# Black pale ale



## JJB (23/7/14)

Hey everyone I'm wondering if anyone can help me with a black pale ale I want to brew. I really want the black colour without any flavour. I know if you add the black malt at the end of mash you get colour and less flavour but I have no idea how much to add. Does anyone have any experience with this??

Cheers


----------



## Edgebrew (23/7/14)

Try Alt beer?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (23/7/14)

No more than 100g and less if possible -use Ian's kits and bits spreadsheet to get an idea of how much to add.

Look for a huskless grain, that gives less 'black' flavour. Carafa III or Midnight wheat are the two that come to mind.

Or get some colouring from craftbrewer.

Edit: Linky added.


----------



## NewtownClown (23/7/14)

Sinmar extract or cold steep roasted malts (carafa special or de-bittered roasted malts would be best) and add to the boil for colour with minimal flavour


----------



## hijukal (23/7/14)

As Goomba says, add 1-1.5% max dehusked black malt. I've used Carafa III in the past to make a black saison. From memory, it was about 1% Carafa III and maybe 0.1-0.2% regular black malt just to get a little roastiness. Worked out great.

I'm lazy so just mashed it all, but there's probably better ways.


----------



## JJB (23/7/14)

Thanks guys. I think the midnight wheat might be the ticket. Once it's brewed I'll let you all know how it goes


----------



## sponge (23/7/14)

Midnight wheat cold steeped gives a real intense colour and not much roast behind it.

I've made a couple of 'mass-friendly' porters and stouts for parties this way by getting the colour I was after but with a subdued roast character.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (23/7/14)

JJB said:


> black pale ale


No such thing. B)


----------



## Phoney (23/7/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No such thing. B)


There damn well should be.

Black IPA or Cascadian Dark ale, or whatever the hell you call them is one of my favourite styles. Yet I can't sit around and drink a >6% hop monster all night. So I scale them down, to be more like an APA, but black. What would you call that then? Dark Brown Ale? Hoppy porter?


----------



## Blind Dog (23/7/14)

Phoney said:


> There damn well should be.
> 
> Black IPA or Cascadian Dark ale, or whatever the hell you call them is one of my favourite styles. Yet I can't sit around and drink a >6% hop monster all night. So I scale them down, to be more like an APA, but black. What would you call that then? Dark Brown Ale? Hoppy porter?


Why not just black ale or dark ale if that's what it is? black pale ale is odd as its either black or pale it can't be both.


----------



## Phoney (23/7/14)

It makes just as little sense as Black IPA, do you have a problem with that too?

And the name Black Ale has already been claimed:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/2012/05/15/black-ale-as-a-beer-category/


----------



## JJB (24/7/14)

Well it's really just an experiment so chill out. I'm just wondering if it is possible to create a beer that is a nice hoppy APA but that is black without any roastyness at all. I'm not interested in using any type of colouring either. It's more a gimmick type of thing


----------



## JJB (24/7/14)

Maybe call it an oxymoron ale


----------



## rehab (24/7/14)

I made a BIPA with no real roast coming through. I used the method of chucking carafa 3 in for the last 10 minutes of the mash. Was a cracking beer for sure!


----------



## hijukal (25/7/14)

Blind Dog said:


> Why not just black ale or dark ale if that's what it is? black pale ale is odd as its either black or pale it can't be both.


Isn't pale ale called that because it uses a large portion of pale malt, rather than the pale colour? And black IPA etc called that because they use black malt?

If so, black pale ale makes sense if it's using black malt and pale malt.


----------



## mckenry (25/7/14)

hijukal said:


> Isn't pale ale called that because it uses a large portion of pale malt, rather than the pale colour? And black IPA etc called that because they use black malt?
> 
> If so, black pale ale makes sense if it's using black malt and pale malt.


Nope. Its all about the final colour of the beer. Which is why some people are outraged over Black IPA. I've explained it before, as explained to me, that IPA became known as those 3 letters, (without thinking about what they stand for) as something that is strong in alcohol, hops and flavour. So if you didnt know the P stood for Pale its fine. But it does, so its wrong. Thats why I prefer Cascadian Ale for that particular style.
So the original poster should call their beer Old Ale.


----------



## Phoney (25/7/14)

Well then what's so wrong about Black APA, without thinking what the P stands for?


----------



## Blind Dog (25/7/14)

Phoney said:


> Well then what's so wrong about Black APA, without thinking what the P stands for?


It's so wrong because I'm anal and I can't not think about what the P stands for.

