# 2016 VIC Xmas in July Swap/Brew- Recipe



## MartinOC (25/3/16)

Let's try this again......

*Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our Victorian dead.*

*Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest Victorians.*

*Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to brew. And you, good yeomen,
Whose limbs were made in Victoria, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your brewing; which I doubt not;*

*I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Beer, Victoria, and Saint George!'*

OK, let's get the style & recipe suggestions going here so we've got a few months to sort-out requirements.

As a start, I'm going to suggest something that uses a swag of TF Pearl as the base (Now....If ONLY we could find a cheap source of the stuff right now.....Any ideas? B) ).


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## technobabble66 (25/3/16)

Yep, go the Pearl!!
And definitely go for something UK. 


ESB, i reckon. An OSH clone!
Or a Celtic Red.

How about an UK-style IPA? ... You know it's gonna kill Yob to do an IPA without using kilos of New World hops h34r: :lol:

Actually, it's been a while since we cranked out a stout. Or we could try a Porter.


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## AJ80 (26/3/16)

I'd be down with an ESB and an Old Speckled Hen clone sounds good. Porter would also be nice, but really am happy to go with the flow.


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## n87 (26/3/16)

Mind if you put a VIC in the title?


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## Yob (26/3/16)

Will be stout season right? How's about a stout?

American stout? Best of both worlds..


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## manticle (26/3/16)

n87 said:


> Mind if you put a VIC in the title?


Done


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## mofox1 (26/3/16)

English IPA? Damn's EIPA from the july swap 2yrs ago was a cracker. Challenger IPA?

Don't think I saw a recipe posted, might have to harass the good brewer.


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## MartinOC (26/3/16)

n87 said:


> Mind if you put a VIC in the title?


Oops!



Yob said:


> Will be stout season right? How's about a stout?
> 
> American stout? Best of both worlds..


Stout I'd definitely be up-for. Adulterating a perfectly good stout with all those nasty, dirty, smelly, woefully fruity-stinking-Seppo hops would be a waste of their attributes. Bittering only IMHO.

Got a few Kg ya wanna get rid-of eh, Yob?

Hang-on! Let's add OATS & Flaked Barley & Raw Barley &....&......I'll go to bed early & leave the rest of you to sparge into the wee-smalls....



manticle said:


> Done


Ta everso Mants... :blush:



mofox1 said:


> English IPA? Damn's EIPA from the july swap 2yrs ago was a cracker. Challenger IPA?
> 
> Don't think I saw a recipe posted, might have to harass the good brewer.


Damn fine (Pardon the pun) idea! 

Your mission (should you choose to accept it - & you WILL, because you suggested it in the 1st-place  ) is to harass said-brewer to lead the charge for this one.

I reckon keep it nice & simple, so we can concentrate on eating a shitload of food (NO ******* SALADS!), drinking beer & keeping warm (I'll bring the brazier if Wayne doesn't have a dedicated fire-pit available).


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## Yob (26/3/16)

Not at all, I have a barrel full of stout but Im a firm believer in variety.. RIS, dry stout, FES, American, 

I'd love to have 5 types of stout available


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## MastersBrewery (26/3/16)

Big Belgian strong


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## MartinOC (26/3/16)

I'd love to have a Foreign-Extra for a bit of winter fireside drinkie-poos sipping, as long as it's not TOO big (ie. about 6-7%). But it's not about me, but the collective.

Dunno why these things seem to want to get bigger & bigger with each iteration?


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## MartinOC (26/3/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Big Belgian strong


QED.


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## technobabble66 (26/3/16)

Do a basic dark grist, to be convertible to stout or Belgian dark strong. Would that be doable?
Say Pearl with biscuit/Amber, med Crystal, spec B, choc and/or RB. Fuggles and EKG (& warrior) at FWH. Other hops in cube per Brewers choice. 
Could even brew to normal gravity, and the brewer can crank it with Candi syrup or dme/lme as desired. 

Still a fan of ESB or EIPA, but I'd also be happy with a stout or (dark) Belgian strong.


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## technobabble66 (26/3/16)

Can't do an oats grist without manticle. It's against the rules. And who else will spend 4hrs elbow deep in the mashtun?? 
Also, I'm pretty sure Yob will boycott if we use oats. He was scarred from the last attempt.


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## TheWiggman (26/3/16)

I've been watching the other thread anxiously just waiting for someone to pull out... argh!!!!!!!!! Can't stand being on the bench! And holy shit I love stout!
Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GrumpyPaul (26/3/16)

+1 for the ESB or Damns EIPA

With all these beer styles surely we have more options than to have to do a stout again?

But then my vote probably shouldnt count because I have a tendency to pull out at the last minute.


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## TheWiggman (26/3/16)

You teasing or what?


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## technobabble66 (26/3/16)

Alrighty. ESB or EIPA it is then. 

So that's 4 bags o'Pearl.
Yeah?

Who's hosting this shenanigans? Does Wayne have an opinion in this??

... FWIW, he has a pretty awesome Celtic Red recipe. h34r:


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## technobabble66 (26/3/16)

TheWiggman said:


> You teasing or what?


Yep. GP is a Swap Tease.


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## GrumpyPaul (26/3/16)

Id like say I promise to pull out at the last minute...but sometimes it just feels too good.


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## technobabble66 (26/3/16)

... and you come anyway?

h34r:


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## MastersBrewery (27/3/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Can't do an oats grist without manticle. It's against the rules. And who else will spend 4hrs elbow deep in the mashtun??
> Also, I'm pretty sure Yob will boycott if we use oats. He was scarred from the last attempt.


elbow deep? Your confusing the hop addition with the mash tun surely!


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## Grainer (27/3/16)

Cheap Grain.. ?? English Barleywine .. hehe.. are you up for the challenge?

It's gotta be english style tho given the bready grain..

Or Go an Imperial Red Ale.... Admiral Ekbar!! best beer ..no amazing beer


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## DJ_L3ThAL (27/3/16)

Love a foreign extra, but equally as happy with an EIPA or other English variety. Would a Hobgoblin style suit the Pearl well? Probably too light a beer given the suggestions above.

Can I at least bring one avocado?


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## technobabble66 (27/3/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> elbow deep? Your confusing the hop addition with the mash tun surely!


2013 Xmas in July Case Swap at breakbeer's place. Did a stout with oats. We cracked all the grain, poured into Yob's new huge (at the time) mash tun and discovered it was going to be too small. So we quickly made use of breakbeer's & micbrew's(?) mash tuns. Realised shortly after mashing in, the oats had all gone into Yob's mash tun. Hilarity ensured as manticle spent the next 4 hrs elbow deep in the mashtun perched up on a bench trying to unstick the mash to ramp and mashout. 
That was the last case swap we saw manticle at, strangely enough.
And oats have never been used since.


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## MartinOC (27/3/16)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Can I at least bring one avocado?


Sure! What you do with it is open to speculaion.... :unsure:



technobabble66 said:


> 2013 Xmas in July Case Swap at breakbeer's place. Did a stout with oats. We cracked all the grain, poured into Yob's new huge (at the time) mash tun and discovered it was going to be too small. So we quickly made use of breakbeer's & micbrew's(?) mash tuns. Realised shortly after mashing in, the oats had all gone into Yob's mash tun. Hilarity ensured as manticle spent the next 4 hrs elbow deep in the mashtun perched up on a bench trying to unstick the mash to ramp and mashout.
> That was the last case swap we saw manticle at, strangely enough.
> And oats have never been used since.


Man, I wish I was there to take photo's.


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## Yob (27/3/16)

I wish whoever added the oats got a big boot right in the nadgers


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## technobabble66 (27/3/16)

Mants might share that sentiment. [emoji57]


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## MartinOC (27/3/16)

OK, so simple & dirty - Pearl + 5% light Crystal. ~40 IBU's?

Where's Wayne when you need him??


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## technobabble66 (28/3/16)

Yep, go with that ^^, plus 2% Amber or CaraRed (from Bribie's recipe)
Challenger in the boil. EKG in the cube.

... and Mosaic & 007 in Yob's cube h34r:


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## Whiteferret (29/3/16)

I'm easy about the recipe.

Here's my Red Ale

44L into cubes

8.00 kg Marris Otter 87.9%

1.00 kg Cararoma 11.0%

0.10 kg Roasted Barley 1.1%


60 g Fuggles 4.0% 60 min

30 g Kent Goldings 5.1% 15 min

10g calcium chloride in strike water

wyeast 1728


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## Yob (29/3/16)

please scale to 800L



on a serious note, had Adam confirmed? whats the equipment looking like?


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## Grainer (29/3/16)

I think an admiral Ekbar clone.. imperial red ale. Friken amazing drink


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## Whiteferret (29/3/16)

Yob said:


> I wish whoever added the oats got a big boot right in the nadgers


Careful what you wish for.
I don't know who filled the drum but here's who poured it in.


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## Yob (29/3/16)

Im sticking to


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## manticle (29/3/16)

Yob said:


> I wish whoever added the oats got a big boot right in the nadgers


I'm a futsal keeper so blows to nadgers are regular and frequent.


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## technobabble66 (30/3/16)

whiteferret said:


> Careful what you wish for.
> I don't know who filled the drum but here's who poured it in.


Bwahahaha

To be fair, I think it went something like, halfway through pouring the grain into Yob's spiffy new mashtun, several of you/us collectively realized: "crap, we're not gonna be able to fit it all in. What are we gonna do? Does anyone else have gear here? Ok, Glen, let's put some into yours, and we'll have a bit more left over, so we'll squeeze the rest into Mick's BIAB setup"

2 hrs later, the error of the collective on-the-fly decision became apparent...

It was my first case swap, so I claim noob status of zero responsibility [emoji106]

Mind you, realizing *after* we'd milled all the grain ("Wow, that grain milled through really fast!") that the mill rollers hadn't been set close enough to actually crack the grain should've been a warning sign for the rest of the day to double check everything to ensure no further visits by Mr Cockup. 

On the bright side, that experience seemed to be the catalyst for Jesse, Wayne, etc to be super organized from then on at these case swap brews [emoji6]


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## manticle (30/3/16)

Couple of people suggested milling that fast was not great.
Someone, maybe Je.... I mean I have no idea, said it should be fine cos that's what they do all the time. I grind by hand so I was never weighing in on that conversation.

