# RecipeDB - Lord Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Lord Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale  Ale - American Pale Ale  All Grain               11 Votes        Brewer's Notes Zeus = CitraGalena = GalaxyBairds Golden Promise = Bairds Perle.Someone should seriously look at the database.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      5 kg Bairds Golden Promise Pale Ale Malt    0.3 kg Weyermann Caramunich I    0.2 kg TF Pale Rye Malt       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      20 g Cascade (Pellet, 5.5AA%, 10mins)    13.4 g Galena (Pellet, 13.0AA%, 10mins)    10 g Nelson Sauvin (Pellet, 12.7AA%, 10mins)    10 g Zeus (Pellet, 14.0AA%, 10mins)    10 g Zeus (Pellet, 14.0AA%, 30mins)       Yeast     12 g DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale         23L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.056 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.014 (calc)   Bitterness 32.8 IBU   Efficiency 75%   Alcohol 5.46%   Colour 15 EBC   Batch Size 23L     Fermentation   Primary 7 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 2 days


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I




----------



## Joshisgood

looks good, how does this one taste?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Tastes fantastic. 

Ironically I don't think it's as hoppy or passionfruity as I would have expected. Having said that, it's a very well balanced beer, just slightly over to the IPA side of APA. I wouldn't call it an AIPA, but it's certainly got the bitterness there, though it doesn't linger as long as it would an IPA.

I actually think Nelson and Galaxy take a backseat to the Cascade and Citra. The cascade mellows the real fruitiness of the other hops and stops it from becoming slightly bitter fruit punch.

The malt is the real winner - I think I'd use the malt combo regardless of the hops. A touch of spiciness from the rye, the Bairds Perle always provides a good malt backbone (and is cheap as chips), and caramunich I provides the colour and the touch of caramel, though I really think it it muted - it certainly isn't the dominant.

It's a different beer from Lord Nelson Citra Pale Ale, no better, no worse, just different. If you asked me to pick between the two I couldn't. I think this is less fruity, more bitter and better balanced, but there's something about the original this was based on, that I really love. A bit like "why do I like S & W PA?" - because I do, even if it is girly.

SWMBO loves this one too.

Goomba


----------



## jasonharley

My Lord



What are your thoughts about increasing the Caramunich bill to 0.5kg and just going with Citra and Cascade hops?



5 eyes


----------



## hoppinmad

Looks like a gr8 recipe!

To admin..... Surely it can't be that hard to add a couple of new hops to the data base. Hops such as galaxy and citra should have been added over a year ago. I mean really... who here has even heard of Zeus hops?


----------



## Brewman_

Good Lord it sounds good. Looks the goods too.
May I ask a question?

I notice your recipe has a short time (minutes) on the hop addition, is that the same for the boil before hop addition, and why a short boil time on the hops, as opposed to say a classic 60 min + boil with the bitter addition?

Fear_n_loath


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

My apologies to those who've posted questions and I've not realised (not been on AHB/topic disappeared too quick). If you have any qu that you want to place in this topic, please feel free to PM me to alert me and I'll share with all to ensure that the knowledge is out there.

This proportion of ingredients is my basic house APA, and it allows me to tweak.

@4 eyes - absolutely okay to do it this way. The recipe alteration I'm posting below omits Nelson Sauvin and has a change in spec malts (but very yummy)

@fear_n_loath - the main reason for the shorter boil times is that I do want some fruitiness out of my hops. A 60 minute boil will give the required bitterness, but this being an APA, means I really want a hoppy, fruit drive aroma and palate, whilst not overdoing the bitterness. So I go with 30 minutes to add mostly bitterness and a little flavour and a big whack at 10 for the flavour I want.

*APA Sans Nelson*

Batch size: 23L

Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (P): 13.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 5.21 %
Colour (SRM): 10.2 (EBC): 20.1
Bitterness (IBU): 30.4 (Average)

5kg (90.91%) Perle Malt Bairds
.3kg (5.45%) Wheat, Red Briess
.2kg (3.64%) Crystal, Heritage

10g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (14.3% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
25g (1.1 g/L) Cascade (5.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
20g (0.9 g/L) Citra (14.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
10g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (14.3% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Yeast: US-05

Dry hopped in Keg:

20g Citra
30g Cascade
Single step Infusion at 71C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

Hey Goomba,

If you want to keep track of your thread go to options ( top right in the first post) and selct track this thread, it will send you email updates and you wont miss a thing.

Looks like a great beer too mate, I'm becoming a huge fan of Citra and Galaxy right now :icon_drool2:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Thanks bdb.

Citra, Galaxy and a judicious late addition of cascade is seriously good.

It's sad to say, this beer is better without NS. I much prefer NS either with Citra by themselves or as the main hop with something else just supporting it.

Otherwise it ends up trying to compete and it's not a hop that likes to share the limelight.

I'm thinking of doing a barleywine with Nelson at the top, though.

And 50g of hops in the keg and force carbonated means the first 3 days is :icon_drunk: :icon_drool2: 

Goomba


----------



## jacknohe

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> It's sad to say, this beer is better without NS. I much prefer NS either with Citra by themselves or as the main hop with something else just supporting it.
> 
> Otherwise it ends up trying to compete and it's not a hop that likes to share the limelight.




