# Anyone Brewed Any Of Zamil Zainasheff's Recipes ?



## Pumpy (23/1/09)

I have the 'Jamil ESB' Fermenting and just mashed the' Jamil Mild' ,

since being inspired by the Podcasts and reading his book 'Brewing Classic Styles' 

have no results yet I wondered if anyone had any luck with his recipes ?

Pumpy


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## Sunshine_Brewer (23/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> I have the 'Jamil ESB' Fermenting and just mashed the' Jamil Mild' ,
> 
> since being inspired by the Podcasts and reading his book 'Brewing Classic Styles'
> 
> ...



Yeah Pumpy I did the ESB before Xmas with the London ESB Wyeast, my best beer! but shit there is not left :icon_drool2: I have only done 5 all grains now, three have been Jamil recipes. Heaps of tips in those podcasts.
My wife loved the mild, said it tasted like coffee/choc will be doing it again soon.


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## Pumpy (23/1/09)

Great Sunshine Brewer that gives me some confidence .

Your right You can always pick up some tip in those podcasts 

Pumpy


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## Swinging Beef (23/1/09)

yes indeed.
Belgian Dark Ale
Trippel
Belgian Golden Ale

next...
Dubbel

I like em... I need to modify them to suit my 65%ish efficiency... I like the dialogue between those fellahs on the HBN radio podcasts


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## Pumpy (23/1/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> yes indeed.
> Belgian Dark Ale
> Trippel
> Belgian Golden Ale
> ...




Swinging Beef I fancied that Dubbel recipe do you get good attenuation on your Belgians ? 

Why is your efficiency 65% ?

Pumpy


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## Ecosse (23/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> I have the 'Jamil ESB' Fermenting and just mashed the' Jamil Mild' ,
> 
> since being inspired by the Podcasts and reading his book 'Brewing Classic Styles'
> 
> ...



Funny you should ask  ...

I've been brewing Jamil for awhile now. 

Just cracked the first bottle of his Programmer's Elbow ESB tonight. After 10 days in the bottle its delicious though certainly not a Fullers clone (not that Jamil claims it is). A nice chewy balanced English Pale. Typing this has convinced me to wander down to the shed to fetch another bottle.

I brewed the mild about six weeks ago. I'm finding it a wee bit thin but my mash temp was a bit low which might account for that.

The marzen went over a treat with everyone and is easily the best I've brewed. Lagering for four months didn't hurt it though.  I have the bock cold conditioning and reckon it needs it.

Have his Sweet Stout in the fermenter and the Oatmeal lined up for an Australia day brew.

Cheers,
Nick.


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## Thirsty Boy (23/1/09)

Modified to reflect the differences my preferred mashing regime introduces, plus that I am using mega brewery base malt and Aussie specialties where they are appropriate - probably the majority of my beers start out from the base of Jamil recipe and are then tweaked to my liking as they are re-brewed.

The kolsch that won the Mash-Paddle was a Jamil recipe - differences were Mega Brewery base malt instead of pilsner, home toasted munich and Hersbrucker instead of Hallertau.

So different, but really as close to the original a I could get with what the ingredients I had available

And a class win for an Oktoberfest that was only one round of tweaking away from Jamil recipe.

I like the concept of the "Award Winning Recipe" book, that way you _know_ that the recipe is sound, if the beer sucks it was your fault as a brewer, not as a recipe designer. I consider myself still a relative novice at this brewing caper; and when I am going with a style I might not have brewed or even tasted before, it reassures me to have someone else do the art work of recipe design - then I can concentrate on the craftwork of actually brewing it properly.

TB


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## Pumpy (23/1/09)

Ecosse said:


> Funny you should ask  ...
> 
> I've been brewing Jamil for awhile now.
> 
> ...




Ecosse I mashed my Mild about 65-66C hope it was not too low ?

Is it a quaffing beer


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## Ecosse (24/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> Ecosse I mashed my Mild about 65-66C hope it was not too low ?
> 
> Is it a quaffing beer


Yep mine was about 65 too, a little thin perhaps but definitely a quaffer. Really pales against the ESB that I've just fetched from the shed.