We need baldric to tell mr cockup that on no uncertain terms are we home.

Case swaps do sound more elegantly organised since I stopped attending.


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## MartinOC (30/3/16)

Yob said:


> please scale to 800L
> 
> 
> 
> on a serious note, had Adam confirmed? whats the equipment looking like?


Adam started another swap thread (which soon took-over the one I started in July last year) & was down as a swapper & cubist, so I assume he's in.

He's not involved in the BB as he's apparently taking a sabbatical, but would be in for the swap brew.

I'm just thinking about sourcing the grains from the BB before it closes, so we'll need to confirm a recipe (I was thinking the Pearl 'cos it's going to be cheaper all-round) & I can take slots on the listing for this brew & store it.


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## Yob (30/3/16)

manticle said:


> Couple of people suggested milling that fast was not great.
> Someone, maybe Je.... I mean I have no idea, said it should be fine cos that's what they do all the time. I grind by hand so I was never weighing in on that conversation.
> We need baldric to tell mr cockup that we are, on no uncertain terms, home.
> Case swaps do sound more elegantly organised since I stopped attending.


I recall not these details... 

I think I still had my old marga mill at that point so what would I have known about proper milling?


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## technobabble66 (30/3/16)

What's the size of the brew gonna be? 800L?
What sort of efficiency do we normally calculate for with these gigs?

If it's 800L, we might need in the vicinity of 6 sacks of pearl if it's ~75% eff. So I'd be sure that any recipe we're gonna look at would chew through at least 125kg of base malt (i.e.: we could pencil in 5 sacks o'Pearl right now, and add extra as we finalise the recipe).

Any consensus on style yet? ... ESB or Red (imperial)?

I'd vote for ESB (just because i already do Reds regularly).


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## micbrew (30/3/16)

I wouldn't mind an American Double ipa ... along the lines of Holgate hopinator :chug:

Something to savour in the winter months


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## MartinOC (30/3/16)

5 x Pearl reserved.


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## GrumpyPaul (30/3/16)

_Is there such a thing as an Imperial ESB?_

_Or even better an Imperial Red Irish ESB?_

_and why am I speaking in italics???_


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## technobabble66 (30/3/16)

it's 'cause of your posh accent, GP.
h34r: :lol:


I'd be tempted with an Imperial ESB or Celtic Red - is that just delving into IPA or wee heavy/Old ale territory, though?


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## MartinOC (15/4/16)

Due to a pull-out by one of the Pearl's major buyers, we now have extra bags available.

I can buy-up the extra bags as my alter-ego for a good price .

I have a cunning plan......

I propose that we just buy-up the extras & do a SINGLE MALT Barley Wine/Parti-Gyle double-boil "Ordinary": That should mean everyone gets 2 cubes from the brew & do whatever they want with it. 

Assume about 10-13% utilisation from the first boil into the second & adjust from there.

I can feel Yob's thumb quivering as I type......


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## Curly79 (15/4/16)

I have no idea what a Parti-Gyle double boil Ordinary is, but count me in!


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## MartinOC (15/4/16)

In basic terms:

1. SHITLOADS of malt goes into the MLT.

2. Mash & run-off to 1060-ish.

3. Boil with hops. Result: ******* HUGE beer!!

4. Meantime, re-fill/re-sparge the remaining wort to a holding tank.

5. When the first boil & cubing is done, transfer the second runnings (Parti-Gyle) into the boiler.

6. Assume 10-13% utilisation from the 1st hops left in the boiler. If you want more, calculations required.

7. Boil & cube.


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## VP Brewing (15/4/16)

Yyyyyyeeessssssssssss


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## talco92 (17/4/16)

Couple of questions:

How big is the MLT/Boil kettle you guys are using? 
And is this party-brew thing something that goes down a lot? 
And how do you all seem to know each other... <_<


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## Grainer (17/4/16)

THIS WOULD BE A GOOD PartyGyle /.... Pending hop availability.... (Can be downscaled if required to 500L if less cubing) ..pending what people want to spend on a beer.. BIG beers cost more... 16 Bags required for theses recipes for the desired 800L

quick calculation maybe looking at $50 buy in for a cube of each??
~25 Cubes of American Sheep Rooter Barleywine 
~20 Cubes of Imperial Red Ale???
~ $1000 to make ($860 Grain $100 Hops? $40 Sugar)

Extra cubes at cost to cover food to be reimbursed to this providing there is NO SALAD!

Barley wine at $35 a cube extra
Imperial Red Ale at $25 a cube extra

*American Sheep Rooter Barleywine*

800L
11.1%
77.4IBU

300kg TY Peal
15kg Crystal Dark
15kg Crystal Medium
Vienna 6kg
6kg Carafa III
9kg Sugar Raw

650g Citra Hop 60
650g Nelson Savin Dry 60
400g Nelson Savin Dry 45
250 Citra 30
250 Citra 15
250 Nelson Savin 15
250 Citra 0
250 Nelson Savin 0

Suggest WLP001

Dry Hop several times wit what eva u want


then do this.... But would need adjusting to suit the previous grains and require additional grains to be milled


*Imperial Red Ale - Admiral Akbar Hack Clone*

800L
8.6%
70IBU

*Malt:*
235kg TF Pearl
*15.56kg Carared*
15.11kg Med Crystal
15.11kg Dark Cryst
4.5kg Carafa Special III

*Hops:*
560g Nelson Savin 60mins
298.72g Citra 60 mins

836.4g Nelson Savin 20mins
836.4g Citra 15mins
744g Citra 10 mins
600g Nelson Savin 10 mins
744g Citra Dry hop 4 days
744g Nelson Savin Dry hop 4 days

Suggest WLP001

Depends if Yob can get his hands on the Citra and Nelson Savin...doubt it tho... But these hops would be freakinawesome in these..?


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## GrumpyPaul (18/4/16)

talco92 said:


> Couple of questions:
> 
> How big is the MLT/Boil kettle you guys are using?
> And is this party-brew thing something that goes down a lot?
> And how do you all seem to know each other... <_<


Talco 

Doesnt look like youve had an answer to these questions yet.

The gear tends to vary from meet to meet so not 100% sure where its at currently.
Previous efforts have used multiple MLTs.
The kettle is a huge and awesome 600l stainless drum.

These brews are done at the swap meets - which in Vic happens twice a year roughly July and December.
Check out this thread for more details about the up coming one. I beleive it is set for July 8 at "Whiteferret's" place near Shepparton.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88970-vic-2016-xmas-in-july-case-swap/page-4
The swap list is full but there is always room more non swapping attendees.

And we all know each from this forum - the swaps are a great way for to put faces to names of the folks on this forum. 

Just picture turning up to a complete stangers house, hanging out with a bunch of random blokes, drinking beer, making beer, eating and drinking more beer. Some blokes take a swag and it becomes a big drunken slumber party.


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## talco92 (19/4/16)

Cheers for the info grumpy.

Would love to be there, but not sure if I can make it this time. As a non-swapper I can probably turn up on short notice hey? :drinks:


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## Yob (20/4/16)

Yep, sure can.. New faces welcome


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

So what do people think of the receipe concept?.. wasn't gunna spend too much time on it until people were interested.. If they are I will work on it more and adjust all the grain bills to suit the party gale etc and suggest dry hopping etc..


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## technobabble66 (20/4/16)

If you head brewers reckon you can get the partigyle concept to work, then i'd be keen to go with it: 2 cubes, baby!!

One minor problem with both the recipes you've got up there: I think you/we'll have buckley's chance of getting enough Nelson Sauvin. So we may need to run the gauntlet and swap the hops.

FWIW, i'm not sure i need an entire cube of 11%. 
TBH, i've never tried a barleywine, so i could be convinced as the Wee Heavy was pretty damn tasty. I guess i'd also be a little concerned getting a yeast to chew through something that high, but again, i could be convinced.
So in summary, i think both recipes look great, though i'd probably be targeting more like 8-9% for the first runnings.

What would the second runnings be roughly from the 11% and the 8.5% first run? ~4-5%?


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## mofox1 (20/4/16)

Not sure about a barley wine, Grainer... and I didn't love the result of the only PA I did with Nelson Sauvin (of course - not necessarily the fault of the hops!!!). *BUT, *I haven't had the original from fortitude brewing co., so what do I know?

Grist for the Red IPA seems nice and simple, but maybe too xtal heavy.


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

Yob seems to think hops aren't an issue ... He loves HOPS! and can probably get them from local suppliers format he posts in his HopDealz web posts! He is the man .. he can make it happen ..If not I am sure we all have enough hops combined to make it happen !. Admiral Akbar is one of the best beers I have tasted in a long time and it uses Nelson ! The Barleywine can be dry hopped with Centennial and amarillo to give it aa bit more substance on the nose.

11% is easy to ferment out and can be bottled using CB-1 which will easily chew threw the remaining priming sugar. I have never had a problem with high percentage beers like this.. its what I do LOL...my next beer is a all gran 16% ! LMAO Pushing the limits of brewing without eisbock ! The barleywine can be given a boost with the DME block left over from he last case swap as well. I have a chain saw at home if it is hard .. LOL martin! The admiral can be dropped 1% if need be.. First runnings id hope for 1.050-1.060.. and with a grain to up into a remash should be easy....

Grist for the Red IPA seems nice and simple, but maybe too xtal heavy.....Not sure what you mean by XTAL heavy.. it is meant to be !

Once again I am not going to invest time into perfecting the recipe unless people want it ! This is only the first brain dump reciepe from my head!


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## droid (20/4/16)

Yob had a Barley Wine going around at the last winter swap which i thought was spectacular


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## JB (20/4/16)

Yep I like the sound of the barleywine & red ipa combo.

But I've never made a beer with Nelson that I've liked, I've had commercial beers with Nelson which have been ok, AJ80s nelson pale was (un)surprisingly great, but nope not a fan of Nelson.

Could just dry hop the crap out of it to exercise those nelson demons, but kinda defeating the point though.


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## MartinOC (20/4/16)

'Sounds like anything involving Nelson has a big thumbs-down from the cogniscente, so might need a re-think...

