# Yeast Starters



## Karhunkynsi (11/7/12)

G'day.

So I'm looking into doing all grain brewing, doing all the research etc. but I'm getting a bit confused by this "Yeast starter" culturing.

Effectively, it looks to me like they're making a liquid yeast, by adding dried yeast. What's the point?

I was under the impression the plan was to take a bit of brew from the barrel and re-culture it into a yeast that could be used in the next batch, but I can't seem to find any instructions on this. 

Any help would be appreciated, bonus points if it's in youtube form, because it seems that a lot of the books focus more on sounding like experts at mathematical equations and brew lingo than in actually telling you HOW it's done. 

Cheers.


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## pimpsqueak (11/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> G'day.
> 
> So I'm looking into doing all grain brewing, doing all the research etc. but I'm getting a bit confused by this "Yeast starter" culturing.
> 
> ...



http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=54900
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=61076

Try these...


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## rehab (11/7/12)

http://billybrew.com/how-to-make-a-yeast-starter


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## glenwal (11/7/12)

A starter is (basically) a way to increase the number of yeast cells before you pitch the yeast into the wort. There is an optimum amount of yeast that should be pitched (there are calculators for this as it depends on a few factors). To few yeast, and it stresses the yeast (too much is also a problem, though unless you make a 10L starter its not nearly as much of a problem)

The main reason for making a starter is so you don't have to buy the yeast (there are other reasons - sticking basic here). Typically 2 packets of dried yeast gives you about the right amount, so if you only have 1 pack (or only want to buy 1) then you can make a starter to increase the numbers. 

Liquid yeast contains far fewer viable cells than dried yeast (and even less again if the pack is a little old), and costs quite a bit more (you pay for quality) so unless you want to fork out for 2-3 packs (or more) of liquid yeast, you make a starter.


Search is your friend (use the google search, not the site one)

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww....amp;x=0&y=0

same goes for youtube 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...0.0.yGmXk9LwetU


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## Karhunkynsi (11/7/12)

Thanks folks!



Wolfy said:


> All grain brewing does _not have_ to involve liquid yeasts or yeast starters.
> Just as kit or kit-and-kilo brewing does _not have_ to involve dry-yeast-sachets.
> 
> I don't think I can make my 'Yeast Starter' instructions (_you posted in that thread yesterday so I have to presume you actually read it_), if you don't understand it (_there was no maths in it that you can't do with your fingers_) then skip it. Either use dry yeast, or simply buy and use however many packs of liquid yeast you need for your recipe.



Yes I did read it, but you have to realise I am NEW at this. Sadly, this appears to be the same as every other forum where newbies are treated with scorn for the simple fact of BEING newbies. How dare I ask a question in the "newbie questions" thread!

Much like anything, people who have been doing these things forever and a day seem to forget that newbies aren't up to your lingo, technical terms, and other people work better off visual stimuli than what they can get out of text. For somebody who's just learning the concept of simple things like "sparging" and "wort", you know, it's going to take a while. There's no need to be nasty about it. The idea of being a beginner is to ask the questions to LEARN these methods because we're AWARE we don't know them. We don't need to be reminded after every post in a harsh manner exactly how new we are.


I'd already mentioned that I'd been doing my research and still couldn't figure it out, but apparently that means I haven't spent enough wasted time on google and youtube without being able to understand it. 

Maybe I should have gone back and wasted MORE time rather than just asking for a simple answer from somebody who can answer a direct question rather than having to sift through all the other crap.

I will in future be absolutely SURE not to ask beginner questions in this beginner forums. It appears I've COMPLETELY mistaken the intent of it's purpose.


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## DJR (11/7/12)

Starters aren't a massive requirement, however there is a few reasons people use them.

- pitching cold needs more cells than a pack of liquid or dry yeast has as yeast will not.grow as well at colder temps
- lagers need more cells as well, they are pitched cold and lager yeast grow differently
- splitting liquid yeast up to.save money means you need a.starter as you are not at a pitchable quantity until you do
- big beers also need a starter as more cells are required than normal-etc

for a good source of info check out the yeastcalc.com site 

that being said plenty of AG brewers use dry yeasts, me being one of.them, usually US05 or Nottingham


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## Thefatdoghead (11/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Thanks folks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude that thread Wolfy did is perfectly clear and very easy to understand. If you cant understand anything to do with liquid yeast and culturing then just buy the dry shit. 
I asked lot's of questions on here when i first started and got heaps of great info and answers but at the end of the day I bought brewing books, brewed beer and made starters to really start learning. The books for me filled in a lot of the gaps. So although we all started out NEW at this everyone knows how to read and learn dont they?
I guess people just get tired of other people wanting them to do all the work. Here is a straight answer for your question though. Buy wyeast packet. poor into wort (water and maltose-sugar) leave for 2 weeks. Thats a 20L starter to easy.


