# Reassurance with first brew



## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Hey guys,

Finally put down my first brew, the coopers lager can with 1kg of Dry Malt Extract, instead of the BE1 that came with the coopers DIY beer kit, as recommended.

I got a OG of around 1.045 when I first started the brew, somewhere between 1.04 and 1.05, looked to me like it was in the middle.

The froth at the top of the brew appeared 24 hours after brew day. But I would say fermenting was over in ~24-48 hours after that.

There is a layer of, I guess, malt, as its white on the bottle of the FV, im assuming this is the malt settling to the bottom?

Im fermenting in a temp controlled fridge at 18 degress.

Yeast I used was Safale S-04. Pitch temp was a bit high at 26 degrees but the Safale instructions suggest anything over 21 is ok.

So just checked the FG again, its on 1.015, has been there for 2 days now.

Does this mean my brew is done? If so, how long should I wait for the clean up, before I cold crash? I guess its expected, but the brew at the moment is a bit fizzy, doesn't taste very nice, quite thin and almost winey / cidery, but I guess that will change in the bottle? I don't think its infected I was pretty mental with hygene.

Thanks for your help fellows!

CS


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Oh perhaps the first line of the Safale page on S04 helps with a couple of my worries: 


　


> English ale yeast selected for its fast fermentation character and its ability to form a compact sediment at the end of fermentation, helping to improve beer clarity.


http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_S04.pdf


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## luggy (27/12/14)

Haven't done kits for a while now but your OG seems low and your FG seems high, at those numbers your beer would be at about 3.9% abv. Hopefully one of the kit brewers can confirm.

If I were you id give the fermenter a gentle swirl to rouse the yeast and bump up the temp a couple of degrees to try and knock a few more points off your FG


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Heres is a photo of the FV (if that helps). The temp sensor was (mostly) attached to the side of the FV with foam, I have removed it in the photo.

I have increased the temp to 20 degrees. I have just done another check on the FG and its definitely 1.015, maybe 16.


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

chromesphere said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Finally put down my first brew, the coopers lager can with 1kg of Dry Malt Extract, instead of the BE1 that came with the coopers DIY beer kit, as recommended.
> 
> ...



Cheers.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

THanks Bomber, you have put my mind at ease.

Ahh..only thing worrying now though is the FG! Its been stuck on 1.015 for 2 days now, hasn't changed a bit. Should I swirl the fv and turn up the temp like luggy suggested? (ive already turned it up to 20).

Cheers
CS


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## michaeld16 (27/12/14)

Give it a gentle swirl mate so4 can floculate pretty quickly before getting the job fully done


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Thanks Michael, I have pulled it out and swooshed it around a bit. Turned up the temp to 20. Will monitor it over the next couple of days.


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

Yep, i had to do this with an english ale im doing atm with WLP002 to get it to settle down. 

Bit of a swirl, bump the temp up a touch, it finished its job, left for a few more days then CC. 

Cheers.


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

I should prolly add to, I wouldnt have used S-04 with a coopers Larger tin. 

It would probably go alright with a coopers real ale tin plus LDME though. 

If your chasing a "Larger" type taste but dont feel like doing a true larger, US-05 or similar fermented fairly cold (16 or so) gets you some where close. 

But hey, for a first brew your a lot further advanced than i was, I was fermenting on the kitchen table with kit yeast and dextrose/BE1/BE2 for over two years before i discovered this forum and found out about temp control and extracts and lme andthe like. So good on you., 

Cheers.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Thanks Bomber! 

To be honest, I have no idea what i'm after lol I just read that the lager can comes with Ale Yeast, then searched for replacement ale yeast and I think the first thing I found mentioned s04 so I went with it! I was going to make a hop tea and all sorts of other stuff but just trying to keep it relatively simple for the first one.

I will update on the FG results for any others reading this thread / having similar questions.

Thanks all for the help (so far) 

CS


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

Ultimately, you are in the process of making beer. 

Whatever you end up with, will be beer. 

Beer is good, regardless of how bad it is 

Ergo, what you have done is good . 

Your next step, and my first step from brewing on the kitchen table with kit and kilo jobs, is to go to your local dan murphys and grab heaps of craft beer, if you havnt tried much other than the basic mainstream shit then stick to apa's and the like, if you are more adventurous then the specialty section shelves are your oyster....

