# Building a deck



## TheWiggman (5/9/16)

My new house has a roughly 5.4 x 6m outdoor area, most of which is covered. I've bought most of the consumables and am going super-DIY this weekend on a 5 Star deck. Wood's lined up, bank account's ready to take a hit and I'm browsing a few tools to absorb into the cost of the project. I've done plenty of research on span tables, Standards and the like and am confident I've got it 95% right. I'm after some advice or tips from others who have grown a few chest hairs doing one of their own - or even better, if you're a chippie and you feel like parting some knowledge to a fellow brewer.

The easiest and hardest part is the arrangement of the bearers. On every resource, the stirrups hold a post and the post supports the bearers as per below (or in a similar arrangement) -







However, the deck is going to be pretty low (height of 400mm above ground) and I was wondering if I could just go the two bearers, side by side, cradled into the stirrup and bolted through. This way it saves purchasing extra posts and cutting notches in each post. 





Seems to be a lot easier but doesn't seem to be a 'done thing'. Clearly the hardest part of all this is going to be positioning the stirrups in the correct location to start with while waiting for the concrete to set, and I'm wondering if this is the reason.


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## droid (5/9/16)

you know what they say wiggy - a short cut is the longest distance between two points





I've done two different styles:
1) Using a concrete block in the shape of a pyramid which has a cross section cut out in the top for bearers
2) re-stumping using the newer style concrete stumps, bearers and then joists

Bearers can be 1500mm ? or something in span?
Joists have to be 450mm

you'd need alot of stirrups - could be wrong


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## husky (5/9/16)

I did my alfresco using concrete posts and put 1 x 90x45 bearer either side of the steel bar that is central on each post which is a standard method. From memory the 2 x 90x45 bearers spanned 1.5m(also spaced @ 1.5) and then 1 x 90x45 joist spaced @450 cts all F17 structural treated pine.
I can't see how your proposed method is any different except you're using a stirrup instead of a concrete post.
Only pic I got but the two bearers sit on top of the post with an ant cap in between.


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## husky (5/9/16)

There is a regulation for minimum distance to the underside of your bearers so I had to do a lot of digging but concrete stumps were easy. Do them all in one go at night with a laser level and make sure they're all level and that's the hard bit done.


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## TheWiggman (6/9/16)

Agreed husky, except I don't have a laser level. Maybe this could be a necessary tool absorbing into overall cost? Using stumps is essentially the same as using a post except without a stirrup. I think I'll go stirrups up to the bearers and save stuffing around. Will also be a bit neater and keep wood clearer of the ground like you say.
droid, the spacings of the crossmembers vary depending on the size of the wood. I'm using 140 x 45 for the bearers which will span across 5.7m. If using 3 stirrups spaced 1.8m apart, my bearer spacing should be max 1.8m. I can't go bigger than that because I'm limited with height. If increasing bearer spacings up to 2.4m (which I'll need to in one spot) stirrup spacings are max 1.5m.


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## bevan (6/9/16)

You could use a length of clear tube with water in it as a level, cheap option.


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## husky (6/9/16)

A laser level is worth the investment imo. If youre local to SE Vic youre welcome to borrow mine.
I brought one as i extended the house so the cost was more easily absorbed and used often enough to justify.


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## Dave70 (6/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> My new house has a roughly 5.4 x 6m outdoor area, most of which is covered. I've bought most of the consumables and am going super-DIY this weekend on a 5 Star deck. Wood's lined up, bank account's ready to take a hit and I'm browsing a few tools to absorb into the cost of the project. I've done plenty of research on span tables, Standards and the like and am confident I've got it 95% right. I'm after some advice or tips from others who have grown a few chest hairs doing one of their own - or even better, if you're a chippie and you feel like parting some knowledge to a fellow brewer.
> 
> The easiest and hardest part is the arrangement of the bearers. On every resource, the stirrups hold a post and the post supports the bearers as per below (or in a similar arrangement) -
> 
> ...


This style of adjustable pier is popular with the pod kits I sell. Far easier to deal with than the set in concrete type. 
Bolt the base down to the pad. string or lazer level the top the the required height then tek and or bolt into place. About $75 a pop for a 450mm job.


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## Liam_snorkel (6/9/16)

nothing wrong with bearers directly to stirrups. If timber members are within 400mm of ground they should be H5 treated. above that H3 is ok.


