# Brewers With Solar Power



## jimmyjack (27/10/12)

I have a solar array on my roof and am increasingly obsessed about generating electricity for a Net feed in tariff and feeding back to the grid to offset my bill. My system is very small and on average I can send back $90 back to the grid also offsetting the electricity that I use. Does anyone have any effective ideas on how to maintain a keg fridge during the day and still be able to offset the bill. I am thinking about putting a timer on the fridge and switching it off during the sun hours.


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## seemax (27/10/12)

Feedback tariff is down to 8c or something now in Victoria... so much for promoting green energy.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (27/10/12)

I have a 3KW system. The idea really is to use as much power during the day when its going to cost you more money to buy, not put it back to the grid for a piddly 8c.
I run a cool room 24/7 etc ,I have reduced our bill by 50%.
Nev


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## Maheel (27/10/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I have a 3KW system. The idea really is to use as much power during the day when its going to cost you more money to buy, not put it back to the grid for a piddly 8c.
> I run a cool room 24/7 etc ,I have reduced our bill by 50%.
> Nev



some in QLD get 44c feed in 

the reverse is best for them feed in during day and reduce use and buy in and use at night to do stuff

i was thinking if you had a fair mount of solid ice in the freezer would it keep the whole fridge cool ?
kind of like a "reverse heat sink" 
but then it might suck the power at night to re-freeze 

with summer here in QLD it's going to make it harder for you


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## Arghonaut (27/10/12)

I am on stand alone solar, my only advice would be to use a keezer, they are better insulated and hence use much less power. My keezer with room for 6 kegs plus the compressor hump space for storage, set at 5 degrees, uses between .2 and .4 kwh a day.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (27/10/12)

Maheel said:


> some in QLD get 44c feed in
> 
> the reverse is best for them feed in during day and reduce use and buy in and use at night to do stuff
> 
> ...


44 c is impressive  
Our Liberal government waited for people to put systems on their roofs and dropped the tariff from 24 to 6 c. PRICKS :angry: 
Nev


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## booargy (27/10/12)

Maheel said:


> some in QLD get 44c feed in
> 
> the reverse is best for them feed in during day and reduce use and buy in and use at night to do stuff
> 
> ...




I have been looking at cooling options and systems lately this is an interesting setup http://www.ozefridge.com.au/ It is pretty much a fridge unit that passes glycol from a tank through a cold plate in the fridge and back to the tank.


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## seravitae (27/10/12)

Depending how crazy/hippie you are you could even look at somehow rigging up an ammonia/water refrigerator with a HX on the roof. Directly use the sun to generate refrigeration, but probably a bit hard to manage temp control.


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## booargy (27/10/12)

sera said:


> Depending how crazy/hippie you are you could even look at somehow rigging up an ammonia/water refrigerator with a HX on the roof. Directly use the sun to generate refrigeration, but probably a bit hard to manage temp control.



Probably easier to power a genset with a stirling hot air engine.


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## Aces High (27/10/12)

chest freezers converted to keg fridges are incredibly efficient due to the extra insulation. If you want to make that keg fridge efficient try lining the inside where possibly with extra styrene foam. 
The less cool the fridge looses, the less it has to turn on each hour. My chest freezer keggerator turns on about 5 to 10 minutes per hour in summer. I worked out the wattage it uses per day and it was bugger all. I can't remember exactly, but maybe 300 wh/d. Thats about $25 per year


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## Maheel (27/10/12)

i like the look of this (but not the price) 

BlueGEN Ceramic Fuel Cell modular gas fired electricity generator
http://www.harveynormansolar.com.au/BlueGEN.html


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## jimmyjack (30/10/12)

> chest freezers converted to keg fridges are incredibly efficient due to the extra insulation. If you want to make that keg fridge efficient try lining the inside where possibly with extra styrene foam.
> The less cool the fridge looses, the less it has to turn on each hour. My chest freezer keggerator turns on about 5 to 10 minutes per hour in summer. I worked out the wattage it uses per day and it was bugger all. I can't remember exactly, but maybe 300 wh/d. Thats about $25 per year



Thanks guys, I like the above advice as well as the ice block idea mentioned earlier. Perhaps a combo of this and turning my fridge off during the peak part of day I will generate more to go to the grid while having cold beer as well


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## Yob (3/3/15)

sooo, looking fairly seriously at a solar set up myself..

what brands to avoid?

What brand are reccommended

I know the SMA for inverters are the go, it's the panels that are giving me the shits


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## spog (3/3/15)

Yep interested myself in regards to quality/ reliability,prices are out of control getting a good system then not having to pay a power bill again is a win.


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## O-beer-wan-kenobi (4/3/15)

I was advised to buy panels and inverter from reputable companies that are present or have offices in Australia. I was told some of the cheaper overseas ones still have manufacturers warranty but can be a nightmare trying to get them fixed/replaced if there is a problem.
This is a picture if my 5kw year old sma sunny boy on fire after exploding when it fired up at sunrise one morning. Not sure what the problem was but sma sent out a new one for an installer to check the system and then replace the unit.
Luckily I had my keg co2 close by to extinguish the fire


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## roastinrich (4/3/15)

Kyocera panels are the go, made in Japan. Poly or mono depends how much coin you want part with.


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## Hpal (4/3/15)

I went 5.1kw ABB inverter (italian) and LG panels, very good quality.


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## Yob (4/3/15)

O-beer-wan-kenobi said:


> I was advised to buy panels and inverter from reputable companies that are present or have offices in Australia. I was told some of the cheaper overseas ones still have manufacturers warranty but can be a nightmare trying to get them fixed/replaced if there is a problem.
> This is a picture if my 5kw year old sma sunny boy on fire after exploding when it fired up at sunrise one morning. Not sure what the problem was but sma sent out a new one for an installer to check the system and then replace the unit.
> Luckily I had my keg co2 close by to extinguish the fire
> 
> ...


Gosh.. That's got to be rare surely, sma are just about top rung, noted though cheers.


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## Yob (4/3/15)

Hpal said:


> I went 5.1kw ABB inverter (italian) and LG panels, very good quality.


Yep, I've got one quote with LG panels


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## stux (4/3/15)

I just* bought a package system from Origin.

Was Panasonic panels/inverter... Or one of those hi quality Japanese brands. Can't fault it. The price was right, I didn't want a fly by nighter installing it and was paid for by a government interest free green loan. 3 year ROI and I get 66c/KW 

That was a few years ago now. Free money. 

The only problem is that it limits the deals you can get for your electricity supply.

* simply, not recently


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## seamad (4/3/15)

spog said:


> Yep interested myself in regards to quality/ reliability,prices are out of control getting a good system then not having to pay a power bill again is a win.


Unless rebates are much higher down your way there is no way you are going to not get a power bill. I've got a 5kW system, and what I use and produce are very close yet my power bill is still couple of hundred per 1/4 ( is @ 1/2 what it was ). The problem is in the big differential between what you pay per kW and the lousy amount they pay you per kW. I have thought of going off grid with batteries etc but the costs don't add up. I do like brewing on a very sunny day though as with my all electric rig it's pretty cheap to run when the sun is shining.


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## GrumpyPaul (4/3/15)

Once you get it all sorted - watch your power bill like a hawk.

Sneaky bastards more often than not don't include the feed in credits for mine. I have to chase them up a number of times to get it credited.


