# Brewing With Cocoa



## steve78 (6/7/10)

Hey all,

Anyone got much experience on brewing with Cocoa? I am currently fermenting an AG Choc Stout at 20 degrees, gone down to about 17 with the cold weather now at day 6, all up there's 5.15kg grains, 500g Lactose, 200g cocoa. 
Beersmith estimates 1014FG without inputting the Cocoa into the bill (cause it aint in the list and I don't know ther fermentability of it), its stuck on 1022 for two days now even after a small agitation. 

Its a moderate 1056OG 23.5L batch with Safale S-04 rehydrated yeast (I rarely use this yeast so have not much experience with it). In tasting the wort, the choc flavour is just amazing, but it appears stuck on 1022. 

Has anyone had experience with brewing with Cocoa? Is any percentage of the Cocoa fermentable? If not, then I can imagine the FG being somewhat higher, but not sure by how much. 

Do I have a stuck ferment, if so, should I bottle with less carbonation? Or, should I wait a bit longer?

Would appreciate any advice anyone can provide here

Cheers,
Steve


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## Hogan (6/7/10)

steve78 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Anyone got much experience on brewing with Cocoa? I am currently fermenting an AG Choc Stout at 20 degrees, gone down to about 17 with the cold weather now at day 6, all up there's 5.15kg grains, 500g Lactose, 200g cocoa.
> Beersmith estimates 1014FG without inputting the Cocoa into the bill (cause it aint in the list and I don't know ther fermentability of it), its stuck on 1022 for two days now even after a small agitation.
> ...



Wow 200g of cocoa seems huge. I did a choc porter first and used 40g of pure cocoa and it was too strong. Halved that in a hazelnut porter next time and it was just right. Added it at flame out. Day 6 is still early. Let it go for ten days.

Cheers, Hoges.


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## Wolfy (6/7/10)

Hogan said:


> Wow 200g of cocoa seems huge. I did a choc porter first and used 40g of pure cocoa and it was too strong.


JZ suggests 227g for the Black Forest Stout in Brewing Classic styles.
Also suggested is to use unsweetened low fat cocoa, most likely since it contains little to no fermentables.


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## Josh (7/7/10)

I'd say the low fat is to reduce head problems.

I used 200g of cocoa in my chocolate roggenbock. Added the cocoa in the cube. No idea how it's going cos the beer is lagering for 8 weeks while I'm in the USA. But I bottled some young beer and it was well received at NHC. So I thnk 200g is about right.


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## browndog (7/7/10)

Hogan said:


> Wow 200g of cocoa seems huge. I did a choc porter first and used 40g of pure cocoa and it was too strong. Halved that in a hazelnut porter next time and it was just right. Added it at flame out. Day 6 is still early. Let it go for ten days.
> 
> Cheers, Hoges.



I used 375g in the winter warmer that won our BABBs comp Hoges. 

cheers

Browndog


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## tallie (7/7/10)

I've used up to 500g unsweetened cocoa powder in a 23L batch of "imperial" chocolate porter before (~7%ABV) with FG 1.025. Tasted like liquid dark chocolate during fermentation and the strong dark chocolate flavours were quite well balanced in the end with the rest of the beer.

The cocoa was added to the no-chill cube before the wort was drained on top of it, which ended up presenting a bit of a problem with mixing it in properly (not sure what I'd do about that next time). I got most of it into the fermenter, and after 18 days, about 4-5L of cocoa/yeast sludge had settled on the bottom of the fermenter.

Cheers,
tallie.

Edit: As per browndog, this was for the Winter Warmer BABBs comp. Mine placed 4th (was too sessionable! :blink: )
Edit2: Fixed volume


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## Fourstar (7/7/10)

tallie said:


> The cocoa was added to the no-chill cube before the wort was drained on top of it, which ended up presenting a bit of a problem with mixing it in properly (not sure what I'd do about that next time). I got most of it into the fermenter, and after 18 days, about 4-5L of cocoa/yeast sludge had settled on the bottom of the fermenter.



For my Choc hazelnut brown ale served at the melbourne brewers annual dinner this year i used raw caco nibs that i hand roasted, ground up to powder in the coffee grinder and steeped in 75ml of havana club gold for 24 hours to create some extraction. I added all of it to primary at high krausen and it had a great underlying chocolate note. Not excessive but nice and subtle. Next time if i wanted choc only i would go for 100-150g of cacao nibs and work from there.


An optiomn when using cocoa is to add the cocoa to HOT boiled water to make a chocolate slurry ensuring its 'liquified' and add that to the fermenter. The later you add it during fermentation the more of the chocolate volitles you will leave behind. Much like dry hopping.


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## tallie (7/7/10)

Fourstar said:


> An optiomn when using cocoa is to add the cocoa to HOT boiled water to make a chocolate slurry ensuring its 'liquified' and add that to the fermenter. The later you add it during fermentation the more of the chocolate volitles you will leave behind. Much like dry hopping.



Thanks Fourstar, you answered my question about what I would do next time


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## steve78 (7/7/10)

Fourstar: If u add hot liquid to the fermenter while its fermenting, does that not shock the yeast a bit?

Yeah I added mine to the boil about 5 mins before flameout and it mixed in very well, but when I drained the cube it was a bit sludgey on the bottom, but that's no issue really.

I've heard that 200g is a decent amount, the wort tasted like a chocolate bar, delicious mmmm.... The beer should come out good.

I'll see if the gravity drops anymore, I'm aiming for about 1017, so not far to go....


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## Fourstar (7/7/10)

steve78 said:


> Fourstar: If u add hot liquid to the fermenter while its fermenting, does that not shock the yeast a bit?