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## TheWiggman (6/9/16)

Thanks chaps. Unfortunately I'm on the NSW border husky but I appreciate the offer. I might ask around, surely I know someone who's got one.
That's good and bad news Liam because it'll be 400mm to the top (slab was raised to 400mm due to soil quality). I've only got H3 quoted. Is this a standard or just good ensurance? I'll have to get H5 ordered in specifically and I shudder to think how much it might cost.


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## Liam_snorkel (6/9/16)

in my personal opinion it'll be fine as long as it's not in/on the ground.


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## TheWiggman (6/9/16)

Started digging holes, shit it's actually happening.


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## A.B. (6/9/16)

once you've built it dont forget to maintain it:

https://youtu.be/i6c4Nupnup0


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## Dave70 (7/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> Thanks chaps. Unfortunately I'm on the NSW border husky but I appreciate the offer. I might ask around, surely I know someone who's got one.
> That's good and bad news Liam because it'll be 400mm to the top (slab was raised to 400mm due to soil quality). I've only got H3 quoted. Is this a standard or just good ensurance? I'll have to get H5 ordered in specifically and I shudder to think how much it might cost.


Might be getting a bit late in the day, but have you considered a product like Boxspan? I generally push purlins for mezzanines but this stuff is easier for domestic applications, at least from an aesthetic angle.
None of the fretting that comes with timber. Here's a span table. *Might add, I have no affiliation what so ever with Spantec, just another occasional stream of income*

http://www.spantec.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Boxspan-Residential-Span-Tables.pdf


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## TheWiggman (7/9/16)

That's the go Dave. I'm a metalworker at heart (used to be a welder) and would have gone a steel frame if it weren't for the cost. Screwing boards in would have been a task to, though I likely would have gone a steel subframe with wooden joists. How does the Spantec gear go price-wise?


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## argon (7/9/16)

Laying your bearers straight into the stirrups, whilst perfectly fine structurally, might be a pain in the arse to the get you levels absolute. The idea with the post is to allow you to clamp your bearers level, prior to fixing them in. That is, marking their location, notching them into the stump/post then drilling through bolt holes.

I like the Uni-pier solution above as it allows some tolerance and adjustment. 

Stirrups are notoriously difficult to get to a constant level, especially in wet/setting concrete. You might find that you'll have to use packers on the underside of the bearers prior to fixing them in... never the neatest or best solution IMO.

(Caveat - I'm an Architect... so you can tell me to snotted if you like)


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## Liam_snorkel (7/9/16)

fancy that, an architect thinking about construction details 
hehehe


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## Dave70 (7/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> That's the go Dave. I'm a metalworker at heart (used to be a welder) and would have gone a steel frame if it weren't for the cost. Screwing boards in would have been a task to, though I likely would have gone a steel subframe with wooden joists. How does the Spantec gear go price-wise?


The XB series designed specifically corrosive environments, or the great outdoors, run to about $20 per lineal for 150 x 2.0 mm BMT and about the same for a 200 x 1.6mm. Either one will get you about 3m clear span. Thats about what we sell them for anyway. 
Never fear screwing timber to steel. All ye need is a box of wing teks - and a QUALITY Phillips bit.


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## spog (7/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> My new house has a roughly 5.4 x 6m outdoor area, most of which is covered. I've bought most of the consumables and am going super-DIY this weekend on a 5 Star deck. Wood's lined up, bank account's ready to take a hit and I'm browsing a few tools to absorb into the cost of the project. I've done plenty of research on span tables, Standards and the like and am confident I've got it 95% right. I'm after some advice or tips from others who have grown a few chest hairs doing one of their own - or even better, if you're a chippie and you feel like parting some knowledge to a fellow brewer.
> 
> The easiest and hardest part is the arrangement of the bearers. On every resource, the stirrups hold a post and the post supports the bearers as per below (or in a similar arrangement) -
> 
> ...



