# How Far Can A Perth Pub Go To Stop You From Having A Beer



## maxmcbain (4/3/11)

My brother in-law was told If you have sleeve tattoos you can't drink at the Craftsman unless you cover them up so he had to go buy a long sleeve shirt so he could meet his mate for a pint.
Me personally I would have just walked away and drunk somewhere else.
I cant see how a pub can discriminate against you because you have tattoos. But I know if you made a complaint they would use the line "Management reserves the right to refuse entry to anyone"


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## sinkas (4/3/11)

what is the craftsman?


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## maxmcbain (4/3/11)

New pub at the Westfield Carousel Shopping Centre replaced the old Foundry


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## beerbrewer76543 (4/3/11)

The Craftsman

It's the old Foundry at Carousel in Cannington

Looks like a place for wankers to hang out and compare hair styling products


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## Pennywise (4/3/11)

maxmcbain said:


> "Management reserves the right to refuse entry to anyone"



Effin' shits me when I see this at pubs. FFS, they let wankers in that glass people but god fobid anyone have tatt's or a ******* mohawk or be gothed out.

/rant


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## nathanR (4/3/11)

I have been kicked / asked to leave out of the foundry on a Thursday night went and purchased a new shirt an was still refused entry


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## brett mccluskey (4/3/11)

I'd think they're lining themselves up for a very big lawsuit from someone with lower arm ink.If i lived in that area i',d get a heap of mates together who had ink,dress very tidily,engage a few other people to come along too who didn't have ink and see what happened.A great test case for the state civil liberties organisation  If it's true,they're a bunch of wankers and not worth buying a beer from anyway


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## argon (4/3/11)

_"Management reserve the right to refuse entry to any given person at any given time"_... said that a few times in my day.

I once got bounced for wearing a particular type of sports shoes... nike shox. Got told people who wear them are trouble makers. "ok" i said. They let everyone else in. Security manager came out, saw i wasn't trouble then took me through the side entrance.

Sometimes it's just a test.


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## Nick JD (4/3/11)

I've been refused entry from a pub for being indescribably goodlooking.


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## outbreak (4/3/11)

My friend was refused entry to Malt Supper Club for the same reason.... But they let football jocks with mullets and wearing those stupid white pointy tipped shoes in... My friend is the most non-violent nice person you would ever meet. 
Pretty sure that Bogan cesspool Botanica has the same rules... 

Pubs and clubs are shit in Perth anyway (excluding craft beer venues..).


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## Sydneybrewer (4/3/11)

i would only ever ban someone from a club if they were wearing the 'lad' suit as follows:
nike dry fit cap, nautica polo shirt, ccc trackpants, and nike tn/shox shoes.


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## Pollux (4/3/11)

mmmmm, Looks like I won't be going there anytime soon......


Probably wouldn't even help that mine is a hop piece...


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## brett mccluskey (4/3/11)

I've just sent an e-mail to Civil Liberties Australia regarding the matter,and recieved confirmation of such.As someone who's had ink for over 30 years ,i've copped shit like this so many feckin' times i can't count them.Enough is enough,I'll keep people posted as to what their reply is,gonna be interesting


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## Pollux (4/3/11)

Just thought about something, I could so play with these rules when I get my other sleeve done.......They don't mention scarifications do they???


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## pbrosnan (4/3/11)

Once upon a time the only people with tattoos were probably trouble. This has changed a lot but it seems that for some reason this pub has some pre-1990 attitudes. I'd give them a lecture and then go elsewhere and make it my mission to get the topic of this pub's crap attitude into every possible conversation. Anyway, given that it's in real bogan country I don't see how they can make a quid refusing entry to people with tattoos. Maybe standing on principle isn't worth it when you really want a drink?


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## jzani (4/3/11)

Me and my Irish stepfather were not allowed in to an Irish bar in Perth a few years ago over footwear.

He argued the toss (he's a solicitor) and they let us in, think we were the only two in the place who had ever been to Ireland.

Irish pub with a dress code?? Never seen it in Ireland.


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## Superoo (4/3/11)

I'd say feck em' too

I know you want to prove they are wrong (and they are), and go for it

but i wouldnt reward the bastards by spending any of my hard earned in there...


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## Paul H (4/3/11)

I was once refused entry to a Toowoomba nightclub & was told that was too drunk to come in. I agreed with the bouncer & replied "I wouldn't f#$ken come here if I was sober".

Cheers

Paul


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## keifer33 (4/3/11)

I would just scrap the place all togwthet. Try and show the bouncer up with logic and I'm sure they will listen.


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## DanRayner (4/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> I've been refused entry from a pub for being indescribably goodlooking.



BAHAHAHA! That's gold 

I worked for many years as a doorman/doorhost/crowd marshall/security/bouncer/whatever.

I don't think I ever knocked anyone back saying they had tatts. That is just asking for trouble/arguments

However, if they had tatts, missing teeth, ratty hair, torn jeans and anything that resembled biker wear I would definitely but *kindly* refuse entry on the torn jeans.

If a bloke walked up with the coolest looking ink sleeve and a crazily-tall purple mohawk and the rest of the demeanor and outfit said he would be a relaxed customer then sure, let the guy in. Most people fitting this description are pretty chilled.

It's all about seeing the whole package and making the judgement - and what sort of place the owners want it to be.

And if a bunch of cocky, muscle-bound young guys walk up, well-dressed(ish) but wearing an assortment of tight t-shirts bought from Cotton-On stating that they played for some non-existant US "varsity" team and most of them sporting the twatty fauxhawk (ending in a shitty little mullet) that David Beckam introduced in 2000 and then hastily abandoned waaaaay back in 2001 I would find any excuse not to let twats like them in - 9 times out of 10 they have a few drinks and then get agressive toward anything that looks at them - they are just too much work.

"Management reserving the right to refuse entry" is all that doormen have to prevent issues with arseholes and drunks - there doesn't even need to be a sign stating this because it's a private establishment and there is no law stating that a potential patron must be let in. The places I worked at had very few fights and issues and that was due to doormen being polite, friendly and courteous when patrons arrive, helping people whenever they required it and not letting any old tool in.

EDIT: Maxmcbain - those last seven words do not refer to you and your brother-in-law; I'm sure the doorman was being an idiot when he refused your brother-in-law entry


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## mika (4/3/11)

If you'd actually been into the craftsman before hand, you wouldn't have bothered buying a shirt to get into the place.
I thought the price of beer, the chance of getting glassed, the horrible service and the lack lustre food was keeping most people out of WA pubs anyway.

