# Australian Amateur Brewing Championship



## Stagger

Australian Amateur Brewing Championship 
Olims Hotel, Canberra, 23-24th October 2009
Packages for Interstate Judges, Stewards and Visitors 


Dear fellow brewer and beer lover, 24 June 2009

The organising committee of AABC09 is pleased to announce details of accommodation packages for interstate judges and stewards, and other visitors. The committee is aware that the national competition will benefit from a strong interstate presence and a major part of our sponsorship effort has been directed toward making the event both attractive and affordable for guests from all over Australia.

The committee has put together two packages: Package Alpha for invited judges and stewards, and Package Beta for all other visitors. Both packages cover accommodation, brewery tours, and the Awards Dinner/Club Night. 

Accommodation will be at the competition venue, Olims Hotel, in the Deluxe Loft suites. These are well-appointed and salubrious split-level rooms featuring a double bed on the mezzanine level and two single beds on the lower level; see http://www.olimshotel.com.au/Content_Commo...canberra-01.seo. They are spacious suites intended for multiple occupancy and will comfortably accommodate three people per room. Preferred sharing arrangements may be indicated by visitors at the time of booking and will be taken into account in allocating rooms, subject to the need to keep occupancy at three per room. Also note that this package is being administered by the organising committee, so please do not contact Olims directly. 

Meals: both packages include the Awards Dinner/Club Night on Saturday night. For judges and stewards (Package Alpha only), lunches will be provided following the judging sessions on Friday and Saturday. Breakfast and other refreshments are not included for either package.

Other activities included are tours of Zierholz Brewery on Friday afternoon in conjunction with a visit to Plonk, Canberras imported and craft beer specialist, this includes bus travel. The Wig & Pen pub brewery tour will be held on Saturday afternoon after judging. Tours include tastings at each venues. 

Pricing
Thanks to our generous sponsors, Package Alpha is only $100 for two nights accommodation (Friday, Saturday) or $150 for three nights accommodation, for those wishing to arrive in Canberra on Thursday. Given that one nights accommodation at Olims is normally $175 these prices represent incredible value for money.

Package Beta is $150 for two nights and $200 for three nights. While we are unable to subsidise visitors to the same extent as judges and stewards, this is still a great deal!

Were looking forward to an excellent competition and hope you can join us in Canberra later this year. 

Sincerely,

Craig Webber, President, 
Canberra Brewers Club
[email protected], 0409 906 544


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## Stagger

A number of brewers have ask if we have arranged anything on the Thursday night, if we get enough interest I will gladly arrange something.

Please PM with your accommodation needs or any questions you might have.

Craig


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## floppinab

That looks like a fantastic deal Stagger, going to make it very hard to miss. 

Have you put out a call for judges yet, or when are you likely to????


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## Stagger

Judges and stewards will be selected by our chief judge at a later date, if you would like to judge please indicate when booking accommodation with me via PM.

I am looking forward to CLUB night, should be a big night.


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## Stagger

The Canberra brewers are happy to announce that the first prize on club night will be a new kegerator. Club night will be judged by three judges and the best beer will be announced the winner on the night. The kegerator includes a 2 tap font and lots of other goodies, we have a great night planned so come along and bring your best beers.


Craig


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## GMK

On the Thursday Night - easy - just organise a Canberra Brewers meeting at the German Harmione Club ...

Should be a great night... :icon_cheers:


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## Stagger

I would like to thank the following sponsors for there continued support of the Australian Amateur Brewing Championships.

Murrays
Grain & Grape
Craft Brewer
BYOAH 
Coopers 
Wig & Pen
Brewery Zierholz
Cryer Malt
Bintani
Olims Hotel
Tap House
Mashematics
Canberra Brewers Club


Without your support these type of events could not continue.


Craig


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## Greg Lee

Hi Craig,

what would be the cost of the Friday and Saturday day/night functions and tours etc. for those interstaters who dont need accomodation? (I've got family there, so I would stay with them)

Thanks and Cheers,
Greg


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## Thirsty Boy

No meads and ciders this year??

Well, none in Vicbrew anyway -- so no chance to qualify for AABC even if they are in the Nationals.

Just as I am starting to get into cider making too... dammit.


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## Stagger

Grego from SA said:


> Hi Craig,
> 
> what would be the cost of the Friday and Saturday day/night functions and tours etc. for those interstaters who dont need accomodation? (I've got family there, so I would stay with them)
> 
> Thanks and Cheers,
> Greg




The cost of the Club night would $30- this includes dinner and beer from around Australia (Hopefully) 

The brewery tours will cost $30- Friday is a bus trip to Zierholz and Saturday is a gentle walk to the Wig and Pen.


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## Stagger

Thanks for the overwhelming response to the Canberra brewers invite for the AABC for 2009, you should have received you payment package via email today. If you have not received your payment package please PM me your details and I will look into it. Now for the important bit, we need commitment from brewers to bring beer to the club night, if you are planning to bring a keg or two, please PM me so I can keep a running tally.

Thanks again

Craig


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## brendanos

Flights booked - Canberra here I come!

Arriving Thursday night so unfortunately will miss out on any pre-AABC shenanigans. I can't wait to finally visit the Wig & Pen - has anyone proposed to Richard that he can put on a lambic, randall, RIS, or otherwise special brew for the occasion?

Only thing left to do is figure out which costume to pack and which beers to bring....


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## jayse

I am still looking into the logistics of getting some beer there so can't confirm anything quite yet.

I'd be interested in something casual thursday night, getting to the hotel around 6pm and will be looking to go grab some dinner and beer and catch up.


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## Ross

Jayse,

3 of us from Brizzy arring at 4.50pm Thursday. I believe there is something being put on at the Wig & Pen Thursday night - see you there :icon_cheers: 

Cheers Ross


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## jayse

Cool, we will only be a few minutes behind you.


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## Maxt

I'll be arriving later Thurs night. Make sure they keep the bar at the hotel open late!


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## Stagger

Again, thanks to all the brewery and sponsors for the tremendous response to the AABC to be held in Canberra later this year. 


The committee have decided to stop the accommodation packages as of the end of August, after that time it will be your responsibility to arrange your own accommodation. 

Thanks again and look forward to having a beer or three,

Craig


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## Stagger

GDay brewers, now that the competitions are if full flight the entry form is now available on the AABC web page. Please read the entry form carefully, it has all relative information on it.

Craig


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## browndog

Stagger said:


> GDay brewers, now that the competitions are if full flight the entry form is now available on the AABC web page. Please read the entry form carefully, it has all relative information on it.
> 
> Craig



Hey Stagger, I just took a look at the site and could not see any link to an entry form there mate, what's the go?

cheers

Browndog


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## Doogiechap

browndog said:


> Hey Stagger, I just took a look at the site and could not see any link to an entry form there mate, what's the go?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog


Here you go mate 
Are you putting your Wit in ? (Just scoping the competition out :lol: )


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## Stagger

Try this

http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/EntryFormAABC2009_v2.pdf


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## Katherine

Are there any drop off points in WA or do we have to send them across?


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## browndog

Doogiechap said:


> Here you go mate
> Are you putting your Wit in ? (Just scoping the competition out :lol: )



Thank you Sir, definitely putting the Wit in, I wasn't even going to enter it in the QABC09 until I was egged on by The Scientist, I owe him one.

cheers

Browndog


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## Fourstar

Katie said:


> Are there any drop off points in WA or do we have to send them across?



Im assuming you have placed in WA's state championships Katie?


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## Katherine

Fourstar said:


> Im assuming you have placed in WA's state championships Katie?



Yeah baby!


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## Bribie G

Fourstar said:


> Im assuming you have placed in WA's state championships Katie?


She has indeed, with a hopburst. Hopefully it won't end up next to a Hop Thief at the comp


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## Fourstar

Katie said:


> Yeah baby!



Giddy up! Well done!



BribieG said:


> She has indeed, with a hopburst. Hopefully it won't end up next to a Hop Thief at the comp



Hopburst = Aweesommmmeeee. Roll some heads a the nationals KT. I just so hope i dont have to face you if my pale places in Vicbrew... h34r:


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## Katherine

Fourstar said:


> Giddy up! Well done!
> 
> 
> 
> Hopburst = Aweesommmmeeee. Roll some heads a the nationals KT. I just so hope i dont have to face you if my pale places in Vicbrew... h34r:




Yeah not sure how it will go nationally, but we were pretty pleased to get a place in the WA comp. Espeacially for a Pale Ale! I thought I would have to brew something obscure that no body else brews LOL! When do you find out about the VicBrews?


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## Fourstar

Katie said:


> Yeah not sure how it will go nationally, but we were pretty pleased to get a place in the WA comp. Espeacially for a Pale Ale! I thought I would have to brew something obscure that no body else brews LOL! When do you find out about the VicBrews?



Judging is next weekend. I will be attending on the Sunday to steward/judge/loiter and will probabaly know the results then. Should be an interesting day, Ive got a specialty beer, pale ale, dark lager, stout and afarmhouse/wild beer in the comp. Makes it difficult for me to steward/judge somewhere!


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## Bribie G

I'm having a senior moment here:

I got a first and a second in the State in the low alcohol category with a mild ale and an English(ordinary) bitter.
Can I put both styles into the Nats or am I only limited to one entry in the low alc category?

<_<


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## AndrewQLD

BribieG said:


> I'm having a senior moment here:
> 
> I got a first and a second in the State in the low alcohol category with a mild ale and an English(ordinary) bitter.
> Can I put both styles into the Nats or am I only limited to one entry in the low alc category?
> 
> <_<


Both BribieG


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## Ross

BribieG said:


> I'm having a senior moment here:
> 
> I got a first and a second in the State in the low alcohol category with a mild ale and an English(ordinary) bitter.
> Can I put both styles into the Nats or am I only limited to one entry in the low alc category?
> 
> <_<



2 beers Bribie - Any sub styles you like.

Edit: remember, cut off this weekend if you want free postage with the other entries going from our shop.

cheers Ross


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## Bribie G

Thanks for that Ross, I'll be entering 3 beers but one of them hasn't been bottled yet  so I'll post express before the 16th


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## Stagger

G'Day brewing brothers and sisters, this time next week we will be well an truly into the 2009 AABC. Most of you are arriving on the Thursday so we thought it would be a good idea to have a meet and greet on Thursday night, we have reserved some tables at a local beer caf for your pleasure. Debacle is a well known beer caf in Canberra and has a excellent menu. We have book tables from 6:30pm, so if you would like to come along, have a look at the menu attached. 

http://www.outincanberra.com.au/debacle/menus

If you are interested please PM me so I can add you to the list. 



Time 6:30 pm 

Date 22nd October 

30 Lonsdale Street Braddon 

(walking distance of your accommodation) 

Craig Webber 

Canberra Brewers 

0409906544


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## Stagger

Just a reminder to all brewers that are coming down to Canberra for the up coming nationals, if you are planning on coming to club night you will need to register with me. There is a cost of $30-, this will get you a cocktail dinner and great craft beer.

Caig


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## jayse

Only one day to go :super: 
Looking forward too seeing most of you tomorow evening, beer boots are polished and um yeah I think I am all set. B)


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## The King of Spain

Anyway I can check that my entry has been received? Can't see anything on the site and notice that my cheque had not been cashed. I can just picture a sodden Aust Post mail bag....


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## bradsbrew

The King of Spain said:


> Anyway I can check that my entry has been received? Can't see anything on the site and notice that my cheque had not been cashed. I can just picture a sodden Aust Post mail bag....



+1 Been having the same worries. Would just like to know they arrived safe and sound.

Brad


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## Fatgodzilla

bradsbrew said:


> +1 Been having the same worries. Would just like to know they arrived safe and sound.
> 
> Brad




Wouldn't read too much into the cheques not clearing - the Chief Steward isn't the Club Treasurer so he won't bank the money. The guys organising this are top shelf and well organised. I'm sure your beers safe and sound and stored well. Best of luck. Will try to get a better answer for you via CBC forum.


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## bradsbrew

Fatgodzilla said:


> Wouldn't read too much into the cheques not clearing - the Chief Steward isn't the Club Treasurer so he won't bank the money. The guys organising this are top shelf and well organised. I'm sure your beers safe and sound and stored well. Best of luck. Will try to get a better answer for you via CBC forum.


Cheers, Got every bit of faith in the people running the comp. Havent got alot of faith in aussie post handling though.


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## Ross

All the ones sent via CraftBrewer are there safe & sound along with 5 kegs for the club night  

Getting excited  

Cheers Ross


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## The King of Spain

Ross said:


> All the ones sent via CraftBrewer are there safe & sound along with 5 kegs for the club night
> 
> Getting excited
> 
> Cheers Ross




Ross i would so like to be there. Man.....


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## samhighley

Very much looking forward to meeting some interstate AHB'ers at club night on Saturday.

Who from AHB is coming along?


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## Darren

Hey All,

As a brewer with no beers entered in this comp, can I conclude that there are enough judges to ensure that no-one will be judging their own beer on the day?

It would be a significant downer to Aussie homebrewers if it were to happen again as happened with the NSW state comp.

cheers

darren


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## monkeybusiness

For those of us who are coming as observers (read general socialising & brewery tours) does anyone know what time things are kicking off tomorrow?


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## Charlie

bradsbrew said:


> Cheers, Got every bit of faith in the people running the comp. Havent got alot of faith in aussie post handling though.



You can all rest easy - I didn't get one soggy box out of the whole lot

cheers

Charles
CBC Comp Sec


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## Charlie

monkeybusiness said:


> For those of us who are coming as observers (read general socialising & brewery tours) does anyone know what time things are kicking off tomorrow?



We are aiming to get the first beers served by 9:30, but there might not be a great deal of room for spectators.

If you have every seen a beer judging session before, its hardly a spectator sport !

Given what the weather is supposed to be, you're better off sleeping in and heading to the Olims beer garden for a quiet one !


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## DarrylB

The latest schedule had judging finishing around 1pm, time for a quick feed before heading off on the tours.


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## Jye

How was the first day of judging?


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## bconnery

Darren said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As a brewer with no beers entered in this comp, can I conclude that there are enough judges to ensure that no-one will be judging their own beer on the day?
> 
> It would be a significant downer to Aussie homebrewers if it were to happen again as happened with the NSW state comp.
> 
> cheers
> 
> darren



Actually, I've got a better idea. Instead, judges should always judge a category in which they are entered. That way, those who support the comp by brewing and judging can get an extra reward because they'll always win. 
If all three judges in a class were entered then there's places 1, 2 and 3. Judging over, time saved, and we can all go down the pub...


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## The King of Spain

bradsbrew said:


> On a positive note, Any indication on what beers were judged today??
> 
> Cheers Brad




Prod...

Does anyone know?


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## Peter Wadey

Jebus, how old are some of you guys?
Have you become so used to instant gratification that you require up to date information on everything?
Get a grip!
The people organising such things have much more important things to do than just pander to the requirements of the web community.
Get involved and you might have a different perspective on things.

And in case you were wondering,
Yes I do have a beer entered (didn't drink them all this year apparently).
Yes I have been involved before.
Yes I was around before children were given access to ARPANET.

Wadey
Yes, my real name, not some anonymous internet handle.


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## Peter Wadey

bradsbrew said:


> Sorry for showing an interest in how things are going. <_<



If you were that interested you would be there.
Wadey


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## clean brewer

Peter Wadey said:


> Jebus, how old are some of you guys?
> Have you become so used to instant gratification that you require up to date information on everything?
> Get a grip!
> The people organising such things have much more important things to do than just pander to the requirements of the web community.
> Get involved and you might have a different perspective on things.
> 
> And in case you were wondering,
> Yes I do have a beer entered (didn't drink them all this year apparently).
> Yes I have been involved before.
> Yes I was around before children were given access to ARPANET.
> 
> Wadey
> Yes, my real name, not some anonymous internet handle.


Wasnt the above reply a reason why people dont post on here anymore??? :unsure: 

Maybe a simple answer like, "Sorry guys, I have no idea on whats been/being judged today, keep an eye out though" might not stir the pot as you've done somewhat................

CB


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## Steve

bradsbrew said:


> Yes you are right. What sort of prick am I to not take time off work and go on an interstate trip that I cant afford and stay at home and work on the house and play with my two, 3.5 and 18 month, girls. i really should get my priorities right.




Dont worry about it bradsbrew. Family comes first. You HAVE got your priroties right.
Cheers :beer: 
Steve


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## The King of Spain

clean brewer said:


> Wasnt the above reply a reason why people dont post on here anymore??? :unsure:
> 
> Maybe a simple answer like, "Sorry guys, I have no idea on whats been/being judged today, keep an eye out though" might not stir the pot as you've done somewhat................
> 
> CB



I read that little rant waiting for the punch line except there was none. He was serious :huh:


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## Peter Wadey

clean brewer said:


> Wasnt the above reply a reason why people dont post on here anymore??? :unsure:
> 
> Maybe a simple answer like, "Sorry guys, I have no idea on whats been/being judged today, keep an eye out though" might not stir the pot as you've done somewhat................
> 
> CB



Cleanbrewer,
While it might be 'nice' posting a reply that say's I know nothing, I think it would be a waste of bandwidth and something I would happily leave for others.

Have you ever organised a comp to appreciate my point?

Steve,
Nobody ever said he didn't have his priorities right. Just that he needs to learn some patience.
Am sure the girls will teach him this in time. Not sure how he manages to play with his girls & play on the internet at the same time though.

Spare a though for the organisers and workers,
Peter


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## Maple

Peter Wadey said:


> Cleanbrewer,
> While it might be 'nice' posting a reply that say's I know nothing, I think it would be a waste of bandwidth and something I would happily leave for others.
> 
> Have you ever organised a comp to appreciate my point?
> 
> Steve,
> Nobody ever said he didn't have his priorities right. Just that he needs to learn some patience.
> Am sure the girls will teach him this in time. Not sure how he manages to play with his girls & play on the internet at the same time though.
> 
> Spare a though for the organisers and workers,
> Peter


Peter, seriously, go see a proctologist about that thing that's crawled up your back-side. I see your point that patience is a virtue that maybe isn't all that common of late, but maybe take it back a touch. RDWHAHB (seems like you have a few of decent quality to make it to Nats)


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## yardy

Peter Wadey said:


> Jebus, how old are some of you guys?
> Have you become so used to instant gratification that you require up to date information on everything?
> Get a grip!
> The people organising such things have much more important things to do than just pander to the requirements of the web community.
> Get involved and you might have a different perspective on things.
> 
> And in case you were wondering,
> Yes I do have a beer entered (didn't drink them all this year apparently).
> Yes I have been involved before.
> Yes I was around before children were given access to ARPANET.
> 
> Wadey
> Yes, my real name, not some anonymous internet handle.





give us a Wadey sandwich and make it really snappy  


Yard

(anonymous handle)


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## bigfridge

clean brewer said:


> Wasnt the above reply a reason why people dont post on here anymore??? :unsure:
> 
> Maybe a simple answer like, "Sorry guys, I have no idea on whats been/being judged today, keep an eye out though" might not stir the pot as you've done somewhat................
> 
> CB



I tend to agree with what Peter said - but it could have been framed a bit more politely.

The original question, even though innocently posed, is fairly offensive to those who work hard to make the beer comps a success. BradsBrew, nobody is saying that you should travel across the country to work at the Nationals, but your question suggests that you have not even helped at your local or state competition.

Beer competitions are not like horse races. The beers are not paraded in front of the judges and the winners announced after each flight.

It is essential that the identity of the brewer be kept secret until the conclusion of the competition to avoid bias and misunderstandings. Imagine if it was announced that at the end of day one, the sour Russian Imperial Stout was a cracker beer in the Specialty class and that it was a shoe-in for BOS. Now there may only be one such beer in the comp so the brewer gets an early result and starts to boast to all his mates. What happens if the Specialties were actually being tasted over two days and all the beers from the second day were perfect, so that when the results were announced The Sour RIS doesn't even get a mention. You can imagine the cries of 'rigged', 'corrupt' etc that would ensue.

Then there is all the checking of the mathematical accuracy of the score sheets (ie do they add up, are they within range etc) and the Cheif Judge reviews them for quality comments and consistent scoring. Often beers may have to be re-tasted to bring two panels into line to select the placegetters etc. Add to that the fact that all the officials are usually too stuffed to care what was tasted at the end of each day to give a daily announcement.

As you can see there is a lot of effort that goes into running a competition and all the many hours are put in by volunteers who do it just for the love of good beer.

David


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## bradsbrew

B_chan said:


> Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!)






starkesbier said:


> Anyone have any idea when and where the results will be released?
> 
> The suspense is driving me to drink! :icon_drunk:
> 
> Cheers
> Starkesbier






Jye said:


> The results could be a couple of days away, the Head Steward will double/triple check them and release them when he is happy.
> 
> They will probably be posted here and on the QABC website, maybe even twitted
> PS there are a few photos of the event on twitter.






lefty2446 said:


> You know what I'm like :-0
> 
> Adrian



I thought it might pan out like the local one, as above quotes from the QABC thread, why i asked the initial question. 
I am only new to comps, my first one this year. The call for extra help was put out to late for me. i will help next year.

All previous posts on this thread will be deleted. Sorry to offend and waste your precious time. <_<


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## winkle

bradsbrew said:


> I thought it might pan out like the local one, as above quotes from the QABC thread, why i asked the initial question.
> I am only new to comps, my first one this year. The call for extra help was put out to late for me. i will help next year.
> 
> All previous posts on this thread will be deleted. Sorry to offend and waste your precious time. <_<



This has been a full on timetable, with judging, tours and extra drinking. I'm sure the results will be posted up eventually - I'm off to the club nite right now B) . Well organised show BTW.


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## starkesbier

Hey Bradsbrew,

I too am not involved but was excited by the opportunity to enter beers at the national level. My anticipation of the results also had me checking regularly for any hint of how I might of gone. I thought Wadey was way over the top. Don't take it to heart.

By the way, the bad news is that my inside source suggest that Qld got pasted. Of my own three entries I got nowhere. Hope you had better luck.

Starkesbier.


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## Asher

WA keepin it real at AABC! 
word has it that RandyRob(WA) BOS'd


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## kook

Go Rob - better save any left for the case swap


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## Paul H

starkesbier said:


> Hey Bradsbrew,
> 
> I too am not involved but was excited by the opportunity to enter beers at the national level. My anticipation of the results also had me checking regularly for any hint of how I might of gone. I thought Wadey was way over the top. Don't take it to heart.
> 
> By the way, the bad news is that my inside source suggest that Qld got pasted. Of my own three entries I got nowhere. Hope you had better luck.
> 
> Starkesbier.



Just arrived home in Brisbane after a 5am wakeup after club night.

I can confirm that Qld was beaten like a red headed stepchild only saved from last because NT & Tas didn't have entries. Kudos to the boys from Canberra for their efforts on hosting the comp & hosting the out of towners. 

If you get the chance to visit the Wig & Pen do yourself a favour & sample so of the treats on offer. The brewer Richard Watkins makes some great beer & gave a great tour.

Cheers

Paul


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## Bribie G

When we get the scoresheets back, any QLD brewers who are interested we might get an email or PM post mortem going and see if we can identify any common trends and a battle plan, to see what needs doing to lift the quality for next year. I wonder if it's a result of serious faults that need addressing, or just not-to-style issues? If the latter then maybe look at beefing up BJCP training in QLD and maybe also beefing up the BABBs mini comps. They are fine as is but I could see a couple of enjoyable add ons - one suggestion being that every entrant brings two bottles so that the winner, second and third can be sampled after the results are announced and members who are interested in brewing to that style can taste the best of the night from a BJCP viewpoint.... could be an educational tool and that's part of what the club is about - education and sampling beeers. Maybe some more brewdays ... :super: 

The Canberra club has since the beginning AFAIK been associated with the Wig and Pen (not in a commercial sense I hasten to add) and have had a leg up in the quality department, as well as a solid well trained judging cohort - good on them. (edit: the point I'm making is that the scoresheet comments will be gold). Anyway early days and nose to the grindstone for next year :icon_cheers:


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## Charlie

OK ... my head has now cleared from the club night, so the results are :

1. LOW ALCOHOL	
1. Asher Mitchell	Scottish Light Ale 125	WA
2. Barry Cranston	Southern English Brown Ale	124	NSW
3. Craig O'Malley	English Bitter 118	SA

2. PALE LAGER	
1. Ross Mitchell	Pale Continental Lager	129	ACT
2. Gary Drury	Munich Helles 125	WA
3. Ross Mitchell	Munich Helles 121.5	ACT

3. PILSNER
1. Peter Winch	Bohemian Pilsener 121	SA
2. Andrew Clark	German Pilsner 117.5	QLD
3. Lyall Cottam	Bohemian Pilsner 111.5	QLD

4. AMBER/DARK LAGER	
1. Ross Mitchell	Vienna Lager 125	ACT
2. Barry Cranston	Vienna Lager 124	NSW
3. Simon Conlon	Oktoberfest / Marzen 122.5	QLD

5. STRONG LAGER
1. Duane Wright	Doppelbock 121	NSW
2. Ross Mitchell	Traditional Bock 120.5	ACT
3. Adam Beauchamp	Maibock 111	SA

6. PALE ALE	
1. Martin Budden	English Pale Ale 121.5	ACT
2. Darryn Watson	Blonde Ale 120.5	WA
3. Ross Mitchell	Kolsch 120	ACT

7. AMERICAN PALE ALE
1. Asher Mitchell	American Pale Ale 133.5	WA
2. Adam Beauchamp	American Pale Ale 121.5	SA
3. Ben Hutchins	American Pale Ale 118.5	VIC

8. BITTER ALE
1. Stephen Neilsen	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter 133	ACT
2. John Strantzen	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter	120.5	VIC
3. Barry Cranston	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB)	120	NSW

9. BROWN ALE
1. Mark Bilbrough	American Brown Ale 115.5	ACT
2. Daniel Jones	Scottish Ale 115	SA
3. Peter White	Northern English Brown Ale	106.5	NSW

10. PORTER
1. Andrew Barraclough	Robust Porter 120.5	VIC
2. Ben Smee & Daniel Elkington	Baltic Porter 120	NSW
3. Cameron Peake Robust Porter 119.5	NSW

11. STOUT
1. Rob Hart - Halfluck Brewing	Oatmeal Stout 138	WA
2. Brad Gray Dry Stout 129	QLD
3. Lance Tucker Dry Stout 123.5	WA

12. STRONG STOUT
1. Brenton Rehn Australian/Foreign Extra Stout 120.5	SA
2. Lukas Dedman Imperial Stout 108.5	VIC
3. Dr Case Sinclair Russian Imperial Stout	108	WA

13. IPA
1. Craig Webber Imperial IPA 127	ACT
2. Adam Beauchamp American IPA 122	SA
3. Michael Meissner Imperial IPA 120	NSW

14. STRONG ALE
1. Brenton Rehn Old Ale 117	SA
2. Barry Cranston English Barley Wine 115.5	NSW
3. Geoff Daly Strong Scotch Ale 112.5	VIC

15. BELGIAN ALE
1. Gavin Germon Belgian Dark Strong Ale	124	VIC
2. John Kingston Belgian Dark Strong Ale	122.5	VIC
3. Anthony Mibus Belgian Blonde Ale 118.5	SA

16. GERMAN WHEAT
1. Darryl Barbour Dunkel Weizen 121.5	ACT
2. Darryl Barbour Weizen/Weissbier 118	ACT
3. Robin Brown Weizen/Weissbier 114	VIC

17. FARMHOUSE ALE	
1. Michael Guenzel Fruit Lambic - Raspberry	129	VIC
2. Barry Cranston Biere de Garde 119	NSW
3. Craig Webber Flanders Red Ale 111	ACT

18. SPECIALTY
1. Johann Ulrich van der Walt	Other Specialty 130	QLD
Sour Raspberry Imperial Stout
2. Andrew Clark Wood-aged Beer 127	QLD
French Oak Aged Belgian Golden Strong Ale
3. Barry Cranston Other Specialty 123	NSW
Aussie Brown Dog Ale

Beer of Show Oatmeal Stout (Rob Hart WA)

Champion Brewer (joint)	Ross Mitchell two 1st, one 2nd, one 3rd - 10pts
Barry Cranston	four 2nd, two 3rd - 10 pts

Champion State ACT 28 pts seven 1st,two 2nd, three 3rd 

NSW	18 pts one 1st, five 2nd, five 3rd
SA	18 pts three 1st, three 2nd, three 3rd 
VIC	18 pts three 1st, three 2nd, three 3rd

WA	15 pts three 1st, two 2nd, two 3rd
QLD	11 pts one 1st , three 2nd, two 3rd


----------



## Charlie

BribieG said:


> When we get the scoresheets back, any QLD brewers who are interested we might get an email or PM post mortem going and see if we can identify any common trends and a battle plan, to see what needs doing to lift the quality for next year. I wonder if it's a result of serious faults that need addressing, or just not-to-style issues? If the latter then maybe look at beefing up BJCP training in QLD and maybe also beefing up the BABBs mini comps. They are fine as is but I could see a couple of enjoyable add ons - one suggestion being that every entrant brings two bottles so that the winner, second and third can be sampled after the results are announced and members who are interested in brewing to that style can taste the best of the night from a BJCP viewpoint.... could be an educational tool and that's part of what the club is about - education and sampling beeers. Maybe some more brewdays ... :super:
> 
> The Canberra club has since the beginning AFAIK been associated with the Wig and Pen (not in a commercial sense I hasten to add) and have had a leg up in the quality department, as well as a solid well trained judging cohort - good on them. (edit: the point I'm making is that the scoresheet comments will be gold). Anyway early days and nose to the grindstone for next year :icon_cheers:



Hi BribieG,

You're right - the CBC has been associated with the Wig & Pen, and that is definately part of the reason of our success - having all our members within a half hour drive also helps, along with a couple of very experienced, very good brewers (some of which are now professionals).

As an AABC organiser I also know that QLD (along with a few other states) didn't have their full "quota"of entries (i.e. some of the brewers placing at the QLD qualifying comp didn't enter them into the AABC) which immediately tilts the playfield against you ...

cheers


----------



## clean brewer

3. PILSNER
1. Peter Winch	Bohemian Pilsener 121	SA
2. Andrew Clark	German Pilsner 117.5	QLD
3. Lyall Cottam	Bohemian Pilsner 111.5	QLD

4. AMBER/DARK LAGER	
1. Ross Mitchell	Vienna Lager 125	ACT
2. Barry Cranston	Vienna Lager 124	NSW
3. Simon Conlon	Oktoberfest / Marzen 122.5	QLD

11. STOUT
1. Rob Hart - Halfluck Brewing	Oatmeal Stout 138	WA
2. Brad Gray Dry Stout 129	QLD
3. Lance Tucker Dry Stout 123.5	WA

18. SPECIALTY
1. Johann Ulrich van der Walt	Other Specialty 130	QLD
Sour Raspberry Imperial Stout
2. Andrew Clark Wood-aged Beer 127	QLD
French Oak Aged Belgian Golden Strong Ale
3. Barry Cranston Other Specialty 123	NSW
Aussie Brown Dog Ale

QLD	11 pts one 1st , three 2nd, two 3rd

Congrats to the Qld Brewers...... :beerbang: 

:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## winkle

Thanks to Stagger and the Canberra brewers for a well run event - they have certianly set the bar high for next year. We are apparently heading off to Plonk for some Faros and Lambics to do a last bit of liver punishment, before heading back up to Briso and work\soberity tomorrow  .
Club night was great.


----------



## yardy

Charlie said:


> 3. PILSNER
> 1. Peter Winch	Bohemian Pilsener 121	SA
> *2. Andrew Clark	German Pilsner 117.5	QLD*
> 3. Lyall Cottam	Bohemian Pilsner 111.5	QLD
> 
> 18. SPECIALTY
> 1. Johann Ulrich van der Walt	Other Specialty 130	QLD
> Sour Raspberry Imperial Stout*
> 2. Andrew Clark Wood-aged Beer 127	QLD*
> *French Oak Aged Belgian Golden Strong Ale*
> 3. Barry Cranston Other Specialty 123	NSW
> Aussie Brown Dog Ale




Congrats Andrew, is that Belgian I tried ?

Cheers
Yard


----------



## Thirsty Boy

damn - thats weird.

I got through to the Nationals with a sour raspberry imperial stout; and the guy who wins the Specialties category does it with a .... sour raspberry imperial stout.

Cool. At least I know for sure that the concept is a sound one - also know it can be done better than I did it too!! Congrats to Johann and all the other category winners.

Thanks to the Canberra brewers for hosting and all the hard work.

TB


----------



## dj1984

.5 of a point off 1st :lol: i did better here than sabsosa.


----------



## Korev

Barry bringing it strong!

Well done

Cheers 
P1


----------



## starkesbier

Well done to all the winners and a big thanks to everyone who made it possible. I appreciate the efforts of everyone involved.

Starkesbier


----------



## browndog

Congrats to all the winners and the organisers, judges, stewards etc, Well done Andrew, you kept us from dropping our dacks mate. QLD in 2010!

cheers

Browndog

edit:spellin


----------



## bradsbrew

Congrats to all place getters. Well done Johann (Qld) for 1st place in specialties. Pretty happy with a second for my stout, especially when it comes 2nd to the BOS.
As this is my first National comp entry, how does the scoring work the QLD was out of 50, I got 129 out of ??.
And (steppin on eggshells here) will there be a full summary once all is completed.
Thanks to all organisers and participants.
Cheers Brad


----------



## DanRayner

bradsbrew said:


> As this is my first National comp entry, how does the scoring work the QLD was out of 50, I got 129 out of ??.



150. Three judges each gives scores out of 50, their scores are combined and you get 129/150.

129 is a spectacular result - Excellent example of style - top work.

D


----------



## browndog

bradsbrew said:


> Congrats to all place getters. Well done Johann (Qld) for 1st place in specialties. Pretty happy with a second for my stout, especially when it comes 2nd to the BOS.
> As this is my first National comp entry, how does the scoring work the QLD was out of 50, I got 129 out of ??.
> And (steppin on eggshells here) will there be a full summary once all is completed.
> Thanks to all organisers and participants.
> Cheers Brad




Jeez, well done Brad, I totally missed that one mate, you must be stoked! I am going to have to get that recipe of you!

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Stuster

Congrats to all winners (and especially Barry and Mike). :super: 

Looks like a tough comp as always. Well done to all those who've put in the time to make this happen. :beerbang:


----------



## Vlad the Pale Aler

Well done Westcoastbrewers!


----------



## Maxt

BribieG said:


> When we get the scoresheets back, any QLD brewers who are interested we might get an email or PM post mortem going and see if we can identify any common trends and a battle plan, to see what needs doing to lift the quality for next year. I wonder if it's a result of serious faults that need addressing, or just not-to-style issues?



A really good point Bribie. In one of the flights I judged the judges were having this very same thought.... That if there seems to be a common thread in the beers (faults, stylistic inaccuracies), we should be feeding back this info to the wider brewing fraternity. In our case, it was in high gravity beers where many many beers were underattenuated, or with too many esters. The common explanation would be underpitching of yeast. I bet many of the RIS brewers were not making 4L starters, but something as simple as that could have lifted the beers enormously.

This is the way we get better, and as mentioned by Ross Mitchell, it's not about states, it's about all Australian craft brewers getting better and raising the bar.

Anyway, it was an awesome couple of days, topped off while drinking a smooth Obama, and seeing Jayse's bagpipe dance!


----------



## Chad

I'd also like to add my thanks to the Canberra Brewers for hosting such an awesome event. Every day seemed to be planned to the minute, which included some great trips around Canberra to some of the local beer/brewing attractions.

As a judge in training, it was also invaluable to be able to judge along side some more experienced interstate counterparts. Already looking forward to next year.


----------



## Screwtop

Well done Canberra Brewers from all reports a terrific even and well plannedt. 

Congrats to all winners, well done to the QLD boys who did well against such stiff competition, especially our own AndrewQLD.

Screwy


----------



## vonromanz

Howzit all

a mistake has been made in the specialty class. The beer and brewer have been mixed up. I entered an espresso stout but my name is in first place with the wrong beer.

Cheers

Johann

Ps: I hope my beer got first place


----------



## raven19

Well done to all the winners.

Some cracker beers in there for sure!

Well done to all SA brewers & Barry!


----------



## Franko

10. PORTER
1. Andrew Barraclough	Robust Porter 120.5	VIC
2. Ben Smee & Daniel Elkington	Baltic Porter 120	NSW
3. Cameron Peake Robust Porter 119.5	NSW

Well done Cameron from M.A.L.E. excellent effort mate congratulations

Franko


----------



## schooey

I was lucky enough to judge that Baltic Porter that came second at the Bathurst comp, it was a most awesome effort... It's reassuring that it scored very similar marks again... Well done, Ben & Daniel


----------



## ham2k

Franko said:


> 10. PORTER
> 1. Andrew Barraclough	Robust Porter 120.5	VIC
> 2. Ben Smee & Daniel Elkington	Baltic Porter 120	NSW
> 3. Cameron Peake Robust Porter 119.5	NSW
> 
> Well done Cameron from M.A.L.E. excellent effort mate congratulations
> 
> Franko



thanks mate.

big congrats also to PJ from M.A.L.E for his fantastic result below and for hand delivering the M.A.L.E entries to Canberra!

9. BROWN ALE
1. Mark Bilbrough	American Brown Ale 115.5	ACT
2. Daniel Jones	Scottish Ale 115	SA
3. Peter White	Northern English Brown Ale	106.5	NSW


----------



## kabooby

Well done PJ and Cameron. Excellent effort.

Kabooby


----------



## Franko

ham2k said:


> thanks mate.
> 
> big congrats also to PJ from M.A.L.E for his fantastic result below and for hand delivering the M.A.L.E entries to Canberra!
> 
> 9. BROWN ALE
> 1. Mark Bilbrough	American Brown Ale 115.5	ACT
> 2. Daniel Jones	Scottish Ale 115	SA
> 3. Peter White	Northern English Brown Ale	106.5	NSW



Well Done P.J looks like that English Brown has done it again
Congratulations mate well done

Franko


----------



## Hogan

kabooby said:


> Well done PJ and Cameron. Excellent effort.
> 
> Kabooby




Great result PJ & Cam.

Cheers, Hoges.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Great weekend and congratulations to all winners. I left Club Night early on Saturday (tired and emotional though the Wig & Pen grand gru may have helped !) Great to catch up with a few blokes again - enjoyed the fun on Saturday and it was pity I couldn't see out more of the night (that'll teach me !) Quite a few people I wanted to chat to but couldn't. The whole weekend was a great example on how a club can organise a great championship. Anyone whinging is just showing poor form and isn't doing the event organisers any justice. Next year looks like Melbourne again and another ANHC - I'll be there !


----------



## geoffd

Congrats to the Feds with a whopping 28pts.
Good to see such an evenly balanced field, SA finally giving up the coopers kits, Little Creatures obviously has rubbed off on WA & the Banana Benders are pouring their xxxx down the dunny, well a few of them anyway. Would be good to see the Tazzy Devils get a comp up and running in the near future.

Beer is the winner, public awareness grows each year as more & more join in the fun & joy of craft brewing (will be interesting to see the totals - Vic had a huge rise to over 400 entries. Congrats to all entrants whether it be state or national & congrats to the mug bearers.

Finally a huge thanks to all the volunteers who organise, judge & steward - superb job well done.


----------



## Charlie

vonromanz said:


> Howzit all
> 
> a mistake has been made in the specialty class. The beer and brewer have been mixed up. I entered an espresso stout but my name is in first place with the wrong beer.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Johann
> 
> Ps: I hope my beer got first place



Apologies, Chuck the embarrassed competition secretary here ... I did make a mistake in transposing the brew title into the results. Johann did indeed win, but with his espresso stout - the sour raspberry imperial came a very credible 4th with 121 points

... and speaking oif the full results, I hope to finish checking the rest of the entries (to make sure the listings are right) and I hope to post the full results tonight

cheers


----------



## haysie

Charlie said:


> Apologies, Chuck the embarrassed competition secretary here ... I did make a mistake in transposing the brew title into the results. Johann did indeed win, but with his espresso stout - the sour raspberry imperial came a very credible 4th with 121 points
> 
> ... and speaking oif the full results, I hope to finish checking the rest of the entries (to make sure the listings are right) and I hope to post the full results tonight
> 
> cheers



There you go TB, you dont have a twin brewer! 121 nice result.


----------



## DanRayner

Wot bum luck!

121 points and 4th place! Must have been a tight flight with stiff competition

Top work TB


----------



## Thirsty Boy

I dunno - sounds like they already had Johann's name on a trophy and couldn't be buggered crossing it out..... If there's too much liquid paper on my returned score sheets there's gonna be trouble I tells ya. :lol: 

Thanks for clarifying Charlie - I was on tenterhooks for a while there after Johann said he didn't brew that beer.... was it him that won, but with a different beer? Or was it that beer that won with a different brewer (namely me)??? I got all excited.... but now - hopes dashed, dreams destroyed, live to fight another day I suppose...sniff, sob.  

I'll be back - maybe even with the same beer - base beer with another 12 months of age on it, see how the raspberry comes up then... perhaps a little Brett in some of the bottles. Hmmmmm

Well done Johann. :icon_cheers: 

Dan


----------



## vonromanz

Thanks for clarifying the result. I'm absolutely stoked by it! Thanks to all the organizers and judges who made this possible


----------



## AndrewQLD

Thanks to the organisers and congrats to all the place getters, I'm very happy with my 2 places.
Just arrived in Cairns this morning, boat docked at 10.00am, off to the Bluesky brewery for the day because I am sick of the commercial crap on the ship.
Wish me luck. :icon_chickcheers: 

Andrew


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

If anyone has a full list of the results can they post it on this thread. Could be a while till the AABC website is updated. I did not run a place but just over keen with interest to see where I ended up.

BYB


----------



## Bribie G

Same here, didn't get a place but I'd be interested to see if:


I was in the running, which would be encouraging (for example in the State comp I got a silver for a TTL style but didn't get a place because it was up against some really good ales)
Bombed out horrendously :lol:


----------



## brendanos

Sorry Thirsty the Double Expresso Stout was indeed sensational!! Nice work on the Sour Rasp RIS though.

Don't think anyone mentioned - but WCB took out best represented club at club night again, but it must have been close!





Um... not sure why AHB flipped that one?

We were rich FI/FO miner types, also brought along 3 kegs. Special thanks to The Bayside Brewers for dressing up this year too (as beach bums?) - I can only hope there's more than 2 clubs making an effort next year! C'mon guys, haven't you seen the effort the American's esp. Mr Papazian go to?


----------



## Andyd

Echoing everyone elses comments - a great job by Canberra brewers to put this on. The AABC has grown to be more than just the national competition, and is now a great opportunity for the homebrewing community to get together and have a great time!

For club night, well done to West Coast Brewers(WA) and Bayside Brewers (Vic), who put in the only "dress-up" effort on the night. I hope that we see a few more clubs put in that much effort for next years club night...

Also congratulations to all the stewards, judges and volunteers in general for donating their precious time to make the event a success - these things don't run themselves, so if you have the opportunity to help out at a local event, please do. Not only does it keep our homebrewing community alive, but it's a great way to meet other brewers out there.

Speaking of which, a big "Hi" to all the AHB'ers I met face-to-face for the first time on the weekend. It was fantastic to put faces to names (or at least forum tags) and share a few beers and stories with you all. Of special note has to be Jayse, who put on a spectacular display of air guitar and dancing all to bag pipes at the end of club night (you _really_ had to be there, although I do hear there is video of the event out there).

We're looking forward to seeing everyone down in Melbourne for the conference and AABC next year!

AndyD


----------



## Charlie

OK here is the full list (I'll be sending an email to the AABA web minions tomorrow)

LOW ALCOHOL	
1. Asher Mitchell	Scottish Light Ale	125	WA
2. Cranston, Barry	Southern English Brown Ale	124	NSW
3. Craig O'Malley	English Bitter	118	SA
4. Craig Webber	Mild Ale	116	ACT
5. Michael Gardner	Mild Ale	115	QLD
6. Craig Webber	Leichtes Weizen	114	ACT
7. Darryn Watson	Mild Ale	110	WA
8. John Strantzen	English Bitter	110	VIC
9. Stephens, Larry	Light Australian Lager	109	NSW
10. Mark McPherson	Leichtes Weizen	103	VIC
11. Paul Hyatt	Mild Ale	102	WA
12. Michael Day	English Bitter	102	ACT
13. Robin Brown	Mild Ale	101	VIC
14. Bruce Smith	Light Australian Lager	99	SA
15. Andrew Clark	English Bitter	97	QLD
16. Michael Gardner	English Bitter	88	QLD

PALE LAGER 
1. Ross Mitchell	Pale Continental Lager	129	ACT
2. Gary Drury	Munich Helles	125	WA
3. Ross Mitchell	Munich Helles	121.5	ACT
4. John Kingston	Pale Continental Lager	116	VIC
5. Craig Webber	Dortmunder	112.5	ACT
6. Tom Hardi	Australian Premium Lager	111.5	SA
7. Ross Kenrick	Australian Lager	108	QLD
8. Anthony Henderson	Pale Continental Lager	106.5	QLD
9. Andrew Clark	Munich Helles	96.5	QLD
10. Ben Hutchins	Australian Premium Lager	93	VIC
11. Adam Sykes	Australian Lager	91.5	WA
12. Grant Stott	Pale Continental Lager	91	VIC
13. Darryn Watson	Dortmunder	91	WA
14. Bruce Smith	Australian Premium Lager	87	SA
15. Campbell, Rod	Pale Continental Lager	81	NSW
16. Button, Josh	Munich Helles	74.5	NSW

PILSNER 
1. Peter Winch	Bohemian Pilsener	121	SA
2. Andrew Clark	German Pilsner	117.5	QLD
3. Lyall Cottam	Bohemian Pilsner	111.5	QLD
4. Paul Bowlen	Bohemian Pilsner	111	VIC
5. Lukas Dedman	Bohemian Pilsner	110.5	VIC
6. Craig Webber	Classic American Pilsner	109	ACT
7. David Steel	Bohemian Pilsner	105	ACT
8. Michael Bowron	German Pilsner	104	VIC
9. Meissner, Michael	Bohemian Pilsner	103	NSW
10. Wiggins, Collin	Bohemian Pilsner	101.5	NSW
11. Noyes, Brian	German Pilsner	100	NSW
12. Damir Vrkic	Bohemian Pilsner	99	ACT
13. Asher Mitchell	German Pilsner	97	WA

AMBER/DARK LAGER 
1. Ross Mitchell	Vienna Lager	125	ACT
2. Cranston, Barry	Vienna Lager	124	NSW
3. Simon Conlon	Oktoberfest / Marzen	122.5	QLD
4. Ian Walker	Schwarzbier (Black beer)	122	WA
5. Adam Beauchamp	Oktoberfest	120	SA
6. Ben Hutchins	California Common Beer	117	VIC
7. Abfalter, Gavin	Schwarzbier	114.5	NSW
8. Craig Webber	Schwarzbier	113	ACT
9. Adam Beauchamp	Munich Dunkel	112	SA
10. Liam Ahearn	Oktoberfest / Marzen	107.5	QLD
11. Robinson, Darren	Schwarzbier	105.5	NSW
12. Ross Mitchell	Munich Dunkel	104	ACT
13. Anthony Henderson	Munich Dunkel	103.5	QLD
14. Stuart Clifford	Vienna Lager	103	WA
15. Naughty Dog Brewing	Oktoberfest (Marzen)	101	WA
16. John Kingston	Schwarzbier	99	VIC
17. John Strantzen	North German Altbier	97.5	VIC
18. Peter Winch	Schwatzbier	51	SA

STRONG LAGER 
1. Wright, Duane	Doppelbock	121	NSW
2. Ross Mitchell	Traditional Bock	120.5	ACT
3. Adam Beauchamp	Maibock	111	SA
4. William Steudler	Doppelbock	110.5	QLD
5. John Kingston	Doppelbock	109.5	VIC
6. Gavin Germon	Traditional Bock	108	VIC
7. Joe Prout	Doppelbock	107.5	VIC
8. Anthony Henderson	Strong Pale Lager	107	QLD
9. Mark Rasheed	Doppelbock	101.5	SA
10. Craig Webber	Maibock/Hellesbock	99.5	ACT
11. Craig Webber	Traditional Bock	99.5	ACT
12. Ted Cockett - Out House Brew	Doppelbock	99.5	WA
13. Ron Sullivan	Strong Pale Lager	98	WA
14. Jared Birbeck	Traditional Bock	94.5	SA
15. Graeme Starke	Traditional Bock	92	QLD
16. Gray, Alex	Traditional Bock	70.5	NSW

PALE ALE 
1. Martin Budden	English Pale Ale	121.5	ACT
2. Darryn Watson	Blonde Ale	120.5	WA
3. Ross Mitchell	Kolsch	120	ACT
4. Ron Sullivan	English Pale Ale	119.5	WA
5. Johann Ulrich van der Walt	Belgian Pale Ale	116.5	QLD
6. Sam Highley	Kolsch	115.5	ACT
7. Spunner, Brett	Belgian Pale Ale	115	NSW
8. Andrew Clark	Australian Pale Ale	112.5	QLD
9. Spunner, Brett	Belgian Pale Ale	111	NSW
10. Ben Hutchins	Australian Pale Ale	111	VIC
11. Tim Shea	Australian Pale Ale	94.5	VIC
12. Michael van der Heyden	English Pale Ale	94	VIC
13. Richard Main	Aust Pale Ale	84.5	SA
14. Bruce Smith	Aust Pale Ale	83	SA

AMERICAN PALE ALE 
1. Asher Mitchell	American Pale Ale	133.5	WA
2. Adam Beauchamp	American Pale Ale	121.5	SA
3. Ben Hutchins	American Pale Ale	118.5	VIC
4. Ross Mitchell	American Pale Ale	115	ACT
5. Mathison, Stephen	American Pale Ale	113	NSW
6. Matthew Stephenson	American Pale Ale	110.5	ACT
7. Button, Josh	American Pale Ale	110	NSW
8. Bryce Van Denderen	American Pale Ale	108	VIC
9. Gavin Priest	American Pale Ale	107.5	QLD
10. Mark McPherson	American Pale Ale	102.5	VIC
11. Bruce SMITH	American Pale Ale	98.5	SA
12. David Clarke	American Pale Ale	96	QLD
13. Tom Dixon	American Pale Ale	62	ACT
14. Chris Moss	American Pale Ale	54	QLD

BITTER ALE 
1. Stephen hewitt neilsen	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB)	133	ACT
2. John Strantzen	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter	120.5	VIC
3. Cranston, Barry	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB)	120	NSW
4. Brenton Rehn	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter	119	SA
5. John Strantzen	English Best Bitter	116.5	VIC
6. Meissner, Michael	English Best Bitter	111.5	NSW
7. Andrew Clark	English Best Bitter	106	QLD
8. Sam Highley	Dusseldorfer Altbier	103	ACT
9. Michael Day	English Extra Special/Strong Bitter (ESB)	102	ACT
10. Chris Moss	English Best Bitter	96	QLD
11. Cranston, Barry	Dusseldorfer Altbier	94.5	NSW
12. Ian Walker	English Best Bitter	90.5	WA
13. Ross Kenrick	English Best Bitter	88	QLD
14. Robin Brown	Dusseldofer Altbier	73.5	VIC
15. Andrew Hearl	English Best Bitter	55	SA

BROWN ALE 
1. Mark Bilbrough	American Brown Ale	115.5	ACT
2. Daniel Jones	Scottish Ale	115	SA
3. White, Peter J	Northern English Brown Ale	106.5	NSW
4. Luke O'Brien	American Brown Ale	104	SA
5. Asher Mitchell	Scottish Ale	101	WA
6. Mark McPherson	American Brown Ale	100	VIC
7. Ron Sullivan	Northern English Brown Ale	96	WA
8. Cranston, Barry	American Brown Ale	92	NSW
9. Daryl Eaves	American Brown Ale	88	QLD
10. Linton Young	Northern English Brown Ale	87.5	VIC
11. Darren Hayes	Irish Red Ale	87.5	VIC
12. Megan Watson	Scottish Ale	80.5	ACT
13. Anthony Mibus	Irish Red	78.5	SA
14. Asher Mitchell	American Brown Ale	77.5	WA
15. Jye Smith	American Brown Ale	69	QLD
16. Megan Watson	Australian Dark/Old Ale	67.5	ACT

PORTER 
1. Andrew Barraclough	Robust Porter	120.5	VIC
2. Smee, Ben & Elkington, Daniel	Baltic Porter	120	NSW
3. Peake, Cameron	Robust Porter	119.5	NSW
4. stephen hewitt neilsen	Robust Porter	117.5	ACT
5. Luke O'Brien	Brown Porter	115	SA
6. Wadey, Peter	Baltic Porter	115	NSW
7. Luke O'Brien Robust Porter	114.5	SA
8. Lyall Cottam	Brown Porter	111	QLD
9. Megan Watson	Brown Porter	104.5	ACT
10. Robin Brown	Brown Porter	103.5	VIC
11. Craig Webber	Robust Porter	103.5	ACT
12. Liam Ahearn	Robust Porter	102	QLD
13. Brad Bown	Robust Porter	101.5	SA
14. St Augustine Brewery	Robust Porter	101.5	WA
15. Red Robin Brewery	Robust Porter	101.5	WA
16. Mark Leathem	Robust Porter	99.5	VIC
17. Ross Kenrick	Robust Porter	96.5	QLD

STOUT 
1. Halfluck Brewing	Oatmeal Stout	138	WA
2. Brad Gray	Dry Stout	129	QLD
3. Lance Tucker	Dry Stout	123.5	WA
4. Matthew Stephenson	Dry Stout	122.5	ACT
5. Tom Dixon	Dry Stout	122	ACT
6. Brown	Dry Stout	122	ACT
7. Michael Watson	Oatmeal Stout	120	VIC
8. Michael Bowron	Dry Stout	119.5	VIC
9. Bruce Smith	Sweet Stout	118.5	SA
10. David McClure	Dry Stout	114.5	QLD
11. Brad Gray	Sweet Stout	114.5	QLD
12. Abel Van Wyk	Sweet Stout	113	SA
13. Tom Ballantyne	Oatmeal Stout	102	SA
14. Paul Yates	Oatmeal Stout	101	VIC
15. Cranston, Barry	Oatmeal Stout	99.5	NSW
16. Brendon Nutt	Dry Stout	0	WA

STRONG STOUT 
1. Brenton Rehn	Australian Stout	120.5	SA
2. Lukas Dedman	Imperial Stout	108.5	VIC
3. Dr Case Sinclair	Russian Imperial Stout	108	WA
4. Darryl Barbour	Australian Stout/Foreign Extra Stout	107.5	ACT
5. Luke O'Brien	Australian Stout	106	SA
6. Michael Gardner	Australian Stout / Foreign Extra Stout	103.5	QLD
7. Wayne Lunn	Australian Stout	100.5	SA
8. Campbell Ritchie	Australian Stout / Foreign Extra Stout	99	QLD
9. Mark Hibberd	Australian/Foreign Extra Stout	99	VIC
10. Sneddon, Tony	Australian Stout/Foreign Extra Stout	97.5	NSW
11. Anthony Henderson	Russian Imperial Stout	86.5	QLD
12. Brendan O'Sullivan	Russian Imperial Stout	82	WA
13. David Steel	Russian Imperial Stout	81	ACT
14. Cameron Turner	Imperial Stout	79.5	VIC
15. Craig Webber	Russian Imperial Stout	52.5	ACT

IPA 
1. Craig Webber	Imperial IPA	127	ACT
2. Adam Beauchamp	American IPA	122	SA
3. Meissner, Michael	Imperial IPA	120	NSW
4. Beers, Dan	American IPA	117	NSW
5. Michael Day	English IPA	116	ACT
6. Lyndon Wilson	American IPA	110	SA
7. Robin Brown	American IPA	108	VIC
8. Craig Webber	American IPA	105	ACT
9. Robin Brown	Imperial IPA	104	VIC
10. Brian Fitzgerald	American IPA	103	WA
11. Halfluck Brewing	American IPA	101.5	WA
12. Ross Kenrick	Imperial IPA	98	QLD
13. Chris Moss	American IPA	97	QLD
14. Nathaniel Reeves	American IPA	96	VIC
15. Luke O'Brien	English IPA	90	SA
16. Tony Brown	American IPA 80	QLD

STRONG ALE 
1. Brenton Rehn	Old Ale	117	SA
2. Cranston, Barry	English Barley Wine	115.5	NSW
3. Geoff Daly	Strong Scotch Ale	112.5	VIC
4. Tony Brown	American Barley Wine	112	QLD
5. Tristan Chittleborough	Strong Scotch Ale	108	VIC
6. Craig Webber	American Barley wine	107.5	ACT
7. stephen hewitt neilsen	American Barley wine	106.5	ACT
8. Halfluck Brewing	English Barleywine	106	WA
9. Paul Hyatt	American Barleywine	105	WA
10. Cranston, Barry	Old Ale (English Strong Ale)	102	NSW
11. William Steudler	English Barly Wine	98.5	QLD
12. Charles Newton	English Barley Wine	97	ACT
13. Geoff Bryant	Old Ale (English Strong Ale)	96.5	VIC
14. Beers, Dan	American Barley Wine	96.5	NSW
15. Brian Fitzgerald	Old Ale (English Strong Ale)	90	WA

BELGIAN ALE 
1. Gavin Germon	Belgian Dark Strong Ale	124	VIC
2. John Kingston	Belgian Dark Strong Ale	122.5	VIC
3. Anthony Mibus	Belgian Blonde Ale	118.5	SA
4. Clay Prout	Belgian Blonde Ale	116.5	WA
5. Jye Smith	Belgian Dark Strong Ale	115	QLD
6. Brenton Rehn	Belgian Strong Golden Ale	114.5	SA
7. Brett Greenwood	Dubbel	111	VIC
8. David Steel	Belgian Golden Strong Ale	108.5	ACT
9. Meissner, Michael	Belgian Blond Ale	102.5	NSW
10. Cranston, Bary	Belgian Dark Strong Ale	102.5	NSW
11. Clinton Mitchell	Tripel	99.5	WA
12. David Steel	Dubbel	95	ACT
13. Naughty Dog Brewing	Belgian Strong Dark Ale	94	WA
14. David Clarke	Belgian Blond Ale	93.5	QLD
15. Liam Ahearn	Tripel	88.5	QLD
16. Ross Mitchell	Tripel	82.5	ACT

GERMAN WHEAT 
1. Darryl Barbour	Dunkel Weizen	121.5	ACT
2. Darryl Barbour	Weizen/Weissbier	118	ACT
3. Robin Brown	Weizen/Wheat Beer	114	VIC
4. Stephen Staples	Weizenbock	113.5	QLD
5. Andrew Inglis	Weizen/Wheat Beer	104.5	VIC
6. Moss, Grant	Dunkel Weizen	102	NSW
7. Robin Brown	Weizenbock	98.5	VIC
8. Anthony Mibus	Weizen	94.5	SA
9. Gary Drury	Weizen/Weissbier	94	WA
10. Red Robin Brewery	Weizen/Weissbier	93	WA
11. Jye Smith	Weizenbock	92.5	QLD
12. Button, Josh	Weizen/Weibbier (Wheat)	90.5	NSW
13. Peter Winch	Dunkel Weizen	85.5	SA
14. Jared Birbeck	Weizen	85	SA
15. Darrell Wallace	Weizen/Weissbier	79	ACT
16. Cranston, Barry	Weizenbock	41	NSW

FARMHOUSE ALE 
1. Michael Guenzel	Fruit Lambic - Raspberry	129	VIC
2. Cranston, Barry	Biere de Garde	119	NSW
3. Craig Webber	Flanders Red Ale	111	ACT
4. Robin Brown	Biere de Garde	108	VIC
5. Asher Mitchell	Gueuze	108	WA
6. Mark Starc	Flanders Red Ale	107.5	VIC
7. Melinda Evans	Biere de Garde	107	QLD
8. Robinson, Darren	Biere de Garde	103	NSW
9. Cranston, Barry	Saison	101	NSW
10. Doug Hounslow	Belgian Witbier	99	WA
11. Tony Brown	Witbier (White)	99	QLD
12. Ken Jermey	Fruit lambic- Kriek	93	SA
13. Graeme Starke	Saison	91	QLD
14. Stuart Clifford	Saison	88	WA
15. Craig Webber	Saison	84	ACT
16. stephen hewitt neilsen	Saison	73.5	ACT

SPECIALTY 
1. Johann Ulrich van der Walt	Expresso Stout	130	QLD
2. Andrew Clark	Wood-aged Belgian Golden Strong Ale	127	QLD
3. Cranston, Barry	Other Specialty	123	NSW
4. Dan Walker	Sour Raspberry Imperial Stout	121	VIC
5. Alex Russell	Oak matured stout	120	SA
6. Gavin Germon	Belgian Dark Strong Ale with Orval Brett	119	VIC
7. Ken Jermey	Forbidden fruit Belgian Specialty ale	117	SA
8. Nathan Fletcher	Spice/Herb/Vegetable Beer: Lavender Pale Ale	116	WA
9. Red Robin Brewery	Fruit Beer: Raspberry Wheat	115.5	WA
10. Ross Mitchell	Christmas/Winter Speciality Spiced Beer	113	ACT
11. Graeme Starke	Belgian Specialty Ale	111	QLD
12. Ian Traynor	Classic Rauchbier (Smoked Marzen)	100	ACT
13. Brian Fitzgerald	Fruit Beer: 2005 Brettanomyces Saison with Raspberries	96	WA
14. Craig Webber	Christmas/Winter Speciality Spiced Beer	95	ACT
15. Moss, Grant	Belgian Specialty Ale	95	NSW
16. Robin Brown	Raspberry Porter	92.5	VIC
17. Steve Court	Smoked Marzen	86	SA


----------



## Ross

Thanks Charlie,

Looking forward to the judging notes - going to have to lift my act before next year...

cheers Ross


----------



## matho

thanks for the swift posting of results i'm happy with 5th in apa

thanks to all who were involved for running such a good comp

can't wait for the score sheet

cheer's matho


----------



## dr K

top stuff
clearly australian brewers who wish to brew french specialty styles need to lift their game on saissons....perhaps the importers will note a blip in the sales of Dupont.

K


----------



## Bribie G

Thanks for that. Regarding the scores, what is meant by scores such as "122" or "88"... what are they scored out of?


----------



## bconnery

BribieG said:


> Thanks for that. Regarding the scores, what is meant by scores such as "122" or "88"... what are they scored out of?


150 Bribie...


----------



## dr K

t


> hanks for that. Regarding the scores, what is meant by scores such as "122" or "88"... what are they scored out of?



sort of explains the qld result !!
seriously, top comp, great beers from all over australia and best of all brewers from all over australia,...just making it to the nationals (whether in beer or person) justifies what so many do ...

K


----------



## ausdb

Fantastic work from the Sandgropers!!!!

Interesting to see how little difference there was between scores in our recent state comp and at the national level, the recent BJCP course we ran is already paying dividends. 
:icon_cheers:


----------



## Ragmans Coat

Congratulations to all. I would like to piss in some pockets but they all appear to be very full.


----------



## starkesbier

Hi everyone,

Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5  as an average of two judges in the QABC with comments like 

"Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!) "


to 91 as the sum of 3 judges (average of 30 per judge) in the AABC :unsure: ?

Is this a regional difference? Any input for next year would be appreciated.

Cheers
Starkesbier


----------



## PhilA

:icon_chickcheers: Congratulation's to everyone who placed 
Cheers Phil :icon_cheers:


----------



## dj1984

starkesbier said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5  as an average of two judges in the QABC with comments like
> 
> "Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!) "
> 
> 
> to 91 as the sum of 3 judges (average of 30 per judge) in the AABC :unsure: ?
> 
> Is this a regional difference? Any input for next year would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> Starkesbier



different judges.... My beer went from 3rd in SA to 2nd aus.


----------



## beersom

starkesbier said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5  as an average of two judges in the QABC with comments like
> 
> "Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!) "
> 
> 
> to 91 as the sum of 3 judges (average of 30 per judge) in the AABC :unsure: ?
> 
> Is this a regional difference? Any input for next year would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> Starkesbier



you must also remember that it is not the same bottle that has been judged.... things can and do happen to individual bottles
In the end it is always - the beer on the day and the judge on the day. But most likely and nearly always -The beer on the day.

Congrats to all.


----------



## bconnery

starkesbier said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5  as an average of two judges in the QABC with comments like
> 
> "Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!) "
> 
> 
> to 91 as the sum of 3 judges (average of 30 per judge) in the AABC :unsure: ?
> 
> Is this a regional difference? Any input for next year would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> Starkesbier



As said the bottle of beer being judged is different as well as the judges. Judging shouldn't account for such a big difference but it can go someway. 
Until you get the scoresheets to compare the comments there is no real meaningful answer though, just hints and opinions...


----------



## kabooby

As already mentioned, it's not the same beer. The beer that goes to the Nationals is at least a month older and travelled interstate. A lot can happen to a beer in a month.

