# Stealing Yeast From Bottle Conditioned Beers



## piraterum (15/6/06)

Hi all,

I'm having a go at making yeast starters from commerically available bottle conditioned beers. I've successfully revived yeast from Coopers Pale Ale and Coopers Sparkling Ale. I work in a micro lab so i've done a little bit of experimenting with yeast storage after they are recovered. The rumours are true, they do store remarkably well in distilled water and are easily recovered again. 

Was wondering what other beers people have recovered yeast from and used in their own brewing?
I'd like to maybe try a belgium beer? Any suggestions?

cheers,

martin


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## peas_and_corn (15/6/06)

Here's a useful thread. It has a lot of info about culturing yeast from a bottle.

Good luck in the venture,

Dave


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## Zwickel (15/6/06)

Hi piraterum,



piraterum said:


> .... they do store remarkably well in distilled water and are easily recovered again.


sorry mate, but that wouldnt be a good idea!
the osmotic pressure will certainly destroy the yeast cells, thats way never put yeast cells in destilled water.
Rather to take physiolocigal saline solution.

Cheers :beer:


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## piraterum (15/6/06)

Zwickel said:


> Hi piraterum,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hmmm interesting..... I've heard reasoning for both schools of thought, some people use physiolocigal saline and others use distilled water. 
Out of curiosity I revived some yeasts from a bottle conditioned beer by adding it to a peptone solution. From this peptone solution I transfered 1ml to a testtube of distilled water and 1ml to a testube of physiolocigal saline solution. I then streaked out a loopful onto agar from each tube each week to see if there was any significant difference in recovery and yeast health. After three months storage I can't see any signficant difference between the two. Still early days tho, have to experiment some more.


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## piraterum (16/6/06)

Here's a little background about taking yeast from commericial beers and some considerations if anyone is interested


http://byo.com/feature/810.html


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## Zwickel (16/6/06)

piraterum said:


> Out of curiosity I revived some yeasts from a bottle conditioned beer by adding it to a peptone solution. From this peptone solution I transfered 1ml to a testtube of distilled water...


it depends on the dilution and also of the purity of the destilled water, means depends on the osmotic pressure.

Have you ever seen what happens if its raining on a cherry tree?
The rainwater outside the cherry has a lower sugar concentration as the cherry inside. Because of the osmotic pressure, the water passes the membrane to the inside and the cherry will burst.
Thats way farmers cover theire cherry trees when its raining.
That will happen to many ripe fruits.

The same also will happen with yeast cells. In extreme cases, if you put pure cells in pure destilled water, the cells will be blowen within a very short time.


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## pint of lager (16/6/06)

Yeast stores well under sterile water but not distilled water. My samples are at least two years old and they are working fine. The water is plain tap water as this does have trace elements in it. The water is placed into test tubes and pressure cooked to make it sterile. I follow the method as outlined by Graham Sanders.

Just watch what beer you are trying to make starters from. Many breweries filter the primary fermentation yeast out and use a different bottling yeast. The bottling yeast is selected for its ability to flocculate out and leave a tight sediment in the bottom of the bottle.

Coopers bottles are great to make starters from. The bottling yeast is the same as primary, it is easy to get a hold of and makes good beer.


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## Yorkee (16/6/06)

Whooah,

Heavy stuff!! I am about to try the Coopers Pale Ale yeast deposit with 2 concentrate cans of lager as per a thread I read somewhere (no sugars). Just to see how it goes basically. But I can see that the more you delve the more there is to know  

___________________________

Supp up wer'e moving on!!


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (16/6/06)

pint of lager said:


> Just watch what beer you are trying to make starters from. Many breweries filter the primary fermentation yeast out and use a different bottling yeast. The bottling yeast is selected for its ability to flocculate out and leave a tight sediment in the bottom of the bottle.



Or _not_ sediment if the style calls for that (eg wit). Good point though.

My understanding was that Coopers pale used a hazing agent (biohaze) rather than yeast and beers of a years or so ago certainly tasted that way. Recent pales and sparkles are tasting like Coopers of old and perhaps they've gone back to live yeast in bottle.... who knows. They _are_ damned tasty at the moment.


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## Mr Bond (16/6/06)

Yorkee said:


> Whooah,
> 
> Heavy stuff!! I am about to try the Coopers Pale Ale yeast deposit with 2 concentrate cans of lager as per a thread I read somewhere (no sugars). Just to see how it goes basically. But I can see that the more you delve the more there is to know
> 
> ...



2 can brews work fine.
But as an experimenter in this area many moons ago I have a couple of points to consider.

a coopers lager can of goo(plus Kilo) is a 22 IBU proposition @ 22 litres.
2 cans made to a volume of 22 litres will be 44 IBU.
This ibu is not excessive in an APA ,but Maybe a little harsh from an ISO HOP perspective in a pale beer.
I would crack and steep 150/200 gms of crystal grain in 2/3 litres of water.Strain and boil for 15 mins with 25 gms of fuggles or goldings hop pellets,and add to your cans of goo,and then pitch with your coopers reculture for a more british style bitter.The crystal will add a little more of a sweet/malty element to balance the bitterness.Alternatively you could use cascade or amarillo for an american style.


