# Biofine



## Bribie G

I didn't know that Biofine existed until last week so I bought a bottle.
Gave it a whirl, added a capful (probably 6ml or so) when I kegged a lager last night. The beer was still a bit hazy, but here's after 20 hours.





Second pull out of keg, so we are looking at the very bottom horizons of the beer in the keg. Not yet carbed of course but actually enjoyable as it has a bit of spritz from the lagering rest.


Dis is da shee-yut 

disclaimer: I used the CraftBrewer reference here, but no doubt available elsewhere, no affiliation.
Ed: but high recommendation of course as always


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## Aus_Rider_22

Bribie G said:


> I didn't know that Biofine existed until last week so I bought a bottle.
> Gave it a whirl, added a capful (probably 6ml or so) when I kegged a lager last night. The beer was still a bit hazy, but here's after 20 hours.
> View attachment 106941
> 
> Second pull out of keg, so we are looking at the very bottom horizons of the beer in the keg. Not yet carbed of course but actually enjoyable as it has a bit of spritz from the lagering rest.
> 
> 
> Dis is da shee-yut
> 
> disclaimer: I used the CraftBrewer reference here, but no doubt available elsewhere, no affiliation.



It does work well in my experience, too.

I actually use 20-30ml per keg. Probably overkill for some batches but I am happy to buy more and avoid adding gelatine to or anything to my FVs.


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## Bribie G

I looked on an American pro-brewer forum and they use heaps of it nowadays, almost exclusively for clearing out brite tanks at microbreweries, they report 24 hour crystal clear. I'd expect it would be a lot less effective adding it to beer straight after primary fermentation, but for polishing up beer that's been cold conditioning for a while it's a real eye opener for me.


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## Stouter

With something like this stripping out remaining yeast, would it be a bad thing to use if bottling where you're relying on conditioning from yeast? Or would there still be enough yeast left to do the job, maybe take a bit longer?


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## Bribie G

I'd guess so - probably just take a bit longer. According to the "yeast" book, beer that looks perfectly clear to the human eye can still contain _n_ million yeast cells per ml.


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## Stouter

I'd prob only use something like this on my pales and such which I don't usually sit in the bottle for more than a couple of months. This might push the timeline out to an extra month or so.


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## technobabble66

What about re-using the yeast?
Do you think they'd be ok to go to work again, or regenerate, or would they be cooked after the silicic acid?

Edit: obviously ideally its applied in the keg or 2ndary FV, but just wondering on this scenario


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## manticle

You guys don't know anything. Brulosophy did a blind triangle taste test to compare gelatine and biofine in a honey kolsch

They used 12 tasters and drank out of opaque cups and the statistics weren't signifcant.


Yes.


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## Stouter

manticle said:


> You guys don't know anything. Brulosophy did a blind triangle taste test to compare gelatine and biofine in a honey kolsch
> 
> They used 12 tasters and drank out of opaque cups and the statistics weren't signifcant.
> 
> 
> Yes.


12 tasters who were blind drunk sitting in a triangle?


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## manticle

Twelve is a lot.

Twelve.


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## Stouter

Yes.

And those cups were opaque no less.


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## manticle




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## Dan2

Bribie G said:


> I looked on an American pro-brewer forum and they use heaps of it nowadays, almost exclusively for clearing out brite tanks at microbreweries, they report 24 hour crystal clear. I'd expect it would be a lot less effective adding it to beer straight after primary fermentation, but for polishing up beer that's been cold conditioning for a while it's a real eye opener for me.



We've been using it for all our beers. Around 750-1000ppm after CC'ing for a day or so with great results.
Still plenty of yeast left to bottle condition.
And our Pilsner - no filtration - crystal clear! Even kegs that have sat in the keg room at 18C for a month or 2 then chilled again - zero haze.

I used isinglass on my homebrew set up with great results, but biofine clear is already in liquid form and much easier to use. Just make sure it is thoroughly mixed.


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## ///

Not recommended for repitches, we us 4.5l per 60 hl, recircing with Co2 to distribute through the tanks. Fall rare is 5m a day which the height of our tanks.

Also goes under stabisol or brausol. The Kerry product thru bintani is expensive compared to the others.


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## Roosterboy

When I worked at Davis Gelatine in 1989 , we sold liquid gelatine called Liquifine and Superfine to the wine industry.
I don't know what happened to it.


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## Bribie G

And another legend is born. 40 hours in keg. 






Thanks for the comments, especially /// 
I'm about to start fermenting under pressure in a cornie and transferring to a second one. Plan A had been to fine in the primary before transferring, then CC and serve in the second one. 

Of course that has now been demoted to plan Z as I'll be reculturing in most cases.


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## Stouter

Bribie....is that the image of god I can see shining within that beer?


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## cliffo

Bribie G said:


> And another legend is born. 40 hours in keg.



I'm convinced.

Who's organising the bulk buy?


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## technobabble66

He who mentions it, runs it. [emoji6]


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## Lethaldog

Good on ya cliffo I'm in [emoji106]


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## abyss

Lethaldog said:


> Good on ya cliffo I'm in [emoji106]


Now that it's been mentioned I'm in if its gunna happen.


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## tj2204

I just threw 20ml into a keg of Irish red with stubborn 1084 and shook it like crazy. Looking forward to seeing how it goes compared to gelatin.


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## Bribie G

tj2204 said:


> I just threw 20ml into a keg of Irish red with stubborn 1084 and shook it like crazy. Looking forward to seeing how it goes compared to gelatin.


Photo, otherwise it didn't happen.


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## TidalPete

What sort of a shelf life does this stuff have?
Nothing on the bottle.

Edit --- I ask because IMHO BrewBrite, Polyclar, etc slowly degrade a few months after the container being opened even if kept refrigerated, so why not Biofine?


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## fletcher

sign me up for the bulk buy too [emoji23]


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## ///

Bribie G said:


> And another legend is born. 40 hours in keg.
> 
> View attachment 106968
> 
> 
> Thanks for the comments, especially ///
> I'm about to start fermenting under pressure in a cornie and transferring to a second one. Plan A had been to fine in the primary before transferring, then CC and serve in the second one.
> 
> Of course that has now been demoted to plan Z as I'll be reculturing in most cases.



No probs, what that picture shows is low protein levels as well.

It is great stuff but you need to manage it. Whilst we recirc with co2, if there is a heap of yeast it can stir up and fall out again. I would still rack off and brighten in a cube if you want to recycle yeast from the primary. 

It's not perfect, on a few iPas and lagers we find it will not drop as well as other batches. 