Kabooby


----------



## browndog

starkesbier said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5  as an average of two judges in the QABC with comments like
> 
> "Just finished judging strong lagers and farmhouse ales. Awesome line-up, congratulations on all entries, there were some awesome beers! standard seemed to be well up on last years! (Who brewed the top scoring saison? it was exceptional!) "
> 
> 
> to 91 as the sum of 3 judges (average of 30 per judge) in the AABC :unsure: ?
> 
> Is this a regional difference? Any input for next year would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> Starkesbier




Because HB comps are a mugs game Starkie  

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Bribie G

As mentioned above, a lot can happen to a beer in a month. My stout in the Brisbane Stout mini comp in June (??) was judged 'mouth puckeringly bad' but won a third place in the BABBs comp and ended up a tasty drop after a couple of months. The mild that took out first in the low alc in QABC still got fifth place in the Nats but I knew in my heart of hearts that it was just 'over the hill'. I had brewed another one but it turned out disappointing so I had no choice but to put the 'old' bottle in the Nats. I'll be more on the ball next year.
It was my own lazy fault because I had let myself run out of Carafa so I subbed roast barley, pitched the wort onto a yeastcake from a bitter..... like I PMd someone "Into detention and write 500 lines: I will not do mad experiments three weeks before a competition, I will not do mad experiments......." :lol: :lol:


----------



## samhighley

starkesbier said:


> Not wanting to sound like sour grapes, I am merely looking for opinion, how does a beer go from 1st with 43.5  as an average of two judges in the QABC



As others have stated, it's just the way things go sometimes. My two beers that qualified inverted between the ACT qualifiers and the nationals:



ACT results said:


> Sam Highley	Kolsch	96.0
> Sam Highley	Dusseldorfer Altbier	120.0





AABC results said:


> Sam Highley	Kolsch	115.5	ACT
> Sam Highley	Dusseldorfer Altbier	103	ACT



Weird! I expected the Kolsch to get smashed at the AABC as it was the lowest scoring qualifier from the ACT comp to go through, and it'd be 3-4 weeks older.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

browndog said:


> Because HB comps are a mugs game Starkie
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog




Cynically correct BD but I wouldn't want to discourage a brewer from entering competitions. Gambling also is a mugs game but a lot of people get their employment and pleasure from it. Following the Dragons is for mugs too, but we still do it !

Different people aim for different outcomes when entering beers in competitions. I entered my first competitions this year, the same beer scored 125.5 at state level and 100 in the nationals. Different judges. I reckon the beer was a good one anyway, maybe the national judges just didn't like that style as much as the state judges. I'll await the tasting notes from both and decide if I lost points for a problem I can correct. 

Better luck next time to all my fellow losers ! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Bribie G

Yes, just thinking about the UK modern Summer ale I put in, 





In the State it got the equivalent of 114, in the Nats it got 88. It was brewed to BJCP guidelines 'can be very pale yellow' etc, and showed a lot of background bitterness from Target hops.
In the State comp, it no doubt struck the judges on the day as a novel and adventurous interpretation of English bitter however in the Nats I'm looking forward to the scoresheets... probably something along the lines of "WTF is this stuff supposed to be :huh: "

:lol: :lol:


----------



## starkesbier

Thank for all the input. 

I guess I'll wait for the judges feedback and have another crack next year :icon_cheers: .


----------



## bconnery

BribieG said:


> Yes, just thinking about the UK modern Summer ale I put in,
> 
> View attachment 32376
> 
> 
> In the State it got the equivalent of 144, in the Nats it got 88. It was brewed to BJCP guidelines 'can be very pale yellow' etc, and showed a lot of background bitterness from Target hops.
> In the State comp, it no doubt struck the judges on the day as a novel and adventurous interpretation of English bitter however in the Nats I'm looking forward to the scoresheets... probably something along the lines of "WTF is this stuff supposed to be :huh: "
> 
> :lol: :lol:


But did you brew it to BJCP or AABC guidelines? Remembering that they aren't the same in all areas, particularly when it comes to English beers...


----------



## Fatgodzilla

I like the jugs and glasses you Qlders use at your state champions BG !


And without sounding too patronising or demeaning, the larger number of well credentialled interstate judges at national level should mean a better standard of judging than at state level. It still doesn't eliminate judges bias or style preference, but I reckon it does mean your beer does get a fair judging.


----------



## Bribie G

bconnery said:


> But did you brew it to BJCP or AABC guidelines? Remembering that they aren't the same in all areas, particularly when it comes to English beers...



Yes that could be a trap for new players. More groundwork next year, for sure. As you say, low alc in the State was >3.5% ABV, low alc in the Nats as from this year is >4.0% ABV - that's just one example.


----------



## Maple

BribieG said:


> Yes that could be a trap for new players. More groundwork next year, for sure. As you say, low alc in the State was >3.5% ABV, low alc in the Nats as from this year is >4.0% ABV - that's just one example.


Wouldn't state level and Nats both be judged on AABC guidlines? I'm pretty sure VICBrew was AABC and not BJCP.


----------



## ausdb

Maple said:


> Wouldn't state level and Nats both be judged on AABC guidlines? I'm pretty sure VICBrew was AABC and not BJCP.


It depends on each state, WA was BJCP


----------



## Andyd

The styleguides used for Nats are indeed AABA (we used BJCP scoresheets, which may cause some confusion).

I'm keen to see some form of uniformity between the Nationals and state competitions, to make sure that (a) everyone's getting there via the same criteria; and (B) that everyone entering has the same expectations with respect to the way their beers are evaluated.

Cheers!


----------



## jayse

Welldone everyone, I had a wonderull few days and don't know where to start when it comes to thanking everyone I better not start naming names incase I miss someone or get names wrong but everyone knows who they are from the organisers and helpers to the judges, stewards, clubs, visitors , venues, hosts and so forth.
I did start posting a individual thanks but halfway through it was starting to read like a novel already.

I see my antics have already been mentioned but since every other state is well presented and us from S.A had only the three of us i thought I best make enough noise to make up for it :lol: there is that plus I was having more fun than a pig in shit.


I don't think anyone should read too much into how beers at state level seem to get opposite results at the aabc and just accept that it happens. I'd almost agree in the comment it is a mugs game to a degree.

I have to say the standard of beer I was expecting to be awesome but the standard was even above my expectations in most cases the beers were sublime.

The bar is well and truelly been set now for nationals starting last year with this not just being the judging of the nats but it is also the premier home brewing event.


----------



## Paul H

jayse said:


> Welldone everyone, I had a wonderull few days and don't know where to start when it comes to thanking everyone I better not start naming names incase I miss someone or get names wrong but everyone knows who they are from the organisers and helpers to the judges, stewards, clubs, visitors , venues, hosts and so forth.
> I did start posting a individual thanks but halfway through it was starting to read like a novel already.
> 
> I see my antics have already been mentioned but since every other state is well presented and us from S.A had only the three of us i thought I best make enough noise to make up for it :lol: there is that plus I was having more fun than a pig in shit.
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone should read too much into how beers at state level seem to get opposite results at the aabc and just accept that it happens. I'd almost agree in the comment it is a mugs game to a degree.
> 
> I have to say the standard of beer I was expecting to be awesome but the standard was even above my expectations in most cases the beers were sublime.
> 
> The bar is well and truelly been set now for nationals starting last year with this not just being the judging of the nats but it is also the premier home brewing event.



It was great meeting you too motherf%$ker :beerbang: 

Cheers

Paul


----------



## Ross

Had a great time... Fantastically run event - Well done Canberra....See you all in Melbourne next year  


The serious side 




The fun side.... Stillscottish on the pipes, Jayse doing what Jayse does  





Cheers Ross


----------



## churchy

Only been AG brewing for a year and two top ten entries from first time entering the competition, can't complain.Thanks to the judges and sponsers.





Andrew


----------



## kook

ausdb said:


> It depends on each state, WA was BJCP



WA was AABC not BJCP


----------



## matho

i think and i could be wrong but the judge's aren't going to give a prefect score so the top is going to be 130'ish then all the other beers have to fit under that so no doubt that the best beer got the top then the rest just fell in order.

just a drunken thought :icon_cheers: 

cheer's matho


----------



## dr K

There should be no cofusion about catergories and styles.
Thee AABC comp runs on the guidlines developed by the AABC.The AABC consists of two delegates from each State or Territory that the AABC accepts as part of the AABC. these delegates should communicate to the constituents of their State or Territory what those guidlines are, but regardless, the guidlines are up on the aabc website so any organisers wanting entry for their club or state should at a minimum make themselves familiar with the rules, styles and categories.
One's personal opine to catergorisation of styles (say BJCP vs AABC) ought not be bought to entry, for surely entry or otherwise is dependant on the organisers and not the possible entrants.
K


----------



## Andyd

matho said:


> i think and i could be wrong but the judge's aren't going to give a prefect score so the top is going to be 130'ish then all the other beers have to fit under that so no doubt that the best beer got the top then the rest just fell in order.
> 
> just a drunken thought :icon_cheers:
> 
> cheer's matho



[random stream of consciousness follows...]

Whilst not always the case, most judges these days try to judge a beer on it's own merits, and if it's a great beer then it gets the mark it deserves.

Ross Mitchell did a particularly good job as Head Judge this year, stating at the commencement of each flight that people should not be afraid of giving a good beer a score in the 40's. This really set the scene, and we did see quite a few beers rate in that range - as you might expect in a second tier competition.

My bug-bear when it comes to judging is when judges won't give the first beers in a flight a high mark, even if they do deserve it. The thought proces is that something better might come along, in which case they have nowhere to go score-wise. I disagree. Judges really should be aiming to be able to identify and grade a great beer wherever it might appear in a flight. Anything else just introduces a level of subjectivity into the process, and people have gone to considerable effort over the years to create a set of styleguides that allows judging on an objective basis to take place.

Overall the standard of judging is increasing, which is really good to see since the hobby is also increasing. I know we had record numbers this year in Victoria, and other states had large numbers of entries too. It's a great sign for the hobby, and this years event only emphasised that we really are a brewing community.

Andy


----------



## ausdb

kook said:


> WA was AABC not BJCP


Sorry Kook got confused seeing all the BJCP judging sheets, so WA was the same as the Nationals maybe thats why we did so well


----------



## kook

ausdb said:


> Sorry Kook got confused seeing all the BJCP judging sheets, so WA was the same as the Nationals maybe thats why we did so well



I can see how - we used a lot of BJCP material on the day such as BJCP judging guides, BJCP judge feedback forms etc. 

The style guidelines used (and referenced on the website and entry pack) were AABC (2009 revision). These were also available to the judges printed on the day.

The score sheets were BJCP sheets. I personally think that this is a better laid out score sheet with more room for the judge to provide feedback. The ones we used 2007/2008 are good, but don't have quite as much room on them for notes, nor as complex descriptors.


----------



## Stagger

Just a quick update, 
After a very successful 2009 AABC I have had to do some real work to catch-up. I will be sending the remainder of the trophies out hopefully next week, so hang tight. 

I would like to send a warm thank you to all that attended the event in Canberra and hope you all had a great time (especially to the WA crew who made a extra effort). 

See you all in Melbourne next year.

Cheers & Beers

Craig


----------



## Brauhaus007

Well done to everyone involved from the state & nationals. I entered the SABSOSA in 2007 with some kits & bits scored a second with a FES. Then got more into brewing broke the budget and bought a Mash Pilot System from Beerbelly. Did`nt enter any comps in 2008, enterd 6beers in 2009 SABSOSA for 2 first & 2second places. Entered those in the AABC scored 2 firsts a 4th & a 6th place. So I am as happy as a pig in s**t. I khow there are always some annomolies whith judgung but the feedback really helps. So thanks again to everyone involved :beer: 


Now drinking
BelgianStrong Ale 7.5%
A.P.A 5.2%
I.P.A 7.2%
E.S.B 5.7%
Old Strong Ale 6.8%
F.E.S 6.0%


----------



## megs80

Hey all,

Great works to the guys in Canberra and to the winning brewers.

Can anyone tell me when I should expect my score sheets in the mail. There was 44.5 points difference in my state score and nationals score. I need to know what went wrong.

Cheers


----------



## dj1984

still waiting for mine too.


----------



## dr K

megs80, and other who quite rightly express concerns at score variations.
chances are nothing went wrong, the overall standard of judging in australia is far higher now than it was say 6 years ago, and the standard of judges at the recent AABC was possibly the highest ever assembled in Australia.
Judges are not gods, nor brewers prodigies.
Let us take take the case of the perfect machine, the electronic judge that has no fatigue and an equally perfect pallete and nose.
Our machine scores a beer at 35, the two other judges are equal at 30, all within range and a score of 95.
Equally the other two may have hit 40, again within range but the score is now 115.
Now at the Nationals the same beer is being judged, but without our machine, I will however intoduce the rider that the national judges were able to be within 5 points of the perfect machines score, they are, like the beers entered, pre-qualfied.
Regardless, we now have a range of 30 points, and that is without even considering bottle variations, serving variations or a rouge judge.
To have got to the Nats at all is a huge thing, and something to be justisfiably proud about, is a runner in the Melbourne Cup to be diminished by it's failure to win,or even place, perhaps, but it ran, and at the starters call had an equal chance.

k


----------



## browndog

dr K said:


> megs80, and other who quite rightly express concerns at score variations.
> chances are nothing went wrong, the overall standard of judging in australia is far higher now than it was say 6 years ago, and the standard of judges at the recent AABC was possibly the highest ever assembled in Australia.
> Judges are not gods, nor brewers prodigies.
> Let us take take the case of the perfect machine, the electronic judge that has no fatigue and an equally perfect pallete and nose.
> Our machine scores a beer at 35, the two other judges are equal at 30, all within range and a score of 95.
> Equally the other two may have hit 40, again within range but the score is now 115.
> Now at the Nationals the same beer is being judged, but without our machine, I will however intoduce the rider that the national judges were able to be within 5 points of the perfect machines score, they are, like the beers entered, pre-qualfied.
> Regardless, we now have a range of 30 points, and that is without even considering bottle variations, serving variations or a rouge judge.
> To have got to the Nats at all is a huge thing, and something to be justisfiably proud about, is a runner in the Melbourne Cup to be diminished by it's failure to win,or even place, perhaps, but it ran, and at the starters call had an equal chance.
> 
> k




Nice analogy there Dr K, I was happy to be a runner.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Bribie G

Yes great to be in the middle of the field with one of my brews and fifth 'place' with another. We won't even mention the third beer h34r: You don't expect to win the London Marathon at your first attempt unless you are a total dreamer :icon_cheers:


----------



## jayse

44.5 points is quite large that likely would be there was a cockroach in that perticular bottle :unsure:
Pulling cockroach legs out of your teeth is never good when judging <_<


----------



## kabooby

jayse said:


> 44.5 points is quite large that likely would be there was a cockroach in that perticular bottle :unsure:
> Pulling cockroach legs out of your teeth is never good when judging <_<



Unless that beer was in the specialty cat as a cockroach beer :icon_vomit: 

Kabooby :icon_cheers:


----------



## megs80

dr K said:


> megs80, and other who quite rightly express concerns at score variations.
> chances are nothing went wrong, the overall standard of judging in australia is far higher now than it was say 6 years ago, and the standard of judges at the recent AABC was possibly the highest ever assembled in Australia.
> Judges are not gods, nor brewers prodigies.
> Let us take take the case of the perfect machine, the electronic judge that has no fatigue and an equally perfect pallete and nose.
> Our machine scores a beer at 35, the two other judges are equal at 30, all within range and a score of 95.
> Equally the other two may have hit 40, again within range but the score is now 115.
> Now at the Nationals the same beer is being judged, but without our machine, I will however intoduce the rider that the national judges were able to be within 5 points of the perfect machines score, they are, like the beers entered, pre-qualfied.
> Regardless, we now have a range of 30 points, and that is without even considering bottle variations, serving variations or a rouge judge.
> To have got to the Nats at all is a huge thing, and something to be justisfiably proud about, is a runner in the Melbourne Cup to be diminished by it's failure to win,or even place, perhaps, but it ran, and at the starters call had an equal chance.
> 
> k



I dont think that there was anything wrong with the comp. From what I hear it was pretty well done. Im just interested to get my sheets back. A score in the low 20s suggests a possible infection.

Cheers


----------



## Andyd

Megs,

I'm not sure what you entered, but we had a couple of beers that had minor infections, and one that was astoundingly infected. Unfortunately that can happen to the best brewers from time to time (i.e. a single bottle in a batch becoming infected and being the one that's presented to competition). 

To overcome this I know guys who will send in two stubbies instead of a long neck, so that if one is no good the other can be called in by the judges...

Regards,

Andy


----------



## Ross

Back to the earlier question...

Is there an anticipated mailing date for the score sheets? No rush, would just like to know when to expect  


Cheers Ross


----------



## megs80

Andyd said:


> Megs,
> 
> I'm not sure what you entered, but we had a couple of beers that had minor infections, and one that was astoundingly infected. Unfortunately that can happen to the best brewers from time to time (i.e. a single bottle in a batch becoming infected and being the one that's presented to competition).
> 
> To overcome this I know guys who will send in two stubbies instead of a long neck, so that if one is no good the other can be called in by the judges...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andy



Hey Andy,

I entered a bock. Thats good advice on the two bottles. As it turned out I had to send two as I bottle in 500ml bottles

Cheers


----------



## Andyd

megs80 said:


> Hey Andy,
> 
> I entered a bock. Thats good advice on the two bottles. As it turned out I had to send two as I bottle in 500ml bottles
> 
> Cheers



In that case the judges would have called in the second bottle if they thought it was infected - I suppose you would have been extremely unlucky 

I'd love to hear the feedback when you get it in...

Regards,

Andy


----------



## Maxt

The other big variable is the transportation to the nats. Can you be certain it didn't sit in a hot postal van for ages, or in a sunny spot?
(Caveot) Knowing the fastidious nature of the comp organiser and head steward, I know that once arrived in the ACT, the beers would have treated like the precious cargo they were...straight to the pool room, I mean _coolroom_.


----------



## haysie

Set me straight someone, if i send 2 bottles BOTH are poured/presented? I have never heard of judges asking for the second stubbie that wasnt poured, i see this as some sought of unfair advantage i.e enter 2 beers (stubbies) under one entry.

The point spread between state and nationals is crazy. Echo, Mugs game.


----------



## Bribie G

How did you go in the various comps this year, Haysie? :icon_cheers:


----------



## haysie

BribieG said:


> How did you go in the various comps this year, Haysie? :icon_cheers:



For mine, I held my own. Whats the ?
Referring to a 121 state verse a 87 nat`s. Its not transport, its >>>>>>>

BribieG , if there was some under lying smartarse referral, I missed it. Nevertheless, its not the thread to throw mud.


edit11, i have never met a judge whom would want "seconds" from an infected sour beer."grab the other it maybe better" was the suggestion? 
Could not work.


----------



## Bribie G

Polite query from a fellow brewer. I had a place with a summer ale in the State and it came last in the Nats :unsure: 
However I'm hanging for the comments as I think I know what the problem was, because I subbed a bittering hop and went a bit berserk with it. I agree with you that the 'second stubbie' sounds ridiculous, first I've heard of it and if this is an option then it should be clearly publicised at the next National comp.


----------



## beers

BribieG said:


> I agree with you that the 'second stubbie' sounds ridiculous, first I've heard of it and if this is an option then it should be clearly publicised at the next National comp.



I thought I read something about it this year? along with the 500ml minimum requirements.

Personally I think bottles with a larger volume keep more stable. I recall when I used to bottle that stubbies carbed up & matured faster than tallies... well to my tastes anyways.


----------



## bradsbrew

Well I had 2 beers in and got better scores with both of them. I am guessing that serving temp was the thing that changed the judging. Beers where stouts and also a month older , perhaps that helped also. As for the transporting side of things , I sent 2 glass tallies in the post so they were well packed, ...bubble wrap-cardboard -polo shirts-box, perhaps that would have also helped with any heat issues. Is it a noticable thing that the host city has the majority winners/better performance??? I dont know I havnt looked into that much.

The judging sheets are most anticipated though. What do you get for a place,,,, certificate??


Brad


----------



## Andyd

Agreed - bigger bottles are better from a management and (probably) endurance perspective. Just reporting on what I've observed over the years. I've never seen both bottles "blended" though (equally, I don't recall beers being called back except at this years nationals).

On many occasions if these's a beer that has been deemed "infected" some judges will ask if there was a second bottle, but it rarely turns out to be the case.

Nothing unfair about it really - it's the same beer (sans a possible point infection), and if the first is infected there's a good chance a "re-pour" will be tainted by the impressions of the first...

Andy


----------



## Maxt

Haysie, if you entered 2 beers, only one will be opened. The other stays as a back up. I have been in flights that recalled beers, in fact this year we recalled 4 beers in one flight (to sort out 1st-4th).

As for your answer, yes it's disappointing when your beer does not as well as at the state comp, perhaps the standard of judging was higher at the Nats?
As the good doc mentioned, to make it that far means you have placed in your state comp, and unless it was in a style with little competition, you brewed a good beer.

Haysie if it upsets you too much, then your right it's a mug's game and perhaps comps are not for you.


----------



## bigfridge

haysie said:


> edit11, i have never met a judge whom would want "seconds" from an infected sour beer."grab the other it maybe better" was the suggestion?
> Could not work.



OTOH, I have never met a trained judge that does not want to give the best feedback possible so would say 'this would seem to be a bad bottle - is there a 2nd bottle abailable'. The judges should not see the bottle so they wouldn't know if the beer same out of a stubby or longneck or even a keg.

Standard practice in most comps that run under the BJCP guidelines.

I have seen a situation where an American IPA was dry-hopped in the bottle - the first picked up a bug but the second was sublime.


Dave


----------



## Guest Lurker

bigfridge said:


> I have seen a situation where an American IPA was dry-hopped in the bottle - the first picked up a bug but the second was sublime.
> 
> 
> Dave



Interesting question. If you submit an infected and a sublime beer, do you deserve the score for the sublime one? Both were in theory representative of your brewing practices. I guess I can agree the higher score should prevail.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Most of these posts are subjective.It comes down to the "Best beer" on the day scores higher weather judged by amateurs or well trained judges.You have to be happy with what scores you received.I can agree that there is an over all home state advantage when it comes to national comps but that's to be expected.
GB


----------



## beers

I'm stoked with my equal 2nd last in the Strong Ale Cat... Rock on :beerbang:


----------



## Maxt

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I can agree that there is an over all home state advantage when it comes to national comps but that's to be expected.
> GB



The advantage could only be that the home state gets their beers to the venue easier. Judges don't know who's beers they are judging, and from which state they originate.


----------



## homekegger1

There is no use being offended by your result. End of the day, someone has to come last in the nationals, who placed in a state comp. FACT of life. As for being a major difference between scores at State level and national, one needs to realise that each bottle is different, time between comps is different, and the judges are different. Obviously the major factor here is difference. 

You place in state level, Well done, bragging rights. You bomb out in Nationals, no need to get upset, wait till the judging sheets are received, take on board their comments and hope for a better result next time.

Remember, at state level the judges may not be as qualified as what they are at National level. So you are going to end up with differences.

Again, it is a different set of circumstances that judge each comp. Not a radar gun, not a calibrated computer, but *DIFFERENT* people. 

If this upsets you in anyway, then you need to decide whether you really wanted feedback on your beers or if you had the small mind to think you were better than everyone else. Take it on the chin, suck it up, learn from it, and come back next year swinging with a much better effort.

That's what I did, last year was bottom of the run in State, this year, one got through and then was "Lucky" enough to do well in Nationals. 

My 2c

Cheers

HK


----------



## haysie

Maxt said:


> Haysie, if you entered 2 beers, only one will be opened. The other stays as a back up. I have been in flights that recalled beers, in fact this year we recalled 4 beers in one flight (to sort out 1st-4th).
> 
> As for your answer, yes it's disappointing when your beer does not as well as at the state comp, perhaps the standard of judging was higher at the Nats?
> As the good doc mentioned, to make it that far means you have placed in your state comp, and unless it was in a style with little competition, you brewed a good beer.
> 
> Haysie if it upsets you too much, then your right it's a mug's game and perhaps comps are not for you.



Max. so why enter 2 beers? I miss your point, I thought it was a minimum 500 yada yada and thats it, no recalling "new" bottles.
The upset thing is pretty lame mate, whom gives you the call or anyone state judges are better then nats? vice versa.
I stick by mugs game when so many differences appear. Hey, I`ll still support it.
Cheers
Haysie


----------



## Darren

Maxt said:


> The advantage could only be that the home state gets their beers to the venue easier. Judges don't know who's beers they are judging, and from which state they originate.




Max,

The home state advantage probably comes from the fact that most of the judges (within a state) sample each others beers. Familiarity with a beer flavour (that a judge may have liked previously) could possibly skew an unbiased assessment.

Other effects such as water profile would almost certainly alter perception of a beer.

cheers

Darren


----------



## megs80

homekegger1 said:


> There is no use being offended by your result. End of the day, someone has to come last in the nationals, who placed in a state comp. FACT of life. As for being a major difference between scores at State level and national, one needs to realise that each bottle is different, time between comps is different, and the judges are different. Obviously the major factor here is difference.
> 
> You place in state level, Well done, bragging rights. You bomb out in Nationals, no need to get upset, wait till the judging sheets are received, take on board their comments and hope for a better result next time.
> 
> Remember, at state level the judges may not be as qualified as what they are at National level. So you are going to end up with differences.
> 
> Again, it is a different set of circumstances that judge each comp. Not a radar gun, not a calibrated computer, but *DIFFERENT* people.
> 
> If this upsets you in anyway, then you need to decide whether you really wanted feedback on your beers or if you had the small mind to think you were better than everyone else. Take it on the chin, suck it up, learn from it, and come back next year swinging with a much better effort.
> 
> That's what I did, last year was bottom of the run in State, this year, one got through and then was "Lucky" enough to do well in Nationals.
> 
> My 2c
> 
> Cheers
> 
> HK




HK
I agree. Making the nationals means you have had six trained judges give feedback to one of your beers. Youve gotta be happy with that.

Cheers


----------



## Maxt

Darren said:


> Max,
> 
> The home state advantage probably comes from the fact that most of the judges (within a state) sample each others beers. Familiarity with a beer flavour (that a judge may have liked previously) could possibly skew an unbiased assessment.
> 
> Other effects such as water profile would almost certainly alter perception of a beer.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



Is this a troll or are your presenting this as serious?? You really believe most judges within a state sample every member's beers? Really? So in Vicbrew, for example, the tens if not hundreds of beers entered through the various clubs, in the 18 main categories and further sub catagories, would be sampled by most of the judges. Too funny. :icon_cheers: 

For your assumption to be true, it would hinge on the same judges judging the same flight in both state and Nats (and being able to remember weeks later exactly the profile of that beer compared to the others in the flight).
This year at the nats there were at least 1 and sometimes 2 interstate judges in each flight, and remember the judges independantly score and then need to be within 5 pts.
Darren, your dreamin'.


----------



## samhighley

Darren said:


> The home state advantage probably comes from the fact that most of the judges (within a state) sample each others beers. Familiarity with a beer flavour (that a judge may have liked previously) could possibly skew an unbiased assessment.



What a load of bollocks. Judges at the nationals typically come from all parts of Australia.


----------



## haysie

Sammy said:


> What a load of bollocks. Judges at the nationals typically come from all parts of Australia.



You dont say hey! Read the thread and inpart some sort of pro`s or con`s comment.
If you bypass post`s like yours, theres a general hype of the nat`s dont get it right every time, boo hoo thats life.
Still its worth sharing.


----------



## Darren

Sammy said:


> What a load of bollocks. Judges at the nationals typically come from all parts of Australia.




I probably missed it but was a final score sheet posted?

cheers

Darren


----------



## Bribie G

Darren said:


> I probably missed it but was a final score sheet posted?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



Yes you missed it


----------



## Andyd

> If you bypass post`s like yours, theres a general hype of the nat`s dont get it right every time, boo hoo thats life.



I don't know that anyone ever gets it "right" per se. From my experience with international sports, you can only "get it right" if there is an acknowledged, accepted and utilised set of protocols to run the competition. 

At the moment I think we're still working to get things to a point that you could write those protocols. For example, in Melbourne last year there was a general feeling that having the stewards milling around the central table tasting talking about the beers while they were still being judged was not condusive to the judging process. This year in Canberra the judges were instructed to not discuss anything with the judges and were not able to taste the beers - many thought this was also not optimal, this time because it provided no opportunity for stewards to improve their skills as judges. I think that somewhere in between there may be an "ideal" experience.

The real problem though, i that there is very little in the way of rigour when it comes to capturing information about what works and what doesn't. At present the competitions are organised be individual clubs or state bodies and while a lot of work goes into the planning and execution of the events, significantly less effort goes into capturing information about how the event ran. When I mentioned this to the Canberra crew the response was less than enthusiastic - and understandably so too. After the conference last year we had trouble finding the energy to do any of the follow up activities (something we're getting batter at now).

None-the-less, the after-event organisation and documentation is just as, if not even more important than anything that comes in the lead-up to an event, particularly if you intend to improve in subsequent events.

So... I might actually start up another thread for this purpose. If you have any feedback on what you thought went well or did not at the AABC this year, post it there - I'll start collating it into a living document we can use to either maintain consistency or even improve future events.

Andy


----------



## ausdb

Although I don't know how many judges there were at the Nats this year I do know there were a few from WA all of which are BJCP certified or have completed the exams and are in the process of being certified, there were also at least two National BJCP judges so there has to be a reasonable level of calibration of judges and palates. Judges also came from other states so the local bias theory is a bit shaky.

Homeground advantage? many of the WA entries went over refrigerated to eliminate the possibility of poor handling in transit, mine didn't and went priority freight the week before close of entries and didn't fare any worse. I am not unhappy with my scores as I know there were things I could have done better with all of my entries but I know that to have made it to the nationals and placed so my brewing practices are sound and I don't make a bad beer, which is what is most important.

A crap load of effort with very little reward apart from "intrinsic satisfaction" goes into the planning and running of a major competition, I have been involved in a few at the state level so to the dissenter's and those that thought they were hard done by HTFU and cop it on the chin. Wait for your score sheets to see what the judges really thought and if you want to change things then make some effort of your own to take part in the judging/comp system and change it from within.


----------



## homekegger1

Just wondering if anyone else has received feedback sheets/Trophies.

Cheers

HK


----------



## Bribie G

Ausdb sounds like a bloke such as myself who has sent beers interstate on several occasions. If they are packed properly - and don't even need to be send express - then your precious beer will arrive in perfect nick, and probably no worse than where you keep your crates in the Garage. I doubt if Aus Post deliberately drop the parcels from 10m and leave in the sun for two days. I get proculture yeast from Perth _cold_ so quite happy to consign my beers to Aus Post. 

The home ground advantage could hypothetically happen if all the judges were from the ACT and were accustomed to a certain 'dialect' of beer that could arise in a geographical enclave - however it's up to members in other states to do the BJCP training and get asses down to the Nationals, as many now do.


----------



## GMK

Hi All,

Now this is not a gripe but an observation and only my 2C worth.

As Vic Brew and ACT - can't find the date for WA when entries closed - hold their state championships in Oct 3-4.
The beers that are made to peak then - so that you get a top 3 place and can enter nationals - only have 3-4 weeks until rejudged.

SA & QABC are held in Sep with entries closing late Aug/early Sep.
Again - beers designed to peak then for placings have to wait 6 + weeks until being rejudged at the Nationals.
The beers can change alot in that time and be heading downwards. So the beers judged at the Nationals could/will be different.

This could be alleviated by all state comps being held at the same time...

Only a suggestion - happy to see if others think it has merit...

Flame Suit On....Waiting for the Meerkats - I can hear them circling.....


----------



## dr K

You know what I do when I am bored to almost distraction..I read threads like this one.
This thread overall is pretty positive, it recognises that one comp will vary from another, and hey, good luck.
The problem that the negative persons have is that they blur the line between objective and subjective and perhaps with some reason.
The BJCP guidlines are at first pass subjective, but their wide acceptance makes them, certainly for the point of competions, objective. So in a comp we have three judges, (the eternal triangle perhaps) subjectively judging beers based on their own sensory evaluation, which will vary from the amount of training and practical experience, in particular with tasting commercially available examples of the style against (accepted) objective guidelines, which if you read and understand them are pretty flexible.
The whole point of a comp such as the Nats is to adjugde the standard of a beer compared to the style guidlines under which it has been entered, without stating the obvious, well perhaps I should, a 133 point dark lager ain't, or certainly should not, do as well were it entered as a Southern English Brown.
A rose by any other name indeed.

K


----------



## RussTaylor

GMK said:


> Hi All,
> 
> SA & QABC are held in Sep with entries closing late Aug/early Sep.
> Again - beers designed to peak then for placings have to wait 6 + weeks until being rejudged at the Nationals.
> The beers can change alot in that time and be heading downwards. So the beers judged at the Nationals could/will be different.



I agree with this point. I didn't bother entering my two qualifying beers as they'd started their decline and didn't have time to brew another.

A date that doesn't clash with ANAWBS would be nice too...but that's probably more of a State clash than National.


----------



## The Ginger Bread Man

doesn't HB improve with age?


----------



## Bribie G

GMK said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Now this is not a gripe but an observation and only my 2C worth.
> 
> As Vic Brew and ACT - can't find the date for WA when entries closed - hold their state championships in Oct 3-4.
> The beers that are made to peak then - so that you get a top 3 place and can enter nationals - only have 3-4 weeks until rejudged.
> 
> SA & QABC are held in Sep with entries closing late Aug/early Sep.
> Again - beers designed to peak then for placings have to wait 6 + weeks until being rejudged at the Nationals.
> The beers can change alot in that time and be heading downwards. So the beers judged at the Nationals could/will be different.
> 
> This could be alleviated by all state comps being held at the same time...
> 
> Only a suggestion - happy to see if others think it has merit...
> 
> Flame Suit On....Waiting for the Meerkats - I can hear them circling.....



Yes, my UK Mild took first in its class in the State. I brewed another one for the Nats but it wasn't up to standard so I entered the State brew in the Nats. It got fifth place, which I'm not whingeing about - however it was past its best. I agree that a coordinated approach at State level would be good. 




The Ginger Bread Man said:


> doesn't HB improve with age?



Don't wish to sound patronising here, GBM - That's like asking "are dogs all good at retrieving ducks ?". When you have brewed a range of beers you will appreciate that they all have their own life cycles according to style. Some, like UK bitters and Milds are meant to leave the brewery and be drunk fresh within a few weeks, others need to be aged like fine wines. Edit: Also your use of the term "HB" suggests that it still hasn't sunk in that home brew is actually just beer - of various styles - that is crafted in home breweries as opposed to commercial plant.


----------



## dr K

> This could be alleviated by all state comps being held at the same time...



Kenny
What a great idea but surely it is up to the individual states to pick their dates and not the AABC hosts, surely the individual states will know (from their AABC delegates) when the Nats are on, furthermore a decent brewer, knowing both the dates of the states and the Nats can make a decision as to when they brew and whether, if required, when they need to re-brew. Sorry, but there seems to be a few excuses and even possible accusations joining this story.
The AABC consists of two delegates from each state, their duty is to represent those states concensi, report such to the AABC and then transmit this back to those in the state who are interested.
If anyone has a problem with the AABC then they should contact their state delegates, and if they do not know who they are, then, dare I say, ask.

K


----------



## AndrewQLD

Why do people think that just because they did well in a state comp they should automatically do as well in the National comp?
And why is it, when they don't do as well they feel the need to question the running of the competitions and the judging and not their own brewing practices and organisation.

It is fairly common knowledge when these competitions are held and if your serious about entering you should be planning six months in advance what you will be entering.
Start brewing your higher/bigger beers first, bottle, allow a couple of weeks to carb and then store in a fridge until the competition. Work your way down as the weeks progress to your lighter styles all the while storing in the fridge after they have carbed.
Works very well and you'll find they mature and blend better than a young bottled beer or an aged beer left at room temp.

Andrew

Edit: My slow typing has left me behind here but DrK, as always some common sense.


----------



## Darren

BribieG said:


> Yes you missed it




And the judges state of origin?


----------



## rude

I must admit it would be nice to enter a beer & get first place.

Is that ego ?

HTFU is that drink concrete

Meanwhile Darrens niggling away

Everyones off Darren

Typical of forums I guess

If youre beer is good enough & the timing is right you will go close just like all sports 

Dedicate youreself & be a good sport about it shaking everyones hand after the game & who knows you may win a chocolate frog

h34r: suiting up here as I've had a couple & I luv a niggle


----------



## kenlock

> Hi All,
> 
> Now this is not a gripe but an observation and only my 2C worth.
> 
> As Vic Brew and ACT - can't find the date for WA when entries closed - hold their state championships in Oct 3-4.
> The beers that are made to peak then - so that you get a top 3 place and can enter nationals - only have 3-4 weeks until rejudged.
> 
> SA & QABC are held in Sep with entries closing late Aug/early Sep.
> Again - beers designed to peak then for placings have to wait 6 + weeks until being rejudged at the Nationals.
> The beers can change alot in that time and be heading downwards. So the beers judged at the Nationals could/will be different.
> 
> This could be alleviated by all state comps being held at the same time...
> 
> Only a suggestion - happy to see if others think it has merit...
> 
> Flame Suit On....Waiting for the Meerkats - I can hear them circling.....





AndrewQLD said:


> Why do people think that just because they did well in a state comp they should automatically do as well in the National comp?
> And why is it, when they don't do as well they feel the need to question the running of the competitions and the judging and not their own brewing practices and organisation.
> 
> It is fairly common knowledge when these competitions are held and if your serious about entering you should be planning six months in advance what you will be entering.
> Start brewing your higher/bigger beers first, bottle, allow a couple of weeks to carb and then store in a fridge until the competition. Work your way down as the weeks progress to your lighter styles all the while storing in the fridge after they have carbed.
> Works very well and you'll find they mature and blend better than a young bottled beer or an aged beer left at room temp.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> Edit: My slow typing has left me behind here but DrK, as always some common sense.



Putting these two thoughts together. 

Why wouldn't the State comps be held aroung April/May and the Nationals around Oct/Nov?

That way the brewer's qualify for Nationals, and then have time to prove their skill by reproducing (or bettering) their beer(s). Much like qualifying for the Olympics and then peaking for the day to win a medal. Thereby, each brewer from any state will be able to time their performance/beer to the day of judging.

Surely, a fair(er) for all! ??


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Maxt said:


> The advantage could only be that the home state gets their beers to the venue easier. Judges don't know who's beers they are judging, and from which state they originate.


Days in the post box ! I am behind in this post but its obvious if you dont have your beer in the post for 5 days its going to be in better shape .
GB


----------



## GMK

I quote Dr K here...

":a decent brewer, knowing both the dates of the states and the Nats can make a decision as to when they brew and whether, if required, when they need to re-brew. Sorry, but there seems to be a few excuses and even possible accusations joining this story."

Whilst I know Dr K personally and have a real regard for him both as a person and as a brewer and more importantly as a mate - perhaps he has missed my point.

While I agree that a good brewer knows when to rebrew - there amounts a few problems...
If you look back at least at the last 4 years of nationals - the Australian brewer who won came from a state that he dominated.
Anyone who can enter 12+ beers into the Nationals in allot of categories has a greater chance to win.
Ask them if the rebrewed any of their beers - can't see that many were rebrewed or had to be.
But if you dominate the state comp and it is held in Oct and the Nats in Late Oct - guess what - you don't have to rebrew 12+ beers - also - you don't have time to. .but in states that are held earlier - if you entered 12 + beers in the State comp - would you rebrew all of them in time to peak for the Nats just in case you got a top 3 place.

Therefore, by extrapalation - those states that host early have IMHO a disadvantage....

However, for ACT and the other states that have great brewers who enter 1-2 beers in almost every category and are so well rounded to get a placing in almost every category they enter - they do raise the bar for everyone else.

IMHO it would be better if all state comps were held at the same time.

As stated before - my 2c worth.


----------



## kook

GMK said:


> I quote Dr K here...
> 
> ":a decent brewer, knowing both the dates of the states and the Nats can make a decision as to when they brew and whether, if required, when they need to re-brew. Sorry, but there seems to be a few excuses and even possible accusations joining this story."
> 
> Whilst I know Dr K personally and have a real regard for him both as a person and as a brewer and more importantly as a mate - perhaps he has missed my point.
> 
> While I agree that a good brewer knows when to rebrew - there amounts a few problems...
> If you look back at least at the last 4 years of nationals - the Australian brewer who won came from a state that he dominated.
> Anyone who can enter 12+ beers into the Nationals in allot of categories has a greater chance to win.
> Ask them if the rebrewed any of their beers - can't see that many were rebrewed or had to be.
> But if you dominate the state comp and it is held in Oct and the Nats in Late Oct - guess what - you don't have to rebrew 12+ beers - also - you don't have time to. .but in states that are held earlier - if you entered 12 + beers in the State comp - would you rebrew all of them in time to peak for the Nats just in case you got a top 3 place.
> 
> Therefore, by extrapalation - those states that host early have IMHO a disadvantage....
> 
> However, for ACT and the other states that have great brewers who enter 1-2 beers in almost every category and are so well rounded to get a placing in almost every category they enter - they do raise the bar for everyone else.
> 
> IMHO it would be better if all state comps were held at the same time.
> 
> As stated before - my 2c worth.



GMK - one thing also worth considering is the time to prep / ship your beers for the nationals. Obviously this is not a problem if you are the hosting state - but for others it could be. Having them too close could mean that people miss entering due to entry deadlines / delivery times. There are still people out there who don't access these sites like AHB either. We had entries with no email address supplied (one of which qualified for the nationals). Sending results and entry forms for the nationals via snail mail further reduces the window of opportunity for postage.

Another point - is if all state comps are held at the same time - there is less chance of interstate judges. We were fortunate enough to have two interstate National ranked BJCP judges at WASABC this year. This wouldn't have been possible if the ACT and VIC comps were on - as they would have presumably been judging at their home competitions.

I can see where you are coming from though, it would be an advantage for fresh styles - but I think it could limit things a little more. 


Personally I think people are analysing the results in far too much depth. Judging is an inherently variable process to begin with - applying quantitative values to qualitative data. There is always going to be a difference of opinion between judges, everyone has their own palate and style guidelines are open to personal interpretation. I'd expect there to be a reasonable gap between the NHC first and second round scores too - it all comes down to luck, and averages. Look at the consistent winners in the US (Jamil et al) - they enter a phenomenal number of beers. If you're in it for the medals, enter more (good, drinkable) beers.


----------



## hazard

BribieG said:


> When you have brewed a range of beers you will appreciate that they all have their own life cycles according to style. Some, like UK bitters and Milds are meant to leave the brewery and be drunk fresh within a few weeks, others need to be aged like fine wines. Edit: Also your use of the term "HB" suggests that it still hasn't sunk in that home brew is actually just beer - of various styles - that is crafted in home breweries as opposed to commercial plant.


Well I disagree a bit here Bribie. Bottle conditioned home brew will behave differently to stuff made in a commercial plant. If its made in a commercial plant, then its usually filtered and CO2 pressurised, and can be drunk in weeks. I don't keg at all, but I do cold condition my ales to clear them before I bottle. It takes at least a month to carb up, so certainly can't be drunk in the same time line as a commercial brew, and I note in all my brews that they continue to improve with age. I've never kept a bottle longer than about 12 months so I don't know what the time limit is, but I've not noted any deterioration. Beer is just malt, hops, water and yeast. The ratios vary, but that will make one style "go off" in a couple of weeks when its in a bottle.
When you say that bitters and milds are meant to drunk within weeks, is that because they are drawn through a beer engine in the UK? In that case, then air is entering the cask, tghe beer is oxidising and it must be drunk quickly. Very differrent to bottled conditioned bitters, which last months. And as I recall, I made my entries to AABC in bottles, not casks. So I can't use aging as an excuse for failing to get a placing!


----------



## Adamt

On the other hand, it's quite easy to see how rebrewing would be an advantage. Good judging feedback from the state comp should point the brewer to issues that prevented it from scoring higher.


----------



## browndog

Dr K, I don't think GMK was insinuating anything at all and he does make valid points. It is fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the Vic and ACT guys are the better brewers, I think this is probably due to having better club culture than what we have in other states. A good beer can score at state level, but it must be exceptional to score in the Nats.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Stagger

"A good beer can score at state level, but it must be exceptional to score in the Nats."



I think you hit the nail on the head.

CRaig


----------



## Bribie G

Re ageing of beer. I agree that a well made bottle conditioned beer doesn't suddenly turn to shyte by a certain date. However I have masses of mild ales from as early as July this year. They are certainly good sound ales but I wouldn't put them in a comp now because they have subtly altered - yes and matured - but have 'drifted' away from the sort of freshness that I aim for. I also tried an Aussie Sparkling that got a bronze in the State Comp. Again, it's a drinkable and quite polished beer but has developed stronger esters and almost vinous back flavour. I reckon by Christmas it will be a nice 'dessert' beer. But there again probably not a bronze any more as it has slipped out of the BJCP 'window' and is heading Gawd knows where :icon_drunk: So my original point maybe should be moderated by "What constitutes _'improved'_ " maybe.


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

homekegger1 said:


> Just wondering if anyone else has received feedback sheets/Trophies.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> HK




Good question.
I know mine finished shyte but am still looking forward to my results.

BYB


----------



## dr K

It was not my intention to insinuate, or to suggest that Kenny was insinuating anything. I merely make the point that brewers who do well do so not just because they are good brewers but because they engage in a battle plan, they make tehmselves aware of when the qualifiying rounds are on, when the Nats are on and schedule their brewing/re-brewing to suit, they also enter a shite load of beers, whats more they have entered many beers in local comps over the year or years preceding, they have feedback, and if the precedential judges are good judges, the brewers have had a chance to hone their styles. As a Certified BJCP judge (and one of the first few in Australia) with a long and varied record of judging I feel that I can comment on the standards of the Nats, at which I judged, and the standards were excellent, apart from the ACT judging I can not comment on any of the state comps but feel that all would have been of an equally high standard as the ACT comp..
So lads..get ready for 2010

K


----------



## bradsbrew

Well I have learnt heaps through local, state and teh National comp. My brewing has improved from feedback recieved at local and state level and am eagerly awaiting the Nat feedback. Printing out and reading the guidlines has been a big help. I for one will be better prepared next year and may or may not do better.


----------



## Charlie

Phew ... 

Sorry guys I've had hectic couple of weeks since the Nats (its fete season here in the ACT and with two kids in school and a missus on various committees ... I know I know excuses are like arseholes - everyone's got one).

I pleased to say that the first batch of feedback was sent yesterday and the second batch today, which makes up just under half of the brewers covered (and its a random spread across the states - just the way I've been collating the sheets). I have around 12 awards (which I only got given to me last Thursday) to bundle together with the feedback and post which I hope to get to tomorrow during lunch time and the last of it all done by Friday.

Depending on the vagaries of Australia Post, everyone should have their feedback by mid next week.

I'm not going to enter into the judging scoring debate - my poor EBW got a hammering : (

Chuck - out


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Charlie said:


> Phew ...
> 
> Sorry guys I've had hectic couple of weeks since the Nats (its fete season here in the ACT and with two kids in school and a missus on various committees ... I know I know excuses are like arseholes - everyone's got one).
> 
> I pleased to say that the first batch of feedback was sent yesterday and the second batch today, which makes up just under half of the brewers covered (and its a random spread across the states - just the way I've been collating the sheets). I have around 12 awards (which I only got given to me last Thursday) to bundle together with the feedback and post which I hope to get to tomorrow during lunch time and the last of it all done by Friday.
> 
> Depending on the vagaries of Australia Post, everyone should have their feedback by mid next week.
> 
> I'm not going to enter into the judging scoring debate - my poor EBW got a hammering : (
> 
> Chuck - out


We got our state feedback (WA) via email, a good system minus the paper and postage, thanks Kook.
GB


----------



## clean brewer

browndog said:


> Dr K, I don't think GMK was insinuating anything at all and he does make valid points. It is fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the Vic and ACT guys are the better brewers, I think this is probably due to having better club culture than what we have in other states. A good beer can score at state level, but it must be exceptional to score in the Nats.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Been following this quite closely and while I didnt do any good anywhere(qld & didnt brew for comp, just put entries in), I am quite keen to Brew for the Comps next year...

Just wondering BD what you think say QLD needs to do as far as their Club Culture(BABBS???) to improve on their beers? Im not a BABBS member and not been to a meeting so im not sure what happens there, but is there something better QLD could do to improve??

:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## browndog

clean brewer said:


> Been following this quite closely and while I didnt do any good anywhere(qld & didnt brew for comp, just put entries in), I am quite keen to Brew for the Comps next year...
> 
> Just wondering BD what you think say QLD needs to do as far as their Club Culture(BABBS???) to improve on their beers? Im not a BABBS member and not been to a meeting so im not sure what happens there, but is there something better QLD could do to improve??
> 
> :icon_cheers: CB



Well, I have to be honest and say I made some assumptions. Vic and ACT being physically minute compared to the likes of QLD and WA, therefore you have a lot more brewers in a much smaller area. Hence, any brew clubs would be well supported due to the brewers being closer to the club base. I think this is obvious when you look at the events they put on around AABC time. Vic and ACT do an outstanding job. QLD on the other hand has brewers spread far and wide and I would say only a small number of them are members of BABBs. BABBs does an excellent job in educating their members in all things beer but the members are not a great percentage of entrants in the state comp. I guess what I am saying is we need more HB clubs in QLD.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## clean brewer

browndog said:


> Well, I have to be honest and say I made some assumptions. Vic and ACT being physically minute compared to the likes of QLD and WA, therefore you have a lot more brewers in a much smaller area. Hence, any brew clubs would be well supported due to the brewers being closer to the club base. I think this is obvious when you look at the events they put on around AABC time. Vic and ACT do an outstanding job. QLD on the other hand has brewers spread far and wide and I would say only a small number of them are members of BABBs. BABBs does an excellent job in educating their members in all things beer but the members are not a great percentage of entrants in the state comp. I guess what I am saying is we need more HB clubs in QLD.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog


Thats fair BD, are you aware of where the majority of Brewers that entered the QABC are from? Could be a good starting point to strengthen a Area/s?? 

Next year i will be making the monthly pilgrimage to Brisbane for BABBS I reckon to enhance my Brewing for these sorts of things, well worth the once a month trip me thinks..

There is talk about a Sunny Coast Club but it seems no-one in the area wants to put there hands up to get it going, I would if I was there but am to far away to be any organiser of sorts, would definetly be a member though... It would be a good base I reckon but maybe some of the good brewers aren't to interested anymore? I reckon Screwy would be a goer though... :unsure: 

And I think that Bundaberg should get something happening actually, as its the next point north and their is quite a bit of interest their now with the Qld Champion and his Buddys, Andrew could be a real tutor for us up here to strengthen QLD'S chances to go further..... :beerbang: 

CB


----------



## reVoxAHB

dr K said:


> I merely make the point that brewers who do well do so not just because they are good brewers but because they engage in a battle plan, they make tehmselves aware of when the qualifiying rounds are on, when the Nats are on and schedule their brewing/re-brewing to suit, they also enter a shite load of beers, whats more they have entered many beers in local comps over the year or years preceding, they have feedback, and if the precedential judges are good judges, the brewers have had a chance to hone their styles.


Spot on dr K, I agree wholeheartedly.

It's much more an academic game than homebrew comp. Those who do well see this (or know it) and work to the system.

You've given an accurate map to championship brewing, getting there and winning.

Cheers
reVox


----------



## Charlie

Further to what DrK mentioned, club support to this is crucial - not sure what the Vic boys do, but in the ACT, we hold the ACTABC as close to the Nats as we can. 

Plus the CBC club comps are held to support the brewers getting feedback and being able to re-brew. We have 3 club comps a year, roughly 7 months, 4 months and 2 months before the qualifying rounds. The styles available in the 7 month comp are those big beers that need a good 6 months to be hitting their straps - high gravity belgians, strong ales/lagers and the like (realistically you need to brew some beers years in advance). The 4 month comp has lagers and the darker ales which are at their best after a few months, and lastly the 2 month comp is for all those fresh beers - English and US PAs, wheats, wits etc.

With suitable notice, this gave our members the chance to brew a style, have it judged when its at its best, and be able to re-brew incorporating the feedback and have it at is best again for qualifying ...


----------



## Darren

Could someone please point me to the list of winners and the judges for that category. Was it ever posted?? BribieG??

I looked at the AABC website and it did not appear to be there.

cheers

Darren

Edit: State of Origin would be nice


----------



## MattC

clean brewer said:


> Thats fair BD, are you aware of where the majority of Brewers that entered the QABC are from? Could be a good starting point to strengthen a Area/s??
> 
> Next year i will be making the monthly pilgrimage to Brisbane for BABBS I reckon to enhance my Brewing for these sorts of things, well worth the once a month trip me thinks..
> 
> There is talk about a Sunny Coast Club but it seems no-one in the area wants to put there hands up to get it going, I would if I was there but am to far away to be any organiser of sorts, would definetly be a member though... It would be a good base I reckon but maybe some of the good brewers aren't to interested anymore? I reckon Screwy would be a goer though... :unsure:
> 
> And I think that Bundaberg should get something happening actually, as its the next point north and their is quite a bit of interest their now with the Qld Champion and his Buddys, Andrew could be a real tutor for us up here to strengthen QLD'S chances to go further..... :beerbang:
> 
> CB



:icon_offtopic: 

Hey CB how about the WIBBAB (Wide Bay - Burnett Amateur Brewers) incorporating Yourself, Screwy, Andrew QLD and the rest of the Bundy crew... and I would of course love to be a part of it If I lived in Hervey Bay Still.

Cheers :beer:


----------



## Andyd

Charlie said:


> Further to what DrK mentioned, club support to this is crucial - not sure what the Vic boys do, but in the ACT, we hold the ACTABC as close to the Nats as we can.



Same deal in Vic - we run Vicbrew about 3 weeks prior to the AABC.

As for leading up, at the Melbourne Brewers club meetings we encourage a range of club brews and tastings to gear people up to be ready for competition.

Andy


----------



## Bribie G

Darren said:


> Could someone please point me to the list of winners and the judges for that category. Was it ever posted?? BribieG??
> 
> I looked at the AABC website and it did not appear to be there.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren
> 
> Edit: State of Origin would be nice



Darren, it got buried in this current thread, it's just a very 'top line' summary but it's post #68 :icon_cheers:


----------



## bradsbrew

Got my feedback today. Thanks for the constructive feedback, I will put it to good use, hopefully. Jayse your feedback sheet will be copied and go onto the bar wall. much appreciated everyone.

Brad


----------



## haysie

Stagger said:


> "A good beer can score at state level, but it must be exceptional to score in the Nats."
> 
> 
> 
> I think you hit the nail on the head.
> 
> CRaig



Huge call Craig. Why have a state comp in the first place? If the nats are the be all and end all, lets just enter there? Which of course would be detrimental to craftbrewing as a whole, under the current state qualify I see it as the same people winning every award, then performing modestly at nat level and the same brewers taking the cake.
Kudos to the "same ole"aka Geelong winning all those flags brewers taking everything home and setting the standard.
On the other hand, how do you encourage new blood? Really, lets get real, BJCP qualification seems almost "dont question me, I know what I`m doing" Us and them thing.


----------



## browndog

haysie said:


> Huge call Craig. Why have a state comp in the first place? If the nats are the be all and end all, lets just enter there? Which of course would be detrimental to craftbrewing as a whole, under the current state qualify I see it as the same people winning every award, then performing modestly at nat level and the same brewers taking the cake.
> Kudos to the "same ole"aka Geelong winning all those flags brewers taking everything home and setting the standard.
> On the other hand, how do you encourage new blood? Really, lets get real, BJCP qualification seems almost "dont question me, I know what I`m doing" Us and them thing.



Haysie,
Just because your beer scored a place in the state comps, how can you expect it to score in the Nats when there are 4 other states submitting as good or better beers? You seem to have a serious chip on your shoulders mate.


----------



## Steve

haysie said:


> I dont see any mention of scores? Chips? Fair go, grow up mate! Browneye, are you the auditer? re this forum!



Think i'll go put the popcorn on. This is better than the Sullivans!


----------



## browndog

haysie said:


> I dont see any mention of scores? Chips? Fair go, grow up mate! Browneye, are you the auditer? re this forum!
> 
> edited, bad language directed at a muppet



Nothing like a sore looser,

Aww .... come on. why the post deletes, I don't care a whit what Haysie said, I'm just standing up for the guys who go the extra mile and organise events like the AABC etc etc, they don't deserve the shit they cop.


----------



## matho

just got my sheets back

thanks to the judges for the informative score sheets and everyone else involed

i knew that my beer had lost its edge since the nsw comp and the information confirmed it.

cheer's
matho


----------



## Stagger

It's great to see passionate craft brewers, this is truly a wonderful thing. My statement was about the nationals being the three best beers from each state, all very good beer. To win at a national level or to even place it must be better than very good, it must be exceptional. One of our very best brewers, here in Canberra, cleaned up in our comp, he even came first AND second in the beer of show BUT did not even place at the nationals. 

The fact that a beer has gone through to the national is a great accomplishment, hopefully when reading the judging sheets it will give some room for improvement.

The judges at the nationals was one of the strongest I have ever seen. It was a great event hopefully we all can see it as that.


Craig


----------



## randyrob

bradsbrew said:


> Jayse your feedback sheet will be copied and go onto the bar wall.



+1 what an enthusiastic lad


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Now here is my gripe, I receive feedback and cant even read them, illegible.If you are a judge, write more than three words and make it readable.Cant improve if you cant read it.  
GB


----------



## samhighley

bradsbrew said:


> Jayse your feedback sheet will be copied and go onto the bar wall.



Haha, yeah, the feedback sheet I got from Jayse had writing going vertically up each side of the sheet, and then he'd filled almost the entire back of the sheet as well. His writing is pretty big, so it wasn't actually that much information. Amusing nonetheless.


----------



## raven19

Charlie said:


> Depending on the vagaries of Australia Post, everyone should have their feedback by mid next week.



Thanks for that update Charlie, looking forward to reading up on the feedback.

Again - great work done by all in organising this event.


----------



## pjwhite5

Received my feedback today and my 3rd place glass for my brown ale, Also hard to read the feedback, however i found the feedback to be close to what I thought, a little big for a NE Brown Ale. 

Thanks to the organisers, judges etc for putting on this event 

Cheers

PJ


----------



## bradsbrew

Do we recieve a certificate or something for a 2nd place. I have recieved my feedback. Would like to have something to put on the bar.


Brad


----------



## Darren

I still cant find judges names and state of origin. Could the organisers please post a link to these?

cheers

darren


----------



## dj1984

bradsbrew said:


> Do we recieve a certificate or something for a 2nd place. I have recieved my feedback. Would like to have something to put on the bar.
> 
> 
> Brad


You should of got a beer glass, mine come with the score sheets.


----------



## bradsbrew

dj1984 said:


> You should of got a beer glass, mine come with the score sheets.



Nah, All I got was a single envelope with the scoresheets inside.


----------



## Ross

bradsbrew said:


> Nah, All I got was a single envelope with the scoresheets inside.



Mate, really sorry, picked up the glasses at the comp, i thought I had told you when I rang you.
Meant to hand out at the weekend, but got fuddled by beer & good company...

cheers Ross


----------



## bradsbrew

Ross said:


> Mate, really sorry, picked up the glasses at the comp, i thought I had told you when I rang you.
> Meant to hand out at the weekend, but got fuddled by beer & good company...
> 
> cheers Ross



No worries Ross, will get it off you next time I'm in the shop.

Cheers


----------



## Andyd

Stagger said:


> My statement was about the nationals being the three best beers from each state, all very good beer. To win at a national level or to even place it must be better than very good, it must be exceptional.



One thing to keep in mind is that it is not necissarily true that the beer that finds its way to AABC was even present in the state competition. The rules state (D1 in the rules doc) that 

"If the original beer is no longer available, entrants may submit a
different beer in the same or a different style in that category."

So while I agree with Craig's sentiment, it's certainly possible for a beer to slip through that has never actually been evaluated before - so assuming that all beers getting to nationals will be exceptional may not be a good basis for evaluation...

Andy


----------



## Andyd

Sammy said:


> Haha, yeah, the feedback sheet I got from Jayse had writing going vertically up each side of the sheet, and then he'd filled almost the entire back of the sheet as well. His writing is pretty big, so it wasn't actually that much information. Amusing nonetheless.



I think I saw that sheet - there's only one word required to describe it... "Special" !

Cheers Jayse!

Andy


----------



## smudge

browndog said:


> Nothing like a sore looser,
> 
> Aww .... come on. why the post deletes, I don't care a whit what Haysie said, I'm just standing up for the guys who go the extra mile and organise events like the AABC etc etc, they don't deserve the shit they cop.



I'm assuming here (because I didn't catch the blue) that a moderator has stepped in and "moderated". Seems that whoever
moderated the thread has decided that browndog would be offended by some post or other...obviously he's not!

Shame that the public service mentality of "it's in the posting guidelines....follow the rules" has whitewashed a lot of the character of this forum!

Cheers,
smudge


----------



## AndrewQLD

Ross said:


> Mate, really sorry, picked up the glasses at the comp, i thought I had told you when I rang you.
> Meant to hand out at the weekend, but got fuddled by beer & good company...
> 
> cheers Ross



I was wondering about that, any chance you can bring mine to Eagle Heights Ross?

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Ross

AndrewQLD said:


> I was wondering about that, any chance you can bring mine to Eagle Heights Ross?
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



No problem  

cheers Ross


----------



## hazard

Sammy said:


> Haha, yeah, the feedback sheet I got from Jayse had writing going vertically up each side of the sheet, and then he'd filled almost the entire back of the sheet as well. His writing is pretty big, so it wasn't actually that much information. Amusing nonetheless.


I just got my feedback sheets too. Jayse did same for me - the whole page was covered. Rather than amusing, I found it really helpful to get so much feedback, and there are plenty of comments there that will point me in the way of making a better beer next time - thanks Jayse.

one thing that did perplex me though - After six judges have tasted my stout (I entered bottles from same batch in state and nationals) one and only judge opined that beer was "oxidised with wet cardboard flavour". I've never eaten wet cardboard, so hard for me to compare, and I'm happy to take on feedback but why would one and only one judge notice this?


----------



## bconnery

hazard said:


> I just got my feedback sheets too. Jayse did same for me - the whole page was covered. Rather than amusing, I found it really helpful to get so much feedback, and there are plenty of comments there that will point me in the way of making a better beer next time - thanks Jayse.
> 
> one thing that did perplex me though - After six judges have tasted my stout (I entered bottles from same batch in state and nationals) one and only judge opined that beer was "oxidised with wet cardboard flavour". I've never eaten wet cardboard, so hard for me to compare, and I'm happy to take on feedback but why would one and only one judge notice this?


It's very much the case that different judges notice different things. Some judges will be finely tuned to a particular flavour or fault. That isn't to say the other judges aren't as good, just that they don't find those flavours as readily as others. 

It is a little odd that one out of 6 noticed it, but it could also have been a bottle issue. Different bottles within the batch are different, no matter how similar their bottling.


----------



## jayse

I am glad everyone so far has liked my feedback, my theory is to write down everything i am thinking as it does not take much effort, to do that you have to be confident with yourself and not second guess what some other judge maybe thinking or even second guess yourself.

I have noticed overall since I started judging that most judges now are writing more compared to back in the day when you where lucky to get a couple ticks let alone half a sentence.

I would not say everything i write may be correct but it is what i thought of the beer at the time and I aim to do the best I can.
Some of my sheets got quite a laugh at the club night, I remember stagger was carrying one of his from me around with him and pulled it out and read it too me, I think my style may be a little excentric to some judges and I was even pulled up by Ross the head judge for inappropiate comments on two judging sheets, quite rightly too as i agreed with him totally in those instances.

Anyway thanks brewers.

Cheers
Jayse


----------



## raven19

Got my sheets the other day too!

Some very helpful points, I shall remake the only beer I entered with these points in mind soon.

(No pages of comments from Jayse for me, I had different judges on my porter...)


----------



## ausdb

My sheets arrived in the mail the other day, many thanks to the judges for their concise and also legible comments 

The comments pretty much confirmed what I expected of the beers


----------



## Josh

ausdb said:


> My sheets arrived in the mail the other day, many thanks to the judges for their concise and also legible comments
> 
> The comments pretty much confirmed what I expected of the beers


Mine arrived today.

As has been said previously, there were more comments from this comp than any other I have entered. Pretty much confirmed what I expected and will now work on improving my beers.


----------



## samhighley

hazard said:


> Rather than amusing, I found it really helpful to get so much feedback ...



Just to clarify that when I said I found Jayse's feedback amusing, I meant that the amount he had written was amusing, because I wasn't used to that much feedback. I looked at the sheet and my first response was "Hah! Look at all that feedback!".

His comments on my Dusseldorf Altbier were very useful, and I agree with most of what he'd written. It was the first beer of that style that i've brewed, so I was flying blind somewhat when I brewed it, and the feedback will be very useful.


