# Toohey's liquid brewing sugar



## Bribie G (1/2/16)

Anyone used this stuff? I was in Big W today and in the home brew section I spotted this item. Normally I don't even look at kits n bits in supermarkets but I checked out the label, was intrigued and bought a can for $6 for the kilo.





I see that it's not to be used for bottle conditioning, that the ingredients list 100% "maize starch" and it's made at Speight's Brewery, Dunedin, UnZud.

Now it's not likely they would have a massive production line going to make the few tins they'd sell in Australia, and it sure as hell isn't going to be pure starch so I'd make an educated guess along the following lines:

It's more than likely a standard ingredient used in NZ brewing, a variety of "maltose syrup" produced enzymatically to give a range of sugars ranging from maltose up to dextrins to improve body - many of the Non German Euro beers that are now widely available such as Bavaria, Hooten, etc list "maltose" on the labels, so it's worldwide.

Edit: Using maize as the substrate makes a lot of sense for a NZ product, last time I was in the South Island I didn't notice any waving fields of sugar cane.

This would explain why it's not useful for bottle conditioning as it clearly doesn't ferment right out.

So it would be a rather interesting addition to a number of styles such as Aussie and New Zealand lagers, Pale Continental Lagers etc where some lightening of malt flavour whilst maintaining body is useful.

I'll be using this tin in a double batch of Aussie Lager, with BB Pale, POR, the usual suspects.


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## wynnum1 (1/2/16)

Chinese made in NZ


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## Bribie G (1/2/16)

Citation needed


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/2/16)

Used as a base sugar for Rivet Lager B)


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## Bribie G (1/2/16)

I'm sold. As Rivet is made in Vietnam, I expect they get the stuff straight from China and bypass NZ.


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## Vini2ton (1/2/16)

I used to use it in partials and kits and stuff. I thought it was glucose syrup. It worked well for what it was. For 6 bucks, dex is cheaper though. I couldn't really find any info on it and nowadays if I think my BIAB needs a kickalong, I just use dex or white death table sugar. I too wonder about its maltodextrin content.


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## wynnum1 (2/2/16)

There’s a lot of quite concerning and truly sneaky secrets behind the ingredient known as high-_fructose_ corn syrup. ... Given how much high-_fructose_ corn syrup is consumed by children, it could be a significant additional source of _mercury_ never before considered. .


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## TheWiggman (2/2/16)

I used it many moons ago with a kit, back in the days where I was pushing 28°C ferments and watching until the bubbles stopped. I can't recall it being any different. 
I think if there is any decent contribution the Aussie lager would be a good style to test it with. I might have to take the same leap on my next brew.


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## Bribie G (2/2/16)

wynnum1 said:


> There’s a lot of quite concerning and truly sneaky secrets behind the ingredient known as high-_fructose_ corn syrup. ... Given how much high-_fructose_ corn syrup is consumed by children, it could be a significant additional source of _mercury_ never before considered. .


Wtf does Mercury have to do with it?
Plus we are talking about Maltose here not fructose.


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## wynnum1 (2/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> Wtf does Mercury have to do with it?
> Plus we are talking about Maltose here not fructose.


maize is that corn.


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## Mardoo (2/2/16)

Oooo, if that's high fructose corn syrup I want some, but I suspect it's more likely a dextrose syrup. High fructose corn syrup is available in any super market in the States (born, raised and left) and there are some baking and candy recipes that just don't come out quite right without it.


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## Bribie G (2/2/16)

HFCS is fairly rare in Australia. I think Wynnum is getting confused with its widespread use in the USA.
Yes Maize is an alternative name for corn. So?


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## Mr. No-Tip (2/2/16)

Mardoo said:


> Oooo, if that's high fructose corn syrup I want some, but I suspect it's more likely a dextrose syrup. High fructose corn syrup is available in any super market in the States (born, raised and left) and there are some baking and candy recipes that just don't come out quite right without it.


I thought Caro was HFCS? Is it just CS?


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## Bribie G (2/2/16)

HFCS and Corn Syrup are two different products. So called Corn Syrup is often sold as Glucose Syrup which is more accurate.

HFCS is similar to cane sugar, in that it contains glucose and fructose. The difference being that the two molecules are joined in cane sugar but not in HFCS. With fructose being far sweeter than cane sugar that's why American soft drink companies love the stuff. Maize is highly subsidised over there so it's cheaper for our companies just to use cane sugar.


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## Mardoo (2/2/16)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I thought Caro was HFCS? Is it just CS?


Where do you find Caro here? I've never been able to find it. I know you're going to say something like Coles... Really, I have actually looked.


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## Mardoo (2/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> Maize is highly subsidised over there so it's cheaper for our companies just to use cane sugar.


And Australian Coke and biscuits are all the much better for it!


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## Feldon (2/2/16)

Wikipedia:

[SIZE=medium]Corn syrup is a food syrup which is made from the starch of maize (called corn in some countries) and contains varying amounts of maltose and higher oligosaccharides, depending on the grade. Corn syrup is used in foods to soften texture, add volume, prevent crystallization of sugar, and enhance flavor. Corn syrup is distinct from high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS), which is manufactured from corn syrup by converting a large proportion of its glucose into fructose using the enzyme D-xylose isomerase, thus producing a sweeter compound due to higher levels of fructose.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_syrup [/SIZE]


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## Mr. No-Tip (2/2/16)

Mardoo said:


> Where do you find Caro here? I've never been able to find it. I know you're going to say something like Coles... Really, I have actually looked.