Balck IPA is why I have to take the red pills, Black APA will mean I have to take the green ones too


----------



## Donske (25/7/14)

mckenry said:


> Nope. Its all about the final colour of the beer. Which is why some people are outraged over Black IPA. I've explained it before, as explained to me, that IPA became known as those 3 letters, (without thinking about what they stand for) as something that is strong in alcohol, hops and flavour. So if you didnt know the P stood for Pale its fine. But it does, so its wrong. Thats why I prefer Cascadian Ale for that particular style.
> So the original poster should call their beer Old Ale.



I think I'll keep calling the monster I have on tap right now an Imperial Black Rye*P*A, and each glass will taste a little better knowing that somewhere someone is getting upset by something so inconsequential.


----------



## JasonP (25/7/14)

Might brew a black irish red ale this weekend!


----------



## Phoney (25/7/14)

Black blondes are better. Or is it black blondes have more fun?


----------



## Blind Dog (25/7/14)

JasonP said:


> Might brew a black irish red ale this weekend!


Nurse!


----------



## danestead (25/7/14)

If you want a black pale ale without the flavour, cant you just close your eyes while you drink it? Im confused as to why you would want to change the coloir of a beer just for the sake of changing the colour of the beer?


----------



## Phoney (25/7/14)

Most brewers do seem to care about colour for some reason.


----------



## StalkingWilbur (25/7/14)

Yeah, I don't understand wanting to make it black with none of the associated flavors either. 

I don't care if you call something a black IPA and I don't understand people that do. Cascadian dark ale sounds completely wankerish.


----------



## Donske (25/7/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Yeah, I don't understand wanting to make it black with none of the associated flavors either.
> 
> I don't care if you call something a black IPA and I don't understand people that do. Cascadian dark ale sounds completely wankerish.



Spot on, also, calling it a Cascadian Dark Ale means that every time you offer someone a beer you'll need to explain that it's basically IPA with some roasted/black malt, surely it's easier to just call it a black IPA.


----------



## Blind Dog (26/7/14)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Yeah, I don't understand wanting to make it black with none of the associated flavors either.
> I don't care if you call something a black IPA and I don't understand people that do. Cascadian dark ale sounds completely wankerish.


Just to be clear, I couldn't give a monkeys what you or anyone else call your/their beer. But it can't be Pale and Black at the same time, it's a law or an old charter or something. It's like saying a politician is honest, the earth is flat or that Ian Thorpe is straight; you can say it, but it isn't true.

And we are way off topic

If the OP ever reads this thread again, IMO cold steeping roasted grains will add colour without too much roast flavour, but it will add some. And that's a good thing as others have pointed out


----------



## Crouch (26/7/14)

Donske said:


> I think I'll keep calling the monster I have on tap right now an Imperial Black Rye*P*A, and each glass will taste a little better knowing that somewhere someone is getting upset by something so inconsequential.


 +1 ... had a good laugh at this one. I'll pour one for you good chap.

Cheers


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (26/7/14)

Donske said:


> I think I'll keep calling the monster I have on tap right now an Imperial Black Rye*P*A, and each glass will taste a little better knowing that somewhere someone is getting upset by something so inconsequential.


You could call it " Black the Rypa"


----------



## mje1980 (26/7/14)

I'm going to start calling my saisons "pale stout"


----------



## manticle (26/7/14)

I'm going to bed.


----------



## Mardoo (26/7/14)

How about white stout?

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/white-stout-444036/


----------



## surly (26/7/14)

Mardoo said:


> How about white stout?
> 
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/white-stout-444036/


I had one last Good Beer Week.
One of the breweries made a cloudy, white beer. It was full bodied, roasty, creamy etc. They called it a white stout or white porter or something.


----------



## Phoney (26/7/14)

Young Henrys and Doctors orders put out a collaboration "white stout". It was neither white nor tasted like a stout. Sorry boys, a decent beer but calling it a stout was a gimmick.


----------



## peas_and_corn (26/7/14)

People making pale stout are just being silly. In the 19th century stout must meant strong- so you had Brown stout, pale stout and so on. Over time it came to be associated with dark beers only and thus is used to describe the styles we stick to word stout in front of today. 

Shit like this is why craft Brewers look like hipster wankers at times. Using an anachronistic definition of a word purely for marketing/wank factor is just so annoying


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (26/7/14)

Mardoo said:


> How about white stout?
> 
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/white-stout-444036/


I think your getting confused with milk stout....


----------

