# Chinese Hops - What Will You Be Brewing?



## MarkBastard (5/10/09)

Saaz, Cascade, Cluster, Marco Polo, Nugget.

So what sort of styles are you planning to make? Also if anyone has any info on each hop and what styles / recipes they'll be suitable for, that'd be handy.


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

My plan so far is a Cream Ale SMASH (with a little leniency on the malt bill) with Marco Polo (if the buy for it gets off the ground).

I'm calling it: "Marco? POLO!"

The plan is a small 60 min addition (marco) with a BIG late addition (POLO!) I really want to know what their aroma properties are like. Atleast if its crap i can flog it to the boys when they come around with minimal loss or just let it age to kill some aroma. hehehe!

1.050
40IBU
3-5 SRM
85% JW Pilsner
5% Carapils
10% polenta

10IBU Marco Polo (60min)
30IBU Marco Polo (15min)
50g Whirlpool additon (cube addition @ 70deg)

That should put a dent in around 80 grams of the stuff! :lol:


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## buttersd70 (5/10/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Also if anyone has any info on each hop and what styles / recipes they'll be suitable for, that'd be handy.



Perhaps it would have been handy to know this _before _even considering purchase? _irrespective _of country of origin, and _irrespective _of if it's wholesale/retail/or bulk buy. _Irrespective _of any pros or cons relating to price, hygiene, quality, or any of the other countless arguments and counter-arguments, both for _and _against......

The pertinent questions are, what are the specs of the hops, and, what can it be used to brew?....something that appears to have been missed.

Just a thought from a 'Pommy Bastard' (which, according to some, is a _racial _remark, not _racist_. _Apparantly _theres a difference......call _me _a 'Pommy Bastard' late at night in a dark alley, and let's just see if there _*is *_a difference  ) who's kept out of the whole mess untill this point in time......


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Perhaps it would have been handy to know this _before _even considering purchase? _irrespective _of country of origin, and _irrespective _of if it's wholesale/retail/or bulk buy. _Irrespective _of any pros or cons relating to price, hygiene, quality, or any of the other countless arguments and counter-arguments, both for _and _against......



Good point butters but in whole honesty, to get a kilo of the unknown for a similar price of 100g of European, US, New Zealand or Local hops is a rather safe bet for me. (i know it is not the case for others.)

Most batches, I usually knock off 70-100g of hops in a beer anyway, so to write it off as a loss equal (or close to) a 100g purchase, isnt all that much of an issue for my hip pocket. (we're currently talking 28 clams + postage for 2KG of hops, im not about to mortgage my tricycle.  ) 

In any case, I highly doubt the beers produced with these hops will be completly and utterly undrinkable (if that was the case, i'd say the most of us with hop gardens in our yard would have similiar results whcih is indeed incorrect).

My plan is to keep the malt bills simple (to help the hops shine) and to treat them like most 'new world' hops in being evergreen or citrus like. Which is quite complementry to my brewing style anyway. This may not be if you're brewing style does not venture outside the British Isles which is understandable.

Suffice to say i bet the guys buying up will be biting at the bit to try these suckers out and we will see some tasting notes and killer recipes within a few weeks of them landing on our doorsteps. Thus building ideas for recipe formation and beer style 'coining'.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

I'd be happy to send you 100g of each for one of your finest bitters/butters!! 

EDIT:


buttersd70 said:


> The pertinent questions are, what are the *specs* of the hops, and, what can it be used to brew?....something that appears to have been missed.



Sorry Butters, missed this bit. Specs have been posted in the relevant threads but the aroma/palate properties are unknown at this stage.


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## reviled (5/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> My plan so far is a Cream Ale SMASH (with a little leniency on the malt bill) with Marco Polo (if the buy for it gets off the ground).
> 
> I'm calling it: "Marco? POLO!"
> 
> ...



Only 80gms?? Pussy


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

Agree Butters but no one knows what these are like so I guess we are in the same boat. Besides if they are lacking in flavour and aroma they will still make a cheap bittering hop.

