# The NEIPA thread



## devoutharpist

Hello All

After conversations of this style popping up in other threads, I'm interested in finding out how everyone else had gone with brewing NEIPAs? I'd be keen to see some recipes and get some tips etc. Now that i think about it, there are a lot of issues that pop up with brewing this style... stuck mashes from heavy adjuncts, oxygen exposure, mysterious honey malt, hop burn, hop creep and diacetyl butter bombs. 

Initially i wasn't too impressed with commercial offerings here in Australia and considered it to be a fad style as i know many others did (and still do). But then, and at the risk of a humble brag, i was fortunate enough to try some examples from overseas which seem to be considerably better than most of the ones here. So i decided to try and brew my own up to the standard that i desire (with mixed results)...

Batch one i followed the Perfectly Average NEIPA recipe (sans the elusive honey malt) and got something that looked the part and tasted the part... except for the caustic hop burn if the bottle wasn't carefully poured to ensure that all the hop particles stayed in the bottle. It oxidised really fast though, so it was only good for a couple weeks.

Batch two was a mess (following a popular recipe from Homebrewtalk).. stuck mash, fridge died and ruined fermentation. Finished as a sweet mess with no haze, i'm hoping that MAYBE it can age into something drinkable but this might become my first poured homebrew batch. 

I'm hesitant to jump straight back into it given the $$$ that these brews cost with the sheer amount of hops. Might need to find somewhere that sells good bulk prices and then vacuum seal what i don't use. I have slowly been upgrading my equipment and i am in the position where i can do closed transfers to a keg... i just need to get a new fridge so i can actually cold crash and keep the fermentation under control. 

I am thinking something along the lines of (copied out of my WIP beersmith recipe for attempt 3)..

1.060OG
77.3% Pale malt
7.6% Flaked barley
7.6% Flaked oats
7.6% White wheat
(Lots of rice hulls, soaked before adding to the mash - have heard this soaking helps but haven't tried it yet)

Maybe Citra/Mosaic/Idaho-7 combo. Small FWH addition for a little bit of bitterness, heavy whirlpool hops and then a heavy dry hop at day 2-3 (high krausen). I'm not really a big fan of galaxy, which hurts because it's the cheapest, so i might try I7 as a replacement. 

Yeast wise i am undecided, i have an S04 in the fridge, but i could go London III again. Then i would probably have to make a starter though, haven't really had much luck with liquid yeast.

end musings.


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## wide eyed and legless

I have never brewed one or had the inclination to brew one but if I did this is the man I would turn to for advice. Gordon Strong the only 3 time NHC winner and the Grand Poo bah of beer judges in the USA .
https://byo.com/article/neipa-style-profile/


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## philrob

I prefer to drink beer, rather than hop juice.

I have tasted a whole range of these at my brewclub, and can't for the life of me see the attraction in them. For me, they are totally unbalanced.


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## Ferg

In terms of a stuck mash I've had massive improvements by conditioning the grain and using malted oats. Last hop combo was Idaho 7, Ekuanot & Amarillo which was really good. Wai-iti is very nice for a dry hop too.


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## devoutharpist

Ferg said:


> In terms of a stuck mash I've had massive improvements by conditioning the grain and using malted oats. Last hop combo was Idaho 7, Ekuanot & Amarillo which was really good. Wai-iti is very nice for a dry hop too.



Is there any difference in mouthfeel etc for using malted oats? Too bad my LHBS doesn't appear to stock them


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## goatchop41

devoutharpist said:


> 1.060OG
> 77.3% Pale malt
> 7.6% Flaked barley
> 7.6% Flaked oats
> 7.6% White wheat
> (Lots of rice hulls, soaked before adding to the mash - have heard this soaking helps but haven't tried it yet)
> 
> Maybe Citra/Mosaic/Idaho-7 combo. Small FWH addition for a little bit of bitterness, heavy whirlpool hops and then a heavy dry hop at day 2-3 (high krausen). I'm not really a big fan of galaxy, which hurts because it's the cheapest, so i might try I7 as a replacement.
> 
> Yeast wise i am undecided, i have an S04 in the fridge, but i could go London III again. Then i would probably have to make a starter though, haven't really had much luck with liquid yeast.



- My first thoughts are that a lot of people seem to make their grain bills too complicated when trying to achieve the haze. I wouldn't really think that the flaked barley is necessary, oats and wheat will do the job. Even then, just bog standard rolled oats from the supermarket will achieve what you want.

- I personally prefer a more flavourful base malt, and go for a maris otter type for the main malt.

- I agree with the other user regarding conditioning the malt - it works with wheat too, and will help to avoid stuck mashes/sparges.

- There are multiple factors that play in to getting the haze, but the most important that I have personally found (from the five NE style beers that I've made) have been the yeast and the dry hop timing. I have made a couple of batches with just gladfield ale malt, with a little bit of vienna and wheat malt (no oats, no 'flaked anything') and still had fantastic haze.
I use Gigayeast Vermont IPA as my yeast, as it gives the right flavours that I look for, and supposedly biotransforms hop oils. Londan Ale III has great reviews. I did one batch with MJ New World Strong and one with S04, I wasn't happy with either of them at all.
For dry hop timing - I just throw the first DH in when I pitch my yeast (I found that I got the same results doing this as I did when trying to stuff around with timing it for a certain amount of time after fermentation had started), then the second about 2 days before I keg the beer. My experience was that when I didn't dry hop before/during fermentation, then I got a poor haze.

- I also strongly believe that you won't make a great NEIPA unless you are altering your water chemistry - at least going 2:1 chloride:sulphate, to help achieve the smooth and full mouthfeel, whilst avoiding accentuating bitterness.

- Lastly, I go as hard as I can with >5 min/flameout additions, getting pretty much all of my IBUs from it.


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## Dan Pratt

100% - agree with this dot point

- I also strongly believe that you won't make a great NEIPA unless you are altering your water chemistry - at least going 2:1 chloride:sulphate, to help achieve the smooth and full mouthfeel, whilst avoiding accentuating bitterness.


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## devoutharpist

Lots of good info here, water chemistry is something i have been looking at for a while, but haven't actually taken the plunge. Perhaps it is time, i hope the SA Water reports are accurate. 

Also on the Vermont IPA yeast, a quick Google looks as though there is only one supplier online in Australia. Could be a candidate for an overbuilt starter. 

I also get my grains milled by my LHBS so sadly i can't do conditioning. But i guess that is the idea behind the soaking of the rice hulls before addition as well. 

What sort of mash temps has everyone gone for?


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## Schikitar

Following this thread as I'll be brewing my first NEIPA in about a month or so (my brother has done quite a few of them). I have a recipe that is based off of a few sources but the inspiration is a beer I had whilst in Vancouver called Colour & Shape by Superflux, it's probably the best NEIPA/Hazy I've ever had! On the yeast front my LHBS has put in a fresh order for this - https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp067-coastal-haze-ale-yeast-blend - I'll give that a crack, my brother likes London Fog Ale. I'll post my recipe-in-progress a little later down the track for some feedback..


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## devoutharpist

The other part of recipe formation i have wondered about is getting that slight "orange" colour (ala Treehouse Julius). I assume that this often comes from the honey malt in most homebrew recipes that i see.. so i guess the Aussie equivalent would be to chuck in a little crystal (C10 or C20).


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## Dan Pratt

Hi, 

A couple of things i have learnt from making the style:

yeast strains are over rated. 
You will get great NEIPA beers with US05, BRY97, English S04 etc, it doesnt have to be liquid vermont or conan
Ive tried those liquid ones, aroma and overalll beers same outcome with above mentioned dry strains.

