# VICBREW 2016



## MartinOC

Ladies & Gentlemen (& those of you who can't decide....  ),

After last year's Competition, there's been a LOT of discussion within the Committee about moving forward & dealing with the expected escalating entry-numbers, Judging schedules/regimes ...etc..etc... Changes have been made to the way things will be run for 2016.

Details of those changes can be found here:

http://vicbrew.org/news&info.htm

Please take the time to read carefully, as quite a bit has changed/will change for everyone involved.

Cheers & Beers!

Martin


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## DU99

Have read an noted :huh:


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## Siborg

Wow! Interesting about the split flights. That would have been handy at beerfest a few years back when we had close to 40 american pales to judge. I've been out of this for a while, but want to try and get back to it this year and rack up some more xp points on the old BJCP record.


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## NealK

Will the stewards still get paid double on Sunday?


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## MartinOC

Siborg said:


> Wow! Interesting about the split flights. That would have been handy at beerfest a few years back when we had close to 40 american pales to judge. I've been out of this for a while, but want to try and get back to it this year and rack up some more xp points on the old BJCP record.


Yeah, well, something had to change in the way we deal with big numbers. We're confident this will make it easier on the Judges & Stewards. Everything is subject to review after VicBrew 2016.



NealK said:


> Will the stewards still get paid double on Sunday?


Can you eat TWO free meals??


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## DU99

YES...to free food


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## manticle

Just remember - 10 new people volunteer to help (who haven't before, judging preferred) and I fly back to sit on a table for at least one of the days (possibly both)


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## MartinOC

manticle said:


> Just remember - 10 NEW people volunteer to help (who haven't before, judging preferred) and I fly back to sit on a table for at least one of the days (possibly both)


Gent's, we can't possibly ask for more commitment than that from a committed brewer & judge (BJCP qualified..etc...etc....).

Manticle will FLY (at own cost!!!) to Melbourne just to judge for a day (methinks two days, with a bit of shenannigins in between...but I digress.... B) ).

Stick your hand-up to participate!


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## droid

i'm gonna rock tha joint out...or maybe i'll just put my hand up to help all-day Saturday

1. noob ~ droid


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## Curly79

Count me in [emoji106]


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## MartinOC

Previous non-participants willing to show-up, help-out & drink free beer (so we can get Manticle to fly-in/ front-up), please add your details here:

1. Droid
2. Curly79


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## manticle

There were a couple in last year's thread too.
Should be at least halfway. Needs to be a penalty for anyone who puts their name down but doesn't show.
Maybe a 330mL of rochefort 10 mailed to Glenorchy, TAS.
If I'm a no show, that's void and I will post 1 x R10 330 mL to each person on the list verified as showing up and helping.


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## MartinOC

Me LIKEY the way you're thinking. Woo hoo!


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## Yob

1. Droid
2. Curly79
3: yob at least one day


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## manticle

New mate. You don't count as new.


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## Yob

Nutz...


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## manticle

Still be good to share a pint


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## Nullnvoid

I'll add my name down when I get on the puter.


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## Nullnvoid

1. Droid
2. Curly79
3. Nullnvoid (one of the days. To be confirmed which one?)


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## Grainer

Im in to judge


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## worthogs webmaster

We have a number of disgruntled members regarding the online only entry format. I'm anticipating that it's going to become my job to enter everyone's details in as they'll all groan about it. Don't yell at me, I'm just passing it on. I don't understand why you can't keep the manual format in place for those who want to use it. Surely the number of people who choose that option will be minimal, and with three weeks you should be able to sort those out.


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## Mardoo

Isn't it about not having to do manual pickups of entries anymore? That's how I took it, at least.


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## Yob

It's a digital world man...

Why should they expect someone else to enter their details? Shit takes time as I'm sure you appreciate.


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## worthogs webmaster

There will still need to be manual pickups as I understand it?


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## manticle

No. Place the bottles in the usb port.


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## GalBrew

If you can do something as complex as brewing a great all grain beer for a comp, then surely you perform the rather mundane task of entering said beer online?


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## Yob

Picked up by scantily dressed Norwegian minxes has my vote, not sure how that helps with data entry but it'd be a bloody nice change


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## fraser_john

Think, given the number of entries they have, being online only is more about a reduction in effort over managing pieces of paper and translating that said piece of paper accurately.

If the online site does everything it needs to, it reduces the poor organisers workload enormously.


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## DU99

What IF the system fails.....is there a backup


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## Yob

then scantily dressed Norwegian men webmasters will fix it...


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## droid

Time to get a hurry on...August is coming!


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## Yob

droid said:


> Time to get a hurry on...August is coming!


you entering wood aged or specialty with that evil RIS of yours?

ed:

emails got sent out today for folks wanting to get involved, judges and stewards.

For those never or newly involved in comps in Vic, or elsewhere for that matter, here is a

>LINK<

to the Vicbrew registration form.

I can utterly recommend coming along in one form or another, stewards and judges alike, its a huge couple of days and you get such great exposure to so many different styles of beer.. in both roles...

There are plenty of people to show you the ropes so if youre at all keen for a great day (or two) I'll see you there


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## MartinOC

Hi fellow home-brewers and craft-brewers,

We would like to invite you to volunteer to JUDGE or STEWARD at VicBrew 2016.
This year it will be held on the 10th and 11th of September at the Belgian Beer Cafe Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne, Melways 2F E7. Located about 5 minutes walk from Flinders St Station across the Evan-Walker bridge, this is a BJCP sanctioned and registered competition and all judges are welcome.

To register your interest, please fill out the form located here http://goo.gl/forms/KDNbQApRGF2A7Wqz2 with your details and preferences.
Why volunteer at VicBrew?


Evaluate some of the best beer in the state in Australia's biggest homebrewing competition.


Hone your judging skills by judging alongside highly experienced beer judges.


Earn BJCP points.


Free lunch provided for all volunteers.


Novice judges and stewards are welcome, with on-the-job training provided.


A great range of Belgian beers and craft brews in the Eureka bar.

Starting and finishing times for Saturday and Sunday are expected to be 9.00 am to 5:00 pm with judging organised in two sessions.
We encourage you to pass this message along to any of your friends or acquaintances who might be interested in judging or stewarding. If you have questions, feel free to email [email protected]

Thanks for your assistance,

The VicBrew 2016 committee


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## Curly79

I've put my name down for both days Martin. Might have to work on the Saturday but won't know untill closer to the date. Cheers [emoji481][emoji481][emoji106]


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## droid

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="Yob" data-cid="1383748" data-time="1467552033" data-date="Yesterday, 11:20 PM">Yob" data-cid="1383748" data-time="1467552033" data-date="Yesterday, 11:20 PM said:<p>you entering wood aged or specialty with that evil RIS of yours? ed: emails got sent out today for folks wanting to get involved, judges and stewards. For those never or newly involved in comps in Vic, or elsewhere for that matter, here is a <a class='bbc_url' href='https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1BnVmeAtcg6A-fhggX4LF8C9-l-UgYO1nZpeMz-ZbMlo/viewform?c=0&w=1'><span style='font-size: 24px;'>>LINKI wasn't able to bring up the categories last time I looked J. Sounds like the wood aged category would be most appropriate. Planning on being availBle to assist at least Sat, if I can get Monday off I'll do both days helping wherever. I'll register when I get back in front of a PCLooks like Manticle won't be booking a trip across the Tasman, which is sad.


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## manticle

I've offered my conditions and stand by them.
10 volunteers, new to the comp, judging preferred.

There was a list somewhere. Never saw it get to 10 but there's still time.


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## manticle

Caveat is that Tas State comp is on the saturday for which I've volunteered myself. Would only be the sunday should you get that list up to where it needs to be but I am a man of my word. Unless something dire happens with family or somesuch, I'll make the trip if conditions are met.


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## droid

The list was at 2, not doubting manticle would come. It would be nice to be proven wrong though about getting 10 noobs


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## droid

Nullnvoid said:


> 1. Droid
> 2. Curly79
> 3. Nullnvoid (one of the days. To be confirmed which one?)


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## Nullnvoid

I'm still keen to be involved on one of the days. Need to check the calendar!


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## MartinOC

manticle said:


> I am a man of my word.


Never in doubt.

'Still have to work-up the balls to brew naked in Kinglake in winter to get those Rochefort 10's. What kind of proof do you require?

PLEASE don't say a 5-hour you-tube video - it'd be really boring looking at my naked butt for that long (attractive as it is...  ). How about a succession of stills with time-stamps?


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## manticle

You can wear socks.


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## MartinOC

I accept your challenge, subject to the rules of engagement. Name them.


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## manticle

I'll presume that you aren't able to look like Catherine Zera Jones when she was 30 so we'll drop that one of the list.

I'll sort the rest out pronto.


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## Blind Dog

manticle said:


> I'll presume that you aren't able to look like Catherine Zera Jones when she was 30 so we'll drop that one of the list.
> I'll sort the rest out pronto.


Oddly enough, after a pint or six of quad, the resemblance is uncanny...blurry, but uncanny. You've been warned.


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## manticle

I would not only have to drink those quads but be glassed by each remaining bottle: separately and for a continuous period of not less than an hour each to believe that.

I have contributed to some way off topic shite and will desist.


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## reardo

Where can i find the most updated aabcstyle guidelines? I want to enter into Vicbrew.....


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## MartinOC

The hyper-links on the on the Vicbrew website aren't currently working. I'll get the tech-bloke onto it, so keep checking every so often until they work.


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## droid

Hi all, how should marzen and dunkles bock be entered? I'm assuming under the category of Amber & Dark Lager but there is also Strong Lager and they are indeed both Strong Lagers?
Yob I don't see any wood-aged category just the specialty cat for barrel aged RIS?


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## MartinOC

Marzen goes into 4.1.

Dunkels Bock will fit into either 5.3 or 5.4 (probably better-off in 5.4).

Edit: Anything like barrel-aged RIS goes into Specialty.


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## droid

thanks Martin


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## droid

MartinOC said:


> Hi fellow home-brewers and craft-brewers,
> 
> We would like to invite you to volunteer to JUDGE or STEWARD at VicBrew 2016.
> This year it will be held on the 10th and 11th of September at the Belgian Beer Cafe Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne, Melways 2F E7. Located about 5 minutes walk from Flinders St Station across the Evan-Walker bridge, this is a BJCP sanctioned and registered competition and all judges are welcome.
> 
> To register your interest, please fill out the form located here http://goo.gl/forms/KDNbQApRGF2A7Wqz2 with your details and preferences.
> Why volunteer at VicBrew?
> 
> 
> Evaluate some of the best beer in the state in Australia's biggest homebrewing competition.
> 
> 
> Hone your judging skills by judging alongside highly experienced beer judges.
> 
> 
> Earn BJCP points.
> 
> 
> Free lunch provided for all volunteers.
> 
> 
> Novice judges and stewards are welcome, with on-the-job training provided.
> 
> 
> A great range of Belgian beers and craft brews in the Eureka bar.
> 
> Starting and finishing times for Saturday and Sunday are expected to be 9.00 am to 5:00 pm with judging organised in two sessions.
> We encourage you to pass this message along to any of your friends or acquaintances who might be interested in judging or stewarding. If you have questions, feel free to email [email protected]
> 
> Thanks for your assistance,
> 
> The VicBrew 2016 committee


Put myself down for both days to "assist wherever seen fit"


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## Nullnvoid

Alright, filled out your little google form to help out on the Saturday. I don't think we will get enough for manticle to come over though. 

I'm hoping to convince the better half to come and stay in the city for the night. 

Put my name down to judge but I'm happy to do whatever.

Edit, my phone seems to think manticles name should be mandible.


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## MartinOC

Judge/Steward - it's all required. Participation.........


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## NealK

Are ciders being included again this year?