Find out what you like, then find out how to replicate it, and this will help you build your own recipes, and then such be considered a god among your friends for your amazing ability of being able to craft beverages for $2 a tallie that would cost $10 a stubbie in the bottleshop, or some horsecrap like that....Im still getting there haha. 

Welcome to the slipperly slope....What starts off as a cheap way to make beer quickly becomes an expensive hobby to rival model railroading or motorsport..... in all the three hobbies i have.....

Cheers.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Cheers Bomber! My brain is somewhat organised for information gathering, im a prominent member in the DIY guitar pedal community (Profile pic). YOu quickly learn that there is a 'proper' way of doing things. I like to end up with good results no matter what im doing, so researching is an essential step. I think ive got most of the right processes for fermenting in place, just not the brewing side or experience (obviously) yet.

My friend is big into craft beer and brought around some of his favourites last night. A couple (I remember lol) were Feral Smoked Porter, mornington brown ale, and a mountain goat, I think it was Hightail Ale from memory. These were all pretty heavy for my tastes, I prefer lighter beers particularly with the current climate, but it was nice to expand into unfamiliar territory. I think I nice light or amber, lightly bittered, floral beer would be something that I would like to brew next. Still kit and kilo, but this time with hops perhaps. Or really anything half decent in the lighter beer range.

Anyway, just rambling


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## panzerd18 (27/12/14)

You can still add hops. You can add something like 25 grams of Cascade in now to get some nice aroma going. Search for dry hopping. Its pretty easy, just put the correct amount into the fermentor several days before bottling.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Well I have 50g cascade pellets!! What do I do, just chuck them in?


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## BrosysBrews (27/12/14)

Yep, try 1g/l to for this one and can go up or down from there for your next depending on how much of a hop head you are. Leave them in for at least a few days before cold crashing to clear and bottling.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

No worries! I will probably go on the lesser side to start off with in case im not keen on the flavour.

I have one more question before I chuck them in. When I chuck them in, do I...chuck them in? So like, grab a handful, toss them in? How does all the particles get filter out of the beer? I have a muslin bag I can use, but not sure if I have anything stainless steel to sink the bag. (a sterilised teaspoon?)


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## Feldon (27/12/14)

The jury is still out on whether you should bag the hops when you dry hop, or just chuck them in.

Some people think that the greater exposure of the hops to the beer by chucking them in gets more of the aroma compounds distributed into the beer. Some bag users think it makes no difference.

In time, loose hops will sink to the bottom if just chucked in. But sometimes you might get a non-conformist hop floaty in your glass (expect women and kids to scream and jump up on chairs, chooks to stop laying, and your cows to go dry). But to me that's just how naturally made beer is. We have become conditioned to the sterile commercial product to some extent.

Welcome, mate.


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

Feldon said:


> In time, loose hops will sink to the bottom if just chucked in. But sometimes you might get a non-conformist hop floaty in your glass (expect women and kids to scream and jump up on chairs, chooks to stop laying, and your cows to go dry).


Pissing myself laughing, so true.


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## BrosysBrews (27/12/14)

Just chuck in mate! If your not happy can change next time!


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## panzerd18 (27/12/14)

Chuck in half of your 50 grams.

When you cold crash, it should sink to the bottom and give you no issues.

Your beer is sounding more and more tasty now.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Thanks guys for helping improve this brew, I don't want to get ahead of myself but I think for a first brew it might be a pretty good!

One final question about the dry hop  Should I defrost the hops (their in the freezer) first, or throw them in frozen. Also, should I wait till the FG is lower then 1.015? Thanks again!


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

Get scales, pull hops from freezer, weigh out however many grams you waint, tip them in 

Cheers.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Done and Dusted! Their in!


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## michaeld16 (27/12/14)

I used to chuck em in commando until on an ipa hop particles kept blocking up the bottling wand but previpus to that i never had a problem. Chromesphere the fact that youve already onto temp control and concerned about sanitation and its only ya first brew shows ya gonna make some good beer


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

Did you have a good sniff first?

Nothing like the smell of hops straight from the freezer. 

