# Fresh Wort Kits. Are They Any Good?



## chappo1970 (10/2/09)

Ok so I have sat down with the financial controller and unfortunately her ability to understand the financial requirements for my HB hobby will simply not allow me to get kegging as well as going AG in the immediate future. 

So it looks like I am going to have to stick with the K&B's, partials and some extracts until I can lobby hard enough for the extra expenditure.

Anyway I really want to try a fresh wort kit this weekend and would appreciate anyone's opinions, recipes, reccommendations and thoughts on these kits.

Chappo


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## matti (10/2/09)

I brewed a few in the past.
They are better when not diluted too much.
The OG of a 15L diluted with 5 litre is said to be around 1.042.
This was not the case with a Pilsner FWK I tried and it ended a bit thin and no real real hops left.
Measured OG was 1.039 for 20 Litre.

Each batch may also vary a little.

If you like mega-swill beers dilute them for sure.

Undiluted the OG is generally around 1.052=+/-2


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## KGB (10/2/09)

I keep hearing good things Chappo and don't remember hearing anything bad about them yet. I'm tempted to grab an ESB kit in a few weeks once I finish my next planned brew...

I say go for it, at the very least it should be an easy brew to make!


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## Supra-Jim (10/2/09)

I've done a few (G&G wheat kit) and they both turned out quite nice, especially considering the ease.

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## MarkBastard (10/2/09)

The positives and negatives of FWK's are all obvious. No real hidden dramas.

Positives:
* Quick and Easy
* All grain
* You get a cube to keep

Negatives
* Not your recipe
* Cost


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## chappo1970 (10/2/09)

"I say go for it, at the very least it should be an easy brew to make!"

Well that was what I was thinking. May as well give it a go. I have 3 spare fermenters that I need bubbling away this weekend but at $40 a pop I wanted to be sure these things are worth it and see if there where any recipes floating out there for them not just hops additions. But I am open to anything anyone is willing to offer. 

I guess my fear is $40 per pop per brew will get you a fair bit of Kits and Bits.


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## clean brewer (10/2/09)

Ive done 1 and found it quite good, it was from ND Brewing, comes in 15ltrs and you add 5ltr water. Thinking back now that I do AG, check out what the hops are for it and I would dry hop during fermentation to freshen it up a little with some nice Hop Aroma.

The one I did was an LCPA and was $39 and came with Saf Yeast, im sure Morgans have one aswell.. Anyhow, even if it was $50 total, its still only $25 per carton..

You can have it in the fridge fermenting in 5mins so it does save a fair bit of time, and even the cost of Kit & Bits adds up when you factor in Goop, Spec Malt, Hops, Malt & Yeast..

I think they are a good option Cost, Time and Convenience wise, still nicer than commercial and cheaper..

:beer: CB


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## .DJ. (10/2/09)

I did the Amarillo and it was the worst beer ever... tasted like grass.

Did the "sparking Ale" one and it was ok, but not like that style of beer at all.. I've made batter kit beers.

So I have nothing good to say about them...


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## KGB (10/2/09)

Chappo said:


> I guess my fear is $40 per pop per brew will get you a fair bit of Kits and Bits.



Fair point, I was thinking they were closer to $30. I just checked the ESB ones near me and they are $34.


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## Jakechan (10/2/09)

It seems opinions are divided. I did the ND Brewing Original Porter (doesnt appear on their website, only the Choc Porter) and it was awesome.
I couldnt drink it fast enough. 

Cheers,
Jake


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## lczaban (10/2/09)

Like DJ I also did an Amarillo kit from the St Peter's brewery and added a 12g Cascade hops bag (steeped for 15 mins in kettled boiled water) and fermented with a packet of Muntons Premium Gold yeast. Unlike DJ, I really liked how this turned out. The Cascade gave it a "fresher" taste compared with the JSGA it is meant to emulate, and this is one beer I will be trying to replicate in the near future. ATM I have recently bottled a Summer Ale I tricked up, and unfortunately I may have overtweaked the recipe and stuffed it. It was also brewed hotter than it should have been as well.  I figure I'll give it a few weeks in the bottle and see how it comes up. I have also tried this and a couple of other FWK beers at my LHBS. Most have come out all right, but some are not to my taste either.

In a nutshell, FWK's are a good, simple way of getting AG-type quality into a beer with minimal effort. You can tweak them, but generally they are pretty much set regarding what you can and can't alter with them. The cost is also higher than K&B, but keep it in perspective when you compare them to the types of commercial beers they are based upon. The only other thing I can say is keep the volume down to whatever the reccomended is otherwise the result will be a bit watery. Try one and see what you think!


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## bear09 (10/2/09)

I have done Kit #1 from G&G several times and found it to be delicious. I have added some amarillo to it for some more aroma.

Fresh wort kits are great if you just want nice beer at a great price. Yes - its more expensive than AG but you are paying for convenience. I get about 55 bottles from mine. Thats 81c a bottle for what I would certainly call premium beer.

Also - I bought one of these for my old man who is a crazy passionate believer in K&K. He brewed it up had a taste and now he asks me things like "so what do you do to make all grain beers then"... I am very happy about this.

I rate them highly and for anyone starting out wanting to make great beers this is the way to go.

Buy a little Crystal malt and steep it for 30 mins. Throw it in for a great enhancment.

Split the batch and use different yeasts - thats a good into too!

Cheers.


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## chappo1970 (10/2/09)

Thanks Guys for the responses... Keep em coming!

Oh I am definitely going to give it a go guys. Hence the post but I wanted your opinions on the stuff as well. I kind of figured if someone posted a little tips and tricks (like bear09) it would improve my chances of not making a sub-standard beer. :icon_vomit: 

I also noticed that there isn't as much information about these kits compared to others like k&k and alike. Type in CPA, coopers, Morgans etc and hundreds of posts and recipes with spring up. Type in FWK or fresh wort kit and nothing... :huh: Why is that? 

Ok here comes another dumb question...

I guess some are hopped and some are unhopped?


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## Jakechan (10/2/09)

Chappo said:


> I guess some are hopped and some are unhopped?


They should all be hopped as I understand.

Here's the link the ND
http://www.ndbrewing.com.au/


Cheers,
Jake


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## razE (10/2/09)

Best two for me were a norwest pale ale and a hefe. Very tasty.


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## Jakechan (10/2/09)

If they are unhopped then you end up with "unhopped extract" rather than a "fresh wort kit", as seen on these pages. There may be more differences but I think the name says most of what you need to know.

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?i...7&sprache=2

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2827


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## churchy (10/2/09)

How would these kits rate in a competition, would it be an unfair advantage because all the hard work is done by 
someone else and all you have to do is put it in a fermenter?


Andrew


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## chappo1970 (10/2/09)

Jake thanks for the ND linky. I was struggling to work out what the ND thing stood for??? Once I saw the packaging I remembered seeing those at the LHBS. 

As for the unhopped comment as I said I was guessing, I can assure that there was no science in it, except somewhere along the line I thought I had been told or read that you could get these FWK's unhopped. I got to admit that kinda interested me as I imagined it would be simular to concocting your own brew but without the 4 hours of mashing, sparging and boiling.


