# Iron Brew



## speedie (2/12/10)

heres a chance for you gun brewers
this would be right up on the doctors list
http://www.microbrewing.com.au/index.php?o...4&Itemid=85


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## earle (2/12/10)

speedie said:


> heres a chance for you gun brewers
> this would be right up on the doctors list
> http://www.microbrewing.com.au/index.php?o...4&Itemid=85



Which doctor? There's at least 3 here regularly.

You seem to have a preoccupation with competions and performing tests to prove that one beer is better than another. Can't you just relax and brew and drink beer that you like without having to feel the need to prove that your beer is the best.


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## QldKev (2/12/10)

So speedie are you entering it?

or are you just full of sh!t with your knowledge and $600 tools  

QldKev


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## bum (2/12/10)

QldKev said:


> So speedie are you entering it?
> 
> or are you just full of sh!t


I assure you that these are not mutually exclusive conditions.


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## np1962 (2/12/10)

Bum in a dribble shit parade :lol: :lol: 

Not commenting on the accuracy of the statement, just laughing my ass off.


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## brettprevans (2/12/10)

so its a clone brew comp? not exactly 'iron chef' comparrison. but good enough. 
so which of you AHB sandgropers is entering?

Kev - I think Bum was on your side.


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## bum (2/12/10)

CM2 was spot on there, Kev. I wasn't having a dig at you at all.

For the record: no, I am not entering a comp to clone a beer I've never had. I'm not terribly motivated to enter comps of any kind to be honest.

[EDIT: removed Kev's quote]


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## QldKev (2/12/10)

bum said:


> CM2 was spot on there, Kev. I wasn't having a dig at you at all.
> 
> For the record: no, I am not entering a comp to clone a beer I've never had. I'm not terribly motivated to enter comps of any kind to be honest.



bum; apologies are in order. I totally mistook that and now I reread it, I am wrong. Teaches me for posting quick responses while doing other things. Your response back is a credit to you, rather than becoming an Internet tough guy; you accepted my mistake.

QldKev


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## bum (2/12/10)

No problem, Kev. My post might seem a little vague to anyone unaware that speedie and I have a history of sorts and I can see why you might think I'd jump down your throat for no reason.


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## Bribie G (2/12/10)

Bugger, I thought this post was to clone IRN BRU, used to love that stuff in the UK - it actually outsells Coke in Scotland and is recently well known for its outrageous totally non PC outdoor advertising hoardings :lol:


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## mwd (2/12/10)

IRN Bru made from girders. I always thought it tasted very similar to 'Tizer' :icon_offtopic:


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## Bribie G (2/12/10)

this whole thread's off topic 

Tizer is great, a few years ago our local IGA imported a heap of tizer and dandelion and burdock for the retired Pom community here. In Sydney it's also available from the UK shop at Warringah Mall (if they are still going) - I'll grab a few when I'm down there next.


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## jbirbeck (2/12/10)

Irn bru is great.

never had iron brew but keen to have a go at brewing it. I do find it fascinating that the details have only just come out for it and its an old ale referencing aged characters :huh: 

Looking at the ingredients list with a high charge of pale malt with generous proportion of dark crystal and a touch of roast along with a high mash temp, it would be quite a challenge to make the beer drinkable without being cloying.

Also interesting that the old ale recipe refers to a judicious use of crystal while the Iron Brew refers to generous use of dark crystal. very different things.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/12/10)

speedie said:


> heres a chance for you gun brewers
> this would be right up on the doctors list
> http://www.microbrewing.com.au/index.php?o...4&Itemid=85


Come on guy's this is a legit competition and should be given a go. We need to get this info out to all the brewers that are interest so if you can hold back on the OT stuff its appreciated. I am in a small way helping promote this comp at a later stage when the recipe details are given out.
No association with speedie etc yada yada
GB


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## Bribie G (2/12/10)

Yes, sounds a bit like my Old Speckled Hen attempt, on steroids :beerbang: 
Not too sure about that blackstrap molasses, but I can see a shedload of caraaroma going in there. :icon_cheers:


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## mckenry (2/12/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> No association with speedie etc yada yada
> GB



:lol: :lol: :lol: I've never read anyone giving a 'no association' with another member :lol:


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## Bribie G (2/12/10)

On topic, GB - how do you register an expression of interest, or will that be after Christmas? Looking at the specs so far I reckon that my Gryphon Bag is well up to the task


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## drsmurto (2/12/10)

Interested to see that up until the Overall Impression section it's word for word the BJCP guidelines for an Old Ale but there is no reference to the BJCP.

