# S189 Yeast - Help



## brettprevans

Ok so this may be a dumb question but..... What is s189 yeast? who makes it. I've had a look at various threads but cant find a brand name. I want to get some but find find it listed on any of the HB websites to order it.

is it a liquid yeast and thats why its not available via mail order?


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## goatherder

It's a dry yeast made by Fermentis - the Saflager/Safale crowd. Craftbrewer sell it as "swiss lager" yeast.


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## brettprevans

goatherder said:


> It's a dry yeast made by Fermentis - the Saflager/Safale crowd. Craftbrewer sell it as "swiss lager" yeast.


Cheers.
should have also asked..what temp should it be used at. Ive got a pils kit, so use at about 10-12C?


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## goatherder

10-12C worked well when I used it. Specs and rehydration procedures are in this brochure from the manufacturer:

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SaflagerS-189.pdf


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## Ross

citymorgue2 said:


> Cheers.
> should have also asked..what temp should it be used at. Ive got a pils kit, so use at about 10-12C?



10 to 12c is perfect. All you need to know is here

cheers Ross


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## Kingy

i pitched this yeast (purchased from ross) yesterday in my first AG. Pitched at 22 degress then left the fermenter outside overnight to cool it down to 12 degrees. And it was singing this morning and singing very well.


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## T.D.

Anyone got any comments on how this yeast compares to others like W34/70 and S23? To date these are only two dry lager yeasts I have used and both have been great. How does S189 compare? What styles would it be best suited to?


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## brettprevans

what would the opinion by as whetehr to rehydrate or not? Ive read the specs and it says you can either dry pitch or rehydrate. opinions?


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## Duff

T.D. said:


> Anyone got any comments on how this yeast compares to others like W34/70 and S23? To date these are only two dry lager yeasts I have used and both have been great. How does S189 compare? What styles would it be best suited to?



Tim,

Leaves 34/70 dead IMO, but never tried S23. Ferments stronger, cleaner and with little to no sulphur. A very clean and versatlie dry yeast. I've used from Pilsner, Vienna, Maibock and now Dopplebock, all with great results. The best dried lager yeast for me :beerbang: 

Cheers.


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## T.D.

Duff said:


> Tim,
> 
> Leaves 34/70 dead IMO, but never tried S23. Ferments stronger, cleaner and with little to no sulphur. A very clean and versatlie dry yeast. I've used from Pilsner, Vienna, Maibock and now Dopplebock, all with great results. The best dried lager yeast for me :beerbang:
> 
> Cheers.



Geez, sounds pretty good! :super: 

Might have to give it a shot for my next round of lagers! :beer: 

BTW Duff, I brewed your Cascade/Simcoe Hopburst APA today. My first time using Simcoe - bloody hell that stuff smells good out of the packet!!! :chug:


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## GMK

It is a good yeast - i like it.

Kept some aside from my last Czech Pils.
Stored in th ekeg fridge at 5C with dried malt and sanitised water.
Went to reuse 4 weeks later - and it smelled distinctly of Parmesan Cheese?

No idea if it was good to use as i chucked it after smelling that ....


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## razz

GMK said:


> It is a good yeast - i like it.
> 
> Kept some aside from my last Czech Pils.
> Stored in th ekeg fridge at 5C with dried malt and sanitised water.
> Went to reuse 4 weeks later - and it smelled distinctly of Parmesan Cheese?
> 
> No idea if it was good to use as i chucked it after smelling that ....


You could have spread it on your spaghetti GMK. :lol:


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## PostModern

I'm sipping a 1.076 Baltic Porter fermented with two packs of S-189. Fermented for 3 weeks at 11C followed by a 2 day diacetyl rest at 20C then another 2 weeks at 11C and it's been in the keg since Friday. Tastes pretty damn fine right now, although I reckon another 2 weeks cold will smooth it out even more.


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## Rysa

Have used a few of these myself, seem pretty darn good from what i can tell. 
Haven't been brewing all that long but just purchased another 6 packs today!!!

Cheers Ross!


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## AndrewQLD

Yeah, I have to say I am pretty impressed with this yeast as well, definately ferments cleaner and dryer than 34/70 and I thought that was pretty good for a dry lager yeast. Also seems to drop pretty clear as well.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Batz

AndrewQLD said:


> Yeah, I have to say I am pretty impressed with this yeast as well, definately ferments cleaner and dryer than 34/70 and I thought that was pretty good for a dry lager yeast. Also seems to drop pretty clear as well.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



I am also pleased with the results from this yeast,plan on brewing a very clean pils this week to really check it out.

Batz


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## bonj

Good to know. I've got 2 pilsners with S189 in the fridge at the moment.


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## blackbock

It works nicely in a Helles as well.


