# Brew Rig Options



## Jono_w

Hey, 
I'm putting together the parts I need to build a new all stainless steel automated brew setup.
I have these SS vats that I got at a very reasonable price. 100L brews is the goal.. 



The two 98L vats will have conicals welded to them to make two 130L fermenters. 


I currently do half batch sparges in my 50L setup and it works great so Ill prob do the same, or maybe continuous sparge.
I'm thinking the 141L-HLT, 173L-Mash and the two 88 welded together to make a 172 L kettle.
What configuartion of these vats would you guys do? :huh:


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## Jono_w

Another question.
Are there any standards as to how much head space is needed for mash tun and fermenters?


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## domonsura

Personally I would make your HLT and the kettle equal sized vessels, and use the 141 litre vessel for your mashtun. It would give you more sparge water without a re-fill/re-heat, and I don't reckon you'll be able to utilise 172litres of mashtun without making your kettle much bigger.
So what I would do is use the 173l for your kettle (it also has a more appropriate 'form factor' for use as a kettle, wider means less boilover surge - easier to manage, but slightly more evaporation which I think is fine )
I'd use the 2 x 88l vessels (probably separately actually, might allow some different temperature settings and more versatility maybe ?) for HLT's. You could heat one while using the other...... 

and I would use the 141l as the mashtun.

Come to think of it, I wish I had those vessels...........

The fermenters, I would allow 20% of the height of the vessel as head space (being conservative here and allowing for vigorous krausen), the mashtun I would suggest that headspace is kept to a minimum, even so far as to use a insulated spacer to fill up excess headspace or mat to cover the mash if you do a mash that is significantly less that the volume of the tun. 

Hope those suggestions help maybe?

edit: added more stuff


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## Keifer

Correct me if im wrong but i remember reading somewhere that some wheat beers can explode in an orgy of fermentation and need 33% headspace? Can't remember more than that...

Looks like your using gas? Have any probs with ventialtion in there (whereever there is, basement?).


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## BOG

What are you going to do with the old equipment you will have left over?

I wonder if she'd let me ...........



BOG


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## Jono_w

Thanks for the input guys.

domonsura:
Actually I also was thinking the 141L would be better as a mash tun. I thought Kettles were better being tall and thin to promote a rolling boil? I may have this round the wrong way?

Keifer:
The gear is set up in a large shed, thats the stairs to my room in the attic..
The setup in the background is all electric.
I'm thinking of using a 50KW instant gas hot water system that I have in a closed loop with a HLT to produce the Hot water and to heat the Mash using a Heat exchanger, It has electronic control so I can automate it quite easily and dont need exposed gas burners except on the kettle.

BOG:
Well I'm thinking of ratting some gear off it such as the automated valves and replacing them with manual ball valves and selling the whole thing. Not sure. Surley you could talk her into it, it's a great course, just think of all that beer...

Also having trouble finding someone to roll a conical for the fermenters, I have access to a folder to segment fold them but thats not as neat as rolling, also have access to rollers but the roller radius is 70mm
so the bottoms would have a 70mm hole. Anyone know someone able to roll or spin these?

Cheers


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## Screwtop

Hmmm, Noice!

Go the heat exchanger design, best to have a variable speed pump though, so the temp for mash and boil can be adjusted simply by varying the rate of flow through the heat exchanger. Heat exchangers provide gentle heating, the best, no caramelisation, which is why breweries use steam jacketed tube in tube heat exchangers.


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## Jono_w

Screwtop said:


> Hmmm, Noice!
> 
> Go the heat exchanger design, best to have a variable speed pump though, so the temp for mash and boil can be adjusted simply by varying the rate of flow through the heat exchanger. Heat exchangers provide gentle heating, the best, no caramelisation, which is why breweries use steam jacketed tube in tube heat exchangers.



Screwtop:
My current setup uses a rims chamber , I have on occasions had stuck sparge and it takes only seconds to caramalise in the RIMS, thats the reason for the gentle heat exchanger option. I was thinking maybe just a valve bypassing the heat exchanger and keep the flowrate throught the mash the same.


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## Yorg

Screwtop said:


> Hmmm, Noice!
> 
> Go the heat exchanger design, best to have a variable speed pump though, so the temp for mash and boil can be adjusted simply by varying the rate of flow through the heat exchanger. Heat exchangers provide gentle heating, the best, no caramelisation, which is why breweries use steam jacketed tube in tube heat exchangers.



This may be turning into a HERMS / RIMS dynamics discussion, but what the hell:
Humbly beg to differ with Screwtop on this one.
Don't vary rate of flow - at least don't use slow pump rate through Heat Exchanger to maintain Mash temp.
*Explanation:*
The design specs of a HERMS should include:
Maximum ramp rate for moving to next temp rest
Without overheating wort in the Heat Exchanger

To do this you:
*Use the smallest vessell possible to contain the heat exchanger. *
For example, I don't use the Hot Liqour Tank because it takes too long to heat all that water to impact the heat in the mash - instead, I use a small pot with a "big" element as a dedicated Heat Exchanger for controlling - and more significantly - ramping mash temp. 
*In this small pot is stuffed as much coil as you can. *
Why? Because it is a choice somewhere along this spectrum:
* Pump slowly with a short length of coil in the heat exchanger and have to heat the wort in the HE well above your desired mash temp to impact the great amount of liquid in your mash tun OR
* Pump quickly with a lot of liquid in a lot of coil and heat a lot more liquid in the HE to only a tiny bit over the desired mash temp to impact the mash tun temp.

Therefore, pump as quickly as possible without compacting the grain bed, and don't use a bypass unless you want to cook enzymes in the HE and want to make it even more complicated than HERMS already is for little added value - compared to more traditional methods.

My thoughts, happy to be corrected.
Cheers.


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## Zizzle

Sounds good to me Yorg.

From an automation standpoint, it's easier to control temperature by switching the heating element than variaing the speed of the flow too.

This bloke has some discussion on his site:
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com/HERMSDesignSpecs.html


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## Chris

Jonathon said:


> Also having trouble finding someone to roll a conical for the fermenters, I have access to a folder to segment fold them but thats not as neat as rolling, also have access to rollers but the roller radius is 70mm
> so the bottoms would have a 70mm hole. Anyone know someone able to roll or spin these?
> 
> Cheers



If you can get it down to say 75 mm you could use a SS conical reducer down to maybe 25 mm (3" to 1" conical pipe reducer), so weld this on the bottom and a 1" TOE nipple or whatever on the end. Blackwoods would be a good place to start.
Make sure you get full penetration with the welds, gas purge or direct gas directly onto the back of the welds, and clean the welds afterwards with pickling/passivating paste, so the heat affected zone doesn't pit and corrode.

Edit: Something I knocked up.


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## domonsura

showoff....:lol: what is that Chris? looks like maybe some kind of drier/separator?
Pretty impressive anyway...


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## Screwtop

Jonathon said:


> Screwtop:
> My current setup uses a rims chamber , I have on occasions had stuck sparge and it takes only seconds to caramalise in the RIMS, thats the reason for the gentle heat exchanger option. I was thinking maybe just a valve bypassing the heat exchanger and keep the flowrate throught the mash the same.




Sorry, was referring to the use of tube in tube steam heat exchangers used in some micro's. The flow rate can be varied to alter the rate of heating of the mash/wort.


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## Jono_w

It's funny that the more questions you ask, the more opinions you get, yet again there are a whole lot more questions.
So im still not sure on the Mash tun heating. I want to keep it simple. I found the less pipe work, valves and so forth make cleaning and keeping things insulated easier. So im looking at going with a gas burner under HLT, MLT, and Kettle. Each being able to be automated with HI and LOW burner settings. This will allow quicker step temp ramp ups. Using a pump to continously circulate wort in MLT to stop caramilzation. I don't like the idea of using the HLT or Heat exchanger for MLT temp control as you cant have different temps in the HLT and MLT. And I also dont like the idea of cleaning a heat exchanger full of wort.

I'm looking for food grade pumps. How do you know that they are "Food Grade" do they have to be certified?
What are your opinions on these?
http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1032.htm

Cheers..


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## dicko

Jonathon said:


> It's funny that the more questions you ask, the more opinions you get, yet again there are a whole lot more questions.
> So im still not sure on the Mash tun heating. I want to keep it simple. I found the less pipe work, valves and so forth make cleaning and keeping things insulated easier. So im looking at going with a gas burner under HLT, MLT, and Kettle. Each being able to be automated with HI and LOW burner settings. This will allow quicker step temp ramp ups. Using a pump to continously circulate wort in MLT to stop caramilzation. I don't like the idea of using the HLT or Heat exchanger for MLT temp control as you cant have different temps in the HLT and MLT. And I also dont like the idea of cleaning a heat exchanger full of wort.
> 
> I'm looking for food grade pumps. How do you know that they are "Food Grade" do they have to be certified?
> What are your opinions on these?
> http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1032.htm
> 
> Cheers..



Hi Jonathon,

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1032.htm

That looks like a pretty serious pump but in the specifications from the link there is no reference to temperature.
Most of us at the HB level use a March magnetic drive pump which is rated to 121deg c IIRC.
March brand have a large range - do a search.
If the pump cant handle the heat then it has no place in the brewery.
If I was setting up your system I make sure of the pump specifications prior to building and brewing.

Cheers


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## Jono_w

dicko said:


> Hi Jonathon,
> 
> http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/prod1032.htm
> 
> That looks like a pretty serious pump but in the specifications from the link there is no reference to temperature.
> Most of us at the HB level use a March magnetic drive pump which is rated to 121deg c IIRC.
> March brand have a large range - do a search.
> If the pump cant handle the heat then it has no place in the brewery.
> If I was setting up your system I make sure of the pump specifications prior to building and brewing.
> 
> Cheers



Thanks dicko,
Yeah i hear about these march pumps alot. I use a "Little Giant" pump currently wich is great just hard to come by cheaply. So I geuss my main question is, if i was thinking of going commercial. Do the pumps need to be certified food grade?


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## Andyd

If you're going to go commercial, everything pretty much needs to pass inspection, so it'll need to be food grade. That really only means that those parts of the pump that come into contact with the wort need to be manufactured in a material which is not going to degrade with food contact at temperature, and where no non-food fluids can enter the food stream.

If you've got specs for your "little giant", and it meets the food handling specifications, you might get away with it. Having said that I've heard some stories about inspectors being very picky. 

Andy


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## Jono_w

Andyd said:


> If you're going to go commercial, everything pretty much needs to pass inspection, so it'll need to be food grade. That really only means that those parts of the pump that come into contact with the wort need to be manufactured in a material which is not going to degrade with food contact at temperature, and where no non-food fluids can enter the food stream.
> 
> If you've got specs for your "little giant", and it meets the food handling specifications, you might get away with it. Having said that I've heard some stories about inspectors being very picky.
> 
> Andy


Thanks Andy,
That clears that up. I think I would be better investing in some good stainless pumps.


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## Jono_w

Hey lads,
I have been busy doing research and putting some new bits together for the new RIG. 
Here is a Peristaltic pump that I designed and cut out on a CNC router I built a while back..
Its made from nylon and perspex. The tube is 1/2 inch silicon hose. Should sort out the food grade pump issue. I have tried it with an 18v drill and it works great, no specs as yet.




Don't laugh ok, but i have been toying with the idea of a digital Refractometer, I have written some code to decode the image from a webcam. lol, silly i know, but would be so cool to have an inline refractometer.


tootaloo for now...


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## Jye

Nice work on the pump :super: They are such simple pieces of equipment and work beautifully.

I dont know where you got your tubing but Ive found the G&G stuff to be spongier and makes it easier for the pump to turn.


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## Jono_w

Jye said:


> Nice work on the pump :super: They are such simple pieces of equipment and work beautifully.
> 
> I dont know where you got your tubing but Ive found the G&G stuff to be spongier and makes it easier for the pump to turn.



Yeah such a great type of pump, the bit I like is that they are positive displacement, so I can meter the liquid being pumped. I got the tubing from Mashmaster, it is hard to turn..


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## Jye

Yep mine wouldnt turn with the MM tubing.


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## Jono_w

Jye said:


> Yep mine wouldnt turn with the MM tubing.



Is the G&G tubing the same dimensions?


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## Jye

Yep... your next step is to make the rollers adjustable for any size tubing


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## pokolbinguy

Jonathon said:


> Don't laugh ok, but i have been toying with the idea of a digital Refractometer, I have written some code to decode the image from a webcam. lol, silly i know, but would be so cool to have an inline refractometer.
> View attachment 14950
> 
> tootaloo for now...




If that works that would be super cool. Would love to see if it works out.

Pok :chug:


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## snagler

Some people have too much time on there hands


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## dan_pilbara

Digital Refractometer... Sounds like a good uni thesis to me and extra points for being beer related


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## Jono_w

dan_pilbara said:


> Digital Refractometer... Sounds like a good uni thesis to me and extra points for being beer related


Uni? Nah, just a bored sparky on night shifts with beer on my mind. I coupled the camera to the refractometer , put an LED at the lens end and got this image with 6 teaspoons of suger in my coffee mug.


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## Jono_w

So it works, a fair bit of fine tuning and a better coupling for the camera and possibly a better light source but the proto worked.
The program looks for a bright straight line, this position is indicated by the red line, it then does some maths to determine scale and 0 and spits out the brix..



This close enough to 0 brix (plain water in mug)





This is around 12 Brix (6 teaspoons suger in mug of water)



Who says shift work is bad for you!


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## ausdb

Jonathon said:


> Is the G&G tubing the same dimensions?





Jye said:


> Yep... your next step is to make the rollers adjustable for any size tubing


There is a big difference between the mashmaster and G&G tubing (I believe the G&G is sourced via morebeer in the US). I have some of each in my system and quickly measured them tonight with a vernier, this is what I come up with:
G&G tubing OD =19mm wall thickness ~3.4mm ID= ~12.2mm
MM tubing OD=20.5 wall thickness ~4.0mm ID= ~12.5mm
As Jye has said the G&G stuff is a loft softer durometer than the MM stuff so is more flexible and probably better for a peristaltic pump application. On the other hand the MM stuff doesn't kink as easily using it in the rest of the brewery. I too have toyed with the idea of a peristaltic pump and was wondering how much clearance you have worked on between the roller and the inner curve.


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## ausdb

Jonathon said:


> Also having trouble finding someone to roll a conical for the fermenters, I have access to a folder to segment fold them but thats not as neat as rolling, also have access to rollers but the roller radius is 70mm
> so the bottoms would have a 70mm hole. Anyone know someone able to roll or spin these?


Try someone who deals in stainless products for the food industry, like Geordi's and get a tube reducer for the last section
http://www.geordi.com.au/Products17d.htm


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## Jono_w

ausdb said:


> There is a big difference between the mashmaster and G&G tubing (I believe the G&G is sourced via morebeer in the US). I have some of each in my system and quickly measured them tonight with a vernier, this is what I come up with:
> G&G tubing OD =19mm wall thickness ~3.4mm ID= ~12.2mm
> MM tubing OD=20.5 wall thickness ~4.0mm ID= ~12.5mm
> As Jye has said the G&G stuff is a loft softer durometer than the MM stuff so is more flexible and probably better for a peristaltic pump application. On the other hand the MM stuff doesn't kink as easily using it in the rest of the brewery. I too have toyed with the idea of a peristaltic pump and was wondering how much clearance you have worked on between the roller and the inner curve.


Cheers, Ill measure my clearance today and let you know. I think it was 6mm.


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## Jono_w

ausdb said:


> Try someone who deals in stainless products for the food industry, like Geordi's and get a tube reducer for the last section
> http://www.geordi.com.au/Products17d.htm


Ill flick them an email, cheers.


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## Thirsty Boy

Jonathon - I know nothing of peristaltic pumps, but I do know that Craftbrewer stocks neoprene (I think) tube especially for the peristaltic pumps they sell.

Just another option, and it certainly looks squishy in the picture.


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## Jono_w

Hey lads,
Well in between other things I have thrown a bit of a drawing together of the new brewery, made up from the vessels i mentioned in the start of this post.




From left , 188L HLT , 125L tilting mash tun and 170L Kettle. Any sugestions? 

Cheers.
Jonathon.


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## sqyre

Hey Jonathon, 
Looks like we've got another mad inventer on the site..
Those tanks look the go..

Not sure if your interested but i came across an in-line Refractometer HERE.

Keep up the good work..
Sqyre..


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## domonsura

Sqyre....don't show these guys those.....geez people will be mortgaging their homes to build their breweries soon.... It's homebrewing, but not as we know it Jim....

But wouldn't that little gadget be nice to go in the mashtun outlet.......


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## Jono_w

sqyre said:


> Hey Jonathon,
> Looks like we've got another mad inventer on the site..
> Those tanks look the go..
> 
> Not sure if your interested but i came across an in-line Refractometer HERE.
> 
> Keep up the good work..
> Sqyre..



Ahh yes i did check those refractometer's out, nice .. Hate to think what they would cost, there was one on ebay similar for around $1700 us,

Mad? me?, i'm fine, as long as I take my medication.....


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## Jono_w

Hello everyone,
Just thought I would show you all a bit of an update on the new machine. I have been flat out welding and polishing.









This is the stainless steel cabinet I bought on ebay, it was full of electrical goodies all in brand new condition , got some great parts out of it. This will house the plc and so on.

Still waiting on some pnuematic actuators(ebay) to fit the "Mashmaster" ball valves, apparently on a ship somwhere out there.
And looking for a couple of good pumps.

Cheers,


edit: Attachments were playing up.


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## milpod

Very nice mate B),looks even better than your drawings.


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## Jono_w

milpod said:


> Very nice mate B),looks even better than your drawings.



Thanks ,


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## domonsura

That is beautiful Jonathon  Do you work in the stainless industry?


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## Jono_w

domonsura said:


> That is beautiful Jonathon  Do you work in the stainless industry?



Cheers mate,
Na I'm an industrial electrician for a big factory. I have a friend with a large sheetmetal workshop for rolling and 
guilotine work and such, otherwise I have a farily good workshop myself. Its hard to get work like this done in a small town so I do as much as I can myself.


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## Pumpy

Jonathon said:


> Cheers mate,
> Na I'm an industrial electrician for a big factory. I have a friend with a large sheetmetal workshop for rolling and
> guilotine work and such, otherwise I have a farily good workshop myself. Its hard to get work like this done in a small town so I do as much as I can myself.




Well done Jonathon you are going to make a lot of beer in those tanks 

Pumpy


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## Tony

Jonathon said:


> Na I'm an industrial electrician



:super: Go the sparkies. 

Looks bloody fantastic. Keep the pictures comming as it progresses.

cheers


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## Darren

OMG. Well done.

cheers

Darren


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## Jono_w

Yeah hope to make enough to keep me happy Pumpy! 

Tony, I always wanted to be a fitter & Turner lol, lucky I saw the light!

Heres todays progress,
I made 3 Thermowell's for my temp probes, they will be welded into each Vessel, The are made from the crimp fitting that 
came with the probes, 200mm of 10mm stainless tube with one end welded up, then the crimp was welded on and a bit of a file, sand and polish in the lathe.









Edit:Attachment playing silly beggers..


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## Tony

:lol: I remember telling a fitter that told me i was over paid, that a leco could do a fitters job but a fitter could not do mine. 
He didnt like that. hehe  

but thats the war of the trades.

PS..... i dont have a problem with fitters. Ive known plenty of good ones too 

cheers


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## Yorg

Jonathon said:


> Hello everyone,
> Just thought I would show you all a bit of an update on the new machine. I have been flat out welding and polishing.
> View attachment 15958
> 
> 
> So, what do you use for polishing? How do you go about it?


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## Jono_w

Yorg,
The 50mm framework was put in my lathe before it was welded togther and on a slow speed i use a 400grit wet and dry.
The thermowells were also sanded in the lathe then i use some "autosol" on a rag.

Edit: Fixed attachment bug..


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## big d

Looking great Jonathon.Some big beers coming up in the near future.
As for Tony-Bloody sparkies.Scared of a hard days work.  Actually know one or two who can actually make reasonable beer.  

Cheers
Big D


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## Jono_w

big d said:


> Looking great Jonathon.Some big beers coming up in the near future.
> As for Tony-Bloody sparkies.Scared of a hard days work.  Actually know one or two who can actually make reasonable beer.
> 
> Cheers
> Big D



Cheers,
HA, maybe we should start a new thread, "War of the tradies"  lol, I argue at work if a bolt is over 10mm it must be a fitters job. The fun never stops.


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## Mitternacht Brauer

Jonathon said:


> Cheers,
> HA, maybe we should start a new thread, "War of the tradies"  lol, I argue at work if a bolt is over 10mm it must be a fitters job. The fun never stops.




Jonathon What are you doing touching any bolt thats not in a motor jbox?? Really Fitters are great when you need something heavy or dirty moved !!

Try telling them your happy to undo any bolt that your pliers will fit !


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## Jono_w

buster3931 said:


> Jonathon What are you doing touching any bolt thats not in a motor jbox?? Really Fitters are great when you need something heavy or dirty moved !!
> 
> Try telling them your happy to undo any bolt that your pliers will fit !



lol, your right , NOT MY JOB!


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## domonsura

aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.......the good ole...'That's not in my job description' line............something I'd never heard until I moved to this side of the ditch.... 
But those thermowells sure are beeeeeeaautiful. But the glare, the glare!!!!!!! (Must be some compo available for shiney stuff related 'arc eye' surely.....:lol: )


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## Jono_w

domonsura said:


> aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.......the good ole...'That's not in my job description' line............something I'd never heard until I moved to this side of the ditch....
> But those thermowells sure are beeeeeeaautiful. But the glare, the glare!!!!!!! (Must be some compo available for shiney stuff related 'arc eye' surely.....:lol: )



It's a common answer of mine. 
So sue me!


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## Yorg

Jonathon, can you provide more information on the construction of your peristaltic pump?
It deserves a new thread of its own, I reckon.
I'm dead keen to see if it is something I might be able to make as well.
What sort of volume per minute does it do?
Cheers,
Yorg.


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## Simon W

ausdb said:


> I too have toyed with the idea of a peristaltic pump and was wondering how much clearance you have worked on between the roller and the inner curve.



I've been playing around with the idea of a peripump too, I figured the wall/roller clearance would be somewhere around twice the tube wall thickness? Maybe a little less to provide a nice seal for each segment between rollers?
Was thinking of using two or three tubes in parallel to up the flow rate too.(my silicone tube is 8mm ID)

RE: the digital refractometer, nice work!
I had toyed with this idea too, but was going to start from scratch and use a CCD or photodiode linear array as the sensor, but was getting too complicated(and expensive).


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## JSB

CCD or photodiode linear array as the sensor, but was getting too complicated(and expensive). Yeap me too !  wat tha !!


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## Jono_w

Yorg,
seeing there is a fair bit of interest around this pump I would be happy to post more info on it including all the CAD drawings I used to cut it out on my CNC.
As for flow rate I will have to do some testing and get back to you. 


Hi Simon W,
My clearance was about .5mm tighter than double the wall thickness, the main problem with these pumps is you need alot of power to drive them. Parralleling the tube would be a must if you are only using 8mm, I would suggest using the thickest tube you can get, keeps things simple.

Cheers,

PS, Had a thought today, It's really hard to work on a brewery when you have a huge hang-over!! Its just a giant shiny hang-over machine!


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## Cortez The Killer

If that ain't top shelf brewers pr0n - I don't what is

Top work !

Cheers


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## Hogan

Jonathon said:


> lol, your right , NOT MY JOB!


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## Yorg

Jonathon said:


> Yorg,
> seeing there is a fair bit of interest around this pump I would be happy to post more info on it including all the CAD drawings I used to cut it out on my CNC.
> As for flow rate I will have to do some testing and get back to you.
> Hi Simon W,
> My clearance was about .5mm tighter than double the wall thickness, the main problem with these pumps is you need alot of power to drive them. Parralleling the tube would be a must if you are only using 8mm, I would suggest using the thickest tube you can get, keeps things simple.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> PS, Had a thought today, It's really hard to work on a brewery when you have a huge hang-over!! Its just a giant shiny hang-over machine!



That would be great!


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## Simon W

JSB said:


> CCD or photodiode linear array as the sensor, but was getting too complicated(and expensive). Yeap me too !  wat tha !!


Heh sorry, it's basically the same as the sensor in a digital camera, except that its just a single line of pixels. They're used in a few things, but flatbed scanners would probably be the most common.



Jonathon said:


> Hi Simon W,
> My clearance was about .5mm tighter than double the wall thickness, the main problem with these pumps is you need alot of power to drive them. Parralleling the tube would be a must if you are only using 8mm, I would suggest using the thickest tube you can get, keeps things simple.



Cheers, figured there would be a little 'squish' but wondered about fatigue so wasn't sure.
Torque shouldn't be a problem, was gonna overpower anyway so I can get high pressures(for another project).
Changed my mind with the 8mm(actually 8.5) tubing, was just some stuff I had laying around but it only has 50% the flow of the 12mm stuff so will be going shopping.


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## Jono_w

Bit of an update, not a whole lot been happening. Done a few brews on the "old" system. Finally got my Pneumatic actuators from canada today. only took 10 weeks.




"Your Best Offer price of US $120.00 (8 x US $15.00) was accepted - you are the winner! " I'm a winner alright....

Just have to make a shaft between the actuator and valve and a mount.
The ball valves are from mashmaster 

Well back to it I guess...


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## beernography

That thing's top shelf Jonathon. Inspiring to see such creativity and dedication!


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## Jono_w

beernography said:


> That thing's top shelf Jonathon. Inspiring to see such creativity and dedication!



Cheers mate, 
I hope to get stuck into it and finish it off very soon, my brother is getting married so I have been flat stick brewing on the old setup. And now I had to clear it all out of the shed because the wedding is in the shed.. Ahh..


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Brewers,

Heres an update of the rig.
The mash tun is now tilting with the push of a button thanks to a 24v linear actuator, same ones are used on satellite dishes.
Today i welded the two element mounting flanges to the kettle. There is one 4.8kw already in one more to come. 

Kettle Elements: 


Kettle:


Kettle Inside:


Mash Tun:


Mash Tun Tilted:


Mash Tun Hinge / Actuator Mount:


Cheerz...


----------



## brettprevans

I think /I just b lew my load. Damn thts nice Jono. Dont suppose your in Eastern suburbs in Vic and want to come set my rig up?!!! seriously nice work.


----------



## Jono_w

citymorgue2 said:


> I think /I just b lew my load. Damn thts nice Jono. Dont suppose your in Eastern suburbs in Vic and want to come set my rig up?!!! seriously nice work.




