# Kettle Shaking Uncontrollably



## fletcher (16/12/12)

hey all,

i'm about to start BIAB and wanted to check on how fast my stove top could heat up 18 litres of water in my new pot. i filled up the pot and turned on the stove (it's an electric glass-top stove) and within thirty seconds the pot began slowly shaking. after the water had heated up more it began violently shaking.

i'm guessing it was the convection of the water moving about, and the bottom of the pot not being perfectly straight and not flush on the stove top that did it. question is, is there any way to fix it so it doesn't rattle? 18 heavy litres on a glass stove top rattling about splashing boiling water/wort all over the place isn't conducive to making beer 

the pot is stainless steel but the base of it seems quite thin.

any ideas?


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## real_beer (16/12/12)

fletcher said:


> hey all,
> 
> i'm about to start BIAB and wanted to check on how fast my stove top could heat up 18 litres of water in my new pot. i filled up the pot and turned on the stove (it's an electric glass-top stove) and within thirty seconds the pot began slowly shaking. after the water had heated up more it began violently shaking.
> 
> ...


Is there any water getting trapped underneath from a pinhole leak & turning to steam?


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## fletcher (16/12/12)

real_beer said:


> Is there any water getting trapped underneath from a pinhole leak & turning to steam?



nope, none i could see. the pot seems quite water-tight.


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## Truman42 (16/12/12)

I'm guessing its a convection hot plate especially as its glass. The vibrations are probably caused by the bottom of the pot being bent and not making good contact with the convection coils underneath. 

The only way to fix it would be to straighten out the bottom to make it flatter


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## fletcher (16/12/12)

Truman said:


> I'm guessing its a convection hot plate especially as its glass. The vibrations are probably caused by the bottom of the pot being bent and not making good contact with the convection coils underneath.
> 
> The only way to fix it would be to straighten out the bottom to make it flatter



yeah you're spot on i think mate. i have zero idea about how to make it flatter. it's literally out of the box, but even tapping on it i can feel that the bottom is just as thin as the sides. any ideas on how to make it flatter? 

fml.


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## real_beer (16/12/12)

fletcher said:


> yeah you're spot on i think mate. i have zero idea about how to make it flatter. it's literally out of the box, but even tapping on it i can feel that the bottom is just as thin as the sides. any ideas on how to make it flatter?
> 
> fml.


You might be best buying an element like this http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853 or invest in a thicker based better quality pot for the stove. There's a good chance you'll just ruin the pot trying to flatten it. :icon_cheers:


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## fletcher (16/12/12)

real_beer said:


> You might be best buying an element like this http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853 or invest in a thicker based better quality pot for the stove. There's a good chance you'll just ruin the pot trying to flatten it. :icon_cheers:



very true haha. that seems like a decent cheaper option (the element). i guess they can also be used by just dropping it in the top of the pot right? or must they be inserted in with drilling a hole etc?

i'll have to price up some other pots too but i'm scared the same thing will happen.


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## Thefatdoghead (16/12/12)

fletcher said:


> hey all,
> 
> i'm about to start BIAB and wanted to check on how fast my stove top could heat up 18 litres of water in my new pot. i filled up the pot and turned on the stove (it's an electric glass-top stove) and within thirty seconds the pot began slowly shaking. after the water had heated up more it began violently shaking.
> 
> ...


My guess is you need to grow a brain? I mean how stupid is your question? Its called energy gahhhh the stupidness.


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## fletcher (16/12/12)

Gav80 said:


> My guess is you need to grow a brain? I mean how stupid is your question? Its called energy gahhhh the stupidness.




i know WHAT caused it. i asked if anyone knew if it could be fixed or had ideas. no need to be a dickhead, honestly. if you can't help, or don't want to, shut your cake hole.


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## Punkal (16/12/12)

I use 2 of those elements in my 50L kettle. On will hold a nice (ish) boil and 2 gives me a good rolling boil. Used with a smaller volume it should work good. 

You will need a 32mm hole saw, they are cheap online but I got a good one from a hardware store and it rips through stainless no problems.

Good luck... Obviously you have a brain you did a wet run and didn't just jump right in and make a real mess.


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## potof4x (16/12/12)

Has it stopped yet?


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## fletcher (16/12/12)

cheers for the info punkal 

i just ended up just taking it off the stove top, potof4x, it wouldn't stop. was pretty funny to look at to be honest. picture beer making mixed with the exorcist


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## Beerisyummy (17/12/12)

fletcher said:


> cheers for the info punkal
> 
> i just ended up just taking it off the stove top, potof4x, it wouldn't stop. was pretty funny to look at to be honest. picture beer making mixed with the exorcist



Are you sure it's not an induction cooktop mate? They can do some pretty crazy things if the incorrect cookware is used. Over the years I've had plenty of clients get them installed and then freak out at the cost of replacing all their cookware.
Surry Hills. Glass top. It's not totally uncommon to have a wizz bang induction top installed.

