# Looking For A Stout Extract Recipe



## adz1179 (15/3/11)

g'day...

looking to put on a stout now for winter :icon_cheers: ... something with a hint of coffee / choc would be nice... i have moved from kits to extract, have not yet used any grains but i think i have read enough on here to have a crack... checked through the recipe db but couldn't see much... appreciate if anyone can give me some pointers

..... or just get a fwk and be done with it????

thanks,
adz.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/3/11)

adz1179 said:


> g'day...
> 
> looking to put on a stout now for winter :icon_cheers: ... something with a hint of coffee / choc would be nice... i have moved from kits to extract, have not yet used any grains but i think i have read enough on here to have a crack... checked through the recipe db but couldn't see much... appreciate if anyone can give me some pointers
> 
> ...



Stouts are one of the best extract recipes you can get.

I would be going for:

1.5kg Light Malt liquid extract
1.5kg Amber Malt liquid extract
0.4kg Chocolate Malt (Grain)
0.5kg CaraWheat Malt (Grain)
0.5kg Flaked Oats (Grain)

The Grains need to be soaked in 7L (ie. 5L per kg of grain) water that is 70 degrees Celsuis for one hour (this is called mashing).

Once the resultant liquor is removed from the grain (a kitchen sieve serves fine in this), boil it with 30g East Kent Goldings hops for an hour, adding another 30g of EKG hops when there is 15 minutes left in the boil (i.e after 45 of the 60 minutes). This doesn't give a massive hit of bitterness, but the beauty with Stout is that the Choc malt serves that purpose. Hops available from site sponsors - don't use the hop tea bags, they aren't fresh and aren't good value for money. For the same price as one of those (approx 15g), you can purchase 90g or so of the same hop far fresher in pellets.

When boil is finished, strain it through the kitchen sieve into your fermenter (sterilised of course), pour in the extract, and top up to 23L with water. When at the right temp, pitch yeast. I find that Windsor yeast suits stouts and dark ales very well.

The rest you know.

Hope this helps. And enjoy drinking a nice stout in the middle of winter, which looks like an eternity in coming.

Goomba


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## adz1179 (15/3/11)

many thanks Goomba :icon_cheers: sounds great. thanks for the advice on the technique also, being a newb at this it's a great help.

what is the ideal temp to pitch & ferment a stout, around 18 ok? 

you mentioned Windsor yeast as being a good one for this, is this the one you mean?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/3/11)

adz1179 said:


> many thanks Goomba :icon_cheers: sounds great. thanks for the advice on the technique also, being a newb at this it's a great help.
> 
> what is the ideal temp to pitch & ferment a stout, around 18 ok?
> 
> you mentioned Windsor yeast as being a good one for this, is this the one you mean?



That's the one, though they do a single pack of Danstar Windsor as well for around $3.90 a packet.

The temp range for this yeast is 17-21, so 18 degrees is fine to ferment. You might want to pitch at 23 or so degrees, or alternatively boil some water, cool it down to 23 degrees and rehydrate the yeast for a few minutes. Then pitch the yeast goo into your fermenter on top of the wort. I just chuck it in though - dry yeast is made to be handled like this.

As to the technique - the soaking (mashing) I describe is what AG is. The physical techique of mashing isn't hard at all, but understanding what mashing temps do what, and that the entire liquor needs to be boiled (unlike extract, where you don't need to boil liquid extract) is a big key to making the jump from extract to AG brewing.

The other big key is balancing hop additions to the malt volume, but get this stout under your belt first. It's a pretty foolproof recipe. When I made this one, I had no idea about mashing temps and it still turned out fantastic.

Goomba


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## adz1179 (15/3/11)

beauty. Thats Sunday arvo sorted :beer: 

thanks again


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## Harry Volting (15/3/11)

My house brew is a toucan.
A can of FRESH Coopers 'Dark Ale' and one of 'Stout'. Check the use by dates on the bottom of the can. 
Favourite yeast is Nottingham, re-hydrated dry is OK. Wild Belgians are also ok 3787 etc.
Controlled fermentation a must. (no puns)
W i n n e r.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/3/11)

Harry Volting said:


> My house brew is a toucan.
> A can of FRESH Coopers 'Dark Ale' and one of 'Stout'. Check the use by dates on the bottom of the can.
> Favourite yeast is Nottingham, re-hydrated dry is OK. Wild Belgians are also ok 3787 etc.
> Controlled fermentation a must. (no puns)
> W i n n e r.



