# 400-500 Litre Brewery



## Effect (23/11/10)

I have been throwing around the idea of opening up my own brewpub (in 5-6 years though mind you when I turn 30 and the micro scene is much bigger) and I have been thinking about how to build my brewery for this venture. Ideally I would like to buy a 500 litre microbrewery system from canada that is all shiny - but I think the money will be better spent on operating costs and making sure the business survives rather than having good kit to show off. Another reason why I am thinking of making my own system is because I most likely won't be able to brew on premise as the local council will probably not give me permission to produce beer within the city for whatever reason they can think of at the time. So production of the beer will most likely take place off site but be sold within the brewpub/brewcafe. The final reason for building my own gear is that it is going to be cheaper to do so and can produce the same quality beer - it won't matter what it looks like because no one will see it.

So how does one go about building a 400 - 500 litre system. I know that some of you have this size system or at least have friends with this size system - so your input would really help. I'll try and get in contact with the kooinda mob about how they built their equipment to start out with.

I can build a 50 litre system no worries, that is what I brew on at the moment, but I feel that it won't be as simple as making the equipment 10 times bigger. Basically I would just like some advice on what direction I should go. Some people have told me that I could build a 500 litre system for under $5000 (not including fermenters etc) then spend a fair whack on a good bottling line. So how would one build a $5000 brewery? What parts would get more money than others and what areas could I get away with making short cuts etc. What size fermenters should I aim at getting and how much is a fair price to be looking at one.

Ideally, I would want to brew on site (or atleast ferment on site - which may still be a possibility) and have the beer served straight from bright tanks - instead of having to keg every batch of beer. Your thoughts on this would be great.

I have been reading a few books on how to do this, 'open your own microbrewery/brew pub' from fabjob, 'brewing up a business' by sam calagione and the Brewers Association's Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery. From these books I have now got a realistic view on what it will be like to run a microbrewery - for me it is for the lifestyle and not for the money. I have just started my own business which will probably make more money than owning a brewpub, and hopefully I can have both business running at the same time to ease the financial pain of the first year or two.

So if you could please offer me some advice on building a 500 litre system, I will greatly appreciate it and you will also be helping a fellow brewer do things right from the beginning.

Cheers
Phil


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## bum (23/11/10)

AHB member "speedie" brews in that range and if you PM him about this thread I'm sure he'll be more than happy to share how he does it.


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## Silo Ted (23/11/10)

There's a very interesting blog from Pat Casey @ Absolute Homebrew who is in the process of building a 1700 litre setup. Take a squizz at that, theres lots of stuff that he discusses as he faces each challenge, such as getting stuff from OS, dealing with quarantine for second hand gear, speaking to Sydney water about waste runoff, local council approval for pollution, ATO requirements for excise etc. 

How to start a Brewery:
http://www.caseysbeer.com.au/?page_id=423

The Gear:
http://www.caseysbeer.com.au/?page_id=377

The Ongoing Blog: 
http://www.caseysbeer.com.au/


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## ekul (23/11/10)

Would milk vats work for anything? I see them on ebay all the time for between $200 and $2000. They're usually around 1000L, so maybe a little big. I saw an 800L mash tun on ebay a few months ago that went for $600 i think. It was stainless with what looked like wood on the outside. Here's a milk vat thats bidding @ $400 at the moment.

Also, if you want to go a little bigger here's a link to a cube for you --->


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/11/10)

Ex dairy equipment is just the go for most of the brewing side vessel's. They come up on Ebay occasionally. I have a 550L one if you are interested, would make a great mash tun.
GB


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## Effect (23/11/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Ex dairy equipment is just the go for most of the brewing side vessel's. They come up on Ebay occasionally. I have a 550L one if you are interested, would make a great mash tun.
> GB




If you still have it in 4 years then I might take you up on that offer. This is a long way away, but I need to get foundations done right and I don't mind taking the time to get things rolling the way they should.

Cheers for all the help so far guys (including the pms)
Phil


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## Trav (23/11/10)

Give us a call at Kooinda mate. Would be happy to show you around and have a chat. $5000??? that wont get you much mate. We can also talk about a few of the hidden costs. Whatever you think it will cost x by 10 and you might be close. Good luck and look forward to hearing from you at some stage. 
Trav 
www.kooinda.com.au


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## Silo Ted (23/11/10)

ekul said:


> Also, if you want to go a little bigger here's a link to a cube for you --->



That's gold. Super no-chill !


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## alowen474 (23/11/10)

Trav said:


> Give us a call at Kooinda mate. Would be happy to show you around and have a chat. $5000??? that wont get you much mate. We can also talk about a few of the hidden costs. Whatever you think it will cost x by 10 and you might be close. Good luck and look forward to hearing from you at some stage.
> Trav
> www.kooinda.com.au


+1
Accumulating gear gets pricey after a while. $5K will pay for the council application fees and license application along as you don't have to engage an independant consultant.
When you grab second hand gear from whatever source, they all need modifications and a good fabricator isn't that cheap. I emphasise GOOD.
Drop us a line when you are closer and I will have some gear for you.

Cheers


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## mkstalen (23/11/10)

Getting in on some of this might be useful.
http://www.graysonline.com/sale/56719/tank...ent-nsw-pick-up


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## jbirbeck (23/11/10)

get hold of the guys at Beard & Brau - top people and top beer...they have a 400l MT so will do two batches back to back to fill their 800l fermenter.


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## dent (23/11/10)

Strange how casey's beer makes the brewery build look about as complicated as organising a trip to the moon but then there are guys like http://www.happygoblin.com.au/ that seem to just fly under the radar - maybe it is just the whole 'better to ask forgiveness than permission' deal going on.


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## Effect (23/11/10)

Rooting Kings said:


> get hold of the guys at Beard & Brau - top people and top beer...they have a 400l MT so will do two batches back to back to fill their 800l fermenter.



meeting today with tanya...they have the brewery system that I would like - but yeah, its expensive!

Cheers
Phil


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## HoppingMad (23/11/10)

If modifying dairy tanks for fermenting make sure you get a conical bottom fabricated on the right degree spec angle. Consult the experts on this one I advise.

Get the angle wrong and the yeast won't drop down properly meaning it will be stuck in your 400L of beer causing infections.

Emerald Hill Brewery (ex-South Melbourne Craft Brewery) is a well known example of getting this minor detail wrong (they fabricated their own gear too) and wound up with a lot of autolysed beer. The beer actually won a lot of awards in the early days, but when turnover of the beer dropped, the stuff sat in the tanks and caused problems. Plenty of debate as to what happened where on their whole set-up but the angle of the cone was largely attributed as being the main issue.

Needless to say they are no longer with us as a going concern, which is unfortunate.

Hopper.


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## [email protected] (23/11/10)

I'm currently at the DA waiting stage for my brewery project which should take off mid 2011 if i get approval
www.sixstringbrewing.com.au

As others have said $5000 wont get you much at all, even with second hand gear. You can try your luck at www.fallsdell.com.au they have a lot of second hand tanks and brewery related gear.
Your best spending the 4 years you have spare in getting some investors onboard and buy a new brewery or a decent 2nd hand one from the US/Canada. You'll be surprised how many people would like to say they own a part of a brewery.

Feel free to contact me if you've got any questions, i'm more then happy to assist where i can.


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