# Leffe Radieuse Recipe?



## Batz (4/5/10)

Does anyone have a _tried and tested _recipe for this? I have one for the Blonde but not the Radieuse.


Batz


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## Howlingdog (4/5/10)

Too easy Batz,with nearly 8700 posts surely you have some idea where to go. Post you're proposed recipe and and the forum will help you fine tune it.

HD


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## Bongchitis (6/5/10)

Very interested in this also. It is my fav Belgian but the blonde always gets the attention... typical.


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## Batz (6/5/10)

HowlingDog said:


> Too easy Batz,with nearly 8700 posts surely you have some idea where to go. Post you're proposed recipe and and the forum will help you fine tune it.
> 
> HD




I'm not a Belgian fan and have only brewed two Belgians in my life, both were good according to all who sampled them.
I asked for a tried and tested recipe, sure I can work one out myself but it would take a few brews to perfect it and I don't want a few brews of this <_< 

As far as posting a recipe and it being fine tuned here...I don't think so, I get very frustrated reading others help in fine tuning recipes, in fact it often makes me scream ! Having said that there are of course lots of experienced brewers that do offer excellent advise, but when I read stuff like add Cascade to an Aussie Lager :huh: 

Batz h34r:


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## brettprevans (6/5/10)

I asked the same question about a year ago batz. Don't remember the answer though. I'm on the iPhone so I'm not searching the responses to my question though. Sorry.
Edit
screw it I'm procrastinating from study. Results here
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...amp;hl=Radieuse

bugger all use though. I'd certainly be interested in the responses though


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## white.grant (6/5/10)

Clearly we all love it but haven't made it. 

My google fu could be off, but I can't find anything on the interwebs that hints at a recipe either - lots for the blonde but nothing for the radieuse. 

cheers

grant


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## Batz (7/5/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> I asked the same question about a year ago batz. Don't remember the answer though. I'm on the iPhone so I'm not searching the responses to my question though. Sorry.
> Edit
> screw it I'm procrastinating from study. Results here
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...amp;hl=Radieuse
> ...




Yes I found that thread city, and also came up with nothing on my goggle attempts. It's an interesting one hey? 

Batz


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## Eater (7/5/10)

Could you not take the base grains of the Blonde or other trappist grain builds, tweak with say a grain that gives a darker red hue, add a dash of coriander to give it the spice and stick with a low to medium bitterness hop build using german noble hops (still not sure on my hop tastes so i wont offer a suggestion)? All the reviews talk about caramel notes and one even describes its a a fruitcake (cherry) flavour similar to a christmas beer. They (WWW) also say that the Radieuse is a more bitter beer than the Blonde, so that may help in calculations.

Other things i have found: 
- Bannana flavour (subtle) totally yeast driven
- Yeast used is a top fermenting yeast, something that can handle the higher ABV level (narrow it down a bit)
- Spring water from high in the mountains used originally (Leffe valley)
- From WWW : The ingredients are dark malt, corn, water, hops and spices (coriander, among others) and yeast which give it a bronze colour. (http://www.jamesclay.co.uk/beer-suppliers/terms-j-l)
(note:at work no coffee could just be talking out my arse)


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## Batz (7/5/10)

Eater said:


> Could you not take the base grains of the Blonde or other trappist grain builds, tweak with say a grain that gives a darker red hue, add a dash of coriander to give it the spice and stick with a low to medium bitterness hop build using german noble hops (still not sure on my hop tastes so i wont offer a suggestion)? All the reviews talk about caramel notes and one even describes its a a fruitcake (cherry) flavour similar to a christmas beer. They (WWW) also say that the Radieuse is a more bitter beer than the Blonde, so that may help in calculations.




I was thinking the same thing, and that's exactly what I'll do Eater, it's a bit of a challenge that has been thrown at me.

Batz


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## Eater (7/5/10)

I would be very keen to see what you think would be a good start, i like that particular beer so much i paid our Vintage cellars up here just a tad over $150 to get a carton up for me last xmas. To make my own would be heavenly.


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## Batz (7/5/10)

Eater said:


> I would be very keen to see what you think would be a good start, i like that particular beer so much i paid our Vintage cellars up here just a tad over $150 to get a carton up for me last xmas. To make my own would be heavenly.





