# Tmav Ležk ( Czech Dark Lager )



## kook (12/12/09)

Following a short trip to Prague this year, I must find a way of replicating some of the great dark lagers I tried. The four highlight dark beers (ok technically one isn't a ležk due to being 13) were:

Chotěboř Čern Prmium tmav ležk
Flekovsk ležk 
Pivovarsk dům Tmav ležk
Rohozec Skalk tmav speciln

All of these beers shared similar characteristics, quite low hop flavour, but firm, balanced bitterness. Very soft, silky full mouthfeels. Beautiful ruby highlights complemented by a rocky mousse-like head. Complex malt flavour, sometimes almost dark-fruit like, sometimes edging more towards a very smooth cocoa-like espresso. All were actually quite sweet too - but dry at the same time, as they didn't feel in anyway whatsoever cloying. Extremely drinkable, moreish beers with almost UK-cask like carbonation levels (very low!). 

(Homebrew) literature on these beers is very limited. There is loads of information out there on Světl Ležk in the form of Bohemian Pilsner, but I've strugged to find example recipes for dark versions. In the cases I have, they're often trying to imitate the more mass market export examples like Kozel and Krusovice. These seem more like Schwarzbier to me than the beers I tasted, a lot fizzier, thinner in body and lacking in malt complexity.

I did find a few threads on here that also look at the topic - but none really had any feedback on beers after people brewed them, or flavour descriptions. Closest seems to be this which is repeated a fair bit on google:


> Moravian Dark Lager
> This recipe is taken directly from the brewlog from the day I spent brewing in the Moravia. 44% Budvar malt, 44% light munich, 10% 55Lov crystal, and 2% black patent. See complete details.
> 5 lb Budvar malt, 5 lb munich, 1.1 lb crystal 55, 3 oz black patent, 1 oz Saaz, 1 oz Saaz, 1 oz Saaz, Budvar yeast, 1 cup corn sugar. Three hop additions at 90, 60, 20 minutes.



Does anyone have a killer recipe for one of these beers? What techniques are recommended? Decoction and floor malted Bohemian Pilsner malt seem obvious, but some obviously had some form of crystal malt / cara malt in them too. Munich? Maybe even a different base malt? Any suggestions as to the grist? Mash regimes to promote both body and fermentability? Suggested water profiles?

Any help would be much appreciated


----------



## Renegade (12/12/09)

Did you spend a lot of time on formulating the diacritic phonology within your post, or did you copy/paste? Clever boy, either way. Sure to impress many readers who don't use a language rich in such glyphs.


----------



## warrenlw63 (12/12/09)

Hey kook can't offer much help having not made any but like you enjoyed them immensely when I was in the Czech Republic. I found them similar to Munich Dunkels but different enough to call them a style on their own.

The only clue I ever got was a breakdown of the Flekovsk lek grainbill in one of Roger Protz's books. It's a little (if not very) vague but may give you something to work with. It goes something like this.

50% Pils Malt
30% Munich Malt
15% Caramalt
5% Roast

As for hopping that would probably be easier at a guess. Saaz and probably not a lot of it.

Hope this is at least something to start with. Must make one myself one of these days.

Edit: Renegade I skipped the diacritic phonology thing and just did a cut 'n paste on kook's post. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## Renegade (12/12/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Edit: Renegade I skipped the diacritic phonology thing and just did a cut 'n paste on kook's post. :lol:



Be honest - You even copy/pasted *diacritic phonology*, yea? 

Please, will you Mtley Cre stay on topic, it is, after all, a moderator's OP. We couldn't have him lock his own thread.


----------



## NeilArge (12/12/09)

Hi Kook

I know that you said that you weren't all that interested in the more commercial beers like Kozel but this is a brew that I put down a few months ago for replicate Kozel Dark. It's lovely, and matches the characteristics that you listed at the start off your post. The recipe was developed with a lot of help from people on this forum.