Yes, I know what you mean. Hadn't put my finger on it until I read your post above. NS doesn't like to share. I made a beer with even additions of NS and Motueka. Sounds delish, but the blend to my tastes wasn't good at all...


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

jacknohe said:


> Yes, I know what you mean. Hadn't put my finger on it until I read your post above. NS doesn't like to share. I made a beer with even additions of NS and Motueka. Sounds delish, but the blend to my tastes wasn't good at all...



Old batch tasted great, but I feel like this one shines better and feels better defined.

I think this recipe with Rye and Wheat, and a tiny bit of special B will be a really good alteration.

Goomba


----------



## Truman42

Noob question alert - what's the advantage of racking this into a secondary after 7 days? Why do we do this and could we just keep it in the same fermenter for the full 14 days instead?

After having just done my first AG the stone and wood clone which turned out bloody marvelous I keen to do another pale using galaxy hops so will be giving this one a try for sure.


----------



## beerbog

Truman said:


> Noob question alert - what's the advantage of racking this into a secondary after 7 days? Why do we do this and could we just keep it in the same fermenter for the full 14 days instead?
> 
> After having just done my first AG the stone and wood clone which turned out bloody marvelous I keen to do another pale using galaxy hops so will be giving this one a try for sure.




Not much really. :beerbang:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Mainly clarity.

This one was never racked to secondary - I just cold conditioned it. It didn't really increase clarity all that much, but then again, it may be the wheat responsible for that.

Goomba


----------



## ploto

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> *APA Sans Nelson*
> 
> Batch size: 23L
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (P): 13.1
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
> Alcohol (ABV): 5.21 %
> Colour (SRM): 10.2 (EBC): 20.1
> Bitterness (IBU): 30.4 (Average)
> 
> 5kg (90.91%) Perle Malt Bairds
> .3kg (5.45%) Wheat, Red Briess
> .2kg (3.64%) Crystal, Heritage
> 
> 10g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (14.3% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
> 25g (1.1 g/L) Cascade (5.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 20g (0.9 g/L) Citra (14.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 10g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (14.3% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 
> Yeast: US-05
> 
> Dry hopped in Keg:
> 
> 20g Citra
> 30g Cascade
> Single step Infusion at 71C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
> 
> Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05



I thought this was a nice looking recipe so I put down an extract version of it tonight.

23l
1 can light malt + 1 can wheat malt
500g dry light malt for the boil
250g heritage crystal

15g galaxy @ 30
30g galaxy @ 10
30g cascade @ 10
15g citra @ 10
30g cascade dry
20g citra dry

US-05

I increased the hops to reach the target ibu with the smaller boil as per ian's spreadsheet. Also added a handful of dex just to thin the extract out a wee bit. 




jacknohe said:


> Yes, I know what you mean. Hadn't put my finger on it until I read your post above. NS doesn't like to share. I made a beer with even additions of NS and Motueka. Sounds delish, but the blend to my tastes wasn't good at all...



Funny you say that, my last brew was nelson 15g @ 30 & 15 + motueka 30g @ 15 & 5 and indeed it was not good. The previous brew using hallertau aroma in place of motueka was better, but still only good for a few weeks before the interesting flavours were lost. 

I'd like to brew something that does nelson justice so I might try goomba's LNC next time now that I have the citra. However I'm still keen to do an APA style that is exclusively NZ hops and includes nelson.


----------



## Truman42

Hey Goomba did you chill or no chill this one?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Truman said:


> Hey Goomba did you chill or no chill this one?



Chilled it, mate.

Having said that, an anomale in my system is that whilst I'm chilling one pot in the sink, the other is still hot (virtually boiling) for the 15 minutes or so it takes to cool my pot in the sink. So you could call my system semi-chill.

I gathered as much, as my perceived bitterness is always a touch above what the calcs would indicate.

@ploto - I would have probably gone one can light malt, one can amber, and then added the wheat grain with the crystal (or maybe replace crystal with a little special B).

You'd have got the real amber hue and aroma that comes with it, which really balances the hops nicely.

As for the Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale - I'd rate sans-nelson better. For a good nelson brew, I'd probably use the NC Cascade Galaxy recipe, but replace all Galaxy with Nelson and Cascade with Citra.

Alternatively, look for the HECS free celebration ale (of mine) on the DB - my missus loves this one, and it is definitely a recipe that highlights Nelson at the front and centre of the hope regime.

Goomba


----------



## Kieren

HoppinMad said:


> Looks like a gr8 recipe!
> 
> To admin..... Surely it can't be that hard to add a couple of new hops to the data base. Hops such as galaxy and citra should have been added over a year ago. I mean really... who here has even heard of Zeus hops?



Zeus = Columbus (or Tomahawk or CTZ) - same hop.

It is a stupid recipe database indeed, I really don't like using it and would prefer to just post a recipe in a thread.


----------



## ploto

Cheers Goomba & thanks for the suggestons. I've got a few cans of the light & wheat extract to use up and I don't want to buy any more goo so I went with what I had. I'm looking forward to it and will report back when it's in the glass.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Post a picture on this topic - if anyone else reads through it, they'll get an idea of how this works as an extract beer, as well as being a good tasting topic.