Just a heads up for anyone visiting, if you sit in the 'outdoor' area, they need a credit card and/or drivers licence before they'll do you table service. Not prepared to hand those over, you've got to order at the bar, though the waiters will still bring you the food when it's ready.


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## pbrosnan (4/3/11)

mika said:


> If you'd actually been into the craftsman before hand, you wouldn't have bothered buying a shirt to get into the place.
> I thought the price of beer, the chance of getting glassed, the horrible service and the lack lustre food was keeping most people out of WA pubs anyway.
> 
> Just a heads up for anyone visiting, if you sit in the 'outdoor' area, they need a credit card and/or drivers licence before they'll do you table service. Not prepared to hand those over, you've got to order at the bar, though the waiters will still bring you the food when it's ready.


Gosh they have a high opinion of their patrons. Sassellars do table service and all they require is that you pay for the drinks once you receive them. Mind you in their outdoor area you'd have to handle a 30 foot drop from the balcony if you wanted to do a runner.


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## sinkas (4/3/11)

argon said:


> _"Management reserve the right to refuse entry to any given person at any given time"_... said that a few times in my day.
> 
> I once got bounced for wearing a particular type of sports shoes... nike shox. Got told people who wear them are trouble makers. "ok" i said. They let everyone else in. Security manager came out, saw i wasn't trouble then took me through the side entrance.
> 
> Sometimes it's just a test.




I think you will find they were the fashion police


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## Shed101 (4/3/11)

I remember a small town stoush started at my local in sleepy Lincolnshire.

A gentleman with some kind of brain damage that caused him to slur his speech tried to buy a beer one afternoon in an extremely nice pub (which happened to be owned and managed by an A-grade tosspot).

He was refused because he the owner said he was half cut.

Remonstration lead to him being booted out.

Landlord of a rival pub heard about the story, went to the local paper and the whole story got aired, including an offer from landlord #2 for the gentleman to come for free drinks at his pub anytime.

Anyways...


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## bum (4/3/11)

Shed101 said:


> Landlord of a rival pub heard about the story, went to the local paper and the whole story got aired, including an offer from landlord #2 for the gentleman to come for free drinks at his pub anytime.


Publican 1 is an A-grade tosspot but publican 2 emerges a top bloke and not a mercenary douche? Funny old world, hey?


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## gone_fishing_ (4/3/11)

I never get into any "knobby" nightclubs. I don't have tattoos but must be very ugly 8)

GF


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## Sinfathisar (4/3/11)

maxmcbain said:


> My brother in-law was told If you have sleeve tattoos you can't drink at the Craftsman unless you cover them up so he had to go buy a long sleeve shirt so he could meet his mate for a pint.
> Me personally I would have just walked away and drunk somewhere else.
> I cant see how a pub can discriminate against you because you have tattoos. But I know if you made a complaint they would use the line "Management reserves the right to refuse entry to anyone"




Sounds like a gender bias also - my daughter has a sleeve of her fav film - would she be allowed in on basis of gender or excluded on the basis of her tatt?


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## manticle (4/3/11)

Tits or tatts eh?


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## bconnery (4/3/11)

Sinfathisar said:


> Sounds like a gender bias also - my daughter has a sleeve of her fav film - would she be allowed in on basis of gender or excluded on the basis of her tatt?


Depends on what her favourite film is maybe? 

Jokes aside, given the prevalence of tatts these days a pub that refused entry on this is really starting to limit their customer base...

I know some extremely nice and non violent people who have tatts (I was going to say ink to not reuse the same term but ink always feels to me like a term you should only be able to use if you have one, I don't know if it is regarded that way but it just seems odd for me to type...)


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## manticle (4/3/11)

mika said:


> If you'd actually been into the craftsman before hand, you wouldn't have bothered buying a shirt to get into the place.
> I thought the price of beer, the chance of getting glassed, the horrible service and the lack lustre food was keeping most people out of WA pubs anyway.
> 
> Just a heads up for anyone visiting, if you sit in the 'outdoor' area, they need a credit card and/or drivers licence before they'll do you table service. Not prepared to hand those over, you've got to order at the bar, though the waiters will still bring you the food when it's ready.



I though the esplanade hotel was bad not letting me in with my work boots due to the prevalence of glassings in Melbourne nightspots. Said pub still serves beer in glass, including bottles.

A credit card for table service means I know where not to visit if I come to WA.


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## Lecterfan (4/3/11)

I was going to leave it alone but I've had a few beers now...

Speaking as someone who has two sleeves (although the right arm is only %80 forearm and %100 upper arm) I think the discrimination/civil liberties issue is a bit rich.

Yes, when I was working and had shirt and tie I would get treated better than I do when I am in flannel or heavy metal t-shirt, but when working in a people-focussed role for long enough that makes sense. A great deal of the people that look like me are rude, uneducated dickheads. 

True discrimination occurs based on factors that a person has no control over - gender, skin colour, facial features, etc.

I chose to get tattooed and as such, although it often shits me to tears, I have to live with the consequences.

Has there been discrimination? Yes, of a sort. Is it unethical to judge someone based on preconceived notions? Yes, but that doesn't prevent us all from doing it naturally as part of our evolutionary legacy.

I suppose, as always, I am saying I agree with you all - but hell, aren't we lucky we aren't in Libya?


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## kelbygreen (4/3/11)

I have been refused entry to a pub when I was wearing thongs, I can understand why as a OH&S issue so it didnt bother me untill 5 women walked threw the door with thongs on and none got refused entry. Have also been refused entry in the valley in brisbane coz I had the wrong shoes??? they was the same as all my mates (skate shoes) just a different colour. went and bought a black pair and was allowed in.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (4/3/11)

Ink is cool , even old ink like mine.
Ummmm mum still dont like it ! May be a job for her as a door person. Get her out of the sweat shop making BIAB bags .

GB


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## kelbygreen (4/3/11)

lol. think of the BIAB's GB what would they do without the quality bags haha.


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## brett mccluskey (4/3/11)

Lecterfan said:


> I was going to leave it alone but I've had a few beers now...
> 
> Speaking as someone who has two sleeves (although the right arm is only %80 forearm and %100 upper arm) I think the discrimination/civil liberties issue is a bit rich.
> 
> ...


