# Lager With Ale Yeast



## christmasbender (12/5/09)

hello everyone

i want to ask some advice. i recently brewed my first lager and the other half loved it. so now she wants me to keep up supply of lager in the house. this would be fine if i had the capacity to brew both ales and lagers at the same time but i only have one fermenting fridge and 2 fermenters. when i did the lager it took up my fridge for a couple of months.

so want i want to know is can i brew a lager or a pilsner with an ale yeast? can i take the grain & hop bill of a lager / pilsner and substitute the yeast for an ale yeast and make an ok brew? if so what would be an appropriate yeast to use?

any advice or suggestions welcomed.

cheers

christmasbender


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## warrenlw63 (12/5/09)

christmasbender said:


> hello everyone
> 
> i want to ask some advice. i recently brewed my first lager and the other half loved it. so now she wants me to keep up supply of lager in the house. this would be fine if i had the capacity to brew both ales and lagers at the same time but i only have one fermenting fridge and 2 fermenters. when i did the lager it took up my fridge for a couple of months.
> 
> ...



Christmasbender

It's getting on for winter in Melbourne. Pretty soon you'll be able to brew lagers without a fridge so you shouldn't really have a problem.

Warren -


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## christmasbender (12/5/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Christmasbender
> 
> It's getting on for winter in Melbourne. Pretty soon you'll be able to brew lagers without a fridge so you shouldn't really have a problem.
> 
> Warren -




hi warren

yes it is beginning to get a bit chilly but i prefer to brew in the fridge to keep a constant temp. melbourne even though it's getting colder can have fluctuating temps.

also i want to have a faster turn around with this brew - i.e. not have to ferment longer with lager yeast and lager the brew too and taking up one of my fermenters for too long (will get back into brewing lagers when i move house and up my fridge/fermenter count).

so if anyone has a good recipe for a lager / pilsner type quaffer with an ale yeast i'd be happy to hear it. doesn't have to be anything too fancy just a drinkable brew.

cheers

christmasbender


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## Steve (12/5/09)

christmasbender said:


> hi warren
> 
> yes it is beginning to get a bit chilly but i prefer to brew in the fridge to keep a constant temp. melbourne even though it's getting colder can have fluctuating temps.
> 
> ...



G'day - why not make her a Kolsch using WLP 029? (this is an ale yeast). I just made a double batch and its very simple but very tasty. The recipe is the flavour of the week thread for Kolsch.....I'll dig it up.
Cheers
Steve

Edit: last couple of posts in this thread:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...20&start=20


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## Hutch (12/5/09)

I would strongly recommend using Saflager S189 (Craftbrewer "Swiss Lager"). This ferments well up into the 'teens, and gets the job done quickly (typically in a week in my experience). Most importantly it is very clean, and requires minimal lagering (say a few weeks) to clean up after itself. Doesn't produce the characteristic Czech or German Pilsner esters, though it does make for a fast grain to brain (in lager terms).

Plenty of other positive reports on AHB about this yeast if you do a search.
Cheers,
Hutch.


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## porky (12/5/09)

Mate,

We have used California Lager yeast Wyeast #2112 with good results. 
We did control the temp, but it was up there with ale yeasts...we do them at 18 degrees.

Cheers,
Bud


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## Fourstar (12/5/09)

Theres 2 options: Pseudo lager yeasts, and ales brewed in a lager style. IMO, go for a pseudo lager yeast like California Lager yeast. This will get you quite close to lager flavour profiles with up to ale temps (14-18deg) also with a quick turnaround like an ale too.

Other option is to brew at low temps with a high flocc, low profile yeast and brewed at very low ale temps (<=18deg) . My choice would be US-05. Honestly, dont expect it to taste like a lager, because it wont. it will be cleaner than your everyday ale as it wont throw fruity esters at those temps.

Also i believe lagers yeasts break down some sugars that ale yeasts do not. That would have a flavour impact IMO that ale yeasts will never replicate, regardless of the fermentation temperature.


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## chappo1970 (12/5/09)

christmasbender said:


> ..i want to know is can i brew a lager or a pilsner with an ale yeast? can i take the grain & hop bill of a lager / pilsner and substitute the yeast for an ale yeast and make an ok brew? if so what would be an appropriate yeast to use?
> 
> any advice or suggestions welcomed.
> 
> ...



The short and the tall of it is yes you can using good old S05. Brews clean and seeing you have a fermentation fridge maintaining constant temps will be a breeze. You will still need to CC/Lager to help it drop clean and bright. I believe a BABBS member won the Pils/Lager mini comp on a Faux Lager with S05 few years back?