Recipe: Vaasa Nights
Brewer: Neil
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Schwarzbier (Black Beer)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 26.33 L
Estimated OG: 1.042 SG
Estimated Color: 44.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 24.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.20 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 56.41 % 
1.25 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.Grain 32.05 % 
0.15 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 3.85 % 
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 3.85 % 
0.08 kg Carafa I (663.9 EBC) Grain 2.05 % 
0.07 kg Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC) Grain 1.79 % 
45.00 gm Spalter [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 20.3 IBU 
15.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (20 min) Hops 4.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (1 min) Hops 0.2 IBU 
1.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.22 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
4.00 gm Chalk (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Pilsen Lager (Wyeast Labs #2007) Yeast-Lager 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 3.90 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 11.70 L of water at 72.7 C 67.0 C 

Cheers

ToG


----------



## brettprevans (12/12/09)

That's quite a bit differant (and better looking) recipe than from BYO or Whatever brewing mag I've seen the clone in. I dud a kozel dark clone and it lacked the complexity of kozel ESP as it a 3.5%? beer. Hard to get that nalty goodness in low alc beers.

Edit. Ur og looks a little high to be a true clone. Still tasty though


----------



## NeilArge (12/12/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> That's quite a bit differant (and better looking) recipe than from BYO or Whatever brewing mag I've seen the clone in. I dud a kozel dark clone and it lacked the complexity of kozel ESP as it a 3.5%? beer. Hard to get that nalty goodness in low alc beers.
> 
> Edit. Ur og looks a little high to be a true clone. Still tasty though



I was surprised how close this tasted to the real thing, though I haven't done a side-by-side tasting (can't get Kozel in Armidale anymore  ). The OG is a bit high due to me getting better than anticipated efficiency.

Cheers

ToG


----------



## Gerard_M (12/12/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> The only clue I ever got was a breakdown of the Flekovsk lek grainbill in one of Roger Protz's books. It's a little (if not very) vague but may give you something to work with. It goes something like this.
> 
> 50% Pils Malt
> 30% Munich Malt
> ...



Warren That is a pretty good book, I used it as a travel guide for my last European holiday, the grain bill was a bonus.

I used this recipe as a base for a very successful commercial beer a few years ago. 
50% Joe White Export Pils Malt
30% Joe White Dark Munich Malt
15% Weyermann Carapils
5% Farb Malt, use Carafa Spec 3 as Farb is no longer available.

Single infusion mash @ 65degrees C. Hopped the similar to the Pilsner I was brewing at the same time, fermented on White Labs WLP838.

I may brew something similar again, as the other mob I brewed this for chopped & changed it around way too much after I left, resulting in a beer that no longer resembles the original brew.

Ah stuff it I am going to brew it after my next batch of Pilsner & use the slurry to get it firing !

Cheers
Gerard


----------



## Thirsty Boy (12/12/09)

Haven't tasted the beers you were talking about - but I found warrenlw63 's remarks interesting.

Just from your flavour descriptions it seemed to me that these beers were related to a Kozel or Krusci in the same sort of way that a munich dunkel is related to a schwartzbier. Perhaps you could start with one of the recipes for a Kozel et al and Dunkelize it?

There are a few good Czech restaurants/beer cafes around the place, I might print the names of these beers out and take them in, see if theyhave or know where to get these sorts of beers

TB


----------



## kook (12/12/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Haven't tasted the beers you were talking about - but I found warrenlw63 's remarks interesting.
> 
> Just from your flavour descriptions it seemed to me that these beers were related to a Kozel or Krusci in the same sort of way that a munich dunkel is related to a schwartzbier. Perhaps you could start with one of the recipes for a Kozel et al and Dunkelize it?
> 
> ...



It's not unsimilar to a Dunkel actually - but to me Dunkel is far more dry, without the sweetness and malt complexity. Most dunkels to me are quite "munichy" as opposed to malt derived fruit-like and caramel flavours. I guess this is to Dunkel as German Pils is to Czech Pils. Makes sense really 

You can get the Rohozec in a bottle - but I doubt it is exported at all. It would be worth paying the shipping to have it sent over though! The others are draft only or growler / milk bottle / juice carton / neighbours bucket arrangements.


Cheers Gerard - I'd heard your recipe referenced a few times but not seen that actual grain bill. Was the carapils to boost the body / head retention due to the JW malts? Would you still recommend it if using Bohemian Pilsner malt?