IMO pic #1 is the go.
With 450 mm in hieght to play with pic # 1 gives you the best and easiest option to help you get a flat deck or fall for drainage.
Using double bearers helps you as you can use 2 smaller section bearers to give correct support as opposed to a larger sectioned bearer that may hinder the clearance of above ground requirements etc.
Start with the finish point of the top of the deck, mark this then work down allowing for the joist depth,this will give you the position of the "top " of the bearers.
Have you got a straight edge ( a long metal sections maybe ) that you can use to put a spirit level on top of so a more accurate marks over the full width of the deck ?
Use the straight edge on each side to get your reference points then use it again along the face from each side to check how accurate "level" your set out marks are, if it's not long enough use some packing like bricks etc at the mid way point to help get an accurate reading from one side to the other.
Hand pick the bearers and joists your self to get the straight ones or tell the supplier you won't accept anything less.
Check the timber manufacturers web site for the recommended type and class of bolts screws and nails for the timber to be used.
Hope this helps. Cheers...Spog. ( chippie by trade )

Now get decked !


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## TheWiggman (17/9/16)

Ahhhhhhh so now I can be selective with your knowledge spog, good to know 
I got a good start on it today. Unfortunately everyone's sick so I did this all solo and I'm feeling the pain now. My goal today was to get the posts concreted in and even though the pics don't show it I got this done later. Delayed slightly due to my wife bogging the ute with sand in the front yard. For the 4th time. 56 warning...






I started by using the brick edges on the doors and a guide and worked down from there. Began with the ledger anchored in the bricks using Ramset masonry anchors. Got it all bang on level with the spirit level and some stringline then set up the two joists to the awning posts. Put the bearer in position. Some minor adjustment to bearer level and then made the two ledgers for the centre bearer over the concrete. Anchored those down, put the joists back on and then used them. Got them level and strait and used them for the rest of the frame.
Screwed all the posts in temporarily and they're ready for concrete.






You can see below I'm going to extend the deck in front of the door on the right which is otherwise a doozey when heading out with a load of washing. Note the foreman on the right, said "arrrg woof woof" which is dog for "sweet subframe owner". 
Disregard the stubby posts close to the foreman, these are too short so I'll be taking them back for some 200mm jobs which will fit the bill nicely.






spog, I didn't end up with 450mm to play with so it would have been very tight on some of the posts. The bearer between the alfresco posts has 130mm stirrups which worked out to be perfect. Using 75mm would have possibly ended up with the stirrup metal hitting the bearers. The far front stirrups even closer to the earth, but I had to dig these about 600mm because the topsoil was soft, and the stuff under was rock hard.
Anyway I'm wrecked and am struggling to type. On call so have to be able to drive, and I'm got a thirst I wish I could quench. I'll let the concrete set over the next few days. Next week I'll have it all ready for the decking provided my wife sorts her shit out and orders some (that's her only job in this whole project).


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## spog (17/9/16)

On the far front stirrups fill the gap between the back of the bearer and the stirrup outer edge with a block about 150/200 mm long to make up difference and then bung the bolts in,it'll stop the bearer from rolling .
Going by what you've achieved so far I'd say your onto already.
It'll get plenty of use this summer no doubt,good job.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/9/16)

I'm just glad to see you could do it without a laser level.


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## TheWiggman (18/9/16)

I think I know what you mean spog but I'm only using the bearers for lining up the posts at this stage. Once the concrete's set I'll be doubling up and bolting all bearers. Is this what you mean?
Wiggman laser eye beats these fancy machines.

Ed: autocorrect thought spog was spot


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## spog (18/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> I think I know what you mean spog but I'm only using the bearers for lining up the posts at this stage. Once the concrete's set I'll be doubling up and bolting all bearers. Is this what you mean?
> Wiggman laser eye beats these fancy machines.
> Ed: autocorrect thought spog was spot


Yep you got it.


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## Feldon (18/9/16)

My 2 c..

Assuming the deck will be exposed to the weather (ie. no verandah above), on the top surface of the bearers and joists put a coat of oil-based primer and a top coat of any old paint you've got lying around (preferably oil-based as well). If the paint is dark coloured you won't see it after the deck is finished. This covering of paint will add years to the life of the deck.
When decks age the first part to rot will be the top edge of the joists, particularly if you use a nail gun to attach the decking boards. Nail guns can cause small cracks in the joists and trhese cracks will hold tiny puddles of water which starts rot beneath the surface. Better to pre-drill nail holes and hammer nails in by hand (hammer the nails in through a piece of old lino with a hole in it to protect the boards from hammer-strike dents). Sitting water in cracks and even just on top of the joists will eventually cause rot. The fasteners will then get loose and board ends will start poping up causing a trip hazard (and 'ouch!' if you walk bare foot on a raised nail or screw).