:lol: cheers mate.. I'm down in Portland, I don't get to Melbourne very often but if I do ill look you up.. :beerbang:


----------



## schooey

Dude.. you won lotto didn't you?


----------



## Jono_w

schooey said:


> Dude.. you won lotto didn't you?



Nope I wish, just right place at the right time. All of the blank stainless tanks, 7 in total, cost me $40 each at a machinery auction, Other stainless is offcuts from a friend sheet metal worker.


----------



## reg

Jonathon said:


> Nope I wish, just right place at the right time. All of the blank stainless tanks, 7 in total, cost me $40 each at a machinery auction, Other stainless is offcuts from a friend sheet metal worker.


Got any of the stainless tanks left you want get rid off. :icon_drool2: s: 
I go to portland from time to time and would be happy to buy a couple of you :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Jono_w

reg said:


> Got any of the stainless tanks left you want get rid off. :icon_drool2: s:
> I go to portland from time to time and would be happy to buy a couple of you :icon_chickcheers:



No spares sorry Reg, i'm using the rest for fermenters if I can find someone to spin or roll the cones for them..


----------



## Jono_w

Evening all.

Received two march pumps last week thanks SpecialK, so now I'm slowly sorting out the plumbing. Heres a new rendering of what I'm up to. What you see is pretty much as much as I have built, the smallest vessel is the new Herms heat exchanger.. _Real_ pics soon to come.
View attachment NewFf.bmp


----------



## Zwickel

Jonathan, much to my regret I didnt had the time to come over to Portland last holiday.

Your setup is absolutely great/amazing....Im gobsmacked


----------



## Jono_w

Zwickel said:


> Jonathan, much to my regret I didnt had the time to come over to Portland last holiday.
> 
> Your setup is absolutely great/amazing....Im gobsmacked



Thanks Zwickel,
Next time you visit Aus, We may even catch up soon, as discussed a while ago. I have just been granted my 6 months long service leave from work :beerbang: , Heading over your way in July traveling around europe and ending up at Oktoberfest.. :beer:


----------



## Jono_w

Here's a a few pics of the plumbing setup, its a bit of a nightmare, but im getting there..
Two march pumps and eight pneumatic actuated ball valves. 







Im still debating whether to use a "plate heat exchanger" external to the HERMS with a pump recirculating hot water from the HERMS tank or a stainless coil in the HERMS tank, doing away with another pump. Anyone know how long and what diameter Stainless HERMS coil would be needed for 120L mashtun? The HERMS tank is 50L with 3.6kw element

Cheers


----------



## kirem

The main problem with a plate heat exchanger will be the amount of solids from the mash tun fouling up the plates. I think a coil will work best. I know a HERMS works very well on a small scale, but a large scale is something else. 

I worked on a coil length calculation a while back.

I wanted to work out what volume I could remove from the mash and prevent compacting the mash bed. I brewed without the heat exchanger finished. The smallest batch I wanted to do was about 20L, so I put 4kg of grain in with 10L of water in the mash tun and recirculated. After about 5mins I started removing 500mL lots from the recirculation and waited for signs of the mash bed to compact and the pump started to struggle. I then knew how much thin part I could remove from the mash before I had problems and used this value as the volume of the coil and the extra hoses in the recirculation path.

Changing the velocity of wort flow in the recirculation and obviously water:grain ratio will change the amount you can remove from the mash as well.

When I did this I used a 45L vessel as my heat-exchanger (this has changed now). I can't remember the length of the copper coil and if you really want to know I can dig it out and measure it. I did not have trouble with the heat-exchanger's ability to maintain and change the mash temp using the coil volume I worked out

I wrapped it around a corney keg and this was a pretty good fit for inside a 45L vessel

If you do this as well, I think you will be in the ball park for an optimum coil size.

Good luck


----------



## Jono_w

Kirem ,
Thats a good point, I had not thought of the volume of the coil affecting the smallest batch size. 
I have made a 10mm stainless coil around 5 meters long. I guess its worth a try.. If I was to calculate the surface area of the coil, I wounder if there is a calculation I could used to compare its heat transfere capabilities compared to a plate heat exchanger?


----------



## kirem

a plate will perform better, but I think you will have problems with soilds.


----------



## Jono_w

kirem said:


> a plate will perform better, but I think you will have problems with soilds.



Ok,
I have a couple solid heat exchangers, but as you say, cleaning them would be near impossible.
And im sure that a small "plate and frame" heat exchanger would not be as cheap as the solid versions?
maybe an old dairy one? Anyway I'll try the coil and see how it goes..


----------



## yardy

Jonathon said:


> All of the blank stainless tanks, 7 in total, cost me $40 each at a machinery auction,




buys like that don't come along very often, even better when you see them transformed into brew gear, nice job so far Jon B) B) 

cheers
yard


----------



## Jono_w

yardy said:


> buys like that don't come along very often, even better when you see them transformed into brew gear, nice job so far Jon B) B)
> 
> cheers
> yard



Thanks mate..
Your right, was a shame to see them go to waste, they were originally destined as displays for a jewelers.  
I actually was unaware of the bargain until I got a quote for some more stainless sheet..... :huh:


----------



## Jono_w

hello again,
After reading [topic="22805"]Kirem's[/topic] post on his new and very flash Heat exchanger it inspired me to put one together.

I used 12.7mm stainless tube to make the coil, the vessel is a 19L Keg, with a 4.8kw element mounted vertically in the bottom and temp probe in the top. 
Anyone thinking of cutting the bottom out of a 19L keg thinking you can weld it back on,, GOOD LUCK!! lets just say it was challenging... I think thats where a boiler maker may have come in handy.. Only one way to learn i guess.. 






I have a question, 
I can mount it vertically with the lid removed so it wont build up pressure and launch me skyward, but, it takes up room and the pipe run would be rather long. I would like to lay it down under the mash tun. Now I realize there could be some major issues here. If there is a vent tube from the vessel does that exclude it from being a pressurized vessel?? and how big should it be? prob not worth risking but just thought id ask. Any boiler techs out there??

VERTICAL


HORIZONTAL





Cheers!


----------



## troydo

no help at all... 

BUT :icon_drool2: damn nice kit man!


----------



## hockadays

Jonathon said:


> hello again,
> After reading [topic="22805"]Kirem's[/topic] post on his new and very flash Heat exchanger it inspired me to put one together.
> 
> I used 12.7mm stainless tube to make the coil, the vessel is a 19L Keg, with a 4.8kw element mounted vertically in the bottom and temp probe in the top.
> Anyone thinking of cutting the bottom out of a 19L keg thinking you can weld it back on,, GOOD LUCK!! lets just say it was challenging... I think thats where a boiler maker may have come in handy.. Only one way to learn i guess..
> 
> View attachment 19079
> View attachment 19081
> View attachment 19082
> 
> I have a question,
> I can mount it vertically with the lid removed so it wont build up pressure and launch me skyward, but, it takes up room and the pipe run would be rather long. I would like to lay it down under the mash tun. Now I realize there could be some major issues here. If there is a vent tube from the vessel does that exclude it from being a pressurized vessel?? and how big should it be? prob not worth risking but just thought id ask. Any boiler techs out there??
> 
> VERTICAL
> View attachment 19083
> 
> HORIZONTAL
> View attachment 19084
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!



This rig is starting to look pretty good my only question is how are you going to ferment a batch size that big or have you already got a conical in the pipeline as well?


----------



## Jono_w

hockadays said:


> This rig is starting to look pretty good my only question is how are you going to ferment a batch size that big or have you already got a conical in the pipeline as well?



Cheers mate,
I have two conicals to build. I have the main vessels made, just need to get the conical part rolled up..


----------



## Jono_w

Troydo said:


> no help at all...
> 
> BUT :icon_drool2: damn nice kit man!



Thanks mate,


----------



## newguy

Sorry this is late (just discovered this thread today), but this outfit sells SS cones that you could probably incorporate into the vessels you want to turn into fermenters. They're cheap, but the shipping from the states may be prohibitive.


----------



## Frank

As with other peoples posts, congrats on the set up. It is looking great.
I am not a boiler tech, but here's my 2 cents.
As long as pressure can be released the size of the vent would not make a difference.
I would recommend your exchanger to be left standing upright, this way you could always ensure it is full of water, I could see that having it on its side tucked away, there is a chance that water vapour would escape and potentially run dry.

Have you tried tilting your Mash Tun with weight in it, simulating grain? The hinge and actuator seems a bit small, just from looking at the photo.
Look forward to the next updates.


----------



## Jono_w

newguy said:


> Sorry this is late (just discovered this thread today), but this outfit sells SS cones that you could probably incorporate into the vessels you want to turn into fermenters. They're cheap, but the shipping from the states may be prohibitive.



Thanks Newguy.
I have come across toledometalspinning before :icon_drool2: , the problem I have is that the drum part is already made and is exactly 500m diameter, on their site they don't list a 500mm. I'm also not sure whether it would be cheaper to get them made locally. Its a shame they are not a little closer. I think some guys on this forum have got some gear from them before.



Boston said:


> As with other peoples posts, congrats on the set up. It is looking great.
> I am not a boiler tech, but here's my 2 cents.
> As long as pressure can be released the size of the vent would not make a difference.
> I would recommend your exchanger to be left standing upright, this way you could always ensure it is full of water, I could see that having it on its side tucked away, there is a chance that water vapour would escape and potentially run dry.
> 
> Have you tried tilting your Mash Tun with weight in it, simulating grain? The hinge and actuator seems a bit small, just from looking at the photo.
> Look forward to the next updates.



Boston,
I think your on to it, I will keep it vertical just keeps things simple. I haven't tried tilting the tun yet with a load, but i'm pretty confident.. The hinge pins are 10mm stainless, i hope it will hold up, got me thinking now, thats one thing I wasn't worried about at all. I have sat in it, but im only 75kg's...


Cheers :icon_cheers: :super:


----------



## yardy

Jonathon said:


> The hinge pins are 10mm stainless, i hope it will hold up, got me thinking now,




they'll be fine.


----------



## Frank

Jonathon said:


> I haven't tried tilting the tun yet with a load, but i'm pretty confident.. The hinge pins are 10mm stainless, i hope it will hold up, got me thinking now, thats one thing I wasn't worried about at all. I have sat in it, but im only 75kg's...
> 
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers: :super:



Jonathon
I was thinking more about the torque of the actuator, not the actual hinge pin. What size satalite dish did it use to move? I am assuming it is a worm drive.
Boston


----------



## Jono_w

Boston said:


> Jonathon
> I was thinking more about the torque of the actuator, not the actual hinge pin. What size satalite dish did it use to move? I am assuming it is a worm drive.
> Boston



Boston,
The actuator has a 4000N push load @ 24v.. Yes worm drive...


----------



## royourboat

where are you with it now Johnathon?

looks sweet.


----------



## Jono_w

royourboat said:


> where are you with it now Johnathon?
> 
> looks sweet.



Well I have only just got back home two days ago from a 6 month european / canada trip ( thanks again zwickel for your hospitality) 
So the covers are coming off and i'm warming up the workshop ready to finish it off. 
Just have a bit of plumbing a false bottom for the mash tun and all of the electronics to finish.


----------



## Jono_w

researching at Oktoberfest..


----------



## Zwickel

Hi Johnathon,

nice to see you back at AHB. Its a pity that you had only a little time here.
I hope, you had a nice time all of the 6 month on travel.

Cheers mate :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

Zwickel said:


> Hi Johnathon,
> 
> nice to see you back at AHB. Its a pity that you had only a little time here.
> I hope, you had a nice time all of the 6 month on travel.
> 
> Cheers mate :icon_cheers:



Zwickel
I had the time of my life traveling and am lucky enough to be one of the few to have seen the "Zwickel Brewery" first hand..


----------



## gibbocore

less talk, more building  

looks amazing!


----------



## raven19

gibbocore said:


> less talk, more building
> 
> looks amazing!



+1, we are all keen to see the next stage of construction!

Damn there is a lot of bling in the previous pages...!


----------



## I like beer

Jonathon said:


> Well I have only just got back home two days ago from a 6 month european / canada trip ( thanks again zwickel for your hospitality)
> So the covers are coming off and i'm warming up the workshop ready to finish it off.
> Just have a bit of plumbing a false bottom for the mash tun and all of the electronics to finish.




Well don't forget the hops plants are potted and waiting to be picked up now that you have finally finished travelling.  

( 2 less plants in the backyard :lol: good)

Won't I be in trouble when 'He' reads this :lol: 

The Mrs


----------



## Jono_w

I like beer said:


> Well don't forget the hops plants are potted and waiting to be picked up now that you have finally finished travelling.
> 
> ( 2 less plants in the backyard :lol: good)
> 
> Won't I be in trouble when 'He' reads this :lol:
> 
> The Mrs



Excellent, they grew then. Thats great news. 'He' wont even notice they are gone...  

By the way guys I am still building, i have my laptop in the shed...


----------



## Jono_w

Today I plumbed up the HLT (far left), welded legs to the Heat exchanger (3rd small vessel) and welded the inlet and outlet plumbing on the mash tun (2nd). Most of the plumbing is now done. Next will be to run the air lines for the pneumatic valves.

Cheers


----------



## Jono_w

Hey brewers,

I have a question, 
Im trying to decide what sort of false bottom to use in my mash tun.
So what are peoples thoughts?

SS woven wire mesh (which i already have)
SS Perforated sheet false bottom
SS manifold
or
I see these new louver types that look good but i think ill run into trouble getting one custom made.

The mash tun is 600mm in diameter.

Cheers and Merry xmas.


----------



## newguy

Jonathon said:


> Hey brewers,
> 
> I have a question,
> Im trying to decide what sort of false bottom to use in my mash tun.
> So what are peoples thoughts?
> 
> SS woven wire mesh (which i already have)
> SS Perforated sheet false bottom
> SS manifold
> or
> I see these new louver types that look good but i think ill run into trouble getting one custom made.
> 
> The mash tun is 600mm in diameter.
> 
> Cheers and Merry xmas.



Save your money. Go to the hardware store and buy copper pipe, elbows, T's, etc. Also get a hacksaw if you don't already have one. Carefully bend the pipe into whatever shape you want, such as circular, semicircular, whatever. A simple way to do it without crimping the pipe is to fill it with sand, then bend it. It won't buckle and pinch off that way. As to what shape, I suggest something like the Greek letter theta. This will give you a circular bit around the outside edge of your mashtun with a straight section across the middle. Once you have the pipe bent and cut (or if you don't bend it and just use straight sections with elbows and whatnot), and it fits your mashtun, start with the hacksaw. Cut about 1/2 way through the pipe about every 8-10 mm or so. Don't solder it together - leave it as a friction fit deal and you'll be able to dismantle and clean it.

If you overlook the elbow grease, it's easy to do and very cheap. You get good results too. The 2 different eskies I used to use (switched to HERMS) had homemade slotted copper manifolds and I was very happy with their performance.


----------



## devo

Jonathon said:


> Hey brewers,
> 
> I have a question,
> Im trying to decide what sort of false bottom to use in my mash tun.
> So what are peoples thoughts?
> 
> SS woven wire mesh (which i already have)
> SS Perforated sheet false bottom
> SS manifold
> or
> I see these new louver types that look good but i think ill run into trouble getting one custom made.
> 
> The mash tun is 600mm in diameter.
> 
> Cheers and Merry xmas.



You've gone all out so far so I'd suggest the SS Perforated sheet false bottom.

devo


----------



## Zizzle

Yeah I wouldn't bother with copper either if everything else is SS.

I was most of the way through removing all the copper from the Brewbot before I had to pack it. It's probably pretty different in Canada, but I was in sunny Queensland about 100m from the beach. The copper would corrode pretty badly between brews. Nice and green.

So either I had to run some acid through before each brew, or the acidic wort would clean it all up and I would end up drinking it all.

SS just looks better to as we all know.


----------



## Jono_w

devo said:


> You've gone all out so far so I'd suggest the SS Perforated sheet false bottom.
> 
> devo



Thats what i was thinking, i havent used any copper yet and i would like to keep everything stainless.
I was talking to a mate yesterday and i mentioned perforated ss and he said "i have some, ill drop it off tomorrow". 
Isn't it funny how things work out.. :lol:


----------



## domonsura

Stainless perf sheet mate, anything else on your work of art would be blasphemy


----------



## gibbocore

Just bumping for a possible update h34r:


----------



## Simon W

Been using SS wire mesh for some time, works mint.


----------



## bouncingcastle

I've been following this thread for a while, and I just saw the post of the plumbing.... FU*K (pardon my french) that is one hot looking brewery. *green with envy*


----------



## Jono_w

gibbocore said:


> Just bumping for a possible update h34r:



Well not a great deal to update mainly due to the sun shining and the jetski not melting any pistons (yet), all the plumbing / thermowells are now fully welded as they were just tacked together, the elements are mounted in the kettle and all wired up.

Lots of control wiring to lay out next, fairly straight forward stuff and then finish the PLC program.

Im thinking ill mount the whole thing on a sheet of either stainless or something similar and have a frame underneath with fork slippers so it can all be picked up and moved around. Stanless sheet is going to cost $$$ so i'm up for any suggestions on an alternative that is caustic safe.

I'll post some pics soon.



Simon W said:


> Been using SS wire mesh for some time, works mint.


Good stuff for sure i used it in my earlier version, i was concerned about cleaning it but it seams to be fine.



bouncingcastle said:


> I've been following this thread for a while, and I just saw the post of the plumbing.... FU*K (pardon my french) that is one hot looking brewery. *green with envy*



Merci beaucoup


----------



## Simon W

Jonathon said:


> Good stuff for sure i used it in my earlier version, i was concerned about cleaning it but it seams to be fine.



Yeah its pretty simple to clean, I just pull the FB out, clip a spray nozzle into the garden hose and give it a blast from the 'under' side.
Couple of seconds of work.


----------



## Jono_w

Kettle with 2x 4800w elements



Added plate heat exchanger and waste hot water recycling plumbing



Cheers..


----------



## Zwickel

wow....Im gobsmacked....speachless... :wub:


----------



## Franko

I like it,has major bling factor
Top job

Franko


----------



## Jono_w

Zwickel said:


> wow....Im gobsmacked....speachless... :wub:


Cheers zwickel, have you seen the "Bitburger" flag in the background before?  



Franko said:


> I like it,has major bling factor
> Top job
> 
> Franko



Cheers Franko,


----------



## Zwickel

Jonathon said:


> Cheers zwickel, have you seen the "Bitburger" flag in the background before?


of course have I noticed it. There is no porn pic I would look up that intensively like I do at your brewery


----------



## schooey

Coming from a German dude, that's a _*BIG*_ statement...


----------



## BOG

Easily the best looking setup I've seen on the Forum. 

It's art!



BOG


----------



## Pumpy

bouncingcastle said:


> I've been following this thread for a while, and I just saw the post of the plumbing.... FU*K (pardon my french) that is one hot looking brewery. *green with envy*



Yes Johnathon ,

You have done an excellent job great micro or for making fresh wort kits otherwise if it for home use is you fermentation fridges and keg fridge as big 

I get a bored with 40 litre batches you going to have a hell of a lot of beer  

Pumpy


----------



## Jono_w

Pumpy said:


> Yes Johnathon ,
> 
> You have done an excellent job great micro or for making fresh wort kits otherwise if it for home use is you fermentation fridges and keg fridge as big
> 
> I get a bored with 40 litre batches you going to have a hell of a lot of beer
> 
> Pumpy



Cheers Pumpy,

It is a lot of beer, as many of us on this forum I have aspirations to produce commercially. Whether or not I could ever get this machine approved food grade is the question. Otherwise half batches will be the go and have the mates around more often. :lol: 
The fermenters are not complete yet but they will be big enough. B) 

Jonathon


----------



## BEC26

sigh . . . . . :lol: 

Here am I trying to get away from Coopers kits and maybe to an urn with gravity feed . . . .maybe. 

Got to find space, things blah blah blah hehehe

Who said porn was good???

Yours enviously
Bruce :beer:  :lol:


----------



## raven19

Incredibly schmick setup. Not much else can be said...


----------



## chappo1970

Bump!!! Need an update NOW!

This thread is wayyyy better than porn!! It's beer porn!

Jonathon by the way F%CKING AWESOME mate! Wow super impressed. Gobsmacked with the detail. Bet your sick and tired of the polishing it's taken to make that baby sparkle?


----------



## alowen474

Awesome setup,
Quick one on your false bottom.
I have heard at a couple of places if you go perforated sheet, you want 25% opening with a gap under 1mm.
This sheet quoted was about $300 for a 1m square.


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Chappo,
Well i have been hoping to get a heap done in the control cabinet and give an update but things are a bit slow, due mainly to good weather and just seems wrong to spend too much time in the shed. Also working on the mixer for the Mash Tun. 
To be honest I haven't had to polish much yet as most of the stainless used is brushed. 

beerforal:
$300!!! That is crazy. 
I have some perforated stainless sheet i was given but the holes are a little big around 4mm. My ultimate would be to get it laser cut with slots and leave a small ring around the circumference uncut. I'm yet to price this..

Thanks Fellas.
Jonathon


----------



## alowen474

The current trend for micros is the laser cut v wire like the stuff they put in drains at supermarkets and schools now. Very cool, but a bit pricey.
The <1mm perf sheet in ss is dear, but the sheet is 75% intact.
These are the stats I was told to get the sparge to work most efficiently. If you have larger holes you obviously get more coming through initially and the 25% open was to restrict the flow to help reduce channelling through the grain bed.

My thoughts anyway. Your kit is awesome. Its great to see you go to that effort and you'll get a lifetime of joy out of that puppy.

Cheers


----------



## hockadays

It's coming along nicely, what about a yeast brink? Other wise you'll need to brew a 20l batch first just to get enough yeast to pitch. Unless you use dry of course but with a setup like this liquid yeast would have to be a must wouldn't it? Your obviously searching fo perfection. You could always steal a full slurry off another homebrewer maybe.


----------



## chappo1970

Jonathon said:


> ...just seems wrong to spend too much time in the shed...
> Jonathon



Wash your mouth out and say your sorry!... I live in my man cave (only to hide from the wife and kids :lol: ). I guess you don't have that problem yet? Lucky lucky bugger!

Alright if you don't have anything new to show at least post more pics... pppleeeaaassseeeeee... I need the beer porn fix my friend, ya just got help me!!!

:super: <Start Chant> :super: 
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!

:super:


----------



## boingk

I'm gobsmacked. Speechless. In awe. Confounded. Enlightened. Amazed.

Whoa man - boingk


----------



## technocat

I have been slowly getting my brew gear together this is what I am trying to buildView attachment 24710


This what I have so far plus the electricsView attachment 24713
and electronicsView attachment 24711
The next job is making the stand fitting the burners and associated plumbimg, wiring it up and I am in business. A lot of work and not for the faint hearted. Note on the original there are two temperature gauges on the HLT and the MLT probably to give a better idea of overall temps in the vessels. I might add these later if need be.

attachment=24713hoto0001.JPG]

Cheers


----------



## pmolou

Pumpy said:


> Yes Johnathon ,
> 
> You have done an excellent job great micro or for making fresh wort kits otherwise if it for home use is you fermentation fridges and keg fridge as big
> 
> I get a bored with 40 litre batches you going to have a hell of a lot of beer
> 
> Pumpy



you should make fresh wort kits, hell i know i'd buy em from someone who can make a set-up like that! :beerbang:


----------



## schooey

pmolou said:


> you should make fresh wort kits, hell i know i'd buy em from someone who can make a set-up like that! :beerbang:




See that's the thing; Really good gear doesn't necessarily mean really good beer.

Not taking anything away from Johnathon. I love his setup and I'm a little green with envy. I can appreciate his passion for tinkering with things mechanacil and the level of perfection he has strived for in it. Not taking anything away from his ability to brew either, never tasted any of his beers, but I'm sure they're great.

My point is, some of the best beers I've been fortunate enough to taste at comps, given to me or I've got from case swaps have been made on the most basic of setups. My own setup is fairly automated from the norm, and I know I've made some crap beers on it...

Anyway.. just my $0.02


----------



## Jono_w

schooey said:


> See that's the thing; Really good gear doesn't necessarily mean really good beer.
> 
> Not taking anything away from Johnathon. I love his setup and I'm a little green with envy. I can appreciate his passion for tinkering with things mechanacil and the level of perfection he has strived for in it. Not taking anything away from his ability to brew either, never tasted any of his beers, but I'm sure they're great.
> 
> My point is, some of the best beers I've been fortunate enough to taste at comps, given to me or I've got from case swaps have been made on the most basic of setups. My own setup is fairly automated from the norm, and I know I've made some crap beers on it...
> 
> Anyway.. just my $0.02



Fair enough Schooey.
Lets hope i do make a good one or two and then replicating those recipes should be made a lot easier being fairly automated.


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo, I'm on it mate ill get a few more photo's up soon to feed your fetish.

hockadays, yeah i think ill have to look into the yeast situation!

boingk, cheers mate.

beerforal, yeah i like the idea of a laser cut falsie, have to design one up and get a quote, thanks for that bit of info very handy.

Beernut, nice mate.

pmolou, fresh wort kits could well be a possibility...


----------



## schooey

Jonathon said:


> Fair enough Schooey.
> Lets hope i do make a good one or two and then replicating those recipes should be made a lot easier being fairly automated.



That's an excellent point, Johnathon, with so many variables it's great to get some shifting towards constants


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Jonathon I hope you don't mind me asking but are you married?  Because if tried doing something like that the wife would be out the door quick smart! It's hard enough getting on here and trying to read a few threads! 

And OMG I'm so wanting a setup like that!!!! :super: Only about half the size though.  

Keep those pics coming.


----------



## Jono_w

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Jonathon I hope you don't mind me asking but are you married?  Because if tried doing something like that the wife would be out the door quick smart! It's hard enough getting on here and trying to read a few threads!
> 
> And OMG I'm so wanting a setup like that!!!! :super: Only about half the size though.
> 
> Keep those pics coming.



Hey Crazy,
Nope not married, she will be an understanding wife or none at all!


----------



## chappo1970

Jonathon said:


> Chappo, I'm on it mate ill get a few more photo's up soon to feed your fetish.



:super: <Start Chant> :super: 
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!

:super: 


YOU PROMISED...
Please don't make me beg.... cause I will?


----------



## chappo1970

Jonathon said:


> Chappo, I'm on it mate ill get a few more photo's up soon to feed your fetish.


!BUMP!

Been a month Jonno!

Soon we start breaking legs if you don't give us what we want! Oh yeah we know were you live! Just give us the beer porn and this alllll goes away.

:super: <Start Chant> :super: 
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!
BEER PORN!