----------



## haysie

smudge said:


> I'm assuming here (because I didn't catch the blue) that a moderator has stepped in and "moderated". Seems that whoever
> moderated the thread has decided that browndog would be offended by some post or other...obviously he's not!
> 
> Shame that the public service mentality of "it's in the posting guidelines....follow the rules" has whitewashed a lot of the character of this forum!
> 
> Cheers,
> smudge



Exuberance wont be tolerated when your handle is ........
Back on topic,
AABC, dont change nothing its great, How do you qualify again? awww thru a state run competition, but alas as some have posted here the state run is second rate, so why have a qualifying in the first place? Too reduce the number of entries in the national? 
How can I enter a national comp when per scores my state judges are second rate and as posted above, people enter beers whom didnt qualify at state.
Its a raffle, buy a ticket come here come all.


----------



## Maxt

How are them grapes Haysie. Make your mouth pucker do they?


----------



## haysie

Maxt said:


> How are them grapes Haysie. Make your mouth pucker do they?



Its muppets like you Max whom dont even qualify a half decent argument.
Nevertheless, its my right too comment and its your`s too hide behind lame ass sore looser comments. Move on Max, grow up mate.


----------



## Darren

I didn't enter this year but clearly know my experience after tasting fellow brewers beers. Some are good and some are not so good. However I CAN pick some brewers beers by what I call particular _"nuances"_. And yes, I can pull them out of a flight of 10 or more beers.

That beside the fact, I maintain that there is a potential for "judges" who regularly drink fellow brewers beers become accustomed to that beer and could, unknowingly to them, favour a beer one of those beers (a bit like someone will only enjoy VB of XXXX or TED).

Could one of the organisers of this comp please post the judges names with "state of origin" and the state origin of entrants? It would help me resolve (or confirm) a bug-bear that I have had for many years now.

cheers

Darren


----------



## haysie

Darren said:


> I didn't enter this year but clearly know my experience after tasting fellow brewers beers. Some are good and some are not so good. However I CAN pick some brewers beers by what I call particular _"nuances"_. And yes, I can pull them out of a flight of 10 or more beers.
> 
> That beside the fact, I maintain that there is a potential for "judges" who regularly drink fellow brewers beers become accustomed to that beer and could, unknowingly to them, favour a beer one of those beers (a bit like someone will only enjoy VB of XXXX or TED).
> 
> Could one of the organisers of this comp please post the judges names with "state of origin" and the state origin of entrants? It would help me resolve (or confirm) a bug-bear that I have had for many years now.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



I`m tipping the brewing Gods will send you away with previous comments of impossible "dreaming Darren" cant happen etc. Bullshit it doesnt happen.
Its the same winners every year, then in the next sentence they tell you of record entries yad yada,, crap! Want a ticket to the raffle?

What about the above post by Andy, WTF!, lets just enter under another category, I drunk it all.


----------



## Maxt

"It is the same winners every year"..., bit like Tiger Woods, Michael Schumacher, Phelps etc. They regualry win beacause they are the best. If it was a lottery, speople like Haysie would get on the podium. Imagine that.


----------



## bigfridge

haysie said:


> Nevertheless, its my right too comment and its your`s too hide behind lame ass sore looser comments.



haysie,

I think that you have made your comment - it was the one about it being a lottery. Just because no-one agrees with you doesn't mean that you can keep repeatring it - repetition does not add to your 'argument'. I think that I will just move along as there is nothing (new) to see here.

BTW, Thanks to the Canberra boys - by all reports it was another great 'Canberra' production.

Dave


----------



## Darren

Maxt said:


> "It is the same winners every year"..., bit like Tiger Woods, Michael Schumacher, Phelps etc. They regualry win beacause they are the best. If it was a lottery, speople like Haysie would get on the podium. Imagine that.




Hey Maxt,

Your comment is almost true except that Tiger Woods, Michael Schumacher etc only enter once in their chosen field.

Unfortunately, there is a saying known as "Carpet bombers" in HB communities who enter many, many, many beers in State comps.

Although these brewers are very experienced in brewing they simply enter ALL of the brews into comps (this could be 12 or more). These brews make up to 5-10% of State competitions. 

Judge palate fatigue (and coming to back to something they know) will influence decisions about quality, especially if they have previously tried the beer before them.

I suggest that to obtain the best beers within a state that "most successful brewer" points should be divided by points gained and number of beers entered.

cheers

Darren


----------



## bigfridge

Darren said:


> Unfortunately, there is a saying known as "Carpet bombers" in HB communities who enter many, many, many beers in State comps.
> 
> ...
> 
> Although these brewers are very experienced in brewing they simply enter ALL of the brews into comps (this could be 12 or more). These brews make up to 5-10% of State competitions.



'ALL' their brews Darren ? You have knowledge of EVERY brewer's stocks ? - I'm impressed B) 

Regardless of what you think I am sure that all the entries accepted at the state competition comply with the relevant rules - which is probably more than what can be stated about your posts complying with this forums posting guidelines.



Darren said:


> I suggest that to obtain the best beers within a state that "most successful brewer" points should be divided by points gained and number of beers entered.



You are free to suggest what you wish, but you will probably need to setup your own competition before your suggestions were adopted.

Dave


----------



## Darren

bigfridge said:


> 'ALL' their brews Darren ? You have knowledge of EVERY brewer's stocks ? - I'm impressed B)
> 
> Regardless of what you think I am sure that all the entries accepted at the state competition comply with the relevant rules - which is probably more than what can be stated about your posts complying with this forums posting guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
> You are free to suggest what you wish, but you will probably need to setup your own competition before your suggestions were adopted.
> 
> Dave




Hi BIG fridge.

Great, seems that you are all for the idea of "carpet bombers" entering 10+ beers into a comp (many of which are less than average) but becoming MOST SUCCESSFUL BREWER (by scoring with three beers)?

Perhaps the rules should be modified to remove the people who enter everything they brewed which was not obviously infected. That is divide their score (and all other contenders for best of show) by the numbers of beers they have entered? 

Does not seem unreasonable to me but perhaps you have a different agenda opposed to transparency?

cheers

Darren


----------



## bigfridge

Darren said:


> Does not seem unreasonable to me but perhaps you have a different agenda opposed to transparency?



No agenda my friend, just limited tolerence for those full of complaint for something that they are not involved in.


----------



## Darren

Just to clarify my recent posts. I have noticed over the years that the "host state" beers seems to do one-hell-of a lot better than thos submitted (from other states) beers.

I would really like to see the actual data from these National comps to analyse for myself.

cheers

Darren


----------



## bigfridge

Darren said:


> Just to clarify my recent posts. I have noticed over the years that the "host state" beers seems to do one-hell-of a lot better than thos submitted (from other states) beers.
> 
> I would really like to see the actual data from these National comps to analyse for myself.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



It is all available here - is that transparent enough for you ?


----------



## Darren

Big Fridge,

I saw categories, winners but no judges for a particular category. Can you point me to that?

cheers

Darren


----------



## Maple

FFS, what a bunch of really sore losers we are... If someone wants to enter 23 beers in 12 categories (or more) fine with me. if they are substandard, they will be judged. If they take 3 placings, they HAD 3 good beers entered that placed. I entered State, didn't place, don't care really - received feedback, good and bad, and it's something to go on. Accurate, doesn't matter, it's something. If you think it's just a mugs game, don't feckin enter, if you think it's unfair cause of judging fatigue on tasting, bad luck (and see mugs game response). There are heaps of people this year that are learning from the Judging, either BJCP courses, helping at comps, or even, dare I say it, by entering and using the feedback provided. 

It's a learning experience for most, c'mon fellas, at least be constructive, even if it is just in your posting.


----------



## dr K

Darren
I suggest that you are not at all familiar with Lear.
None the less there will always be people who object to, or suggest to or otherwise wish to make contributions, whether warranted, wise, helpfull, asked for, askewed or simply lame.
I am, perhaps, the fool, but to a simple man such as I, the rules or regulations or call them what you will of amateur competitions such the Nationals should be decided by concensus of those who seek to enter and judge.

K


----------



## Darren

Maple said:


> FFS, what a bunch of really sore losers we are... If someone wants to enter 23 beers in 12 categories (or more) fine with me. if they are substandard, they will be judged. If they take 3 placings, they HAD 3 good beers entered that placed.
> It's a learning experience for most, c'mon fellas, at least be constructive, even if it is just in your posting.



Maple,

Not a loser, just a judge at SABSOSA  

Just trying to raise the standard of flights I have judged. To be quite honest, there is some crap entered. If by chance alone that a brewer entered both a good beer and their worst beer in a comp then the chances are that the worst beer will preceed in judging a beer of many merits that are not recognised by the negative  flavours placed on a judges palate by the previous beer

Although Mr. BigFridge is opposed to change, brewers who "carpet bomb" brew comps should be penalised by a BAD beer they enter (ie if their score was an aggregate of the beers entered it would be a good assessment of their own ability to know what to enter and what not too)


dr K said:


> Darren
> I suggest that you are not at all familiar with Lear.
> None the less there will always be people who object to, or suggest to or otherwise wish to make contributions, whether warranted, wise, helpfull, asked for, askewed or simply lame.
> I am, perhaps, the fool, but to a simple man such as I, the rules or regulations or call them what you will of amateur competitions such the Nationals should be decided by concensus of those who seek to enter and judge.
> 
> K




Yes Dr.K,

I have contributed in all of your requirements to opinion, therefore I feel an obligation to comment on the topic on hand.

cheers

Dr. D


----------



## smudge

When you enter a competition, you need to honestly answer only one question to yourself; "Why am I entering?"

If you are entering to get feedback on your beer, brewing process, sanitation, ability to brew "to style" then that's great. You will
get a scoresheet back that hopefully answers some of those questions.

If on the otherhand, you are entering to win a medal, best of show, brewer of the year etc, etc, you will enter as many beers
as you have on hand and hope that the sheer number of entries will give you a leg up. There is a lot of luck involved.

For various reasons I have never entered a comp. If I do, I hope that my motivation is for education rather than the gong.

But, bugger........I'll say it......wouldn't it be nice to have a medal that says you're the best brewer in the country??

Cheers,
smudge

PS

If Darren's question cannot be answered let's say it, seems a reasonable question to me.


----------



## dr K

Darren,
Clearly my suggestion was, in truth, factual.
I did not BTW opine.

K


----------



## Darren

dr K said:


> Darren,
> 
> I did not BTW opine.
> 
> K



K,

WTF not?

D


----------



## dr K

> If on the otherhand, you are entering to win a medal, best of show, brewer of the year etc, etc, you will enter as many beers
> as you have on hand and hope that the sheer number of entries will give you a leg up. There is a lot of luck involved.



Depends on your asessment of the quality of the judges.
Depends whether the judges cause they say they are or if they have been peer asessed, at more than one level.
No doubt about it, and any decent brewer knows this so it is rather boring to have to repeat, in a flight of say 8 beers there will be one, or two or even three that stand out, the difference will only be a few points, all are good beeers and on another day, even with same judges, it will vary, but the best are always at the top..so YES it is luck, but in this case case you have to be good before you are lucky.

K


----------



## bigfridge

Darren said:


> Although Mr. BigFridge is opposed to change, brewers who "carpet bomb" brew comps should be penalised by a BAD beer they enter (ie if their score was an aggregate of the beers entered it would be a good assessment of their own ability to know what to enter and what not too)



Dear Darren,

I won't comment on your judging ability as apparently it has not been subjected to independent assessment (eg BJCP exam), hence my comments would only be opinion and not fact. But I do feel compelled to comment on your other abilities. You seem to be able to predict with some certainty the beer stocks of EVERY national competitor and their motivation for entering competitions. Now you are able to add the ability to attribute to me words that I have not said and thoughts that I have not had. 

Those that know me will attest that I have, in the past, many suggestions for improving the local brewing competitions. Many of these can be found in the current AABC guidelines. These are only loosely based on my 20 year experience of entering/running/assisting/judging of local competitions and attendance at similar competitions in the USA.

It is a fabrication of your own imagination to say that I am 'opposed to change' based on what I have written here.

We now return you to your normal program.


----------



## Darren

bigfridge said:


> Dear Darren,
> 
> Many of these can be found in the current AABC guidelines. These are only loosely based on my 20 year experience of entering/running/assisting/judging of local competitions and attendance at similar competitions in the USA.
> 
> It is a fabrication of your own imagination to say that I am 'opposed to change' based on what I have written here.



Deleted most of your post but I will comment like this. I know of people who have passed BJCP exams who could not taste a beer from their asshole so I will leave your comment at that (for those not in the know BJCP only has a small component on tasting whereas majority is based on theory).

Please tell me Mr. Big why "carpet bombing" of a comp is allowed? Is it because of the proceeds generated to organisers of a comp $$$$$$$ or is it because those who do so cannot tell which of thier multitude of beers are actually good?

Penalise any carpet bomber for bad beers I say (unless it is standard practice to award bad beers in the US too). Perhaps it is just a faction of my imagination? 

cheers

Darren


----------



## smudge

dr K said:


> No doubt about it, and any decent brewer knows this so it is rather boring to have to repeat, in a flight of say 8 beers there will be one, or two or even three that stand out, the difference will only be a few points, all are good beeers and on another day, even with same judges, it will vary, but the best are always at the top..so YES it is luck, but in this case case you have to be good before you are lucky.
> 
> K



K,

I think Shakespeare would be turning in his grave if he ever had the chance to read this. I've got Don Watson's mobile no and
I'll pm it to you if you are interested and I can find it.

I'll never slag a judge, whatever their experience. They are putting their hand up (for a variety of reasons) and if they are
the ones who judge my beer, (if ever I enter a comp) I have no problem with whatever they score, describe or comment on.

I do have a problem though with Darren's question. It may be a stupid question. His reasoning may be way off. He might have
been kidnapped by the sceptic fairies......but it deserves an answer.

I also have some sympathy for Darren's opinion on 'carpet bombing'. I'm trying to find a negative in his maths about taking
the good (bad?) beers scored against the number of beers entered. Is there a problem with this approach I'm not seeing?

Cheers,
smudge


----------



## dr K

> I know of people who have passed BJCP exams who could not taste a beer from their asshole so I will leave your comment at that (for those not in the know BJCP only has a small component on tasting whereas majority is based on theory).


Go Darren
you are surely in a mood to name and shame..so prove your mettle and do so, of course if you are at at loss to so I would not object if you named and shamed me..
i will not shame you for your lack of knowledge about the BJCP, you have done a far better job than I ever could have.

K


----------



## drsmurto

I'll put my hand up and say i agree with Darren.

The most logical scoring system would be one based on the average of every beer you enter in a given competition.


----------



## bum

So a brewer should only brew in a style which they have a proven record? They can't branch out into other styles for feedback? Perhaps brewers who only enter one beer that isn't very good should have points deducted from future entries? Good beers should be penalised for coming from the same shed as a not so good beer?

Makes no sense.


----------



## smudge

DrSmurto said:


> I'll put my hand up and say i agree with Darren.
> 
> The most logical scoring system would be one based on the average of every beer you enter in a given competition.



I agree (again),

For "best brewer", "Ninkasi", "brewer of the century", "best of Gulgong Show", I agree.

For a single style I think there is no problem with awarding the gong to the beer the judges _(whoever they are!)_
deem to be the best beer brewed according to the rules of the competition.

Cheers,
smudge


----------



## smudge

bum said:


> So a brewer should only brew in a style which they have a proven record? They can't branch out into other styles for feedback? Perhaps brewers who only enter one beer that isn't very good should have points deducted from future entries? Good beers should be penalised for coming from the same shed as a not so good beer?
> 
> Makes no sense.



No bum, you're not listening.

THE question remains. "Why are you entering the competition?"

If your motivation is to get feedback from whatever judging panel happens to judge your comp so that you can improve your
beers, it doesn't matter how many good or bad beers you enter. You'll soon know how the judging panel feels. Branch out to
you heart's content.

If your motivation is to win a medal, best of show, brewer of the century etc, etc, then yeah! Don't "branch out into other
styles" if you can't brew a reasonable beer that comes close to the comp's guidelines.

Cheers,
smudge


----------



## bum

smudge said:


> No bum, you're not listening.



Pardon? You seem to be confusing "listening" with "accepting what I say as Gospel".

People's motivations for entering a comp have nothing to do with how the awards should be decided.


----------



## Stuster

I'm writing to the IOC to suggest they adjust their programs to account for countries 'carpet bombing' the Olympics. The overall winning country will be based on the 'Darren method' by the average number of medals per competitors sent. This means that Togo topped the Beijing Olympics after one of their two athletes won a bronze, followed by Ethiopia, Zimbabwe and Kenya. (Australia came a lowly 33rd. <_< ) From here.


----------



## Tony

DrS.

Darren seems to has a problem with the carpet bombing of comps.

The rules from the NSW state comp state:

The only exemption to this is the most sucessfull exibitor for the competition award where all scores will be taken into consideration and enteries must have a minimum of three (3) enteries overall to qualify.

This sounds to me like it meand all enteries are averaged if you have 3 or more enteries and puts you into contention for the award. The more enteries.... the more chance you have of winning.. .even if you have a few really bad beers. Averages work like that.

I personally have always looked apon the MSB award as a bit of a joke and the first in class or brew of show as the big ticket items! Mainly because of this reason in the rules.

Yes i just agreed with Darren :unsure: but im not going to lie or say nothing to stir shit on here........... im sick of all that.

If i have misinturpreted the rule of all the brewers beers scores being averaged..... please corect me..... its just how i percieve the rule.

Its the rule and i accept it as it is......... i never chased it as an award when entering comps for reasons stated above, but its a rule and we live with it.

Bagging out the basis of brewing competioions and there rules (even if we dont like them) sorry Darren.. but especially from yourself as a judge as you have stated with a smile, is not going to fix anything.

I have read over all this a couple times now and i dont think the beef is carpet bombing........ it seemed to be a gripe with aledged state favoritism at state and national comps. Blambing carpet bombing from a few brewers for any gripes you may have with who won..... and as a judge Darren... you should follow the code as other judges do, of all beers will be judged equally and fairly, even if you know the brewer and the beer...... and i dont doubt any judges ability to pick a certain beer from a flight of 10! If we are led to believe judges are using favoritism when judging..... this will onlu destroy the fabric of belief that home brewers hold when entering beers to any comp... large or small.

As a Judge yourself Darren...... isnt this self destructive to work you have put into becoming a judge in the first place..... and im sure that was a lot of work! ???

Cheers

Tony


----------



## smudge

bum said:


> So a brewer should only brew in a style which they have a proven record? They can't branch out into other styles for feedback? Perhaps brewers who only enter one beer that isn't very good should have points deducted from future entries? Good beers should be penalised for coming from the same shed as a not so good beer?
> 
> Makes no sense.



bum, sorry I had to quote you again.

Just one question. A hypothetical competition I enter with the aim of winning best brewer of the year. I enter 25 beers. 21 of them are
infected, oxidised, phenolic, cloudy.....you name it, these beers had it.

BUT, I had 4 beers that scored first place and that was enough to give me the honour of "brewer of the century".

Did I deserve the gong of "brewer of the century?" when another brewer only entered three beers and won best of class each time?

Cheers,
smudge

PS
Stuster, sorry but you've just added weight to my argument. That's a letter that should be written.

PPS
Like Tony says, "the more entries, the more chance you have of winning"......Brewer of the Century that is!!


----------



## Stuster

Ok, well to describe a not so theoretical example. Say if you had one brewer who entered ten beers and placed with 5 of them. Another brewer entered one beer and placed with that. Congratulations, the best brewer is our brewer of one beer. :icon_cheers: 

I guess I think it's important that people enter beers they are not sure about and would like feedback on. If people only enter beers they are sure are going to do well, everybody learns less. Which to me is more of an issue than who wins the champion brewer.


----------



## dr K

these arguments have gone on for years, and will continue to
the answer is so simple it hardly bears mentioning, so I guess it's analogy time.
Let us then take another competion, pick rugby, or tennis, whatever. rugby players or tennis players paly by the rules or the laws or whatever, they enter the comp as a team or an individual, and always have, knowing those laws or rules or regulations. Those laws, rules, regulations change from time time to time usually by the governing body that governs that sport which suprise usually has a fair mix of retired highly experienced exponents.
The sidelines though are full of characters who "know" the ref got it wrong, the next day work breaks are full of sugsestions and complaints.
If we want to take (and many of us have) amateur brewing to a new and then higher level, then we would be wise to follow the examples of other amateur comps that have shown us the way.
Stay on the sideline, shout all the abuse you can muster, but if you truly want to change things then do something about it, yes, sorry, it does mean getting involved and, hey, communicating on a face to face basis....

K


----------



## smudge

Stuster said:


> Ok, well to describe a not so theoretical example. Say if you had one brewer who entered ten beers and placed with 5 of them. Another brewer entered one beer and placed with that. Congratulations, the best brewer is our brewer of one beer. :icon_cheers:
> 
> I guess I think it's important that people enter beers they are not sure about and would like feedback on. If people only enter beers they are sure are going to do well, everybody learns less. Which to me is more of an issue than who wins the champion brewer.



Stuster,

I know I'm trying to be a bit of an armchair critic here but your example is a good one. If the best brewer's other 5 beers
weren't "tip down the drain stuff", I agree, he/she deserves the gong.

The last paragraph of your post though is the money shot. If you enter a competition to try to win a 'best brewer' award as
your prime motivation.....sorry, you're a bit of a tosser. If you enter to find out how good your beers are in comparison to the
rest and what you could do to make it better, then you are someone I would like to have a drink with!

Cheers,
smudge


----------



## schooey

Some of you blokes are drawing fairly long bows here... If you're honest with yourselves, you have to admit that it would be extremely, extremely rare that 'Tip down the drain stuff' would place in a comp and afford the brewer a chance to move to the next level...

Just sounds like a bunch of sour grapes towards blokes that make the effort to brew and enter numerous beers, and are successful at it IMHO


----------



## bum

Smudge, no need to apologise for bringing up something I've posted again. This is how the internet works and I am comfortable with it.

Stuster basically made my point already. All we're arguing about is numbers, not quality of beer. If this, honestly quite silly, award is to exist the only fair way to award it is to the brewer with the most highly scored beers (even if they throw in a couple duds somewhere). The alternative is having a bloke who puts in 3 class winning beers and one dud losing out to a bloke who puts in 8 beers that don't even place but are consistent. Where a modicum of ability is present the "averaging" method actually increases the likelihood of the carpet bomber winning.


----------



## Darren

Bum,

You enter 8 mediocre beers that dont place, you score nothing. Generally you get three points for a first, two for second and 1 for a third.

My gripe is the scenario where someone enters 12 beers and gets three firsts (total points 9). Although the majority of the remainder of the beers were OK, three of this brewers beers were actual shockers (scoring between 15-30 out of 50)

Another brewer enters 4 beers and gets two firsts one second and the other beer is good (scores 38/50) but does not place (total 8 points)

You tell me which brewer should get the gong as Best Brewer of Show?

cheers

Darren


----------



## Maxt

If you are good enough to get ANY beers to the nats then you did well. To get more than one beer through, means that you are must be a very goode brewer to have come 1st 2nd or 3rd in your state comp. To get multiple beers through means you have mastered many styles, and not just your pet ones. That takes the kind of skill and consistency most brewers can't achieve easily. Think I'm wrong? I challenge you to carpet bomb your state comp next year, and let's see how many make it through to Melbourne.
As Dr K says, the sideline is a very safe place. 
Reminds me of the old joke: 
Q) How many guitarists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A) 1 to change it, and 10 to stand around saying how they could have changed it quicker, with more feeling, with better tone etc.

Sounds like the above arguments.


----------



## bigfridge

Darren said:


> My gripe is the scenario where someone enters 12 beers and gets three firsts (total points 9). Although the majority of the remainder of the beers were OK, three of this brewers beers were actual shockers (scoring between 15-30 out of 50)
> 
> Another brewer enters 4 beers and gets two firsts one second and the other beer is good (scores 38/50) but does not place (total 8 points)



Darren, 

Once again just as I was about to point out the flaws in your argument - you go and do a better job.

You claim to be an experienced judge but increasingly you show a great ignorance of how beer evaluation and competitions work. Judging is an intrinsically flawed process. The human palate is not an analytical instrument that reports absolute values that can be statistically analysed. But it does a pretty good job (when adequately trained and prepared) of picking up differences and reporting general impressions using a standard language.

This can be clearly shown by the range of scores recorded for a callibration beer. Here the same beer is evaluated by all judges under identical conditions and yet a range of 10-15 points can be reported. What would this do to your 'average' method if one brewer got mainly 'generous' judges while another got a 'hanging' judge ?


----------



## AndrewQLD

Darren said:


> Bum,
> 
> You enter 8 mediocre beers that dont place, you score nothing. Generally you get three points for a first, two for second and 1 for a third.
> 
> My gripe is the scenario where someone enters 12 beers and gets three firsts (total points 9). Although the majority of the remainder of the beers were OK, three of this brewers beers were actual shockers (scoring between 15-30 out of 50)
> 
> Another brewer enters 4 beers and gets two firsts one second and the other beer is good (scores 38/50) but does not place (total 8 points)
> 
> You tell me which brewer should get the gong as Best Brewer of Show?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



Darren, maybe you should get the comp your involved in (SABSOSA) to tow your line and change their rules before you try to change all the other competitions, I notice there was a bit of "carpet bombing" as you put it there as well.
Start small, make the changes in your state comp and lead by example, maybe the other states will see it works well and follow suite, or maybe not.

Andrew


----------



## haysie

AndrewQLD said:


> Darren, maybe you should get the comp your involved in (SABSOSA) to tow your line and change their rules before you try to change all the other competitions, I notice there was a bit of "carpet bombing" as you put it there as well.
> Start small, make the changes in your state comp and lead by example, maybe the other states will see it works well and follow suite, or maybe not.
> 
> Andrew



Andrew, being so "up" with the goings, Why hang it on SA, look in your own QLD backyard albeit very dismal results. Carpet bombing is alive and well in every state, surely morso the events organisers could do better ( wasnt that the OP?).
Andrew, start small, enter state comps like Victoria`s English Bitter, then improve. Lead by example then hijack it. Food for thought huh


----------



## browndog

haysie said:


> Andrew, being so "up" with the goings, Why hang it on SA, look in your own QLD backyard albeit very dismal results. Carpet bombing is alive and well in every state, surely morso the events organisers could do better ( wasnt that the OP?).
> Andrew, start small, enter state comps like Victoria`s English Bitter, then improve. Lead by example then hijack it. Food for thought huh



Haysie, there is nobody up here in QLD blaming carpet bombing for our short comings. To be honest, it is a poor excuse say it fatigues the judges pallets and the best beers don't end up getting through, the best beers get though regardless.

cheers 

Browndog


----------



## Peteoz77

This is all too hard...

Who has "Carpet Bombed" the local or national competitions?

How did they finish?

Was it worthwhile?


----------



## haysie

browndog said:


> Haysie, there is nobody up here in QLD blaming carpet bombing for our short comings. To be honest, it is a poor excuse say it fatigues the judges pallets and the best beers don't end up getting through, the best beers get though regardless.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



The best beers get thru? hmmm maybe with a real frown. They dont.
Cant the whole scene be improved a tad too encourage new blood, limit the bombing, champion brewer on ALL points not PLACE points, i.e top tens versus the brewers outside ten`s.
If judges are being presented with the same ole, time after time then surely they call it as they see it, change doesnt shine thru.
The question re. money raised via entries is very valid, why cull entries? I reckon state entries will cull themself after the record breaking misnomer year.
I am a critic of the regime running the show no doubt. Lets keep the thread firing.


----------



## The Scientist

As a judge all I can say is bring on more entries, carpet bomb me and see if I care. I still know a good beer when I taste one and from a whole day of tasting I can always remember the few beers which stood out. No amount of carpet bombing can make up for those few beers which you can be lucky enough to get through your flight which give you that real wow factor.

I'll give constructive feed back to every beer in my flight, even if I don't like it. I take the job of judging very seriously and write comments which I would like to see on my sheets when I enter a beer of my own. I encourage anyone who is interested in improving their beer to enter into a comp (State qualifier or even your local show) and I welcome more entries with open arms as I look forward to the challenge of improving my judging ability with experiance.

At the end of the day there is only the top three which make it through to the Nats but if you get good feedback and a clear direction on how to improve your beer, then that could be you in the place getters with your next attempt. Awards are nice and all but I'm still content with a beer that might not meet any BJCP guidlines but still gives me that smile I can't wipe from my face.

To the health of our obsession and the expansion of the number of brewers into comps. It can onlt lead to better competition and better beer.

Cheers,

TS :icon_cheers:


----------



## Gulpa

haysie said:


> Andrew, being so "up" with the goings, Why hang it on SA, look in your own QLD backyard albeit very dismal results. Carpet bombing is alive and well in every state, surely morso the events organisers could do better ( wasnt that the OP?).
> Andrew, start small, enter state comps like Victoria`s English Bitter, then improve. Lead by example then hijack it. Food for thought huh



This carpet bombing thing is giving me trouble. Its a bit fuzzy. Exactly how many beers does it take to carpet bomb? Has it been quantified or is it just anybody who enters more beers than me/you.


----------



## jayse

Who wouldn't want so many beers? I envy brewers with all these beers and beer styles to enter and all I have is a couple pale ales in a keg.


----------



## samhighley

Gulpa said:


> This carpet bombing thing is giving me trouble. Its a bit fuzzy. Exactly how many beers does it take to carpet bomb? Has it been quantified or is it just anybody who enters more beers than me/you.



I would say that if you're entering a beer in every category, then you're approaching carpet bombing territory. Some brewers enter more like two beers in every category. That is definitely carpet bombing. 

I don't have any problem with it. I just wish I had that much time to brew.


----------



## floppinab

Darren said:


> Generally you get three points for a first, two for second and 1 for a third.



Throwing another spanner in the works I hate this. Getting 3 points for a 1st. 2 for a second and 1 for a third is saying the beer that got first is twice as good as that which got 2nd (twice as many points) and 3 times as good as the one that got third (three times as many points). I doubt that anyone could argue that the beers would be that much better.

I would much rather see the points scored for each of the top 3 beers in a class from the same brewer get added together to determine the individual award, a much better representation of the quality of the beers from that brewer than a 3,2,1 which we see used a lot around the place for awards but is a very poor way of determining the winner given the extra weighting applied.


----------



## dgilks

floppinab said:


> Throwing another spanner in the works I hate this. Getting 3 points for a 1st. 2 for a second and 1 for a third is saying the beer that got first is twice as good as that which got 2nd (twice as many points) and 3 times as good as the one that got third (three times as many points). I doubt that anyone could argue that the beers would be that much better.
> 
> I would much rather see the points scored for each of the top 3 beers in a class from the same brewer get added together to determine the individual award, a much better representation of the quality of the beers from that brewer than a 3,2,1 which we see used a lot around the place for awards but is a very poor way of determining the winner given the extra weighting applied.



The problem with this is that different panels of judges will score differently. Using your model, a brewer who places in 3 high scoring categories will do better than a brewer who places in 3 low scoring categories. This means that the MSB would be affected significantly by the quirks of individual judging panels.


----------



## Ross

I'm not saying anything needs to be fixed at a National level, but at our club level where we have some pretty serious prizes for champion brewer (trips to USA brewing), we are using the following criteria for selecting champion brewer.

1) All entrants are restricted to max 6 entries - Stops carpet bombing, makes you think about which beers to enter & gives us maxium entry numbers that we can plan for.
2) Only your 4 best placed beers (points: 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 1 for third) across 4 different catergorys count towards Champion Brewer - Encourages brewers to brew different styles especially where there may be fewer entries & also allows brewers that don't have the time to brew dozens of brews for comp time to have an equal chance, as they only need to brew 4 beers.

The above also helps with judging, as their are still plenty of catergorys left for participating judges to judge without juding their own.


Cheers Ross


----------



## Stuster

floppinab said:


> I would much rather see the points scored for each of the top 3 beers in a class from the same brewer get added together to determine the individual award, a much better representation of the quality of the beers from that brewer than a 3,2,1 which we see used a lot around the place for awards but is a very poor way of determining the winner given the extra weighting applied.



Why didn't you say that earlier? :angry: :lol:


----------



## Darren

Ross said:


> I'm not saying anything needs to be fixed at a National level, but at our club level where we have some pretty serious prizes for champion brewer (trips to USA brewing), we are using the following criteria for selecting champion brewer.
> 
> 1) All entrants are restricted to max 6 entries - Stops carpet bombing, makes you think about which beers to enter & gives us maxium entry numbers that we can plan for.
> 2) Only your 4 best placed beers (points: 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 1 for third) across 4 different catergorys count towards Champion Brewer - Encourages brewers to brew different styles especially where there may be fewer entries & also allows brewers that don't have the time to brew dozens of brews for comp time to have an equal chance, as they only need to brew 4 beers.
> 
> The above also helps with judging, as their are still plenty of catergorys left for participating judges to judge without juding their own.
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross




Ross,

That looks like a good model.

cheers

Darren


----------



## Josh

Peteoz77 said:


> This is all too hard...
> 
> Who has "Carpet Bombed" the local or national competitions?
> 
> How did they finish?
> 
> Was it worthwhile?


I entered 12 or so beer in the NSW Comp. I didn't think I was carpet bombing. Never actually heard this term used in this context until reading it here. I just wanted to brew many styles and have my beers judged in a good competition.

I placed 3 beers, which went to the nationals. Two of these beers went downhill and the third places 7th I think with a pretty good score. The feedback from the nationals was excellent.

It was very worthwhile. The feedback I received has already helped me in the brewery and I would encourage others to brew styles they haven't made before and get feedback. I have also located flaws in my process which can be rectified to improve the overall standard of my beers.

One final note: I have no problem with the same people winning awards. It just spurs you on to improve your own quality.


----------



## Gulpa

Darren said:


> Ross,
> 
> That looks like a good model.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Darren



OMG! Ive awakened in an alternate universe. B)


----------



## Steve

Gulpa said:


> OMG! Ive awakened in an alternate universe. B)



:lol: :lol:


----------



## Thirsty Boy

I too don't understand the "carpet bombing" argument.

I enter every single beer that I have ready into the comps.. this year it was 8, last year it was 13. I want feedback on all of them and I want to make sure that I don't decide not to enter a beer that might do well. Hell, occasionally I have entered one beer into two different categories because I wanted to know which it really was.. is it better as a slightly paired back IPA, or as a big and ballsy APA?? (note - it was terrible as either!)

I don't enter comps just to get feedback... I don't enter them just to win a prize, I enter for both reasons. I want to know what other people think of my beer, I want to know how it compares with other brewers beer.. and if someone says they are great.. have a trophy. Thats just really cool - I like it and I try to achieve it. Whats wrong with that?

If I was a tennis player, and I worked hard and entered lots of tournaments, and won a few of them and got myself called No 1 .. no one would have an issue with that. If I was a golfer and did the same.. a footy player who tries for 20 tackles a game and gets 5, isn't he a better footy player than one who tries for 6 and gets 4??... In any sport, competing a lot would just make you a "hard worker" and you would be praised for it.

Why would homebrewing be different? You make 20 beers, some are great, some are so so, some are dogs. You get hurrahs for the good ones and boos for the bad ones... as you should. If you get a little advantage in the comp because of your workrate.. well I think thats not unreasonable.

Mind you - I have some sympathy with the notion of spreading things out a bit more to applaud good brewers who don't "place". I really like the format in the ANAWBS where beers are awarded bronze, silver, gold - for reaching certain standards rather than for placing 1st 2nd or 3rd. Sure they have places in each class too, but I think the medals system emphasizes the fact that good beers are _good_ - even if they came 5th.

It makes the competition not only about competing with other brewers.. but about competing against yourself to brew at a certain standard - and rewards you for doing that, even if you aren't one of the "best"

Perhaps champion brewers could be awarded with points for each Gold, Silver or Bronze medal beer you brew.. winner or not. And we don't care if you won your class.. only 2 points for a silver medal beer. It doesn't penalize you for brewing a bad beer... but it does reward you for _every_ good beer you enter.

TB


----------



## Ross

Changing the subject for a moment...

Any idea when you'll be releasing the competitions findings on "no chill" & "BIAB" performance?


Cheers Ross


----------



## Stagger

Ross said:


> Changing the subject for a moment...
> 
> Any idea when you'll be releasing the competitions findings on "no chill" & "BIAB" performance?
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross




Ross, was only thinking about the myself yesterday, I will ask Charles if he has any results.

Craig


----------



## haysie

Stagger said:


> Ross, was only thinking about the myself yesterday, I will ask Charles if he has any results.
> 
> Craig



Lets revamp a favorite topic. Whilst we get a BIAB result? lets get an aggregate score of brewer divided by entries divide by category average divide by scores of brews entered. This itself is a scorecard not the Champion Brewer of Show award, that award is outdated. 

Correct me if, AABC is the be all and end all of Aussie Craftbrewing, the states play second fiddle and are not welcome too impose change unless as I heard on the street you come from a very western state.

So why have a qualifying at state? You dont need to, some make the rules up as they go along. Its crazy.
Stagger seems too bump the ?, its been asked before.
Sooner the eastern states stick it and make change the better. Thats my opinion and i`ll keep having one, same as why should the CUB employee be allowed to enter beers under the skirt of an amateur? Yep, heard all the arguments from the brewers without the tools.

When we get a true aggregate of brewers entries, THEN the champion brewer will show up.



edit, apologies bjcp people whom i have offended, get over it and have a look at the people coercing the show, its for insiders not outriders.


----------



## bum

haysie said:


> why should the CUB employee be allowed to enter beers under the skirt of an amateur?



Did he enter homebrew or a shop-bought VB? The answer seems pretty obvious to me.


----------



## manticle

haysie said:


> Thats my opinion and i`ll keep having one,



As you should. It would just be nice if one day, you could express it in sentences that someone who has English as a first language could actually understand.


----------



## haysie

manticle said:


> As you should. It would just be nice if one day, you could express it in sentences that someone who has English as a first language could actually understand.



Manticle, why comment? Loser brewer whom couldnt scratch 2 pennies together, Now your Manticle Palmer? Get over it ! Cant wait the day I meet you and meet the real uneducated knowitall brewer, whom claims after being the biggest novice of them all telling people in the Vic Swap how to condone their business. What a freak


----------



## manticle

Meet me and do what champ? I have no problem with you having an opinion. I just don't understand what the **** you're on about half the time. Read one of your rants aloud to someone else and see if they do.

Now you want to have a crack at my brewing? You're a rude antagonistic prick but if that's what takes your cake then good on you champ. If you really want to meet for whatever reason (drink beer, taste beer, punch me in the head because you took exception to something I wrote on the internet) then I'm not hard to find. If not then maybe you're all keyboard.

I come to this forum to talk about beer rather than pick fights. You're obviously of a different mindset.


----------



## Bribie G

Ross said:


> I'm not saying anything needs to be fixed at a National level, but at our club level where we have some pretty serious prizes for champion brewer (trips to USA brewing), we are using the following criteria for selecting champion brewer.
> 
> 1) All entrants are restricted to max 6 entries - Stops carpet bombing, makes you think about which beers to enter & gives us maxium entry numbers that we can plan for.
> 2) Only your 4 best placed beers (points: 3 for 1st, 2 for 2nd, 1 for third) across 4 different catergorys count towards Champion Brewer - Encourages brewers to brew different styles especially where there may be fewer entries & also allows brewers that don't have the time to brew dozens of brews for comp time to have an equal chance, as they only need to brew 4 beers.
> 
> The above also helps with judging, as their are still plenty of catergorys left for participating judges to judge without juding their own.
> 
> Cheers Ross



At club level, because of the restriction on number of entries I put in my strongest-competing beers in styles that I was competent in. When the State comp came round I thought "goody - now I can put in a few more and although I'm not going to get a placing with that particular beer, at least I'll get a score sheet....". In retrospect, if everyone had done that then the poor old judges and stewards would have been running around like blue arsed flies. 
However the Nats are 'self selecting' because you have to get screened in or out [edit: depending on your placings at: ] State level. Perhaps the State comps could be tightened up re carpet bombing because this is the level at which you are able to control this.


----------



## bum

haysie said:


> Manticle, why comment?



Perhaps you might be better served by this question if you direct to yourself. Why comment if you're only able to express yourself in rabid gibberish? Throw us a frigging bone and finish a sentence.


----------



## haysie

Its people like you Bum and whatshisname mantiman, that make yourself look silly. I`m tipping this will be deleted soon and so should you. Bum the asss wiper that trolls the threads looking for targets, backed by his can opening brew buddy mantiman.
Effortless Jokes.


----------



## manticle

Sorry mate I don't use a can opener and I offered to meet you if that's what you really want (no violence on my side intended either). You said it so either put your money where your fingers are or stop being a rude prick to people you've never met.


----------



## bradsbrew

BribieG said:


> At club level, because of the restriction on number of entries I put in my strongest-competing beers in styles that I was competent in. When the State comp came round I thought "goody - now I can put in a few more and although I'm not going to get a placing with that particular beer, at least I'll get a score sheet....". In retrospect, if everyone had done that then the poor old judges and stewards would have been running around like blue arsed flies.
> However the Nats are 'self selecting' because you have to get screened in or out at State level. Perhaps the State comps could be tightened up re carpet bombing because this is the level at which you are able to control this.


I dont understand what all the fuss over carpet bombing is. Even if someone enter two beers into every catergory they stiil have to have brew a good beer to get a place in a catergory. So it goes back to the scenario of what if brewer A enters ten beers and gets three first places and brewer be enters 5 beers and gets 2 first and a second, well brewer A. wins because they have 3 first places as opposed to 2. Quite simple really
I know that next year I will enter more beers across more catergories. But I will not enter any beer I don't regard as a good effort. 

Brad


----------



## bum

haysie said:


> Bum the asss wiper that trolls the threads looking for targets



Mate, if I did that (and by "that" I mean what you meant rather than what you said - trolls don't look for targets, trolls bring targets to them. But I digress...) I'd have a postcount that would put 10 Chappos to shame. My problem (in this regard) is that I just don't have the will to stop myself from telling some mouthpiece to gate up.

I do have a further confession - Haysie is correct. I do, in deed, wipe my asss [sic]. I hope this tendancy does not offend Haysie and his custy-arsed brethren too much.


----------



## haysie

Its obvious this thread is way OT, tree hugging lentil ladies and Bum arnt removing nor closing.
AABC IS GREAT!!! And its not, its crap 110%


----------



## Bribie G

bum said:


> I do have a further confession - Haysie is correct. I do, in deed, wipe my asss [sic]. I hope this tendancy does not offend Haysie and his *custy-arsed *brethren too much.



bum I think you meant to say *crusty*-arsed bum, bum. 

Did I say bum too many times? :unsure:


----------



## haysie

manticle said:


> Sorry mate I don't use a can opener and I offered to meet you if that's what you really want (no violence on my side intended either). You said it so either put your money where your fingers are or stop being a rude prick to people you've never met.



lmfao, mr can opener himself.
Lifechange huh that made you an expert.


----------



## manticle

haysie said:


> Its obvious this thread is way OT, tree hugging lentil ladies and Bum arnt removing nor closing.
> AABC IS GREAT!!! And its not, its crap 110%



So are we meeting or not? You said you couldn't wait.


----------



## clean brewer

bradsbrew said:


> I dont understand what all the fuss over carpet bombing is. Even if someone enter two beers into every catergory they stiil have to have brew a good beer to get a place in a catergory. So it goes back to the scenario of what if brewer A enters ten beers and gets three first places and brewer be enters 5 beers and gets 2 first and a second, well brewer A. wins because they have 3 first places as opposed to 2. Quite simple really
> I know that next year I will enter more beers across more catergories. But I will not enter any beer I don't regard as a good effort.
> 
> Brad


Ill be ATOM BOMBING next year :beerbang: , dont know how good the beers will be, thats for the Judges to decide....  




:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## bum

BribieG said:


> bum I think you meant to say *crusty*-arsed bum, bum.
> 
> Did I say bum too many times? :unsure:



OH BUM!!!


----------



## Bribie G

clean brewer said:


> Ill be ATOM BOMBING next year :beerbang: , dont know how good the beers will be, thats for the Judges to decide....
> View attachment 33548
> 
> 
> :icon_cheers: CB



You are too much of a gentleman for that, however if you and I do atom bomb then we will need to lend judging and stewarding support to compensate for our impertinence. More than welcome to come down and stay chez moi and we'll get in and help at the platform bar wherever it's held next year?


----------



## dr K

Oh dear, we seem to have a poster suffering from an inability to overcome his coprolalia, never fear, help is available, you just have to just past the receptionist, who, thankfully, in these cases is well seasoned.


----------



## bradsbrew

dr K said:


> Oh dear, we seem to have a poster suffering from an inability to overcome his coprolalia, never fear, help is available, you just have to just past the receptionist, who, thankfully, in these cases is well seasoned.



Cheers DrK after a quick google search another new word goes into the vocabulary!


----------



## bum

Web search or image search?


----------



## clean brewer

:lol: Coprolalia :lol: 

:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## Bribie G

coprolalia or coprophilia? however both of these are preferable to coprophagia 

eeeewwww

However living in Queensland this is normal for people living under the current state government


----------



## clean brewer

BribieG said:


> You are too much of a gentleman for that, however if you and I do atom bomb then we will need to lend judging and stewarding support to compensate for our impertinence. More than welcome to come down and stay chez moi and we'll get in and help at the platform bar wherever it's held next year?


I know Bribie, hopefully, I can get there nxt year and help out, surely im booked out already but im brewing hard for nxt year... Working on a couple styles and have 1 beer ready already....

:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## bradsbrew

clean brewer said:


> I know Bribie, hopefully, I can get there nxt year and help out, surely im booked out already but im brewing hard for nxt year... Working on a couple styles and have 1 beer ready already....
> 
> :icon_cheers: CB




Note to self .... brew barley wine soon. Well right after the RIS for next year anyway.


----------



## dr K

It is one of those words excellent to have in your lexicon, but like Sunday best, to bought out only on occasions. Personally I much prefer the colloquial "talking shit", but from time to time a truely tasteless , and our correspondent has shown him or herself so, needs to reminded of their affliction and given encouragement to seek help.

K


----------



## RdeVjun

BribieG said:


> coprolalia or coprophilia? however both of these are preferable to coprophagia
> 
> eeeewwww
> 
> However living in Queensland this is normal for people living under the current state government


 :icon_offtopic: One of my dogs is a shocker, she delights in cat crap, the older and naffer the better. Thankfully the cats usually crap where the dogs can't go... thank goodness for the anthelmintic they all get regularly.

Mmm, woof woof- cat crap! Woof woof- yum!! [slobber.. drool... c'mon dad, don't be such a spoil sport, toss it over here...] 
:icon_vomit:

Edit: Getting off topic... sorry.


----------



## clean brewer

bradsbrew said:


> Note to self .... brew barley wine soon. Well right after the RIS for next year anyway.



Note to Brad ... Dont brew Barleywine soon or ever, give CB some chance, I reckon I can wipe the Floor with Browndog next year.. h34r:  

Seriously, go hard Brad, itd be good to see some Competition there, may the best brewer win....  

Im going to do a RIS soon aswell... For the QABC of course...

:icon_cheers: CB


----------



## Bribie G

bradsbrew said:


> Note to self .... brew barley wine soon. Well right after the RIS for next year anyway.



rde, you obvously need to reduce the gravity of your beer.

Brad: who needs a one year old RIS when you can enter a 4 week old Coopers Toucan stout and still come fifth? :icon_drunk: :icon_drunk:


----------



## dr K

> Brad: who needs a one year old RIS when you can enter a 4 week old Coopers Toucan stout and still come fifth?



Thats Qld for you !!!

(gentle jibe only)

K


----------



## RdeVjun

BribieG said:


> rde, you obvously need to reduce the gravity of your beer.


It must be that flavour/ OG >1.060 thing, I think I must've forgotten something. Oh blast, it was the dilution part!  
Oh and who can talk? What was that toucan's %abv again? Ahem??!  

Thanks for the lexicon update chaps, BTW!


----------



## bradsbrew

dr K said:


> Thats Qld for you !!!
> 
> (gentle jibe only)
> 
> K



I think FatzG has taken over drK's computer.


----------



## Bribie G

dr K said:


> Thats Qld for you !!!
> 
> (gentle jibe only)
> 
> K



Sorry I meant sixth in the nats :icon_cheers: 






EDIT: yup that's the case swap mofo headbanger drink and weep :super:


----------



## dr K

Best strong stout in qld


----------



## Bribie G

dr K said:


> Best strong stout in qld



Better believe it :icon_cheers: 
Seriously I reckon the recipe is a real 'find', a bit like cold fusion or viagra or whatever. I make this 9% version with LDME, dex and finishing hops a few times a year, if you want to PM me your PO I'll send you one next time I make it. I've posted a couple to 'toucan sceptics' and they have raved over it before falling into a coma. h34r: I truly believe that Coopers are extremely committed to their stout kit as a flagship and the kit is undoubtedly the best in the 'original' range. In the late 70s their stout Fresh wort kit was a flagship and when they went on to modern concentrated kits they have kept the quality up. What better than two of them in a brew :icon_drunk:


----------



## dr K

A previous Champion beer at the AABC, if not indeed the overall champion beeer was an extract RIS. If you look through your back issues of Beer and Brewer you will find the recipe.

K


----------



## Adamt

BribieG said:


> I truly believe that Coopers are extremely committed to their stout kit as a flagship and the kit is undoubtedly the best in the 'original' range.



I think it's mainly because stouts are more forgiving than other styles for kit beers.


----------



## browndog

> Sooner the eastern states stick it and make change the better. Thats my opinion and i`ll keep having one, same as why should the CUB employee be allowed to enter beers under the skirt of an amateur? Yep, heard all the arguments from the brewers without the tools.



Haysie,

I got a second place last year, that means even more to me knowing I beat guys who do it for a living.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## schooey

RdeVjun said:


> :icon_offtopic: One of my dogs is a shocker, she delights in cat crap, the older and naffer the better. Thankfully the cats usually crap where the dogs can't go... thank goodness for the anthelmintic they all get regularly.
> 
> Mmm, woof woof- cat crap! Woof woof- yum!! [slobber.. drool... c'mon dad, don't be such a spoil sport, toss it over here...]
> :icon_vomit:
> 
> Edit: Getting off topic... sorry.



:huh: ...Dude?... wtf???

:blink:


----------



## RdeVjun

schooey said:


> :huh: ...Dude?... wtf???
> 
> :blink:


Oh jeeezz... Here try this. Follow the link... its the coprophagia- eating shit. And don't blame me, I didn't bring it up.


----------



## Darren

My objection to CARPET BOMBERS is that they should be penalised for putting a SHOCKER into a comp.

For example, if i brew 2 beers a month for 12 months I can probably enter two beers in each and every class on offer.

Now, if i cant taste a good beer from my asshole, chances are that a significant number (if I can add some malt to water boil with some hops and ferment as each and everyone of us can) will be in the range of acceptable. Chances are that some ot these beers will also be very good (especially if I had been doing this for years).

However, to raise the standard of beers entered in comps, aggregate scores given for ALL beers entered by "a brewer" in a competition surely more accurately assesses their ability to brew a good beer but also tell which one is a shocker (a beer that will kill the score for the next beer in a flight even if it is wonderful).

Why reward a brewer for entering bad beer? Surely the best brewer (at HB scale and Commercial) is one who can formulate and taste what is right and what is not?)

But, I guess it is just a crap shoot? 

Still waiting on judges of classes by state. Did I miss that or is it just coincidence that the Canberra Brewers appeared to do exceptionally well?

cheers

Darren


----------



## browndog

> Now, if i cant taste a good beer from my asshole




What a load of crap Darren.


----------



## Bribie G

browndog said:


> What a load of crap Darren.



do you mean a load of coprophagia ? h34r:


----------



## Thirsty Boy

Darren said:


> My objection to CARPET BOMBERS is that they should be penalised for putting a SHOCKER into a comp.
> 
> For example, if i brew 2 beers a month for 12 months I can probably enter two beers in each and every class on offer.
> 
> Now, if i cant taste a good beer from my asshole, chances are that a significant number (if I can add some malt to water boil with some hops and ferment as each and everyone of us can) will be in the range of acceptable. Chances are that some ot these beers will also be very good (especially if I had been doing this for years).
> 
> However, to raise the standard of beers entered in comps, aggregate scores given for ALL beers entered by "a brewer" in a competition surely more accurately assesses their ability to brew a good beer but also tell which one is a shocker (a beer that will kill the score for the next beer in a flight even if it is wonderful).
> 
> Why reward a brewer for entering bad beer? Surely the best brewer (at HB scale and Commercial) is one who can formulate and taste what is right and what is not?)



I don't disagree with a chunk of your sentiment Darren. Not even as a person who does enter a lot of beers, some good and some terrrible. If an averaging method were to penalize me for my bad beers... well that is at least partly offset by the fact that it would reward me for _all_ my good beers, not just the ones who came 1st, second or third.

The flaw I see in your logic is illustrated in your example... Say I brew 25 beers this year. Most medium/good, say 5 dogs and say 5 absolute crackers.

Under the current system I enter 25 beers - place with the 5 really good ones and maybe win champion brewer. Even though on average... I am really only a medium/good brewer.

Under your proposed averaging system - if I were smart, I only enter the 5 really good beers, which place and maybe I win champion brewer. Even though on average... I am still only a medium good brewer.

That's not judging my ability to brew a good beer and thus my suitability to be called a "champion brewer" - its only judging my ability to tell that I have brewed a good beer. Its just substituting my own ability to judge beer quality, for the ability of the judges to do the same. In the case of someone with the skills and palate to win under either scheme.. I suspect that the difference in the two would be quite minimal and thus the results would be pretty close to the same.

So while I see the merit in an averaging system from a perceived fairness point of view - I'm not convinced that it would have the results you are looking for.

I personally think I would prefer the current system because it doesn't force me to choose between wanting to win, and wanting to have all my beers independently evaluated. At the moment I am happy to enter the slightly left of center beer, with the unusual ingredient or technique... just to see what people think of it, even though I know its not a fantastic beer - and I'm also willing to enter the trainwreck beer that has me scratching my head... "what the hell is that damn flavour that's ruining my beer???" Under an averaging system, I could still do that - but if I did I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I ever wanted to have a hope of "Champion Brewer"

An averaging system would perhaps be more "fair" from a purely competitive point of view, but I think it would change the complexion of the comps, emphasizing win/lose/draw and de-emphasizing the other purpose of the comps, which is their value as learning tools for the brewers who enter.

I'd happily enter under either scheme and call it fair enough for me, the chances of me winning champion brewer either way are pretty bloody small.

TB


----------



## Duffbowl

Darren said:


> Still waiting on judges of classes by state. Did I miss that or is it just coincidence that the Canberra Brewers appeared to do exceptionally well?


I was pouring on the Saturday, and I'm fairly sure that at least half the judges came from interstate (based on the fact that I didn't recognise them).

To claim that the Canberra Brewers did well because we held the Nationals this year is a bit rich.

2008 - Held in Victoria. Victoria 1st, NSW and ACT tied for 2nd. Champion brewer from the ACT.
2007 - Held in NSW. Victoria 1st, NSW 2nd, ACT 3rd. Champion brewer and Beer of Show from the ACT.
2006 - Held in Victoria. ACT 1st, Victoria 2nd, SA 3rd. Champion brewer and Beer of Show from the ACT.

2005 and earlier, Best State wasn't declared, and I can't be arsed working out the points. However, for a region with less then 350,000 potential brewers, we seem to do alright wherever the comps are held. Makes the entrants from the ACTABC either exceptionally lucky, or good brewers.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

bradsbrew said:


> I think FatzG has taken over drK's computer.




Nein .. all New South Welshmen talk of Qld in that way !



With so many different arguments here, a lot of people are ranting over trivial matters. So I'll throw mine in. I'm sick to death of this carpet bombing crap being spewed out. My opinion is that any brewer who can submit any number of beers over a wide range of styles into competitions and achieve good results should be proud because that testifies to their ability to brew. 

I am amazed anyone has the time / desire / ability to brew as many beers as some make and that they can present as many beers as some do at state and national championships in a condition to be competitive. I can't (and don't want to anyway) and I'll guess 99% of brewers can't or don't want to either. However the fact that a couple of men are the regular contenders and holders of the "AABC Champion Brewer Award" does not make them the best brewers in Australia, merely the people who can put the most successful beers into a competition. The terms of the competions are there, they follow them, they win the prize offered them under competition rules. I'm pretty certain none of these men is that vain to think this success at AABC makes them "Australia's Best Home Brewer" - they are merely competing at a level they can achieve for the enjoyment they get from their hobby. 

I'm happy to read arguments to change these rules because no rule or law will ever be amended, repealed or introduced unless people express their opinions. But I get upset that people come out with outlandish comments such as the "carpet bombing" which whether directly intended to or not, is an insult to these men. They put up and shut up. It's time a few people took their example - improve your brewing and put up, and shut up.


----------



## Maxt

Duffbowl said:


> I was pouring on the Saturday, and I'm fairly sure that at least half the judges came from interstate (based on the fact that I didn't recognise them).
> 
> To claim that the Canberra Brewers did well because we held the Nationals this year is a bit rich.
> 
> 2008 - Held in Victoria. Victoria 1st, NSW and ACT tied for 2nd. Champion brewer from the ACT.
> 2007 - Held in NSW. Victoria 1st, NSW 2nd, ACT 3rd. Champion brewer and Beer of Show from the ACT.
> 2006 - Held in Victoria. ACT 1st, Victoria 2nd, SA 3rd. Champion brewer and Beer of Show from the ACT.
> 
> 2005 and earlier, Best State wasn't declared, and I can't be arsed working out the points. However, for a region with less then 350,000 potential brewers, we seem to do alright wherever the comps are held. Makes the entrants from the ACTABC either exceptionally lucky, or good brewers.



I think if you dug a bit deeper you would find that the AABC organised the WTC attack and the faked moon landing. It's all there people, when will you open your eyes?
 

I stand by my comments that if you are good enough to get many beers through to the Nats, then you are a class brewer. End of story. An interesting exercise would be to look at the carpet baggers beers at the state level, and see how many of their beers were dogs. I would imagine very very few. Why? Because they are class brewers (as evidenced by their 1st, 2nd or 3rd place results).


----------



## bradsbrew

Are there any changes to the classes for 2010 just looked at the AABC site and its all relative to 2009. I thought that there was to be a couple of changes. If we are to brew to style guidelines best to state the guidelines early.

Cheers Brad


----------



## Ross

bradsbrew said:


> Are there any changes to the classes for 2010 just looked at the AABC site and its all relative to 2009. I thought that there was to be a couple of changes. If we are to brew to style guidelines best to state the guidelines early.
> 
> Cheers Brad




All the same except for one addition "Australian Bitter". If it's not already on the site it should be shortly.

Cheers Ross


----------



## Bribie G

Ross said:


> All the same except for one addition "Australian Bitter". If it's not already on the site it should be shortly.
> 
> Cheers Ross





????? :blink: 

I'll be interested to see how Australian Bitter differs from an Aussie Pale. Are there any commercial examples? Apart from the SCB version?


----------



## jayse

BribieG said:


> View attachment 38206
> ????? :blink:
> 
> I'll be interested to see how Australian Bitter differs from an Aussie Pale. Are there any commercial examples? Apart from the SCB version?



Australian bitter would have to be a lager if you want an example go to any pub.


----------



## Weizguy

BribieG said:


> View attachment 38206
> ????? :blink:
> 
> I'll be interested to see how Australian Bitter differs from an Aussie Pale. Are there any commercial examples? Apart from the SCB version?


Bribie, your wish is my command. You will have to do the comparison, though:

6.5 Australian Pale Ale
Appearance: Best examples will display good clarity, gold to amber colour, with a persistent snow white head
supported by brisk carbonation from bottle conditioning.
Aroma: Fruity yeast-derived aromas most prominent, with light, sweet pale malt underneath. Hop aroma low to
none. No diacetyl.
Flavour: Medium to high fruitiness, often pear-like. Supported by light, bready pale malt flavour. Caramel malt
flavours out of style. Banana ester from high fermentation temperature may be noticed, but should not dominate. A
mild but distinctive peppery, herbaceous flavour from Pride of Ringwood hops is desirable. Medium to high
bitterness - may be higher in historical versions, but not crude or harsh. Long dry finish from extremely high
attenuation, with a balanced fruity aftertaste.
Body & Mouthfeel: Light to medium-light body - any impression of palate fullness from residual dextrins should
be penalized.
Clean, crisp mouthfeel may be enhanced by spritzy carbonation.
Overall Impression: A lively, fruity Pale Ale with surprising lightness of body, solid bitterness, and a refreshing
dry finish well suited to a hot climate. Can be thought of as a light Burton IPA without the dry-hopping. Relies
on yeast character to compensate for diminished late hop expression - bland examples lacking fruitiness should be
considered out of style.
Comments: Historical style defined by Coopers ales as the last surviving examples: Coopers ales, all heavily
sedimented and very fruity, are Australian classics Michael Jackson.
Note: Colonial brewers strived for pale beer clarity to match imports - entries will be poured quietly without
rousing sediment.
History: Basic version of Burton pale ale produced throughout the early colonies, as British settlers established the
first Australian breweries in the mid-19th century. Developed to compete with expensive Burton imports Bass,
Allsopp, Ind Coope IPA, using Burton yeast strains of the day, with domestic barley and hops and available native
water. Inferior colonial malt often led to inclusion of sugar. Bottled for local sale, not dry-hopped and aged for
export, Australian pale ales were prevalent by late century, with 350 breweries operating by 1890. Commonly
relabeled Sparkling Ale (UK term coined for present-use domestic pale ale). Superceded by Bitter Ale after
introduction of crystal malt during early 20th century. Ale brewing grew obsolete as industry consolidation spawned
a lager-based duopoly - by 1985 only family owned Coopers brewery remained independent. Established 1862 in
Adelaide SA, successive generations preserved Coopers flagship Sparkling Ale using traditional brewing methods,
including open fermentation and maturation in oak casks. Removal to modern plant in 2001 improved clarity while
maintaining original formulation: all-malt, Burton yeast, Australian hops, absent late hopping, bottle conditioning.
First released on draught 1985, naturally conditioned in keg. A lighter version, brewed periodically since 1880s,
was re-launched in 1989. Also worlds largest homebrew supplier, Coopers pioneered kit-beer products soon after
legalization in 1973.
Indgredients: Lightly kilned Australian 2-row pale malt, lager varieties typical. Judicious use of crystal malt for
colour adjustment. Small proportion of wheat may assist head retention. No adjuncts, cane sugar for priming only.
Australian hops, esp. Pride of Ringwood (absent late hopping). Highly attenuative Burton style yeast, eg. Coopers,
Worthingtons. Multiple strains common historically (none available commercially, must be cultured from bottle
sediment) Variable water profile - low carbonate, moderate sulphate preferred.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBU ABV
1.035-1.050 1.004-1.006 25-40 4.26%
Commercial Examples: Coopers Sparkling Ale (5.8% ABV),
Coopers Original Pale Ale (4.5% ABV)

8.1. Australian Bitter Ale
Appearance: Amber to pale copper; bright clarity; moderate white head supported by very high carbonation.
Aroma: Light fruity esters with a background caramel note. Hop aroma low to none. No diacetyl.
Flavour: Moderately fruity, with a light caramel malt flavour. A distinctive peppery, herbaceous note from Pride of
Ringwood hops should be noticed. Malty sweetness should be low, tipping the balance firmly towards bitterness,
without being aggressively bitter. Medium-dry finish, with a predominantly fruity/bitter aftertaste. Trace
fusels/phenols from high sucrose fermentation may contribute a tangy flavour note, often considered
characteristic of Australian style beer. If present this character should not be perceived as sharp or solventy.
Mouthfeel: Light to medium-light body, with a noticeable carbonation prickle, particularly when served chilled.
Overall Impression: A crisp, light flavoured, thirst-quenching Bitter, ideally suited to a hot climate. Traditionally
served well chilled and highly carbonated, accentuating the characteristic tangy hop bitterness.
History: Definitive Australian style, evolved directly from colonial era Pale Ale/Sparkling Ale as crystal malt was
introduced during early 20th century. Originated independently of English Bitter, and remained a bottled style
exclusively. Developed as a narrow style, typified by a handful of State-based brands, using a high proportion of
cane sugar, high-alpha domestic hops, and standard Australian ale yeast (originally isolated 1888 at Victoria
Brewery in Melbourne). Dominant bottled style by mid-century, with major brands exported. Converted to lager
yeast during late 20th century, as megabrewers standardized production with draught lagers. Modern Bitter remains
by far Australias biggest selling packaged beer style, and following draught release in 1992, market leader Victoria
Bitter now accounts for one quarter of total Australian beer sales.
Comments: Style refers to the traditional ale version of Australian Bitter, commonly labelled Bitter Ale prior to
lager conversion during late 20th century. Note: 2005 heritage release VB Original Ale is an all-malt English style
Bitter and should not be considered prototypical of the Australian style.
Ingredients: Australian 2-row lager malt. Restrained use of crystal malt for colour and flavour. Substantial
proportion of cane sugar, typically around 30%, for light body and signature fermentation profile. Pride of
Ringwood hops, bittering addition only. CUB ale yeast or similar. Attenuative English or American strains most
suitable. Note: Whitelabs WLP009 Australian Ale yeast (Coopers strain) is unsuitable. Variable water profile, soft
Pilsen type preferred.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs ABV
1038-1048 1005-1008 25-35 4.2-5.2%
Commercial Examples: The major Bitter Ale brand names have survived but the modern versions are all lagers
and the term Ale has been dropped from labelling (eg. Victoria Bitter, Melbourne Bitter, Castlemaine XXXX
Bitter, Tooheys Red Bitter, West End Bitter, Emu Bitter, Cascade Bitter, Boags Strongarm Bitter).