Rice hulls not required for < 50% of grain bill oats or wheat
with 70% pale or pils, you get plenty of fitration to prevent stuck mash
@ 50% for wheat beers its no issue, this style no different

Water Matters
getting that 2:1 will accentuate mouthfeel and hop flavours
100ppm to 50ppm , 150ppm to 75ppm or as high as 200ppm to 100ppm on the 8% and above

Hops matter
To get Juicy tropical aroma and flavour you need certian types to get that "biotranformation"
Amarillo, Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe, Nelson, Galaxy, Eldorado, Idaho7 etc etc
C Hops dont work very well - chinook, columbus, cascade, centennial, crystal, they dont have that linalool to covert 

Colour Adjustment ( Orange ) - options or all at once
Switch up the base malt to Maris Otter instead of pale or pils - will deepen colour, or a 50/50 blend
Add 3-5% of either light Crystal, Carared or Melanoiden
Vienna and Munich work also

Dry Hop timing and amounts
1st round, 12hrs after krausen has formed - i have clear fermentasaurus and can gauge this
anywhere from 3g/L to 6g/L

2nd round, when krausen drops out ( gravity usually 5-6 from terminal ) 
anywhere from 5g/l to 10g/L


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## damohb

hill farmstead, treehouse and trillium don't use any oats or flaked adjuncts in their NEIPAs, and they are known for their mouthfeel


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## hoppy2B

I personally don't subscribe to the idea of trying to achieve haze by adding oats and wheat to the grain bill. From what I have read, I was under the impression that oats are good for yeast health and their addition has always resulted in the clearest beers I have ever made. I think sulphates also help to clear beer for the same reason, they're good for yeast health.

I have no trouble achieving haze by simply adding lots of hops late. If I do decide to start dry hopping again I will use pellets because I expect that the pressing process during manufacturing tends to kill any microbes present, and should result in less likelihood of infection. I find pellets to be kind of rank compared to whole cones though. So I guess it's best not to leave them in very long.

I did notice that Beerbelly sell Galaxy by the kilogram. It's a pity you aren't too keen on them devoutharpist. Maybe you could ask them if they have other varieties for sale by the kilo at a reduced rate. Otherwise, maybe you could grow some hops. I grow most of mine.


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## devoutharpist

Dan Pratt said:


> Hi,
> 
> Dry Hop timing and amounts
> 1st round, 12hrs after krausen has formed - i have clear fermentasaurus and can gauge this
> anywhere from 3g/L to 6g/L
> 
> 2nd round, when krausen drops out ( gravity usually 5-6 from terminal )
> anywhere from 5g/l to 10g/L



Thanks for the learnings, this is the sort of information i am after. When dry hopping (in particular the later addition), do you do anything to avoid oxidation? Unless you are saving the trub bottle from the fermentasaurus for the final addition? Oh... and any chance of a photo of any of your NEIPA for interests sake?



hoppy2B said:


> I did notice that Beerbelly sell Galaxy by the kilogram. It's a pity you aren't too keen on them devoutharpist. Maybe you could ask them if they have other varieties for sale by the kilo at a reduced rate. Otherwise, maybe you could grow some hops. I grow most of mine.



Might give them a go, they have been pretty responsive and helpful in the past. I do actually have four rhizomes about to hit their third season, but none of them are overly appropriate for the style (and i had a horrible year last year, not sure what it was but i had about half the harvest of the year before).


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## goatchop41

Dan Pratt said:


> yeast strains are over rated.
> You will get great NEIPA beers with US05, BRY97, English S04 etc, it doesnt have to be liquid vermont or conan
> Ive tried those liquid ones, aroma and overalll beers same outcome with above mentioned dry strains.


They may make a decent NEIPA, but they definitely don't make a great NEIPA like those liquids do. Perhaps you used them at a less than optimal temp if you didn't feel that the liquid yeasts made a difference?



Dan Pratt said:


> Dry Hop timing and amounts
> 1st round, 12hrs after krausen has formed


Have you tried dry hopping when pitching?


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## goatchop41

P.S. There is some research that has shown that hop oil extraction when dry hopping seem to essentially plateau at about 8g/L. Do with that info what you will


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## Company of one

Schikitar said:


> Following this thread as I'll be brewing my first NEIPA in about a month or so (my brother has done quite a few of them). I have a recipe that is based off of a few sources but the inspiration is a beer I had whilst in Vancouver called Colour & Shape by Superflux, it's probably the best NEIPA/Hazy I've ever had! On the yeast front my LHBS has put in a fresh order for this - https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp067-coastal-haze-ale-yeast-blend - I'll give that a crack, my brother likes London Fog Ale. I'll post my recipe-in-progress a little later down the track for some feedback..


Big tick for London Fog in a NEIPA.


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## Dan Pratt

devoutharpist said:


> Thanks for the learnings, this is the sort of information i am after. When dry hopping (in particular the later addition), do you do anything to avoid oxidation? Unless you are saving the trub bottle from the fermentasaurus for the final addition? Oh... and any chance of a photo of any of your NEIPA for interests sake?



see below


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## Dan Pratt

Adding the 2nd round of hops at when the krausen falls out typically the FV is full of C02 ( fermentasaurus ) and opeing the lid to add hops has not cuased any issues. 

If i miss that windo by a day or 2 and feel the co2 level would be much lower, i add c02 through the lid port then open and reflush. 

I will chase up some photos of my Hazy IPAs for you


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## Dan Pratt

goatchop41 said:


> They may make a decent NEIPA, but they definitely don't make a great NEIPA like those liquids do. Perhaps you used them at a less than optimal temp if you didn't feel that the liquid yeasts made a difference?
> 
> 
> Have you tried dry hopping when pitching?



Maybe the temp was not high enough to drive those esters out, ferment at 19c so maybe. But to say they are decent, is an understatement, lol.

Dry hopping added at time of pitching, not yet. have you found its better for that bio transformation or just doing it becuase the lid is open?


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## RygorX

Hey all,
I've dabbled in the NEIPA journey with mixed results. 
I've been struggling getting some deep flavour with my Whirlpool to Dry hop ratios.
Last batch (23L) was around 120g Whirlpool to 240g Dry hop 

Interested to hear how you guys approach this ?


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## Company of one

Hey guys, As there has been a bit of discussion of late about this style I thought I'd put up a recipe that has worked for me.
I put this together using information I gleaned from BYO magazine where they broke down some of the mystery surrounding what they thought contributed different aspects of haze development in this style. 

The main focus from what I gathered was on the different hop additions at stages of boil and fermentation due to their oil composition, quite informative and written in an easy to understand way. This isn't their recipe but my take from the information they provided, designed for a citrus flavor profile.

Just note that if anyone uses this that you will need to scale the grain bill to suit your equipment efficiency, mine was low on this recipe probably due to being a thick mash, I mashed in with 20ltrs of strike water and 11.3ltrs of sparge water, all being RO water with salts to style.

Hope this helps anyone


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## Dan Pratt

RygorX said:


> Hey all,
> I've dabbled in the NEIPA journey with mixed results.
> I've been struggling getting some deep flavour with my Whirlpool to Dry hop ratios.
> Last batch (23L) was around 120g Whirlpool to 240g Dry hop
> 
> Interested to hear how you guys approach this ?



Are you adjusting the water profile also, or just plain tap water?

What you can try for whirlpool, is drop the temp with an IC to <80c and then add those hops for a 10min whirlpool. 

Plus the dry hops, are you adding these at high krausen and then again post ferment?

which hops are you using?


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## goatchop41

Dan Pratt said:


> Maybe the temp was not high enough to drive those esters out, ferment at 19c so maybe. But to say they are decent, is an understatement, lol.


I enjoyed the Gigayeast Vermont yeast the most when I pushed it up to 21-22oC. I felt that at those temps it expressed a lot more of the peach esters that it is known for, which also really complimented the stonefruit flavours from the hops.



Dan Pratt said:


> Dry hopping added at time of pitching, not yet. have you found its better for that bio transformation or just doing it becuase the lid is open?


I found that it gave me the exact same results as doing a DH during high krausen. I have stuck with doing it that way because it just makes things easier - I don't have to worry about monitoring the fermentation and trying to time the DH for a specific time. I just throw them in with the yeast, then come back once fermentation is tailing off and throw the second DH in.
It's really just for simplicity!


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## devoutharpist

Some more things i have been thinking about. 

Has anyone ever had issues with diacetyl and hop creep? My last one did... but i assume that was due to my fridge breaking early in the fermentation stage. Does anyone actively give the ferment a diacetyl rest after all of the hops have been added?

