# What Brewing Software Do You Use And Why?



## Yeastie Beastie (26/12/09)

I am in the process of purchasing some brewing software to use with AG brewing.

Promash, Beersmith and Beer Tools are the three that I am interested in and I want some advice as to which one is the most user friendly option.

In your opinion which is the best to suit your needs and why?


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## barls (26/12/09)

i use beer alchemy but im a mac user.
come to the good side


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## Tony (26/12/09)

Promash cause its tops!


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## NickB (26/12/09)

BeerAlchemy. The features continue to amaze me every time I find them (like the 'period brewed' history!)

Cheers


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## nickel (26/12/09)

I'm happy with Beersmith.


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## absinthe (26/12/09)

i looked at promash but liked the interface and features of beersmith so i went with that... just download the free trials and give em a go


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## warra48 (26/12/09)

More than happy with BeerSmith here.

Plus they have an online forum to give you any help you need.


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## yardy (26/12/09)

Beersmith here, bit of a pleb when it comes to the puter but i manage to work it out ok


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## Tony (26/12/09)

yardy said:


> Beersmith here, bit of a pleb when it comes to the puter but i manage to work it out ok




I think you just hit the nail on the head there Yardy.

I tried beersmith when i was shopping around like you Yeasty, and it works just fine..... the same as Promash works fine.

Promash can be a bit scary at first, its a bit more involved, but thats what i want. I like in depth and complex stuff to play with. Its more difficult, but more powerfull. If you want something a bit simpler up front... try beersmith.


Promash can be scary at first but if you take the time to read the help files on how to use all the functions, its awsome. It just takes a bit more effort to learn... thats all.

Both will work fine, its down to which will suit you and your level of keenness and computer literacy.

Get the free dowloads of both and give them both a go. Decide on one and run with it.

cheers


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## glaab (26/12/09)

I downloaded both and found them pretty much the same. I went with BS because the ProMash agent here [jovial monk] said there hadnt been any ProMash updates since '03-'04. I'm happy with BS, once you work out your way around it it's excellent :chug:


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## Yeastie Beastie (26/12/09)

After spending my afternoon playing around with Promash & Beersmith (and bottling a brew lol) I think they are pretty much on par with each other and both have a good help section for people like me who have had nothing to do with these programmes before. 

Although I think I will go with Beersmith as it seems to be a bit less complex but still give much the same overall statistics etc in the finish. 

Guess ill just see how I go with it.

Thanks for all your help.


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## Peteoz77 (26/12/09)

barls said:


> i use beer alchemy but im a mac user.
> come to the good side




+1 Beer Alchemy is good software!


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## Yeastie Beastie (26/12/09)

Peteoz77 said:


> +1 Beer Alchemy is good software!




I have read a few good reviews on Beer Alchemy and it is a shame it is only available for MAC.


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## t2000kw (27/12/09)

I own both, even helped in the development of the last ProMash version on the testing team a few years ago. They are both good, useful programs. 

The ProMash interface seems to be a little overwhelming at first, but when switching to Beersmith I experienced the same feeling. I feel that Beersmith takes less time to get used to, though. 

Beersmith has two advantages over ProMash. 

First, it is in active development and support by its creator(s). The creator of ProMash seems to have disappeared from public contact. So if you lose your registration information, or need some other assistance, you may not get any help for ProMash. You will for Beersmith. 

Second, they have useful forums to get help from other people as well as the Beersmith people, who often jump in and help there. 

Some things seem to be easier to do in ProMash, some in Beersmith, but they both have so many features you would be served well by either program. Both are available as tril download versions, so try them both. At least ProMash, after the trial period is over with, will retain some useful utilities, so you may want to keep the trial version even after it expires if yo go with Beersmith.


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## kirem (27/12/09)

t2000kw said:


> So if you lose your registration information, or need some other assistance, you may not get any help for ProMash. You will for Beersmith.



IF you lose your registration key, you can get it back easily. Even if you have changed you email address, you will still be able to retrieve your registration code.

I use Promash, because it was the the most popular and maybe the only brewing software around when I started and now that I am used to it, I have no reason to change.

