# Australian Brewery Location Map



## Steve Lacey (29/3/07)

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For your information and edification, the Beer Mapping Project has added an Australian Brewery Map to its list of regional maps. 

The data, I assume, is only as good as the data in the beerme.com database at the time of the transfer (no entries for Canberra, I notice, nor the Gold Coast, is that correct?). It probably uses Google map's address lookup, so the precise position of the location push-pins might also be prone to error. It is possible to add new entries via a form on the beermapping site and to contact them with info on errors in the data. I'm sure the site owner would appreciate a small army of enthusiastic volunteers to check that the location pins are in the right place. Not to mention the need to populate the entries with reviews and submit new entries of any omissions.

When you browse a google map, if you double click on a location, for example the correct location of a brewery, you will notice that the address in the URL bar contains a string of numbers like
lat=-32.894777101259415&lng=151.6025948524475

To correct an entry's location, get these numbers and send them off to the beermapping guy via the "Report a Problem" link on the balloon for the brewery (strip out the "lat=" and "&lng=" and just separate the two numbers with a comma). 

To inform him of the location of a new entry, get the lat and long in the same way.


So go to it!

Steve


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## Steve Lacey (30/3/07)

No interest in this resource? The conversation going on here would suggest that there is a lot of demand for this kind of information, especially if the accuracy is reliable.

As I suspected, the pushpins are located using an address lookup, which is not all that accurate. At best it gets the right street. Yesterday I noticed that the Lord Nelson was positioned about halfway down Kent Street, so I got the right co-ordinates and reported the problem. Tonight it is already fixed, so the owner is responsive.

Steve


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## Stuster (31/3/07)

I think it's good info, Steve. Certainly very good for the next holiday (brew tour) planning.


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## Brewtus (31/3/07)

I just submitted Zierholz in Canberra. I wonder how long until it appears on the map?


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## faryg (31/3/07)

I just submitted Gage Roads in Perth. I wonder how long until it appears on the map?


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## Brewtus (31/3/07)

Both are there now!


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## Malnourished (31/3/07)

Interesting project, but who's verifying the entries? Is it designed for breweries only or 'brewing companies' as well?

As it is, there are multiple entries, 'brewing companies,' BOPs, and places I'm pretty sure aren't breweries (has anyone heard of the Station Tavern & Brewery in Greville St, Prahran (the Station Hotel in Prahran??) or Legless Brewing in Cotham Rd, Kew?)

Sorry for the skepticism, I'd like to see something like this take off, but it's not much good if it isn't edited. And to be honest, even if it was edited regularly and well, it'd still just be doubling up on the Australian Good Beer Directory... with maps obviously.


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## joecast (31/3/07)

the map has only become available in the last two weeks(?), and the main source for locations was beerme.com as was stated. if you check out whats been done with us cities, you'll see the possibilities. for now, he is sticking with breweries and brewpubs for countries outside the us.
jonathan, the guy running the site, is great about adding/correcting entries. and if you have any questions about the maps, the forums are probably the easiest and quickest place to get answers. 
joe

no affiliation, blah blah blah. though the forums are good, and members are easy going.


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## Steve Lacey (2/4/07)

Malnourished said:


> Interesting project, but who's verifying the entries?



You, me, him, her.



> As it is, there are multiple entries, 'brewing companies,' BOPs, and places I'm pretty sure aren't breweries (has anyone heard of the Station Tavern & Brewery in Greville St, Prahran (the Station Hotel in Prahran??) or Legless Brewing in Cotham Rd, Kew?)



With the ones you are sure about, use the link to contact the site and notify them.



> Sorry for the skepticism, I'd like to see something like this take off, but it's not much good if it isn't edited. And to be honest, even if it was edited regularly and well, it'd still just be doubling up on the Australian Good Beer Directory... with maps obviously.



Yes, you are right. It is not good if it is not edited. That's exactly the reason why I tried to push it a bit; because the editors are, at risk of labouring the point, all of us.