Also, when you pour the concrete into the post holes, try and leave a raised cone of concrete going up the stirup rod. The concrete will naturally want to slump down and form a dish-shaped depression around the stirup which will hold water. You really should try and get rain water to drain away from the stirup. You'll then get max life out of the zinc coating.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/9/16)

Dont forget deck maintenance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3A68fJS57Q


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## goomboogo (18/9/16)

Stu, post 13.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/9/16)

goomboogo said:


> Stu, post 13.


Just pointing out how important deck maintenance is


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## Blind Dog (18/9/16)

Looking good.

As Feldon suggests, painting the tops of the joists and bearers is a good idea to slow water damage or you could use the 'protectadeck' pvc stuff, although it's a little exxy. Painting the whole substructure is worth it if you plan on staying long term as it helps protect from water damage, and also from cracking.

Before you attach the boards, think about how you're going to stop pests from getting under the deck as rats, mice and other critters will think it's a great place for a dry nest and it's a bugger to get them out and keep them out once the deck is finished.

To fix the boards on the last deck I built, I used the Camo system of hidden screws, which worked really well and was much quicker and neater than previous attempts (well all 2 of them).

Just my 2c.


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## TheWiggman (19/9/16)

Understood Feldon, I'm tossing up between painting and using the Protectordeck which looks to be a more sturdy option. Unfortunately the paint I have 'lying around' is at the old house in Orange so I'll have to buy something specifically for this. To be honest I might just bite the bullet and get some colour-appropriate paint because I'm spending around $3k on wood, what's another $100 to make it last years longer? I'm planning to screw the decking in using stainless screws.
Already put down the concrete and yes did dome the tops of the posts that will get wet.

I got a few hours on it yesterday and it was a real stuff around with the bearers. I was hoping I could slide the second bearers in but nope, the stirrups wedged them pretty hard and I also discovered that the dimensions of the timber isn't consistent. I ended up having to remove the joists I'd used for levelling which was easier said than done because I'd nailed a framing bracket on the end closest to the house to see how they'd work. They work very well. The nails would _not_ come out with my claw hammer (don't have a nail puller) so it was frustrating. I then chose to bolt in one of the bearers then check the level, which was out by about 4mm on one end. Remove, adjust, re-drill, re-fix. Also working with not-fully-set-concrete I had to be careful how forceful I was.

More salt in the wound was that the 200mm stirrups I got to mount to the concrete ended up being too long. 130mm were too short, next size up too long. Hence I'm going to have to remove one of the bearers which I'd already levelled to notch it out, or otherwise be clever using a circular saw upside down.


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## spog (19/9/16)

Adding to Feldons tip on the concrete cone ( which is correct procedure) around the stirrups bung a bead of silicone around the joint of the post/ concrete to stop any water getting in.
As the concrete dries it'll shrink a little and leave a gap around the stem.
As for coating the tops of the bearers if you don't have paint or it's too exxy you could use diesel or sump oil,but don't get it on any surfaces you want to paint or stain.
The smell will go away as will the smell of the decking stain etc .
I've used the diesel/ oil on jobs for farmers who love slapping that shit on anything that doesn't move.


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## TheWiggman (21/9/16)

I'm a ******* idiot.





Saw it today by eye when finishing the last of the other bearers, and almost immediately knew what I'd done. Can't believe I let it happen. No I have two concreted posts to dig up but what's worse is they were concreted on top of the rainwater pipe. I'm thinking I might have to get a demolition hammer and take out the top 2/3 of the concrete then put 2 new stirrups on top. Holy shit what a stuffaround to what has otherwise been a smooth job.


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## technobabble66 (22/9/16)

Yep, I'm afraid the dog puts forward a strong argument. 
[emoji185]
Commiserations. 

Just think how much you're saving on a gym membership with all this extra work. 
[emoji185]


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## Dave70 (22/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> I'm a ******* idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Told ya to use the Uni Piers..(folds arms, shakes head..)


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## droid (22/9/16)

probably not a bad time to hit the re-set button and look at everything and try to see it all unfolding in your head to the finished product.

