# Selling Your Favourite Brew To Mates Etc. How To Do?



## grinder (12/12/07)

Hi Fellow brewers.
I have come up with some killer recipe's and reccon I could flog em off to my mates (& strangers) for a tidy profit. 
It would be a win-win. Making around 50% profit per bottle. 
It will be a much cheaper alternative for people to purchase from me than the local liquor shop and there should be repeat business, given the savings. The only problem is the law.
So how do you go about selling your best brews for profit whilst dodging the law??? 
All (non-conformist)l sugestions welcome
Cheers


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## paulwin (12/12/07)

grinder said:


> Hi Fellow brewers.
> I have come up with some killer recipe's and reccon I could flog em off to my mates (& strangers) for a tidy profit.
> It would be a win-win. Making around 50% profit per bottle.
> It will be a much cheaper alternative for people to purchase from me than the local liquor shop and there should be repeat business, given the savings. The only problem is the law.
> ...


 shhhhh


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## wimbymoonshine (12/12/07)

well its illegal and i dont do it.
But i love brewing and to help me get through the bottles quickly i have a tin in my house that my flatmates donate to which helps me buy more ingredients and equipment. Its a win win situation for everyone... i get to brew more and they reap the fruits of my labour!


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## Gerard_M (12/12/07)

Probably best that you don't go advertising your intentions over the internet.
Cheers
Gerard


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## goatherder (12/12/07)

I assume you've checked the moderation guidelines grinder and you have confirmed that what you are proposing is legal in the country you are in. It certainly isn't in Australia. If you were suggesting something which was illegal then expect the moderators to delete your post.


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## pb unleaded (12/12/07)

Give the beer for free and charge a deposit for bottles. 
Of course you'd have to give the money back once they are returned.


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## paulwin (12/12/07)

i will also be placing a donation tin on top of the kegerator just haven't got around to it yet


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## phonos (12/12/07)

or you could just get your mates to buy all your ingredients and you can give them 'some' of the beer you make with it back.


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## PostModern (12/12/07)

The legal way is to apply for a brewers license, an excise license, etc. There is a thread about the topic here: click.

"Dodging the law" is not something we do here on AHB, although wimbymoonshine's suggestion is probably the best one. "Donations towards ingredients" in an honour box sounds pretty grey *this is not legal advice*.

Don't try and make money from homebrew because:

1. It makes you look like a coniver
2. It gives the craft a bad name
3. You could end up in court/jail


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## recharge (12/12/07)

Sell them the wort and tell them to ferment there own.

Rich


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## dr K (12/12/07)

*ekin*....just don't do it


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## paulwin (12/12/07)

"Dodging the law" is not something we do here on AHB, although wimbymoonshine's suggestion is probably the best one. "Donations towards ingredients" in an honour box sounds pretty grey *this is not legal advice*.

what if it's labeled for [research and development for the perfect beer]


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## sinkas (13/12/07)

In best pommy accent "is this a wind-up maate?"


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## reVoxAHB (13/12/07)

and all this time I thought AHB was a cover for free satellite unlock codes!?

shhhhess!

reVox


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## Lindsay Dive (13/12/07)

grinder said:


> Hi Fellow brewers.
> I have come up with some killer recipe's and reccon I could flog em off to my mates (& strangers) for a tidy profit.
> It would be a win-win. Making around 50% profit per bottle.
> It will be a much cheaper alternative for people to purchase from me than the local liquor shop and there should be repeat business, given the savings. The only problem is the law.
> ...



My suggestion would be to give up brewing and take up kite flying.


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## grinder (13/12/07)

Lindsay Dive said:


> My suggestion would be to give up brewing and take up kite flying.



I already make, sell and fly kites. Thanks for your advice though. (Buy the way, if you want to buy one of my, "hand crafted" high performance stunt kites drop me a PM)

Donation box sounds like the go.

Thanks guys.


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## hairofthedog (13/12/07)

dont be a tightarse & let ya mates drink your kegs for free money on the fridge sounds like Ted Bullpit


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## DJR (13/12/07)

To paraphrase Nancy Reagan

"Winners don't sell homebrew"

You are asking for a whole load of federal law whoopass. I heard a story of a guy who tried to do the same thing, selling homebrew and spirits, a couple of smart "customers" (may have been corrupt cops) told him in no uncertain terms that he was going to supply them with free samples every week from the point of their "discussion". He denied the request and was promptly reported and busted, bigtime.

The idea of pitching in for ingredients is probably about as far as you can go without problems.


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## drag (13/12/07)

Better rent/buy The Dukes of Hazzard and learn from them as they know how to get away with it for years.


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## blackbock (13/12/07)

Threads like this one do nothing but degrade the image of homebrewers. Most of us are trying to promote craftbrewing as a way of obtaining quality brews while carrying out a legitimate and worthwhile hobby. 

