# The Demise Of Another Brewery



## Whistlingjack (16/10/09)

Quoted from "Albany and Great Southern Weekender" dated 15 October 2009...

"Albany's Tanglehead Brewing Company has been placed in liquidation"

Company spokesman Simon Bairstow stated "The owners had a vision to bring a micro-brewing and restaurant concept to Albany and had high hopes of success. However, the current economic crisis and general difficulties being experienced broadly by the hospitality industry meant the business wasn't able to recover"

Nothing to say about the poor standard of brewing?

WJ


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## mika (16/10/09)

What's happening with your Venture WJ ? Maybe a good option for you, firesale and all of that, buy in cheap and revamp the joint.


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## clean brewer (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> Quoted from "Albany and Great Southern Weekender" dated 15 October 2009...
> 
> "Albany's Tanglehead Brewing Company has been placed in liquidation"
> 
> ...



Very tough game Hospitality, doesnt matter how good anything is.... <_< 

Weddings are the Goldmine, forget Restaurants in General and the public supporting you... Put a Wedding Reception Venue together with A Micro-Brewery and you have a winner...  

We are now going great guns with weddings and if I won Gold Lotto, I would put in a Micro Brewery aswell, the 2 would be an awesome match...

:icon_cheers: CB


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## chappo1970 (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> Quoted from "Albany and Great Southern Weekender" dated 15 October 2009...
> 
> "Albany's Tanglehead Brewing Company has been placed in liquidation"
> 
> ...



Sad really Australia just hasn't been able toween itself of the Megaswill. I was in the state 2 years ago and it seemed like every second town had it's own brewery. It was sensational! Have a look at BABBs members Ross and Pocket beers FFS 300 craft beers in 2 weeks!  

What happens when the yanks come here? 3 craft/micro breweries FFS?

Sometimes Aussie ignorance makes me cry.

Chap Chap


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## Whistlingjack (16/10/09)

Chappo...

Slow down and say that again...

WJ


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## clean brewer (16/10/09)

Chappo said:


> Sad really Australia just hasn't been able toween itself of the Megaswill. I was in the state 2 years ago and it seemed like every second town had it's own brewery. It was sensational! Have a look at BABBs members Ross and Pocket beers FFS 300 craft beers in 2 weeks!
> 
> What happens when the yanks come here? 3 craft/micro breweries FFS?
> 
> ...



Craft Breweries are like good Food mate, very hard to do and sell  .....

Megaswill and Shit Food.... Big Winner... Unfortunately... :angry: 

*And it all starts from your kids*, feed em shit, they will keep eating shit....... Give em Food with Colour, Flavour and Aroma and they will grow up Eating and Drinking Food/Wine/Beer with Colour, Flavour and Aroma.....

:icon_cheers: CB


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## haysie (16/10/09)

Spit it out Chappo,
If we were weening ourselves off of megaswill, perhaps the Japs (Kirin) would go away. The yanks??? Who What beer. FFS get out of your hole and experience real beer.


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## b_thomas (16/10/09)

Heavy marketing towards a drinking society is what has the vast majority of the populance drinking CUB or LN beers. My partner's work is having an Oktoberfest (in late October so you know they had it wrong from the get go) ... their idea of top notch imports in the spirit of the event are Beck's, Heineken and Stella Artois! FFS only one is actually German and it's not even Bavarian, in fact all of those beers are national equivalents for our VB ableit a little tastier.

It does come down in part to ignorance, but I think a lot of it is that hops, malt and yeast esters/phenols ie. flavour are a bit beyond most or at least take too much getting used too for them to be given a serious try. 

Another thing is that the wine industry is so huge over here. Specialty beers just don't get a look in. From what I've experienced aside from a few select wine growing regions the US doesn't have much in the way of a wine industry.


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## chappo1970 (16/10/09)

haysie said:


> Spit it out Chappo,
> If we were weening ourselves off of megaswill, perhaps the Japs (Kirin) would go away. The yanks??? Who What beer. FFS get out of your hole and experience real beer.




Ta Haysie dats what I wanted to say! :icon_cheers:


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## Whistlingjack (16/10/09)

Can we please stay on topic?

WJ


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## clean brewer (16/10/09)

> Company spokesman Simon Bairstow stated "The owners had a vision to bring a micro-brewing and restaurant concept to Albany and had high hopes of success. However, the current economic crisis and general difficulties being experienced broadly by the hospitality industry meant the business wasn't able to recover"
> 
> Nothing to say about the poor standard of brewing?
> 
> WJ





> Can we please stay on topic?


I think we are, do you think they went broke because of the Poor Standard of Brewing or the G.F.C??

Just stating certain issues of why Business's like this are going broke.....

Also alot of Business's problems these days are the way they are run and having a Vision that is already doomed for failure before it starts, a bit of research before you invest *all *your money these days will help you go alot further, also, most business owners dont have the capital to operate under the worst circumstances for a least the 1st 3 years of Business for *Long Term* success....

Anyhow, its a shame, but im sure someone is to blame...........

:icon_cheers: CB


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## Whistlingjack (16/10/09)

clean brewer said:


> I think we are, do you think they went broke because of the Poor Standard of Brewing or the G.F.C??
> 
> Just stating certain issues of why Business's like this are going broke.....
> 
> ...