We used that corrugated drainage pipe for our exposed deck and dug drainage slopes away from the house between the stumps.
My gaps on the first deck floor were used with nails but if you have a curly bit of wood and clamp it all in tight against your last fixed piece the wood can compress on the nail and the gao is not the same anymore. On the second deck I used 4 or 5mm packing that comes in strips and I used that to gap my second deck which was much more betterer
I also sloped the deck away from the house ever so slightly so if for some reason a heap of water was on it, it would drain away instead of towards the house.

I would say imagine it when it is finished and work your way back and it doesn't hurt to have a second pair of eyes.

Also it is important to take some drop point measurements from walls so that when you span a 3rd of the way across with your decking you can check that you are still square. Your house looks new, both my decks and flooring have been on old houses and they cannot be relied on to be square.

Spanning the deck flooring in a nice staggered way especially around the entrances is important too. You want the entrance points to be your best work.


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## droid (22/9/16)

You can see here at both entrances I kept some full spans for the middle of my entrance points. They were also temporarily fastened to become reference points for making sure everything was square as I went along.

The point of these couple of posts is to say if you have these thoughts in the back of your mind and work backwards there'll be less chance of literally taking backwards steps during the build.

front door



double door entrance from lounge


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## Dave70 (22/9/16)

Technically, you're also supposed to extend that gully (the pipe with the grate on it sticking up next to the downpipe) beyond the deck so it can be accessed if the line chokes. Looks as though its currently charged by the TPR valve coming off the hot water heater, so that would need to be extended also. Or not.
Just to ad to your woes.
You're welcome.


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## TheWiggman (22/9/16)

Certainly have worked backwards Droid but in this case just didn't think and screwed on the wrong side of the wood. The end post is out by 5mm because I measured from the wall to the end of the temporary bearer (which was oversize) and of course measured to what I thought was the 'centre' (i.e. outside) of the bearer at the time making the whole lot tapered by 45mm (wood thickness). Otherwise I was considering widening the walkway by 45mm, put one of the bearer beams on the post to the left of the pic, and then concreting an addition stirrup next to it. Can't though because of the taper.
Technically I could just whack on the joists and be done with it but it's too far out. I'm going to have to dig them both up, my OCD won't allow it to be out. Lord help me if I damage one of the stormwater pipes, as I may well lose my shit entirely.
Point taken Dave. I'm going to screw the deck on so will have the gully easily accessible. It's next to a downpipe anyway so if I made this a 'no step' area or had a lift-able cover it's not going to be intrusive. It's from the evaporative AC.


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## droid (22/9/16)

wiggy is your final deck height the same as your interior floor?


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## TheWiggman (22/9/16)

No, meets up with the top of the bricks along the sliding door base


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## droid (22/9/16)

ah no worries, also when you look at the house from the side where will your joists be positioned around your pillars? if you keep the gaps of your joists even, meaning your screw head lines will be evenly spaced aswell then how are you navigating the pillars and where does the deck extend to? flush with the edge of the pillar?


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## Blind Dog (22/9/16)

I'm assuming your beating yourself up because 2 of the stirrups are too low. Why not just pack them with either wood or metal plates, or a combination, rather then try to dig them up and reset?


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## Dave70 (22/9/16)

Blind Dog said:


> I'm assuming your beating yourself up because 2 of the stirrups are too low. Why not just pack them with either wood or metal plates, or a combination, rather then try to dig them up and reset?


Yep. I've dragged myself under enough houses over time to conclude that bits of fibro packed between the ant cap and bearer must be standard industry practice..


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## TheWiggman (22/9/16)

droid said:


> ah no worries, also when you look at the house from the side where will your joists be positioned around your pillars? if you keep the gaps of your joists even, meaning your screw head lines will be evenly spaced aswell then how are you navigating the pillars and where does the deck extend to? flush with the edge of the pillar?


Joists are running to the pillars and will rest on a ledger anchored to the pillar. They will meet flush with the outer edge. There will be some uneven spacing with the screws but it's not an issue because the pillars are 350mm wide, thus no 'in between' ledger and screws on the edge as they would along any edge. I'll try to space the other joists evenly between the house ensuring I don't exceed 450mm.

