# Strange While Film/scales On Top Of Secondary Ferment



## danox (10/4/11)

Yesterday I went to keg my brew after a secondary ferment. The primary was normal and I poured off into another fermenter for a week in secondary with some dry-hopping. When I went to keg yesterday I found a layer of this stuff sitting on the top. It didn't smell or taste acidic and the layer feels like yeast when I scrapped some off the side. I've just never seen this before, so I wasn't sure if I should be worried about it or not. The above pic is what was left after I transferred most of the brew into a keg.

I've never done a secondary ferment before. Can anyone tell me if this is normal or not?


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## unrealeous (10/4/11)

Hi Dan-ox and welcome to the forum.

I'd say its an acetobacter infection - its normally a white film over the beer but if you move your fermenter around it forms clumps like you see. It needs oxygen to grow - so only forms on top of your beer. A lot of folks say its pretty harmless if you catch it early enough. Best way to see how much of an impact it has made is to taste the beer and if its still ok then you'll be ok (although I never recommend drinking infected beer :icon_vomit: ) Now that you have kegged your beer, remove any oxygen from the keg by burping/gassing the top of your keg and that will keep it from growing further. And drink your beer sooner rather than later.

Best way to avoid these is good sanitation and purging the oxygen out of your secondary fermenter.

[Edit - you can read up on some of the common infections here]
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-1.html

and Barl's right - it could also be Brettanomyces.


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## barls (10/4/11)

could also be brett.


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## mwd (10/4/11)

All is not lost I got a very similar looking 'infection' on my last beer by racking to a secondary for conditioning and after a few days it was like yours with like fine spider webs joining the white patches. I am pretty sure mine was acetobacter so I bottled the brew quick sharp and it carbed up fine and tastes just fine. You should have less hassle using a keg as soon as it is gassed should stop it dead in its tracks before it turns the brew to malt vinegar.

That is if it is in fact acetobacter and not something else.


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## danox (10/4/11)

Thanks, everyone. I'm a pretty sad cause this is the first time I've tried a secondary ferment and I was hoping it would fix some overly yeasty flavours I've been getting over summer. I was really careful to sterilise everything. Oh well, I guess these things happen.

It's gassed up and chilled in the keg now so I'll try some tomorrow and hope it doesn't make me ill.


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## mwd (10/4/11)

I think a quick taste will be all that's needed you will know if it's bad or not.

Post up your findings could be of interest to others.


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## felten (10/4/11)

No human pathogens can live in beer so you won't die. If it's acetobacter it will just taste like vinegar, but if its in a corny sealed up from oxygen it will die off.


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## Ross (10/4/11)

Dan Ox said:


> Thanks, everyone. I'm a pretty sad cause this is the first time I've tried a secondary ferment and I was hoping it would fix some overly yeasty flavours I've been getting over summer. I was really careful to sterilise everything. Oh well, I guess these things happen.
> 
> It's gassed up and chilled in the keg now so I'll try some tomorrow and hope it doesn't make me ill.




....& hopefully your last. This is not a secondary ferment, it's just taking a finished beer off the yeast while it conditions. You are leaving the surface of the beer exposed to air & the result is often what you experienced, a ruined beer.
Despite some peoples claims, there really is no gain to the quality of your beer by this process in a homebrewing situation. The beer will clear just as quickly left on the yeast & you are allowing the yeast to properly finish it's work.


Cheers Ross


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## brewguts (10/4/11)

Dan Ox
When i rack off my beer which can be anything from 5 to 14 days after beginning of primary ferment I always add 15g/23l of dextrose , just in case the yeast has consumed all the fermentable sugars. 

My belief is that the dextrose will ferment out very quickly and form a CO2 cap.

