# Style Of The Week 8/6/10 - American Stout



## Stuster (8/6/10)

So with winter upon us, stouts seem a good beer to be brewing and drinking. We've done a number of the other stout styles, so this week (and by request) we have American Stout. A bigger, bolder stout (though not up to RIS levels), often with the added bonus of American hops (not something everyone approves of  ). 

*Links*
All about beer magazine article
Brewing Techniques article
NY Times article

So tell us all you know about brewing an American Stout. What grains? (This is obviously going to be a crucial aspect of this beer.) Which dark grains do you prefer? Dark grains late? A heap of crystal? Partial mash options? Do you hop it up? With what hops? Which yeast do you favour? Just a clean ale yeast? How long do you let them condition? Anybody managed to drink some of these? Which ones? Any available here?

Tell us all you know so we can make some delicious dark beer. :icon_drunk: 



BJCP Style 13E



> 13E. American Stout
> 
> Aroma: Moderate to strong aroma of roasted malts, often having a roasted coffee or dark chocolate quality. Burnt or charcoal aromas are low to none. Medium to very low hop aroma, often with a citrusy or resiny American hop character. Esters are optional, but can be present up to medium intensity. Light alcohol-derived aromatics are also optional. No diacetyl.
> 
> ...


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## jayse (8/6/10)

Shakespeare stout is easy enough to find nowadays, had my first the other week and really enjoyed it.

apparantly 11% chocmalt 11% dark crystal around about the same oatmeal and 1.5% roast barley according to the brewing network with cascade on the end.

Dispite what most would think the cascade does work in this choc malt and dark crystal riddled beer, it is a great balance.

I would like to brew that recipe but still not too sure on which dark crystal might work best when your using such a huge ammount of it. Cararoma would be too much I would expect but something around 250-280ebc like bairds dark maybe.


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## Stuster (8/6/10)

Good info that, Jayse. I do have some Pacman yeast slurry. Hmm. So many beers to make, so little time.


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## brendanos (8/6/10)

I tried the Sierra Nevada recently, though it was past it's BBD. Very chocolatey, hops had gone piney, not a lot of bitterness (hop or roast) though from memory when young it was citrusy, quite bitter and fresh tasting - i'm guessing not a lot of black/roast malt in these bitter beers.

Chloride:sulphate? 1:1?

I'd probably be adding calcium as sulphate, chloride & carbonate.... if i knew what was in my water.


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## Stuster (8/6/10)

Bumped for the evening stout brewers.





Or even for brewers of stout. :icon_cheers:


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## Quintrex (8/6/10)

Mhh one of these is next on my brewing list... despite my initial concerns about how cascade goes with the stoutyness, from the last example or two I've tasted I've decided it goes very well indeed. 

Looking forward to some good recipes.

Q


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## brendanos (9/6/10)

Here's one courtesy of JamesL (with his permission). He won the "people's choice award" with this beer (with an overwhelming 24 out of possible 27 points) at the recent West Coast Brewers American Ales competition.

I can vouch for it being a brilliant rich and well balanced beer with a smooth chocolatey roast character and discernable American hopping (think choc orange) and bitterness.

The judges thought it could do with more hops... but they'd just judged AIPA.

American Stout:

Batch Size: 30L
Boil Size: 36L
Brewhouse efficiency: 73%

Recipe:
6.00kg Baudin Pale Malt
0.80kg Munich Malt (joe white)
0.34kg Crystal 40L (joe white)
0.34kg Chocolate malt (jow white)
0.25kg roast barley (joe white)
0.20kg roast malt wheat (jow white)

66gm Horizon hops 11.3%aa 60mins
20gm cascade hops 8.0% aa 5 mins
20gm centennial hops 9.4% aa 5 mins

Alc: 5.8%
OG: 1060
FG: 1016
IBUs: 60.9
colour 86.3 EBCs

Mash temp 68C
30 min Sac rest
Safale US04 yeast used.
fermented at 16C

Thanks James!