And... has anyone read that new Scott Janish book? I prefer my brewing books (or any reference books) in hard copy and i'm not really keen to pay the price that US amazon sets


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## RygorX

Dan Pratt said:


> Are you adjusting the water profile also, or just plain tap water?
> 
> What you can try for whirlpool, is drop the temp with an IC to <80c and then add those hops for a 10min whirlpool.
> 
> Plus the dry hops, are you adding these at high krausen and then again post ferment?
> 
> which hops are you using?



Hi yep treat my water, but the dry hops are post krausen so thats definitely something to look at.
Adding hops at krausen ive not had great success... as the yest seem to encapsulate the hops and drop out not leaving much impact.

Last batch whirlpool hops was at 95c so will try 85c (is 10 mins enough to extract everything ?)


Hops = Citra Centennial, Nelson, Sabro
As far as proportions whirlpool vs dry hop my proportions look ok ?


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## hoppy2B

Might give them a go, they have been pretty responsive and helpful in the past. I do actually have four rhizomes about to hit their third season, but none of them are overly appropriate for the style (and i had a horrible year last year, not sure what it was but i had about half the harvest of the year before).[/QUOTE]

Hops need lots of water especially in the heat. They will get through temperatures in the mid 40's without flinching if they have enough water, but will suffer and lose crop if under watered. 

What varieties are you growing? My favourite has been "Victoria" for fruity flavours. I have found the trick for Vic is to dry it for a number of weeks to get any off flavours out of it.

A new variety from W.A. that I grew for the first time last year is "Kracanup", which has an awesome fruity aroma but which I haven't brewed with yet but plan to soon. If it tastes anything like its aroma, it will be a hop that home growers will go mental for. The cones are just as big as the cones on Victoria.


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## goatchop41

devoutharpist said:


> Has anyone ever had issues with diacetyl and hop creep? My last one did... but i assume that was due to my fridge breaking early in the fermentation stage. Does anyone actively give the ferment a diacetyl rest after all of the hops have been added?


Hopefully the diacetyl issue can be simply solved by having a good fermentation profile. Ramping the temp late in fermentation and keeping it up at a good range when adding the dry hop should keep the yeast active enough that they will sort that out.
I can't comment on the hop creep, as I only keg, so it's not something that I get concerned about


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## devoutharpist

hoppy2B said:


> What varieties are you growing? My favourite has been "Victoria" for fruity flavours. I have found the trick for Vic is to dry it for a number of weeks to get any off flavours out of it.



I've got some victoria, tried that in an IPA but basically had hardly any flavour despite dumping in a whole bunch of flowers, so i will remember that trick. I've also got red earth, chinook and cascade. I've generally found it hard to use home grown stuff as it doesnt give me the bitterness or flavour that i want when brewing something like an IPA (using fresh picked or dried). At least the vines look nice haha. 

So i think for my next (NE)IPA i brew i might try for that Julius clone that seems pretty popular, except i can't seem to find Apollo anywhere so i'll have to sub that. The lack of flaked stuff appeals to me, given some of the discussions in this thread already. And i guess it is considered one of the OGs of the style.


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## hoppy2B

devoutharpist said:


> I've got some victoria, tried that in an IPA but basically had hardly any flavour despite dumping in a whole bunch of flowers, so i will remember that trick. I've also got red earth, chinook and cascade. I've generally found it hard to use home grown stuff as it doesnt give me the bitterness or flavour that i want when brewing something like an IPA (using fresh picked or dried). At least the vines look nice haha.
> 
> So i think for my next (NE)IPA i brew i might try for that Julius clone that seems pretty popular, except i can't seem to find Apollo anywhere so i'll have to sub that. The lack of flaked stuff appeals to me, given some of the discussions in this thread already. And i guess it is considered one of the OGs of the style.



Wow, I'm surprised that you don't get much flavour from Victoria. Some people complain about it having off flavours described as rotten cabbage. I find the beer needs about 6 to 8 weeks of ageing to start drinking well. With the extra drying of the cones there is less of the off flavour and the beer shouldn't need as much ageing. BelgraveBrewer says he uses it as a wet hop. I think you need a really light bodied beer to get the best out of it. 

I put the cones through a blender and then sift the meal through an ordinary sieve with 1 mm holes which I got at Kmart. I get the leafy volume down to half, but retain virtually all the lupulin. That means I can get more hops into the brew comfortably and breaking up the lupulin glands helps to release the flavour from the cones. 

Are you putting your cones through a blender just prior to use? Is it possible you don't have the right Victoria?


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## Company of one

hoppy2B said:


> Wow, I'm surprised that you don't get much flavour from Victoria. Some people complain about it having off flavours described as rotten cabbage. I find the beer needs about 6 to 8 weeks of ageing to start drinking well. With the extra drying of the cones there is less of the off flavour and the beer shouldn't need as much ageing. BelgraveBrewer says he uses it as a wet hop. I think you need a really light bodied beer to get the best out of it.
> 
> I put the cones through a blender and then sift the meal through an ordinary sieve with 1 mm holes which I got at Kmart. I get the leafy volume down to half, but retain virtually all the lupulin. That means I can get more hops into the brew comfortably and breaking up the lupulin glands helps to release the flavour from the cones.
> 
> Are you putting your cones through a blender just prior to use? Is it possible you don't have the right Victoria?


Interesting method, will try
I'm another home grower that is finding vibrant hop aromas hard to come by and tend to use my home grown as a bittering addition.
cheers


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## Schikitar

devoutharpist said:


> So i think for my next (NE)IPA i brew i might try for that Julius clone that seems pretty popular


Cool, I've looked at that recipe before , some great takeaways from it, let us know how you go with it!

The recipe I'm developing is based off of this find on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/bbfjyb/double_neipa_recipe_perfected/ - I'm scaling down from a double though, don't need that much ABV..


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## hoppy2B

Company of one said:


> Interesting method, will try
> I'm another home grower that is finding vibrant hop aromas hard to come by and tend to use my home grown as a bittering addition.
> cheers



One thought I have on that as well, is that maybe people are picking their hops too early before they are fully ripe.


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## devoutharpist

hoppy2B said:


> I put the cones through a blender and then sift the meal through an ordinary sieve with 1 mm holes which I got at Kmart. I get the leafy volume down to half, but retain virtually all the lupulin. That means I can get more hops into the brew comfortably and breaking up the lupulin glands helps to release the flavour from the cones.
> 
> Are you putting your cones through a blender just prior to use? Is it possible you don't have the right Victoria?



Perhaps this is where i am going wrong, do you dry and then blend? I just dried whole cones and chucked em in. That said, i am only going on the word of the dude from gumtree so they might not be. They smell pretty good though.



hoppy2B said:


> One thought I have on that as well, is that maybe people are picking their hops too early before they are fully ripe.



I feel like maybe i am picking them too late tbh, if that is possible? Any tips for honing in on maximum freshness?


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## devoutharpist

Schikitar said:


> Cool, I've looked at that recipe before , some great takeaways from it, let us know how you go with it!
> 
> The recipe I'm developing is based off of this find on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/bbfjyb/double_neipa_recipe_perfected/ - I'm scaling down from a double though, don't need that much ABV..



Will do, my plan is to update this thread when i give my next NEIPA a go. Just need to clear up some keg space first... I reckon i would go amarillo instead of the apollo in that recipe though (given that i cant get apollo). Would like to try something like Melba too, but haven't seen that anywhere.

I also saw that reddit recipe in my searches, looks pretty solid tbh. I think that guy's finished out at like 9% or something heavy?


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## hoppy2B

devoutharpist said:


> Perhaps this is where i am going wrong, do you dry and then blend? I just dried whole cones and chucked em in. That said, i am only going on the word of the dude from gumtree so they might not be. They smell pretty good though.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like maybe i am picking them too late tbh, if that is possible? Any tips for honing in on maximum freshness?



Don't know if there is any way to ensure maximum freshness. For flavour I find they don't need to be super fresh. They need extra drying to reduce likelihood of off flavours. IBUs seem to drop before flavour does for me in storage. I put them through the blender just before chucking them into the brew.

It's pretty hard to pick them too late. I leave them on the bines as long as possible within reason. Obviously you don't want the cones getting too brown.

