# Making Wine - Anyone Interested ?



## frederic (5/5/13)

I've been having a go at making wine for 5 years now and whilst is getting along just fine, it's time to get together with like minded people and start to perfect the art.

A relatively cheap process but hugely rewarding when you produce that aromatic and flavoursome wine that energises you to the next harvest season. Great fun travelling to the vineyards once a year and picking your own grapes - a guarantee of a good result.

Love to chat or liase with anyone wishing to extend their wine prowess and passion beyond just buying a bottle. Have a go and impress yourself. You'll be supprised how close you get to a good quatlitywine .


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## MashPaddler (5/5/13)

frederic said:


> I've been having a go at making wine for 5 years now and whilst is getting along just fine, it's time to get together with like minded people and start to perfect the art.
> 
> A relatively cheap process but hugely rewarding when you produce that aromatic and flavoursome wine that energises you to the next harvest season. Great fun travelling to the vineyards once a year and picking your own grapes - a guarantee of a good result.
> 
> Love to chat or liase with anyone wishing to extend their wine prowess and passion beyond just buying a bottle. Have a go and impress yourself. You'll be supprised how close you get to a good quatlitywine .


I'm at the equipped and ready to press stage, but missed the picking season this year with too much else going on. Are you making whites or reds or both? The quality of the grapes in Canberra is really good, there is a great granite belt around murrambateman (cool climate shiraz, pinot and riesling country) that produces some excellent wines. I have my press, a couple of fridges, a filter and food grade pump set up ready to go, some neat wine bottle tops that can be reused, along with the relevant additives etc and can borrow the de-stemmer from a local brew shop so planning to do a batch next year. Which have you found the easiest to kick off with?


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## frederic (5/5/13)

MashPaddler said:


> Are you making whites or reds or both? around murrambateman (cool climate shiraz, pinot and riesling country) that produces some excellent wines. I have my press, a couple of fridges, a filter and food grade pump set up ready to go, some neat wine bottle tops that can be reused, along with the relevant additives etc and can borrow the de-stemmer from a local brew shop so planning to do a batch next year.
> Which have you found the easiest to kick off with?


I'm attempting both reds and whites. First year I did a Shiraz from Mudgee and a Viognier (but small quantites). Last year some Merlot and this year Sangiovese and a little Shiraz.

Lucky to get a small amount of Riesling from Southern Highlands which is just finishing off fermentation. However, I lost out on some Sauvignon Blanc and Cabernet also from Sthn Highlands due to low yields.

My first Shiraz was quite OK. Not an award winner but a good drinker. So I'm hoping to improve the processes with each vintage. The biggest battle for me is getting growers to commit to letting me have some grapes. Because the quantities are low, it;s either not worth their trouble and the dollar return is no incentive.

What sort of fridges do you have. Love to get some myself but unsure what type to get. Where about's are you located - right in Canberra or on the outskirts ?. As you can see I'm in the Parramatta area so that's a good 3 Hrs.

Where have you been sourcing your fruit thus far - are the growers approachable and willing to give some stats on the grape varieties etc.


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## Golani51 (5/5/13)

I am very interested to get started. I have access to the gear and the shiraz grapes are available at the moment. If anyone would be interested in making some wine, I should have free (or just about free) use of a destemmer and press. Grapes work out to be around $2.10/kg, including the $0.10/kg home delivery fee. Let me know ASAP if interested. 

Please let me know of any good Shiraz instructions.

R


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## frederic (6/5/13)

Golani, love your enthuisiasm. A pity your in Melbourne. I buy a few supplies from Winequip in Reservoir. Nice guys, always willing to offer sound advice - fair prices also.

I'm the last person to offer advice on Shiraz or any other variety. A few things that I've tried and learnt from include pressing at around SG - 1.030 and allowing fermentation to complete in your secondary vessel - results in a fresh and fruitier (not sweet) wine.

Rack the wine off the gross lees(bulk sediment) between 24 - 48 hours after completion of fermentation into a clean container. And always ensure the containers are topped right up to clear any air head space. Finally, ensure you add the right amount of Potassium Metabisulphite upfront and throughout the matuaration period. But be *very careful *to not to add too much.

Good luck and I hope this helps a little.

And, any *Sydney guys *out there that would like to start off or are well and truely into it ?. Let me know, there plenty to learn and lots of reward. I know I've learnt a lot from watching and speaking to those that have years of experience.


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## GalBrew (6/5/13)

frederic said:


> I've been having a go at making wine for 5 years now and whilst is getting along just fine, it's time to get together with like minded people and start to perfect the art.
> 
> A relatively cheap process but hugely rewarding when you produce that aromatic and flavoursome wine that energises you to the next harvest season. Great fun travelling to the vineyards once a year and picking your own grapes - a guarantee of a good result.
> 
> Love to chat or liase with anyone wishing to extend their wine prowess and passion beyond just buying a bottle. Have a go and impress yourself. You'll be supprised how close you get to a good quatlitywine .