Anyway, if you get it right, perfect compared to a day on the filter.


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## Cervantes

I've just ordered some and will give it a go. Got to be easier than messing around with Gelatine.


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## Bribie G

This apparently is the same stuff. Depending on the concentration of colloidal silicon it may or may not be better value than the one I got from a sponsor. Wobbly might use it? I'll PM him to see if he has experience with it.


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## mstrelan

1. Cliffo
2. Lethaldog
3. abyss
4. fletcher
5. mstrelan

Thanks cliffo you're a legend.


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## cliffo

mstrelan said:


> Thanks cliffo you're a legend.



Ha! Yeah...nah. 

Sorry guys, not where my skill base lies.


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## scomet

Hi Guys; My first question, whats in it? Colloidal Silicon Dioxide? the ‘interwebs’ says its safe so it must be! I don't like the way the manufacturing process reads and I wonder if it conforms to the Reinheitsgebot / Biergesetz I would doubt it, I’m a filter convert and happy to be anal about sanitation + I wonder how many breweries use this and don't mention it on the label next to pure, organic, hand craft etc in fact I’m surprised no one has used the heart tick yet. Thx for posting Bribie G always great to see new products - my 2c……


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## Dan Pratt

can some one add me to the bulk buy?

how much for how much?


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## Bribie G

It's made in Germany and available as Stabifix, as /// stated. 
It's actually an old product but is - like so many others - starting to come into the orbit of home brewing. 

It conforms to the Reinheitsgebot. 

Now, with regard to the Williamswarn process, I've been thinking - they do two clarifications, presumably the first to rapidly drop the yeast then, after chilling, a second dose to remove any remaining haze. 
The double dose enables you to get clear carbonated beer within a week. 

However for most of us here, our equivalent of the first clarification is just normal attenuation then cold conditioning. Our equivalent of the WW second clarification would be in the keg, so we'd only need to use that one dose. So a litre bottle of WW product would, at their recommended dosage of 20ml, last for 50 brews. Very attractive prospect.


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## Tony121

Registering my interest for the bulk but when it happens.

Thanks for the info Bribie & others.


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## technobabble66

For those that struggle to Google, here's the Wiki on the active ingredient, silicic acid
Basically, it's naturally occurring (~ a hydrated form of silicon dioxide), in particular in oceanic waters; and it arguably might have health _benefits_ rather than detriments.
Looks safe based on that info.


edit NB: the product we're looking at is actually called "Biofine Clear" (as seen on the CB website in the link in post#1); whereas "Biofine" is a product by the same manufacturer that's basically just isinglass. 
MODs, maybe look at changing the title of the thread to "Biofine Clear"


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## Ducatiboy stu

Stouter said:


> Bribie....is that the image of god I can see shining within that beer?


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## wobbly

[QUOTE="Bribie G, Wobbly might use it? I'll PM him to see if he has experience with it.[/QUOTE]

Bribie At the very real risk of having this post moderated and me possibly being warned for posting information about my process in my Williamswarn I haven't used Biofine as such but I do use another silicon dioxide based product that I get from my local HBS (TWOC). I cant remember the name of it as I am currently away from home in Broome until the end of August. I did post details of the product in an earlier topic but I haven't done a search to find it this time. 

Your comments about the Williamswarn process are not quite correct according to their manual and instructions. Their recommended process is to chill to 1C for 24 hours and then remove and empty the yeast and other sediment collected in the sediment jar. Add 30 mills silicon dioxide via the injection pot through a fine strainer so as to ensure no crystals that may have formed in the product can enter the system and possibly block equipment and then force it into the chamber with CO2 and use an extra charge/blast of CO2 (about 10 seconds) to ensure the product is well mixed with the beer and leave settle for another 24 hours and if you see fit (want a clearer beer) repeat the process a second time but only using 20 mills. 

The manual states that from their experience there is some reaction that occurs between the settled yeast and the clarification agent that reduces the efficeincy and hence their recommendation to chill first, empty out the settled yeast and then proceed and clarify as per their process. The process works with most dry yeasts they use with the exception of T58 and WB-06

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Bribie G

Thanks, clears that up (no pun). I wonder whether the WW product is the same concentration as the stuff from TWOC or CraftBrewer etc.


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## manticle

Why would you be moderated?

As far as I know, you've never had posts removed for simply detailing the processes of your system in response to a related query. Won't be for this one either.

Cheers for the in depth response


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## wobbly

If you are considering using this product be aware that "Biofine" and "Biofine Clear" are 2 different products as per the description

_*Biofine™* is a purified form of collagen isolated from the swim bladders of tropical fish. The isinglass molecule is a triple helix of amino acids, with an overall net positive charge at beer pH. It forms large aggregates with the negatively charged yeast cells thereby increasing their rate of sedimentation.
_
_*Biofine™ Clear* has been specially formulated for the rapid sedimentation of yeast and other haze forming particles in beer. It is based on colloidal silicon dioxide and as such complies with all legislation and allergen labelling issues_.

Bribie the product that I get from TWOC and use is called "Stabiclar30" 

Cheers

Wobbly


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## ///

Remember silica hydrogels are primarily for yeast. If you are having haze issues then attack it in the mash tun by having a coarser crush and step mash (50c). If you are using wheat then there ain't much you can do


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## cliffo

I'm now a biofine convert.

1 week after adding.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

Ahh look at that! The dragons season ending.


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## mofox1

Bandwagon... Biofine en route.


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## rude

Shite might have to follow


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## fungrel

Been using Biofine Clear since March. Not going to be going back to gelatine any time soon, i get better results with this product.


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## cliffo

I'm finding the worst part about Biofine is that I keep watching the TV through my glass.

Adds a different perspective I guess


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## Bribie G

Jesus is watching you get pissed


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## Batz

Did some kegging today and added Biofine. I do double brews so 4, 18lt kegs and 2, 9lt kegs. That makes a mess of the 120ml bottle of Biofine.
We need to find somewhere selling in bigger bottles, or find a bulk buy source.


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## tj2204

tj2204 said:


> I just threw 20ml into a keg of Irish red with stubborn 1084 and shook it like crazy. Looking forward to seeing how it goes compared to gelatin.


This still took ages to clear. It is clear as now, but to be honest I think gelatine works better, quicker and is a hell of a lot cheaper. 

Still have 100ml left so my opinion may change.