A handful of freshly picked from the bine Victoria cones squeezed in the hand will have an aroma of peach.


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## Simon N

Anyone have luck bottling these and avoiding oxidation? I find the colour turns within about 4 weeks in the bottle


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## Ferg

devoutharpist said:


> Is there any difference in mouthfeel etc for using malted oats? Too bad my LHBS doesn't appear to stock them


Sorry for the late reply. No I can't say I've noticed any difference in mouthfeel. I reckon a lot of that comes from the water chemistry. I got my malted oats from beerco along with the gy54 yeast which I think works best. This one has stayed hazy from start to finish if that floats your boat.
Another thing that works really well is cryo keg hops. Massive punchy flavours and aromas.


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## Ferg

I brewed this beer early to mid May, photo taken today. I would probably mash a bit higher next time and also go with a 60min of the Amarillo to reduce the whirlpool quantity. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it. I'm guessing you could probably reduce the dry hop somewhat and still have a similar beer. I bought those hops by the kilo at a really good price so wasn't as concerned.


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## damohb

First attempt at an oat cream ipa today, guess it falls under this thread. 55% pilsner, 20% malted oats, 15% flaked oats, 5% lactose and 5% toffee/carafoam. Was aiming for 1.071 but only hit 1.068, which I guess wasn't too bad for 35% oats, I probably lost a bit through my crush of the malted oats?... Samples weren't pretty but it doesn't look too bad in the fermenter, aiming for that glowing yellow in the glass (~8 EBC). RO water adjusted for approx 60 Ca, 12 Mg, 60 Na, 150 Cl, 100 SO4. WLP066 yeast, 30 IBUs of Columbus at FWH, 30 min hopstand with 20g Columbus, 30g Mosaic, and 80g Citra, dropped from 74 C to around 60 C over the 30 minutes. Thinking either single or double dryhop of 3:1 citra:mosaic, and somewhere between 10-15g/L total...


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## Schikitar

damohb said:


> First attempt at an oat cream ipa today


Sounds good, keep us posted, you didn't include your hop schedule though? Hitting that perfect glowing colour can be tricky, if you get a chance post a pic when it hits the glass along with some tasting notes..


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## damohb

Forgot about that! updated the post


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## devoutharpist

just came across this via /r/homebrewing

https://tomohulk.github.io/nobody-got-time-for-that/

Some interesting stuff and i always like reading about other people's process, dunno if i am really a fan of no bittering additions in the boil (this dude just gets it to the boil to sanitise immersion chiller then goes straight to whirlpool)


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## Schikitar

After discovering that my main rotating keg is nearly empty (whoops!) I've decided to do an impromptu brew tomorrow (Sunday). 

Going to base it off of Gash's Jedi Juice clone recipe, a few changes to suit what I have onhand etc., should look something like this;

EDIT: Had to update this recipe as BF screwed up my post boil volume and hence all my weights/numbers, grrrrrrr! This is how it *should* have looked but I ended up having to alter my post boil volume and add 290g of sugar to get the OG up to scratch to hit 6%.. I was not happy, was feeling like it wasn't quite enough grain to begin with, anyway, here is the proper recipe..

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Specialty IPA: New England IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 28 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 33.5 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 73% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.067
Final Gravity: 1.021
ABV (standard): 6%
IBU (tinseth): 40.42
SRM (morey): 6.3
Mash pH: 5.35

FERMENTABLES:
4.29 kg - Simpson - Maris Otter (58.6%)
2.5 kg - Wheat Malt (34.2%)
300 g - Rolled Oats (4.1%)
230 g - CaraMunich II (3.1%)

HOPS:
50 g - Ahtanum, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: First Wort, IBU: 20.71
50 g - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.8, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 80 °C, IBU: 6.62
50 g - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.3, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 80 °C, IBU: 6.88
50 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 80 °C, IBU: 6.21
50 g - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.8, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
50 g - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.3, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
50 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
30 g - Azacca, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.8, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
30 g - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
30 g - Idaho 7, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.3, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
30 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 67 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 36 L

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
7.5 g - Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
4 g - Epsom Salt, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
6 ml - Lactic acid, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
1 tsp - Wyeast - Beer Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Boil
1 each - Campden Tablet, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Kegging

YEAST:
White Labs - London Fog Ale Yeast WLP066


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ 1021 Final Gravity is really high, what was the mash temp that you were using?


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## Schikitar

Dan Pratt said:


> 1021 Final Gravity is really high, what was the mash temp that you were using?


Well two things, the recipe above isn't exactly what I've got in the fermenter (it's what was supposed to be in there before BF changed a key number on me automatically and I didn't notice)! Hmmmm, maybe I should change that and post what I actually did instead of what I was intending to do..

Anyway, I was going to mash at 67 but it ended up being 65-66, so the FG on the actual brew should be 1.019 (still high but I think it might come out a point or two lower than that possibly). WLP066 isn't a great attenuator either but I did want some residual sugars in there to balance the large hop additions, another reason I chose it in addition to it's low flocculation. It is fermenting like a beast at the moment though so it will be interesting to see where it ends up..


----------



## damohb

I believe the attenuation specs on the White labs website are wrong for WLP066, it will probably be over 80% at that mash temp


----------



## The Mack

Question for the NEIPA guru's, brewed one yesterday that I've done before.. simple grain bill for 23L:

6 Kg Ale malt
700g Flaked oats
600g Wheat

Mashed at 67c for 90, 90 minute boil.

Brew day stuff up incoming:

I rushed this one after work and as a result I didn't measure mash pH, didn't measure pre or post boil gravities, ended up with a super slow run-off, overshot volume by 3L (it was 0130 so I didn't want to boil any longer) pitched an active starter and went to bed. In the morning I checked the gravity of the little bit of wort left in the kettle and I have ended up with 1.040 OG instead of my expected ~1.064 OG.
Emptied the malt pipe into a garbage bag and noticed a lot of intact grain, went and checked my mashmaster mill and sure enough one side of a roller had slipped and was wider than the other side, and in turn not crushing all the grain correctly.

My thoughts are to add 1.8 Kg dry malt extract when I add my day 3 hop charge, would you just go straight LDME or a mix- say 1Kg LDME, 800g Dry wheat malt extract?

Last thing I want is a thin, hop juicy water abomination.

Or I could re-brew using the same grain bill with a slightly smaller volume and higher gravity- blending the two?



What would you do?


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ Ok so you didnt measure pH, or pre or post gravitys and rushed a beer into the FV, so you really your outcome will be an abomination....

Now to try and be helpful, Id be leaving it alone at 1040, it will be very low ABV but you have alot on its side. 

1 - mouthfeel from oats and wheat
2 - higher mash temp so higher FG and body to the beer. 

Its likely you have very low IBU being a NEIPA so its going to be a juicey beer without ABV which isnt the end of the world. Write it down to brewing experience, it may be great beer.


----------



## Schikitar

damohb said:


> I believe the attenuation specs on the White labs website are wrong for WLP066, it will probably be over 80% at that mash temp


You appear to be correct, my FG was supposed to be 1.019, it's sitting at 1.014 (but mash temp on brew day actually fluctuated a little between 65-67 degrees)..


----------



## damohb

I had just over 80% at 68c last time I used it. Actually it looks like they have updated their website now to show 75-82%, most resellers are still showing the old data of 65-70%


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## Schikitar

damohb said:


> Actually it looks like they have updated their website now to show 75-82%, most resellers are still showing the old data of 65-70%


I adjusted the custom attenuation to 75% in BrewersFriend and that seems to align with my FG, now I've got a 6.75% beer instead of 6%.. live and you learn!


----------



## damohb

Just kegged this on Wednesday View media item 10945
70% american ale, 12% pale wheat malt, 6% carafoam, 4% toffee, 4% flaked wheat, 4% dextrose (10mins)
10 IBU Columbus FWH, 15 IBU Columbus 10min, 15 IBU Columbus hopstand starting at 74C for 20 min
OG was 1.066, 1.5L starter of WLP067, soft crashed at 1.015, harvested yeast, then
1st DH at Day 6 with 20g Columbus, 30g Citra, 50g Mosaic
2nd DH at Day 8 with 20g Columbus, 30g Mosaic, 60g Citra
Cold crashed day 9 for 2 days

No 2nd day hops, still super hazy


----------



## devoutharpist

Heads up any other SA brewers. Just saw that ibrewSA have some of the elusive honey malt in stock.


