# Temperature For Pitching Yeast



## hobartbrewer

This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.

I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?

Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.


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## jammer

hobartbrewer said:


> This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.
> 
> I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?
> 
> Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.


Wow, that's warm. I pitch at around 20-22. You'll find you'll get lots of esters (off flavours ) at that temp. And bread yeast, is ummm, less than desirable... But you know, desperate times and all....


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## sp0rk

Because anything over about 23C starts creating esters, buttery tastes and other undesirables that will make your brew taste generally nasty
yeast won't "die" (sleep) usually until much lower temps, around 9C atleast for lager yeasts
use the search function, you'll find a whole bunch of threads on this topic


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## sp0rk

Also, sourcing yeast in Tassie isn't hard, infact here is a list of brew shops down your way (and these are just brew cellar stockists, i'm sure there are many more)


Brew By You
51b Main Road , MOONAH TAS 7009, AU | 03 6278 3881 |

King Island IGA
Everyday Main Street , CURRIE TAS 7256, AU | 03 6462 1244 |

Legana Plants Plus
717 West Tamar Highway , LEGANA TAS 7277, AU | 03 6330 1177 |

Mac's Liquidation Store
46 Emmett Street , SMITHTON TAS 7330, AU | 03 6452 3468 |

Northern Home Brewing
Unit 7/2 Elphin Road , LAUNCESTON TAS 7250, AU | 03 6334 0081 |

Penguin Fruit and Veg
86 Main Street , PENGUIN TAS 7316, AU | 03 6437 1110 |

Tasmanian Homebrew Supplies
222 Liverpool Street , HOBART TAS 7000, AU | 03 6243 6230 |

There is also the site sponsors who'll ship to you for fairly cheap


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## hobartbrewer

jammer said:


> Wow, that's warm. I pitch at around 20-22. You'll find you'll get lots of esters (off flavours ) at that temp. And bread yeast, is ummm, less than desirable... But you know, desperate times and all....



Well I put them in at 40 and it would have got down to 25ish within a few hours I'm guessing. I noticed the CO2 dropped for about 6 hours later the next day , I'm guessing that's the yeast switching from aerobic to anaerobic and now it's at a steady once per 5 seconds.


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## hobartbrewer

sp0rk said:


> Also, sourcing yeast in Tassie isn't hard, infact here is a list of brew shops down your way (and these are just brew cellar stockists, i'm sure there are many more)
> 
> 
> Brew By You
> 51b Main Road , MOONAH TAS 7009, AU | 03 6278 3881 |
> 
> King Island IGA
> Everyday Main Street , CURRIE TAS 7256, AU | 03 6462 1244 |
> 
> Legana Plants Plus
> 717 West Tamar Highway , LEGANA TAS 7277, AU | 03 6330 1177 |
> 
> Mac's Liquidation Store
> 46 Emmett Street , SMITHTON TAS 7330, AU | 03 6452 3468 |
> 
> Northern Home Brewing
> Unit 7/2 Elphin Road , LAUNCESTON TAS 7250, AU | 03 6334 0081 |
> 
> Penguin Fruit and Veg
> 86 Main Street , PENGUIN TAS 7316, AU | 03 6437 1110 |
> 
> Tasmanian Homebrew Supplies
> 222 Liverpool Street , HOBART TAS 7000, AU | 03 6243 6230 |
> 
> There is also the site sponsors who'll ship to you for fairly cheap



Thanks for the list. I sort of had the motivation to do a brew on that day and I live about 30 clicks from Hobart, so sourcing anything late in the day is hard unless it comes from Woolworths. I'm going into a store before the next one to find some champagne yeast, probably EC-1118. I've mostly only done homebrew beer before.


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## hobartbrewer

sp0rk said:


> Because anything over about 23C starts creating esters, buttery tastes and other undesirables that will make your brew taste generally nasty
> yeast won't "die" (sleep) usually until much lower temps, around 9C atleast for lager yeasts
> use the search function, you'll find a whole bunch of threads on this topic



Ok that does sound bad. On my initial searching I found people talking about the actual fermentation process being too high causing issues but couldn't find much on the initial "pitch". Given the speed the yeast kicked into life at 40C I'm wondering if there is a positive in having it slightly high initially to get things kick started or if it's going to turn out as bad as you say.

I'm also guessing the temperature of the undesirables must depend somewhat on the actual yeast used too? Starting off with bakers yeast is already going to be interesting let alone the other things I've done "Wrong".


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## bignath

hobartbrewer said:


> This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.
> 
> I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?
> 
> Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.



You used 6.5kg of sugar in 21lt's, then pitched bakers yeast when it was at 40deg?
****.......that's gonna taste nasty.



hobartbrewer said:


> Given the speed the yeast kicked into life at 40C I'm wondering if there is a positive in having it slightly high initially to get things kick started or if it's going to turn out as bad as you say.



When we (brewers) talk about pitching slightly high, we usually mean only a couple of degrees higher than intended fermentation temp. Not a bad practise, as it probably does kick it off a tad quicker, but it needs to be brought down quite quick. For the record, i don't do this, but several brewers do. The difference with only a couple of degrees can be significant to the end result of the beer, depending on the actual yeast of course.
Pitching anything at 40deg is not "slightly high", it's ridiculous...

Without me sounding like a prick, i think you need to stop brewing and read a whole lot more before resuming.

And i'd be tipping whats in your fermenter out now if it was me.

I'm usually quite a kind and considerate person, but what you've described in your process just blows my mind.


