# Secondary Fermentation



## Spartan 117 (10/1/09)

Hey guys, 

Just bought some corny kegs and will soon start to keg and force carbing my beer. Now given that all I've done up until now is prime and leave in a bottle. My question is with secondary fermentation 1.why is a second vessel used 2.Is it doen at the same temp as primary 3. can i do it in the keg 4. Can i add finnings to the secondary fermentation to reduce chill haze etc. 5. Whats the best way to do it. I've already read both wikipedia's article on it(Rubbish) and used google. 

Cheers 

Aaron


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## Jakechan (10/1/09)

You dont need to secondary ferment. Thats only required for bottling so that the beer is carbonated when you open the cap a few weeks later.

Cheers,
Jake


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## Spartan 117 (10/1/09)

Jakechan said:


> You dont need to secondary ferment. Thats only required for bottling so that the beer is carbonated when you open the cap a few weeks later.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jake



As far as I'm aware thats a type of secondary fermentation. I was told that when you use a secondary fermentation you get a clearer beer when kegging.

Aaron


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## Jakechan (10/1/09)

Spartan 117 said:


> As far as I'm aware thats a type of secondary fermentation. I was told that when you use a secondary fermentation you get a clearer beer when kegging.
> 
> Aaron


I suspect you have been advised to rack into a secondary fermenter, getting the brew off the yeast cake. Apparently fermentation may continue after doing this, but Im sure better brewheads than me shall be along soon to further clarify things.

Cheers,
Jake


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## quantocks (10/1/09)

Spartan 117 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Just bought some corny kegs and will soon start to keg and force carbing my beer. Now given that all I've done up until now is prime and leave in a bottle. My question is with secondary fermentation 1.why is a second vessel used 2.Is it doen at the same temp as primary 3. can i do it in the keg 4. Can i add finnings to the secondary fermentation to reduce chill haze etc. 5. Whats the best way to do it. I've already read both wikipedia's article on it(Rubbish) and used google.
> 
> ...



Go to Bunnings and buy a 20-25L water cube, siphon the beer very gently into that after primary fermentation is done and let it sit sealed up for as long as you can, it will cause more yeast to drop out of suspension the beer will be clear. Then siphon to a keg and you have a nice beer with as little sediment as possible.


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## muckey (10/1/09)

To clear the beer, as stated previously rack the beer to a second container (cube fermenter or keg), cube is good if you want to store the racked beer and start another in the fermenter.

Taking the beer off the yeast cake and keeping it cold will assist the yeast to floc and drop but wont do a lot for chill haze, the proteins do drop over time but not as reliably as the yeast.

If you want to to clear your beer, then rack to a secondary container, chill it down, add some fininings to help the yeast drop out and you can also add an agent like polyclar to fix the haze proteins. You dont need to do this in a cube or fermenter, it can be done in the keg but then everything that drops out is sitting at the bottom of the keg.

I've got a brew sitting in my primary fermenter at the moment. It's finished fermenting so I'll rack it to a second fermenter today and then use gelatine to fine it. ( i find it easier to add finings through the wide fermenter mouth rather than the small cube mouth but it really doesn't matter). A couple of days cold and then I'll add polyclar and it will go in a keg and get force carbed next weekend. I prefer not to get all the yeast etc into my kegs - my preference only.

so there are a number of ways to achive the same outcome.

edit: forgot to add that I crash chilled the fermenter after I confirmed the ferment had finished


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## flattop (10/1/09)

Muckey, don't you add the gelatin mix before you rack or are you adding it after? 
On the few occasions i've racked i created a liquid gelatin solution, poured it in and racked on top.
Actually isinglass is easier, just pour in 25mls and walk away.


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## Crusty (10/1/09)

I'm with Jakechan,
I secondary ferment every AG that I do for a couple of reasons.
1. I like to rack to secondary fermenter to seperate the beer from the original yeast cake. It also leaves a lot of sediment & crap behind in the Primary fermenter.
2. I dry hop pellets into secondary instead of adding the hops at flameout, just my preference really.
After a week in secondary, everything has settled down nicely. I gravity siphon to keg, chill overnight & filter from keg to keg. I waste a little gas doing all this but am extremely happy with my results.
Cheers,
Brian


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## Steve (10/1/09)

Brew in primary until done, rack to keg, chill and force carb, add gelatine. Simple
Cheers
Steve


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## muckey (10/1/09)

flattop said:


> Muckey, don't you add the gelatin mix before you rack or are you adding it after?
> On the few occasions i've racked i created a liquid gelatin solution, poured it in and racked on top.
> Actually isinglass is easier, just pour in 25mls and walk away.



normally mix and add it after I've racked. I find I cant get my head away from the perception that it will clear better if there is not so much yeast cake in the bottom to start with. I know its kind of an irrational notion but I guess we all have our superstitions.  Isinglass may well be easier but I've already got gelatine in the house anyway and it works well enough. The particular type of gelatine that makes up isinglass is apparently better at clearing the beer than standard gelatine as I understand but then I'd need to buy another item to have in the cupboard.

the gelatine doesnt take much really, it only takes a very short time to heat the water above 70 degrees and I can normally start the prep when I'm getting ready to rack anyway.