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## KGB (10/2/09)

churchy said:


> How would these kits rate in a competition, would it be an unfair advantage because all the hard work is done by
> someone else and all you have to do is put it in a fermenter?
> 
> 
> Andrew



I'm pretty sure they're illegal


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## chappo1970 (10/2/09)

Ok if they are *that good* and are illegal in comps why aren't there more rantings and ravings about them? Doesn't make sense or am I missing something?


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## quadbox (10/2/09)

I've brewed quite a few fresh wort kits. Almost all from the st peter's brewery mob. My take on them: some of them are very tasty brews. Definitely a lot better than anything I've achieved kit and kilo. They cost a lot. Their gravity is *always* too low for the style (many of them work out better if you dont dilute them 1/4 water as recommended by the manufacturer, but 'course that jacks the price up). They've got one hell of a lot of trub in them most of the time, which is perplexing (not being boiled hard enough to get a good hot break perhaps?).

However they've all turned out very drinkable brews, and the lack of effort is unbeatable in some ways. Still a shitload cheaper and arguably better than BoP type stuff. And you get a free cube with every one, so if you're working up to all-grain you've got a ready supply of cubes for no-chill.

Personally I pretty much only did them till I had all the equipment together to do all grain, even with quite expensive recipes all-grain works out about half the price ingredients wise. I mean, I'm sure you could make an imperial IPA that cost more than $85 for a 40L batch, but it'd be a veeery big beer. 

If you're planning on brewing one, I recommend the chocolate porter, it's probably the best of the bunch. At least of the ones I've brewed.


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## buttersd70 (10/2/09)

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Their gravity is *always* too low _for the style_



Who determines the "style"? BJCP? I'ts not the be all and end all. It's not gospel. It's a comprimise guide set by a panel of people that want to be able to judge beers of like character, in the context of competition. I've yet to have any beer from a commercial brewery (including micros) that even consider the 'style' guidelines to be relevant in the real world.


Homicidal Teddybear said:


> They've got one hell of a lot of trub in them most of the time, which is perplexing (not being boiled hard enough to get a good hot break perhaps?).


Cold break which hasn't precipitated, due to the method of manufcture. (ie the hotpacking)



Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Still a shitload cheaper and arguably better than BoP type stuff. And you get a free cube with every one, so if you're working up to all-grain you've got a ready supply of cubes for no-chill.


you betcha.


Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Personally I pretty much only did them till I had all the equipment together to do all grain, even with quite expensive recipes all-grain works out about half the price ingredients wise. I mean, I'm sure you could make an imperial IPA that cost more than $85 for a 40L batch, but it'd be a veeery big beer.


definately cheaper to do yourself....but at the end of the day, you're buying someones _time_. Time is money, and money is time.


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## lczaban (10/2/09)

Chappo said:


> Ok if they are *that good* and are illegal in comps why aren't there more rantings and ravings about them? Doesn't make sense or am I missing something?



They are illegal in comps because a professional brewer has supplied the ingredients and the nouse behind the vast majority of the final product. As much as they are good, I think that they don't get a bigger rap is because most brewers want to test their own skill and judgment in making their desired beer. Using a FWK takes a lot of this skill/guesswork out of the equation. The cost side of things isn't to everyone's liking either. If people get really passionate about their brewing, they are more likely to move into AG rather than persist with using FWKs because that way they can control EVERYTHING about the brewing process and know that they are completely responsible for the end result. Call it professional pride for lack of a better term.


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## quadbox (11/2/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Cold break which hasn't precipitated, due to the method of manufcture. (ie the hotpacking)



I dont buy that frankly. I wasnt comparing the trub level to other sorts of all-grain, I was comparing to the cubes of no-chill wort I've seen from people I know who no-chill, and they're hot-packing exactly the same as st peters.

I've also noticed that the mountain goat fresh worts (havent brewed one or tasted one yet, but I was around when a friend was brewing one) have much less trub too. Or it seemed so to me.


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## Peter Wadey (11/2/09)

Chappo said:


> Ok if they are *that good* and are illegal in comps why aren't there more rantings and ravings about them? Doesn't make sense or am I missing something?



FWK illegal in comps? Which ones?
Not that I am aware. 
I know brewers who made ESB FWK's regularly and who also did very well with them at comps at Local, State & National level.
They generally doctored them.

There are brewers that are not members of AHB.
We don't all run around telling others how wonderful/ successful we are - thank God.

Rgds,
Peter


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## lagerman (11/2/09)

GravityGuru said:


> They are illegal in comps because a professional brewer has supplied the ingredients and the nouse behind the vast majority of the final product. As much as they are good, I think that they don't get a bigger rap is because most brewers want to test their own skill and judgment in making their desired beer. Using a FWK takes a lot of this skill/guesswork out of the equation. The cost side of things isn't to everyone's liking either. If people get really passionate about their brewing, they are more likely to move into AG rather than persist with using FWKs because that way they can control EVERYTHING about the brewing process and know that they are completely responsible for the end result. Call it professional pride for lack of a better term.



Illegal in Beer Comps ??????????????????????????????????????

I have been running the Bathurst comp. for about 14 years and we would never knock back an entry of a FWK.
They are still classified as a homebrew kit and believe me you can stuff up the process of brewing them and still make a bad beer with them. (Temps. too high, wrong yeast and many other things).
They may be made by a proffessional brewer but the homebrewer still does the final process.
They will be welcome in the Bathurst Comp. as far as I am concerned. Let's see if they can stand up to a well tickled up kit beer and a full mash brew.
I challenge any of you out there who do the FWK to save some bottles for our comp. this September.
Cheers

The Bigfella


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## hazard (11/2/09)

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> I've brewed quite a few fresh wort kits. Almost all from the st peter's brewery mob. My take on them: some of them are very tasty brews. Definitely a lot better than anything I've achieved kit and kilo. They cost a lot. Their gravity is *always* too low for the style (many of them work out better if you dont dilute them 1/4 water as recommended by the manufacturer, but 'course that jacks the price up). They've got one hell of a lot of trub in them most of the time, which is perplexing (not being boiled hard enough to get a good hot break perhaps?).



I've made 3 brews using Grain and Grape FWKs. They specify gravity of 1060, and I have measured exactly that when I got them home. So, I then either dilute (to get a medium strength brown ale) or add a small partial mash (to make a strong Belgian Ale) and I get exactly the right FG. Also, there is NO trub in the G&G kits.

With yeast (Wyeast) and grains, it has cost me about $60 to make 23L of strong Belgian Ale at around 7.5% ABV. I'm sure AG is cheaper on the ingredient size, but then I haven't spent lots of dollars on an AG set up (If I had the money there is no where to put it anyway) so this is the only way I can get an all grain beer. And let's face it - Chimay is $8 a stubbie at Dan Murphys so I have still saved a couple of hundred bucks compard to retail price. I don't use them all the time, but think they certainly have a place.

hazard


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## FireBlade (11/2/09)

I use the Grain And Grape FWs for all my brews. I tried the ND ones but found them always to have a low SG when topped up to 20lt, some even went as low as 1038. The G & G ones give me 22lt of full strength, just add hops, yeast and water. There's no way I could go back to kits + bits.


