# How long do FWKs last?



## mynameisrodney (8/8/20)

Hi all, 

I mostly brew all grain, but a bit under a year ago I bought a FWK on a whim, then put it in the garage and kept forgetting about it. 

Will it still be safe to use? Or should I just chuck it out? 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## Cloud Surfer (8/8/20)

Does it have a use by date there somewhere?


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## mynameisrodney (8/8/20)

No just a manufacture date


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## Nullnvoid (8/8/20)

If it has been stored cool it will be fine.


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## Hangover68 (8/8/20)

Chuck it in the FV and see how it goes.


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## philrob (8/8/20)

If it hasn't swollen, you'd think it'll be OK. If it smells OK, I don't see a problem.


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## mynameisrodney (8/8/20)

OK cheers guys, I'll give it a crack.


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## JDW81 (9/8/20)

The longest I’ve had a cube sit for was 18 months. It sat in the garage through a Melbourne summer. It was excellent when I finally fermented it. Others have had cubes sit for longer.

If the cube isn’t swollen, if it smells OK and tastes OK (i.e. like sweet, bitter wort) then go for it!


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## Nullnvoid (9/8/20)

Yeah, I have had a cube sit for 3 years and it was fine. These days my drinking has increased a fraction so they get turned over quickly, but when my daughter was born I had quite the stash of cubes.

I have a cube at the moment that's 5 years old. I am not sure if it is still alright, I just haven't felt like that style yet so it never gets fermented. But I should!

I'll let every know how it goes!


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## KegLand-com-au (10/8/20)

I know grain and grape have done these trials and I was told by them that they kept fresh wort kit for 2 years and it had no noticeable impact to flavour. I would have thought that some aroma would have been lost but they did not say this. I guess if you really want hop aroma it's still a good idea to dry hop anyway.

Also, would you guys be interested in us supplying bladders to use for fresh wort. The cubes are good but they are not always the right size and they are expensive to ship as they are so bulky. We can get the bladders made up suitable for hot filling and a 20L bladder would be about $2-3. This includes the cost of us getting the bladders irradiated. So you would get a bladder that is absolutely sterile when you fill. I think we could probably sell these as a pack of 10 bladders for under $2 each with screw cap. This would also be cheap enough that you could give a bladder of fresh wort to a friend and not worry about getting the cube back from them. Would be keen to get some feedback from you guys to see if this is a good idea or not.


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## Nullnvoid (10/8/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I know grain and grape have done these trials and I was told by them that they kept fresh wort kit for 2 years and it had no noticeable impact to flavour. I would have thought that some aroma would have been lost but they did not say this. I guess if you really want hop aroma it's still a good idea to dry hop anyway.
> 
> Also, would you guys be interested in us supplying bladders to use for fresh wort. The cubes are good but they are not always the right size and they are expensive to ship as they are so bulky. We can get the bladders made up suitable for hot filling and a 20L bladder would be about $2-3. This includes the cost of us getting the bladders irradiated. So you would get a bladder that is absolutely sterile when you fill. I think we could probably sell these as a pack of 10 bladders for under $2 each with screw cap. This would also be cheap enough that you could give a bladder of fresh wort to a friend and not worry about getting the cube back from them. Would be keen to get some feedback from you guys to see if this is a good idea or not.


I will certainly like to give these a go! Would the bladders be reusable?

If you need someone to test these I am your man!


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## DU99 (10/8/20)

All inn brewing has 12 month date on theirs and uses bladders


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## YAPN (10/8/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> suitable for hot filling


Are they rated for 100C or would some cooling be necessary?


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## KegLand-com-au (10/8/20)

YAPN said:


> Are they rated for 100C or would some cooling be necessary?



The bags are rated to 100C so you can hot fill right out of the kettle.


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## KegLand-com-au (10/8/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> I will certainly like to give these a go! Would the bladders be reusable?
> 
> If you need someone to test these I am your man!



The bladders are re-usable but more difficult to clean than a traditional cube. One thing that you would be able to do if you had any doubts if the bag was clean or not is squeeze all the air out and boil the sealed bladder between uses. At this price I would imagine some customers might just throw them after one use though too. They just seal using a screw cap so they are a bit different to the standard wine cask.


