# Are You A Skimmer?



## brendanos (30/5/09)

I've been trying to find out what exactly it is that accumulates on top of the wort at the beginning of the boil - you know the stuff, it forms a cap trapping heat and causing boilovers. A lot of American homebrew forums refer to this as the hot break, but I think they are somewhat confused, as to me the hot break is solids that precipitate in the wort and fall out of solution at the end of the boil. Perhaps this does form a portion of the hot break, but on it's own does not constitute THE hot break.

For anyone out there in the know, what exactly is it that you are removing if you skim this foam and discard it? I have traditionally left it in, then skimmed any brown scum that might accumulate and form semi-solids on top of the wort, though I had a particularly full kettle today and skimmed all foam as a precaution, though I am curious to know if this skimming process is removing any proteins/compounds that are important to healthy/good beer. Obviously it is very handy to reduce the risk of a boilover (particularly when you're kettle is full), and the spray bottle/fan technique hasn't always proved successful (in fact during my last brew, the spray bottle induced a boilover!). The krauts recommend skimming the dark green skum that accumulates when hops are added to reduce "harsh bitterness" (old wives tale or legitimate scientific procedure?), but I don't remember ever reading about the initial foam cap. Does removing this cap or leaving it in have any significant effect on the finished beer?

Comments, ideas, experiences, discussion, and philosophical debate are all welcome!


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## brendanos (30/5/09)

A final option and somewhat of a compromise could be to remove the foam at the beginning to prevent boilover, then add it back into the boil later on. That is, if there is anything useful in it!


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## Bribie G (30/5/09)

I think it must be similar to the break proteins, in the Urn, the boil breaks through the dirty grey looking foam cap then 'chases' it to the sides where it sticks to the sides and forms a grey brown ring, so I just leave it. Whirlfloc and a rest before cubing usually gives me sweet crystal clear wort into the cube. I've seen shots of Pilsner Urquell in the Kettle (in the old Michael Jackson series) and the surface of the boil looks like a frothy quicksand... I'm sure I spotted a couple of half submerged supermarket trolleys and a slime covered roadworks cone in there :blink:


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## Wrenny (30/5/09)

I always skim. I'm pretty sure it's not hot break, because the foam forms before boiling and before 'the hot break' when the proteins clump together.

I remember someone on this forum mentioning that their kids love eating it (provided they haven't added any first wort hops). So I decided to try it one day. It tasted pretty nice, very malty. And different every time depending on your grain bill.

So I took a clean bowl full of my skimmings, added enough sifted plain flour, baking powder (not baking soda) and a little bit of sugar. Made it into cake mix consistancy, baked it at 180 deg till it was cooked. Tasted pretty nice hot with some butter on it. I call it Malt Cake.


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## Muggus (30/5/09)

I pretty much always skim any really solid dirty looking scum off the surface. 
My pots usually almost full, so I have a tendancy of also skimming the white foam if it looks like it might cause a spill over. That's if i'm paying attention at the time! :blink: 

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea why I do it, and would also be very interested to know what results is may make in the long run. Possible experiment mayhaps?


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## Barry (30/5/09)

I have ben told/have heard that skimming can reduce head retention. No real proof that I remember. I skim some at the beginning to avoid boil overs but don't worry about it after that.


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## brendanos (30/5/09)

Barry said:


> I have ben told/have heard that skimming can reduce head retention. No real proof that I remember. I skim some at the beginning to avoid boil overs but don't worry about it after that.



That's essential the hunch that I have, but I have no hard evidence or scientific data to back it up!


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## matti (30/5/09)

If you boil for 15 minutes before you add the first lot of bitterness hops the proteins will not coagulate with hop polyphenols and won't precipitate with the hot break and carry hop resins with it.

It all depends on what beer you are making.

For Lager I skim.
For an ale Not really necessary.

90 minute boils with FWH and 60, 40.20 additions and cube hopping is the norm an little or non skimming.


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## Pumpy (30/5/09)

Brendanos,

I am a scum skimmer .

