# Stainless threads galling.



## Pnutapper (4/9/17)

Hi all,

I have just become a victim of thread galling or "cold welding." I had never heard of this phenomenon before, but it is truly terrifying.

For those not in the know, it is when a thread that was screwed in just past finger tight, seizes when unscrewing. It will no longer move either way.

My beloved supplier has told me I should have been using an anti seize paste on the thread at time of installation. They are now my ex supplier as this has never before been necessary in 20 years of using their product line - they "forgot" to issue a tech bulletin when they started using a different grade of stainless steel for fittings.


Anyway, do any of the engineer types here at AHB know a method, or a contractor who can remove the thread from my manifold? I need to get the nipple out of the pipe manifold. It would be nice to get the other end of the nipple out of the block manifold as well, however this is not crucial. I am Melbourne based. Inner Nth suburbs.


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## homebrewnewb (4/9/17)

aww man, that is terrible news!
side note, oooooh shiny.


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## Pnutapper (4/9/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> side note, oooooh shiny.



You should see it after I have cleaned it!


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## homebrewnewb (4/9/17)

this isn't your personal gear is it? also, would it be safe to say it's friction welded not cold?


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## Droopy Brew (4/9/17)

Cold shit in a can?? "Freeze your nuts off" or what ever it is called might be worth a go. Worst case it doesn't work and cost you $5.


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## Pnutapper (4/9/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> this isn't your personal gear is it? also, would it be safe to say it's friction welded not cold?


Nah, not mine... A customer I have had for around 15 years. Doing the same thing for them year in year out, and doing nothing different this time.

It could be called friction welding mate... Dunno. I know that aside from pressure, nothing could have caused any friction. Screwed the fittings in by hand, and just nipped them up a little with a spanner when they were finger tight. Certainly no bicep bulging torque applied to them.


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## Matplat (4/9/17)

The curse of stainless!

When using stainless fittings, your ex-supplier is right, thread lubricant of some description is required. However some fittings will have a silver coating applied to one of the threads so nothing is actually required to be applied.

I must say I'm surprised to hear of this happening at low torque though, I normally find it occurs when there is some pressure on the thread to get things going.

DB has the right approach I reckon, alternatively, apply heat from a blow torch to the external portion of the thread while applying torque to the nipple.


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## Mardoo (4/9/17)

I actually just experienced this for the first time this week, too. It galled me no end  . Fortunately mine was just a retainer bolt on a 3-piece valve I cleaned for the first time. The threads were shocking! Rough as guts. I just cut the bolt off and got a new one.


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## MHB (4/9/17)

There are lots of anti-galling products (collectively known as Silver Shit), probably plenty of food grade ones to if you do a bit of looking.
Its really messy, sticky and if you get it on anything but the thread you will spend forever getting it off.
Mark


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## Mr B (4/9/17)

Noting the cause, perhaps a little Penetrene may also assist?


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

Matplat said:


> The curse of stainless!
> 
> When using stainless fittings, your ex-supplier is right, thread lubricant of some description is required. However some fittings will have a silver coating applied to one of the threads so nothing is actually required to be applied.
> 
> ...



And that is fine* IF* they advise long standing customers of a need to suddenly change installation practices because they have changed their manufacturing processes. For these types of fittings in this application, there has never been a need in the past to use a thread paste or lube of any description.
I am tossing up whether to use heat or cold. All the reading I have done since this happened suggests heat, as the two surfaces will expand and then contract at different rates allowing a window of opportunity to move the thread a little at a time.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

Mardoo said:


> I actually just experienced this for the first time this week, too. It galled me no end  . Fortunately mine was just a retainer bolt on a 3-piece valve I cleaned for the first time. The threads were shocking! Rough as guts. I just cut the bolt off and got a new one.


I see what you did there... 

Trust me... I am feeling your pain 

I am around 1900 bucks out of pocket on this little clusterfark!.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

MHB said:


> There are lots of anti-galling products (collectively known as Silver Shit), probably plenty of food grade ones to if you do a bit of looking.
> Its really messy, sticky and if you get it on anything but the thread you will spend forever getting it off.
> Mark
> View attachment 108091


 Yes, thanks. I have a food grade Loctite product I will be pasting away with, with great abandon in the future. My task at the moment is to get this bugger out. Unfortunately, these types of paste will not work retrospectively!


