# Wheat beer Yeast help



## Chookers (8/1/16)

I will very soon be making a Wheat beer, I will most likely be using Mangrove Jacks M20, despite originally following advice to use Forbidden Fruit. I am not so sure those flavours are what I was after.

I do not want a sour beer. I do want to taste some fruits but I do not want Bananarama.

I have read that if you under pitch your yeast you get more fruits, so my question is how would I go about under pitching this yeast to get noticeable fruits, in a 12L batch?

and out of curiosity and because I haven't fully committed yet, how would I do this with the Forbidden Fruit.

Thanks in advance to those generous teachers out there..


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## mr_wibble (10/1/16)

The under-pitching refers to the yeast Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan (and the White-labs version).

The key with a good _German-style_ wheat beer (i.e.: Hefeweizen), is to balance the banana aroma with the clove.
It's easy to get more clove with '3068 - pitch a good lot of yeast. To get the balance toward the banana, you need to pitch a lower amount of yeast.

But how low?

There is a "Basic Brewing Radio" show where a guy presents some results on an experiment doing just this:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio - look for "*Hefeweizen Pitching Rate Experiment"*
Or a link to stream the .mp3 -> http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr08-20-15hefeexp.mp3
(I notice there is also a newer one on fermentation temperature in the same theme, I haven't listened to that yet)

In this programme, the experimenter explains that (by mistake) he pitched only 30% of the ideal amount of yeast. But even that beer was appreciated by his tasting panel. EDIT: I'm not advocating pitching 30% of a pack BTW.

FWIW "Forbidden Fruit" is typically a Belgian pale ale yeast. I love it, and reckon it would make a great beer with most worts.
But it will not make a hefeweizen.

If you don't care about the style so much, Forbidden Fruit could make a great beer, but so would a lot of other yeasts, probably M20 too.
Personally I really like the hefeweizen style, so if I'm making a wheat beer I will only ferment with Weihenstephan yeast.
I did try to get the Ayinger yeast from Wyeast, but (at the time) they didn't have it in saleable quantities.
I don't think I have used M20, but I have used Fermentis wheat beer yeast (Safbrew WB-06) a few times. For hefewiezen it's chalk & cheese against '3068.

Of course if you don't want a whole lot of esters in your beer anyway, as with other styles, keep the fermentation temperature lower. I ferment '3068 at 18-19C. Reports I've read here say 20C gives a lot of esters with '3068.

When I use '3068, I smack the pack the day before. I pitch it into about a 22 litre batch. According to what I've read, this is a modest under-pitch. I'm reasonably happy with the result. Although my taste is quite sensitive to the clove ester, so maybe you'd find this too banana-ry.


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## Weizguy (10/1/16)

_First up,_ I have to state that ALL wheat beers are NOT the same, and it aggravates me that brewers use it as a generic term when they obviously mean otherwise.

There are the main types of: Hefeweizen (Weiss or Dunkel, and I suppose Bock), Belgian WItbier (with orange and coriander and clove flavours), and the American Wheat beer, which is similar to a low-hopped, low bitterness APA with wheat.

Forbidden Fruit (Verboten Vrucht) is a Wit-style and unsuitable for pretty much any other style of beer (maybe honey blonde, but I stray from the topic).

Please specify the style, or even the beer you are trying to emulate in style (e.g Schofferhofer, Hoegaarden, Burleigh Brewing hefe, Moo Brew hefe, Redback, etc) and then we can help you more.

Les out (*edited for spelling - Pedantry, I know)


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## mr_wibble (10/1/16)

Les the Weizguy said:


> _First up,_ I have to state that ALL wheat beers are NOT the same, and it aggravates me that brewers use it as a generic term when they obviously mean otherwise.


Yeah, but hefeweizen is the only one that matters


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## Chookers (10/1/16)

Sorry *Les *I see by your name that you are passionate about this, but I am new to Wheat Beers and I was trying to do this diplomatically which is why I didn't say a style.. I didn't want to say a style of wheat beer and be talking about it when I know absolutely nothing about it, that's why I used the general term 'Wheat Beer'.

From your other posts and roaming around these forums I have read a lot and checked the style guides, Weissbier or Hefeweizen I suppose is what I'd be going for, or is Weissbier just German for Wheat Beer?

On your recommendation I tried the Schofferhofer Hefeweizen and the Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier. I liked the Weihenstephaner better. I see on the bottle one is Bavarian style and one is German. I found the german one farty.