----------



## browndog

So rule D2 says that you are allowed to enter two beers into each category, but only one per style in the said category. My question is, how doe this apply to the american pale ale class as it is the only beer in the category.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Bribie G

browndog said:


> So rule D2 says that you are allowed to enter two beers into each category, but only one per style in the said category. My question is, how doe this apply to the american pale ale class as it is the only beer in the category.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



You are correct. And more to the point where has American Amber Ale gone?

These Mexicans have been giving the Tequila a bit too much of a bashing, methinks. And also to the point, as we are using the Nat guidelines for the State comp where indeed is the Amber for next fortnight ???????


----------



## Nick JD

Can someone please explain to me the difference between the two styles of Australian Lager and Australian Bitter Ale (Lager)? 

Or is it just semantics?


----------



## Bribie G

I missed this when it was posted:

8.1. Australian Bitter Ale
Appearance: Amber to pale copper; bright clarity; moderate white head supported by very high carbonation.
Aroma: Light fruity esters with a background caramel note. Hop aroma low to none. No diacetyl.
Flavour: Moderately fruity, with a light caramel malt flavour. A distinctive peppery, herbaceous note from Pride of
Ringwood hops should be noticed. Malty sweetness should be low, tipping the balance firmly towards bitterness,
without being aggressively bitter. Medium-dry finish, with a predominantly fruity/bitter aftertaste. Trace
fusels/phenols from high sucrose fermentation may contribute a tangy flavour note, often considered
characteristic of Australian style beer. If present this character should not be perceived as sharp or solventy.
Mouthfeel: Light to medium-light body, with a noticeable carbonation prickle, particularly when served chilled.
Overall Impression: A crisp, light flavoured, thirst-quenching Bitter, ideally suited to a hot climate. Traditionally
served well chilled and highly carbonated, accentuating the characteristic tangy hop bitterness.
History: Definitive Australian style, evolved directly from colonial era Pale Ale/Sparkling Ale as crystal malt was
introduced during early 20th century. Originated independently of English Bitter, and remained a bottled style
exclusively. Developed as a narrow style, typified by a handful of State-based brands, using a high proportion of
cane sugar, high-alpha domestic hops, and standard Australian ale yeast (originally isolated 1888 at Victoria
Brewery in Melbourne). Dominant bottled style by mid-century, with major brands exported. Converted to lager
yeast during late 20th century, as megabrewers standardized production with draught lagers. Modern Bitter remains
by far Australias biggest selling packaged beer style, and following draught release in 1992, market leader Victoria
Bitter now accounts for one quarter of total Australian beer sales.
Comments: Style refers to the traditional ale version of Australian Bitter, commonly labelled Bitter Ale prior to
lager conversion during late 20th century. Note: 2005 heritage release VB Original Ale is an all-malt English style
Bitter and should not be considered prototypical of the Australian style.
Ingredients: Australian 2-row lager malt. Restrained use of crystal malt for colour and flavour. Substantial
proportion of cane sugar, typically around 30%, for light body and signature fermentation profile. Pride of
Ringwood hops, bittering addition only. CUB ale yeast or similar. Attenuative English or American strains most
suitable. Note: Whitelabs WLP009 Australian Ale yeast (Coopers strain) is unsuitable. Variable water profile, soft
Pilsen type preferred.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs ABV
1038-1048 1005-1008 25-35 4.2-5.2%
Commercial Examples: The major Bitter Ale brand names have survived but the modern versions are all lagers
and the term Ale has been dropped from labelling (eg. Victoria Bitter, Melbourne Bitter, Castlemaine XXXX
Bitter, Tooheys Red Bitter, West End Bitter, Emu Bitter, Cascade Bitter, Boags Strongarm Bitter).


_Comments: Style refers to the traditional ale version of Australian Bitter, commonly labelled Bitter Ale prior to
lager conversion during late 20th century._

As Wikipedia says "Citation Needed"

Who wrote the above claptrap and can they supply *evidence* that any of the mainstream breweries brewed ale versions of VB etc up to the late 20th century? I've been here since mid 70s and never encountered any of the fantasy beers referred to. ????????????


----------



## Sunshine_Brewer

BribieG said:


> I
> 
> _Comments: Style refers to the traditional ale version of Australian Bitter, commonly labelled Bitter Ale prior to
> lager conversion during late 20th century._
> 
> As Wikipedia says "Citation Needed"
> 
> Who wrote the above claptrap and can they supply *evidence* that any of the mainstream breweries brewed ale versions of VB etc up to the late 20th century? I've been here since mid 70s and never encountered any of the fantasy beers referred to. ????????????



I may be wrong but VB original seems to fit that description, a shame its not brewed anymore. <_<


----------



## Nick JD

This will probably be like Bundaberg Rum trying ever so hard to subtly shift its brand from a Rum matured in American Oak to one matured in Red Gum - because they can't get hold of more Oak cheap.

In 2028, we'll sit at the bar and say, "Hey, whatever happened to Bundy Gold? You know, the one with the yellow label?" 

It got eaten up in the name of profit and the suckers didn't even know thier product was being degraded in taste but not cost. 

Welcome to the ever-shifting line in the sand known as consumer stupidity.

By 2056 Australian Lager will actually taste like sewer water - and the ratrace will be lapping it up.  

I'd love to taste an Australian Bitter Ale. Who's got a recipe?


----------



## bconnery

Sunshine_Brewer said:


> I may be wrong but VB original seems to fit that description, a shame its not brewed anymore. <_<


Except the style guidelines specifically say that this isn't an example...
I did enjoy the beer as well though...

It seemed to me when I read they style guidelines that this appeared an attempt to resurrect a historical style, similar to what happened with the Classic American Pilsner perhaps (although I'm not certain of the history of the rebirth of this style but I believe it was mostly through homebrew). 

My reading of the guidelines is that you have to just read them and attempt something based on the description, as there are no commercial examples. 

I'm undecided as to whether I really agree with the idea or the style but that's my reading of what is being attempted...


----------



## Bribie G

Sunshine_Brewer said:


> I may be wrong but VB original seems to fit that description, a shame its not brewed anymore. <_<



yes but according to the style guide it'a a fake

Note: 2005 heritage release VB Original Ale is an all-malt English style
Bitter and should not be considered prototypical of the Australian style.


Personally I think this new style is a wind up


----------



## Sunshine_Brewer

bconnery said:


> I'm undecided as to whether I really agree with the idea or the style but that's my reading of what is being attempted...



Yeah it is a confusing style guide.  

VB Original fits the guide so well, but maybe it was a bit malty for style :lol:


----------



## bconnery

BribieG said:


> You are correct. And more to the point where has American Amber Ale gone?
> 
> These Mexicans have been giving the Tequila a bit too much of a bashing, methinks. And also to the point, as we are using the Nat guidelines for the State comp where indeed is the Amber for next fortnight ???????


American Amber hasn't been there for at least 2 years, this and last, not sure about before that. 

When we BJCPd / AABCd the BABBS comp we put American Amber in knowing it would be a style that a number of brewers brewed but I believe the number entered across the years hasn't been huge and always dwarfed by pale...


----------



## Bribie G

If someone is trying to resurrect a style then that's good, like resurrecting the Cornish Language. However I'm not convinced that there is such a style to be actually resurrected. As one of the older members of AHB I have been drinking beer in Australia since the 70s and as a former CAMRA member, home brewer and LHBS proprietor I have always taken a keen interest in the beers on offer (never having been a VB or XXXX only megadrinker). I was also fortunate to have lived through the QLD Beer Strike of around 30 years ago and at that time just about every rag tag and surplus beer in the country was directed at QLD including stuff like Southwark Green Death and Coopers Big Barrel Lager. If there was an ale in that lot then please let me know.

I think this or these guys are trying to resurrect BigFoot, the Yeti and Leprechauns.


----------



## Nick JD

Mmmmm, Yeti Fur Ale.


----------



## Bribie G

8.1. Australian Bullock Driver Grog
Appearance: Orange and cloudy
Aroma: Yeasty and hint of skunk
Flavour: Sharp, sometimes acidic and very reminiscent of fusel oil from the short pail-fermented primary, with no secondary.
Mouthfeel: Bypasses the mouth due to being dry as a dead dingo's donger and this stuff anoints the tonsils after
a long haul of Candlewood with a team of eight down the ranges all day in Summer heat from Dorrigo. 
History: Definitive Australian style, evolved directly from colonial era prison hooch.
Comments: Style refers to the traditional almost poisonous stuff they had to drink when good honest Queensland Rum was unavailable or 
out of reach of the lousy pittance paid to bullockies in the mid to late 19th Century, particularly during the 90s Depression.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs ABV
1090-2000 1005-1008 10-2 8.0-9.0%
Commercial Examples: The major Bullocky brand names have survived but the modern versions are all lagers
and the term Ale has been dropped from labelling (eg. Kestrel Lager, Skol Superlager, Steel Reserve American Malt Liquor)


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

BribieG said:


> do you mean a load of coprophagia ? h34r:



Just had a squizz on Wikipedia ROFL :lol: 



BribieG said:


> You are correct. And more to the point where has American Amber Ale gone?
> 
> These Mexicans have been giving the Tequila a bit too much of a bashing, methinks. And also to the point, as we are using the Nat guidelines for the State comp where indeed is the Amber for next fortnight ???????





Amber has been sought of missing for two years? I brewed an Amber this year for SABSOSA but then when I went hunting for the class in AABC  . So now I will be entering it in the American pale class. The colour range in the Pale class is quite broad. I doooooo hope the judges really take that into account. I now have an APA and a APA / Amber. Need to decide on which one to enter since I can't enter both?
7.1 American Pale Ale [BJCP]
Appearance: Pale golden to deep amber. Moderately large white
to off-white head with good retention.


BYB


----------



## browndog

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Just had a squizz on Wikipedia ROFL :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amber has been sought of missing for two years? I brewed an Amber this year for SABSOSA but then when I went hunting for the class in AABC  . So now I will be entering it in the American pale class. The colour range in the Pale class is quite broad. I doooooo hope the judges really take that into account. I now have an APA and a APA / Amber. Need to decide on which one to enter since I can't enter both?
> 7.1 American Pale Ale [BJCP]
> Appearance: Pale golden to deep amber. Moderately large white
> to off-white head with good retention.
> 
> 
> BYB




Noone has answered if we can enter two beers in the APA category yet!


-BD


----------



## Frank

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Amber has been sought of missing for two years? I brewed an Amber this year for SABSOSA but then when I went hunting for the class in AABC  . So now I will be entering it in the American pale class. The colour range in the Pale class is quite broad. I doooooo hope the judges really take that into account. I now have an APA and a APA / Amber. Need to decide on which one to enter since I can't enter both?
> 7.1 American Pale Ale [BJCP]
> Appearance: Pale golden to deep amber. Moderately large white
> to off-white head with good retention.


Have a look at 9.5 American Brown Ale. The colour range is fairly broad and probably closer than an APA if you are on the darker end.


----------



## The Scientist

browndog said:


> Noone has answered if we can enter two beers in the APA category yet!
> 
> 
> -BD



The way I read it, you can't enter two. 

"No more than two entries are allowed from each entrant in any one Category.
Within this rule, no more than one entry is allowed in any one style.".

The rule kinda contradicts itself but if you break it down there is only one style so only one entry. 

<_<


----------



## The Scientist

Which reminds me all you QLDers who want to qualify for the AABC make sure your entries are in this weekend:

Entries are to be delivered by 1.00pm the 28th August to: CraftBrewer and Brewers Choice shops.

If you are after more info follow the below link:

http://www.qabc.org.au/

Cheers,

TS


----------



## Bribie G

browndog said:


> Noone has answered if we can enter two beers in the APA category yet!
> 
> 
> -BD



Bd there is no way you could better that one you put into BABBs - I can taste it now. At the judging table we were moaning like whores, would never have picked it as yours as it was less than 80 IBU. :wacko:\ 
If you entered two, we would probably have to get St John in for the occasion. B)


----------



## browndog

BribieG said:


> Bd there is no way you could better that one you put into BABBs - I can taste it now. At the judging table we were moaning like whores, would never have picked it as yours as it was less than 80 IBU. :wacko:\
> If you entered two, we would probably have to get St John in for the occasion. B)



Hmmmm......... decisions, decisions...


----------



## Paul H

browndog said:


> Hmmmm......... decisions, decisions...



I can come over & trial them for you Tony>  

Cheers

Paul


----------



## Mark H

The Scientist said:


> The way I read it, you can't enter two.
> 
> "No more than two entries are allowed from each entrant in any one Category.
> Within this rule, no more than one entry is allowed in any one style.".
> 
> The rule kinda contradicts itself but if you break it down there is only one style so only one entry.
> 
> <_<



That's right - only one entry in the APA category because there's only one style.

Mark H
AABC competition organiser


----------



## browndog

truck said:


> That's right - only one entry in the APA category because there's only one style.
> 
> Mark H
> AABC competition organiser




Thanks Mark.


----------



## bradsbrew

Anyone have a link to an address for sending my entries to AABC??

Cheers Brad


----------



## jakub76

bradsbrew said:


> Anyone have a link to an address for sending my entries to AABC??
> 
> Cheers Brad


It's on the entry form.
http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/EntryFormAABC2010.doc


----------



## bradsbrew

jakub76 said:


> It's on the entry form.
> http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/EntryFormAABC2010.doc




Cheers


----------



## bradsbrew

Not long now. Hopefully my entries made it all the way to mexico.


----------



## MattC

Yes the trust we have in the postal service!!!!!

:huh:


----------



## samhaldane

So the judging is underway. Anyone know when we can expect to know the results? 

Do we need to wait until after the ANHC Gala dinner on saturday night?


----------



## bradsbrew

haldini said:


> So the judging is underway. Anyone know when we can expect to know the results?
> 
> Do we need to wait until after the ANHC Gala dinner on saturday night?



Look out Captain Wadey will go off at you.


----------



## bradsbrew

Peter Wadey said:


> Jebus, how old are some of you guys?
> Have you become so used to instant gratification that you require up to date information on everything?
> Get a grip!
> The people organising such things have much more important things to do than just pander to the requirements of the web community.
> Get involved and you might have a different perspective on things.
> 
> And in case you were wondering,
> Yes I do have a beer entered (didn't drink them all this year apparently).
> Yes I have been involved before.
> Yes I was around before children were given access to ARPANET.
> 
> Wadey
> Yes, my real name, not some anonymous internet handle.






haldini said:


> So the judging is underway. Anyone know when we can expect to know the results?
> 
> Do we need to wait until after the ANHC Gala dinner on saturday night?



Not having a go at you Haldini. Pretty sure we have to wait til satruday night.

Cheers


----------



## samhaldane

What? No AABC twitter account giving a running commentary?
</jokes>

Heh. I wasn't trying to come across as annoyingly Gen Y.

I don't really mind if it's today or next week, was just wondering when it will be.

Saturday night is perfect, as I'll be at the gala dinner :icon_cheers:


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

haldini said:


> What? No AABC twitter account giving a running commentary?
> </jokes>


 h34r: 
I'll admit I did actual go looking for the Twitter feed for both aabc and anhc........
Damn 2010, damn it to hell with it's twitters and facebooks.


----------



## bradsbrew

So at the risk of being impatient and childish. 

Any hints on when the results will be posted up, either here or on the AABC website??


----------



## Bribie G

IIRC last year they got posted early to mid week. P.U.B.S down the street from you did well, I believe Lyall took out the Bo Pils, on North Pine Dam water as well :blink:


----------



## mikem108

:icon_cheers: Congratulations to Kelly and Graham... great brewing guys


----------



## jayse

full result are out, should be on the website shortly, at least by the morning I imagine.


----------



## Bribie G

BribieG said:


> IIRC last year they got posted early to mid week. P.U.B.S down the street from you did well, I believe Lyall took out the Bo Pils, on North Pine Dam water as well :blink:


Not to mention champion brewer and best beer of the show  well done Lyall. Also Browndog who surely helped tip QLD over the line, we are now No. 3 State, as opposed to coming in last in 2009 :beerbang:


----------



## jayse

full results from here


----------



## AndrewQLD

Congratulations Lyall,Tony,Graeme, Neil and David. Fantastic results and a great effort by all the Qlders. Lyall you must be over the moon, well done.
Thanks to the organizers, Judges and Stewards.
Congrats to all other place getters too.

Andrew


----------



## brettprevans

congrats to all the winners. looks like a very high standard

I'd also like to point out to all the purist yeast nazis who claim dry yeast is crap..... 5 winning entries used standrad dry yeast,.


----------



## Fourstar

citymorgue2 said:


> I'd also like to point out to all the purist yeast nazis who claim dry yeast is crap..... 5 winning entries used standrad dry yeast,.



slightly :icon_offtopic: but highly relevant.

im sure they handled their yeast and more so prepared it correctly too. :icon_cheers: 

This isnt a dry yeast bash and you will see why. Dry yeast is completely fine assuming you handle it correctly and pitch it at correct rates.

I overheard some interesting information that Chris White (whitelabs) was discussing regarding the use of dry yeast. I believe he estimated cell death of dry yeast if not rehydrated of close to 50%. AKA pitching direct to fermenter.

Now using that information, see the following. The dry yeast packets state on their spec sheet each packet contains 11.5g of yeast and the viability at packaging is 6 * 10 ^ 9 (6 billion cells per g) which equates to 69 billion cells in a packet.

What do whitelabs and wyeast have as a starting point? Around 31% more viable cells in a fresh smack pack/vial. (wyeast state 100 billion cells, whitelabs between 70 -140 billion cells.)

Now the figures above are assuming you pitch the dry yeast after rehydrating. If not, that figure could be closer to 65% less yeast if you decide to sprinkle the dry yeast directly onto the wort.


Now if we think about correct cell pitching rates, what cell count do you need for a 1.050OG 20L wort?

750000*20000*12.5 = 187.5 billion cells.

At worst, one non-rehydrated dry yeast pack will get you to 18%~ of that recommended cell count.
one smack pack/vial assuming 100% viability of a liquid culture at 100 billion cells = 53% if your cell count.

I know what option i would choose.

Smack pack + 1L starter. For those fond of dry yeast, atleast two *rehydrated *US05 packets.


----------



## Bribie G

OT... that's why I always use the repacks from a sponsor and pitch both sides, especially with lagers.
On Topic .... Thanks for the fifth place (out of 16) for the dry Stout, fourstar, - great to have done so well in a national comp after only 2 years AG - love my BAG :lol: Hope mine wasn't the one that upset your tum tum


----------



## Fourstar

BribieG said:


> On Topic .... Thanks for the fifth place (out of 16) for the dry Stout, fourstar, - great to have done so well in a national comp after only 2 years AG - love my BAG :lol: Hope mine wasn't the one that upset your tum tum



no problems i suppose. Unfortunatly i can't remember it. The biggest issue with the drys where poor malt complexity/ balance and lack of creamyness/mouthfeel. alot of them just tasted acrid and roasty. No coffee in particular and a lack lustre aroma which was a little disappointing. A few where also suited to being a FES as they seemed to be abit big for style.

The one that came second overall IMO was a better beer to my plate but lost out to the oatmeal which was simply a better beer style-wise.


----------



## raven19

Congratulations to all the winners, and well done to the organisers, judges and stewards.


----------



## Bribie G

Fourstar said:


> no problems i suppose. Unfortunatly i can't remember it. The biggest issue with the drys where poor malt complexity/ balance and lack of creamyness/mouthfeel. alot of them just tasted acrid and roasty. No coffee in particular and a lack lustre aroma which was a little disappointing. A few where also suited to being a FES as they seemed to be abit big for style.
> 
> The one that came second overall IMO was a better beer to my plate but lost out to the oatmeal which was simply a better beer style-wise.



My grain bill was 
4000 GP
500 flaked barley
600 RB added at mashout
330 carapils
250 amber
250 choc chit
100 carafa 2 and not a ricez or a sugaz in sight :lol: 65.5 degree mash. 

It was brewed on 23 June. In your opinion would a dry stout do better if presented younger? or maybe mashed a tad higher for less dryness? This one was best stout in the BABBs comp, came in third in the State and went somewhat downhill after that :lol:


----------



## mxd

mmm, 40 point drop for Vic Brew, will keep trying and entering


----------



## BrenosBrews

mxd said:


> mmm, 40 point drop for Vic Brew, will keep trying and entering



Yeah, my beer that won Specialty at Vicbrew came 3rd last at AABC. Oh well. Will be very interesting to see a judging sheet from Randy Mosher :beerbang: That guy's presentations were COOL :super:


----------



## clarkey7

AndrewQLD said:


> Congratulations Lyall,Tony,Graeme, Neil and David. Fantastic results and a great effort by all the Qlders. Lyall you must be over the moon, well done.
> Thanks to the organizers, Judges and Stewards.
> Congrats to all other place getters too.
> 
> Andrew


Big Congratulations to you too Andrew,

WD on taking out a category. :icon_chickcheers: 

This makes it trophys each of the last 3 years for you.

I take my hat off mate :beerbang: 

NOTE - Gordon Strong judged that bitter......Can't wait to try it next time your down this way....

PB

Edit - spelling


----------



## Fourstar

BribieG said:


> It was brewed on 23 June. In your opinion would a dry stout do better if presented younger? or maybe mashed a tad higher for less dryness?



This, coupled with an appropriate yeast would tick all the boxes i'd say. im also guessing the roast grain character is a little too OTT due to the % people use from the colours observed (jet black in most cases). the next stout i make, i'll ring up a recipe and whatever % of roast barley i think is appropriate, i'll dial it back by 1/3 and add a touch 1%~ of someth else highly kilned for a neuance of complexity.

The style notes that the roast character should be moderate and i think by reducing the % it helps you pickup more of the subtleties in the flavour as well instead of just 'burnt' or 'acrid'. kinda like how you soften a whiskey/whisky with a touch of water to open it up. i think it really helps.

I guess a way you could test this with any beers you have on hand is by blending and thinning it out with something like a english pale ale until it opens up for you.

just throwing around some ideas.


----------



## Kodos

Fourstar said:


> The one that came second overall IMO was a better beer to my plate but lost out to the oatmeal which was simply a better beer style-wise.



Cheers Fourstar! :icon_cheers: (I hope you licked your "plate" clean  )

I look forward to reading your comments.

I was pretty stoked with the result given it was my first year of competition and my first-ever stout.
It's such a simple, honest style, the only thing I can suggest to others trying it is keep the recipe simple and look after the yeast/fermentation etc. 


And Congrats to all my ACT comrades - you guys rock! Defending our Champion State title by a bigger margin than last year and no-one can suggest it was because of a home-ground advantage.


----------



## Fourstar

Kodos said:


> Cheers Fourstar! :icon_cheers: (I hope you licked your "plate" clean  )
> 
> I look forward to reading your comments.
> 
> I was pretty stoked with the result given it was my first year of competition and my first-ever stout.
> It's such a simple, honest style, the only thing I can suggest to others trying it is keep the recipe simple and look after the yeast/fermentation etc.



Cheers mate, I really enjoyed your beer! 

Yes my 'plate' was licked clean, very enjoyable. I would like to see your recipe if you wouldn't mind? (can PM if you want to keep private) Interested on what you used for that balance as you had a little something that just stood out from the rest of the pack. Very nice work indeed.


----------



## DanRayner

Fourstar said:


> slightly :icon_offtopic: but highly relevant.
> 
> im sure they handled their yeast and more so prepared it correctly too. :icon_cheers:
> 
> This isnt a dry yeast bash and you will see why. Dry yeast is completely fine assuming you handle it correctly and pitch it at correct rates.
> 
> I overheard some interesting information that Chris White (whitelabs) was discussing regarding the use of dry yeast. I believe he estimated cell death of dry yeast if not rehydrated of close to 50%. AKA pitching direct to fermenter.
> 
> Now using that information, see the following. The dry yeast packets state on their spec sheet each packet contains 11.5g of yeast and the viability at packaging is 6 * 10 ^ 9 (6 billion cells per g) which equates to 69 billion cells in a packet.
> 
> What do whitelabs and wyeast have as a starting point? Around 31% more viable cells in a fresh smack pack/vial. (wyeast state 100 billion cells, whitelabs between 70 -140 billion cells.)
> 
> Now the figures above are assuming you pitch the dry yeast after rehydrating. If not, that figure could be closer to 65% less yeast if you decide to sprinkle the dry yeast directly onto the wort.
> 
> 
> Now if we think about correct cell pitching rates, what cell count do you need for a 1.050OG 20L wort?
> 
> 750000*20000*12.5 = 187.5 billion cells.
> 
> At worst, one non-rehydrated dry yeast pack will get you to 18%~ of that recommended cell count.
> one smack pack/vial assuming 100% viability of a liquid culture at 100 billion cells = 53% if your cell count.
> 
> I know what option i would choose.
> 
> Smack pack + 1L starter. For those fond of dry yeast, atleast two *rehydrated *US05 packets.



Thanks for the info Fourstar - good summation of yeast statistics

I know this is anecdotal, and not the result of a rigorous statistical survey, but my 1st place RIS this year and my 2007 AABC BoS Cali Common were both made with two packs of dry US-05 pitched directly into the fermenter cos I like to keep it simple and dry yeasts are incredibly robust - the way I do it with most beers I make (APAs, A.Brown Ales, IPAs etc). But they are always fresh packs

I understand that many of Richard's beers at the Wig & Pen are also made with unhydrated dry yeast (US-05, S-04 & S-23) - hydrating dry yeast increasing the risk of infection by adding an extra step to a process that doesn't need it.

While Chris & Jamil's book is an excellent resource, it is only one perspective and Chris White _is_ in the business of selling liquid yeast so there is the possibility of just a hint of bias?

cheers!

Dan


----------



## Bribie G

Getting way OT but isn't the attraction of liquid yeasts more in the huge variety available? I actually find that rehydrated dry yeasts pitching both sides of a repack from said sponsor take off way quicker than Wyeasts (don't know about the others, not available to me here).
So if I had, for example, a dried version of Ringwood or a dried version of Irish Ale or even - happy days - a dried version of 1469 I'd be more than happy. As it is we are limited to six core dried yeasts with a few spec ones such as T-58 and Weizen etc. so we need to go out into the liquids to meet our needs for Bopils, Irish, etc etc.


----------



## djneli

I'm absolutely stoked about my 1st in the 6. Pale Ale - especially since it was a beer that I slapped together just so I could reuse the yeast cake from the Sunshine Coast Brewery trip! Can't wait to see the comments on it so I can tweak my recipe and see if I can't take it to the next level.

Sorry I didn't believe you when you called on Saturday night Ben. Some of my mates would be the type that would convince me I had won and then tear me down to reality in hysterical fits of laughter =)


----------



## felten

> Now using that information, see the following. The dry yeast packets state on their spec sheet each packet contains 11.5g of yeast and the viability at packaging is 6 * 10 ^ 9 (6 billion cells per g) which equates to 69 billion cells in a packet.



There's a good quote on dried yeast on Jamil's website, I'm don't know whats in the yeast book as I haven't ordered it yet but on this page it says; 

"(Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.)"

Now I'm not sure myself but that sounds like it could be accurate, and why pitching directly on top of the wort does work in a multitude of cases, because of the sheer number of cells, but could also be a cause of stalling with a old/lower viability yeast packet.


----------



## Bribie G

Congrats Neil and Starkesbier as well in the pale ales, hope you've got those special release yeasts slanted away :icon_cheers:


----------



## djneli

BribieG said:


> Congrats Neil and Starkesbier as well in the pale ales, hope you've got those special release yeasts slanted away :icon_cheers:



I got the last one available earlier in the year but I'm hoping I can get some more in the seasonal release next year cause it's a bloody good yeast that worked well and was pretty forgiving.


----------



## DanRayner

BTW: Congrats to all the winners and entrants overall for an awesome AABC!

Canberra Brewers were stoked to see so many of our newer brewers get a place! It is great to see this past-time get new and talented people!


----------



## np1962

OK, so what happened to SA, bottom of the pile.
Looks like only about 2/3 of our qualified brewers entered beers.
Well, look out next year we have some work to do to take the trophies on our own dung heap! :beerbang: 

Well done to all that did well and to all that qualified to enter.

Cheers
Nige


----------



## Bribie G

NigeP62 said:


> OK, so what happened to SA, bottom of the pile.
> Looks like only about 2/3 of our qualified brewers entered beers.
> Well, look out next year we have some work to do to take the trophies on our own dung heap! :beerbang:
> 
> Well done to all that did well and to all that qualified to enter.
> 
> Cheers
> Nige



The Eastern States have sent you a good fresh coming down the Murray so you'll be laughing next year


----------



## dr K

Again a well organised and well run comp, congrads to all the organisers, stewards and judges
Of course its easy to say.."Hey I came first at State but last at AABC", even leaving the subjective nature of judging aside, remember you were up against pre-qualified beers, they were judged as worthy, be happy.
K


----------



## BrenosBrews

dr K said:


> Again a well organised and well run comp, congrads to all the organisers, stewards and judges
> Of course its easy to say.."Hey I came first at State but last at AABC", even leaving the subjective nature of judging aside, remember you were up against pre-qualified beers, they were judged as worthy, be happy.
> K




Interesting side note to this; both Craig Webber & Brendan O'Sullivan, champion brewer & runner up respectivly, also got last place in other categories. Both amazing brewers but goes to show the quality your up against. I judged Farmhouse & Wild and Brendan's Berliner Weiss was truly fantastic. I think it was 2nd for peoples choice at club night too.


----------



## Brewtus

As not many on the forum know my name and I don't post so much these days, I will put my hand up as winner of Cat 4 Amber and Dark lager. 

I did not go to the comp but I will take Dr Ks word for it and congratulate all the judges, stewards and organizers for a well run event. After Stagger's effort last year running the comp in Canberra, it is good to see him as Brewer of the Year 2010. 

Well done to all the other winners, place getters and everyone who entered should be proud. 

For the record, I rehydrated my yeast for this one.


----------



## brendo

Brewtus said:


> As not many on the forum know my name and I don't post so much these days, I will put my hand up as winner of Cat 4 Amber and Dark lager.
> 
> I did not go to the comp but I will take Dr Ks word for it and congratulate all the judges, stewards and organizers for a well run event. After Stagger's effort last year running the comp in Canberra, it is good to see him as Brewer of the Year 2010.
> 
> Well done to all the other winners, place getters and everyone who entered should be proud.
> 
> For the record, I rehydrated my yeast for this one.



Well done mate - I judged that Cat... top work!!


----------



## DanRayner

NigeP62 said:


> OK, so what happened to SA, bottom of the pile.
> Looks like only about 2/3 of our qualified brewers entered beers.
> Well, look out next year we have some work to do to take the trophies on our own dung heap! :beerbang:
> 
> Well done to all that did well and to all that qualified to enter.
> 
> Cheers
> Nige



Ok, I can't help it, I was not going to post this but when I saw Nige's post I thought this might encourage SA (plus it's quite hilarious to boot!). This was posted on CBC's forum from one of our more nerdy members:

_For the record, Champion State scores normalised by state population (points per million inhabitants):

winner: act 103.4
2nd: sa 6.09
3rd: wa 5.25
4th: vic 3.62
5th: qld 3.33
6th: nsw 1.94_

So don't feel bad Nige, SA actually came 2nd (per capita)!!

Gold


----------



## jayse

Interesting, does lessen the blow for us but goes to make act look even better again.


----------



## DanRayner

jayse said:


> Interesting, does lessen the blow for us but goes to make act look even better again.



Why I wasn't going to post it - it is a bit silly


----------



## Brewtus

brendo said:


> Well done mate - I judged that Cat... top work!!


Thank you.


----------



## dr K

DanRayner said:


> Why I wasn't going to post it - it is a bit silly



Silly..its ridiculous, a quick calculation to adjust the skew shows that taking the half life of Ibanarium 136 into account along with a fair guess at the male/female ratio in Australia at the last census and published information regarding preferred or trusted media then ACT is pretty much line ball with Qld.

K


----------



## Brewtus

If only we could get brewing into the Commonwealth Games. We could have far more silly stats on how damn clever we all are.


----------



## brendanos

BrenosBrews said:


> Interesting side note to this; both Craig Webber & Brendan O'Sullivan, champion brewer & runner up respectivly, also got last place in other categories. Both amazing brewers but goes to show the quality your up against. I judged Farmhouse & Wild and Brendan's Berliner Weiss was truly fantastic. I think it was 2nd for peoples choice at club night too.



They were different batches - 3 & 6 I think? It's equally as humbling to come last as it is to come first. Both are important messages! I hope the judges were just calling me out on entering an imperial oak aged coffee chocolate porter as a RIS & didn't just find it horrible  I tried a brilliant french oaked strong lager and & choc expresso oatmeal stout.

Will PM about the Brett APA!


----------



## Stagger

brendanos said:


> They were different batches - 3 & 6 I think? It's equally as humbling to come last as it is to come first. Both are important messages! I hope the judges were just calling me out on entering an imperial oak aged coffee chocolate porter as a RIS & didn't just find it horrible  I tried a brilliant french oaked strong lager and & choc expresso oatmeal stout.
> 
> Will PM about the Brett APA!



My two last place beer were entered in the wrong style, funny how a Double shot espresso stout tastes nothing like a fruit beer. As Forest said in the movie SHIT HAPPENS


----------



## DanRayner

Stagger said:


> My two last place beer were entered in the wrong style, funny how a Double shot espresso stout tastes nothing like a fruit beer. As Forest said in the movie SHIT HAPPENS



I love the dichotomy of low/high-scoring beers in comps. My ESB (was entered incorrectly and it) scored abysmally - still, I honestly thought it was a pretty average beer in the first place. And in the ACTABC I got the highest-scoring beer for my [email protected] and the lowest in the comp with an-over-the-top-diacetyl irish red ale scoring 58pts!

Love it


----------



## brendanos

Stagger said:


> My two last place beer were entered in the wrong style, funny how a Double shot espresso stout tastes nothing like a fruit beer. As Forest said in the movie SHIT HAPPENS



That was a particularly challenging (confusing?) first beer of the flight! Enjoyable nonetheless.


----------



## bradsbrew

I'm waiting for my scoresheets to come back to find out why a specialty beer that picked up a silver and a score of 43 from a professional brewer at state level scores a *total* of 65 at nationals? :huh: 

Cheers


----------



## Stuster

brendanos said:


> I hope the judges were just calling me out on entering an imperial oak aged coffee chocolate porter as a RIS & didn't just find it horrible



I'm pretty sure I know which beer was yours, and it was just a style issue. Really nice beer. :chug: 

Let me know if you, or anybody else in the strong stouts, wants an explanation of my notes after you get your sheets back. The writing might be clear but I'm not sure my brain was by the end of that flight. :icon_drunk:


----------



## manticle

Just a curiosity but if something is totally out of style but not horrible or infected, do the judges in most comps generally question if there's been a style/pouring/labelling mix-up or just accept as is?

I can understand trying to work it out could be problematic but I've heard about it happening a few times. Only entered one comp myself but interested in trying more and possibly helping steward a couple.


----------



## brendo

bradsbrew said:


> I'm waiting for my scoresheets to come back to find out why a specialty beer that picked up a silver and a score of 43 from a professional brewer at state level scores a *total* of 65 at nationals? :huh:
> 
> Cheers



Shit happens... however you should look forward to your sheets - Randy Mosher judged that Cat and I am sure there will be some great insights...


----------



## Stuster

manticle said:


> Just a curiosity but if something is totally out of style but not horrible or infected, do the judges in most comps generally question if there's been a style/pouring/labelling mix-up or just accept as is?
> 
> I can understand trying to work it out could be problematic but I've heard about it happening a few times. Only entered one comp myself but interested in trying more and possibly helping steward a couple.



If seems like a completely different style (say if you get a blonde ale in a stout category) then the judges would ask the stewards to check with the organiser/chief steward to make sure there hasn't been a mix-up with the bottles or anything like that. This happened in the recent NSW comp and I checked the bottle, the numbers in my spreadsheet and the number on the bottle. All checked out and the bottle had been labelled as that style by the entrant, so in that case the judges just carried on with feedback suggesting it was out of style.

With beers that are not so obvious, you may only really decide that the beer is not in style after going through the process. In that case, you _may _ want to check, but mostly it's just giving feedback to the entrant on how you think the beer is not like the guidelines for that style. This is one where a discussion between the judges at the end can be very useful and hopefully help to give good feedback to the entrant. Of course, it is pretty easy as an entrant to put the wrong label on the wrong beer. I've certainly come close to entering beers like that before and it was only because I spotted the cap labels at the last minute and swapped the labels that I didn't.


----------



## HoppingMad

manticle said:


> Just a curiosity but if something is totally out of style but not horrible or infected, do the judges in most comps generally question if there's been a style/pouring/labelling mix-up or just accept as is?
> 
> I can understand trying to work it out could be problematic but I've heard about it happening a few times. Only entered one comp myself but interested in trying more and possibly helping steward a couple.



A related question was asked of Gordon Strong at the conference last weekend, (Gordon is the president of BJCP from the US). The question put to Gordon was along the lines of "If you had a beer in a category you're judging that does not fit the style properly (being out on the fringes), but is a well brewed beer without flaws, how do you mark it and does it fail outright for not being in style?"

Gordon replied that as a general rule a beer not brewed to style would never receive 40 points or higher from a judge, nor would it fail. If the beer was good and without flaws then often beers not fitting styles can still receive around 30 points, as the judging process is there to encourage good beer all the same. 

Doesn't answer the question regarding remedying mix-ups but gives you an insight into how the marking is done if the beer stays in the wrong category.

Hopper.


----------



## Brewtus

brendo said:


> Well done mate - I judged that Cat... top work!!


I looked at the results and assume it was you that won Cat 5. Well done!


----------



## manticle

Cheers Stuster and Hopper


----------



## dr K

How the judges judge and how your beer ranks is just how it is.
Great thing about AABC is that your beers have to be judged as good to get through, that is they have already passed.
How does a beer get 120 in the state and 65 in the Nats given a max 7 point discrepancy between judges.
Could be lots of things, most likely it is the judges, one lot knew what they were doing the other did not.
As I often say, if you did well (twice by the way) enjoy the moment !
I have judged in the odd comp and can say from experience that not all judges are equal and over a wide range of styles none are. 

K


----------



## Zorro

AndrewQLD said:


> Congratulations Lyall,Tony,Graeme, Neil and David. Fantastic results and a great effort by all the Qlders. Lyall you must be over the moon, well done.
> Thanks to the organizers, Judges and Stewards.
> Congrats to all other place getters too.
> 
> Andrew



Thanks Andrew, and Michael been after it after 3rd the last 2 years, couldn't believe it on the night will be a hard act to follow. Graeme Stark and I were down there had a really great weekend drank heaps of beer and congratulations to you also on winning the Bitter,

Cheers Lyall


----------



## jyo

Has anyone received their comments yet?
Cheers, John.


----------



## Bribie G

Black Cat said:


> Thanks Andrew, and Michael been after it after 3rd the last 2 years, couldn't believe it on the night will be a hard act to follow. Graeme Stark and I were down there had a really great weekend drank heaps of beer and congratulations to you also on winning the Bitter,
> 
> Cheers Lyall



Lyall, 1'st post but member for several years. And what a first post ..

Lyall is hereby awarded the gold medal for most successful ever lurker in the history of AHB :lol:


----------



## BrenosBrews

jyo said:


> Has anyone received their comments yet?
> Cheers, John.



Got mine yesterday. Interesting stuff.


----------



## felten

same here


----------



## brettprevans

Got mine yesterday. Now I now how I scored so badly. It appears I submitted the wrong beer and with a small infection. Damn! Buggered that up right royally.


----------



## mxd

got mine last night, it appeared to have oxidization, so I opened my last grolsch bottle of it at home and yep the seals don't look that good.


----------



## Fourstar

mxd said:


> got mine last night, it appeared to have oxidization, so I opened my last grolsch bottle of it at home and yep the seals don't look that good.



BTW, ive got your trophy. I'll give it to you at the next club meeting. It looks good on my bar with the rest of my places :icon_cheers:


----------



## brendo

Fourstar said:


> BTW, ive got your trophy. I'll give it to you at the next club meeting. It looks good on my bar with the rest of my places :icon_cheers:



That would be Matt Hervern... or Don Mateo to AHB'ers....


----------



## haysie

jyo said:


> Has anyone received their comments yet?
> Cheers, John.




Received y`day, big spreads, one beer being the whole 7,Interesting reading nonetheless.

edit, biggups to everyone involved :super:


----------



## jyo

haysie said:


> Received y`day, big spreads, one beer being the whole 7,Interesting reading nonetheless.
> 
> edit, biggups to everyone involved :super:



Got mine today. Great feedback. :icon_cheers:


----------



## djneli

Got mine and it had some really good, reasonably consistant feedback which I think should help me brew an even better beer.

Cheers all for the hard work!


----------



## mxd

thats a matt from mulgrave so I cover it as well 



brendo said:


> That would be Matt Hervern... or Don Mateo to AHB'ers....


----------



## pk.sax

the nuumber of Matts that are buying in the latest grain bulk buy is insane, Its like every Matt worth a pint is a homebrewer!


----------



## haysie

mxd said:


> thats a matt from mulgrave so I cover it as well



My guess is> if its a weizen its Matt from Mongrelbark way, If its an APA its Matt from salubrious Mulgrave :icon_cheers:


----------



## mxd

it's Matt H, he lives around the corner





haysie said:


> My guess is> if its a weizen its Matt from Mongrelbark way, If its an APA its Matt from salubrious Mulgrave :icon_cheers:


----------



## browndog

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but on receiving my score sheets it was interesting to not that the score for aroma has been dropped by 2 and appearance increased by 2. AFAIK the BJCP are still operating on 12 and 3 points, can anyone shed some light on this?

cheers

Browndog


----------



## BrenosBrews

browndog said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned, but on receiving my score sheets it was interesting to not that the score for aroma has been dropped by 2 and appearance increased by 2. AFAIK the BJCP are still operating on 12 and 3 points, can anyone shed some light on this?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Gordon did mention something about our point allocation on the sheets being slightly different. Yes, the official BJCP is 12 for aroma and 3 for appearance. Which I personally think is better as appearance isn't as important as aroma for me.

But everything being in multiples of 5 makes it a bit simpler I guess.


----------



## haysie

BrenosBrews said:


> Gordon did mention something about our point allocation on the sheets being slightly different. Yes, the official BJCP is 12 for aroma and 3 for appearance. Which I personally think is better as appearance isn't as important as aroma for me.
> 
> But everything being in multiples of 5 makes it a bit simpler I guess.



The difference would be 4 points x 3 judges, maybe 12 points? I personally dont like the 3 only for appearance, most brewers put in big efforts too produce awesome looking beer. 

Also appearance is less subjective than aroma. More emphasis on non subjective content the better. Just my 2bobs


----------



## Bribie G

BrenosBrews said:


> Gordon did mention something about our point allocation on the sheets being slightly different. Yes, the official BJCP is 12 for aroma and 3 for appearance. Which I personally think is better as appearance isn't as important as aroma for me.
> 
> But everything being in multiples of 5 makes it a bit simpler I guess.



Makes it easier for their Commodore64 to process


 

Seriously, great feedback particularly with my dark mild, and for next year if I do it again I'll know to:

Mash a tad lower
Attenuate a bit further (not Ringwood)
If it gets a place in the State then definitely rebrew for the Nats, as it had gone off its 'fresh' peak and some vinous flavours starting to creep in. Nice beer but just gradually drifting off style. 

:icon_cheers:


----------



## argon

BribieG said:


> Makes it easier for their Commodore64 to process
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, great feedback particularly with my dark mild, and for next year if I do it again I'll know to:
> 
> Mash a tad lower
> Attenuate a bit further (not Ringwood)
> If it gets a place in the State then definitely rebrew for the Nats, as it had gone off its 'fresh' peak and some vinous flavours starting to creep in. Nice beer but just gradually drifting off style.
> 
> :icon_cheers:




You'll need to teach me some secrets for a mild Bribie... my last attempt was ok, but attenuated too far and i mashed too cool... hmmm perhaps somewhere in the middle and we could take home the prize


----------



## winkle

BribieG said:


> Makes it easier for their Commodore64 to process
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, great feedback particularly with my dark mild, and for next year if I do it again I'll know to:
> 
> Mash a tad lower
> Attenuate a bit further (not Ringwood)
> If it gets a place in the State then definitely rebrew for the Nats, as it had gone off its 'fresh' peak and some vinous flavours starting to creep in. Nice beer but just gradually drifting off style.
> 
> :icon_cheers:



Yep good feedback.
I'll remember to reserve an extra bottle from the state finals should there be a next time. Having to bottle from the keg of a not-to-style "ESB" because the reserved comp bottle proved to be a gusher was not my best moment. "Stale and oxidised" who would have thought it? Bloody last minute panics


----------



## Snow

I am not happy with my scoresheets for APA. Very limited feedback, and when there are comments, they are vague and/or unhelpful, and the handwriting was near illegible on two of them. If the beer had done really well, I wouldn't be so worried (hard to provide advice on a beer that would be difficult to improve on). However, my beer completely bombed, which shocked me, and I really wanted some decent feedback so I can avoid this in the future!

Cheers - Snow.


----------



## Bribie G

winkle said:


> Yep good feedback.
> I'll remember to reserve an extra bottle from the state finals should there be a next time. Having to bottle from the keg of a not-to-style "ESB" because the reserved comp bottle proved to be a gusher was not my best moment. "Stale and oxidised" who would have thought it? Bloody last minute panics



I've been keeping all my _bottle conditioned_ comp bottles in a wardrobe where they stay at a constant temp, however next year if Allah spares me and smiles on my beers I'll keep all BABBs and State winners in the fridge at 4 degrees in suspended anno from now on :icon_cheers:
On that point, I believe the overall winner keeps kegs for months and I'll see if he's willing to disclose whether they are kept in the garage or constantly refrigerated for that time.


----------



## AndrewQLD

BribieG said:


> I've been keeping all my comp bottles in a wardrobe where they stay at a constant temp, however next year if Allah spares me and smiles on my beers I'll keep all BABBs and State winners in the fridge at 4 degrees in suspended anno from now on :icon_cheers:



That's what I always do Bribie, my first in the British Bitter was in suspended animation since April.

Snow, I had the same problem as you, couldn't read 2 of my score sheets at all, it was just scribble.

And while I'm at it, I really do hope that the AABA seriously looks at giving the placings a certificate next year, this is the ultimate competition in Australia and it's nice to have something to frame and hang on the wall.

Andrew


----------



## Murcluf

AndrewQLD said:


> That's what I always do Bribie, my first in the British Bitter was in suspended animation since April.
> 
> Snow, I had the same problem as you, couldn't read 2 of my score sheets at all, it was just scribble.
> 
> And while I'm at it, I really do hope that the AABA seriously looks at giving the placings a certificate next year, this is the ultimate competition in Australia and it's nice to have something to frame and hang on the wall.
> 
> Andrew


Something AKA Throphy and/or Certificate with your name on it would be a helluva lot nicer then just a glass with the category and place on it. It was the first time I've seen what you get for national prises this year and I though they were as lame as.

It's a like the old tourist T-shirt saying :

My relatives went to Hong Kong and all I got was this bloody T-shirt.

I won the National Title and all I got was a lousy glass.

Considering at State level, well here in SA you get a trophy and a certificate with your name on it for getting a place and it costs half as much to enter too. Perhaps if the hosts of AABC in 2011 have the opportunity to organise the trophies as well maybe everyone will be in for a plesant surprise.

Just putting it out there!


----------



## Bribie G

B) B) B)


----------



## Fourstar

brendo said:


> That would be Matt Hervern... or Don Mateo to AHB'ers....




Whoops!


----------



## mxd

that's ok, you can still give it to me, I had his grain from the lask grain buy for 6 weeks, so I can use this as a rent contribution 



Fourstar said:


> Whoops!


----------



## browndog

Snow said:


> I am not happy with my scoresheets for APA. Very limited feedback, and when there are comments, they are vague and/or unhelpful, and the handwriting was near illegible on two of them. If the beer had done really well, I wouldn't be so worried (hard to provide advice on a beer that would be difficult to improve on). However, my beer completely bombed, which shocked me, and I really wanted some decent feedback so I can avoid this in the future!
> 
> Cheers - Snow.



My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.

-Browndog


----------



## brett mccluskey

browndog said:


> My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.
> 
> -Browndog


This is something that should be brought up with the organising committee.I remember at Vicbrew ,judges were advised to write more "descriptive" comments of the entry,not just 3 or 4 words .At AABC level i'd expect a lot better.It's bloody difficult judging at times,and my handwriting isn;t the greatest ,but every judge should make an effort to provide informed,constructive ,comment on the beer in question.People pay good money to enter comps ,and deserve to get constructive criticism(if any),on a score sheet that they can read .Very disappointing that this isn't the case at this level ,Something for the organisers to think about,i reckon


----------



## millsone

So if i'm selected, will it be shipped to the other side of the globe 

tom


----------



## felten

All my comments were great, I know what to improve next time around.


----------



## Carboy

millstone said:


> So if i'm selected, will it be shipped to the other side of the globe
> 
> tom




Hi Tom,

You joined on 13 June 2008 and its taken all this time to lodge your first post  welcome to the forum Buddy :icon_cheers: 

Cheers
C


----------



## haysie

browndog said:


> My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.
> 
> -Browndog


I here ya dog
The spread between my American brown was 34.5 and 41
The spread between my Continental Lager was 39 and 32

At national level to be that far apart makes one wonder? The 39 bjcp made good comments re. balance. The 32 bjcp judgemade comments acetaldehyde, diacteyl, astingency,grainy/oxidised B) if it was that bad it should have scored less than 32. Gawd, where do I start to fix ALL those problems.



toper1 said:


> This is something that should be brought up with the organising committee.I remember at Vicbrew ,judges were advised to write more "descriptive" comments of the entry,not just 3 or 4 words .At AABC level i'd expect a lot better.It's bloody difficult judging at times,and my handwriting isn;t the greatest ,but every judge should make an effort to provide informed,constructive ,comment on the beer in question.People pay good money to enter comps ,and deserve to get constructive criticism(if any),on a score sheet that they can read .Very disappointing that this isn't the case at this level ,Something for the organisers to think about,i reckon



+1
2 judges versus 3 with such wide variances in score..... then doing countbacks on overall impression seems a wee bit lop-sided. No doubt tonnes of room for improvement. The 7 point reference is too widely used and egos combined with no or little discussion on the beer being judged can play a huge role. Anything outside of 4 point difference surely requires discussion and more tasting/time. Seen it first hand everybody being pushed pushed but as long as we are within 7 that will do.


----------



## browndog

haysie said:


> I here ya dog
> The spread between my American brown was 34.5 and 41
> The spread between my Continental Lager was 39 and 32
> 
> At national level to be that far apart makes one wonder? The 39 bjcp made good comments re. balance. The 32 bjcp judgemade comments acetaldehyde, diacteyl, astingency,grainy/oxidised B) if it was that bad it should have scored less than 32. Gawd, where do I start to fix ALL those problems.
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 2 judges versus 3 with such wide variances in score..... then doing countbacks on overall impression seems a wee bit lop-sided. No doubt tonnes of room for improvement. The 7 point reference is too widely used and egos combined with no or little discussion on the beer being judged can play a huge role. Anything outside of 4 point difference surely requires discussion and more tasting/time. Seen it first hand everybody being pushed pushed but as long as we are within 7 that will do.




My issue was not with the scores, just the fact that there was barely any writing on the score sheets, just circling and ticking, no comments in the overall impression, one judge gets brett, the other diacetyl. Very dissapointing.


----------



## geoffd

All I can say is I've learned not to listen too hard to the judges comments, they are very useful for picking up technical faults, but dont always get it right. My dry stout in AABC had 2 judges tell me to ease up on the dark crystal, even though there was no crystal in it at all 

Comps are a bit of fun, & a great oportunity to get involved in an event that gives you a chance to mingle with other great brewers & learn from each other & also a great chance to try different beer styles & learn what you'ld like to (or not) make. Tasting Kolsch will nearly always give you an oportunity to experience diacetyl 

Whilst judges should give as much feedback as possible, it has to be acknowlegded that they have a tough job of getting though each beer in 10 mins & I noticed in particular 1 panel suffered from palate fatigue & scored a porter really well that to my mind was a full on stout. Also most comps you will find generally only have 1 BJCP judge, if you're lucky maybe 2 out of the 3. More people need to sit the exam & participate to help push the bar higher.

The appearance scoring needs attention. there is a lot of inconsistency with judges.

A perfectly haze free black beer should not be described as opaque, it is either clear or bright.
I also understand that a clear & bright beer should be both full scoring as it gives advantage to brewers with filtration systems & creates an uneven playing field.

Comparing spreads between judges is largely irrelevant everyones palate is different, they review their point scoring and on occasion will have to amend to get within 7 points after rationalising the differences of perception. What is important is that a judge who scored you 3/5 & you felt it should have been 4/5 will also most likely have judged the rest of the entries in a similar manner.

A clear beer with the right head & anywhere within style colour range in my mind should score 4.5 to 5 out of 5, it seems to me judges sometimes psychologically struggle with giving maximum points. Having stewarded at a dozen or more comps now I would say that at least two thirds of the beers should be scoring close to full marks.


PS: I intend to do the BJCP course next year.
Anyone interested in advancing their beer knowlegde should get in touch with George & give expression of interest: [email protected]

He will close the gate soon & then get a consensus on what is the most suitable night for all the interested people, once a day of the week is settled then folks can confirm or pull out.

1 midweek night per fortnight for 10 sessions from early Feb (central location Melbourne)
($15 per session for beer costs)
exam $50 incidentals $50


----------



## Murcluf

browndog said:


> My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.
> 
> -Browndog


What I posted on another forum after reading my judging sheets, I too feel your pain!!!


> Got mine tonight, already knew a couple of my beer got a bagging points wise so was eager to see why. Now I have compared the judging sheets from SABSOSA and AABC and I'm seriously spewing
> 
> Disclaimer: The Following Rant is not directed at any individual or organisation as I don't believe anyone is to blame or say anyone is better at judging then another. I'm just stunned by the huge variation in score and feedback given by the judges so much so I'm embarrassed by what was written by the some of the AABC judges.
> 
> <WTF_RANT>
> 1. ESB = Bitter Ale SABSOSA 1st place
> SABSOSA Score 37.5 average
> BJCP Feedback: Good beer brewed right in style guidelines, with skill does sit a bit flat on the palate lacks crisp refreshing characters but well done overall
> AABC Score 24 average
> BJCP Feedback:Hard to drink Hot Solventy, burning flavour. Weak Malt Lingering sharp bitterness Alcohol Fussel Heat/burn
> 
> 2.APA SABSOSA 2nd place
> SABSOSA Score 40 average
> BJCP Feedback:Very nice beer bitter is slightly on the higher end Malt and Hops evident
> AABC Score 25 average
> BJCP Feedback: The harsh bitterness made this beer hard to drink needs some malt character to support this.
> 
> I just don't understand why my entries in SABSOSA and AABC were from the same batch bottled the same time kept constantly refrigerated until required for submission. Can end up poles apart when judged. I've also tried samples I've been able to drink post SABSOSA and had no issue. I just don't understand what goes wrong with my beers between submitting my entries and and being judged at AABC </WTF_RANT>
> 
> Just makes you wonder if its worth the hassle to make it that far only to be told your beer is crap


----------



## Pennywise

millstone said:


> So if i'm selected, will it be shipped to the other side of the globe
> 
> tom




No


----------



## brendo

Murcluf said:


> What I posted on another forum after reading my judging sheets, I too feel your pain!!!



I didn't judge those specific categories, so can't really comment on your actual beers.

It is disappointing when the beers are judged poles apart like that. All I can say on the matter is:



 different comp, different judges, different level of subjectivity and personal bias (just the way the coookie crumbles)


 your beer travelled from SA - not really sure on the logistics of how this was achieved and under what conditions, but in my opinion beer is a fragile beast and doesn't travel that well, so some degredation is common. 

Don't know what to tell you otherwise.

Agree with a lot of the other comments - there are definitely some issues with the process, but that said no process is perfect. I also agree fully with Father Jack - one way to lift the bar is to get involved, do the study, sit the exam and judge beers the way you would like to see yours judged.


----------



## Fourstar

Father Jack said:


> The appearance scoring needs attention. there is a lot of inconsistency with judges.
> 
> A perfectly haze free black beer should not be described as opaque, it is either clear or bright.
> I also understand that a clear & bright beer should be both full scoring as it gives advantage to brewers with filtration systems & creates an uneven playing field.



Err, thats not completely correct mate.

opaque
   /oʊˈpeɪk/ Spelled [oh-peyk] IPA adjective, noun, verb, opaqued, opaquing.
–adjective
1.
*not transparent or translucent; impenetrable to light; not allowing light to pass through.*

If i get a jet black beer that is not 'cloudy with yeast, protein or starch' but is nothing but black, it is opaque. if it is black but has easily percievable highlights and i can see my fingers clearly through ssaid highlights, its bright. if its opaque and cloudy with haze/matter, its cloudy.

nonetheless, these beers (porter and stout categories) are acceptable to be opaque or bright/clear anyway according to the guidelines. Either way, if one judge percieves* opaque and the other bright, that part of the appearance scoring would both achieve points.

* judging is all about _your_ perception of the beer palced infront of you, not of the judges sitting beside you. Of course, you will learn all about this in the BJCP course.


----------



## mckenry

Fourstar said:


> Err, thats not completely correct mate.
> 
> opaque
> /oʊˈpeɪk/ Spelled [oh-peyk] IPA adjective, noun, verb, opaqued, opaquing.
> adjective
> 1.
> *not transparent or translucent; impenetrable to light; not allowing light to pass through.*
> 
> If i get a jet black beer that is not 'cloudy with yeast, protein or starch' but is nothing but black, it is opaque. if it is black but has easily percievable highlights and i can see my fingers clearly through ssaid highlights, its bright. if its opaque and cloudy with haze/matter, its cloudy.
> 
> nonetheless, these beers (porter and stout categories) are acceptable to be opaque or bright/clear anyway according to the guidelines. Either way, if one judge percieves* opaque and the other bright, that part of the appearance scoring would both achieve points.
> 
> * judging is all about _your_ perception of the beer palced infront of you, not of the judges sitting beside you. Of course, you will learn all about this in the BJCP course.



so many people think opaque is what translucent is. WHY?


----------



## geoffd

McHenry I dont believe opaque & translucent are remotely the same.

Fourstar, perhaps we have different understandings & perhaps I will learn to view it differently from the BJCP course.

I consider any stout no matter how dark or impenetrable to light if it is a clean haze free colour, then it could be described as clear (or bright if that is actually discernable).
Opaque (to my mind) would be if it has severe hop haze, protein haze or stirred up yeast sludge to the point that it cannot be seen through. in the case of a very dark stout it would appear murky.

I understand your arguement that it can be marked as opaque & given full points.
I've seen stouts too often score 3/5 for appearance, perhaps only for not having a big enough head (hard in a lowly carbonated beer) are they giving 0/2 for head just because it isnt big enough regardless of texture or lace? Unfortunately the scoresheets lack specifity (to use a kevin rudd term) in that each dimention of the appearance should have a range of 0-2pts in 1/2 point incremens for circling, that way we would better understand what is being marked down.

i.e.
Colour...adjetives for circling .....scores for circling 0, 0.5, 1
Clarity...adjetives for circling .....scores for circling 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2
Head.....adjetives for circling .....scores for circling 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 & Total over 5

Particular perceptions of a stylistically accurate colour can still be diffrensiated in overall impression section... I.e if a brown ale had particularly attractive ruby highlights.

Anyway it's always good to debate these things, no offence taken if you disagree, my god dont get me started on the BJCP style guidelines for stout, i'll be cussing' & a swearin' & a wavin' me fist


----------



## Stuster

I'm with Fourstar on the opaque issue (and that's how my comments in the strong stouts should be taken if any are interested). A quick search of the BJCP site came up with this info from a live calibration scoring of some beers by some of the top BJCP judges which seems to back up this interpretation of the use of the word. Link.

It's a shame people are not happy with the feedback. I think the judging was a bit rushed and it's certainly something the organisers of the next nationals should think about. In terms of the beers getting different scores, I think there a number of possibles. 1 is that different judges just have different criteria, despite training and so on. 2 is the order of the judging can affect the scoring - if you are after a good/bad example this can change the perception, later in the flight more subtle examples can get judged more harshly than they should be. 3 is that beers can be affected by travel and/or there can be individual variation between bottles despite the best sanitation procedures. In case swaps of the past, I've had feedback from others that the beer was off in some way, while others were happy with it. Nothing I can pinpoint to explain it.

I agree with you on the stout guidelines, BJCP or AABC. The Foreign export category is really two styles in one. Could be balanced to dry or sweet,... :lol:


----------



## AndrewQLD

Something like this Father Jack?





I think one of the problems is the badly laid out and designed judging sheet that is being used in our comps.
That's page 1 of 2, certainly is a lot more descriptive and would help the judges whose hand writing is appalling.

Andrew


----------



## geoffd

Stuster said:


> I'm with Fourstar on the opaque issue (and that's how my comments in the strong stouts should be taken if any are interested). A quick search of the BJCP site came up with this info from a live calibration scoring of some beers by some of the top BJCP judges which seems to back up this interpretation of the use of the word. Link.



Lol... Stuster; 3 wrongs dont make a right


----------



## Pennywise

AndrewQLD said:


> Something like this Father Jack?
> 
> View attachment 42195
> 
> 
> I think one of the problems is the badly laid out and designed judging sheet that is being used in our comps.
> That's page 1 of 2, certainly is a lot more descriptive and would help the judges whose hand writing is appalling.
> 
> Andrew




^ I really like this


----------



## bigfridge

AndrewQLD said:


> Something like this Father Jack?
> 
> View attachment 42195
> 
> 
> I think one of the problems is the badly laid out and designed judging sheet that is being used in our comps.
> That's page 1 of 2, certainly is a lot more descriptive and would help the judges whose hand writing is appalling.
> 
> Andrew




What a hoot ...... you realise that this was designed by Mr 'Chineese' Hop himself ! I haven't seen it used in years and never outside of Queensland - with good reason.

Let NOT those without judge training throw the first stone ...

Dave


----------



## AndrewQLD

bigfridge said:


> What a hoot ...... you realise that this was designed by Mr 'Chineese' Hop himself ! I haven't seen it used in years and never outside of Queensland - with good reason.
> 
> Let NOT those without judge training throw the first stone ...
> 
> Dave



Thought someone would get a laugh, although it has it's merits some of the descriptors could use a work up.
I am pretty sure I downloaded this file from some obscure American site about 10 years ago. However I could be wrong.

Andrew

Edit: On second thoughts you could be right Dave, I see I downloaded this in 2007.


----------



## sama

Cant seem to find anywhere the cut off date for entrys for AABC 2011,does anyone have this info.Thankyou.


----------



## np1962

sama said:


> Cant seem to find anywhere the cut off date for entrys for AABC 2011,does anyone have this info.Thankyou.


There is some info at SABSOSA
Mainly directed at SA brewers, might pay to contact them or your State comp organisers to see if any arrangements have been made to transport entries from your state.
Cheers
Nige


----------



## MattC

Entry forms and drop off points/ postage addresses dont appear to be finalised yet, when they are, you should find them HERE.

Cheers


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB

Follow Nige's link to SABSOSA and you will
see the cut-off date for entries is the 8th of October.

Cheers
Mark


----------



## sama

link to order form,closing date etc

AABC ENTRY FORM<DATES etc


----------



## Bribie G

I thought the Nats were early November - according to the QABC site the Nats are " normally early November". 

Many brewers in the State comps would have been under the impression that, depending on their results at State level, they could re-brew some styles such as Mild or Dry Stout that benefit from being entered fresh and young, but as the State results won't be available till only a couple of weeks before the Nats deadline this won't be possible. 

Could we please have some definite dates announced a year ahead? Many brewers put in a lot of time and effort planning and brewing for the comp "circuit" - club, State then Nats and, as the standard of home brewing progresses from year to year, it would be nice if the competition schedules would enable brewers to be able to plan a little more accurately.

Edit:
As it is, I have indeed brewed a number of "shadow brews" in case I am fortunate enough to win a place in the State comp but it would be good if we didn't have to second-guess the system every year.


----------



## np1962

Bribie,
The dates have been on the AABC website since March at least, possibly earlier.
I do agree that it would be ideal if there was a six week gap between State comp results and Nationals, I see NSW will have longer than this, but the date of AABC has been known for quite some time.
Nige


----------



## Bribie G

Point taken. I shouldn't have relied on the QABC site I suppose ( I do realise that there just isn't the "manpower" available to keep it constantly up to date)
Have to keep my ear to the ground more carefully next year.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Wolfy

Bribie G said:


> Point taken. I shouldn't have relied on the QABC site I suppose ( I do realise that there just isn't the "manpower" available to keep it constantly up to date)
> Have to keep my ear to the ground more carefully next year.