----------



## Silverfox

devoutharpist said:


> Heads up any other SA brewers. Just saw that ibrewSA have some of the elusive honey malt in stock.


Well shit, you just made my recipe a bit more interesting..


----------



## Dan Pratt

damohb said:


> Just kegged this on Wednesday View media item 10945
> 70% american ale, 12% pale wheat malt, 6% carafoam, 4% toffee, 4% flaked wheat, 4% dextrose (10mins)
> 10 IBU Columbus FWH, 15 IBU Columbus 10min, 15 IBU Columbus hopstand starting at 74C for 20 min
> OG was 1.066, 1.5L starter of WLP067, soft crashed at 1.015, harvested yeast, then
> 1st DH at Day 6 with 20g Columbus, 30g Citra, 50g Mosaic
> 2nd DH at Day 8 with 20g Columbus, 30g Mosaic, 60g Citra
> Cold crashed day 9 for 2 days
> 
> No 2nd day hops, still super hazy



Hey why no dry hop during high krausen ferment for biotransformation process of hops which is one of the methods for this style? 

Also, water , what did you do with it?


----------



## hoppy2B

devoutharpist said:


> Heads up any other SA brewers. Just saw that ibrewSA have some of the elusive honey malt in stock.



Thanks for the heads up. They have a good price on some pils malt too, and they home deliver for free around Adelaide and the S.E. Freeway up to Mt. Barker, which is awesome.


----------



## devoutharpist

hoppy2B said:


> Thanks for the heads up. They have a good price on some pils malt too, and they home deliver for free around Adelaide and the S.E. Freeway up to Mt. Barker, which is awesome.



I've been using Beerbelly since Brew Adelaide slowed down operations, definitely keen to give ibrew a go for my grains next as they look pretty well priced.

Haven't been able to brew for the last month or so, but planning to do an ESB or similar next with the main goal to harvest some Conan or similar for future NEIPA batches.


----------



## Schikitar

Hey guys, so my NEIPA has turned out really bitter (drinkable but still confronting) which is disappointing. It's got good colour and body although it's not as pillow-y as I was hoping for and it's also not as fruity/tropical as I wanted. It had Azacca, Mosaic and Idaho 7 in equal amounts (around 7g/L @ WP and DH1, 4g/L @ DH2) with a touch of Galaxy as well at half the amounts. I'm thinking about brewing a second batch with the same malt bill but not adding any bittering hops and just want to focus on getting fruitiness in there - then blending them. To get an idea of what that might turn out like I thought I'd buy like maybe a S&W Pacific Ale and blend that in a glass to to see what it does.. not sure, I really don't want to waste this brew but I need it to be better so I'm not drinking it all myself and can happily share it with others.


----------



## goatchop41

Schikitar said:


> Hey guys, so my NEIPA has turned out really bitter (drinkable but still confronting) which is disappointing. It's got good colour and body although it's not as pillow-y as I was hoping for and it's also not as fruity/tropical as I wanted. It had Azacca, Mosaic and Idaho 7 in equal amounts (around 7g/L @ WP and DH1, 4g/L @ DH2) with a touch of Galaxy as well at half the amounts. I'm thinking about brewing a second batch with the same malt bill but not adding any bittering hops and just want to focus on getting fruitiness in there - then blending them. To get an idea of what that might turn out like I thought I'd buy like maybe a S&W Pacific Ale and blend that in a glass to to see what it does.. not sure, I really don't want to waste this brew but I need it to be better so I'm not drinking it all myself and can happily share it with others.



You could always throw a little CaCl in a glass with it (and then in the keg if it works for you) to help with the mouthfeel. I haven't done it myself, but have heard of people doing it.

I would personally either halve or get rid of the FWH altogether and move the IBUs to a late/whirlpool addition. I aim for 8-10g/L of hops throughout the whole process (combo of flameout, cube hops and dry hop) when I make my NE pale ales (and could certainly go higher if I really wanted a punchy hop character), so for 6%+ I'd be pushing up towards 15-20g/L


----------



## Schikitar

goatchop41 said:


> You could always throw a little CaCl in a glass with it (and then in the keg if it works for you) to help with the mouthfeel.


I think I'll try and deal with the CaCl a little better in the blend batch (the original I was at 2:1 ratio), I just don't want to expose the current brew to O2 if I can avoid it. I will give it a go in a glass, just got to do some math to work out the amount relative to the glass.



goatchop41 said:


> I would personally either halve or get rid of the FWH altogether and move the IBUs to a late/whirlpool addition.


Yep, I think the FWH is what stuffed it, I won't do that again for this style..

..


----------



## Dan Pratt

Schikitar said:


> Yep, I think the FWH is what stuffed it, I won't do that again for this style..
> 
> ..



Ive done FWH on many a NEIPA and that has not been of any issue for me so doubting its the cause. 

Wondering how old the Azzaca hops are?


----------



## damohb

Dan Pratt said:


> Hey why no dry hop during high krausen ferment for biotransformation process of hops which is one of the methods for this style?
> 
> Also, water , what did you do with it?



Mainly because I wanted to harvest the yeast before dry hopping. Even with the soft crash there was probably still enough yeast left behind for some biotransformation of sorts, there was certainly some refermentation even after the 2nd DH

Water profile was roughly 65 Ca, 10 Mg, 50 Na, 150 Cl, 85 SO4 and mash pH of 5.3


----------



## Ferg

Schikitar said:


> I think I'll try and deal with the CaCl a little better in the blend batch (the original I was at 2:1 ratio), I just don't want to expose the current brew to O2 if I can avoid it. I will give it a go in a glass, just got to do some math to work out the amount relative to the glass.
> 
> 
> Yep, I think the FWH is what stuffed it, I won't do that again for this style..
> 
> ..



I've found my NEIPA beers benefit from a decent cold crash / conditioning. Early on they can taste real bitter (hop burn) as you are literally drinking hops! Give it a while to see if it calms down.


----------



## goatchop41

Schikitar said:


> Yep, I think the FWH is what stuffed it, I won't do that again for this style....



If it's not just bitterness from hop burn, then you could experiment with a batch that has no early hops, then another with about half of the early IBUs that you had this time (so ~10 IBUs from FWH)


----------



## fdsaasdf

For NEIPAs my only hop additions are at whirlpool and yeast pitch, to avoid over-bittering and oxidisation.


----------



## Schikitar

Dan Pratt said:


> Ive done FWH on many a NEIPA and that has not been of any issue for me so doubting its the cause.
> 
> Wondering how old the Azzaca hops are?



Well the issue is I think I over did it slightly, I used 50g of Ahtanum for FWH and in thinking back, after the boil/whirlpool I took a sample and it tasted about where I would want an approachable IPA. It wasn't until after the first dry hop that my head was getting blown off and I attributed that all the hop particulates in suspension. All the hops were from 2017 crops which I bought back in June (so not as fresh as I'd normally like I suppose).



Ferg said:


> I've found my NEIPA beers benefit from a decent cold crash / conditioning. Early on they can taste real bitter (hop burn) as you are literally drinking hops! Give it a while to see if it calms down.


I crash chilled for about a week at 0.5 degrees before transferring to the keg. It definitely helped but it's still just a little too much for the style I think, not undrinkable just a little extra hence why I want to dilute the bitterness with something far less punchy but yet fruity..

I think all up this was my first crack and rather than following a tried and tested recipe I went rogue (a bad habit of mine). I kinda got to stick with this now so thinking I might brew again using the same malt bill and then maybe single hop it with maybe El Dorado..??