It nearly does everything I want, about the only annoying bit, is the malt, hop, yeast etc databases are out of date and it is pain in the arse to track down the specifications and enter them.

maltcraft released a database for the malts available in Aust about 7-10 years ago, but it has gone out of date as well. I just manually add mine and try and keep on top of my new purchases.


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## jpScarfac3 (27/12/09)

+1 for Beer Engine

Simple but easy to use, last update was in 2008, has useful calculators and a nice recipe and journal printouts. Give it a go, it's free.

Not sure if I can link directly but it can be found at 'practical brewing dot co dot uk'.


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## Tony (27/12/09)

When i got Promash...... about 6 years ago i found beersmith a bit lacking in comparison.

But its true Promash has not had upgrades and there seems to be no support anymore. I too have to look up malt specs and enter them manually. Same with hops.... there are lots of new varieties out there now days that have to be researched and entered manually.

There seems to be an overwhelming swing towards Beersmith, compared to years ago when Promash was all the go (because it offered more) Perhaps the tables have turned.

Im tempted to grab a copy of beersmith and give it a go.

cheers


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## Yeastie Beastie (27/12/09)

jpScarfac3 said:


> +1 for Beer Engine
> 
> Simple but easy to use, last update was in 2008, has useful calculators and a nice recipe and journal printouts. Give it a go, it's free.
> 
> Not sure if I can link directly but it can be found at 'practical brewing dot co dot uk'.




Hadn't heard of Beer Engine before but I have found it for anyone else who is interested too. It is free software but the site says to remember it is a work in progress so it may have a few small glitches but I am still going to try it out regardless.

FREE Beer Engine Software Download


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## Darren (27/12/09)

kirem said:


> IF you lose your registration key, you can get it back easily. Even if you have changed you email address, you will still be able to retrieve your registration code.




Kirem,

How do I do that?

cheers

Darren


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## barls (27/12/09)

Yeastie Beastie said:


> I have read a few good reviews on Beer Alchemy and it is a shame it is only available for MAC.


thats easy fixed come join us


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Something everyone forgets

Promash is a 16 bit program AND WONT WORK in 64 bit mode in Windows 7.

something to consider if you upgrade your computer

Craftbrewer


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## Ray_Mills (27/12/09)

Hi
I have been using Beertools for some time now and its a very good programme, got some great features and will be around for the long run.
One of the things I like is you can download any recipe from thier site, (10,000 there i think) and change to suite your enviroment.
Most Australian malts are on the database and if your brewing to style its very accurate.
Cheers
Ray


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## Yeastie Beastie (27/12/09)

barls said:


> thats easy fixed come join us




I will admitt a MAC would be handy


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## Jazman (27/12/09)

promash works well under wine in ubuntu(linux) havent tried under win 7 but i spos u set the properties to run in win xp compat used in vista but then i hardly use win these days


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## randyrob (27/12/09)

Hey Yeasty Beasty,

If you are still in the market, I'd be happy to flick you a beta verison of the software i have been working on see what you think?

BrewMate

Rob.


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> Something everyone forgets
> 
> Promash is a 16 bit program AND WONT WORK in 64 bit mode in Windows 7.
> 
> ...




What's Windoze 7? Is that like Mac OS9?


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## Yeastie Beastie (27/12/09)

randyrob said:


> Hey Yeasty Beasty,
> 
> If you are still in the market, I'd be happy to flick you a beta verison of the software i have been working on see what you think?
> 
> ...




Hey I would be MORE than happy to give that a go. From the screenshot it actually looks great and more than anything user friendly.


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## Gout (27/12/09)

i have promash and its working on windows 7(x64), vista (x64), xp etc so you might need to try again. I dont recall i did anything smart to get it working - I just had a look and i didnt even ask it to run in previous version of windows compatibility mode

good luck


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Gout said:


> i have promash and its working on windows 7(x64), vista (x64), xp etc so you might need to try again. I dont recall i did anything smart to get it working - I just had a look and i didnt even ask it to run in previous version of windows compatibility mode
> 
> good luck



I'll give it another go and see. Could have been a bad install, who knows.

Craftbrewer
Graham Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## kirem (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> Kirem,
> 
> How do I do that?
> 
> ...



http://www.promash.com/Users/userhelp.html

*Changed your Email Address?* If you have changed your email address and cannot access the password recover system send us an email to:

[email protected] 

In the Subject line type the words "EMAIL CHANGE". In the body of the email include: 

1) Your full name.
2) Your former email address.
3) Your current email address.

