# Butters, Bribieg And Other Mild Experts:



## BjornJ (6/10/09)

Hi,
been toying with a recipe for an English Mild after reading of Butters/BribieG and others having a lot of success with low alcohol, malt driven beers. I got a recipe suggesion from BribieG but had a hard time finding the right grains, so decided it would be fun trying to create my own from scratch. (that sounds really clever, I know.. )

Never having made a Mild, I am hoping for some feedback from more experienced brewers.

My thinking:
-no crystal, my last beer has a little bit of "sickening sweetness", want to try a brew without crystal
-lots of "malty" malts rather than pale malt, this should help with the flavor?
-malenoidn malt, have been told by Butters and Dave G this is "Munich on Steroids"
(-hoping for malt flavor with low gravity)
-Chocolate and Carafa, both 800 EBC for darkness/malty flavor
-Maris Otter just because I have a kg at home!
-Carapils for low fermentability (and because I have 500 gr at home)
-high mash temp (70 degrees?) for low fermentability
-low attenuation yeast (WLP002) to leave more body than the low OG indicates
-low bittering with English hops (19 IBU?)


The attached screenshot from beersmith shows the recipe better than trying to put it in plain text on the thread:






1: 500 gr of Malenoidn malt, is that too much? Beersmith says to use max 15% but I have never tested it.

2: IBU of 19, is that ok? Thinking 20 gr of Challenger (7%) for 60 mins gives 17 IBU and 15 gr East Kent Goldings (3%) for 10 minutes gives 2.0 IBU for a total of 19, this should maybe give some bittering but leave the malt to drive the beer?

3: general feedback on the grain mix, too much "fancy stuff" or is it good to mix lots of grains to get a more rounded taste?

4: Caramelising the wort/Millaird reactions, whatever the right term is. Just to make it interesting, boil down a couple of litres of wort to a sticky syrup for even more flavor or does it sound enough as it is?

Any feedback appreciated,

thanks
Bjorn


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## therook (6/10/09)

BjornJ,

This is my English Mild and has been liked by many people

There is nothing wrong with creating your own

English Mild
Style: Mild Brewer: Rook 
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % 

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.20 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 83.1 % 
0.30 kg Caraamber (70.9 EBC) Grain 7.8 % 
0.15 kg Amber (Bairds) (100.0 EBC) Grain 4.2 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate pale ( Bairds ) (500.0 EBC) Grain 4.2 % 
0.15 kg Wheat Malt ( 3.0 EBC )
0.03 kg Roasted Barley (Thomas Fawcett) (1199.7 EBC) Grain 0.8 % 
20.00 gm Challenger [7.90%] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20%] (15 min) Hops 2.4 IBU 
1469 yeast 
Mashed at 68 - 69c

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.035 SG (1.030-1.038 SG) 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.010 SG (1.008-1.013 SG)
Estimated Color: 29.7 EBC (23.6-49.3 EBC) 
Bitterness: 20.5 IBU (10.0-25.0 IBU)
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 3.0 % 


Rook


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## warrenlw63 (6/10/09)

therook said:


> BjornJ,
> 
> This is my English Mild and has been liked by many people
> 
> ...



+1 for rook's mild it smacks of awesomeness.


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## Adamt (6/10/09)

therook said:


> 1469 yeast




:icon_drool2: 

How did you treat the yeast?


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## AndrewQLD (6/10/09)

Way too much melanoiden, that would be over the top, 5% MAX is still overly malty especially with only 19 IBU, get that up around 25 ibu and your getting close. 

Andrew


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## ausdb (6/10/09)

Here is the recipe from my latest Mild which got a bronze in our recent WA state comp. It is an evolution on the Moorhouse Black Cat mild recipe in the Beer Captured book that I have been brewing for a few years now. I don't bother with water treatment apart from carbon filtering and have used various yeasts (Wy1968 and Wy1469) and this time gave the Cask ale yeast a try, which is a ferocious fermenter and drops brilliantly clear but threw a little more diacteyl than I really like and one of the judges pinged me for it  

There seems to be a lot of contradictions in this recipe, the flaked maize and golden syrup both decrease body but give it a little more complexity. I find it works best to mash at 69C to compensate for the adjuncts. The GP malt was a little old so I threw in some Galaxy malt to help it convert I normally just use MO or GP with same percent of Munich. The choice of golden syrup is important, I used the bundaberg brand once and it came through with a pronounced rummy flavour (just like bundaberg rum) which I did not enjoy as much.