Even the AABC acknowledges that the vast majority of the style guidelines for the comp are straight from the BJCP.

Not a big fan of plagiarism. <_<


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/12/10)

BribieG said:


> On topic, GB - how do you register an expression of interest, or will that be after Christmas? Looking at the specs so far I reckon that my Gryphon Bag is well up to the task


I have spoken to Matt at the Sail and Anchor and he was saying that at the moment they are getting all the recipe history (this beer hasn't been brewed since 2002) info together like malts hops and yeast. This will be made available to the brewers when they enter and pay their $10.00. 
The comp will be very much Iron Brewer style with all brewers using the same ingredients etc , or at least this is how I understood it.
I will pass on the info as it becomes available. Get your bag ready !  
(Edit) Dam forgot the most vital piece of info this is a CLONE competition hence the handing out on recipe specs.
GB


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## argon (2/12/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I have spoken to Matt at the Sail and Anchor and he was saying that at the moment they are getting all the recipe history (this beer hasn't been brewed since 2002) info together like malts hops and yeast. This will be made available to the brewers when they enter and pay their $10.00.
> The comp will be very much Iron Brewer style with all brewers using the same ingredients etc , or at least this is how I understood it.
> I will pass on the info as it becomes available. Get your bag ready !
> GB



might have to jump in on this sounds like fun... keep us up to speed
Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Bribie G (2/12/10)

As an embellishment maybe they could record which clones are made via HERMS, 3V or BIAB - a massive battle of the Systems to end all battles


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/12/10)

BribieG said:


> As an embellishment maybe they could record which clones are made via HERMS, 3V or BIAB - a massive battle of the Systems to end all battles


Or a never ending shite fight ............. The brewing system that will be used to brew the winners beer will be a single infusion system so that's some thing to keep in mind.  
GB


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## cdbrown (2/12/10)

I'm interested in having a crack at it so waiting for further info. Will be my first comp. 

You gonna sell the ingredients for this comp nice and cheap GB?


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## jbirbeck (2/12/10)

my 'guess at the recipe based on the specs

86% Pale, 13% crystal and 1% roast
Styrian (not ideal bittering but they mention noble...) bitter to 42.5 IBU then 1.5g/l at 5


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## keifer33 (2/12/10)

This sounds like an incredibly interesting idea and a challenge is always good.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/12/10)

cdbrown said:


> I'm interested in having a crack at it so waiting for further info. Will be my first comp.
> 
> You gonna sell the ingredients for this comp nice and cheap GB?


 Mate as always 'nice and cheap', only problem is I dont know what the ingredients are yet. The only certain I do know is that the yeast will be a dry one. My guess is it will be made with an Aussie Pale malt as a base.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/12/10)

I have just been informed that the Sail & Anchor Iron Brew competition web page will be completed by Monday 6th December. All the required info will be there. This is looking like being a very big event . I will post the link when it becomes available.
GB


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## outbreak (2/12/10)

Sounds like fun, it will be my first comp! That would be amazing being able to brew a larger batch of your beer and have it on tap!


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## Bizier (2/12/10)

I am glad I saw this when I did. I will enter it for sure. It forces me to get some repeatable process down after moving west. Good stuff.


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## BjornJ (2/12/10)

BribieG said:


> Bugger, I thought this post was to clone IRN BRU, used to love that stuff in the UK - it actually outsells Coke in Scotland and is recently well known for its outrageous totally non PC outdoor advertising hoardings :lol:
> 
> View attachment 42527
> 
> ...




screw the competition, those are some cool ads!!!

*What is this iron brew, some kind of super strong cheap ass lager like Tennent's Super Strong Lager?*

(which I still have not tried, growing up in Norway we never really got the English cheap stuff, only the traditional purity law 100% all malt stuff)

Bjorn


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## Silo Ted (2/12/10)

I'm in - if interstate entries are allowed. 