----------



## Dan Pratt

Making a NEIPA this weekend for the AFL GF day 

OG 1060
FG 1010
ABV 6.5%
IBU 31
EBC 7
18L Vol in FV

Water 2:1 Chloride to Sulfate, pH approx 5.4 - Mashed at 64c/30min, 68c/30mins, 78c/15mins

60% Weyermann Pilsner
20% Floor Malted Wheat
20% Aldi Oats

60min Boil
@ 30mins - Magnum = 20ibu
@ WP 56g Galaxy = 5ibu 
@ WP 56g Nelson Sav = 5ibu

Chill to 22c with IC and ferment with Lallemand New England IPA Yeast @ 21c

Dry Hop 1 @ High Krausen ( Bio-transformation ) = 84g Galaxy / Nelson Sav
Dry Hop 2 @ Post Ferment = 84g Galaxy / Nelson Sav


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## goatchop41

Dan Pratt said:


> Chill to 22c with IC and ferment with Lallemand New England IPA Yeast @ 21c



I am yet to hear anything remotely good about this yeast, at least in terms of making a NEIPA, comparative to liquid yeasts. I've even heard of people preferring S04 to it.


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## Dan Pratt

goatchop41 said:


> I am yet to hear anything remotely good about this yeast, at least in terms of making a NEIPA, comparative to liquid yeasts. I've even heard of people preferring S04 to it.



I bought 2 packets and was not overly impressed by its outcome, found BRY97 does better. However that was at 19c, so this one will be at 21c and see if I get some of the fermentation esters coming through and will report back. 

looking at the danstar site its shows BRY97 higher % than this strain, go figure

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...bestpractices-Biotransformation-digital-1.pdf


----------



## koshari

philrob said:


> I prefer to drink beer, rather than hop juice.
> 
> I have tasted a whole range of these at my brewclub, and can't for the life of me see the attraction in them. For me, they are totally unbalanced.


each to their own, i love hoppiness, but then again i drink red whine with chicken and fish.


----------



## Schikitar

So I bought a Balter XPA last night and 50/50 it with my bitter NEIPA in a big glass - much better, the wife said "oh yeah, I can drink that now" which is effectively a go-ahead for me to brew what I'm calling "The Fixxxer" for blending across two kegs. It will be 0 IBU's (technically, but perceived there will still be some bitterness), I'll be looking to maintain body with a tried and tested Oatmeal XPA recipe of mine whilst trying to get some more fruity/tropical flavour and aroma in there. I just need to figure out what hops and the schedule to use. I'm wary of Galaxy, the NEIPA as it stands is already leaning too far towards earthy/grassy - just wonder if anyone has any suggestions? I still have Azacca, Idaho 7 and some Mosaic on hand from the NEIPA but not sure if I should use those again or not..

Cheers!


----------



## Stressfest

Fairly new to the craft but threw together this tasty number a few months back, would definitely brew again.

20L Batch, Mashed 75 min @68, 10 Min Mashout @76
Wyeast London III, 1L Starter, OG 1.062, FG 1.019

4KG Pale 2 Row 
600g Oats
500g Wheat
150g Crystal 60L

25g Citra Boil 10 Min
25g Galaxy Boil 10 Min

37g Citra Whirlpool 90C for 15 Mins
37g Galaxy Whirlpool 90C for 15 Mins
37g Mosaic Whirlpool 90C for 15 Mins

37g Galaxy Dry Hop 7 Days
25g Citra Dry Hop 7 Days
25g Mosaic Dry Hop 7 Days

37g Galaxy Dry Hop 3 Days
31g Citra Dry Hop 3 Days
25g Mosaic Dry Hop 3 Days

Batch size tweaked to the quantity of hops I had on hand, more or less. Beer turned out great \o/


----------



## Binetti

I have been working with this water profile for NEIPAs recently, which I derived from Brew n Grow of Minnesota.
NEIPA CA 62 Mg 2 Na 8 CL 99 SO4 13 Cl/SO4 7.62 (yes, it's crazy malty)
Obviously, it depends on your starting water but for my unfiltered tap, it's not disappointing.
Key difference from a West Coast IPA would be very low SO4, meaning the malt comes through and any hops are low on bitterness (even if you add some for bittering).

Regarding Dry Hopping, there is some debate about the biotransformation approach, with some people saying the ongoing fermentation & CO2 can scrub out the hop aromas.
In any case, I would definitely go with a 2-stage dry hop.


----------



## goatchop41

Binetti said:


> I have been working with this water profile for NEIPAs recently, which I derived from Brew n Grow of Minnesota.
> NEIPA CA 62 Mg 2 Na 8 CL 99 SO4 13 Cl/SO4 7.62 (yes, it's crazy malty)
> Obviously, it depends on your starting water but for my unfiltered tap, it's not disappointing.
> Key difference from a West Coast IPA would be very low SO4, meaning the malt comes through and any hops are low on bitterness (even if you add some for bittering).



I've been pushing mine up to around 50ish for the SO4 and 200ish for the Cl. I have found that this gives the hops a little bit of an accentuation, without bringing out too much bitterness, whilst still giving the big, soft mouthfeel that I'm after.



Binetti said:


> Regarding Dry Hopping, there is some debate about the biotransformation approach, with some people saying the ongoing fermentation & CO2 can scrub out the hop aromas.
> In any case, I would definitely go with a 2-stage dry hop.



Again, just personal experience here, but I wouldn't worry too much. I've done a few with double dry hopping, and a few with one dry hop that is added when the yeast is pitched - I haven't been able to tell any difference (albeit in completely unblinded tasting which is always prone to some sort of bias)


----------



## devoutharpist

Finally back on the brewing bike. My ESB has another week left in the fermenter, then it's a yeast wash (1318) and time for my next brew. Just picked this up in preparation (cheers Brewman).


----------



## Schikitar

Good selection of hops there! 

This is the grain bill I recently used which gave me a really orange-juicy looking NEIPA in the glass..


72% Maris Otter
9% Toffee Malt
8% Rolled Oats
8% Wheat Malt
3% CaraMunich II

I used London Fog Ale WLP066 for the ferment, it's a beast! Weeks on and the beer is still looking and tasting great but I stuffed the hop schedule the first time round (so bitter!) and had to brew another version at 0 IBUs to blend with the first one. I think building your recipe to 20-30 IBUs max is plenty, a lot of hop particulates can stay in suspension and the perceived bitterness (hop burn) can really undo a great NEIPA if you push it too far..


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Bloody hell, put a cherry on top of that and I would swear it was a 'Snowball'


----------



## devoutharpist

Schikitar said:


> 72% Maris Otter
> 9% Toffee Malt
> 8% Rolled Oats
> 8% Wheat Malt
> 3% CaraMunich II



Damnnnn, look at that colour!

What IBUs did the first one come in at?


----------



## Schikitar

devoutharpist said:


> What IBUs did the first one come in at?


Honestly, according to the recipe I 'designed' (using that term loosely) it was supposed to be about 43 IBUs but it tasted like 143 IBUs. I nearly fell over when I had my first taste test and I will attribute it to the completely unnecessary FWH addition. I don't think this style requires any boil additions, on the second batch I didn't add any hops until whirlpool at ~66 degrees, from there I followed the same dry hop schedule. That second batch still had some bitterness just from those additions, fortunately nothing harsh and once I blended the two I reckon it puts it in the 50-60 IBU range, still a little on the high side for the style. Pretty happy with the malt profile and I pushed the calcium chloride in the water. Even though the London Fog Ale was a beast I think I'd use something cleaner that drops out next time..


----------



## fdsaasdf

Schikitar said:


> Honestly, according to the recipe I 'designed' (using that term loosely) it was supposed to be about 43 IBUs but it tasted like 143 IBUs. I nearly fell over when I had my first taste test and I will attribute it to the completely unnecessary FWH addition. I don't think this style requires any boil additions, on the second batch I didn't add any hops until whirlpool at ~66 degrees, from there I followed the same dry hop schedule. That second batch still had some bitterness just from those additions, fortunately nothing harsh and once I blended the two I reckon it puts it in the 50-60 IBU range, still a little on the high side for the style. Pretty happy with the malt profile and I pushed the calcium chloride in the water. Even though the London Fog Ale was a beast I think I'd use something cleaner that drops out next time..


Did you record which hops you used, did they particularly high co-humulone?


