# Super simple PID controller build/wiring



## nathanvonbeerenstein (2/12/15)

Hi,
Trolled around a bit, but couldn't find any simple wiring diagrams for a PID controller with a probe and the necessary in and out/or heat and cool power sockets. I want to buy OR build one much like the KegKing temp controller, but with a PID controller instead of the STC style one.
Here's the keg King one:
View attachment 85143


Long story short, assembled a herms type system using the keg King controller with the PID but it doesn't learn like a PID does so couldn't hold a stable temperature. I plan to have it control the element in my hlt as the mash recirculates through a 1/2" 50ft chiller in the hlt with the probe at the end of the wort return tube.
It will be mounted the the brew stand I have in the works stylised after the Brew Magic two-tier systems.
Any helps appreciated and all wiring will be checked by an electrician (he works in alarm systems so may not be versed in what I'm trying to achieve I think).

Best and cheapest recommendations much appreciated!

CHEERS!
Nathan


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## gap (2/12/15)

Why do you need cooling in a Herms system and how do you expect to cool the hot wort??


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## SBOB (2/12/15)

gap said:


> Why do you need cooling in a Herms system and how do you expect to cool the hot wort??


pretty sure they are planning to use the chiller coil as their herms coil

Run the wort through it (instead of water) while it's immersed in their HLT


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (2/12/15)

Apologies, should have been more clear when writing this.
I don't have a need or plan for cooling and after further research seems impossible with a simple build like this.
Basically, I just want a temp probe and an AU plug to plug the 2200w element into, and have the PID turn that on and off.
Cheers


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (2/12/15)

SBOB said:


> pretty sure they are planning to use the chiller coil as their herms coil
> 
> Run the wort through it (instead of water) while it's immersed in their HLT


Spot on! Already got 50ft of perfectly good heat exchanger at my fingertips so using that!


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## mr_wibble (3/12/15)

So exactly what sort of build did you want?

The most complex part of the circuit is the wiring for the LCD display, and some buttons/knob for setting the temperature.
I guess an Up/Down button combo would be fairly simple. Using a smarter LCD (with say SPI comms) reduces the wiring significantly.

I built my own from scratch, it's involved, but not difficult.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (3/12/15)

Basic as hell temperature controller unit:
-1 sestos d1s-Vr-240
-1 power lead to power the unit 
-1 ssr with heatsink
-1 output for the 2200w element

I've got all the components as of last night, just need to find the right project housing/junction box from Jaycar and to assemble it.
Does anyone have a wiring diagram for this build?


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## Benn (4/12/15)

This is from an AHB thread (that I can't find again) it might help.
I'm not an electrician, seek professional input/advice


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (12/12/15)

Benn said:


> This is from an AHB thread (that I can't find again) it might help.
> I'm not an electrician, seek professional input/advice
> 
> 
> ...


Legend!
Thanks mate, that was exactly what I was after!
BUT....
As with most projects undertaken by brewers, it quickly escalated and after research have decided to go all out on a control panel,
Two PID's
Two pump controls
Switchs for almost everything and xlr pt100 probes

Thinking this wiring diagram but with illuminated 6 terminal DPDT rocker switches in place of the button switches:



Anyone see any issue with this diagram, such as the substitution of the auber push button switches for eBay rocker switches (rated at 240v 15a)? If not, how would I wire them vs the ones in the wiring diagram?



Thanks for the help all [emoji4]


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## booargy (12/12/15)

Do not wire the E-stop like that. An RCD is not for this purpose.


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/12/15)

booargy said:


> Do not wire the E-stop like that. An RCD is not for this purpose.


I will repeat exactly what he said.

Put in a proper emergency stop switch

E-stop is emergency stop...not Earth stop


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## SBOB (12/12/15)

as above.. that E-stop isn't right. 

Also, ground your SSR


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## Logan_01 (12/12/15)

Why don't you just put the element on/off switch in series with the SSR control. That would free up your contactor to use with the E-Stop to drop the mains. 
What you have with your e-stop at the moment is more of an earth leakage test button. You could have a button to do this as well as an e-stop if you wanted. Keep in mind that how it is drawn now is with 2 x 1K 1W resistors. At 240V this is 120mA and 28.8W. If it fails to trip the resistors will quickly smoke.


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## Pokey (12/12/15)

Logan_01 said:


> Why don't you just put the element on/off switch in series with the SSR control. That would free up your contactor to use with the E-Stop to drop the mains.
> What you have with your e-stop at the moment is more of an earth leakage test button. You could have a button to do this as well as an e-stop if you wanted. Keep in mind that how it is drawn now is with 2 x 1K 1W resistors. At 240V this is 120mA and 28.8W. If it fails to trip the resistors will quickly smoke.