For those curious about the technicalities, here's a cut/paste from a Beersmith newsletter thinggie I received a couple of months ago:

Parti-Gyle brewing is a method for making more than one batch of beer from a single all grain mash. It offers tremendous flexibility since you can brew two beers of different gravities, and also add different hops and yeast to create distinct beers from one brewing session.

History
Parti-Gyle brewing is not a new method. The method goes back hundreds of years, and many modern sub-styles are examples of light and heavy versions made from a single mash. Examples include the various weights of English and Scotch Ale, various grades of Bock, and even variations of Trappist ales. In the 1700's and 1800's it was very common to create a strong beer from the first runnings of the mash and a lighter common beer from the second runnings of a mash.

The Parti-Gyle Method
The standard method for Parti-Gyle brewing is to make two beers from a single mash. Typically a fairly high gravity beer is made from the “first runnings” of the mash, and the second runnings are boiled separately to make a lighter beer. Often different hop additions, boil additions and yeast are used to create distinct styles from the two runnings depending on the brewer's preference.

Estimating the Gravity of Each Beer
When designing a parti-gyle beer, one is usually concerned with gravity and color of the two beers being created. This is important for determining how much grain is required for each beer and also how much liquid to run through each to achieve a target boil gravity. The rule of thumb for an average mash is that 2/3 of the gravity potential is in the first 1/2 of the runnings. This is due to the fact that most of the high gravity wort comes in the first third of the lauter.
One common parti-gyle split is 1/3 volume for the first runnings and 2/3 volume for the second which results in a first batch of beer that has twice the points that the second batch will have. So for example if the total mash had an estimated original gravity of 1.060, we would expect the first 1/3 to have a gravity of 1.090 and the second to have a gravity of half the points or 1.045.
For a 50-50 split by volume, with half of the wort in each batch we get a roughly 58% of the gravity points in the first batch. So a 1.060 overall batch OG would translate to a 1.070 first runnings and 1.050 second runnings, with both of equal size.

Estimating OG for Split Batches
To perform these calculations yourself, start with the OG estimate of the mash runnings using conventional methods. This can be done using the method described here, except you use the mash efficiency and total lauter volume instead of the overall brewhouse efficiency and overall batch volume to get your mash OG estimate.
Once you have the OG estimate for the overall batch, get the number of points by subtracting one and multiplying by 1000, so 1.060 becomes 60 points. Next we use the following to calculate the final number of points in this fraction:
So if we look at a 1.060 total gravity estimate with a 1/3-2/3 volume split which has half the points in each runnings we get 60 points, 0.5 as the points_fraction and 1/3 or 0.333 as the fractional volume:
Number_points_ runnings = (Tot_points * Points_fraction / fractional_volume)
The second runnings of 2/3 is:
Number_points_runnings = (60 * 0.50 / 0.333) = 90 points or a gravity of 1.090

Number_points_runnings2 = (60*0.50 / 0.666) = 45 points or 1.045 gravity

Using the same equation, you can come up with an accurate estimate for the gravity of each of the runnings based on the original gravity of the overall batch.

Color Considerations
It should be no surprise that the color of the two batches in a parti-gyle will be darker for the first runnings and lighter for the second in most cases. Calculating the actual color for a regular beer is described here, and is based on the Malt Color Units (MCUs) which are simply the sum of the pounds of malt times their color for all grains in a batch.
Looking at the examples above - a 50-50 volume split has about 2/3 of the gravity in the first runnings and 1/3 in the second runnings. The malt color units follow, so about 2/3 of the MCUs will be in the first running and 1/3 in the second. So if you calculate the overall Malt Color Units for the total batch (sum of the pounds of malt times color of each malt), you can multiply it by 2/3 or 1/3 for each running and then apply the Morey equation to get the color estimate for each of the runnings. Here the OG_FRACTION refers to the 2/3-1/3 OG split so you would apply 2/3 to the first runnings and 1/3 to the second:

SRM_color = 1.4922 * ((MCU * OG_FRACTION) ** 0.6859)

Since the Morey equation is not linear, you will see a larger color difference for a parti-gyle beer when working with lighter beers. So for a very light beer and a 50-50 volume split, the first runnings will be almost twice as dark as the second runnings. However as the beer gets darker the difference will be smaller - to the point where the second runnings of a Stout beer might have no perceivable difference in color from the first.

After the Mash
Once you have mashed your parti-gyle beer and taken the two runnings, the rest of the brewing process is the same as with any other beer. Obviously the two runnings are boiled separately so you either need two boil pots and heat sources or a sterile way to store one of the runnings for a few hours while you boil the other.
One of the great features of part-gyle brewing is the ability to change the character of the beer in the boil and fermentation. By adding different hop additions, yeast, spices or steeping additional grains prior to the boil (much like an extract brew) you can dramatically change the character of the two beers produced. With a little imagination you really can create two distinctly different beer styles from a single brewing session.
For design purposes it is usually best to treat the two runnings as separate beers at this point, and the usual rules for estimating bitterness, final gravity and fermentation apply. The design possibilities are nearly endless. You could create a strong ale and bitter, a wheat bock and weizen, a brown and pale and many other combinations from a single mash.

Obviously, we can't know our "brewhouse efficiency" numbers etc, since the system is always cobbled-together from multiple systems, but at least we can get in the ballpark & have a bit of fun with it.

I reckon keep it as simple as possible - SMASH Barley Wine & SMASH 2nd Gyle. Pearl & Goldings?
Let's not forget that alcohol (& Yob's thumb) will be involved in the proceedings.... :chug:


----------



## Yob (20/4/16)

Lost me as soon as the numbers started...


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## MartinOC (20/4/16)

For your un-calibrated thumb, here it is distilled (watch the Mod's jump all-over this like a big black Rottweiller!):

The rule of thumb for an average mash is that 2/3 of the gravity potential is in the first 1/2 of the runnings. This is due to the fact that most of the high gravity wort comes in the first third of the lauter.

One common parti-gyle split is 1/3 volume for the first runnings and 2/3 volume for the second which results in a first batch of beer that has twice the points that the second batch will have. So for example if the total mash had an estimated original gravity of 1.060, we would expect the first 1/3 to have a gravity of 1.090 and the second to have a gravity of half the points or 1.045.


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

1 person didn't like Nelson, and one wasn't sure if his beer was any good...but yet they are not designing receipes that I see here.. don't see that as a reason not to use it.. the receipe I have designed holds its own.. and don't see why it is a reason not to use it..I'll be out if its a SMASH .. not interested in having a smash as a result of this...as a SMASH Barleywine/gyle is not something I would want to put time into or drink, especially for the sakes of adding a few more grains that will exponentially increase the drinking experience.

http://fortitudebrewing.com.au/beer-type/admiral-ackbar-anti-imperial-red-ale/

FU^&ing Great Beer.. don't knock it unless you have had it!


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## technobabble66 (20/4/16)

How much volume do we need to be hitting?
24 people getting 22L each is close to 550L per batch. Plus losses/inefficiencies. So target roughly 600L?

If I've understood Martin's figures correctly we should be able to punch out 2 lots of 600L to hit 1.083 & 1.060 respectively, using the Barleywine recipe Grainer posted at 75% efficiency. 
Mind you, take out the sugar and it's 70 & 58. 
Pretty similar numbers. I'd be happy to go the 50:50 volume as it's going to be the easiest to reconcile volumes into cubes (I think). But it'll be hard to hit Barleywine numbers doing this. 
So either we do a 1/3 & 2/3 vol split or go more with an imperial+ale or ESB+mild. 
Just mulling over options

Edit: if we did 1/3,2/3 vol, the Barleywine recipe becomes 1.103 & 1.052. I reckon that's more interesting as a result for 2 different beers, but I'm not sure how we go about splitting 400L + 800L? New lists?


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## technobabble66 (20/4/16)

Fwiw, the Imperial Red will have all the Nelson in the cube, so peoples could just sub in anything else. 

I'd suggest for both "gyles" maybe use Citra as FWH and leave it as that. Everything else is cubists' choice into their cube.


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

Prefer to push the higher grav for a barleywine and add malt character....


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

An early centennial/columbus would work on the barkeywine 2 instead of nelson to add ibu but see no reason to be against kiwis..the IRA would best benefit from the Nelson


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

technobabble66 said:


> How much volume do we need to be hitting?
> 24 people getting 22L each is close to 550L per batch. Plus losses/inefficiencies. So target roughly 600L?
> 
> If I've understood Martin's figures correctly we should be able to punch out 2 lots of 600L to hit 1.083 & 1.060 respectively, using the Barleywine recipe Grainer posted at 75% efficiency.
> ...


Guess 1st on the lists?? And organiser preferene?


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## AJ80 (20/4/16)

I'm in with Nelson sauvin and citra (if we can get it!). My only suggestion on the recipe would be to dial down the crystal a tad (the carared). Just a suggestion though.


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

I would change it a bit to have amber/victory malt in there if i was to reduce crystal..it needs to be sweeter crystals... for both...so do i work on a real receipe with these suggestions?

The dark crystal would need pulling back by 50-60% thinking about it with a substitution of the CaraRed .. I'll work on an updated receipe and go from there...


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## MartinOC (20/4/16)

Choosing an expensive & characterful hop like Citra for bittering is just going to be a WOFTAM (IMHO).

I suggested the SMASH, as it's dead simple. Sure, we can add some other things to the mix, but trying to hit numbers on an unknown system is just pissing into the wind. There's no base-line to work-from, so the results will be malleable whatever we do (not to say we won't make beer!!).

Grainer, go ahead & plan a recipe, but I suggest keeping it simple & don't expect to hit the numbers, or else your ego will take a serious battering/ribbing from the peanut gallery... 

Everyone bring extra an cube just in case we do better than expected & we can raffle-off the first-rights to each boil's leftovers. :super:


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

MartinOC said:


> Choosing an expensive & characterful hop like Citra for bittering is just going to be a WOFTAM (IMHO).
> 
> I suggested the SMASH, as it's dead simple. Sure, we can add some other things to the mix, but trying to hit numbers on an unknown system is just pissing into the wind. There's no base-line to work-from, so the results will be malleable whatever we do (not to say we won't make beer!!).
> 
> ...