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## GalBrew

hobartbrewer said:


> This is probably a generic fermenting question but I was up till 3am putting together a ginger beer brew and it was taking ages to cool down. I ended up putting 6 month old bakers yeast from the fridge in at 40 degrees C, and within 5 minutes of putting the airlock on it was bubbling every 10-15 seconds.
> 
> I know many people recommend to wait till it's 28C or lower but is there any particular reason for this? 40C seems lower than the temperature yeast dies at?
> 
> Other details, I used 6.5KG of sugar (which in theory puts it around 13-15% ABV) and all natural / raw ingredients in a 25L fermenter (21L of liquid). It's bubbling about every 5 seconds now and sitting around 25-28C. It's likely that the bakers yeast isn't going to get rid of all the sugar but I thought if it doesn't turn completely dry then it will just be sweet and that's ok. I'm in the process of sourcing some better yeast but being in Tasmania it's a little hard! Thanks.



Yeah, bakers yeast, 40deg pitch and 6.5kg sugar. It is not going to end well. That being said I would ferment it out as an experiment, read up and see what faults these conditions may result in and see what faults you can actually detect in it. Should be an interesting learning experience.


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## hobartbrewer

AdamFromWH said:


> Yeah, bakers yeast, 40deg pitch and 6.5kg sugar. It is not going to end well. That being said I would ferment it out as an experiment, read up and see what faults these conditions may result in and see what faults you can actually detect in it. Should be an interesting learning experience.



Hey... maybe they used EC1118 in the bakers yeast at woolworths by mistake.... :lol: 

Yeah it is a learning experience. I don't mind if the batch is blown, I like the process more than anything. I tasted the syrup before putting the air lock on and it was quite nice and very sugary. Even if the bakers yeast only burns through half the sugar I think it may match non alcoholic ginger beer in sugar content (just guessing) which should make it enjoyable... unless the off flavours from the 40C start ruin it.


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## hobartbrewer

Big Nath said:


> You used 6.5kg of sugar in 21lt's, then pitched bakers yeast when it was at 40deg?
> ****.......that's gonna taste nasty.
> 
> When we (brewers) talk about pitching slightly high, we usually mean only a couple of degrees higher than intended fermentation temp. Not a bad practise, as it probably does kick it off a tad quicker, but it needs to be brought down quite quick. For the record, i don't do this, but several brewers do. The difference with only a couple of degrees can be significant to the end result of the beer, depending on the actual yeast of course.
> Pitching anything at 40deg is not "slightly high", it's ridiculous...
> 
> Without me sounding like a prick, i think you need to stop brewing and read a whole lot more before resuming.
> 
> And i'd be tipping whats in your fermenter out now if it was me.
> 
> I'm usually quite a kind and considerate person, but what you've described in your process just blows my mind.



Well I already know a fair amount about brewing, but I am always eager to learn new things and see what other experienced folk have done. The 40C pitch was just because I wanted to go to bed and couldn't wait anymore, I don't really see what the harm is if I ruined the batch because of it? It's just time and a little money, learning is priceless, or something. I was eager to see if anyone else had pitched so high and the results they had. The fact there are a few different variables here (high sugar, bakers yeast, high pitch) probably mean I'll just have to wait and see regardless.


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## sp0rk

pitching at 40C, using 6.5kg of sugar when 3 is MORE than enough , using bakers yeast and not worrying about time or money wasted on something that would have been better spent reading a little on how to make a really cracker ginger beer does seem to me like you're not really down with the brewing game yet mate
spend a good amount of time reading the site, the knowledge here is priceless
i spend a good amount of time each week just reading wiki articles and people's views on techniques
all that reading over the last 2 years has already won me a first prize for one of my beers at the local show...


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## Droughtmaster

are u sure u aint in jail and have some internet access .
who the hell would use brewers yeast apart from ya great great grandfathers.
i just asking the question


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## Droughtmaster

bakers yeast


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## hobartbrewer

Droughtmaster said:


> are u sure u aint in jail and have some internet access .
> who the hell would use brewers yeast apart from ya great great grandfathers.
> i just asking the question



Nothin wrong with asking questions! All I had at the time was bakers yeast and from the research I did there seemed to be many people who had success with it so I thought why not.

I'd love to have a sterile lab, multiple fermenting vessels, CO2 injection, etc but I don't so I just make do with what I got, just like with the bakers yeast. Just like our great granddaddys 

I do have some wine yeast now, though I'm not sure what strain. I'll try it out next time.


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## hobartbrewer

sp0rk said:


> pitching at 40C, using 6.5kg of sugar when 3 is MORE than enough , using bakers yeast and not worrying about time or money wasted on something that would have been better spent reading a little on how to make a really cracker ginger beer does seem to me like you're not really down with the brewing game yet mate
> spend a good amount of time reading the site, the knowledge here is priceless
> i spend a good amount of time each week just reading wiki articles and people's views on techniques
> all that reading over the last 2 years has already won me a first prize for one of my beers at the local show...



I wanted ginger beer with ABV of 13-15% so 3KG of sugar isn't enough to deliver that. I'm not sure if you'd call what I'm making "ginger wine" in that case, I just go with the term ginger beer because that's what I'm used to. Perhaps it's a bit ignorant of me.

And I agree this site is great and I'm not saying you aren't right about the 40C pitch ruining the whole thing. Sometimes we just have to do the best we can even if its not optimal and this ginger beer of mine was certainly that. I wanted to get it done that day and I made it happen but I also had to make compromises. So we'll see in a couple days when I open it whether it's turned into an acetone bomb or whatever I guess.  I still have faith!


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## Lakey

I guess.  I still have faith!
[/quote]
Well pray for a miracle caus :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:


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## hobartbrewer

Lakey said:


> I guess.  I still have faith!
> 
> Well pray for a miracle caus :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:



I'm wrapped in rosemary beads at the moment! A couple years back I attempted a ginger beer brew and it was way too spicey and took 3 or 4 weeks to ferment. I drank some of it but it was very hard to touch and most of it went down the drain.