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

Mr B said:


> Noting the cause, perhaps a little Penetrene may also assist?


When this happens, It is like a weld. I really doubt that any lubricant will get me out of this. I have tried a copper & lead lube carried in a very light penetrating oil that is usually my "go to" on seized threads, but it made no difference at all.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

Droopy Brew said:


> Cold shit in a can?? "Freeze your nuts off" or what ever it is called might be worth a go. Worst case it doesn't work and cost you $5.


As noted above, I have been tossing up whether to apply heat or cold to see if it gets me out of this. I may test on some of the block manifolds I did manage to get out of the pipe manifold to see how it goes. (For those interested, this one in the pic is the last of 24. I got the other 23 out.)


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## Matplat (5/9/17)

You could potentially use both heat and cold, to maximise the effect. Heat on the outside, cool on the inside. Applying heat to the outside will be easier given the shape of the components.

Try to apply heat evenly around the entire thread, and have an assistant apply constant torque on the nut while you are on the blow torch.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

Matplat said:


> You could potentially use both heat and cold, to maximise the effect. Heat on the outside, cool on the inside. Applying heat to the outside will be easier given the shape of the components.
> 
> Try to apply heat evenly around the entire thread, and have an assistant apply constant torque on the nut while you are on the blow torch.


Yes, this is the way I was leaning as well. The equipment is in a cool room with a nominal set point of 2.5°C, and I was initially thinking of introducing boiling water internally. After rethinking this, that is not clever as I have glass and rubber components in the manifold to consider as well. I will try introducing a sacrificial solution of glycol and water internally on a recirc at around -3°C, and put the propane torch on the thread today.


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## homebrewnewb (5/9/17)

you're ganna need an extra pair of hands i reckon.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> you're ganna need an extra pair of hands i reckon.



All unnecessary leave has been cancelled! I don't know whether to give the apprentice the torch or the spanner. He will hurt himself either way.


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## TheWiggman (5/9/17)

Stainless is a prick that way in that once it wants to pick up, you're basically snookered and efforts made to remove the nut compound the problem.
Penetrene - won't work, very effective on corroded nuts but not on bound stainless
Heat - worth a shot but not common practice that I have seen on stainless threads. If you don't have an oxy or similar don't go to extraordinary lengths to get one, as it probably won't work.

First option is to give it more force - put a bar on the spanner and use all your might to try and remove it. You'll damage the thread, but chances are if it's tapered you might be able to get away with it. Obviously tap the thread out after you're done.

If you absolutely _must_ remove the component then the option is limited to cutting the nipple, grinding out the remaining nipple with a die grinder until you can see the female part of the thread, then manually trying to remove the thread remnants from the nipple. This will be frustrating and laborious and not guaranteed to work depending on how fused the threads are. This will certainly damage the thread in part and you'll need to run a tap through it with liberal cutting fluid. 

Personally, I would cut out the bound socket and weld in a new one. $20 for the socket and a few hours' labour for a welder.

Anti-seize is absolutely a preventative solution to binding threads and there are sanitary options out there. I haven't used them in brewing before so can't recommend one beyond a web search.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

TheWiggman said:


> Stainless is a prick that way in that once it wants to pick up, you're basically snookered and efforts made to remove the nut compound the problem.
> Penetrene - won't work, very effective on corroded nuts but not on bound stainless
> Heat - worth a shot but not common practice that I have seen on stainless threads. If you don't have an oxy or similar don't go to extraordinary lengths to get one, as it probably won't work.
> 
> ...



Thank you... This all seems like sound advice, it appears that you have had some experience with this type of buggerance.

The nipple is tapered, and as you say you can get away with force, I did for 23 of the 24 fittings. I have tried a breaker bar, and I don't think any amount of force will achieve anything for this last one. (Except to possibly rip the framework out of the floor.)

Your second option is something I have considered but I suspect that your words "This will be frustrating and laborious and not guaranteed to work" are very true. This option in the long run is also likely to end up more exxy than your third option.