God dont you just love it 

I have to as I brew on the edge 40 litre batches in a 50 ltre pot  

I am into what ever floats pre hop addition I skim it 
bits of old husk, flys ,bees , hop socks what ever rubbish is floating in there i scum skim it .

the main thing is it removes bits of husk which may cause 'astringency' 

then when its all gone the hops go in and it reduces the potential for boiloves when the hops have settled .

If there was a degree in Scum skimming I would apply for it .

Anyway it makes you look as if you know what you are doing .

even if you dont :blink: 

Pumpy


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## Muggus (30/5/09)

Pumpy said:


> bits of old husk, flys ,bees , hop socks what ever rubbish is floating in there i scum skim it .
> 
> the main thing is it removes bits of husk which may cause 'astringency'


Good point Pumpy!
I tend to get the odd bit of grain husk in amongst the foamy scum on top of my wort. Probably does some good getting that out of the boil.


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## flattop (30/5/09)

My name is Flattop and i am a scum skimmer...

Why? Because the BIAB instructions told me to.
In todays brew i used hop plugs instead of pellets and then i found that i had hops in the scum so i had to resist the post hops skim.
I felt compromised ... was i doing something wrong? 
Will i go to Beermakers hell? I'm sure i will meet the makers of Swan and XXXX there....


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## Pumpy (30/5/09)

Muggus said:


> Good point Pumpy!
> I tend to get the odd bit of grain husk in amongst the foamy scum on top of my wort. Probably does some good getting that out of the boil.



yep Muggus I have a SS FB and my crush is fine lets a bit of junk through  

Pumpy


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## randyrob (30/5/09)

I used to skim until i heard it was the new black, i no longer skim anymore and my beer is still drinkable :icon_cheers:


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## chappo1970 (30/5/09)

flattop said:


> My name is Flattop and i am a scum skimmer...



I just knew you were one FT... <_< :lol: 



randyrob said:


> I used to skim until i heard it was the new black, i no longer skim anymore and my beer is still drinkable :icon_cheers:



Me too... Had a Guru Demi Brewing God tellin' me to leave it FARKIN' alone and let drop back in, apparently good for the yeasties? Hasn't been wrong by my calculations so far. :super: Dedecated Non Skimmer!

Chappo


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## clean brewer (30/5/09)

Impurities.....


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## pdilley (30/5/09)

Non skimmer, it soon breaks down into the boil. If it tastes very malty I'd be inclined to let it stay through the boil until I read a chemistry paper on why it is better to skim.

but malt cakes sound yum, school fundraiser thanks to brewing dads


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## Tony (30/5/09)

I skim!

I skim the crap off the top and put it in a plastic jug as i take it off.

The crap i colect smells awfull, it tastes awfull and it doesnt belong in the beer.

If i gave you a cup of smelly sticky break and grain residue and told you to put in your boiling brew...... what would you say?

i will take a guess...........


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## clean brewer (30/5/09)

Tony said:


> I skim!
> 
> I skim the crap off the top and put it in a plastic jug as i take it off.
> 
> ...



Impurities.... Same reason we skim Beef/Veal/Chicken/Fish Stocks and Jus and Soups... Its all the horrible shit coming out of the food.. :icon_vomit:


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## Tony (30/5/09)

Chappo would be too busy posting to skim the crap off his brew anyway  

Im with you Pumpy.......... if its not hops its not suposed to be there.

Mmmmmmm i need to build a propper scum skimmer 

bulk buy?


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## chappo1970 (30/5/09)

Tony said:


> Chappo would be too busy posting to skim the crap off his brew anyway



Oi... Shit lips <_< 

I resemble that remark!  

Bloody skimmers you just can't trust 'em can ya? Their like BIABers wanting to convert everyone... h34r: HERETICS!

Chappo


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## nabs478 (30/5/09)

BribieG said:


> I think it must be similar to the break proteins, in the Urn, the boil breaks through the dirty grey looking foam cap then 'chases' it to the sides where it sticks to the sides and forms a grey brown ring, so I just leave it.