I reckon I am just going to do my usual Summer Ale/Smash-ish style of ale with US05 so it's all clean and clear what these hops are and what they can potentially do.

Something like:

8kg Galaxy Pale Malt or BB
1kg Wheat Pale
0.3kg Carared

Mash at 64C to keep it dry and pop to the hops a little more (double batch obviously)

Hop Schedule something like this depends on AA%'s and smell
20-30 gm#1 (60 min)20-30 gm#1 (30 min)10-15 gm#1 (20 min) 20.00 gm#1 (5 min)
Chap Chap


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## Maple (5/10/09)

Chappo said:


> I reckon I am just going to do my usual Summer Ale/Smash-ish style of ale with US05 so it's all clean and clear what these hops are and what they can potentially do.
> 
> Something like:
> 
> ...



I'll be doing a cRAPa - chinese-hopped Rye American Pale ale...


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

Maple said:


> I'll be doing a cRAPa - chinese-hopped Rye American Pale ale...



Hahaha Fantastic!


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

Maple said:


> I'll be doing a cRAPa - chinese-hopped Rye American Pale ale...



ROFL! :lol: That is gold 

You know I am gunna have to brew it now? Especially since you've used the secret word, Rye!


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

reviled said:


> Only 80gms?? Pussy



@ 14% AA i'd struggle for any more! Ok, I lied! I just chalked it up... 95 grams B) 

Marco? POLO! 
Classic American Pilsner 
Type: All Grain
Date: 5/10/2009 
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0 

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 81.8 % 
0.50 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 9.1 % 
0.50 kg Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 9.1 % 
5.00 gm Marco Polo [14.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 8.6 IBU 
40.00 gm Marco Polo [14.00%] (15 min) Hops 31.2 IBU 
50.00 gm Marco Polo [14.00%] (0 min) Hops - 
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 39.8 IBU
Est Color: 3.4 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 14.34 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 9.18 L of water at 94.4 C 75.6 C 10 min 

Notes
Ferment LOWWWWW with 1272! (unless you end up using a lager yeast from a repitch)


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

Hops will have no where to hide in that one 4star NOICE! Est Color: 3.4 SRM


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## Kleiny (5/10/09)

Maple said:


> I'll be doing a cRAPa - chinese-hopped Rye American Pale ale...



Trust you to be doing a rye maple

Im going to try and do a perfect pilsner with the saaz

and hop the crap out of APA with Cascade for the next year. Until my Mt Hood produce and then it is gonna be a ryePA in your honour  

Kleiny


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## reviled (5/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> @ 14% AA i'd struggle for any more! Ok, I lied! I just chalked it up... 95 grams B)
> 
> Marco? POLO!
> Classic American Pilsner
> ...




:icon_drool2: 

Well... Hopefully... lol, one things for sure youll definately know what marco polo tastes and smells like!


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

Chappo said:


> Hops will have no where to hide in that one 4star NOICE! Est Color: 3.4 SRM




You think thats light, Try my xmas swap beer.. 2.9 SRM. I'd say its going to look like Straw!


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## winkle (5/10/09)

I still like the thought of an Imperial CAP using resiniously large amounts of Marco Polo Bittering and wasteful amounts of &copy; saaz. :icon_cheers:


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> You think thats light, Try my xmas swap beer.. 2.9 SRM. I'd say its going to look like Straw!



2.9 SRM are you kidding? I saw that CAP a while you did. Don't you like colour? Or are you just racist? h34r:


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## Sully (5/10/09)

Chappo said:


> 2.9 SRM are you kidding? I saw that CAP a while you did. Don't you like colour? Or are you just racist? h34r:






He is definitely not racist going off the Dunkle Hazlenut Brown from the other day.... :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:


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## Effect (5/10/09)

If I had 1 kilo of a hop at that price, I would be doing some mega mash hop additions...