Its so easy to blame the "economic climate" for your failure. The truth is, if your product is accepted, then you will succeed.

WJ


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## /// (16/10/09)

clean brewer said:


> Anyhow, its a shame, but im sure someone is to blame...........
> 
> :icon_cheers: CB



Cannot say I know anything about the beer produced, but I think the posts you have put up indicate an idiot at hand. Do we take your posts in regards to wedding venues and such as jest? Craft Beer hard to sell, not on my experience.

Nothing worse than voyeurs with a business plan, other than an online critic with a proposed business plan ...

Scotty


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## /// (16/10/09)

clean brewer said:


> *And it all starts from your kids*, feed em shit, they will keep eating shit....... Give em Food with Colour, Flavour and Aroma and they will grow up Eating and Drinking Food/Wine/Beer with Colour, Flavour and Aroma.....



Sorry, this is the comment that has really done my head in. I ask you the one question, if you know what shit tastes like it does scare me, how do you _know this_? Make a sunday habit of it? Bit like drinking "piss". I move on ....

If I take this post at face value, I consider you wrong when it comes to anything to do with trade and professional brewing in general.

Scotty


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## kook (16/10/09)

Chappo said:


> Sad really Australia just hasn't been able toween itself of the Megaswill. I was in the state 2 years ago and it seemed like every second town had it's own brewery. It was sensational! Have a look at BABBs members Ross and Pocket beers FFS 300 craft beers in 2 weeks!
> 
> What happens when the yanks come here? 3 craft/micro breweries FFS?
> 
> ...



I'll claim Aussie ignorance here - I don't understand what you're talking about? 

What has Ross got to do with Tanglehead making poor quality beer, leading to their demise?


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## chappo1970 (16/10/09)

kook said:


> I'll claim Aussie ignorance here - I don't understand what you're talking about?
> 
> What has Ross got to do with Tanglehead making poor quality beer, leading to their demise?




I suppose my point was they were recently in the USA and had 300+ craft/micro beers without too much trouble. Could we boast the same here? Even 25 would be a push, no?


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## kook (16/10/09)

Chappo said:


> I suppose my point was they were recently in the USA and had 300+ craft/micro beers without too much trouble. Could we boast the same here? Even 25 would be a push, no?



An afternoon stroll around Fremantle would yield more than 25 locally brewed beers. Bring a car along, and you could do 50 in the day if you wanted to with a trip to the Swan Valley via Last Drop and back via Indian Ocean.

Sure, you can't do 300+ over here, but we don't have the same population. I'm incredibly impressed lately with the variety over here. It's simply astounding, hundreds of international imports, some great local micros. If the poor quality ones happen to drop off, then I'm not that concerned. It only ruins the impact for anyone tasting craft beer for the first time.

edit - I should say - you can't do 300+ _local_ beers over here. Stores like the International Beer Shop stock around that number though.


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## haysie (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> Excuse me if I say it in a less subtle way...
> 
> Can we please stay on topic? This means you!
> 
> ...



Reading your OP WJ, 

What was the topic? Done to death, move on.


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## chappo1970 (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> Nothing to say about the poor standard of brewing?
> 
> WJ



Is this the topic WJ?

Or the poor support of Craft/Micro brewing by Australia's general public?


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## hughman666 (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> Excuse me if I say it in a less subtle way...
> 
> Can we please stay on topic? This means you!
> 
> ...



WJ, it seems the only topic you want to discuss is not the closure of the brewery but the poor quality of their beer (something we have all discussed at some point and has been done to death). now that they are closed there doesnt seem much point in continually rubbishing them.

so if we cant discuss the bigger picture here (ie why small scale micros fail) maybe we should close the tanglehead bashing thread and open a new one to discuss what you will do with your new brewing qualifications to bring a good quality brewhaus to the great southern region - there appears to be a brewery up for sale after all....

:icon_cheers:


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## kook (16/10/09)

Chappo said:


> What happens when the yanks come here? 3 craft/micro breweries FFS?



I now understand what you're saying. That may be the case in QLD, but not here in WA.

Perth has over 20 when you include those in the outer suburbs and Swan Valley etc, along with more industrial operations like Gage Roads etc. Add another ~ 10 in south west WA.

At some point, a few will topple, purely due to them either not having the right model for their local market, or not producing quality product.


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## clean brewer (16/10/09)

> The truth is, if your product is accepted, then you will succeed.


Depends how many people its accepted by....  


> Cannot say I know anything about the beer produced, but I think the posts you have put up indicate an idiot at hand.


Hey ///, play fair, I never called you an Idiot... Idiot!!!!!!


> Do we take your posts in regards to wedding venues and such as jest?


Take em as you like ///, have you experience in this department????


> Craft Beer hard to sell, not on my experience.


Why are they asking for Tax Relief then?????? Just dont sell enough??


> Nothing worse than voyeurs with a business plan, other than an online critic with a proposed business plan ...