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## razz

My first batch using S-189 is down to 75% attenuation, is it likely to go any further? Fermentis website says medium attenuation. OG 51, now at 13. AG recipe mashed at 66 degrees.


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## blackbock

Not much.


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## goatherder

Probably not too much further - the two beers I made with S-189 were 76% and 69%, both mashed at 67.


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## Kingy

blackbock said:


> It works nicely in a Helles as well.



i hope so i just dumped it on my whitelabs yeast that was out of date and didnt start fermenting my helles.

Note to self: dont buy yeast at a cheaper price because its a few days out of date.

done it once and never again. hmmm probly shouldve made a starter with it. :blink:


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## DJR

Kingy said:


> i hope so i just dumped it on my whitelabs yeast that was out of date and didnt start fermenting my helles.
> 
> Note to self: dont buy yeast at a cheaper price because its a few days out of date.
> 
> done it once and never again. hmmm probly shouldve made a starter with it. :blink:



I ALWAYS make a starter even with a fresh vial. It just ends up being better beer without the lag time of pitching a normal tube. Plus i get to decant some of the active yeast into another starter that i can save into vials for later

Mind you a couple of days wouldn't really cause too many issues, however pitching one of the "pitchable" yeasts into a lager at even ale-ish temps (15-16C) never worked for me anyway, so now it's starters all the way


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## brettprevans

ok so Ive got my s189 from Ross (thx btw). It comes as 2 packs joined together (2x12g). But I dont know wheather to use 1 or both packs. 

receipe below (which has been borrowed off a AHB member)

Pils
Morgans Golden Saaz 
1 kg of dextrose 
S189 Yeast.
BPrimary for 2 weeks - rack and dry hop with 25gms of Saaz pellets for 4 weeks.

thoughts (and any comments on reciepe)?


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## Kingy

id just use 1 and rehydrate it. 
probably use 1kg ldme and 4-500 grams of dex. Thats just my opinion.

cheers kingy


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## Duff

1 pack is fine.


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## T.D.

Duff said:


> 1 pack is fine.



What if you pitch at lager temps Duff? I'll be using some of this stuff for my next round of lagers, and will be pitching at 10-12deg. I was going to pitch two packs...


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## brettprevans

T.D. said:


> What if you pitch at lager temps Duff? I'll be using some of this stuff for my next round of lagers, and will be pitching at 10-12deg. I was going to pitch two packs...


I was planning on brewing at 10-12C also. Last pils I made I used 2xSaflagar cause it was going to sit around 10C (it took 3 weeks (inc 3 day diadatic rest) to go from around 1.040 to to 1.012).

But at $10 (incl postage) if I dont have to use 2 packs I would prefer to save it
And yes my spelling sux.


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## Duff

T.D. said:


> What if you pitch at lager temps Duff? I'll be using some of this stuff for my next round of lagers, and will be pitching at 10-12deg. I was going to pitch two packs...



Tim,

For my Vienna and current Pilsners brewing, I pitch dry at ambient temps until I see the first sign of activity (quite fast with 189), then reduce to fermenting temps. If you want to pitch at fermenting temps then I would definately pitch as a starter or rehydrated at the very least.

Cheers.


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## Ross

T.D. said:


> What if you pitch at lager temps Duff? I'll be using some of this stuff for my next round of lagers, and will be pitching at 10-12deg. I was going to pitch two packs...



I always pitch 2 as I pitch cold. If adding just one I'd be rehydrating first & kicking it off with a little wort.
If adding warm & then chilling, 1 is quite adequate just sprinkled in.

cheers Ross


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## boingk

I always rehydrate my yeasts, almost to the extent of making a miniature starter out of them. I use honey or some leftover liquid malt extract to start them, or failing all else - white sugar. 1/3 glass of water and 3g sucrose/LLME/honey seems to do the trick nicely when left for a day or less prior to the brew.

I think that if you know when you're brewing you should try and plan ahead and rehydrate - it makes for a much quicker start to fermentation if nothing else. Even doing it while you boil/sanitise makes a difference.


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## T.D.

Duff said:


> Tim,
> 
> For my Vienna and current Pilsners brewing, I pitch dry at ambient temps until I see the first sign of activity (quite fast with 189), then reduce to fermenting temps. If you want to pitch at fermenting temps then I would definately pitch as a starter or rehydrated at the very least.
> 
> Cheers.



Thanks Duff. I need to pitch at fermentation temps because my little wine fridge doesn't have enough grunt to get the temp down once fermentation starts!


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## Kingy

i usually pitch around 20 degrees in the afternoon with this yeast then itll cool overnight to 12 degrees in the shed and by morning its bubblibg away. This is one of my favorite yeasts.