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## fletcher

Batz said:


> Did some kegging today and added Biofine. I do double brews so 4, 18lt kegs and 2, 9lt kegs. That makes a mess of the 120ml bottle of Biofine.
> We need to find somewhere selling in bigger bottles, or find a bulk buy source.



no affiliation but hoppy days do: https://www.hoppydaysbrewingsupplies.com.au/product/biofine-clear-a3-250ml/


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## fungrel

Batz said:


> Did some kegging today and added Biofine. I do double brews so 4, 18lt kegs and 2, 9lt kegs. That makes a mess of the 120ml bottle of Biofine.
> We need to find somewhere selling in bigger bottles, or find a bulk buy source.



I would've only used about 5-6ml per 19L keg for hoppy beers, how much was recommended?


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## Batz

fungrel said:


> I would've only used about 5-6ml per 19L keg for hoppy beers, how much was recommended?



How did it go with 5-6 ml?
I see people here using up to 30ml per 19lt keg. I used 20ml in one then 15ml in the other 19lt kegs.
This my first time using Biofine so I can adjust from here.


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## fungrel

I found 6ml has always worked well for me, never felt the need to up the dosage. 

I don't make many aggressively hopped beers so i'm guessing your milage may vary, but based on the results from 6ml i can't see it take much more than that. It's critical to make sure the beer and liquid is mixed correctly at the lowest possible temp. it works best for me when the beer is 1c or below.


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## TidalPete

Batz said:


> We need to find somewhere selling in bigger bottles, or find a bulk buy source.



Have a look at Hoppy Days.
Biggest bottle I can find/need ATM.
Happy to be corrected but TTBOMK retailers buy in bulk & split into bottles of their choice.
Ask for a deal on a bottle you supply. You never know your luck.


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## Batz

fletcher said:


> no affiliation but hoppy days do: https://www.hoppydaysbrewingsupplies.com.au/product/biofine-clear-a3-250ml/



Cheers, I didn't see Hoppy had it


TidalPete said:


> Have a look at Hoppy Days.
> Biggest bottle I can find/need ATM.
> Happy to be corrected but TTBOMK retailers buy in bulk & split into bottles of their choice.
> Ask for a deal on a bottle you supply. You never know your luck.



Yes found and ordered from Hoppy Days. Although still yet to see the results of my trials? Must crack a keg tomorrow.


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## Batz

An IPA, so naturally heavy handed with the hops, also 60gm cube hops that also where also tipped into the fermenter. 
I did a cold crash for 4 days as I do with all my beers, just part of my brew regime.

The photo does not really do it justice, very clear for an IPA. At this early stage using


Biofine I'm quite impressed. 
Should memtion the IPA was 6 days in the keg.


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## Stouter

Silicic Acid - Wikipedia

*Biological research*
Research of the correlation of aluminium and Alzheimer's disease has included the ability of silicic acid in beer reduce aluminium uptake in the digestive system as well as increase renal excretion of aluminium [10][11]



- Ordering some Biofine today. This reads to me like I'm soon to be pumping out aluminium in mass quantities!


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## Danscraftbeer

I wouldn't think there is any aluminum in our beer. Is there?


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## Mardoo

Not sure. Our beer is often in aluminium though.


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## Mr B

You got me, just ordered some (and some oak chips for a RIS and a couple of other things as well).

Incendentally, these kind of purchases get notified on my wifes mobile. We'll see how it pans out.


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## Stouter

Not sure about aluminium in beer, but there must be some taken into the digestive system through other things surely.
Finally I can detox by drinking beer.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

It's a bit of myth that aluminium has a link to causing alzimers. The original info was from a study which has no other studies backing it up.

Dr Karl on triplej spoke about it a few years ago. I can't remember the specifics, all I remember is that it is a bit of a myth. Kinda like sitting on a cold surface causes hemaroids.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles

Aluminium is very reactive in solution.

Combine this with it being trivalent and you are in for all sorts of haze problems in beer (and wine) as the Al reacts with everything in sight and binds them together.

I believe the threshold for beer is about 1 ppm, above that it causes the problems mentioned.


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## Mardoo

Initially, the aluminium/Alzheimer's thing started because there were high levels of aluminium in the brains of Alzheimers patients. However, correlation does not indicate causation, and it turned out that it's not the aluminium causing Alzheimer's, but there as a result of the disease.


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## fungrel

Don' mean to derail conversation but thought i should share.

You don't need huge amounts of the stuff. Just has to be as close to 0c as possible when you add it and mix well.

4ml into a double dry hopped American Wheat (50% wheat). Hop flowers are still in the keg.

This is 24hrs after kegging. Has cleared up a little since the photo.

View attachment 108043
View attachment 108043


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## Bribie G

I've just been adding a capful (Craftbrewer bottle) and at the request of another AHB member I accurately measured it, and it turned out spot on 10ml. 

Might try 5ml in my 4 Pines Pale Ale tribute that I'm due to keg on Tuesday after doing -1 for a few days.


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## Bribie G

Mardoo said:


> Initially, the aluminium/Alzheimer's thing started because there were high levels of aluminium in the brains of Alzheimers patients. However, correlation does not indicate causation, and it turned out that it's not the aluminium causing Alzheimer's, but there as a result of the disease.


Off topic but the major component of dust in the air, especially if you live in a clay soil area, is a range of Aluminium Silicates. It's been calculated that on a dusty day your snot traps more aluminium than using cookware for a year. Snort snort sniff gulp. ahhhh.


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## Mardoo

Personally, I'd rather worry about clear beer than Alzheimer's. One I can do something about, one I can't. So I'll buy some Biofine  Looks like great results across the board.


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## stewy

Bribie G said:


> I've just been adding a capful (Craftbrewer bottle) and at the request of another AHB member I accurately measured it, and it turned out spot on 10ml.
> 
> Might try 5ml in my 4 Pines Pale Ale tribute that I'm due to keg on Tuesday after doing -1 for a few days.



OT - how close is your 4 Pines tribute? I can happily smash a few of those & would be keen on having a keg of similar on hand


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## Bribie G

I'll keg on Tuesday, and with the Mighty Biofine and a good gas charge it should be ready for the "what's in the Glass" thread by the end of the week. If it turns out I'll post the recipe as well. I'll be getting a pint of the proper stuff for a side by side.


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## Coldspace

Batz said:


> An IPA, so naturally heavy handed with the hops, also 60gm cube hops that also where also tipped into the fermenter.
> I did a cold crash for 4 days as I do with all my beers, just part of my brew regime.
> 
> The photo does not really do it justice, very clear for an IPA. At this early stage usingView attachment 107676
> Biofine I'm quite impressed.
> Should memtion the IPA was 6 days in the keg.