I'll send you bottle to evaluate Eater

Batz


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## brettprevans (7/5/10)

It seems contrary to what Belgians do but maybe they used a lager yeast to hid the alc of this beer given that it's 8.2% and it's so clean. Nfi where the cherry comes from, it can't be fruit si must be yeast driven somehow. 
Maybe it's the same trick employed in white rabbit (well one bloke recons they use raspberries in the clone thread - highly unlikely but a yeast or malt trick makes more sense).


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## Fourstar (7/5/10)

subtitles taken form their website description if it helps

This full-bodied Radieuse is slightly more bitter than Leffe Triple. It has the most hops of all Leffe beers.

A deep brown, almost rusty colour and an alcohol content of 8.2%. Lets first pour the perfect Leffe.

Its best to pour the bottle at an angle of 45 degrees. Now lets have a sip.

Its got this great fruity flavour with a hint of banana and a lovely spicy clove taste and coriander

Did you taste the smokiness and hints of citrus too?

Thats why it goes great with lobster and cheese.


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## brettprevans (7/5/10)

So it's made with smoked lobster and cheese?! U good 4*. u can do better than that, I know u can


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## Fourstar (7/5/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> So it's made with smoked lobster and cheese?! U good 4*. u can do better than that, I know u can




I dont want to stir up Batz complex disorder and try and make up a belgian recipe that i know almost nothing about. Besides, the only belgians ive made have been witbiers h34r: (oh and a faux saison)

I know... shame... shame!


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## brettprevans (7/5/10)

MI'M thinking a trick with special b and yeast. No idea why just a gut feeling. It's the cook in mE


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## white.grant (8/5/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> MI'M thinking a trick with special b and yeast. No idea why just a gut feeling. It's the cook in mE



I think you're right, definitely in the yeast and a manipulated fermentation no doubt. 

I reckon that there's a quantity of dark sugar/candi in there as well, maybe some wheat too


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## Batz (8/5/10)

Fourstar said:


> I dont want to stir up Batz complex disorder




Good idea


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## Eater (8/5/10)

That would be great Batz 

Ok so far i can see a call for :
Wheat (50%+?)
Special B (caramel tones)
Pils malt (guessing)
Wyeast 1762 or 3522 (taken from various blonde recipes about the nets)
Reddish hued grain (Carared?)
Coriander
Citrus flavouring hop addition (or maybe bitter orage peel like a wit)
Dark candi sugar for gravity im guessing
Small dark smokey grain addition (Rauchmalt?)

Still to create flavour for the cherry hint and the clove (im assuming putting cherries and cloves in is not the way to do it). How do xmas beers get the flavour of cherries in?


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## Sydneybrewer (8/5/10)

i would say they use a slightly higher then average fermentation to get the fruit/cloves flavour but still low enough for clean alcohol, would have to be a delicate balance.


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## Dazza_devil (25/9/10)

Had the opportunity to sample this delicious beer last night, alongside the blonde, and I have to say that I now have a thing for redheads.
Very keen to make an attempt at something similar to it and would like some pointers for an extract or partial recipe.
Anyone have anything a little more specific than previously mentioned as yet?


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## Dazza_devil (27/9/10)

WY3787 might be the one but not sure.
WY3522 sounds like it might give something similar.
WY1388 dunno,

what do you reckon, any of these or perhaps another?


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## MaltyHops (27/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> WY3787 might be the one but not sure.
> WY3522 sounds like it might give something similar.
> WY1388 dunno,
> 
> what do you reckon, any of these or perhaps another?


No idea what Radieuse is like but sounds psoitively good so might have to go
and try to find one.

Perhaps another interesting angle is THIS REVIEW concludes Radieuse is a bit like
a Scottish Wee Heavy and the Wyeast style description could be informative.

Being a K&E brewer at the moment, Coopers' Wee Heavy scotch-ale recipe
might make the following interesting to try:

1.7kg Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale beer kit
1.5kg Thomas Coopers Amber Malt Extract
500g Dark Brown Sugar
Wyeast 1762 - Belgian Abbey II
(and Saaz?)

Tom


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## Swinging Beef (27/9/10)

23 litre batch, 60% eff
7kg pils
.2 cr120
.1 melanoiden
.1 roast
.2 munich
30g northern brewer 60min 20IBU
50G tetenang 60min 20IBU
10g saaz flameout
1kg sugar
SG 1080
FG 1010
Wyeast 3787

Do not add the sugar till two weeks into fermentaion or once gravity is below 1020
You need a huge starter or 250ml or so of slurry.
Start fermentation at 16 deg for one week.
Raise temp to 18 deg for another week.
Drop in sugar, raise temp to 22deg till final gravity reached.


