# Various Methods Of Wort (and Beer!) Aeration



## malt_shovel (11/12/12)

All,

The reference below documents a small scale experiment that compared various methods of introducing oxygen into the wort prior to fermentation. It doesn't discuss the impact of that on the beer quality, rather makes the assumption at the start of the paper, that oxygen at the early stage of the ferment is important. It is aimed at homebrewers.

The final figure at the bottom of the paper is instructive and shows that shaking the fermentor is pretty quick way to get high levels of dissolved oxygen. 

More reading of the text also showed that significant saturation levels were seen in transferring to a plastic fermentor, even when minimising splashing (43%) prior to any active attempt to aerate the solution (note water was used in this experiment, and the assumption is that wort would behave similarly). 

Recent tasting sessions around my neck of the woods has shown a lot of oxidation problems in beers. Taking this same idea to transferring your wort around post-fermentation, and you would do well to ensure you use CO2 (if possible) to flush your vessels prior to transfer to minimise this problem. Active yeast will scavange this to some extent, but for filtered beer, or kegging a cold-conditioned beer with no active fermentation expected post transfer, extra care should be taken to minimise oxygen take-up.

Hope that is useful.

Cheers
:beer: 

Aeration Methods Reference


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## Truman42 (11/12/12)

Interesting read malt_shovel. All Ive ever done is let my wort fall from a height when tansferring from the chiller to the fermentor and shake the crap out of it once transferred.

I was looking into buying an airstone and pump setup but after reading that I wont bother.


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## slash22000 (11/12/12)

*TL;DR Shaking the shit out of the fermentor for <5 minutes = >90% oxygen saturation, other methods can't even compete.*

The unfortunate side effect being that you need to shake the fermentor for 5 minutes. <_<


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## donburke (11/12/12)

malt_shovel said:


> All,
> 
> The reference below documents a small scale experiment that compared various methods of introducing oxygen into the wort prior to fermentation. It doesn't discuss the impact of that on the beer quality, rather makes the assumption at the start of the paper, that oxygen at the early stage of the ferment is important. It is aimed at homebrewers.
> 
> ...



thats certainly a good start

i would like to see another option using pure o2, but measuring the dissolved oxygen at various flow rates and times and how they change with wort gravities and temperature

then i would like to see another option to measure attenuation of the same wort with different starting levels of dissolved oxygen

then most importantly, i'd like to see the final effects on taste


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## drsmurto (11/12/12)

Nice effort to format that so it looks like a scientific paper. <_< 

The one and only reference is a book written by a homebrewer? :huh: 

I'd be taking that 'essay' with a large grain of salt. 

The fact the water used for the experiments contained high levels of DO should trigger alarm bells. Either the experiment was poorly designed and as such the DO was not removed prior to the experiment (making all conclusions meaningless) or the DO meter wasn't calibrated properly. Boiled, cooled water should contain no DO or very close to it. 55-65% of saturation level is a very long way from zero.


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## Malted (11/12/12)

Truman, still get the airstone (and an Oxygen cylinder  ). Have a crack at this. Just as pitching rates can affect beer, so too can DO levels. The second video is a good one to watch for lots of general information about yeast health and all things yeast. 

http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs.cfm?website=2#r42

*27. What are optimal levels of O2 in wort?* 
10-15ppm
*28. What is the max level of O2 you can get in a carboy using air?* 
8 ppm. 
*29. Approximately how long do you have to shake a 5 gallon carboy to get oxygen saturation (8ppm)?* 
45 seconds of vigorous shaking.
*30. How long do you have to run a stone with an aquarium pump to achieve O2 saturation (8ppm) in 5 gallons of wort?* 
5 minutes. 
*31. How do you achieve higher than 8 ppm O2 levels in your wort? .* 
By injecting pure oxygen into your wort through a stone (1 min for 12 ppm). Or, by flowing pure oxygen into the carboy's head space and shaking for 20 seconds, twice. 