I understand that it is protein in the beer and boil that supports the head and boil overs. So at the beggining of the boil, before all the hot break has broken, there is much more protein in the wort. This is why it is much easier to boil over at the begining. So that scummy stuff is not hot break....yet. But if you leave it, then it will turn into hot break, which is the preciptated protein and will no longer cause boilovers. I dont think it should make any difference to the final beer, but if you want to be a wild man like Pumpy and attempt a 40L brew in a 50L kettle, then skimming should help reduce your average clean up time.

I learnt some good brewing techniques from a friend of mine who always skims. Since I saw him do it I do it if its conveniant and I remember or when I want to make a big batch in a small pot...but usually dont bother.


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## Tony (30/5/09)

Chappo said:


> Oi... Shit lips <_<



Hey your the one drinking that crap you leave in the beer 

hehe

cheers :icon_cheers:


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## chappo1970 (30/5/09)

Tony said:


> Hey your the one drinking that crap you leave in the beer
> 
> hehe
> 
> cheers :icon_cheers:




:icon_drool2: mmmmm beery crap! :wub:


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## Tony (30/5/09)

Chappo said:


> :icon_drool2: mmmmm beery crap! :wub:



Your a serious worry Chappo!

Thats why we love ya


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## chappo1970 (30/5/09)

Tony said:


> Your a serious worry Chappo!
> 
> Thats why we love ya



Oh crap! look what I found in my trub FFS <_< 







:lol: 

Chappo


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## mje1980 (31/5/09)

I used to skim it, but then i stopped. Couldn't tell any difference. Now i never skim. I dont get a lot of scum on the top of the boil anyway.


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## Stuster (31/5/09)

mje1980 said:


> I used to skim it, but then i stopped. Couldn't tell any difference. Now i never skim.



Exactly.

Sure there are things in the scum that you don't want in your beer. That's fine, because you'll leave them behind in the kettle.


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## yardy (31/5/09)

I never skim, didn't even know there was such a loyal following of the said practice.....



out of curiosity, what do the _*DECENT*_ commercial breweries do with their skum ?


cheers


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## Pumpy (31/5/09)

they scum skim at Uley Ales 

"Just as the wort shows signs of coming to the boil the trub, or fragments of grain cases, are skimmed off the surface,"

http://www.uleybrewery.com/brewery_process.htm

Pumpy


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## Josh (31/5/09)

I usually skim to avoid boilovers. The dog loved licking it off the pavement on Friday.


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## Pumpy (31/5/09)

The Bodenatz brewery skims scum 

"During the first 10 to 15 minutes of the boil, a brown scummy skin may form over the surface of the boiling wort. This is the coagulated proteins of the hot-break, which we recommend you skim with a sieve or spoon, and discard. Many knowledgable brewers actually recommend waiting until this is skimmed before making the first hop addition to the kettle."


http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index...020505185355128

Pumpy


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## QldKev (31/5/09)

I'm a scummy skimmer, why not sure AndrewQld told me to!

QldKev


edit: typo


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## Muggus (31/5/09)

Tony said:


> I skim!
> 
> I skim the crap off the top and put it in a plastic jug as i take it off.
> 
> ...


Bahaha! :lol: 
Not so much at your post Tony, but at the Ari Gold reference. Had a very good hearty chuckle!
Cheers!


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## Mantis (31/5/09)

I skim, BIAB and no chill
A truely dedicated heretic <_< :lol:


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## Tony (31/5/09)

Mantis......... Skimmers are on the good side of the force, no chill is middle ground but that BIAB buisness...... dark side

your doomed!


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## Mantis (31/5/09)




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## pdilley (31/5/09)

Pumpy said:


> "During the first 10 to 15 minutes of the boil, a brown scummy skin may form over the surface of the boiling wort. This is the coagulated proteins of the hot-break, which we recommend you skim with a sieve or spoon, and discard. Many knowledgable brewers actually recommend waiting until this is skimmed before making the first hop addition to the kettle."
> 
> Pumpy




Hmm, mine is gray not brown. Guess I'l have to leave it in then


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## Back Yard Brewer (2/6/09)

Used to skim in the early days. Not anymore. 


BYB


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## Batz (2/6/09)

Ever tasted skimmed milk? Watery crap hey ?
So why stuff up your beer by skimming that too? I have skimmed but it's a waste of time unless your trying to avoid a boil over.






