# Brisbane Town Water Ph



## The King of Spain (19/12/06)

Can anyone in Brisbane tell me what the pH of our water is? I've been told by a local brewer that its a good policy to add a teaspoon of Calcium Sulphate but would a bit more info than a single comment.


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## colinw (19/12/06)

Brisbane water pH is generally around 7.9 +/- 0.1

Our water is relatively low in Calcium, so you need to add some Calcium Sulphate or Calcium Chloride for the mash to work optimally. An addition of 1g of Calcium Sulphate per 10 litres of strike water will bring you up to the recommended 50ppm calcium in the mash.

My typical water treatment regime for pale beers is :-

1. Dechlorinate with a pinch of sodium metabisulphite. According to my pH meter, this drops the pH from 7.9 to about 7.
2. Drop pH to 5.5 - 5.8 range with phosphoric acid. Around 2ml per 10 litres.
3. Mix in 1g to 2g calcium sulphate per 10 litres for ales, 1g to 2g calcium chloride for lagers.

When I started doing all of the above, the quality of my beers improved markedly. Without the sodium met I was getting nasty chlorophenol flavours. Without the acids I was getting astringency.

For dark beers, you can cut back significantly on the acid in the mash strike water, as the dark grains add the desired acidity. It is best to still acidify the sparge water to below 6, however.

Note: Calcium Sulphate will not dissolve (dissociate) until the pH is below about 6. If you put it in untreated Brisbane tap water it will just sit on the bottom doing nothing. If you're not adding acid to your water, the only way to dissolve the calcium sulphate is via direct addition to the mash, where the naturally acidic mash environment will do the trick.

Brisbane City Council put water reports on their website here.

The most recent report is attached.

cheers,
Colin 

View attachment august_2006_chemical_analysis.pdf


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## The King of Spain (19/12/06)

Thanks Colin

I'm off to mitre 10?

Cheers


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## The King of Spain (19/12/06)

Mitre 10 did not work for me. I can get my hands on Calcium Sulphate easy enough but phosphoric acid? Where you source yours?


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## Jye (19/12/06)

This damn thread has resulted in me wasting my afternoon learning about water chemistry :angry:  

I think I have it figured out and will post an example later on tonight so someone can confirm Im doing it correctly.

Cheers
Jye


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## Coodgee (19/12/06)

you can get phosphoric acid from a hydroponics shop but it's probably not food grade.


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## Ross (19/12/06)

***Viva La Tank water***  

Cheers Ross...


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## Jye (19/12/06)

deaves said:


> Can anyone in Brisbane tell me what the pH of our water is? I've been told by a local brewer that its a good policy to add a teaspoon of Calcium Sulphate but would a bit more info than a single comment.



Hey Deaves,

Ive had a fun afternoon of reading, mainly the chapter on "Understanding the Mash pH" but also at a few forums. From the water analysis Colin posted Brisbane's water can be broken down to a few key points that are important to brewing;

Bicarbonate = Alkalinity (as CaCO3) - 83 or HCO3 ppm *101*
Calcium = Calcium Hardness (as CaCO3) - 47 or Ca ppm *18.8*
Magnesium = Magnesium Hardness (as CaCO3) - 60 or Mg ppm *14.5*
Chloride = ppm *70*
Sodium = ppm *40*
Sulfate = Sulphur ppm *19*

The Magnesium, Sulfate and Chloride are all with in the brewing range and the bicarbonate level is excellent for brewing amber coloured beers, this is also shown in the nomograph by the red line. The calcium is below the brewing range of 50-150 ppm and the sulfate should also be between 50-150 ppm for a normally bittered beer. Adding a teaspoon of Calcium Sulphate or 5g to 36L (this is my starting volume) of brew water will increase the calcium to 51 ppm and the sulfate to 96 ppm and drop the pH slightly allowing lighter coloured beers to be mashed in the correct pH range (blue line on the nomograph).