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## brettprevans (11/2/09)

personally I recon they are great and have a place. if your strapped for imt or want to experiance AG. but they are expensive and most of the work has already been done for you. to some thats a positive to some thats a negative. To me its a big negative, as I like to have complete control over my beer. im a homebrewer not a home fermentor. just my views.

and there's nothing wrong with kits and bits. Fireblade, if you ever around my area I challange you to come over and see if you can pick which one of my beers is K&B and which one is AG. I bet you cant tell the differance (at least with my dark and semi darks). get the fundamentals of brewing right and you can make great beer with the basics. just remeber just becuase you make AG you can still screw it up.

EDIT
Chappo to answer your OT question, yes they are ok. some reciepes are on the G&G website. You can also take the recipes of any of the recipes on here and adapt them using specialty grains and hop schediules


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## Spiderpig (11/2/09)

Hi all,

I've done quite a few FWK's all of which have been amber ales of different descriptions.

The best one I've done IMHO has to be the 5 Malts Amber Ale, this is so yummy, I savour every drop. I have made a few of these now and they are good. I would suggest they are best left at least 2 months before consuming to really get the right notes in the flavour. I just use the US-05 ale yeast and it seems to work a treat.

If I would offer one suggestion it might be to steep a little carapils for some head retention. That is my only real criticism. I drink them straight from my collection of JSAA stubbies, there s a fair amount of sediment but it sticks really well to the bottom of the stubbie.

Go the 5 malt Amber Ale. I reckon it tastes a lot like the Barons Black Wattle or the Razorback Red Ale. Very good beer, you won't be disappointed.

Cheers,

Spider


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## chappo1970 (11/2/09)

Thanks guys for the input... the varying opinions IMO is what makes this forum great! Cheers

I am going to give these FWK's a whirl this weekend and see what happens. I think I might go for a summer ale or an IPA if available. Not sure which brand as I will have to see what Craftbrewer or the LHBS has in stock. I am familiar with these styles so it would be a reasonable bench mark for me to judge and form my opinion on these things. I will post the results back here for all that maybe interested.

To summarise the input into this thread to date:


Worthwhile doing but is more expensive than say K&Bits.
Good insight to how a reasonable AG brew should be if you haven't tried one (that's me to a tee)
Competition admission legal/illegal that's still out to debate but the yea's might have it?
Use a good yeast as you would with a K&K
Maintain good brewing practices
Watch the OG from the kit and add enough water only to obtain a reasonable OG for the style
Can add hops and odds and bobs to flavour to liking
Can leave out the hops and odds and bobs and still have a reasonable brew.
G&G have some interesting recipes for FWK's on their website
Fresher the FWK the better?
Get free cubes for when I get into AG (I reckon thats a bonus)
Less effort required to brew so more time to drink the spoils
Could give one the push and inspiration to move to full on AG.
Generally better than K&K
As a side issue I will enter my first FWK brew into a competition. I will check what's going at BABB's and have a go to settle the legal/illegal debate. Also *Lagerman* I will happily send you a few bottles of my first FWK brew to enter in the comp. Sounds like fun. Thanks for the invite. My Uncle and Aunty live in Bathhurst so I can have him enter them on my behalf I will PM you to arrange.  

If I have missed something please flame me! :lol: 

Cheers

Chappo


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## staggalee (11/2/09)

Peter Wadey said:


> There are brewers that are not members of AHB.
> We don't all run around telling others how wonderful/ successful we are - thank God



Steady on there.......no one here`s done that for at least a week. :lol: 

stagga.


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## dr K (11/2/09)

Like Peter Wadey, I have no idea where the concept that Wort Kits were illegal arose. They are not, never have been and have no reason to be. You are still the brewer, you select the yeast, the dilution ratio and any extras, no different to a can of concentrated "wort".



> Who determines the "style"? BJCP? I'ts not the be all and end all. It's not gospel. It's a comprimise guide set by a panel of people that want to be able to judge beers of like character, in the context of competition. I've yet to have any beer from a commercial brewery (including micros) that even consider the 'style' guidelines to be relevant in the real world.



As to the BJCP guidlines, well the BJCP guidlines are very very close to the BA guidlines though the BA guidlines encompass far more beers  WBC Guidlines.
The real world is about style guidlines, is about the diffference between an IPA and an APA, no-one is stopping you calling your APA an IPA, and maybe some folks cannot tell the difference, if these folks are the real world then there is no need for competitions based on style in the real world. Myself I like to live in that other, unreal to some, world.

Oh, the Wort Kits are very good, far better than anything you will ever produce from a can of mars bars base and some "bits".

K


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## Jakechan (11/2/09)

Chappo said:


> Thanks guys for the input... the varying opinions IMO is what makes this forum great! Cheers
> 
> I am going to give these FWK's a whirl this weekend and see what happens. I think I might go for a summer ale or an IPA if available. Not sure which brand as I will have to see what Craftbrewer or the LHBS has in stock. I am familiar with these styles so it would be a reasonable bench mark for me to judge and form my opinion on these things. I will post the results back here for all that maybe interested.
> 
> ...


You are a thorough man Chappo. This dedication will see you very successful in home brewing mate, and I dont think it will be long before you are doing AG. 
Cheers,
Jake


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## mwd (13/2/09)

Anybody tried the NNL FWK's sold under the Brewcraft name ?

They are the type sold by my LHBS.

The most common name seems to be the Brewers Selection range but being heavy I would imagine courier costs from the online stores would make them quite expensive to ship.


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## chappo1970 (13/2/09)

TB in about 3 weeks time I can ya mate! :lol: 

But seriously... the NNL brew I tried at the LHBS wasn't bad at all. That's what sparked me to give it a go.
The LHBS stocks NNL FWK's so the plan was to head over there tomorrow morning but...

if I get to Craftbrewers it might be a very different story, probably walk in wanting a FWK and walk out with an AG brewery. (That Ross is smooth, very smooth! :blink: )

You might have a hard time getting anything up that way ATM with a the flooding and all the roads out. 

Hope someone can enlighten you more on the NNL FWK's TB. Sorry I'm not much use to ya mate I am Noomby at FWK's myself.


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## /// (13/2/09)

KGB said:


> I'm pretty sure they're illegal




As someone who is often lampooned for his poor use of the English language, i wonder how the 'rules' of a competition have become part of the cannon of Australian Law to make them 'illegal'.

Also i do not mean to pray on folks who are not privy to as much info as I am lucky to have been, but the last time I checked the same professional brewers who make Coopers trade beers also make their extract. 

The wort all comes from Coopers Meura mash filter and thier Briggs brewhouse. That being so, and with Coopers being the main supplier of malt extract to the Australian Home Brewing industry, it would therefore make near every malt extract brew entered into a comp 'illegal'. What is a difference between a FWK and Malt Extract - a vacumm evaporator - both brewers mash and boil in a brewhouse the product by a professional brewer....

NNL has tight quality control mechanisms put into place by thier head brewer Dr Simon Brooke-Taylor. Check the gravity, I doubt it will be out by a tolerance level of 1.002 from that stated on the packaging. Simon runs a tight ship and expects those that brew for him to be just as tight; I know it was me for several years!

Scotty


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## Adamt (13/2/09)

I was just about to say something very similar:

All homebrew kits are evaporated, all-grain wort.


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## warrenlw63 (13/2/09)

/// said:


> expects those that brew for him to be just as tight; I know it was me for several years!



