# Considering grainfather purchase?



## Ghizo (22/11/15)

So far I have been a kits and bits brewer, and produce what I consider a pretty nice beer (my father will have often come down for a beer rather than having a commercial beer).
A friend got into all grain and produces excellent beer, he made his own grainfather like system. I do not have much time so the hassle of building my own system is not something I want to do.
I have been looking at the grainfather as an option, looks like it simplifies temp control etc into one unit pretty well.

I am reading through the dedicated grainfather post, but would like to get some opinions from people who actually own one or have used one?


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## McMelloW (22/11/15)

I you have the money. Do not consider, just buy it and start brewing. It is worth every penny.


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## JDW81 (22/11/15)

The Grainfather and Braumeister have both got very good reviews and will make good beer, but you don't need to spent thousands on equipment to make excellent beer.

You can make great beer with a 40L urn and a large bag (AKA BIAB). With the $ you save going simple you'll have some money left over for a sweet keg system. I.e a crown urn and brew bag will cost you about $250 and a BIAB bag about $20. A grainfather will set you back $1000 minimum. With the left over $700 you can by a kegerator with a triple font and forget about ever bottling again.

JD


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## Drick (22/11/15)

You could try a Robobrew. 
Only $450

http://kegking.com.au/35l-all-in-one-single-vessel-brewery.html


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## Kingmaa (22/11/15)

I had a play with one on demonstration, haven't lived with one though.

My rig is a recirculating electric biab keggle with 2 x 2000w elements. Cost with chiller, stc, pump etc would have been less than half of a grainfather but there's a fair bit of incidental cost along the way as you trial and error build something.

I'd probably just buy one if I was looking for a new rig. Or check out the keg king one. The grainfather just works.. 2400w of power for a full batch is a bit tedious would be my only reservation


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## Killer Brew (22/11/15)

If, like me, you are pushed for space, could justify the spend and don't have the time or technical know how to build your own then I think it is hard to go past. Really happy with mine after 3 brews and always looking forward to using again.

Wife is happier too as im not tying up the kitchen for hours like i used to.


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## Ghizo (22/11/15)

JDW81 said:


> The Grainfather and Braumeister have both got very good reviews and will make good beer, but you don't need to spent thousands on equipment to make excellent beer.
> 
> You can make great beer with a 40L urn and a large bag (AKA BIAB). With the $ you save going simple you'll have some money left over for a sweet keg system. I.e a crown urn and brew bag will cost you about $250 and a BIAB bag about $20. A grainfather will set you back $1000 minimum. With the left over $700 you can by a kegerator with a triple font and forget about ever bottling again.
> 
> JD


Already have 3 keg keezer setup, so little to no bottling for me already.

I know I could build something cheaper, however the time to find all the right bits + the trial and error to get it right. While I usually like to build myself in this case it looks so neat.
However I do already have a 30L boiler for my still ( though I am wanting to sell it as spirits are not interesting me).


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## Coodgee (22/11/15)

yeah I have a grain father and I love it. if it's in your price range then I would definitely recommend it. really good value for money in my opinion. I've done about 15 brews in mine and it's great. The best thing is being able to control the mash temp so accurately. opens up a big world of step mashes etc.


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## Ghizo (22/11/15)

Just had a look at the robobrew, looks like a basic version of the grainfather, does anyone own one?


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## Drick (22/11/15)

Ghizo said:


> Just had a look at the robobrew, looks like a basic version of the grainfather, does anyone own one?


 there's a discussion going on here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/88340-Keg-King-ROBOBREW-35L-SINGLE-VESSEL-BREWERY
Keg King ROBOBREW 35L SINGLE VESSEL BREWERY


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## Bridges (22/11/15)

I started all grain with a big pot on a nasa burner. Made great beer. Then converted to all electric matho's controller recirc system. Burnt the arse out of one bath due to a shit element. (to high watt density) even though I enjoyed the build I sort of figured it'd take me a few more dollars and a few more trial brews to get my own system right and decided it wasn't worth it. Was about to buy a grain father and got onto a 2nd hand braumeister at the right price. Best decision I ever made I now have a system that just works. I haven't heard to much bad about the grainfather but I reckon any turn key system with a good track record and good support is well worth going for. There is a few of them floating around now maybe someone local to you will let you sit in on a brew day.
my 2c


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## VP Brewing (22/11/15)

I have a mate that who had never brewed before and wanted to learn. He wanted to get straight into all grain with my help and I told him about the grain father so he got one about a month ago. 
I've been helping him with his brews and I'd have to say it is a very good setup. Only 3 brews in but if you have the money and are looking for something that is easy to use then you can't go wrong. 
If I hadn't spent the last 12months building a double batch recirculated 1V I would get one. 
Highly recommend it if you have the coin.