I would be using Magnum for bittering


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

Base Barleywine Reciepe - Hop it as u like

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 561.44 l
Post Boil Volume: 560.19 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 550.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 549.05 l
Estimated OG: 1.108 SG
Estimated Color: 27.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 98.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
225.00 kg Pearl (4.6 EBC) Grain 1 90.8 % 
6.60 kg Gladfield Dark Crystal Malt (190.0 EBC) Grain 2 2.7 % 
6.60 kg Gladfield Medium Crystal Malt (111.0 EBC Grain 3 2.7 % 
2.96 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 4 1.2 % 
6.56 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 5 2.6 % 
1400.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 78.4 IBUs 
700.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 20.0 IBUs 

The magnum is VERY neutral so this will allow for the cubists to style there Barleywine to suit and allow for some huge variations in late hop additions
Suggestions for Dry Hop : Centennial, Amarillo, Citra. These will also add a small level of IBU and bring it to ~107 which is about target.
If we don't have enough Pearl we can add the rest of the DME from the last swap
Now to wok on the IRA receipe..time to do some calculations .. maybe after Vikings !

Party Gyle would require a secondary mash of an additional 3.5kg Medium Crystal, and 9kg of Carared with cube hopped preferences. Suggest Nelson Savin/Citra or columbus /cascade or centennial/simcoe

fml.. just realise d I am in Borneo and Thailand in July ! please change it to Xmas in late June !


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## Whiteferret (20/4/16)

So the first runnings need to be enough for the cube list so 24 x 20L = 480 + losses we're looking at more than 800L hot water straight up.
And then do it again for the gyle 480 + losses about 600L hot water. Only rough figures. Anyone know of of a milk vat available anywhere? Genuinely interested myself in one of the older round ones like Bandicoot brewery has if around.


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## micbrew (20/4/16)

I'm with techno here !

give me an esb and Irish , over the barley wine , my 2c

Is idzy attending or is his gear available to use , given the volumes we need.

argh don't you love the pre amble to these events ?

and have we sorted the food yet ...think I gluten free and lactose intolerant

mick


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

whiteferret said:


> So the first runnings need to be enough for the cube list so 24 x 20L = 480 + losses we're looking at more than 800L hot water straight up.
> And then do it again for the gyle 480 + losses about 600L hot water. Only rough figures. Anyone know of of a milk vat available anywhere? Genuinely interested myself in one of the older round ones like Bandicoot brewery has if around.


I calculated for 550l


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## Whiteferret (20/4/16)

No one has mentioned food yet. I'm hoping to have a wood fired oven ready so maybe pizzas for Friday night and maybe slow roasted stuff in rolls for lunch whatever Saturday.


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## Grainer (20/4/16)

m sure there are a few smokers out there 2


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## Whiteferret (20/4/16)

An UDS that hasn't fired a shot for over a year. Hmm must do some more smoked chicken breasts. And bacon!


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## micbrew (20/4/16)

Hey Wayne

Can you get your hands on a big ol cast iron pot for over the fire

maybe a hearty stew over the coals ...just a thought


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## VP Brewing (20/4/16)

I can borrow my brothers UDS too. It's only 10min from Whiteferrets so will save someone bringing one from far away. I'll supply his beer and get him to operate it.


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## technobabble66 (21/4/16)

whiteferret said:


> So the first runnings need to be enough for the cube list so 24 x 20L = 480 + losses we're looking at more than 800L hot water straight up.
> And then do it again for the gyle 480 + losses about 600L hot water. Only rough figures. Anyone know of of a milk vat available anywhere? Genuinely interested myself in one of the older round ones like Bandicoot brewery has if around.


Hey Wayne. Just found this on gumtree for you:
Mixing vat Milk chemical detergent stainless steel double skin on Gumtree http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/1098795611
$2900 is mentioned.


----------



## technobabble66 (21/4/16)

And there's this, not far from Shepp
Milk vat 5500Litres on Gumtree http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/1100019278
Or this in warragul
Milk Vat, Stainless Steel, 2000 Litre on Gumtree http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/1108016451
Only $600!!


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## idzy (21/4/16)

So just a couple of comments from me:

I am attending and bringing gear.
At the end of the day, swap host has full right of veto on recipe and the recipe brewed at the swap. Good on ya Wayne 
A compromise for the Barleywine vs ESB could be a side boil of cane sugar to be added to the cube to allow those that want to ramp up the gravity add syrup to the cube, doesn't need to be in the main boil necessarily.
A compromise to lower the gravity on a high gravity brew would be to add water to the cube, or add it to the fermenter. The main thing is keeping the grain bill similar.
Idzy


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## Curly79 (21/4/16)

Nice to have you back on board Idzy[emoji106]


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## Grainer (21/4/16)

wooohooo my international trip was changed to June !.. looks like I can still go...I may bring my 9L keg of American Barleywine for tasting!


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## idzy (22/4/16)

Curly79 said:


> Nice to have you back on board Idzy[emoji106]


Good to be back Curly, it has been a hectic few months with a number of projects on the go and raising the next brew brat in the lineage, haha. Second generation brewer, I shall call him Mini Idzy...


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## GrumpyPaul (22/4/16)

idzy said:


> Second generation brewer, I shall call him Mini Idzy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


mini??? Surely not.

We all know you like to do things on a grand scale.

I'm guessing that little fella had a birth wight of around 23lb and is already head and shoulders above me.

It also wouldnt surprise me if he came out with a camlock equipped quick disconnect umbilical cord.

I think you should just save time and go straight to calling him "BIG IDZY" insisting that it is alway wrtten in upper case letters.


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## AJ80 (24/4/16)

Just throwing it out there for discussion, but are we better to keep things simpler and aim for a single batch at 1.050(ish) with a recipe of 95% pearle and 5% medium crystal with a neutral buttering hop at 60mins for 30 IBUs. People can the cube hop which ever way they want to take it.


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## Curly79 (24/4/16)

I'm all for keeping it simple. As Idzy said, the host should have the majority of the vote. What you reckon Wayne?


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## MartinOC (24/4/16)

AJ80 said:


> Just throwing it out there for discussion, but are we better to keep things simpler and aim for a single batch at 1.050(ish) with a recipe of 95% pearle and 5% medium crystal with a neutral buttering hop at 60mins for 30 IBUs. People can the cube hop which ever way they want to take it.


Hear-Hear!

AJ80 for Pres!


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## MartinOC (26/4/16)

Whiteferret, Whiteferret!

Wherefore art thou Whiteferret?


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## Whiteferret (26/4/16)

Simple sounds good to me.


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## Whiteferret (26/4/16)

Mick I've got a couple of camp ovens and can borrow more.


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## MastersBrewery (26/4/16)

whiteferret said:


> Mick I've got a couple of camp ovens and can borrow more.


spent Anzac day cleaning up both of mine happy to bring with.


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## MartinOC (26/4/16)

Master Whiteferret has spoken & exercised his right of veto on complex recipes & techniques. BRAVO!!

I've got a cast-iron camp oven & can bring it up as/if required.

Wayne, do you want me to bring my brazier for standing-around & staring into &/or some wood along with the malt? Plenty of room in the trailer... 

BTW, we still don't have food organised/contributions allocated. Anyone NEW willing to take-on catering coordination?


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## MartinOC (26/4/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> spent Anzac day cleaning up both of mine happy to bring with.


Mate, you need to update your current location - confusing as hell to expect someone from Penrith NSW to rock-up to a Vic. case swap!


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## MastersBrewery (26/4/16)

MartinOC said:


> Mate, you need to update your current location - confusing as hell to expect someone from Penrith NSW to rock-up to a Vic. case swap!


I know however I am unable to edit that from the phone. My pc died from a terminal bios crash so the whole thing may as well be a brick.


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## Nullnvoid (26/4/16)

Also have a camp oven and can bring it. And there is the spit if necessary which can attend


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## TheWiggman (27/4/16)

I can assist with food if required but I've never been to one of these swaps before and have a lot going on at work and home (well, homes... moving house). I've got camping gear as well. I'm a big fan of the camp oven idea with a handful of stews slowly roasting away over some open fires. So from that angle, I'm prepared to bring along a feed and the gear required to prep it. If a few of us did that I think we'd be well fed. 
Oh and I can bring a beer or two as well, I'm a pretty keen homebrewer as you may be aware.


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## VP Brewing (27/4/16)

I'm able to bring a camp oven with a roast from a beast my brother had killed a few months back. 
Also fresh farm eggs from my old mans chooks and some local award winning bacon from numurkah butchers. 

I might start a food thread tonight so we keep the food separate from the recipe thread. 

Camp ovens are the go. Perfect time of year and easy for many people to contribute.


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## VP Brewing (27/4/16)

New food thread is up. Feel free to throw some ideas there.


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## kunfaced (28/4/16)

I request we brew a giant cannabis ale.


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## technobabble66 (28/4/16)

You're welcome to cube hop with whatever you want ... [emoji6]

... though I think you're better off dry hopping for the effect I'm assuming you want.


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## MartinOC (28/4/16)

kunfaced said:


> I request we brew a giant cannabis ale.





technobabble66 said:


> You're welcome to cube hop with whatever you want ... [emoji6]
> 
> ... though I think you're better off dry hopping for the effect I'm assuming you want.


Sorry to disappoint you both, but there's no way you can achieve any psychoactive effect from putting the naughty green stuff in beer.

THC isn't water-soluble, so it'd be a waste of good hooch.


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## kunfaced (28/4/16)

MartinOC said:


> Sorry to disappoint you both, but there's no way you can achieve any psychoactive effect from putting the naughty green stuff in beer.
> 
> THC isn't water-soluble, so it'd be a waste of good hooch.


educated guess?


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## Mardoo (28/4/16)

If a person were to consider doing such a bad and illegal thing they would need to do an extraction with Polish rectified spirit (95% ethanol) or pure collected steam first and then add that to the beer.


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## kunfaced (28/4/16)

what syle of beer goes well fortified with spirytus?


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## MartinOC (28/4/16)

kunfaced said:


> educated guess?


Educated. Researched it maybe 25 years ago.

ANYWAY........Do we have a recipe/plan for this beer we're making, or is everyone still all fluffing-around?


