# White Rabbit Dark Ale Recipe



## Matt89

Went up to White Rabbit on Sunday to enjoy a few of their Dark Ales and look at how they do things, managed to squeeze the basic recipe/ingredients out of one of the brewers and this is what I have come up with

Anybody know where Pacifica is available at the moment? G&G don't seem to list it?

Cheers


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 32.07 l
Post Boil Volume: 27.23 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 21.60 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 44.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 40.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.00 g Calcium Chloride Water Agent 1 - 
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) Water Agent 2 - 
4.73 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 3 90.0 % 
0.26 kg Carafa III (1034.2 EBC) Grain 4 5.0 % 
0.26 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC) Grain 5 5.0 % 
25.42 g Super Alpha [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 34.7 IBUs 
5.08 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 1.5 IBUs 
5.08 g Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 1.5 IBUs 
5.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 1.0 IBUs 
5.00 g Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 1.0 IBUs 
5.08 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 0.6 IBUs 
5.08 g Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 0.6 IBUs 
5.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 13 0.0 IBUs 
5.00 g Pacifica [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs 
15.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs 


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.25 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Dough In Add 35.29 l of water at 69.1 C 66.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add -0.00 l of water and heat to 75.0 C 75.0 C 10 min


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## pyrosx

Looks pretty good - there are a couple of other threads around that detail ingredients, and i think you've pretty much included everything mentioned.

This one is going into the "to be brewed soonish" list  Any chance I could grab the .bsmx file from you?


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## Acasta

Looks like a good recipe. As for the hops, Pacifica is also know as Pcific Hallertau so try looking for that.
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1014

I think Ill brew something like this soon. What were the details they gave you and what did you make up? Thanks.


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## QldKev

From my understanding this recipe is wrong :huh: 

Read http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=36063 for the correct one


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## Matt89

They change it time to time this is what I was told from the horses mouth


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## Matt89

pyrosx said:


> Looks pretty good - there are a couple of other threads around that detail ingredients, and i think you've pretty much included everything mentioned.
> 
> This one is going into the "to be brewed soonish" list  Any chance I could grab the .bsmx file from you?


No worries once I'm back on the computer I'll send it through


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## Matt89

Acasta said:


> Looks like a good recipe. As for the hops, Pacifica is also know as Pcific Hallertau so try looking for that.
> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1014
> 
> I think Ill brew something like this soon. What were the details they gave you and what did you make up? Thanks.



They told me the malts (had the bags sitting on the floor) told me the percentages of the grist, told me cascade and pacifica for flavor and super alpha for bittering on the day they were putting whole cascade hop flowers into the beer when u bought the glass, hence I'm thinking dry hop with cascade
After bittering the additions are my own, that's about all I have made up


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## pyrosx

QldKev said:


> From my understanding this recipe is wrong :huh:
> 
> Read http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=36063 for the correct one



There are a *LOT* of recipes in that thread, and none of them seem to be definitive - are there any in particular you're referring to?


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## QldKev

pyrosx said:


> There are a *LOT* of recipes in that thread, and none of them seem to be definitive - are there any in particular you're referring to?




I'm not allowed to say... but at that point of time, the true recipe is mixed in there (not posted by me)

Sticklebract is a good hop for finishing it, and use the real yeast


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## Matt89

QldKev said:


> I'm not allowed to say... but at that point of time, the true recipe is mixed in there (not posted by me)



Oooo the plot thickens...


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## QldKev

Matt89 said:


> Oooo the plot thickens...




I'm don't 100% know today, I can only kinda comment around that time if ya know what I mean. But 0% Pacifica


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## Matt89

Pacifa is 100% there, they had it on a tasting table stating it was used in the dark ale...?


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## Aus_Rider_22

QldKev said:


> I'm not allowed to say... but at that point of time, the true recipe is mixed in there (not posted by me)
> 
> Sticklebract is a good hop for finishing it, and use the real yeast



That's what I have been told as well. Sticklebract late.


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## pyrosx

QldKev said:


> I'm not allowed to say... but at that point of time, the true recipe is mixed in there (not posted by me)



That's rubbish.. if it's already out in public, what harm are you doing by pointing others toward it? If it was actual "inside information" that hadn't been made public, then your comment is fair enough - but it's not, so it isn't.