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## Stuster (9/6/10)

Now that does look nice to me. Choc orange certainly sounds nice. :icon_drool2:


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## bum (9/6/10)

Sorry for the OT question but Stuster's OP prompted me to think about this. I'm a pretty new convert to all things stouty and what converted me was an American RIS (North Coast Brewing Old Rasputin RIS). So, in turn, I tired more of them then "regular" stouts and found them to my liking). How much is an American RIS likely to be different to a "traditional" RIS and how much does an American stout differ from a UK stout (apart from the use of American hops)? I guess I'm asking if American hops might be the only effective difference (remembering I'm new to commercial stouts and have certainly never brewed one).


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## Stuster (9/6/10)

I think I can answer that question soon, bum. SWMBO has just recently come back from the states, bearing some Old Rasputin (among others). Haven't cracked it yet but will fairly soon and will post any thoughts I have on the difference between that and other stouts I've had.

Stouts definitely are good. Maybe grab a few to see if you like any of the local produce. I think there are a number of good stouts produced here. But where oh where has Southwark stout gone.


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## bum (9/6/10)

I am trying as many as I can get my hands on, I assure you (even brewing a robust porter (of sorts) next in preparation for a stout). I'm all sorted for getting my head around the "traditional" style but I guess I'm wondering if my tastes might lean more towards American stouts (as they do with pale ales) but can only ask about the differences since I can't get any commercial examples until I go back.

If you don't mind me saying so before you've tried it, the bottled version of Old Rasputin is very nice but the tap version is absolute magic. I literally went from not understanding these darkest of beers to being head over heels in love and being able to work backwards from there to even find something enjoyable in a BUL Guinness (though not all of it, of course). Very much looking forward to reading your impressions.

Ace of Spades is next on my list.

[EDIT: oh yeah, I meant to ask - what are the other US beers you declined to mention? I know this is a massive derail so PM is fine if you have the time. I've been pretty much obsessed with the beers I had there recently and would love to get your impressions of your haul.]


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## jayse (9/6/10)

Not sure about imperial stouts but the difference between american stout and foriegn extra stout are pretty well laid out in the style guides. The foriegn extra stout already is made up of two different beers, the tropical version and the export version, american is just another version really but gets its own catergory with the bjcp.

Foriegn extra stout is already a broad style so american stout would fit right into that same catergory with simply an add on the same way they go about differentiating between tropical and export.

American being more toward the export version and the bold/high end of the roasted, coffee and choc flavours and also bitterness, with the added american hops.

Your question is basically
Discribe and differentiate between these three styles.
Thats how the bjcp put it to you in the exam.


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## Kai (9/6/10)

jayse said:


> Shakespeare stout is easy enough to find nowadays, had my first the other week and really enjoyed it.
> 
> apparantly 11% chocmalt 11% dark crystal around about the same oatmeal and 1.5% roast barley according to the brewing network with cascade on the end.
> 
> ...



Jaysingtonsworth,

I think caraaroma would definitely be too much, perhaps give some simpsons dark crystal a try. I wouldn't be afraid to cut back a portion of that 11% with a lighter crystal just to mellow it out a little too...


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## bum (9/6/10)

jayse said:


> Your question is basically
> Discribe and differentiate between these three styles.
> Thats how the bjcp put it to you in the exam.


 
I'm sure you're right but I'm also sure you understand I'm pretty far from being ready to sit the BJCP exam (I'm way too drunk). 

Thanks very much for your input. It sheds some light on the issue (or what I need to read up on at the very least). 

Cheers.


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## Stuster (9/6/10)

bum said:


> Ace of Spades is next on my list.



Now that is an excellent beer (on tap) IMO.

Will PM you about the US haul (only 6 beers so perhaps not a haul). Might not be tonight though. :icon_drunk: 

I think you make a good point, Kai. 11% dark crystal does sound like a lot to me.


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## Kai (10/6/10)

It's an excellent beer out of bottle too, in my humble opinion.


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## jayse (10/6/10)

I have drunk a hell of a lot of Ace of Spades, tasty stuff indeed, You'll find it along with other brewboys beers on tap at the local taphouses now.

re 11%, it does sound like a lot to us, nothing suprising for an American recipe though :huh: scatch head!


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## Fourstar (10/6/10)

jayse said:


> Your question is basically
> Discribe and differentiate between these three styles.
> Thats how the bjcp put it to you in the exam.



i just had compare these three styles in my exam, "American Stout, Robust Porter, Foreign Extra Stout". :lol: 

Biggest difference between all the stouts compared with the American is typically its an imperialised version of their traditional cousin and are generally always complimented by a big late hop addition.

e.g. a dry stout might be brewed to 6% abv with constant hopping throughout the whole boil (probably with local hops too.) Just as a rough example.


