# 300-400 Litre Brewing System



## byrnesy50

G'day all,

I am in the process of starting up a craft beer venue. I am keen to put a 300-400 litre brew system in the back of the venue. This is to brew only small batch limited release beers only for sale at the venue. I need a basic system that can produce quality beer but does not cost me an arm and a leg. It will not be on show so there is no concern about what it looks like. I would appreciate some advice on the best place to source something like this or even better if somebody has a system for sale. The majority of our beer range will be from Craft Breweries around Australia and NZ and we will have no mainstream beers. We are only hoping to produce enough beer to supply a tap or two at the venue. 

Cheers,

Grant


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## QldKev

Prob too big, and over your budget

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ME:B:SS:AU:1123 
Be plenty left over to bottle for patrons to purchase to take home.



Otherwise there is a place in Perth that builds good sized s/s pot for a decent price. Can't remember their name, but I've seen a couple on here with the pots. One recently build one but I cant remember who it was. Hopefully they will let you know.

QldKev


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## Malted

http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/Braumeister-200/::26.html

From the acclaimed Speidel Braumeister range come their 200L unit. Small brewery footprint, easy to use and makes great beer. Available from Mark's Homebrewand Grain & Grape.


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## byrnesy50

Thanks Kev,

I will look into it. I appreciate you getting back to you me so quick! I will let you all know when the venue is up and running and get you all out there supporting craft beer!!

Cheers,

Grant



QldKev said:


> Prob too big, and over your budget
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ME:B:SS:AU:1123
> Be plenty left over to bottle for patrons to purchase to take home.
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise there is a place in Perth that builds good sized s/s pot for a decent price. Can't remember their name, but I've seen a couple on here with the pots. One recently build one but I cant remember who it was. Hopefully they will let you know.
> 
> QldKev


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## DanIAm

Good luck with your endeavour byrnesy50, sounds like fun.


Maybe it's worth enquiring about systems like a Speidel Braumeister. They do have a 200 Litre version.

The 20 Litre version is $2,500.
The 30 Litre version is $3,500
So the 200 Litre version is only going to cost a fraction of the qldkevs ebay find. Mate, that ebay link was good beer porn, I had to look at that picture several times.

The other main part of the puzzle is kegs, fermenters and a temperature controlled place for fermentation. With the fermenters, I'm hazarding a guess that you'd get be able to get a stainless steel version of the right size from the wine industry (maybe second hand?).


The Speidel system isn't the only one, there are competitors so do your research. Australian sales agents are 

Grain and Grape http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8813
Marks Homebrew http://www.ubrew.com.au/web/index.asp

Chat to either of these stores and you'll know more about what they are/do which will make your research on competitive products easier.

You could also build one. The Brewers Den has a photo of the system that the owner built, he loves to chat about it so give him a call. Pictures are here http://www.thebrewersden.com.au/a/Beer-Stuff


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## byrnesy50

Haha classic. It was one sexy microbrewery on EBAY. Unfortunately well and truly out of our price range at this point in time. 
Thanks so much for your reply. Its great to have such enthusiasm from everybody and so far I have had great support from all involved in craft beer.

The venue will be called Odyssey Tavern & Brewery (we may not have the brewery installed by opening but it will be close based on the options I have found today and previously). Follow us on Twitter @OdysseyTavern for updates.

THe 200 Litre Speidel Braumeister looks like it could be a great option and i will look into the competition also. I will also contact the brewers den and have a chat.

Thanks again and I will let ya know how we go along with an invite to our opening!!

Cheers,

Grant



DanIAm said:


> Good luck with your endeavour byrnesy50, sounds like fun.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's worth enquiring about systems like a Speidel Braumeister. They do have a 200 Litre version.
> 
> The 20 Litre version is $2,500.
> The 30 Litre version is $3,500
> So the 200 Litre version is only going to cost a fraction of the qldkevs ebay find. Mate, that ebay link was good beer porn, I had to look at that picture several times.
> 
> The other main part of the puzzle is kegs, fermenters and a temperature controlled place for fermentation. With the fermenters, I'm hazarding a guess that you'd get be able to get a stainless steel version of the right size from the wine industry (maybe second hand?).
> 
> 
> The Speidel system isn't the only one, there are competitors so do your research. Australian sales agents are
> 
> Grain and Grape http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8813
> Marks Homebrew http://www.ubrew.com.au/web/index.asp
> 
> Chat to either of these stores and you'll know more about what they are/do which will make your research on competitive products easier.
> 
> You could also build one. The Brewers Den has a photo of the system that the owner built, he loves to chat about it so give him a call. Pictures are here http://www.thebrewersden.com.au/a/Beer-Stuff


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## sim

Where are you so that i might drink your beer?


