# John Smith - Extra Smooth a taste of....well nothing.



## Kiwifirst (23/4/14)

Over in NZ at the moment and had dinner with friends. The discussion came round to home few and my friend gave me a challenge. To make a clone of his fav beer, John Smiths Extra Smooth. He gave me a couple of cans, with the nitrogen widget as homework. I dutifully began the experiment. Chilled the can and poured, I let it warm a little before drinking and I'd have to admit that extra smooth is a good description. However, taste was a different story. There was none. No malt, no hops (didn't expect hops) it was just cold and smooth with no fore, during or after taste what so ever. I did expect a brown malt flavour at least.

Has anyone here drank these? Did I get a dud can? Otherwise to clone this, I'll just add brown food colouring to a keg of water and carbonate it with nitrogen.


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## Mardoo (23/4/14)

Nope, not a dud can. That about sums it up.


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## NewtownClown (23/4/14)

Why not put the challenge back on him? Find a new favourite beer with character that hasn't been produced for a mass market


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## Bribie G (23/4/14)

They probably like it because it reminds them of Tui.

John Smiths was ruined decades ago, it's actually one of the very few surviving dreaded keg beers of the 1960s. First it got taken over by Courage, who merged with Scottish and Newcastle to form Scottish Courage then the whole lot got swallowed by Heineken. I'm from Yorkshire originally and can't remember a time that JS wasn't a bland cold gassy brew. It's really the equivalent of a Midlands Mild migrated a bit North of its home territory.
Wasn't too bad swilling a few pints of the original stuff that was served off bright tank on a hot summer day at the 3 Horseshoes in Grandma's village but not really an after dinner drink. Another beer they have totally ruined is Tetleys.


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## Foster (23/4/14)

Bribie G said:


> They probably like it because it reminds them of Tui.
> 
> John Smiths was ruined decades ago, it's actually one of the very few surviving dreaded keg beers of the 1960s. First it got taken over by Courage, who merged with Scottish and Newcastle to form Scottish Courage then the whole lot got swallowed by Heineken. I'm from Yorkshire originally and can't remember a time that JS wasn't a bland cold gassy brew. It's really the equivalent of a Midlands Mild migrated a bit North of its home territory.
> Wasn't too bad swilling a few pints of the original stuff that was served off bright tank on a hot summer day at the 3 Horseshoes in Grandma's village but not really an after dinner drink. Another beer they have totally ruined is Tetleys.
> ...


 Im from Yorkshire too mate. And "them wer't days" has never been truer. Back in the day, the beers were better made, however, they had to be managed properly to get the best out of them. Folk would travel for miles to drink Tetleys in the Gaping Goose in Garforth or Ye olde three tuns in Thirsk.

The smiths & tetleys in can is a waste of money, im afraid.


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## Danwood (23/4/14)

Boo, white rose....yay, red rose !!

Agreed, shit beer.


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## Weizguy (23/4/14)

Coincidence that John Smith and James Squire share the same initials and have both declined into flavourlessness?

Probably...


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## TimT (23/4/14)

On the subject of shit beers, I had a drop of Negra Modelo the other night. I love rich, strong, malty beers, stouts and porters of all description, and was wondering about this one. Don't bother. A thin and listless and utterly characterless beer, no malt taste, no hop taste, no smell, nothing. In fact if the brewer had been able to get away with brewing it without water either, I'm sure they would have. Nice label but.


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## wide eyed and legless (23/4/14)

I had a Worthington gassed with N2, waste of drinking space.


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## Kiwifirst (23/4/14)

Thanks for that guys. I think that I will make him a Brown Ale with this ESB yeast I have going. If this is the state of English bitters these days then I think I'll not waste my money buying any to sample to clone. My friend pays a fortune for these John Smiths and they re total shite.
My current Northern bitter with ESB yeast which I am only rating three stars is a much better brew.

If Worthingtons is the same, has Bodingtons followed suit? Sounds like all the NG beers sound crap.


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## RobB (26/4/14)

Kiwifirst said:


> ...........If Worthingtons is the same, has Bodingtons followed suit? Sounds like all the NG beers sound crap.


There's Worthingtons and there's Worthingtons. White Shield is a fantastic beer, so I was only too happy to order Worthington's Cream Flow when I first saw it. Silky smooth, yellow water. I suspect this is what WE&L was unfortunate enough to imbibe.


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## wide eyed and legless (26/4/14)

Malty Cultural said:


> There's Worthingtons and there's Worthingtons. White Shield is a fantastic beer, so I was only too happy to order Worthington's Cream Flow when I first saw it. Silky smooth, yellow water. I suspect this is what WE&L was unfortunate enough to imbibe.