I think you should document your 'vintage' for us non-wineos here at AHB. I would be interested to watch from the comfort of my PC. :beer:


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## frederic (6/5/13)

GalBrew said:


> I think you should document your 'vintage' for us non-wineos here at AHB. I would be interested to watch from the comfort of my PC. :beer:



Well not much to tell so far.

Currently working on a vat of Sangiovese, one of Shiraz and a blend of Sangiovese and Shiraz.

Also a small vat of Riesling.

Just finishing off fermentation of a small quantity of Cabernet Sauvignon and Mourvedre. Early days yet, but all proceeding OK. Will get a better idea around July

Oh, a small vat of Rose', which looks good. I expect to bottle (and drink) in mid July all being well - fingers crossed.


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## tiprya (6/5/13)

Hmn. I've had the idea for a half-wine/half-beer experiment. Thinking a golden belgian with some chardonnay juice perhaps.

What options do we have to get wine grape juice in Sydney?


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## frederic (6/5/13)

tiprya said:


> Hmn. I've had the idea for a half-wine/half-beer experiment. Thinking a golden belgian with some chardonnay juice perhaps.
> 
> What options do we have to get wine grape juice in Sydney?


A bold brew I'm sure. I'll stick to getting the wine under hand first, then maybe go wild and Crazy. Although I do like a good beer and stylish and mature red, separate of course.

I believe you can buy juice in season I think, cost appears to be around $3.50 to $4.00 per litre.


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## tiprya (6/5/13)

Where would I go looking for that? Wine growers directly?


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## Robbo2234 (6/5/13)

I would love to have a go at this...

can you make GOOD wine at home? I suppose its all about oak aging.


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## Rowy (6/5/13)

If you enjoy picking grapes you've NEVER done it for a living. Particularly with vines planted by a 5ft tall Italian bloke 50yrs ago. At 6ft 5........it was a helluva way to earn a quid! I drive past new vineyards now and see those vines trained high and think to myself if only........


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## hoppy2B (6/5/13)

I made 120 litres of red wine this year using 3 different yeast strains. Some of it is very nice.


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## frederic (7/5/13)

hoppy2B said:


> I made 120 litres of red wine this year using 3 different yeast strains. Some of it is very nice.


What variety of red grapes did you nake. And which yeasts did you use. Which yeast did you think gave the best result.

Did you blend the resultant wine.


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## frederic (7/5/13)

Robbo2234 said:


> I would love to have a go at this...
> 
> can you make GOOD wine at home? I suppose its all about oak aging.


So Robbo, what do you need to start.

Do you have any equipment, storage containers etc. How keen are you to have a go ?.


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## MashPaddler (7/5/13)

frederic said:


> I'm attempting both reds and whites. First year I did a Shiraz from Mudgee and a Viognier (but small quantites). Last year some Merlot and this year Sangiovese and a little Shiraz.
> 
> Lucky to get a small amount of Riesling from Southern Highlands which is just finishing off fermentation. However, I lost out on some Sauvignon Blanc and Cabernet also from Sthn Highlands due to low yields.
> 
> ...


You aren't using fridges at the moment? I am surprised you are attempting wine without temperature control, particularly a white without refrigeration - My two large homebrewing fridges with temp control is what I will be using. To all interested, I suggest getting some books on the topic, the best one I picked up was 'Making Good Wine' by Bryce Rankine. It's not rocket science, but it is very much a science, and given vintage happens only once a year, the research is well worth doing.


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## frederic (7/5/13)

MashPaddler said:


> My two large homebrewing fridges with temp control is what I will be using.


So what type of fridges are these ?. Is there a specific brand or style of fridge that better suited.

Last year I made a small batch of Viognier which turned out very well. I managed with a spare fridge. I also have a cellar which keeps a constant temperature. Works OK but refrigeration would be better for larger volumes.

You obviously have a good set up for your whites.


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## Robbo2234 (7/5/13)

frederic said:


> So Robbo, what do you need to start.
> 
> Do you have any equipment, storage containers etc. How keen are you to have a go ?.


Yeah I am interested in having a go, depends on price.

I have no equipment / skills for wine so a total noob!


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## frederic (7/5/13)

Robbo2234 said:


> Yeah I am interested in having a go, depends on price.
> 
> I have no equipment / skills for wine so a total noob!


If you are really interested you need to be realistic about your minimum investment. Once set up, the ongoing costs are virtually limited to consumable products.

I'd start to target no less than 35L of wine, which is about 50 bottles. Around $250 will get you some storage vessels, small essentials, necessary consumables etc. For this level, consumables might be $50pa.

However, you need a crusher and a press. OK. you can get away without a crusher, but a small press is a must. If you buy well 2nd hand, you might get that for say $250.

It all depends on how serious and enthusiasic you are about making your own batch of wine.

For me it's not about saving money, but more so about the process and the passion of producing something with your own hands.


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## manticle (7/5/13)

I tried to set myself up for a while - bought a 2nd hand grape crusher and eventually a small fruit press. However I don't have a car so the idea of getting out to vineyards for picking leftovers was logistically problematic. Missed about 3 grape harvest seasons in a row, moved to a smaller place and sold off the press and crusher.