Or even better, keep your eye on the official AABC website: http://www.aabc.org.au/


----------



## RdeVjun

I'm rooted if a similar sort of thing happens at QABC as just happened at BABBs Annual. :blink: I have a couple of pre- emptive rebrews on line just in case, but knowing my luck they won't be required...


----------



## Ross

Bribie G said:


> I thought the Nats were early November - according to the QABC site the Nats are " normally early November".
> 
> Many brewers in the State comps would have been under the impression that, depending on their results at State level, they could re-brew some styles such as Mild or Dry Stout that benefit from being entered fresh and young, but as the State results won't be available till only a couple of weeks before the Nats deadline this won't be possible.
> 
> Could we please have some definite dates announced a year ahead? Many brewers put in a lot of time and effort planning and brewing for the comp "circuit" - club, State then Nats and, as the standard of home brewing progresses from year to year, it would be nice if the competition schedules would enable brewers to be able to plan a little more accurately.
> 
> Edit:
> As it is, I have indeed brewed a number of "shadow brews" in case I am fortunate enough to win a place in the State comp but it would be good if we didn't have to second-guess the system every year.




Where on the QABC site are you quoting from Bribie, there's no mention of " normally early November" that I can see, but maybe I've missed it? It states on the front page that it's normally around November & gives the link to the AABC site. I would assume that prospective qualifiers would check the dates if interested?

Ross


----------



## vortex

Whomever looks after the AABC site may have an issue to investigate, according to Google:




All others should be careful viewing the site.


----------



## manticle

Odd that no-one seems to have posted the results of this year's comp yet.

I know Champion Brewer, Champion State and Beer of Show have been mentioned but full results are found here: http://www.aabc.org.au/stateresults/AABC2012FullResults.pdf and are attached

(yes I know competitors probably all got emailed like I did but for those interested or those who missed it): 

View attachment AABC2012_FullResults_Ver2.pdf


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

Was wondering whether the judging sheets had been received by any brewers yet (post) or whether they are still to be posted out? Like every year I am interested in mine.

BYB


----------



## vortex

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Was wondering whether the judging sheets had been received by any brewers yet (post) or whether they are still to be posted out? Like every year I am interested in mine.
> 
> BYB


Nothing here yet.


----------



## waggastew

I got a (very prompt) reply last night to an inquiry I placed with the organisers. They are finalising the score sheets/unclaimed trophies and will begin posting them next week. They have been slightly delayed due to a backlog from running the VICbrew comp as well.


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

I got my scoresheets yesterday.
They were excellent, damn good feedback.

I am praying to the Aust Post Gods that the trophies/mugs arrive in one piece soon!!

Cheers


----------



## vortex

Same, fantastic feedback, super impressed! Great work, judges! Already planning to re-brew with the feedback and see what the result is like, probably enter that again


----------



## Florian

Received my sheets today as well.

Have to say, _much_ better feedback than last year, very constructive and supportive. Gave me some good ideas for when I'm re-brewing.

Well done guys!


----------



## DUANNE

thanks to all the organisers and judges for a job well done. got my sheets back and what dou you know i put the wrong labels on the wrong bottles. i still got 40 points on my pilsener in the english bitter categorie though wich i thought was amazing but the enlish bitter scored a 16 and 22 as a pils. next time i will be paying a lot more attention when putting the labels on my bottles thats for sure!


----------



## winkle

Got mine today. When I sent the beer off I wasn't sure if it was from the same batch as the QABC one or the one before (since I was sure we'd drunk them all) -and I was right, clear judging notes echoing my own thought of the previous batch. Please keep up the high standard even for dodgy beers, judges - helps a lot downstream :icon_cheers:


----------



## RdeVjun

Got mine, some judges excelled with quite detailed feedback, but at least one left out remarks for entire sections but for the score (nb. yes, multiple sections) while the brevity of the remarks is astounding for what ended up being the category winning beer. So I'm disappointed- for the peak Australian amateur competition this really isn't good enough. Now, I most certainly do appreciate the efforts that all concerned, particularly those volunteering and those judges that took the time to write down appropriate descriptors, but the event was let down a little by some judges- I'm sorry but score sheets probably should have at least one word recorded in every section, regardless of the score!


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

Glassware rocked up today. SWMBO just sent me a photo of them all.

The Champ beer of Show glass looks bloody huge!

Great stuff guys, well organised and my prayers to the Aust Post gods payed off.  

Cheers and beers.


----------



## drmush

I received my scoresheets last week too...I was a bit disappointed since my wheat beer had come 1st in the NSW Comp but was placed last at the AABC...However it was understandable as I had brewed the batch at the end of June for the NSW Comp in August but as I suspected it didn't last until October as a sip of a remaining bottle last week revealed exactly what the judges said that the beer had lost freshness and flavour...Unfortunately as I was overseas until the end of September there was no time to brew a fresh batch in time...Ah well at least the beer got to the AABC...Thanks to the judges for their constructive comments...

Cheers
Geoff


----------



## Florian

drmush said:


> I received my scoresheets last week too...I was a bit disappointed since my wheat beer had come 1st in the NSW Comp but was placed last at the AABC...However it was understandable as I had brewed the batch at the end of June for the NSW Comp in August but as I suspected it didn't last until October as a sip of a remaining bottle last week revealed exactly what the judges said that the beer had lost freshness and flavour...Unfortunately as I was overseas until the end of September there was no time to brew a fresh batch in time...Ah well at least the beer got to the AABC...Thanks to the judges for their constructive comments...
> 
> Cheers
> Geoff



You also have to take into consideration that, although your beer came 1st in NSW, all other beers it's competing against on national level also became either 1st, 2nd or 3rd at state level. 

So your beer now plays in a different league, so to say, with 'stronger opponents' (in theory) than on a single state level.


----------



## dr K

It is always important to remember that you really are competing against the best beers in Australia, they have already been through one filter.
Possibly that is why the tables were reduced to two judges each.

K


----------



## drmush

Florian said:


> You also have to take into consideration that, although your beer came 1st in NSW, all other beers it's competing against on national level also became either 1st, 2nd or 3rd at state level.
> 
> So your beer now plays in a different league, so to say, with 'stronger opponents' (in theory) than on a single state level.



Hi Florian...

Please don't think I'm whinging about this...but the wheat was second at ANAWBS too...If anything maybe the time between when the wheat was brewed in late June and judged in October was too long...Also remember that the beers which were second and third in NSW ended higher than mine.  Point is maybe the NSW Comp needs to be closer to the AABC..

Cheers
Geoff


----------



## waggastew

Time between comps definitely is a factor. In the case of my beer it worked in its favour. My AIPA had detectable levels of diacetyl at NSWAHC and got a third place. By the time it hit the Nats the diacetyl dropped to background/undetectable and the beer got a 1st place. I had no time/plans to rebrew as I didn't expect the beer to even get a place at NSW but it all worked out for the best. In fact the beer was originally placed 4th at NSW due to an admin error so it was a close call even getting the entry to Melbourne in time.

As you say something like a wheat beer really needs that freshness to shine.

Stew


----------



## tallie

drmush said:


> Please don't think I'm whinging about this...but the wheat was second at ANAWBS too...If anything maybe the time between when the wheat was brewed in late June and judged in October was too long...Also remember that the beers which were second and third in NSW ended higher than mine.



You also need to take into account that different judges perceive different things at different times, and you shouldn't assume that a single competition result is representative of the beer. The more results you get, the better the consensus will be.



dr K said:


> It is always important to remember that you really are competing against the best beers in Australia, they have already been through one filter.
> Possibly that is why the tables were reduced to two judges each.



Taking dr K's first comment further, one of those entries has to come last. Obviously it would be ideal for the entries to appear in the order they qualified in (assuming the same beers in the same conditions), but there is always going to be some variability between competitions. I'm fairly certain there was no decision made to reduce the number of judges (in fact some categories did have three) - it would have been more to do with getting the competition done on time and the number of judges available on the day.

By the way, I judged that category at the AABC; let me know if you can't read any of my scrawl 

Cheers,
tallie


----------



## raven19

waggastew said:


> In the case of my beer it worked in its favour. My AIPA ...and the beer got a 1st place



It was tasty as! Enjoyed that beer immensely. Congrats again fella!


----------



## waggastew

AABC 2013 announcement of dates! Nice amount of time between NSW and AABC, will enable the lucky few to rebrew.

Also announced 3 new styles, American Amber, American Stout, American Wheat or Rye

http://www.aabc.org.au/


----------



## koots

When I check the website none of the state comps are updated with dates. What date is the NSW comp and how did you find it?


----------



## barls

state comp is in august and is the castle hill comp. have a look in this thread. it came up 3rd result when i searched comps
What NSW comps are on this year?

this is due to the fact that nether nsw representative has made themselves apparent in 3 years.


----------



## waggastew

Anyone know if you are allowed to have one or two entries per STYLE? (not category)


----------



## barls

the rules will be very similar to what they were last year.
but for a definite conformation pm stu and ask


----------



## Bribie G

Until now you could have two entries per category in the National comp, but to qualify for "exhibiting" you had to win places in the State comps in that style. But say you were placed in the State Comp with an Aussie lager and a Pale continental lager, you were allowed at the Nats level to completely change track and enter a Dortmunder and a Helles if you wished as they are two styles within the category.

IIRC I once got a placing with a FES in the state and entered a RIS in the Nats. However I would not have been eligible to enter a dry stout instead as that's a different category.

Edit, wish I hadn't read this thread, I had forgotten that American Wheat was a new style - I had my entries already planned. Oh no here we go again, rod for my own back coming up ...... :lol:


----------



## tcc

the QABC website is down does anyone know when the cutoff date is this year?

thanks..


----------



## tallie

tcc said:


> the QABC website is down does anyone know when the cutoff date is this year?


This year's dates are now up: http://qabc.org.au . The site seems to be a little temperamental, so try refreshing if it doesn't load immediately.


----------



## clarkey7

New AHB topic created for this years QABC, http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/72899-queensland-amateur-brewing-championship-2013/
Go QLD !!!


----------



## TBird

I'm having problems downloading labels and entry form for the AABC. No problem with QABC though.

Anybody else able to do this?

Thanks


----------



## manticle

You have to win eligibility for aabc - it's not open entry.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

manticle said:


> You have to win eligibility for aabc - it's not open entry.


And be a Pro member :lol:
Nev


----------



## TBird

manticle said:


> You have to win eligibility for aabc - it's not open entry.


OK newbie here re entering comps.

Who fills in the entry form for the AABC as detailed on the QABC site? Do you have to wait until the entries in the state comp are completed and then fill in the form?

Sorry if I've missed something here

Cheers


----------



## tallie

manticle said:


> You have to win eligibility for aabc - it's not open entry.


QABC entrants are being asked to submit a second bottle to this year's comp (with the AABC form) so we can forward on the qualifying entries on their behalf. Saves us a lot of running around after the comp, especially this year with it being so close to the nationals.



TBird said:


> I'm having problems downloading labels and entry form for the AABC. No problem with QABC though.
> 
> Anybody else able to do this?
> 
> Thanks


I've contacted the organisers and they're working on getting the form uploaded. PM me if you are planning on dropping your entries off before it's available.

Cheers,
tallie


----------



## manticle

You need to place in your state comp first. In vic, the organisers of the comp (vicbrew) then organise and post eligible entries. Not sure if qabc and others follow suit - check with them.


----------



## MartinOC

manticle said:


> You need to place in your state comp first. In vic, the organisers of the comp (vicbrew) then organise and post eligible entries. Not sure if qabc and others follow suit - check with them.


Wot he said. State qualification first.




tallie said:


> QABC entrants are being asked to submit a second bottle to this year's comp (with the AABC form) so we can forward on the qualifying entries on their behalf. Saves us a lot of running around after the comp, especially this year with it being so close to the nationals.


Hmmmm.... 'Sounds to me like some smart fellas up there have worked-out a way of getting a supply of half-decent beers from the "also-rans"...  Mind you, storing twice as many bottles than required "just-in-case" sounds like a logistic nightmare from my perspective.


----------



## TBird

Thanks tallie

PM on the way

Cheers


----------



## bradsbrew

MartinOC said:


> Hmmmm.... 'Sounds to me like some smart fellas up there have worked-out a way of getting a supply of half-decent beers from the "also-rans"...  Mind you, storing twice as many bottles than required "just-in-case" sounds like a logistic nightmare from my perspective.


Well bugger me, I did not even think of the left overs. Not that I really give a rats, but what happens to all the left overs after judging?


----------



## DU99

vicbrew


----------



## MartinOC

bradsbrew said:


> Well bugger me, I did not even think of the left overs. Not that I really give a rats, but what happens to all the left overs after judging?


Some have suggested running them through a still.......but I wouldn't recommend it.... :blink:


----------



## Toper

Well at Vicbrew,stewards are generally considered to have first pick of the left overs,if the flight has gotten a decent score and comments it's shared around,after that,it's the 'dregs' table for any punters to try..Martin of course,is waaaaaaaay to professional to drink while attending to his duties :lol:



bradsbrew said:


> Well bugger me, I did not even think of the left overs. Not that I really give a rats, but what happens to all the left overs after judging?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

As a past judge of other comps , we after the day sit back and imbibe the (good and unusual) left overs to make sure we didnt get it wrong.
Taxi 
Nev


----------



## MartinOC

toper01 said:


> Well at Vicbrew,stewards are generally considered to have first pick of the left overs,if the flight has gotten a decent score and comments it's shared around,after that,it's the 'dregs' table for any punters to try..Martin of course,is waaaaaaaay to professional to drink while attending to his duties :lol:


AHEM!!!

I wish to take umbrage at your comment, Sir!

At Vicbrew, my Stewards (notice I spell it with a Capital "S") are a very hard-working bunch that I believe deserve only the best & I make sure that they are rewarded for their efforts.

Purely in the interests of Quality Control ( h34r: ), I actually encourage the pouring Stewards to give everything a "sniff & sip" test before it's released for judging. That way, if there's an absolute "Dog", I can stop it ruining the judge's palates. The down-side of that is that I get to taste the dodgy-ones & decide if they're actually judgeable or not. 

If there's a good one, they are advised to refrain from such emotive outbursts as "Cor! **** me swinging! This one's an absolute CORKER! Hey, guys! Get your laughing-gear around this one!" before it's actually been judged......

If the beer scores well, the table-stewards will often return the jug to the Stewarding-area & QUIETLY (I stress this to them during their initial briefing!) let the others know that it's potentially one worth tasting. The others, generally get turfed down the sink.

I have no problem with my Stewards tasting/drinking whatever they want, as long as they don't get rat-arsed & can't do their job (again, part of their initial briefing). 

Now, toper, I have, on occasion, been known to assiduously apply a little bit of "Quality-Control" to my duties as Chief Steward & that, of necessity, means occasionally sipping a few beers here & there... h34r: . I'm sure you understand that it's always & ONLY in the interests of promoting the quality of the competition.....

OK, OK, so ....towards the end of the day, I'll find something I like & sneak a few :chug: but by then, having run the whole show, I feel justified in having earned a beer or two, or three...jugs....


----------



## bum

Pat in training.


----------



## MartinOC

bum said:


> Pat in training.


Who is this "PAT" of which you speak??


----------



## manticle

Pistol patch I am presuming.


----------



## Toper

Those bottles of 'Parabola' must be near going off by now Martin,we should do a taste test at Vicbrew,just for 'quality control'


----------



## citizensnips

manticle said:


> You need to place in your state comp first. In vic, the organisers of the comp (vicbrew) then organise and post eligible entries. Not sure if qabc and others follow suit - check with them.


Wait I thought you only send 1 bottle of 500ml and above. If you win do you then have to send it in to vicbrew and they forward it to the aabc comp? Or do you just send it yourself there. How does that part work, sorry I'm a comp noob .


----------



## manticle

If you win/place in vic comp, vicbrew will pay for your entries and arrange to get them to aabc. You do not need to fill out forms - just get your eligible entry to a rep in time.

Actually my memory may be fuzzy. Details on beer style, og/fg and yeasts used might be called for too.


----------



## bradsbrew

toper01 said:


> Well at Vicbrew,stewards are generally considered to have first pick of the left overs,if the flight has gotten a decent score and comments it's shared around,after that,it's the 'dregs' table for any punters to try..Martin of course,is waaaaaaaay to professional to drink while attending to his duties :lol:





Gryphon Brewing said:


> As a past judge of other comps , we after the day sit back and imbibe the (good and unusual) left overs to make sure we didnt get it wrong.
> Taxi
> Nev


I was refferring to that people are now to send 2 bottles to QABC and comp organisers will send off place getters to AABC free of charge, which I think is a great format. But it will leave alot of left over bottles, could be a couple of hundred. I know that in previous years you could send in 2 bottles so that the second bottle could be used for BOS but they were not really used as the judges do not drink the whole bottle.
I do not think it's a scandal or anything like that, just wondering who gets the job of emptying all those bottles. I think an emptying of left over bottles day for stewards and judges could be on the cards?


----------



## tallie

Brad, I've answered your question over at the QABC 2013 thread.


----------



## citizensnips

Cheers manticle, I'm going to be away for five months so was wanting to know what I would have to do in the slim chance I placed in something....


----------



## manticle

You do need to fill out a form and get your entry to someone from the Vicbrew committee. Sorry if I gave anyone a bum steer. Members of my brewclub are members of Vicbrew so it's been easily sorted for me the last couple of years.


----------



## bradsbrew

tallie said:


> Brad, I've answered your question over at the QABC 2013 thread.


Thanks Chris, as I said I don't really give give a rats what happens to them was just curious and besides all my second bottles will be off to AABC :lol: :lol:


----------



## AndrewQLD

Anyone having a poblem downloading the AABC entry form?


----------



## barls

Want to know if i can enter my high scoring mead


----------



## biggo

barls said:


> Want to know if i can enter my high scoring mead


I also have a mead which may be High scoring that I would love to enter


----------



## MartinOC

AndrewQLD said:


> Anyone having a poblem downloading the AABC entry form?


Andrew, I know we've covered this via PM, but for everyone else's benefit, please note as per the AABC website:

"Placing (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in any category at your State Qualifying Competition qualifies entrant to submit an entry, in the same category, at AABC 2013". 

 In other words, you can't enter the AABC directly without having qualified at State level. That's why there's no access to an entry form on the AABC website, soas to prevent someone getting a direct "wild-card" entry to the Nationals.


----------



## samhaldane

MartinOC said:


> In other words, you can't enter the AABC directly without having qualified at State level. That's why there's no access to an entry form on the AABC website, soas to prevent someone getting a direct "wild-card" entry to the Nationals.


How can those who placed in a state qualifying competition get access to the entry form? I'd like to know to where and by when entries have to be submitted.


----------



## bradsbrew

MartinOC said:


> Andrew, I know we've covered this via PM, but for everyone else's benefit, please note as per the AABC website:
> 
> "Placing (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in any category at your State Qualifying Competition qualifies entrant to submit an entry, in the same category, at AABC 2013".
> 
> In other words, you can't enter the AABC directly without having qualified at State level. That's why there's no access to an entry form on the AABC website, soas to prevent someone getting a direct "wild-card" entry to the Nationals.


In past comps you have been able to print and send, once you have qualified. The Queensland comp has changed it's format and will be sending to the nationals on the place getters behalf, but entries into the state comp require two bottles with one labeled for QABC and one labelled with AABC.


----------



## MartinOC

bradsbrew said:


> In past comps you have been able to print and send, once you have qualified. The Queensland comp has changed it's format and will be sending to the nationals on the place getters behalf, but entries into the state comp require two bottles with one labeled for QABC and one labelled with AABC.


Thanks Bradsbrew, for clarifying the Qld. system.

In Vic., we only ask for entries to Vicbrew. Once the place-getters are known, only THOSE brewers are contacted to submit a second bottle as their entries for the AABC. This cuts-down on logistics & storage of double the amount of bottles required to be submitted.


----------



## AndrewQLD

MartinOC said:


> Andrew, I know we've covered this via PM, but for everyone else's benefit, please note as per the AABC website:
> 
> "Placing (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in any category at your State Qualifying Competition qualifies entrant to submit an entry, in the same category, at AABC 2013".
> 
> In other words, you can't enter the AABC directly without having qualified at State level. That's why there's no access to an entry form on the AABC website, soas to prevent someone getting a direct "wild-card" entry to the Nationals.


Yes I know all that however the QABC is asking for two bottles for each entry, in the event you qualify the QABC are sending your second bottle down to the AABC for you, however you have to have a completed AABC entry form attached to the bottle when we send them to the QABC comp, so we need access to the national entry forms.


----------



## beachy

MartinOC said:


> Andrew, I know we've covered this via PM, but for everyone else's benefit, please note as per the AABC website:
> 
> "Placing (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in any category at your State Qualifying Competition qualifies entrant to submit an entry, in the same category, at AABC 2013".
> 
> In other words, you can't enter the AABC directly without having qualified at State level. That's why there's no access to an entry form on the AABC website, soas to prevent someone getting a direct "wild-card" entry to the Nationals.


The AABC entry form has always been available to download and print in the past. It is the information that entrants need to provide on it that prevents unqualified entries ie state of origin, category, placing etc.
Who fills out the entry form and attaches it to the bottle if the entrant doesn't have access to the form?


----------



## MartinOC

Guys, I've tried to be as helpful as I can, but you have to understand that I'm not involved with the AABC, except to act as Chief Steward when it's in Victoria.

I'd suggest that you contact the relevant State qualifying completion organisers & ask them your questions directly, as they'll almost certainly have contacts that they can call-on in the AABC arena & get your questions answered.

Like I said before, we do it differently in Victoria - only one bottle is submitted for Vicbrew. Once you qualify at that competition, the organisers contact you directly to submit your AABC-entry. Frankly, I can't see the point of asking for twice as many bottles as are needed, when only 54 beers/bottles from each state will actually qualify for the National competition. The rest is waste.

That's something the State's organizing bodies need to sort-out for themselves. I think they're creating a rod for their own backs by doing it differently.


----------



## tallie

In case anyone has missed it, the QABC aspect of this discussion is being addressed in this year's QABC thread. If there's any further questions related to the QABC qualifying comp, please post them there.


----------



## Bribie G

So when do entries for the AABC have to be delivered by?

One bottle or two of each entry?

Where do we send them to?

No info on the site yet.


----------



## Bubba Q

Bribie G said:


> So when do entries for the AABC have to be delivered by?
> 
> One bottle or two of each entry?
> 
> Where do we send them to?
> 
> No info on the site yet.


indeed. I also require this information so I can submit to my ass kicking


----------



## Barry

2013 AUSTRALIAN AMATEUR BREWING CHAMPIONSHIP, Friday/Saturday 1st/2nd November

CLOSING DATE FOR ENTRIES: Sat 26th October 2013
Deliver entries to:
AABC2013, c/- Brew Your Own At Home,
5 Primmer Ct, Kambah, ACT 2902

Entry Fee: $10 per entry, cheques payable to ‘Canberra Brewers Inc’.
For questions about delivery arrangements, contact: Charles Newton, Ph: 0417 047 196, [email protected]
Rules & Conditions
1. AABC Competition Rules and AABC Style Guidelines for judging are available at: www.aabc.org.au
2. Entries accepted only from brewers who have qualified via AABC State Qualifying Championships. Entrants must nominate a designated Style for the Category in which they have qualified, as listed overleaf. Organisers may reclassify or disqualify incorrectly nominated entries.
3. One bottle per entry (750ml preferred) with a minimum of 500 ml. If unavoidable, entrants may submit two smaller bottles, with duplicate entry forms clearly marked Bottle 1 and Bottle 2 attached separately to each. All entry forms and fees must be attached by rubber band only.
4. Beers in each Category will be judged by a panel of at least 3 judges. Completed scoresheets will be returned to entrants.
5. Trophies will be awarded for the 3 highest scoring beers in each Category. In the event of tied scores, placegetters will be decided by progressive count back as follows: a) highest score for Overall Impression; B) highest score for Flavour; c) lowest range of individual judge scores (smallest spread of scores across panel); d) the judging panel will be requested to resolve the tie.
6. Champion Beer of Show will be awarded to the highest scoring beer in the competition. In the event of a tie, a progressive count back will be used as for category placing.
7. Champion Brewer and Best State will be determined by the sum of place points awarded: 1st: 3 points, 2nd: 2 points; 3rd: 1 point.
8. AABC 2013 is a BJCP registered competition.
9. Competition will be judged on the 1st and 2nd of November at the Canberra Club, Level 1/45 West Row, Canberra, ACT 2601.
10. Presentations will be made at the AABC Club Night on Saturday 2nd November 2013.

See http://www.aabc.org.au/


----------



## Barry

The Brew Shop will receive entries from NSW brewers who have qualified for the Nationals. Closing date at The Brew Shop is 4pm Saturday 19th October. If you can't drop them off at the shop it would be best, for the entries, to send them straight to Canberra.
They will put them on a skip/small pallet, wrap the skip and send them on the Monday. This will ensure that they stay upright and reduce some of dangers associated with couriers.


----------



## Bribie G

Thanks Barry, panic averted :lol:

I'll post direct rather than sending down to the good folks at ESB - only one bottle and should be courier proof :beerbang:


----------



## Pokey

I normally bottle in stubbies or plastic coopers bottles, which would be better to send down for this?
Is either a disadvantage with the judges or are all bottles considered the same?
Hopefully I don't have to drink 2 cases of longnecks before bottling on the weekend


----------



## Yob

Bribie G said:


> Thanks Barry, panic averted :lol:
> 
> I'll post direct rather than sending down to the good folks at ESB - only one bottle and should be courier proof :beerbang:


What you entering Bribie?


----------



## manticle

Pokey said:


> I normally bottle in stubbies or plastic coopers bottles, which would be better to send down for this?
> Is either a disadvantage with the judges or are all bottles considered the same?
> Hopefully I don't have to drink 2 cases of longnecks before bottling on the weekend



From above





> 3. One bottle per entry (750ml preferred) with a minimum of 500 ml. If unavoidable, entrants may submit two smaller bottles, with duplicate entry forms clearly marked Bottle 1 and Bottle 2 attached separately to each. All entry forms and fees must be attached by rubber band only.


----------



## Harry Volting

Hi all
Is there an event schedule for the Nationals?
I realise that the judging is Nov 1 & 2 at the Canberra Club and the club night is on Saturday night,
or is that the event schedule? 
Planning to have a look around Canberra during the week around the comp.
A visit to Wig and Pen looks to be compulsory.
Any other clues would be appreciated. 
Bring it on.
Harry.


----------



## Weizguy

MartinOC said:


> <clip>
> 
> Purely in the interests of Quality Control ( h34r: ), I actually encourage the pouring Stewards to give everything a "sniff & sip" test before it's released for judging. That way, if there's an absolute "Dog", I can stop it ruining the judge's palates. The down-side of that is that I get to taste the dodgy-ones & decide if they're actually judgeable or not.
> 
> </clip>


I thought that all beer submitted for judging should be judged, graded and provided with feedback.

Are you saying that these beers are less worthy of the feedback that they paid for?

Judges have robust and resilient palates. If they don't, then that's why there is water and crackers to cleanse and refresh their palates.

I would be quite incensed, as I have been with past comps, where the only feedback was "could not judge". That tells me the judges were probably too drunk and/or incapable of judging my beer, and definitely too lazy to provide the feedback I paid for.

ALL beer is judgeable, OK? Who has the right to say that it isn't?

Would you care to rephrase your reply, Martin?


----------



## MartinOC

Nope!


----------



## vortex

At the Nationals I wouldn't expect any dogs to get through. The brewers and their beers have to qualify, don't forget.

I would expect my beer to be judged at the Nationals regardless of what a stewards opinion of it was. That is what the entry fee is for.


----------



## GalBrew

Les the Weizguy said:


> That tells me the judges were probably too drunk and/or incapable of judging my beer, and definitely too lazy to provide the feedback I paid for.


That is EXACTLY what was going on the whole weekend.......


----------



## Weizguy

Harry Volting said:


> Hi all
> Is there an event schedule for the Nationals?
> I realise that the judging is Nov 1 & 2 at the Canberra Club and the club night is on Saturday night,
> or is that the event schedule?
> Planning to have a look around Canberra during the week around the comp.
> A visit to Wig and Pen looks to be compulsory.
> Any other clues would be appreciated.
> Bring it on.
> Harry.


G'day Harry,

More qualifiers for the AABC?
I'd recommend lunch or drinks/ lunch at the Zierholz.
Have you got my mobile number, as I hope to organise myself enough to be there for the event.


----------



## manticle

My understanding is that every beer needs to be judged and given at least a courtesy score of 13.


----------



## Weizguy

manticle said:


> My understanding is that every beer needs to be judged and given at least a courtesy score of 13.


+1

My courtesy score is about 15, and the feedback should be helpful to the brewer. I also provide my email address on the judging forms, in case they seek further info (and if I can recall the brew).


----------



## MartinOC

For some reason, I can't reply to multiple quotes, so I'm going to have to do it individually.


Les the Weizguy said:


> I thought that all beer submitted for judging should be judged, graded and provided with feedback.
> 
> Yep! If the feedback is that it's un-judgeable, then that IS the feedback.
> 
> Are you saying that these beers are less worthy of the feedback that they paid for?
> 
> Why waste time on a less-worthy entry & potentially ruin three palates?
> 
> Judges have robust and resilient palates. If they don't, then that's why there is water and crackers to cleanse and refresh their palates.
> 
> I would be quite incensed, as I have been with past comps, where the only feedback was "could not judge". That tells me the judges were probably too drunk and/or incapable of judging my beer, and definitely too lazy to provide the feedback I paid for.
> 
> Funny, it tells me that you produced a shit beer & didn't like being told-so in your feedback/judging sheets. Sour grapes, or just sour beer???
> 
> ALL beer is judgeable, OK? Who has the right to say that it isn't?
> 
> The judges. I refer you to Rule D6 of the AABC Rules & Regs:
> 
> *D6. Judging. *Judging will be by blind tasting. Where possible, each judging panel will
> include at least one BJCP-qualified judge. Neither the judges nor the stewards serving the
> judges should know the name of the brewer whose beer is being served. Judges decisions are
> final and no correspondence will be entered into.
> 
> If the judges decide it's unjudgeable, then that's their decision - live with it!
> 
> Would you care to rephrase your reply, Martin?


----------



## MartinOC

manticle said:


> My understanding is that every beer needs to be judged and given at least a courtesy score of 13.


From the Judging Guidelines:

"If a beer is a “gusher” or has an unpleasant aroma upon opening, a judge
should not just assign a courtesy score of 13 without tasting and
commenting on the characteristics of the beer. If the judges genuinely
believe that the beer may be dangerous or hazardous to their health, they
may state this belief and provide as much feedback as they can to the
entrant, leaving the scores blank."

Stating their belief that the beer is "unjudgeable" is a courteous way of saying "I'm not game to put this thing anywhere near my face, let alone swallow it!"


----------



## NickB

Respectfully, Martin, I disagree with a lot of what you're saying.

Personally, if I were to make the Nats, I'd be more than ropeable if I found out that a steward had stopped my beer reaching the judges.

Even if a beer is totally infected, feedback can still be written. Judges can taste and smell what they have in the glass and judge on those criteria. Even it if received the lowest score possible, I'd still prefer the judges to get the beer in their glasses.


Anyway, my 2c.


Cheers


----------



## barls

MartinOC said:


> For some reason, I can't reply to multiple quotes, so I'm going to have to do it individually.


shouldn't the judges make that call not the stewards. Hence why they are called judges and are generally qualified
Mate if I entered a beer and it was a bad bottle or batch unknowingly I prefer to get the feed back from the judges that may help me correct it I future not get a response back not judged and find out later that the steward, who may or may not be a qualified judge, made the call and I've wasted my money.


----------



## MartinOC

Nick/Barls,

I think you've misunderstood me. I PERSONALLY don't make the decision - it's ALWAYS taken to the judges & THEY make the decision whether they actually want to judge it or not. If it's at VICBREW, I personally take it to the table (rather than the regular Steward) & discuss the situation with the whole panel & give them the option.

Sufficient clarification?


----------



## manticle

Yeah it did sound in the earlier post as if you would make that decision.

I agree with your clarification - at least this bit 


> I PERSONALLY don't make the decision - it's ALWAYS taken to the judges & THEY make the decision whether they actually want to judge it or not. If it's at VICBREW, I personally take it to the table (rather than the regular Steward) & discuss the situation with the whole panel & give them the option.


----------



## Weizguy

MartinOC said:


> Funny, it tells me that you produced a shit beer & didn't like being told-so in your feedback/judging sheets. Sour grapes, or just sour beer???


So, if I make an arguably disgusting beer (foul, perhaps), and paid my money to have it judged, no-one is expecting that I just paid to get told my beer is sh!te, without any indication of the the source of the outrage to tasting of my beer?
No feedback that I should look at my sanitation or ingredients or yeast health?
Or flavour degradation due to age of the beer, or mention that it was a gusher (which may have been otherwise OK, but over-carbonated)?

<edit> BASICALLY, tell me why the beer is not judgeable! Why is it sh!t? Like I said, LAZY judging. I'm judging those judges...</edit>

...And what if I made a sour beer, but the judge didn't like the flavour, and told me it was infected, and "unjudgeable"? What then? Was it an intentional sourness or an out-of-character Brett sourness that was detected. Yes, I had that feedback for a Berliner Weisse.

Didn't anyone tell you not to mention the war? :blink:


----------



## barls

Been told one of my lambics was too sour for style


----------



## Bribie G

Yob said:


> What you entering Bribie?


I rebrewed the Australian Premium Lager using JW Pilsner and Wyeast Danish and despite a couple of Hersbrucker plugs it doesn't seem to have the "noble" nose that you would get from the likes of Cascade Premium Lager or Hahn Premium in the good old days. 

So I'm agonising about whether to enter it as just a Standard Lager or not. Might crack another tasting bottle tonight and see how it's got on in the couple of weeks since I tried the last one.


----------



## Toper

Les the Weizguy said:


> So, if I make an arguably disgusting beer (foul, perhaps), and paid my money to have it judged, no-one is expecting that I just paid to get told my beer is sh!te, without any indication of the the source of the outrage to tasting of my beer?
> No feedback that I should look at my sanitation or ingredients or yeast health?
> Or flavour degradation due to age of the beer, or mention that it was a gusher (which may have been otherwise OK, but over-carbonated)?
> 
> <edit> BASICALLY, tell me why the beer is not judgeable! Why is it sh!t? Like I said, LAZY judging. I'm judging those judges...</edit>
> 
> ...And what if I made a sour beer, but the judge didn't like the flavour, and told me it was infected, and "unjudgeable"? What then? Was it an intentional sourness or an out-of-character Brett sourness that was detected. Yes, I had that feedback for a Berliner Weisse.
> 
> Didn't anyone tell you not to mention the war? :blink:


As someone who's had the chance to judge at Vicbrew several times,I'll give my 2c.If someone's entered and paid their good money,they deserve to have their beer judged and commented on.A good judge would never write a comment that a beer is "shite".Political correctness is the name of the game. It should make absolutely no difference whether a judge likes a certain style or not,they're judging against guidelines,not personal preference.I've only ever had 1 totally undrinkable beer,it was a massive infection,vinegar .The only comments were to check sanitation procedures..what more could anyone write? Gushers happen,they get judged the same as other entries,but if any possible off tastes are there ,it's kept in mind . Flavour degradition would be included in flavour/aroma comments on the score sheet,no reason not to judge it.You were told a Berliner Weisse was infected? That really shouldn't happen,someone not reading the guidelines correctly :unsure:


----------



## MartinOC

Ladies,

Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist & any more B&T about this issue than is warranted, let me tell you that in the 18+ years I've been Judging & Stewarding at state & national level, I could probably count on the fingers on one hand the number of catastrophic infections I've encountered. They happen VERY rarely & I've outlined to you the method I use of dealing with them - that's the important thing.

So, could everybody please just settle down & don't be so fkn precious. It's a HOBBY!!!!

Thank you for your generous consideration of this matter.

Edit: 18 years!? Shit!! My liver must HATE me!


----------



## Toper

No knickers in a knot here


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

Les the Weizguy said:


> So, if I make an arguably disgusting beer (foul, perhaps), and paid my money to have it judged, no-one is expecting that I just paid to get told my beer is sh!te, without any indication of the the source of the outrage to tasting of my beer?


I'd maybe expect to get my $10 back?


----------



## petesbrew

barls said:


> Been told one of my lambics was too sour for style


Rock n Roll, Barls!


----------



## petesbrew

with regards to the entry forms (dropping mine off at Peakhurst tomorrow), there's spaces left for Final & original gravity.
Is this compulsory to add? Honestly I only have a rough guess for these.


----------



## MartinOC

> with regards to the entry forms (dropping mine off at Peakhurst tomorrow), there's spaces left for Final & original gravity.
> Is this compulsory to add? Honestly I only have a rough guess for these.


It's a double-check to make sure a "big" beer isn't judged in a category where it's inappropriate (ie. low alcohol).

As long as it doesn't stand-out as being out of the ballpark, you should be fine (let's face it - if you got this far, it's almost certainly OK). Just have a guess.


----------



## petesbrew

MartinOC said:


> It's a double-check to make sure a "big" beer isn't judged in a category where it's inappropriate (ie. low alcohol).
> 
> As long as it doesn't stand-out as being out of the ballpark, you should be fine (let's face it - if you got this far, it's almost certainly OK). Just have a guess.


Cheers martin


----------



## fcmcg

Bribie G said:


> I rebrewed the Australian Premium Lager using JW Pilsner and Wyeast Danish and despite a couple of Hersbrucker plugs it doesn't seem to have the "noble" nose that you would get from the likes of Cascade Premium Lager or Hahn Premium in the good old days.
> 
> So I'm agonising about whether to enter it as just a Standard Lager or not. Might crack another tasting bottle tonight and see how it's got on in the couple of weeks since I tried the last one.


I'm maybe confused , but I thought you had to place in a state comp and enter the beer you placed in , in your state and that was the only way you could enter ?
F


----------



## MartinOC

> I'm maybe confused , but I thought you had to place in a state comp and enter the beer you placed in , in your state and that was the only way you could enter ?
> F


Here y'go Ferg....

From the AABC Rules & reg's:

"D1. Qualification. The first three placegetters at State/Territory Championships
automatically qualify for entry to the Australian Amateur Brewing Championship in the same
year (see D8 for resolving tied scores). A maximum of three entries in any category will be
accepted from each State/Territory. Entrants may enter only those categories in which their
placings were achieved. If the original beer is no longer available, entrants may submit a
different beer in the same or a different style in that category. The beer style nominated must
be a designated style for the category, as listed on AABC Entry Form available at
www.aabc.org.au. Organizers reserve the right to reclassify or disqualify non-conforming
entries. In the event that a qualifying entrant is unable to submit a beer in a particular
category, State/Territory organizers may invite the next highest scoring entrant in that
category to do so, in his/her own name, in order to fill the quota of three entries for AABC."


----------



## fcmcg

Martin, 
Thanks for clearing that up !
Also wondering , do you sleep ?! 3.45 am is pretty early to be posting on AHB lol
Cheers
Ferg


----------



## MartinOC

fergthebrewer said:


> Martin,
> Thanks for clearing that up !
> Also wondering , do you sleep ?! 3.45 am is pretty early to be posting on AHB lol
> Cheers
> Ferg


I try not to - I find it disruptive to my valuable drinking-time


----------



## Charlie

Hi all,

I know it might be a bit late, but I've finally got around to putting up the finer details of the AABC this year on the website (www.aabc.org.au).

As has followed since the great inaugural ANHC way back in 2008, there will be a club night associated with the event on the Saturday night to socialize with the judges, stewards and locals, sample their beer and have them sample yours. If you are interested in coming along, please send an email to [email protected] to let us know you are coming and if you need any dispensing equipment.

cheers

Charlie


----------



## Barry

You guys certainly plan ahead given your event information.

Australian Amateur Brewing Championships 2103
Event Schedule


----------



## Kodos

Canberra Brewers are looking forward to making this a big one!

Hope to see a few AHBers there!




Charlie said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I know it might be a bit late, but I've finally got around to putting up the finer details of the AABC this year on the website (www.aabc.org.au).
> 
> As has followed since the great inaugural ANHC way back in 2008, there will be a club night associated with the event on the Saturday night to socialize with the judges, stewards and locals, sample their beer and have them sample yours. If you are interested in coming along, please send an email to [email protected] to let us know you are coming and if you need any dispensing equipment.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Charlie


----------



## Fatgodzilla

I'll be going to Club Night. Can't be there for the judging (I really need to get my shit together). Anyone else from outside Canberra coming?


----------



## Kodos

We're away! One day down, one to go.

Looking forward to club night!

Canberra press came out today to cover it for us: Two days to sort out 300 beers, sip by sip

And don't forget we'll be tweeting the results (place-getters at least) live during the presentation. Check out [twitter]Canberrabrewers[/twitter] or watch for #AABC2013


----------



## JasonP

looks like Qld won again this year! Nice one chaps.


----------



## vortex

But the best brewer was from SA! Great work Beachy!


----------



## WarmBeer

Stoked! Got a placing at Nationals, absolutely wrapped.

Unfortunately, there's only 1 bottle left in existence, need to re-brew.


----------



## mxd

WarmBeer said:


> Stoked! Got a placing at Nationals, absolutely wrapped.
> 
> Unfortunately, there's only 1 bottle left in existence, need to re-brew.


well done


----------



## DU99

:super: Congrats..WB


----------



## Womball

Picked up 1st in the IPA's! Awesome. Shame there's none left.


----------



## Kodos

Any feedback on the live tweeting? Not a huge response in the twittersphere, just want to make sure it's worth doing again.


----------



## vortex

Kodos said:


> Any feedback on the live tweeting? Not a huge response in the twittersphere, just want to make sure it's worth doing again.


I was sitting with baited breath waiting for updates


----------



## Womball

Kodos said:


> Any feedback on the live tweeting? Not a huge response in the twittersphere, just want to make sure it's worth doing again.


Good idea and worked well. Nice to get the place results up last night.


----------



## RdeVjun

Great stuff indeed by all involved and congratulations to place- getters and champions, particularly so for Bribie with a magnificent result in Pale Lager. :super:

Queensland put in a very strong showing with over 300 entries in the state comp (qualifying round for these Nats), so I'm not that surprised it is the champion state at the Nats. Oh and having so many of the country's best brewers as residents probably helps! 

While I'm not a twitterer I've certainly appreciated the feed for getting prompt results out, Kodos, so many thanks for that.


----------



## AJ80

Any word on when the full results will be released?

Didn't expect a placing and was just stoked to qualify given I've been at this caper for less than a year!


----------



## brewtas

vortex said:


> I was sitting with baited breath waiting for updates


Same. I don't have a twitter account so I couldn't retweet or reply but I did embed the relevant tweet for me on my blog.


----------



## mxd

Kodos said:


> Any feedback on the live tweeting? Not a huge response in the twittersphere, just want to make sure it's worth doing again.


I thought it was great, would have been better if you mentioned my name , but for those fortunate enough to place I believe it would have been really enjoyable.

Well done.


----------



## beachy

Kodos said:


> Any feedback on the live tweeting? Not a huge response in the twittersphere, just want to make sure it's worth doing again.


The tweeting of results was a great idea. It was very exiting watching them come up last night.


----------



## cpotter

womball you beat me, I got second in the ipas. congrats


----------



## Womball

Well done mate, must say I was surprised.


----------



## Kodos

Good stuff, thanks guys, sorry we couldn't name everyone, only so many characters allowed in each tweet!

Next year I might try to work out a link that people can click that will go straight to a relevant search page or similar for those not on twitter. 

I'm not sure when the final results will get posted - I'm pretty sure the comp sec will want to give it a triple check before putting it all out. It was a pretty huge effort from Charlie to get all the results entered into the spreadsheet and sorted between when judging finished Saturday and club night started.

Big shout out to the Westgate Brewers guys who stepped up to help us with stewarding, much appreciated. Especially those who started Saturday morning a bit dusty from their *cough* "research" the night before! :lol:


----------



## fcmcg

I didn't place either but was stoked to be in it..
Westgate came away with a two firsts and a third..
The bloke that got 7 placings at Vicbrew didn't get a cracker..just goes to show the vagaries of beer judging ...
I also hear that the 6 Westgaters that went up also got mentioned in dispatches ( tweeted) for all their efforts stewarding and judging ...bloody brilliant effort boys !
A very proud westgater here...


----------



## fcmcg

I didn't place either but was stoked to be in it..
Westgate came away with a two firsts and a third..
The bloke that got 7 placings at Vicbrew didn't get a cracker..just goes to show the vagaries of beer judging ...
I also hear that the 6 Westgaters that went up also got mentioned in dispatches ( tweeted) for all their efforts stewarding and judging ...bloody brilliant effort boys !
A very proud westgater here...


----------



## vortex

fergthebrewer said:


> The bloke that got 7 placings at Vicbrew didn't get a cracker..just goes to show the vagaries of beer judging ...


Ain't that the truth! I beat Beachy in two categories here at SABSOSA, winning both (Pale Lager and Pilsner (Pils was a 39 here..)), and neither placed at AABC. Stoked for Beachy though, he cleaned up!

Looking forward to next year!


----------



## Hbom

Kodos said:


> Any feedback on the live tweeting? Not a huge response in the twittersphere, just want to make sure it's worth doing again.


Hi Kodos,

While I didn't send any tweets, I was certainly following the results as they came out as I had a beer in the Bitter Ale category. Very much appreciated being able find out the results that night.

Cheers.


----------



## raven19

AJ80 said:


> Any word on when the full results will be released?
> 
> Didn't expect a placing and was just stoked to qualify given I've been at this caper for less than a year!


Defo do it again next year please.

Good job!

Well done to Beachy taking champion brewer crown, and to SA for equal 2nd in state vs state.

Hoping to get an SA table over to Canbeera next year for the anhc too.


----------



## barls

mate we all know the real comp is club night and i believe isb won it again. 
if we win again next year can we rename it to isb night :beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:


----------



## Hoser

fergthebrewer said:


> I didn't place either but was stoked to be in it..
> Westgate came away with a two firsts and a third..
> The bloke that got 7 placings at Vicbrew didn't get a cracker..just goes to show the vagaries of beer judging ...
> I also hear that the 6 Westgaters that went up also got mentioned in dispatches ( tweeted) for all their efforts stewarding and judging ...bloody brilliant effort boys !
> A very proud westgater here...


Yup I came up with a donut. Very happy though to have placed well at Vicbrew. Obviously a beer needs to be good to win (or at least can't be bad) but at AABC there are undoubtedly many good beers. Would've loved to win but clearly other ones were judged to be better. 

Well done to your Westgate crew as well Ferg.

Well done to all those that won - especially the Qld and SA crew!


----------



## fcmcg

Thanks hoser..your still state champ mate and that's an effort in itself !


----------



## Harry Volting

Good show blokes.
Thanks to all involved.
Now I know what a Doctor of Divinity looks like.
I'm having dreams about Wig & Pen, Centenary...Venom...Armpit.

I still don't know how my beer went. 
All good though. I'll drink the rest of the keg while I wait.

Has anyone seen Les?

Harry


----------



## JasonP

Anyone know if the full results list has been posted anywhere?


----------



## Kodos

Anyone know if the full results list has been posted anywhere?


It will go up on http://www.aabc.org.au within a day or so.


----------



## O-beer-wan-kenobi

Looks like the results are up on the website. Looks like one of mine is labelled as a different beer to what I entered??

Well done to all those that placed


----------



## petesbrew

A big congratulations to all placegetters and Thanks to all the judges.
Didn't win but I'm happy to have made it this far!


----------



## mxd

pretty happy, the scores were within rage of vic brew, which is better than my last 3 attempts


----------



## Weizguy

Harry Volting said:


> Good show blokes.
> Thanks to all involved.
> Now I know what a Doctor of Divinity looks like.
> I'm having dreams about Wig & Pen, Centenary...Venom...Armpit.
> 
> I still don't know how my beer went.
> All good though. I'll drink the rest of the keg while I wait.
> 
> Has anyone seen Les?
> 
> Harry


I'm back on deck at work. Have battled most of my fatigue and overcome it.
Thanks to you (and Rennie) for some entertainment.
Please be notified that my keggle (Club Night Raffle prize) got back to Kastle Kurtz OK on the bus, and back to the fiery swamp by car on Sunday.
Great prize. Many thanks to the Canberra Brewers and the work they put in to make it all run so smoothly.
Also thanks for the judges gifts. I would have been happy with the fine ales, but the portable refractometer was a bonus, indeed.
Much respect to Dr K for hospitality and generosity, AND of course the Entertainment!
Beerz to all.
See you all again next year!


----------



## mikk

It's already been said, but good on the comp organisers & judges/stewards that made the event happen.

Also, a big congrats to Adam Beauchamp on an emphatic win. May you be able to make the most of the many opportunities that will present themselves over the next 12 months.


On a minor side-note, does anyone know how the runner-up Champion Brewer was determined? Not so sure the AABC guidelines were followed with this one.... h34r:


----------



## Harry Volting

All Good Les.
Happy to help.
Your dedication is to be admired. 
What Rennies can't fix is probably going to be a cardiac arrest anyway, right?

Harry.


----------



## Bribie G

Any news about score sheets? Are they being sent by snail mail this year or by email?

Also what are the prizes? Not expecting anything myself as I only got a minor gong, but can't find any info on the main site.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

mikk said:


> On a minor side-note, does anyone know how the runner-up Champion Brewer was determined? Not so sure the AABC guidelines were followed with this one.... h34r:


Really? Looking at the placings, there were two brewers that got three medals. Barry Cranston got a 1st and two 3rds, and Brad Brown got a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. 


Rules state: 

_D10. Champion Brewer and Champion State._
_The sum of category placing points is to be used for deciding Champion Brew__er and Champion State. Category placing points are 3 points for first place, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third place. _

Then there's a bunch on tie breaking, but that doesn't seem relevant here.

I wasn't involved with the score calculations, but just don't see where you're coming from?


----------



## mikk

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Really? Looking at the placings, there were two brewers that got three medals. Barry Cranston got a 1st and two 3rds, and Brad Brown got a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
> 
> 
> Rules state:
> 
> _D10. Champion Brewer and Champion State._
> _The sum of category placing points is to be used for deciding Champion Brew__er and Champion State. Category placing points are 3 points for first place, 2 points for second place, and 1 point for third place. _
> 
> Then there's a bunch on tie breaking, but that doesn't seem relevant here.
> 
> I wasn't involved with the score calculations, but just don't see where you're coming from?




Brad Bown & Michael Wallace (me) each have a total of 6 points, Barry received 5 pts (3 pts for 1st, 2 pts for 2nd, 1 pt for 3rd). So as we have a tie by placing points, the individual judging scores come into play.
The AABC rules state that in the event of a tie in points, then the sum of the placing points multiplied by the judging points will determine the highest placing entrant.
eg-
Brad Bown's 3 beers scored- 1st 104 pts, 2nd 120 pts, 3rd 116 pts. His total score is (3x104)+(2x120)+(1x116)= 668 pts

Michael Wallace's 2 beers scored 1st 118.5 pts, 1st 120 pts. His total score is (3x118.5)+(3x120)=715.5 pts


Rules are here: www.aabc.org.au/docs/AABC_AimsRulesInformationWeb_20090319.pdf

I was just hoping that someone involved in the comp might tell me how the placings were determined? I don't expect anything regarding the final results to be changed, but it seems to me at first glance that the results aren't correct. Happy to be corrected though. No biggie either way.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Two firsts are the same points as a first, a second and a third



I'm with you know. I must admit I was just looking at the raw medal numbers. I'll draw Charlie's attention to this thread and get him to touch base with you.


----------



## Charlie

Michael,

My apologies, you're correct - my adding up didn't, well, add up. I'll have the website updated to reflect this.

On a side note - with regards to the score sheets, everyone should have them by the end of the weekend. My plan was to scan them in and email them out, with the option of having the physical copies also mailed, but I seriously under estimated the effort required to do the scanning and the amount of free time I've had this week. I've got around 15 brewers left to scan, sadly one of them is Adam so that will take 30 minutes on its own ; )

cheers

Charlie


----------



## Bribie G

Wow, I've done some bulk scanning exercises in the past as well, for some reason those scanning bars haven't speeded up at all over the last 20 years, I feel your pain :lol:

Looking forward.


----------



## mxd

you need a photocopier like we have at work, it will scan and email


----------



## jimmyjackpot

Have all of the scoresheets been emailed out now? 

I have not received anything yet but do know of others who have. Anyone else not received their scoresheets?


----------



## mikk

Website not updated for correction in runner-up Champion Brewer either.


----------



## mbilbrough

Hi All,

Medals for 1st, 2nd & 3rd should be sent out in the coming week. 

Cheers,
Billy


----------



## Charlie

Apologies for not updating the website yet - I've been off work since a couple of days after the AABC and not had access to where I stored the results doc. Back on deck tomorrow so will have sorted by tomorrow night.

But the results were all emailed out a week ago, so if anyone hasn't received their results electronically, please send me a PM with their email address (and name if its not obvious from your username)

cheers

Charlie


----------



## Lawfo

[SIZE=10pt]Brewers,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]In 2014 the Australian Amateur Brewing Championships (AABC) is being held in Canberra immediately prior to the Australian National Homebrewing Conference (ANHC).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]With tickets now on sale for the ANHC, I have had several inquiries from Judges and Stewards wanting to be involved, whilst visiting for the conference.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]We want to complete the judging of all categories in 1 morning session, this will allow participants to enjoy the ANHC activities planned for the afternoon.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]So if you have the experience, and are keen to help out, we would love to see you here. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The 2014, AABC details at this time are: [/SIZE]

*[SIZE=10pt]Date: 16/10/2014[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]Time: 9.00am for a 9:30am start[/SIZE]*
*[SIZE=10pt]Location: BentSpoke Brewing Co, 38 Mort Street, Braddon, ACT.[/SIZE]*

[SIZE=10pt]Please register you interest by emailing me at: mailto:[email protected] mailto:[email protected]mailto:[email protected] and I will contact you closer to the date and provide you with further details.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Thanks in advance for your support[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Lawfo[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Canberra Brewers - Competition Secretary [/SIZE]


----------



## Lawfo

Congratulations to those brewers who have placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in each category of their state competition, your entries have qualified for the Nationals!

What you need to do now is to ensure you entry is shipped and received at BentSpoke Brewing Co, by COB, 3 October 2014 - Just letting you know now that late arrivals won't be accepted, this is the Nat's and the deadline (emphasis on DEADLINE) is 3 October for all states & territories, so make sure it arrives on or before this date.

You're entrie/s must comply with the AABC rules listed on the entry form at:

http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/Entry%20Form%20AABC2014.pdf.

If you have any questions, please forward them to me through the contact details on the entry form and not on this thread.

Brew Strong!
Lawfo


----------



## moodgett

Awesome  got my entries out this morning


----------



## mkstalen

Got mine into the mail on Friday, according to the Austpost tracker it was delivered today.


----------



## syl

God I am lazy! Must Express Post this tomorrow!!!!

Suggestions on packing beer for Aus Post??


----------



## moodgett

syl said:


> God I am lazy! Must Express Post this tomorrow!!!!
> 
> Suggestions on packing beer for Aus Post??


I grabbed an empty large envelope box from work, wrapped my two pint bottles separately in bubble wrap. Then filled it with flow pack till nothing could move around. Cost 11.95 to ship from hunter area nsw to canberra


----------



## syl

moodgett said:


> I grabbed an empty large envelope box from work, wrapped my two pint bottles separately in bubble wrap. Then filled it with flow pack till nothing could move around. Cost 11.95 to ship from hunter area nsw to canberra



Thanks boss!


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

I bottled my comp entries in plastic, so I can just chuck em in a post pack ($13.40 for a 3kg one) and lodge it over the counter with tracker.

Mine got delivered on Friday according to the tracker. Woo!


----------



## moodgett

syl said:


> Thanks boss!


lol no worries mate


----------



## Charlie

Hi Everyone,

Just a clarifying post with regards to the mead and cider categories. When this was discussed with the AABA committee last year, it was decided that because a number of states weren't necessarily going to be able to judge those categories, the points from those categories wouldn't count towards Champion Beer, State or Brewer.

This was listed in the style guidelines pdf http://www.aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2014StyleGuidelines.pdf but hadn't been more widely communicated.

cheers
Charles
ACT AABA representative


----------



## GrumpyPaul

How's the judging going????


----------



## manticle

They're unable to continue as someone has stolen all the question marks.


----------



## DU99

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,These DO


----------



## GrumpyPaul

manticle said:


> They're unable to continue as someone has stolen all the question marks.


I find your issue with my question mark usage questionable


----------



## manticle

??!?what??!?

That's 3 more days till results are posted. We'd better stop now!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

3 Days.............really?


----------



## manticle

Could make it four!!!!

Up to you?!!!????? Use an apostrophe for a plural and it might be a month!!?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Now your really being exclamatory and questionable. 

#Ispeltyourwrongjustbecauseyou'repicky


----------



## manticle

Good luck with the award's!!!


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

All! Will! Be! REVEALE'D?!? IN LESS, than 24 h?o!ur?s!!!


----------



## nvs-brews

spewing.. took 1st place in WA for cider..
pitty i drank it all hahahaha
didnt have any brewed or enough time to put 1 on..
There is always next year :chug:


----------



## Dan Pratt

Its something I realized is what you enter, needs to have other bottle availble for nationals or a timeframe to re-brew.

Fortunatly for us in NSW we have about 6-8wks from state to nationals and can re-brew/fine tune the entrys.


----------



## nvs-brews

Yeah lesson learnt there..
Should really bottle some from every batch, should... don't yet..


----------



## nvs-brews

and at least bottle a couple of litres not just 1L


----------



## CmdrRyekr

Got one of me cans of goop in the comp, when's the results going to be out?

Me brother recons I'm a shoe in! No one mixes a can of goop with a box of DME better than I do!


----------



## earle

Can't ....... stop ........ checking ......... this ......... thread ........ for ......... updates ........ on ........ results. 

Must ......... resist.


----------



## yum beer

earle said:


> Can't ....... stop ........ checking ......... this ......... thread ........ for ......... updates ........ on ........ results.
> 
> Must ......... resist.


So me putting this post in here isn't going to help you any.......


----------



## GrumpyPaul

yum beer said:


> So me putting this post in here isn't going to help you any.......


you are an evil man.....

and now so am I


----------



## AndrewQLD

I doubt you will get results until after the presentation dinner.


----------



## CmdrRyekr

AndrewQLD said:


> I doubt you will get results until after the presentation dinner.


can one ov the brew club people put them on the twitters ?


----------



## mondestrunken

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5...


----------



## AndrewQLD

CmdrRyekr said:


> can one ov the brew club people put them on the twitters ?


Not much info but here is the twitter thingy https://twitter.com/search?q=%23aabc2014&src=typd


----------



## Kodos

Barring any technical glitches, the results will be tweeted tonight during the presentation. I *think* the presentation is from about 9pm.

Follow @anhcfour, or keep an eye on the hashtags #anhcfour and/or #aabc2014

Should be a great night!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Placings on twitter now


----------



## DU99

who twitters..


----------



## GrumpyPaul

DU99 said:


> who twitters..


Until tonight -not me.

I cant even figure out how to cut and paste from twitter inot here


----------



## schoey

DU99 said:


> who twitters..


https://twitter.com/anhcfour
They screwed up the hashtag #AABC2012


----------



## schoey

Results - Sorry about the crappy formatting

Well done to all brewers.


CHAMPION BREWER: eq 2nd J Kingston (Vic) and B Cranston (NSW) 5pts - 1st K Hingston (ACT) 8pts (2x1st, 2x3rd)
CHAMPION BEER OF SHOW: Adam Beauchamp (SA) American IPA, 132pts
CHAMPION STATE (excl Meads and Ciders): 3rd NSW 20, 2nd ACT 22, 1st Vic 23
CIDER 1, S Wakeham (QLD) Other Cider 124; 2, C Fletcher (VIC) Other Cider 120; 3, N Semmens (QLD) Other Cider 119.
MEAD 1, S Kirby (NSW) Other Mead 131; 2, G Hooper (QLD) Metheglin 130; 3, J Button (NSW) Other Mead 126.
SPECIALTY 1, B Moss (NSW) Rauchbier 124; 2, J Kingston (VIC) Wood-aged 120; 3, MKash (QLD) Spice/Herb/Vegetable 118.
FARMHOUSE & WILD 1, M Johnson (QLD) Sais 123.5; 2, S Hogarth (ACT) Fruit Lmbc 123; 3, D Barlin (NSW) Straight Lmbc 117.
WHEAT & RYE BEER 1, K Hingston (ACT) Weizen 126; 2, T Dixon (ACT) Weizenbock 122; 3, S Carter (TAS) Roggenbier 116.
BELGIAN STRONG 1, K Hingston (ACT) Golden 125.5; 2, S Lawford (ACT) Tripel 121; 3, B van Denderen (VIC) Blond 113.
STRONG ALE 1, J Kingston (VIC) Scotch Ale 128; 2, S Whytcross (ACT) Scotch Ale 114.5; 3, B Cranston (NSW) Old Ale 114.
INDIA PALE ALE 1, A Beauchamp (SA) US IPA 132; 2, M Overton (ACT) US IPA 130; 3, P Baggoley (ACT) US IPA 124.
STRONG STOUT 1, J McGrath (WA) RIS 131; 2, A Lewis (ACT) RIS125; 3, A Mitchell (WA) American Stout 120.
STOUT 1, M Bowron (VIC) Dry Stout 121; 2, A Reich (SA) Oatmeal Stout 120; 3, T Dixon (ACT) Sweet Stout 117.
PORTER 1, M Plank (NSW) Baltic 122; 2, K Smith (SA) Robust 117; 3, B Cranston (NSW) Baltic 115.
BROWN ALE 1, T Brown (QLD) American Brown 131; 2, A Mahony (QLD) Scottish 126; 3, J McCulloch (VIC) Irish Red 117.
BITTER ALE 1, D Pratt (NSW) American Amber 117; 2, S Clifford (WA) ESB 112; 3, M Rudge (QLD) English Best Bitter 94.
AMERICAN PALE ALE 1, B Crockett (NSW) 126.5; 2, N Semmens (QLD) A Pale Ale 122; 3, K Hingston (ACT) 116.
PALE ALE 1, A Mitchell (WA) English Pale 123.5; 2, P Bradshaw (SA) Cream Ale 111.5; 3, S Batty (SA) Aust Pale 103.5.
STRONG LAGER (>6% ABV) 1, R Lawrance (QLD) Bock 126; 2, A Mahony (QLD) Bock 123.5; 3, K Hingston (ACT) Bock 123.
AMBER&DARK LAGER 1, J Killmister (VIC) Schwarz 121; 2, M Hutton (WA) Vienna Lgr 120.5; 3, Paul Schofield (QLD) Okt 120.
PILSENER 1, B Cranston (NSW) German Pils 129; 2, B van Denderen (VIC) Gmn Pils 108; 3, D Bussemake (WA) Gmn Pils 102.
LOW ALCOHOL 1, B Roberts (VIC) Mild Ale 127; 2, B Bown (SA) Leichtes Weizen 118; 3, J Strantzen (VIC) Mild 114.


