# 'Craft' beer tax to be Fed Election issue



## Feldon (18/3/17)

Forget climate change, gay marriage and Putin-bashing; this should be the political battleground of the next Fed Election.





*Craft beer industry slugged with 'outdated' tax 'from another era', brewers fight Government for fairer deal*
ABC News, 17 Mar 2017

_Australia's booming craft beer industry is demanding a fairer deal from the Federal Government, saying the current tax regime is holding it back._

The number of craft breweries has more than doubled in the past five years to over 400 nationwide.

Despite standing out as a bright spot in the flailing manufacturing sector, craft brewers say they are being hurt by Australia's two-tier beer tax regime.

"It's just crazy, it's outdated, it's from another era," Willie the Boatman brewery co-owner Pat McInerney said.

The tax office slugs brewers based on how much pure alcohol is in their beer.

Pure alcohol is taxed at about $34 a litre if full-strength beer is sold in a 50 litre keg.

The identical beer in smaller packaging, such as bottles or more compact kegs, attracts an excise of $49 per litre.

Boutique breweries say they want to supply restaurants and bars with smaller kegs, providing fresher beer and allowing venues to rotate their selection, but say the discrepancy makes it uneconomical.

"The fact that we are unable to sell a 30 litre keg at the same tax rate as a 50 litre keg is ridiculous," Mr McInerney said.

(more at: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-17/craft-beer-industry-fights-for-fairer-tax-regime/8365450 )


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## Yob (18/3/17)

even mead attracts a WET..

dafuq...

system is well fucked up


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## Bonenose (18/3/17)

Now that is UN-AUSTRALIAN!!!!


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## ScottyDoesntKnow (18/3/17)

I think America has done something similar, or they are trying to anyway. I love the idea of having breweries local to your area competing with each other and being able to make a fair profit. It means both the consumer and business win. I imagine the current tax has kept a huge number of great beers in brewers garages instead of out in the public where they should be.


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## Stouter (18/3/17)

If it's making someone money, the government wants a slice.
No doubt though that slice needs to be fair and equitable.


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## Stouter (18/3/17)

ScottyDoesntKnow said:


> I think America has done something similar, or they are trying to anyway. I love the idea of having breweries local to your area competing with each other and being able to make a fair profit. It means both the consumer and business win. I imagine the current tax has kept a huge number of great beers in brewers garages instead of out in the public where they should be.


The craft brewing doco on Netflux, Craft Nation might be, that showed how the seppos changed things for the better in their local community and economies with craft brewing and tap rooms. Certainly a flow on effect and better employment opportunities than the large breweries. There was parts also regarding the taxes and restrictions where one state didn't allow tap room sales, etc. Interesting watch.


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## mtb (18/3/17)

Crafting A Nation. Looks like a good watch


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## TheWiggman (18/3/17)

I'm fine with tax as long as there is a reason for it. I get that alcohol is taxed because by and large alcohol is a huge issue in society. Drink driving, alcoholism, domestic and public violence, a drain on the health system etc. so making it less affordable theoretically reduces the impact that this will have. Without it much of those issues would be eliminated or greatly alleviated. And yes I acknowledge alcohol would likely be substituted for another substance, and there are other influences, but there is a fair reason it is taxed. How _much _it is taxed is another story...
_"The fact that we are unable to sell a 30 litre keg at the same tax rate as a 50 litre keg is ridiculous," Mr McInerney said."_ - completely agree. Is society better off because a beer tapped from a smaller keg costs more? Will it improve public health because the larger kegs are more affordable? If there's no logical reason, I can't see why a different tax rate should exist.


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## good4whatAlesU (18/3/17)

Hmmmm I wonder if we check the political party donations list and see how much is coming from CUB and Kirin?...

When the Prime minister gets the obligatory "photo shoot' at the Local pub' I bet it's better for votes if he's not at a swanky bearded hipster bar.


