# Brewers Please Give Your Honest A Opinion



## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

* Lager AG 4th  * 
This brew will be my 4th a temp at AG. The other three ones just did not work out so I hope keep it simple will work 

The cost of this should be around $72.00 through BrewMate Bayswater

Grain Bill
4.300kg JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 
489gm JW WHEAT MALT 

Hop Bill
Perle Pellet 29g 60min's Boil
Perle Pellet 13g 40min's Boil
Hallertau Pellet 12g 15min's Boil
Perle Pellet 12g 15 min's Boil
Hallertau 12g Flame out

Whirlfloc 1 Talbet 15 min's boil
Wyeast 2007 - Pilsen Lager Temperature Range 9-13C
23 L Spring Water


Batch size 23.0L
OG 1.049
FG 1.011
ABV 5.0
EBC 6.3
IBU 36.3
Efficiency 76%
BU:GU Ratio 0.74
Balance Vale 1.74
AA% 78
Boil Time 60 min's


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## mxd (3/5/12)

apart from the fact it looks too expensive 

Are you a no chiller or a chiller ?

What was wrong with the previous ones ?

you may want to look at doing an acid rest in your mash or add some salts.

For your fermentation, make sure you get "the right quantity/quality" of yeast for pitching.

Look at doing a D-Rest when the Gravity is down 1.020


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## eamonnfoley (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> *Lager AG 4th *
> This brew will be my 4th a temp at AG. The other three ones just did not work out so I hope keep it simple will work.
> 
> The cost of this should be around $72.00 through BrewMate Bayswater
> ...



Recipe looks fine - but $72 for a batch?? That sounds very high, your better off buying beer at that price. Even paying for grain per kg. If your not having success, stick with a simple ale recipe with dry yeast, and only bittering hops (high alpha hops). Keep the price down until you get yourself sorted. And don't worry, a simple ale recipe will taste very nice if brewed well.

Go to Nev at Gryphon in Bassendean (Success Hill) he will sort you out.


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## bignath (3/5/12)

$72 for a single batch? Holy shit....you need to find a better source for ingredients.

I could, (as most brewers who own a mill and bulk buy etc...) could make twice that amount for around half the price...seriously.

Apart from that, how do you end up with a batch size of 23lt by using 23lt of water? Not too sure about that one :icon_cheers:


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

I hope your allowing to buy a carton of beer for brewday in that price?

My 69L batch would cost less than that for the same beer.

Since you said _"The other three ones just did not work out so I hope keep it simple will work" _I would not be doing a lager. Look up Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, or any decent ale that will help hide a lot of flaws from the brewing process. 

edit: Also there are a few brewers in your area, get someone who has a few brews under their belt around on the day, you will pick up so much with someone there and brewday will be so much smoother.


QldKev


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Yes I using a chiller. 
With the previous ones they all had a over powering biscuit taste.
I'm just reading up on PH and brewing salts 
I now have a old fridge, all I got to do is buy is a temperature controller


*On BrewMart website*
4.300kg Kg JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT	$28.75
489g JW WHEAT MALT $ 4.95
100g PERLE PELLETS HOPS $ 9.95
2x FINISHING HOPS-HALLERTAU 12g $ 7.00
WYEAST - 2007 PILSEN LAGER $14.95
23 L Spring Water $10.00


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Big Nath said:


> $72 for a single batch? Holy shit....you need to find a better source for ingredients.
> 
> I could, (as most brewers who own a mill and bulk buy etc...) could make twice that amount for around half the price...seriously.
> 
> Apart from that, how do you end up with a batch size of 23lt by using 23lt of water? Not too sure about that one :icon_cheers:


 Total water requied is 30L after boil off it should be about 23L going by the program


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## Malted (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> I now have a old fridge, all I got to do is buy is a temperature controller



Essential for making good beer. Controlling the temperature at which the beer is fermented is absolutely critical to good beer versus bad beer. 

Look around for other sources of Grain. A couple of examples from over this way: Beerbelly - Barret Burston Pilsner - $4.00/kg, Brewmaker JW Pilsner $4.20/kg. You are paying $6.68/kg.

Whole heartedly agree with Kev, stick with a simple Ale at this stage. I would NOT even consider brewing a lager without that temp controller for the fridge. You know they take a lot longer to brew at lower temps? And you have to cold lager them for a couple of months? Do you want your fridge occupied with a lager for that long when you could have had crap loads of batches of ales through in that time?


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## pimpsqueak (3/5/12)

I hope Brewmart bought you a drink before ******* you that hard.


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## mwd (3/5/12)

For that kind of money and with your previous success rate I would be inclined to get a Fresh Wort Kit from one of the site sponsors then you only need to worry about adding yeast and fermenting and also save yourself some dollars.

As others have said better off starting out simple keep away from lagers until you have everything sorted with your techniques.


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## bowie in space (3/5/12)

I just ordered 10kg of malt today from craftbrewer and it only cost $5 more than your 4.8kg. Plus, I usually pay $10 for a pack of wyeast that reculture and use in four brews. The 12g of hallertau hops for $7 seems a bit outrageous too. No need to spend money on spring water either. 

The only thing on your list that sounds like roughly the right price are the perle hops.

My double batches, which usually cost around $50, would be even cheaper if I had a mill.


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## clay (3/5/12)

don't forget that your going to need to make a starter for that Wyeast


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

pimpsqueak said:


> I hope Brewmart bought you a drink before ******* you that hard.


 :lol:


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (3/5/12)

*

On BrewMart website*
4.300kg Kg JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT	$28.75 Should be no more than $5/kg for JW - $7 saved
489g JW WHEAT MALT $ 4.95 - waaay too expensive as above - should be around $2.40 for this.
100g PERLE PELLETS HOPS $ 9.95 reasonable for a shop
2x FINISHING HOPS-HALLERTAU 12g $ 7.00 "finishing hops" are an expensive way to buy hops and are generally never fresh. For that price, you're better off buying a 100g bag and saving it for another time, or use one bag of hops (say 100g of Hallertauer) some for bittering and some for aroma and save buying the Perle.
WYEAST - 2007 PILSEN LAGER $14.95 A tad expensive
23 L Spring Water $10.00 why not use RO water and reconstruct with the appropriate chemicals? It's cheaper.

BTW - I calc your purchase as close to $76.

For the record, I don't bulk buy and my average brew is around the $25 mark for 25L.

If I'm saving money, it's because:

1. My brew shop offers a discount for 5kg or more of base grain.
2. My brew shop has good prices on any malts at any rate.
3. Most of my hops are bulk bought, and if they aren't, it's because I get the cheaper varieties for bittering from my brew shop, or jump on a special like craftbrewer's clearance of Saaz pellets for $2.90/90g bag.
4. Wet yeast is generally around $10, dry around $5.
5. I don't buy a hop specifically for bittering only. I either use leftovers of a high AA% hop (or even a low AA% hop I have on hand, if I have enough), and save all hop purchases for aroma/flavour hops. Buying 90-100g packs means that will almost always have some leftovers, seal them and put them in the freezer and use them for something else next time.