Goomba


----------



## Truman42

Is Pale Malt Bairds the same as Bairds Malted Oats sold at G&G and Ale-Perle Malt sold at CB?

Are they all the same thing?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Ale - Perle.

There's also a Thomas Fawcett Floor Malted version which isn't quite as clean, and I find seems to tend towards a slightly oily texture.

Goomba


----------



## dkaos

Hey Goomba,
How come the mash temp was so high? Wouldn't it make a very thin beer at this temp?

Cheers,

Clint


----------



## bignath

Clints Gadgets said:


> Hey Goomba,
> How come the mash temp was so high? Wouldn't it make a very thin beer at this temp?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Clint



other way round.. higher the mash temp, higher the finishing gravity (all other things being equal) therefore resulting in a fuller beer.

lower the mash temp, lower the finishing gravity giving a drier, thinner beer.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Big Nath said:


> other way round.. higher the mash temp, higher the finishing gravity (all other things being equal) therefore resulting in a fuller beer.
> 
> lower the mash temp, lower the finishing gravity giving a drier, thinner beer.



+1

Mashing higher means less fermentable sugar, mashing lower means lots of fermentable sugar (therefore thinner, well attenuated beer).

The higher mash temp is a by-product of my first APA being 7% and thoroughly quaffable, but utterly un-sessionable.

A bit like Little Creatures SB DIPA  

So I've been playing around for the last year or so with the mash temp to reduce abv% to a sessionable level, without sacrificing flavour or balance. It's a constant tweaking.

This beer ended up around 4.8%, and my eventual goal is to produce a 4-4.5% beer that has people saying "this doesn't taste mid-strength".

Same with my 3.5%, which I managed to achieve with it already.

Goomba


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Drinking this now and it is a beauty. Very nice and smooth, hoppy but not overpowering. I went with GP, caramunich 1 and a dash of wheat. Really happy with it and will do again. Cascade is the unsung hero of hops - it plays so well with the other kids .....
Cheers Chris = It got 5 stars from me.
BBB


----------



## ploto

Poured the first glass of my extract version today after 7 days in the bottle. still a wee bit fresh but probably the most drinkable week-old beer I've made. There was a reasonable head on it when poured but had dropped by the time I found the camera.





The can of wheat extract gives it a fair bit of tartness, which I find quite refreshing, and seems to balance with the bitterness, which is strong but not harsh - the missus didn't raise any objections and she is not a fan of strong beers. The citra seems to be the dominant hop flavour and the taste is quite fruity, without being lolly fruity if you know what I mean.

If I did this again I would probably drop the can of wheat extract in favour of 500g of dry wheat extract as I suspect it may be too tart for some. Regardless I'm enjoyig it and looking forward to gettig stuck into it over the next few weeks. Thanks for all your help Goomba :icon_cheers:


----------



## Truman42

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> My apologies to those who've posted questions and I've not realised (not been on AHB/topic disappeared too quick). If you have any qu that you want to place in this topic, please feel free to PM me to alert me and I'll share with all to ensure that the knowledge is out there.
> 
> This proportion of ingredients is my basic house APA, and it allows me to tweak.
> 
> @4 eyes - absolutely okay to do it this way. The recipe alteration I'm posting below omits Nelson Sauvin and has a change in spec malts (but very yummy)
> 
> @fear_n_loath - the main reason for the shorter boil times is that I do want some fruitiness out of my hops. A 60 minute boil will give the required bitterness, but this being an APA, means I really want a hoppy, fruit drive aroma and palate, whilst not overdoing the bitterness. So I go with 30 minutes to add mostly bitterness and a little flavour and a big whack at 10 for the flavour I want.
> 
> *APA Sans Nelson*
> 
> Batch size: 23L
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (P): 13.1
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
> Alcohol (ABV): 5.21 %
> Colour (SRM): 10.2 (EBC): 20.1
> Bitterness (IBU): 30.4 (Average)
> 
> 5kg (90.91%) Perle Malt Bairds
> .3kg (5.45%) Wheat, Red Briess
> .2kg (3.64%) Crystal, Heritage
> 
> 10g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (14.3% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
> 25g (1.1 g/L) Cascade (5.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 20g (0.9 g/L) Citra (14.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 10g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (14.3% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 
> Yeast: US-05
> 
> Dry hopped in Keg:
> 
> 20g Citra
> 30g Cascade
> Single step Infusion at 71C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
> 
> Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05



I just opened a bottle of this version after only 3 days in the bottle and it was bloody fantastic. The missus and I both enjoyed it. Cant wait for a couple of weeks to see how much better it becomes. 

Ive got 29 stubbies of this which are all going into my stockpile for our family xmas party on boxing day, so Im pleased its something thats very drinkable that our family members will love.


----------



## mckenry

Truman said:


> Ive got 29 stubbies of this which are all going into my stockpile for our family xmas party on boxing day, so Im pleased its something thats very drinkable that our family members will love.



Nothing better than family appreciating your beer. Especially at Christmas. You'll have a smile all day :icon_chickcheers: (and hopefully get lucky B) if the mrs likes it too )


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Thanks for all the positive feedback (and PMs of thanks).

The low abv% version of this is starting to dry well enough - not the same, not as hoppy. 