Youtube: Wyeast Laboratories on Aerating your Wort:


Youtube: Talking Yeast with Wyeast Laboratories:


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## Truman42 (11/12/12)

Malted said:


> Truman, still get the airstone (and an Oxygen cylinder  ). Have a crack at this. Just as pitching rates can affect beer, so too can DO levels. The second video is a good one to watch for lots of general information about yeast health and all things yeast.
> 
> http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs.cfm?website=2#r42
> 
> ...




Thanks mate, will check out the links.


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## Nick JD (11/12/12)

IIRC, tapwater has a fair amount of DO.


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## pk.sax (11/12/12)

Boiled wort doesn't.

So, a straight K&K guy might get results similar to study and an AG brewer prolly won't...


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## malt_shovel (11/12/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Nice effort to format that so it looks like a scientific paper. <_<
> 
> The one and only reference is a book written by a homebrewer? :huh:
> 
> ...



I must be missing something, as the only reference I can find was to Briggs (Brewing Science and Practice). The pages he refers to has tables / data referring to solubility of oxygen from air to both water and wort, and pure oxygen to water.

I think the point regarding DO being high at the outset is that using commonly employed homebrew methods for reducing DO initially (boiling) and transferring (using barbed hose connections, cooling through a counter flow chiller to a fermentor) introduces a fair amount of DO. I would be suprised if the DO from this was anywhere near zero unless this was performed under a vacuum.


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## Sammus (11/12/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Nice effort to format that so it looks like a scientific paper. <_<
> 
> The one and only reference is a book written by a homebrewer? :huh:
> 
> ...



This. +1.


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## ashley_leask (12/12/12)

The article doesn't seem to state what concentration in ppm the author considers to be "saturation level". Other literature uses 8ppm as the maximum achievable using ambient air as the source, but no idea if that's what his percentage figures are based on.

There's also limited value in this without a comparison to pure 02 injection, there was a noticeable difference in fermentation performance for me between that and the fermenter shaking. Would be curious to know what actual concentration is achieved with this process.

FWIW he has correctly identified the fastest way to get not enough oxygen into the beer.


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## Nick JD (12/12/12)

What wort oxygen concentration does the Mr Malty pitching calculator assume?


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## alawishus (12/12/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Nice effort to format that so it looks like a scientific paper. <_<
> 
> The one and only reference is a book written by a homebrewer? :huh:
> 
> ...



I think this is the bit you are missing

"Results: Boiled and cooled water contained a significant amount of
dissolved oxygen after it was delivered to the fermentor even before active aeration was initiated."

So the 55-65% DO is simply the result of adding the water to the fermenter
Ala


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## Bribie G (12/12/12)

According to the Yeast book, most DO is used up during the first 24 hours during the yeast multiplication phase so it's often a good idea to introduce a further burst of oxygen at this stage to prevent the multiplication stalling. Traditional methods include double dropping and drauflassen. 

As butters used to say, I thrash mine like an English Nanny. Not to mention the wort


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## drsmurto (12/12/12)

alawishus said:


> I think this is the bit you are missing
> 
> "Results: Boiled and cooled water contained a significant amount of
> dissolved oxygen after it was delivered to the fermentor even before active aeration was initiated."
> ...



I didn't miss it. I am saying that is sloppy experimental design. No zero point calibration.

Making a statement that 55-65% DO is adding during transfer is hand waving at best, an outright guess more accurately since no DO measurement of the boiled, cooled water BEFORE transfer was taken. 

Sloppy work.


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## Dars183 (12/12/12)

Interesting read Thanks for the info  



slash22000 said:


> . . . The unfortunate side effect being that you need to shake the fermentor for 5 minutes. <_<


You could always look at it as a way of working up a thirst B) 

Cheers

EDIT for typo


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## mxd (12/12/12)

or you can ignore oxygen and go for olive oil h34r:


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## alawishus (12/12/12)

DrSmurto said:


> I didn't miss it. I am saying that is sloppy experimental design. No zero point calibration.
> 
> Making a statement that 55-65% DO is adding during transfer is hand waving at best, an outright guess more accurately since no DO measurement of the boiled, cooled water BEFORE transfer was taken.
> 
> Sloppy work.




I dont understand, They seem to have calibrated the oxygenmeter?