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## benno1973 (5/10/09)

Chappo said:


> 2.9 SRM are you kidding? I saw that CAP a while you did. Don't you like colour? Or are you just racist? h34r:



That's _racial_ Chappo, not _racist_


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

Kaiser Soze said:


> That's _racial_ Chappo, not _racist_



:lol: 

Let's not go there again


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## mckenry (5/10/09)

Not in on the buy myself, but looking forward to reading the results.
Yep, somebody has to be first. May as well be 4*
You know how they could tell who the pioneers of the west were? They were the ones with the arrows in their backs...
Take that as you will h34r:


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

Chappo said:


> 2.9 SRM are you kidding? I saw that CAP a while you did. Don't you like colour? Or are you just racist? h34r:



That CAP i did post fermentation (i only showed the pre ferment measurment), just a tad lighter than this!


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

mckenry said:


> You know how they could tell who the pioneers of the west were? They were the ones with the arrows in their backs...
> Take that as you will h34r:



Taking one for the team. One hop pellet at a time!


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## Bribie G (5/10/09)

I've ordered Cluster and Saaz and will be looking to do something like a Plide of Lingwood Aussie Raagger.

Edit: not sure whether to use US-O-fye or Swiss Lager One-ay-nye


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## winkle (5/10/09)

Hmmm, I'm starting to really warm too the idea of a strong lager as my case swap beer and have each bottle in its own brown paper bag. B)


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## buttersd70 (5/10/09)

Kaiser Soze said:


> That's _racial_ Chappo, not _racist_



Chappo's not racist _or _racial.....he's Gnome-ist! h34r: 

:lol: :lol:


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## clarkey7 (5/10/09)

IPA, IIPA, ABA, IABA, IRA, Black IPA and a 60min IPA (more if I can be bothered).

Good timing on the bulk Cascade.

PB


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## MarkBastard (5/10/09)

I've got a bad feeling the 2kg of hops I ordered aren't going to last nearly as long as I'm thinking haha.

I'm hoping this bulk buy becomes a semi-regular affair. Would love to use these hops as my standard fair and still buy smaller quantities from the LHBS when I need a bigger range.


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## kram (5/10/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I've got a bad feeling the 2kg of hops I ordered aren't going to last nearly as long as I'm thinking haha.
> 
> I'm hoping this bulk buy becomes a semi-regular affair. Would love to use these hops as my standard fair and still buy smaller quantities from the LHBS when I need a bigger range.


Did you get Marco Polo? Can you add to your order? If you can, help fourstar out and get Marco Polo. At 14% AA you will need **** all to get your main bittering for the beer out of it and just use the others for flavor/aroma. ...just hope it's a clean bittering hop. I didn't get any as I've got a lot of southern cross which I use 15gms or so to get a bittering hit


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## haysie (5/10/09)

BribieG said:


> I've ordered Cluster and Saaz and will be looking to do something like a Plide of Lingwood Aussie Raagger.
> 
> Edit: not sure whether to use US-O-fye or Swiss Lager One-ay-nye



BribieG, your an abouts and thereabouts man. What do you honestly make of the chinese hop BB. I am not in, nor will i be, i wont cannn it and i wont endorse it. Save a few bucks? is it worthwhile? Next time you order hops from Australia how will you feel?


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

haysie said:


> BribieG, your an abouts and thereabouts man. What do you honestly make of the chinese hop BB. I am not in, nor will i be, i wont cannn it and i wont endorse it. Save a few bucks? is it worthwhile? Next time you order hops from Australia how will you feel?
> The question is @ BribieG. The plide of thing should have been deleted by the moderators before I announce you as a racist pig!




Oh gwad your a knob! Have you met Bribie and his beautiful wife? Grow up.