Completely agree,except for a couple of points.A great deal of people who wear suits and ties are rude,uneducated dickheads too, with or without ink,and discrimination occurs for reasons apart from race,religion,gender,skin colour,etc.I'm thinking of people who live in 'certain' suburbs that are judged by some to be 'lower class'and/or 'criminal breeding grounds'.I don't consider the person who pre-judges me or anyone else with ink ,to be any different than the person who pre-judges Koories, or any other minoritygroup.Discrimination is discrimination,and it occurs because people who practice it are uneducated themselves.By that, I mean little life experience,meeting people of all persuasions and getting to know them on a personal level.As someone who's copped this sort of shit,on and off, for many years,I learnt not to practice on other people what's been practiced on me. Discrimination only happens if we,personally, allow ourselves to practice it.Is it natural evolutionary legacy? Not in my opinion.Watch how kids play together and get along,no matter what religion,race,etc.It seems to me that shit only happens when bigoted adults indoctrinate them with their own biases.  Watch out for those K+K brewers!! We all know what they're like!


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## lagers44 (4/3/11)

Read about this a few weeks back about a bondi pub, an obvious plot to keep the " lebanese look " out , keep the westy out of the posh Eastern suburbs.
I can see why establishments may want to keep trouble makers out but then trouble makers don't really fit a stereotype, all they end up doing is alienating a large part of the clientel.

It's a tricky line to walk as a bar owner or manager.

link

Thankfully I only have to vet my kids friends.........sorry mate your school uniform is dirty can't sit on the lounge.


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## Lecterfan (4/3/11)

:beer: 

Many excellent points in there. Some people here are pedantic about brewing terminology, I guess I just like to know that an argument has been fleshed out behind the scenes as well as in front.  You, good sir, have truly demonstrated that!

I have to say though, in 10 years working in social welfare and not-for-profit organisations that visual stereotypes DO form whether you want them to or not. 

There is a difference between the descriptive (what does happen) and the prescriptive (what _should_ happen) - and as you say, discrimination/prejudice is largely a learned behaviour that we develop as adults. The only reason I brought up evolutionary legacy (it is not an argument I resort to often or indeed entirely agree with) is that there are an overwhelming number of articles that use this theory (and, like natural selection it is just theory at the end of the day) as a reason for _why_ we develop the biases as adults. 

So I agree with you %100, it's not "natural" in the sense that it is already there, but our _predisposition towards developing biases_ is something to help reduce the cognitive workload. Much the same thing as learning to differentiate the difference between a bee and a fly and learning to ignore one and not the other.

F*ck I'm well and truly into my Friday night now haha. Please don't think I was having a go with my post, I was just commenting that there is a difference between discrimination against cosmetic appearance and genetic appearance, and that although it is not ethically permissable, there is a still an explanation behind the "why" even though we don't like it. Civil liberties is also part of a 10,000 word banger I'm working on so is a bit of a hot topic around these parts.

As for this one: "...A great deal of people who wear suits and ties are rude,uneducated dickheads too..." - yep, they are the worst of them. Social inequality and injustice isn't caused by the toothless tattooed welfare recipients, they are merely the product of it.

And this one: "...Watch out for those K+K brewers!! We all know what they're like!  ..." h34r: hee hee - you said that, not me.




edit: .........sorry mate your school uniform is dirty can't sit on the lounge. - gold.


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## gone_fishing_ (4/3/11)

Its a bit like we now get to eat Halal meat slaughtered by a practising muslim in Islamic approved premises?
gf


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## Aus_Rider_22 (4/3/11)

kelbygreen said:


> I have been refused entry to a pub when I was wearing thongs, I can understand why as a OH&S issue so it didnt bother me untill 5 women walked threw the door with thongs on and none got refused entry. Have also been refused entry in the valley in brisbane coz I had the wrong shoes??? they was the same as all my mates (skate shoes) just a different colour. went and bought a black pair and was allowed in.



It's ridiculous!

A local pub has a no thong after 7pm policy. I can understand as they have a pretty nice dining room just across from the bar and want to have a respectable dressing crowd. I went down one friday arvo for the raffles wearing thongs. I stayed a bit longer than I usually do and they had security start at 8. I went out for a smoke and went to come back in and was told I can't come in because of my thongs. At this time the 2nd security guard was checking IDs of a few girls, who I noticed had heels on. I wouldn't have usually questioned the bouncer but I had a few under me and I asked why I am not allowed in. Expecting the usual "dress-code" answer I was amazed when he said "for safety issues". I chuckled as I asked how the girls could be allowed in with unenclosed heels. He quickly realised how silly it was and just said "just the policy mate, sorry".

He's only doing his job as a security guard but if the pubs are going to restrict patrons entry because they believe the thongs are unsafe with glass then they SHOULD stop the ladies with similar footwear, IMO.


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## brett mccluskey (4/3/11)

:lol: Didn't think you were having a go in any way,a very well thought out and written description of the issue :beer: I remember reading somewhere not long ago about the 'evolutionary legacy' being a function of the brain, necessary during 'caveman' times,when it was imperative for survival to make snap judgements regarding 'safety' or 'danger' and this reaction still hangs in at times .And yes,i agree it does happen ,even though it shouldnt.But i also believe we're no longer in those days,and through education ,it's possible for people to change that way of thinking.Let's hope we can. :beer: I was only using the K+K comment as an example..Really


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## Bada Bing Brewery (4/3/11)

Warning - anonymous drunk psychologist weighing in. Its the only thing I can remember from 1st year psych degree = Fundamental attributional error explains pretty much whats going on. Social psychologists get very, very excitied about this stuff.
I personally excelled at tavernology 101 .......

Now were is that SCT1000 I need to wire up


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## Lecterfan (4/3/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Warning - anonymous drunk psychologist weighing in. Its the only thing I can remember from 1st year psych degree = Fundamental attributional error explains pretty much whats going on. Social psychologists get very, very excitied about this stuff.
> I personally excelled at tavernology 101 .......
> 
> Now were is that SCT1000 I need to wire up



:icon_cheers: 
Yep, that's why I gave up on psych and moved to post-structuralism and philosophy, got sick of the snappy names for descriptive phenomena haha. Cognitive dissonance is another good one -that explains why I left my last two jobs and have ended up where I am now hee hee. Nice one BBB! I'd never have remembered that!