I enjoy the challenge of brewing a low gravity beer that still has flavour

No Idea Mild 

Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.65
Anticipated OG: 1.034 Plato: 8.54
Anticipated EBC: 51.7
Anticipated IBU: 17.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
27.4 1.00 kg. TF Golden Promise Pale Ale Ma UK 1.037 6
19.2 0.70 kg. Galaxy Ale Malt Australia 1.037 3
19.2 0.70 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15
11.3 0.41 kg. TF Flaked Maize UK 1.040 0
7.5 0.27 kg. Golden Syrup Generic 1.036 2
5.7 0.21 kg. Bairds Medium Crystal Great Britian 1.034 145
4.7 0.17 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special I Germany 1.036 950
4.7 0.17 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 936
0.5 0.02 kg. Smoked(Bamberg) Germany 1.037 18
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 4.00 15.3 60 min.
14.00 g. Fuggle Pellet 4.00 2.0 15 min.

Yeast
-----
Proculture Pro-102 Cask ale (Wyeast 1026)


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## RdeVjun (6/10/09)

It depends on the circumstances of course, but IMO the 500g of melanoidin is way OTT, particularly with the Munich malt and other specs in there. I've used 200g with just BB Ale malt for the remainder as a familiarisation batch, it worked out quite well and melanoidin certainly bumps the malt quotient up adequately, I've used 50 - 150g more recently with pleasing results, a malt- friendly yeast like 1768 and warm to hot mash helps too.
Caramelising some wort should be useful in a low alc situation, should lead to a slightly less fermentable wort and higher FG, while hopefully not sacrificing much in terms of body. My experience with this is not that extensive and many of my latest batches with this technique are still in the fermenter, but we did discuss it nearby recently. Ross' batch there is probably a good example to look at with it being low- alc, (but rather hoppy!). Be prepared to experiment with the technique before getting it right though, and the process isn't for the impatient or the feint- hearted!
I would aim for mid- 20 IBU at least with all that and I'll invariably add dry hops/ hops tea too but they're my preferences.

To be honest though, I'd recommend less ingredients to familiarise yourself with each of them first, it can be very confusing trying to isolate out the particular effects when there's so many. Way back when the bears were bad, I found myself adding everything I could lay my hands on at the time and ended up going round in circles chasing flavours and characteristics, so if you can avoid that frustration you'll . You'll still end up with damn good beers by keeping it simple too, and then set about including ingredients for a particular reason. 
OTOH, if you are able to source all of the ingredients for these proven recipes, then by all means go for it. 
:beer:


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## Stuster (6/10/09)

Bjorn, I'm not sure what you have will make a mild. I know you are against crystal but I think if you want to make a beer with no crystal, mild is not the beer to be making. You shouldn't need to have a cloyingly sweet beer though. I'd start with some of the nice recipes that ausdb and therook have posted here or have a look through the style of the week thread on milds here and then post back with a revised recipe. :icon_cheers: 

To answer your questions though. For me, far too much melanoidin. Maybe not too much 'fancy stuff' just an unusual mix. Might make a decent beer (hmmm), but not sure it'd make a mild.


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## therook (6/10/09)

therook said:


> BjornJ,
> 
> This is my English Mild and has been liked by many people
> 
> ...



Just realised i didn't use Pale malt, I used Halcyon

Rook


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

therook said:


> BjornJ,
> 
> Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 3.20 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 83.1 %
> ...



That sounds really nice as well!

My thinking with the melanoiden, maris otter and munich malts were to use malts with a more "malty" flavor than normal pale malt or pilsner malt.
Is the amber/chocolate and as little as 30 gr of Roasted barley enough to give it a nice flavor or will be more of an easy-drinking, not-to-malty kind of thing? 

What's great about your recipe is that I already have the challenger and east kent goldings as well  

Yeast:
I have a vial of WLP002 in the fridge, I split it 2 weeks ago so thinking of using that. Read yesterday about a yeast called 1099 that had low attenuation, high flocculation and temperature up to 24 degrees, so that sounds like a winner as well!