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## kunfaced (28/4/16)

MartinOC said:


> Educated. Researched it maybe 25 years ago.


People use to think the world was flat.


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## MartinOC (28/4/16)

Can't alter Chemistry, mate.

Bongs work because THC isn't water-soluble. Otherwise, they wouldn't & everything would be left in the water.

QED.

Moving right along........


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## MastersBrewery (28/4/16)

On topic people. I believe Martin has reserved us some Perl malt what beer are we going to make with it. Note the host has vetoed faffing about brew day. Simple effective yummy beer. On with the sudgestions.


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## MartinOC (28/4/16)

I reckon AJ80's suggestion for Pearl & 5% medium crystal is the go. 

I can source a number of "medium" crystals in sufficient amounts for this, so it would really only come down to colour & maltster (ie. Bairds/Gladfields etc...etc...).

Neutral bittering to about 30 IBU's with something like Magnum & the rest is personal preference in the cube & beyond.

0.02c


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## MastersBrewery (28/4/16)

OG?


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## TheWiggman (29/4/16)

Pearl malt, 5% medium crystal... 30 IBU.
Challenger and Target into the cube.
Water down to 1.045.
Ferment with 1275 at 20°C, hit 1.010 hopefully.
Quaff at 8-10°C with minimum spritz.


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## TheWiggman (29/4/16)

OG I reckon hit around 1.065, mash around 65°C. That way if people want a stronger brew then it's doable and for others they can water down as required.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (29/4/16)

Liking the sound of the simplicity. Means more time for shenanigans and salad during the day!

Got some chinook, citra and simcoe which may play nice together in the cube[emoji108]


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## MartinOC (29/4/16)

Don't mention this stuff again! The salad-Police are out there just waiting to pounce on posts like that & you could find yourself in Room 101 with a raging/rampant lettuce pressed-up against your face in a cage.


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## TheWiggman (29/4/16)

Salad is what food eats


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## MartinOC (13/5/16)

125Kg of Pearl confirmed. If we want/need more, I'll need to know ASAP so I can fiddle with CB inventory.

If we need extras from the CB inventory (ie. Crystal), let me know ASAP the type/manufacturer/EBC etc. so I can adjust things & reserve them from general sale.


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## Yob (14/5/16)

I like where this is headed..


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## mofox1 (14/5/16)

Yob said:


> I like where this is headed..


Shep? .... h34r:


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## TheWiggman (18/5/16)

Brewed the swap beer today, cubed and cooling as we speak. Specially ordered yeast spooling up and rearing to go.


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## VP Brewing (30/5/16)

For any of you that make ESBs do you have any suggestions for cube hops for the beer we make on the day? I've been doing heaps of APAs and AIPAs lately so I don't want to do another one. 
Heading to cheeky peak this weekend for some supplies.


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## idzy (30/5/16)

VP Brewing said:


> For any of you that make ESBs do you have any suggestions for cube hops for the beer we make on the day? I've been doing heaps of APAs and AIPAs lately so I don't want to do another one.
> Heading to cheeky peak this weekend for some supplies.


Depends what you would like to shoot for. EKG/Fuggles would give more typical flavouring, but something like NS/Motueka/Galaxy would land you closer to HH ESB. Then there is a myriad of options in between.


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## Black n Tan (30/5/16)

VP Brewing said:


> For any of you that make ESBs do you have any suggestions for cube hops for the beer we make on the day? I've been doing heaps of APAs and AIPAs lately so I don't want to do another one.
> Heading to cheeky peak this weekend for some supplies.


challenger and styrian goldings play well together


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## technobabble66 (30/5/16)

& EKG plays well with crystal (malt). 

EKG & challenger for me!

In fact, I'd argue to target something a bit lower for the kettle hops - like ~20 IBUs. 
So then I can shove more hops onto my cube and get a bit more pop from my cube additions.


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## technobabble66 (30/5/16)

So 95% Pearl + 5% med Crystal (or heritage?!) at ~1.060
~30 IBUs of magnum as FWH, plus ~10-15 IBUs into the cube. 

So for each 21L cube, that's the equivalent of:
5.225kg Pearl + 275g med Crystal; 
20g magnum at FWH then 
20g each of EKG & challenger into the cube. 
Then dilute it out to (up to) 25L, gives OG=1.050, 38 IBUs, & 16 EBC. 
Or keep it at 1.060 & go hard. 

Throw some 1469 onto it. 
Good times.


Edit: assumes 75% mash efficiency, main sacch step at 65*c.


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## MartinOC (25/6/16)

Crunch-time gents...

125Kg of Pearl confirmed (courtesy of CB's recent BB).

If we want CB to provide the crystal as well, I'm gonna need a consensus on what type & how much, so I can cook the books & buy at staff-discount rates.

Otherwise, it's a case of "everyone bring something & we'll all chuck it in for fun" (which I personally don't have a problem with - we're just making beer whilst everything else happens & what we get is what we get...).

CB can't supply the hops, so this is something we need to get a handle-on & resolve between us ASAP & get locked-in to avoid problems on the day.

Yob has already offered to contribute some Magnum, but we'll need to confirm amounts & AA's to get the IBU's in the right ballpark. The amounts will need calculating. I've got a shitload of bittering stuff that I'm happy to donate for nix.

Whilst this is always a heap of fun to do on the fly, we're not at home to Mr Clusterfuck!


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## DJ_L3ThAL (25/6/16)

I've got at least 1kg of Dark Crystal I can contribute. I like the idea of bring something and chuck it in, although I'm impartial to which way we go!

Will check stocks and post back.


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## mofox1 (25/6/16)

I can supply 2kg of Carabohemian (~75L / 200 EBC) and/or up to 3kg Crisp Light (~45L / 120EBC).

What do we need in total... ~6kg ish?


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## MartinOC (26/6/16)

OK, if you two guys contribute that lot (DJ - can you confirm the type/EBC & amount of dark Crystal you've got available) & I up it to 150Kg of Pearl, we're in the ballpark of around 1070 & 20 EBC.

I'll rummage around in the freezer for bittering hops & see what I come up with.


----------



## MastersBrewery (26/6/16)

I have a few kilo of dark crystal I can bring up, to have in reserve if needed.


----------



## Yob (26/6/16)

MartinOC said:


> OK, if you two guys contribute that lot (DJ - can you confirm the type/EBC & amount of dark Crystal you've got available) & I up it to 150Kg of Pearl, we're in the ballpark of around 1070 & 20 EBC.
> 
> I'll rummage around in the freezer for bittering hops & see what I come up with.


Wasn't I bringing Magnum? Just tell me how much.


----------



## kunfaced (26/6/16)

i've got 20kg of JW crystal i need to use up


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## MartinOC (26/6/16)

Yob said:


> Wasn't I bringing Magnum? Just tell me how much.


I seem to remember you were supplying "some", but it was short of what we'd need. I'm calculating 750g @ 10.5% will give us about 37 IBU's. 800g will nudge 40 IBU's.



kunfaced said:


> i've got 20kg of JW crystal i need to use up


What EBC? For simplicity, it would make sense to use one type than several.

Edit: Added two IBU alternatives to give folks an idea & plan their own cube-hop additions on the day.


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## Yob (26/6/16)

Memory says 13.2% and I can probably scrape up 500-800g


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## MartinOC (26/6/16)

I used 10.5% as it was the 2014-crop Magnum listed on the HDA website.

@ 13.2% will give:

600g ~ 37 IBU's
650g ~ 40 IBU 
700g ~ 43.5 IBU
750g ~ 47 IBU

I reckon aim for 37 & let folks make their own increased IBU choices & additions from there. We can always add, but not take away....


----------



## Yob (26/6/16)

Memory might be wrong, I'll check it


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## technobabble66 (26/6/16)

I can supply ~2-3kgs each of Pale & dark Crystal (Simpsons), carabohemian, caraaroma, Ding aromatic, spec B, caraRed, Victory, choc & midnight wheat. 
Is any of that of any help?


----------



## MartinOC (26/6/16)

Actually Stu, a couple of Kg of Midnight Wheat would probably add a nice reddish-hue & give some head-retention, so bring it along & chuck it in the hopper.

Gotta be there early (or organise someone who will be, to take it up - I know your penchant for arriving late & leaving early...).


----------



## droid (26/6/16)

i ordered some magnum from the yobmeister this week and it's 11.7


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## Yob (26/6/16)

But the other natch I've split reads 13.8 

(pretty sure anyway)

If you say you want a kilo, I'll put it aside, if we don't need it all, bonus Hops for Wayne


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## MartinOC (26/6/16)

It doesn't HAVE to be Magnum, it was simply an efficient neutral bittering I was thinking we could use.

Yob, if you've got anything else in the bittering-department that you want to move-on, it's all good, just call-it.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (26/6/16)

MartinOC said:


> OK, if you two guys contribute that lot (DJ - can you confirm the type/EBC & amount of dark Crystal you've got available) & I up it to 150Kg of Pearl, we're in the ballpark of around 1070 & 20 EBC.
> 
> I'll rummage around in the freezer for bittering hops & see what I come up with.


2kg Simpsons Dark Crystal EBC 200-230


----------



## Yob (27/6/16)

MartinOC said:


> It doesn't HAVE to be Magnum, it was simply an efficient neutral bittering I was thinking we could use.
> 
> Yob, if you've got anything else in the bittering-department that you want to move-on, it's all good, just call-it.


Dr rudi?


----------



## technobabble66 (27/6/16)

Maybe for one of these we could do a "pot luck" brew - where everyone just brings whatever they have spare and want to use up. 
Obviously would need to notify/limit the use of rye, oats & wheat. 
It's certainly be a unique result!


----------



## MartinOC (28/6/16)

Yob said:


> Dr rudi?


Can-do. Got an AA% to work-with?

Edit: Who's going to milk the Stag this time? Mardoo & I did it last time & I can assure you, heavy-duty rubber gloves (& a few girlie-magazines are required to get the desired outcome.... h34r: ).


----------



## TheWiggman (28/6/16)

Pardon me for my ignorance as I've not attended a similar event before, but
wtf?


----------



## VP Brewing (28/6/16)

Don't ask.....