The big thing with the full abv% version of this is that it's balanced, hoppy, but not fruitsalad nasty - it doesn't taste like beer lolly water, which is always a risk if you don't balance you beer right.

Crystal does work well - but don't overdo it!

Goomba


----------



## Truman42

mckenry said:


> Nothing better than family appreciating your beer. Especially at Christmas. You'll have a smile all day :icon_chickcheers: (and hopefully get lucky B) if the mrs likes it too )



I usually get lucky even without the aid of great home brew...  

I've also got a Black IPA to bottle and an American Steam beer to brew that I'm serving on Xmas day so plenty of variety for everyones tastes.

Ive done some labels up "Shallas Pale Ale" (The wifes name) and "Trumans black IPA", which the missus is really excited about serving our home brew with nice labels. :icon_cheers:


----------



## mckenry

Truman said:


> I usually get lucky even without the aid of great home brew...
> 
> I've also got a Black IPA to bottle and an American Steam beer to brew that I'm serving on Xmas day so plenty of variety for everyones tastes.
> 
> Ive done some labels up "Shallas Pale Ale" (The wifes name) and "Trumans black IPA", which the missus is really excited about serving our home brew with nice labels. :icon_cheers:



Show us your labels or it didnt happen !

Shalla or Shallas ? What kind of name is that? Absolutely no offence intended. Hard to get that across on the net. Genuinely interested.


----------



## Truman42

mckenry said:


> Show us your labels or it didnt happen !
> 
> Shalla or Shallas ? What kind of name is that? Absolutely no offence intended. Hard to get that across on the net. Genuinely interested.



There on my computer at home so will post them when I get home tonight.

Its "Shalla" and the beer is actually "Shalla Pale Ale" The S was a typo.

Her folks are from Mauritius. I love her name, one of the first things that attracted me to her because its different.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Dude that is a noble comment.

What did she like about the beer so much to put her name on it?


----------



## Truman42

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Dude that is a noble comment.
> 
> What did she like about the beer so much to put her name on it?



Firstly because we brewed it..  

Secondly because she likes the idea of seeing her name on the labels for the rellies to drink. (She has a big family so 30 people will be there on the day) (Woman can be so vain even when its not fashion related..  )

But most importantly she likes the passion fruit and citrus flavours from the Galaxy and Citra hops. 

Its funny though she used to only like the Pale Ales, but since Ive started HB and we have visited a lot of micro breweries, she's now enjoying many of the darker beers like the black IPA, Porters, scotch ales all that sort of thing.

Just goes to show that what many of these micro breweries do with these classic styles is making them more popular with the usual standard ale drinkers.

Its a good feeling when you manage to convert someone across to something you've always enjoyed, like when you finally get your kids to try a curry you've made and they actually like it.


----------



## Truman42

mckenry said:


> Show us your labels or it didnt happen !
> 
> Shalla or Shallas ? What kind of name is that? Absolutely no offence intended. Hard to get that across on the net. Genuinely interested.



Here you go. I did them in labely.com. Simple design, but your limited to only 5 text fields and you cant make the text wrap etc. I have photoshop so hope to revamp them on there one day.

View attachment 50611


View attachment 50612


View attachment 50613


----------



## mckenry

Truman said:


> Here you go. I did them in labely.com. Simple design, but your limited to only 5 text fields and you cant make the text wrap etc. I have photoshop so hope to revamp them on there one day.
> 
> View attachment 50611
> 
> 
> View attachment 50612
> 
> 
> View attachment 50613



Nice. Understated. I like them.


----------



## Truman42

Heres a pic of my BIAB efforts of this beer. I cold conditioned for 10 days and used gelatine 2 days before bottling.

These two little beauties were polished off by the wife and I shortly after this photo was taken and we thoroughly enjoyed them.

Cheers

View attachment 50693


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Look fantastic.

Yours are clearer than mine ever were - I'm usually too lazy to use gelatin, though I have for the current low abv%, sans Nelson version (though, I would think that the current version is more akin to an English Pale Ale with an American twist, rather than anything akin to the original).

Goomba


----------



## Shifter

Goomba,

The APA Sans Nelson; is it a 30 miniute boil or 60 mins? Hop additions say 30mins but further down it quotes 60 mins??

Would assume a 30 min boil all up?

cheers,


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

30 mins. I thought that with the low alcohol version, 60 would be good. But for the standard and sans- nelson version it's a 30 minutes, then 10 min for flavour addition.


----------



## Shifter

Thanks for the promt reply.


----------



## Phoney

I brewed a variation of this tonight...

Same grain bill as in the recipe DB, but wanting to use up my left over hops I went with this hop combo...

5g Sticklebract (12% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) - to bring the IBU up to 32
10g Galaxy @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
25g Cascade @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
20g B Saaz @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
10g Galaxy @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

15g B Saaz @ dry hop on day 4
25g Cascade @ dry hop on day 4


Looking forward to praising the Lord Goomba! :beer:


----------



## String

Big thumbs up from me LRG!
I brewed the no Nelson version and loved it. I dry hopped 50g into the keg with a teaball and was really impressed with the hop flavour and aroma.
Much disappointment from the group last night when the Keg blew dry.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

String said:


> Big thumbs up from me LRG!
> I brewed the no Nelson version and loved it. I dry hopped 50g into the keg with a teaball and was really impressed with the hop flavour and aroma.
> Much disappointment from the group last night when the Keg blew dry.