We will modify your records and automatically generate a password recover to your new email address.


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## RussTaylor (27/12/09)

I used to use Promash and swapped to Beersmith about 2 years ago. The main thing I miss is the differentiation between a recipe and a session. Also the bottle carbonation area in Beersmith is a little basic as it assumes you bottle your full batch size rather than taking into consideration losses during fermentation and conditioning. Promash allows you to enter any figure for the amount you've bottled AND kegged. Beersmith only allows bottled OR kegged not both. Basically Promash allows a more accurate recording of your brewing session. In Beersmith you have to record all these things in the notes.

The main reason why I switched is because Beersmith has a more active development and support team/community.


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## Bribie G (27/12/09)

Personally, I just make beer and don't see the point of software. I know what 30g of POR is going to do or what I'm going to get with 4k of Galaxy and 500 of Polenta, or 20 Challenger, 20 EKG and a plug of Styrians into the keg, or what sort of beer to expect with 5000 of Golden Promise, 68 degree mash and half a k of sugaz in the fermenter. I can almost taste it as I plan it. Don't need a program to tell me.

I don't expect the Coopers family had promash.


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## np1962 (27/12/09)

BribieG said:


> Personally, I just make beer and don't see the point of software. I know what 30g of POR is going to do or what I'm going to get with 4k of Galaxy and 500 of Polenta, or 20 Challenger, 20 EKG and a plug of Styrians into the keg, or what sort of beer to expect with 5000 of Golden Promise, 68 degree mash and half a k of sugaz in the fermenter. I can almost taste it as I plan it. Don't need a program to tell me.
> 
> I don't expect the Coopers family had promash.


Bribie, you have an advantage, 

You were born a Yorkshireman!

By the way, congrats on 5000 posts  

Cheers
Nige


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## matthendry (27/12/09)

BribieG said:


> Personally, I just make beer and don't see the point of software. I know what 30g of POR is going to do or what I'm going to get with 4k of Galaxy and 500 of Polenta, or 20 Challenger, 20 EKG and a plug of Styrians into the keg, or what sort of beer to expect with 5000 of Golden Promise, 68 degree mash and half a k of sugaz in the fermenter. I can almost taste it as I plan it. Don't need a program to tell me.
> 
> I don't expect the Coopers family had promash.



The Coopers family uses Siemens Braumat Software 

http://www.automation.siemens.com/MCMS/FOO...es/Default.aspx


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Tell you after using Beersmith for a year, I am soooo pleased to be again on Promash. While each to me is as much as muchly as a program goes, I just like the feel of Promash.

AND to support the brewing industry, and all those Craftbrewers, I have yet again put my self out.

The trouble with Promash is it hasn't been updated for some time (well neither has Beersmith as well). Thats because simply brewing is a simple chemical process, and once you nail the formulas in a program like these, there is nothing more left to do.

EXCEPT update the receipe, malt, yeast, style guidelines database.

Well this is where you think Promash has let you down. BUT NO!!!!!!! he cries. Craftbrewers like me have been secretly updating these things, and they are fully available. 

If you want an update of these data bases to put on your Promash give me a bell, happy to share these files.

Nothing better than to share things at Christmas.

Craftbrewer
Graham Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## MHB (27/12/09)

None of the above
I have all of them and a couple that havent got a mention yet like The Master Brewers Tool Box available through the MBAA and Beer Tools Pro.
In short if you know whats going on with your system and have a basic knowledge of the brewing process you should be able to work out your grain bill and hop additions very easily doing so increases your understanding of both the processes and ingredients you use.

A lot of peoples approach to brewing software is a bit like giving your kid a calculator and thinking they can do maths, wrong, they might get an answer, it might even be the right answer, but if they dont understand the basic principles used to get the answer they cant apply the processes to different or changing circumstances.

The other issue I have with brewing software is that it leads to false expectations; the answer is going to lie in a range rather than be a discrete right answer.
Just looking at bitterness; the classic example is the great HBD Palexperiment all the brewing software gave answers that were up to 30% out, and the outcomes from the same ingredients gave results that varied over a 20% range. Were the brewers who got higher or lower than average results wrong?