----------



## Yob (28/6/16)

Isn't xx.x% enough to work with? 

Geez!! 

Will get the numbers later (possibly even add to site)


----------



## MastersBrewery (28/6/16)

So the stag is why we're bringin the wet weather gear ..... ahh huh ... got it.

(Reminder to self: get vacinations updated Monday)


----------



## MartinOC (28/6/16)

TheWiggman said:


> Pardon me for my ignorance as I've not attended a similar event before, but
> wtf?


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/86540-vic-2015-xmas-case-swap/page-13

Posts #250 & #251.

Looking for unsuspecting victims willing volunteers (preferably case-swap virgins) to take-on this job...


----------



## MastersBrewery (28/6/16)

And what noone thought of bring a blender this year for foam cap? I mean hell I can throw in the planetary mixer if the kids dristract their mother long enough!


----------



## MartinOC (28/6/16)

Nah, mate - Brewbrite. 

B&T's last swap recipe called for about half a kg of the stuff & it was a royal PITA to prep. After much fluffing-around, I just stuck my hand in the container & broke-down all the clumps bit by bit over about half an hour.

Mardoo took the photo's, whilst I tried to stop pissing myself at his relentless Stag-Semen references.

Alcohol was involved....... :chug:


----------



## mofox1 (28/6/16)

MartinOC said:


> Nah, mate - Brewbrite.
> 
> B&T's last swap recipe called for about half a kg of the stuff & it was a royal PITA to prep. After much fluffing-around, I just stuck my hand in the container & broke-down all the clumps bit by bit over about half an hour.
> 
> ...


So... whirlfloc this time?


----------



## Yob (28/6/16)

Dr Rudi, 11.3%


----------



## MartinOC (29/6/16)

kunfaced said:


> i've got 20kg of JW crystal i need to use up


5Kg of your finest, please. Can you confirm the EBC on it (or at least the type)?

Thanks, Yob.

750g @ 11.3% will get us nudging 40 IBU's.


----------



## Yob (29/6/16)

I'll put. 2 packs on the list of shit to throw in the car


----------



## technobabble66 (29/6/16)

Hey martin, could you throw up the recipe you're going with, either for the full vol or 20L, please?
Just so I can devise which hops to stick in zee kube, and how much. 

Has anyone cube grained before?


----------



## Yob (29/6/16)

I remember someone doing it with spec malts, darks IIRC


----------



## Mardoo (29/6/16)

IIRC Danwood cube grains.


----------



## technobabble66 (29/6/16)

Yeah, i was wondering if it's gotta be dark only, or if something like Aromatic, Biscuit, CaraRed, or even Med/Heritage Xtal might be OK?

I'm assuming you need to avoid free starch, but if the grains aren't cracked hopefully anything above ~20-30 EBC might be OK


----------



## mofox1 (29/6/16)

MartinOC said:


> 5Kg of your finest, please. Can you confirm the EBC on it (or at least the type)?
> 
> Thanks, Yob.
> 
> 750g @ 11.3% will get us nudging 40 IBU's.


So is the 5kg of JW the only crystal we need? Or do we still need other contributions as myself, stu & nath have offered... I'm a simple person, dumb it down for me!


----------



## MartinOC (29/6/16)

I'll put the recipe up when I get home this arvo.

Yep, Mick. I reckon the 5Kg of JW crystal (I'm assuming the 217 EBC stuff at the moment), plus Stu's 2Kg of Midnight Wheat should be all we really need.


----------



## MartinOC (29/6/16)

OK, I'm a dinosaur - I admit it. Got one of those smartarse phone thinggies a few months ago (provided by my employer) & still don't know how to drive it (like I actually care?). Still smarter than most of you young whipper-snappers anyway.. :blink:

How the **** do I post-up the recipe from Beersmith to here???

Be gentle with me. I may be a technological numpty, but I make good beer...


----------



## technobabble66 (29/6/16)

Go old skool, martin: Type it out. 

How's that beard coming along, by the way? 
Or are you still going to be the skinner of the party again?
[emoji6]


----------



## technobabble66 (29/6/16)

Stoopid double post


----------



## MartinOC (29/6/16)

AAARGH!! I'm having a Senior's Moment. Double-posting etc...

I can type out the recipe manually, but I actually want to learn how to do it properly, so someone please come to the party & help me out here..

EDIT: PS Monosyllabic instructions preferred - I'm just a dumb ****.


----------



## MartinOC (29/6/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Or are you still going to be the skinner of the party again?
> [emoji6]


"Skinner"??


----------



## droid (29/6/16)

there should be a "share" icon and some choices inside there like "text" etc if you can't sort it out then highlight all the text by dragging your cursor over everyting you want (either from the start or working from the end back), right click and select copy all "select all" and copy

come back into AHB hit reply and right click then click on "paste"

that should be good enough


----------



## MartinOC (30/6/16)

```
Figured it out.  Here's the guts of it:

Recipe: July16 Swap Beer	TYPE: All Grain
Style: British Strong Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 37.7 EBC		SRM RANGE: 15.8-43.3 EBC
IBU: 39.8 IBUs Tinseth	IBU RANGE: 30.0-60.0 IBUs
OG: 1.069 SG		OG RANGE: 1.055-1.080 SG
FG: 1.016 SG		FG RANGE: 1.015-1.022 SG
BU:GU: 0.580		Calories: 427.1 kcal/l	Est ABV: 7.0 %		
EE%: 70.00 %	Batch: 500.00 l      Boil: 531.12 l	BT: 90 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 157.00 kg	Total Hops: 750.00 g oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
150.00 kg             Pale Malt, Pearl (Thomas Fawcett) (5.9 E Grain         1        95.5 %        
5.00 kg               Crystal, Dark (Joe White) (216.7 EBC)    Grain         2        3.2 %         
2.00 kg               Midnight Wheat (1466.0 EBC)              Grain         3        1.3 %         


Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 409.45 l of water at 71.9 C         65.6 C        75 min        

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 22.2 C/22.2 C
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 278.90 l water at 75.6 C

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG	Est OG: 1.069 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
750.00 g              Dr. Rudi [11.30 %] - Boil 90.0 min       Hop           4        39.8 IBUs
```


----------



## technobabble66 (30/6/16)

Congrats old dude!!
Thanks for posting 

For those who might want to know, having punched all that thru iahh's spreadsheet, for 20.5L, it works out to be roughly:
*20.5L*
6.42kg Ale malt
0.22kg Med Xtal
0.09kg Midnight Wheat

32g Dr Rudi (11.3%) @ 90mins

I think i'll dilute mine out to 27L and use 1469 on it - should be ~5.2%alc. Use ~10g each EKG & Challenger in the cube. 41 IBUs total.

Could i suggest we drop the Dr Rudi addition just a little bit?
It currently contributes so many IBUs there's not much wiggle room for cube additions.
I'm definitely fine if the consensus is it's malt driven and the hops shouldn't be too noticeable, but it'd be nice to have a few extra grams of the green stuff in the cube waiting for the warm embrace of the wort.
So a quick check is if the hops are dropped ~15%, it'll drop ~5 IBUs off. That translates to 5g on the small 20.5L scale, or 75g at the 500L scale.
So that'd make the hops addition on the day to be 675g of Dr Rudi.
Again, totally fine if you want to leave it as is. Just thought i'd put the idea out there.

Thanks again, Martin!


----------



## droid (30/6/16)

1065BG and 1069OG is that right?


----------



## Yob (30/6/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Congrats old dude!!
> Thanks for posting
> 
> For those who might want to know, having punched all that thru iahh's spreadsheet, for 20.5L, it works out to be roughly:
> ...


What's the matter with 180IBU beers?

Put your skirt away and man up disco


----------



## Yob (30/6/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Congrats old dude!!
> Thanks for posting
> 
> For those who might want to know, having punched all that thru iahh's spreadsheet, for 20.5L, it works out to be roughly:
> ...


What's the matter with 180IBU beers?

Put your skirt away and man up disco


----------



## Yob (30/6/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Congrats old dude!!
> Thanks for posting
> 
> For those who might want to know, having punched all that thru iahh's spreadsheet, for 20.5L, it works out to be roughly:
> ...


What's the matter with 180IBU beers?

Put your skirt away and man up disco


----------



## MastersBrewery (30/6/16)

Would a chard oak domino go ok in the cube? If so I'll throw one in some bourbon tonight!


----------



## technobabble66 (30/6/16)

Yob said:


> What's the matter with 180IBU beers?
> 
> Put your skirt away and man up disco


aren't you the kilt wearing hops dealer... [emoji185][emoji6]

I've nothing against 180 IBUs, I'm just thinking to keep the options open for allowing peoples to do whatever they want. I'd happily go more IBUs, but more in cube hopping than bittering - I prefer to taste my hops [emoji41]

Wasn't there a post or 2 in the Rant thread recently about the excessive number of double hopped imperial everything? [emoji12]



Speaking of bittering, could we do FWH instead of a 90min addition? I think I'm convinced of the benefits of FWH these days.


----------



## MartinOC (30/6/16)

droid said:


> 1065BG and 1069OG is that right?


Yeah, there's some tweaks needed (like salt-additions that I haven't worked-out yet).

I'm just driving this recipe because it looked like no-one else was stepping-up & decided to take the helm. NEXT TIME, someone else can take it...

I based this on my own system, but there's going to be much "thummage" to be had on the day.

Like I said..what we get is what we get.....



MastersBrewery said:


> Would a chard oak domino go ok in the cube? If so I'll throw one in some bourbon tonight!


Your beer.....


----------



## Grainer (30/6/16)

If you don't already have it I have about 12kg of Midnight to spare! - Haven't used it so your welcome to it.


----------



## technobabble66 (30/6/16)

Got my 2kgs all set. Just need to determine who's going up Friday so I can get it to them, as I may struggle to get there before mash in


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (30/6/16)

I'm heading up Friday mate if ya wanna hand to me, guessing I'm closest? [emoji106]


----------



## technobabble66 (30/6/16)

Yep, checked and already decided you were gonna be the courier 
Thanks for offering - i'll swing by in the next few days and drop off my black stash. Did you want any yourself, by the way? (or anyone else, for that matter - i can probably spare up to 1kg, and a little goes a very long way!)