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## Quintrex (27/9/10)

SwingingBeef, is this your recipe?


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## Dazza_devil (27/9/10)

I didn't find this beer to be much like the blonde in a side by side, in fact I could of swore the blonde was more bitter and had a fairly different yeast profile but the Radieuse is 8.2% alc which may alter the perception.
A bit of Dark Belgian Candy Syrup wouldn't go astray would it?


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## Swinging Beef (27/9/10)

Quintrex said:


> SwingingBeef, is this your recipe?


Yes.

I had this beer in Rome (where you cant get good beer... apparently!)
Its been a favorite of mine for years.
Fortunately, my local bottle shop havent quite worked out what it is.
Leffe Blonde $6.95
Leffe Brune $8.95
Leffe Radiuse $4.50

Lets hope they never do.


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## Dazza_devil (28/9/10)

I think I paid 5 bux somethng for it, worth the money anyway.

Would you classify this beer as a Belgian Dark Strong Ale according to the guidelines?

I've found a nice lookin recipe in 'Brewing Classic Styles' by Zainasheff and Palmer that looks something similar, maybe. 
They are using around 5% Belgian Aromatic and just under 3% Melanoidin which I'm not sure I really want to try in an extract brew without any high DP base malts in the bill.
Maybe this brew could be a good one to put on the boiler until I'm doing AG, so to speak.


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## Swinging Beef (30/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> Maybe this brew could be a good one to put on the boiler until I'm doing AG, so to speak.


No way!
I find the best extract brews are the ones that do their best to conceal the extract aftertaste with overwhelming aromas and flavours of either hops, yeast or roast.
This one should be yeasty.
Go nuts!


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## brettprevans (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> 23 litre batch, 60% eff
> 7kg pils
> .2 cr120
> .1 melanoiden
> ...


I assume northern brewer is UK not US?
I also assume straight infusion mash at around 65C (for simplicity sake - I assume that actual beer is decoc mash)


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## Swinging Beef (30/9/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> I assume northern brewer is UK not US?
> I also assume straight infusion mash at around 65C (for simplicity sake - I assume that actual beer is decoc mash)


UK/US.... 60 minutes... who cares?
Single Infusion mash, 63 degrees.


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## brettprevans (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> UK/US.... 60 minutes... who cares?
> Single Infusion mash, 63 degrees.


cause they taste differant. thats why. 

mash temp makes sense for a little drier finish. 

looks good. might have to have a crack over summer


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## hazard (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> 23 litre batch, 60% eff
> 7kg pils
> .2 cr120
> .1 melanoiden
> ...


Roast malt? Where do you get that? Is brown malt an acceptable substitute?


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## Sammus (30/9/10)

hazard said:


> Roast malt? Where do you get that? Is brown malt an acceptable substitute?



if it's malt it's called black, roast means roasted barley, like this or this.


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## Sammus (30/9/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> cause they taste differant. thats why.
> 
> mash temp makes sense for a little drier finish.
> 
> looks good. might have to have a crack over summer



Reckon you could taste the difference of such a small bittering addition in a big belgian? I think you could ANY hop for bittering in this and noone would pick it.


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## brettprevans (30/9/10)

hazard said:


> Roast malt? Where do you get that? Is brown malt an acceptable substitute?


brown malt wont do as a sub. roast is common as. should be able to get it anywhere. black malt, roast barley, black patent etc. all roughly the same thing.
failing that ive got shite loads of roast. I can give you 100g for free.

edit: beaten by sammus



Sammus said:


> Reckon you could taste the difference of such a small bittering addition in a big belgian? I think you could ANY hop for bittering in this and noone would pick it.


quite possibly, yeah. but i was asking becasue i havent made this before and it was a question. if i ever use US NB in this reciepe ill let you know. personally i dont think US NB is the go in this. you dont want to chance that wood/mint character coming through. IMO of course.

edit2: and of course by UK I actually mean germany. woops.