Soooo.... Option 3 is my get out of jail plan now if the heat thing doesn't work. Just need to find a contractor that is capable of this type of thing. My own welding skills are not up to the task.

P.S. The rep for the Loctite food grade anti seize product claims it to be safe in brewing environs. If any one is interested, I will report back once I can reintroduce beer to the manifold. This equipment is a distribution manifold for the finished product, and not a brewery as such.


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## 2cranky (5/9/17)

Pnutapper said:


> All unnecessary leave has been cancelled! I don't know whether to give the apprentice the torch or the spanner. He will hurt himself either way.


The spanner of course! Give him the torch he might hurt you and burn half the joint down.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

2cranky said:


> The spanner of course! Give him the torch he might hurt you and burn half the joint down.


HaHaHa
I reckon he would be able to hurt himself/me with a cotton bud!


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## homebrewnewb (5/9/17)

Option 4, fling sueball at vendor and make it their issue, pros, no longer your issue possibly outsource, cons, lawyers, cost outstrip parts, etc...


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## Mardoo (5/9/17)

Pnutapper said:


> I see what you did there...
> 
> Trust me... I am feeling your pain
> 
> I am around 1900 bucks out of pocket on this little clusterfark!.


Eff me, that's awful. I think you're feeling way more pain than me. What was the change in grade of the SS the former supplier used?


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## BrockHops (5/9/17)

I use ss fittings/bolts/pipe at work, mainly for process water( not food processing)
I use the old PTFE thread tape to seal the join, but it's a pretty good "lubricant"
But on the odd occasion I forget to put jumping grease (anti seize) on my bolts, the nuts just bind up like a mofo...


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

Mardoo said:


> Eff me, that's awful. I think you're feeling way more pain than me. What was the change in grade of the SS the former supplier used?


I am still waiting for an answer to this. I suspect that it was not a permanent change as the parts were date stamped. This is unusual for my supplier. So until I hear differently, I now suspect that they may have had manufacturing issues at the time and outsourced my order to another manufacturer so my order could be filled in time. I have been examining all the parts since the catastrophe and found other odd things. The ball bearings in the snap lock adaptors pictured above are all mild steel and not stainless. The o rings used on the 3/4" threads are not standard etc. etc.

I fear that I may not get an answer though. I let loose with a particularly colorful string of invective when I was told that all of a sudden, after 20 years of loyal custom I now need to use anti seize... Told this after the parts were installed and well bound.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

BrockHops said:


> I use ss fittings/bolts/pipe at work, mainly for process water( not food processing)
> I use the old PTFE thread tape to seal the join, but it's a pretty good "lubricant"
> But on the odd occasion I forget to put jumping grease (anti seize) on my bolts, the nuts just bind up like a mofo...




Yes, after reading a whole bunch of stuff on the interwebs since the incident, a lot of US sites have the same advice about thread tape. I have never really thought of teflon as a lubricant, more as a sealing method. I have also used it in the past if I suspect the integrity of a thread (e.g "swarfy" threads etc.)

Visually though, these threads appeared fine when they were fitted.


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## BrockHops (5/9/17)

Pnutapper said:


> Yes, after reading a whole bunch of stuff on the interwebs since the incident, a lot of US sites have the same advice about thread tape. I have never really thought of teflon as a lubricant, more as a sealing method. I have also used it in the past if I suspect the integrity of a thread (e.g "swarfy" threads etc.)


I know hindsight is a wonderful thing...

Yep, seen some pretty rough threads on some 2" stuff we have.


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/9/17)

+





+


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## FarsideOfCrazy (5/9/17)

25 years ago in another life I was a mechanic. We used a mobile thread repair guy to fix all sort of broken bolts, stripped threads even removed a broken easy out once. Maybe someone who has this kind of experience might be able to help. 

This guy was in Sydney but I'm sure there will be someone down there.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> I'm sure there will be someone down there.




Yep... I am onto somebody now, he is coming out tomorrow. For those playing along at home I will report back how he goes.

We tried the heat thing and as @TheWiggman suggested, it did not do much good. (Mind you, I didn't try hooking the breaker bar up to the tow ball on the ute...)