I wouldn't want to put coriander in my beer. I like the idea of the cloves and banana flavours and I have read vanilla comes through too sometimes which is why I was leaning towards the *M20 *yeast. I also wouldn't mind if citrus flavours came through, but I would be hesitant to add any rinds. I do NOT want a *sour* beer that's for sure.

This is my first Wheat based beer, I was going to experiment with it, put 4L on some Raspberries or other fruit, and have the rest *'au naturale'*

Sorry if I get the terms wrong or style names (or lack thereof) I am still learning. Please be patient with me. I thank you for your comments and advice.


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## Chookers (10/1/16)

Thanks Mr Wibble, I found it at http://www.hommelhomebrew.com/?cat=42 this is exactly what I wanted. I wouldn't have found it without your links. cheers


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## Chookers (10/1/16)

Anyone out there think Summer and Willamette would work in this beer?


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## Bribie G (10/1/16)

OT but American Wheat beers such as Murray's Whale Ale are yummy.


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## Chookers (10/1/16)

I know Bribie, I thought it was cheeky.. but I hijacked my own, should I take it off.. h34r:


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## earle (10/1/16)

Chookers said:


> Sorry *Les *I see by your name that you are passionate about this, but I am new to Wheat Beers and I was trying to do this diplomatically which is why I didn't say a style.. I didn't want to say a style of wheat beer and be talking about it when I know absolutely nothing about it, that's why I used the general term 'Wheat Beer'.
> 
> From your other posts and roaming around these forums I have read a lot and checked the style guides, Weissbier or Hefeweizen I suppose is what I'd be going for, or is Weissbier just German for Wheat Beer?
> 
> ...


Ok, sounds like you want to brew a weizen (also called hefeweizen or weissbier)

Forget about sourness, that's a berliner Weiss - totally different style.

Forget about citrus (and coriander) - that's a Belgian wit - again a totally different style

Forget lots of hops - that's an American wheat - totally different style

As you can see, like Les said, if you specify a style or brand name, you'll get much better advice.

Go the M20, there's another recent thread on it. In general, temp defines what flavours you get from the yeast, banana or clove. I've read that about 17C will give a nice balance of both.

A weizen is about the wheat and the yeast. Don't overcomplicate the recipe past that. Good malt bill, noble hops at 60 min and maybe a small dose late but the style really is about the yeast, not hops. I only use a 60min addition in my weizens for the desired bitterness, no other additions so very little hop flavour or aroma.


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## earle (10/1/16)

Chookers said:


> Anyone out there think Summer and Willamette would work in this beer?


No, hops for bittering mainly. As above, noble hops for bitterness, very little hops otherwise.


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## Blind Dog (10/1/16)

Chookers said:


> Anyone out there think Summer and Willamette would work in this beer?


Both will 'work', but neither will give you a traditional German weissbier; summer (IMO) is likely to get you closest. Personally I'd try it and see as the playing around with ingredients is half the fun of what we do and you may just strike Homebrew gold


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## Chookers (10/1/16)

Thanks for the breakdown *earle* its helping a lot to clarify this..

Thanks Blind dog.. I like experimenting..

also my hop choices are limited to Nelson Sauvin, Motueka (BSAAZ), Summer and Willamette. I don't know if any of what I have would work for a traditional German Weissbier.. so I wouldn't win any comps then if I submitted this as a Hefe using any of them?

sorry I know its OffTopic again.


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## earle (10/1/16)

If you're only going to add a 60min addition for bittering it won't matter that much. Choose the highest AA% hop of what you have so you don't need to use as much.


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## Coodgee (10/1/16)

I would actually disagree with this. I find my lager brewed with saaz are a lot smoother and mellower than the same ibu with magnum. I found the difference to be quite striking. My personal experience only.


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## Topher (10/1/16)

Mate Ive used summer in a hefe before and it's fine. Use it at 60min only.


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## Chookers (10/1/16)

Thanks guys, it looks like the general consensus is 60min regardless.. One more item ticked off my list.

Coodgee I will try the Bsaaz then.

I may do another experiment with the Summer.. I'll see how I go.


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## danestead (11/1/16)

A few translations of German to help you figure out what the different German wheat beer names mean because it confused the heck out of me before I knew. I think most of the German wheat beers are the same style but different regions tend to use the following different terms in different ways to label their beer.