Maybe next bulk buy of grain, I'll be in.

Let us know why the other brews "failed". And find a well commented, well liked recipe on the db - use that.

Goomba


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## glenwal (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> I now have a old fridge, all I got to do is buy is a temperature controller


Just wondering how you did the last 3 lagers without a temp controlled fridge?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (3/5/12)

clay said:


> don't forget that your going to need to make a starter for that Wyeast


And check the date ? there has been quite few getting sold out of date in Perth recently which is bad for business.
Not pointing fingers but my customers do talk.
Nev


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## keifer33 (3/5/12)

Im with foles on this one. Try a simple ale even a smash (single malt / single hop) with a clean dry yeast like us05 or nottingham and control temps to be about 18c (not that hard in perth atm). Have you had other brewers taste your beer? West coast brewers meeting is coming up soon so would be a good opportunity to get some feedback.


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Glen W said:


> Just wondering how you did the last 3 lagers without a temp controlled fridge?


*First All Grain*
Grain Bill
Joe White Traditional Ale 4 kg
Joe White Wheat Malt .500 g
Maltodextrin .400 g
Dextrose .600 g
Rice Hulls .500 g

Hop Bill
SPOR 18.00g 60min's Boil
SPOR 15g 10 mins Boil
Galaxy 15g 10 min's Boil
SPOR 15 g Flame out
Galaxy 15 g Flame out
Whirlfloc 1g 15 min's boil
14 g Coopers Brewing Yeast

Fermentation 14 Days

Just a over powering biscuit taste went down the sink undrinkable 


*Second ALL Grain*
Grain Bill
Joe White Traditional Ale 4.5 kg
Joe White Munich Light Malt .500 g
Joe White Crystal Light Malt .250 g
Joe White Chocolate Malt .100 g
Rice Hulls .500 g

Hop Bill
SPOR 15g 60min's Boil
SPOR 10g 10 mins Boil

Whirlfloc 1g 15 min's boil
15g English Ale Yeast

Fermentation 14 Days

It was drinkable No bitterness taste a little biscuit taste no where near like my best Extract brew

*Third ALL Grain*
This is a 25L batch size

Grain Bill
5.673kg JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 
630g JW MUNICH LIGHT MALT 
315gm JW CRYSTAL LIGHT 
126gm JW WHEAT MALT 


Hop Bill
SPOR Flowers 35g 60min's Boil
SPOR Flowers 16g 40 min's Boil
SPOR Flowers 15g 15min's Boil
SPOR Flowers 15g 0 min's Aroma
Galaxy Pellet 15g 0 min;s Aroma 

Whirlfloc 1 Talbet 15 min's boil
15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager Yeast

The Brew day was 30/04/2012 current in my Kegerator at 15c
A taste of the wort sweet with a very small amount of biscuit taste

when the Primary fermentation is done I will rack the beer and than see how long the Secondary fermentation takes 
I will store it for about 4 weeks in the old fridge at very low temperature before I keg it


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> And check the date ? there has been quite few getting sold out of date in Perth recently which is bad for business.
> Not pointing fingers but my customers do talk.
> Nev



Now Nev has posted you even have a link to his shop,

Using Wey Pils and Wheat, the grain bill drops from your quoted $34 to $20.45

For a simple ale, just use something like BB Ale, should be cheaper again. I love the stuff, and always have a couple of bags on hand.

Then replace the hop tea bags with real hops, and you have heaps spare for next brew.

Also with the Ale you could just use a dry yeast say US-05 from Gryphon @ $4.75, look after it and reuse it for another brew too. 

Don't worry about spring water with an ale, just the local tap water will be ok, another saving.


QldKev


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## MarkT (3/5/12)

I would really like to know or see what set up you are using to AG and I agree with previous posters (although I am a newbie) the temp control fridge is a must have.

All the best
MarkT


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## petesbrew (3/5/12)

I've got a few AG's under my belt but I still consider myself a noob with regards to recipe building.

What beer styles were you trying to make with the previous ones? (even a loose ballpark guess?)
What is SPOR? something Pride of ringwood?
Probably try copying some in the recipe database, Like Ross' Summer Ale, Dr Smurto's Golden, etc.

Get a hold of the Brewing Classic Styles. Most of mine are based on these recipes.

Start buying your base grain by the sack (shop around for a better price too!) and as stated buy hops in bulk (store em in the freezer for future brews).
Buy a kilo of spec malt instead of half... save the rest for future brews.
Culture your yeast.... save for future brews.

Use Tapwater. there's $10 saved.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (3/5/12)

Looking at those grain bills - I can see anything that would contribute a particularly biscuity taste to it.

Can you describe it further?

Goomba


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## Mayor of Mildura (3/5/12)

Whats the FG of the beers that you haven't liked? How are you mashing? Sounds to me maybe that they are a little out of balance.


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> Now Nev has posted you even have a link to his shop,
> 
> Don't worry about spring water with an ale, just the local tap water will be ok, another saving.
> 
> ...


 obviously you have not tasted water in Ashfield W.A, even a water purifier can not get rid of taste, it's very bad.
So my wife and I buy bottle water for cooking, tea/coffee. During the winter I use rain water.


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

MarkT said:


> I would really like to know or see what set up you are using to AG and I agree with previous posters (although I am a newbie) the temp control fridge is a must have.
> 
> All the best
> MarkT


I will upload the pic's shorty


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## petesbrew (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> obviously you have not tasted water in Ashfield W.A, even a water purifier can not get rid of taste, it's very bad.
> So my wife and I buy bottle water for cooking, tea/coffee. During the winter I use rain water.


LOL Fair enough. :icon_cheers:
All the best dude.


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> obviously you have not tasted water in Ashfield W.A, even a water purifier can not get rid of taste, it's very bad.
> So my wife and I buy bottle water for cooking, tea/coffee. During the winter I use rain water.



No, not in the last 10 years since we moved from WA I have not. But I though there are other brewers in the area who use it. I'd be wanting to know whats in it if the water filter can't sort it out.


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## MarkT (3/5/12)

Awesome  
I am just up the road from you on Lord Street and I brew with the local water I will have to give you some of my water to try! maybe I can test your beer and you can test some of mine but I am a real ale lover tho wheat beer is a frav too and I haven't tried brewing any larger or pilsners yet.

All the best
MarkT



georgecopley said:


> I will upload the pic's shorty


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## hsb (3/5/12)

I would honestly, as others have said, stick to ales until you're getting good results. Lagers are far harder to perfect.
Get your temp control sorted, use a decent yeast and make an APA of some kind.
Pale Malt - 75%, Munich I - 10%, Crystal (or similar) - 5% then pile in the hops.

Yeast is where the magic happens, treat it well and leave the biscuit taste for elevenses.


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## mckenry (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> *First All Grain*
> Grain Bill
> Joe White Traditional Ale 4 kg
> Joe White Wheat Malt .500 g
> ...



