# Dry hopping leaves taste like chewing the pellets



## Bougie!st (9/10/17)

Hi - wondering about others' experiences with dry hopping

My usual process has been to let the beer ferment to completion, then add my dry hop charge. I store my pellet hops in the deep freeze (-20 deg), in their original packet, with the air purged as best i can and closed with those ikea clips. Then they are stored in what are supposed to be airtight containers to keep them away from the other items in the freezer. I measure my charge, into another bag to purge with CO2, then add loose into the fermenter, avoiding splashing. Let sit for 2 days at fermentation temp (I'll usually go up a couple of degrees - say 18 to 20 if an APA with US-05 - to let it clean up), then cold crash with finings for 2 days and keg

I seem to often be getting an unpleasant additional flavour to my dry hopped beers, particularly if I use a higher charge. I can only describe this as being like chewing on the actual pellets themselves (which I often do to taste them, or to make sure they don't taste like the old cheese, off flavour/aroma from storage). It gets better with age, but doesn't go away

Does anyone else have this experience? If so, how did you solve it?

My most recent effort was a pale ale with 30g each of mosaic, amarillo, citra and simcoe (120g in total). The beer is good, though it would be a heck of a lot better without that extra flavour. I don't taste it in heavily dry hopped commercial beers.

Some of my hops are about 6 months old (that I've had them for) - everything that I've read indicates they should be ok. My next trials will be to do the same thing again with only brand new hops and see. Otherwise, adding just before fermentation is complete to see if that scrubs out that flavour.

Any experience making those changes or other suggestions? Otherwise, I just think I'll leave dry hopping altogether - though I know that there a very tasty dry hopped beers around, I can't seem to be good at it myself!


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## mtb (9/10/17)

120g of dry hops is a lot - depending on the rest of your hop schedule of course.

Have you tried just halving your DH quantities? "Heavily hopped" commercial beers may even use less, I know of a few that certainly do.


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## mtb (9/10/17)

Also - how long following dry hop do you taste?


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## Bougie!st (9/10/17)

Thanks, mate. I've found this in dry hopping with 40+ grams. That beer I mentioned was to be a hoppy APA and is the highest I've done. That beer was to try pushing the dry hop a bit and see what all the fuss was about. I know it's a higher dry hop charge, but it wasn't out of the range of a number of recipes I've seen. 

The hop schedule was:
12g columbus @60
15g ea amarillo, citra, simcoe, mosaic at flameout for 20 min steep
30g each of above for dry hop
IBU - 45 per BS2

Usually I use up to about 60g for dry hop - still with that flavour though, and with different hops. To be fair, when I've done it with charges as low as 15-30g, I haven't had that flavour.



mtb said:


> Also - how long following dry hop do you taste?



I'm a frequent sampler. I'll taste prior to kegging, then once it's carbonated (at about a week). The APA I mentioned is currently two months old


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## mtb (9/10/17)

Do you leave the hops in indefinitely? Or remove them after a period of time? If the latter - how long do they stay in for?


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## MHB (9/10/17)

What I suspect you are tasting is mostly the vegetal matter in the hops, along with lots of turpins and other hop fractions that are usually ejected in the boil.
Assuming we are talking a "standard" 23L brew 120g dry hoped is bordering on ridiculous. SN Torpedo Extra a very firmly dry hopped IPA uses about just under 70g in 23L, so as mtb says half the hops.
Added earlier (or at the start) in the ferment the evolution of CO2 will strip quite a lot of the volatiles, might be worth a try.
Some of the flavours will mature out, so give it a chance.
Mark


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## Bougie!st (9/10/17)

mtb said:


> Do you leave the hops in indefinitely? Or remove them after a period of time? If the latter - how long do they stay in for?



I don't do secondary - add them loose into the primary, 2 days at ferment temp, 2 at cold crash, then keg. So they are removed at 4 days.



MHB said:


> Assuming we are talking a "standard" 23L brew 120g dry hoped is bordering on ridiculous.



That was for the 23L brew - I pushed it to 120g per BYO (https://byo.com/mead/item/569-dry-hopping-techniques), rounding up to 30g instead of 28g for an oz equivalent.

I'm still getting it with 40-60g of dry hop though, so it hasn't seemed to me to be just a quantity issue.

There are a lot of others out there using even more. The brulosophy guys did a comparison of 60g vs 180g - the latter apparently winning an award. Granted, it was an IPA, not an APA, but there are a lot of recipes out the using such an amount of hops, and I can't find anything in the forums mentioning this taste. I'm wondering if those that use greater amounts of hops are getting the same problem?