Great to hear - really happy to hear (except the keg blowing, though a nice complement to hear of disappointment).

The best thing about this recipe is that a good American modern hop or nz hop can be interchanged, so long as numbers/ratios are retained, it should work. Same with the base grain vs spec bill, though rye is really the best in this.

@phoneyhuh, how did it go?

Please vote and update the thread - anyone who brews it. Share the knowledge.

Keep your eyes peeled over the next week.

I force carbed tonight an AIPA - not really related to this one, but certainly another excellent beer, with a different hop profile, but nommy american nonetheless. Dry hopped with 110g of hops (thought it has no effect on the flavour, but left my preggers wife sniffing the glass for about 15 minutes (though of course she didn't drink it)).

Will post the recipe once I remember which computer it's on (and I think it'll be the work one), plus notes.

Goomba


----------



## Cocko

I am really glad this thread came up, I am looking forward to brewing this ASAP!

Cheers


----------



## manticle

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Dry hopped with 110g of hops (thought it has no effect on the flavour,



Of course dry hopping has an effect on flavour.

Dry hop a glass of water for 3 days, then drink it.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

manticle said:


> Of course dry hopping has an effect on flavour.
> 
> Dry hop a glass of water for 3 days, then drink it.



Okey, dokey - I know you're right about that - I suppose I should have qualified it by saying it doesn't have the same effect as a massive 10 minute addition.

It hasn't had a massive impact on flavour as the 10m addition - and the intensity of the aroma doesn't match the intensity of the flavour.

That's really what I was alluding to.

Edit: shouldn't have posted so late at night.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

AIPA recipe now posted.

Again, the same deal with the hopping - I reckon Centennial and Chinook could be subbed for Citra, and possibly cascade. Dry hopped with Cascade would be another idea.

The AIPA is considerably more bitter than this one, but balanced with a bigger malt profile.

Goomba


----------



## Mattress

Drinking this now after 4 weeks in the bottle.

One of my best brews so far. Really enjoying it.

Thanks for the recipe.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Necro Bump for a few members that have asked my questions via PM.

Hope this makes it easier to find guys.

Goomba


----------



## Rowy

Aaaaah yes that hop bill!


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Rowy said:


> Aaaaah yes that hop bill!


Bring back memories? Tell me it was awful! 

I have mosiac, once I'm brewing again..........


----------



## Rowy

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Bring back memories? Tell me it was awful!
> 
> I have mosiac, once I'm brewing again..........


You'll love Mosaic Chris!


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Rowy said:


> You'll love Mosaic Chris!


Never used them before, but the description sounds right up my alley & great with this recipe.

We will have to do postal bottle swap, just for old times' sake.


----------



## Rowy

P.M me your address Chris I have acouple at the moment you should enjoy.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Rowy said:


> P.M me your address Chris I have acouple at the moment you should enjoy.


PM sent mate.

Will be great when I'm brewing again.

In the meantime, my AHB PM assistance & random bits of advice on various threads are keeping me eager.


----------



## angus_grant

he he, you will be getting a little stockpile via the mail with Rowy and I sending you bottles. Mine are an unknown quantity though being my first AG.... :chug: or :icon_vomit: , who can say??? 

So would this still work using BB Ale instead of the Perle Malt Bards? From looking at the two on CB, they both have the same EBC, which is the colour rating if I am not mistaken. There are no other specifications about the BB Ale. Reason being I have 25kg of BB Ale sitting in a drum, so would like to avoid buying more base malt if I can.

I have the cascade, but will have to buy the Citra and Galaxy. Man, starting to get a real stockpile of hops in the main fridge and chest freezer...

This will be my 3rd AG, and looking for a staple brew. Might nail out a couple of these for all the freeloaders coming over end of May for my son's 1st b'day..


----------



## mckenry

angus_grant said:


> So would this still work using BB Ale instead of the Perle Malt Bards? From looking at the two on CB, they both have the same EBC, which is the colour rating if I am not mistaken. There are no other specifications about the BB Ale. Reason being I have 25kg of BB Ale sitting in a drum, so would like to avoid buying more base malt if I can.


With all those hops and the crystal malt - no-one will ever know. Go for it.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

[SIZE=10.5pt]G'day Angus,[/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]


[SIZE=10.5pt]BB Ale will be fine. I find the Bairds has a more rounded, fuller and maltier feel to it (which I'd say about most malts viz. BB comparison), but I've done a British Bitter with BB Pale and found it went really well with Willamette as a good 'mate's beer' for those not into my styles of beer.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If you don't have any spec malt yet - find a good, characterful one - Simpsons, Weyermanns, TF FM - they'll have something good. Don't use Caramalt (if you don't need to) - I find it a little one dimensional - though if this is going to mates, it might be good backing off the malt a little.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Like mckenry said, I doubt anyone would notice (except me but I'm fussy).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Angus, let me know what you have (on this topic, so it's 'there' for all to see) on hand - hops wise, we might be able to squeeze something into this recipe, if you have some other good american fruity hops.[/SIZE]

And yeah, I didn't expect that from Rowy, but it'll be nice to swap again. He's had this beer before, in one of our many bottle swaps.  He actually made (IIRC) a black IPA using this recipe as a base.

