# Ipa Recipe Questions



## Fermented (23/10/08)

Hello!

I've had quite a few James Squire IPA lately and rather like it, so was hoping to clone it. I've read a few recipes, but as a n00b am still trying to get my head around what does what, why and how as I am still searching for good references for the maths behind it, let alone understanding it. Yes, I would like to be a technical brewer initially and yes, I realise that there is art as well as tech in making a nice drop. 

I was thinking to make the clone from:
* Coopers IPA kit
* 250 g maltodextrine
* 500 g dextrose
* 250 g dry pale malt extract
* Safale S-04 yeast
* 23 litres.

However, after reading a lot more, I think that this will give too low an OG and may not produce enough flavour and aroma. I understand that IPAs have a 1060-1070+ OG and about a 1010-1015 FG. Is this correct?

Would it be better if I added a Coopers LME to it as well? The above recipe seems to rely too much on non-malt sugars and would perhaps make a less flavoursome result than something that is malt driven.

Or ditch the adjuncts listed above and throw in 2 x Coopers LME and maybe 12 g EKG steeped for 15 minutes? Or 12 g steeped and 12 g dry hopped halfway through the primary?

I've chosen the S-04 as it flocs rather well and will cope with the warmer temps that are expected here next week. The FV sits in a place that is 22-23C when the ambient is 26-32C. Yep - I nerded it out with a data logging DMM and a K-type thermocouple.

I'm trying to find that balance between maltiness and hoppiness (sp?) that makes IPA _special_ without making a beer that is too chewy, over-bodied or over-hopped.

If anyone could steer me in the right direction on this one, I would be most appreciative. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## ajoleary (26/10/08)

I made a recipe that was pretty much the same, except I put in 15gm of Goldings with a short 2 mins boil (I had a small amount left over from previous brew), and I also used an extra 250gm of LDM. Worked out to be 4.7% alcohol. My primary stayed at about 22 degC, then I racked it for a fortnight at about 20degC (give or take).

I'm a big fan of the Thomas Cooper's IPA, and this was one of the best brews I've made in 20 years of Home Brewing! If I was to do it again (which I intend to), I'll use more hops at various boiling times because I love a really hoppy IPA.

IMO if your not that keen on REALLY hoppy beer, is stick pretty close to this recipe and it'll be a great brew :icon_chickcheers: 

Bottom's up...
Azza


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## lokpikn (26/10/08)

you cant over hop a IPA. mmmmm Hoppy.

Could you not just use 2 cans of coopers IPA to 23 ltrs and add some late additions of goldings.


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## Gavo (26/10/08)

Fermented said:


> Or ditch the adjuncts listed above and throw in 2 x Coopers LME



Fermented, do you have a LHBS? If so, get your LDME form there rather than using Coopers boxes of LDME. My experience is that the Coopers boxes are $6.00 plus each while you can get it by the kilo at a LHBS for about $7.00 a kilo and it is a better product than the Coopers. 
Oh yes if you are thinking of using malt and hops, ditch the dex.  Your hops will balance out the malt and you will end up with a far better beer.  2c.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Fermented (26/10/08)

Thanks for the hints.

I had no intention of using the Coopers LDME, only the LME (the can of liquid malt extract). So far, I'm not a fan of the Coopers dry adjuncts based on a guess at quality (sell price, big stores margins, freight, distribution expense, etc). 

The toucan sounds good and easy, but I want to start playing with hops plugs and boil times to develop more complex flavour and aroma profiles.

I'm blessed with 2 LHBS - one fifteen minutes away and one about 35 minutes away. Depending on whether I want convenience or more comfortable advice and slightly lower prices, I go to the more distant one. 

Won't mention the name of either as they're not forum sponsors and that's just not fair to promote someone who isn't paying for the advertising and supporting the forum. /soapbox.

So back to the recipe... I've read a recipe which calls for 2.5 kg of light dry malt extract and (I think) 24g EKG in a 12g @ 30 mins, 12 g @ flame out, 15 mins steeping. Does this sound right? Is the 'correct for style' OG north of 1060?

You're right, I wasn't sure about the dex but put that in the recipe for more mouthfeel. However with higher levels of malt I think that would be accomplished. Any pointers on that one?

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Gavo (26/10/08)

Fermented said:


> So back to the recipe... I've read a recipe which calls for 2.5 kg of light dry malt extract and (I think) 24g EKG in a 12g @ 30 mins, 12 g @ flame out, 15 mins steeping. Does this sound right? Is the 'correct for style' OG north of 1060?



I'm not the Hop expert yet only just starting extract only myself, have the third in the fermenter ATM. Having said that Boiling the EKG for 30min will give you some bitterness to offset the extra malt around 4 IBU? going by beersmith, but at this time a lot of the flavor will be driven off. If you boil the second addition for the last 15 min you should get more flavor. Then another 12 grams at flameout for aroma. However, all that being said, I am sure that there are others here that have experience with the style you are after and will be able to give much better advice than I.