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## Swinging Beef (30/9/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> quite possibly, yeah. but i was asking becasue i havent made this before and it was a question. if i ever use US NB in this reciepe ill let you know. personally i dont think US NB is the go in this. you dont want to chance that wood/mint character coming through. IMO of course.


I tend to disagree with Sammus.
But not on this occasion.
Use whatever hop you want for 60 min in this beer.
You are talking 20ibu in a near 8kg grain bill.
Three fifteenths of a bee's dick will be the amount of flavour contributed by NB.


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## brettprevans (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> I tend to disagree with Sammus.
> But not on this occasion.
> Use whatever hop you want for 60 min in this beer.
> You are talking 20ibu in a near 8kg grain bill.
> Three fifteenths of a bee's dick will be the amount of flavour contributed by NB.


cool thanks for the info. 

another question, have you been getting that cherryish kick from the above recipe that you find in the actual radieuse?


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## Swinging Beef (30/9/10)

I cant think that cherry flavour has ever been on my mind when drinking the clone OR the actual.
It has some aromas and maybe some sourness from the yeast, that you might associate with stonefruit and cherry, but I reckon any cherry flavours you are getting visually from the red.


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## brettprevans (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> I cant think that cherry flavour has ever been on my mind when drinking the clone OR the actual.
> It has some aromas and maybe some sourness from the yeast, that you might associate with stonefruit and cherry, but I reckon any cherry flavours you are getting visually from the red.


good enough reason to go our and treat myself with buying a few for evaluation purposes


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## Batz (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> I cant think that cherry flavour has ever been on my mind when drinking the clone OR the actual.
> It has some aromas and maybe some sourness from the yeast, that you might associate with stonefruit and cherry, but I reckon any cherry flavours you are getting visually from the red.




Couldn't have said it better myself.
I am yet to brew a Radieuse clone, as a brewer who does not brew Belgium's often I need a recipe for this one off brew. I feel you maybe on the money there S.B. just need others feed back on your recipe  

Batz


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## Swinging Beef (30/9/10)

I may go do exactly the same.


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## hazard (30/9/10)

Sammus said:


> if it's malt it's called black, roast means roasted barley, like this or this.


OK thanks, i think I got a bit confused - I think i was was thinking "special roast" which appears in some american recipes, and is subbed with brown malt IIRC


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## white.grant (30/9/10)

I'm thinking that some caramelization of the first runnings could be interesting


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## winkle (30/9/10)

Just lightly caramelise the sugar to a reddish hue and bung a pinch of citric acid in with it as well, before using it in the kettle or in the fermenter.


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## white.grant (30/9/10)

winkle said:


> Just lightly caramelise the sugar to a reddish hue and bung a pinch of citric acid in with it as well, before using it in the kettle or in the fermenter.



Nice!


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## Dazza_devil (30/9/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> 23 litre batch, 60% eff
> 7kg pils
> .2 cr120
> .1 melanoiden
> ...




200g of Munich, would Weyermann Munich II suffice here? Wouldn't I have to make it a partial with Munich and the Melanoidin in there, subbing some Pilsner with LDME?
Those hop weights are for a full 1.080 boil for 60mins?


The grain bill for the Belgian Strong Dark Ale recipe in 'Brewing Classic Styles' looks interesting

All-Grain option

15lbs Continental Pilsner
3lbs Munich Malt
0.5lb Wheat Malt

1lb Aromatic
1lb Caramunich 60L
1lb Special B
0.5lb Melanoidin

1lb Cane Sugar

90 min boil because of the Pilsner I assume.

They have a single addition of [email protected] 60mins for 31.4 IBU


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## Sammus (30/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> 200g of Munich, would Weyermann Munich II suffice here? Wouldn't I have to make it a partial with Munich and the Melanoidin in there, subbing some Pilsner with LDME?
> Those hop weights are for a full 1.080 boil for 60mins?
> 
> 
> ...



SB, RexBanner, Ester Trub and myself all did the strong dark recipe from BCS for equipment comparison sake... is aging as we speak  Ester Trub isn't around at the moment, we're awaiting his return for the taste-off.


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## under (30/9/10)

SB the cellar your talking about is figgy cellars right?


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## Dazza_devil (1/10/10)

Sammus said:


> SB, RexBanner, Ester Trub and myself all did the strong dark recipe from BCS for equipment comparison sake... is aging as we speak  Ester Trub isn't around at the moment, we're awaiting his return for the taste-off.