As for sorting out the pot so it sits flat, I have used the phone book treatment in the past. You don't really need a phone book but you will need something to use as a buffer so you don't impart too much force all in one spot. Flip the pot upside down on a flat surface, place a phone book on top and give it a good solid whack in the middle. You should get a slight hollow in the middle that'll allow the pot to sit on the outer edge and stay stable. 
Most of the thin bottom pots I looked at have a raised section in the middle as part of the pressing. All the weight sits on a ring around the outer edge during use and stops them from wandering about.
A much simpler solution than buying an element and drilling out the pot. 

PS. I just noticed the "grow a brain" comment. Very helpful (even if it was meant to be tongue in cheek).

HTH.

Ross.


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## beerdrinkingbob (17/12/12)

I have no idea why no one has mentioned it but it's the type of base that is the issue.....

Snip
Induction cooking uses induction heating to directly heat a cooking vessel, as opposed to using heat transfer from electrical coils or burning gas as with a traditional cooking stove. For nearly all models of induction cooktop, a cooking vessel must be made of a ferromagnetic metal, or placed on an interface disk which enables non-induction cookware to be used on induction cooking surfaces.

In an induction cooker, a coil of copper wire is placed underneath the cooking pot. An alternating electric current flows through the coil, which produces an oscillating magnetic field. This field induces an electric current in the pot. Current flowing in the metal pot produces resistive heating which heats the food. While the current is large, it is produced by a low voltage.

An induction cooker is faster and more energy-efficient than a traditional electric cooking surface. It allows instant control of cooking energy similar to gas burners. Other cooking methods use flames or red-hot heating elements; induction heating only heats the pot. Because the surface of the cook top is only heated from contact with the vessel, the possibility of burn injury is significantly less than with other methods. The induction effect does not heat the air around the vessel, resulting in further energy efficiencies. Cooling air is blown through the electronics but emerges only a little warmer than ambient temperature.

The magnetic properties of a steel vessel concentrate the induced current in a thin layer near its surface, which makes the heating effect stronger. In non-magnetic materials like aluminum, the magnetic field penetrates too far, and the induced current encounters little resistance in the metal.[1] At least one high-frequency cooker is available, that works with lower efficiency on non-ferrous cookware.


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## Truman42 (17/12/12)

fletcher said:


> yeah you're spot on i think mate. i have zero idea about how to make it flatter. it's literally out of the box, but even tapping on it i can feel that the bottom is just as thin as the sides. any ideas on how to make it flatter?
> 
> fml.



I missed that part where you said the pot was new. You could try putting it on a smaller element which doesn't cover the enitre pots surface and therefore the area in contact with the pot is nice and flat. Thats assuming your pot is flatter in the middle than towrds the edges. But then you might not get enough power to boil the water. If that doesnt work then you will have to ditch it for another pot. 

Are you sure the bottom of the pot is stainless? Sometimes the sides can be stainless but the bottom a sandwich of stainless and aluminium. That can cause all sorts of problems with convection hotplates which won't work with aluminium bases.



> My guess is you need to grow a brain? I mean how stupid is your question? Its called energy gahhhh the stupidness.



@GAV80...What sort of answer is that. He obviously knows whats causing the vibrations, he wanted to know how he can fix it. 
How stupid was your answer???
Maybe you should read the question properly and either come up with a helpful reply or dont reply at all.


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## GalBrew (17/12/12)

fletcher said:


> hey all,
> 
> i'm about to start BIAB and wanted to check on how fast my stove top could heat up 18 litres of water in my new pot. i filled up the pot and turned on the stove (it's an electric glass-top stove) and within thirty seconds the pot began slowly shaking. after the water had heated up more it began violently shaking.
> 
> ...


The exact same thing happened to me on a ceramic cooktop with a cheap stainless pot. The solution is quite simple really. To prevent the pot from shaking you have to hear the water/wort at a slower rate. If you turn the element down to about 3/4 it should be fine. It used to take me an hour to get 14L to strike temp, but it worked. For your boil you need to do the same but once you get past a couple of wobbles you can turn the element up to full.


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## yum beer (17/12/12)

Souns like a Big W stainless pot, I have one and its does the same thing sometimes if it doesnt have much liquid in it, the problem goes away once there is

a decent amount in it, or by pushing down on the pot once its on the stove to force the middle to concave.

If it doesnt stop shaking then take it back and swap it, the pot is for cooking not dancing.


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## Beerisyummy (17/12/12)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> I have no idea why no one has mentioned it but it's the type of base that is the issue.....



Even the OP stated that in the first post.

The reason I mentioned induction cooktops (along with a way to solve the bottom of the pot) is that they can make thin steel rattle. Thin stainless pots are great for this.


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## Truman42 (17/12/12)

Beerisyummy said:


> Even the OP stated that in the first post.
> 
> The reason I mentioned induction cooktops (along with a way to solve the bottom of the pot) is that they can make thin steel rattle. Thin stainless pots are great for this.




+1.. Yeh sorry I meant to say induction cook top as well not convection.