Fermented said:


> You're right, I wasn't sure about the dex but put that in the recipe for more mouthfeel. However with higher levels of malt I think that would be accomplished. Any pointers on that one?



The malt will definately give you more body/mouthfeel and a higher FG and better flavor. I have never used multidextrine but from what I read it gives body/mouthfeel but no extra flavor, good if this is what you are after. Dextrose gives a higher OG and higher ABV but no body and no flavor.

GO for it with starting boiling and adding hops, once you have done it you will see how easy it is. Just be careful though as next you will go to extract only and steeping grains, then where will that lead. I am already thinking partials.  

Cheers 
Gavo. :icon_cheers:


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## buttersd70 (26/10/08)

Without actually crunching the specific numbers, of the top of my head gavo's advice on the hops sounds about right.
As far as maltodextrin is concerned, if you are going to ditch the dex and go with malt, the maltodextrin can either be cut down or cut out all together, because the malt should leave enough body on it's own that the maltodex is no longer needed....particularly for the higher OG beers. If you do end up going to 1060, all malt will end up within a point or 2 difference at fg when compared to a 1060 that had 500g dex and 250g maltodextrin included in it.


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## Fermented (28/10/08)

Thanks for the advice on the hops, Gavo. Greatly appreciated. I'll give that a shot. 

And thanks to you too butters. 

OK - How about I ditch the malto and go with Coopers IP Kit, 2 x 1.5 kg Coopers light liquid malt extract and Gavo's hops advice? I think it will give a pretty decent OG, sound bitterness and aroma and a moderately high alcohol. 

I guess then that the only concern would be if the S-04 can take that kind of high ABV punishment.

Any ideas?

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Gavo (28/10/08)

Looking at the numbers the can of Coopers IPA and two 1.5 kg cans of coopers light liquid malt will give you a SG of approximately 1066 and a FG of around 1017 with the S04 yeast, ABV 6.4%. With that amount of Malt and the approximate FG you may want to consider upping the hop additions to 15 grams per addition in order to offset the malt.

I have not used the S04 and therefore can't give any advice there.


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## Fermented (29/10/08)

Thanks for the extra advice Gavo!

I will do some checking on the S-04 and then hopefully make something that tastes reasonable. 

Again, many thanks!

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Pointy71 (30/10/08)

Fermented said:


> Hello!
> 
> I've had quite a few James Squire IPA lately and rather like it, so was hoping to clone it. I've read a few recipes, but as a n00b am still trying to get my head around what does what, why and how as I am still searching for good references for the maths behind it, let alone understanding it. Yes, I would like to be a technical brewer initially and yes, I realise that there is art as well as tech in making a nice drop.
> 
> ...



Hi,
I'm looking at making an IPA with the Coopers IPA, 1.5KG of Coopers Liquid Malt and 50g of Fuggles hops. I'm not sure about the best way to do a stove top boil / simmer. Should I boil 2lts of water then add all of the malt and throw in half the hops and boil for 20 minutes and throw the remainder of the hops in once the fermenter is full? any suggestions much appreciated.

Thanks


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## buttersd70 (30/10/08)

A dozen differant ways of going about it. Personally, I would add enough malt to the water to give about the same predicted OG as the full batch will be once everything is added, boil for 15 minutes with 15-25g of hops, add the remainder as soon as it comes off the stove, and then chuck the lot into the fermenter.

But ask 6 people how they would do it and you'll probably get 6 defferant responses.


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## QIK86 (12/11/08)

Fermented said:


> Thanks for the advice on the hops, Gavo. Greatly appreciated. I'll give that a shot.
> 
> And thanks to you too butters.
> 
> ...



I know I may be too late for this one, but after reading, just thought I'd let you know the S-04 should be fine in that brew. I recently did an IPA using 2 cans of Coopers Real Ale, 1kg LLME, 200g LDME (which should give a very similar ABV to your planned IPA) and it took it no problems whatsoever. 

By the way, I must say thanks to Butters for suggesting the Real Ale toucan idea for that IPA I made. It is now an absolutely beautiful drop after 3 weeks in the bottle. 

Recipe was as follows:

2 x cans Coopers Real Ale
1kg LLME
200g LDME
15g Fuggles @ 15mins
15g Fuggles @ 5mins
15g Fuggles dry hopped into primary after fermentation slowed

(there may have been a few extra pellets fall into the boil somewhere along the way...  But you get the idea.)


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## RobboMC (12/11/08)

On the hop additions I'm with gavo, go for the 15g per addition with all that malt.

Last year I made a Muntons IPA 2 can kit and added an extra can of Coopers LLME.
I used 15g @ 45 min boil to balance the extra can of malt, plus 15g steeped for 10 min for aroma.
All worked great.

Also, you may find the liquid extract doesn't ferment out as much as you think and the abv will be lower,
my 4.5kg extract batch only came out at 5.5%abv.

Consider pitching 2 sachets of yeast with all that malt.

Yes, there's a dozen different ways of doing it, that's the wonder of home brewing.
Find your own methods and ways and make your brew unique.