Now where is Kant's Critique of Practical Reason I needed to deconstruct... h34r:


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## Banshee (4/3/11)

You got to ask yourself why do people get ink in the first place. For attention? Buggered if I would get ink. People with ink seem to attract trouble? Show offs? I dunno. They are the first thoughts that come to my mind and maybe the pub owner.


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## manticle (4/3/11)

Amazingly well articulated and thought out contribution there Banshee.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (4/3/11)

Lecterfan said:


> :icon_cheers:
> Yep, that's why I gave up on psych and moved to post-structuralism and philosophy, got sick of the snappy names for descriptive phenomena haha. Cognitive dissonance is another good one -that explains why I left my last two jobs and have ended up where I am now hee hee. Nice one BBB! I'd never have remembered that!
> 
> Now where is Kant's Critique of Practical Reason I needed to deconstruct... h34r:



Its the only thing I can remember, seriously ..... it was 22 yrs ago - amazing what crap we remember.
you went easy on me - you could have really slagged me as a logical positivist.....
Brew on lecterfan
cheers


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## jyo (4/3/11)

I know two Primary Teachers with clearly visible tattoos that, wait for it, teach small children. I know...shocking. 
If a pub can exclude someone based on physical appearance we are indeed in trouble. "Ah, sorry, that flesh tunnel exceeds our stipulated guidelines..." FFS
Cheers, John.


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## Lecterfan (4/3/11)

Banshee said:


> You got to ask yourself why do people get ink in the first place. For attention? Buggered if I would get ink. People with ink seem to attract trouble? Show offs? I dunno. They are the first thoughts that come to my mind and maybe the pub owner.



Actually I'm on facebook right now exploring the issue of autonomy, internalised social norms etc etc and other issues that lead to/include that question. If I'd continued with Law at Melbourne Uni when I was 18 instead of dropping out and joining a heavy metal band maybe I wouldn't look the way I do? Pretty safe bet...  



Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Its the only thing I can remember, seriously ..... it was 22 yrs ago - amazing what crap we remember.
> you went easy on me - you could have really slagged me as a logical positivist.....
> Brew on lecterfan
> cheers



I would NEVER attack a logical positivist who was prepared to admit they were one (and as such understands the paradigm they are in). It is only the _post-hoc ergot propter hoc_ empiricists I really have a problem with haha. Quantum Brewer had a hilarious cartoon recently: person A says "I though correlation implied causation until I did a statistics course", person B replies "so the course helped then?", person A "...I can't really say". (that's the gist anyway, very clever).

Sorry to OP for being so OT -but AHB can be a fantastic and fascinating place!


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## Bada Bing Brewery (4/3/11)

On a recent trip to Bali I was stopped at Immigration and asked why I didnt have a tattoo ..... They questioned my Australian passport.
Lecterfan - I admit to nothing ... all part of the training

And - Why am I not a beer god yet?


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## manticle (5/3/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> Its a bit like we now get to eat Halal meat slaughtered by a practising muslim in Islamic approved premises?
> gf



What is?


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## Lecterfan (5/3/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> And - Why am I not a beer god yet?




You don't talk enough rubbish in the non-brewing sections with the likes of me - simple.

6 years ago I almost moved to Geraldton - almost. Lived in Busselton for a while but domestic commitments called me back here, and here I have remained.

Does it matter to you that you are not a beer god? How does that make you feel? :lol:


edit: actually it must be really interesting where you are with what you do...I might have to pack away the snide comments and PM you again! Not the you could really answer the type of questions I'd love to know. I'll get back there one day...aaahhh the mackerel...


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## Bada Bing Brewery (5/3/11)

Lecterfan said:


> You don't talk enough rubbish in the non-brewing sections with the likes of me - simple.
> 
> 6 years ago I almost moved to Geraldton - almost. Lived in Busselton for a while but domestic commitments called me back here, and here I have remained.
> 
> Does it matter to you that you are not a beer god? How does that make you feel? :lol:



Current symptomology

Sleeplessness
Anhedonia
Increased alc consumption -gasp
feeling as if my airlock will never bubble again ....

Thank god for ssri's - maybe that could be an adjunct in my next brew instead of whirlfloc .....


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## bum (5/3/11)

manticle said:


> What is?


I had a similar question in mind.

Mine had more swearing in it but.

Seriously, gone_fisting, what on Earth are you talking about?


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## Lecterfan (5/3/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Thank god for ssri's - maybe that could be an adjunct in my next brew instead of whirlfloc .....




:lol: :lol: :lol: 

They pick you up but don't settle out without finings though.


To be honest, as drunk as I am I won't continue on in case of upsetting someone who has experienced priapism (I find a good dose of cloz in secondary will cure what ails ya)...ooh, maybe I pushed the limits of good taste there.

I can see myself retracting and aplogising for that one in the morning - I blame my need to impress perceived peers on the inability for me to resolve my Ericksonian identity crisis...or something


editsenillg


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## rotten (5/3/11)

Banshee said:


> You got to ask yourself why do people get ink in the first place. For attention? Buggered if I would get ink. People with ink seem to attract trouble? Show offs? I dunno. They are the first thoughts that come to my mind and maybe the pub owner.



Are you for real?
I waited countless years before getting my first one, will take another two to finish that sleeve off. I work hard so I can afford to get them in the first place. Pubs have discriminatred against me yes, nothing a few common manners or courtesies can't address though.


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## speedie (5/3/11)

without being rude what does it feel like being taken through the side enterance? B)


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## speedie (5/3/11)

without being rude what does it feel like being taken through the side enterance? B)


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## azrebb (5/3/11)

rotten said:


> Are you for real?
> I waited countless years before getting my first one, will take another two to finish that sleeve off. I work hard so I can afford to get them in the first place. Pubs have discriminatred against me yes, nothing a few common manners or courtesies can't address though.



I started with ones people couldn't see. Now, they're in places people can see (not even many yet). Not to impress, but for me, why I(we) are discriminated against for something less disgusting than some hipsters hair (or fixy pushie) confuses me...

I'm going to end with sleeves, and I'm going to drink good beer. If one place denies, time to move onto the next.

Beer on brothers, beer on.


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## Zizzle (5/3/11)

After a few years in the US the whole culture of refusing entry to establishments is quite jarring when I'm back in Australia and need to run the gauntlet of dickhead bouncers just to give them my money. Do I have the right shoes, shirt, and hair to give this publican my money? Will the bloated roid raging bouncer just not like me?

