# Kingys herms Build Thread



## Kingy (16/7/14)

due to having 2 kids in the last 2 years I need to cut my brew day times down so looking for an electric semi automated herms system where I don't need to sit next to it the whole time.

Im on the quest to build a herms. I already have a 50 litre and an 80litre aluminium pot which I use for single and double batches and my plans are to build a heat exchanger which can service either one as required.

Ive had 3 vessel setups in the past but lately ive been doing biab (gas powered) and no chilling as it suits me better, But now i want more control over my mash temps instead of starting the burner and stirring the mash on and off over the course of the mash.

My plan is to get the single batch 50litre pot sorted first with the hx and just use the bigger 80litre when doing doubles.

still chasing some gear but
My heat exchanger is going to be something along these lines.
Fire extinguisher with top cut off.(hoping there made of stainless and weldable otherwise ill have to change plans,)
Weld a 5star 2400watt element up through the bottom of the exinguisher then coil 1/2 inch copper from top to bottom then back up so the inlet and outlet are at upper sides of the unit. (element up through in middle of coil)

march pump between the pot and extinguisher. The pot will just be using a grain bag that can be removed after the mash and then boil in the pot.

50litre and 80litre pot will also have a single weldess type 5star element in each to help with getting to mash in temps up quicker.

silicon hoses and t's and temp controller etc.

basically starting this thread for feedback and help along the way,cheers.


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## jaypes (16/7/14)

I feel your pain, I have 3 kids under 4 at present

My brew day is only about 4 hours with a 1v 

I was also looking for a herms I could build, found the herms coil from online brewing supplies great value

Just need the time to build It!


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## dmac80 (16/7/14)

Kingy,
I automated my brewery (braumeister style) and it allowed me to brew more often whilst still being able to look after the kids, I can't recommend it enough!
I set mine up to pre heat after a time delay so it can be ready for mash in in the morning and it will hold mash out temp whilst recirculating until I get to it to remove the malt and start the boil.
It also has an embedded web page to tell me what mash step and step time it is up to (brewery is in the shed).
Cheers


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## dmac80 (16/7/14)

Meant to edit, not quote myself. Stupid phone.


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## neal32 (17/7/14)

I got a 4v HERMS and yeah you can walk away from it and do other stuff, but I always keep an eye on it. What if the grain bed gets stuck, a hose falls off. Murphys law and all that.

If your main goal is a quick brewday, knocking out a lot of finished beer, you really can't go past BIAB with a single infusion mash. Also you can walk away from a passive, static mash as well with no consequence. Chuck a sleeping bag or 3 over the vessel, come back in 60-90 minutes.

So if you want HERMS, go HERMS, but it's not, under ANY circumstances going to be as quick or easy as BIAB.


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## Kingy (17/7/14)

Yea I'm more after better control over mash temps. And being able to wake up and turn it on. Go away,come back mash in, set temps then dissapear, play with kids whatever and just stick my head in check the temp. Without raising bag turning burner on and heating mash blah blah.

To many questions, I keep changing my mind lol
Would a 2400 watt in an in a fire extinguisher be enough for a double batch or should I squeeze 2x2400 in there. ( I have 16amp in shed)
I could eliminate the element from the boiler/mash tun and just recirculate through the hx to get it up to strike temp.??? If that makes sence.


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## Kingy (17/7/14)

It's pretty much have a element in my 50litre which can be interchangable with my 80litre for double batches and have a element in my hx.
Or have 2 elements in my hx and none in my pots.


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## TheWiggman (17/7/14)

Kingy said:


> My heat exchanger is going to be something along these lines.
> Fire extinguisher with top cut off.(hoping there made of stainless and weldable otherwise ill have to change plans,)
> Weld a 5star 2400watt element up through the bottom of the exinguisher then coil 1/2 inch copper from top to bottom then back up so the inlet and outlet are at upper sides of the unit. (element up through in middle of coil)
> 
> ...


Fire extinguishers will either be aluminium or some form of steel. It doesn't matter what your heat exchanger body is made out of because it doesn't come in contact with the wort. Any reason you're going for an extinguisher? You could still use one but, though it'll be thick I'd imagine and a fair bit if work to fit things to. 

I'd hold off the extra element to start with. You'll need it when you expand to the additional pot anyway so get one, but I reckon it adds unnecessary complexity. Extra cable, more to clean, an extra hole etc. Try it without to start with (I heat my system through the HERMS) and if the time's that critical, add it. 

For reference I have 3 mad kids under 5 and I manage to get brews out. The kids aren't the issue, it's the wife. 
And bloody well post some pics when it starts coming together.