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## MartinOC

They're in for AABC 2016, so we're including them until the AABC decides to change.


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## idzy

worthogs webmaster said:


> We have a number of disgruntled members regarding the online only entry format. I'm anticipating that it's going to become my job to enter everyone's details in as they'll all groan about it. Don't yell at me, I'm just passing it on. I don't understand why you can't keep the manual format in place for those who want to use it. Surely the number of people who choose that option will be minimal, and with three weeks you should be able to sort those out.


Just get em to pop down to the library. Most librarians will give them a lesson on the world wide web.


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## Yob

Give a tutorial on a club night, tell em that we are now living in the future...


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## NealK

MartinOC said:


> They're in for AABC 2016, so we're including them until the AABC decides to change.


Cheers Martin, I just volunteered for stewarding on Sunday (All day hopefully!)


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## worthogs webmaster

Not going to get an old dog to learn new tricks now, even if I can prove to them that their neural pathways can make new connections and learn stuff! Resistance is all they are comfortable with. However, I do see the sense in leaving a manual option open. For accessibility's sake, online only will always disadvantage some.


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## GalBrew

I honestly don't see why it is so hard to do online entries. Brewing beer at home is a far more complex task than using the Internet to enter said beer in a competition.


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## DU99

:icon_offtopic: People have to remember not everyone owns a computer or has online banking faclities/credit card....i am not knocking the online process..


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## GalBrew

DU99 said:


> :icon_offtopic: People have to remember not everyone owns a computer or has online banking faclities/credit card....i am not knocking the online process..


People are free to not partake in using computers and the web. They just have to accept that they have let the world pass them by and will not be able to access certain things. Like with all technological changes, Luddites at some point will just have to adapt or miss out.


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## Curly79

NealK said:


> Cheers Martin, I just volunteered for stewarding on Sunday (All day hopefully!)


Good work Neal. That makes 3 or 4 new volunteers I think. 6 or 7 to go


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## Yob

worthogs webmaster said:


> Not going to get an old dog to learn new tricks now, even if I can prove to them that their neural pathways can make new connections and learn stuff! Resistance is all they are comfortable with. However, I do see the sense in leaving a manual option open. For accessibility's sake, online only will always disadvantage some.


and the flipside of that coin is offline entries disadvantage the organisers who ultimately have to do it for them anyway, so whichever side you look at, someone is getting a raw deal.. the future lies not with manual entries and where do you draw the line? Has to be somewhere and we did it for Beerfest, personally I was happier to get home an hour earlier than would have otherwise been the case to see the kids...


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## MartinOC

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm gonna sound like a scratched record here (does anyone of Gen-Y remember vinyl??). 

I'll reiterate: Vicbrew is getting bigger every year. With that, comes an ever-increasing workload for the organising Committee. None of us is getting any younger & with no new-blood stepping-up to take-on the workload (apart from Adam & Mort), it's just going to get harder to co-ordinate. HINT GUYS!!!

Vicbrew does NOT run itself - it relies on the ongoing commitment of a handful of hard-core nutters that love doing what they do in the interests of the homebrewing community. Without us, nothing will happen. Without new blood, it won't continue. HINT GUYS!!

Believe me, the decisions we ultimately took for 2016 were VERY hotly debated over many hours (& beers  ), email exchanges & personal conversations. Some contentious suggestions (ie. to limit entry numbers, category sizes etc.) took a long time to thrash-out in the interests of EVERYONE, not individuals & the smooth running of the competition . Ultimately, something has to give - one of those was online entries.

In every other way possible, we've looked at ways to make the biggest homebrew competition in the Southern Hemisphere work for YOU.

Work WITH us on this by embracing the changes that HAD to be made. Volunteer to judge & Steward for the comp. (yes, I deliberately used lower-case "j" & upper-case "S"  . It's my role & focus within the Committee).

Everyone works together, everyone benefits.


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## MartinOC

Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light.

Albert Schweitzer - 1875-1965 - Theologian and Physician


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## droid

MartinOC said:


> Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. Albert Schweitzer - 1875-1965 - Theologian and Physician


Man I read that as Albert Schwartzbier - i need an early night


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## WarmerBeer

Have volunteered to help Steward on the Sunday.

Might pre-organise a day of annual leave for the Monday. Just in case.


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## Blind Dog

MartinOC said:


> Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light.
> 
> Albert Schweitzer - 1875-1965 - Theologian and Physician


You're going to start sounding like that clever brewing bloke if you're not careful


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## droid

Hi there, another question:

I have entered a Dunkles Bock but there is no Dunkles Bock in the drop down box.
The choice is amber/dark Lager
or
Strong Dark Lager>6%

ive entered a Marzen in the amber/dark lager cat and note that Munich Dunkle is in that section...but my Dunkles Bock is 7.16% so have entered as a Dopplebock in the >6% section??

it looks like Dunkles Bock can float between the two - what say yee? - I can cancel the entry as I haven't paid yet and put it in with my marzen but would rather enter it as a >6% + Dunkles Bock in the strong section


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## MartinOC

droid said:


> ive entered a Marzen in the amber/dark lager cat and note that Munich Dunkle is in that section...but my Dunkles Bock is 7.16% so have entered as a Dopplebock in the >6% section??
> 
> it looks like Dunkles Bock can float between the two - what say yee? - I can cancel the entry as I haven't paid yet and put it in with my marzen but would rather enter it as a >6% + Dunkles Bock in the strong section


All good. You've made the right choices. The ABV is a bigger determinant of where it should go, rather than the colour. Bear in mind that the Committee has the right to reallocate a beer to a more appropriate section if it feels that beer has been incorrectly entered, so it would've been put into the >6% arena anyway.


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## droid

Thanks Martin you're a champ.

I think I've managed to corale? Landon Moss to help out at Vicbrew, he volunteered at Gabs, I'll see him Thursday to see if he has committed to one of the days to help.

cheers eh


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## Yob

Is he on the list as a newbie?


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## droid

We shall put him on if/when we get confirm eh

we'd be half way then cuz


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## droid

I sent him to the vicbrew site but now I cant see the form for helping on the site now. Anyway I'll ask him tomorrow and sort it.


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## Nullnvoid

Just entered my first competition. That's exciting


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## Nullnvoid

droid said:


> I sent him to the vicbrew site but now I cant see the form for helping on the site now. Anyway I'll ask him tomorrow and sort it.


https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScDL6qu4LZk48qEsDYjdpDAZf1829D7kKFsf5XjVEECd5dvFQ/viewform?c=0&w=1

There was a link on Yob's post #32 further up


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## timmi9191

Another steward/judge popping his cherry if help still required.

Is that 10 yet?


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## Curly79

That makes 4 or 5? I think there's another 5 or 6 lurking. Just biding their time so mants can get a cheap flight.


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## MartinOC

5 newbies so far (Stewards).

I've got the Judge Director (Mort) looking at his own list of newbies (Judges).

Depending on what he comes-back with, we may call-in Manticle's promise, or keep it in salt for next year (since he'll be judging the Tas. Comp. on the Saturday, which would be a waste of his time & money to do all the travelling for just one day).

Watch this space.....


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## manticle

A promise is a promise. If you legitimately get 10 genuine noobs, call it in. I get a free lunch so no waste.


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## MartinOC

You're a stirling gentleman, Mants. Never doubted it.

Might still hold-off the promise until next year & not waste your time/weekend this time 'round.


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## MartinOC

BTW gents, although we've implemented system improvements, we'll still need bodies. Saturday will be an absolute ball-tearer.

Queued-judging for the bigger categories still needs MORE JUDGES & fewer Stewards to achieve the same goal. Still, it's bodies that's required.

We NEED you....


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## timmi9191

martin - i put myself down to steward sat and judge sun, but put me down for what suits best..


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## MartinOC

Thanks, mate - all good.

As long as we get the help to get through the anticipated numbers....


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## JPS

i clicked on the first link in the first post but couldnt see where the event is held, happy to help and how much have official entries grown over the years?


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## MartinOC

The Victorian Amateur Brewing Championships (Vicbrew 2016) will be held on 10th & 11th September 2016 at the Belgian Beer Café Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne. Melways reference: 2F E7 .

Register your interest to help here: http://goo.gl/forms/KDNbQApRGF2A7Wqz2

The volume of entries has risen considerably over the years. For example, in 2015 we got 602 entries, compared to 458 the year before. We're anticipating even more this year!!


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## idzy

worthogs webmaster said:


> Not going to get an old dog to learn new tricks now, even if I can prove to them that their neural pathways can make new connections and learn stuff! Resistance is all they are comfortable with. However, I do see the sense in leaving a manual option open. For accessibility's sake, online only will always disadvantage some.


You could always print off the page for those members you are concerned about and then give it to them and get them to fill it out and then enter it.


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## idzy

MartinOC said:


> The Victorian Amateur Brewing Championships (Vicbrew 2016) will be held on 10th & 11th September 2016 at the Belgian Beer Café Eureka, 5 Riverside Quay, Southbank Melbourne. Melways reference: 2F E7 .
> 
> Register your interest to help here: http://goo.gl/forms/KDNbQApRGF2A7Wqz2
> 
> The volume of entries has risen considerably over the years. For example, in 2015 we got 602 entries, compared to 458 the year before. We're anticipating even more this year!!


Thanks v. much Martin, have just reg'd.


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## MartinOC

A friendly reminder to everyone that entries close on 20/8/16. 

That's a week earlier than previously. Don't miss-out!


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## AJ80

Evening all - a quick question on the new bottle size regulations. I bottle most of my Belgian sours in champagne bottles and have managed to find one that juuuuust complies with the new regulations (87mm in diameter and 298mm in height). Just wondering how thoroughly the new rule will be applied as I'd hate to see an entry disqualified by someone eyeballing my bottle and turfing it out based on the fact it is an old champagne bottle. Many thanks.


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## droid

You could put someone in charge of rescuing your bottle if it doesn't get through...actually, that's funny, cough cough, I'll be there so I could er, look after it for you.


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## Black n Tan

My understanding is that if it does not fit in the crate then it will not be judged. So they won't be measured as such, just need to fit the crate.


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## GalBrew

If it fits in a crate so the crates can still be stacked when we organise the crates in the coolroom it will be fine. 

I realise I used the word 'crates' a lot in that sentence.


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## AJ80

Cheers for the responses guys - just checked and when stacked the crate on top is a little wonky so will leave it out of the comp. Good for me, but the judges will be missing out on a tasty oud bruin...


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## Black n Tan

AJ your crates may not be the same as the VicBrew ones. If the bottle is 298mm high you will be fine, so enter it.


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## AJ80

Black n Tan said:


> AJ your crates may not be the same as the VicBrew ones. If the bottle is 298mm high you will be fine, so enter it.


Thanks B&T


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## worthogs webmaster

I've gone ahead and put down Glenn as a judge/steward for the Saturday. He wouldn't get off his bum and complete the form, so please excuse me if I didn't put all the right stuff in.


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## Yob

https://goo.gl/images/FbpX0Z

Sorry...


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## MartinOC

Hmm... I don't get the reference, but Glenn (Reg) is always welcome in any capacity (judging preferred, since we'll need more of them this year with the queued-judging regime).

We'll need to break the back of the judging on Saturday & hopefully just cruise through Sunday (I thought that last year & it turned into a mega-stressful bun-fight to get through the remaining entries).

I'm hopeful we'll get the number of bodies required this year...


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## [email protected]_dan

Dear Martin and all, just submitted my volunteer form (sorry for my tardiness).. Anyway, as promised last year, happy to make myself available either or both days.


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## MartinOC

Hey Dan,

Thanks & welcome aboard! We'll always need bodies to do stuff & of course, there's lots of free beer.......


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## DU99

It's a good event to do..


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## mxd

whoops, just volunteered then realized it's my son's birthday party, so need to look at time DOH


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## Spiesy

Hey VicBrew Posse...

