# Baron's Esb



## mb83 (13/3/09)

The word "crap" comes to mind.
I would rather drink VB.

MB


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## matti (13/3/09)

I have never tasted it but this kind of feed back on any beer is wasted on this forum IMHO.
I like VB lol
The reason why this particular beverage didn't agree with your pallet would be much more appreciated.
Cheers


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## /// (13/3/09)

Dont make a habit of tasting crap, just beer, can you expand?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/3/09)

I found Barons beers in generally to be not to style.I know not every body brews to style ! I try. They are kind of watered down styles.Will not be buying any more.Once bitten twice shy.
GB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/3/09)

matti said:


> I have never tasted it but this kind of feed back on any beer is wasted on this forum IMHO.
> I like VB lol
> The reason why this particular beverage didn't agree with your pallet would be much more appreciated.
> Cheers


VB ? You are kidding? :icon_vomit: 
GB


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## matti (13/3/09)

You snob!
:lol:


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/3/09)

matti said:


> You snob!
> :lol:


I use to drink VB when we went fishing on the boats, I thought I was sea sick! No just the VB.
Dont need to go fishing to make me ill. :icon_drunk:
GB The Snob :icon_chickcheers:


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## /// (13/3/09)

Sure VB is for the masses, for whom we feed cake! But are we talking about beer ....

When Rich made the change back to wyeast 1099 with a grist bill of 50% MO or Gp, it was mighty good. Were you expecting a sticky beer with too much crystal as some folks seem to want similar beers to be ..... mind boggles ...


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## geoff_tewierik (13/3/09)

I quite like Baron's ESB, it's something different from the norm.

Suits my palate I suppose.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/3/09)

/// said:


> Sure VB is for the masses, for whom we feed cake! But are we talking about beer ....
> 
> When Rich made the change back to wyeast 1099 with a grist bill of 50% MO or Gp, it was mighty good. Were you expecting a sticky beer with too much crystal as some folks seem to want similar beers to be ..... mind boggles ...


I will eat cake! But Vb or Barons.......? F... it I will drink water.Actually I will take Barons first then drink water.Mans got to do what a mans got to do, Hydrate.Fishing is serious business.Would you have coral trout with either? :chug: 
GB


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## /// (13/3/09)

Well, I am a man of flathead tails pan fried or deep fried if I take real fancy. Something to do with holidays at Port Stephens .... many moons ago

The ESB i thought sound, some others not my fancy, for what that means? But, it is far from VB, TED, Heiniken or other such poisons. Common sense must rule the day...


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## Online Brewing Supplies (13/3/09)

Flaties, use to catch them in the river here many years ago ! /// you forgot Aussie Grolsh (sp?)! If you cant spell it dont drink it...One bottle of that and they float to the surface.
GB


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## dr K (13/3/09)

I have no problems with most of the Baron's Beers.
The ESB is an excellent beer, the Lager is a bit,well Aussie Lager, the Wattle Seed Superior is an excellent beer, right up there in this humble guys eyes.
I note that the protaganist of this thread has not replied yet, but he or she is claerly a VB drinker (don't knock 'em, 500 billion blowflies are not likely to be wrong).
If mb83 prefers VB to Baron's ESB then that is his or her choice, she or he does not have to justify that choice but should explain in some more detail exactly what it is about Baron's ESB that makes it crap, is it the malt balance, is it overuse of hops compared to VB or any of a thousand other things, I am not knocking VB, I am not calling it crap, I just choose to drink other beers.

K


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## winkle (13/3/09)

Welllllll, not affiliated but this stuff is NOT VB. I'll dig out my tasting notes but from memory it was chewy, caramel malt dominated but reasonably clean if a bit sticky on the palate. It had a honeyed note that is through- out the range (mostly caused by using whitbread teast IMHO). No metallic notes, no wet dog, no cardboard no DMS.
Explain to me how that equals VB?????????

Edit: too slow


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## Bizier (13/3/09)

I grilled one of the so called "brave boys" not so long ago on meeting by chance, as to why the hell I can't get this at more places.

I think that while this is not an ESB, it is a fine malty beer. I drink this as my go-to six pack to take to a family function etc. I know that the recipe has evolved, but I have just recently come to realise how good the ester profile of the yeast is, there is some soft fruity notes in there that I love, and at a price you can't beat. I saw it today for under $13 a six at DMs in Penrith.

If you think this tastes like VB, you seem to be tasting it at the wrong end of your digestive system.


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## winkle (14/3/09)

Bizier said:


> I grilled one of the so called "brave boys" not so long ago on meeting by chance, as to why the hell I can't get this at more places.
> 
> I think that while this is not an ESB, it is a fine malty beer. I drink this as my go-to six pack to take to a family function etc. I know that the recipe has evolved, but I have just recently come to realise how good the ester profile of the yeast is, there is some soft fruity notes in there that I love, and at a price you can't beat. I saw it today for under $13 a six at DMs in Penrith.
> 
> If you think this tastes like VB, you seem to be tasting it at the wrong end of your digestive system.