Temp control is vital. Especially if you are like me, living in Qld and the temps inside are bad. I tried to rely on the aircon to keep the room temp good and it didn't work.

I made a toucan with cans that were 7 years out of date. Turned out okay, but as expected the good was effectively unhopped.

Love Nottingham, my fave yeast. But for Stouts, dark ales and the like I find Windsor is better, as it doesn't ferment out too dry. I find that most prefer a stout with body and good mouthfeel and that Windsor does better.

Goomba


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## Philthy79 (15/3/11)

+1 on the toucan. 

The Coopers Dark Ale & Stout works a treat. I usually go a liquid yeast (Proculture English Ringwood) or Safale S-04 @ 18

It is a magnificent drink - and as a winter warmer I add a some darker DME to up the % to around 6.5% :icon_drool2:


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## pimpsqueak (15/3/11)

I have a stout on the cards after Easter.
The recipe started off with one lonely tin of Coopers Stout that I picked up for $6 at Kmart. I decided to have a crack at the stoutiest stout I could and this is what I currently have punched into Beersmith.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 10.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.073 SG
Estimated Color: 249.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 68 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.00 kg Dark Dry Extract (34.5 EBC) Dry Extract 38.1 % 
1.00 kg Dark Dry Extract (34.5 EBC) Dry Extract 19.0 % 
0.25 kg Malt extract - Oat (8.0 EBC) Dry Extract 4.8 % 
1.70 kg Coopers Stout (1800.0 EBC) Extract 32.4 % 
0.30 kg Chocolate Malt (1200.0 EBC) Grain 5.7 % 
20.00 gm Fuggles [5.60%] (60 min) Hops 12.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Fuggles [5.60%] (30 min) Hops 9.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Fuggles [5.60%] (10 min) Hops 6.8 IBU 
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Craftbrewer #-) Yeast-Ale 



Note:
1 x tin Coopers Stout Contains approx 39 IBU so Total IBU for recipe is approx 68 (29 from boil)
(might pitch an extra pack of yeast, or swap to a liquid yeast with appropriate size starter)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No idea how it's going to pan out but I'm looking forward to finding out!!


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## mwd (15/3/11)

Full bodied stout knock down juice. You only forgot the Roasted Barley. :mellow: 
Expect a FG of about 1.020 for that badboy


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## pimpsqueak (15/3/11)

Roasted barley you say... :icon_drool2: 
Is there a way to predict the bitterness from the barley so I can accurately adjust the bittering hops down?


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## RobboMC (17/3/11)

Get hold of a small amount of Black Grain; as little as 100g steeped into a brew gives it that real STOUT flavour label.
Use it carefuly though, easily over done.

I know you want an extract beer, but a running start on bitterness with a Dark Ale or Porter kit can make the job easier without reducing quality. My choice is Muntons Nut Brown Ale, which is called brown but is basically as black as a Porter.

Add steeped dark and black grains to your taste and it quickly becomes Stout. 
Nice thing about stout is that the darkish grains are easy to steep.


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## Bizier (17/3/11)

I agree with the above about the roasted grains. I also think that if you want a hint of coffee/ choc, you should go with some Bairds pale choc if you can get it (sponsors should stock). You could also try using some carafa special, which is has had most of the the husks removed, and is less astringent.

Goomba's recipe is OK, though I would only use light extracts, and let your specialty grain do all of the darkening. I don't like the dark extract flavour, and you will get fresher flavours by using crystal and roasted malts. There is also a problem in that there are no malts there to convert the oats, so you would need to also add a half kilo or so of base malt (e.g. Barret Burston Galaxy) to supply sufficient diastatic power to your little mash. You could try using the "golden naked oats" from simpson, as I believe that they class as a crystal (steeping) malt.

