# Another 1v recirc build



## CoopsOz

Hi Brewers,
I built a 3v system a couple of years ago thinking it would improve my beers from my BIAB days, it turns out it didn't. It just meant I had heaps more crap in the garage with a lot more cleaning on brew day. As a result I lost interest and haven't brewed for over a year.

Last week I decided that in order to get out of my funk that I would have to simplify the process. I set about converting things I already had in to a 1v recirc. I have read and then read some more but I still have questions.

So here is the build so far. I've got my old HLT with a 2200watt element.









My 19 litre Big W pot. I've cut the slots but I suspect there isn't going to be enough flow. Should I be cutting more slots or drilling holes? I was trying to maintain some sort of structural integrity, The hole in the middle is for an overflow that I saw on one of the other builds. I've put stainless bolts on the bottom so it stands proud of the element, should they be covered in some silicon tube to prevent an accidental short? What would happen if they did touch the element uninsulated? Is that a catastrophic event or will it just burn it out?









My old mash tun false bottom used as a top filter.





Butchers hooks to lift out the malt pipe. The holes were cut with a chassis punch.....it worked a treat.





Incomplete controller from Lael (running Ard Bir). Not sure which version, it was bought sometime ago and only built last week.







And finally my old pumps. I'm not sure if Lael's controller can drive these 240v pumps so I may have to go to a little brown pump. Any advice?





This is how it sits atm.





One concern is the limited amount of space above my malt pipe. I chose my existing HLT as it already had an element but I do have a taller keg that could be used (my old mash tun), if I was to go down that path I will need to buy another element. Also, with the taller keg, the space between the inner and outer is reduced significantly which I'm led to believe can cause issues.

So far all I have had to purchase was the grinder disk/flapper disk and butchers hooks. I'm pretty keen to keep it as a budget build but will spend the coin if I have to.

Any advice? Am I completely off the mark? Thanks in advance.

Coops


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## MastersBrewery

None of the controllers on any part of this site drive a pump or element for that matter. They use a relay ( an electronic switch) the relay used in matho's (laels) controller is rated for 240v. If you so chose, you could use a low rated relay to switch a higher rated relay over say 12v, but either of those pumps will work with the on board relay that came with the kit. Good luck with the build looking good so far.

MB


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## husky

Do you insert a tube to the centre of the 19L pot for an overflow? I have tried with and with out over flow and prefer without so I can get a good idea on how well the mash is flowing. If it overflows it just goes over the sides of the inner pot and I know I need to free up the mash or slow up the recirc.
I'm no sparky but I wouldn't bother with silicone on the bolts. The element exterior should be a sheath only. Avoid anything toughing it but nothing will short if it does(as long as you don't puncture it).


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## CoopsOz

Yeah, there will be a tube in the centre of the the 19l pot.....it's on the slow boat from China. Thanks for the element advice, I didn't know they were sheathed.


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## TheWiggman

Nice neat setup there that's looking the goods. Keep updating. And yeah, don't bother physically protecting the element. As long as there's a good earth to the element body your home electricity protection will take care of any risks.


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## Adr_0

Can you wind in the nuts on the bolts a bit to lower the whole malt pipe? 

I am a big fan of the LBP and use a PWM controller for mine. Like any pump, give it healthy suction (no air pockets, bit of vertical height, not too many bends, and big tube) and you will be laughing.


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## boybrewer

Check out Qld Kevs posts and his youtube . He built a similar system to yours and found that the slots in the malt pipe weren't enough so he drilled a crazy amount of holes in between the slots .


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## CoopsOz

I could lower the inner a little bit. I wanted to ensure that I didn't touch the element but I was probably being a little over cautious. Looks like my Friday night will be spent drilling lots of 2mm holes!


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## Benn

Would an 11 Litre malt pipe be ok for single batch brews or would it be too small to contain a typical grain bill?
Just looking at different options that I have available.


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## CoopsOz

From what I've read, the 19L pot is pushing it for a 5kg grain bill. I suspect 11 litres would be too small (assuming the definition of single batch brews is 20 litres or so).


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## real_beer

Benn said:


> Would an 11 Litre malt pipe be ok for single batch brews or would it be too small to contain a typical grain bill?
> Just looking at different options that I have available.


