# Cask and Hand-pump



## Jason_brews_beer

Hi guys,

I'm interested in getting casks and hand-pumps for my home bar. Does anyone know how available these are and where i could get them. Had a quick google and not much comes up.

Also if anyone knows where i can go drink cask ale in Brisbane please let me know!! I missing it pretty badly since leaving 
London last year.

Cheers!


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## S.E

Jason_brews_beer said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm interested in getting casks and hand-pumps for my home bar. Does anyone know how available these are and where i could get them. Had a quick google and not much comes up.
> 
> Also if anyone knows where i can go drink cask ale in Brisbane please let me know!! I missing it pretty badly since leaving
> London last year.
> 
> Cheers!


Cask ales and hand pumps are really simple and my favourite beer dispensing method but unfortunately cause a lot of controversy and disapproval here with some of the mainly keg orientated AHB members. I can possibly help with getting cask ale to your home bar but be prepared for an avalanche of disapproval.

What did you want to know?

Cheers
Sean


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## sp0rk

A beer engine is your easiest and most expensive option, shipping from the UK will set you back between $80-$150 depending on the seller
Ebay has some every now and then, but the price has seemed to be climbing as of late
Otherwise if you know someone who's in the UK or visting there, you can get them to send/bring one back for you
The cheapest and slightly more involved way is making an engine using a toggle pump from a caravan/RV
Like this http://byo.com/porter/item/346-build-a-beer-engine-projects
the Valterra RP800 pump in that project plus a spare piston/seal kit will set you back around $50 shipped from the US on amazon
A lot of guys on here are using collapsible water containers such as http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Collapsible-Water-Container-20L.aspx?pid=114174&menuFrom=571633#Cross
The benefit of the collapsible container is there is little to no oxygen contact, so you don't need to drink the ale quickly like you would have to in a proper cask (unless you're using a respirator, and then it's not real ale afaik)

*edit*
I forgot to mention, the cheapest I've seen one for in Australia is about $200 used but in decent condition


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## sp0rk

S.E said:


> Cask ales and hand pumps are really simple and my favourite beer dispensing method but unfortunately cause a lot of controversy and disapproval here with some of the mainly keg orientated AHB members. I can possibly help with getting cask ale to your home bar but be prepared for an avalanche of disapproval.
> 
> What did you want to know?
> 
> Cheers
> Sean


Examples?
I haven't seen any disapproval of them in the beer engine discussions we've had here in the past...
Excluding the exploding cube thing, that wasn't centred around hand pumping, more opinions on what a cube can withstand pressure wise (I have no opinion either way on that subject)


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## Bribie G

When I was in New Zealand a couple of years ago the hand pumped beer I saw in the bars were run off polypins. These are unavailable in Australia but the collapsible water containers make a brilliant substitute.
Similarly to Sp0rk I'm at a loss about "disapproval", quite a few members here have gone to beer engines and hopefully they will chip into this thread.

I love real ales but find that my cornie setup does a fairly faithful job on very low top pressure served at an appropriate temperature.

Edit: Ross at Bacchus Brewing (aka CraftBrewer at the top of the page) uses casks from time to time and has his own personal beer engine. Might pay to give them a ring about what's happening in Brisbane.


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## Jason_brews_beer

S.E said:


> Cask ales and hand pumps are really simple and my favourite beer dispensing method but unfortunately cause a lot of controversy and disapproval here with some of the mainly keg orientated AHB members. I can possibly help with getting cask ale to your home bar but be prepared for an avalanche of disapproval.
> 
> What did you want to know?
> 
> Cheers
> Sean


Cheers Sean, Happy to brew my own. Just wanted to know where to source the equipment. 



sp0rk said:


> A beer engine is your easiest and most expensive option, shipping from the UK will set you back between $80-$150 depending on the seller
> Ebay has some every now and then, but the price has seemed to be climbing as of late
> Otherwise if you know someone who's in the UK or visting there, you can get them to send/bring one back for you
> The cheapest and slightly more involved way is making an engine using a toggle pump from a caravan/RV
> Like this http://byo.com/porter/item/346-build-a-beer-engine-projects
> the Valterra RP800 pump in that project plus a spare piston/seal kit will set you back around $50 shipped from the US on amazon
> A lot of guys on here are using collapsible water containers such as http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/products/Collapsible-Water-Container-20L.aspx?pid=114174&menuFrom=571633#Cross


Thanks sp0rk, Had a look at links. I like the collapsable idea. similar to keykeg. Will def help with keeping it from going stale longer in the stillage. I'll keep it in mind but do want to get traditional pumps.

As it so happens i have a few contacts in a couple breweries in London and they guys at my old job will send stuff over for me too. Also have a friend returning home in the next 2 months as well so will sort something out. They are not small though :unsure: and heavy... She may not want to bring them back (bit of a princess, will have to sweet-talk her!!) haha 

I found an aussie place to get plastic casks in Sydney. Any info on where to get metal ones? Or should i just organise a pallet from the UK...


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## angus_grant

I'd say Sean is talking about his thread dispensing ales from a cube. And not about dispensing ale from casks with a beer engine.


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## S.E

angus_grant said:


> I'd say Sean is talking about his thread dispensing ales from a cube. And not about dispensing ale from casks with a beer engine.


Cubes/casks same principal but I’ve already been hit with pm's of disapproval so will leave the subject for now as I’m off to bed anyway.

Cheers
Sean


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## spog

Try gcspublishing.com/newsletter/homemadebeerengine.pdf
This is a good read with details on how to build your own.
Cheers....spog...


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## Jason_brews_beer

Bribie G said:


> When I was in New Zealand a couple of years ago the hand pumped beer I saw in the bars were run off polypins. These are unavailable in Australia but the collapsible water containers make a brilliant substitute.
> Similarly to Sp0rk I'm at a loss about "disapproval", quite a few members here have gone to beer engines and hopefully they will chip into this thread.
> 
> I love real ales but find that my cornie setup does a fairly faithful job on very low top pressure served at an appropriate temperature.
> 
> Edit: Ross at Bacchus Brewing (aka CraftBrewer at the top of the page) uses casks from time to time and has his own personal beer engine. Might pay to give them a ring about what's happening in Brisbane.


Just been having a look around and will defo be getting a few polypins to serve off a hand pump at home. Great idea for small batch beers too. But still keen on a few casks to take when i go to parties. Tappin a cask looks pretty cool when educating the masses (i.e. my friends...) on real ale. :beerbang:


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## mje1980

It's not as easy as it sounds. S.E above has a plastic pin he bought back from the uk, though he pretty much uses a cube. I'm pretty sure he drinks at least 90% of his beers out of the cube naturally carbonated ( about as real an ale as you can get ).Tapping the cask can be a little messy. They are great for events but if you wanna use it everyday, I believe a hand pump used with a no chill cube would be the easiest, less mucking around option.

Our brew club has a few real ale days a year, and pretty much everyone just uses a no chill cube, and the hand pump gets attached to the tap on the cube, and the lid is cracked. Pretty damn simple, though not as visually impressive


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## wide eyed and legless

I am relatively new to cask conditioned ales, I have 2 beer engines, one sent over from U.K and one I made up from the Valterra Rocket pump as mentioned by spOrk, it pours a treat, nice creamy head and lacing all the way down the glass, my latest one is a Ruby mild which is delicious.
I have asked the question before as to how a non carbonated beer (I only put 2 desert spoons of sugar to 23 litres) can get such a creamy tasting beer and head retention just through pumping a beer through a sparkler, knowing nothing about fluid dynamics I am hoping maybe Sean knows or anyone else who can explain.
Looking forward to what Sean has to say.


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## MHB

If you are prepared to pay for professional equipment, and all top quality beer dispense equipment is reasonably expensive, talk to NNL Brewery Services.
I got my pump and other bits and pieces from them, personally I would rather spend a bit extra up front and get equipment that is guaranteed to work - the pump was factory refurbished, and its nice to be able to get hard and soft spiles, shives and keystones when I need them.
Mark


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## Bribie G

Great to see you back on the forum MHB, will catch up in Newcastle in the next couple of weeks. :super:

Is NNL "Bigfridge" on the forum? He'd be the guy to see for sure.


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## MHB

Yes NNL is Bigfridge, but I think he spends less time on here than I do, I wasn't going to put up his alter ego as too many AHB'ers would start trying to PM rather than go through the website, I don't think he reads PM's any more...(hint)
just went eBay browsing and someone has stainless steel Pins - I want one but best part of $300 - it might have to wait unless anyone knows of or has one they want to sell.
Mark


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## S.E

Jason_brews_beer said:


> Just been having a look around and will defo be getting a few polypins to serve off a hand pump at home. Great idea for small batch beers too. But still keen on a few casks to take when i go to parties. Tappin a cask looks pretty cool when educating the masses (i.e. my friends...) on real ale. :beerbang:


Hi mate

The controversy I was referring to was using cubes as casks not using beer engines/hand pumps. Some AHB members believe the practise is extremely dangerous and should not be encouraged and that a cube used as a cask will explode violently throwing shrapnel and causing serious injury if over primed.

As I have pointed out in the past it is no more dangerous than the common practice of no chilling in a cube and that cubes of wort can and have spontaneously fermented and burst without exploding and causing injury.

By far the easiest and most practical method of serving cask ale at home that I have found is using a cube as a cask.

I have brought purpose made casks (pins and firkins) from the UK to use at home but found that using cubes is easier and better.

I still take the casks to club real ale festivals occasionally and as you say it is pretty cool and fun to tap a cask but we mostly use cubes. Cubes of real ale have become popular with our club members and a few almost always appear along with keg beer at other club gatherings.

Traditional casks are just adapted barrels and were not specifically designed for serving beer. When placed horizontally and taped in the traditional manner the ale needs to be consumed within a few days as it oxidises.

I have found that ale served from my cubes lasts far longer than when served from my casks as the surface area exposed to the air is less than a horizontal cask. My cubes last about 8- 10 days after they have been opened and the beer exposed to the air if I keep them in the fridge.

Cubes like casks are not pressure rated containers and like casks they don’t need to be.

Beer engines/hand pumps are fun to use at home but not necessary. Engines are used in the UK to pump ale from pub cellars located below ground level up to the bar above.

I have never seen a cask of ale served through an engine when the casks are being used and served from above ground and not stored in a cellar.
I have been to many pubs and beer festivals in the UK and the beer has always been served direct from the taps in the casks when they are easily accessible and in plain view never through an engine.

The only practical reason I can think of to use an engine when the cask is close at hand is if it is fitted with a sparkler to promote a creamy head on the beer but I have never actually seen this done at a pub or beer fest. If a creamy head is desired on a beer served directly from a cube or cask this can easily be achieved by using a syringe.

If you do want to use a beer engine at home and do not want to consume the ale quickly you may be better off using collapsible polypins. I don’t like polypins personally as I find them to fragile and fiddly to use and clean also the taps leak easily.

Cheers
Sean


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## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> I am relatively new to cask conditioned ales, I have 2 beer engines, one sent over from U.K and one I made up from the Valterra Rocket pump as mentioned by spOrk, it pours a treat, nice creamy head and lacing all the way down the glass, my latest one is a Ruby mild which is delicious.
> I have asked the question before as to how a non carbonated beer (I only put 2 desert spoons of sugar to 23 litres) can get such a creamy tasting beer and head retention just through pumping a beer through a sparkler, knowing nothing about fluid dynamics I am hoping maybe Sean knows or anyone else who can explain.
> Looking forward to what Sean has to say.


Not exactly sure myself mate. The fine holes in a sparkler force the co2 out off suspension to create the creamy head but the malts and adjuncts used also have an effect.

For instance an Irish stout with a high proportion of rolled barley will form a thicker creamier head through a sparkler than say a single malt pale ale.

I would like to know the exact reason myself.

Using a syringe to suck up and squirt beer back in to the glass a few times will have a similar effect but obviously not as much fun as using an engine and sparkler.


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## gideon

There's also been a move in real ale management in recent times to accept replacing the head space in real ale casks with CO2 rather than air as it prolongs the life of the beer (it doesn't oxidise as quickly). You can buy a check valve- demand valve from cfbsonline.co.uk and connect it in-line to to your CO2 and corny keg so that you can pull real ale from the keg and the valve then maintains the pressure in the keg by replacing the head space with CO2 rather than air. This device doesn't carbonate your beer. This will keep your beer fresher for longer whilst you use the bee engine. I've found cfbs are really helpful and will take time on the phone to talk you through any questions you have. .


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## MartinOC

Hey guys, how about thinking outside of the square? For years, I've been doing real/cask ale in my regular kegs. I remove the dip-tube from the liquid-side & replace the post with BSP hex-nipple. Screw a ball-valve onto the other thread & an elbow to serve downwards.

Just prime them as usual, then lay them in their side with the liquid post downwards. Once the natural condition starts to dissipate, you can just give the keg a shot of gas to retain serving pressure. The kegs themselves are obviously pressure-tolerant, so it's a non-issue. I chock-up the bottom of the keg a bit, so you can get the last little bit out of the tap & any sediment/dry hops are held below tap-level.

I only do this during winter, so I can serve at cellar-temperatures (a 45L keg won't fit laying down in my fridge!!).

Piccies below only show a mock-up of what I do (ie. I didn't actually attach the hex-nipple & ball-valve just to take these photo's).


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## S.E

sp0rk said:


> Examples?
> I haven't seen any disapproval of them in the beer engine discussions we've had here in the past...
> Excluding the exploding cube thing, that wasn't centred around hand pumping, more opinions on what a cube can withstand pressure wise (I have no opinion either way on that subject)


The disapproval I was referring to was not regarding beer engines, engines are nice but expensive and not necessary for serving real ale at home.

The disapproval was aimed at using non pressure rated containers such as cubes and pollypins to carbonate real ale and the fear that they may explode or set off a devastating chain reaction if left near electrical appliances and other such nonsense.

Examples of disapproval and detailed info on how I use cubes as casks can be found here.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/


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## MartinOC

Further to my earlier post, I just remembered that (in my extensive keg collection  ) I also have three 18L kegs modified for real ale & they WILL fit in a fridge!!

Same principle applies. No beer engines, hand-pumps, shives & spiles required & no need to remove the dip-tube.

I've never needed to try it (since I have SOOOOO many kegs h34r: ), but I believe they could also be used as conventional kegs (since the ball-valve would be pressure-tolerant).


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## MHB

If you want a seriously good book on Cask Ale, the CAMRA book Cellarmanship is a very worthwhile read.
Covers most everything you would want to know - if a little (well to coin a phrase) CAMRAesk - I don't think these guys readily embrace modernity or change, but you get a really good idea of why Cask Ale was made the way it was, what the different serving techniques will do to the beer and all that.
Mark


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## O'Henry

Gideon said:


> There's also been a move in real ale management in recent times to accept replacing the head space in real ale casks with CO2 rather than air as it prolongs the life of the beer (it doesn't oxidise as quickly). You can buy a check valve- demand valve from cfbsonline.co.uk and connect it in-line to to your CO2 and corny keg so that you can pull real ale from the keg and the valve then maintains the pressure in the keg by replacing the head space with CO2 rather than air. This device doesn't carbonate your beer. This will keep your beer fresher for longer whilst you use the bee engine. I've found cfbs are really helpful and will take time on the phone to talk you through any questions you have. .


While some people have been using CO2 to replace the head space in casks, this is still regarded by CAMRA as unacceptable practise, as any extraneous CO2 is not allowed. I personally think using CO2 at minimal pressure to minimise beer deterioration is a great thing, and that CAMRA are an organisation stuck in the past. When the hand pump was invented I am sure it wasn't very liked. 'The loss of gravity serving is a crime against good ale!' But it allowed beers to be stored in the cellar were it was cooler and a more consistent temperature. Tradition is great, but so is accepting positive change.


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## wide eyed and legless

If the technology was around to inject CO2 to replace the head space when beer engine's was first used I would imagine it would be endorsed by CAMRA.  
I for one have adapted my cubes so as to inject CO2, unless my brothers come around then I know the cask will be emptied.

