# Keg King ROBOBREW 35L SINGLE VESSEL BREWERY



## panzerd18

Any point in getting a Crown or Birko Urn, when this comes in at $449? Seriously tempting. Was surprised there was not already a post on this. 

More than half the price of a grainfather too.

$449


http://kegking.com.au/35l-all-in-one-single-vessel-brewery.html


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## panzerd18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KJzSAEIlpY


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## crowmanz

Only missing a pump and has an immersion chiller, compared to the grainfather.

But the price is pretty spot on. If i didnt have a DIY 1V or urn I would go for this.


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## Coodgee

how would it maintain the mash temperature though if it doesn't recirculate the wort and has no insulation? wouldn't it be hot on the bottom and cold on the top?


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## panzerd18

Coodgee said:


> how would it maintain the mash temperature though if it doesn't recirculate the wort and has no insulation? wouldn't it be hot on the bottom and cold on the top?


Because the malt is inside the malt pipe surrounded by water?


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## Yob

the thing that gets me about these, and no offense intended.. is the limiting size of the damn things.. theyre feckin tiny!!

I *NEED* to get 75L minimum from a brewday, 100 is better..

lucky I like to tinker and build shit is all I can say..

Looks like a good alternative though, we really are spoiled for choice these days :icon_chickcheers:


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## fcmcg

Hope the elements aren't like the stick elements


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## dropbear85

I've ordered one of these to have a play with. I reckon I could turn it into something very similar to a grainfather without too much trouble. 
pretty good price for what you get, just have to wait and see when it turns up


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## takai

Add the $79 pump and some hosing and you will have a Grainfather essentially. Look to be reasonable.


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## dropbear85

yeah I've already got the pump from my current 1v setup. I'm just going to grab some ss tube for the sparge arm and then I've just got to sort out the overflow. easiest thing to do would be cut a couple of half inch holes in the top of the malt basket and use a bag. that's what I've done with my current setup but I was thinking this one I might go for a telescoping pipe like the grain father


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## buckerooni

+1 for the size thing. I've outgrown my 40L urn and looking for something like this but around 80L+


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## Fylp

The first thing the fella says is that this is the first of a few they are bringing out. I guess there will also be a bigger size or two. Possibly a deluxe model


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## primusbrew

That price is attractive. $700 less than the grainfather and the only thing missing seems to be a pump. Of course there could be some big differences in build quality, durability etc. 

If someone gets one of these, I would be very appreciative of a review.


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## Coldspace

Hard to tell, but it does look a little flimsy compared to the grain father.


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## Elz

Bought one today ($449). Plan to use it as the vessel to move from from extract to all grain. As a means of cleaning, put it through some basic steps, 40C, 50C, 65C, 75c and boil. All temps same as my two other thermometers. Appeared to reach temperature quickly, although not timed Feels sturdy enough, only drawback is reading the temperature gauge at floor level. 

Advised that the other new models includes one with a pump. i will buy a pump one later if required. Also advised new video should be out soon.
Cheers and heres to starting all grain (albiet after i use the robobrew for my next two extract which l have already purchased).
Elz


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## pcmfisher

Not sure about lifting 5 or 6kg of wet grain up in the basket and trying to get that trivet thing underneath by yourself.


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## SimoB

i'll stick to the grainfather. but I can see a lot of people going for the price point. heaaappps cheaper.


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## Diesel80

pcmfisher said:


> Not sure about lifting 5 or 6kg of wet grain up in the basket and trying to get that trivet thing underneath by yourself.


Nearly everyone here could lift an esky full of Ice and Beer, but mention wet grain and everyone seems to go to water!
Biceps FTW!

Cheers,
D80


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## takai

Looked at it today when i was down there. Seems reasonable, although the trivet would be a little fiddly with how the legs on it work. Would be easily replaceable with a IKEA stainless trivet though.

Oh yeah, it feels tiny.


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## Spiesy

takai said:


> Looked at it today when i was down there. Seems reasonable, although the trivet would be a little fiddly with how the legs on it work. Would be easily replaceable with a IKEA stainless trivet though.
> 
> Oh yeah, it feels tiny.


Is there any day that you're not "down there"?


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## Damn

How much without the wort chiller, also drop the malt pipe, they could get this below the price of a crown urn? Being Aussie, they should of known to make them options. Exciting times ahead, I'm waiting for someone to beef up the German jam maker.


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## takai

Spiesy said:


> Is there any day that you're not "down there"?


Lol, i have to drive past regularly for work. Plus they were the closest place with camlock seals in stock.


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## Fylp

pcmfisher said:


> Not sure about lifting 5 or 6kg of wet grain up in the basket and trying to get that trivet thing underneath by yourself.


A lot of us I guess do that with a bag of grain anyway.


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## Drick

Hi Folks, just been on to Keg King and they're working on a 60L version which we should see in the near future.


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## takai

Fylp said:


> A lot of us I guess do that with a bag of grain anyway.


Yeah, the weight isnt the issue. The trivet has little posts that centre it around the top of the urn and then other little posts that centre the pipe. That sort of thing just gets fiddly when you are lifting/holding 6-8kg of wet grain one handed. A flat trivet is much easier here where you can just put it under and if its off centre you can shift it later.


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## kaiserben

Looks great for the price. 

Me and my mates bought a Grainfather together (and love it). We've been wanting to get another. We might get one of these instead and then modify it to be more like the GF. 

A couple of issues (easily solved) with this KK one:

I don't agree (with the KK video) that recirc isn't important at this volume. From experience using the GF I know for sure that it is - and, if not recircing, temps at the bottom near the element can be very different than temps at the top of the grain bed. I'd definitely modify this KK model to include recirc. (Not recircing can also cause scorching near the element particularly in grain bills including rye etc. I know from due to my own stupid mistakes and forgetfulness). 
Also that immersion chiller would be rubbish (residual heat in the stainless steel would make chilling it a long, tedious process. I'd solve that by either buying a counterflow chiller or no-chill. 
Other than that it looks good. And the fact they're bringing out bigger volume versions is great! 

Can anyone who has bought one tell me what controller it uses? 

EDIT: Also, wouldn't that controller get too hot?


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## Alex.Tas

kaiserben said:


> Also that immersion chiller would be rubbish (residual heat in the stainless steel would make chilling it a long, tedious process. I'd solve that by either buying a counterflow chiller or no-chill.


I've got a stainless IC and it works well. It doesn't work as quickly as a copper one of similar length does, but that doesn't mean it is an inferior product.

You are right about a pump though for mash temps. I reckon a pump would make the chilling efficiency much better too by recirculating the wort whilst chilling.


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## indica86

panzerd18 said:


> Any point in getting a Crown or Birko Urn, when this comes in at $449? Seriously tempting. Was surprised there was not already a post on this.


Yep, I don't want a chiller or a pipe.
I like the BIAB and the no chill.

I also regularly boil 35 litres so how will have this little urn help?


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## kaiserben

Alex.Tas said:


> I've got a stainless IC and it works well. It doesn't work as quickly as a copper one of similar length does, but that doesn't mean it is an inferior product.
> 
> You are right about a pump though for mash temps. I reckon a pump would make the chilling efficiency much better too by recirculating the wort whilst chilling.


I think the bigger difference is between IC and CFC rather than copper or stainless. (admittedly I've never used an IC) 

One common GF mistake (I've done it myself) sees people rercircing through their counterflow chiller back into the GF. It's inefficient and a waste of time and water. You're basically chilling your wort only to have it heat back up again. Residual heat in the stainless/kettle makes it worse. (the only reason you'd chill back into the GF is a quick 5 mins to get the pump filter working at it's best and/or if you want to do a hop stand at a particular temp).


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## panzerd18

indica86 said:


> Yep, I don't want a chiller or a pipe.
> I like the BIAB and the no chill.
> 
> I also regularly boil 35 litres so how will have this little urn help?


I forgot the Crown Urn is 40 litres.


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## dropbear85

Robobrew arrived yesterday, got to say it looks like a good bit of kit for the price. I filled it with water and played around with the controller and it does everything it's supposed to. No instructions were included but I probably wouldn't have read them anyway. setting temps was pretty straight forward and it scrolls through numbers really quick, a lot faster than an stc1000. 

looking forward to using with a pump but I am going to try as it was designed (without the pump) first to see how it goes.
when I add the pump I'll just throw a grain bag in to allow the wort to overflow the malt pipe but keep the grain under control. 

size wise I reckon it will be fine for single batches and as I keg my batches are generally less than 20l anyway. 

just wish these came out a few years ago before I spent all that money on my other ebiab setups


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## Elz

Instructions are on the web site
http://cdn.kegking.com.au/Downloads/Robobrew35LInstructions.pdf
Or one page back

http://kegking.com.au/35l-all-in-one-single-vessel-brewery.html

A little basic but runs through the brewing process
Cheers
Elz


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## dropbear85

yeah like I said it's pretty straight forward. I think the instructions are more aimed at a first time all-grainer. 
saying that I think that is the target market considering its size


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## cliffo

Looks like I'll be getting back in to brewing much sooner than I expected.

Coming from a 50L Brau this seems to be a great bang for your buck system.

Was always planning to move to a smaller system and brew different beers more often.

At this price point, whilst it certainly isn't a Braumeister, it has me thinking about my options.

Keen to hear people's experiences with this system.


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## HBHB

panzerd18 said:


> I forgot the Crown Urn is 40 litres.


And a 2 year warranty and electrical compliance for Australia.


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## pist

Add a kaixin pump and some silicone hose/fittings for some recirculation , and you still come in well under the price of a grandfather. Immersion chiller wouldn't be that efficient but i guess thats a trade off you could live with at this price


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## dropbear85

anyone here own a grainfather? I am looking at turning my robobrew into one and wanted to get some dimensions. I'm looking for the outside diameter of the lower part of the overflow pipe and the inside diameter of the top part of the overflow. also how does the top part telescope? On the GF website you can buy the top part for $25. am I right to assume it's the little clips on the bottom that give it a little bit of friction?

I also gave the robo its first run yesterday. went pretty well but there are a few opportunities for improvement. I'll do a full write up sometime this week


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## goatus

What kind of efficiency are people getting on these things without recirc?


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## dropbear85

I got 20l at 1.048 into the fermenter from a 5kg grain bill. not sure what that works out to be. 
I also recirculated using a jug every 20 min. also mashed for 90min


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## dropbear85

it was my first run so after playing with the crush you could probably do better


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## sp0rk

dropbear85 said:


> I got 20l at 1.048 into the fermenter from a 5kg grain bill. not sure what that works out to be.
> I also recirculated using a jug every 20 min. also mashed for 90min


Sounds like about 70% efficiency


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## del1975

dropbear85 said:


> I got 20l at 1.048 into the fermenter from a 5kg grain bill. not sure what that works out to be.
> I also recirculated using a jug every 20 min. also mashed for 90min


How much water were you recirculating each time?


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## dropbear85

probably not enough. I didn't want to sit there all mash sparging so probably only 3-4 liters each time. I will be adding a pump but I thought I would give it a go the way that it was designed to see how it went.


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## Elz

Have you thought about how you plan to use the pump? For instance are you going to introduce a top screen or use another method? I have purchased a unit also and would be interested in an operational method. 

I thought just running the hose to the top of the grain bed via a control valve to manage the flow of wort. I would guess the flow would be quite slow so the grains do not end up in the kettle.

Cheers

Elz


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## dropbear85

I have a system similar to QldKevs and after a few runs I found that it worked better using a biab bag and having two 1/2 inch holes at the very top of the malt pipe for overflow. That way you can run the pump full throttle and walk away. the down size is you still have to hose out a bag at the end of the day.

For the robobrew I am still tossing up if i should go top plate and overflow pipe or no top filter and use a bazooka screen on top. I think I might try the bazooka and see how it goes, if im not happy ill put together a filter plate. The only thing that im a little iffie about with the bazooka and no top plate keeping the grain down is there will be some disturbance to the top of the grain bed from the return. it really isn't an issue and thats what happens with my other system but it does look nice on the grainfather having that inch of nice clear wort above the filter.

Damn I like to over-complicate things. :chug:


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## Bob_Loblaw

I'm just about to pull the trigger on one of these. A brew shop near me has them in stock, and it seems like such a good deal. Any more feedback from people who have used them?


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## enoch

Could try something like this instead of a top plate:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/image/9402-elaborate-return-arrangement/
Does need a bypass spear up the middle but works for me.



Elz said:


> Have you thought about how you plan to use the pump? For instance are you going to introduce a top screen or use another method? I have purchased a unit also and would be interested in an operational method.
> 
> I thought just running the hose to the top of the grain bed via a control valve to manage the flow of wort. I would guess the flow would be quite slow so the grains do not end up in the kettle.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Elz


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## Eagleburger

My current pump program

0-30 min no pump. stir every 5 minute

30-60min, 5 pump- 10 rest. a stir before pump because... 

60-90 pump on. very little goes through the over flow even with the pump valve fully open.


I get better flow through the bed, clear wort and far less trub. I suspected that pumping too soon was leading to compaction before the proteins had been made soluble/broken down.My top fed system doesnt have the potential to force the liquor through like a BM.


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## Elz

enoch said:


> Could try something like this instead of a top plate:
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/image/9402-elaborate-return-arrangement/
> Does need a bypass spear up the middle but works for me.


 Hi enoch
Thanks for the info, this idea will be my second port of call. First I will try a sieve and via a control valve slowly recirculate the wort. If this does not work I will give the above idea a whirl (little nervous about drilling a hole through the malt pipe).

Before turning to all grain I still have one extract brew to practice with. However the system has on the on whole worked fine. I'm using beersmith 2 and will download the Grainfather profile to see how it correspondes with Robobrew. Probably pretty close I reckon
Cheers
Elz


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## enoch

The bazooka hasn't had any wort down it in the first two brews as the false bottom arrangement has enough drainage to match the pump. It's there to set a maximum level if he mash sticks.
The whole project was to see if I could do a cheap and big version of my Grainfather. Most bits were recycled bar pots but $500 is plausible from new.


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## Bob_Loblaw

So I picked up a Robobrew on Saturday morning and just finished my very first all grain brew. It all went very well, and I was really impressed with this unit. All up my total brew time was just under 4.5hrs but I was really taking my time and making sure I got everything right so I'm pretty confident I could get it under 4hrs once I have a few more brews under my belt. I only had one mishap where my homemade hop spider fell in the brew during the boil, but I was able to fish it out with the mash paddle and it seems there is no harm done. My first brew was a Stone & Wood Pacific Ale clone - nice and easy with only one hop and late additions.

A few observations on the unit and the process:


As others have said, a magnetic drive pump and recirculation pipe will really complete this unit and make it just about "set and forget". It's strange Keg King didn't incorporate recirculation given they make and sell an affordable pump.
I did find some evidence of scorched grain on the bottom when cleaning the kettle, but I am certain this came from over-milled grain that fell through the holes in the malt pipe. Whether it will have any effect on the taste I don't know - time will tell.

I used the 500W element to maintain 63deg for the mash, and recirculated manually every time I saw the element come on. Roughly 4 litres each time and I poured it gently over a slotted spoon to sprinkle it over the surface.


I used about 15L for sparge by heating it in my 15L pot over the stove. I'm gonna need a bigger pot I think. I only got 19L from this brew.


The malt pipe is indeed difficult to lift up onto the trivet when loaded up with a mash. It's not the weight but the fact that you need to use one hand on the pipe and the other to position and hole the trivet in place. I have a pulley that I was using to hold a kayak in my garage so will set this up for future brews.


The unit heated up to the boil quite quickly (forgot to time it).


I was similarly impressed with the immersion chiller. From flame out I was able to get the wort down to 28deg in just under 40min but stirring it every few minutes. I then transferred to the f/v and let my fridge do the rest of the work.


Clean up was quite simple and I'm sure I can make it even quicker with a little more organisation next time.

Overall it was a great experience for my first AG brew. Sure, gone are the days where I can put a quick brew down on a weeknight, and I can definitely understand the notion that 35L might be too small for some (time spent vs amount of wort generated) but if I start my brew a little earlier I can still have some time left in my day.

I am absolutely stoked with this purchase, and I'm already planning a Feral Hop Hog clone for my next attempt. Next items to look for will be a pump, recirc pipe and a mill so that I can start buying grain in bulk and saving some of the hard earned cash I just spent on this rig.

Cheers


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## Dazzbrew

Good on you Bob. Cherry popped!


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## Drick

Hi Folks, nice little video here of the Robobrew in action.
https://www.facebook.com/CountryBrewerToormina/videos/960481704009321/


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## SBOB

Drick said:


> Hi Folks, nice little video here of the Robobrew in action.
> https://www.facebook.com/CountryBrewerToormina/videos/960481704009321/


that 'rolling boil' looked pretty pathetic (~8 min mark)


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## del1975

Hi Folks, nice little video here of the Robobrew in action.
https://www.facebook.com/CountryBrewerToormina/videos/960481704009321/[/quote

Thanks for posting. Have been looking for a video for a couple of weeks.


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## Drick

I agree, 103c is a gentle simmer at best. A rolling boil needs to produce a decent bulge in the surface.


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## SBOB

Drick said:


> I agree, 103c is a gentle simmer at best. A rolling boil needs to produce a decent bulge in the surface.


or any movement on the surface... that 'boil' looked like it wasnt even distrubing the surface


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## Elz

Have a look at this video as it gives a better picture of the boil

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=379ZjpmzYsQ

I found the 1900 watt element ample to sustain a good rolling boil. Using both elements was very vigorous and wasting power.
Cheers 
Elz


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## dropbear85

yeah mine has no problems holding a rolling boil. I filled it up with water to record what the boil looks like. it took 56min to go from 21deg to a rolling boil. about what you would expect from a 2400w element 
http://youtu.be/8_Q2oUVqiCE


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## cliffo

I think I've decided to take a punt on the RoboBrew to get myself back in to AG brewing at what seems like a very reasonable $ outlay.

Someone talk me out of it.

Go...


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## pokolbinguy

Looks like a cool little piece of gear.

I spent lots of time and $$ setting up my 3V system, which has been used only a hand full of times.

If only something simple and cost effective like this was available as an "off the shelf" option when I was setting up I would have jumped on it.

None the less, my current setups is not getting used and is better for larger volumes (40-50L) and when I prefer to have multiple beers on the run at a time a smaller setup would be handy.

Might splash out and grab one of these. Already have a march pump and plumbing to sort out a re-circ 

Pok


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## sluggerdog

Do they sell the malt pipe separately? I couldn't see it on the website.

I'm wondering if it would be a suitable malt pipe for a crown urn depending on dimensions.


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## pokolbinguy

Has anyone seen any of these in stock in HBS's in Newcastle?


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## SBOB

pokolbinguy said:


> Has anyone seen any of these in stock in HBS's in Newcastle?


I vaguely remember seeing either a unit or a poster for it at Country Brewer in East Maitland (but probably best to call them to check if I am being delusional or not)


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## quadbox

I'm vaguely considering the idea of getting one of these and just running a separate pump and return to add recirculation / sparge water. one of the cheapy $80 pumps with a ballvalve and hoses, put a male camlock to 1/2" bspf fitting on the ballvalve this comes with, and rig something up at the top of the malt pipe to take the liquor/wort return. 

Anyone got any thoughts about this? Motivation is it's still going to come in a good $600 less than the grainfather, as much as it's not as complete a unit if I ever decide to get a grainfather down the track I can use this as a temp controlled HLT


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## Elz

That's what I'm doing and reckon I am on a winner. To date no issues, albeit testing the system solely on extract brews. 

As you mentioned saved a fair wack of money compared to purchasing a Grainfather. 

However also purchased a Williamswarn too. A great investment also, which has not missed a beat and is turning out consistently good beers to boot!

I have yet to see photos or videos of a recirculating pump in action. It will be interesting to see what mods work most effectively 
Cheers 
Elz


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## Bob_Loblaw

What is the thought process on recirculating pumps? Coming from extract brewing I'm fairly new to this. My understanding so far is that:


You can feed a magnetic drive pump off the outlet of the Robo Brew and pump wort back to the top rather than doing it with a jug.
All you would need is a pump, some sections of hose, and something in the malt pipe to diffuse the wort being pumped back in so that it does not disturb the grain bed.
I assume this would be some sort of screen that sits on top of the grain and allows wort to seep up or down
Then there would only be the issue of overflow which the grainfather handles through a centre tube that drains back down to the bottom - how are people approaching this with the Robo Brew?

Does the above sound right? My initial thoughts are that I could plumb up a temporary pump setup and sort of clip the hose to the top of the malt pipe so that you can angle to flow across the top. Then create a screen using stainless steel or food grade plastic and some sort of mesh.

Anything I haven't thought of?


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## sting999au

Hey SBOB and Pokolbinguy, It's Crackle from Country Brewer at East Maitland. We unfortunately don't have the Robobrew in stock as yet. He have a backorder with Keg King and should hopefully have some soon.... Will update post when we get them. We have been told that the 65 litre version shouldn't be too far away either !!!! Cheers


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## bingggo

I have only tried BIAB for 5L small batch brews. While I like the look of this for bigger brews, would there be any problem (and solutions) in doing 5-10L brews in it as well?

I am also going to do the occasional 50L brew. I suppose if it's a light ale or something I could do a concentrated batch in this and dilute, and otherwise just do two batches...


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## Elz

Whilst it may not be problem, the dead space below the tap is 3lt
Cheers
Elz


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## jeremy

For those of you looking at recirc as an addition to this and are keen to do it on the cheap, don't disregard this little fella:

http://kegking.com.au/brewery-equipment/brewing/high-temp-micro-12v-direct-drive-brown-pump.html

I have one in my brewery and for $25 it has been doing the job for a couple of years now. Flow rate is well beyond what I need it for.


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## quadbox

Does anyone know what the actual volume of the maltpipe is? I wish to hell they'd just put technical drawings up 



Elz said:


> Whilst it may not be problem, the dead space below the tap is 3lt
> Cheers
> Elz


I'm imagining given it's a standard ballvalve it should be possible to retrofit a pickup tube and hopscreen down there...



Bob_Loblaw said:


> What is the thought process on recirculating pumps? Coming from extract brewing I'm fairly new to this. My understanding so far is that:
> 
> 
> You can feed a magnetic drive pump off the outlet of the Robo Brew and pump wort back to the top rather than doing it with a jug.
> All you would need is a pump, some sections of hose, and something in the malt pipe to diffuse the wort being pumped back in so that it does not disturb the grain bed.
> I assume this would be some sort of screen that sits on top of the grain and allows wort to seep up or down
> Then there would only be the issue of overflow which the grainfather handles through a centre tube that drains back down to the bottom - how are people approaching this with the Robo Brew?
> 
> Does the above sound right? My initial thoughts are that I could plumb up a temporary pump setup and sort of clip the hose to the top of the malt pipe so that you can angle to flow across the top. Then create a screen using stainless steel or food grade plastic and some sort of mesh.
> 
> Anything I haven't thought of?


You've got it in essense yet, though a screen's not really necessary. Overflow you'd handle just through flow control (you need a ballvalve on the outlet of the pump, and the pump kinda needs to be magnetic drive). Overflow's just about watching it


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## dropbear85

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Does anyone know what the actual volume of the maltpipe is? I wish to hell they'd just put technical drawings up
> 
> 
> I'm imagining given it's a standard ballvalve it should be possible to retrofit a pickup tube and hopscreen down there...
> 
> 
> You've got it in essense yet, though a screen's not really necessary. Overflow you'd handle just through flow control (you need a ballvalve on the outlet of the pump, and the pump kinda needs to be magnetic drive). Overflow's just about watching it


actually I don't think there is enough room for a hop screen or pickup tube. the malt pipe sits lower than the outlet and there isn't enough room between the urn and malt pie to fit much. I just use hop socks and tilt the pot at the end to get the last bit of wort. 
I'm thinking of putting a second ball valve a bit lower and on the side for my pump


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## bingggo

This may be a silly question, but I assume you could use this as you would a urn + voile bag setup? The instructions talk about sparging, but you could simply choose not to at the cost of some efficiency?

Also, has anyone tried no-chilling in the Robobrew and draining to fermenter the next day? I have done this in my pot on the stove with a snug lid and gladwrap to seal out air, and assume I could on this too - depending how much crap gathers on the bottom and gets through the tap.