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## jakethesnake559 (11/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Maybe I should have gone back and wasted MORE time rather than just asking for a simple answer from somebody who can an
> I will in future be absolutely SURE not to ask beginner questions in this beginner forums. It appears I've COMPLETELY mistaken the intent of it's purpose.



Hi Karhunkynsi,

C'mon mate, chill out :icon_cheers: !!
Wolfy's post is one of the best guides I've seen on the net if you like pictorial guides.
I think people like to point you to other links rather than re-typing stuff...but generally everyone on here is trying to help.

Re. liquid yeast, you can buy the Wyeast smack packs (about $11).
If you are doing a 23L batch, you will find that one pack is sufficient to ferment normal gravity ales fine without a starter.
Just smack it in the morning when you plan to brew and by the time you are done boiling/cooling, it's ready to pitch.

You will read that you need about 200 billion yeast cells for a normal gravity 20L batch.
The Wyeast smack pack has 100 billion yeast cells (and it's worked fine for me pitched straight into ales without a starter).
Your dry yeast sachet [eg.US-05] has about 6 billion yeast cells per gram (so about 70 billion yeast cells - and works fine).

So I guess a lot of brewers want to increase the cell count without spending a fortune on yeast.
To increase the amount of yeast cells, you can make a starter (basically just a mini-wort that you allow to start fermenting).

Making a starter is worthwhile if you want to increase your yeast count for bigger beers or lagers.
And a bunch of other reasons....

But if you want to have a crack at liquid yeast, I recommend just using the Wyeast smack packs until you get a handle on it.
Rinsing and re-using the yeast cake is a great way to keep the cost down if your sanitising is good and you are brewing often.

Good luck!!
Cheers,
Jake.


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## glenwal (11/7/12)

jakethesnake559 said:


> $11 <snip> 23L <snip> 200 billion <snip> 20L <snip> 100 <snip> 05 <snip> 6 billion <snip> per
> gram <snip> 70 billion yeast



Dude, there's way to much maths in your post


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## Wolfy (11/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Yes I did read it, but you have to realise I am NEW at this. Sadly, this appears to be the same as every other forum where newbies are treated with scorn for the simple fact of BEING newbies. How dare I ask a question in the "newbie questions" thread!



Many people make great beer without using liquid yeast, many people (especially in the USA) make great beer without making a stater - there is nothing about being a newbie to suggest that you should start with simple things and not over-complicate everything. Until you understand the concepts use dry yeast or buy the suggested number of liquid yeast packets. Once you have your brewing procedures under control, understand what "sparging" and "wort" are (John Palmers "How to Brew" book is a great start btw) then move on to more advanced things like liquid yeast and starters.


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## Karhunkynsi (12/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> Dude that thread Wolfy did is perfectly clear and very easy to understand. If you cant understand anything to do with liquid yeast and culturing then just buy the dry shit.
> I asked lot's of questions on here when i first started and got heaps of great info and answers but at the end of the day I bought brewing books, brewed beer and made starters to really start learning. The books for me filled in a lot of the gaps. So although we all started out NEW at this everyone knows how to read and learn dont they?
> I guess people just get tired of other people wanting them to do all the work. Here is a straight answer for your question though. Buy wyeast packet. poor into wort (water and maltose-sugar) leave for 2 weeks. Thats a 20L starter to easy.



*Sigh*

Yes. Minus certain terms like "pitch" which may seem commonplace to blokes like you, not to us newbies, and that's going from one of the simplest things.

I guess the most frustrating part here, is I've asked what the POINT is of making a yeast starter, and everybody's gone "HERE'S THE RECIPE YOU IDIOT!!!". Effectively my question has gone unanswered in fabour of newbie bashing.

I also asked how to re-make yeast by re-using some of the beer from your brew keg.

Once again "HERE'S THE RECIPE YOU IDIOT!!!" (reference back to yeast starter, once again NOTHING even close to the question asked). Question goes unanswered, accusation of not enough research, newbie bashing. 

If I'd have found the answer through my research, why do you think I would have asked? 