Gotta second what Thirsty Boy said about adjusting Jamils recipes for local malts. Not really a problem with the base malts but sometimes matching his crystals can be tricky.

Just as an example the Oatmeal Stout planned for Monday asks for 500 L black roasted malt (which I reckon is about 1000EBC) but I can only source it at 650 to 750 L (or 1300-1500 EBC). Also had to sub his Briess Victory Malt for Bairds Amber. Can't imagine that my tastebuds will tell the difference but I aim to start as close as possible to the recipe because, as Thirsty Boy says, the recipes should be sound and any faults in the beer will be due to my process. 

Also should say that I brewed Jamil's Kolsch and my sister-in-law from Cologne really dug it. I've learnt that its best never to disappoint a German.


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## mika (24/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> Ecosse I mashed my Mild about 65-66C hope it was not too low ?
> 
> Is it a quaffing beer



I thought the mild needed to be mashed at ~67-68degs to get the body, but I could be way off the mark.


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## King Brown (24/1/09)

What a coincidence, I just picked up a copy of brewing classic styles yesterday (on the advice of the good people at AHB ) And am planning my next brew to be the extract version of his old treacle mine old ale recipe, replacing the pale malt extract with ldme (mainly for the cost factor) and replacing the horizon with fuggles (because its what I have in the fridge, and I dont like to hold onto hops for too long) 

Good to hear some feed back about his recipes from other brewers!


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## buttersd70 (24/1/09)

mika said:


> I thought the mild needed to be mashed at ~67-68degs to get the body, but I could be way off the mark.



I'm not familiar with Jamils recipe, so can't comment on it directly. However, every other Mild recipe I've seen is indeed mashed at 67-68, if not hotter...


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## unterberg (24/1/09)

Ecosse said:


> Also should say that I brewed Jamil's Kolsch and my sister-in-law from Cologne really dug it. I've learnt that its best never to disappoint a German.



Never!


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## Thirsty Boy (24/1/09)

BCS gives 68C as the suggested mashing temp for the mild


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## Pumpy (24/1/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Modified to reflect the differences my preferred mashing regime introduces, plus that I am using mega brewery base malt and Aussie specialties where they are appropriate - probably the majority of my beers start out from the base of Jamil recipe and are then tweaked to my liking as they are re-brewed.
> 
> The kolsch that won the Mash-Paddle was a Jamil recipe - differences were Mega Brewery base malt instead of pilsner, home toasted munich and Hersbrucker instead of Hallertau.
> 
> ...



Yes Thirsty , 

I had fun with the home toasted crystal to try to copy the Briess Special Roast Malt he uses , but it did have a burnt raisiny flavour as he described . in one recipe .

I am the same with recipes I like a tried an tested recipe as I hate ending up with 40 litres of a beer that if it dont work out I have to blame myself for it destroys my confidence .


Pumpy


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## Pumpy (24/1/09)

mika said:


> I thought the mild needed to be mashed at ~67-68degs to get the body, but I could be way off the mark.



Yo are right Mika he did advise to mash the Mild a bit higher temp to end up with more unfermentable sugar so it had more residual sweetness & body, I also remember him saying it in the Mild podcast 


Pumpy


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## Damian44 (24/1/09)

Ive got the bitter in a cube for tomorrow. The book uses the Rager formula for bittering, which is not the default program in beersmith.

Would i be correct in substituting special roast for brown malt?

He says on page 289 a 2L starter doubles your yeast. So if i made a 2L starter than split it and made 2 more 2L starters id have the equivalant of 4 liquid yeasts?


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## Pumpy (24/1/09)

Damian44 said:


> Ive got the bitter in a cube for tomorrow. The book uses the Rager formula for bittering, which is not the default program in beersmith.
> 
> Would i be correct in substituting special roast for brown malt?
> 
> He says on page 289 a 2L starter doubles your yeast. So if i made a 2L starter than split it and made 2 more 2L starters id have the equivalant of 4 liquid yeasts?