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## pist

Why risk losing all that effort/time invested for the sake of not sanitizing a no chill cube? Takes little effort, pour some water in then add sanitizer, swish it around, empty, done. Never something I'd advocate, but each to their own


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## dropbear85

hey I did a little video of my brew session using the Robobrew with a pump. it works quite well but I accidentally selected my wrong equipment profile in Brewers friend and ended up with way too much water. seems my other system has more losses than this one and I ended up with 26l of wort at 1.044 instead of 22 at 1.054 so I guess it's going to be a session ale. 

My camera also ran out of space so the video was cut short but I thought I would upload it anyway as there were a few people interested in seeing the Robobrew running with a pump. 

IMHO for the price of these thing they are great value for money so if anyone was sitting on the fence I would say go for it 

http://youtu.be/K_fTD0ezZBM


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## Elz

Thanks dropbear for your video. The recirculating seems to work a treat. I also measured that the it holds 34 litres, not 35.
Cheers
Elz


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## sparkatron

It's interesting that you ended up with too much water because my two brews I've done so far have had fairly large loss.Both brews I've done, I aimed for 22L and ended up with around 19L. The gravity on both has been close to target so I'm not too fussed.

This is my first foray into all grain, so I figured it's just down to refinement over time.

PS. I'm using a pump. Set up is almost identical to yours.


----------



## dropbear85

sparkatron said:


> It's interesting that you ended up with too much water because my two brews I've done so far have had fairly large loss.Both brews I've done, I aimed for 22L and ended up with around 19L. The gravity on both has been close to target so I'm not too fussed.
> 
> This is my first foray into all grain, so I figured it's just down to refinement over time.
> 
> PS. I'm using a pump. Set up is almost identical to yours.


how big was your water and grain bill?


----------



## DU99

is the wort chiller anygood.


----------



## dropbear85

DU99 said:


> is the wort chiller anygood.


not really. I wouldn't be buying it for the chiller


----------



## ThatYodaGuy

How is the build on this? Is it poorly manufactured or likely to last a lifetime?


----------



## Barge

bingggo said:


> This may be a silly question, but I assume you could use this as you would a urn + voile bag setup? The instructions talk about sparging, but you could simply choose not to at the cost of some efficiency?
> 
> Also, has anyone tried no-chilling in the Robobrew and draining to fermenter the next day? I have done this in my pot on the stove with a snug lid and gladwrap to seal out air, and assume I could on this too - depending how much crap gathers on the bottom and gets through the tap.


Can't comment on the robobrew specifically but no-chilling in the kettle is fine.


----------



## sparkatron

dropbear85 said:


> how big was your water and grain bill?


5.4kg

My mash water was 18L and the sparge was 14L.


----------



## crowmanz

Barge said:


> Can't comment on the robobrew specifically but no-chilling in the kettle is fine.



Fine way to buckle an urn


----------



## Barge

crowmanz said:


> Fine way to buckle an urn


Why would it buckle. Put the lid on and wait for it to cool down. Works fine.


----------



## pist

Fine way to end up with a nice big batch of lawn food too


----------



## crowmanz

Barge said:


> Why would it buckle. Put the lid on and wait for it to cool down. Works fine.


AHB discussion

direct link to pictures


----------



## Barge

I didn't say anything about gladwrap. Just put the lid on. I know it sucks air but I've done this a few times without infection. Just lucky I guess.


----------



## crowmanz

bingggo said:


> Also, has anyone tried no-chilling in the Robobrew and draining to fermenter the next day? I have done this in my pot on the stove with a snug lid and *gladwrap* to seal out air, and assume I could on this too - depending how much crap gathers on the bottom and gets through the tap.





Barge said:


> I didn't say anything about gladwrap. Just put the lid on. I know it sucks air but I've done this a few times without infection. Just lucky I guess.


You didn't, but the OP who you replied to did.


----------



## Barge

crowmanz said:


> You didn't, but the OP who you replied to did.


 Missed that.

Yes, gladwrap to seal would be a terrible idea. No chill in cube is the preferred option. I have gone to do this more than once on a brew day only to find that the cube had mould in it. I just put the lid on the kettle (23L of wort) and let it cool down. Haven't had any infections but it's not a preferred/standard method of practice.


----------



## MichaelM

Would be interesting to compare the robobrew and GF in terms of quality and performance? Anyone had opportunity to use both?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I think the Robo Brew will probably never really compare to the Grainfather in terms of simplicity of setup, and set and forget operation. I've never used a Grainfather, but they really do look like a much easier option. All the thinking and planning has been done for you. But at roughly $600 cheaper after you fit recirc to the Robo Brew - you can't pass it up. The bloke at my LHBS reckons this is purely an introductory price from KK, and the next batch they release (including the bigger model) will be more $$. Probably still much cheaper than the Grainfather though.


----------



## ThatYodaGuy

Contacted KK, they couldn't give me a date for the release of the 65L, just said sometime next year. Also said the 65L will sell for "around $700".


----------



## paulyman

I'm interested to see the 65L version.


----------



## bingggo

I hear the 60L version will probably have a crane like attachment to pull the mash pipe up.

Does anyone have any tips for setting up Equipment and Mash Profiles in BeerSmith for the Robobrew?

What are views on running the brew like a BIAB (eg. full volume mash/boil) vs sparging it?


----------



## quadbox

It's not far off the dimensions of the grainfather, and the grainfather's got a profile in there. It'd make a pretty good starting point.

As to doing a full volume mash, it's not large enough to do that with any beers I brew regularly... maybe if you mostly drink low gravity stuff, but I mean for a 29L boil you'd have to keep it well under 4kg of grain and even then you'd be pushing it if as stated it only holds 34L

EDIT - even that wouldnt work. That's not counting the deadspace, or the volume taken up by the mash pipe


----------



## paulyman

Visited the LHBS today to pick up a few bits for the weekend and noticed he had the Robobrew in the window. Asked if he knew when the next model was coming out and he said it was already showing for him to order in and it seems to have the same heating elements? 2400W sounds a bit weak for a 65L system if true right?


----------



## sponge

I'd definitely want more than 2.4kW with 65L.


----------



## kaiserben

2400W is the maximum for a regulation household (10A) power outlet, right? So that might be some sort of legality in selling the unit? 

You'd definitely want more power than that for 65L. 

Perhaps they'll just recommend, or sell, a separate heating source (like a supplementary, over-the-side immersion element and to use that when ramping up temps).


----------



## tugger

I came across this a few days ago. 
Could be perfect for this larger version. 
http://youtu.be/RcVP0FcKCiA


----------



## bingggo

I'm thinking this link on grainfather profile setting will be helpful to set up the profile with a few tweaks. I just got my robobrew in the box so not sure what the dead space under the malt pipe is - it's 3.5L on the grainfather:

http://back-2-basics.com.au/How-To-Page/GRAINFATHER-profile-beer-smith

Taken from here: http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/the-grain-father?commentId=1500433%3AComment%3A210609&xg_source=activity

Grain absorption seems a variable I'll have to work out by trial and error depending on my crush. This will be my first big AG brew


----------



## dropbear85

3.5L dead space in the Robobrew also


----------



## bingggo

Anyone bothered taking apart the Robobrew ball valve to clean off manufacturing oils? I just got a SS Brewtech fermenter and the valves were dripping with lubricant inside...


----------



## bingggo

Gave the Robobrew a test run with water. Heats up to mash temp in about 30m from 20 degree water, then boiling in another 30m. Temperature readout during boil at 2400w didn't go above 101 - perhaps not surprisingly - boil seemed reasonably robust. Chiller brought it down to 30 degrees in about 40 minutes.

There wasn't really any packaging material separating the boiler, malt pipe and chiller - so a few scuffs on the interior metal. The boiler rocks very slightly on a flat surface - not really a problem empty or full - but is this the same on others? The lid isn't a particularly great fit.

I was surprised there was no o-ring on the inside nut for the ball valve, but perhaps this is normal?

This is my first time using an immersion chiller - seems like it would take a long time to get it to 20. But perhaps if I drain to my stainless fermenter that will take off a few degrees.


----------



## fj42

Looks like someone's trying to capitilise on kegking's lack of domain name awareness.

http://www.robobrew.com.au


----------



## quadbox

Tafe wordpress assignment 

Glad he posted the dimensions of the thing though, I'd been wanting someone to do that.


----------



## Drick

fj42 said:


> Looks like someone's trying to capitilise on kegking's lack of domain name awareness.
> 
> http://www.robobrew.com.au


 the site doesn't seem to be selling anything, just giving their opinion. I'm happy for any free advice.


----------



## Parks

fj42 said:


> Looks like someone's trying to capitilise on kegking's lack of domain name awareness.
> 
> http://www.robobrew.com.au


The guy would lose that domain if anyone with a valid claim to it sought it. From a very basic search he hasn't used a business/company/trademark/etc with a legitimate tie to the domain name.


----------



## bingggo

Did my first robobrew last night. Had a few teething issues, and would be interested in any advice - this was my first 20L AG batch, having only done a couple of 5L BIABs before. In short, the mash temp in the pipe was 4 degrees lower than the set temp despite recirculating, and the sparge stuck (which made recirculating inefficient anyway). I expect the crush or my technique is to blame? Or is the use of rice husk necessary (I didn't use it)?

The recipe was a ESB with 5.5kg grain milled at the LHBS. I've had grain milled there for the 5L BIAB with no problems. In retrospect, the 5.5kg did look like it had a bit too much fine stuff in it. Maybe they didn't check the mill?

The Robobrew manual tells you to fill the malt pipe with grain, then put it into the water. That seemed like a recipe for dough balls to me? So I put the malt pipe in the mash temp water and rained in the grain stirring to avoid dough balls. At 18L of mash water it was very stiff/thick so I added another 2L. The Robobrew manual says 15-20L depending on grain bill, so that should be ok.

The display reported it was holding to 67 degrees well, switching on the 500w heater periodically. But the temp inside the malt pipe was generally 63-64 degrees over the course of the hour's mash. This was despite pouring off 1.5L (which was at 67) and scattering it in the top of the malt pipe every 10m, and sometimes every few minutes as I was trying to get the mash temp up.

I think part of the cause of low mash temp was the pipe wasn't draining well despite my stirring efforts, and the water level inside the pipe was at least a third higher than the water level outside the pipe.

After the mash was complete, and despite my expensive gym membership, it was a heroic effort to lift the waterlogged pipe out of the robobrew with both hands. My long suffering beautiful assistant slide in the stand for me. It dripped slowly, and eventually I had to scrape the bottom of the pipe with a long paddle so it would release the sparge water I was pouring in.

I ended up with a slightly lower OG than expected (but also about 5L less volume than expected). The next morning, there was about a cup of drippings into the bowl from the maltpipe had a gravity of 1.062 which seemed very high to me (ie. lots of sugars left in the grain?).

I realise I'm a newbie with my first big AG batch, and look forward to advice


----------



## Coodgee

I have a grain father but i avoid stirring too vigorously when mashing in as it stirs up the fine particles which causes the mesh to clog and results in a stuck sparge.


----------



## bingggo

Do people with grainfathers or robobrews find the actual mash temperature is what the temperature dial says it is? Is it necessary to insulate the boiler to achieve that? And does it work to fill the malt pipe before lowering it in?


----------



## Elz

I also did my first ever allgrain brew on the Robobrew this week and experienced some of the issues above.

I milled my own grain at 1.1 mil and 1mil for the wheat (recipe was Dr S's Golden ale). Next time I will increase the gap by .05 mill and adjust up further as necessary.

Using Beersmith I had brewhouse efficiency set at 72%, I think a more realistic figure will be around the mid to high 60's which should alter the mash efficiency and help with hitting my OG (target 1057 actual 1051).

I recirculated the wort using a KegKing pump. My target temp was 67C, however in order to achieve this temp at the top of the grain bed I had it set to 68C. The recirculation was set very slow due to what I believe the grain crush being too fine/too much flour.

The whole process also took longer then I thought, but this should shorten considerably with practice. By the end of the day I likely consumer too much home brew to!
Any way live and learn, with practice I see the Robobrew as being a very good way to brew beer. Not set and forget, but requiring some input into the whole process.


----------



## bingggo

One of the experienced brewers running my LHBS recommended to me this morning 1.9 mil on a 2 roller mill, aiming for less than 15% flour.


----------



## crowmanz

Yup your 1V crush shouldn't be the same as your BIAB crush. You want more of the grain husks intact to help with the grain bed, for particularly sticky mashes (e.g. lots of oats) you may need rice hulls.

You want you mash temps readings to be where the highest temp wort will be.

Improving the crush will help your sparge and flow through the grain bed. water in the malt pipe should be above the water in the urn. 

Adding the grain to the mash water is like underletting should = less dough balls.

Not recirculate to early or to fast to begin with, you need to establish the grain bed. On my 1V recirc I mash in then leave for say 10mins before slowly starting the recirc.

Sparge water can take sometime to get through the grain bed, save time by sparging while the rest of the unit is reaching the boil.

Work out some kind of pulley system to help you lift the malt pipe, makes brew day easier.


----------



## sparkatron

I've just installed Beersmith (wish I'd done it before my first two brews) and setting up my Robobrew profile now. Any comparisons/guides would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## bingggo

Elz said:


> I recirculated the wort using a KegKing pump. My target temp was 67C, however in order to achieve this temp at the top of the grain bed I had it set to 68C. The recirculation was set very slow due to what I believe the grain crush being too fine/too much flour.


Hi Elz, did you have the pump running constantly? and did you set up anything on top of the grain bed for it to drain on to?

My second Robobrew left me with the following notes - some self-evident - look forward to any comments or tips that others have 

- rice husks works to improve filtering, but the pipe is still bloody heavy with 7kg grain - brew on the ground level next time.
- if the temperature drops say 3-5 degrees below target after grain addition, it won't regain target temp in the top of the grain bed even with an insulating jacket and manual recirculating- add boiling water (or push my strike temperature up?
- It seems variable as to how many degrees below the target triggers the heat - during mash out it dropped from 75 to 71 before turning on (perhaps the 1900w has a different setting before it triggers?).
- this time, despite a constant temperature reading, I noticed the wort drawn off for recirculating was 3-5 degrees less than the reported temperature? 
- I seem to need about 1-2L more mash water than expected for a manageable mash consistency (eg. more than the grainfather calculation of Grain Kg x 2.7 +3.5)
- hop flowers can plug the tap/pipe - use a hop sock
- with 18 degree domestic water temperature, getting the Robo below 30 degrees is a challenge - perhaps use ice.
- the inside of the lid seems to have tiny rust-coloured spots - perhaps passivation was necessary.

My thermometer stuck into the top 10cm of the grain bed was always about 62-63 degrees rather than the target 67, as was the 2L wort I was drawing off every 5-10m to recirculate. I decided to roll with it to see what happened. Efficiency at the end was 67%. Not sure what that will do for my fermentability etc, but next time I guess I should add boiling water! 

Cheers,
B


----------



## dropbear85

I did my first brew without a pump just to see how it went and I got about a 3 deg difference from top to bottom. Every brew since has been with a pump and the system works much better. I find only about 0.5 deg difference. because the temp sensor is so close to the elements you don't get an even temp throughout without constant recirculation


----------



## Elz

Heh Binggo, I had to run the pump slow in order to ensure there was enough wort above the grain bed, around 3cm+/-. If I run the pump too fast the wort was not filtering through the grain bed quickly enough. The pump was running constantly and lhad just the hose lying on the grain bed.I like the idea of adding 1 to 2 litres of extra water to the mash. This may 'loosen' things up? As mentioned previously I will also do a coarser crush, which should see less flour.
Cheers 
Elz


----------



## cliffo

sparkatron said:


> I've just installed Beersmith (wish I'd done it before my first two brews) and setting up my Robobrew profile now. Any comparisons/guides would be greatly appreciated!


Echoing this request for a Beersmith profile.

Just ordered one of these today and hoping to knock out a brew or two next week to get back in to AG brewing.

What sort of boil off rate are people getting and are you using both elements for the duration of the boil?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

If you read further up the the page, the Grainfather profile appears to be suitable for the Robobrew as the dimensions/specs are very similar.

I've used both elements for the duration of the boil on each of my first two brews, just the 500W for mash temp control. The recirc pump and hose mod is well worth doing also, but you'll most likely need a courser crush to the grain, or some rice husks to avoid a stuck mash/sparge.

I haven't bothered to work out the boil off rate but it should be very close to that of the Grainfather.


----------



## paulmclaren11

I just ordered one of these after getting out of brewing for a while. I did have Braumeister but can't justify the cost again. With the mash temps does the controller kick in and out at what you set it or do you manually have to turn the elements on and off to maintain mash temp?

Cheers Paul


----------



## cliffo

paulmclaren11 said:


> I just ordered one of these after getting out of brewing for a while. I did have Braumeister but can't justify the cost again. With the mash temps does the controller kick in and out at what you set it or do you manually have to turn the elements on and off to maintain mash temp?
> 
> Cheers Paul


I just finished my first brew on the Robobrew after also previously coming from a Brau.

The controller kicks in to keep temps at the selected set temp. You can turn one or both elements on as needed.

I used the 500w element to maintain mash temp and both elements for the boil.

I still need to check my numbers to see if I hit them but at least my volume is pretty much spot on.

Will provide an overall impression after I've finished this 2nd brew.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Awesome look forward to your report

Also what you mashed in with vol wise and sparged with would be great (obviously depending on your grain bill amount).

With the Brau I always mashed with 25 ltrs to reduce the sparge water needed... does this apply to this system?


----------



## cliffo

Okay, so I did two brews.

First up was a Dr S Golden Ale (60min boil). 5.2kg grain bill, mashed in with 24L and sparged 7.5L and ended up with 21L in the fermenter.

2nd was a Hop Hog clone (90min boil). 6.48kg grain bill, mashed in with 23L and sparged with 10L and ended up with just over 20L in the fermenter.

My OGs were off on both brews but I did have my LHBS crack the grain fairly coarsely given it's the first run. Will get it cracked finer next time.

Main points I noted:

The supplied trivet for supporting the malt pipe when draining/sparging is a right pain in the bum. I used a wire tray from my roasting pan for the 2nd brew which was much easier.
The indicated mash temps seemed to go up and down at some points
Overall, for the price I certainly can't complain with how it performed, especially since it was the first run.

I will probably get another Brau at some point but for now this will certainly make beer.


----------



## Drick

Thanks for the the info on your two brews Cliffo. I'm looking to buy a Robobrew and haven't seen too many reviews and less still in the brewing details.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Cheers cliffo.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Just did my 3rd brew on the Robo yesterday. I did a Dr S Golden Ale as well. I put about 200g of rice hulls in the mash to go with the grain and found that this greatly improved the mash re circulation using the pump. This also helped with the sparge and it drained much better and needed next to no stirring or agitating.

This was my first time using whirlfloc and I have to say I'm impressed with the clarity of the wort going into the fermenter. Hopefully the clumps of cloudy sediment will just sink to the bottom and I can rack the clear stuff.

I'm going to try a Bia Hoi style with Vienna Pils grain and rice solids this weekend. Hopefully this will be my go to session beer that is quicker to brew, quicker to ferment and quicker to get on tap.


----------



## paulmclaren11

cliffo said:


> Okay, so I did two brews.
> 
> First up was a Dr S Golden Ale (60min boil). 5.2kg grain bill, mashed in with 24L and sparged 7.5L and ended up with 21L in the fermenter.


Hey cliffo, how full was the malt pipe with 5.2kg and 24l mash water?

I am planning 5.3kg and 25L for my first brew this weekend to minimise sparge water required.

Cheers,

Paul.


----------



## cliffo

paulmclaren11 said:


> Hey cliffo, how full was the malt pipe with 5.2kg and 24l mash water?


It was getting up near the top. I originally had planned to use 20L mash water but added the extra 4L after I filled the pipe as there was still room.

Maybe play it safe and do something similar but you may just have enough room to play with.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Cool thought so.... might just go 20 ltrs and use more sparge water...


----------



## paulmclaren11

Ordered a magnetic pump set up, hope it arrives before the weekend so I can try re-circulation for my first brew this weekend.


----------



## cliffo

I've one of the old brown pumps laying around that I'm planning to integrate at some point.

Should help with efficiency and clearer wort.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Have you been manually recirculating cliffo?


----------



## cliffo

Yeah, just used a 2 litre jug for the first two brews.

Recirced maybe 6 litres every 15 minutes or so.

Ended up with pretty clear wort but my efficiency could do with some improvement though that could be more to do with the crush of the grain.


----------



## paulmclaren11

About the crush, I assume to fine will result in grain escaping the holes in the malt pipe which look fairly big. Wonder with a piece of mesh would be worth adding to ensure no grain escapes.... there's always something!


----------



## cliffo

I guess it would help depending on how fine a crush you've got.

From memory, the holes in this are slightly smaller diameter than on the Brau so it may or may not be needed.

I didn't have any grain escape on my first two efforts though YMMV.

I think I'll do the next few brews stock standard until I'm used to the Robobrew and then look at changes/additions.


----------



## paulmclaren11

True, will see how it goes before I buy anything else!


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

The recirc pump and hose mod is well worth it but you'll need to consider two factors:

1. You will want to regulate the flow with a ball valve on the outlet of the pump NOT on the ball valve from the kettle. That way the pump can happily chug along with full supply of wort and you can still control flow

2. You will need to ensure you either have a coarser crush than what you would get at the LHBS or add some rice hulls to break up the mash. Without these I was constantly getting a stuck mash and sparge and made it very frustrating. With 200g of rice hulls in my last brew I was able to set a generous flow and watch the clear wort flowing onto the top of the mash with no rise in the level.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Good points. I have ordered the pump with an additional ball valve to control the flow as you recommended.

Tested the unit last night with just some water, impressed at how quick it heats up and the temp controller.

Can't wait to see how the first brew goes this weekend.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Anyone had issues with the temp display going blank?

Did another test last night with the pump, all was going well and as I got to mash out temps the blue back light was there but no numbers. I turned it off from the mains and then it was fine....

Have let my LHBS know - hopefully just a one off glitch...


----------



## cliffo

Actually I think I noticed that happen once or twice when i was chilling the wort but didn't think anymore of it.

Will pay further attention on my next brew in a week or so.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Yeah don't mind if it happens once the mash is done and/or I am still getting a rolling boil....

I emailed Keg King to see if it's a fault or whether there is a reason it happens (can't think of one...)


----------



## Drick

LCD displays can blank out when the temperature goes too high, maybe the base needs a built-in fan to cool around the elements.


----------



## keifer33

I am quite disappointed with the controller on mine. Have experienced the LCD going off twice. Other issues is there doesn't seem to be a set amount of degrees before the element kicks in and with no apparent way of modifying anything. 

Also the +/- button is a bit sticky and sometimes gets stuck when adjust temps.

I am currently trying to think of a way to attach an external Controller and bypass the internal one.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Hmmm seems like a common issue. We get what we pay for I guess.

As soon as I turned it off at the mains and back on again it worked fine but the base was hot.


----------



## cliffo

True, but regardless of price you still expect a product to work as advertised.

That being said, I was happy with how it performed on my first couple of brews.

Will pay closer attention to mine and raise any issues with supplier if I run in to any problems with the operation if the unit.


----------



## dropbear85

never had a problem with mine. done about 6 brews on it


----------



## Elz

Only two brews in, had nil problems to date


----------



## sarahmohawk

Hi all,

Signed up just so I could join this thread, I'm a homebrewer from New Zealand and this seems to be the only place online where people are discussing the Robobrew. Been seriously considering it as the cheap grainfather alternative with recirculating added too.

Just wanted to add a few thoughts.


Full setup with the pump here would cost NZD $640ish as opposed to Grainfather's $1150 so almost knocks it down to half price.
However, Grainfather users already confirmed that it stands up to a lot of wear and tear (these guys had 86 brews completed and counting) whereas RB is relatively unproven. Double the cost might be worth it, if it's more survivable in the long run.
Correct me if I'm wrong - Biggest design flaw I don't like about it is that the temp controller looks like it can't be replaced as easily as opposed to the GF side mounted one. Especially since you guys are reporting a possible fault with the display, that's a little troubling.
GF as an established brand would have an easier time being resold if you chose to upgrade. Also less likely to stop producing spare parts.
That little stand for sparging looks flimsy/awkward as hell. The videos seem to show people struggling with it a bit. Probably easy enough to DIY up an alternative though.
Despite all that, the cost of the unit is bloody fantastic and seems great for small spaces. Making something similar would cost almost as much plus the time wasted trying to get all the right parts together. For price alone it's tempting but still feels like a risky investment since they haven't been fully thrashed by anyone yet.