Bravo, my "point" exactly :icon_cheers:

Edit: more of a best bitter than a ESB but WTF.


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## Barry (14/3/09)

I like their black, a very good Scottish ale in my opinion. Their ESB is also good to my taste.


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## PostModern (14/3/09)

I've not seen the ESB around here, but would try it if I did. I agree that their naming doesn't always match the style in the bottles, but that's marketing for you. Really like their specialties at the Local Taphouse at the moment. I wish more breweries would step outside the pale lager and pale ale market.


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## Bizier (14/3/09)

Barry said:


> I like their black, a very good Scottish ale in my opinion. Their ESB is also good to my taste.



They have a black? I have never seen it, nor is it listed on their website. Please tell us more.

And re: the classification, I think the ESB is a little syrupy and the hops are not Englishy enough to call it an ESB or a Special Bitter. I don't know what to call it though.

I challege anyone to find an easily available malty drop that tastes like real beer at this price point.


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## Bizier (14/3/09)

PostModern said:


> I wish more breweries would step outside the pale lager and pale ale market.



Amen brother.


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## rclemmett (14/3/09)

I like the ESB and I think its a good example of a best bitter. It certainly isn't a beer to be drank on a hot day though, unlike a super cold VB. Not that I would know.  

This thread has got me thinking though..... I bought a six pack of Barons Pale the other day and didn't enjoy it much at all. I found the bitterness to be very astringet and there was another flavour that I can't quite put my finger on... I have tasted it in a few of my brews that are getting beyond their drinking window. The beers were within their best before date. Barons, as far as I'm aware contract their brewing, and may not have the best quality control. Perhaps the ESB this person tried were a dud, like the Pale I had.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (14/3/09)

PostModern said:


> I've not seen the ESB around here, but would try it if I did. I agree that their naming doesn't always match the style in the bottles, but that's marketing for you. Really like their specialties at the Local Taphouse at the moment. I wish more breweries would step outside the pale lager and pale ale market.


 Slightly OT.I think you have just hit the nail on the head for me.Why should breweries call their beers such and such a style when its not.Example 99% of English IPA.s.To me its like going to buy a Holden and coming out with a Ford, I like Fords dont get me wrong but I wanted a Holden.This piss's me off when Im paying good money for my choice.
I have noticed in some pro brewing comps one breweries (Ale) may be entered in three different styles, do they actually know what style they have brewed? I brew to style for comps but free range after that.Opinions? 
GB


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## jayse (14/3/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Why should breweries call their beers such and such a style when its not.Example 99% of English IPA.s.



When you think about it you could come to the conclusion that the style guidelines are the ones that are wrong. If 99% of modern english IPAs' are ordinary bitters then................................yeah well umm!


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## Bizier (14/3/09)

I agree Gryphon,

But as a customer, it is extremely pleasant though when you ask for an English IPA, and you get one that is bang-on to style. I was impressed when I got one from the Wig and Pen a few weeks ago, had a grin from ear to ear. That is kind of why I like the pot luck of obscure Belgians; they don't build up a preconceived picture of how the beer should be. It just is.


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## rclemmett (14/3/09)

Bizier said:


> I agree Gryphon,
> 
> But as a customer, it is extremely pleasant though when you ask for an English IPA, and you get one that is bang-on to style. I was impressed when I got one from the Wig and Pen a few weeks ago, had a grin from ear to ear. That is kind of why I like the pot luck of obscure Belgians; they don't build up a preconceived picture of how the beer should be. It just is.



How good is the Wig and Pen :icon_drool2:


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## jayse (14/3/09)

:icon_offtopic: 


Rob2 said:


> How good is the Wig and Pen :icon_drool2:



one of my faves, although the IPA when I was there a couple years ago had too much of a alcohol note for my liking.


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## PostModern (15/3/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Slightly OT.I think you have just hit the nail on the head for me.Why should breweries call their beers such and such a style when its not.Example 99% of English IPA.s.To me its like going to buy a Holden and coming out with a Ford, I like Fords dont get me wrong but I wanted a Holden.This piss's me off when Im paying good money for my choice.
> I have noticed in some pro brewing comps one breweries (Ale) may be entered in three different styles, do they actually know what style they have brewed? I brew to style for comps but free range after that.Opinions?
> GB



I'm all for breweries just giving their beers names, rather than styles, unless the beer is brewed strictly to style. But as jayse said, if 99% of breweries make an IPA <5% and 30 IBUs, who are the BJCP to say IPAs are something different? They should reflect commercial styles, not the other way. However, I completely agree with what you say, the label should give you an idea of what's inside the bottle.

