# Ag: Flaked/torrified/rolled



## Oblomov (21/3/06)

I am thinking of brewing an all-grain wit. 

Most recipes call for about 50% flaked wheat, but my HBS doesn't sell this. He does sell torrified wheat and weizenmalz. I think that my local woolies sells rolled wheat. 

I am all confused. Help. Thanks. 

:unsure:


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## AndrewQLD (21/3/06)

Do a search on wit, wit bier, belgian wit or wit and recipes.
here is one link that I found and there are heaps of others.
wit
Wheat malt can be used, itis not authentic but the results can be good. Flaked wheat can be bought from a health food shop and is a good compromise. or raw wheat or flour are the best for authentisity but can be hard to handle in the mash.
Search and read up on this beer before you brew it, it is not he easiest beer to emulate but the results can be outstanding.

cheers
Andrew


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## warrenlw63 (21/3/06)

Also Bourghul is a good alternative. Sometimes known as Bulgar.

Try your local Middle Eastern Grocer or Health Food Store. :beerbang: I've used amounts approaching 30% in the mash and it worked well. It's already steamed, de-hulled and cracked and works in a single infusion.  

Warren -


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## thunderleg (21/3/06)

I used whole wheat grains. I ran them through my mill at my normal malt setting and then boiled them for 20min 6:1 water/grain ratio. When the gooey mess cooled to 55C I mixed in the crushed pils malt for a protein rest. Bumped it up to sacc' temp and poured into mash tun.

It's hard work - lots of elbow grease.


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## AndrewQLD (21/3/06)

thunderleg said:


> I used whole wheat grains. I ran them through my mill at my normal malt setting and then boiled them for 20min 6:1 water/grain ratio. When the gooey mess cooled to 55C I mixed in the crushed pils malt for a protein rest. Bumped it up to sacc' temp and poured into mash tun.
> 
> It's hard work - lots of elbow grease.
> [post="115577"][/post]​



Thunderleg, you should not have needed to boil the crushed wheat, wheat will gelatenize at around 58c-64c, so pre gelatinization before adding the wheat to the mash is not required. here are some specs for a number of grains gelatinization temps . Crushed wheat can be added directly to the mash tun and will covert quite well if there is a good percentage of barley malt in the grist.

Cheers
Andrew


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## thunderleg (21/3/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> thunderleg said:
> 
> 
> > I used whole wheat grains. I ran them through my mill at my normal malt setting and then boiled them for 20min 6:1 water/grain ratio. When the gooey mess cooled to 55C I mixed in the crushed pils malt for a protein rest. Bumped it up to sacc' temp and poured into mash tun.
> ...



Hmmm. I boiled it until it gelatinised. If I did it at 58-64 I would expect it to take longer. How do I do a protein rest if the wheat I have needs to be at 64 to gelatinise?


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## thunderleg (21/3/06)

Whoops - double post.


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## AndrewQLD (21/3/06)

Protein rest is typically done at 53c. But why did you need to do a protein rest ? it is usually done to break down proteins in malt to aid in wort clarity, which is not really required or desired when making a wit.

"Given that the protein rest improves clarity, you can evaluate its worth based on the type of beer you are brewing. If you're making a stout, who cares? Skip the rest. However, if you're making a pilsner, a protein rest is probably worthwhile. Protein rests are also important if you are using other high-protein malts such as six-row malt and malted wheat. Also note that clarity can be improved by use of Irish moss or isinglass. "

Taken from here protein rest

Cheers
Andrew


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## tangent (21/3/06)

i reckon i got better efficiency by pre-gelatinising first but it does add a couple of (p!ss easy) steps to the day.


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## thunderleg (21/3/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> But why did you need to do a protein rest ?




To make my grain bed flow. Iv'e always done it for wits - like 45 minutes and they always come out cloudy. Maybe I don't need to. Do your wits flow OK without a protein rest?


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## AndrewQLD (21/3/06)

yep, I have never done a protein rest and they flow ok, but then maybe I need to. Will look into this further I think  .

Cheers Andrew


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## Oblomov (21/3/06)

Quite a can of worms. Thanks all.

I think I'll just go for the recipe at the bottom here:

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/BeerOTMonth/riggers_wit.htm

It still looks complicated, but at least I know where to get the ingredients and the instructions are clear. 

Plus, his turkey burner is excellent :beerbang:


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## thunderleg (21/3/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> I have never done a protein rest and they flow ok
> 
> Cheers Andrew
> [post="115591"][/post]​




With 50% crushed wheat? Or rolled wheat?


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## AndrewQLD (21/3/06)

Flaked wheat


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## berapnopod (21/3/06)

Torrefied wheat is a good substitute for flaked wheat.

If you're really desparate, you can use weet-bix. Its basically flaked wheat, with a bit of malt extract (3%) for a binding agent. Tastes fine in a wit, but by golly does it make for a stuck sparge. If you do go the weet-bix route, use some rice hulls to avoid this.

Berp.


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## Linz (21/3/06)

The torrefied wheat Ive seen used in a wit came out waaaaayyy too red for the beer. 