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## byrnesy50

We will be just outside of Geelong on the Torquay Highway at Mount Duneed. Odyssey Tavern & Brewery - Biggest craft beer range in the region!! make sure you let me know you were from aussie home brewer when you drop in.

Cheers,

Grant



sim said:


> Where are you so that i might drink your beer?


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## iralosavic

The costs will creep up very quickly if you focus your budget on the wort creation part of the brewery. 

Something designed for commercial use to cover mash in to bottling is the go. This example could be landed in Australia for well under $20k and will set you up indefinitely.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/39768755...ct_brewery.html


http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/33193101...0l_brewery.html


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## pk.sax

Just saying, give Beerbelly.com.au a yell and see if they can fix something customised to your needs. I bet they'd loveto have a crack at something like that and good reputation for quality etc.


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## Effect

practicalfool said:


> Just saying, give Beerbelly.com.au a yell and see if they can fix something customised to your needs. I bet they'd loveto have a crack at something like that and good reputation for quality etc.



I don't think he has the budget for something that can only brew max 75 litre batches. If he wants two taps running he will need something like a 400 litre brewery.

Good quality gear though from bb.


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## mxd

iralosavic said:


> The costs will creep up very quickly if you focus your budget on the wort creation part of the brewery.
> 
> Something designed for commercial use to cover mash in to bottling is the go. This example could be landed in Australia for well under $20k and will set you up indefinitely.
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/39768755...ct_brewery.html
> 
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/33193101...0l_brewery.html



id that really the price, US$15,000 for 300 litre set up with 5 or was it 6 fermenter s ?

if so then it makes the one below a little exy ?



QldKev said:


> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ME:B:SS:AU:1123
> Be plenty left over to bottle for patrons to purchase to take home.


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## DU99

Thought of tring craftbrewer in queensland ross might be able to help you ..sounds an interesting place to visit once it opens


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## iralosavic

mxd said:


> id that really the price, US$15,000 for 300 litre set up with 5 or was it 6 fermenter s ?
> 
> if so then it makes the one below a little exy ?



It's "starting from $15k", and I think the upper end was $30k by memory. Still - buying a large scale turnkey brewery including fermenting and bright vessles from a single commercial engineering firm is the way to go IMO. $30k is definitely a reasonable budget for the brewery equipment side of starting a micro brewery. You'd obviously still have to factor in building up an inventory of stock and a whole host of other factors if marketing beyond the brewery itself.

And yeah, Ross would be worthwhile having a chat to. It's practically essential to talk to people who have 'been there, done that' before you even consider throwing together a purchase plan. Business is not the platform to 'live and learn' from.


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## jlm

If my memory serves me correctly member Wessmith on these forums has or is part of a company that sources new and used breweries from around the globe. Can't remember the name of said company however. I'd be getting some info off him, he's in the business of setting up these things (if my memory serves me correctly).


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## byrnesy50

Wow. So much to take on board. I have been researching for quite some time now and have a few options but I wish I had of asked you lot on aussiehomebrewer earlier. thanks so much for all comments and advice. I will start working through it all and I am confident I will come up with something viable.. Cheers


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## homebrewkid

just on a side note i think that one on ebay might be the one at rydges hotel in campbelltown, the timing setup seems about right if so i wonder why they are selling it.


oops i meant the setup timing........


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## Nibbo

I lool forward to checking out your place when its all up and running...what time frame are you expecting to be operating? Will be a great spot to get business in the holiday periods...


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## CONNOR BREWARE

iralosavic said:


> It's "starting from $15k", and I think the upper end was $30k by memory. Still - buying a large scale turnkey brewery including fermenting and bright vessles from a single commercial engineering firm is the way to go IMO. $30k is definitely a reasonable budget for the brewery equipment side of starting a micro brewery. You'd obviously still have to factor in building up an inventory of stock and a whole host of other factors if marketing beyond the brewery itself.
> 
> And yeah, Ross would be worthwhile having a chat to. It's practically essential to talk to people who have 'been there, done that' before you even consider throwing together a purchase plan. Business is not the platform to 'live and learn' from.


Price per vessel/ tun perhaps. I've chased quotes before from this source.