Damian 

This is what Jamil told me to do when I asked him about sourcing Victory Malt & Breisse Special Roast Malt (Dont tell anyone it a secret)  
The Special roast should taste like baked raisins on top of cookies and it does exactly 
:-

"As a victory malt substitute, the bairds amber might be a decent choice.

For special roast, it is tricky. You might try taking some crystal malt, maybe in the 25 to 40 L range (approx 50 to 80 EBC), wet it down, let it stand for a day at room temp, then toasting it up in the oven. Use maybe 250 to 300F until the color is slightly darker than the untoasted. Not sure how well that would work, since I've never tried it, but I'd think it should get you close."

JZ


Pumpy


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## yardy (24/1/09)

yeah i've brewed a few of JZ's

Roggenbier (3 times with different yeasts) :icon_drool2: 
Kolsch with Wyeast 2575
Cream Ale

cheers


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## loftboy (24/1/09)

I've got the book & have brewed the following;

Blonde Ale
American Wheat
Scottish 80/-
English Mild
Cream Ale

All of them have turned out nicely. Only the Blonde Ale turned out a dud after getting a lacto infection, but that's my fault as a brewer, not a recipe flaw.

Like others, I adjusted the recipes to suit my efficiency and equipment. I use his grain bill to get the %'s worked out and then adjust my qty to get the intended OG in BeerSmith. As already noted, he uses Rager for hop IBU calc's and the default in BeerSmith is Tinseth. It's an easy option to change though.

When I can, I also like listening to the Podcast's. I had 6 hours of driving to do yesderday and listening to JZ and the crew made the time pass quickly. I really love the "locker room" humour.

In short, for new AG brewers, there are really only two books you need - Brewing Classic Styles + Palmer's How to Brew.


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## jonw (24/1/09)

I made his "Belgian speciality" i.e. Orval recipe. It's great. Had a few mates round for a barbie last weekend and they all loved it - I was a bit surprised, as it's not really a mainstream kind of beer.


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## Ecosse (24/1/09)

mika said:


> I thought the mild needed to be mashed at ~67-68degs to get the body, but I could be way off the mark.





buttersd70 said:


> I'm not familiar with Jamils recipe, so can't comment on it directly. However, every other Mild recipe I've seen is indeed mashed at 67-68, if not hotter...



And I really wanted to hit 68 (which is recommend in BCS) except I'd just added the strike water and given it a good stir when Sam our two month old son finally pooed after a four day hiatus. Was like a crack of thunder. He filled his nappy with brown goop that overflowed onto the dress of his four year old sister who was looking after him when daddy was starting his beer. Sister was very cranky. All needed an emergency bath and then some soothing. 

When I returned to the mash half an hour later, temp was 65. Must have been low on the strike.

The beer is fine and its called, obviously, Baby Poo Brown (even though its a mild).  

Ecosse.


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## Weizguy (24/1/09)

I have brewed, but still in the cube, a Jamil (BYO mag) recipe American blonde.
Today, I'm making the Jamil BYO mag Roggenbier

A tried and true recipe is a good starting point to familiarise yourself with a style and the flavours to expect,... especially if you can't buy it here!

Les


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## eamonnfoley (24/1/09)

for those who dont have the book

http://beerdujour.com/JamilsRecipes.htm

They seem to be a mix of whats in the book and what is on his radio show.


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## loftboy (24/1/09)

foles said:


> for those who dont have the book
> 
> http://beerdujour.com/JamilsRecipes.htm
> 
> They seem to be a mix of whats in the book and what is on his radio show.



This list is about 30 recipes short & I think you will find that it stopped being updated when the book was announced. IIRC, JZ didn't want to pi$$ off his publisher by giving the rest out for free.


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## Pumpy (24/1/09)

The net recipes appear slighty different to the book .

The book is a great reference book for the styles .

I am alway checking up mine .

