# Are WLP-001 and US-05/1056 the same strain?



## Fat Bastard (21/6/13)

Got another beer (US Amber Ale) that's finished well above predicted FG. Should have been somewhere between 1.008 and 1.014, but finished at 1.018 and wouldn't drop, even after pitching some dried US-05 onto the WLP-001.

As it's one of the very few brews I haven't dry hopped, the yeast is prime for harvesting without needing to separate it from the hop trub.

If I harvest the yeast from the fermenter, can I still call it WLP-001, and use it as such?

Cheers,

FB.


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## Yob (21/6/13)

Why would you want to keep it if it didn't do its job?

I onlyckeep and re use exceptional performers


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## squirt in the turns (21/6/13)

I'd be interested to hear the answer to the title question. However, if your beer didn't attenuate properly, the health and viability of the yeast (either the US-05 or the WLP001) might be to blame and therefore the yeast might not be a prime candidate for harvest, hop bits or no.

Dangit, Yob beat me. He clearly didn't take the time to proofread.


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## Judanero (21/6/13)

IMO same same... Question on the readings (not being a smart arse just a question) have you checked the calibration of your hydrometer against tap water at ~20 degrees c? If you have- disregard, if not-can throw out your readings..

Cheers


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## Fat Bastard (21/6/13)

I'm pretty certain it's not the yeast that's the problem here. The WLP-001 was recultured into a 2 litre starter, which should have been plenty for the 1.056 wort. If it wasn't the packet of US-05 would have dropped it the rest of the way. Historically I get over 80% apparent attenuation, but in the this instance, it's in the low 70's, so only slightly lower than Brewmate predicts. I mashed this one with a sacc. rest of 68 degrees, which is higher than I normally use, so I have no data to rely on.


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## bum (22/6/13)

With generational change, would you normally expect the _exact_ same performance anyway?

But seriously, if you're even remotely concerned just buy some fresh yeast. Is it even worth worrying about? The savings that are trditionally presented in relation to yeast re-use are ridiculously over-stated. "I saved $0.20 per pint by re-using the yeast from the previous batch, darl. Can I buy a hop rocket?"

[EDIT: removed _hilarious_ typo]


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## Nick JD (22/6/13)

I often get better attenuation from reused trub 2nd and 3rd gen.


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## A3k (22/6/13)

What's the recipe we're talking about? What was the OG and mash temp?
I don't use Brewmate, but it may not take mash temp into account.

Thanks,


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## Yob (22/6/13)

What was the recipe for this beer that won't drop below 1018? It may not be a problem with the yeast..


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## Bribie G (22/6/13)

Low attenuation is more often than not due to the mash. It only takes a thermometer to be four or five degrees out, to get a FG of 1020 rather than the expected 1010 - plus the other way around of course.


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## Fat Bastard (22/6/13)

Thanks for the helpful replies. Not to worried about forking out for new yeast, but I'd rather not have to drive to get it. I'm lazy, not tight
The yeast I used is 3rd gen WLP-001. The previous generation slammed a 1.079 Red IIPA with over 10% crystal to 1.008, which is an AA of close to 90%. It should be healthy enough, although this brew is the first I've done from the new generation, which was washed out of a 1.050 APA.

I cross check the temp on the HERMS outlet with a digital stick thermometer in the mash. Normally the mash temp lags about 1 degree behind the HERMS, so I guess that rules that out. The ferment seemed normal this time too, signs of fermentation after about 4 hours, and a slightly smaller than usual krausen within 24hr. Fridge temps seem ok. I normally start at 17 and ramp to 22 over 4 days. The cold ambient temp means it's relying on the heat belt, rather than cooling. The temp seems to bounce around more when on the belt, but not more than 1 degree, and it settles after a few hours.

The recipe is based on Jamil's Amber-Red Ale from beerdujour.com

My recipe is as follows. Used 86%AA, as that's what I got on the last brew of similar gravity with this yeast. Plugging in 69% gives me what I actually got.