The 1026 yeast will ferment too low, won't it? Looked it up now, and it will ferment to 74-77% according to http://www.wyeastlab.com/pc4q2008.cfm. 

thanks
Bjorn


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

RdeVjun said:


> It depends on the circumstances of course, but IMO the 500g of melanoidin is way OTT, particularly with the Munich malt and other specs in there.
> 
> To be honest though, I'd recommend less ingredients to familiarise yourself with each of them first, it can be very confusing trying to isolate out the particular effects when there's so many. Way back when the bears were bad, I found myself adding everything I could lay my hands on at the time and ended up going round in circles chasing flavours and characteristics, so if you can avoid that frustration you'll . t.
> :beer:



Ralph,
thanks for the advice but you are the one starting me on the slippery-slope of splitting yeast and trying new stuff!
And now you are asking me to step back from the edge, hehe!!
 

You're all probably right, need to cut or reduce the malenoiden, maybe I should replace it with just 200 gr of crystal.






Stuster said:


> Bjorn, I'm not sure what you have will make a mild. I know you are against crystal but I think if you want to make a beer with no crystal, mild is not the beer to be making. You shouldn't need to have a cloyingly sweet beer though. I'd start with some of the nice recipes that ausdb and therook have posted here or have a look through the style of the week thread on milds here and then post back with a revised recipe. :icon_cheers:
> 
> To answer your questions though. For me, far too much melanoidin. Maybe not too much 'fancy stuff' just an unusual mix. Might make a decent beer (hmmm), but not sure it'd make a mild.




I appreciate this comment as well. My "Porter" turned out to be an ok, brownish ale with a too low body and too much fresh hops for a porter. I don't mind it, but probably not a porter, hehe.
This recipe is probably the same? Having to much fun in beersmith to KISS.

I have read the style of the week thread about milds, lots of good stuff. I just thought it would make sense to use malty malts for a Mild, rather than pale malt and some bits?

maybe it's time to slow it down a notch and try to keep it simple.. Just like I should brew my HopHit again to do it better. But I just can't help it.. I want to do a new style, add new ingredients, play with new toys....

 

thanks
Bjorn


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## kook (6/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> I have read the style of the week thread about milds, lots of good stuff. I just thought it would make sense to use malty malts for a Mild, rather than pale malt and some bits?



Remember - munich, melanoidin etc give very different flavours to crystal malts. They're produced using very different methods. Nothing wrong with using them though.

Just have a think about the flavours each component adds to the beer and how to layer them. Grab a teaspoon of each and taste the difference


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

How about this;
-ditched the melanoiden malt completely 
-reduced the wheat from 0.5 kg to 0.2 kg (now 5.5%)
-added amber malt(20%)

to be closer to Rook's recipe.

Kept the Maris Otter and carapils as I have these already and the carapils should help give a less fermentable wort.



The color is now estimated as 36.8 EBC, I'll think I will try staying under 20 IBUs to really try the "malty-ness".

v2 of Bjorn's Mild:



From my last brew I know I will end up with a couple of gravity points higher than expected, so my 65% efficiency figure in beersmith is not correct. Keeping it in case I want to try caramelise a bit of the wort or spill some again!

What do you think now, any more like a Mild or still too many kinds of grain and what-not?

thanks
Bjorn


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## Bribie G (6/10/09)

Adamt said:


> How did you treat the yeast?



I took mine to the movies then to Maccas :icon_cheers: 

OT: Mild isn't really a sweet beer, it's supposed to be smoooooth and malty but I don't use crystal in it, I get the colour from choc chit and Carafa 2 or roast barley. Some great recipes above. In the UK they traditionally use brewers sugars or syrups as well. Melanoidin or Munich would give a really malty character but might need a bit more hop to balance it out and then you are probably looking more at a bitter. I have used Melanoidin in a Superlandlord but balanced with heaps of hops. And 100g not 500  

Butters alerted me to a great way of giving a heap of smoothness and body to a mild even with it being low alcohol and that is to mash at 70 degrees, for the shortest time possible to convert the carbohydrates (iodine test). Also I boil for 60 minutes so I'm getting a hop freshness without too much bitterness. Both methods run contrary to my 'gospel' 90 mins mash and 90 mins boil but it works for me.

Latest batch:

4000 Golden Promise (Halcyon would be great as well, may try it)
150 JW choc chit
80 Roast barley (ran out of Carafa)

70 degrees 60 mins

15 Northdown 60 mins
10 Styrian Goldings 10 mins

1469 / Ringwood blend (The Spawn h34r: )


With 1469 or Ringwood I give it a good rousing and aeration the morning after pitching, that evening, the next morning then seal it up as it's done and dusted in two or three days anyway.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## np1962 (6/10/09)

Why not go a little more simple?
The following makes a very nice English Mild
45% Maris Otter
45% Munich I
6% Caraamber
4% Carafa I

Use your Challenger @ 60min to say 15-17 IBU
No more than .5g/l EKG @ 15 min.