Blind Dog, the problem isn't obvious but note that the position of the single bearers to the stirrups. The second stirrup is fixed on the wrong side. It's basically like this, the arrows showing where I took measurements.





As far as being too low, nah they're fine how could I stuff that up? <_< There's supposed to be 5-25mm clearance between the bearer and post anyway to allow for termite inspection.


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## droid (22/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> Joists are running to the pillars and will rest on a ledger anchored to the pillar. They will meet flush with the outer edge. There will be some uneven spacing with the screws but it's not an issue because the pillars are 350mm wide. I'll try to space the other joists evenly between the house ensuring I don't exceed 450mm.
> 
> Blind Dog, the problem isn't obvious but note that the position of the single bearers to the stirrups. The second stirrup is fixed on the wrong side. It's basically like this, the arrows showing where I took measurements.
> 
> ...


Cool. If you are going to have a facia then running them past the outer edge for some overhang will be better but if no facia then not needed.


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## wide eyed and legless (22/9/16)

Cant you cut, extend and weld, how far out of alignment are the saddles?


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## TheWiggman (22/9/16)

Could do but not a done thing with hot dipped galvanised. We intend to be here a long time and I'd rather do it once and properly.


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## TheWiggman (22/9/16)

Easier than I thought.


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## Dave70 (23/9/16)

Ha ha!
When I see shit like that it reminds me how often I have attempted DIY vastly outside my extremely narrow skillset. Followed by multiple trips to the hardware store amidst a blizzard of foul language. 
Its a great way to lean!


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/9/16)

Dave70 said:


> Yep. I've dragged myself under enough houses over time to conclude that bits of fibro packed between the ant cap and bearer must be standard industry practice..


I thought it was mandatory


As the builders say...the different between a room that is square and not is some quad and no-more-gaps


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## TheWiggman (23/9/16)

I found it amusing that at work when I described the stuffup some of the responses were:
"It's only out by 45mm, aren't you being a bit pedantic?"
"Won't it be covered by the boards? It'll be right"
"5mm won't kill you - just dig up one post. Don't be so anal"
"Just cut it and re-weld it"
"Nice one dickhead, hahahaha"
"It's a double bearer yeah? Why don't you just split the bearers and bolt it to one side?"

It's shitty so I'm starting again and getting it right. On a positive the rest of the framework is so level you could play pool on it. Decided not to go for fall just because.


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## Airgead (23/9/16)

Perfect is the enemy of done.


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## Dave70 (23/9/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I thought it was mandatory
> 
> 
> As the builders say...the different between a room that is square and not is some quad and no-more-gaps


I admire Wiggmans resolution to see a job well done. 
But I remember back at TAFE in the roof plumbing module, you had to be able to acrually fabricate various sheet metal and gutter components to more or less push fit tolerances, then soft solder the lot together. It was an actual motor skill transferable to many other things. An elegantly crafted down pipe on a heritage home or church is a thing of beauty. 

Then...everything changed, and gappy joints and in-precise angles were dealt with by the squeeze of the trigger. Guess it got you to the pub sooner..


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## Killer Brew (23/9/16)

I'm getting all handy this weekend and building a sandpit for the little guy and a small deck adjacent. Wish I could be brewing instead. I'm fortunate though that there is an old 2x3m shed slab I can use to build my deck so will just bolt some joists straight into the slab.


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/9/16)

Dave70 said:


> I admire Wiggmans resolution to see a job well done.
> But I remember back at TAFE in the roof plumbing module, you had to be able to acrually fabricate various sheet metal and gutter components to more or less push fit tolerances, then soft solder the lot together. It was an actual motor skill transferable to many other things. An elegantly crafted down pipe on a heritage home or church is a thing of beauty.
> 
> Then...everything changed, and gappy joints and in-precise angles were dealt with by the squeeze of the trigger. Guess it got you to the pub sooner..


Yep. Those hand crafting techniques are no longer taught. I spent the first 3 months of my apprenticeship cutting, drilling and filing blocks of metal to insane tolerences


As for the silicon

I was in Reece a while back and in the showroom the had your run of the mill household pressure pump with a soccer ball size blob of silicon around where pressure switch T's off.. Old mate just kept throwing silicon at it to stop it leaking. God knows how many tunes he went thru It was epic


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## droid (23/9/16)

hey wiggy here's a pic for (to inspire?) your mrs!