So this is strictly for the style outlined in 19A of the BJCP style guidelines ? May have to get something done soon so it can age for a while.


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## hoppinmad (2/12/10)

1ST PLACE Brews a 40 keg batch in a local brewery, of their IRON BREW clone to go on tap at the Sail and Anchor!

2ND PLACE receives a keg of Sail & Anchor IPA. 

3rd PLACE receives $100 cash. 



Second place almost seems better than first place to me!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/12/10)

HoppinMad said:


> 1ST PLACE Brews a 40 keg batch in a local brewery, of their IRON BREW clone to go on tap at the Sail and Anchor!
> 
> 2ND PLACE receives a keg of Sail & Anchor IPA.
> 
> ...


Yeah I be happy with second too, beats emptying mash/lauter tuns. Mind you 1st would give you pretty good bragging rites.
GB


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## Bribie G (2/12/10)

Bjorn, off topic but IRN BRU is a Scottish soft drink that tastes a bit like Creaming Soda


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## skippy (3/12/10)

HoppinMad said:


> 1ST PLACE Brews a 40 keg batch in a local brewery, of their IRON BREW clone to go on tap at the Sail and Anchor!
> 
> 2ND PLACE receives a keg of Sail & Anchor IPA.
> 
> ...




first place brews 40L (or do they mean HL)......

must be a small brewery !!!!!!!!


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## Hatchy (3/12/10)

1st place brews a 40 keg batch, about 2000L.


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## hoppinmad (3/12/10)

BribieG said:


> Bjorn, off topic but IRN BRU is a Scottish soft drink that tastes a bit like Creaming Soda



Used to mix it with Fosters when living in London. Surprisingly nice!


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## speedie (3/12/10)

Well that certainly got all of your attention didnt it

Seems like someone wants to alienate themselves from knowing the enigma 

Do any of you remember the t-shirt that had the iron brew motif on it 

Biceps bulging

Now I can see how beer does infact bring people together

I may enter the comp if I can fit another brew in the coolroom

Cheers speedie

Ps it should have been dogbolter ,in its heyday it kicked arse in the America cup days 

B)


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## hoppinmad (3/12/10)

speedie said:


> Well that certainly got all of your attention didnt it
> 
> Seems like someone wants to alienate themselves from knowing the enigma
> 
> ...



Your posts make no sense to me speedie yet I still get a giggle everytime i read them


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## speedie (3/12/10)

the media does that too ya believe none of what you hear and half of what you see
must go of too work now
enigma bon jewer manure


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## brettprevans (3/12/10)

the actual beer to be cloned sounds like a lighter version of SN Celebration ale?


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## Silo Ted (3/12/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> the actual beer to be cloned sounds like a lighter version of SN Celebration ale?



A mate of mine recently brewed this, and its sitting in my fermenting fridge. The smell when I open the door is amazing. Lets hope he shares some of it with me.  

So can any BJCP experts comment on what style category it would fall into ? The Iron Brew not the SN.


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## sinkas (3/12/10)

If I am correct, the beer has not been brewed comercially in years, so are we relying on the memories of some brewer to determine which one is "cloned"


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## speedie (3/12/10)

Listen too the commotion that has erupted from one small post

Guys and gals do not FORGET who owns the pub 

They dont do anything for us at the browser bottle shop chemist 

Are there is nothing like the smell of capitalism 

It will be brass monkey next

Sounds like wool something!


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## Silo Ted (3/12/10)

sinkas said:


> If I am correct, the beer has not been brewed comercially in years, so are we relying on the memories of some brewer to determine which one is "cloned"



That's a strange comp then. How do we know what to brew, and who are the judges qualified to comment on it being true to style if its some old forgotten beer? 