Hey Batz 
Looks great, I'm keen to brew a nice light coloured IPA next week. Care to pm roughly receipe mate.?


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## fungrel

4ml added to a very cold beer (-0.1c), image taken 24hrs after packaging.


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## Meddo

So how does this stuff behave? Is it like gelatin where the first glass clears the muck from the bottom then the rest is clear? Got some to dose a fresh keg for a camping trip on the weekend - would be good to know what to expect since it'll be bounced around in the car for a couple of hours, if that first glass is going to be the muck I'll draw it off before travelling.

Thanks,


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## Bribie G

Gelatine forms "fluffy bottoms" that rise up when a keg or a bottle is moved. Biofine not only settles more quickly but is resistant to being shaken up. But because it settles quicker and more compactly you can get rid of the sludge far quicker. Good idea to check that your dip tubes sit down into the little well at the bottom of the cornie for max efficiency.

Last night I biofined a keg of Four Pines tribute. The beer was fairly clear into the keg but only four hours later when I ran some through the tap to make sure connections were ok, I got a glass of pure sludge so a lot of settling had already taken place.

I just drew off (4pm) about 200 ml of sludge, then 200ml of cloudy beer, and this is the next glass at *20* hours, which of course I quaffed .. this will be crystal by tomorrow.






So in your case if travelling, then you should be able to transport it as bright beer no worries. 

ed: if I hadn't been so impatient and just let things rest for a couple more days I bet that the first glass would have been sludge then the second glass would be the quaffer and clearer than the one in the photo. 

Hmmm might draw off another one. 

I'll report on the four pines on Friday, in the _what's in the glass_ thread.


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## Meddo

Bribie G said:


> Gelatine forms "fluffy bottoms" that rise up when a keg or a bottle is moved. Biofine not only settles more quickly but is resistant to being shaken up. But because it settles quicker and more compactly you can get rid of the sludge far quicker. Good idea to check that your dip tubes sit down into the little well at the bottom of the cornie for max efficiency.
> 
> Last night I biofined a keg of Four Pines tribute. The beer was fairly clear into the keg but only four hours later when I ran some through the tap to make sure connections were ok, I got a glass of pure sludge so a lot of settling had already taken place.
> 
> I just drew off (4pm) about 200 ml of sludge, then 200ml of cloudy beer, and this is the next glass at *20* hours, which of course I quaffed .. this will be crystal by tomorrow.
> 
> View attachment 108138
> 
> 
> So in your case if travelling, then you should be able to transport it as bright beer no worries.
> 
> I'll report on the four pines on Friday, in the _what's in the glass_ thread.



Ripper, thanks for that Bribie.


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## ///

Fall rate of 5m a day at near zero. We also recirc for 10 mins after dosing to mix in, works better. If you blow it up and disturb the yeast it falls out quickly if cold


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## Bribie G

At the home brew scale if you pour the Biofine into a CO2 filled keg then immediately rack the beer in with swirling and splashing, seal and flush headspace, then you can lay keg down and roll for a couple of minutes.
I usually get completely bright beer in 48 hours.

What I love about this stuff is that it now gives me the ability to recreate many of the bright tank unpasteurised beers of the 60s and 70s that I grew up on in the UK . Currently experimenting with an old Boddingtons recipe.

These beers need to be clear as a bell to be on style.


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## RdeVjun

Pondering this approach, very similar to Bribie's method above:
CC in FV at 0° for several days
Prepare corny keg and put in Biofine
Drain FV into corny keg and close lid
Purge corny keg with CO2 through beer out post to avoid stratified Biofine
Leave corny to carbonate at serving pressure
Profit

Downside: No Biofine in the few PET bottles I usually tap from the FV and set aside to bottle condition. This is no real biggie as once carbonated they usually sit in the conditioning fridge for a few months before they are needed (comps) and usually clear up fairly well anyway. 

Upside: Plenty, can't possibly argue with crystal clear beer with such ease. Also yeast in FV remains unadulterated.

I use the Cask Widge as well, TBH it's quite a magical device but my first few test batches with Biofine are simply astounding, reaches the next level. Thanks heaps Pete for the sample!


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## Gloveski

loving biofine alot less mucking around than gelatine , am suprised at the amount of muck that comes out on the last half a schooner when a keg blows


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## Batz

Gloveski said:


> loving biofine alot less mucking around than gelatine , am suprised at the amount of muck that comes out on the last half a schooner when a keg blows



Me too, freaked me out a bit. I had to flush the beer lines straight away, I didn't want that crap sitting in them and the taps.


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## ///

RdeVjun said:


> Pondering this approach, very similar to Bribie's method above:
> CC in FV at 0°
> Purge corny keg with CO2 through beer out post to avoid stratified Biofine
> Also yeast in FV remains unadulterated.



Just to confirm, Biofine/Brausol/Silicasol is best added to the FV. As soon as it goes on Chill

This affects the yeast and will bomb everything out.You then take off to the keg or racking tank and away you go. 

This is not meant to be a ‘fined to keg’ sorta deal. It was actually designed to be used in fv prior to the beer running thru DE/Kessiegur filters to improve run lengths. That is, running 1200hl thru a filter that would normally do 600hl. 

Scotty


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## RdeVjun

OK, thanks Scotty.
Occurred to me as a brainwave in the middle of the night that the cask widge beer out is also a bit iffy for CO2 purge, probably won't be very effective floating on the surface, while I'm also a serial slurry repitcher, so rethinking.


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## Mardoo

Once again /// thanks for chiming in!


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## rude

So for pressure ferment release pressure
Take lid off & add biofine
Put lid back on & purge with co2 in the out post to stir biofine
Crash chill then rack to serving keg
Hows that process sound


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## fungrel

rude said:


> So for pressure ferment release pressure
> Take lid off & add biofine
> Put lid back on & purge with co2 in the out post to stir biofine
> Crash chill then rack to serving keg
> Hows that process sound


Get it as cold as possible first ideally 0c.


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## malt junkie

rude said:


> So for pressure ferment release pressure
> Take lid off & add biofine
> Put lid back on & purge with co2 in the out post to stir biofine
> Crash chill then rack to serving keg
> Hows that process sound


I'd mix with 100ml of pre boiled water in pet bottle with carb cap over pressure the pet, then hook up to the gas in on the fermenter, and pull the prv, no exposure to air.


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## wobbly

Why wouldn't you inject the liquid in via the "liquid out post" so that it goes to the bottom of the FV and then purge additional co2 through the out post to mix it all up.
Then wait for around 12/24 hours at 0c before racking to serving vessel (assuming dip tube has been shortened) and thereby leaving most/all sediment behind

Wobbly


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## bradsbrew

If using a fermentasaurus, the beer out line floats on top.