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## Nullnvoid (10/8/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> The bladders are re-usable but more difficult to clean than a traditional cube. One thing that you would be able to do if you had any doubts if the bag was clean or not is squeeze all the air out and boil the sealed bladder between uses. At this price I would imagine some customers might just throw them after one use though too. They just seal using a screw cap so they are a bit different to the standard wine cask.


Interesting. Would definitely be keen to give them a go. I have 12 fulls cubes and just about run out.

I like to build up stock of different styles in case I cannot brew because of family commitments.


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## mynameisrodney (10/8/20)

Thanks for all the extra feedback guys. It wasn't a hoppy beer, so if the hops fading is the biggest concern it should be fine. I'll report back in a few weeks.


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## yankinoz (11/8/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I know grain and grape have done these trials and I was told by them that they kept fresh wort kit for 2 years and it had no noticeable impact to flavour. I would have thought that some aroma would have been lost but they did not say this. I guess if you really want hop aroma it's still a good idea to dry hop anyway.


Although Grain and Grape keeps their worts on the shelves, was that true of their test wort, or was it refrigerated?


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## KegLand-com-au (14/8/20)

yankinoz said:


> Although Grain and Grape keeps their worts on the shelves, was that true of their test wort, or was it refrigerated?



I was given the impression that this test word was just stored in their warehouse. It was more than 2 years ago when I was told this so hopefully one of the Grain and Grape staff can comment, remember and clarify how the test was conducted. I got the feeling that it was wort that they had forgotten about and was just sitting in a corner of the warehouse.


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## KegLand-com-au (14/8/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> I will certainly like to give these a go! Would the bladders be reusable?
> 
> If you need someone to test these I am your man!



No worries at all. Well seeing as we have some interest and we got some private message about this product we have ordered these and they are going to take a few weeks to get made up for us. The bladder suppliers do not normally make this screw cap so we had to order a couple thousand just so they would make them especially for us with this closure type. They will looks like this:









10 x 20L Hot Fill Wine/Wort Cask Bladder - Hot Cube Alternative (Irradiated)


Stop wasting time chilling home brew wort. These bladders/bags are ideally suited to brewers who want to save time and avoid chilling wort on your brew day. Simply fill with hot wort and screw on the cap.




www.kegland.com.au





As you can see they only cost $1.60 each if you purchase a box of 10. The freight will be a lot cheaper than sending empty 20L cubes around the country. 

I am a bit embarrassed to say this but I think the days of me washing out cubes is probably over. As much as I like the idea of reduce/reuse/recycle to minimise the impact on the environment I think a small amount of plastic film used to make 20L of beer might just be the compromise I have to make.

If you specifically wanted to test these out and get back to us with some feedback then PM me and we can organise some free ones for you when they come into stock.


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## beergee (14/8/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> No worries at all. Well seeing as we have some interest and we got some private message about this product we have ordered these and they are going to take a few weeks to get made up for us. The bladder suppliers do not normally make this screw cap so we had to order a couple thousand just so they would make them especially for us with this closure type. They will looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These look fantastic. 
Real space savers when not in use too.


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## fdsaasdf (14/8/20)

Personally I won't be buying a non-reusable product but good for you to keep innovating @KegLand-com-au 

Back on topic - I keep my FWKs in the dark under a towel in my reasonably well insulated under-house recess. I don't get to brew more than every few months so build up a cache of various beers - those that are highly hopped are fermented early but I've kept other cubes of stout, amber, RIS etc for just over 2 years at most. 

My 18 month old RIS cube that was bottle conditioned for 6 weeks scored 2nd place in the state champs.


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## Ernois (14/9/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I know grain and grape have done these trials and I was told by them that they kept fresh wort kit for 2 years and it had no noticeable impact to flavour. I would have thought that some aroma would have been lost but they did not say this. I guess if you really want hop aroma it's still a good idea to dry hop anyway.
> 
> Also, would you guys be interested in us supplying bladders to use for fresh wort. The cubes are good but they are not always the right size and they are expensive to ship as they are so bulky. We can get the bladders made up suitable for hot filling and a 20L bladder would be about $2-3. This includes the cost of us getting the bladders irradiated. So you would get a bladder that is absolutely sterile when you fill. I think we could probably sell these as a pack of 10 bladders for under $2 each with screw cap. This would also be cheap enough that you could give a bladder of fresh wort to a friend and not worry about getting the cube back from them. Would be keen to get some feedback from you guys to see if this is a good idea or not.