Yeast to your choice ( I've used London Ale III in similar recipe and was highest scoring mild in SABSOSA)

Have Fun
Cheers
Nige


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## buttersd70 (6/10/09)

way, _way _too much amber. and way too much carapils.

Bjorn, use the rule of thimb (which I just magically came up with off the top of my head.this _very _minute....a gross generalisation, perhaps, but one that will give you at least a starting point).....

Rule of "fives"
five percent crystal (any sort of crystal, in total)
five percent roast (which includes carafa, chocolate, roast barley: in combination)
five percent wheat, either malt, torrefied, or flaked, if you feel the need. ie, if you're having body issues without it.
0.5 (it fits the rule of five, with a bit of poetic licence) grams per Litre of late hop (ie 15 or 20min addition)
0.5 (see above re poetic licence) BU:GU....ie, bitter it to half of the OG. (eg...1036, bitter to 18ibu)

edit: Nige posted whilst I was typing....do you notice, that for the most part, his recipe is (at least close to) my "rule of 5's"? give or take a percent either way....... :lol: editv2...and this was a cracker of a mild, even if it did use EKG :lol: 

note: the term 'rule of fives' is the intelectual property of myself. I thought of it first. Nyah.


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

BribieG said:


> Butters alerted me to a great way of giving a heap of smoothness and body to a mild even with it being low alcohol and that is to mash at 70 degrees, for the shortest time possible to convert the carbohydrates (iodine test). Also I boil for 60 minutes so I'm getting a hop freshness without too much bitterness. Both methods run contrary to my 'gospel' 90 mins mash and 90 mins boil but it works for me.
> 
> Latest batch:
> 
> ...





BribieG,
thanks for commenting, that's the exact recipe that started this:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...c=37449&hl= 

But I can't find the grains you are using on the daves homebrew shop web site so trying to mix and match  using some stuff I already have ready.


On another post I saw you said to mash only for 45 minutes, is that a good pointer for how long to mash this one?
I have never done a iodine test, can I guess how long to mash for?

thanks
Bjorn


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

NigeP62 said:


> Why not go a little more simple?
> The following makes a very nice English Mild
> 45% Maris Otter
> 45% Munich I
> ...




that sounds good as well, using the hops I have and the MO.

Hmm..
The more options I get, the more fun and the less brewing seems to happen here!

Thanks
Bjorn


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## Ross (6/10/09)

Some nice recipes above - The below recipe has won 1st place & Gold in State competitions.
Mashed at 67 to 68c.

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.3 EBC) Grain 51.02 % 
1.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (25.0 EBC) Grain 25.51 % 
0.30 kg Crystal Malt -Bairds light Crystal (110.0 EBC) Grain 7.65 % 
0.30 kg Maize, Flaked (Bairds) (2.5 EBC) Grain 7.65 % 
0.12 kg Chocolate Malt (1300.0 EBC) Grain 3.06 % 
0.10 kg Brown Malt (145.0 EBC) Grain 2.55 % 
0.10 kg Caraaroma (390.0 EBC) Grain 2.55 % 
45.00 gm Williamette [4.60 %] (60 min) Hops 21.9 IBU 
20.00 gm Williamette [4.60 %] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU 
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Table Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Windsor Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale 

Measured Original Gravity: 1.040 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 3.51 % 

Cheers Ross


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> way, _way _too much amber. and way too much carapils.
> 
> Bjorn, use the rule of thimb (which I just magically came up with off the top of my head.this _very _minute....a gross generalisation, perhaps, but one that will give you at least a starting point).....
> 
> ...




So should I replace the 0.7 kg of Amber with pale malt?
(and added 100 gr of Crystal)
This would 
-leave carafa/choc malt combining 5.6% roast
-5.56% wheat
-color 35.1 EBC
But still have a lot of carapils for dextrinous wort if that is a word, aiming for low alcohol?

(I felt good about the amber malt, actually. But still taken it out)

Or has the time come to teach me the jump-mashing?


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## bradsbrew (6/10/09)

All Willamette hey Ross. Very interesting. I like me willamette but never tried it by itself.

Brad


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

Ross said:


> Some nice recipes above - The below recipe has won 1st place & Gold in State competitions.
> Mashed at 67 to 68c.
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> ...