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## Coodgee

there is some mention in the instructions for breweries that it needs to be mixed really well and they suggest adding to the bright tank on filling.


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## Coodgee

from the hoppy days website (pretty sure I have read it elsewhere from the manufacturer) 

Biofine Clear is extremely rapid acting and optimally added on transfer to the aging tank for optimal dispersion in the beer. Direct addition can be to the aging tank, however, emphasis must be placed on good dispersion, i.e. multiple addition points and a good CO2 purge to minimize stratification.

_Application rates should be determined by brewery scale trials._


----------



## Batz

Well I racked a lager into secondary today and added Biofine, up until now I have added it to the keg. It was in CC for 3 days, I'll leave it another 4-5 days and keg.
I would like to see less of the muck in the first and last glasses.


Batz


----------



## Bribie G

I've caught up on the brewing and have two cornies in a spare kegmate at 4 degrees. My quick and dirty solution is after a week, run off the muck then return to cold storage / ageing. I'll be interested to see how it goes when the kegs blow.


----------



## RdeVjun

Thanks Coodgee, that is precisely where I sourced my info from too, viz. stratification.


----------



## Batz

Batz said:


> Well I racked a lager into secondary today and added Biofine, up until now I have added it to the keg. It was in CC for 3 days, I'll leave it another 4-5 days and keg.
> I would like to see less of the muck in the first and last glasses.
> 
> 
> Batz



Well I kegged this yesterday and as above, no biofine in the keg just in secondary. This is the very first glass poured, no muck what so ever. The beer is crystal clear, it looks even better than the photo in real life.
This will be my CBP using Biofine.

No more keg mud.

Batz


----------



## mofox1

How long did you have the biofine in before kegging, batz?


----------



## Batz

mofox1 said:


> How long did you have the biofine in before kegging, batz?



4 days. I looked into the fermenter and could see it was already clear azz.


----------



## Bribie G

Batz how did you add without O2 introduction? 

I usually keep the FVs tight as a fishes till kegging.


----------



## Batz

Bribie G said:


> Batz how did you add without O2 introduction?
> 
> I usually keep the FVs tight as a fishes till kegging.



I just racked as per usual, no C02 introduction. You could purge the receiving FV I guess.
You have your system there and by the sounds of it racking to secondary won't fit into it well.

I'll be racking my Munich Dunkel in the next few days. I'm even going to rack an IPA heavily cubed hopped to see what happens.


----------



## stewy

Batz said:


> I just racked as per usual, no C02 introduction. You could purge the receiving FV I guess.
> You have your system there and by the sounds of it racking to secondary won't fit into it well.
> 
> I'll be racking my Munich Dunkel in the next few days. I'm even going to rack an IPA heavily cubed hopped to see what happens.




Do you think it would work well if I add to primary fermenter?
Currently add to keg & it works amazingly well. Haven't blown a keg yet to see whether the last half pint is as muddy as the first half pint


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## bradsbrew

How does biofine handle transporting of kegs? Does it stir up like gelatine?

Cheers


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## Bribie G

I just popped a keg of Toohey's 1913 Standard Pale Ale. It had been in CC for ten days at about 2 degrees then kegged with Biofine and left for about another 10 days. 
I only got maybe a half schooner of gunk, following which it was nice and bright. Personally I'm having success by pretty well clearing out in the FV before racking into the keg with Biofine. 

I'm in a good position, with two Kegmate fermenting / lagering fridges so I'm in no hurry.


----------



## Batz

stewy said:


> Do you think it would work well if I add to primary fermenter?
> Currently add to keg & it works amazingly well. Haven't blown a keg yet to see whether the last half pint is as muddy as the first half pint



New days Bribie, You tell us.


----------



## Batz

Does it stir up like gelatine?


bradsbrew said:


> How does biofine handle transporting of kegs?
> 
> Cheers



Does it stir up like gelatine? Yes it does..


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## fishingbrad

So after reading this entire thread, it's still not clear to me as why Bio is so much better than gelatine. Can any tell explain what you hated about gel, and how bio fixes that ? cheers in advance.


----------



## manticle

The most glaringly obvious ones are that it acts faster, more effectively, removes yeast and non-yeast related haze and is not animal based.


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## mtb

In addition to what manticle said - preparation time is much lower. Whereas gelatin requires mixture with warm water and therefore more attention to sanitisation, I can simply shoot some biofine from a sanitised syringe straight from the bottle.


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## fishingbrad

mtb said:


> In addition to what manticle said - preparation time is much lower. Whereas gelatin requires mixture with warm water and therefore more attention to sanitisation, I can simply shoot some biofine from a sanitised syringe straight from the bottle.



Is that straight into the keg?


----------



## mtb

I do it in the keg, yes, but I don't see why you couldn't fine in the fermenter prior to transfer too. As long as it's cold.


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## fishingbrad

What I've on this thread, you cannot re-use the yeast when applying to the Fv. Which in my case wouldn't work for me. so it would have to be into the keg. And as Batz said it will still stir up in the bottom if moved around. So i'm just trying to see the benefits over gel. F*** it, for $14 I'll just try it myself and report back. cheers.


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## mtb

I've washed yeast from a biofine'd yeast cake plenty of times, who said you couldn't?


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## Bribie G

Probably a commercial brewery thing.
In any case I always thought that they would have dumped their yeast from the bottom of the conicals prior to Biofine anyway.


----------



## fishingbrad

mtb said:


> I've washed yeast from a biofine'd yeast cake plenty of times, who said you couldn't?



It was an earlier post that I read too much into. You have had success with washing, so that the only concern I had using it. Thank you MTB.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

fishingbrad said:


> What I've on this thread, you cannot re-use the yeast when applying to the Fv. Which in my case wouldn't work for me. so it would have to be into the keg. And as Batz said it will still stir up in the bottom if moved around. So i'm just trying to see the benefits over gel. F*** it, for $14 I'll just try it myself and report back. cheers.


If your worried about collecting the yeast with any fining agent in it Brad, you could always skim it off the High Krausen, unless of course if you are a lager man then it would have to be taken off the bottom.


----------



## ///

Bribie G said:


> Probably a commercial brewery thing.
> In any case I always thought that they would have dumped their yeast from the bottom of the conicals prior to Biofine anyway.