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## O'Henry (10/6/10)

When you say a big late hop addition, how big are we talking? The recipe posted by bredanos has 1.33g/l @ 5mins. Is this a big addition for this beer? Can the hops be easily masked/overpowered by the other flavours? It seems even Jamil's recipe calls for a similar level of hops at 5 mins (1oz of centennial @ 5 mins in a 6 USgal boil). Just trying to get my head around what is a good balance of the flavours and what would be 'extreme' hopping...

Edit: Bad maths...


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## brendanos (10/6/10)

IMO James' could have done with a tad more hop aroma and flavour.


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## O'Henry (10/6/10)

brendanos said:


> IMO James' could have done with a tad more hop aroma and flavour.



I really feel we should be studying more...


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## Fourstar (10/6/10)

i wouldnt say its extreme hopping more-so bigger than their traditional counterparts. e.g. a traditional dry stout has no late additions so anything late is going to 'americanise it' if that makes sense?


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## browndog (10/6/10)

At a brew day some time back I had a selection of American beers courtesy of a workmate. One of them was Obsidian Stout from Deschuetes Brewery. Everyone commented that it was an awesome stout. The hoppiness blended pertectly with the roastyness to produce a very smooth, flavoursome stout. I enjoyed it so much I got the recipe from Jamil's Can you brew it podcast. Turns out that black malt is used for the colour and flavour with only 50g of roast barley used. A good whack of crystal and some carapils round out the malt profile and 3 30g additions of hops prvide bitterness and flavour. The brew is just about ready to CC and is tasting great.

cheers

Browndog


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## mxd (10/6/10)

I just put this in to a comp as an Foreign Extra Stout, does that look roughly in the right area ?


Recipe: Matts Stout
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Foreign Extra Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (10.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 30.49 L
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 37.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 60.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 55.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.00 kg Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) Grain 44.44 % 
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (3.Grain 44.44 % 
0.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain 5.56 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (381.0 SRM) Grain 2.78 % 
0.25 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (710.0 SRM) Grain 2.78 % 
35.00 gm Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 41.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (30 min) Hops 11.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 2.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.5 IBU 
15.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.4 IBU


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## Fourstar (10/6/10)

mxd said:


> I just put this in to a comp as an Foreign Extra Stout, does that look roughly in the right area ?



As a dry version of a foreign, pretty close! Although i would have x2 the dark malt %'s!
If its a tropical version, it would require 7-10% of medium to dark crystals to get the sweet plum/dark fruit notes.


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## Dazza_devil (10/6/10)

Here's an Extract American Stout that I bottled 19th Dec '09. I still have a dozen stubbies and a tally tucked away conditioning in my beer fridge and it's turning out OK. It was a result of what I had left over of grains and American Hops. 

Boagsy's Americano Stout

OG around 1.068
26 litres (27 with the vanilla bean and dex. solution)
3kg Coopers LME
2kg LDME

44g Chocolate Malt
36g Carafa II
212g Roast Barley
80g Caramunich II
70g Carapils
200g Black Malt

25g Simcoe @ 60mins
25g Simcoe @ 30mins
15g Simcoe @ 15 mins
9g Cascade @ 10mins
7g Simcoe @ 10 mins
10g Willamette pellets thrown straight into wort to stay @ flameout

rehyrdated 23g US05 pitched @ 20 degrees C and fermented @ 19 degrees C.

I placed a split and scraped vanilla bean + pulp in a 1 litre/170g dextrose solution boiled it and let it sit over night. Then I boiled it up again, cooled and threw the lot in at around day 3 of fermentation. This is where I thought I had stuffed up with too much vanilla bean and tannins from the pod but it's mellowed out OK. In retrospect I would probably just use the pulp next time but all is well that ends well and it's really quite drinkable, very rich and flavoursome.

FG was around 1.020

I reckon it could be something else in another 6 months or so.