I don't agree that it is "just" doubling up on the Australian Good Beer Directory. For one, it has a slightly different focus, i.e., sites where brewing is performed. To that end I think, given the site's US origins, it is focused on places where the traveling public can go to enjoy a craft beer, or take a tour of the brewery -- even mega breweries therefore qualify, which is probably not the case with the Good Beer Directory (by definition of "good beer  ). To therefore answer your other question, the "brewing company" category of the Good Beer Directory is probably not included because they are not sites where brewing takes place. The point is, it is a map, so the implication is that it is a resource designed for people who are interested in visiting places. The Good Beer Guide is more a repository of information about potential "good beers" that are out there in the market place, so it includes small contract brewing companies as well as breweries.

The other comparison with the Good Beer Directory that has to be made is that the beer mapping site is very Web 2.0, whereas the Good Beer Directory is static html. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the Good Beer Directory, and I like its tight focus and apparent accuracy and that it appears up-to-date. I think the two resources are therefore complementary, and rather than the Beermapping project threaten the Good Beer Directory, the two can work together. The Good Beer Directory could include a link to the breweries entry on the Beermapping site, for example. When I say it is Web 2.0, I mean you can interact with the web page a lot more. You can add reviews, easily post off a correction from the balloons for individual entries, talk about places in the forum, etc.

Operators of these kinds of API-based, user-driven Web 2.0 sites are not going to make any particular effort to go checking up on the veracity of the data; the best they can do is promise to be responsive to submitted corrections, and it would seem that in that regard the operator is fulfilling his commitment.

To me, the greatest challenge facing the Beermapping project is this: given that the original data accessed was somewhat dated, how do we know whether a record is reliable? Does the brewery actually still exist? Is it located in the right place? Are there breweries missing for an area I am interested in? I think this question of data reliability can only be overcome if the site is actively used in the way it is meant to be...i.e., not just as something you click on and look at, but also check, validate, and contribute to yourself. And lots of users need to be doing it. Or at least a few very knowledgeable and motivated ones. In particular, the entries need reviews. If an entry has a review or two, we know the reviewer has both visited the brewery (or has first hand knowledge of it) and has used the beermapping site. This suggests that if there was an error with the entry, the reviewer would have corrected it. Thus, entries with reviews will have the greatest reliability.


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## Malnourished (4/4/07)

Yeah, there's no doubting that something like this is a much more powerful tool than the Good Beer Directory, and obviously the GBD is pretty limited (very limited information on the beers etc.)

I'm sure you're aware that this Web 2.0 stuff has disadvantages as well as advantages. I know from experience on other sites that all kinds of rubbish will get into the system. If you have people regularly checking and editing the site it's obviously not a big problem, but like you say someone got to put up their hand to do it, and continue to do it. Ratebeer and Beer Advocate both have guides to breweries, pubs etc., have a central editor with ultimate responsibility, and a relatively large, active group of users but still neither are particularly accurate. 

Again, apologies for being so negative, I've just seen a lot of things like this show a lot of promise but really amount to very little. Remember brew.com.au? That started with a lot of fanfare, but nothing ever really became of it. And if there were just a couple of corrections to do with this site then I'd probably do it, but there are so many I really can't be bothered. Sorry.

Good luck to em though. :beerbang:


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## Steve Lacey (4/4/07)

Malnourished said:


> Again, apologies for being so negative, I've just seen a lot of things like this show a lot of promise but really amount to very little.



I do agree with that. I understand the nature of these things. Some take off like wildfire for no apparent reason, others just wither and die. I think you are right that the sites most likely to succeed are those backed by an active champion or two who take a bit of pride and ownership in the thing to make sure the data is good and perhaps to push it in front of people.

The thing with Web 2.0 that a lot of people don't understand is that it is a platform rather than a finished product. The nature of the product really depends on the extent and how the intended user base interacts with it. For example, I would see in this case that the perfect person to step in and really make the beermapping Australian guide a valuable resource would be whoever runs the Good Beer Directory. Obviously that person is motivated towards getting accurate information out there, but perhaps doesn't have the skill or resources or time to create a Google Maps API interface ... well, he/she doesn't need to now, but he/she can get stuck into the beermapping project platform and marry it with the Goodbeer directory. 

But if no such champion or enthusiastic user base develops, then you are right, mate, it will just become another dark and forgotten corner of the Internet. My interest was just to put in front of everybody here. If enough people are interested, great, if not, oh well, nothing lost, except perhaps an opportunity.

Steve


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