# RecipeDB - All Challenger Bitter



## manticle (6/4/11)

All Challenger Bitter  Ale - English Best (Special) Bitter  All Grain               1 Votes        Brewer's Notes 1. Saccharification rest in two steps: 64 deg C for 10 minutes, 68 for 50 minutes. If not able to step mash, mash between 66 and 67 for 60 or try 69 for 90.2. I caramelised approx 2-3 litres down to a thick syrup (just shy of burnt). This seems to affect head retention so I would recommend caramelising down to to between 600mL and one litre rather than a syrup. 3. Vienna is Dingeman's biscuit which is not in the db list. Vienna could be subbed if necessary but use Weyerman.4. Yeast is Wyeast 1026 cask ale which is a seasonal release. A good English liquid strain would be the only substitute I would consider.5. I added a 1:1 mix of Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulphate to both mash and boil. I used 3g each in both circumstances but take into account your water.6. I used Simpsons Marris Otter and Simpsons Crystal (again not available in DB) but any good English malts should be fine.7. Please note particularly high AA of this batch of Challenger. As referred to in the discussion thread, Challenger are usually much lower so adjust the bittering addition to make it up to 36.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      7 kg TF Maris Otter Pale Malt    0.3 kg Weyermann Vienna    0.25 kg TF Crystal    0.25 kg TF Pale Crystal    0.15 kg TF Dark Crystal       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      30 g Challenger (Pellet, 7.5AA%, 60mins)    20 g Challenger (Pellet, 7.5AA%, 10mins)       Yeast     1000 ml Wyeast Labs 1026 - British Cask Ale       Misc     0.5 tablet Whirfloc         30L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.057 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.014 (calc)   Bitterness 22.7 IBU   Efficiency 70%   Alcohol 5.59%   Colour 23 EBC   Batch Size 30L     Fermentation   Primary 14 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 2 days


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/4/11)

I am brewing an Special bitter tomorrow with a mixture of challenger and Styrians.
Never tried a full Challenger hopped ale but its reported to be a duel purpose hop so should be ok.
GB


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## manticle (6/4/11)

Despite high AA there's nothing harsh in the bittering. I didn't go overboard with late hopping though.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/4/11)

I noticed your Challenger was 11% . The stuff I have is 2008 and is 5.6%. Got to use some old stock up. 1469 is my yeast of choice tomorrow. I have adjusted my RO water with a slant towards Ca Sulphate and some Sodium Chloride.
If yours comes up well I will give a single hopped Challenger ale a run.
GB


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## Bribie G (6/4/11)

Challenger is usually about 6%, as with Ross's new season - and as a check, Worcester Hops in UK quote around 6.5% so what gives with the 11%?


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## manticle (6/4/11)

Bought from grain and grape - advertised AA is 11%. 2009 harvest

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8694

Bottle being sent your way tomorrow Bribie.


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## manticle (8/4/11)

manticle said:


> Bought from grain and grape - advertised AA is 11%. 2009 harvest



Just ordered 500g from Ellerslie - theirs is 4.5% so that's a whopping variation. I'm not sure why the GG one is so high. When making this recipe again, I'll probably adjust the bittering to pick up most of the IBU and give only a minor increase in the flavour addition.


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## haysie (8/4/11)

Brewing today with some left over challenger, and its 11% ex G&G. May go along way why I screwed up Bribies yorkie recipe.


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## Bribie G (8/4/11)

Yup the Ellerslie is 4.5%

Haysie, that Yorkshire Gold you didn't mind at my place the other day was 50g Ellerslie Challenger 60min and 50g Aurora hop cubed. 
:icon_cheers:


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## bradsbrew (8/4/11)

BribieG said:


> Yup the Ellerslie is 4.5%
> 
> Haysie, that Yorkshire Gold you didn't mind at my place the other day was 50g Ellerslie Challenger 60min and 50g Aurora hop cubed.
> :icon_cheers:


Was that the stouts that Pete was serving up later in the evening.


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## Bribie G (8/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Was that the stouts that Pete was serving up later in the evening.


Please keep posts within this thread on-topic Bradley you naughty boy. :excl: 
That was his rye.


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## hillbillybreweries (8/4/11)

I think that around three years ago might have been slightly longer got a bulk order of challenger and it was around 6.5%. Could be that GG still has that vintage of hops in stock. Having said that it's a great hop and you get a great flavour and aroma from it when fresh


manticle said:


> Just ordered 500g from Ellerslie - theirs is 4.5% so that's a whopping variation. I'm not sure why the GG one is so high. When making this recipe again, I'll probably adjust the bittering to pick up most of the IBU and give only a minor increase in the flavour addition.


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## manticle (16/4/11)

New batch from ellerslie will be about 6.5% (just ordered 500g).