Weizen - wheat
Weiss - white
Dunkel - dark
Hefe - yeast
Bier - beer

I also believe wit translates to white but I'd say that's dutch.


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## jyo (11/1/16)

Back to your original concerns about Bananarama. Ferment the M20 at 17-18' and you will get a subtle balance of clove, vanilla and banana. Higher into the 20's and you will get this-

https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://vanegmond.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/66-BANANARAMA-1989.jpg&imgrefurl=http://vanegmond.com.au/events/bananarama/&h=600&w=1000&tbnid=EfRd7RiLczsmqM:&docid=LBe-QX1xve9TyM&ei=M2ySVq7yLITOmwWXvLuwDw&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwju16Hcu5_KAhUE56YKHRfeDvYQMwgxKAAwAA

M20 is actually a nice dried weizen yeast. I personally wouldn't use Willamette. For me, a Hefe is Tettnanger, Hallertau or Hersbrucker.


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

danestead, thanks for the translation.. Weizen and Weiss were confusing my a bit.

Thanks jyo, love the pic... I thought Willamette could be used as a substitute for those hops, I know its your opinion, (which I trust more than the generic hop lists), should I trust these lists?


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## manticle (11/1/16)

Coodgee said:


> I would actually disagree with this. I find my lager brewed with saaz are a lot smoother and mellower than the same ibu with magnum. I found the difference to be quite striking. My personal experience only.


Not specifically with magnum (which I haven't used) but in general I agree. Bitterness is not bitterness.


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## jyo (11/1/16)

Chookers said:


> danestead, thanks for the translation.. Weizen and Weiss were confusing my a bit.
> 
> Thanks jyo, love the pic... I thought Willamette could be used as a substitute for those hops, I know its your opinion, (which I trust more than the generic hop lists), should I trust these lists?


As just a 60 minute addition, it will be fine, mate. Try the williamette, then give Tett a go next time. Beautiful hop in these beers.


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## Droopy Brew (11/1/16)

Chookers said:


> Thanks guys, it looks like the general consensus is 60min regardless.. One more item ticked off my list.
> 
> *Coodgee I will try the Bsaaz then.*
> 
> I may do another experiment with the Summer.. I'll see how I go.


No mate dont use that, it is nothing like Saaz despite the name. Quite a fruity hop also known as Motueka. Great hop but not suited to a Weissen/Hefe. Stick with Summer or Willamete.


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

Droopy Brew, I think that what Im going to do is even smaller batches, I have 2 10lt Jerry Cans, and since I believe the Wheat Yeasts need quite a large head space, and even though it will be twice the work for half the beer, this is my experiment..

So my proposal is to do 2 batches of 7Lt one with Summer, and one with Willamette.. This way I can test them side by side.

I have 2kg of JW Wheat Malt and 1kg of JW Pilsner.. I do not know how big a batch that would make in total? 20Lt is my guess..


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## Reman (11/1/16)

2.4kg of grain gets me 10l at 1.050 OG, so 3kg will probably get you about 12-13l.


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

oh wow, I was really off..

Doesn't matter I wasn't going to make 20L anyway, I was aiming for about 12.5L batch.. so I fluked it then


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## Blind Dog (11/1/16)

My rough rule of thumb is 1kg of base malt in a standard 19L batch gives 10 gravity points or 1% ABV after fermentation. Its very rough and ready and varies a lot depending on mash temp, efficiency, yeast used, malt etc. So 3kg of base malt in 12.5L should give about 45 gravity points (SG 1.045) and a beer with about 4.5% ABV. As I said, its rough but a guide none the less.

Also, you might want to think about adding rice hulls to the mash as wheat malt is huskless and can easily result in stuck, gummy mashes if used in high concentrations - i find it a problem over 30% or so, but it depends on your set up.


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

Blind Dog would you still need rice hulls if using BIAB?


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## Blind Dog (11/1/16)

Probably not if you stir the grain well to break up the dough balls and don't recirculate; but i don't think i brewed a wheat beer back when I was doing BIAB


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## Weizguy (11/1/16)

> <snipped>
> 
> I also believe wit translates to white but I'd say that's dutch.


Not quite Dutch, but a Belgian variant called Flemish.



> Anyone out there think Summer and Willamette would work in this beer?