----------



## hoppinmad

For those without twitter


----------



## Bogan333

LOW ALCOHOL 1, B Roberts (VIC) Mild Ale 127; 2, B Bown (SA) Leichtes Weizen 118; 3, J Strantzen (VIC) Mild 114

PILSENER 1, B Cranston (NSW) German Pils 129; 2, B van Denderen (VIC) Gmn Pils 108; 3, D Bussemake (WA) Gmn Pils 102
AMBER&DARK LAGER 1, J Killmister (VIC) Schwarz 121; 2, M Hutton (WA) Vienna Lgr 120.5; 3, Paul Schofield (QLD) Okt 120
STRONG LAGER (>6% ABV) 1, R Lawrance (QLD) Bock 126; 2, A Mahony (QLD) Bock 123.5; 3, K Hingston (ACT) Bock 123
PALE ALE 1, A Mitchell (WA) English Pale 123.5; 2, P Bradshaw (SA) Cream Ale 111.5; 3, S Batty (SA) Aust Pale 103.5.
AMERICAN PALE ALE 1, B Crockett (NSW) 126.5; 2, N Semmens (QLD) A Pale Ale 122; 3, K Hingston (ACT) 116
BITTER ALE 1, D Pratt (NSW) American Amber 117; 2, S Clifford (WA) ESB 112; 3, M Rudge (QLD) English Best Bitter 94
BROWN ALE 1, T Brown (QLD) American Brown 131; 2, A Mahony (QLD) Scottish 126; 3, J McCulloch (VIC) Irish Red 117
PORTER 1, M Plank (NSW) Baltic 122; 2, K Smith (SA) Robust 117; 3, B Cranston (NSW) Baltic 115
STOUT 1, M Bowron (VIC) Dry Stout 121; 2, A Reich (SA) Oatmeal Stout 120; 3, T Dixon (ACT) Sweet Stout 117
STRONG STOUT 1, J McGrath (WA) RIS 131; 2, A Lewis (ACT) RIS125; 3, A Mitchell (WA) American Stout 120
INDIA PALE ALE 1, A Beauchamp (SA) US IPA 132; 2, M Overton (ACT) US IPA 130; 3, P Baggoley (ACT) US IPA 124
STRONG ALE 1, J Kingston (VIC) Scotch Ale 128; 2, S Whytcross (ACT) Scotch Ale 114.5; 3, B Cranston (NSW) Old Ale 114
BELGIAN STRONG 1, K Hingston (ACT) Golden 125.5; 2, S Lawford (ACT) Tripel 121; 3, B van Denderen (VIC) Blond 113
WHEAT & RYE BEER 1, K Hingston (ACT) Weizen 126; 2, T Dixon (ACT) Weizenbock 122; 3, S Carter (TAS) Roggenbier 116
SPECIALTY 1, B Moss (NSW) Rauchbier 124; 2, J Kingston (VIC) Wood-aged 120; 3, MKash (QLD) Spice/Herb/Vegetable 118
MEAD 1, S Kirby (NSW) Other Mead 131; 2, G Hooper (QLD) Metheglin 130; 3, J Button (NSW) Other Mead 126
CIDER 1, S Wakeham (QLD) Other Cider 124; 2, C Fletcher (VIC) Other Cider 120; 3, N Semmens (QLD) Other Cider 119

CHAMPION STATE (excl Meads and Ciders): 3rd NSW 20, 2nd ACT 22, 1st Vic 23
CHAMPION BEER OF SHOW: Adam Beauchamp (SA) American IPA, 132pts
CHAMPION BREWER: eq 2nd J Kingston (Vic) and B Cranston (NSW) 5pts - 1st K Hingston (ACT) 8pts (2x1st, 2x3rd)

What happen cat 2 Pale Lager? That piss me off as I had my beer in that one.


----------



## GalBrew

Pale Lager?????


----------



## Not For Horses

Tassie represent! Only one placing but still. I was lucky enough to judge that beer at the state comps. Well done Stu!


----------



## MartinOC

GalBrew said:


> Pale Lager?????


Yes, mate - the category you just got a 3rd prize in with your Dortmunder!!

Congratulations (bastard   )!!


----------



## Bogan333

MartinOC said:


> Yes, mate - the category you just got a 3rd prize in with your Dortmunder!!
> 
> Congratulations (bastard!!  )!!


Who got 1st and 2nd in the Pale Lager?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

I guess the rest of us mere mortal brewers that had entries but didnt place need to wait for the organisers to enjoy a well earned beer or two and post the rest of the scores tommorow after the hangover clears.

Have a good night all.


----------



## schoey

Sorry guys, I missed the Pale Lager category, the feed I was watching didn't tweet it. 


PALE LAGER 1, G Morley (VIC) Munich Helles 122.5; 2, S Smith (NSW) Aus Prem Lager 115; 3, A Galle (VIC) Dortmunder 113.


----------



## Bogan333

schoey said:


> Sorry guys, I missed the Pale Lager category, the feed I was watching didn't tweet it.
> 
> 
> PALE LAGER 1, G Morley (VIC) Munich Helles 122.5; 2, S Smith (NSW) Aus Prem Lager 115; 3, A Galle (VIC) Dortmunder 113.


Thank you 

schoey


----------



## GalBrew

Wooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!


----------



## GalBrew

MartinOC said:


> Yes, mate - the category you just got a 3rd prize in with your Dortmunder!!
> 
> Congratulations (bastard   )!!


Thanks Martin, that's pretty cool.


----------



## schoey

georgecopley said:


> Thank you
> schoey


No worries.

Cheers to @anhcfour for the live twitter feed and @PBaggoley for filling in the Pale Lager gap.


----------



## GalBrew

schoey said:


> No worries.
> 
> Cheers to @anhcfour for the live twitter feed and @PBaggoley for filling in the Pale Lager gap.


Yes, big thanks to @PBaggoley for putting me out of my misery!


----------



## Bogan333

GalBrew said:


> Yes, big thanks to @PBaggoley for putting me out of my misery!


Congratulations


----------



## Bogan333

Congratulations to WA boys on their placing

D Bussemake 3rd in cat 3 PILSENER

M Hutton 2nd in cat 4 AMBER&DARK LAGER

A Mitchell in cat 6 PALE ALE

J McGrath 1st and A Mitchell 3rd in cat 12 STRONG STOUT


----------



## Kodos

schoey said:


> No worries.
> 
> Cheers to @anhcfour for the live twitter feed and @PBaggoley for filling in the Pale Lager gap.


Whoops, sorry guys, tweet deck must have switched accounts on me.

Sorry also for the hashtag stuff up! That'll learn me for copy+pasting too quickly. 

The comp sec has a pretty full day helping wrap at ANHC tomorrow and pack up on Sunday - the final score might take a few days to get them properly formatted and up on the website. 

It was a huge night, congrats to all the winners, esp Mr NoTip for taking out Champion Brewer!


----------



## Mickcr250

So stoked!


----------



## Mickcr250

Does anyone know what the prize is for a first in category? I can't seem to find it on the website


----------



## JasonP

Just bragging rights.


----------



## Mickcr250

I'm happy with that


----------



## Kodos

JasonP said:


> Just bragging rights.


And a shiny medal!!


----------



## steinthoraleboy

Do you get a medal for first or any place as I got third? In specialty  very happy with that


----------



## Lawfo

steinthoraleboy said:


> Do you get a medal for first or any place as I got third? In specialty  very happy with that


Gold, Silver & Bronze medals are given for the 3 highest scores in each category.

Congratulations, you will receive a bronze medal.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Are we getting close to posting the rest of results?

Keen to hear how I went even though I didn't place


----------



## Kodos

GrumpyPaul said:


> Are we getting close to posting the rest of results?
> 
> Keen to hear how I went even though I didn't place





Kodos said:


> The comp sec has a pretty full day helping wrap at ANHC tomorrow and pack up on Sunday - the final score might take a few days to get them properly formatted and up on the website.


----------



## glenos

Not For Horses said:


> Tassie represent! Only one placing but still. I was lucky enough to judge that beer at the state comps. Well done Stu!


Well done Stu and John for the honourable mention for the fifth ingedient comp,http://anhc.com.au/index.php/competitions/the-fifth-ingredient-is-you-the-results-are-in


----------



## Lawfo

Yes, the time is near.....

Keep you eye on http://www.aabc.org.au/ over the next day or two.

Score sheets (and medals - if applicable) will be mailed out within the next 2 week.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Full results are up.

http://www.aabc.org.au/stateresults/AABC2014FullResults.pdf

Fairly happy with my 6th place in the Brown Ale.


----------



## GrantSpatchcock

Thanks to all involved in the comp and judging, and getting the results back quickly!

Stoked with my 7th placed Mild Ale, not bad for my first self designed recipe in my first six months of brewing! (And I just pipped Barls, again  ). Can't wait for the feedback!


----------



## 2much2spend

How did I get ranked hire than my vicbrew comrades?


----------



## Black n Tan

I was completely blown away to get a first for my Munich Helles  and so so close with a fourth for my Maibock  . Still pinching myself. My Berliner Weisse was a wild card so happy with a sixth. It was a great conference and competition and many thanks to the Canberra Brewers for stunning few days. A lot of work goes into running something like that and it shouldn't go unrecognised. :beerbang:


----------



## browndog

Congrats to my little club, The Ipswich Brewers Union. Less than 20 members and scoring 3 firsts and 3 fourths, well done you guys.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Snow

Yes well done all the place getters! In many categories it was very close, so it wasn't easy for the judges.

Can anyone remember what the score ranges were for Gold, silver and bronze medals? I seem to remember someone saying they were different from some of the state medal scores...

Cheers - Snow.


----------



## Lawfo

Medals were for point rangers of:

90+ Bronze
105+ Silver
120+ Gold


----------



## Spiesy

glenos said:


> Well done Stu and John for the honourable mention for the fifth ingedient comp,http://anhc.com.au/index.php/competitions/the-fifth-ingredient-is-you-the-results-are-in


Ummm... what exactly is _cocunt_?


----------



## Droopy Brew

Spiesy said:


> Ummm... what exactly is _cocunt_?


A partner in .. well... cuntiness I guess?


----------



## Spiesy

lol :lol:


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Lawfo said:


> Medals were for point rangers of:
> 
> 90+ Bronze
> 105+ Silver
> 120+ Gold


Is this true - or is it just first, second and third place getters that were recognised?

Does this mean my 111 score = a silver medal?


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Spiesy said:


> Ummm... what exactly is _cocunt_?





Droopy Brew said:


> A partner in .. well... cuntiness I guess?


Spiesy does that make Cocko your Cocunt?


----------



## Droopy Brew

That sounds like 2/3s of a menage au toi menag au twa threesome.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Droopy Brew said:


> menag au twa


did you say "manage a twat"?


----------



## Droopy Brew

Thanks Grumoy I was never any good at this splink caper. That will do.


----------



## Black n Tan

Lawfo said:


> Medals were for point rangers of:
> 
> 90+ Bronze
> 105+ Silver
> 120+ Gold


I don't think so. Only place getters got medals.


----------



## bradsbrew

Spiesy said:


> Ummm... what exactly is _cocunt_?


 http://aussiehomebrewer.com/user/7247-cocko/


----------



## Lawfo

Lawfo said:


> Medals were for point rangers of:
> 
> 90+ Bronze
> 105+ Silver
> 120+ Gold


I should have clarified, the above is the point range for where you score sits.

The actual, physical medals are only provided to the top 3 place getters of each category.


----------



## Kodos

Black n Tan said:


> I don't think so. Only place getters got medals.


This is correct. Actual medals go only to first, second and third place-getters. The points breakdown is more of a reflection of standards to help the judges award points etc.

The top three IPAs were all of gold medal standard, for example, but I don't believe the judges gave a "gold" score to any of the bitter ales.

It's not a universal thing, and I believe states vary a bit on how they award such ratings. My impression is it just helps keep the judges within a certain range across the comp.


----------



## spog

GrumpyPaul said:


> did you say "manage a twat"?


Manipulation sir,it's all about manipulation .


----------



## CmdrRyekr

Feedback sent? Wondering why my goop can didn't place!


----------



## Kodos

CmdrRyekr said:


> Feedback sent? Wondering why my goop can didn't place!


We've collated the 339x3 judging sheets and typed in all the addresses, just need to fill the envelopes and get them into the post. (And catch up on our day jobs). Hopefully will be in the post next week.


----------



## syl

Knocked out of placing on countback pants!!!!!


----------



## GrumpyPaul

syl said:


> Knocked out of placing on countback pants!!!!!


Which category is yours in syl?

I cant seen any of the 3rd and 4ths split on count back


----------



## syl

Ambers and dark lagers. Cal Common.


----------



## BungBrew

That category was pretty competitive! My dunkel I think came 5th


----------



## Lawfo

Brewers

Score sheets (and medals - if applicable) have just been mailed out.
Judges & Stewards – BJCP points have been allocated.
I don't visit AHB very often, so If you have any questions, please email me at: [email protected]

Brew Strong!
Lawfo


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Lawfo said:


> Brewers
> 
> Score sheets (and medals - if applicable) have just been mailed out.
> Judges & Stewards – BJCP points have been allocated.
> I don't visit AHB very often, so If you have any questions, please email me at: [email protected]
> 
> Brew Strong!
> Lawfo


Lawfo.

I am assuming you're one of the comp "officials" - can you confirm your earlier post about medals for gold, silver, bronze based on point ranges, or is it just first second and third as someone posted later?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

GrumpyPaul said:


> Lawfo.
> 
> I am assuming you're one of the comp "officials" - can you confirm your earlier post about medals for gold, silver, bronze based on point ranges, or is it just first second and third as someone posted later?


I'm not an AABC official (yes lawfo is) but what Kodos said earlier was true, AABC medals are awarded for first, second and third. In one category these three placegetters could all be 'gold range' beers, another category they could all be 'bronze range'.

So winners should just quote what makes them sound more successful to family and friends - I got a gold medal beer at nationals (cough I came fifth cough) - or - I came first at the nationals (cough with a bronze medal beer cough)


----------



## GrumpyPaul

I like your thinking MrNoTip.

I am a national sliver medal award winning brewer (cough) I came 6th (cough)


----------



## GrantSpatchcock

Got my feedback today, while not as good as I would have liked, there's lots of detailed feedback on how to fix things and get it up to scratch. Cheers for the quick turnaround!


----------



## waggastew

Mine arrived in the mid-north coast back blocks of NSW today complete with a pretty silver medal. Kids wanted to use it for dress up.....


----------



## DU99

wheres the next one


----------



## Crouch

DU99 said:


> wheres the next one


I think they said at ANHC it would be in Brisbane


----------



## bullsneck

AABC will be in Brisbane. The next conference (ANHC) is TBA.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Has any one esle not received their feedback sheets?

Mine are still yet to arrive


----------



## Black n Tan

I only received mine yesterday. The feedback was invaluable.


----------



## MartinOC

Yep! Got mine ('shame it took so long for the Vicbrew sheets to come out, but that's another story & up for discussion next Thursday....).

I agree with most (not all) of the comments/feedback, but always good to get subjective opinions on something reliant on subjective perceptions.

It's all good, even 'though I got beaten by 2 F*&%ing Baltic F*%$#ing Porters (dark lager) in an Ale category....mumble...grumble...grrr...humph....etc.....


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

MartinOC said:


> It's all good, even 'though I got beaten by 2 F*&%ing Baltic F*%$#ing Porters (dark lager) in an Ale category....mumble...grumble...grrr...humph....etc.....


I guess they Balticked the boxes, amiritie?


----------



## Lawfo

GrumpyPaul said:


> Has any one esle not received their feedback sheets?
> 
> Mine are still yet to arrive


I have 1 set of score sheets for a brewer who failed to provide a mailing address, email address & phone# on their entry form.

They did manage to put their name on the form, so when I get home, I'll check to see if it's you.

If it is, I'll scan & email them through to you.


----------



## MartinOC

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I guess they Balticked the boxes, amiritie?


Well, yes, there IS that...& I accept the current style allocations...

But I'm still pissed-off about Baltic's being in an ale category ('been arguing that one for years....), much as Kolsh is an ale, but lagered as part of it's process.


----------



## JasonP

MartinOC said:


> Well, yes, there IS that...& I accept the current style allocations...
> Its a porter category not an ale category. Nothing wrong with being beaten by a Baltic porter. Chances are they were fermented with ale yeast anyway.
> But I'm still pissed-off about Baltic's being in an ale category ('been arguing that one for years....), much as Kolsh is an ale, but lagered as part of it's process.


----------



## JasonP

Its a porter category not an ale category. Nothing wrong with being beaten by a Baltic.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

JasonP said:


> Its a porter category not an ale category. Nothing wrong with being beaten by a Baltic.


But at the end of the day a brown and robust porter are ales while a baltic is a lager.

Getting into nomenclature as much as stylistics but it's a valid point.


----------



## NewtownClown

Mr. No-Tip said:


> But at the end of the day a brown and robust porter are ales while a baltic is a lager.
> 
> Getting into nomenclature as much as stylistics but it's a valid point.


Can be fermented with a lager yeast or cold fermented with an ale yeast...


----------



## MartinOC

NewtownClown said:


> Can be cold fermented with an ale yeast...


Can be. May be. Historically & contemporaneously with lager yeasts, perhaps & almost certainly.

Currently (& in recent history) not.

It's a lager.


----------



## DU99

READ THIS scroll down


----------



## NewtownClown

BJCP Guidlines 12C list ale yeast as well as lager yeast. A does the AABC style guidlines
A Baltic Porter is a "...dark lager or ale", according to Zainashef in Brewing Classic Styles


----------



## Kodos

Just looking ahead to the 2015 nationals - I see the AABC website lists the competition as happening at "he weekend of 17-18th October at the Charming Squire Brewhouse in South Bank, Brisbane".

If the comp is running on a Saturday and Sunday, does that mean club night will be on a Sunday night? Or will there not be a club night this year? Just interested in finding out what's happening around the comp so I can plan travel accordingly.


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

The AABC website could do with updating the NSW qualifying comp too, it's not Castle Hill this year (ref: this thread).


----------



## clarkey7

Hi All,

The organising committee here in Brisbane have locked in key components of the AABC2015, but are still formulating the plan for events surrounding the main competition.

I can say that a club night is unlikely at this stage.

What is more likely is some kind of tasting tour of local venues that have sprung up in Brisbane over the last couple of years, but we are still working on a few ideas.

Stay tuned.

Cheers,

Dave Clarke
AABC2015 Chief Steward & Organiser


----------



## Black n Tan

No club night :angry: ...that is the best bit.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

That's really disappointing.


----------



## Kodos

Mr. No-Tip said:


> That's really disappointing.


Yes, I must admit it was the biggest draw card to coming and helping out. But I guess resources only go so far.

Qlders have always brought it strong on club night, I was looking forward to seeing what they did on their home turf.


----------



## Zeak

A celebration of amateur brewing, celebrated by a pub crawl?

Missing the mark I think….


----------



## Josh

Missing AABC by half a week. Family holiday to Gold Coast starting 22nd. Shame about club night, but a tasting tour sounds like a fair substitute.


----------



## donald_trub

Can I get some clarification on the rules for AABC? If I won a category at the states, that gives me an entry to the same category at the nationals.

Am I correct in this interpretation: I can enter the same category (eg Stout) and enter a max of 2 styles in this category, but not 2 of the same style?

So I should ideally be submitting 2 styles of stout? Eg an oatmeal and a sweet?


I'm then confused by this rule 'A maximum of three entries in any category will be accepted from each State/Territory'.

By 'entries' I take it they mean people, and not 3 beers from the one state? That wouldn't work out as there are 3 place getters per state, which would then mean we're only submitting one beer each.


----------



## tiprya

One winning beer gets you one entry to nationals - not two.

Yes you can enter a different beer in the same category if you really want to.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

I will leave the definitive answer to the organisers/experts - but heres my take on it.


donald_trub said:


> Can I get some clarification on the rules for AABC? If I won a category at the states, that gives me an entry to the same category at the nationals.
> 
> Am I correct in this interpretation: I can enter the same category (eg Stout) and enter a max of 2 styles in this category, but not 2 of the same style?
> 
> So I should ideally be submitting 2 styles of stout? Eg an oatmeal and a sweet?
> 
> 
> I'm then confused by this rule 'A maximum of three entries in any category will be accepted from each State/Territory'.
> 
> By 'entries' I take it they mean people, and not 3 beers from the one state? That wouldn't work out as there are 3 place getters per state, which would then mean we're only submitting one beer each.


Beers are "entries"
Brewers are "entrants"

If you placed in the states you get an entry into the same Category that you placed in. If you haven't got another bottle of the same beer to submit to the Nationals you can enter something else in the same category (but can be a different style).

You would only get to enter two styles ain the same category in the Nationals if you placed with two styles in the same category in the states.


----------



## MartinOC

GP is correct.

I'll add that if you "place" in the State & don't have another bottle of the same beer to submit for the Nationals, you can either re-brew the same beer for submission, or enter another beer in the same category. If you elect to do neither, then the opportunity to enter the Nationals goes to the 4th-place-getter in the State for that Category.

'Hope that clears things for you.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

That's almost exactly how I knew.
I placed 4th last year.
3rd placegetter couldn't get his entry in.
So I got called up as 4th place.
I didn't have a bottle of the same beer but had something else same category, but different style


----------



## Topher

I got my ribbon and score sheets back (thanks hub guys!!! Great feedback.) but no info about how to go about entering the nats. How does i do it?

Edit: splelling and, grammar.


----------



## Dazzbrew

Jump on the aabc web site for info and form.


----------



## nvs-brews

well after last year when i drank all my extra bottles and couldnt enter... looks like i may get something in this year!


----------



## Dazzbrew

Ha ha!


----------



## moodgett

Hi all, are the entries confirmed to be required 2 weeks before judging??


----------



## GrantSpatchcock

Gday all,

Doing up my entries tonight to send off tomorrow, and just wanted to confirm I'm not missing something. There's no actual bottle labels per se, so its leave the bottle unlabeled, rubber band the entry form and entry money, and send her in. No marking on the actual bottles?


----------



## Brewman_

I'm sending any NSW entries to the comp for free.

You just have to get them to me before or on 28 September.

Cheers Steve


----------



## Barry

Good Day Sydney Brewers
If you have entries to the nationals in Brisbane they can be dropped off at The Brew Shops and will be packaged on a mini skip and sent up.
The entries must be dropped off on or before the following dates
The Brew Shop Campbelltown Thursday 24th September (next Thursday)
The Brew Shop Nowra Thursday 24th September (next Thursday)
The Brew Shop Peakhurst Saturday 26th September (next Saturday)
The Brew Shop Kirrawee Saturday 26th September (next Saturday)
Entry forms etc. can be found at www.aabc.org.au
Hope this helps.


----------



## Topher

That helps amazingly Barry. Cheers.


----------



## kaiserben

I'm after some advice- I won NSW Specialty Beer category (18) with a Vanilla-spiced sweet stout. 

Technically the gravities are a bit high for the base, Sweet Stout style. And originally I was trying to get a stronger version of a sweet stout. My gravities are OG 1.071, FG 1.032 (Sweet Stout goes as high as 1.060 and 1.024).

Because we need to include gravity info in the national comp, is that something that can lose me points? Even though I'm entering the Specialty Beer category?


----------



## manticle

Don't worry about it.


----------



## Kodos

I don't think the judges ever get to see the gravity details. With specialties they only see the description.

Not sure why the forms include that stuff, maybe the idea was for data collection/analysis afterwards?


----------



## Parks

Judges definitely don't see the gravities or your yeast choice. TBH I'm not entirely sure if that data is collated anywhere or if it's simply always been on the entry form so it continues to be.


----------



## moodgett

Is anyone able to tell me how long the beers will remain out of refrigeration when they are recieved? Just my entry is still carbing


----------



## Parks

I don't know for sure but I would think they go straight into the coolroom on arrival. Contact the guys via the AABC website if you need them kept at room temp - they may accommodate you possibly.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Any chance you guys will be live tweeting the results/scores as the categories are judged?

I am sure there are plenty of folks around the country that would love to "tune in" as it happens


----------



## GalBrew

They did last year!


----------



## Mickcr250

Don't think it was tweeted as they were judged I think it was as they were announced at the dinner. I wasn't there though so I have no idea.


----------



## Kodos

I tweeted the results at the past two nationals, on behalf of the Canberra Brewers or ANHC accounts.

Once the results were in, and had been checked over by the comp sec, I extracted a text file from the result spreadsheet and edited it into a text doc with ready-made tweets (unfortunately I got the hashtag wrong in most of them last year! [emoji4])

This sort of happened while I was putting together the PowerPoint presentation for the awards night.

Then I copy and pasted each line into a Twitter client as they were announced - one or two might have been sent a fraction too early !! :whoops:

It is a pretty huge job, with not a lot of turn around, so I'd understand if this year's crew will have the capacity to repeat it. Since there's no club night this year, and judging winds up on a Sunday I don't know if there will be a presentation night event either.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Last year the tweets went out in sync with the dinner. 

If there's no club night, will there be an awards ceremony to sync with?


----------



## hockadays

What goes on through the day of the event, is it worth going to the venue for a beers while it's being judged? Do they announce the results of each category as its happening? So many questions...


----------



## Parks

Results haven't been announced at any comps I've judged until after it was all done and dusted.

You may find out some good scores by talking with fellow judges e.g., "Our table had a 47 point RIS which was absolutely outstanding", but not many judges will say much other than "we're getting some good/bad/etc beers so far" until it's finished.


----------



## Kodos

As Parks says, the results are usually checked over (to make sure scores have been added up correctly, entered into the spreadsheet, and that the beers named 1st, 2nd 3rd correlate with the scoresheets).

If there are enough stewards, sometimes this can be happening as the beers are judged, but nothing is final until after the flight is concluded. Judges can call beers back to adjust their scores as they see fit.


----------



## Kodos

hockadays said:


> What goes on through the day of the event, is it worth going to the venue for a beers while it's being judged? Do they announce the results of each category as its happening? So many questions...


If you can make it, contact the organisers - they may be able to use you as a steward or something.

It's entirely up to them how they run their comp, but they are rarely spectator events. Helpers are usually welcomed tho'.


----------



## Dazzbrew

Oh the anticipation! Cant wait for the results.


----------



## Womball

We finished judging around 3pm at the Charming Squire in Southbank, some great beers in my flight. Not sure where/when the results are being posted though.


----------



## antmandan

The results are in!

Dave asked me to post this on his behalf, so please don't shoot the messenger 

*Champion brewer*
Name, Pts, Entries, Places
1 Jeff McGrath [WA], 9, 4, 3 x 1st, 0 x 2nd, 0 x 3rd 
2 Kevin Hingston [ACT], 8, 5, 1 x 1st, 2 x 2nd, 1 x 3rd
=3 Paul Moseley [WA], 6, 2, 2 x 1st, 0 x 2nd, 0 x 3rd
=3 Nathan Semmens [QLD], 6, 10, 2 x 1st, 0 x 2nd, 0 x 3rd
=3 Steve Hogarth [ACT], 6, 3, 2 x 1st, 0 x 2nd, 0 x 3rd

*Champion state*
Place,State,Pts,Entries
1,WA,30,47
2,ACT,27,60
3,NSW,19,54
4,SA,13,52
5,QLD,11,60
6,Vic,5,49
7,Tas,3,20

See the HTML files for the full results.

Well done to everyone who entered beers, we certainly enjoyed judging them. Thanks to our interstate judges, and the local organising committee for a very smoothly run competition. 

View attachment Australian Amateur Brewing Championship 2015 - Awards Summary.html


View attachment Australian Amateur Brewing Championship 2015 - Results By Style.html


View attachment champion_brewer.txt


View attachment champion_state.txt


----------



## winkle

At least Victoria didn't win


----------



## MartinOC

winkle said:


> At least Victoria didn't win


Next year, mate (perhaps...). I haven't fired-up the brewery in anger yet (after 10 years off...)


----------



## Moad

Congrats to Darren from HUB, the dark ale takes 1st place once again... congrats to everyone who entered and thanks to the organisers, judges and stewards for turning the results around so quick!


----------



## brewn00b

Cheers for getting results up so quick.


----------



## Dazzbrew

Thanks for posting antmandan, thanks to all of the organisers, judges, stewards and venue.
Wooh Hoo!!!!! :beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang: Dazz's Dark Ale (Australian Dark Ale) has just taken it's 3rd win from the 3 comps it as been entered into, thanks very much Nick for your'e kind words, i still can't quite believe it, i'm keen to try your porter too mate. I've just poured myself one and there may be a few more to follow tonight :chug:


----------



## MartinOC

'Feels good to get a National Gong, eh? :icon_cheers:


----------



## Dazzbrew

Fudge yeah!


----------



## brewn00b

Congrats Dazz!


----------



## biggo

WA for the Win :super: :kooi:


----------



## Moad

Enjoy Daz!

Thanks for sending entries off too Steve (Brewman).


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Thanks for the quick results!

Congrats to my man Jeff. Well deserved and welcome to the club 

Good showing from all the Canberra guys. Next year!


----------



## christopher.whitten

4 out of 17 beers scored under 20 at a national comp in the low alcohol category. Beers couldn't have been that bad! Well done Brettles on your Kolsch and Pils!


----------



## MartinOC

Anyone that gets a Gong in low alcohol category (State or National level) is a great brewer. No doubt about it.


----------



## andyth

Thanks to the nationals organizers and everyone that made this possible. Congrats to my friend Jeff McGrath!


----------



## Mashhead

Grats to the winners. So close again ACT...


----------



## timmi9191

My entry doesnt appear. Who do I need to contact?


----------



## Grainer

Stoked with a 40.5 3rd Place in the Specialty with a American Bourbon Oaked Russian Imperial Stout and a 5th with 30.5 with a Baltic Porter.. Booyeah :super:


----------



## antmandan

timmi9191 said:


> My entry doesnt appear. Who do I need to contact?


Have you looked at both of the html files? One only lists the top 3 so make sure you check the full list. If it isn't in there speak to your state delegates as they are who Dave has been liaising with.


----------



## mofox1

Woohoo! Best ESB!

Okay, okay... 5th place bitter ale, but stoked as. 

Thanks to the Melbourne Brewers* fellas organising the bottle deliveries.

Ed: * Corrected thanks...


----------



## timmi9191

antmandan said:


> Have you looked at both of the html files? One only lists the top 3 so make sure you check the full list. If it isn't in there speak to your state delegates as they are who Dave has been liaising with.


yes, im looking at the full list and its not there.


----------



## mxd

timmi9191 said:


> yes, im looking at the full list and its not there.


2 of mine aren't there either a german pil and american barley wine. the other 2 are ? not sure what may have happened ?


----------



## m_peve

Thanks to the organisers. A lot of hard and under-appreciated work done.

Congrats to everyone for getting to the nationals. Super stoked with my result


----------



## antmandan

mxd said:


> 2 of mine aren't there either a german pil and american barley wine. the other 2 are ? not sure what may have happened ?





timmi9191 said:


> yes, im looking at the full list and its not there.


One of the Victorian boxes went missing in transit, as in it never turned up at Craftbrewer. I believe that Dave had been making loads of frantic emails and phonecalls with your delegates, and AusPost to try to work it out. timmi919 I'm guessing yours was a Common Cider? And Matt I can see your name in the list of missing beers as well. I think the entries were split for postage which is why some of your beers arrived and those that were in the missing box are the ones you can't see on the list.

It's such a shame that this sometimes happens, I'm sure there were some great beers in that bunch


----------



## Edgebrew

What the hell. My cider is not there! What.... There was a box that went missing from vic? Is my entry part of the missing shipment? I dropped my entry at Melbourne Brewers club night.


----------



## stevemc32

Well done fellas. Didn't get a place but look forward to seeing the feedback.


----------



## Kodos

Well done organisers on such a quick turnaround, and thanks all for your efforts.

Well done Mr No-Tip, third nationals weizen gold in a row, and 2nd place champion brewer. Marvellous effort that!


----------



## mxd

antmandan said:


> One of the Victorian boxes went missing in transit, as in it never turned up at Craftbrewer. I believe that Dave had been making loads of frantic emails and phonecalls with your delegates, and AusPost to try to work it out. timmi919 I'm guessing yours was a Common Cider? And Matt I can see your name in the list of missing beers as well. I think the entries were split for postage which is why some of your beers arrived and those that were in the missing box are the ones you can't see on the list.
> 
> It's such a shame that this sometimes happens, I'm sure there were some great beers in that bunch


thanks for the update

bloody aus post


----------



## Yob

Sack Aus Post, 

E-go couriers FTW


----------



## Mardoo

gotta agree. as long as you insure e-go have been flawless for me so far, 40 shipments or so.


----------



## donald_trub

Well done to all and to the organisers. Happy with a 2nd place!


----------



## clarkey7

Congrats to all the winners and especially WA who have taken our Champion State for the first time !!
Well done guys. I'm pretty disappointed with how QLD went, but am rapt that you guys took it out.

Thank you to all my amazing helpers - Organisers, Judges and Stewards and special thanks to all the guys who traveled from Interstate or afar to assist us to run the AABC for the first time here in QLD. We had ACT, VIC, NSW and of course QLD judges.

Clarification on a few items.
Firstly, we postponed our registration date because 50 or so entries that we were expecting still hadn't arrived in Brisbane by the competition closing date of 2nd October.
Following registration on 10th October, we still didn't have a few parcels (25 or so beers). We were tracking some on AUSPOST.
I waited till the last minute on Thursday October 15 to register the stragglers. We moved the beers to the venue on Friday October 16.
Comp was run on October 17. The final wash up for the entries that didn't make it into the AABC was 8 beers from VIC in one package still hadn't arrived, 1 beer arrived but was empty, one beer exploded in a 1 degree coldrooom and one was broken en route to the venue. I have sent details and photos to your delegates and have been in constant contact with them regarding these entries. We did our best to include everyone's entries and run a fair competition. I believe we achieved this.

The Champion beer went to a countback as per the AABC listed rules and was checked by delegates before releasing results. Both beers were crackers !

We will now start the large job of posting your scoresheets and medals to you as soon as we take a breath.

Cheers,

Dave Clarke
Organiser/Chief Steward & Fridge Monkey for AABC 2015


----------



## beachy

Thanks to all the volunteers who ran the event and for the fast posting of results.

Congratulations to all the brewers who placed and WA for winning the overall best state.

I am very happy with a 1st and 2nd from 5 entries.

To those that did not place it is still a great effort to qualify for the nationals and all of the beers would have been good examples of style when they placed at state level.


----------



## Weizguy

antmandan said:


> One of the Victorian boxes went missing in transit, as in it never turned up at Craftbrewer. I believe that Dave had been making loads of frantic emails and phonecalls with your delegates, and AusPost to try to work it out. timmi919 I'm guessing yours was a Common Cider? And Matt I can see your name in the list of missing beers as well. I think the entries were split for postage which is why some of your beers arrived and those that were in the missing box are the ones you can't see on the list.
> 
> It's such a shame that this sometimes happens, I'm sure there were some great beers in that bunch


FWIW, I participated in the NSW Comp help at Bathurst, years ago, and although my prize arrived in the mail, the judging sheets never turned up.

Seems that some crafty bastards (employees) at Aus Post are still happy to liberate goods at will.

I received a postcard from Aus Post some time later advising that some of my mail was identified as having been stolen internally, and they were taking it seriously, and an investigation was taking place. No follow up was received by me. Strange!


----------



## Blind Dog

Fairly peed off - how the F*** does a beer that scores over 40 at States score 13 at the Nationals? Interested in receiving feedback as its still tasting great form the keg; guessing infected bottle which is really annoying as the others I bottled at the same time for a mate are fine.

Mild ale was also presumably in the missing case from Vic as it has no score...

Rant over and congrats to the winners; thanks to judges, organisers, stewards and all


----------



## Weizguy

Blind Dog said:


> Fairly peed off - how the F*** does a beer that scores over 40 at States score 13 at the Nationals? Interested in receiving feedback as its still tasting great form the keg; guessing infected bottle which is really annoying as the others I bottled at the same time for a mate are fine.
> 
> Mild ale was also presumably in the missing case from Vic as it has no score...
> 
> Rant over and congrats to the winners; thanks to judges, organisers, stewards and all


Sounds like a 'courtesy score' which normally indicates something quite wrong.

I have judged at a couple of Nats, and have wondered how some of the beers did well enough to qualify in their States. Seems that some beers do not age and/or travel well, as I cannot believe the original beer was so underperforming.

Congrats to all qualifiers!


----------



## jlmcgrath

Huge thanks to all the organizers, judges and stewards for donating their time to make the state and national comps run smoothly.

Well done WA brewers. The beers around here are getting better every year. 

Super stoked with champ brewer. 

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## Grainer

jlmcgrath said:


> Huge thanks to all the organizers, judges and stewards for donating their time to make the state and national comps run smoothly.
> 
> Well done WA brewers. The beers around here are getting better every year.
> 
> Super stoked with champ brewer.
> 
> Thanks again everyone!


Recipes to follow?


----------



## bconnery

It was enjoyable day of judging, congratulations to all the winners and placers, and indeed anyone who got a beer to the AABC has made a cracking beer along the line, even if something did happen by the time it got to the Nats. 
I got to judge the farmhouse category and the first place beer was particularly tasty. 
Can I ask for a bribe after the fact? I'll take a bottle, Steve Hogarth, if you are on here...


----------



## jlmcgrath

Grainer said:


> Recipes to follow?


 I would be happy to post the recipes. Give me a few days and I will try to get them up.


----------



## Dan Pratt

jlmcgrath said:


> I would be happy to post the recipes. Give me a few days and I will try to get them up.


Well done Mr Mcgrath! Congrats on the achievement.

Not to downplay the recipes but personally I'd be more interested in techniques rather than recipes.

Things like;

Chill or no chill
Water adjustments ppm and pH
Liquid or dry yeast
Pitching cool or pitching warm
Oxygen usage
Packaging with drops or bulk prime

What does the champ do?


----------



## MartinOC

Pratty1 said:


> What does the champ do?


Give us the lot.. as in "kill 'em all & let God sort 'em out" kinda sorta thing....


----------



## jlmcgrath

Sure thing. I will post it all tonight


----------



## jlmcgrath

Hey boys and girls,

Quick run down of my process with recipes at the end.

I Biab in a 70L gas fired kettle. Usually do double batches unless its something bigger than about 6%.

I mash in 50L of water and then top up post boil if doing a double or all the water goes in at the start for single batches. 

Last Perth water report looked like:
Ca- 20
Sulfate- 8
Chloride- 34
Magnesium- 2
Sodium- 22
Bicarbonate- 64
Total Hardeness- 58
RA- 37

I add some gypsum to almost everything I make to increase the calcium. If its something hoppy, I shoot for 250-300ppm sulfate. Pretty much the same as what Tasty from the BN does for his hoppy beers. Gypsum goes into the mash. 

Pale beers generally need a few ml of 88% lactic acid to hit a mash pH of 5.2. Dark beers usually hit 5.2 without adjustment. Really dark beers like the RIS will have the darkest grains (roasted barley, black malt) held out of the mash and then added at mash out to help keep the pH in the right spot.

I whirlpool and let settle for ~20 min before chilling through a cfc. Run wort into 2 better bottles with a foil cover. Wort goes into a pre-chilled fridge until down to pitching temp. Generally 18C for something like 1056/ US-05. 

Depending on how organized I am, I will use liquid if I have enough time to build up the right pitch, or use dry yeast. Dry yeast gets rehydrated.

I pitch, then add pure O2 using the benzenomatic cylinders. Bottle, reg, sterile filter, stainlees tube, 2um stone. The stainless tubing works really well, instead of having the hose trying to curl up. One thing I would like to add is a flow meter. Im cracking the reg until I see bubbles then start the timer for 60 seconds. Big beers get another 30 sec dose 12 hours later. Thinking I will upgrade to the tradeflame bottle in the near future.

Ferment for a few days @18 then let beer free rise to 20 to help finish out.

Once FG is reached, I cold crash for a few days. If I'm dry hopping, I will add hops (loose) to another better bottle, purge the shit out of it with CO2, then rack across. I dry hop at ferment temp.

Pretty much everything with the exception of big beers 9%+, sours, and belgians get kegged. I noticed a huge improvement in my hoppy beers after I started kegging. Being able to purge your kegs with CO2 and keeping them cold while carbonating makes a huge difference in my mind.

When I do bottle, I purge, rack to my bottling bucket, note the volume, work out the sugar addition (table sugar) with a calculator, dissolve sugar in a small amount of just boiled water, cool a bit, pour into bucket and gently stir. 
Beers that go into comps that have been kegged get filled using a Blichmann beer gun. Once you get comfortable in your process, its really easy to use.

Now for the recipes.

IIPA
Recipe based of Pliny The Elder with some hop substitutions.

OG- 1.074
FG- 1.011
IBU- 241 (calculated)
ABV- 8.3%

21L batch @ 65% efficiency
90 min boil

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
18.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash) 
6.432 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Simpsons) 87.0 % 
0.296 kg Caramel Pils (BestMÃlz) 4.0 % 
0.296 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) 4.0 % 
100.00 g Columbus (2014) [13.80 %] - Boil 90.0 min 151.3 IBUs 
21.00 g Columbus (2014) [13.80 %] - Boil 55.0 min 30.8 IBUs 
28.00 g Experimental Pine Fruit [17.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min 27.7 IBUs 
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 - 
71.00 g Experimental Pine Fruit [17.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 26.9 IBUs 
28.00 g Centennial (2014) [8.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 5.0 IBUs 
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 11 - 
0.370 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) 5.0 % 
40.00 g Centennial (2014) [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 12. 0.0 IBUs 
40.00 g Columbus (2014) [13.80 %] - Dry Hop 12 0.0 IBUs 
40.00 g Experimental Pinefruit (2014) [17.70 %] - Dry Hop 12 0.0 IBUs 
40.00 g Centennial (2014) [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 8.0 0.0 IBUs 
40.00 g Columbus (2014) [13.80 %] - Dry Hop 8.0 0.0 IBUs 
40.00 g Experimental Pine Fruit [17.00 %] - Dry Hop 8.0 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Centennial (2014) [8.30 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Columbus (2014) [13.80 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Experimental Pine Fruit [17.00 %] - Dry Hop 4.0 0.0 IBUs 

Mash @ 65C

Pitch @ 18, O2, rise to 20C after 4 days.


RIS

Could probably be simplified a bit, but pretty happy with this recipe. Same beer won first at National last year as well. Same batch. Has been kept in the fridge so I think that helped.

OG- 1.098
FG- 1.021
IBU- 94 (calculated)
ABV- 10.3%

21L batch @ 65% efficiency
60 min boil


Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
6.80 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash) 
0.90 g Calcium Chloride (Mash)
8.593 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) 71.5 % 
0.589 kg Chocolate (Bairds) 4.9 % 
0.481 kg Dark Crystal (Bairds) 4.0 % 
0.481 kg Rye, Flaked (Swansea St. Market) 4.0 % 
0.481 kg Wheat, Flaked 4.0 % 
0.337 kg Black Malt (Bairds) 2.8 % 
0.324 kg Special B (Cara 400) 2.7 % 
0.252 kg Pale Chocolate (Thomas Fawcett) 2.1 % 
0.240 kg Carafa Special II (Weyermann) 2.0 % 
0.240 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) 2.0 % 
61.00 g Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 62.8 IBUs 
40.00 g Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 21.0 IBUs 
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 
26.00 g Centennial [9.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5.9 IBUs 
26.00 g Centennial [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 3.7 IBUs 
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) 

Mash @ 68C

Pitch @ 18, O2 60 sec, 30sec O2 12 hours later, rise to 20C after 4 days.


Imperial English Barleywine.

This beer was a bit of a wild card. Brewed it with a mate of mine. Made for a really really long brew day on a sunny 40C afternoon.

Craziest beer I have ever made. It was so damn viscous, the hops wouldn't settle. Hop bags would have been a wise choice. To get a gravity, I brought a sample to the lab, vacuum filtered it and diluted it 3x. Gravity came in at 1.053.

It also pretty much refuses to carbonate. I had it cold and at 20psi for like 2 months and it still only like 1.5 volumes.

Drinks kind of like a port, or a Sam Adams Utopias with less booze and wood character.

OG- 1.159
FG- 1.037
IBU- 96 (calculated)
ABV- about 15.5%

21L batch @ 50% efficiency
240 min boil

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
17.350 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter 84.8 % 
0.180 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 0.9 % 
0.180 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) 0.9 % 
0.180 kg Carared (Weyermann) 0.9 % 
0.180 kg Special Roast (Briess) 0.9 % 
2.400 kg Light Dry Extract (15.76 EBC) 11.7 % 
63.00 g Super Alpha [11.20 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 46.2 IBUs 
44.00 g Magnum [14.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 41.7 IBUs 
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 - 
96.00 g Goldings, East Kent [6.40 %] - Boil 10.0 8.0 IBUs 
49.00 g Goldings, East Kent [6.40 %] - Boil 0.0 0.0 IBUs 
3.0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [25.10 m Yeast 12 - 
1.0 pkg Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP0 Yeast 14 - 

Double decoction.
63C, 70C, 75 mashout

Pitched @ 16C and held for 3 days. Was down to about 1.070 when we added the super high gravity starter. Finished at 1.045 and wouldn't budge from there. It was too sweet at this point. We each made a small (5L) batch of dry mead. Racked mead to keg and transferred about 8L of IBW to each of our kegs. I added 40g of American Oak cubes to my keg. Dropped the FG to 1.037 while keeping the alcohol up.


If I missed anything, let me know. Happy to answer any questions I can.


----------



## Mardoo

Thanks for the detail as well as the recipes, of course. That's awesome!


----------



## Killer Brew

Holy crap! IIPA 241 IBU's. Is that even a thing? I have a lot to learn.

RIS at 94 IBU's is still huge too. Don't think I have ever gone over 60.

BTW congrats on the win and thanks for providing an insight into your processes.


----------



## MartinOC

BRILLIANT! Just BRILLIANT!

Thanks for freely sharing everything.

Gotta love homebrewers. Lovely bunch...


----------



## winkle

Thanks to Dan, Clarkie etc for running two quality events (QABC & AABC) in a short time frame. Well organised, with the judges well looked after so everything went smoothly. Thanks should go to the Charming Squire for hosting us as well.

jimcgrath, thats gold mate, ta.


----------



## jlmcgrath

Killer Brew said:


> Holy crap! IIPA 241 IBU's. Is that even a thing? I have a lot to learn.
> 
> RIS at 94 IBU's is still huge too. Don't think I have ever gone over 60.
> 
> BTW congrats on the win and thanks for providing an insight into your processes.


Thanks Killer Brew, I'm pretty damn stoked!

From what I understand, actually getting more than about 90 ibu is near impossible due to the alpha acids becoming insoluble at those levels because of saturation. At that point you are just adding oils. Hop utilization at higher gravities is also reduced. Beer didn't taste crazy bitter. It makes a great IIPA, give it a shot.

Same with the RIS. It's also 2 years old at this point so some of the IBUs have dropped out.


----------



## kaiserben

jlmcgrath said:


> From what I understand, actually getting more than about 90 ibu is near impossible due to the alpha acids becoming insoluble at those levels because of saturation. At that point you are just adding oils. Hop utilization at higher gravities is also reduced.


Does that mean that you could drastically reduce the early bittering additions until the total theoretical IBUs was just a bit above 90 (let's say 100) and still get pretty much the same result? Or is there a good reason for including big early boil additions?


----------



## Danwood

jlmcgrath said:


> If I missed anything, let me know.


$&@@ ! It shits me when brewers get all cagey and secretive !

How about, what was the barometric pressures and sock choice on the brew days in question ? Faaark ! 

You deserve your award, well done.


----------



## jlmcgrath

Danwood said:
 

> $&@@ ! It shits me when brewers get all cagey and secretive !
> 
> How about, what was the barometric pressures and sock choice on the brew days in question ? Faaark !
> 
> You deserve your award, well done.


Thanks mate, thats very kind of you.

Checking my notes, the BP was 12, 17 and 6 and socks were black black/blue and sandals.


----------



## MartinOC

jlmcgrath said:


> Thanks mate, thats very kind of you.
> 
> Checking my notes, the BP was 12, 17 and 6 and socks were black black/blue and sandals.


Socks with sandals?? Now that's just plain WRONG! I tend to brew with wellies-on because of the mess I make (& I'm often cleaning stuff during brew-day).

Do you feel that donning correct/appropriate footwear during brewing influences the overall outcome? 

Edit: What about underwear? Do you reckon that wearing red silk boxers or going Commando with shorts has any bearing on your overall success at National level?? h34r:


----------



## jlmcgrath

MartinOC said:


> Socks with sandals??


Naw mate, just sandals. I have very little fashion sense and even I know that is unacceptable.


----------



## PhilR

Any idea when score sheets might come through?


----------



## HBHB

jlmcgrath said:


> Imperial English Barleywine.
> 
> This beer was a bit of a wild card. Brewed it with a mate of mine. Made for a really really long brew day on a sunny 40C afternoon.
> 
> Craziest beer I have ever made. It was so damn viscous, the hops wouldn't settle. Hop bags would have been a wise choice. To get a gravity, I brought a sample to the lab, vacuum filtered it and diluted it 3x. Gravity came in at 1.053.
> 
> It also pretty much refuses to carbonate. I had it cold and at 20psi for like 2 months and it still only like 1.5 volumes.
> 
> Drinks kind of like a port, or a Sam Adams Utopias with less booze and wood character.
> 
> OG- 1.159
> FG- 1.037
> IBU- 96 (calculated)
> ABV- about 15.5%
> 
> 21L batch @ 50% efficiency
> 240 min boil
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amt Name Type # %/IBU
> 17.350 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter 84.8 %
> 0.180 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 0.9 %
> 0.180 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) 0.9 %
> 0.180 kg Carared (Weyermann) 0.9 %
> 0.180 kg Special Roast (Briess) 0.9 %
> 2.400 kg Light Dry Extract (15.76 EBC) 11.7 %
> 63.00 g Super Alpha [11.20 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 46.2 IBUs
> 44.00 g Magnum [14.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 41.7 IBUs
> 1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -
> 96.00 g Goldings, East Kent [6.40 %] - Boil 10.0 8.0 IBUs
> 49.00 g Goldings, East Kent [6.40 %] - Boil 0.0 0.0 IBUs
> 3.0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [25.10 m Yeast 12 -
> 1.0 pkg Super High Gravity Ale (White Labs #WLP0 Yeast 14 -
> 
> Double decoction.
> 63C, 70C, 75 mashout
> 
> Pitched @ 16C and held for 3 days. Was down to about 1.070 when we added the super high gravity starter. Finished at 1.045 and wouldn't budge from there. It was too sweet at this point. We each made a small (5L) batch of dry mead. Racked mead to keg and transferred about 8L of IBW to each of our kegs. I added 40g of American Oak cubes to my keg. Dropped the FG to 1.037 while keeping the alcohol up.
> 
> 
> If I missed anything, let me know. Happy to answer any questions I can.


Despite all the issues you had with it, it was absolutely stunning......like, damn it was good.


----------



## DU99

gee who has a lab


----------



## MartinOC

DU99 said:


> gee who has a lab


I've got a manky, dust-filled kitchen in a shed & still manage to make good beer. Does that count?


----------



## TheWiggman

MartinOC said:


> Edit: What about underwear? Do you reckon that wearing red silk boxers or going Commando with shorts has any bearing on your overall success at National level?? h34r:


 I thought it was common knowledge that good brewers don't require pants. That's my chosen technique to get 'the edge' anyhoo.


----------



## Topher

The iipa has over 500g of hops!


----------



## MartinOC

TheWiggman said:


> I thought it was common knowledge that good brewers don't require pants. That's my chosen technique to get 'the edge' anyhoo.


Yeah, well...I actually used to BE a Commando & did some of my best work in the dark with no underwear...

Don't get me started on the SNAKE parties (*S*oldiers *N*aked *A*gainst *K*angaroo *E*xercises). The Commander SF was completely un-fazed standing around talking quite frankly about any issue, surrounded by blokes in the buff, wearing nothing but life-preservers in 40C heat...

I think it's a moot point what you wear whilst brewing, as long as you do it well. N'est pas?


----------



## Dazzbrew

Any ideas of when the results will start going out? Not whingeing just asking.


----------



## jlmcgrath

DU99 said:


> gee who has a lab


Guess I'm luck in that aspect. I work in a mineral processing/chemistry lab. No good for anything you would put in your mouth with all the cyanide bottle rolls going on but worked well enough for what I was doing.


----------



## jlmcgrath

Anyone planning on heading to Adelaide next year for ANHC? I will def be there, and it would be great to sink a few pints with you guys/gals.


----------



## Grainer

Depends.. If i can win a comp  then it would be worthwhile.. better start brewing :kooi: December is Big Brew days .. Stouts/RIS etc.. fingers crossed...


----------



## donald_trub

Any ideas when scoresheets will be sent out?


----------



## clarkey7

Dazzbrew said:


> Any ideas of when the results will start going out? Not whingeing just asking.


The scoresheets are already packed into addressed envelopes. We were waiting for the AABC logo to get added to the medals (1st, 2nd and 3rd).
This has happened now, so everything will be sent this week.
I'll email the state delegates and post here to confirm once everything is away.


----------



## clarkey7

Hi All,

All the envelopes were sent on Wednesday.

Scoresheets and medals are on their way to you now.

Congrats to all the winners (especially WA) and thank you to all who assisted us running the AABC here in Brisbane,

Cheers,

Dave


----------



## Dazzbrew

Woohoo, looking forward to it thanks Dave.


----------



## mofox1

Got my scoresheets in the mail y'day. Very happy bloke, good feedback and know where to improve.

Wouldn't have thought my first comp beers would get this far 

Thanks to all the judges, stewards, runners, designated drivers and anyone else that contributed in any way.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

Got mine too. Good constructive feedback..

Ditto on the thanks


----------



## Dazzbrew

My medal and sheets arrived today just In time for the HUB meeting in Friday, woo hoo!
My grain order arrived from Brewman today too, woo hoo again.


----------



## Andy_Chil

Got my sheets and medal yesterday. Great feedback. Thank you so much to all involved. 
I was so excited to take home a 1st at Vicbrew and 2nd at AABC for my first ever comp entry!!


----------



## bigmacthepunker

Great work, Andy.


----------



## jlmcgrath

Sounds like everyone in Perth has gotten their scoresheets and medals. Hoping mine didn't get lost in the mail somewhere.


----------



## Grainer

Yours had to go via special courier due to the weight .. lol


----------



## jlmcgrath

Grainer said:


> Yours had to go via special courier due to the weight .. lol


Haha, I hope thats the case.


----------



## clarkey7

jlmcgrath said:


> Haha, I hope thats the case.


it just might be


----------



## jlmcgrath

Pocket Beers said:


> it just might be


Pocket Beers, who are you and what do you know?


----------



## clarkey7

jlmcgrath said:


> Pocket Beers, who are you and what do you know?


Chief Steward and did you get your stuff yet??


----------



## jlmcgrath

Hey Pocket,

Everything showed up last week. Amazing how you guys were able to cram that conical into such a small package.


----------



## Bribie G

I note that on the AABC site for 2016 (Adelaide) there isn't yet a link to the BJCP style guides.

Are these still going to be the 2008 or the new 2015 set?


----------



## Parks

Pretty sure it'll be 2015 Bribie which was the reasoning in using those for BABBs this year.


----------



## Bribie G

Thanks, I'm assuming therefore that the State competitions that feed into the Nats would therefore have to use 2015 as well.

Quite a few styles have moved around somewhat - as one example Dortmunder Export no longer exits as such, is now German Helles Exportbier, and has been moved from Light Lagers to Light Bitter Euro beers.

So plan of attack pretty much hinges on aiming for a placing in a particular category to qualify for entering the same category in the Nats.

State / Nats categories would have to line up the same to allow for smooth "flow through" of competitors.

Particularly important to lager brewers who should be brewing right now B)


----------



## NealK

Would be interesting to know if this is true. Vicbrew have announced some changes for 2016 but not a change in the categories.


----------



## Black n Tan

It is far from clear which guidelines will be used. The VicBrew and AABC website do not have any information. However I note that SA state they are not using the BJCP 2015 guidelines for the state competition. I have send a query to VicBrew and will post a response when received.


----------



## Yob

wouldn't you just have to know which cat is is for which comp?

they wont necessarily have to be aligned, youll just need to know the difference.


----------



## RdeVjun

More or less Yob, though as I understand it that would be provided the brewer's number of entries in a category doesn't exceed that which is allowed.
I too would rather some clear advice from the state comps.
Having said that, like Bribie some time ago I perused the 2015 guidelines with a view to tailoring my entries. But in the end because there were those changes in 2015 lagers and the mapping wasn't obvious I figured I would have to wing it and just hope that when the comps decided which edition would float that I would be able to slot all my entries in, regardless of whether it was 2015 or not. Not ideal really, that's all I can do though, it's a bit first worldish but even so...


----------



## Yob

Wouldn't that mean they have to talk to each other?

Now you're asking some REAL shit...


----------



## GalBrew

It's going to be a brave state that goes to 2015 guidelines before AABC does.


----------



## Bribie G

Yes there could be some nasty gotchas. For example I'd be really pissed off if I'd brewed an American Pale Ale and an American Amber Ale with my eye on the National Competition, where they are in two different categories in the #2015.

Then after brewing my beers I discover that the State Comp was running on the #2008 where these two beers are in the same category.

Then somebody whacks out my Amber with an APA which I wouldn't regard as a fair outcome.

However that niggle aside, more fundamentally, if the State rules state that I can only enter two styles per category then what am I going to do with the American Brown Ale that I was hoping would make it to the Nats?

Under #2008 that would be barred from the State Comp as I would already have filled my quota, but not under #2015.

Edit: in other words I wouldn't have devoted time and money to brewing the American Brown, knowing that it wasn't eligible to be brewed under State rules.

That's why it would be good to know what's happening as brewing season is upon us.


----------



## RdeVjun

Got it in one Bribie, that's pretty much the scenario which I was thinking about.


----------



## Black n Tan

I agree that it avoids problems if the state and AABC are aligned. However remember that the AABC doesn't adopt the BJCP styles and categories as a whole. They pick and chose their styles and arrange the categories such that they are manageable from a competition perspective. So the AABC 2012 adopted many of the BJCP 2008 styles but the AABC had 18 categories whilst the BJCP had 23 categories.


----------



## Bribie G

Yes of course there are special circumstances such as Australian light / standard / premium lagers etc, and I see that there is now a Commonwealth beers category including Australian Pale Ales, no doubt there due to the tireless efforts of our own research machine Korev. (ed: Peter's listed in the credits at the front of the 2015 guide)

Point I'm making is that it would be really good at this time of the brewing year for the State and Nats websites to announce what guidelines they are actually going to be judging on, so we can sharpen our urns and roger our grainfathers (that could be ugly) h34r:

Even if it's just a case, at the moment to say "same as last year" so there's a point of ref.


----------



## Black n Tan

Bribie, were are in fierce agreement. Hopefully we'll know soon as I have a brewing schedule based on last years categories.


----------



## wally

Bribie G said:


> Yes of course there are special circumstances such as Australian light / standard / premium lagers etc, and I see that there is now a Commonwealth beers category including Australian Pale Ales, no doubt there due to the tireless efforts of our own research machine Korev. (ed: Peter's listed in the credits at the front of the 2015 guide)
> 
> Point I'm making is that it would be really good at this time of the brewing year for the State and Nats websites to announce what guidelines they are actually going to be judging on, so we can sharpen our urns and roger our grainfathers (that could be ugly) h34r:
> 
> Even if it's just a case, at the moment to say "same as last year" so there's a point of ref.


Bribie,

This is from the SABSOSA website re the 2016 gudelines.


----------



## Bribie G

Thanks, Wally, so pretty much #2008 with the usual Aussie styles worked into it.


----------



## Bribie G

OK on checking around (that I should have done in the first place) I see that QLD isn't going with #2015 either - same for Vic.


----------



## Kodos

It would seem highly unlikely (to me) the AABC would take on BJCP 2015 guidelines and categories as they are. The U.S. Competition (NHC) is using the new styles but categories similar to the 2008 groupings.

I would expect the AABC to keep mostly the same categories, but update the styles accordingly (with a select few new styles added).

But I would hope the changes are announced at this year's AABC for implementation next year. There are a few subtle (but IMHO worthwhile) changes to some styles that judges and Brewers should have time to adjust to.


----------



## Headmeister

G'day all,

I notice the links to app forms are not live here: http://www.aabc.org.au/ 

How soon before the event are entries usually submitted? 

I'm guessing early Oct?


----------



## earle

To enter the AABC you need to place at a state level comp which are generally happening about now. If you place at a state level comp they will usually then provide you with more info about entering the AABC.


----------



## Headmeister

Ok thanks earle, 

I did place in the NSW comp so will look out for details 

Cheers


----------



## Stu Brew

Has anyone got info on what scoring system is used in SA? Not complaining at all about my results at all, im just interested in reading a bit more about the system they use for future reference! 

Cheers


----------



## Killer Brew

Stu Brew said:


> Has anyone got info on what scoring system is used in SA? Not complaining at all about my results at all, im just interested in reading a bit more about the system they use for future reference!
> 
> Cheers


I helped out with some judging. Your sheets should be available via Compmaster now. Usual scoring system as I know it, out of 50. There were 3 judges per category so you will have a total out of 150.


----------



## Stu Brew

Killer Brew said:


> I helped out with some judging. Your sheets should be available via Compmaster now. Usual scoring system as I know it, out of 50. There were 3 judges per category so you will have a total out of 150.


ah makes sense!! Thanks ill have a look. Who ever got to drink that columbus harvest ale should think of themselves as rather lucky....I almost kept it!!


----------



## Killer Brew

Not me unfortunately, I was doing darks. What did it score?


----------



## Stu Brew

Killer Brew said:


> Not me unfortunately, I was doing darks. What did it score?


100 on the harvest cause I put into specialty other....noob mistake. Still guessing what the secondary bottles will do compared to the brite kegs which dont last all that long! 

My APA with Idaho 7, Super Alpha and Pacific Jade. That got 10th with 107 but same score as 9th in APA so joint 9th? I was hoping for a top ten so im pretty stoked considering im only at my 10th AG batch now! Im really not using expensive kit so im really happy! 

Did you have any beers in the comp?


----------



## Killer Brew

Yeah, had 7 in most of which made top 10 in their categories. Unfortunately I didn't crack top 3 on any to get through to the Aust champs this year. Well done on your results, good ones given you are only just getting into AG!


----------



## Stu Brew

Killer Brew said:


> Yeah, had 7 in most of which made top 10 in their categories. Unfortunately I didn't crack top 3 on any to get through to the Aust champs this year. Well done on your results, good ones given you are only just getting into AG!


Yeah cheers. I understand enough chemistry to get me by for now. Im back onto kits for a while now while the hops is on. Not enough time for AG, and dont like to rush things. 

Top work on that...pity about not getting anything into the nationals! There were heaps more entries than last year. Heaps of guys that usually place didnt I think. Hard comp that one. 28 APA's....26 Stouts you'd have to be stoked to have placed I recon. Im not sure a lot of the other lads looked at it like that....but significantly more entries than 2015!


----------



## contrarian

Am I right in thinking that the judging for the Nationals is happening this week?


----------



## n87

Thursday 13th by my reckoning
http://aabc.org.au/


----------



## contrarian

Good luck to all entrants! Couldn't be too bad to be on a tasting panel for this one!


----------



## Weizguy

n87 said:


> Thursday 13th by my reckoning
> http://aabc.org.au/


I hope you're right, as I'll feel quite the fool turning up to judge and no beer to be assessed.
Contrarian, the beers for the Nats can vary, depending on if they are re-brewed or stale, or a single off bottle, etc.


----------



## n87

I would imagine the overall quality would be pretty outstanding tho... specially my one :drinks:


----------



## Parks

Les the Weizguy said:


> I hope you're right, as I'll feel quite the fool turning up to judge and no beer to be assessed.
> Contrarian, the beers for the Nats can vary, depending on if they are re-brewed or stale, or a single off bottle, etc.


Yep - the 2 years I've judged the nationals were no better than the state. That is to say there were quite a lot of flawed beers and a reasonable number of good ones were past their best.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Two more sleeps till comp, people. Three till the all exciting results.

For those of you that can't make it to the conference, we'll be live tweeting the results on Friday night.

Please spread the word among your clubs, and follow @anhc5 on twitter and instagram, and like https://www.facebook.com/theanhc


----------



## barls

hoping mine made it there ok.


----------



## n87

Aus post said mine made it, but OK is another matter.

I would assume that if a bottle had arrived broken that the receiver would try to contact the entrant so they had a chance to send another?
Now its just me being paranoid

And I cant wait for the results, 2nd comp (1st being state) so still a little unsure how most of it works.


----------



## Yob

what beer n87?

My RIS placed third in Vicbrew so hopefully everybody else's gets oxidised in transit


----------



## n87

Yob said:


> what beer n87?
> 
> My RIS placed third in Vicbrew so hopefully everybody else's gets oxidised in transit


Baltic Porter, you're safe... this year


----------



## pcqypcqy

n87 said:


> Baltic Porter, you're safe... this year


Well then, hopefully YOURS got damanged then and my QABC 1st place robust porter will be fine


----------



## n87

pcqypcqy said:


> Well then, hopefully YOURS got damanged then and my QABC 1st place robust porter will be fine


Thems be fighting words!
We will see who comes out on top, surely I can brew a better beer than anything a QLDer can brew h34r:

Good luck all... specially the QLDers who need it the most :beer:


----------



## n87

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Two more sleeps till comp, people. Three till the all exciting results.
> 
> For those of you that can't make it to the conference, we'll be live tweeting the results on Friday night.
> 
> Please spread the word among your clubs, and follow @anhc5 on twitter and instagram, and like https://www.facebook.com/theanhc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AABCTweet.png


So is it @anhc5 or @anhcfive ? the pic and description disagree with each other

From my googling it is @anhcfive, but I am not a twit, so not sure how that all works.


----------



## kaiserben

anhc5 seems to be their Instagram account

@anhcfive is their twitter account (where the live tweeting of results will take place).


----------



## Yob

_*cmon!! *_

Victoria needs a new pair of brew shoes!



n87 said:


> Good luck all... specially the QLDers who need it the most :beer:


----------



## pcqypcqy

Well the good news for me is that I did some 'quality control' last night on the last remaining bottle of the porter I submitted, and if anything it's better than it was a month ago for QABC, so at least I know my beer should be at its peak for judging.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Live tweets have started folks. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/anhcfive


----------



## n87

Watching!