Spot on Malty Cultural luckily it was only a 1/2 pint which I imbibed, I drank it too


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## Oakers (26/4/14)

This discussion reminds me of a pint of Boddingtons i had in the UK about 10 months ago. It was the first pint of beer that I haven't been able to finish in ages. the description of John Smith Extra Smooth sounds just like it. Watery brown nothingness. To be honest a lot of the regular pints in the UK seem to have descended into this. While on my holiday last year I drank about 150 pints, hardly drinking the same beer twice. By far the best beers were from the smaller breweries and quite often using American hops…just about sums up the state of large scale brewing in the UK.


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## Lodan (26/4/14)

Kiwifirst said:


> Thanks for that guys. I think that I will make him a Brown Ale with this ESB yeast I have going. If this is the state of English bitters these days then I think I'll not waste my money buying any to sample to clone. My friend pays a fortune for these John Smiths and they re total shite.
> My current Northern bitter with ESB yeast which I am only rating three stars is a much better brew.
> 
> If Worthingtons is the same, has Bodingtons followed suit? Sounds like all the NG beers sound crap.


What better way to introduce a friend to home brew than cloning a brew that he likes, even if you think it isn't flash, proving that you can match (or exceed) it for less cash? 
A far nicer thing than brewing a different beer and telling him he should like it more imo


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## spog (26/4/14)

TimT said:


> On the subject of shit beers, I had a drop of Negra Modelo the other night. I love rich, strong, malty beers, stouts and porters of all description, and was wondering about this one. Don't bother. A thin and listless and utterly characterless beer, no malt taste, no hop taste, no smell, nothing. In fact if the brewer had been able to get away with brewing it without water either, I'm sure they would have. Nice label but.


Sounds like 2 beers I had over the Easter/ Anzac break,one is the Hogwash Bend Lager ( Caudo winery at Cadell in the river land ) and the other is Sun Chaser Lager from the Yalata brewery.
Cheers...spog....


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## Blind Dog (26/4/14)

I've only seen my dad cry twice and once was when he tried JS extra smooth (Bradford boy). Unfortunately it about as much relevance to an english bitter (or decent beer full stop) as a dog turd has to a truffle . 

If your friend really likes it, do 2 things:

1. try a 95%+ pale ale malt(any), rest low EBC (30 ish) crystal mix, mashed at 66C for 60, plus any english hops to an overall IBU / Original Gravity ratio of 0.6 or so. With 80%+ of IBU from the 60 min bittering addition and the rest from late additions. Choose any english yeast to ferment. When done, keg/bottle with C02 to 1.5 volumes and condition for 2 weeks minimum. Taste it, keep it and ditch yor mate

2. Collect 20L of cats piss, add sugar, ferment


Pretty sure option 1 is a tasty, but unassuming beer and 
option 2 is JS extra smooth clone


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## manticle (26/4/14)

TimT said:


> On the subject of shit beers, I had a drop of Negra Modelo the other night. I love rich, strong, malty beers, stouts and porters of all description, and was wondering about this one. Don't bother. A thin and listless and utterly characterless beer, no malt taste, no hop taste, no smell, nothing. In fact if the brewer had been able to get away with brewing it without water either, I'm sure they would have. Nice label but.


I've had very fresh negra modelo which was tasty and quite badly oxidised negra modelo which was not. Beer changes states depending on where it's been. I wouldn't avoid it because of one bad example. Not the world's best beer, but far from the worst. Oxidation flattens and dulls beer which sounds like what you experienced.


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## Kiwifirst (27/4/14)

Lodan said:


> What better way to introduce a friend to home brew than cloning a brew that he likes, even if you think it isn't flash, proving that you can match (or exceed) it for less cash?
> A far nicer thing than brewing a different beer and telling him he should like it more imo


Actually think that making this would be quite difficult. I have no idea how to go about making a full bodied beer with no hop or malt tast.


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## manticle (27/4/14)

pale malt, coloured invert sugar, gentle bittering to around 16 IBU, mash high and short. Neutral yeast


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## dago001 (27/4/14)

Foster said:


> The smiths & tetleys in can is a waste of money, im afraid.


Drank a bit of Tetleys from the cask in the UK last year. Not the best beer I tried, but certainly not the worst. Never tried it from the can. I have tried the Smiths smooth. Again not the best beer, but far from the worst I have tried. In saying that, I woudnt want to clone it.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (29/4/14)

It's the English version of "how do I make VB/CD/TN for my mates to drink".

I'm angry that we continue to pay top dollar for tasteless English beer and despite the exchange rate being far strong that a number of years ago (used to by Newky Brown for $14 a six pack a few years ago).


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## Foster (29/4/14)

Im currently in North Yorkshire & have had a pint or 6 of Black Sheep & Theakestons & the York Brewery traditional ales. All excellent examples of English real ale IMO. Theyre all fairly locally brewed & definately fresh due to good turn over. They are all very drinkable & all got more taste & mouth feel than Morrison Bitter for example.