As Bribie said. Remember the initial point of silica hydrogel was to improve DE filter performance. That is, to enable a better and longer run, it will allow you to do 120hl odd run compared to a 60hl if the beer was unfined and only cold cellared for 2-4 day’s as example. On the commercial side, in the big breweries the beer would be off yeast and likely in a bbt before transfer to a packaging tank. Even without that, good commercial practice is to start pulling yeast as soon as the tank is cleared for vdk and put to chill.

Cone to cone pitching is best done when the beer is still warm. We had heaps of issues pitching cold, a chat with a mate recommended warm pitches, the fermentation and beer quality shot up straight away. Soooo, normally we would not reuse that yeast again anyway once cold and if so, only as a last resort.

If you are seeking to maximise yeast precipitation and coagulation making sure you add water salts is also key. Yee olde metal calcium forms an ionic bridge with the yeast to help it come together and fall out. Part of the long cellaring times in soft water areas is due to the lack of metals to help yeast come together and clear out the beer ...


----------



## EalingDrop

/// said:


> As Bribie said. Remember the initial point of silica hydrogel was to improve DE filter performance. That is, to enable a better and longer run, it will allow you to do 120hl odd run compared to a 60hl if the beer was unfined and only cold cellared for 2-4 day’s as example. On the commercial side, in the big breweries the beer would be off yeast and likely in a bbt before transfer to a packaging tank. Even without that, good commercial practice is to start pulling yeast as soon as the tank is cleared for vdk and put to chill.
> 
> Cone to cone pitching is best done when the beer is still warm. We had heaps of issues pitching cold, a chat with a mate recommended warm pitches, the fermentation and beer quality shot up straight away. Soooo, normally we would not reuse that yeast again anyway once cold and if so, only as a last resort.
> 
> If you are seeking to maximise yeast precipitation and coagulation making sure you add water salts is also key. Yee olde metal calcium forms an ionic bridge with the yeast to help it come together and fall out. Part of the long cellaring times in soft water areas is due to the lack of metals to help yeast come together and clear out the beer ...


Hi all,

I read that it also accentuates malt character, which I'm keen to try on the recent batch of Vienna Lager (albeit a slow yeast acitvity)

Let me know if this isn't right or needs improvement.

1.CC Primary at 1c for 2 days
2.Carefully leaving the trub/yeast cake behind whilst racking to secondary with Biofine to ensure a good mixing. (Is this vigorous enough for a good mixing?)
3. Leave for 2-3 days in secondary before bottle conditioning.

I use mini kegs and naturally carb them. So it'll be around 2 weeks at 17c then the lagering begins after that.


Thank you in advance chaps!


----------



## Batz

Biofine ya wanker.


----------



## Bribie G

EalingDrop said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I read that it also accentuates malt character, which I'm keen to try on the recent batch of Vienna Lager (albeit a slow yeast acitvity)
> 
> Let me know if this isn't right or needs improvement.
> 
> 1.CC Primary at 1c for 2 days
> 2.Carefully leaving the trub/yeast cake behind whilst racking to secondary with Biofine to ensure a good mixing. (Is this vigorous enough for a good mixing?)
> 3. Leave for 2-3 days in secondary before bottle conditioning.
> 
> I use mini kegs and naturally carb them. So it'll be around 2 weeks at 17c then the lagering begins after that.
> 
> 
> Thank you in advance chaps!


There's a danger of oxidising the brew, might need to find some way of flushing the secondary container with CO2 prior to leaving it in secondary before bottling. 
If bottling, personally I would rather clear the beer to almost bright by CCing in primary and just bottle directly out of that, without Biofine. Let time do its thing.


----------



## EalingDrop

Kegging done last weekend and it was crystal clear going in. 
Was curious to see what a Biofined yeast cake layer looks like (probably no difference), but it was covered by a layer of ice from the CC during the secondary.

It's now naturally carbing at 17c. 

So, it's turn out to be a nice experiment. A lager that has been CC to an inch of it's life with Biofine added- Will it still have enough yeast to naturally carb?


----------



## Batz

Has anyone found their bottle of Biofine separates? I used mine this morning and the bottom half of the bottle has crystals in it, similar to undissolved salt or sugar. I have had it stored in the fridge rather than the warm shed, now back to room temperature and after shaking like mad still separates?? 
I'm hoping it still performs, I'll know in a couple of days I guess.

Anyone else found their bottle like this?


----------



## Batz

Batz said:


> Has anyone found their bottle of Biofine separates? I used mine this morning and the bottom half of the bottle has crystals in it, similar to undissolved salt or sugar. I have had it stored in the fridge rather than the warm shed, now back to room temperature and after shaking like mad still separates??
> I'm hoping it still performs, I'll know in a couple of days I guess.
> 
> Anyone else found their bottle like this?




I found this, mine was in the fridge not the freezer. Seems like mine is now useless, warning keep it out of the fridge.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=459547


----------



## Batz

Regards the posts by me above,





This shows the separation of my Biofine. Yes just a little pissed, racked 100lt of brews into 4 fermenters this morning for shit. Not to mention an almost full 250ml bottle of Biofine for the the bin.


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## mtb

That sucks.

You'd think a nice "Do not refrigerate" on the label wouldn't be a difficult task


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## Batz

mtb said:


> That sucks.
> 
> You'd think a nice "Do not refrigerate" on the label wouldn't be a difficult task



I have contacted the HBS I bought it from an made this suggestion. It's a newer addition to most retailers so I guess this was not well known before?


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## mofox1

Crap - better take mine out of the fridge!


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## bradsbrew

And here I was concerned that it was just sitting on the bench in the shed.


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## fishingbrad

I feel for you Batz. 
I got 2 lagers in the keezer now both with Bio, and yes it works quicker than Gel but it still stirs up just as much if you move/ bump the keg. So I'm not really overly impressed so far. Moving forward, I got 2 ales fermenting ATM, both the same. I will bio 1 and gel the other. However, if I see the bottle of bio separate or anything suss, it's in the bin and straight back to Gel.


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## Mothballs

Hi Batz, we have been using Biofine Clear for a couple of years now and we have always stored ours in the coldroom and have not had any issues with separation so far. It has always been effective using it straight from the coldroom. In fact I have personally found it to be such a good product that I have stopped filtering and am getting beers as bright as those that were filtered and polyclared. Just checked with our supplier and the spec sheet has a recommended storage temp of 5-32 Deg C but do not allow it to freeze. Hopefully the beers you racked will still be ok. I guess time will tell.