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## Yob (23/9/16)

TheWiggman said:


> Could do but not a done thing with hot dipped galvanised. We intend to be here a long time and I'd rather do it once and properly.


Twice


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## Liam_snorkel (23/9/16)

Dave70 said:


> Ha ha!
> When I see shit like that it reminds me how often I have attempted DIY vastly outside my extremely narrow skillset. Followed by multiple trips to the hardware store amidst a blizzard of foul language.
> Its a great way to lean!


the quality of a DIY project is directly proportional to the number of swears. it's science.


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## Feldon (23/9/16)

Cross-bracing - consider installing a bit of cross-bracing on the frame before the boards go on and close everything up.

Even if the frame looks rock solid and is a fairly small deck held together by metal brackets, it might eventually want to slide one way or another (think of a dance party with 20+ throbbing teenagers moving to the beat of some atrocious future hit). Once it shifts even a little it can all get a little loose and boards can start popping up.

Strongest way is to form equilatoral trinagles with the cross-bracing pieces of timber (eg across the corners). But anything is better than nothing. Off-cut timber is good (maybe put a lick of paint on the end grain too). And the cross bracing should be done both vertically and horizontally. For fasteners, through bolts are better than coach bolts; coach bolts are better than screws; and screws are better than nails - and don't use nails.

Also, if you can do it without having to install more posts, think about some double joisting in areas that are going to get some lateral stress (eg where foot-fall happens at a doorway from the house, and areas when people concentrate on a deck such as around the BBQ). If you don't want to buy extra timber for this you can use off-cuts of joist timber to locally strengthen stressed areas. Double joisting can also prevent springiness underfoot in high load areas if the distance between joists is at the max recommended (depending on thickness and type of timber boards being used - pine can be very springy).


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## spog (23/9/16)

droid said:


> hey wiggy here's a pic for (to inspire?) your mrs!


Imagine sitting back with a beer or twelve and watching the better half build a deck... I wish!


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## TheWiggman (24/9/16)

Progress.


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## wide eyed and legless (24/9/16)

Just remember to keep the dog inside when you coat the deck.


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## TheWiggman (26/9/16)

RDO today so in between babysitting kids I'm well on the way. Joists are all in and braced, started on the step at the front (after a lot of thinking and deliberation) and managed to pour the concrete for the front two supports just in time for the rain.




Still some work to do on bracing some joists as I ran out of screws, but not too much effort. Now all I need is some merbau and hours upon hours of drilling and screwing. Oh and painting, but I can't get buy a trick with the rain.


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## TheWiggman (27/1/17)

It's been a long time between drinks on the deck project with much to report.
1. Better half decided (after talking to family members over the course of about 3 minutes) that yes, we should go composite decking. This despite our constant arguing and disagreement with how "fake" it looks and that we'll definitely be able to maintain merbau. She reneged on that for no logical reason for all the reasons I fought for. The trouble is, I'd already allowed for 19mm of timber when the thinnest composite board at 450mm joist spacing is 23mm. Just going to have to deal with a lip at the entrances.
2. I gave her the task of sourcing the board. This delayed everything a few months.
3. She felt guilty and went to the council for a DA. This stung us because I'd already poured the footings and the bloke came out to inspect the footings. I'm still interested in what exactly he would have confirmed.
Long story short, we were given verbal approval to complete it. Here's a shot from a few days ago, I've nearly laid it all since then:




The product we went with was NexGEN composite decking. Interestingly the product we received was Fibreon branded which has different joist spacing recommendations to the NexGEN website. The installation instructions are also BS, which state the shitty hidden clips need to be squeezed together and then screwed from the top using the supplied bit. The supplied bit however is too large for the gap. It also says to NOT screw at an angle, but in my opinion that was the ideal way to do it observing the clip design. I did it anyway and had some spacing issues as I went because the clip would move on the screw - nothing I couldn't address, but has left some larger-than-desired gaps every now and then if you look for them. Reading the Fibreon instructions now however it shows that they should be installed at an angle pulling the clip into the board.
Great.
It cost around $6400 delivered for ~50m2. Not cheap. However, it comes with a 25 year warranty against staining and fading and has excellent resistance to scratching because it's co-extruded (this is me talking, not the salesmen). We got a sample pack of a heap of different products and this was the toughest, along with another brand. I wanted to go Australian made but it didn't offer the same long term benefits and joist spacing of the NexGEN. The other advantage of this stuff is it has two different finishes on each side, so flipping them randomly gives it a more non-uniform and natural appearance. It really does look good once down.
I'm looking forward to some finished shots, but sadly we don't have enough of the edging to go down to the ground. Stuffed that up somehow but I don't really care, I'm happy I've got a surface to walk/sit on that's not dirt.