This time I'm more hopeful because the syrup before closing the fermenting vessel was extremely nice with just the right amount of ginger kick and lemon acid feel.

Would I be able to smell any off smells, esters, etc in the room it is fermenting? Would some escape as gas when the CO2 does?


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## bignath

hobartbrewer said:


> A couple years back I attempted a ginger beer brew and it was way too spicey and took 3 or 4 weeks to ferment. I drank some of it but it was very hard to touch and most of it went down the drain.



If you've been brewing for "a couple of years", i fail to understand your sentiments in above posts that we have to make do with what we have etc....

that's just complete crap. 

If you've been around this game for that length of time, then that's more than long enough to know about yeast's designed for beverage production, and if you don't have a fridge or other way to keep your ferment temps down, use a big storage crate filled with water and put your fermenter in that.




I'm starting to get the feeling we may be getting the wool pulled over our eyes ahb'ers...


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## hobartbrewer

Big Nath said:


> If you've been brewing for "a couple of years", i fail to understand your sentiments in above posts that we have to make do with what we have etc....
> 
> that's just complete crap.



It's complete crap I only have the bare essentials to ferment and bottle? Ok.... I'm not going to say that I'm the most dedicated or experienced brewer out there because I am far from it. I brew for fun time to time and haven't really become obsessed with it just yet. I like it because I like making things from scratch and I like the idea of self sufficiency.



Big Nath said:


> If you've been around this game for that length of time, then that's more than long enough to know about yeast's designed for beverage production, and if you don't have a fridge or other way to keep your ferment temps down, use a big storage crate filled with water and put your fermenter in that.
> 
> I'm starting to get the feeling we may be getting the wool pulled over our eyes ahb'ers...



Plenty of people brew with bakers yeast, do a google search on it. People even use wild yeast. I'm not sure what wool I'm trying to pull over anyones eyes. I wanted to know if anyone had pitched at 40C before and what had happened. There is no conspiracy here fella.


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## Rowy

Another greeny from the mendicant state! Generate some employment and dollars down there and we'll send you some yeast! Better still scrape the yeast from Bobby Browns boyfriends tailbone and use that :angry: Self sufficiency is a two way street.!


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## labels

Well I regularly pitch lager yeast at 30C and end up with ultra clean lagers although I do chill the fermenters quick smart before fermentation really takes off.

In the old days, ginger beer was traditionally a home brewed beverage using bakers yeast. Generally, baker yeast has a low tolerence to alcohol so the alcohol content will end quite low and you will end up with a sweet ginger beer much like the old stuff, closer to a soft drink which is probably what you're looking for.

The others are correct in saying a lot of undesirable fermentation by-products are produced by fermenting too warm however, as the alcohol will most probably end up quite low, so to will the fermentation by-products.

It is very unfortunate that there is an unnacceptable level of vitriolic responses to a simple question, the others are not correct in answering questions in this manner.

Steve


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## bignath

labels said:


> Well I regularly pitch lager yeast at 30C and end up with ultra clean lagers although I do chill the fermenters quick smart before fermentation really takes off.
> 
> I would have less of a problem considering that as a scenario. I know you mainly brew lagers, i am under the assumption that you are very good at them, judging by your other posts, so i have no qualms with 30deg followed by a rapid cooling.
> But the level of control you would have over your rig compared to the op's setup means the product produced by pitching at 40deg cause he got lazy and couldn't be arsed waiting any longer will be vastly different.
> 
> .....snip....
> 
> 
> It is very unfortunate that there is an unnacceptable level of vitriolic responses to a simple question, the others are not correct in answering questions in this manner.
> 
> unnacceptable vitriolic responses to a simple question? He got his answer to his question in earlier posts.
> 
> He was also directed to multiple stores that should have better/more appropriate products for him to use to assist in creating a better product.
> He's coming across as though he couldn't give a shit about the potential problems he's about to have. That's naturally going to annoy people on a forum dedicated to doing what he's doing - fermenting.
> Im not expecting him to be the most dedicated brewer on the planet with all the flashest equipment, but it's not hard to invest $6 in a cheap plastic storage crate to ferment in and use some quality yeast from one of the suggested stores.
> 
> Nath


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## np1962

I see bigger problems than what the GB is going to taste like, which IMO will be foul.
Bottling this in anything other than sterile conditions could end in disaster.
As labels said, the bakers yeast is likely to leave an enormous amount of residual sugar. Highly unlikely you will approach anything like your intended ABV.
Given this residual sugar any wild yeast or bacteria in the bottles will end up in bombs with shards of glass going everywhere.
If you must bottle this get some champagne yeast and pitch this into the GB and let it finish out completely before you do.
I'd be chucking it now, you probably will eventually.


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## Spork

I wonder if the OP has an Indian friend who makes pishab?


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## Guysmiley54

+1 for reals!!

This is very dangerous mate. I'm in Hobart too and Amanda at the shop in Liverpool Street can give you enough advice to help you in the future. Experiments can be fun but safety is no laughing matter.



NigeP62 said:


> I see bigger problems than what the GB is going to taste like, which IMO will be foul.
> Bottling this in anything other than sterile conditions could end in disaster.
> As labels said, the bakers yeast is likely to leave an enormous amount of residual sugar. Highly unlikely you will approach anything like your intended ABV.
> Given this residual sugar any wild yeast or bacteria in the bottles will end up in bombs with shards of glass going everywhere.
> If you must bottle this get some champagne yeast and pitch this into the GB and let it finish out completely before you do.
> I'd be chucking it now, you probably will eventually.