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## Snow (4/3/15)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Once you get it all sorted - watch your power bill like a hawk.
> 
> Sneaky bastards more often than not don't include the feed in credits for mine. I have to chase them up a number of times to get it credited.


Who's your power provider, Grumpy?

I've never had a problem with Origin.


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## GalBrew (4/3/15)

I'll be investing in one of the Tesla battery packs once they are available. Even on a 4kw system feed in tariffs aren't worth worrying about at 8c/kWh.


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## wynnum1 (4/3/15)

They will just keep on increasing the network charges to wipe out any feed in credits .


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## seamad (4/3/15)

GalBrew said:


> I'll be investing in one of the Tesla battery packs once they are available. Even on a 4kw system feed in tariffs aren't worth worrying about at 8c/kWh.


If they're priced like the cars...
On my boat ( still not quite finished ) I've got LiFePO4 batteries which are very light and can handle high dis/charge and have a much higher cycle life compared to std lead/acid batteries. It's a 600 ampHr @12 VDC set up, which is 12 individual cells, got them pretty cheap in a bulk buy with a few other guys who were also building their boats. However I'd need more than that to power the house during patches of bad weather and they are still expensive. On top of that yuo'd be up for a couple of expensive pure sine wave inverters and probably a backup diesel genny. All up you are quickly at $12-15K and that's not including the solar panels, so just not viable yet imo.


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## wynnum1 (4/3/15)

With those batteries what happens if they get wet and short out.


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## technobabble66 (4/3/15)

wynnum1 said:


> With those batteries what happens if they get wet and short out.


seamad becomes sad
h34r: :lol:


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## seamad (4/3/15)

wynnum1 said:


> With those batteries what happens if they get wet and short out.


no idea, probably the same as any other battery. Mine are built in under the lounge/settee on the bridgedeck of a 12.5m sailing cat, so hopefully no chance of ever finding out. They are not prone to exploding/catching fire as the lithium batteries ( different tech/chem) as with the recent boeing aircraft ones.


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## technobabble66 (4/3/15)

FWIW, i've read solar panel reviews by supposedly experts in the field (these seemed credible - e.g.: one was CHOICE, i think) where they suggested that at current prices (from 1-2 yrs ago) it's possibly more worthwhile to simply get a battery array to collect energy during off-peak times to supply the house during peak times, rather than invest in a solar panel array.
As well as being interesting, it seemed indicative of the poor support for solar power and the dubious charge schedule the power companies employ.


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## wide eyed and legless (4/3/15)

In Victoria feed in tariffs is now 6.2 cents, anyone thinking of putting in a solar system get a bigun as the battery price comes down think about putting in a bank of batteries for evening use.
As one poster stated your bargaining power comes down with solar users and I have been caught out twice now in negotiating with Lumo, you get excited when they offer a further reduction in electricity charges when asking for a reduction in gas charges, its only when you put the phone down that you realise that you realise you are not paying for the electricity anyway.


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## O-beer-wan-kenobi (4/3/15)

These guys do an energy storage system http://magellanpower.com.au/component/virtuemart/renewable-energy2012-06-06-07-05-521/residential-energy-storage--detail
I asked my rep to give me an indicative cost for one using my current inverter and possibly more panels. They would need to look at your usage and work out how much you use in the day with enough spare capacity to charge the batteries to last the night until they start the recharge cycle again. It is a totally off grid install so like the post above a back up system would be beneficial if you have a problem or maintenance. One thing to consider with this and solar is the life and output deterioration of the panels and batteries. Still waiting on the price though

A guy at work is still on a contract where he sells his at high rate so he turns everything off in the day to export and uses his appliances at night, which is at a cheaper rate.
Im on the measly 8c export rate so I try to use my appliances in the day, by staggering the times when I turn them on and try not to use them after sunset. This is OK for me as my wife is at home in the day looking after the kids. Could be a problem for some if none is at home in the day.
My average consumption for the year was 19 units a day. After solar it was 9 units a day so halved my bill. I think I worked out that I need 6 years or so to break even on the current rate for my system.
If you are looking at the 8c export rate I would say its best to size your system based on your usage to get best ROI. If you had a 10kw system and only use 3kw with the rest exporting, it would take a long while to repay the extra outlay at 8c a unit


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## Fents (4/3/15)

DO NOT USE THIS MOB - http://www.treac.com.au/

They have gone into administration.

I recently forked out >$18K for a 2.5kw on grid system and a 4.5kw off grid battery system.

They went into liqudation/administration 1 week after they installed my system. Consider myself bloody lucky i got it done at all. I could see something wasnt right and put a few rockets up them and it got done.

I cant even be sure i got the panels i orderd. Yea it all got checked off by a solar inspector but who says they didnt flick him $200 just to tick a few box's.

Seems to be working fine and my last bill was 15.39 average daily use (kwh) down from around 26 (kwh) same time last year. (I have a pool with pool pump and solar heating pump running 9 hours a day in summer)

Just really scared they dudded me on the panel's or some dodgy wiring or some shit.

Battery system sure is the way to go tho.


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## wide eyed and legless (4/3/15)

We have discussed adding more panels on another thread regarding solar, I get 66 cents feedback until 2024 and I have asked a couple of companies now about increasing the number of panels (mine will take 2 more panels with my inverter) but they have both said the same thing it is not worth the risk of being caught out, I would lose my 66 cents and maybe a fine to go with it, remember the feed in tariff is government subsidized and whatever contract you sign for the size of the system that is what it stays at.
And in that thread it was also discussed that the power companies want to put a levy on receiving the fed in electricity as a charge for carting it around the state.


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## O-beer-wan-kenobi (4/3/15)

Can you be connected to the grid and also have batteries to feed back in any excess? I thought if you had stored energy you were totally off grid (Not connected to the grid)? Could be a WA thing?


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## Yob (4/3/15)

dont quote me, not at the moment here but I believe thats changing, My understanding is that we will be able to later this year, Im almost considering holding off until I can.


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## droid (4/3/15)

we never had power to the shed, when they came out they said I could have the panels on the shed - I was doing cartwheels - yippee power to the shed!


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## GrumpyPaul (4/3/15)

Snow said:


> Who's your power provider, Grumpy?
> 
> I've never had a problem with Origin.


Origin now.....previously Simply Energy.

Used to have to chase up Simply Energy nearly every bill to get the feed in credits.

Only had an issue with Origin on the change over. First two bills didn't include the feed in - but the fixed, and back dated the credit. been Ok since.


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## GrumpyPaul (4/3/15)

On another note...

We have a fairly small 1.5kw system and I am kicking myself we didn't go huge in the first place.

Have made some enquiries since about upgrading and adding more panels.

We are currently on the old 66c feed in tarrif.

If I upgrade to a bigger system I drop to the current pissy amount of 6c (or whatever it is).

So there is no point upgrading. Most of our power use is in the night time - so a bigger system wouldnt help us much because we don't use much during the day.

As long as I don't change or upgrade I keep my 66c tariff.


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## Yob (4/3/15)

WTF?

That's a fair differenc..


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## superstock (4/3/15)

GrumpyPaul said:


> On another note...
> 
> We have a fairly small 1.5kw system and I am kicking myself we didn't go huge in the first place.
> 
> ...


Couldn't you have two separate systems. The high feed in feeding the grid and the new system reducing your home usage?


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## Tahoose (4/3/15)

We are talking about one but it won't be for a while yet. Saw a 5kw system with true value solar for $5k the other day. Inverter and 20 panels.. 