Two questions:

How many entries are you allowed to have per category? Cannot seem to find that info.
When do volunteers find out if they're needed? With the comp being just 3-weeks away, I need to know if I need to set a day aside.
Jah bless.


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## MartinOC

1. Entry rules are 2 per category, 1 per sub-style.

Can't understand why you had trouble finding them. They're in the small-print at the bottom of the paper entry form, right after "75% of all profits from Vicbrew will be used to put-up the organising Committee in a Bahamas resort of their choice for a week". B)

2. Once the entries close this weekend, we'll have a good idea of the scale of the task ahead of us & will then contact all the judges & stewards so they can organise their leave-passes with the significant other.

All-hail the Dark Lord!


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## DU99

when vicbrew finishes


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## MartinOC

Nah, that's at the start. Note the light-sabre. 

At the end, I'm more like:


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## Beak

gday, just wondering if volunteers are needed for the weekend of vicbrew 2016. I am willing to put my handup for a job. Im happy to do whatever. I have entered a couple of beers and would love to help out, if needed. i havnt sent my entry details yet online. So if needed i can volunteer that way. Also i dont have any beer judgeing qualifcations! cheers malc


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## MartinOC

No qualifications needed, just a willingness to get stuck-in & help-out.

Register your willingness in the linky above & be prepared for a lot of fun. This IS supposed to be fun, we're doing beer, right???


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## Grainer

Entries booked in  Some new experiments/receipes in there.. so will be good to get some helpful feedback..


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## Yob

Oh shit.. Better get onto this.. Damn near forgot..


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## DU99

you better Yob ..20th is closing date


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## Blind Dog

DU99 said:


> you better Yob ..20th is closing date


Early on the 20th, per the VicBrew website, for final drop offs


----------



## MartinOC

Hi Guys,

We had the final Vicbrew committee meeting last night & thrashed-out a few last-minute bits & pieces.

One item for discussion was* late entries*. The consensus was that they *won't be accepted* after the cut-off time on Saturday at the designated drop-off points (unless you want to drop to me in Kinglake...... :blink: ). We've had all the dates & locations out there for a very long time & I've posted-up reminders here a few times, so there's no excuses.

Cut-off means cut-off....

If you'd like to help-out (preferably on the Sunday), please complete the form here: http://goo.gl/forms/KDNbQApRGF2A7Wqz2

Cheers,

Martin


----------



## Mardoo

Show up at your place in Kinglake in cut-offs?


----------



## MartinOC

In winter? Go for it! I'll take photo's 

Hey Mardoo...You playing Steward this year? You're not on the list.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Dear Committee, this may be a silly question, but I just wanted to check that Ballarat Home Brew Centre is still on the drop/collection point since the recent change in ownership.. I just wanted to to double check in case I needed to get to G&G on Saturday for a mercy dash.. (which is always not a bad thing..)


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Understandable that picture made you think of Mardoo


----------



## Mardoo

I'll PM you.


----------



## Grainer

Doh.. just tasted my entry for the Barleywine cat.. undercarbed .. oh well.. expect feedback that reflects that !


----------



## citizensnips

First time with the online entry....I like it. Last minute question, in previous years I've put my entries in something and padded them etc...wondering if I can just drop the bottles themselves to the venue? 

Cheers


----------



## MartinOC

[email protected]_dan said:


> Dear Committee, this may be a silly question, but I just wanted to check that Ballarat Home Brew Centre is still on the drop/collection point since the recent change in ownership.. I just wanted to to double check in case I needed to get to G&G on Saturday for a mercy dash.. (which is always not a bad thing..)


Yep, it's still a designated drop point.



citizensnips said:


> First time with the online entry....I like it. Last minute question, in previous years I've put my entries in something and padded them etc...wondering if I can just drop the bottles themselves to the venue?
> 
> Cheers


In short, NO. 

Long answer: We need to pre-sort all the bottles & re-label them into category & judging order off-site before they get to the venue. That takes time & is why all entries need to be dropped to a designated collection point by 12pm this Saturday & no late-entries will be accepted. The venue has no storage facilities available.


----------



## citizensnips

Sorry I meant collection point. Can we just drop our bottles to the collection point?

Cheers


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Doubled my entries this year from 1 to 2!! Spewing I can't make it to help out, had a ball last year as steward. Will endeavour to help next year. Good luck to all [emoji106]


----------



## MartinOC

citizensnips said:


> Sorry I meant collection point. Can we just drop our bottles to the collection point?
> 
> Cheers


Yep, no problems. They should have crates/boxes available.


----------



## mxd

don't forget to get ya entries in, I put mine in last night. The count is around 350, so still a lot more required


----------



## droid

yes - good luck to all!

my first vicbrew participation both in entries and assisting - looking forward to it

I'm down for Saturday and Sunday, I would appreciate it if you have enough people for the Saturday that I am pushed into the Sunday only - it's just that I have to pay for two nights in a hotel but that's all OK and I'm happy to do both days still no problemo

is there a hotel downhill or downstream from the venue?


----------



## MartinOC

Sunday only is fine, my good man. We'll need more bodies that day anyway & the beers are generally more interesting, so all good.


----------



## droid

MartinOC said:


> Sunday only is fine, my good man. We'll need more bodies that day anyway & the beers are generally more interesting, so all good.


mate that's awesome, if the brown sticky stuff hits the fan in the days leading up to it, i can revert to the original plan, cheers


----------



## manticle

Porter is a shit to clean off the ceiling


----------



## Yob

droid said:


> mate that's awesome, if the brown sticky stuff hits the fan in the days leading up to it, i can revert to the original plan, cheers


I'll be doing Sunday as well, got a bungalow if you need it.. Or you Martin..


----------



## droid

nice one J - does the Bungalow come with any complimentary's?


----------



## Yob

It's got a shed near it... Should be well stocked


----------



## mofox1

Ah feck it - I suppose I could enter one or two...

Would a rhubarb saison that has lost most of it's rhubarb-y flavour (still adds a nice tartness) do better in a spec category, or just enter under saison?


----------



## manticle

Does it taste like a saison or a rhubarb saison?
Either decide yourself or enter the same beer in both categories.


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> I'll be doing Sunday as well, got a bungalow if you need it.. Or you Martin..


Already thought of offering the couch, but the pooches would probably want to sleep with him....& I have little beer available.



Yob said:


> It's got a shed near it... Should be well stocked


I think that's a much better offer.


----------



## Blind Dog

Entries in, filled in form to volunteer to steward on Sunday. Happy to do whatever though.

Now just need to negotiate the leave pass...

And drop the entries off...


----------



## Yob

rookie mistake..

bottle cap ID up to shit, cant seem to extract it from compmaster..

Problem?


----------



## Blind Dog

Don't think so. Just make sure the compmaster label is secured to the bottle and ideally waterproof - the little ziplock snack bags are ideal, as the ink might run if/when it gets wet.

Might be wrong though. Hope not, as I didn't use them.


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> rookie mistake..
> 
> bottle cap ID up to shit, cant seem to extract it from compmaster..
> 
> Problem?


No, not a problem as long as you've got the correct compmaster label on the bottle. We put our own internal labels over any bottle cap ID anyway for the comp. It's just a double-check in case the cap label falls off.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

At Ballarat Home brew centre to dropand pickup has left before 12 (now 11:40)... How can I get them to you???


----------



## [email protected]_dan

At Ballarat Home brew centre to dropand pickup has left before 12 (now 11:40)... How can I get them to you???


----------



## MartinOC

I just left a message with the guy that's picking up. Hopefully he's not too far away, but he's got a lot of different drop points to get to today & maybe unable to go back in time.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Thanks, I left my number but took the bottles with me. They close at 1PM.. Kinglake road trip?


----------



## Curly79

Saturday is out for me. Nephew is playing in his footy grand final. Count me in for Sunday Martin.


----------



## MartinOC

[email protected]_dan said:


> Thanks, I left my number but took the bottles with me. They close at 1PM.. Kinglake road trip?


Smart move! The bloke doing most of the pickups has a very hectic day (from memory, he did over 800Km last year to pick up entries) & can't be everywhere at once. That's why we ask that regional pickup points get their bottles in before, or very early on the pickup day.

I was joking about the Kinglake drop-off (meant as a disincentive to last-minute people who can't get their act-together). I'll get you a mailing address & PM you.



Curly79 said:


> Saturday is out for me. Nephew is playing in his footy grand final. Count me in for Sunday Martin.


No problems. We'll need more Stewards on the Sunday anyway & you can come in/out with me (Tracy will be driving, as I'll be in "utter relief-time to have a few beers" mode by then).

EDIT: Compmaster has been manually shut-off for any more entries as of about 1pm today, so anyone trying to enter late has no chance. Them's the rules gent's!


----------



## MartinOC

OK gents, the numbers are in.

408 entries. Thankfully, 200 down on last year (phew!).

I won't post-up the details, but suffice it to say that anyone entering the Specialty category, or thinking their RIS is REALLY, REALLY good are between a rock & a hard place & up against some really stiff competition.

Good luck to all.

Martin


----------



## droid

Competition is good !


----------



## Grainer

.. RIS will be the category to get shit faced on ..LMAO ..good luck to those judges!.... RIS is a favourite of quite a few..so this is to be expected!


----------



## MartinOC

I definitely wouldn't want to be a judge in that category. Towards the end, it'll be a Kodak-moment (if they're not already under the table, giggling & talking in braille).


----------



## Mardoo

I was just thinking last night that RIS is probably the only style I've had enough examples of to consider myself for judging. And then I thought about that carpet under the judging table...


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

My brother in law invented the Massey Ferguson scale for judging these things: each month since the sump oil was last changed is an extra point.


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> I won't post-up the details, but suffice it to say that anyone entering the Specialty category, or thinking their RIS is REALLY, REALLY good are between a rock & a hard place & up against some really stiff competition.


Specialty is a huge cat (always is).. I would assume a few tables judging?

RIS is going to be sooo good this year..


----------



## Yob

Strap in, it's THAT weekend..


----------



## timmi9191

Live twitter feed?


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

I think AHB is the place where any 'live' results are posted IIRC?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Good luck to all the entrants.

I haven't got anything in this year...but big thanks to all involved in making it happen anyway.

Sorry I can't be there to help out.

Have fun.


----------



## Black n Tan

An exciting weekend indeed. I am stewarding tomorrow, the pick of the days IMO because the results get announced on Sunday once judging has been completed.


----------



## MartinOC

Hi Guys,

A quick update before I hit the sack.

Today was rather frantic to begin-with (as always!), but HUGELY successful.

Mainly due to the changes we've made to the queued judging system, we banged-through & completed all the biggest categories (except for specialties) & were done, cleaned-up & hitting the bar by about 4.15 today. Absolutely stellar effort by everyone who turned-up. Thank you!

With the same systems in-place for tomorrow, we might be done & dusted by lunchtime-ish, all the numbers crunched & trophies awarded by early-mid afternoon.

I'm actually quite calm & relaxed now compared to the usual "frazzled & burnt-out" at this time on the Saturday....

Seeya's tomorrow!


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL




----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

iPhone emojis not compatible with the forum, didn't realise that!

Looking forward to hearing some results for each of the categories :beer:


----------



## Toper

Great work by all Martin,twas a breezy day yesterday thanks to the changes,hope it all went as well today.Some great beers there. :chug:


----------



## Wonderwoman

Was a great day today. Thanks to all the vicbrew committee for all the work you do to get this event to run smoothly- I know there's a lot of behind the scenes work that most are unaware of.


----------



## MartinOC

wonderwoman said:


> Was a great day today. Thanks to all the vicbrew committee for all the work you do to get this event to run smoothly- I know there's a lot of behind the scenes work that most are unaware of.


