# Doppelbock



## manticle (9/7/12)

I searched through the threads in flavour of the week and couldn't find a doppelbock one.

Anyone got any tried and true recipes?

These pages from BYO have some interesting tips:

http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styles/art...le-of-the-month

http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styles/art...s-from-the-pros

here's the BJCP style guide version: 



> *5C. Doppelbock *
> *Aroma:* Very strong maltiness. Darker versions will have significant melanoidins and often some toasty aromas. A light caramel flavor from a long boil is acceptable. Lighter versions will have a strong malt presence with some melanoidins and toasty notes. Virtually no hop aroma, although a light noble hop aroma is acceptable in pale versions. No diacetyl. A moderately low fruity aspect to the aroma often described as prune, plum or grape may be present (but is optional) in dark versions due to reactions between malt, the boil, and aging. A very slight chocolate-like aroma may be present in darker versions, but no roasted or burned aromatics should ever be present. Moderate alcohol aroma may be present.
> 
> *Appearance:* Deep gold to dark brown in color. Darker versions often have ruby highlights. Lagering should provide good clarity. Large, creamy, persistent head (color varies with base style: white for pale versions, off-white for dark varieties). Stronger versions might have impaired head retention, and can display noticeable legs.
> ...



and here's my intended recipe (critique welcome) based heavily on the first ideas and recipe in the second BYO article


*Type:* All grain
*Size:* 22 liters
*Color:* 38 HCU (~18 SRM) 
*Bitterness: *27 IBU
*OG:* 1.072 
*FG:* 1.018
*Alcohol:* 6.7% v/v (5.3% w/w)
*Grain:* 1.5kg Weyermann Pilsner
1.5kg Weyermann Vienna
4kg Weyermann Munich
50g Weyermann Carafa II
*Mash:* 70% efficiency
TEMP: 48/62/70/77
TIME: 15/20/20/10
*Boil: *180 minutes, SG 1.047 34 liters
*Hops:* 60g Saaz (3.75% AA, 60 min.)

2 Decoctions

Yeast cake from Wy Oktoberfest

Calcium Chloride as necessary.


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## manticle (10/7/12)

Just a weeny little bump.

Surely someone out of 20,000+ members has brewed a successful doppelbock before?


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## raven19 (10/7/12)

My first one is approaching the end of primary ferment fella. Will need to sample prior to bottling and report back!


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## tallie (10/7/12)

I'm not an expert on brewing one by a long shot, but Doppelbock is one of my favourite styles to drink.

I personally would replace the Pils & Vienna with all Munich base malt, but they may have a place in your decoction process (I've only ever done single infusion mashes, using Melanoidin malt to attempt to replicate decoction flavours). I'd also use a German hop, but at 60mins, Saaz will probably be fine.

This is a recipe I brewed in mid-2010 (based on this recipe), which medaled Silver and Bronze in the 2011 QABC and AABC respectively:

Wey. Munich I: 85%
Australian Light Munich: 10%
Wey. Melanoidin: 4%
Wey. Carafa II: 1%

Single infusion mash at 68C for 1hr

2hr Boil
Hallertau Hersbrucker: 16IBU* at -60mins

OG: 1.074

Fermented with S189 at 11C for 16 days
FG: 1.022


*IBUs calculated using Tinseth, and doesn't account for no-chilling.

My latest batch that is currently reaching the end of lagering uses all Weyermann Munich malt, German Northern Brewer for bittering, and White Labs German Bock yeast. As per raven19, I'll try to remember to report back here when I've tried it!

Cheers,
tallie

Edit: more details


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## manticle (10/7/12)

Cheers Tallie.

Initially I was going to go for Hallertauer mittelfruh (may still do so as I think I have some in my stocks) but the saaz is a consideration due to the fact I recently bought a nice amount of fresh CZ saaz. If I think the HM is fresh enough, I may go for that and save the saaz for an upcoming bo pils (not that I need to save it - got plenty)

I had considered 100% munich, 50:50 munich/vienna and had also previously considered some caramunich I in there too. The end result I want to be a bit chocolatey and a bit toasty, hence the vienna (and hopefully the decoctions). Colour with that bill and boil should be about right. Aiming for choc toast more than caramel, hence deciding not to use caramunich.


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## The_Duck (10/7/12)

manticle said:


> Just a weeny little bump.
> 
> Surely someone out of 20,000+ members has brewed a successful doppelbock before?




Manticle... you should ask Andy D about successfully making a Doppelbock.

Muhahahahahaha :lol: 


Like Raven19 my first ever Doppelbock is approaching the end of it's primary as we speak. It was a triple decocted jobby too. A whole freakin day to make so it damn well better be worth it !!

Fermenter samples so far appear promising 


Duck


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## Andyd (10/7/12)

Yes - laugh while you can... the beer that is a mere shadow of what it should have been will be unveiled at the Club dinner, and then you'll see that your jest is closer to the truth than you would care to believe... 

ANdy


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## barls (10/7/12)

josh has, well what i remember of it.


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## alfadog (11/7/12)

I have had two attempts at the dopplebock. Both were based on the recipe on the CB site. 

The first attempt was done in my old 2V system and worked out perfectly.

The second attempt I tried to scale it down to brew in the BM, and added DME to get the OG required. It was OK but was nothing exciting. 

I used WY2206 for the first brew and WY2633 for the second batch both were excellent yeasts IMO


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## manticle (11/8/12)

Brewing the above tomorrow hopefully but probably using hersbrucker plugs


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## brettprevans (11/8/12)

I've judged quite a few dopples. They are hard beers to nail. Beautiful beer style. Radical brewing has a couple it cracker recipes. Or I'd be tempted to modify brendos winning Bock recipe into a dopple.