WY1762?

is that the same yeast as WL530?


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## manticle (1/10/10)

WL 540 according to the Mr malty comparison chart: http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm#Wyeast_vs_WLP


530 is 3787.


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## Swinging Beef (1/10/10)

under said:


> SB the cellar your talking about is figgy cellars right?


Noneother


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## Swinging Beef (1/10/10)

Sammus said:


> SB, RexBanner, Ester Trub and myself all did the strong dark recipe from BCS for equipment comparison sake... is aging as we speak  Ester Trub isn't around at the moment, we're awaiting his return for the taste-off.


He he.. taste off.
If each of us have one 330 bottle of each others to taste.
Thats an 11.5% beer, man.
Im getting scared.
I reckon we need some impartials on the day, too.

IBU Volunteers?


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## Swinging Beef (1/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> 200g of Munich, would Weyermann Munich II suffice here? Wouldn't I have to make it a partial with Munich and the Melanoidin in there, subbing some Pilsner with LDME?
> Those hop weights are for a full 1.080 boil for 60mins?


Sure, why not. Its not exactly the same, but its a tiny amount and you are using these grains for colour and flavour, not so much for sugar, so no partial mash conversion is necessary.
yes, those are the hop weights.

Remember, guys, this is MY recipe, for MY gear, with MY dodgy skills and MY flawed taste buds.
Change anything you want, but for me, this is a close call on appearance, colour and flavour.

What Im looking forward to now, is the response to this thread in 6 months time, where the criticism of this recipe starts, even though the critics substituted grains, yeast, mash and ferment temps and hops.

"Hey, I did this recipe (with minor changes) and it tastes nothing like it"
<_<


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## under (1/10/10)

Sweet. Might have to make a trip up there.


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## white.grant (1/10/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> He he.. taste off.
> If each of us have one 330 bottle of each others to taste.
> Thats an 11.5% beer, man.
> Im getting scared.
> ...




Bring some to RAF (please)


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## Dazza_devil (1/10/10)

manticle said:


> WL 540 according to the Mr malty comparison chart: http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm#Wyeast_vs_WLP
> 
> 
> 530 is 3787.




It appears there is an error in one case then.
'Brewing Classic Styles' has WLP530 as Abbey Ale IV.
Mr Malty has 530 as Abbey Ale Yeast and WY3787 as an eqivalent

The BCS recipe in question has WLP530 Abbey Ale IV, WY1762 Belgian Abbey II or Fermentis Safbrew T-58 as appropraite yeast options.


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## manticle (1/10/10)

Worth an email. Jamil is responsible for both I believe (Mr malty and BCS)


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## felten (1/10/10)

Theres a typo in BCS in regards to that abbey ale, they mention it on one of their belgian CYBI episodes IIRC


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## Dazza_devil (1/10/10)

manticle said:


> Worth an email. Jamil is responsible for both I believe (Mr malty and BCS)




The error seems to be in 'Brewing Classic Styles', according to the White Labs website WLP540 is indeed Abbey Ale IV.


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## Swinging Beef (1/10/10)

Grantw said:


> Bring some to RAF (please)


Belgian ales at RAF make baby scotty cry


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## jakub76 (2/10/10)

Wow! 
Inspired by this thread I went out and bought a smallie of Leffe Radieuse and a couple of other yummy Belgians to go with my belgian brew day. I can not beleive how close this beer is to my last dubbel, based on JZ's recipe. Seriously, I smelt it and went "no way!", then a taste and I seriously could not believe how close this beer is to my last homebrewed Begian Dubbel. I thought they were identical...so I poured one of mine aswell so I can compare them side by side.





I marked the glasses coz I know I would have got them mixed up in no time. 'L' on the left is the Leffe and 'M' on the right is mine. Here's my recipe straight out of the brew log...

_JZs Belgian Dubbel
With Hallertau instead of Tettnanger + 30g more candi syrup (1/2 a 500ml bottle)

ALL GRAIN	22 litres

4.8kg	Pilsner Malt (Dingermans)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g	Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
230g	White Sugar

20g	Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.3% (2008)	60min
10g	Hallertau Mittelfruh 6.3% (2009)	60min (using up stores)

Yeast WLP530 starter made 4 days early then fed 1st runnings. Very active.