:super: 


YOU PROMISED!!!!

NOTE: For those that haven't seen Jonno's magnificent work start at page one and walk all the thru to here. Bet ya $10 bucks you go weak at the knees.


----------



## Jono_w

not my legs! i need them to walk to the fridge.. ill have some pics of the control panel tomorrow night, and ill try find some other interesting bits for you.


----------



## technocat

Jonathon said:


> not my legs! i need them to walk to the fridge.. ill have some pics of the control panel tomorrow night, and ill try find some other interesting bits for you.




Hi jonothan

I am in the proccess of putting a control panel together and have been looking at solenoid valves to operate off timers and liquid sensors. Have been looking at irrigation valves with plastic bodys.......any thoughts on these?

Cheers


----------



## Jono_w

Beernut said:


> Hi jonothan
> 
> I am in the proccess of putting a control panel together and have been looking at solenoid valves to operate off timers and liquid sensors. Have been looking at irrigation valves with plastic bodys.......any thoughts on these?
> 
> Cheers



Hey Beernut,

I have used two types of valves before, the first system used electric/mechanical hydronic valves designed for HVAC they are made of brass and can handle up to 90deg c the new rig uses air actuated stainless ball valves. I think you may have trouble with the plastic and heat also they have crevices that grain and debris will get stuck in. Might be worth getting some manufacturers data.. I cant see a problem using them to fill HLT or to turn on cooling water but for wort i dont think they would be suitable..

Cheers.

edit: nnn key playig up


----------



## technocat

Yes I was thinking cold water only and View attachment 24875

have been looking at these for hot liquid,


----------



## Jono_w

Beernut said:


> Yes I was thinking cold water only and View attachment 24875
> 
> have been looking at these for hot liquid,



The only problem i can see with those solenoid is that they are interally piloted, problems with them is debris blocks the pilot and they need at least 2psi to operate. A plunger style valve is better suited needs no pressure to operate and has no diaphragm.
cheers.


----------



## technocat

Hi Jonothan. Ok I am a bit out of my depth here as a solenoid valve is one piece of equipment I have never had on my bench. Electronics I know well as I trained in this area but the internal workings of a solenoid valve are all new ground. With that said not sure what internal piloting means so if you would, maybe you could indulge me in where I could obtain a suitable valve I would need for hot wort application with the field coil operating at 24VAC. As you can see I am getting bogged down in this area and would appreciate a little advice.


----------



## Jono_w

Beernut said:


> Hi Jonothan. Ok I am a bit out of my depth here as a solenoid valve is one piece of equipment I have never had on my bench. Electronics I know well as I trained in this area but the internal workings of a solenoid valve are all new ground. With that said not sure what internal piloting means so if you would, maybe you could indulge me in where I could obtain a suitable valve I would need for hot wort application with the field coil operating at 24VAC. As you can see I am getting bogged down in this area and would appreciate a little advice.




I have stripped down two different styles of solenoid valves for you. The Pilot style valve and a simple plunger style. You ca see that the plunger has less parts and no small orifices to get blocked. I hope this helps..
Cheers.


----------



## Jono_w

Hey guys as promised here is a picture of the control gear mounted up, slowly getting there..




cheers.


----------



## chappo1970

Ahhh that's better! But where's the rest?


----------



## technocat

Thanks Jonothan you went to a lot of trouble. Just got to find where I can source these. That panel looks like a high voltage setup.

Cheers


----------



## Jono_w

Beernut said:


> Thanks Jonothan you went to a lot of trouble. Just got to find where I can source these. That panel looks like a high voltage setup.
> 
> Cheers



Got your fix Chappo?? ahaha more to come.

No trouble at all Beernut, I know if someone had showed me things like this would have saved alot of time. Ebay is always good for bits like that even ebay America doesn't take too long..


----------



## chappo1970

Hey Jonno I hope your typing with one hand and have a welder WELDING in the other? <_< 

Don't force me to start the chant again because I will! :lol:


----------



## Supra-Jim

Chappo said:


> Hey Jonno I hope your typing with one hand and have a welder WELDING in the other? <_<



Yeah and uh Chappo, i hope you've moved your computer out to the garage and are typing your posts inbetween assembling your brew rig!!! And then testing your brew rig!!! You've got a little work ahead of old boy!  

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## chappo1970

Dah dah da da!!! Hey, what, huh? Errr... yep I'm right on to it SJ. Now where did I leave those destructions? Damn alzheimers!
SO anyway...
What was I saying again?
Oh yes that's right BEERS!


----------



## roger mellie

Jonathon said:


> Hey guys as promised here is a picture of the control gear mounted up, slowly getting there..
> 
> View attachment 24921
> 
> 
> cheers.



Heheh - Impressive

you have to call this the 'maximum overkill' control system. SLC500 perfectly capable of controlling a medium size factory. 

Whats your budget Jonathon? What HMI are you going to bolt on to this?

Very impressive.

RM


----------



## Jono_w

roger mellie said:


> Heheh - Impressive
> 
> you have to call this the 'maximum overkill' control system. SLC500 perfectly capable of controlling a medium size factory.
> 
> Whats your budget Jonathon? What HMI are you going to bolt on to this?
> 
> Very impressive.
> 
> RM



Overkill! Never. 
All of the control gear was purchased on eBay, I bought the stainless cabinet full of stuff and 4 linear robots that were decommissioned from a major bakery. 
The plc from memory was $350 plus the rtd temp probe module was $100 from the states. These plc's are very cheap second hand. 

I would say the budget so far would be close to $3000 (not including buy a tig welder)




So Chappo, Sounds like you need to do a less conversation and a little more action!!

cheers..


----------



## Jono_w

Roger,

The HMI (humanmachine interface ) is a custom interface I have written in visual basic, trying to source a cheap touch screen as we speak. Just lost one on eBay


----------



## Crazy

Jonathon said:


> Overkill! Never.
> All of the control gear was purchased on eBay, I bought the stainless cabinet full of stuff and 4 linear robots that were decommissioned from a major bakery.
> The plc from memory was $350 plus the rtd temp probe module was $100 from the states. These plc's are very cheap second hand.
> 
> I would say the budget so far would be close to $3000 (not including buy a tig welder)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Chappo, Sounds like you need to do a less conversation and a little more action!!
> 
> cheers..




Jonathon

I have just commisioned the fourth generation of my brewery and am also using an SLC PLC (including panelview 1400). I however havn't managed to get my hands on the rtd card and have to use temp controllers as the interface to the plc. I have even looked at rtd to 4-20ma signal conditioners but even these are expencive. Did you just buy RTD the card from ebay or have you found a better source?

Regards Derrick


----------



## Jono_w

Derrick said:


> Jonathon
> 
> I have just commisioned the fourth generation of my brewery and am also using an SLC PLC (including panelview 1400). I however havn't managed to get my hands on the rtd card and have to use temp controllers as the interface to the plc. I have even looked at rtd to 4-20ma signal conditioners but even these are expencive. Did you just buy RTD the card from ebay or have you found a better source?
> 
> Regards Derrick



Hi Derrick,
Sounds like a interesting project.
I cant recall the store I purchased the card from but it was on eBay. Fibreoz often have some slc500 gear 
I should be able to find the recipt somwhere..I do recall there was only 1 available at the time. They do save alot of equipment and they do all the coverting on board. Very handy..

Here is one i just found, $400 bit more than i spent though.. eBay Item number: 300294857050	
Link

Cheers..
Jonathon


----------



## Crazy

Jonathon said:


> Hi Derrick,
> Sounds like a interesting project.
> I cant recall the store I purchased the card from but it was on eBay. Fibreoz often have some slc500 gear
> I should be able to find the recipt somwhere..I do recall there was only 1 available at the time. They do save alot of equipment and they do all the coverting on board. Very handy..
> 
> Here is one i just found, $400 bit more than i spent though.. eBay Item number: 300294857050
> Link
> 
> Cheers..
> Jonathon



Yeh unlike you I am married with kids so my entire project is supplied by second hand gear and favours owed. I found a couple around the hundred and fifty mark plus postage. I have a spare three SLC racks complete with a range of cards so I might have to try to sell some of these to fund an RTD card.

Derrick


----------



## Jono_w

Derrick said:


> Yeh unlike you I am married with kids so my entire project is supplied by second hand gear and favours owed. I found a couple around the hundred and fifty mark plus postage. I have a spare three SLC racks complete with a range of cards so I might have to try to sell some of these to fund an RTD card.
> 
> Derrick



Really! You dont have a processor with ethernet do you?


----------



## roger mellie

Jonathon said:


> Really! You dont have a processor with ethernet do you?



Heheh

You didnt buy the cheap 5/03 did you mate? You need the 5/05 processor.

And it would seem a shame to go and bolt on a cheap and nasty touch screen running a VB script - for a couple of grand you can pick up a 11" touch screen with Intouch on it - trends/historical data all built in. Go the whole hog.

Im just jealous - I configure control systems for hydrochem plants all day every day - and my brewery is 100% manual.

Hell - I dont even own a March Pump. :unsure:

RM


----------



## Jono_w

roger mellie said:


> Heheh
> 
> You didnt buy the cheap 5/03 did you mate? You need the 5/05 processor.
> 
> And it would seem a shame to go and bolt on a cheap and nasty touch screen running a VB script - for a couple of grand you can pick up a 11" touch screen with Intouch on it - trends/historical data all built in. Go the whole hog.
> 
> Im just jealous - I configure control systems for hydrochem plants all day every day - and my brewery is 100% manual.
> 
> Hell - I dont even own a March Pump. :unsure:
> 
> RM



Yeah 5/03, it only has one serial port and I need serial for both HMI and the variable speed drive. Ill get around it some how...Or find a 5/05. Couple of grand!! I can get a touch screen for $250 and a little eeepc running vb. Sweet. Although an industrial touchscreen would be nice...


----------



## Crazy

Jonathon said:


> Yeah 5/03, it only has one serial port and I need serial for both HMI and the variable speed drive. Ill get around it some how...Or find a 5/05. Couple of grand!! I can get a touch screen for $250 and a little eeepc running vb. Sweet. Although an industrial touchscreen would be nice...




I have two 504 and two 503 but no ethernet. All the processors have DH+ however which is also what the panelview runs on. You could always run the vf drive on analogue. Just out of curiosity what is the vf drive for?


----------



## roger mellie

Jonathon said:


> Yeah 5/03, it only has one serial port and I need serial for both HMI and the variable speed drive. Ill get around it some how...Or find a 5/05. Couple of grand!! I can get a touch screen for $250 and a little eeepc running vb. Sweet. Although an industrial touchscreen would be nice...



DH+ is a highway system - you can have several nodes - have seen them with 20 odd PLC's and stuff hanging off the 485 net.

And derrick is right - a) what need is there for a VSD ? Variable flow? Try a valve? and B) you would be better off with a 4 - 20 output in any case.

I will stick to my Esky and infusion mash system for now I think.

Good luck with it.

RM


----------



## devo

my cats breath smells like cat food :huh:


----------



## KHB

devo said:


> my cats breath smells like cat food :huh:


+1


----------



## Jono_w

The VFD is for the Mash tun Mixer. I have DH+ but the cards are expensive for laptops so serial it is, and yeah analog out to drive.

Thanks for the heads up Devo...


----------



## litre_o_cola

devo said:


> my cats breath smells like cat food :huh:


Ralph???

All I can say is a big fat WOW....... That is the cleanest setup I have seen on here and I can tell you now I would die a happy man with that, looks like I will die miserable......


----------



## Crazy

Jonathon said:


> The VFD is for the Mash tun Mixer. I have DH+ but the cards are expensive for laptops so serial it is, and yeah analog out to drive.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up Devo...



The panelview also has a serial RS232 for upload and download.


----------



## Jono_w

March Update..

Hello Brewers,

Cleaned up the control cabinet and mounted control gear, next move is to connect all the external devices to the cabinet and make the skid under the 
whole brewery. I want put a partition in the right hand side of the cabinet with shelves for all of my brewing gear. Sorry about the crappy photo's my "shock proof" camera is not as shock proof as they claim..

cheers.


----------



## chappo1970

About bloody time Johnno you posted some beer porn up here for me mate. I was only thinking it was getting close to rousin you up for some more.

As usual :icon_drool2: Johnno has the best beer porn goin' on the net.

I'm gunna a buy me an aeroplane ticket and see that thing in the flesh one of these days. I reckon you have your calling son! Well done!


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> About bloody time Johnno you posted some beer porn up here for me mate. I was only thinking it was getting close to rousin you up for some more.
> 
> As usual :icon_drool2: Johnno has the best beer porn goin' on the net.
> 
> I'm gunna a buy me an aeroplane ticket and see that thing in the flesh one of these days. I reckon you have your calling son! Well done!



More than welcome mate, make sure you bring your scotch brites, plenty of polishing to be done!!


----------



## matti

mmmm Big red button :wub: 

Nice work!


----------



## chappo1970

I think I would be tooo busy humping the boilers leg! :lol: 

:blink: WTF?


----------



## Jono_w

matti said:


> mmmm Big red button :wub:
> 
> Nice work!



Brace yourself Matti!!






Chappo said:


> I think I would be tooo busy humping the boilers leg! :lol:
> 
> :blink: WTF?



hmm, as long as your wearing scothbrite pants!


----------



## lczaban

Chappo said:


> I think I would be tooo busy humping the boilers leg! :lol:
> 
> :blink: WTF?



:icon_offtopic: So now we know how you "popped your AG cherry".... B)


----------



## chappo1970

GravityGuru said:


> :icon_offtopic: So now we know how you "popped your AG cherry".... B)



BWAHAHAHAHA!

shhhh! Don't tell the SWMBO about my little man cave fetish!


----------



## lczaban

Chappo said:


> shhhh! Don't tell the SWMBO about my little man cave fetish!



Don't worry Chappo - your secret is safe with us... :icon_cheers: 

Lucky for you the trouble and strife was off looking at pretty trinkets while you and Chappo senior were checking out the EH Brewing beer porn in the flesh last Sunday, right?? :super:

Edit - sp aka passion fingers....


----------



## chappo1970

Jonathan it's beer porn time again you slacker!


----------



## Jono_w

Your right have put the brewery on the back burner this week, but hopefully today ill get a bit done..


----------



## gibbocore

Chappo's like the anti-wife that nags at you to do things but they are things that are really cool.


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo is our Personal Brew Coach..

I have a question about cooling wort, could I cool it through the heat exchanger while it is whirlpooling or will this cause strange things to happen and not separate properly?

cheers..


----------



## chappo1970

Stop stalling sh#tlips! Beer porn pronto Jonno or I'm stuffin' kittens in ya dip tubes  

Where's the pick up for the heat exchanger? The reason I ask my usual I usually flame out whirlpool rest for 30min or so and then run through the plate chiller. If it picks up from the bottom then ya gunna disturb the trub...(hold that chappo thought) better have a looky ABOUT 10 PAGES BACK!

EDIT: Ok I've had a look and I have concluded that the big red button needs to mounted in the middle of the control panel. Actually it looks like you are picking up from the bottom but can't be sure? Way to many shiny things. So I went out to the brew shed and I resoundly concluded my rig looks nothin' like yours and sucks ass...


----------



## WilBier

How about inserting an inline filter before the plate exchanger? This doesn't answer your question about the whirlpooling, but to prevent any just-in-cases entering the plate exchanger?
I was having a look at the setup at the local U-brew-it. After they are finished in the kettle, they pump straight through a filter, into a massive heat exchanger, then straight into the fermenter and pitch. 
They are however skipping the whirlpooling...


----------



## Jono_w

Pick up is on the bottom edge..
Ok, so maybe ill whirlpool for a set time and then straight through a filter to heatexchanger then to fermenters. 
Wil - What size filter element where they using?


----------



## WilBier

Jonathon said:


> Pick up is on the bottom edge..
> Ok, so maybe ill whirlpool for a set time and then straight through a filter to heatexchanger then to fermenters.
> Wil - What size filter element where they using?



That's a good question :unsure:
I'll go past on the way home today and play the "wow what's that thing!" card and take some photos.


----------



## Jono_w

Good work. 
Cheers..


----------



## WilBier

I had a look at the facilities today. They pump from the bottom of the kettle (so solids included) straight through a 300 micron bag filter then through a large stainless plate heat exchanger. The other side being chilled from a refrigerated chiller.  It goes from boiling down to pitching temp in 1 pass, but takes around 10 min for 50l. They clean out the bag filter all the time! I think they have all hop additions in a fish and chip style basket hanging in the kettle, so not all the hops go through the filter.


----------



## Jono_w

Today's progress:

I'm mounting the Mash mixer motor and gearbox under the Mash Tun. This is the tube that the mixer shaft will protrude.








Had a great day until my Tig welder started playing up..It wont start without me touching the work with the tip! @#&* it. Out of warranty too i reckon.

Cheers..


----------



## chappo1970

Nice jonno,

Have ya got tig sorted yet?

Now where's the real hard core stuff?

Come on mate cough it up!


Edit: piss typing again


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> Nice jonno,
> 
> Have ya got tig sorted yet?
> 
> Now where's the real hard core stuff?
> 
> Come on mate cough it up!
> 
> 
> Edit: piss typing again



Yeah mate got TIG going again, just needed a clean out.

Have been busy painting jet ski so brewery on back burner until after easter.
I was lucky enough to have scored some ex dairy tanks and pipe work and also a filter or to from a mate the other day though..


----------



## devo

pffft I don't see a flux capacitor? -_-


----------



## Jono_w

devo said:


> pffft I don't see a flux capacitor? -_-



Unfortunately the flux capacitor requires 1.21 gigawatts and my mains are not up to it..


----------



## mesa

Jonathon said:


> Chappo is our Personal Brew Coach..
> 
> I have a question about cooling wort, could I cool it through the heat exchanger while it is whirlpooling or will this cause strange things to happen and not separate properly?
> 
> cheers..


 
Do you mean to recirculate through the HX like JZ's whirlpool immersion chiller (http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php) which he suggests could also be done with a HX or do you mean to dump the wort through the HX while the whirlpool is still going on? Either way I think the answer is yes you can do it, and assuming you've got a stable whirlpool I'd say no stuff is getting into your HX. Which is not to say that I wouldn't put a filter on it to protect the HX, just that the filter shouldn't have to take much load if the whirlpool is working properly. If on the other hand you're recirculating through the HX I'd say you've lost all the advantages to a HX and you should spring for some copper pipe to make an immersion and avoid the problem of not being able to open the HX. Then again a big old lump of copper pipe won't like quite so nice next to all that stainless bling ;-)


----------



## Jono_w

mesa said:


> Do you mean to recirculate through the HX like JZ's whirlpool immersion chiller (http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php) which he suggests could also be done with a HX or do you mean to dump the wort through the HX while the whirlpool is still going on? Either way I think the answer is yes you can do it, and assuming you've got a stable whirlpool I'd say no stuff is getting into your HX. Which is not to say that I wouldn't put a filter on it to protect the HX, just that the filter shouldn't have to take much load if the whirlpool is working properly. If on the other hand you're recirculating through the HX I'd say you've lost all the advantages to a HX and you should spring for some copper pipe to make an immersion and avoid the problem of not being able to open the HX. Then again a big old lump of copper pipe won't like quite so nice next to all that stainless bling ;-)



I think ill keep it simple and whirlpool -> filter -> heat ex -> fementer.
I have the ability to try recirculating i guess so no harm in trying different processes.
cheers


----------



## chappo1970

errrr.... Your forgeting something? Beer porn johno? Don't make me ban you for 7 days now! Where's a Mod when ya need one huh? <_<


----------



## asis

???


----------



## Jono_w

asis said:


> ???



I'm guessing this is a bump?
Well today I actually did some more work on the control cabinet, got my Variable Speed Drive installed. Now all I need is a 1/2 hp 3 phase motor to drive the reduction gearbox on the mixer. Tomorrow i'm picking up the steel for the brewery skid to mount everything on.
Cheers.


----------



## chappo1970

Photo's Jonno!

You know the rules <_<


----------



## Jono_w

Ok so starting to get into it again.
Got all the steel for the Brewery base today and started welding it together 75 x 50 x 3 RHS.




The new PowerFlex VSD (thanks eBay)



A friend of mine is building a new dairy and offered me the old one!! Of course I was there in a flash..



My brother removing filters...



Until next time....

Cheers
Jonathon


----------



## Jono_w

Wahoo, 

Got my 15" touch screen for the control cabinet .. 



Its all coming together nicely mwaaaa!!


----------



## chappo1970

Lookin' great Jonno. Thanks for the update. BTW when do you think you will be firing this bad boy up?


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> Lookin' great Jonno. Thanks for the update. BTW when do you think you will be firing this bad boy up?



If all goes well i hope to have it operating late July, well that's the deadline I've had put to me by my mates who are sick of waiting..


----------



## PHARSYDE

Well start sending out the invites for openning night Jonno?? I think you may have a few fellow brewers flying over to see this awesome rig in person! haha

Anyways great setup and look forward to the end result?

Cheers

Liam


----------



## Jono_w

PHARSYDE said:


> Well start sending out the invites for openning night Jonno?? I think you may have a few fellow brewers flying over to see this awesome rig in person! haha
> 
> Anyways great setup and look forward to the end result?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Liam



Yeah sure, 
Obviously there will be an open invitation for AHB members. Might have to put the date back a bit so I can perfect the process and learn how to brew a decent beer, otherwise it will be BYO... bahah..


----------



## brendo

Jonathon said:


> Yeah sure,
> Obviously there will be an open invitation for AHB members. Might have to put the date back a bit so I can perfect the process and learn how to brew a decent beer, otherwise it will be BYO... bahah..



it would be horrifying if after all this work it produced crap beer  

I love following this thread and look forward to seeing pictures of the finished beast!!

brendo


----------



## Jono_w

brendo said:


> it would be horrifying if after all this work it produced crap beer



Yes, yes it would, but I'm confident with the help of AHB I can brew something up. 
After visiting Zwickel while i was traveling europe I have decided to brew his Pilsner as my maiden brew, top drop....
Building it keeps me busy and off the streets anyway! :icon_cheers:


----------



## clean brewer

Hey Jonathon,

Have you actually brewed before or is this the "BIG ONE"..

:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## Jono_w

clean brewer said:


> Hey Jonathon,
> 
> Have you actually brewed before or is this the "BIG ONE"..
> 
> :icon_cheers: CB



Yeah I've brewed about 30 batches through the 50L RIMS brewery. 
Not as many as I would like before i start brewing 200L.


----------



## Zwickel

Jonathon said:


> Zwickel while i was traveling europe I have decided to brew his Pilsner as my maiden brew, top drop....



Jonathon, thanks mate for the compliment.



> Building it keeps me busy and off the streets anyway! :icon_cheers:



much to the regret of the girls :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Rex

Jonathon said:


> If all goes well i hope to have it operating late July, well that's the deadline I've had put to me by my mates who are sick of waiting..



Cool stuff! Where did you get to with the fermenters? My dream is to have a 100L jacketed conical or two ;-)


----------



## Jono_w

Rex said:


> Cool stuff! Where did you get to with the fermenters? My dream is to have a 100L jacketed conical or two ;-)



Well we have priced some 500mm conicals from Toledo Spinning, if your interested i could send you some info. They would still need legs and tanks welded to them..


----------



## Jono_w

Fellow brewers,

I have a question on Cleaning. 
An automated brewery would not be complete without automated cleaning or CIP (Clean in pace).
I have two small Peristaltic pumps and my plan is after the brew is complete to recycle maybe 50L of the hot water from the heat exchanger back into the 
hot liquor tank, Add a measured amount of cleaner and then circulate, dump and do again with sanitizer.

Both cleaning and sanitizing agents need to be liquids so i can dose them with pumps , what two would be best?

Cheers


----------



## Zwickel

Jonathon, Im filling the MLT with hot water and add caustic soda to it (3% solution), then connect the MLT to the pump, to the plate heat exchanger and back via sparg arm into the MLT. Leave it recirculating for 30min, turn the stirrer to its highest speed, so the caustic splashes to everywhere.
After that, pump the hot caustic into the HLT and from there to where ever you need it.

After all, do the same with hot citric acid. Citric acid is not meant as a cleaner, it removes the film that caustic soda leaves on the surface of the gear and neutralizes some remaining leach.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## Crazy

Jonathon said:


> Well we have priced some 500mm conicals from Toledo Spinning, if your interested i could send you some info. They would still need legs and tanks welded to them..




Jonathon

What do these end up costing delivered as I am thinking on a similar vain?

Regards Derrick


----------



## Rex

Jonathon said:


> Well we have priced some 500mm conicals from Toledo Spinning, if your interested i could send you some info. They would still need legs and tanks welded to them..



Yeah, I'm interested... How will you do the jacketing? One conical inside another i guess?


----------



## Jono_w

http://www.toledometalspinning.com/pdfs/TMS20514.pdf

Which is a 20 inch hopper.

for over 10 units they are around $300 each delivered. with aussie dollar buying .74 USD

I was not going to have them double wall just have them in a temp controlled room, too much work building them otherwise.

cheers


----------



## Rex

Jonathon said:


> I was not going to have them double wall just have them in a temp controlled room, too much work building them otherwise.



I don't have the space for a cool room. And already have some gear I can use for doing the liquid cooling. So jacketing is really the only option at the moment.


----------



## Jono_w

Rex said:


> I don't have the space for a cool room. And already have some gear I can use for doing the liquid cooling. So jacketing is really the only option at the moment.



well you could always have a stainless coil welded inside the cone and run coolant through it.


----------



## Jono_w

Zwickel said:


> Jonathon, Im filling the MLT with hot water and add caustic soda to it (3% solution), then connect the MLT to the pump, to the plate heat exchanger and back via sparg arm into the MLT. Leave it recirculating for 30min, turn the stirrer to its highest speed, so the caustic splashes to everywhere.
> After that, pump the hot caustic into the HLT and from there to where ever you need it.
> 
> After all, do the same with hot citric acid. Citric acid is not meant as a cleaner, it removes the film that caustic soda leaves on the surface of the gear and neutralizes some remaining leach.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



I like it Zwickel, 
Can you get liquid caustic?


----------



## Rex

Jonathon said:


> well you could always have a stainless coil welded inside the cone and run coolant through it.



Nasty to keep clean though.

Have you seen this article: http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Brewpastor/J...le_for_Zymurgy/


----------



## Zwickel

Jonathon said:


> I like it Zwickel,
> Can you get liquid caustic?


yes I can. I have caustic here in liquid as well as powder.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## beerbrewer76543

Hey Jonathon, I'm wondering about the rubber seals on your heating elements leaching flavour into the wort during the boil

I'm looking at a similar setup and wanted to know if it would be an issue...

