# Crown 40 Litre Water Urn



## nala (30/1/11)

I have a Crown 40 Ltr water urn, concealed element - on order - delivery next week.
In my anxiety to get some information into my brewing software, I looked at the specification of the boiler :

Diameter --- 34 cms

Height------ 58 cms

I put these numbers into the BIAB caculator to check that the volume is as stated (40 ltrs) the caculator tells me
the urn when full will hold 50 ltrs.

I am pleased with this information - if it is correct - so that I find that with additional headspace I can avoid boilovers !

Does anyone have any advice on how best to use the Crown boiler :

a) Marking off the volumes via the sight glass

B) Controlling a rolling boil via the thermostat

c) Keep the existing tap or change to ball valve

d) Using false bottom or not for BIAB

e) Lagging the outside with insullation

f) Using supplementary floating lid to cover 80% of the surface whilst boiling

g) Using a dip tube to avoid too much dead space at the bottom

any other usefull information that I have'nt mentioned.

Thanks in anticipation.


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## jasonharley (30/1/11)

nala said:


> I have a Crown 40 Ltr water urn, concealed element - on order - delivery next week.
> In my anxiety to get some information into my brewing software, I looked at the specification of the boiler :
> 
> Diameter --- 34 cms
> ...




It is very hard to get a rolling boil on a 40L crown urn with a concealed element. You need to keep the lid half on and have the setting on max ..... I am not comfortable with this because it inhibits some of the volatiles from escaping


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## chadjaja (30/1/11)

The height is the height of the urn I believe not the height of available space inside. The element and wiring underneath take up the extra space of course.

Cut up a cheap reject shop camping mat and attach it with some occy straps so you can take it off should you choose to chill in the urn. That certainly helps with keeping a good boil.


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## MarkBastard (30/1/11)

a) Marking off the volumes via the sight glass
- Yes, do this. I used a 2L jug and added 2L at a time and market it off every 2L.

B) Controlling a rolling boil via the thermostat
- Thermostat doesn't work that way. Just put it on 110 and you'll get a rolling boil.

c) Keep the existing tap or change to ball valve
- The existing tap is great. If you use the recommend silicone hose it slips right on and is secure enough.

d) Using false bottom or not for BIAB
- Up to you. I don't.

e) Lagging the outside with insullation
- This is recommended to help the mashing stage. May also help with the boil too. I used a cheap $5 rubber mat.

f) Using supplementary floating lid to cover 80% of the surface whilst boiling
- Why would you want to? I get a vigerous boil without doing this.

g) Using a dip tube to avoid too much dead space at the bottom
- I just carefully tilt the boiler forward like you'd do with a normal fermenter if I want to get more wort out. Heaps easy to do.

any other usefull information that I have'nt mentioned.
- Feel free to ask me any questions you have.


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## MarkBastard (30/1/11)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> It is very hard to get a rolling boil on a 40L crown urn with a concealed element. You need to keep the lid half on and have the setting on max ..... I am not comfortable with this because it inhibits some of the volatiles from escaping



I've never had this issue. I always boil with the lid fully off.


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## leiothrix (30/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> a) Marking off the volumes via the sight glass
> - Yes, do this. I used a 2L jug and added 2L at a time and market it off every 2L.



Just make sure to calibrate your jug with some scales first! The jugs that I have (pyrex) tend to have the markings as a 'rough guide' more than anything else.

Rob.


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## MarkBastard (30/1/11)

Yeah fair call, I wasn't that concerned though because I used the same jug to mark my fermenters, and I'm brewing with volume into fermenter in mind, so it works for me.

The sight glass on the Crown isn't that accurate, it's a bit thin and you have to flick air bubbles out of it if you want a really accurate reading. I'd only use it to be accurate to 250ml or so.


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## robv (30/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I've never had this issue. I always boil with the lid fully off.



+1 I get a good rolling boil with no lid on


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## jackson (30/1/11)

I also have the crown 40l concealed element urn and from new I had trouble getting a nice rolling boil even with insulation & lid half on. So I preformed the boil dry bypass mod which made it boil fantastically. However I blew it up after approx 6-8 brews and had to get it repaired :angry: I did a BIAB for the first time since the repair this weekend & the boil was great even without the mod. So I think its the luck of the draw if you get a good urn(thermal overload switch)?