There was a recent discussion on brewers adding tasting notes to recipe threads.

Hopefully he doesn't mind but the following was too good not to post. I sent a bottle to BribieG and his response follows 



BribieG said:


> _Lovely smooth complex beer. Initial impression is the waft of almost floral aroma, reminiscent almost of fairy floss or those old fashioned candy Easter eggs - then the quick succession of "notes" that hit you as you drink, it reminds me very much of that effect you get with a good bottle of OHS, one note after another pops up, just when you thought there were no more "notes", here comes another one - malt, hop flavour, esters, etc
> No astringent bitterness, just that smooth deep bitterness on the middle of the tongue. Also no distinct hoppiness upfront, nearly all deep hop flavours. Love the colour as well. I kept getting flashbacks to Ivy covered country pubs with tanned clean thighed lasses on bikes cycling between youth hostels in my misspent youth
> 
> Well done - a real knee trembler_



Love t' tanned clean thighed lass wi' mah pint, aye lad ah do.


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## Bribie G (16/4/11)

:icon_chickcheers: 
That should have been OSH of course


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## Guysmiley54 (23/2/12)

Brewed this one today and I reckon it's gonna be a corker!

Two things Manticle:

1) I did the 10 minute rest at 64 and then mashed for 50 at 68. I've never done this before and it wasn't difficult at all, just wondering what you think this might be doing to the wort?

2) I took 3L of wort and caramelised down to 1L on the stove. It smelled and tasted divine! Toffee, Caramel even molasses flavours are in there. Can you taste these flavour notes very strongly in the finished beer? I also didn't take into account the extra evaporation into account and ended up with less volume / stronger wort. I boiled the kettle and added 1.7L of boiled water to top my cube up, but I don't think that will change anything too severely.

Oh, I also upped the 10min hop addition by another 50% as this is the first time I'm using Challenger and I really want to get a taste of the hop for my 1st experience. Still at 1.3g/l it's hardly going to rock the boat too hard. Will be pitching a stepped up starter of 1469 and fermenting around 20c.

Great recipe mate, I can't wait to taste this one


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## manticle (23/2/12)

The two stepped rest at those temps hits both sets of saccharifiacation enzymes in the mash.

The low rest pushes good attenuation, the high rest gives dextrinous, chewy, malty mouthfeel.

Therefore, in my experience, you get a malty full bodied beer that still finishes out properly. Best of both world.

Caramelisation/wort reduction adds a definite something. It's not like drinking toffee but it brings something to the mix that is distinct.

Hope it turns out well for you. I should brew this again soon (although bloody PC yeast bloody fuckin).


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## Guysmiley54 (24/2/12)

manticle said:


> The two stepped rest at those temps hits both sets of saccharifiacation enzymes in the mash.
> 
> The low rest pushes good attenuation, the high rest gives dextrinous, chewy, malty mouthfeel.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a good plan, makes sense to me. I really love english ales with that dark caramel/toffee sweetness but also finish dry. Here's hoping mine goes well  

Thanks for the recipe :beer:


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## mje1980 (24/2/12)

Sounds yummo manticle. I did an all FWH challenger bitter a while ago and it was fantastic.


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## Guysmiley54 (29/2/12)

manticle said:


> The two stepped rest at those temps hits both sets of saccharifiacation enzymes in the mash.
> 
> The low rest pushes good attenuation, the high rest gives dextrinous, chewy, malty mouthfeel.
> 
> ...




Hey mate,

What sort of FG would you expect with this mash schedule. I'm around 1021, about 5-6 days in and that yeast wants to drop out. I've been rousing gently for a few days now because I'm a bit worried that I've stalled...

68 should attenuate out to a higher FG, just wondering what your experience has been...

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## manticle (29/2/12)

If you mashed low for a bit first you should, in my experience get good attenuation. From memory I would have finished between 1010 and 1012. However my experience of many UK yeasts is that they will often go crazy for a bit then hit the 1020 mark and decide to sleep. Try the usual rousing tricks. I doubt if you mashed at 64 for 10 (or even at 68 for the whole lot) that your finish will be 1021.

She's just going slow and needs some encouragement.


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## Guysmiley54 (29/2/12)

manticle said:


> If you mashed low for a bit first you should, in my experience get good attenuation. From memory I would have finished between 1010 and 1012. However my experience of many UK yeasts is that they will often go crazy for a bit then hit the 1020 mark and decide to sleep. Try the usual rousing tricks. I doubt if you mashed at 64 for 10 (or even at 68 for the whole lot) that your finish will be 1021.
> 
> She's just going slow and needs some encouragement.



Cool, good to know.

No rush around here at the moment, I'll let it take it's course. For once I've had a good run of brews and have a backlog of tasty brews to drink in the meantime  :chug: 

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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