I believe those super POR should never be used late. I have a fair dislike of POR - plenty here love it - but you might be like me.
I reckon your lager just might work (temp control factors tho) and you'll think its the type of beer.
I reckon you should give one of those first couple another shot, without SPOR late in the boil. Its a bittering hop and for good reason IMO.
Bitter with your SPOR and only galaxy late. Should be nice.
mckenry


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## manticle (3/5/12)

My honest opinion is that you need to spend more time learning about recipe development and what ingredients and processes bring to the finished product.

As others have suggested, keep it simple - either by brewing something simple or by using a tried and true recipe.

What commercial beers do you like?
What was your best kit, extract or partial (if you made them)?

Simple grain bill, single infusion, neutral ale yeast and single hop addition and see how you go.

Some WA water is quite hard and may need adjustment but spring water mineral profile might be all over the place too. Are there any AG brewers near you who can advise on how they treat their water while you get your head around the whys and wherefores?


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## thylacine (3/5/12)

Re- "Boil time 60 minutes"

Many brewers advocate 90 minute boils when using pilsner malts. eg DMS

Cheers


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

MarkT said:


> I would really like to know or see what set up you are using to AG and I agree with previous posters (although I am a newbie) the temp control fridge is a must have.
> 
> All the best
> MarkT


 My pic's are up in my Gallery


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## bowie in space (3/5/12)

manticle said:


> My honest opinion is that you need to spend more time learning about recipe development and what ingredients and processes bring to the finished product.
> 
> As others have suggested, keep it simple - either by brewing something simple or by using a tried and true recipe.
> 
> Simple grain bill, single infusion, neutral ale yeast and single hop addition and see how you go.



This is good advice. I wanted to brew every type of beer in the world for my first brews, but quickly realised I needed to find out how each malt, hop and yeast contributed to the finished product. 

So far I've done single hop additions for POR, cluster, galaxy, amarillo, nelson sauvin, EKG, cascade, hallertau mittelfruh, northern brewer, target, challenger, and tomorrow doing NZ willamette. That's a small range of hops when you think about it, but I now know a lot about those hops and can start playing around with different recipes. I have done the same with many varieties of dry and liquid yeasts, and also different malts.

Currently, I'm drinking a brew I put down with a galaxy, amarillo, and nelson sauvin mix. Tasting it now and I realise I'm missing a bit of late hoppiness from the nelson sauvin and could probably up the amarillo too. So next time, I'll tweak it a little to taste how I want it to taste. 

Also, temperature control is a must. I returned home from my week away at work and found my temp probe had shat itself. I don't know what stage of the fermentation this occured, but there was a rancid smell when I opened the fridge. I bottled both brews. One turned out well, but the other is infected. It's heart breaking tipping out a whole batch because you can't control the temperature. I now have an stc-1000 on the way.

Good luck with the AG journey. Slow down, brew lots and enjoy :icon_cheers:


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Before I run out and buy a temperature controller, which one do you recommend for a 300L fridge
BrewMate has the ED330 Temperature controller for $129.95 is this any good?


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## Flewy (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Before I run out and buy a temperature controller, which one do you recommend for a 300L fridge
> BrewMate has the ED330 Temperature controller for $129.95 is this any good?



BrewMate have taken enough of your money at those grain prices. Look on ebay for an aquarium temperature controller, or an STC-1000, and get a sparky mate to wire it up for you (I wouldn't dare suggest you wire it up yourself using instructions on this forum, that'd be irresponsible). All up should be less than $40


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## JoeF (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Before I run out and buy a temperature controller, which one do you recommend for a 300L fridge
> BrewMate has the ED330 Temperature controller for $129.95 is this any good?




Hi mate

I bought a STC-1000 for about $23 shipped to my door from ebay. Here's a link to one for $20 shipped - LINK

You can get the rest of the parts from Jaycar for probably about $20 also. There are heaps of threads on here that have all the info you need.

Hope it helps


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## petesbrew (3/5/12)

Flewy said:


> BrewMate have taken enough of your money at those grain prices. Look on ebay for an aquarium temperature controller, or an STC-1000, and get a sparky mate to wire it up for you (I wouldn't dare suggest you wire it up yourself using instructions on this forum, that'd be irresponsible). All up should be less than $40


+1 on the STC.
I've got one of these running my fridge. $40-ish.


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## MarkT (3/5/12)

Get one of these just to start with if your unsure.
You can upgrade to an expensive one later on!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Thermos...=item256cc41ca3

All the best
Mark T


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## mikec (3/5/12)

Or if you don't have any sparky mates or don't want to piss about with it, get an STC1000 already made up:
STC1000 complete


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

mikec said:


> Or if you don't have any sparky mates or don't want to piss about with it, get an STC1000 already made up:
> STC1000 complete




How much?


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## cdbrown (3/5/12)

Nice rig.

I'd recommend doing DrSmurto's Golden Ale - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=502 - it's a very tasty beer that's easy to make. I've got it on tap at the moment and I'm loving it.

Getting the gear from Nev will cost $24, hops $10, yeast $5. He's in Success Hill so not far from you.

As others have said - avoid buying the finishing hops, just buy 90-100g packs of hops. They'll eventually get used in future brews and saves a heap of money.


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## Aces High (3/5/12)

MarkT said:


> Awesome
> I am just up the road from you on Lord Street and I brew with the local water I will have to give you some of my water to try! maybe I can test your beer and you can test some of mine but I am a real ale lover tho wheat beer is a frav too and I haven't tried brewing any larger or pilsners yet.
> 
> All the best
> MarkT




Im in Belmont, same deal here, bring one of those beers over for a taste. I've got a lager on tap at the moment brewed from tapwater if you want to try


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## petesbrew (3/5/12)

Here's Ross' Summer Ale.
Only a few ingredients needed and Really, really, really nice.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=199


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## mikec (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> How much?



Just over $100 from memory.
Seems he's out of stock, but I think he just makes them as he gets orders.


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

mikec said:


> Or if you don't have any sparky mates or don't want to piss about with it, get an STC1000 already made up:
> STC1000 complete


Thanks just bought the All-purpose temperature controller thermostat STC-1000 with NTC sensor 220v on ebay for $24.00 including postage. For the time being the AG will stay in my kegerator until the controller gets to me.

Plus Thank you to all who have comments. A lot to take in when it comes to AG, I'm very keen to make better tasting beer than extract.

I thinking of booking in to the Masterclass All Grain Brewing Course in June


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

mikec said:


> Just over $100 from memory.
> Seems he's out of stock, but I think he just makes them as he gets orders.



I'm just thinking the STC-1000 costs say $50 to buy the unit, and the parts to house/hook it up. For the extra $ in this pre-made unit, if it should be the cause to burn your house down then the insurance should not void the claim over it as it's not a home wiring job. 

Just thinking out aloud.