If people are seen to be selling sly grog, it won't be long before we are all branded moonshiners and the government will pass some law banning homebrewing. People who sell homebrew/spirits are a menace and in most cases they are taking advantage of others anyway. They should, and will eventually be caught, and hopefully be stopped.


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## Lindsay Dive (13/12/07)

grinder said:


> I already make, sell and fly kites. Thanks for your advice though. (Buy the way, if you want to buy one of my, "hand crafted" high performance stunt kites drop me a PM)
> 
> Donation box sounds like the go.
> 
> Thanks guys.


 
Can I please have one of your kites, preferably a free fall, crash and burn type. I reckon you'd have a couple on the shelf, near where you brew. :super:


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## Mercs Own (13/12/07)

You know it's illegal so why ask the question? If you reckon your beer is so good you just want to flog it off to all and sundry donate it to a good cause, that way you can feel good about brewing great beer and helping out those less fortunate than yourself


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## devo (13/12/07)

I've sold my mate a couple of non-fermented wort kits before which is completely OK. He just covers the cost of my ingredients but dunno bout selling the full finished product...the answer is kinda obvious really.


You don't happen to be an ATO agent trying to entrap some potential bootleggers? h34r:


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## brettprevans (13/12/07)

I dont know about anyone else but does anyone else have mates that are willing to buy their Hb off them. I know I dont. 

Going back to the point. no there is no way to sell HB to your mates witout it being illeagal. silly question. unless you go down the legitimate route as suggested by Post Modern.

What you and your mates choose to do in the privacy of your own lives is up to you, but you certainly dont talk about it on a public forum. If your going to seel it to them illeagally then you just do it. why would there be any trick to it? its illagal so you just change money and beer. again its a bit of a silly question. unless of course we have all missed your point. 

a donation tin also doesnt cut the mustard as your not a charity. its your mates just leave $ sitting around at your place then so be it (but then there is actually a legal arugment of theft but I wont go into that). 

And no Im not being holier than thou. just making the 1 post on the subject.


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## Fatgodzilla (13/12/07)

devo said:


> You don't happen to be an ATO agent trying to entrap some potential bootleggers? h34r:



ATO not that devious or clever 

....what's that helicopter doing landing on my lawn ..?

I make home brews for some old men in the local nursing home - they buy the kits and I make it for them. I get that brewing buzz from making beer (you know what I mean) and they get a cheap buzz. I love it when they debate the merits of Coopers kits v Tooheys kits v Homebrand kits - I haven't told them about the steeped grains, the added hops, the added malts. Gives them something to talk about, gives me some satisfaction helping the old blokes out. 

I'm just hoping the original thread was sent in tongue in cheek. Blackbock's comments are the most pertinent. well said man.



> Threads like this one do nothing but degrade the image of homebrewers. Most of us are trying to promote craftbrewing as a way of obtaining quality brews while carrying out a legitimate and worthwhile hobby.
> 
> If people are seen to be selling sly grog, it won't be long before we are all branded moonshiners and the government will pass some law banning homebrewing. People who sell homebrew/spirits are a menace and in most cases they are taking advantage of others anyway. They should, and will eventually be caught, and hopefully be stopped.


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## pokolbinguy (13/12/07)

I would say do what ever you want, just don't tell the whole wide world about it. I'm sure AHB has its fair share of police, solicitors, government workers, ATO employees etc so it really is a stupid idea to post such a question on a forum.

If the original post was a hoax to try and get people to cough up about doing such activities then for christ sake do you really think we are all that stupid??

But anyway... don't do it, but if you must...keep it quiet!!!

Pok


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## barry2 (13/12/07)

I agree with all the negative comments and now add one.Presumably any one producing and selling liquids for human consumption has to get some licence to ensure the plant etc meets health standards so you would be in breach of that too.God help you if any of the drinkers ever feels his health has been affected by drinking your brew for which he paid.The ambulance chasing lawyers would have a field day.


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## wimbymoonshine (13/12/07)

grinder said:


> I already make, sell and fly kites. Thanks for your advice though. (Buy the way, if you want to buy one of my, "hand crafted" high performance stunt kites drop me a PM)
> 
> Donation box sounds like the go.
> 
> Thanks guys.



Ok mate, you have the wrong idea and attitude towards homebrewing and i would like to dispell any misconception you may have about my donation jar. 
Its not a way to make money, its there so i can that i can continue brewing and the people that want to help me out are free to. They are also allowed to take the beer for free if they wish.

Again, it is illegal what you intend on doing. If you want to make money through it or go through the channels as per the moderators advice. Otherwise get a job!!