I have used the polypin and it worked great except that I could smell rather than taste the plastic, anyone know anyway of getting rid of the plastic smell ?


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Sodium Bi carb is pretty good at sucking up smells, ask any house wife born before 1960's


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## S.E

Gideon said:


> There's also been a move in real ale management in recent times to accept replacing the head space in real ale casks with CO2 rather than air as it prolongs the life of the beer (it doesn't oxidise as quickly). You can buy a check valve- demand valve from cfbsonline.co.uk and connect it in-line to to your CO2 and corny keg so that you can pull real ale from the keg and the valve then maintains the pressure in the keg by replacing the head space with CO2 rather than air. This device doesn't carbonate your beer. This will keep your beer fresher for longer whilst you use the bee engine. I've found cfbs are really helpful and will take time on the phone to talk you through any questions you have. .


Race cask ventilators used rather than spiles also help preserve the beer I was told. If you recall Gideon I use Race ventilators on pins and also cubes at RAF but they are always emptied within a few hours.

At home after pouring the first pints under pressure of natural carbonation I just loosen the cap and re tighten it after I have poured the beer to limit the air.


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## S.E

MHB said:


> If you want a seriously good book on Cask Ale, the CAMRA book Cellarmanship is a very worthwhile read.
> Covers most everything you would want to know - if a little (well to coin a phrase) CAMRAesk - I don't think these guys readily embrace modernity or change, but you get a really good idea of why Cask Ale was made the way it was, what the different serving techniques will do to the beer and all that.
> Mark


That a fantastic book and compulsory read for anyone interested in cask ale also great for anyone interested in brewing in general really. Cellarmanship is an art in itself


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## mje1980

Yeah no problem at the RAF's with oxidation hehe.


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## Bribie G

If I were ever to go into hand pumped beer I'd use a cube and just top up the headspace, after a session, with my "naked" CO2 line that I keep for flushing stuff. After settling down, most of the oxygen in the headspace should be separated from the beer by a layer of CO2.


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## sp0rk

Bribie G said:


> If I were ever to go into hand pumped beer I'd use a cube and just top up the headspace, after a session, with my "naked" CO2 line that I keep for flushing stuff. After settling down, most of the oxygen in the headspace should be separated from the beer by a layer of CO2.


I take it you didn't up getting that awesome little brass pump from Whitworths you were talking about a while ago? (I think it was you talking about it...)


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## dmac80

It's not CAMRA kosher, but I've used a corny keg with a co2 regulator connected to the gas in post set at atmospheric pressure or a touch under when using my 'poor man's hand pump'.

When beer is pumped out of the keg it draws co2 back in through the reg (and non return). The only thing to be wary of is if the reg is set too high it will just push beer out the pump. 

Cheers
Dan

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


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## Bribie G

sp0rk said:


> I take it you didn't up getting that awesome little brass pump from Whitworths you were talking about a while ago? (I think it was you talking about it...)


I got a plastic version from BCF to try out the system with a collapsible water bag, couldn't get a gas tight seal and it was just sucking air. However I'll be trying again during the winter using a cube with CO2 flushing after every session.


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## Bribie G

dmac said:


> It's not CAMRA kosher, but I've used a corny keg with a co2 regulator connected to the gas in post set at atmospheric pressure or a touch under when using my 'poor man's hand pump'.
> 
> When beer is pumped out of the keg it draws co2 back in through the reg (and non return). The only thing to be wary of is if the reg is set too high it will just push beer out the pump.
> 
> Cheers
> Dan
> 
> Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


I've seen exactly the same thing happen in a pub in Dover, Kent, serving Shepherd Neame on handpump. I was in a side bar and could see what was going on at the handpump. They obviously had a cask "breather" thing happening because after pulling the pint, a thin trickle of beer was still coming out, and the barman flicked a little brass lever to stop it.


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## sp0rk

Bribie G said:


> I got a plastic version from BCF to try out the system with a collapsible water bag, couldn't get a gas tight seal and it was just sucking air. However I'll be trying again during the winter using a cube with CO2 flushing after every session.


Let me know how you go, a friend was supposed to be bringing back a couple of beer engines and some poly pins back from from the UK with her but it seems like she's flaked out on the deal 
I'm thinking about doing a couple of milds/bitters/my choc porter soon to have aged and ready to serve from a collapsible water bag and a DIY engine as soon as the weather cools down
I'm experimenting at the moment with trying to find a similar sized lid for the bag that I can fit a threaded fitting to with a ball valve attached instead of just sliding a hose in/over the existing tap and risking leakage


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## wide eyed and legless

Came across this, http://www.abgbrew.com/Cask%20conditioning...pdf


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## S.E

I’ve never been a member of CAMRA but think they are a great organisation who undoubtedly helped reverse the trend towards keg beer and rekindled the interest in cask ale or “real ale” as they call it.

I also think using CO2 at minimal pressure to minimise beer deterioration is a good thing and especially usefully in pubs with a low turnover as they could have more variety on tap.

I was told a story by my Uncle that a group of about 4 guys were drinking in the Farriers Arms in St Albans, Herts ,UK and were having a good old whinge (as you do) about the fact the beer they were drinking had been filtered, force carbonated just didn’t taste as “real” as it used to.

A few tastings later they wobbled home after resolving to form an organisation to combat the growing trend of kegging and destroying good beer.
I’m not sure if the story is true or where my uncle had heard it but we were drinking in the Farriers Arms when he told me it. I’d love to know if it is true.

After a few more tastings of the now fantastic cask ale at the Farriers arms myself and my uncle wobbled home resolving to learn to brew our own all grain “real ale”
.
The following week end we went to the local HB shop and bought the ingredients and equipment to brew. I bought a plastic thermostatically controlled electrim bin kettle/mash tun, a grain bag (or BIAB bag) also a separate hop bag for the hop flowers.

I also bought a pressure barrel to serve from, it was similar to the cubes I use now in many ways. I had intended to use it here in Australia but found they were not used here and I could not get the new seal and tap it needed.

I brewed in a few all grain brews in the UK, but St Albans is a town full of pubs serving excellent cask ale so I didn’t get to brew that much. I went in to town after work most nights and weekends with my mates visiting some of the best cask ale pubs I have found in the country. A lot of the pubs also held Real ale festivals that were attended by CAMRA members but we didn’t really talk or mix with them as we were in our teens and early twenties and they were middle aged.

Returning home after the pub I would often walk past a house on the corner of Oswald Road and Alma Road. It had a hand written sign in the window that said something like CAMRA HQ, The Campaign for Real Ale. They later moved to their present office on Hatfield Road.




From left. Pin with Race cask ventilator, Cube and Plastic UK home brew barrel

Cheers
Sean


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## Jason_brews_beer

Wow!! I did open up a can of worms methinks... :blink: haha

Totally understand the logistics and the why of the beer engine. And why they aren't really needed if you can gravity feed the tap. But... I don't want a syringe hanging around my bar to add head to the beer when the engine will do that and look good to. I guess I'm a bit nostalgic and having spent a good chunk of the last two years in the ol' boozer in Leeds and London I've want to serve my ale the same way cause I like it and think it adds a certain mouthfeel a syringe won't impart. Simple. 

Will defo explore using cubes as a cask Sean, sounds like a good idea. And much more practical to keeping it in the fridge when not having a session. And I'm not too worried about them expanding. they will never explode with extreme amounts of force anyway and i can vent if really required. I like to tinker so would always keep and eye on them. The cask I want is purely for parties and festivals, weddings and anything a f*#k-ton of people will drink at.

CO2 to replace the headspace is something i was already thinking about so good to have that idea confirmed too. And although I want to keep to 'real ale/CAMRA' standards as much as possible things like replacing the headspace with co2 just make sense and i don't see why it shouldn't be used.

:super:


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## Jason_brews_beer

S.E said:


> Not exactly sure myself mate. The fine holes in a sparkler force the co2 out off suspension to create the creamy head but the malts and adjuncts used also have an effect.
> 
> For instance an Irish stout with a high proportion of rolled barley will form a thicker creamier head through a sparkler than say a single malt pale ale.
> 
> I would like to know the exact reason myself.
> 
> Using a syringe to suck up and squirt beer back in to the glass a few times will have a similar effect but obviously not as much fun as using an engine and sparkler.



I think it also has something to do with the pressure a hand-pump can force a beer up the line and into the glass. They foam up quite a bit when pulling the pump and I usually left mine about 30-60sec after pouring so the ultra fine bubbles in the beer can lift to the surface and clear the beer.


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## wide eyed and legless

Have you ever noticed though how the bubbles sink, I don't know if it is the turbulence that causes them to go down the side of the glass instead of up.
Here are some photos of the cubes in the cool room with a knocked up vent / CO2 injector the $50 beer engine with Bunnings sparkler and how to dispense non carbonated beer.
I also do what Bribie was suggesting when transferring to secondary then to cask (cube) I put a blanket of CO2 in the vessel while transferring the beer.
A beautiful ruby mild.
Cheers


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## mxd

wide eyed and legless said:


> Have you ever noticed though how the bubbles sink, I don't know if it is the turbulence that causes them to go down the side of the glass instead of up.
> Here are some photos of the cubes in the cool room with a knocked up vent / CO2 injector the $50 beer engine with Bunnings sparkler and how to dispense non carbonated beer.
> I also do what Bribie was suggesting when transferring to secondary then to cask (cube) I put a blanket of CO2 in the vessel while transferring the beer.
> A beautiful ruby mild.
> Cheers


looks very nice, I keep looking for an beer engine (cheap  ).

hey next time your going to pour a pint if you would like to train me on usage etc.. I would love to try it


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## S.E

Jason_brews_beer said:


> Wow!! I did open up a can of worms methinks... :blink: haha
> 
> Totally understand the logistics and the why of the beer engine. And why they aren't really needed if you can gravity feed the tap. But... I don't want a syringe hanging around my bar to add head to the beer when the engine will do that and look good to. I guess I'm a bit nostalgic and having spent a good chunk of the last two years in the ol' boozer in Leeds and London I've want to serve my ale the same way cause I like it and think it adds a certain mouthfeel a syringe won't impart. Simple.
> 
> Will defo explore using cubes as a cask Sean, sounds like a good idea. And much more practical to keeping it in the fridge when not having a session. And I'm not too worried about them expanding. they will never explode with extreme amounts of force anyway and i can vent if really required. I like to tinker so would always keep and eye on them. The cask I want is purely for parties and festivals, weddings and anything a f*#k-ton of people will drink at.
> 
> CO2 to replace the headspace is something i was already thinking about so good to have that idea confirmed too. And although I want to keep to 'real ale/CAMRA' standards as much as possible things like replacing the headspace with co2 just make sense and i don't see why it shouldn't be used.
> 
> :super:


I didn’t mean a syringe with a needle attached, :huh: Just the plunger and barrel part. Sorry I should have been clearer about that. 

Guinness brought out 6 pack bottles of draft Guinness and supplied a syringe like plunger with each pack a few years before the smooth flow widget was invented.

Hand pumps don’t force a beer up the line and into the glass, they pull the beer up the line the only forcing is from the piston through the swan neck. And through the sparkler if one is fitted.

Cheers
sean


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Bugger, you missed out on the the next pour MXD poured 2 since that last post, don't give up on the English Bitter.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Missed out the cube photo's


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Going to New York and Boston in June and was looking for any beer festivals which may be happening, found this cask beer festival
in New York, you will notice the Valtera rocket pumps mentioned by spOrk which are being used to dispense the beer.
With a sparkler fitted they are as good as a beer engine.
http://blip.tv/beer-nation/get-real-ny-cask-ale-festival-5535788


----------



## Rambo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Bunnings sparkler


What exactly are you using as your sparkler? I thought I saw you post elsewhere (which I can't find anymore) that it was a tap airator. Went to bunnings today and couldn't find any that I thought could be adapted successfully.

Also, what kind of line are you using between the cube and pump? Is this just silicone hose?

Cheers (and thanks for all your previous posts on this subject, you have convinced me its worth the effort)


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The sparkler for my home made hand pump I got from the plumbing section in Bunnings, and yes it was a tap aerator, I used silicone hose and submersed the hose in hot water to expand it and inserted the aerator into the hose (I will probably be going into Bunnings tomorrow I will check out which one I got and let you know) I remember there were 2 aerators in the packet.

I believe it was 10mm hose from the tap on the cube to the hand pump, which hand pump have you got?


----------



## Rambo

Cheers mate, I'll have to get one and give it a go. If you can check though that would be great and will save me some trial and error.

I have the same pump as you I think, the Valterra one from amazon. Can't wait to get it going, brewing a mild tomorrow to christen it.

Thanks again!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The aerator I used was a (Kinetic, brand name) there are 2 aerator's in the packet and I used the large grey one in the chrome housing checked how I had fitted it this morning and is as follows 10 mm tubing at the end of the tube a small piece of 12 mm tube and on to that 16 mm tube the chrome fitting has a threaded end and if you soak the 16 mm tube in the hot water you will be able to force it on to the threaded part of the aerator.
Make sure you have enough tube coming off the end of your pump to reach the bottom of the pint glass and pour from the bottom.


----------



## Rambo

Great, thanks for that. One more question I promise! Where did you get silicone hose at those sizes?


----------



## Beertard

My neighbour was just telling me yesterday the Breakfast creek hotel still serves cask beer http://www.breakfastcreekhotel.com/beer_glorious_beer.html might be worth a visit


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Got the clear silicone hose from Bunnings in the irrigation section. I haven't had a drink for 3 weeks now and I can taste that mild of yours, you are going to be really impressed with your beers, you will only want to drink beer drawn from a pump.


----------



## Rambo

Legend, cheers mate! Almost finished the boil now, the last mild I made tasted better out of the fermenter than the keg so I can't wait for it also. Thanks so much for your help.


----------



## black_labb

I got a handpump instead of a keg setup 18 months ago. The setup ends up cheaper than a keg system and is more versatile. Kegs require difficult sized fridges which isn't always easy to accomodate. The polypin/cubitainers I use are 4.5L and great to use http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=31619&catid=816

I've reused them multiple times and only have had one start to leak a little bit when under pressure (only noticeable as there was a stout coloured liquid found when I lifted it up). That cubitainer was sitting on top of a bottle bomb carbonating before putting it into the fridge. Pretty sturdy for most uses.

It's a pretty easy system and results in great cask ale. The "polypin" system is great as it doesn't impact the beer's shelf life like traditional casks do by letting in oxygen and bacteria. I haven't found any oxygen or age issues in any "polypin" casked ales thoughI haven't had a cask sit around untapped for more than about 2 months (it is refrigerated once carbed). I haven't had any shelf life issues with the beer once tapped but it doesn't usually last more than a week at 4.5L.

I prime the 4.5L polypin with a heaped teaspoon of white sugar and let it carb up under the house where I keep the bottle conditioned bottles. Once they're swollen I'll put them in the beerfridge/cold conditioning fridge which sits at about 10*c. If they seem very swollen I'll let a bit of pressure out as a precaution but it isn't usually a concern.

One of the added bonuses is portability. Rock up to camping or a party simply by unclamping it from the bench top at home and throwing over a kegs worth of beer in a normal esky and hooking it up in 2 minutes at the other end once you find the right place to clamp the pump down. No mucking about with co2, balancing pressure/temperature or finding an esky to carry the tall narrow kegs.





An American IPA settling after pouring, still settling from the pour.



An empty 4.5L polypin as used.


----------



## Bribie G

Beertard said:


> My neighbour was just telling me yesterday the Breakfast creek hotel still serves cask beer http://www.breakfastcreekhotel.com/beer_glorious_beer.html might be worth a visit


It's served from the wooden barrel, but isn't "real ale" in the UK sense. It has been filtered to bright condition then racked into the cask and sent out to the pub to be served by gravity.

So it's different to the UK version where the beer is still fermenting and the yeast then settles to the bottom of the cask and naturally carbonates the beer to provide a slight sparkle on serving.

The Breakfast Creek version of XXXX is just taken off the production line before it gets pasteurised, but is indeed far more tasty and fresher than the keg or bottled version and well worth a session.

