# First Porter Recipe



## Joel Mcleod (18/2/14)

[SIZE=medium]What up Fellas,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I’m putting together an Extract/Specially Grain, Porter recipe. I want the recipe to be in between a brown and robust porter. I’m aiming for a good balance between the astringency of the dark grains - that don’t completely override the carmel/choc flavours of the lighter grains - and the bitterness of the hops. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]That’s not asking too much of the extracts is it!!! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]LME Rye 1500g (Briess) EBC 18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Light DME 800g EBC 4 - 18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Dark DME 400g EBC 80 - 120[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Munich 1 Malt (Weyer) 90g EBC 12 - 17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Crystal Malt Pale (TF) 230g EBC 90 – 110 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Crystal Malt Medium (TF) 140g EBC 140 – 160 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Chocolate Pale Malt (TF) 200g EBC 500 – 800 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Black Malt (TF) 140g EBC 1300+[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Northern Brewer Pellets 30g (60mins)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Fuggle Pellets 15g (30mins)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Fuggle Pellets 15g (15mins)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Fuggle Pellets 10g (flame out)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Wyeast 1968 (London ESB) 500ml starter[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Yeast Nutrient [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]*Steep crushed grains at 68 °C in 2.3 L of water for 45 minutes. Rinse grains with 1 L of water at 77 °C. Add water to make 13 L, stir in dried malt extract and bring to a boil. Boil for 60 minutes, adding hops at times indicated in the ingredient list. Add liquid malt extract with 15 minutes left in boil. Cool wort, then transfer to fermenter. Top up with cool water to 19 L, aerate and pitch yeast. No racking to secondary fermenter *[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
I’ll be bottling this batch and leaving them until the weather gets colder. 
I’ve never used this yeast before, is there anything I specifically should watch out for? Craft brewer website mentions that the yeast strain can exhibit noticeable levels of Diacetyl and a rest is necessary. 
Can a Diacetyl rest be achieved when using extracts? Is it really necessary?
Every ones opinion would be well appreciated, especially on the recipe itself. Do you guys think the flavors are balanced at all? Pretty sure I'm flying by the seat of my pants here.


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## warra48 (18/2/14)

Here's the BS2 recipe from my latest Brown Porter, although it's an AG recipe.

You do not want any of the Black Malt in there, because you will move it into Stout territory, and you'll have way too much roast flavour. That really does not belong in a Porter. The key is the Brown Malt and the Chocolate Malt. I used Chocolate Wheat because it was all I had in stock, although it's a little darker than regular Chocolate Malt.

WY1968 will be fine, but be aware this yeast will slowly continue to ferment in the bottle, even if you think you have achieved complete attenuation. Make sure you prime at the lower end of the scale, and don't leave it too long to drink your bottles, as you will end up with excessive carbonation. It's the reason I have given up on the yeast, even though I like the character it gives the beer.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/2/14)

Cararoma is great in porter


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## warra48 (18/2/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Cararoma is great in porter


I've also used it to good effect in Alts and American Ambers. Great malt.


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## manticle (18/2/14)

Firstly I don't mind a shade of black in a porter but it really needs to be a shade and balanced with other roasts like choc or roast barley. Roast Barley is another that can push it into stout territory and needs a very gentle, judicious hand. If used, you are not aiming for it to be pronounced.

Secondly - 90 grams of munich will scarcely make its presence felt. If you are going to the effort of mashing (which you need to do with munich and is what makes it a partial) why not mash a good amount more? If you haven't already got the grains, switch the munich for maris otter.

Diacetyl production has nothing to do with the base as far as I know - it is produced by the yeast and thus is a potential issue with or without extract. A small amount can add character to british ales and the roast complexity should help reduce the threshold. More importantly with 1968 is its tendency to slow/stall as it moves towards attenuation. Pitch enough, oxygenate the wort well and don't let the temperature drop stupidly and you should avoid this but I agree with warra - you can get more carb than you are chasing over time with some UK yeasts, including 1968.

Personally I would cut out the very late fuggle additions (if late is necessary, use challenger or styrians but porters do not need late hops), cut the black by at least half or more, reduce the crystal a tad and up the base malt and replace munich with maris.

I would also use only pale DME and if you do mash more base malt - chuck a bit of victory or biscuit malt in as well.

1099 is another yeast that works very well in dark beers. 1469 seems to work in everything UK but ferment around 17-18.