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## husky (5/9/17)

In my experience any effort to remove will be futile. 
I work with stainless a lot and have never come across any grades that do not require anti seize. Maybe you have just been lucky until now and have a bad batch of threads in this instance, once they start to bind its all over! 
My experience with seized stainless is usually nylon nuts when someone forgets the antisieze which is an easy grinder job. Yours is a bugger.
Interested to see how you go.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

husky said:


> In my experience any effort to remove will be futile.
> I work with stainless a lot and have never come across any grades that do not require anti seize. Maybe you have just been lucky until now and have a bad batch of threads in this instance, once they start to bind its all over!
> My experience with seized stainless is usually nylon nuts when someone forgets the antisieze which is an easy grinder job. Yours is a bugger.
> Interested to see how you go.



It is interesting that I am hearing this from so many people now that I have started to investigate...

I have been selling, installing, servicing and maintaining beer systems since 1998 in stadiums, breweries, clubs, pubs, and bars in many places in the world and never once used any form of anti seize on any of the installations I have done. I have never seen any form of anti seize on systems I have serviced or repaired that were installed by others. I have never seen anti seize offered for sale by any of the companies that I buy beer systems fittings from (including the supplier in this little episode. They still do not carry it, but now allegedly "have some on order".) So yeah, I guess I, and every other contractor I have met here in Australia and Asia and New Zealand and Europe have just been lucky.

I have certainly put the word out over the past couple of days to my colleagues in the industry!

I most definitely will never make the same mistake again.


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## homebrewnewb (5/9/17)

so what's the gist of all this, i mean this could presumably happen to someone like me dicking aorund with stainless fittings, is teflon tape enough?? where is the anti seize goo, is it food safe?
if i get thread stuck in an elbow, im ganna be pissed, not 1900$ pissed, but still... pretty shitty.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> so what's the gist of all this, i mean this could presumably happen to someone like me dicking aorund with stainless fittings, is teflon tape enough?? where is the anti seize goo, is it food safe?
> if i get thread stuck in an elbow, im ganna be pissed, not 1900$ pissed, but still... pretty shitty.


Not that I am any type of expert on the topic (yet) I reckon teflon tape for what you are doing will be fine mate. Sometimes tape is not practical to use in what I do.

This is the product that has been recommended to me. Although contact with the beer would be minimal, it is listed as being safe for use in breweries.

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_...7697&msdsLanguage=EN_AU&selectedTab=technical


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## laxation (5/9/17)

What stops you from just going nuts at it with some pneumatic wrench or something to undo it?
I don't quite understand how something like that can't be just undone (albeit with force) - but I have zero science/engineering knowledge whatsoever


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## homebrewnewb (5/9/17)

have quick wikipeida on galling, the crystalline structure is ruptured, so for all intents and purposes its welded together, pretty interesting but kind of scared to hear a case of it happening just past finger tight that's nqr to me.
disclaimer, what laxation said about science n stuff.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

laxation said:


> What stops you from just going nuts at it with some pneumatic wrench or something to undo it?
> I don't quite understand how something like that can't be just undone (albeit with force) - but I have zero science/engineering knowledge whatsoever




For all intents and purposes, it would be like ripping a weld apart,and make the manifold useless. The way things stand, I am still pretty confident of being able to rescue it.

Ideally, I still want to be able to use the female thread in the pipe manifold, even if I need to create a new one by getting another socket welded in as TheWiggman has suggested.

If I can't rescue the manifold I am up for at least another couple of gorillas.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> have quick wikipeida on galling, the crystalline structure is ruptured, so for all intents and purposes its welded together, pretty interesting but kind of scared to hear a case of it happening just past finger tight that's nqr to me.
> disclaimer, what laxation said about science n stuff.


I think the culprit in this case was pressure testing to the MWP which in this case is 60 psi.


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## husky (5/9/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> so what's the gist of all this, i mean this could presumably happen to someone like me dicking aorund with stainless fittings, is teflon tape enough?? where is the anti seize goo, is it food safe?
> if i get thread stuck in an elbow, im ganna be pissed, not 1900$ pissed, but still... pretty shitty.