But this is about as close (with the odd alteration of hops,[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]based on what I had on hand/what CB had on hand) to a 'house beer' as I have.


----------



## angus_grant

Saweet. Just need to order the Citra and Galaxy then. Will do 2 or hopefully 3 brews over Easter weekend and start fermenting on the Easter Monday in my spare double fridge. So should have 2 or 3 kegs (and some bottles) to condition in the double fridge.

With this being a fairly aroma-driven beer, will this last kegged and at fridge temps until end of May, or will it lose a fair bit of aroma?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

It'll be okay until may, but if your kegging it - I'd probably consider brewing it later any way. You can crash carbonate at any rate.

The other option may be hop teabag/something in the keg near drinking time.

Angus - let me know what hops you have in stock - we might be able to figure something out with those that will save you grabbing the above hops. Unless you want to go to CB that is


----------



## angus_grant

Chris,

I have the following hops:

1 lb cascade
2 lbs Saaz
1 lb Nugget
275g Galenas
50g Northern brewer (guess)
25g Pacific gem (guess)
50g Hallertauer (guess)
Maybe the Galena qualifies but I'm not really up on hop substitutions yet? One page I found talks about it being a substitute for the "C" hops, but then other pages mention chinook and magnum. It reads as a good bittering hop so might be too bitter for this beer.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Yeah, nah, buy the Citra and Galaxy.

I had another brewer through the thread use Chinook in place of Cascade (which I like the sound of), but this beer fundamentally centres on those fruity, passionfruity, type of hops and those won't give it to you.

Galena - maybe in place of Cascade, but not in place of Citra or Galaxy.

It's worth buying the real thing - and either CB has it, or Yob's new business will have it.


----------



## angus_grant

yeh, its only $20 for the hops from CB and that will be enough for at least 3 batches so $6 / batch. I pay more for a nice bottle of beer.....

Maybe I'll only make one batch of this one for the b'day. The punters may not like anything too flavoursome.. 

Actually making one batch now for me, and one for the party later on sounds like a great plan. Brew plan for Easter weekend!! Which means I'll need to get out to CB this weekend as I assume they are closed for Easter. Need to grab yeast for Vienna lager and hops for Lord Nelson Citra


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

angus_grant said:


> yeh, its only $20 for the hops from CB and that will be enough for at least 3 batches so $6 / batch. I pay more for a nice bottle of beer.....
> 
> Maybe I'll only make one batch of this one for the b'day. The punters may not like anything too flavoursome..
> 
> Actually making one batch now for me, and one for the party later on sounds like a great plan. Brew plan for Easter weekend!! Which means I'll need to get out to CB this weekend as I assume they are closed for Easter. Need to grab yeast for Vienna lager and hops for Lord Nelson Citra


Make a heap for you, and if your mates are happy drinking free beer, then they can drink what they're given. 

SWMBO has flagged a 'home day' for next weekend, which means making passata, relish, possibly gardening, a cooking day for the freezer and brewing beer. Woot!


----------



## Yob

Got the keg cut yet goomba?


----------



## angus_grant

yeh, Lord Raja, that's true actually. My mates will drink anything that's free. If they don't want to drink my beer they can go across the road to Dan Murphy's. he he...

I haven't told my wife about the 2 brew days over the Easter weekend. I just put them in our shared calendar. h34r:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Yob said:


> Got the keg cut yet goomba?


It will (or I'll crack it) be done by the easter weekend. I have the mate who's doing it on notice as of yesterday that I'll be brewing next weekend at the latest.

I just gave him 25kg of (free) pils grain - and he's keen to figure out how to mash, boil and ferment it for *ahem* whiskey. So I shouldn't have too much trouble obtaining his complicity.

@angus - I reckon that if they're getting beer for free, then the beer provider has free reign (within reason, a Cock Ale mightn't be on the cards). And I miss Dan's - the beer here is overpriced. It costs more for a tallie of Boags Draught (I occasionally have it to get the bottle from it) here than it did in Brisbane.


----------



## angus_grant

Yeh, I'm not too bothered if people don't want to drink it. With my keg fridge and wheely bin setup, I should be able to have 3 kegs on the go, so if people can't find something they want to drink, then there are 2 pubs 3 minutes away or a bottle shop across the road.

Sometimes things boggle the mind. Like the fact I can buy Australian hops from US suppliers for *MUCH* cheaper than Aus suppliers... International shipping included.. :blink: :blink:

Or the fact that it cost almost double to buy some Canterbury shorts 15kms from the factory in New Zealand than it did to buy in Aus. Needless to say, I didn't buy them.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

This is what I've come up with, based on what I have and what's available, for the current re-jig of this recipe.

I'll probably brew this over the Easter Long Weekend.