Nice setup by the way


----------



## Jono_w

L_Bomb said:


> Hey Jonathon, I'm wondering about the rubber seals on your heating elements leaching flavour into the wort during the boil
> 
> I'm looking at a similar setup and wanted to know if it would be an issue...
> 
> Nice setup by the way



L_Bomb

I have used these same elements on my previous setup and never noticed any rubbery flavors. 
A lot of other guys on here also use them maybe they have? 
I would be very surprised if it was at all noticeable?

Cheers .
Jono


----------



## beerbrewer76543

Thanks Jono

Where did you source yours from? Ive found some on ebay for $38 delivered... I'll have to go 1.8kW as I'm 10 amp limited


----------



## Jono_w

I get mine from a local electrical wholesaler 4.8kw's are around $50..
$38 for a 1.8kw sounds about right.


----------



## hockadays

something to consider though is the cleaning solution your using and how this reacts to the rubber and also the actual element. I was chatting to a guy at stokes and he said the element should be at least SS if your using caustic cleaners etc.


----------



## Jono_w

hockadays said:


> something to consider though is the cleaning solution your using and how this reacts to the rubber and also the actual element. I was chatting to a guy at stokes and he said the element should be at least SS if your using caustic cleaners etc.



Good point! hmm, might be worth giving stokes a call i think , cheers Hock.

So been busy tacking Skid together, all the tanks are mounted nice and solid now. Next is to run the 16 air lines from the solenoid block to the valves.








Cheers..


----------



## Tony

Thats looking great!

Do you think march pumps will be big enough?

I hate waiting for mine to transfer and i only make 50 liters in a go.

cheers

Edit............ i guess a march pump at full throttle in your system is like mine throttled back with a ball valve in mine so should be fine.


----------



## Jono_w

Tony said:


> Thats looking great!
> 
> Do you think march pumps will be big enough?
> 
> I hate waiting for mine to transfer and i only make 50 liters in a go.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Edit............ i guess a march pump at full throttle in your system is like mine throttled back with a ball valve in mine so should be fine.



Tony that's a question I can only answer once its up and running, I do have my doubts though, especially with the one for the kettle whirlpool. Myabe there will a couple of very new March 809's going cheap!!


----------



## Tony

Mate i doubt it will wirlpool that moster you've built. I dont have enough confidence in their flow rate to wirlpool 50 liters.

Not that it maters as i draw fron the center bottom anyway.

Have you considered a FB in the kettle as aposed to wirlpool. Mine holds up hop pellets no problems and drains every last drop. As long as flow is slow and steady it works great.

Im trying to get my hands on a carlton vessel to have its base welded into the base of my 18 gallon keg to replace the grand canyon in it. I can then put a False Bottom in it and drain it like my smaller 50 liter kettle.

cheers


----------



## Mantis

Havent come across this thread before, and WOW, what a setup. 

I am one of those herortics that doesnt sparge, pump or chill , but that is one great looking brewery, and full of SS bling.

None of that dull aluminium rubbish h34r:


----------



## Jono_w

I was going to have a hop stopper of sorts but a full falsie would be a pain to clean, the idea is to have a fully automated brew, no manual intervention at all, so i want to be able to wash out the trub automatically.


----------



## Pumpy

Jonathon said:


> well you could always have a stainless coil welded inside the cone and run coolant through it.



Jonathon,

Suggest you get some Solar tubing to adhere to the tank and pumps some water through it 

This is my version 


Pumpy


----------



## Jono_w

Mantis said:


> Havent come across this thread before, and WOW, what a setup.
> 
> I am one of those herortics that doesnt sparge, pump or chill , but that is one great looking brewery, and full of SS bling.
> 
> None of that dull aluminium rubbish h34r:



And you have more than likely produced a lot more beer than me mate, keep it simple i say or its a long time between home brews. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

That is sweet tubing Pumpy, where do you get that from?


----------



## Pumpy

Jonathon said:


> That is sweet tubing Pumpy, where do you get that from?



I saw the same set up at the lord Nelson brew Pub in the rocks ,go for a brewery tour and see 

It is called Solar absorber from Zane 


http://www.zane.com.au/html/home.htm

You need a couple of manifolds and the absorber, dead easy to fit to your tanks 


Pumpy


----------



## Jono_w

Pumpy said:


> I saw the same set up at the lord Nelson brew Pub in the rocks ,go for a brewery tour and see



Might have to plan that into a holiday, few thousand k's away..
Looks good though i could even have some on the roof to preheat my brew water.
cheers.


----------



## Justin

I'll just throw in a note to second Tony's comments about the whirlpool. There is no way you'll get a decent enough flow rate to generate any sort of whirlpool in your kettle with a March, it's borderline in 40L- well actually not borderline, it's underpowered in 40L but it can at least get some movement but it's very critical on outlet placement and direction. I mainly use it for movement over my immersion chiller so I dont have to keep stirring. I wouldn't count on it creating a proper whirlpool and I always give it a helping hand with a stainless spoon. In your case, definitely not.

Sounds like you have probably already spotted that the march pumps will probably under perform in your brewery. I'm not sure you will get sufficient flow rates to make quick transfers but maybe it will be enough. Maybe you should up the capabilities of you peristaltic pump by bolting a number of heads together and running them in parallel with a grunty motor. Otherwise source some bigger pumps. Dairies would be a good source.

Anyway good luck with it. It's looking great.


----------



## chappo1970

Jonno your lucky mate I was about to start nagging!!!

BTW :icon_drool2: Nice... looking really nice!

You need to set a date to fire this baby up mate! I would be keen to make the effort to see the maiden voyage.

Cheers

Chappo


----------



## T.D.

Jonathon said:


> the idea is to have a fully automated brew, no manual intervention at all



I don't want to sound like a party pooper here, but if this is what you are going for why don't you just go and buy craftbrew from the local bottlo?

For me, I enjoy the brewing bit probably more than the drinking. 

Cool experiment all the same, it does look fancy and you have done a great job, but I must say this kind of thing is not for me...


----------



## gibbocore

T.D. said:


> I don't want to sound like a party pooper here


Then don't.



> but I must say



Nahhh, you don't really have to.


----------



## Zizzle

T.D. said:


> I don't want to sound like a party pooper here, but if this is what you are going for why don't you just go and buy craftbrew from the local bottlo?



Come off it.

Price per beer is not even in the same ball park.

The challenge/fun/experimentation/art/anticipation of crafting one's own recipes is not diminished.

The range of beer styles is not comparable.

Some off us prefer to and actually enjoy putting our brains and hands to work on coming up on a solution to work smarter not harder. Jeez where would humanity be without that.

Let's face it, most of brewing is absolute monkey work after the first couple of brews. We aim for consistency, not random results. Take the boring tedious human factor out of it: win win.

Some of us actually would prefer to be shagging our missus than constantly dipping our thermometer into a big bucket of warm barley porridge (visual imagery pun fully intended).

Bloody good on you Jonathan for pushing the limits and raising the bar rather than being some dumb-shit monkey thermometer-dipper. It's inspirational.

If you fully enjoy doing it the manual way and have nothing better to do, then good on you, each to their own. Just don't pretend you're special or have the right to tell us it's the only way. You probably have nothing new or interesting to show us, please don't stop those that do.


----------



## T.D.

Zizzle said:


> Some of us actually would prefer to be shagging our missus



I'm sure you could get some kind of automated contraption for that too if you wanted to. Precisely my point, the fun is in the doing! 

I can understand automation if its a commercial brewery, but just seems a little counter-intuitive when its your hobby! So when people ask you "what is your hobby?" you answer "brewing" and they say "oh, so how does that work?" and you say "well, I press the green button and come back in 4 hours". Ok fine if that's your idea of a hobby, but for me I would rather do some of those torturous tasks of stirring and opening and shutting valves - I actually enjoy it!  

And I am not having a go at Jonathon - if you read my post you could see that.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

:icon_offtopic: TD better get your flame suit on the"mob" is angry.Funny how ones opinion sparks civil unrest?
Im a manual brewer as well, actually computer controlled heating and monitoring.The rest by hand, I love it.
GB


----------



## T.D.

Gryphon Brewing said:


> :icon_offtopic: TD better get your flame suit on the"mob" is angry.Funny how ones opinion sparks civil unrest?
> Im a manual brewer as well, actually computer controlled heating and monitoring.The rest by hand, I love it.
> GB



:lol: Yeah I think you may be right there! Think I might have struck a nerve!

I'm not saying people who want to automate their brewery are stupid, just that personally I don't see the point. To me the enjoyment of home brewing _IS_ the opening and closing valves, measuring temps, lighting burners and stirring mashes on a brewday. If I got up on a brewday and thought "ahh bugger, I have to brew a batch of beer today" and wished I had a fully automated brewery, I think it'd be time to give the game away! But that's just me, each to their own!


----------



## FNQ Bunyip

I see the automation of a brewers brewery as a continuation of there hobby , These guys like playing with more than one hobby / skill at the same time ... I don't think Rob just hooked up all his bits and went off to work and hoped his brewery would be ok too brew by phone , I'm sure he has spent untold hours getting it right... I know Zizz got heaps of personal enjoyment out of building the brewbot , hours wrighting code , building his own actuators ect ect ,, its just thaking it too the next level...

Keep up the home built auto work , Ilove reading these posts , even if alot of the tech stuff gos right over my head ... 

cheers


----------



## Polar Beer

Zizzle said:


> Some of us actually would prefer to be shagging our missus than constantly dipping our thermometer into a big bucket of warm barley porridge (visual imagery pun fully intended).



I concur Zizzle. But surely this magnificent brewry and a shagable missus are mutually exlcusive? Johnathan, please confirm. If you have managed to build this and keep a wife happy, then I also assume you are welding the joints with lasers from your eyes.


----------



## LethalCorpse

Bunyip's right, TD, for some of us, brewing is only one of our many hobbies. If you're electrically/mechanically inclined, it's far too big a temptation to resist applying those skills to brewing. At the end of the day, you're still heavily involved in the brewing process - even if it's mostly just watching the machines go ping, longneck in hand.


----------



## chappo1970

T.D. said:


> ...I'm not saying people who want to automate their brewery are stupid, just that personally I don't see the point. To me the enjoyment of home brewing _IS_ the opening and closing valves, measuring temps, lighting burners and stirring mashes on a brewday. If I got up on a brewday and thought "ahh bugger, I have to brew a batch of beer today" and wished I had a fully automated brewery, I think it'd be time to give the game away! But that's just me, each to their own!



Pffft! No use in backing down now TD! :lol: I can hear the pitch forks being sharpened in the back ground...


----------



## muckey

Chappo said:


> Pffft! No use in backing down now TD! :lol: I can hear the pitch forks being sharpened in the back ground...




c'mon leave him alone IGOR chappo :lol:


----------



## technocat

LethalCorpse said:


> Bunyip's right, TD, for some of us, brewing is only one of our many hobbies. If you're electrically/mechanically inclined, it's far too big a temptation to resist applying those skills to brewing. At the end of the day, you're still heavily involved in the brewing process - even if it's mostly just watching the machines go ping, longneck in hand.



I agree LC if you have worked most of your life in one thing or another it is only natural you apply the science you have learned along the way to a hobby no matter what it is as a compliment to improve it. Being in an Electrical or Electronic trade makes automation a lot easier as the understanding of it just takes your hobby to another level.


----------



## chappo1970

:lol:


----------



## benno1973

T.D. said:


> I'm not saying people who want to automate their brewery are stupid, just that personally I don't see the point. To me the enjoyment of home brewing _IS_ the opening and closing valves, measuring temps, lighting burners and stirring mashes on a brewday. If I got up on a brewday and thought "ahh bugger, I have to brew a batch of beer today" and wished I had a fully automated brewery, I think it'd be time to give the game away! But that's just me, each to their own!



Yeh, I see your point, but I think that (as others have said) the fun part of the hobby *can* be automating it (for people that like to do that sort of stuff). I love brewing, but if I had enough nous to be able to automate a brewery, you can guarantee that that would be taking up all my precious brewing time. The aim would be to be able to produce beer with reproducable results every time, although once I finished the brewery I'd probably realise that all the fun was in setting it up!

Lucky I don't have enough nous!


----------



## T.D.

Why am I not surprised at this reaction???  

Seems you can only voice an opinion on this forum these days if its the right one... :wacko:


----------



## benno1973

T.D. said:


> Seems you can only voice an opinion on this forum these days if its the right one... :wacko:



No, but you have to accept that there will be differing opinions. As I said, I understand your view but just pointed out the reasons why some people automated their setups. I don't think that there was too much flaming going on here? Especially seeing as you suggested his needs would be better served by buying craft beer from the bottlo! :lol:


----------



## T.D.

Kaiser Soze said:


> Yeh, I see your point, but I think that (as others have said) the fun part of the hobby *can* be automating it (for people that like to do that sort of stuff). I love brewing, but if I had enough nous to be able to automate a brewery, you can guarantee that that would be taking up all my precious brewing time. The aim would be to be able to produce beer with reproducable results every time, although once I finished the brewery I'd probably realise that all the fun was in setting it up!
> 
> Lucky I don't have enough nous!



Yeah I totally agree, I enjoy tinkering with my brewery as much as anyone, and building stuff is part of the hobby for sure. But in this case if the intention is to build a brewery that requires almost no input from the brewer then I think it will make for a very boring brew day.

I brew because I enjoy the creative process of handcrafting a beer from start to finish, not letting a computer do it for me. But as I keep saying, that's just MY OPINION.


----------



## Jerry

Jonathon said:


> Cheers Pumpy,
> 
> It is a lot of beer, as many of us on this forum I have aspirations to produce commercially.
> 
> Jonathon



I think this answers the question of why Jonathon is building his brewery this way.

Bloody impressive by the way Jonathon. :beerbang: 

Scott


----------



## warrenlw63

I'll put a slightly differing slant on it. For the cost of all the bits and bobs of a fully automated brewery (and my guess is it wouldn't be cheap). Try to equate it to what you could be buying in grains and hops for the same amount. My guess is you'd be set for a couple of years.

Know what I'd rather be doing. :icon_cheers: 

Warren -


----------



## T.D.

Kaiser Soze said:


> No, but you have to accept that there will be differing opinions. As I said, I understand your view but just pointed out the reasons why some people automated their setups. I don't think that there was too much flaming going on here? Especially seeing as you suggested his needs would be better served by buying craft beer from the bottlo! :lol:



I do mate, that's why I keep saying that this is just my view, but seems that isn't the way others think around here, or there wouldn't be so many flaming replies.

My comment about the bottlo was somewhat tongue in cheek - point being that if the objective is for the brewer to become less and less involved then why not just cut to the chase and just let somebody else do ALL of the brewing for you! The brewday is a huge component of the reason I brew my own beer, automation to some extent renders the brewday redundent...


----------



## T.D.

If the brewery is going to be used commercially then that's an entirely different matter.


----------



## LethalCorpse

Eh? There wasn't any flaming, except for GB and chappo saying you were _going_ to be flamed. The rest of us have just responded to your input with reasonable arguments for automation.


----------



## Jono_w

Morning, 
Just woke up from a night shift and have a look at this, you guys have been busy.

For me automation / mechanical / electrical engineering is my primary hobby, has been since i can remember. The fact that this latest project also has the capabilities to produce beer is just a bonus. I get a kick out of building things that I can control via technology, always have. If I wasn't building this I have 100's of other projects I would be working on. I have not ever made a kit beer, making beer has never been a hobby, but the process of all grain gave me an opportunity to use some of my automation skills.

So I will keep with the updates for those who are interested and for those that think its overkill or whatever, that's fine by me also. But where would the world be if everyone just did things the simplest and cheapest way? Each to there own.
I would rather not turn my post into a back and forth argument about whether I'm wasting money / time or whatever on this project. I'm all for discussion but keep it relevant.

Now I'm getting up and heading out to the shed to forget about swine flu, global warming, recession and a long night shift I have on the way..

Keep it nice guys..

This was an automated reply generated by Jonathon.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Well that silenced everybody!

I think it's an awesome project :beerbang: . If ever I get down to your part of the world Jonathon I'd love to drop in and see this creation in all it's real life glory.


----------



## Jono_w

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Well that silenced everybody!
> 
> I think it's an awesome project :beerbang: . If ever I get down to your part of the world Jonathon I'd love to drop in and see this creation in all it's real life glory.



It certainly did :icon_cheers: 

The offer is open to anyone keen to drop in for a beer (for now you may have to byo!) your more than welcome. 
Just don't lecture me about how boring its going to be brewing with this system!!!


----------



## clean brewer

I reckon if you have access to something, use it...  Im sure if anyone had the skills/$$$ that Jonathon obviously does, they would probably do the same thing.. :unsure: 

What would a Brewer do if he won a couple million dollars??? Keep using a 4 ring burner, a esky, a urn and a pot?? Dont think so..  

CB


----------



## bugwan

This thread is clearly about brewery automation. It's really not the place to waltz in and take a swing about how much better the manual process is...

In the meantime, I'm enjoying the stainless beauty!


----------



## Screwtop

I enjoy driving - my car has automatic transmission ................................. Just MY OPINION

Bloody groups of individuals :lol:


----------



## Sully

Screwtop said:


> I enjoy driving - my car has automatic transmission ................................. Just MY OPINION
> 
> Bloody groups of individuals :lol:





and Cruise Control :lol:

EDIT: BTW Jonathon lurve the brewrig build...


----------



## alowen474

It would appear that you still get to participate in the brewing process as much as before.
You still get your recipe, weigh all the ingredients.
Crush the grain ( I didn't see the built in roller mill, surely that's coming)
You still have to mash in.
You still have to empty the mush tun even though this one tips itself out conveniently for you.
You still get to add the hops at your liesure and enjoy that aroma.
You still get to drink the beer.
This beauty looks after the stuff such as temp control and flow rates the we always get wrong or vary inconsistently from batch to batch.
I bet you cant wait to take it for a spin.
Awesome!!


----------



## yardy

bloody nice job John :icon_chickcheers: 

my idea of hi tech is stepping up from a 5 litre jug to a march pump, and i'm struggling with that ! :lol: 

keep the pics and info coming

cheers


----------



## Jono_w

Cheers guys for the encouragement, 

Grain selection and addition along with hops addition will in time be automated but enjoying the hop aroma and drinking will never be lost to automation!

Here's what i have been up to, I have mounted the solenoid box and started running the air lines. The two filters on the right will be incorporated somewhere I'm thinking one for incoming water and the other for a pre heat exchanger filter from the kettle?


----------



## BennyBrewster

Looking awesome man.

When its finished you should video it in action and post some footage on youtube so we can all drool :icon_drool2:


----------



## Jono_w

BennyBrewster said:


> Looking awesome man.
> 
> When its finished you should video it in action and post some footage on youtube so we can all drool :icon_drool2:



Was thinking of a live webcam of the maiden brew.


----------



## BennyBrewster

Jonathon said:


> Was thinking of a live webcam of the maiden brew.



haha :icon_chickcheers: 

Hope you have some nice bandwidth, specially if you post a link here haha


----------



## devo

I've been following this thread since day dot and would have to say I can't wait to see this beast in action.


----------



## Jono_w

No pics today just a question.

A few people have enlightened me of the fact i'm going to need a lot of yeast. What do you people suggest? I have looked at building a yeast brink to propagate yeast in, Any ideas?

Cheers,


----------



## Zwickel

Jonathon, your yeast regime very depends on the beer style and the brewing frequency.

Beer style means, whether you do a bottom fermenting beer, such like Pilsener or Lager, or you do Ales, Wheat or other top fermenting beers.
Brewing frequency means, how often youre aiming to brew.

If youre going to brew Pilsener/Lager style beers, youd need around 2% of the batch size, viable, viscous yeast, that could be around 2l pure yeast per 100l of wort. Pitched cold.

For top fermenting beers youd need only 1/2 (half)% of the batch size, means a half a litre yeast per 100l of wort. Pitched warm.

If youd like to brew both styles of beer, Id suggest you to do a few brews of the same style in a row, so you may harvest the yeast and repitch it up to 8 times.

In any way, Id suggest you to start yeast farming and keep all your yeast strains on slants, thats the only (practicable) way to store yeast for longer time.

Cheers mate :icon_cheers:


----------



## hockadays

Maybe brew a batch on your old system ferment it out then pitch this into your bigger size batch.


----------



## raven19

As per Zwickel's comments, reusing yeast propogated from slants would be the way to go. You should be able to step up your yeast by up to 10x volume per step.

Id be taking off a sizable volume of yeast/trub (around 2L or more) from the first big batch then repitch for the next beer - assuming it is the right yeast for that batch.

Another option for brewing this size is to buy yeast in bulk and pitch.


----------



## Scruffy

Screwtop said:


> I enjoy driving - my car has automatic transmission ................................. Just MY OPINION
> 
> Bloody groups of individuals :lol:



In all cases I reckoned the car analogy to be flawless - and it took some thought in this case, you see half the fun of a blat round the country lanes of Avon in your TVR is to heave your way through the gears, using engine braking and selecting exactly when the power is brought in, power sliding out of corners and so on... not as much fun in an automatic...


Now, if you had BUILT YOUR OWN AUTOMATIC sports car on the other hand...

Case rested...



Awesome tunnage BTW... Very best of luck Mr Jonathon, sir...


----------



## T.D.

Scruffy said:


> In all cases I reckoned the car analogy to be flawless - and it took some thought in this case, you see half the fun of a blat round the country lanes of Avon in your TVR is to heave your way through the gears, using engine braking and selecting exactly when the power is brought in, power sliding out of corners and so on... not as much fun in an automatic...
> 
> 
> Now, if you had BUILT YOUR OWN AUTOMATIC sports car on the other hand...
> 
> Case rested...



But what if you built your own MANUAL sports car...?  :lol:


----------



## benno1973

Jonathon said:


> ...I have looked at building a yeast brink to propagate yeast in...



It's not like you've got any other projects going at the moment, so why not?... <_<


----------



## adraine

Its it possible for a AHB knighthood???????

I present Sir Johnathon of Automationville....

Very impressive setup mate keep up the good work.


----------



## mash head

Finally had the time to read this post from scratch. WOW This rig is looking awsome, some of the computer talk went over my head but the rest left me feeling slightly inadequate. Keep up the good work Jonnothan
Cheers Greg


----------



## PHARSYDE

Looks awesome Jonathon,

Watching in anticipation..... 

PHARSYDE


----------



## Offline

hockadays said:


> Maybe brew a batch on your old system ferment it out then pitch this into your bigger size batch.



I don't think he has an old system


----------



## Jono_w

Cheers guys sounds like I either have a lot to learn on the yeast side of things or I just import Zwickel as head brewer..



Scruffy said:


> In all cases I reckoned the car analogy to be flawless - and it took some thought in this case, you see half the fun of a blat round the country lanes of Avon in your TVR is to heave your way through the gears, using engine braking and selecting exactly when the power is brought in, power sliding out of corners and so on... not as much fun in an automatic...
> 
> 
> Now, if you had BUILT YOUR OWN AUTOMATIC sports car on the other hand...
> 
> Case rested...
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome tunnage BTW... Very best of luck Mr Jonathon, sir...



Couldn't agree more! I have built a highly modified Nissan 200sx turbo and there is no way it will ever see an auto gearbox!!



adraine said:


> Its it possible for a AHB knighthood???????
> 
> I present Sir Johnathon of Automationville....
> 
> Very impressive setup mate keep up the good work.



"Sir Johnathon of Automationville" That has a nice ring to it, I'm sure the ladies would be impressed! :lol: 

Cheers 

oh here is a tip:
DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN LCD TOUCH SCREENS!!! or do not work on brewery after 3, 12 hour night shifts and no sleep!! :angry:


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Jonathon said:


> oh here is a tip:
> DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN LCD TOUCH SCREENS!!! or do not work on brewery after 3, 12 hour night shifts and no sleep!! :angry:



Ouch, I hope it wasn't an expensive mistake :unsure: .

Farside.


----------



## Jono_w

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Ouch, I hope it wasn't an expensive mistake :unsure: .
> 
> Farside.



No one was hurt that's the main thing.


----------



## reg

Jonathon said:


> No one was hurt that's the main thing.


Yeah but is the brewery OK and Shiny still..... :lol: 

:icon_cheers: Reg


----------



## Jono_w

reg said:


> Yeah but is the brewery OK and Shiny still..... :lol:
> 
> :icon_cheers: Reg


Well.... it now has a big whole in it where the screen was going to go, now I have to find one the same size or bigger.. ebay.......


----------



## Jono_w

Brewers,

I am fairly confident that my current brazed plate heat exchanger is going to be too small and hard to clean, i have found this one, not many specs on it anyone have any idea if it would be appropriate?

cheers.


----------



## chappo1970

Jonathon said:


> Brewers,
> 
> I am fairly confident that my current brazed plate heat exchanger is going to be too small and hard to clean, i have found this one, not many specs on it anyone have any idea if it would be appropriate?
> 
> cheers.




As usual mate it's looking the bomb. Some how what your looking at is outside of us mere mortal brewers. If I could suggest maybe PMing Kirem, TB or screwy. Those guys prolly have a better idea for your size system.

Cheers

Chappo

BTW Keep up the good mate your an inspiration! Chap Chap


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

What if you split the outlet from the kettle and used 2 or more 30 plate chillers, like the ones from BB or mashmaster?

Farside.


----------



## Jono_w

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> What if you split the outlet from the kettle and used 2 or more 30 plate chillers, like the ones from BB or mashmaster?
> 
> Farside.



I have a 30 plate and running two would probably be adequate but I'm mostly concerned about the cleaning of it as the one in the link in able to be stripped down.


----------



## Jono_w

Brewers,

Iv'e come to a bit of a problem, I need a reduction gearbox and I cant find any. 

The Mashtun is going to have a set of fingers to slowly stir the mash. 
I have a 3 phase 1/2 hp vsd and motor but the gearbox I have is far too fast ~14:1. 
I'm looking for a reduction drive with or without motor that is more like 50:1.
Any help would be appreciated, I have looked through ebay but most suitable are pick up only and i'm 4 hours from Melbourne.

Cheers


----------



## LethalCorpse

Bike chain and sprockets. You might need a couple to get to 50:1.


----------



## alowen474

Jonathon said:


> I have a 30 plate and running two would probably be adequate but I'm mostly concerned about the cleaning of it as the one in the link in able to be stripped down.


I will be running two small heat exchangers, running cool water through both. The first should get it down to 30 odd degrees and the second to whatever the water temp. Your march pumps will limit the flow anyway. I would try putting one pump out of the kettle and one between the heat exchangers to push the beer along. Larger pumps are just over the $1K that can handle the 99 degree wort.