I was having a similar conversation with Richard from Barons at the Sydney Taphouse launch of their specialties. "How can you call it a Bock when it has honey in it and couldn't be called a Bock in the place where Bocks originated?" Richard responded by telling me about an old text he once read complaining of that "wicked and pernicious weed" that would destroy the goodness of ale in all of Britain. The weed, of course, is called hops. So his, and I presume other brewers', perception of the issue is they brew what they want, call it what they see fit, and offer it to the market. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I can see his point, but don't necessarily agree with it. I rather like what people like Baltika do, just the brewery and beer number, so it doesn't matter if it doesn't hit some set of guidelines right in the middle, it's just "3", or "7" or whatever. But then, we get into the degrees plato, or single, dubbel, tripel thing.



Bizier said:


> That is kind of why I like the pot luck of obscure Belgians; they don't build up a preconceived picture of how the beer should be. It just is.



Yeah. Be nice if all brews were like that. No false expectation from the label. I think I'll start brewing like that. Just colour, bitterness, flavour, not "97% conformity to robust porter" or whatever. No panicking about whether ingredient A belongs in beer B, just brew what works. In fact, now that I think about it, it's what I already do


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## KingPython (15/3/09)

Oddly enough I had my first one a few weeks expired and it was pretty good not a bitter per say but a good malt profile, the next one within the expiry date was average though.


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## gibbocore (15/3/09)

everyone who i have encountered that has bagged their ESB has drunk it from a bottle, pour it into a glass ffs.


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## jimi (15/3/09)

If we want a 'better drinking' society we need a better informed drinking society!! 
Breweries that label their beer one thing and present another annoy me greatly. How many times have we all been let down by something that was labelled IPA!!
I'm not suggesting breweries need to stick to a style guideline, by all means they can go their own route (like many of us), but give us a realiable idea of what we will get for our money. What's wrong with calling your beer a cross between styles A and B, or a less or more bitter version of blah blah, or simply state that it is hopped with an untraditional blend of hops.
Surely the advertisers can put a good spin on the truth of your beer IF it's a good beer.

Back on the topic of Barons - Only tried their ESB once a year or so back and I thought at the time it lacked a bit of body and malt background, I assume this was before they went to 50%MO or GP. It was still OK. Their blackwattle is excellent and I love the wattle seed additions. I find it ironic that breweries can be up front about their experimentally different brews (ala the wattle) but not want to admit to a slight departure in brewing style (ala their ESB).


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## buttersd70 (15/3/09)

PostModern said:


> who are the BJCP to say IPAs are something different? They should reflect commercial styles, not the other way.



Warn the neighbouring villages! Get your pitchforks and torches! Burn the heretic! AAAGGGH!.

:lol: 

I completely agree, so save me a spot on the stake. I'll even bring the matches.


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## Kai (15/3/09)

dr K said:


> I have no problems with most of the Baron's Beers.
> The ESB is an excellent beer, the Lager is a bit,well Aussie Lager, the Wattle Seed Superior is an excellent beer, right up there in this humble guys eyes.



Agreed, I've had the wattle and didn't mind it at all.


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## bconnery (15/3/09)

PostModern said:


> if 99% of breweries make an IPA <5% and 30 IBUs, who are the BJCP to say IPAs are something different? They should reflect commercial styles, not the other way.


THe first thing I would say to this is that the likes of Worthingtons and Meantime IPA are enough to me to tell the 99% to get stuffed and that IPAs should be >5% and over 30 IBU...

What about pils or pilsener then? There are a truckload of beers out there that refer to themselves as pilsener or pils but I'd rather the guidelines reflected jever or urquell for mine. 

Anyways, the BJCP debate can, and has, taken whole threads and I don't believe it to be the be all and end all, but I'd agree that I'd like the beer style to have some meaning around what you are getting. 
Even the wide 'styles' of belgians give you some loose idea of what to expect...

I also like the Barons wattleseed. The lemon myrtle wit wasn't as flavoured as I'd hoped but then again lemon myrtle can get a little medicinal. I had a lemon myrtle liquer once, it was little like drinking alcoholic eucalyptus drops, great though 

What was the topic again? Ah yes, the ESB. 
I didn't mind it when I tasted it but it has been a while so who knows where it has gone since.


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## Bizier (15/3/09)

bconnery said:


> I had a lemon myrtle liquer once, it was little like drinking alcoholic eucalyptus drops, great though



Was that by chance Jaggards?

I am curious to know the difference between Wattle and Wattle Superior.


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## bconnery (15/3/09)

Bizier said:


> Was that by chance Jaggards?
> 
> I am curious to know the difference between Wattle and Wattle Superior.


Well come on, one Wattle is clearly.... better  

I don't know about Jaggards, it was the distillery on Mt Tamborine, I don't know their name...


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