----------



## sparkatron

Man, I did a brew today and I got the display issue as well. You guys jinxed me! ;-)

Wasn't a big issue though. I just turned it off/on again and I was back in business. That ol' chestnut always works.


----------



## tmaybo

I brewed my second batch today and all is well. 

I found that I had a bit of a stuck mash so will try the rice husks for the next go round.

It's my second all grain brew and it makes me very happy to have upgraded from kits and bits!


----------



## paulmclaren11

Will do a short report on my first brew day yesterday which seemed to go well with a new piece of brew gear.

Thankfully the display issue didn't happen this time - will keep an eye out for it. I emailed keg king about and no one has responded as yet. 

I used 5.3kg of grain - mash in water was 22lts.

I recirculated using the keg king magnetic pump, highly recommend getting one of these to maintain mash temps and get nice clear wort. I mashed in at 40c like I did with my old braumeister and then started the pump.

I did notice there was about a 2-3 degree drop before the elements would kick in. Eg, I set my mash temp to 66 and it would drop to 63 before the elements would kick in. I had both elements on during the mash. I just upped my mash temp setting to rectify this. After a while it settled and maintained an even temp.

Mashed out at 78c.

Lifting the malt pipe was an absolute ball ache on my own - as I had to have the kettle above the pump to recirculate it was a mighty effort to lift the malt pipe so high and then get the stand in place. Need a lower brew table...

Sparge went well using 8 litres.

The boil was vigorous! I nearly had a boil over with the temp set at 103, I lowered it to 102 and it maintained a good rolling boil through out.

I no chilled and was maybe a ltr or 2 off what I wanted but as long as it fills a keg I don't care. Numbers seemed fairly spot on as well.

Super easy to clean which I like. No mesh or grain bags etc is what I like!

The unit, I think for the money, is great. Need to work on my water calcs some more and look at trying to maintain steady mash temps (insulation maybe) but all in all a simple, easy brew day. :super: :beerbang:


----------



## Drick

Spoke to Kegking today about their possible future Robobrew system which may have a integrated pump and they said it's still in the design stages. I also told them about this thread and the reported LCD issue (which they didn't know about). Hopefully the feedback will help them with designing their next generation.


----------



## keifer33

I agree on the lifting the malt pipe out Paul. Tried it once solo and until I put a winch in place its a 2 person job.

Brewed on mine again yeaterday and had a better brewing experience than the first few. Dialed in my volumes a bit more but after adjusting my crush to get a bit better flow my efficiency went to shit. The increased flow helped alot in getting a consistent temperature throughout quicker.

No display issues and element kicked in when it was supposed to so I call it a success even though it needed nearly a kilo of DME to get my gravity back up.


----------



## paulyman

Drick said:


> Spoke to Kegking today about their possible future Robobrew system which may have a integrated pump and they said it's still in the design stages. I also told them about this thread and the reported LCD issue (which they didn't know about). Hopefully the feedback will help them with designing their next generation.


Did they confirm how powerful it would be? I think I posted in here earlier my LHBS had heard it would be the same elements for nearly double the batch size!


----------



## lael

Anyone in Sydney have a Robobrew I can take a look at in person?


----------



## dropbear85

lael said:


> Anyone in Sydney have a Robobrew I can take a look at in person?


Hey Lael,
I'm in Quakers and you are more than welcome to pop around next time I brew. probably won't be for a couple of weeks though.


----------



## Drick

paulyman said:


> Did they confirm how powerful it would be? I think I posted in here earlier my LHBS had heard it would be the same elements for nearly double the batch size!


 sorry I didn't ask and they weren't volunteering information, all that was said is they were designing the next generation which may be a little more like a grainfather. As I say, the person I spoke to wasn't giving much away.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Someone in this thread had the idea of using an Ikea trivet for the malt pipe. I'm going to be doing this. Seems much easier than the fiddly thing that comes with the unit.


----------



## cliffo

I used a flat one from my roasting pan on my second brew.

So much easier than the one that comes with the Robobrew.


----------



## dropbear85

After the first brew I thew mine in a vice and bent the legs out a little so it wasn't tight around the urn. still can be a little fiddly sitting the basket on with those ducky little holder things but it's better than it was


----------



## paulmclaren11

I use the now defunct Brewmate, anyone still using this and have their settings to would like to share?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Is there a Grainfather profile on Brewmate? I've heard the settings are very similar.


----------



## Elz

About to put down my third brew over the Aus day long weekend. To date my brewhouse efficiency has been realy poor. Is there a consensus yet as to what size the grains should be crushed? Currently milling at 1.1 mm but plan to increased to 1.25mm. I recirc the wort with a pump and I guess there is a fine balance b/w efficiency and also having a stuck sparge
.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I can't comment on the grain crush as I buy mine pre-cracked. Rice hulls worked really well to reduce the stuck mash/sparge. I just added 500gms. I guess that doesn't help with efficiency though.


----------



## paulmclaren11

When you say stuck sparge do you mean no drainage at all or a slow trickle?

Do you dump all the sparge water in at once or a litre or 2 at a time?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

paulmclaren11 said:


> When you say stuck sparge do you mean no drainage at all or a slow trickle?
> 
> Do you dump all the sparge water in at once or a litre or 2 at a time?


I generally will pour in 2L at a time. But what I'm finding without the rice husks is that the grains will soak all of this up and hold it.

Before I even got to that point though, I was having trouble with recirculating the wort as it would all end up in the malt pipe and come close to going below drain valve level. When lifting the malt pipe you were basically lifting all wort out of the kettle with it.

It would very slowly drip through - not even a trickle.

With the rice husks - no problems at all.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Wow.. never had that and hope I don't!

How much water are you mashing with?


----------



## sparkatron

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Is there a Grainfather profile on Brewmate? I've heard the settings are very similar.


Not as far as I know. I only stopped using brewmate for brewsmith a little while back but there wasn't one before I ditched it. Mind you, I've heard a few say the brewsmith Grainfather profile isn't accurate either (to the actual grainfather).


----------



## paulyman

sparkatron said:


> Not as far as I know. I only stopped using brewmate for brewsmith a little while back but there wasn't one before I ditched it. Mind you, I've heard a few say the brewsmith Grainfather profile isn't accurate either (to the actual grainfather).


From what I understand the Beersmith profile is accurate (as an example: http://back-2-basics.com.au/How-To-Page/GRAINFATHER-profile-beer-smith), if you manually add the deadspace (3.5L) to the mash water volume and subtract it from the sparge volume. Also have to change the grain absorption from the Beersmith default 0.96 ish to 0.8. I'm sure if you did the same using the Robobrew's deadspace it would work fine. 

Edited for more detail.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

paulmclaren11 said:


> Wow.. never had that and hope I don't!
> 
> How much water are you mashing with?


I was using the Grainfather online calculator for mash and sparge water which was telling me to add only around 15-16L to mash. I think If I added around 20L this would solve the problem of running dry in the main kettle.

But the rice hulls make it run so much smoother anyway.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Cool might give the rice hulls... my first brew I used 22ltrs in the mash and sparged with about 8 ltrs.


----------



## cliffo

Another day, another 2 brews done on the Robobrew.

About the only issue I have now is with the temperature difference the system displays during the mash.

The display might show (for example) 66 degrees during the mash but when I manually pour off 6-8 litres to recirculate through the system the temp display will drop by 2-4 degrees.

Planning to use a pump on my next few brews but still can't argue with the price point of the unit for what you get.

Overall, I'm still happy with this system.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Bob_Loblaw said:


> I generally will pour in 2L at a time. But what I'm finding without the rice husks is that the grains will soak all of this up and hold it.
> 
> Before I even got to that point though, I was having trouble with recirculating the wort as it would all end up in the malt pipe and come close to going below drain valve level. When lifting the malt pipe you were basically lifting all wort out of the kettle with it.
> 
> It would very slowly drip through - not even a trickle.
> 
> With the rice husks - no problems at all.


Well I experienced this yesterday. Had a brew shop mill the grain for me and was obviously too fine even after said they know how to mill for a robo... 
Suffice to say I will be milling my own from now on. Courser is the go. First brew no issues at all using the pump. This time the malt pipe wanted to overflow. Rice hulls next time too. Also the temp variations give my the shizens but it is a good system for the price. Just need a few more under my belt to work the system out.


----------



## bouncingcastle

paulmclaren11 said:


> Well I experienced this yesterday. Had a brew shop mill the grain for me and was obviously too fine even after said they know how to mill for a robo...
> Suffice to say I will be milling my own from now on. Courser is the go. First brew no issues at all using the pump. This time the malt pipe wanted to overflow. Rice hulls next time too. Also the temp variations give my the shizens but it is a good system for the price. Just need a few more under my belt to work the system out.



Do you run a pump or are you manually recirculating?


----------



## paulmclaren11

I run a pump.


----------



## bouncingcastle

Silly me, missed that in your original post :S


----------



## Siborg

paulmclaren11 said:


> Well I experienced this yesterday. Had a brew shop mill the grain for me and was obviously too fine even after said they know how to mill for a robo...
> Suffice to say I will be milling my own from now on. Courser is the go. First brew no issues at all using the pump. This time the malt pipe wanted to overflow. Rice hulls next time too. Also the temp variations give my the shizens but it is a good system for the price. Just need a few more under my belt to work the system out.


I picked up my robo brew and pump on Friday. Haven't even unboxed it. I got the grains for my first batch milled at the shop and they look nice and course, so I'm hoping this isn't an issue. How fast do you run the recirc from the pump?


----------



## paulmclaren11

Siborg said:


> I picked up my robo brew and pump on Friday. Haven't even unboxed it. I got the grains for my first batch milled at the shop and they look nice and course, so I'm hoping this isn't an issue. How fast do you run the recirc from the pump?


Not overly fast as you don't want it to blast the grain bed (my understanding anyways). A nice gentle flow is all I go for (when I don't get a stuck mash!). Just keep an eye on things to make sure it's recirculating well or better still do as other have and get some rice husks to be safe.

Did you get a ball valve for the outlet on the pump?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Siborg said:


> I picked up my robo brew and pump on Friday. Haven't even unboxed it. I got the grains for my first batch milled at the shop and they look nice and course, so I'm hoping this isn't an issue. How fast do you run the recirc from the pump?


Do you have a ball valve for the pump? You need to let the pump push as much as it wants and then you can control output via a valve on the pump. That way you'll never damage the pump by running dry, and you can set whatever flow you want.

Generally I let mine run so that the flow nearly fills the hose ending as it's coming out. It's easy to work out the flow just by doing it and seeing how much you can move without disturbing the wort too much, but also recirculating enough. I use an alligator clip to attach the hose to the rim of the malt pipe, but I've seen guys get away with just resting the hose inside the top.


----------



## dropbear85

I've never had a problem with stuck sparge as I don't crush fine but where do you get rice hulls from?


----------



## paulmclaren11

dropbear85 said:


> I've never had a problem with stuck sparge as I don't crush fine but where do you get rice hulls from?


Most LHBS's should have them from my research here in Perth.

What do mm do you crush at mate? I was thinking for going for 1.2mm


----------



## dropbear85

I'll have a look tonight but I don't really look at the numbers. I just make sure everything looked cracked open and not a powder


----------



## Siborg

I don't have a spare ball valve, but I'll be getting one soon. In terms of grind, my LHBS ground at 1.2mm according to their site, and it looks quite course. Still reckon I'll need hulls? I may have some somewhere, but if I don't I'll probably just risk it.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Siborg said:


> I don't have a spare ball valve, but I'll be getting one soon. In terms of grind, my LHBS ground at 1.2mm according to their site, and it looks quite course. Still reckon I'll need hulls? I may have some somewhere, but if I don't I'll probably just risk it.


I didn't use any rice hulls on my first brew, if you think it looks like a course crush you should be okay.....

You will need the ball valve to control the flow of the re circulation.


----------



## bouncingcastle

To those getting stuck (or slow) Recirculation are you letting the mash settle for 10 minutes at the start or are you pumping straight away?

I have yet to unbox my robobrew but have a keen interest in having a nice maiden run


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

bouncingcastle said:


> To those getting stuck (or slow) Recirculation are you letting the mash settle for 10 minutes at the start or are you pumping straight away?
> 
> I have yet to unbox my robobrew but have a keen interest in having a nice maiden run


Yeah I was letting all dough in and settle and then pumping. IMO it's all down to how coarse the grain is milled. As I don't have my own mill yet the answer was to spend $2.50 on a bag of rice hulls that splits over two brews.

I would still go ahead, but just be prepared to stir a little with a mash paddle to get it to drain better.


----------



## bouncingcastle

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Yeah I was letting all dough in and settle and then pumping. IMO it's all down to how coarse the grain is milled. As I don't have my own mill yet the answer was to spend $2.50 on a bag of rice hulls that splits over two brews.
> 
> I would still go ahead, but just be prepared to stir a little with a mash paddle to get it to drain better.


Well I'm fortunate enough to have my own mill, so I will heed the warning and go coarse for day 1. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Siborg

Did my first brew last night on this and, damn it was hard. I'm going to list my problems below. Nothing majorly wrong with the unit, just some headaches I encountered that will need to be rectified for batch #2:


I got home from work late, and didn't start heating my strike water until 6;30-7:00
I didn't get a ball valve for my pump, so didn't set it up. Instead, I manually recirculated with a 3L jug. Can confirm temperature differences between bottom and top of mash. I think this is mostly due to the "slim N tall" design of the unit. Having the pump running next time will keep the temps more consistent
Sparging/volumes. I mashed in with 14-15L. Sparged with like 13-16L and only got a pre-boil volume of 26L tops. And I was still under gravity. Think I'll be more careful with my volume calculations next time
Boiling was about the only thing that was a success. With both elements on and with 26L in the boil, it was dangerously close to boiling over. With the calculated 29L in there, it would have boiled over for sure. I did turn the 500w element off, and would have sooner if I had 29L in there.
Evaporation wasn't as much as I'd have thought. I only lost about 1L during a 75 min boil, and it was quite vigorous the entire time (see above)
The bloody chiller. This was entirely my fault. I didn't have any hose clamps that were small enough to seal the hose properly onto the chiller so I had to use some bigger ones I had lying around. I think I had a very slight trickle into the batch which cost me a few more gravity points by diluting it. Definitely need to invest in some better/smaller hose clamps or look at some alternatives here.
It was 10:30 by the time I began chilling. By 11:15, I decided to just put the 59 degree wort into my better bottle fermenter (max heat rating 60 degrees), put it in the fridge and pitch in the morning. 
Pitched the yeast this morning. The new pure pitch packets from white labs. I cleaned and sanitised my scissors, cut the packet on the indicated line, then got yeasties everywhere. Managed to get the rest of the packet in but, oh... I forgot to aerate the wort...
I haven't cleaned anything except the malt pipe and chiller. There is still wort and hot break all over the boiler (lid on). This is not gonna be pretty when I get home tonight....
 F**k it. I've never had a brew where I've been as ill-prepared, or gotten to the point of just saying "f**k it". I doubt this will be anywhere near my best brew, let alone whether or not it will be drinkable. I HAD to do it last night because it was my last chance to brew something for beerfest (a personal challenge to enter something). OG is 1.045 and I was aiming for 1.050.


----------



## BarnBocock

Joined this site just now as have been following this thread very closely and wanted to post up my first 2016 brew details (bought the RoboBrew as my first all-grain device).

My pale ale used:

> *5.130 kg* of grain
> *17.5 L* of mash in strike water
> *13 L* of sparge water
> *26 L* pre-boil volume
> *20 L* post-boil volume _(was actually aiming for close to 23 L or 6 gallons)_


_Jumble of points (my thoughts & methods)..._


> I was using a 5 L jug for recirculating and poured around 3 - 4 L every 10 or 15 min back carefully over the top of the grain. To make pouring into the jug easier, and to help with element ventilation, I placed my RoboBrew up on a 12 L solid stockpot with a thick metal grill from the oven resting on top (before lining up and placing the RB). This way the RoboBrew was 20 cm up off the floor, above an open pot + grill, and the 5 L jug fitted under the tap for easy filling.

> To measure the water volume I made a marked measuring brew stick as a reference to figure out my required levels. By measuring down from the top of the RoboBrew with a small ruler (so you don't have to put a stick all the way into the wort) I could then refer to "the magic stick" for the volume. For example, 13 cm down from the rim is equal to 25 L of water by my calculations. The MAX line is at 30 L at 6 cm down.

> I used 62 g of hop pellets in my 60 min boil. I had previously run a simple boiling water test (for cleaning also) of 25 L for 60 min which left me 22 L (3 L lost to evaporation). So it seems the hops absorbed around 3 L of the boil as well as 3 L lost to evaporation ie 26 L vol with 62 g of added hops for a 60 min boil gave me 20 L once cooled and sieved through into my fermenter (including 100 ml 'lost' for OG test).

> I think I need to slightly increase the strike &/or sparge water, but not by too much - the rolling boil was *great* (vigorous!) and a boil at 29 L to hit the 23 L mark I think would result in a potentially easy boil over if not watched like a hawk. 21 L seems like a good target to hit for my fermenter.

> The lifting of the mash pipe up onto the rack was hot and hard - luckily I had my partner on standby who quickly placed the rack for me, so was completely fine (else, I'd be worried I might struggle or burn myself).




_More to come as I think of stuff + the kids need lunch lol..._


----------



## Siborg

Siborg said:


> Did my first brew last night on this and, damn it was hard. I'm going to list my problems below. Nothing majorly wrong with the unit, just some headaches I encountered that will need to be rectified for batch #2:
> 
> 
> I got home from work late, and didn't start heating my strike water until 6;30-7:00
> I didn't get a ball valve for my pump, so didn't set it up. Instead, I manually recirculated with a 3L jug. Can confirm temperature differences between bottom and top of mash. I think this is mostly due to the "slim N tall" design of the unit. Having the pump running next time will keep the temps more consistent
> Sparging/volumes. I mashed in with 14-15L. Sparged with like 13-16L and only got a pre-boil volume of 26L tops. And I was still under gravity. Think I'll be more careful with my volume calculations next time
> Boiling was about the only thing that was a success. With both elements on and with 26L in the boil, it was dangerously close to boiling over. With the calculated 29L in there, it would have boiled over for sure. I did turn the 500w element off, and would have sooner if I had 29L in there.
> Evaporation wasn't as much as I'd have thought. I only lost about 1L during a 75 min boil, and it was quite vigorous the entire time (see above)
> The bloody chiller. This was entirely my fault. I didn't have any hose clamps that were small enough to seal the hose properly onto the chiller so I had to use some bigger ones I had lying around. I think I had a very slight trickle into the batch which cost me a few more gravity points by diluting it. Definitely need to invest in some better/smaller hose clamps or look at some alternatives here.
> It was 10:30 by the time I began chilling. By 11:15, I decided to just put the 59 degree wort into my better bottle fermenter (max heat rating 60 degrees), put it in the fridge and pitch in the morning.
> Pitched the yeast this morning. The new pure pitch packets from white labs. I cleaned and sanitised my scissors, cut the packet on the indicated line, then got yeasties everywhere. Managed to get the rest of the packet in but, oh... I forgot to aerate the wort...
> I haven't cleaned anything except the malt pipe and chiller. There is still wort and hot break all over the boiler (lid on). This is not gonna be pretty when I get home tonight....
> F**k it. I've never had a brew where I've been as ill-prepared, or gotten to the point of just saying "f**k it". I doubt this will be anywhere near my best brew, let alone whether or not it will be drinkable. I HAD to do it last night because it was my last chance to brew something for beerfest (a personal challenge to enter something). OG is 1.045 and I was aiming for 1.050.


Oh yeah... Besides all of this. I had no beer to drink during the entire brew.


----------



## Yob

Beer crime!! Shame on you


----------



## paulmclaren11

BarnBocock said:


> > The lifting of the mash pipe up onto the rack was hot and hard - luckily I had my partner on standby who quickly placed the rack for me, so was completely fine (else, I'd be worried I might struggle or burn myself).



Yes, I have done this twice on my own now and it sucks! I need a lower brew bench. The second time I pulled the pipe and put it in a pail, then put the stand in place, then lifted the pipe on... not easy!


----------



## Ghizo

Just purchased and received my shiny new robobrew.
Did my first run with it on Friday.
Dr smurtos golden ale.
5kg grain bill
28.5 litres in the fermenter.
22.5 l In fermenter.

My thoughts.
First run too just over 4 hours start to finish.
Missed my gravity by 4 points so not to bad for a first effort.
Easy to use clean up was a breeze, 
Lifting the malt pipe is a bitch, I did it on my own and after a couple of brews I think I will get it, but saying that if I have someone around I will use them.
Boil came very close to boil over but east to avert by blowing on the foam. 
I used the keg King hop spider, not sure about this 
The chiller worked much better than I expected15 minutes to get down to 35c then I put it in the fridge to finish.

Overall I love it, can't wait to do another brew


----------



## cliffo

paulmclaren11 said:


> The second time I pulled the pipe and put it in a pail, then put the stand in place, then lifted the pipe on... not easy!


I like this. Going to do it this way on my next brew.


----------



## Siborg

Anyone used the included chiller? What have you used to attach a hose to it? I had some spare hose clamps, but they didn't do a great job and it was spewing out a little water. I ordered some of the compression fittings from keg king, but I think they are too big and are meant for their separate immersion chiller.


----------



## cliffo

I've been using it and had a similar problem.

Grabed some of the orange handle screw clamps from Bunnings but still ended up having to cut off some of my hose (that sounds painful) till I got a more circular section that provided a better seal.

I think it might be due to how thin the cooler is.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I had a box of ALDI hose clamps lying around and luckily found two that were the perfect size for the chiller. Obviously you want to get them as tight as possible and on the right spot of the hose and chiller pipe end.

Re: the malt pipe - if you ditch the stand thing that KK provide and use an IKEA/any other strong trivet it makes it much easier to do it all in one go. I've done two brews with the trivet and both times I was able to lift the pipe and slide the trivet underneath in one fluid motion. I brew on a low workbench that allows me to stand on it next to the kettle if I need to - gives better leverage.


----------



## Siborg

Bob_Loblaw said:


> I had a box of ALDI hose clamps lying around and luckily found two that were the perfect size for the chiller. Obviously you want to get them as tight as possible and on the right spot of the hose and chiller pipe end.
> 
> Re: the malt pipe - if you ditch the stand thing that KK provide and use an IKEA/any other strong trivet it makes it much easier to do it all in one go. I've done two brews with the trivet and both times I was able to lift the pipe and slide the trivet underneath in one fluid motion. I brew on a low workbench that allows me to stand on it next to the kettle if I need to - gives better leverage.


Have you got a picture of what you mean?


----------



## evoo4u

I don't have an RB, but something like this:


----------



## Siborg

Ahhhh.... I see now!


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

evoo4u said:


> I don't have an RB, but something like this:



I couldn't have done a better job of illustrating. It's almost like you've been snooping over my back fence watching me do it...


----------



## Feldon

evoo4u said:


> I don't have an RB, but something like this:


And so begins your career as AHB's cartoonist-in-residence.

Encore!


----------



## evoo4u

The OHWS police would be proud of my Mr Stick keeping a straight back!


----------



## Alex.Tas

Siborg said:


> Anyone used the included chiller? What have you used to attach a hose to it? I had some spare hose clamps, but they didn't do a great job and it was spewing out a little water. I ordered some of the compression fittings from keg king, but I think they are too big and are meant for their separate immersion chiller.


I did the same thing for a completely separate chiller i bought from Ebay. the outer tube diameter was 12mm. The description on the KK website stated the compression fittings were suitable for their 12mm immersion chiller. 
I suppose its slightly my fault for not double checking, but their chillers may not be exactly 12mm. Presumably they would be 12.7mm because the compression fittings they sent me are for 1/2 inch tube (12.7mm), not 12mm. 
After much travel around Hobart on a saturday trying to find somewhere that sold 12mm stainless compression fittings, i was told by a few people to goto a fabrication shop and get them to weld on a thread the size I need. Its damn thin tube so i was pretty skeptical Anyway the fabricator told me about Prochem. these guys got me a pair of fitting the next day. Around $20 each, so while not as cheap as the KK ones, they were the right size and i would suspect somewhat better quality. The sulphuric acid plant I once worked at got their stainless fittings from here so i'm pretty confident they can handle hot-ish water. 