If you believe in the butterfly effect! :lol:


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## manticle (7/7/10)

what happens if you add butterflies to your brew?

I've added cocoa before. It was a dash and a sprinkle and a bit but it tasted great with no major issues.

The brews I did it with had large amounts of lactose though (and were extracts) so they finished quite high due to other reasons.


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## jivesucka (12/7/10)

chocolate is cool, but in beer? I MEAN WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN


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## browndog (12/7/10)

jivesucka said:


> chocolate is cool, but in beer? I MEAN WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN



A good chocolate beer is awesome, maybe not to everyones taste, but I don't know a beerlover who doesn't like a good chocolate beer.


-BD


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## brendanos (13/7/10)

Without knowing your grain bill/mash temp it is hard to comment on fermentability of your extract, but with the lactose included I would be pretty confident that you are at a terminal gravity.

If I may continue derailing this thread.. I added 20g dutch cocoa to 15L of Ash's Mash Paddle Porter at flameout which worked great. Not a dominant flavour but added a good complexity & was well received by judges. ("lovely chocolate character")

I recently brewed 17L of strong Porter (9.2%) which I aged on 2 oak staves (11 days), 35g Belgian Cocoa nibs (9 days), 100g fresh coffee beans (1 day) and the finished beer has a good balance of all three. Coffee is dominant with chocolate flavour & sweetness well integrated, though underlying malt flavours are still perceived.


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## Lecterfan (30/5/11)

Righto - I can't find "unsweetened" or "low fat" cocoa or anything....all i've been able to procure is "bakers cocoa". Ingredients: cocoa.

Can someone please confirm whether bakers cocoa is suitable or not? 

Cheers.

edit: I am editing this AFTER the reply below, so thanks for the feedback Capie, my recipe is modelled on the one you are referring to. Further Googling has put my mind at ease; baker's cocoa should be perfect...I guess "unsweetened" really means don't use drinking cocoa products. Thanks all.


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## hhouken (30/5/11)

Have brewed JZ Chocolate hazelnut Porter in Brewing Classic Styles (extract) with 200g cocoa powder. After 3 weeks at 20C in fermenter the FG was 1.036 - must have been sampled with sludge in bottom of barrel. Took another sample from a bottle at 1.026 (let it go flat) . Turned out a stunning brew.


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## OzBeer_MD (4/6/11)

Anyone have any experience with Nestle Baking Cocoa? 200g canister from Coles says it contains 11g of fat. Does this wreck head retention?


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## spaced (4/6/11)

OzBeer_MD said:


> Anyone have any experience with Nestle Baking Cocoa? 200g canister from Coles says it contains 11g of fat. Does this wreck head retention?




Have used it in a beer that went bad, but I don't think it was that. I'd still say you'd be better off with a really good brand of dutch cocoa or cocoa nibs (like they sell at craft brewer).


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## hhouken (4/6/11)

OzBeer_MD said:


> Anyone have any experience with Nestle Baking Cocoa? 200g canister from Coles says it contains 11g of fat. Does this wreck head retention?



That's the one I used. No problems with head retention at all.


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## Lecterfan (4/6/11)

I'm not too fussed, but I'll use nibs next time - this has fermented like buggery using 1968 but NO krausen at all so I'm guessing that isn't going to bode well for head formation...meh.


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## wambesi (4/6/11)

Lecterfan said:


> Righto - I can't find "unsweetened" or "low fat" cocoa or anything....all i've been able to procure is "bakers cocoa". Ingredients: cocoa.


I have only used pure unsweetened cocoa myself with very good results, I threw it in the kettle 5mins prior to flameout if I recall correctly.

Head over to coffeesnobs.com.au and check out the beanbay section for some pure cocoas, I am rather fond of the double dutch - make a very nice hot chocolate / mocha base as well when you adjust it with caster sugar to your own liking.


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## Thirsty Boy (4/6/11)

Hate to put a downer on all the chocolate talk but something of relevance to the OP has been missed I think....

Take this bit snipped from the original post - with references to chocolate removed

Its a moderate 1056OG 23.5L batch with Safale S-04 rehydrated yeast (I rarely use this yeast so have not much experience with it). In tasting the wort, the ***** flavour is just amazing, but it appears stuck on 1022.

hmmm - a moderate strength ale brewed with S-04 that seems to be stuck on 1.022. Let me think, have I heard of this happening before?

Bump the temps by a degree per day till you hit the high end of the recommended range, swirl the fermenter a couple of times a day while you are at it and maybe if things get dire, pitch a bit of new yeast from an actively fermenting starter. Me thinks that your issue has little or nothing to do with the chocolate, and a lot to do with the fact that S-04 is notorious for getting stuck at about 1.020-1.022.

Of course wit the lactose in there its going to finish pretty high anyway... so it could just be done too.

TB


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## Lecterfan (4/6/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Hate to put a downer on all the chocolate talk but something of relevance to the OP has been missed I think....




Yes, sorry to wander OT but I just resurrected this old thread to ask a cocoa question lest I start a new thread and be condemned for not having adequate searching skills. Obvously I still have a ways to go in learning the etiquette. 

Cheers.


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## Thirsty Boy (4/6/11)

gah - my bad... missed that it was a dredged up thread. Sorry


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## Dribs (3/8/11)

Right-e-oh, I just got 375g of of Homebrand cocoa. It is 21.6% fat (of which 13.5% is saturated fat). There was no low fat option available.

I'm thinking of a 23L stout/dark toucan with 500g of DDME and 500g of rich brown sugar. *In regards to head retention*, would the 375g be ok with that recipe? Would adding another 500g of malt help give it head? OR, would using say 180g of this seemly high fat cocoa powder be the best option?


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