Furthermore, what's the point of having a newbie question forum if people are just going to abuse you and tell you to look elsewhere?




Glen W said:


> Dude, there's way to much maths in your post



Well yeah, there is.

That whole answer could have been compressed down to this:



jakethesnake559 said:


> So I guess a lot of brewers want to increase the cell count without spending a fortune on yeast.
> To increase the amount of yeast cells, you can make a starter (basically just a mini-wort that you allow to start fermenting).



Thanks though Jake. Good to know somebody out there's a decent bloke.


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## kymba (12/7/12)

as previously suggested - the first 4 results from doctor google (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=why+yeast+starter ) reveals information such as:-

from beersmith.com:
_The quality of your homebrew can be dramatically improved by making a yeast starter. Home brewers often toss a packet or vial of yeast into their beer without much thought to the quantity needed. Though modern liquid brewers yeast smack packs and vials are a huge improvement over older dry yeast packs, these packages do not contain enough yeast cells for optimal pitching. Underpitching results in slower startup, higher risk of infection, off flavors and sometimes incomplete fermentation._

from absolutehomebrew.com.au:
_Making a yeast starter is the foundation technique for working with yeast. Use this technique to re-culture yeasts from bottled beers. The necessary equipment is quite simple: a suitable bottle (preferably PET) with a bung and airlock to suit, a funnel, and a handsprayer for your sanitising solution._

from hbd.org:
_The quantity of yeast in a Wyeast "smack pack" typically isn't anywhere near enough to give you a fast, healthy fermentation. That's why it is a good idea to make a starter. The idea behind making a yeast starter is to provide the small number of yeast cells from a Wyeast package with an ideal environment in which they can build up their health and numbers, with no competition from other competing microbes. Then, when the contents of the starter are pitched into your wort, you will get a shorter lag time, and a faster fermentation. This in turn will result in a cleaner tasting beer, and reduce the chances of infection, because your yeast will take over quickly, leaving little time for unwanted microbes to gain a foothold._

and lastly, from howtobrew.com:
_*Preparing Liquid Yeast*
Liquid yeast is generally perceived as being superior to dry yeast because of the greater variety of yeast strains available. Liquid yeast allows for greater tailoring of the beer to a particular style. However, the amount of yeast in a liquid packet is much less than the amount in the dry. Liquid yeast usually must be pitched to a starter wort before pitching to the main wort in the fermenter. *Using a starter gives yeast a head start and increases the population preventing weak fermentations due to under-pitching.*_

i call bullshit that you googled anything - oh, and it even lists some yt videos in the results


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## glenwal (12/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Yes. Minus certain terms like "pitch" which may seem commonplace to blokes like you, not to us newbies, and that's going from one of the simplest things.


If you don't know the meaning, try googling it. How are we supposed to know what words you do and do not know? Do you know what brewing is? what fermenting is? what wort is? How about flask? or clean? or sanitised? or kitten?


I just tried googling "pitch yeast", and the very first result (without even opening the link)

Pitching the Yeast - HomeBrewTalk Wiki

www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Pitching_the_YeastCached - Similar

14 Dec 2008 Fermentation begins with the pitching of the yeast. "Pitching" is simply a brewer's term meaning to add the yeast to the fermenter. Before ...






Karhunkynsi said:


> I guess the most frustrating part here, is I've asked what the POINT is of making a yeast starter,
> and everybody's gone "HERE'S THE RECIPE YOU IDIOT!!!".


The frustrating part is how obvious it is that you aren't willing to put in any effort to finding the answers and you want everything spoon fed to you. If you can't be bothered to search for things your self (as pointed out above (in kymba's post and in the top of this post), the 1st page on goolge answers all of your questions. So what research is it you have supposedly done?




Karhunkynsi said:


> Furthermore, what's the point of having a newbie question forum if people are just going to abuse you and tell you to look elsewhere?


This isn't a newbie question forum. This is the "Beginners Partial/AG" forum - with the description of "Making the move from Kits to AG".

I'd suggest you stick to the forum with the description "Post in this section if you are a new brewer ", and not try to swim out of your depth before someone decides to "drop everything they're doing, come over to your house, and choke a kitten in front of you as an object lesson"


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## rehab (12/7/12)

Two posts down (from your first post) I put a link for you complete with a video of someone actually doing the yeast starter. Is that not what you were after?

PS I dont think people are really having go they just may be feeling they have given the answers and you haven't said what specifically doesn't make sense.