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## domonsura (13/12/07)

_*So how do you go about selling your best brews for profit whilst dodging the law??? *_ 

YOU DON'T !!! 

Simple as that. No 'contributions to ingredients' or 'research' tin bullshit, no dodgy little grey area side-steps to try and outsmart the tax man or the law. 

Being able to make our own brew (regardless of the way you want to look at it) is a priviledge gifted to us by Mr Whitlam - and people who abuse it in the fashion you are considering will only ever end up stuffing it up for the rest of us. The fact that you are talking about 'a tidy profit' from it as far as I am concerned drops you into a different category from us here altogether.

Tell your mates to HTFU and brew it themselves. The 'donations tin' is at the HBS - they can make their 'donation' there & turn up to your place with a bag of grain etc so you can help them make their own beer. I don't agree with the 'if you must do it keep it quiet' advice. Just don't do it. As far as I'm concerned this thread is placing our favourite past-time in jeopardy, and making us all look like a bunch of dodgy little bootleggers - and it should have been removed by the mods the minute it was posted. 

Ring your local police, council & liquor licensing board and query the penalties involved for illegal production & sale of alcohol without a licence, tax evasion, excise evasion, breach of council planning & consents, breach of EPA regulations (all of which come into play the minute you want to sell beer) - then there will be legal fees, penalties on top of the unpaid tax, GST and excise, confiscation of equipment and possibly even the property that the brewing was done on (proceeds of crime act), JAIL, CRIMINAL RECORD..........

Hope your 'tidy profit' makes up for all that..... :huh: Surely it's much easier for your mates to come & do a brew day with you instead of make you risk all that? It only takes ONE person to accuse you of selling it for you to be up to your eyeballs in sh*t.


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## Enerjex (13/12/07)

your mates will eventually tire of you making money off them too, so in the long run it's just not worth it. if one of your mates is hell bent on assisting you financially for drinking your brew then go halvies in the ingredients, brew it together then take half each at the end. (I'm no lawyer but that's gotta be legal doesnt it?). As the others have said a forum is not a good place to advertise you're doing something illegal, it's like people who put videos of themselves doing burnouts on youtube.


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## tangent (13/12/07)

this has got to be a joke. Who the hell would pay for an extract beer anyway?


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## /// (13/12/07)

I just keep thinking, 'give a mate a beer and he will drink all night, teach him how to brew and he will have beer for you to drink all night'....

Scotty


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## Lindsay Dive (13/12/07)

Hey Grinder, you tight arse, how's the flame suit going?? getting a little hot in there I'll bet.

It's got be buggered how you would have any mates to drink your beer.


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## Leigh (13/12/07)

domonsura said:


> Hope your 'tidy profit' makes up for all that..... :huh: Surely it's much easier for your mates to come & do a brew day with you instead of make you risk all that? It only takes ONE person to accuse you of selling it for you to be up to your eyeballs in sh*t.



I find this the most amusing part about this thread...I have no doubt at all that there would be some law enforcement types browsing this forum on a regular basis, looking for just such a thread...and unlike the majority think, NOBODY is anonymous on the internet...

Within 24h of seeing a thread like this, they would have the posters name, address, occupation, drivers licence number etc etc and be putting together a nice profile!

Mates who buy from him probably wouldn't even realise that they had been "randomly" pulled over somewhere between his house and home for a visual inspection for homebrews in the car...the coppers might even ask questions about the slabs in the back as if they are brewers themselves...

My advice to Grinder would be, if you were even considering this, I wouldn't think any further as a bust is on it's way to you!


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## Lukes (13/12/07)

Remember when you get caught (unless you move to Greece or Spain) and go to jail you will become the donation jar. :lol:


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## schooey (13/12/07)

I put this to you: If a mate has to make 50% profit off a mate for a beer that he made doing something he enjoyed doing, is he really a mate?


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## randyrob (13/12/07)

Here here!


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## warra48 (13/12/07)

Don't do it. As has been pointed out in many of the posts above, it's illegal.
Also, don't give the megabrewers more ammunition to put pressure on governments to outlaw home brewing, and force us all into buying their crap instead.


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## Keifer (13/12/07)

lol this is a funny thread 

No-one thinks he is just stirring shit? hehe


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## Ginger NZ (13/12/07)

Completely off topic, not that it's a bad thing in this case, but kudos for FatGodzilla for mixing homebrewing and being a good b*stard.


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## Fents (13/12/07)

Keifer said:


> lol this is a funny thread
> 
> No-one thinks he is just stirring shit? hehe




hahah bait the hook and they will bite. happens all too often on the interweb, serious bizness innit.


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## Sammus (13/12/07)

wow some angry people here. I'll throw in my 2 cents.

