# Tips for improving a wheat beer



## thisispants (25/8/15)

Hi, so I'm going to attempt my first wheat beer, a Hefeweizens to be precise.

It's a basic recipe, as it seems there's not as much room for experimenting if you want to make it to style.

Here's my recipe......

*Holy Moly Hefeweizens * (Weizen/Weissbier)
Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (°P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 4.91 %
Colour (SRM): 3.5 (EBC): 6.9
Bitterness (IBU): 14.0 (Average)
50% Pilsner
50% Wheat Malt
0.9 g/L Hallertau Tradition (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
Fermented at 20°C with Safbrew WB-06

Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*

Give me some tips! Please!


----------



## manticle (25/8/15)

You chasing clove? Banana? Any commercial favourites you want to emulate?


----------



## manticle (25/8/15)

Switch yeast to one of the liquids. There are a few - 3068 from wyeast, I can vouch for.


----------



## thisispants (25/8/15)

Liquid yeast? cool, I've been meaning to try one for ages.

Do I have to make a starter for the white labs yeast? For a 14 litre brew it seems I can just tip it in with wyeast.

I have very little experience with wheat beers, however I drank a lot of it in Germany and enjoyed it....I guess I just want a fairly typical german wheat beer.


----------



## slcmorro (25/8/15)

Just use a fresh Wyeast or Whitelabs pack will be fine. I tend to underpitch my wheats anyway, because stressed wheat yeast throws out awesome flavours (note - this doesn't work for 99% of other styles). If you want banana, ferment at 22-23c. If you want clove, ferment at 18-20c. If you want both, sit her at 21c and you'll be laughing. The yeast will grow like mad at any of those temps too, so I wouldn't stress about infection from lag time. Be prepared for a massive krausen!

I love me a good, fresh wheat beer.


----------



## manticle (25/8/15)

Grist and hops looks spot on by the way. Yeast makes it, decoction helps.


----------



## thisispants (25/8/15)

I'm doing a bit more research now, has anyone had good results from a single infusion mash?

I'm reading a lot of posts saying wheat beer benefits from a lower mash temp for 15-20 minutes before bringing the temp up....but will it be really terrible if I mash the whole way at about 65C?


----------



## slcmorro (25/8/15)

It wont be bad at all doing single infusion. It could just be better doing a step mash and decoction. Go for it I say. I've done single infusion mashes before on wheats and they've come out great.


----------



## warra48 (26/8/15)

I've done both single infusion and single decoction mash, and each of them will give you good beer.

A decoction just deepens the maltiness of your beer. Depends what you are chasing. I don't like doing an early step mash, as I find it encourages too much clove.

Personally, I prefer to ferment at about 17 to 18ºC for a balanced beer between clove and banana, using WY3068.

I recommend a blow off tube, you will end up with a massive kraeusen.


----------



## manticle (26/8/15)

thisispants said:


> I'm doing a bit more research now, has anyone had good results from a single infusion mash?
> 
> I'm reading a lot of posts saying wheat beer benefits from a lower mash temp for 15-20 minutes before bringing the temp up....but will it be really terrible if I mash the whole way at about 65C?


No not terrible at all. Yeast is key. Go the grist and hops you have, change the yeast (or use the wb dry) and tweak next time to preference. You can't know how to improve unless you know what you want to improve.


----------



## Matplat (26/8/15)

Funnily enough i am planning the exact same recipe for this weekend except i have got munich yeast for the occasion. How have people attached a blow off tube without having to permanently put a hole in your fermenter lid? I am doing 23l in a 30l FV in the hope that the krausen won't make it...


----------



## Dave70 (26/8/15)

You can Amreicanize this recipe with Amarillo and US05 also. Fruity refreshing deliciousnesss. Good for folk who find wheats a bit - erm - 'yeasty', or in other words, guests.


----------



## Screwtop (26/8/15)

For a big Bavarian Style Weissbier you grainbill and single infusion is fine, 16 IBU's from one 60 min addition. A single FRESH pack of 3068 and ferment at 22C for that nice banana and slight bubblegum ester.

German Beer Regions
German beer making has taken different paths in different parts of the country. Broadly speaking, beers become maltier as you travel from north to south and hoppier as you travel in the reverse direction. In addition, some styles have more than one, often regional, name. http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/styles.html

Screwy


----------



## Coodgee (26/8/15)

Screwtop said:


> For a big Bavarian Style Weissbier you grainbill and single infusion is fine, 16 IBU's from one 60 min addition. A single FRESH pack of 3068 and ferment at 22C for that nice banana and slight bubblegum ester.


how do you reckon 20 grams of simcoe dry hopped for the last 4 days of fermentation would go in this beer? seems like a nice combo of passionfruit and banana?


----------



## slcmorro (26/8/15)

It'll probably taste nice, but certainly won't be a Euro style weizen. Euro styles use nothing but noble hops like Saaz, Hallertau, Tettnang etc. What you'd end up making is a US hoppy wheat with Euro style yeast characteristics.


----------



## Adr_0 (26/8/15)

Amarillo and US05. Great, what a way to ruin what was a perfectly good wheat beer. 

Assuming you use the 3068 or something similar, anyway. 

I was going to make a couple of suggestions, but the best suggestion I have is to brew it as you have it above and enjoy the hell out of it.


----------



## warra48 (26/8/15)

Matplat said:


> How have people attached a blow off tube without having to permanently put a hole in your fermenter lid?


You need a hole to insert a grommet to hold a blowoff tube, or to insert it directly into the hole.Unfortunately, there's no other way.