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## hobartbrewer

NigeP62 said:


> I see bigger problems than what the GB is going to taste like, which IMO will be foul.
> Bottling this in anything other than sterile conditions could end in disaster.
> As labels said, the bakers yeast is likely to leave an enormous amount of residual sugar. Highly unlikely you will approach anything like your intended ABV.
> Given this residual sugar any wild yeast or bacteria in the bottles will end up in bombs with shards of glass going everywhere.
> If you must bottle this get some champagne yeast and pitch this into the GB and let it finish out completely before you do.
> I'd be chucking it now, you probably will eventually.



Thanks for the advice. In anticipation of all the sugar not coming out I decided to get some plastic brew bottles. If there is excess sugar left I'll just watch them carefully for a few hours after bottling for carbing before putting them in the fridge to go dormant. 

Bakers yeast is quite variable from what I've read, some people get 5%, some get 14%. My hydrometer measured ~14% or 1.106 when I started. There's been no slowdown to this stage, so I'm hopeful this bakers yeast can do 14% and eat the sugar. My major concern is what the initial 40C pitch is going to do in regards to any negative flavours and such as the others have pointed out. If this brew only turns out 5% alcohol but no off flavours then thats a win. I don't mind a sweet drink. It was sickly sweet at the start but if the yeast only eats half of it and with carbing it should be a nice sweet, I hope. 

If the yeast does consume all the sugar I planned on adding sugar to the final result anyway, so I need plastic bottles regardless. All on the assumption its drinkable of course.


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## hobartbrewer

Guysmiley54 said:


> +1 for reals!!
> 
> This is very dangerous mate. I'm in Hobart too and Amanda at the shop in Liverpool Street can give you enough advice to help you in the future. Experiments can be fun but safety is no laughing matter.



Hey nice to meet another Hobartian. I'll have to give that store a look, I went into Brew By You at Moonah that sp0rk posted and they seemed really friendly. Didn't quite have the wine yeast I was after but, oh well.

As to safety, yeah I agree it can be dangerous. The way I see it though is if I end up killing myself due to something I've done then there's no one else to blame but myself. Hopefully I'm educated enough on brewing to avoid a death!  Famous last words I guess because I'll have to taste this ginger beer brew! Do you want a bottle to taste?


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## hobartbrewer

Big Nath said:


> unnacceptable vitriolic responses to a simple question? He got his answer to his question in earlier posts.



Well it would be nice if people had first hand experience with 40C pitching, but it seems people here aren't as silly as me!



Big Nath said:


> He was also directed to multiple stores that should have better/more appropriate products for him to use to assist in creating a better product.
> He's coming across as though he couldn't give a shit about the potential problems he's about to have. That's naturally going to annoy people on a forum dedicated to doing what he's doing - fermenting.
> Im not expecting him to be the most dedicated brewer on the planet with all the flashest equipment, but it's not hard to invest $6 in a cheap plastic storage crate to ferment in and use some quality yeast from one of the suggested stores.




I don't really care about the increased potential for off flavours for this batch because it's already fermenting, there's nothing I can do now about the 40C pitch. Why should I throw it out and start again? I'd rather be certain it's ruined before ditching it. 

Like I said in my first post, I knew I should have pitched it around 28C but I wanted to go to bed (long day) and I was already doing all the cooling methods possible. I only had bakers yeast so I used that.

I'm an amateur doing the best with the equipment I had at the time, nothing else to it really. It certainly could have been done better, and it would have been if I had more time, but nevertheless it happened and I'm fine with it. It's funny that other people are more upset about this batch being ruined than I am!


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## hobartbrewer

labels said:


> Well I regularly pitch lager yeast at 30C and end up with ultra clean lagers although I do chill the fermenters quick smart before fermentation really takes off.
> 
> In the old days, ginger beer was traditionally a home brewed beverage using bakers yeast. Generally, baker yeast has a low tolerence to alcohol so the alcohol content will end quite low and you will end up with a sweet ginger beer much like the old stuff, closer to a soft drink which is probably what you're looking for.
> 
> The others are correct in saying a lot of undesirable fermentation by-products are produced by fermenting too warm however, as the alcohol will most probably end up quite low, so to will the fermentation by-products.
> 
> It is very unfortunate that there is an unnacceptable level of vitriolic responses to a simple question, the others are not correct in answering questions in this manner.
> 
> Steve



Thanks for the info. My granddad used to make non alcoholic ginger beer for us like 25 years ago and his recipe is one I followed mainly. The reason I went with 6KG sugar is because either I'd get a high alcoholic non sweet version (that I'd add sugar too) or a sweet semi alcoholic drink with no other messing about. Gillespie's Ginger Beer over here make a drink very similar to his so that's kinda what I'm aiming for. 

My hope is the 40C pitch didn't create too many off flavours because the yeast were still in the aerobic phase, but maybe I'm just clutching at straws there.


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## bignath

hobartbrewer said:


> My major concern is what the initial 40C pitch is going to do in regards to any negative flavours and such as the others have pointed out.



and 20mins later...



hobartbrewer said:


> I don't really care about the increased potential for off flavours for this batch because it's already fermenting, there's nothing I can do now about the 40C pitch....



and 5mins later...



hobartbrewer said:


> My hope is the 40C pitch didn't create too many off flavours because the yeast were still in the aerobic phase, but maybe I'm just clutching at straws there.




FFS...


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## np1962

If you are confident in your sanitation you could of sealed it up in the fermenter and gone to bed.
Would of been no harm leaving it for 12 hours and pitching at the correct temps.

High temp ferments will give increased amounts of the higher alcohols such as
3-methylbutanol (isoamyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-CH2-OH
2-methylbutanol (active amyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH(CH3)-CH2-OH
2-methylpropanol (isobutyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-OH
1-propanol (n-propyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH2-OH
leading to undrinkable beer/wine/GB and when consumed can, anecdotally at least, leave the drinker with a massive hangover.