Thanks Wonderwoman (I don't remember seeing seeing your red & gold lycra suit today, but maybe that's the effect of your "lassoo of truth"?).

Yeah, there's a whole year of hard work by the committee that gets us to this weekend & then it's a massive team-effort between the judges & stewards to bring it to conclusion. 

We got there! HUGE thanks to everyone involved. It can't happen with out you.

Final results will be out once we've got everything sorted out. The concept of tweeting live results is a complete wank & won't happen as long as my arse points to the ground.

Edit: If you want to know immediate results, turn-up & help-out. Get involved & actually BE THERE for the awards. Anything else is just ******* lazy.


----------



## Andyd

Results should go live tonight, with scoresheets to follow shortly in the week.

I do need to apologize for a data entry error which affected the result of the Farmhouse category - I missed a faint digit in one of the scores which had a big impact (the entry I mis-entered actually came first, pushing everyone else down one place).

Like Martin said, it was frantic, but ran remarkably smoothly - this was largely due to the great response we received for volunteers to judge and steward this year. Thanks very much to everyone who committed part (or all of) their weekend to support our hobby.

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## Yob

When do place getters need to have their entries for nationals ready?

Ed: From Compmaster

Qualifying for AABC 2016:

Brewers of the best three beers in each Category will be invited to enter that beer (or a replacement) in the National Championship to be held in Adelaide on Thursday 13th October 2016. Entry fee to VicBrew 2016 includes cost of entry to Nationals and delivery from participating Vicbrew shops


----------



## Nullnvoid

Have the results been released yet or am I just not looking in the right spot?


----------



## Yob

Nullnvoid said:


> Have the results been released yet or am I just not looking in the right spot?


I cant see them yet Rus


----------



## mxd

Yob said:


> When do place getters need to have their entries for nationals ready?
> 
> Ed: From Compmaster
> 
> Qualifying for AABC 2016:
> Brewers of the best three beers in each Category will be invited to enter that beer (or a replacement) in the National Championship to be held in Adelaide on Thursday 13th October 2016. Entry fee to VicBrew 2016 includes cost of entry to Nationals and delivery from participating Vicbrew shops


last year I think I had 3 days , the year before, it was less than 2 weeks (I was in Darwin for 10 days and it had to be in before I could get home).


----------



## Nullnvoid

Yob said:


> I cant see them yet Rus


Yeah, you have that trophy to give you an indication of results


----------



## Yob

mxd said:


> last year I think I had 3 days , the year before, it was less than 2 weeks (I was in Darwin for 10 days and it had to be in before I could get home).


I think you picked up a place somewhere too Matt


----------



## Andyd

OK.

Ful Results: http://www.compmaster.com.au//compmaster_resultSummary/29/full

Summary Results: http://www.compmaster.com.au//compmaster_resultSummary/29/full

Just waiting on a final count for Scott Vernon before we publish the major awards - sorry about that!

Andy


----------



## Nullnvoid

Whoooohooo, 4th! I'm pretty stoked with that considering my first time entered into a comp 

Brilliant


----------



## Yob

BnT you prick!!

got me on countback and nudged me to fourth in specialty :lol:


----------



## Spiesy

Hats off to everyone who worked tirelessly behind the scenes and the volunteers who chipped in to make it all happen - was a great day. Big thanks to all the sponsors, including the Belgian Beer Cafe, as well. Great event. Only wish I wasn't so wrecked before getting there!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Nullnvoid said:


> Whoooohooo, 4th! I'm pretty stoked with that considering my first time entered into a comp
> 
> Brilliant


Well done Russ - Strong Scotch Ale....wouldnt be your 2015 Swap meet beer would it????


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Well done to all.

A huge amount of "No Clubbers" this year.

Phil Rayner - whoever you are, please join Melbourne brewers.


----------



## idzy

Well done to Mort, Martin and the committee. Was very smooth on Saturday and I'm sure it continued the same on Sunday.

Most importantly, well done to those who got a result they were happy with and hopefully some constructive tasting notes to continue improving.


----------



## Wonderwoman

MartinOC said:


> Thanks Wonderwoman (I don't remember seeing seeing your red & gold lycra suit today, but maybe that's the effect of your "lassoo of truth"?).


I was incognito yesterday


----------



## Nullnvoid

GrumpyPaul said:


> Well done Russ - Strong Scotch Ale....wouldnt be your 2015 Swap meet beer would it????


Thanks. Yes it was the 2015 Swap Beer. So I guess technically it's a 4th for all of us


----------



## dannymars

My RIS came 4th... 

pipped at the post by Yob by 1 point.

On the flip side, my IIPA seems to have secured the lowest score in the entire comp... lol


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Nullnvoid said:


> Thanks. Yes it was the 2015 Swap Beer. So I guess technically it's a 4th for all of us


thats Ok I did the same with my Stout we brewed at the swap at Yobs a few years back. It placed 5th


----------



## droid

the easy part:

Thanks to the Vicbrew committee, the Judges, Stewards, the Belgian Beer Cafe Southbank for hosting and all the sponsors large and small. Thanks to Yob and his wonderful family for hosting me!

the hard part:

The tough part about competing is dealing with not doing very well, you think you're doing OK and you find out you really kinda sucked - that's tough, thought my Marzen was a fine drop and it tanked.

Hopefully the feedback is constructive and succinct so I can reflect and come away with a better understanding of how to make my entries more betterer next time. I did send back (via Mort) some scoresheets from a couple of tables that had sections completely blank. Hopefully those brewers will now have some decent feedback.

cheers


----------



## droid

oh yeah and congrats to the feckers that placed


----------



## Blind Dog

GrumpyPaul said:


> Well done to all.
> 
> A huge amount of "No Clubbers" this year.
> 
> Phil Rayner - whoever you are, please join Melbourne brewers.


Yep - I will. Pretty stoked with the results, pipped by Kris by a point by my reckoning. Huge thanks to all involved, judges, stewards and especially the vicbrew committee. P****d off I couldn't make it this year as last year was a blast.


----------



## mezz94

dannymars said:


> My RIS came 4th...
> 
> pipped at the post by Yob by 1 point.
> 
> On the flip side, my IIPA seems to have secured the lowest score in the entire comp... lol


Same here mate. My IPA scored around the 44's at Pale Ale Mania comp few weeks ago but was second last in this. Something must of went wrong in that bottle haha. Look forward to the score sheet. 

Got a second for my English Brown at least.


----------



## Black n Tan

Yob said:


> BnT you prick!!
> 
> got me on countback and nudged me to fourth in specialty :lol:


A fourth only separated from third on count back hurts the most :lol:


----------



## WarmerBeer

Black n Tan said:


> A fourth only separated from third on count back hurts the most :lol:


You may still get the call-up for the Nationals if one of the place-getters can't field a beer.

Has happened before (from 1st hand experience)


----------



## Yob

WarmerBeer said:


> You may still get the call-up for the Nationals if one of the place-getters can't field a beer.
> 
> Has happened before (from 1st hand experience)


I agree, Grant should sit this one out


----------



## dannymars

Looks like 3/4 & 5 all had the same score in specialty ... How does that work?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

I reckon given the tightness of the 3 equal thirds there would be a good argument for the Vicbrew committee to get dispensation for 1st, 2nd and *the three =3rds* to be entered into AABC.

All those in favor of the Vicbrew committee appraoching the AABC commitee say AYE


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

My Düsseldorf Altbier got 6th, fooking stoked with that! Especially cos I used Spalt hops and Jamil says don't use Spalt in comps as it throws perceptions out.

Two beers entered both scored over 100 so very happy as I've vastly improved since last year. Can't wait to see the score sheets for comments and feedback ! Thanks to all again [emoji1]


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

dannymars said:


> Looks like 3/4 & 5 all had the same score in specialty ... How does that work?


Usually separated on countback: often the beer with the narrowest point spread comes top, even though the point totals are identical.

Eaxmple: a beer that got 39, 40, 41 to total 120 would win over a beer that got 39, 39, 42 to total 120.


----------



## moonhead

dannymars said:


> On the flip side, my IIPA seems to have secured the lowest score in the entire comp... lol


Might want to check the scoresheet for that, I recall there being an IIPA that came back with a very, very low score, because it wasn't actually an IIPA... We were pretty sure it was in the wrong category.


----------



## MartinOC

Yob said:


> When do place getters need to have their entries for nationals ready?


I'm kinda hoping that you've already got that same beer ready to go in a bottle & don't have to go sucking the dregs out of multiple kegs/barrels & mixing them to fill an entry... h34r:



Spiesy said:


> Only wish I wasn't so wrecked before getting there!


Aha! I wondered why you were rather "subdued". Yob was still ferociously hungover from his Saturday night indulgences & I had to go & get him a very large, triple-shot coffee with LOTS of sugar to get him back on track..



wonderwoman said:


> I was incognito yesterday


Was that you I spotted lifting 20 full crates with one hand??



dannymars said:


> my IIPA seems to have secured the lowest score in the entire comp... lol


The Committee discussed a "Wooden-Spoon" award a few years ago as bit of a laugh & to encourage improvement. I might bring it up again in this year's debrief.



droid said:


> I did send back (via Mort) some scoresheets from a couple of tables that had sections completely blank. Hopefully those brewers will now have some decent feedback.


Excellent work! That's the kind of thinking-Steward I like to have on my team. Obviously, I didn't see the scoresheets, or I would've done that myself. Good stuff.



dannymars said:


> Looks like 3/4 & 5 all had the same score in specialty ... How does that work?


Countback. Here's how we do it: 

*7.* Trophies will be awarded for the 3 highest scoring entries in each Category. In the event of tied scores, placegetters will be decided by progressive countback as follows: a) highest score for Overall Impression; b) highest score for Flavour; c) smallest spread in total scores (smallest difference between highest and lowest scores); d) the judging panel will be requested to resolve the tie.

Thankfully, we didn't have to invoke 7d for anything... :wacko:



GrumpyPaul said:


> I reckon given the tightness of the 3 equal thirds there would be a good argument for the Vicbrew committee to get dispensation for 1st, 2nd and *the three =3rds* to be entered into AABC.
> 
> All those in favor of the Vicbrew committee appraoching the AABC commitee say AYE


Not gonna happen mate. The Nationals run on having only 3 entries from each participating State, thus restricting the number of beers judged by each panel. It would be wrong to "weight" the entries towards Victorians.


----------



## GalBrew

moonhead said:


> Might want to check the scoresheet for that, I recall there being an IIPA that came back with a very, very low score, because it wasn't actually an IIPA... We were pretty sure it was in the wrong category.


I also recall that particular beer. Any chance you got beers mixed up?


----------



## moonhead

idzy said:


> Well done to Mort, Martin and the committee. Was very smooth on Saturday and I'm sure it continued the same on Sunday.
> 
> Most importantly, well done to those who got a result they were happy with and hopefully some constructive tasting notes to continue improving.


Here, here.

I was really worried after the horror stories from last year, but I have to say I was pretty damn impressed by how well it went. Props to the organisers for thinking ahead and getting everything all lined up for a smooth weekend.

Also cheers to the entrants for the fantastic beers!


----------



## moonhead

GalBrew said:


> I also recall that particular beer. Any chance you got beers mixed up?





moonhead said:


> Might want to check the scoresheet for that, I recall there being an IIPA that came back with a very, very low score, because it wasn't actually an IIPA... We were pretty sure it was in the wrong category.





dannymars said:


> On the flip side, my IIPA seems to have secured the lowest score in the entire comp... lol


I'd be seeing if some of the other low scoring ones were marked down for being overly hoppy and alcoholic for the style! (Looking at Southern English Brown Ale @ 39, to begin with...) Wonder if there was a label mix up?