16IBU (Tinseth / 22 IBU Rager) based on 70% efficiency 

1.064 OG recorded 1.012 FG Recorded
6.5% ABV + .2% priming (120g Dextrose) = 6.7%

Added 1/3 tsp of bicarb to 17L mash water adding alkalinity to cater for 12-18SRM_

I fermented at 18C finishing at 21C. These beers are SO DAMN CLOSE! Drinking them side by side there are some subtle differences and I would tweak the recipe a little if I was going for a clone. The most prominent being the more obvious alcohol warmth in the leffe, both in aroma and flavour. 

The aroma is almost identical, dark fruit sweetness...where the Leffe opens up at the tail end with a slight solvent note, my dubbel seems to close with a nutty finish, perhaps just a touch more intense dark fruit too - but very, very close. 

Both have complex, rich fruit flavours. Again the Leffe dissipates with alcohol warmth, very balanced thoughout while my lingers a bit longer and finishes sweet. I personally prefer Chiimay Red - I'm a sucker for caramel - so I have since changed my recipe to reflect a move in that direction...however if I wanted to clone Leffe Radieuse there's not much I would change. I reckon the malt bill is pretty much spot on but I'd add more of the base pilsener to match the ABV.

I would up the IBU's to around 20 Tinseth - I get no late hop character from the Leffe, definately a bit more bitter but no obvious Saaz or Styrian Goldings flavour so I'd stick to Hallertau at 60 min. 

As far as water profile...I would look at upping the sulphates balance slightly, my soft water favours chlorides at about 3:1 so I'd throw in some salts to get the calcium to 50ppm and the chlorides to sulphates balanced. 

I would up the carbonation to 160g dex looking for around 2.8 gravities. 

For a clone of the Leffe, I reckon the WLP530 is definatley the same yeast profile. I was a bit underwhelmed, I prefer the clovy spiciness of Chimay Red but I have no doubt that the Leffe and mine share the same yeast profile - seriously I cannot beleive how close these beers are!

Now that they're both warm (I've been writing this for a while) the Leffe is revealing a hint of roast that wasn't there earlier and mine seems a lot more 'drinkable' (dangerous). I have a six pack or so left of my dubbel and I would be more than willing for a reputable brewer to come by and do the pepsi challenge, byo Leffe Rad of-course  

Cheers


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## Dazza_devil (3/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Wow!
> Inspired by this thread I went out and bought a smallie of Leffe Radieuse and a couple of other yummy Belgians to go with my belgian brew day. I can not beleive how close this beer is to my last dubbel, based on JZ's recipe. Seriously, I smelt it and went "no way!", then a taste and I seriously could not believe how close this beer is to my last homebrewed Begian Dubbel. I thought they were identical...so I poured one of mine aswell so I can compare them side by side.
> 
> View attachment 41184
> ...



Looks good.
When did you add the Candi Syrup and Sugar?
What amount of the Pilsner Malt would be acceptable in a partial with extract and the rest of the grain bill. Would you decrease the amount of Munich as well?


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## jakub76 (3/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Looks good.
> When did you add the Candi Syrup and Sugar?
> What amount of the Pilsner Malt would be acceptable in a partial with extract and the rest of the grain bill. Would you decrease the amount of Munich as well?


I put the sugars in towards the end of the boil. 
I don't do many extracts but I guess you could mix Pilsener and Munich extract and just steep the specialty grains. Or you could do a partial with the munich and specialty and use however much pilsener extract hits your numbers, but if you're already mashing the munich why not just go the whole hog. Here's my tweaked recipe...

_5.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
450g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
230g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
300g White Sugar

42g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.2% 60min - 20 IBU (Tinseth)

Yeast WLP530

1.075 OG estimated 1.015 FG estimated
7.9% ABV + .3% priming (160g Dextrose) = 8.2%
_
I've still got a half bottle of the dark candi so I might have to give this revision a go.


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## white.grant (4/11/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> 23 litre batch, 60% eff
> 7kg pils
> .2 cr120
> .1 melanoiden
> ...



I'm going to have a go at this today. Will be keen to see how it turns out.

cheers

grant


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## Swinging Beef (4/11/10)

jakub76 said:


> I have a six pack or so left of my dubbel and I would be more than willing for a reputable brewer to come by and do the pepsi challenge, byo Leffe Rad of-course
> 
> Cheers


Hmm... sounds tempting... where do you live in Sydney? :icon_cheers: 

The beers in the photo look incredibly close!
Great stuff.


