# Jamil's Russian Imperial



## a_quintal (13/1/11)

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Jamils Imperial Stout
Brewer: Eskimo
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 14.99 L 
Boil Size: 17.19 L
Estimated OG: 1.100 SG
Estimated Color: 58.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 50.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.10 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 82.61 % 
0.48 kg Roasted Barley (450.0 SRM) Grain 6.52 % 
0.32 kg Special B Malt (120.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 % 
0.16 kg Caramunich Malt (75.0 SRM) Grain 2.17 % 
0.16 kg Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM) Grain 2.17 % 
0.16 kg Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.17 % 
24.35 gm Magnum [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 40.2 IBU 
37.45 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.90 %] (10 min) Hops 8.8 IBU 
37.45 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.90 %] (1 min) Hops 1.0 IBU 
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 7.38 kg
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Saccharification ReAdd 0.00 L of water at 67.8 C 67.8 C 
10 min Mash-out Rest Temp Add 0.00 L of water at 75.6 C 75.6 C 


Notes:
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I'm a BIAB brewer who loves these kind of beers. I've tried to scale it down from 23L to 15L to still get the flavour profile I want. I've estimated a efficiency loss of 5% but this is just a guess.

I mash and boil in a 50L pot.

Anyone have any advice or can see any problems with the planned receipe?

I've never done a BIAB with such a high amount of grain. I'd love to do a 22L batch but I dont think i'd get what I want in a 50L pot from 11kg of grain.

In case anyone is interested her is Jamil's orginial recipe link http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/Jamils...perialStout.htm

Thanks Guys,
Alex


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## bkmad (13/1/11)

What you're planning sounds pretty good to me. I've done a pretty big beer with biab and others have too, see [topic="0"]here[/topic]

I added a sparge step so I didn't have the full volume of water in the kettle (50L like yours) as I was worried it would end up coming close to overflowing. The sparge ended up increasing my normal efficiency. I reckon with your volumes though you could get away without the sparge.


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## a_quintal (13/1/11)

bkmad said:


> What you're planning sounds pretty good to me. I've done a pretty big beer with biab and others have too, see [topic="0"]here[/topic]
> 
> I added a sparge step so I didn't have the full volume of water in the kettle (50L like yours) as I was worried it would end up coming close to overflowing. The sparge ended up increasing my normal efficiency. I reckon with your volumes though you could get away without the sparge.




maybe i'll sparge with 3L of water. what volume do usually use?


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## ~MikE (13/1/11)

a_quintal said:


> Estimated OG: 1.100 SG
> ...
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
> ...
> ...


i lol'd

you're probably looking at 50-55% efficiency.


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## a_quintal (13/1/11)

~MikE said:


> i lol'd
> 
> you're probably looking at 50-55% efficiency.




sorry, yeah you're right


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## Phoney (13/1/11)

Ive mashed 7.8kg of grain (IIRC) in a 40L urn, sparged in a separate vessel and got 75%, for a 23L batch.

So if I were you, I wouldn't scale the recipe down. Just reserve about 10 - 15L of your initial volume in a separate pot, and at the end of the mash, heat it up to 78C on the stove - and then dunk sparge your grain bag into that.


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## bkmad (13/1/11)

a_quintal said:


> maybe i'll sparge with 3L of water. what volume do usually use?


I think I just left 4L out of the mash and then sparged with 4L.


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## hazard (13/1/11)

I'm a BIAB brewer who loves these kind of beers. I've tried to scale it down from 23L to 15L to still get the flavour profile I want. I've estimated a efficiency loss of 5% but this is just a guess.

I mash and boil in a 50L pot.

Anyone have any advice or can see any problems with the planned receipe?

I've never done a BIAB with such a high amount of grain. I'd love to do a 22L batch but I dont think i'd get what I want in a 50L pot from 11kg of grain.

In case anyone is interested her is Jamil's orginial recipe link http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/Jamils...perialStout.htm

Thanks Guys,
Alex

[/quote]
I've got Jamil's book at home and have looked longingly at this recipe too. But I mash in a 27L esky so no way can i get 11L of grain into it (the most of I've done is 7kg for a foreign extra stout). but if you've got a 50L tun i reckon go for it, as long as your bag doesn't split it's seams - and if you can lift the damn thing out after the mash tun.

The other thing to think about is your yeast. You'll need a truck load. I don't use Jamil's calculator, but I reckon it would say you need about 4 smack packs, which is just silly. A better way would be to brew a batch of JSAA (because it also uses US05/ WY1056/ WL001) and pitch straight onto the yeast cake. But you might want to use a blow-off tube.

Good luck with it!!


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## a_quintal (13/1/11)

hazard said:


> I'm a BIAB brewer who loves these kind of beers. I've tried to scale it down from 23L to 15L to still get the flavour profile I want. I've estimated a efficiency loss of 5% but this is just a guess.
> 
> I mash and boil in a 50L pot.
> 
> ...



Yeah with the advice i've gotten above i think im gonna do a big sparge and go for it. 

Don't worry i have a nice bunch of WL001 on its 3rd batch being prepared to do the Stout at its peak.


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## DanRayner (13/1/11)

a_quintal said:


> I'm a BIAB brewer who loves these kind of beers. I've tried to scale it down from 23L to 15L to still get the flavour profile I want. I've estimated a efficiency loss of 5% but this is just a guess.
> 
> I mash and boil in a 50L pot.
> 
> ...



With a 50L pot I don't think you'll have a problem doing the full 22L - the only problem I can see with a BIAB RIS is the viscosity of the wort going in to the pot might be such that you leave behind a bit more in the grain (you know ol' Darcy's Law? Regarding this situation his flow equation says if you increase viscosity you slow the rate of flow).