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## SJW (3/5/12)

WTF $72 HOLY CRAP. for grain and hops I do 25 litre final volum batchs for $25, maybe $30 if the are loads of hop. You should only be paying $4 per kg for top of the line FRESH UK floor malted or German stuff. So 5kgs of that a few dollars for hops and even if you are not re-using yeast I think a dry yeast should only be $4 or $5. If thats not the case you should order from Marks Homebrew online.

Steve


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## dicko (3/5/12)

Back to the brew. Sorry about being on topic :lol: 

I would be looking at mash procedures if you are getting a biscuit taste.

IE; mash temp, check that your thermometer is reading correctly and if you have someone near who does AG then do a brew with them or have them comr and brew with you and at least taste your beer for a second opinion.
Ensure that you are not over sparging or extracting tannins due to incorrect temperatures.

Cheers


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

dicko said:


> Back to the brew. Sorry about being on topic :lol:
> 
> I would be looking at mash procedures if you are getting a biscuit taste.
> 
> ...



I'd be explaining to the daughter that dipping her biscuits, to soften them, before eating into daddy's wort is not good.


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## glenwal (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> I'm just thinking the STC-1000 costs say $50 to buy the unit, and the parts to house/hook it up. For the extra $ in this pre-made unit, if it should be the cause to burn your house down then the insurance should not void the claim over it as it's not a home wiring job.
> 
> Just thinking out aloud.



http://www.approvalsandcertification.com.a...%20articles.pdf

$2,200 fine for selling unapproved devices.

And i doubt the insurance company is goind to care who built it. If its unapproved your insurance won't cover it (though you could possibly then sue the guy who's making them)


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

SJW said:


> WTF $72 HOLY CRAP. for grain and hops I do 25 litre final volum batchs for $25, maybe $30 if the are loads of hop. You should only be paying $4 per kg for top of the line FRESH UK floor malted or German stuff. So 5kgs of that a few dollars for hops and even if you are not re-using yeast I think a dry yeast should only be $4 or $5. If thats not the case you should order from Marks Homebrew online.
> 
> Steve


BrewMart on the Website http://www.brewmart.com.au/

JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 500g $4.95
1Kg $5.95
25Kg $65.00


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## cdbrown (3/5/12)

Come along to this months west coast brewers meet. It's on Monday 14th. Bring along some samples and you'll get some very good feedback from a few that are either bjcp judges or in the process of being such. Bring along the recipe as well as that always helps.

those prices from brewmart website seem to be different to inshop. I got some grain there the other week and it was $5/kg.


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## Parks (3/5/12)

Glen W said:


> http://www.approvalsandcertification.com.a...%20articles.pdf
> 
> $2,200 fine for selling unapproved devices.
> 
> And i doubt the insurance company is goind to care who built it. If its unapproved your insurance won't cover it (though you could possibly then sue the guy who's making them)


Doesn't look like they are approved either:


> ELETRICAL SAFETY
> NOT AN AUSTRALIAN CERTIFIED APPLIANCE
> DANGER-DO NOT USE OR CONNECT TO SUPPLY-THIS
> ELETRICAL EQUIPMENT MAY BE FAULTY AND SHOULD BE
> ...


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## petesbrew (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> BrewMart on the Website http://www.brewmart.com.au/
> 
> JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 500g $4.95
> 1Kg $5.95
> 25Kg $65.00


$65/25kg = $2.60/kg.
Buy a sack, buy a plastic container of some sort to store it in for future brews.
Too easy.
And as you've done in your OP, ask for opinions of your recipe here. The answers help.


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## eamonnfoley (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Before I run out and buy a temperature controller, which one do you recommend for a 300L fridge
> BrewMate has the ED330 Temperature controller for $129.95 is this any good?



You should be able to get a fridgermate temp controller from brewmart for around $49 (or at least it was when I bought it). It more than you need.


----------



## eamonnfoley (3/5/12)

QUOTE (georgecopley @ May 3 2012, 02:59 PM) 
BrewMart on the Website http://www.brewmart.com.au/

JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 500g $4.95
1Kg $5.95
25Kg $65.00

--------
Way to encourage new brewers Brewmart! 500g bag marked up by 380% on the price of a sack. Its bloody grain not gold dust.

Disgraceful. As bad as trying to be a responsible drinker and buying a single bottle for $4 or $5 when a carton is about $60. Or a middy (pot) costing 80% of the price of a pint at the pub. Makes me angry!


----------



## Parks (3/5/12)

foles said:


> QUOTE (georgecopley @ May 3 2012, 02:59 PM)
> BrewMart on the Website http://www.brewmart.com.au/
> 
> JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 500g $4.95
> ...



You also need to realise the handling costs of 500g to 1kg is probably the same. Same price and time to pack. Negligible postage difference unless the 1kg puts you over a postage weight bracket.

It's called "I don't want to sell 500g at a time, but I will if you pay through the ass"


----------



## glenwal (3/5/12)

foles said:


> Way to encourage new brewers Brewmart! 500g bag marked up by 380% on the price of a sack. Its bloody grain not gold dust.
> 
> Disgraceful. As bad as trying to be a responsible drinker and buying a single bottle for $4 or $5 when a carton is about $60. Or a middy (pot) costing 80% of the price of a pint at the pub. Makes me angry!



Most LHBS's are the same. If the person buying it can't see the value in getting double the amount for the extra $1 then you can't really blame the shop.


----------



## eamonnfoley (3/5/12)

Parks said:


> You also need to realise the handling costs of 500g to 1kg is probably the same. Same price and time to pack. Negligible postage difference unless the 1kg puts you over a postage weight bracket.
> 
> It's called "I don't want to sell 500g at a time, but I will if you pay through the ass"



I realise this but seriously, 380% ? Brewmart is a walk-in shop. How much do they think their labour is worth? 500g should be about 200% on the sack price (roughly $2.50 for base malts), and I know places where it is.


----------



## petesbrew (3/5/12)

petesbrew said:


> $65/25kg = $2.60/kg.
> Buy a sack, buy a plastic container of some sort to store it in for future brews.
> Too easy.
> And as you've done in your OP, ask for opinions of your recipe here. The answers help.


Lol, I should add a note about spec malts... it's all good to get it cheap bulk, but you have to be sure you're going to use it.
I've still got 2kg left of Choc malt, a 6kg purchase that I bought a few years ago. I even gave 2 kilo's away.

I don't mind paying extra for a kilo purchase of a spec when I need it.


----------



## stux (3/5/12)

You'll probably need to get a few bits to assemble your STC-1000 from Jaycar etc, will add another 30$ or so.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=824333

and parts list

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=834623


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## SJW (3/5/12)

I can and have walked into my LHBS and got 200g of grain cracked and vac packed for the same price as a ton. Thats why I do not buy in bulk anymore and have even retired my mill. Its all about giving your customers good service and your good customers will be loyal.

Steve


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## sim (3/5/12)

SJW said:


> I can and have walked into my LHBS and got 200g of grain cracked and vac packed for the same price as a ton. Thats why I do not buy in bulk anymore and have even retired my mill. Its all about giving your customers good service and your good customers will be loyal.
> 
> Steve



i really dont understand what you're meaning here. :blink: please explain?