Thanks for the Protz recipe Warren, I'm thinking it is probably a good starting point with some Weyermann malts:

50% Bohemian Pils (floor malted)
30% Munich II
15% CaraBohemian
5% Carafa III

Will use a Noonan style decoction, dough in thick with room temp water, then raise by infusion to 40, decoct to 50, then decoct to 67 and infusion for mash out. 90 and 20 min additions of Saaz to around 25 IBU, with only a small later addition. WY2001/WLP800 or WY2308/WLP838 sound like the go!


----------



## warrenlw63 (12/12/09)

Hey kook the Czechs are in no way attached to the Reinheitsgebot. I'm guessing that a lot of these Czech dark lagers are probably using things other than barley malt to dry the body out a bit ??

Don't discount things like dark (caramel) syrups and Sinmar type additives. I'll bet my bottom dollar that beers like Krusovice use them.

Like to see this thread stay alive with people's findings. Be good to nail a nice version of this.  

Warren -


----------



## drsmurto (12/12/09)

Rashy made a bloody nice dark czech lager IIRC.

Either PM him or hope he jumps online and gives his 2 c.

From memory it wasnt as malt driven as a dunkel, but not as roasty as a schwarzbier. Nice, dry and crisp lager. Except black.


----------



## warrenlw63 (12/12/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Rashy made a bloody nice dark czech lager IIRC.
> 
> Either PM him or hope he jumps online and gives his 2 c.
> 
> From memory it wasnt as malt driven as a dunkel, but not as roasty as a schwarzbier. Nice, dry and crisp lager. Except black.



Hey that's right Smurto... I never tasted it (thanks arab  ) but you're right. We'll get on his cranky old hammer. :lol: 

Warren -


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (12/12/09)

Thanks Smurto  ! If you say it was that good then it must have been :lol: .

Kook, I only made one attempt at brewing a U Fleku clone and was somewhat guided on what grains to use by Warren.
I did a single infusion mash at 63C using 1/2 tap water and 1/2 rainwater for the brewing liquor.

Here is the recipe that I used and I was very happy with the outcome, it had that smooth maltiness and a nice mild roastiness. I even think the bitterness could go up to 30 without too much intrusion on flavours.
Anyway, for what it's worth here it is. Let us know how your efforts go Kook.

U Fleku 

Type: All Grain
Date: 2/06/2009 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Mark Rasheed 
Boil Size: 30.33 L 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Marks Equipment 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.90 kg Weyermann Pilsner (3.9 EBC) Grain 59.7 % 
1.46 kg Weyermann Munich II (23.6 EBC) Grain 30.0 % 
0.25 kg Weyermann Carafa Special II (1099.3 EBC) Grain 5.1 % 
0.25 kg Weyermann Caramunich II (124.1 EBC) Grain 5.1 % 
45.00 gm Saaz [3.60%] (60 min) Hops 21.1 IBU 
25.00 gm Saaz [3.60%] (20 min) Hops 3.9 IBU 
1 Pkgs Budvar (Wyeast #2000) Yeast-Lager 



Beer Profile


Measured Original Gravity: 1.048 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.008 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 % 
Bitterness: 25.0 IBU 
Est Color: 51.4 EBC 

C&B
TDA


----------



## Thirsty Boy (13/12/09)

I've just tried an experiment...

I took my German Pilsner and added a whack of brewers caramel till it was dark.

It came out remarkably like a schwarzbier - almost entirely without roast character and a little sweeter perhaps than a true schwarz, closer probably to a Czech dark like Kozel. I reckon that if you took a sweeter fruitier version of a czech pilsner, something like Staropramen rather than a Budvar or an Urquell, and that was what you added this stuff too.... you would be well and truly headed in the direction you are after.

Might be too much going all the way with the caramel, but as warren pointed out, its not like the Czechs have the same hang-ups about adjuncts as the Germans, so don't discount it either.


----------



## Gerard_M (14/12/09)

kook said:


> Cheers Gerard - I'd heard your recipe referenced a few times but not seen that actual grain bill. Was the carapils to boost the body / head retention due to the JW malts? Would you still recommend it if using Bohemian Pilsner malt?



I wanted to boost the head retention, but that was due to the way the beers were going to be treated before being served teeth chatteringly cold. JW Malts have never given me any drama when it comes to body or head retention. I prefer the local malts to the overseas grains, and the results I have had using JW Export Pilsner in a single infusion mash have been outstanding. When I brew it next I may sub the Carapils for JW Wheat malt.
Cheers
Gerard


----------



## kook (7/3/10)

Well - I finally got around to brewing this a few weeks ago (13th Feb).