----------



## Yob

MartinOC said:


> I'm kinda hoping that you've already got that same beer ready to go in a bottle & don't have to go sucking the dregs out of multiple kegs/barrels & mixing them to fill an entry... h34r:


You DO know who I am and what I do right? :lol:


----------



## WarmerBeer

Yob said:


> You DO know who I am and what I do right? :lol:


Dunno?

There was only a pale shadow of a man, in a Yob shaped package, there on Sunday.


----------



## manticle

He doesn't get much sun.


----------



## Yob

WarmerBeer said:


> There was only a pale shadow of a man, in a Yob shaped package, there on Sunday.


You clearly missed the 'on song' version all day Saturday..


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

moonhead said:


> I'd be seeing if some of the other low scoring ones were marked down for being overly hoppy and alcoholic for the style! (Looking at Southern English Brown Ale @ 39, to begin with...) Wonder if there was a label mix up?


The Southern English Brown Ale that scored 39 was heavily infected, looked like it had both lactic bacteria and Brett.

Although Belgium is more or less south of England, we didn't think that had any weight.


----------



## Andyd

Folks,

Scoreheets for VicBrew 2016 are now available through your CompMaster accounts. Sorry for the delay!

Andy


----------



## bullsneck

Committee... thanks for all your work. Volunteers... you are legends. On to the Nationals!


----------



## Grainer

Heads up.. my Baltic Porter feedback sheet belongs to someone else on compmaster ??? is it possible to fix this?

Surprised that my JAO got a second over my FAR superior Bouchet (Burnt Mead) that came last in the category (maybe the judges haven't had burnt mead before?) Oh well happy with a second for the JAO.. Might contact Michael Fairbrother (Moonlight Meadery) to check his opinion since there is not much knowledge locally.. Unless someone else here has extensive knowledge???.. we have to change that!


----------



## dannymars

GalBrew said:


> I also recall that particular beer. Any chance you got beers mixed up?





moonhead said:


> I'd be seeing if some of the other low scoring ones were marked down for being overly hoppy and alcoholic for the style! (Looking at Southern English Brown Ale @ 39, to begin with...) Wonder if there was a label mix up?


Reading the score sheet... It's definitely not my beer...

"No hops, no bitterness, watery, 0 carbonation... Almost porter in darkness." All impossible descriptors for the beer I submitted.

I counter-pressure filled (should hold carb)... plus, it was a 200+ IBU beer. I doubt any beer that bitter is going to change in the bottle to that degree.

Also, out of the 3 IIPA scoresheets, one of them is a sheet I wrote for a Robust Porter.


----------



## GalBrew

dannymars said:


> Reading the score sheet... It's definitely not my beer...
> 
> "No hops, no bitterness, watery, 0 carbonation... Almost porter in darkness." All impossible descriptors for the beer I submitted.
> 
> I counter-pressure filled (should hold carb)... plus, it was a 200+ IBU beer. I doubt any beer that bitter is going to change in the bottle to that degree.
> 
> Also, out of the 3 IIPA scoresheets, one of them is a sheet I wrote for a Robust Porter.


That description is spot on for the beer we got back from the judges. Brown, tasteless, watery and flat. We were all confused behind the bar too if it makes you feel better.


----------



## NealK

I just noticed that my Munich Dunkel scores were added up incorrectly. This should put me second in the category and by my calculations Joint second for champion brewer! 
If points for cider were counted I would be joint champion!


----------



## Grainer

NealK said:


> I just noticed that my Munich Dunkel scores were added up incorrectly. This should put me second in the category and by my calculations Joint second for champion brewer!
> If points for cider were counted I would be joint champion!


Quite a few scoresheets have been uploaded incorrectly.....check the entry numbers to ensure they are actually your scoresheets 1st.. .. not sure if this was translated correctly in the end..?????
quite a few look to be mixed up.

How were the categories where only 2 judges present scored? numbers done add up???


----------



## droid

The model of learning: Action - Feedback - Reflection - New Understanding

From the score-sheet comments my marzen and another beer were infected (somehow during keg to bottle transfer)... never been so happy to have an infection! at bottling stage, more careful must be I 
But at least I can take comfort in the brewhouse side of things as it is tasty out of the keg. Also there were comments on oxidisation and most of the beers have been pumped from a warm conical to a keg so again, something learned there too. Excellent feedback on the whole so thanks all. Thanks Andy for getting the scoresheets posted so quickly.


----------



## NealK

The score sheets are definitely for my beer but one sheet that scored 39 was input as 30. Easy mistake to make when you see some peoples writing.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

I have a mix up on a score sheet.. Entry 524, with score sheet for 545 judge ID19. Thankfully the ones that placed are all good. Thanks while at it to committee, stewards and judges.


----------



## gotsomecraic

If entrant #144 is after there pale ale comments i have it.

If someone has my barleywine comments i.e #460 i'm your man.


----------



## Grainer

AndyD is on top of it.. email him your with incorrect scoresheets


----------



## Andyd

Guys - I've shut them down for now - I'll spend some time on this tonight to unravel.


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> Surprised that my JAO got a second over my FAR superior Bouchet (Burnt Mead) that came last in the category (maybe the judges haven't had burnt mead before?) Oh well happy with a second for the JAO.. Might contact Michael Fairbrother (Moonlight Meadery) to check his opinion since there is not much knowledge locally.. Unless someone else here has extensive knowledge???.. we have to change that!


Rule #5: Judging will be by blind tasting. Judges decision will be final.

Your opinion of your own creations is clearly not the same as that of the Judges. You can ask for the opinion of whoever you want, but it won't change anything.

FYI, the most experienced Judge on that category is a very experienced Mead Maker & BJCP-qualified with over 22 years of Judging experience & has an excellent palate. He told me that he was very impressed with the other judges he worked with & would happily judge with them again.

The category was Stewarded by another experienced Mead Maker (I allocated him to the job deliberately) & whilst you don't get his opinion in writing, I can assure you that he felt the same way as the Judges on your entry. That's 4 against 1. I'll go with the odds & suggest you take on-board the comments you received.

Suck it up, Princess....


----------



## Grainer

MartinOC said:


> Rule #5: Judging will be by blind tasting. Judges decision will be final.
> 
> Your opinion of your own creations is clearly not the same as that of the Judges. You can ask for the opinion of whoever you want, but it won't change anything.
> 
> FYI, the most experienced Judge on that category is a very experienced Mead Maker & BJCP-qualified with over 22 years of Judging experience & has an excellent palate. He told me that he was very impressed with the other judges he worked with & would happily judge with them again.
> 
> The category was Stewarded by another experienced Mead Maker (I allocated him to the job deliberately) & whilst you don't get his opinion in writing, I can assure you that he felt the same way as the Judges on your entry. That's 4 against 1. I'll go with the odds & suggest you take on-board the comments you received.
> 
> Suck it up, Princess....


Didn't have an issue with the score.. just surprised, didn't expect the result.. probably like most with an unexpected result.


----------



## Grainer

Andyd said:


> Guys - I've shut them down for now - I'll spend some time on this tonight to unravel.


Thanks dude.. we all realise the *HUGE *effort you go to to do this.. Thanks


----------



## Grainer

NealK said:


> I just noticed that my Munich Dunkel scores were added up incorrectly. This should put me second in the category and by my calculations Joint second for champion brewer!
> If points for cider were counted I would be joint champion!


Congratulations if this is the case.. Great work!


----------



## Andyd

Folks - found the problem - a couple of calibration beer had snuck through the scanner on the day.

I'll adjust and re-publish once I get home tonight.

Andy


----------



## NealK

NealK said:


> I just noticed that my Munich Dunkel scores were added up incorrectly. This should put me second in the category and by my calculations Joint second for champion brewer!
> If points for cider were counted I would be joint champion!


oops, bad sums on my part, third place I think. Bloody happy with that though!


----------



## Andyd

OK all,

Scoresheets are back, and all linked correctly (Phew - that drained a bit of bandwidth  )

Let me know if you have any hassles, but I think it's right now.

Andy


----------



## primusbrew

Whereabouts on compmaster are the score sheets located? I can't seem to find them.

edit: just worked it out.


----------



## Andyd

My Account -> My Results...

The sorting's a bit messed up, but this comp should be at the top of the list.

Andy


----------



## MartinOC

Grainer said:


> Didn't have an issue with the score.. just surprised, didn't expect the result.. probably like most with an unexpected result.


How in hell could you POSSIBLY be surprised?!?!

You entered a Bouchet (which fits into "other mead") as a "sweet mead". It's obviously outside the guidelines for that style, so it got appropriately hammered.

I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you.


----------



## Grainer

Its not an other mead! get your shit straight .. it is just honey and water dude ..serious..it was a sweet mead. all it has is a cook involved..no other ingredients that would qualify it as an other.. OMG you so gotta pull your head in and stop throwing out outrageous accusations.


----------



## manticle

Settle down gentlemen.

Bouchet is specifically referred to in 2015 bjcp guidelines as belonging to 'historical mead' a subsection of specialty mead.

Not sure about aabc because I've only ever judged mead once as part of beerfest but most aabc cues are driven by bjcp.


----------



## manticle

Just checked aabc and while it doesn't mention bouchet in the section, historical meads fit into 'other mead'


----------



## Grainer

If that is the case happy to get stripped of the 2nd place ! I really don't care.. I entered into the category I thought it belonged! Bouchet or the style is not mentioned anywhere and from all I searched on the web no one knew which category it belonged. Leave it to Vicbrew and I will probably not send to nationals cause of this so called accusation. happy to hand over to someone else.


----------



## MartinOC

QED


----------



## Grainer

as expected


----------



## manticle

What's the accusation?
I'm confused.


----------



## Grainer

M4B. Historical Mead



[SIZE=9pt]A [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Historical Mead [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]is a historical or indigenous mead that doesn’t fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish meads). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category. [/SIZE]



[SIZE=9pt]Overall Impression: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]This mead should exhibit the character of all of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good blending or balance between the various flavor elements. *Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable as a honey-based fermented beverage. *[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]​[/SIZE]Bouchet[SIZE=9pt] does [/SIZE]not Qualify for Historical mead given this statement. Bouchet does not have an identifiable honey base or other ingredients that would require it to be balanced. It really doesnt naturally fit anywhere under the mead judging guidelines but clearly fits under sweet mead in the Beer BJCP.

​The accusation was that I tried to cheat by entering 2 x other meads.. one in an other category being a JAO and a bochet which is just honey and water and would qualify as a sweet mead given the BJCP guidelines.


----------



## manticle

No. Martin suggested you couldn't enter a second 'other' mead (presumably you already had one in because Jao is other?) so entered (perfectly legitimately) your bouchet in another style. Two per category, 1 per style is the rule - you obeyed that, no cheating, no accusation. I've entered stuff that may or may not fit perfectly before - perfectly acceptable. No suggestion you've done otherwise - just a suggestion you may have been aware it didn't fit (which breaches no rules) but entered anyway

Chill.

As for guidelines - check 2015 bjcp and search 'bouchet'


----------



## Grainer

QUOTE : "I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you."

So the clear accusation that was made is that I was trying to cheat the system.. hence why I am pissed off at Martin for being an absolute tool in the accusation. It is totally uncalled for.

manticle tried to search 2015.. but didn't get anywhere any assistance would be good for what you are trying to point me to.


----------



## manticle

I think you've misinterpreted what martin meant.
Reread.

Martin's suggestion, to my interpretation is -

IF you had entered two in other, you would have been breaking rules, likely disqualified and so INSTEAD you entered one in a category that the entry didn't properly fit.


----------



## manticle

Having trouble copy/paste from pdf on my phone but if you google bjcp 2015 mead, you should get a link to a pdf of guidelines. Section m4b specifically mentions bouchet. If you can't find it, let me know tomorrow and I'll copy/paste from work pc.


----------



## Grainer

manticle said:


> Having trouble copy/paste from pdf on my phone but if you google bjcp 2015 mead, you should get a link to a pdf of guidelines. Section mb4 specifically mentions bouchet. If you can't find it, let me know tomorrow and I'll copy/paste from work pc.