Probably would if 'This Beer" is an American wheat. I have enjoyed some Willamette late hop flavoured beers that I have made.
As for Weizen, maybe bitter with B Saaz, as I have made great weizens with Saaz. Summer would likely suit the style too, as they do not focus on hop flavour so much.
Was going to try some Southern Cross for a weizen soonish (when I have opportunity to brew again).


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

Thanks Blind Dog and Les,

I think I got enough info to start it off, just waiting on the delivery of my M20 yeast. and if I follow the experiment results on hommelhomebrew web site, that means I will need 69.07 billion cells. So I will have to make the starter with that in mind.. theres my new challenge.

off mangrove jacks site I got this info on the yeast

*VIABLE YEAST CELLS: *>5 x 109 CFU/gram

Im not a scientist, what the holy hell does it mean?? I know it must be talking about how many cells are in my packet of yeast.


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## manticle (11/1/16)

If I haven't fucked up my calculations it should be more than 5 billion cells per gram.
CFU is colony forming units, an expression of measurement of bacterial or fungal cells.

So 13-14 g fresh, healthy dried yeast should be about right (assuming my maths is)


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

wow thanks Manticle.. I think you gotta be a molecular biologist to decode these things.. or some type of genius.


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## manticle (11/1/16)

While I will accept some amount of genius forms part of my essential self, there's very few mysteries that can't be solved with the right search engine.


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## Blind Dog (11/1/16)

Not sure how useful the viability information is on their website as >5 billion CFUs per gram could mean just over 5 billion or way over. Each yeast strain has the same number and that seems odd if it's meant to be anything more than a minimum number. If it was just 5bn per gram, then pitching a single packet into 25L of 1.050 wort (as the website suggests) would be a massive under pitch

Brewers friend suggests 10 billion cells per gram is a decent guess for dried yeast in good condition, which would give you 100bn cells in a 10g packet. Mr Malty suggests double that. The reality is that it's likely to lie somewhere between 5bn cells per gram and a significantly bigger number.

Despite all that confusion, I can't recall having an issue pitching a single packet (rehydrated) into 20l batches of up to 1.050 gravity for any dry yeast I've used. YMMV


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## Chookers (11/1/16)

I was trying to figure out how much yeast I would have to add to get 60% of what is considered normal.. as the guy on hommel homebrew did trials that suggested under pitching at this rate seemed to give a nice balance of fruit and cloves.. I know he was using a different yeast in his trials, but I was hoping it would carry over to the dry yeast.. I am most probably wrong about this.. I seem to be wrong about most things.

I was thinking to add 5g of dried yeast.. but whether to add this as a starter or sprinkle straight into the wort as the packet instructions suggest, I wouldn't know which is better. But I think a starter wouldn't hurt it.


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## Chookers (7/2/16)

so I finally did my Hefeweizen style wheat beer (Im not confident enough to call it just 'Hefeweizen')..

I must have made some miscalculations somewhere along the line.. I was aiming to have 11L in the fermenter out of my 3kg of grain. But I only ended up with just under 9L.. very disappointed (on the plus side, there will be plenty of head space in the fermenter).. OG is 1050, and it is supposedly 14 IBUs.. (I can barely detect any bitterness in the wort).

I am going to add 1/3 pkt M20 Mangrove Jack yeast, when it gets to 18 degrees.

Really pissed I didn't get my 11Litres


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## Chookers (19/2/16)

checked SG after a week and it was 1020. Im giving it another week.

I hope it drops a bit more. I am hoping this slow ferment is due to the cooler temps. 18degrees


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## Reman (20/2/16)

The hefe I brewed 3 weeks ago dropped from 1.044 to 1.008 in about 3 days, so yours is taking its sweet time! If it slowly keeps dropping you're probably all sweet, but if it gets stuck maybe consider pitching more of your yeast.


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## Chookers (20/2/16)

yeh, I was afraid it might get stuck.. but I did purposefully under pitch following the logic of Hommelhomebrew Hefeweizen.

I hope I didn't over under pitch :huh:


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## Chookers (23/2/16)

checked sg today it was 1018, I tasted it and there was absolutely zero hint of sweet.. It tastes quite thin and as if its about to go sour (if that makes any sense). I cant tell if its supposed to taste like that or not.

I suppose I will have to carb it up and compare to a store bought hefeweizen. I can see why these are the type of beer that is mostly used in fruit beers.

not impressed..

it is possible that I don't like whet beers I suppose, maybe they're supposed to taste like this.