Not sure what you are on about there but obviously your Business is going great guns? Good work. :beerbang: 


> Sorry, this is the comment that has really done my head in. I ask you the one question, if you know what shit tastes like it does scare me, how do you _know this_? Make a sunday habit of it? Bit like drinking "piss". I move on ....
> 
> If I take this post at face value, I consider you wrong when it comes to anything to do with trade and professional brewing in general.
> 
> Scotty


Has your head caved in? Not sure what "done my head in" means..... Sorry, wrong words on my behalf, ive only smelt shit, not tasted it but if something smells like shit, I wont be eating it or my kids for that matter, they are used to real food the has Colour, Flavour and Aroma... 

Take it how you like, Face Value or not, but Im stating MY opinion and you wouldnt have a fooking idea what I know about Business.... Just because you know something about something or think you are good at something, doesnt mean you will be successful at that something, obviously you are.... Scotty

All :icon_offtopic: but arent we entitled to *our *opinion.... Maybe this was your Business Scotty?????

Love Friday nights......


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## chappo1970 (16/10/09)

kook said:


> I now understand what you're saying. That may be the case in QLD, but not here in WA.
> 
> Perth has over 20 when you include those in the outer suburbs and Swan Valley etc, along with more industrial operations like Gage Roads etc. Add another ~ 10 in south west WA.
> 
> At some point, a few will topple, purely due to them either not having the right model for their local market, or not producing quality product.




Yes I agree. I know how lucky you guys are in the west suffering from choice and trust me I relish the thought of 20 odd independant brewers in Qld. When your starved for comparison your judgement can be somewhat skewed we have such little choice that to lose one is a shakespearian tregedy. :icon_cheers:


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## Whistlingjack (16/10/09)

Point taken, hughman

I was referring to some posts about weddings, 300+ micros, etc and the sniping between other posters.

I replied to some relevant posts via PM.

Sure, times are bad, but the beer is a constant. Good beer always sells no matter what peripheral enhancements (restaurant, wedding function, etc) you try.

I have never denigrated their brews. But, also I have never offered my opinions either. You can see this as you like, but I am a supporter of the industry and a professional.

The comment about poorly brewed beer was an honest reference to some inherent problems. Maybe a poor choice of forum, but I feel I am amongst friends. 

Yeah, I'd love to get a brewery up here. But as I've said to others here and elsewhere, the industry can be damaged by "fly-by-night" operators and the stain is hard to remove.

WJ


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/10/09)

Truth Is the brewery got a bad name, by some accounts deserved.May be bad management and poor cash flow, who knows.The result remains. Down the shiter! AHB bulk buy! , that seems to be the way to go.Ever body chuck in $500 and we can buy the thing and make a million bucks.  WJ any idea on whats happening with the bussiness ?
GB


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## JonnyAnchovy (16/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> chuck in $500 and we can buy the thing and make a million bucks.  WJ any idea on whats happening with the bussiness ?



Why Not? we can provide a pool of venture capital, free labour, and a huge range of great recipes. Turn it into the AHB coop brewery, each take turns brewing, both for ourselves and for sale.

DO IT.


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## Whistlingjack (16/10/09)

According to the newspaper article, the owners of the White Star, who were the main investors of Tanglehead, want to negotiate with the liquidators a price for plant and stock. This with a view to continuing the brewery and restaurant.

A hiding to nothing, I would think. 

Mind you, the "White Star Hotel and Brewery" sounds great here.

WJ


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/10/09)

JonnyAnchovy said:


> Why Not? we can provide a pool of venture capital, free labour, and a huge range of great recipes. Turn it into the AHB coop brewery, each take turns brewing, both for ourselves and for sale.
> 
> DO IT.


Yes, I wasnt joking.Could actually work.Money(capital) is the first hurdle, then management.The rest comes after that.Any liquidation accountants on AHB?
AHB brewery, no I dont think so unless some one can give me a good reason for it..
A private company with share holders is the way it would need to be set up.
I am sure there is enough expertise on the site to at least get a viable plan together ?
GB


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## mika (16/10/09)

Chappo said:


> ...... I know how lucky you guys are in the west suffering from choice......



:icon_offtopic: 
I actually thought the options were better in Melbourne and possibly even Sydney as compared to WA, but that will come with the population I guess.


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## bum (16/10/09)

Oh my god. This thread is a train wreck.

So many arguments and so many people who clearly aren't reading the thing they are disagreeing with. I've never wanted to turn my back on a fight so bad in all my life.

I will say this, however:



Whistlingjack said:


> Can we please stay on topic? This means you!
> 
> Mods, can you deal?



Man up.


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## bum (16/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes, I wasnt joking.Could actually work.Money(capital) is the first hurdle, then management.The rest comes after that.Any liquidation accountants on AHB?
> AHB brewery, no I dont think so unless some one can give me a good reason for it..
> A private company with share holders is the way it would need to be set up.
> I am sure there is enough expertise on the site to at least get a viable plan together ?
> GB



Christ, I wish this conversation was happening during business hours and not at 11:30 Friday night. Could have been interesting.


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## peas_and_corn (16/10/09)

OK, I have a few questions.

1- Who here has tried their beers?
2- What range did they have?
3- Were they good?
4- What was their business model?
5- What sort of people live in Albany? ie is it a mining town, office district etc


Just need some basic info to really know what is going down in Albany.