Nothing like a nice new book to thumb through .

To a beer nerd this book 'could' be regarded as better than se..............


Pumpy


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## Peter Wadey (24/1/09)

No.
But have tried 1 or 2 recipes followed by other people.
Having too much fun making my own.

Pete


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## Weizguy (24/1/09)

That's exciting, Andrew! Respect!

I find Jamil to be useful, when I try to brew an example of a new style.
I prefer to brew a beer, to get a handle on a style, rather than buy a stale Eurobeer. Obviously there is some drinking involved too.

Imagine the drinking that Jamil puts into his research, and vice versa.

2 recent examples are American blonde and the Dampfbier that redefined the term "box 'o' exploders". Roggenbier brewed today. Just off to pitch the yeast into the culture bottle for a weizen yeast. The mother culture has been tasted and is very nice, thank you.

I noticed J'mil on this forum recently. Time to fire up the no-chill thread. Anyone got any aged home-made Fresh Wort kits??
Les out


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## RobB (24/1/09)

My most recent beer from this book was the Alt, complete with 11% melanoidin malt. It turned out beautifully.

Even when I write my own recipe, I'll check my proportions against this book and Designing Great Beers just to make sure I haven't done anything stupid.


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## blackbock (25/1/09)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I have brewed, but still in the cube, a Jamil (BYO mag) recipe American blonde.
> Today, I'm making the Jamil BYO mag Roggenbier
> 
> Les



Les,

Is that the same Roggenbier recipe as the BN podcast? I am planning to do that one really soon, you've gotta tell me how it went! 

:icon_cheers:


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## Weizguy (25/1/09)

blackbock said:


> Les,
> 
> Is that the same Roggenbier recipe as the BN podcast? I am planning to do that one really soon, you've gotta tell me how it went!
> 
> :icon_cheers:


I'll check the podcast and get back to you. If it's JC's Roggen, then it's probably very close.

Cheers


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## smudge (25/1/09)

Les,

If it's JC's (aka Justin Crossley's) recipe, run like the wind. If it was a typo and you meant JZ's, all is good.

Cheers,
smudge


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## Pumpy (26/1/09)

I have made Jamils English bitter the efficiency was such that it was a bit higher OG pushing it into the ESB range

I used the Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale yeast ,i used to live there (Yay! Tetley Bitter Fan )

it is a great rich malty nicely balanced bitter on my fourth schooner and no stopping me .

Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale - 

This strain produces ales with a full chewy malt flavour & character, but finishes dry, producing famously balanced beers. 
Expect moderate nutty & stone-fruit esters. Best used for the production of cask-conditioned bitters, ESB & mild ales. Reliably flocculent, producing bright beer without filtration.

Pumpy


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## kabooby (27/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> Reliably flocculent, producing bright beer without filtration.



Sounds good Pumpy. So did you filter this one?

Kabooby


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## Bizier (27/1/09)

The book came to me today. I will definitely be brewing from this.


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## Pumpy (27/1/09)

kabooby said:


> Sounds good Pumpy. So did you filter this one?
> 
> Kabooby




Yes I filtered it but it was pretty clear and the yeast was solid on the bottom.

Pumpy


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## Barry (27/1/09)

Pumpy
Have you tried one of your beers filtered vs unfiltered?


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## Weizguy (28/1/09)

smudge said:


> Les,
> 
> If it's JC's (aka Justin Crossley's) recipe, run like the wind. If it was a typo and you meant JZ's, all is good.
> 
> ...


Please excuse this sidebar convo. It's only a little off-topic.

For the record, the recipe is from BYO mag, which caters to my increasingly expanding beer horizon.
J.C. is John Curtis - the brewer for Barleys in Las Vegas, who makes the best Roggenbier that JZ ever tasted, and I'd imagine that could be a large number of Roggen's.
HTH.  
I'm just waiting for the yeast culture to be ready,...and pitch-er-ooney. To be brewed at 17C to minimise weizen esters.
Beerz.