:blink: Little bit of on the job hazing there? Sure hope you don't sit down on the job too often Scotty! :lol: 

Warren -


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## /// (13/2/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> :blink: Little bit of on the job hazing there? Sure hope you don't sit down on the job too often Scotty! :lol:
> 
> Warren -



Simon's also a pommy ... well where could we go with that one.... jeez i hate you guys sometimes...

Scotty


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## mwd (13/2/09)

Good enough for me I will have a go at the 'Late Harvest Amber'.

No shipping costs involved for this one and a few dollars to to the LHBS.

Can't be spending all that hard earned at the site sponsors can I ?

Might even find a use for the cube afterwards too.


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## chappo1970 (13/2/09)

/// said:


> As someone who is often lampooned for his poor use of the English language, i wonder how the 'rules' of a competition have become part of the cannon of Australian Law to make them 'illegal'.
> 
> Also i do not mean to pray on folks who are not privy to as much info as I am lucky to have been, but the last time I checked the same professional brewers who make Coopers trade beers also make their extract.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the insight Scotty. 

Considering your insight have you got any good tips for a nice brew out of one of these FWK then?


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## /// (13/2/09)

Ferment with a good yeast and watch temp ....

Be clean too.

Scotty


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## chappo1970 (16/2/09)

UPDATE for those interested? 

OkeyDokey Folks,
Went to Craftbrewer on the Saturday and got the ND Brewing IPA 15lt fresh wort kit and some S05 yeasties. I got the IPA as I few K&B's down that I can directly compare against. Although if this works out I might get the Bitter next time.

So here is what I have found and done to the FWK brew.

EASY EASY EASY PEASY... These babies are a walk in the park. As previously posted by Scotty the FWK OG undiluted from the cube was in fact 1064. I added 4.4lts of water, allowing 600mls for the yeast pitching as I always now rehydrate, and that was it. SG was 1043 at 18 deg. No hops, no additional malts or specialialty grains. Just followed the instruction to the enth degree, which is not hard at all. In fact it was riddiculously quick and easy and I can see these being really good if you just want to put a couple of quick brews down in a hurry. All up from start to finish, including prep and cleanup, it took 30 mins. In fact I had the wort in the fermenting fridge for at least 20mins prior waiting for the yeast rehydration to kick.

The wort tasted good IMO and I am reasonably confident it's going to be a good beer. I probably should have added some hops but I kind of wanted to do this brew straight up K&K style (so I could compare) but I may dry hop with some kiwi cascades when I rack to secondary? I have dry hopped for a while now and it would probably be a more fair comparision to one of my kits and bits.

Sunday - Grav 1031 @ 18 deg - The air lock was nicely bubbling away and the krausen wasn't a huge one but it must have come and gone pretty quickly? The aroma from the fermenting fridge was awesome, tasted good but it's the bigger hops that is missing IMO so I will go dry hopping this at secondary and see if I can help it along a bit? I guess ND would be trying to cater for a broader range of tastes. I don't see this as a negative as I usually hop up my K&B's anyway.



Tropical_Brews said:


> Good enough for me I will have a go at the 'Late Harvest Amber'.
> 
> No shipping costs involved for this one and a few dollars to to the LHBS.
> 
> ...



TB how did you go over the weekend, did you get your FWK? It would be interesting if we both posted our results up here?



Jakechan said:


> You are a thorough man Chappo. This dedication will see you very successful in home brewing mate, and I dont think it will be long before you are doing AG.
> Cheers,
> Jake


Jakechan you are not wrong I started slipping to the darkside this weekend at CB's... went in for a FWK and some yeasties, walked out with the intended plus fittings, valves, bit and pieces to convert a 70lt SS milk can I have into a HLT... How does that happen? :huh: They must pump something into the air, well that what I tell the cheese and kisses :lol:


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## adraine (16/2/09)

Chappo my son you have inspired me to have a crack at these fwk's....
just need to clear a back long of k&b's (so as not to be wasteful).
I am keen to find out how she turns out...


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## mwd (16/2/09)

Chappo said:


> UPDATE for those interested?
> 
> 
> 
> TB how did you go over the weekend, did you get your FWK? It would be interesting if we both posted our results up here?



Yes but not done it yet got a "Boonies" LCPA type in the fermenter all ready to bottle hopefully today.

I am ready to go after bottling will save a cupful of the US-05 yeast and reuse.

Got about 150g of Crystal to use up and a new pack of Amarillo hops so may give it 15g for 15mins and maybe dryhop another 15g later.

It is The Brewcraft Late Harvest Amber I got.


----------



## chappo1970 (16/2/09)

adraine said:


> Chappo my son you have inspired me to have a crack at these fwk's....
> just need to clear a back long of k&b's (so as not to be wasteful).
> I am keen to find out how she turns out...



:super: Excellent Ardraine!!! Glad to be of service and welcome to the FWK club. I will definitely keep you posted on the results. If your interested PM me with your address and I will send you a bottle of Chappo's FWK for your sampling pleasure (I hope!) :icon_cheers: 
I hear you with the K&B's, I was in Coles on the weekend and I couldn't help myself I bought another can of Goop to make my Bitter Ale, my intention was to get away from K&B's but what the hell a man's gotta have something to do right? LOL




Tropical_Brews said:


> Yes but not done it yet got a "Boonies" LCPA type in the fermenter all ready to bottle hopefully today.
> 
> I am ready to go after bottling will save a cupful of the US-05 yeast and reuse.
> 
> ...


Amarillo :icon_drool2: the crystal couldn't hurt either maybe?

Same goes for you TB. If your interested PM me with your address and I will post you a bottle of my brew to try.

Maybe we can have mini bottle swap to try each others FWK results?

Just a thought?


----------



## Phoney (16/2/09)

I bought the Aussie Pale Ale on the weekend. Came with a US-05 yeast. See I usually drink CPA when im out, and I usually brew up variations of the coopers Australian Pale ale in k&k form, so im curious to see how much better it can taste out of all-grain. 


Im gonna mix it up next week & report back on how it tastes in a month or so.


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## chappo1970 (16/2/09)

Cool Phoney. If you think of it post your results up here Mate. Oh and welcome to the FWK Club!


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## adraine (16/2/09)

well im up for the Czech Pils so we can have a broad range to compare against :super:


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## mwd (16/2/09)

Tropical_Brews said:


> Yes but not done it yet got a "Boonies" LCPA type in the fermenter all ready to bottle hopefully today.
> 
> I am ready to go after bottling will save a cupful of the US-05 yeast and reuse.
> 
> ...



I meant Brewcellar not Brewcraft Doh.

LCPA style now bottled up Amber in waiting to cool down to pitching temp. Damn tap water is 26C and I added some clean ice.
Could not get in to edit previous post.


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## chappo1970 (17/2/09)

Tropical_Brews said:


> I meant Brewcellar not Brewcraft Doh.
> 
> LCPA style now bottled up Amber in waiting to cool down to pitching temp. Damn tap water is 26C and I added some clean ice.
> Could not get in to edit previous post.



I hear your pain TB water temp is around the 26C here too and is difficult to drop without the use of ice. The kegging fridge takes too long to chill the wort down to pitching temp even at 2C it will take 5 to 6 hours to drop to 20C from 26-28C.