Forgot to mention that part, so my post should have been:

Get scales, pull hops from freezer, smell hops, weigh out however many grams you want, smell hops, tip them in, smell the rest of the hops in the bag before putting them back in the freezer 

Cheers.


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

michaeld16 said:


> I used to chuck em in commando until on an ipa hop particles kept blocking up the bottling wand but previpus to that i never had a problem.


Out of curiosity, how big was the dry hop?

My flagship brew, Six Banger DIPA has a 80gm dry hop, and havnt had that problem after a week at 1 degree, wondering if its something im doing or if you just had a ridiculous amount?

Agree with the latter part, he's onto it.


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## michaeld16 (27/12/14)

Was a long time ago before i could be bothered with cold crashing. Bout a 100g and i remember having alot of trub early on in the ferment

Edit speeling


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

Ah yep that will definitely do it.


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## chromesphere (27/12/14)

Oh yeah, I sniffed the hell out of it. And forced everyone within a 30 meter radius to do the same 

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I have been preparing this first brew for about 6 weeks now, as I said early, I want to do it right the first time. That said, im leaving my expectations at the door. Honestly, if its even drinkable im going to be really happy!


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## Feldon (27/12/14)

Bomber Watson said:


> Did you have a good sniff first?


For a moment there I had a flashback to an old girlfriend.


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## Bomber Watson (27/12/14)

If females smelt as good as fresh cascade pellets i'd probably be married......


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## michaeld16 (27/12/14)

Bomber Watson said:


> If females smelt as good as fresh cascade pellets i'd probably be married......


They start out nice and fresh but degrade over time.... havnt tried keeping her in the freezer yet


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## Mattrox (27/12/14)

chromesphere said:


> Oh yeah, I sniffed the hell out of it. And forced everyone within a 30 meter radius to do the same
> 
> Thanks for the encouragement guys. I have been preparing this first brew for about 6 weeks now, as I said early, I want to do it right the first time. That said, im leaving my expectations at the door. Honestly, if its even drinkable im going to be really happy!


Sounds like everything is going well.

I make my Mrs smell the hops. Everytime I do she says "I hate beer". Lol


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## BottloBill (28/12/14)

Very advanced for your first brew, you'll be doing all grain in no timeB)


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## panzerd18 (28/12/14)

Also too, if it tastes average at the end of fermentation, don't worry. Beer improves with age, so what would be an average beer at day 1 of bottling, is a fantastic beer 3 months on.


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## chromesphere (28/12/14)

Thanks Panzerd. A friend of mine tasted it today. He agreed, tasted somewhere between, not very nice and marginally ok. but thought that it still tasted much like what he had brewed (a few years ago when he brewed). Also now the hops are in, might give it a bit more pizzazz.

Im not convinced that this brew still needs to ferment further (its still on 1.015). The first thing that comes up with google seach "coopers lager FG" is this:
https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/10672/

Im still hopeful that it will turn out ok. Time will tell!

So I will probably leave the hops for another 2 days (total of 3) then cold crash for, I guess, 3 more days?


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## panzerd18 (28/12/14)

If the specific gravity has not changed in 3 days then cold crash.


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## chromesphere (28/12/14)

No worries Panzerd will do. There are 2 days left on the hops, the FG has been 1.015 for approx. 3 days, so it will be at FG 1.015 total of 5 by the time dry hopping is 'done'.


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## Bomber Watson (28/12/14)

I have yet to try it, but a few lads here dry hop during cold crashing and have reported great results, so if i was in a bit of a pinch i wouldnt heasitate to cold crash wilst dry hopping. 

That said, if it was me, i'd just let it ride out a few more days. By in a pinch i mean have to go away for a week ot so....

That said, im far from experienced......

Cheers.


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## chromesphere (28/12/14)

Yeah I think 2 days then CC is the plan. Unless the FG changes of course, but its pretty dam stable at the moment!


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## panzerd18 (28/12/14)

Has the krausen fallen? If so I doubt it will move down any more.


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## chromesphere (28/12/14)

Yeah, check out the photo I posted on page 1, pretty much hasn't changed except now there is a layer of hops on the top


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## Tasspark (5/1/15)

Hi everyone, here is a newbie question! (well, just checking if i understand)
What is cold crashing? Correct me if I am wrong, but is it when you cool your beer down to a few degrees before kegging? 
you wouldn't do this if bottling right! Kills the yeast? Wont 2nd ferment in bottle?