It's interesting in NYC there are whole swaths of bars dedicated to attracting people with sleeve tatoos. Given these are mostly skinny trust fund hipsters, but hey they have cash.

Of the hundreds of pubs, I can think of only one that had a bouncer: DBA in the East Village. And he was only on the door Fri/Sat nights. A skinny english bloke who looked like a roadie for band and was always quick with a joke and didn't ID me to often.

I think it's a massive cultural difference. Aussies are quick to pass judgment on looks. Yanks are just keen to make a buck and don't really give a shit about you, least of all what you look like. You get used to mixing with or ignoring all different types.

At the start of last year I was out in Oz with some mates and after dinner we decided on a quick beer. It was summer. I had thongs on so was refused entry. A concept that had become foreign to me. My friends reaction was to pull some stunt sneaking some shoes back out for me. My reaction was to want to not want to give the dickheads my money, and to go somewhere else. No one could understand the concept and thought I was being silly.


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## Pollux (5/3/11)

Banshee said:


> You got to ask yourself why do people get ink in the first place. For attention? Buggered if I would get ink. People with ink seem to attract trouble? Show offs? I dunno. They are the first thoughts that come to my mind and maybe the pub owner.



Wow, I hope to hell you don't end up in the ward where my wife works as a Registered Nurse.....She is at a point of starting to run out of places to put ink (although her sleeves are still bare).

I absolutely love people who make judgements based entirely on appearance. I say look at how the person is walking, their facial expressions, this is a better indicator of if you are likely to end up with trouble in your bar or not (I've been in the front line of hospitality for nigh on 10 years now, I can pick trouble makers from a mile off, regardless of how they look). 

Misconceptions about those with ink run rampant. No, we are not all bikies, no don't all walk around looking to start fights on a Friday night. Trust me, heavily modded people are usually the ones sitting off to the side in a pub relaxing with mates, we've spent too much money on our skin to risk some tosspot cock sticking a broken beer bottle into us. Yes, everyone gets ink for different reasons, some people get it to look cool, some get the same tat their mates have, others get pieces that symbolise something significant in their life, some of us just love the sensation of the needle (I fit into the last two categories)....


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## Nick JD (5/3/11)

Pubs restrict certain types of people because the majority of their patrons are not that type of person (are not looking for that type of person to sleep with or befriend). 

This is how it works (for the "meatmarket" pubs especially):

Hot women attract many nervous, booze-guzzling men. Let all the hot women in you can. The majority of single, hot women want a wealthy partner. 

Wealthy men are not usually tattooed on their forearms (sorry, but it's true). 

Hot women walk in, see bar is full of tattooed men and leave. 

Booze-guzzling men don't go there.

Bar goes broke.

BTW - it's these "meatmarket" pubs that have all the violence. It's vented sexual tension from guys who didn't score.

If you only go to "Cheers" style, old drunk fart bars, then none of this applies. They exist on the retirment funds of losers.


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

bum said:


> I had a similar question in mind.
> 
> Mine had more swearing in it but.
> 
> Seriously, gone_fisting, what on Earth are you talking about?


+1 Allah Akbah  



Pollux said:


> Wow, I hope to hell you don't end up in the ward where my wife works as a Registered Nurse.....She is at a point of starting to run out of places to put ink (although her sleeves are still bare).
> 
> I absolutely love people who make judgements based entirely on appearance. I say look at how the person is walking, their facial expressions, this is a better indicator of if you are likely to end up with trouble in your bar or not (I've been in the front line of hospitality for nigh on 10 years now, I can pick trouble makers from a mile off, regardless of how they look).
> 
> Misconceptions about those with ink run rampant. No, we are not all bikies, no don't all walk around looking to start fights on a Friday night. Trust me, heavily modded people are usually the ones sitting off to the side in a pub relaxing with mates, we've spent too much money on our skin to risk some tosspot cock sticking a broken beer bottle into us. Yes, everyone gets ink for different reasons, some people get it to look cool, some get the same tat their mates have, others get pieces that symbolise something significant in their life, some of us just love the sensation of the needle (I fit into the last two categories)....


+1 The only difference between people with tattoos and people without,is people with ink DON'T CARE if you don't have them


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## Sinfathisar (5/3/11)

This discussion, and many of the well-reasoned responses, is destroying the notion that beer drinkers are yobs :lol: 

Banshee? I got my tatt to celebrate my first Masters degree, it was a particularly significant, and appropriate, and I have no regrets.

"The only difference between people with tattoos and people without is people with ink DON'T CARE if you don't have them  " ^^^^^5s FTW!


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/3/11)

I always find that if your girlfriend/partner is blonde with nice tits, you can get in anyware.  

I wear my work boots with jeans and a t-shirt when out with the missus, and never have trouble getting in, they just open the door and let you in past the single guys..


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## goomboogo (5/3/11)

I'm still waiting to find out what Halal meat has to do with pubs and tattoos.


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## jackson (5/3/11)

Is this the womens day forum? Half you guys with tatts are a bunch of
Girls go cry on the womens day site or man up. Who cares if some wanky
Shopping centre pub won't let you in. That's been happening to men for
all different reason for years.
Have a beer, suck it up & grow a set.


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## Margrethe (5/3/11)

Wow- you're just a ray of frickin' sunshine aren't you Jackson? 

Pubs can discriminate all they want because they own the premises, and they're the ones whose liquor licences get pulled, they're the ones who get nice big fines, and they're the ones who get tight as restrictions on their serving limits when dickheads go glassing, fighting and all that kind of macho bullshit. 

If I owned a club/pub (and I plan to one day) I wouldn't necessarily be banning people with full arm ink (I can say that- I'm an inked chick *grin*) but I'd certainly have standards that were EQUAL- not just for fellas- but for chicks too. To protect my licences, and my patrons. 

I'd let almost all you lot in of course- one free beer per new customer you bring in


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

jackson said:


> Is this the womens day forum? Half you guys with tatts are a bunch of
> Girls go cry on the womens day site or man up. Who cares if some wanky
> Shopping centre pub won't let you in. That's been happening to men for
> all different reason for years.
> Have a beer, suck it up & grow a set.


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

Margrethe said:


> Wow- you're just a ray of frickin' sunshine aren't you Jackson?
> 
> Pubs can discriminate all they want because they own the premises, and they're the ones whose liquor licences get pulled, they're the ones who get nice big fines, and they're the ones who get tight as restrictions on their serving limits when dickheads go glassing, fighting and all that kind of macho bullshit.
> 
> ...