Just don't have room for 20 panels :/


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## GrumpyPaul (4/3/15)

Yob said:


> WTF?
> 
> That's a fair differenc..


A huge difference...its almost like they want to discourage you form being more energy efficient.

Heres a link to the info about the current rate tariff of 6.2c

http://www.energyandresources.vic.gov.au/energy/environment-and-community/victorian-feed-in-tariff-schemes/current-feed-in-tariff

I'm on the discontinued "Premium Tariff" of 60c - see the link below




superstock said:


> Couldn't you have two separate systems. The high feed in feeding the grid and the new system reducing your home usage?


Not sure - Reading this info about the premium tariff looks like they don't want people to add to their systems.

http://www.energyandresources.vic.gov.au/energy/environment-and-community/victorian-feed-in-tariff-schemes/closed-schemes/premium-feed-in-tariff


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## Florian (4/3/15)

Yep, don't change anything on your system unless you're prepared to loose your FIT.

A few years ago I've put 7.6Kw worth of panels (38 of them, would have loved to add more but ran out of space) onto a 5Kw inverter. Over loading works with certain inverters (like Trannergy)and means that our system is putting out 5.15Kw/h for most of the day, even at hours with less sunlight.

We have got 44 cent guaranteed until 2018 plus another 6 cent voluntarily provided by Origin. Our system has pretty much paid itself off by now or is at least fairly close, which means from now on it's free electricity plus a nice cheque once a year.


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## wynnum1 (5/3/15)

Can panels be replaced output drops off with age of panels.


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## Yob (5/3/15)

Does anyone know if the FIT will vary from company to company or is it set at state level?


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## wynnum1 (5/3/15)

What happens when there is a disaster like storm or fire and replaced under insurance .


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## Florian (5/3/15)

Yob said:


> Does anyone know if the FIT will vary from company to company or is it set at state level?


The FIT itself is set at state level, but individual companies can add on top if they want. in QLD origin pays an extra 6 cent, but obviously not guaranteed until 2028 like the FIT.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/3/15)

Maintenance can be carried out, panels replaced, you can even take them with you if you move without losing your FIT.


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## Florian (5/3/15)

Wynnum1, you'd think insurance replacement would be fine, but check with Energex or the like, they can tell you for certain.

not sure that you get financial value out of replacing older panels, you'd have to do the sums and check the legalities.

all this is obviously only important if you secured a high FIT a few years ago, if you start now at 6 cent you can replace and add as much as you like as you will still be at 6 cent afterwards or maybe a little less.
you don't loose your FIT, you get 'downgraded' to the current rate.

another way to loose your high FIT is transferring the power bill into someone elses name, your partners for example or a prospective buyer of you property. Likewise if you buy a house now, you won't be getting the high FIT the previous owner is advertising.

all this I know for certain for qld, google your state and FIT regulations and you should get all the answers you need.


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## Eagleburger (5/3/15)

Just noticed this morning inverter has crapped itself. Off to call installers.


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## Florian (5/3/15)

have you checked your switch board? might just be the orange switch down.


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## angus_grant (5/3/15)

Florian said:


> The FIT itself is set at state level, but individual companies can add on top if they want. in QLD origin pays an extra 6 cent, but obviously not guaranteed until 2028 like the FIT.


From my research most of the companies that have a bonus FIT also charged more for usage. So give with the left hand and take with the right hand.


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## Yob (5/3/15)

Eagleburger said:


> Just noticed this morning inverter has crapped itself. Off to call installers.


What type of inverter? 

I think I've almost settled on a system 

5kw
SMA sunnyboy 
LG monopoly x 18

They have a low temperature coefficient and are a known brand unlikely to fold in the next few years.

What a head..K sorting through the masses of panels and inverter available.. 

Just a little more research on the LG and push that button


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## wobbly (5/3/15)

If you are serious about installing solar PV panels you need to do your self a favour and check out the cost benefits of including a dual axis solar tracker as part of your installation provided you have the available room

The following web site is just one of those that sell and install these units and based on their claims you can get up to 40% more daily out put or alternatively reduce the number of panels installed for the same output.

I have a 5KW system installed on my roof and if I had adopted a dual axis solar tracker I would have got the same daily out put from just 3KW

Live and learn as they say

http://www.ecoforlife.com.au/solar_trackers.html

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Eagleburger (5/3/15)

Aurora. All switches are go. The relay is cycling. With a google search I am guessing that is the problem. Still under warranty so not mine. Been good getting 80 bucks in the pocket even with the aircons running flat out.


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## stux (5/3/15)

Wonder if a tracker is one way to bump up a system which is on the 66c tariff


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## Yob (5/3/15)

They look like they present some pretty serious point loads to a roof system, my bet is you'd need some pretty serious structure upgrade to support it.


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## Aces High (5/3/15)

wobbly said:


> If you are serious about installing solar PV panels you need to do your self a favour and check out the cost benefits of including a dual axis solar tracker as part of your installation provided you have the available room
> 
> The following web site is just one of those that sell and install these units and based on their claims you can get up to 40% more daily out put or alternatively reduce the number of panels installed for the same output.
> 
> ...


I was the state manager for one of the major global solar manufacturers and in the industry for over 6 years. Solar trackers sound good, but there is way more maintenance and more to go wrong. If you have a solar farm with a guy to service the systems constantly then great, but otherwise you will find that they will probably cost you more in the long run than they make you. 

You have to remember that your panels have a 25 year performance warranty, your dual axis mount would probably have a 5 or at best 10 year warranty (sorry I couldn't open the link to see it properly) after that if it breaks down you have to get an electrician in to replace everything onto a new unit. Panels on roof should be pretty much set and forget if you pick the right brands.

Those claims of the same output for a 3kw system sound pretty inflated, there are way too many other factors in there. They are perfect in lab with original module claims, not real world claims. 

Plus, solar panels are so cheap these days that you would be way further in front by adding extra panels like florian did. Just get a good inverter like an sma that can handle being over loaded with panels


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## AndrewQLD (5/3/15)

Getting our 6 Kw system installed tomorrow, went for the SMA Sunnyboy 5000 inverter and 24 x Jinko panels. Hope Ergon don't kick up a stink when I take the hot water system off Tariff 33.


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## Florian (5/3/15)

why are you taking it off tariff 33?

EDIT: that's right, you're not getting a good FIT anymore, makes total sense then.

Please disregard my question.


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## AndrewQLD (5/3/15)

That's about it Florian, we're only getting 8 cents FIT.


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## Florian (5/3/15)

8 cents, ouch, but better than nothing I guess. Still makes sense going solar especially up where you are Andrew.

When I was in Germany over new years I visited an old school mate of mine, he's taken over his parents farm and and built a few funny looking 'sheds' to house his 1 Megawatt system. I'm not sure what size panels he has but if he had 200w ones like I have he'd have 5000 panels. Just nuts.

Yob, don't pull the trigger too quickly unless you're in a real rush. Get absolute every aspect of your system right from the start.
When I was researching I had 4 of the majors out to quote, ended up going back and forth with one of them and almost pulled the trigger, then went onto forums... We all know how that ends...

Spent 2 hours on the phone on a Sunday afternoon to a local installer and went around to his place the next day. He's taken the approach to believe absolutely nothing that is written in product brochures. As a result he has a 'wall of death' where he has installed about every inverter there is and is literally trying to kill each one of them by overloading it by stupidly large margins and doing other silly things to them. There aren't many that survive the ordeal, but one that did is the Trannergy which he distributes in Australia and actually was quite involved with in the development process. I see he now sells Schneider inverters so I assume they hold up to it as well.