[SIZE=10pt]BJCP Mead Style Guidelines – 2015 Edition [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]M4B. Historical Mead [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]A [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Historical Mead [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]is a historical or indigenous mead that doesn’t fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish meads). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category. [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Overall Impression: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]This mead should exhibit the character of all of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good blending or balance between the various flavor elements. Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable as a honey-based fermented beverage. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Aroma, appearance, flavor, mouthfeel [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]generally follow the standard descriptions, yet note that all the characteristics may vary. Since a wide range of entries are possible, note that the characteristics may reflect combinations of the respective elements of the various sub-categories used in this style. Refer to Category M1 for a detailed description of the character of dry, semi-sweet and sweet mead. If the entered mead is a combination of other existing mead categories, refer to the constituent categories for a detailed description of the character of the component styles.[/SIZE]






[SIZE=9pt]Entry Instructions: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]See [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Introduction to Mead Guidelines [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]for entry requirements. [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Entrants [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]MUST [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]specify carbonation level, strength, and sweetness. Entrants [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]MAY [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]specify honey varieties. Entrants [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]MUST [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]specify the special nature of the mead, providing a description of the mead for judges if no such description is available from the BJCP. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Commercial Examples: [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]Jadwiga, Saba Tej [/SIZE]


----------



## manticle

The one I'm downloading says 'ethiopian tej, bouchet, polish mead'.


----------



## MartinOC

Slap!


----------



## Grainer

mine was from www.bjcp.org


----------



## manticle

Civility will be the dominant order of the day.


----------



## mezz94

So..... When and where do entries for AABC have to be submitted?


----------



## MartinOC

You should've already been contacted about that if you're a contender.

If not, shoot me a PM & I'll get you in touch with the blokes who can sort it out for you.


----------



## bullsneck

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't a JAO a Metheglin? I entered my JAO as that last year with good results.
Just sayin'.

Edit - just checked the guidelines and Metheglin is an 'Other Mead'. My bad. Back into my box.

Yellowbox, that is.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

MartinOC said:


> You should've already been contacted about that if you're a contender.
> 
> If not, shoot me a PM & I'll get you in touch with the blokes who can sort it out for you.


Will be in touch also Martin


----------



## NealK

Any ideas what the prizes are for the category winners?


----------



## manticle

Grainer said:


> mine was from www.bjcp.org



Here you go.

Admittedly confusing with so many editions - this is from BJCP consolidated guidelines 2015, found here: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Consolidated.pdf

*M4B. Historical Mead A Historical Mead is a historical or indigenous mead that doesn’t fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish meads, Bouchet). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category. Overall Impression: This mead should exhibit the character of all of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good blending or balance between the various flavor elements. Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable as a honey-based fermented beverage. Aroma, appearance, flavor, mouthfeel generally follow the standard descriptions, yet note that all the characteristics may vary. Since a wide range of entries are possible, note that the characteristics may reflect combinations of the respective elements of the various sub-categories used in this style. Refer to Category M1 for a detailed description of the character of dry, semi-sweet and sweet mead. If the entered mead is a combination of other existing mead categories, refer to the constituent categories for a detailed description of the character of the component styles. Entry Instructions: See Introduction to Mead Guidelines for entry requirements. Entrants MUST specify carbonation level, strength, and sweetness. Entrants MAY specify honey varieties. Entrants MUST specify the special nature of the mead, providing a description of the mead for judges if no such description is available from the BJCP. Commercial Examples: Jadwiga, Saba Tej*

Italics mine.


----------



## Grainer

thank you for the clarification You must have had to search a long time! mine isn't a classical bochet but had that name..mistake on the naming on my behalf then when entering.. should have been "caramelised sweet mead"... it had no additives like a classical bochet.


----------



## mxd

NealK said:


> Any ideas what the prizes are for the category winners?


trophies


----------



## brianvcskin

MartinOC said:


> You should've already been contacted about that if you're a contender.
> 
> If not, shoot me a PM & I'll get you in touch with the blokes who can sort it out for you.


Still no word on entries when and how to submit. Just curious what's happening.


----------



## Black n Tan

mxd said:


> trophies


and glory :beerbang:


----------



## MartinOC

Just a few "small" points for everyone to consider...(& one person in particular...):

1. I (MartinOC) am NOT the official voice of Vicbrew on this forum. I just happen to be more active here than others on the Committee. My opinions & comments are my own & I stand by them 100%. Got a problem? PM me & we can sort it out. Mostly, but not always, amicably....

2. If you have a query about where to place one of your entries in future, I'm more than happy to guide you (as has happened earlier in this thread).

3. Bleating because the Judges didn't think your creation wasn't as good as you thought it was is fruitless. If you put it into the wrong category or sub-style, suck it up, Princess... It's the rules of entry.

4. Personally contacting the BJCP to adjudicate on the matter is fruitless - they defer to the individual competition organiser, as has happened.

5. Contacting Vicbrew, requesting to chastise an individual member of the Committee over personal comments here & demanding a public apology will just make you even MORE of a laughing-stock than you are already. And you already ARE laughing-stock....within the Committee & here amongst the AHB community.

On a personal level, you can GET FUCKED if you expect an apology from me - privately or publicly.

You know who you are...

Edit: You dug the hole...now you have to lay in it...

Edit #2: Well! No surprises that you've blocked PM's from me - Don't want to hear the bad news, eh? Just bury your head in the sand & make-out you're God's-gift to the brewing community, eh?? If you won't hear it privately, then I guess I'll just have to do it publicly..


----------



## Yob

Rule something or other.. Judges decisions are final... Blah blah..

The end.

Been rather disgruntled at judges comments and descriptions in the past myself.. 

See rule above.

Gotta admit, my scores got better when I entered the beers correctly


----------



## barls

ok not involved in this comp at all.
saying that your entitled to your opinion but abusing those that did the judging isn't on. as a judge if i stuffed up so be it, if i judged the beer or mead in front of me as i see it, thats it we can only judge what we get with the info that you as the entrant supplies. **** i stuffed mine up this year and didnt do that well. you don't see me calling a commercial mead maker from another country to confirm what i did wrong. no i sucked it up and moved on. maybe you should as well.
if you feel that the other one is far superior then enter it in place of the second place one.
your allowed to enter one in the same category aren't you????
personally if i was one of the judges your vindicating id be pissed off that you chose to air this publicly rather than contacting them as per the contact details on the form.


----------



## Grainer

OK I will respond now… I have given this some thought and time now and of course it is all directed at me everyone knows that.

Yes, you are correct Barls and Yob, I did go about this the wrong way and I should have contacted the judges concerned to get their opinions in the background as per the form via email.. in hindsight that would have been a better approach. Unfortunately, I had posted what was on my mind without giving it too much thought of the ramification of what I was writing at the time, seems to be a common trait of mine but no offence was intended. At no stage did I intend on insulting the judges..that being the case I realise I may have done this and I am sorry to those judges.

I have done my own research into the mead in question through both Vicbrew and BJCP and yes it should have gone into “other meads” but at the time of entry, I thought it should be in “sweet meads” and hence entered it there. This is an honest mistake unlike what I have been accused of.

At no point was I suggesting my scores should be changed and am quite fine with the final scores.. I said was that I was surprised with one mead… and as stated, I should have sent a PM to the judges in question to get their feedback rather than the way I went about it. This is noted for the future and a harsh lesson learnt for me. I had several beers that did VERY badly and have never questioned these, all the comments were great and the feedback spot on.

Just to be clear, at no stage did I abuse anyone all the abuse has been directed to me to date, some called for other not.

I love home brewing and contributing to this forum and think it is a great way to connect. I am a very giving person of my time when it comes to brewing and I am a little bit of a perfectionist/scientist .. I love it.. I am passionate about a lot of things.. and this comes across in my personality.. I am a little full on at times and this is often mistaken for other things, I understand how this is perceived by others.. give it time and maybe you will understand who I really am if you wish.

This is where I will leave it. Hopefully I can apologise to those judges in person at some stage over a beer if they like.

cheers
Grainer


----------



## timmi9191

I believe you dont define a person by their mistakes (we all make them) but by how the person recovers from those mistakes.

Mistake made. Mistake admitted. Apology given. Life goes on...


----------



## WarmerBeer

It takes a big man to apologise. It takes an even bigger one to apologise in front of an audience.

Well done, Grainer. Onwards and upwards!


----------



## idzy

Well done for the candid apology John, we all know you are a passionate man. Keep on brewing!


----------



## evvy.rogerson

Are we all reading the same thread here? Grainer has CLEARLY been abused by Martin OC, the Head Steward of Vicbrew. This is deplorable behaviour for a competition official. In fact it's borderline inappropriate for anyone on this forum. Vile behaviour like this brings shame on the whole brewing community. 

So let's break this down. What has Grainer done to deserve this abuse? 




Grainer said:


> Heads up.. my Baltic Porter feedback sheet belongs to someone else on compmaster ??? is it possible to fix this?
> 
> Surprised that my JAO got a second over my FAR superior Bouchet (Burnt Mead) that came last in the category (maybe the judges haven't had burnt mead before?) Oh well happy with a second for the JAO.. Might contact Michael Fairbrother (Moonlight Meadery) to check his opinion since there is not much knowledge locally.. Unless someone else here has extensive knowledge???.. we have to change that!


Okay, he does question the judges decision regarding his results, but acknowledges that this may have been due to an interpretation of the style guidelines. 




MartinOC said:


> Rule #5: Judging will be by blind tasting. Judges decision will be final.
> 
> Your opinion of your own creations is clearly not the same as that of the Judges. You can ask for the opinion of whoever you want, but it won't change anything.
> 
> FYI, the most experienced Judge on that category is a very experienced Mead Maker & BJCP-qualified with over 22 years of Judging experience & has an excellent palate. He told me that he was very impressed with the other judges he worked with & would happily judge with them again.
> 
> The category was Stewarded by another experienced Mead Maker (I allocated him to the job deliberately) & whilst you don't get his opinion in writing, I can assure you that he felt the same way as the Judges on your entry. That's 4 against 1. I'll go with the odds & suggest you take on-board the comments you received.
> 
> Suck it up, Princess....


Rather than addressing the style guidelines, MartinOC chooses to attack Grainer, suggesting he doesn't deserve an opinion. He could have addressed Grainer with a PM, but chooses to attempt to publicly ridicule him. 



Grainer said:


> Didn't have an issue with the score.. just surprised, didn't expect the result.. probably like most with an unexpected result.


Grainer shows maturity and doesn't bite. 



Grainer said:


> Thanks dude.. we all realise the *HUGE *effort you go to to do this.. Thanks


In fact he thanks MartinOC for his stewarding efforts.


----------



## evvy.rogerson

MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 7:34 PM, said:
How in hell could you POSSIBLY be surprised?!?!

You entered a Bouchet (which fits into "other mead") as a "sweet mead". It's obviously outside the guidelines for that style, so it got appropriately hammered.

I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you.

But MartinOC always wants the last word. Maybe he has an inferiority complex and feels a need to constantly prove his position. He claims that the guidelines make it clear where the beer should have been entered, but another forum member, Manticle, appears to have been somewhat confused by the style guidelines as well, so it is arguably not clear at all. 
Then, completely unprovoked, MartinOC accuses Grainer of attempting to cheat. This is really not okay, especially for a Head Steward. Right here I start to think that MartinOC should be stripped of his duties in future competitions. 

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 7:43 PM, said:
Its not an other mead! get your shit straight .. it is just honey and water dude ..serious..it was a sweet mead. all it has is a cook involved..no other ingredients that would qualify it as an other.. OMG you so gotta pull your head in and stop throwing out outrageous accusations.