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## Reman (24/2/16)

If it's still dropping then you might want to leave until the SG reading stabilises over a couple of days.

I just bottled my hefe and without the carb and not at 3c it tastes pretty crappy, this is not like my non-hefes which always taste pretty good flat and warm. So I wouldn't judge before you've given it a chance!


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## kaiserben (24/2/16)

Chookers said:


> checked sg today it was 1018, I tasted it and there was absolutely zero hint of sweet.. It tastes quite thin and as if its about to go sour (if that makes any sense). I cant tell if its supposed to taste like that or not.


Is that a typo? Should it be 1.008? (I assume that because you said it tastes quite thin and not at all sweet). 1.018 just isn't low enough IMO. 

Quite thin and a bit sour sounds pretty normal. Weizens are an acquired taste. 

EDIT: I've never used the yeast you're using, but usually my Weizens spend only 10 days in the fermenter - usually 5 days controlled temps then 5 days at room temp. I check gravity on days 9 and 10 and it's always well and truly done. My FGs always end up 1.013 or lower; even as low as 1.007 (style guidelines call for 1.010 - 1.014).


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## fraser_john (24/2/16)

Chookers said:


> <snip> It tastes quite thin and as if its about to go sour (if that makes any sense). I cant tell if its supposed to taste like that or not.<<snip>


Some wheat yeasts do produce a bit of tang so would not stress about that, 1.018 is too high to finish though and weizen yeasts are usually pretty good at attenuating.


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## Chookers (24/2/16)

Well I have stopped controlling the temps now, and will check the SG again (tomorrow I think will be better).

Kaiserben it is not a typo, when I checked the SG yesterday it was 1.018, which surprised me as the flavour did not reflect this IMO. I am starting to think my hydrometers are haunted or something because I have never gotten the readings I expect (unless I have done a kit).

Reman it tastes CRAPPY! I was almost ready to tip down the drain, but I read a few other posts which made me think its meant to taste this way. The drain still looks like a good idea, but despite this I think I'll continue. Give it more time for the sg to drop and even bottle it, then find someone who drinks this style and ask them if its right.

FraserJohn I hope that is the case with mine I was actually trying to make a beer that wasn't sour.. and I am so tempted to give it another whack of hops even though that's not the traditional, I know these type of beers are usually quite low on hops.

Thanks guys for your input and suggestions, I'm hoping my beer is just doing what its supposed to, and I haven't waste my time and resource.

Lol, I could enter it in that amateur beer comp and see if anything comes of it... hehe if I win then I'll know it wasn't bad.


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## kaiserben (24/2/16)

I suspect what your tasting is expected. 

What is unexpected is where your gravity is at after this length of time (is it now 15 days since you pitched yeast?). But yeast doesn't always follow our expected schedule, so let the temp rise and hopefully it'll drop a few more points over a few more days. 

This might be obvious, but have you checked your hydrometers in plain water to see if they're at 1.000? 

What temps did you mash at and for how long?


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## Chookers (25/2/16)

kaiserben, you are correct 15 days since pitching.

I mashed in at 35,
raised to 43 for 20min,
52 for 15min
63 for 30min
72 for 30min
78 mashout

was BIAB, dunk sparged in 73.

my SG preboil was 1.036 I boiled 60min and checked SG again 1.040. I gave it another 30mins to get SG1.050

I do check my hydrometers from time to time, I have just checked it with water again now. It was 1.000 exactly.

Maybe I stuffed up with my mashing? you think?


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## kaiserben (25/2/16)

The mash temps look fine and similar to what I do. So you can probably eliminate mashing as a possible issue. 

Yeast health is about the only troubleshooting thing I've still got for you. Possibly a lack of viable yeast cells. I read you were trying to get your pitching rate low to try to get a balance of esters, and that you had to calculate for your volume and ended up pitching 1/3rd of a pack of dried yeast (or about 3.66g). Such small amounts mean your margin for error is way higher. If your yeast pack was a few months old and/or had spent some time without refridgeration you might have had a lot less healthy cells than you calculated for. 

Hopefully raising your ferment temp now knocks a bit more gravity off.


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## Chookers (25/2/16)

I think you are right Kaiserben, I think I pitched too low. There was not much in the way of a krausen, very little foam at all, and I have read that wheat yeasts generally produce quite a lot.