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## SBOB (27/1/17)

you need council approval for a deck thats only just off the ground?


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## lost at sea (30/1/17)

SBOB said:


> you need council approval for a deck thats only just off the ground?



technically yes, if it changes the footprint of the building you need approval. 

just about to put ours through council, which was a must do as it is approx 2 meters off the ground, and we are using wide span steel beams. 
lucky that we did as it turns out there is a maximum footprint allowance in lake mac council of 50% of block size, with the deck we will be at 49.8%. phew.


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## TheWiggman (30/1/17)

As expected the only comment about the progress was about the damn council. I'll do my best to explain because this bit of legislation has been pissing me off to no end...

In reference to the State Environmental Planning Policy (Exempt and Complying Development Codes) 2008 under part 2, div 1, subdivision 6 clause 2.12 it states -

_2.12 Development standards_
_The standards specified for that development are that the development must:_

_(a) (Repealed)_


_(b) have an area of not more than 25m2, and_


_(c) not cause the total floor area of all such structures on the lot to be more than:_

_(i) for a lot larger than 300m2—15% of the ground floor area of the dwelling on the lot, or_


_(ii) for a lot 300m2 or less—25m2, and..._



Division 1 is for 'General Exempt Developments'. This clause defines developments that do not require a development application. As my deck is around the 40m2, it requires a DA.
Subdivision 6 is for _"The construction or installation of a balcony, deck, patio, pergola, terrace or verandah (whether free standing or attached to the ground floor level of a building, or roofed or unroofed)". _So even though most of my deck is already under a roofed section of the house - clearly stated as 'alfresco' on the building plans - it's irrelevant because the deck is >25m2.

Gotta love bureaucracy.


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## Yob (1/2/17)

+1 on,the composit.. Gets dirty? Gurney.. 

Never need to oil again = win


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## earle (1/2/17)

It is looking good though, despite council frustrations. Bet you enjoyed a few cold ones and admired your work at the end of each day. I love it when a project if mine comes together well, been doing quite a few things in our yard. Have to go and admire it and feel the satisfaction often, usually with a beer in hand.


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## TheWiggman (26/5/17)

Finally!


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/5/17)

All you need now is 8" veranda's around the house


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## Weizguy (28/5/17)

Dave70 said:


> I admire Wiggmans resolution to see a job well done.
> But I remember back at TAFE in the roof plumbing module, you had to be able to acrually fabricate various sheet metal and gutter components to more or less push fit tolerances, then soft solder the lot together. It was an actual motor skill transferable to many other things. An elegantly crafted down pipe on a heritage home or church is a thing of beauty.
> 
> Then...everything changed, and gappy joints and in-precise angles were dealt with by the squeeze of the trigger. Guess it got you to the pub sooner..


Sometimes the wrong tradies are employed for the task. They're all the same, right?
At my place the insurance mob paid an electrician to do some plumbing on my septic tank pump. Note: there was no electrical work performed, but it is an electric pump.
About 3 months later, when I complained about a leak in the plumbing, the insurance took a few days to get back to me and advised that the guy had been back (he lives about just over 50 km away so I doubt he even had a look) and advised the insurance mob that I had backed my car into the pump and caused the damage. It was a leaky joiner, FFS. I told the insurance mob that he was lying and I'd fix it myself.
After the next inevitable flood, Insurance made me chase my own quotes and tradies for the pump repair. Still having trouble finding someone to provide a quote. Blacklisted for calling the dog lecco a liar?



spog said:


> Imagine sitting back with a beer or twelve and watching the better half build a deck... I wish!


After a few beers you should not be handling power tools anyway. Just whack your thumb with a hammer once to confirm that.


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## Zorco (28/5/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> All you need now is 8" veranda's around the house


8 inches...

What is this?!!! A veranda for ants!!?


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