"Measurement of Dissolved Oxygen
Dissolved oxygen content of the cooled water was
measured using a Yellow Springs Instruments
(YSI) Model 57 dissolved oxygen meter equipped
with a YSI Model 5739 probe, calibrated with
water-saturated air, prior to each set of
experiments. "


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## drsmurto (13/12/12)

alawishus said:


> I dont understand, They seem to have calibrated the oxygenmeter?
> 
> "Measurement of Dissolved Oxygen
> Dissolved oxygen content of the cooled water was
> ...



They calibrated the DO meter by using water that (I assume) has had air bubbled through it until they got a constant reading. That is the 100% (air saturation) calibration point.

Nowhere in the essay does it state they made a zero point calibration. A good experimental design will have several calibration points. One point is no good, drawing a straight line through a single point to come up with a calibration plot is arbitrary. There are an infinite number of ways you could draw that line. Two points give you a straight line but a really well designed experiment will have several points and a curve drawn through them.

That still doesn't help as there is no measurement of the water after boil but before transfer.


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## GalBrew (13/12/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Nice effort to format that so it looks like a scientific paper. <_<
> 
> The one and only reference is a book written by a homebrewer? :huh:
> 
> I'd be taking that 'essay' with a large grain of salt.



I must say those nasty reviewers at the journals I submit to like more than 1 reference to be sure.........


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## jammer (13/12/12)

mxd said:


> or you can ignore oxygen and go for olive oil h34r:



You are brave writing that on this forum!Surprised you didn't get shot down ; )Been reading about this, have you ever tried it??Very interested to hear about people's results. Seems almost too good to be true...


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## sponge (13/12/12)

jammer said:


> You are brave writing that on this forum!Surprised you didn't get shot down ; )Been reading about this, have you ever tried it??Very interested to hear about people's results. Seems almost too good to be true...



A few people seemed to have tried the olive oil method reasonably effectively.

Have a little search for olive oil on here, there's a few threads on the topic.


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## mxd (13/12/12)

jammer said:


> You are brave writing that on this forum!Surprised you didn't get shot down ; )Been reading about this, have you ever tried it??Very interested to hear about people's results. Seems almost too good to be true...




I've got 2 now (the APA and the American Wheat) that I've done with Olive oil, the APA have 2 kegs, 1 with olive oil and one with shaking, I've only just kegged the olive oil one so can't do a fair comparison yet. The FG were within a point (olive oil lower). the american wheat I think I tast a diff but as I killed the first keg it's "unknown"


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## MaltyHops (13/12/12)

Bribie G said:


> According to the Yeast book, most DO is used up during the first 24 hours during the yeast multiplication phase so it's often a good idea to introduce a further burst of oxygen at this stage to prevent the multiplication stalling. Traditional methods include double dropping and drauflassen.
> 
> As butters used to say, I thrash mine like an English Nanny. Not to mention the wort


Gday BG, any concerns about risk of airborne infections doing this?
Obviuosly you'd sanitise the thrasher as much as possible but you'd
be waving your arm above an open fermenter.


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## drsmurto (14/12/12)

MaltyHops said:


> Gday BG, any concerns about risk of airborne infections doing this?
> Obviuosly you'd sanitise the thrasher as much as possible but you'd
> be waving your arm above an open fermenter.



Before buying an O2 setup i use to do this when using english yeasts, particularly the west yorky. Now i just give the wort another 60secs of O2 after 12 hours.


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## Malted (14/12/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Before buying an O2 setup i use to do this when using english yeasts, particularly the west yorky. Now i just give the wort another 60secs of O2 after 12 hours.



2nd O2 squirt like this seems to get me ~3 points of gravity lower at finishing


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## MaltyHops (14/12/12)

I might well get in O2 aeration at some stage but will have to make do
with the best/most practical of the rest in the mean time.


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## Punkal (14/12/12)

How much would a basic O2 setup run and where would you get one?

I have the book yeast and there was a chapter/section on olive oil, I have not used it but you don't have to use much (a teaspoon was way to much from memory) and its in the pantry so I may have to chuck some in my next brew but I will still be oxygenating it, just because you use one method does not mean you cant still do the other. If the olive oil helps out a little bit and/or creates a happier environment for the yeast its got to be good. I was not here for the olive oil debates why did not like adding olive oil?