UPDATE:
The IPA last night was 1022 @ 18C - Tastes good but definitely needs a hops finish for my tastes. Actually I am kicking myself I didn't do a hops boil when racking to the fermenter. I hope the dry hopping to secondary will correct some of it? I might suggest to others venturing this way to have a taste test before pitching to make sure the hops are where you like them.

It was burping away at a good steady rate, it appeared to me it had a second rush at the Krausen? I have never had that before but there is definely two krausen level marks left on the lid. The only thing I can think of is that maybe one of the kids opened the fridge somewhere in between? Strange?


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## chappo1970 (17/2/09)

adraine said:


> well im up for the Czech Pils so we can have a broad range to compare against :super:



Adraine that is awesome brother! Pils :icon_drool2: 

PM mate I will put you on my list of test subjects?


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## Supra-Jim (17/2/09)

Chappo said:


> UPDATE:
> The IPA last night was 1022 @ 18C - Tastes good but definitely needs a hops finish for my tastes. Actually I am kicking myself I didn't do a hops boil when racking to the fermenter. I hope the dry hopping to secondary will correct some of it? I might suggest to others venturing this way to have a taste test before pitching to make sure the hops are where you like them.



Just remember your dry hopping will impart mainly aroma and a small amount of flavour, for bittering you need them boiled. Waht was it you thought was missing hop bitterness/flavour/aroma/all of the above?

Remember also that carbonation will also change the taste perception of this beer.

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## chappo1970 (17/2/09)

Cheers SJ. Aroma and flavour IMO would be good at this stage. I am not disappointed but since hopping up my kits and bits I have a better appreciation and I guess palate for hops? I guess what I am saying it's a bit like tasting a straight K&K without bits to me at the moment. Granted it tastes a mile better but maybe I was expecting more?

SJ it was all of the above. Firstly very small hops start, sweet malty middle (still green I guess) and little aroma and blandish/nothing finish. No hops bite. I love IPA's and like em to have a rounded maybe even bold hops taste if you understand what I'm saying. Sorry SJ my description aren't great but I hope you get the idea. Do have a suggestion?


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## Supra-Jim (17/2/09)

Yeah no dramas i get what you're saying, and i guess my main advise would be to let this one ferment out, see how it tastes (taste at different temps, 5degC & maybe 9-10degC, this will release more hop aromatics). Most importantly record your results and then tweak it next time. 

Maybe (if you can't resist messing with it  we've all been there!!) throw in 15gms when you transfer to a secondary. Is it an English or an American IPA, as this will guide your choice (maybe Challenger for English and Cascade for American).

Remember, patience grasshopper, let it ferment and evaluate the finished beer. It is very difficult to pass judgement on an unfermented wort (other than to recognise something drastically wrong, like you mashed kitty litter, instead of pale malt  )

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## chappo1970 (17/2/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> ...like you mashed kitty litter, instead of pale malt)



ROFL... what's wrong with mashed kitty litter? Do it all the time! No stuck sparge. Maybe that's the twang I get? <_< Note to self feed cat barley and cut the sardines.

On the label it only says IPA so I can't tell you what it is styled on. I will have a better look tonight. SJ your right I started this journey to establish if a FWK was better than a kit and bits and was it worth the extra money, less time etc etc. So to stay true I really shouldn't muck around with it, should I? 

BUT I have some '08 Kiwi Cascade hop flowers AA 8.3% which I was going to use into the secondary but then again I have some Amo's as well? Tempted?

I know patience grasshopper but can't I just...  

Got it! Patience...


----------



## Supra-Jim (17/2/09)

Mashed kitty litter is the essential ingredient in Cerveza (note it must be well soiled!!!).

A quick check on the Craftbrewer website leads to the following:

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1851

It appears to be an English IPA, hopped with Fuggles, so i would try to resist the tempation to throw in those NZ Cascade and Amarillo (if you find it hard too do, PM me and i will give an address where they can be sent for um..... safe storage...... :unsure: ).

Try and grab some Fuggles if you really want to dry hop it. Remember also that English IPA's are milder and more rounded than their American versions.

Leave it alone, let it ferment, keg it, taste it, and if you find it lacking you can post said keg to the same address offered for the hops storage. It will be well looked after :chug: 

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## chappo1970 (17/2/09)

Bugger English huh? Was hoping like hell Aussie or Yank? Oh well live and learn...

Well I never tried and english IPA before so I will chalk it up to experience. 

I not that upset. It's what I love about this hobby the variety. Mainly from deadhead experimentation but it's the variety!  

PM me SJ with your address I will drop a bottle in the mail to you. You can give me a critique of the end product.


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## Supra-Jim (17/2/09)

Relax and have a homebrew Chappo, all will be fine. Don't be to quick to judge the English IPA, remember they were the buggers that developed it in the first place.

One further point worth considering (moreso if you find you like the final product) is that next time it should be fermented with an english yeast. Nottingham would a great dry yeast for this, and then there is a whole world of liquid yeasts to choose from.

The US-05 is a great yeast abd really helps to develop a clean crisp finish that allows the hops to shine through,though it does it's does it's best work in an american style ale. Something like nottingham will throw out a few more esters and definitely give a different end result. Relax though, you haven't done anything to hurt the brew.

OFF_TOPIC: I got my urn on friday, so my first all-grain brew is booked in for this sunday. Even though i have the garage to myself for brewing, the wife and kids are being sent off premisis to ensure no interuptions!!! :super: 

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## chappo1970 (17/2/09)

SJ Green gilled with envy. I hope the AG goes well for ya mate!


----------



## chappo1970 (18/2/09)

Update:

The IPA is at 1012 @ 18C - Some more hoppy flavours are starting to come through.
If the 1012 holds for another dayor so I am going to rack to secondary and fine 72 hours CC for 24/48 and bottle. Still nervious about the hops but I'm going to stick to the plan and SJ's suggestions and leave it alone...

Oh and the airlock has stopped! :lol:


----------



## Supra-Jim (18/2/09)

Chappo said:


> Oh and the airlock has stopped! :lol:



Quick, grab the phone and dial 1800-BUTTERS and if that line is busy (there are a lot of newbs around!!) try 1800-DEADKITTEN

Good to hear the IPA is coming along nicely. As a side point, i was wandering the aisles of Dan Murphys last night and stopped to read the label of a Squires IPA. Sounded quite similar to the description of the FWK you got from Craftbrewer.

You could go out grab one and taste it, however this will do one of two things:

1. You will enjoy it and relax about the beer you are fermenting and calmly wait for it to condition and then drink it all up

2. You will hate it, and dread every second it sits in the secondary, hate every moment you spend bottling and curse the the filled bottles while carbonate and condition.

The choice is yours, choose wisely.

(Disclaimer for both options the final beer you produce may be nothing like the Squires IPA and you will disappointed or overjoyed regardless)

I don't think this has been a very helpful post for you, but i thought i would throw the idea out there anyway!

:icon_cheers: SJ


----------



## chappo1970 (18/2/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> Quick, grab the phone and dial 1800-BUTTERS and if that line is busy (there are a lot of newbs around!!) try 1800-DEADKITTEN



:lol: LOL! I am sure Butters is going to hunt be down like a dog and skin me alive one day for starting that thread!



Supra-Jim said:


> ... Squires IPA. Sounded quite similar to the description of the FWK you got from Craftbrewer.
> 
> You could go out grab one and taste it, however this will do one of two things:
> 
> ...