----------



## technobabble66 (1/7/16)

I think i might try some Cube Malting.

Any suggestions or recommendations for a malt to use?

Probably going to go with Aromatic &/or Biscuit. 
CaraRed, CaraAroma, Spec B, Pale crystal, Melanoiden or Choc would be secondary considerations.

(Probably gonna stick to the basic UK style, with EKG+Challenger into the cube as well & fermented with 1469)

Thoughts?


Edit: added melanoiden


----------



## MartinOC (5/7/16)

kunfaced said:


> i've got 20kg of JW crystal i need to use up


Are you a confirmed provider for the 5Kg required? If so, I'll need to know the spec's.


----------



## MartinOC (5/7/16)

A few tweaks later........

Recipe: July16 Swap Beer	TYPE: All Grain
Style: British Strong Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 37.7 EBC SRM RANGE: 15.8-43.3 EBC
IBU: 35.0 IBUs Tinseth	IBU RANGE: 30.0-60.0 IBUs
OG: 1.069 SG OG RANGE: 1.055-1.080 SG
FG: 1.017 SG FG RANGE: 1.015-1.022 SG
BU:GU: 0.510 Calories: 427.1 kcal/l	Est ABV: 6.8 % 
EE%: 70.00 %	Batch: 500.00 l Boil: 531.12 l	BT: 90 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------

Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
80.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 

Total Grain Weight: 157.00 kg	Total Hops: 600.00 g oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
150.00 kg Pale Malt, Pearl (Thomas Fawcett) (5.9 E Grain 2 95.5 % 
5.00 kg Crystal, Dark (Joe White) (216.7 EBC) Grain 3 3.2 % 
2.00 kg Midnight Wheat (1466.0 EBC) Grain 4 1.3 % 


Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Mash In Add 409.45 l of water at 73.1 C 66.7 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 229.29 l of water at 93.7 C 75.6 C 10 min 

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 22.2 C/22.2 C
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 49.61 l water at 75.6 C
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
600.00 g Dr. Rudi [11.30 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 5 35.0 IBUs 

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG	Est OG: 1.069 SG
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
20.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 - 

Incorporated CaCl to make sure we cover at least the minimum 50ppm.

Adjusted the Dr Rudi addition down to 35 IBU's (as per Techno's request) as FWH. You may now cube-hop the **** out of your individual portions.

Added Whirlfloc tab's so that no unfortunate bastard has to milk the Stag this time (Cocko is calling for milking a sheep for the 2016 Xmas Swap, so stay tuned..... :unsure: ).

For some reason, the 50g of Yeast Nutrient I added to the recipe isn't showing here, but I'll bring it along with the Whirlfloc.

Any glaring omissions anyone can pick with this lot? I know the volumes, Pre/Post boil gravities are screwed, but we'll get a good result without knowing the exact numbers we get from the cobbled-together system until we get them. Maybe even more going on past experience with it....


----------



## Yob (5/7/16)

MartinOC said:


> I'll need to know the spec's.


geez what a nerd.. ever heard of a thumb?


----------



## Whiteferret (5/7/16)

Is someone else bringing a mill?


----------



## technobabble66 (5/7/16)

Cheers, Martin!
I've adjusted my spreadsheet accordingly.
Brewing Nerds Unite!!

Fairly set on:
100g Aromatic, 100g Biscuit, 15g Challenger, & 15g EKG all into the cube.
Happy to be advised otherwise.


----------



## Yob (5/7/16)

whiteferret said:


> Is someone else bringing a mill?


can do if you need


----------



## VP Brewing (6/7/16)

Is 50g of fuggles, 30g challenger and 30g EKG cube hops too much for this style?


----------



## VP Brewing (6/7/16)

And how much cost are we looking at for the brew ingredients?


----------



## MartinOC (6/7/16)

VP Brewing said:


> Is 50g of fuggles, 30g challenger and 30g EKG cube hops too much for this style?


What style? It's pretty-much a blank canvas for you to do what you want with it.



VP Brewing said:


> And how much cost are we looking at for the brew ingredients?


That'll be worked-out once we've got all the pieces together in one place & all the contributors to the brew get their heads together.


----------



## MartinOC (6/7/16)

VP Brewing said:


> Is 50g of fuggles, 30g challenger and 30g EKG cube hops too much for this style?


What style? It's pretty-much a blank canvas for you to do what you want with it.



VP Brewing said:


> And how much cost are we looking at for the brew ingredients?


That'll be worked-out once we've got all the pieces together in one place & all the contributors to the brew get their heads together.


----------



## mofox1 (6/7/16)

VP - Ballpark cost per cube is normally around the $20 to $30 mark, dependent on ingredients, gravity etc.


----------



## VP Brewing (6/7/16)

I was going by the British strong ale part in the recipe but I guess with those hops and some Wyeast British ale II slurry it will be in the English IPA ball park. Haven't done one before so will go with that.


----------



## technobabble66 (6/7/16)

Did extensive grain chewing today to test the flavour options for cube malting.
So i changed my mind, I'm going with: 100g Aromatic, 150g Gladfields Toffee, 15g each of EKG & Challenger into the cube.
Hopefully to optimise that classic (in my mind, at least) caramel/toffee mid-palate of a UK ESB.
Then ferment out with 1469, possibly at ~14-15°C.


...mind you, maybe i should have a crack at a EIPA - i just need to up the cube hops and don't dilute as much... hmmmm


----------



## mofox1 (6/7/16)

What is the water like in Shep?

Do we need any sodium met for chlorine/chloramine removal... Anyone have campden tablets if required?


----------



## reardo (6/7/16)

mofox1 said:


> What is the water like in Shep?
> 
> Do we need any sodium met for chlorine/chloramine removal... Anyone have campden tablets if required?


Mate, I work for the local water authority and according to our systems, there is no retic system out at Wayne's house. He would be the one to give you the best answer, but i'm assuming, rain water from tanks will be "on tap"...


----------



## Whiteferret (6/7/16)

Yep rain water it is.


----------



## MartinOC (6/7/16)

That's what I assumed when putting the recipe together - a beautifully soft, blank canvas.

If folks want to "season" their cubes along with their choice of hops, it's all good.


----------



## Mardoo (6/7/16)

whiteferret said:


> Yep rain water it is.


On Dagobah you live?


----------



## mofox1 (6/7/16)

whiteferret said:


> Yep rain water it is.


Nicey.



MartinOC said:


> That's what I assumed when putting the recipe together - a beautifully soft, blank canvas.


Should've figured you'd be way ahead of me.


So while I'm playing behind everyone else, I might as well ask this question again... are we sorted equipment wise? I'm assuming I didn't miss an 11th "2016 Vic Xmas in July <INSERT TOPIC HERE>" thread for equipment.. 

Kettle(s), HLT's, mash tuns, pumps, hoses, mills, OTS's... I'm sure it's probably covered, certainly. Maybe.


----------



## droid (6/7/16)

When are you getting there Mick? Another drill and a mill would be handy on Friday I assume.


----------



## MastersBrewery (6/7/16)

droid said:


> When are you getting there Mick? Another drill and a mill would be handy on Friday I assume.


cool something else I can throw in, upon return it can go straight to storage, then a few weeks later to the new place with bigger cleaner nicer shed, with power!


----------



## MartinOC (6/7/16)

droid said:


> When are you getting there Mick? Another drill and a mill would be handy on Friday I assume.


Gents,

The bulk of malt won't arrive until Saturday morning, so no rush to be there on Friday with a mill.


----------



## Grainer (6/7/16)

MartinOC said:


> Gents,
> 
> The bulk of malt won't arrive until Saturday morning, so no rush to be there on Friday with a mill.


If thats the case i can bring my monster mill and large hopper?


----------



## droid (6/7/16)

What time is mash-in?


----------



## mofox1 (6/7/16)

droid said:


> When are you getting there Mick? Another drill and a mill would be handy on Friday I assume.


I'll see if I can bring this... the whole family is heading up to Shep for another event (funeral, unfortunately), so it might not fit. It's fairly large... well, except for the hopper which gets embarrassed every time I put it thru it's paces.

Also dependant on whether someone can fit it in their vehicle for the return trip!!


----------



## Whiteferret (7/7/16)

3 new circuits for the brewing.


----------



## Grainer (7/7/16)

mofox1 said:


> I'll see if I can bring this... the whole family is heading up to Shep for another event (funeral, unfortunately), so it might not fit. It's fairly large... well, except for the hopper which gets embarrassed every time I put it thru it's paces.
> 
> Also dependant on whether someone can fit it in their vehicle for the return trip!!
> 
> 1467798380402.jpg


Thats a cute mill


----------



## mofox1 (7/7/16)

Grainer said:


> Thats a cute mill


Oh, you... ^_^


----------



## AJ80 (7/7/16)

Pulling things together now - any extra gear needed? Can bring an OTS element, 40L urn or a 50L keggle. Just let me know. 

Recipe looks the goods Martin. I'll be seasoning my cube with a mix of Ella, Citra and Chinook (around 20g of each).


----------



## technobabble66 (7/7/16)

I'm not part of the organizing, but I reckon it's smart to bring the OTS element as backup. If it's no hassle, of course. It'll be nifty if we need a little more heat in the Mash tun at anytime


----------



## AJ80 (8/7/16)

technobabble66 said:


> I'm not part of the organizing, but I reckon it's smart to bring the OTS element as backup. If it's no hassle, of course. It'll be nifty if we need a little more heat in the Mash tun at anytime


Done - OTS element packed.


----------



## TheWiggman (8/7/16)

whiteferret said:


> 3 new circuits for the brewing.


Love it, commitment to the cause. **** power bills.


----------



## technobabble66 (8/7/16)

He's gonna pay in beers. Feel free to donate :lol:


----------



## AJ80 (10/7/16)

Didn't catch this yesterday...what did the OG of the swap brew end up as? Thanks.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (10/7/16)

1.073, I think?


----------



## technobabble66 (10/7/16)

1.072 is the last reading I looked at. 
I couldn't guarantee what that was a sample of, but I believe it was final reading from the kettle before cubing. 
John, Wayne or Mick might have a better idea, though.