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## Batz

Mothballs said:


> Hi Batz, we have been using Biofine Clear for a couple of years now and we have always stored ours in the coldroom and have not had any issues with separation so far. It has always been effective using it straight from the coldroom. In fact I have personally found it to be such a good product that I have stopped filtering and am getting beers as bright as those that were filtered and polyclared. Just checked with our supplier and the spec sheet has a recommended storage temp of 5-32 Deg C but do not allow it to freeze. Hopefully the beers you racked will still be ok. I guess time will tell.



Thanks mate, and the Biofine that I bought from you was also in the fridge and did not separate? I love the stuff and will not filter again, I do rack and add biofine to stop any stirring up or sludge in the keg. Up until now it's been great
Mothballs....put it into larger size containers, that's why I changed suppliers. Silly me


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## Batz

fishingbrad said:


> I feel for you Batz.
> I got 2 lagers in the keezer now both with Bio, and yes it works quicker than Gel but it still stirs up just as much if you move/ bump the keg. So I'm not really overly impressed so far. Moving forward, I got 2 ales fermenting ATM, both the same. I will bio 1 and gel the other. However, if I see the bottle of bio separate or anything suss, it's in the bin and straight back to Gel.



To get the full advantage you need to rack, my kegs are crystal clear to the last beer. Shake them up if you like, still clear azz.
I just may have been sold an inferior product.


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## Gloveski

Well I added some extra dry hop to half a keg for a bit of extra kick . But the hop sock must have been to course so now my brew ilooks like a NEIPA . So I have added some biofine and gave her a shake so see if she can clear this unsitely brew. It might need a few days I think. Also I have noticed crystals around the top of my little bottle but no seperation that I can tell


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## Batz

Bump for the afternoon brewers, read back a few threads.
Don't refrigerate your Biofine.


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## BJB

So where did you buy this batch?


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## Dan2

Maybe it was just too cold Batz.
We store ours in our 8-10C keg room.
Checked it yesterday and it's fine.
Previous drum had some sediment in the last litre, but that would've just been precipitates - this one was stored in the office @ 10-30C


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## Batz

Dan2 said:


> Maybe it was just too cold Batz.
> We store ours in our 8-10C keg room.
> Checked it yesterday and it's fine.
> Previous drum had some sediment in the last litre, but that would've just been precipitates - this one was stored in the office @ 10-30C



It would seem that way, funny part is the fridge also holds my yeast bank and none or those have ever frozen.
Anyway done now, Biofine is in the bin. I will be ordering some more shortly.

Batz


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## EalingDrop

Quick update on the extreme CC Vienna Lager. Really nice clarity from the first pour.

Good to see there were enough yeast to naturally carbonate afterall!


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## Mardoo

Nice. One of my favourite lagers to brew.


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## mtb

Gonna need that Vienna Lager recipe.


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## Mardoo

I know you're asking for his, but mine is 100% Vienna malt, either triple decocted or with a touch of melanoidin, Hersbrucker Hersbrucker at 60 for 25 IBU's. Just drinkable as shit. Got that from the guy with the Dopethrone cover as his Avatar, IIRC.


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## mtb

Mardoo said:


> I know you're asking for his, but mine is 100% Vienna malt, either triple decocted or with a touch of melanoidin, Hersbrucker Hersbrucker at 60 for 25 IBU's. Just drinkable as shit. Got that from the guy with the Dopethrone cover as his Avatar, IIRC.


Mate if it's good enough for you it's sure as hell good enough for me. I have excess Vienna Malt and a couple liquid lager yeasts to use.. Just found their purpose!


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## Mardoo

May I recommend keeping it around 5%. Mine ended up 6.75%, and three pints of it is a bit much in an hour, but easy to drink that fast


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## mtb

Understood!


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## EalingDrop

MTB, the recipe is based primarily on Greg Hughes. I use a basic app and I'm unable to copy and paste it like the more fancy brew apps other members use. 

Typed up the old fashion way like a Durden Park circle recipe...

80% Vienna, 14% Munich, 3% Melanoiden, 1% Choc (SRM 7, photo suggests higher). Northern Brewer 30g @ 60 min, [email protected] flame out (22 IBU). Yeast. Oktoberfest Lager WLP820. SG 1.054 FG 1.010.

The fermentation schedule is based on Brulosophy fast lager.

The head retension wasn't great and towards the end it looked like whisky. I don't know if it's the recipe, Biofine or a combination of both.


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## mtb

Much appreciated mate. I think I'll brew both your recipes this holiday season.. I know I'll need the stock


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## Andy_27

Where does everyone buy their Biofine? I can only find it at Craftbrewer.


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## hairydog

I have found Hoppy Days the best price for Biofine(Brisbane) if I remember around $45 per litre plus freight.


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## Batz

Craftbrewer will do 500ml bottles $27.50.

I'm a bit nervous about buying anything over 250ml ATM, after chucking almost a full bottle out.


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## fishingbrad

I keep my bio in the cupboard with all my other salts, acid, whirlfloc, etc, etc. Anyway, got it out last night and held it up to the light and all looks good. I have 2 ales CCing ATM, so I gave each FV a gentle swirl and added 10ml of bio each. Will report back once I transfer to kegs. 
@Batz, I hear what your saying about racking to secondary, I moved away from that step years ago because of the oxidizes problems I was getting, so I'm reluctant to go back. However, if this doesn't work I will rack but only for the kegs that need to travel. Cheers.


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## Andy_27

hairydog said:


> I have found Hoppy Days the best price for Biofine(Brisbane) if I remember around $45 per litre plus freight.


Cheers! Just placed an order to try some!


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## ///

How much! I used Brausol and pay $6 per kg ...although in 20l drums. We go thru a drum a week


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## S.E

Bulk buy anyone?


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## Dan Pratt

/// said:


> How much! I used Brausol and pay $6 per kg ...although in 20l drums. We go thru a drum a week



20 homebrewers, $8 per kg and must buy a pint on pickup from brewery

can we do that /// ?


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## El Jefe

Inspired by the fearless and peerless brewers before me, I jumped on the Biofine Clear bandwagon to see what the fuss was all about.

I'm not too hung up on the aesthetics of a clear beer, and I have always been happy with how clear I can get it with the only additives of time and temperature, but I figured that a rushed Pale Ale for the upcoming first Ashes would be an appropriate test, pun intended.

First pour (after pushing through the previous Red Ale in the line), exactly a mere 24 hours in the keg.

Oh, my.











Admittedly, whilst it's my favourite glass to drink from, it's not the best for taking photos of clarity through condensation on an overcast and rainy day. It was actually crystal clear.










That's the remnants of the head from underneath.

