# Making Sourdough Bread



## jimmyjack (29/6/08)

Recently, I have started to make bread with a newly purchased bread machine that looks not unlike the Tartis from Dr Who. I wanted to embark on this wholesome quest to fulfill several family and personal needs. Since starting brewing I find myself drawn to home crafts and learning the ways of the ancients and oh yea a loaf of bread costs roughly $1.37 to make. My first efforts failed miserably reminiscent of my first brewing experiment with extract. Marching forward I researched and came up with some reasonable recipes that are turning out great white and whole-grain loaves for the whole family. In my bread research I have uncovered ways in which to make Sourdough bread of all sizes and varieties. To my surprise artisan bread making is not unlike brewing and very habit forming. Sourdough requires you to make a natural yeast starter over the course of a few weeks. In fact you can even purchase starters from the US. Once you have your starter you can make Sourdough forever. 

Sourdough link
Sourdough link
Sourdough companion

Cheers,

JJ


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## Mercs Own (29/6/08)

jimmyjack said:


> Recently, I have started to make bread with a newly purchased bread machine that looks not unlike the Tartis from Dr Who. I wanted to embark on this wholesome quest to fulfill several family and personal needs. Since starting brewing I find myself drawn to home crafts and learning the ways of the ancients and oh yea a loaf of bread costs roughly $1.37 to make. My first efforts failed miserably reminiscent of my first brewing experiment with extract. Marching forward I researched and came up with some reasonable recipes that are turning out great white and whole-grain loaves for the whole family. In my bread research I have uncovered ways in which to make Sourdough bread of all sizes and varieties. To my surprise artisan bread making is not unlike brewing and very habit forming. Sourdough requires you to make a natural yeast starter over the course of a few weeks. In fact you can even purchase starters from the US. Once you have your starter you can make Sourdough forever.
> 
> Sourdough link
> Sourdough link
> ...



Ah JJ next you will ba making your own salami!!!

I made my own sourdoughs for a couple of years and had two starters going for that period. One was a wild ferment from organic grapes the other was a starter from a bottle of chimay red. They both had a lovely qualities and character - the beer starter I would use for darker heavier loaves.

Never used a bread making machine though always rolled it out into a shape on the tray and baked it - if it was a wet mix it would spread flat on the tray, sometimes I would use the old fashion heavy bread baking loaf tins.

I would like to get back to it but as I am travelling a lot at the moment I would not be around to feed them every second or third day.

Good luck and when you get a recipe going that is working really good for you post it here.

cheers


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## Doc (29/6/08)

What a timely topic.
I'm researching it as well, right now based on my wifes obsession with Sourdough bread, and a new beer cooking book I bought in the US.

I see the Perth boys are on to it too.

Looking to get a sourdough starter going maybe tonight/tomorrow ready for my first batch.
I think I have the perfect culture going in the brewshed for it too (anyone who has been to my brew shed will know what I'm talking about  )

The base recipe I'm starting with also includes beer in the sourdough bread :beerbang:

Doc


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## kirem (29/6/08)

I have made some sourdough. Pretty good stuff.

I have two starters. One I let go to see what would grow, this one has a very strong flavour,

the other I used a commercial bakers yeast in a starter.

Both ran for about 2 weeks before I started using them.

Now I tip the clear liquid off the top and add a bit of flour and warm water every second day and use them every weekend. The sour dough loaves last a lot longer than ANY other bread I have purchased before going stale or mouldy.

I am planning a sough rye dough

Once you have a good starter going, you won't tolerate white death anymore.


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## Airgead (1/7/08)

I used to make all our bread. Beautiful sourdough using my own starter. Did wholemeal, white and a really nice rye. Did it for a couple of years but unfortunately had to stop when the kids came along - not enough time. Now that they are old enough to help I might have to start again. Mind you it would be a full time job keeping up with their appetites...

You've inspired me. I'll fire up a starter and get some home made sourdough happening again.

Cheers
Dave


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## smudge (2/7/08)

Basic Brewing Radio had a good show where John Owen gave a description of sourdough baking here. He covered
the basics and more advanced techniques, all from a brewer's perspective which was good.

My problem? Fitting in the sourdough bread making, Merc's salami, biltong/jerky, cheese making and still
having time to brew.

Cheers,
smudge

PS it was the January 10th 2008 podcast.


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## Airgead (2/7/08)

smudge said:


> ng in the sourdough bread making, Merc's salami, biltong/jerky, cheese making and still
> having time to brew.
> 
> Cheers,
> smudge



Maybe you could combine them... a bit of sourdough starter in the mash when you make your next wit perhaps? Might give that a go myself to get a bit of extra tartness going.

Cheers
Dave


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## smudge (2/7/08)

Dave,

Mmmmm..... I knew I stuffed it up! I mashed the salami with the camembert and dry 'jerked??' with the biltong in the keg.
I did have the sourdough starter on a stirplate though. Should I decant the starter or just pitch the slurry ....?