Teflon tape is usually fine on its own for the home brewer. In the food industry we can't use Teflon tape but have other food grade options such as thread sealant for pipe fittings etc on water lines and anti sieze for nuts, bolts, unions etc. All food safe and I even use the anti sieze as a brewery lubricant for seals etc to get them to seal perfectly.


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## husky (5/9/17)

Pnutapper said:


> It is interesting that I am hearing this from so many people now that I have started to investigate...
> 
> ......... So yeah, I guess I, and every other contractor I have met here in Australia and Asia and New Zealand and Europe have just been lucky.
> 
> .



Hard to tell if that's sarcasm over the interwebs but it seems odd that the suppliers would not be recommending it. It was one of my first lessons day 1 out of uni and into the real world, no antisieze = grinder.


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## Pnutapper (5/9/17)

husky said:


> Hard to tell if that's sarcasm over the interwebs but it seems odd that the suppliers would not be recommending it. It was one of my first lessons day 1 out of uni and into the real world, no antisieze = grinder.



Not sarcasm directed at you... more ill expressed irony directed at the supplier in question. I meant you no offence.  (I really need to use more emoticons...)

I have now spoken to competing suppliers to ask if anti seize is necessary on their fittings, the answer is no. Even Keg King who source the cheapest sh!t they can find from China say they have not heard of basic 3/4" threads requiring anti seize.

It would not bug me so much if the supplier in question would just admit that they farked up, and perhaps meet me in the middle with my out of pocket expenses.(They have still not explained why the ball bearings in the snap lock adaptors are not stainless by the way.) It is perhaps of interest to note that in another lifetime, I worked for this particular supplier in both their Engineering Dept, and also their Service Dept. and never saw a can of anti seize the whole time I was there.


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## husky (5/9/17)

Are the threads you use parallel or tapered? I could maybe understand if they're all parallel and well made there would be no friction and therefore difficult to gall. Tapered threads are another story and presumably what you are using if they need to seal against liquid.


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## Matplat (5/9/17)

husky said:


> Are the threads you use parallel or tapered? I could maybe understand if they're all parallel and well made there would be no friction and therefore difficult to gall. Tapered threads are another story and presumably what you are using if they need to seal against liquid.



We use M12 bolts for securing aluminium drop side trays to their mounts where I work, and a while ago purchasing mistakenly bought a ton of them in stainless. Of the 12 bolts that secure a tray, at least 6 will bind up before they are fully tight if the fitters forget to put lubricant on, then its a pain in the arse job cutting them off with a grinder while the thing spins.... And for those that do make it on, you can bet they won't come off.


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## Thefatdoghead (5/9/17)

Just hit it with wd40. First tighten about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, then unscrew the fucker. 
It'll be damaged but you'll get away with running a tap through the socket. 
Dunno about using anti seize on this as it's not suitable for food grade equipment as far as I know. Tastes like shit too. 
Bit of oring grease maybe.


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/9/17)

This thread, galling, anti-seize, tape thing is a very interesting thread

For instance, doing head, con rod, main bolts, they have specific tensioning depending on the lubricant used... ie...dont use engine oil...

This thread may go far











yeah....pfft to your puns


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## Thefatdoghead (5/9/17)

Pnutapper said:


> Not sarcasm directed at you... more ill expressed irony directed at the supplier in question. I meant you no offence.  (I really need to use more emoticons...)
> 
> I have now spoken to competing suppliers to ask if anti seize is necessary on their fittings, the answer is no. Even Keg King who source the cheapest sh!t they can find from China say they have not heard of basic 3/4" threads requiring anti seize.
> 
> It would not bug me so much if the supplier in question would just admit that they farked up, and perhaps meet me in the middle with my out of pocket expenses.(They have still not explained why the ball bearings in the snap lock adaptors are not stainless by the way.) It is perhaps of interest to note that in another lifetime, I worked for this particular supplier in both their Engineering Dept, and also their Service Dept. and never saw a can of anti seize the whole time I was there.