By the way, you guys had my family wondering what I was suddenly laughing at with your comments above! 

I've just bottled my first brew on Sunday (Just a Coopers Pale Ale Kit with BE2) and it smelt great when I bottled! Cant wait for a few weeks to pass to try it!
As you mentioned chromesphere, Ive been trying to learn as much as possible too.

Since the family bought me the kit for Christmas, I've found myself getting keener and keener (Im hooked and Ive just started!) to make beers more my style (Tasty, Hoppy, Malty, Ales!)
So much so, that I picked up a 2nd FV and now have two more brews on the go! One is a Black Rock Pale ale with BE1 + 15g Cascade Hops
The other is a Little Creatures Pale ale clone recipe.
Mangrove Jacks Blonde Lager with 1kg Brew Enhancer, 250g wheat light spraymalt, 15g of Cascade and 15g of willamette finishing hops and Safale US-05 yeast.
Hope it turns out ok.

Anyone think the last one should be ok?
It smelt good when I mixed it all up!


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## BrosysBrews (5/1/15)

Cold crashing is when you cool the beer as you suggest, I belive people still do so when they bottle as there is a s&$t load of yeast still to get going again, however I can't cold crash as my ferm fridge is average and I don't bother as I reakon it would use a shit load of power.
Re the last batch looks good mate, don't be afraid to move onto straight malt extraxt rather then the blends makes a difference. Also if you feeling keen why not try a boil on the next and do your own hop additions? Look at the recipe database!


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## paulyman (5/1/15)

I recently grabbed a cheap chest freezer for fermenting. I cold crash and bottle, works a treat. Haven't tried dry hopping while cold crashing, may try that one day.


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## Tasspark (5/1/15)

BrosysBrews said:


> Cold crashing is when you cool the beer as you suggest, I belive people still do so when they bottle as there is a s&$t load of yeast still to get going again, however I can't cold crash as my ferm fridge is average and I don't bother as I reakon it would use a shit load of power.
> Re the last batch looks good mate, don't be afraid to move onto straight malt extraxt rather then the blends makes a difference. Also if you feeling keen why not try a boil on the next and do your own hop additions? Look at the recipe database!


Thanks Brosy,
Dont worry, Ive checked out heaps of BIAB recipes and once I've brewed, bottled and tasted a few of my first attempts, I will give a few BIAB recipes a go.
Or at least a few hybrids (what do you call it when you use a can plus some steeped grain?)

when you say "don't be afraid to move onto straight malt extract rather then the blends" do you mean the tins of malt extract without hops? used instead of dry sugars?
What would your newbie recipe be for a nice English style beer?


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## Tasspark (5/1/15)

paulyman said:


> I recently grabbed a cheap chest freezer for fermenting. I cold crash and bottle, works a treat. Haven't tried dry hopping while cold crashing, may try that one day.


So Paulyman, can you walk me through what you do when you CC and bottle? When, what temp. etc....
I thought the ale yeast died when it got too cold!?? 
Once you bottle, what temp do you store your bottles at and for how long?


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## wereprawn (5/1/15)

There will be more than enough yeast left to carb your beer. A bottles worth of home brew would probably still contain billions of yeast cells after a few days cold crashing. Crash as cold as you can at anything 0 or just above. My old fermenting fridge only gets down to about 6 c for ccing but it still helps clear and condition even at that fairly high temp.


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## paulyman (5/1/15)

I'm by no means an expert and still new to it all.

But once fermentation has finished I usually do a D-rest at 22 degrees for a day or two to make sure no diacetyl is in there. I may be dry hopping at the same time as well depending on the style. Once the D-rest and/or the dry hop is complete I drop the temp to 1 degree for a week, usually over the course of 24 hours.

I then take the fermentor out and bottle as is. I've read on here not to bother letting it come up to ambient before bottling so just go with that. I then leave the bottles at ambient in my spare room (18-26 depending on the season) for a minimum of two weeks to carb up. I have found that since bottling at lower temps I often need closer to 3 weeks to carb up.