----------



## Schikitar

I used Azacca, Mosaic, Idaho 7 and Galaxy - I didn't really look at their co-humulone levels, I think they average out to be somewhere in the middle of the range. The only reason I haven't included my own hop schedule here is because I didn't nail that part of it, I would happily encourage anyone to try the malt bill but formulate your own hop schedules and come back to us!


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## devoutharpist

Harvesting appears to be a success... pending any accidental infection surprises. Gonna try and see if i can spin up a starter before Sunday, pray to the flocculant gods. If all goes to plan, then hopefully i can brew up my next NEIPA.

Edit: I definitely need to work on my washing though... waited too long to pour it off. Such inconsistent slurry volumes.


----------



## Truman42

My first NEIPA with Kveiking turned out really good. I was very happy with it.


----------



## devoutharpist

That one looks great too, how did you find the Kveik?

Guess i'll post the recipe i'm doing next:

Target OG: 1.065
Target FG: 1.018 (but i assume it'll hit a few points lower)
24.6L batch size, expecting some heavy losses along the way due to the large amount of hops. Hoping to get 19L into the keg and then adjust for future batches.

76% Pale malt
14.6% Wheat malt
6.8% Rolled oats
2.7% Rice hulls for insurance

20g Warrior @ 60min for some bitterness

Whirlpool with 56g each of Citra, Simcoe and Idaho 7
One dry hop at "high krausen" of the same, 56g of each

Using the harvested 1318. Water roughly 62 Calcium, 137 Chloride, 82 Sulphate.

Only doing the one dry hop in an attempt to limit oxygen, then once it's done a cold crash under pressure and closed transfer to keg. Hoping i can get it into the keg within 14 days.


----------



## Truman42

devoutharpist said:


> That one looks great too, how did you find the Kveik?
> 
> Guess i'll post the recipe i'm doing next:
> 
> Target OG: 1.065
> Target FG: 1.018 (but i assume it'll hit a few points lower)
> 24.6L batch size, expecting some heavy losses along the way due to the large amount of hops. Hoping to get 19L into the keg and then adjust for future batches.
> 
> 76% Pale malt
> 14.6% Wheat malt
> 6.8% Rolled oats
> 2.7% Rice hulls for insurance
> 
> 20g Warrior @ 60min for some bitterness
> 
> Whirlpool with 56g each of Citra, Simcoe and Idaho 7
> One dry hop at "high krausen" of the same, 56g of each
> 
> Using the harvested 1318. Water roughly 62 Calcium, 137 Chloride, 82 Sulphate.
> 
> Only doing the one dry hop in an attempt to limit oxygen, then once it's done a cold crash under pressure and closed transfer to keg. Hoping i can get it into the keg within 14 days.



Well I fermented at 33C and had no off flavours etc. Had a nice tropical fruit flavour to the finished beer. My son said "Too fruity for me.."


----------



## Schikitar

There are some interesting nuggets in this Beersmith podcast with IPA king Mitch Steele, might be of interest to some of you..


----------



## devoutharpist

devoutharpist said:


> Guess i'll post the recipe i'm doing next:
> 
> 76% Pale malt
> 14.6% Wheat malt
> 6.8% Rolled oats
> 2.7% Rice hulls for insurance



This one went into the fermenter last night, checked this morning (10 hours later) and we have activity. Undershot my volume and my gravity and had some poor mash efficiency, but hopefully i should still get close to what i was after. For some reason the Guten had a lot of issues keeping mash temp and kept overshooting by a couple of C which i haven't had before, despite running at only 800w. 

Now to watch until i can conclude we are at high krausen and it is time for the big dry hop.

What sort of timeframe are people turning these around in? I see a lot of stuff on other forums about people going grain to glass in under 14 days? Assumedly because they can and also to maximise the hop characters before they begin to fade.


----------



## goatchop41

devoutharpist said:


> What sort of timeframe are people turning these around in? I see a lot of stuff on other forums about people going grain to glass in under 14 days? Assumedly because they can and also to maximise the hop characters before they begin to fade.



Mine are usually about a week...
Dry hop #1 when I pitch the yeast, then usually hit FG by day 4. Add 2nd dry hop somewhere from day 3-5 (depends on how busy I am) then cold crash from day 4-5 and keg at ~day 7


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## devoutharpist

damn thats real quick. has that timeline ever given you any issues with hop creep/diacetyl?


----------



## fdsaasdf

devoutharpist said:


> This one went into the fermenter last night, checked this morning (10 hours later) and we have activity. Undershot my volume and my gravity and had some poor mash efficiency, but hopefully i should still get close to what i was after. For some reason the Guten had a lot of issues keeping mash temp and kept overshooting by a couple of C which i haven't had before, despite running at only 800w.
> 
> Now to watch until i can conclude we are at high krausen and it is time for the big dry hop.
> 
> What sort of timeframe are people turning these around in? I see a lot of stuff on other forums about people going grain to glass in under 14 days? Assumedly because they can and also to maximise the hop characters before they begin to fade.


US-05 (out of convenience, still hazy enough but not the juciest), Vermont ale, Burlington Ale and London Fog I've not had a NEIPA spend more than 10 days between yeast pitch and kegging to serve. 

I always dry hop with yeast pitch, and if I dry hop again it's within 48hrs but I'm often not home during the week to do this. Usually at FG by day 4, after 2 days at FG I'll drop the temp for 1-2 days and keg (CO2 purged) with a slow carb - I don't shake the keg while force carbing hop-forward beers in an effort to avoid scrubbing hop aroma.


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## Schikitar

devoutharpist said:


> damn thats real quick. has that timeline ever given you any issues with hop creep/diacetyl?



I wouldn't be avoiding that diacetyl rest personally but hey, if it's working without complaints then you're golden (pun intended). 

I have a minimum 10 day turn around on all my brews; 4 day ferment (19c), 2 day diacetyl rest (22c), 2 day dry hop (14c), 2 day cold crash (~0c).. sometimes I lengthen the dry hop or cold crash depending on the timing or what's going on with the brew..


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## goatchop41

Schikitar said:


> I wouldn't be avoiding that diacetyl rest personally but hey, if it's working without complaints then you're golden (pun intended).
> 
> I have a minimum 10 day turn around on all my brews; 4 day ferment (19c), 2 day diacetyl rest (22c), 2 day dry hop (14c), 2 day cold crash (~0c).. sometimes I lengthen the dry hop or cold crash depending on the timing or what's going on with the brew..



It's an ale, being fermented at ale temps. Therefore the entirety of the later stages of fermentation is essentially your diacetyl rest, isn't it?


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## devoutharpist

I guess my issue is i have been burnt by diacetyl before so now i am hyper paranoid... but that was due to loss of temperature control during the ferment.


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## goatchop41

devoutharpist said:


> I guess my issue is i have been burnt by diacetyl before so now i am hyper paranoid... but that was due to loss of temperature control during the ferment.



So that's not really any reason to be paranoid then, is it? If you know that it was to do with temp control, then that should have no bearing on your procedure with dry hopping, ferment time, etc.


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## Schikitar

goatchop41 said:


> Therefore the entirety of the later stages of fermentation is essentially your diacetyl rest, isn't it?


Smarter people than me can answer that but I think it's pretty standard to give the yeast a couple days after reaching FG at a slightly higher temp to allow them to clean up after themselves.. that said, if you're not having any problems then I'm not going to tell you to do anything different, it's just something I do just as insurance, not fussed about a couple extra days..


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## goatchop41

Schikitar said:


> Smarter people than me can answer that but I think it's pretty standard to give the yeast a couple days after reaching FG at a slightly higher temp to allow them to clean up after themselves.. that said, if you're not having any problems then I'm not going to tell you to do anything different, it's just something I do just as insurance, not fussed about a couple extra days..



It is standard to do that in homebrewing, but that's because a lot of homebrewers treat their yeast sub-optimally.
Pitching the correct amount of cells, having plenty of nutrients and ramping the temperature in the later stages of fermentation should keep the yeast very happy, meaning that not only do you get minimal amounts of VDKs, but you also don't need to give extra time for them to be cleaned up (I believe that the clean up will just happen during the end stages of fermentation with healthy, happy yeast)


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## devoutharpist

So, just poured a pint from my latest batch (simcoe, idaho 7, citra). Gotta say i am pretty happy with it, probably one of the best beers i have made. Cheers to everyone who has contributed to the thread so far. If only i could find lighting that did the beer justice....