Seem to have stalled after APA tho.... im guessing there is some food being consumed. either that or beer


----------



## Yob

Low Alcohol (<4% Abv) category sponsored by Home Make It.
3rd Rob Vanstone (QLD)
2nd Ian Triggs (NSW)
1st Ian Parr (TAS)


----------



## Yob

Pale Lager category sponsored by Australian Brews News.
3rd Geoff Donnellon (VIC)
2nd Adam Beauchamp (SA)
1st Bernie Glass (WA)


----------



## Yob

Pilsner category sponsored by Grainfather.
3rd Paul Main (ACT)
2nd Ian Mooney (NSW)
1st Scott Eckford (QLD) - I know this name, well done soldier


----------



## Yob

Amber & Dark Lager category sponsored by Grain and Grape.
3rd Adam Beauchamp (SA)
2nd Bernie Glass (W)
1st Matthew Wood (SA)


----------



## Yob

Strong Lager (>6% Abv) category sponsored by Newera Brewing.
3rd Daniel Court (VIC)
2nd Craig Dunbar (NSW)
1st Brad Donaldson (SA)


----------



## Yob

Pale Ale category sponsored by Gladfield Malt.
3rd Lachlan Johnson (SA)
2nd Adrian Ison (ACT)
1st Matt Bradford


----------



## Yob

American Pale Ale category sponsored by HopCo / NZ Hops.
3rd John Dykes (VIC)
2nd Adrian Reich (SA)
1st Shaun Lawson (VIC)


----------



## Grainer

Congrats everyone.. drinking a Lindermans sour for the occasion..


----------



## boonchu

Yep they are doing 6 categories then another course all the way through


----------



## Yob

eatings ******* cheating man.. cmon, were hangin here!!


----------



## Grainer

good luck YOB.. hope your RIS dreams come true for u.. 5 categories for u to go !


----------



## Yob

me now


----------



## Grainer

The way I see it anything in the top 10 is a HUGE achievement. The 1-2-3 is just the topping on the cake that makes it all sweeter.. good luck mate


----------



## mondestrunken

boonchu said:


> Yep they are doing 6 categories then another course all the way through


Don't forget about the speeches...

C'mon!!!


----------



## n87

Arrogant bastard poured for the occasion....

to be honest, being in this comp is an achievement


----------



## robv

Yob said:


> Low Alcohol (<4% Abv) category sponsored by Home Make It.
> 3rd Rob Vanstone (QLD)
> 2nd Ian Triggs (NSW)
> 1st Ian Parr (TAS)


Very happy with a 3rd


----------



## Headmeister

here they come!


----------



## Yob

Robv said:


> Very happy with a 3rd


----------



## Grainer

there up!


----------



## Yob

Bitter Ale category sponsored by Barossa Valley Brewing.
3rd Bruce Tonkin (SA)
2nd James Gallagher (WA)
1st Simon Batty (SA)


----------



## Yob

Brown Ale category sponsored by Beer and Brewer.
3rd Ben Willing (NSW)
2nd Rob Paniak (WA)
1st Matthew Kennedy (SA)


----------



## Yob

Porter category sponsored by Fuller’s Brewery.
3rd Shaun Murphy (VIC)
2nd Paul Moseley (WA)
1st Paul Main (ACT)


----------



## Grainer

I see a trend forming.. if you got a 3rd in Vicbrew.. looks like you are the one that may appear on the 1-2-3 listing lol


----------



## Yob

Stout category sponsored by Coopers.
3rd Ben Lugg (QLD)
2nd Phillip Kennedy (QLD)
1st Ned Summerham (WA)


----------



## Yob

Strong Stout (>6% Abv) category sponsored by Wheatsheaf Hotel.
3rd Greg Butters (TAS)
2nd David Tetley (NSW)
1st Karl Robinson (QLD)


----------



## Yob

India Pale Ale category sponsored by Bad Shepherd Brewing.
3rd Luke Ronalds (QLD)
2nd Bill Swancott (ACT)
1st Andrew Freeman (NSW)


----------



## Yob

India Pale Ale category sponsored by Bad Shepherd Brewing.
3rd Luke Ronalds (QLD)
2nd Bill Swancott (ACT)
1st Andrew Freeman (NSW)


----------



## n87

Well thats me out 
Good luck and congratulations to all who reamins, and placed


----------



## Yob

Strong Ale (>6% Abv) category sponsored by CBIA.
3rd John Sheehan (VIC)
2nd Stephen Lawford (ACT)
1st Matt Spencer (SA)


----------



## Grainer

looks like another break!.. go John.. thats a 3rd for Bayside Brewers!


----------



## contrarian

Thanks for the updates Yob, could never get into Twitter so this is great!


----------



## Yob

Yob said:


> Strong Stout (>6% Abv) category sponsored by Wheatsheaf Hotel.
> 3rd Greg Butters (TAS)
> 2nd David Tetley (NSW)
> 1st Karl Robinson (QLD)


grats guys, Im gunna go drink a Stone crime imperial..


----------



## Yob

contrarian said:


> Thanks for the updates Yob, could never get into Twitter so this is great!


No worries man, thought someone should translate :kooi:


----------



## boonchu

Now another break for dessert back at 915 sa time


----------



## Yob

boonchu said:


> Now another break for dessert back at 915 sa time


what cats are left?


----------



## Grainer

Belgian
wheat
farmhouse 
specialty
mead
cider


----------



## kaiserben

I scored a 3rd in the Brown Ale category. Woo-hoo! 

Bombed out in 2 other categories. Still have one more (the one I thought was my best chance) in specialty beer cat.


----------



## lmccrone

I thought those South Australians were doing suspiciously well for such a small state, and lets be fair folks its really barely a state at all if we're being honest, but then i checked out the results from their state comp. It looks like all they've been doing since Victoria stole the Grand Prix is to hone their brewing skills. No wonder Pirate life popped up over there.


----------



## lmccrone

Up again


----------



## lmccrone

Belgian Strong Ale (>6% Abv) category sponsored by Clever Beewing. 3rd Kent Getsinger (SA) 2nd Roger Duncan (QLD) 1st Tim Byrne (TAS) #aabc


----------



## lmccrone

Wheat & Rye Beer category sponsored by Keg King. 3rd Mark Bedford (VIC) 2nd Luke Scrivens (SA) 1st Bryce van Denderen (VIC) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## lmccrone

Farmhouse Ale & Wild Beer category sponsored by SABSOSA. 3rd Jeff McGrath (WA) 2nd Craig Dunham (ACT) 1st Nick Potter (ACT) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## lmccrone

Specialty Beer category sponsored by Speidel. 3rd Nigel Graham (TAS) 2nd Ben Willing (NSW) 1st Mikko Pludra (VIC) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## lmccrone

Mead category sponsored by Stone Dog Meadery. 3rd Jeff McGrath (WA) 2nd Ben Harmer (ACT) 1st Darren Blackhurst (ACT) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## lmccrone

Cider category sponsored by A.H. Trophies. 3rd Neal Kavanagh (VIC) 2nd Mitch Willebrand (QLD) 1st Calum Maxwell (WA) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## kaiserben

A 3rd and a 2nd for me. Can't complain with that.

EDIT: looks like That 2nd place was beaten by the beer that was awarded Best in Show.


----------



## lmccrone

Champion Beer of Show sponsored by Cryer Malt - Mikko Pludra (VIC) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## lmccrone

Champion Brewer category sponsored by Grain and Grape. Bernie Glass (WA) #aabc #anhc5


----------



## Yob

Grats to all placing and folks who got a show..

******* exciting shit, pleased to have been in, would loved to have tasted the entries in my cat who bumped me..

do we get score sheets on this?

#nevermissinganother


----------



## kaiserben

Yob said:


> do we get score sheets on this?


Yep.


----------



## Velu

Stout category sponsored by Coopers.
3rd Ben Lugg (QLD)
2nd Phillip Kennedy (QLD)
1st Ned Summerham (WA)

Managed to nab first place! Unlucky for me it was the last bottle in existence that got sent off!


----------



## Yob

Velu said:


> Unlucky for me it was the last bottle in existence that got sent off!


ha! usually is in my experience too

Grats on the Gold!


----------



## Beamer

Congrats on all winners and place getters well done to you all. I was very excited to be competing in the states abd nationals. Looking forward to feedback and scoring sheets.


----------



## timmi9191

Where are the full results listed?


----------



## n87

by my guess, the full results arent released yet, but i would imagine they would be on here: http://aabc.org.au/


----------



## petesbrew

Congrats to the winners. Bummed my Oyster stout missed out, but you get that.
It would've been a great time on the judging panel!

Now to wait for the notes...


----------



## George Hawk

Velu said:


> Stout category sponsored by Coopers.
> 3rd Ben Lugg (QLD)
> 2nd Phillip Kennedy (QLD)
> 1st Ned Summerham (WA)
> 
> Managed to nab first place! Unlucky for me it was the last bottle in existence that got sent off!


Big congratulations on the win. I would love to hear about the winning beer?


----------



## NealK

Pretty stoked with a third for my cider!


----------



## Yob

George Hawk said:


> Big congratulations on the win. I would love to hear about the winning beer?


There is a thread somewhere for award winning recipes


----------



## Murdoch

Yob said:


> Pilsner category sponsored by Grainfather.
> 3rd Paul Main (ACT)
> 2nd Ian Mooney (NSW)
> 1st Scott Eckford (QLD) - I know this name, well done soldier


Cheers Yob, I`m pretty stoked with the results !
I call it "Party Pils"


----------



## barabool

Murdoch said:


> Cheers Yob, I`m pretty stoked with the results !
> I call it "Party Pils"


Congrats - Scott beat me 39.6 to 39.3 in the QABC but I didnt submit to AABC as my old man drank my last bottle in the fridge 'by accident'
Congrats to all that entered.


----------



## MartinOC

..and now the bragging-rights for the next year.

Now I'm wondering how the guys are doing at ANHC & wincing at the potentially phenomenal hangovers after Club Night.....OUCH!!! :blink:


----------



## Velu

George Hawk said:


> Big congratulations on the win. I would love to hear about the winning beer?


Hi George,
No problems.
OG: 1052
FG: 1010
IBU: 33 (all from EKG @ 60mins)
Yeast: Notto
Water: Perth tap water

Now for the slightly complicated bit...
This beer was made of second runnings from a RIS, with the mash capped with extra malt to add some body.

RIS (First runnings): 
Marris otter (8kg) 75%
Rolled oats 7%
Black malt 4.7%
Chocolate malt 4.7%
Roasted barley 4.7%
Crystal 120L 2.3%
Crystal 20L 2.3%

Oatmeal stout (Second runnings)
plus added extra 
marris otter (1kg) 77%
Rolled oats 11.5%
Chocolate malt 5.4%
Crystal 120L 3.1%
crystal 20L 3.1%

So it was a beer that was never really planned very well, and was made to provide a nice big yeast cake for the RIS to get pitched onto. It was bottled 2/11/2015 so had nearly a year to mellow out (and it needed it).

Hope some of that helps.
Cheers


----------



## lmccrone

Perks of coming in the top 3 at anhc 

1. Bragging rights 

2. Getting your results before the piss heads at anhc get on the terps and forget to post the rest of the scores


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Yob said:


> Strong Lager (>6% Abv) category sponsored by Newera Brewing.
> 3rd Daniel Court (VIC)
> 2nd Craig Dunbar (NSW)
> 1st Brad Donaldson (SA)


Congrats to Mikko and everyone who placed. We can't believe it, considering the Doppelbock ranked third at Vicbrew. Was a team effort - contrats extended to Paul.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Idea for next time - a case swap for comp beers? Dunno how it'd work and I'm sure the logistics would be a nightmare, but just throwing that out there.


----------



## Weizguy

petesbrew said:


> Congrats to the winners. Bummed my Oyster stout missed out, but you get that.
> It would've been a great time on the judging panel!
> 
> Now to wait for the notes...


NO! Judging panels very stressful, to get things just right to ensure a fair result, and provide some sort of feedback that may help the brewer (not knowing the ingredients/ methods/ ferment regime/ bottling regime/ carbonation level/ beer age).

...and it's unlikely you'd be ON a panel judging your own beer. Having said that, I would have loved to judge on the wheat/rye table as that's my fave style, and I had none entered this year. However, I may have clashed with Stan Hieronymus who was on that table, and who thinks that the phenolics from Belgian yeasts are the same as phenolics from German wheat yeast, when clearly the Ardennes-yeast fermented weizen that was presented at the ANHC was not of the right phenolic profile. I detected the phenols as plummy, rather than dry (as produced by Weizen yeast). This may be better transferred to a new thread, where discussion is more appropriate.

Back to the next Nationals: we are attempting to standardise the bottle size, and we will publicise this more fully to give ALL competitors enough time to accumulate the relevant size bottles (still a little under contention among state delegates). If you have any input for the delegates, please contact and share, as we are YOUR state representatives.
The main issue was exclusion of champagne or corked beer bottles due to stacking issues.

Stay tuned for more, as the AABC delegates had a lot to discuss. Again, look for more in a separate thread.

*Edit: I judged the Farmhouse and Wild beer category, and am happy to discuss my feedback offline, bearing in mind that all feedback is subjective and memory will fade with time. The lambics were nice, as were most of the Witbiers, with some Wits possibly benefiting from a re-brew, minimising HSA or fresher ingredients. Again, not knowing the specifics, I could only generalise my answers, but if you have specifics, maybe my feedback can take that into account and be more helpful?

Les the Weizguy, over and out.


----------



## n87

Not trying to rush anyone, just asking the question, but when are we likely to see the full results?


----------



## Weizguy

I was led to believe that full results were already available, and scoresheets were to be mailed or emailed soon. Please contact SABSOSA via the link on the AABC site, I reckon.


----------



## Wonderwoman

Les the Weizguy said:


> I was led to believe that full results were already available, and scoresheets were to be mailed or emailed soon. Please contact SABSOSA via the link on the AABC site, I reckon.


The top 3 places from each category were announced at the anhc gala dinner and live tweeted on Friday night, but I haven't seen the full results yet.


----------



## n87

wonderwoman said:


> The top 3 places from each category were announced at the anhc gala dinner and live tweeted on Friday night, but I haven't seen the full results yet.


I have been refreshing AABC...

I will hold off annoying SABSOSA for the moment.


----------



## WarmerBeer

wonderwoman said:


> The top 3 places from each category were announced at the anhc gala dinner and live tweeted on Friday night, but I haven't seen the full results yet.


I'm surprised you can remember even that much detail from Friday night.


----------



## Wonderwoman

WarmerBeer said:


> I'm surprised you can remember even that much detail from Friday night.


bhahaha!

Let's just say the beer selection at the gala dinner wasn't that exciting, so I didn't go too hard


----------



## Brew Matt

Have a look at this article that has the results at the bottom.

http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2016/10/day-of-reckoning-for-amateur-brewers/


----------



## n87

Thats just the placings (posted previously in this topic.)
I want to know where I came, and scores, not that the South Australians rigged it 

Still in the remote hope that someone miscounted and I actually got 1st and best beer in show


----------



## Brew Matt

Sorry, I didn't scroll back in the thread far enough.


----------



## NealK

I just sent an email to SABSOSA and gt a very quick reply saying
"They should be up this week. We are putting it all together now."


----------



## lmccrone

God damn lazy volunteers, how dare they inconvenience me!


----------



## moonhead

wonderwoman said:


> bhahaha!
> 
> Let's just say the beer selection at the gala dinner wasn't that exciting, so I didn't go too hard


I don't know, it seemed to get a lot of people excited. The same way as union picket lines get exciting.


----------



## Headmeister

Well done to winners and place getters. 

Remember, there will always be death, taxes and beer.


----------



## mondestrunken

lmccrone said:


> God damn lazy volunteers, how dare they inconvenience me!


If everyone stopped hassling them they'd probably be done by now!!! :lol:


----------



## doglet

Full results just posted on aabc.org.au


----------



## Kieren

Yes folks, the full results are now up. Congrats to all place getters and thanks to everyone who helped out in organising and judging/stewarding on the day.

http://www.aabc.org.au/stateresults/AABC2016FullResults.pdf

I'll be getting in touch with your state delegates soon in order to get trophies and judging sheets sent out.

Cheers


----------



## Codehopper

Just checked my results and there is some kind of WTF with them.

My qualifying beer at NSW comp was a Russian Imperial Stout. However, because it was the only remaining bottle, I used the rule that for National comp I can enter beer in the same category, Strong Stout -- so I brewed a Foreign Extra Stout (actually, Tropical), and entered that one.

Now, in the results list I see my beer listed as RIS. I'm left wondering whether it's been judged as a RIS or actually a Foreign Extra. :blink:


----------



## Beamer

Very happy to have been able to compete in the nationals this year, my first year brewing. Thanks to all the judges and stewards at all levels, I have learn alot and can hopefully put this to good use. Hoping to improve my scores and beers next year. Congrats again to all winners and place getters!!!!!


----------



## NealK

Well I'm pretty bloody happy, 1 x 3rd, 2 x 4th & a 7th. Thank you to all involved with the comp!


----------



## mckenry

NealK said:


> Well I'm pretty bloody happy, 1 x 3rd, 2 x 4th & a 7th. Thank you to all involved with the comp!


Bloody hell. You had (at least) 4 beers at the Nationals, via Vic competition?
I cant believe it. You don't have enough posts to be a good brewer.
Congrats man.


----------



## barls

I'm happy with my fifth. would of liked a 3rd or higher but can't be picky


----------



## droid

I got a first!















...and then I woke up


----------



## barls

droid said:


> I got a first!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and then I woke up


glad to see you got your hand off it.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Who is Andrew Freeman from NSW - is he on the forum? 

Interested to see what his IPA that placed 1st was made with :super:


----------



## kaiserben

He's on here as "labrooy" and describes himself as more of a lurker than regular poster.


----------



## kaiserben

Awesome! I ended up getting a 2nd, 3rd, 5th and a 20th (aka last, with a Kolsch that was a re-brew and my first attempt at bottling off from a keg. This attempt didn't go so well and was well under carbed. I entered it regardless, for shits and giggles).


----------



## Yob

NealK said:


> Well I'm pretty bloody happy, 1 x 3rd, 2 x 4th & a 7th. Thank you to all involved with the comp!





mckenry said:


> Bloody hell. You had (at least) 4 beers at the Nationals, via Vic competition?
> I cant believe it. You don't have enough posts to be a good brewer.
> Congrats man.


totally expected, after all he did have 74 entries in each category :lol:


----------



## Grainer

Wrapped with a 4th and a 6th !


----------



## pcqypcqy

A third of a point.....

Still, freaking stoked to make nationals with my first ever comp entry, let alone 4th.


----------



## DU99

see next one is in melbourne


----------



## Blind Dog

Pratty1 said:


> Who is Andrew Freeman from NSW - is he on the forum?
> 
> Interested to see what his IPA that placed 1st was made with :super:


Bet he used Munich and some caramels
(assume I knew what I was doing and had added an appropriate emoji signifying sarcasm)


----------



## paulyman

I heard it was a Vienna smash. Hehe.


----------



## barls

paulyman said:


> I heard it was a Vienna smash. Hehe.


i heard it was a coopers kit and a dry hop bag


----------



## contrarian

barls said:


> i heard it was a coopers kit and a dry hop bag


Fermented with some yeast from fatgodzilla's beard!

Happy to have been a part of this and a big thank you to all the organizers! Looks like specialty ales was a tough category!


----------



## barls

contrarian said:


> Fermented with some yeast from fatgodzilla's beard!


that shit isn't even welcome in the sour category.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

contrarian said:


> Fermented with some yeast from fatgodzilla's beard!



Chris White seriously interested in culturing this yeast .. he reckons it will revolutionise brewing and make both of us filthy rich!









:lol:


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Seriously, well done all winners and place getters. It was a great presentation night, well hosted and well run. South Australia won champion state (for only the second time I think). The dinner itself was magnificent. All in all, a great time.


----------



## petesbrew

Les the Weizguy said:


> NO! Judging panels very stressful, to get things just right to ensure a fair result, and provide some sort of feedback that may help the brewer (not knowing the ingredients/ methods/ ferment regime/ bottling regime/ carbonation level/ beer age).
> 
> ...and it's unlikely you'd be ON a panel judging your own beer. Having said that, I would have loved to judge on the wheat/rye table as that's my fave style, and I had none entered this year. However, I may have clashed with Stan Hieronymus who was on that table, and who thinks that the phenolics from Belgian yeasts are the same as phenolics from German wheat yeast, when clearly the Ardennes-yeast fermented weizen that was presented at the ANHC was not of the right phenolic profile. I detected the phenols as plummy, rather than dry (as produced by Weizen yeast). This may be better transferred to a new thread, where discussion is more appropriate.
> 
> Back to the next Nationals: we are attempting to standardise the bottle size, and we will publicise this more fully to give ALL competitors enough time to accumulate the relevant size bottles (still a little under contention among state delegates). If you have any input for the delegates, please contact and share, as we are YOUR state representatives.
> The main issue was exclusion of champagne or corked beer bottles due to stacking issues.
> 
> Stay tuned for more, as the AABC delegates had a lot to discuss. Again, look for more in a separate thread.
> 
> *Edit: I judged the Farmhouse and Wild beer category, and am happy to discuss my feedback offline, bearing in mind that all feedback is subjective and memory will fade with time. The lambics were nice, as were most of the Witbiers, with some Wits possibly benefiting from a re-brew, minimising HSA or fresher ingredients. Again, not knowing the specifics, I could only generalise my answers, but if you have specifics, maybe my feedback can take that into account and be more helpful?
> 
> Les the Weizguy, over and out.


Sorry Les, I meant it would be great to be on the judging table as 99% of the beers there would be the cream of the crop from around the country!
I've helped out previously at the Castle Hill comp. It would've been an ordeal critiquing all the points. 
I'm looking forward to the feedback, as we all are. And yep I know the go about not judging your own beer. lol.
Cheers
Pete


----------



## labrooy

Pratty1 said:


> Who is Andrew Freeman from NSW - is he on the forum?
> 
> Interested to see what his IPA that placed 1st was made with :super:


If you are after a recipe, last year I placed with a clone of Firestone Walker Union Jack and this year with a clone of Avery Maharaja


----------



## mondestrunken

What happened to the champion state results? The twitter feed from the other night had SA-ACT-NSW. Now from the full results it looks like SA-QLD-VIC.


----------



## mb-squared

labrooy said:


> If you are after a recipe, last year I placed with a clone of Firestone Walker Union Jack and this year with a clone of Avery Maharaja


cool, thanks for posting that. I didn't know about the Avery brewery before but love how they post a homebrew recipe with the description of the beer. good stuff. cheers,


----------



## doglet

mondestrunken said:


> What happened to the champion state results? The twitter feed from the other night had SA-ACT-NSW. Now from the full results it looks like SA-QLD-VIC.


Yes you're right. Apologies for that. The mead and cider results have been removed from the state totals in these published results as they aren't being counted towards champion state until fully ratified by the AABA. This was the third year of the trial and not all states are judging them in state comps. The AABA are consulting on the way forward and should have a decision for next year's comps.
Cheers Tim.


----------



## mondestrunken

doglet said:


> Yes you're right. Apologies for that. The mead and cider results have been removed from the state totals in these published results as they aren't being counted towards champion state until fully ratified by the AABA. This was the third year of the trial and not all states are judging them in state comps. The AABA are consulting on the way forward and should have a decision for next year's comps.
> Cheers Tim.


Hey thanks for the explanation. I know that mead and cider are relatively new additions to the competition. In my opinion the more styles the merrier... until we start allowing wine in :blink: :beerbang: .


----------



## donald_trub

Regarding standardisation of bottle sizes for next year, when will we hear more? I want to bottle some beer early. What are the likely thoughts here?


----------



## lmccrone

NealK said:


> Well I'm pretty bloody happy, 1 x 3rd, 2 x 4th & a 7th. Thank you to all involved with the comp!


One third, two fourths and a seventh for you; one tenth for me. Seems a little too close to call, I guess we'll just have to let the amber larger comp on the weekend determine the better brewer!


----------



## Dan Pratt

Blind Dog said:


> Bet he used Munich and some caramels
> (assume I knew what I was doing and had added an appropriate emoji signifying sarcasm)


haha. after all my carry on about Munich and crystal malt in IPA's its likely. 

So....I checked out the clone that he made " Avery Maharaja" phew.....no munich.  h34r:

94% Ale, 3% C120 and 3% Victory 

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=242812

https://beermasters.org/2015/11/18/averys-maharaja-imperial-ipa-homebrew-recipe-clone/

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/the-maharaja


----------



## fungrel

labrooy said:


> If you are after a recipe, last year I placed with a clone of Firestone Walker Union Jack and this year with a clone of Avery Maharaja


This makes me wonder.. How many others in this year's comp placed from using a clone? I never thought about submitting a clone, but maybe this is a good way of removing the element of recipe creation and focusing on technique.


----------



## Codehopper

Any news on when the judges' notes are going to be sent out?


----------



## [email protected]_dan

fungrel said:


> This makes me wonder.. How many others in this year's comp placed from using a clone? I never thought about submitting a clone, but maybe this is a good way of removing the element of recipe creation and focusing on technique.


Our Doppelbock which placed third in both Vicbrew and AABC16 was highly inspired by the malt bill and AA% additions as published in AHA Zymurgy Sep/Oct 2014 pg 62 'Schmitten Doppelbock' AHA Competition Winner, along with other research...


----------



## Headmeister

Seems the commercial Avery Maharaja is definitely on the Imperial or double IPA end of the scale, with OG ranging from 1088 to 1093 depending on the recipes. Recipes include between 700g and 1.1kg LDME, so if you left that out, you'd probably be back in IPA range according to the style guidelines. 

My American Barleywine was inspired by influences from both the Alesmith's 'Evil Dead Red' and Tree House Brewing 'Julius' both from the USA.


----------



## Codehopper

Got the judges' feedback last night. WTF. I mean, What. The. Actual. ****.

I clearly remember putting words like "Foreign Extra Stout (Tropical)" on the label of beer I entered into the comp.

Yet I received the notes with "Russian Imperial Stout" on them, and feedback like, "this nice Foreign Extra Stout pretty much sucks as a Russian Imperial".

I don't think I'd have got some prized place in the comp anyway, however, this foreign extra stout got me the 4th place and HC at the Summer Lovin' Brew comp past January, and this time I made all attempts to make it better, based on the feedback -- and that's why I so much wanted to know if it scored better or worse compared to the last one.

But feeling robbed of even a chance, and, more importantly, not having a proper detailed objective feedback is quite frustrating.

Also I wonder, if THREE judges suggested the beer was entered in the wrong style (but same category, mind you), would it be worth checking with the stewards/whomever the original entry form?


----------



## pcqypcqy

edit: didn't read post correctly - sorry.

What did it get entered as?


----------



## Parks

12. STRONG STOUT (>6% ABV)



[SIZE=9pt]12.1 Australian Stout/ Foreign Extra Stout [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]12.2 American Stout
12.3 Russian Imperial Stout [/SIZE]


----------



## Codehopper

pcqypcqy said:


> What did it get entered as?


If it was a question to me, the chronology of events was:

1. Got the 2nd place at NSW Comp with a RIS
2. Alas, it was the last bottle
3. Brewed another beer from Strong Stout category: a FES/Tropical
4. Submitted to AABC clearly marked as FES/Tropical
5. ???
6. PROFIT got the results marked as RIS


----------



## Yob

Email results or hard copy? I've still not received either


----------



## kaiserben

I got emailed score sheets late last night (11.19pm to be exact)


----------



## Parks

That sounds pretty annoying Codehopper.


----------



## mb-squared

appears my APA was mixed up with someone else's. I was dinged for "prominent/overwhelming diacetyl aroma/flavour" but commended on the "excellent clarity". But my beer was not clear and I knew it'd suffer for that. Other than that it hit the marks of an APA and it definitely did not have any diacetyl problems. Last time I bother with Nats.


----------



## jlmcgrath

Codehopper said:


> Got the judges' feedback last night. WTF. I mean, What. The. Actual. ****.
> 
> I clearly remember putting words like "Foreign Extra Stout (Tropical)" on the label of beer I entered into the comp.
> 
> Yet I received the notes with "Russian Imperial Stout" on them, and feedback like, "this nice Foreign Extra Stout pretty much sucks as a Russian Imperial".
> 
> I don't think I'd have got some prized place in the comp anyway, however, this foreign extra stout got me the 4th place and HC at the Summer Lovin' Brew comp past January, and this time I made all attempts to make it better, based on the feedback -- and that's why I so much wanted to know if it scored better or worse compared to the last one.
> 
> But feeling robbed of even a chance, and, more importantly, not having a proper detailed objective feedback is quite frustrating.
> 
> Also I wonder, if THREE judges suggested the beer was entered in the wrong style (but same category, mind you), would it be worth checking with the stewards/whomever the original entry form?


I was one of the judges that judged your FES Codehopper. I did my best to try to sort it out with the organizers but they didn't really hear what I had to say. There was also a RIS that should have been a FES. Entry numbers were 177 and 117.


----------



## Codehopper

jlmcgrath said:


> I was one of the judges that judged your FES Codehopper. I did my best to try to sort it out with the organizers but they didn't really hear what I had to say. There was also a RIS that should have been a FES. Entry numbers were 177 and 117.


Yep my entry number was 117. Obviously I am not trying to blame you, my point was that organisers should have had listened to judges. Furthermore, this is likely not the first ever case happening, so there must have been some protocol for fast backtracking samples to the entry forms.. not implemented at that comp.

I might say something like "to hell with Nats, I'm not going to enter it again", but hey what are my chances to do it again anyway. Having placed at NSW makes me satisfied with a good RIS recipe that I got on hand, and in the next state comp I will enter some different beer that I want to improve to the same level.


----------



## mondestrunken

I got my scoresheets last night via email.

There was heaps of detailed comments and suggestions. One of my beers bombed out pretty bad but the comments on that one were I think especially helpful.

Thanks so much to the judges.and to everyone else involved in the aabc this year. Cheers :beer:


----------



## Beamer

I recieved my score sheets via email Sunday night. Was great to see such great comments and tips. I must say they were all very consistent too. Hopefully I can put this advice to good use and improve some beers and hopefully compete and nationals again next year.

Thanks to all those involved.
Beamer


----------



## Yob

still nothing.. should I be contacting people yet?


----------



## Parks

Yob said:


> still nothing.. should I be contacting people yet?


I got my Cider scoresheets through overnight so I wouldn't stress _just yet._


----------



## Autopilot

Were you emails from the aabc or from your respective state brewing association?


----------



## wambesi

Got mine yesterday, looks like they're slowly being sent out.


----------



## Parks

Autopilot said:


> Were you emails from the aabc or from your respective state brewing association?


From a personal email account on behalf of SA AABC committee and the email looks very SPAM-like.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Parks said:


> From a personal email account on behalf of SA AABC committee and the email looks very SPAM-like.


I got mine from a personal email. Looks a little spammy, but my email (gmail) didn't filter it.


----------



## Parks

pcqypcqy said:


> I got mine from a personal email. Looks a little spammy, but my email (gmail) didn't filter it.


Mine didn't get filtered either.


----------



## MichaelM

I haven't received my scoresheet yet. My entry was administered by Vicbrew. Anyone other Vicbrew entrants still waiting on scoresheets?


----------



## Wonderwoman

MichaelM said:


> I haven't received my scoresheet yet. My entry was administered by Vicbrew. Anyone other Vicbrew entrants still waiting on scoresheets?


One of the Bayside place getters was posted his glass and the box had all the Bayside score sheets in it. Haven't heard of anyone in the club receiving them via email.


----------



## Yob

well Im starting to think this is pretty shit.

No communication, no email, no letters... this the the Nats which should be as good or better than club run comps.. which it isnt.

Who to contact? The AABC is rather light on contact cards


----------



## manticle

Contact vicbrew and go from there.


----------



## GalBrew

I guess when a different state runs the AABC every year, consistency in processes is not going to happen.....annoying as it may be!


----------



## Parks

Yob said:


> well Im starting to think this is pretty shit.
> 
> No communication, no email, no letters... this the the Nats which should be as good or better than club run comps.. which it isnt.
> 
> Who to contact? The AABC is rather light on contact cards


Something people don't seem to realise is communication is absolute key in any organisation. 

It would be nothing for organisers to have a twitter update saying "Results expected to be posted by ..."

Then later "Results for x, y and z classed emailed out. Please contact <blah> if you haven't received yours"

We all know that everyone are volunteers. We really appreciate the massive effort that goes into these competitions. With a very small amount of communication people are generally happy to wait while processing occurs.


----------



## Yob

GalBrew said:


> I guess when a different state runs the AABC every year, consistency in processes is not going to happen.....annoying as it may be!


youll have to forgive me if I think doing a good job it part of the responsibility of putting it on... cant do it?

Step aside and let someone who will.. as said above, a little communication goes a long way, to date there has been none.


----------



## GalBrew

I agree with you 100% Yob.


----------



## kaiserben

Yesterday, in the mail, I got an engraved glass for a 2nd place and also an engraved medal for a 3rd place. 

Seeing as all the categories are sponsored, does this mean winners/placers should be expecting prizes?


----------



## boonchu

As a category sponsor I think our money paid for the medals and glassware


----------



## MartinOC

kaiserben said:


> Yesterday, in the mail, I got an engraved glass for a 2nd place and also an engraved medal for a 3rd place.
> 
> Seeing as all the categories are sponsored, does this mean winners/placers should be expecting prizes?


Erm...yeah, that would be your engraved glass & medal....


----------



## kaiserben

Thanks for your response ...


----------



## Zorco

Yob said:


> youll have to forgive me if I think doing a good job it part of the responsibility of putting it on... cant do it?
> 
> Step aside and let someone who will.. as said above, a little communication goes a long way, to date there has been none.


Can't expect everyone to operate at the same quality as your bulk buys Yob. A few level ups needed.


----------



## Zorco

DP


----------



## Yob

I'd STILL like to get my score sheets...

nada

zipdy bubkis

SFA response

miffed


----------



## pcqypcqy

Yeah wow, that's taken a while.


----------



## MitchD

Have you contacted the person whose email address or phone number I gave you? Or are you just venting on an online forum they may or may not frequent?


----------



## Yob

They have even contacted without reply. 

Vicbrew contacted them too I believe.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Yob said:


> Cant do it?
> 
> Step aside and let someone who will.. .


Coz people are beating down the ******* door to organise this shit. 

Glad to see you'll be a lead for ANHC/AABC in two years time I guess?


----------



## Yob

As I do for Beerfest and as I do for vicbrew, 

As I do for many other things like swaps throughout the year..

Yes I'll be on board to help.. My ******* point is valid


----------



## WarmerBeer




----------



## Yob

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Glad to see you'll be a lead for ANHC/AABC in two years time I guess?


I'm pretty sure (guessing) we'll use compmaster and results will get emailed and posted to individuals not sent to "someone, not sure who"

I'm not blaming you for this fuckup, and there is no other word for it, but somebody has dropped the ball big time on this issue.

It's left a bitter taste in my mouth to get this from my first nats entry and get no feedback.


----------



## Andyd

Yob,

This was a Vicbrew clerical error, not the fault of the AABA organising committee... they were most embarrassed by the error, and more so because they didn't know where they'd gone.

Cheers,

Andy


----------



## jkeske

The AABC Categories & Styles have been updated for 2017


http://aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2017_CategoriesAndStylesList.pdf

http://aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2017StyleGuidelines.pdf


----------



## NealK

jkeske said:


> The AABC Categories & Styles have been updated for 2017
> 
> 
> http://aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2017_CategoriesAndStylesList.pdf
> 
> http://aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2017StyleGuidelines.pdf


Brilliant!


----------



## Radshoes

im just excited about the kegerator
'


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Looking at booking some accomodation for AABC 2017 ..never been to Perthso time is nigh! Anyone got an idea / gut feeling of where the judging wil be? Inner Perth or somewhere in the burbs.


----------



## Mikedub

jkeske said:


> The AABC Categories & Styles have been updated for 2017
> 
> 
> http://aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2017_CategoriesAndStylesList.pdf
> 
> http://aabc.org.au/docs/AABC2017StyleGuidelines.pdf


just seeking clarification, would a Brown Porter fall under English Porter?


----------



## kaiserben

Mikedub said:


> just seeking clarification, would a Brown Porter fall under English Porter?



From what I can tell they are identical (and the Robust Porter of AABC 2015 guidelines has become American Porter for 2017).


----------



## mtb

But I must know - did Yob ever get his scoresheets?


----------



## Fatgodzilla

And do we have a venue yet?


----------



## barls

Fatgodzilla said:


> And do we have a venue yet?


still searching for one in australia that will let you in.


----------



## Fatgodzilla

Coming to your place in 3 weeks .. change of venue for the aabc?


----------



## -ThirstyBrewer-

Does anyone know why the Characteristic Ingredients; Vital Statistics; Commercial Examples; & Tags part of the style guide are not included in the 2017 AABC Guidelines for "Strong Bitter" Sub-Category 6.6?


----------



## MartinOC

Good catch!! That's obviously just an omission & will be fixed-up in the next day or so.

In the meantime, FYI:

Characteristic Ingredients: Pale ale, amber, and/or crystal malts, may use a touch of black malt for color adjustment. May use sugar adjuncts, corn or wheat. English finishing hops are most traditional, but any hops are fair game; if American hops are used, a light touch is required. Characterful British yeast. Burton versions use medium to high sulfate water, which can increase the perception of dryness and add a minerally or sulfury aroma and flavor.

Style Comparison: More evident malt and hop flavors than in a special or best bitter, as well as more alcohol. Stronger versions may overlap somewhat with British strong ales, although strong bitters will tend to be paler and more bitter. More malt flavor (particularly caramel) and esters than an American Pale Ale, with different finishing hop character.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.048 – 1.060 IBUs: 30 – 50 FG: 1.010 – 1.016 SRM: 8 – 18 ABV: 4.6 – 6.2%

Commercial Examples: Bass Ale, Highland Orkney Blast, Samuel Smith’s Old Brewery Pale Ale, Shepherd Neame Bishop's Finger, Shepherd Neame Spitfire, West Berkshire Dr. Hexter’s Healer, Whitbread Pale Ale, Young’s Ram Rod

Tags: session-strength, amber-color, top-fermented, britishisles, traditional-style, amber-ale-family, bitter


----------



## -ThirstyBrewer-

Thanks Martin. 

I figured that might have been the case.


----------



## HoppyDays

Hi Guys, 

Are we looking at Perth as the location just want to start looking at flights / accom etc. 

Cheers Steve


----------



## MartinOC

*Call for JUDGES & STEWARDS for AABC2017 in Perth (actually Cockburn, just SE of Fremantle)*

The WA organisers are looking for judges and stewards to join them at the national competition AABC2017 to be held on Saturday 14th October in Perth, Western Australia. There will be a site up in the next week or so to allow registration of Judges and Stewards.

*Location *Cabin 401 (Cockburn Ice Arena) (10am-6pm), 401 Progress Dr, Bibra Lake WA 6163

Please note that transport to and from the Cockburn train station will be organised for those travelling to Western Australian for this competition. A separate email will be sent for accommodation options for our Interstate Guests.

The AABC is a registered BCJP event and point will be allocated for those that are BJCP Ranked.

For more information, please contact the AABC Coordinator, Sean Johnson <[email protected]>


----------



## malt junkie

MartinOC said:


> *Call for JUDGES & STEWARDS for AABC2017 in Perth (actually Cockburn, just SE of Fremantle)*
> 
> The WA organisers are looking for judges and stewards to join them at the national competition AABC2017 to be held on Saturday 14th October in Perth, Western Australia. There will be a site up in the next week or so to allow registration of Judges and Stewards.
> 
> *Location *Cabin 401 (Cockburn Ice Arena) (10am-6pm), 401 Progress Dr, Bibra Lake WA 6163
> 
> Please note that transport to and from the Cockburn train station will be organised for those travelling to Western Australian for this competition. A separate email will be sent for accommodation options for our Interstate Guests.
> 
> The AABC is a registered BCJP event and point will be allocated for those that are BJCP Ranked.
> 
> For more information, please contact the AABC Coordinator, Sean Johnson <[email protected]>


I'd say ROAD TRIP but I already have my Dads 80th in Bega booked in. One coach 50 brewers 2 days by road would be epic! Ah well...


----------



## Dae Tripper

http://www.aabc.org.au

Is this really the website?


----------



## Dae Tripper

Have fun tasting all the yummy beers today! Your services are greatly appreciated!


----------



## NealK

When do the results come out?


----------



## [email protected]_dan

NealK said:


> When do the results come out?


This might not be helpfull but guessing probably after the awards ceremony?

http://aabc.westcoastbrewers.com/entry

..The awards ceremony will take place once judging is completed..

Awards Ceremony
TBA
Sunday 15 October, 2017 at 19:30, SGT


----------



## lmccrone

NealK said:


> When do the results come out?


I think they live tweeted it last year


----------



## bingggo

What twitter account?


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Found last year @anhcfive did but no posts yet this year.. Perth time too so might be a late night?!!


----------



## HoppyDays

From my understanding there is no awards presentation ceremony so will have to wait until info is posted


----------



## bingggo

Hmmm. Seems a shame. They had advertised one on http://aabc.westcoastbrewers.com/entry... must have cancelled:

*Awards Ceremony*
TBA
Sunday 15 October, 2017 at 19:30, SGT


----------



## MartinOC

Tease


----------



## benken25

So when?


----------



## bingggo

I asked AABC via fb. Friday, they hope.


----------



## PaleRider

bingggo said:


> I asked AABC via fb. Friday, they hope.


 
Surely this is a joke.... best part of a week to release results which are already known to the ones who attended!


----------



## bingggo

Strange thing is there are no posts about outcomes on AABC or West Coast Brewers Facebook pages. I get the impression the award ceremony didn't happen. The registration website now says awards is on Saturday 21st at 19:30 WA time.

I'm glad I didn't fly to WA for the ceremony that was meant to be last night!


----------



## PaleRider

You make a good point bingggo. Surely some people did travel to the event. 
I bet they're not all hanging around a week waiting for the awards so they can go home...


----------



## dibbz

Says 21st Oct now


----------



## bingggo

Now, a comment on their Facebook page says midweek.


----------



## dibbz

I'll still be hitting refresh every 15 minutes regardless


----------



## Womball

The "Awards Ceremony" section of the site is a


bingggo said:


> Hmmm. Seems a shame. They had advertised one on http://aabc.westcoastbrewers.com/entry... must have cancelled:
> 
> *Awards Ceremony*
> TBA
> Sunday 15 October, 2017 at 19:30, SGT



That is mostly a hang up from the site software - You can't remove the "Awards Ceremony" section from the software/Website that we used for the QABC (same software as the AABC).......only change the date.


----------



## lmccrone

PaleRider said:


> Surely this is a joke.... best part of a week to release results which are already known to the ones who attended!


I'm pretty impressed you went to the trouble of taking a photo of your beer frowning for this post


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

PaleRider said:


> Surely this is a joke.... best part of a week to release results which are already known to the ones who attended!



Nobody knows the results except maybe the comp secs. I know the entry numbers of the beers I put in first second and third, that's it. Actually it's not even that because as if I remember entry numbers from 70 beers ago.

Live results are great (when there is an awards ceremony which usually only happens for ANHC years), quick results are great the rest of the time, but I'll reiterate a point I've made in years previous: you have no idea how hard this shit is with varied volunteer time and usually 1-5 people max helping prep till you do it yourself. 

There's always room for improvement, and honest, fair feedback is warranted and welcome (especially directly to the organisers rather than to the ether on a forum) but the best thing you can do to improve the future of the AABC is get tangibly involved in its success by coming to judge/steward and to help organise when it hits your state. (and also read the style guidelines for detail requirements on specialties/meads etc...srsly people)


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Nobody knows the results except maybe the comp secs. I know the entry numbers of the beers I put in first second and third, that's it. Actually it's not even that because as if I remember entry numbers from 70 beers ago.
> 
> Live results are great (when there is an awards ceremony which usually only happens for ANHC years), quick results are great the rest of the time, but I'll reiterate a point I've made in years previous: you have no idea how hard this shit is with varied volunteer time and usually 1-5 people max helping prep till you do it yourself.
> 
> There's always room for improvement, and honest, fair feedback is warranted and welcome (especially directly to the organisers rather than to the ether on a forum) but the best thing you can do to improve the future of the AABC is get tangibly involved in its success by coming to judge/steward and to help organise when it hits your state. (and also read the style guidelines for detail requirements on specialties/meads etc...srsly people)


Cheers for the info and again your involvement. I think that there are a lot of pationate people here and looking for info or details on the AABC schedule over the weekend and outcomes. Anyway, your right, it's probably not the place to bleet.. I just read the Merri Mashers comp thread and hope that this stays on point. Anyway, I think a wise man once said something along the line that maybe everyone should relax and enjoy a homebrew.[emoji481]


----------



## nickxb

Results are now on AABC Facebook page


----------



## earle

Direct link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-x6q2NS-7KOE9uOS1RSDJ1RXM/view


----------



## kaiserben

Woo-hoo! My first 1st at Nationals.

EDIT: Edited out direct link as I was beaten to the punch


----------



## brzt6060

Whooohoooo!


----------



## biggo

As the guys have said the Results are now up


----------



## biggo

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Nobody knows the results except maybe the comp secs. I know the entry numbers of the beers I put in first second and third, that's it. Actually it's not even that because as if I remember entry numbers from 70 beers ago.
> 
> Live results are great (when there is an awards ceremony which usually only happens for ANHC years), quick results are great the rest of the time, but I'll reiterate a point I've made in years previous: you have no idea how hard this shit is with varied volunteer time and usually 1-5 people max helping prep till you do it yourself.
> 
> There's always room for improvement, and honest, fair feedback is warranted and welcome (especially directly to the organisers rather than to the ether on a forum) but the best thing you can do to improve the future of the AABC is get tangibly involved in its success by coming to judge/steward and to help organise when it hits your state. (and also read the style guidelines for detail requirements on specialties/meads etc...srsly people)


Cheers Buddy


----------



## PaleRider

Anybody seen the "Full" results yet? 
I'm assuming there would be a lot of folks wanting to see how they went....


----------



## NealK

Full results would be nice! Its been more than a week. Will we see the judging sheets before Christmas?


----------



## Andyd

Parks said:


> Judges definitely don't see the gravities or your yeast choice. TBH I'm not entirely sure if that data is collated anywhere or if it's simply always been on the entry form so it continues to be.



Gravity is used by the organisers to figure out the appropriate serving order, it it is generally not presented to the judges. That said, if a judge was to ask what the gravity was, they will usually be told by the stewards. I've been on judging tables before where we have asked the question particularly if we have suspected that an entry was presented in the wrong category.

Cheers!


----------



## PaleRider

+ finally full results.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-x6q2NS-7KSi1LSnEta0toZTA/view


----------



## [email protected]_dan

PaleRider said:


> + finally full results.... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7-x6q2NS-7KSi1LSnEta0toZTA/view


Hmm IPA was judged but my cider not listed..


----------



## barls

i look forward to the score sheets as both my beers went from 40+ point beers down to high 20 and low 30.


----------



## PaleRider

barls said:


> i look forward to the score sheets as both my beers went from 40+ point beers down to high 20 and low 30.


yeah mine went down a few points.... but to be honest I was kind of expecting it given the distance travelled / handling etc.... 
When I saw this pic on the AABC facebook last week I was just hoping mine weren't in the grain sacks in the back of the trailer....


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Geez..no wonder. They would be empty though? There is quite a bit of spread in the results across most categories. A worse case example here but if you look at APA 41 down to 19.. Given all our entries were top 3 in each state and would have scored high 30's/low 40's.. the low scores need some explaining??


----------



## PaleRider

[email protected]_dan said:


> Geez..no wonder. They would be empty though?



You'd hope so.


----------



## NealK

Really! I know that we are amateurs and it takes a lot of hard work from volunteers to put even a small competition together but this is the pinnacle of Australian home brewing. The fact that it has taken sooo long to get the results out was a touch annoying but when the organisers can't even be bothered to put them in place order speaks volumes. Passionate brewers that have worked hard to win a spot in their state championships deserve better communication than this. Again I understand the pressure involved in organising competitions but the results are what most brewers look for, and look back at for reference. If this set of results represents the best that can be done at a national level then I'm very disappointed.

edit - too harsh


----------



## Codehopper

PaleRider said:


> When I saw this pic on the AABC facebook last week I was just hoping mine weren't in the grain sacks in the back of the trailer....



In the photo, the bottle visible upside down seems very empty to me, so I'm buying that other bottles are empty, too.

Another thing is that probably a good half of styles require rebrewing - anything xPA and wheat, at least. If those were not rebrewed, they might have lost points for being not fresh enough. If they were rebrewed, they might have turned out not as good as the original entries. Yes, I know, we all here are proud of consistency of our brew etc, but things may happen. I hope that scoresheets would be readable enough to explain things (my personal experience is that 60% of them are not).

Otherwise, I feel like giving a credit where credit is due, it was fairly well organised competition. On a scale from 0 to 10 (the latter being the last one in NSW - hat tip to Stuart Upton and ISB folks), this was a firm 8. The last year's comp in Adelaide was, probably, 5.5.

What still makes me shaking my head.. was it really difficult to sort the results by score in descending order?


----------



## Parks

You guys seem to think AABC is some professional organisation with directors and funding and business experience.

AABC doesn't really exist. It's a committee made up of the state delegates. Considering how amateurishly run some of the state competitions are you can't expect miracles. AABC _could become_ a properly run business but there is no way to fund that. Every dollar goes to running the comp and going back to the entrants.

By all means offer constructive criticism, voice your expectations but don't think Bob that works full time and has to get his kids to bed is going to have a week of sleepless nights _*after*_ the comp just to bust out scores of those who didn't place.

I know someone says it every year but if you want things to be done better - get involved. Make a difference.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Not complaining: But I did notice some entries that wouldn't have benefited from a re-brew got marked down heavily at AABC c.f. QABC. I'll be interested to see the score sheets, but in one example (stouts) I can't see how a 44.5 point beer only gets 29.5, and a 40.5 beer only gets 26.5. A few points reduction is fair enough if you've got better judges and better beers to compare against, and maybe freshness is an issue as well. But 15 points doesn't seem right.


----------



## Parks

The biggest change is scores can also be because different judges have different levels of perception to faults and also have different experience levels with the style of beer they are judging.

One judge might be bad at picking up oxidation and give you 40. The next might think it's heavily oxidised and give you 20.

One judge might have been to Belgium and drank all the best examples of Belgian beers, the next might be going purely off the vague ranges the BJCP uses to cover such beers.

It sucks, but it's reality.


----------



## Hermies

Parks said:


> The biggest change is scores can also be because different judges have different levels of perception to faults and also have different experience levels with the style of beer they are judging.
> 
> One judge might be bad at picking up oxidation and give you 40. The next might think it's heavily oxidised and give you 20.
> 
> One judge might have been to Belgium and drank all the best examples of Belgian beers, the next might be going purely off the vague ranges the BJCP uses to cover such beers.
> 
> It sucks, but it's reality.


And that is why I don't enter comps any more is because of the inconsistencies . I had one beer judged by a reputable accredited BJCP he said it was a solid 40pts . Put it in a comp and it only received average 32pts .


----------



## beachy

Parks said:


> By all means offer constructive criticism, voice your expectations but don't think Bob that works full time and has to get his kids to bed is going to have a week of sleepless nights _*after*_ the comp just to bust out scores of those who didn't place.
> 
> I know someone says it every year but if you want things to be done better - get involved. Make a difference.



If the features of the software that all entries were registered through had been used correctly results would have been available within 24 hrs as they are in every ANHC year now.


----------



## Parks

beachy said:


> If the features of the software that all entries were registered through had been used correctly results would have been available within 24 hrs as they are in every ANHC year now.



By all means tell me more about the software that everyone is using for the first time and let's just "click and hope for the best".


----------



## dibbz

pcqypcqy said:


> in one example (stouts) I can't see how a 44.5 point beer only gets 29.5, and a 40.5 beer only gets 26.5. A few points reduction is fair enough if you've got better judges and better beers to compare against, and maybe freshness is an issue as well. But 15 points doesn't seem right.



The 44.5 point winning stout in QABC was about 3 months old and was effectively the same recipe as the best in show from gcabc which was about 5 months old when judged. Freshness isn't an issue there.


----------



## beachy

Parks said:


> By all means tell me more about the software that everyone is using for the first time and let's just "click and hope for the best".



You want me to explain the process of data entry and scanning to you ?

If there are now 1100 unscanned score sheets to deal with I don't envy the person with that job.


----------



## Parks

No, I want people to understand just because software *can do something* doesn't mean you just set it up, click a button and let it go.

New software (to our comps), new people using it, checks and balances to have plus limited volunteer resources. You don't want to just release scores without sanity checking the results.

And as you say 1100 score sheets to scan (not sure the actual number).


----------



## pcqypcqy

dibbz said:


> The 44.5 point winning stout in QABC was about 3 months old and was effectively the same recipe as the best in show from gcabc which was about 5 months old when judged. Freshness isn't an issue there.



Agreed, that's my point. I can understand anything hoppy struggling with the limited re-brew times for the eastern states and the long trip over, as well as the potential for handling and storage to complicate things. But something like a stout should hold up very well to all of that.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Parks said:


> No, I want people to understand just because software *can do something* doesn't mean you just set it up, click a button and let it go.
> 
> New software (to our comps), new people using it, checks and balances to have plus limited volunteer resources. You don't want to just release scores without sanity checking the results.
> 
> And as you say 1100 score sheets to scan (not sure the actual number).



Hey Parks, putting my hand up now to get involved for next year's QABC on the scoring/data side. Will there be a volunteer portal through the same website again?


----------



## Parks

pcqypcqy said:


> Hey Parks, putting my hand up now to get involved for next year's QABC on the scoring/data side. Will there be a volunteer portal through the same website again?



There will be but I will contact Colin (registrar) and we will arrange that with you directly. The volunteer section is more for the game day lackeys where no real pre-planning or involvement is required on their part.


----------



## Colbatt

Parks said:


> I know someone says it every year but if you want things to be done better - get involved. Make a difference.



I emailed an offer to help get the scoresheets out a week ago but haven't had a response. The offer still stands.


----------



## dibbz

I've heard some reports about aabc but it's second hand coming from me, maybe someone can answer these questions;

How many categories did each table judge and were the paired accordingly? I heard there was 10 tables.
Were the beers sorted and organised for each table to ensure there was no palette issues?
How many beers would the average table of judges have judged?


----------



## kaiserben

NealK said:


> ... but when the organisers can't even be bothered to put them in place order speaks volumes.



If beers are judged at multiple tables (which I assume most categories probably would at Nationals) then the scores don't really show a true order, so putting them in order isn't really appropriate. 

The top few at each table subsequently get judged off against each other to determine the winner and place-getters. 

That's why you'll sometimes see a lower score coming first and a higher score finishing outside the top 3. Different judges at different tables with harsher/easier scoring.


----------



## beachy

kaiserben said:


> If beers are judged at multiple tables (which I assume most categories probably would at Nationals) then the scores don't really show a true order, so putting them in order isn't really appropriate.
> 
> The top few at each table subsequently get judged off against each other to determine the winner and place-getters.
> 
> That's why you'll sometimes see a lower score coming first and a higher score finishing outside the top 3. Different judges at different tables with harsher/easier scoring.



There is no reason to judge across multiple tables when there is a maximum of 21 entries per category.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

So as I break Ocsober out of spite (this is going to cost me $25..) I write the following and apologies in advance to all. Maybe ANHC are watching this thread. I don't want to stoop to this level but I am going to. I don't frequent these forums very often so I'm sorry what I am going to put down. There are other thread topics regarding competitions and one in this forum asking 'have you have entered a home brew competition?', so I write this off topic a little.

Dummy spit.. ::NOW::

I had two entries an IPA and a Cider. The IPA as I taste it now deserved the rating it got. Moving on, but *...

The Cider is no result recorded, did the bottle get picked up with the IPA at the drop off point or what happened throughout to not get served? I don't know and frankly I am not going to waste my time anymore trying to find out. But not being notified that your submission wasn't received/judged is pretty hard one to swallow. It disrespects the process, State representation and those who may have been asking that placed in state comp 4th downward 'WTF, why were there only 10 cider submissions in all of Australia, I could have entered mine?, And before anyone says 'maybe my wife drank it..' it was brewed as a graf and fermented with saison and brettanomyces strains (only joking hunny).

* Back to the IPA and comment about XPA+ hop based / wheat beers needing rebrewing. Yep, especially traveling across the Nullabor Plain to WA where there is some fine weather. If you brewed it again or not, those three days in transit east to west will crush that flavour and aroma anyway in my view. Those are the breaks with an Australian competition and many others probably impacted.. There are approximatley 10 days after finding out if you placed in a State comp to AABC submission date (local state deadline collection) to submit your entries for collection. Lesson learned. I'm gunna have all the beer entry ingredients, all strains of yeast starters at the ready etc etc to make this happen - NOT. Especially in regional Victoria where all you can get is dried yeast, god knows how old the grain is and old oxidised hops with unknown AA%. Only way to do it is to source fresh again from the city, rebrew and then hand deliver it under temperature control. If anyone with a hop forward beer managed to rebrew between the state and country comp then kudos, you deserve all the respect I can give. But IF I did this and then my freshly brewed IPA doesn't make to the table like the cider, I am going to be not pissed but unconscious with this finding.

20+ point spread in results, maybe some granted but as previous mentioned not expected in sound beers. Even if with 21 entries, if split across two tables you would have a baseline beer to standardise the judge scoring between judges, and then the tables 1+2.

The variance to determine a fault e.g. oxidisation as mentioned, I can't see how that amongst all (3?) judges that were writing their comments in confidence prior, then discussing the results. A low score would be totally insulting to those that received it, especially if was a 40+ point prior. Five point spread or seven can't drag a beer that low? It is almost a mercy judge.

Not getting results released in a timely manner has various issues about it. But seriously...

In anticipation of someone shooting a reply - why not get involved? I do. Be it at the minor level to support the weekend at state level, and take the Monday off following as workplace has a zero tolerance of D&A and $10K fine and instant dismissal if positive tested..

Comment 'that's why I don't enter competitions'. This has really got me thinking that too, but if I don't I'm not going to improve as a brewer. Especially this as a sandpit to test recipes and get feedback to maybe one day aspire to be in the industry.

So that is it for me this year. Dummy going back in.

P.S. And as a final, if you would like to sponsor me for Ocsober (not that it makes sense anymore) you can google it and find me as FLYSOBER.

Over and out. Dan


----------



## biggo

Colbatt said:


> I emailed an offer to help get the scoresheets out a week ago but haven't had a response. The offer still stands.


Who did you email I have not seen it?


----------



## biggo

PaleRider said:


> yeah mine went down a few points.... but to be honest I was kind of expecting it given the distance travelled / handling etc....
> When I saw this pic on the AABC facebook last week I was just hoping mine weren't in the grain sacks in the back of the trailer....


This was the clean up the next morning I guarantee this is not how the beers where transported.


----------



## Colbatt

biggo said:


> Who did you email I have not seen it?



On the Comp website http://aabc.westcoastbrewers.com/contact I filled out the form which indicated an email would go to Sean


----------



## biggo

Colbatt said:


> On the Comp website http://aabc.westcoastbrewers.com/contact I filled out the form which indicated an email would go to Sean[
> PM me here seems the software didn't send anything... Yay!


----------



## Colbatt

I've emailed you at [email protected]


----------



## [email protected]_dan

..
So that is it for me this year. Dummy going back in.
..

Well after calming down and sucking on my dummy, I remembered my old facebook account fired it up and PM'd AABC today. Bottle of cider was not received for the record but the IPA was.


----------



## PaleRider

I'm fully expecting the old, "we all have day jobs you know answer", but I'll ask anyway given that it's been 3 weeks.
Any updates on how the score sheets are coming along?


----------



## Dae Tripper

Come on, I got the final bottles of submitted brews to taste with the scoresheets, and the Weizen not going to get any better.


----------



## Codehopper

Dae Tripper said:


> Come on, I got the final bottles of submitted brews to taste with the scoresheets, and the Weizen not going to get any better.


That's IF scoresheets are readable at all, as after any comp there is 50% chance I would spend half an hour trying to decipher the scribbles and then give up. Cheers to the other 50% though!


----------



## Dae Tripper

Codehopper said:


> That's IF scoresheets are readable at all, as after any comp there is 50% chance I would spend half an hour trying to decipher the scribbles and then give up. Cheers to the other 50% though!


That is half the fun, bit like code breaking. Also good to get a deciphering buddy


----------



## biggo

PaleRider said:


> I'm fully expecting the old, "we all have day jobs you know answer", but I'll ask anyway given that it's been 3 weeks.
> Any updates on how the score sheets are coming along?


They are Being scanned and sorted I expect by the end of the week


----------



## biggo

in relation to the www.aabc.org.au website currently being down - I have no answer as this is not run by us but Vicbrew.

All Competition Information is available from www.aabc.westcoastbrewers.com


----------



## MHB

I judge in comps whenever I can, one point I would like to make.
I'm judging the beer in front of me, in the glass, on that day!
I have also entered enough competitions to know the frustration that comes with a score that I think doesn't reflect the beer I entered.
But as a judge, I score that beer in that glass for what it is, not what the brewer thinks it should be,

Every comp I have judged in had a calibration beer and the judges had to agree on each beer within 5 points, at the state (NSW) comp this year I had to resort to calling in the head steward a couple of times. I'm fully aware that we all taste things differently, I know I'm better at some flavours than at others, that it is possible for judges to interpret the style descriptions differently - the point being to try to judge fairly.

Ok maybe judging isn't all it could be, but if you want better judges become one, study up on beer tasting, sit the exam, get involved in local comps - if there aren't any - join a club (start one) organise a comp, even just get some fellow brewers together and learn to taste critically. Its a pretty steep learning curve.
I can also tell you from experience, judging has never been better, I well remember when it was totally subjective, with no style guides, no training... Now that was something worth whinging about, and working to change.
Mark


----------



## Brewman_

MHB said:


> I judge in comps whenever I can, one point I would like to make.
> I'm judging the beer in front of me, in the glass, on that day!
> I have also entered enough competitions to know the frustration that comes with a score that I think doesn't reflect the beer I entered.
> But as a judge, I score that beer in that glass for what it is, not what the brewer thinks it should be,
> 
> Every comp I have judged in had a calibration beer and the judges had to agree on each beer within 5 points, at the state (NSW) comp this year I had to resort to calling in the head steward a couple of times. I'm fully aware that we all taste things differently, I know I'm better at some flavours than at others, that it is possible for judges to interpret the style descriptions differently - the point being to try to judge fairly.
> 
> Ok maybe judging isn't all it could be, but if you want better judges become one, study up on beer tasting, sit the exam, get involved in local comps - if there aren't any - join a club (start one) organise a comp, even just get some fellow brewers together and learn to taste critically. Its a pretty steep learning curve.
> I can also tell you from experience, judging has never been better, I well remember when it was totally subjective, with no style guides, no training... Now that was something worth whinging about, and working to change.
> Mark


Mark and I had this conversation over a cup of coffee last week.

One thing I know for sure having been involved in quite a few competitions in various roles is that the judges, organisers and stewards do their best, and they do a hell of a lot of work. That I could never question.
Further they dedicate their time and in the case of interstate commitments a fair bit of their own cash to do it.

Do I always agree with the judges myself - no. Mostly I do. But I put myself in their seat and say, so what were they thinking? Remember they are blind judging. Then I taste my beer and I take the feed back as one input into the critique, and you know it is unbiased.

I've judged lots of beers myself and I hope I get it pretty right and provide feedback that is helpful.

I take MHB comment that judging has never been better. On that line, a bunch Newcastle guys have been studying their judging certifications, so they will be experienced and qualified BJCP judges. That's what clubs do and that improves judging quality.

My 2c

If you can, get involved.


----------



## Spiesy

[email protected]_dan said:


> Hmm IPA was judged but my cider not listed..


Damn. My schwarz took out 1st place in Victoria and gets last place in the Nationals. Oh well...


----------



## barls

Spiesy said:


> Damn. My schwarz took out 1st place in Victoria and gets last place in the Nationals. Oh well...


same with my lambic and mead.


----------



## biggo

Hi All,
Head to www.aabc.westcoastbrewers.com to view and download your score sheets, Please note that due to limitations of the Software the category titles will display incorrectly


----------



## mondestrunken

Spiesy said:


> Damn. My schwarz took out 1st place in Victoria and gets last place in the Nationals. Oh well...


Yep same thing happened to me last year, it sucks doesn't it!


----------



## mondestrunken

MHB said:


> Ok maybe judging isn't all it could be, but if you want better judges become one, study up on beer tasting, sit the exam, get involved in local comps - if there aren't any - join a club (start one) organise a comp, even just get some fellow brewers together and learn to taste critically. Its a pretty steep learning curve.


I don't know... I like to sit back and let others do the hard work and then complain about it! :-D


----------



## Dae Tripper

Thanks for the score sheets! Valuable information they are!

Cracked open my bottles and tasted with the sheets in front of me and wow. Two beers went significantly downhill since placing in the NSW comp. Weirdly my Munich Dunkel started to taste very sweet, don't know how to fix that yet


----------



## barls

my score sheets were the tick and flick ones and mead ones had 2-3 words per section written on them. i got dinged points for lack of honey aroma and flavour in a dry mead. they have little to no honey aroma and flavour as per the style guidelines.
my feedback was fairly useless.


