# Little Creatures Pale Ale Clone



## outbackbob (9/10/07)

Hey Guys,

This is my first post, however I have been reading quite a bit over the past few weeks with interest.

I have recently been getting into AG brewing after 4+ years of just brewing kits and must say, I am definatly enjoying it!!!

The last beer I brewed, which I kegged on Sunday and just had my first sip of tonight was a clone of a little creatures pale ale. This has been my 4th AG brew, and I must say it's GOOD! I went to the bottle'o to grab a bottle of the real thing to compare with mine and it was spot on! My did a blind fold test on me to see if I could pick the difference and I couldn't! I actually thought my beer was the little creatures one!

The only thing I am a little disappointed about is the cloudiness:




The beer on the left is mine and the right is the little creatures.

Now I have been reading a bit about chill haze etc and am wondering if this is my problem. I think it could be one of a few things:

1) I use a counter-flow chiller, so my cold break material still ends up in my fermenter
2) I don't run it through the grain bed enough to filter it when sparging
3) I throw my hops straight into the boil and do not filter between the boil and the fermenter, so I get a bit of hops transferred to the fermenter as well.

What would you guys say be the most likely cause of the cloudiness and what are some tips to get it looking more like the real thing?

Thanks,
Outback Bob

p.s.
Anyone in Albury, NSW who wants to come and have a swig, give us a yell. I'm pretty proud of this one so I want to show it off


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## Ross (9/10/07)

Welcome to the forum OB,

what was your recipe? I'm sure there are a few interested.

with regards to the cloudyness, you need to work out whether yeast or chill haze - warm a little in the microwave - does it go clear - if yes it's chill haze, otherwise most likely just yeast. Yeast will clear in time, or filter for a quick result. chill haze can be caused by a mutitude of things, but generally a good strong boil & use of a fining agent like irish moss will do the trick, otherwise use some polyclar to clear it up post ferment.

cheers Ross


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (9/10/07)

ello Bob, welcome aboard.
The brew looks the goods, would you like to share the recipe?

We were at LC the other week on a fact finding mission, and it would be interesting to compare.


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## bindi (9/10/07)

Welcome, and yes, recipe please like Ross says.
I have done one that was very close to taste [hop wise] but the colour and ABV% [6+] was wrong [who care,? I don't] .
Must do it again. 

Edit: Bob is a good name.


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## outbackbob (9/10/07)

I found the recipe on a forum somewhere... Don't think it was this one, but can't remember... This is all I had to go on:

---
5 kilo 2-row pale (88%)
0.5 kilo Wheat DME ( 8%)
0.6 kilo Crystal 60 ( 4%)

mash at 152F for an hour

1oz Pearle @ 60 mins
1oz Cascade @ 20 mins
1oz Cascade @ flameout
1oz Fuggles @ flameout
---

John at Grain and Grape changed it round a little, but I don't have a record of exactly what he did, which sucks, cause I won't be able to reproduce it again either 

From memory it was basically 4.5 kgs of pale, 250grams of wheat and 250 grams of crystal, to make it to 5kgs of grain for a 23lt batch.

I mashed at 65 degrees for 1 hour, 90 minute boil, with the hops as suggested. Yeast was wyeast American Ale II.

It seemed like a lot of hops at the time, but it has come out pretty darn good! 

That photo is also of the very first beer out of the keg, so maybe it will clear up a bit as I get into it.

Cheers.


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/10/07)

Outback Bob said:


> That photo is also of the very first beer out of the keg, so maybe it will clear up a bit as I get into it.
> 
> Cheers.




I think you may be on the money. Although I have only kegged kit beers I do initially have the same problem. After a week, and that is if the keg will last that long, it clears up.

BYB


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## braufrau (10/10/07)

Outback Bob said:


> The only thing I am a little disappointed about is the cloudiness:



I bet it tastes much better than the real stuff!

I would have bet the cloudiness was due to the low flocculation of 1056 yeast except that's not what you used. 
Wyeast claim 1272 floccs well ... if that's the case I might use it for my next APA! I hate the way 1056 doesn't flocc!

Anybody with opinions on 1272??


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## simpletotoro (10/10/07)

Outback Bob said:


> That photo is also of the very first beer out of the keg, so maybe it will clear up a bit as I get into it.




hi...i get that in some of my beers and am starting to think its hot side airation (or however one spells that word)...i usually stir the crap out of it when doing the boil (am paranoid about scorching the wort)and am beginning to wonder on the wisdom of that...dunno just a thought..
cheers ST


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## kabooby (10/10/07)

simpletotoro said:


> hi...i get that in some of my beers and am starting to think its hot side airation (or however one spells that word)...i usually stir the crap out of it when doing the boil (am paranoid about scorching the wort)and am beginning to wonder on the wisdom of that...dunno just a thought..
> cheers ST



A good rolling boil should keep the wort moving around enough, no need to stir. I thought stiring would take it off the boil if anything.