Bob_Loblaw said:


> I had a box of ALDI hose clamps lying around and luckily found two that were the perfect size for the chiller. Obviously you want to get them as tight as possible and on the right spot of the hose and chiller pipe end.


Before i got the compression fittings mentioned above, i used a couple of hose clamps, then had a rubber band wrapped around the tube (not over the hose), so that if any smal drips came out of the hose, it would collect on the rubber band and drip onto the floor, rather than dribbling along the tubing and into the cooling wort. It worked okay, but the compression fittings work much better. I got some hose fittings that have rotating adjustable elbows to make it easier too.


----------



## cliffo

Another two brews on the RoboBrew today.

This time I dug out my little brown pump that I hadn't used in about 4 years.

The main points to come out of today's brews:

A more even mash temp throughout the malt pipe (the pump should make for a set and forget mash if only having the one mash step). Varying mash temps had been my main issue with the system.
Efficiency increased slightly (still varying how I have the brew shop crack my grain to see what works best)
The wort was much clearer
The pump seems to reduce with wort cooling times when run whilst using the immersion chiller
All in all, I'd suggest anyone with a RoboBrew would definitely benefit from running a pump on this system.

A good brew day! :beerbang:


----------



## Siborg

Second brew down. Some improvements and some ideas for further improvements:

Firstly, I used some smaller hose clamps and used two on the inlet and the outlet. No leaks. No fuss. Got down to 50 degrees pretty quickly. Took ages to get below 30 degrees, so I drained into the fermenter then chilled to 20-22 before pitching. Next time, I will get more of the hose into the laundry sink and maybe grab a bag of ice from the servo to "pre-chill" the water going into the immersion chiller. I also think it chilled quicker while the finished wort was still spinning from my whirlpool (from stirring). Colder water while the wort is still spinning may help get it down even quicker.
I used a pump and a primitive wort return (an m&m's lid wrapped in foil). The wort was HEAPS clearer and I actually overshot my target OG by 2 points. Going to be doing this every brew from now on. 
I need (Yes: NEED) a HLT. My current sparging process is heat 3 3-4L pots on the stove, climb my step ladder and pour into the malt pipe through a sieve to avoid disturbing the grain bed.
On sparging. GodDAMN it was slow! I milled the grains using my crankandstein mill which mills quite coursely, but it was still a snails pace sparge. Rice hulls next time for sure. I was patient though. It worked. Just s..l...o...w...l...y.
I noticed a whole lot of grain material escaped the main basket. I think a fine mesh screen similar to what the Braumesiter uses on top of the screen on the bottom may help with this. I might see if I can cut a piece of SS flywire to size to suit this purpose.
The wort was MUCH darker than I expected. Last time I brewed this recipe, it was yellow-gold. This is almost copper. Unless the Munich I used last time was a light(er) munich and the same with the Victory, OR I really stuffed up my quantities somewhere, maybe some caramelisation is happening, which is hard to imagine how, seeing as the wort never comes into contact with the element. There was some evidence of scorching on the bottom of the pot during clean up, but that could have easily been from the boil.

I wanna brew a big beer in this thing just to push it to it's limits. It says 8Kg comfortably and Max 9Kg of grains. I'm gonna try 9Kgs, but it's gonna be tough. What's the most anyone's brewed in the robobrew?


----------



## cliffo

I had been using an old 12v brown pump for recirculating my mash but it died on me during the last brew so I bought a Keg King magnetic drive pump.

I've mounted the pump to my brew stand and just did a quick connect of the hoses and fittings to the pump to test it out (still need to add teflon tape to the fittings, hence the slight leak).

Quite an improvement on the brown pump and looks like this may work well both for recirculating the mash and creating a whirpool post boil.

Looking forward to my next brew with the new pump in action.





I've thrown up a video of the whirlpool HERE

cheers,
cliffo


----------



## MastersBrewery

The ss head for that pump is well worth the $40.


----------



## cliffo

MastersBrewery said:


> The ss head for that pump is well worth the $40.


I'd say I'll get it at some point but for now will run in stock form.


----------



## GashRash

I haven't read every post, but got sent here for my opinion. 8 brews in it so far. Pump isnt needed at all, insulate, mash in right temp, use small element for keeping temp is plenty, don't get scared about the read out temp varying by a few degrees, the delay/pause set in the electronics deals with the small space under the pipe seemingly giving over and under temps. I've digitally monitored the temp in the mash and its very stable. Use a pump by all means, but I've found it really isn't needed unless you want to play with trying to step mash etc. All in all for price I think its hard to beat if you don't want to mess around building your own stuff which is what I usually do, which usually always costs more than expected and in a build like this I reckon it'd be hard to do for the same cost. I don't think the Grainfather has any significant advantages, I think the grainfather pipe recirc setup is fiddly and a pain in the arse, I also don't like pumps and things all built into one unit, but that's my preference. The fact I haven't gone back to my 3V system in 8 brews says a lot, yeah the volume is kinda limited but that's the same with GF and the 20L BM. I like the simplicity, I like the easy clean up, I like the small footprint, I like the sped up brew day, will it last forever, probably not. I think for a beginner or old head like me with 28 years brewing under my belt its a fun little system to have a play with, made me me rethink my processes again which is great. The chiller isn't the best, but works, I usually still use my plate chiller which also means I use grain bags and/or my hop basket for the hops, when I use the IC I don't bother the 3.5L dead space is plenty for trub/hop matter. I think it's a fun little machine and for the price not a bad buy. If you can't brew beer in this an expensive system isn't going to help you. I followed the instructions once, I found the mash in recommended way too small, I've gone to 20L for all my brews since the first one using any where from 4kg to 6kg of grain, efficiency has been fine and funnily enough just about exactly the same efficiency I was getting on my 3V. 80%-85% Mash eff. All up low 70s as usual. Cheers!


----------



## dropbear85

used the robobrew to cook some ribs sous vide style today before smoking them in the Weber. turned out wonderful! 
This baby just doubled in value!


----------



## pist

Checked one of these out at countrybrewer at east Maitland the other day. Was quite impressed for the money the robobrew looks like great value. If i was starting out again i would of bypassed getting a single vessel biab rig and got one of these, in fact i have been thinking about going electric on my single vessel system so may just sell the gas fired rig and upgrade to one of these


----------



## livebynight

Hi guys, after reading the feedback from users on here i decided to go ahead and get a Robobrew. Picked one up today from the LHBS and was surprised to find that it seems they have updated the robobrew!

Mine has litre/gallon markings imprinted to the body of the vessel, which is completely essential and should have been a feature from the first model i think. It also has 4 clamps near the top of the vessel to clamp the lid on what i assume is to be air tight. And the lid itself has a hole in it which looks like it is for an airlock. I am guessing it has been turned into an 'all-in-one' unit now? Although i haven't seen any information online about a revised edition or seen photos of a system with the litre markings or clamps.

Thought i'd give the heads up if anyone else is looking to buy and wants to try purchase a newer model over the old.


----------



## Benn

U sure they didn't cock up and give you a Brau? :lol:


----------



## livebynight

Nope it is a Robo. The fermenter idea might be a bit ambitious. Upon a closer look seems like there is that much space for a yeast cake compared to were the tap outlet is. Perhaps it is just to clamp the lid down and help keep the heat in while mashing.


----------



## bouncingcastle

I have the same version - the only issue with the markings is they are stamped into the front side of the vessel. Not very comfortable to get readings whilst up on a bench


----------



## cliffo

One of the joins on one handle detached from the body of the unit on mine after the last brew.

Awaiting advice from place of purchase where I stand with warranty here.

Unit itself works fine but an unusable handle is a bit of a pain.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Has anyone tried a small batch on the Robo? I'm thinking of doing a 10L batch. The only thing I can think that would hold me back if the immersion chiller might not be submerged in only 10-12L of wort.


----------



## Siborg

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Has anyone tried a small batch on the Robo? I'm thinking of doing a 10L batch. The only thing I can think that would hold me back if the immersion chiller might not be submerged in only 10-12L of wort.


Allow for a couple of litres loss to trub in the kettle and fermenter. Try filling it with water to see if it'll be submerged.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Yep. I'm thinking my boil amount will be 15-16L. I've gone ahead and bought the grain/hops anyway so will just wing it on brew day. All the gear is packed away at the moment and I'm too lazy to check.


----------



## Siborg

Put my third brew down on the weekend with this. Made some significant improvements over previous batches:

I put 6.7Kg of grain in and got 1.064, 1 point lower than the estimated 1.065
I didn't recirculate the whole time. I only did a slow recirculate whenever the element came on. Lid on the whole time. I'm thinking I might invest in some sort of cheap insulation like a yoga mat or something, especially getting into the colder months here in Melbourne.
For mash out, I dumped 1.5 litres of boiling water from the kettle in there and heated right up to 77 degrees (I think my last ones only got up to 73-74). I think this really helped with the sparging time (no rice hulls) as the mash was looser and went through much quicker than the last times. It was slowly recirculating during the heat up to mash out temp, then held for 10 minutes.
I used my grainfather sparge water heater that I got for my birthday. Much easier and safer than climbing a step ladder and pouring multiple pots of 75-77 degree water into the malt pipe!
This is the biggest improvement: Recirculating after the boil to create a whirlpool. I made sure the wort was spinning in the opposite way to which the water was flowing in the chiller and it reduced my chilling times immensely. I got it down to 25 degrees in under 30 minutes. In fact, I think it dropped to under 50 within 5-10 minutes. The way I did it probably wasn't the best. I just had the output hose from the pump angled in such a way that it created a whirlpool on return to the kettle. Only problem with this is that it slipped out and sprayed near boiling wort all over the garage and my hand - lucky it only got a couple of knuckles on my left hand. I have an idea for this, though. I was thinking I could drill a whole about halfway down, fit a threaded, weldless fitting and attach a right angle elbow to it on the inside and a barb on the outside. This way, I could attach the hose to the barb and it would create a much better whirlpool (mine wasn't that great). Thoughts on doing something like this?
I was in such a rush to get finished that I forgot to let the whirlpool finish and settle all the gunk to the bottom, so I inadvertently put it all into the fermenter. Lucky I was using a hop sock so not much hops got in, just a lot of break material.
On the break material, I really want to try a fine mesh screen on top of the grill at the bottom of the malt pipe to prevent anything from falling through. Has anyone tried this or something similar?
All in all, a big step up from previous brews. Looking forward to improving it more.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I brewed my 10L batch yesterday and I'm happy to report the immersion chiller works quite well at this volume. Even though only the last 3-4 coils of the chiller are submerged, it is just as quick (if not quicker) to chill due to the lower volume.

Obviously it was much quick to get to mash temps and also to boiling temp. The Robobrew can certainly handle mini-batches,


----------



## Siborg

Just found this video online. Appears to be a European version of the robo brew:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY0BWtgv6lM

The interesting thing I noted were the hooks on the malt pipe that automatically release once you lift it out of the main pot. I'd love to have a go at adding something like this to make lifting the malt pipe out easier.


----------



## honesmo

Just bought one of these looks like I should have waited for the next generation with the improved malt pipe.


----------



## Andyburgs

So I managed to do my first brew in this the other weekend. And being that it was my first AG brew ever, wasn't sure what to expect and now have a few questions. Reading this topic and others on here has been great.

So my setup is Robobrew, keg King recirc pump, and grain father 16L urn for spare water, hop spider for boiling hops. And I did an ESB recipe kit for my first brew and decided to no chill.

What size is best for grain miling for the Robo brew?
How much water do you mash with? Including dead space.
How long for and when do u stir mash? Just at start? I stirred at start then waited 10-15min before slow recirculation.
For 0min hop additions, how long do you leave them in for before transferring wort to cube? Considering the hop matter pretty much stays in the hop spider.
How long do you mash for? I did 60min.

I may think of more questions later but if someone can help,out with those would be great. I was aiming for a full strength and will end up with a mid strength but oh well. I ended up having to pour approx 1.6L boiling water into my 22L cube because I couldn't squeeze enough air out of it.

All in all it was an enjoyable brew day and by the taste of a little sample out of the fermenter yesterday (been in 1 week), I'm very impressed by this whole AG thing....can't wait to taste the finished product.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Clevo

Hi guys, has anyone maxed out one of these with grain yet? Interested to see if they can actually hold the 8-9kg that they claim.
Cheers


----------



## Siborg

Andyburgs said:


> So my setup is Robobrew, keg King recirc pump, and grain father 16L urn for spare water, hop spider for boiling hops. And I did an ESB recipe kit for my first brew and decided to no chill.


I have pretty much the same setup except I don't have the hop spider and I have been using the chiller after dozens of brews on my previous system no chilling.



Andyburgs said:


> What size is best for grain miling for the Robo brew?


I haven't measured mine, but you want it a bit coarser to avoid slow sparges. Some people have been using rice hulls because they are buying their grain milled from their LHBS and it's too fine. 


Andyburgs said:


> How much water do you mash with? Including dead space.


I've just been mashing with 14-15L, then sparging until I reach pre-boil volume of 26-27 litres. This leaves me with about 23L at the end and I get 20-21 into the fermenter.


Andyburgs said:


> How long for and when do u stir mash? Just at start? I stirred at start then waited 10-15min before slow recirculation.


I just stir at the start, then do slow recirc after 10-15 mins. I generally only run the pump when the heater is running, but if you want a hands-off experience, you could just run it slowly the whole time. I have been thinking about stiring halfway through, but I think this might have an effect on clarity. And if recirc is slow enough, it doesn't compact the grain bed too much and allows it to drain reasonably well. The first time I did this, I think I was recircing too fast and long and it took ages to drain and sparge.


Andyburgs said:


> For 0min hop additions, how long do you leave them in for before transferring wort to cube? Considering the hop matter pretty much stays in the hop spider.


When no-chilling, 0 minute hops become 15 minute hops. This is due to the wort being above hop isomerization temperature while it is slowly chilling. The way I used to do my hop additions when I no chilled was take whatever the recipe said, and subtract 15mins. So, 60 min additions become 45min additions, 15 min additions become 0 min additions. Anything that comes out to be a negative number, I used a coffee plunger. Add your addition to a large plunger (mine is a litre), with 500mL boiling water, then wait a minute, plunge and pour (while hot) straight into the fermenter - this is after a few days of fermentation, so that the produced CO2 doesn't take all the hop volatiles with them while they escape the ferment. Depending on the recipe, I'd add a second lot of 500mL boiling water to the plunger, stir, wait 10 minutes, then plunge and add that as well.
If this sounds like a pain (which it could be), it was for me. So I didn't make a lot of brews with late hopping instead. Others have had reasonable amounts of success with cube hopping for late hop aroma and flavour. Going OT here, so ask around for more advice for late hops and no chilling.
Suffice to say, my 0 min additions are added at 0 mins, and my elements are turned off straight away and the water starts running through my chiller which is already in the boilpot which santises it. 


Andyburgs said:


> How long do you mash for? I did 60min.


Your standard, single infusion mash is fine at 60mins. I through in a mash out at 77 degrees for 10 minutes. Ramp it up to 77, wait 10 mins, then lift your malt pipe out and sparge with 77 deg water. This helps loosen the mash up a little and stops conversion.



Clevo said:


> Hi guys, has anyone maxed out one of these with grain yet? Interested to see if they can actually hold the 8-9kg that they claim.
> Cheers


I put 6.7kg in to get 1.064 on my last batch. Thinking of trying something a little higher, but it's gonna be tight. For bigger grain bills, I was considering doing a simultaneous mash in my GF urn BIAB method. Then I'd just sparge with a couple of litres from a pot on the stove. There should be enough pre-boil volume between the two. Not sure about this yet. I may try a bigger beer in the robobrew alone and see how I go.


----------



## Mr B

Nice post Siborg

Edit: A question, do you know what gravity you get in the mash before you sparge?


----------



## Andyburgs

Cheers siborg, very informative, I'm sure the more brews I do the more confident I will be in what I'm doing.


----------



## Siborg

Mr B said:


> Nice post Siborg
> 
> Edit: A question, do you know what gravity you get in the mash before you sparge?


I have a final total OG estimate. I've hit them in the last two brews +/- 2 points. I probably should work this out, but it's not too much of a concern to me.


----------



## Clevo

Siborg said:


> I put 6.7kg in to get 1.064 on my last batch. Thinking of trying something a little higher, but it's gonna be tight. For bigger grain bills, I was considering doing a simultaneous mash in my GF urn BIAB method. Then I'd just sparge with a couple of litres from a pot on the stove. There should be enough pre-boil volume between the two. Not sure about this yet. I may try a bigger beer in the robobrew alone and see how I go.


Keen to hear how much you fit in the Robobrew if you try it that way and if the efficiency goes out the window?

Cheers


----------



## chaositic

Hey guys, thought I'd throw up a quick Robobrewday and thoughts after first run with the machine.

Was feeling a bit scottish with my insulation mat today. Mashing was fine, my magnietic drive pump didn't arrive in time so no recirc for the maiden run. Missed my OG by 2 points, still trying to tune my volumes being a brand new bit of kit. I ended up with and extra liter in the FV so thats where my gravity points went so I'm not fussed in the slightest.

Sparge was a bit slow, I had a fair whack of wheat in my grain bill so that may have contributed or I just have no idea how to manage a grain bed coming from BIAB.

Still had the pulley and tie off hook from brew in a bagging so I decided to bypass the fiddly cake rack that it comes with which causes lots of people problems and hang it from the roof.







Boil vigor was better than I predicted with 2.4kw combined elements, nearly had a big boil over even with staying short of the max fill line. The photo below was after it was under control and rolling along nicely. 







I tried using the keg king hop spider to keep the hop matter contained but as you can see below it clogged up in about 2 minutes flat and became as still as a swimming pool, so my utilisation will probably be low on this one. Next time they're freeballin and I'll pay more attention to keeping trub and crap out of the FV.






I decided to test the stainless chiller it comes with as I didn't feel like rewinding my copper one to fit the new vessel. It worked quite well, my groundwater was about 29-30 degrees so obviously wasn't going to hit pitching temps this side of the new millenium but got down to ~35 in about bout half an hour, i wasn't running a timer just glancing at my watch when the mood struck.






Clean up was a breeze and from start to finish including cleaning the brewday was about 4.5 hours. I'll be adding a pump and put together a sparge arm or drill a shower head through the lid.

Decent bit of kit for the price. I really really wish I'd seen this earlier in my brewing career before I spent hundreds on giant pots, rolls of copper and chinese elements with plug fittings that don't exist on planet earth anymore.

Anywho if you're leaning toward 1v all grain or want to ditch your mouldy BIAB bag for something shinier, this thing is an easy way to beerify your tap water.


----------



## VanDrago

paulmclaren11 said:


> Anyone had issues with the temp display going blank?
> 
> Did another test last night with the pump, all was going well and as I got to mash out temps the blue back light was there but no numbers. I turned it off from the mains and then it was fine....
> 
> Have let my LHBS know - hopefully just a one off glitch...


Yeah I had that happening on day one. I had pump connected to the same power board as Robobrew and as soon as I switched the pump off the display went blank. Then I moved pump to a different power socket and the problem disappeared.


----------



## VanDrago

Elz said:


> About to put down my third brew over the Aus day long weekend. To date my brewhouse efficiency has been realy poor. Is there a consensus yet as to what size the grains should be crushed? Currently milling at 1.1 mm but plan to increased to 1.25mm. I recirc the wort with a pump and I guess there is a fine balance b/w efficiency and also having a stuck sparge
> .



I have tried this Malt conditioning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYnbvPu4m78, seems to be doing a job. Never had a stuck sparge yet.


----------



## Ghizo

paulmclaren11 said:


> Anyone had issues with the temp display going blank?
> 
> Did another test last night with the pump, all was going well and as I got to mash out temps the blue back light was there but no numbers. I turned it off from the mains and then it was fine....
> 
> Have let my LHBS know - hopefully just a one off glitch...


I have had this happen during cooling, i had my chiller running off water tank, I am pretty sure it was the pump, I plugged the water tank pump into a different power point instead of a power board with the robo grew and seemed to work fine.
But I am watching it


----------



## Exile

First brew with the Robobrew down

The Recipe








My system 








Crushed grain and no stuck recirculation








Almost a boil over








After mashing in with 14.60 litres of water, it clearly wasn't enough so I took it up to 20 litres.
Once the mash was done, I then took off the 5 litres I added previously and sparged with 13 litres of water.

So I then had 27 litres pre boil and a pre boil gravity of 1.049.









After the 60 minutes boil I ended up with a post boil gravity of 1.054.









I emptied the RoboBrew and had 21 litres in the fermenter without needing to touch the deadspace.

So after the first brew, I slightly need to adjust a couple things.


----------



## altone

dropbear85 said:


> used the robobrew to cook some ribs sous vide style today before smoking them in the Weber. turned out wonderful!
> This baby just doubled in value!
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1458371166.038588.jpg
> 
> 
> Oh yes! so it's a kitchen appliance.
> Maybe i can get this past the wife after all
> 
> I was looking at the Grainfather but found this just before I bought one, seems like with a recirc pump it will do just what I want.
> 
> My old big AG system has been sitting in storage as I just don't have space in the new home to brew that way.
> The smallish brew size on this is no issue for me as it will give me more opportunity to experiment and I don't drink that much anymore.
> 
> The Swedish one with clips on the grain pipe is a far better option imo and I might have to modify the Aus one to be similar -
> The chiller would end up on Fleabay or in the bin and I'll use my nice plate chiller instead.
> 
> Yay! no more cans, back to all grain, thanks to the sous vide unit i'll be buying for the kitchen.
> The wife loves MKR and Masterchef.


----------



## chaositic

I can't help but notice your robot has lid clips is this from keg king or an overseas model? Any changes with the malt pipe?


----------



## Exile

MIK-E said:


> I can't help but notice your robot has lid clips is this from keg king or an overseas model? Any changes with the malt pipe?


Its the keg King updated version.
It has litre and gallon markings in the body of the vessel, a hole in the lid for a airlock or a sparging arm.
Unfortunately it hasn't got the malt pipe clips like in the above video


----------



## Exile

I have finished tweaking my Robobrew Beersmith Profile and believe this is close as i'm going to get.
Thanks to Gash from cellardweller.net for his Beersmith Profile that I could start with :beerbang: 

View attachment RoboBrew Equipment Profile.bsmx


View attachment RoboBrew Mash Profile.bsmx


----------



## blotto

Exile said:


> So I then had 27 litres pre boil and a pre boil gravity of 1.049.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After the 60 minutes boil I ended up with a post boil gravity of 1.054.


Hi Exile,
I could be wrong here but I've been told to not trust the sg readings in a lot of hydrometers as the scales are based on an old flawed BYO article. If you put 14 brix into a few online calculators you'll find its around 1.057 sg. I always use the brix and use an online calculator.


----------



## Exile

Wort said:


> Hi Exile,
> I could be wrong here but I've been told to not trust the sg readings in a lot of hydrometers as the scales are based on an old flawed BYO article. If you put 14 brix into a few online calculators you'll find its around 1.057 sg. I always use the brix and use an online calculator.


ahh ok, I will have to check it out.


----------



## Ghizo

Exile said:


> I have finished tweaking my Robobrew Beersmith Profile and believe this is close as i'm going to get.
> Thanks to Gash from cellardweller.net for his Beersmith Profile that I could start with :beerbang:


Been playing a bit with mine as well, 
I only have beersmith mobile, can't open this is it possible to get a screen shot of you profile?


----------



## Exile

Ghizo said:


> Been playing a bit with mine as well,
> I only have beersmith mobile, can't open this is it possible to get a screen shot of you profile?



here ya go ghizo


----------



## Ghizo

Thanks for that


----------



## Ghizo

Just finished my fourth batch on the robo brew, the more I use it the more I like it, 4 1/2 hours today with a 90 minute boil including cleanup.
And the best part is the beer is good.

Each time I do something different, today no hop spider, I don't think I will ever use it again. I always looked at it on previous brw days noticed can there was little water movement in the hop spider, 
After 4 brews I am able to predict where my gravity reading will be, just can't get beersmith to give me those numbers, will try exiles profile above and see how it goes,


----------



## VanDrago

Robobrew set-up with lid closed during mashing.