For me doing the work myself and comparing results with expectations is part of learning to brew better.
MHB


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## Smashin (27/12/09)

I used promash for a few years, I'm a bit perplexed with comment Re: being more complicated to use. I found Promash is very simple and intuitive. Upgrading data base is no secret nor complicated, just import them using the "import button. data bases are widely available from many sources, good on you graham for sharing databases that you have updated. About a year ago i started using beer smith for one main reason, that being the very clunky method of reviewing brewdays and recipes. 



townsville said:


> ...once you nail the formulas in a program like these, there is nothing more left to do....



not quite, heres a few points where promash could be updated imo. others may want to comment or add to it.

-updated to provide the more userfriendly reviewing interface for recipes and brew days (similar to beersmith).
-the "yeast and water " & "Extras and notes" buttons on the recipe page seam useless, just display the info and allow the window to be enlarged.
-add a fermentation temperature profile (similar to the mash schedule page).
-hop age degradation calculation built into the recipe page once accessed through the brewday.


Similar could be said for Beersmith.
i.e. 
- hydrometer button on the main recipe page.
- allow the ingredients box to auto widen so theres no need to scroll side ways.

Again my preference is for promash, yet once or two functions drew be back to beersmith. I'd vote for new version of promash.


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## browndog (27/12/09)

Ross said:


> Good to see you supporting the industry Graham <_<
> 
> Edit... & to keep on topic - I prefer & use Beersmith.
> 
> Cheers Ross



SNAP !

I agree with the beersmith users, it is very easy to use and if you know the specs of the hop/malt/adjunct/whatever you can easily update the database with it yourself. Infact I just added chinese hops and citra to the hop database in the last few days.

cheers

Browndog


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## goomboogo (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> Tell you after using Beersmith for a year, I am soooo pleased to be again on Promash. While each to me is as much as muchly as a program goes, I just like the feel of Promash.
> 
> AND to support the brewing industry, and all those Craftbrewers, I have yet again put my self out.
> 
> ...



I think Ross was referring to your admission that you were too tight to purchase the software yet still use it.


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## Adamt (27/12/09)

Graham L Sanders, the Robin Hood of Townsville forest.


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## bonj (27/12/09)

I personally prefer beersmith. I just prefer the interface to promash, which seems about 15 years out of date to me. I've heard they both work fine on Linux through Wine. I know Beersmith does. As a former software developer, I make a point of supporting the developers of software like this. A fair amount of effort has gone into it, and they deserve to be reimbursed for that.


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## browndog (27/12/09)

Bonj said:


> I personally prefer beersmith. I just prefer the interface to promash, which seems about 15 years out of date to me. I've heard they both work fine on Linux through Wine. I know Beersmith does. As a former software developer, I make a point of supporting the developers of software like this. A fair amount of effort has gone into it, and they deserve to be reimbursed for that.




Here Here..


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## Darren (27/12/09)

I use promash until about a year ago when I changed to Vista.

Couldn't get it to work but it didn't really bother me as I know my system fairly well.

However, I downloaded the trial version as GLS suggested and wholla, promash works again (for how long Im not sure).

Thanks GLS


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> I use promash until about a year ago when I changed to Vista.
> However, I downloaded the trial version , promash works again (for how long Im not sure).



Yeh, I recon there are a lot of us out there using the original and last version - 1.8a, and thinking its the latest. As I said, I had used mine religiously since 2003, BUT it was a 16 bit application, useless on 64 bit Vista and Windows 7. 

What has thrown us is they have upgraded Promash to a 32 bit system, which works in both these systems, BUT didn't change the version number on the website, its still 1.8a.

So everytime we have looked on the website, we think "hey, they haven't changed Promash." But they had, and protocol would have dictated a change in version number, at least 1.8b if nothing else.

You wonder how many people are out there, thinking promash is no good, all because they are still using the old 16 bit application, thinking its the latest.

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## browndog (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> Yeh, I recon there are a lot of us out there using the original and last version - 1.8a, and thinking its the latest. As I said, I had used mine religiously since 2003, BUT it was a 16 bit application, useless on 64 bit Vista and Windows 7.
> 
> What has thrown us is they have upgraded Promash to a 32 bit system, which works in both these systems, BUT didn't change the version number on the website, its still 1.8a.
> 
> ...