Let us know when you open your pub,I'll be there with bells on :super:


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## sinkas (5/3/11)

There is goign to be alot of regretful 40 and 50 year olds in 20 or 30 years, as the current bunch of overtly tatooed young people begin to see sense

tatoos hav all the street cred of a pink poloshirt


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/3/11)

sinkas said:


> There is goign to be alot of regretful 40 and 50 year olds in 20 or 30 years, as the current bunch of overtly tatooed young people begin to see sense
> 
> tatoos hav all the street cred of a pink poloshirt


Even a pink polo looks good with tatts :beerbang: 
Gb


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Even a pink polo looks good with tatts :beerbang:
> Gb


 :super:


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## yardy (5/3/11)

Lecterfan said:


> *A great deal of the people that look like me are rude, uneducated dickheads. *






Nick JD said:


> *Wealthy men are not usually tattooed on their forearms (sorry, but it's true).
> 
> Hot women walk in, see bar is full of tattooed men and leave.
> 
> If you only go to "Cheers" style, old drunk fart bars, then none of this applies. They exist on the retirment funds of losers.*




generalising a bit aren't we ?

sounds like you got your ink for the wrong reason lecter.

retired losers having a beer in 'Cheers' style bars ?
i'm sure the retired blokes that visit here will have a different opinion, we'll revisit this post when nick is 65 and see where he's at, squatting under a bridge on the banks of the fitzroy or enjoying a beer with some mates in a bar.

cheers


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

sinkas said:


> There is goign to be alot of regretful 40 and 50 year olds in 20 or 30 years, as the current bunch of overtly tatooed young people begin to see sense
> 
> tatoos hav all the street cred of a pink poloshirt


I don't need 'street cred' .Thats for tossers.I'm confident enough in my sexuality and personality to wear anything i want and not worry about wankers and what they think :kooi:


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## Lecterfan (5/3/11)

yardy said:


> sounds like you got your ink for the wrong reason lecter.



Sorry Yardy, I'll try to do better next time.


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## yardy (5/3/11)

Lecterfan said:


> Sorry Yardy, I'll try to do better next time.




good, i'll be keeping an eye on you lec.


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## michael_aussie (5/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> Pubs restrict certain types of people because the majority of their patrons are not that type of person (are not looking for that type of person to sleep with or befriend).
> This is how it works (for the "meatmarket" pubs especially):
> Hot women attract many nervous, booze-guzzling men. Let all the hot women in you can. The majority of single, hot women want a wealthy partner.
> Wealthy men are not usually tattooed on their forearms (sorry, but it's true).
> ...


I love it when a complex world is explained in a paragraph.

nic = gone_fisting == love it!!!


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## Banshee (5/3/11)

rotten said:


> Are you for real?
> I waited countless years before getting my first one, will take another two to finish that sleeve off. I work hard so I can afford to get them in the first place. Pubs have discriminatred against me yes, nothing a few common manners or courtesies can't address though.



Sure am. 
Why not get large prints of your fav's and pin em up on your bedroom wall. Or is that what young tennage kids do until old enough to transfer them to the body?
How do you appreciate a tattoo you get on your back or other places you can not see unless you have a mirror in front and behind you?


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## Spartan 117 (5/3/11)

juzzy said:


> Irish pub with a dress code?? Never seen it in Ireland.




Clearly you've never been to Dublin  . been told by bouncers there that I can't get into a pub because he didn't like my socks !!! Some bouncers (not all, most are pretty tops) just seem to go on power trips because it's the only thing that keeps them happy in their sad little existence. 

I don't have a problem with a dress code as a whole, but stupid things like not allowing people with tatts, piercings etc. is just plain stupid. I suppose it's the whole "don't judge a book by it's cover" concept that these people lack.

Aaron


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## bum (5/3/11)

Spartan 117 said:


> I suppose it's the whole "don't judge a book by it's cover" concept that these people lack.


I reckon that platitude lost all relevance once books all stopped being leather-bound. You actually can judge many types of book with reasonable accuracy through their covers these days.

No reason why socio-economic indicators might not do the same in certain circumstances.

In relation to tatts, for instance, let us consider the lower-back butterfly...


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## Spartan 117 (5/3/11)

bum said:


> I reckon that platitude lost all relevance once books all stopped being leather-bound. You actually can judge many types of book with reasonable accuracy through their covers these days.
> 
> No reason why socio-economic indicators might not do the same in certain circumstances.
> 
> In relation to tatts, for instance, let us consider the lower-back butterfly...




:super: WIN!!!!!


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

Banshee said:


> Sure am.
> Why not get large prints of your fav's and pin em up on your bedroom wall. Or is that what young tennage kids do until old enough to transfer them to the body?
> How do you appreciate a tattoo you get on your back or other places you can not see unless you have a mirror in front and behind you?


As the old saying goes..If I have to explain it to you,you'd never understand  



Spartan 117 said:


> :super: WIN!!!!!


A 'technician' who works in a bowling alley' :unsure: Says it feckin' all :drinks:


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## Spartan 117 (5/3/11)

toper1 said:


> A 'technician' who works in a bowling alley' :unsure: Says it feckin' all :drinks:




well pin monkey would probably be more accurate, or synthetic organic chemist. :icon_chickcheers:


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## brett mccluskey (5/3/11)

Spartan 117 said:


> well pin monkey would probably be more accurate, or synthetic organic chemist. :icon_chickcheers:


 :beer:


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## thedragon (5/3/11)

I'd rather go to jail than drink beer in a shopping centre pub that "opened it's doors with a glam VIP party to celebrate". 

Give your money to an honest pub / bar that deserves it!


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## pbrosnan (5/3/11)

"How do you appreciate a tattoo you get on your back or other places you can not see unless you have a mirror in front and behind you?"
That's an interesting question. Any of the "inked" community want to have a go?


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## DUANNE (5/3/11)

i have quite large tatts on both my legs and a smaller one on my chest and eventually would like more work done, but any thing i get done will be in a place i can see it. my tatts are for me and no one else . i can not understand personaly why anyone would get a great looking piece where they cannot see and enjoy it themselves but thats just me. i am not against it in any way and each to there own and so forth but it doesnt make sence to me.


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## DUANNE (5/3/11)

and to the op, if a pub refused me entry due to having ink i would tell them to shove it fair up theyre arse and go elsewere.