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## JonnyAnchovy (16/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes, I wasnt joking.Could actually work.Money(capital) is the first hurdle, then management.The rest comes after that.Any liquidation accountants on AHB?
> AHB brewery, no I dont think so unless some one can give me a good reason for it..
> A private company with share holders is the way it would need to be set up.
> I am sure there is enough expertise on the site to at least get a viable plan together ?
> GB



I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has thought about this very same thing before. Since most of us are amateurs we all have a huge range of skills from our other jobs/lives which could all be applicable.


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## JonnyAnchovy (16/10/09)

bum said:


> Christ, I wish this conversation was happening during business hours and not at 11:30 Friday night. Could have been interesting.



Agreed. Lets discuss it again tomorrow in a less cancerous thread?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> According to the newspaper article, the owners of the White Star, who were the main investors of Tanglehead, want to negotiate with the liquidators a price for plant and stock. This with a view to continuing the brewery and restaurant.
> 
> A hiding to nothing, I would think.
> 
> WJ


Would be nice to know who the secured creditors are ? A major bank is my guess.A liquidating accountancy company is going to charge the earth per hour and strip the company of any of its capital worth.These situations are difficult and take fore ever to see the end of the tunnel or to work out who's shafting who.
GB


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## Doogiechap (16/10/09)

I was there a couple of weeks ago and found most of the beers to be 'OK' but certainly not bad. The IPA was an exception which was extremely tasty. :icon_drunk: 
Hopefully the silver lining in this cloud will be if the plant is purchased and retained locally with perhaps a different brewing and marketing direction that will capture both the local and tourist audience like in Warrnambool (similar demographic) where Gerard established a good foundation for The Flying Horse.


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## clean brewer (16/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Truth Is the brewery got a bad name, by some accounts deserved.May be bad management and poor cash flow, who knows.The result remains. Down the shiter! AHB bulk buy! , that seems to be the way to go.Ever body chuck in $500 and we can buy the thing and make a million bucks.  WJ any idea on whats happening with the bussiness ?
> GB



Well said GB..  


:icon_offtopic: 
I wasnt stating what people should do within their business just what my personal experiences are, I think that Business owners/managers/operators really need to think outside the square these days in business to be able to succeed... Maybe do/focus on something different/unique from the norm and enhance their original idea.... Restaurants are everywhere now and they are all struggling to make a buck due to their massive overheads/wages/costs etc....

We struggled for 3 years trying and sticking to a vision(and also not having a Liquor Licence), it is now paying off in the Wedding Market and also opening for Breakfast, Lunches and Morning & Afternoon Teas(all these being much more affordable for Customers these days than Dinner), but we had to stay open for Dinner for a period of time to establish ourself as a Restaurant that offered great food and service... And yes, probably at least 1/2 million $$ has been put into the place to keep it afloat to get it to the stage where it is supporting itself....

As its been said, its done and dusted now and yes there are too many fly-by nighters with a few $$ and no idea.. Not saying this is what happened.....

:beer: CB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/10/09)

Doogiechap said:


> I was there a couple of weeks ago and found most of the beers to be 'OK' but certainly not bad. The IPA was an exception which was extremely tasty. :icon_drunk:


If its not "I must go there for the beer situation" given its location then its a hard business to develop a marketing plan for.As they have found out.I doubt its a global down turn that has caused its demise . as we know we dont have a global demise here in WA.
GB


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## clean brewer (16/10/09)

> investors


First problem, "investors" want a return, Straight away.... Thats why they invest.. Generally....... :huh: 


> Money(capital) is the first hurdle


Yes, 1st.


> then management


Yes, 2nd.


> The rest comes after that


Yes...


> I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has thought about this very same thing before. Since most of us are amateurs we all have a huge range of skills from our other jobs/lives which could all be applicable


Very true, and would save alot of $$$, and a return eventually for our time....  


> A liquidating accountancy company is going to charge the earth per hour and strip the company of any of its capital worth.These situations are difficult and take fore ever to see the end of the tunnel or to work out who's shafting who.


Yes, the Liquidating Accountancy Firm is the 1st to get their money before anyone, otherwise they wouldnt do it.... Thats why it ends up Creditors only getting $0.01 in the dollar, the Liquidators have taken the rest... :angry: 

Cheers
:beer: CB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> According to the newspaper article, the owners of the White Star, who were the main investors of Tanglehead, want to negotiate with the liquidators a price for plant and stock. This with a view to continuing the brewery and restaurant.
> 
> A hiding to nothing, I would think.
> 
> ...


WJ do you know who's the liquidation company ? Im out of AU till the 29th October, but these things dont move quick any way.
GB


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## clean brewer (17/10/09)

After a little research, maybe this place had too much on its plate instead of concentration on the Main Idea(what was it?) :unsure: 

From what I see they were a

Micro-Brewery
Cafe
Child minding centre
Licenced Restaurant
This would take alot of $$$ to keep runnings....

:icon_chickcheers: CB

What were they again???


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## mwd (17/10/09)

In my experience as a common or garden consumer most of these trendy micros produce a product aimed at the average market and charge a premium price and seem surprised by the lack of repeat custom.