*American Amber #1*
American Amber Ale

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.825
Total Hops (g): 66.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.057 (°P): 14.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.008 (°P): 2.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.42 %
Colour (SRM): 16.5 (EBC): 32.5
Bitterness (IBU): 38.6 (Rager - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 87
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
3.500 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (72.54%)
0.400 kg Carared (8.29%)
0.400 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (8.29%)
0.200 kg Carapils (Dextrine) (4.15%)
0.200 kg Crystal 120 (4.15%)
0.125 kg Chocolate (2.59%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
14.0 g Columbus Pellet (15% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
13.0 g Cascade Pellet (6.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
13.0 g Centennial Pellet (9.9% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.6 g/L)
13.0 g Cascade Pellet (6.4% Alpha) @ -10 Minutes (Aroma/Whirlpool) (0.6 g/L)
13.0 g Centennial Pellet (9.9% Alpha) @ -10 Minutes (Aroma/Whirlpool) (0.6 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------
2.0 g Calcium Chloride @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
2.0 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
2.5 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 0 Minutes (Mash)
1.8 g Calcium Chloride @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.8 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
2.3 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
4.0 g Brewbrite @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
4.0 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
7.5 g Polyclar @ 1 Days (Secondary)

step mash 52/10, 68/60,72/10,78/10
Fermented at 18°C with WLP001 - California Ale

*Notes*
----------------
6/9/2013 10:16:33 AM : Adjusted for No-Chill to allow for long rest before whirlpooling etc.
Hop additions calculated on extra 2l volume to allow for unhopped starter

Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## Nick JD (22/6/13)

Your mash is very warm. Add a 62C rest for 15 minutes and it'll drop 5-10 points more FG.


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## Bribie G (22/6/13)

I reckon that 68° rest was the one that did it.


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## Fat Bastard (22/6/13)

Thanks guys. Do I make the 62 rest as part of the sacc rest , 52/10, 62/15, 68/45, 72/10, 78/10?


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## manticle (22/6/13)

Yep. beta amylase (maltose) and alpha amylase (dextrins) are targetted separately in that mash regime. Should still get full body but better attenuation.

What's the magnesium for?


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## Fat Bastard (22/6/13)

Mg is there for my ignorance. I now know better. Next beer is Mg free
Thanks Manticle for the explanation!


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## Bribie G (22/6/13)

Manticle always maintains that there's enough Mg in the grain. Would tend to agree but I have this flogging great box of Epsom Salts I bought off Aldi........................

Also if you are one of the significant percentage of the population who suffer from extrasystole, (intermittent double heart beat - harmless but annoying) an increased intake of Mg is beneficial. Never get it when I'm home drinking my ales but sometimes get attacks when I'm travelling, staying in motels and drinking pub beers.


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## A3k (22/6/13)

I agree with everyone else about the 68C causing the high FG.

The recipe you've based yours on is kinda similar to Jamils recipies in Brewing Classic Styles. From memory, i've had issues with getting the FG to the levels in the recipe before, and i don't think i mashed at 68 like he suggests.

The link you gave didn't give an estimated FG, however his book has to amber ale recipes. AAA1: OG 1052 FG 1013 mashed at 67... AAA2: 1.067 FG 1.015 mashed at 67.

not sure if this info is useful to you or not though


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## manticle (22/6/13)

Bribie G said:


> Manticle always maintains that there's enough Mg in the grain. Would tend to agree but I have this flogging great box of Epsom Salts I bought off Aldi........................
> 
> Also if you are one of the significant percentage of the population who suffer from extrasystole, (intermittent double heart beat - harmless but annoying) an increased intake of Mg is beneficial. Never get it when I'm home drinking my ales but sometimes get attacks when I'm travelling, staying in motels and drinking pub beers.



Do some weight training or other exercise that makes you sore then have a hot bath loaded with epsom.

Or save it for when you suffer constipation.


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## JDW81 (22/6/13)

manticle said:


> Or save it for when you suffer constipation.


Or just give yourself a good clean out. Nothing like a bout of salts-induced osmotic diarrhoea.


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## Fat Bastard (22/6/13)

A3k said:


> I agree with everyone else about the 68C causing the high FG.
> 
> The recipe you've based yours on is kinda similar to Jamils recipies in Brewing Classic Styles. From memory, i've had issues with getting the FG to the levels in the recipe before, and i don't think i mashed at 68 like he suggests.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is useful, thanks!
If I had some idea of the predicted FG in the original recipe, I possibly wouldn't have panicked! 

I've learned quite a bit from this thread, except no-one has answered the now kind of irrelevant question in the OP. Maybe I should pm a mod to change the title to reflect the contents a little better!


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## Yob (22/6/13)

Getting 10 answers that dont relate to the OP yet still (kinda) get what you need?

Totes AHB


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