Looks like a great idea. I would be keen to try these. What do they look like when full and are how easy are they to handle/move around?


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## kadmium (14/9/20)

What are the bladders made from? I'm always suspect of cheap as anything Chinese plastics and my health.


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## Grmblz (14/9/20)

^ +1


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## S.E (14/9/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> The bladder suppliers do not normally make this screw cap so we had to order a couple thousand just so they would make them especially for us with this closure type.


These sound like they would be perfect for real ale? No need to clean and sanitise first like a cube or polypin. All you would need is a cap with a tap similar to collapsible camping water containers. Would that be possible? What sort of cap do the bladder suppliers usual supply?


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## S.E (14/9/20)

kadmium said:


> What are the bladders made from? I'm always suspect of cheap as anything Chinese plastics and my health.


This is what it says in the link above.

*Triple Layer*
The triple layer construction consists of:
Layer 1 - 50micron polyethylene (PE)
Layer 2 - 45micron polyethylene (PE)
Layer 3 - 15micron nylon
Layer 1 gives the bladder the best possible chemical resistance making this bag suitable for a wide range of beverages. Layer 2 and 3 are laminated together for strength, puncture resistance and also to give the bag superior oxygen barrier properties keeping the liquid fresher for longer.


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## kadmium (14/9/20)

Well Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) should not be subjected to heat over 80c for any period of time. So I would be very wary of people pouring molten sugar liquids into bags at 100c and then moving them around. A small leak will be catastrophic and cause serious burns.

Not saying it's not a good product, just wary of 'new' and 'custom made' for hot filling. Sure, these bags have been around for cool liquids but LDPE loses a lot of its strength at over 20c temps.

LDPE also releases Methane and Ethylene (a class 3 Carcinogen - Unknown as to cancer causing in humans) for a substantial period of time after manufacture.









Low-density polyethylene - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Ethylene - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## S.E (14/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Well Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) should not be subjected to heat over 80c for any period of time. So I would be very wary of people pouring molten sugar liquids into bags at 100c and then moving them around. A small leak will be catastrophic and cause serious burns.
> 
> Not saying it's not a good product, just wary of 'new' and 'custom made' for hot filling. Sure, these bags have been around for cool liquids but LDPE loses a lot of its strength at over 20c temps.
> 
> ...


Oh well! Still may be perfect for real ale containers though?


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## kadmium (14/9/20)

Yeah for low temp it looks really good. Just suspicious on filling it with boiling sugar liquid and someone scorching themselves. 

But for real ale looks ******* skitz. Get yourself a hand pull and a sparkler and have some real cask ale!


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## Grmblz (14/9/20)

Now sitting here with a glass of the finest chateau-de-cardboard it occurs to me that the bladders inside wine casks are not pe, I believe they are mylar?
mmm Google tells me it's metalized Biaxially-Oriented PolyEthylene Terephthalate (boPET) whatever the fk that is, but it brings up the question, if the wine industry with it's millions of research dollars says this is the stuff to store alcoholic drinks (prone to oxidation) in for an extended period of time, perhaps ldpe isn't the best choice.


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## S.E (14/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Yeah for low temp it looks really good. Just suspicious on filling it with boiling sugar liquid and someone scorching themselves.
> 
> But for real ale looks ******* skitz. Get yourself a hand pull and a sparkler and have some real cask ale!


I already have hand pulls (beer engines) you don’t need a hand pull for real ale and certainly not a sparkler so all good there.

If they are good for no chill I may try them and even go back to doing that also. At the moment I find it easier to chill wort if it is over about 20 Litres.


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## kadmium (14/9/20)

S.E said:


> I already have hand pulls (beer engines) you don’t need a hand pull for real ale and certainly not a sparkler so all good there.
> 
> If they are good for no chill I may try them and even go back to doing that also. At the moment I find it easier to chill wort if it is over about 20 Litres.