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## sponge (14/12/12)

Have a bit of a search for olive oil and there's a few threads on it.

As for amount to use, get the very smallest tiniest amount possible.

For some reason 50mg comes to my mind, but i havent had a read into it for a while


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## mxd (14/12/12)

sponge said:


> Have a bit of a search for olive oil and there's a few threads on it.
> 
> As for amount to use, get the very smallest tiniest amount possible.
> 
> For some reason 50mg comes to my mind, but i havent had a read into it for a while




I used a skewer dipped in oil about 1cm (no bubble or the like just the coating on the skewer) to mix/re-hydrate the yeast in a separate container.


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## Malted (14/12/12)

Punkal said:


> How much would a basic O2 setup run and where would you get one?



Just a couple of options:

I am led to belive that MHB sells a good bit of kit. Apparently the bottle lasts longer than the disposables available as special order from Bunnings (not compatible with this kit). http://www.ubrew.com.au/web/showproductlis...amp;subcatid=13 

Something like this will fit onto the disposable cylinders available from the big green shed. http://morebeer.com/view_product/16604/102..._Partial_System


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## alawishus (14/12/12)

Does adding pure oxygen cause oxidation of wort?

I imagine that pumping proteins/sugar full of nitrogen-poor gas (ie pure oxygen) would be detrimental in causing staling of the wort??

Never had a problem reaching FG without any sort of airation myself. Perhaps the 50-60% DO as presented above is all that is needed in the HB setting?

Ala


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## slash22000 (14/12/12)

You want to oxygenate wort. You do not want to oxidise beer.


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## Malted (14/12/12)

slash22000 said:


> You want to oxygenate wort. You do not want to oxidise beer.


You do not want to oxygenate/oxidise hot wort.  

Never had a problem reaching FG myself, (to my mind) but find I can get lower FG with O2 than that which I was accustomed to.


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## Punkal (14/12/12)

Thanks for that Malted.


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## Florian (14/12/12)

For those who double oxygenate after 12 hours - do you keep your stone/wand in the wort between doses or do you remove it.

I always insert mine with oxygen pumping through as I'm paranoid of wort entering the stone and would remove it between doses, but interested what others do?


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## drsmurto (17/12/12)

Florian said:


> For those who double oxygenate after 12 hours - do you keep your stone/wand in the wort between doses or do you remove it.
> 
> I always insert mine with oxygen pumping through as I'm paranoid of wort entering the stone and would remove it between doses, but interested what others do?



Never leave the stone immersed in a liquid without the gas flowing, easiest way to block it up.

I give my english beers 2 shots of O2, 12 hours apart. 

I turn the O2 on, drop the stone in starsan to sanitise and adjust gas flow, drop in to wort for 60 secs, into water to clean then into starsan. Only after it is removed from the starsan do i switch the gas flow off. Allow to dry and then store in a bag until next use. Even if the time between uses is only 12 hours i still follow this routine.


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## Florian (17/12/12)

Pretty similar to what I do then. My stone is firmly attached to a long stainless wand (from morebeer), so I go over both the stone and wand with a flame torch until both are really hot, connect O2 and turn on, drop into wort. 
Remove with oxygen on, dip into star san, dry lightly with a paper towel, turn O2 off and remove reg from bottle, flame torch, cover in tin foil.

Will try the 2nd O2 dose next time to see if it makes any difference.


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## Wolfman (27/2/13)

Some great reading in this thread. 

So how long do the people who use the aquarium pump with a filter aerate for? So far I've read 15 and 30.


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## Dave70 (27/2/13)

Wolfman said:


> Some great reading in this thread.
> 
> So how long do the people who use the aquarium pump with a filter aerate for? So far I've read 15 and 30.


I dropped min in last weekend and let it run on high for however long it took me to unload the washing machine and peg out the clothes. Probably 10 to 12 minutes.

I jam my pump in a old footy sock sprayed lightly with Iodophor solution. 