Matho's famous build that started a revolution and exposed his genius in the brewing equipment DIY arena used a 8lt malt pipe.
Look here and read his reply to Hosko:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/57924-braumeister-nextgen-build/page-9#entry828213

The picture that started all the excitement of the BM copies.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/57924-braumeister-nextgen-build/page-7#entry825336

His malt pipe is 7.5lt with filters in place and he got 11.5lt 1.060
:beer:


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## Matplat

CoopsOz said:


> From what I've read, the 19L pot is pushing it for a 5kg grain bill. I suspect 11 litres would be too small (assuming the definition of single batch brews is 20 litres or so).


QLDKEV clocked a total grainbill of 5.64kg using his bigW malt pipe.... the recording of which is immortalised on youtube! I also spoke to another chap who said he had got 5.75kg in a big w pot.....


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## takai

I had 6.2kg in a BigW pot a little while ago, but it wasnt pretty.


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## CoopsOz

Tonight's effort. Still seems to be rigid enough so my fears may have been unwarranted. There is still room for more holes if the flow is insufficient. 




I picked up a shelf for $2 from my local tip shop as well. It's not stainless so I might have to hunt down an alternative.


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## Matplat

How long do you reckon it took to cut slots and drill? I have the same job to do at some point this weekend. ...


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## CoopsOz

It didn't take as long as I thought it would. The slots are done in less than 10 mins and the holes probably took me half an hour or so. I used a spring loaded centre punch and a new drill bit. Marking it out probably took the longest. I printed out a 20 piece pie chart and taped it to the pot, then it was simply a case of using a centre punch to transfer key points, remove paper and join the dots with a texta.


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## Adr_0

Looks good! Drilling stainless is a pain but it's not too bad if the holes are only 2-2.5mm.

That BBQ grill thingy, you sure it's not going to bend/flex and tip your malt pipe over? Looks a bit precarious...


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## CoopsOz

Yeah, you are probably right Adr_0. I'll start looking for an alternative.


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## Benn

Cheers for that guys, sorry for dropping in on your thread Coops..


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## CoopsOz

No need for apologies Benn, the more questions asked the more opportunity for the brains trust to chime in.


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## boybrewer

You could always put some lids under each leg to give it a more stable base for the legs to sit on .


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## CoopsOz

Anyone bought any of these before? Any chance you could measure external diameter for me? I'm thinking I may have cut my overflow hole a little prematurely.


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## Matplat

The OD of 1/2" pipe is a standard.... should be 21.3mm


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## takai

CoopsOz said:


> Yeah, you are probably right Adr_0. I'll start looking for an alternative.


Good alternative are the stainless steel trivets from Ikea.

Also have some of those tube fittings, will check dia when i head to the garage later today.


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## Adr_0

I'm 98% sure that a 22mm hole will be a snug fit for those bad-boys, so 21.something sounds spot on.


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## CoopsOz

Thanks gents. I jagged it with my 22mm chassis punch.[emoji3]


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## Matplat

This was my attempt at slotting the bigW pot today. I started off doing extra half slots around the inner circle but it all started getting a bit too flexy while i was doing it so i stopped. I also realised that they weren't really required if i was trying to keep an even flow rate across the entire grain bed. 

By splitting the slots into an inner and outer ring i managed to retain most of the structural rigidity in the base, it still feels solid enough that i wont have any qualms when using the potato masher!

Cleaning up all the burrs was a pain in the backside, even going over the slots on the inside didn't get them all off. The close up shows all the bits still left behind.

I made the mistake of using an old grinding disc to clean up a few of the slots before i realised and put the new cut off disc back on. Hopefully i took off any contamination but only time will tell. At least its only $20 for a new one!


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## CoopsOz

Looks good. I regret not cutting more slots but like you say, it's only $20 to have another go. Have you got anymore pics of your build?


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## Matplat

Not yet, my pot is at work awaiting welding... i will be sure to post some up when it is complete.... which should be Monday or Tuesday. I've got the k-mart camping mat ready to go for insulation, 2400W element and LBP knock-off with plumbing. Going to use my stc-1000 for temp control but may step up to a PID controller later on.....


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## Adr_0

By the way, if you run into trouble with the stainless, this combination works a treat:
http://www.bunnings.com.au/cigweld-15g-acid-core-soft-silver-solder_p5914026
http://www.bunnings.com.au/bakers-250ml-solder-fluid_p5060192
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1DVCJ_enAU621AU621&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=crescent%20soldering%20iron

80W is fine for most thin stuff but feel free to go higher.

I got all of the above from Mitre 10. The Crescent irons are pretty good, but you might chew threw tips with the stupidly corrosive flux.

Paint a bit on, let it sit, then start heating it up and you shouldn't have any dramas. Don't breathe it in or get it in your eyes.