I am not a fan of the toucan stout. But if I were to do it with 2 x kits, I would get two Cooper's "Cerveza" and add some dark crystal malt and some pale chocolate malt to reach the desired darkness and sweetness.

There is free software available, such as Brewmate, which will allow you to calculate and record your recipes.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

Amber extract isn't dark and works for mine. It gives enough malt flavour and allows all the dark flavour to come from the choc malts. I tend to not make stout too dry, as it then satisfies a wide range of drinkers. I've even had pale beer nazis drink and tolerate it.

Golden Naked Oats are what I use - I should have been more specific on that one.

Have to agree on the toucan stouts. Adding bitterness via your own choc malt and hops increases the quality of the stout immensley and gives the flexibility needed to produce a stout to your own taste. I find kit stouts can (depending on brand, storage and the like) get a little acrid in their dark bitterness.

Goomba


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## manticle (17/3/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> The Grains need to be soaked in 7L (ie. 5L per kg of grain) water that is 70 degrees Celsuis for one hour (this is called *mashing*).



Steeping.

Important distinction. If done with base grain then it is mashing but we are talking about specialty grains. While the process that the brewer goes through is similar, what happens inside the grain is different.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

manticle said:


> Steeping.
> 
> Important distinction. If done with base grain then it is mashing but we are talking about specialty grains. While the process that the brewer goes through is similar, what happens inside the grain is different.



True true. Steeping <> Mashing.

I'm trying to demystify the terminology for the OP. I wish someone had done that for me 10 years ago when I ventured on from K&K. I'd be a better brewer (and more experienced as an AG brewer) than I am now. I suppose I came at it from that point of view.

But see your point, not enough enzymes in the grain aren't enough to convert starch into sugars when steeping spec grains, etc etc etc. Slightly OT, I did a low abv full bodied amber ale using a higher % of spec grains to up the body, but limit the fermentables.

Sorry OP. Just trying to keep it simple.

Goomba


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## manticle (17/3/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I'm trying to demystify the terminology for the OP. I wish someone had done that for me 10 years ago when I ventured on from K&K. I'd be a better brewer (and more experienced as an AG brewer) than I am now. I suppose I came at it from that point of view.



I can see that and your blow by blow description of steeping etc was generally really good, clear and simple. However confusion of terms (as opposed to demystification) won't help new brewers - when they see the term 'mashing' conflated with 'steeping', they might think they can make an AG stout by 'mashing' 5kg of choc malt.

Not having a go - the fact that you've taken the time to lay it out clearly is great and I like seeing more experienced brewers take time to help newer brewers. I know a lot of people get confused with the difference between mashing and steeping, spec grains and base grains etc so it's worth making the distinction clear here.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/3/11)

manticle said:


> I can see that and your blow by blow description of steeping etc was generally really good, clear and simple. However confusion of terms (as opposed to demystification) won't help new brewers - when they see the term 'mashing' conflated with 'steeping', they might think they can make an AG stout by 'mashing' 5kg of choc malt.
> 
> Not having a go - the fact that you've taken the time to lay it out clearly is great and I like seeing more experienced brewers take time to help newer brewers. I know a lot of people get confused with the difference between mashing and steeping, spec grains and base grains etc so it's worth making the distinction clear here.



Fair call, and no offense taken.

Given that a few more experienced brewers aren't as active as they used to be, and the one thing I've done for many years is kit and extract and knowing the "big jump" mentally between goo and AG, I'm trying to offer what I do know well to the newbs, to break down the mental barrier.

And ironically, by correcting that - you probably have actually built on the OP's knowledge, because if the concept of "mashing" is demystified, then the difference between steeping and mashing is now clarified as well.

All's good. :lol: 

Goomba


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## manticle (17/3/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I'm trying to offer what I do know well to the newbs, to break down the mental barrier.



A good thing, should be more of it.



> by correcting that - you probably have actually built on the OP's knowledge,



Completely intentional and motivated by very similar intentions to your own.