Cheers,
smudge

(wish I knew how to put your quote at the top of the post. I tried.... I really did try!)


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## Doc (2/7/08)

I've got my starter up and running.
I have all the details in my AHB Blog entry here
Plan on putting 355ml of my Gose into the bread mix too :beerbang:

Beers,
Doc


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## Katherine (2/7/08)

My partner and i make a beautiful stout sour dough.... goes down well with aged cheddar... good with soup also.. I love this thread. Dont know how I missed it until today.


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## Katherine (2/7/08)

> Ah JJ next you will ba making your own salami!!!
> 
> I made my own sourdoughs for a couple of years and had two starters going for that period. One was a wild ferment from organic grapes the other was a starter from a bottle of chimay red. They both had a lovely qualities and character - the beer starter I would use for darker heavier loaves.
> 
> ...




A question to you...

Is the beer one a wild yeast starter, or are you using the beer for the yeast???

We have tried both ways...


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## Mercs Own (2/7/08)

Katie said:


> A question to you...
> 
> Is the beer one a wild yeast starter, or are you using the beer for the yeast???
> 
> We have tried both ways...



I basically made up a starter - cup of flour, cup of water and using the last third of a chimay (all the yeast in the bottle). Left that for a couple of days covered until it started to bubble (I think or I could have started feeding it the next day???) and then went through the usual feeding regime - tip half out, add equal amount that you tiped out made up of flour and water day in day out until it looked good and healthy and smelled fresh beery and yeasty. 

With the grapes I just hand crushed them into a large jar and left them skins sticks and stalks. after a few days the liquid began to bubble so I strained out all of the solids and added the liquid to a flour water mix and fed it and grew it up.

They both had lovely character but I always felt I was cheating with the beer as in a way it wasnt really started with a wild yeast but hey it worked.


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## Tim F (3/7/08)

I just made a beautiful starter using freshly picked olives. Used about 8-10 olives off the tree, unwashed obviously. Mixed with 50/50 flour and water, about 1 cup of each and a good pinch of salt. Let that sit for 4 days, stirring every day. Once it was nice and bubbly and tasting tangy, I took out the olives, mixed in just enough flour to make a wet but workable dough, and then let it rise all day while I was at work before shaping it into a focaccia. I have never made anything that rose so well as this, check it out. It went into the oven 1 inch thick. The dough tastes absolutely sensational, different from my normal sourdough starter.






Oh and I made this pizza with the rest of the dough. :icon_drool2:


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## Doc (4/7/08)

Some fine looking bread there Tim.
I made up my sourdough bread last night and let it rise overnight.
Gave it a working over this morning and it is doing its second rise now.
Will be baking some time later this arvo. 
Two massive loaves of Sourdough bread. One with my Gosebier in it, and the other with my Schwarzbier in it.

Doc


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## Katherine (4/7/08)

> Some fine looking bread there Tim.
> I made up my sourdough bread last night and let it rise overnight.
> Gave it a working over this morning and it is doing its second rise now.
> Will be baking some time later this arvo.
> ...



PHOTOS PLEASE.. if possible! All you need is unsalted butter and bottle of something and your set! 

Our next project is doing a red wine Sour Dough...


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## Doc (4/7/08)

Here are the pics of the Schwarzbier Sourdough bread.
Ended up being a late lunch, but it was worth the wait. Delicious. 






Doc


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## Doc (4/7/08)

And fresh out of the oven is the Gose Sourdough loaf.
It won't get hacked at prob until Sunday.




Doc


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## Katherine (4/7/08)

That looks so so good! Well done!


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## johnno (4/7/08)

Doc,
That looks fantastic. Bit of cheese and it is a feast.
I too have been meaning to get a sourdough starter going. I have been practising making bread in my cob oven and it has been going pretty good.
Bread is awesome!

errrr..so is lamb, which is why I usually throw a piece in after the bread is done  


cheers
johnno


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## Mercs Own (6/7/08)

johnno said:


> Doc,
> That looks fantastic. Bit of cheese and it is a feast.
> I too have been meaning to get a sourdough starter going. I have been practising making bread in my cob oven and it has been going pretty good.
> Bread is awesome!
> ...



Great job Doc! And Johnno that all looks fantastic! Cob oven? Is that just a term for wood fired or is it specific to a different design and build etc??


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## johnno (6/7/08)

Mercs Own said:


> Great job Doc! And Johnno that all looks fantastic! Cob oven? Is that just a term for wood fired or is it specific to a different design and build etc??




Hi Merc,
cob ovens are named after the material they are made from. They are wood fired. Cob is usually a mixture of clay,sand, earth straw, and water. These have been used in various forms through the ages for cooking in. Easier for a non handy person like me to make. As opposed to the flash ones made from brick.

I also started a sourdough starter on Friday night. Just the flour and water mix for now. Will see how it goes over the next week.

cheers

johnno


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## Katherine (7/7/08)

K & L's Stout Sourdough

The best one (we have done) yet....