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## Stouter (18/3/17)

With the reportedly rising influence of minority parties maybe there's an opening for something like the Fishers Shooters Farmers Party.
We could call it the Crafties Brewers and Pissheads Party.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/3/17)

I don't think either party is interested in forming any policies, with the party leaders we have they are more interested in 'one upmanship' and if Turnbull so much as mentioned a tax cut, Shorten will oppose it. (as in company tax)


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## madpierre06 (18/3/17)

good4whatAlesU said:


> Hmmmm I wonder if we check the political party donations list and see how much is coming from CUB and Kirin?...
> 
> When the Prime minister gets the obligatory "photo shoot' at the Local pub' I bet it's better for votes if he's not at a swanky bearded hipster bar.


This is the sting in the tail.......


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## knot_gillty (4/4/17)

Stouter said:


> With the reportedly rising influence of minority parties maybe there's an opening for something like the Fishers Shooters Farmers Party.
> We could call it the Crafties Brewers and Pissheads Party.


Or hit up these smaller parties regarding your objection/concerns to the tax. Most of these smaller parties (SFFP, LDP etc) love nothing more than objecting against something the government of the time is proposing/doing.


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## mash head (4/4/17)

Doesnt seem to mention that small breweries get a fair chunk of their excise back, apparently under the wet tax if you make less than a set amount you dont even need to pay. I feel sorry for the boutiqe distillers who have to pay shit tonnes of excise. Next time you look at a boutiqe bottle of spirits and scoff at the price know that something like $30-40 is tax. I know a bloke who makes gin and that is what he tells me.


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## wereprawn (4/4/17)

I really doubt the huge alcohol tax slows down hardcore pissheads anyway . Just less food on the table ect, for their children .


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## mtb (4/4/17)

wereprawn said:


> I really doubt the huge alcohol tax slows down hardcore pissheads anyway . Just less food on the table ect, for their children .


Completely OT wereprawn, but I have to ask, is your profile photo a t-rex being shagged by a naked dude?

Back on-topic, I think the issue being described is more to do with the tax's effect on craft breweries than consumers. Most pissheads I know prefer megaswill because they value quantity over quality.


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## wereprawn (4/4/17)

mtb said:


> Completely OT wereprawn, but I have to ask, is your profile photo a t-rex being shagged by a naked dude?
> 
> Back on-topic, I think the issue being described is more to do with the tax's effect on craft breweries than consumers. Most pissheads I know prefer megaswill because they value quantity over quality.


 Yes it is. :blush:


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## mosto (4/4/17)

Feldon said:


> Forget climate change, gay marriage and Putin-bashing; this should be the political battleground of the next Fed Election.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree that a more equitable tax policy needs to established. On a side note though, whoever is pouring the beer in the video in the link should shot, or at least never allowed near a beer tap again!


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## BKBrews (4/4/17)

mash head said:


> Doesnt seem to mention that small breweries get a fair chunk of their excise back, apparently under the wet tax if you make less than a set amount you dont even need to pay. I feel sorry for the boutiqe distillers who have to pay shit tonnes of excise. Next time you look at a boutiqe bottle of spirits and scoff at the price know that something like $30-40 is tax. I know a bloke who makes gin and that is what he tells me.


The problem is the excise is payable upon packaging the product, prior to even a single bottle being sold - so it's super hard for startups to get off the ground with these huge up-front outlays.


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## WarmerBeer (4/4/17)

mtb said:


> Completely OT wereprawn, but I have to ask, is your profile photo a t-rex being shagged by a naked dude?


That MTB, always asking the important questions.


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## stm (4/4/17)

Feldon said:


> Forget climate change, gay marriage and Putin-bashing; this should be the political battleground of the next Fed Election.


Exactly! Something important that helps businesses grow, create employment and create wealth.


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## JDW81 (4/4/17)

TheWiggman said:


> I get that alcohol is taxed because by and large alcohol is a huge issue in society. Drink driving, alcoholism, domestic and public violence, a drain on the health system etc. so making it less affordable theoretically reduces the impact that this will have.


I work in a public hospital emergency department. Was there in the wee small hours of Saturday/Sunday/Monday morning.

Treated a stack of people who were well lubricated with various ailments. None of them had been drinking "craft" beer. Quote from one young fella. "what have you been drinking mate"? "Cartlon fuckin draft doc, best beer in the fuckin world". In fact I've never seen a drunk person who has ended up in ED cause they drank a stack of "insert favourite craft beer here".