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## Schikitar

devoutharpist said:


> So, just poured a pint from my latest batch


Lookin' good dude, makes me thirsty! 

My NEIPA has almost left the keg :'( time to get my brew hat on again  going to base it off my NEIPA recipe but scale and tweak into a NZ-hopped Hazy Pale..

Brew Name: Hazy Hort Pale
Batch Size: 25 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 29 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.040
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
Original Gravity: 1.047
Final Gravity: 1.009
ABV (standard): 4.95%
IBU (tinseth): 22.93 (it'll be more than this in reality)
SRM (morey): 5.17
Mash pH: 5.41 (gotta tweak this a little)

FERMENTABLES:
2 kg - Maris Otter Pale (38.8%)
2 kg - Pilsner Malt (38.8%)
500 g - Toffee Malt (9.7%)
225 g - Rolled Oats (4.4%)
225 g - Wheat Malt (4.4%)
200 g - Caramalt 15L (3.9%)

HOPS:
15 g - Hort 4337, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 9.96
10 g - Hort 4337, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 4.41
15 g - Hort 4337, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4
15 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.55
75 g - Hort 4337, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 76 °C
45 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Whirlpool for 45 min at 76 °C
55 g - Hort 4337, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 8 days
35 g - Hort 4337, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
40 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 66 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 29 L, Mashin @ 69
2) Infusion, Temp: 78 C, Time: 10 min, Amount: 27 L, Mashout

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
12 g - Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
1 each - Whirlfloc, Time: 10 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Boil
4 g - Yeast Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

YEAST:
White Labs - London Fog Ale Yeast WLP066 (was going to go with S-04 but still have a couple jars of this leftover from the NEIPA's)


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## Goose

Truman42 said:


> My first NEIPA with Kveiking turned out really good. I was very happy with it.
> 
> View attachment 116798



Yo Truman, have you posted the recipe for this , if not , like to see it.

My attempt with Kveik so far have yielded a beer way more bitter than I was expecting and I attribute that to how aggressive this strain is as it just seemed to chew through the malt character leaving only the hops behind.


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## devoutharpist

Back on the hazy horse this weekend. Just finished re-brewing my last recipe but i upped the oats and wheat to 15% of each, as well as a touch of honey malt.

Surprisingly easy mash with all the sticky adjunct grains. My only concern is the hops may have smelt a little oniony amoungst all the tropical scents. But we shall see


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## Schikitar

I get onion from a number of hops, I think some people are a lot more sensitive to it than I am, which sucks for me. What do you think of honey malt?


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## kings79

Hey Guys I'm new here. Enjoying this thread!

On the Onion tip >>> Massive Beer Reviews

Interested to hear what devoutharpist did different on his brew?


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## devoutharpist

Sorry mates, kegged this about a week ago, i'll get some pics next time i pour one. 

I think with the increased oats and wheat this time, i probably needed a bit more of the honey malt. Didn't get any onion coming through in the finished product so that was a definite plus.

Overall very drinkable, might dial the bitterness back a touch next time. Also at a bit of a loss of how to make it real "thick" looking as opposed to just hazy. Might need to play around with my dryhopping, i only do one giant charge early on during fermentation at the risk of introducing oxygen later on.


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## kings79

I've just finished ready "The New IPA" by Scott Janish. I would recommend this 100%!

Alot of the discussions in this thread are answered in it.


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## Schikitar

devoutharpist said:


> Also at a bit of a loss of how to make it real "thick" looking as opposed to just hazy.



This is the result I get with London Fog Ale..
View media item 11043


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## Schikitar

kings79 said:


> On the Onion tip >>> Massive Beer Reviews



Your link is a bit broken, fixed it for you here..


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## kings79

Schikitar said:


> Your link is a bit broken, fixed it for you here..



Weird......

You should all read The New IPA.


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## ruscodenio

G'day fellas, putting a grain bill together for a NEIPA I want to brew, looking for some thoughts on it. 

4.5kg Marris Otter
1kg Wheat
600g Flaked Barley
600g Flaked Oats
150g Melanoidin


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## Schikitar

ruscodenio said:


> looking for some thoughts on it.


Can you share a little more info, eg. batch size, colour etc.,


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## yankinoz

ruscodenio said:


> G'day fellas, putting a grain bill together for a NEIPA I want to brew, looking for some thoughts on it.
> 
> 4.5kg Marris Otter
> 1kg Wheat
> 600g Flaked Barley
> 600g Flaked Oats
> 150g Melanoidin



What's the point of the flaked barley? What do you mean by wheat?


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## ruscodenio

The batch size will be 23l. Hoping to get a deep yellow / orange colour. Going to ferment it with Safale


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## ruscodenio

Schikitar said:


> Can you share a little more info, eg. batch size, colour etc.,





yankinoz said:


> What's the point of the flaked barley? What do you mean by wheat?




The batch size will be 23l. Hoping to get a deep yellow / orange colour. Going to ferment it with Safale S-33 yeast. The wheat is just a white wheat malt by Castle. I cant get flaked wheat a my LHBS, I've read that if you go 50/50 with flaked barely and oats it can be a substitute. Also using flaked barely to help with a creamy mouthfeel. The hop schedule is;

10g Columbus first wort
10g El Dorado/ Galaxy / Ekuanot 40min hopstand
20g El Dorado / Galaxy / Ekuanot 20min hopstand
35g El Dorado / Galaxy / Ekuanot dry hop day 2 and 5

should come out at 6.6% if I hit my numbers and 36IBU


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## Schikitar

ruscodenio said:


> Hoping to get a deep yellow / orange colour.


Your recipe software should give you a number for the colour but for that batch size you should be sitting around 11-12 EBC (depending on the brand of the malts) which should be good!



ruscodenio said:


> The hop schedule is;
> 10g Columbus first wort
> 10g El Dorado/ Galaxy / Ekuanot 40min hopstand
> 20g El Dorado / Galaxy / Ekuanot 20min hopstand
> 35g El Dorado / Galaxy / Ekuanot dry hop day 2 and 5


I'd suggest you double the whirlpool/hopstand additions but your target IBU's sound about right (the perceived bitterness will be higher). I split my two dry hops about 30/70 but you can certainly go 50/50.



ruscodenio said:


> Going to ferment it with Safale S-33 yeast.


Not convinced about the S-33 yeast, I'd personally be going for something else, have a read here - https://homebrewanswers.com/yeast-for-brewing-neipa/ - but if you like the results you've been getting with S-33 then go for it!

No hard and fast rules here, just some feedback, take it or leave it - most important thing is to let us know how you get on!


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## ruscodenio

Schikitar said:


> Your recipe software should give you a number for the colour but for that batch size you should be sitting around 11-12 EBC (depending on the brand of the malts) which should be good!
> 
> 
> I'd suggest you double the whirlpool/hopstand additions but your target IBU's sound about right (the perceived bitterness will be higher). I split my two dry hops about 30/70 but you can certainly go 50/50.
> 
> 
> Not convinced about the S-33 yeast, I'd personally be going for something else, have a read here - https://homebrewanswers.com/yeast-for-brewing-neipa/ - but if you like the results you've been getting with S-33 then go for it!
> 
> No hard and fast rules here, just some feedback, take it or leave it - most important thing is to let us know how you get on!




WIll do, hopefully ill get a chance to put the brew down soon enough and let you know how it goes


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## goatchop41

Just as a way to reiterate something that I stated as one of my personal opinions on NEIPAs - being that heaps of adjuncts aren't needed in the grain bill, just a flavourful base malt, some oats and then maybe a bit of wheat or Vienna if you really want.
Case in point, here's the general recipe for GP's FRESH March version. Anyone who has had a beer from the FRESH series will know that they are great hazies/NEIPAs


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## Schikitar

Yeah, have to agree! I did a hazy pale with very little adjuncts but the London Fog (and a light biotransformation dry hop) kept it ridiculously juicy from start to the end of the keg, was a great beer, just wasn't a big fan of the Hort 4337 that I used in it.


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