In other words adding a teaspoon of calcium sulphate is beneficial


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## Jye (19/12/06)

Ross said:


> ***Viva La Tank water***
> 
> Cheers Ross...



Hey Ross, if you didnt already know it adding the teaspoon of table salt gets you right into the range for sodium and chloride, both good things  


Sodium (Na+1)
Atomic Weight = 22.9
Equivalent Weight = 22.9
Brewing Range = 0-150 ppm.
Sodium can occur in very high levels, particularly if you use a salt-based (i.e. ion exchange) water softener at home. In general, you should never use softened water for mashing. You probably needed the calcium it replaced and you definitely don't need the high sodium levels. *At levels of 70 - 150 ppm it rounds out the beer flavors, accentuating the sweetness of the malt.* But above 200 ppm the beer will start to taste salty. The combination of sodium with a high concentration of sulfate ions will generate a very harsh bitterness. Therefore keep at least one or the other as low as possible, preferably the sodium.

Chloride (Cl-1)
Atomic Weight = 35.4
Equivalent Weight = 35.4
Brewing Range = 0-250 ppm.
The chloride ion also *accentuates the flavor and fullness of beer.* Concentrations above 300 ppm (from heavily chlorinated water or residual bleach sanitizer) can lead to mediciney flavors due to chlorophenol compounds.


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## Ross (19/12/06)

Jye said:


> Hey Ross, if you didnt already know it adding the teaspoon of table salt gets you right into the range for sodium and chloride, both good things



Jye, Glad to hear there's some scientific reason to back up my use of it in every brew B) 
I just add it because i like the results  ...

cheers Ross...


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## The King of Spain (20/12/06)

Thanks all


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## Wortgames (20/12/06)

Jye, what is that diagram? Am I right in guessing you added the red and blue lines based on Brissie water? If so, where can I get a 'blank' copy?

I'd love to figure out what the hell I should be doing with Melbourne water!

I can get a grasp on most things, but for some reason chemistry just goes right over my head every bloody time.


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## Jye (20/12/06)

You can get a blank copy at the end of chapter 15.3.

Chemistry isnt my strong point either but John Palmer explains it pretty well, I also read the chapter twice. I found a great thread on the green board and will post it here when I find it again.

Edit - Here is the thread, Palmer (jjpalmer) is active on the green board and a search on residual alkalinity will bring up some more thread.


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## Crazy (20/12/06)

colinw said:


> Brisbane water pH is generally around 7.9 +/- 0.1
> 
> Our water is relatively low in Calcium, so you need to add some Calcium Sulphate or Calcium Chloride for the mash to work optimally. An addition of 1g of Calcium Sulphate per 10 litres of strike water will bring you up to the recommended 50ppm calcium in the mash.
> 
> ...



I started adding 5mm per 45l of lactic acid to my strike water and found this dropped my ph to about 5.7ish.

The differance this made to my beer was huge and we can easly pick the brews that we forget to adjust. I will try the sodium met and one of the sulfates next time though as I can still taste something in every one of my beers that is just not quite right.

Derrick


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## Wortgames (20/12/06)

Thanks for the links Jye, I'll try to get stuck into them.


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## Snow (20/12/06)

A couple of years ago Hoops provided bulk quanities of ortho-phosphoric acid that he sourced from a dairy supplier. It was in extremely concentrated form (I only need 0.5ml in 1L to sanitise by fermenter) . Does anyone know whether these sorts of products would contain surfactants that might harm the head of my beer if I add it to the mash as an acidifier? 

Also, when you guys add 1-2ml of phosphoric acid, what strength are you talking about?

Cheers - Snow


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## Jye (20/12/06)

Snow, I got some phos acid from tidalpete about a year ago and it foams very slightly when shaking the fermenter. Mine is orange in colour which makes me think it does because I have also seen clear phos acid.