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## Bribie G (5/10/09)

SWMBO 




is Chinese / Aboriginal - her mob came over from China for the Palmer River Gold Rush in NQ at the end of the 19th century and when the gold ran out, her grandfather and some of his mates WALKED from Cape York to Sydney and were among the last party of people to be speared by Aborigines (they survived). Her grandfather Charlie Ah Gee worked as a labourer in Sydney and eventually set up an import / export business in Haymarket. SWMBO was born and raised in a little terrace house in Ultimo, round the corner from Chinatown and the house is still there. Her dad was a product of a Chinese guy who married an Aborigine up on the Cape (of course they weren't' allowed to marry white women in those days).

She spent her entire school life being called a 'chong' or a 'ching' despite being Australian as Fosters, but nowadays we are a bit more polite in Australia. 

Me racist?


Bit early on the turps Hays


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## troopa (5/10/09)

Did anyone mention Saaz with more Saaz.. im thinking a Saaz IIPA SMASH maybe ROFL ... ok thats a little silly but currently using 100g+ in a standard batch it aint going to be long to get through a couple of kilos 

Tom


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## Maple (5/10/09)

marksfish said:


> what a load of crud on this thread, so some of us are going to try chinese hops.
> 
> if this kind of thinking happened in the past we would be still pre-wheel


I was serious... I am going to brew a cRAPa.. I'm in on the buy, what's the issue...oh you mean all the other shit stuff.


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## bum (5/10/09)

haysie said:


> Next time you order hops from Australia how will you feel?



This is absolutely backwards thinking. As if anyone has ever been involved with this hobby/craft without ever once using an imported ingredient. Ridiculous.


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## marksfish (5/10/09)

i am in as well, yeh i was on about the other stuff after all some one was the first to try something different!


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## Scruffy (5/10/09)

BTW, does anyone know what one kilo of hops looks like?

...good luck!!


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## sinkas (5/10/09)

500g at 15 min, IIPA 100+IBU OG 1085 (marco polo)


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## peas_and_corn (5/10/09)

So yeah, bringing it back on topic, I'm thinking of doing a 200IBU IIPA a bit after getting them. It'll be very interesting.


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## QldKev (5/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> My plan so far is a Cream Ale SMASH (with a little leniency on the malt bill) with Marco Polo (if the buy for it gets off the ground).
> 
> I'm calling it: "Marco? POLO!"
> 
> ...




You could call is a Marco Solo ??

QldKev


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## Bribie G (5/10/09)

Scruffy said:


> BTW, does anyone know what one kilo of hops looks like?
> 
> ...good luck!!


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## Sully (5/10/09)

BribieG said:


> I've ordered Cluster and Saaz and will be looking to do something like a Plide of Lingwood Aussie Raagger.
> 
> Edit: not sure whether to use US-O-fye or Swiss Lager One-ay-nye





Will it go with Flied Lice?





Sorry couldn't help myself... Carry on...


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## kook (5/10/09)

Guys - please don't feed the troll.

Thread is now cleaned up, but please keep it on topic.


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## haysie (5/10/09)

kook said:


> Guys - please don't feed the troll.
> 
> Thread is now cleaned up, but please keep it on topic.



noice, "kiss"


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## buttersd70 (5/10/09)

40 seconds....a new record.  

just to keep it on topic, do a smash.


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## peas_and_corn (5/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> 40 seconds....a new record.
> 
> just to keep it on topic, do a smash.



I'll do this with the marco polo to see what it tastes like- probably the same recipe as my 1-1 but the Polo subbed for the NS.


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## chappo1970 (5/10/09)

Tell you what though if the hops are good I'm gunna be doing some MASSIVE hop monsters :icon_drunk:


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## Bribie G (5/10/09)

With a kilo of Cluster I'm going to be cranking out glorious XXXX clone after glorious XXXX clone. By this time next year I will definitely be living in a park at Darlinghurst :icon_chickcheers: :icon_chickcheers:


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## haysie (5/10/09)

BribieG said:


> With a kilo of Cluster I'm going to be cranking out glorious XXXX clone after glorious XXXX clone. By this time next year I will definitely be living in a park at Darlinghurst :icon_chickcheers: :icon_chickcheers:



In 2 litre plastic bottles.