As if noones ever done anything illegal before, how about we bust each others balls for going 10 over the speed limit or have a converted keg kettle or whatever. Anyway, thats not all that important...here's my real contribution:
One, my mates wouldn't by HB off me beacause I just give it too em for free, and anyway they offer me $$ for ingredients etc because they feel bad when they finish off my favourite keg.
Two, even if they were willing to buy it and I was tight enough to sell it to them - it would be to my mates, and my mates wouldnt dob me into the law. I don't even understand why you would ask 'how to dodge the law', are you thinking of alcohol smuggler or something? there's no law to deal with if your only dealing with a close circle of friends. Actually... *sniff sniff* I smell a troll!


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## BoilerBoy (13/12/07)

tangent said:


> this has got to be a joke. Who the hell would pay for an extract beer anyway?



I have to admit this was my first thought as well  

Surely this has to be a thread with a well baited hook though?

BB


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## devo (13/12/07)

....Anyway let me take this opportunity to announce the opening of my new "speak easy" this weekend. B) 

Hours are b/w 11pm to 6am Friday and Saturday and the address is............


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## PostModern (13/12/07)

domonsura said:


> As far as I'm concerned this thread is placing our favourite past-time in jeopardy, and making us all look like a bunch of dodgy little bootleggers - and it should have been removed by the mods the minute it was posted.



I thought it would be good to see reactions, such as yours and all the others, to show that we as homebrewers don't condone this activity. Those who talk about wanting to sell their brew in public places deserve whatever law enforcement that posts attracts. It's been good to see that no-one has supported OP's desire to make a profit from our craft.

And I disagree that being allowed to homebrew is a gift. Being able to make a beverage at home is a right, not some pearl from the Labor party. The banning of homebrewing was a restriction on our freedom. You don't have to thank your jailer for unshackling your feet.



Sammus said:


> *sniff sniff* I smell a troll!



I don't think so. I smell something different.


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## chimera (13/12/07)

Stuff it, I'm not even going to pretend to be nice

I know a few 'business minded' tightarses who seem to think that profiteering from their 'mates' is fair game.
It's not fair game, it's pissing in your own pond. Does it make you feel good to take your 'mates' money? Is that what mates are for?

Aside from that what you propose is illegal, the fallout from which could kill the honest brewing community - and for that your proposal sinks even lower. You want your mates money, and you want our help?

Pull yer head in grinder.
Brew beer because it's a fun hobby, give it to your mates and they will appreciate it immensely and repay you in all sorts of favours, not to mention friendship - which is worth far more than a few bucks.


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## Cracka (13/12/07)

I was going to contribute to this thread cause everybody else has.











Well there you go. 

Contributed :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jimmysuperlative (13/12/07)

Maybe grinder is the one with the badge? ...just a thought?

I reckon those who contribute to AHB are above any of this sort of impropriety.


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## domonsura (13/12/07)

PostModern said:


> And I disagree that being allowed to homebrew is a gift. Being able to make a beverage at home is a right, not some pearl from the Labor party. The banning of homebrewing was a restriction on our freedom. You don't have to thank your jailer for unshackling your feet.



I understand what you're saying Pomo, but there are restrictions of freedom everywhere - it's still something that by the grace of someone who had some forethought and common sense, we are _now _allowed to do. In many places it's illegal to even make beer, so I consider it a 'priviledge' although the word itself isn't quite right for the context. And once it's gone, then it's gone. Simple. Just the same as I consider it a 'priviledge' to see my kids that live with their mother. Yes I have the right to see them. But that doesn't change the fact that if she wants to make it difficult she could (and does). I also consider it my right to (within certain boundaries) water my vegie garden. SA Water see's it differently unless it happens to be Sunday between certain hours. Apparently they consider it a priviledge that I be supplied water in the first place, and they even threaten some customers with having the water turned off to their property if they don;t tow the line.

So priviledge or right - it's really a matter of perception when it comes to anything.  Both can be taken away by the powers that be far too easily.


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## aquabrew (13/12/07)

Well I hope that has cleared the mind of anyone here that may have been thinking about the idea of giving homebrew away for money. I know i won't be doing it now! You guys have explained yourself very well, and i hope you have inspired all of us to hold the craft of HB to a top standard! Good on you AHB fellow Home Brewers!


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## Millet Man (13/12/07)

Grinder,

If the homebrew's that good and you want to make money out of it then go through the process legally like the rest of us that have taken the step from HB to commercial. Otherwise pull your head in and just enjoy the hobby.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## AlwayzLoozeCount (13/12/07)

I once got offered an invite to a homebrew sort of party/taste test thing. But you had to pay $20 for the invitation then take the invitation to the party. On the back of the invite there was 20 square token things that got hole punched when you got a beer...... I didn't go.


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## JasonY (13/12/07)

I think the question has been adequately covered.


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