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## jasonharley (30/1/11)

yeah ... well I have it on 105 deg and barely get a rolling boil with half the lid on .... luck of draw I guess. I don't put it on 110 becuae I am worried that I will burn out the element


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## Ross (30/1/11)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> yeah ... well I have it on 105 deg and barely get a rolling boil with half the lid on .... luck of draw I guess. I don't put it on 110 becuae I am worried that I will burn out the element




Sorry but I find that a strange statement - The unit allows you to set to 110 & is fully warranted, so why run it not on full power & then complain it doesn't give you the performance you want :huh: 

cheers Ross


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## jasonharley (30/1/11)

Ross said:


> Sorry but I find that a strange statement - The unit allows you to set to 110 & is fully warranted, so why run it not on full power & then complain it doesn't give you the performance you want :huh:
> 
> cheers Ross



I remember reading a thread I couple of weeks ago that someone burnt out their crown by running it long durations at 110 deg .... so you reckon it will be fine to run it fully cranked at 110 deg for 90 mins?

cheers
5 eyes


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## Ross (30/1/11)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> I remember reading a thread I couple of weeks ago that someone burnt out their crown by running it long durations at 110 deg .... so you reckon it will be fine to run it fully cranked at 110 deg for 90 mins?
> 
> cheers
> 5 eyes



Absolutely....  

cheers Ross


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## Bribie G (31/1/11)

They hold 40L not a drop more or less. I have my sight tube marked at 33L which is perfect strike liquor for a 5 k grain bill for a one hour boil. If doing more, I up the level by a couple of litres per kilo - rule of thumb but gets me there. 







In any case I aim for this eventual boil level and that gives me a 23L cube plus a litre of end-wort to clear out for a starter. Edit please note that the curvature of the urn can exaggerate reflection of beer bellies  







I hadn't actually looked inside a concealed element model till last week and see that its identical to my exposed element except that the element is hidden under a little "cowl" and I can't see why that would fail to give a good boil as the heat has to come out anyway, and can only surmise that those people with poor boil have a unit with a perhaps too trippy thermostat. Mine goes like the clappers on 105 and I usually run it at 100.


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## BobtheBrewer (31/1/11)

I too have no problems keeping a rolling boil in a 40 litre Crown urn. To answer your questions
a. I bought a 600cm steel ruler, and because the urn has that bump in the middle, found that the first 6 litres measured 78cm, and every litre after that 11 cm. 
b. Agree with Mark
c. Up to you, but once you get that silicone hose on it will be for life.
d. Why, you have a concealed element and it isn't going to burn your bag
e. Definitely, a camping mat is ideal.
f. No, you will get a vigorous boil but will not boil off all the water that you need to.
g. Whirpool.

I suggest that you do a good measure of the inside of your urn. Few if any are really round. My diameter is 33.7cm.


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## MarkBastard (31/1/11)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> yeah ... well I have it on 105 deg and barely get a rolling boil with half the lid on .... luck of draw I guess. I don't put it on 110 becuae I am worried that I will burn out the element



Hahahahahahahaha

Dear lord.


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## Bribie G (31/1/11)

You called, my Son?


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## MarkBastard (31/1/11)

Bribie I didn't want to take my Ferrari out of first gear because I didn't want to over-tax the engine, anyway that's beside the point, why the f%# isn't my ferrari doing the advertised top speeds??????????????


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## jasonharley (31/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Hahahahahahahaha
> 
> Dear lord.




where is that shoulder to cry on ????????


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## frog-inasock (26/2/11)

Hi,

Just used a brand new crown 40L urn with an exposed element to do BIAB for the first time (previously 3V with gas fired kettle).
During the boil with the dial set to 110C (30L wort initially) the element was on all the time (I watched it like a hawk, so I know the boil dry didnt activate, and from my understanding it shouldnt with an exposed element), but it barely held a simmer, no where near a rolling boil.

3/4 covering with a lid gave a rolling boil, but only just. Nothing like a 3 ring cast iron burner can do.

Any ideas why some have vigourous boils with the lid completely off and the one I have gives only a whimper?

Maybe the supply to my house isnt as juiced as some?

Maybe I've got a 1500W element installed by mistake (like the 10L crown has)???

cheers.