Your recipe looks fine and I highly recommend Jamil's recipe - my last RIS (see link for recipe) got a noice accolade last year and it was based on his recipe.



hazard said:


> I've got Jamil's book at home and have looked longingly at this recipe too. But I mash in a 27L esky so no way can i get 11L of grain into it (the most of I've done is 7kg for a foreign extra stout). but if you've got a 50L tun i reckon go for it, as long as your bag doesn't split it's seams - and if you can lift the damn thing out after the mash tun.
> 
> The other thing to think about is your yeast. You'll need a truck load. I don't use Jamil's calculator, but I reckon it would say you need about 4 smack packs, which is just silly. A better way would be to brew a batch of JSAA (because it also uses US05/ WY1056/ WL001) and pitch straight onto the yeast cake. But you might want to use a blow-off tube.
> 
> Good luck with it!!



My last RIS was made using a 33L esky-mash-tun (V1) + another 33L unmodified-esky (V2) and both were about 2/3 full when mashed in. I mashed them both in at the same time, then sparged V1 off carefully and ditched the spent grain while V2 was used as a lauter-less mash-tun. When V1 was empty I poured the contents of V2 into it and sparged again. I guess I could have mashed one after the other in the same vessel but I was a bit pressed for time. I think my efficiency was pretty low but then, who cares, it's only grain right?  I last year upgraded my system to a 70L SS mash-tun with false bottom and did another RIS (currently sitting on oak) and it was way less of a PITA.

Also, used two 11g sachets of US-05 for last year's RIS - could probably have used a another one or two sachets but it turned out fine...

Good luck!!


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## a_quintal (14/1/11)

DanRayner said:


> With a 50L pot I don't think you'll have a problem doing the full 22L - the only problem I can see with a BIAB RIS is the viscosity of the wort going in to the pot might be such that you leave behind a bit more in the grain (you know ol' Darcy's Law? Regarding this situation his flow equation says if you increase viscosity you slow the rate of flow).
> 
> Your recipe looks fine and I highly recommend Jamil's recipe - my last RIS (see link for recipe) got a noice accolade last year and it was based on his recipe.
> 
> ...



thanks i'll report back in May or something once i've tasted it after conditioning B) 

appreciate the feedback guys


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## hazard (14/1/11)

DanRayner said:


> My last RIS was made using a 33L esky-mash-tun (V1) + another 33L unmodified-esky (V2) and both were about 2/3 full when mashed in. I mashed them both in at the same time, then sparged V1 off carefully and ditched the spent grain while V2 was used as a lauter-less mash-tun. When V1 was empty I poured the contents of V2 into it and sparged again. I guess I could have mashed one after the other in the same vessel but I was a bit pressed for time. Good luck!!



So what was your volume into the kettle? And what size kettle are you using? I've got a 42L kettle so that should be fine, I usually get 30L run-off from a normal brew but I suspect that you may get more for such a big grain bill (with a longer boil time to get to final volume of 23L).


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## ~MikE (14/1/11)

also, if you're worried about waste from tiny efficiency, you can always remash your grain and make another normal strength stout. you'll likely want to add a bit more base malt and some crystal malt of some kind.


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## DanRayner (14/1/11)

hazard said:


> So what was your volume into the kettle? And what size kettle are you using? I've got a 42L kettle so that should be fine, I usually get 30L run-off from a normal brew but I suspect that you may get more for such a big grain bill (with a longer boil time to get to final volume of 23L).



Fair point, hence my comment about the potential difficulties one might experience with a BIAB RIS (single sparge?). 

I have a 70L kettle but I was making a single (22L) batch of beer and so only need space for a 25-29L boil - my boil length was 60mins, but I did a pretty careful sparge to get a normal amount of volume for a single batch at the beginning of the boil - even so, I still think my efficiency was not great.

I would say your 42L kettle and a_quintal's 50L kettle would be more than ample and, like you say, if you want more extraction you can always sparge a little more liquid and boil for longer.

Do you sparge with BIAB? I thought it was essentially a single batch sparge? In which case maybe use more grain and expect a lower overall efficiency for your target of 9-11% alc?


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## a_quintal (14/1/11)

DanRayner said:


> Fair point, hence my comment about the potential difficulties one might experience with a BIAB RIS (single sparge?).
> 
> I have a 70L kettle but I was making a single (22L) batch of beer and so only need space for a 25-29L boil - my boil length was 60mins, but I did a pretty careful sparge to get a normal amount of volume for a single batch at the beginning of the boil - even so, I still think my efficiency was not great.
> 
> ...




Yeah Dan Rayner, 

I was thinking about this before. Larger volume with longer boil might be what i'm looking for. You think a longer boil would do anything to the taste of the eventual beer?


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## DanRayner (14/1/11)

Other than evaporation there are really only two ways a longer boil affects a beer:

i) a longer boil will increase hop bitterness extraction and you want a fairly high IBU for this to balance the residual sweetness you'll get (this beer won't dry out like a lager, mine finished at 1.030!) but you'll get quite a bit more bitterness if you boil hops for the full 90/100/120mins when the recipe suggests boiling the hops for 60mins - so follow your planned hop routine pretty closely

ii) a longer boil will also affect colour - it darkens the wort too through the oxidation of polyphenols and to a lesser extent the caramelisation of sugars. But, funnily enough, I don't think that will be a problem for your RIS! 

I don't think it will affect the overall flavour though.


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## felten (14/1/11)

You could always make up any shortcomings in OG with some DME, it should not affect the flavour profile in this kind of beer.


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