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## Ghizo (23/11/15)

I gave got the nod from the minister of war and finance ( let's be honest we are all scared of them). So a all in one brew system will be mine, just need to finish 1 project going in the shed 1967 Bridgestone 175dt. So I have a bit of thinking to do now between a robobrew and grainfather.
Grainfather has runs on the board, I like the pump, hard to tell but looks of a higher quality compared to the robo brew.
Robobrew cheaper?

Probably stupid question but I want to do 21-22 litre brews, I assume both the f these systems do that no problem


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## Coodgee (23/11/15)

Grain father can handle up to 30 litres. If you're anywhere near brisbane id be happy to give you a demo.


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## Bribie G (23/11/15)

If you are into 'set and forget' brewing then the GF sounds like a good system, as with the Braumeister.

re a previous comment above, step mashing is dead easy with a BIAB in urn system and as stated it's a quarter of the price.

Remember, the GF, the BM and the urn don't make beer. They produce wort which is just one, important of course, stage in the journey of barley to brain.


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## Reedy (23/11/15)

I'm also looking at getting a Grainfather so I can move up to AG brewing. 
The only issue for me at this stage is some of comments/reviews I have read say that it can't handle higher ABV beers such as RIS or IIPA's (both of which I love & really want to try my hand at) due to the size of the grain bill required for a 20l recipe vs the capacity of the unit (up to 9kg I believe).
Would love to hear from anyone who uses a Grainfather who has done a RIS or similar ABV beer & how it stacks up.


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## DU99 (23/11/15)

http://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-blog/grainfather-review


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## MastersBrewery (23/11/15)

Reedy said:


> I'm also looking at getting a Grainfather so I can move up to AG brewing.
> The only issue for me at this stage is some of comments/reviews I have read say that it can't handle higher ABV beers such as RIS or IIPA's (both of which I love & really want to try my hand at) due to the size of the grain bill required for a 20l recipe vs the capacity of the unit (up to 9kg I believe).
> Would love to hear from anyone who uses a Grainfather who has done a RIS or similar ABV beer & how it stacks up.


From what I remember of reviews this system goes bloody close to giving you a RIS at 18L, that's 5 gal(one keg). Now if you can show me a system for around the same cost that comes with in coohee, I'll go back to Kn'K.
Don't own one, possibly will some time soon.

MB


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## Benn (23/11/15)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr2Qlh5YKwo
Worth watching all 3 vids if considering a Grainfather, a Braumeister or any single vessel setup. I've watched them twice


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## Killer Brew (23/11/15)

Reedy said:


> I'm also looking at getting a Grainfather so I can move up to AG brewing.
> The only issue for me at this stage is some of comments/reviews I have read say that it can't handle higher ABV beers such as RIS or IIPA's (both of which I love & really want to try my hand at) due to the size of the grain bill required for a 20l recipe vs the capacity of the unit (up to 9kg I believe).
> Would love to hear from anyone who uses a Grainfather who has done a RIS or similar ABV beer & how it stacks up.


I believe i read it can take up to 9kg although im yet to do it. That would get fairly close wouldn't it? Could always cheat and throw in some DME at start of boil.


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## wobbly (23/11/15)

Bribie G said:


> Remember, the GF, the BM and the urn don't make beer. They produce wort which is just one, important of course, stage in the journey of barley to brain.


How true

And I wont mention that there are "other" systems that/can will control the all important fermentation, clarification, carbonation, chilling and serving all in the same vessel in an oxygen free environment else I run the risk of well being told to take my head out of somewhere!!

Wobbly


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## Coodgee (23/11/15)

Killer Brew said:


> I believe i read it can take up to 9kg although im yet to do it. That would get fairly close wouldn't it? Could always cheat and throw in some DME at start of boil.


You could always do two mashes and boil them down to one batch of ris.


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## Ghizo (24/11/15)

Coodgee said:


> Grain father can handle up to 30 litres. If you're anywhere near brisbane id be happy to give you a demo.


Thanks for the offer, but I am on the south coast of NSW, would love to see one in action.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/11/15)

I have seen the BM in action. Nice bit of kit and has great repeat ability. GF is pretty much the same sort of thing. Turn key with set and forget. If you can afford one then they are great bits of gear.

Personally I wouldn't own either of them as I could make one for far less and I do like to make my own gear ( and go thru endless hrs of fixing, fine tuning and swearing lots ) and like that feeling of accomplishment of making my own beer from gear scratch built form whatever I could get my hands on. 