And even the use of plastic bottles does not guarantee there will be no risk of injury.
Experimentation can be fun but even the best scientists take precautions. B) 
Nige


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## sp0rk

To be honest i have pitched at 40c before
but it was in a batch of Kilju (finnish fermented sugar and lemon water) that conked out around 16%abv (i have made a 25%abv batch through fractional freezing)
it was the most vile thing i have ever tasted, and i vomited quite violently after drinking a couple of glasses of it


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## Guysmiley54

hobartbrewer said:


> Hey nice to meet another Hobartian. I'll have to give that store a look, I went into Brew By You at Moonah that sp0rk posted and they seemed really friendly. Didn't quite have the wine yeast I was after but, oh well.
> 
> As to safety, yeah I agree it can be dangerous. The way I see it though is if I end up killing myself due to something I've done then there's no one else to blame but myself. Hopefully I'm educated enough on brewing to avoid a death!  Famous last words I guess because I'll have to taste this ginger beer brew! Do you want a bottle to taste?



Brew By You is OK but THBS supports wine and beer makers so I'd bet they would have wine and champagne yeast strains on hand. The shop in Moonah is pretty basic really. They store their hops and yeast at room temperature and the few times I've been there the staff have very little knowledge beyond basic kit brewing... I won't shop there any more based on the quality of the product on offer.

Thanks for the offer of a taste... I might pass on this batch! It is good to see more Hobart folk on the forum though


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## hobartbrewer

sp0rk said:


> To be honest i have pitched at 40c before
> but it was in a batch of Kilju (finnish fermented sugar and lemon water) that conked out around 16%abv (i have made a 25%abv batch through fractional freezing)
> it was the most vile thing i have ever tasted, and i vomited quite violently after drinking a couple of glasses of it



Interesting. How did you get through a couple glasses if it was so vile?  My last ginger beer batch 4 years ago I wasn't sure if it was just me being paranoid or there was something "unhealthy" about drinking it, maybe got a glass through and said "nah". But the wort I fermented wasn't great and I felt I totally overdid the spice. Did you taste the Kilju before putting the yeast in? The one positive I have about this ginger beer batch is how great it tasted at the start. Like a lovely ginger syrup you'd just add carbonated water to.


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## hobartbrewer

NigeP62 said:


> If you are confident in your sanitation you could of sealed it up in the fermenter and gone to bed.
> Would of been no harm leaving it for 12 hours and pitching at the correct temps.
> 
> High temp ferments will give increased amounts of the higher alcohols such as
> 3-methylbutanol (isoamyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-CH2-OH
> 2-methylbutanol (active amyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH(CH3)-CH2-OH
> 2-methylpropanol (isobutyl alcohol): (CH3)2-CH-CH2-OH
> 1-propanol (n-propyl alcohol): CH3-CH2-CH2-OH
> leading to undrinkable beer/wine/GB and when consumed can, anecdotally at least, leave the drinker with a massive hangover.
> 
> And even the use of plastic bottles does not guarantee there will be no risk of injury.
> Experimentation can be fun but even the best scientists take precautions. B)
> Nige



Hi Nige, well is there anything in my theory that since the yeast weren't producing alcohol for the initial hours that the wort had cooled by the time they went into anaerobic (and hence alcohol) production? From my limited understanding of yeast I thought when they were breathing oxygen they wouldn't be producing alcohol.


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## sp0rk

hobartbrewer said:


> Interesting. How did you get through a couple glasses if it was so vile?  My last ginger beer batch 4 years ago I wasn't sure if it was just me being paranoid or there was something "unhealthy" about drinking it, maybe got a glass through and said "nah". But the wort I fermented wasn't great and I felt I totally overdid the spice. Did you taste the Kilju before putting the yeast in? The one positive I have about this ginger beer batch is how great it tasted at the start. Like a lovely ginger syrup you'd just add carbonated water to.


when you're in your mid twenties and have had a couple of scotch and cokes, you'll swill anything if your mates egg you on enough...


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## kelbygreen

didnt read this thread as it should only be a one post solution! pitch the yeast at the temp of your wort and have the wort very close to the fermenting temp. simple, easy, and less BS. done


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## hobartbrewer

sp0rk said:


> when you're in your mid twenties and have had a couple of scotch and cokes, you'll swill anything if your mates egg you on enough...



Haha yeah.... maybe it was the high alcohol content of your brew that made you chunder though? A couple glasses of 16% alcohol after some scotch and cokes... sounds like a big order!


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## staggalee

hobartbrewer said:


> Well it would be nice if people had first hand experience with 40C pitching, but it seems people here aren't as silly as me.



Yes, it does seem that way.
They`re a strange lot on here.


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## DUANNE

i always try to pitch a couple of degrees les than i intend to ferment and feel that it really is giving me better results than when i was just pitching at near enough is good enough temps. 40 though i can only imagine how bad thats going to taste and just how bad the morning after consumption is going to be :icon_vomit:


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## NewtownClown

I smell a troll


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## jyo

NewtownClown said:


> I smell a troll



Same, but just will give him the benefit of the yasmani. 

Just wondering, if you're planning to carb them in the bottle, wouldn't adding priming sugar be redundant if the yeast has already packed it in?


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## np1962

hobartbrewer said:


> Hi Nige, well is there anything in my theory that since the yeast weren't producing alcohol for the initial hours that the wort had cooled by the time they went into anaerobic (and hence alcohol) production? From my limited understanding of yeast I thought when they were breathing oxygen they wouldn't be producing alcohol.