BTW I am willing to chuck in $500.00 to a AHB Co-Op at least we may get good beer.

Neil Morrissey's and Richard Fox's pub in Marton-cum-Grafton was the classic example of how NOT to do it and piss off everybody you are trying to attract to frequent the pub on a regular basis.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (17/10/09)

Not meaning to be mean but AHB is a business and not a" not for profit situation" it makes a profit and holds a ABN like any well run business should.But to run a business based on AHB.com is not the way to go. It needs to be independent and self sufficient, but can include members of AHB.Im sure Dane would agree.
GB


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## clean brewer (17/10/09)

Tropical_Brews said:


> In my experience as a common or garden consumer most of these trendy micros produce a product aimed at the average market and charge a premium price and seem surprised by the lack of repeat custom.
> 
> BTW I am willing to chuck in $500.00 to a AHB Co-Op at least we may get good beer.
> 
> Neil Morrissey's and Richard Fox's pub in Marton-cum-Grafton was the classic example of how NOT to do it and piss off everybody you are trying to attract to frequent the pub on a regular basis.



:beerbang: :beerbang: Love it :beerbang: :beerbang:


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## bum (17/10/09)

Spaces.

Just saying...


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## scoundrel (17/10/09)

clean brewer said:


> Craft Breweries are like good Food mate, very hard to do and sell  .....
> 
> Megaswill and Shit Food.... Big Winner... Unfortunately... :angry:
> 
> ...




well CB you just hit the nail on the friggin head. 

Show you kids good food doesn't come with a toy and your onto a winner, do it long enough and they'll do it for their kids and so on, but some fat cat would rather feed your kids lips and arseholes to make a squillion bucks to pay for another Bentley or an another 6 year old asian boy than worry about the detrimental effects that their products are causing today youth. 

Multinational corporations should be fucked and burned.


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## kook (17/10/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> OK, I have a few questions.
> 
> 1- Who here has tried their beers?
> 2- What range did they have?
> ...



1. I've only tried one first hand, but spoken with many others who have visited the establishment.
2. This was a Pilsner on tap at Clancy's in Applecross.
3. The beer I tried had multiple problems, excessive haze and diacetyl being the main ones.
4. Not sure, but from the accounts I heard they sold more VB than their own beer, and were not open to discussion about the beers themselves.
5. It's a rural "outpost" - part farming town, part tourist town, part transit town for trucks heading from the southwest to Adelaide. It would be a great spot for a brewery if it was done right. Most people driving from Adelaide to Perth stop off there.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (17/10/09)

Lets see what happens tomorrow or the next day.Keep me in the loop (PM) while Im away . I do have cousin that's a specialist liquidation accountant but he works out of Singapore.It may be a good time to start a new thread for this idea ?
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (17/10/09)

kook said:


> 1. I've only tried one first hand, but spoken with many others who have visited the establishment.
> 2. This was a Pilsner on tap at Clancy's in Applecross.
> 3. The beer I tried had multiple problems, excessive haze and diacetyl being the main ones.
> 4. Not sure, but from the accounts I heard they sold more VB than their own beer, and were not open to discussion about the beers themselves.
> 5. It's a rural "outpost" - part farming town, part tourist town, part transit town for trucks heading from the southwest to Adelaide. It would be a great spot for a brewery if it was done right. Most people driving from Adelaide to Perth stop off there.


: Quote Kook "It's a rural "outpost" - part farming town, part tourist town, part transit town for trucks heading from the southwest to Adelaide. It would be a great spot for a brewery if it was done right. Most people driving from Adelaide to Perth stop off there."

Cant say I agree with that statement , Its a country mile off the Adelaide route but it is a big tourist destination for local WA folk and internationals.I first though of a micro there back in 2002, to me its a prime place.It has a possibility of being the next big WA beer attraction area if done properly.Lambics by the sea ? :icon_drool2: 
GB


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## bum (17/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Lambics by the sea ? :icon_drool2:



I love this lambic get rich-quick scheme. People love lambics.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (17/10/09)

bum said:


> I love this lambic get rich-quick scheme. People love lambics.


Yes people love lambics, :icon_vomit: well Kook does ! If he spends $1,000,000 a year then the brewery is a goer.
GB


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## rude (17/10/09)

Have to agree there, its not on the Adelaide Perth route its further west from the horses arse turnoff (Norsman) sorry for the rhyme but thats what my mate calls it & his not far wrong there.

It is a picturesque town (havent been there for ages) but have sailed down there surfed & fished

A lot of retired people used to live there but I believe a lot of bed & breakfast places there now

Lots of tourist attractions the Gap, Salmon Holes, Mount Clarance just to name a few Denmark is close by too

The main town overlooks Princes Harbour & a pub is just ideal there.

Bit too cold & wet for my liking these days WA's answer to Melbourne

Anyway Ive got no Idea about buisness or about brewing really but slowly educating myself 

:icon_offtopic: Bit of topic here but cant wait to try a beer at Blacksalt Portbeach brewery Dunkleweisen straight up. Bit slow of the mark trying one but have to save up for a beer these days $9 a pint kills me but thats just me

cheers all chill out


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## winkle (17/10/09)

> Bit too cold & wet for my liking these days WA's answer to Melbourne



There's the problem  .
Sorry, it's nice but a bit quiet and seasonal.


