# Home Brew Tasts Like Apple Cider



## bernieszy (17/6/08)

I have been brewing for several months using Coopers larger with all going well then one day all my brews turned to apple cider or some other foul tasting brew.
I use Coopers yeast under the lid, dextrose from bin inn (bulked packed) Bin Inn sells bulk loose goods, not sure of the quality. I clean using bleach 1/2 cup to my brew barrel and other gear the bottles get cleaned in a cap ful. I have used a scrubing brush to clean the barrel since day 1.
Any ideas what my problem is and the best way to get back on track

Bernie


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## matti (17/6/08)

There are 3 major reason why it may taste like apple cider.

1. You may not have sufficient amount of yeast or the temperature you brewing at doesn't suit the yeast.

2. A fair amount of Dextrose or sugar makes the beer thin and gives it a cidery texture.

3. Occasionally infection can cause the beer taste cidery as well.


You can easily improve this by rigid temperature control, sufficient amount of yeast pitched at right temperature and exchange the dextrose you use with either a brew enhancer like Coopers BE1 or BE2.

These pack contains dried malt mixed with dextrose some malto-dextrine.


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## brettprevans (17/6/08)

cidery taste is often referred to as 'green apple taste'. theres a technical name for it but im not about to try and spell it. basically a lot of it come from temps being too high or infection.

I doubt yours is infection based (although you shouldnt be using a scxrubbing brush as that will scour the plastic and leave grooves that bactria etc can more easily breed in). Best get some propoer cleaner also. 1/2 cup bleech sounds like way way too much. im suprised your not getting a soapy sort of taste. bleech is great for killing off anything. but as a regular clean something like nappysan (or elcheapo equiv) is fine or something like starsan (which is no rinse). 

Kits are notoriously bad for producing green apple/cider tastes as the stupid kit instructions tell you to brew at too high a temp. normal ale yeast is best around 18C. lager yeast around 12C (a a general guide). 

Best to have a read of some of the common FAQ on the wiki.


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## mfdes (17/6/08)

Acetaldehyde

Too much fully fermentable sugar is a problem, it makes the beer thin and reminds us of apple cider.
Also if the beer has not matured properly in the fermenter there will be acetaldehyde remaining in it which the yeast has not had time to re-absorb. This will definetly taste like apples.

MFS.


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## brettprevans (17/6/08)

mfdes said:


> Acetaldehyde
> MFS.


Thanks MFS. No way was I going to get the speeeling on that right.

Its a bloody awful thing. I have had one brew since I got back into HBing (last 18months) thats had Acetaldehyde and it was from poor temp control (actually it was from being Blas about what and how I brewed this particular batch, using a lower quality lager ingredients bill and using an ale yeast at slightly too high temps). its not too bad but its like drinking granny smith beer. I decided to drink the lot though as a reminder to myself to make better beer.

wow whata long winded response. Hope theres something in there thats of use to you.


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## clay (17/6/08)

I recently had a couple of brews made with old US56 dried yeast that had the green apple taste. Both ferments were slow to take off. 
Dont drink too much of this beer as you'll feel it the next day!


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## brettprevans (17/6/08)

Ive only had great results with US56. its usually not to do with the yeast itself. just how the yeast is treated (ie subjecting it to high temps if its not a high temp yeast is bad). 

Coopers etc has a lot to answer for for putting crqppy instructions on its kits regarding temp. it has to be the biggest cause of Acetaldehyde in brewing (esp with new brewers).


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## itguy1953 (17/6/08)

bernieszy said:


> I have been brewing for several months using Coopers larger with all going well then one day all my brews turned to apple cider or some other foul tasting brew.
> I use Coopers yeast under the lid, dextrose from bin inn (bulked packed) Bin Inn sells bulk loose goods, not sure of the quality. I clean using bleach 1/2 cup to my brew barrel and other gear the bottles get cleaned in a cap ful. I have used a scrubing brush to clean the barrel since day 1.
> Any ideas what my problem is and the best way to get back on track
> 
> Bernie



Dextrose by itself will not give you an apple flavour. Just gives no taste, but ethanol. Table sugar can give apple cider taste.

Most likely sources of apple flavour are contamination, under pitching of yeast or wrong yeast temp (ie. too hot or too cold).

To reduce chances of infection, put the dextrose and can contents into a large saucepan with 1-2 litres of water and bring temp up to 90 degC and hold for 5 minutes. Then pour this into your fermenter and fill with cold water. 

With under pitching, make sure you hydrate your yeast in warm water (cooled after boiling) first, and then pitch. Better still, keep some of the yeast cake from a previous brew and pitch that.

The Coopers Yeast under the lid is crap, and you would be better to invest in a yeast from your LHBS. I use Saflager S23 which will ferment as low as 5degC. This is a lager yeast. 

The Coopers yeast is an Ale yeast and needs a minimum of 18degC. If it gets colder, it struggles and can allow infections to get a foothold. It can also produce off flavours.

Barry


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## pablo_h (17/6/08)

bernieszy said:


> I have been brewing for several months using Coopers larger with all going well then one day all my brews turned to apple cider or some other foul tasting brew.
> I use Coopers yeast under the lid, dextrose from bin inn (bulked packed) Bin Inn sells bulk loose goods, not sure of the quality. I clean using bleach 1/2 cup to my brew barrel and other gear the bottles get cleaned in a cap ful. I have used a scrubing brush to clean the barrel since day 1.
> Any ideas what my problem is and the best way to get back on track
> 
> Bernie


1)Bleach has a use by date, it deteriorates, when it's cloudy, it's not good.
2)Bleach sanatises by turning into HCL acid, if the Ph isn't low enough, there's not enough acid formed. Adding malt vinegar to the water helps drop the Ph.
3)All bleaches aren't equal, some have low concentrations of chlorine, and boost up whiteners so your laundry comes out white, don't use the name brands with under 5% sodium hyperchlorite w/v
4)Scrubbing the fermenter is bad, bacteria can harbour inside the fine scratches
5)Remember to unscrew the fermenter tap, lot's of crap stays inside the threads.
6)when rinsing off bleach, use nothing except boiling water

I gave up using bleach because there's a lot of bother when using it. I ended up using starsan, even though it's $45 for a litre, it will last over a year or two, you only use 10ml for a whole fermenter treatment.
Trick with starsan is if you use distilled water with it it doesn't need to be thrown out. Put 2ml in a trigger pack with de-ionised water and keep it at hand to spray everything with through a whole brew batch.

edit: other than those sanatation hints, I can honestly say brewing with detrose, can dried yeasts under the lid and adding no hops, home brew has always tasted bad to me. Proper well treated yeasts looked after and rehydrated has helped me, malt has made my beers taste nicer than dextrose, hops which are a preservate had helped my brews along, boiling all the ingrediants before yeast pitching has helped protect from infection and off flavours. But as you had some success without doing all the things I needed to do, I thought I'd just make these factors a minor footnote.


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