Cleaning the heat exchangers only requires a soak with PBW or hot caustic, then flush backwards with hot water.

Once cleanly rinsed, cycle boiling wort through the pumps and chillers to sterilise them at the end of the boil, then chill as normal.

That's what I am planning anyway.


----------



## Jono_w

LethalCorpse said:


> Bike chain and sprockets. You might need a couple to get to 50:1.



Lethal: Are you volunteering to do all the pedaling? :unsure: 



Sounds like a good plan beerforal, Ill just have to suck it and see..


----------



## alowen474

For your reduction, put a big pulley on your shaft and a v belt to a small pulley on your motor.
Less efficient than the chain drive, but much quieter and a little bit friendlier.
For 50:1 reduction, you want a 50mm pully on your motor and a 180mm pulley on your 14.1 gearbox

Bit of mucking around to mount the thing though.


----------



## Jono_w

beerforal said:


> For your reduction, put a big pulley on your shaft and a v belt to a small pulley on your motor.
> Less efficient than the chain drive, but much quieter and a little bit friendlier.
> For 50:1 reduction, you want a 50mm pully on your motor and a 180mm pulley on your 14.1 gearbox
> 
> Bit of mucking around to mount the thing though.



Yeah, I would like to keep it to a neat motor coupled directly to a 90deg reduction box, the only problem with the one I have is that the motor is going too slow and well out of its torque range. I think pulleys or chains would be a pain to set up.


----------



## Justin

I dont know if you are in the vicinity of any dairies but dairy auctions or closing dairies would likely have a heat exchanger suitable. Good chance there might be an old one floating around too as many people upgrade over the years. Plenty of dairies shutting down so could be worth a few visits?


----------



## Jono_w

Justin said:


> I dont know if you are in the vicinity of any dairies but dairy auctions or closing dairies would likely have a heat exchanger suitable. Good chance there might be an old one floating around too as many people upgrade over the years. Plenty of dairies shutting down so could be worth a few visits?



There are a few small dairies around my area I have already scavenged a lot of stainless goodies from one that was upgrading but the H/E was kept.
I think an ad in the Local paper would prob be the way to go.

Cheers.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

How about one of these from CBC bearings,

http://www.conbear.com/files/content.php?s...;sec3=motovario

They come in all sorts of reductions as they custom build for the application.


----------



## technocat

Jonathan: I have no idea the size of your Mash Tun and you appear to be committed to a finger type paddle, but to my mind I would have thought a worm (screw) type agitator would be the go as it would require less torque and less speed reduction. I could be wrong just a thought.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> How about one of these from CBC bearings,
> 
> http://www.conbear.com/files/content.php?s...;sec3=motovario
> 
> They come in all sorts of reductions as they custom build for the application.



They look good, Ill get a quote, could be interesting $$....



Beernut said:


> Jonathan: I have no idea the size of your Mash Tun and you appear to be committed to a finger type paddle, but to my mind I would have thought a worm (screw) type agitator would be the go as it would require less torque and less speed reduction. I could be wrong just a thought.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



This is similar to the mash fingers I will be using. A screw would also be an interesting option.


----------



## Jono_w

Not much on tv......
View attachment smlbrewery.bmp


----------



## Zwickel

Sir Johnathon

you really want to brew ordinary beer with that beautiful sculpture?

:icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Jono_w

"3d Virtual Online Brewing" Zwickel 
It's the latest craze


----------



## Jono_w

Question time.......

How should I return the wort from the HERMS to the top of the Mash tun? 

I was thinking, seeing it will be mixing most of the time i was just going to have a single outlet just under the wort level.
I really don't want anything that is in the way of the mixer.

Cheers...

By the way, it is bloody freezing in the shed today, but I must go on...


----------



## 3G

Yes, if its being mixed i cant see why a simple outlet just under the top(thru the side of the tun) of the wort wont work. With a decent flow (def. not an 809) throwing the wort away from the side of the tun.
It would be nice to have the height adjustable for high og beers. Are you batch or fly sparging


----------



## Jono_w

3G
I plan to batch sparge at this stage.
On the inside of the mash tun inlet i think ill put a tri-clover fitting so i can try different heights and setups.


----------



## 3G

yes, a triclover fitting will be awesome. What pump are you going to use? I use an 809 on a 50litre herms system and its only just powerful enough.


----------



## Jono_w

I'm using 809's also but word on the street is they may bee too small, we shall see.

have a look at about page 12 there is a pic of the pumps..


----------



## Jono_w

Hey brewers.

I have set up a youtube account and in the comming months will add a few vids of the brewery..



Cheers..


----------



## JSB

pass the tissues please! 

Looking forward to the first beer being crafted.

Cheers 
JSB


----------



## devo

Excellent stuff....now get the thing dirty!


----------



## Polar Beer

Jonathon said:


> Hey brewers.
> 
> I have set up a youtube account and in the comming months will add a few vids of the brewery..
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers..





Can't view youtube from here (work!), but can I suggest any video be set to Black Dog by Led Zeppelin. Because every time I see another photo of this sexy brewery that song kicks off in my head. 

"Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove."

:super:


----------



## eric8

It took a while to go through all this thread, but WOW was it worth it. I can't believe all of the fabricating you have done!! how awesome. I have trouble trying to get a fridgemate wired up, but all of that ............. speechless.

Well done Jonathan! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

JSB said:


> pass the tissues please!
> 
> Looking forward to the first beer being crafted.
> 
> Cheers
> JSB



The final brew day is slowly getting closer, i'm starting to get very thirsty...



devo said:


> Excellent stuff....now get the thing dirty!



But then I have to wash it! 



Polar Beer said:


> Can't view youtube from here (work!), but can I suggest any video be set to Black Dog by Led Zeppelin. Because every time I see another photo of this sexy brewery that song kicks off in my head.
> 
> "Hey, hey, mama, said the way you move
> Gonna make you sweat, gonna make you groove."
> 
> :super:



UH UH!! for sure sounds like a top suggestion... Now you have side tracked me watching Led Zepplin vids!! 



eric8 said:


> It took a while to go through all this thread, but WOW was it worth it. I can't believe all of the fabricating you have done!! how awesome. I have trouble trying to get a fridgemate wired up, but all of that ............. speechless.
> 
> Well done Jonathan! :icon_cheers:



Actually when I look back on the build I would hate to add up all the hours I have spent on each piece. Lucky I'm not paying for my own time.. 

Cheers guys..


----------



## Jono_w

Hey guys,
Things are coming together, slowly.
It came alive tonight with most of the wiring connected time now to finish off the programming and give it a trial run.
I have sourced a gearcase and motor for the mashtun I just need to complete the mixing arm and rakes but that can wait.
cheers..


----------



## clean brewer

> Actually when I look back on the build I would hate to add up all the hours I have spent on each piece. Lucky I'm not paying for my own time..
> 
> Cheers guys..



Do you have a rough figure on what you think the whole set-up is worth? Time/Labour/Equipment costs? Who will be drinking all this beer? Whats the fermentation schedule?

CB


----------



## Jono_w

clean brewer said:


> Do you have a rough figure on what you think the whole set-up is worth? Time/Labour/Equipment costs? Who will be drinking all this beer? Whats the fermentation schedule?
> 
> CB



I would not like to think too hard but I will have a bit of a run down soon, once I add it all up..

Labor I don't see as a cost as I'm the only one working on this project and working in the shed is my stress relief .
I have spent on average 4 hours a week since the beginning of this thread minus 6 months holiday last year .

Well I have a lot of brewing friends so I will look at providing wort kits to them but the plan is to move it into a bar/cafe and brew commercially, maybe a dream but I'm very committed. 

cheers..


----------



## Jono_w

Anyone speak french?
Small world huh...

LINK

Bonjour!


----------



## joshuahardie

Google translate may help

Clicky!!


----------



## chappo1970

Jonno,
Looking great there mate. It's got to be getting exciting now? How long till it's fully operational? Besides you better finish it off before your lost to your jetski, no?

BTW is that a Rat Rod in the background? Matt Black is very cool.

More photos please Jonno especially of the control box and screen.

Cheers

Chappo


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> Jonno,
> Looking great there mate. It's got to be getting exciting now? How long till it's fully operational? Besides you better finish it off before your lost to your jetski, no?
> 
> BTW is that a Rat Rod in the background? Matt Black is very cool.
> 
> More photos please Jonno especially of the control box and screen.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chappo



The excitement is growing, for sure.. I think it will be a month or two away depending on the surf!! 
The ute in the background is a Holden FJ in dark blue with a special 2 year dust pearl!

More photo's coming up!

Also new  is on youtube, I'm trying to upload a better quality and 16:9 version but for now this one will do..

Cheers.


----------



## kenlock

Jonathon said:


> The excitement is growing, for sure.. I think it will be a month or two away depending on the surf!!
> The ute in the background is a Holden FJ in dark blue with a special 2 year dust pearl!
> 
> More photo's coming up!
> 
> Also new  is on youtube, I'm trying to upload a better quality and 16:9 version but for now this one will do..
> 
> Cheers.




Nice keg delivery fleet. You Amish Jono? :lol: 

That's one neat, tidy and organised shed!


----------



## Jono_w

kenlock said:


> Nice keg delivery fleet. You Amish Jono? :lol:
> 
> That's one neat, tidy and organised shed!



:lol: funny you should say that, the old man got his first tractor a couple of years ago and retired the Clydesdale's to the back paddock..


----------



## doon

all i have got to say is DAMN THAT IS SEXY!


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> More photos please Jonno especially of the control box and screen.



I could maybe do a bit of an overlay and point out each component and its use when i find some spare time.
There is a bit of a mess in the cab because i have jumpers going from here to there.





cheers


----------



## Jono_w

So I think the general consensus was that the march pump was not up to the job of whirlpooling the kettle, so i found this pump on ebay and won it for $49.00 bargain..

IWAKI MAGNETIC COUPLED PUMP


230L @ 1 meter head.

3 phase .75 kw

possibly a little large?

anyway a good purchase i say.

cheers.

Oh and i have wacked up all my pics on a new web page.. www.digitalebrewery.com


----------



## thelastspud

I Read this thread in the last two days really hoping that it would be finished at the end. The whole build has been awesome. Its been a couple of months now since the last post hows it all going johnathon. 



edit spelling


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Bradley,

Due to many many other interest's and working shift work, progression has been slow over the last few months but now that I have most other things sorted I am about to get back into it. I have stripped it down so I can fully weld the base frame, put the floor on and then reassemble. Then rewire and program.. 
These things take time.. :lol: 

As long as there is no good surf in the meantime ..  

Cheers..


----------



## chappo1970

Come on Jonno whip that finger out mate! :lol: Bugger that surfin' crap finish this fooken rig off!


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> Come on Jonno whip that finger out mate! :lol: Bugger that surfin' crap finish this fooken rig off!



Chappo,
If there wasn't so much entertaining discussion going on here and pretty pictures maybe I could concentrate on my own projects 
Surfs turned to crap anyway so next few days might see some progress.


----------



## chappo1970

About bloody time Jonno! Getting sick of the the old photo's mate I really need some new brew porn.

So what's the plan form here mate? How far to go?


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> About bloody time Jonno! Getting sick of the the old photo's mate I really need some new brew porn.
> 
> So what's the plan form here mate? How far to go?



Well its all stripped down now i need to weld up the base, paint it and reassemble then give it all a good clean / polish.. Then the PLC logic needs to be written..

Still have to find a fermenting solution.
I like the look of those poly conical fermenters but stainless would be great, must be some second hand stainless vessels somewhere that would be suitable.. I looked at making them but I just don't have time..


----------



## Cocko

Jonno I have followed this thread since way back when....

Every time it comes up, I flick through the pics and wear a skin burn...  

Anyway, when are you gonna make some beer with this be'arch??? Cube it, ferment it later! Just run it up!! PLEASE!! :lol: 

Seriously tho, amazing kit and I, as most, look forward to see you hitting the big red button!!

Keep us posted!


----------



## pokolbinguy

*drool*


----------



## Jono_w

Hey guys, got a bit going on, working on modifying a Hanna digital refractometer to use inline with the system also the hops have been harvested, not a bad first harvest as they got very little attention..

2009 Hop Plantation


----------



## zxhoon

:icon_drool2: damn that looks awesome...

I've been hunting for a magnetic drive pump like you managed to find on ebay lucky bugger!

If you have any variable speed drive needs give me a yell, although I figure with your line of work you can get them fairly easily.. (I work for a small company that repairs VSDs in Vic)


----------



## Jono_w

zxhoon said:


> :icon_drool2: damn that looks awesome...
> 
> I've been hunting for a magnetic drive pump like you managed to find on ebay lucky bugger!
> 
> If you have any variable speed drive needs give me a yell, although I figure with your line of work you can get them fairly easily.. (I work for a small company that repairs VSDs in Vic)



Yeah that was a good find, I found a 3 phase stainless positive displacement gear pump for $60 at an auction last week!! 

I have the VSD covered but im still after a small 3 phase 240v motor and gearbox around 30rpm and maybe 1/4 hp if anyone knows of one please let me know..


----------



## rude

Dont you mean 440v 3 phase or am I overlooking something.


----------



## Jono_w

rude said:


> Dont you mean 440v 3 phase or am I overlooking something.



Nope 240v three phase, VSD is a 240v single phase to 240v 3 phase. Most 3 phase motors are able to be wired this way but some aren't..


----------



## Screwtop

Thing of beauty HERE on the Jim's Forum in the UK :icon_drool2: 

Screwy


----------



## Jono_w

Screwtop said:


> Thing of beauty HERE on the Jim's Forum in the UK :icon_drool2:
> 
> Screwy



ohh, that's very neat and nice and simple. The best bit is it looks finished!! 
Thanks Screwy..


----------



## goomboogo

Screwtop said:


> Thing of beauty HERE on the Jim's Forum in the UK :icon_drool2:
> 
> Screwy



I like how he says it is a progression from the buckets in the kitchen he used previously. Just a little bit of an understatement.


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

Jonathon said:


> Hey lads,
> I have been busy doing research and putting some new bits together for the new RIG.
> Here is a Peristaltic pump that I designed and cut out on a CNC router I built a while back..
> Its made from nylon and perspex. The tube is 1/2 inch silicon hose. Should sort out the food grade pump issue. I have tried it with an 18v drill and it works great, no specs as yet.
> 
> View attachment 14949
> 
> 
> Don't laugh ok, but i have been toying with the idea of a digital Refractometer, I have written some code to decode the image from a webcam. lol, silly i know, but would be so cool to have an inline refractometer.
> View attachment 14950
> 
> tootaloo for now...



I got 1 of these puppies! pumps anywhere from 1 ml/hr up to 300 ml/hr, got it for a small deposit but i have to give it back at the end of the year! (use it on my youngest, not on my homebrew completely OFF TOPIC, i know but after getting hold of one of these i have come up with my own design!)


----------



## Jono_w

That's a nice pump Wallace , 300ml an hour might be on the slow side for mashing .....I actually have two similar sized pumps i'm unsing for dosing chemicals into my HLT for cleaning.

Heaps happening this week, frame undercoated and top coat tomorrow if weather is clear. Working on a few plumbing pieces, the inline brix refractometer in particular.

A question for you guys, if you were able to have a real time brix readout where in the process would it be most valuable. I'm planning on putting it in the Lauter Grant so it will be reading the recirculation straight from the Mash Tun. With only one meter I would need alot more valves and plumbing to also read the kettle gravity..
Any thoughts?

Cheers
Jono.


----------



## raven19

Jonathon said:


> A question for you guys, if you were able to have a real time brix readout where in the process would it be most valuable. I'm planning on putting it in the Lauter Grant so it will be reading the recirculation straight from the Mash Tun. With only one meter I would need alot more valves and plumbing to also read the kettle gravity..



With your planned recirc you should be getting some great conversion after a 60 min mash. Is this even then required? I dare say the reading at the recirc point would increase, then plateau once you have hit full conversion in the mash. Once that has occurred you could then pump runnings into the kettle.

Once the kettle is full, give it a good stir, then take another reading or three, and go from there.

Forgive the above if not quite inline with your system. After so many (albeit great pages) I have forgotten the exact layout of your brewery.


----------



## paulwolf350

Jonathon said:


> That's a nice pump Wallace , 300ml an hour might be on the slow side for mashing .....I actually have two similar sized pumps i'm unsing for dosing chemicals into my HLT for cleaning.
> 
> Heaps happening this week, frame undercoated and top coat tomorrow if weather is clear. Working on a few plumbing pieces, the inline brix refractometer in particular.
> 
> A question for you guys, if you were able to have a real time brix readout where in the process would it be most valuable. I'm planning on putting it in the Lauter Grant so it will be reading the recirculation straight from the Mash Tun. With only one meter I would need alot more valves and plumbing to also read the kettle gravity..
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Cheers
> Jono.



I use mine solely for kettle gravity, mainly preboil, that way I can guage my mash efficiency and determine if any adjusting needs to be made. I boil the same all the time, so if my preboil gravity is correct i know my FG will be too, I usually check just to make sure.

reading gravity from mash tun will only give you readings of your runnings wont it? I would be putting it inline with your whirlpool, that way you can take both pre and post boil readings.

Paul


----------



## Jono_w

I guess the main reason for this additional sensor is really to learn how the conversion occurs in my system during recirculation in real time and make it as efficient as possible. But as you guys have pointed out it would be of use to see the FG.


----------



## Jono_w

So.... I put a whole in my Jetski and its out of action for a few weeks, I spent a couple of days in the shed. The final assembly has begun, I also knocked up a lauter grant and a hop stainer. Lots of cleaning of welds and finishing bits off. I got my mash stirrer motor today so im excited about putting that in and making the mixing blades.
Here are a few pics..


Lauter Grant





Pump I got for $40



Stainless Running Very LOW



Cheers..


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Nice Jono :super: 

Don't worry about the jet ski the water is getting too cold anway  . I wouldn't try to get it back in the water before Summer, so that should leave plenty of time to finish off the brewery.

BTW. Bloody nice work there mate.

Cheers.
Farside


----------



## raven19

It is really looking awesome Jonathan. Words cannot do justice to the brew p0rn pics you have posted. :icon_drool2: 

Is brewday #1 getting any closer?


----------



## Jono_w

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Nice Jono :super:
> 
> Don't worry about the jet ski the water is getting too cold anway  . I wouldn't try to get it back in the water before Summer, so that should leave plenty of time to finish off the brewery.
> 
> BTW. Bloody nice work there mate.
> 
> Cheers.
> Farside




That's what wesuits are for, and the surf is so big and smooth this time of year!

Im on the silver ski



raven19 said:


> It is really looking awesome Jonathan. Words cannot do justice to the brew p0rn pics you have posted. :icon_drool2:
> 
> Is brewday #1 getting any closer?



Cheers mate, It definatly is getting closer or I'm going to have some irate and thirsty mates..

I'm still without fermenters so if anyone has any ideas on where I can get at least 2 150 - 200 L stainless fermenters I'm all ears..

Jono


----------



## roller997

Jonathon said:


> That's what wesuits are for, and the surf is so big and smooth this time of year!
> 
> Im on the silver ski
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers mate, It definatly is getting closer or I'm going to have some irate and thirsty mates..
> 
> I'm still without fermenters so if anyone has any ideas on where I can get at least 2 150 - 200 L stainless fermenters I'm all ears..
> 
> Jono




That looks like wicked fun - Almost as exciting as the brewery you are building. I hope for all the people following the thread that you will succumb to your irate and thirsty mates.
I hope it didn't cost too much to fix the blue jetski.

In terms of larger fermenters, I suspect 150-200 is an odd size. It is a bit bigger than most hobbyists would want (well moreso could afford) and it is a fair bit smaller than most micro breweries would use.

I know that there are 70-80L ones around for about $800 and Craftbrewer has 100L ones for $999 which look great as conicals. Makes the fermenters a rather high investment when compared to some of the bargains you have been able to get. As you are very skilled with welding, I suspect a home made conical solution would satisfy both your size requirements while being easier on the budget. While I have no welding experience, I have been told that sanitary welds can be a bit challenging. Mind you the welding you did with the corny keg would have been quite challenging as well.

Keep up the great work.


Roller


----------



## Jono_w

Cheers Roller,

Ski all good, lucky the hull is the cheap bit to fix, the 800cc stroker motor running avgas on the other hand not so cheap, lucky i didn't sink it. I got a spare hull now..

I have looked at making my own and other than the conicals have everything I need. The bit that puts me off is as you mention the food grade welds and also being a pressure vessel they need to be tested and all sorts of red tape. The goal is to go commercial and the fermenters from what I have read need to be calibrated and certified pressure vessels. If i could get these already to go it would save alot of time and money. I have 3 1000L open top jacketed milk tanks wich I could possible do multiple batches into but something around 200L would be better. I have found a few in the states starting at about $6500 each.. Thats more than I have spent on the whole system. 

Surely there is a micro out there somewhere with some small fermenters in the back gathering dust?


----------



## alowen474

You can get stainless wine fermenters for under a grand with the pump up sealed lids etc.
If you're not caught up on conicals these can be an option.


----------



## Supra-Jim

Hi Jonothan,

The rig is looking great.

Check this link it's a bit bigger than what your looking for, but worth thinking about non the less.

(also there is a smaller looking tank just beside it, half in the photo).

Otherwise I remember from a while back, Cellar Plus have some stainless fermenters (i think they were for wine) in the volumes you are looking for.

Cheers SJ


----------



## roller997

Jonathon said:


> I have looked at making my own and other than the conicals have everything I need. The bit that puts me off is as you mention the food grade welds and also being a pressure vessel they need to be tested and all sorts of red tape. The goal is to go commercial and the fermenters from what I have read need to be calibrated and certified pressure vessels.



Jonathon,
With the fermenters, are you sure they need to be pressure vessels? White Rabbit and I am sure others in Australia use open fermenters so I would be surprised if that is a requirement for going commercial. It does help with the carbonation process and gives you great control without artificially carbonating the beer but it might not be a necessity.
What has to be done from a calibration perspective? Sizing the unit so the Excise tax can be correctly calculated?

If I was looking at moving into a commercial setup, the fermenters is where I would make sure to get properly designed ones, ideally with glycol cooling capability so I could do both lagers and ales at the same time. 
I would suggest that a properly designed beer fermenter is likely to be sanitized easier than milk or wine equipment, which should reduce the chances of making beers with undesireable flavours.

I hope you find a purpose built fermenter for a good price. If they have more than you need, I am sure there are a few folks around here (including myself) who would be keen on conicals around that size.

On that note, does anyone know what happens when a brewery produces an off beer (perhaps with a sour note)? I would assume that ATO is very interested in collecting the tax so that would make it costly if you can't write it off, while on the other hand the health authorities would be interested why / how the infection took place so when you write off a beer that is infected do they become involved?


Cheers

Roller


----------



## BEC26

Joanthon

Great looking setup!!!

But, a word of warning . . . . . 

the timeline is beginning to approach Franko's Red Rocket!!!!

Cheers
Bruce


----------



## Bandito

Hey Jonathon,
I plan on getting my conical fabricated by beerbelly. I will be modeling it up in solidworks most likely, and sending it off to some mates at an engineering company I used to work for to mesh in strand (its basically where they tell the program what pressure is inside the vessle, and adjust the wall thinkness and number of stiffener plates to compensate. - I could model up a design to your specs also and send it at the same time if you like. I have modeled quite a few coal bins, and although they are usually about 400 tonnes, the principle is the same. They usually require lots of stiffeners at welded joins. I'll pm you when I'm doing mine. I suspect the cost for yours might be about 4 slabs of great beer - these guys are not cheap and love their beer! My time will be free of course.

Anyway, great setup, very impressed! 

PS. there is another company I work with that automates commercial brewerys, pm me for their details - but not cheap also. Might be good to have a chat with someone there just to make contacts.


----------



## Jono_w

Roller,
I am looking at maybe getting some fermenters built, but the price for a 200L is really quite substantial and hard to justify when larger second hand ones can be bought for a similar price. I would prefer a jacketed tank able to hold pressure also, makes them so much more versatile as you note, carbonating, transfer and individual temp control.

Bruce,
Iv'e done more work in the last week than I have in a year, might not fix the jetski until its finished!

Bandito,
I'll take that offer on board mate. I have the automation under-control you might say..:lol: It's what I do..

Cheers..

Today had a few hours before nightshift.

Got the mash motor mount made up and tacked on looks like it is going to work out quite well, I also raised the mash tun pivot point 150mm so that the bottom of the mash tun is higher than the HERMS coil and Lauter inlet. This gets rid of and dead space in the plumbing.. Tomorrow I will make the mixing fingers.


----------



## Jono_w

Short New Vid


----------



## Fents

awesome vid.


----------



## brettprevans

Jonathon said:


> Short New Vid



viewable porn at work. awsome!! 


thats such a nice rig mate. and that work area you have! how awsome it must be.


----------



## roller997

Excellent stuff - Looks like a great workshop setup as well. 
Would be great to have some spare space at home and some nice tools (and know how) to get to work on all that stainless.


----------



## devo

Jonathan

Any timeframe/idea on when you might get to debut the rig with a brew?

devo


----------



## Jono_w

Devo,
At the rate i'm going at them moment I would like to say in the next month or so it will be ready for a liquid test, still alot of programming to go but that should not take too long.

I made the Mash Tun Grain Agitator today. The blades can be tightened at any angle by using washers in the top bolt. They still need a polish and I might add a few wings.


----------



## Bandito

Nice! I've been hankering for a look inside the MLT. I thought you would go horizontal bars welded off the stem. Interesting concept! Keep up the motivation, make sure its done well before mine  

Those fingers look a bit flimsey at the bottom, might they flare out? or is it plenty strong enough? is a bottom tie on the books?


----------



## Jono_w

Bandito said:


> Nice! I've been hankering for a look inside the MLT. I thought you would go horizontal bars welded off the stem. Interesting concept! Keep up the motivation, make sure its done well before mine
> 
> Those fingers look a bit flimsey at the bottom, might they flare out? or is it plenty strong enough? is a bottom tie on the books?



That 50mm Stem up the middle doesn't spin it houses a 18mm drive shaft couple to the gearbox at the base and the cross piece up the top. The blades had 150mm cut off them after the top photo was taken they are strong but a bottom plate is in order..


----------



## Jono_w

Finished the mash tun agitator just have to clean up the blades..



Made the tri clover refracometer adapter.