I see you're not a sparkler fan


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## S.E (14/9/20)

kadmium said:


> I see you're not a sparkler fan


I am a big fan of beer engines and also sparklers. But sometimes think I may as well be smashing my head in to a brick wall than explaining yet again that cask/real ale don’t need to be served through either.


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## kadmium (15/9/20)

S.E said:


> I am a big fan of beer engines and also sparklers. But sometimes think I may as well be smashing my head in to a brick wall than explaining yet again that cask/real ale don’t need to be served through either.


Why not? (Joke)


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## KegLand-com-au (15/9/20)

Ernois said:


> Looks like a great idea. I would be keen to try these. What do they look like when full and are how easy are they to handle/move around?



I have over-filled one of these to 23L and this was more difficult to handle but if you fill to the specified 20L you can just pick it up by hand pretty easily. I would say that when they are hot you really want some way to hold onto the neck. This is the only issue that I found. I have since started to use some laser cut pieces of wood to hold the neck of the bag and this seems to make the neck easier to hold. If you guys find like using the bags we will probably make a wire neck holder or something to make it a bit easier but I am sure a lot of you guys who are pretty handy will find a way to hold the neck of the bag just with stuff lying around the house. I did use VB cord to hold onto the neck and tied to the side of the milk crate. So something as simple as this can also solve the problem.

I need to do some more testing but the bladders also seem to cool down faster. I need to do some side by side testing to get the actual data but it seems to be the case. 

If you are the type of person who likes to chill the hot wort a bit quicker you can stick the bladder in a plastic tub with cold water. I do find that when I do this with rigid 20L cubes I can only fit one in the 80 plastic tub that I have. If I use bladders I can put several in the same 80L tub. I generally do not care if it cools down to pitching temp but I at least like to get the wort below 80C as quickly as I can if I have put hops into the bladder.


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## KegLand-com-au (15/9/20)

S.E said:


> Oh well! Still may be perfect for real ale containers though?



As far as plastics go LDPE is widely seen to be safe and one of most used plastics in food packaging such as containers, glad wrap, bags, etc. Small amounts of ethylene and methane may be released at the time of manufacture but are released to atmosphere and come out of the plastics over time. Both ethylene and methane are quite volatile and even if it was to get into the fermenter (which is unlikely) it would blow off well and truly before the fermentation finishes. You are probably more likely to breathe in far more methane from a fart or a pile of lawn clippings as you walk past a garden bed or simply taking a couple seconds to light a gas stove. I would imagine simply going to the petrol station and breathing in the fumes would pose a far greater health risk.


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## KegLand-com-au (15/9/20)

kadmium said:


> What are the bladders made from? I'm always suspect of cheap as anything Chinese plastics and my health.



In order to be able to resist filling with hot liquid we need to use a triple layer barrier. so we have two layers of polyethylene with a layer of nylon in between. The polyethylene gives the plastic some protection from abrasion and puncture resistance and also improves the chemical resistance. The nylon is the barrier that is primarily to reduce gas transmission (oxygen in particular). Polyethylene is quite poor when it comes to oxygen transmission but nylon is excellent. So the multi layer film takes advantages of the properties of each layer.

There seems to be a lot of negative consumer sentiment at the moment especially with the amount of publicity that Trump is getting in America. With that said many of the Australian made bladders are made from Chinese film so even if we are to purchase the bags locally we would be in the same position. Its not so much an issue as to which country the bags are made but making sure they are made to the right food grade specifications.

I am not that into cask ales but I would be keen to get some feedback from you guys if any of you wanted to give cask ales a go in a bladder. I know commercially it's been done quite a lot already but I have not heard of home brewers doing this before.


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## S.E (16/9/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> As far as plastics go LDPE is widely seen to be safe and one of most used plastics in food packaging such as containers, glad wrap, bags, etc. Small amounts of ethylene and methane may be released at the time of manufacture but are released to atmosphere and come out of the plastics over time. Both ethylene and methane are quite volatile and even if it was to get into the fermenter (which is unlikely) it would blow off well and truly before the fermentation finishes. You are probably more likely to breathe in far more methane from a fart or a pile of lawn clippings as you walk past a garden bed or simply taking a couple seconds to light a gas stove. I would imagine simply going to the petrol station and breathing in the fumes would pose a far greater health risk.


