# A Mutating Little Creature



## Robrewin (30/8/11)

Hi All, I thought I'd relate my experience last weekend at the LC brewery in Fremantle. I dropped in for lunch and to search out their seasonal beer, which is currently a strong stout of around 7% ABV.(Or was,as they were down to less than 200 litres on Saturday). I thought it was very good; intense, malty and with a charry, burnt character in the background. BUT! The real surprise was when I had a Pale Ale direct from the brewery. I've been drinking this beer almost since they opened and I must say I have come to miss the good old days of grapefruity goodness (Chinook) that opened the eyes of myself and my friends to American hops. Although the hops currently used are nice, they just don't do it for me like the original recipe. This seems to be especially true for the bottled version, which in the past I preferred to draft. 

Well, at the brewery at least, something seemed to be up in this creature's habitat. The Pale Ale burst forth with a mix of fruity, spicy hops and backnotes that were something like ginger and lemongrass. I can't say exactly, but could this be some Simcoe in the famous Pale? Or even a tiny bit of something further out like Sorachi Ace? I didn't detect as much honey-like malt and the finish was more succinct than the bottled pale, but I must say that it grabbed my attention and I was even more pleasantly surprised than with the stout. I asked the barman if and why it could be different and he said it was "brewed to a template" which suggests there is a bit of wiggle room for experimentation.

Has anyone else had a similar experience lately?


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## mje1980 (30/8/11)

Maybe its because you drank a 7% stout, and then went to a pale ale?. 

Barley and hops are grown, so you can never expect to have exact consistency year to year. I have some amarillo that just doesnt really do it for me, just missing the yummy amarilloness the last batch i used had.


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## O'Henry (30/8/11)

Yeah, it was different last week. Great tasting batch imo. Everyone should get down and try it before the server blows.


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## Alex T (31/8/11)

Hey,

I have done a bit of investigating.... this was in fact a little bit of a trial - was Pale Ale dry hopped with a bit of Stella from Tasmania. We are currently experiementing with that hop and are really liking it... Might become a permanent fixture in the hop blend one of these days. The pale is also getting a bit of Riwaka from time to time which is great, and we actually air freighted in some Chinook cones recently - so after the Riwaka runs out we'll tweak these into the recipe.

Now that I've found this out, I will make sure I have a pint of Pale Ale later today! (as I happen to be in Fremantle)

Cheers,

Alex


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## schooey (31/8/11)

Not having much time to brew in the past long time, LCPA has been my go to beer for a slab. Lately I've been referring to it as 'grabbing a box of chocolates'.... you never know what you're gonna get! This kind of perplexes me to a point. I see the big brewers going to great lengths, and costs, to achieve consistency in their batches for the fear of customers walking away from their brand, but LC do it at will... :unsure:


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## Liam_snorkel (31/8/11)

so these experimental batches are making it into slabs, not just on tap at the brewery?


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## schooey (31/8/11)

From what I taste, it seems so. Be interesting to know for sure. But it certainly has gone from the earthy base bitterness of the EKG and the stonefruity fresh American hops in the early days to a more zesty finish with something different in the middle these days. Sure, I know travel to this side of the world and how it's treated can all come into it, but I've been drinking a slab of this a fortnight for a fair old while and there have been some not so subtle differences between boxes.

So much so that I have bought a couple of cartons of S &W Pacific Ale lately. I can see me drinking a lot of that when it warms up a bit.... :icon_drool2:


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## argon (31/8/11)

Alex T said:


> ....snip...
> which is great, and we actually air freighted in some Chinook cones recently - so after the Riwaka runs out we'll tweak these into the recipe.
> ...snip..



Fantastic!!! Perhaps Pale Ale Classic :icon_drool2:


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## eamonnfoley (31/8/11)

Hi Alex T - love LCPA, and the pils has been great recently. But something is bugging me when I visit the brewery. What volume of CO2 do you have in the serving tanks at Freo? Everytime I go there I can't help but think my beer is overcarbonated. The head never dies down and the beers seem to have a carbonic bite that overpowers the hop character.


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## Swordsman (31/8/11)

schooey said:


> From what I taste, it seems so. Be interesting to know for sure. But it certainly has gone from the earthy base bitterness of the EKG and the stonefruity fresh American hops in the early days to a more zesty finish with something different in the middle these days. Sure, I know travel to this side of the world and how it's treated can all come into it, but I've been drinking a slab of this a fortnight for a fair old while and there have been some not so subtle differences between boxes.
> 
> So much so that I have bought a couple of cartons of S &W Pacific Ale lately. I can see me drinking a lot of that when it warms up a bit.... :icon_drool2:



I dont' buy much beer these days (i quite like my own thankyou...) but as a loyal fan of LC Pale Ale (well all LC really) i continue to be amazed with just how much they 'modify' this much loved and i would assume money spinning beer. I think its pretty cool in a way and its great that so many true beer fans obviously enjoy the mutating versions as you put it since it keeps selling. But, at the same time, as someone that only comes back to it ever few months or even rarer (usually i buy a 6 pack or maybe on tap at a bar) it is quite disconcerting. I still reckon the LC PA 'classic' with a good wack of chinook was the best...and no other versions i have tried convince me otherwise. I haven't had one recently so might go grab some this week to see if i can detect the changes you alude to. 

I realise that natural ingredients change (anyone that has ever brewed their own beer knows this) and its all part of the fun but why on earth anyone would willingly modify the beer from the original version i have no idea....playing around is what the single batch's are for.... That bitter base, clean malt flavour and fruity grapefruit hit is what LC PA was always about....its still a great beer but it aint the same as it once was.


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## super_simian (31/8/11)

If you want something which never changes (or changes only when the bean counters have to justify their pay,) buy CUB. Otherwise, go with the flow. Real ingredients change from season to season, and we should all be cool with that.