Thats not to say they are not worth it or you shouldnt get one. If your new to AG they are a great investment if you dont have the ability ( or just couldnt be bothered ) to make your own AG setup


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## Hippy (24/11/15)

Reedy said:


> I'm also looking at getting a Grainfather so I can move up to AG brewing.
> The only issue for me at this stage is some of comments/reviews I have read say that it can't handle higher ABV beers such as RIS or IIPA's (both of which I love & really want to try my hand at) due to the size of the grain bill required for a 20l recipe vs the capacity of the unit (up to 9kg I believe).
> Would love to hear from anyone who uses a Grainfather who has done a RIS or similar ABV beer & how it stacks up.


I have done several brews with a 9kg grain bill on the Gf.Efficiency takes a bit of a hit but I can still achieve a preboil gravity of 1065.I modified the recirc hose into the top of the malt pipe by using a short length of half inch hose with a 90 degree elbow on it.


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## Bridges (24/11/15)

Can also do reiterated mashes on BM / Grainfather. https://byo.com/bock/item/1317-reiterated-mashing-multiple-mashes-for-massive-brews


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## Moad (24/11/15)

Coodgee said:


> You could always do two mashes and boil them down to one batch of ris.


I did this on the Braumeister and picked up 3rd in the NSW comp with the RIS. it can be done on these systems, just requires a little effort.


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## Gregos (24/11/15)

My next brew in MY GF will be my 40th,My biggest grain bill is 8.5kg no problems, works well when adding rice hulls into grain to aid recirculation, I would highly recommend getting one, you won't be disappointed, comes with good instruction manual and easy to set up, use and keep clean.


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## btrots87 (7/12/15)

Sorry to hijack the original thread but I'm in a similar situation and didn't want to start another new Grainfather thread. I've got two questions that I was hoping someone might be able to help me with.

My first question is this, I know the "standard" batch size from the instruction manual is 23L with a 28L boil, I would prefer to get something closer to 19L in the fermenter with maybe an ~24L boil (wont know for sure until I figure out the boil off rate, but I'm assuming about 5L an hour from the instructions). Depending on my efficiency, this could mean that my grain bill is smaller than 4.5kg. Is anyone else consistently doing batches with grain bills this size and does it work as well as it does for larger sizes? I know there are instructions in the manual that just say add more mash water and subtract from the sparge water later, but I was wondering if people have found any issues with having a high water to grain ratio?

My second question is about the 18L sparge water heater. Is it worth spending the extra money given that I have a 15L stockpot and could probably just heat the water on my stove, although it won't be as easy to be accurate with the temperature, and my stovetop is terrible. It only just gets 10L to the boil, so I'm assuming I could get ~14L to 75C (haven't tested though). My other concern is running a 2000W grainfather and a 2000W sparge water heater on the same circuit in my kitchen, too much?

PS, I've never brewed all grain before so apologies if some of these questions seem obvious. I'm not really _considering _buying a grainfather so much as I've already decided to buy one, but just hoping to get as much info as possible so I can start off on the right foot.


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## Bribie G (7/12/15)

High water to grain ratio doesn't have any adverse effects, the Germans have been doing it for years by using hot water additions to do step mashing in most modern breweries over there.

On the power thing, I'd be wary of running 4000w on one circuit, even in a modern house or premises I've been at brew days where we have had a couple of systems going and tripped the circuits. For example we even tripped out Bacchus Brewing at a system wars brew day with an urn, a Braumeister and a couple of other things such as fans happening :blink:


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## bigmacthepunker (7/12/15)

Hi Btrots87.
I did my first GF brew last sat. Used a 40l birko urn with STC 1000 temp and GF with brauduino controller all on one circuit with no issues. I just heated the sparge water while mashing and then kept it at the correct temp to needed.


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## kaiserben (7/12/15)

I heat sparge water in a 19L Big W pot on my kitchen stovetop. I use a hand-held thermometer to check the temp.


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## welly2 (7/12/15)

btrots87 said:


> Sorry to hijack the original thread but I'm in a similar situation and didn't want to start another new Grainfather thread. I've got two questions that I was hoping someone might be able to help me with.
> 
> My first question is this, I know the "standard" batch size from the instruction manual is 23L with a 28L boil, I would prefer to get something closer to 19L in the fermenter with maybe an ~24L boil (wont know for sure until I figure out the boil off rate, but I'm assuming about 5L an hour from the instructions). Depending on my efficiency, this could mean that my grain bill is smaller than 4.5kg. Is anyone else consistently doing batches with grain bills this size and does it work as well as it does for larger sizes? I know there are instructions in the manual that just say add more mash water and subtract from the sparge water later, but I was wondering if people have found any issues with having a high water to grain ratio?
> 
> ...


Running the grainfather and a sparge water heater is a bit less of an issue because when you're mashing, you're mashing with the 500w element not the 2000w element. Although I could be completely wrong about power usage but I assume this is why I've never run into problems running my crown urn and my Grainfather (while mashing) on the same circuit.