I wasn’t being serious or concerned about the dangers of the plastic, I was asking about a tap on the cap option?

I’ve posted on the KL Q&A thread about how they could be used for no chill and also used to ferment in without the need to transfer the wort to a separate fermenter especially if they could be made a little larger to give enough headspace for a 20L-25L brew length. What are your thoughts on that? KegLand Questions and Answers


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## mje1980 (16/9/20)

S.E said:


> I am a big fan of beer engines and also sparklers. But sometimes think I may as well be smashing my head in to a brick wall than explaining yet again that cask/real ale don’t need to be served through either.


You know I’m an engine and sparkler fan sean, but when you’re using your cube, do you just cool your cube down after priming and use the tap? Just crack the lid? My concern is that a full cube is a lot for one person, do you just seal the lid when you’re done for the night? I’m sure you have explained many times to me already haha


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## kadmium (16/9/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> In order to be able to resist filling with hot liquid we need to use a triple layer barrier. so we have two layers of polyethylene with a layer of nylon in between. The polyethylene gives the plastic some protection from abrasion and puncture resistance and also improves the chemical resistance. The nylon is the barrier that is primarily to reduce gas transmission (oxygen in particular). Polyethylene is quite poor when it comes to oxygen transmission but nylon is excellent. So the multi layer film takes advantages of the properties of each layer.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of negative consumer sentiment at the moment especially with the amount of publicity that Trump is getting in America. With that said many of the Australian made bladders are made from Chinese film so even if we are to purchase the bags locally we would be in the same position. Its not so much an issue as to which country the bags are made but making sure they are made to the right food grade specifications.
> 
> I am not that into cask ales but I would be keen to get some feedback from you guys if any of you wanted to give cask ales a go in a bladder. I know commercially it's been done quite a lot already but I have not heard of home brewers doing this before.


LDPE is not meant to be subjected to temps over 80c, and definitely not over 90. 

What sort of testing or assurances / lab reports do you have that prove your tripple layer bags are safe for filling with boiling hot liquid before carrying them around?

Sure they may he food grade, but after my experience with your "food grade silicone hose" that stank so badly of curing agent I returned it, I'm suspect on the quality of the goods when the business model is "buy it as cheap as possible" 

I'm also concerned that someone si.ply had an idea at KL that you could just fill these up with hot liquid cause you'd done it a few times at your factory and it looked fine. 

Your fermzillas exploded on some occasions, and now your selling a product that you are telling people is ok to fill with 20L of boiling hot liquid. 

Not sure why you would insinuate Trump has anything to do with sentiment against Chinese products, there are plenty of good things that come out of there but the reality is if you buy cheap you get cheap. And you guys buy as cheap as possible. 

So the concern is valid. Do you have some scientific data, or testing (Australian, not something the manufacturer paid for) to show your LDPE bags somehow defy the laws of physics and chemical engineering to withstand temps over 80C, other than just "making it 3 ply"


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## Coalminer (16/9/20)

OOPS wrong thread, sorry


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## S.E (16/9/20)

mje1980 said:


> You know I’m an engine and sparkler fan sean, but when you’re using your cube, do you just cool your cube down after priming and use the tap? Just crack the lid? My concern is that a full cube is a lot for one person, do you just seal the lid when you’re done for the night? I’m sure you have explained many times to me already haha


Cask ale in a firkin generally lasts about 3-4 days in a pub once exposed to oxygen. I find in a cube it lasts longer, about twice as long. I put this down at least partly to the beer in a cube having a smaller surface area compared to a horizontal firkin. I do usually just crack open the cap then shut it after each pour rather than having it vented with a soft spile.


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## YAPN (17/9/20)

kadmium said:


> So the concern is valid. Do you have some scientific data, or testing (Australian, not something the manufacturer paid for) to show your LDPE bags somehow defy the laws of physics and chemical engineering to withstand temps over 80C, other than just "making it 3 ply"


I'm pretty keen to use these things, they seem perfect for my process. I have asked the supplier if I can fill them with 100C liquid and they told me I was good to go. That's enough for me.

