# Effect Of Too Much Headspace?



## EVOSTi (11/3/08)

i bottled my first brew about two weeks ago and after doing it i think i might have left too much headspace in the bottle. i used coopers stubbies and didnt have any full ones in the fridge at the time so had nothing to compare too.

so im pretty sure i didnt fill them enough, will they still be ok? i was planning on cracking the first one in a week or so, figure 3 weeks is enough to try one out. i spose they will go stale quicker because of more oxygen in the bottle? maybe less carbonation?


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## matt white (11/3/08)

get one cold and crack it asap!

Then you will see what has happened.

Generally I have found that too much headspace leads to overcarbonation - not sure why though.

My advice would be to get them into ya before they overcarb.


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## dr K (11/3/08)

Unless you have a ridiculous amount of headspace the yeast will scavenge the remaining oxygen during conditioning (or what I would suggest is secondary fermentation).
The problem that you will/may have with a short fill is that as the CO2 is produced it will more so compress into the headspace than dissolve in the liquid and will liberate considerably more quickly from the head space than the liquid..thus you will get a gush of gas which will in turn disturb the beer left below, distubing the yeast cake and possibly causing a gusher !!
Try it and see..if its OK great but fill more next time anyway, if its not then you have learnt one of the hundreds of lessons that await you.

K


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## samhighley (11/3/08)

Which raises the question:

How much headspace do people leave in their plastic bottles?

Sam


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## wyatt_girth (11/3/08)

Sammy said:


> Which raises the question:
> 
> How much headspace do people leave in their plastic bottles?
> 
> Sam



740ml bottles? I've only used them a few times but I do about 5cm from top. Dont take my word for it I'm only a new HBer but I havent had any problems with carbonation so far.


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## warra48 (11/3/08)

Sammy said:


> Which raises the question:
> 
> How much headspace do people leave in their plastic bottles?
> 
> Sam



I do the same whether for stubbies or longnecks. 

I fill the bottles completely to the top. Note that the beer must reach the top of the bottle, not just the layer of froth on top, so I try to avoid froth as much as I practically can.

Once the bottles are removed from the bottling tube, there will be just the correct amount of headspace left.

No carbonation problems, and never a bomb.


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## dr K (11/3/08)

> I fill the bottles completely to the top. Note that the beer must reach the top of the bottle, not just the layer of froth on top, so I try to avoid froth as much as I practically can.



Precisely what I did last century when I bottled. 
We had in our Club a member whose beers could alway be ID'd in comps because he filled right to the top (give or take), not only did he make fantastic beers but he went on to become a Master Brewer, now I am not for a second suggesting that his high fills made his beers any better, they spoke for themselves and would have done as well with a 2cm headspasce but I _am_ suggesting its a pretty good model.

K


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## sponge (11/3/08)

warra48 said:


> I fill the bottles completely to the top. Note that the beer must reach the top of the bottle, not just the layer of froth on top, so I try to avoid froth as much as I practically can.
> 
> Once the bottles are removed from the bottling tube, there will be just the correct amount of headspace left.



+1


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## matti (12/3/08)

+2
to the top.
once the "little-bottler" is withdrawn that's the head space that remains.
About 2/3 of a long-necks "NECK-space"


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## Insight (12/3/08)

If you read any of the US publications (Palmer or Papazian etc), they always say 0.5 to 1 inch of headspace. I have found that the old plastic bottler from the LHBS leaves at least 2 inches of headspace, so I use a stainless jobbie from G&G. Have also successfully used the plastic ones by leaning the plastic fill nozzle against the inside of the bottle neck to get those extra 10-20ml in before capping.

I will say though, having been involved in a case swap with 27 other brewers recently - very few filled beyond two inches headspace.


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## blackbock (12/3/08)

I must be the only one around who doesn't fill right to the top. No real reason, just habit.


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## geoffi (12/3/08)

The bottling tube seems to displace exactly the right amount of liquid for the correct headspace. So, fill to the top, remove tube, et voila, perfect headspace.


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## EVOSTi (12/3/08)

ok so for the next one i will fill to the top with the tube in the bottle, all good.

ill chuck a bottle or two in the fridge when i get home from work, and try one when they are cold.

thanks for the replies.