----------



## QldKev (3/5/12)

SJW said:


> I can and have walked into my LHBS and got 200g of grain cracked and vac packed for the same price as a ton. Thats why I do not buy in bulk anymore and have even retired my mill. Its all about giving your customers good service and your good customers will be loyal.
> 
> Steve





fu<k, must have been a small batch size


----------



## pimpsqueak (3/5/12)

Stux said:


> You'll probably need to get a few bits to assemble your STC-1000 from Jaycar etc, will add another 30$ or so.
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=824333
> 
> ...



Or just snap up this little bargain off ebay... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adloheat-240v-H...b0#ht_500wt_949


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## sim (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> fu<k, must have been a small batch size



brings meaning to the phrase "just a thimble"!


----------



## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

When I was told that I was paying to much for grain, hops and yeast on this topic, started to surf around and came across TWOC in Perth.
http://www.homebru.com.au 

Joe White Export Pilsner 2.5kg $10.60 maybe $4.00 cheaper than BrewMart
Joe White Wheat Malt 1kg $5.00 $ 0.95 cheaper than BrewMart
Perle Hops 100g $8.00 $1.95 cheaper than BrewMart
Hallertau Hops100g $8.00 $1.95 cheaper than BrewMart 
2007 Wyeast 125ml Activator Pack Pilsen Lager $14.95 (Still the same) at BrewMart

I wouldn't save much, would pay more in petrol just getting there and back, about 3/4 of hour drive to Bibra Lake from my house .
I will not go to West Brew nonthinking but problems with them in the past are were very rude.

I have always found Neil and his wife at BrewMart very helpful indeed and every time I go there it's chock a block with customers.


----------



## Aces High (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> When I was told that I was paying to much for grain, hops and yeast on this topic, started to surf around and came across TWOC in Perth.
> http://www.homebru.com.au
> 
> Joe White Export Pilsner 2.5kg $10.60
> ...




Go to gryphon, he's in bassendean and a regular on here, then get anything he doesn't have you can get from brewmart. they're both within 10 minutes of you, here's gryphon website Gryphon

Gryphons prices are good and he's got plenty of knowledge (I better be getting something free for this wrap Nev)


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

I'm not sure, but georgecopley are you ignorant or just retarted? You've been told about Gryphon a few times in this thread, but you choose to ignore it. Maybe look at South Africa and consider a drive there? Ignore all the good comments so far, about brew shops, recipe ideas, meeting experienced brewers, and pay $75 for another brew to chuck away.


----------



## eviljesus (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> I'm not sure, but georgecopley are you ignorant or just retarted? You've been told about Gryphon a few times in this thread, but you choose to ignore it. Maybe look at South Africa and consider a drive there? Ignore all the good comments so far, about brew shops, recipe ideas, meeting experienced brewers, and pay $75 for another brew to chuck away.


 :lol:

In all seriousness. The questions have been answered and some very good, sound advice has been given out by other members here, if you choose not to follow it so be it.


----------



## homebrewkid (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Just a over powering biscuit taste went down the sink undrinkable
> 
> It was drinkable No bitterness taste a little biscuit taste no where near like my best Extract brew
> 
> ...




stop fermenting in the fricken cookie jar.................... :icon_cheers: 

cheers: HBK.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> I'm not sure, but georgecopley are you ignorant or just retarted? You've been told about Gryphon a few times in this thread, but you choose to ignore it. Maybe look at South Africa and consider a drive there? Ignore all the good comments so far, about brew shops, recipe ideas, meeting experienced brewers, and pay $75 for another brew to chuck away.


Must be a rich loyal customer :lol: 
Nev


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Gryphon said:


> I'm not sure, but georgecopley are you ignorant or just retarted? You've been told about Gryphon a few times in this thread, but you choose to ignore it. Maybe look at South Africa and consider a drive there? Ignore all the good comments so far, about brew shops, recipe ideas, meeting experienced brewers, and pay $75 for another brew to chuck away.


Mate I had a look on the white pages and could not find Gryphon anywhere or a shop called Gryphon, if I new where it was in Bassendean I would go in a have a talk to the people there. You are a keyboard warrior Half wit


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## eviljesus (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Mate I had a look on the white pages and could not find Gryphon anywhere or a shop called Gryphon, if I new where it was in Bassendean I would go in a have a talk to the people there. You are a keyboard warrior Half wit



You've been linked and the bloke (Nev) has even posted in the thread! There is a link in his signature. 

Did you jump on and surf around google?

https://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sclien...22&bih=1025


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## bignath (3/5/12)

Im curious as to how you managed to get a quote that was originally from qldkev, requoted as written by gryphon.....

Not sure who you're telling off.....


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## pimpsqueak (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Mate I had a look on the white pages and could not find Gryphon anywhere or a shop called Gryphon, if I new where it was in Bassendean I would go in a have a talk to the people there. You are a keyboard warrior Half wit



A big part of posting in a forum, especially starting a thread of your own, is to read the replies in the thread. Particularly when they're helpful replies. Nev (Gryphon Brewing) posted post #16 and QldKev pointed it out to you 3 posts later.

Your eyes painted on?


----------



## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Right thanks mate eviljesus

I just had a look at the website

Nev is it,

May I ask where is your shop front with address plus phone number can't see it on the webpage.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (3/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Right thanks mate eviljesus
> 
> I just had a look at the website
> 
> ...


George
Online shop for orders but pick ups from my house in Bassendean. contact me by email [email protected]
Nev


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## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> George
> Online shop for orders but pick ups from my house in Bassendean. contact me by email [email protected]
> Nev


 Right No Shop get it now Thanks bloke


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## QldKev (3/5/12)

Back to all seriousness, (if your still talking to me)

So far you've had,
invites by at least one local brewer to help out, including the supply of their water that they are happy to brew with, (I would jump on meeting a local brewer)
an invite to the brewing group in Perth (also heaps of people to chat with)
ideas/recipes to go back to a basic ale, which helps hides more mistakes and cheaper to make until you get the concepts sorted,
a local supplier (talking on Nev's behalf) would be happy to help sort you out with recipes and supply it at a decent price.

If you was local I would invite you around for a brew day, as I think that is the best way to learn about brewing and put it all together. 

Good luck with your brewing from here


QldKev


----------



## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

QldKev said:


> Back to all seriousness, (if your still talking to me)
> 
> So far you've had,
> invites by at least one local brewer to help out, including the supply of their water that they are happy to brew with, (I would jump on meeting a local brewer)
> ...


Thank you QldKev, Beaning new it was a hard to keep up with many comments. And I do thank every one who put in.
I didn't realise that nev and Gryphon Brewing was in the same person, I was looking for a shop front.
I have been brewing Extract beers for over 20 years, moving to AG this year it is very exciting. I realise what I have learned in the pass,
I will need to wrought every out the window and start fresh.

So please Thank you to all


----------



## pbrosnan (3/5/12)

pimpsqueak said:


> I hope Brewmart bought you a drink before ******* you that hard.