Insert ( HANDS OVER MY EARS SMILEY)


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## bonj (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> Yeh, I recon there are a lot of us out there using the original and last version - 1.8a, and thinking its the latest. As I said, I had used mine religiously since 2003, BUT it was a 16 bit application, useless on 64 bit Vista and Windows 7.
> 
> What has thrown us is they have upgraded Promash to a 32 bit system, which works in both these systems, BUT didn't change the version number on the website, its still 1.8a.
> 
> ...



No, protocol dictates that a version number is only incremented on software changes. A recompile for different hardware/operating system is not a software change, and does not require a version number increment. It is the same version, just compiled for a new system.


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Bonj said:


> No, protocol dictates that a version number is only incremented on software changes. A recompile for different hardware/operating system is not a software change, and does not require a version number increment. It is the same version, just compiled for a new system.




Thats why I suggested something like version 1.8b. The version number hasn't changed, BUT it indicated a change in something that is worth investigating, like going from a 16 bit to 32 bit applicaqtion. thats normal stuff.

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

I could have sworn Townsville had another post here a few seconds ago.... And it was derogatory.

I may have a piece of software or two that I have not paid for, but none that I use regularly... those are all paid for.

And I would never post publicly that I posess pirated software, use it all the time and regularly distribute it....

This changes my stand on the chinese hop purchase. 

If Townsville is organising it... I am out.


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## browndog (27/12/09)

Peteoz77 said:


> I could have sworn Townsville had another post here a few seconds ago.... And it was derogatory.
> 
> I may have a piece of software or two that I have not paid for, but none that I use regularly... those are all paid for.
> 
> ...




He did, and while I am at it, if you guys knew what went on with Chappo missing out on his hops you would all have a very different opinion of Mr Sanders.

cheers

Browndog


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Peteoz77 said:


> I could have sworn Townsville had another post here a few seconds ago.... And it was derogatory.




wasn't derogratory - I basically said, All I do is help other Craftbrewers who have helped me, and - take me as I am

thats all

beats me why it was pulled.

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> wasn't derogratory - I basically said, take me as I am
> 
> thats all




So why did you remove it? OK, so it was removed by a moderator?

Maybe because it plainly stated that you distribute illegal copies of software... which can get you landed in prison? 

Just an idea...


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Peteoz77 said:


> So why did you remove it?



I didn't mate

Some-one else did

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> I didn't mate
> 
> Some-one else did




Think about that....


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## Ross (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> beats me why it was pulled.
> 
> Graham L Sanders
> skype "Craftbrewer"
> ...



I guess it was pulled because offering stolen goods (for profit or not) is against forum guidelines.

Ross

you gotta type quick around here


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Done that, gave the brain box a whirl.

your point is

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Ross said:


> I guess it was pulled because offering stolen goods (for profit or not) is against forum guidelines.
> 
> you gotta type quick around here




its the quick or the dead.

The post that was pulled didn't offer any such thing actually

Craftbrewer
Graham L Sanders
skype "Craftbrewer"
http://radio.craftbrewer.org
organisor of the Great Chinese Hop Buy

edit - Actually think I found the problem. I used a quote from Ross that mentions pirated software - thats probably where the problem lies. My post looks actually ok. so my post is ok on its own, its the refering quote causing the problem.


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## browndog (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> its the quick or the dead.
> 
> The post that was pulled didn't offer any such thing actually
> 
> ...



Ah..... so when you said you gave away copies of beersmith, promash etc etc to brewers you actually paid for every license yourself?


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## bonj (27/12/09)

Well, if it helps, I have the offending post in my email box... I won't post it as I assume it was removed for a reason, but I can say that it did not say anything about offering software.... (although a previous post did mention that he would give it to anyone that wanted it... under the assumption that he is helping fellow brewers. Well, I'm pretty sure that the developers of promash and beersmith are also brewers, and ripping them off by illegally distributing their intellectual property does them no favours).


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

I guess we all got it wrong then Bonj. I read it the way it was typed.

Probably best to quit talking about it now....


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## Pollux (27/12/09)

I thought I had posted here....

That said, I made comment to the sub-topic whose name shall not be spoken...

To repeat the useful part of that post.