Likely to stick to beer and cider for the moment but I do have more than a passing interest. There used to be a few winemakers who frequented this forum - some in a more professional capacity - Muggus, Polkobinguy, kirem and probably a couple of others. I think Dr Smurto works in the wine industry (in a yeast related field if memory serves) and has also done a few batches of home made so you might get some good info hunting up some of their threads.

Greg L possibly too?

Here's a decent link to some of the past and present winemakers on the forum:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/31935-show-us-your-wine/


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## frederic (7/5/13)

manticle said:



> I tried to set myself up for a while - bought a 2nd hand grape crusher and eventually a small fruit press. However I don't have a car so the idea of getting out to vineyards for picking leftovers was logistically problematic. Missed about 3 grape harvest seasons in a row, moved to a smaller place and sold off the press and crusher.
> 
> Likely to stick to beer and cider for the moment but I do have more than a passing interest.
> Greg L possibly too?


Well it's real pity you've given up the winemaking. Even a greater pity you're located in Fairfield VIC as opposed to NSW as I dion't live too far from our Fairfield.

I'm really keen to foster some quenching interest from Sydneyits.

Winemaking is more process than bookwork application. So it really helps to be with someone that's done it plenty times before. Once you've seen, your on your way.


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## manticle (7/5/13)

Not given up - I'm only young. Just put back on the shelf for a bit due to practicality.

I was considering trialling a wine kit - while that goes against most of my brewing and other practices it might be good just to do one to get the inspiration back again. I'd also happily team up with someone to pick, crush, press, bottle etc and split a batch of proper stuff. Not afraid of hard work or getting my hands dirty - just don't have the equipment or the space for those bits.

Anyone local who wants to split a batch of grapes and the costs (say hiring destemmer, crusher etc from GG, petrol costs) as well as the physical work but can offer the space for the work and the drive to the vineyard - shout out.


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## MashPaddler (7/5/13)

frederic said:


> So what type of fridges are these ?. Is there a specific brand or style of fridge that better suited.
> 
> Last year I made a small batch of Viognier which turned out very well. I managed with a spare fridge. I also have a cellar which keeps a constant temperature. Works OK but refrigeration would be better for larger volumes.
> 
> You obviously have a good set up for your whites.


Just large fisher and paekel standard fridges with STC 1000 temp controllers wired up to run hot and cold to keep the temp wherever I want it, along with a brew belt which I hang from a hook. Cool, spare fridge and cellar sounds a good proxy. The reading I have done for whites shows temp control is the biggest issue. Re your comment about books, there is a standard process, but then specifics for particular grapes, so I learnt loads from it. I guess it's just like brewing, I read voraciously for a few years but nowdays only hit the books when doing a brew I haven't run before. There is a winery in Canberra called Lark Hill which do their reds in open fermenters in a shed, so reds are all good but yes, the whites are a delicate creature for best results. I will do two small vintages next season to get some practice, a shiraz and a riesling.


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## frederic (7/5/13)

So what are "STC 1000 temp controllers" and what is a "Brew Belt". Sorry for being a bit thick, but I'm curious about how they can be adapted in my processes.

So where are you planning on getting your Shiraz and Riesling from ?. And incidently are they open to small batches such as 200Kg of each variety.

I'm interested to know how the Canberra belt vigniorons approach Amateur winemakers about suppling fruit.


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## MashPaddler (7/5/13)

use the search function on this site, loads of threads on both. STC 1000 temperature controllers allow you to run the fridge as your cooling unit and a heat source such as a homebrew heat belt or heatpad (to put near but not on or under the fermenter) to heat the fridge, giving you complete temp control over the environment in the fridge. Accurate temp control enables you to dial in the best temp for the yeast, cold crash to drop the yeast out of suspension etc. Keg king among others do commercial units if you are not partial to a project on the weekend with the STC. After speaking with a local winemaker here (and buying a couple of decent cases over a long tasting) he gave me a couple of contacts. Probably best to make your own approaches, but so long as you are prepared to pay a fair price for the fruit, and approach them with respect - remember these guys generally do 4 years of wine science and then training, you should be fine with most vineyards I would have thought. Go the smaller wineries in your area. Also there is an excess grape site where wineries sell their excess to need crops, loads on there at the right times of year - I'll google it and post the link.


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## hoppy2B (7/5/13)

frederic said:


> What variety of red grapes did you nake. And which yeasts did you use. Which yeast did you think gave the best result.
> 
> Did you blend the resultant wine.


The grapes were mostly Shiraz and Grenache with a small amount of a white wine grape named Foxtail. There was also a small percentage of red and white table grapes with very large berries in the mix. The white grapes are supposed to highlight the red colour but must be fermented together.
One yeast I tried for the first time was ICV-D21, which produces wine with a high level of volatile acid which can be used for blending to freshen up other wines, but I don't recommend it as its not very nice. Seems to be a good analogue for WY1010.
For good fruit flavour and colour with red wine I recommend using BDX, BM45, ICV-D80 or ICV-D254. If you want something with a lot of body use SN9. You could add a little SN9 fermented wine to wine fermented with one of the above if need be, particularly if you are planning on cellaring the wine for many years.


