# Vienna Vs Golden Promise Or Maris Otter



## yankinoz (2/1/13)

I do BIAB partial-mash, partial boil brewing, because of equipment limitations and because I'm happy with the results thus far. Depending on the original gravity I'm seeking, grains contribute between half and two-thirds of fermentables, DME the rest.

When I've wanted a malty ale, my base malt has been Joe White Vienna, but I'm thinking of trying out a highly-flavoured pale ale malt such as Golden Promise or Maris Otter. Those famed malts deliver when they provide 80 to 90 percent of fermentables, but would they do as well as Vienna if they shared the stage with DME? 

Does anyone have experience substituting Vienna and GP or MO in similar recipes? Any thoughts on their respective flavour contributions?


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## Ironhorse (2/1/13)

What about a dash of melanoidin malt - it provides a strong malt flavour.


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## Tony (2/1/13)

Golden promise is a very clean malt....... almost has a honey character to it.

MO is more of a biskety, bready kind of character

I think before anyone can help you out with recommendations, we need to know what style of beer you are brewing.

Malty ales could be a lot of things.

I personally, think there are better ways of getting maltiness into a beer than using a darker base malt like Vienna or Munich. And i really don't like Melanoiden. Its like cola made from syrip to me....... tastes fake

cheers


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## QldKev (2/1/13)

If you just want to throw a good malty hit at it go the melanoidin 

If you want the other flavours with it, and especially if you are brewing an English ale, go the GP or MO. 

Even if you are looking at APA styles look at Perle and Munich

edit: Beaten by Tony

QldKev


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## yankinoz (2/1/13)

Tony,

My next brew will be an English pale, where I'll use GO, MO or Vienna, and any specialty malts will go in sparingy; I'll probably use crsytal at 5% and Victory at 3% of fermentables, and hop with EKG. I might later try the pale ale malts in blonde ales where I've previously used JW Vienna. The thread on dark milds has me interested too; I drank many in the UK but have never brewed one. A recent recipe for my evolving blonde is below.

In any recipe, given that I'm doing partial mash, the base malt will provide 40 to 75 percent of fermentables, depending on the volume of wort ready for pitching, the original gravity of the brew, and the amount of specialty malts. My mash-capacity limit is about 3 kg.

Re melanoidin, I tried it twice in 23 L batches of American ambers, along with dark crystal, and JW Vienna was the base malt. The first time, at 300g, I found the malt flavor cloying even though the beer had a low fg. The second time I used 150g and liked what it added. One malthead I know, a Brit, liked both. In future ambers I'll probably stick with Vienna as the base malt. 

Galactic blonde:

23 L final volume, boil time 80 minutes
Grain and Extract Bill:
1.6 kg JW Vienna
800 g JW wheat
1.2 kg Briess Golden Light DME, added at -60
Began mash at 68 C.
Hops:
12 g Magnum at -60 minutes
28 g Galaxy at -20
12 g Galaxy, boiling water poured over, steeped 5 minutes and added at knock out, immediately before cooling.
Yeast Danstar Nottingham, fermented at temperature steady between 14 and 15 C.
Primary fermentation 22 days, then primed with cane sugar and bottle conditioned (no secondary).

Notes:
1. o.g 1.045, f.g. 1.015
2. Fermentation began after short lag, was vigorous and largely complete within 72 hours
3. Colour a dirty blonde due to kettle caramelisation in a partial boil
4. Noticeable but round and pleasant malt flavour and aroma, little toast and no noticeable caramel
5. Expected slight sweetness came out too sweet, except two bottles ended up dry and gassy (but tasty), presumably because of secondary fermentation of lingering fermentables. 
6. IBUs tasted well under 25, short of a higher target 25 that had been based on Brewheads Rager calculation.
7. Superb hop flavour and aroma, less aggressive than Amarillo or Cascade used in similar recipes, notes of peach, distinct from Galaxy in other of my home brew styles and in Stone & Woods Pacific Ale, all of which used it in higher concentrations. 

Possible changes:
Mash at lower temperature to reduce complex sugars
Add DME later, maybe at -15, to reduce kettle caramelisation.


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## Barry (3/1/13)

I use MO for most ales. Castle pale ale malt is good for APA's and similar beers. I use Vienna in darker lagers but I use Weyermann or Castle, not JW.


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