Hop Filter/strainer


----------



## zxhoon

thats looking mint, cant wait to see pics from the first brew day


----------



## Bandito

It would appear that all of that beautifully hand crafted stainless steel in such close proximity is causing a curvature of space-time. When you add the 200L conical, it will reach critical mass and create a singularity. Time will start to run in reverse, the universe will collaspe in on itsself, and life will cease to exist as we know it, and it will all be your fault!


----------



## praxis178

Bandito said:


> It would appear that all of that beautifully hand crafted stainless steel in such close proximity is causing a curvature of space-time. When you add the 200L conical, it will reach critical mass and create a singularity. Time will start to run in reverse, the universe will collaspe in on itsself, and life will cease to exist as we know it, and it will all be your fault!



Damn those birds and their time travel! :lol:


----------



## Jono_w

So could be the last update for a week or so, Jetskiing tomorrow, work next 2 nights, Djing sat night and milling timber on Sunday. 
I have no idea why this Brewery has taken almost two and a half years! :huh: 

Today I fabricated the false bottom, not super happy with it as it was a bastard to weld and there is a bit of a gap, but will do for now. 





Cheers..


----------



## Jono_w

It's alive!


----------



## Bandito

Thats the pic I've been hangering to see! fisheye lens again, nice. Mabee a ss washer around the stem, and a big one around the outside would fill in the gaps and provide strength?

Any chance of a benny hill remix of the timelapse video? That would be so funny :lol: Might need someone chasing you around in circles though. 

Look into my mash tun, you are under my command.....

Does that need a few kg counterweight? Looks great. Youll be able to start you own pub and supply others with that. 4 batches a day, 4 days a week, 2 week cycle. 36 fermenters? 300 kegs?


----------



## Jono_w

Bandito said:


> Thats the pic I've been hangering to see! fisheye lens again, nice. Mabee a ss washer around the stem, and a big one around the outside would fill in the gaps and provide strength?
> 
> Any chance of a benny hill remix of the timelapse video? That would be so funny :lol: Might need someone chasing you around in circles though.
> 
> Look into my mash tun, you are under my command.....
> 
> Does that need a few kg counterweight? Looks great. Youll be able to start you own pub and supply others with that. 4 batches a day, 4 days a week, 2 week cycle. 36 fermenters? 300 kegs?



I think i might just try again, I was a bit excited.. It has a frame underneath for stability.
Maybe on brew day there will sure be some stupid antics so the benny hill soundtrack will be saved for that..

No counterweight, there is a linear actuator that holds it in place and tips it out (not connected in video). 

Well I hope to have it in a bar or small brewery, maybe with a BIG brewhouse out the back eventually.Too small to make a living off, but will be great for special brews, would love to put it on a trailer and take it to events, shows, brew for beer clubs, that sort of thing, then I can just sell the wort. All legit..ish... 
I brew 4 U? oh wait that's already been done.. :lol: 
Got to have goals.


----------



## bigfridge

Jonathon said:


> Today I fabricated the false bottom, not super happy with it as it was a bastard to weld and there is a bit of a gap, but will do for now.



Quick question - why do you need rakes in a small mashtun like that ?

What do they do ?


----------



## Jono_w

bigfridge said:


> Quick question - why do you need rakes in a small mashtun like that ?
> 
> What do they do ?



They're going to mix during mash-in, get rid of chunks, then when I tip they will break up the spent grain.


----------



## jagerbrau

Not to mention help keep even temp with in the mash bed. I like the fact it reverses just like the bigger brewery that i have played with. How are you controlling the speed of the rakes? Is it with the software you have?

Keep the build up great work....


----------



## Jono_w

jagerbrau said:


> Not to mention help keep even temp with in the mash bed. I like the fact it reverses just like the bigger brewery that i have played with. How are you controlling the speed of the rakes? Is it with the software you have?
> 
> Keep the build up great work....



Yeah that's another good point, 
The speed and direction is controlled by a (VSD) Variable Speed Drive which is linked to the (PLC) Programmable Logic Controller. So the logic I write into the PLC will control speed duration and direction..
Cheers.


----------



## Jono_w

What are your thoughts on these Blichmann 42 gallon fermenters. At $1400 us with tri-clover fittings they are quite expensive but I'm running out of options..
LINK


----------



## Bandito

At above $1K you will be paying gst and customs duty - I got a call from UPS demanding AU$211 for my AU$1450 purchase from the US. Not to mention the freight - charged US$562 for air freight from US for 156KG, plus pickup from airport. One could double the US price for transport to get a reasonable idea for fast deliver of high mass and volume packages. Sea freight came up as US$360 or so from freightquote.com

It doesnt say that it is pressure capable like you mentioned before that you want. I hear it is the bees nees in terms of brands, but wouldnt you want a jacketed design for glycol cooling?

I trust you are looking at greys online, and there was another international one I found but cant locate it atm.


----------



## Jono_w

I have had a lot to do with importing jetski parts, it is a hassle but there are ways.....They are pressure capable, what pressure i not sure... I think im going to struggle to find jacketed fermenters at this size..


----------



## Bandito

You could probably weld cooling pipes to the outside to make it jacketed anyway right?

Make sure you ask as many questions as possible before buying - but that does seem cheap for such a huge volume. Get very detailed specs in writing first - I was very dissapointed to see the low bore of my pinch valves because I didnt ask enough questions before buying. 

What volume will you be producing exactly? Surely not 42 gallons?


----------



## alowen474

have a look at www.barrybrown.com.au 
Can make anything


----------



## unrealeous

Jonathon said:


> They are pressure capable, what pressure i not sure...


Not much - about 2.5 to 3 psi - enough for pumping 6 foot above the vessel, not for carbonating..


----------



## roller997

Jonathon,
Here is a link from a local mob that has these in stock. They also have a reference to the net fermentation volume being 140 liters while the gross size is listed as 159 liters. I suppose it will depend on how lively the fermentation is as there isn't much space between 140 and 159 liters. I have trouble fermenting 40 liters in a 46 liter fermenter when it is a wheat beer.

Here is the link to their list that highlights net volume as well as pricing for their 27 gallon fermenter - http://www.ibrew.com.au/html/equipment/beerequipmentset.html

The Blichmann series have a great reputation so I would suggest their fermenters will also be top notch.

Cheers

Roller


----------



## jagerbrau

You can order the bits and build self.....

http://www.toledometalspinning.com/

Have seen couple built this way....

Hope it helps


----------



## Jono_w

I will be producing form 150L - 200L per brew so the Blichmann will probably be on the small side.

I'll send www.barrybrown.com.au a message see how I go.

Just on that, I'm fairly disappointed with the replies or lack of from businesses I have emailed in regards to fermenters.
Not sure if I don't sound serious enough or a too smaller fish either way it's looking like building my own is going to be less frustrating and probably cheaper.

Anyone *know* the legalities of sanitary welding? Can I do it and get it inspected? 
Also pressure testing, I know the owners of a local dive shop that can pressure test and stamp them for me, is this all that's required?

Cheers..


----------



## zxhoon

Only thing I know to keep in mind with pressure testing anything is to make sure it is fully filled with water first, if the vessel is no good it will just spring a leak instead of going bang..


----------



## Jono_w

zxhoon said:


> Only thing I know to keep in mind with pressure testing anything is to make sure it is fully filled with water first, if the vessel is no good it will just spring a leak instead of going bang..



I'll keep that in mind..Cheers


----------



## Bandito

Jonathon said:


> Just on that, I'm fairly disappointed with the replies or lack of from businesses I have emailed in regards to fermenters.
> Not sure if I don't sound serious enough or a too smaller fish either way it's looking like building my own is going to be less frustrating and probably cheaper.



Welcome to the world of trying to get quotes - takes a long time - sometimes I wonder how they make money. They should reply, but is often after a week or more.

I would be supprised if a fermenter had to be a certified pressure vessel, any idea where you got that from? Large vessles, like 400 tonne coal bins and the 1 million litre fermenters at Manildra are engineered by assigning a pressure to the inside wall, but the top is open in so far as the coal bins (the pressure is purely a result of the height and density of the contents) - not sure about the largest fermenters in the southern hemisphere though - could this be it? I'll ask someone. 

I reckon building it yourself would be great. A blinckman next to your rig just wouldnt look right.
To get over your 70mm rolling radius, perhaps machining or lathing the bottom bit from a SS billet could be the go?


----------



## Jono_w

Bandito said:


> Welcome to the world of trying to get quotes - takes a long time - sometimes I wonder how they make money. They should reply, but is often after a week or more.
> 
> I would be supprised if a fermenter had to be a certified pressure vessel, any idea where you got that from? Large vessles, like 400 tonne coal bins and the 1 million litre fermenters at Manildra are engineered by assigning a pressure to the inside wall, but the top is open in so far as the coal bins (the pressure is purely a result of the height and density of the contents) - not sure about the largest fermenters in the southern hemisphere though - could this be it? I'll ask someone.
> 
> I reckon building it yourself would be great. A blinckman next to your rig just wouldnt look right.
> To get over your 70mm rolling radius, perhaps machining or lathing the bottom bit from a SS billet could be the go?



Because of the potential of the blow off tube blocking, it could build up a serious amount of c02 pretty quickly and boooom..

I'm interested in building its just time I don't have, ill look into the cones again from toledo i think..


----------



## komodo

Theres plenty of metal spinners in Australia capable of spinning some SS. 

As for getting quotes - email sucks. Use a fax and follow up with a phone call. Give an appropriate amount of time for them to prepare a quote 5 working days is typical minimum turn around time for a quotation request to be turned around in manufacturing industries for joe blow off the street. I spend millions of dollars a year with many of my suppliers and im lucky if I get a next day quotation filled and they know my leads have genuine purchase order potential. Theres a reason procurement officers earn a decent living


----------



## Jono_w

Komodo said:


> Theres plenty of metal spinners in Australia capable of spinning some SS.
> 
> As for getting quotes - email sucks. Use a fax and follow up with a phone call. Give an appropriate amount of time for them to prepare a quote 5 working days is typical minimum turn around time for a quotation request to be turned around in manufacturing industries for joe blow off the street. I spend millions of dollars a year with many of my suppliers and im lucky if I get a next day quotation filled and they know my leads have genuine purchase order potential. Theres a reason procurement officers earn a decent living



I have spoken to metal spinners and the problem was the initial cost of making the spinning die or blank, Unless there is a market for 200L fermenters getting 2 cones spun was not affordable.

I guess these guys get a lot of emails from dreamers and such so they need to filter out the bull$hit. I will draw up a design and see how I go..
Cheers


----------



## Bandito

I am told that commercial fermenters are open to the air (not pressure vessels conforming to the pressure vessel code), perhaps with some sort of disk valve within a large diameter pipe coming off the top. Sounds like a heavy metal disk valve pivoted on one side so the other side can raise up from co2 pressure releasing it?


----------



## Jono_w

Bandito said:


> I am told that commercial fermenters are open to the air (not pressure vessels conforming to the pressure vessel code), perhaps with some sort of disk valve within a large diameter pipe coming off the top. Sounds like a heavy metal disk valve pivoted on one side so the other side can raise up from co2 pressure releasing it?



I would like my fermenters to be able to be pressurized for transfer and with the use of a spunding or pressure relief valve could be used to self carbonate.


----------



## Bandito

Sweet.

As far as sanitary welding goes. When a commercial plant has sanitary welds, each weld is given a unique number and the location and number are shown on marking plans. Then the weld is logged with the electrodes used, who did it etc.

I guess this allows say 10% of the welding rods to be tested? or perhaps if a weld fails or is found to have a hole, other welds done by that batch of rods or that welder can be traced?


----------



## Bandito

So now I want to know what sanitary welding is. Some search results:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...ing&gs_rfai=
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...eld&gs_rfai=
http://wwwbdp.ncifcrf.gov/pdf1/11001.pdf A more detailed procedure of what I mentioned in above post for the biopharmaceutical industry
http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=16536 a home brew forum
http://www.mcwelding.com/welding/sanitary.html A couple of lines saying that the inside of the tube or vessel needs to be filled with inert argon gas and be passivated 

Tomorrow I will ask if sanitary welds are required in commercial brewerys, this is just beer afterall, its not milk or biopharmaceuticals. I suspect it may only be required in some yeast culturing lines on the lab side.


----------



## Jono_w

Another busy Pre night-shift arvo in the shed today. Plumbing almost complete..










Flexible lines so the mashtun can tip, going to try and find some stainless wire wrap or similar instead of cable ties..



The Mashtun inlet comes up through the mixer drive shaft through a banjo type fitting then out two 90 tees at the top..



This is a test sparge tube it rotated with the rakes, not sure what i'll run with here, I want something that helps wash out when its tipped also..



Two peristaltic pumps for dosing the HLT with cleaners and sanitizer and a tray.



False bottom mk1.


----------



## Cocko

Sorry if it is obvious but I have looked and thought and looked and thought...

WTF is that tube thingy for?


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> Sorry if it is obvious but I have looked and thought and looked and thought...
> 
> WTF is that tube thingy for?
> 
> View attachment 37289



Well i'm going to use it to chuck hops in and recirculate through the kettle, its outlet is behind it.

edit- I also realise it is lower than the top of the kettle, so if i needed to take off the lid while brewing it would make a mess, this will be modified soon..
cheers..


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Well i'm going to use it to chuck hops in and recirculate through the kettle, its outlet is behind it.



Awesome.

So like a hopback on the way out? Hot wort, on the way to chill OR do you have other ideas??


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> Awesome.
> 
> So like a hopback on the way out? Hot wort, on the way to chill OR do you have other ideas??




Yeah, I can recirculate through it at anytime, but I plan to use flowers that I have grown in it and near the end it will act as a bit of a filter catching the pellet debris in the flower bed.. There is a lager filter cage inside..


----------



## Zwickel

Sir Jonathon......
.......................

thats the most beautiful self designed, self made home brewery Ive ever seen. :icon_chickcheers: 

Prost :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

Zwickel said:


> Sir Jonathon......
> .......................
> 
> thats the most beautiful self designed, self made home brewery Ive ever seen. :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> Prost :icon_cheers:



Cheers Sir Zwickel,
When are you coming over for a test drive?
Not until the volcanic ash cloud clears i guess?


----------



## goomboogo

Jonathon said:


> Another busy Pre night-shift arvo in the shed today. Plumbing almost complete..
> View attachment 37275
> 
> View attachment 37276
> 
> View attachment 37277
> 
> View attachment 37278
> 
> 
> Flexible lines so the mashtun can tip, going to try and find some stainless wire wrap or similar instead of cable ties..
> View attachment 37279
> 
> 
> The Mashtun inlet comes up through the mixer drive shaft through a banjo type fitting then out two 90 tees at the top..
> View attachment 37280
> 
> 
> This is a test sparge tube it rotated with the rakes, not sure what i'll run with here, I want something that helps wash out when its tipped also..
> View attachment 37283
> 
> 
> Two peristaltic pumps for dosing the HLT with cleaners and sanitizer and a tray.
> View attachment 37281
> 
> 
> False bottom mk1.
> View attachment 37282



I guess it's over to you Bandito.


----------



## Bandito

goomboogo said:


> I guess it's over to you Bandito.



No, this is Jonathons thread. I'll update my thread when I have some progress. Patience is the key - its the automated brewery that desides how long it takes to build it - not the brewer.

So Jonathon, are you going to give him/her a name? Mine will be called Jessica (after Jessica Alba). I figure an automated brewery should have a people name rather than a piece of equipment like something a'rather brewery. 

The silicon hose and blue peristaltic pumps look a bit out of place, perhaps some SS braid and chrome spray would shiny things up? Purely from astetics, looking great as far as I am concerned.


----------



## bum

Bandito said:


> Mine will be called Jessica (after Jessica Alba).


 
Well, that's the hard bit done.


----------



## Bandito

Looks like its ready for testing!?! Probably no need to wait for the fermenter, just get a brew day going and make it bring your own grain, hops and cubes. Would be good to give it a test mash no? 

Edit: oops, forgot the programming part.


----------



## mitysa

Top looking rig, sure beats my cooler and keggle!!

note to self must work harder on better set up!!!!!


mike


----------



## Jono_w

Bandito said:


> Looks like its ready for testing!?! Probably no need to wait for the fermenter, just get a brew day going and make it bring your own grain, hops and cubes. Would be good to give it a test mash no?
> 
> Edit: oops, forgot the programming part.



Still a bit of plumbing to clean up then wire it up and on to programming.



mitysa said:


> Top looking rig, sure beats my cooler and keggle!!
> 
> note to self must work harder on better set up!!!!!
> 
> 
> mike



Hey mate, if it works for you use it. Bet you've made far more beer than me lately  
The simplicity of a cooler and keggle set up just show you how simple brewing can be. 
I'm trying to make it _really_ complicated, and loving every minute of it..


----------



## mitysa

i'm still trying to get off my ass an build a brew stand, but no time is the biggest issue!!!!!

good luck with it all, wish i had the skills as you look you have

looks fantastic



mike

edit : grammer


----------



## Jono_w

Bad News!!

New Jetski hull arrived bubble wrapped today...and...surfs up!

Brewery on the back-burner for this weekend....
Sorry Chappo...


----------



## Jono_w

Ok so I have run out of AVGAS so can't ride my jetski until the weekend.. 
So I have spent a few hours mounting the control cabinet and running the wiring, still needs a tidy up but almost done.
I'm trying to hide as much wiring as possible to keep it clean looking..








Cheers
Jonathon


----------



## Fents

bling bling!


----------



## NickB

One word:


:icon_drool2:


----------



## brendo

Looking great Jonathon - good to see it so close.

Of course, the $4 million question is - can it make beer h34r: 

Looking forward to hearing about the results!!!


----------



## gava

Im impressed you can source all the stuff to put this together.. Guess you know the right people 

Looks fantastic, Lets hope the beer tastes as good as it looks 



Jonathon said:


> Ok so I have run out of AVGAS so can't ride my jetski until the weekend..
> So I have spent a few hours mounting the control cabinet and running the wiring, still needs a tidy up but almost done.
> I'm trying to hide as much wiring as possible to keep it clean looking..
> 
> View attachment 37851
> 
> View attachment 37852
> 
> View attachment 37853
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jonathon


----------



## Jono_w

Yeah it's getting there but the question still remains whether it will produce a good beer. Like iv'e said numerous times. I really just like building things but cant wait to start the brewing process i'm sure I have a lot more to learn.


----------



## chappo1970

Isn't it about time you bite the bullet and mafe this puppy sing Jonno?


----------



## Jono_w

Chappo said:


> Isn't it about time you bite the bullet and mafe this puppy sing Jonno?



Yeah mate looks like it's back to the brewery for now, had a stack on the jetski, black eye and a busted up thumb. 

Got to pull my finger out for sure.


----------



## mr_tyreman

for the love of god dont brew beer in this....you'll get it dirty!

h34r:


----------



## mxd

don't listen to those nay sayers, you keep doing what you love (building things) to help you out I pop over and take that almost built thing away as it appears to be slowing your building activities


----------



## Jono_w

mr_tyreman said:


> for the love of god dont brew beer in this....you'll get it dirty!
> 
> h34r:


 
Ha, if this thing doesn't make a beer soon there will be trouble..



mxd said:


> don't listen to those nay sayers, you keep doing what you love (building things) to help you out I pop over and take that almost built thing away as it appears to be slowing your building activities



Mate if we listened to some of the people around here it would be a very boring existence. I get a good laugh out of the nay sayers comments most of them have little to nothing to offer forums. 
Bandwidth thief's I call them..

Cheers..


----------



## Jono_w

Morning Brewers,
I'm writing the PLC program as I type and I'm looking for some help regarding a CIP (clean in place) schedule. I have two peristaltic pumps plumbed into my hot liquor tank to dose it with cleaning and sanitizing chemicals.

This is my plan, 

1. fill hlt with water maybe 50L
2. dose with cleaner
3. heat to desired cleaning temp
4. recirc through system
5. drain

6. fill hlt with water
7. dose with sanitizer
8. heat to desired sanitizing temp
9. recirc / rest
10. drain

I'm thinking in between sequential brews i'll just do a hot water rinse.

My questions are:

what liquid cleaner and sanitizer should I use?
Contact time
Temp

Am I missing anything?

Cheers 
Jonathon


----------



## Zwickel

Hi Johnathon,

thats what most commercial breweries are doing:


1. fill hlt with (hot) water 
2. dose with cleaner; caustic soda 3%
3. heat (keep at) to 65C
4. recirc through system for 20 to 30 min.
5. drain

6. fill hlt with water
7. dose with citric acid 3%
8. heat to desired rinsing temp, 50C
9. recirc 
10. drain

Cheers mate :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

Good work Zwickel, 
Sounds like a plan to me.
Cheers.


----------



## Zwickel

Hello Sir Jonathon,

I found something of interest for your wonderful beer-producing-machine 

http://www.kiesel-online.de/download/pdf/K...technik_Web.pdf

maybe it is helpful for your ingenious work.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## Jono_w

Zwickel said:


> Hello Sir Jonathon,
> 
> I found something of interest for your wonderful beer-producing-machine
> 
> http://www.kiesel-online.de/download/pdf/K...technik_Web.pdf
> 
> maybe it is helpful for your ingenious work.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



Master Zwickel,

That's a good read, one thing I need to add is some spray balls I think.,

Cheers.


----------



## Bandito

I have some issues with previous posts - why dose the HLT? Surely just heat the water in the HLT then pump into the MLT and dose the MLT directly.

In terms of dosing, I refer to /// as the guru. Send a PM for proper advise, I wont even try to imitate, 

Best firsthand.


----------



## Jono_w

Bandito said:


> I have some issues with previous posts - why dose the HLT? Surely just heat the water in the HLT then pump into the MLT and dose the MLT directly.
> 
> In terms of dosing, I refer to /// as the guru. Send a PM for proper advise, I wont even try to imitate,
> 
> Best firsthand.



The HLT is used as a buffer tank, heat the CIP water and to mix the cleaner / sanitizer thoroughly. I also want to start there to make sure all pumps and plumbing are cleaned.


----------



## Jono_w

I think you will all appreciate this, from the guys at Dogfish Head Brewery. 



"There is no more analog beer for the digital age, there is only digital beer now for the digital age"

Gold.. :super:


----------



## Jono_w

What do you think about these as fermenters? I realise they are not but close, be a shame to chop them down, 200L in a 600L tank is really too much head space?


----------



## unrealeous

Jonathon said:


> What do you think about these as fermenters? I realise they are not but close, be a shame to chop them down, 200L in a 600L tank is really too much head space?


Nice and shiny... Is head-space really a problem if it's sanitized?

I know of a few micro's out there with fermenters twice as large as their boil kettle. If they want to fill the fermenter they do two batches of the same beer in a row, but often just do one. With an automated brew rig, multiple batches shouldn't be a problem. Drinking it all might be though...


----------



## Jono_w

unrealeous said:


> Nice and shiny... Is head-space really a problem if it's sanitized?
> 
> I know of a few micro's out there with fermenters twice as large as their boil kettle. If they want to fill the fermenter they do two batches of the same beer in a row, but often just do one. With an automated brew rig, multiple batches shouldn't be a problem. Drinking it all might be though...



That's it, would be nicer to have the option of batch brews. As long as it is purged i can't see a problem really?


----------



## thelastspud

ive seen people put 5 litre brews in 20l fermentors before, so dont think it would be a problem


----------



## Jono_w

My friend just so happened to call me up and his very expensive brake-press had given up and with jobs backing up he was panicking, I got it going and lucky for me he had just got in a sheet of stainless for me, so it cost me squat. This is one example of how I am able to build this cheap. Swapping work/skills is a great way to save coin.

I got him to fold up some of the sheet for a cable tray and the other piece I made a jig to cut out lids for my tanks.

This one is on my kettle, one side will be welded the other hinged, also a steam vent tube will be added.








Cheers


----------



## Doogiechap

Bloke I am in awe of your creation ! It has been great to see the journey from inception. Thanks for sharing !!
Cheers
Doug


----------



## thelastspud

Jonathon said:


> so it cost me squat.
> 
> Cheers




How much of this steel did you get for free mate? youve been pretty lucky


----------



## Jono_w

Cheers Doug, 
I like sharing it the build.

None for "free" really, I have swapped electrical work and other items for some parts though. I worked on for 4 hours for that sheet, so at $50 an hour i pretty much bought it anyway.


----------



## yardy

Jonathon said:


> I got him to fold up some of the sheet for a cable tray and the other piece I made a jig to cut out lids for my tanks.
> 
> This one is on my kettle, one side will be welded the other hinged, also a steam vent tube will be added.
> 
> Cheers



gday jonathon, like the jig B) 

i take it the vent is incorporated into the fixed side of the kettle lid ? what if this doesn't vent/exhaust all the steam from the boil ?

i like the idea of a one piece lid on a spigotted tube welded to the wall of the kettle that can be rotated out of the way when the boil is up and running.

just my 2bobs, nice work

cheers

Dave


----------



## Jono_w

yardy said:


> gday jonathon, like the jig B)
> 
> i take it the vent is incorporated into the fixed side of the kettle lid ? what if this doesn't vent/exhaust all the steam from the boil ?
> 
> i like the idea of a one piece lid on a spigotted tube welded to the wall of the kettle that can be rotated out of the way when the boil is up and running.
> 
> just my 2bobs, nice work
> 
> cheers
> 
> Dave



The reason is that the brewery has to be moved into town to get 3 phase power and the building that this is going into has low plaster ceilings and the steam will be plumbed outside with a exhaust fan pulling the steam off the kettle. I can open the front half to assist in flow. For now it's going to be moved into my brothers furniture making workshop, not sure he would appreciate steam through his workshop.


----------



## Jono_w

So, it's almost been a month since the last update, and not much has materialized since. But, I have spent a lot of time on the plc side of things, the touch screen interface and PLC program are starting to come together nicely. Spending so much time in front of a PC seems like a waste of time but it has to be done.
I have the lids on the Kettle now.
I have also stared rewiring a 30KW 3phase diesel Genset I was given a few years ago which I figure could run the whole setup nicely.












Cheers
Jonathon.


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> View attachment 38971
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jonathon.



Diesel powered touch screens?? 

Great choice.


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> Diesel powered touch screens??
> 
> Great choice.



Why not? Might even run it from waste vegie oil, beer and chips it is. :icon_drool2:


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Why not? Might even run it from waste vegie oil, beer and chips it is. :icon_drool2:



No argue, sounds real good like


----------



## Jono_w

So my eyes are aching but I have made a good start on the the PLC program.

For the PLC / programming among us here are some stats so far.