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## kram (5/10/09)

BribieG said:


> With a kilo of Cluster I'm going to be cranking out glorious XXXX clone after glorious XXXX clone.


I grabbed a kilo too and this is all I can think of actually making haha. Might try to clone the XXX


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## Bribie G (5/10/09)

kram said:


> I grabbed a kilo too and this is all I can think of actually making haha. Might try to clone the XXX



Funny you should mention that, a drinking buddy is still raving over XXX limited edition and has asked if I could brew a batch of something similar. I didn't mind it myself (a definite example of how Lion can make a reasonable brew if they pull their digits out, as opposed to the woeful summer bright lager). What would be a recipe for XXX I wonder?


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## MarkBastard (5/10/09)

kram only reason I didn't get Marco Polo was I didn't know anything about it.

I'll be up for a KG if it comes down to it. 50/50 decision. If they're short send me a note.


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## MarkBastard (5/10/09)

kram, wanna go halves in a marco polo?

1kg would just be way too much for me i reckon


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## kram (5/10/09)

Sounds good to me.


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## Fourstar (5/10/09)

bum said:


> This is absolutely backwards thinking. As if anyone has ever been involved with this hobby/craft without ever once using an imported ingredient. Ridiculous.


 :icon_offtopic: 
HOLY SMOKES! we all better turn off and burn our computers QUICK! As i can guarantee not one single piece of it came from Australia! While we are at it, burn the server for this board as its likely to be from HP or Sun! Dont want those yanks turning our beer forum into a starbucks!



kram said:


> Did you get Marco Polo? Can you add to your order? If you can, help fourstar out and get Marco Polo. At 14% AA you will need **** all to get your main bittering for the beer out of it and just use the others for flavor/aroma. ...just hope it's a clean bittering hop. I didn't get any as I've got a lot of southern cross which I use 15gms or so to get a bittering hit



Marco Polo... Do it!



QldKev said:


> You could call is a Marco Solo ??
> QldKev


I was trying to go with the old swimming pool game, either waiy, i can't get chewbaca out of my head now!


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## MarkBastard (6/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> HOLY SMOKES! we all better turn off and burn our computers QUICK!



Perhaps good advice for some forum members.


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## Fourstar (6/10/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Perhaps good advice for some forum members.



Hahaha... classic


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## winkle (6/10/09)

Provided all goes well I think I'll be trying this test batch to gauge the saaz profile, before going all out with an 9.5% 100 IBU Imperial Lager.
Lasingan D'Hogshead could be a dangerous place this summer B) .

Chu Dat Hopf Phat 
Strong Lager

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L 
Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 86.67 % 
0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6.67 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 6.67 % 
20.00 gm Saaz (aroma) [3.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
70.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 65.4 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz (aroma) [3.00 %] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
30.00 gm Saaz (aroma) [3.00 %] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
30.00 gm Saaz (aroma) [3.00 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.087 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.52 % 
Bitterness: 76.3 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 4.2 SRM


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## pdilley (6/10/09)

Fourstar said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> HOLY SMOKES!
> Marco Polo... Do it!




Wouldn't it be the greatest laugh if Marco Polo ended up being a fantastic hop and maybe the best of the batch! So much for staying safe and buying only recognisable names even though we know same hops grown in different regions can vary in final product. 

Thats why i'm in for a kilo of every hop. Only way to find out is to pull the balls out and try everything on offer.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## bum (6/10/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> pull the balls out


BIAB?


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## Fourstar (6/10/09)

winkle said:


> before going all out with an 9.5% 100 IBU Imperial Lager.



Just been reading Extreme Brewing by Sam Calagione. Very interested in an Imperial Pilsner... let us know how she goes!



Brewer Pete said:


> Wouldn't it be the greatest laugh if Marco Polo ended up being a fantastic hop and maybe the best of the batch!