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## kabooby (28/1/09)

Pumpy said:


> Yes I filtered it but it was pretty clear and the yeast was solid on the bottom.
> 
> Pumpy



Cool, so where are the pictures?

Kabooby


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## Pumpy (2/2/09)

Ecosse said:


> Yep mine was about 65 too, a little thin perhaps but definitely a quaffer. Really pales against the ESB that I've just fetched from the shed.
> 
> Gotta second what Thirsty Boy said about adjusting Jamils recipes for local malts. Not really a problem with the base malts but sometimes matching his crystals can be tricky.
> 
> ...




Ecosse I found the Mild really bland and a touch watery out of the fermenter ,

But carbonated Its a fine English Mild a real dark beer nice flavour and body finished about 1.013 which gave the body it needed the west Yorkshire Ale yeast worked well .

I had to water the English bitter down a bit as too much flavour as the efficiency was a bit high .

I would make the Mild again when I have finished this forty litres 

Pumpy


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## Fourstar (2/2/09)

Just cube'd a dry stout similar to his recipe in brewing classic styles book.



the %'s are slightly out as its going from Extract toAG and a different efficiency but the general gist is there.

Even if you do replicate the recipe, without brewing it under the same conditions its going to turn out completly different anyway.

I find Jamils recipe to be quite sound style-wise and are always a good building block for me to form my own recipes. This would have to be the 1st beer ive made of his that doesnt have a big fourstar twist on it.

time will tell if the hard work was worth it!


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## Pumpy (2/2/09)

Fourstar said:


> Just cube'd a dry stout similar to his recipe in brewing classic styles book.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes Fourstar ,

Jamils recipes seem uncomplicated and a great book to reference all the styles in one book, it good how he explains what it should taste like .



Pumpy


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## Damian44 (2/2/09)

Guys in the book when British pale ale malt is required is MO the same thing?


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)

My sweet stout is based on his recipe from The Jamil Show- though I changed the hops because of what I had in the freezer- it's quite tasty.


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## starkesbier (2/2/09)

I brewed his Belgian blonde a little while ago and have had several of the brewclub members comment on how good it is. A real easy drinker (even using T58 dry yeast).


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## Fourstar (3/2/09)

Pumpy said:


> Yes Fourstar ,
> Jamils recipes seem uncomplicated and a great book to reference all the styles in one book, it good how he explains what it should taste like .
> Pumpy



Agreed,

He also seems to explain what majorty of the grain/malt is doing in the beer as well, rather than you having to work it out once you have brewed it.

te quickest way for a newb to begin identifying grain/hop/yeast flavours/aromas


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## sanders4_ (3/11/09)

Really rate this book - have brewed over 10 recipes (german wheat and rye, american ales, stouts, IPAs, california common and more) - and everyone has turned out great!

The major annoyance I have is the use of 'victory' malt, especially in the american ales - of which there isn't a perfect substitute available in australia - so its impossible to follow the recipe to the T....

That said - I have subbed amber malt - but need to limit the amount to keep the EBCs under control - and the description/end flavour is a bit different too. Others have suggested brown, but this is even less idea IMO.

Brewing more of the german lagers and light hybrid beers - will update.


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## Effect (3/11/09)

sanders4_ said:


> Really rate this book - have brewed over 10 recipes (german wheat and rye, american ales, stouts, IPAs, california common and more) - and everyone has turned out great!
> 
> The major annoyance I have is the use of 'biscuit' malt, especially in the american ales - of which there isn't a perfect substitute available in australia - so its impossible to follow the recipe to the T....
> 
> ...




there isn't a perfect substitute for biscuit? what about the dingemanns biscuit malt?

Cheers
Phil


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## sanders4_ (3/11/09)

my bad - Victory malt... meant to say victory malt. biscuit was another potential sub.... Opps..


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## Thirsty Boy (4/11/09)

its only recently that some of the Digemanns malts have been widely available - BCS recipes will be just a little easier to use now that we can access biscuit and special B etc


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