This is really how lagers were delivered to bars in Europe, America and Australia before metal kegs were introduced in the 1950s. I've seen wooden casks in use in Austria when I was younger.


----------



## lael

spog said:


> Try gcspublishing.com/newsletter/homemadebeerengine.pdf
> This is a good read with details on how to build your own.
> Cheers....spog...


Link now goes to group builder.... 

Can you repost it / drop box? I'm very interested in trying a hand pump set up.


----------



## sp0rk

Check the BYO link i posted, it's basically the same thing only less pretty


----------



## lael

Thanks, will do. Black lab, can make you post some pica of how the poly pins hook up to the beer pump? Did you order them off the website you linked?


----------



## lael

wide eyed and legless said:


> Came across this, http://www.abgbrew.com/Cask%20conditioning...pdf


Now wants a login


----------



## wide eyed and legless

http://byo.com/stories/item/594-enjoy-the-real-thing-cask-conditioned-ale

Is any good to you lael


----------



## lael

Brilliant! Thanks!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

As black_labb pointed out cask ale is a cheaper way to serve your beer, but it goes beyond the economics, its all about taste, mouth feel and satisfaction. I would encourage anyone to give it a go, there would be no going back from it.
It isn't difficult or expensive to set up, I have a hand pump I shipped in from England and the Valterra pump, which pours just as good as its English counterpart.


----------



## gap

Hello Lael,

Will have to show you my 2 beer engines and how I connect them to kegs.

I have also 2 polypins but have not sorted how I will connect them.

Regards

Graeme


----------



## black_labb

lael said:


> Thanks, will do. Black lab, can make you post some pica of how the poly pins hook up to the beer pump? Did you order them off the website you linked?


I simply push the hose onto the tap nozzle as shown. It is the same size as a "bottling wand" or whatever you want to call it and the usual home brewing racking tubes fit over it perfectly. I did order it through that link. Americans don't know how to ship things here at a reasonable price but I got 18 for the price of a corny shipped here though I got the wrong size tap spigot (fixed with a few from supercheap auto).




wide eyed and legless said:


> As black_labb pointed out cask ale is a cheaper way to serve your beer, but it goes beyond the economics, its all about taste, mouth feel and satisfaction. I would encourage anyone to give it a go, there would be no going back from it.
> It isn't difficult or expensive to set up, I have a hand pump I shipped in from England and the Valterra pump, which pours just as good as its English counterpart.



I went into this a bit but deleted the post and omitted it from the retype.

Kegged beer is very much the same as bottled beer but casked beer really is unique and brings out the flavours differently to keg/bottled beers. 
With a handpump I usually everyday beers (bitters, milds, pales and other ales are everyday beers for me) on the handpump and bottle beers that I won't drink as regularly (stronger ones, belgians, beers that age or something I just want occasionally). 

It's a great system and works out well for me.


----------



## lael

- I got the wrong size tap spigot (fixed with a few from supercheap auto).

Sounds awesome. Do you know which size is the correct one to buy?


----------



## black_labb

your looking for the smaller diameter spigot in the photo here. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24469

Not sure where to get them aside from supercheap, but I didn't see them on the website.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

People in Plastic in Melbourne and I think Sydney or Perth have the caps with the tap fitted in them, ideal for releasing any excess pressure from the cube or squirting in a bit of co 2 .


----------



## catcher

Keen as mustard to make real ales


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Just use a cube as a cask.


----------



## catcher

So have spent plenty of time considering options and I think Cask Ale and Beer Engines is the road my brewery will follow


----------



## S.E

catcher said:


> So have spent plenty of time considering options and I think Cask Ale and Beer Engines is the road my brewery will follow


As wide eyed and legless suggested cubes are great as real ale casks. They can be used without modification or fitted with a valve to top up co2. A bit of vaseline or keg lube in the tap is all it takes to seal it and stop it dripping under pressure.

Some info and pictures in this thread. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70056-carbingconditioning-in-a-cube-before-keg/


----------



## catcher

Yeah sweet thanks for the tips. The ball is in motion  I am chasing the gear to build beer engines then I'll get my keezer setup to maintain cellar temp. Getting pumped


----------



## Rambo

Finally got everything together and the hand pump is working. Gotta say I'm impressed with how well it works.

Because of low stocks at the bunnings I went to I ended up putting it together slightly differently to the method Wide Eyed and Legless helped me out with (thanks again, I raised a glass to you on my first pint).

From the end of spout I added a bit of this. I used this aerator which slipped inside a 13mm vinly connector with a bit of help with hot water which then went over the silicon tube. 10mm vinyl tube goes from the bottom of the pump to a keg via a MFL disconnect without the JG female adapter.

Thanks everyone for their help and sharing this great idea.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Looks good Rambo, I hope a lot more AHB members follow suit in enjoying cask ale.


----------



## aaronpetersen

I currently have a couple of polypins that I picked up the last time I was in the UK and have been using them for gravity pouring of my real ales. I'm seriously considering taking the next step and connecting them to one of the Valtera pumps. The only thing stopping me is this comment from here: http://byo.com/stories/item/594-enjoy-the-real-thing-cask-conditioned-ale "Hand pulling beer is inconvenient for one or two glasses of beer. It’s best to use a beer engine when you have a decent number of beer lovers around, to make the effort worthwhile."
Do those of you that use pumps consider that statement to be true?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You can use a hand pump whenever you like, if you don't drink so much when you transfer into a cask get a small cask and leave the rest of the beer in a primary or secondary, if you have a CO2 bottle you can always blanket the air space with CO2.
Always give anything a try, and adapt to suit your needs, I am sure you would be happy with the end result.

Cask-conditioned ale is unique. Particularly when hand pulled by a beer engine, it is smooth, creamy, and often more complex than its contemporary, fully carbonated counterparts. Because the beer is alive with yeast and is fermenting, many unique flavor and aroma compounds are produced in cask ale that are absent in anything pasteurized or filtered.

The above paragraph would be enough to convince me.


----------



## aaronpetersen

Thanks Wide eyed, but I don't think you completely understand my set-up. My beer is already in casks (polypins). The polypins collapse as beer is drawn from them so there is no air entering the cask and therefore no need to worry about oxidation. I just want to change from gravity poured to hand-pumped, so I can get that nice smooth and creamy mouthfeel.
What is the reason that hand-pumping isn't worthwhile for only a couple of glasses?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You have answered your own question there Aaron it is the oxidisation that some people would worry about if not emptying the cask within a week to 10 days, you will not have a problem with your polypins, air will not be venting into them they will just be collapsing, same if you used a collapsible water container.
It would be no different if you felt like just a couple of glasses of beer from the pump or from a gravity feed, it doesn't cost a lot to set something up with the Valtera give it a go.


----------



## aaronpetersen

Awesome! Thanks wide eyed. I'm gonna give this a crack.


----------



## catcher

Where did you buy your hand pump and how much? Just the pump itself 

Also the poly pins?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Hi catcher, the cheapest place I found for the Valtera pump is from Amazon in the USA, I was going there for a holiday this year but had to cancel, I had in mind to bring a few back with me to sell to members of AHB (at cost) as shipping adds a fair bit to it but it should come in under $50.
The polypins can be substituted with a decent collapsible plastic water container from eBay, a camping store or just on line but best to go for quality, they are still cheap. 

http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-RP800-Chrome-Rocket-Hand/dp/B000BGM2XG

The free delivery they advertise is US only.


----------



## Tahoose

Hmm next project to go along with my new renewed interest in English ales... 

Those Valtera pumps look good


----------



## aaronpetersen

Anyone keen to share shipping costs on a couple of Valtera pumps?


----------



## aaronpetersen

Ignore that previous post. Shipping is only $9 so I'm just gonna buy one myself.


----------



## mje1980

Let me know which site you buy from. I love hand pumped ales, but a real engine is quite pricey.


----------



## crowmanz

After reading this thread over and over I finally started putting together a "cask" to try out real ale. It is basically as wide eyed and legless suggested, a 10L cube with a john guest bulkhead connector on top to let in a blanket of co2, gravity fed out the standard tap (with cheap bunnings aerator) for now, if all goes well I'll order a valtera hand pump.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

What ever it is that happens to the ale happens when it is pumped through the aerator I don't think it would be the same gravity fed through the aerator, SE has suggested before on one of the cask threads, may even be this one, if you get a large syringe (no needle) draw the ale into the syringe and force it back into the glass it gives a similar effect to the pump but it is the aerator which makes the bubbles act strangely the fine bubbles go down, a bit like pouring a can of Guinness.
I would like to know why this happens but cannot find any explanation.


----------



## crowmanz

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't think it would be the same gravity fed through the aerator


yup two hands squeezing either side of the cube should give it enough push if gravity doesn't work through the aerator 

ill probably end up getting the hand pump but wanted to try how the cube went first


----------



## dago001

mje1980 said:


> Let me know which site you buy from. I love hand pumped ales, but a real engine is quite pricey.


Yeah, mine cost me $9500, but included a free 3 week trip to the UK for me and Mrs LB. Well worth the money.


----------



## dago001

The aerator/sparkler is an interesting proposition. While in the UK, we tried many beers, some with sparkler/some without. Me, I prefer mine without, but I do have a sparkler on my Engine.
In some pubs it was noticeable that for some of their regulars they would remove the sparkler, then put it back on. Have any of you Valtera pump blokes/ladies tried it with out the aerator. You can still get a nice creamy head with an Engine without the sparkler. Thoughts seem to be that the sparkler removes some of the flavour out of the beer. I kind of agree with this.
Damn, this beer engine talk. Looks like I will be putting a Brown Ale on the Engine for tonight (no dry July for me).
Cheers
LB


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> What ever it is that happens to the ale happens when it is pumped through the aerator I don't think it would be the same gravity fed through the aerator, SE has suggested before on one of the cask threads, may even be this one, if you get a large syringe (no needle) draw the ale into the syringe and force it back into the glass it gives a similar effect to the pump but it is the aerator which makes the bubbles act strangely the fine bubbles go down, a bit like pouring a can of Guinness.
> I would like to know why this happens but cannot find any explanation.


Yep a syringe works really quite well. Guinness brought out bottled draught Guinness in Ireland years ago and supplied a syringe with the six pack but stopped selling them after the draught widget was invented for cans.

I have a Hi-Gene beer engine but don’t often use it at home as I find gravity dispense from a cube and using a syringe easy and convenient.

Having said that the main reason I haven’t got around to setting up the engine properly and using it is I personally prefer most of my beers especially hoppy ones gravity fed and not pumped through a sparkler. I tend to only use the engine and sparkler for Irish stout at home.

It should be noted that sparklers for beer engines come with a variety of hole sizes and the smaller the holes the tighter and creamier the beer head will be. I had a cube of Irish stout last week so tried the syringe first it was ok but not tight enough. I set up the engine but was surprised it wasn’t any better. I changed the sparkler for a finer one and got an almost perfect nitrogen like creamy head.

Here is a wiki link that gives some info on how sparklers work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_engine

Cheers Sean


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Sparklers is a North South thing, I believe it was noted in the South of England the beer could often have bits of hop floating around in the beer, I don't think a sparkler was ever used as a filter but I would imagine that if one got used to drinking a beer without a sparkler and went up north and drank a beer with a sparkler a difference would be noted.And visa versa.

http://www.aswiftone.com/2010/10/why-all-fuss-about-sparklers.html


----------



## mje1980

With or without, they still taste a million times better than out of an icy cold keg .


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

Great info guys. I think I am going to put one of these together.

I will probably use the Cubitainers from USP as a ploypin and get a few different sizes.

Looking at the Valtera pump it seems to have quite a few people complaining about leaks and general faults. Have any of you experienced this?
I might look into a different pump.

Are any of you using these for other styles than English/dark beers? I wonder what the hoppy american styles taste like though on of these. Obviously you can not carb them to the level we are used to with them.


----------



## mje1980

I saw those reviews as well. Was keen afew months ago but those reviews kind of put me off too.


----------



## sp0rk

Notice the vast majority of those reviews are pretty old, I believe Valterra have corrected the design since


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

You are right. Seems all the recent reviews are pretty good.

Sold!!!


----------



## mje1980

Hmmm me too


----------



## sp0rk

When I order mine, I'll be grabbing a spare seal kit, mostly so I don't have to order one a year or 2 down the track if/when they wear out


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

I just ordered mine and got the spare seal kit and tubing recommended. I probably did not need the tubing but at least I know it will fit and it was $10.

My order cam to $65 including everything and shipping.

Also ordered the polypins from USP..... not sure how the shipping is going to work as there was no international option. They have not charged me yet, guess I will have to wait and find out.

(productive day at work )


----------



## dago001

I know that this isnt really much help, but I looked into the Valtera pump set up when I was thinking about getting a beer engine. Im pretty handy with tools etc, have access to a full metalwork workshop, but I decided to go the route of a genuine beer engine.
Given the choice again, I wouldnt hesitate to buy another one. I understand that cost is a factor, but for me, I would rather put my money towards the genuine article.
You wont regret it if you can find a way to get one.
Cheers
LB


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have both LB, a beer engine from the UK and the Valtera the only difference I have found is the beer engine is less pulls, I have put a link in this thread where one guy crudely used 2 Valtera pumps and used linkage so they both worked of one handle, a project I would still like to do. A plus for the Valtera is its mobility going to a BBQ is no problem for taking a valtera set up with you.
Another plus is it is a good way for the uninitiated to give cask beer a go before committing to a major outlay.
It is pleasing to see so many wanting to give it a go, I have often thought why would we go to so much trouble to make a real beer then force carb it and serve it at a ridiculously low temperature.


----------



## dago001

Yep, I agree there WEaL. I suppose I was lucky in the fact my engine cost me a pint and a tenner while I was in York. The point I was making is that if you can afford an Engine, go for it, if not the Valtera is a great option. I had experimented with the syringe method which got me started with real ales. Our trip to the UK only confirmed what I already knew.
The one big difference is the WOW factor. I generally dont go for that but this one is different.
I am thinking of taking the Engine camping this summer, got to easier than carting kegs and gas around, so maybe I might still go with a Valtera pump setup for camping.
Cheers
LB


----------



## lael

What's the difference in cost?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Hi lael,
Relaxed Brewer got his Valtera pump with spare seal and hose inc shipping for around $60, even if you bought a reconditioned beer engine from the UK on eBay, the shipping is the killer they are big heavy units, Grain and Grape sell them see link

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/search?search=beer+engine

So you can see there is a massive difference in costs.


----------



## Danwood

I'm going to get Dad to ask at a few pubs back home in Lancs. Maybe there are one or two engines in cellars which are unwanted...hopefully !

I used to work in two pubs and he's been practically part of the decor in 5 or so over the past 30 years, so I've a chance.

I had a really good hand-pulled pint of Holgate UXB the other day and it's got me thinking.

I'm designing a 2-3 perlick tap font keezer atm...and in my head, it's now got a beer engine sprouting from it.


----------



## Tahoose

haha danwood, I've had similar thoughts, but seeing as I just made my keezer a couple of months ago I think a small fridge for the hand pump might be the go... Seeing as I'll want a different temp anyway.

I shouldn't have these thoughts, it will get me into trouble..

I might just have a contact who could get me a beer engine.


----------



## Danwood

The temp. thing may be an issue, but I often brew UK beers and don't mind a slightly warmer serving of hoppy American styles.
Plus, I've never brewed a lager and have no future plans to. I don't like the pilsner malt /DMS/corn thing mainly.

So, keezer with a horn it is !


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

Just got a quote from UPS for the a bunch of different sized polypins and they wanted $150 for shipping. How much was the shipping for others?

I might have to look into getting collapsable water bags from somewhere else.


----------



## bricho

Your all a bunch of bad influences, i just bought myself one of these pumps for abit of fun while i try track down a real engine.

For the water bags, i found the below on ebay and thought i would give them a shot. $29 for 6 5L containers. Shipped from VIC, Hoppers Crossing. 1 set of 6 left for anyone?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271549189261&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:AU:3160

Is Napisan ok to use to get rid of any plastic smell?