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## joecast

citymorgue2 said:


> ok so Ive got my s189 from Ross (thx btw). It comes as 2 packs joined together (2x12g). But I dont know wheather to use 1 or both packs.
> 
> receipe below (which has been borrowed off a AHB member)
> 
> Pils
> Morgans Golden Saaz
> 1 kg of dextrose
> S189 Yeast.
> BPrimary for 2 weeks - rack and dry hop with 25gms of Saaz pellets for 4 weeks.
> 
> thoughts (and any comments on reciepe)?




interested to hear how this one turns out. 

used the s189 on a morgans saaz as well. added 500g dextrose and 500g light dry extract. 
re hydrated half the yeast, then pitched the other half on top. most yeast i've ever used on one batch. :beerbang: pitched at about 22C. cooling down now and looks like it already started bubbling.


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## Bobby

I used 1 packet (rehydrated) on a Schwartz beer fermented at 12 for 3 weeks then i dropped the temp to 1 for 2 weeks. Turned out great.

A very good yeast, no hassle, great results.


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## Steve

I put down a german pilsener on Friday with S189. Its in the fridge at 10 degrees and doing absolutely nothing. Very unusual. The yeast has formed 10 or so clumps which look like fluffy cold break about 1-2 cms wide just sitting on top of the wort. Might have to pitch another. First time this yeast hasnt fired. Im a bit perplexed to be honest as its my favourite lager yeast and have had great results.
Cheers
Steve


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## razz

I've had that yeast clump that way Steve, it will fire eventually. I usually pitch double for a bottom fermenter.


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## matti

Aerate and
Raise the temp to 12!


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## Steve

Cheers guys...will take it out of the fridge for the day and give it a whisk.
Steve


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## Ross

Steve said:


> I put down a german pilsener on Friday with S189. Its in the fridge at 10 degrees and doing absolutely nothing. Very unusual. The yeast has formed 10 or so clumps which look like fluffy cold break about 1-2 cms wide just sitting on top of the wort. Might have to pitch another. First time this yeast hasnt fired. Im a bit perplexed to be honest as its my favourite lager yeast and have had great results.
> Cheers
> Steve



Steve,

Leave well alone, it'll be at full krausen by tomorrow, don't go lifting the temp when it's so close.
If pitching cold, you should really pitch both packets (assuming you're not?), which is the way I do it.
If pitching warm, 1 is ample, but I prefer to pitch cool & reuse the trub to get better value, rather than pitching warm.

cheers Ross


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## Steve

Ross said:


> Steve,
> 
> Leave well alone, it'll be at full krausen by tomorrow, don't go lifting the temp when it's so close.
> If pitching cold, you should really pitch both packets (assuming you're not?), which is the way I do it.
> If pitching warm, 1 is ample, but I prefer to pitch cool & reuse the trub to get better value, rather than pitching warm.
> 
> cheers Ross




oops already given it a whisk with sterilised fork. I pitched warm (as usual). Its normally firing over night hence my perplexion (new word?). Will chuck her back in the fridge and see what happens.
Cheers Ross
Steve


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## Steve

Still no action...nothing on the surface at all, just crystal clear wort....very odd! Will have to do a quick run around the corner to my LHBS and let him know he sold me a dud.
Cheers
Steve


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## SJW

> Still no action...nothing on the surface at all, just crystal clear wort....very odd! Will have to do a quick run around the corner to my LHBS and let him know he sold me a dud.
> Cheers
> Steve


How well did you airate Steve. The best $15 I spent was at K-mart when I got an aquarium air pump and stone. It made a hell of a diff. Saying that you may of done that? :blink: 
The only problem I have had with dry yeast was a 34/70 that would not disolve. It just stayed in those little balls. I suspect that there was a problem in production or storage?
I have found that without using an airstone there is a very fine line as too whether or not the wort is adequatly airated or not.
Good Luck  

Steve


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## Jye

Steve did you hydrate the yeast before pitching? this will ensure you pitch a greater number of healthy yeast. Either way it is very strange that nothing happened.


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## Steve

Nope I dont hyrdate and havent been airating my last 5-6 AG no chills. Not to worry - will chuck another in tomorrow after ive hydrated it with some wort.
Cheers
Steve


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## Jye

Steve always hydrate with boiled and cooled water (30C). This allows the yeast walls to rebuild and limit what passes through them. Hydrating in wort causes unwanted 'stuff' to pass through the cell walls until properly hydrated.


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## Steve

Jye said:


> Steve always hydrate with boiled and cooled water (30C). This allows the yeast walls to rebuild and limit what passes through them. Hydrating in wort causes unwanted 'stuff' to pass through the cell walls until properly hydrated.