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## Malted

Here's my summary of the other thread:



Kai said:


> There is definitely _more than one base malt and one specialty malt_, and the _bottling yeast is the same strain as the primary_.





Jimmeh said:


> This would be my attempt:
> Not sure on the colour or the IBU's... might be around 30ibu's?
> 
> *White Rabbit Clone*
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.052
> Colour (SRM): 16.2 (~30 EBC)
> Bitterness (IBU): 25
> 
> 87% Pale Ale Malt
> 10% Munich I
> 3% Carafa I malt
> 
> 0.7 g/l Super Alpha (Leaf) (12% Alpha) @ 90 Minutes (Boil)
> 0.5 g/l Cascade (Leaf,NZ/Tassie) (7.8% Alpha) @ whirlpool
> 0.5 g/l Stickebract (Leaf) (14% Alpha) @ whirlpool
> 
> Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes
> Fermented at 18c with Wyeast 1187 - Ringwood Ale OR cultured up bottle yeast





Kai said:


> That'd be a pretty good guess, though I'd double the colour.
> Other thoughts...
> - Yes _more than a touch of crystal_ would be appropriate.
> - Some relatively heavy hopping in the beer really accentuates what _would otherwise be quite a moderate roastiness_.
> - _Culture some yeast up from a 6-pack_ if you want the brewery strain! Otherwise just choose your favourite English ale yeast.



There was some mention of raspberries and someone suggested Bramling Cross.



Kai said:


> I reckon most of those clone recipes would hit reasonably close to the mark. So long as it tastes like what you aim for then it's a job well done, whether you use different hops, malt or raspberries.
> For a good fresh rabbit though I'd suggest a little dry hopping, and maybe a variety you wouldn't expect



_On culturing the bottled yeast:_


Kai said:


> There's heaps of yeast in there, over 0.5 million cells per mL!
> No need to leave your fermenter 'open', at home the fermentation dynamics in such a small vessel do not matter and when I've used this yeast in a 60L fermenter I have just treated it as any normal ferment.
> But, do _treat it like a good English ale yeast_ should be treated. Aerate well and give it regular rousing during fermentation.





Kai said:


> I'd suggest some crystal malts in there too, a small but not inconsiderable _part of the colour contribution is from a mix of crystals_.


 See below:

I reckon Screwtops's grainbill would go close but I am not convinced about the carapils. 2 base malts - check, 2 spec malts - hmm, mix of crystals - check. Given Kai's comments, maybe not dark enough either.



Screwtop said:


> This is what's happening this week
> Batch Size: 47.00 L
> Boil Size: 58.63 L
> Boil Time: 90
> Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
> Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
> Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.21 %
> Estimated Color: 22.1 SRM
> Estimated IBU: 41.4 IBU
> Bitterness Ratio: 0.767
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 82.00 %
> 
> 75.00% Pale Malt, (Joe White)
> 12.00% Munich, Dark
> 5.00% Carafa II
> 3.00% Cara-Pils
> 2.50% Crystal - Simpsons (Dark)
> 2.50% Crystal - Simpsons (Pale)
> 35 IBU Super Alpha (90 min) hops
> 1g/l Cascade (15 min) hops
> 2 Whitelabs WLP022
> 1g/l Sticklebract (Flowers) (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
> 
> Mash
> Water adjustment 120ppm CaSO4
> Mash-in/Saccharification 75 min @ 66.0 C
> Mash Out 10 min @ 77.0 C



I too went into WRB and was fortunate to have a quick chat with Kai, he's a good bloke. They were whirlpooling a Dark Ale at the time, it smelt great. He told me what hops they were using, just wish I could remember what he said! My faded memory is suggesting three varieties.


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## Matt89

They make it to 45IBU horses mouth


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## super_simian

Well I'm sure the recipe changes from time to time, so what was correct 6months ago might not be anymore. A few months ago I had trouble culturing the yeast, and was told they moved to a lager yeast for bottle conditioning; can anyone confirm or deny? Finally, when I was there, probably over a year ago now, there where a few sacks of malto-dextrin kicking about. I'm not saying they *use* them, just that they were there...