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## Sciclone (13/12/10)

After reaffirming my liking of the Radieuse, I'm going to give this one a crack next. Although I might reduce the candi syrup just slightly, to make sure I don't get the metho-y taste some of the heavier Belgian ales get.


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## dr K (13/12/10)

Sciclone said:


> After reaffirming my liking of the Radieuse, I'm going to give this one a crack next. Although I might reduce the candi syrup just slightly, to make sure I don't get the metho-y taste some of the heavier Belgian ales get.


Complex beers do not require a complex blend of ingredients, the complexity is created by the yeast and the brewer, using many malts will more likely muddy than clarify.
Were I to this:
First pick your yeast (there are a number of suitable strains)
Dingemaans Pils as base is best option, Weyermann Bohemian Pils too has a good malt backbone or a European Pale Ale malt , used by a good brewer Barrett and Burston or Joe White Pale is fine if not the best choice.
You are going to start high (SG) and as a result finish high so no matter what base grain you use you will have/can have a good malt backbone, its just easier with Ding Pils.
Of course you may need an additional dimension, Abbey or Aromatic (either or not both) would be a good choice.
The killer ingredient may be D2 Dark Candi Sugar syrup (easily available), this will add colour and its own complex mix of figs and chocolate, of course if you have chosen to add a heap of various dark malts as well you either have to cut the qty of the D2 or end up with too dark a beer.
If you were to go this way the malt bill would be something like
Ding Pils or sub as base
Some aromatic at 5% (optional)
D2 to required EBC.


K


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## Bongchitis (14/12/10)

I like the way you roll Dr K.


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## McFeast (12/6/11)

any recent updates to these Leffe Radieuse recipes?


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## raven19 (15/6/11)

Similar version to Jakub's above is in my fermentor, and probably ready to bottle soon. Will report back once ready to sample.

Brewed a triple batch with Maltyhops a few months back, his won't be fermented for a while yet though as I understand.


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## MaltyHops (15/6/11)

About the only thing we can add that hasn't been mentioned before is we
figured to mash in at 65C - which Jakub also agreed with - for 90 mins
and mash out at 78C for 10 mins (according to Rav's brewsmith record).
We also left out the white sugar as we reached the target OG without it
- somehow we managed to get an efficiency of 80% on Rav's awesome rig.

Interestingly, I had an extra 7L or so of wort that I put into tupperware
containers full to the brim and froze for future use. The expanding ice
caused malt treacle to be force out of the containers and drip onto the
freezer floor - probably lost a few SGs' worth :angry: Probably a good
idea to leave a cm or so clearance below the brim when doing this.

I plan to ferment mine in July during Uni mid-year break and look forward
to being able to compare our efforts with the real deal.

T.


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## Akavango (4/9/11)

jakub76 said:


> I put the sugars in towards the end of the boil.
> I don't do many extracts but I guess you could mix Pilsener and Munich extract and just steep the specialty grains. Or you could do a partial with the munich and specialty and use however much pilsener extract hits your numbers, but if you're already mashing the munich why not just go the whole hog. Here's my tweaked recipe...
> 
> _5.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
> ...



Hello Jakub,

This recipe is going on my short list. couple of questions,
What temperature was the mash at and what about the sparge? How long was the mash?
What about the boil? 90'?
How long did you ferment before you bottled?
Thanks.


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## balconybrewer (4/9/11)

.


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## MaltyHops (4/9/11)

Had occasion to crack open the half bottle that was the remainder
from bottling of my first batch a few weeks ago ... Deee-vine! :icon_drool2: 
Not sure how well it compares to the real stuff - looking forward
to getting Jakub's feedback on it - but it is tasting real good.

I ended up fermenting my first bacth at 18C all the way through
(without the ramp up to 21C towards end of primary as Jakub
suggested) - the gravity stopped dropping after about two weeks
and I ended up leaving it on the yeast cake for another two weeks
or so before chilling down to about 5C for a day before racking to
bulk prime and bottling.

I pitched about two cups of the WLP530 slurry that I thought had
the most yeast into my second batch and this one took off much
faster with gravity getting down to about 1010 after about one week
- again at 18C all the way through. This one seemed to be a bit
dryer than the first batch, will have to wait for bottling to check
this more closely.