I don't see it as a problem, as the only time I use my lid is for wheats. For other brews I use a couple of layers of clingwrap.


----------



## Dan Pratt (26/8/15)

Adr_0 said:


> Amarillo and US05. Great, what a way to ruin what was a perfectly good wheat beer.


no, its a great way to make a wheat beer, american style. Personally I enjoy AW ale, its an excellent beer just doesn't have the euro aroma's. Mind you the Banana and clove sure does have its pro's.


----------



## Weizguy (26/8/15)

Dave70 said:


> You can Americanise this recipe with Amarillo and US05 also. Fruity refreshing deliciousness. Good for folk who find wheats a bit - erm - 'yeasty', or in other words, guests.


Can also modify by late hopping Amarillo and keeping the German yeast, as per a Vienna Weizen recipe from BYO magazine about 10 years ago.

I have used WB-06 only a few times and it never threw enough esters for my tastes.
Real German weissbier is generally formulated with 60-70 wheat malt, fwiw.
Your mash schedule appears fine.
Good luck and report your results here. Add your recipe to the database if you're happy with it.


----------



## time01 (26/8/15)

Also interested to hear how this turns out, seems like a very easy style to brew. One the best hefeweizen I had was in Prague funnily enough, and I'd just travelled through Bavaria


----------



## slcmorro (26/8/15)

Adr_0 said:


> Amarillo and US05. Great, what a way to ruin what was a perfectly good wheat beer.


There are some cracking US Wheat beers out there. I made a purely cube hopped American Wheat with US05, Falconers and Mandarina and also dry hopped with the same. Lasted just over 2 weeks, even in this cold weather.


----------



## Adr_0 (26/8/15)

Pratty1 said:


> no, its a great way to make a wheat beer, american style. Personally I enjoy AW ale, its an excellent beer just doesn't have the euro aroma's. Mind you the Banana and clove sure does have its pro's.





slcmorro said:


> There are some cracking US Wheat beers out there. I made a purely cube hopped American Wheat with US05, Falconers and Mandarina and also dry hopped with the same. Lasted just over 2 weeks, even in this cold weather.


I know... it would be delicious, don't get me wrong. And amarillo would be fine. Just that the poor bugger had a great recipe to start with and was about to step into the wonderful world of German wheat beers and suddenly we're making an American blonde...

...when he could be enjoying something like this:



Spicy, clovey, banana, lychee, sweet bread, with a soft, slight tart, dry finish. Used Tettnang and 3638, bottled 8 days ago... but you get the drift.


----------



## Weizguy (27/8/15)

Unless American blonde style has changed, only a tiny amount of hop character is acceptable, so I'd be calling these variations American wheat.

In either case, I support your assertion that the original intent should be followed through. I plan to brew another weizen soon, and it will be SUPERB!


----------



## Dan Pratt (27/8/15)

Now I feel like making a weizen!


----------



## hwall95 (27/8/15)

Adr_0 said:


> I know... it would be delicious, don't get me wrong. And amarillo would be fine. Just that the poor bugger had a great recipe to start with and was about to step into the wonderful world of German wheat beers and suddenly we're making an American blonde...
> 
> ...when he could be enjoying something like this:
> 
> ...


How good is 3638! Such a great yeast for weizens. Lots of clove and banana and it ferments out in 2 or 3 days. Great yeast for an emergency keg filler.


----------



## Adr_0 (27/8/15)

So, thisispants, go forth and weizen up. And don't forget to dechlorinate your water...


----------



## Tex N Oz (27/8/15)

Adr_0 said:


> ...Just that the poor bugger had a great recipe to start with and was about to step into the wonderful world of German wheat beers and suddenly we're making an American blonde......


You said exactly what I was thinking.. It's like going to buy a Volkswagen and someone sells you a Chevy.
I do a simple decoction with 50/50 pils/wheat pitch 3068 and it's amazing and ready to drink in a month.
I've never worried much about fermenting temps as long as it's less than 25°C outside. Temperature will change the flavour profile but not enough to be concerned about.
Served up with a lemon slice or a dash of Sanpelligrino Limonata.......
Simply amazing stuff.


----------



## Dave70 (27/8/15)

Adr_0 said:


> I know... it would be delicious, don't get me wrong. And amarillo would be fine. Just that the poor bugger had a great recipe to start with and was about to step into the wonderful world of German wheat beers and suddenly we're making an American blonde...
> 
> ...when he could be enjoying something like this:
> 
> ...


Merican!
Who won the bloody war anyway..


----------



## Adr_0 (27/8/15)

D-day-licious...


----------



## Screwtop (27/8/15)

Coodgee said:


> how do you reckon 20 grams of simcoe dry hopped for the last 4 days of fermentation would go in this beer? seems like a nice combo of passionfruit and banana?


Then you would have a Hopfen Weisse 



slcmorro said:


> It'll probably taste nice, but certainly won't be a Euro style weizen. Euro styles use nothing but noble hops like Saaz, Hallertau, Tettnang etc. What you'd end up making is a US hoppy wheat with Euro style yeast characteristics.


Kind of!!! But you're using 3068 yes??



Adr_0 said:


> Amarillo and US05. Great, what a way to ruin what was a perfectly good wheat beer.
> 
> Assuming you use the 3068 or something similar, anyway.
> 
> I was going to make a couple of suggestions, but the best suggestion I have is to brew it as you have it above and enjoy the hell out of it.