Decoction highly recommended for complexity results. It's something a lot of comp entries are missing.


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## fraser_john (11/8/12)

I made a cracker based on the 2002 BYO recipe years ago, lagered it at 0c for 12 months, best lager I've ever made to date. My recipe for it can be found here

Hard to avoid the tempation to drink it before it is ready


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## manticle (12/8/12)

I'll possibly age mine in tapless demijohn.

Heating strike water at the moment but changed the mash schedule above a touch to reflect my usual stepping schedule. Protein rest for 10 minutes, alpha-amylase for 40 instead of 20 and 72 glycoprotein for 10 chucked in. Alpha rest at 68 instead of 70.


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## brettprevans (12/8/12)

manticle said:


> protein rest for 10 minutes, alpha-amylase for 40 instead of 20 and 72 glycoprotein for 10 chucked in. Alpha rest at 68 instead of 70.


 :icon_drool2: :lol: 

happy brewing mants. let us know how you go. this thread almost convinced me to bring forward my dopplebock brewing plans, but it can stay where it is on the to do list. next brew is juniper rye bock. so kind of similar, and I might pinch your step mash schedule for the brew.


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## manticle (13/8/12)

Brewday went well. 3/12 hour boil and colour looks about right. 3 decoctions smelled great.

Ran off about 15 litres into a cube, another 2 into an erlenmeyer for a starter and another 2 or 3 of trubby wort that will be allowed to settle out and the clear stuff reboiled.

Fresh smack pack of bavarian lager into the starter this morning but I think I'm going to harvest 1/4 a cup or so of Oktoberfest yeast from a lagering cube to get enough yeast. I reckon the two strains will be friends.

Ferment out, lager then age in glass for a year - should be next year's winter warmer.


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## manticle (4/11/12)

Decided not to bulk age for a year - Racked following FG and lagered for a fair while. Bottled yesterday. Tasting promising - will crack the first in a couple of weeks then try and squirrel a few away from prying bottle openers.


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## brettprevans (4/11/12)

Sou.fd promising mants. Ill bring a samplw of my juniper rye bock to the next meeting. Needs more juniper i recon.


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## tallie (6/3/13)

Dave70's recent thread just reminded me that I never reported back on my last attempt. It ended up winning the Strong Lager category in the 2013 AABC, BUT, it was entered as a Traditional Bock. After assessing it and trying it side-by-side with Paulaner Salvator, it was lacking in the very strong malt character that is required by the guidelines and (IMO) exemplified by Salvator. It was obviously much more in the ball park for a Traditional Bock despite being over the ABV for the style.

The recipe was 95% Wey. Munich I, 4% Wey. Melanoidin (that I use in place of decocting) and 1% Wey. Carafa Special II. It was boiled for 2 hours and bittered with German Northern Brewer to 17 IBU (using the Tinseth formula, not accounting for no-chilling). Yeast was WLP833 German Bock.

Interestingly, I've since tried a Barley Wine that I made with only the first runnings of an all TF Floor Malted Maris Otter grist, and it reminded me of the Salvator! As a result, next time I brew a Doppelbock, I'm only going to use the equivalent of the first runnings of the mash (not sure how I'm going to do that with my BM yet; I'll probably just use less infusion water and avoid sparging).

Cheers,
tallie


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## manticle (6/3/13)

I never reported back either.

Unfortunately drank them all instead of aging as long as I had hoped. I moved house while bulk aging so ended up bottling soon after. Most were great, last one tasted mildly vegemitey.

Will repeat in a few weeks. Recipe and process definitely work (long boil etc).


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## tanukibrewer (15/5/13)

Gday Manticle/Tallie
How are your lastest Dopplebocks going?Have read the book Bock Classic Beer Styles by Darryl Richman and was thrown by the decotion methods and temp steps in the mashing as I usually just do single infusion.So thanks Tallie for the heads up on the use of Melanoidin malt instead of decotion.
Having an Octoberfest party again this year,will be serving a Kolsch and a Octoberfest/Marzen and now I am planing to do a Dopplebock.Cheers


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## tallie (15/5/13)

tanukibrewer said:


> Gday Manticle/Tallie
> How are your lastest Dopplebocks going?Have read the book Bock Classic Beer Styles by Darryl Richman and was thrown by the decotion methods and temp steps in the mashing as I usually just do single infusion.So thanks Tallie for the heads up on the use of Melanoidin malt instead of decotion.
> Having an Octoberfest party again this year,will be serving a Kolsch and a Octoberfest/Marzen and now I am planing to do a Dopplebock.Cheers
> 
> ...


I haven't brewed another one since, so haven't been able to test my "first-runnings only" hypothesis. Based on my last batch, I definitely wouldn't say Melanoidin malt is a complete replacement for a decoction mash (not in that quantity anyway), which is why I want to try it in combination with only using the first runnings from the mash.

Having said that, I did taste the beer last week, and it is very good! Nice and smooth, with good malt character and no cloying sweetness. It just doesn't have the very strong and complex malt character that Salvator has, and style wise, still fits better as a Traditional Bock. I've got a bottle of Weihenstephaner Korbinian in the fridge that I might do a side-by-side with, as from memory, it is closer to that beer.

Cheers,
tallie


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## manticle (15/5/13)

Hi Tanuki,

I will be knocking another one out this winter but haven't done one since.

Yes I have read that book and beers like this get treated to stepped temps and decoctions (although I was doing that before I read the book).


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## tanukibrewer (15/5/13)

Thanks again.Will post a brew recipie before I brew.


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