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## buttersd70 (12/11/08)

Still waiting to hear from coopers about lme vs dme fermentability....

Robbo, one thing I do know, is that Muntons liquids don't ferment as much as some others...apparantly, at least according to discussion on some of the american forums, they're designed more with the British market in mind, and are more dextrinous than many other brands (by design). Personally I think thats a good thing...

Qik, glad you posted, I'd forgotten about that recipe. Glad it turned out well. I thought at the time that it would be way too bitter for my tastes (but then again, that doesn't take much - i'm no IPA fan B) ), but that was what you were after.


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## Fermented (13/11/08)

All looking good... and as you can see in my sig file, the IPA is still pending. Am trying to rush out a few quick ones so that I can give Christmas cheer to my visitors over the break. 

Is there any reason that Fuggles is the hop of choice? I've nothing against them - heck - I have my 'L' plates on when it comes to hop types, but I have some vague recollection of EKG being the hop of choice for IPA... either that or I have my wires well crossed.

Butters: Might be an idea to give Coopers a call. I can't say I've e-mailed them but on phoning them I got Frank (question about tetrahops in the cerveza kit) and got a straight answer, straight away. Best part of two minutes.

And back on topic... am still mulling over the final recipe, but doubtless will throw something down in a week or two. And pray that I don't throw it back up. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## buttersd70 (13/11/08)

Fermented said:


> Is there any reason that Fuggles is the hop of choice? I've nothing against them - heck - I have my 'L' plates on when it comes to hop types, but I have some vague recollection of EKG being the hop of choice for IPA... either that or I have my wires well crossed.
> 
> Butters: Might be an idea to give Coopers a call. I can't say I've e-mailed them but on phoning them I got Frank (question about tetrahops in the cerveza kit) and got a straight answer, straight away. Best part of two minutes.



Yeah, I might just call them, would be easier.
As for the hops....maybe qik can confirm, but if I remember correctly, he had some fuggles already to play with.....but either fuggles, or ekg, or a combo of the two would work. They work _really _well together. Some people don't like fuggle for some wierd reason, but I love it.


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## Cube (13/11/08)

QIK86 said:


> 2 x cans Coopers Real Ale
> 1kg LLME
> 200g LDME
> 15g Fuggles @ 15mins
> ...



Can the LLME and LDME in that recipe be subbed for 1kg of LDME?
Damn shame, real ale was $8-60 at wollies on Tuesday. 

Might give this a go next with 30 grms each Amarillo and Cascade


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## buttersd70 (14/11/08)

Cube said:


> Can the LLME and LDME in that recipe be subbed for 1kg of LDME?
> Damn shame, real ale was $8-60 at wollies on Tuesday.
> 
> Might give this a go next with 30 grms each Amarillo and Cascade



Found it....I knew I'd worked on this recipe  

The original as I gave it to qik is here
The fuggle was used because he'd done a few previous brews with us hops, wanted something english, and already had fuggle. He subbed LME in that quantity, because he had some....anyway, the 1kg LME + 200 dme that quik used equates to the same as 1kg dme anyway, so it's a much of a muchance.

US hops should work OK if thats what you like.


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## Fermented (18/11/08)

After a lot of thinking and being time to bottle the current ferment, I'm going ahead with the IPA.

Here's what I have decided on:

* Cooper IPA goo
* 2 kg bulk LDME
* S-04

Hopping as:
* 15 g Fuggles @ 20 mins
* 15 g Fuggles @ 5 mins
* 15 g EKG @ flameout.
Relying on the goo for bittering, hopping schedule to enhance flavour and aroma.

I'm going to go bottle the current one now... am out of PET caps so it looks like it will be about 70 x 330 ml. Ugh. I will check back in for any "Hell no! You're doing it wrong!" posts after. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Gavo (18/11/08)

What is your boil volume? 330ml x 70 I am guessing a batch volume of 23 lt. I would probably increase the first hop addition to 30 min in order to increase the IBU as 2kg of LDME will add a lot of malty flavor an sweetness.

Cheers
Gavo.


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## Fermented (18/11/08)

Yes, it will be a 23 litre batch. 

However, the reference to 70 little 'uns is for the load about to exit the fermenter. Am just waiting for a callback from the missus to see if the right sized giant plastic storage box is at her shop so she can bring some home before I start bottling. I'm still ever so edgy about doing all glass bottling for now, especially after seeing some of the pics in the current bottle bomb thread. I figure the thicker LDPE walls of a storage box will be more likely to contain shrapnel than my usual cardboard crates. 

The IPA will most likely be in PET.

Thanks for the hint to increase the first hopping to 30 minutes. I shall give it a shot. If it all works out well, then it's on to the espresso hop extraction experiment.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Fermented (18/11/08)

Hmmm - the edit button has disappeared. 

The boxes aren't LDPE, they're PP (polypropylene). D'Oh! Slightly better ballistic resistance. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## bum (20/5/09)

How did this turn out, Fermented?

I'm looking to take off my IPA training wheels in a few brews' time and would love to find a good K&B IPA recipe.


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