Don't get me wrong, the Sunnyboy is a fantastic inverter, but it costs way too much for what it does compared to others, at least back then. I was 100% sold on it for ages until I eventually changed my mind. Especially if you're trying to over load as much as possible the Sunnyboy is not up for it. But if you're not wanting to over load too much and are happy to pay a little extra for a top of the line German product then all is good. It's definitely a flash unit that offers loads of bells and whistles.

Same goes for panels. Back then he sold panels by ET Solar after he had visited the factory in China a few times. He'd done tests on how long the EVA (the white plastic sheeting under the actual cells) holds up over the years in the sun, he's driven his forklift into panels while in operation to deliberately try to set them on fire and all sorts of other tests. Back then the ET panels where top of the rank and dirt cheap compared to Schott (which again I 100% was convinced I needed), LG and other big names.

All I'm saying is this: Don't believe the marketing hype, everyone is trying to place their product as the best, competition is fierce. Do your own research on the little technical details or find someone you can trust who does it for you and whose trustworthiness is backed by lots of other knowledgable people.

And don't pay more than you need to, after all we're doing this to safe money, unlike a shiny brewery where it may be justified to fork out extra for the bling factor.


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## Yob (5/3/15)

Good words mate, appreciate it.

I actually work with a bloke on a Greenstar type job, deals with this stuff (commercially) every day, has left me to sort it out, but has offered gread advice on how it all works as well, certainly been a learning curve to get to grips with it all.. what really doesnt help is the flooded market with so many new names (that may well be old names for a reason) on the block.

There's more to it than just the Inverter and the panels, space, aspect, tilt frames, frames of the panels, the list goes on and becomes all consuming. Between him and much forum browsing, you get to know the tide (reminds me of somewhere.. not sure where.. or how I started on AG  )

He also gave me a well handy spreadsheet, (find attached for future fun in the sun lovers) he said to keep in mind the distance start to start of the panels should not be less than (usually) 1800? (will confirm that number).. anyay.. it does stuff, youll sort it out.

It's an interesting journey and with a split in the back pocket of between $6.9k and $10k its well worth the research to get to know what is right for you.

Just to be clear, for me, Im a single story, flat roof, facing North East.. and plenty of roof space, I can look at this "grid" setup as a first step, the other half of this will be a battery system.. there is time for that though.. one step at a time.

B) 

View attachment PV calculations Jesse.xlsx


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## AndrewQLD (7/3/15)

First day with the solar power connected, very happy it was cranking out 5 Kw for most of the day.


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## QldKev (7/3/15)

AndrewQLD said:


> First day with the solar power connected, very happy it was cranking out 5 Kw for most of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can I check my understanding of these systems
5.00kw is from the panels.
but post inverter into the grid it is 3182w (ie, approx 240v * 13.0amp) due to the losses within the inverter?
or is it losses from the inverter + current usage in the house.


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## Florian (7/3/15)

Kev, I'm guessing that Andrew took that photo pretty early in the day (9 or 10am?) and that it doesn't show what Andrew expressed in his post.

3182w is what the inverter puts out at that actual moment, consequently that number fluctuates constantly. 16.46 kwh is what he has output so far for the day, that number would have probably been between 30 and 40 kwh at the end of the day.

energy use in the household is not reflected on the inverter, only on the meter. efficiency for this inverter will be somewhere around 98% from memory, so not much loss at all.

you can see from the graph that during the last hour the output was at or pretty close to 5kwh which then would have continued for another few hours if the weather didn't change, that's what Andrew was referring to.

anyone on PV Output?


----------



## AndrewQLD (8/3/15)

Too much technical stuff there for me Kev, that's why I like pretty graghs  Florian is spot on, the output at the end of the day was 38 Kw and the photo was taken early in the day when it first peaked at 5Kw.
As yet Ergon hasn't installed their new meter so the old one was rolling backwards for most of the day, had 2 aircons going as well at one point and still the meter slooowly rolled back.


----------



## wobbly (8/3/15)

Notwithstanding comments by others on the issues (real or imaginary) associated with solar trackers it is worth having a look at this site to see what the benefits (increased output) could be by tracking the sun.

For example if you input say a Melbourne location for a 5kW system the annual Kilowatt output for a fixed roof installation works out at around 5189kWh/year where as if the same system used a two axis tracker the output would be around 8577kWh/year or some 3388kWh/year improvement or a 65% improvement!!!!

Now agreed it depends on your location and the more northerly your location the lower the improvement as the difference between summer and winter is significantly less

http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php

No particular barrow to push Just suggesting to give this technology a serious look and I acknowledge that you need to have the space to ground mount such a system in your yard.

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Dan2 (8/3/15)

wobbly said:


> Notwithstanding comments by others on the issues (real or imaginary) associated with solar trackers it is worth having a look at this site to see what the benefits (increased output) could be by tracking the sun.
> 
> For example if you input say a Melbourne location for a 5kW system the annual Kilowatt output for a fixed roof installation works out at around 5189kWh/year where as if the same system used a two axis tracker the output would be around 8577kWh/year or some 3388kWh/year improvement or a 65% improvement!!!!
> 
> ...


Years ago it may have been a viable option, but last I heard, with the panels getting cheaper all the time you're better off putting the money toward more panels.
We're completely off grid and I've thought about it - so the batteries get an early morning feed (and late arvo too). More beneficial to get a constant charge over a longer period. But for grid feed, you're certainly better off harvesting bulk during the middle of the day with extra panels.


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## wide eyed and legless (9/3/15)

When I bought my system, about 2009 it cost me $21,000 for a 4Kw system and that was besides the $8000 government rebate, the solar hot water was $2,000 plus also without counting in the government rebate. I knew I wouldn't end up out of pocket in the long term but it is really a gamble when you take on a long term investment though with the odds stacked in your favour.
I get my 66 cents FIT until 2024 my credit goes toward the winter gas bill so all in all the energy household bills are out of the equation in the cost of running a house.(someone needs to come up with something to reduce the rates now)

I too did all the research, at the time the BP panels were the best along with a Sunny Boy inverter, now BP is out of the market but is honouring any warranty calls, so you can wonder whether all the research does pay off, as long as you get a decent name brand with good solid warranty behind it that should be enough.
I reckon in the next 10 years the Home Hydrogen fuel cell will be the way to go where hopefully it will be able to top up a hydrogen fuel cell for the car, progress in this field is gathering momentum so with this and battery technology we will soon all be efficiently producing our own power.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-09/japan-promotes-home-fuel-cell-on-path-to-hydrogen-society


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## Yob (3/4/15)

21.81 kwh made today.

average house consumption is about 28 or something so will be interested to see what impact this has on the next quater account.. I wish I had battery storage, no way we are using all of it during the day even with the changes weve made (ie dishwasher happens at day now etc..)

anyway, pretty pleasing stuff

Take that energy companies :super:


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## razz (4/4/15)

Yob, can I ask what type of solar contract you're on? We get the 68 cent tariff for what we produce but pay 32 cents for peak and 18 cents for off peak usage. We do all our washing during off peak as the dish washer and washing machine use a lot of power.


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## Yob (4/4/15)

Who is that with mate? We haven't sorted out our contracts yet


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## razz (4/4/15)

We use Red Energy for gas and power. I'll check the usage tariffs, but last time I looked they were 32 and 18.
Just checked the most recent bill. 28 cents peak and 12.65 cents off peak, plus GST. FIT is 66.2 cents.