If it's the why then usually to do with the fact the brewer is making a high gravity beer and wants a healthy amount of yeast or other common needs for this are the yeast could be older and they want to make sure there are enough healthy cells to drop to the gravity needed to bottle.
There is also the need for starters when making lagers and pilsners. But it can just be easy enough to pitch one or two packs of dry yeast.

I have had my first crack at liquid yeast and its stopped fermenting completely and no amount of rousing at a nice temp has woken it back up so I know I should focus more in the future on maybe making a starter and that link I posted and Wolfys post on here have helped me understand how to make it easy on myself.

For now though I have just pitched some 05 to try and drop it down to an acceptable bottling gravity. Fingers crossed.


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## DJR (12/7/12)

> Effectively my question has gone unanswered in fabour of newbie bashing.



OK, so I tried to help and didn't engage in "newbie bashing", sorry won't do it again...



DJR said:


> Starters aren't a massive requirement, however there is a few reasons people use them.
> 
> - pitching cold needs more cells than a pack of liquid or dry yeast has as yeast will not.grow as well at colder temps
> - lagers need more cells as well, they are pitched cold and lager yeast grow differently
> ...


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## JaseH (12/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> G'day.
> 
> So I'm looking into doing all grain brewing, doing all the research etc. but I'm getting a bit confused by this "Yeast starter" culturing.
> 
> Effectively, it looks to me like they're making a liquid yeast, by adding dried yeast. What's the point?




You generally start with yeast already in liquid form when making a starter. A starter is a way of increasing the amount of yeast you have before you 'pitch'(ie. throw it into your fermenter) with the wort. Normally you dont need to make a starter if you are using dry yeast as there is either already enough in one pack of dry yeast, or its easier/cheaper to throw in 2 packs to increase numbers.



> I was under the impression the plan was to take a bit of brew from the barrel and re-culture it into a yeast that could be used in the next batch, but I can't seem to find any instructions on this.



You can save some of the left over yeast slurry from your fermenter after a fermenting a batch, this is not making a starter though. If you have a very small amount of saved yeast slurry from a previous batch then you can make a starter to increase the amount of yeast again.



> Any help would be appreciated, bonus points if it's in youtube form, because it seems that a lot of the books focus more on sounding like experts at mathematical equations and brew lingo than in actually telling you HOW it's done.
> 
> Cheers.



Mate, there is a learning curve to all this and it takes time. Its sounds to me like your trying to jump in too high up the curve! There is enough to learn with AG without having to worry about making starters as well. I'd forget the yeast starter thing to begin with and stick with pitching dry yeast packets until you are comfortable with the other brewing specifics and then look at trying it out.


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## Dave70 (12/7/12)

Here's what I do.

100g of dry malt extract in 1L of water, boil it, cool it, pour it into my sanitised demijohn and ad the yeast I'll be using for the brew.
Let it do its thing for a day or so, then pour it into the fermrnter and add the wort.
Dry, liquid or a stubbie's worth of re-claimed slurry from the bottom of the fermenter, they all get the same treatment. 
I do this every time for two simple reasons. Basically with the volume of beer I can produce at one hit, I'll never underpitch, two, and most importantly, I _know_ the yeast is good to go. That would be the 'point' bit as far as I'm concerned.
Now stop splitting hairs, *_sighing_* and brew some ******* beer already.


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## Wolfy (12/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> *Sigh*
> 
> Yes. Minus certain terms like "pitch" which may seem commonplace to blokes like you, not to us newbies, and that's going from one of the simplest things.
> 
> ...


You actually did not ask that, your original question and follow-ups are much more convoluted - which is why myself and others are so confused as to what you want.
What you are asking is answered in even the most basic brewing texts, either online, in real-book or ebook format, I seriously suggest you read one. Your question is one of those things that is so obvious to most anyone who knows even a little bit about fermenting would take it for granted that everyone knows the answer - kind-of-like driving your car on the correct side of the road, everyone takes that for granted (even if they do it differently in different parts of the world).

*The "How to Brew" book (which I suggested earlier), is a great starting point for anyone looking to get into home-brewing and is avaible free on the internet:
http://www.howtobrew.com/*
I don't think strongly suggesting you go read it is calling you an idiot, or suggesting anything bad - however it does contain much of the basic knowledge that you are asking for others to spoon-feed you - a little research and reading on your part would go a long way, and at least allow you to ask future questions in ways that other people understand your intent.