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## adz1179 (30/3/11)

so from what i have picked up on this post and using bremate & Ian's s/sheet i have come up with the following for my winter stout:

3kg LME light
110gm Joe White/Maltcraft Roast Barley 
110gm Simpsons Black Malt 
250gm Joe White/Maltcraft Chocolate 
450gm Joe White/Maltcraft Dark Crystal 
40g east kent goldings
30g fuggles
150g dex
yeast: Danstar Nottingham


proposed method:

4lt boil, step grains at 75 deg for 30mins, sparge in 1lt water
Boil volume to 5lt.

Add 100gms of LME to get to 1.040 - stir

Bring to boil

East Kents in at 60 mins full pack

Fuggles in at 20 

2 mins: Add espresso coffee (not sure on qty), remainder of LME and 150gms dex

Strain into fermenter

Top up to 23lt at 18 deg

Pitch yeast (danstar Nottingham)



this is my first attempt at making a stout and using grains. can anyone see any problems with ingredients / method?? :unsure:


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## manticle (30/3/11)

Generally looks good.

A few points - I'd look at upping the roast barley a little. I regularly use 500g in an AG stout which gives that lovely coffee flavour. I'd throw in at least 250 to yours.
I think 450 dark crystal might be a bit much, especially in an extract brew. I'll use up to 500 crystal regularly in pale ales and ESB but the stout might be just a bit rich and chewy with that much. Maybe 200-300g.

Just to double check - you know that you need the grains to be cracked? (my first steeping attempt I didn't so not meaning to insult your intelligence)

Lastly, while I think a small amount of dex is a good addition in many extract brews, I'm not sure you'll need it for this one. My understanding is that Nottingham is a good attenuator (haven't used it myself) and it seems like you are wanting a big winter beer full of richness. Dropping the crystal back a bit and dropping out the dex should balance up OK.

I'd also think about swapping the fuggles and EKG - you'd need to re-calculate the IBU amounts to make them match but fuggles is generally preferred as a bittering hop rather than a flavouring hop. That's not to say it can't be used as a flavour hop (James Squire IPA is a commercial example of a beer that does) but it's not to everyone's taste. I Alternatively, you could look at a single bittering addition only to get the IBU you want. UK style stout is mainly about the malt and roastiness.

Having said that - According to reading, some historical stouts were even dry hopped with fuggles and Kent Goldings but these beers were generally matured for months.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/3/11)

manticle said:


> I'd look at upping the roast barley a little. I regularly use 500g in an AG stout which gives that lovely coffee flavour


 +1



> I think 450 dark crystal might be a bit much, especially in an extract brew... the stout might be just a bit rich and chewy with that much. Maybe 200-300g.


 +1



> I'm not sure you'll need (dex) for this one. My understanding is that Nottingham is a good attenuator


 +1 to no dex, and Nottingham attenuates extremely well. I had a pale ale get down to 1.004 with it (no infection). You may also like to consider windsor if you don't want the yeast that attenuative.



> I'd also think about swapping the fuggles and EKG...Alternatively, you could look at a single bittering addition only to get the IBU you want. UK style stout is mainly about the malt and roastiness.


 +1 - and it appears as though 40g of EKG at the start may overdo it. You don't want much hop flavour there, and the roasted grains do offer some coffee-like bitterness.

Goomba


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## adz1179 (30/3/11)

A few points - I'd look at upping the roast barley a little. I regularly use 500g in an AG stout which gives that lovely coffee flavour. I'd throw in at least 250 to yours.
I think 450 dark crystal might be a bit much, especially in an extract brew. I'll use up to 500 crystal regularly in pale ales and ESB but the stout might be just a bit rich and chewy with that much. Maybe 200-300g.

ok... sounds good thanks...

Just to double check - you know that you need the grains to be cracked? (my first steeping attempt I didn't so not meaning to insult your intelligence)

i ordered them from grain and grape milled - is that the same thing / no good???