Any recommendations for a good real ale recipe.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You know that old adage. 'From a little bit of bad comes something good'

On Line Brewing supplies suggested Sodium Bi Carb in an earlier post to get rid of the plastic smell.


----------



## bricho

Looks like water bags i posted are all gone.


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

haha.. I had just found them as well. I ordered a set too. Not sure about the tap size as they did not give it in the description so they might need to be replaced.
I think I might try some 10L ones from china as well.

I think Bicarb or citric acid is better than napisan for removing smells.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Collapse able jerry cans.

http://www.theplasticman.com.au/default/products.html/64/100/Bottles,-Drums-&-Jerry-Cans/Jerry-Cans


----------



## billygoat

Just to whet appetites, here is a photo of my EIPA, based on Worthingtons White Shield, pulled freshly from the hand pump.


----------



## coopsomulous

I think i have found my next project as my favourite craft beers so far have been from a hand pump


----------



## shaunous

U guys using these collapsible water containers as one use only, or u fukin around trying to clean after every brew?


----------



## Rambo

They wouldn't be any different to cleaning a cube. Fill with nappysan, leave 24 hours, rinse, starsan. I'm using a keg for now though, and just topping up with CO2 after evey session.


----------



## Rambo

AaronP said:


> I currently have a couple of polypins that I picked up the last time I was in the UK and have been using them for gravity pouring of my real ales. I'm seriously considering taking the next step and connecting them to one of the Valtera pumps. The only thing stopping me is this comment from here: http://byo.com/stories/item/594-enjoy-the-real-thing-cask-conditioned-ale "Hand pulling beer is inconvenient for one or two glasses of beer. It’s best to use a beer engine when you have a decent number of beer lovers around, to make the effort worthwhile."
> Do those of you that use pumps consider that statement to be true?


Been thinking about this, and I think the opposite is true. Since there is a bit of beer line sitting outside the fridge (and I think the pump holds a bit of beer in it as well), it would be better to be regularly using it rather than just once in a while. It takes a little more effort to top up the CO2 (if thats the path you take), but its worth it.


----------



## Grott

S.E said:


> Yep a syringe works really quite well. Guinness brought out bottled draught Guinness in Ireland years ago and supplied a syringe with the six pack but stopped selling them after the draught widget was invented for cans.Cheers Sean


I am surprised, tried the syringe method on a milk stout and it is quite effective. Need to work proportion of stout to air a bit better but very interesting.


----------



## Grott

Now I did this by attaching the marinade needle, submerging it to near the bottom and giving a quick squirt of stout and air. Lot better.
Cheers


----------



## RelaxedBrewer

So all my bits of gear arrived and I put it together the other day. I could not find the right size taps anywhere (I tried quite a few places). I ended up stretching the hose end to fit on the larger taps. Not ideal but works for the moment.

I got it working and tried it out by putting a couple of bottles into a polypin. 




Pretty happy with how it has turned out. The 5L polypins fit nicely under the mini half barrel. The setup is really portable as well. Music festivals and camping is going to rock with this baby.

I have my first polypin conditioning in the laundry at the moment. It is a IIPA, not really what I indented the pump for, but what I had ready to bottle. I have a stout ready to bottle this weekend. Excited


----------



## Rambo

To fit the aerator on my tube, I used a 13mm vinyl tube joiner. You can get them in the irrigation section of bunnings and cost about $1.30. The aerator fits in this with a little help from hot water, and then this goes over the silicon tube.


----------



## catcher

Ordered two taps and half a dozen collapsible 5L containers so see how it all goes in a few weeks when it arrives.


----------



## bricho

Had the day off today and finished up my hand pump, just need to find some clamps to make it mobile, screwed to the bar at the moment.

Did a side by side test with a stout and it is so creamy and light through the pump, compared to the bottle. The flavours seems to rely mellow out and blend alot nicer as well.
Will be racking a English Bitter to my 5L water [SIZE=11pt]collapsible[/SIZE] containers tomorrow, cant wait to try them.


----------



## catcher

Top job Bricho


----------



## crowmanz

My hand pump showed up today...I'll have to put something together this weekend


----------



## catcher

crowmanz said:


> My hand pump showed up today...I'll have to put something together this weekend


Mine arrived today also, time to get cracking


----------



## wide eyed and legless

bricho the head on your beer seems pretty big, had you already carbonated the beer you used ? Also your hose doesn't seem long enough for you to be able to pour from the bottom.


----------



## bricho

yeah that was a stout i had bottled and carbed at about 5.5 grams a litre, i just poured a couple of long necks into a jug, couldnt wait to test it. Still so much lighter and smoother after going through the pump.
I may have to extended the hose if i keep using those glasses, is it best to be pouring from the bottom of the glass?

I have a non carbed ESB style beer to test soon.


----------



## Danwood

Always from the bottom, or you'll always get a half pint head.

You'll be fine once you add the suggested extension. Obviously, make it long enough to reach the bottom of your tallest glasses (that one↑, I assume).

And that carbonation is probably a bit high. Knock some out if you do the same thing again, otherwise try 3-4g next brew.

Looking good though, mate.


----------



## Jase

I love my hand pump. Without doubt, my favourite thing I owned brewing-wise.

That's all I wanted to say!

Cheers,
Jase


----------



## Crouch

Not sure what I was originally looking at to find my way to this thread but I have to say there are some great suggestions here. I was looking at engines around a year ago and just couldn't cope with the costs, but now, lets just say there are some pumps on the way from amazon and I'm excited to put some beer through them soon.

Cheers


----------



## Tahoose

Sounds great just make sure you chuck up some pics once it's all rigged up. 

Just about to tuck into a fullers a ESB.. (When it warms up a little)


----------



## Crouch

Also forgot to ask where people have bought those cute little half barrels from? 

Cheers


----------



## Tahoose

I haven't bought one myself, but I have seen them at my local home Timber and hardware


----------



## Rambo

Crouch said:


> Also forgot to ask where people have bought those cute little half barrels from?
> 
> Cheers


Got mine from bunnings... Outside in the plant section.


----------



## Crouch

Rambo said:


> Got mine from bunnings... Outside in the plant section.


Thanks Rambo ... heading there a little later today for something else, so will have a look.

Cheers


----------



## Tahoose

So I've found myself on this thread again. This got pushed back so far on the to-do list that I completely forgot about it. 

Seeing as winter proper will be here soon, I'm vowing to to give this a crack. That and I have a spare keg! 

Stay tuned.


----------



## MartinOC

Is your setup likely to be portable? Will you rig-up something that will connect directly to standard ball-lock keg connections?

I've been thinking about putting-on a few 45L casks of Real Ale for the Case Swap/Bummock & was just planning on laying the kegs on their side & using natural carbonation to serve them (then gently topping-up serving pressure from my gas bottle as pressure is released from the anticipated "extensive" drinkage-action!).

I used to do this years ago with a few extra bits & pieces & a ball-valve as the tap, but if you've got a portable hand-pump, maybe we could pool resources & get something else happening? Just thinking outside the square.....


----------



## Tahoose

I wasn't thinking so at first but I'll try and come up with a way to make it so.

I'll make it to suit ball lock setups. I'm going to use one of those valterra pumps. 

Ideas in progress for now, but I've bought the pump so that's a start.


----------



## Tahoose

Right, finally setup now although the tube/airater setup might get tweaked.

Out side is some mdf screwed onto a pine frame and spray painted.




About 5 mins after pouring an English Bitter.



Cube lid modification, weldless ball lock gas post. Now I can pull a few pints and just top up the co2 headspace when needed. The reg doesn't get set any higher than 3psi and I don't leave it connected.




The head wasn't as dense as I was after but still pretty happy with it.


----------



## crowmanz

Nice setup mate. Just watched Michael Jacksons Beer Hunter episode "Best of British" and keen to pull out my hand pump again.


----------



## crowmanz

Found some pics from when I last used it on St Paddy's. The stand is the right height for a tallie.


----------



## shaunous

U pullin the beer from the bottom of the container Tahoose? Where the tap normally would be?


----------



## Tahoose

Yeah the hose is connected to the tap.


----------



## Midnight Brew

What was the price you fellas paid for the Valterra pump?


----------



## Midnight Brew

Midnight Brew said:


> What was the price you fellas paid for the Valterra pump?


Thinking of buying one. The cheapest I can find is $50 including postage and exchange rate through amazon from the US.

Anyone know anywhere else?

If others in Melbourne are interested and these are the cheapest I might order a few.


----------



## Judanero

This thread has me pumped (boom-tis) for the kegerator upgrade!

I kind of hope I don't win the beer engine on ebay now, those velterra setups look nice and compact (and better on the bank balance),and that re-purposed DVD/CD stand is the ducks,


----------



## Midnight Brew

So I finally tapped a 5L collapsible cube to try her out. A picture is worth 1000 words.




Also having a leak from this point. Anyone else come across this?





What have you guys got for line length between your 'cask' and the engine. Mine is about 1.5m and it takes about 10-15 pulls for a pint. How many pumps does it take you fellas?


----------



## MartinOC

:icon_offtopic: it takes about 10-15 pulls for a pint. How many pumps does it take you fellas?
Let the earthy British humour ensue....F'nur..F'nur....


----------



## Mardoo

Depends on the birds at the bar, really. 

There you go MartinOC


----------



## MartinOC

:icon_offtopic: Sharon & Tracy dancing around their handbags? Hmm...

https://youtu.be/KYjbeOsZcY4

"..and the beer tastes like piss...."


----------



## Tahoose

Hey all, back from a long break. Did try and procure a beer engine on the cheap whilst in the UK but didn't have much luck. Had a chat with a head brewer at a local brewery and got to tap a cask at a real ale pub though.


----------



## spog

Tahoose said:


> Hey all, back from a long break. Did try and procure a beer engine on the cheap whilst in the UK but didn't have much luck. Had a chat with a head brewer at a local brewery and got to tap a cask at a real ale pub though.



Tried to snaffle a beer engine when I was in Pomgolia myself with the same result as you,cagey bunch. 

In your absence you haven't missed a whole heck of a lot....unless you are considering doing electrical wiring, it's.......


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Midnight Brew said:


> So I finally tapped a 5L collapsible cube to try her out. A picture is worth 1000 words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_2968.JPG
> 
> Also having a leak from this point. Anyone else come across this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_2969.JPG
> 
> 
> What have you guys got for line length between your 'cask' and the engine. Mine is about 1.5m and it takes about 10-15 pulls for a pint. How many pumps does it take you fellas?


It does take 10 to 15 pulls but there is a way around this, I have posted this before in a similar thread using 2 valterra pumps.
Here is the link.
http://www.gcspublishing.com/newsletter/Homemadebeerengine.pdf


----------



## welly2

So got my beer engine set up - just bolted to a freebie bedside table, but works a treat.




Ordered a couple of 10L collapsible water containers from Supercheap Auto.






I filled one tonight with my English bitter and the rest I decided to bottle as there wasn't quite enough to go into a keg. Well, there was but for the sake of kegging 7L of beer, thought I might as well bottle it.

Filled the polypin/collapsible water container up to the brim, squashed it down a bit to get all the excess air out and I think it's pretty much good to go. I've stuck it in my fermenting fridge which is sitting about 17c - I'm currently fermenting an IPA. I think I'll condition it for a week - will drop the temperature of my fermenting fridge down to about 14c after the IPA has fermented a bit longer - and then hook it up and have a taste. Ideally it'd be a couple of degrees colder but what can you do. I've got beer to ferment. The idea of two small fridges rather than the one tall fridge is becoming more and more appealing as time goes on.

Possibly might have to have a sneaky taste this weekend though. Because, well, you've got to really. 

Got a proper northern neck on my beer engine and will be dispensing the beer WITH sparkler. Because I'm not a shandy drinking southern fairy.


----------



## Tahoose

Been working my way through the Cellarmanship book, just read about a simcup beer pump, basically a small beer engine that attaches to the cask. 

The thing looks awesome, shame it seems like they were phased out in the 60's or 70's..


----------



## Tahoose

Here's one that was previously on sale in the uk.

http://www.m.ebay.ie/itm/Simcup-beer-pump/191673696247


----------



## Bribie G

Looks great Welly. A small cheap bar fridge would be the way to go.
Watch out for that Diacetyl h34r:


----------



## Bribie G

Tahoose said:


> Been working my way through the Cellarmanship book, just read about a simcup beer pump, basically a small beer engine that attaches to the cask.
> 
> The thing looks awesome, shame it seems like they were phased out in the 60's or 70's..


I've seen those in use in a pub in Cornwall back in about 75, it was right on the waterfront and didn't have a cellar so the beer was served straight from the casks that sat on stillages behind the bar.
Thanks for unearthing what they actually were, a lot of people have thought I was making the whole thing up.


----------



## Alex.Tas

welly2 said:


> Because I'm not a shandy drinking southern fairy.


F*&^%ing Northern monkey


----------



## Blind Dog

welly2 said:


> Got a proper northern neck on my beer engine and will be dispensing the beer WITH sparkler. Because I'm a daft northerner with ferret down trousers, too dumb to realise it's just a way to ruin perfectly good beer


FTFY


----------



## Tahoose

Bribie G said:


> I've seen those in use in a pub in Cornwall back in about 75, it was right on the waterfront and didn't have a cellar so the beer was served straight from the casks that sat on stillages behind the bar.
> Thanks for unearthing what they actually were, a lot of people have thought I was making the whole thing up.


I really want to find one, or at best find some drawings of how they work and who actually made them.

I reckon these would be great fo brew club, real ale type events.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I can't understand why it had such a small nozzle on the pump, assuming that is the nozzle, and what sort of pour would it be?


----------



## welly2

Bribie G said:


> Looks great Welly. A small cheap bar fridge would be the way to go.
> Watch out for that Diacetyl h34r:


Yeah, this is all pretty experimental at the moment so anything could happen. :unsure: :wacko: But so far, so good. I've not even tasted the beer. Decided to hold off having an early sample. I'll wait a week. No point in jumping the gun.


----------



## Tahoose

wide eyed and legless said:


> I can't understand why it had such a small nozzle on the pump, assuming that is the nozzle, and what sort of pour would it be?


I'll have to check the book which won't be until Monday, but I think it was a crimped end, which made it simular to a sparkler and produced more of a tight head. 

I'll try an chase it up.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I don't think I would be rushing out to buy one, you know yourself what a difference a hand pump makes to the beer, but I am really curious as to the why's and wherefores that it would be popular as against a straight tap pour from the cask. They must have been designed for a reason.
I wonder if this is its successor.
http://kegking.com.au/keg-couplers-and-keg-disconnects/portable-keg-dispensing/deluxe-party-pump-kit-picnic-pump.html


----------



## Bribie G

wide eyed and legless said:


> I can't understand why it had such a small nozzle on the pump, assuming that is the nozzle, and what sort of pour would it be?


Having grown my beer gland in the UK, there's a big difference between beer served in a pub through a beer engine and served by gravity from the cask.

Pubs serving straight out of the cask were, and are, in a minority. Perfect example that I remember, when I lived in Cardiff, Brains Beers were served through a tight sparkler and had a creamy head with a fairly flat beer underneath. Perfect quaffing pint, like mother's milk. 
When CAMRA arose in the early 1970s my local started to put on casks of Brains SA (despite the fact that SA was being also dispensed through hand pump) for the equivalent of hipsters back then. I can still taste it, fizzy and without much of a head, rather nice in its own way but nothing like the SA being served at the bar through the beer engines.

I'd guess the cask pump would deliver the equivalent pour to the beer-engine version that the locals would be accustomed to and no doubt with a good tight head.

edit; in circumstances where counter mounted beer engines were not available, or impracticable, such as in a restaurant or a sports meeting.