Lots of useful comments here. I agree with the sensible comments that the grain, hop and yeast all look OK. I don't really know what a biscuit taste would be but off flavours in a lager usually come from too higher temperature in the ferment, unless there's an infection of course but it doesn't sound like you've got that. How long did it take to get to your FG?


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## pbrosnan (3/5/12)

foles said:


> I realise this but seriously, 380% ? Brewmart is a walk-in shop. How much do they think their labour is worth? 500g should be about 200% on the sack price (roughly $2.50 for base malts), and I know places where it is.


I never by grain or hops from BrewMart, I buy that stuff from Nev. I but dried malt extract for starters from BrewMart. But BrewMart is a great place for picking up other bits and pieces. Neil has done a good job of stocking a lot an ancillary brew gear like kegs, taps, urns etc. I'd say that it's a cut above most brew shops and a lot closer that TWOC. But it is, like most brew shops, expensive. An as to the biscuit taste, I see that your ferment time is about normal so I'd be looking at the mash temp and making sure you're not cooking stuff. Or else having my taste buds checked.


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## Fish13 (3/5/12)

i use nev's services and i am 200km's away from the bloke. I think he even services guys in geraldton and karatha....

Thanks too nev the nuts and o-rings arrived yesterday. I was hoping to drop in sometime tomorrow to have alook at the hermit.


----------



## Bogan333 (3/5/12)

pbrosnan said:


> Lots of useful comments here. I agree with the sensible comments that the grain, hop and yeast all look OK. I don't really know what a biscuit taste would be but off flavours in a lager usually come from too higher temperature in the ferment, unless there's an infection of course but it doesn't sound like you've got that. How long did it take to get to your FG?


 in the first AG to get to FG 13 days and that was with 14 g Coopers Brewing dry Yeast
To my taste buds it was well like wheat bix over powering

Second AG 14 day to get to FG with 15g English Ale dry Yeast
Taste: not bad could drink it not a problem but did have little wheat bix taste at the end taste.

Third AG still Fermenting since last monday I used 15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager dry Yeast.
I had a taste of the wort it was very sweet with a very small a mount of a wheat bix taste

On all three brews 60 min's mash lenght at 65c to 67c


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## Fish13 (4/5/12)

and a simple all grain recipe that costs me not much is this one

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1499

just scale up for the 23l batch. 

works out at about $15 a batch


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## Bogan333 (4/5/12)

I will be going of to a Masterclass All Grain Brewing Course in June 
Beer Production course on a 4 day full-time basis at Little Creatures


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## DJR (4/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> in the first AG to get to FG 13 days and that was with 14 g Coopers Brewing dry Yeast
> To my taste buds it was well like wheat bix over powering
> 
> Second AG 14 day to get to FG with 15g English Ale dry Yeast
> ...



All dry yeast there, perhaps there is your issue... I am not sure what the weetbix taste is but take up the offer of meeting other brewers or get your homebrew shop guys to have a taste...

I would seriously go back to basics on the brewing front, go with a simple 95% Pilsner/Pale 5% Wheat, two additions of hops - one for about 30IBUs at 60mins and about 20-30g at flameout of a good hop e.g. hallertau/amarillo or something, ferment outside the kegerator with Wyeast 1056 or 1272, if you are using whitelabs then WLP001

Will be a bit boring (i guess you'd call the style blonde/kolsch) but you will get a handle on whether it is your mash or something else. What temperature are you sparging with, you might be leaching tannins if your pH is too high or your temperature is too high.

If you are using spring water are you adding calcium into the mash, maybe gypsum or calcium chloride? Not enough calcium might be causing high pH and tannin extraction or you are oversparging


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## Drowro (4/5/12)

George
TWOC also do a monthly brew day. Roy uses two methods, a 3 vessel HERMS setup and a bucket in bucket method. It's normally on a Sunday and he posts up the date he is doing it on his website. This is where I have learned to AG brew and I started four months ago so I'm in a similar position to yourself. I have been a number of times to focus on different parts of the process and too mainly talk to Roy and tap into his vast knowledge of brewing. He has been at it for many years. You can also pick up some supplies while you are there. He is open 7 days which is something I like. 

Good luck. 
Rodders.


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## Bogan333 (4/5/12)

DJR said:


> All dry yeast there, perhaps there is your issue... I am not sure what the weetbix taste is but take up the offer of meeting other brewers or get your homebrew shop guys to have a taste...
> 
> I would seriously go back to basics on the brewing front, go with a simple 95% Pilsner/Pale 5% Wheat, two additions of hops - one for about 30IBUs at 60mins and about 20-30g at flameout of a good hop e.g. hallertau/amarillo or something, ferment outside the kegerator with Wyeast 1056 or 1272, if you are using whitelabs then WLP001
> 
> ...


Sparging at 75c and making sure what's go's out is the same going in. With the spring water no I have not added any calcium or gypsum I had know ideal about that until today in one of the comments that was made. So I have been reading up on that all day.


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## QldKev (4/5/12)

I'm wondering if maybe the shop has mixed up their grains and if giving you a high proportion of biscuit malt. If you get your next batch from Nev or any other shop, different from where you have been getting it it may all come good. 

I would not start messing with salts, unless you are going to use rain water. I would concentrate on the basics, and make a good beer first. Most homebrew shops have a product called 5.2, maybe throw some of that in. I would find the local brewer who offered to supply the water he uses for brewing, have a chat with them, invite them over for the brew day and use their known water source. 

If you want to keep using the spring water, post up the analysis of it and we can have a look if it is ok for brewing. Some springs water has very high bicarb levels that would give a hardness to the final product. I would not say a biscuit taste, but maybe it's that what you perceive as it. 

By the last comment, with sparging at 75 and ensuring what is going out is the same as whats going it, I assume that means you are fly sparging. With fly sparging it's possible to over sparge and pull out some astringencies. What is your procedure for this step.


QldKev


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## Jazzafish (4/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> *First All Grain*
> Grain Bill
> Joe White Traditional Ale 4 kg
> Joe White Wheat Malt .500 g
> ...




Apologies if someone covered this already. On limited downtime and only read a few pages of this topic.

My point:
If your still learning AG brewing, pick one easy to brew recipe and brew it until you nail it. If your getting something you don't like in the flavour, change one thing at a time to figure out what it is your not liking. If you have brewed 5 completely different beers, it is hard to point out where the flavour is coming from... 

I suggest you find a commercial ale that you like, and start by brewing a recipe inspired by it that other home brewers have had success with. Then brew it again to prove your process is sound. EG: clone your own beer. From that point, make changes like... "I wonder what changing this hop to that hop will do to the flavour." One thing at a time and take notes. You will learn a shit load. 

Fermentation is the most important thing in brewing. Great move with the fridge and temp controller. Just have a look at pitching rates with your yeast additions.

Lastly, you mentioned brewing salts. I don't think this is the right time to play with them. I'd go to the extreme and say that Australian water is generally within acceptable ranges for brewing water. But to be sure, do you have your water report and what does it tell you?