I thought that the strong ale/19A - Old Ale might be a bit of a guideline for those of us wanting to try our hand at something different. Look at some of the following comparisons between the Iron Brew description and the BJCP description for Old Ale:

IB: very luscious caramel and toffee palate
19A: Flavour: a luscious malt complexity

IB: The aroma should be an intricate array of rich currant-like fruitiness, blackstrap molasses
19A: Aroma: Malty-sweet with fruity esters, often with a complex blend of dried-fruit, vinous, caramelly, molasses

IB: a very full colour, deep copper, with a hint of ruby
19A: Appearance: Light amber to very dark reddish-brown color

IB: (The aroma) /and higher alcohols, more reminiscent of liqueur.
19A: Flavour: oxidative flavors similar to a fine old Sherry, Port or Madeira. Alcoholic strength should be evident

IB: OG 1066, Bitterness 43 IBU, Alc/Vol 7%
19A: Vital Statistics: OG: 1.060 1.090, IBUs: 30 60, ABV: 6 9%

Being very new to the 'official' guidelines on beer styles, maybe Im not reading it right, but the Iron Brew comp sure sounds similar to the Old Ale style.


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## Silo Ted (3/12/10)

speedie said:


> Listen too the commotion that has erupted from one small post
> 
> Guys and gals do not FORGET who owns the pub
> 
> ...



What is your problem, you alerted us to the comp, and there's some interest from some members. You should be happy that people have stopped taking the mickey out of you and are focusing on the original post. 

Just looked at the ownership, The Sail & Anchor in Fremantle is registered as a business of ALH Group Pty Ltd. From memory that's a company that includes about 40 pubs, and was bought out by Woolworths a few years ago. Correct? Either way, their website has a little icon saying "best Beer Venue/Best in State 2010" and theyre holding a comp for homebrewers. So regardless of the sinister commercial backing, a good beer pub that promotes alternatives to megabrews and also recognises small amateurs by holding an obscure comp is a good thing. 

Isn't it?


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## cdbrown (16/12/10)

The site has been updated and when you register they'll send out the original recipe from 1999.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/12/10)

cdbrown said:


> The site has been updated and when you register they'll send out the original recipe from 1999.


I think as a local you have to actually go in a pick up your brew log, all part of the sinister plan to get you in the door . :lol: 
GB


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## earle (16/12/10)

Four months to brew a high alc% brew that as described in the style guidelines 'benefits from extended ageing' means that anyone who is intending to enter should probably get their skates on.


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## Asher (16/12/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I think as a local you have to actually go in a pick up your brew log, all part of the sinister plan to get you in the door . :lol:
> GB



Actually no.

I got my copy by doing the following:

Head off to the Sail and Anchor Website Here

Download and fill out the credit card details form and send it off to [email protected] attn Matt Marinich

A short while later Matt will reply with the brew sheet and your entered

Cheers

Asher


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## mika (16/12/10)

Edit: Asher beat me to it.

As mentioned comp is on ! Brewsheet available via credit card ($10), no need to rock up to the brewery if you're a local, unless of course you want to.
Included with the kit is the Style guide for English Old Ale. At ~7% ABV and 45IBU's, it would certainly benefit from some age, but everyone's going to be in the same boat. Interestingly enough, yeast strain hasn't been identified, so there's a fair bit of room to move.

No matter the ownership of the Sail, the brains behind the comp is a homebrewer and the Sail is typically a craft brew pub. Either way I look at it, it's good exposure for the Craftbrew movement.


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## jbirbeck (16/12/10)

the question is...do you follow the brew log or improve it blazing a new path.


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## np1962 (16/12/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> the question is...do you follow the brew log or improve it blazing a new path.


I'm thinking it needs to be prety close to the original beer, so following the brew log may be neccessary.

Hmmm poster calls for a 330ml bottle while conditions on the site call for 2 X 750ml bottles.

Nige


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## speedie (17/12/10)

i will post two words wool worths 
correct me with i am wrong


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## Hatchy (17/12/10)

speedie said:


> i will post two words wool worths
> correct me with i am wrong



OK.

Woolworths is 1 word
you meant "correct me if I'm wrong"
you should've used a comma instead of the 2nd line
"I" should be upper case
you used normal person font instead of speedie font

Apart from that I can't see too many problems with that post.