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## Matplat

Adr_0 said:


> By the way, if you run into trouble with the stainless, this combination works a treat:
> http://www.bunnings.com.au/cigweld-15g-acid-core-soft-silver-solder_p5914026
> http://www.bunnings.com.au/bakers-250ml-solder-fluid_p5060192
> https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1DVCJ_enAU621AU621&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=crescent%20soldering%20iron
> 
> 80W is fine for most thin stuff but feel free to go higher.
> 
> I got all of the above from Mitre 10. The Crescent irons are pretty good, but you might chew threw tips with the stupidly corrosive flux.
> 
> Paint a bit on, let it sit, then start heating it up and you shouldn't have any dramas. Don't breathe it in or get it in your eyes.


Do you mean to solder instead of weld the stainless? I've got that solder fluid and a blow torch already...


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## Adr_0

Matplat said:


> Do you mean to solder instead of weld the stainless? I've got that solder fluid and a blow torch already...


MAPP fuel is too hot for the flux you use to solder stainless, but it's good for brazing aluminium 
Standard propane is best, but you can still obviously crust up the flux and you won't make a join. So you still have to be careful to make sure you keep your distance and be patient. 

If the metals you will join are only a couple of mm you can use a soldering iron successfully and I highly recommend trying this.


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## takai

Measured the pipe fitting on my way out this morning, 22mm might be a bit generous:


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## Matplat

Was that an ebay special?

The 1/2" bsp sockets I got off ebay were a long way from standard dimensions also....


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## CoopsOz

Guess I'll just have to wait and see.


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## TheWiggman

Major diameter of 1/2" BSP is 20.95mm. What you have there is about 20.22mm, so it's a bit undersize. Nothing an o-ring or washer can't fix.


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## takai

If it is for the overflow pipe it doesnt matter much if it leaks, so long as the hole isn't big enough to pass grain through


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## Benn

With a 1 vessel set up, is there an advantage other than less mess of a malt pipe (eg. Big W pot) over a bag or basket for containing the grain? Is there a real need to sparge with a 1V recirculating rig?


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## Matplat

I am of the understanding that, as the wort is being constantly filtered, you get clearer wort with less trub.... also with a reciculating system, you have a much more even temperature through the grain bed.

You probably could do a no-sparge, but you may sacrifice a few efficiency points.


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## Benn

Thanks Matplat,
...I gotta stop procrastinating and start building.


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## husky

Benn said:


> With a 1 vessel set up, is there an advantage other than less mess of a malt pipe (eg. Big W pot) over a bag or basket for containing the grain? Is there a real need to sparge with a 1V recirculating rig?


The inner basket if removed without disturbing the grain bed after recirculation will leave a clearer wort, this is nice but I don't know it makes much difference to the brew. I prefer to no sparge so at the end of recirc you carefully remove the pot and grain, sit it in a bucket and collect the run off for yeast starters. Gives you the best chance of a clear wort and also good for growing yeasties. Just add a bit more grain in the mash of you need the extra points a sparge will give you.


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## CoopsOz

Went to the LHBS today with the intention of getting some yeast but my addiction got the better of me. I walked out with a new malt pipe that should alleviate any grain limits I may have had with the big w pot. It's too big for my current boiler so it will probably go on the shelf with all my other brew gear until I find a different outer pot.


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## Matplat

That looks like it would be good for doing double batches....

Managed to get my kettle welded yesterday so now it looks a bit like this:


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## Matplat

Assembly takes a shit load longer when your hole saw arbor breaks, and then your file breaks too. Mainly need to terminate the heater and finish the stc-1000 assembly, then insulate, clean then brew!


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## CoopsOz

Looks great Matplat. How much was the element and where did you get it from? I'm thinking I may need to upgrade mine.


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## Matplat

Its the 2400w element from stove connection in sydney. $36 delivered. I had to open up my 1" bsp parallel socket using a tapered tap to get it to fit though


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## Matplat

Finished assembly today and did a 'dry' run with 20l of water. Managed to heat the water from 20-50deg in about 20mins before fatherly responsibilities pulled me away. i wasnt timing super accurately as in, i looked at the clock now and then... but seemed pretty quick so im pleased! The cheap ebay silicon hose that i bought is absolute shit. It kinks and collapses all the time but it will have to do for now... it works if you squint and hold your left bollock. No leaks and i didn't trip the circuit breakers so I'm pretty happy ☺ wheat beer coming up tomorrow night


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## Matplat

So I completed the first brew last night with great success! However I did learn a few things, principally that cheap ebay pumps are just that, and you shouldn't expect too much. It was fine at mash temps but once I hit the boil it complained and I had to turn it off.