----------



## Dinham

I did my first Robobrew (and first all grain) batch a couple of weeks ago. I had 2 problems. Firstly the vorlauf and sparge took ages because the grain bed took ages to drain though. The sparge took like 40 minutes to go through (it was still coming through after 40 mins but the flow had slowed quite a lot). This was with a 1.2mm crush from my LHBS. They sell Robos and apparently I was the first robo customer to report this issue with the crush to them. So who knows. Maybe I did something wrong.

Also, I ended up with a heap of hop matter in my fermenter. Heaps. I didn't use a hop or a sock. I did whirlpool but I guess it looks like not enough. I've seen some people saying their Robo has 3.5L of dead space at the bottom. Mine has 1.75L. I have the newer model with the top clips so I assumed that they'd maybe lowered the tap since the first model. I guess this lower amount of deadpsace might increase the importance of getting a really good whirlpool going. 

I'm not overly fussed about beer being clear so I didn't worry about it and I kegged it yesterday. Turns out that it's so thick with hop particulate I can't even get it out of the keg. It just instantly clogs.

Not really a great first all grain experience! I thought I was super prepared.

Just FYI for people: the hole in the lid of the new one is not for an airlock. The lid has a vent in it in another spot, so you couldn't use a robo as a fermenter.


----------



## Dinham

Apparently I can't edit my above post. Meant to say: "I didn't use a hop spider or sock".

Just looking at my unit compared to the product photos from Keg King. My unit's tap is about 2cm from the base, where it's a good 4cm or so in the original units. You can see the lower tap in VanDrogo's photo.

I'm wondering if a T shaped bazooka screen might help me out with reducing the hop matter.


----------



## honesmo

Dinham said:


> I did my first Robobrew (and first all grain) batch a couple of weeks ago. I had 2 problems. Firstly the vorlauf and sparge took ages because the grain bed took ages to drain though. The sparge took like 40 minutes to go through (it was still coming through after 40 mins but the flow had slowed quite a lot). This was with a 1.2mm crush from my LHBS. They sell Robos and apparently I was the first robo customer to report this issue with the crush to them. So who knows. Maybe I did something wrong.
> 
> Also, I ended up with a heap of hop matter in my fermenter. Heaps. I didn't use a hop or a sock. I did whirlpool but I guess it looks like not enough. I've seen some people saying their Robo has 3.5L of dead space at the bottom. Mine has 1.75L. I have the newer model with the top clips so I assumed that they'd maybe lowered the tap since the first model. I guess this lower amount of deadpsace might increase the importance of getting a really good whirlpool going.
> 
> I'm not overly fussed about beer being clear so I didn't worry about it and I kegged it yesterday. Turns out that it's so thick with hop particulate I can't even get it out of the keg. It just instantly clogs.
> 
> Not really a great first all grain experience! I thought I was super prepared.
> 
> Just FYI for people: the hole in the lid of the new one is not for an airlock. The lid has a vent in it in another spot, so you couldn't use a robo as a fermenter.


Ill start by saying I'm fairly new to all grain but have the same Robobrew and have had similar issues.

How much grain did you have in there? What temp was your sparge water? I've noticed my sparge slows down in proportion to how much grain I put in there goes at a good rate at around 4.5kg but really slows around 6 so I set it on the way to boil while I wait. I also try not to compact it by sitting too much water on top that speeds it up.

Did you give the whirlpool a good chance to settle then slowly drain it to not disturb the sediment? I've got the same unit and ended up spewing a good inch worth of crap into my fermenter on my second brew but managed to leave most of it behind when moving to the keg.by pouring it off above the sediment.

Don't worry about it all grains a sharp learning curve I learned more in 5+ hours of my first brew then weeks of researching beforehand. Each time goes a bit smoother and the beer gets better.


----------



## VanDrago

Dinham said:


> Apparently I can't edit my above post. Meant to say: "I didn't use a hop spider or sock".
> 
> Just looking at my unit compared to the product photos from Keg King. My unit's tap is about 2cm from the base, where it's a good 4cm or so in the original units. You can see the lower tap in VanDrogo's photo.
> 
> I'm wondering if a T shaped bazooka screen might help me out with reducing the hop matter.


I used bazooka screen few times and it gets clogged up. It can be frustrating during wort transfer. Now I use brew bag during hop addition. It's big enough for a proper hop isomerisation.


----------



## ctagz

Are you guys new to all grain or did you come from BIAB? SOunds like youre not setting the grain bed, and just running off your wort thru the tap too fast in generall... Good things take time yaknow

Um so with the vourloauf, go very slow, im talking a Litre/Min for the first few. This get the flour and small grist stuch throughout the grainbed and not all pulled to the bottom.

With your whirpooling I use whirlfloc to clump that sutff together and drop it. Even if you dont have it, Whirlpool with spoon/paddle, then let it sit for 30min to all drop into a cone. Then once again open up the tap slowly so its not dragging the trub (hotbreak/hops) in. I dont have a robobrew, but if the tap has a threaded pipe (1/2" i assume) buy an elbow and point it up, this way it will not suck up the trub, yes you will miss out on a litre or two. If you put it sideways you can make it whirpool with a recirc pump easy peasy. Anyway you can experiment with ideal placement.

Im assuming you dont have a recirc pump (i just got one, its a cool toy and worth the investment)

So now even if you screw up filling your fermenter, rack of the top into your keg, all those hops and break settle in the fermenter. Theres no way enough should've made it into your keg to block it. I have a glass carbouy so i can easily see when activity has finished and time to transfer/bottle. If you have plastic, get one of those "sediment reducer" make sure the slit is pointing up and it will not suck trub off the bottom of the fermenter 

Hope some of this helps


----------



## Exile

I have been using the Mangrove Jack's Hop Spider and don't have any problems with hop matter etc going into the fermenter after a whirlpool. http://mangrovejacks.com/products/hop-spider


----------



## CmdrRyekr

Gotta go a bigger vessel mate! 40L is the magic batch size, two kegs and a couple of longies from that - perfect!


----------



## CheekyPanda

Hey,

So I've bought a Robobrew and just did a practise run on getting it up to temp etc.

Planning on doing the 1st brew on Mothers Day so will put an update then.

Going on todays efforts it took approx 40min to get to 73 and then from 70 it took just under 30 min at an air temp of around 20-22.

Are those figures standard?


----------



## ctagz

Those times sound about right.

remember the more water, the more energy it will take to heat up. You can only put in so much energy (2400w? 1900+500?) so more water more time. The more dense the liquid (more sugar, higher SG) the longer it will take as well.


----------



## quadbox

What are people using at the return end when recirculating? just resting the hose on top of the mash, or some sort of sparge arm or dish?


----------



## cliffo

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> just resting the hose on top of the mash,


This.

Seems to do the job well enough.


----------



## Exile

cliffo said:


> This.
> 
> Seems to do the job well enough.


+1
but when sparging I use a colander


----------



## ctagz

yeah i rest the hose on the colander on top of the grainbed


----------



## VanDrago

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> What are people using at the return end when recirculating? just resting the hose on top of the mash, or some sort of sparge arm or dish?


I have a sparge arm through the hole of the lid. This way temperature is more stable.


----------



## Dinham

Thanks for the tips ctagz. Yes this is my first all grain. Never did BIAB. I didn't let my whirlpool settle for anything like 30 mins. It was more like 2. I was concerned about getting it into the fermenter ASAP to avoid infection on the second brew tomorrow I'll let it settle for 30 mins. I used whirlflock.


----------



## Dinham

I don't really understand pumps with a system like this. I'm a total newbie but from what I do understand the point is a slight bump in efficiency and better temp consistence through the malt during the mash. My robobrew is wearing a yoga mat for insulation and when I mashed with the lid on my ChefAlarm was reading about a 1 to 1.5C diffence in temp at the top of the malt pipe to the robo's reading at the bottom. Is it really worth the added complexity for such a small temp difference?

When designing anything I'll always avoid complexity unless I can see it adding tangible benefits.


----------



## Dinham

Double post.


----------



## Dinham

honesmo said:


> How much grain did you have in there? What temp was your sparge water? I've noticed my sparge slows down in proportion to how much grain I put in there goes at a good rate at around 4.5kg but really slows around 6 so I set it on the way to boil while I wait. I also try not to compact it by sitting too much water on top that speeds it up.
> 
> Did you give the whirlpool a good chance to settle then slowly drain it to not disturb the sediment? I've got the same unit and ended up spewing a good inch worth of crap into my fermenter on my second brew but managed to leave most of it behind when moving to the keg.by pouring it off above the sediment.


The grain bill was about 4.6 kg. I think I must have compacted it at during volaf (I was aiming for 1 inch of water but I may have put more). I think that mashing out at 77C might help loosen things up.

I didn't give my whirlpool enough time to settle it seems. Was concerned about infection seeing as it had cooled.


----------



## cliffo

I much prefer the Robo operating with a pump. A cheap "upgrade" and well worth it.

I've found temps to be much more consistent throughout the grain bed and the addition of a pump also allows you to get something resembling a whirlpool going whilst chilling to make that process much more efficient.

A mash out around 76-77 is ideal. Be sure to ramp the temp up on the Robo to mash out temps before sparging as well.

I don't whirlpool anymore (other than the action of running the pump whilst chilling).

I chill then let the wort sit for 20-30 minutes before emptying the wort into the fermenter. I tend to get mostly clear wort doing things this way.


----------



## Dinham

cliffo said:


> I've found temps to be much more consistent throughout the grain bed and the addition of a pump also allows you to get something resembling a whirlpool going whilst chilling to make that process much more efficient.


Can I ask what kind of temp variation in the bed you consider consistent? .1C? .5C? 1C? 2C?


----------



## Dinham

I realized on my first batch that if you want to get it cooled in any reasonable amount of time you have to stir pretty much constantly. I can see the appeal of a pump meaning you don't have to do that manually.


----------



## Dinham

cliffo said:


> I don't whirlpool anymore (other than the action of running the pump whilst chilling).


Do you have the original model with 3.5L dead space or the newer one with 1.75L? 

The would obviously effect the need to whirlpool quite a lot.


----------



## cliffo

Dinham said:


> Do you have the original model with 3.5L dead space or the newer one with 1.75L?


I've got the original model so I guess it would make a bit of a difference.


----------



## takai

Exile said:


> Almost a boil over


Slightly off topic, but is that the Mangrove Jacks hop spider? If so how do you find it, and where did you get it from?


----------



## Exile

takai said:


> Slightly off topic, but is that the Mangrove Jacks hop spider? If so how do you find it, and where did you get it from?


Yep got it from here http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/mangrove-jacks-hop-spider
Does the job well and doesn't tend to block up like the KegKing one.


----------



## Dinham

Right well I just did my second robobrew batch. I avoided the compacted grain bed issue I had on my first run by using 300g of rice hulls and mashing out at 77C. I poured my vorlaf very, very slowly. Flowed nice any easy this time.

The big problem I had was I ended up with a metric ****-tonne of hop matter in my fermenter, once again. I stirred a whirlpool about as vigorously as humanly possible and let it sit for 30 minutes. It looked nice and settled / clear on the top. As I started (very, very slowly) draining into the fermenter there was a heap of hop matter coming through, so I sanitized a kitchen strainer and ran it through that. After the first couple of liters it came through nice and clear, and then after about 10 liters it got real cloudy again. Took about 40 minutes to run it through the strainer as I needed to constantly unclog it with a sanitized spoon. This recipe had 110g of hops in the boil. I guess I’m going to have to buy a hop spider or figure out a racking arm solution. Kind of annoying but I don’t see any way around it. I’m going to have to siphon this batch out of my bucket fermenter and as I’m not a carboy user I don’t currently own an auto siphon.

Interestingly, as with my first batch, I’m down about 2L into the fermenter from what I was expecting. On the first batch I assumed it was from the added absorption of a very clogged grain bed, but that didn’t happen this time. I’m using BeerSmith for my calculations and I’ve plugged in accurate dead space and boil off. I’ve not gotten better than 65% efficiency so far. Was aiming for 0.060 and even with my missing 2L I ended up on 0.056.

I guess I’ll try a pump to see if that helps with efficiency.

I'm not really loving my robobrew experience at this stage.


----------



## keifer33

Can you post up a screenshot of your Beersmith profile?


----------



## SBOB

Dinham said:


> Right well I just did my second robobrew batch. I avoided the compacted grain bed issue I had on my first run by using 300g of rice hulls and mashing out at 77C. I poured my vorlaf very, very slowly. Flowed nice any easy this time.
> 
> The big problem I had was I ended up with a metric ****-tonne of hop matter in my fermenter, once again. I stirred a whirlpool about as vigorously as humanly possible and let it sit for 30 minutes. It looked nice and settled / clear on the top. As I started (very, very slowly) draining into the fermenter there was a heap of hop matter coming through, so I sanitized a kitchen strainer and ran it through that. After the first couple of liters it came through nice and clear, and then after about 10 liters it got real cloudy again. Took about 40 minutes to run it through the strainer as I needed to constantly unclog it with a sanitized spoon. This recipe had 110g of hops in the boil. I guess I’m going to have to buy a hop spider or figure out a racking arm solution. Kind of annoying but I don’t see any way around it. I’m going to have to siphon this batch out of my bucket fermenter and as I’m not a carboy user I don’t currently own an auto siphon.
> 
> Interestingly, as with my first batch, I’m down about 2L into the fermenter from what I was expecting. On the first batch I assumed it was from the added absorption of a very clogged grain bed, but that didn’t happen this time. I’m using BeerSmith for my calculations and I’ve plugged in accurate dead space and boil off. I’ve not gotten better than 65% efficiency so far. Was aiming for 0.060 and even with my missing 2L I ended up on 0.056.
> 
> I guess I’ll try a pump to see if that helps with efficiency.
> 
> I'm not really loving my robobrew experience at this stage.


i would ignore efficiency for now and just work on getting the process sorted..making beer isn't suppose to be a pain in the a*s (well, mostly not)

- If you aim to do hop forward beers, a hop sock/hop spider is a decent investment especially if you are worried about a bit of hops making its way into the fermenter (personally, for your first few batches I wouldnt stress it..it will settle out into the crap you leave in the fermenter anyway. )
- calculate your efficiency for the last brew and use that on your next beer smith recipe and see if you hit the predicted numbers. The difference between a 60% efficiency and 80% efficiency in a robobrew batch would be about $1 worth of grain. I'll take consistently repeatable results for a $1 over trying to reach some arbitrary efficiency (especially as you are having the brew shop do the crush you have less control over one of those variables)


----------



## ctagz

Yeah robo brew looks great. All systems have teething issues. Regarding efficiency, your crush will have most effect, then secondly different brands have found to give higher efficiency too (gladfield was mentioned specifically). Ive never really worried about the colour/opaqueness of wort going into fermenter. in the end it all settles and clear beer off the top.

you could try skimming break off the top before the boil. It looks like coffee crema, skim it out and you should have less break in the bottom after boil. Also didnt read if you used whirlfloc, stuff is cheap and worth a try, I noticed a difference.

Ive read that some of the break material is beneficial for yeast nutrition. At the end of the day Ive made nice beers with cloudy af wort. Im currently shooting for 70% and not fussed, i just wanna avoid astringent flavours so im not going hard on the sparge either


----------



## Dinham

keifer33 said:


> Can you post up a screenshot of your Beersmith profile?


Here it is. Any advice appreciated! Keep in mind I have the newer version with lower tap giving me 1.75L of dead space and not 3.5L.


----------



## Dinham

ctagz said:


> Yeah robo brew looks great. All systems have teething issues. Regarding efficiency, your crush will have most effect, then secondly different brands have found to give higher efficiency too (gladfield was mentioned specifically). Ive never really worried about the colour/opaqueness of wort going into fermenter. in the end it all settles and clear beer off the top.
> 
> you could try skimming break off the top before the boil. It looks like coffee crema, skim it out and you should have less break in the bottom after boil. Also didnt read if you used whirlfloc, stuff is cheap and worth a try, I noticed a difference.
> 
> Ive read that some of the break material is beneficial for yeast nutrition. At the end of the day Ive made nice beers with cloudy af wort. Im currently shooting for 70% and not fussed, i just wanna avoid astringent flavours so im not going hard on the sparge either


My malts were:

Gladfield Crystal Dark Malt
Gladfield Ale Malt
Briess Rye Malt
Briess Caramel Malt 60L

And the crush was 1.2mm from my LHBS. Should I go courser? Finer?

I did use Whirlfoc.

On my first batch I didn't worry about how much hop matter got into the fermenter as I don't really care about clarity, but because I was using a bucket fermenter with a tap at the bottom, even after a 3 day cold crash I still go so much trub into my keg that it clogged the liquid out poppet. So now I'm very aware of how much hop matter is getting into the fermenter!


----------



## Dinham

SBOB said:


> i would ignore efficiency for now and just work on getting the process sorted..making beer isn't suppose to be a pain in the a*s (well, mostly not)
> 
> - If you aim to do hop forward beers, a hop sock/hop spider is a decent investment especially if you are worried about a bit of hops making its way into the fermenter (personally, for your first few batches I wouldnt stress it..it will settle out into the crap you leave in the fermenter anyway. )
> - calculate your efficiency for the last brew and use that on your next beer smith recipe and see if you hit the predicted numbers. The difference between a 60% efficiency and 80% efficiency in a robobrew batch would be about $1 worth of grain. I'll take consistently repeatable results for a $1 over trying to reach some arbitrary efficiency (especially as you are having the brew shop do the crush you have less control over one of those variables)


I'm only stressing about the hop matter making it into the fermenter because I don't want clogged kegs again! That was a pain in the ass. I guess I need to either get a spider or sihpon off the top rather than try and use my fermenter's tap.

Is 110g a large amount of hops in a boil?


----------



## SBOB

Dinham said:


> Is 110g a large amount of hops in a boil?


I would put it in the 'above average amount' category


----------



## quadbox

Dinham said:


> I'm only stressing about the hop matter making it into the fermenter because I don't want clogged kegs again! That was a pain in the ass. I guess I need to either get a spider or sihpon off the top rather than try and use my fermenter's tap.
> 
> Is 110g a large amount of hops in a boil?


Which yeast was that with? Pellet hops? or are you using flowers or plugs? I pretty frequently dry hop directly in the fermenter, just throwing pellets in there bare, and havent had issues with a blocked corny keg in years. Just crash chill it and the hop matter settles out faster than the yeast does, the yeast cake traps it


----------



## Exile

Dinham said:


> Here it is. Any advice appreciated! Keep in mind I have the newer version with lower tap giving me 1.75L of dead space and not 3.5L.


You might want to watch Gash's Video on working out the ROBOBREW - GRAINFATHER Water Calculations - Mash & Sparge or you can try my Beersmith Profile here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88340-keg-king-robobrew-35l-single-vessel-brewery/?p=1368088

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQd7KOTBHIA


----------



## Elz

With the 'original' RB and 3.5 lt dead space I reckon 100+ grams of hops is not an issue. The newer RB ?may struggle with this amount of hops. I often use 150 plus grams of hops with no problem (probably have less brewhouse efficiency)
Cheers 
Elz


----------



## CheekyPanda

So I've done two brews now,

The whole process is pretty easy. Chilling is the biggest hassle.

On the second attempt I jammed an esky full of ice and made a slurry. Then coiled the hose in it so the full hose apart from where it connects to the chiller and tap was in the esky. This worked much quicker in bringing the temperature down much quicker but it still struggled once it got to about 25.

The other issue I have is that both times my OG was below what Beersmith said I should get by about 10 points. Is this because i don't recirc with a pump during mash?

I am sparging with about 3ltrs of 77 degree water after vorlauf.

Apart from just upping the grain bill to get the target gravity is there something I should be doing?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## TwoCrows

Quote: I am sparging with about 3ltrs of 77 degree water after vorlauf.

Are you using the Robobrew as a mash tun? 

Recirculating your wort thru the grain bed and removing your wort into a secondary vessel and then sparging ?? This is Vorlauf.

My understanding using the Robobrew ( single vessel) is after mashing time is over you only lift the grain tube and sparge.
Sounds like you require more sparge water,You need to rinse the grain more , have you looked at the above post, # 283. Gash slug and his water use table.

From what I have viewed and read regarding the Robobrew , recirculating the wort via a pump to get flow thru the grain and even conversion temperatures is the way to go.
If you want to have multiply mash in temperatures , then recalculation is needed.
Protein rest , mash , mash out. Then sparge.


----------



## CheekyPanda

Yeah I'm running it back through the grain bed and then draining it into a big pot. I'm only doing 10ltr batches as I only have the small coopers fermenter. I then sparge into the robobrew and then re-add the stuff I've drained off. 

I'm not sure what the technical term for that would be, or even if I should do it that way!


----------



## TwoCrows

Dinham , When you transfer your wort to the fermenter you could try using a strainer of even the hop spider. Control the transfer of wort and if necessary stop and clean strainer and continue, should be able to stop a lot of unwanted for little extra work.

Just a thought....


----------



## Dinham

TwoCrows said:


> Dinham , When you transfer your wort to the fermenter you could try using a strainer of even the hop spider. Control the transfer of wort and if necessary stop and clean strainer and continue, should be able to stop a lot of unwanted for little extra work.
> 
> Just a thought....


Cheers TwoCrows. That's actually what I did on my second batch (mentioned one page back). Now it's all settled out I've realised I do have far less hop matter than in the first batch, so it's been somewhat successful.

I was trying to keep my operation as stripped back as possible but I am going to have to add a hop spider. I like IPAs.


----------



## TwoCrows

Sorry mate I missed that you did use a strainer to help out reducing hop matter.
I read all the pages pretty quick and missed that.

I really want to step into AG brewing and as stated this is the cheapest unit on the market.
Get your mill of grains around 1.2 mm , maybe som rice hulls to help sparge

I still have concerns that there is not enough room in the vessel for a boil and 23 litre fermentation. That's what I am looking for !!

I do understand that you can add water to adjust up to 22 - 23 litres as long as you can achieve 1060 with 20-21 post boil in your fermenter.

Dinham IPA' s rock.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

CheekyPanda said:


> Yeah I'm running it back through the grain bed and then draining it into a big pot. I'm only doing 10ltr batches as I only have the small coopers fermenter. I then sparge into the robobrew and then re-add the stuff I've drained off.
> 
> I'm not sure what the technical term for that would be, or even if I should do it that way!


I think you definitely need to be re-circulating your wort during mash (even if only manually every 15mins with a jug). I have also found that agitating/stirring the grain 2-3 times during the mash helps me hit my target OG. Just make sure you do this before your last re-circ so that you can clear out the wort somewhat.

If you just did the above along with sparge and didn't worry about the other stuff you are doing you should be able to hit your numbers.


----------



## CheekyPanda

Thanks for the tips Bob.

I'll change up how I'm doing it and report back.


----------



## mkstalen

Anyone got a line on when the bigger version might be available?


----------



## buckerooni

Rang KK about a week ago, still in prototype stage was my understanding, with no ETA on shipping the final product, 2-3 months away at least.

Getting impatient, I'm gonna DIY one instead, with brauduino controller and a 100L pot to build my own 1V recirc.


----------



## Dinham

buckerooni said:


> Rang KK about a week ago, still in prototype stage was my understanding, with no ETA on shipping the final product, 2-3 months away at least.
> 
> Getting impatient, I'm gonna DIY one instead, with brauduino controller and a 100L pot to build my own 1V recirc.


This has been the reply for at least 6 months.


----------



## Siborg

I put a touch over 7Kg of grains in this the other day with 20L of strike water. It was cutting it fine. Wouldn't want to put too much more than 8Kg in this.

The thing I noted was I lost out massively on efficiency. My previous brews were heaps better. I haven't done the maths, but I was estimating 1.069-1.070 and only got 1.062. The last few I've done I've been within 1-2 points. The only other thing I did differently was slightly more mash in water than normal. I think, the most I've gone is 18L with 6ish Kg of grain. But if you look at it as a ratio, I normally shoot for 3litres per kilo. So maybe I was a tad under? I can't remember which way grist to water ratio affects efficiency....


----------



## Stu Brew

Just finished my second brew with the Robobrew. Easy enough. Got my winch hooked up so I dont have to lift silly amounts of wet grain. 