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## frog-inasock (26/2/11)

Sorry I apologise for my statement:
"Maybe I've got a 1500W element installed by mistake (like the 10L crown has)???
"

Irresponsible of me to say that as there is nothing to indicate that is the case.


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## saintbanger (19/6/11)

Hey guys

Got a bit of a problem here with my Urn. Did my first BIAB on Friday, all went well got a great rolling boil setting at 110. Actually boiled of more wort than I had intented. Doing another to day to pop in a cube for a later date. I can't get the thing to come to a boil at all. It's hitting about 92C then I can here it cut out. The light stays on but you can here the switch tripping and the heating stops. Have read plenty about the Mod you can perform but after no.1 thought I had myself a good one. What can I do now seeing as I have 30L of wort in there that I can't get to a boil at all? 

Have just tried switching it all off for 10 minutes going out now to turn her back on and see what happens.

Cheers

Dave


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## saintbanger (19/6/11)

Well I ended up draining the urn in batches and boiling it in pots on the stove. Royal pain in the arse, just kept cutting out before even getting near a boil. Cleaned it out and going to the mod on it tomorrow. 

Has any one who has done the mod left the base off to try and keep the temp of the element down a little to stop it cooking itself? After the first AG on Friday I loved it, now I can't stand the thing.


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## insane_rosenberg (19/6/11)

My boil dry tripped out with a high gravity batch I did one day, so I did the mod. I know I should reconnect the switch... probably will before my next batch. Will be rather annoyed uf it trips on normal grav boils now!


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## Brewman_ (19/6/11)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> I remember reading a thread I couple of weeks ago that someone burnt out their crown by running it long durations at 110 deg .... so you reckon it will be fine to run it fully cranked at 110 deg for 90 mins?
> 
> cheers
> 5 eyes




Follow every quote you read here and you will be in a sorry state. And.. under utilising your equipment.



If you can't get a rolling boil going for 90 minutes, it ain't worth having, so crank it up, make beer, or blow it up and move on, after claiming warranty.

Fear_n_Loath


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## heavy-d (19/6/11)

saintbanger said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Got a bit of a problem here with my Urn. Did my first BIAB on Friday, all went well got a great rolling boil setting at 110. Actually boiled of more wort than I had intented. Doing another to day to pop in a cube for a later date. I can't get the thing to come to a boil at all. It's hitting about 92C then I can here it cut out. The light stays on but you can here the switch tripping and the heating stops. Have read plenty about the Mod you can perform but after no.1 thought I had myself a good one. What can I do now seeing as I have 30L of wort in there that I can't get to a boil at all?
> 
> ...



I have the same issue when the mash crud starts to bake onto the element(occasionally), a quick scrape with my brew spoon and it fires up again. 
Not a huge issue, just a pain.


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## Brewman_ (19/6/11)

heavy-d said:


> I have the same issue when the mash crud starts to bake onto the element(occasionally), a quick scrape with my brew spoon and it fires up again.
> Not a huge issue, just a pain.




Hi Heavy-d,


I assume that your urn has the exposed element? Are you saying that when the crud gets stuck on it you need to scrape it off to keep the rolling boil going, and prevent the cut out of power to the element? 

Thanks
Fear_n_Loath


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## Bribie G (19/6/11)

I had a similar problem with my Birko and took it into the Agent in Brisbane. It worked fine for them (the bugger) but they suggested it could be the thermostat needing replacing so bring it in if it happens again. In your case I'd look at getting it fixed under warranty. Maybe you could try cranking the thermostat from zero to full on then zero etc a few times and see if that 'unsticks' whatever the problem is. I run my other one, the crown, at 110 and never move the dial, and it's going perfectly after a year and a bit.


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## Rodolphe01 (20/6/11)

A little while ago I had a woeful brew day with my exposed element crown when trying to do a stepped mash, didn't circulate the wort enough had massive caramelisation on the element. It came to the boil, I added my hops, then the boil died and it never came back up, thermostat (I assume) kept cutting it out... It was a school night and already about 11pm by this stage so I ended up draining the urn into a fermenter and sealing it up (think cubed) and filled urn with water to soak the shit off, then next day scrubbed the life out of it, put my 'cubed par boiled wort' back in and proceeded as normal... had to guess a bit as i had already done my first hop addition before the disaster. IBUs ended up OK, but the beer was shit, I think HSA was an issue perhaps transfering the beer in and out of the urn while ~95 degrees (i could of used the urn tap, but it had blocked with hop flowers!). worst brew day ever. I nearly threw the whole damn urn in the bin.