The place is owned by woolworths but it's 1 of the best pubs I've been to. There's not that many pubs around that stock a good variety of beer & if I went to WA again I'd be hoping to get back there. Given that you live in Freo I have to assume that either you drink at the sail & anchor or that I missed out on something really special.


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## jbirbeck (17/12/10)

speedie said:


> i will post two words wool worths
> correct me with i am wrong



hatchy you forgot to mention that Spee die posted more than two words. I see 13. 

Never heard of wool worths...is it a new wool shop? I hope they only sell Australian wool.

I like the S&A...nice beer. nice place. nice food. Only place I've been to in Aus that has beer on the hand pump.


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## Simon W (17/12/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> ...
> I like the S&A...nice beer. nice place. nice food. Only place I've been to in Aus that has beer on the hand pump.


Food's ok, but nice wait staff 
One thing that they suck at is service.... they really REALLY need to move meal orders from the bar back to the kitchen the way it was before, let the bar staff do drinks, kitchen staff do meals.
All the staff I've talked to hate the current system, typical management not having a clue.

But yeah, in every other way, great place!
I wouldn't kill the day there(perving ) every Sunday if it weren't.


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## speedie (18/12/10)

Whos in with woolies gig

If you take your voucher you can redeem at least a middy \or one pastie off the shopping bill

Dont forget that they own chemists, liquior stores pubs super marts fuel stops

All the good stuff!

What a monopoly we have to chose from


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## Simon W (19/12/10)

Flogging a dead horse there speedie... no one cares.


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## browndog (19/12/10)

Sorry Simon, 

woolworths have bought out at least one brew pub here in QLD and shut it down. If I were you guys I would tell then to g^$ [email protected]$$^

cheers

Browndog


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## Simon W (19/12/10)

Sorry for what?


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## Silo Ted (19/12/10)

Woolworths main interest in the pub game was probably more about pokie revenue bolstering their profits. 

Which is disgusting, considering how the retail supermarket wing loves to promote themselves as pro-family. 

Speedie, while I thank you for introducing this comp to the forum, the rest of your contributions are just trouble-making rubbish.


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## bum (19/12/10)

They're buying breweries to control pokies? Madness.


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## Silo Ted (19/12/10)

bum said:


> They're buying breweries to control pokies? Madness.



Don't know why I bother responding to you, but more for the interest of other members - the ALH Group of hotels is 70+ % owned by Woolworths Limiited. And the bulk of those hotels operate poker machines. If a handful of those pubs happen to be onsite micro's, it's not their primary profit focus.


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## outbreak (20/12/10)

Well if they bought the Sail and Anchor to increase their profits from pokies they should have done more research as buying a pub to house pokies in WA would be a bit of a failure..... I was at the Sail and Anchor on Saturday and it was busy, beers were flowing and lots of food coming out to tables, I would say they bought it to tap into the the emerging craft beer market. 

These big companies sometimes see that it isn't in their best interest to fight the "craft beer" movement, rather than that they take advantage of it. The same thing with Woolworths and their range of wines they release which look like they are from boutique Margaret River Wineries (see Cow Bombie Wines, which is named after a hectic surf break down in Margs, one would thing it was a up and coming winery but no its owned by Woolworths.) Even in the movie beer wars you see ranges of beers owned by Anheuser-Busch which depict craft beers. At the end of the day there is a market full of people who like something a little bit more special eg craft beer, or local wines and they big companies are trying to take their piece of the cake. 

I don't agree with it and think its terrible that an institution like the Sail and Anchor is owned by ALH, but the beer is good, the waitresses are cute, I can get a beer on hand pump, I got to try an Oak Aged IPA on Saturday, and they are supporting homebrewing by having a competition such as this. Judging by the range of soon to be on tap beers on the board someone there loves beer and has a bit of artistic licence as to how the place is run.


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## Silo Ted (20/12/10)

outbreak said:


> Well if they bought the Sail and Anchor to increase their profits from pokies they should have done more research as buying a pub to house pokies in WA would be a bit of a failure..... I was at the Sail and Anchor on Saturday and it was busy, beers were flowing and lots of food coming out to tables, I would say they bought it to tap into the the emerging craft beer market.