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## frederic (8/5/13)

hoppy2B said:


> .
> For good fruit flavour and colour with red wine I recommend using BDX, BM45, ICV-D80 or ICV-D254. If you want something with a lot of body use SN9. You could add a little SN9 fermented wine to wine fermented with one of the above if need be, particularly if you are planning on cellaring the wine for many years.


Which yeasts did you use for the Grenache and was it a recommended yeast for that Variety. Where did you source each yeast strain.

Were you able to do a side be side comparison with say the Grenache and Shiraz using 2 different yeasts for each variety and if so, what was your conclusion and notable differences.


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## treefiddy (8/5/13)

manticle said:


> Not given up - I'm only young. Just put back on the shelf for a bit due to practicality.
> 
> I was considering trialling a wine kit - while that goes against most of my brewing and other practices it might be good just to do one to get the inspiration back again. I'd also happily team up with someone to pick, crush, press, bottle etc and split a batch of proper stuff. Not afraid of hard work or getting my hands dirty - just don't have the equipment or the space for those bits.
> 
> Anyone local who wants to split a batch of grapes and the costs (say hiring destemmer, crusher etc from GG, petrol costs) as well as the physical work but can offer the space for the work and the drive to the vineyard - shout out.


I may take you up on that offer in a few years.

I'm in much the same boat apart from the previous ownership of equipment.


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## Greg.L (10/5/13)

I make my own wine from my own fruit. You need to worry about the fruit more than yeast. The influence of yeast is pretty small.
This year was a great vintage in nsw but the harvest is finished now. I have 100l in glass demijohns going through mlf - Shiraz Cabernet. The quality is good. I stomp with my feet and press with my cider press after 5days on skins in an open fermenter. I have a cellar for temperature control.


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## frederic (10/5/13)

Greg.L said:


> I make my own wine from my own fruit. You need to worry about the fruit more than yeast. The influence of yeast is pretty small.
> This year was a great vintage in nsw but the harvest is finished now. I have 100l in glass demijohns going through mlf - Shiraz Cabernet. The quality is good. I stomp with my feet and press with my cider press after 5days on skins in an open fermenter. I have a cellar for temperature control.


Well Greg, at last a tradionalist at heart. Nothing wrong with a little tinea in the juice - adds character and a little funky attribute. I'm going to give the feet ago next vintage.

But seriously, why do you say the fruit is paramount over the yeast. Presumably the quality of grapes is vital in the outcome ?.

Is your cellar under ground, although at Bathurst it gets pretty cool about now anyway. Incidently, are there growers at or around Bathurst that are willing to sell grapes in small batches to solo amatuer winemakers?. Really keen to know.

I'm impressed that you are a New South Welshman and neighbour.

On ya Mate.


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## frederic (10/5/13)

MashPaddler said:


> STC 1000 temperature controllers allow you to run the fridge as your cooling unit and a heat source such as a homebrew heat belt or heatpad (to put near but not on or under the fermenter) to heat the fridge, giving you complete temp control over the environment in the fridge.


Thanks for the tip. I checked this out and looks like a goer for my intended setup. Is this a DIY project or should I get a sarkie to do it ?.
I'm battling with an old fridge at present. Not very big so I can only accomodate 2 x 20L carboys at present. Not ideal so I'm researching a better setup for 2014 vintage. I'd really like to cater for about 100L. Anyone got suggestions on considerations or options for refrigeration.


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## frederic (10/5/13)

Greg.L said:


> I make my own wine from my own fruit.
> This year was a great vintage in nsw but the harvest is finished now. I have 100l in glass demijohns going through mlf - Shiraz Cabernet. The quality is good.


Well done on you 100L of Shiraz Cabernet. Keep us posted on how it's progressing.

Just wondering about your MLF progress. Is this natural or did you inoculate with MLF culture ?. I also have a small batch going through MLF at present. I'm a bit concerned about the SO2 level since I understand that when you add SO2 it will stop the MLF process from continuing. I hav'nt added any SO2 since my crush. Interested in your thoughts.


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## Greg.L (10/5/13)

Most of the difference between wines is the fruit. The yeast you need to be an expert to tell.
I am away so don't know how it is going my cellar is underground. So2 will stop mlf but gets bound during fermentation. I use a cultured mlf.


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## Deep End (11/5/13)

On a whole different topic but vaguely relevant. I bottled my apricot wine and blackberry wine yesterday. Both were my first attempts at wine.

I was fairly unimpressed with the apricot wine on the palate, and I dont imagine it will get much better with age. I pulverised the pulp too much and the wine is a little hazy, and it just didnt taste to flash.

However the blackberry wine, my second attempt, sourced from local blackberries grown on the side of hill next to a few vineyards in the area is 10 times the wine. On tasting the leftovers from the demi I was quite surprised to get something not unlike some cheap bottled reds I have drunk over the years. Hopefully it will get better with 12 months aging.