:blink: Ask two different brewers, get two different answers. Thanks Jye but I was advised to hydrate in wort about an hour ago by another reputable brewer from around your neck 'o the woods.
Cheers
Steve


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## Ross

Steve said:


> :blink: Ask two different brewers, get two different answers. Thanks Jye but I was advised to hydrate in wort about an hour ago by another reputable brewer from around your neck 'o the woods.
> Cheers
> Steve



Hi Steve - not hydrate in wort - hydrate in water. Then add a little wort to it to make sure its firing & good.
If the last packet was duff, there's a high chance the next packet will be from the same batch, so best to check it first.

cheers Ross


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## Steve

Ross said:


> Hi Steve - not hydrate in wort - hydrate in water. Then add a little wort to it to make sure its firing & good.
> If the last packet was duff, there's a high chance the next packet will be from the same batch, so best to check it first.
> 
> cheers Ross




 righto!


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## matti

Here a link to a grumpys thread and my version of grumpys instructions.Yeast hydration linkI third that.

There's a few post and links why it is so that you must rehydrate dry yeast and ONLY with water.

Any one saying to hydrate it with wort has got it wrong.
I used to believe it too as but got wiser.

matti


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## bindi

Ok, the first time with S 189 yeast [from where else, Ross ^_^ ] Rehydrate in cooled boiled water, 20g in 200 ml, pitch after 25 min when well stirred and looks like cream into 18c wort, Steves Nelsons Lager [all pilsner and Nelson Sauvin] , going down to 10c in the fermenting fridge.
Not my usual style and it's been awhile since I have done a Lager.  I make lagers for mates, but this one is for me. 

The reason I posted here is I remember the reading the posts in above posts link. same as above on pitching yeasts.


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## warrenlw63

Just digging this one up again.

Tried this yeast for the first time yesterday and I reckon it's a ripper.  

Rehydrated it as per the instructions at 12 noon yesterday. Pitched 2 packs at 16 degrees to 45 litres of wort and dropped the fridge temp to 11 overnight.
Already blowing its boots off as at 9am today. B) 

I'm impressed. Even with good liquid starters it takes me around 24 hours to get some decent activity. 

Warren -


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## crozdog

I dumped a single pack of this yeast onto a dark lager on Saturday - no rehydration just straight in onto a well aerated room temp wort then stirred it in. Transferred the fermenter to the fridge which is on 9-10 degrees internal air temp. As yet there has been no activity - this is the 1st time I've used this yeast. 

Does this yeast generate much of a krausen? Should I rehydrate the other pack & pitch it tonight or wait another day or 2?


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## warrenlw63

Crozdog I rehydrated as per the instructions and pitched it at 16 degrees, then dropped the t/stat to 11 degrees. I got visible signs of fermentation within hours (positive airlock pressure).

Doesn't throw a particularly big krausen at all. You say you pitched it room temp? Exactly how high? A combination of that and dropping the fermenter temp too quickly may have cold shocked it perhaps? Not sure if dried yeast can suffer this fate as readily as liquid but it's a possibility.

Should fire up sooner or more possibly later, give it time.

Warren -


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## crozdog

Thanks Warren. 

I was curious re the krausen cause it's a sure sign ferment is underway. When I pitched the ambient room temp would have been about 22 with the wort at about 20. i would have thought it would have taken some time to drop 19l of wort from 20 - 10ish. Dunno about the cold shock, I've used the same technique with pitching liquid lager starters before with no issue.

I'll keep an eye on it before rehydrating and adding more.


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## Lukes

I have had great results with this yeast last winter.
From what I have read here I understand this strain is quite clean at higher temps.
My question is how high a temp have you fermented at?

Regards,
Luke


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## Lukes

Bump:
Anyone brewed @ 15 with this and had a clean finish?
Cheers,
Luke :beerbang:


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## warrenlw63

Hey sorry Luke just noticed this one.

Yep, my CAP wound up around 15-16 during the recent heatwave (though seems like a distant melbourne memory now brrrr :blink: ) and was as clean as the provebial.

One thing I must stress is that I pitched around 9 degrees though.  

Warren -


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## therook

Lukes said:


> Bump:
> Anyone brewed @ 15 with this and had a clean finish?
> Cheers,
> Luke :beerbang:



Lukes

I know Wazza brewed with this over Summer in a CAP beer and had trouble with the temps and take it from me it was a really nice drink.

If he doesn't see this thread shoot him a PM or email

Rook

Beat me by that much Wazza


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## Lukes

Thanks Guy's,
Look's like I wont be waiting till the queens b/day weekend to start lagering...
Be snowing at home soon at this rate anyway.
Rehydrate as per specs, pitch cold and sit it on the cold concrete floor for a couple of weeks is the plan.

:icon_cheers: 

Luke


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## warrenlw63

therook said:


> Beat me by that much Wazza



Provebial bee's PhAT huh? ^_^ 

Warren -


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## geoffi

Lukes said:


> Bump:
> Anyone brewed @ 15 with this and had a clean finish?
> Cheers,
> Luke :beerbang:




I brewed a Schwartzbier with this at about 21c. Wasn't my idea, I just had to go away unexpectedly, and as my 'temperature control' involves adding frozen bottles to a broken-down old freezer, things went awry.