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## Joel Mcleod (18/2/14)

WY1968 will be fine, but be aware this yeast will slowly continue to ferment in the bottle, even if you think you have achieved complete attenuation. Make sure you prime at the lower end of the scale, and don't leave it too long to drink your bottles, as you will end up with excessive carbonation. It's the reason I have given up on the yeast, even though I like the character it gives the beer.





Thanks for the posts guys,
If the bottles end up with excessive carbonation, do you use any priming sugar? I have a keg system so its made me lazy. I haven't bottled any beer for about 2 years!! so I think I'll go and read up on the best methods or something.

Cheers,


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## lukiferj (18/2/14)

As others have mentioned go easy on the black/roasted malts. However, I always add some to my porters as a personal preference. May not be strictly to style but certainly adds something without getting into stout territory.


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## manticle (18/2/14)

Just keg it and keep it at 10 degrees.


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## Joel Mcleod (18/2/14)

manticle said:


> Firstly I don't mind a shade of black in a porter but it really needs to be a shade and balanced with other roasts like choc or roast barley. Roast Barley is another that can push it into stout territory and needs a very gentle, judicious hand. If used, you are not aiming for it to be pronounced.
> 
> Secondly - 90 grams of munich will scarcely make its presence felt. If you are going to the effort of mashing (which you need to do with munich and is what makes it a partial) why not mash a good amount more? If you haven't already got the grains, switch the munich for maris otter.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post, changed up the bill like you suggested.

Porter 180214
Brown Porter
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.050
Total Hops (g): 30.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.052 (°P): 12.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.11 %
Colour (SRM): 18.6 (EBC): 36.6
Bitterness (IBU): 24.5 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60
Grain Bill
----------------
1.500 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Light (37.04%)
1.200 kg Dry Malt Extract - Light (29.63%)
0.800 kg Maris Otter Malt (19.75%)
0.200 kg Crystal 40 (4.94%)
0.140 kg Chocolate, Pale (3.46%)
0.140 kg Crystal 80 (3.46%)
0.070 kg Black Malt (1.73%)

Hop Bill
----------------
15.0 g Northern Brewer Pellet (9.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
15.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with
Recipe Generated with BrewMate


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## Joel Mcleod (18/2/14)

manticle said:


> Just keg it and keep it at 10 degrees.


Hahah!! Due to my huge lack of enthusiasm towards cleaning bottles, this is probably what I'll do.


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## lukiferj (18/2/14)

Looks pretty tasty.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/2/14)

Try some carafa II or carafa III instead of RB.


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## Joel Mcleod (20/2/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Try some carafa II or carafa III instead of RB.


Hey Stu,

What is RB?
I'll try the carafe 2 next batch. Would you change out some of the crystal for the carafa?


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## warra48 (20/2/14)

RB = Roast Barley


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## Liam_snorkel (20/2/14)

+1 for brown malt in a porter :drool:


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/2/14)

Replace your RB with carafa II or III.

A touch of black patent malt can be nice also.


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## Joel Mcleod (1/3/14)

Right,
All set for brewing this porter tomorrow. I messed up and ordered the wrong recipe when purchasing online. The grains were pre-mixed, so I've got little choice but to brew the following recipe:

010314 - Brown Porter

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 21.0
Total Grain (kg): 3.640
Total Hops (g): 40.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.052 (°P): 12.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.11 %
Colour (SRM): 26.7 (EBC): 52.6
Bitterness (IBU): 28.4 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60
Grain Bill
----------------
1.500 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Light (41.21%)
1.200 kg Dry Malt Extract - Light (32.97%)
0.230 kg Crystal 40 (6.32%)
0.200 kg Chocolate, Pale (5.49%)
0.140 kg Black Malt (3.85%)
0.140 kg Crystal 80 (3.85%)
0.140 kg Special Roast (3.85%)
0.090 kg Munich I (2.47%)
Hop Bill
----------------
15.0 g Northern Brewer Pellet (9.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
15.0 g Fuggles Plug (5.7% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
Misc Bill
----------------
Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Wyeast 1968 - London ESB Ale
Recipe Generated with BrewMate


This'll be the 1st brew in my fridgemate temp. controlled fridge, so I'm keen to see if there are any changes to the brews fermentation.