If your cooking spaghetti, liken the malt to the pasta, yeast to the sauce, hops to the herbs and the water chemistry to salt and pepper. If you take the salt and pepper away, you can still make tasty spaghetti... same for beer. In terms of priority you have to nail the other elements before water chemistry. If your ferment is an issue, all the water chemistry in the world won't save you.


----------



## keifer33 (4/5/12)

I was doing some reading last night and came across thst contamination with caustic can intensify the biscuity flavour as it alters the ph. What are you using to clean things? Its a long shot but worth a try. It seems the intensity of biscuity ness is dying down with each brew from your notes.


----------



## Parks (4/5/12)

I would definitely be trying a fresh wort kit - Craftbrewer sells them (Sponsored link at the top) and looks like they deliver for $8.

That should give you and idea whether or not it's your fermentation process or wort production process.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (4/5/12)

Get into some SMaSH brews (Single Malt and Single Hop) - or at least a low number of malts (say a 90/10 or 95/5 split) and one, maybe two hops at the most.

Cheaper and you can nail the process pretty well.

My basic APA recipe (I can interchange the ingredients pretty freely and end up with a good result) is:

1. Get brewmate (www.brewmate.net)
2. 5kg Base Ale Malt (usually TF Perle, but Golden Promise, Barret Burston Ale or TF FM Maris Otter can be used), and .5 of spec malt (usually crystal plus rye). Mash at 64 degrees (brewmate will work out your strike temp).
3. 15 IBU of [insert American/NZ/New age Aussie Hop here] at 30 minutes.
4. 15 IBU of [insert hops] at 10 minutes.
5. US 05.

Easy to do, brew mate will work out the quantities for you, and it hides most of the brewer's faults.


----------



## stux (4/5/12)

fish13 said:


> i use nev's services and i am 200km's away from the bloke. I think he even services guys in geraldton and karatha....
> 
> Thanks too nev the nuts and o-rings arrived yesterday. I was hoping to drop in sometime tomorrow to have alook at the hermit.



I buy stuff from Nev and I'm in Sydney


----------



## SJW (4/5/12)

sim said:


> i really dont understand what you're meaning here. :blink: please explain?


Sorry Sim, I will spell it out for you. If you had read the entier thread earlier they were talking about 380% mark up on small amounts of grain. My point is.....if you gave a good local HBS they should not be screwing you for small amounts of grain even though they are entitiled to charge more for the extra handling of small amounts.

Steve


----------



## Malted (4/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Third AG still Fermenting since last monday I used 15g Brew Cellar Premium Lager dry Yeast.



Brew Cellar state that the Premium lager yeast CAN be brewed at 12-18oC but I would be scared of brewing a lager at 18oC. Don't expect it to be good beer and don't expect it to be a lager. 

Get your fermentation fridge temperature controller sorted! This is a very basic thing but can make a huge difference. This is just one of a number of the little things that make the difference between apparently good beer and fantastic beer. 

I assume you are moving to all grain beers after 20 years of goop brewing because you want to make better beer/experiment with flavours/get more satisfaction etc? Even good goop beer needs temperature controlled fermentation to make it good. I am suprised that you do not already have a temperature controlling device after so long in the goop game. 

Not trying to be rude but did you learn anything during 20 years of goop brewing or did you just follow the can label everytime? Following the label makes beer, doing stuff that is not on the label/directions makes great beer. 

Sounds to me like you are trying to brew all grain beer according to the goop can directions.


----------



## Parks (4/5/12)

SJW said:


> Sorry Sim, I will spell it out for you. If you had read the entier thread earlier they were talking about 380% mark up on small amounts of grain. My point is.....if you gave a good local HBS they should not be screwing you for small amounts of grain even though they are entitiled to charge more for the extra handling of small amounts.
> 
> Steve


Your statement was still ambiguous.

Of course you meant I get 200g at the same price per kg as a tonne, but you didn't say that.


----------



## SJW (4/5/12)

Parks said:


> Your statement was still ambiguous.
> 
> Of course you meant I get 200g at the same price per kg as a tonne, but you didn't say that.


point taken................Engrish was never my strong sunject at skool. I never was one for all that book learnin, yall.


----------



## Parks (4/5/12)

:icon_offtopic: 
I quite often find what I write, and what I think I write are 2 very different things...


SJW said:


> point taken................English was never my strong sunject at school. I never was one for all that book learnin, yall.


----------



## glenwal (4/5/12)

Parks said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> I quite often find what I write, and what I think I write are 2 very different things...



Like when a girl says no but she really means yes? :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Parks (4/5/12)

Glen W said:


> Like when a girl says no but she really means yes? :icon_chickcheers:


I don't ever recall a girl saying no, that is to say I didn't hear it h34r:


----------



## Bogan333 (4/5/12)

Malted said:


> Brew Cellar state that the Premium lager yeast CAN be brewed at 12-18oC but I would be scared of brewing a lager at 18oC. Don't expect it to be good beer and don't expect it to be a lager.
> 
> Get your fermentation fridge temperature controller sorted! This is a very basic thing but can make a huge difference. This is just one of a number of the little things that make the difference between apparently good beer and fantastic beer.
> 
> ...


G'day Malted, Like I said before the 4th AG is sitting in my kegerator @ 12c
And when you are saying goop you mean extract brewing yer?
With extract brewing I've always had it around about 22c to 28c
like with my two current extract brew's they are sitting @ 24c inside the brick fire place of the house because it give a general consistency temperature. And YES after 20 years of extract brewing I have learnt a lot trying different things, but you get to a point where you can't do any more. So now with the all the children have moved out and a little bit more money I have moved up to the next level of home brew.
Last weekend I bought a new fridge so the old one is going to be my temperature controller and lagering fridge.With help of some people on this site pointed me to ebay to buy temperature controller thermostat STC-1000 with all fingers crossed I should get it next week.When starting out to do AG it is a big out lay to buy the basic equipment.


----------



## Parks (4/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> G'day Malted, Like I said before the 4th AG is sitting in my kegerator @ 12c
> And when you are saying goop you mean extract brewing yer?
> With extract brewing I've always had it around about 22c to 28c
> like with my two current extract brew's they are sitting @ 24c inside the brick fire place of the house because it give a general consistency temperature. And YES after 20 years of extract brewing I have learnt a lot trying different things, but you get to a point where you can't do any more. So now with the all the children have moved out and a little bit more money I have moved up to the next level of home brew.
> Last weekend I bought a new fridge so the old one is going to be my temperature controller and lagering fridge.With help of some people on this site pointed me to ebay to buy temperature controller thermostat STC-1000 with all fingers crossed I should get it next week.When starting out to do AG it is a big out lay to buy the basic equipment.


It's just really unfortunate that no-one hammered home the temperature bit earlier to you. You would be so much further along in your brewing.

22 deg is pretty much the hottest you want any ale yeast (yes there are exceptions, but not many).


