearly exempted you from that example by both a paragraph break, a reference to the poster who was blatantly supporting a blame the victim mentality and in my subsequent post where I said I thought that would be obvious because you didn't blame the victim in the example of the wallet I used. It was more a justification of why I would enter the discussion in the first place and then that poster with that mentality came along and proved exactly what I was talking about. I had my house broken into two weeks ago through an upstairs bathroom window I left open and that bullshit mentality suggests it's my fault. 

It wasn't a comment on you, or even him. It was making a point about a culture that finds it acceptable to place blame on the person who has done nothing wrong, for something wrong that happens to them. Only a true fuckwit would agree with the assault example I used, but they're out there in, unfortunately, surprisingly large numbers

I'll apologise one last time for the offense caused and for the course of the conversion that went on an unhelpful and unrelated tangent on my behalf. It wasn't intended and I feel I've been pretty clear in explaining that. If you chose to not believe me then that's your choice.


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/10/14)

The big guys probably factor in the amount of kegs that go missing every year and incorporate that into the costs of production


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## wide eyed and legless (3/10/14)

Flash_DG said:


> Unfortunately Micros would never get their kegs out like that.


I presume they would all belong to a federation so it would be easy to implement some rule to safeguard their kegs, two words I hate is 'never can' and can't.



Ducatiboy stu said:


> The big guys probably factor in the amount of kegs that go missing every year and incorporate that into the costs of production


That would be spot on.


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## philmud (3/10/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> The big guys probably factor in the amount of kegs that go missing every year and incorporate that into the costs of production


The only way I'd buy that is if the cost of recovery exceeded the cost of theft (which it might, I have no idea!). The big boys all have shareholders to consider, so they're interested in anything affecting the bottom line.


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## Mardoo (3/10/14)

And all the big boys are largely selling to bound houses.


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## wide eyed and legless (3/10/14)

Lots of industries cost in losses expected and if they were serious about share holders think how easy it would be to implement a secure return system and leave that loss factor in their costings.
It is not dissimilar for companies giving out free quotes they will know what their strike rate is on a successful quote and factor the costs in to their product or service.


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## GrumpyPaul (3/10/14)




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## Bridges (3/10/14)

Theft by finding is still theft. Just a different charge. selling stolen goods is another charge. I'm surprised that the smaller brewers don't involve the police in these cases more often.
Advertising for sale stolen goods on gumtree would be a pretty easy case to prosecute you'd think.


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## CrookedFingers (3/10/14)

A level of respect for others needs to be exercised in this day and age.
Theft is theft, and it is pretty much as selfish as people get…."oh look, thats not mine, but I want it. Ill just take it".
What a rubbish attitude.

I can't stand that the poor innocent beer is the victim, thats the beers way of getting from brewery to my belly !


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## manticle (3/10/14)

> I said I would leave the matter entirely, but seeing as you're doing exactly what you're blaming me for and drawing a conclusion despite me writing to contrary, I'm going to try to clarify that specific point once more as its not sitting well with me.
> 
> I clearly exempted you from that example by both a paragraph break, a reference to the poster who was blatantly supporting a blame the victim mentality and in my subsequent post where I said I thought that would be obvious because you didn't blame the victim in the example of the wallet I used. It was more a justification of why I would enter the discussion in the first place and then that poster with that mentality came along and proved exactly what I was talking about. I had my house broken into two weeks ago through an upstairs bathroom window I left open and that bullshit mentality suggests it's my fault.
> 
> ...


Accepted and understood.

Clearly the attitude you refer to is fucked (no argument there) so you can understand why I don't want my comments even remotely associated by implication, inference or any connection whatsover.


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## Dave70 (3/10/14)

I can see some form of polymer keg in the future to make it less attractive to thieves. 

Which would be kind of like leaving your 2000 model Kia Rio in the street. Idling. With the drivers door open.


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## Yob (3/10/14)

(some) Kegs now days are being made with GPS locators... gotta help surely.. but there is still a cost to monitor and retrieve, if one outweighs the other I dunno.


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## GrumpyPaul (3/10/14)

Dave70 said:


> Which would be kind of like leaving your 2000 model Kia Rio in the street. Idling. With the drivers door open.


is Wilbur's wallet on the bonnet?


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## pcmfisher (3/10/14)

One of CUB's solutions for losing kegs in the 90s was instead of paying their subby drivers $1 to deliver a full keg and 10c to pick up an empty, they made it 50c for a full and 50c to pick up an empty. 
The drivers would actually go out of their way to pick up empty kegs rather than saying "Nah, got no room, I'll get them next week."

The publicans don't give a rat's about the empty kegs because, as far as I know, there is no consequence for losing them.


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## Dave70 (3/10/14)

GrumpyPaul said:


> is Wilbur's wallet on the bonnet?


Yes, but only as an incentive to steel the Kia. 
His wallet and the TapouT seat covers from Supercheap.