The Wyeast 1968 has been fed 2/3 cup of light DME in 2 cups of water with teaspoon of yeast nutrient, and oxygenated. Let ya know how I go tomorrow.

Cheers,


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## warra48 (2/3/14)

Good luck with your brew. Should turn out tasty if you are into dark beers.

To me, it looks more like a Stout recipe, rather than a Brown Porter, but as you say, it's pre-mixed, so you'll have to run with it. 

WY1968 will certainly help to bring the malt to the foreground.


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## Joel Mcleod (2/3/14)

Brew went well. Added another 500mm of boiled DME to the yeast starter, which brought the starter to 1L.

Steeped the grains in 4L of water @ 68 degrees and rinsed the grains in 1L @ 77 degrees. Added another 3.5L of water to roughly get 7L of wort and then added other ingredients.

Couldn't help my self and swapped the 10min 15g of Fuggle and instead chucked it in while it was cooling in the ice bath.

OG before I added yeast starter was 1.049 - 1.050.
So now its sitting pretty at 20 degrees in the fridge. The wort tasted freaking nice!! Its good to see you guys are right on the money for all the advise. It did have a stouty taste to it. 

There's always next time to get closer to the real thing.

cheers,


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## Joel Mcleod (18/3/14)

Well, the FG came out at 1.013. and then I left it at 21 degrees for another 5 days. Kegged it at 40KPA for a week. Tried it tonight and it's a pretty decent brew.
Nice bitting chocolate notes with a deep roasted malt flavour that last through the main body of the beer. The hop profile takes the chocolate bite up a notch at the backend and leaves the overall mouth-feel too dry.
I'll be changing the recipe up to the following:

Porter 180314
Robust Porter
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 21.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.180
Total Hops (g): 30.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.052 (°P): 12.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.11 %
Colour (SRM): 19.8 (EBC): 39.0
Bitterness (IBU): 22.8 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60
Grain Bill
----------------
1.450 kg Maris Otter Malt (34.69%)
1.300 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Light (31.1%)
0.500 kg Dry Malt Extract - Light (11.96%)
0.360 kg Munich I (8.61%)
0.230 kg Caramunich I (5.5%)
0.200 kg Chocolate (4.78%)
0.140 kg Caramunich II (3.35%)
Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Northern Brewer Pellet (9.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
20.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/L)
Misc Bill
----------------
Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Wyeast 1968 - London ESB Ale
Recipe Generated with BrewMate


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/3/14)

Why use MO with all that LME.........


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## Joel Mcleod (19/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Why use MO with all that LME.........


Is there a reason not too? 
I'm going off an all grain recipe which calls for 2 row English pale ale malt, I can partial mash up to 1.8Kg of base malt in my cooler. I figured...Might as well. It can only add more freshness of flavor to the beer. LME and DME can only give you so much.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/3/14)

Why not use all MO


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## Joel Mcleod (19/3/14)

Do you mean: use all MO instead of both MO and Munich 1?


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/3/14)

All MO instead of MO & LME. Keep the munich.


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

I'd like to keep my current brewing method at the moment. I'm aiming to get more consistency with the brews. But, I could change the wort from 21L to 9 or 10L batch. If I do that, what changes to the hop schedule would need to be made?


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## manticle (20/3/14)

Stu - this is a partial mash. Personally I'd use as much MO as you can and drop the munich but now you've made the beer, you can hopefully discern for ypurself what does what and what, if anything you would change next time.

After all - you're making it for you, not me.


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## technobabble66 (20/3/14)

Joe Mc said:


> The hop profile takes the chocolate bite up a notch at the backend and leaves the overall mouth-feel too dry.


Is there a fair chance that this exaggerated bite is from harsher astringent notes of the dark grains/crystal rather than from the hops?

Eg: could cold steeping eliminate this? (Instead of altering the hops schedule).


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

Joe Mc.....how many beers have you made so far....have they mostly been extract + spec grains


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

technobabble66 said:


> Is there a fair chance that this exaggerated bite is from harsher astringent notes of the dark grains/crystal rather than from the hops?
> 
> Eg: could cold steeping eliminate this? (Instead of altering the hops schedule).


I rekon your right, I've decided to cut the black malt all together. What temp would you cold steep special grains at?


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## manticle (20/3/14)

Cold water from the tap.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

Would that be Tasmanian cold water temps or Darwin cold water temps...


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

Joe Mc said:


> I rekon your right, I've decided to cut the black malt all together.