Admiral is Dead Mosaic Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale


Malt & Fermentables
% KG EBC Yield
91% 5 Mash 73 % Simpsons Maris Otter (UK)

9% 0.500 Mash 71 % Weyermann CaraRed



Mash Efficiency 75 %
Hops
Use Time Grams Hop Variety AA » IBU
boil 30 min 10.0 Chinook ~ pellet 13 » 10.8
boil 10 min 15.0 Mosaic ~ pellet 12.2 » 7.2
boil 10 min 15.0 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 3.2
boil 10 min 15.0 Citra ~ pellet 11.9 » 7
boil 10 min 15.0 Galaxy ~ pellet 13.4 » 7.9
dry hop 7 day 20.0 Cascade ~ pellet 5.5 » 0
dry hop 7 day 20.0 Citra ~ pellet 11.9 » 0
Bitterness 36.2 IBU
BU:GU
0.78
Yeast
Fermentis US-05 Alcohol
4.9% ABV
4% ABW


----------



## angus_grant

So it turns out that CB don't have any Heritage crystal. Can I sub this for Crystal Malt Medium (Bairds)? It has the same EBC number so colour addition should be similar. And the flavour descriptions sound the same.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Yep, that's fine.

Basically any crystal with a similar ebc number.

You might want to chuck in 50g of biscuit just to give it an extra kick to make up for heritage, but it isn't essential.


----------



## angus_grant

yay, bits ordered from CB. Will pick it up Saturday and put down two brews over Easter weekend. One to ferment on the Monday and drink as soon as possible and the other to cube and ferment sometime next month.

:chug: :icon_drool2:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

So we'll be brewing much the same beer on the same weekend. Bizarre how these things work out.

Can't wait to taste a decent (and cheap) APA. It's been a long time between good drinks.


----------



## angus_grant

A Qld vs Tas brew-off!!!!! Let the most northerly state win!! 

I may have to pick up a few more cubes at this rate. I've only got two 20L now. Think I may prefer some 25L cubes though as I plan on ending up with 23L so I can can keg and bottle a few as well. 25L with some air squeezed should do the trick.

I've got the Vienna lager cubed in my storage cupboard, will have a "Lord Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy subbed heritage for Bairds Crystal" pale ale cubed after Easter (and one kegged as well). Might try and find a good stout or dark ale recipe seeing as all the rest are ales or a lager. Perhaps a Black IPA just to jump on the band wagon!!

Need to build up my keg stocks a bit so I can justify getting 3-tap font for my kegerator. :super:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Sounds like you have it all planned, Angus.

Check out Supercheap Auto - I got some 25L cubes there for about $22 (SCA brand, not willow).

No Qld v Tas brew off - I don't have craftbrewer to access my fave grains (though I have got lots of hops now, thanks to Yob).

I remember when I did the IPA version of that beer - I had tons of US Cascade from a bulk buy from Niko, so I whacked about 60g of it in a couple of hop teabags and into the keg. For the first 3 days (I had force carbonated) the aroma was indescribable. Then, it dissipated a little to :icon_drool2: - suffice to say that keg didn't last all that long.

I had a Dark Ale - about my 2nd BIAB - and put some cherries in fermenation. Didn't make a Kriek, but left a nice slightly cherry aroma to the beer. Dark beers are easy. Take British Bitter recipe and then adjust. If you use BJCP guidelines, it just about tells you how to make the recipe.

Goomba


----------



## angus_grant

Will pick up some cubes next week once I get paid. Supercheap don't have the 25L SCA cubes on their website, just the 25L Willow cube for $25. Bunnings have some 25L HDPE cubes for $19. Winner!

Hmm, I have 2 lbs of pounds from a US hops bulk buy.... I am also going to grab some hop teabags from CB on Saturday to dry hop my keg, and I also want to start dry-hopping some IPAs for the aroma.

Oh my god, Irish Red is almost carbonated. Will be ready to test out on Saturday. Which is lucky because I am about to blow the Coopers IPA kit+bits keg I have running. The keg is VERY light. :unsure:

So I need to nail out this beer over Easter, get it fermented and kegged, and then run another brew and get it kegged. I keep running out of beer. The Wyeast yeasts are lot faster in fermenting than the kit yeasts so that will help build some stocks up. I have a mobile air-conditioner and am tempted to build an insulated cupboard to ferment ales in. Should be able to get temps to 18 degrees. I can then use the bar fridge for lagers. So many plans......


----------



## Yob

No worries goomba, what I couldn't fit into the pack I sent to you I gave away to another needful soul the other day.

Bit OT but I tasted my Mosaic/Citra/Centennial today and am pretty excited about it. Might send you a bottle down as a Victorian entry.

Cheers


----------



## angus_grant

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This beer better be good. I have just spent 50 minutes hand-cranking my tiny grain mill handle on 5Kg of grain. I've got sore arms, blisters, annoyed the neighbours (I live in a townhouse), but the critical problem is my wife asked me how much longer I would be cracking the grain. :blink: 

But I always search for a positive: I take that as permission from my wife to automate my grain mill! :super:

Can't wait to crack open the cascade and citra packs and breath deep!!!! :icon_drool2:


----------



## lukiferj

:icon_offtopic: Not sure what type of hand mill you have or where on the south side you live but if you get stuck again, happy to help out. I'm in Rochedale South and takes me around 5 mins to mill 5kgs.