I agree 



Les the Weizguy said:


> Can also modify by late hopping Amarillo and keeping the German yeast, as per a Vienna Weizen recipe from BYO magazine about 10 years ago.
> 
> I have used WB-06 only a few times and it never threw enough esters for my tastes.
> Real German weissbier is generally formulated with 60-70 wheat malt, fwiw.
> ...


Listen to him!!!!!!!!!!!


Screwy


----------



## Topher (27/8/15)

**** I love hefeweizen, haven't made one for months.

Wb06 is great....it is the only dry yeast i sprinkle and i pitch at 15c. Perhaps no rehydrate = more esters? (Sample size is like 4 brews so it might be in my head - but im gonna keep experimenting).

I mash lower and sometimes add a touch of munich.


----------



## thisispants (28/8/15)

Adr_0 said:


> So, thisispants, go forth and weizen up. And don't forget to dechlorinate your water...


How do I do that!?


----------



## manticle (28/8/15)

Find out if your local supply uses chlorine or chloramine.
If chlorine, heating to strike temp should be ample.
If chloraminated, heat will help but may not be enough. Sodium or potassium met in the water, carbon filtering and reverse osmosis are the other options.


----------



## Adr_0 (29/8/15)

Sodium ascorbate, calcium ascorbate or ascorbic acid are excellent options too as they work instantly and don't leave sulphites in your beer. Try and find out how much chlorine/total chlorine is in your water and decide on a neutraliser, but typically you might need anywhere from 0.4-1.5 g for 30L of water. Not sure if you have scales, but a scale accurate to 0.1g is very handy for water treatment. Should be $30-80.


----------



## Adr_0 (29/8/15)

By the way, Canberra shouldn't have too much chlorine. But like every? most? supplies in the country they will boost in a bit as the first heat of spring comes. Much more evident up here. 

Another source of chlorine that you should potentially be more worried about is bleach...


----------



## thisispants (29/8/15)

Yeah, I did a bit of a search and it seems Canberra uses chlorine, not chloramine......so I should be ok just be heating the water up to strike temp?


----------



## Screwtop (29/8/15)

Grab a Filter housing from Bunnings and a (read cheap) carbon filter about 1 or .5 micron add some hose fittings and caravan (drinking water) hose to connect from tap to filter and filter to HLT. The filter will last for years with the amount of water you filter each year to use for brewing. Store it after drying out between uses. Carbon filtering removes both chlorine and chloramines. Also you can buy Campden tablets from your local HBS to remove both. Boiling, removes chlorine but not chloramines.

Cheers,

Screwy


----------



## manticle (29/8/15)

thisispants said:


> Yeah, I did a bit of a search and it seems Canberra uses chlorine, not chloramine......so I should be ok just be heating the water up to strike temp?


That's all I've ever done. Chlorephenols are pretty revolting so you'll know about it if you need to do more than that.


----------



## manticle (29/8/15)

Boiling will remove chloramine but it may take several hours, rendering it impractical. Free chlorine starts coming out of solution above 20 deg C so heat and time. The hotter it is, the quicker it is removed- at 100 there is essentially nothing left for our purposes.


----------



## Nizmoose (8/9/15)

Adr_0 said:


> I know... it would be delicious, don't get me wrong. And amarillo would be fine. Just that the poor bugger had a great recipe to start with and was about to step into the wonderful world of German wheat beers and suddenly we're making an American blonde...
> 
> ...when he could be enjoying something like this:
> 
> ...


*crosses everything off of the 'to brew' list. Adds hefeweizen.*


----------



## Weizguy (8/9/15)

Nizmoose said:


> *crosses everything off of the 'to brew' list. Adds hefeweizen.*


That's a Boss move. Everyone take note of this turning point.

Weizenbier is the pinnacle of ale brewing, if done right, IMHO.


----------



## thisispants (9/9/15)

So is cold crashing a hefeweizen a thing?

I usually do it with my IPA's and pale ales.


----------



## Weizguy (10/9/15)

There is a recommended lagering/settling period, but I don't generally do it.
It probably helps with longer storage, in a commercial beer, where they then re-seed with lager yeast into the keg to maintain cloudiness.

Important weizen point: Any cloudiness should be due to yeast turbidity, and not starch/ wheat haze, so always remember to use brew-brite, koppafloc or whirfloc in the boil.


----------



## Dan Pratt (10/9/15)

The best part of a hefe is grain to glass within 7days, pouring wonderful aromatic and pleasant mouthfeeling beer!

Ferments fast and is fresh from the keg!!


----------



## Coodgee (10/9/15)

Pratty1 said:


> The best part of a hefe is grain to brain within 7days, pouring wonderful aromatic and pleasant mouthfeeling beer!
> 
> Ferments fast and is fresh from the keg!!


Fixed


----------



## kaiserben (10/9/15)

Seeking some thoughts from weizen aficionados here; 

More than a decade ago I used to brew nothing but K & K weizens. Did nearly 100 batches of it. Loved them. Took a long break from brewing and have come back and now doing all grain. But I've lost that love for weizens and haven't bothered to make one. Maybe I just got sick of them, but what are the chances it's because the commercial weizens we get here aren't fresh and don't taste like they should? (ie. so all I've had is stale weizens for the past 10 years and that's put me off them)


----------



## Matplat (10/9/15)

Pratty1 said:


> The best part of a hefe is grain to glass within 7days, pouring wonderful aromatic and pleasant mouthfeeling beer!
> 
> Ferments fast and is fresh from the keg!!


Really that quick??? I pitched yeast last night into my weizen and was expecting at least 3 weeks, I knew the condition fast but i didn't think they fermented especially fast.....