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## barry2 (12/3/08)

warra48 said:


> I do the same whether for stubbies or longnecks.
> 
> I fill the bottles completely to the top. Note that the beer must reach the top of the bottle, not just the layer of froth on top, so I try to avoid froth as much as I practically can.
> 
> ...


I do the same with the Coopers PET 740ml bottles.
Usually finish up with beer 5-6cm from top of bottle.
No carbonation problems in over 50 brews.


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## pint of lager (12/3/08)

PET bottles, I squeeze so there is no headspace. You can quickly see when they start carbonating and they automatically generate the right amount of headspace as they pressurize.

Glass bottles, like everyone else does, use the plastic filler, when you remove the bottle from the filler there is the right headspace.

Wine bottles, I fill as high as possible, flush the headspace with CO2 and immediately cork.


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## Leigh (12/3/08)

I remember when I first started brewing that I had no idea how much headspace to leave...after doing soem reading I settled on leaving about 1 inch in stubbies and a little more in long necks...will give the "fill to the top" method a go next time I bottle as I have had issues with over-carbing!


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## pint of lager (12/3/08)

Over-carbing is due to bottling too early, over priming or infections. Fix your overcarbing first before mucking around with headspace.


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## Leigh (12/3/08)

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology, but what I am calling over-carbing is the inability to pour a glass without getting what my kids call beer-ice-cream...settles out eventually! 

Makes sense as the same amount of CO2 is generated irrespective of headspace...


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## EVOSTi (13/3/08)

just cracked one last night after nearly 3 weeks in the bottle.

carbonation seemed to be ok, maybe a little low but i did notice the beer had a slight tang to it. possibly a little fruity or maybe it was just the flavour of the beer. i controlled the temps to around 20 degrees but after bottling i left them at room temp which was maybe mid 20's.

hopefully a couple more weeks and they will be better?


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## cdbrown (14/3/08)

Fruity may be due to fermenting at a slightly higher temp than desired. But that depends on the yeast. Most ales are ok just above 20degC but lagers want to be below regardless of what the instructions say on the kit.


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## bennyc (3/8/09)

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I've noticed something recently with a couple of my old bottle conditions beers: (i) a brown ale/porter/something-or-other which I brewed six months ago; and (ii) an APA, brewed five months ago (I know I should have finished this by now). Both were bulk primed and bottled in stubbies and longnecks. When bottling, I always fill the liquid to the top of all the bottles (stubbies, longnecks) with the bottling wand, as per previous posts above.

Over the last month, I've been finishing off a couple of longnecks and stubbies of each beer. The longnecks of the brown ale have gushed when I've opened them, and the APA has been more carbonated than it was several months ago. The stubbies are still carbonated as they have always been. I'm 99.9% there haven't been any infections in any of the beers.

So any ideas why the longnecks are more carbonated? Does this come down to a headspace differential caused by the bottling wand displacing a disproportionate amount of liquid as between stubbies and longnecks?

Either way, I've learnt a valuable lesson - drink my beer quicker!

Ben

PS This is the closest thread that I've been able to find that discusses this idea. It isn't really a problem with most of the beers that I brew, but I'd hate to waste good beer going forward, especially the ones that I intend to age...


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## manticle (3/8/09)

I always leave a bit of headspace in the neck of my bottles. CO2 is being produced so a little space won't lead to oxidation (at least as far as I'm aware).


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## Nick JD (3/8/09)

+1 on Manticle's advice. I leave the bottles uncapped for a few minutes so the residual carbon dioxide fills the headspace in the bottles. Put your ear to the bottles - they are fizzing off still.

Re: cooling beers for pouring - it takes a few more hours to cool a longneck than a stubbie. If you have slightly overcarbonated, that's no problem ... so long as you go 4 degrees or a little less. Try opening another longneck after 24 hours in the fridge.


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## bennyc (5/8/09)

Hmmm - this wasn't exactly what I was getting at :huh: I'm not worried about oxidation; the longnecks had been in the fridge for several weeks; and there was definitely headspace in both longnecks and stubbies (that left over by the displacement of the bottling wand). I'm more just curious as to whether anyone had any ideas as to why the longnecks were gushers while the stubbies were fine...

Thanks 

Ben


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