I haven't done smaller batches with my Grainfather but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. There's instructions in the manual which talks about brewing smaller batches and the slight adjustments to the water quantity that needs doing.

I think my Grainfather is a cracking piece of kit. While I've got a reasonable amount of space, it's far less pissing around with than a 3v system (for me) and I'm getting basically the best beer I've ever made from it. It's definitely not an automated system that will do everything for you - in fact, the steps you take to brew with the Grainfather are exactly the same as with a 3v system, it's just that its all contained in one main vessel plus your sparge water vessel, so in reality it's a 2v system. Keeping mash temperature consistent and easy sparging is what I like most about it.


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## Coodgee (7/12/15)

I would recommend the urn it makes things a bit more luxurious. Just turn the urn on after you mash in and it's ready to go for the sparge. The surge protector on my power board will trip of i connect the grain father and urn at the same time but separate power points is fine


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## Killer Brew (7/12/15)

I use the pot on the stove method for the sparge water, couldn't justify the extra spend on top. Be aware that you will probably need to hit at least 80 degrees for your sparge water as you need it to be hitting 75 degrees as it runs through the wort.


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## jeremy (7/12/15)

I picked up a RoboBrew for my brother last week as he was keen to leap in at the deep end doing full mashes. Its hard to go past for the price. No doubt the Grainfather is better, but the different price points make them virtually incomparable. Like tossing up between a Great Wall and a Prado.

If it were me I would probably get a RoboBrew and a pump for recirc. I always was a bit of a tight ass though!


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## antiphile (7/12/15)

Bridges said:


> Can also do reiterated mashes on BM / Grainfather. https://byo.com/bock/item/1317-reiterated-mashing-multiple-mashes-for-massive-brews


I know this post goes back a fortnight or so, but I really do like Bridges' comment. Did one a while ago but I wasn't game to go the whole hog just in case, so I did a bastardised "1.5" reiterated mash just to do a prrof of concept sort of thing. Admittedly it was not on a 1V system, but it worked absolutely flawlessly.

When I get back to the batcave, I'm happy to do a proper reiterated mash (though, on the second mash I think I'll put in some rice hulls just in case seeing I've got a kilo of them left). Haven't finally decided what to brew, but winter is coming quickly, and I do love a good stout, so a RIS may be on the cards.

Happy to go one step at a time, so a 20% brew will have to wait!

Thanks Bridges.


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## Barge (7/12/15)

btrots87 said:


> My second question is about the 18L sparge water heater. Is it worth spending the extra money given that I have a 15L stockpot and could probably just heat the water on my stove, although it won't be as easy to be accurate with the temperature, and my stovetop is terrible. It only just gets 10L to the boil, so I'm assuming I could get ~14L to 75C (haven't tested though). My other concern is running a 2000W grainfather and a 2000W sparge water heater on the same circuit in my kitchen, too much?


You can always sparge with water straight out of the tap. Saw QldKev do it in a vid and thought, why not? Still got 80% mash efficiency without the hassle of heating sparge water. I think there's still quite a lot of residual heat in the grain that it probably doesn't matter that much.


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## btrots87 (7/12/15)

Bribie G said:


> High water to grain ratio doesn't have any adverse effects, the Germans have been doing it for years by using hot water additions to do step mashing in most modern breweries over there.


Thanks Bribie, that makes me feel better about the smaller batch brews.

Does anyone know if the temperature setting on the urns works by applying full power to the element and then turning off when its at temp, or by supplying a constant amount of lower power to the element? I suspect its the first one but was just wondering. 

I've had a look at my fuse box and can only see one circuit breaker labelled 'power'. Even with the grainfather set to mash and the urn turned on that's already ~2500w (~10.5 amps) split across 2 powerpoints. That should be fine on its own I think but if there's only one circuit wouldn't the rest of the stuff in my house potentially add up to an overload and trip the circuit? It's a small rental place and judging by the amount of light switches that aren't connected to anything I have my concerns about the wiring already. That said I'm definitely not an electrician and I could be missing something here (or just overthinking it).


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## Coodgee (7/12/15)

The urn is either on at full power or off. I wouldn't worry about the power man it's all within the capability of most domestic supplys.


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## btrots87 (7/12/15)

Coodgee said:


> The urn is either on at full power or off. I wouldn't worry about the power man it's all within the capability of most domestic supplys.


Haha, so overthinking it then?

Thanks for all the responses guys, I think I'll go with the sparge water heater. Now for the long wait until after Christmas when I can finally get brewing. Thinking something simple with pale malt, a bit of wheat, late galaxy and summer hops and fermented with recultured coopers yeast.


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