Under attack, Grainer rightfully responds. He accuse MartinOC of bias. He doesn't question his qualifications. But he does rightfully admonish his attitude.

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:10 PM, said:
If that is the case happy to get stripped of the 2nd place ! I really don't care.. I entered into the category I thought it belonged! Bouchet or the style is not mentioned anywhere and from all I searched on the web no one knew which category it belonged. Leave it to Vicbrew and I will probably not send to nationals cause of this so called accusation. happy to hand over to someone else.


MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:12 PM, said:
QED

MartinOC could apologise, but instead acts smug.

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:14 PM, said:
as expected


----------



## evvy.rogerson

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:19 PM, said:
[SIZE=14.6667px]M4B. Historical Mead[/SIZE]
A Historical Mead is a historical or indigenous mead that doesn’t fit into another subcategory (e.g., Ethiopian tej, Polish meads). The BJCP welcomes submissions of writeups of historical or indigenous styles that fit into this category. 
Overall Impression: This mead should exhibit the character of all of the ingredients in varying degrees, and should show a good blending or balance between the various flavor elements.Whatever ingredients are included, the result should be identifiable as a honey-based fermented beverage. 

​Bouchet does not Qualify for Historical mead given this statement. Bouchet does not have an identifiable honey base or other ingredients that would require it to be balanced. It really doesnt naturally fit anywhere under the mead judging guidelines but clearly fits under sweet mead in the Beer BJCP.

​The accusation was that I tried to cheat by entering 2 x other meads.. one in an other category being a JAO and a bochet which is just honey and water and would qualify as a sweet mead given the BJCP guidelines.

Grainer addresses his initial concerns, asking for clarification about style guidelines. 

Grainer, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:28 PM, said:
QUOTE : "I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt. Nice try - fail...the judges on the day got the better of you."

So the clear accusation that was made is that I was trying to cheat the system.. hence why I am pissed off at Martin for being an absolute tool in the accusation. It is totally uncalled for.

manticle tried to search 2015.. but didn't get anywhere any assistance would be good for what you are trying to point me to.

Grainer accuses MartinOC of being a 'tool' because he accused Grainer of cheating. I think that's more than fair. He was a MASSIVE tool. 

manticle, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:55 PM, said:
The one I'm downloading says 'ethiopian tej, bouchet, polish mead'.


MartinOC, on 14 Sept 2016 - 8:55 PM, said:
Slap!

Again, MartinOC attempts to belittle Grainer.

Grainer, on 15 Sept 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:
thank you for the clarification You must have had to search a long time! mine isn't a classical bochet but had that name..mistake on the naming on my behalf then when entering.. should have been "caramelised sweet mead"... it had no additives like a classical bochet.

Again, Grainer shows maturity by not responding. 

MartinOC, on 20 Sept 2016 - 9:07 PM, said:
Just a few "small" points for everyone to consider...(& one person in particular...):

1. I (MartinOC) am NOT the official voice of Vicbrew on this forum. I just happen to be more active here than others on the Committee. My opinions & comments are my own & I stand by them 100%. Got a problem? PM me & we can sort it out. Mostly, but not always, amicably....

2. If you have a query about where to place one of your entries in future, I'm more than happy to guide you (as has happened earlier in this thread).

3. Bleating because the Judges didn't think your creation wasn't as good as you thought it was is fruitless. If you put it into the wrong category or sub-style, suck it up, Princess... It's the rules of entry.

4. Personally contacting the BJCP to adjudicate on the matter is fruitless - they defer to the individual competition organiser, as has happened.

5. Contacting Vicbrew, requesting to chastise an individual member of the Committee over personal comments here & demanding a public apology will just make you even MORE of a laughing-stock than you are already. And you already ARE laughing-stock....within the Committee & here amongst the AHB community.

On a personal level, you can GET FUCKED if you expect an apology from me - privately or publicly.

You know who you are...

Edit: You dug the hole...now you have to lay in it...

Edit #2: Well! No surprises that you've blocked PM's from me - Don't want to hear the bad news, eh? Just bury your head in the sand & make-out you're God's-gift to the brewing community, eh?? If you won't hear it privately, then I guess I'll just have to do it publicly..

MartinOC gets up on his high horse again. He created this forum topic, and answers questions in this topic as if he speaks for VicBrew, but now attempts to distance himself from his role as Head Steward. In this forum, and in this topic especially, he is acting as Head Steward and his behaviour should be judged accordingly. 

He again abuses Grainer, accusing him of bleating, calling him a Princess again, and a laughing-stock. 

And for the finale, tells Grainer to "GET FUCKED".

Grainer, on 21 Sept 2016 - 7:18 PM, said:
OK I will respond now… I have given this some thought and time now and of course it is all directed at me everyone knows that.

Yes, you are correct Barls and Yob, I did go about this the wrong way and I should have contacted the judges concerned to get their opinions in the background as per the form via email.. in hindsight that would have been a better approach. Unfortunately, I had posted what was on my mind without giving it too much thought of the ramification of what I was writing at the time, seems to be a common trait of mine but no offence was intended. At no stage did I intend on insulting the judges..that being the case I realise I may have done this and I am sorry to those judges.

I have done my own research into the mead in question through both Vicbrew and BJCP and yes it should have gone into “other meads” but at the time of entry, I thought it should be in “sweet meads” and hence entered it there. This is an honest mistake unlike what I have been accused of.

At no point was I suggesting my scores should be changed and am quite fine with the final scores.. I said was that I was surprised with one mead… and as stated, I should have sent a PM to the judges in question to get their feedback rather than the way I went about it. This is noted for the future and a harsh lesson learnt for me. I had several beers that did VERY badly and have never questioned these, all the comments were great and the feedback spot on.

Just to be clear, at no stage did I abuse anyone all the abuse has been directed to me to date, some called for other not.

I love home brewing and contributing to this forum and think it is a great way to connect. I am a very giving person of my time when it comes to brewing and I am a little bit of a perfectionist/scientist .. I love it.. I am passionate about a lot of things.. and this comes across in my personality.. I am a little full on at times and this is often mistaken for other things, I understand how this is perceived by others.. give it time and maybe you will understand who I really am if you wish.

This is where I will leave it. Hopefully I can apologise to those judges in person at some stage over a beer if they like.

cheers
Grainer

And yet again Grainer shows restraint. 

So what was Grainer's mistake here? He certainly wasn't the only person to question the results:

GalBrew, on 13 Sept 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:
dannymars, on 13 Sept 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:
Reading the score sheet... It's definitely not my beer...

"No hops, no bitterness, watery, 0 carbonation... Almost porter in darkness." All impossible descriptors for the beer I submitted.

I counter-pressure filled (should hold carb)... plus, it was a 200+ IBU beer. I doubt any beer that bitter is going to change in the bottle to that degree.

Also, out of the 3 IIPA scoresheets, one of them is a sheet I wrote for a Robust Porter.
-------------------
That description is spot on for the beer we got back from the judges. Brown, tasteless, watery and flat. We were all confused behind the bar too if it makes you feel better.

After every competition questions are asked about the results. So did Grainer deserve this abuse? And even if he was in the wrong, is it appropriate for the Head Steward to abuse entrants like this? Is it even okay for people to abuse other Aussie Home Brewer forum members like this? 

I say it's not okay, and it's left an awful taste in my mouth.

Grainer, you are the kind of passionate brewer that brings value to this forum, and the brewing community generally. You have shown impressive maturity in this situation, and I hope that other forum members can find the courage to support you. 

MartinOC, your actions are deplorable. You have completely disgraced yourself, and VicBrew by association, and need to apologise, wholeheartedly, to Grainer immediately. I don't see how you can continue in any formal position at future competitions, but that is not my decision to make. I have stewarded and judged at VicBrew and have no intention of volunteering my time again, or even entering, as long as you are associated with the competition.


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## Grainer

..I think this is over for now.. lets move on we all do things our own ways sometimes intentions are mistaken on all sides.. have a beer ..it always helps in moderation


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## NealK

I thought this issue was dead and buried.
Comments supporting either side are just dredging up issues that are dead and buried.
Personally I believe that losing either the most experienced competition coordinator or an excellent brewer and judge would be a loss to the brewing community in Victoria. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but, as both parties involved have stated, the opinions that they have shared on here would have been better discussed privately. Lets move on people!

Good luck to everyone that has qualified for the nationals, lets hope Victoria wins!


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## evvy.rogerson

I don't see how it can be "dead and buried" in this topic until MartinOC has apologised, profusely.


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## NealK

evvy.rogerson said:


> I don't see how it can be "dead and buried" in this topic until MartinOC has apologised, profusely.


The only opinions that matter are those of the two parties involved so it doesn't really matter what you can or can't see mate, Relax, don't worry have a home brew.


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## droid

profusely? he did that already but you may have missed it.

sleeping dogs mate, NealK said it - have a homie


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## evvy.rogerson

Relax, don't worry, be abusive.


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## evvy.rogerson

droid said:


> profusely? he did that already but you may have missed it.
> 
> sleeping dogs mate, NealK said it - have a homie


Where did MartinOC apologise?


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## MartinOC

@evvy.rogerson - Yawn....


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## manticle

As I said earlier : civility will be the order of the day.

Evvy - if Martin's longer post had been openly addressing a specific poster, some moderation would have been applied. However the target was unspecified, Grainer put his hand up. There may have been more from behind the scenes on either side unseen here.

Additionally I have not seen where Martin accused Grainer of cheating - I believe that has been inferred incorrectly by both yourself and Grainer initially.

If you want to continue the discussion, either do it via pm, email to vicbrew or really, really politely here.

As I know personally a few of the parties involved I will step away from moderation but have asked fellow mods further removed to keep an eye and lock/hide anything that gets out of hand.


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## MartinOC

Thanks, Manticle.

Previous attempts to sort this out via PM's found me deliberately blocked from communication & previous conversations we've had have somehow disappeared from my inbox. 

I tried......


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## evvy.rogerson

By that logic, there is a REAL F*CKING WANKER COWARD involved with VicBrew. 

Since I have not addressed anyone specifically I have not done anything wrong. 


"I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt."

How can you interpret this comment as anything other than an accusation of cheating? 

It certainly isn't the word "guessing". If I say "I guess you're a wanker" I'm accusing you of being a wanker. 

And it can't be "& decided to take a punt". If I accuse you of "taking a punt" on counting cards at the casino because you weren't allowed to write down what the cards are I'm accusing you of cheating.


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## evvy.rogerson

Try publicly MartinOC.


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## evvy.rogerson

That might show a depth of character that extends beyond cowardice.


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## evvy.rogerson

And I don't know what this is. Is it a threat, or an admission of guilt?


MartinOC


Insert something suitably witty here




Members






























2,171 posts
Joined 10-January 10



Sent Today, 07:30 PM
Ain't gonna happen. Publicly, privately or profusely. Too much history. End of story.

Drop it.
Just the ONE international prize...

Bummocker to the Cogniscenti

Back to top
Reply


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## barls

evvy.rogerson said:


> Relax, don't worry, be abusive.


your treading close to rule 15 mate


> 15. Posts believed to be "trolling", off-topic or deliberately hijacking a thread will be deleted.


this was previously sorted


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## evvy.rogerson

This is very "on-topic" for what has been previously discussed, and was definitely not "sorted". We can get it "sorted" right now if MartinOC just finds his balls and apologises. 

And "trolling"? Please. I am addressing the behaviour of the 2016 VicBrew Head Steward in a thread titled VICBREW 2016 where he abuses an entrant. 

Feel free to look at how long I have been a member and how much "trolling" I have done. I am simply admonishing deplorable behaviour in the public forum that it was conducted.


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## MartinOC

@ evvy.rogerson

Geez, you're really coming-across as Grainer's alter-ego here. Or maybe there's only ONE ego in play here, eh, John?