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## QldKev

pyrosx said:


> That's rubbish.. if it's already out in public, what harm are you doing by pointing others toward it? If it was actual "inside information" that hadn't been made public, then your comment is fair enough - but it's not, so it isn't.





So your making up my mind for me for what is right and wrong, who the **** are you?

This is the way I was told to talk about it when I was informed on the source, and I support their decision.


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## pyrosx

QldKev said:


> So your making up my mind for me for what is right and wrong, who the **** are you?
> 
> This is the way I was told to talk about it when I was informed on the source, and I support their decision.



I'm the guy pointing out that it's a bit rough of you to emphatically say "that recipe is wrong", and then vaguely point at a thread with 30 recipes in it as proof of that statement, without any further clarification

I'm not actually saying that *you're* trying to make yourself appear special because you have "inside information" not available to the rest of us by being cagey about it... but that might be how it appears to others


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## QldKev

pyrosx said:


> I'm the guy pointing out that it's a bit rough of you to emphatically say "that recipe is wrong", and then vaguely point at a thread with 30 recipes in it as proof of that statement, without any further clarification
> 
> I'm not actually saying that *you're* trying to make yourself appear special because you have "inside information" not available to the rest of us by being cagey about it... but that might be how it appears to others



I'm not actually saying that *you're* a tool because of how your pushing this... but that might be how it appears to others.



There is no way I'm going to say more than what I've been told to say and where.

So as not to make myself sound special in the future, even if I have knowledge about recipes I will not mention it. Go make the recipe how you want too.


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## dig

I was asked if I cared to comment on this thread. As a matter of fact, I don't care! However:

Recipes must change over time. If they don't, the beers can only get worse. Raw materials change seasonally, and if you're not constantly tweaking, adjusting or even making complete changes to ingredients or processes, you're going backwards. That's what happened at Malt Shovel: Lock it in Eddie and just keep doing it the same. Kai and the team at WR are great brewers and I have absolutely no doubt that recipe changes have been to the benefit of the beer. I'd love to bowl up there one day for a fresh pint as I reckon it would be bloody excellent. A good take-home message for home brewers: keep tweaking, keep adjusting, keep going forward. Developing a great beer is far more rewarding than jagging it on your first and only attempt.

And how's life as a brewer in Canada? Bloody good actually! Check out Lighthouse Brewing on Untappd for a list of the great brews I get to play with. Good times. :icon_cheers:


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## QldKev

Thanks for the clarification. I'd better get tweaking. I don't feel so bad having 10 different version of my house MIDAPA now.


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## Screwtop

Thanks Dean,

Had a look over at Untapped, Chuck H has been busy doing a little research  

Screwy


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## dig

Has he now! The master turns student! Don't freak out Chuck, but you'll need to bypass the filter and the pasteuriser.


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## wessmith

Hi Dean, great to see your Canadian adventure is bearing fruit. All the best, Wes


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## Lodan

Malted said:


> Here's my summary of the other thread:



So I took Malted's summary, a mixture of the attempts by other brewers and then made my own white rabbit

Boy is it off but boy is it fantastic! :chug: 
I brew with a 19L pot and on this occasion my make up water was less than it should have been. The result is something darker and a little more hoppier/bitter than the standard WR dark ale.
It could be compared to a slightly milder black ipa; black pale ale anybody? :icon_cheers:


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## Kai

Just a note, there is no longer any primary strain yeast in bottles of the dark ale. So for those of you hoping to culture up something from the dregs of a sixer... I'm sorry.

Furthering my past suggestions for how to brew this... you need a mix of crystal malts (without ending up too sweet), nothing too roasty on the dark malt, some munich and some wheat won't go astray... through the brewhouse definitely Pacifica / Hallertau Pacific and some locally grown Cascade. Dry hopping is a nice medley but it is also quite gentle so feel free to choose what you will. There's a real dark-horse aroma hop in the dry hopping though


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## DarkFaerytale

thanks for the heads up Kai i was seriously about to buy a sixer for just that reason next week. still might for the beer though 

so are we thinking ringwood ale yeast?

cheers

-Phill


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## Screwtop

My latest is the closest I've come yet on all fronts but colour, tasted side by side it's there but a tiny bit darker that the LWB version. 