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## Quintrex (10/10/07)

braufrau said:


> I bet it tastes much better than the real stuff!
> 
> I would have bet the cloudiness was due to the low flocculation of 1056 yeast except that's not what you used.
> Wyeast claim 1272 floccs well ... if that's the case I might use it for my next APA! I hate the way 1056 doesn't flocc!
> ...



I love 1272, but don't expect better flocculation than us-05, at least in my experience. I do like the flavour a lot though.

Just make sure you rack it, and give it time

Q


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## browndog (10/10/07)

Outback Bob said:


> I found the recipe on a forum somewhere... Don't think it was this one, but can't remember... This is all I had to go on:
> 
> ---
> 5 kilo 2-row pale (88%)
> ...



Hi Bob, 
This is a very interesting topic for me as I have been trying to create a decent LCPA clone and am onto to 5th generation in search of perfection. I've found the need to use a heap of chinook to get the grapefruit flavours and aroma that you find in an LCPA. I wouldn't be too concerned at 120g of hops being too much I am currently using 210g in a 24L batch.

cheers

Browndog


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## drsmurto (10/10/07)

Not wanting to dampen the joy of making a great tasting brew but IIRC from the now infamous grumpys thread a few years back the little creatures team themselves got involved in the discussion.

cascade and goldings in the boil, chinook and cascade flowers in the hopback. 

I swapped the goldings in the boil for chinook and liked the extra flavour i got. Generous dry hopping makes a difference to IMO.

Wow, 4 AGs in and i am already pretending to know about this craft.... :lol:


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## tangent (10/10/07)

you're probably 4 brews more than some "experts" mate.


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## jayse (10/10/07)

I think everythings been covered already and perhaps the brew is even cleared by now. 
I'll just add some rantings on american ale II, its a great yeast and does flocc out very well and finishes clear quickly. You might find though a certain amount of it likes to flocc to the top and set up camp there for awhile and when racking to the keg you'll get a little of that if you went straight from primary. Once racked it does settle very quickly though.
It does sound like your have got everything together pretty spot on outback bob in your brewing etc. As already been said if it lasts more than a few days it will clear up perfectly.

Someone said they don't expect better flocculation out of it than us-05, I get a hell of a lot better flocculation out of this yeast and prefer it by a long shot for many reasons. 

1272 is a great yeast>>> US-05 = MEH.



Boozed, broozed & broken boned.
Jayse


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## braufrau (11/10/07)

jayse said:


> Someone said they don't expect better flocculation out of it than us-05, I get a hell of a lot better flocculation out of this yeast and prefer it by a long shot for many reasons.
> 
> 1272 is a great yeast>>> US-05 = MEH.



Thanks Jayse. I use US05 often enough to justify investment in a smack pack of 1272 for my next brew.


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## randyrob (11/10/07)

Hey Bob,

it sure is a rewarding experience brewing a beer that you are happy with! i'm sure this batch won't last long enough to clear.

1272 is a beautiful yeast to watch do it's business and comes out nice and fruity compared to us-05 which i find very clean and non offensive.



> What would you guys say be the most likely cause of the cloudiness and what are some tips to get it looking more like the real thing?



if you are really concerned about clarity let it sit in the keg in the fridge a couple of weeks before consumption, it will come up crystal clear,

just make sure you have enough supplies to last you through 

keep brewing and keep adjusting the recipe's to your taste (your taste buds will continue develop more over time)

i know that the LCPA recipe's have been done to death but i think few people have actually nailed it.

What you have got there is a very good base recipe to work on. As Browndog suggested you might want to try some chinhook late in the boil and swap the pearle for goldings,

that is if your trying to "Clone" LCPA not just make a tasty APA!

and of course keep posting your results  


Rob.


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## apd (11/10/07)

simpletotoro said:


> hi...i get that in some of my beers and am starting to think its hot side airation (or however one spells that word)...i usually stir the crap out of it when doing the boil (am paranoid about scorching the wort)and am beginning to wonder on the wisdom of that...dunno just a thought..
> cheers ST



ST,

HSA produces flavour problems, not clarity problems, as far as I know.

Andrew


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## pbrosnan (11/10/07)

simpletotoro said:


> hi...i get that in some of my beers and am starting to think its hot side airation (or however one spells that word)...i usually stir the crap out of it when doing the boil (am paranoid about scorching the wort)and am beginning to wonder on the wisdom of that...dunno just a thought..
> cheers ST


Do you mean stirring during the mash? I don't think that it's physically possible to scorch the wort unless you let it reduce too much which would take a very long time for a 25L boil. Thus stirring of the wort during th boil is unnecessary.


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