Lastly, while I think a small amount of dex is a good addition in many extract brews, I'm not sure you'll need it for this one. My understanding is that Nottingham is a good attenuator (haven't used it myself) and it seems like you are wanting a big winter beer full of richness. Dropping the crystal back a bit and dropping out the dex should balance up OK.

great - out with the dex.


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## mwd (30/3/11)

milled is the same thing as cracked so all good should be a nice stout IMO


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## Sydneybrewer (30/3/11)

another +1

on the toucan coopers dark ale + coopers stout i also added 500g golden syrup and fermented with S-04, best kit beer i made, better then any extract stout attempt for that matter too and almost neck and neck with the AG oatmeal stout/coffee FES that i have made.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/3/11)

Sydneybrewer said:


> another +1
> 
> on the toucan coopers dark ale + coopers stout i also added 500g golden syrup and fermented with S-04, best kit beer i made, better then any extract stout attempt for that matter too and almost neck and neck with the AG oatmeal stout/coffee FES that i have made.



Thanks Sydneybrewer - you just reminded me of one of my first stouts, where I used treacle (less refined than golden syrup) and some ber dark brown sugar. Turned out fantastic.

Goomba


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## domix (6/4/11)

Hoping to make something similar, but will be a partial mash. How does it look?
This will be my first partial so trying to get my head around the whole mash process.
Going for the BIAB in an esky method.
Beersmith says I should mash with 8.6L, and I assume I should batch sparge with another 8.6L? Limited by my kettle at the moment
How is the IBU for the recipe too?
Still a tad unsure of mash temps and sparging (I know if after a full bodied stout so aiming high), but gonna just go for it and top up with DME to reach OG.

thanks,
Adam

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 16.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 110.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 23.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 36.70 % 
2.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 45.87 % 
0.40 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (1398.7 EBC) Grain 7.34 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 4.59 % 
0.20 kg Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (925.9 EBC)Grain 3.67 % 
0.10 kg Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC) Grain 1.83 % 
40.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 17.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 3.45 kg
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Step Add 8.62 L of water at 76.8 C 68.3 C


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## manticle (6/4/11)

Sparge with enough to make up your pre-boil volume. You will lose around 1 litre per kilo to grain absorption in the mash and of course you will leave some liquid behind in the kettle so if you put 16 L in you won't get 16 L out.

Reckon I'd look at upping the IBU to around 30 but it's personal taste.

I'd mash a bit lower because the extract will give a thick beer anyway. Aim for 66.


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## domix (6/4/11)

Ok thanks. Forgot about grain absorption (1 L/kg?).
I'll aim for 30 IBU. Which do think would be better, more hops in late or early in the boil?
I don't want to mask the smell from the grains with late hop additions, so perhaps:

40gm fuggles at 60mins (17.7 IBU)
40gm fuggles at 40mins (15.6 IBU)

thanks


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## Bizier (6/4/11)

I'll jump in here because this thread instigated my decision to use some naked golden oats in my last brew. I think they definitely need to be mashed, they are not at all crystallised, and are very starchy.


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## Bizier (6/4/11)

Domix, I think your recipe looks good, and against Manticle, i'd prefer the lower ibu. I like the mixed dark grains, should be decidedly roasty.


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## manticle (6/4/11)

domix said:


> Ok thanks. Forgot about grain absorption (1 L/kg?).
> I'll aim for 30 IBU. Which do think would be better, more hops in late or early in the boil?
> I don't want to mask the smell from the grains with late hop additions, so perhaps:
> 
> ...



No need for late hops in a stout unless you are making an american stout or feel experimental.

Anything between 60 and 40. I'd probably stick with a single bittering addition to keep it simple



@ Bizier: from memory (have to look it up) my stout recipe sits around 28-30 and is definitely not too bitter. However it's generally made as a sweet stout. I guess anything between 20 and 30 would service.

OP - maybe aim for 25 and see how you like that?


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## domix (6/4/11)

I definitely want the malt to shine in this one. A winter warmer.
As far as a single hop addition, BeerSmith is giving me 23 IBU with 60g of Fuggles at 40 min.
That sounds nice.

Thanks for the input. Most appreciated.


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