I better just PM Pete


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## bindi (20/12/06)

I was typing a long PP style responce :blink: to what I use just up the road from Brissie, well 100km, but bugger it <_< I use a little Phos and a little calcium sulphate and touch of salt to hit my Ph, and have done so for most beer this year.
Thanks to a local water profile I got from [I think it was?] Tidalpete last year.

And I use the orange phos also.


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## TidalPete (20/12/06)

Jye said:


> Snow, I got some phos acid from tidalpete about a year ago and it foams very slightly when shaking the fermenter. Mine is orange in colour which makes me think it does because I have also seen clear phos acid.
> 
> I better just PM Pete



Just answered your PM Jye & hope you are ok with my response?
Batz may be better qualified than I am to respond to your query, as he is the original "phos man" as far as my experience with phos goes.
All I know is that it works like a charm with one drop (More or less) of dishwashering detergent added to the 2ml phos\1000ml water solution. :super: 

:beer:


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## Screwtop (20/12/06)

Why we are answering the Bris Town Water thread is beyond me, so I may as well add my 2c worth. The local Council water profile lists water PH at 7.8. For pales I prepare local water at PH6.3 using citric acid and Calcium Sulphate, which results in a mid mash (30Min) of around PH 5.4.


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## Jye (21/12/06)

It sounds like everyone adjusts their pH by adding acid of some kind. Does anyone adjust their residual alkalinity as described by John Palmer which doesnt require the addition of acid only salts?


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## Snow (21/12/06)

TidalPete said:


> Just answered your PM Jye & hope you are ok with my response?
> Batz may be better qualified than I am to respond to your query, as he is the original "phos man" as far as my experience with phos goes.
> All I know is that it works like a charm with one drop (More or less) of dishwashering detergent added to the 2ml phos\1000ml water solution. :super:
> 
> :beer:



So, Pete from your answer, can I assume you mean you add detergent for cleaning and sanitising, not for acidifying the mash?

Jye, mine is orange as well and slightly foams up when I shake it. I'm not very comfortable with using it in the mash...

- Snow


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## Jye (21/12/06)

Snow said:


> Jye, mine is orange as well and slightly foams up when I shake it. I'm not very comfortable with using it in the mash...



Pete assured me that it doesnt contain a surfactant so it is safe to use in the mash. Im going to try not using it and use salts as explained by John Palmer.


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## TidalPete (21/12/06)

Snow said:


> So, Pete from your answer, can I assume you mean you add detergent for cleaning and sanitising, not for acidifying the mash?



That's what I meant to convey Snow, sorry for the misunderstanding.  
THBOMK there is no surfactant in the phos that I get through Batz.
Rightly or wrongly, I adjust my mash water with white vineger which works ok for me. I adjust my local water to pH5.6 for pales & as required for darker beers.

Screwtop,
Was that pH of 6.3 a typo??? We are not that far apart & use the same town water.

:beer:


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## colinw (21/12/06)

I use 85% w/w phosphoric acid which I obtained via BABB. I'm not sure where the BABB storekeeper got it from. I think our club store still has a few bottles in stock.

cheers,
Colin


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## Jye (22/12/06)

Hey Colin,

I found a post from John Palmer Here that might be of interest since you are adding Ca to get you ppm up but the the phos acid is stripping it back out.



> Note: I don't advocate using phosphoric acid to the mash, becuase it pulls calcium out of solution, and you need to be able to test the pH. I recommned using Hydrochloric or Lactic because you adjust the pH without affecting the Hardness/alkalinity species.


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## colinw (22/12/06)

Interesting. I use it to adjust my water to a known pH before mashing in, rather than the more 'hit or miss' approach of addition to the mash.

Interestingly my mash efficiency is always better with Calcium salts than without - around 72% with, more like 68% without.

I will not use lactic acid, except in certain styles like witbier, as I'm somewhat sensitive to its flavour and can taste it in the final product. Hydrochloric sounds like the way to go, I'll have to try it.


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