T.


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## Akavango (30/12/11)

Tested a bottle of mine next to the real thing and it is extremely close. A great recipe!
It had been in the bottle for 7 weeks so it could use some more ageing but it was fantastic already.
Thanks for the great recipe.


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## Dazza88 (30/12/11)

great beer. and i got wyeast 3787, may have to try it out.


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## jeremy (24/4/13)

Hey all,

Sorry about the old thread but I am eager to give the recipe Jakob posted above a go and I have an issue, I haven't been able to source any Aroma Malt, so I have picked up some Caraaroma instead.

What do people think about substituting Aroma for Caraaroma? I presume the sensible thing to do would be to drop back the Special B, and/or the CaraMunich to compensate?



jakub76 said:


> I put the sugars in towards the end of the boil.
> I don't do many extracts but I guess you could mix Pilsener and Munich extract and just steep the specialty grains. Or you could do a partial with the munich and specialty and use however much pilsener extract hits your numbers, but if you're already mashing the munich why not just go the whole hog. Here's my tweaked recipe...
> 
> _5.8kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
> ...


Cheers,

Jeremy.


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## tiprya (24/4/13)

Aromatic is a stronger Munich-ish malt. Caraaroma is a dark crystal malt, similar to Special B.

It's not a straight sub at all, so you should drop some of your Special B (so the total dark crystal malt is similar) and due to the lack of aromatic, I'd drop more of the pilsner and replace it with more Munich.


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## Nick JD (24/4/13)

The spec malts are not very important in this beer compared to the dark syrup and the 3787.

As long as you hit the EBC it'll taste very similar.


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## manticle (24/4/13)

Not used cara-aroma but I use aromatic a fair bit these days -it's closer to victory malt than to any of the crystals. I'd be grabbing some biscuit or victory as closer (but not exact) subs.


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## jeremy (24/4/13)

Cheers for the replies all. I am brewing tomorrow and wont be getting my hands on any Victory or Biscuit in the meantime so I think I will have to settle for a something along the lines of tipryas suggestion. 

Maybe drop the Special B by halfish, adding another 250g of Munich, and losing 200g of Pilsener. Like this:

5.6kg Pilsner Malt (Dingerman's)
700g Munich Light (12L)
230g CaraMunich (60L)
230g Aromatic (18L)
100g Special B (120L)

370g Dark Candi Syrup (half a 500ml bottle)
300g White Sugar

42g Hallertau Mittelfruh 5.2% 60min

WYeast 3787

1.075 OG estimated, 1.015 FG estimated


See how we go!


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## McFeast (29/5/13)

Jez, howd you end up going with this?


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## jeremy (30/5/13)

Hey McFeast,

I got it in the keg a couple of weeks back. Had an issue with hitting my desired SG, so I bumped it up with another 300grams of table sugar after a few days in Primary.

A lovely brew at the moment, have snuck a few cheeky glasses so far but trying to hold off with hitting it too hard, hoping it will age well. I gave it the old pepsi challenge against the real thing the other day, looked identical in the glass (I genuinely couldnt tell the difference) and I thought I might be onto an excellent clone but as soon as I tasted the real thing I realised I hadn't hit the mark.

I would need to be tasting both as I write to describe the difference, but there was just _something_ about the commercial beer that I really liked that wasn't present in my version. Don't get me wrong, I am super happy with my beer, absolutely lovely, but it doesn't do justice to the real thing.

I have created Belgian strong ales in the past that I have been super happy with, and it's not until I bring home a Leffe or a Duvel and taste them right along side one another that I find that for some reason mine is just not up to that standard. It might be an issue with the age of the beer (I never leave mine for long enough), it might be the fact that I always use Joe White Traditional as a base (not that there is anything wrong with that!) Just realised that my recipe above quotes Dingemans Pilsner, I didn't use this, I used JW Trad.

Anyone else find that they can't quite create that Leffe flavour?


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## Nick JD (30/5/13)

You need God on your side to brew like a monk.

God know what you need to brew like a German. A BMW? A robot-like attitude?


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## WarmBeer (30/5/13)

Nick JD said:


> God know what you need to brew like a German. A BMW? A robot-like attitude?


Braumeister?


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## Nick JD (30/5/13)

WarmBeer said:


> Braumeister?


Stainless BIAB? Surely not.


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