Apart from not being a legal way to isolate the element you'll always have voltage on the element if you use the SSR to isolate. Put a contactor or switch on the power, job done


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## TheWiggman (12/12/15)

I'm gonna be 'that bloke'. Work out what you need from advice here or elsewhere online, then run everything by an electrician regarding the wiring. Then follow their advice, and get them to approve it before you plug it in. That way you're doing it legally and won't hurt yourself or burn down the house now or in the future.


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## Logan_01 (12/12/15)

Pokey said:


> Apart from not being a legal way to isolate the element you'll always have voltage on the element if you use the SSR to isolate. Put a contactor or switch on the power, job done


You are using it to'Control' not to 'Isolate' ... there is a difference. You are correct that you cant legaly 'isolate' through a solid state device, but they can be used for functional(control) switching.
What exactly do you consider the issue with having voltage on the element. The current would be tiny. The only let through would be pico amps from the SCR's / Triacs and pico amps from any snubber circuit in the SSR. 
Regardless the insulation of the element would stop you comming into contact with the voltage present anyway. Or does everyone insulate there stock pots from ground and not touch them while their heating?

I don't know anywhere it says you legally need an E-stop anyway(might be wrong as im mainly farmiliar with AS3000, which is mainly for fixed installations).
However where an E-stop is used it must not re-energise the cct upon release of the estop. Gets tricky ay.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (13/12/15)

Thanks for the input fellas, definately not going to put together before I have all the wrinkles ironed out and have already arranged for an experienced sparky to check it, and the components, over before even thinking about plugging it in.

I should have mentioned I did not make this diagram and pulled it of the American forums. 
for changes to that diagram. I'm adding a residual current device at the start of the circuitry and installing the emergency stop switch to switch off all power to the board rather than relying on it controlling other components to isolate it for me.
Am I correct in simply having the switch in series at the start of the hot lead to break the circuit all together as I was planning on doing?

As for the complete and mechanical isolation of the element: as per the diagram posted, I plan to have the switch control a mechanical contactor that's normally open when no current runs through it. That way, there is a mechanical isolation when the element switch is off, as well as when the circuit is broken via e-stop, RCD, mains fuse box or inline fuses etc etc etc.
Would this be appropriate?

Cheers for the input


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## Ditchnbeer (13/12/15)

Just reading thru this, there seems to be alot of unfamiliarity with electrical wiring in your words. As Wiggman said, pls find a sparky for advice on how to go about this, sometimes forums arent the best method of info especially regarding electricity.Yes, I am an A Grade so I will add here:
An emergency stop switch is usually used to prevent sudden danger - like turning off a conveyor belt before something rolls of it, etc etc. Not for isolation. Keep it simple, just fit a main switch for the whole panel. All my external devices (element, sensors, pumps) are connected via sockets on the bottom of my panel so i can isolate / disconnect for cleaning, moving it, or not in use etc.
This mechanical isolation business sounds unnecessary & over-complicated.

If you in Melbourne I can assist, PM me.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (13/12/15)

Ditchnbeer said:


> Just reading thru this, there seems to be alot of unfamiliarity with electrical wiring in your words. As Wiggman said, pls find a sparky for advice on how to go about this, sometimes forums arent the best method of info especially regarding electricity.Yes, I am an A Grade so I will add here:
> An emergency stop switch is usually used to prevent sudden danger - like turning off a conveyor belt before something rolls of it, etc etc. Not for isolation. Keep it simple, just fit a main switch for the whole panel. All my external devices (element, sensors, pumps) are connected via sockets on the bottom of my panel so i can isolate / disconnect for cleaning, moving it, or not in use etc.
> This mechanical isolation business sounds unnecessary & over-complicated.
> 
> If you in Melbourne I can assist, PM me.


Thanks mate, appreciate the offer and info.

As I've said a few times already: I won't be doing anything without fully understanding and the go-ahead by an electrician. Im simply learning at this point and wrapping my head around things. Asking questions helps and I'm fully aware of the dangers electricity poses.

Couldn't i just use the e-stop as that main switch you mentioned At the start of the circuit?


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (13/12/15)

So would anyone be able to illustrate the best way to incorporate these into a control box to keep it simple and safe with a wiring diagram?

-Control box power (using e-stop/mushroom dpst switch since I have it?)
-Sestos PID w/ pt100
-40a ssr
-Alarm buzzer
-Element switch (with or without contractor to switch power to element?)
-Din mounted residual current device
-240v pump socket w/switch
-1 Rex-c100 purely as a thermometer (ie controlling nothing)

Would rather go to the electrician with a plan and an idea of wiring.
Cheers


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## mofox1 (13/12/15)

Assuming you've done your research, but make sure you have completely gone thru the electric brewery guides. Read through and understand the American power version, keeping in mind the supply differences, then read through the 240v county supplement.

It's all there, in fairly decent detail, and send to be a good design. Create a cut down version to suit your needs and run it past your sparkly mate.

