# Improving The Coopers Stout / Dark Toucan



## ploto (25/4/11)

I know there are quite a number of stout threads active atm and I have been through them all plus many old ones, not to mention the various AG recipes in the database, but in sifting through so many of them I think I have just managed to confuse myself even more. I have tried a few of the basic combos that a mate has brewed - stout + dark malt extract, stout + dark ale, stout + dme & maltrose. Some have been good, others average, but even the better ones seem to be lacking in depth of flavour. I know they do improve with age but even after a few months I can't say I've been overly impressed with any of them.

I want to give it a go myself but I would like to add something more to lift it above the regular. I know that using kits will always have limitations, but given how much better my recent kit ales have been with the addition of steeped grains & short boils I am sure similar improvements can be made to the stout kit.

As well as one can each of the Coopers Stout and Dark Ale, I have the following on hand that I feel would be most suitable:
500g dry oat malt extract
Pale Chocolate & Carafa II grains
East Kent Goldings, Styrian Goldings, Pacific Gem

For yeast I have the Craftbrewer English mix which I would like to use and I am aiming for a 25l brew of around 5 - 6% which I should get if I use all 500g of the dry malt extract.

My first question is how much of the dark grains to use. 250g of the pale choc seems to be a fairly standard amount, but what about the carafa II? I've seen amounts ranging from 100g to 400g in some recipes, but what sort of ratio would best compliment the pale choc, if any at all? I was thinking around 150 - 200g but would be happy to skip if it conflicts with the pale choc.

As for hops there seems to be two camps, either none at all or about 30g at the 20 - 5 min mark. I don't want to add too much that would muddle the brew, but I though a bit of EKG might add a nice earthy taste/aroma. I've seen the Pacific Gem used in bconnery's FES recipe but have not been able to find out much else about it. The cans should have plenty of bitterness and judging from the popularity of the stout/dark toucan there doesn't seem to be any complaints with it, so would adding hops at 20min be too much? I was thinking along the lines of 10g @ 20 & 20g @ 10.

Sorry for being long winded but not having had any experience with the dark grains or hops in a stout I am not sure if I am being too ambitious.

cheers,
ploto


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## zabond (26/4/11)

My toucan 
coops dark & stout
200g pale choc
100g carafa t2
150g carapils[for head]
200g LDME
150g DDME
all grains steeped 45min @ 65*c strained then boiled 15min
SAF04
21ltrs 
20g EKG dry hopped after 5 days in ferm[aroma/flavour]-keged @ 14 days after crash chill @ 1*c - 4days
og 068-fg019 ac%7.1
:chug: :wacko:


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## ploto (27/4/11)

Thanks Zabond. Does that much carafa 2 have a strong effect and would more be too much? And does dry hopping give much taste in a stout?

cheers.


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## zabond (28/4/11)

carafa t2[roasted barley] has about 1100 ebc so usually any more than 5-10% will give a very black beer and can add a bit to much choc sweetness the late EKG dry hopping is more for aroma[floraly]you could use STYRIAN which give pine/citrus aroma yuo dont want to add any more bitterness as the two cans are enough
Coopers stout=39 IBU
dark ale = 32 IB
So mine all up came out bout IBU=77 EBC-138 a very dark/ white creamy head/on the bitter side Guineesey Stout @6.2% AC [sorry bout 7.1% in first post was mixing up with head banger winter stout recipie]


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## petesbrew (28/4/11)

You could always add in a lager/draught kit and make it an imperial stout.
This has been mentioned a few times in the beer & brewer mag (& on the Coopers site I think)

I made this variation last year to use up some out of date Belgian kits.
There's a shitload of extras in there, but it's developing into a kickarse beer.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...amp;recipe=1131


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## ploto (28/4/11)

Pete, you're scaring me. h34r: But I am intrigued... 

Zabond thanks for the tips. I think I'll go with the EKG for this one. The choc sweetness is not something I've yet experienced in a beer but the idea doesn't put me off, not sure if it should. The missus likes the sound of it. Maybe a short boil of the hops might balance it? It's going to be a 25l batch so I'm hoping the mix of flavours won't be too tight. Anyway this is what I'm looking at putting down on the weekend.

1 x Coopers Stout
1 x Coopers Dark Ale
500g dry oat malt extract
250g pale choclolate malt
200g Carafa II
30g EKG 10g @ 20, 20g @ 10
Craftberwer English ale yeast, 18C


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## timryan (28/4/11)

Gday guys.. So ive got a shitload of cascade hops pellets and ive just put down a toucan

1 x Coopers Dark Ale
1 x Coopers Stout
500grams CSR Brown Sugar
2 x Coopers Yeast

What im wanting to know is the cascade the wrong flavour to add? i know you can go for an american style and cascade is an american hop 
but just not sure about it with the stout... Has this been tried before?


