# Saflager W34-70 Bananarama



## thumbsucker (21/1/18)

I brewed my first lager with Saflager W34-70 using 4 packets rehydrated for 40 lites I started the ferment at 12ºc and then dropped it down to 8ºc once it started to bubble away (My reasoning was cooler temps slower ferment and less fruity flavours). Then I lagered for two months.

The malt bill was 90% pilsner and 10% Vienna, I have now ended up with a Bananarama.

It is so banana forward it has almost that synthetic banana flavour, this thing puts any hefeweizen to shame.

I wanted clean, malty and crisp. What The F-ing when wrong? I am told that the beer has no faults but something has not gone to expectation.

Thinking of dumping the lot if I cannot give it away.


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## MHB (21/1/18)

Isoamyl acetate is almost exclusively a yeast product. Generally down to high fermentation temperatures.
34/70 isn't noted for it banana output - tho all yeast does produce some - unless its 1/ very low population (stress) 2/ hot (stress) 3/nutrient deprived (stress).
Clearly the yeast is under stress, whether you killed most of it by bad rehydration procedures, are brewing a lot hotter than you believe, or for some reason the wort isn't supplying enough of some nutrient.

Revise your hydration process - make very sure you are following the manufacturers instructions especially water : yeast, temperature and attemperation (getting the yeast to pitching temp)
Is there a fan in the fridge? without one some spots in the ferment can be a lot hotter than you expect.
Nutrient, well not commonly a problem, but if it is ever going to be this is the type of beer where it will show. Adding a bit of nutrient wouldn't hurt, a good complex not just DAP.

Frustrating I know, but resist the temptation to blame the yeast (unless it's old or badly mishandled) if you use 34/70 properly it will make fantastic beer. you will need to analyse your process and see where its doing harm.
Mark


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## thumbsucker (21/1/18)

Not blaming the yeast, just interested in getting better.

It could be my fermentation - it's not perfect. I have no accurate temp control - I just have a digital thermometer and I adjust the temp using the fridge temp control. A fan sounds like a good idea, I should invest in a temp regulator. 

Will try again.


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## MHB (21/1/18)

An STC-1000 and a fan costs a lot less than a 40L pilsner brew.
Seriously good temp control is more important than going all grain. On temp, if you haven't got a good thermometer in one hand when you are rehydrating yeast you are probably doing more harm than good, be worth thinking about O2 long term.
Mark


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## Brewno Marz (21/1/18)

Ok. That's weird. I do a 40 litre 95% Wey pils + 5% Wey Vienna with 2 packets of 34/70 (or MJ 84) rehydrated and fermented at 14deg C. Has a bit of sulphur, but is otherwise very neutral. Sulphur goes pretty quick too. Also, why drop down to 8deg C? Fermentis states 12 to 15degC. Plus it's summer here and lower temps = $


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## MHB (21/1/18)

There is a pretty direct relationship between Esters and Temperature, the hotter the more. There is a reciprocal relationship between ferment speed and temperature, the colder the slower. so to get less ester you need to brew cooler and use more yeast.
Budvar (the Czech brewer) are quoted as saying they finish primary in 72 hours at 8oC, the price being the equivalent of 60 something smack packs in 20L (5L of fresh heavy slurry/hL (100L)), clean well attenuated nearly ester free.
Depending on the beer you are trying to make you need to control the major variables, wort quality, yeast health, pitch rate, temperature...
If your going to get a bug up your arse about spending a couple of dollars on electricity - don't brew lager.
Mark


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## Brewno Marz (21/1/18)

MHB said:


> There is a pretty direct relationship between Esters and Temperature, the hotter the more. There is a reciprocal relationship between ferment speed and temperature, the colder the slower. so to get less ester you need to brew cooler and use more yeast.
> Budvar (the Czech brewer) are quoted as saying they finish primary in 72 hours at 8oC, the price being the equivalent of 60 something smack packs in 20L (5L of fresh heavy slurry/hL (100L)), clean well attenuated nearly ester free.
> Depending on the beer you are trying to make you need to control the major variables, wort quality, yeast health, pitch rate, temperature...
> If your going to get a bug up your arse about spending a couple of dollars on electricity - don't brew lager.
> Mark


If that's a dig then find the naughty corner and stay there. It's not helping thumbfsucker. Why drop ferment temp to 8degC when 12C to 15C is what the manufacturer recommends? It's an unneccessary waste.


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## MHB (22/1/18)

You clearly don't understand lager brewing!
Already said why one would want to brew cooler, you quoted the explanation. Ferment temp is a component of the beer you are brewing.
Mark
SaflagerW-34-70.pdf


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## Dan Pratt (22/1/18)

Wheres is my popcorn. [emoji41]


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