I have used beersmith since I went AG, works great for me personally, I'd love a few other tiny features, like being able to just enter the brix value for the OG, instead of having to click to another section to convert, remember that number and click back to the recipe.....


That and I want the style of graph someone posted in the "brewing totals" thread, simply so I could easily track much grain/hops/yeast I am using per month....

But given that's my biggest complaints, it shows that I quite enjoy beersmith. Although I was playing with some piece of software on Vital Statistix's iphone while I was at a brewday at his place recently, can't remember the name but it was nearly enough for me to consider an iphone.


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## RdeVjun (27/12/09)

I just pwned mysel^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H have no idea officer, I'm innocent I tells ya...

How dare this sort of shenanigan interrupts my brewdaw- just when I was about to add some late hops & all... :lol:

Edit: Sorry, in all the frivolity I neglected to mention, StrangeBrew is *free* and does most things a bought app would. Not perfect mind, but sufficient for my needs. And the ingredients databases are CSV, so you can put whatever you like in them, however you like, i.e. no proprietary DBs or any such crap.


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## Darren (27/12/09)

I thought it was offering updated grain and hop databases for the software. Isn't that like offering a .rec (promash file)?

The developers DONOT upgrade data bases of various malts/hops/yeast that a brewer may use. It is up to a brewer to add these items by themselves!! It is surely also OK for the brewer to distribute these data bases to other brewers?

Funny that so many mamsy pamsy individuals fell it would be fine to share a microsoft product (only because it is microsoft), burn DVD's, download torrents but get all uppetty over such a little issue.

FWIW, I bought my version of Promash ~15 years ago.\

cheers

Darren


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## kook (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> I thought it was offering updated grain and hop databases for the software. Isn't that like offering a .rec (promash file)?
> 
> The developers DONOT upgrade data bases of various malts/hops/yeast that a brewer may use. It is up to a brewer to add these items by themselves!! It is surely also OK for the brewer to distribute these data bases to other brewers?
> 
> Funny that so many mamsy pamsy individuals fell it would be fine to share a microsoft product (only because it is microsoft), burn DVD's, download torrents but get all uppetty over such a little issue.



It wasn't Darren. The post offering updated databases is still in the thread.

link

No need to get mamsy pamsy about it :lol:



FWIW - I use BeerAlchemy. I have Beersmith and Promash too, but never use them anymore. BeerAlchemy does everything I want with a great user interface, percentage based recipe building and the developer is really receptive to adding extras (I emailed him about adding Brix conversions on the recipe sheet, next release a few weeks later had it!).


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

Seems Darren might have missed the "THe CRACK still works" posted earlier.

Maybe someone is "Cracking" those updated databases.

All I suggest is that no one publicly states that they have or are stealing any software.

Pretty Simple....


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## browndog (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> I thought it was offering updated grain and hop databases for the software. Isn't that like offering a .rec (promash file)?
> 
> The developers DONOT upgrade data bases of various malts/hops/yeast that a brewer may use. It is up to a brewer to add these items by themselves!! It is surely also OK for the brewer to distribute these data bases to other brewers?
> 
> ...



The guy was boasting his crack for the program still worked.

Darren, if you want to justify ripping off an individual in the brewing or home brewing industry just say so. Don't compare it to a mega comany like microsoft that will one day rule the world.

cheers

Browndog


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## Darren (27/12/09)

Peteoz77 said:


> Seems Darren might have missed the "THe CRACK still works" posted earlier.
> 
> Maybe someone is "Cracking" those updated databases.
> 
> ...




OK, well why are pictures of many homebrewers set-up which contain obviously stolen kegs (unless of course receipts are posted too) moderated and deleted?

Seems a little mamsy pamsy at the least and at worst selective sensorship  

cheers

Darren

PS: I hope you dont have yourself or associate with people using "second-hand" kegs?


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## Darren (27/12/09)

I reckon Browndog and Pete and Kook and AndrewQld should post pics of their breweries?

cheerrs

darren


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## kook (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> I reckon Browndog and Pete and Kook and AndrewQld should post pics of their breweries?
> 
> cheerrs
> 
> darren



I have in the gallery and other threads Darren; I have no idea what my brewery has to do with brewing software though. Do you?