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## dago001 (29/4/14)

Foster said:


> Im currently in North Yorkshire & have had a pint or 6 of Black Sheep & Theakestons & the York Brewery traditional ales. All excellent examples of English real ale IMO. Theyre all fairly locally brewed & definately fresh due to good turn over. They are all very drinkable & all got more taste & mouth feel than Morrison Bitter for example.


Bastard - and i mean that in the nicest possible way. Oooh how i wish I was with you. York brewery real ales were one of our highlights of our trip to the UK. I was quite keen for the Ghost Ale while Mrs Slowhand was nuts about the Terrier Bitter. Enjoy you lucky bastard.
Cheers
LB


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## anthonyUK (29/4/14)

There is a godawful campaign running in the UK at the moment called 'Let there be beer' which when launched sounded like a good idea to promote beer and especially beer with food but it became apparent that this campaign, which was the brainchild of 5 of the megaswill brigade - Carlsberg, Molson Coors, Heineken, ABInBev and SABMiller, was just about promoting their crappy product.
There are some of the TV adverts on youtube promoting the joys of Fosters Radler (Shandy in the 70's) etc with...... a barbeque, inspired thinking there.

Anyway here's a link the the equally laughable video promoting the joys of John Smiths.





Regarding cloning it, I think you'll find it difficult to make something this flavourless TBH. Maybe use a single can kit and some sugar rather than AG


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## Kiwifirst (30/4/14)

anthonyUK said:


> Regarding cloning it, I think you'll find it difficult to make something this flavourless TBH. Maybe use a single can kit and some sugar rather than AG


I am going to make a AG Brown Ale and let him try that. I am convinced he'll realise he is currently paying ridiculous amounts of money for a can of shite.


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## Beer Ninja (30/4/14)

Foster said:


> Im from Yorkshire too mate. And "them wer't days" has never been truer. Back in the day, the beers were better made, however, they had to be managed properly to get the best out of them. Folk would travel for miles to drink Tetleys in the Gaping Goose in Garforth or Ye olde three tuns in Thirsk.
> 
> The smiths & tetleys in can is a waste of money, im afraid.


I'm from Yorkshire too. My Neighbour is also from Yorkshire and keeps asking me to brew him a John Smiths clone. I refuse  Terrible stuff.

On the subject of Tetleys, back in't day, there was just one pub in the little market town of Dewsbury (not too far from Garforth!) called The Market Tavern. The hand pulled Tetleys here was served like nowhere else. The body was 'milky' and smooth. If you had the desire, you could literally down a pint in one go with ease.

I don't know what the pub landlord did to serve it like that. I suppose he was the only one keeping his Tetleys properly.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/4/14)

:icon_offtopic:

I was watching wallace & gromit the other day (were-rabbit one) with my kids, other parents, etc.

Noticed Wallace's magazine was called "Ay Up" - looked like the writing of "Hello!" mag (obviously).

Had me a cracking great laugh, and no-one could figure it out. Summat wrong with them.

My Fam (well part of it, they come from far and wide over the world - well the isles and india for the most part) are from the other side of the Pennines, though I do (masochistically and from a safe distance) support Leeds United.


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## malt and barley blues (30/4/14)

Support Leeds United, tha will be telling us next that masochistically you enjoy John Smiths Extra Smooth


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/4/14)

malt & barley blues said:


> Support Leeds United, tha will be telling us next that masochistically you enjoy John Smiths Extra Smooth


I'm not _that _peverse. One basket case is enough for us.


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## Kiwifirst (30/4/14)

malt & barley blues said:


> Support Leeds United, tha will be telling us next that masochistically you enjoy John Smiths Extra Smooth


If we are going to get into the masochistic nature of supporting shite football teams, I see your Leeds United and raise you a Coventry City fan.


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## Bribie G (30/4/14)

I don't know about nowadays but Tetleys used to get pulled through a tight sparkler and ended up with a creamy head almost like a Guinness. Last time I drank it on handpump was in York about 40 years ago and it's like yesterday.


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## Foster (30/4/14)

Beer Ninja said:


> I don't know what the pub landlord did to serve it like that. I suppose he was the only one keeping his Tetleys properly.
> 
> Looking after it properly & selling it quickly. The sign of a good pub. Tha no's.


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## Foster (30/4/14)

LagerBomb said:


> Bastard - and i mean that in the nicest possible way. Oooh how i wish I was with you. York brewery real ales were one of our highlights of our trip to the UK. I was quite keen for the Ghost Ale while Mrs Slowhand was nuts about the Terrier Bitter. Enjoy you lucky bastard.
> Cheers
> LB


Cheers Lagerbomb


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