I will check SG again tomorrow. The temps been 22-23 degrees now for more than 24 hrs. Visually there has been no change.


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## Chookers (26/2/16)

Just checked the SG, and it has dropped 2 points, is now 1.016. I tasted it too, and it does taste considerably better. Seems to have more flavours in it now, and the tangy almost sour flavour is still there but more subdued because the other flavours are coming forward now. I think I will wait another two days and check the SG again.

Then comes bulk priming and bottling, think it will be happening this weekend hopefully.


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## Reman (26/2/16)

Try and give the fermenter a swirl and see if you can get the temp up a few degrees to encourage it to finish out


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## Chookers (28/2/16)

I did as you said Reman, and gave it a swirl. today it seems to have a little bit of foam on top in patches. I tried to take the SG but the bubbles kept sticking to my hydrometer, I spun it to shake them off but they were just replaced instantly by more bubbles. In the end I decided to leave the sample awhile till the bubbles stop coming. I didn't seem to have this problem the other days.

It looked like 1.018.. but I think that's the bubbles, as the other day it was clearly 1.016


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## Chookers (1/3/16)

Ok, its at 1.014.. and a bubble every 2mins or so through the air lock..


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## Reman (1/3/16)

Good, looks like it's kicking along. Even though it might be getting closer to FG I'd give it another swirl to give it a final push. Make sure the SG measures the same for two days before bottling.


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## Chookers (4/3/16)

it was 1.010 yesterday. I'm hoping it is 1.010 today too, so I can hurry up and bottle this bloody thing! and drink it.. tasting better everytime I test the gravity.


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## Reman (5/3/16)

Remember to come back and show us a pic and what it tastes like!


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## Chookers (5/3/16)

will do


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## Chookers (7/3/16)

I ended up bottling 8.4L what an epic disappointment that is... I really thought Id get more than that. To this I bulk primed with 75g Dex +200ml water, and boiled it for 2mins.. I am thinking I over did it maybe..


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## kaiserben (7/3/16)

http://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/


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## Chookers (7/3/16)

thanks Kaiserben, if that calculator is reliable then I'm all good.


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## kaiserben (7/3/16)

Chookers said:


> thanks Kaiserben, if that calculator is reliable then I'm all good.




Probably even slightly under (to be within guidelines for this style).


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## Chookers (7/3/16)

well I'm glad I made the mistake then, or it would have been even less.


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## Chookers (9/3/16)

bottles are getting quite firm. Only bottled them on Sunday.


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## kaiserben (9/3/16)

Sounds normal. It's just a mini ferment; a lot of action for the first few days, then slows right down for the rest until it finally finishes fermenting.


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## Chookers (9/3/16)

cool.. thanks Kaiserben..


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## Chookers (13/3/16)

I couldn't wait, and had to try it.. I'm not going to give a description yet.. I am terrible at describing things but I will get a bottle of Weihenstephan Hefe Weissbier so I can compare..

My issue with this beer is its cloudy, supposedly that is how these beers are unless they are Krystal type. But the cloudiness is putting people off trying it, and it tastes not too bad. I'm sure it will be heaps better by next Sunday, as it isn't fully carbed yet.. I was just impatient to try it.


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## Reman (13/3/16)

Hey chokers, they are cloudy, it's protein haze from the wheat and some from the yeast. It took mine about 10 days after bottling to lose the green flavour, so make sure you leave it a little before comparing.


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## Chookers (13/3/16)

Ok Reman, I'll give it to the end of the month.. then I will do the comparison.


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## Reman (13/3/16)

I know it's hard, but sample along the way and you'll notice when it goes from a little harsh and grainy to smooth and malty.


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## Chookers (14/3/16)

it is hard.. and I expected it to be a failure the whole time.

I have been getting great advice on this topic from you and the others (which has been right, all the way through) and I have seen this beer changing, so I am becoming more optimistic about it.

I'm itching for it to be ready... I need something to do in the mean time.. I should brew something else while I wait...is this how you get addicted to Homebrew?


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## MickGC (14/3/16)

Exactly how you get addicted.
Next thing you know you will have 8 kegs, 10 fermenters, 2 fridges and 4 5L demijons of Mead and cider.


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## Chookers (15/3/16)

lol Mick.. so true..

I actually started by doing mead, I already have 5 x 5L swing top demijohns.. now Honey is too expensive and I have packed them away.