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## Yob (4/4/15)

Sweet, we're with Red, I'll shoot you a pm about which plan and other assorted questions. 

I'm assuming you signed this up some time ago? 

Nice one


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## razz (4/4/15)

August 2012, when we moved to our current home.


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## Florian (4/4/15)

razz said:


> We do all our washing during off peak as the dish washer and washing machine use a lot of power.


if you haven't done so already try the quick wash cycle on your dishwasher. 
On the 31 minute cycle ours cleans 97% as good as on the two and a half hour cycle. The other 3% I wipe off with a kitchen towel.

A similar principle applies to the washing machine.


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## razz (4/4/15)

Thanks Florian for the tip. It's no big deal that we wash the way we do. No kids and i'm up at 5:30 six days for bootcamp so the dish washer goes on and finished before 7am. Weekends the washing machine is doing 4-5 loads and it's off peak.


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## WarmerBeer (4/4/15)

Yob said:


> Solar.jpg
> 
> 21.81 kwh made today.
> 
> ...


Ditch that gas burner, go with a dual-element kettle, and suddenly brewing during daylight hours becomes almost free.


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## Yob (4/4/15)

WarmerBeer said:


> Ditch that gas burner, go with a dual-element kettle, and suddenly brewing during daylight hours becomes almost free.


Id actually like to get a 3kw system, stand alone, off grid (battery) for the brewery down the track. Though the shed roof is more suited to afternoon collection than morning but a big arse battery array should sort that out h34r:


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## Dan2 (5/4/15)

Yob said:


> Id actually like to get a 3kw system, stand alone, off grid (battery) for the brewery down the track. Though the shed roof is more suited to afternoon collection than morning but a big arse battery array should sort that out h34r:


My 20L BM sucks the life outta my batteries.
Though I've only got 2.4kW of panels.
If it's a sunny day then not a problem. Overcast - just run genny for a few hrs.
If it's ONLY for brewing, then arvo sun shouldn't be an issue - arvo sun after you've done your brew would be healthy - top the batteries back up so they don't sit flat overnight.


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## Yob (8/5/15)

Been looking into battery tech for a bit now. While the impending Tesla batteries look mighty fine and bling, the 10yr life cycle of the system worries me somewhat. I might as well go a cheap and nasty system with a good charge controller (tech is already there on these) that has a similar life span.

say 10/20 of THESE that also have a 10 year life span. 

The controller is the thing, it takes the residual solar power and tops up the batteries, _and_ charges them overnight in Shoulder/off peak for use during peak when the sun goes down. So if you know that you need an average of 2.5kwh from say 5-10pm, then..

12V battery pack: 
12V x 250Ah = 3000Wh (3kWh) 
3000Wh / 2500W = 1.2hr 

This doesn't take system loss into account so say it has an effective %50 (possibly better with the right controller)... 40mins use per battery at peak.. 

Now my meter is re configured, Im starting to see that Im not using (even on wintery days) all I generate (purple is feed into grid) 





So it seems Im putting about an average of 2.5kwh back to the grid per day. (getting 8c FIT which is insulting)

April last year was about 1000kwh ($213) - April this year was about 600kwh ($139) so it's doing well enough stand alone but I think I can get it down to 1/3 - 1/4 of that cost with a battery array setup. (and the right controller)

h34r:

*ed removed double attachment


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## DJ_L3ThAL (8/5/15)

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall


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## booargy (8/5/15)

The energy generated doesn't have to be stored in batteries. It can be stored as hot or cold water. In a header tank as a closed loop hydro system.


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## mr_wibble (8/5/15)

booargy said:


> The energy generated doesn't have to be stored in batteries. It can be stored as hot or cold water. In a header tank as a closed loop hydro system.


How do you keep the hot water sanitary?

Don't want to be breeeding diseases by having a bunch of water at warm temperatures (e.g. legionella bacteria).
Maybe you could store the heat in brine


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## technobabble66 (8/5/15)

Yob said:


> Been looking into battery tech for a bit now. While the impending Tesla batteries look mighty fine and bling, the 10yr life cycle of the system worries me somewhat. I might as well go a cheap and nasty system with a good charge controller (tech is already there on these) that has a similar life span.
> 
> say 10/20 of THESE that also have a 10 year life span.
> ...


Hey Yob. Did you get a quote on those batteries? And the cost of shipping? I notice the price is listed as $1-100. That a large range when you're getting 20 of em. 

Fwiw, I've heard solar/energy "experts" suggest the biggest saving you can make, or best bang for buck, is to get just the battery array and forgo the solar. Ie: you save something like 80% of the cash just by getting the array to allow you to store off peak energy to use at peak times, rather than trying to generate your own energy from solar. I assume that's more of a recent thing due to the crap rebates now offered. 
And those Tesla batteries look pretty sexy.


----------



## Phoney (8/5/15)

I'm getting a 2.17kw system later this year. Why only 2.17kw? Because our average daily use is 6 - 7 kWh, and we're not home during the day. 

The system I'm looking at has an Enphase microinverter and 7x 310W JA Solar Modules. 

The feature I like about the microinterver is that it connects to your wifi so that I can monitor the energy generation from my work, or iPhone. At some point down the track my plan is to get a split system A/C for the loungeroom, and on hot days I can turn it on during the middle of the day and cool the house down for free, then switch it off when I'm no longer generating power. Or conversely, heat the house on sunny winter days for free.


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## Yob (8/5/15)

The best bang is both, particularly through the sunnier months, the less you use the grid to charge obviously the better.


----------



## Mardoo (8/5/15)

You can also set up a system using solar to crack water and then use the hydrogen for power generation. Certain risks may be involved h34r:

http://hydrogenhouseproject.org/


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## Dan2 (9/5/15)

technobabble66 said:


> Hey Yob. Did you get a quote on those batteries? And the cost of shipping? I notice the price is listed as $1-100. That a large range when you're getting 20 of em.
> 
> Fwiw, I've heard solar/energy "experts" suggest the biggest saving you can make, or best bang for buck, is to get just the battery array and forgo the solar. Ie: you save something like 80% of the cash just by getting the array to allow you to store off peak energy to use at peak times, rather than trying to generate your own energy from solar. I assume that's more of a recent thing due to the crap rebates now offered.
> And those Tesla batteries look pretty sexy.


Even at $100 that's a bargain. We just paid $5k to an Australian supplier for essentially 8 of the same batteries :huh:


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## Yob (9/5/15)

How long ago Dan? What is your controller? Are you seeing good reductions in your bills?

You have solar as well or just the battery array?

We can use up to 30kw a day, average probably 24ish so I'm gunna be going large on this ;-)


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## fraser_john (9/5/15)

This is a friend at works business http://www.magnisun.com.au/ms/

I wish it had of been up and running when I built the house, we could have put two 2kW trackers on the roof, dual axis trackers produce power from sunrise to sunset at full capacity of the panels, providing there are no clouds. They cost a bit more, but, you get far better value, heaps more power.


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## Killer Brew (9/5/15)

I know nothing about solar but am thinking it could be a solution for my situation. I have a lovely big old shed in the backyard that isnt connected to mains. Im quickly outgrowing my inside brewing space and would like to eventually do AG. Estimated cost to run power to the shed is $1500 plus usage charges beyond that.

