# Pot only gets up to 95C with the lid off



## YeastInspection (7/9/16)

Howdy drunks,

I'm doing my first BIAB, and I just did a test run on the stovetop without any grain. With the lid off, it's only bringing the 25L of water to 95C before it won't get any hotter.

I see my options as:

1. Put the lid on during the boil, hope and pray (but what about the boilover?)
2. Buy an outdoor gas cooker (I live in an apartment without a proper balcony)
3. Insulate the pot somehow (it's definitely losing heat to the world around it)
4. Is 95C enough to get the acids out anyway? I only want a mild-medium bitterness

Advice please


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## SBOB (7/9/16)

YeastInspection said:


> Howdy drunks,
> 
> I'm doing my first BIAB, and I just did a test run on the stovetop without any grain. With the lid off, it's only bringing the 25L of water to 95C before it won't get any hotter.
> 
> ...



Could you modify your mash so that you have less initial wort volume (at a higher SG), and therefore more likely to be able to boil. You can then top-up during or post boil to the required SG/volume
e.g. modify you're recipe so that its a higher gravity with lower volume (~20L) and boil that..then water down with an extra 5L either during the boil to maintain the required volume to post boil


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## mtb (7/9/16)

Put the lid on halfway.


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## mofox1 (7/9/16)

Do you have room to use multiple pots to boil in at the same time?


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## mtb (7/9/16)

You don't want to put the lid on fully - Dimethyl Sulfides need a way to escape!


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## timmi9191 (7/9/16)

YeastInspection said:


> Howdy drunks,
> 
> I'm doing my first BIAB, and I just did a test run on the stovetop without any grain. With the lid off, it's only bringing the 25L of water to 95C before it won't get any hotter.
> 
> ...


95 is ok for hops but must boil for DMS etc

have you considered an over the side element to help get up to boil


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## Lecterfan (7/9/16)

Float a foil BBQ tray on top - lots of old threads with better brewers than you and me talking about/employing this method. Less surface area, but the wort still boils and drives off what it needs to. Best not to use outdoor burners inside unless you have a dedicated area with suitable ventilation (i.e. an outside area).


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## bevan (7/9/16)

I put a stainless bowl in to help increase the boil. It gets a nice rolling boil where as it use to just get a slow boil


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## YeastInspection (7/9/16)

mtb said:


> Put the lid on halfway.


Hahah is life ever so simple? I'm going to go and test this now


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## feralbass (7/9/16)

I had the same problem last weekend with the new pot I am building, ended up using the oxy torch to get it there.


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## mtb (7/9/16)

YeastInspection said:


> Hahah is life ever so simple? I'm going to go and test this now


Works for me haha


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## YeastInspection (7/9/16)

mtb said:


> Works for me haha


Looks like it works for me as well. It isn't a rolling boil, but it's a gentle one. Thermometer reads 99c, and enough steam is coming off it that I'm going to call it a boil

I guess I'll know if I taste corn as to success or failure


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## DU99 (7/9/16)

think of investing in a grainfather


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## manticle (7/9/16)

Lecterfan said:


> Float a foil BBQ tray on top - lots of old threads with better brewers than you and me talking about/employing this method. Less surface area, but the wort still boils and drives off what it needs to. Best not to use outdoor burners inside unless you have a dedicated area with suitable ventilation (i.e. an outside area).


This one. Cheapest, easiest, most effective.

Nick JD disagreed.


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## mtb (7/9/16)

Cheaper than putting the lid on halfway?
Nobody beats me when it comes to el cheapo solutions


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## manticle (7/9/16)

More effective in terms of vapourisation and volatalisation.
**** that lid off out of here (well preboil is fine, post boil is fine, while boiling is not).


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## TheWiggman (7/9/16)

What's the drama here? Is it boiling? If it is then job done. Water doesn't boil at exactly 100°C all the time. The lower the air pressure (primarily altitude) the lower the boiling temp.


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## SBOB (7/9/16)

timmi9191 said:


> 95 is ok for hops but must boil for DMS etc


you don't technically, but it takes a lot longer at non-boiling and you dont get the constant movement to bring those volatiles to the surface to have them removed


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## mtb (7/9/16)

manticle said:


> More effective in terms of vapourisation and volatalisation.
> **** that lid off out of here (well preboil is fine, post boil is fine, while boiling is not).


I'm in need of a schooling, why is lid halfway not a good option? Is it that vapour condenses underneath the lid and drips back into the boil, reducing boil off rate? Always wondered if that was screwing with my brew process


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## DU99 (7/9/16)

could get one of these items


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## manticle (7/9/16)

mtb said:


> I'm in need of a schooling, why is lid halfway not a good option? Is it that vapour condenses underneath the lid and drips back into the boil, reducing boil off rate? Always wondered if that was screwing with my brew process


Pretty much.

If it works for you - no corn/tomato sauce, expected evaporation, expected OG, expected colour and flavour then your method is as good as you need.


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## mtb (7/9/16)

I guess it depends on the shape of the lid. My SS pot has a flat stainless steel lid, and I notice that vapour escapes fairly easily, whereas stockpots (ie possibly the one OP is using) have a lid with a small lip that allows it to align properly with the pot.. horses for courses I guess, I always hit my targets (but maybe I'm accidentally disguising a process flaw elsewhere h34r: )


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## YeastInspection (8/9/16)

Okay, it's now the morning after, and I have problems number 2 and 3.