I don't think altering the way small producers are taxed will change the social problems caused by alcohol. 

I would like to see the little guys get a fair go though. 

JD


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## WarmerBeer (4/4/17)

It would be a totally different emergency situation if you had young guys coming in yelling "West-fuckin-vleteren 12, doc. Best beer on fuckin beeradvocate, doc"


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## JDW81 (4/4/17)

WarmerBeer said:


> It would be a totally different emergency situation if you had young guys coming in yelling "West-fuckin-vleteren 12, doc. Best beer on fuckin beeradvocate, doc"


True, but I don't expect I'll be seeing that any time soon though.


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## mtb (4/4/17)

All that hop oil would put them to sleep long before the real shenanigans began anyway..


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## yankinoz (5/4/17)

wereprawn said:


> I really doubt the huge alcohol tax slows down hardcore pissheads anyway . Just less food on the table ect, for their children .


The same logic applies even more so for the tarheads. I've never smoked and have compelling personal reasons to despise the habit and tobacco. But I'd protest any further increases in tobacco taxes. It is on the table from time to time.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (11/4/17)

Stouter said:


> With the reportedly rising influence of minority parties maybe there's an opening for something like the Fishers Shooters Farmers Party.
> We could call it the Crafties Brewers and Pissheads Party.


Have you approached SFFP about joining them, they may be supportive of adding a "B" for brewing to their name but probably not the "P"


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## Yob (11/4/17)

BKBrews said:


> The problem is the excise is payable upon packaging the product, prior to even a single bottle being sold - so it's super hard for startups to get off the ground with these huge up-front outlays.


not exactly true.. you can, with a LOT of wrangling go to a monthly based excise system where its taxed on sales


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## malt junkie (11/4/17)

The problem being if I were say to start a "Brewers Party" and put up banners etc, all you bastards would turn up with kegs, bottles of RIS and a gerry rigged 1000L system to brew on. 


I know first world problems :huh:


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## BKBrews (11/4/17)

Yob said:


> not exactly true.. you can, with a LOT of wrangling go to a monthly based excise system where its taxed on sales


I actually read up on that yesterday - very interesting.


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## malt junkie (11/4/17)

I would note this is the only industry I can think of that hasn't reduce packaging size (the 50L keg) for manual handling reasons. We've all done it and seen it. Hell I was working a large Leagues Club in 2005 and the boys(including my self) would shoulder a keg to take it to particular locations. Most pubs and clubs still to this day handle these things by hand and usually one person. This is partly why my back is screwed. So just on safe work practices the excise should be inverted. Then again all the FED cares about is keeping the big players happy and ensuring they're raising revenue.

Any change to packaging sizes would have to be implemented over years(many) purely due to proliferation of what is currently a standard throughout the world. A 20L keg would fit the bill nicely, weighing in at or under the 25kg, and I note would also serve the home brewer. Lets face it the corny keg is currently only being made for the home brew space and new costs a small fortune. If we were using the same standard keg as every other brewery including the big boys; our kegs and associated fitting would be more widely available and their for cost less.

Quite interesting that an industry flaunts one law to remain in line with another. But this is the point, until such time as the excise laws are changed, the industry will remain stuck in the past.


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## wynnum1 (12/4/17)

20L kegs would only be OK for small clubs if high turnover would be become a pain and if your carrying full 50 L kegs may need to look at getting equipment to move safely.

I'm _not very_ smart, _but_ I _can lift heavy things_


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## klangers (12/4/17)

Cornelius kegs are actually made for the post-mix soft drink market. Ie the machines in maccas. The corny kegs hold the syrup and this is blended with carbed water.

Corny kegs have lots of room for improvement if one was to optimise them for beer and pub use. The massive opening on top - while convenient for home brewers to see inside, it is a leak risk that reduces the lifespan as they're hurled around off delivery trucks etc. The flow cross section from dip tube to post is far too small for pub use.

I would see the existing 30 L kegs (https://goo.gl/images/RfRNL3), which are just shorter versions of the 50L, as being ideal to switch too as no one needs to change their disconnects or filling heads.