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## Beerisyummy (17/12/12)

Truman said:


> +1.. Yeh sorry I meant to say induction cook top as well not convection.



No probs. I don't think he's got an induction top anyway, but it might explain rattling of a full pot of water holding a steady boil if it turns out not to be the base.

Edit:
Just as an experiment for the OP. Place the empty pot over a hot plate and turn it on.
Does it vibrate?

If not let it heat up for a bit and see how much the bottom domes downwards when the metal gets a bit of heat in it. If you can get that dome to go upwards the pot will work just fine.

OT. Has anyone used one of these yet? http://www.breville.com.au/cooking/hot-pla...quick-time.html
I've got a few vouchers to spend and the idea of a temperature controlled and timed hotplate would make small scale BIAB pretty simple.


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## fletcher (17/12/12)

wow, so many helpful replies, thank you!!

i'll definitely try some of these ideas, particularly the testing of the pot and slowing the heating before bringing the water to the boil. it is a new pot, from dave's home brew in north sydney. it isn't the most expensive cookware (was about $75 from memory) and when you look on the underside of it, it curves upward slightly so that when on a flat surface it does rock a bit.

when i finish work i'll have a better read through your responses and see what i can try and test out. beerisyummy, it is an induction glass stove top, yes.

really appreciate your help. thanks all.


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## GalBrew (17/12/12)

fletcher said:


> wow, so many helpful replies, thank you!!
> 
> i'll definitely try some of these ideas, particularly the testing of the pot and slowing the heating before bringing the water to the boil. it is a new pot, from dave's home brew in north sydney. it isn't the most expensive cookware (was about $75 from memory) and when you look on the underside of it, it curves upward slightly so that when on a flat surface it does rock a bit.
> 
> ...



That is where got my pot from, just experiment with lower heating rates and don't knock the pot. 
You will be fine.


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## Beerisyummy (17/12/12)

Nice one Fletcher. You're going to love the BIAB compared to the extracts and adjuncts. The whole experience is better, not to mention the taste.

Using a thin pot, with an unsteady base, on an induction cooker is not really making the best use of the equipment. This is something I've been looking into a fair bit lately while trying to design a simple brew station for inner Sydney living.
There are a few products available that act as diffuser plates for induction cooking(and someone mentioned them earlier). Using a plate like that in the pot is where I'm at right now. My hope is that the plate will act like a large, low wattage per mm heating element which would solve so many problems on a small stove top rig.
No driling of pots for elements, no scorching of wort, accurate control of temperature, easy as cleaning and the next best thing to having an element directly transfering heat into the kettle. It wouldn't interfere with any whirlpools either, although it seems they don't matter too much in a smaller diameter pot.

+1 for Dave's Homebrew. The boys have always done the right thing by me and all the gear I've bought has been good quality for a reasonable price. You can get stuff cheaper but a business needs to charge a mark up for doing all the running around for you.


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## jaypes (17/12/12)

Fletcher, do you have any space for a gas ring burner? Might be a cheap fix


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## Punkal (17/12/12)

Sorry a little off topic but why is everyone afraid of drilling a pot? Its not expensive you can get a $20 drill from bunnings (if you don't already have one), hole saws can be expensive but its not hard to find them cheap then you can brew wherever you like, if/when you upgrade you already have the tools and an element.


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## fletcher (17/12/12)

jaypes said:


> Fletcher, do you have any space for a gas ring burner? Might be a cheap fix



i've got a tiny surry hills apartment with a small balcony that _could_ fit one...will have to see how my tests go tonight with slowly bringing the pot to boil on my stove


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## fletcher (17/12/12)

galbrew, your idea worked perfectly, thank you. keeping it on about 3/4 helped a bunch then when it was close to strike temp, it could be at full power with no problem.

3/4 power still kept a nice rolling boil too so i could even keep it there for the 60 mins no troubles.

thank you everyone for your ideas and suggestions; helped me a bunch, not only for my next few batches, but for ideas for future ones too. 

sexyfuntime


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## jaypes (18/12/12)

Good to hear

I didnt have the patience for my electric stove at home - its either boiling over or stone cold, no real medium. My missus HATES it (damn you rental house)

I forked the cashola for a 4 ring burner, didnt realise how big it was - but well chuffed I got the 4 instead of the 3.

Besides the missus was not really into the aroma of malt and hops in the morning - not sure why!?


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## GalBrew (18/12/12)

fletcher said:


> galbrew, your idea worked perfectly, thank you. keeping it on about 3/4 helped a bunch then when it was close to strike temp, it could be at full power with no problem.
> 
> 3/4 power still kept a nice rolling boil too so i could even keep it there for the 60 mins no troubles.
> 
> ...



Excellent! I felt your pain I had the identical problem with the identical pot when I started brewing. I brewed quite a few batches before I moved out of that apartment with the electric/glass cooktop. Once you get up past a certain point you can jack it up to full though.

Happy brewing :icon_cheers:


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