# Fermentation Cabinet?



## iralosavic (26/10/11)

G'day,

I'm in the research stage before setting up to brew for the first time. A friend who no longer has the time is lending me his $80 Coopers "starter kit" with 300 long necks. I'm keen to transition to All Grain brewing as soon as I can afford to, so any financial outlays I make now I would prefer to remain useful investments as my brewery advances. This brings me to the topic of building a fermentation cabinet. I just have a few quick questions.


1. Fridge Vs Freezer - I see a lot of people arguing that a freezer is a superior choice, but I can't find any reason beyond it offering better insulation. What else is there to consider? (I'm having a hard time finding a second hand freezer with removable shelves in my price range).

2. Using a starter kit style plastic bucket with glass airlock, does a total seal on the cabinet door cause oxygen deprivation? Is a breather line through the seal to the exterior necessary or something?

3. Where is the best place to mount the thermostat probe when using a temp controller with compressor delay protection? I was thinking it would be best submerged in a donor glas of liquid to represent the wert temp closer than ambient temp.

4. Is it possible to wire a dual stage (heat/cool) controller in a manner other than hacking the power cord so that the rest of the functions of the fridge/freezer operate when cooling is deactivated?


I did search, but while there were a few threads touching upon some of my questions, I was still left with doubts in my mind.

Thanks in advance. This is a rather demanding first post, but I daresay I will be around here a lot as soon as I get set up.



Cheers!


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## kelbygreen (26/10/11)

1. fridge is the most popular, As you found a upright freezer usually uses some shelves for cooling. A chest freezer you gotto lift fermenters in and out. But a fridge just remove and make heavier shelving and you can get 2 fermenters in a decent one for like $50 off ebay or gumtree

2. your fermenter is air tight so it wont let oxygen in. The fermentation creates CO2 (carbon dioxide) so when it bubbles it pushes all the CO out until its full of CO2 so with the fermenter full of CO2 it wont matter if outside the fermenter has CO although you will open the fridge every now and then anyway so will let more in. 

3. Get some styrofoam and shape it so it sits flat on the fermenter (so its shaped a little round) then dig a little out so the probe part sits into it but isnt lose. Now put the probe in the little grove and tap the foam to the fermenter. The reason the grove is not to deep is the probe wants to be squashed up againts the fermenter so it reads the fermenter temp.

4. Get a stc1000 you wire the temp control unit up so it has 3 plugs (normal lead plugs) 1 plug male (this hooks upto your lead to supply power) and 2 plugs female (these you plug the fridge into the cooling plug and the heating into the heating plug) no need to chop the power lead on the fridge. You can unplug the temp controller plug the fridge lead into the power point and it works like it always did.


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## iralosavic (27/10/11)

kelbygreen said:


> 1. fridge is the most popular, As you found a upright freezer usually uses some shelves for cooling. A chest freezer you gotto lift fermenters in and out. But a fridge just remove and make heavier shelving and you can get 2 fermenters in a decent one for like $50 off ebay or gumtree
> 
> 2. your fermenter is air tight so it wont let oxygen in. The fermentation creates CO2 (carbon dioxide) so when it bubbles it pushes all the CO out until its full of CO2 so with the fermenter full of CO2 it wont matter if outside the fermenter has CO although you will open the fridge every now and then anyway so will let more in.
> 
> ...



Many thanks for the reply. I think there is a process after fermentation before racking where you drop the temp down to 0 or a bit below quickly and this may be why some people prefer a freezer. I'm sure I can get by without doing this though and I could just buy a freezer later down the track if I later discover a need for it. That being said, fridges without freezer compartments aren't easy to find second hand either, as they are usually a part of a pigeon pair (which blows out the budget too).

Thanks for clarifying the breathing concern. I thought it may have breathed O2 in and converted it to C02, but if it's just using the O2 that is contained within the wort, then no dramas!

I like your styrofoam idea, however, I just had another idea. I could drill a hole in the side of the bucket to suit a thermowell, using an appropriate o-ring to seal it. Then I could plug the probe in and out of the thermowell at the beginning and end of each batch. Only adds another $30 and when I move onto a new fermenting vessel, I can just transfer the thermowell.

I had not previously seen the stc1000. I had my eyes on a "beermate", but the stc1000 is $25 delivered and the wiring technique you mentioned sounds like even I could do it! Do you know if they come with a temperature probe? 


There are some suitable fridge/freezer auctions ending before the weekend, so fingers crossed! I've also got plans to create an immersion chiller, which will be useful right from the start to the end, as I plan on using whirlpool immersion chilling even in my dream setup.