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## ianh (20/6/11)

saintbanger said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Got a bit of a problem here with my Urn. Did my first BIAB on Friday, all went well got a great rolling boil setting at 110. Actually boiled of more wort than I had intented. Doing another to day to pop in a cube for a later date. I can't get the thing to come to a boil at all. It's hitting about 92C then I can here it cut out. The light stays on but you can here the switch tripping and the heating stops. Have read plenty about the Mod you can perform but after no.1 thought I had myself a good one. What can I do now seeing as I have 30L of wort in there that I can't get to a boil at all?
> 
> ...



Hi Dave

Had a similar problem with my Crown Urn. What I found was that during the mash, particles settle on the element cover at the bottom of the urn. I found that if I give the area a bit of a scrape with my paint stirrer it goes without tripping.

Brew with urn problem only managed 1.9 litres/hour boil off due to element cutting in and out. Giving it a scrape now manage 3 - 3.4 litres/hour boil off and element does not cut out.

cheers

Ian


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## saintbanger (20/6/11)

Thanks Guys

Forgot to mention it was a concealed element, the only place it was covered in crud was the slightly raised element cover. Am going to do a quick test boil this morning, then try again. Was a dark beer yesterday son not sure when I started to get the build up. Will give your trick a go Ian. Just hope I don't get stuck with an urn full of wort that I can't boil again. Am lucky that Crown is just up the road so I can run it back there and get them to test it if it is still no good today. My first BIAB is ticking over nicely in the fermenting fridge. Feel like I have the patience of my first few brews and can't wait to get it in the keg and see what it tastes like. 

Thanks again, will report back with todays procedings, gotta love TAFE holidays

Dave


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## heavy-d (22/6/11)

fear_n_loath said:


> Hi Heavy-d,
> 
> 
> I assume that your urn has the exposed element? Are you saying that when the crud gets stuck on it you need to scrape it off to keep the rolling boil going, and prevent the cut out of power to the element?
> ...



I have a concealed element. I assume the dry boil protection kicks in and turns off the element when there is crud baked onto the element cover.
As Ian H says a quick scrape and it doesnt cut out.
Cheers.


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## saintbanger (22/6/11)

Spoke to Ross at CB

He said exactly the same thing, checked my element cover out before I called him and indeed it was the only place with baked on crud. Gave it a good clean did a test boil and no probs so far. About to do another beer right now so fingers crossed it stays clear enough, if not will try the scrap technique

Dave


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## seamad (22/6/11)

I have a concealed element crown and had problems with cutting out too. After removing cut out switch burnt out element. Last boil petered out at 80 minutes ( new element with cut out rewired). Quich rub with mixing spoon and fired up again. Would not advise to remove cut out switch as would probably burnt out 2nd element.

cheers
sean


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## Parks (22/6/11)

Birkdale Bob said:


> a. I bought a 600cm steel ruler, and because the urn has that bump in the middle, found that the first 6 litres measured 78cm, and every litre after that 11 cm.


Man, your 40L urn must be a little bigger than mine :blink:


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## thylacine (22/6/11)

Parks said:


> Man, your 40L urn must be a little bigger than mine :blink:
> 
> Details below pasted from an AHB member who was performing (and posting) calculations for individuals who supplied their kettle measurements.
> 
> ...


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## Parks (22/6/11)

thylacine said:


> Details below pasted from an AHB member who was performing (and posting) calculations for individuals who supplied their kettle measurements.
> e.g. 10 105 = 10L @ 105mm



Sorry, you missed my little attack at using cm instead of mm


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## ianh (22/6/11)

saintbanger said:


> Spoke to Ross at CB
> 
> He said exactly the same thing, checked my element cover out before I called him and indeed it was the only place with baked on crud. Gave it a good clean did a test boil and no probs so far. About to do another beer right now so fingers crossed it stays clear enough, if not will try the scrap technique
> 
> Dave



Hope the new beer goes well


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## cozmocracker (23/6/11)

I have a crown urn with a concealed element, i had no problems with rolling boil or it cutting out (i thought it could of been more vigorous ) but i have done the mod anyway, i have seen an improvement with the boil and have had no issues. i did the mod probally 2 years ago and to many brews to remember, knock on wood.