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## Chookers (30/3/16)

Ok so here is my side by side with *Weihenstephaner*
I took photos, but I have no idea how to attach them


Well the smell of the *Weihenstephaner *is corny and yeasty, *Mine* had a more fruity smell and no corn aroma at all I couldn't smell any yeast either.
The *Weihenstephaner *was although cloudy was clearer, the colour of both was the same, but *Mine *was a bit more cloudy.
To me the *Weihenstephaner *had a more savoury flavour, also tasted more yeasty. *Mine* tasted a bit more tangy, and though not sweet, it seemed sweeter and with a cleaner flavour, more fruity but no banana, also* Mine* was less bitter.
Carbonation of both seemed pretty close.
Of course I liked my own one better, so did my other taste testers.


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## hirschb (1/4/16)

It sounds like your tasting a very old bottle of Weihenstephaner. Corn odors generally mean DMS, which I doubt you'll find in a Weihenstephaner. I wonder if there might be some mild autolysis, or particular esters that are being interpreted as corn.


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## kaiserben (1/4/16)

Yeah - any wheat beer that's been imported is well past its best. They're even more past their best if they haven't been kept in a fridge (or, even worse, been out the back of a warehouse in the sun).


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## Matplat (1/4/16)

Not so sure about that, I had a schofferhofer a few weeks ago which was absolutely sensational!


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## hirschb (1/4/16)

Wheat beers will hold up over time much, much better than a hoppy beer, and bottle conditioned beers often hold up better than filtered beers. Is there a date on the bottle? I pretty much avoid buying commercial beer bottles unless I'm pretty certain that the bottle is fresh (if it's needed for the style). That is one of the great things about sour beers, they actually improve with age.


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## Chookers (2/4/16)

The date on the bottle says 30/11/16 17:14, I bought it from Dan Murphys in out of the fridge, brought it home and put it straight in my fridge. I also bought a bottle of *Franziskaner Hefe Weissbier*, I suppose I better do a side by side with that bottle too.

Perhaps I picked up a bad bottle of the Weihenstephaner?

Is there a good Aussie version of this beer I can compare it too, I just wanted to make sure I was in the realm of flavour I'm supposed to be in with this style.


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## manticle (2/4/16)

Could try moo brew hefeweizen but should also be able to find fresher, better kept versions of schoferhoffer, erdinger, weihenstephaner or franziskaner.


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## Chookers (2/4/16)

heres a photo


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## Chookers (2/4/16)

HAAhaa!! I finally found the attach button.. "I swears it precious, it wasn't there before"

Any ways my brew is on the left


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## Weizguy (2/4/16)

Chookers said:


> The date on the bottle says 30/11/16 17:14, I bought it from Dan Murphys in out of the fridge, brought it home and put it straight in my fridge. I also bought a bottle of *Franziskaner Hefe Weissbier*, I suppose I better do a side by side with that bottle too.
> 
> Perhaps I picked up a bad bottle of the Weihenstephaner?
> 
> Is there a good Aussie version of this beer I can compare it too, I just wanted to make sure I was in the realm of flavour I'm supposed to be in with this style.


I usually check expiry dates on beer, especially imported beer, as I have been caught out a few times, especially with Czech pils or other lager (including Coopers*

* was told to buy a box full of one of the Coopers lagers, after contacting the company to complain about a few singles that were 'Meh'. Nope, don't believe the hype.



manticle said:


> Could try moo brew hefeweizen but should also be able to find fresher, better kept versions of schoferhoffer, erdinger, weihenstephaner or frankinzaner.


Redback is still fair passable in my book, and similar to Schneider Weisse. Usually good to go for Moo Brew and Schoff or Paulaner. Weihenstephan is normally quite good/fresh too. Flying Dog wheat is surprisingly good too, in my experience.
If you can find a pub that has Erdinger or Franziskaner on tap, they are usually in good nick.


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## manticle (2/4/16)

Forgot paulaner. Worth it when fresh.

And by fresh I don't mean arrived from the brewery yesterday, I mean within date and not mistreated.


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## Chookers (2/4/16)

Cool, I will have to go and get some of those.. thanks for the suggestions


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## Matplat (5/4/16)

Yep I had a wiehenstephaner on the weekend that had a best before date in either july 2016 or july 2017 can't quite remember which.... and it was worth the $6.20 i paid for the single! I almost saved the sediment to reculture the yeast, but then I couldn't be arsed...


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