# Can Whirlfloc go off / impart off flavours?



## CapnK (20/5/14)

My first 3 AG brews have all had an aftertaste that wasn't overpowering, but it masks the hops, and wasn't meant to be there. It's not instantly identifiable as buttery or green apples, or any of the other descriptions. Even the LHBS couldn't put a finger on it.

The batches have been a mixed bag of success, one went fairly straight forward, the other two either mashed high or ended up with a leaky chiller.
I fermeted/bottled batch 1 & 3, and they had similar taste coming out of the fermenter, despite being different reciepes and different f**k ups. Batch 2 was fermented elsewhere, and kegged + bottled, but has similar issue.

Meanwhile my mate (topher) using much the same gear has had better success.

So, I was thinking about what was the same for my brews and different for his. And Whirlfloc stood out as one of the few things consistent in my batches and not in his at all.

1 - Fat Yak clone
Mashed high, cubed, pitched with rehydrated US05
Bottled

2 - Fat Yak clone
Used carbon filtered water, brewed at a different house (same Sydney water Dam probably). 
Mashed at 65-66, cubed (different cube), fermeted at topher's place (different FV/fridge)
Some kegged and some bottled

3 - DSGA 
Mashed at 64-67, diluted with chiller water though, pitched with rehydrated US05 in same FV as first batch
Bottled


Don't really have time/money for changing one variable at a time, so yesterday I skipped the Whirlfloc, used a new FV, checked the chiller wasn't leaking  and just sprinkled the yeast.

Time will tell if this 4th batch works out, but I wondered if anyone else had issues from Whirlfloc.


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## manticle (20/5/14)

I never have. I doubt it's the whirlfloc.
I use it every brew.

What is the actual issue? Can you describe it in more detail? How old is the whirlfloc?


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## Crusty (20/5/14)

I don't believe the whirlfloc has anything to do with it. I use it every brew & no issues at all.
When are you tossing it into the boil, 10-15mins from the end?


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## CapnK (20/5/14)

@crusty: Yep, goes in 10-15 minutes from the end.

@manticle : Don't know how old it is. Came repackaged with LHBS logo etc. I tested one this morning and it still fizzed in boiling water.

I'm useless at describing flavours, best I can come up with is a bit old and organic. Others have said menthol or ginger ( I did a ginger batch earlier, hence the test of fermenting one batch in a different FV, and getting a new one)
Tried to be careful about oxidisation and it's different hops (which appeared to be stored well, and in any case my mate buys from the same shop)

With so many (different) reasons these batches could be screwed, I was surprised by how similar they tasted. Hence looking for the similarities.
And I don't doubt that Whirlfloc is fin 99% of the time, just wondering if I found that 1%...


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## MichaelM (20/5/14)

Are you rinsing your equipment well after using any cleaners? Pbw gave me taste problems.


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## Topher (20/5/14)

Pink cleaner?. Until last week I didn't use the pink stuff. It's chlorinated, and stinks. Maybe it's that?

Or perhaps I'm just slightly more awesome than you OP.


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## Topher (20/5/14)

Ok. The Flavour in my words: 

Smells sweet, like really malty...almost like wort (it is properly attenuated though) - but flavour is tart, bitter and acidic. (proper top of the mouth feel acidic, like cola or a super lightly roasted coffee). 

No nice malt or hop flavours. 

There is also a Herby flavour that I cannot put my finger on. 

It's definitely beer, it looks like nice beer and has a nice body and texture on the tongue ..... but the aromas don't match what fills your mouth at all.

I'll have another tomorrow night and try and explain better.


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## SnakeDoctor (20/5/14)

water additions?


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## manticle (20/5/14)

Sweet and acidic sounds infected.
Water additions would have to be pretty drastic with Melbourne water to pull those flavors. What FG are you hitting?


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## bradsbrew (20/5/14)

To me sounds like poor yeast health.


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## zappa (20/5/14)

I've always been able to detect a minty/menthol flavour in beer that's been chilled, left in the sun for a short period of time then chilled again. Friends claim they can't taste it. So, perhaps it's been fermented too warm, or otherwise exposed to heat or light?


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## CapnK (20/5/14)

manticle said:


> Sweet and acidic sounds infected.
> Water additions would have to be pretty drastic with Melbourne water to pull those flavors. What FG are you hitting?


Sydney water, specifically Woronora dam, no additions.
FG's have around 1012.