----------



## angus_grant

got a Malt Muncher grain mill. The real problem is that I haven't got around to mounting the mill to anything so was holding the hopper and mill with one hand, and cranking on the tiny little handle with the other. I will definitely have it powered by the next time I need to mill grain...

huh, I live in Rochedale South as well just behind the Lions club... We should get together for a brew day sometime.

Goomba: is the mash temp for this beer really 71 degrees? It seems quite high to me, but given that it is only my 2nd AG, I know very little....


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Nope should be 65 degrees.

Nt sure why 71 came up, though I was going to try a low abv version.

If you did 71 degrees add an extra 10 IBU from 30minute addition to compensate for the extra body.

Maybe 71 is ystrike temp?


----------



## angus_grant

I'm about to start the boil and did mash at 71. oops... he he

Very lucky you posted Goomba. I had measured 30 grams of Galaxy for the 30 minute addition, instead of 7.5 grams. I adjusted the hops bill for no-chill.

Am adding 13 grams of Galaxy for the 30 minute addition to help account for the mash temp.

SG pre-boil came out 1 point less than BrewMate so pleased with that. Starting to dial in the beer system a little bit now. I'll have to do some reading on measuring efficiencies and see where I am sitting. Looks like BrewMates 70% default efficiency setting is about bang on.


----------



## angus_grant

2nd batch on my new brau-clone and it's going to be a Lord Nelson. Can't wait to get this back on tap again. Citra + cascade keg-hop... :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

Just need to grab wheat + crystal from LHBS. Don't have time to get to CB so hopefully my local has equivalent grains.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Angus!!!!! Long time no hear.

I might end up doing this recipe again.  I've got a current one with Belma, Citra, Mosaic, CTZ, Cascade, Apollo and Amarillo - great beer. But I only really did it because I had remnants of packets lying around (have ripped through about 1/2 a kg of Citra since I've been in tassie and haven't brewed that much).

I now have enough Nelson Sauvin and Galaxy, so this one will get a gig. And a S&W Clone.

I miss my kegs - keg hopping takes these beers to another level. As does heritage crystal. 

Good to hear it's still getting a gig at your joint, mate.

Cheers,

Goomba


----------



## angus_grant

Hey Goomba,

I am thinking I'll brew the Lord Nelson for the QLD case swap in July. So this batch I am hoping to end up with about 25L into the fermentor and bottle a few and see how they go. Will have to dry-hop after majority of ferment has happened and see what happens in the bottles.

I can't make it out to CB before brew day (Saturday) so I'll have to grab whatever crystal is at my local place, so most probably not heritage crystal.

That big passionfruit smack in the face is awesome. :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

Things have been pretty busy around here. New baby ready to drop in the next 4 weeks, so madly trying to get jobs finished around the house.

Thanks,
Angus.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Hey Angus

Good on you - that's your second, amiright?

Get yourself brewed up for about 6 months - I did when my youngest was born in October 2012. Worked a treat, and the older kids were able to help/hinder me.

Should be a good case swap beer - safe as hell. But the big passionfruit out of the keg is something else. Current beer hasn't got that, but does have an interesting stonefruit, citrus thing going. I have about 150g of Galaxy flowers, plus 200g of Nelson Sauvin Flowers. So booyeah. A couple of simpler hop regimes.

Are you chilling or no chilling yours - because I never no-chilled the recipe, but I'm starting to get cube hopping downpat and might have a crack with it.

Let me know how the dry hopping at the end of ferment goes. I was thinking of trying it out this time but forgot and BRY97 does scrub a little hopping I find.


----------



## angus_grant

yep 2nd kiddy. Hamish is 2 yrs old next month and is VERY mobile. Loves to help out in the garden or building, but I always brew when he is not home. Cause he would love to help out there.. :blink:

I am wondering how many batches of beer I can punch out over Easter break without upsetting 'er indoors. Would be good to queue up 4 or 5 cubes to hopefully last me through the first couple of months. I have Wed and Thu off next week, but have some pretty intensive work in the garden to do, so perhaps no brewing then. Unless I did it at night time.

Yep, I am fairly confident in the bottled beer being drinkable. It will be interesting to see how the dry-hop in fermentor comes out aroma-wise in the bottle. I have been using US-05 in my ales

I no-chill. Actually no-chilled the first 2 Nelsons. I cube-hopped my recent Hulk Smash Citra (5.5kgs BB Ale, about 35gms citra at 60, 10, and cube-hop) so we will see how that worked out. Currently fermenting and should be kegged end of next week. Also keg-hopping with citra. :icon_drool2: I should bought bulk quantities of citra....

I'll post back here about how the ferment hop goes with the Nelson.


----------



## philmud

LRG, there seems to be 3 different grain bills in this thread: the original with rye & caramunich, the "sans-Nelson" with red wheat & heritage crystal and the "Lord Nelson is dead" with 9% carared. Just curious if you prefer one over another? I'm planning on brewing this without the Nelson, but possibly with mosaic at 10 mins and dry.


----------



## shacked

Had a crack at this for my second AG BIAB in the crown urn and it turned out a real winner!! Messed up my cube hops and had to do a mini (2L) boil with some citra and DME half way through fermentation but it turned out a treat. 

It's only been in the bottle for 10 days and I've already chugged a good portion of the finished product. 

Thanks for sharing the recipe with us LRG!!!


----------