Indeed; 50L/55kg is small enough to be tempted to move manually, but too large to do so safely (for the vast majority of folk).

Moving back to bulk tanks (>200L) or moving to smaller kegs would remove this issue.


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## n87 (12/4/17)

Post mix has come in bladders in cardboard boxes for quite a long time now. working at Maccas 15 years ago, they were more than well established.
Not sure how the rest of the world is, but the cardboard box takes up less room for the same qty, are able to be stacked and dispensed in any orientation and you dont need to store empties. it would suprise me if anywhere in Aus still used cornies for post mix


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## mash head (12/4/17)

Yob said:


> not exactly true.. you can, with a LOT of wrangling go to a monthly based excise system where its taxed on sales


Not that much wrangling, but you do need to have all your stock insured because if the beer goes missing or up in smoke the govt still want their excise.


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## malt junkie (12/4/17)

wynnum1 said:


> 20L kegs would only be OK for small clubs if high turnover would be become a pain and if your carrying full 50 L kegs may need to look at getting equipment to move safely.
> 
> I'm _not very_ smart, _but_ I _can lift heavy things_


If your job is cellarman, and your working in a cellar built well before I was born, there's no room to move let alone bring some equipment. grow up, your mouth would have you picking your teeth up from the side walk in some bars . As for a pain, name one other item sold whole sale to the retailer that weighs more than 25kg unless it's on a pallet


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## DU99 (12/4/17)

some of the older pubs had below ground cellars which had exits to the street ..they had a slide type system to lower the barrels down..no fancy gadgets in those days..even the tapping system on large kegs have changed over the years,and some states had kegs that you would lay on there side and tap in the centre :icon_offtopic:


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## wynnum1 (13/4/17)

malt junkie said:


> If your job is cellarman, and your working in a cellar built well before I was born, there's no room to move let alone bring some equipment. grow up, your mouth would have you picking your teeth up from the side walk in some bars . As for a pain, name one other item sold whole sale to the retailer that weighs more than 25kg unless it's on a pallet


 Hand Push Beam Trolley


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## malt junkie (13/4/17)

wynnum1 said:


> Hand Push Beam Trolley


The way kegs are moved in industry is actually to tilt onto one edge holding the cap on the coupler head in a balanced position and then to roll. Was well aware of your trolley idea, they're great when and where there's room to use them. And your high and mighty "you should follow WHS you **** wit" attitude just goes to show your young age because these laws and rules are comparatively new and in my day it was "harden the **** up and get the job done or look for another job".



DU99 said:


> some of the older pubs had below ground cellars which had exits to the street ..they had a slide type system to lower the barrels down..no fancy gadgets in those days..even the tapping system on large kegs have changed over the years,and some states had kegs that you would lay on there side and tap in the centre :icon_offtopic:


A lot still have these hole in the street delivery systems with 4 old car tyres at the bottom. Occasionally it'd get a bit exciting down stairs if a keg hit the edge of a tyre. :blink:


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## klangers (13/4/17)

malt junkie said:


> And your high and mighty "you should follow WHS you **** wit" attitude just goes to show your young age because these laws and rules are comparatively new and in my day it was "harden the **** up and get the job done or look for another job".


To be fair on wynnum, he didn't know you were a cellarman. I don't feel he's being high and mighty - it came across to me as trying to be helpful.

But yes, looking at some of the older pubs' cellars makes it clear as to how painful it would be to move kegs about! As you say the older pubs in Sydney still have the old tyre system still in action. Ironically it'll probably be an injury to a pedestrian from a wayward full keg that'll cause the system to be reviewed, not the cellarmen's crook backs :huh:


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## wynnum1 (13/4/17)

Beam Trolley is put on the ceiling like you see in the meat industry trouble with a lot of these jobs is the ones in charge are **** wits and would rather pay someone to do it manually then get proper equipment .


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## malt junkie (13/4/17)

wynnum1 said:


> Beam Trolley is put on the ceiling like you see in the meat industry trouble with a lot of these jobs is the ones in charge are **** wits and would rather pay someone to do it manually then get proper equipment .