Simpson Crystals a little flaked wheat, whirlpooled with sticklebract @ 80C for 20 min. Fermented using WLP022, finally. Still a touch green, need to cc it for a few weeks for the yeastiness to go. 

Well happy.

Screwy


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## Midnight Brew

I made a variatation of this based on this thread and failed on colour and was a bit too roasty. None the less ended up fantastic American Brown but would half the carafa special next time. I think I had it at 6% of the grain bill. I also french pressed a generous amount of cascade and super alpha but for me it didnt come through enough. Great time of year to be drinking it too.


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## Acasta

Now we can't use the bottle strain, any wyeast alternatives to WLP022?


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## Danwood

Midnight Brew said:


> I made a variatation of this based on this thread and failed on colour and was a bit too roasty. None the less ended up fantastic American Brown but would half the carafa special next time. I think I had it at 6% of the grain bill. I also french pressed a generous amount of cascade and super alpha but for me it didnt come through enough. Great time of year to be drinking it too.




Define generous please Mid ?

26g of each too much ? I'm going for Summit, not Super A though.

Having my first crack at dry hopping an APA.

23L in the FV and 37 IBUs at present.

Many thanks, Dan


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## Midnight Brew

Danwood said:


> Define generous please Mid ?
> 
> 26g of each too much ? I'm going for Summit, not Super A though.
> Having my first crack at dry hopping an APA.
> 23L in the FV and 37 IBUs at present.
> 
> Many thanks, Dan



I had half n half 30g of each cascade and super alpha in 44L and not gonna french press next time just boil it up in a pot and dump it all in. Also going to add a whirlpool addition and adjust the FWH down to keep it at 40IBU. Im still new to all of this but tasted a few batches now that are missing those key flavour and aroma additions and think i've sorted it out. 

Im thinking the super alpha was heavily masked by the 6% carafa special. Still was a great beer but could be massively improved. 

26g would be fine if not a bit more. Let us know how it turns out.


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## Danwood

Ok, will do.


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## Screwtop

Screwtop said:


> My latest is the closest I've come yet on all fronts but colour, tasted side by side it's there but a tiny bit darker that the LWB version.
> 
> Simpson Crystals a little flaked wheat, whirlpooled with sticklebract @ 80C for 20 min. Fermented using WLP022, finally. Still a touch green, need to cc it for a few weeks for the yeastiness to go.
> 
> Well happy.
> 
> Screwy




Now........................Yummmmmmmmmmm!!!!

Love this one, fermented one with 1084.......mmmmeeeehhhhhh! The one fermented using WLP022 is just fantastic.....

Screwy


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## Acasta

Screwtop said:


> Now........................Yummmmmmmmmmm!!!!
> 
> Love this one, fermented one with 1084.......mmmmeeeehhhhhh! The one fermented using WLP022 is just fantastic.....
> 
> Screwy



Screwy or anyone else,
How long do you find this one takes from grain to glass to come good? Being a darker beer I'm assuming it need a bit of time on it?


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## Xarb

Screwtop said:


> Now........................Yummmmmmmmmmm!!!!
> 
> Love this one, fermented one with 1084.......mmmmeeeehhhhhh! The one fermented using WLP022 is just fantastic.....
> 
> Screwy


Do you have an updated recipe for this one? I have been meaning to make your older recipe from the other thread for ages and was just about to order the grain when I saw this post. Would love to have a crack at your latest recipe!


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## Screwtop

Acasta said:


> Screwy or anyone else,
> How long do you find this one takes from grain to glass to come good? Being a darker beer I'm assuming it need a bit of time on it?




Cleaned up a beer of show with one of mine. The longer the better a couple of months min. Bloody beautiful beer.

Screwy


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## mfeighan

hey screwy do you have an updated version of your recipe. Will have a crack next weekend


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## tiprya

Screwy is on the right track.

Heard from a White rabbit guy that the yeast is WLP022 - Essex ale for the dark ale and Wy3522 for the White ale.

Thanks Kai for the recipe tips, I'm thinking of making something similar at some stage.


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## slash22000




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