My question, is there a way to run my shed off grid using solar and batteries or does it need to be linked into mains?


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## Dan2 (9/5/15)

Yob said:


> How long ago Dan? What is your controller? Are you seeing good reductions in your bills?
> 
> You have solar as well or just the battery array?
> 
> We can use up to 30kw a day, average probably 24ish so I'm gunna be going large on this ;-)


About 8-10 months ago. They're 280aH 12V batteries in a 48V array.
I run completely off-grid using an "Outback" MPPT (this is essentially a battery charger but different internals so it charges from the DC panel input, not AC grid/genset input.
24-30kWh is a pretty large consumption rate! Well compared to us anyway - we only used about 7-8 when we were getting bills. We don't have kids, oven/cooktop/hot water is all on gas, no air-con etc.
It does run a kegerator, domestic fridge/freezer, chest freezer, and 2 brew freezers (fermentation chambers) pretty much 24/7/52. Plus toaster, washing machine, coffee machine, TV etc like any other house.
On a sunny day I have no problems running my 20L BM but if it's cloudy I'll run the geny for a while.

If you can get those batteries at $100 or less, you might as well grab as many as you can.
You may? be able to set it up so you charge the batteries and run the house off peak from the grid, then during the day feed ALL solar power into the grid while using the batteries to run the house?
Would require a bit of messing around by a sparky to set it up, but could be worth the hassle.


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## Dan2 (9/5/15)

Killer Brew said:


> ... is there a way to run my shed off grid using solar and batteries or does it need to be linked into mains?


You don't need mains. At the time we set our system up, it cost us about $25k
Since then electronic components and panels have dropped in price considerably and batteries were the biggest price component.
But if the batteries Yob has found comply with Oz standards and are $100 or less - we could set up again for well under half the cost.
Not sure what people are paying each quarter on their bills - besides replacing batteries once, we haven't paid a cent since setting up!


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## neo__04 (9/5/15)

Just thought id add what I can here.

I'm no expert on solar, but my old man has a 5kw system on his garage.
He is constantly in credit with his power company and just writes in for a cheque every now and then when he
wants some extra cash.

Works a treat there. No batteries, just feeding back into the grid.

EDIT:

Maybe its more than a 5kw system.. I'll have to check


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## Whiteferret (9/5/15)

Look out Yob's doing another bulk buy.
Put me down for 2 for my camper.

Price depending.


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## beercus (9/5/15)

I have 1.5kw system on the roof with micro inverters (shade issues), glad I did it but don't see much bill reduction at 6c buy back.

I would like to see these come to oz. put this turbine on the roof and generate during the night. I'm on the top of a hill and think it would do ok. If only we had a govt that would support these ideas better....

http://gizmodo.com/eureka-a-whisper-quiet-wind-turbine-based-on-archimede-1582606998

Beercus


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## Yob (9/5/15)

whiteferret said:


> Look out Yob's doing another bulk buy.
> Put me down for 2 for my camper.
> Price depending.


Damn, they're onto me.. 

I'll send a few emails next week..


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## Phoney (10/5/15)

beercus said:


> I would like to see these come to oz. put this turbine on the roof and generate during the night. I'm on the top of a hill and think it would do ok. If only we had a govt that would support these ideas better....
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/eureka-a-whisper-quiet-wind-turbine-based-on-archimede-1582606998
> 
> Beercus




Would be great if you lived on a headland. 

Be interested to know how long they stay 'whisper quiet' for - until the bearings develop a squeak.


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## Yob (10/6/15)

So now I've been drilling into power usage for a bit and have access to the data, I thought it'd be interesting to see what the cost of brewing might be.. On Saturday, I set up my HLT and MT with HEX to turn on at 4.30am (ish) so it'd be ready for mash out when I woke up.





the total cost from that time zone was $3.88 which isn't as bad as I'd thought it might be.

this has sweet F.A to do with solar power as such, just thought it a good place to put it

B)


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## zarniwoop (20/6/15)

We're completely on electricity here so a solar setup would be perfect. given that I work from home and the missus and kids are home all day too, I even went to the extent of tracking the shade across our roof to see if it was viable. What killed it for me was that I'd need to remove the big gum that's right next to our house or else I'd risk damaging panels with dead fall, that added another $5K to the price which made the payback period too long to justify it.


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## yum beer (20/6/15)

zarniwoop said:


> We're completely on electricity here so a solar setup would be perfect. given that I work from home and the missus and kids are home all day too, I even went to the extent of tracking the shade across our roof to see if it was viable. What killed it for me was that I'd need to remove the big gum that's right next to our house or else I'd risk damaging panels with dead fall, that added another $5K to the price which made the payback period too long to justify it.


You are gonna pay for lectric forever.........payback period, most likely shorter and worth it.

I put 8kw on the roof last spring, cost $11,000, paying back $12,500 over 30 months, currently saving around $800 a quarter.
Current bill plus repayments is $40 a week cheaper then I was paying before, less than 2 years its paid off and I'm saving a motza....even more allowing for price increase.

Brainless equation in my opinion......Solar good, no solar no good.


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## wynnum1 (21/6/15)

zarniwoop said:


> We're completely on electricity here so a solar setup would be perfect. given that I work from home and the missus and kids are home all day too, I even went to the extent of tracking the shade across our roof to see if it was viable. What killed it for me was that I'd need to remove the big gum that's right next to our house or else I'd risk damaging panels with dead fall, that added another $5K to the price which made the payback period too long to justify it.


$5K how big is the tree.


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## Yob (21/6/15)

yum beer said:


> I put 8kw on the roof last spring,


got 3 phase?


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## AndrewQLD (21/6/15)

Just got our first full bill back from Ergon, $195.00. Same time last year we paid $704.00 so I'm very happy.
What I am not happy about is that Ergon have just introduced a service charge of $85.00 a quarter so in reality my actual usage cost was $110.00 for the quarter.


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## Yob (21/6/15)

$1.35 a day with diamond energy, better rates and FIT though


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## yum beer (21/6/15)

Yob said:


> got 3 phase?


yes


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## Yob (21/6/15)

Nice, I wanted to fill my roof with a 15kw system but sadly, no 3 phase.


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## yum beer (21/6/15)

you Victorians have it good.
Diamond energy would have given me 30c feed in Victoria but here in the state of gold thread and uv free sunshine they only pay that on your first 5kw a day, but wanted to charge an extra 2 1/2 grand for the install, that's 8 plus years to balance up, not this little black duck.


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## yum beer (21/6/15)

Yob said:


> Nice, I wanted to fill my roof with a 15kw system but sadly, no 3 phase.


You probably couldn't justify the 15kw anyway Yob.
Energy masters only allowed me 8kw because of the size of my bills, they are really cracking down on people making money off the feed in.
I'm just pissed I didn't put them on when we built the house, among everything else just didn't factor it in.


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## Yob (21/6/15)

If we had 15kw, we'd use most of it, it's why I'm looking at battery storage now.

We use plenty and our bills were huge prior, getting better but I've got a ways to go before I'll be happy


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## yum beer (21/6/15)

Yob said:


> If we had 15kw, we'd use most of it,


Serious.....


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## Yob (21/6/15)

All those lights don't run themselves


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## yum beer (21/6/15)

I was running about $1600 a quarter, basically cut that in half, a bit better in summer.


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## wide eyed and legless (21/6/15)

I did look further into the battery wall, only useful during a power cut to run minimal lighting.