SJ YOUR BLOODY RIGHT your not helping! <_< ...but thanks for keeping my rants in mind!

That's going to do my head in now. I work near a very good cellar that sells Squires IPA, I know I saw it last week and nearly bought it. Bought a carton of LCBA instead!  Now the tempation is going to be too big to ignore. Buggar it! I am going to get it and convince myself that it's megaswill and mine will taste better!!

Hey you set for the big day yet?


----------



## Supra-Jim (18/2/09)

Getting there, ordering grain etc tomorrow and picking up on friday. Just been down the road at lunch to grab a few S/S fittings so i swap out the tap from the Urn to a ball valve.

It's gettings close and i'm getting excited!!!!

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## buttersd70 (18/2/09)

Chappo said:


> :lol: LOL! I am sure Butters is going to hunt be down like a dog and skin me alive one day for starting that thread!



I'll leave your assisination in the hands of my little friend....




Edit: Beer up yer nose, Chappo?


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## chappo1970 (18/2/09)

GULP! :unsure:


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## Supra-Jim (18/2/09)

Chappo said:


> GULP! :unsure:



Chappo,

That wasn't the sound of you finishing off Butters cheif assasin for lunch was it??






:icon_cheers: SJ


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## chappo1970 (18/2/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> Chappo,
> 
> That wasn't the sound of you finishing off Butters cheif assasin for lunch was it??



LOL! :lol: 

no.......................... but I think I soiled myself? I've seen underbelly....


----------



## chappo1970 (24/2/09)

Update time:

The IPA is at 1010 @ 18C (last 3 days) - Definitely good flavours have developed through it.
The 1010 held for 3 days now so I am going to rack to secondary tonight and fine 48 hours CC for 24hrs and bottle. STILL nervious about the hops but I'm going to stick to the plan and SJ's suggestions and leave it alone...

Adraine, SJ and TB the bottles will be in the mail next week, they will be fresh of the press so depending on how long it takes to get to you, they might need another week to condition properly. I will PM when they are definitely on the way.

SJ by the way I tried the James Squire IPA as you suggested on Friday night. I would be hugely impressed if it turned out anywhere near that drop. :wub:


----------



## Supra-Jim (24/2/09)

Mmmmm.... can't wait!!! 

(I'm sure my first bit of feedback will read: Definitely not enough hop flavour/aroma/bitterness........  )

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## adraine (24/2/09)

sweet mate im looking forward to trying a fwk.

I may have to change from the Czech pilsiner that i had planned. my LHBS doesnt carry that one. will keep you posted.


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## chappo1970 (24/2/09)

Cool Adraine... keep us in the loop! I love a Pilsner though? A suggestion was made not to long ago that sounded good I'll see if I can dig it up?


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## chappo1970 (25/2/09)

Update time yet again:

The IPA is still at 1010 @ 18C (last 4 days) - Definitely good smooth flavours have developed through it, lost the sweetness but still a nice hint of malts but I'm still not happy with the hops flavour and aroma, it's lacking a finish IMO. I was "that far" (holding thumb and forefinger together) away from drying hopping it last night with some cascades but thought better of it. Damn conscience! :angry: It will interesting to see what the other guys think of it when they try it?

I racked to secondary cube last night and fined. I'm going to hold it for 24 hours CC for 48hrs and bottle on Saturday.

So all things being equal I'm on track to have then in the post say Monday morning.


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## Supra-Jim (25/2/09)

It's all sounding good. Can't wait to try it!

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## adraine (25/2/09)

Chappo said:


> Update time yet again:
> 
> The IPA is still at 1010 @ 18C (last 4 days) - Definitely good smooth flavours have developed through it, lost the sweetness but still a nice hint of malts but I'm still not happy with the hops flavour and aroma, it's lacking a finish IMO. I was "that far" (holding thumb and forefinger together) away from drying hopping it last night with some cascades but thought better of it. Damn conscience! :angry: It will interesting to see what the other guys think of it when they try it?
> 
> ...



Sounds like its a well cared for beer Chappo.
Im sure it will be great.
Looking forward to the taste test.

Adam


Edit: typo


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## chappo1970 (2/3/09)

UPDATE:

I resisted dry hopping this brew but I am sure that it will need it. Maybe I am turning into a hophead? Alright the FWK has been bulk primed and is the bottles. All I can do now it wait and taste test in 2 weeks.

Bottled 25 tallies which ain't bad considering I racked to clear. I did notice that in the trub and the second vessle that there was a fair amount of what looks break material. Maybe I got the last of a batch?

Guys, Adam and Supra-doopra-Jim, your samples have been packaged and will be sent today at lunchtime! I would love your feedback on these as well.


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## Jim_Levet (10/3/09)

Peter Wadey said:


> There are brewers that are not members of AHB.
> We don't all run around telling others how wonderful/ successful we are - thank God.
> 
> Rgds,
> Peter



WOW...................who would have thunk it!

James


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## adraine (17/3/09)

Chappo,

Got the 2 bottles of FWK today......Thanks.

Are they the same brew or 2 different brews? the only reason i ask is the caps have FWK 1 & FWK 2 on them.

I will be tasting tomorrow after work (Time to chill and settle) will let you know my thoughts for what its worth..

I have the pils down and still fermenting. so got a few week left yet before you see him. But its coming i promise.

Cheers Adam :beer:


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## chappo1970 (17/3/09)

Look forward to it Adam. 
Supra-Jim had one dead marine in his package but I guess 3 outa 4 ain't bad.

Hope you llike 'em. I wasn't impressed to start but they got a lot better. Down to the last 6 tallies...eeppp! Might have to get brewing!


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## adraine (18/3/09)

Man down ey?

Have to start training reinforcements.... :icon_cheers:


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## adraine (19/3/09)

Chappo,

received the bottles in the post yesterday and am sampling now.

Not bad although i feel it lacks the punch of a big IPA nice and smooth but not a great amount of bitterness at the end for my likening of an IPA.

Good effort tho a very drinkable beer.


ad


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

adraine said:


> Chappo,
> 
> received the bottles in the post yesterday and am sampling now.
> 
> ...



Yep that was my thoughts as well. Next time I would pepper it up with some extra hops, maybe even a boil with some of the FWK wort, just to give it a little more ommph! I actually thought it was a little over carbed myself as well but maybe that was the one bottle I tried?

Glad to have your feed back Adam. Cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## adraine (19/3/09)

hear what your saying about slightly over carbed but think thats is to do with the beer being a bit to cold. i lift the largey out while i drank it and as the chill was knocked off it slightly it started to taste better


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## andrewl (13/4/09)

Put down a ND hefeweizen last week after reading this topic. Kept it simple to try and see what the plain kit was like. Used safbrew and fermented it for 8 days. Went into secondary for c'cing the other day and tasted quite nice then. Just need to wait for the weekend so i can keg it!


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## adraine (14/4/09)

andrewl said:


> Put down a ND hefeweizen last week after reading this topic. Kept it simple to try and see what the plain kit was like. Used safbrew and fermented it for 8 days. Went into secondary for c'cing the other day and tasted quite nice then. Just need to wait for the weekend so i can keg it!



Sounds good andrewl lets us know how she is tasting.