Both were very basic fruit wines that have never seen oak and are unlikely too. But I'm fairly happy with atleast one of my efforts. I think one of those mini barrels would be an interesting thing to have to age some of the products in. Anyway just chucked my 2 cents in on wine making.


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## Greg.L (12/5/13)

It is too late now to source grapes. In bathurst mark renzaglia at renzaglia wines knows all the local vineyards so if you ring him Feb/March next year he may be able to help.


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## punkin (12/5/13)

Deep End said:


> On a whole different topic but vaguely relevant. I bottled my apricot wine and blackberry wine yesterday. Both were my first attempts at wine.
> 
> I was fairly unimpressed with the apricot wine on the palate, and I dont imagine it will get much better with age. I pulverised the pulp too much and the wine is a little hazy, and it just didnt taste to flash.
> 
> ...



Oak dominoes or sticks are a very good alternative to barrelling. Many wineries use them.

I stock them for the steam collectors.


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## hoppy2B (12/5/13)

frederic said:


> Which yeasts did you use for the Grenache and was it a recommended yeast for that Variety. Where did you source each yeast strain.
> 
> Were you able to do a side be side comparison with say the Grenache and Shiraz using 2 different yeasts for each variety and if so, what was your conclusion and notable differences.


Chucked all the grapes in together. Fermented 50 litres with SN9, 40 litres with ICV-D80 and 30 litres with ICV-D21. Of these I consider ICV-D80 wine to be superior at this point in time. Yeast strain makes a massive difference.
ICV-D80 Deep violet magenta red colour and excellent concentrated fruit flavours, with an emphasis on berries. Soft on the palate with very mild tannins. The tannins will probably show more as it dries a little over the coming months. Might be why its recommended for barrel ageing as tannins are the main effect of ageing in a barrel.
ICV-D21 and SN9 These wines are lesser in colour with a brownish tint and a flavour which is very much sherry like. ICV-D21 has a high noticeable level of both acid and tannins. SN9 has a much rounder flavour with low acid and tannins. Neither seem to have much in the way of fruit evident. The sherry character dominates.
I'll probably blend a bit of the D21 into the SN9 and put it away for 5 years. In my opinion it requires a good ageing. 
I have 50 litres of a red from 2010 which was fermented with K1. I'll look into it at the end of winter and am thinking I'll probably need to add a little SN9 to it. K1 makes a dry wine and in my experience dry wine isn't overly suitable for long ageing.
My old man has always made dry wine. He recently told me he kept some for 10 years once and it was undrinkable. He also likes the D80.


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## frederic (14/5/13)

hoppy2B said:


> Chucked all the grapes in together. Fermented 50 litres with SN9, 40 litres with ICV-D80 and 30 litres with ICV-D21. Of these I consider ICV-D80 wine to be superior at this point in time. Yeast strain makes a massive difference.
> ICV-D80 Deep violet magenta red colour and excellent concentrated fruit flavours, with an emphasis on berries. Soft on the palate with very mild tannins. The tannins will probably show more as it dries a little over the coming months. Might be why its recommended for barrel ageing as tannins are the main effect of ageing in a barrel.
> ICV-D21 and SN9 These wines are lesser in colour with a brownish tint and a flavour which is very much sherry like. ICV-D21 has a high noticeable level of both acid and tannins. SN9 has a much rounder flavour with low acid and tannins. Neither seem to have much in the way of fruit evident. The sherry character dominates.
> I'll probably blend a bit of the D21 into the SN9 and put it away for 5 years. In my opinion it requires a good ageing.
> ...


Thanks for the insight on yeast performance. I wouldn't have thought that yeast strain could affect the ultimate colour of the wine to a point that there are obvious differences after fermentation. I'll certainly note ICV-D80 for next year.

Do you allowe fermentation to fully complete prior to pressing or do you press prior to completion and allow fermentation to complete after pressing. I believe this process can result in a fresh and fruitier wine.

How do you store your wine for maturation - barrels, glass or stainless steel containers.


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## Airgead (14/5/13)

Brownish colour and sherry character is more likely oxidisation rather than anything to do with the yeast...

Cheers
Dave


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## scon (14/5/13)

I'm definitely interested in winemaking. I don't have any winemaking gear yet, but I'm in the Canberra region and can supply a car (all-wheel drive) and I've got a big shed for brewing.

Would be up for a trip to a vineyard maybe next year when everything's in season if people want to organise a trip.


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## hoppy2B (14/5/13)

frederic said:


> Thanks for the insight on yeast performance. I wouldn't have thought that yeast strain could affect the ultimate colour of the wine to a point that there are obvious differences after fermentation. I'll certainly note ICV-D80 for next year.
> 
> Do you allowe fermentation to fully complete prior to pressing or do you press prior to completion and allow fermentation to complete after pressing. I believe this process can result in a fresh and fruitier wine.
> 
> How do you store your wine for maturation - barrels, glass or stainless steel containers.