Anyway, when I got home it was going off like a machine gun. I tried to get the temp down, but it brewed out before I could do much. I lagered it for a couple of weeks.

And it was bloody beautiful. Maybe not quite as crisp as it might have been, but no weird, out-of-place fruitiness at all.

I'm not suggesting 21c to anyone, but I'm planning to use this in the next few months at ambient temps, which will vary between 12-16 or so.


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## Lukes

Thank's
Planning on a pretty meaty Kiwi hop steam beer and to give 2112 and n/brewer a miss this year 
It wont be that delicate and need to be pills crisp.
Just don't want major esters and butter.

- Luke


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## Fents

Now you all have me scared. My case swap is sitting outside in the cold at home. pitched 15g's of this to 38litres on sunday. how cold is too cold? could get down to around <10c at nghts in melb.? should i move it inside which sits at about 18c?


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## razz

I use it at 12 degrees fents and it's done in a week, if it gets to 8-10 should be no probs.


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## Fents

Legend Razz just what i wanted to hear.


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## warrenlw63

Lukes said:


> Thank's
> Planning on a pretty meaty Kiwi hop steam beer



What sort of meat are you using Luke?  

BTW I also used this yeast in a stout at lager temps. Not too shabby at all.

It could readily usurp US-05 in my brewery.

Warren -


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## clay

Just wondering how much of this yeast are you guys pitching for the various temps. Would I get away with one sachet at lager temps?


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## razz

clay said:


> Just wondering how much of this yeast are you guys pitching for the various temps. Would I get away with one sachet at lager temps?


I use 2 x 12grams.


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## geoffi

Fents said:


> Now you all have me scared. My case swap is sitting outside in the cold at home. pitched 15g's of this to 38litres on sunday. how cold is too cold? could get down to around <10c at nghts in melb.? should i move it inside which sits at about 18c?



I should have added that I've also used it at 10-12c for the same beer. Lagered three weeks at about 5c. Turned out great. Just a little crisper than the warm ferment version.


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## Ross

Local brewer up here brews nearly all czech pilsners. Ferments them all at 20c with the "Swiss lager" In the keg within a week & no signs of fruitiness.

Personally I'd prefer to ferment cooler, but this yeast could well be the answer for guys wanting to brew lagers without fermentation fridges.

cheers Ross


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## brettprevans

ive used craftbrewer's s189 (swiss yeast) at cold lager ferments and it came out aces! nice and clean. actualy I used it last in my brown bavarian mongrel lager. i would recomend the yeast.


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## Fents

huhu, wonder if the guys in the vic case swap would like to be guinea pigs for that 20 degree experiment ross.


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## bonj

Fents said:


> Now you all have me scared. My case swap is sitting outside in the cold at home. pitched 15g's of this to 38litres on sunday. how cold is too cold? could get down to around <10c at nghts in melb.? should i move it inside which sits at about 18c?


I have only used S189 at 8 degrees and it's been great.


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## devo

I've used this yeast twice now for lagers but would have to say I'm not a fan. Not sure what it is possibly a little neutral for my liking?! I'd much prefer something like a wyeast 1224 or 2000.


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## Hutch

devo said:


> I've used this yeast twice now for lagers but would have to say I'm not a fan. Not sure what it is possibly a little neutral for my liking?! I'd much prefer something like a wyeast 1224 or 2000.


I would agree that it is quite clean and neutral, which is not necessarily a bad thing fort certain styles, IMHO. 
I did a split batch Bav Lager (12deg), the other half getting Wyeast 2206. Side by side they were almost identical (2206 was fractionally better, though took twice as long to ferment out).
I would happily recommend this yeast for nice clean lagers.


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## warrenlw63

Hey guys mildly but not totally worried yet.

Tried cold pitching this yesterday. Rehydrated as per instructions and pitched at 11 degrees. 24 hours later at 11 degrees and not a lot of action?? 

I've had liquid lager starters take up to 36 hours at these temps.

Scary stuff though. I'd like to see some form of airlock activity soon.  

Anybody have experience with cold pitching this stuff?

FWIW I used two packets rehydrated in 45 litres.

Warren -


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## SJW

S-189 is my yeast od choice for all Lagers both dark and light. I have never fermented this one warm but find it's all over and in the keg within 7 days even fermenting at 10 deg C with 24 hours rest at 18. It's great stuff. It may lack at little something compared with some of the liquid yeasts but 2 packs if I am pitching at 12 or just one if its a bit warmer as I only chill to 30 or 40 now and put in the fridge till pitching temps are hit.