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## Kingy (17/7/14)

The only reason I'm going for an extinguisher is I have one sitting here that was free of charge and I have an element sitting here that can be welded into the bottum (that's if the extinguisher is stainless) (won't know until I cut it open I suppose) and the element is 250- 300mm(it's down the shed) straight length and I plan on coiling from the top inlet down around the element and back up around the first coil to the outlet. Plus having the red on the extinguisher will add some caracter to my setup lol


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## Kingy (26/7/14)

my 5 star elements turned up last week, just gotta wire em up and get one welded up through the bottom of hex.
still wondering weather to have the copper coil coming in through the bottom left side and coiling around the element and out the top right side.
or coming in the top left side and coiling around and out the bottom right side. Or in the top, coiling around to the bottom then coiling around back to the top and out the right side. Big decisions.
Got a new 3piece Stainless ballvalve coming with 90degree compression fitting to fit my T screen bazooka to have at at the edge of the pot.

This build could take a while, lots of planning and thinking and $$ involved.

Already thinking of getting another 2 80itre pots and having a 3x80litre herms full system. And Just use my small 50lt pot for single biab batches through the hex.


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## Kingy (26/7/14)

Measured my fire extinguisher it holds 9 litres. There is going to be a fair bit of water covering the element I'm wondering if I should cut it down a touch or just leave it and jam more copper in there 



Also do you guys buy the coiled copper and recoil it to suit or buy a straight length and cool that?

Bunnings had 3 meter and 18metre coils or I'm pretty sure Reece or tradelink have 6metre straight lengths. 
Wonder how much I'll need.


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## Yob (26/7/14)

6m would be good, when I rebuild mine (if) I'll be going for longer, I currently have 3m and it works fine, was better when I was single batch but now Im doing tipple its slowed the ramp times a little, more wort in the line would help that (and less volume in the HERMS)

Careful of the pump you have though, if your pump has a 3m head and you try to do 6m it may struggle..


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## Kingy (26/7/14)

Thanks yob. I havnt thought about a pump yet, but if I just cram in there what I can I suppose I'll just have to buy a pump to suit. Do you think 6metres would be enough if I was to double coil?


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## Kingy (27/7/14)

Got a 6metre length of copper today. I figured if i can get all that in there. Have the fittings at the top and the water level just below that. The water volume will only be 7.5-8litres. 
Going to cut an old wetsuit leg off to slide over the extinguisher. 
Just gotta find someone to weld this shiny bit of gear on. Need some more $$ for some more fittings to.


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## Kingy (27/7/14)

Not herms related but I made an enclosure for my mill so I can slide a bucket in there. To make it more sturdy. Since my local brew shop has gone downhill I've had to dust off my mill , order grain from elsewhere and crack my own again. It's worked out better actually. Just need to get my grain stocks up again.


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## Kingy (15/8/14)

Got me pump this week and thought I'd give it a run tomorrow so I'm gunna recirculate my biab using my burner for heating and a spare controller to tell me the temp. Slow build but things are coming together


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## Kingy (15/8/14)

Got my element wired up on me other pot 

Got another element welded to the extinguisher


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## Kingy (16/10/14)

Few more fittings installed, just need a few for the hex now and she'll be ready to run a double batch biab through the hex to control temps while I save up for some stainless pots.
I'm wanting to use this old entertainment unit for my brew stand untill I can afford something else. Is there something I can put down like checker plate or sheet metal that's fire proof so I don't burn the timber while the burner is going?


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## Kingy (16/10/14)




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## Mr B (16/10/14)

Piece of cement board?


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## Kingy (16/10/14)

Cement board, never heard of it, I'll look into it,thanks.


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## Dan Pratt (17/10/14)

I think I have a peice of cement board at home that I will try and find.

its a 400mm x 400mm from memory that is about 1/2 inch thick


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## Dan Pratt (18/10/14)

I found that cement board. It's 430 x 650 x 10

I work in newcastle so pm me for details etc etc.


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## Kingy (12/2/15)

so ive been using cement board and it keeps cracking think im just gunna have to go stainless bench route.

On the herms side ive been a little slack lately as ive spending a lot of time in the garden and building an over engineered chicken coop.

im about to buy a 100litre stainless boiler. My current 80litre pot will retire to a mash tun. And ill use my 50 litre as hlt.
My thinking is to fill the mash tun with water (allowing enough room for all the grains and a bit of head room and run it throught the herms to heat up to needed temp and add the grains. Then when mash time is up run it into the kettle and use the remaining water required from the hlt to the mash tun and recirculate agin to mash out temps then drain.
or do 2 equal measures of water but same routine as above.
any ideas and or opinions on this?