D80 is certainly a good yeast in my opinion. The wine is delicious. 
I crush and add yeast straight away and leave it stand for 3 days and then press. It finishes its fermentation in either a stainless keg or more usually a 50 litre demijohn. Won't be using the keg in future because I get a lot of yeast when racking off because of the shape of the keg.
Shouldn't be any oxidation occurring the way I do it. 
The Vintners Harvest brochure mentions stuff about colour retention and yeast.
I obtained my D80 through Winequip here in South Australia. If you visit their site and follow the links to the yeast you will also get good descriptions on yeast by clicking the individual yeast and reading up on it. Colour retention is often mentioned when describing wine yeast characteristics.
D80 produces wine with a lovely ruby red colour.


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## frederic (14/5/13)

hoppy2B said:


> D80 is certainly a good yeast in my opinion. The wine is delicious.
> I crush and add yeast straight away and leave it stand for 3 days and then press. It finishes its fermentation in either a stainless keg or more usually a 50 litre demijohn. Won't be using the keg in future because I get a lot of yeast when racking off because of the shape of the keg.


Wow, 3 days on skins fermenting. That seems like it's only half way through fermentation. Any reason why you have adopted this approach. I normally allow fermentation on the skins between 5 -7 days depending on the rate of fermentation. Although I am targeting a real dry and full bodied red wine. Maybe I should change my approach.

I also get some supplies from Winequip Melbourne - I'll chat to them about D80 as well.

So what was your Shiraz/Grenache blend - was it 50/50 or something else ?. 

I just love Grenache wines, whether 100% or in a blend. About 5 years ago I sampled some excellant wines from Twin Bays at Yankalilla when it was owned by Dr Bruno Giorgio. Adsolutely outstanding. My favourite was the Grenache. Regretably, he could not sell me any as his stocks were just about depleated & he wished to retain the rest for himself. However, I did enjoy the bulk of a bottle over dinner.

You certainly live in a great part of the world, the Fleurieu Peninsula. Makes me want to pack up and visit real soon.


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## hoppy2B (14/5/13)

So what was your Shiraz/Grenache blend - was it 50/50 or something else ?. 


Yeah it would have been about 50/50 but also had maybe 5% Foxtail white wine grapes and maybe 5% large red table grapes and 5% large white table grapes in the mix.


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## Greg.L (14/5/13)

In small volumes the time on skins can be less because the extraction is better but 4 days would be the minimum. Wineries usually do at least 6 days. I think it is better to press with a little bit of fermentation left to protect against oxidation. Sherry flavour is definitely oxidation, that is how they make sherry.


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## drsmurto (15/5/13)

Sherry flavour plus brown colour of wine is definitely what you expect for an oxidised wine.

No winemaking for me this year. Thankfully i still have a case left from the 2010 vintage (Sangiovese/Cabernet/Grenache). Had a bottle last night with pizza and it is aging beautifully.


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## frederic (6/10/13)

As Summer is nearly here the vines are blooming and the gape and wine season will soon be amongst us.

I'm gearing up for the 2014 harvest and stocking up on the essential supplies in preparation.

For anyone keen on becoming a better home winemaker, here's a good contact point for anyone in and around Sydney.The Sydney Amateur Winemakers Club are geared up to tutor anyone interested in making wine from home. For just $20 you get heaps of guidance and support with 10 meetings a year and a bunch of veteran winemakers as well. They evan cover beers and ciders.

Can't go wrong I reckon. Best to learn from those that have done it all before.

Check out the website www.sydneyawc.com


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## The_Radelaide_Hills (14/1/16)

manticle said:


> Missed about 3 grape harvest seasons in a row,
> Likely to stick to beer and cider for the moment


You can make wine out of any fruit you can get hold of. I am gonna try blackberry wine next month.


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## GalBrew (22/2/16)

Well I'm not sure if anyone is paying attention to this thread anymore, but I am getting my delivery of Heathcote shiraz grapes on the 27th (hopefully). I will attempt to make a small batch of some drinkable (again hopefully) table wine. I will try and document the process as best I can and post it here (......hopefully). :icon_cheers:


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## yankinoz (22/2/16)

Heretic! Seriously, good luck with it, but aren't there Aussie winemaking forums?


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## TimT (22/2/16)

Personally 'brewing' for me is a term that encompasses winemaking as well.


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## TimT (22/2/16)

We've only done one classic wine - purple grapes crushed in the press, juice to about five L. I did it as I recall on the ol' standard champagne yeast. The grapes were a bit overripe and I'm not entirely sure what happened in the fermentation as the wine is now oddly yellow-brown rather than a satisfying deep purple-red - maybe a result of oxidisation(?) Or something else? (They were apparently Grenache grapes). 

Anyway I've still got one bottle of this. The wine has its good days and bad days - really hot days in summer the phenols are just overwhelmingly unpleasant; other days it tastes quite nice but still a wee bit too sharp. I think basically we drank it far too early and it would have matured and got more pleasant and consistent as it got older. 

I want more winemaking threads! More! More! More! It's a huge part of brewing and it would really benefit the beer and mead and cider brewers hereabouts to have feedback on it.