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## StalkingWilbur (3/10/14)

If I had a Kia Rio with Tapout seat covers then I would deserve to have my wallet stolen. 

I guess there's an exception to everything and you just found it.


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## Dave70 (3/10/14)

Not much point pinching the wallet. 
What good would a low income concession card with photo ID be to anybody else? 






Sorry, thats not very nice. Ive been watching to much Frankie Boyle standup lately.
Or not enough.


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## philmud (3/10/14)

The problem is that our judiciary is unimaginative. People caught on-selling stolen kegs should be forced to participate in a real life reconstruction of Donkey Kong whereby a gorilla (or a really hairy man, if gorillas are unable to be trained) throws the stolen kegs at them.


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## CrookedFingers (3/10/14)

Good laugh, thanks prince.
I would vote for that !
Should make it a gameshow.
Like 'it's a knockout' with alcohol.


CF


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## Feldon (3/10/14)

Dave70 said:


> I can see some form of polymer keg in the future to make it less attractive to thieves.


Already happening. The future is one-way PET kegs.

(so steal the metal ones while you can  )





Couple of companies making them, eg.

http://www.ecokeg.com/

http://www.petainer.com/Products/Kegs

Although designed to be sent to recycle once empty, I think these might be reusable by homebrewers if collected in good condition and cared for. Might replace for the corny in the future. The bigger ones (eg. 30 litre) would be great.

Edit: sp


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## Fat Bastard (3/10/14)

Yob said:


> (some) Kegs now days are being made with GPS locators... gotta help surely.. but there is still a cost to monitor and retrieve, if one outweighs the other I dunno.


I think if they cared, this would have already implemented it. The big boys would most likely consider kegs to be a consumable item absorbed into the yearly operations cost, and of course also taking into consideration the replacement cost of natural attrition whatever that may be. The one I found was beaten to hell and probably close to the end of its life anyway, hence not worth the effort of collection. They've probably got a team of actuaries that work this stuff out for them, and I'm sure if it was worth the effort, kegs would have gps locators on them already and a team of operatives to track them down.


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## Pogierob (3/10/14)

Feldon said:


> Already happening. The future is one-way PET kegs.
> 
> (so steal the metal ones while you can  )
> 
> ...


I have inspected these kegs and they are basically designed for a single use, the dip tube leaves about half a litre in the bottom of the bladder, you would have to flush out old stale beer, then sanitise, before re-using, this would mean you end up with half a litre of either unsanitized water (unless you pre boiled it and blah blah blah) or sanitiser that would end up mixing with your beer.
you then have the problem of the plastic fittings wearing out as they were only designed to be used once, 
you would basically be playing a game of "which **** up will destroy my keg of beer first".

They do make good pots for first year hops to grown in though.

As far as the article originally posted, that I believe is a matter for police because for 17000 kegs to be found in a factory is quite obviously organised crime and not the work of a few drunken jokers walking past a pub.


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## real_beer (3/10/14)

I believe one way to help slow down the keg theft problem is for existing home craft brewers to promote the many advantages of buying a well designed vessel, or set of vessels to any newly interested person of the hobby in the first place.

When all the keg conversion fever first started the choices available to hobbyist were limited and usually very expensive. Now however there's great choices available of well designed purpose built vessels to suit any budget, in most cases they're lighter and easier to handle, carry, clean, and store. Any do it yourself project like keg conversion for a beginning brewer always........ always ........ always, involves numerous trips to the hardware store and a generous investment of money in tools, drill bits, cutting discs ,lubricating oils, gloves, safety goggles ....... yada yada yada! This also eats up lots of a persons time and energy flitting from store to store getting everything you need. It can be an enjoyable pastime to some of course but the point is its probably better to do a few hours overtime at what your good at and just buy what you need. If you buy entry level vessels and look after them you'll always sell them easily if you ever want to upgrade to better ones later.

I know if I were starting out again the purpose built choices available now would seal the deal for me. It's also a great way to substantially support your chosen Home Brew Shop or On-line Supplier and maybe help keep them in business for the future to offer even more great gadgets as they become available :beer:


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/10/14)

Turning a keg into anything else but a keg is one of life's little joys that you would not wish on your stepmother. Yes the look great, but at the end of the day, its a lot of work and ******* about.








Disclaimer:- If you own a plasma cutter, lathe, TIG, pipe bender, flap wheels, die grinders, a big sheed,...etc...etc.. then It will make the work alot easier


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## Fat Bastard (3/10/14)

Yep, I've got access to all of that gear and more importantly, the skills to use it.

It was cheaper and easier for me to buy pots than for me to convert kegs, legally or illegally obtained.

Most stolen kegs end up holding up some Bogan's TV in their "man" cave, or as a hangi oven.


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## Blind Dog (3/10/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> If I had a Kia Rio with Tapout seat covers then I would deserve to have my wallet stolen.
> I guess there's an exception to everything and you just found it.


Seriously you think you'd deserve your wallet stolen?