Steve


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## warrenlw63

Thanks Steve, think I've just got to sit tight and be patient. Last time I used this stuff I pitched at 16 degrees and had pretty quick activity.

Lagers frustrate me. :lol: 

Warren -


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## SpillsMostOfIt

I pitched two (rehydrated) packs of this yeast into my second ever lager last Friday at around 10degC. Sometime on Sunday, it looked like it was working and it is now off and running/limping at around 11degC. It was a bit scary for a while, though.


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## warrenlw63

Cheers Spills

My guess is that 2 x 12g packs of this stuff pitched into 45 litres at 11 degrees is probably just a fair amount of underpitching on my part.

Looks like I'll be drumming my fingers in wait for a while yet.  

Warren -


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## geoffi

I've only ever pitched a single sachet of this, rehydrated of course, normally at around 20c, then I start bringing down the temp straight away. It always kicks off quickly for me.


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## SJW

> My guess is that 2 x 12g packs of this stuff pitched into 45 litres at 11 degrees is probably just a fair amount of underpitching on my part.



Hard to say. I know that I have pitched 12g into 24 litres at 12 or 12 and its slow to take off, but still comes out fine in the end. For some reason this yeast does take off quicker if u rehydrate. I was never an advocate for re-hydrating until I used this yeast.

Steve


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## SJW

> I've only ever pitched a single sachet of this, rehydrated of course, normally at around 20c, then I start bringing down the temp straight away. It always kicks off quickly for me.



Thats the safe way I guess. Even pitching at 20 if u can get it down to 10 or 12 within 24 hours it will be fine.

Steve


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## bconnery

A simple guideline for dried lager yeasts in general is 1 pack if pitching warm and 2 packs if cold, for a 23L or so batch. 

So yes, 2 packs pitched into 45L cold would be underpitching. 

I've used both methods with s189 with good results. The beers were different so I can't say that one was better than the other. 
I'll probably stick with pitching 2 packs but it is hard to say...


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## SpillsMostOfIt

warrenlw63 said:


> Cheers Spills
> 
> My guess is that 2 x 12g packs of this stuff pitched into 45 litres at 11 degrees is probably just a fair amount of underpitching on my part.
> 
> Looks like I'll be drumming my fingers in wait for a while yet.
> 
> Warren -



Indeed. I probably overpitched. MrMalty suggested that for my batch size, somewhere between one and two packs would work, but I decided to go over because I was feeling particularly paranoid. Yours probably have a bit more sex to get through than mine did...


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## Ross

Yes, well under pitched Warren - I'd have been warm pitching at those numbers.
I wouldn't be panicing though, she'll fire....

cheers Ross


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## warrenlw63

Ross said:


> Yes, well under pitched Warren - I'd have been warm pitching at those numbers.
> I wouldn't be panicing though, she'll fire....
> 
> cheers Ross



:lol: Yes Ross, Nottingham she ain't... I'd be almost racking it to the kegs after 24 hours.

Yeah as said. Even with good liquid starters I've experienced long and longer lag times. As much as I enjoy the flavour lagers shit me in some ways! B) 

Warren -


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## devo

Didi you say that you prepped a starter??

I've only ever pitched this yeast as a warm 2ltr starter and never at a temp off 10c so it's never been an issue of delayed activity for me. Only case I find it happens is when I've gone the cheap arse approach and purchased out of date, less viable liquid cultures.


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## ozpowell

A related question for those who pitch this yeast cold - what's your rehydration process? Everything I've read about rehydration says that it should be done with luke-warm water, so:

1. Do you rehydrate around 24oC, drop the rehydrated yeast to 10 or 12oC, then pitch. Or...
2. Do you rehydrate around 24 and immediately pitch into the cooler wort (I would imagine this would risk thermal shock, right)? 

If you use option 1, how quickly do you drop the temperature of the rehydrated yeast before pitching?

Thanks.


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## warrenlw63

devo said:


> Didi you say that you prepped a starter??
> 
> I've only ever pitched this yeast as a warm 2ltr starter and never at a temp off 10c so it's never been an issue of delayed activity for me. Only case I find it happens is when I've gone the cheap arse approach and purchased out of date, less viable liquid cultures.




Nah mate no starter. I just rehydrated as per the instructions. Dropped the contents into 300ml of cooled, boiled water and left it for 20 mins, then gave it a good stir for around 10 mins to mix it all up and then dumped it into the wort.

Edit: Ozpowell I didn't take the temp of the cooled/boiled water, most certainly not too hot because the 300ml had been forced cooled and refrigerated for 45 minutes. My guess off the top of my head is the water temp would have been around 15 degrees.