Well our purchases are now locked in! lets she how she goes!


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## altone (6/10/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Perhaps it would have been handy to know this _before _even considering purchase? _irrespective _of country of origin, and _irrespective _of if it's wholesale/retail/or bulk buy. _Irrespective _of any pros or cons relating to price, hygiene, quality, or any of the other countless arguments and counter-arguments, both for _and _against......
> 
> The pertinent questions are, what are the specs of the hops, and, what can it be used to brew?....something that appears to have been missed.
> 
> Just a thought from a 'Pommy Bastard' (which, according to some, is a _racial _remark, not _racist_. _Apparantly _theres a difference......call _me _a 'Pommy Bastard' late at night in a dark alley, and let's just see if there _*is *_a difference  ) who's kept out of the whole mess untill this point in time......



Yes you're right - it would be good to know the hop specs and what to brew before buying.

Even knowing the specs or assuming the known names are relatively similar to other growing countries, ie. czech or NZ and maybe chinese saaz would be suited to pilsners, as nobody really knows, you could always don the white lab coat and just check out the results if you're so inclined (as I am).

I've no idea about Marco Polo other than it's high bitterness - lets try a small batch in a previously made ale .. no good? ok how about a lager? still no good - oh well, use as an initial bittering hop in brews for the megaswill drinking mates.

as for racial v racist - my understanding is there is a difference.
There are only 3 races in the world Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid so if you're a racist you hate all Black, White or Yellow folks.
(with some exceptions - ie, back when I was in uni australian aboriginals were listed as caucasoid - that was a long time ago 
though - things change)

The common thinkiing on racial statements though is on a country by country basis - ie. I hate those bloody whinging poms.
And yes butters I am also one of those  

All statements guaranteed as reliable as Wikepedia... maybe even more so.


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## marlow_coates (6/10/09)

Planning on re-reading all the recipes with ridiculously high IBU's in 'Radical Brewing' and 'Brewing Classic Styles', and matching these hops to them.

Have read so much about big IBU beers, but rarely give them a go due to cost of hops, and fear that a small mistake will lead to undrinkable beer that cost a fortune.
Got a kg of Saaz, Marco Polo, and Cascade coming, so very excited to see how they pan out.

The list currently includes:

RIS
IPA
2IPA
Barleywine

Will probably try do 2 more RIS's to store away, along with 2 Barleywines, and in between, the IPA's.
Currently have a massive stockpile of belgiums pales, so when they run out I will be ready for some hops :icon_cheers: 

Marlow


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## Steve (6/10/09)

I'll be doing a 1 hop, 1 grain to give them a run. Im beside myself with excitement.


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## pdilley (6/10/09)

Comon' Steve, lets have an IBU-off!!! 

You push 120, and I'll push 160, you up me to 200 IBUs 

at these prices, you can do it 

My Radical Brewing book ($13.57 by the way) is due in 3 weeks, so I'll have to wait to see some crazy high IBU ideas in it.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## altone (6/10/09)

Back to the original topic, I'll be trying the Chinese Saaz in my house pilsner

Batch size 23l preboil 30l
4.8 Kg Weyermann Pilsner - or subst recent VIC bulk buy Pilsner malt
200g Munich I
60g Saaz 60min
60g Saaz 30min
40g Saaz 15min
60g Czech Saaz plug - in secondary

obviously amounts of hop will be modified based on actual IBU of chinese Saaz

The others ... dunno yet - will wait for specs


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## MarkBastard (12/10/09)

I have found the perfect first beer I think!

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=301

Tony's Little Creatures Bright Ale Clone. It has Saaz and Cascade in it so a good recipe for those that have bought both of those hops.

I'll hopefully have a 40L urn by then so perhaps this will be my first AG as well.


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## Fourstar (12/10/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> My Radical Brewing book ($13.57 by the way) is due in 3 weeks, so I'll have to wait to see some crazy high IBU ideas in it.



unfortunatly its not that 'radical'.


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