I was hoping to leave my pot after the boil to just sit and cool overnight (with the lid on), and then in the morning I could pour my wort into the fermenter and start brewing. 

Problem 2: The wort is still around 50 degrees after 12 hours

Problem 3: This pot is way too heavy for me to pour singlehandedly into my fermenter

Can I combine 2 and 3 into a siphon + chiller combo? Or should I siphon straight into cubes?


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## Lecterfan (8/9/16)

mtb - the dripping back in thing probably has little effect on boil off (unless doing very small volumes), but some reading (and I can't find the reference at the moment) suggests that DMS precursors (for example) that are driven off by the boil can be inadvertently returned to the wort. The foil tray reduces the surface area and allows for the wort to boil, for the steam and whatever else to escape without that same risk. As always, YMMV - if it works for you, no worries at all. :icon_chickcheers:


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## mtb (8/9/16)

Lecterfan said:


> mtb - the dripping back in thing probably has little effect on boil off (unless doing very small volumes), but some reading (and I can't find the reference at the moment) suggests that DMS precursors (for example) that are driven off by the boil can be inadvertently returned to the wort. The foil tray reduces the surface area and allows for the wort to boil, for the steam and whatever else to escape without that same risk. As always, YMMV - if it works for you, no worries at all. :icon_chickcheers:


Makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I'll quit being a cheap prick and pump up the gas to get the rolling boil next time :beerbang:


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (8/9/16)

Lecterfan said:


> mtb - the dripping back in thing probably has little effect on boil off (unless doing very small volumes), but some reading (and I can't find the reference at the moment) suggests that DMS precursors (for example) that are driven off by the boil can be inadvertently returned to the wort. The foil tray reduces the surface area and allows for the wort to boil, for the steam and


Yes, one brewery in which I worked had an old copper brewhouse imported from Germany with a DMS ring in the stack. If you ran cold water through the ring it condensed some of the volatiles and they dripped back into the wort. We didn't use it.


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## Gigantorus (13/9/16)

As other folks have suggested, leave the lid slightly off and leave a small gap. Just keep an eye on it for that first 30 mins - I've had a couple of boil-overs and it ain't nice. 

I had this same issue, as I use the old kitchen stove, which has limited heating capability. You really need to get up to 100C for everything to do it's thing.

Cheers,
Pete


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## malt junkie (13/9/16)

YeastInspection said:


> Okay, it's now the morning after, and I have problems number 2 and 3.
> 
> I was hoping to leave my pot after the boil to just sit and cool overnight (with the lid on), and then in the morning I could pour my wort into the fermenter and start brewing.
> 
> ...


I used to sit mine in the bath or laundry sink after the boil change the water twice. Then pour into the fermenter. There is a reason it's called the slippery slope! I too got to the point where stove top boil wasn't getting the job done. So I built a keggle with an over the side element, this was too heavy to put in the bath and wouldn't even fit in the laundry sink, so an immersion chiller was acquired. This was in the early days; if from the start I'd just gone out and dropped the coin I'd have a 100L Blingman setup and probably be ahead by now. :wacko:


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## Droopy Brew (13/9/16)

Id imagine that you could use the lid to get to the boil and then take it off once there.

The amount of energy to get from 99C and not boiling (assuming pure water at sea level, boiling point becomes lower at higher altitudes) to 100C and boiling is large- much larger than just raising a degree or 2 because the wort is changing phase. Try getting to a full boil with the lid on then remove once boiling and see if the stove can keep it rolling.

As for your other 2 problems I suggest putting a tap into your pot and draining the wort into cubes aka no chill. This has to be done as soon as you can after wirlpooling etc so the heat of the wort sterilises everything in the cube. If the temp gets below say 80C (maybe higher than this) then you run the risk of infection.

If you are happy to spend $100 then get a chiller (immersion or plate) and drain straight to the fermenter.


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## Kev888 (14/9/16)

The lid part-way on works well for me and is fine IMO - provided theres enough of a gap to let any vapour/steam freely escape, anyway. DMS is much more volatile than water and so won't condense easily on the steam-heated lid as the water vapour does.


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## Andy_27 (14/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> What's the drama here? Is it boiling? If it is then job done. Water doesn't boil at exactly 100°C all the time. The lower the air pressure (primarily altitude) the lower the boiling temp.


I just got a 20L pot from Big W plus a digital thermometer. I just did a test boil to see how long it took etc and to test the thermometer. The water was at a good boil but the thermometer registered 97.1 degrees. I was thinking ah well 3 degrees I can work with, until I read this and looked at a table. Water boils around 97 at 800m altitude where I am!


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## Gigantorus (16/9/16)

YeastInspection said:


> Okay, it's now the morning after, and I have problems number 2 and 3.
> 
> I was hoping to leave my pot after the boil to just sit and cool overnight (with the lid on), and then in the morning I could pour my wort into the fermenter and start brewing.
> 
> ...


In terms of cooling the wort. I have 4 x 2litre ice cream containers that I fill with water and put in the freezer 3 or 4days before I brew. I sit the pot of hot wort into the laundry tub (with lid on) and put the 4 big blocks of ice around the outside and fill with tap water. This takes the temp from 100C down to 20C in 20 to 30 mins. So don't find getting down to pitching temp that difficult.

I once used a bag of party ice - but that melted way too quick and didn't bring the temp down that quick.

Cheers,

Pete


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