I Did my trade as a fitter. I've been a marine engineer for 14 years.
The only time ill use anti seize is bolts and flanges.
For pipework its locktight liquid Teflon or Teflon tape. 
I've never used anti seize in my brewery. Why would you? If it got into the system it would be a nightmare. 
It gets everywhere too


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/9/17)

For all intents and purposes, it would be like ripping a weld apart,and make the manifold useless. The way things stand, I am still pretty confident of being able to rescue it.

Ideally, I still want to be able to use the female thread in the pipe manifold, even if I need to create a new one by getting another socket welded in as TheWiggman has suggested.

If I can't rescue the manifold I am up for at least another couple of gorillas.


Respect Brother

You have taken the path of " I dont want to **** this... I will work it out"... Its the BEST way to learn something, something you will use in the future, unlike, lets just say, an angle grinder

30yrs latter as a Tradie, I still use this method


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

husky said:


> Are the threads you use parallel or tapered? I could maybe understand if they're all parallel and well made there would be no friction and therefore difficult to gall. Tapered threads are another story and presumably what you are using if they need to seal against liquid.



Yes mate they are 3/4" BSPT


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

Thefatdoghead said:


> Just hit it with wd40. First tighten about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn, then unscrew the fucker.
> It'll be damaged but you'll get away with running a tap through the socket.
> Dunno about using anti seize on this as it's not suitable for food grade equipment as far as I know. Tastes like shit too.
> Bit of oring grease maybe.



WD40 would be as effective as water. the threads are fused. Even with a breaker bar, the thread will not budge at all. This is effectively a weld we are talking about here.

The Loctite product I linked earlier is allegedly being used in breweries around the world. Once I have reintroduced beer to the manifold tomorrow, I will be able to comment on whether I agree it is a beer friendly product.


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## Matplat (6/9/17)

I'm confused as to why teflon isn't considered food grade, if I'm not wrong, my fry pan at home that gets heated to 250° with food all over it is coated in the stuff???


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

Matplat said:


> I'm confused as to why teflon isn't considered food grade, if I'm not wrong, my fry pan at home that gets heated to 250° with food all over it is coated in the stuff???


 My belief is that it is safe until it is over heated. (I don't know how hot that is.) When you breathe kitchen air polluted with fumes from overheated Teflon, you're at risk of developing flu-like symptoms. I have read stories about pets becoming gravely ill and or dying from "Teflon Flu"


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## Matplat (6/9/17)

Wow, never heard of 'Teflon flu' before.... I specified 250° because I bought a new fry pan a week or two ago, and it was advertised as having a max temperature rating of 250°.... aside from a gas burner (if you use one) I can't imagine any piece of brewery/serving equipment that's functioning correctly reaching anywhere near that temp.


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## Matplat (6/9/17)

Wikipedia says:

"*Polymer fume fever* or *fluoropolymer fever*, also informally called *Teflon flu*, is an inhalation fever caused by the fumes released when polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, known under the trade name Teflon) reaches temperatures of 300 °C (572 °F) to 450 °C (842 °F).[1] When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury.[_citation needed_] Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of PTFE. A high white blood cell count may be seen and chest x-ray findings are usually minimal."


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## 2cranky (6/9/17)

Matplat said:


> I'm confused as to why teflon isn't considered food grade, if I'm not wrong, my fry pan at home that gets heated to 250° with food all over it is coated in the stuff???


I think it will be more of an issue with the tape in layers wrapped around the thread. Plenty of nice cosey places for bacteria to live.
Anything food grade will be inert and not provide a home for bacteria.


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## 2cranky (6/9/17)

Matplat said:


> Wikipedia says:
> 
> "*Polymer fume fever* or *fluoropolymer fever*, also informally called *Teflon flu*, is an inhalation fever caused by the fumes released when polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE, known under the trade name Teflon) reaches temperatures of 300 °C (572 °F) to 450 °C (842 °F).[1] When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury.[_citation needed_] Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of PTFE. A high white blood cell count may be seen and chest x-ray findings are usually minimal."


huh! I get the same when I burn chilies!


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## Matplat (6/9/17)

2cranky said:


> I think it will be more of an issue with the tape in layers wrapped around the thread. Plenty of nice cosey places for bacteria to live.
> Anything food grade will be inert and not provide a home for bacteria.