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## Voosher (17/6/06)

The longer you store yeast the more careful you have to be.
The resilience of the various yeasts is important as well.
All I ever do... so far... is to wash the yeast at the end of primary with cooled boiled water; wash it twice as per the Wyeast site instructions; and store it in a sterilised plastic container under the water/wort mix. Theoretically the little nutrient provided by this method aids balance in storage. Practically it works a treat for me at least up to 12 months. I suggest if you wish to go beyond that you'd be advised to adopt some of the more formal yeast farming procedures well documented elsewhere on this site.
My experience with reculturing commercial yeast is limited, though with tremendous success, to Coopers. That yeast is healthy coming out of the bottle but I don't recommend further amateur storage; it degrades quickly.
By the way... I am looking for a tight-arsed Weihenstephan if anyone knows a good bottled source.


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## Zwickel (17/6/06)

Hi Brewmates,

harvesting yeast from commercial beers is a hobby by itself 

Some breweries are bottling theire beer with original, viable yeast, others dont do.
Some breweries add low fermenting yeast into the bottles, while the beer is basically high fermented.
Some breweries are heating up theire beer to kill the yeast before it will be sold.

Im pretty sure, beers from Germany like Weihenstephan, what are designated to be sold overseas, dont contain viable yeast.

Here I can give you an example of German beers they contain viable yeast:

Schneider-Weisse (Kelheim),
Maisel Hefeweizen (Bayreuth),
Kuchlbauer Weisse (Abensberg),
Ritter St. Georgen-Brauerei (Nennslingen);
Gutmann Hefeweizen (Titting),
Pinkus-Hefeweizen (Pinkus Mller, Mnster),
Prinzregent-Luitpold-Weizen (Schlossbrauerei Kaltenberg)
Appenzeller Hefeweizen (Schweiz).
Tucher Hefeweizen (Nrnberg).

And here a list of beers you *cant* harvest the yeast:

Erdinger,
Schfferhofer,
Oettinger,
Franziskaner,
Andechser,
Pyraser.

Cheers


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## Yorkee (17/6/06)

2 can brews work fine.
But as an experimenter in this area many moons ago I have a couple of points to consider.

a coopers lager can of goo(plus Kilo) is a 22 IBU proposition @ 22 litres.
2 cans made to a volume of 22 litres will be 44 IBU.
This ibu is not excessive in an APA ,but Maybe a little harsh from an ISO HOP perspective in a pale beer.
I would crack and steep 150/200 gms of crystal grain in 2/3 litres of water.Strain and boil for 15 mins with 25 gms of fuggles or goldings hop pellets,and add to your cans of goo,and then pitch with your coopers reculture for a more british style bitter.The crystal will add a little more of a sweet/malty element to balance the bitterness.Alternatively you could use cascade or amarillo for an american style.
[/quote]


Thanks Book, Maybe 2 cans of APA might be a safer way then?

_____________________________________________________________________________
Supp up were moving on!!


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## pint of lager (17/6/06)

Thanks Zwickel for that list.

Do those beers contain the same yeast for primary and bottling?


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## Zwickel (17/6/06)

pint of lager said:


> Do those beers contain the same yeast for primary and bottling?


Yes it does.

very popular here are the yeasts from "Schneider Weisse" and "Maisels Weisse", makes absolutely great beers.

Cheers


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## Whistlingjack (22/6/06)

As we discussed, Zwickel, I'm going to try to get the yeast from Paulaner Hefeweizen, which I brought home with me.

Just thought I'd post here to see if anyone has any info on whether the yeast is viable. Otherwise I'll "suck it and see"


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## jagerbrau (22/6/06)

i think paulaner bottle using a lager yeast. most do other than i think schnider weisse.


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## Stuster (22/6/06)

Mr.Whistle

This is a list of salvaged yeasts that may be of help to you. It seems Paulaner does use the same strain for bottling. Interesting to see how it works for you. Luck.  

View attachment Yeasts_from_Bottle_Conditioned_Beers.htm


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## Murray (22/6/06)

Thanks Zwickel and Stuster, those lists should save quite a few people from having to suck and see.


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## Whistlingjack (22/6/06)

Thanks for that, Stuster.

Of all the hefeweizens I could have taken home, I chose that one (at the last minute). Then I had that horrible thought...


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## Zwickel (22/6/06)

Hi WJ,

I hope it will work 

Please let us know, if you were successful.

Cheers :beer:


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## Whistlingjack (22/6/06)

Sure will, Zwickel.

I'll have to get you to post me another one if it doesn't


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## Zwickel (22/6/06)

unfortunately, the Australian customs doesnt allow to bring in biological material, otherwise I had given you yeast on agar.

...but my next hollidays, Ill bring in some bottled homebrew, nice labelled, with a huge amount of yeast slurry at bottom


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## Whistlingjack (14/9/06)

Well, the Paulaner failed, but I can add another German beer to the above list that worked.

Hofbru Mnchner Kindl Hefe Weizen (Mnchen)


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