Poor misguided fool

You'd deserve to be tarred, feathered, paraded in the cross and rogered senseless by T Abbott and called Malcolm


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## Blind Dog (3/10/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> I think if they cared, this would have already implemented it. The big boys would most likely consider kegs to be a consumable item absorbed into the yearly operations cost, and of course also taking into consideration the replacement cost of natural attrition whatever that may be. The one I found was beaten to hell and probably close to the end of its life anyway, hence not worth the effort of collection. They've probably got a team of actuaries that work this stuff out for them, and I'm sure if it was worth the effort, kegs would have gps locators on them already and a team of operatives to track them down.


Actuaries? Mere mortals ask a potential date if they'd like to see their etchings; actuaries ask if you'd like to see your personalized death table. Creeps


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## Fat Bastard (3/10/14)

My uncle is an actuary.

His career trajectory went from someone with a greasy haircut, a tattoo on his forearm of a skull wearing a flying helmet and googles and a leather jacket who stole motorbikes to a wool-classer, to the Chief Financial Officer of Brambles. He is now retired and quite likes ballroom dancing.

He is a creep to be sure, but he knows how to build a financial model of keg loss over the potential life of the keg fleet.


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## Blind Dog (4/10/14)

Fat Bastard said:


> My uncle is an actuary.
> 
> His career trajectory went from someone with a greasy haircut, a tattoo on his forearm of a skull wearing a flying helmet and googles and a leather jacket who stole motorbikes to a wool-classer, to the Chief Financial Officer of Brambles. He is now retired and quite likes ballroom dancing.
> 
> He is a creep to be sure, but he knows how to build a financial model of keg loss over the potential life of the keg fleet.


Just love the idea of a skull, flying helmet and google tattoo ...


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## Feldon (5/10/14)

Rob.P said:


> I have inspected these kegs and they are basically designed for a single use, the dip tube leaves about half a litre in the bottom of the bladder, you would have to flush out old stale beer, then sanitise, before re-using, this would mean you end up with half a litre of either unsanitized water (unless you pre boiled it and blah blah blah) or sanitiser that would end up mixing with your beer.
> you then have the problem of the plastic fittings wearing out as they were only designed to be used once,
> you would basically be playing a game of "which **** up will destroy my keg of beer first".


Never underestimate the ability of homebrewers to adapt, alter, modify, reuse or repurpose equipment items for applications and purposes they were not designed for.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/10/14)

I believe that apart from the brewery workers death in New Hampshire a brewery worker also died in the UK while steam cleaning a plastic keg.

http://www.brewbound.com/news/plastic-keg-safety-under-scrutiny


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## Weizguy (5/10/14)

real_beer said:


> I believe one way to help slow down the keg theft problem is for existing home craft brewers to promote the many advantages of buying a well designed vessel, or set of vessels to any newly interested person of the hobby in the first place.
> 
> When all the keg conversion fever first started the choices available to hobbyist were limited and usually very expensive. Now however there's great choices available of well designed purpose built vessels to suit any budget, in most cases they're lighter and easier to handle, carry, clean, and store. Any do it yourself project like keg conversion for a beginning brewer always........ always ........ always, involves numerous trips to the hardware store and a generous investment of money in tools, drill bits, cutting discs ,lubricating oils, gloves, safety goggles ....... yada yada yada! This also eats up lots of a persons time and energy flitting from store to store getting everything you need. It can be an enjoyable pastime to some of course but the point is its probably better to do a few hours overtime at what your good at and just buy what you need. If you buy entry level vessels and look after them you'll always sell them easily if you ever want to upgrade to better ones later.
> 
> I know if I were starting out again the purpose built choices available now would seal the deal for me. It's also a great way to substantially support your chosen Home Brew Shop or On-line Supplier and maybe help keep them in business for the future to offer even more great gadgets as they become available :beer:


I feel another way to stop the theft and ruination of further kegs is to reuse the already converted pots that are out there. In my early brewing days, I bought a stainless vessel that may have belonged to a brewing conglomerate, with handles welded on, to be used as a brew pot. The top was already cut off and could not be used for its original purpose. The vendor was able to weld the handles on to make the vessel useful again.




Bridges said:


> Theft by finding is still theft. Just a different charge. selling stolen goods is another charge. I'm surprised that the smaller brewers don't involve the police in these cases more often.
> Advertising for sale stolen goods on gumtree would be a pretty easy case to prosecute you'd think.


What's pissing me off lately is the ebay sales of CO2 bottles with BOC/Air Liquide branding/ stickers. As far as I know they cannot be refilled or owned by other than the mother company.
Tried to complete an online form via the BOC site, and they really seem to care less about the stolen bottles, as they know they'll either come back or end up at a metal recycler.

I bought a kegerator with CO2 bottle, which quickly leaked to emptiness once connected (due to a leaky keg, included with the fridge), and as it was a corporate bottle, the lhbs could not righteously refill it. 

Since then, I bought a Mykegonlegs bottle on eBait. Good resale value those bottles (6.8 kg size)


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