Interesting, you are mixing lots of grains!
The Williamette hops, could I substitute for Challenger/EK Goldings/Saaz/Cascade/Amarillo? (what I have in stock)

thanks
Bjorn


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## kook (6/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> Or has the time come to teach me the jump-mashing?



Dough in at 35-40 with just enough water to solubilise the starches, then raise with boiling water to 70-72 to target alpha amylase activity.

It's very similar to some of the step mashes used in Belgium, with the beta amylase rest skipped.

Personally I don't see any major advantage over doughing in and resting at 70, but I've never tried it  There may be better conversion and efficiency, but I would think that would actually be of detriment to a mild?


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## buttersd70 (6/10/09)

re the amber: if you like amber, leave _some _in....don't discard it altogether. Personally, I'm not keen, but that's a _personal _thing. The amount you had is too much, though....have a look at the _percentages _of grist (as opposed to the weights) in Rooks recipe....that's about right.....even for me, someone that isn't a particular fan of that grain. Subtle hands, that's the thing.  

re jumpmashing:.....not so much for a Mild. Kook has summarised it fairly well, although in practice a rest of 74C works better imo. (I've done about half a dozen, or so). The jump works best for ultra low OG's....in the 1020's (I've done 1026 and 1028). No need for it for a mild, though. It's more a case of the jump working for a mild, rather than a mild working for a jump, if you know what I mean....in fact, the technique was invented with lagers in mind. :huh: 

A standard hot mash will work fine, for OG's of 1032(ish) or more(assuming that you keep a good eye on your temps.) My preference would be for around 1035(ish).

edit: just as an FYI, re the jumpmash....efficiency actually drops like a stone. 1026OG, on my system, gives me around 10% lower efficiency than a 'normal' mash in the mid 40's, due to the throttling effect on the amalyses, and the mash being done only to the point of positive iodine, and no further.  But it's an interesting little exersize. Not for the faint hearted, though....you need really _really _precise temp control, and full knowledge of your own system.


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

ok, thanks. So maybe just aim to mash at 70 degrees, then.

If I were to try the jump-mashing, would that mean I could go for a lower OG of say 1.026?

As long as it tastes good, the lower the alcohol the better as far as I am concerned.

thanks
Bjorn


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## hughyg (6/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> Hi,
> been toying with a recipe for an English Mild after reading of Butters/BribieG and others having a lot of success with low alcohol, malt driven beers. I got a recipe suggesion from BribieG but had a hard time finding the right grains, so decided it would be fun trying to create my own from scratch. (that sounds really clever, I know.. )
> 
> Never having made a Mild, I am hoping for some feedback from more experienced brewers.
> ...




A bit of topic, but can crystal give a sickly sweetness? I used some in my Amarillo ale and I thought it had a sickly sweetness to it. I had attributed it to the warm ferment temp (22C) and yeast (northwest wyeast)


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## buttersd70 (6/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> ok, thanks. So maybe just aim to mash at 70 degrees, then.
> 
> If I were to try the jump-mashing, would that mean I could go for a lower OG of say 1.026?
> 
> ...



Yep, you could. You could do it as a mild....but, as I said, you would be doing the mild to suit the jumpmash, not doing the jump to suit the mild.  . In which case, melanoiden of 15-20% would be right....given the ultra low OG, and the resultant drop in flavour associated with dropping the OG that low. My 2c, though, as I've mentioned to you before.....do a mild or three to get your eye in, so to speak, before attempting a technique that's so far out of the box.  

My mild....
Golden promise 91%
Caraaroma 6%
carafa special 1 3%
Fuggle @60
styrian golding at 20 0.5g/L
OG 1036
total IBU = 0.5 BU:GU
Mash 70C
wy1469 or ringwood....

If you like it more roasty, and less crystal....change to caraaroma 5%, carafa 4%, or for more "ashy" (that's how I interpret it - others may say different) astringent end notes, caraaroma 5%, carafa 4% and roast barley 1%....

edit: starting to get not entirely dissimmilar to Rooks mild here.... ^_^


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

Just got a message from Mike from the northern brewers about Golden Promise as well.
What is the story with this malt, since it keeps popping up in Mild recipes?

thanks


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## Bribie G (6/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> Just got a message from Mike from the northern brewers about Golden Promise as well.
> What is the story with this malt, since it keeps popping up in Mild recipes?
> 
> thanks



Golden Promise barley is grown in the Scottish Lowlands and is also sent to maltings such as Thomas Fawcett in Yorkshire so is perfect for milds such as traditional Scottish 60/- ales or Northern Milds from Manchester, and even down into the English Midlands where milds are still commonplace. I haven't used Maris Otter for about six months, I feel it is more appropriate to Southern British ales.