You started at 40 and are fermenting around 28C. 
I am no expert on Bakers Yeast but if it was most of the brewing strains I'd say it is still too high a temp for producing a decent drink.


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## hobartbrewer

jyo said:


> Same, but just will give him the benefit of the yasmani.
> 
> Just wondering, if you're planning to carb them in the bottle, wouldn't adding priming sugar be redundant if the yeast has already packed it in?



Possibly, depends if the yeast carked it because of high alcohol or lack of nutrients I guess? I don't have much experience in bottling high alcohol strains where the yeast has died before it could take all the sugar. I'm thinking at least some yeast will be alive and it may just take some time to carb up.


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## hobartbrewer

NigeP62 said:


> You started at 40 and are fermenting around 28C.
> I am no expert on Bakers Yeast but if it was most of the brewing strains I'd say it is still too high a temp for producing a decent drink.



On the second day it was between 26 and 28, but for most of the time it's been fermenting at 22->24 . But either way it's hard to know if its going to be drinkable or not given the high starting pitch and possibly high second day of fermenting there. From what I've read some people had beer go to 30 for 24 hours and it was still drinkable.

I'm only going on the "Sticker thermometer" that's on the side of the vessel. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but the room the vessel is in fluctuates between 18 -> 21C.

Don't confuse my hope with it being alright with the fact I know it has a higher chance of being crap! Gotta have faith sometimes.


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## hobartbrewer

So I poured a sample today to see how this was going. It was about 3% alcohol according to the hydrometer. I guess I didn't pitch enough yeast and it's been going steady but slower than expected, so I dropped another bakers yeast sachet into it.

Taste was ok, so hoping it's going to be drinkable.


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## Screwtop

Enjoying the pishab here


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## hobartbrewer

The extra bakers yeast sachel did speed things up a little bit, but not as much as I had hoped. I dropped in some champagne yeast starter and it seems to be going faster now.

The bakers yeast didn't produce any off flavours to this point and it tastes pretty good, but it certainly seems slower than it should be, 3-4% alcohol in 8 days is too slow. It could have been me under pitching it though.


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## bignath

hobartbrewer said:


> It could have been me under pitching it though.



:lol: :lol: 

HA HA!

That's fucken funny.

Trust me, underpitching is the least of your problems with regard to the quality of the beverage you're about to produce.


you've got to be a troll surely...


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## hobartbrewer

Big Nath said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> HA HA!
> 
> That's fucken funny.
> 
> Trust me, underpitching is the least of your problems with regard to the quality of the beverage you're about to produce.
> 
> 
> you've got to be a troll surely...



My granddad only made ginger beer with bakers yeast (non alcoholic but still). So I'm not sure why you think it's a big issue like you make it out to be. How many brews have you made with bakers yeast to form an opinion? How many 40C pitches have you done? None? Maybe worry less about homebrew folklore and do some experiments yourself. And stop trolling in this thread please, if you have nothing new to add don't add it.


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## bignath

hobartbrewer said:


> My granddad only made ginger beer with bakers yeast (non alcoholic but still). So I'm not sure why you think it's a big issue like you make it out to be. How many brews have you made with bakers yeast to form an opinion? How many 40C pitches have you done? None? Maybe worry less about homebrew folklore and do some experiments yourself. And stop trolling in this thread please, if you have nothing new to add don't add it.



You're right.

I haven't used Baker's Yeast in a brew. Ever. There's a good reason for that.
I have never pitched yeast into 40deg wort either. There's a good reason for that too.

I use yeast more appropriate for alcoholic beverage production.
I pitch my more appropriate yeast at a more appropriate temp.
I listen to the advice i get given when i post questions. I read a lot. I learn a lot. I put into practises the advice given to my questions.
This all assists me in making quality beer.

Making beer is not rocket science. 
Appropriate ingredients and appropriate processes will always yield good results.
I'm all for experimentation, but there are experiments and then there is wasting your time.

This forum isn't an exclusive club or anything like that, but do you wonder why the other experienced brewers on this forum have also told you that (not necassarily in these exact terms)what your doing is pointless?
One thing that does ruffle the feathers of regular contributors here is when people ask for advice, get given advice and then completely disregard it anyway - particularly in the name of "an experiment" or "hope it'll turn out" etc...when experience tells us it's gonna be shit.

I experiment a lot with my brewing. I spend a lot of time experimenting with equipment, processes, recipe formulation. You're making a large assumption stating i should do some experiments myself.
But the things i don't **** with, are the things that are considered worldwide to be the most appropriate conventions of beer production.

I'm far from perfect. I've got lots of things i don't understand about brewing....at the moment it's electronics and automation.
I ask questions about it. I get answers about it. I learn stuff, I take the advice and I put it into practice.

I will say one thing though......You sure are polite.


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## Diesel80

Big Nath said:


> I will say one thing though......You sure are polite.



LOL +1, he/she is very polite.

Probably have more luck making gingerbread than ginger beverage however I am kind of interested in how it turns out.
Got a youtube channel HB? Would love to see a tasting video.

D80


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## hobartbrewer

Diesel80 said:


> LOL +1, he/she is very polite.
> 
> Probably have more luck making gingerbread than ginger beverage however I am kind of interested in how it turns out.
> Got a youtube channel HB? Would love to see a tasting video.
> 
> D80



Well I've already tasted 3-4% non carbed brew from this batch and its pretty tasty (still too sweet, but carbed it may be bearable). So I know the 40C pitch hasn't severely affected the flavour to this point in time. When I put the bakers yeast in initially I only dropped a half 7G packet into it thinking maybe it would be less "bready" due to the other components in it, and with the amount of aeration and the temp I figured it would be enough, but nope.