Thought I rinsed well enough after the PSR, but one batch went through a cube and FV that haven't seen PSR...

For $2.50 or whatever, I think I'll get a new pack of tablets. And go back to waiting patiently for batch 4 to see how it turns out.


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## SnakeDoctor (20/5/14)

Did you guys brew the same beers?

The taste description is quite similar to how i'd describe my lighter coloured beers (including DSGA) before I added to the water.


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## CapnK (20/5/14)

I brewed all the dodgy batches (two Fat Yaks and one DSGA), but topher fermented one of the FY's for me. He's successfully done a couple of DSGA's and others.

If my second DSGA batch is similar, I think water additions might be on the list to investigate.

@zappa, fermented in the fridge at 17-18 deg or stored under the house, which is cool and out of the sunlight.


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## manticle (21/5/14)

CapnK said:


> Sydney water, specifically Woronora dam, no additions.
> FG's have around 1012.
> Thought I rinsed well enough after the PSR, but one batch went through a cube and FV that haven't seen PSR...
> For $2.50 or whatever, I think I'll get a new pack of tablets. And go back to waiting patiently for batch 4 to see how it turns out.


Apologies.
I read Richmond in another thread and confuzzled the two.


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## TheWiggman (21/5/14)

The other common thing here is the brew rig. What are you using as sealants? I used a liquid sealant on my fittings and the crap got stuck in my hoses. It resulted in a similar flavour to what's described. 
Otherwise there may be (maybe) something sitting in a nook or cranny which is getting into the final product. See how you go with this latest batch then reevaluate.


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## Topher (21/5/14)

BIAB, Urn with exposed element and a false bottom. Straight into cube or cooled and pitched. So, Only common element is urn, or the batch of Nelson hops,or whirlfloc, or cleaning routine..... or perhaps capnk just has filthy germs on his person that are getting into the beer.


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## flano (21/5/14)

don't use the whirlfloc.

I have forgotten to use it, and to be honest I couldn't tell the difference in the end.

That will discount that theory one way or the other.


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## bjay (21/5/14)

I went to a allgrain brew demo a while ago
The fella said taste everything that goes into the beer before you put it in
And if you dont like the taste dont put it in
By the way have you ever tasted wirfloc tablets ?

B


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## manticle (21/5/14)

So drink some yeast, chew on a hop pellet, have a teaspoon of yeast nutrient, that kind of thing?


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## bjay (21/5/14)

manticle said:


> So drink some yeast, chew on a hop pellet, have a teaspoon of yeast nutrient, that kind of thing?


Yeah now you gettin it


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## gap (21/5/14)

Hello bjay,

How did you go chewing on the hop pellet???


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## bjay (21/5/14)

Okay have a smell at wirfloc it smells just lovely does it not , unlike hops,yeast and not sure about nutrient as i dont use it
,, I do chew hop pellets just bite a tiny bit off not the whole pellet ,
But wirfloc i dont taste anymore because i stopped using it ,
Correct me if i am wrong but isnt it made from seaweed wirfloc that is

B


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## CapnK (21/5/14)

Oh dear, I've accidentally religious debate...

The experiment of brewing without is already in the fermenter. But it won't be definitive and won't stop me trying whirlfloc or similar in future. 
Although I will get a new pack and attempt to check the usevy date first, seems it may have a 2 year shelf life - http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/questions/6376/whirfloc-shelf-life-and-use

not sure I subscribe to the 'taste it in isolation' theory. I don't like olives by themselves, but will eat them on pizza as part of the combined taste.


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## SnakeDoctor (21/5/14)

DSGA seems to me to be a bit more forgiving of Sydney water than other lighter beers, not sure why.


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## pist (21/5/14)

It wont be the whirlfloc. I put a whole tab in every batch as i find it an absolute pita to cut them. Even did with a lager i recently did...no contribution to "off flavours"


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## manticle (21/5/14)

As far as I know, Sydney water is quite soft but may be disinfected with chloramines. They can create medicinal and band-aid like flavours.


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## bjay (28/6/14)

capt

How did your brew go without whirfloc , did it come out any different ??

B


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## CapnK (1/7/14)

Bjay

I cracked one over dinner tonight, and it wasn't light years better.
So that seems to rule out my original Whirlfloc line of theory.

Mash ph/calcium sulfate are next up on the list to try.


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