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

But... I wanted to brew with what I have! Now you (And Mike J) have made me want to order away for a "proper" malt, hehe.


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## buttersd70 (6/10/09)

GP, is the #1 malt of choice.....it's my #1 hardon inducing malt. (I dream about the luverly lalland lassies turning it with wooden shovels at the malting house) :icon_drool2: ....but 1/2 Marris otter, and 1/2 munich (as the base malt) would be _fine_, bjorn.

edit: read the malt specs on the craftbrewer site, which in turn are taken directly from the malt manufacturers. The flavour descriptions are quite good, imo.


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## RdeVjun (6/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> My mild....
> Golden promise 91%
> Caraaroma 6%
> carafa special 1 3%
> ...


+ 1: I lifted this 91:6:3 recipe a few months ago (many thanks for that Butters!), its a right cracker, I used 1275 though. Everyone raved about it, I was chuffed. 
I might just order another sack of GP for when this one is all used up with 100% GP/ caramelised TTLs and 1469. Or break with the plan of using it all in TTL experiments... Decisions, decisions...

Bjorn, sorry to drag you back from the edge only for these guys to push you way back out there! Good on you though for having a chop at something different that you've never done before, looks like you're well on your way. :icon_cheers:


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## buttersd70 (6/10/09)

1275 is what I used befor e1469 became available.  Haven't used it in a while, but imo it's a cracking yeast. To be honest, it's not best in a mild unless you're confident and comfortable with your temps, cos its a mid to high attenuator....but it's a cracker if you pull it off.  

1469 is the yeast of choice imo; ringwood is better in some ways, cos of the low attenuation.


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## Bribie G (6/10/09)

Off topic. 

Coming up to November, anyone know anything about the release of 1469 this year if it's going to happen???


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## buttersd70 (6/10/09)

BribieG said:


> Off topic.
> 
> Coming up to November, anyone know anything about the release of 1469 this year if it's going to happen???



40 seconds and counting.... :lol: 

no, nothing heard. the limited release of 1469 was why I took up slanting.....

would be interested in lyour opinion (in another thread, of course) of the flavour similarites/differences with the 1469 and the other manufacturers equivilents, given that you've used them both.


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## RdeVjun (6/10/09)

Ta for that Butters, I mashed at 69C for 60, OG 1.036, sadly I can't find the FG just now and it would've been around 18 in the fridge, might've started slightly warmer. On the strength of this, it looks like I might just detour for a bit, particularly now that I've got the right yeast. (Ditto with my own slanting, BTW.)

BribieG, I've no idea, but last time I looked there were Lager yeasts lined up for the northern autumn.  Though it would make for a bunch of happy chappies all across the country if the west yorkie did turn up again in shops!


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## ausdb (6/10/09)

BribieG said:


> Off topic.
> 
> Coming up to November, anyone know anything about the release of 1469 this year if it's going to happen???


Why not just mail order Proculture "Wood Ale" yeast from Gryphon? it's available all year round


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## Bribie G (6/10/09)

Due to the treadmill of brewing for comps I haven't got round to using the 2 very well sealed phials of Wood Ales in the fridge but now I am free to shake off the strait jacket of the BJCP requirements (Down Butters, Down Butters good boy) I have a SuperLandlord cubed from yesterday and will be using the Wood Ale tomorrow. We shall see.


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## Bizier (6/10/09)

I second (or whatever number I am) on the Ringwood... I have used milds as a starter for more substantial beers and it really works well with the dark grain flavours.

I did one recently with S04, and it is really a bit 'meh'. I did it with JW Trad ale and JW Choc... I reckon don't consider being stingy on the ingredients in such a light beer because it is very noticeable.

I have found one thing. Brewing with Prospect water gives a kind of dark fruit acidity (plum) to my milds that I would like to eliminate. My next one will be hardened up a touch.

I was interested to see what you would think if you did brew your original beer... it would have demonstrated first hand what those ratios of ingredients provide, and how close to a mild you would have got.

They are a great style with a lot of scope for making low alcohol fun.


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

Is there any Milds available to try out?
I have asked in a couple of bottle shops but stopped after getting blanker stares than usual.
Would been nice to know what I'm shooting for here..