Batz


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## TidalPete (2/6/09)

Pumpy said:


> fragments of grain cases, are skimmed off the surface,"
> 
> Pumpy



If you had a filter under your falsie you wouldn't get that crap in your kettle Pumpy.  
Another non-skimmer here.

TP


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## raven19 (2/6/09)

Pumpy said:


> the main thing is it removes bits of husk which may cause 'astringency'



Agree with that, I find however with my esky false bottom (ss wire mesh) that not much gets thru when fly sparging, hence I dont bother at all.

2c.


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## brettprevans (2/6/09)

both Grain & Grape demos ive seen Chris do he always tells whoever is around to skim. for what its worth.

I found myself skimming for the first time sunday night and it was only a partial. gunky crap i recon. piss it off.


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## kabooby (2/6/09)

I used to skim but don't anymore. Recirculate your mash run off untill there is no grain husks coming through and they wont end up in the kettle. The nice white head you get at the start of the boil is protien and in my opinion you want this in your beer, after all it is protien that gives you head retention on your beer, why would you want to get rid of it.

If you get other junk in there than it's probably best to skim, but I would leave the white foam.

I haven't done any side by side comparisons, it just makes sense to me to leave the protein in there.


Kabooby


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## Back Yard Brewer (3/6/09)

Batz said:


> I have skimmed but it's a waste of time unless your trying to avoid a boil over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





About the only time I do it as well.

BYB


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## flattop (3/6/09)

I skimmed half heartedly last night, it tasted good and malty and it seemed to belong to the brew, i didn't take much off.
Interestingly i didn't get much material on the top of this brew, perhaps the material on top depends on the crush and type of grains?


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## hoohaaman (3/6/09)

I also skim now,never use to,but doing double batches it has the twofold effect of stopping boil overs and catching husks etc,that make it through the FB


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## Pumpy (3/6/09)

TidalPete said:


> If you had a filter under your falsie you wouldn't get that crap in your kettle Pumpy.
> Another non-skimmer here.
> 
> TP




Good idea Pete I will get some SS scourers stuffed under the false bottom 

Gee you Non Scum Skimmers are a boring bloody lot ''Your taking all the fun out of brewing .

I find Scum Skimming actually very theraputic 

plus if I didnt it would boil over.

I dont smoke ,surely I am allowed one harmless habit .

Pumpy


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## Mantis (3/6/09)

Pumpy said:


> Good idea Pete I will get some SS scourers stuffed under the false bottom
> 
> Gee you Non Scum Skimmers are a boring bloody lot ''Your taking all the fun out of brewing .
> 
> ...




Exactly Pumpy

I am a non smoker as well , but used to be one, SO, I have to find something to do with my hands h34r:


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## Pumpy (3/6/09)

Mantis said:


> Exactly Pumpy
> 
> I am a non smoker as well , but used to be one, SO, I have to find something to do with my hands h34r:



Me too , there you go Mantis ,

Scum skimming is a Placebo for ex smokers 

Pumpy


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## gwozniak (4/6/09)

Skim i say. It's just hot break plus crap like husks from the grains. Helps to stop boilovers and prevents the stuff settling down in the fermenter and affecting flavour. Don't know about it's effect on head retention but i've always skimmed and if anything i get too much head in my beers. Also shouldn't have any effect on yeast performance especially if you use nutrient.
But it would be nice to see a pro brewers perspective. I think with a proper set up they would use a vortex type thingo before they syphon off to their fermenters. This would leave a lot of the hot break (and cold break) behind. 
Having said that, anybody filter out the cold break after wort chill before syphoning off to the fermenter? Any effect on chill haze? I get a lot of chill haze.


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## pdilley (5/6/09)

In reading designing great beers--on all the things that can skew your IBUs up to 15% I'm now thinking about how skimming before pitching in the hops versus not skimming and pitching in the hops affects the isomeration in a a boil.
Would need to do a split batch boil skimming one and not the other and pitching in hops from the same packet and comparing the finishd beers to see if there is noticable differences.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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