The champagne yeast is better at processing this high sugar brew as it went from 1 every 5 second blowing to 1 every 2.5 , and this was after dumping a new 7G bakers yeast in the day before. I wanted to keep this batch entirely bakers yeast but I don't really want to wait 4 weeks for it to complete due to my under pitch.... I know from the two samples I've had to this point in time the bakers yeast has been fine in regards to the tastes I had out of the hydrometer container. Hopefully the mixing of the yeasts works out ok too.

I may post a youtube video of it if I get the time and motivation, the older and fatter I get the more I need to drink to remember the good old days!


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## hobartbrewer

Big Nath said:


> You're right.
> 
> I haven't used Baker's Yeast in a brew. Ever. There's a good reason for that.
> I have never pitched yeast into 40deg wort either. There's a good reason for that too.



If you're seeking the perfect Lager, don't use bakers yeast. I'm making ginger beer here man, and bakers yeast works pretty well for it. That's my experience. Bakers yeast will work pretty well for any type of wine too, not the best or the fastest, but it'll work. I have the feeling some guys here take their brewing very serious and are upset when others do it the "Low cost" way or with inferior products and setups. But that's life man, it's not like everyone has to drink this! I just look back a few hundred years and what they were doing. What I'm doing looks high tech in comparison. 



Big Nath said:


> I use yeast more appropriate for alcoholic beverage production.



Well my under pitched bakers yeast got my ginger beer to 4% alcohol in nearly a week and to a lot of people that's a decent ABV for ginger beer. And unless you want to believe I'm lying, the taste is alright too (just too sweet due to my 6.5KG sugar).



Big Nath said:


> This forum isn't an exclusive club or anything like that, but do you wonder why the other experienced brewers on this forum have also told you that (not necassarily in these exact terms)what your doing is pointless?
> One thing that does ruffle the feathers of regular contributors here is when people ask for advice, get given advice and then completely disregard it anyway - particularly in the name of "an experiment" or "hope it'll turn out" etc...when experience tells us it's gonna be shit.



Well you have no direct experience in what I'm doing turning shit so it's a bit rich to say it will for certain and I should dump it instead of waiting to see. If I was fine with a 4% ABV ginger beer everything I've done to this point in time has led to a drinkable alcoholic ginger beer. 

And I read and listen to what people are saying and suggesting, that's why I went and got some wine yeast to play with next, and for this high alcohol brew I'm trying to make it is certainly faster.



Big Nath said:


> I experiment a lot with my brewing. I spend a lot of time experimenting with equipment, processes, recipe formulation. You're making a large assumption stating i should do some experiments myself.
> But the things i don't **** with, are the things that are considered worldwide to be the most appropriate conventions of beer production.



Well personally I'd rather have the experience of creating acetone or vinegar or botulism than not, if that was what happens. I'm fine with it. I like to learn, what can I say.


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## glenwal

hobartbrewer said:


> Well personally I'd rather have the experience of creating acetone or vinegar or botulism than not, if that was what happens. I'm fine with it. I like to learn, what can I say.



I never really understood why people have to try things in the name of "learning". 

Does dog poop taste good? Don't tell me it doesn't unless you've tried it. And if you haven't tried it, then you should because its the only way you'll learn.


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## Screwtop

hobartbrewer said:


> My granddad only made ginger beer with bakers yeast (non alcoholic but still).



Interesting !!


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## hobartbrewer

Glen W said:


> I never really understood why people have to try things in the name of "learning".
> 
> Does dog poop taste good? Don't tell me it doesn't unless you've tried it. And if you haven't tried it, then you should because its the only way you'll learn.



Well bakers yeast ginger beer may not taste pleasant to you, but it does to me. I don't like guinness, but I don't call it dog poop.  My preference is to make something drinkable , but if I don't then it's good to know why I didn't.

For instance some people here said 40C pitch would ruin it, it didn't, this time. There is homebrew folklore and homebrew reality. Often it's hard to know which is which, especially when there are so many variables to consider.


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## hobartbrewer

Screwtop said:


> Interesting !!



Well he said it was, obviously it would have _something_ in it. Surprisingly he was a heavy alcoholic in his past and he never had a drink after about 45 years of age.... except this ginger beer of his.... he died recently which is why I'm giving his recipe another whirl.


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## GalBrew

If you really don't want to go to a LHBS and get a proper brewing yeast, the homebrew section at Big W has brewing yeast. I wouldn't use it as I have no idea what it is, but it isn't expensive and has to be more appropriate for ethanol production than bakers yeast??


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## hobartbrewer

AdamFromWH said:


> If you really don't want to go to a LHBS and get a proper brewing yeast, the homebrew section at Big W has brewing yeast. I wouldn't use it as I have no idea what it is, but it isn't expensive and has to be more appropriate for ethanol production than bakers yeast??



I went to a homebrew store and got some champagne yeast already. I'll try and keep a sample of this yeast going so I can use it in the future if its any good. I added some to my ginger beer already to speed it up.


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## NewtownClown

I really hope the underptch doesn't ruin your ginger vinegar beer...


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## gravey

what you might want to try next time is a couple of cans of coopers ginger beer extract, you can make a surprisingly good ginger beer using this, especially if you add some grated ginger, buderim ginger refresher, chilli and some lemon or lime zest and juice. I only use 1 can and 1KG of dextrose as I want it to be a refreshing summer drink, but if you like it strong try doubling both the extract and the dex. If you like it sweet add lactose after fermentation is complete as lactose is unfermentable.


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## mikec

gravey said:


> what you might want to try next time is a couple of cans of coopers ginger beer extract, you can make a surprisingly good ginger beer using this, especially if you add some grated ginger, buderim ginger refresher, chilli and some lemon or lime zest and juice. I only use 1 can and 1KG of dextrose as I want it to be a refreshing summer drink, but if you like it strong try doubling both the extract and the dex. If you like it sweet add lactose after fermentation is complete as lactose is unfermentable.