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## GalBrew (22/2/16)

yankinoz said:


> Heretic! Seriously, good luck with it, but aren't there Aussie winemaking forums?


Well you have to do it at least once right? On the topic of Aussie winemaking forums I have not been able to find anything of any value. If anyone has any hot tips I'd like to know. I found a lot of good info in the American forums but no useful local content, which is a shame as I am sure that there is a lot of local knowledge.


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## GalBrew (22/2/16)

TimT said:


> I want more winemaking threads! More! More! More! It's a huge part of brewing and it would really benefit the beer and mead and cider brewers hereabouts to have feedback on it.


Agreed!!


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## Bribie G (22/2/16)

Fruity Lexia ... mmmmmmmmm


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## jewwie (22/2/16)

TimT, I'm with you - we need more "other" brewing forums here in Australia. I've found heaps (as I'm sure you have) USA based forums on the interweb but it's difficult to find any like minded people closer to home.

I've been beer brewing for around 20 years and now in the last year been experimenting with mead. I keep bees and had never heard of mead prior, now I'm hooked.

I've got a pyment nearing the end of primary in the brewing fridge - grapes (actually juice) were sauvignon blanc and were sourced from a mates vineyard in Ballendean. I'm very keen to see how this turns out - I have not found any reference to pyment anywhere in australia.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.


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## jewwie (22/2/16)

Sorry, Galbrew, I meant to mention you also. Have you got anything on the go?


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## TimT (22/2/16)

Re: finding wine specific forums. You might try on Facebook - I'm a member of a few brewing forums on there, none wine specific (though I'm on a few that focus on cider and mead). And of course nothing stopping you just starting one up, it's very easy on FB. Maybe a lot of the wine brewers are a bit old fogeyish and still don't bother much with the interwebs!


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## seehuusen (24/2/16)

Great read and thread dig 

My wife is about to start making her first fruit wine, and looks to me for advice because i brew beer. I'm finding it a little hard to get a concrete grasp on the general steps to do, e.g. with beer - mash, boil, cool, ferment, dry hop addition, crash chill, bottle...

For wine i have found the methods less clear, would any of you be able to steer me in the right direction please?

Cheers,
Martin


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## TimT (24/2/16)

Well it's really like brewing only much simpler. 

No mash. 

No hopping. 

Usually no boil. 

You just have to get the juice out of the fruit, how exactly depends on each fruit. 

With grapes, crush it out. Then ferment. 

With berries, probably crush, though I reckon you could probably just chuck them into the fermenter with water and sugar and the juice and character would leach out over time. 

Many fruit will give you plenty of flavour and juice but the gravity may not be too high, so you will have to adjust accordingly with a sugar solution. In this case you're making a country wine. In country wines you dissolve a shitload of sugar in water and then add the fruit after. 

If most of the sugar/sweet comes from additions of honey, then you are making a mead and should treat accordingly. Fruit meads (melomels) seem to develop rather well, I think because the yeast gets nutrient from the fruit.

Once your wine has fermented, age. Age improves us all (hopefully!)


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## GalBrew (24/2/16)

jewwie said:


> Sorry, Galbrew, I meant to mention you also. Have you got anything on the go?


I will be crushing my shiraz grapes on Sunday.


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## seehuusen (25/2/16)

Thanks very much Tim 

So if my wife made up the required sugar enriched water, added frozen fruits, stirred that together and added Lallemand Lalvin EC-1118 yeast and put the lot into my fermentation fridge at say 20C, I'd be on the right track?
After fermentation finished, add bentonite and crash chilled for a week or so. Then do I bottle it at that stage, or do I need to siphon off and do multiple filter/Crash Chill processes?

Thanks in advance,
Martin


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## Airgead (25/2/16)

You can bottle straight away and bottle age but I find that country wine benefits from some bulk aging. Rack it into a clean glass vessel and age in bulk (with or without oak chips) for a few months. Then bottle. 

Should be no need to filter. The bulk aging should cause it do drop very clear.


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## TimT (25/2/16)

I generally don't even bother with temperature control when I do a wine or a mead. There's a lot of simple sugar in them and they have a high fermentability. I find at my place, indoors, temps don't go above 20 degrees often. The only thing to remember is, because a wine is generally much higher in gravity than beer, it will take longer to ferment; and the yeast will additionally benefit from some time to clear things up. My method isn't really as fine tuned as Airgead's! But anyway, as I think I said before, age is the key. In a few months to a year your wine may go from having a nasty rocket-fuel taste (methyls and phenols and fusels and all that weird shit) to having a beautiful character, as good as or better than anything you can buy in the shops. There should be plenty of country wine recipes online, my friend - have at it!


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## Airgead (25/2/16)

My method is really simple. I use it for all meads, melomel and country wines. 

Make up your sugar solution (sugar for a country wine, honey for a mead) to the correct OG. Add yeast and nutrient and ferment till nearly done. I don't bother with temp control. Add the fruit and allow fermentation to finish. I find that adding fruit after the initial intense primary fermentation keeps more of the fruit charater. I may be deluding myself though. 