I don't understand your concerns.


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## YAPN (17/9/20)

S.E said:


> I do usually just crack open the cap then shut it after each pour rather than having it vented with a soft spile.


Sorry if this question is a little simple but I gather that you condition your real ale in a cube? I have tried this once, the beer was good but I used too much conditioning sugar. That poor cask was seriously distorted. What amount of conditioning sugar do you use? And what tap do you have in place?


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## mje1980 (17/9/20)

YAPN said:


> Sorry if this question is a little simple but I gather that you condition your real ale in a cube? I have tried this once, the beer was good but I used too much conditioning sugar. That poor cask was seriously distorted. What amount of conditioning sugar do you use? And what tap do you have in place?


He just uses the tap on the cube. 4g/ltr is good for English ales


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## wide eyed and legless (17/9/20)

You need very little sugar for a cask ale, if you can't drink it quick enough connect it to a CO2 supply (collected CO2 from ferment) or do as Sean does crack open the top.


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## kadmium (17/9/20)

YAPN said:


> I'm pretty keen to use these things, they seem perfect for my process. I have asked the supplier if I can fill them with 100C liquid and they told me I was good to go. That's enough for me.
> 
> I don't understand your concerns.


Because the supplier is not the manufacturer, and the supplier (who's interest is to make money like any business) has a vested interest to tell you it's fine. I would like independent verification that it's safe, considering their fermentation vessels are pressure tested and shown to be safe. Then filling a plastic bag made from material that shouldn't be exposed to temps exceeding 80c without safety data to show it's ok, is just risking your own health. They should be able to provide data / evidence that is independently gathered to show the safety of filling thin plastic bags with boiling hot liquids, before selling them on mass to consumers.

If you don't want evidence before using them, that's for you. But if I want it before I start using them, that's for me. So you don't have the right to tell me what I am, or am not allowed to ask for.


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## S.E (17/9/20)

YAPN said:


> Sorry if this question is a little simple but I gather that you condition your real ale in a cube? I have tried this once, the beer was good but I used too much conditioning sugar. That poor cask was seriously distorted. What amount of conditioning sugar do you use? And what tap do you have in place?


I use about 30g to 50g of sugar. They do swell considerably over a few days but you can control it if it goes too far by releasing pressure from the cap or turn the cube with the tap uppermost and releasing co2 from that. They take about 20 psi before they balloon too much.

You can use a standard plastic fermenter or water drum tap like this.

I discovered years ago that these taps hold pressure and don’t drip if you pop them apart in boiling water and apply a little food grade lube. People also do that these days to stop fermenter taps dripping after they have been pulled apart for cleaning.


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## S.E (17/9/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> if you can't drink it quick enough connect it to a CO2 supply (collected CO2 from ferment) or do as Sean does crack open the top.


I also use the collapsible bag of co2 taken from the fermenter WEAL. If you recall it was me that first thought of the idea and posted it on here.


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## butisitart (17/9/20)

mynameisrodney said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I mostly brew all grain, but a bit under a year ago I bought a FWK on a whim, then put it in the garage and kept forgetting about it.
> 
> ...


i had to read about 10 posts to get this. i thought you were dyslexic. i got a f***wit on a whim, put him/her in the garage and kept forgetting about him/her. is s/he still safe to use?? or should i just chuck him/her out.
now i get it 
my missus is married to a fkw but she hasn't chucked it out yet


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## YAPN (18/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Because the supplier is not the manufacturer, and the supplier (who's interest is to make money like any business) has a vested interest to tell you it's fine. I would like independent verification that it's safe, considering their fermentation vessels are pressure tested and shown to be safe. Then filling a plastic bag made from material that shouldn't be exposed to temps exceeding 80c without safety data to show it's ok, is just risking your own health. They should be able to provide data / evidence that is independently gathered to show the safety of filling thin plastic bags with boiling hot liquids, before selling them on mass to consumers.
> 
> If you don't want evidence before using them, that's for you. But if I want it before I start using them, that's for me. So you don't have the right to tell me what I am, or am not allowed to ask for.


I read back through my post to see if I had said anything about your 'rights' and could not find any mention of them.