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## Doc (8/7/08)

They look great Katie.
What is your recipe ? How much beer ?

Doc


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## Katherine (8/7/08)

In this batch we started with a traditional wild yeast starter (so no beer added at this stage, though we have done previously)
We now have a constant wild yeast starter going "named Frank, and what a personality he has, comes out to play for at least four hours a day then back into the cool room"

The last flour and water addition was replaced with home made stout.

It was left to rest for at least 12 hours before shaping then proved for 12 hours over night before baking.

End result FANTASTIC best ones yet!


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## Doc (14/7/08)

Katie said:


> In this batch we started with a traditional wild yeast starter (so no beer added at this stage, though we have done previously)
> We now have a constant wild yeast starter going "named Frank, and what a personality he has, comes out to play for at least four hours a day then back into the cool room"
> 
> The last flour and water addition was replaced with home made stout.
> ...



Sounds awesome.
Just pulled my starter out of the fridge (hasn't been feed for about 4 days), and it still looks nice and healthy.
Just added a cup of Imperial Vanilla Bourbon Porter and a cup of flour and put it on the heat plate (lowest setting). Should be making up the dough tonight. Looks awesome colour already 
Thanks for the idea.

Doc

PS: Still working on a name for mine.


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## glennheinzel (14/7/08)

Doc said:


> Sounds awesome.
> Just pulled my starter out of the fridge (hasn't been feed for about 4 days), and it still looks nice and healthy.
> Just added a cup of Imperial Vanilla Bourbon Porter and a cup of flour and put it on the heat plate (lowest setting). Should be making up the dough tonight. Looks awesome colour already
> Thanks for the idea.
> ...



C'mon Doc, when are you going to use the bugs from that jug in your brew shed?


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## Doc (14/7/08)

Rukh said:


> C'mon Doc, when are you going to use the bugs from that jug in your brew shed?



Maybe when I come up with a name for it.
I've named the one I've created for Sourdough "Gonzo".
A reference to Hunter S Thompson because I'm going to through all manners of alcohol at it, and I'm sure it won't die :beerbang:

Doc


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## Katherine (14/7/08)

Doc.... Are you doing a starter from scratch each time? Its a lot of work but we have to make bread everyday so we just through what we take from FRANK and put it into the daily batch so there is no wastage and were in the kitchen every day so feeding FRANK constantly isnt a problem.

We did a redwine sour dough yesterday, beautiful though we didnt add enough red wine so it's a pinky colour!! Try putting some more in next time.

Oh yes, if your starter ever show's signs of a pinkish colour you know its not quite right!


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## Doc (15/7/08)

I'm keeping alive the starter I did for the first batch.
But using your idea, I'm feeding it beer and flour instead of water and flour to keep it alive.
The two loaves from the last feed (Imperial Vanilla Bourbon Porter) are starting their second rise now. Will bake them late this arvo.
The next feeding will likely be my Pliny clone (insanely hoppy beer 200+ IBU's and 7.5%).

Beers,
Doc


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## Katherine (15/7/08)

Have not thought of doing that, a hoppy bread... mmmm next project! Let me know what that tastes like.


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## Doc (15/7/08)

Here is a piccy of the Imperial Vanilla Bourbon Porter sourdough.
Unfortunately it looks like it added colour, rather than a lot of flavour. The sliced loaf also had some cinnamon in it, but it seems I didn't add enough as it isn't really detectable.
Great texture and density to the bread though. Just need to get it a bit more sour.

Doc


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## Doc (18/7/08)

Katie said:


> Have not thought of doing that, a hoppy bread... mmmm next project! Let me know what that tastes like.



Made the bread tonight (Bake tomorrow arvo).
I must say that this was the most pliable easy working dough I've done for sourdough. Either it is the super hoppy beer, or the starter is starting to get into its own.

Doc


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## Doc (20/7/08)

I didn't get a chance to bake yesterday arvo, so left it until this morning (a 24hr second rise).
I think this is my best beer loaf ever. Bitterness from the beer has come through, and there is a nice sourness to it.

Beautiful.

Doc


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## Katherine (29/7/08)

Doc...

The hoppy bread looks good... I will try that one.

Yesterday we baked a Red Wine and Wholemeal Sourdough. Result they looked great but a little doughy less wholemeal next time. Also trying to source Cabernet Flour which give a real rich red look instead of red wine in the mix. 

We have two starters now, we still have Frank who gets feed every day, then Francis who will only be feed twice a week... so she'll be quite sour. Next week project will be just a nice white sourdough.


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## Katherine (11/8/08)

Our Sour Dough made out of LCPA.... Best one yet...


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## Katherine (9/9/08)

Lean Choc Malt Stout Sourdough


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## notung (24/3/09)

I have a question for those who brew *and*bake sourdough.