While I'm at it, I used munich yeast and when I opened the pack it smelt somewhat bready/cheesy in a yeasty kind of way. Is that normal? the pack was still sealed firm and hard so I assumed all was good...


----------



## yankinoz (10/9/15)

kaiserben said:


> Seeking some thoughts from weizen aficionados here;
> 
> More than a decade ago I used to brew nothing but K & K weizens. Did nearly 100 batches of it. Loved them. Took a long break from brewing and have come back and now doing all grain. But I've lost that love for weizens and haven't bothered to make one. Maybe I just got sick of them, but what are the chances it's because the commercial weizens we get here aren't fresh and don't taste like they should? (ie. so all I've had is stale weizens for the past 10 years and that's put me off them)


How do they taste now?

Hefeweizens tend to lose the banana and bubble gum flavours on storage, keaving the clove intact and more noticeable. Some imports like Paulaner can be great, but left on the shelf long even the great ones end up tasting like chai. My own hefes have declined fast. Maybe you drank them up fast back in the day.


----------



## danestead (10/9/15)

Matplat said:


> Really that quick??? I pitched yeast last night into my weizen and was expecting at least 3 weeks, I knew the condition fast but i didn't think they fermented especially fast.....
> 
> While I'm at it, I used munich yeast and when I opened the pack it smelt somewhat bready/cheesy in a yeasty kind of way. Is that normal? the pack was still sealed firm and hard so I assumed all was good...



Munich yeast? Is that a wheat or lager yeast?

The weinstephaner yeast ferments super quick, make sure you have a blow off tube!


----------



## Matplat (10/9/15)

It is the Danstar dried wheat yeast. I am rolling the dice and going without a blow off tube, although I do have about 7-8L of headspace.

On the commercial front, I have had bottles of Schofferhofer from Dan murphys which have been deliciously bananaful....


----------



## Jack of all biers (10/9/15)

Matplat said:


> It is the Danstar dried wheat yeast. I am rolling the dice and going without a blow off tube, although I do have about 7-8L of headspace.
> 
> On the commercial front, I have had bottles of Schofferhofer from Dan murphys which have been deliciously bananaful....


When I leave only 5L headspace, I always get airlock mess and sometimes 7-8L headspace will still make it out of the 30L fermenters. Blow off tube can't hurt if you're worried about a little leakage.

I think the most off putting thing about the commercial Hefeweizens is the price. At $6-$6.50 per 500ml bottle, no wonder Kaiserben went off them after buying them for 10 years at those prices  . Seriously though, Hefeweizen should be drunk at its freshest, so more than 3 months is starting to get stale. Given it is really the simplest and quickest brew to make and always turns out right if you use the right yeast and stick to a recipe similar to the OP then all will be good.

All the advice provided re type of yeast and temps are good. I have also heard that by adding the yeast at lower quantities (ie as was suggested straight from the packet without a yeast starter) it adds more of the pronouned banna flavours that weizen lovers love. I wouldn't know as I have never made a yeast starter for a weizen so can't compare.




thisispants said:


> So is cold crashing a hefeweizen a thing?
> 
> I usually do it with my IPA's and pale ales.


Not necessary or recommended for a Hefeweizen. You don't want too much of the yeast to settle out, but you could give it a try on one batch to see what the difference would be. A Krystalweizen (ie clear/filtered weizen) couldn't hurt from a cold crash though I always tend to leave my Hefeweizen in the primary for 7-10 days for a mini-conditioning period before bulk priming straight from the primary. I always find this leaves enough yeast in the bottles for the Hefe effect (the same amount of yeast in the commercial bottles).

Edit - I almost forgot. You will need to up the carbonation in the beer compared to most. The Weizen carbonation range sits somewhat high being 6.5-8.8 g/L of CO2 (3.3-4.2 CO2 volume), though Wyeast state in their info that 2.7-3.2 CO2 volume (5.3-6.4 g/L CO2) is ideal. I bottle and find that adding 7 gm/L of dextrose produces good carbonation levels for the style.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip (10/9/15)

Matplat said:


> Really that quick??? I pitched yeast last night into my weizen and was expecting at least 3 weeks, I knew the condition fast but i didn't think they fermented especially fast.....
> 
> While I'm at it, I used munich yeast and when I opened the pack it smelt somewhat bready/cheesy in a yeasty kind of way. Is that normal? the pack was still sealed firm and hard so I assumed all was good...


Don't judge your hef on that Munich yeast. I've found it really doesn't give a great hef character. Or maybe it just doesn't at the temps that other ones do. I posted a ind experiment on here (hefe three way) a while back that talks about the differences. I recommend liquids, but if you need to use dry, try WB06.


----------



## rude (11/9/15)

Dunkelweizen :icon_drool2:


----------



## Matplat (11/9/15)

Well this is what the FV looked like this morning.... top cropped the hell out of it and put the airlock back on! Smells of malty bananery deliciousness, can't freakin wait!

Dunno if I said this before but my grist was identical to the OP, although my hallertau only came in a 3%AA so I've only hit 10IBU. Mashed at 67 with 78 mashout, pitched and fermenting at 20-22ish


----------



## Weizguy (11/9/15)

So is cold crashing a hefeweizen a thing?