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## BrosysBrews (5/1/15)

Tasspark said:


> Thanks Brosy,
> Dont worry, Ive checked out heaps of BIAB recipes and once I've brewed, bottled and tasted a few of my first attempts, I will give a few BIAB recipes a go.
> Or at least a few hybrids (what do you call it when you use a can plus some steeped grain?)
> 
> ...


Sorry mate not an English fan. Check out the recipe data base though few in there, basically you use unhoped extract either in a tin or dry then boil with your hop additions. Also download Ianhs spreadsheet (kit and extract and biab additions available) and have a go at designing your own! Generally kits plus grains and hops are called kits and bits.


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## drtomc (5/1/15)

I've never cold crashed a beer (I don't have a brewing fridge). Just letting it stand for a week or two achieves a lot of the same effect. It does require patience though. ;-)

T.


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## Tasspark (5/1/15)

Ok, I've got a fridge that will fit my FV, I'll have to strengthen the bottom shelf though! 
So once my FG is stable for two or three days, do I just put the FV in and chill for a few more at 1 or 2c then bottle? 
Still store bottles at 18 or 20c ?

.... Just posted and realised my Q's were answered! Thanks! ....


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## paulyman (5/1/15)

drtomc said:


> I've never cold crashed a beer (I don't have a brewing fridge). Just letting it stand for a week or two achieves a lot of the same effect. It does require patience though. ;-)
> 
> T.


I'm still trying to follow the P word, man it's hard. I think it's the hardest part of learning to brew.


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## paulyman (5/1/15)

Tasspark said:


> Ok, I've got a fridge that will fit my FV, I'll have to strengthen the bottom shelf though!
> So once my FG is stable for two or three days, do I just put the FV in and chill for a few more at 1 or 2c then bottle?
> Still store bottles at 18 or 20c ?


If it'll fit, sure that will work fine. Once the cold crash has done its job you want to let the bottles come back up to ambient to warm the yeasties up to work their magic.


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## chromesphere (14/1/15)

I cracked open my first beer from my first home brew today and thought I would update the thread. 

It's been bottle for approx. 10 days and of course its still very green, but I wanted to see how it was going and also observe the change in flavour as well.

Now, amongst my friends I'm reputably not fussing when it comes to beer so take it with a grain of salt. Also, the one I tried was the last in the run, had heaps of crude. It carbed ok, didn't last too long though, which is prob because of the limited time in the bottle. This ones a bit cloudy (coopers pale ale cloudy approximately). The others will probably be a bit better. Still pretty clear though for a garage job lol. Flavour wise its a bit of a mish mash which is what you guys warned me about. Tastes a bit like the cascade and the bitterness of the lager are competing for attention. Also should mention, only chilled the bottle for drinking (approx. 1 hour instead of 2+ days). So theres a lot of things working against it...but...

Overall its pretty good, I like it! I really wasn't expecting my first beer to be even drinkable let alone 'nice' and its not even close to bottle conditioned  

Also, I know a lot of people have said that dry hopping only imparts aroma but I can swear I can taste them as well...Would it be flavours from the lager can / malt im tasting and not the hops prehaps? I can DEFINITELY smell them, infact I think that's all I can smell 

So im calking this one up to a success!! What a great way to start a new hobby / addiction / marriage


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## indica86 (14/1/15)

Dry hopping contributes aroma.
Having said that have you eaten with a blocked nose?
Aroma contributes significantly to taste.

BTW if you like Coopers OS lager + BE1 it is only up from there. The vast majority of Coopers' cans tase way better than that


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## manticle (14/1/15)

Of course you can taste dry hops. They also contribute bitterness (just not from isomerised alpha acid/ibu contribution).


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## chromesphere (14/1/15)

I used lager can + 1kg LDM + 25g cascade and safale s-04 fermented in temp controlled fridge, so I guess I did all the 'right things' in that respect. Maybe I should have started with lager can + be1 in 25 degrees cupboard! lol


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## indica86 (14/1/15)

Negative. 38°c shed down the back is the go. Bottle after 7 days then drink after 7 more.


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## chromesphere (14/1/15)

lol Indica! I bet that was how my friend brewed some of his homebrew I tasted a number of years ago. Tasted more like wine + water then beer


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