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## /// (17/10/09)

Take em as you like ///, have you experience in this department????

Why are they asking for Tax Relief then?????? Just dont sell enough??

Well yes I do. I started brewing last year at a venue that sold 4 kegs of beer a week and half a pallet of bottles. With 2 of us working hard on fixing the beer problem, without major change to the running of the front bar those sales are now beyond 20 kegs a week. 

Tax relief is a separate issue, and not one that is on topic or pertinent. These guys may have built the taj mahal and folks have not come. But the idea of 'feed them cake' is repulsive and says little in the respect for customers and their intelligence. Folks may not be beer nerds and have nothing more than a scant brand knowledge, but they sure know if they like the taste of a beer. And infected, VDK riddled beer as my experience show does not sell.

Scotty


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## Bribie G (17/10/09)

I've had some nice JS beers at the Sydney Brewpub which the lumpen masses would regard as craft beer (i.e. not Carlton Mid) and I've had some very acceptable bottled beers such as LCPA. However my experience of Queensland so called craft beers, so far, has been:

They have to be orange, cloudy and served at minus 2 degrees in a silly dimple glass
They have to have stupid names like Scotsman's wrinkled Willie or similar

I'm just going on some dregs I was served at the Regatta Hotel - I don't think they brew any more - and at the late Brew House. I haven't got out to the Sunny Coast brewery yet or down to MT so I'm probably unlucky with my experiences so far. However as Chappo points out it's rather pathetic that there is not one micro left in a metro area which is somewhat bigger and more populous than Perth.
You know what I would like to see? An inner city pub where you can get a properly made local pilsener or an Aussie Standard lager made the way it is supposed to be, not VB style, and enjoy in civilised surroundings and not out of a dimple handle glass in a barn of a place that looks like a tacky 60's bingo hall - like the BrewHouse was. 

The Platform bar goes some way to fulfilling that, it's an oasis, but a few more pubs selling superior quality products that are recognisable to the drinking population in general then I think it would take off. Sure there is a place for doppelAltPoodleHefe brews and Old C*nt treacle tripple hopped Rumanian Porter but you are not going to swing the majority of piss-drinkers with those sorts of beers. Although not Craft brew, in the 80s Bernie Power and Eumundi Brewery launched into the market with a superior mainstream selection which gave the big 2 a huge fright. Powers in particular was a malty well hopped beer, Powers Red even more so and they brought out a Vienna Red that was miles ahead of any Carlton or XXXX beer of the time. The big 2 bought them out of course but it shows that the megaswill drinkers will embrace a quality product. Then you can get stuck into them with the HefePoodleWeizenDunkel stuff.

I'm off topic here entirely of course because I've never been to Albany.

Edit: good example of a divine beer that is craft/mainstream 'crossover' is St Peters Blonde served right alongside VB and Tooheys in the pubs around Newtown and Camperdown. I'd kill for a few pints of something like that in Brissie.


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## thirstycritter (17/10/09)

BribieG said:


> You know what I would like to see? An inner city pub where you can get a properly made local pilsener or an Aussie Standard lager made the way it is supposed to be, not VB style, and enjoy in civilised surroundings and not out of a dimple handle glass in a barn of a place that looks like a tacky 60's bingo hall - like the BrewHouse was.



Have you been to the International Hotel in Spring Hill mate? It's got four brews on tap, including a pilsner I believe. They're nothing to write home about, but it's a microbrewery nonetheless.

I agree that it's sad that Brisbane hasn't got more microbreweries close to the CBD, but we're exceptionally lucky to have MT, Eagle Heights, Burleigh & Sunshine Coast just down the road, because IMO they're right up there with the best Oz has to offer...

I also thank my lucky stars that we've got the Platform Bar and people like Matt Kirkegaard, Ian Watson and Matt Coorey waving the flag for beer in Brisbane... things could be much worse.


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## Bribie G (17/10/09)

Hi Pete, funny you should mention the International Hotel, immediately after posting the above I was alerted to that pub on another thread .. yes and they have a Pilsener. :icon_cheers: I'll have to pop into the City for a promotion interview during the week, my return home on the train may be delayed a little :icon_drunk: 
I'll check Google Maps and see which Station is closest, I guess Roma Street?


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## winkle (17/10/09)

BribieG said:


> Hi Pete, funny you should mention the International Hotel, immediately after posting the above I was alerted to that pub on another thread .. yes and they have a Pilsener. :icon_cheers: I'll have to pop into the City for a promotion interview during the week, my return home on the train may be delayed a little :icon_drunk:
> I'll check Google Maps and see which Station is closest, I guess Roma Street?



A nice up-hill walk for you mate  .
Don't get your expectations too high, pick of the litter is usually the Irish Red, the Pils is very hit or miss depending on the batch. That said, the pints are pretty cheap :icon_cheers: .


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## skippy (17/10/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> OK, I have a few questions.
> 
> 
> 5- What sort of people live in Albany? ie is it a mining town, office district etc
> ...