----------



## Bribie G

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't think I would be rushing out to buy one, you know yourself what a difference a hand pump makes to the beer, but I am really curious as to the why's and wherefores that it would be popular as against a straight tap pour from the cask. They must have been designed for a reason.
> I wonder if this is its successor.
> http://kegking.com.au/keg-couplers-and-keg-disconnects/portable-keg-dispensing/deluxe-party-pump-kit-picnic-pump.html


More than likely, but I attended a few student parties in the UK where an air pressure pump just like the picnic pump was in use. Usually dispensing some abomination like William Youngers Tartan keg. :icon_vomit:


----------



## wide eyed and legless

After the initial shock of cellar temp beer, I really came to enjoy it though it seemed flat the head would follow the liquor right down to the bottom and it was so easy to drink, its the gas that fucks a good beer


----------



## Robbo2234

Aldi this week 20 liter collapsible water containers! 3 bucks if I remember.


----------



## Tahoose

I think the simcup gives establishments that aren't set up with a decent cellar a way to have a cask behind the bar every now and then.

Simulating a hand pump and its benefits with out the capital outlay. Obviously they weren't the best option otherwise I'm sure we still see them kicking around pubs.

I blame the mega brewers.


----------



## welly2

Just checked on my polypin. It's been in the fermenting fridge since Thursday and I can see little bubbles of carbonation forming at the top of the pin. It looks like it might actually be working! I'll be tapping it next weekend I think.


----------



## billygoat

Tahoose said:


> I really want to find one, or at best find some drawings of how they work and who actually made them.
> 
> I reckon these would be great fo brew club, real ale type events.


Is it one of these?


----------



## Bribie G

That's the beast.


----------



## Mardoo

That is such a piece of sweet jesus! I may have a new obsession. Why do I love stuff like that?


----------



## LorriSanga

In regards to the Aldi water containers, do you think there is any chance of these busting during conditioning?


----------



## S.E

Tahoose said:


> I think the simcup gives establishments that aren't set up with a decent cellar a way to have a cask behind the bar every now and then.
> 
> Simulating a hand pump and its benefits with out the capital outlay. Obviously they weren't the best option otherwise I'm sure we still see them kicking around pubs.
> 
> I blame the mega brewers.


I have a Simcup pump. I posted a picture of it, post #46 in the Polypins thread in response to Bribie G’s post #45 and “little old Hobbit pubs” comment. I could never understand why anyone would bother attaching a pump to a cask rather than just a tap and gravity dispense till I it occurred to me that with a Simcup a cask could be left on the floor or wherever if there was no room for it on the bar or somewhere the barman could get a glass under the tap. However after a little more thought I guess it would be easier to put it on higher stillage rather than have to bend down to pour every pint.

My bar mounted beer engine with its sparkler fitted will give a tight creamy head that gravity doesn’t but if I use it without the sparkler it makes very little difference to the head over gravity dispense. Or at least I don’t think enough difference to make it worthwhile bothering. When gravity dispensing if you start with the glass close to the tap then drop it down lower during the pour it will agitate the beer and form a head just like pumping into the glass without a sparkler.

Though a bar mounted engine without a sparkler will not improve the head enough to warrant using one for that purpose alone I can’t see what other reason the Simcup could have been used for. The Simcup doesn’t have a sparkler so won’t give a really tight thick creamy head but does pump a finer and stronger jet of beer into the glass so will give a better head than a bar mounted engine without a sparkler fitted.

I don’t know why the Simcup pump is obsolete now but when I tested mine with a firkin half full of water it was difficult to pull a pint without the cask sliding about on the stillage. I would guess one reason they are no longer used is a modern SS cask is too smooth and light so will slide around stirring up the yeast. I have only seen pictures of them used with wooden casks.


----------



## S.E

LorriSanga said:


> In regards to the Aldi water containers, do you think there is any chance of these busting during conditioning?


[SIZE=11pt]They are a bit fragile and fiddly. The advantage of using them over a ridged cube is they collapse as you pour so don’t need to be continuously topped up with co2. I have been using one filled with co2 instead and attaching it to a cube so I get the best of both worlds. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]
[/SIZE]


----------



## welly2

S.E said:


> [SIZE=11pt]They are a bit fragile and fiddly. The advantage of using them over a ridged cube is they collapse as you pour so don’t need to be continuously topped up with co2. I have been using one filled with co2 instead and attaching it to a cube so I get the best of both worlds. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=11pt]
> 
> 
> 
> 20151126_190339.jpg [/SIZE]


Bloody clever set up there. I'll progress to that system in time. At the moment the water container seems to be holding its own. I'm gasping to try it out! This weekend for sure.


----------



## Bribie G

I didn't spot them in the catalogues, I'll be in Casino and Lismore tomorrow so will give both Aldis a flogging.


----------



## LorriSanga

S.E said:


> [SIZE=11pt]They are a bit fragile and fiddly. The advantage of using them over a ridged cube is they collapse as you pour so don’t need to be continuously topped up with co2. I have been using one filled with co2 instead and attaching it to a cube so I get the best of both worlds. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=11pt]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20151126_190339.jpg [/SIZE]


I don't understand the difference between this and a keg on low carb. I think it was Bribie who said he does this.


----------



## welly2

LorriSanga said:


> I don't understand the difference between this and a keg on low carb. I think it was Bribie who said he does this.


I think it's just another method. Might suit S.E. more than kegging. I'm doing neither, at this point, just straight into the collapsible cube. Will investigate other means as I learn about serving cask ale!


----------



## S.E

LorriSanga said:


> I don't understand the difference between this and a keg on low carb. I think it was Bribie who said he does this.


Do you mean a cube on low carb? I think that’s what Bribie G said he used for cask ale. An un modified keg on low carb wouldn’t work as the co2 pressure would need to be high enough to push the beer op the dip tube to serve so that would be keg ale not cask.

A keg could be fitted with a tap at the bottom and used for cask ale or a beer engine used to draw the beer up through the dip tube.

With the combined cube and collapsible bag you don’t need to tie up kegs, co2 bottle and regulator. In fact you don’t need a co2 system.

All as I do is fill up the bag with co2 from the fermenter by plugging the bag into the airlock hole when the wort is vigorously fermenting then use the free co2 to top up the cube automatically as the beer is drawn from the cube.

For less than $30 you can put together a draft real ale system. All you need is a cube,bag short length of 10mm tube air lock and grommet.

Drill a hole in the cube cap and fit the grommet. Cut the bottom bit of tube off the airlock (about 3cm) and push it half way in to one end of the tube, the other half pushes in to the grommet. Then push the other end of the tube over the tap on the bag.

I have a few spare cube taps so drilled one of those for the grommet and use un drilled caps while the cubes are conditioning but if you have no spare caps the hole could be blocked with a hard spile or something similar.


----------



## welly2

Might be of interest:

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=64305

I've just ordered some polypins from the UK. They were super cheap so wanted to give them a go. And I've got a Vitop connector on its way with it. Going to give it a go. Basically what I'm doing now but was getting a few leaks this evening when pulling a few beers. We'll see what happens. Beers are coming out really well other than that and despite the beer fermenting any flavour out but it looks like a cask ale at least!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Your right welly it is basically what you are doing now, I presume that the white piece is an inline non return valve which is what you may need to prevent the leaks which you are getting. You don't really need any of that what you have sent away for, you can, or have, already made up the same system without the box and a stronger collapsible bag.


----------



## welly2

wide eyed and legless said:


> Your right welly it is basically what you are doing now, I presume that the white piece is an inline non return valve which is what you may need to prevent the leaks which you are getting. You don't really need any of that what you have sent away for, you can, or have, already made up the same system without the box and a stronger collapsible bag.


The outlet to my hand pump is proving to be the big pain in the arse. I've got a bit of a dodgy connection between the hand pump and my polypin. It's just a bit unreliable. The Vitop connector looks to be the thing to sort that out and for the sake of $20 plus a bit of postage, I don't mind too much!


----------



## Danwood

Don't you love it when the folks come for a visit from the UK ?

They're off to the shops to buy a change of clothes to wear now.


----------



## Midnight Brew

One day...... :chug:


----------



## wide eyed and legless

O/K going to try the idea SE put forward for collecting the co2 from my fermenting wort, hadn't brewed for a long time and I felt like a virgin newbie brewer, having pitched my yeast and checking every hour to see if had started to work, nearly got out of bed at 4.00 am to check it.
Anyway it is working and the collapsible water container is almost full, so now I am sure that connecting this to my cask will disperse any concerns with gas bottle leaks and over priming the head space of the cask with co2 
Such a simple idea, which are always the best, cheers Sean.


----------



## S.E

I use bags of co2 with cubes almost all the time now it works really well. If you have a co2 cylinder just filling the bag from that would obviously be easiest but it is easy enough to fill from a fermenter if you don’t have a keg setup.

A couple of my bags don’t seal properly though and if left full for a few days will start going flat slowly. I bought 2 bags on ebay and 4 more when they were on special at Aldi. I think it’s the Aldi ones that leak.

Only thing is you need to remember to take the bag of when it’s full. I forgot one time and went to bed, in the morning I found the bag had blown up like a balloon and the fermenter was a bit under pressure but luckily co2 was escaping from around the grommet and lid seal.

What I do now is set my phone alarm for one hour (which is the fastest time one has filled for me) then check it estimate how much longer it will take and re set the alarm accordingly.

How long it takes to fill will depend on how fast your wort is fermenting. Using so4 my 20L bags fill in about 1 hour and fermentation is finished in 2-3 days at 18c-20c, Slowest was over 3 hours using M41 Belgian Ale at 24c and fermentation took about 7 days.

I don’t fit the bag immediately after pitching the yeast but leave it till at least the next day so the yeast has used or purged oxygen from the fermrnter and blow off.

Another experiment I tried with a bag and cube was fermenting and serving late hopped ale (Simcoe) from the same cube to minimise any exposure to oxygen. The result was ale with a fantastic hop aroma.

What I did was ferment in the cube with a blow off tube attached to the tap. I didn’t take photos this time but posted pics of this method over in the carbing and conditioning in a cube thread post #52. I think I have already posted a link to them earlier in this thread but it’s here if not or anyone hasn’t seen it.

This time though when fermentation was almost complete and the blow off bubbling slowly I stood the cube upright fitted a cap with a hole and grommet and attached the bag so it could fill with co2 then closed the bag tap so the cube could carb up.

I could have just fitted the blow off to the cap to start with but thought the tap would work better than the smaller grommet hole and not block up as easily in the early stage.

Cheers Sean


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I don’t fit the bag immediately after pitching the yeast but leave it till at least the next day so the yeast has used or purged oxygen from the fermrnter and blow off.

That was something I never thought of, because my first brew in the jerry can toppled over the jerry can was only half full the other half was air, so my first bag is a mixture of air and co2, I have since filled another bag so I will empty the first bag and refill it with my second brew, cost FA so no loss.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> O/K going to try the idea SE put forward for collecting the co2 from my fermenting wort, hadn't brewed for a long time and I felt like a virgin newbie brewer, having pitched my yeast and checking every hour to see if had started to work, nearly got out of bed at 4.00 am to check it.
> Anyway it is working and the collapsible water container is almost full, so now I am sure that connecting this to my cask will disperse any concerns with gas bottle leaks and over priming the head space of the cask with co2
> Such a simple idea, which are always the best, cheers Sean.
> 
> 
> 
> 001 - Copy.JPG


Just noticed you have reduced the tube over the bag tap down to gas line and a tap above the fv lid. What’s the idea behind that are you going to pressure transfer to a cube?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

No just different sizes on the taps.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> No just different sizes on the taps.


Why did you use a tap on the fv though? You only need a tap on the bag. I can’t make out how you’ve connected to the fv, did you cut a piece of air lock? If so the tube should fit snugly over that.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The tap on the fermenter cap is the same as what I use on the casks when I connect to the gas bottle, to make it neater I will have to get some new caps for the bags and fit John Guest fittings to a plain cap.




The yellow piece inside the cap is a rawl plug jammed in nice and tight, no gas has ever leaked through the seal it makes.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> The tap on the fermenter cap is the same as what I use on the casks when I connect to the gas bottle, to make it neater I will have to get some new caps for the bags and fit John Guest fittings to a plain cap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 001.JPG
> 
> The yellow piece inside the cap is a rawl plug jammed in nice and tight, no gas has ever leaked through the seal it makes.


Ah ok, I remember now you’ve posted a picture of that before. If you continue filling bags from the fermenter you may be better off drilling another cap to take a grommet and use that for filling the bag with a single piece of pipe that’s easy to clean.

That duct tape will be hard to keep clean or a pain to keep redoing and could cause infections with condensation dropping back in to the fv especially if you reuse your yeast.

Edit: Sorry just reread you post and see you intend to get new caps.


----------



## welly2

If anyone is interested, got an email from this mob http://cfbsonline.co.uk/




For our special customers

100 for 100

Get this super classy looking classic real-ale clamp-on handpull for a give-away January offer of £100 each
We have 100 of these beautys available so please don't hesitate to contact us if this is of interest
or use the promotional January code of *rlbs10* at the check-out of our website shop to get 10% off all items on our webshop plus get this handpull offer.

Price exclude VAT & Carriage

Handpull Spec: 

1/4pt Pull Cylinder with Water Cooling Jacket as standard
Polished Brass Handle Assembly with Oak Colour Wood Handle & Plinth
Clamp-on Unit with 70mm wide Clamp-Jaw (Clamps to a bar / work top between 25 and 70mm thick)
280mm Pump Length from under plinth (bar top) to bottom of handpull
Fully Refurbished Unit to an "As New" finish with a 12 month warranty (same as brand new)

Probably a good time to buy at the moment while the pommy quid is worth next to **** all.


----------



## fdsaasdf

welly2 said:


> Probably a good time to buy at the moment while the pommy quid is worth next to **** all.


Thanks for sharing, looks like a cracking deal at ~$160 AUD. Unfortunately shipping quote is 126 pounds so almost $400 AUD landed...


----------



## Robbo2234

Bulk buy!


----------



## fdsaasdf

Robbo2234 said:


> Bulk buy!


If shipping was $100 or less per unit I'd buy one, maybe even two. I could almost certainly find someone else who wants one.


----------



## fdsaasdf

Some quick figures (units, GBP, AUD)

226 ~$365 
326 ~$526 (~$273 each)
514 ~$830 (~$276 each)
614 ~$992 (~$248 each)
714 ~$1153 (~$230 each)
902 ~$1457 (~$243 each)
1002 ~$1619 (~$231 each)
1102 ~$1780 (~$223 each)

5 seems like the sweet spot. Another 3 or so folks interested in BNE?


----------



## fdsaasdf

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93906-eoi-importing-beer-engines-from-the-uk-limited-time-offer/ register your interest


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

welly2 said:


> Probably a good time to buy at the moment while the pommy quid is worth next to **** all.


Thanks for the link and info welly2.

Does anyone know what one of these weighs? Some quick googling hasn't helped me.

I'm travelling to the UK in March/April, hoping I might be able to fit one in my luggage on the return journey.


----------



## welly2

My folks sent me over my hand pump from the UK last year, it cost then about £40 and it arrived in less than two weeks. If anyone is interested, I'll dig out the shipping agent. I think it was Parcels2Go off the top of my head if someone wants to google it. Weight is roughly 3kg give or take, based on my hand pump.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

S.E said:


> Just noticed you have reduced the tube over the bag tap down to gas line and a tap above the fv lid. What’s the idea behind that are you going to pressure transfer to a cube?


Used the old grey matter on the second fermenter, found a grommet for 4mm tube fits snugly up the spout of the water carrier, a bit of 'Wet Stuff' smeared on the 6mm tube and a nice tight fit, no more taped joints.