Now that you have asked your question more clearly, let me try and answer it for you:

When adding yeast (_pitching_) to your malt-sugar solution (_wort_) you need to add the 'correct' quantity of live (_viable_) yeast cells, so they can do their job successfully (_ferment sugars into alcohol and create other byproducts_). The 'correct' amount of yeast depends on the volume (_how much you have_), gravity (_how much sugar you have, ie: how strong it is_) and type of beer you are making (_eg: English Ale, American Ale, Lager, Wheat or Alt Beer_) (*please read How to Brew*).
However, manufacturers do supply home-brewers with a custom made packet of yeast in the 'correct' quantity for each individual beer they make.
So home brewers need to either buy and pitch more than one packet of yeast (_either dry or liquid form_) and use those *OR* they need to grow their own yeast so that they can get the 'correct' amount of yeast to make their beer.
Growing yeast is called "making a starter", you might also "make a starter" to improve the health (vitality) of the yeast, "making a starter" is most important when using liquid forms of yeast, which is an advanced topic that most new-brewers do not need to worry about for some time, because using dry yeast and/or buy the required number of packets of liquid yeast is easier and simpler.


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## manticle (12/7/12)

Karhunkynsi - I mean this in a nice way but please brush the chip off your shoulder (and please stop typing in red).

Everyone else - ease up a bit. S/he has a point, even if the defensiveness is a little over the top. People are supposed to be able to ask questions here. I sure learnt a hell of a lot and quite quickly because other people (Butters, Screwtop and numerous others) were kind enough to help me out with some of my earlier dumb/strange questions.

Yes I read a lot, brew a lot and **** up a lot but enthusiasm for the craft should be welcomed, not castigated. 

Karhunkynsi (again) - the answers are there (both in this thread and in wolfy's very useful guides). I understand it's not always immediately obvious when you're new to it. In my experience, reading things a few times until you kind of get it, then trying it out, then re-reading and associating reading with results helps your brewing learning the most. Have a crack - the worst that can happen is you buy some more yeast. Reasons and terminology have been outlined so I have no need to add to that but I'm usually happy to answer questions if I feel I know the answer well enough. If I don't, I'll say so.


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## Karhunkynsi (12/7/12)

manticle said:


> Karhunkynsi - I mean this in a nice way but please brush the chip off your shoulder (and please stop typing in red).
> 
> Everyone else - ease up a bit. S/he has a point, even if the defensiveness is a little over the top. People are supposed to be able to ask questions here. I sure learnt a hell of a lot and quite quickly because other people (Butters, Screwtop and numerous others) were kind enough to help me out with some of my earlier dumb/strange questions.
> 
> ...



Thankyou kindly, but as I keep trying to tell people, I ran through google, books, the instructionals and a few other bits and pieces and still didn't get it, and couldn't find the recipe for re-using part of your beer to make yeast, which is why I asked the question. 

It seems that the fact that I researched it until I got frustrated at a lack of answer and dared to ask means I was punished for not continuing to research. And that asking a question means everyone instantly assumes you DIDN'T research.

Would somebody kindly give me a research benchmark so I don't get my head chewed off next time? Because considering how many afternoons I've spent trying to wrap my head around this shit, I thought I might have been justified in asking a simple question.

So as you can imagine the chip is 100% reactive. If people bite, I bite back. If people are nice, I'm nice back. I'm not going to accept unfair treatment just because somebody is a "forum veteran", nor am I going to bite somebody who's being pleasant. Quid pro quo.


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## pimpsqueak (12/7/12)

In your 1st post you said you couldn't find any instructions on how to harvest yeast. You also made it abundantly clear you had no real clue what a starter is or how to make one, or even why.

The links I provided you with gave very easy to follow info on how and why to make a starter. Post #7 also told you the reasons you might want to make a starter.
This thread: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&hl=rinsing will tell you how to harvest yeast from a brew and reuse it in a following brew.

If you don't understand a term, why don't you ask a question about it in the thread that contains the info you are confused about, rather than make a new one?

There are plenty of terms I didn't know when I started but I just read up, googled and read up some more. If you were to go to a brew day with some local brewers, you could ask any questions you like and they'll all be answered. No way anything can be taken out of context that way...

P.S The internet tough-guy comment would have made you seem a lot tougher if you put your location in your profile.


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## going down a hill (12/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Would somebody kindly give me a research benchmark


http://www.howtobrew.com
Damn good read, walks you through the process of making beer. Btw I'm not trying to take the piss with the address being so literal.