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## kaiserben (9/10/17)

Generally I dry hop IPAs with between 70-100g for a 23L batch size.

On the weekend I pitched yeast into one of the Brew Dog recipes that calls for 250g dry hops.

EDIT: So I guess my point being that 120g isn't exactly outrageous.


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## mtb (9/10/17)

Consider also, you may simply be more sensitive to these flavours than most. I personally don't hop nearly that heavily because I get strong flavours from 1/3 of 120g in a 19L keg, and anything more tastes chewy and vegetal.

Dry hopping at a lower rate lets you test these flavour thresholds, and you can always add more later.


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## Dave70 (9/10/17)

From memory, less is more when it comes to dry hopping with Simcoe and / or Amarillo. You really need to post the recipe up.


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## mtb (9/10/17)

Dave70 said:


> From memory, less is more when it comes to dry hopping with Simcoe and / or Amarillo. You really need to post the recipe up.


He did.. well the hop schedule anyway:
12g columbus @60
15g ea amarillo, citra, simcoe, mosaic at flameout for 20 min steep
30g each of above for dry hop


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## hirschb (9/10/17)

The issue is likely time. You do not need 4 days to extract the hop oils, and in that time, you're picking up a lot of the vegetal off-flavors from the hops.
I normally dry hop for two days- start at ferm temp, and then immediately cold crash. This will pull the hops down to the bottom of the fermenter and infuse the beer with all the lovely oils fairly quickly. There are multiple reports that additional dry hopping time (especially at higher temps) leads to vegetal off flavors. There are also widely divergent opinions about particular hop varietals that are more prone to this issue. Your dry hop quantities are not outrageous, I'd just adjust the amount of time/temp, and I think you'll be fine.


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## mtb (9/10/17)

hirschb said:


> There are multiple reports that additional dry hopping time (especially at higher temps) leads to vegetal off flavors


Reports I've seen described said flavours after 7 - 14 days, not 4. I'd say many brewers here dry hop for four days without a care in the world, and there's a reason for that.


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## malt junkie (9/10/17)

You also have to consider the roll supporting malt flavours provide, if there is no real malt back bone and the beer is thin, then even hoping at 1g/l can be a little chewy


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## SnailAle (9/10/17)

Sorry to pull away from the initial point but on dry hopping is it essential to be cold crashing? I want to try a beer with dry hopping but don't have access to a fridge to chill. Could I just dry hop at ferment temp for two or three days and pull the hops after that?


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## Bougie!st (9/10/17)

Dave70 said:


> You really need to post the recipe up.



Grain bill was all Gladfield (OG 1.047)
american ale 2.4kg
vienna 1.2
wheat 0.5
light crystal 0.25
toffee 0.25
sour grapes 0.1

12g columbus @60
15g ea amarillo, citra, simcoe, mosaic at flameout for 20 min steep
30g each of above for dry hop

Yeast nutrient, whirlfloc in boil
US-05 fermented at 18
Biofine added at cold crash (2 days prior to kegging)


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## malt junkie (9/10/17)

What was final gravity?


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## kaiserben (9/10/17)

SnailAle said:


> Sorry to pull away from the initial point but on dry hopping is it essential to be cold crashing? I want to try a beer with dry hopping but don't have access to a fridge to chill. Could I just dry hop at ferment temp for two or three days and pull the hops after that?



Nah. You'll get better results with crash chilling, but I've made batches without and the beer was still good. Just dry hop 3 days before packaging. Package. Carbonate. And then drink them fairly quickly. Better if you can get them all in the fridge when they're carbonated.

One thing though is that I'd use a hop sock. I wouldn't put hops straight in if I wasn't going to be able to crash chill. (I did once and won't again. Way too much hop matter in the finished beer).


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## Gloveski (9/10/17)

Found this interesting especially the section under dry hop contact time 


http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/


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## hoppy2B (9/10/17)

Pellets can be pretty rank when used to dry hop. I find whole cones a lot less offensive. Whole cones tend to benefit from being put through the blender first.


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## 2cranky (9/10/17)

I just chuck'em in loose after 72 hours - this is when a start raising temp from 18 to 22. So after 3 or 4 days I'll cold crash to 5 then gel. and crash again to 2 for 24 hours. 
so probably around 5 or 6 days from DH to keg.
my IPAs are dry hopped between 125 and 185 for a 19 litre batch.
no off flavours - unless you class delicious as one


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## hirschb (9/10/17)

mtb said:


> Reports I've seen described said flavours after 7 - 14 days, not 4. I'd say many brewers here dry hop for four days without a care in the world, and there's a reason for that.