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## spog (12/2/15)

Kingy reading through this thread the cement board being refered to and the type you need is called " thick sheet" it's a cement cellulose composition sheet usually used under wet areas over wooden floor frames. As well as external cladding.
You might be lucky and score a piece from a building site.
It has good thermal properties as it is usually around 16 mm thick,( flooring )mind you a full sheet is very pricey,it would work well on a wooden topped bench,especially if chocked up to allow air flow underneath.
Metal of ant type will absorb heat and lead to serious scorching even fire.
A perfect material is a piece of Hebel panel,this is an aerated concrete building panel,ring a few builders to find out if they can help
I have a Hebel panel shroud around my pot belly stove in the shed and when the fire is roaring the reverse side is a cool as a cucumber.
Cheers....spog...

Hebel is 75 mm thick.


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## Kingy (12/2/15)

Thanks spog. Ill try hunt some of that down sounds like the right stuff i should be using.


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## Kingy (12/2/15)

It also seems that 12inch false bottums are ok for 100litre pots. Cant wait to stop messing around with a bag. Was good for aingle batches but my 80 litre with double biab brews is gettin a pita. Edpecially when thw wort climbs the bag and dribbles down the sides.


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## Kingy (1/3/15)

So finally got my coil made up 6metres total. It sits 260mm high. (40mm above the top of the element) the current height of the extinguisher is 400 so im gunna cut that down to 300mm high or a tad higher. so its basically 6mts copper in 6litres of water. I think 50-80mm water clearance of the element would be ok? Cant imagine to much evaporation happening in there.
Is this the right way to set a pump up. If so ill probz get a t piece to come off the inlet with a ball valve so i csn drain it from there.


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## searly333 (1/3/15)

Hey Kingy,

Build's looking good mate, coming together nicely.

I'm doing some mods to my system at the moment and was just wondering where you got your element housings from?

Cheers,

Luke


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## Kingy (2/3/15)

Hey mate i got them from here http://5stardistilling.com.au he has some beautiful gear.


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## fraser_john (2/3/15)

Kingy said:


> So finally got my coil made up 6metres total. It sits 260mm high. (40mm above the top of the element) the current height of the extinguisher is 400 so im gunna cut that down to 300mm high or a tad higher. so its basically 6mts copper in 6litres of water. I think 50-80mm water clearance of the element would be ok? Cant imagine to much evaporation happening in there.
> Is this the right way to set a pump up. If so ill probz get a t piece to come off the inlet with a ball valve so i csn drain it from there.


There was a thread discussing this recently and a bloke from March Pumps(on another forum) indicated one of the best ways is to orient it vertically per his pictures in the post.


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## Kingy (5/3/15)

So ive nearly got my herms ready just waiting on a few fittings. 
For the time being i want to use it for double batch biab untill i get my 3rd vessel (100litre bk) 
my mash in water volume is around 65litres and I'm not sure if the herms will ramp that much efficently. 
So i was thinking of mashing in with lower volume say 45 litres. And have the other 20 in my hlt at 90degrees and add that to help ramp to mash out through a t piece at tge inlet of the pump at the same time as recirculating.
am i on the right track?


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## Kingy (5/3/15)

Another question that could change my last thoughts.
if i had 65 litres in one pot with a 2400 watt element installed and another pot with 65 litres but running through a herms with 2400watts. 
Which pot would heat quicker?


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## TheWiggman (6/3/15)

If they were both identical, the non-HERMS. There will be additional heat losses through the HERMS cylinder and associated pipework. Wouldn't be by much mind you.


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## Camo6 (6/3/15)

Kingy said:


> Another question that could change my last thoughts.
> if i had 65 litres in one pot with a 2400 watt element installed and another pot with 65 litres but running through a herms with 2400watts.
> Which pot would heat quicker?


Another factor to consider is whether the pot with element is being stirred/agitated and the placement of the element. Otherwise I would have thought you'd have thermal stratification which would reduce thermal efficiency. Above the element will get hotter than below.


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## Kingy (9/3/15)

Got my fittings today and got my herms up and running. Managed to get the inlet at the bottum. Great difficulty but it worked out in the end after some swear words. Glad i went that way for drainage reasons abd cleaning etc. 
My soft solder skills impressed myself but had a small leak from a compression fitting but fixed her after tightening her right up. 
Just need to wire the element up and shes ready to roll.


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## Kingy (20/3/15)

Got the element wired up, filled her up with 60 litres to see how well she works. things are coming together, slowly but as long as there is progress thats the main thing .