Hope you enjoy my precision engineered prototype blueprint.


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## stux (27/10/11)

iralosavic said:


> G'day,
> 
> I'm in the research stage before setting up to brew for the first time. A friend who no longer has the time is lending me his $80 Coopers "starter kit" with 300 long necks. I'm keen to transition to All Grain brewing as soon as I can afford to, so any financial outlays I make now I would prefer to remain useful investments as my brewery advances. This brings me to the topic of building a fermentation cabinet. I just have a few quick questions.
> 
> ...



I would go with a fridge. Fridge's are designed to run above freezing so have provisions for condensation. Freezer's don't.

Best to go an all-fridge so that you don't end up with a dysfunctional freezer compartment using up fridge capacity



> 2. Using a starter kit style plastic bucket with glass airlock, does a total seal on the cabinet door cause oxygen deprivation? Is a breather line through the seal to the exterior necessary or something?



Fermenters with airlocks are supposed to keep the air out anyway, so it doesn't matter.



> 3. Where is the best place to mount the thermostat probe when using a temp controller with compressor delay protection? I was thinking it would be best submerged in a donor glas of liquid to represent the wert temp closer than ambient temp.



Few options

In the airpsace, which results in massive fluctuations every time you open the door

In a surrogate vessel. The problem is yeast cause substantial heat during the first phase of fermentation and you won't be registering that so won't be able to keep them in the optimal range

Attached to the fermenter. Good solution, doesn't require modification to fermenter

In the fermenter. Use a thermowell and position the sensor IN the wort. This will get you the actual reading of the wort. The benefits are that you won't get swings when you open the door, and you will have the most accurate reading. I find that if I use a heatbelt combined with the fridge I can keep the fermentation in a very tight temperature band.



> 4. Is it possible to wire a dual stage (heat/cool) controller in a manner other than hacking the power cord so that the rest of the functions of the fridge/freezer operate when cooling is deactivated?



The controller will always work by turning the heat/cool sources on/off, but you can wire it up with sockets/plugs so its removable.


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## iralosavic (28/10/11)

Thanks a lot for your replies! You've helped clarify a few doubts that will really help me make some sensible decisions


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## mmmyummybeer (28/10/11)

I've also got plans to create an immersion chiller, which will be useful right from the start to the end, as I plan on using whirlpool immersion chilling even in my dream setup.






I use a immersion chiller set up like your diagram after my boil and it works pretty good. However with the ice slurry I use tap temp water in when I first start chilling, and only add the ice towards the end, when there is not as much temperature difference between the wort and tap water. It will still obviously work with ice in it but I find its just a waste of ice and better of added later. But otherwise good luck.


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## yochris77 (18/5/17)

I'm looking at a fermenting cabinet now too. Managed to get my first brew fermented but it was a bit of a dodgy cowboy operation. I am looking for my stc1000 which was put in a safe place somewhere! What does everyone use for a heat source? A light bulb?


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## earle (18/5/17)

Reptile heat pad


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## dblunn (18/5/17)

I used an old heat belt in my bar fridge that holds a single 30 L fermenter with an STC1000 in a box on top. The only thing I would change is to have an on-off switch included as when I m not using the chamber I turn off the STC 1000 and leave the door ajar to stop the mould forming but if there is a power outage the unit switches back on when the power comes back on and goes to the last setting which is usually 1 C from the cold crash. Anyway the poor thing starts up and tries to get to 1 C with the door open, not gonna work. Another solution is to turn it off at the gpo but that is not an option on my setup.


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## Black Devil Dog (18/5/17)

Shouldn't need a heat source in Brisbane. You want to keep the fermentation temps around 18 deg for ales and 12 for lagers. 

Winter time temperatures in SE Qld are ideal for brewing.

Get an old fridge and dig out your stc1000.


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## ianh (19/5/17)

yochris77 said:


> I'm looking at a fermenting cabinet now too. Managed to get my first brew fermented but it was a bit of a dodgy cowboy operation. I am looking for my stc1000 which was put in a safe place somewhere! What does everyone use for a heat source? A light bulb?


I use two light bulbs at the bottom of the fridge, then have a solid shelf above to hold the fermenters.


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## mofox1 (19/5/17)

yochris77 said:


> I'm looking at a fermenting cabinet now too. Managed to get my first brew fermented but it was a bit of a dodgy cowboy operation. I am looking for my stc1000 which was put in a safe place somewhere! What does everyone use for a heat source? A light bulb?