Ive used flaked wheat from the hippy isle at woolies. I also had 5% flaked oats too



Hoegaarden clone

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 4.89
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.87
Anticipated EBC: 8.6
Anticipated IBU: 18.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0 2.44 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7
45.0 2.20 kg. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 4
5.0 0.25 kg. Flaked Oats America 1.033 4

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 4.00 9.4 90 min.
15.00 g. Crystal Pellet 4.00 9.4 90 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.73 Oz Corriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil) 
0.28 Oz Bitter Orange Peel Spice 20 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 4.89

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 75 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 75 Time: 15


Total Mash Volume L: 16.70 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.


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## shonky (21/3/06)

Hi Oblomov,

I recently brewed a Wit and got hold of the flaked wheat (after painful searches around half of Sydney by my brewing buddy :angry: ) from GNC Live well in Glebe, NSW. They have quite a lot of stores across the country so you should be able to find one close by. Check out their Website to find one.

My recipe called for about 4kg of flaked wheat and rather than buy it in the 500gms bags (for about $3 from memory) opted to buy the 25kg bag (which took a couple of days to be ordered in) for $50.

Not sure where you are located but I still have about 10kgs. You can have some of this at cost if you are local. Im in inner-Sydney so PM for details if you are interested.

Oh, BTW flaked wheat was about 45% of recipe, good extraction and no problems sparging (no protein rest). Wit just been kegged and it is beaut!! 

Cheers


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## Doc (21/3/06)

And thanks to Shonky, I'll be brewing a Wit this weekend with flaked wheat 
Starter is going crazy, now to find some Chamomile tea.

Doc


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## Oblomov (25/3/06)

berapnopod said:


> Torrefied wheat is a good substitute for flaked wheat.
> 
> If you're really desparate, you can use weet-bix. Its basically flaked wheat, with a bit of malt extract (3%) for a binding agent. Tastes fine in a wit, but by golly does it make for a stuck sparge. If you do go the weet-bix route, use some rice hulls to avoid this.


I had a good look at weet-bix and it is indeed made from flaked wheat. But according to the box it has been toasted. Is that a problem?



shonky said:


> I recently brewed a Wit and got hold of the flaked wheat (after painful searches around half of Sydney by my brewing buddy mad.gif ) from GNC Live well in Glebe, NSW. They have quite a lot of stores across the country so you should be able to find one close by. Check out their Website to find one.


I tried the one in Sydney, CBD. That one doesn't have it, they did tell me that the Glebe branch is much, much bigger.


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## Linz (25/3/06)

There is a Health food/organic supermarket on Old Canterbury Rd, Summer Hill.(Spencer/Carrington st block or close by)

They have a great selection of flaked grains in various sized bags


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## berapnopod (25/3/06)

Oblomov said:


> I had a good look at weet-bix and it is indeed made from flaked wheat. But according to the box it has been toasted. Is that a problem?



I didn't notice a significant difference when using weet-bix.

YMMV.

Berp.


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## Weizguy (25/3/06)

I have some experiences that I'd like to contribute to this thread.

First, I have some feedback from a forum member (or two) that bourghul tends to be low yield, as it's prob not gelatinised (just steamed/cracked high protein wheat). I'd be keen to hear feedback from anyone who's used it, re mash efficiency. Warren?
As bourghul is more expensive than rolled wheat at my lhfs (health food store - he he), I know which I'll be going for.

On to rolled wheat now...I have used this in a Wit (2.5 kg/ 40%of the grist), and found it to be quite good. No need for rice hulls in my mash tun, so they're saved for another time.

Flaked wheat. Apparently the lhfs near work (shopping centre) can get 25 kg bags for about $50, so I'm thinking of investing. My lhbs is getting some soon, but I'm impatient coz I have a friend coming over to visit my brewery for an ag demo, and he wants a Witbier. He apparently liked the Wit I made at the end of October and wants some for himself. I offered him half a 25 litre batch as long as he pays for 1/2 the costs and helps out with the work.
Anyway, the lfhs has said: Order Tuesday, collect Thursday. That'll cause a small ruckus at work when I come back from lunch with a 25kg bag of flaked wheat on my shoulder...

I had looked at Weet-bix, but it seemed a little expensive (comparatively, with flaked wheat) to add 2.5 kg.

my 2 cents, for now.

Seth


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## Oblomov (25/3/06)

After visiting 2 more LHFS's, I decided to use half weetbix, half torrified. How does this look:


```
Ingredients:

------------

Amount          Item                                             T% or IBU        

3.00 kg         Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) G50.8 %          

1.40 kg         Wheat, Torrified (3.3 EBC)                       G23.7 %          

1.25 kg         Weet bix (3.2 EBC)                               G21.2 %          

0.25 kg         Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC)                           G4.2 %           

18.30 gm        Styrian Goldings [5.60%]  (90 min)               H11.5 IBU        

18.30 gm        Saaz [3.30%]  (15 min)                           H3.5 IBU         

1 Pkgs          Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [Starter 125 Y                





Total Grain Weight: 5.90 kg

----------------------------

Name               Description                        Step Temp     Step Time     

Step               Add 10.00 L of water at 56.2 C     50.0 C        30 min        

Step               Add 5.00 L of water at 84.5 C      60.0 C        40 min        

Step               Add 9.00 L of water at 89.2 C      70.0 C        10 min
```

(60% efficiency, I'm pretty bad. OG 1051, 15 IBU)


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## sosman (25/3/06)

The only wit I have made used torrified wheat - it turned out fine.


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