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## mckenry (31/8/11)

super_simian said:


> If you want something which never changes (or changes only when the bean counters have to justify their pay,) buy CUB. Otherwise, go with the flow. Real ingredients change from season to season, and we should all be cool with that.



Mostly we are. But what is being discussed here are total changes, like hop types, not just the same hop, year to year. Doing this really makes it a different beer, not just a slight change due to season.


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## mckenry (2/9/11)

This thread inspired me to try LCPA again. Had it on tap at the Pyrmont Point Hotel Sydney. ($15 jugs)
Was really good. Not sure which 'mutant' it was, but very drinkable regardless.
mckenry


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## Shed101 (2/9/11)

If you have true brand presence then you can afford to tweak the product without too much fear.

Sometimes tweaks are for economy, other times they're innovative and sometimes they're accidental (as happened at a popular British brewery when the maltsters supplied the malt to the wrong spec and royally fucked up the beer).

Sounds like innovation (possibly under cover of economy) is going on here. Nice.

Consistency to some degree is shorthand for homgoneity. I don't ever want to brew two exact brews, it's supposed to be a product derived from nature isn't it?

And that's exactly what the good people at LC want us to think, presumably. :lol:


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## randyrob (2/9/11)

Lurve the current batch of Pale Ale on tap at the Brewery in Fremantle, definately a step back in the right direction.


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## Snowdog (3/9/11)

Being that finding it on tap in Brisbane seems to be hit & miss, I usually buy the LCPA slabs for the fridge. I've always contended that this beer changes. Always seems to be good, but when I find one that tastes exceptional, I note the date code on the bottle and seek it out. A guy at Dan's once thought I was nuts for digging out the slabs to get a certain date code that happened to be left in the back of the pile. Seems April 2010 was a good vintage. Last November seemed good too. Wish I was in Freemantle to have a pint of the current mutation.


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## Alex T (3/9/11)

Hi Guys,

foles - the CO2 should only be around 4.8 - 5g/L, but the carbonation will depend a little bit upon the secondary conditioning. No doubt it'll change the next time you are there.

Generally about the hops.... I should highlight - the use of Riwaka, Chinook, Stella, etc is done in small amounts to try and adjust the general hop aroma/hop flavour. We do strive for consistency... but sort of in the pursuit of perfection at the same time. Everything is a balancing act.

The general flavour of the beer is of course impacted by all sorts of things - how the brewer brewed it, age of the hops, yeast count at fermentation, packaging, transport, etc - it is a bottle conditioned beer with live yeast, so the beer you have at one point no doubt evolves as the weeks go by. 

Someone asked why we moved away from Chinook a while back - the answer is simple - the world was short of hops and we couldn't get any!?! Yes, it's true..... sometimes there just isn't the hop varieties you want when you want them. At the moment there are serious shortages out of the US on Chinook, Simcoe, Citra, Cascade, amongst others. We moved to Galaxy about 3 years ago (great hop by the way) which replaced chinook - but both hops play a "supporting role" to the main charge of Cascade. The other varieties I mentioned above also are just a tweak. The EKG charge has been consistent all the way through....

Anyway, glad there is some attention to what we do - we are constantly trying to not only maintain the beer quality, but in fact improve it. This is also a reason for us building the new brewery in Geelong - to have fresher beer on the East Coast to match the fresh beer on the West Coast. 

Cheers!

Alex


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## O'Henry (4/9/11)

Stellllllllllllllllaaaaaa!!!

Didn't want to say it earlier, but feel now it is appropriate.


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## Robrewin (6/9/11)

Hi again everyone,
Well, had a busy week and was glad to see that the post kicked off a lively discussion. Thanks for all the inside info Alex T. If this was an "experiment" then I'd say it was a roaring success. It really brought some wow factor to the PA without making it any less drinkable. I'm also fascinated to hear that there is some D Saaz Riwaka going in as I have some waiting in the freezer for a first trial batch! The Chinook brews will also be very interesting. In my view, this variation is vastly preferable to simply switching to a "similar" substitute when an ingredient is no longer viable or available. Looks like another trip to Freo is due...

As for the idea of brewing the same thing twice, I also never do this in my homebrewing. I'm always too excited by another idea or a new hop, yeast etc or like the idea of drinking something different. That said, I can see just how important consistency is when you are establishing a brand and am hoping to learn how to brew with just this consistency from Hugh next year


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## sav (23/9/11)

Savs coming to freo

Be there on th 7th of october for my bithday for 3 days and try to get to ferel.Whos keen too catch up for a beer or 2 .

Flying out to bali after that for 10 nights.Me and the missus away for a rest from being great parents yay a break for once.

I cant wait to have a beer not too here Dad Im hungry,Dad Im thirsty,Dad Im bored .

Pease and quiet.

I will miss Dustyn my little man so much but we all need a break.

sava.


I rang the brewery and they said the next single batch should be on tap,Double IPA hell yeh

sav


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## Tony (24/9/11)

I was at the LC brewery a couple weeks back and i must say....... after many years of dissapointment in LCPA, I think they have got it right now!

I loved the trial batch dry hopped with Simcoe as well, delicious!

I bought a 6 pack before i went over west to test the "it doesnt travel" theory and i can confirm that the bottled beer on the eastern side is the same, and as good as at the brewery.

cheers


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## Brewer_010 (24/9/11)

> I bought a 6 pack before i went over west to test the "it doesnt travel" theory and i can confirm that the bottled beer on the eastern side is the same, and as good as at the brewery.



the travel is fine, it'd be the sitting on the back of a semi for a week in the hot sun that does it..

sounds like a good one - I must try this at some stage.


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