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## Banshee (6/3/11)

toper1 said:


> As the old saying goes..If I have to explain it to you,you'd never understand


 Nope, no matter what the reason I will never understand.


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## michael_aussie (6/3/11)

bum said:


> You actually can judge many types of book with reasonable accuracy through their covers these days.
> ...
> In relation to tatts, for instance, let us consider the lower-back butterfly...


http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=16479...344&theater


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## manticle (6/3/11)

pbrosnan said:


> "How do you appreciate a tattoo you get on your back or other places you can not see unless you have a mirror in front and behind you?"
> That's an interesting question. Any of the "inked" community want to have a go?



Just puts paid to Banshee's stupid idea that there are only one or two reasons why people get tattooed.

People have been modfying their bodies with indelible ink for far longer than people have been wearing stupid shirts and for many, many reasons. Banshee doesn't get it so Banshee doesn't get tattooed - pretty simple. Why making up crap about people who do should be the next logical step is something I don't understand.

Of course suggesting we all buy posters instead is a really good suggestion.


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## Sinfathisar (6/3/11)

pbrosnan said:


> "How do you appreciate a tattoo you get on your back or other places you can not see unless you have a mirror in front and behind you?"
> That's an interesting question. Any of the "inked" community want to have a go?




Sometimes it is space related - if I wanted a really large piece I would have to have it on my back as the planes and curves elsewhere would make it unworkable. Also a large back piece is less likely to be subject to time and weight change distortions.

Equally just knowing that it is there, wherever 'there' is, can be enough.


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## Pollux (6/3/11)

Banshee said:


> Sure am.
> Why not get large prints of your fav's and pin em up on your bedroom wall. Or is that what young tennage kids do until old enough to transfer them to the body?
> How do you appreciate a tattoo you get on your back or other places you can not see unless you have a mirror in front and behind you?




Ahh, the wise opinion of those without ink......It's one of those things that can not be explained to anyone who doesn't automatically understand. Some people buy large colour prints and hang them on their walls, others build houses with big design features that reflect their personality, some people modify/restore cars as a way of having a creative outlet, some people get tattoos.....


As for being able to see a piece, sometimes that's not what the tattoo is about, while I love being able to look down and see my daughters handprints tattoo/scarred on my chest, the actual act of getting it done was more important to me. It locked in the permanence of her existence in my world, and come whatever in the future, those pieces will always be the hands of my little angel....


Tramp stamps choosen from a collection on a wall are another world of body mods that I actually can't stand, but I hate all flash work. Just lacks a sense of personalisation to me..


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## Banshee (6/3/11)

manticle said:


> Just puts paid to Banshee's stupid idea that there are only one or two reasons why people get tattooed.
> 
> People have been modfying their bodies with indelible ink for far longer than people have been wearing stupid shirts and for many, many reasons. Banshee doesn't get it so Banshee doesn't get tattooed - pretty simple. Why making up crap about people who do should be the next logical step is something I don't understand.
> 
> Of course suggesting we all buy posters instead is a really good suggestion.



I take it with a BITE like that you are one of the tools that has a tattoo.

Ouch you took a chunk out of me


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## Banshee (6/3/11)

Pollux said:


> Ahh, the wise opinion of those without ink......It's one of those things that can not be explained to anyone who doesn't automatically understand. Some people buy large colour prints and hang them on their walls, others build houses with big design features that reflect their personality, some people modify/restore cars as a way of having a creative outlet, some people get tattoos.....
> 
> 
> As for being able to see a piece, sometimes that's not what the tattoo is about, while I love being able to look down and see my daughters handprints tattoo/scarred on my chest, the actual act of getting it done was more important to me. It locked in the permanence of her existence in my world, and come whatever in the future, those pieces will always be the hands of my little angel....
> ...



I prefer to keep my memories on photo paper in my wallet/wall etc. It can be updated and changed any time I want. Not knocking what you have done just not how I'd do it.


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## Silo Ted (6/3/11)

Banshee said:


> I take it with a BITE like that you are one of the tools that has a tattoo.



There's only one tool on this thread it seems. 

Body modification hatred - does your mother/sister/wife/you have peirced ears ? People with ear peircings are such tools, when you can easily get clip ons without permanently ruining your body. I will never understand why so many people do this.


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## brett mccluskey (6/3/11)

Sinfathisar said:


> Sometimes it is space related - if I wanted a really large piece I would have to have it on my back as the planes and curves elsewhere would make it unworkable. Also a large back piece is less likely to be subject to time and weight change distortions.
> 
> Equally just knowing that it is there, wherever 'there' is, can be enough.


+1



Pollux said:


> Ahh, the wise opinion of those without ink......It's one of those things that can not be explained to anyone who doesn't automatically understand. Some people buy large colour prints and hang them on their walls, others build houses with big design features that reflect their personality, some people modify/restore cars as a way of having a creative outlet, some people get tattoos.....
> +2
> 
> As for being able to see a piece, sometimes that's not what the tattoo is about, while I love being able to look down and see my daughters handprints tattoo/scarred on my chest, the actual act of getting it done was more important to me. It locked in the permanence of her existence in my world, and come whatever in the future, those pieces will always be the hands of my little angel....
> ...






Silo Ted said:


> There's only one tool on this thread it seems.
> 
> Body modification hatred - does your mother/sister/wife/you have peirced ears ? People with ear peircings are such tools, when you can easily get clip ons without permanently ruining your body. I will never understand why so many people do this.


+4 As i posted earlier,if you have to have it explained to you,you'll never understand


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## bum (6/3/11)

toper1 said:


> As i posted earlier,if you have to have it explained to you,you'll never understand


Or perhaps one might understand but not agree?

Nah, that's stupid! My position is the only valid one! 

(Obviously, this rhetoric applies equally to both sides.)


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## brett mccluskey (6/3/11)

bum said:


> Or perhaps one might understand but not agree?
> 
> Nah, that's stupid! My position is the only valid one!
> 
> (Obviously, this rhetoric applies equally to both sides.)


What? You can understand why someone has tatts but don't agree with that personal choice?Fortunately i don't need your agreeance/approval,and if you don't personally agree with my personal choice,then that's fine,each to their own. All i ask is you don't make assumptions about me based on my choice.If you do choose to make small minded assumptions,then i think it says more about you than me.Cos those types of assumptions tend to 'bleed' over into other types of assumptions,like race,skin colour,religion,etc.And if thats the case ,I feel sorry for you .