In mid April I was wondering about attending a sourdough baking workshop at Redbeard bakery in Trentham, VIC. The 6 hour workshop covers starters, flours, mixing, proving and shaping the dough etc. The thing is - I have heard from a friend that they spruke a 'yeast free kitchen' approach and claim that yeasties getting into your leven lead to offness & bad odours.

As a brewer, I am not really able (or willing) to ban yeasts from the kitchen. What do others think of this idea? Is there anything to it? If I do attend this workshop, is there anything I should bear in mind while they are talking about this? I want your opinions!

Cheers


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## LLoyd (25/3/09)

Good to see you fermenting my beautiful girl's chilli and kaffir lime leaf ale. As a brewer you know how much work is involved in preventing a wild yeast or lactic acid INFECTION... Combine some flour containing massive amounts of wild yeast spores and dormant lactic acid producing bacteria and water.... and hey presto! You have a sour dough culture!! I assume the yeast FREE kitchen refers to commercial BAKERS yeast.... HOWEVER there is no such thing as a YEAST free ANYTHING!! Commercial bakers yeast is an easy way to start the fermentation process as is any yeast containing product (live cultured BEER), however, most commercial yeast won't survive the PH found in a sour dough culture.

BUT... What really counts is how you make your white bread CANVAS ,do you know how to develop your gluten properly? If not, you're pushing shit up hill!!!

You can't help creating a wild yeast infection using ingredients that a choc full of wild yeast (such as flour) the only thing that will stop you getting a sour dough culture going is the total mass of your culture.... Make sure you start with at least a cup of flour as a critical mass is somehow important in getting a culture started and active ... 

I am really DRUNK so if none of this makes sense blame my editor who is also really DRUNK however she is also really DRUNK.... 

She is also my typist.... 

If you have any questions do NOT ask my drunken editor (Katie)...

However my drunken editor has saved ME from re writing this post .....


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## LLoyd (25/3/09)

Lets talk sour dough!!


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## Katherine (30/3/09)

LloydieP's Rye Sourdough....

The left one is a Rye Sourdough and the right is Rye, Date, Caraway seeds and Coffee... 

My workmates are loving it...


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## Katherine (30/3/09)

The Rye, date, caraway and coffee loaf did not last long at all... It was lovely I had a slice. It would be nice with cheese also. It was very dense but GOOD... I thought this post deserved a bump.


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## ollave (3/4/09)

notung said:


> I have a question for those who brew *and*bake sourdough.
> 
> In mid April I was wondering about attending a sourdough baking workshop at Redbeard bakery in Trentham, VIC. The 6 hour workshop covers starters, flours, mixing, proving and shaping the dough etc. The thing is - I have heard from a friend that they spruke a 'yeast free kitchen' approach and claim that yeasties getting into your leven lead to offness & bad odours.
> 
> ...


Clean. Sterilise your work surfaces if you're fussy. There is no such thing as a yeast free kitchen (hello, wild yeastie beasties!) and if sourdough starters were that fragile, nobody would be able to bake anything with bakers yeast without contaminating their sourdough starter, or pour a bottle conditioned beer in the kitchen, and neither of those seem to be a practical problem.

I'd suggest you just keep your sourdough starter covered when you're not feeding it, try not to spill your brewing yeast into it, and relax and have a homebrew.

Cheers!


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## notung (4/4/09)

Thanks ollave, that's the sort of 'relax Max' advice I was hoping for.


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## Katherine (9/4/09)

Some more Sourdough out of Lates Kitchen... and this is our mixer when we do big batches...


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## white.grant (27/4/09)

I haven't baked bread for years, but thanks to this thread, I fired up a starter last week and managed to bake a tasty wholemeal and rye loaf. 




cheers

grant


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## scott_penno (13/5/09)

OK. So I tried making a starter and it didn't quite work - never really rose much so after a week I tipped it. I used a mixture of unbleached wholemeal flour and white flour. A question for those that make yeast starters. Is it the yeast that live among the grain within the wholemeal flour that is supposed to be kicking this off or is it the yeast that floats around in the air?

sap.


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## Airgead (13/5/09)

sappas said:


> OK. So I tried making a starter and it didn't quite work - never really rose much so after a week I tipped it. I used a mixture of unbleached wholemeal flour and white flour. A question for those that make yeast starters. Is it the yeast that live among the grain within the wholemeal flour that is supposed to be kicking this off or is it the yeast that floats around in the air?
> 
> sap.



Both I think. There's wild yeast in the flour along with a bunch of lacto bacteria. These combine witht he wild yeast in the air.mI suspect that its mostly the stuff already present in the flour that is mostly responsible thought.

Cheers
Dave


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## ollave (14/5/09)

sappas said:


> OK. So I tried making a starter and it didn't quite work - never really rose much so after a week I tipped it. I used a mixture of unbleached wholemeal flour and white flour. A question for those that make yeast starters. Is it the yeast that live among the grain within the wholemeal flour that is supposed to be kicking this off or is it the yeast that floats around in the air?


That is a subject of some debate. It seems (to me, anyrate) that the source is the flour, but I've not seen any scientific proof to consider this absolutely certain.