Sorry but yes I am! I've noticed it in a few woollies around canberra.


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## wynnum1 (2/2/16)

North American Free Trade Agreement
NAFTA
Cargill Inc. has taken the Mexican government to a federal court, arguing that Mexico has failed to pony up a $95 million award stemming from a free-trade dispute.
The Minnetonka-based agribusiness giant and the Mexican government have had a long-running dispute over trade barriers that Cargill claims have hurt its high-fructose corn syrup business.
The _Trans_-_Pacific_ Partnership 
TPP
Better get used to that US HFCS.


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## NewtownClown (2/2/16)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I thought Caro was HFCS? Is it just CS?


_*Caro*_ is a roasted grain and chicory coffee substitute

_*Karo*_ is corn syrup (0% HFCS)


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## Mr. No-Tip (2/2/16)

NewtownClown said:


> _*Caro*_ is a roasted grain and chicory coffee substitute
> 
> _*Karo*_ is corn syrup (0% HFCS)


Ok. I have seen Karo I woolies then.
Can you get Caro in woollies? Might be interesting in a porter.


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## manticle (2/2/16)

wynnum1 said:


> North American Free Trade Agreement
> NAFTA
> Cargill Inc. has taken the Mexican government to a federal court, arguing that Mexico has failed to pony up a $95 million award stemming from a free-trade dispute.
> The Minnetonka-based agribusiness giant and the Mexican government have had a long-running dispute over trade barriers that Cargill claims have hurt its high-fructose corn syrup business.
> ...



Better get used to your posts making less and less sense as time goes on it seems.

The thread is about Tooheys liquid brewing sugar which is very unlikely to be high fructose corn syrup, contain mercury or be anything to do with the North American free trade agreement to which you refer.

If it is and if those things are relevant, please provide some concrete information rather than really, really vague speculative waffle about not much.

Thanks.


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## Bribie G (2/2/16)

Fair go, Manticle.
I thought I was the main conspiracy theorist on the forum but I bequeath my tinfoil crown to Wynnum.

Now back on topic.


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## yum beer (2/2/16)

If this sugar is made from starch(corn) than it may explain the whole 'we don't use sugar in our beer' argument.
Its sugar, but its not.
May well be worth a try in a lager when the season rolls around, likely to give a better result than dex to lighten the body


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/2/16)

Text I stole from the Internet


*Sugar* is the generalized name for sweet, short-chain, soluble carbohydrates, many of which are used in food. They are carbohydrates, composed of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. There are various types of sugar derived from different sources. Simple sugars are called monosaccharides and include glucose (also known as dextrose), fructose and galactose. The table or granulated sugar most customarily used as food issucrose, a disaccharide. (In the body, sucrose hydrolyses into fructose and glucose.) Other disaccharides include maltose and lactose. Longer chains of sugars are called oligosaccharides. Chemically-different substances may also have a sweet taste, but are not classified as sugars. Some are used as lower-caloriefood substitutes for sugar described as artificial sweeteners.
Sugars are found in the tissues of most plants, but are present in sufficient concentrations for efficient extraction only in sugarcane and sugar beet.[_citation needed_] Sugarcane refers to any of several species of giant grass in the genus _Saccharum_ that have been cultivated in tropical climates in South Asia and Southeast Asiasince ancient times. A great expansion in its production took place in the 18th century with the establishment of sugar plantations in the West Indies and Americas. This was the first time that sugar became available to the common people, who had previously had to rely on honey to sweeten foods. Sugar beet, a cultivated variety of _Beta vulgaris_, is grown as a root crop in cooler climates and became a major source of sugar in the 19th century when methods for extracting the sugar became available. Sugar production and trade have changed the course of human history in many ways, influencing the formation of colonies, the perpetuation of slavery, the transition to indentured labour, the migration of peoples, wars between sugar-trade–controlling nations in the 19th century, and the ethnic composition and political structure of the New World.


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## Bribie G (3/2/16)

Very biased article as it purports to be about sugar but completely ignores HFCS - I have put in a request on the talk page.


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## TheWiggman (3/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> I see that it's not to be used for bottle conditioning, that the ingredients list* 100% "maize starch"* and it's made at Speight's Brewery, Dunedin, UnZud.





Feldon said:


> Corn syrup is a food syrup which is made from the *starch of maize* (called corn in some countries) and contains varying amounts of maltose and higher oligosaccharides, depending on the grade.


Sounds like it's corn syrup then.


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## Bribie G (3/2/16)

Yup, probably not dissimilar to Chinese Maltose syrup that I've been using up to now. That's made from rice, but starch is starch. If so then the Tooheys is a good price.


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/2/16)

Bribie G said:


> Very biased article as it purports to be about sugar but completely ignores HFCS - I have put in a request on the talk page.


It was from Wikipeadia. You can untie your knickers now


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## Bribie G (4/2/16)

Yup, good old Wiki where I'm an editor (I wrote much of the page on Fosters Lager), you possibly can't see the "talk" page if you are using Android on a mobile, I think it only comes up viewed on a PC.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/2/16)

You love your megaswill dont you :lol:


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