When you consider the likes of Panthers, other such 'super clubs' as well as larger venues Sport stadiums etc, the income they generate and other infrastructure they're quite prepared to shell out for your right. Comes down to the mighty dollar. Hence as I said 20L kegs for general distribution and say 500l kegs to these larger venues; thus forcing them to have systems in place to deal with them.

My point was that the excise laws currently enable the issue of manual handling within the industry and has largely been ignored compared with any other industry,


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## wynnum1 (13/4/17)

You know what the government will do if they change the system do away with the over 50 l and charge at the higher price for all beer.


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## Feldon (13/7/17)

*Craft brewers say ACCC's lack of action over tap contracts a 'body blow' to industry*
Patrick Keneally, _The Guardian_, Thursday 13 July 2017 18.57 AEST 

_Craft brewers allege Carlton United Breweries and Lion are locking them out of beer taps in pubs, clubs and live venues_

A decision by the competition watchdog to take no action against major breweries over tap contracts in pubs and clubs has been criticised by the craft brewing industry.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission conducted a three-year investigation into allegations from craft brewers that the major brewers, Carlton United Breweries and Lion, were locking them out of beer taps in pubs, clubs and live venues through the use of exclusivity provisions and volume requirements in tap contracts.

Tap contracts at 36 venues across New South Wales and Victoria were investigated but the ACCC found that, while volume rules and exclusivity arrangements were in place, they were unlikely to substantially lessen competition.

The Independent Brewers Association (IBA) described the decision as a “body blow” for craft brewers.

Ben Kooyman, the chairman of the IBA, said the competition watchdog’s claim that tap contracts did not substantially lessen competition was at odds with an Essential Economics study that found market access was the second greatest constraint to growth behind excise.

“This investigation has been dragging on for more than three years and to now find out that the status quo will be maintained is a bit hard to take,” he said. “The big winners from this decision are a select group of multinational companies.

“For any small business to survive it needs protection from the market practices of dominant players. We had hoped that Australian consumer law, as interpreted by the ACCC, would be able to provide that protection.”


More at: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...on-over-tap-contracts-a-body-blow-to-industry


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## homebrewnewb (14/7/17)

So, historically these laws set up as I understand to protect local brews (now megaswill internationally owned craft-washed concerns) to compete with the big American and Euro brands in the 70/80s, are now used to do exactly the same thing they were intended to prevent.
I trust the irony's not lost on anyone.

Bureaucracy aside, is the federal government able to get anything right?
I was chatting to Mazen (Hawkers) GABS before, he was lamenting the sluggishness of the Fed to grant him residency or PR, or at least sort it out so he wasn't deported. Never mind the fact he's employing 20+ Victorians in Reservoir and elsewhere at the time.

I hate to conflate the two, but not only can i not get a crafty at my local, i can't nbn either due to the hfc/malcolm-turnbull-mess either.
It's just a real shame, at least i can homebrew and string tin cans together, i suppose, but good lord wouldn't it be nice if a bit of common sense and practicality prevailed over big business interests for crafty's to get a fair go at the tap. So much for equality before the law.


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## koshari (14/7/17)

wereprawn said:


> I really doubt the huge alcohol tax slows down hardcore pissheads anyway . Just less food on the table ect, for their children .


indeed, for example cheap cask wine is taxed in a different matter as well, this is why cheap cask wine is popular among problem drinkers.


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## koshari (14/7/17)

Stouter said:


> The craft brewing doco on Netflux, Craft Nation might be, that showed how the seppos changed things for the better in their local community and economies with craft brewing and tap rooms. Certainly a flow on effect and better employment opportunities than the large breweries. There was parts also regarding the taxes and restrictions where one state didn't allow tap room sales, etc. Interesting watch.


i must say the last time i went over tt the US i was genuinely impressed by some of the bars and choice of beers on tap available.


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## Dave70 (14/7/17)

I


koshari said:


> i must say the last time i went over tt the US i was genuinely impressed by some of the bars and choice of beers on tap available.