A good guide to creating a sourdough starter is this one:

SourDom's How to make your own starter tutorial

If you follow those instructions I would be very surprised if you were not successful. You do need to expect the starter to smell bad at some point along the way, and to take a couple of weeks to be active enough to use for baking. (There are exceptions -- there are always exceptions -- but if you start with that as your expectation, you won't go far wrong.)

Edit: I wouldn't fuss _too_ much about organic flour or rye flour. My starter was initiated with wholemeal flour, and out of date supermarket wholemeal flour at that. If that worked, most things will. I would only avoid white flour: I've seen enough reports of people having problems creating a starter from white flour that I wouldn't recommend it, and the one time I tried it was taking so long I gave up. When baking white loaves I just use a little (say a teaspoon) of my wholemeal starter, feed it up on white flour for a couple of days, and it works without fuss.


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## pdilley (26/5/09)

Quick reply.

My Finnish Rye Sourdough starter made with milk for lacto bacilli is going great.

Had it in the fridge on the trip to the Gong, then left it for a week. Took it out and had a thick liquid layer on top. Dumped that, and most of the starter and added a tsp of sugar and some fresh flour, a splash of milk and some water and set it on the shelf to be at room temperature once more.

Been feeding it and dumping half as I could think about it off and on.

Its now very Finnish like as in very thick gooey not yet ropey elastic in nature, to gross you out like a wet cold sneeze and trying to clear up the gooey mess 

Thats what I always see in the pictures. The smell is distinctly like cheese and actually quite yummy smelling. The colour is of hulled sesame tahini and is looking quite a lot like the finnish starter pictures I see online and at wikipedia so I'm chuffed. I'm sure it will be quite a while as it develops the deep sour flavours of traditional Finnish sourdough rye breads.

EDIT: Added picture of what starter is to look like from online posts about finnish sourdough rye starters.



EDIT2: The best starters are made from viili (a Finnish soured milk product)

Generally cultures from viili make a very active and very sour cultures and they start making good bread in about month. Skimmed milk + rye flour cultures produce milder flavour but they have taken about half a year to produce good bread.

Picture of viili, Finnish milk slime!  Pretty much what my starter is doing which is why I'm chuffed.




Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans (27/5/09)

time for some research/reassurance before I join the sourdough club. 

assumptions
- starter fired up (I havent yet but will soon)
- has been fed up over a week or so and is in the fridge and is ready for baking use.
- Im wanting to create a kick ass multi-generation starter (ie not make a starter every time i make bread).

Questions
1. here comes feeding time. with most of the starter that you take out, do you make bread with it, or do you usually chuck it out? 
2. come feeding time, do you normally stir in new food and then throw striaght back into fridge or leave out for a while?
3. say you have made the starter with various flours (ie rye, wheat etc - like in Doc's blog), do you keep feeding the starter that mix or doesnt it really matter? I assume you can feed it anything and it just adds to a cumulative lifelong flavour of the starter? or do you tend to feed it with whatever flour your wanting to make bread out of for the next batch?
4. im ready to make a loaf. how much of the starter do you normally use in the flour/water mix? ive read about 1tsp to 100gflour+100ml water mix. sounds right?
5. do you have a favourite or 'house' sourdough recipe you use for the loaf? KT & Llyodie im looking at you 2....
6. the less i feed the ongoing starter, the more sour it becomes yes? how long can I not feed it for until it is in trouble? the situation im thinking of is not making a loaf one week or two but not wanting to waste a couple hundred grams of flour each feeding time. all that wasted flour would start to add up.

thanks in advance.


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## Katherine (27/5/09)

I guess last Friday was not the time to talk about bread. 

House recipe... getting Lloydie to follow a recipe are you kidding (I do) he has the science of bread making down so its all in his head. 

Our little dog ate our internet stick so no connection at home until tommorow. Ill get Lloydie to reply. 





citymorgue2 said:


> time for some research/reassurance before I join the sourdough club.
> 
> assumptions
> - starter fired up (I havent yet but will soon)
> ...


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## brettprevans (27/5/09)

yeah i was going to ask laste friday but figured it wasnt the time (and kept forgetting).

poor doggy. at least he didnt eat any dough whilst it was proofing. thats bad. their guts act like a warm fermentor. they get drunk from the alc produced and the bread swells up in their guts ....>>>> trip to the vet and an expensive bill.


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## Katherine (27/5/09)

:icon_offtopic: yeah no carbs for this little doggy... she is on a total natural diet, no canned meat. All raw meat, vege, fish, fish oil, flax, alfalfa powder and raw egg.


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## LLoyd (28/5/09)

> time for some research/reassurance before I join the sourdough club.
> 
> assumptions
> - starter fired up (I havent yet but will soon)
> ...


 

Yup.... Get Lloydie talking about bread and you're in for a boring night....

Glad you're still alive after your shocking behaviour last week (SWMBO)...