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## Banshee (6/3/11)

LOL. I'll bait up the hook and cast again latter.


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## brett mccluskey (6/3/11)

Banshee said:


> LOL. I'll bait up the hook and cast again latter.


Feck later,the Reddies are on the bite and i'm off down the channel now :lol: Plenty of other people on here to 'fight the good fight'


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## bum (6/3/11)

toper1 said:


> What? You can understand why someone has tatts but don't agree with that personal choice?Fortunately i don't need your agreeance/approval,and if you don't personally agree with my personal choice,then that's fine,each to their own. All i ask is you don't make assumptions about me based on my choice.If you do choose to make small minded assumptions,then i think it says more about you than me.Cos those types of assumptions tend to 'bleed' over into other types of assumptions,like race,skin colour,religion,etc.And if thats the case ,I feel sorry for you .


Mmmm...irony.


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## pbrosnan (6/3/11)

So why has tattooing become respectable over the last 20 odd years? Most here explain their taking on of tattoos as a very personal thing, so much so that those of us who don't have tattoos are incapable of understanding their reasons for adorning their bodies. This is a very much like the fundamentalist trying to explain to a rational atheist that they lack some intangible and undefinable quality that would allow them to experience the rapture. To me it isn't a valid explanation. 
<p>
I actually think it's more about "in" groups and "out" groups, the kind of prestige that comes from being decisive enough to take some irrevocable step, perhaps it's some sort of initiation ritual. Of course with so many people acquiring tattoos these days it's starting to lose a bit of currency. And I suppose it's a natural progression from people wanting to declare their individuality through fashion or facial hair, they externalise their unique personality for the benefit of the entire world.


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## Sinfathisar (6/3/11)

pbrosnan said:


> So why has tattooing become respectable over the last 20 odd years? Most here explain their taking on of tattoos as a very personal thing, so much so that those of us who don't have tattoos are incapable of understanding their reasons for adorning their bodies. This is a very much like the fundamentalist trying to explain to a rational atheist that they lack some intangible and undefinable quality that would allow them to experience the rapture do to me it isn't a valid explanation.
> <p>
> I actually think it's more about "in" groups and "out" groups, the kind of prestige that comes from being decisive enough to take some irrevocable step, perhaps it's some sort of initiation ritual. Of course with so many people acquiring tattoos these days it's starting to lose a bit of currency. And I suppose it's a natural progression from people wanting to declare their individuality through fashion or facial hair, they externalise their unique personality for the benefit of the entire world.



but to be a part of the 'in' group you would have to have it where it could be seen surely?


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## pbrosnan (6/3/11)

Sinfathisar said:


> but to be a part of the 'in' group you would have to have it where it could be seen surely?


Perhaps you're a bit shy or maybe you have succumbed to some peer pressure (that's the royal you). Perhaps if it's an intimate spot it gets you the approval of someone you admire.


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## michael_aussie (6/3/11)

pbrosnan said:


> . This is a very much like the fundamentalist trying to explain to a rational atheist that they lack some intangible and undefinable quality that would allow them to experience the rapture. .




I love analogies and that is a GREAT analogy.


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## brett mccluskey (6/3/11)

I'm starting to think a few Islamic/Halal butchers have infiltrated this thread, and we all know what that means <_< :drinks:


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## haysie (6/3/11)

Phew, here I was thinking I will never get those 10 minutes back reading this thread.......Girls bums on a beer forum... priceless! :chug: 






michael_aussie said:


> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=16479...344&theater


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## brett mccluskey (6/3/11)

10 points Haysie :super:


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## mwd (6/3/11)

Brilliant stuff don't deface your body tatoo the dog at least its hair will grow back and cover it over. 

He He way off topic from somebody who hardly ever goes to the pub at night when the lunatics are let out of the asylum.
The Blue Sky is much more civilised during the daytime though the music is too loud and the TVs are all set on dynamic mode everybody has a bright orange suntan


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## Bada Bing Brewery (6/3/11)

:icon_offtopic: OT a bit
Ink, no Ink - all personal choice. What I think is interesting is the amount of people who later on (10,15 yrs) later question their choice to ink up. My young fella is 17 and the rage is ink. I'm using the wiggles arguement at the moment. I ask him when you where 4 yrs old what did you love more than anything - the reply is the wiggles. I say imagine now you're 17 and your down the beach, chickie babes everywhere and peel off your shirt and you've got the wiggles in all their glory on your body (captian feathersword may have some cred - at least he is packing something). The point I'm trying to make to him is that what you like at 4 is different to 17 and different to 35 etc etc. Its a big permanent choice .....
Will he ink up - who bloody knows .....

2c


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## pbrosnan (7/3/11)

toper1 said:


> I'm starting to think a few Islamic/Halal butchers have infiltrated this thread, and we all know what that means <_< :drinks:


Cori Bernadi time?


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## Zizzle (7/3/11)




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## Ducatiboy stu (7/3/11)

Well.. Hello Kelly... :icon_chickcheers:


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## DennisKing (7/3/11)

In the early 1970`s at a pub in covent garden London we were refused a pint because we we not going to the nearby royal opera house, it was a pub not the opera house bar. As we were going to see monty python live we thought it was part of the show, unfortunately it wasn't


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## michael_aussie (7/3/11)

Zizzle said:


>


omg, that is so sad and so funny at the same time.

FIRST GUY: Isn't (looking down and reading) Kelly a top girl?
SECOND GUY: Yes (looking down and reading) Kelly is a pearler, we should do this again.


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## Margrethe (7/3/11)

I recommend that people who want tattoos get something that *means* something to you. Don't get a band name, or some silly girls name (or boys), or a pretty butterfly just because its 'pretty'. 

The artwork you have on your body should be meaningful. I'm 35- almost 36, and I've had tattoo's since I was late teens. The only thing that I dislike about them is the aging of the ink. It distorts, and makes the tattoo's look not so flash as they did when they were first done. 

However, they're all meaningful to me, and I've gotten more over the years, each one carefully thought through. I'm not a tattoo'd lady by any extent, but I do have plans for more. 

I don't think that name calling, and discrimination for or against tattoos is necessary here- show a little decorum. So ease up fellas yeah?


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## Nick JD (7/3/11)

I don't follow fashions, so I don't have any tattoos.


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