Just one thing. Has anyone had trouble getting their robobrew passed 100 degrees? The ambient temp is around 15 atm. I have done two boils and both of them have not gone any higher on the digital guage passed 100.....I have no insulation on yet but Ill add some. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem?


----------



## gap

was the boil vigorous? 
How high above sea level is the Adelaide Hills?????


----------



## Stu Brew

gap said:


> was the boil vigorous?
> How high above sea level is the Adelaide Hills?????


Yeah it was a vigerous boil. Ive been using the wifes deep fry temp guage and its been sitting on a steady 102 at the top.

We're about 400m above sea level here and im running it in a shed with 3 phase power running off a 25amp fuse so power shouldnt be a problem....although the shed wiring is a tad dodgy!

Give me a min Ill dig up a photo....


----------



## Stu Brew

Its decent. I was just wondering if people have had trouble in low air temps before? I can set it to 140 and it wont show hotter than 100 well hasnt so far with no insulation and ambient temps below 18degrees.


----------



## cliffo

At 400m above sea level the boiling point of water is about 98.5 degrees.

That boil looks fine to me.


----------



## Exile

Doing a brew now
Mine doesn't start to boil till 103°


Accurate Altimeter app 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.arlabsmobile.altimeter&hl=en

boil


----------



## Stu Brew

cliffo said:


> At 400m above sea level the boiling point of water is about 98.5 degrees.
> 
> That boil looks fine to me.


Ah-ha......yeah didnt think of that hey.....thanks mate. 100 should be fine they


----------



## Stu Brew

Exile said:


> Doing a brew now
> Mine doesn't start to boil till 103°
> 
> 
> Accurate Altimeter app
> 
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.arlabsmobile.altimeter&hl=en
> 
> boil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Accurate Altimeter.png


392m mate cheers!!


----------



## Exile

Anyone have problems with surface rust on the lid?




A mate of mine recommended this stuff to me http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/innogel-b450-organic-cleaning-product-for-stainless-steel

1 hour after applying it




Highly recommend it...... no affiliation blah blah blah


----------



## Adr_0

So a mate has asked about Grainfather vs Robobrew. RB has caught his eye due to the lower price, but he's going in with a mate so it might not be that big an issue.

Sounds like there are a couple of niggling issues, and maybe a couple of small mods required to get the best out of it. For somebody new to brewing, are people thinking the Robobrew is solid or would people go with the Grainfather? Apologies if this isn't the appropriate place to ask the question...


----------



## AJS2154

Exile said:


> Anyone have problems with surface rust on the lid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rust.jpg
> 
> A mate of mine recommended this stuff to me http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/innogel-b450-organic-cleaning-product-for-stainless-steel
> 
> 1 hour after applying it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no rust.jpg
> 
> Highly recommend it...... no affiliation blah blah blah


Hey Exile,

I am a bit of a cleaning nazi......OCD issues. Anyhow, when I finish a brew day I clean everything thoroughly, and all my stainless steel gear gets a going over with my *all time favourite product*; Barman's Friend. It is designed specifically for stainless. A largish container costs maybe $8-10 and it lasts forever. Make everything moist and use a soft cloth to rub the powder onto surfaces. I will bet when you use that stuff any issues with surface rust will be prevented.

See you, Anthony


----------



## Dinham

I bought mine as a second from KK. It had some rust in the inside of the lid. I soaked it overnight in PBW and then it scrubbed right off.


----------



## quadbox

I've just bought one and recirc pump/camlocks, after much procrastination. Be nice to be brewing allgrain again in this shoebox of an apartment 

Out of interest what's the outside dimensions of the immersion chiller tubing? I'll see if I can find a compression fitting for it so I can camlock that too


----------



## jayahhdee

Dinham said:


> I bought mine as a second from KK. It had some rust in the inside of the lid. I soaked it overnight in PBW and then it scrubbed right off.


Ohh thats interesting, mind if I ask how much KK charged for a 2nd? Also any idea if they have more?


----------



## quadbox

Mine arrived this morning, just recircing some hot sodium perc while I check everything's working . Also plumbed a camlock outlet into an existing water connection under the kitchen sink, with a tap (for filling and chilling). This is a rental apartment, so needed a solution I can take off when we move, without damaging anything. This seems to work fine

https://goo.gl/photos/7LNTnC3bNrcofkxC8

There's a couple of fittings not shown cause I'm waiting for them off ebay, such as the camlock inlet/outlet connections to the chiller (using 12mm to half inch bsp female compression fittings), and camlocks on the outlet tap


----------



## quadbox

Sorted the one thing that was most annoying me today... 





Camlocks on the inlets and outlets of the immersion chiller


----------



## pat_00

Just did my first beer big beer in my RB over the weekend.

An imperial stout which was supposed to come out at 1.096 OG, but only hit 1.090.

I had to split the mash as I couldn't fit the 10kg of grain in the malt pipe, I think this is where I lost some efficiency as I could only sparge the second mash. Any tips for beers like this? I see myself making a few really strong beers over winter.


----------



## takai

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Sorted the one thing that was most annoying me today...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camlocks on the inlets and outlets of the immersion chiller


Nice. But why not use hose fittings? Would be easier to connect to water pipes then.


----------



## Dinham

takai said:


> Nice. But why not use hose fittings? Would be easier to connect to water pipes then.


Not to mention a heck of a lot cheaper.


----------



## Dinham

jayahhdee said:


> Ohh thats interesting, mind if I ask how much KK charged for a 2nd? Also any idea if they have more?


About $50 off I think. They didn't have any more at the time and I got the impression factory seconds don't come up often.


----------



## quadbox

takai said:


> Nice. But why not use hose fittings? Would be easier to connect to water pipes then.


Already using camlocks for everything else. They're secure, inexpensive, just dont leak, last forever, have bog standard pipe threads, you can visually see they're locked, ...

This setup lets me just rip the camlock silicone hoses off the pump and throw them on the immersion chiller for the boil.

As to connecting to the waterpipe end, I've got a camlock outlet there too, which I also use for filling the robobrew before mashin too



Dinham said:


> Not to mention a heck of a lot cheaper.


Not really? Those are all ebay parts, think it cost me about $12 a side (EDIT - no my bad, $20 a side) including female barbed camlocks for the hose ends... that's about exactly what garden hose fittings cost alone, and I'd still need a 3/4" bsp or 1" bsp to 12mm compression fitting to get the thread on there

EDIT - The elbows are to stop hose kinks btw if that wasnt clear


----------



## Dinham

$40 for two hose connectors? You and I clearly shop at different hardware stores. 

Hose coupling - $2
Hose connector - $2
2x hose clamps - $1.75 ea (something like $0.85 ea if you buy a box of 10)

Max $7.50 per side by my calculations.




I'm not knocking your choices, it just seems like an expensive way to go for me.


----------



## quadbox

Ahh well. To each their own.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

For those that don't have the newer Robo's with volume etchings on the inside, what are you using for water measurements?

I made a crude measuring stick with 1L increments before my first brew but I fear that it may be inaccurate as I ended up with about 1.5L too much wort yesterday and undershot gravity by 11pts. My efficiency numbers from yesterday are included below:


Conversion: 66.4%


Pre-Boil: 84%


Ending Kettle: 64% 


Brew House: 54%

As you can see I appear to be getting decent numbers out of my mash, but I can't quite wrap my head around where the extra water would be (too much sparge water, less lost to evaporation in the boil, too much in the mash, less lost to grain absorption etc) and whether that should affect OG.

Expected Volume - 20L
Volume in Fermenter - 21L
Volume left in Kettle - ~4L - note that this is not the volume of dead space as I turned off the tap once I noticed I some trub starting to come out and then noticed I already had 21L in the Fermenter.

I'm using the water calculations below:

Expected Volume - 20L
Dead space - 3.5L
Boil Off - 3.5L
Grain Absorption (1L/kg) - 5.63L

Mash Volume - 20L
Sparge Volume - 12.63L

Lately I have been placing the malt pipe (still with sparged grain in it) in the left over sparge pot while boiling and periodically pouring left over runnings from the grain back into the kettle to help with efficiency. I can see how this will give me a little more wort, but not a drastic undershoot of gravity - if anything it should be improving my efficiency.

It makes sense to me that I could be measuring out too much sparge water. Does that correlate to the numbers above?

Cheers in advance.


----------



## JayP

Hi. New Perth member here. I am also interested to see the response to this Bob. Your expected volumes are consistent with the Gash Slugg Robobrew Water calculations video.

Overall are people happy with their purchase ? How many have ended up adding a pump ?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

JayP said:


> Hi. New Perth member here. I am also interested to see the response to this Bob. Your expected volumes are consistent with the Gash Slugg Robobrew Water calculations video.
> 
> Overall are people happy with their purchase ? How many have ended up adding a pump ?



I suspect it's my sparge water measurements that are out - just trying to confirm if this would be the absolute reason for missing OG.

I am very happy with the purchase. I have a recirc pump too and given the low cost I believe it is a must have item.


----------



## Dredd

Here is my experience

Prior to initial use I styled a cover from a reflective mat from Daiso and a Yoga mat from Target held in place with luggage and freight straps which held very well. Daiso also sell non-scratch toilet brushes which I find great for cleaning kegs/fermenters etc.

Setup was very straightforward, After cleaning the kit for first use, I heated up 15l of sparge water for later use and proceeded to heat up my mash water.

I measured the dead space and found that there is 1.65l between the base and the spout and started by filling the chamber up to the 20l mark with a strike temp of 71.

Grain addition was straightforward, the temp was reset to 65, but found the temp in the mash was between 63 and 64. I found the mash was quite loose and while it was in the mash stage, I found a few articles showing that while this is not a problem, a longer mash may produce a better result, so I mashed for 1.5 hours. I heated the system up to 75 for the mash out (If anyone can answer - does the grain bed need to get to 75? or just the wort?)

Sparging was straightforward. The pre-heated water was up to 75 degrees after a minute on the stove and sparged up to 27l for the boil.

Another lager article I read recommended a boil time of 90 minutes to reduce Dimethyl Sulfide impacts (beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-s...in-home-brewed-beer/) so went for 90 minutes boil with a few grams of Saaz added to minimise boil over.

The boil was straightforward and went with a 50g @60min, 25 @ 30min and the balance in the last 10 minutes. Worfloc added with 20 minutes to go.

The much derided Robobrew immersion chiller did a very good job. I connected this up to my spa which is not in use, so recirculating the water with a submersible pump got the wort down to pitch temp of 15 degrees in about 25-30 minutes, possibly sooner since I broke my probe thermometer during the boil stage.

At the end, I produced about 18l of Wort with an OG of 1.054. Probably higher than I was aiming at, I did consider adding a bit more water to hit 1.048, but decided to suck it and see. The wort tasted great, so it is a promising sign, I went with S23 yeast and activated it during the chill stage. If is already bubbling slowly in the fermenter 12 hours on which is again what I was aiming for.

So my estimate of efficiency is around 67% which isn't bad for a first effort.

So my final takeaways from the Robobrew

- At 1/3 the price of a Grainfather and 1/5 the Braumeister, it is a good toe in the water for those that want to go from extract to mash
- The unit is remarkably small and compact
- The niggles that other have pointed to such as the stand for sparging and the chiller are not as bad as what they make out, I coped with both fine
- The sensor doesn't seem to deal with low range temperatures too well. But I will look in to this later once I have a new probe thermometer.
- Emptying the hop spider made me question the effectiveness of extracting maximum from the hops. The colour was mostly uniform with pockets of lighter and darker colour.


----------



## Adam Howard

pat_00 said:


> Just did my first beer big beer in my RB over the weekend.
> 
> An imperial stout which was supposed to come out at 1.096 OG, but only hit 1.090.
> 
> I had to split the mash as I couldn't fit the 10kg of grain in the malt pipe, I think this is where I lost some efficiency as I could only sparge the second mash. Any tips for beers like this? I see myself making a few really strong beers over winter.


Perhaps mash as big as you can and goose up with a portion of extract/sugar. People may turn their nose up at the idea but it's endorsed by people like Jamil Zainasheff and Tasty McDole. On a big 1.080+ beer you're not going to notice a 10% addition of extract.


----------



## Siborg

Apologies if its already been mentioned, but has anyone had an issue with kettle caramalisation leading to perceived diacetyl? I've entered my last few batches in a few comps, and they've all been slammed for diacetly, despite me doing a D rest at the end of each fermentation, and going from springling in dry, to rehydrating one packet, to using 2 (rehydrated) packets. All have been fresh packets of US05 bought from my LHBS. 

It's been a while, but I think I've been running both elements to get a really vigorous boil, I might turn one off when it starts foaming, but fire them both back up once that calms down. During cleanup, there's usually a bit of wort scorched onto the bottom, but nothing I'd call excessive - maybe 1/5th of the bottom circle covered. I'm thinking that running both elements full blast is contributing a caramel-like flavour, which the judges are perceiving as diacetyl.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Siborg said:


> Apologies if its already been mentioned, but has anyone had an issue with kettle caramalisation leading to perceived diacetyl? I've entered my last few batches in a few comps, and they've all been slammed for diacetly, despite me doing a D rest at the end of each fermentation, and going from springling in dry, to rehydrating one packet, to using 2 (rehydrated) packets. All have been fresh packets of US05 bought from my LHBS.
> 
> It's been a while, but I think I've been running both elements to get a really vigorous boil, I might turn one off when it starts foaming, but fire them both back up once that calms down. During cleanup, there's usually a bit of wort scorched onto the bottom, but nothing I'd call excessive - maybe 1/5th of the bottom circle covered. I'm thinking that running both elements full blast is contributing a caramel-like flavour, which the judges are perceiving as diacetyl.



I've definitely noticed a bit of scorched grain dust on the elements when cleaning up. I can't say I've detected any caramel flavours in my brews though.

Efficiency and water volumes are still taking up the majority of my energy at the moment sadly.


----------



## pat_00

Me neither, my most recent brew was a really dry pale ale which had a bit of crud on the element afterwards.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Efficiency and water volumes are still taking up the majority of my energy at the moment sadly.


Hi Bob, I've been researching the Robobrew recently and came across this helpful video for water and wort calculations from Gash on YouTube 

I believe he's made a decent Beersmith profile for the Robobrew too, might be able to find it on his cellardweller forum?

I'm thinking the Robobrew is the right bit of gear for me to make the switch from kits and bits.
At this stage I'm not interested in a 3 vessel system, also can't spend all day doing a brew.

I was looking into an urn but, meh this one has a nice temp controller for mashing and heating, plus 2 heat elements, chiller and B malt pipe.

Robobrew ticks all the boxes for me!


----------



## Ghizo

Peekaboo_jones
Love my robo brew, brew day is 4.5 hours (using hot water to start).
I usually have 28-29 litres in the boil. 
Mash in with 20 l and 13l sparge. Gets around 23 litres in the fermenter.
Lifting the malt pipe and sliding the stand under is a bit of juggle, not difficult but could have been designed better.
I use a hop spider bit wonder if a hop sock would be better, there is no boiling inside the spider, not sure if this is an issue


----------



## Ghizo

.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Thanks for your info and thoughts Ghizo. Sold.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Just ordered a Robobrew for $405 from Grain and Grape in Melbourne. They have a sale on now 10-20% off most items.
My beer brewing journey is going to the next level and looking forward to it!


----------



## SBOB

grain of salt, but this was just posted on the aussie home brewer facebook page

"So I popped into Keg King today and had a really good chat to one of the bosses, we can expect to see a 35L and 65L robobrew in the next couple of months plus late 2017 is going to be another evolution in the Robobrew and the whole range with wireless wifi control for the kegerator, heat vessle and robobrew all very exciting"

Will be interesting to see what they come up with..


----------



## hopnotic

I was speaking to the guys at KK yesterday and they also mentioned to hold off on the Robobrew/GF purchase as the wireless app and hardware upgrades will be released in a few months. So they're obviously trying very hard to keep up with the GF upgrades that are around the corner, which is good news for us.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

hopnotic said:


> I was speaking to the guys at KK yesterday and they also mentioned to hold off on the Robobrew/GF purchase as the wireless app and hardware upgrades will be released in a few months. So they're obviously trying very hard to keep up with the GF upgrades that are around the corner, which is good news for us.


That's cool, looking forward to seeing what they bring out.

I was going to hold off but I bought one last month anyway. I'm happy so far, with a bit of forward planning I can get it setup, switch it on to heat the water up to mash and do other jobs around the house at the same time. Same goes with the boil, but having said that I always like to keep an eye on it rather than set & forget.

I'd also guess that new hardware and wireless Robobrew will have a higher price tag than RRP of $449 too.
I picked mine up on a fathers day sale for $400


----------



## bingggo

The robobrew instructions say put the grain in the pipe, then put the pipe in the robobrew. Is that the best way, or is it better to put the empty pipe in the water and then slowly rain in the grain?

Cheers.


----------



## cliffo

I fill the Robobrew with required water, put the grain pipe in and then pour in the grain.

Works fine.


----------



## TwoCrows

Bingggo it depends on how you prepare your mash water.

Are you pre heating your water in the robobrew ? Or using a hlt to strike your mash in temp?


----------



## Bribie G

Siborg said:


> Apologies if its already been mentioned, but has anyone had an issue with kettle caramalisation leading to perceived diacetyl? I've entered my last few batches in a few comps, and they've all been slammed for diacetly, despite me doing a D rest at the end of each fermentation, and going from springling in dry, to rehydrating one packet, to using 2 (rehydrated) packets. All have been fresh packets of US05 bought from my LHBS.
> 
> It's been a while, but I think I've been running both elements to get a really vigorous boil, I might turn one off when it starts foaming, but fire them both back up once that calms down. During cleanup, there's usually a bit of wort scorched onto the bottom, but nothing I'd call excessive - maybe 1/5th of the bottom circle covered. I'm thinking that running both elements full blast is contributing a caramel-like flavour, which the judges are perceiving as diacetyl.


If they can't tell the difference between diacetyl and caramel they shouldn't be putting themselves up for judging. Really.

On the main topic, I may have posted earlier but can't be bothered scrolling through n pages. Is it possible to buy the system without the immersion chiller (my urn in 6 years old, and I'm pondering the idea of doing a switch before it finally goes to where all the good urns go, at least keeping the elderly urn for the sparge liquor).


----------



## bingggo

TwoCrows said:


> Bingggo it depends on how you prepare your mash water.
> 
> Are you pre heating your water in the robobrew ? Or using a hlt to strike your mash in temp?


Hi, 

I am heating the water in the robobrew - which grain addition method would you suggest?

Another question I have is whether people set the temp higher than their actual desired mash temp. In the last couple of brews, doing manual recirculation every 5-10m with a 2L jug, I've found the top of the mash is a few degrees colder than the temperature readout; so wonder if I should set it higher (or change my technique). I insulate it with a yoga mat and I'm going to get a pump - would that solve that issue?

Also, what's a good Beersmith mash profile to use, or is a custom one for the robobrew better?

Cheers,
B


----------



## bingggo

I did my fourth robobrew, this time with a pump (which really helped the chilling it seemed), and in general the process went smoothly; but raised some questions I'd appreciate help with (with a note on my experience to illustrate what I'm doing).

Appreciate the wisdom!

Cheers,
B

----------------------------------

- what mash profile should one use, or create, to represent the single infusion sparge process from Robobrew? Do you deliberately have a mash out period, or just start the boil while the pipe is draining?
--------Backstory: I selected single infusion, light body, batch sparge which gave me the right estimated numbers compared to real life; but I used my own mash and sparge volumes. I'm guessing starting the boil heating up while the pipe is draining serves the mash out process.

- should I be stirring the full length of the malt pipe at intervals while raining in the grain?
--------Backstory: I've been heating 20L in the RB to the beersmith recommended temp, then slowly rain in grain while stirring the top of the liquid. I find that leaves the mash appearing thick and hard to stir, and probably explains why the top of the mash when I'm done is a few degrees below the desired mash temp (as all the grain has cooled the upper layer of water). I've seen videos where people dump in a kg or two quickly, then stir vigorously, then repeat. Is that the best way?

- is there a preferable recirculation start time and volume/minute? and is the 500w recommended if recirculating.
--------Backstory: I used the pump for the first time this brew, turning it on at 15m and leaving it running continuously. It seemed to improve wort clarity before the boil. I was only doing about 1.5L/minute, with the 500w on. The liquid coming out the hose seemed to remain at the mash temp, so guess 500w is enough. But the KegKing instructions contemplate using either element.

- what are the best options to control foaming with a 30L boil?
--------Backstory: My amber ale really started to foam up and I only just avoided a boil-over by briefly switching off the elements, blowing on it madly, and spraying with water and stirring a bit. It did that a couple of times during the initial minutes of the bittering charge too. I think someone in the thread commented on throwing in a few grams of Saaz or other hop to control foaming - does that mean adding it before the boil starts?

- what are people using in BeerSmith's efficiency, and crush?
--------Backstory: I'm not sure if it was my cool mash, or the LHBS crush settings, but I only got correct results from BeerSmith if I had a 63% efficiency. I noticed Gash on Cellar Dweller sets his for 68%, and I think some people here go higher?

- are there any tricks to getting trub to collect better, particularly if recirculating while cooling?
--------Backstory: I used the pump to recirculate at full bore while the immersion chiller was going, and 15 degree ground water cooled it to 19 degrees in about half an hour which was much better than my experiences without the pump. But while quite a lot of hop debris collected on the bottom, the wort seemed cloudier than my previous brews, as if more stuff was still suspended. Should I stop the pump for a while before draining into the FV?


----------



## pyroboy

Hi bingggo,

I am about ten-odd brews in on the robobrew, seem to be hitting my numbers and making decent beer. Below is from my experience only, ymmv.




> what mash profile should one use, or create, to represent the single infusion sparge process from Robobrew? Do you deliberately have a mash out period, or just start the boil while the pipe is draining?


I use the standard BS mash profiles. Deliberate mash out period, ramp to 76o then hold for 10 min, with mash-pipe in. Remove mash-pipe and start heating for the boil whilst draining and sparging.



> - should I be stirring the full length of the malt pipe at intervals while raining in the grain?


Yep. Makes the mixing a bit easier.



> - is there a preferable recirculation start time and volume/minute? and is the 500w recommended if recirculating.


Leave the mash for 10-15 minutes before starting recirculation. When recirculating, keep about an inch of wort above the grain bed. Leave both elements switched on, tho not necessarily heating, all the time.



> - what are the best options to control foaming with a 30L boil?


A good stir of the foam with your spoon/paddle. I've never really had a problem wth boil-overs.



> - what are people using in BeerSmith's efficiency, and crush?


Not sure what my crush is as LHBS does it. I am using 60.5% efficiency and reliably hitting my numbers. When I get a mill I'll look into this some more.



> - are there any tricks to getting trub to collect better, particularly if recirculating while cooling?


Get a bit of a whirlpool going with your pump. Once you finish cooling, stop the pump and let it sit for 30 min or so. I usually end up with a nice compact layer of trub and not too much gunk in the fermenter.

Anyway, this is just what I do. Hope something here is useful.

Cheers


----------



## bingggo

Very useful! Thanks 

With a relatively low efficiency, I guess it's best to just raise your base malt amount, rather than the spec grains as well?


----------



## Nattydstar

Hey mate. I have brewed about 25 batches on my robobrew with one of the keg king magnetic drive pumps to recirculate during the mash. I like to max out the boiler; generally starting with about 30-31L pre-boil but I've never had a boil over - although I have been perilously close. Keep a spoon/paddle in one hand and a spray bottle of cold water in the other, spray it when the foam really starts to rise. Worst case scenario, you can switch off the 500W element, if it's getting out of hand (you might have to use a toe for this ).

I was getting 75%, but since I started wrapping up the robobrew (a few big beach towels wrapped around and over and clamped nice and tight) during the mash I am consistently getting 85% efficiency. I did this because I checked temps at various levels through the mash and found it really wasn't holding a good, consistent temperature throughout. Hope this helps, cheers!


----------



## pyroboy

bingggo said:


> Very useful! Thanks
> 
> With a relatively low efficiency, I guess it's best to just raise your base malt amount, rather than the spec grains as well?


I tend to use percentages when formulating recipies, then scale the lot against my equipment profile to hit desired OG.

Increasing just the base malt would be fine to make up for a small differences in efficiency.

As I am currently getting consistent results, I am focusing on other areas (water and fermentation) before chasing efficiency.