1. Rather than chucking it out, just add the food and build up towards baking day. Contrary to popular belief (chuck HALF of it away) you only need to refresh about ten percent of your starter. This gives MORE of your flour MORE time to ferment, and saves wastage..

2. Either way is good. I usually leave it out for a bit but that's just me spoiling my yeasties..

3. All of the above mate! Different flours contain different yeasts, and contribute different flavours in their own right, both in the ferment and in the final dough. Generally in the ferment, RYE will be more sour, as will flours with a higher mineral content (ash).

4. I usually use 33% (ish) fermented FLOUR in a final mix.. Here comes the essay...

​BAKER'S HYDRATION​ 

Get some digital scales, weighing EVERYTHING is heaps easier than measuring volumes.

Ingredients are measured against TOTAL FLOUR WEIGHT not TOTAL RECIPE WEIGHT.

So.....

A 68% mix would be,

1000g flour

680g water

20g salt (2% usually)



I usually use a 100% starter (equal flour and water), cos it's easier to mix..



Let's say i wanted to bake two loaves, I would need at least 1500g of dough.

My draft recipe would be,

1000g flour (100%)

680g water (68%)

20g salt (2%)

10g sugar (1%)



So my SOURDOUGH recipe would be

660g ferment (330g flour and 330g water)

770 flour (1000g less 330g)

350g water (680 less 330g)

20g salt

10g sugar...



5. Nah each week is different. The recipe above is my base, different flours, add fat, use beer, rest it for an hour or twenty four hours... Mood swings...

6. Pretty much the case, remember it's the aeration that counts. Alcohol production is basically an anaerobic exercise for yeast (google The Pasteur Effect) one switched on fucker for a chemist), and lactos are also generally anaerobic. Check out the Solid Beer thread.. As long as it's not badly infected I reckon you could re-activate a starter weeks after your last feed. I just yesterday got round to emptying the bucket that Frank lived in. Frank was our starter from The Bistro (October last year). Smelt like poo and acetone.. Underneath the brown liquid however was pure white dough, that I would bet, would inoculate a new starter safely... Lactic acid and alcohol are PRESERVATIVES..



That would have been exciting at The Turf Club huh??

Cheers for the tour mate, we'll be in touch for our next visit!!



Lloydie







:icon_chickcheers:


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## LLoyd (28/5/09)

> OK. So I tried making a starter and it didn't quite work - never really rose much so after a week I tipped it. I used a mixture of unbleached wholemeal flour and white flour. A question for those that make yeast starters. Is it the yeast that live among the grain within the wholemeal flour that is supposed to be kicking this off or is it the yeast that floats around in the air?
> 
> sap.



One thing that might help... There seems to be a critical mass thing with starters... The bigger it is the better your chances..


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## brettprevans (29/5/09)

shocking behaviour on my behalf wasnt it!

cheers lloyd. heaps of info which was what i was after. i like to be thorough.

so 1/3 of the starter and 2/3 new. lovely. hmmmm Rye sourdough... will be off to the supermarket tomorow to get some flour since the only 'beer' grain ive got left in the house is pils, choc malt, crystal, carapils and black patent. im not sure that would make a great mix for my first batch.

although thinking about it... add a bit of rye, black patent and crystal and youve got a dark rye! splash of stout to finish it off.......


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## LLoyd (4/6/09)

Blitz a bit of chocolate malt and feed it to your starter a few days before you bake make your final with stout insted of water and you've got a cracker!!


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## King Brown (13/6/09)

Katie said:


> View attachment 26095
> 
> and this is our mixer when we do big batches...


Looks Identical to the one at the Brumby's I used to work at...
Has anybody read the book Wild Sourdough by Yoke Mardewi?
Looks really fancy and glossy but wanted to know if anyone had read it and would they reccomend it?


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## LLoyd (15/6/09)

never did more than six or seven kilos in it. Wouldn't handle more than ten or eleven. Tis only a wee li'l one... Thinks he's gonna be a HOBART when he grows up poor kid..


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/6/09)

LloydieP said:


> Yup.... Get Lloydie talking about bread and you're in for a boring night....
> 
> Glad you're still alive after your shocking behaviour last week (SWMBO)...
> 
> ...


When are you coming over to show me the ropes? Swap beer for knowledge. You know me, I love to make good food to go with the beer.Sour dough sounds right up my ally.I like that it can be used as a pizza base as well.God we have to get together and organise a food and beer dinner party.  Bugger it , lets just open a brew pub on my deck.
GB


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## gibbocore (16/6/09)

do you baking lot ever make turkish pide?


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## Katherine (17/6/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> When are you coming over to show me the ropes? Swap beer for knowledge. You know me, I love to make good food to go with the beer.Sour dough sounds right up my ally.I like that it can be used as a pizza base as well.God we have to get together and organise a food and beer dinner party.  Bugger it , lets just open a brew pub on my deck.
> GB




Yeah his a clever fellow... Im up for both suggestions, but lets start with the dinner party. Lets go vegetarian?