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## eclessia (6/11/11)

I bought a crown urn with a concealed element last week. I did my first BIAB batch in it on Tuesday and it worked great - very vigorous boil - i had do turn it down to 105 to stop it splashing.

So today I decided to do another batch and I'm having problems getting rolling boil - I have it set to 110 but it seems to cut out at around 98c, barely boiling. 

Does anyone know if there is a way to recalibrate the thermostat? I'd rather avoid doing the mod if I can. 

Cheers

Mat


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## leiothrix (6/11/11)

clean any crap off the element. A bit of PBW or napisan and let it boil for a few minutes, then scrape off.


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## Shifter (6/11/11)

The top of the concealed element cleans up really easy with a scourer type pad. Not brillo, those cheap green things from chickenfeed or similar.

Remember to lift of the thermostat sensor cover and clean it. It can harbour all sorts of crud. No problems with mine, a really good rolling boil. Just not sure on the calcs for measuring the water volume. My Urn is 337mm in dia - average.


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## eclessia (6/11/11)

leiothrix said:


> clean any crap off the element. A bit of PBW or napisan and let it boil for a few minutes, then scrape off.



Thanks Guys, 

I had cleaned it thoroughly after I used it last, but there must have been some crap stuck to the element after the mash. 

I gave it another decent scape with my paddle and that seems to have got her going again. 

I didn't know you could take the thermostat cover off - I'll make sure I get in the habit of cleaning it. 

Cheers

Mat


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## leiothrix (6/11/11)

Just note that there are two thermostats -- the long rod thingy under the cover, and the boil dry protector which is on the underside of the element. Everything has to be clean or one of them will stop the element.


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## Parks (6/11/11)

My super tip for cleaning the concealed element - vinegar. I only use mine for a HLT so the calcium builds up. No amount of napisan was getting it off so I spashed about 500ML of vinegar and 500ML of water in the bottom with a chux. 

Keep the chux super wet with the solution over the element. Every 30 min or whenever you think of it go back to your urn and give it a gentle wipe - starts coming off really easy and super shiny again


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## eclessia (6/11/11)

Cool thanks. How do you guys keep it clean during a boil? Just scrape it with a paddle? 

Out of interest how/when do you guys whirlpool? Do you stir from the edge or the center of the urn? How long etc?

I tried stirring like crazy after end of the boil and then left it for 10mins - but it seemed to have no effect. 

I'm not sure I made a whirlpool though - there was a definite cone in the center of the urn though.


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## 3GumsBrewing (8/6/12)

Hi all,
My crown urn died a horrible death about 12 mths ago, due to the boil modification.
Being out of warranty, I was stoked that a replacement element and installation instructions were avaialble for around $65 all up.
Thumbs up to crown, now I am back doing 20L batches, (have a 4 ring burner and 120L pot sitting idle at the moment!)
Cheers
DK


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## Bribie G (8/6/12)

Most acids work. A good one is a tub of Mckenzies citric acid from the icing sugars and baking powder shelves, a third of a tub in 250ml of hot water, scrub with a scotch brite, works a treat. Has the advantage that it doesn't leave a vinegary after taste.


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## Filfy (31/8/12)

Would anyone be as game as to try say CLR on it??


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## DU99 (31/8/12)

get some lemon's,quarter them put some water in the urn and boil for awhile.or use Citric Acid as per Bribies post


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## chrisso81 (31/8/12)

Great tip with the citric acid Bribie, works a treat!


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## JDW81 (31/8/12)

Filfy said:


> Would anyone be as game as to try say CLR on it??



I used CLR on a shitty old urn a few years ago and it took me hours to wash out the remnants. I'd stick to something less toxic.


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## Filfy (1/9/12)

Citric Acid it is then!


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## kevo (1/10/12)

Slight hijack...  

Picked up a couple of Birko urns last week, exposed elements, each with their pros & cons...

Pretty crudded up, so been soaking and cleaning with vinegar to clear the crud from the bottom.

As the gunk has come away, I've noticed this on the element of one - is this a coating coming away?





Should this be a concern? Planning to use the urn for BIAB - the element on the other urn seems fine.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Cheers in advance!

Kev


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