The Coopers kit is plenty sweet as it is. It has sweetener in it.
Other than I agree, I've made some decent GB's by adding to the Coopers kit.


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## gravey

mikec said:


> The Coopers kit is plenty sweet as it is. It has sweetener in it.



Agree, but it can finish up quite dry. I kegged mine last week and it finished up below 1.000. The beauty of back sweetening is you dont have to play a guessing game with sweetness. If you want it sweeter (personally I dont, I like it dry and refreshing) you can get the ratios right in a glass and then apply that ratio to your brew. It sounds like the OP likes it sweet, hence the advice.


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## mikec

gravey said:


> Agree, but it can finish up quite dry. I kegged mine last week and it finished up below 1.000. The beauty of back sweetening is you dont have to play a guessing game with sweetness. If you want it sweeter (personally I dont, I like it dry and refreshing) you can get the ratios right in a glass and then apply that ratio to your brew. It sounds like the OP likes it sweet, hence the advice.


Finishing at 1.000 is well and good (mine have done that too) but this doesn't reduce the sweetness of the sweetener. That remains.
I find the Coopers kit, even at 1.000, very sweet.
Personal taste I guess.


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## gravey

Gotcha...... Either way, it seems about right for me and it sounds like you agree - certainly doesnt need any more sweetening. The OP may not agree considering he was aiming for 14% ABV OR a ******* sweet ginger beer with a tonne of residual sugar, which clearly isnt the way to get sweetness unless you like exploding bottles. So my point remains - to get additional sweetness use lactose after ferment, that's all I was trying to say really.

TBH I havent made ginger beer since last summer, for me its an easy drinking, refreshing drink. Not something I want to get shitfaced off after 2 drinks and not something I want to taste like lollie water. From memory, its not so sweet that I want to puke, but I get your point about it having a degree of sweetness to it no matter how far it ferments out.


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## hobartbrewer

gravey said:


> what you might want to try next time is a couple of cans of coopers ginger beer extract, you can make a surprisingly good ginger beer using this, especially if you add some grated ginger, buderim ginger refresher, chilli and some lemon or lime zest and juice. I only use 1 can and 1KG of dextrose as I want it to be a refreshing summer drink, but if you like it strong try doubling both the extract and the dex. If you like it sweet add lactose after fermentation is complete as lactose is unfermentable.



Yeah I've read on the forum here that many people like the coopers ginger beer kit. My main problem with it though is it has artificial sweeteners in it I believe, and I tend to stay away from such things. I know when I have low carb beer which I believe has the same things in it that it affects me. Does anyone know if low carb beer has artificial sweeteners?

My own concoction tastes pretty good currently, more expensive than a kit but alas, it's all natural ingredients too. I won't know what it's properly like until I bottle it though.... I just hope the high alcohol content doesn't ruin it and that no other issues crop up between now and then. I usually haven't tested my other brews multiple times with a hydrometer and added 2 different extra yeasts whilst its fermenting.....


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## sp0rk

Dr Smurto's GB is pretty darn good

1-1.25kg of fresh ginger
4-6 cloves
1 stick cinnamon
a few lemons, sliced
Dex or raw sugar to hit your desired abv
Champagne yeast .


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## hobartbrewer

My recipe was like this :-

800g fresh ginger fully blended
8 lemons, fully blended
1 lime, fully blended
A handful of sultanas

So I would boil 2 litres of water in this mash, mix in as much sugar as would dissolve, then filter it into the fermenter, and repeated until I had 12 litres of boiled essence. Then filled to 21L with water.

Then I added some honey and some golden syrup and some extra dried ginger for some more spice.


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## sp0rk

That seems like a good recipe, I'm told some chilli gives it a very nice bite too


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## hobartbrewer

sp0rk said:


> That seems like a good recipe, I'm told some chilli gives it a very nice bite too



Yeah I'll have to try some chilli one day. I'm not sure what I'll do for my next brew, I kinda feel like making something tropical. Any ideas?


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## QldKev

A better way to get your yeast is head to the local brothel. Get one of the ladies to squat over the fermenter for a while, enough yeasties will get into the beer.


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## hobartbrewer

I drained off my first 750ml bottle of this brew two days ago. It was roughly 6-7% alcohol at the time. I let it carb for a while then sit in the fridge and freezer at alternating times. It didn't end up carbing very much but I drank it anyhow.

It was "ok", drinkable but not the best ginger beer I've had and has a slight after taste (perhaps the lemon pith I added). I think it needs time to get a bit non green. I'm going to let the main batch ferment out to 14% and then wait a few days after that so perhaps it can "clean up after itself". I'll just mix it with lemonade or ginger beer as 14% is probably going to be a bit too strong to drink straight enjoyably, but I'll see I guess.


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## hobartbrewer

3 weeks to the night I started this and its still bubbling, though mighty slow now. It's approx 11% alcohol, reading 1030 on the hydrometer.


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## glenwal

hobartbrewer said:


> and its still bubbling



Whats your atmospheric pressure like? The faster it drops, the faster your fermenter will bubble.


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## jammer

NewtownClown said:


> I really hope the underptch doesn't ruin your ginger vinegar beer...



Marty made a funny!I admit I laughed and snorted.


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## bignath

Or it could be CO2 venting itself...

Just sayin'...


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## jammer

Big Nath said:


> Or it could be CO2 venting itself...
> 
> Just sayin'...



You are right. On reflection, it was definitely co2. Marty never made a funny before....Must've been a typo. Phew.


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