> Not necessary or recommended for a Hefeweizen. You don't want too much of the yeast to settle out, but you could give it a try on one batch to see what the difference would be. A Krystalweizen (ie clear/filtered weizen) couldn't hurt from a cold crash though I always tend to leave my Hefeweizen in the primary for 7-10 days for a mini-conditioning period before bulk priming straight from the primary. I always find this leaves enough yeast in the bottles for the Hefe effect (the same amount of yeast in the commercial bottles).
> 
> Edit - I almost forgot. You will need to up the carbonation in the beer compared to most. The Weizen carbonation range sits somewhat high being 6.5-8.8 g/L of CO2 (3.3-4.2 CO2 volume), though Wyeast state in their info that 2.7-3.2 CO2 volume (5.3-6.4 g/L CO2) is ideal. I bottle and find that adding 7 gm/L of dextrose produces good carbonation levels for the style.


Warner in his definitive book on the style, states that there should be a cold settling period after fermentation to allow the beer to clear. See below.



> There is a recommended lagering/settling period, but I don't generally do it.
> It probably helps with longer storage, in a commercial beer, where they then re-seed with lager yeast into the keg to maintain cloudiness.
> 
> Important weizen point: Any cloudiness should be due to yeast turbidity, and not starch/ wheat haze, so always remember to use brew-brite, koppafloc or whirfloc in the boil.


----------



## Coodgee (11/9/15)

I'm doing a hefe and a dunkel this weekend. Picked up quite a few tips from this thread so thanks guys  

for the Hefe - 47% wheat, 48% pils, 5% melanoiden.

for the Dunkel - 60% wheat, 30% munich, 5% caramunich III, 4% melanoiden, 70 grams carafa special II.

both to 10 IBU with hallertau Hersbrucker 

3068 @ 17 degrees, pitched at proper pitching rate.


----------



## Weizguy (11/9/15)

Sorry to rain upon your parade, but a hefeweizen should be a minimum of 50% wheat to be considered a (legal)German hefe.
Americans have no such strictures.

Good luck with your brews. I'm salivating here.


----------



## Coodgee (11/9/15)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Sorry to rain upon your parade, but a hefeweizen should be a minimum of 50% wheat to be considered a (legal)German hefe.
> Americans have no such strictures.
> 
> Good luck with your brews. I'm salivating here.


what can I say, I'm a law breaker


----------



## Weizguy (11/9/15)

> what can I say, I'm a law breaker


GO for it, you rebel!


----------



## Batz (11/9/15)

> Tips for improving a wheat beer


Pour it out.....pour yourself a Saison.  :lol: :super:


----------



## Jack of all biers (11/9/15)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Warner in his definitive book on the style, states that there should be a cold settling period after fermentation to allow the beer to clear.


Really, first I've heard of that one. What does he recommend for a cold settling period? Are we talking 4C for a couple of weeks or something a little milder?


----------



## butisitart (11/9/15)

meanwhile, while adjudging my latest wheat, recipe is pretty close to my last bash, and while noting above comments about yeasts, i'm wondering, ....
your recipe (and my current tasting brew) don't have late addition hops. and that were something that i thought mine could be improved by. maybe some hallertau in the last 5mins to give it a floral lift.
my current is now 7 weeks old, and while tasting good, is tasting a bit tired. (with weihenstephan yeast).
any comments here welcome


----------



## manticle (11/9/15)

Trad/historical german weizen have very minimal hop character. Bitterness low, late hop zero.
Doesn't mean you can't add any or that what you want in it won't be improved. Just depends entirely on intended, personal outcome.


----------



## Weizguy (13/9/15)

Jack of all biers said:


> Really, first I've heard of that one. What does he recommend for a cold settling period? Are we talking 4C for a couple of weeks or something a little milder?


From Warner's book:
'After the young beer reaches final gravity, it can be handled in a variety of ways. Many brewers choose to lager the beer between 5 and 28 days at cooler temperatures before it is primed and bottled.
The beer will be clearer, particularly at lower temperatures, if it is allowed to settle in an intermediary holding tank.In Germany, isinglass may be used to aid the clarification of top-fermenting beers, but only in such a conditioning tank.
It may not be used to clarify the beer once it has been packaged i.e. for used for bottle conditioning.
This settling period will also benefit the bouquet and flavour of the beer because it is still slightly active and unwanted volatile substances can be driven from it. The cooler the temperature, the better.
Best results are obtained when the temperature in the conditioning tank is between 39 and 46 degrees (4 and 8 degrees C).'

so, yep. Really!


----------



## Jack of all biers (13/9/15)

Thanks Les. I didn't think it would be appropriate for a Hefeweizen, but there you go. I'll give it a crack next time.



butisitart said:


> meanwhile, while adjudging my latest wheat, recipe is pretty close to my last bash, and while noting above comments about yeasts, i'm wondering, ....
> your recipe (and my current tasting brew) don't have late addition hops. and that were something that i thought mine could be improved by. maybe some hallertau in the last 5mins to give it a floral lift.
> my current is now 7 weeks old, and while tasting good, is tasting a bit tired. (with weihenstephan yeast).
> any comments here welcome


I do have a recipe for a Schneider Weisse ("Brew Classic European Beers at Home - Wheeler/Protz") which does call for 10gm of Hallertau at the last 15 mins of the boil.
The grain bill is 60% wheat malt, 17% Pils malt, 17% Vienna malt and 6% Caramunich. Mashing schedule 50C- 20mins, 65C- 60mins. 13 IBU's.

I've not made this one, but their recipes are always good, so give the late addition of hops a go, but maybe don't over do it. Now that, I've written about it, this is now going to be my next brew. Mmm, Weizen :chug:


----------



## Weizguy (13/9/15)

Jack of all biers said:


> Thanks Les. I didn't think it would be appropriate for a Hefeweizen, but there you go. I'll give it a crack next time.
> 
> 
> I do have a recipe for a Schneider Weisse ("Brew Classic European Beers at Home - Wheeler/Protz") which does call for 10gm of Hallertau at the last 15 mins of the boil.
> ...