I followed my usual regime, except after cold crashing in a conical, I racked 24L onto 15ml of Biofine mixed with 200ml or so of boiled water, two days in the plastic fermenter and then kegged.

I have the exact same recipe (apart from a maltster change for research purposes) following in 5 days time. I will opt for 10ml with that one. Maybe less. The sheer amount of sediment it dropped at the end was astounding.

Whilst not a game changer for me, I seriously like the option of being able to tap a beer within a day instead of the 2 week slow-carbonation/aging method I have trained myself to employ and enjoy.

Cheers for the heads up on the refrigeration, Batz. I was umming and aahing about whether to chill it for days until you reported your unfortunate incident. Thanks a lot for that.

Oh, and I always bottle a few samples of each brew for posterity. I was a bit worried after the amber PET bottles looked to have nothing but coloured water in them, but there was enough active yeast left to kick carbonation off. The bottles were tight within an hour or two. Magic stuff.


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## Gloveski

What about this stuff called polyglu ?


----------



## ///

Gloveski said:


> What about this stuff called polyglu ?




What about it?


----------



## Gloveski

/// said:


> What about it?



Don't know enough on the subject but couldn't it help in floculating yeast , hop matter etc . Or am I way off the mark ?


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## bradsbrew

48hrs after kegging with biofine.
This beer is from a cube that was from a 100Lish batch that had over 1.5kg of hops 1kg of that being galaxy flowers into the whirlpool. Plus 25g keg hop.

Very impressive and coupled with pressure ferment , this is one cracking beer.

Is it knock off time yet? Bah, not even lunch time


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## mtb

What's everyone's dosage rates on Biofine? I started on the low side, 5mL per 19L, but am edging toward 10mL and am considering higher again to get that crystal clarity in a short timeframe.


----------



## Coodgee

24ml per keg for the two APAs I kegged up yesterday. I want it to be commercial-grade clear. 24ml because my syringe goes up to 12ml and I just bout a whole litre of it.


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## Andy_27

I did a Kolsch with 15ml and it didnt do much clearing at all. I just kegged a red ale yesterday and used 30ml to see how that goes.


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## Coldspace

I usually put 30 mls into my 45 ltr batches/kegmenters. Works plenty


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## mtb

Sounds like I'd better go get some bigger syringes.. Thanks chaps


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## Batz

Batz Kolsch.

Kegged only 7 hours ago, 3 days in cold conditioning then racked to secondary will 10ml of Biofine. Continued to chill for 3 more days.

Used WPL029 which has a reputation of taking a long time to clear. This is clear as you could want already and drinking very nicely thank-you.

Love this stuff, but IMO racking is necessary

Batz



.


----------



## TidalPete

Batz said:


> Batz Kolsch.
> 
> Kegged only 7 hours ago, 3 days in cold conditioning then racked to secondary will 10ml of Biofine. Continued to chill for 3 more days.
> 
> Used WPL029 which has a reputation of taking a long time to clear. This is clear as you could want already and drinking very nicely thank-you.
> 
> Love this stuff, but IMO racking is necessary
> 
> BatzView attachment 110498
> .



Oh! Give it a rest Batz. 
We've seen multiple pics of your Biofined beer but must agree with you that racking to secondary is best.
Looking forward to seeing a pic of your latest Biofined Wheatie.

PS --- *WHEN! Oh when* are we going to get our old Smileys back & give this latest Yankee rubbish the shove?


----------



## Batz

TidalPete said:


> Oh! Give it a rest Batz.
> We've seen multiple pics of your Biofined beer but must agree with you that racking to secondary is best.
> Looking forward to seeing a pic of your latest Biofined Wheatie.
> 
> PS --- *WHEN! Oh when* are we going to get our old Smileys back & give this latest Yankee rubbish the shove?



Careful of what you say here Pete. I had a few words of criticism and I have been punished.

And sorry will not mention Biofine again. Seems I'm in more trouble than Mighty Mouse lately.


----------



## TidalPete

Taking the piss re the Biofine as you well know Batz.


----------



## Batz

TidalPete said:


> Taking the piss re the Biofine as you well know Batz.



I do Pete and loving it. 
I'll PM you regards the other


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## Coldspace

It's a great product


----------



## Batz

Coldspace said:


> It's a great product


----------



## Coldspace

Batz said:


> View attachment 110507


----------



## Dan Pratt

Coodgee said:


> 24ml per keg for the two APAs I kegged up yesterday. I want it to be commercial-grade clear. 24ml because my syringe goes up to 12ml and I just bout a whole litre of it.



Where is the best priced HB store that I can get 1Lt of this Biofine you speak of?


----------



## Coodgee

got mine from hoppy days, a forum sponsor and nice fella.


----------



## Stouter

Coodgee said:


> got mine from hoppy days, a forum sponsor and nice fella.


Same here. Arrived last week, ahead of the delivery date, cheaper than anywhere else I could find, and all the way to W.A, where none of the other store options seem to carry it. Did a 15mL test into an Ale 5 days ago to get a feel for it, but haven't pour any off yet, tomorrow's the day.


----------



## Andy_27

Coodgee said:


> got mine from hoppy days, a forum sponsor and nice fella.


Got mine from Hoppy Days too. I used 10ml in my first keg and it was still pretty hazy. 30ml in the next and theyre crystal clear. I might try 20ml in the next one and see the difference.


----------



## Zorco

monkey speak no evil.... good life lesson that


----------



## fungrel

FYI this is the same ingredient, cheapest I've found it.


----------



## Coodgee

that's the bad boy


----------



## Phoney

Quick question; Do you guys use biofine in yeast forward beers such as Saisons and Hefes or will that drop out all of the desired flavours?

What about New England IPA’s that are supposed to be cloudy?


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## Black Devil Dog

I only use it in beers that I want to get really clear. Mostly lagers, kolsch's and bright ales. I don't make many saisons or hefes. You could use it in a saison, but I wouldn't use it in a hefe. Unless you were making a Krtistal, then it would be useful. If the IPA is meant to be cloudy I wouldn't use it


----------



## Matplat

Phoney said:


> or will that drop out all of the desired flavours



No, because the flavour compounds in these beers are made by the yeast, it is not the yeast themselves that give the flavour.

I have just biofined a belgian blonde, the yeast has done it's work, now I want it gone!


----------



## ///

It does not remove protein or Polyphenols which will give haze. Add a gm/l of flour to the whirlpool and you will have a sustained haze rather than creek water as many neipas are. Soz, not a fan.


----------



## Phoney

Creek water?

It's more like dirty puddle water. Tasty, tasty puddle water.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

That looks more like orange juice.


----------