Cutting edge am I.


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## Wolfman (27/2/13)

Dave70 said:


> I dropped min in last weekend and let it run on high for however long it took me to unload the washing machine and peg out the clothes. Probably 10 to 12 minutes.
> 
> I jam my pump in a old footy sock sprayed lightly with Iodophor solution.
> 
> Cutting edge am I.


Sweet. Gave it 15 lastnight and another 15 this arvo. See how it works out I surpose.


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## warra48 (27/2/13)

I've given up my aquarium pump for aerating my fermenter. Too much froth build up in too short a time.
I now give it a good thrashing with a paint mixer chucked in my drill.
About 1 to 2 minutes, and I reckon she's as good as done.

I do use my aquarium pump for my starters. I have all the bits, but am yet to build my stirplate. I don't use the airstone, but have a SS nut on the end of the pump hose to keep it at the bottom of my startter container (5 litre water bottle) in about 3 to 3½ litres of starter wort. I leave the pump running for about 12 to 15 hours, and it seems to result in about a 5 to 6 times growth from the original tube or smakpak. I'm happy with that.


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## Byran (27/2/13)

Has anyone seen those things at the paint shop they use to blend 20 litre paint tins? Could be handy for doing a 5 min shake up...... I wonder if bunnings would let you take a fermenter in on a trolley :icon_cheers:


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## Dave70 (28/2/13)

Byran said:


> Has anyone seen those things at the paint shop they use to blend 20 litre paint tins? Could be handy for doing a 5 min shake up...... I wonder if bunnings would let you take a fermenter in on a trolley :icon_cheers:


Find an old bloke who looks like he took a job there to get him out of the house and you'll be set.


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## KaiTroester (28/2/13)

DrSmurto said:


> I didn't miss it. I am saying that is sloppy experimental design. No zero point calibration.
> 
> Making a statement that 55-65% DO is adding during transfer is hand waving at best, an outright guess more accurately since no DO measurement of the boiled, cooled water BEFORE transfer was taken.
> 
> Sloppy work.


I remember Fred talking about this experiment on BBR and I was also surprised about the high initial DO levels. I helped him troubleshoot the issue by boiling water and immediately sealing it in a canning jar w/o any air. That allowed it to cool w/o any O2 pickup. In the end it turned out that the DO meter was not calibrated properly.

Kai


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## MaltyHops (28/2/13)

Greetings Kai,

Sort of off topic but want to compliment you on your Braukaiser.com site :beerbang:
and great to see you here.


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## vortex (28/2/13)

MaltyHops said:


> Greetings Kai,
> 
> Sort of off topic but want to compliment you on your Braukaiser.com site :beerbang:
> and great to see you here.


+1.


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## treefiddy (28/2/13)

MaltyHops said:


> Greetings Kai,
> 
> Sort of off topic but want to compliment you on your Braukaiser.com site :beerbang:
> and great to see you here.


This is probably the best resource I've seen for brewing terminology and methodology.

When I started I was thinking "what the hell is whirlpooling and decoction"
Not only does this website explain all that, it has things like Drauflassen (?)

There goes my weekend.

Thanks for the link.


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## CONNOR BREWARE (1/3/13)

we have these setups in stock again for those looking for an affordable option.

Oxygen regulator and airstone

cheers

Ciro


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## Truman42 (10/5/13)

Gday Gents,

Ive borrowed a small oxygen cylidner from work and brought a fitting that connects to the regulator and allows me to attach a small hose and airstone so I can start aerating my wort.

I know we want about 1 min of oxygen in the fermenter but what setting do you guys have you regulator set at or wont it really matter that much? I was thinking to just leave it around 100kpa.


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## browndog (10/5/13)

You have to drop your stone in the fermenter and set it so you have a stream of fine bubbles that are just breaking the surface. any more and you are wasting oxygen.


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## Truman42 (10/5/13)

browndog said:


> You have to drop your stone in the fermenter and set it so you have a stream of fine bubbles that are just breaking the surface. any more and you are wasting oxygen.


Cheers mate, will play around with the reg until I get a fine stream and leave it at that.


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