----------



## koshari

sp0rk said:


> A beer engine is your easiest and most expensive option, shipping from the UK will set you back between $80-$150 depending on the seller
> Ebay has some every now and then, but the price has seemed to be climbing as of late
> Otherwise if you know someone who's in the UK or visting there, you can get them to send/bring one back for you
> The cheapest and slightly more involved way is making an engine using a toggle pump from a caravan/RV
> Like this http://byo.com/porter/item/346-build-a-beer-engine-projects
> the Valterra RP800 pump in that project plus a spare piston/seal kit will set you back around $50 shipped from the US on amazon
> A lot of guys on here are using collapsible water containers such as http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/...ner-20L.aspx?pid=114174&menuFrom=571633#Cross
> The benefit of the collapsible container is there is little to no oxygen contact, so you don't need to drink the ale quickly like you would have to in a proper cask (unless you're using a respirator, and then it's not real ale afaik)
> 
> *edit*
> I forgot to mention, the cheapest I've seen one for in Australia is about $200 used but in decent condition



well i have decided to go down the budget path and just pulled the trigger on a Valterra RP800 pump.







there is a local RV supplier on ebay selling them for 60 bucks (75 with postage).
when it comes i will give a run down on it, just need to work out how to attach a sparkler head to it,

something like this,


----------



## RobW

Anybody looked at these: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/WWROWEQK-beer-engine/7BEER ENGINE


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reasonable price, had a notification about these as well, no check valve needed and cylinderless.
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/pro...R ENGINE SHAKESPEARE--beer-engine-shakespeare
The sparkler koshari I got mine from bunnings tap spare parts in Bunnings, some sort of aerator.


----------



## koshari

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reasonable price, had a notification about these as well, no check valve needed and cylinderless.
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/VIPRMNCD-new-products/7BEER ENGINE SHAKESPEARE--beer-engine-shakespeare
> The sparkler koshari I got mine from bunnings tap spare parts in Bunnings, some sort of aerator.
> View attachment 106488


work well does it?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

As good as any.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Got sick of trying to find my way through an obstacle course via the vegie beds to my bar as far from the house as possible, reorganised my cool room (fermenting shed) set up one of my pumps and have an Abbotts Ale clone conditioning to go on to the pump. Re thought my CO2 capturing method, (no more duct tape and reducing silicone tube) tapped out the nozzle on the collapsible water container 1/4 BSP, attached hose barb, bringing back from retirement my fermenter lids, (getting rid of the clingfilm), attached hose barb with nut and rubber "O" ring.
The captured gas to be attached to the cask connected to the hand pump, the vacuum created in the cask will draw in the captured CO2 keeping the oxygen away from the beer. Sorry CAMRA.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> Sorry CAMRA.



CAMRA object to extraneous carbon dioxide. I wonder if they would actually object to CO2 from the fermenter being stored externally then used with the beer that produced it? Cant see why


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I'm with you on that Sean but I would imagine they would prefer the air to get to the beer for the flavour produced before it goes off. I have 15 litres to get through, I could do it within a few days, but my wife wouldn't approve.


----------



## S.E

Air entering the cask and oxidising the beer is part of the style but its generally considered at its best consumed before any noticeable oxidising.

Air is part co2 anyway so we are introducing extraneous co2 as soon as we let air enter the cask.


----------



## nosco

So the serving cube is a secondary? It looks very clean. When or how do you use the collapsible so as not to turn it in to a blow off tube? Or to you fillit with co2 from a gas bottle?


----------



## koshari

There are a new style of casks being used in the uk with a bladder in them that colapses as the beer is pumped. When i were there last year there was a lot of discussions if camba condones them.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A bit like the wine casks here, the collapsable water container I am using to catch the CO2 can also be used to accommodate the beer and as you pump out the beer, that slowly collapses as you say above. The cube I am using as a cask is easier to clean and I have never had any taste problems with them, nor as someone once suggested been in any danger of losing my life to an exploding cube.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

S.E said:


> CAMRA object to extraneous carbon dioxide. I wonder if they would actually object to CO2 from the fermenter being stored externally then used with the beer that produced it? Cant see why



I'm sure they would, given that that's standard routine for large breweries* and they're all about not doing what large breweries do.


* It's not cost effective much below 100Ml PA.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

nosco said:


> So the serving cube is a secondary? It looks very clean. When or how do you use the collapsible so as not to turn it in to a blow off tube? Or to you fillit with co2 from a gas bottle?


Only the stout's seem to get near the top of the fermenter, there is enough headspace so just the gas gets pushed through, I can fill it with the bottle also but the idea is I just keep my bottle gas for transfers, so I will have to get a couple more collapsibles for serving the beers. I still have to set up my Valterra which I have just bought a check valve for off Aliexpress.


----------



## S.E

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> I'm sure they would, given that that's standard routine for large breweries* and they're all about not doing what large breweries do.
> 
> 
> * It's not cost effective much below 100Ml PA.



They are not all about not doing what large breweries do. Some large breweries do exactly what they want, produce and serve traditional real ale.

Some like Wadworth of Devizes take it a step further and deliver some of their beer locally in wood casks with shire horses.

What we are doing is not the same as the large breweries. We are not using the CO2 we store in collapsible water containers to force carbonate beer or dispense it under pressure. 

We are collecting CO2 from the primary fermenter and using it untreated and uncompressed to replace the same beer as it is dispensed from the cask (or ridged no chill cubes we use as casks).

CAMRA define real ale here http://www.camra.org.uk/about-real-ale.

_“Real ale is a beer brewed from traditional ingredients (malted barley, hops water and yeast), matured by secondary fermentation in the container from which it is dispensed, and served without the use of extraneous carbon dioxide.”_

_“Some beer served from keg, often called "craft keg", is produced using different levels of filtration and/or pastuerisation (in some case using neither), which results in a keg beer which still has live yeast present. If it still uses additional gas during dispense then it does not qualify - under CAMRA policy - as real ale. CAMRA recognises beers which contain live yeast which are served without gas coming into contact with the beer (such as in KeyKegs/KeyCasks) as real ale.”_

We can dispense the first few pints of beer from the cube under CO2 pressure when it is swollen from secondary fermentation and it is still real ale. After that we need to use our bag of CO2 or loosen the cap and let in air to either gravity dispense or hand pump. 

If they consider the CO2 we collect and store from primary as extraneous CO2 then I guess it does not qualify as real ale but then a cask that is traditionally vented and gravity dispensed cannot qualify as real ale either as it is letting extraneous CO2 from the air come in to contact with the beer and using it to dispense.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

My collapsible water container is now full of CO2 my Abbots Ale should be conditioned so I will reduce the temp of the cask to 10 degrees and tomorrow draw my first pint using the captured gas, I will have to keep a record of how long the gas lasts against pints drawn. Hope its not as hard as recalling how many drinks I've had.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Abbots Ale clone 10 degrees C, nectar, how I have missed my cask ale.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

S.E said:


> Do you mean a cube on low carb? I think that’s what Bribie G said he used for cask ale. An un modified keg on low carb wouldn’t work as the co2 pressure would need to be high enough to push the beer op the dip tube to serve so that would be keg ale not cask.
> 
> A keg could be fitted with a tap at the bottom and used for cask ale or a beer engine used to draw the beer up through the dip tube.
> 
> With the combined cube and collapsible bag you don’t need to tie up kegs, co2 bottle and regulator. In fact you don’t need a co2 system.
> 
> All as I do is fill up the bag with co2 from the fermenter by plugging the bag into the airlock hole when the wort is vigorously fermenting then use the free co2 to top up the cube automatically as the beer is drawn from the cube.
> 
> For less than $30 you can put together a draft real ale system. All you need is a cube,bag short length of 10mm tube air lock and grommet.
> 
> Drill a hole in the cube cap and fit the grommet. Cut the bottom bit of tube off the airlock (about 3cm) and push it half way in to one end of the tube, the other half pushes in to the grommet. Then push the other end of the tube over the tap on the bag.
> 
> I have a few spare cube taps so drilled one of those for the grommet and use un drilled caps while the cubes are conditioning but if you have no spare caps the hole could be blocked with a hard spile or something similar.





S.E said:


> Do you mean a cube on low carb? I think that’s what Bribie G said he used for cask ale. An un modified keg on low carb wouldn’t work as the co2 pressure would need to be high enough to push the beer op the dip tube to serve so that would be keg ale not cask.
> 
> A keg could be fitted with a tap at the bottom and used for cask ale or a beer engine used to draw the beer up through the dip tube.
> 
> With the combined cube and collapsible bag you don’t need to tie up kegs, co2 bottle and regulator. In fact you don’t need a co2 system.
> 
> All as I do is fill up the bag with co2 from the fermenter by plugging the bag into the airlock hole when the wort is vigorously fermenting then use the free co2 to top up the cube automatically as the beer is drawn from the cube.
> 
> For less than $30 you can put together a draft real ale system. All you need is a cube,bag short length of 10mm tube air lock and grommet.
> 
> Drill a hole in the cube cap and fit the grommet. Cut the bottom bit of tube off the airlock (about 3cm) and push it half way in to one end of the tube, the other half pushes in to the grommet. Then push the other end of the tube over the tap on the bag.
> 
> I have a few spare cube taps so drilled one of those for the grommet and use un drilled caps while the cubes are conditioning but if you have no spare caps the hole could be blocked with a hard spile or something similar.


So wouldn't you be able to attach a hand pump to a keg that has a very low carbonation level beer in it that's attached to a co2 bottle set to a very low pressure? I realise it would be regarded as keg beer but wouldn't the beer produced at the tap be very similar to this system of collecting co2 in collapsable cube connected to a rigid cube and then hand pulled?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> So wouldn't you be able to attach a hand pump to a keg that has a very low carbonation level beer in it that's attached to a co2 bottle set to a very low pressure? I realise it would be regarded as keg beer but wouldn't the beer produced at the tap be very similar to this system of collecting co2 in collapsable cube connected to a rigid cube and then hand pulled?


I think CAMRA are a bit to rigid in their rules though I am pretty sure they have changed it. Koshari put a post up recently, cant remember which thread it was in, but you only need little or no carbonation in the cask I have put a teaspoon of sugar into 20 litres and keep the co2 from the ferment in the collapsible cube. Just do whatever suits as long as it comes out the way you like it.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Just as an aside, in order to fit a sprinkler do you have to have a hand pump system or does anyone know of a way of fitting them to standard taps?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just as an aside, in order to fit a sprinkler do you have to have a hand pump system or does anyone know of a way of fitting them to standard taps?


Somewhere in this thread is a post where I fitted a tap aerator which I got from Bunnings to this pump,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BGM2XG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
The beer pours identical to a beer engine, a cheap way to go to enjoy a cask ale.


----------



## koshari

Fitting a sparkler to a standard tap wont work very well as you need more pressure. This is what smoothflow is all about. Eg. John smith. Guinness.smithwicks.

The hand pump increases the pressure at the sparkler to force the beer throught the small holes.

Then you need to use cellermix gas so the hgher pressure doesnt overcarbomate the beer.

Edit; just to be clear you dont need cellermix and high pressure using a pump because the pump temporarily pressures the beer as you pump. Smoothflow is a way of getting a similar creamy finish like a hand pump with a draft setup..


----------



## S.E

Tricky Dicky said:


> So wouldn't you be able to attach a hand pump to a keg that has a very low carbonation level beer in it that's attached to a co2 bottle set to a very low pressure? I realise it would be regarded as keg beer but wouldn't the beer produced at the tap be very similar to this system of collecting co2 in collapsable cube connected to a rigid cube and then hand pulled?


Yes you could do that. There is no reason a keg cant be used as a cask.

Only thing is cask conditioned ale has a fair bit of yeast settle at the bottom which will be drawen up the dip tube of a keg.With a cube the yeast settles below the tap.

You could use a floating dip on a keg to serve real ale and that would be fine even with CAMRA so long as you dont top it up with co2.


----------



## koshari

S.E said:


> Yes you could do that. There is no reason a keg cant be used as a cask.
> 
> Only thing is cask conditioned ale has a fair bit of yeast settle at the bottom which will be drawen up the dip tube of a keg.With a cube the yeast settles below the tap.
> 
> You could use a floating dip on a keg to serve real ale and that would be fine even with CAMRA so long as you dont top it up with co2.


Camra accepts co2 breathers now.

And the floating dip or widget is a good suggestion. Personally i would just use a cube if i were to go that route.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> Fitting a sparkler to a standard tap wont work very well as you need more pressure. This is what smoothflow is all about. Eg. John smith. Guinness.smithwicks.
> 
> The hand pump increases the pressure at the sparkler to force the beer throught the small holes.
> 
> Then you need to use cellermix gas so the hgher pressure doesnt overcarbomate the beer.
> 
> Edit; just to be clear you dont need cellermix and high pressure using a pump because the pump temporarily pressures the beer as you pump. Smoothflow is a way of getting a similar creamy finish like a hand pump with a draft setup..


In order to increase the flow through the sparkler couldn't you just keep the keg pressure and carbonation low and shorten the beer line(I'm jet lagged so could be talking complete shite!)


----------



## koshari

No it doesnt work that way because as soon as you have flow the static pressure drops and the line pressure drop across the hose would pail into insignificence compared to the restrictor.

There is a poor mans way to do it but it wastes a bit of gas. You simply crank the reg up to 30psi. Pour the beer through a restrictor tap then screw it back down to 8psi and vent the keg.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> No it doesnt work that way because as soon as you have flow the static pressure drops and the line pressure drop across the hose would pail into insignificence compared to the restrictor.
> 
> There is a poor mans way to do it but it wastes a bit of gas. You simply crank the reg up to 30psi. Pour the beer through a restrictor tap then screw it back down to 8psi and vent the keg.


Not sure what you mean, doesn't the co2 bottle top up the keg when the pressure drops in there and wouldn't the pressure at the tap increase if the beer line is shortened? Or am I missing something?


----------



## koshari

Simply put there is relatively little restriction in the line compared to across the restrictor/sparkler that variations in the line length are relatively low in comparison.

The c02 reg will govern flow to maintain the set pressure. The pressure in the line regardless of length (to a degree ) will stay relatively similar to the regulator outlet pressure all the way to the restrictor. There will be a huge pressure drop across the restrictor/sparkler whilst there is flow.

It is in fact the change of pressure across this restrictor that changes the amount of soluble c02 in the fluid.

If you didn't have a restrictor/sparkler in the system the majority of the pressure drop would then be in the line. This is why on systems without a restrictor the hose size/length combination becomes more of an issue.

Hope this makes sense.


----------



## S.E

koshari said:


> Camra accepts co2 breathers now.


Really, since when? I cant find enything about that. Still says on their site must be dispensed without any gas or gas mix. http://www.camra.org.uk/about-real-ale


----------



## koshari

Came out in their last quarterly newsletter from the last annual conference.

Below is a copy of the motion and a link to the article.

CAMRA now neutral on "cask breathers"

Members decided to change CAMRA's policy on "cask breathers" - devices used in pub cellars to lengthen the life of cask beers by ensuring a blanket of carbon dioxide preserves the beer. Previously against such devices, the motion called on the Campaign to end its opposition to cask breathers.

National Director Nick Boley explained that all cask breathers do is stop air from getting into the cask and keeps the condition of the beer closer to a freshly tapped cask.

He added: "I've tried to work out the chemistry of why cask breathers were wrong: I couldn't and I'm still scratching my head. Cask breathers are a boon for small rural pubs and cafe bars. If we want to get cask beer into these outlets this is one way of doing it.

"The ban on cask breather policy has had its day and there is no reason to continue to exclude pubs using cask breathers from our guide.

John O'Donnell, from Trafford and Hulme branch said; "We've heard a popular myth that beer needs oxygen for secondary fermentation, it doesn't. Oxygen is beer's enemy. This perpetuates another myth that pubs that use cask breathers aren't good pubs. [Our current policy] results in members going into pubs and tell them they're not eligible for awards. It's a bad thing.

National Director Ben Wilkinson said: "This motion is about giving more freedom to CAMRA's branches. There are lots of pubs across the UK which cannot be placed in the Good Beer Guide (GBG) because of our policy. This will allow pubs to be included in the GBG based on the quality of the beer and the pub. There is a lot of confusion about cask breathers which is simply not true. They improve the quality of beer and that is all that they do. Let's trust branches and our local members to assess the quality of beers on their merit."


http://www.camra.org.uk/news/-/asse...uture-as-its-members-call-for-positive-change


----------



## S.E

Wow I didnt think that would happen. Got to be a good thing, pubs can now put on a wider range of ales that dont need to be consumed in a few days and stay in the CAMRA good beer guide.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> Simply put there is relatively little restriction in the line compared to across the restrictor/sparkler that variations in the line length are relatively low in comparison.
> 
> The c02 reg will govern flow to maintain the set pressure. The pressure in the line regardless of length (to a degree ) will stay relatively similar to the regulator outlet pressure all the way to the restrictor. There will be a huge pressure drop across the restrictor/sparkler whilst there is flow.
> 
> It is in fact the change of pressure across this restrictor that changes the amount of soluble c02 in the fluid.
> 
> If you didn't have a restrictor/sparkler in the system the majority of the pressure drop would then be in the line. This is why on systems without a restrictor the hose size/length combination becomes more of an issue.
> 
> Hope this makes sense.