Warren -


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## dicko

warrenlw63 said:


> Hey guys mildly but not totally worried yet.
> 
> Tried cold pitching this yesterday. Rehydrated as per instructions and pitched at 11 degrees. 24 hours later at 11 degrees and not a lot of action??
> 
> I've had liquid lager starters take up to 36 hours at these temps.
> 
> Scary stuff though. I'd like to see some form of airlock activity soon.
> 
> Anybody have experience with cold pitching this stuff?
> 
> FWIW I used two packets rehydrated in 45 litres.
> 
> Warren -



Hi Warren,

I tried this yeast as an experiment with 2 packs of 11grams in 23 litres and it had fired up overnite.
I will use 50gramms in my 46 litre brews as it does state that the pitching rate should be hgher for this yeast.
You may have been a little lite on with the pitching rate if you used only 22gramms.
I would just sit tight and see how it goes, I believe as long as sanitation is spot on an extended lag time may not cause any real probs if the yeast can multiply and do its job.
BTW I ALLWAYS use a yeast nutrient with lager yeasts as I like to pitch them cold.

Cheers


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## therook

The only 3 times i have used it has been sprinkled on top and pitched at 10c and it has always fired up within 12 hrs ( 2 packets - 23 litres )

Rook


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## warrenlw63

therook said:


> The only 3 times i have used it has been sprinkled on top and pitched at 10c and it has always fired up within 12 hrs ( 2 packets - 23 litres )
> 
> Rook



Sprinkled? You manly thing. I betcha you just chucked it.  

Warren -


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## samhighley

I'm currently brewing two lagers in the same fridge at 12 degrees, which were both pitched with yeast on 1 June.

Both had OG's of 1.050, and the pitching temp of both was 12 degrees. Both yeasts were hydrated to cream at around 20 degrees.

The first (blonde) was pitched with a single pack of W34/70.

The second (lager) was pitched with a single pack of CB Swiss (S-189).

The lager (with 189) was going off like a cracker by the next day (2 June) and as of today (10 June) is sitting around 1.016.

The blonde (with W34) started very slowly, with no positive airlock pressure or krausen until at least around 6 June, and is currently sitting at 1.042.

I know which yeast I prefer 

Sam


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## SJW

> I'm currently brewing two lagers in the same fridge at 12 degrees, which were both pitched with yeast on 1 June.
> 
> Both had OG's of 1.050, and the pitching temp of both was 12 degrees. Both yeasts were hydrated to cream at around 20 degrees.
> 
> The first (blonde) was pitched with a single pack of W34/70.
> 
> The second (lager) was pitched with a single pack of CB Swiss (S-189).
> 
> The lager (with 189) was going off like a cracker by the next day (2 June) and as of today (10 June) is sitting around 1.016.
> 
> The blonde (with W34) started very slowly, with no positive airlock pressure or krausen until at least around 6 June, and is currently sitting at 1.042.
> 
> I know which yeast I prefer
> 
> Sam



Sounds pretty normal to me. Thats why S-189 is my dry yeast of choice


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## T.D.

I dunno, 5-6 days for any lager yeast to fire seems awfully abnormal to me! My bet is something would have been wrong with that W34/70 sachet. I guess that's the flaw with any of these kinds of comparisons - its hard to know whether that particular sachet was exposed to heat or something during its transit from factory to customer. I have never had any yeast take 6 days to fire.


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## SJW

> I dunno, 5-6 days for any lager yeast to fire seems awfully abnormal to me! My bet is something would have been wrong with that W34/70 sachet.


Thats what I mean. On more than one occasion I had this problem, I hate w34/70 and will never use it again.


Steve


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## Steve

SJW said:


> Thats what I mean. On more than one occasion I had this problem, I hate w34/70 and will never use it again.
> 
> 
> Steve




S189! Bloody lager yeasts! Did a german pilsner. 10 bloody days (feels like weeks) and the points are still dropping.....Id be drinking it by now if it was an ale! I have one in the garage at 10-12 and one in the laundry at 15-18. Its like watching bloody grass grow! Even worse when im all out of HB (AGAIN!). I've even resorted to drinking quarter of me can of Melbourne and topping it up with my fermenting pilsner  Sad eh?
Cheers
Steve


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## joecast

Steve said:


> Even worse when im all out of HB (AGAIN!). I've even resorted to drinking quarter of me can of Melbourne and topping it up with my fermenting pilsner  Sad eh?
> Cheers
> Steve


think i've got the solution to your problem steve:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=23699&st=0
no need to thank me now, but in five or six weeks you'll reap the benefits :lol: :lol: 
joe


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## Steve

joecast said:


> think i've got the solution to your problem steve:
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=23699&st=0
> no need to thank me now, but in five or six weeks you'll reap the benefits :lol: :lol:
> joe




:lol: buckleys chance of that nonsense happening round this neck o the woods mate! :lol:


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## therook

I got sick of making starters and stepping up when using liquids so decided to try this yeast.
Made a CAP and then dumped a Pilsner onto the yeast cake and yesterday dumped a Schwarzbier onto the Pilsner yeast cake.
if the Cap and Pilsner tastes as good as it was going into the kegs yesterday i may never go near liquid again :icon_cheers: 

Rook


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## Bribie G

I often keep sludge from "dry" yeasts, i.e. US-05 and S-189. That's often cited as being cheap-arse as dried yeasts are so cheap. However with liquid yeasts currently sub-$10 and dried yeasts around $5 I wouldn't say they are all _that _cheap and certainly worth running on for a few brews.