Recipe I used was:

*Recipe:* Tmavy Lezak
*Style: * Specialty Beer
*Target OG:* 1.050 (Actual - 1.047)
*Target FG:* 1.015 (Actual - 1.014)
*Yeast:* WY2001 (Fermented at 11C, 350ml slurry pitched from a light lager)
*Boil Time:* 90 mins

*Fermentables:*
50% Weyermann Bohemian Pils
30% Weyermann Munich I
15% Weyermann CaraBohemian
3.8% Weyermann Carafa III
1.2% Weyermann Carafa II

*Mash Schedule: * 60min Single infusion at 68C, batch sparge

*Hopping Schedule (Tinseth):*
22.5 IBU Czech Saaz (3.0%) at 90 min
0.5g/L (around 2.5 IBU) Czech Saaz (3.0%) at 20 mins


Racked it to keg today - really impressed. I tasted it at fermentation temp (it's been left for 3 weeks at 11C) and I'm happy. Real teller will be in 3 months once the lagering is done though.

Initial impressions: Deep black with ruby highlights, sudsy, light brown head. Aroma of roasted nuts, light coffee, cocoa. Flavour had loads of nutty caramel, chocolate, raisins and a balanced level of bitterness. Only downside I can tell so far is a slight diacetyl note. I'm going to leave the keg at 18C for a week before lagering it at 6C for 3 months. I'll report back again then 

At this point, I'd definitely recommend this as a good recipe to start with.

PS - Reason for the mix of Carafa II and III was to use up some stock. Next time I'll stick to Carafa III.


----------



## Muggus (7/3/10)

Yum, how I miss a good Čern pivo. Especially for the prices you get the stuff in the supermarkets in the Czech Republic.

Glad to see you've got a recipe sorted out Kook, would love to make one. My only worry is that 1.050(or 1.047) seems a bit high for the style. 
I love the flavour of these beers, but also the quaffability of something that's only ~3.5% alcohol and yet has decent body, and is somewhat different from the Germans Schwarzbier in that regard.


----------



## kook (8/3/10)

Muggus said:


> Yum, how I miss a good Čern pivo. Especially for the prices you get the stuff in the supermarkets in the Czech Republic.
> 
> Glad to see you've got a recipe sorted out Kook, would love to make one. My only worry is that 1.050(or 1.047) seems a bit high for the style.
> I love the flavour of these beers, but also the quaffability of something that's only ~3.5% alcohol and yet has decent body, and is somewhat different from the Germans Schwarzbier in that regard.



I should have noted - I'm aiming for around 5% ABV - as most of the examples I enjoyed were around this point. Which examples are 3.5%? Is that a more historical ABV for the style? Most of the modern beers are 11-13 degrees balling, which usually ends up in the range of 4.5-5.2% ABV. I found it very rare to see anything below 10 degrees balling, even in specialist bars like Zl časy.


----------



## neonmeate (8/3/10)

looks like a delicious recipe kook. i have tried a couple of times (back when i had lagering capabilities) to make a cerny/tmavy but never really nailed it.

for anyone in sydney who is after a good czech dark lager (and no i dont include kozel in that) get to bazaar beer cafe in crows nest/st leonards. they have bernard 13 (same sort of OG as kook's) on tap for $6 a half litre. not quite cz prices but pretty good! and it is fresh and bitter and chocolatey and drinkable as buggery.


----------



## Peter Wadey (9/3/10)

neonmeate said:


> ...........bazaar beer cafe in crows nest/st leonards. they have bernard 13 (same sort of OG as kook's) on tap for $6 a half litre. not quite cz prices but pretty good! and it is fresh and bitter and chocolatey and drinkable as buggery.



Noted !!

Ta,
Pete


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (18/1/12)

jyo said:


> \
> 
> Geeeezzz, spam central. Piss off morons.
> Reported.


They post more crap than you :icon_cheers: 
Nev


----------



## jyo (18/1/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> They post more crap than you :icon_cheers:
> Nev



That hurt!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (18/1/12)

jyo said:


> That hurt!


Go to bed sook. No sausage for you on Sunday.


----------