I was pleased with ramp times however during the mash, the temp fluctuated a little more than I would have liked, hopefully insulating the vessel will improve this. It was overshooting by about 0.5-0.6 each time the element turned on.

2400W seems to be plenty of power for this size of vessel, I'm glad I didn't get carried away and go for 3600W. The attached photo shows the boil and this is without insulation.

Cleaning now takes a bit longer than before, but I was all washed up with a cube of wort after 4 hours, and that included bottling my previous batch at the same time.

I thought I had dealt with trub before when completing extract boils, apparently I was mistaken..... need to get a better pump so I can whirlpool properly to separate...

With the slots in my malt pipe, as shown above, I achieved a flow of approx 3-4L/min through the grain bed


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## Fylp

I have almost the same set up and quit the pump after mashing. Also, the silicone hoses will kink when hot. I put a few stainless elbows in to stop it.


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## flocculated

Hey Matplat, thanks for sharing your experience. I'm thinking of doing something similar. Is the pot you used one of the eBay 56L pots, something like this?

If so, how do you (or others) rate it? Would it be worth spending a little more if you could?


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## Matplat

Yep that is the exact one. Basically you get what you pay for, it is made from either 0.5 or 0.7mm stainless and none of the welds are finished, however they are extremely neat fusion welds.

I'm not dissappointed with it, for my level of brewing it is fine. It is a bit flimsy and if money weren't a concern I probably would spend more, but in terms of functionality vs cost it's a winner.


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## flocculated

Good to know. I could probably splash out and get one of the ~$160 ones, like this or this, but if I can save a hundred bucks for something else, that would be my preference. Worse would be if I get the cheap one and have to replace it in 12 months.


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## Matplat

Yeah I can't speak for the longevity of it as I have only done one brew, but I can't see any reason as to why it would fail... I would save some cash to spend elsewhere.


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## Fylp

I have the same one and it has been going for a year. When I first added my ball valve it seemed a bit flimsy so I whacked in an extra washer each side to stabilise it. I reckon I'll get a fair few years out of it. But I wouldn't trust the handles with it full.


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## dannymars

Does anyone use a heat exchanger with their 1V setup? rather that an element actually in the pot?


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## crowmanz

How would you get a rolling boil with just a heat exchanger and no element in the pot?

I've seen someone post a 1V+herms design, don't remember seeing the final thing though.


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## Matplat

If you use a steam generator to pump super-heated steam through an exchanger you will get a rolling boil....

I think it would defeat the purpose of a 1v system though, i.e. small, simple and cheap.


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## Matplat

Just calculated efficiency after taking my OG reading last night, and got approx 75-80%.... stoked!


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## Matplat

However rust has taken residence around my welds and at the cut faces of all my slots. And that is even using fresh cutting disks... gonna pickle that shit this weekend...


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## booargy

dannymars said:


> Does anyone use a heat exchanger with their 1V setup? rather that an element actually in the pot?


I am building a system like this using a RIMS setup. In a week or two I will know how it works. Have also thought of a tube and shell heat exchanger with oil instead of steam but I can't find the right pump for the right price. My system is a 100l 2v with 2 3kw elements if it is not enough power I have a 3rd element. But from tests I get a good boil off rate. Main problem is keeping the elements clear of break.


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## dannymars

I don't boil using a heat exchanger! Just use it to re-circ during the mash... The whole set up is on a gas burner for boiling.... 
I found it too hard to get the temp right with gas... 

I have a large 3v set up, so I just borrow the herms for small batches on a 1v (with bigW malt pipe etc)...


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## CoopsOz

Some bits and pieces arrived today. Anyone got any advice as to how long I should cut my overflow down to? It sits proud of the big w pot atm, would an inch below the lip suffice?


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## Matplat

I don't quite understand the concept of the overflow, so this may not make any sense. Surely you are limited by the holes in the side of the pot? your overflow would have to be lower than them wouldn't it? If so I wouldn't be going any lower than that...


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## CoopsOz

Yeah Matplat, that's what I figure as well. My understanding with the overflow is that if everything is going well it isn't needed. I think it is just insurance if the grain bed gets too compacted during the recirc then the wort has somewhere to go. I suspect the holes on the side would probably be sufficient but I didn't think about that when I cut the centre hole.


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