I'm brewing this beer today. Great recipe and really suits W3638 yeast.
You're welcome for the info, too.


----------



## Coodgee (13/9/15)

So I got my first stuck sparge yesterday with my hefe. Had to continually stir the grain to get it to drain. I had been getting crystal clear wort going into the fermenter with the grainfather but this brew was like soup! Hope it settles. Might have to cold crash it


----------



## Matplat (13/9/15)

Bummer dude, i believe this is where rice hulls come into play! Surprised though, i did my wheat at 50:50 wheat: pilsner same as you and had no such issues. Crushed too fine?


----------



## donmateo (13/9/15)

Wheat beer is my favorite beer to brew.....I almost lost two 60L fermenters full tonight trying to lift the suckers out of the freezer... Luckily, i managed to save both of them. I probably prefer the one I pitched with a new vial than the one I repitched with my last yeast....but I really did underpitch that one so I could have underdone it a little bit there.

Wheat beer is all about the yeast....You can pretty much just forget about the recipes untill you have decided on the yeast you like, and go from there.
If you can, try to ferment with different yeasts from the same brew.

If you have problems with stuck sparging, just bite down, stir it up, recirc, and keep going. I brew in 200L stainless barrels and have no problems doing this with my trusty Jarrah pole.

And don't be afraid to try different wheat beer yeasts that people don't talk about so much...Personally, I stuck with 3068 initially for many many brews because this seemed to be the one I heard people talk about most.
I never managed to get results I was happy with out of this yeast, and use others now.....but I kind of kick myself now for trying so many brews with this particular yeast with the idea that the reason I wasn't getting results I was happy with was that I was doing something wrong in the brew.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE YEAST!


----------



## butisitart (13/9/15)

mmmmm.... back to the wheat board. my favourite commercial wheat (i haven't tried many) is konig leopold. a lovely fresh drop with a slightly fruit finish. if i could just get somewhere near that, i'll die a happy drunk.
and with all respect to the 'no late hops' school, i don't know how konig leopold brews without at least just a tad. or that's the impression it gives. and smooth as the proverbial baby's bum.

actually, i just knocked the top off a wheatie. i think it's coming good again. :blink:


----------



## time01 (14/9/15)

Loving this thread guys, has inspired myself to have a crack at my first hef. Would I be correct in thinking I shouldnt filter it when I keg it?


----------



## Matplat (14/9/15)

Don Mateo said:


> And don't be afraid to try different wheat beer yeasts that people don't talk about so much...Personally, I stuck with 3068 initially for many many brews because this seemed to be the one I heard people talk about most.
> I never managed to get results I was happy with out of this yeast, and use others now.....


So which ones do you use?


----------



## Coodgee (14/9/15)

Matplat said:


> So which ones do you use?


haha I was just thinking the same thing! my wheat is fermenting away nicely at 17 degrees. It has a normal Krausen, I installed a blow off tube but there was no need. It's no bigger than a US-05 Krausen. I pitched a 300 billion cell starter (1.5L) which was pretty much spot on what was calculated as required by Beersmith2. not a very nice aroma. not quite an egg fart smell though.

I have tasted a few wheats that have been estery in aroma but I didn't really like them that much. almost like a coopers kit yeast fermented warm kind of smell. I'm brewing this beer for an Oktoberfest party so this beer needs to be a crowd pleaser. last thing I want is a beer that tastes like a badly fermented coopers kit!


----------



## Weizguy (14/9/15)

> So I got my first stuck sparge yesterday with my hefe. Had to continually stir the grain to get it to drain. I had been getting crystal clear wort going into the fermenter with the grainfather but this brew was like soup! Hope it settles. Might have to cold crash it


Funny you mention that. I also had a sparge that ran really slow on my Schneider clone, and and I had to disturb the top layer of tieg on the grain bed to get it flowing again.
35 litre batch of Weizen. Oh, the joy!


----------



## Coodgee (14/9/15)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Funny you mention that. I also had a sparge that ran really slow on my Schneider clone, and and I had to disturb the top layer of tieg on the grain bed to get it flowing again.
> 35 litre batch of Weizen. Oh, the joy!


The recipe I was using called for a 20 minute rest at 43 degrees. I think this might have been the cause of my stuck sparge. I also didn't do a mash out step at 75 degrees like I have done previously. I wasn't just disturbing the top layer of the grain bed, I had to literally scrape the stainless steel plate on the bottom of the grainfather mash tun to get it to drain. never seen anything like it. I had no such problem with a 30% wheat grain bill I did recently so I am thinking that initial rest might have turned it to glue.


----------



## Weizguy (14/9/15)

Hmm, my rests were hydration/ ferulic acid rest 37.0 C 30 min

Protein rest (wheat beer) 50.0 C 20 min

Sacc rest 63.0 C 60 min

mash out Step 76.0 C 10 min

There was a load of grey tieg on top of my grain bed, which I assume may have been the cause of my sparge issues.
The run-off slowed right down and I chose to disturb the top cm or so of the grain bed and increase the flow rate at the same time.
One of my issues is that I am still working with a new mash tun and manifold, so still getting familiar and quick to blame it too.


----------



## Coodgee (15/9/15)

my wheat is down to 1011 already from an OG of 1048 72 hours ago. All my brews are getting to terminal gravity in 72 hours lately which is quite pleasing. I'm going to leave it at 17-18 degrees in primary until at least friday. it's got a bit of fart smell going on so I think I'll leave the yeast to clean up. The trub level is above the level of the tap at the moment so hopefully that will settle down after cold crashing. I will probably transfer to secondary if it doesn't settle and compact enough. It tastes really really nice!