----------



## Bogan333 (4/5/12)

Parks said:


> It's just really unfortunate that no-one hammered home the temperature bit earlier to you. You would be so much further along in your brewing.
> 
> 22 deg is pretty much the hottest you want any ale yeast (yes there are exceptions, but not many).
> 
> G'day Parks I've always know about the temperature. But I didn't have the luxury until this year to buy a second fridge or to run it, so you make do what you got and yes it is hard to keep the temperature down in Perth during the summer months.


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## Malted (4/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> G'day Malted, Like I said before the 4th AG is sitting in my kegerator @ 12c
> And when you are saying goop you mean extract brewing yer?
> With extract brewing I've always had it around about 22c to 28c
> like with my two current extract brew's they are sitting @ 24c inside the brick fire place of the house because it give a general consistency temperature. And YES after 20 years of extract brewing I have learnt a lot trying different things, but you get to a point where you can't do any more. So now with the all the children have moved out and a little bit more money I have moved up to the next level of home brew.
> Last weekend I bought a new fridge so the old one is going to be my temperature controller and lagering fridge.With help of some people on this site pointed me to ebay to buy temperature controller thermostat STC-1000 with all fingers crossed I should get it next week.When starting out to do AG it is a big out lay to buy the basic equipment.


12oC great. My mistake, sorry. 
Goop = stuff out of a can whether it be extract or a kit. It can be a derogatory term used by all grain snobs for pretty much anything other than all grain brews. Or it can be a term used by cheeky buggers.  

As Parks highlighted, fermentation temperature is important and 28oC is far too hot for Ales (albeit a couple of exceptions).
The stc1000 is a great device and couple it with your new brewing fridge (albeit recycled from the kitchen) and this, our new brewing friend, will move you up a level. 

Sorry if I sounded harsh, maybe I am being a bit too honest. The kit instructions say to brew at 22-28oC and this is complete rubbish. I got the feeling that you have been brewing according to the kit instructions and this confirms it for me. I will state this again: Following the label makes beer, doing stuff that is not on the label/directions makes great beer. Even Fermentis who make Safale American Ale dry yeast US-05, say it's fermentation temperature range is 15-24oC. Yes it could be brewed at 24oC, in theory, but for clean brewing free from off flavours you would probably want to brew in the range of 18 to 22oC at the most. I'd go as far as to say 18,19 or 20oC would be optimal for clean flavours. I am sure more experienced brewers could clarify this. 

Yes starting all grain can be expensive, it depends on how complex you want the process and your equipment to be. Be careful, building up a brewing system yourself is addictive and leads to purchasing lots of expensive shiny things.  

Now with your stc1000 you are on the right track. It is about time I pulled my head in and exited stage left. There is lots of useful information on this forum, have a good read. Most importantly, I hope you are soon able to fully enjoy the fruits of your all grain brewing labour.

Edit: just read you post above that you wrote whilst I was writing this. STC1000 - she'll soon be all bonza.


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## Bogan333 (4/5/12)

Malted said:


> 12oC great. My mistake, sorry.
> Goop = stuff out of a can whether it be extract or a kit. It can be a derogatory term used by all grain snobs for pretty much anything other than all grain brews. Or it can be a term used by cheeky buggers.
> 
> As Parks highlighted, fermentation temperature is important and 28oC is far too hot for Ales (albeit a couple of exceptions).
> ...


 Like I said to Parks I've always know about the temperature. But I didn't have the luxury until this year to buy a second fridge or to run it, so you make do with what you got and yes it is hard to keep the temperature down in Perth during the summer months.


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## Parks (4/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Like I said to Parks I've always know about the temperature. But I didn't have the luxury until this year to buy a second fridge or to run it, so you make do with what you got and yes it is hard to keep the temperature down in Perth during the summer months.


At least you know how we feel now 

Just remember, for the price of a few brews (especially considering what you were paying per brew) you can buy a fridge and temp control.

After good sanitation practises temp control must be second. Start there before trying to fix any flavour issues next.

And, as others have said, take a highly ranked and simple recipe like Smurtos Golden Ale or Ross' Summer Ale and go from there. Always start with a known good recipe first then work from there.


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## sim (6/5/12)

QUOTE (SJW @ May 4 2012, 10:43 AM) 

Sorry Sim, I will spell it out for you. If you had read the entier thread earlier they were talking about 380% mark up on small amounts of grain. My point is.....if you gave a good local HBS they should not be screwing you for small amounts of grain even though they are entitiled to charge more for the extra handling of small amounts.



Parks said:


> Your statement was still ambiguous.
> 
> Of course you meant I get 200g at the same price per kg as a tonne, but you didn't say that.




ahh yes. :icon_offtopic: For the record i dont comment in a thread unless ive read it all - Shits me when threads/posts dont make sense or are unnecessarily long. Anywho, carry on. Good luck to the OP'er.


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## Bogan333 (6/5/12)

G'day All
I just finished racking the brew the Reading before racking was 1.007 Fermentation Temperature 12c Primary 7 days.
I had a taste, bloody beautiful No off flavors Light little malt and very refreshing Aroma: very fruity mainly from the Galaxy hops.
I've put it back into the fridge at a very low Temperature for Largering it will stay in there for 4 weeks min.


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## Bogan333 (13/5/12)

*Brew Day is finished*

13/05/2012
Grain Bill
5.500kg JW EXPORT PILSNER MALT 
300gm JW WHEAT MALT 

Hop Bill
Perle Pellet 49.50g 90min's Boil 
Haulertau Southern Pellet 12g 15 min's Boil 
Perle Pellet 12g 15min's Boil
Haulertau Southern Pellet 12g 0 min's Aroma
Perle Pellet 12g 0 min's Aroma

Whirlfloc 1 Talbet 15 min's boil
Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager with two cups of water and one cup of DME made on 12-05-12



Batch size 29.0L Spring Water

OG 1.049
FG TBA
ABV TBA
EBC 6
IBU 36.3
Efficiency 80%
AA% 78
BU:GU Ratio 0.74
Balance Vale 1.74
Boil Time 90 min's

Fermentation Temperature 9c
Primary TBA
Secondary TBA


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## bignath (13/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager with two cups of water and one cup of DME made on 12-05-12




Ummm, not sure where you got those quantities from for making a starter, but that looks strange to me. 

I am under the belief that starter worts for yeast should be between 1.030 and 1.040 ideally, with most people quoting closer to 1.040 as "the mark".

Just put those quantities into Brewmate, it won't let me do a .5lt (2 cups) size, but at 1lt, adding 250g (1 cup) of DME would give you close to 1.100 - not sure that's a good idea. Not sure it's a bad idea either, just pointing it out.

From memory, when i used to "start" yeasts, i'm sure the ratio should be a lot closer to 100g DME to 1lt for an approx appropriate gravity.

Wolfy will know.....


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## Bogan333 (13/5/12)

miss type 1/2 of cup DME


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## bignath (14/5/12)

georgecopley said:


> miss type 1/2 of cup DME




yep, that's a bit better.


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