Cheers


----------



## pyroboy

Hi Nattydstar



Nattydstar said:


> I was getting 75%, but since I started wrapping up the robobrew (a few big beach towels wrapped around and over and clamped nice and tight) during the mash I am consistently getting 85% efficiency. I did this because I checked temps at various levels through the mash and found it really wasn't holding a good, consistent temperature throughout. Hope this helps, cheers!


Are you crushing your own grain?

I'll try the wrapping thing next brew day and see if my efficiency changes.

Cheers


----------



## Nattydstar

Yep, I'm using my own mill.


----------



## bingggo

Nattydstar said:


> Yep, I'm using my own mill.


What sort of mill? What's the crush size?

Cheers,
B


----------



## Nattydstar

I've got the Malt Muncher, purchased on ebay from country brewer I think. Hmm, I'm not sure how to measure the width. I get a pretty fine crush, but I've never had a struck mash/sparge.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

+1 for Grain Crush having an impact.

I hadn't brewed in a while but yesterday I put down a Maris Otter/Citra SMaSH on the Robo with grain I bought from a different shop to my usual. I could tell the grind was coarser immediately as there was far less flour at the bottom of the bag and the mash recirculated perfectly. I hit my gravity target right on the nose and achieved 73% mash and 65% brew house efficiency. This was with no water chemistry amendments and with a simple 20L Mash 12 L Sparge.

I think I've finally worked out the system so will now move back into water chemistry/mash pH and then tool around with the volumes for mash and sparge.


----------



## quadbox

I must say I've never once got anything that'd be considered GOOD efficiency on mine, using hbs milled grain. Look forward to having a mill and having a play.

But then, grain's cheap . If only hops were as cheap


----------



## Dinham




----------



## kirem

Upgraded/New model?


----------



## bradp

I opened mine today, very excited to say the least!! 
There have been quite a few adjustments from the previous Robobrews I have seen in pictures and on YouTube. Mine is without the pump as shown in the picture above.
Bring on the weekend so I can get a brew down!


----------



## kirem

I had a quick look on kegking for some more information on the new units but I couldn't find any information. Is there anywhere else that details the changes made?


----------



## Maheel

are the robobrew's concealed or "visable " element?


----------



## cliffo

Maheel said:


> are the robobrew's concealed or "visable " element?


The original has a concealed element. You could most likely expect these new ones to be the same.


----------



## jackgym

Dinham said:


> I'm only stressing about the hop matter making it into the fermenter because I don't want clogged kegs again! That was a pain in the ass. I guess I need to either get a spider or sihpon off the top rather than try and use my fermenter's tap.
> 
> Is 110g a large amount of hops in a boil?


I hope you don't mind me chipping you about your usage of the word "ass". In Australia that's a donkey and it sounds silly used in that context. Please use "arse" as it has much more authority.


----------



## T-Man

New version of the Robobrew. Was contemplating the GF but now......

http://kegking.com.au/35l-robobrew-with-pump.html


----------



## pyroboy

T-Man said:


> New version of the Robobrew. Was contemplating the GF but now......
> 
> http://kegking.com.au/35l-robobrew-with-pump.html


Wow! That's quite an upgrade over the previous model.


----------



## Cummy

Ohh dam. I want a new one. Great price. Just needs to be a little bigger


----------



## pist

35 litres is a bit small for me but the rest of the robos features tick the boxes. You would be pushing shit up hill to punch out a full batch of a higher grav beer like a barley wine or ris


----------



## quadbox

Yeah, you've got buckleys chance of managing something super high gravity. I've managed about 1090 on mine, and that was with both a very stiff mash and completely full to the brim, with all the loss of efficiency you'd expect. I doubt you could go any higher without dropping to a smaller batch size

EDIT - that's for 20L into the fermenter


----------



## bwhouse

The new model is very tempting. I have just got back into all-grain brewing and have been eyeing off the Grainfather, but at half the price the new Robobrew looks very interesting. Anyone know if any of the Sydney Keg King distributors have them in stock yet?


----------



## SBOB

pist said:


> 35 litres is a bit small for me but the rest of the robos features tick the boxes. You would be pushing shit up hill to punch out a full batch of a higher grav beer like a barley wine or ris


nothing stopping you doing a double/reiterated mash


----------



## bwhouse

Has anyone got their hands on one of these yet? I am interested in what the build quality is like and if the Grainfather is worth the price premium or not.


----------



## el_toro

bwhouse said:


> Has anyone got their hands on one of these yet? I am interested in what the build quality is like and if the Grainfather is worth the price premium or not.


Would be interested in this too. Maybe a review of the new Robobrew or comparisons with the Grainfather.


----------



## pist

bwhouse said:


> Has anyone got their hands on one of these yet? I am interested in what the build quality is like and if the Grainfather is worth the price premium or not.


 the difference in the build quality between the gf and the robo is like comparing a bunnings bbq to say a matador or more expensive brand. The robobrew (bunnings bbq) finish is ok/looks the part but it will get the job done as opposed to the gf which is much better put together and will likely last you alot longer


----------



## sieve182

Hey guys, Have just sifted through the 19 pages and haven't found anything about what I'm about to ask.
Firstly a little background on my brews, I'm running the 1.75L dead space Robo with a magnetic pump, and I recirc throughout mash, sparge and boil. Sparging I have found issues with 2 out of 3 brews now. First was with no rice/oat hulls and 5.5kg grain, second 5kg grain and 500g of hulls, third was a mess with 6kg, 200g hulls and ended with a stuck mash(trying my first step 45C, 55C 65C), sparge was slow as all hell and ended up with the display blanking out numerous times at 78C working towards boiling. I emptied the whole boiler, was about to use my mates kettle and burner set up when I noticed plenty of black charred something on the bottom of the boiler(at the element). Cleaned this off and the RB fired back up and worked a treat after(have had the display cut out maybe 5 times in 3 brews, only to turn back on and no issues after. Haven't had a chance to brew since this last hell day of a brew day to see if I can rectify it with stirring during the mash, mashing with more water(stupid me decided to start the protein rest with 2L/kg, which I think is far too thick for the RB) and more hulls for 5.5kg+.
My question is, I'm going to buy the GF urn for my sparge water, and was wondering if it would be worth using the chiller as a rims to pump wort through silicone tubing through an inline thermometer to the chiller in the sparge water heater set at mashing temps(can adjust with step mashing as well) and then back onto the grain bed until ready to start sparging after having lifted malt pipe onto the rack. Would this be worth it or is it just SUPER overkill with already having the pump and just doing recirc as normal?
Also, any feedback on my trials & tribulations would be appreciated.

Cheers fellow HB's.


----------



## Cummy

sieve182 said:


> Hey guys, Have just sifted through the 19 pages and haven't found anything about what I'm about to ask.
> Firstly a little background on my brews, I'm running the 1.75L dead space Robo with a magnetic pump, and I recirc throughout mash, sparge and boil. Sparging I have found issues with 2 out of 3 brews now. First was with no rice/oat hulls and 5.5kg grain, second 5kg grain and 500g of hulls, third was a mess with 6kg, 200g hulls and ended with a stuck mash(trying my first step 45C, 55C 65C), sparge was slow as all hell and ended up with the display blanking out numerous times at 78C working towards boiling. I emptied the whole boiler, was about to use my mates kettle and burner set up when I noticed plenty of black charred something on the bottom of the boiler(at the element). Cleaned this off and the RB fired back up and worked a treat after(have had the display cut out maybe 5 times in 3 brews, only to turn back on and no issues after. Haven't had a chance to brew since this last hell day of a brew day to see if I can rectify it with stirring during the mash, mashing with more water(stupid me decided to start the protein rest with 2L/kg, which I think is far too thick for the RB) and more hulls for 5.5kg+.
> My question is, I'm going to buy the GF urn for my sparge water, and was wondering if it would be worth using the chiller as a rims to pump wort through silicone tubing through an inline thermometer to the chiller in the sparge water heater set at mashing temps(can adjust with step mashing as well) and then back onto the grain bed until ready to start sparging after having lifted malt pipe onto the rack. Would this be worth it or is it just SUPER overkill with already having the pump and just doing recirc as normal?
> Also, any feedback on my trials & tribulations would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers fellow HB's.


Sounds like your grain is milled to fine. Do you let the mash settle for 10mjns before starting your pump? I have found that there is insufficient air flow under the robo brew which leads to the display over heating and blanking out. Whe I place it on a flat surface it blanks. I now place it on a milk crate and have had
No issues since. Hope this helps.


----------



## Bribie G

"Protein rest" says it all. Easiest way to stuff up a Crown Urn, and I presume that the Robobrew is the same.

If you are ramping up from protein rest to sacch rest, there hasn't been any conversion, or at least very little, so any dust and flour that's settled down onto the element during the protein rest is likely to burn on.

For protein rest in any directly heated device it's best to ramp up using hot water. Once you have rested in the 60-70 range for a short while, safe to switch back on. Plenty of "mixing" calculators out there that give you good accuracy.


----------



## sieve182

Bribie G said:


> "Protein rest" says it all. Easiest way to stuff up a Crown Urn, and I presume that the Robobrew is the same.
> 
> If you are ramping up from protein rest to sacch rest, there hasn't been any conversion, or at least very little, so any dust and flour that's settled down onto the element during the protein rest is likely to burn on.
> 
> For protein rest in any directly heated device it's best to ramp up using hot water. Once you have rested in the 60-70 range for a short while, safe to switch back on. Plenty of "mixing" calculators out there that give you good accuracy.








Ok, so looking at this chart it's coming back to me, I did the step mash as follows(sorry at work and don't have my book with me): 15 mins 45C(Beta-glucanase rest), 30 mins 55C(Protein(ase) rest), then up to 65C for 50 mins, then 10 mins 68C, then up to 78C Mash out 10 mins.
Recipe was: 2.22kg Maris Otter
2.22kg pale malt
.44kg light crystal
.44kg Cara-pils
.66kg Flaked Oats
.66kg Flaked Barley
.2kg rice hulls
Bribie, would you add all the malt and the adjuncts for the Beta-glucanase, or would you add only a little bit of malt mixed with adjuncts, then add next temperature water and so on until you get to sacch then use the element to heat? To limit the risk of scorched protein on the bottom?

Cummy, I generally start the pump from the word go to keep a constant temp. To be honest, I've never mashed with the lid on, but I'm had a light bulb moment that I will do so from now on. Also, I've built a mobile scaffold with the Robo sitting on top of metal planks with holes under them so it's not like it's TOTALLY starved for air...


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

Well I've spent the last week bit by bit reading through the whole of this thread.

I got a robobrew for Christmas and have only done one brew in it so far, I didn't like the idea of lifting the malt pipe out and showering/oxidizing the wort into the robobrew, I also didn't like the idea of any grain bits/rice hulls being boiled so I made a NZ lager as follows;

4 kg pilsner malt
1 kg flaked rice
150 g rice hulls.

Heated 20 l water to 55, sprinkled grain and stirred in.

Protein rested at 55 for 15 mins, stirring every couple of mins.

Raised temp to 68 stirring often.

Rested at 68 for 90 mins, stirring every now and then.

Raised to 77, still stirring,

Left the malt pipe in place and sparged with about 15 l of water at 77.

Recirculated (manually) first 5 or 6 l

Collected 26 l of goodness, quite slowly, difficult to remember how long it took as I was working next to the beer fridge.

I could have collected more but I didn't have a container ready.

Emptied and cleaned robobrew.

Proceeded to boil, hop chill etc. without event.

Ended up with 21 l in my fermenter SG 1.064, quite a bit higher than I was expecting.

Is there a reason to lift the malt pipe out?


----------



## mtb

Not having experience with a Robobrew I can't say for sure, but it seems lifting the malt pipe out allows you to sparge properly. If you leave the malt pipe submersed in the wort you're technically not "sparging".
That being said, if you hit (and exceeded) your SG and volume target, aint nobody who can tell you that you've gone wrong. What mash efficiency did you design your recipe to, and what was your actual mash eff?


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

mtb said:


> Not having experience with a Robobrew I can't say for sure, but it seems lifting the malt pipe out allows you to sparge properly. If you leave the malt pipe submersed in the wort you're technically not "sparging".
> That being said, if you hit (and exceeded) your SG and volume target, aint nobody who can tell you that you've gone wrong. What mash efficiency did you design your recipe to, and what was your actual mash eff?



I didn't design anything, the recipe was from a book about brewing, I swapped 500 g of malt for 500 g more of flaked rice and I was expecting a SG of 1.045-50, I was quite pleased with myself until I realized the alcohol content could be over 7%


----------



## mtb

Ha, yeah that's a bitch to work around.. but a nice one compared to the opposite (being UNDER your target SG). If you've only just pitched the yeast today/recently you could dilute with sanitised & cooled water to increase your batch volume and bring that ABV down.
I highly recommend that you use software to enter your recipes into to plan your next brew day - that way you can predict bitterness, ABV, OG etc, as well as calculate your mash and brewhouse efficiency. For the sake of supporting AHB's sponsors I will direct you to Brewer's Friend.


----------



## BJB

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> I didn't like the idea of lifting the malt pipe out and showering/oxidizing the wort into the robobrew,


You won't oxidize the wort before the boil.


----------



## mtb

BJB said:


> You won't oxidize the wort before the boil.


To clarify - you will, but it won't matter.


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

mtb said:


> Ha, yeah that's a bitch to work around.. but a nice one compared to the opposite (being UNDER your target SG). If you've only just pitched the yeast today/recently you could dilute with sanitised & cooled water to increase your batch volume and bring that ABV down.
> I highly recommend that you use software to enter your recipes into to plan your next brew day - that way you can predict bitterness, ABV, OG etc, as well as calculate your mash and brewhouse efficiency. For the sake of supporting AHB's sponsors I will direct you to Brewer's Friend.


I started on Boxing day SG is down to 1.018 so it is doing a diacytal rest just now.

Thanks for the link, I put the details into Brewer's Friend calculator, I had to adjust the efficiency to 85 % to match my achieved volume and SG it also suggested a FG of 1.009 and 7.2 % alcohol.

I will try it for my next one, hopefully this weekend.


----------



## stm

Seems more stressful, more complicated and more prone to failed mashes than a simple Crown urn and a bag. (And a stick thermometer.)


----------



## sparkatron

So my Robobrew took a dive yesterday.

I was doing the boil and it had been going for about 10 minutes, sitting at 102c and then suddenly started dropping. I was getting a little concerned as it was a fairly warm day (26c here in Melbs).

98c - I move it from out of the shade and into the sun.

96c - I grab my homemade heat jacket and throw it around it.

93c - I'm fairly certain I need to panic now.

90c - I call my mate who lives around the corner and he brings his Jomack urn around. I get it back up to a rolling boil in that and we're back in business.

Saved the brew (thankfully) but yeah, I'm quite certain an element died. My best guess is the 500W, since it was dropping fairly slowly. I went to call KegKing, but they would've been closed. I'll try them again tomorrow. I don't know where they stand with warranties. It's almost bang on a year ago that I bought it, so hopefully they won't give me any grief, but I can't find the proof of sale. 

I've got a mate who bought one from them, and an element died a few monthslater. They fixed it up - no questions asked. So I'm hoping they're just as responsive for me.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Ah dang! That's a bugger man... glad you saved the beer, great effort.
They should be OK with it. its early days for them so you'd think they'd help a brother out and keep some good customers


----------



## Gigantorus

Hi All,

Just got my Robobrew this week and plan to use it this weekend. Are there any do's and don'ts I should be aware of before I start using it? Tricks and tips also welcomed.

Also what's the best way to clean thoroughly at the end of the day?

Thanks,

Pete


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Hi Pete,

Congrats on your new purchase.
I'm sure you will have plenty of fun making beer with this! 

Which model did you get, with or without pump?

I have v2 (without pump, which I believe there were three versions without pump) and I find the best way to clean after a brew is to: 
- rinse out with water
- wipe any Hop or grain debris with a wet sponge or small towel etc
- add about 4L water with regular dish washing liquid and give her a good old cleaning.
- keep in mind that the electronics buttons and switches on the outside aren't waterproof so be careful with that.

During the brew, keep an eye on the mash temp with an additional thermometer of your own, just for info. Gash from the tube doesn't seem to think it's a big issue but others here clearly do believe the robobrew s thermometer is out of accuracy.

***Use a Hop sock or bag *** makes life easy at cleanup and also clearer beer.

I heat sparge water with a camp stove, but may also pre heat my sparge water in the robobrew to say 100 then transfer to another vessel with an old doonah draped over it.

So far I have only no-chilled.

Hope this helps mate.

Cheers
Nick


----------



## TonyF

I do similar to Nick but use PBW for washing out my Robobrew.

I also use a hop sock to try and keep the amount of crap at the bottom to a minimum. 

I've just purchased a pump for recirc which I find helps keep the temps a little more consistent. I found the temps at the top of malt pipe could differ by as much as about 6 or so degrees lower than what the Robobrew was reading, but that's hardly surprising considering the thermometer probe is down at the bottom where the elements are. 

When chilling at the end I use the immersion chiller. I run tap water to get it down to about 45 and then use a submersible pump inside my esky with ice water that gets recirculated to get it down to pitching temps.

Hope you enjoy your new toy


----------



## Gigantorus

Thanks chaps. Very much appreciated.

Nick, I got the 2017 model without the pump.

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## TehCrucible

RoboBrew's rocked up yesterday. 2x new model with pump. Getting a test run today. Initially I wasn't very impressed but I'm starting to come around. I'll add some further comments when I've had a chance to collect my thoughts, however happy to field any questions in the meantime.


----------



## Coldspace

Looking more like a gf copy now. Malt pipe remove and position looks the same etc.
Good luck with them, I'm sure they will brew good beer


----------



## Yob

anybody done a reiterated in one of these?


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

if you can do it on a GF then there's not much reason why you couldn't do it on the Robo:

https://www.grainfather.com/blog/week-74-reiterated-mashing/?___store=au


----------



## TehCrucible

Coldspace said:


> Looking more like a gf copy now. Malt pipe remove and position looks the same etc.


Yep, the whole malt pipe / re-circulation setup is an exact replica of the GF, which is a good thing I think. Overall I'm pretty happy with them however Keg King clearly has some quality control issues to sort out as well. Here's a few of my notes and musings from today in no particular order:


Construction and build quality does feel 'cheap' but not necessarily bad. I think its perfectly acceptable for this price point. However...
One of my malt pipes was missing a foot (the little lug to stand when in sparge setup). Like, not broken off or damaged, just straight up never welded on in the first place. I'll be onto KK on Monday to try and sort that out.
On the same unit, the LCD panel and button assembly was not screwed in correctly. Didn't hamper usage and easily fixed but still clearly another quality control oversight.
One of my lid clips was pretty busted up but they're basically useless anyway.
The volume markings inside the unit are hilariously inaccurate. Seems to be bang on at 30L however is increasingly out in equal gradations until the lowest mark, the 10L which looks to be out roughly 2L. They are however, both exactly the same between the two units, so that's something I guess lol.
Struggled to hold a consistent, rolling boil, however this one might have been more my fault. I was using it in air conditioning and directly under a ceiling fan. Also seemed to experience the 'surging' I've read about from others using urns with false bottoms, where the water under the false bottom heats and boils but isn't distributed evenly. I'm tempted to try without the false bottom next time however there isn't really any other method for screening the pump input so not sure how that will work.
Speaking of pump, it's actually pretty good. I was expecting one of those little brown suckers at the price point however it looks like a decent little magnetic drive unit. Not going to set any records for flow rate but handled back pressure ok etc. Looks solid.
Overall, I feel like it was a good buy. It actually stands up really well to the obvious comparisons with the GF and in fact, does somethings better. (Like the added ball valve to drain without using the pump. If you're lucky enough to get a good unit without some of those manufacturing issues, its an absolute bargain IMO.


----------



## peteru

The recirc pipe on the Robobrew seems to go higher than on the Grainfather, which can only be a good thing. They also don't have the stupid ball and spring dirt catcher.

If the recirc pipe can connect to a GF, I might buy one from Keg King to upgrade my Grainfather.


----------



## TonyF

TehCrucible said:


> The volume markings inside the unit are hilariously inaccurate. Seems to be bang on at 30L however is increasingly out in equal gradations until the lowest mark, the 10L which looks to be out roughly 2L. They are however, both exactly the same between the two units, so that's something I guess lol.


Is it possible the markings are for when the malt pipe is in/out i.e. you were reading 2L under and it would be correct with the malt pipe in OR it was 2L over with the malt pipe in and would be right if you took the malt pipe out. 

Not sure there is enough mass to put it 2L out, but then again I've never tried checking the volume markings on mine either. 

Just a thought.


----------



## peteru

Good theory TonyF, but the largest error would be at the 30L mark. As the water level drops, the amount of water displaced by the malt pipe would be less and less and as a result the absolute error should decrease.

However, the fact that TehCrucible checked is great. I've never bothered checking my Grainfather, but I just might do that next time I'm using it.


----------



## TehCrucible

Yeah that's right. I'd also find it strange that they factored the malt pipe in at all, given that you can't actually see the volume markings when the malt pipe is inserted.

Just realised that I didn't specify that the reading is actually under volume, so after adding a measured 10L of water, the robobrew reads ~12L. If you were to fill to the 12L line, you would actually be 2L short. However your only about 1L short at 20L and as mentioned, accurate at 30L. I'm still working out the best way to account for this in my process, without having to actively think about it too much. Given that most recipes are going to be calling for around 15 - 25L of strike / sparge water, it's probably safe to assume you're roughly a litre short if you use the robobrew markings. Currently I'm using the other unit for heating / pumping sparge water so assume I'm out ~ a litre there as well.

So right now, I've just added 2L to the 'Misc Losses' field in BrewersFriend to ensure BF adds an extra two 'phantom' litres when working out water requirements. That way, in theory, I can use the guides through the process, but still end up with the right amount of beer in the fermentor. I'm going to give that a test run today and see how it goes.

Some other numbers if your using BeerSmith or BrewersFriend etc:

I increased the mash thickness to 3.5 L/kg to try and account for the few litres of dead space underneath the malt pipe.
Dead space when draining the unit from the pump was around 1.25 L
Default boil off rate of 3 L/hr seemed pretty accurate, I didn't have a great boil though so I'll be testing this again today.
I used a grain crush of 0.039, to 81% mash efficiency, however sparging took nearly an hour and needed a stir at one point. I'm going to try a coarser crush today.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Coldspace said:


> Looking more like a gf copy now. Malt pipe remove and position looks the same etc.
> Good luck with them, I'm sure they will brew good beer


They could all be coming out of the same stable, I have ordered the Guten which is similar again but at the bottom of the pic in small letters www.waterurn.net which led to this company Zhongshan Hongxi Industry Limited, which besides making their own range of goods are a contract manufacturer.


----------



## peteru

TehCrucible said:


> I used a grain crush of 0.039, to 81% mash efficiency, however sparging took nearly an hour and needed a stir at one point. I'm going to try a coarser crush today.


The mash/sparge physics are going to be the same as on Grainfather. My experience there was that the crush made less of a difference than how I work the mash. First, don't stir the mash too much when you dough-in. Only agitate it enough to wet the grain and avoid dough balls. If you work the mash too hard at this stage, you'll precipitate all the flour and end up with an impenetrable layer of dough. In extreme cases, it'll go all the way to the bottom and the sludge will scorch and cause the element safety to cut out.

Second, when sparging, start adding sparge water immediately and don't allow it to drain dry. I found that once all the water drains from the top, the liquidity of the mash changes and it starts collapsing and compacting. When you top it up again, you either end up stuck or develop channelling. Stuck is actually better, because you usually end up agitating the mash, which will get it going without killing efficiency.


----------



## jayahhdee

wide eyed and legless said:


> They could all be coming out of the same stable, I have ordered the Guten which is similar again but at the bottom of the pic in small letters www.waterurn.net which led to this company Zhongshan Hongxi Industry Limited, which besides making their own range of goods are a contract manufacturer.