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## Darren (27/12/09)

kook said:


> I have in the gallery and other threads Darren; I have no idea what my brewery has to do with brewing software though. Do you?




Kook,
Is this your picture?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...si&img=4302

If so, did you pay for that keg? Do you have receipts?.

Seems there are pages and pages of photoshopped kegs in there?

"Stolen" software is bad and requires mamsy pamsy moderation (unless it comes from microsoft of course browndog) but a little thieved keg is ok?

Moderators, get some consistency in your censorship!!  

cheers

Darren


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## kook (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> Kook,
> Is this your picture?
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...si&img=4302



No Darren, if you check the gallery comments, I restored those pictures from a deleted wiki.


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## Darren (27/12/09)

Kook,

As did the other posters with kegs in the gallery??

cheers

Darren


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## kook (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> Kook,
> 
> As did the other posters with kegs in the gallery??
> 
> ...



And this has what to do with the brewing software you use?


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## Peteoz77 (27/12/09)

Darren said:


> I reckon Browndog and Pete and Kook and AndrewQld should post pics of their breweries?
> 
> cheerrs
> 
> darren




Why would that be Darren?

Even if I DID have used CUB kegs, and I porovided receipts for them... how would that affect this situation?

Seems showing off used kegs is somehow similar to telling the world that you steal and distribute pirated software to anyone who asks for it?

Officially letting this one go now......


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## townsville (27/12/09)

Peteoz77 said:


> Why would that be Darren?
> 
> Even if I DID have used CUB kegs, and I porovided receipts for them... how would that affect this situation?
> 
> ...




Please do people. Just let it go people.

Craftbrewer


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## Gout (27/12/09)

back OT - i use promash because it was the software to use when i started AG (2003 odd). I am happy with it and it works well. Strange but i found it easy to use and beersmith hard but thats because i was used to it. I did use the demo of BS and like the water salts etc and think its better in some areas.

At the end of the day try them all and one will stand out...

just make sure you enjoy your brewing


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## daemon (27/12/09)

Pirating software designed just to help brewers all to save $30? Really, that's pretty damn pathetic. 

I use Beersmith, downloaded the trial of Promash and Beersmith but the interface seemed easier to use. Both have trials you can download so even if others recommend either one there's nothing stopping you seeing how you like each of them.

Neither are perfect but for the tiny sum of $30 it's hard to complain. They'll take care of most of the thinking required on brewday, will record the results and help calculate everything else. Hard to ask for more!


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## townsville (27/12/09)

kook said:


> And this has what to do with the brewing software you use?



I will let this go, BUT for a comment.

The anology that Darren uses is an excellent one. As a moderator, if you exercise a judgement that a post somehow borders on illegal activity, then you should be consistant accross the board on the principles you apply it.

You can not show favour. In the keg example, I know for a fact that CUB and Lion Nathan DO NOT SELL THEIR KEGS. I have tried many occasions to buy them second hand for brewing dirrectly from them. They crush them rather than sell them - period. 

Therefore, any brewing setup with these kegs HAVE TO HAVE appropriate paperwork from them to authorise their use. If not- well its illegal. Thats the point Darren is making. Why pick on one subject - consistancy accross the board from moderators. A picture with these kegs means its illegal unless proven otherwise.

Climb a moral high horse - ONLY if your prepared to fall on those morals.

Craftbrewer


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## browndog (27/12/09)

WOW, what a censored thread! never seen anything like this. Graham Sanders bragged about having a Promash crack, there is no disputing it.


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## bum (27/12/09)

townsville said:


> I will let this go, BUT for a comment.
> 
> The anology that Darren uses is an excellent one. As a moderator, if you exercise a judgement that a post somehow borders on illegal activity, then you should be consistant accross the board on the principles you apply it.
> 
> ...



All wrong. The thing that people are taking issue with is that there was a suggestion that an individual presented his software piracy as helping the homebrew community. I don't see anyone suggesting that their CUB keggle is a massive boon to the megaswill producers.

Rhetoric is good stuff, kids. Look into it.

p.s. wtf does "mamsy pamsy" mean? Namby pamby?


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## Guest Lurker (27/12/09)

Discussing illegal activities is verboden
Questioning moderators is sehr verboden
Since there is nothing of use to the original poster being added, thread closed


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