Righto, that makes sense...


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## husky (6/9/17)

double post


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## husky (6/9/17)

Matplat said:


> I'm confused as to why teflon isn't considered food grade, if I'm not wrong, my fry pan at home that gets heated to 250° with food all over it is coated in the stuff???



Teflon tape breaks off and contaminates the product.


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## husky (6/9/17)

Here is what we use:


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

For those playing along at home...

Step 1: Cut nipple & fuse thread.

Step 2: Cut socket to size.

Step 3: Wait for the expert to show up to weld socket in place.


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

husky said:


> Here is what we use:
> 
> View attachment 108130



That is the one that has been recommended to me by a few people. Thanks for confirming.


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## Meddo (6/9/17)

Does that stuff act as a thread sealant as well? I've been having trouble with some 1/2" BSPT hex nipples in elbows and ball valves leaking profusely at mains water pressure - I've used the standard two wraps of pink teflon tape then upped that to four but no good.


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## husky (6/9/17)

That BSM union in your pic is where we would more commonly be using this anti sieze as its product contact and if they sieze its a bitch. You don't generally see any threaded fittings in food applications, is that a beer line?


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## husky (6/9/17)

Meddo said:


> Does that stuff act as a thread sealant as well? I've been having trouble with some 1/2" BSPT hex nipples in elbows and ball valves leaking profusely at mains water pressure - I've used the standard two wraps of pink teflon tape then upped that to four but no good.



There's better stuff to use if you want a good seal, Ill have to wait until I'm home to take a pic but its a loctite product which is a liquid Teflon and dries hard. I use it on brewery LPG threaded fittings. Anti seize stays as a paste.


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## Meddo (6/9/17)

Great, thanks Husky. Can the sealant be removed afterwards or does it become set forever?


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

husky said:


> That BSM union in your pic is where we would more commonly be using this anti sieze as its product contact and if they sieze its a bitch. You don't generally see any threaded fittings in food applications, is that a beer line?


It is a 3" OD stainless distribution manifold for beer. The BSM nut holds a sight glass in place.

The system was installed by Courage in the mid 70's. It comprises 3 x 5000 Lt holding tanks that are piped to 3 x 8 way distribution manifolds, which when fitted with the 2 way block manifolds as pictured in post one, feed up to 48 beer lines.


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## husky (6/9/17)

Meddo said:


> Great, thanks Husky. Can the sealant be removed afterwards or does it become set forever?



Yeah can be removed.


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## Mardoo (6/9/17)

Very curious about this liquid teflon. Assume it'll cost my left nut, but could be worth it.


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## Pnutapper (6/9/17)

And here is the finished job. (note the anti seize thread paste!)

I would recommend this bloke to anyone.


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## good4whatAlesU (6/9/17)

Nice job. Welding is a skill which I do not possess - I admire those that can do it well.


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## husky (8/9/17)

husky said:


> Yeah can be removed.



I'm using the one on the left for water lines with threaded valves and the one on the right for gas lines.
Either is fine for both however.


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## Pnutapper (8/9/17)

husky said:


> I'm using the one on the left for water lines with threaded valves and the one on the right for gas lines.
> Either is fine for both however.
> 
> View attachment 108178



+1 for the Loxeal.

One of the few products I will buy from Bunnings. Only around 15 bucks if I remember correctly.


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## Meddo (12/9/17)

husky said:


> I'm using the one on the left for water lines with threaded valves and the one on the right for gas lines.
> Either is fine for both however.
> 
> View attachment 108178



Thanks mate. If either is fine for both application, is there any reason you use both products as you do? I need to seal some threads against mains pressure water on the CFC, and also wort on my pump inlet/outlet - it seems like Loxeal is easier to get a hold of so any good reason to try a bit harder and get the Loctite instead? Happy to make the effort if it's worth doing...

Cheers,


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## husky (12/9/17)

I prefer the loxeal so go with that. Can't recall why I have both but suspect it's to try a few options and settle on what works best. The loxeal dries hard the locktite does not so for pressure you are going to want the loxeal anyway. I believe the locktite claims if you let it set it will seal but I had a go last week on a mains water pressure line and it didn't work(could have been due to poor preparation).