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## doon

eBay one is from flying horse in warrnambool victoria


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## byrnesy50

We are hoping to open March 31. It is going to be a great venue for the locals as well as tourists as its at the beginning of the Great Ocean Road. We are helping to spread the craft beer love to Geelong and the Surf Coast!!



Nibbo said:


> I lool forward to checking out your place when its all up and running...what time frame are you expecting to be operating? Will be a great spot to get business in the holiday periods...


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## Batz

Could I ask how much you expend to spend setting up this operation? 

Batz


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## cam89brewer

byrnesy50 said:


> We are hoping to open March 31. It is going to be a great venue for the locals as well as tourists as its at the beginning of the Great Ocean Road. We are helping to spread the craft beer love to Geelong and the Surf Coast!!



Wow March 31st this year? better make your mind up pretty quickly if you are looking to actually brew for the opening.?


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## Batz

cambrew said:


> Wow March 31st this year? better make your mind up pretty quickly if you are looking to actually brew for the opening.?




Yep it's got me rather amazed, but wishing you all well and please keep up here informed on how it's progressing. Your doing something many of us have dreamed about, and on a budget. 

batz


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## Wimmig

cambrew said:


> Wow March 31st this year? better make your mind up pretty quickly if you are looking to actually brew for the opening.?



Too right! That's with nothing going wrong.


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## byrnesy50

Everything else is in place and tracking nicely. We are hoping to have the brew system installed within the first 2 months of opening. The main focus of the venue is all other craft beers from Around Aus and NZ which is sorted and we are only hoping to brew small batch brews out the back to cater for one to two taps max. Yep the brew system is still a bit to organise but the rest of the venue is on track for the opening including our initial tap range which majority of craft breweries are very keen to be involved in. I think the best option may be to go with a Braumeister 200 initially as its a quick easy setup and readily available. In the end its the quality of the beer that matters!!

Thanks again for everyones ideas and input. it is greatly appreciated along with the support. I will spread the word once we open...which will hopefully be on time!!

CHeers,

Grant



Wimmig said:


> Too right! That's with nothing going wrong.


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## Batz

Braumeister 200 landed, set-up and brewing in 29 days, no one can say your not keen! If you can do that I'll order some of your first brew..........there you've got a customer already.

best of luck, I'm with you all the way.

batz


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## byrnesy50

Thanks Batz. It has been many years of planning and dreaming plus plenty of research to get to here. The venue itself has been our main focus initially to make sure it is up to standard and gives us the best chance of success. The only thing that has taken longer then anticipated to work out is the brew system. We reckon we have a great venue in a great place with a fantastic vision.. that is to give people a craft beer experience/journey and show just how good beer can be!

We will be looking to have guest brewers come and put small limited release batches on our system (once we get it) We will have professional brewers from craft breweries but we will also look at giving quality home brewers a chance to create a beer and have it on tap at our venue for a limited time.. If it sells well then we will give further chances to impress. I reckon most home brewers would jump at the chance to get their speciality beer on tap at a craft beer venue.. your thoughts?

Cheers,

Grant



Batz said:


> Yep it's got me rather amazed, but wishing you all well and please keep up here informed on how it's progressing. Your doing something many of us have dreamed about, and on a budget.
> 
> batz


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## byrnesy50

Ha ha yep i know i am crazy but it doesnt have to be within a month however i reckon we could do it based on some convos i have had already with suppliers. I have a couple of brewers lined up to crack into it... Realistically we wont have a brew on until the 3 month period... We will still call ourselves Odyssey Tavern & Brewery as we are not going to go changing the signs 3 months in.. there has been wore things done then that over the years in relation to marketing beer!!

you may have to come down from QLD and be a guest brewer.. We can call it the Batz Odyssey Ale!!



Batz said:


> Braumeister 200 landed, set-up and brewing in 29 days, no one can say your not keen! If you can do that I'll order some of your first brew..........there you've got a customer already.
> 
> best of luck, I'm with you all the way.
> 
> batz


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## ///

So is that 200l kit a glorified BIAB? If so, how do you manage your mash and lauter properly?

Scotty


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## NickB

Bloody hell /// way to put a man down....

Thought you might be a bit more supportive. If you bother to search, there are many multiple threads on the Braumiester.



Sheesh.


Mind you if that IS your brewery up for sale in the OP then I forgive you slightly.


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## ///

NickB said:


> Bloody hell /// way to put a man down....
> 
> Thought you might be a bit more supportive. If you bother to search, there are many multiple threads on the Braumiester.
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> 
> Mind you if that IS your brewery up for sale in the OP then I forgive you slightly.