Leave the wine on the fruit for 1-2 weeks. Any more than this and I find that you tend to get rotten fruit flavours coming through as the pulp floats on top and oxidises/attracts mould etc. Rack into a clean vessel and bulk age (I tend to add a few oak dominoes at this point). I'll usually bulk age for 3-6 months until the level of oak is right and the wine starts to mellow out. It should also be brilliantly clear. 

Bottle and age some more. 

Drink when it's nice. I usually bottle a few 375ml bottles to act as samplers. Try one Avery month or so till its good then drink the rest. 

I bulk age for a few reasons... First, I tend to do a lot of meads and mead throws a lot of sediment for some reason. I prefer to get that out in the bulk aging vessel and leave it behind the when bottling rather than have it happen in the bottle which can spoil the presentation. The second reason is that it takes less space to bulk age in a carboy than in bottles. 

Cheers
Dave


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## wynnum1 (25/2/16)

If high temperature summer weather would be better to cool down .


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## seehuusen (25/2/16)

Thanks very much for this information and methods, this should get us started with the first few batches.
Regarding OG, I just plotted that into Beersmith, and found for a 10L batch, I'd need about 2Kg for a 12.5% wine. Obviously the fruit will add a bit extra sugar, so I'll account for that.
I think I'll still be fermenting in a fridge, because of the 30+ QLD weather 

Super keen to try out grapes at a later stage too, seems like some good wine could be made!

Cheers,
Martin


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## seehuusen (25/2/16)

One more question please, for a country wine, whats the rule of thumb on how much fruit to add?
10% of volume? E.g. 1kg for 10L.

Cheers,
Martin


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## TimT (25/2/16)

It really depends on the fruit you use. Remember what you're doing is piling a fruit on top of a heap of table sugar; in beer terms you're just adding an adjunct to an adjunct, so the old rules about '10% of adjunct' really don't apply.

What fruit are you going to use? Google around for the name - say, 'plum country wine' or 'plum wine' or whatever - and you should be able to come up with some usable recipes. 

Here's an extremely simple windowsill wine - ( you ferment it on a warm spot like the windowsill!) - that might give you ideas. (And the thread I started about it).


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## Airgead (26/2/16)

My rule of thumb is around 1kg of fruit per 5l batch size. If I'm doing something new I'll start there and adjust from there.


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## wynnum1 (26/2/16)

Plant some mulberry trees they make a good wine problem is the wildlife getting them first and there is also those who have silkworms who need the leaves.


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## seehuusen (1/3/16)

Thanks again, I'll start off with the 1kg/5l rule of thumb, that was actually the number i had in my head.

Wife wants to do 2 wines, one plumb and the other raspberry/apple


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## Airgead (1/3/16)

Raspberry is lovely. Never had much success with plum though. I find it goes quite bitter and nasty. Whether it's the type of plum I am using I'm not sure. You want to use the sweetest plum possible. 

I also find that for some reason plum wine oxidises like a bastard. The only wins I have ever had a problem with have been plum.


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## TimT (1/3/16)

I made a plum mead that seemed to come out alright, partly because I think the plum acted as nutrient for the yeast - in addition to some ginger that I added during the boil. The mead matured relatively quickly and was very pleasant. 

Recently I had a Japanese plum wine that was very pleasant. I don't know about the details of fermentation but one thing I noticed is that it had a distinctive nutty smell, very similar to the smell in Amaretto (almond liqueur) and some cherry pip noyeaux that was given to me by a friend. I believe the way to get this smell is to age the wine over the pips for several months. But I don't know enough about the process with plums and if you wanted to do this you should research the subject first and find out which plums may be used, whether the stones should be broken up and how many to use - as there may be a risk of adding undesirable elements to your brew if you add too much. ( Plums, cherries, and almonds all contain trace small amounts of poison, a type of cyanide I believe).


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## Airgead (1/3/16)

Yeah, I've had plum wines and meads that are great. I just can't seem to make one myself. I'll keep trying though. 

The almond flavor is indeed cyanide. Cyanide tastes like almonds. In fact it's more proper to say that almonds taste of cyanide. Unless you are using bitter almonds, you would need an awful lot of fruit pips to get a dangerous dose. We use apricot pips in jam. Likewise cherry pips.


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## TimT (1/3/16)

Yeah - I was looking into using almonds in a mead recently to get that smell; the amounts of almond used are piddling. I think to make 'almond essence' you add 12 almonds to a pint of spirits. No-one ever died from eating 12 almonds. So it's probably similar with plum and cherry pips.


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## Airgead (1/3/16)

Yeah. It's a really strong favour (mostly because we evolved to detect time amounts to avoid dying). I made a peach ratafia once - it's a 1700s thing. Basically peach leaves soaked in wine with sugar. Drunk as a liqueur. About half a dozen peach leaves in a couple of litres of wine and this intense almond smell and flavour emerged. It was really interesting just how intense it was. 

Practically undrinkable to a modern palette though.


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