I was genuinely impressed that most garden variety bottle shops had a better selection of beer than Dan Murphys. Or that you could get a sixer of Dogfish Head, Sierra Nevada or Ballast Point for as little as $10, virtually anywhere. Or, for that matter, that I could get a pint of fresh Urquell in Prague for about 50 Koruna - $2.50 AUD give or take. Or around $2 for 750ml Heineken from a 7/11 in Thailand.
We get royally fucked in this country for our simple pleasures by a greedy government, plain and simple.


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## Stouter (14/7/17)

Taxing at every step of their elaborate red tape processes ensures this.


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## Dave70 (14/7/17)

Stouter said:


> Taxing at every step of their elaborate red tape processes ensures this.



The biggest crime, in my opinion anyway, is that it discourages free enterprise, and by extension, creativity. Could be beer, could be anything (but most importantly beer..). 
I would love to see a micro in every small town in Australia, all vying to take home a gong at some interstate or regional festival. Be like the State of Origin, only meritorious. 
But how many talented brewers have looked at the rigmarole of kicking off a micro involved and said '**** this', and gone back to brewing in the garage. Basically, we all miss out. 
We should be selling beers on the side of the road like preserves, or shitty handicrafts. Christ, its not like you dont pay tax on the ingredients. 
At least set the bar at the tax free threshold before bureaucracy sticks its bib in. You can earn 18K tax free anyway, so whats that $346 per week selling beer out of your shed? 
$346 you'll re invest in the economy, most likely, other small business. 
A pox on government and its anti capitalistic interventions. Go cut ribbons on nature reserves you pricks and get the **** out of the way of enterprising Australians. 
_Grrr_. Dads angry..


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## damoninja (14/7/17)

Dave70 said:


> I
> 
> 
> I was genuinely impressed that most garden variety bottle shops had a better selection of beer than Dan Murphys. Or that you could get a sixer of Dogfish Head, Sierra Nevada or Ballast Point for as little as $10, virtually anywhere. Or, for that matter, that I could get a pint of fresh Urquell in Prague for about 50 Koruna - $2.50 AUD give or take. Or around $2 for 750ml Heineken from a 7/11 in Thailand.
> We get royally fucked in this country for our simple pleasures by a greedy government, plain and simple.



Fark I can't wait 'til I'm there this year...


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## homebrewnewb (14/7/17)

Dave70 said:


> The biggest crime, in my opinion anyway, is that it discourages free enterprise, and by extension, creativity. Could be beer, could be anything (but most importantly beer..).
> I would love to see a micro in every small town in Australia, all vying to take home a gong at some interstate or regional festival. Be like the State of Origin, only meritorious.
> But how many talented brewers have looked at the rigmarole of kicking off a micro involved and said '**** this', and gone back to brewing in the garage. Basically, we all miss out.
> We should be selling beers on the side of the road like preserves, or shitty handicrafts. Christ, its not like you dont pay tax on the ingredients.
> ...



Holy shit love this one. And here i was thinking we were all equal before the law... I suppose if you have the money, you can get away with anything are free to do what you want.
I am trying to not sound sound like a commy but god damn you nanny state, and few drug/booze addled bad apples ruining it for everyone.


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## Dave70 (14/7/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> Holy shit love this one. And here i was thinking we were all equal before the law...* I suppose if you have the money, you can get away with anything are free to do what you want.*
> I am trying to not sound sound like a commy but god damn you nanny state, and few drug/booze addled bad apples ruining it for everyone.



If you can afford a mouthpiece like Chris Murphy, apparently so.

*On another occasion, Murphy successfully helped Singleton avoid a fine and possible criminal conviction for driving his Bentley at 160km/h. Murphy argued that the modern design of Singleton's $600,000 car meant it could safely travel at 50km/h over the speed limit.*


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...w/news-story/a35f2b17548d4f0c405db22376fb43e7


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## yankinoz (1/9/17)

ScottyDoesntKnow said:


> I think America has done something similar, or they are trying to anyway.
> 
> It's mostly been a state issue, with many outcomes. The federal tax on beer is low enough it's not a large issue.
> 
> Whatever those chardonnay-quaffing dual citizen pollies in Canberra do, it's high time.


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