Didn't realise i was putting anyone down, just asking a question more so?

Scotty


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## NickB

'glorified BIAB' was the term that highlighted it to me... However, like everything I ever say, just an opinion!

Realistically, a 200L batch is not much different to the 50 odd L I brew every couple of weeks. It will be slightly variable, but in reality, what proper craft brewery doesn't have some variation, either seasonal or every batch!

Not trying to be a hater ///....



EDIT: Personally, I think of the Braumiester as more BIAB with HERMS than a 'true BIAB'


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## BOG

Attached is a document from a vendor in the US you might find useful.

I suggest you farm out production for the first couple of batches until you get the product tried and tested then move the reciepe to your own equipment.
This will allow you to establish you own brand and get consistency without having to also deal with leaning the performence of a new system.



Good Luck


BOG 

View attachment PubTechDescription_1_.pdf


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## ///

NickB said:


> 'glorified BIAB' was the term that highlighted it to me... However, like everything I ever say, just an opinion!
> 
> Realistically, a 200L batch is not much different to the 50 odd L I brew every couple of weeks. It will be slightly variable, but in reality, what proper craft brewery doesn't have some variation, either seasonal or every batch!
> 
> Not trying to be a hater ///....
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Personally, I think of the Braumiester as more BIAB with HERMS than a 'true BIAB'



Oh, I forgot to not press the BIAB sensitivity button  . Far from a hater of any system, and not wanting to cause an international incident and derailing the thread by any comments on the method, so lets leave things right there ey'.

I priced out doing a 200l system using the Blichmann kit and it was about $4.5k for the brewhouse and another $1500 for 3 x 400l FV's for our test brewery. High Gravity brewing means you can do between 250l and 350l of cast wort (gravity depending) per batch ... hard thing though is managing cast wort temperature and fermentation temp (without a dedicated fermentation room).

The Blichman false bottoms and good milling gives beautiful clear worts as well ...

Scotty


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## NickB

Sorry Scott, you've mistaken me for a BIABer. Hard to believe, I know, but I have a 3V HERMS. 

Anyway, didn't mean to offend, just seemed a harsh comment in the scheme of things...!



Cheers and beers


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## ///

BOG said:


> Attached is a document from a vendor in the US you might find useful.
> 
> I suggest you farm out production for the first couple of batches until you get the product tried and tested then move the reciepe to your own equipment.
> This will allow you to establish you own brand and get consistency without having to also deal with leaning the performence of a new system.
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> 
> BOG



Sorry,I disagree with this advise entirely. If you want or need to outsource production your options are limited no matter where you are in Australia, and the work involved when shifting brew houses is significant. I've brewed at 6 sites, currently across 3 sites and it is a bloody tough job ensuring stability of production and consistency at just 1 site let alone moving production.

Whilst we are dropping names I'd contact DME, IDD, Wachland, Farra, Microdat, AAA Stainless. All will far exceed the budget for what you can build yourself at this size.

Scotty


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## Wimmig

/// said:


> Oh, I forgot to not press the BIAB sensitivity button  . Far from a hater of any system, and not wanting to cause an international incident and derailing the thread by any comments on the method, so lets leave things right there ey'.
> 
> I priced out doing a 200l system using the Blichmann kit and it was about $4.5k for the brewhouse and another $1500 for 3 x 400l FV's for our test brewery. High Gravity brewing means you can do between 250l and 350l of cast wort (gravity depending) per batch ... hard thing though is managing cast wort temperature and fermentation temp (without a dedicated fermentation room).
> 
> The Blichman false bottoms and good milling gives beautiful clear worts as well ...
> 
> Scotty



Fermentation temps are easy to maintain with conicals with built in heating / cooling systems. They are hardly "crazy" expensive.


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## Batz

byrnesy50 said:


> you may have to come down from QLD and be a guest brewer.. We can call it the Batz Odyssey Ale!!




Be happy too do that, you might like my Far Kin Lager?

batz


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## reg

Whats a 200 litre Braumeister worth?


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## MastersBrewery

/// said:


> Oh, I forgot to not press the BIAB sensitivity button  . Far from a hater of any system, and not wanting to cause an international incident and derailing the thread by any comments on the method, so lets leave things right there ey'.
> 
> I priced out doing a 200l system using the Blichmann kit and it was about $4.5k for the brewhouse and another $1500 for 3 x 400l FV's for our test brewery. High Gravity brewing means you can do between 250l and 350l of cast wort (gravity depending) per batch ... hard thing though is managing cast wort temperature and fermentation temp (without a dedicated fermentation room).
> 
> The Blichman false bottoms and good milling gives beautiful clear worts as well ...
> 
> Scotty



The biggest bilchman kettle I've seen here is 208L how yer getting 250-350L of wort outa that?