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## Bribie G (6/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> Is there any Milds available to try out?
> I have asked in a couple of bottle shops but stopped after getting blanker stares than usual.
> Would been nice to know what I'm shooting for here..


You probably won't find any because they are basically a draught beer and not bottled. PM me to exchange our addresses, send me a prepaid Aus Post satchel and I'll gladly send you a bottle of one of my humble brews :icon_cheers:

Edit splling Mein Gott how many biers haf I drunk


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## Bizier (6/10/09)

Likewise, PM me if you are going to be around Marrickville at all and I will gladly give you one. The only one I have at the moment is a little bland, but there will be many more to avenge its offensive mediocrity.


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## BjornJ (7/10/09)

Will PM you both, awesome!

thanks


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## np1962 (7/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> GP, is the #1 malt of choice.....it's my #1 hardon inducing malt. (I dream about the luverly lalland lassies turning it with wooden shovels at the malting house) :icon_drool2: ....but 1/2 Marris otter, and 1/2 munich (as the base malt) would be _fine_, bjorn.
> 
> edit: read the malt specs on the craftbrewer site, which in turn are taken directly from the malt manufacturers. The flavour descriptions are quite good, imo.



Effen Hell! I better get round to butters place and pick up my 4kg of GP that's sitting there b4 it gets violated! :lol: 

Cheers
Nige


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## bconnery (7/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> Is there any Milds available to try out?
> I have asked in a couple of bottle shops but stopped after getting blanker stares than usual.
> Would been nice to know what I'm shooting for here..



I've had Moorhouse's Black Cat here in Aus. from Nectar in Brisbane which I think is an excellent mild...
Not sure who distributes it but your local specialty bottle store, ask the Sydney guys around here if you don't have one, I think Platinum Cellars is a name that keeps cropping up?, and they might have it or know who to ask...

As BribieG says though, for the most part it is a draught style.


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## BjornJ (7/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> GP, is the #1 malt of choice.....it's my #1 hardon inducing malt. (*I dream about the luverly lalland lassies turning it with wooden shovels at the malting house*) :icon_drool2: ....but 1/2 Marris otter, and 1/2 munich (as the base malt) would be _fine_, bjorn.
> 
> edit: read the malt specs on the craftbrewer site, which in turn are taken directly from the malt manufacturers. The flavour descriptions are quite good, imo.



Dreaming of Scottish lassies, mmm...

Maybe not.


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## BjornJ (7/10/09)




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## buttersd70 (7/10/09)

NigeP62 said:


> Effen Hell! I better get round to butters place and pick up my 4kg of GP that's sitting there b4 it gets violated! :lol:
> 
> Cheers
> Nige



3.85 kg. :lol:


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## BjornJ (9/10/09)

ok, got the grains now and will brew with my maris otter/munich recipe as the first try of a Mild.
Will have to order the Golden Promise/Carafa/caraaroma combination to try as another version.

used Butters hop level theory on the IBU


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## hazard (9/10/09)

BjornJ said:


> Is there any Milds available to try out?
> I have asked in a couple of bottle shops but stopped after getting blanker stares than usual.
> Would been nice to know what I'm shooting for here..



Coopers Mild availabale at Dan's - its low alcohol, 3.5%, though don't know how this compares taste wise to British milds.


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## BjornJ (9/10/09)

hazard said:


> Coopers Mild availabale at Dan's - its low alcohol, 3.5%, though don't know how this compares taste wise to British milds.



Thanks for that, just looked it up now.
I had never heard of a Coopers Mild but will keep an eye out for it.

thanks for the tip,

Bjorn


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## buttersd70 (9/10/09)

hazard said:


> Coopers Mild availabale at Dan's - its low alcohol, 3.5%, though don't know how this compares taste wise to British milds.



Completely different animal, altogether. It's like the difference between a fillet steak, and a gearbox for a vauxhaul viva.


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## Adamt (9/10/09)

Mild Ale is definitely not an "English Mild", but it's a pretty decent drop for a commercial midstrength. If you get it fresh (which may be difficult interstate where its not that popular) it's got a nice Saaz hop character, great for summer.


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## Ragmans Coat (9/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Completely different animal, altogether. It's like the difference between a fillet steak, and a gearbox for a vauxhaul viva.




Yum milds are one of my faves from the old country! Butters what are some of the best commercial ones you've tried and can recommend over the Coopers imposter?