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## gibbocore (17/6/09)

I'm embarking on my virgin sourdough expedition. Wish me luck.

This blog has been fairly bloody helpful.

http://sourdough.com/blog/sourdom


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## LLoyd (20/6/09)

gibbocore said:


> I'm embarking on my virgin sourdough expedition. Wish me luck.
> 
> This blog has been fairly bloody helpful.
> 
> http://sourdough.com/blog/sourdom


Good luck mate!
Need any help let us know.
Lloydie


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## LLoyd (20/6/09)

> When are you coming over to show me the ropes? Swap beer for knowledge. You know me, I love to make good food to go with the beer.Sour dough sounds right up my ally.I like that it can be used as a pizza base as well.God we have to get together and organise a food and beer dinner party.  Bugger it , lets just open a brew pub on my deck.
> GB


It's a date darlin!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (21/6/09)

LloydieP said:


> It's a date darlin!


Wait till I get back from Tassie (17 July) and we will get it together.That will give you time to get a sour dough slushy together.I should have another Best Bitter ready to go as well.Any menu ideas ?Vege of course. I could make my bread topping for the SD. :icon_cheers: 
GB


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## LLoyd (22/6/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Wait till I get back from Tassie (17 July) and we will get it together.That will give you time to get a sour dough slushy together.I should have another Best Bitter ready to go as well.Any menu ideas ?Vege of course. I could make my bread topping for the SD. :icon_cheers:
> GB


Ok Katie will make a Hot and sour eggplant curry. If we can get some sort of tile or brick in your oven we could have a loaf ready to bake, and maybe some sourdough pizza bianca (herb and oil flat bread). I'll organise some ready to go and we can get one going for you to bake over the next couple of days (SD prooves pretty slowly which makes it even better). Can we brew aswell? :icon_vomit:


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## Screwtop (22/6/09)

Made my first successful sourdough a few weeks ago. Now, for a bloke who started working life as a baker making sourdough should come easy right? Ah ahh, nope it goes against all one learnt about conventional baking. Even had some personal coaching from a pro from a commercial sourdough bakery, he wasn't a baker, but had learn't the process working in the bakery so his tips were sort of "you do this and do this like that, you see". No good for me, I wanted to understand the process not just be shown how, that only works so long as there are no variants, I wanted to know why, my training would allow me to take it in if explained in the correct terms. Once I had gleaned info from sites listed previously in this thread the process of gluten development required for sourdough fell into place for me. Made two great loaves which took us 2 weeks to get through. Kept wrapped in a teatowl it was fresh to the last slice. Really pleased with my efforts, will taks my starter out of the fridge tomorrow and get ready for batch# 2, looking forward to it.

Screwy


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/6/09)

LloydieP said:


> Ok Katie will make a Hot and sour eggplant curry. If we can get some sort of tile or brick in your oven we could have a loaf ready to bake, and maybe some sourdough pizza bianca (herb and oil flat bread). I'll organise some ready to go and we can get one going for you to bake over the next couple of days (SD prooves pretty slowly which makes it even better). Can we brew aswell? :icon_vomit:


The oven is 900mm wide fan forced etc.I have some Bali stone tiles , I think its like sandstone, they are about 25mm thick.I dont know how they will handle the heat? Explosion!!!! I might grab a few and give them a go.If you dont hear back from me you know its not good.I can make a" mushroom meat" rogan josh. :icon_drool2izza sounds good too. If you want to bring some beers we can match beer to the food.Did I hear you say Curry and IPA and that you will make the IPA?
GB


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## LLoyd (23/6/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> The oven is 900mm wide fan forced etc.I have some Bali stone tiles , I think its like sandstone, they are about 25mm thick.I dont know how they will handle the heat? Explosion!!!! I might grab a few and give them a go.If you dont hear back from me you know its not good.I can make a" mushroom meat" rogan josh. :icon_drool2izza sounds good too. If you want to bring some beers we can match beer to the food.Did I hear you say Curry and IPA and that you will make the IPA?
> GB


Bugger me, you did... I didn't think I thought it THAT loudly.....


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## Katherine (23/6/09)

Maybe we could make a Indian style flat bread, with nuts and fruit in it.... mmmmm Kashmiri Nan!



Im hungry again.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/6/09)

I am just heating up the tiles now, 150C and no explosions so it all looks good.I going to do a trial Focaccia, Tomatoes . red capsicum and herb topping.Sorry you are at work Katie otherwise you could have some and a beer.Lloydie stop thinking so loud!So its a English IPA you are thinking about? YUMMY.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/6/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I am just heating up the tiles now, 150C and no explosions so it all looks good.I going to do a trial Focaccia, Tomatoes . red capsicum and herb topping.Sorry you are at work Katie otherwise you could have some and a beer.Lloydie stop thinking so loud!So its a English IPA you are thinking about? YUMMY.
> GB


200 C and the oven is one piece !
GB


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## LLoyd (23/6/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> 200 C and the oven is one piece !
> GB




Brilliant! 