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## mxd

MastersBrewery said:


> The biggest bilchman kettle I've seen here is 208L how yer getting 250-350L of wort outa that?




high gravity then add water.


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## eamonnfoley

I think having a nano brewery supporting a bigger venture like a taphouse is a great idea. Puts little pressure on the brewery to produce, and if the house tap is empty, there is plenty of other good beer available.

The braumeister will produce pretty consistent wort. 

Are the liquor licensing people ok with something like a braumeister? Havent seen this sort of thing (pubs brewing part time on nano systems) done before in Australia.


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## manticle

Stephenkentucky (username) was producing small quantities of commercial beer recently using a 200L BM if I remember correctly.


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## Siborg

reg said:


> Whats a 200 litre Braumeister worth?


I reckon they'd be in the 10-15k range from memory.

Would be a good option IMO for a venue such as this. Would definitely love to check it out if I ever head over that side of the bay. Might even have to make it a point to go over there.


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## ///

Wimmig said:


> Fermentation temps are easy to maintain with conicals with built in heating / cooling systems. They are hardly "crazy" expensive.



Last quote I got was about $3k for decent ones with decent CIP and jackets minus freight or the glycol system. For the price of a few of those you can buy a cool room or chilled shipping container?

Scotty


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## CONNOR BREWARE

manticle said:


> Stephenkentucky (username) was producing small quantities of commercial beer recently using a 200L BM if I remember correctly.


was this the bloke who last year put his sit link here with old guy in a chair on front. funny site from memory. he was using a 200l brumeister


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## husky

/// said:


> Last quote I got was about $3k for decent ones with decent CIP and jackets minus freight or the glycol system. For the price of a few of those you can buy a cool room or chilled shipping container?
> 
> Scotty




Then they're all at the same temp, individual jackets will give flexibility to have different fermentation temps for different brews. Unless youre always fermenting the same brew at any one time.
3K sounds cheap for 400Lish dimple plate cooled fermenters.


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## Superoo

Roy at RWOC in perth had a sec hand 200L breumiester for sale recently. He was using it to make wort kits for a while. 

Might stoll be there for sale.


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## Wimmig

/// said:


> Last quote I got was about $3k for decent ones with decent CIP and jackets minus freight or the glycol system. For the price of a few of those you can buy a cool room or chilled shipping container?
> 
> Scotty



Seems like good value to me. Though the ones i am thinking of are fridge wrap units, not glycol systems. They could be run at whatever you want, are free standing and provide flexibility. For a small venue, seems like a good idea to me.


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## tanukibrewer

reg said:


> Whats a 200 litre Braumeister worth?




Rang the West Oz dealer today,15k for the 200L.


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## themonkeysback

manticle said:


> Stephenkentucky (username) was producing small quantities of commercial beer recently using a 200L BM if I remember correctly.



I am pretty sure he is only using a 50L BM.


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## punkin

themonkeysback said:


> I am pretty sure he is only using a 50L BM.



Yes he has a 50l system. Makes good beer though, i was there a couple of weeks ago. B)


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## husky

Slightly OT but when brewries talk of say a 10 HL system, does that refer to the maximum final volume of beer able to be produced(ie volume into fermenter or bright beer tanks) or the maximum volume of the kettle or something else?


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## razz

That is the "brew length" Husky. Final volume.


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## Superoo

Sorry, i meant Roy at TWOC (not rwoc) had a 200 l bm for sale sec hand.


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## manticle

themonkeysback said:


> I am pretty sure he is only using a 50L BM.



I guess I remembered incorrectly then. Oh well.


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## The Mexican

foles said:


> I think having a nano brewery supporting a bigger venture like a taphouse is a great idea. Puts little pressure on the brewery to produce, and if the house tap is empty, there is plenty of other good beer available.
> 
> The braumeister will produce pretty consistent wort.
> 
> Are the liquor licensing people ok with something like a braumeister? Havent seen this sort of thing (pubs brewing part time on nano systems) done before in Australia.




The Buffalo Brewery was brewing in a bath at one stage if I remember correctly & they were kosher & picked up awards..............


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## Pagani

Hi mate, how did you end up going with your brewery did you get there in the end?


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