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## Meddo (12/9/17)

husky said:


> I prefer the loxeal so go with that. Can't recall why I have both but suspect it's to try a few options and settle on what works best. The loxeal dries hard the locktite does not so for pressure you are going to want the loxeal anyway. I believe the locktite claims if you let it set it will seal but I had a go last week on a mains water pressure line and it didn't work(could have been due to poor preparation).



Great, thanks for that.


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## MHB (12/9/17)

Used buckets of 567, just keep it in a container, if the tube leaks in your tool box, there goes a whole week wasted cleaning it all up.
Use an sealer/anti-seize and you have no problems ever with galling, threads freezing, leaking... Don't and you may well spend a lot of time and money trying to undo the job later.
Plenty of good food grade options on market, but I'm a happy Loctite customer.
Mark


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## Pnutapper (12/9/17)

MHB said:


> Don't and you may well spend a lot of time and money trying to undo the job later.
> Plenty of good food grade options on market, but I'm a happy Loctite customer.
> Mark



Amen to that... Total of $2800 out of pocket expenses for a routine run of the mill job!

I have had many people recommend the food grade Loctite anti - seize. The guy who bailed me out of the sh!t with his welding skills recommended this product though, so I have 2 different types now. Haven't got the bill for the Loctite yet, but this product was a shade over $100 for 454g can.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (12/9/17)

If you don't want to use antiseize / sealant and wish to avoid galling a permanent solution is to flow Harris 56% silver onto one of the threads with an oxy torch. 

If you are careful the layer will be thin enough that the stainless on the opposing thread will simply make its own way when the parts are mated. If you find yourself forcing it, back out and re-tap the thread you coated in silver. Again if you are careful you'll cut the silver back but not off so the remaining layer will protect against galling.


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## MHB (12/9/17)

The Loctite is thixotropic, so smooth it into the thread gently, I use a matchstick and gently puddle it into the male thread, try to get it down into the thread root, clean up any excess immediately (a bit of white spirit is good).
LC
Ok I can see that working, but it would be a very slow, painstaking operation, 50%+ solder flows like cold tar, be interesting to see if one of the tin/silver soft solders worked, I'm dated enough to have worked on screwing gauge copper installations (restoring old houses) they were tinned before screwing, often soldered to, but 100 odd years later you can still undo them, which I cant see happening with modern copper/brass - let alone Stainless fittings, especially the random alloy that come from some countries. Anyone wants to try silvering a thread, get a good thread file first.
Mark


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (12/9/17)

Harris 56 flows like water if you use the right flux (Stay-Silv White). I can flow it into a 0.1mm gap that's 25mm deep and get complete penetration.

Most tin based solder formulations won't wet stainless. Harris make a 6% (Stay Brite 8) that does but I haven't used it so I can't comment. When I need to make an electrical connection to stainless I flow 56 onto the SS part and then solder to that using a standard electrical solder.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (12/9/17)

Before 





Flux




Brazed




cleaned




Joined

Time stamp on the camera tells me the whole operation took 12 minutes, most of which was cooling time before cleaning off the flux.


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/9/17)

Lyrebird... I want to marry you after that post


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## Meddo (24/10/17)

Hey @husky, @Pnutapper, how long do you normally leave the Loxeal before using? Manufacturer's recommendation is a week for stainless fittings, but given the sealant is rated for higher temps and pressures than I'll be running I suspect that that might be a bit conservative. I re-did the hotside 3/4" BSP fittings on my pump and also the mains water 1/2" fittings on my counterflow chiller on Friday and hoping to be brewing with them tomorrow (five days). Cheers,


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## husky (24/10/17)

I left mine overnight then used them all good but most of mine are BSPT. If using BSPP then I would say you need the full curing time. I had one connection that was BSPP and was no good after only 1 day curing so I had to thread tape it.


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## Pnutapper (24/10/17)

Like husky, most of the threads I use the Loxeal on are tapered threads. I have used the connection off a gas reg within 5 - 6 hrs (1/4"BSP).

All care, no responsibility... I would chance it if it was me.


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