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## brettprevans (25/8/11)

*CM2's US Stout & US Amarillo Stout*
Beer profile: Volume: 38L OG1.072 FG: 1.017 IBU 70 ABV: 7% 

*Ingredients:*
12.2kg Ale
820g Black Barley
620g Light Crystal
620g Chocolate malt
good handful of Rye
good handful of torrified wheat (or as i keep typing by mistake on AHB via the iphone 'terrified wheat')

35g Amarillo @ First Wort Hop (AA 10% ) 
28g Amarillo @ 5min, 
french press 30g Amarillo post fermentation into half the batch

Water Treatment - 5.2 stabilizer in Mash 
Yeast Blend of US05 & Pacman 

Mash Profile: 60 min Mash @ 68C. raise to mash and and batch sparge. 


*Notes*
I French pressed 30g of Amarillo and added to keg once carbed. Process was as follows:
- boiled 250ml of water & bought up to almost boil 250ml of fermented Amarillo beer and added hops for 1min steep. drained hop tea and let cool.
- Added another 250ml of boiling water & to almost boil 250ml of fermented Amarillo Stout and let steep for 10min, then drain and let cool.
- Add 1L of hop tea to keg and mix.

Now normally in French pressing you just use water (or so ive read). However hop utilisation is better in wort (yes I know fermented wort is no longer wort its beer), and I didnt want to dilute the beer. So I halved the water and used the finished beer to make up volume. French pressing like this should not only give an extra belt of aroma and flavour but it shouldnt have the grassyness of dry hopping.


*Tasting notes *
Stock US Stout (no french press)
Black as midnight with hints of mahagony in the daylight. good clarity with light medium tan head. 
hints of choc and roast melding well into good strong stout flavours coming through with a very mild citrus bitterness. 
Thick and full mouthfeel and body. Pleasant lingering bitterness

Stock US Stout & french press)
as above but with a wonderful citrus twist


*Special notes and why I brewed it.*
I wanted to brew a double batch of this recipe and play with it. Keeping half the batch within BJCP guidelines with a slightly unusual hop for a stout that was good for competitions and to compare with any experiments I did with the other have a batch. I ummd and arghd about which keg to present at the Melbourne Brewers Club Dinner. The BJCP or Experiment keg. The experiment keg won out. I would recommend brewing a few batches like this (ie double batch, leave one to style and play with one). It provides a great way to compare beers.

The base recipe (without French pressing) is a great stock US Stout in my opinion. There are so many tweaks a brewer could make to this beer to deliver a different tasting beer every time. Im a fan of big dark beers, especially stouts, but wanted to try something slightly different. 

will have to see that the attendees of the club dinner think about the experiment keg and report back


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## Stuster (26/8/11)

That looks really nice, CM. :icon_drool2: 

Interesting french press technique there and seems that it worked in not getting any grassiness in there. I've never tried french pressing for some reason but feel inspired now.


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## brettprevans (26/8/11)

Stuster said:


> That looks really nice, CM. :icon_drool2:
> 
> Interesting french press technique there and seems that it worked in not getting any grassiness in there. I've never tried french pressing for some reason but feel inspired now.


well i guess its an experiment of the french press technique using beer rather than just hot water. I have to sya, that the beer wasnt as hot as i would have liked it to be as i didnt want to destroy any beer flavour that it already had or produce any off flavours. if i had have had some %alc to play with, I might have just used water. i guess we will see what the club thinks

only issue i encoutered was the other night after i tapped the keg to pour off any yeast/trub from the keg. the keg leaked a little and I lost a few litres, so only about 16-7L left i think


Im really happy with the stock beer to be honest. I dont think its needs the extra amarillo if you just wanted a good drinking stout. its thick and lucious and relatively simple without being lackluster or 1 dimentional.


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## hillbillybreweries (26/8/11)

In days of old most of us used to do a couple of brews per dinner beer to make sure the beer was outstanding quality. If there were faults you would never hear the end of it. Personally I don't mind American stout and have been happy drinking Sierra Nevada and also like the very basic recipe in the classic beer styles stout book. I know some other examples are much more over the top than those. Not many of our club members seem to have brewed them in the past. Be interesting to see how this years beers stack up and look forward to trying your stout in a few hours.