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## manticle (12/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Thankyou kindly, but as I keep trying to tell people, I ran through google, books, the instructionals and a few other bits and pieces and still didn't get it, and couldn't find the recipe for re-using part of your beer to make yeast, which is why I asked the question.
> 
> It seems that the fact that I researched it until I got frustrated at a lack of answer and dared to ask means I was punished for not continuing to research. And that asking a question means everyone instantly assumes you DIDN'T research.
> 
> ...



I understand that you researched and still 'didn't get it'.

If anything, I am on your side because someone with questions who has made an effort to help themselves (as I believe you have) is worthy of having their questions considered and treated with respect.

I am suggesting that, regardless of whether you feel justified in your attitude and regardless of whether a few people could probably back off a little in theirs (and remember that the internet isn't completely anoymous); you should relax, grow a thicker skin and read between the internet lines. For every person that's been pricky/prickly so far, there's been another who has tried to answer your question. Engage with them and ask further what you don't understand rather than try and deal with every person whose attitude you don't agree with.

Dodge, rather than bulldoze.

If there are questions that haven't yet been fully answered, ask them again, to me, clearly and (PLEASE) without that red font and I will do my best to answer or refer you to where you may find the answer.

I'll do my best, you do yours.


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## Wolfy (13/7/12)

First post, question followed by a question mark:


Karhunkynsi said:


> Effectively, it looks to me like they're making a liquid yeast, by adding dried yeast. What's the point?


After that was answered by multiple people, we have questions 2 and 3:


Karhunkynsi said:


> I guess the most frustrating part here, is I've asked what the POINT is of making a yeast starter, and everybody's gone "HERE'S THE RECIPE YOU IDIOT!!!". Effectively my question has gone unanswered in fabour of newbie bashing.
> 
> I also asked how to re-make yeast by re-using some of the beer from your brew keg.


After clearly explaining the point of a starter (which was promptly ignored, as was the red typing thing), and being directed to *How To Brew* (which was also ignored).
*Question 3 is answered on the first post of the the first link, in the first reply to this thread, a thread which you posted in before you made this one!*

Before you add yeast, 'beer' is called 'wort', the 'last runnings' are the last part of the wort you get from the 'mash-tun' where you add water to the grain to make your 'wort' - so you have already been told and shown a picture of how you can use 'wort' to make a 'starter' without using LDME. It is an infinitesimally small step to extend that concept to 'wort' that comes out of your kettle, or is taken from the 'fermentor' before you 'pitch' yeast.

So you've either read how to do this, and not understood it, maybe because of the brewing-terms used, because you have not even read the most basic book the subject,
Or you're actually trying to ask question #4 which is different again:
How do I harvest yeast from a previous batch of beer and use again in the next batch, by making a starter?
Which is answered, in more pictures in this thread, which is likely you'd not have found because without knowing the correct brewing terms for it, you'd not be able to find.



Karhunkynsi said:


> Asked for the recipe to "re-culture yeast from taking a bit of brew from the barrel"


There is no answer to that question, and there is no recipe, because that question is not logical and it does not make sense.
(_You are asking the equivalent of how to start a car by pouring petrol into the radiator - something that is logical to most anyone who has an even basic understand of the concept of how a car works would not do._)

Either you are asking how to use your wort (unfermented beer) to make a starter to grow yeast from a packet
_(which is was already answered for you, and is the most logical question you are asking since the topic of this thread is "Yeast Starter")_
_or_
you are asking how to repitch yeast from your previous batch of beer.
_(which is a totally different question, but answered on the link provided just above)_



Karhunkynsi said:


> You're comparing something you grow up learning with something I'm only just learning now. That's like saying everybody knows how to drive manual "it's common sense". No. It's something that's taught, something that not everybody knows, and something that not everybody gets a handle on straight away.
> 
> Once again, what may be obvious to YOU is not always obvious to somebody else. This is the point *I* have been trying to make, did you read that?
> 
> And thankyou OH so kindly for answering my question. It's so talented of you to be able to do it at the same time as firing a trebuchet load of shit at me.


Driving a manual-car is not the analogy I used, driving on the correct side of the road was, and yes that is something that most pre-school children learn by osmosis and not direct learning.
In regard to brewing beer, my grandfather made home-brew (which I never saw or was allowed to drink) but my father did not, I had no experience, knowledge or understanding of home-brewing until I was given a free Coopers-kit and found these forums. The first batch of beer I just made - 1 month after my forum join date - was made with dry yeast (something I have suggested multiple times you do also), the second - one month later - after reading a few books and these forums was with recultured coopers yeast and a starter. I've also made more than a few stupid, uneducated and idiotic posts here, that I don't even want to go back and re-read.