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## melvy (25/5/11)

ploto said:


> Pete, you're scaring me. h34r: But I am intrigued...
> 
> Zabond thanks for the tips. I think I'll go with the EKG for this one. The choc sweetness is not something I've yet experienced in a beer but the idea doesn't put me off, not sure if it should. The missus likes the sound of it. Maybe a short boil of the hops might balance it? It's going to be a 25l batch so I'm hoping the mix of flavours won't be too tight. Anyway this is what I'm looking at putting down on the weekend.
> 
> ...




Hi ploto,

How'd you go with this recipe? I'm thinking of doing something similar.

Cheers
Melvy


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## ploto (25/5/11)

It went well Melvy, I bottled it last weekend and it was tasting great. Ended up going with the following recipe.

1 x 1.7kg Coopers Stout
1 x 1.7kg Coopers Dark Ale
500g dry oat malt extract
300g pale choclolate malt
200g carafa 2
30g EKG: 10g @ 15, 20g @ 5
Craftberwer English Ale yeast
25l

OG 1.056, FG 1.018

In primary for 21 days at 18 - 19C. Bottled into PET bottles with 1 carb drop each, plus a couple of 500ml swing tops to hide away.

I'm looking forward to trying the first bottle in a couple of weeks, should be a good one I hope.

cheers.


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## melvy (26/5/11)

Nice. I'm going to try the following, 

Coopers Irish Stout 1.7kg
Coopers dark malt extract 1.5kg
Brown sugar 500g (not sure on this yet) 
Oat malt extract 500g 
Pale choc malt 250g 
EKG hops as per your schedule. 
S04

Interested in seeing how the oat malt goes. 

Also going to try the same recipe after but swap the tins for stout/dark toucan. 

Stouty goodness.


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## TmC (26/5/11)

You probably already know this but Coopers Dark malt isn't hopped so you may or may not want to hop a bit more to get the desired bitterness, that being said i made a Dark Ale with Coopers Unhopped can with no extra bitterness and it was fine.


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## melvy (26/5/11)

Thanks TmC, 

Any suggestions on a hop schedule? I've done a stout/dark toucan but haven't tasted it yet. 

I've got EKG, Cascade and Centennial but realise the American hops probably won't go with this one 

Cheers 
Melvy


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## TmC (26/5/11)

I like to use Golding or Fuggles in my dark beers but i know that some people do use Cascade and Centennial in dark beers, sometimes if i feel like experimenting i split my batch up into 5-10L containers for both secondary and dry hopping. I recently put centennial in one of my darks, have yet to try it though.


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## MetalDan (27/11/13)

I'm about to put another Coopers toucan on, as the last one I did was lovely but the stocks have been depleted, the recipe was:

1 x Coopers Dark Ale
1 x Coopers Stout
500grams CSR Brown Sugar
2 x Coopers Yeast

The only thing I didn't like was the lack of head (although maybe this was just me priming incorrectly, used carb drops for these but now bulk prime with Dextrose). Anyway, I was contemplating throwing in some roasted quakers oats, mainly to try and add some more creamyness and fix the head.

Any comments if people think this is a good idea or not? Haven't used oats before so not too sure. My plan was to steep them and then throw the water into the fermenter with the other ingredients.


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## slash22000 (27/11/13)

> Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:49 AM


...



> 26 May 2011


.....



> 2011


....... :huh:

For real though, oats need to be mashed, you can't just chuck them in. If you want to improve head retention consider steeping some Carapils and using all malt instead of brown sugar.


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## Alex.Tas (27/11/13)

I read in this recipe: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/55672-pimp-my-stout-kit/?hl=%2Boatmeal+%2Bstout
That you can 'mash' the oats in the oven at 180 for 25 minutes. is this a bad idea? i realise the temperature in the oven exceeds the normal mash temperatures if your doing an AG batch. just wondered if this method might work.
I don't really see an issue with digging up this thread, its still on topic and keeps relevant information in the same place.


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## WWDWD (28/11/13)

slash22000 said:


> ...
> 
> 
> .....
> ...


Ya start a new thread and you get told to use the search function. Can't win haha.

Anyways, I made this a week or so ago. Probably bottle tonight and let it do it's thing for a good few months.

1 x Coopers Dark Ale
1 x Coopers Stout
500grams CSR Brown Sugar
2 x Coopers Yeast

Would I use one carb drop per long neck?


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## MetalDan (29/11/13)

Yer I figured everything in this thread was still relevant, nothing out of date so tacked my comment onto the end..

When I bottled mine a few months back I used carb drops, I was just using 330ml bottles back then and 1 drop per bottle was enough carb, but my head retention sucked. Other people who have used this recipe say good head so will need to try again and see. I'd possibly go 2 depending on the size of the longnecks and how carbed you like your stout


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