Ah ok got it now, good explanation mate thanks for that. So to digress a tad, what I'm after is a method of getting close to being able to produce a pint of EB with the hand pulled characteristics i. e creamy head, low carbonation from a co2/corny keg system. You mentioned cranking up the Psi when pouring and then venting the keg to prevent over carbonating the beer. Would I still need to have something like Intertap fitted with the beer nozzle? And are there any other options of reproducing hand pulled beer besides the pump engine or cellarmix set up?


----------



## koshari

You still need a tap with a restrictor for previous method not flow control. They are often called stout faucets.Some taps have provision for a restrictor, possibly intertap is one.

Another cheap and cheerfully way is to make a Bronx pump from either a water sprayer or a caravan water pump. There are posts of both methods on site. The spray bottle setup works well and is under 10 bucks of bits.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Saw a Youtube clip hand pulling from a keg whilst the vent is open and then they suggest that when you finished your session (if you're not blown out of your tree that is) regass at very low pressure and vent off the oxygen. Has anyone tried this and how does the beer go after being exposed to oxygen for maybe a couple of hours at a time?


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> Saw a Youtube clip hand pulling from a keg whilst the vent is open and then they suggest that when you finished your session (if you're not blown out of your tree that is) regass at very low pressure and vent off the oxygen. Has anyone tried this and how does the beer go after being exposed to oxygen for maybe a couple of hours at a time?


Or go one better and just use a bbq lpg reg connected to co2 as a cask breather.

The only reason i can see you would do that is if your pump isnt fitted with a demand valve.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Are the lpg regulators preset and to what pressure?


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> Are the lpg regulators preset and to what pressure?


They are preset and they are about half a psi.


----------



## S.E

Sorry, post deleted. Just noticed we already discussed it.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> well i have decided to go down the budget path and just pulled the trigger on a Valterra RP800 pump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is a local RV supplier on ebay selling them for 60 bucks (75 with postage).
> when it comes i will give a run down on it, just need to work out how to attach a sparkler head to it,
> 
> something like this,


How did this turn out? Any videos of pulling a pint on this?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

They work just as well as a conventional beer engine, a long piece of silicone tube to get down to the bottom of a pint glass, for a sparkler just get a tap aerator from Bunnings.
There is a build somewhere on here, if you want one I think I have a spare out in the shed.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/cask-and-hand-pump.78151/page-4
Check out page 2 as well.


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> How did this turn out? Any videos of pulling a pint on this?


Actually not to bad. No video as i aquired some angrams soon afterwards.

The good thing about these pumps is the spout is removable via the gland. I reckon you could make a really nice gooseneck that would reach the bottom of a glass by bending up some tubing of the same size.

Alternarively as WEAL says just use some tubing.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Over in the UK at the moment and just had my first pint of Timothy Taylor Landlord, what a bloody drop! Managed to down 3 pints over lunch, if I could homebrew anywhere near this I'd be over the moon! But definitely need some kind of hand pump. (BTW was trying to upload a photo but it seems to be a difficult process any pointers anyone?)


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> They work just as well as a conventional beer engine, a long piece of silicone tube to get down to the bottom of a pint glass, for a sparkler just get a tap aerator from Bunnings.
> There is a build somewhere on here, if you want one I think I have a spare out in the shed.
> https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/cask-and-hand-pump.78151/page-4
> Check out page 2 as well.


What's the best way to attach the silicon tube to the aerator?


----------



## koshari

If your in the UK you could consider grabbing one to take home. The handle and swan neck are easily removed to fit in lour luggage. They weigh about 7kg and i have picked a few up for around 35 pounds ea.


As for beers there are haps of lovely ones.

Purity mad goose. Church end ipa. Magpie unchained. Byers big cat. Wells bombadeer. Slaughterhouse short and curly. Just to name a few o have enjoyed over the last few days.


Edit: you can add sharps doombar and adnams ghost ship to that list.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> If your in the UK you could consider grabbing one to take home. The handle and swan neck are easily removed to fit in lour luggage. They weigh about 7kg and i have picked a few up for around 35 pounds ea.
> 
> As for beers there are haps of lovely ones.
> 
> Purity mad goose. Church end ipa. Magpie unchained. Byers big cat. Wells bombadeer. Slaughterhouse short and curly. Just to name a few o have enjoyed over the last few days.


You mean grabbing the camping pump?


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> You mean grabbing the camping pump?


I mean grabbing an angram cq .

I picked up another one this trip along with a couple of hunting scene handles.

Fortinately a bloke was selling some where i was traveling through.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Gee for 35 quid is very cheap, did you need to service them, I'm assuming they were second hand?


----------



## koshari

They were good. Look for ones that have been pulled out of pubs by builders. All the ones i have got were perfectly operational. I guess i was lucky. You can test them pretty easy by just pumping water through them and putting your thumb over the outlet with the sparkler unscrewed.

The one i got this year had the added bonus of having a demand valve with it. It was missing a sparkler. Fortinately i had a spare sparkler as i got an extra last year when i was over as it was same price to have 2 delivered as 3.

Unfortunately time and distance can be your enemy. But they do come up reasonably often. You just have to keep your eyes on gumtree uk. Ebay and facebook marketplace.


----------



## S.E

Tricky Dicky said:


> if I could homebrew anywhere near this I'd be over the moon!


You’ll get there soon enough. At the last Illawarra Brewers Union real ale fest a few weeks ago a couple members mentioned how surprised they had been drinking ale in the UK and finding it no better than what we produce ourselves.

I’m back in the UK at the moment and have to agree. I’m drinking lovely beers, but no better than I get at home and club events. .


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Agree with Sean, when I went to the UK and had a Timothy Taylor through the pump it tasted just like my own standard bitter, which was made not trying to clone a T.T.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> Have you ever noticed though how the bubbles sink, I don't know if it is the turbulence that causes them to go down the side of the glass instead of up.
> Here are some photos of the cubes in the cool room with a knocked up vent / CO2 injector the $50 beer engine with Bunnings sparkler and how to dispense non carbonated beer.
> I also do what Bribie was suggesting when transferring to secondary then to cask (cube) I put a blanket of CO2 in the vessel while transferring the beer.
> A beautiful ruby mild.
> Cheers
> 
> View attachment 68490
> 
> 
> View attachment 68491
> 
> 
> View attachment 68492
> 
> 
> View attachment 68493
> 
> 
> View attachment 68494


Looks a nice pour that mate! How did you attach the swan neck silicon tube to the original pump pipe and also how is the aerator attached to the silicon tube as looks like some kind of fitting on the end?


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> Agree with Sean, when I went to the UK and had a Timothy Taylor through the pump it tasted just like my own standard bitter, which was made not trying to clone a T.T.


But I reckon the hand pump makes all the difference to the experience and the beer. If it was served straight from the cask without the head it definitely loses something IMHO. So when you say homebrew bitter is just as good as say TT, that's homebrew through a pump yeah?


----------



## Tricky Dicky

S.E said:


> You’ll get there soon enough. At the last Illawarra Brewers Union real ale fest a few weeks ago a couple members mentioned how surprised they had been drinking ale in the UK and finding it no better than what we produce ourselves.
> 
> I’m back in the UK at the moment and have to agree. I’m drinking lovely beers, but no better than I get at home and club events. .


Are you drinking beer in the north or south of the UK? Just wondered if in the south they still serve good beer without the all important creamy head?


----------



## S.E

Tricky Dicky said:


> Are you drinking beer in the north or south of the UK? Just wondered if in the south they still serve good beer without the all important creamy head?


There isn’t really any difference between north and south these days, that’s a thing of the past. Some drinkers like a creamy head some don’t. Malty beers can improve through a sparkler hoppy ones are usually best without.

I have a beer engine at home but don’t often use it, mostly only use it to give my Irish stout a creamy head.

Actually don’t even use it for that lately as I have been using a nitro tap.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> But I reckon the hand pump makes all the difference to the experience and the beer. If it was served straight from the cask without the head it definitely loses something IMHO. So when you say homebrew bitter is just as good as say TT, that's homebrew through a pump yeah?


Yes through the hand pump, still is good with a gravity pour carbonated with its own gas but nothing beats a beer being forced through the pump with a sparkler fitted.


----------



## koshari

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes through the hand pump, still is good with a gravity pour carbonated with its own gas but nothing beats a beer being forced through the pump with a sparkler fitted.


My sentments exactly. Just love watching the the cascading bubble effect on the side of the glass while the head is settling. And the feel in the tounge of that dense creamy head is special.
I did look into going the smoothflo/nitro route but the complications/cost of setting up Nitro put me off. Then i aquired pumps and the rest is history.
Pumps are a bit of an upfront hit then virtually no ongoing extra costs.
I still dont mind smoothflow. Drank many a smithwicks in ireland and still fall back on a john smiths if there are not any favorable real ales on offer. Also still like a draft ale such as brewdog, williams joker ipa and other dry hopped lines but i have really neglected lagers of late.


----------



## koshari

Another hunting scene handle arrived.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> Another hunting scene handle arrived.


Bummer!


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> My sentments exactly. Just love watching the the cascading bubble effect on the side of the glass while the head is settling. And the feel in the tounge of that dense creamy head is special.
> I did look into going the smoothflo/nitro route but the complications/cost of setting up Nitro put me off. Then i aquired pumps and the rest is history.
> Pumps are a bit of an upfront hit then virtually no ongoing extra costs.
> I still dont mind smoothflow. Drank many a smithwicks in ireland and still fall back on a john smiths if there are not any favorable real ales on offer. Also still like a draft ale such as brewdog, williams joker ipa and other dry hopped lines but i have really neglected lagers of late.


Haven't tried Smithwicks but I've found the Caffrey's smooth flow a tad better than JS, I think the trick is with the smooth flow ales in cans is to allow them to warm up a bit after been poured, I think the malty flavours come through better. Just opened a Leeds Brewery's Leeds Best Bitter a very acceptable brew


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> Haven't tried Smithwicks but I've found the Caffrey's smooth flow a tad better than JS, I think the trick is with the smooth flow ales in cans is to allow them to warm up a bit after been poured, I think the malty flavours come through better. Just opened a Leeds Brewery's Leeds Best Bitter a very acceptable brew


Smithwicks is lovely. Nice hit of caramalt. You won't find much this side of the irish sea though.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Tricky Dicky said:


> Haven't tried Smithwicks but I've found the Caffrey's smooth flow a tad better than JS, I think the trick is with the smooth flow ales in cans is to allow them to warm up a bit after been poured, I think the malty flavours come through better.


----------



## f00b4r

S.E said:


> There isn’t really any difference between north and south these days, that’s a thing of the past. Some drinkers like a creamy head some don’t. Malty beers can improve through a sparkler hoppy ones are usually best without.



Not at all my experience of pubs as you move south or north in England.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> Smithwicks is lovely. Nice hit of caramalt. You won't find much this side of the irish sea though.





S.E said:


> You’ll get there soon enough. At the last Illawarra Brewers Union real ale fest a few weeks ago a couple members mentioned how surprised they had been drinking ale in the UK and finding it no better than what we produce ourselves.
> 
> I’m back in the UK at the moment and have to agree. I’m drinking lovely beers, but no better than I get at home and club events. .


Whereabouts in the UK are you?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

koshari said:


> Another hunting scene handle arrived.


Ripper handle, did you get it off eBay?


----------



## koshari

At the moment iam in warwickshire. And yes the hunting scene handle was on ebay. The bass ones are a bit more fragile as they are hollow. 
I think i will be making a couple of neoprene washers up when i fit it


----------



## koshari

f00b4r said:


> Not at all my experience of pubs as you move south or north in England.



My experiance. Far north ( scotland ) sparklers nice real ales and plenty of camra pubs. Heaps of single malts to choose from. But also very nice draft aipa ales such as brewdog , joker ipa and innes and gun ales and lagers very popular.

The north again plenty of camra pubs less choice of single malts. Some nice local ales. A pub in whitby had local ales for 1£80p a pint!!!

The midlands still plenty of camra pubs mostly using sparklers and plenty of camra beer festivals with cask gravity fed ales.Generally a choice of 1 or 2 single malts in pubs

Then the south.... well i havnt been past oxford or bath since 2000.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> My experiance. Far north ( scotland ) sparklers nice real ales and plenty of camra pubs. Heaps of single malts to choose from. But also very nice draft aipa ales such as brewdog , joker ipa and innes and gun ales and lagers very popular.
> 
> The north again plenty of camra pubs less choice of single malts. Some nice local ales. A pub in whitby had local ales for 1£80p a pint!!!
> 
> The midlands still plenty of camra pubs mostly using sparklers and plenty of camra beer festivals with cask gravity fed ales.Generally a choice of 1 or 2 single malts in pubs
> 
> Then the south.... well i havnt been past oxford or bath since 2000.


Managed to try Abbotts Ale, Fullers ESB, Ruddles and Doom Bar tonight, all hand pulled, what a bloody joy!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Managed to try Abbotts Ale, Fullers ESB, Ruddles and Doom Bar tonight, all hand pulled, what a bloody joy!


If you come across Titanic Brewery Plum Porter try that, when I was over there I was looking for a particular beer which had whey added to it from the Stilton cheese unfortunately they had stopped making it but another brewery has started making it Belvoir Brewery and the beer is called Blue Brew.
https://www.dairyreporter.com/Article/2016/11/28/From-blue-cheese-to-Blue-Brew


----------



## koshari

Love my stilton but cant imagine it in a beer.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

koshari said:


> Love my stilton but cant imagine it in a beer.



I just thought maybe there would be no need to nibble on cheese while having a pint, came across a white Stilton when I was over there which was also delicious.


----------



## koshari

If your still in london TD check this out.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2110405879204115/


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> If you come across Titanic Brewery Plum Porter try that, when I was over there I was looking for a particular beer which had whey added to it from the Stilton cheese unfortunately they had stopped making it but another brewery has started making it Belvoir Brewery and the beer is called Blue Brew.
> https://www.dairyreporter.com/Article/2016/11/28/From-blue-cheese-to-Blue-Brew


Haven't found the Titanic Plum Porter yet but tried a bottle from St Peter's brewery, had some cheese with it and can see that Stilton would be a perfect food match. This drop has strong fruity, chocolate flavours and a hint of coffee the more it breathed, drank the pint but half would be enough it's that rich, but I pushed through . Very enjoyable.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have tried to get the Prune juice concentrate, there is a place in South Melbourne which have it could be Sunraysia but I am not sure if they will sell it.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> If your still in london TD check this out.
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2110405879204115/


I'm in Yorkshire mate but thanks anyway. Sampling as much hand pulled and craft beers as possible, craft beers and beers in general are so cheap compared with Australia, got to enjoy it while I'm here, it would be criminal not to!