Barls, quite happy for you to delete anything you feel is inappropriate & off-topic here. 'sounds like a dummy-spit to me. Let's keep it to the topic of Vicbrew & not a bitch-fight.

Cheers,

Martin


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## timmi9191

Cmon, I just broke out the pop corn...


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## manticle

evvy.rogerson said:


> "I'm guessing you couldn't enter two "others" (thus breaking the rules) & decided to take a punt."
> 
> How can you interpret this comment as anything other than an accusation of cheating?


I addressed this earlier but will do it again here.

It is perfectly within rules to enter into a category even if the entry does not specifically fit/is outside.

IF an entrant entered 2 into 1 style, THAT would be cheating (and likely disqualified).

If an entrant has 2 entries that fit one style, they can still enter both but in different styles. One may be 'misfit' - perfectly acceptable, perfectly within the rules, just may be picked up by judges as being out of style.

No accusation of cheating - in fact the suggestion is that cheating was avoided by entering in a less suitable category or style. The suggestion is NOT that the rules were actually broken.


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## manticle

Evvy has not posted much but joined well before Grainer so I don't think we need to make speculations.

Said as a member, not a mod. I'm leaving modding this thread to others.


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## Mardoo

Shit's gone down. Let's not step in it and track it indoors.


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## bradsbrew

Evvy.rogerson Martin and Grainer had, of sorts, resolved and moved on within the open forum . 
Your input is not required and from an outsiders perspective is causing more harm than good to Vicbrew. You have been asked by 2 moderators to leave it alone. Please take your concerns to Vicbrew .


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## evvy.rogerson

I see what you're saying with the two styles Manticle. You're right, it wouldn't be possible to cheat per se, but I think the implication is still there that Grainer intended to somehow gain an advantage, but the judges caught him out, and that's an inappropriate comment from a Head Steward.


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## MartinOC

timmi9191 said:


> Cmon, I just broke out the pop corn...


Sorry to disappoint you, mate. This guy's not worth wasting breath on. Eventually he'll get the message....



Mardoo said:


> Shit's gone down. Let's not step in it and track it indoors.


You Bugger Mardoo! You changed your post " Hmmm, 20 active posts, 11 on this topic..." just as I was about to say "Curiouser & curiouser"..


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## Zorco

MartinOC has been lucky to come away without a bloody nose it seems. But there is a foul stench in here that will take time to forget irrespective of his opinions.

Meh, online forums


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## Cocko

Hi Guys,

Whats news?


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## bradsbrew

Cocko said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Whats news?


You won the whole comp. Congratulations.


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## MartinOC

No luck in it at all, mate.

Contrary to the previous suggestions that I'm a coward, I put it to you that I've actually got the balls to be vocal enough to help push-out someone whose presence in the Victorian Homebrewing community is universally disliked/distasteful.

The same thing happened with another person of similar personality in the mid-'90's, which is why we now have strict entry-rules for Vicbrew. Within the Committee, they're referred-to as the "MJ" rules & he's no longer around. It's all happening all over again with this bloke.

Draw your own conclusions from the preceding posts.


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## evvy.rogerson

bradsbrew said:


> Evvy.rogerson Martin and Grainer had, of sorts, resolved and moved on within the open forum .
> Your input is not required and from an outsiders perspective is causing more harm than good to Vicbrew. You have been asked by 2 moderators to leave it alone. Please take your concerns to Vicbrew .


I certainly don't mean to cause harm to VicBrew. I value the competition, having entered the past three years and have both stewarded and judged. I will definitely be taking my concerns to VicBrew. 


The harm here is caused by MartinOC. I wish he hadn't tarnished the reputation of VicBrew but he has, and only he can take the steps to set things right by apologising.


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## timmi9191

Cocko said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Whats news?


moving onto my second bag of popcorn.. and thinking of casting this thread onto the big screen


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## Mardoo

manticle said:


> Evvy has not posted much but joined well before Grainer so I don't think we need to make speculations.
> 
> Said as a member, not a mod. I'm leaving modding this thread to others.





MartinOC said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, mate. This guy's not worth wasting breath on. Eventually he'll get the message....
> 
> You Bugger Mardoo! You changed your post " Hmmm, 20 active posts, 11 on this topic..." just as I was about to say "Curiouser & curiouser"..


I did. I saw Manticle's immediately after I posted mine and felt mine - which you have quoted accurately and I have no shame in - was unnecessary due to the enrolment of evvy prior to Grainer. A lesson in fact checking before getting snarky.

"The only true apology is when one apologises to one's own heart, one's own values, one's own recognition, and not to public opinion." Me.


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## MartinOC

I hereby truly & humbly apologise to the Victorian Homebrewing Community at large for not acting sooner on this issue when I first identified it. I value you guys/us.

I apologise to everyone for defending this bloke to them (giving him the benefit of the doubt), when the alarm-bells were going-off in my head. I compromised my own values by doing-so.

I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks of me - if they don't like me, that's their problem. Call it my ego, but it's robust, not terribly fragile. I have MANY more friends than enemies & that's a testament to the way I interact with people. 

I was a complete fool on this issue.

Please forgive me.


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## Zorco

VicBrew With puppies


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## DU99

Bring on 2017..


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## malt junkie

MartinOC said:


> I hereby truly & humbly apologise to the Victorian Homebrewing Community at large for not acting sooner on this issue when I first identified it. I value you guys/us.
> 
> I apologise to everyone for defending this bloke to them (giving him the benefit of the doubt), when the alarm-bells were going-off in my head. I compromised my own values by doing-so.
> 
> I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks of me - if they don't like me, that's their problem. Call it my ego, but it's robust, not terribly fragile. I have MANY more friends than enemies & that's a testament to the way I interact with people.
> 
> I was a complete fool on this issue.
> 
> Please forgive me.


Abso-*******-lutely how the hell did you let Cocko win Vicbrew?? 
We're never going to hear the bloody end of it.

Hell I may as well break my reading glasses now, maybe the blur will ease the pain.

I need a beer!


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## GrumpyPaul

True story.

Once when I was a young smart arse I did something that questioned the integrity of a senior manager in my organisation. I was made to write him a apology.

So I wrote to him " I'm sorry you misunderstood" - which if that wasn't clearly "Sorry, not sorry" I went on to sign it "sincerely" (with the quotation marks) so it was clear I was really being sincere.

A certain recent post in this thread has a very similar ring to it.


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## barls

evvy.rogerson said:


> This is very "on-topic" for what has been previously discussed, and was definitely not "sorted". We can get it "sorted" right now if MartinOC just finds his balls and apologises.
> 
> And "trolling"? Please. I am addressing the behaviour of the 2016 VicBrew Head Steward in a thread titled VICBREW 2016 where he abuses an entrant.
> 
> Feel free to look at how long I have been a member and how much "trolling" I have done. I am simply admonishing deplorable behaviour in the public forum that it was conducted.


trolling isn't for you to decide but the mods and admin.
do we need a little break to decide what is acceptable.
as I've said this has already been dealt with by the moderation team.


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## MartinOC

DU99 said:


> Bring on 2017..


Amen, brother!!



malt junkie said:


> Abso-*******-lutely how the hell did you let Cocko win Vicbrew??
> We're never going to hear the bloody end of it.


He introduced me to Timmi & after a 12-hour marathon involving several watermelons & a Kg of personal lubricant, I was mere putty in his hands....

I think I owe another apology here...... h34r:


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## barls

MartinOC said:


> Amen, brother!!
> 
> He introduced me to Timmi & after a 12-hour marathon involving several watermelons & a Kg of personal lubricant, I was mere putty in his hands....
> 
> I think I owe another apology here...... h34r:


we use the military policy here of don't ask don't tell.
lets leave it at that.


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## WarmerBeer

Cocko said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Whats news?


Not much, pretty quiet around here. 

Congrats on your win.


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## Yob

For the whiners in the gallery..

I got slammed for my cider entry, out of style, the type of cider I made didn't fit the style guidelines.. Do you know what I didn't do?

Make a big song and dance about the whole issue, I either didn't read the guidelines correctly...or at all...

Life's to short to give two shits about a comp entry not doing what I WANTED OR FELT it should be..

Get a life, move on, mind your own damn business, take it off-line if you feel you must have a say on something that doesn't involve you, above all

Let the issue here rest.


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## DU99

Amen...Yob


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## barls

evvy.rogerson said:


> If someone is trolling do something about it barls. You're a moderator. But it seems to me you're just threatened by a "noob with 23 posts" that doesn't deserve an opinion.
> 
> And if you really are a moderator, you'll discipline MartinOC for breaching site rule #5
> 5. Threatening, slanderous, abusive or deliberately inflammatory messages are not to be posted and may be removed at the discretion of the site administrators
> 
> Put your money where your mouth is.


as has been said 4 time it has already been sorted about a week ago.
as for a threat its not, its moderation


ok for the rest of us good work on the places people, lets move on to the nationals.


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## Yob

Pretty excited about a Nat's entry actually.. wish I could be there for it


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## NealK

Wish I could be there too, I've got 4 entries in this year! Very very excited.


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## bradsbrew

Good to see a former BABBS member take out champion brewer..................looks like another Qlder in the Nationals


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## droid

You know it's one thing to taunt a fello competitor with your glass that you won, reminding him that he didn't win anything, nah nah nee nah nah ... as if he needed reminding. But to be able to wave a box of glasses under someones nose, now that's accomplishment right there!

and to witness two grown men fighting over boxes to put all their winnings in was truly disgusting behaviour and that is something I do not wish to be a part of again, at least not as a spectator lol.

Being there for the VIC awards was good fun. Good luck all in the big event.


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## MartinOC

droid said:


> Being there for the VIC awards was good fun.


Yeah, the awards "ceremony" is always a bit of blowing-off of steam after all the hard work is done.

If there was no razzing from the peanut-gallery & a bit of shenanigans, it just wouldn't be the same fun that Vicbrew always is.

During the committee debrief, we discussed having a "Book-end" award as a bit of a laugh, where someone gets 1st & last in a particular category. Rare, but it does happen (done it myself, as have other members of the committee).

Some folks (no names will be mentioned) take it waaay too seriously.... 

It's all fun...ya just gotta have a laugh at yourself sometimes...


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## Yob

The more I think about this comp the more pleased I am..

I entered 5

RIS = Third
Other Specialty = Equal third, missed out on countback
APA = Equal Third missed out on countback

Cider = Bombed (predictably as out of style, should have been in other Cider)
Wood Aged RIS = bit confused about this one but meh.. still scored reasonably

Overall, a vast improvement on past comps so with a wider view toward averages, seems my game is lifting.

Once again, thanks to all Judges, stewards and all who turned up for the event, I look forward, again, to next year.


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## Zorco

Yob said:


> Overall, a vast improvement on past comps so with a wider view toward averages, seems my game is lifting.



That's the objective!

Do you try and enter the same set of styles each year, focusing on a few and playing around with a couple more?


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## MartinOC

He focuses on RIS & other high-gravity monsters...but then, so do a lot of others with an inclination to the Juice-Junkie in all of us...


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## Yob

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> That's the objective!
> 
> Do you try and enter the same set of styles each year, focusing on a few and playing around with a couple more?


I entered a cider this year :blink:

Specialty
RIS
IPA
APA

these are my general entry points


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## MartinOC

Yob said:


> I entered a cider this year :blink:
> 
> these are my general entry points


Did she enjoy your unusual entry points??


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## Yob

dunno, but I did


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## [email protected]_dan

Fook Mi, looks like our Doppelbock placed 3rd in the Strong Lager AABC!


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## Mr. No-Tip

[email protected]_dan said:


> Fook Mi, looks like our Doppelbock placed 3rd in the Strong Lager AABC!


It was pretty solid. Top end of town (the number one was more a subtle but perfectly balanced low end of style) but real tasty!


----------