----------



## Matplat (16/9/15)

Yeah, snap! Mine too, i bottled last night 5 days after pitching!


----------



## wildwhitty (22/9/15)

Coodgee said:


> The recipe I was using called for a 20 minute rest at 43 degrees. I think this might have been the cause of my stuck sparge. I also didn't do a mash out step at 75 degrees like I have done previously. I wasn't just disturbing the top layer of the grain bed, I had to literally scrape the stainless steel plate on the bottom of the grainfather mash tun to get it to drain. never seen anything like it. I had no such problem with a 30% wheat grain bill I did recently so I am thinking that initial rest might have turned it to glue.


I always add rice hulls to any recipe with grain other than barley. No stuck sparges so far.


----------



## Jack of all biers (23/9/15)

time01 said:


> Loving this thread guys, has inspired myself to have a crack at my first hef. Would I be correct in thinking I shouldnt filter it when I keg it?


No, not if you want a Hefeweizen. Hefe is german for yeast. So if you filter out the yeast you end up with a Krystalweizen. Crystal clear (pun intended) :lol:


----------



## Matplat (24/9/15)

Righto, tried my first one last night, it was pretty disappointing to say the least, none of the flavours that i could smell during fermentation have made it to the glass. It has a wheaty taste but lacks body and flavour.... this was the first brew on my my new 1v brew rig so lots of variables in the mix... but still disappointing. Could this lack of flavour be attributed to mash temp? I did a single infusion at '67' but don't have anything supremely accurate to calibrate against....


----------



## Coodgee (24/9/15)

that's a bummer dude. I had a taste of mine when it was going into secondary and it tasted exceptionally good, although there was a bit of sulfur on the nose that needs to dissipate. I have tasted a few wheats that taste thin and flavourless. The Burleigh brewing co wheat is a good example of this. Maybe you needed to use a liquid yeast. Also what grain did you use? I used weyermann wheat and pils malt and also a bit of melanoidin to emulate a decoction. I don't think it would be mash temp as 67 is on the malty side of balanced, assuming you got the mash temp correct. also don't discount psychological factors - maybe you have been drinking a lot of full flavour beers lately? Go and buy a corona and then see how yours tastes?


----------



## Matplat (24/9/15)

I think i used BB wheat and weyermann pils... i think it must be a combination of mash temp and perhaps yeast....? Dunno maybe il do an acid rest next time to promote banana... or just get my temp sensor calibrated... and buy a XXXX summer bright!


----------



## manticle (24/9/15)

Without scrolling back through the thread - what was your yeast choice?


----------



## Matplat (24/9/15)

Munich... smelt bloody good in the FV.


----------



## butisitart (26/9/15)

considering all above, have dropped a new wheat brew today -
3kg spelt
2.5kg 2 row pale organic weyermanns
weihenstephan wheat yeast
santiam hops


spelt?? my hbs has got spelt - not on beersmith's ingredient list. apparently an old wheat strain, not overly commercially viable as a crop in the modern world. i just had to play with this. and had to search around the net to find out anything about it. so pretty curious about how this is going to go. apparently spelt can be used up to 100% of grainbill.

santiam were on special and are used as a substitute for tettnang. so i thought i'd give it a whirl.

but 2 things came from this thread which i read up on, and according to the published authors -
there shouldn't be any hops flavour, so out goes my earlier theory of adding a little late hop additions
and the other is that a 90min boil is quite beneficial, and much better than 60.
the other thing noted is that wheat beer does not improve with age and should be drunk fairly fresh.

so see how this shapes up. current brew is now 9 weeks old and went through a few flavour changes. reasonable, but not fantastic. the 90min boil will be the interesting starting point on the new brew. and hopefully i'll feel all medieval after slurping some spelt, and start singing ditties about damsels and things.

if anybody has got experience on spelt malt, love to hear


----------



## Jack of all biers (27/9/15)

butisitart said:


> considering all above, have dropped a new wheat brew today -
> 3kg spelt
> 2.5kg 2 row pale organic weyermanns
> weihenstephan wheat yeast
> ...


Not a wheat beer, but Dinkelbier - closely related to Weizen, just like the grains, but more like cousins and not siblings. Your Dinkelbier will need a long maturation period as opposed to Weizen that needs little to none. I think your recipe is proportionally about right, but I'd be cautious about making a 100% Spelt grain bill. 

Below is an extract from http://www.germanbeerinstitute.com/Dinkelbier.html

Only a few Bavarian breweries still make this old-fashioned beer today.Because of its high protein content (up to 17% compared to modern wheat at about 12.5 to 14.5% and modern brewing barley at around 10.5%), dinkel is ideally suited for bread-making but less so for brewing. In additon, the grain needs to be dehusked if it is used in the brew house; otherwise the beer would taste too rough and astringent. The dinkel portion in a dinkel beer, therefore, seldom exceeds 50%. After fermentation, Dinkelbier needs to mellow out during a maturation period of several months around the freezing point. Because beer foam is mostly protein, Dinkelbier throws a very thick head when it is poured into a glass. Its alcohol content by volume tends to be about 4.5%.

EDIT - I've not been so adventurous as to try Spelt (nor does my HBS stock it) and as you said there's not much in the way of info around, but good luck and let us know the ups and downs of that particular grain.