I looked at the Guten, tempting for the right price, mind if we ask what you paid delivered and from whom?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I bought it from Foshan Shunde Guten Kitchen Equipment $498 usd, there are a few on Alibaba all similar and a real cheapy which is the same set up but a hose coming from the tap to a pump, then a hose into the top. Funny thing is why haven't they copied the Braumeister, some one copied the other German machine I think it was called the Brau Owl.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

I've been achieving 78-79% efficiency on my Mk1 Robobrew by making the following changes to my process:

* Change to a brew shop with a coarser grind - old shop was just pulverising it

* Using Bru'n Water spreadsheet and treating water with Calcium Chloride, Gypsum, Epsom and Citric Acid to hit flavour profile and pH. Note I'm not testing for pH but the numbers add up based on my tap water profile

* Consistently using 20L for mash volume (the coarser grind means that I don't need to use rice hulls anymore) and recirculating throughout the mash

* Yoga mat wrapped around the kettle to help with temp consistency


----------



## TehCrucible

TehCrucible said:


> I'll be onto KK on Monday to try and sort that out.


Couldn't figure out how to edit my previous post to add this, but just wanted to say that Keg King came through with a satisfactory arrangement for all of my issues and we're pretty responsive and helpful about it. Not a plug, just credit where credit is due.


----------



## rude

wide eyed and legless said:


> They could all be coming out of the same stable, I have ordered the Guten which is similar again but at the bottom of the pic in small letters www.waterurn.net which led to this company Zhongshan Hongxi Industry Limited, which besides making their own range of goods are a contract manufacturer.


When is the arrival date ?

Would appreciate youre run down once you have used it


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Not sure of arrival date, they have acknowledged payment received, but as they are on Chinese New Year holiday (which she did warn me about) it will not get shipped until they get back, I wanted to wait for the 50 litre version due out next month and wasn't much dearer, but curiosity got the better of me. I will give it a review when I get it, well I did promise them I would give it a favorable review, in return for a free 50 litre.


----------



## TehCrucible

wide eyed and legless said:


> I did promise them I would give it a favorable review, in return for a free 50 litre.


Haha the height of ethics in journalism.


----------



## hotmelt

The Guten looks like the Ace Micro Brewery in the UK.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271687277467

It has the same pump as the grainfather.


ipa brewday
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/all-grain-brewing/ace-microbrewery-ipa-brew-day/


----------



## wide eyed and legless

They did say it is a big seller in the UK and Germany and looking at the underside it is also the same as the Robobrew, don't know about the pump just the element and wiring fixtures. So it's looking convincing they are all coming out of the same stable.


----------



## malt junkie

wide eyed and legless said:


> They did say it is a big seller in the UK and Germany and looking at the underside it is also the same as the Robobrew, don't know about the pump just the element and wiring fixtures. So it's looking convincing they are all coming out of the same stable.


What are the power requirements on the 50L?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

malt junkie said:


> What are the power requirements on the 50L?


I didn't get any specs on the 50 litre they just told me it would be released in March, drop them a line when they come back after new year, they do respond quickly


----------



## TehCrucible

wide eyed and legless said:


> They did say it is a big seller in the UK and Germany and looking at the underside it is also the same as the Robobrew, don't know about the pump just the element and wiring fixtures. So it's looking convincing they are all coming out of the same stable.


That video of the Ace showing the underside is definitely the same as the Robobrew, however the Ace looks much tidier. The wiring is neater, and the pump (which is the same), is secured with proper hose clamps, whereas the Robobrew just has those cheap wire jobbies.


----------



## quadbox

My warranty replacement for the mark 1 arrived today, the new non-pump model (mark 1.5 or whatever he's calling it). If anyone's interested in the new-bottom-of-the-line model...

New maltpipe seems quite an improvement, wont miss the old cake-rack. Should now be easy to use with one person I think, previously you needed another person for near-capacity brews to put the cake-rack in place, and to hold the malt-pipe still during dough-in. It's fixed firmly in place now

Havent brewed on it yet, will report on how the controller goes (warranty replacement was for the controller on the old model crapping out constantly). It's nice that you can easily wipe it down now if you accidentally boil over.

The new maltpipe is also slightly larger internal diameter it looks like, so you should be able to brew with slightly more grain in it easily

Pretty much everything else is visibly unchanged


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TehCrucible said:


> That video of the Ace showing the underside is definitely the same as the Robobrew, however the Ace looks much tidier. The wiring is neater, and the pump (which is the same), is secured with proper hose clamps, whereas the Robobrew just has those cheap wire jobbies.


That company does say it has 5 production lines, maybe the Robobrew is put on a line which is made up of new starters and the Ace/Gruten is manufactured using the more proficient staff.


----------



## quadbox

Is anyone using theirs as a boiler for a still at all? t500 or something?


----------



## Barge

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Is anyone using theirs as a boiler for a still at all? t500 or something?


You will find that subject matter is verboten


----------



## peteru

Barge said:


> You will find that subject matter is verboten


What's the deal with that?

I thought anything up to 5L was OK in Australia and that the forums were open to participants form other countries too.


----------



## jibba02

peteru said:


> What's the deal with that?
> 
> I thought anything up to 5L was OK in Australia and that the forums were open to participants form other countries too.


Anything UpTo 5l can be used for water and oils. Not spirits.

But yes from what I've seen anyone can be involved in this forum.


----------



## Lionman

My LHBS said the larger Robobrew model which is rumoured yo be released in a month or two will be 65L.

The updated design of the robobrew looks really nice. So tempted to get the 35L with pump.


----------



## Lionman

You can get the 50L Guten for 288US + 203US shipping which works out to be about 650AUD delivered.

This is tempting as it's a fair bit larger than the Robobrew for only a hundred or so more. Could do a double batch for corny kegs.

http://gutenequipment.en.alibaba.com/product/60573379903-803783330/50L_BEER_MASH_TUN_HOME_BREWING_EQUIPMENT_BEER_BREW_HOME_BREWING_MASH_TUN_50L.html


----------



## wide eyed and legless

My Guten is on its way express DHL so should have it fairly soon.


----------



## SBOB

Lionman said:


> You can get the 50L Guten for 288US + 203US shipping which works out to be about 650AUD delivered.
> 
> This is tempting as it's a fair bit larger than the Robobrew for only a hundred or so more. Could do a double batch for corny kegs.
> 
> http://gutenequipment.en.alibaba.com/product/60573379903-803783330/50L_BEER_MASH_TUN_HOME_BREWING_EQUIPMENT_BEER_BREW_HOME_BREWING_MASH_TUN_50L.html


cant see any reference to the voltage/wattage?


----------



## Lionman

SBOB said:


> cant see any reference to the voltage/wattage?


I assumed it was the same as the smaller unit but you make a good point. They respond fairly quickly on their chat line.

I have a feeling it's pretty much the same as the small one electrically though, just a bigger urn.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

wide eyed and legless said:


> I didn't get any specs on the 50 litre they just told me it would be released in March, drop them a line when they come back after new year, they do respond quickly


Covering old ground


----------



## rude

50 L 3000 W


----------



## SBOB

rude said:


> 50 L 3000 W


so, 15A circuit unless you feel like trying to burn down your house


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Guten, posted out Friday delivered yesterday, looks pretty good, 8 kg of grain, 6 step mash inc boil, it is the same as the Ace and no logo neither Guten or Ace, think I noticed that the Ace in the UK didn't have the logo either.
Will report on performance after the brew.
Packaging good.



Size comparison compared to BM


----------



## TehCrucible

Looks pretty good. Is that a camlock fitting on the recirculation pipe? I'll be following with interest. I thought the Robobrew was a steal, might be kicking myself yet... :unsure:


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Yes camlock fittings, and it is good quality, I was surprised, I can do a couple of mods to the malt pipe and it should be perfect, even has a power control so you can control the boil, for the price it is very good.


----------



## crowmanz

Man the Guten looks way better than I thought it would. Please post results after your next brew day.


----------



## SBOB

crowmanz said:


> Man the Guten looks way better than I thought it would. Please post results after your next brew day.


I expect to see WEAL becoming a local distributor within a month or 2


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Gave the Gruten a run today, just a bog standard ordinary bitter 3.4% used some of the data off the Grainfather write ups, 23 litres fermenter volume, 3.66 kg grain bill, mashed into 20 litres of water, set the efficiency at 70% on Brewers Friend 75 minute mash followed by a 60 minute boil, boil gravity on target, 6 litre sparge.
Target OG 1.035 actual 1.033 this was my fault as I had to much liquor at the start of the boil, fermenter ended up 24 litres.
Efficiency was better than I expected, and could be improved by hitting the pause button a couple of times during the mash and giving the grain a stir, also there was a little silicone grommet which I did not have a clue where it belonged until I started the sparging, it seals around the top of the top perforated plate to stop the liquor running down the sides of the centre tube.
All in all very surprised and happy with the performance for something which is 25% the cost of a BM and half the price of the Grainfather, giving a 70% efficiency rating on the Brewers Friend I thought would be overshooting the mark but turns out it was about right, not bad for a first attempt in uncharted water.


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## peekaboo_jones

Great stuff WEAL, I'd be stoked with that run! 
I need to dust the cobwebs off mine...


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## dammag

http://gutenequipment.en.alibaba.com/product/60583255214-803783330/all_in_one_brew_beer_brewing_equipment_30l_mini_brewery_equipment_guten_kitchen_equip_Model_BM_S300M_1.html

Is this the one you purchased WEAL?


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## wide eyed and legless

dammag said:


> http://gutenequipment.en.alibaba.com/product/60583255214-803783330/all_in_one_brew_beer_brewing_equipment_30l_mini_brewery_equipment_guten_kitchen_equip_Model_BM_S300M_1.html
> 
> Is this the one you purchased WEAL?


That's the one, but it doesn't come with any brand or logo, what I did notice is that the reply from my first communication was replied was replied to by the manufacturer, it then switched to another sales rep, so what I think is happening is if you don't want to buy 200 of the units you are either switched to another company or they have their own retail sales outlet.

On my FG, I checked again this morning after cold crashing was at 1034, I just have to give it a go with a larger grain bill, but I am confident of a good result, though it is a new tool, I am sure of its capabilities now I have the experience of that first brew.


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## dammag

So $500 US landed?

Looks like a good deal.

Should there be a Guten thread of its own?


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## wide eyed and legless

dammag said:


> So $500 US landed?
> 
> Looks like a good deal.
> 
> Should there be a Guten thread of its own?


The only time you will see Guten mentioned is on Alibaba, Robobrew, Grainfather and Guten are all much the same, maybe they should combine them all for a thread. Though the Guten does have the programmed mash and boil, but the only disadvantage is (and something that would improve the unit) it doesn't mark time like the BM, so if you go out for a run and get back later than expected, it will just continue through to boil without stopping.


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## Zorco

"Go out for a run"...while brewing..

I think you're doing it wrong pal!

[emoji51]


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## rude

No Zorco go out for a RUN mate down the road in the car to the bottle shop


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## rude

I looked at them was able to land it here in Perth under the $500 without doing it, using Chinese post bit slower than you got yours though WEAL

It was just before the Chinese new year but never went through with it as dollars are short for me
so whether I could have landed for under $500 is no cert

Thanks for posting WEAL more feed back would be great when you brew the 5% beer


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## wide eyed and legless

Zorco said:


> "Go out for a run"...while brewing..
> 
> I think you're doing it wrong pal!
> 
> [emoji51]


Early start early finish, mash in and time for a run, the dog would never forgive me if we didn't have a morning run, still don't think he's ever forgiven me when he misheard me one time and thought I said, 'Come on Boof we're going to the vets to have you tutored'

I did look at EMS because I have brought bigger parcels than the Gruten in through them, but the calculations looked similar, might be worth checking it out more thoroughly for anyone else wanting to get one, and the BM I got direct from Germany and it was only 80 Euro delivery through the post, airmail.


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## Bribie G

How was the wort clarity and losses to trub?


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## wide eyed and legless

Clarity is good be same as grain father losses to trub would be just around 1 to 1.5 litre loss, I let my trub settle after whirlpool until I have about 70 degrees C to cold crash.
Well worth the money, the delivery is a PITA


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## cliffo

For anyone considering buying the new Robobrew with pump, I just bought one from KK's (I think it's them anyway - user "tapped15") eBay store for $522 delivered using a 10% off site-wide coupon - "C10".

I currently have the original non-pump version (which I added a pump too) but I like a few of the new features of this model so thought I'd upgrade.

Will be selling my original Robo and added pump shortly if anyone is interested.


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## cliffo

Actually scratch that, it isn't KK.


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## cammo1au

I would avoid the keg king robobrew v1. My screen just got fried after a few drips from my spoon travelled down the side. This tripped the circuit breaker, and it was only the next day i could even plug it back in without tripping the breaker.

Now the screen is fried and kk wont do anything as I bought it through an ebay seller. Bad design and dangerous. No wonder they changed the design.

I dont know how other people have found them, but my experience is not good.


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## cliffo

Just watched a RB review on YouTube -  and noticed the display on the review differs to mine (same model) and has a timer function and that the reviewer mentions KK is planning to add a delay timer to the programming. 

Does anyone know if the firmware is upgradeable by end users?


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## BrewRo

cliffo said:


> Just watched a RB review on YouTube -  and noticed the display on the review differs to mine (same model) and has a timer function and that the reviewer mentions KK is planning to add a delay timer to the programming.
> 
> Does anyone know if the firmware is upgradeable by end users?



I think the firmware is not upgradeable but they are selling the new circuit to upgrade your system to the have the timer option.

By the way, I collected mine last Wednesday and noticed that in store they have one of the previous models (with pump but no timer) which is a bit dented for $489 or so and they said that it was tested and has no leakage. That's a pretty good price if you don't mind having a dent at the base near the tap. So if any of you is interested you can make a call and verify if they still have it.

Disclaimer: I have no connection or association with them.


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## Lionman

BrewRo said:


> I think the firmware is not upgradeable but they are selling the new circuit to upgrade your system to the have the timer option.
> 
> By the way, I collected mine last Wednesday and noticed that in store they have one of the previous models (with pump but no timer) which is a bit dented for $489 or so and they said that it was tested and has no leakage. That's a pretty good price if you don't mind having a dent at the base near the tap. So if any of you is interested you can make a call and verify if they still have it.
> 
> Disclaimer: I have no connection or association with them.


Bulk Brewing has them for 499 as a normal price. Mate got one the other day for $479. Free postage in Perth usually for them too although they are out of stock at the moment.


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## Endo

Do you actually need to buy the 12mm compression to 1/2inch BSP fittings for the immersion chiller, or will 12mm garden hose end fittings work just fine?


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## mattyh77

I've just attached a garden connector to a small piece of hose, then clamped the hose straight onto the chiller.


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## woodwormm

[SIZE=12pt]I’ve just used ½ inch brass compression fittings from bunnings [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I got ½ compression x ¾ thread so a regular tap outlet screws on.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Pushing the topic elsewhere…..[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]How’s everyone’s boil rate? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The first few times I used the Robo, I thought the boil rate was good, I thought I was impressed but had never used electric before. It was nothing compared to my old Italian Spiral burner but I thought it was ok. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]The last couple of times I’ve not been convinced it has been boiling as hard as it should/did…. It now sits on 103 degrees for the full boil, I have no evidence but I thought the first couple times it hit 106. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Is there a way to measure if it’s working correctly? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Can a sparky measure current or load whilst it’s boiling? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Ideas? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Comments? [/SIZE]


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## blakewell26

printed forms section said:


> [SIZE=12pt]I’ve just used ½ inch brass compression fittings from bunnings [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]I got ½ compression x ¾ thread so a regular tap outlet screws on.[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]Pushing the topic elsewhere…..[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]How’s everyone’s boil rate? [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]The first few times I used the Robo, I thought the boil rate was good, I thought I was impressed but had never used electric before. It was nothing compared to my old Italian Spiral burner but I thought it was ok. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]The last couple of times I’ve not been convinced it has been boiling as hard as it should/did…. It now sits on 103 degrees for the full boil, I have no evidence but I thought the first couple times it hit 106. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]Is there a way to measure if it’s working correctly? [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]Can a sparky measure current or load whilst it’s boiling? [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]Ideas? [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=12pt]Comments? [/SIZE]


Yeah, can put a tong tester on it and see its current draw. But better to use a multimeter and check the resistance of both your elements. See if one is open circuit.


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## bingggo

What's the thinking on a good crush size for the Robobrew for reasonably timely sparging: 1.2mm?


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## Lionman

bingggo said:


> What's the thinking on a good crush size for the Robobrew for reasonably timely sparging: 1.2mm?


Add 250g of rice hulls to the grist and it won't matter too much.


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## peekaboo_jones

Hey brewers, I'm thinking of making a single malt Saison in the robobrew. Keen to hear what you think as I've only made one full size batch so far in the robobrew.

4.5kg castle pale malt
15g magnum at 60 mins
30g sorachi ace at 30 mins
30g sorachi ace at 10 mins
20g sorachi ace at flame out.

Mash in with 20L (68C) at 65C for 60 mins
Mashed at 70 for 10 mins
Mash out at 75 for 10 mins

What would I best sparge with? For a 23L Bach?

Cube and pitch next day with Belle saison.

Cheers, happy Friday


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## J.T

How long are you guys finding a brew takes on a Robobrew?


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## rude

peekaboo_jones said:


> Hey brewers, I'm thinking of making a single malt Saison in the robobrew. Keen to hear what you think as I've only made one full size batch so far in the robobrew.
> 
> 4.5kg castle pale malt
> 15g magnum at 60 mins
> 30g sorachi ace at 30 mins
> 30g sorachi ace at 10 mins
> 20g sorachi ace at flame out.
> 
> Mash in with 20L (68C) at 65C for 60 mins
> Mashed at 70 for 10 mins
> Mash out at 75 for 10 mins
> 
> What would I best sparge with? For a 23L Bach?
> 
> Cube and pitch next day with Belle saison.
> 
> Cheers, happy Friday



I haven't got a Robobrew but have a single vessel 
22 L mash in 18 L sparge for 23 L about 3 to 4 L loss


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## Judanero

J.T said:


> How long are you guys finding a brew takes on a Robobrew?



If I no chill, it is usually heat strike water at 1630, 70 min mash, 90 min boil, all done including cleanup by ~2100


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## J.T

So around 4.5hrs? Give or take a bit for chilling and delay start timer?

Was initially planning on a GF but I'm starting to wonder if one or two of these might be a better option.


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## Judanero

Yeah that sounds fair, I insulate the robo with some aero-cell (I think that's what it's called) but have the Tamworth winter to contend with so YMMV. 
I got mine at a decent price (2nd hand, gen 1) and use a pump to recirc, no complaints with it at all.
I also almost exclusively FWH these days for the bittering addition, and run off ~ 10L to boil on the stove top in a 19L big w stockpot as I get a more vigorous boil in both vessels that way without worrying about boil overs... adding the stovetop wort back into the robo at 10 mins when I add my yeast nutrient.


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## Lionman

What ever happened to the larger version of the robobrew that was rumoured?

Retailers where saying a 60L version was on the horizon about a year ago but it never materialised.


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## wide eyed and legless

I did see one, (factory side of KK) don't know why it's not out there yet.


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## Bob_Loblaw

J.T said:


> So around 4.5hrs? Give or take a bit for chilling and delay start timer?
> 
> Was initially planning on a GF but I'm starting to wonder if one or two of these might be a better option.



I've got my brew day down to just under 4hrs by doing the following the night before:


Set up the unit and pump ready to go
Measure out water and add to system
I brew early mornings so all that is required is for me to start heating mash water while I work out mineral additions and throw them in. Clean up is pretty easy if you clean as you go. I get most of my cleaning done during the boil so that only the main unit is left to be cleaned out by the time I've dumped the wort into a cube. I no-chill btw, but TBH chilling doesn't really add that much more time if you are clever and clean what you can when you can.


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## Lionman

wide eyed and legless said:


> I did see one, (factory side of KK) don't know why it's not out there yet.



Maybe they are holding off. The more 35L they sell, the more 60L upgrades they will sell.


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## wide eyed and legless

Well the one I saw had had a mishap in the heating dept, maybe gone back to the drawing board.


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## Lionman

wide eyed and legless said:


> Well the one I saw had had a mishap in the heating dept, maybe gone back to the drawing board.



Ah yep. You do need a lot of grunt to boil 60L. Makes it harder sell as a domestic product as most people don't have the infrastructure to handle it. Probably need around a 24A outlet.


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## cliffo

I used the Robojacket for the first time on two brews today.

It makes a noticeable difference in reducing the time it takes to get to required temperature(s) and one would assume also holds temperatures more consistently than not having this or some other form of insulation.

Well worth the money.


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## Madscientist86

Took advantage of the 18% off ebay sale and ordered a robobrew with pump for $470 inc delivery...cant wait to do my first robobrew brew!
(Also have the robojacket coming)


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## Bob_Loblaw

For anyone interested - I brewed with my biggest ever grain bill last weekend - 7.07kg of grain in a clone of the Modus Operandi Former Tenant Red IPA.

All went well, pouring in the grain took foreeeever once I hit strike temperature. I upped my mash water volume to 21L to account for the extra grain and compensated with less sparge water. 

Came in short on my pre-boil gravity (I always seem to) but nailed my OG so I'm happy, and will have a scrumptious 7.8% Hoppy Red IPA ready to drink next weekend.


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## mtb

Bob_Loblaw said:


> For anyone interested - I brewed with my biggest ever grain bill last weekend - 7.07kg of grain in a clone of the Modus Operandi Former Tenant Red IPA.
> 
> All went well, pouring in the grain took foreeeever once I hit strike temperature. I upped my mash water volume to 21L to account for the extra grain and compensated with less sparge water.
> 
> Came in short on my pre-boil gravity (I always seem to) but nailed my OG so I'm happy, and will have a scrumptious 7.8% Hoppy Red IPA ready to drink next weekend.


You brewed it last weekend and expect it to be ready next weekend? You're ambitious


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## Bob_Loblaw

mtb said:


> You brewed it last weekend and expect it to be ready next weekend? You're ambitious


When I say last weekend I'm referring to 15th October. Pitched yeast on the16th. The weekend just gone still feels too fresh to call it last weekend...

It's just about at terminal gravity now and will dry hop tonight. Should be ready to force carbonate Friday night and could be drinking by the weekend. That said I don't have any free tap real estate right now so it may have to cold condition for a week.


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## Lionman

Leaked pic of a gen 3 robobrew kicking around facebook at the moment.


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## Roosterboy

Interesting.


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## v8trol

When are they going to bring out a 50L?


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## Fro-Daddy

Has anyone made it so the handles on the V2 are strong enough to use when it has water/wort in it?
I've heard a few stories about them only being spot welded and snapping when trying to lift it up.


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## wide eyed and legless

No none of the single vessels can be lifted by the handles, they all have the same warning.


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## Leyther

wide eyed and legless said:


> No none of the single vessels can be lifted by the handles, they all have the same warning.



Oops, I lift mine regularly at the end when I've chilled it so I can get it on the bench to make draining easier, I always mash and boil on the garage floor.

Can be a tad heavy but I never feel the handles are going to give in.

Thats on the GUTEN btw not Robobrew


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## wide eyed and legless

The handles are only spot welded on, I wouldn't be risking it.


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## mkstalen

Finally jumped in on this and bought myself a Robobrew. Just wondering what's the smallest batch size someones done on this?
I was thinking about doing some 10-12L batches for competition brews.
Any reason why the Robobrew wouldn't handle that well?


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## Muzzanthrope

mkstalen said:


> Finally jumped in on this and bought myself a Robobrew. Just wondering what's the smallest batch size someones done on this?
> I was thinking about doing some 10-12L batches for competition brews.
> Any reason why the Robobrew wouldn't handle that well?



I regularly do 10L batches and have gone as low as 5L! Had to do a pretty thin mash and keep the wort circulating but no real problems other than a lower than average efficiency (usually somewhere between 55 & 65)


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## Muzzanthrope

Also be careful not to run the pump dry, as it will run faster than a small volume of liquid can filter through the grain.


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## jackmarshall77

5 L seems tight. Is the grain continuously submerged? I ran one at 17L which after 2L boin off and trub loss from the robobrew and then the fermenter probably only bottled 12-13 which about as much as I want from a batch. At that volume I got pretty good efficiency which means I did not feel the need to chase the dregs. 

For cooling I transferred hot to the frementing bucket and used the pump to push cold water through the cooling coil from the robobrew while washing it out at the same time. Partly to save water and also as my kitchen sink tap is not hose friendly. It worked really well. Tipped heaps of water in, cleaned off all the gunk and flushed it out through the pump. Then flushed throuh a few gallons of cleaning solution. By the time I was done I had cool wort and a clean robobrew.


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