~ 65 variables
~ 8 digital inputs
~ 32 digital outputs
6 analog inputs
1 rs232 serial connection to the HMI screen which contains all of the operator inputs, PID's and gauges 

The auto sequence is almost complete and hopefully tomorrow I can slot the PLC back into place and get some liquid flowing. Anything could happen as the brewery has not been connected while the programming has been taking place.

cheers


----------



## aussiechucka

Looks good mate, what is that a 5/03 or 04. Doing a fair bit of work there. Hope all goes well. Are you using spray balls for your CIP? We use these at work on our ferment and yeast systems.


----------



## Bandito

What time can we expect the national power grid to go down?


----------



## Jono_w

aussiechucka said:


> Looks good mate, what is that a 5/03 or 04. Doing a fair bit of work there. Hope all goes well. Are you using spray balls for your CIP? We use these at work on our ferment and yeast systems.



Cheers, it's unfortunately a 5/03 which only has a DH485 and 232 serial port and as I can only program it with the 232 port at the moment i cant have the HMI touch screen connected at the same time which makes it hard to program. I have ordered a usb to DH485 lead to make it easier.
All this would be fixed if I had a 5/05 with Ethernet, but they are very pricey..

I will be using spray balls yeah, still need to manufacture these though.



Bandito said:


> What time can we expect the national power grid to go down?



I'll make sure I give you time to finish watching dancing with the starz


----------



## darrenp

Fantastic set up. You can't wash that baby by hand. Fully automated CIP the way to go with full rinse and recirc cycles I reckon then sit back and take it easy.

Pays to have a prox on each lid that shuts the spray ball down if opened. Don't want someone taking a peek and getting a face full of it.


----------



## Jono_w

Darrenp said:


> Fantastic set up. You can't wash that baby by hand. Fully automated CIP the way to go with full rinse and recirc cycles I reckon then sit back and take it easy.
> 
> Pays to have a prox on each lid that shuts the spray ball down if opened. Don't want someone taking a peek and getting a face full of it.



That is a great point on the prox's on the lids, a face full of hot caustic is always best avoided.
As I look at cleaning as one of the most important and also least enjoyable part of brewing it will be automated as much as possible.


----------



## darrenp

Thanks Jonathon that was my first post, was a bit nervous. I've been doing a lot of research the last few weeks to do my first all grain and getting heaps of good ideas for my own set up. 

I see your in SW Vic, good dairy country and I reckon you could get your hands on some cheap spray balls easier than they would be to make. Try some of the farm supplies stores like Murray Goulburn Trading and Landmark and go for the small balls with split pin attachments, don't need anything fancy just need to get full coverage for the inside of your tanks.

Keep an eye on run off from the inside of your lids, will make a mess if you can't keep it all in the tanks. Let me know if you need a hand setting up a functional description (FD) for the process. Not much chop with the programming side but got a fair bit of experience in setting up CIP systems.


----------



## Jono_w

Darrenp said:


> Thanks Jonathon that was my first post, was a bit nervous. I've been doing a lot of research the last few weeks to do my first all grain and getting heaps of good ideas for my own set up.
> 
> I see your in SW Vic, good dairy country and I reckon you could get your hands on some cheap spray balls easier than they would be to make. Try some of the farm supplies stores like Murray Goulburn Trading and Landmark and go for the small balls with split pin attachments, don't need anything fancy just need to get full coverage for the inside of your tanks.
> 
> Keep an eye on run off from the inside of your lids, will make a mess if you can't keep it all in the tanks. Let me know if you need a hand setting up a functional description (FD) for the process. Not much chop with the programming side but got a fair bit of experience in setting up CIP systems.



First post Darrenp and it was helpful! , welcome to the forums mate. 
There is loads of great information and some very knowledgeable brewers on here, it has been a great resource for my project.
There is a dairy supply shop an hour away in Warrnambool I have been told have all sorts of stainless gear, might be worth a visit.
You make another good point on the lids not sealing, A bit of trial and error is in order. 
Thanks for the offer , the CIP side of things is all new to me but its one that I think if i get it right will be the most helpful part of the whole automation process.

Cheers.


----------



## JayCharles

Hi Jonathon, 

I saw this on evilbay: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Beer-Fermenter-home...=item335ee88dd7

I didn't know if it was what you were after - especially price wise.

cheers 

Jay


----------



## unrealeous

Jay Charles said:


> Hi Jonathon,
> 
> I saw this on evilbay: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Beer-Fermenter-home...=item335ee88dd7
> 
> I didn't know if it was what you were after - especially price wise.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Jay


That's a terrible price 

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1149


----------



## Jono_w

Cheers guys, 

I think I'm onto some 300L jacketed tanks, we shall see. If anyone is seriously looking for fermenters of this size (300L) let me know.



Also If there are any guys out there who have started a small brewery, I'm interested in hearing about the process and how they went about it. 
I have a month off work in august and I'm more than willing to swap this information for some grain shoveling. 

Jonathon


----------



## theover

Try this one

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...T#ht_500wt_1154


----------



## Jono_w

Theover said:


> Try this one
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...T#ht_500wt_1154



Yeah, onto it.


----------



## Jono_w

Jonathon said:


> Also If there are any guys out there who have started a small brewery, I'm interested in hearing about the process and how they went about it.
> I have a month off work in august and I'm more than willing to swap this information for some grain shoveling.
> 
> Jonathon



Just bumping as I'm pretty keen to get some hands on.


----------



## Fents

Jonathon said:


> Just bumping as I'm pretty keen to get some hands on.



PM me with some questions you have i should be able to answer them.


----------



## Jono_w

Fents said:


> PM me with some questions you have i should be able to answer them.



Cheers mate, I'm doing a bit of snowboarding this week, should have plenty of questions by next week.


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon,

Did this rig ever come to life?

I assume you no longer frequent the forum but would love to know if you ever ended up making beer and not just gear  

OR did I miss a different thread that has your brew day pic and results?


----------



## yardy

Cocko said:


> Jonathon,
> 
> Did this rig ever come to life?
> 
> I assume you no longer frequent the forum but would love to know if you ever ended up making beer and not just gear
> 
> OR did I miss a different thread that has your brew day pic and results?




+1, bump etc...


----------



## schooey

You reckon Johnno and Bandana Boy have run off together and opened a micro? :unsure:


----------



## mccuaigm

Hehe


----------



## Bongchitis

They both have been very quiet :blink:


----------



## Jono_w

Hey guys, 

Still working away at it, I have a lot of interest in the system from a very wide and varied community of brewers , emails and so on seem to be a better way of interacting with genuinely interested, like minded folk. so keeping track of the threads has not been a priority. I have been in the garden working on hop plantation which I have posted in the 2010 hop plantation thread.

A fermenter deal fell through as the build quality was terrible. Still looking at options.


Cheers.

Jonathon.

PS I don't know where bandananana went.


----------



## RobW

Maybe Nurse Ratchet came for him


----------



## Jono_w

I forgot to mention that I'm participating in Movember.
Not only am I growing a very seedy looking Mo I also said I would shave my Afro which I have had for over 10 years if I raised over $1000, im well over $1000 so it is coming off.

All Money raised is shared equally between programs targeting prostate cancer and male depression
And as many of us have been affected directly or indirectly its a great cause.

For those interested my Movember website is Jono Williamson Movember
Note that the total money raised on the site does not reflect the actual total.

Also There will be a fundraiser BBQ at our farm for anyone in the Portland area on friday the 3rd of Dec..




Happy Brewing Related activities,
- including building wild brewing contraptions even if they never see beer. ha ha


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Guys, 
So I raised over $1500 for Movember so the hair is gone, Been working on Brewery again as there is no swell again and maybe the hair was slowing down progress.

The old man and a mate trying to shear me with an old wind up shearer.....


----------



## mccuaigm

Noce work mate, I shaved my dreads in March & raised 2,500 for leukaemia, great feeling & some good fun


----------



## Jono_w

goldy said:


> Noce work mate, I shaved my dreads in March & raised 2,500 for leukaemia, great feeling & some good fun



Well done mate, It's the best feeling, Don't think I'll be growing it back for a while...


----------



## scott_penno

Bump. Any updates?

sap.


----------



## Jono_w

sappas said:


> Bump. Any updates?
> 
> sap.



Hey Hey, Yeah. I Just purchased a new house, so moving all the gear into the new shed.
Could be some time! ha..
Gee i'm glad I was never silly enough to put a time frame on this project..

STILL LOOKING FOR FERMENTERS!!
300L commercial grade and fairly cheap, well not $6000 like I was quoted..

Cheers,
Jono.


----------



## Cocko

Post pics baldy.


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> Post pics baldy.



Of my Mohawk?


----------



## stux

Jonathon said:


> Hey Hey, Yeah. I Just purchased a new house, so moving all the gear into the new shed.
> Could be some time! ha..
> Gee i'm glad I was never silly enough to put a time frame on this project..
> 
> STILL LOOKING FOR FERMENTERS!!
> 300L commercial grade and fairly cheap, well not $6000 like I was quoted..
> 
> Cheers,
> Jono.



Yeah, I know, not shiny, but

http://www.peopleinplastic.com.au/Product/...-drum-black-lid

would get you going nicely.

Tis food grade.


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Of my Mohawk?



Yeah sure..... of your mohwk... maybe with your brew rig in the back ground!

Seriously, have you made beer in it yet? 

Cease being bald, minus strip, and post pics of your brewery in action!  

Come on!


----------



## Jono_w

Stux said:


> Yeah, I know, not shiny, but
> 
> http://www.peopleinplastic.com.au/Product/...-drum-black-lid
> 
> would get you going nicely.
> 
> Tis food grade.



They would be adequate, I have seen a plastic liner that some use also would save on cleaning..
Cheers.


----------



## gregs

Im keen to see this rig in action. Come on :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Jono_w

Hey guys,
Although it seems I have been a bit quiet on the Brewery front I'm still tinkering away.
Lucky I'm not paying buy the hour, or month for that matter..

Move into my new place on Wed so things will be all go from then on I hope.
Started Collecting bits for a new Grain Mill. Found a friend with a broken 80mm solid stainless prop shaft from a boat, should make a fairly solid Mill I think.


----------



## benguilford

Hi Jonothan,

I just have to say that I am so completely and utterly impressed by your ability to cut, turn and weld things into being. As a Mechanical Engineer I dream to one day replicate your workshop (complete with CNC mill... drool). The fun is in the construction and don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise!


----------



## Jono_w

benguilford said:


> Hi Jonothan,
> 
> I just have to say that I am so completely and utterly impressed by your ability to cut, turn and weld things into being. As a Mechanical Engineer I dream to one day replicate your workshop (complete with CNC mill... drool). The fun is in the construction and don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise!



Cheers mate,
The fun is in the creating for me for sure, just don't say it too loud. ha.
Won't be long now and a beer will be produced.
I can taste it..


----------



## sean_0

I spent a good three hours last night going through this thread - just spotted it yesterday. This is the singularly most awesome project I have ever seen. Also very impressed with your range of skills. I'm and electronic engineer so I could probably manage the control side of things if I really had to, but I wouldn't know one end of a TIG welder from the other. Can't wait to see it in action.


----------



## Jono_w

sean_0 said:


> I spent a good three hours last night going through this thread - just spotted it yesterday. This is the singularly most awesome project I have ever seen. Also very impressed with your range of skills. I'm and electronic engineer so I could probably manage the control side of things if I really had to, but I wouldn't know one end of a TIG welder from the other. Can't wait to see it in action.



Thanks mate, 
My advice is to just give it a go, I have very little formal training other than my A grade electrical license. I'm also getting very keen to get it commissioned.


----------



## benguilford

Bring on the commissioning! I have spent a good few hours (at work of course) reading this thread, watching the videos and checking out all of the photos, and I am seriously looking forward to seeing it come to life. I don't know if you're still looking for a 300L fermenter, I'm actually looking at importing some decent quality 50L stainless steel brew pots and conical fermenters to Australia, so if you're interested I can let you know how much a 300L double (or triple) walled stainless steel fermenter will set you back. Not even close to $6000 that is for sure. 

I also noted your pneumatic bottle capper! Will this eventually form part of the automated production line? Now THAT would really stretch your control systems imagination!


----------



## Jono_w

benguilford said:


> Bring on the commissioning! I have spent a good few hours (at work of course) reading this thread, watching the videos and checking out all of the photos, and I am seriously looking forward to seeing it come to life. I don't know if you're still looking for a 300L fermenter, I'm actually looking at importing some decent quality 50L stainless steel brew pots and conical fermenters to Australia, so if you're interested I can let you know how much a 300L double (or triple) walled stainless steel fermenter will set you back. Not even close to $6000 that is for sure.
> 
> I also noted your pneumatic bottle capper! Will this eventually form part of the automated production line? Now THAT would really stretch your control systems imagination!



Hey mate, 
Good to see your using your time wisely, 
I'm still after some fermenters, they have to comply to AS and be pressure rated which can be difficult.
300L with cooling jackets would be great.

Ive collected bits for a automated capping and filling line, this is another project that for now is a low priority.

Cheers


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Guys,

Had a very constructive day yesterday.
My Brother and Myself Part own a Timber Mill so we spent the day cutting lining for my shed/brewery and a bar top. I know It doesn't help to get the brewery going but still had to be done.


----------



## raven19

Cmon Jonothan, time to focus solely on getting this brewery making beer fella!

We are eagerly awaiting to see photos of it in action! :icon_cheers:


----------



## white.grant

Jonathon said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Had a very constructive day yesterday.
> My Brother and Myself Part own a Timber Mill so we spent the day cutting lining for my shed/brewery and a bar top. I know It doesn't help to get the brewery going but still had to be done.
> 
> View attachment 45867
> View attachment 45866




I hate you even more now  

That's a decent tree how'd you get it?


----------



## kymba

Jonathon said:


> STILL LOOKING FOR FERMENTERS!!
> 300L commercial grade and fairly cheap, well not $6000 like I was quoted..
> Cheers,
> Jono.



you could triple batch into a 1,000L IBC - no chill FTW!. comes with an cage...just chill it in your lake?

you would need a big knee pad to push against the side to get all the air out


----------



## Jono_w

Grantw said:


> I hate you even more now
> 
> That's a decent tree how'd you get it?


That's 1 of 50 logs in a row, we take the mill to location , in this case a mates farm he has cleared a wind row with a dozer so our job is easy.


----------



## white.grant

Jonathon said:


> That's 1 of 50 logs in a row, we take the mill to location , in this case a mates farm he has cleared a wind row with a dozer so our job is easy.




Hmm! big toys make the job easier.


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Guys,
I've been quite lately but been very busy renovating my house, in between jobs the brewery/bar gets some attention.
Here's some pics of my progress..


















Cheers...


----------



## pokolbinguy

*drool*. I want that shed!!


----------



## kelbygreen

looks great! you dont see pitched roofs much lately. Whats the rafters made of dont seem to big but could be the photo and whats the pitching beam made of hard to see in photos to. My shed its pitched roof and I dunno how it hasnt fallen down as the rafter spacings are like 2500mm lol got on there once to seal hole in the second hand iron and it was a massive stride and a steady step in the middle lol. At least the pool table wont get wet


----------



## booargy

good shi-stuff got to get myself a block soon. :icon_drool2:


----------



## Jono_w

Cheers,
I wanted to keep the pitch, otherwise its a waste of space. The shed is a typical colorbond with C section trusses and top hat, I used a truck load of cypress to square the shed up to plaster it, 60 x 35 was used at 500mm centers for the studs and rafters. The pitching beam is 250 x 35 cypress with a 100 x 35 on each side, hard to explain but was needed to build it out to make a corner for the wall - ceiling plaster join.
All in all It would have been faster to stud wall the whole shed inside than trying to screw to the tophat.


----------



## Cocko

Yep, pitched roof - awesome.

You made beer yet?


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> You made beer yet?



Shh.. haha 
soon..

Ran the 10mm2 mains this week so I can plug her in..


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Shh.. haha
> soon..
> 
> Ran the 10mm2 mains this week so I can plug her in..



We have heard all before bro!  

If my mohawk grew back before I ran up my [perfectly built] brewery, I would surely make the effort to brew a beer!

Dude... please!

BREW! PIX! BEER! Sorted...

GO!


----------



## Jono_w

Mate, I know it, you think my mates down here don't give me hell about it daily, luckily with my new location 3 doors down from our local, I tell them where to go... now with a suitable power supply things are looking good.


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Mate, I know it, you think my mates down here don't give me hell about it daily, luckily with my new location 3 doors down from our local, I tell them where to go... now with a suitable power supply things are looking good.



I know bro, 4 years of waiting.. Meh!

Good to see you posting again at least...

where you been, aussiehomefabricating.com? fair enough...

Now brew you fark!

BTW: Well done on the gaff! :kooi:


----------



## poppa joe

Don't look for beer Fermenters..Johno....
Big wine Fermenters are cheaper.....
Same thing ...but cheaper....
That advice comes from a small commercial brewing company..
Cheers
PJ


----------



## Jono_w

poppa joe said:


> Don't look for beer Fermenters..Johno....
> Big wine Fermenters are cheaper.....
> Same thing ...but cheaper....
> That advice comes from a small commercial brewing company..
> Cheers
> PJ



Hey Pj,
Yeah some are the same but i've found any that have conical bottoms and are jacketed are a similar price. There are alot of smaller non jacketed ones around though so they may be an option. 
Cheers


----------



## raven19

Cocko said:


> Good to see you posting again at least...



+1.

Can't believe there is no cellar in that shed though champ!


----------



## Malted

raven19 said:


> Can't believe there is no cellar in that shed though champ!




You seem to encourage a lot of folks to build a cellar. Are you going to build one at Ballhannah? h34r:


----------



## Jono_w

A cellar you say, hmm put that in the things to do list...


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> A cellar you say, hmm put that in the things to do list...




Put it just under 'Brew Beer'


----------



## Jono_w

Update.

Thoughts on suitable Fonts? How many Taps , types of taps? Pictured is a cheapy.


----------



## raven19

With the volume of your brewery batch size, I would imagine large volumes of fewer beers at your place? As such fewer taps?

Ideally you would surely want at least 4 taps though to cater for a range of beers depending on what you feel like after work each night?


----------



## Malted

That slab top is going to come up a treat!


----------



## Jono_w

4 taps would be good I think too, I still hope to be able to brew 50 liter batches. What's the go with taps ? Brands? Yeah slab come up good, was slow cutting with the jigsaw though.


----------



## hsb

Perlicks seem to be _de rigueur_ at the moment.
http://www.homebrewstuff.com/kegging-co2-a...aft-faucet.html

I don't know how they play with fonts though, or which fonts.

Very nice looking setup.


----------



## Malted

Jonathon said:


> 4 taps would be good I think too, I still hope to be able to brew 50 liter batches. What's the go with taps ? Brands? Yeah slab come up good, was slow cutting with the jigsaw though.




Damn those blades for bending and base plates for flexing going around corners! I see it has done that _slightly_ on the round corners (so that the edge is not completely 90 degrees i.e. slightly undercut. I have had some shockers with this problem.

What taps are best seems to be like asking, what car should I buy? 
Two are standouts in my mind.
Perlicks are a great tap that are simple and easy to pull apart for cleaning and maintenance, if this is your choice go the stainless steel ones. They are forward sealing so there is less area of residual beer exposed to air. 
Some folks reckon that Celi's are the ducks nuts because they have a flow control adjuster for easy balancing of different beers. http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1031

Then you have to ask yourself, do you want a cooled font tower with a glycol chiller and recirculating pump?


----------



## stux

Malted said:


> Then you have to ask yourself, do you want a cooled font tower with a glycol chiller and recirculating pump?



I think we know the answer to that question already


----------



## Jono_w

hsb said:


> Perlicks seem to be _de rigueur_ at the moment.
> http://www.homebrewstuff.com/kegging-co2-a...aft-faucet.html
> 
> I don't know how they play with fonts though, or which fonts.
> 
> Very nice looking setup.



Thanks mate, they are a nice looking tap. Reasonable Price too.



Malted said:


> Damn those blades for bending and base plates for flexing going around corners! I see it has done that _slightly_ on the round corners (so that the edge is not completely 90 degrees i.e. slightly undercut. I have had some shockers with this problem.
> 
> What taps are best seems to be like asking, what car should I buy?
> Two are standouts in my mind.
> Perlicks are a great tap that are simple and easy to pull apart for cleaning and maintenance, if this is your choice go the stainless steel ones. They are forward sealing so there is less area of residual beer exposed to air.
> Some folks reckon that Celi's are the ducks nuts because they have a flow control adjuster for easy balancing of different beers. http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1031
> 
> Then you have to ask yourself, do you want a cooled font tower with a glycol chiller and recirculating pump?



So Stainless Perlicks seem to be the way to got then.
Your right the 150mm blade on the jigsaw did have some flex, nothing a good belt sanding wont square up though.




Stux said:


> I think we know the answer to that question already



haha your on to it. If I can over complicate it, I certainly will.


----------



## stux

A great place to get Perlick's and the ss shanks etc to go with them is http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/

Remember to email the guy for a custom quote on shipping as his website is whacked 

Probably cost you 40% of what it would cost to buy here


----------



## Jono_w

Stux said:


> A great place to get Perlick's and the ss shanks etc to go with them is http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/
> 
> Remember to email the guy for a custom quote on shipping as his website is whacked
> 
> Probably cost you 40% of what it would cost to buy here



Thanks mate, 
That's a great start.


----------



## dougsbrew

mate, love the shed, insulation in the walls - no one will hear the screams. :lol: 
im showing those pics to the missus, make it alot easier for my building approval.


----------



## Jono_w

dougsbrew said:


> mate, love the shed, insulation in the walls - no one will hear the screams. :lol:
> im showing those pics to the missus, make it alot easier for my building approval.


Ha , just need a shiny dance pole and its done.. I hope it helps mate, I've heard they can be harder to deal with than the council.


----------



## ledgenko

Guys ... I have a new set up (not yet slammed together) and I have previously asked for advice as far as which part of the 3 V set up should have gretest holding capacity ... 

I want to roll with a 70l HLT, 100l Mashin tun and a 100l Keggle... 

The make up is - 1 x old 70l keg for HLT
2 x 50l legit s/s kegs for tun 
2 x 50l legit s/s kegs for keggle 

And are there any brewerson here (located in Perth) who will weld them together for me as well as attach the taps ? I have already depressurised the kegs and removed the spears ...

Please let me know if this is the best set up for a hopefully 80 lt 3V system? or should I source another keg and make the keggle 150l ?

Matt

Matt


----------



## cdbrown

Not sure if foolish or brave trying to hijack this epic thread looking for a welder! Suggest posting in the WCB forum.


----------



## winkle

cdbrown said:


> Not sure if foolish or brave trying to hijack this epic thread looking for a welder! Suggest posting in the WCB forum.



:angry: 
There was me hoping to see some sweet brewing action......


----------



## ledgenko

CD ... more interetsed in opinions of rig ... thought I might ask if any welders were on here at same time  call me a multi tasker .... 

My bad if I steppped outa line in a forum about big rigs ...


----------



## ledgenko

And I will def be dropping it on the WCB forum  and I am hoping it is option B ... but more likely to be option A TBH .... 


Cheers ... 

Matt


----------



## Jono_w

Hey Guys,
Well there is a lot happening, the bar is almost alive just a few beer lines to run and some timber staining and finishing touches. 
I'm looking for some sturdy bar stools? haven't really got time to build some any ideas?

Brewery made the 10km trip in from the farm to its new home in town. Was a big day for everyone, I think there was a tear!..aha..








-cables have been cleaned up since this was taken.


----------



## Jono_w




----------



## Bongchitis

Jonathon said:


> .........
> I'm looking for some sturdy bar stools? haven't really got time to build some any ideas?
> 
> 
> ..........




Looking great Johnathan. 

Some 50L kegs, legally obtained of course, with a nice stained slab of wood on top is pretty sturdy but involves a bit of building.... tis what I intend to do when time and funds allow. There is a mob around though that converts these kegs and sells them on as a finnished product but I cant for the life of me remember their name.

Cheers mate......Bong


----------



## technoicon

Jonathon said:


> 4 taps would be good I think too, I still hope to be able to brew 50 liter batches. What's the go with taps ? Brands? Yeah slab come up good, was slow cutting with the jigsaw though.




If / When I build a bigger setup, my plan is to do a plain recipe, say 95% trad ale, 5% munich, with a 60min, 1g/l POR addition (for example, 80lt's). Then put it in multiple no chill fermenter's (4 x 20lt cubes), adding hops at the end to change the recipe. also using different yeasts as well, maybe a lager in one and an ale in another.

I know your system's much bigger than those numbers but kinda give you an idea?

edit: looking back through looks like you still dont have fermenters? might be worth getting 3 x 100L?? not sure how the cost compares.



cheers


----------



## stux

Jonathon said:


> View attachment 49346
> 
> -cables have been cleaned up since this was taken.



I notice someone pouring a beer, have you done a brew yet?


----------



## Jono_w

Stux said:


> I notice someone pouring a beer, have you done a brew yet?



That's me. Ha, everyday gets a little closer Stux. Today especially thanks to member Jimbrew ..


----------



## Jono_w

Things are just cruising along this week, in between getting my house re-stumped Iv'e been writing a Basic Manual HMI screen to get things cooking.


----------



## raven19

Screenshot taken at 4am. Noice.

I enjoy updates on this thread mate, but when is the brew day happening!  

Keep up the good work.


----------



## A3k

Hi Jonathon,
how did you find the Advanced HMI software? Seems like decent software which i'm going to give a crack at.

What PLC are you communicating with (i'm sure you've mentioned it earlier)? I noticed it has some good drivers. have you found any issues with the drivers?

I was considering getting a Panelview +, but a laptop is probably easier to start with.

Cheers,
Al


----------



## Jono_w

raven19 said:


> Screenshot taken at 4am. Noice.
> 
> I enjoy updates on this thread mate, but when is the brew day happening!
> 
> Keep up the good work.



Brew day will happen when all the bits start talking to each other nicely. Once the HMI screen is complete I can pretty much run it in manual without too much automation confusing things.



A3k said:


> Hi Jonathon,
> how did you find the Advanced HMI software? Seems like decent software which i'm going to give a crack at.
> 
> What PLC are you communicating with (i'm sure you've mentioned it earlier)? I noticed it has some good drivers. have you found any issues with the drivers?
> 
> I was considering getting a Panelview +, but a laptop is probably easier to start with.
> 
> Cheers,
> Al



Hey Al,
I use a SLC500 5/03 .
I communicate via rs232 at 19200kbs , works really well. I did have some speed issues but got it sorted now. The software is some controls that are added to Visual Basic. So far it has worked great, easy to set up . I have been having some strange errors every now and then but I think with a bit of debugging I'll get it sorted. Seems like the com's are timing out every now and then.
For the price I think it's a fantastic bit of code.