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## peas_and_corn (17/10/09)

skippy said:


> peas_and_corn said:
> 
> 
> > OK, I have a few questions.
> ...



No


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## skippy (17/10/09)

google it - it has Burt Reynolds in it


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## Bribie G (17/10/09)

Albanians?


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## pbrosnan (17/10/09)

I'd say the standard of the brewing had something to do with it but it was always going to be a risky proposition starting a brewpub in Albany. It's a pity but we just have to face the fact that with a small, scattered population we are going to have a much smaller craft brewing industry. The US is the place to go ATM for beer diversity IMHO, I'd go back tomorrow for the beer and for the huge range of things to do.
BTW Tanglehead was in the White Star wasn't it? Is the pub still going? What beers are on tap there now?


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## pbrosnan (17/10/09)

Whistlingjack said:


> a professional.



I'm curious WJ, are you doing the professional brewing in Albany?


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## pbrosnan (17/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes, I wasnt joking.Could actually work.Money(capital) is the first hurdle, then management.The rest comes after that.Any liquidation accountants on AHB?
> AHB brewery, no I dont think so unless some one can give me a good reason for it..
> A private company with share holders is the way it would need to be set up.
> I am sure there is enough expertise on the site to at least get a viable plan together ?
> GB


 Bad idea to have AHB members running the place. There'd be blood on the floor in no time, just look at the snark on this thread.


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## pbrosnan (17/10/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> : Quote Kook "It's a rural "outpost" - part farming town, part tourist town, part transit town for trucks heading from the southwest to Adelaide. It would be a great spot for a brewery if it was done right. Most people driving from Adelaide to Perth stop off there."
> 
> Its a country mile off the Adelaide route but it is a big tourist destination for local WA folk and internationals



I don't think relying on the tourist trade is going to work. You'd need to attract the locals in consistently sufficient numbers to make it a goer. Albany is too far from Perth for most people. Perthites generally think that the state stops at Margaret River hence they've been able to get a few micros going there. Also MR is heavily promoted locally, nationally and internationally as a tourist destination. In WA visitors are expected to head either to Broome or MR, once they have sampled the heady delights of Perth of course 
It could be that the Albany is a better venue as it's located in the center of York Street. And the Earl always does well, take that over and you're on winner. Maybe the White Star still suffers from it's ancient reputation amongst the locals.


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## pbrosnan (17/10/09)

skippy said:


> ever seen the movie Deliverance?



There you go, that's a fairly typical Perth resident response. They don't get out much around here.


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## RobB (17/10/09)

If Captain Stirling had thought it out properly, Albany would have been the capital of WA. Milder climate, closer to the best farm land and a natural harbour that shits all over Fremantle.

Perhaps it was pride that stopped him because the French were there first!

It's a nice place that gets a few tourists, but three hours to Margaret River is more attractive to travellers than five hours to Albany. If people do want to go that far south, they'll generally opt for the more touristy towns like Denmark. Being the 'capital' of the Great Southern is perhaps why it doesn't attract more tourists; it actually has to be a functioning centre of trade and commerce and not just line its streets with craft shops and ice cream boutiques. Knowing only a little about Albany and even less about running a business, I don't know if Tanglehead could have been sustained by its local population alone. Perhaps if we got the whaling industry up and running again............


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## pbrosnan (18/10/09)

Malty Cultural said:


> If Captain Stirling had thought it out properly, Albany would have been the capital of WA. Milder climate, closer to the best farm land and a natural harbour that shits all over Fremantle.
> 
> Perhaps it was pride that stopped him because the French were there first!
> 
> It's a nice place that gets a few tourists, but three hours to Margaret River is more attractive to travellers than five hours to Albany. If people do want to go that far south, they'll generally opt for the more touristy towns like Denmark. Being the 'capital' of the Great Southern is perhaps why it doesn't attract more tourists; it actually has to be a functioning centre of trade and commerce and not just line its streets with craft shops and ice cream boutiques. Knowing only a little about Albany and even less about running a business, I don't know if Tanglehead could have been sustained by its local population alone. Perhaps if we got the whaling industry up and running again............


All good points MC. On the face of it Albany seems a natural for a brewpub/micro because of the perceived tourism through put. But this as actually seasonal and thinner then people assume. When I was there a lot of the tourists were really well off cockys who had a holiday home at Emu Point or the like. Buses would come through carrying old pensioners from SA or NSW who were on their grand tour but you'd be lucky to see ten of them a week and they didn't stay long. It has changed for the better but it's still off the beaten track for most Western Australians let alone the pressed-for-time interstate or international traveler. Local support for locally brewed beer is essential to making it work in Albany.


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## hughman666 (23/2/10)

clean brewer said:


> Put a Wedding Reception Venue together with A Micro-Brewery and you have a winner...



Snap. I was in Denmark last weekend and stopped by the new Denmark Brewing Company. it's 5 minutes drive out of town toward the wineries. they have a function centre, restaurant and also the brewery/bar. apparently everything except the brewery has been there for the past 7-8 years and the brewery's first beers were on tap australia day this year.