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## Yob (22/6/15)

WEL, did you look at the charging options? I need about a 30kwh system running at a maximum %50 discharge, the point really is that it charges both by the solar AND only on off peak, so essentially not using any peak power at all and only taking grid power to charge the batteries which you use during peak.

In my case, changing the rate from something stupid like. 34kwh to. 14kwh still using essentially the same energy but being charged a fuckload less for it.

The sunnyboy Island (controller) is 6 frikkin K on its own though...


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## wide eyed and legless (22/6/15)

My computer is down at the moment Yob as soon as I get it cleaned I will find the article I was reading , I still think the Hydrogen system could be the go, even though it works off natural gas the use of the gas is extremely efficient.


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## wide eyed and legless (22/6/15)

I think the one I was reading was the 2kw Power wall here is more information about the other systems, as it says in this article it pays to remember that electricity prices will keep going up. 

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/05/the-winners-and-losers-in-teslas-battery-plan-for-the-home/


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## wynnum1 (22/6/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think the one I was reading was the 2kw Power wall here is more information about the other systems, as it says in this article it pays to remember that electricity prices will keep going up.
> 
> http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/05/the-winners-and-losers-in-teslas-battery-plan-for-the-home/


Electricity prices or the connection to the power grid .


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## Yob (22/6/15)

wynnum1 said:


> Electricity prices or the connection to the power grid .


both


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## wide eyed and legless (22/6/15)

Both, electricity companies now realise that it isn't the cash cow it was thought to be.


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## GalBrew (22/6/15)

Yob said:


> If we had 15kw, we'd use most of it, it's why I'm looking at battery storage now.
> 
> We use plenty and our bills were huge prior, getting better but I've got a ways to go before I'll be happy


The reality at the moment is that unless you had ample battery storage the voltage in your street (especially if there is a high solar take up) will probably run too high and your inverter will shut your system off. In our area nearly every 2nd house has a solar array of some type and it took a month to get united to drop their feed in voltage from the substation. When it was finally done the guy said not only that they dropped it as far as they could with the setup as it was, but that this sort of thing is no happening on a regular basis. It's likely that a 15kw array might run into trouble, depending on your area.

This was not an issue that was raised with us at any time during the buying process.


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## wynnum1 (22/6/15)

The whole system is a mess what do the installers make per house no shortage of advertising.


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## zarniwoop (22/6/15)

yum beer said:


> You are gonna pay for lectric forever.........payback period, most likely shorter and worth it.
> 
> I put 8kw on the roof last spring, cost $11,000, paying back $12,500 over 30 months, currently saving around $800 a quarter.
> Current bill plus repayments is $40 a week cheaper then I was paying before, less than 2 years its paid off and I'm saving a motza....even more allowing for price increase.
> ...


I know, the issue is that we also have another couple of gums out the back that would shade the roof for half the day especially during winter. I need to look at it again and work out the drop in output I'm likely to get from that and go through it all again. (From memory mono and poly panels perform quite differently in shade but it's been a while since I did anything with this so I need to re-investigate.)


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## zarniwoop (22/6/15)

wynnum1 said:


> $5K how big is the tree.


Big! Rough guess 30M gum about 3m from the house and 2 m from the neighbours fence. I only got one quick quote so again I need to revisit it.


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## Yob (22/6/15)

GalBrew said:


> The reality at the moment is that unless you had ample battery storage the voltage in your street (especially if there is a high solar take up) will probably run too high and your inverter will shut your system off. In our area nearly every 2nd house has a solar array of some type and it took a month to get united to drop their feed in voltage from the substation. When it was finally done the guy said not only that they dropped it as far as they could with the setup as it was, but that this sort of thing is no happening on a regular basis. It's likely that a 15kw array might run into trouble, depending on your area.
> 
> This was not an issue that was raised with us at any time during the buying process.


With a 20 x 250ah battery array,sweet fa would be put into the grid, the vast majority would be for charging the batteries, a battery array actually helps the grid by evening out the spikes and flattening the demand curve. Usage during off peak isn't an issue if it's a steady charge.


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## GalBrew (22/6/15)

Yob said:


> With a 20 x 250ah battery array,sweet fa would be put into the grid, the vast majority would be for charging the batteries, a battery array actually helps the grid by evening out the spikes and flattening the demand curve. Usage during off peak isn't an issue if it's a steady charge.


But if your inverter detects a VGrid that is too high, it will cut out until it drops and your giant array will be pumping that value up in you immediate area. It's a safety issue.


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## Yob (22/6/15)

Wit a 15kw system, a battery array of that scale and a backup genii, I could tell em all to get fucked and go off grid


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## Phoney (7/7/15)

Well I got my system installed approx. 2 weeks ago.

3.1 kW Q-cell panels and Fronius Galvo inverter. 

So far I've switched the keg fridge to run from 9am to 3pm, we now do the dish and clothes washing during the day on their respective built in timers and I will be doing my brewing during the day now instead of in the evenings after work. 

Next purchase will be a reverse cycle split system AC to pre-heat and pre-cool the house during the day, while all that power is pumping in.

Actually looking forward to seeing my next couple of bills now!


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## wynnum1 (8/7/15)

Is there a way to disconnect the system from the grid when the grid goes down your system is turned off so no power .


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## Yob (8/7/15)

Phoney said:


> Well I got my system installed approx. 2 weeks ago.
> 
> 3.1 kW Q-cell panels and Fronius Galvo inverter.
> 
> ...


shit man, how far off the coast are you? 



wynnum1 said:


> Is there a way to disconnect the system from the grid when the grid goes down your system is turned off so no power .


Batteries...


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## wynnum1 (8/7/15)

Why batteries after a couple of day they will be flat and all the food in the freezer will be defrosted that's what happens now and then claimed on insurance .


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## Yob (8/7/15)

batteries and/or generator then.. either way you still need a controller in addition to the inverter...


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## wynnum1 (8/7/15)

What do you agree to when getting a government subsidy system.


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## Yob (14/9/15)

So bring on the Sun.. we saw a 1/3 reduction in our largest quater power bills over the winter quater and our usage, with the sun coming out again, is dropping well below our average (which is quite high)

despite the appalling FIT return, this system will well and truly pay for itself in 5-10 years at current charges/savings.

I read an article of interest this week in a proposed change to the bill, what is currently happening is that if you have Solar, you pay more for service charge, peak, shoulder and off peak (we are on a time of use tariff) than a house without Solar. The amendment will mean that the same plans will be available to Solar houses in that we should not (well no shit) be disadvantaged by having solar and the plans should be open to all.

Shit yeah!! This will mean an even greater saving even if the FIT is shit house.




Note the yellow is even weekend usage (as through the meter)

and this is our generation




and its not even hot yet :beerbang:


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## Fents (15/9/15)

love those curves!


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## Fents (15/9/15)

not even 10.30am and batteries are already at 47% charged.


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## seamad (15/9/15)

Had my second DC isolator switch fail last week. When the sparky came to look at it I asked him about them catching fire ( which I'd read about on the interwbs, but that's not always factual ). He said it wouldn't catch fire, after wrestling trying to get the cover off, he finally got it off and the ******* thing burst into flames. The wiring looks pretty well rooted and needs to be replaced as well, hopefully be sorted out soon, want to get the pool ready for the school holidays next week and would prefer to run the filter all day long with the solar input.


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## Tex N Oz (15/9/15)

Within the next 10 years we'll see these ( www.bloomenergy.com ) come to the household market and married to solar panels with hydrogen gas production being the medium.