Eventually I would like the interface to be written in PHP so I can access from any device that has internet access. Any web programmers bored and want a project?


Cheers..


----------



## peaky

Jonathon said:


> View attachment 49348




Fark, that's a nice bit of kit! :super:


----------



## gava

beer porn to the max....

I hate to say it but I must dislike you because you have it and I dont  

well done looks really good...


----------



## A3k

Cheers for the info,
I had a look at the software and was pretty easy to use. Just found out the the visual basic wasn't free lime I thought when the trial finished up.

I was actually looking at using a slc as I have one at my disposal.
I'm half considering using a scada package as I have licenses to a few different ones.
I assume it'll be a while before I bother though.

There are a few cheapish controllers that have inbuilt virtual hmi's that can be accessed via the web.


----------



## MarkBastard

Only just noticed this thread, haha it's amazing.


----------



## stux

Jonathon said:


> Hey,
> I'm putting together the parts I need to build a new all stainless steel automated brew setup.
> I have these SS vats that I got at a very reasonable price. 100L brews is the goal..
> <snip>



"*Jul 2 2007*"

Just shy on 6 months to go for the 5 year anniversary Jono


----------



## Cocko

Was gonna say.. umm forgot.

BTW: Brewed with her yet?


----------



## Jono_w

Almost 5 years! wahoo, might be time for a party!  keep your eyes on your lighting, when they dim, she will be alive!..


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Almost 5 years! wahoo, might be time for a party!  keep your eyes on your lighting, when they dim, she will be alive!..



Awesome, cant wait for a "dry" party!  

Come on bro, turn the f^cking thing on! FCS!

:icon_cheers:


----------



## stakka82

Great work Jonathon. 

I only just found this thread too and the set up is awesome, to say the least.

Nothing but respect for you for having: 

1. the balls to commit to a dream like this, and
2. The discipline to see it through.

A set up like yours lurks in the back of all our minds... I take my hat off to you, sir!


----------



## fcmcg

Jonathon said:


> Your right the 150mm blade on the jigsaw did have some flex, nothing a good belt sanding wont square up though.


Loooking nice....
Coulda done your straight cuts with the circular and cleaned it up with the jigger-ma-naught....
Very impressed, however....


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> Awesome, cant wait for a "dry" party!
> 
> Come on bro, turn the f^cking thing on! FCS!
> 
> :icon_cheers:



Who said you were invited? . :huh: haha on a serious note, the 1930's house i'm restoring has the electrical mains of a ,,well 1930's house, new meter box goes in tomorrow , then new sub mains. The 50amps of the brewery would surely have melted the ceramic fuses. Also a lack of main earth cable is worrying. 

As I have said before, long term project of many.

Cheers.


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Who said you were invited? . :huh: haha on a serious note, Blah blah blah blah and have not yet said blah blah...
> 
> As I have said before, long term project of many.
> 
> Cheers.



How long do you have bro? 

5 years to get ready?

SOO out of the gang!


----------



## bum

stakka82 said:


> Nothing but respect for you for having:
> 
> 2. The discipline to see it through.


----------



## JaseH

Jonathon said:


> The 50amps of the brewery would surely have melted the ceramic fuses.



Nothing a bit of coat hanger wire couldn't fix!


----------



## Jono_w

Frothie said:


> Nothing a bit of coat hanger wire couldn't fix!



Ha yeah for sure, not sure the 6mm2 neutral screened mains would like it much though.


----------



## Jono_w

Hey,


Here is the Online Interface i've written for the brewery.
While the Brewery is offline the data will not change and is what ever is left on the server database.
If I have the Brewery online you will see live values and states.

This is only in test mode and has bugs so take it easy on me. Any suggestions welcome.

Although i'd rather not hear the old "have you made beer yet" again.


LINK

Cheers


Jono


----------



## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> Looks amazing mate!
> 
> You don't have to make beer in it to make it awesome...
> 
> I have however made brew in my new rig.
> 
> Just sayin
> 
> Again, awesomeness, as always bro!
> 
> :icon_cheers:



Sh!t Man your quick! 
Cheers Mate,


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Sh!t Man your quick!
> Cheers Mate,



Thats what the Mrs says :angry: 

Cheers!


----------



## JaseH

:blink: 






........I think that is the coolest thing I've ever seen!!?


----------



## MastersBrewery

very nice flash HMI, obviously a client without input, but do you have the same thing for yourself to control it?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

He is seriously over talented.
Nev


----------



## kelbygreen

so when will your beers be available to buy??? I would hate to brew a bad beer and then think shit I got 120lts left to drink


----------



## Jono_w

MastersBrewery said:


> very nice flash HMI, obviously a client without input, but do you have the same thing for yourself to control it?



Hey mate, I have a similar layout written in Visual Basic for the brewery control HMI. Don't think I would enjoy seeing the mash tun tipping out half way through a brew due to a bored hacker.


----------



## Jono_w

kelbygreen said:


> so when will your beers be available to buy??? I would hate to brew a bad beer and then think shit I got 120lts left to drink



Well when I win tatts! the whole licensing side scares the crap out of me. I hope to be able to brew as low as 50L batches. I still have my old 50L brewery also..


----------



## matho

absolutely awesome Jonathon, frigging brilliant


----------



## kelbygreen

just have to get your mates to help you and go in with the ingredients. then they can bring there kegs along and fill them up. Cheap for every one then and that should not break any laws as they paying pitching in on ingredients and they are doing some of the work and no one is making a profit


----------



## Jono_w

matho said:


> absolutely awesome Jonathon, frigging brilliant



Cheers Mate



kelbygreen said:


> just have to get your mates to help you and go in with the ingredients. then they can bring there kegs along and fill them up. Cheap for every one then and that should not break any laws as they paying pitching in on ingredients and they are doing some of the work and no one is making a profit



Yeah for sure mate, that's what we have been thinking, got two big beer clubs that will be welcome to use also.


----------



## Jono_w

Hey guys just another bump on my HMI as I would really like to see if there are any major bugs with it or suggestions please let me know.

Click on the link


----------



## Malted

Jonathon said:


> Hey guys just another bump on my HMI as I would really like to see if there are any major bugs with it or suggestions please let me know.
> 
> Click on the link
> 
> View attachment 53250




Overview page, Kettle clickable area is too large, some of it covers the almost 1/2 the HEX.


----------



## Jono_w

Malted said:


> Overview page, Kettle clickable area is too large, some of it covers the almost 1/2 the HEX.



Fixed, Thanks mate


----------



## Malted

Jonathon said:


> Fixed, Thanks mate



Nope, top 1/3 - 1/2 of the HEX still gets the Kettle response


----------



## Jono_w

Malted said:


> Nope, top 1/3 - 1/2 of the HEX still gets the Kettle response



Clean out you cache or hit refresh


----------



## Malted

Jonathon said:


> Clean out you cache or hit refresh



Sweet site bro


----------



## Jono_w

Malted said:


> Sweet site bro


Cheers mate,


----------



## Jono_w

Today I spun up some coolant coils for my fermenters on the lathe.



What I'm planning on doing is running coolant / heating liquid through one of these in each 140L fermenter to maintain fermentation temp.
The fermenters are single skin stainless and will not be insulated as they look too pretty. our average temp here is 11 at night and 17 during the day. Hopefully It will be controllable or I will need to build a cool room. 
:beer:


----------



## kelbygreen

this thread amazes me every time I look at it.


----------



## Jono_w

kelbygreen said:


> this thread amazes me every time I look at it.



Ha Cheers Mate, 

I started knocking up a motorized 10 shot hop dropper that i designed for the brewery today.

Cutting out the scrap stainless with an angle grinder and special jig..









Almost done, just need to clean up all of the tubes , weld them in place and build a bracket to mount it all. Powered by a geared 24v dc motor underneath.




Cheers
Jono


----------



## Spoonta

mate you have mad skills good work


----------



## Cocko

kelbygreen said:


> this thread amazes me every time I look at it.



Same here KB!

And I know if Jonathan has posted I am about to die a little inside and see something amazing, that I will never have in my own brewery...

Ok, Off to cut myself.

BTW: Jono, amazing looking piece of work as always mate!

:icon_cheers:


----------



## kelbygreen

just awsome! 

what is the build cost so far if you dont mind me asking???


----------



## Jono_w

Spoonta said:


> mate you have mad skills good work



Cheers Mate.
Can't kick a footy for shit though!



Cocko said:


> Same here KB!
> 
> And I know if Jonathan has posted I am about to die a little inside and see something amazing, that I will never have in my own brewery...
> 
> Ok, Off to cut myself.
> 
> BTW: Jono, amazing looking piece of work as always mate!
> 
> :icon_cheers:



Don't go cutting yourself mate, I did it today on a piece of swarf. Little baastard almost took my finger off.



kelbygreen said:


> just awsome!
> 
> what is the build cost so far if you dont mind me asking???



Ah I reckon around $5000, I spend a lot of time recycling. For example, the stainless sheet was a door off an old cabinet and the 50mm tube from a mates dairy. The motor from a scrapped dosing pump.


----------



## kelbygreen

hmm yeah well still great to look at. I was expecting higher then that but if you recycle heaps then that will bring it down


----------



## Jono_w

kelbygreen said:


> hmm yeah well still great to look at. I was expecting higher then that but if you recycle heaps then that will bring it down



If though I was to build another tomorrow and was not able to slowly buy parts as they came up I think it would be a very scary figure.
I have had some great buys on eBay and at auctions.


----------



## iralosavic

Jonathon said:


> Ha Cheers Mate,
> 
> I started knocking up a motorized 10 shot hop dropper that i designed for the brewery today.
> 
> Cutting out the scrap stainless with an angle grinder and special jig..
> View attachment 53446
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Jono



An amazing thread that I've snuck a look at many times. Just wondering - are you able to explain or show me how you mounted the jig to your angle grinder? I'm on the virge of attempting a freehand circle and just saw your contraption and feel foolish for not thinking of it myself.


----------



## kelbygreen

I am sure he used this method.

The handle can be mounted both sides so find a screw the fits into the handle. drill a hole into the "guide" and screw the guide to the handle. 

measure from the blade on the grinder to get your radius ( id say this would not be a true measurement just a trial) 

drill a hole in the centre and do a trial run on a scrape bit

adjust to suit 

trial again and if right do the final cut.


----------



## Jono_w

iralosavic said:


> An amazing thread that I've snuck a look at many times. Just wondering - are you able to explain or show me how you mounted the jig to your angle grinder? I'm on the virge of attempting a freehand circle and just saw your contraption and feel foolish for not thinking of it myself.



Yeah no worries, 
On most grinders there are a say 10mm thread where the handles screw on, I just get a piece of flat bar, drill and bolt it to the grinder. then measure from the disk the radius you need and drill a pivot hole in the flat bar. Find the middle of your piece of plate drill another pivot hole, put a bolt through both , maybe a few washers to space the bar up off the plate a little..

When you cut, 
go around 360 many times, don't try to cut in one or two passes it will not cut neat, i took maybe 10 -15 passes.

Hope this helps, if not I will take a few more picks tomorrow.
Cheers
Jono


----------



## Jono_w

kelbygreen said:


> I am sure he used this method.
> 
> The handle can be mounted both sides so find a screw the fits into the handle. drill a hole into the "guide" and screw the guide to the handle.
> 
> measure from the blade on the grinder to get your radius ( id say this would not be a true measurement just a trial)
> 
> drill a hole in the centre and do a trial run on a scrape bit
> 
> adjust to suit
> 
> trial again and if right do the final cut.



Booya!


----------



## kelbygreen

I aint just a pretty face!! 

wait I aint  

might not be as skilled as you but know a thing or 2  If I could weld I would be happy but sure I will be able to teach my self infact I been meaning to build a burner stand got the bits cut and few days off this week so might try learn  seen dad do it and he was a fitter and turner so sure what he told me is correct, Now just to try it lol


----------



## Jono_w

kelbygreen said:


> I aint just a pretty face!!
> 
> wait I aint
> 
> might not be as skilled as you but know a thing or 2  If I could weld I would be happy but sure I will be able to teach my self infact I been meaning to build a burner stand got the bits cut and few days off this week so might try learn  seen dad do it and he was a fitter and turner so sure what he told me is correct, Now just to try it lol



Hey only way I learn is through necessity, projects like that are perfect for getting the skills up.


----------



## iralosavic

Jonathon said:


> Yeah no worries,
> On most grinders there are a say 10mm thread where the handles screw on, I just get a piece of flat bar, drill and bolt it to the grinder. then measure from the disk the radius you need and drill a pivot hole in the flat bar. Find the middle of your piece of plate drill another pivot hole, put a bolt through both , maybe a few washers to space the bar up off the plate a little..
> 
> When you cut,
> go around 360 many times, don't try to cut in one or two passes it will not cut neat, i took maybe 10 -15 passes.
> 
> Hope this helps, if not I will take a few more picks tomorrow.
> Cheers
> Jono




Thanks for the info, mate. Will come in very handy... once I find a suitable piece of metal hmm...


----------



## kelbygreen

yeah prob 50% my apprenticeship was learnt from teaching myself and 25% was watching people do it and the other 25% was being tought how to do it. Most of the time my dad would just talk to the customers and I would have to figure it out myself if it was wrong got a ear bashing lol. Biggest thing you can learn is problem solving. As my grate grandad did when he got a new worker he would see if there tools where sharp then he asked if they ever made a **** up if they said no then he would say cya later. As he said if you never done a **** up how are you meant to know how to fix one??


----------



## Jono_w

kelbygreen said:


> yeah prob 50% my apprenticeship was learnt from teaching myself and 25% was watching people do it and the other 25% was being tought how to do it. Most of the time my dad would just talk to the customers and I would have to figure it out myself if it was wrong got a ear bashing lol. Biggest thing you can learn is problem solving. As my grate grandad did when he got a new worker he would see if there tools where sharp then he asked if they ever made a **** up if they said no then he would say cya later. As he said if you never done a **** up how are you meant to know how to fix one??



Right on Mate.
Don't even get me started on University graduates !! Only way to really learn is hands on.

So today was a pretty top day.
2 slabs and I have myself another milk vat, this one 800L jacketed and a 2 roller grain crusher!


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## iralosavic

Jonathon said:


> Right on Mate.
> Don't even get me started on University graduates !! Only way to really learn is hands on.
> 
> So today was a pretty top day.
> 2 slabs and I have myself another milk vat, this one 800L jacketed and a 2 roller grain crusher!
> View attachment 53484



Woah! That is a sensational deal. You'd have sold your soul to have paid for your project so far if you weren't so good at finding deals like this!

What are you using it for?


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## stux

Jonathon said:


> Right on Mate.
> Don't even get me started on University graduates !! Only way to really learn is hands on.
> 
> So today was a pretty top day.
> 2 slabs and I have myself another milk vat, this one 800L jacketed and a 2 roller grain crusher!
> View attachment 53484



Sweet...

I foresee an upgrade to your brewery's capacity before you even brew the first beer


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## Jono_w

iralosavic said:


> Woah! That is a sensational deal. You'd have sold your soul to have paid for your project so far if you weren't so good at finding deals like this!
> 
> What are you using it for?



Yeah for sure, just have to be willing to wait for things to show up. This is why it has been an epic journey and may take a little while yet to get running.

I have 3 others of the exact style and brand but 1150L , I am just preparing to go bigger. Maybe I won't need them but at the price I have got them for it's worth stockpiling them for a rainy day.



Stux said:


> Sweet...
> 
> I foresee an upgrade to your brewery's capacity before you even brew the first beer



I'm determined to get a beer out of the current system before I start anything else, my mates will kill me otherwise, and i'll cop it on here also!!  


Cheers
Jono


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## iralosavic

You're going to need to sell your first brewery so you can buy a truck so you can move the second one around once it's built


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## malt_shovel

Jonathon said:


> Today I spun up some coolant coils for my fermenters on the lathe.
> View attachment 53424
> 
> What I'm planning on doing is running coolant / heating liquid through one of these in each 140L fermenter to maintain fermentation temp.
> The fermenters are single skin stainless and will not be insulated as they look too pretty. our average temp here is 11 at night and 17 during the day. Hopefully It will be controllable or I will need to build a cool room.
> :beer:



Dude,
They look sick, but for my mind they look mighty small for a 140L fermentor.

Before you commit to installing these, I would see if you can somehow test this on a similar vessel / wort volume (using water) to see how the temp changes. Ale ferments particularly can generate a fair whack of their own heat that can quickly get out of control, even in a fridge with 20L of wort.

Two problems I see:
- The external surface area of the fermenter will be far larger than the surface area in contact with fermenting wort with the coils, so you will be facing an uphill battle with the external environment.
- The surface area is confined to a relatively small volume that will need a lot of liquid movement to transfer the heat away or into the fermenting wort. Though there are thermal currents / CO2 bubbles that provide some movement, I am not confident a fermenting volume of wort will have the kind of transfer you would need to adjust the temp within a reasonable amount of time.

Best of luck and keep the updates coming. We are all loving this story!


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## Jono_w

malt_shovel said:


> Dude,
> They look sick, but for my mind they look mighty small for a 140L fermentor.
> 
> Before you commit to installing these, I would see if you can somehow test this on a similar vessel / wort volume (using water) to see how the temp changes. Ale ferments particularly can generate a fair whack of their own heat that can quickly get out of control, even in a fridge with 20L of wort.
> 
> Two problems I see:
> - The external surface area of the fermenter will be far larger than the surface area in contact with fermenting wort with the coils, so you will be facing an uphill battle with the external environment.
> - The surface area is confined to a relatively small volume that will need a lot of liquid movement to transfer the heat away or into the fermenting wort. Though there are thermal currents / CO2 bubbles that provide some movement, I am not confident a fermenting volume of wort will have the kind of transfer you would need to adjust the temp within a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> Best of luck and keep the updates coming. We are all loving this story!



This is what I need to know mate, 
I found  this site  that has a few formulas :huh: , I really need to figure out the engergy the fermentation creates and offset it while also consider the ambient temp.
I thought I might start with 1 then and another until I m able to control the temp. A lot of experimentation is on the cards.

I'm open to suggestions as getting info on systems this size is difficult .

Cheers.


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## Thefatdoghead

Nice work mate it's absolutely incredible what you have done! I have been wondering how are you going to make a starter for such large batches and what will you use for packaging. Excuse me if this has already been asked but such a long thread.

cheers

Gav


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## Jono_w

Gav80 said:


> Nice work mate it's absolutely incredible what you have done! I have been wondering how are you going to make a starter for such large batches and what will you use for packaging. Excuse me if this has already been asked but such a long thread.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Gav



Thanks Gav,
I have looked into a yeast brink setup but for now its on the back burner. Prob just a very expensive load of liquid yeast for the first couple.  
For the first brews i'll try only brew 50L , not sure how the mashtun will handle this.

Storage in 50L kegs. No bottling for a while, well untill i build a bottling plant..haha


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## Thefatdoghead

Jonathon said:


> Thanks Gav,
> I have looked into a yeast brink setup but for now its on the back burner. Prob just a very expensive load of liquid yeast for the first couple.
> For the first brews i'll try only brew 50L , not sure how the mashtun will handle this.
> 
> Storage in 50L kegs. No bottling for a while, well untill i build a bottling plant..haha


It's just crazyness!!! I love it. Keep it up, cant wait to see your first full volume brewday!!


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## kelbygreen

I know you laugh at the bottling plant but I am sure you will have a bottle station or keg station lol


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## stux

I only just scaled my whole setup to the original triple/60L design capacity.... And it felt good 

Can't imagine commissioning your 140L monster


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## kelbygreen

lol I am doing 66lts tomorrow but using 2 MT and using my HLT to boil the single batch. I could prob squeeze a triple in the pot I have but this way I get 2 beers a ale and a pilsner


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## malt_shovel

Jonathon said:


> This is what I need to know mate,
> I found this site that has a few formulas :huh: , I really need to figure out the engergy the fermentation creates and offset it while also consider the ambient temp.
> I thought I might start with 1 then and another until I m able to control the temp. A lot of experimentation is on the cards.
> 
> I'm open to suggestions as getting info on systems this size is difficult .
> 
> Cheers.



I guess there are two ways,

Try to calculate the loads etc using some formulas you are tracking down, or try to copy what is done commercially and apply to your fermentors dimensions.

I think a good starting point would be to look towards jacketed fermentors. By this I mean work out from a commercial system the ratio of surface area of the jacketed part of a twin walled vessel to the volume capacity, and then apply that ratio to the volume of your fermenter. This will give you a scaled up / down version of what sort of surface area you would need with your immersion coils. The only problem with taking this approach is it doesn't account for the "blanket" effect a jacketed system would have against the external temps and it doesn't account for the differnce between what cooling fluid you are planning to use through the coils against what the commercial guys use (probably a glycol chiller).

If nothing else it will give you a quick idea on how close you are with the coils you already have made. Also would look to have coils which have a wider arc / diameter to reduce the "cool" spots you would expect with the ones you have already. This might avoid having to move fermenting wort around the smaller coils.

For input to your other calculations, I would use a temp increase around 3 - 5 degC during ale ferments (as compared to the ambient temp) to get a feel for the thermal load.

Not sure how to tackle the problem of movement within the fermenter short of using an agitator that gently swirls things around. 

That's all i got dude, hope someone can offer something more concrete.

Cheers


----------



## Jono_w

malt_shovel said:


> I guess there are two ways,
> 
> Try to calculate the loads etc using some formulas you are tracking down, or try to copy what is done commercially and apply to your fermentors dimensions.
> 
> I think a good starting point would be to look towards jacketed fermentors. By this I mean work out from a commercial system the ratio of surface area of the jacketed part of a twin walled vessel to the volume capacity, and then apply that ratio to the volume of your fermenter. This will give you a scaled up / down version of what sort of surface area you would need with your immersion coils. The only problem with taking this approach is it doesn't account for the "blanket" effect a jacketed system would have against the external temps and it doesn't account for the differnce between what cooling fluid you are planning to use through the coils against what the commercial guys use (probably a glycol chiller).
> 
> If nothing else it will give you a quick idea on how close you are with the coils you already have made. Also would look to have coils which have a wider arc / diameter to reduce the "cool" spots you would expect with the ones you have already. This might avoid having to move fermenting wort around the smaller coils.
> 
> For input to your other calculations, I would use a temp increase around 3 - 5 degC during ale ferments (as compared to the ambient temp) to get a feel for the thermal load.
> 
> Not sure how to tackle the problem of movement within the fermenter short of using an agitator that gently swirls things around.
> 
> That's all i got dude, hope someone can offer something more concrete.
> 
> Cheers


Ok that's a great start, I have a bit more research to do. I would rather not have to jacket the tanks maybe a cool room is easier.


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## mjadeb1984

any updates jonathon been hanging out for some more of your madness.


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## QldKev

next progress report is not due for another 6 months. h34r:

any chance you work for the Government?


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## Jono_w

Sorry Guys it has been a while, I'm up in Airlie Beach for a week I will update when I get home. 
Any Breweries up here?

Just turned 30 so I jumped out of a plane at 14,000 feet.




CHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS!


----------



## RobW

Happy Birthday Jonathon


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## eviljesus

Jonathon said:


> Sorry Guys it has been a while, I'm up in Airlie Beach for a week I will update when I get home.
> Any Breweries up here?
> 
> Just turned 30 so I jumped out of a plane at 14,000 feet.
> 
> View attachment 54147
> 
> 
> CHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS!



Good stuff! I'm from Airlie, going to be back there in 2 weeks!

If you havent already. You absolutely CANNOT leave until you have visited Denham Cellars. It down at the new Port of Airlie area. Drink there or takeway. 

200+ beers and 100+ types of cider. The place is like heaven. The literally have almost everything. Thats the only place for decent beer though.


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## Jono_w

eviljesus said:


> Good stuff! I'm from Airlie, going to be back there in 2 weeks!
> 
> If you havent already. You absolutely CANNOT leave until you have visited Denham Cellars. It down at the new Port of Airlie area. Drink there or takeway.
> 
> 200+ beers and 100+ types of cider. The place is like heaven. The literally have almost everything. Thats the only place for decent beer though.



Mate I owe you.
The beer selection in the backpackers sucks.
Leaving on Wednesday , up here for a wedding..


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## eviljesus

Jonathon said:


> Mate I owe you.
> The beer selection in the backpackers sucks.
> Leaving on Wednesday , up here for a wedding..



Not a problem at all. 

Get stuck in! Let me know how you go.

The bloke that owns the place really knows his shit about beer. Another bloke named Andy knows his ciders back to front. 

I spent ALOT of money and ALOT of hours down there when I was back for a 2 week blast. The place has that effect...

Enjoy!


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## booargy

I stopped skydiving to put money into building a brewery. 3 years and I am hanging for some jumps.


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## Jono_w

If anyone is ever near Airlie Beach Check out Denmans cellars for sure, great selection.

only had time for 3 beers

Pauwel - Kwak
Leffe - Radieuse
Monks - Elixir

Good times
Cheers


----------



## eviljesus

Jonathon said:


> If anyone is ever near Airlie Beach Check out Denmans cellars for sure, great selection.
> 
> only had time for 3 beers
> 
> Pauwel - Kwak
> Leffe - Radieuse
> Monks - Elixir
> 
> Good times
> Cheers



I was back for 2 weeks at the end of March. I worked my way through about 90 beers over the course of that time time (and a literal shit tonne of dollars)

I've just started all-graining. I'm going back halfway through may for a week. I'll be taking my notepad so I can write down EXACTLY what I like and I'll be brewing it at home.


----------



## eviljesus

Jonathon said:


> If anyone is ever near Airlie Beach Check out Denmans cellars for sure, great selection.
> 
> only had time for 3 beers
> 
> Pauwel - Kwak
> Leffe - Radieuse
> Monks - Elixir
> 
> Good times
> Cheers



I was back for 2 weeks at the end of March. I worked my way through about 90 beers over the course of that time time (and a literal shit tonne of dollars)

I've just started all-graining. I'm going back halfway through may for a week. I'll be taking my notepad so I can write down EXACTLY what I like and I'll be brewing it at home.


----------



## Zizzle

eviljesus said:


> Good stuff! I'm from Airlie, going to be back there in 2 weeks!



I KNEW IT!

Qld will bring the Rapture!

Eviljesus is from Qld!


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## Cocko

So....

How the single V build going?

Any updates here c&nt?

Dare I ask?

Hom


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## Jono_w

Cocko said:


> So....
> 
> How the single V build going?
> 
> Any updates here c&nt?
> 
> Dare I ask?
> 
> Hom



Good Thanks


----------



## Cocko

Jonathon said:


> Good Thanks



Good then...



BTW: Well played...


----------