Reptile cord in one, snaked (ba-dom-tish!) thru the shelf slots and light bulb in the other.

I've actually just bought another repile cord to replace the light bulb one because 40w incandescent globes are getting harder to source.


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## koshari (19/5/17)

mofox1 said:


> Reptile cord in one, snaked (ba-dom-tish!) thru the shelf slots and light bulb in the other.
> 
> I've actually just bought another repile cord to replace the light bulb one *because 40w incandescent globes are getting harder to source.*


you can get little 40w heaters on ebay, they just screw into an ES fitting.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/25-100W-220V-Infrared-Emitter-Ceramic-Heated-Bulb-Heater-Lamp-for-Pet-Reptile-/272616208490?var=&hash=item3f7931386a:m:m533lJhuLBqZvazOjSH1obA


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## yochris77 (20/5/17)

Thanks guys.


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## dibbz (20/5/17)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Shouldn't need a heat source in Brisbane.


I measured 13c - 30c on the day/night of the 16th, my heat belt has been getting some use and it's only May.

My 2c is insulate one side of the temp probe and stick it to the side of the FV under a packet of blue tac so it's measuring the actual beer temp.


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## 2cranky (20/5/17)

iralosavic said:


> G'day,
> 
> I'm in the research stage before setting up to brew for the first time. A friend who no longer has the time is lending me his $80 Coopers "starter kit" with 300 long necks. I'm keen to transition to All Grain brewing as soon as I can afford to, so any financial outlays I make now I would prefer to remain useful investments as my brewery advances. This brings me to the topic of building a fermentation cabinet. I just have a few quick questions.
> 
> ...


Hey mate I actually went the other way and found an upright freezer, I get two 30l fermenters in this. It's a Kelvinator 300l no frost. So it has an internal fan and no coils in the shelves. My reasoning for this is a lot of old fridges struggle to get down to 2c which is what you want to cold crash to before kegging. It works well with an stc1000, I use a folded up bit of paper towel gaffer taped to the side of the fermenter seems to work ok. I have only once needed any heat and putting a container of hot water in the bottom of the freezer was enough to boost it. On this occasion the freezer was still cold from the 2c temp before I chucked the new batch in, so I don't think I'll need to heat tooo often.
The stc1000 just wire up to your mains and you plug your freezer into that so there is no need to play with the appliance wiring. But you will need to wire the stc or get a sparky to do it.
I also chill my kettle the way you've drawn. I get to pitching temps in around 15 minutes. The coil in the kettle is a double using a whole roll of copper. The one in the pre chill is only half. The whole lot just snaps together using hose fittings. You just need to keep in mind that it chills best when the liquid is moving around. So jiggle the prechill when you have it to ice stage and use the mash paddle to keep the wort moving. I use the small 1/2 litre Tupperware containers to make nice sized ice blocks as well. Milk container etc are to big and don't cool nearly as well.


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## Black Devil Dog (20/5/17)

dibbz said:


> I measured 13c - 30c on the day/night of the 16th, my heat belt has been getting some use and it's only May.
> 
> My 2c is insulate one side of the temp probe and stick it to the side of the FV under a packet of blue tac so it's measuring the actual beer temp.


With temperatures in that range you most definitely shouldn't need a heat belt.


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## TidalPete (20/5/17)

Black Devil Dog said:


> Shouldn't need a heat source in Brisbane. You want to keep the fermentation temps around 18 deg for ales and 12 for lagers.
> 
> Winter time temperatures in SE Qld are ideal for brewing.


You do if you brew Saisons all year round. 
Sipping on a 3724 Mango Saison as I type.


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## Batz (20/5/17)

TidalPete said:


> You do if you brew Saisons all year round.
> Sipping on a 3724 Mango Saison as I type.


Agree with Pete, I'm in S.E. Queensland as is Pete and I use a heat source for Saisons and Sours.
I guess if you don't brew these you may not need such things.

Nice lager brewing weather ATM.


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## Black Devil Dog (20/5/17)

TidalPete said:


> You do if you brew Saisons all year round.
> Sipping on a 3724 Mango Saison as I type.


And it's a big IF.


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## beachsidebrewer (27/1/19)

yochris77 said:


> I'm looking at a fermenting cabinet now too. Managed to get my first brew fermented but it was a bit of a dodgy cowboy operation. I am looking for my stc1000 which was put in a safe place somewhere! What does everyone use for a heat source? A light bulb?


Ive a spare water bed heater mat. If anyone needs it. Hooked up to to the stc it works great or even kk yemp control


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