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## buttersd70 (10/1/09)

Don't confuse racking to a second vessel for conditioning with secondary fermentation; they are differant animals. One is chilled then racked _after_ fermentation is finished, and the other is racked _before _fermentation is finished, and allowed to finish in the secondary vessel, usually at, or just below, fermentation temperature. Jake, bottle carbonation may well be the second stage; but not necessarily. It may be the third, or even 4th vessel. The fermentation done in the serving vessel is usually reffered to as tertiary, as there can be any number of vessels prior to this.

What Muckey (usually) does is a single stage fermentation, followed by a crash chill when finished, and rack to a second vessel for cold conditioning. A very common method, which works well, and minimises the amount of sediment that makes it into the keg. It's also the way I do it much of the time. Although, this depends on what I am brewing. If I am using a highly folcculant yeast, and I don't want to collect any of the yeastcake, I will crash chill the primary, fine it when cold, add pvpp when clear, then keg. I agree with muckey though that it takes slightly longer to drop bright when still on the east cake.

If I am doing a 2 stage ferment, I will ferment in primary untill almost complete, rack to secondary fermentation and allow the ferment to finish at fermentation temperature. Then crash chill, fine, polyclar and keg.

There isn't really a 'best' way, as such. Like many things, it depends...for me, it (mainly) comes down to how flocculant the yeast strain is. Lower flocc strains definately benefit from going to a second vessel to clear (imo).


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## matti (10/1/09)

To clarify all of the above.
*1.*When brewing an ale at ambient temperature the beer is sometimes moved to a second vessel to clear.
Once put into a bottle or keg with sugar is the second fermentation as this will carbonate the beer.

When brewing lager the You ferment to 2/3 of the way and move it to a secondary fermentation vessel.
This to remove it from the sedimentation.
In the secondary vessel it will sit until its is fully fermented and then transferred to bottle or keg.

*2*. the temperature in your second vessel is about the same as primary vessel but can and will be dropped slowly about 2-3 degrees Celsius over 24 hour until the temperature is a the lowest tolerable temperature for the yeast type.
I.e.
Using Saf S-05 at around 16-18 in primary one can lower this strain to around 13-14 without fully putting it to sleep.
For lager yeast like W34-70 one can drop it as low as 3-4 degrees and the yeast will still be able to keep going.

*3.* Yes you can do a secondary fermentation in Keg and you can condition the beer in keg.
(Best option is to have a clearing vessel I.e. second fermenter available then crash chill.
Once beer is clear transfer to Keg.)

*4.* Yes. You can add finings to keg. If you add finings to second fermenter you can transfer all clear beer off the sediment into keg and have a nice clear keg.

*5.* Your comment there is rubbish. :angry: 
Just add a couple of tea spoon of house hold gelatine to 150-200 ml ambient water and let it re-hydrate.
Heat up to 70 degrees after 15 minutes and stir. Allow it a to dissolve and add to chilled beer in a sanitary fashion while still hot.


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## H0U5ECAT (22/5/14)

Secondary fermentation...

Would I be right in saying that about 2-3 days after initial fermentation has settled, transferring over to a secondary for about another week and dropping the temp to really cold (2 deg average) before kegging/bottling and letting it age out for three weeks is a good method?

Or should I do my secondary at the same as first, 18 deg?

At the moment, I've got an extra hoppy IPA, pale ale, steam ale and a cider on the go.


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## JDW81 (22/5/14)

H0U5ECAT said:


> Secondary fermentation...
> 
> Would I be right in saying that about 2-3 days after initial fermentation has settled, transferring over to a secondary for about another week and dropping the temp to really cold (2 deg average) before kegging/bottling and letting it age out for three weeks is a good method?
> 
> ...


Don't bother transferring to another fermenter. Let your fermentation finish in the primary, they crash chill on the yeast cake for a few days. Once you've done that then transfer to kegs or bottle as you normally would.

None of the brews you've got on the go need to be crystal clear, and even if they did I still wouldn't advocate transferring to a secondary fermenter. 

JD


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