The era of the central power station is coming to an end. I've been following this for a couple of years now. We're already seeing some very large entities completely self-powered with Google being just one of many now.


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## angus_grant (15/9/15)

A quick question: for those of you with the nice pretty graphs, was that bundled with your solar power system, an add-on module, or provided by your power company?


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## Yob (15/9/15)

Both. I get the meter usage from the grid supplier and my generation graph from my solar system


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## Fents (16/9/15)

just make sure you get an inverter that has wi fi, solar company provides the software, should be all included.


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## angus_grant (16/9/15)

The house we bought already has a solar system installed so sounds like the horse has already bolted.

I'll grab the system details tonight and do some searching.


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## Florian (16/9/15)

My installer developed a little arduino wifi dongle for his inverters that connects straight to pvoutput.org.


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## Yob (8/11/15)

Fents said:


> just make sure you get an inverter that has wi fi, solar company provides the software, should be all included.


ours is bluetooth connectivity, just as good really..

This is what our Yearly production graph is looking like


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## Yob (11/11/15)

interesting article

http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/off-grid-town-em5173/?utm_source=NewsletterMailingList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EM151111C


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## wide eyed and legless (29/1/16)

The first Tesla Power wall is sold in Australia.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/writings-on-the-wall-for-mainsonly-power-with-tesla-powerwall/news-story/f00acc5b8fab87331c07a9d231d8e378


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## Yob (29/1/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The first Tesla Power wall is sold in Australia.
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/writings-on-the-wall-for-mainsonly-power-with-tesla-powerwall/news-story/f00acc5b8fab87331c07a9d231d8e378


can you copy paste it? link wants me to subscribe.

FWIW, I think the powerwall is a fair bit of hype over substance, I'd need 2 or 3 of those to make me even close to no grid, and the problem you face at that point is that you cant charge them sufficiently, Im looing at the SMA controllers and a battery array so that it'll take whatever sun I can get to it and then charge the remainder / top up on off peak, again, a limiting factor is the charge time v's available time... I was looking at about 36kw/h battery array but turns out I'd need 10 hours to charge it. (at %60 depth of discharge)

It's an extremely complicated area..


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## wide eyed and legless (29/1/16)

Will not allow me to paste it Yob, buy The Australian, it is an exclusive feature for them.


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## Phoney (29/1/16)

Yob said:


> can you copy paste it? link wants me to subscribe.


Try this link: https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiw5_39xc3KAhUEq6YKHZ6ZDbcQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fbusiness%2Ftechnology%2Fwritings-on-the-wall-for-mainsonly-power-with-tesla-powerwall%2Fnews-story%2Ff00acc5b8fab87331c07a9d231d8e378&usg=AFQjCNHjEQEBdjLUDG16MjPmwjr0wWwXKw&sig2=5zXwi8ees-2zcDiJKBjpBQ


*Entrepreneur Elon Musk’s dream of households storing energy is being realised with what is claimed to be the first installation of a Tesla Powerwall battery in an Australian home.*

And hundreds more installations are about to follow, says Natural Solar, the company that installed it.
Nick Pfitzner, a programmer in Kellyville Ridge, in Sydney’s northwest, and his family are understood to be the first domestic Powerwall recipients.
Mr Pfitzner said he had considered other batteries but they were not as weatherproof or were too big compared with the lithium-ion Powerwall.
“It sticks on the wall, it doesn’t take up floor space, and it’s convenient to move around,” he said.
The Powerwall is not a complete off-grid system but aims to reduce mains dependence, charging from solar panels by day and from off-peak mains power at night.
Earlier stories:
Tesla presses the button on Australian Powerwall battery sales
What a Tesla Powerwall system will cost you
Mr Pfitzner said the household’s air conditioner, washing machine and pool pump would run mainly during the day, powered by his five-kilowatt solar-panel system. Battery power would be used morning and night.
“They’ll be a little bit of adjustment too,” he said.
“We won’t be boiling a litre and a half of water for a cup of tea, but if you make small modifications you can maximise the benefit. I don’t anticipate it will wipe out grid costs overnight — I will be learning over time how best to use it.”
Mr Pfitzner said he was also switching to a power provider that offered a “feed-in” tariff for excess power at about 10c per kW hour, and engaging a company called Reposit that trades power out of storage systems.
“It will analyse your usage patterns and pull power out of your battery and sell it to the grid,” he said. “It uses a market set rate.”
Tesla is not alone in offering home power-storage batteries; older-style lead acid batteries have been available for years. Tesla also faces competition from companies such as Mercedes and Daimler.
Natural Solar managing director Chris Williams said the company was proud to be part of the first installations in Australia. They were taking place after the initial Tesla Powerwall shipment arrived in Australia this week.
Mr Williams said demand was unprecedented. “We are receiving literally thousands of inquiries each week,” he said, noting 1.5 million households were using solar energy and hundreds had signed up for the new system since its availability was announced­ last month.
Consumers could opt for a complete solution of solar panels, an inverter and battery; have the battery retrofitted to an existing solar panel system; or install the battery without solar panels, with the battery simply storing off-peak power for daytime use. The Powerwall came with a 10-year warranty.
Mr Williams said Natural Solar had scheduled installations in major states and territories starting from next week.
Reaction from energy companies has been mixed. Last year former Australian Energy Market Operator chairman Tom Parry said the disruption pointed to consumers paying more for grid connections, no matter how much mains power they used.
Others are on board. US energy­ company Green Mountain Power said it would sell and lease Powerwalls to customers wishing to feed power back to the grid. And last year Australia’s AGL announced two new batteries with storage capacities of 11.6kW/h and 19.4kW/h for solar panel systems.
AGL’s executive general manager new energy, Marc England said the company was the first major energy retailer to launch a battery in the Australian market.


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## Feldon (29/1/16)

FYI - the story is freely available on the news.com site (same owner, but no paywall).

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/design/first-residential-tesla-powerwall-installed-in-sydney-suburb/news-story/01f781cf4e4350950e6d90464a095bc6


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## evoo4u (29/1/16)

We've had our PV system up and running for a couple of years now - 3 x 1200W SMA inverters and 3 banks of 6 panels (we're 3 phase). Distance from the supply transformer on our neighbour's property is around 300m, so voltage drop was a huge factor in the system design, and why Ergon limited us to 3.6kW total.

The installer (my brother in southern NSW) did a LOT of research into PV system design and recommended paying a bit more for the inclusion of the Tigo optimisation & monitoring service.

The optimisation allows each panel to output it's maximum, even though it's neighbour might be less than 100% output through shading, bird crap, whatever. As I understand it, without such a system, one dodgy panel's output pulls all the panels in the array down to it's level.

Just something to consider to improve efficiency. And the monitoring's great as well, so you can see if any panels are down in output, instead of just wondering why your bill's not what you expected every quarter.


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## wide eyed and legless (20/8/16)

Maheel said:


> i like the look of this (but not the price)
> 
> �BlueGEN� Ceramic Fuel Cell modular gas fired electricity generator
> http://www.harveynormansolar.com.au/BlueGEN.html


I went to Japan last year and took a look at the hydrogen units, (only being made for domestic markets) also looked at the Blue Gen about $10,000 dearer than the Japanese, were being manufactured in Germany but checked again recently and they have gone tits up.
I wish I knew which one was featured in one of the current affairs show, a nine kilo bottle of LPG could power a house for 5 weeks.


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