Karhunkynsi said:


> I'm a troll?


Seems that way to me, but if you read How to Brew at least you will know what terms to use and what questions to ask next time you have a question.
If you refuse to do some learning of your own, continue to be stupid (post in red text, don't read/undrstand what forum members suggest, including that this forum is NOT a beginners brewing forum, and ignore what is sensible advice to most forum members), then you'll continue to be a troll (or just plain stupid and so trolling is a much nicer thing to be).



Karhunkynsi said:


> Here's an excerpt from your first response to my question.
> 
> 
> > I don't think I can make my 'Yeast Starter' instructions (you posted in that thread yesterday so I have to presume you actually read it), if you don't understand it (there was no maths in it that you can't do with your fingers) then skip it.
> ...


I stand totally 100% behind that comment, it is not inflammatory, derogatory or trolling, it is totally genuine legitimate helpful and very good advice for a new brewer.
Especially since that quote was preceeded with this one:


> All grain brewing does not have to involve liquid yeasts or yeast starters.
> Just as kit or kit-and-kilo brewing does not have to involve dry-yeast-sachets



And soon after when you explained how new you were, I said essentially this:

Starters are a complicated thing that you do not need to make good beer - many good home brewers do not use starters, and they find it a complex subject.
Liquid yeast (and hence starters) are much more difficult than using dry yeast - many good home brewers do not use liquid yeast.
Dry yeast can produce great home brewed beer, when using dry yeast you do not need all the complexity of making a starter, or even having to understand or think about it.
Hence:
*If you don't understand it then skip it* making or even understanding how to make a starter, the starter process, is not something you need to know, learn or do to make good home brewed beer. Give up on the trolling, grab some dry yeast, make a few batches of beer, read some books, understand the basic concepts and then, if you think you want or need to, experiment with liquid yeast, and then consider making a starter (for many people this is a process that takes years if it ever happens).

You have just jumped into the deep-end of the brewing swimming pool without even the concept of how to float, let alone swim. Rather than flail your arms and legs around drowning (which can actually look quite stupid when it's really a serious thing), take a step back to the shallow-end of the pool. Dip your toes safely into brewing pool and don't over-complicate the process, because at that end the water only comes up to your knees (the analogy here is using dry yeast) so you don't need to know how to float (the analogy here is liquid yeast) or swim in water over your head (obviously the analogy here is making a starter) to have a fun and relaxing time (and to make decent beer).


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## Yob (13/7/12)

let me start by saying that im not trying to invoke your wrath here.

Quite a few informative links have been posted for you, quite (many of which helped me get started) ALOT of info has been posted for you, (all of which is great info). Many suggestions have been made (mostly ignored)

PLEASE, re-read the thread, follow the links and do the research, understanding cannot be handed to you in 5 minutes but rather it 'grows' over a period of time and right conditions, much like a starter.

Good luck


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## spudfarmerboy (13/7/12)

Karhunkynski,
If you can't follow the advice you have been given, or can't be bothered researching for yourself, why don't you find another hobby that is much easier for you to understand.
You ask questions but you don't listen or comprehend.
Are you one of these people that wants everything handed to you on a plate?


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## chunckious (13/7/12)

I believe Glen answered your question in the 3rd post.
If he is using termonology you dont understand then educate yourself. 
If this is to much of a brain strain, please turn off your computer and go down to Dan Murphy's and buy the advertised special of the week.


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## glenwal (13/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Asked for the recipe to "re-culture yeast from taking a bit of brew from the barrel"
> 
> Kept being given recipe for yeast starter made from DME.
> 
> Just wow.



Your thread is titled Yeast Starters, and you got instructions for making a yeast starter - yep thats just not acceptable.