Thank you though, for further explaining your concerns. I was under the impression that you did not intend purchasing any of these bladders and were raising concerns on behalf of those who did. As for the safe use these things I am quite happy getting the OK from the supplier, if you require further information before purchase that is your prerogative.


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## YAPN (18/9/20)

S.E said:


> I use about 30g to 50g of sugar. They do swell considerably over a few days but you can control it if it goes too far by releasing pressure from the cap or turn the cube with the tap uppermost and releasing co2 from that. They take about 20 psi before they balloon too much.
> 
> You can use a standard plastic fermenter or water drum tap like this.
> 
> I discovered years ago that these taps hold pressure and don’t drip if you pop them apart in boiling water and apply a little food grade lube. People also do that these days to stop fermenter taps dripping after they have been pulled apart for cleaning.


Thanks for that. I used 180g in a 10lt cube, but it looks like I got most of the process right. I just need another fridge now to keep everything at the proper temp.


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## kadmium (18/9/20)

YAPN said:


> I read back through my post to see if I had said anything about your 'rights' and could not find any mention of them.
> 
> Thank you though, for further explaining your concerns. I was under the impression that you did not intend purchasing any of these bladders and were raising concerns on behalf of those who did. As for the safe use these things I am quite happy getting the OK from the supplier, if you require further information before purchase that is your prerogative.


I would have a stock of 10 for emergencies when I need to cut a brew day short and decide to no chill, but I would want some evidence they are safe. I have little ones running around, and those things take a long time to cool down. I also am a bit suspect on the safety of them, seeing noone seems to do to the same thing. So, for peace of mind before filling them with hot liquid I just want some sort of proof they are safe. Boiling wort will cause serious burns, and if you have it hoisted up by the neck as they suggest and it gives way, good bye to your lower half.


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## Nullnvoid (18/9/20)

kadmium said:


> I would have a stock of 10 for emergencies when I need to cut a brew day short and decide to no chill, but I would want some evidence they are safe. I have little ones running around, and those things take a long time to cool down. I also am a bit suspect on the safety of them, seeing noone seems to do to the same thing. So, for peace of mind before filling them with hot liquid I just want some sort of proof they are safe. Boiling wort will cause serious burns, and if you have it hoisted up by the neck as they suggest and it gives way, good bye to your lower half.



The All Inn Brewing Co FWK kits come in a bladder I believe.

As for the kegland ones, I have some to try! Dubious on holding the neck to fill.

Also, my partner made a good point yesterday, all the syrups for softdrinks used to come in a bladder back in the day.


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## DU99 (18/9/20)

the bladders are bit of a pain emptying into fermenter,lost a litre,but sorted with assistance.and wine still comes in cacks


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## GrumpyPaul (18/9/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> No worries at all. Well seeing as we have some interest and we got some private message about this product we have ordered these and they are going to take a few weeks to get made up for us. The bladder suppliers do not normally make this screw cap so we had to order a couple thousand just so they would make them especially for us with this closure type. They will looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey @KegLand-com-au 

Happy for you to be involved in the discussion - but perhaps it might be a good idea to start a thread in the sponsors area if you want to promote/sell them.

GP


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## wide eyed and legless (18/9/20)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Hey @KegLand-com-au
> 
> Happy for you to be involved in the discussion - but perhaps it might be a good idea to start a thread in the sponsors area if you want to promote/sell them.
> 
> GP


I was wondering when the sponsors rules was going to apply, better late than never.


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## GrumpyPaul (18/9/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I was wondering when the sponsors rules was going to apply, better late than never.


I hadn't seen this one until today. If you see something you think the mods should be aware of just click on report so it gets brought to out attention


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## Ferment8 (19/9/20)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Hey @KegLand-com-au
> 
> Happy for you to be involved in the discussion - but perhaps it might be a good idea to start a thread in the sponsors area if you want to promote/sell them.
> 
> GP


Considering the discussions evolved from the original post i would think this whole thread is perfectly fine. Let's not get a bit gun shy.


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## wide eyed and legless (19/9/20)

My suggestion initially was to let sponsors go toe to toe with rules on behavior, which could happen in an open thread. But with sponsors using their own thread, and no crossing the line keeps it tidy.


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