----------



## Grainer (10/7/16)

1.072 I think


----------



## Whiteferret (10/7/16)

Yeah 1.072 ish from the tap just before cubing.


----------



## mofox1 (10/7/16)

whiteferret said:


> Yeah 1.072 ish from the tap just before cubing.


During, actually... 'cos I forgot until we were about halfway thru :lol:.

But yes, that's what the hydro was reporting.


----------



## AJ80 (10/7/16)

Thanks gents.


----------



## technobabble66 (11/7/16)

Cube's Away!!



Little bit of extra trub...


Smelt amazing!!
Fwiw, I think I had ~20L at 1.070


----------



## droid (11/7/16)

thanks Wayne, John and Troy and also everyone for helping. Much appreciated and also thanks to Mike for grabbing me a cube. I hope the money was right Wayne? lemme know if I owe ya

what is the beer? an ESB? I'm a bit confused as to what it is, just thinking about yeast is all


----------



## MastersBrewery (11/7/16)

droid, got some change for you, and cube, keg, and a bottle someone left for you. We'll have to come up with a weekend that suits. Your RIS is awsome btw.


----------



## droid (11/7/16)

You're a champ! If I leave it longer will I end up with more stuff? Hehe, glad you like the RIS. It is changing for the better I think. Yep I'll pm ya re brew.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (11/7/16)

It sounds like if you leave it longer you will end up with NO RIS, [emoji23]


----------



## MastersBrewery (11/7/16)

Empying that keg would take a Yobian effort, and I have to drive most days.


----------



## technobabble66 (12/7/16)

Hey, given Kunfaced didn't show up with the 5kg of med crystal for this, what was the final recipe?

Martin, i think you mentioned you & DJ provided some sort of crystal combo?

So at the mo, i've got:
125kg Perle malt, 2kg Midnight Wheat, + 5kg ......... (?)

And then some hops (how much ended up going in? 450g of Dr Rudi?)


----------



## Grainer (12/7/16)

I think 6kg dark crystal


----------



## droid (12/7/16)

droid said:


> thanks Wayne, John and Troy ..


...er I think you mean Paul


----------



## mofox1 (12/7/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Hey, given Kunfaced didn't show up with the 5kg of med crystal for this, what was the final recipe?
> 
> Martin, i think you mentioned you & DJ provided some sort of crystal combo?
> 
> ...


Dr Rudi (11.3%) - 600g FWH & 300g at ~30min.

Didn't realise we had a grain provider awol... Who the heck brought up 6kg of dark xtal without knowing it would be needed?!! Big ups t'ya. :beerbang:


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (12/7/16)

I brought 2kg dark crystal, so assume there must've been another few kgs kicking about


----------



## MartinOC (12/7/16)

mofox1 said:


> Didn't realise we had a grain provider awol... Who the heck brought up 6kg of dark xtal without knowing it would be needed?!! Big ups t'ya. :beerbang:


Yeah, Kunfaced is hereby named & shamed as someone who promised & didn't deliver (didn't even show-up!). Black-listed. :angry:

I brought-up my personal stash of dark crystal just in case. Lucky I did.



DJ_L3ThAL said:


> I brought 2kg dark crystal, so assume there must've been another few kgs kicking about


Thanks, at least SOMEONE thought to contribute just in case & your contribution was well-received.


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## MastersBrewery (12/7/16)

MartinOC said:


> Yeah, Kunfaced is hereby named & shamed as someone who promised & didn't deliver (didn't even show-up!). Black-listed. :angry:.


If he was squashed by a semi trailer on his way to the swap perhaps we can consider forgiveness?


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## MartinOC (12/7/16)

Perhaps...


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## Yob (12/7/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Empying that keg would take a Yobian effort, and I have to drive most days.


only drink it at night...


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## AJ80 (17/7/16)

Just pitched with a healthy dose of M44 - smelt amazing. Measured 1.070 with my hydro for what it's worth.


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## reardo (20/7/16)

Hey guys, probably not the right place for this question, but i thought id give it a shot.

I want to make a Choc coffee porter. I have a recipe in mind. I plan on adding cocoa for the choc flavour at the end of the boil but i'm not sure on how coffee should be added. Someone has used Expresso shots at the end of the boil, and some steep beans overnight and add to the fermenter 3 days in.

Any suggestions?


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## Grainer (20/7/16)

receipes section


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## technobabble66 (20/7/16)

I'd suggest using Choc malt.
With maybe a little dark sugar or do a caramelisation mini-boil with your first 3L of mash runoff. 
You don't need to use those additives (coffee or cocoa) to get those flavours in the finished beer. The malts and yeasties do magical things to produce them in the beer over fermentation and aging. 

Leave the coffee for your latte, and your chocolate/cocoa for your cake. 

Mmmmmm ... caaake!


If you're super keen to add it, I'd do it either at the end of the boil for both. Or do a 2nd miniboil after most of the fermentation is done and add it when there's a few points left to go. 

Do you bottle and bulk prime? I wonder if you could add your mini boil then, with the bulk priming dex?


Edit: I'm not saying Choc malt produces Choc flavour by itself by the way. It produces more of a roast flavour. But with other stuff produces a chocolatey element


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## VP Brewing (8/8/16)

My swap brew is down to 1.012 after a week using Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley. Has anyone else finished fermenting theirs yet?

Edit: 83% attenuation wtf?


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## AJ80 (8/8/16)

Hello mate,

Took a while to get there, but mine dropped to 1.011 with M44. Dry hopped the other day and is now cold crashing for bottling tomorrow night.


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## VP Brewing (8/8/16)

What hops did you go with AJ?


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## AJ80 (8/8/16)

20g Citra, 25g chinook and 30g Ella as a dry hop. 20g of each also added as a cube hop on the day. You?


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## VP Brewing (9/8/16)

Mine was 50g fuggles, 30g EKG and 30g challenger. Will keg hop if needed.


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## technobabble66 (26/8/16)

Smells reeeeeeeaaaaaally awesome. 

Floral, nectar aroma with a solid malty biscuity element and a certain "earthiness". (Not sure where the earthiness is from -drRudi, challenger, excessive bitterness, or the cubed malts?). 
Flavour similar with a slight caramelly element. Mouthfeel great. Bitterness v high, good but wouldn't want to be higher. 

1469 worked fantastically with this one. 

Excellent result. 

Double thumbs up [emoji106][emoji106]


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## malt junkie (3/9/16)

Mine seems to have stalled @ 1022 using MJ's Work horse yeast, currently sitting @19c, since I know there's at least 10 more points in this I'm going to bump it to 22c and rouse the yeast a bit.

I didn't have O2 for the first time in a long while, just goes to show how much difference it makes.

wish me luck!


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## DJ_L3ThAL (3/9/16)

Used that workhorse yeast before?

It barstardised a DSGA I did a couple years back. Attenuated but stripped heaps of flavour from the wort [emoji15]


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## malt junkie (3/9/16)

No I haven't tried it before, I hope it hasn't stripped out too much, and the kick in temp and rousing get it down to decent attenuation.


Let you know in the coming days.


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## TheWiggman (3/9/16)

I used Workhorse yonks back on a so-called Aussie ale. Fermented at 15°C to try to lager-fy it and it got down to 1.018 I think and wouldn't go further. Pitched at 22°C if that means anything. Tasted ok, but FG was too high which ruined it.


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## malt junkie (3/9/16)

yeah My issue is I have nothing on hand to pitch or pitch it onto. The beer pipe line has been empty for a few months. :huh: And the nearest brew shop 100k's away. I'm just going to have to suck it and see. :blink: What ever happens I'll bring a bottle to the next swap.


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## Curly79 (3/9/16)

I fermented mine with US05 and keg hopped with Citra, Mosaic and Chinook. Very Dark and definitely getting the earthy taste your talking about Techno. Great beer. Cheers [emoji481]


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## AJ80 (3/9/16)

Mine finished at 1.011 and has carbed up nicely in the bottle. Very happy with this - cheers to the Brewers!


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## VP Brewing (3/9/16)

Mine got to 1.011 using wyeast 1275 that had been frozen for 12 months. Not sure if I stressed the yeast a bit during the stepping up but it threw off huge 'Belgian' like flavour and aroma. Been in the keg for 3 weeks with some EKG in a stocking and is really mellowing out now.


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## VP Brewing (3/9/16)

Dubbel post


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## technobabble66 (3/9/16)

Fwiw, I diluted mine down to 25L at OG=1.058 (this included 250g of aromatic/toffee malt into the cube). It was meant to hit 1.016 using 1469 with an attenuation of 69%. However, ended up at FG=1.012. 

Just polished off another. Another double thumbs up. Great drop! [emoji482]


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## Curly79 (16/9/16)

Been in the keg for about a month now, that earthiness is mellowing and it's gone from being a beer that I was trying to like to a beer that I really do like. [emoji481][emoji481]


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## MartinOC (16/9/16)

Nice, simple recipe, well-executed.

I'll be over in 5 minutes. Have a glass ready....


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## Curly79 (16/9/16)

Ok. Done. Very happy with it.


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## AJ80 (16/9/16)

Curly79 said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1474013627.322301.jpg
> Been in the keg for about a month now, that earthiness is mellowing and it's gone from being a beer that I was trying to like to a beer that I really do like. [emoji481][emoji481]


Can only agree with you there mate. Very happy with this one.


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## Curly79 (16/9/16)

Still not sure what we are calling it? English IPA? English/American IPA?


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## MartinOC (16/9/16)

Curly79 said:


> Ok. Done. Very happy with it.


I was kidding. Maybe a quiet-one sometime this weekend?



Curly79 said:


> Still not sure what we are calling it? English IPA? English/American IPA?


It was deliberately designed so folks could do whatever they wanted with it & call it whatever they want. Blank canvas, depending on what hops you add to it & when, what yeast, fermentation profile...etc...etc...

Call it what you want to call it...


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## MartinOC (16/9/16)

Let's just call it "The Ale of Everywhere" after my favourite piece of music.

Obscure - probably only Mardoo will get the reference....


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## DJ_L3ThAL (25/3/17)

Slack me here - will be pitching 2x mangrove jacks west coast ale packs into this (I went the American IPA route with my cube). Looking forward to it being my first ferment of 2017.


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