Woolworths didnt specifically buy the Sail & Anchor. They bought a stake in a company that included many, many pubs, most of which have pokies. It wasn't a pick & choose transaction.


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## scbmanner (20/12/10)

NigeP62 said:


> I'm thinking it needs to be prety close to the original beer, so following the brew log may be neccessary.
> 
> Hmmm poster calls for a 330ml bottle while conditions on the site call for 2 X 750ml bottles.
> 
> Nige



Clarified this bit with Matt from S&A. You will need to submit the 2 x 750ml.... 

I'm fairly new to the game, but wondering where the hell to find the Schooner Malt and Wilamette Hops.... 

-Scott


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## speedie (23/12/10)

Why do they need!

 Too control beer, fuel, food, pharmaceutical, and just about every other freaking thing 

Talk about monopoly 

Tax what tax


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## mika (23/12/10)

scottb said:


> Clarified this bit with Matt from S&A. You will need to submit the 2 x 750ml....
> 
> I'm fairly new to the game, but wondering where the hell to find the Schooner Malt and Wilamette Hops....
> 
> -Scott



Schooner malt I don't think you'll find. Something like Joe White Trad Ale malt or similar should be fine as a sub. Willamette hops are fairly easy to get hold of. If your LHBS doesn't have them I'm sure one of the site sponsors will have them.


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## felten (23/12/10)

schooner malt is just a variety of grain, like maris otter/halycon and so on. But you probably won't find it sold as a single origin grain like the others... so what mika said ^


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/12/10)

If they didnt specify the yeast then I dont think it will make any difference what malt or hops you use, "just my take on things".
GB


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## Josh (23/12/10)

Still waiting on my brew log. How long after sending the cc details should I wait?


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## benno1973 (23/12/10)

mika said:


> Schooner malt I don't think you'll find. Something like Joe White Trad Ale malt or similar should be fine as a sub. Willamette hops are fairly easy to get hold of. If your LHBS doesn't have them I'm sure one of the site sponsors will have them.



BB Ale used to be made from Schooner malt a couple of years ago, not sure if it still is.

The recipe calls for Willamette flowers - are NZ Wilamette much different to the US variety? I haven't ever used either.


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## outbreak (23/12/10)

I was a bit surprised that they didn't specify yeast, I was going to use this comp as an excuse to get some sort of English style liquid ale yeast to my just new collection.


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## brendanos (16/1/11)

Re: the judging - a swag of the most decorated judges/brewers of all ages have been roped in to judge the comp, & I'm pretty confident the likes of Roger Bussel & Barry Sexton should have a pretty solid recollection of the beer. Some ex S&A brewers that have produced Iron Brew in the past (inc Bill Hoedemaker) will be judging, & the rest I presume will be judging against the same description/profile that everyone has been provided. Unfortunately, as has been raised, it was a long time ago, and even who I consider to be the most notable beer judge in Australia has conceded that while he might have drunk a lot of Iron Brew in it's day, it was long before he had any kind of skill at beer evaulation.

So long as your beer is clean, balanced & free of faults you should have a pretty good chance!


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## brendanos (16/1/11)

outbreak said:


> I was a bit surprised that they didn't specify yeast, I was going to use this comp as an excuse to get some sort of English style liquid ale yeast to my just new collection.



S&A used to use the CUB house (lager) strain in the Iron Brew...


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## CONNOR BREWARE (11/3/11)

Well the big day is on Wednesday so goodluck!

I dropped off my mate and my entries on Saturday and had a chat with one of the managers, we should get tasting notes and yeah they will be having very small tasters to try and keep the palate clean.


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## speedie (12/3/11)

good luck and best wishes to all that involved themselves with this comp
i hope that some lucky homebrewer gets to use a commercial system to produce there winning brew
speedie


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## outbreak (12/3/11)

brendanos said:


> S&A used to use the CUB house (lager) strain in the Iron Brew...



Well hopefully they will appreciate the flavors that Wyeast 1968 gave my entry!


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## speedie (15/3/11)

s&a in th early days did in fact go up the road to matlida bay to pick up yeast which was there generic stuff
also there was a trip for the grain which would be put through the mill as there wasnt one at freo (sail)
speedo


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