----------



## kaiserben

I have no right to complain because I got some good results, but 2 of my entries bombed out. Comments in both (Belgian Blonde and Strong Bitter) said they were murky, so I'll put that down to transport/handling.


----------



## 2cranky

so where can i download the results?


----------



## beachy

Dae Tripper said:


> Thanks for the score sheets! Valuable information they are!
> 
> Cracked open my bottles and tasted with the sheets in front of me and wow. Two beers went significantly downhill since placing in the NSW comp. Weirdly my Munich Dunkel started to taste very sweet, don't know how to fix that yet



How many judging sheets do you have for your Dunkel ? 

I only have one and it is contradictory ie beer is both sweet and dry.

Have contacted Biggo via pm to chase up other sheets but no reply yet. Just want to know if it is one or two more and hopefully they will be more useful.


----------



## Dae Tripper

beachy said:


> How many judging sheets do you have for your Dunkel ?
> 
> I only have one and it is contradictory ie beer is both sweet and dry.
> 
> Have contacted Biggo via pm to chase up other sheets but no reply yet. Just want to know if it is one or two more and hopefully they will be more useful.



There is 3 sheets, they are correct. It was very sweet and not as appealing as previously as I was drinking it as I read the sheet.



2cranky said:


> so where can i download the results?


You have to log in at www.aabc.westcoastbrewers.com and where you entries are, on the right you will see a gavel (hammer) and that is the link.


----------



## Colbatt

I have got 2 tick & flick sheets from the same judge for 2 different entries. Maybe one is in relation to my beer but how would I know? I was expecting 3 sheets from 3 judges with quality feedback. None of that so far.


----------



## Colbatt

I also see from the Comp summary that 

a bunch of English beers won the Standard American Beer category
stouts won the German wheat beer category
American IPA's won British Beer
Sours won the Scottish Ale
Belgians won the Irish beer
etc
bloody etc
I despair


----------



## Codehopper

The feedback wasn't worth waiting for.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Are you guys ******* serious? This isn't _every child player gets a prize_. It's the ******* nationals.

This is going to get long, but if I added up all the unjustified moaning in this thread, it will still be shorter...
*
Some anecdotes:*

_My first nats experience:_
I can remember sitting in the shitter at ANHC3 when I was at my first nationals stewarding. I heard two judgy gents come up to the urinals and as they crossed swords they reflected on their day so far. One was having a ball. The other (who's room I was stewarding) reflected on the woeful service he was receiving. Stewards were not up to it. Beers were the wrong temperature. These guys are such ******* amateurs. No shit, mate. It's the Australian Amateur Brewing Competition. Some of these guys started brewing a month ago. They were still so passionate that they bough a plane ticket to Melbourne to come make this shit happen. Don't be such a primadona.

We don't want clowns running our comps, judging them, or stewarding them, but at the end of the day, this is an amateur comp made possible by passionate volunteers of all different levels of skill, experience, time and capabiltiy. It's still on the comp orgnisers to make sure the judges are the best we can get, the stewards are doing the best job they can, and that the results are posted as quickly as possible, but at the end of the day, this shit is extracurricular for _all _of us. No one is a professional amateur brewer.

If you guys keep being whingy bitches about timing, your beer being 'robbed', the quality of your feedback, etc, you may find there's no bodies left to run a nats at all. Legit feedback is fine. Point it at the organisers, though. Moaning on a forum into the ether, when you didn't spring for the flights and hotel and weekend away from the family to help make it happen...that's kinda shitful.
​_Beer brewers have it easy, and hard:_
I watched a rehearsal for the International Barista Awards a couple years back, it blew my mind. You don't send a coffee off in a bottle. You make a coffee. Actually, you make three or four....It's a performance. You have to work hard to get there, but then you have to work _when _you get there. You make that coffee in front of these judges. There's a category which is the swimsuit comp of coffee - the specialty beer of coffee - you have to do some fucked up weird thing that represents you as a barista - and you have to do it then and there. This is not true for brewing competitions. Once you slap that entry number on the beer, it's in the hands of the beer gods.

*You brew a beer the best you can.*
*You package it the best you can.*
*You pack it the best you can*....maybe...or maybe you just hand it to a drop off point and that homebrew shop or whatever may or may not do the best job it can.
*Then the pilot/courier/truckie transports it the best they can*...unless they're a shitbag and don't.
*Then the volunteers at the state that was 'lucky' enough to 'get' nationals receive your beer. They will handle it the best they can. *Accidents may happen. Hopefully few to none. There are potentially 140 entries in play to sort, group, order, chill, present...no shit that if one is lost you might not hear about it...they have about 30 big fish to fry..but they will try. This year we actually got a forewarning about a damaged bottle in transit on the eve of nats and were able to make good on it. We didn't expect that level of detail and focus, but we sure did appreciate it and recognise it was above and beyond. Perth didn't pack our box after all. We did.
*Then the judges get it. *Maybe you have three judges that are more sensitive to a fault in your beer than the folks at state were. Maybe you have one judge that is more sensitive to a fault in your beer and that judge is a verbose, dominant personality who won't relent on their score (there are some, though thankfully rare completely belligerent judges). Maybe the state guys were doing their best but actually didn't know what they were doing. Maybe the state guys were supertaster AF and you managed to get three clowns at nats (highly unlikely). Maybe you had one infected/uncarbonated bottle in your batch and that was the one that you sent to nats. Maybe you should have rebrewed that beer but didn't. Maybe you rebrewed that beer and shouldn't have, or you should have brewed it better. It's almost like there are endless possibilities for you entering a beer into a competition that is entirely subjective...almost? No it's actually that.

*Q&A:*

_Why did I only get two scoresheets? 
_
Well, I might be out of line assuming, but I reckon it's because you only had two judges on your flight. Perth doesn't have 60 qualified judges. In fact, it doesn't have 60 randoms who think they know what tastes better than VB who are now 'judges'. This has happened in the past and it's far worse than having 'just' a couple experienced judges on your beer.

Perth made a good showing. Qualified judges from all across the country travelled to Perth, _at their own expense_ to judge _your _beer. "Thanks fellas. I really appreciate how much effort people in this scene go to to make it count when it matters" is the correct response. You had your beer judged by two BJCP certified judges. Awesome! You only got 35? That's what the trained judges landed on on the day. That's a good score. You only got 19? Something happened. We all know a 19 beer doesn't make it to nationals. We don't think you're a shit brewer, we just think that beer, in front of us today, whether by handling or an accident or by action of brewer....was shit...in isolation. Make it again next year. Get to nats with it. Win champion beer with it. I can't wait to taste it.

_Why do I have this weird tick and flick scoresheet? _

This was the first time I'd judged using this sheet. In some ways it invites more detail than the traditional sheet - the intensity of fault measure is an awesome feature....but at the end of the day, there's no room for war and peace....but you know what? There's no time for war and peace either. I've got 20 speciality IPAs in front of me, I just judged 20 light lagers, and the sun is getting long in the west. I will give these beers the best assessment I can, but this isn't ******* story time. If you want feedback, join a homebrew club and ask that older fella who's been brewing since you were in nappies...or that uni kid who somehow manages to make fantastic beer every time with kit and kilo and a heat belt in a frat cupboard. Or anyone else. Enter a preparatory comp.

Nationals asks a pretty simple question: Is this beer the best representation of its style in Australia? We're not here to tell you you're decent.

This is the level of feedback I get when I enter CBIA awards.





"OMG RIPPED OFF NO DETAIL". Nah they just have a fuckload of entries to judge. Your beer got at least 5 minutes of judging. My beer here was probably lucky to get one minute. It still got judged by palates I respect...and even if I don't....they were the judges and I wasn't.

_Why do I have trouble reading the scrawl on my sheet?_

For me, personally, if you got a sheet from me, sorry. I have this weird retardation where I can't use a pen or pencil legibly. I've had doctors ask me what my secret is. I had my pen licence taken off me twice in two different states. I had to go do a test with this special needs assessment doctor to get a dispensation to use a laptop for my year 12 exams...these days kids use them every day.

But I digress and generalise....As denizens of the 21st century, we're not used to using pens with such intensity. Our hands cramp up. We don't have heaps of time. We are possibly a bit inebriated. Some of us have judged 40 beers by the time we get to yours. Don't like that? Me neither.. Get certified and buy a ******* plane ticket next year.

*Why did my beer score 44 at state and 19 at nationals?*

I have had beers lose tens of points from state to nationals. It sucks, but that's where the judges landed on the day. I have had beers just scrape into nationals and pull a first place when they got there. Cool! Great! I brewed a good beer, but I also had some planets align in about forty ******* solar systems, such is the random complexity of judging beer.

Maybe it was a shit beer. Maybe you got three shit judges (at either nats who robbed you or at state who fooled you). Maybe it had a harder time crossing the central deserts than Burke and Wills. Maybe you should have rebrewed that Hef. Maybe you shouldn't have rebrewed that Koslch, kegged it earlier than you should have, ran it through a filter you didn't own, know or understand (Ok this is me in 2011...live and learn.) Don't hate the judges, hate the game...potentially your game....

Judging. Is. A. Crapshoot.

Grab a beer you think is boss.
Have a sip. "**** yeah this beer is boss"
Then have a mouthful of carbonara. Your significant other makes some killer carbonara. Where's my invite?
Then have another sip. "Oooh it's heaps bitter now. That carbonara really fucked my palate ey?"
Then have a mouthful of jam toast.
Have another sip. "Kinda tastes watery. Is this the same beer? Also why did I follow Carbonara with Jam toast. I am weird."
Have a different beer.
Have another sip. "This beer definitely tastes different now."
Have a coffee.
Have another sip. "This Koslch tastes like water. It's not watery. It actually tastes like water. What a shit kolsch. I can't believe it got to nationals." (as another judge asks why the **** you're drinking coffee during a flight)
Have a berocca.
Have another sip. "Wow I really needed that berocca because there are like max 30 judges here and we're having to do back to back 20 beer flights and the timezone in Perth is four hours behind so I am already zoned out...but shit, that Berocca has really fucked my palate....where's that carbonara?"

_Everyone's _palate is sensitive to the pathway it has trodden. A subtle, young RIS might make the top three at the start of the flight, and a bold three year old might be written off as too brash and one dimensional. Put them at the end of the flight and the former is thin and watery and the latter is _fucccckinnnn siiiiiiick _(because you've had 20 RIS's at this point...we don't spit....we have judged another flight....maybe we should spit....maybe we shouldn't judge two flights...but we can't fix that unless YOU come judge)

AndyD's comment that gravity helps the organisers sort a flight is valid in theory, but I don't think I've ever seen it executed. It should be, but at the end of the day, that's not a 'core duties' task on a compsec. _If _we had a body running this stuff year to year we'd get there, but the existing establishment is resistant to change and improvement and a lack of drive to replace and refresh from any "new guard" means we are where we are.

At the end of the day, the nationals isn't the Melbourne Cup. The fastest horse might come last. Those clever names are but a name*. Any other beer will smell as hoppy...or as infected. It's a subjective comp. 

* for the record, there are some really good puns in beer names going into nats and those who write them should be very proud. If nats was judged on pun quality...you gold medal winners know who you are...

The judges decide which beer is the best in any single flight. There is usually enough balance in a table to call out imbalance, bias, broken palate, preconceived ideas, general beligerence, being shit, being arrogant, etc...but a the end of the day, the judges' subjective opinion, right or wrong, is final. One year you might get fucked on, dropping a beer from 44 to 19. The next you might just scrape in from state and then and pull champion beer with 45....or 50.

We don't judge via a spectrometer. We judge imperfectly made beers, in imperfectly run comps, with imperfect noses and palates.

Imperfect...almost amateur. Funny that. I ******* love the AABC.


----------



## Kodos

Colbatt said:


> I also see from the Comp summary that
> 
> a bunch of English beers won the Standard American Beer category
> stouts won the German wheat beer category
> American IPA's won British Beer
> Sours won the Scottish Ale
> Belgians won the Irish beer
> etc
> bloody etc
> I despair



Did you notice this from the organiser?



biggo said:


> Please note that due to limitations of the Software the category titles will display incorrectly


----------



## barls

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Are you guys ******* serious? This isn't _every child player gets a prize_. It's the ******* nationals.
> 
> This is going to get long, but if I added up all the unjustified moaning in this thread, it will still be shorter...
> *
> Some anecdotes:*
> 
> _My first nats experience:_
> I can remember sitting in the shitter at ANHC3 when I was at my first nationals stewarding. I heard two judgy gents come up to the urinals and as they crossed swords they reflected on their day so far. One was having a ball. The other (who's room I was stewarding) reflected on the woeful service he was receiving. Stewards were not up to it. Beers were the wrong temperature. These guys are such ******* amateurs. No shit, mate. It's the Australian Amateur Brewing Competition. Some of these guys started brewing a month ago. They were still so passionate that they bough a plane ticket to Melbourne to come make this shit happen. Don't be such a primadona.
> 
> We don't want clowns running our comps, judging them, or stewarding them, but at the end of the day, this is an amateur comp made possible by passionate volunteers of all different levels of skill, experience, time and capabiltiy. It's still on the comp orgnisers to make sure the judges are the best we can get, the stewards are doing the best job they can, and that the results are posted as quickly as possible, but at the end of the day, this shit is extracurricular for _all _of us. No one is a professional amateur brewer.
> 
> If you guys keep being whingy bitches about timing, your beer being 'robbed', the quality of your feedback, etc, you may find there's no bodies left to run a nats at all. Legit feedback is fine. Point it at the organisers, though. Moaning on a forum into the ether, when you didn't spring for the flights and hotel and weekend away from the family to help make it happen...that's kinda shitful.
> ​_Beer brewers have it easy, and hard:_
> I watched a rehearsal for the International Barista Awards a couple years back, it blew my mind. You don't send a coffee off in a bottle. You make a coffee. Actually, you make three or four....It's a performance. You have to work hard to get there, but then you have to work _when _you get there. You make that coffee in front of these judges. There's a category which is the swimsuit comp of coffee - the specialty beer of coffee - you have to do some fucked up weird thing that represents you as a barista - and you have to do it then and there. This is not true for brewing competitions. Once you slap that entry number on the beer, it's in the hands of the beer gods.
> 
> *You brew a beer the best you can.*
> *You package it the best you can.*
> *You pack it the best you can*....maybe...or maybe you just hand it to a drop off point and that homebrew shop or whatever may or may not do the best job it can.
> *Then the pilot/courier/truckie transports it the best they can*...unless they're a shitbag and don't.
> *Then the volunteers at the state that was 'lucky' enough to 'get' nationals receive your beer. They will handle it the best they can. *Accidents may happen. Hopefully few to none. There are potentially 140 entries in play to sort, group, order, chill, present...no shit that if one is lost you might not hear about it...they have about 30 big fish to fry..but they will try. This year we actually got a forewarning about a damaged bottle in transit on the eve of nats and were able to make good on it. We didn't expect that level of detail and focus, but we sure did appreciate it and recognise it was above and beyond. Perth didn't pack our box after all. We did.
> *Then the judges get it. *Maybe you have three judges that are more sensitive to a fault in your beer than the folks at state were. Maybe you have one judge that is more sensitive to a fault in your beer and that judge is a verbose, dominant personality who won't relent on their score (there are some, though thankfully rare completely belligerent judges). Maybe the state guys were doing their best but actually didn't know what they were doing. Maybe the state guys were supertaster AF and you managed to get three clowns at nats (highly unlikely). Maybe you had one infected/uncarbonated bottle in your batch and that was the one that you sent to nats. Maybe you should have rebrewed that beer but didn't. Maybe you rebrewed that beer and shouldn't have, or you should have brewed it better. It's almost like there are endless possibilities for you entering a beer into a competition that is entirely subjective...almost? No it's actually that.
> 
> *Q&A:*
> 
> _Why did I only get two scoresheets?
> _
> Well, I might be out of line assuming, but I reckon it's because you only had two judges on your flight. Perth doesn't have 60 qualified judges. In fact, it doesn't have 60 randoms who think they know what tastes better than VB who are now 'judges'. This has happened in the past and it's far worse than having 'just' a couple experienced judges on your beer.
> 
> Perth made a good showing. Qualified judges from all across the country travelled to Perth, _at their own expense_ to judge _your _beer. "Thanks fellas. I really appreciate how much effort people in this scene go to to make it count when it matters" is the correct response. You had your beer judged by two BJCP certified judges. Awesome! You only got 35? That's what the trained judges landed on on the day. That's a good score. You only got 19? Something happened. We all know a 19 beer doesn't make it to nationals. We don't think you're a shit brewer, we just think that beer, in front of us today, whether by handling or an accident or by action of brewer....was shit...in isolation. Make it again next year. Get to nats with it. Win champion beer with it. I can't wait to taste it.
> 
> _Why do I have this weird tick and flick scoresheet? _
> 
> This was the first time I'd judged using this sheet. In some ways it invites more detail than the traditional sheet - the intensity of fault measure is an awesome feature....but at the end of the day, there's no room for war and peace....but you know what? There's no time for war and peace either. I've got 20 speciality IPAs in front of me, I just judged 20 light lagers, and the sun is getting long in the west. I will give these beers the best assessment I can, but this isn't ******* story time. If you want feedback, join a homebrew club and ask that older fella who's been brewing since you were in nappies...or that uni kid who somehow manages to make fantastic beer every time with kit and kilo and a heat belt in a frat cupboard. Or anyone else. Enter a preparatory comp.
> 
> Nationals asks a pretty simple question: Is this beer the best representation of its style in Australia? We're not here to tell you you're decent.
> 
> This is the level of feedback I get when I enter CBIA awards.
> 
> View attachment 109717
> 
> 
> "OMG RIPPED OFF NO DETAIL". Nah they just have a fuckload of entries to judge. Your beer got at least 5 minutes of judging. My beer here was probably lucky to get one minute. It still got judged by palates I respect...and even if I don't....they were the judges and I wasn't.
> 
> _Why do I have trouble reading the scrawl on my sheet?_
> 
> For me, personally, if you got a sheet from me, sorry. I have this weird retardation where I can't use a pen or pencil legibly. I've had doctors ask me what my secret is. I had my pen licence taken off me twice in two different states. I had to go do a test with this special needs assessment doctor to get a dispensation to use a laptop for my year 12 exams...these days kids use them every day.
> 
> But I digress and generalise....As denizens of the 21st century, we're not used to using pens with such intensity. Our hands cramp up. We don't have heaps of time. We are possibly a bit inebriated. Some of us have judged 40 beers by the time we get to yours. Don't like that? Me neither.. Get certified and buy a ******* plane ticket next year.
> 
> *Why did my beer score 44 at state and 19 at nationals?*
> 
> I have had beers lose tens of points from state to nationals. It sucks, but that's where the judges landed on the day. I have had beers just scrape into nationals and pull a first place when they got there. Cool! Great! I brewed a good beer, but I also had some planets align in about forty ******* solar systems, such is the random complexity of judging beer.
> 
> Maybe it was a shit beer. Maybe you got three shit judges (at either nats who robbed you or at state who fooled you). Maybe it had a harder time crossing the central deserts than Burke and Wills. Maybe you should have rebrewed that Hef. Maybe you shouldn't have rebrewed that Koslch, kegged it earlier than you should have, ran it through a filter you didn't own, know or understand (Ok this is me in 2011...live and learn.) Don't hate the judges, hate the game...potentially your game....
> 
> Judging. Is. A. Crapshoot.
> 
> Grab a beer you think is boss.
> Have a sip. "**** yeah this beer is boss"
> Then have a mouthful of carbonara. Your significant other makes some killer carbonara. Where's my invite?
> Then have another sip. "Oooh it's heaps bitter now. That carbonara really fucked my palate ey?"
> Then have a mouthful of jam toast.
> Have another sip. "Kinda tastes watery. Is this the same beer? Also why did I follow Carbonara with Jam toast. I am weird."
> Have a different beer.
> Have another sip. "This beer definitely tastes different now."
> Have a coffee.
> Have another sip. "This Koslch tastes like water. It's not watery. It actually tastes like water. What a shit kolsch. I can't believe it got to nationals." (as another judge asks why the **** you're drinking coffee during a flight)
> Have a berocca.
> Have another sip. "Wow I really needed that berocca because there are like max 30 judges here and we're having to do back to back 20 beer flights and the timezone in Perth is four hours behind so I am already zoned out...but shit, that Berocca has really fucked my palate....where's that carbonara?"
> 
> _Everyone's _palate is sensitive to the pathway it has trodden. A subtle, young RIS might make the top three at the start of the flight, and a bold three year old might be written off as too brash and one dimensional. Put them at the end of the flight and the former is thin and watery and the latter is _fucccckinnnn siiiiiiick _(because you've had 20 RIS's at this point...we don't spit....we have judged another flight....maybe we should spit....maybe we shouldn't judge two flights...but we can't fix that unless YOU come judge)
> 
> AndyD's comment that gravity helps the organisers sort a flight is valid in theory, but I don't think I've ever seen it executed. It should be, but at the end of the day, that's not a 'core duties' task on a compsec. _If _we had a body running this stuff year to year we'd get there, but the existing establishment is resistant to change and improvement and a lack of drive to replace and refresh from any "new guard" means we are where we are.
> 
> At the end of the day, the nationals isn't the Melbourne Cup. The fastest horse might come last. Those clever names are but a name*. Any other beer will smell as hoppy...or as infected. It's a subjective comp.
> 
> * for the record, there are some really good puns in beer names going into nats and those who write them should be very proud. If nats was judged on pun quality...you gold medal winners know who you are...
> 
> The judges decide which beer is the best in any single flight. There is usually enough balance in a table to call out imbalance, bias, broken palate, preconceived ideas, general beligerence, being shit, being arrogant, etc...but a the end of the day, the judges' subjective opinion, right or wrong, is final. One year you might get fucked on, dropping a beer from 44 to 19. The next you might just scrape in from state and then and pull champion beer with 45....or 50.
> 
> We don't judge via a spectrometer. We judge imperfectly made beers, in imperfectly run comps, with imperfect noses and palates.
> 
> Imperfect...almost amateur. Funny that. I ******* love the AABC.


ok going back to my sheets. in the meads the qualified beer judges couldn't be bothered to put down an email address to be contacted and chatted to about their 3 word answers per section. the only one who put down an address was the apprentice judge who i have no problems with. I'm happy to post and name and shame them for such a dismal effort of filling a sheet out but ill refrain.
i know this is an amateur comp but the level of feedback given is crap. as a qualified judge and currently studying to take the mead exam what i received back doesn't match the scores. my lambic has scored over 35 in multiple comps but to get a 27 thats out of place. saying its transport is kinda crap considering the were transported with the few nsw winners in category in the nationals.
i also judged nationals last year and i know i filled the sheets out as per i would any comp with the most detail i can. to get less when i couldn't travel due to work and family is just crap and to sit here and say it doesn't matter, brings me back to the point i made a few years ago when we had the newcastle debacle.we don't enter to win award but to get feed back on the beers we enter. if we get little to no info back its not worth the money we are spending to get there

saying that the wa contingent have done well and good work on a comp well run despite the lack of feed back


----------



## Kodos

Given the high volume of beers to be judged in a limited space of time, the organisers decided to use the tick sheets. They told the judges that given that all the beers had already been through state-level competition they should have already received quality feedback - the priority on the day, given the constraints, wast to identify the best beers.

Not ideal, but it's what we had to work with. The comments might not help a whole lot, in understanding why a beer didn't score as well at Nats as it did in the state comp, but I stand by the beers we selected as first, second and third, and this was always agreed on between the three judges on my two flights. 

I normally fill out all available space in scoresheets, and the margins, but that's when we can spend 10-15 minutes per beer, it just wasn't possible this time. So I - like all the judges I worked with on the day - did the best I could. FWIW my email is on all my scoresheets. I can't guarantee I'll remember the beer specifically after all this time, but I'd happily try to explain my comments further if requested by an entrant.

As far as only having two judges on some tables, I know that in the US comps, it's often only two judges per table (many judges seem to prefer that). It's been the case at Nats and state-level comps before. Given the high volume of entries in most comps these days, I expect to see it more often in Australian comps.

Like Mr No-Tip says, everyone there, at every step, was just trying to do their best. Many of us spent more than $1000 on getting to WA and weekend's accommodation, plus give up a day of work, to spend a solid day judging more than 40 beers. To do this only to get people blasting the judges online for not trying hard enough, hardly seems worth the time and money bothering to help out.

It's no wonder comps struggle to get helpers.


----------



## [email protected]_dan

Well I don't know what mind altering substance I am on (other than beer) but I clearly recall no result listed in the full summary, a conversation saying the bottle was not judged.. and as a surprise I log on today and find result sheets. WTF is going on?  I look like a dick.


----------



## MartinOC

Hey guys. Loosen the ****-up!!

The solution to all your bleating/problems is dead simple: Leave it to the Vicbrew committee in future. 

We know what we're doing & why/how. A group of hard-core homebrewing nutters with well over 100 years of brewing experience between us. Multiple BJCP qualified members (I'm not one. 'Can't be arsed getting the qualification, despite judging all the way back to 1985. I'm "just" Chief Steward), so the knowledge is there.

Vicbrew is probably the slickest-run competition in the country & whenever we do the Nationals/ANHC as well as Vicbrew in the same year, it's smoother than baby-poo. All run by the same core of operators. Can anyone else say the same thing?

We have fun (anyone who's seen me do multiple T-shirt changes, then question the sobriety of the judges when they notice it will know)

It's an amateur brewing competition, right? 

Did someone suddenly delete "FUN" & "BEER" from the agenda??????


----------



## MHB

I'm sure the Vic Comp goes as smooth as goose poo (or at least Victorians think so), I wouldn't like to see any comp locked into a permanent home.
Moving comps around gives more people a chance to up-skill, either as judging, stewarding or comp organisation, more skilled people means we end up with better comps, feedback and hopefully brewers - it wont happen overnight...
Ok in the short term there will be some ups and downs but people learn by doing.
Mark


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

MartinOC said:


> The solution to all your bleating/problems is dead simple: Leave it to the Vicbrew committee in future.



As soon as you stop with the whole "jug" thing.


----------



## moonhead

barls said:


> ok going back to my sheets. in the meads the qualified beer judges couldn't be bothered to put down an email address to be contacted and chatted to about their 3 word answers per section. the only one who put down an address was the apprentice judge who i have no problems with. I'm happy to post and name and shame them for such a dismal effort of filling a sheet out but ill refrain.
> i know this is an amateur comp but the level of feedback given is crap. as a qualified judge and currently studying to take the mead exam what i received back doesn't match the scores. my lambic has scored over 35 in multiple comps but to get a 27 thats out of place. saying its transport is kinda crap considering the were transported with the few nsw winners in category in the nationals.
> i also judged nationals last year and i know i filled the sheets out as per i would any comp with the most detail i can. to get less when i couldn't travel due to work and family is just crap and to sit here and say it doesn't matter, brings me back to the point i made a few years ago when we had the newcastle debacle.we don't enter to win award but to get feed back on the beers we enter. if we get little to no info back its not worth the money we are spending to get there
> 
> saying that the wa contingent have done well and good work on a comp well run despite the lack of feed back




To be honest, with the response I'm seeing here, I wouldn't have put down my email address if I was judging, either. Don't think I'd be too happy giving up my time, and possibly paying my way to the other side of the country, just to have my work belittled and questioned by people that weren't there.

Not calling out anyone in particular, just the whole vibe of this thread seems to be quite disrespectful to the judges and organisers. If you want to encourage better feedback and organisation, you need to make a good, supportive environment for people to step up. Right now, the response seems to do nothing more than discourage people from getting involved.


----------



## MartinOC

Mr. No-Tip said:


> As soon as you stop with the whole "jug" thing.


Wot?? You mean change a tried & tested system that's been working flawlessly for over 20 years? Yeah, right, I can see the merit in that

Perhaps you'd like Kolsch to be served in a tall, straight-sided glass, Belgian strong ales in an open Chalice, English Ordinary Bitter in a pint glass, meads in a tulip? Etc....etc...etc....yawn!

I've heard all these requests/suggestions/feedback (and MORE!!) from judges over the past 20+ years who are nothing but unmitigated wankers & think that the beer world revolves around them just 'cos they've got a BJCP badge.

Judge the beer in front of you in the plastic cup it's presented-in & use your ******* senses to evaluate it (or did you learn nothing in your BJCP learning-curve?).

Stepping-off the soap-box now. Apologies if I've pissed-off anyone with a "Badge".


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

MartinOC said:


> Perhaps you'd like Kolsch to be served in a tall, straight-sided glass, Belgian strong ales in an open Chalice, English Ordinary Bitter in a pint glass, meads in a tulip? Etc....etc...etc....yawn!



I was more having a slight laugh (hopefully with you, seemingly not) about the divergent specifics that different groups might put to into a comp...

...but, seeing as we went there, one man’s goose or baby shit could be another’s horse shit...

No, I don’t think anyone has suggested specific glassware, but I do firmly believe that plastic taints the judging process. Flavour and aroma is unlikely but visual impact on clarity and colour appropriateness is not unusual. Can be avoided. Often it is not.

Jugs confused me the first time I was involved a Vicbrew comp. well before I “had a badge”. They are far more susceptible to sloppy stewarding - when we go from bottle to glass it’s obvious if a steward got a bit excited at the end of a bottle conditioned beer - in a jug we have to engage at best, assume at worst who’s fault those floaties are.

The double pour action from bottle to jug and jug to glass IS having a tangible effect on aroma and carbonation. Arguable that the final flight order may be the same - though it’s quite possible that some pleasant hop or ester compounds may be more volatile than others and therefore a more sensitive beer may not have had its chance to shine in a double pour - but even if we assume the same flight order because the jug curtailed aroma evenly, were curtailing scores as a result. That aroma focussed beer might miss out on BOS due to it “not quite getting there” against a really clean neutral beer, or a malt focussed beer.

The other item that I’ve observed out of the very efficient Vicbrew crew that shows there’s always room for improvement was the (as I recall) rather out of the blue banning of champagne bottles. I completely understand the logic, but given the correlation with “special” beers that may often be aged, it’s not fair to spring that on a cohort in season. Like 330ml bottles have been, it should be phased out over time with plenty of notice.

So on that note...Will nats in Melbourne next year be accepting champagne bottles from other states next year? If not, you’d better shout that from the roof tops (and put it visibly on the AABC website) right now. Before comp season 2018 starts.

So finally the website, Vicbrew “own” the AABC website right? Running a comp is more than just what happens on the day. There have been multiple offers of skill from other groups to help with modernising the website, working with developers to get the AABC style guidelines available in app on phone. Initially these were ignored. Then (maybe two years later?) they were accepted with no follow through. For my part, those offers are now expired through changing life and exhaustion of head/brick wall blends.

At this point in time, the style guideline links still point to someone’s C drive, as they have all year.

VicBrew runs a tight comp, but like you say, this is an amateur comp. Done by volunteers in their spare time. That’s my whole point.

There’s always room for improvement and sometimes that’s out of reasonable reach. There is an argument that vic’s lead and experience would place them well to “just own it”. But as MHB says there’s arguments against too.

A new reason, just exposed today is that if you guys come in with a belligerent “we know what we’re doing coz we’re pros, cram your suggestions you don’t know which way is up”
you will alienate all other states. If it did happen, we would expect that pro claim to flow through to all aspects of the comp. That doesn’t exist now. You won’t get national buy in with this attitude.

I’m looking forward to the comp in Melbourne next year. You guys know how to make it roll on the day, and that’s in a large way down to your chief stewarding, Martin.

I’m also Looking forward to reps from other states coming down and seeing what they can take home for when they might run nats in 2019.


----------



## MartinOC

Just want to acknowledge your response right now. Thank you. A bit too much to respond-to after too-little sleep & a few too-many beers....


----------



## biggo

MartinOC said:


> Hey guys. Loosen the ****-up!!
> 
> The solution to all your bleating/problems is dead simple: Leave it to the Vicbrew committee in future.
> 
> We know what we're doing & why/how. A group of hard-core homebrewing nutters with well over 100 years of brewing experience between us. Multiple BJCP qualified members (I'm not one. 'Can't be arsed getting the qualification, despite judging all the way back to 1985. I'm "just" Chief Steward), so the knowledge is there.
> 
> Vicbrew is probably the slickest-run competition in the country & whenever we do the Nationals/ANHC as well as Vicbrew in the same year, it's smoother than baby-poo. All run by the same core of operators. Can anyone else say the same thing?
> 
> We have fun (anyone who's seen me do multiple T-shirt changes, then question the sobriety of the judges when they notice it will know)
> 
> It's an amateur brewing competition, right?
> 
> Did someone suddenly delete "FUN" & "BEER" from the agenda??????



If Vicbrew do run "fantastic comps" then why when I asked for a Hand over from previous years from the AABA/AABC I was provided with Literally nothing and don't get me started on www.AABC.org.au.


I see Three options for the Future 

1. VICBREW loosens its grip on this competition and a new AABA type Committee is formed with sole ownership of this competition and no clubs are involved only people. We are large enough now for Australia to have an actual committee and not just a small group of people who have never been voted into these potions.

2. Another competition is started and AABA Delegates move on, everyone myself included.

3. More Volunteers

Also my personal opinion is that AABC guidelines are scrapped and we default to BJCP. I suggest we can also communicate with the BJCP to have the addition of Australian Styles to the BJCP guidelines


At the end of the day thanks to everyone that has helped/Volunteered their time for this comp you know who you are.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

MartinOC said:


> Just want to acknowledge your response right now. Thank you. A bit too much to respond-to after too-little sleep & a few too-many beers....



Cheers.

Happy to continue over PM if you think best. We are both after the same end game.


----------



## barls

moonhead said:


> To be honest, with the response I'm seeing here, I wouldn't have put down my email address if I was judging, either. Don't think I'd be too happy giving up my time, and possibly paying my way to the other side of the country, just to have my work belittled and questioned by people that weren't there.
> 
> Not calling out anyone in particular, just the whole vibe of this thread seems to be quite disrespectful to the judges and organisers. If you want to encourage better feedback and organisation, you need to make a good, supportive environment for people to step up. Right now, the response seems to do nothing more than discourage people from getting involved.


the sheets i got back are very basic and after having another judge look at them he agrees with me there is nothing on them to mark how they came up with the scores as everything they marked down on the lambic makes it a 50 point beer.
i was involved in the judging at state level and if it had of been closer and me not having so little leave/ money i probably would of been there.
ill be at the nationals next year hopefully as one of australis few mead qualified judges.
for the record i always put down my email address as i wan people to contact me and ask questions.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

biggo said:


> Also my personal opinion is that AABC guidelines are scrapped and we default to BJCP. I suggest we can also communicate with the BJCP to have the addition of Australian Styles to the BJCP guidelines



Sean, my man. Well said. I just reread this after a few hours to digest and take a deep breath. You are 100% right.

We have a cohort of 'comp make go now' guys that I respect no end. Many/most are VicBrew. They helped build AABC. I suspect they laid a foundation for ANHC. They are the only reason we have any BJCP certification now...but let's move with the times.

My last post was pretty huffity puffity (that's pleasant day care dad code for '****'.)

...ps...I'm a childless, relatively young man, and I've never used the term "huffity puffity" before until being bolschy here on AHB, but my posts, in retrospect seem more Oscar the Grouch than Hoots the Owl, so let's clear it up...I am after mad end game - a functional, semi-professional 'amateur' brewing comp...so if making old man statements like 'huffitiy puffity’ are the key, then count me in. If not, just read everything I am trying to say.

I had the amazing honour of winning national champ through the skilled randomness of an AABC comp a few years back. I know I brewed many fantastic beers, but so did a gang of others, it's just the comp sheets went my way, The following year I kinda quit but entered some "last year beers" (some in champagne bottles) and still wowed the random, lucky chance cacophany of judges to a very firm place. Cool. Exciting. The system works. Except judging IS a crapshoot. We need to work on everything EXCEPT the beer to minimise that...

The lack of numbers volunteering or travelling means you won't get good feedback, three judges, or much else. Every interstater that can't or won't get to nats will be replaced with, at best a new homebrewer who's been getting into judging , at worst some bar owner/journo/strip club owner who has that one craft beer/ twat who is 'mister beer in their sphere'. Hopefully the compromise is two judges....maybe....

Sometimes you might get a fair hearing. Sometimes, that IPA you make is just what they're after. Other times, your madonna lily saison (basically a saison...but you want it to be purchased and left in the dark corner of every house in Australia to ultimate neglect) ....not cutting it. Is it the beer or judge calibre? Who knows.

Sooooo back to one of Sean's most important suggestions...the 'get the **** over it' factor required for the AABC guidelines'...I think BJCP should recognise a little bit more of our antipodean contribution.. but the presence of sparkling ale is a step in the right direction. Our own AABC would have worked if we'd properly executed style guidelines..but we didn't ...so we shouldn't. Let's focus on getting the right emergent styles on with the (Detailed) BJCP instead.

Don't agree? AABC Light Aussie Lager's style G's are 135 words. Australian Premium Lager is 115.A cal common is 315 words. An APA is 390. It's so hard to judge these "back of a hankie" style guidelines, so let's work as a group to get some pros here helping to get our unique styles into the BJCP!

All these uniquely Australian lagers (sparkling is now BJCP certified) do deserve recognition, but the manner in which they have been recognised to date is a less than appropriate approach.

Sean is right. All of the old school need to step back (and maybe re-volunteer - because we know this scene lives and dies on the minority) but it's UNDENIABLE that a fresh blood is required for standards and execution when it comes to AABC comps. Please.


----------



## MCHammo

I don't think any of our other local styles are about to be incorporated into the BJCP any time soon. But have you noticed the appendix at the end of the guidelines with other local styles? (Argentinian and Italian styles) does anyone know - hypothetically - what it would take to have our other beers not covered by BJCP added in there?


----------



## moonhead

MCHammo said:


> I don't think any of our other local styles are about to be incorporated into the BJCP any time soon. But have you noticed the appendix at the end of the guidelines with other local styles? (Argentinian and Italian styles) does anyone know - hypothetically - what it would take to have our other beers not covered by BJCP added in there?



That's probably the way to go. Even if BJCP don't get on board, just make the AABC guidelines a facsimile of the BJCP ones, with addendums for the Aussie specific styles. That way everyone can work towards the same standard, for all styles, except the specific ones we want to do.


----------



## moonhead

Mr. No-Tip said:


> So finally the website, Vicbrew “own” the AABC website right? Running a comp is more than just what happens on the day. There have been multiple offers of skill from other groups to help with modernising the website, working with developers to get the AABC style guidelines available in app on phone. Initially these were ignored. Then (maybe two years later?) they were accepted with no follow through. For my part, those offers are now expired through changing life and exhaustion of head/brick wall blends.



As a fellow Victorian and homebrewer, I am ashamed of the Vicbrew and AABC websites... Surely amongst all the volunteers that help out, we can scrounge up enough talent to do better than this. (Yes, I will volunteer if wanted)


----------



## GalBrew

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Sean is right. All of the old school need to step back (and maybe re-volunteer - because we know this scene lives and dies on the minority) but it's UNDENIABLE that a fresh blood is required for standards and execution when it comes to AABC comps. Please.



I fully agree that there is always room for improvements and also that new blood is essential for this thing to continue into the future in a healthy fashion. However if the ‘old guard’ stepped back who who would actually do the work and run the comps? 

(I am not one of the ‘old guard’ by the way). 

Another issue that I see is there is very little redundancy in terms of the number of people who know how to run these big comps. All it would take is a couple of select people (in Vic at least) to be hit by the proverbial bus and that would be it.


----------



## pcqypcqy

This has gotten quite feisty. My two cents prior to unwatching this thead.

As an entrant who wasn't involved in running the comp itself, yes, I wish I'd gotten a bit more direct feedback on my beer.

However, as many have pointed out, 40 beers to be judged, it's hard work on the day, there's lots to do, so I'm not very worried about it and am happy knowing that I had a beer good enough to make it to AABC. Kudos to all who put effort in to make the comps happen.

One upshot of all the discussion here is that I'll definitely be making the time to get involved in QABC next year in the organisation and data side of things, and trying to make sure my club (TooSOBA) also gets a rep on the committee to assist as well.


----------



## Codehopper

I guess the main question is what is the purpose of the national comp (or any, for that matter). If it's just to recognize the winners, I'm ok with that, but let's just pronounce it out loud, and good luck looking for entries.

Another purpose might be to tick the box against the question like "is there active homebrewers association in Australia?". So, ok, there is, comps are conducted, box ticked.

People wrote here in the thread, like, "if you disrespect us judges we won't do it anymore, and there wouldn't be a next comp". Well, my personal experience from this comp is that spent $50 on entry&shipping and got no feedback. If there was no comp, I'd have been $50 better of. 

So here's my point: if the purpose of the national comp is officially one of the two above, I'm gonna ignore it next year and stop at the state level even if I qualify (I did it last two years so hopefully I'm doing something right in addition to just being lucky). I may be unique with my motivations, but I participate in the comps to get feedback (however brutal) and become a better brewer.

I mean, if it's expected that judges are going to be overworked and not be able to provide a decent feedback, maybe it is better to call it of, or give people a heads-up?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

GalBrew said:


> I fully agree that there is always room for improvements and also that new blood is essential for this thing to continue into the future in a healthy fashion. However if the ‘old guard’ stepped back who who would actually do the work and run the comps?
> 
> (I am not one of the ‘old guard’ by the way).
> 
> Another issue that I see is there is very little redundancy in terms of the number of people who know how to run these big comps. All it would take is a couple of select people (in Vic at least) to be hit by the proverbial bus and that would be it.



Yep, you are right. I was hinting that way above but maybe I wasn’t clear. To be a little clearer, I am not saying that everyone who’s worked on AABC need to step back and go away. Not at all. 

I am saying they need to step back and let a truly national organisation form and let the people who have big ideas run with them. They could, should and will hopefully be willing to contribute to this.


----------



## biggo

Codehopper said:


> I guess the main question is what is the purpose of the national comp (or any, for that matter). If it's just to recognize the winners, I'm ok with that, but let's just pronounce it out loud, and good luck looking for entries.
> 
> Another purpose might be to tick the box against the question like "is there active homebrewers association in Australia?". So, ok, there is, comps are conducted, box ticked.
> 
> People wrote here in the thread, like, "if you disrespect us judges we won't do it anymore, and there wouldn't be a next comp". Well, my personal experience from this comp is that spent $50 on entry&shipping and got no feedback. If there was no comp, I'd have been $50 better of.
> 
> So here's my point: if the purpose of the national comp is officially one of the two above, I'm gonna ignore it next year and stop at the state level even if I qualify (I did it last two years so hopefully I'm doing something right in addition to just being lucky). I may be unique with my motivations, but I participate in the comps to get feedback (however brutal) and become a better brewer.
> 
> I mean, if it's expected that judges are going to be overworked and not be able to provide a decent feedback, maybe it is better to call it of, or give people a heads-up?



Hi Codehopper,

My advice to all comps was to collate all entries into one shipment and have the state comp sort out the shipping cost rather than charge individuals (WA, QLD, ACT and SA) I am not to sure where you are located so I am not to sure how much that would save you. As you know the State Competitions feed into the Nationals and as we are a large country it is beneficial for the State comps the ship all beers together from a cost and quality standpoint. 

There has been some talk/meetings in the area of an Official National "Homebrewers association in Australia" it will require an extensive amount of work from a lot of people across the country I believe this is the best option to move forward in Australia. 

To comment on the score sheet discussion, we had 32 Judges (Normal Nats is 60) with all tables assigned an experienced judge. Judges where provided the Beer Checklist scoresheet along with the checklist instructions and the beer faults troubleshooter, as this was the second Competition in the series and we were down on judge numbers I decided that this was required for us to complete the judging within the allotted time. I can only thank the Judges,Stewards and Staff for the enormous time and effort that was put in to have this all completed on the same day. 
In hindsight there are plenty of things I would have done differently. 

I also agree with Kevin 


Mr. No-Tip said:


> I am not saying that everyone who’s worked on AABC need to step back and go away. Not at all.
> 
> I am saying they need to step back and let a truly national organisation form and let the people who have big ideas run with them. They could, should and will hopefully be willing to contribute to this.


----------



## Zeak

The AABC FB page indicates that placed entries will be contacted soon via email, I've not received anything yet,has anyone been contacted?


----------



## winkle

I think what we can takeaway from this is that the organisers of future AABC's need to start planning much earlier and ensure that the comp is properly resourced in the future. (ie *more judges* with at least one BJCP qualified judge per table, & *give them more time on each beer *so the feedback is quality). Otherwise the whole thing verges on being pointless. And yes, please adopt the BJCP so we all are on the same page.


----------



## MartinOC

Stick your hand up to be involved to evoke the changes required...


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## winkle

MartinOC said:


> Stick your hand up to be involved to evoke the changes required...


Happy to, however it'll be best being driven by some of the better resourced clubs (like the one I'm in).


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## MartinOC

winkle said:


> Happy to, however it'll be best being driven by some of the better resourced clubs (like the one I'm in).


Mate, that comes across as nothing but a cop-out.

I believe the expression "Put-up or shut-up" is the appropriate Aussie vernacular here....


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## kaiserben

Zeak said:


> The AABC FB page indicates that placed entries will be contacted soon via email, I've not received anything yet,has anyone been contacted?



Nothing yet.


----------



## stewy

..


----------



## MHB

This address?


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## manticle

MHB said:


> I judge in comps whenever I can, one point I would like to make.
> I'm judging the beer in front of me, in the glass, on that day!
> I have also entered enough competitions to know the frustration that comes with a score that I think doesn't reflect the beer I entered.
> But as a judge, I score that beer in that glass for what it is, not what the brewer thinks it should be,
> 
> Every comp I have judged in had a calibration beer and the judges had to agree on each beer within 5 points, at the state (NSW) comp this year I had to resort to calling in the head steward a couple of times. I'm fully aware that we all taste things differently, I know I'm better at some flavours than at others, that it is possible for judges to interpret the style descriptions differently - the point being to try to judge fairly.
> 
> Ok maybe judging isn't all it could be, but if you want better judges become one, study up on beer tasting, sit the exam, get involved in local comps - if there aren't any - join a club (start one) organise a comp, even just get some fellow brewers together and learn to taste critically. Its a pretty steep learning curve.
> I can also tell you from experience, judging has never been better, I well remember when it was totally subjective, with no style guides, no training... Now that was something worth whinging about, and working to change.
> Mark


Late to the party but spot on.


----------



## manticle

Having said that and read mr no tip’s posts as well as many critical responses - judges do have a responsibility, under bjcp guidlines to offer meaningful, legibly written feedback. I know (not judged nats but judged most vic comps more than once and a tas state comp, bjcp certified) that it ain’t easy but not being easy ain’t an excuse. Do your best, whether competitor or judge. Strive, always to do better.


----------



## Hermies

And that is why I haven't had a beer in any competition for nearly 10yrs . I did enter my beer in the Vicbrew comp and got 5th place it was a red IPA one judge wrote "Mild ,Caramel and Fruity Hops , nothing particularly stands out " and another judge wrote " medium fruity aroma no malt aroma " So tell me why I should enter comps when I get crap like this written for an American IPA and I only entered it for the club as over the past few years entries had been dwindling .

PS : The then club president said it was a strong 42 pointer . You do know the club president that I am talking about Manticle .


----------



## manticle

I've only really known one club president because I've only belonged to (and been actively involved with) one club. However it's a bit much to use feedback from 'nearly 10 years ago' as a reason to be critical of the currently run national comp, don't you think?

First time I got in the nats, I got rubbish feedback too (beers did ok, no complaints) but that has no bearing on 2017 besides me understanding that judges have a responsibility to offer the best feedback they can to all competitors. Hell, some of my best scoring beers (eg. 42+, vicbrew) had the least feedback and while I happily accepted the win, I expected more. As a judge I expect more from myself.


----------



## Hermies

Sorry I should have put a date in .It was this years Vic Comp . The point I was making is that the feedback hasn't changed .It is only because that this person is well qualified as a BJCP and gave it a good appraisel that I put it into this years Vic comp . Over the last few months the club has been tasting different members beer and through the guidence of our old club president giving better feedback on what we taste see and smell and that is what is lacking in the judging . Yeah aint it a bitch when you get a score like that and the judges write even less . My point again they are not writing what they taste , smell and see they're only going by what the style suggests .


----------



## manticle

I agree that many judges need to step up their game. BJCP qualification should mean more effort is made, rather than less.

Not necessarily comp organiser's fault (actually not at all) but if you're going to make the effort to judge, actually make the effort.

Written as someone who has experienced trying to articulate himself on a scoresheet after the 24th belgian strong ale that morning.


----------



## pcqypcqy

MartinOC said:


> Mate, that comes across as nothing but a cop-out.
> 
> I believe the expression "Put-up or shut-up" is the appropriate Aussie vernacular here....



With a warm inviting attitude like that, it's hard to imagine why more people don't get involved.

The bloke was volunteering the services of his club to get involved and assist with the next one. If you shoot everyone done who volunteers, no wonder you / your club is the only one who has to organise everything.

I know winkle and he's in one of the bigger Brisbane clubs, and he means what he says. It's better if his club gets involved as a unit rather than just him by himself.


----------



## MartinOC

pcqypcqy said:


> With a warm inviting attitude like that, it's hard to imagine why more people don't get involved.
> 
> The bloke was volunteering the services of his club to get involved and assist with the next one. If you shoot everyone done who volunteers, no wonder you / your club is the only one who has to organise everything.
> 
> I know winkle and he's in one of the bigger Brisbane clubs, and he means what he says. It's better if his club gets involved as a unit rather than just him by himself.


OK, fair enough. With a re-read, it seems I mis-interpreted his post.

If you'll forgive me, I get kinda jack with the keyboard warriors around here that are full of criticism & deep wisdom on how things should be run, but have never actually got up from their computer to volunteer or DO something. This kinda thing needs DOERS, not effete idealists who think that humping multiple crates full of beer up & down multiple flights of stairs is below them.

If a club can get their members organised to provide facilities & bodies to get the job done, I absolutely agree that it's probably better than calling for disparate individuals who may or may not turn-up when the task needs it.


----------



## manticle

Take what is critical useful feedback Martin (which some of it is) and ignore all that isn’t. Comps are a big, multiple person effort to get off the ground, honest feedback helps make every one better than the last.


----------



## MartinOC

Folks,

Can we take a step-back & a collective deep breath before moving-on with this conversation?

Yeah, I can be a bit feisty & opinionated at times, but mostly, if I was any more laid-back, I'd be in a coma - except when I'm involved in trying to get the Vicbrew competition to a conclusion on time. That's my role as Chief Steward & I stand on the shoulders of giants (the rest of the Committee) who have put-in the hard-yards to get it to that point. I'm just the mouthy git who stands up on the day & makes it look like he's in control (Nobody should try checking my pulse-rate & adrenaline-levels on the Saturday morning!).

For the record, I'm NOT on the AABC Committee, which is essentially an email-group that only meets in person once a year. A spot was offered to me, but I declined, based on anecdotal feedback from a couple of the Vicbrew Committee who are also on the National Committee. Bun-fight. Not interested. My only involvement in the AABC is when it's held in Victoria & I'm happy to do WHATEVER it takes to get the job done.

The efficacy of the National competition in any particular year seems to depend on the ability of the local (ie. State) organising body to get themselves sorted-out. I can assure you that the Victorian organising Committee (Vicbrew) is a well-oiled machine that's been at it for ages. We all know each other personally, respect each other, meet in person, thrash-out issues over a few bevvies & occasionally agree to disagree. It's a system that works. Other state bodies seem less well-organised/cooperative.

If we can get a properly cooperative National committee that seeks & delegates the same efficiency to other states when hosting the Nationals (if it needs to be via a single club-based organisation, then all well & good), you'll get no bleating, moaning or keyboard-warrioring from me.

A committee & its delegates needs to be COMMITTED and ultimately held responsible for the outcome.


----------



## kaiserben

Zeak said:


> The AABC FB page indicates that placed entries will be contacted soon via email, I've not received anything yet,has anyone been contacted?



Got an email overnight.


----------



## MattC

Just wondering if anyone had received their medals for placing in the AABC Comp? I got an email that said they would be posted out late Jan, but as yet, I have not received anything. Just wondering if everyone else is in the same boat or mine may have been lost in the post?


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## kaiserben

Nothing here either. 

Except the yeast packs from Lallemand.


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## HoppyDays

No just the yeast so far


----------



## bingggo

I only just discovered the email about the medals, so sent a reply asking for an update as I haven't received one.

Has anyone tried AABC central, or have a recent response on the medals?


----------



## bvandenderen

Wow, my first ever post (I think) and I've been a member for yonks (2009) and brewer for yonkser (1989)

Martin take a chill pill lovey, although most of what you say is spot on. 
Everyone else listen to Martin.

We need people on the ground and a much improved AABC committee, strategy etc. I would like all of you posters to just sit back and relax (and enjoy a homebrew......) and consider where the US homebrew scene was thirty years ago. Basically, 50 years ahead of us, and we sit here bitching. I know we had pioneers too, and some of them are still around doing the gruntwork. So I suggest to the vast majority of complainers out there, poor judging sheets are currently and occasionally part of the system at the moment despite the badge (and I am guilty I'm sure). You need to keep training and judging and brewing. Or we can change it. Step up and build the culture you want, just get away from the screen and engage people

Right. Where the flock are the AABC and the WA committee. I want my yeast at least, and any other booty coming my way.

Does anyone know what has happened to the AABC 2017 prizes, communication etc?? I replied to the email in December (?) and have heard nothing.

Cheers
Bryce
dont even know if I have an appropriate handle


----------



## kaiserben

My nominated brew shop (National Home Brew) just contacted me to let me know they'd been emailed by the Comp organisers weeks ago about prizes, replied to that email, but then not had a response since. 

So they (NHB) have now gone ahead and donated a prize to me, which is very good of them. 

Medals would be great, but I've given up contacting the comp organisers and have no realistic hope that anything more will come of it. 





bvandenderen said:


> I want my yeast at least



Email the guy from Lallemand that would've been on the yeast order form that was sent out. He's the one that'll sort that for you. I'll PM his address to you in a moment.


----------



## bingggo

I did get an enigmatic friendly reply from the West Coast Brewer's Facebook account that medals would be out in a week or two, and vouchers have been ordered... the Lallemand guy sent me the yeasts last week, a day or two after I got around to asking for them - very nice guy.


----------



## Zeak

I'm a passionate homebrewer that was fortunate to place, I'm thankful for the constructive feedback provided by all those busy judges last year, the feedback I'll use to improve this year hopefully., This may be a vain request but I was just wondering if anyone received their medals yet? I'd love some physical bragging rights to show my mates, does it usually take this long? or do I get the medal in October 2018 at ANHC?

This may be a normal thing, sorry as i'm not sure, I just thought I'd ask, it my be just a "WA time" thing.


----------



## bingggo

I got another enigmatic post from the West Coast Brewer's saying the 'organiser' was being pushed, vouchers were being organized, WBC had no idea about medals. I am going to email AABC to enquire what they are going to do about it.


----------



## Hopkins

There will be an email going out to all winners shortly explaining where things are at and how the situation is planned to be fixed once and for all.


----------



## Brewmaster Josh

Could this be the longest single discussion thread in the history of forums? It's older than my son.


----------



## bingggo

...


----------



## Bogan333

Any idea when we can start to register our entries on http://www.aabc.org.au/


----------



## n87

Bogan333 said:


> Any idea when we can start to register our entries on http://www.aabc.org.au/



It looks like entries are open.


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## nathanvonbeerenstein

Anyone else unable to print labels for their entries?


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## n87

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Anyone else unable to print labels for their entries?


I was able to print yesterday, but you have to pay first.


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## fdsaasdf

I just entered and downloaded my labels ok


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## EalingDrop

When you login, does it show up? I'm on the website now and there's nothing registered for me to enter? 

I don't know if I've registered before so I might have multiple accounts. Thought they were emailing us about the steps to enter into the Nationals?


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## EalingDrop

I'm an idiot. Found it.


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## ShonkytonkBrewer

If you haven't used Compmaster before you will need to create an account.

Once you are logged in;
Hover over "Select a Competition"
Select "...from open competitions"
Select "AABC2018"
Click on "Enter AABC2018 now"

fill in all your brews details.

When you get to the end you will get options to Confirm and Pay, or Confirm and Pay later

If you have more than one entry choose the pay later option and add your other entries.

Once you have paid you can print off the label to stick to your bottle.

Hope this helps


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## n87

It seems noone has mentioned it here so I will.

Entries need to be registered by the 7th, this Sunday


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## nvs-brews

WA entries are on the way I believe. When is judging?


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## Black n Tan

The AABC will be held 25 October in Melbourne. The winners will be announced at the Bintani AABC Awards and ANHC Welcome Party (tickets available here https://www.anhc.com.au)


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## nvs-brews

ah ha.. I managed to get 2 in. Very doubtful any will medal this year.


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## ShonkytonkBrewer

Given that Compmaster had the ability to get results out straight away. Will the result be available on Compmaster before the awards night....

Just in case a winner wants to make a last minute attendance to collect in person


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## Black n Tan

No the result will not be on Compmaster prior to the awards night. Where would the suspense be if you already knew the result. You shouldn't need an excuse to come to the ANHC Welcome Party as it will be a great night in itself, but if I had a beer in the AABC I would make an effort to get to the event.


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## nvs-brews

Yeah would love to come. I know a few of the WA guys going and sounds like a good gig.. Sadly I can't make it :/


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## Brewman_

I have a bunch of entries to send in for Brewman customers. On the website I can't see where the entries are to be sent.

Can someone let me know the shipping address?

Cheers Steve


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## EmptyB

Brewman_ said:


> I have a bunch of entries to send in for Brewman customers. On the website I can't see where the entries are to be sent.
> 
> Can someone let me know the shipping address?
> 
> Cheers Steve


2. Entries must be received by Monday 15th October. Address for boxes: AABC, c/- Grain & Grape, 5/280 Whitehall St, Yarraville, Vic 3013. Address for individual bottles: Mark Hibberd, 19 Iluka Ave, Aspendale, Vic 3195.


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## Brewman_

EmptyB said:


> 2. Entries must be received by Monday 15th October. Address for boxes: AABC, c/- Grain & Grape, 5/280 Whitehall St, Yarraville, Vic 3013. Address for individual bottles: Mark Hibberd, 19 Iluka Ave, Aspendale, Vic 3195.


Good man.

Cheers Steve


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## moonhead

Any ideas when we'll know about judging/stewarding? Put my name down and haven't heard anything. Just need to keep on top of it as It'll be a day off work for most to get along to this.

EDIT: Never mind! Email received about 30 seconds after I posted this. Nice work!


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## Headmeister

Moonhead, keen to know what day that is in any case, my entry landed at the Grain and Grape yesterday according to Australia post.. 

Hoping there's a few days of the bottles hopefully being upright to allow for the bottle conditioning yeast to settle out again. 

No doubt my samples would have been shaken every which way on the trip from Sydney.


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## kaiserben

n87 said:


> It seems noone has mentioned it here so I will.
> 
> Entries need to be registered by the 7th, this Sunday



Oops! I missed that date. Oh well.


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## n87

kaiserben said:


> Oops! I missed that date. Oh well.



Yeah,
It was a bit short, with not a whole heap of warning or advertising. I think entries were only open for just over a week


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## moonhead

Headmeister said:


> Moonhead, keen to know what day that is in any case, my entry landed at the Grain and Grape yesterday according to Australia post..
> 
> Hoping there's a few days of the bottles hopefully being upright to allow for the bottle conditioning yeast to settle out again.
> 
> No doubt my samples would have been shaken every which way on the trip from Sydney.



It's the 25th of October, the same day as the awards. Judging in the morning, recovery in the afternoon, awards in the evening.


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## Headmeister

Many thanks moonhead


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## ShonkytonkBrewer

How's that judging coming along???


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## n87

Are the results going to be twit'd live like a couple of years ago?


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## fcmcg

I know that Matt collinson from westgate got a first with his German pils apparently


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## -ThirstyBrewer-

It’s going to be a long day waiting for these results


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## n87

indeed...

I saw somewhere that the results may be posted Monday... but that might be a rumour too.


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## nvs-brews

Well that answers my questions.. I know I didnt medal as my mates didnt post me pictures, but keen to see how the beers went from State to Nationals


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## bingggo

So, the awards were last night? Any early results? Eg. for speciality category 18


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## ShonkytonkBrewer

I just messaged one of the Vic reps on the AABC committee.

He advised they will be emailing the full results it to all entrants late on Sunday


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## -ThirstyBrewer-

If anyone is attending the awards night, maybe they could relay some results......


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## MartinOC

Bear in mind that the bloke checking/publishing the results is also the Chairman of the ANHC, so he's got a lot on his plate ATM. He's currently at the ANHC dinner, has more work to do at the conference tomorrow & will then probably take a breather & have a VERY well-earned beer once it's all over.

Results will probably be released in-full on Monday, followed by scanned judging sheets (with very little feedback, since they've already been "judged" at State level) a day or two later.

Patience is a virtue, guys.


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## ShonkytonkBrewer

MartinOC said:


> Bear in mind that the bloke checking/publishing the results is also the Chairman of the ANHC, so he's got a lot on his plate ATM. He's currently at the ANHC dinner, has more work to do at the conference tomorrow & will then probably take a breather & have a VERY well-earned beer once it's all over.
> 
> Results will probably be released in-full on Monday, followed by scanned judging sheets (with very little feedback, since they've already been "judged" at State level) a day or two later.
> 
> Patience is a virtue, guys.



Its your own fault @MartinOC - you and the Vicbrew crew do such a good job at getting the results out within hours of the comp closing. You've set the bar high


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## n87

Just got this in my inbox, so I would guess that everyone else got it too.


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## Bogan333

AABC2018 Results


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## mic

also at http://aabc.org.au/stateresults/AABC2018FullResults.pdf


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## timmi9191

Great job done by all


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## MartinOC

Looks like someone decided not to tie one on last night at the ANHC Club Night, so that results could be out earlier than expected.


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## JDW81

Well done to all the medal winners, and to those who had the gumption to submit entries!

I need to take of my skirt and put some beers in for judging at some stage.


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## MartinOC

Phew! We did it & got the results out (ANHC & hangovers notwithstanding...).

As Chief Steward, I'd like to send-out a personal thanks to all the folks that Stewarded for the event (Note that I used a capital "S" for Steward. We're often given a back-seat in the accolades compared to the judges (lower-case "j"). But, without us, the competition just couldn't/wouldn't run. Be proud of a job VERY well-done, guys.

Special thanks go to Mike, Robin, Cam & Neal (pouring 6 categories at once?? You're a bloody TROJAN!) behind the bar & the two back-room guys who spent the entire day "just" washing jugs & glasses (who even saw them the whole day????).

Being "Cheify" is a tough gig & you lot made my job a LOT easier. Thanks.

Cheers!

Martin


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## n87

@MartinOC 
I see that the scores were upped in Compmaster last week, however, the scoresheet links dont work.
Is this something that is still being processed, or is there something wrong?


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## Uyllii

n87 said:


> @MartinOC
> I see that the scores were upped in Compmaster last week, however, the scoresheet links dont work.
> Is this something that is still being processed, or is there something wrong?



I just downloaded all my scoresheets as jpegs from the compmaster site without an issue.


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## n87

Uyllii said:


> I just downloaded all my scoresheets as jpegs from the compmaster site without an issue.



Looks like it is working now.
Thanks all.


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## bingggo

The 2017 medals arrived for me today for my cobrewed entry  glad they finally made it! Thanks to the treasurer over there for getting it done! 

Cheers.


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## MetalDan

Is there any word on prizes for AABC 2018 winners?


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## PaleRider

I don't think there are any prizes, only trophies.


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## MartinOC

MetalDan said:


> Is there any word on prizes for AABC 2018 winners?





PaleRider said:


> I don't think there are any prizes, only trophies.


 Yep, only bragging-rights & glassy stuff you can hold in your hand or show-off to mates until you get pissed & drop it


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## LRJ

Hello fellow brewers,

I've recently taken an active role in the Milton Show homebrew comp.

I have proposed a change for all entries to be in accordance with categories and styles as published by the AABC. 

I would like to talk to someone about that. For example - can I get a word doc of the categories sheet so that I can put Milton Show on top, and add it to our entry form! This is a new world for me, so any assistance would be great. Ideally I would like to be put in touch with whoever coordinates the AABC - the website I note has no contact details.

Thanks!


Liam Jackson


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## mic

Hi Liam
Ive put a word version at
http//:aabc.org.au/temp/


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## n87

Hey all,

The nationals are only a month away... is there any word on the ANHC?
Would like to attend this year now that it is in Sydney (possibly...)


Nationals link for easy reference: https://nationals2019.nswhomebrewing.org//


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## HoppyDays

ANHC only every 2 years so 2020 in Melbourne is the next one. 



n87 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> The nationals are only a month away... is there any word on the ANHC?
> Would like to attend this year now that it is in Sydney (possibly...)
> 
> 
> Nationals link for easy reference: https://nationals2019.nswhomebrewing.org//


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## n87

HoppyDays said:


> ANHC only every 2 years so 2020 in Melbourne is the next one.



Bugger... I swear it was in 2017 aswell... ah well, looks like I will likely never get to it then.


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