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## Kingy (20/3/15)

Got the element wired up, filled her up with 60 litres to see how well she works. things are coming together, slowly but as long as there is progress thats the main thing .
Defo got the ghetto look i was after lol.


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## spog (20/3/15)

Kingy said:


> Got the element wired up, filled her up with 60 litres to see how well she works. things are coming together, slowly but as long as there is progress thats the main thing .
> Defo got the ghetto look i was after lol.





fraser_john said:


> There was a thread discussing this recently and a bloke from March Pumps(on another forum) indicated one of the best ways is to orient it vertically per his pictures in the post.


A bit late,buy found this yesterday
.


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## Kingy (31/3/15)

Hey spog ive been looking at pump head orientation lately as i do get an airlock in the head at startup. So its something im going to have to sort out.

On another note, got meself a 100litre kettle. 
Im Currently mashing (double batch) in my 80litre pot with my bag and running through the herms. Jeez its great watching it do its thing. On off on off lol. Looking forward to draining the pot and into the kettle. No bag lifting required for me today. Woohoo. Things are coming along. 
Need some more fittings and another pump and false bottum then i can get a triple batch out of her.


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## Kingy (31/3/15)

Better pic


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## TheWiggman (1/4/15)

Needs more milk crates. It's also been argued this contributes to better beer.


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## Kingy (23/4/15)

A bit of an update, moved the brewery to a better position, lowered the hex and mash tun and got a few more fittings to make the day easier and finally got a false bottom. No more bag raising anymore!! Full excitement.
Ive got a 3 way valve left over im going to add it to the mash tun so i can batch sparge by filling from the bottum of one side and drain and recirculate out of the other.
Few pics


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## Kingy (13/12/15)

Been a while since I've updated this but I've ditched the fire extinguisher and got a hermit from nev at OBS. What a great bit of gear it is, I can't wait to get a 15amp plug installed to upgrade the element. I used a 5star element to keep the stainless housing. Got a bigger kettle to and just finished the stand.
Next on the list is another pump for the HLT recirculation. Not really needed for recirc but would look good and be good to have incase the other pump fails. 
And another pot is on the cards. Still unsure whether to get another 100litre or get a bigger one so I can fill 4 cubes. I'm leaning more towards the 100litre to keep it all uniform and I like driving it so 3 cubes more often would suit me better.
Need to retire the aluminium mash tun, wish has served me for many years from the start as a biab'er when I get the new pot and move the inlet valve to the left side closer to the herms.
And also setup laels braudino to control the herms View attachment 85507


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## Kingy (13/12/15)

Been a while since I've updated this but I've ditched the fire extinguisher and got a hermit from nev at OBS. What a great bit of gear it is, I can't wait to get a 15amp plug installed to upgrade the element. I used a 5star element to keep the stainless housing. Got a bigger kettle to and just finished the stand.
Next on the list is another pump for the HLT recirculation. Not really needed for recirc but would look good and be good to have incase the other pump fails. 
And another pot is on the cards. Still unsure whether to get another 100litre or get a bigger one so I can fill 4 cubes. I'm leaning more towards the 100litre to keep it all uniform and I like driving it so 3 cubes more often would suit me better.
Need to retire the aluminium mash tun, wish has served me for many years from the start as a biab'er when I get the new pot and move the inlet valve to the left side closer to the herms.
And also setup laels braudino to control the herms


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## Doogiechap (14/12/15)

Looks the goods bloke. I've drooled over Nevs Hermit's too and wouldn't mind doing an upgrade either. That said, the thing I have now works just fine so I'll bide my time and money


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## Kingy (7/1/16)

Finally got around to setting up my brauduino after I pulled out of the bulk buy then changed my mind again and got back on board. Very happy with the purchase. 
It's been a great project to study up and work on. 
Built a little stand for it to tidy up the wiring (kids in the shed all the time.) 
Still need to get another pump and some fittings. 
And still undecided on weather to get another 100litre pot for the mash tun and keep doing doubles and triples. Or getting something bigger to use as a kettle and move the current kettle to the mash tun and do quad batches. 
Leaning more towards the 100litre in case I want to make an electric kettle in the future.


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## SBOB (7/1/16)

nice brauduino/stc1000 stand


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## Benn (7/1/16)

Nice!
Are the STC's just temperature gauge's or are they running equipment? (skimmed through the thread but couldn't find anything)


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## Kingy (7/1/16)

The stc on top of the brauduino used to run the herms but is now going to control the hlt. The stc under the hlt used to control the hlt but is now going to replace an old dei-105a controller on a ferm fridge that's been going for nearly 10 years now but has a 1° swing either side of set temp. Time for it to retire.