*beer*

5 brews on tap:

amber ale - generic, moderately hopped, british tasting amber ale. weighing in at around 5% it's a pleasant drop.
irish red - smooth and creamy red ale in the kilkenny style. again, this was around the 5% mark from memory, very nice indeed.
bitter - lager-styled bitter, 3.5%. had a sample taster and was ok, nothing fantastic though. good one for the skipper.
stout - didn't try it so can't comment.
cider - wife had this one, said it was fairly crisp and not sickly sweet. sub 5% strength from memory.




*food*

you know how a lot of micros have nice beers and reasonable food. i would say that DBC is the other way around. whilst the beers are reasonable, the food is fantastic.
not much of the typical steak sandwich, chicken burger, pizzas etc. these guys are more restaurant quality with dishes like vietnamese chicken salad, chicken balti, aged steaks etc.
the highlight of the visit was the food.

*ambience*

seating is either, formal table & chairs indoor, alfresco outdoor, beer garden, or couches inside by the fire, all showing off the fantastic view.
great atmosphere, kid friendly (playground outside), fantastic views. very pleasant all round...


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## Pete2501 (23/2/10)

Nice. I'll have to check that one out next time I'm done there.


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## mjfs (27/7/10)

Hey.... I stopped off at this place on monday while i was in Albany, its about 5-10mins west of Denmark. Great Views. Me and my partner were the only ones there when it opened. They had a few beers and a cider on tap. 

I tried the red ale and the stout, both great beers. I really enjoyed the stout, it was creamy, smooth, lots of chocolate and a hint of coffee at 5%(at least i think so, managed to pick a cold while down there so the taste buds could be deceiving me). The food was great, highly recommend the lamb pie yum!!!

I spoke the brewer, he was the one serving us, he said he was hoping to move the brewery onto the premises by the end of the year. Will definitely be visiting this place again, glad the other half has family down that way. 


Also went to the whitestar in Albany, they still had tanglehead beers on tap so im not sure what the deal is there. Also tried a Albany Ale Works pale ale at the earl of spencer, not a bad drop, i couldn't find out much about the brewer though.


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## mika (27/7/10)

I thought Albany Aleworks was WhistlingJack from this forum ? Unless I'm getting my wires crossed, haven't heard from him in a while. If it is WJ, it was my understanding he's got a license as a production brewery only, thus not allowed to flog his own beers, hence why you'll only find them at the pubs.


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## drew9242 (28/7/10)

mika= Yea i think you got your wires crossed. The brewer is not WJ. I'm not 100% sure about the liscence, but he does lurk around on the forum, so he might be able to clear it up for you.

mjfs= Ohh and tangleheads is still brewering beer for the white star. The brewrey stayed there and they change the name of the pub. All the beer producing licenses were under tangleheads name, so i guess it was easier to keep it under that name.


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## Shed101 (28/7/10)

Drew9242 said:


> mika= Yea i think you got your wires crossed. The brewer is not WJ. I'm not 100% sure about the liscence, but he does lurk around on the forum, so he might be able to clear it up for you.
> 
> mjfs= Ohh and tangleheads is still brewering beer for the white star. The brewrey stayed there and they change the name of the pub. All the beer producing licenses were under tangleheads name, so i guess it was easier to keep it under that name.




I thought White Star was an old name from a ship or something? Has been the name of the place for a long time by the looks of it...

I was there at the back end of 2009 and they had a decent enough IPA (I think) on ... well whatever it was it was enough to drive back to where we were staying and walk 5kms into town to just check 5 or 6 times that it was actually good  

Hops 'growing' in the beer garden and plenty of locals there on a sunny Friday afternoon and decent enough live music in the evening.

On the saturday we went to a pretty good little farmers market. Albany came across as a nice place.

It's inevitable that in a relatively isolated location like Albany there will be compromises is you're going to sell enough beer to stay open.

So presumably somebody took the White Star and Tanglewood on :blink: Good on them. Even if the beer isn't absolutely first class, I never ever drink in pubs that sell ordinary beers ... would rather have a bad pint of microwbrewed beer for the 'experience' than an ordinary pint of fizzy golden froth.


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## drew9242 (28/7/10)

Shed101 said:


> I thought White Star was an old name from a ship or something? Has been the name of the place for a long time by the looks of it...
> 
> I was there at the back end of 2009 and they had a decent enough IPA (I think) on ... well whatever it was it was enough to drive back to where we were staying and walk 5kms into town to just check 5 or 6 times that it was actually good
> 
> ...



The owner of the building used to run the white star before leasing it to tangleheads as pub and brewery. Then tangleheads went broke and the lease holder got the gear and lisence, and now calls the pub the white star and the brewery tangleheads. I'm pretty sure that's the way it was.

Good to hear you enjoyed your stay here. It is a great place to live, but shhh don't tell to many people.


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## RobB (27/1/13)

Finally made it back to Albany after three decades and I had a couple of Tanglehead's beers last night.

Both the kristalweizen and oatmeal stout were very good. Their pilsner is the beer which has attracted the most criticism, but this had blown dry, so someone must be enjoying it! The White Star appears to be a James Squire pub, so maybe they have been able to inject some experience to iron out the kinks.


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