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## chappo1970 (14/4/09)

andrewl said:


> Put down a ND hefeweizen last week after reading this topic. Kept it simple to try and see what the plain kit was like. Used safbrew and fermented it for 8 days. Went into secondary for c'cing the other day and tasted quite nice then. Just need to wait for the weekend so i can keg it!



+1

I really do think with these FWK's you need to brew a plain "Jane" base one first, to see what it needs, then you can work up what other additions to do to spice it up. My 1st FWK is all gone now but have since brewed 2 more and each time they got better and better IMO. Since going AG I actually change my mind and reckon they are worth it simply because of their no-fuss nature and they produce a decent drop with NO or LITTLE EFFORT. Last one was an Irish Red "Kilkenny" clone that I peppered up with a hop tea, dry hopping and 1087 yeasties. Sensational drop.

Good luck with it Andrew you won't be disappointed and the results will be very close to a good AG if not better.


----------



## fcmcg (14/4/09)

I have been doing the LHBS kits that they source ( from Mountain Goat here in Vic ) for 3 years now.I have always done a mini mash with FWK's or at least a hop addition so as to produce anything from a straight out ale or pilsener to a smoked bock .I've been more than happy with the results.Lets face it...it's better than doing a partial and infinitely better than a K&K and the troops keep coming back for more ! It is basically no-chill brewing from a craft brewer that he on-sells.
I will say though...i have just started doing AG...and i do love that because it's all MY own homemade you beaut beer...not a damn fine base with my own flavor additions
Anyway my 2c...
Must go...off to the LHBS..
Making my third all grain
Micktoberfest...from last years ANHBC...
Cheers


----------



## shark (7/10/09)

Hi,

Have done two of these so far (Brewers Selection) Original Porter and Norwest Pale Ale. Both very nice. So much better than kits.

Has anyone done the Brewers Selection Wheat beer? Think its the Hefeweizen. Whats it like?

Ben


----------



## DKS (7/10/09)

shark said:


> Hi,
> 
> Have done two of these so far (Brewers Selection) Original Porter and Norwest Pale Ale. Both very nice. So much better than kits.
> 
> ...




Yeh shark, I did the St Peters hefeweizen and split into two batches with diferent yeasts.
One with Danstar Munich and the other with a Weizen German lager.(2 brews for the price of , well 1 & a 1/2)

German lager yeast was more clove, than the Danstar Munich which was more banana.

At the time I thought they were better or above the quality of my K&K and K&bits to that date. Much fresher and somehow more exciting/zesty, and a challenge to explore yeast flavours.
Saying that, upon taste tests, I still thought they lacked something but couldnt say what. Maybe my brewing skills need refining or maybe hefes aint my fav taste.
I didnt see any point adding extra hops as they are suposedly driven by their yeast flavours. 
That was a year ago. 
Next w/e Im trying an AG wheat. We'll see if Ive lifted my game. 

Overall I would recommend you give it a go. Most of the fresh wort kits are very good. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## marlow_coates (7/10/09)

Shark,

Recently cracked the first bottles of the Hefeweizen, and they are tops.

Don't need any more hopping, in fact they tasted hoppier than commercial Hefe's I have had.

Beautiful drop, and when time is short I may looking at doing the FWK's again (this is the only one I have done)

Marlow

On an OT note - I am going to use the FWK's as an easy way for people to get into brewing. They have a much better chance of getting it right with a FWK the first time around, and IMO get a much better beer than trying the K+K or K+bits approach.
I reckon it will hook a few extra people into the hobby.


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## shark (8/10/09)

Thanks guys. Will pick one up next week. Guess I better just work my through the whole ND brewing range


----------



## Ragmans Coat (8/10/09)

Were can i buy these? They sound belter. Would be goop for when i can't make my own. Do you just add suger and water and firment? I would be well chuffed if i can get a nice pub mild


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## shark (8/10/09)

Ragmans Coat -> Where abouts do you live? Local HBS normally stock them.

Just add 5 litres of water. Makes 20 litres of wort.

_The Brewers Selection is fresh from the kettles of St. Peters Brewery in Sydney, to your fermenter. Made from only the freshest Australian and imported malted barley, hops, and water. Full mash quality without the hard work. All you have to do is add the yeast._

Our range includes:

Aussie Pale Ale A classic, easy drinking, session beer. A great thirst quencher on a hot summers day! Try it with either the DCL SO-4 dried yeast or the White Labs WLP005.

Comparable Commercial Beer - Coopers Pale Ale

Czech Pilsner The brilliant Golden colour results from the combination of locally grown Pilsner & Munich malts. Generous additions of Saaz hops create a pronounced floral spicy finish and wonderful herbaceous aroma. Goes great with the DCL W34/70 Lager yeast, or any of the White Labs lager yeasts.

Comparable Commercial Beer - Matilda Bay Bohemian Pilsner.

Lager A traditional German style Lager. Bright straw colour with a balance of malt & hop flavours. Goes great with the DCL W34/70 Lager yeast, or any of the White Labs lager yeasts.

Comparable Commercial Beer - Becks, Heineken

Chocolate Porter Roast barley & wheat help create the rich dark chocolate flavours that separate this Porter from other dark ales. Generous additions of East Kent Goldings hops create a delicately complex beer

Comparable Commercial Beer James Squire Porter.

Norwest Pale Ale (American Pale) - This Pale Ale is all about big Cascade hopped flavour, well-balanced with a big zesty citrus hop aroma, full malt character with a big bitter finish. Try it with the DCL US-56 Dried yeast or White Labs WLP001.

Comparable Commercial Beer Little Creatures Pale Ale

India Pale Ale - The use of locally grown Pale & Munich malts, create a rich, golden colour, with a robust, malt character. Generous additions of kettle hops early in the boil, help build a characteristic highly hopped bitterness with a crisp finish on the palate. The earthy, floral aromas of UK grown Fuggles hops are the signature of this hand crafted traditional India Pale Ale. Try it with either the DCL SO-4 dried yeast or the White Labs WLP023.

Comparable Commercial Beer James Squire IPA, Gage Roads IPA

Amarillo Ale - I have to admit that it isn't the most imaginative name, but the two late additions of Amarillo hops will really stand out in this refreshingly crisp "Golden" style ale. Try it with the DCL US-56 Dried yeast or White Labs WLP001.

Comparable Commercial Beer James Squire Golden Ale.

Hefeweizen - A traditional German Hefeweizen. Low on hop flavours with a large percentage of locally grown wheat in the grain bill. The use of a low flocculating wheat style yeast it will create a cloudy finish, true to style.

Celtic Red Ale - A malt driven full bodied beer, moderately hopped, with a brilliant rust red colour. Along the lines of a Kilkenny style Red Ale, this is certain to be a popular drop. Try it with the White Labs Liquid yeast, WLP004 Irish Ale yeast, or the safale SO4 dried yeast.


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## Ragmans Coat (8/10/09)

shark said:


> Ragmans Coat -> Where abouts do you live? Local HBS normally stock them.
> 
> Just add 5 litres of water. Makes 20 litres of wort.
> 
> ...




Thanks shark i am located near cairns currently. Which retailer would be nearest?