And to your car analogy, dealing with you basically goes like this

Karhunkynsi: Can you tell me how to drive a manual car
Instructor: First put your foot on the clutch
Karhunkynsi: Ah **** off, your not helping, stop using words like clutch that i don't understand even though i've read every book there is about how cars work.
Instructor: The clutch is the pedal under your left foot, you need to push it in to change gears, if your read a basic car book you'd know that
Karhunkynsi: I did read it, now tell me how to drive a manual car
Instructor: I already told you, first put your foot on the clutch
Karhunkynsi: I said i don't know what clutch is, these terms might be basic to you, but i don't know what it means. Now why can't anyone tell me how to ride a motor cycle
Instructor: I thought you wanted to drive a manual car
Karhunkynsi: *sigh* i never said that, i want to ride a motor cycle but people just keep telling me how to drive a manual car.
Instructor: Ok, well the lever on the right is the clutch
Karhunkynsi: Ah **** you - stop using these technical terms - i didn't grow up around cars so how am i supposed to know what a clutch is.
Instructor: Well heres some books on how a motor cycle works, why don't you read them, they have really good information about what a clutch is.
Karhunkynsi: I already did my research, now why can't you teach me to ride a motor cycle. 





edit: forgot the red font


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## DU99 (13/7/12)

look at  or even


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## bum (13/7/12)

Wolfy said:


> Driving a manual-car is not the analogy I used, driving on the correct side of the road was, and yes that is something that most pre-school children learn by osmosis and not direct learning.


I'd argue that this isn't the case. I'd suggest that most kids learn it standing on the side of the road, holding mum's hand, being told how dangerous the road is and how important it is to look right first when crossing the road.

Some pretty good mums have tried to help you in this thread, Karhunkynsi. Read it again. Actually, forget that - the way this forum works obviously isn't a good fit for you. Join a brew club in your local area and you'll find that you can explain yourself better and accept any advice in the spirit offered (and be less inclined to shit on someone for the assistance they offer).


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## DJR (13/7/12)

How about instead of asking questions and then taking major exception with a few paragraphs of ranting over some perceived slight against you, ask questions, take the advice, if you still have questions then articulate them again. This whole thread has gone way way out of proportion due to over-reaction.

At the end of the day this forum is designed to provide advice, not answer every single question that might be raised in your post and I don't think it's right to go off over some perceived lack of answer to a particular part of your question. Take it or leave it.

As others have said find a brew club or accomodating brewer in your local area and turn up to some brewdays and watch over the process. I take it you are the kind of person who learns by doing rather than reading, so get to it and start doing. If you need more information then PLEASE do not start taking exception to some perception of "newbie bashing" and just ask again till you get it.

Another good guide on here about re-using yeast is this - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=3697

Oh yeah, RDWHAHB (Relax, don't worry, have another home brew) B)


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## donburke (13/7/12)

found a youtube video that shows you how to make a starter


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## Byran (13/7/12)

This thread has kept me laughing for ages! 
I am so impressed how much information all of you guys have given on yeast re culturing, from packet, bottle, dry, vial, reasons, explanations, pictures, videos.:icon_offtopic: .

Just fantastic. Helped me out immensely 

Cheers.


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## NewtownClown (13/7/12)

donburke said:


> found a youtube video that shows you how to make a starter




That is waaay too technical!


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## Byran (13/7/12)

"I was under the impression the plan was to take a bit of brew from the barrel"


Question.

Does anyone brew beer in a "Barrel". Just asking because I cant find it anywhere in my literature...... 
I googled it. 
I swear.
I just cant understand this "barrel" jargon.

Sorry Boys.


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## Tony (13/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> I am however a "jump in the deep end" kind of person, so I'm kind of keen to just get it all running from the word go. I'm happy to make mistakes.



I am the same....... deep end learner.

I started AG brewing after just a few kits. and using liquid yeasts at the same time.

I, as many of the people who have posted useful info in this thread, did so with minimal help because we just jumped in the deep end and made some mistakes, and learnt from them. You have admitted you are happy to do this, so why not just jump in and give it a go?

I take a bit of info from books and the net, and then construct my own way of doing it, to suit what equipment i have and my style of doing things.

If it fails, try and work out why yourself....... its the best way to learn.

You seem to be very good at reading and taking in the text content of the posters and turning it around into confrontation ....... better than most by far. I think you can work out what starters are needed for, and how to make them from the wealth of info out there, and some common sense, deep end style!

just give it a go.


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## Nevalicious (14/7/12)

Karhunkynsi said:


> Thankyou kindly, but as I keep trying to tell people, I ran through google, books, the instructionals and a few other bits and pieces and still didn't get it, and couldn't find the recipe for re-using part of your beer to make yeast, which is why I asked the question.
> 
> It seems that the fact that I researched it until I got frustrated at a lack of answer and dared to ask means I was punished for not continuing to research. And that asking a question means everyone instantly assumes you DIDN'T research.
> 
> ...



Sooky sooky, farkin whinge winge... *Sigh* 

Go find another hobby...


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