# Vertical element in single vessel system



## xredwood (29/3/14)

I'm considering building a single vessel system similar to the braumeister but I am in no way handy when it comes to electronics so will be keeping it to a manual system probably controlled by an STC1000 and a magnetic drive pump from KegKing. For the element I know a lot of people use bendable elements but I think it's a bit beyond me to be able to wire it up safely and I would prefer to use something plug and play.

I saw these https://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853 and thought it would be ideal. In order to use a malt pipe I would have to mount this through the bottom of the pot so it would be vertical and towards the side of the pot. Is there any problem with this? I would think that since it's recirculating it wouldn't be a problem with localized heating. The biggest issue I can see would be keeping it covered with liquid. 

Do you think it would work or can anyone else come up with an idea that avoids me having to wire an element that will work with a malt pipe?


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## MastersBrewery (29/3/14)

The problem I see is keeping the element covered with wort. The electronics/electrical side of things can be quite daunting. Perhaps if you let us know where you are some helpful soul may be able to lend you a hand with this part of your build.

Mike


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## TheWiggman (29/3/14)

Some people win but a lot lose with these elements. Do a forum search for 'keg king element' (or QldKev ) and you'll see the feedback. 
My advice is to be stay away from them. I'll bet you $39.90 plus postage you'll be replacing it with something else in the future.


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## angus_grant (29/3/14)

I don't think you could mount element vertically as it has to be covered by liquid all the time or it will boil dry and crap out. 

You can design a single vessel system with a straight element. This just means you have to have the malt pipe on bolts or a stand so the element goes underneath. 
Easiest way to recirc in this case is from the ball ball valve outside the pot and up into top of malt pipe. 
Or do a web search for braubushka. This uses cam locks as the link between pump and malt pipe. You could them use a straight element.


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## TheWiggman (29/3/14)

Xredwood, the other posters have hit the mark regarding keeping it submersed. Regarding your original query about other options: I don't think there are any other plug and play options. Though if you're going to go to the trouble of making a system like this you're taking a big leap into an involved project, and to be honest I don't think wiring a bendable element is much of a concern in the scheme of things. For the many hundreds you'll be spending on stainless and a controller you might as well save hassles and enjoy the performance of something suited for the job.


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## QldKev (29/3/14)

Those elements are not plug and play, they are plug and pray...

I agree with TheWiggman. $50 for a shit element, plus a cord, plus post. Then look at a decent bendable element. Against the cost of the project I think the bendable element wins out for this situation 10 fold.


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## xredwood (29/3/14)

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The reason I don't want to use the raised malt pipe is I'd prefer to pump wort from the bottom like the braumeister. I essentially want to do a Braumeiser (Mathos) but for 23L batches and without the controller.

I did a google search and looked through posts on here about how the bendable element comes and how you do wire it up but came up with nothing. Can anyone give me a quick run down and tell me how it's done? 

Am I better off just going for BIAB with a crown urn, throw in a ball valve and recirculate from that?


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## nathan_madness (29/3/14)

Recirculating a BIAB is a PITA. It is possible I have done it but you have to get your pump right and your bag (swiss voile  ) right.


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## MastersBrewery (30/3/14)

xredwood said:


> Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The reason I don't want to use the raised malt pipe is I'd prefer to pump wort from the bottom like the braumeister. I essentially want to do a Braumeiser (Mathos) but for 23L batches and without the controller.
> 
> I did a google search and looked through posts on here about how the bendable element comes and how you do wire it up but came up with nothing. Can anyone give me a quick run down and tell me how it's done?
> 
> Am I better off just going for BIAB with a crown urn, throw in a ball valve and recirculate from that?


You could do a brau clone from an urn, you'd just need to be very careful with where/how you set up recirculation


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## xredwood (30/3/14)

Now there's an idea... Does anyone know what it looks like underneath the bottom of the vessel? Looking at pictures of the exposed element urn a malt pipe could fit around the element, seal to the bottom with the element inside the malt pipe, pump inlet directly in the middle of it, outlet to the side of it. 

The malt pipe would need something to keep the grain above the element obviously. Can anyone see any issues with this?


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## MastersBrewery (30/3/14)

I have a 35L Woodson urn, it has the concealed element, a big w pot would easily have clearance internally, the trick will be placement of the center rod. I had put this thing to the back of the shed for the last 9 months or so. Doing a brew day with Lael next week, might drag this along and see if we can come up with something. (the minister of war and finance is not going to be impressed! I'll just blame you  ) With an exposed element I'd think it would be easier I'll be drilling right next to the element itself. In the end I payed like $30 for the urn so I break it it's not a big loss, and element replacements aren't all that expensive. I should be able to knock out 20L batches. Actually having had a second look I may be a little tight for the big w pot, we'll see.


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## xredwood (31/3/14)

My thoughts were if you can find a pot to fit inside and around the element, you could put 2 threaded rods through the pot with the bottom cut out a few cms above the bottom of the urn. On top of that put a sheet of perforated stainless with a hole for the threaded rod mounted vertically to allow you to thread the top filter on as well (I'm thinking of using a splatter guard for the top).

As you said the issue will be fitting the threaded rod AND the pump outlet in the space in the middle of the exposed element...


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## angus_grant (31/3/14)

My original plan was for a clamping system which would work from the top of the main pot. No need for a threaded rod at all. 

Attach to handles of main pot and then wind down onto inner pot. This would be for using pump running through base like Braumeister/braumeiser setups.

For the simplest approach, you could recirc from ball valve into top of inner pot using silicon tube and not even touch your urn. Prob need to put some bolts on inner pot to lift of element to help prevent scorching of grain. Nice and simples. You would have to watch water flow through grain though to make sure element is always covered. But then you have to do that with BM setup as well.


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## breakbeer (31/3/14)

+1 for the idea of simplicity & just recirc to the top of the pot. To avoid overflow you might need to drill some holes or cut some slits in the malt pipe to help. With this approach you'd need to use a bag too


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## pat_00 (3/4/14)

What about a weight on top of the mash pipe to keep it sealed? Then no need for clamps or drilling a hole for the threaded rod.

Might take a bit of stuffing around to find the right weight, but I reckon it could work.


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## MastersBrewery (3/4/14)

breakbeer said:


> +1 for the idea of simplicity & just recirc to the top of the pot. To avoid overflow you might need to drill some holes or cut some slits in the malt pipe to help. With this approach you'd need to use a bag too


path of least resistance would work against this


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## breakbeer (3/4/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> path of least resistance would work against this


Then my system must be an exception to that rule


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