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> I'm in Yorkshire mate but thanks anyway. Sampling as much hand pulled and craft beers as possible, craft beers and beers in general are so cheap compared with Australia, got to enjoy it while I'm here, it would be criminal not to!



couldnt agree with you more. Yorkshire a lovely county, if you can get across to Whitby, took note at the forecast as we flew out and loks like there is a bit more nice weather to come. there is a local pub by the harbour that has local cask ales for under 2 quid. just the place to kill a bit of time waiting for your reservation time at the magpie cafe.

iam back home now adjusting from jetlag and my angram and hunting scene handles made it home just fine. check in luggage right on the allowance. needed every bit of our carry on as well, was pretty warm checking in wearing all my heavy clothes,


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> couldnt agree with you more. Yorkshire a lovely county, if you can get across to Whitby, took note at the forecast as we flew out and loks like there is a bit more nice weather to come. there is a local pub by the harbour that has local cask ales for under 2 quid. just the place to kill a bit of time waiting for your reservation time at the magpie cafe.
> 
> iam back home now adjusting from jetlag and my angram and hunting scene handles made it home just fine. check in luggage right on the allowance. needed every bit of our carry on as well, was pretty warm checking in wearing all my heavy clothes,


We normally go to Whitby on our trips back to UK but we won't be this time but the F&C's are great at the Magpie, I think it reopened after the fire (not 100% sure) but there are heaps of other places that are just as good there. One of our regular lunch time pubs is at the bottom of the steps that go up to the Abbey, great harbour views, not sure if that's the one you mentioned? Glad you got the pump home, I may look at one on my next visit and I'll have a few more brews under my belt. Managed to aquire 4 new branded pint glasses, two were given to me by a very kind landlord, Theakstons and a Black Sheep the others are a Boddington and Ossett Brewery.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

While you are in Yorkshire get up into the dales to the tea plantations, can't beat Proper Strong.


----------



## koshari

wide eyed and legless said:


> While you are in Yorkshire get up into the dales to the tea plantations, can't beat Proper Strong.


While in the dales , do to the white scar cave is well worth a visit. 90 minute tour is excellent.



> I think it reopened after the fire (not 100% sure)



it did indeed, was there about 4 weeks ago.



> One of our regular lunch time pubs is at the bottom of the steps that go up to the Abbey, great harbour views, not sure if that's the one you mentioned?



the one i mentioned is on the other side,very much a local pub.but yes that one on the opposite has great views, especially of the endeavour replica.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> While you are in Yorkshire get up into the dales to the tea plantations, can't beat Proper Strong.


Not sure about tea plantations in the dales but there is a beer over here called Proper Job.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Just had an amazing American IPA Wild Bill's from Aldi UK £1.29 for 500ml, maybe I should move back here


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Not sure about tea plantations in the dales but there is a beer over here called Proper Job.


I have tried Proper Job out of the bottle here, must say I enjoy Proper Strong Yorkshire tea better. Though I was joking about the tea plantations in the dales, there is a tea plantation in the Highlands of Scotland which is supposedly producing some very nice tea.


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just had an amazing American IPA Wild Bill's from Aldi UK £1.29 for 500ml,


nip into LIDL and try their inhouse brand "green gecko" , pretty good drop for round the same price.
https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Products.htm?articleId=252

if you come across any Purity brewery ales as well, give them a try morrisons supermarket were stocking them recently. they do a nice traditional dark called Ubu, and a few goldens , one called mad goose thats more bitter and also a bunny hopped thats more an aipa.
https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Purity-Brewing-Copure-Ubu/321261011



> maybe I should move back here


no the plan is to record the characteristics of all these wonderful drops and come back and clone them all.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> Have you ever noticed though how the bubbles sink, I don't know if it is the turbulence that causes them to go down the side of the glass instead of up.
> Here are some photos of the cubes in the cool room with a knocked up vent / CO2 injector the $50 beer engine with Bunnings sparkler and how to dispense non carbonated beer.
> I also do what Bribie was suggesting when transferring to secondary then to cask (cube) I put a blanket of CO2 in the vessel while transferring the beer.
> A beautiful ruby mild.
> Cheers
> 
> View attachment 68490
> 
> 
> View attachment 68491
> 
> 
> View attachment 68492
> 
> 
> View attachment 68493
> 
> 
> View attachment 68494


Rea


wide eyed and legless said:


> Have you ever noticed though how the bubbles sink, I don't know if it is the turbulence that causes them to go down the side of the glass instead of up.
> Here are some photos of the cubes in the cool room with a knocked up vent / CO2 injector the $50 beer engine with Bunnings sparkler and how to dispense non carbonated beer.
> I also do what Bribie was suggesting when transferring to secondary then to cask (cube) I put a blanket of CO2 in the vessel while transferring the beer.
> A beautiful ruby mild.
> Cheers
> 
> View attachment 68490
> 
> 
> View attachment 68491
> 
> 
> View attachment 68492
> 
> 
> View attachment 68493
> 
> 
> View attachment 68494



Is this the Valterra RP800 pump?


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> nip into LIDL and try their inhouse brand "green gecko" , pretty good drop for round the same price.
> https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Products.htm?articleId=252
> 
> if you come across any Purity brewery ales as well, give them a try morrisons supermarket were stocking them recently. they do a nice traditional dark called Ubu, and a few goldens , one called mad goose thats more bitter and also a bunny hopped thats more an aipa.
> https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Purity-Brewing-Copure-Ubu/321261011
> 
> 
> no the plan is to record the characteristics of all these wonderful drops and come back and clone them all.


Have you managed to successfully clone any of the UK beers? If so which ones?


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> Have you managed to successfully clone any of the UK beers? If so which ones?


The only one i have been trying to replicate is smithwicks which is actually irish but near enough i suppose.

My 3rd attemt is pretty nice. Its sold as a smoothflo over there but is fine on the pump.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> The only one i have been trying to replicate is smithwicks which is actually irish but near enough i suppose.
> 
> My 3rd attemt is pretty nice. Its sold as a smoothflo over there but is fine on the pump.


Any chance you might share it


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Rea
> 
> 
> Is this the Valterra RP800 pump?


Correct


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> Correct


Just out of interest do you still use it or do you only use the traditional hand pumps?


----------



## koshari

Tricky Dicky said:


> Any chance you might share it


Absolutely. This is my b.o.m. for 40 litres.
can of draft. 4kg LME .700g crystal malt 100g roasted barley 50g ekg @30min.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> Absolutely. This is my b.o.m. for 40 litres.
> can of draft. 4kg LME .700g crystal malt 100g roasted barley 50g ekg @30min.


Yeast?


----------



## koshari

Just used a coopers ale yeast.
Was mainly concerned to get the amount of crystal in the ball park.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just out of interest do you still use it or do you only use the traditional hand pumps?


I use the traditional hand pump and the Rocket is sitting there idle, my intention was to mount it on a small portable unit with a 10 litre cube underneath for family occasions. I did buy the wood.


----------



## koshari

This thread rekindked my interest in using the rocket as a road warrior. Just bent up a new swan neck to reach the bottom of a pint glass.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> This thread rekindked my interest in using the rocket as a road warrior. Just bent up a new swan neck to reach the bottom of a pint glass.


When you say rocket you mean the Valterra pump or something else?


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Tricky Dicky said:


> When you say rocket you mean the Valterra pump or something else?


Any photos, I'm interested in how you attach a sparkler.


----------



## koshari

On the original spout i was able to screw a 1/8 bsp nipple into it then screw a home made sparkler on the other end.

The replacement will have a parker/swagelok compression fitting to 1/8 bsp and the same home made sparkler.

The home made sparkler basically a 1/8 cap with 7 holes drilled in it.


----------



## NC1984

Here is my attempt at Fullers Black Cab porter


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have put this up before some years ago, but a good read.
http://www.charlesfoster.co.uk/?p=500


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Any photos, I'm interested in how you attach a sparkler.


There has been some better builds on the net, one has gone but there may be more, but this is ideal for a gathering, they don't fall over like a mini keg, no gas for anyone to fiddle with, and pours a great beer.

https://byo.com/project/build-a-beer-engine-projects/


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Does anyone know what the thread size is for a sparkler that fits on to a hand pump?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Does anyone know what the thread size is for a sparkler that fits on to a hand pump?


1/4" BSP?


----------



## dblunn

wide eyed and legless said:


> 1/4" BSP


I'm sure about that, I measured it as a 5/8" Brass thread (26 tpi)


----------



## koshari

dblunn said:


> I'm sure about that, I measured it as a 5/8" Brass thread (26 tpi)


correct, its actually a British cycle thread (BSC or BSCy), 5/8 _British_ Standard _Cycle_ 26 TPI


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> correct, its actually a British cycle thread (BSC or BSCy), 5/8 _British_ Standard _Cycle_ 26 TPI


I'm trying to source a stainless straight barb fitting to attach vynal tubing to a sprinkler for a rocket pump. Having looked on line this type of thread seems incredibly rare, is there an equivalent thread size/type that could be substituted, or any other way of attaching a sprinkler to vynal tubing?


----------



## koshari

Looking at the brittish cycly thread it seems like the main diff is thread shape (60 deg versus 55). I suspect a slightly smaller diameter thread could work.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Another possiblity is to attach a intertap beer spout attachment, does anyone know the thread size/type on those, hopefully nothing obscure!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

As it turns out there are 2 Intertaps one an original the other a copy and the only difference is the thread on the spout and cap. Cheapest and easiest way is use some silicone tube, for a sparkler go to Bunnings and get a mixer in the tap dept only a few dollars.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

How did you fix the mixer into the tube?,


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Just push it in, it is a tight fit.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Just push it in, it is a tight fit.



That's what she said!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> That's what she said!


Who said? I did nearly mention that my wife said you can't beat a nice tight fit, but there are to many political correct people lurking.


----------



## dave_h

Does the Valterra pump need a non return valve between it and the keg/bag?

Also, are there any other pumps beside beer engines people recommend?

Thanks


----------



## wide eyed and legless

dave_h said:


> Does the Valterra pump need a non return valve between it and the keg/bag?
> 
> Also, are there any other pumps beside beer engines people recommend?
> 
> Thanks


Not something I would attach a decent amount of beer to though you could fit a none return valve to it, I would imagine.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Two beers through the pump, a bitter and a mild, must say this mild is better than my last, substituted the pale malt for Vienna malt, must have read that somewhere, gives a lot more body even though it went through the mash cycle at 63 C. 


Both still a bit green but delicious nevertheless.


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

wide eyed and legless said:


> Two beers through the pump, a bitter and a mild, must say this mild is better than my last, substituted the pale malt for Vienna malt, must have read that somewhere, gives a lot more body even though it went through the mash cycle at 63 C.
> View attachment 113596
> View attachment 113597
> Both still a bit green but delicious nevertheless.


Hey Weal those look great, it's a pity you don't live within wobbling distance of me, I'd be round your place all the time.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> As it turns out there are 2 Intertaps one an original the other a copy and the only difference is the thread on the spout and cap. Cheapest and easiest way is use some silicone tube, for a sparkler go to Bunnings and get a mixer in the tap dept only a few dollars.
> 
> View attachment 113573
> View attachment 113574


As far as I can tell the rocket pump inlet barb fitting would need a 10mm ID tube to connect back to the corny keg and I have been looking at how to connect a 10mm tube to the QD as I think it's a 8mm barb connection. Would clamping do the trick with a 10mm tube on to 8mm barb?


----------



## S.E

Tricky Dicky said:


> As far as I can tell the rocket pump inlet barb fitting would need a 10mm ID tube to connect back to the corny keg and I have been looking at how to connect a 10mm tube to the QD as I think it's a 8mm barb connection. Would clamping do the trick with a 10mm tube on to 8mm barb?


Use a short length of beer line over the QD barb with a push fit connector at the other end. Push the 10mm tube *over* the push fit connector.

The tube may need clamping over the connector. I’ve used silicone tube without clamping and had no problems.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

S.E said:


> Use a short length of beer line over the QD barb with a push fit connector at the other end. Push the 10mm tube *over* the push fit connector.
> 
> The tube may need clamping over the connector. I’ve used silicone tube without clamping and had no problems.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Where do you get your 10mm ID silicone tubing from?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You can get an array of sizes from Aliexpress, or just get some of the clear plastic tubing from Bunnings,
give it a but of a soak in bi-carb just in case it has a plastic taste and away you go.


----------



## koshari

i just used som bunnings tube


----------



## S.E

Tricky Dicky said:


> Where do you get your 10mm ID silicone tubing from?


I have silicone in a few different ID sizes from ebay not 10mm ID though. The one I use over the push fit is 12mm ID and just tight enough so I think 10mm should go over and give a good tight fit.

If not put a short piece of 4mm ID beer line over the barb of your QD, cut it back close to the barb then push the 10mm over that.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

koshari said:


> Or go one better and just use a bbq lpg reg connected to co2 as a cask breather.
> 
> The only reason i can see you would do that is if your pump isnt fitted with a demand valve.


Just researching how to get hold of a lpg regulator without the bull nose connector, and I may have found one but it has NPT threads 1/4" in and 3/8" out. I have found a JG push connector that claims to connects 8mm OD tube (rather than imperial) to both those sizes of NPT threads using Superthread https://www.johnguest.com/product/m...ings-pneumatics/straight-adaptor-superthread/ so I was wondering if anyone had used a JG Superthread product as it claims to work with BSP, BSPT, NPT, PF and PT threads and if so how well did it work?


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## NC1984

Hi mate, buy 



this one, can’t remember what threads but it said on the packet and we’re easy to get, I use this one myself


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## koshari

even if you have one with the POL connector, they generally just screw out at the shank.


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## Tricky Dicky

Finally got my shit together and got the rocket pump installed so far it works well.


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## wide eyed and legless

Where is the beer cask going to sit?


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## Tricky Dicky

I'm pulling it from the corny which is in the fridge just to the right.


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## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> Agree with Sean, when I went to the UK and had a Timothy Taylor through the pump it tasted just like my own standard bitter, which was made not trying to clone a T.T.


would be interested in your standard bitter recipe if its similar to TTL and chance of sharing it?


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## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> would be interested in your standard bitter recipe if its similar to TTL and chance of sharing it?


Will send you 2 recipes TD can't for the life of me remember which one it was Ordinary Bitter recipe would be the favourite. Been using Target hops of late (Burton Bridge Bitter and London Pride) and adding more bitterness, just got some Pilgrim hops to give them a whirl.


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## wide eyed and legless

Sorry for the late reply TD I have been renovating a holiday let, had a deadline to meet and when it is set by the wife it has to be met, skin of my teeth but.
Been through my recipes today narrowed it down to one, (I never put anything to strong through the hand pump, makes it to easy to over indulge)
For 21 litres OG 1.043 FG 1.011 IBU 31.33

3.75 Marris Otter
0.38 UK crystal 90L
38 g EKG 60 mins
20 g EKG 10 mins
Yeast S04.
90 min mash 90 min boil.


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## jeff clarke

starting volume of water and sparge? ( newbie at this )


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## wide eyed and legless

jeff clarke said:


> starting volume of water and sparge? ( newbie at this )


I do full volumes that would come in around 31 litres if you are sparging go to a ratio of 3 to 4 litres of water / kg boil volume would be around 26 litres your absorption loss would be around 4 litres of wort.


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## altone

jeff clarke said:


> starting volume of water and sparge? ( newbie at this )


Like WEAL says about 31 l if you are not sparging.
I sparge but like a "wet" mash ie high ratio of water.
I'd start with 22 litres (which on my unit is exactly at the 20l mark)
Then sparge with the balance, so 9 ish litres (I do keg size batches so only use about 7 litres)


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## jeff clarke

thanks guys will give it a go


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## Tricky Dicky

wide eyed and legless said:


> Sorry for the late reply TD I have been renovating a holiday let, had a deadline to meet and when it is set by the wife it has to be met, skin of my teeth but.
> Been through my recipes today narrowed it down to one, (I never put anything to strong through the hand pump, makes it to easy to over indulge)
> For 21 litres OG 1.043 FG 1.011 IBU 31.33
> 
> 3.75 Marris Otter
> 0.38 UK crystal 90L
> 38 g EKG 60 mins
> 20 g EKG 10 mins
> Yeast S04.
> 90 min mash 90 min boil.


Thanks WEAL, is this the TTL recipe as I thought it would have Golden Promise instead of MO also bit surprised with the yeast selection I expected a liquid one.


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## wide eyed and legless

Tricky Dicky said:


> Thanks WEAL, is this the TTL recipe as I thought it would have Golden Promise instead of MO also bit surprised with the yeast selection I expected a liquid one.


This is the one, I was surprised when I had the TTL through the hand pump and recognised the taste of my own, the only changes I have made to the above recipe is the hops and added more MO, that was the recipe I was using up until 2013.


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