> I am just heating up the tiles now, 150C and no explosions so it all looks good.I going to do a trial Focaccia, Tomatoes . red capsicum and herb topping.Sorry you are at work Katie otherwise you could have some and a beer.Lloydie stop thinking so loud!So its a English IPA you are thinking about? YUMMY.
> GB


I'm a wanker wherethis is concerned. A true IPA can be nothing else. It was only the ENGLISH who had to send their beer to India.


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## LLoyd (23/6/09)

Katie said:


> Maybe we could make a Indian style flat bread, with nuts and fruit in it.... mmmmm Kashmiri Nan!
> 
> 
> 
> Im hungry again.



Oh my god darlin I didn't think of that! Hell yes! Sourdough Kashmiri on Nev's super tiles.... Hope those tiles are rated for food at that temp GB.....


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/6/09)

LloydieP said:


> Oh my god darlin I didn't think of that! Hell yes! Sourdough Kashmiri on Nev's super tiles.... Hope those tiles are rated for food at that temp GB.....


Made by the big man himself "GOD". How hot is the centre of the earth?, heat rating, "F..''ing Hell hot".Mate they work a treat ,Im going to sell them on Ebay as "Gods own oven loven tiles".I only have about 300 of them so get in quick!!!! If you are nice I will give you a couple. PP will want to post a thread on these as soon as he finds out they came wrapped in nylon bands in suspect Indonesian cardboard. :lol: 
GB


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## PistolPatch (23/6/09)

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Katherine (23/6/09)

> I'm a wanker wherethis is concerned. A true IPA can be nothing else. It was only the ENGLISH who had to send their beer to India





Yeah but what year was that???? So are you sending all your/our IPA's to India... ? If so can PP and GB row while we drink it?

When can I squeeze my atrocious American Hopburst into our brewing schedule? 

oh back to bread......

mmmmmmm kashmiri nan! oh stuff it lets row to India!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/6/09)

LloydieP said:


> Brilliant!
> 
> I'm a wanker wherethis is concerned. A true IPA can be nothing else. It was only the ENGLISH who had to send their beer to India.


Thats the point Its an 'English IPA' made for India.PP and I will row the boat but you have to navigate in your panties.
Captain gay nickers :lol: 
GB


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## Katherine (23/6/09)

Captain Gay Knickers here. I'm a good navigater and buggered if I"D row the boat. I'll be drinking my ENGLISH f'ck'n IPA twirling me missus' undies..


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## Online Brewing Supplies (23/6/09)

Katie said:


> Captain Gay Knickers here. I'm a good navigater and buggered if I"D row the boat. I'll be drinking my ENGLISH f'ck'n IPA twirling me missus' undies..


That means you would have no panties on!!!! Then you may well be Buggered :lol: By PP of course not by me.  I have some USA warrior hops here if you would like to do a non English IPA. I will post you some ? Im going to have a crack with these but wont have it ready for the Gay Clam bake so its up to you captain.
First mate,
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/6/09)

I think we need to start our own thread for the impending beer /food day ? Keep this one just for SD.
GB


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## rude (21/7/09)

Hi All
Just getting into making sourdough bread and found this thread really helpfull. Have obtained a starter and am refreshing it. As it is a little chilly at the moment I'm using the oven with the light on for warmth. Should I put the lid on my starter jar whilst it's in the oven or leave it uncovered? 

ta


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## Katherine (21/7/09)

rude said:


> Hi All
> Just getting into making sourdough bread and found this thread really helpfull. Have obtained a starter and am refreshing it. As it is a little chilly at the moment I'm using the oven with the light on for warmth. Should I put the lid on my starter jar whilst it's in the oven or leave it uncovered?
> 
> ta




Best to cover it so the starter does not dry out.

Good luck and photos please


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## rude (22/7/09)

Katie said:


> Best to cover it so the starter does not dry out.
> 
> Good luck and photos please




no worries Kattie that was my wife Joanna asking & she will send photos
the yeast is looking good at the moment tooo tied tonight bread tomorrow
cheers


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## rude (22/7/09)

Here ya go yeasties at work but in the oven light temp


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## rude (22/7/09)

thats one dirty oven door


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## Katherine (22/7/09)

LOL I did mean of the bread... But hey nice floor!

just noticed you are in melville.... 

you should drop in PP on Sunday for the big brew day.


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## rude (22/7/09)

here is the bread came out like a brick but better than the first one


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## rude (22/7/09)

yes the big brew day Katie whats the go there, would it be cool to rock up?
should I bring the brew rig?
12 oclock start is late I might brew early then come along?


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## PistolPatch (23/7/09)

It would be rude of you not to come mate 

We'll start at 10am but it'll go all day. If your rig is transportable, feel free to bring it around.

Here is a link to the brew day thread

Hope we get to see you.

:icon_cheers: 
Pat


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