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## shark (8/10/09)

Retailers are listed on their website:

http://www.ndbrewing.com.au/index.php?page=retailers


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## beerbog (6/4/10)

I think the ND kits are awesome, I've done most of them and with a little extra hops added taste great. Favourites are the Norwest, Hef and Amarillo. Even the bare bones bitter tastes great. B) B) B)


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## bluedoors (7/4/10)

I've brewed a few of the FWK's and have been impressed so far. They aren't as involved, but you get a good quality product at the end.

The Cerny Pivo was a wonderful drop, only made it up to 18l. I find most of the FWK's do better when less than the 5l water is added.

Norwest Pale Ale i went for something extra hoppy, so boiled 25g of Cascade hops and then left the bag in the fermenter, and made it up to 19l.

I've just put down a Heffe at Easter that was with 25g Saaz and 500g Dry wheat spray malt, to give it some extra body again to 19l. Will have to see how it comes out.

But what do people do with the used containers?.. i've got 3 now sitting in the cellar, but surely they are re-suable for something


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## mckenry (7/4/10)

BlueDoors said:


> But what do people do with the used containers?.. i've got 3 now sitting in the cellar, but surely they are re-suable for something


Where are you BlueDoors? I can take them off your hands if you're close to me, or in Sydney?
cheers, mckenry


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## Fester (7/4/10)

I'm up to my 5th FWK from ND now. Best beer I've ever brewed from a kit. The Summer Ale has been my favourite. The Porter has been very similar to a Toohey's Old. And the Aussie Pale Ale is very similar to a Cooper's Red.

I just add 5 liters and thenput them in my brewing fridge where I'm fortunate to be able to maintain a constant 18-20 degrees. My next try will be one of the lagers which I should manage to brew at 12 degrees with the supplied Saflager yeast.

For anyone wanting to try them I can't recommend them highly enough. Easiest way to get a quality beer at a reasonable price.

Cheers.

Bluedoors, I buy mine from Peakhurst HBS so I just take the containers back for a $3 refund.


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## AussieJosh (12/4/10)

I seen these today at BrewCraft, and this thread has got me really intrested in them! Think ill grab one next weekend! Maybe the pale ale or the Pils!


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## manticle (12/4/10)

There's a thread around somewhere started by Chappo. I think the title is exactly the same and the basic response was yes. Worth hunting up though because there was a lot more detailed info in there.


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## AussieJosh (13/4/10)

[email protected]!
Is that not this very thread!?? :icon_drunk:


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## Bribie G (13/4/10)

And Manticle is the one who accuses _moi_ of having senior moments  

Whenever I'm in Sydney I always head for Newtown / Camperdown / Nags head territory and get stuck into the St Peters' Brewery ales and lagers and I believe the ND FWKs come from the same place. I've only made one, as we are right at the end of the suppy chain here, but it turned out under hoppy as it's basically just a no chill cube of wort... Easily fixed with 30g of the appropriate hop made into a hop tea and added on pitching.


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## manticle (13/4/10)

AussieJosh said:


> [email protected]!
> Is that not this very thread!?? :icon_drunk:




Um...................




Um........................


BribiG have you seen my um.............. my....um

Hello,

I'm new here. My name is manticle and I've been brewing um........for..........um...........

Woops

Has anyone seen my trousers?


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## AussieJosh (4/5/10)

Sorry to bring this thread back again!
About 8 days ago i put down an Amarillo FWK 15lts I toped it up with 5 more liters of water and chucked in the US05! I was a naughty boy and did not take an OG reading! I will be taking a reading later today but would just like to know what kinda FG i will be looking at for this beer?, Just so i know if my reading is in the zone or not!
of course ill make sure i have 2 steady reading over two days!
Thanks for ya help!


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## shawnheiderich (4/5/10)

Mine have all finished @ about 1012-14.

Shawn


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## thylacine (4/5/10)

"...But what do people do with the used containers?.. i've got 3 now sitting in the cellar, but surely they are re-suable for something ..."

My four FWK containers are now fermenters. ie. taps installed and experimental stove-top "mini-biab" recipes trialled. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=153


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## AussieJosh (4/5/10)

Im also gonna use mine as a fermenter some day! There a very handy size!


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## rendo (4/5/10)

tombliboo trousers?????
(for us parents our there!)



manticle said:


> Um...................
> 
> Has anyone seen my trousers?


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## michaelcocks (4/5/10)

AussieJosh said:


> Sorry to bring this thread back again!
> About 8 days ago i put down an Amarillo FWK 15lts I toped it up with 5 more liters of water and chucked in the US05! I was a naughty boy and did not take an OG reading! I will be taking a reading later today but would just like to know what kinda FG i will be looking at for this beer?, Just so i know if my reading is in the zone or not!
> of course ill make sure i have 2 steady reading over two days!
> Thanks for ya help!



Did this one a while back 

beauty...

My notes say finished at 1011 with US 05 after 15 days

Leave the US05 (it can be a bit "dusty" and takes a while to clear)

As far as the original question - Any good ?

Never ad a bad one although a bit expensive for everyday brewing (and I actually like the process I have) If I just need to put something down quickly... They are my go to range - plus you get a quality yeast and a "cube" to play with as a "no chiller" or a small fermenter

Happy Brewing

:chug:


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## mxd (5/5/10)

that's what mine finish at as well, I do get annoyed with these (doesn't stop me buying em) as the OG with the 5 ltrs water is around 1.040, so I generally put same LME in.



shawn_H said:


> Mine have all finished @ about 1012-14.
> 
> Shawn


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## Digger11 (5/5/10)

So OG of 1040, FG of say 1012, gives ABV of (very roughly) about .28*.13 +0.3% = 3.9%. 

Q1. Isn't that pretty weak ??? Even my K&K's come out at around 4.5%.
Q2. I tried a FWK Grape and Grain #2 with US-05 but added some hops that started with T as per a recipe on their website. Didn't really like it - but I have a feeling it was the strong hoppy taste I didn't like, not the FWK itself. Has anyone done a similar FWK but not added anything other than 5 litres water + yeast ??? If so, does it taste like an AG brew ?

thanks
Digger


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## jbowers (26/6/10)

Trying an undercarbed bottle (2 days old, felt carbed but clearly not) of my Grain and Grape hefe. Really quite good. A hefe suffers without suffish carbonation but its got the banana notes that i wanted and sufficient tartness and a touch of clove to balance it.

Not as cheap as AG, but for 54 dollars including wyeast 3068, it's not too bad. Especially considering I can literally pour it in to the fermenter, aerate it for 2 minutes and pitch the smack pack. For those who just want to make some quick and easy quaffing ale, it's pretty f***ing ideal.


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## JestersDarts (24/8/10)

Good Morning gentlemen, 

Does anyone know where in Adelaide you can get these from?

JD


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## Creedy (24/8/10)

JestersDarts said:


> Good Morning gentlemen,
> 
> Does anyone know where in Adelaide you can get these from?
> 
> JD



I believe Brewcraft stock them, at least it mentions them on the website.
I've been tempted to try on myself.

Cheers,
Creedy


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## JestersDarts (24/8/10)

ugh brewcraft..

i _may _drag myself there to have a _look_


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## ledgenko (24/8/10)

The cubes are handy for storing fresh homemade wort in. Not sure about use as a fermenter as I think they would be a bastard to clean out!! Although I agree with shape being a handy size but you would only be able to ferment around 10 lt at a time!! And that would totally blow!! Lol.


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