Yeah, for most beers, you're 100% right. However, for super hoppy beers using certain hop varietals, reports of grassy off-flavors within a few days are not uncommon. Given his initial complaint (grassy flavor), the most likely culprit is dry hopping time. I'm not saying everyone should do 48hr dry hopping, but in this case, it'd be the first thing I'd try to troubleshoot the off-flavor.


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## Bougie!st (9/10/17)

I must say, I really like how keen everyone is to help out on this forum. Thanks for all the discussion!

Re the FG - it was 1.010, bang on my expected.

There are a few ideas on here I can try, and I can use that recipe to see how it goes. Maybe make it a split batch next few times and try time/amount/timing/etc

The reason I do a 4 day dry hop was because I was getting those grassy flavours with a longer period. It literally had notes of tasting like chewing on grass. This is different though. It is that pungent, chewy flavour, maybe some bitterness (but that is not the word, and its not astringency), like munching on the hop pellet. I did four days so that I had 2 days of dry hop at the warmer temps, then straight into cold crash for clarity and to drop the hop material out. I often taste brews on the way through so I can understand what's going on - I've picked up this flavour from after a single day. Part of why I do the testing is so that I can also make adjustments on the fly. I found out that dry hopping with nelson sauvin tastes like burnt rubber to me, so was able to pull it out of a previous batch before it totally ruined it (when I was using hop socks)


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## 2cranky (9/10/17)

Burnt rubber? That's a bit different. 
It's not your water is it?


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## Bougie!st (9/10/17)

2cranky said:


> Burnt rubber? That's a bit different.
> It's not your water is it?


I doubt it - only ever got that flavour with NS. I use metabisulfite, and am guided by Bru'n water using the water company reports. That particular beer tasted great with NS and mosaic together through the boil. It was when I dry hopped with them both (30g each) that it went horrible. I took the NS out after 3 days (and the original mosaic) and put in another 30g mosaic which balanced the flavour a lot more. Settled with time but never totally went away. I've found that description of NS dry hop as diesel/burnt rubber on other forums. It's like simcoe - I never get the cat pee that others get


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## 2cranky (9/10/17)

I haven't been brewing long and I'm yet to experience any bad flavours. It's weird I've checked through a few of my recipes and I've used the same hops as you, but not in the same combination. 
I don't carb my dry hops though.
Ive just done a second batch of a loose Brew Dogs Punk clone that is heavily dry hopped 185g and uses nelson, Amarillo, simcoe and a few others. No grassy or burnt rubber in the last batch. I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## manticle (9/10/17)

Just drop the dry hop out and go harder with late/aroma hopping. Then if you're not getting the aroma and flavour you like, start slowly adding in a judicious dry hop (both in terms of time and amount).

Everyone's perception is different, I personally don't go much for big dry hops but they do settle out with a bit of time.

And **** brulosophy. Waste of time. They could compare gose with Belgian quad in a blind taste test with six and a half people and probably get an insignificant result.


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## Bridgey23 (9/10/17)

You could make a hop tea and add to fermenter before bottling / kegging. Just leave your wort short the same amount as your hop tea 500ml, 1l for eg. Don't boil it just heat to about 60c. That way you can taste what your adding. Experiment with different strengths.


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## Dave70 (10/10/17)

When I began AG brewing, I recall this beer was pretty much the gold standard for double IPAs and received almost universal praise. Plenty of dry hopping, not just one, but count em, _two_ additions. And plenty of days on those hops. Personally, once I started to get a handle on cohumulone levels in hops as it relates to harshness for example, and why one high IBU beer was delicious and the other turned your face inside out, my beers improved markedly (subjectively..). _But_, the secret is in the technique. And love. Of course. 

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/6351/doubleIPA.pdf


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## blink471 (24/10/17)

If I could add my to this with limited experience. I made a beer that was my first venture into dry hopping, never bothered with it before. But it turned out fantastic... I used Mosaic, and added 20g to fermenter when I was happy it had finished and reached FG. I let it sit at ferm temp for 2 days, and then used fining and cold crashed. I kegged the other night and couldn't believe the unreal aroma the Cream Ale style beer had (I realise Cream ale style typically should have low aroma). I tasted it from keg last night and although its a bit early and not fully conditioned... I couldnt believe how fantastic it tasted. I didn't get any grassy flavours that I could pick, but the aroma from the beer is fruity. If I sound excited I am, as I cant believe I never dry hopped before, just used hops for bittering.


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