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## brettprevans (27/8/11)

hillbillybreweries said:


> In days of old most of us used to do a couple of brews per dinner beer to make sure the beer was outstanding quality. If there were faults you would never hear the end of it. Personally I don't mind American stout and have been happy drinking Sierra Nevada and also like the very basic recipe in the classic beer styles stout book. I know some other examples are much more over the top than those. Not many of our club members seem to have brewed them in the past. Be interesting to see how this years beers stack up and look forward to trying your stout in a few hours.


Had I had time to test the beer I woulf have. But as I only volunteered to lut somethi.g in as there werent enough beers, u guys get what u get. Also if time had of permitted I would have french pressed earlyier than tuesday. there was a lot of fresh hop resin in the beer last night. But the kwg was finished so it cabt have been too bad! 

So interesting to see how differant the beer was to tbe stock one. It was a completely differant beer.
I got some good feedback last night. hope u enjoyed it.


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## brettprevans (24/1/12)

another report back on this beer. the keg that i didnt french press still has some left. its drinking beautifully!!! such a great recipe. planning on doing another batch and having another play with diff hops or something else.


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## kyleg (15/6/13)

> Here's one courtesy of JamesL (with his permission). He won the "people's choice award" with this beer (with an overwhelming 24 out of possible 27 points) at the recent West Coast Brewers American Ales competition.
> 
> I can vouch for it being a brilliant rich and well balanced beer with a smooth chocolatey roast character and discernable American hopping (think choc orange) and bitterness.
> 
> ...


By 30 min sac rest, are you saying only a 30 min saccharification rest? I.e a 30 min mash?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/6/13)

Just when I was thinking of brewing either a true American Stout, or possibly repitching some Belgian Ale yeast (after brewing a Belgian Blond that I'm about 3 weeks overdue on) onto an American Stout wort to make Jean Claude Van Damn-stout.

Glad for these recipes, they'll give me some inspiration.


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## cremmerson (15/6/13)

I'm still trying to recreate the Southwark Old Stout. First try gave me something approaching an Imperial, so will keep going to get caramel, roast, toffee flavours with low bitterness and long palate.


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## /// (15/6/13)

Alesmith Speedway stout is killer - tough gig having a pint and trying to drive afterwards ....

http://alesmith.com/beers/speedway-stout/

It's a RIS, but like all their beers worth it.


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## Phoney (21/5/14)

With winter just a week away and all 4 kegs of mine full, I figure now is a good time to put down a big ass stout for the long cold months ahead. So with that in mind, I'm thinking an American stout, slipping into the territory of a RIS & BIPA.
I've read dozens of recipes and all the guidelines and here's what I've come up with so far:


21L batch
OG 1.080
IBU 75
ABV 8.1%

6.26kg Pale Malt 80%
450g medium crystal 5.8%
380g Roast Barley 4.8%
380g Chocolate 4.8%
150g TF Black Malt 1.9%
200g Oats 2.6%

40g Apollo 17% AA @ 60 
20g Amarillo 8% @ 10
20g Centennial 10% @ 0

Wyeast 1272 American Ale II


The plan is to keg 9L to enjoy right away, and keg another 9L to age on bourbon barrel chips for 3+ months. More on that later.


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## Snow (31/5/14)

Gotta love this website! Looking to brew a stout for our upcomming club minicomp and realised I had never brewed an American Stout! "hey" I said to myself, ""have a look at what the crew say on AHB about this curious style". Nekminit... I be brewing a Snow version of American Stout. And here it is:
​*Batch Size:* 25.00 L
*Brewhouse Efficiency:* 70%
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 51.15 %
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 25.58 % 0.70 kg Oats, Simpsons Naked Golden (1.0 SRM) Grain 8.95 %
0.50 kg Carafa II (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM) Grain 6.39 %
0.50 kg Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.39 %
0.12 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (710.0 SRM) Grain 1.53 %
30.00 gm Magnum [14.70 %] (60 min) Hops 38.4 IBU
30.00 gm Simcoe [11.70 %] (10 min) Hops 11.1 IBU
30.00 gm Cascade [7.40 %] (5 min) Hops 3.9 IBU
30.00 gm Centennial [9.20 %] (5 min) Hops 4.8 IBU
1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Craftbrewer) Yeast-Ale 
*Measured Original Gravity:* 1.067 SG
_*Bitterness:*_ 58.2 IBU
*Mash*: 68C

Farkin smelled awesome this arvo.

Update in a few weeks.......

Cheers -Snow,


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