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## buttersd70 (9/10/09)

Ragmans Coat said:


> Yum milds are one of my faves from the old country! Butters what are some of the best commercial ones you've tried and can recommend over the Coopers imposter?



As bribie said, you probably won't find any (or at least many) out here. I've never actually seen any, myself. Back in the UK, I didn't really know what I was drinking, exactly, most of the time...just that it was Mild....I was underage, and my cousin used to sneak me a half when the old man wasn't looking, when we used to go to the pub for meals.  Definately cask ale, though.


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## brendo (9/10/09)

I just got back from a trip in the UK and I sampled plenty of the local brews.

Milds were few and far between, but all of the ones I had were definitely served as real ale - cask conditioned and hand-pumped.

I did look in a few specialty bottle shops while there and I didn't see any, so agree with BribieG and Butters that it is more of a cask served style.

Damn tasty drops and something I will certainly be having a crack at in the near future.

Cheers,

Brendo


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## BjornJ (9/10/09)

....happily about to export the recipe so I could use it at home..planning to copy BribieG's example of adding a litre of sterile water to the fermenter after racking the current beer to a cube. Wash the fermenter, make this "mild-like" one and pitch the litre of yeast/water collected earlier..

Then it hit me.. The yeast in the fermenter now is a WLP001, not WLP002!!
AAAAAAA. So I had another trip in the rain, and now I have a vial of WLP002 ready to go.
Will still try the BribieG trick and put the bottle in the fridge until another day.
The woohoo, trying to re-use yeast feeling has gone, though. :lol: 

(I did copy the recipe and replaced the yeast to see how it would turn out with the californian ale WLP001 as opposed to the English Ale yeast WLP002. the estimated FG dropped from 1.010 to 1.007 and alc went up, so I wanted to use the WLP002 for low attenuation, high flocculation and what I understand is an "English"/malty profile)

Bjorn


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## BjornJ (11/10/09)

Brewed my Mild today, ended up with 23 litres at 1.032 in the fermenter.

Lost a couple of litres to trub in the kettle of maybe 16-18 litres after finished boil, then diluted with water to hit volume and OG.
That means my efficiency is better than the 65% I use in beersmith.
As I lost a couple of litres of "concentrated" wort before diluting with water, I would have ended up with a higher OG had I not lost anything, as well as the IBUs will be a little lower now that I diluted.

Well well, all good and great to have spent another lazy afternoon brewing


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## Bizier (12/10/09)

I am sure it will be great.

The double edged sword of a low OG beer is that they are great to experiment with, but also disappear quicker. I am going to kegging just so I don't have to wash so many damn bottles after having a good stab at some milds in a sitting.

I will have to try a fresh Coopers Mild, because the few I have tried repulsed me... but they were unchilled from DMs and of unknown age.


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## RdeVjun (12/10/09)

Hell yeah Bjorn, 65% would be woefully inadequate. Mid-70s should be the norm with your kit, if not better. :beerbang: 

Great way to spend the afternoon agreed, I tried overnight mashing on friday night, works brilliantly if pressed for time though and efficiency is superb too.


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## BjornJ (19/10/09)

did a hydrometer reading last night, after a week in the primary fermenter.

FG 1.014, a bit higher than I would have thought.
Will leave it another week probably before getting around to bottling.

Bjorn


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## BjornJ (20/10/09)

ordered the grains for Butters Mild today, used beerbelly as Dave's Homebrew does not have the golden promise that keeps being listed as a good bet for a Mild. ordered the styring golding as well so I can try with the "whole" recipe even though I will use WLP002 rather than ringwood as I have this in the fridge.


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## manticle (20/10/09)

Purely out of curiosity - is mild supposed to refer to abv or to hopping? Recently acquired book on old british beers suggests it's hopping but I'm interested on various takes.


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## np1962 (20/10/09)

The modern, and my, interpretation of a mild is a lower abv (below 4% by style guidelines) which is balanced toward the malt.
My own recipe has an OG around 1.036 and is between 15 and 18 IBU. Mashed between 68 and 70C for a little more body.
Some take a different approach brewing a 'mild' as anything around 3.5%abv as per Ross's recipe which appears to be a low alc, heavily hopped beer.
Coopers Mild is also nowhere near an English Mild Ale as I know and love them.
I guess it depends on whether you are into guidelines or not.
AABC, BJCP guidelines mention that milds of old were often quite high in alc so that fits with what you are reading.
Am sure Butters will have an opinion.
Cheers
Nige


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