# Lactose + Beersmith



## rupal (29/7/09)

I have read that Lactose is not fermentable by normal beer yeasts, & will give beer sweetness without creating more alcohol. Although when i add Lactose in "BeerSmith" as an ingredient, it calculates almost as much alcohol as Dextrose. Is that right , or is it just BeerSmith ?


cheers


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

rupal said:


> I have read that Lactose is not fermentable by normal beer yeasts, & will give beer sweetness without creating more alcohol. Although when i add Lactose in "BeerSmith" as an ingredient, it calculates almost as much alcohol as Dextrose. Is that right , or is it just BeerSmith ?
> 
> 
> cheers



Beersmith doesn't take the relative fermentability of adjuncts into account when calculating FG (and therefore abv).....an easy method to overcome this...remove the lactose from the recipe, and note the OG. Add the lactose back in, and note the difference it makes to the OG. Then add that difference back onto the FG that beersmith has calculated....then work out the alcohol in the alcohol tool.

eg....without the lactose, the OG is 1040, with the lactose it is 1050, with fg (predicted by beersmith) 1010. So add 10 points onto the fg (which is what the lactose contributed)...giving fg 1020. Then use 1050/1020 in the alco tool, to give 3.9%. Just put the revised figures into the Notes section.

(btw, this is assuming 100% absolute unfermentability of the lactose. In practice ymmv, stable hydro readings etc etc, you know the rest.)


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## Rod (29/7/09)

I have used lactose in making stout

5 gm per bottle , or in bulk priming the equivalent for milk stout

10 gm for a cream stout

the milk and cream comes from the lactose being a milk sugar

I find the lactose makes a smoother stout , less medicinal flavour


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## jonocarroll (29/7/09)

@Rod: Why the bottle addition (assuming this isn't implying that you're trying to use lactose for priming)? Any reason for not using this in the primary fermenter?


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## Rod (29/7/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> @Rod: Why the bottle addition (assuming this isn't implying that you're trying to use lactose for priming)? Any reason for not using this in the primary fermenter?




good thought 

I probably did it this way because I made 1/3 straight , 1/3 milk , and 1/3 cream 

the following batches were made 1/2 and 1/2 

I added at priming , and used priming sugar to the full batch 

added lactose to the full batch at milk rate , bottled half and then added more lactose


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

Adding it before or after would be much of a muchness, really. Cider makers will often add it at the end of fermentation....those that use it in stouts will often add it at the start. The main difference is, that added at the end, it can be added incrementily (sp?), to achieve the desired level of sweetness and finish. Comes down to choice, I suppose. Personally, I add it to stouts at the start, and to cider at the finish....for no particularly compelling reason. Hmm...haven't done a cider in _yonks_...

edit: often = often, but not always.


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## rupal (29/7/09)

Thanks. I have a ginger beer brewing at the moment & it is a bit Dry for my liking, so i am thinking to add some lactose to make it a bit sweeter.


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

rupal said:


> Thanks. I have a ginger beer brewing at the moment & it is a bit Dry for my liking, so i am thinking to add some lactose to make it a bit sweeter.



just take a measured sample, and add some in a bit at a time till it's how you want it...then just scale that up. :icon_cheers:


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## np1962 (29/7/09)

If the Lactose is not fermentable can you not adjust the SG yield in beersmith to 1.000?
At this time mine gives a potential SG yield of 1.035.
Nige


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

NigeP62 said:


> If the Lactose is not fermentable can you not adjust the SG yield in beersmith to 1.000?
> At this time mine gives a potential SG yield of 1.035.
> Nige



You could...but that would give you the OG without the lactose (even though it is there, because it wil have zero yield)....so you either have an incorect og, or an incorrect fg estimate....

six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other, I think.


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## acoulson (29/7/09)

Hi,

I don't know weather its useful or not, but when thinking about using lactose for sweetening is interesting to take into account the relative sweetness of the different sugars.

Where sucrose is 100, the relative sweetness of lactose is only about 15-20. This means you need about 5 times the amount of lactose to have the same sweetening effect as sucrose. (not that you can use sucrose as a sweetener in unpasteurised beer) 

Fructose is over 150

Maltodextrins are around 50

Cheers,
Adam


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## muckey (29/7/09)

beersolutionsjapan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't know weather its useful or not, but when thinking about using lactose for sweetening is interesting to take into account the relative sweetness of the different sugars.
> 
> ...



hey adam, is there a website or document that gives all the details of relative sweetness?

I'm asking because you've presented some seemingly hard numbers here and I'm curious


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

Muckey said:


> hey adam, is there a website or document that gives all the details of relative sweetness?
> 
> I'm asking because you've presented some seemingly hard numbers here and I'm curious



Yeah, there are a few...without looking them up to check, adams numbers seem right from what I recall reading..Although I thought lactose was about 30....but the fog of time since I read up on it means I'm probably wrong.
Hang on a tick, I'll see if I can find some links

edit: heres an interesting one, that quotes different sources, and gives quite different results....I think that the last one on this page must have been the source of what I read before.
link

and one that has HFCS, Maltose, and artificial sweetners as well.
link


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## acoulson (29/7/09)

Muckey said:


> hey adam, is there a website or document that gives all the details of relative sweetness?
> 
> I'm asking because you've presented some seemingly hard numbers here and I'm curious



:icon_cheers: Actually, its just from memory that's why I gave a range for the lactose. I'm sure more exact information is out there... I think though- when judging RELATIVE sweetness, its a perception thing so there are different scales and methods


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## muckey (29/7/09)

beersolutionsjapan said:


> :icon_cheers: Actually, its just from memory that's why I gave a range for the lactose. I'm sure more exact information is out there... I think though- when judging RELATIVE sweetness, its a perception thing so there are different scales and methods



cheers mate. I thought that some details might be good in this thread seeing that it would make a guestimation of how much lactose to add a little easier.

it seems that encyclopaedia butters is on the job though


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## buttersd70 (29/7/09)

beersolutionsjapan said:


> :icon_cheers: Actually, its just from memory that's why I gave a range for the lactose. I'm sure more exact information is out there... I think though- when judging RELATIVE sweetness, its a perception thing so there are different scales and methods



It's one of those funny things, though. One source says one figure, one source says another....and both sources are based in academia or industry professionals, so it always comes down to the question 'whos numbers are right?' It's a good thing that for our practical purposes as homebrewers, close enough is good enough.

And Muckey.....you should know this already. I _distinctly _remember discussing this very issue on the phone with you when I did cider the first time. :lol:

edit: And it's Aegor (or gor), not Eagor.


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## muckey (29/7/09)

buttersd70 said:


> And Muckey.....you should know this already. I _distinctly _remember discussing this very issue on the phone with you when I did cider the first time. :lol:



I dont always ask questions for _*my* _benefit


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## rupal (4/8/09)

I added 1kg of lactose to my Ginger Beer by first boiling it in water & letting it cool & it has not made that much of a difference. It's not the cheap here either at almost $10 for a 500g bag. Is there any other method known to add more sweetness & still be able to bottle the beer ?


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