Can't see on the mob app version your location... If in melbs you're more than welcome to come round for a chat and a beer.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (14/12/15)

mofox1 said:


> Assuming you've done your research, but make sure you have completely gone thru the electric brewery guides. Read through and understand the American power version, keeping in mind the supply differences, then read through the 240v county supplement.
> 
> It's all there, in fairly decent detail, and send to be a good design. Create a cut down version to suit your needs and run it past your sparkly mate.
> 
> Can't see on the mob app version your location... If in melbs you're more than welcome to come round for a chat and a beer.


Any free time seems to be research at the moment!
Majority of inspiration comes from the electric brewery but I plan to avoid the somewhat unnecessary and complicated additions like a key switch, volt/amp meter and more than the one element I will have (kettle is gas fired). I'll also be sticking to my $1 magnetic digital timer too rather than an Omega panel mount one.
I'm basically trying to make a low cost build along those lines. No auber instruments here, only eBay and Jaycar parts.

If anyone knows of a helpful diagram it would be most appreciated, or in the alternative, id be happy to pay someone substantially more qualified than myself to drum one up to suit my needs and parts.

Is it as simple as removing the parts I don't need and the wiring that powers them when modifying the electric brewery?

Appreciate the generous offer mofox, still in the planning/buying stages at the moment but might take you up on that if I don't make any progress! 
Cheers!


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/12/15)

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Majority of inspiration comes from the electric brewery but I plan to avoid the somewhat unnecessary and complicated additions like a key switch, volt/amp meter


You wouldn't need any of them. Where on earth did you get those ideas from


To me it sounds like you dont really know what you want, and you are making things rather complicated. You are much better to keep it nice and simple to begin with.

I am not even sure what you actually want anymore.

I am guessing you want some sort of temp controlled brewing setup with bells and whistles....


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (14/12/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You wouldn't need any of them. Where on earth did you get those ideas from
> 
> 
> To me it sounds like you dont really know what you want, and you are making things rather complicated. You are much better to keep it nice and simple to begin with.
> ...


Read again mate, I said I DONT want those things haha

I'm trying to make a controller like The Electric Brewery controller WITHOUT the extra bells and whistles and with only 1 PID controlling a single element.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/12/15)

Sorry, typo. I actually meant "without" the bells and whistles


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## mofox1 (14/12/15)

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Is it as simple as removing the parts I don't need and the wiring that powers them when modifying the electric brewery?


Of course. There isn't anything magic about the E.B design - just cut out the stuff you don't need. it really can be as simple as PID->SSR->Contactor->Element with a switch and a light or two.

I probably spent 6+ months researching and gathering parts before I put my hand to any tools, but I'm ocd as hell about knowing everything I can about stuff before I do it...

If you haven't got an enclosure yet, I just bought one of these for my grain mill power/controller, should be deep enough for a pid... might be big enough for the rest of the components.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201484312786

Make sure you mount your SSR heat sink external to the enclosure, otherwise you'll need a fan. Since you've got a din mounted rcd, I'd recommend a din mounted contactor to isolate the element... Other than that, the only other "useful" things that border on "must have" would be indicator lights for power to the box, and power to the element.

And work out well in advance what the layout will be. Do mock ups in paper/card to make sure everything will fit and give clearance for wiring.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein (14/12/15)

What I've wanted to achieve has evolved once and remained the same Stu; I'm just trying to figure out what's possible within my understanding, budget and needs. Apologies if I'm unclear, I'm still wrapping my head around it all.



mofox1 said:


> Of course. There isn't anything magic about the E.B design - just cut out the stuff you don't need. it really can be as simple as PID->SSR->Contactor->Element with a switch and a light or two.
> 
> I probably spent 6+ months researching and gathering parts before I put my hand to any tools, but I'm ocd as hell about knowing everything I can about stuff before I do it...
> 
> ...


Great advice thanks Mofox.
I shit you not, I bought that exact box from that seller a week ago; it was the best box for the best price and couldn't go past the look of the clear front. The two cable glands will help too. As far as I'm aware it has mounts for a din rail but isn't included.
I'm in Europe so havnt seen the actual box, but are the dimensions supplied internal or external?
With only 110 depth I'll be doing a lot of placement planning first, that's for sure

The contactor I've ordered is din mounted too so will place those just after the input lead.

Am I correct in thinking to place the mushroom stop switch at the start of the hot lead so that when its pushed it simply breaks the connection? 
Does it matter if it's before the RCD?

Really appreciate the help! this control box stuffs exciting but tedious

Necessary disclaimed: I know to have everything checked by a qualified sparky.


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## Camo6 (14/12/15)

Great stuff Nathan, subscribed to this thread. 
There's certainly nothing wrong with asking questions or researching this stuff just don't take everything you read as gospel. Plenty of sound advice on here and as you've stated you'll use a sparky to keep it safe.
Funny thing is a couple of years ago I had a pretty rudimentary knowledge of AC (only worked with 12v automotive) and built my own controller after months of research and help from a few members. Now I'm an apprentice sparky so be warned it's a slippery slope!


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