Black malt in a robust porter is rather nice....and...if your getting astringency from black malt....then its not black malt...


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Joe Mc.....how many beers have you made so far....have they mostly been extract + spec grains


I've brewed 12, 21L batches of my partial mash brews using up to 1.8kg of base malt in my 7.6L cooler, and a 19L Big W pot.The porter was the first brew kept at a constant temp using a temp mate.I've roughly brewed 15 extract with grains and hops, and many kits. You got me thinking about doing a 9-10L AG batch and doing a Partial brew to compare flavours, colour, aroma, etc. 

If your hinting that I take the red pill and you show me how deep the AG rabbit hole goes...?? 

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify AG Brewers, and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you AG Brewers do not.
You move to a thread topic and you multiply and multiply until every thread topic is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another thread topic. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? Yeast. AG Brewers are a Yeast strain


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Black malt in a robust porter is rather nice....and...if your getting astringency from black malt....then its not black malt...


There is an astringency there at the back end. What usually gives off this taste?


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## manticle (20/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Would that be Tasmanian cold water temps or Darwin cold water temps...


Considering I stick the lot in the fridge - either or.

What i'm suggesting is that the temp of a cold steep is irrelevant as long as it isn't hot.

Roast malts can give astringency.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

manticle said:


> Considering I stick the lot in the fridge - either or.
> 
> What i'm suggesting is that the temp of a cold steep is irrelevant as long as it isn't hot.
> 
> Roast malts can give astringency.


Roast malt yes....Black malt not so much


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## manticle (20/3/14)

You know they roast malt until it's black don't you?


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

Joe Mc said:


> If your hinting that I take the red pill and you show me how deep the AG rabbit hole goes...??
> 
> I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify AG Brewers, and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you AG Brewers do not.
> You move to a thread topic and you multiply and multiply until every thread topic is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another thread topic. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? Yeast. AG Brewers are a Yeast strain


Not assuming you take any form of coloured pill.

But if you take the attitude of AG brewers being superior to everyone else and not wanting to help those who are not AG brewers, then you are sadly mistaken. 

Brewers ask questions because they have been there and have done what you are currently doing. They ask the queastions because they want to know where you are at and what you are doing so they can help you to make a better beer and avoid mistakes.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

manticle said:


> You know they roast malt until it's black don't you?


I would hope so


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

I'm going to steep the specialty grains separately from the mash, as this will give room for more base grains.

In the past, I've steeped my specialty grains in about 3L at around 65 degrees and let it sit for 30mins, then add to the brew pot.

Cutting the black malt from the recipe will hopefully give a good comparison of what the flavour profile of black malt can do for a porter.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

Black malt can be overpowering. Can give a nice charcoal/ ash flavour. Personally I preffer black malt in a Stout.

Any reason why you are using a small mash vessel....


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Not assuming you take any form of coloured pill.
> 
> But if you take the attitude of AG brewers being superior to everyone else and not wanting to help those who are not AG brewers, then you are sadly mistaken.
> 
> Brewers ask questions because they have been there and have done what you are currently doing. They ask the queastions because they want to know where you are at and what you are doing so they can help you to make a better beer and avoid mistakes.


Only having a dig. I guess there's no such thing as stupid questions...Just stupid answers. So I apologise.
I for 1 have appreciated all the help the people on this site have given out.


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## Joel Mcleod (20/3/14)

Basically, I don't have much else laying around to use. I do like using the small cooler though. I can control the temp of the mash to within 2 degrees of what my thermometer reads over 60mins. there's no headspace what so ever, and I can easily batch sparge. 
The 2 pot thread looks intriguing, but I would prefer to upgrade to a larger esky, flame source and brew pot when I get the time and money.

Cheers,


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## manticle (20/3/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I would hope so


So how is black malt not a form of roast? You confuse me.

your logic so far has gone from suggesting using black patent in a porter to suggesting black can't give astringency to suggesting roast malt and black malt are separate to suggesting black malt is better in a stout than porter.

I can't follow your circles. I agree that a tiny amount of black in a porter can work well but you lost me with the rest.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/3/14)

Do you have a BigW/Kmart nearby. There 20ltr stock pots are the go for what you are doing.

In fact I soldered 2 of them together for my ghetto kettle....was ugly as sin...but did 4-5 yrs worth of brewing....but thats another story..


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