The logic behind racking is cos i'm lazy about getting wort off of the trub and get heaps into the fermenter and i have found my beer is clearer and has a more compacted sediment in the bottle

Using this regime i have yet to have an infection in my secondary, even with english ales drunk as cask from secondary over a period of several weeks. (yummy flat, warm beer )

Hope this info helps, for future brews

Al


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## Bribie G (10/4/11)

I've always (except for stouts) racked to a cube, flushed headspace with CO2 and cold conditioned and never had a problem. The only time I got a film (and the start of a vinegary taste) was when I left a brew for over two weeks in primary at room temp, I didn't notice that the airlock had got knocked and the grommet pulled half out, and obviously something got in. Nowadays I've gone over to leaving the beer in primary under Glad wrap, then crank the fridge down to cold condition for a few days to clear the beer out and then transfer to keg and store the keg for another week at -1 
If you can get far enough ahead with the production line, and have enough fridge space, I reckon "lagering in the keg" is the way to go as there's only one transfer, and no way air is going to make contact with the beer - especially if you flush the keg first. That spoiled batch would have paid for a lot of gas.

Edit: I can't believe I used airlocks for all that time, Gladwrap is brilliant.


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## wambesi (10/4/11)

Ross said:


> Despite some peoples claims, there really is no gain to the quality of your beer by this process in a homebrewing situation. The beer will clear just as quickly left on the yeast & you are allowing the yeast to properly finish it's work.



I racked a few times a couple of years ago, off the yeast and had this happen. After that experience and doing some more research I found out much like Ross has mentioned it does not seem to make much difference to the end product.

Since then I only have a primary vessel, I (usually) work with 14 days fermentation and then 7-14 days cold conditioning simply by throwing the fermenter into a fridge, that allows it to settle out and not exposed to anything.

The only difference in my beers I have noticed is no more infections.


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## Back Yard Brewer (10/4/11)

Dan Ox said:


> Thanks, everyone. I'm a pretty sad cause this is the first time I've tried a secondary ferment and I was hoping it would fix some overly yeasty flavours I've been getting over summer. I was really careful to sterilise everything. Oh well, I guess these things happen.
> 
> It's gassed up and chilled in the keg now so I'll try some tomorrow and ho  pe it doesn't make me ill.







Ross said:


> ....& hopefully your last. This is not a secondary ferment, it's just taking a finished beer off the yeast while it conditions. You are leaving the surface of the beer exposed to air & the result is often what you experienced, a ruined beer.
> Despite some peoples claims, there really is no gain to the quality of your beer by this process in a homebrewing situation. The beer will clear just as quickly left on the yeast & you are allowing the yeast to properly finish it's work.
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross




I would have to agree with Ross. I had been a religious racker to secondary for quite some time. Another brewer up Gympie way (procrastinate now  ) suggested to leave my finished ferment on the cake when CCing. I still throw in a bit of finnings and now save myself the extra hassle of racking. Beer still comes out drinkable :icon_cheers: 

BYB


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## michael_aussie (10/4/11)

I had something similiar once.
It looked like waxy thin icebergs.
I bottled (left a little more behind in the fermenter than I normally do, to make sure I didn't bottle any) and drank ASAP.
It tasted fine ... but I was glad to be rid of it.


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## Kevman (11/4/11)

Dan Ox said:


> Yesterday I went to keg my brew after a secondary ferment. The primary was normal and I poured off into another fermenter for a week in secondary with some dry-hopping. When I went to keg yesterday I found a layer of this stuff sitting on the top. It didn't smell or taste acidic and the layer feels like yeast when I scrapped some off the side. I've just never seen this before, so I wasn't sure if I should be worried about it or not. The above pic is what was left after I transferred most of the brew into a keg.
> 
> I've never done a secondary ferment before. Can anyone tell me if this is normal or not?




I've had this infection(?) before but in the primary. For me it appeared after primary fermentation finished. The ferment seemed to go as normal and I didn't move the fermenter around, in fact I hadn't even taken a SG sample when it first occurred. I would have thought the CO2 layer would protect against any oxygen-needing bug.

It did seem to be particularly resistant. It appeared in the next two brews until I used about 3 different sanitisers one after the other plus rinising in between each one with boiling hot water in the fermenter, it hasn't reappeared since.

I don't know what it is. I didn't think it was aceto-bacter as I thought aceto-bacter needed oxygen to grow and this appears to live quite happily in a CO2 rich environment. It seems to live on the surface only. It could be some form of wild yeast?


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## adryargument (11/4/11)

One of mine looked like this, it was about 3 weeks in the fermy so i just kegged it asap and drank it


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