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## Kingy (23/1/16)

So I went to buy another 100litre pot the same as the other 2 and was told by craftbrewer there not stocking them anymore [emoji107] What a bummer.


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## MastersBrewery (23/1/16)

Plastic Man said:


> cheers guys - it was a JPEG file I was trying to upload.
> 
> Slimey - PM me your email and I'll email the pics tomorrow.
> 
> cheers - Richard.


 have one stll in box where are you?


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## MastersBrewery (23/1/16)

ok on the PC see your in Newy, I'm sorta heading that way middle of next month possibly by car, I recently moved to Victoria to need to Edit my location, If your interested Pm me and we should be able to sort something out.

MB


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## lael (24/1/16)

That looks pro. Nice work!


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## Kingy (13/2/16)

So after I took MB up on his generous offer and pulled out after getting head noise. I contemplated some more over many beers and decided to think about the future and purchased a bigger boiler. So I'm not hovering around when doing triple batches watching for a boil over. And the ability to fill 4 cubes of my fav recipes when needed.
Next up is another pump. Then I can look at upgrading the electricity to the shed so I can throw more power at it and upgrade/add more elements.


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## Mr B (13/2/16)

What size did you go for?

150l?


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## Kingy (13/2/16)

130litre from cheeky peak. Really good quality for the price. Sandwich base as well.


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## Mr B (14/2/16)

Mmm ta, looks good indeed....


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## Kingy (27/3/16)

Got another pump and some hose for me bday last week. So it's all finished except for a power upgrade down the track.
Brewed up a 92litre (4cubes) batch everything went great so decided to brew another one the same day and the element in my herms started tripping the power. Pretty sure it's blown. After a few tests and rewiring to another element to make sure it wasn't the controller im fairly confident of it being the element. So I've ordered a new one. 
Was lucky it blew half way through mash recirc. Temp dropped 3 degrees towards the end (no drama) just batched sparged with hotter water to get to mash out.
Also it felt good to be able to use the adjustable regulater on the burner for once and open her up. Had 90mm of head space at start of boil so no chance (small) of a boilover either.
Edit: need a new project now. 
Maybe a small single batch recirculation rig that I can use my controller with. Or maybe either a biab setup again.


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## TheWiggman (27/3/16)

First I've heard of the 5 star elements tripping, no good. 
I'm unqualified to say this but you know you've matured as a brewer when you have an equipment failure halfway through and instead of freaking out, think about where it's up to and make some adjustments to suit. Well done.


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## MastersBrewery (27/3/16)

Kingy what sort of ramp times are you getting with the 3600w herms at your 92L batch size?


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## Kingy (27/3/16)

TheWiggman said:


> First I've heard of the 5 star elements tripping, no good.
> I'm unqualified to say this but you know you've matured as a brewer when you have an equipment failure halfway through and instead of freaking out, think about where it's up to and make some adjustments to suit. Well done.


I think I may have cooked my element with my last hex. As I used it in oil a few times and it got really hot.


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## Kingy (27/3/16)

MastersBrewery said:


> Kingy what sort of ramp times are you getting with the 3600w herms at your 92L batch size?


Hi mate I've only been running a 2400w untill I get the power in the shed sorted. I wouldn't bother trying to step mash with it when doing a big batch. It's good for double and triple batches tho.


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## Adr_0 (27/3/16)

If you had oil anywhere near your brewing equipment, make sure you do a nice hot wash with caustic, eg sodium metasilicate.


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## Mr B (27/3/16)

Kingy any chance of a water volume length and diameter of the herms housing?

Thats a great rig, well done.


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## Kingy (4/4/16)

Yea sorry Mr B the length is 300mm x 95mm wide the volume of water is about 1800mls. Original design I think is about 1600mls but as I used the 5 star element housing it adds abit more volume because of the 4inch-2inch reducer. 



After stripping the plastic pump head last clean down I got me self a new staino one. Feels solid as now. Gotta get one for me other pump now when funds permit. 


I also installed my new element and it fixed the problem of tripping the power. After many hours thinking how I could of blown the last element it dawned on me that it started tripping after I doughed in. And as I wasn't recirculating and I forgot to turn the heat off it boiled and water was squirting out the breather hole causing the element to overheat.


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## dblunn (4/4/16)

I have a similar HEX with a 3kW element and every brew day at some point I forget to pause the PID controller when swapping hoses or something else that halts the flow through the HEX and yes, it starts spitting at me. My plan to combat the forgetfulness is rather than just shut the valve off is to make a better controller with pump on/off control from the panel and code it so it also pauses the heater control at the same time. Of course it wont stop me from shutting the valve off and forgetting the element but it would be a step forward.
Dave


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