----------



## Adr_0 (27/9/15)

Another tip for making a great wheat beer, is to not accidentally put 4% acidulated malt in when you meant to put only 2% in.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip (27/9/15)

Matplat said:


> Munich... smelt bloody good in the FV.


That's where your hefe character has gone. IME this yeast doesn't do it.


----------



## Matplat (27/9/15)

Yes, your comment was in the back of my mind as i was drinking....


----------



## butisitart (28/9/15)

thanks for the info, jack oab's. knew pretty much nothing about what you added. i might need to do a fortnightly taste on this for a while - long maturation i can do. near freezing maturation in brissy without a whole lot of fridge space will be the challenge. yeah - i wasn't brave enough to go 100%, especially if you don't do that for standard wheat. it's enjoying a big ferment, with just enough rotten egg to send the missus on a search for the smell today. wish i was here.


----------



## Jack of all biers (28/9/15)

Hey, butisitart.

Given there is so little in the way of Spelt (Dinkel) knowledge/experience/outcomes recorded on this forum, maybe add to one of the spelt threads your recipe and outcome when you get your results. It may help future searchers on the topic.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/18683-wheat-of-the-week-spelt/

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/72114-spelt/page-2

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/49393-spelt-beer/


----------



## butisitart (3/10/15)

cheers jack - will do.
a little way off yet cos fermenting into the 2nd week and will bottle next weekend. it smelt 'honey fruit nectar' sweet at the airlock when it stopped doing the egg gas thing.
i did partake of a 4mnth old wheat today. smooth as.
from the remarks above, and if wheat is meant to be drunk fresh, maybe it's peaked. got 2 bottles left of that brew, so will try at 5 and 6 months to see if there is any deterioration.


----------



## Jack of all biers (5/10/15)

Jack of all biers said:


> Hefeweizen should be drunk at its freshest, so more than 3 months is starting to get stale.


I think I may have used the wrong word in my statement above. Stale is somewhat the wrong term, but maybe 'mellowed' or 'less fresh' are better statements to reflect what I meant. 

Your Weizen at 6-7 months shouldn't be a problem, but the flavours will have mellowed out somewhat from when it was fresh. You may not even notice the difference unless you have a freshly brewed one to compare it too at the same time. I apologise for any confusion caused.


----------



## butisitart (9/10/15)

tasted the spelt off the fg hydrometer - pretty darned good - (fg @ 1.008 on a 13 day ferment so happy there)
an analogy would be spelt = a lighter (eg margaret river) shiraz v usual wheat = alsace riesling.
drier, with a slight earthy after, with modest wheat fruit.
yeast and hops identical to my previous wheat, so the taste difference is in the grain only.
after above comments re: long conditioning at near freezing, can't do the temperature, but will keep a supply to see how long they hold up.
tastes like it's worth the experiment.

jack - didn't read as 'stale' on your earlier post - took it as peaked and not likely to evolve further.


----------



## butisitart (31/10/15)

sipping my first spelt taster.
most noticeable thing is that it is completely clear - no wheat haze at all.
tastes a bit green, but shows delicate fruit (lychee??) and a touch of honey.
perhaps not as full bodied as my other wheats, but i think this will be a welcome summer's afternoon quaff by christmas.
general impression is that i'm quite impressed.
got mine at craftbrewer (no affiliation) if interested.


----------



## Matplat (30/11/15)

This probably isn't going to be news to most of you, but here goes anyway...

After my first failed wheat using munich (I ended up throwing half that batch) I repeated the exact same recipe using 3068.... I tasted my first bottle over the weekend after a mere 4 days since bottling, and guess what, despite still being a little undercarbed it tasted bloody fantastic!

I fermented at 17 as per Jamils recommendation, and it turns out a beautifully balanced weizen. Absolute winner just in time for the silly season!

I can't rule out the possible effect that a brand new brew rig may have had on my Munich attempt... may have been some contamination that stuffed it up. But now that I have 3068 I don't think I'l be risking another brew on Munich yeast.


----------



## DrJez (8/4/19)

My best tip to date (I do like to have a Weissbier on tap at most times, always loved them even before brewing and knew they were something special) would be: Never use dried yeasts. Ruined so, so many wheat's thinking my grain bill mustn't be quite right. It's all apple and always too tart. A novelty yeast at best, you simply can't take short cuts on weizen'.

Second would be, unmalted white wheat is far superior to malted


----------



## labels (8/4/19)

DrJez said:


> My best tip to date (I do like to have a Weissbier on tap at most times, always loved them even before brewing and knew they were something special) would be: Never use dried yeasts. Ruined so, so many wheat's thinking my grain bill mustn't be quite right. It's all apple and always too tart. A novelty yeast at best, you simply can't take short cuts on weizen'.
> 
> Second would be, unmalted white wheat is far superior to malted



Not really true. Mangrove Jack's M20 Bavarian Wheat is a cracker of a yeast and every bit as good as 3068 but needs to be treated a little differently. You can definitely make a great wheat beer with malted wheat and it's definitely German in style whereas unmalted wheat is more for the Belgian style wheats.

What a lot of people fail to understand is that wheat malt produces thin beer with low body while urban legend says wheat malt produces a full bodied beer. Sure, it does produce a great head but don't confuse that with body. Mash very high for more body or add oats or flaked barley, I just mash at 70C for 45mins and it ends up great.


----------



## DrJez (8/4/19)

This is why I like the unmalted wheat, it's just got so much more mouthfeel. I use malted wheat as I would sucrose in pale ales if attempting to thin the flavour out so definitely understand what you're saying there

M20 isn't WLP300/3068(?) not sure why the comparison


----------