Cheers

Chappo


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## Sammus (12/5/09)

US05 can be pretty clean, if I was going to try and make something like a lager with an ale yeast, itd be my first choice.


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## christmasbender (12/5/09)

thanks for all the tips guys - think i'll do something simple with us-05

cheers

christmasbender


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## seemax (12/5/09)

Nottingham @ 16C is a good option, pretty clean and neutral, although wont offer the crispness of a lager.

US-05 is the old fave, same deal though.

S-189 is clean(ish) at 14C... but even at 10-11C should be done in 10days, then CCfor 10days, bottle... ready to go within a month.

Otherwise double your batch size and reduce your brewing pressure!


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## Bribie G (12/5/09)

Best two fake lagers I have ever made were made on US-05. It will ferment happily and cleanly at 16 degrees and make a great lager. At that temp it can be a lot slower than using it as a true ale yeast at 20 degrees but ferments out clean - as.

BTW the bottles in the photo are my brew, not the original. I cropped it and accidentally cut out the gold Home Brew crowns... honest :lol: 





Edit: I have a house beer that I've recently 'developed' and it's a simple trad. Australian lager on one malt and one addition of Pride of Ringwood and I would like to crank it out a bit quicker than is possible with lager yeasts such as Weiheinstephan etc. I've got one in lagering at the moment, it's been a month since I pitched and really I'd like to get them out as quick as an ale if possible. So rather than going back to US-05 I've been investigating this yeast:

http://www.maurivinyeast.com/y.aspx?id=15&...&menuid=324

Which is an Australian yeast. It will ferment cleanly at 20 degrees, they claim, and I've just done a batch of my house brew identical in every way to the one currently in lagering. It's finished fermenting in seven days  at 20, I'm going to cold crash it along with the one that's been there for a month already and bottle them both at the same time, probably next Wednesday. 

Then the taste-off will tell.


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## lastdrinks (5/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Best two fake lagers I have ever made were made on US-05. It will ferment happily and cleanly at 16 degrees and make a great lager. At that temp it can be a lot slower than using it as a true ale yeast at 20 degrees but ferments out clean - as.
> 
> BTW the bottles in the photo are my brew, not the original. I cropped it and accidentally cut out the gold Home Brew crowns... honest :lol:
> 
> ...



How did this yeast turn out BribieG? As good as they say on their website?


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## pdilley (6/8/09)

Did the same. I think from a conversation with BribieG.

US-05 at 16C, my grain bill was simple--it was single. Dry, lager like, great for drinking with a spicy curry! mmmm beef vindaloo... :icon_drool2: 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## chappo1970 (6/8/09)

Actually BribieG shared a bottle of this at the May? BABBS meeting... IIRC I really liked it and it was difficult to believe is wasn't a lager to be honest. Hmmmm maybe I'll have a crack at one of the these some day?

Chappo


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## Bribie G (6/8/09)

Yup, still my best 'lager' so far, although it's not a quick yeast at lower temperatures. I've found with US-05 that it will ferment strongly for about a week then seems to drop to a frothy scummy little krausen that just keeps on and on. Racking to secondary then a ten day cold crash gets the bugger waving the white flag eventually  I went on to Morgan's lager yeast (Mauribrew lager) for a while and have had good results and a quicker ferment, and although it's a very 'neutral' tasting yeast it's not such a clean finish. So I grabbed some US-05 when I was passing a HB shop in Maroochydore a few weeks ago and will definitely go back to making the "Solly Cerveza" again.

Edit: Where I have had good success with the Mauribrew is in more hop driven brews with Green Bullet, B Saaz, NZ Cascade etc etc that can get away with being a bit more 'fruity' however for a Single Malt Single Hop clean beer I'm swinging back to US - 05 for sure.


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## cozmocracker (16/10/10)

Sorry to dig up an old thread but better than starting a new one, im brewing a pilsener today and i am going to be using whitelabs cal ale 001 slurry from an APA im kegging today,

RECIPE

pils malt 5kg
60min hallertau 45g
15min hallertau 20g
0min hallertau 25g

mash at 64 for 90 min
90min boil
ferment at 16

anyone see any problems using this yeast? any thoughts? any feed back welcome,

cheers coz


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## Nick JD (16/10/10)

A big part of the lager taste is the Pils malt. 

Running S189 and US05 at 14C and 18C, I'd say the base malt you use will have a bigger impact on the final taste than the yeast.


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