Nice necro Rook - didn't notice :lol:


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## SnakeDoctor

Anyone had any luck buying a 500g pack from overseas lately? Some sites had them for as little as $65


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## dicko

Or you may choose to buy one in Aus from one of our sponsors.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=842


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## Florian

Virtually impossible.

You can get it delivered from Germany for pretty much the same price as Craftbrewer sells it, so no point.

Canada won't ship, and no luck in the US.


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## SnakeDoctor

dicko said:


> Or you may choose to buy one in Aus from one of our sponsors.
> 
> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=842


 I currently buy many of them from one of our sponsors, I was just a bit surprised to see the price down so low from Canada / USA - I'm guessing the sponsor themselves wishes they could buy it that cheap too.


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## Goose

I also purchase the 12g packets from Craftbrewer.

I did consider an overseas purchase, but the S-189 yeast ships from the manufacturer in 500g packs only. Clearly targetted at commercial brewery markets, not the homebrewer. 

The added value in Craftbrewer's service is in the breakbulk and repackaging. I just hope they use an aseptic technique in the repackaging process.... :mellow: but not had a problem so far.


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## hoppinmad

Will have a full yeast cake of S-189 available on the weekend and was considering using it for an American pale ale-esque style beer. Just simple ale malt, bit of crystal with cascade, galaxy and nelson. Fermented low to avoid esters. Anyone tried something similar with this yeast with good results?


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## Hangover68

Another necro post but i just used some s-189 with a coopers euro lager and pitched the yeast at 20c, label said 9-22 but ideal was 15-20. No action after 24hrs so wondering if i should move the fermenter outisde as its currently 16c in my laundry - could move it to the shed if i make some space.


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## GABBA110360

it is a lager yeast so depending on the temp for pitching rate if on the cold side at least twice ale pitching rate
give it time


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## Hangover68

GABBA110360 said:


> it is a lager yeast so depending on the temp for pitching rate if on the cold side at least twice ale pitching rate
> give it time



thanks, i assumed as much but thought i should check. I just ordered an Ikegger 4l keg and tap and once its ready i will be kegging some it


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## Hangover68

Got home last night and i see movement in the airlock  which is reassuring.


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## Hangover68

So its coming up to 3 weeks now and still not finished which i sort expect for this time of year, strangely on the weekend it was quite warm and i noticed a bit more lively action in the airlock than usual as the temp was up to 20c.
Back to normal winter weather and its slowed down again, SG was still high when i checked on the weekend.


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## Lionman

Hangover68 said:


> So its coming up to 3 weeks now and still not finished which i sort expect for this time of year, strangely on the weekend it was quite warm and i noticed a bit more lively action in the airlock than usual as the temp was up to 20c.
> Back to normal winter weather and its slowed down again, SG was still high when i checked on the weekend.



How are you judging it as finished or not?

Bubbles in the air lock does not mean there is any yeast activity. The airlock can bubble for a multitude of reasons. The only way to know if its fermenting or not is to check the SG. If the SG hasnt moved in 2 or 3 days then call it FG.

You mentioned SG is high, how high?


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## yankinoz

Fermentis recommends it for malty lagers. I've used it (as Ross's Swiss Lager Yeast) in an Oktoberfest, an old Czech medium dark lager clone and in a dunkel and loved it. Prefer it over 34/70 for that purpose, but 34/70 is much more widely used in pilsners.

For 23L at OG @ 1.050 I pitch 2 x 189 at 10 and slowly raise to 13, then to 18 after active fermentation finishes.


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## Hangover68

Lionman said:


> How are you judging it as finished or not?
> 
> Bubbles in the air lock does not mean there is any yeast activity. The airlock can bubble for a multitude of reasons. The only way to know if its fermenting or not is to check the SG. If the SG hasnt moved in 2 or 3 days then call it FG.
> 
> You mentioned SG is high, how high?



1.010 for a couple days but i left it for a weekend , all bottled/kegged now.


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## Funk then Funk1

I've got a pretty simple lager fermenting at the moment with S189, what are peoples thoughts on lagering using this yeast? It's been fermenting at 18deg.


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## homebrewnewb

you will enjoy it when it drops crystal clear, will take a few weeks from my experience. Did a Maibock with it and it was excellent.


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