# Robobrew V3 vs Guten



## Vazerhino

so WEAL teased a R3 v Guten thread - here it is

I’ve been using Robobrew V2 for eighteen months. Very happy overall. Two recent issues have caused me to start the dreaded process of should I or shouldn’t I. The rocker switch is loose, but still functional. The + temp button died a couple of brews ago, and now the - button takes some finessing. OTOH, very happy with my results thus far. 

I was considering RB V3, obviously. Don’t actually need the new bells and whistles other than delayed start as I usually hover on brew days anyway. Read through the Guten thread(s) in their entirety. WEAL is clearly experienced with the unit and is going to back that up with a buy of the bigger unit. However, gluten seems to have had many more issues than I have had on the Robobrew. 

Why not the RB V3?


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## goatchop41

I've got a Guten myself, and am part of both Guten and RB groups on FB.
From my own observations, there are waaaayyyyyyy more people in the RB groups constantly complaining about failure of the electronics and circuit boards, overheating, and even a few recent examples of swarf (metal shavings from machining) being in the pump after purchase and blocking it...the quality control unfortunately doesn't sound too great.
I'm yet to see anywhere near the level of complaint about issues with the Guten/Ace/Klarstein (if anyone knows of any widespread issues, I'd love to know what they are/be pointed to a forum discussing them, so that I can be prepared with my unit).


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## wide eyed and legless

Definitely going to have a Robobrew 3 V Guten we can also throw the Grainfather into the mix, maybe we can put forward some likes and dislikes about all three,and what modifications any of the three would benefit by. But to be fair and to stop any hijacking of the thread maybe those with experience of the three units mentioned should be the only ones to post and answer questions.


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## tanked84

I’ve got a Robobrew v3.
First impressions were not great as it blew up on the first boil.
It was fixed that week and returned.
Brewed 5 beers since without a problem. It’s great when it works.
The programmable steps are pretty useless. Time needs to start from when it hits the temp, not ramping up aswell.


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## wide eyed and legless

tanked84 said:


> I’ve got a Robobrew v3.
> First impressions were not great as it blew up on the first boil.
> It was fixed that week and returned.
> Brewed 5 beers since without a problem. It’s great when it works.
> The programmable steps are pretty useless. Time needs to start from when it hits the temp, not ramping up aswell.


Hold your horses we haven't started yet.


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## Fro-Daddy

wide eyed and legless said:


> But to be fair and to stop any hijacking of the thread maybe those with experience of the three units mentioned should be the only ones to post and answer questions.



If you mean someone who has used all 3, this will be a very short and boring thread.

I own a Robo V2, only had one issue which was it cut out when coming to a boil once. It was likely that it was because I was using an old crappy extension cord (apparently that's kinda common).
Since putting in a new power point outside I've had no dramas.




goatchop41 said:


> I'm yet to see anywhere near the level of complaint about issues with the Guten/Ace/Klarstein (if anyone knows of any widespread issues, I'd love to know what they are/be pointed to a forum discussing them, so that I can be prepared with my unit).



I'm not in that group, but are there a similar amount of active members to the Robo group?


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## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> If you mean someone who has used all 3, this will be a very short and boring thread.
> 
> Someone with first hand knowledge of any of the units,


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## Leyther

goatchop41 said:


> I've got a Guten myself, and am part of both Guten and RB groups on FB.
> From my own observations, there are waaaayyyyyyy more people in the RB groups constantly complaining about failure of the electronics and circuit boards, overheating, and even a few recent examples of swarf (metal shavings from machining) being in the pump after purchase and blocking it...the quality control unfortunately doesn't sound too great.
> I'm yet to see anywhere near the level of complaint about issues with the Guten/Ace/Klarstein (if anyone knows of any widespread issues, I'd love to know what they are/be pointed to a forum discussing them, so that I can be prepared with my unit).




The pcb/pump switch on the Guten is problematic, I know myself, WEAL and Magic Pancake have all had to replace this, its only a cheap component to replace so not the end of the world but they should improve the quality there.

My only other issue with it is the original bazooka, as a hop filter its as useful as a chocolate teapot however I now use it when doing larger brews to slot over the overflow pipe to give some more height, just be careful with it as its sharp on the edges and I've managed to stab myself a few times with it!!

As an enhancement it would be good if they provided an extra piece to extend the overflow pipe so you can still use the top plate when doing larger brews, I'm sure its something you can probably knockup yourself I just havn't got around to doing it yet, next thing on my list for the machine.


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## wide eyed and legless

Also on the switch, standing at the front of the machine the pump switch is behind the on/off switch. as the pump switch is used the most during the brew it is better to have the pump switch as the foremost switch to save accidentally switching off the machine during the brew. When I replaced my switch ($7)
I put the pump switch to the front, hell of a lot better.

Going full volume is tricky but there are ways to get more into the malt pipe, as Leyther says the central overflow pipe is to short but can be extended with some silicone hose, I think I used 25 mm ID cut it with a box cutter down the length and it folds in on itself. The problem then is the handle holes where the grains can get through.





Another piece of silicone through both holes and another litre or two of liquor can go in.
Funny thing is, any grain that has left the malt pipe has just been pumped up and back into the malt pipe. Grainfather has the same pump but a number of complaints that the pump gets blocked, so really the only issue I have had was the switch.


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## goatchop41

Leyther said:


> The pcb/pump switch on the Guten is problematic, I know myself, WEAL and Magic Pancake have all had to replace this, its only a cheap component to replace so not the end of the world but they should improve the quality there.
> 
> My only other issue with it is the original bazooka, as a hop filter its as useful as a chocolate teapot however I now use it when doing larger brews to slot over the overflow pipe to give some more height, just be careful with it as its sharp on the edges and I've managed to stab myself a few times with it!!
> 
> As an enhancement it would be good if they provided an extra piece to extend the overflow pipe so you can still use the top plate when doing larger brews, I'm sure its something you can probably knockup yourself I just havn't got around to doing it yet, next thing on my list for the machine.



Where did you get the new switch from? (Again, so I know when I need one).

I have done as WEAL does, and just use a piece of silicone tubing to extend the overflow pipe.

WEAL, do you find that you get better efficiency with a fuller volume mash and therefore smaller sparge? I have seen some on the RB groups claim that they get better efficiency with a smaller volume mash and larger sparge!


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## goatchop41

tanked84 said:


> I’ve got a Robobrew v3.
> The programmable steps are pretty useless. Time needs to start from when it hits the temp, not ramping up aswell.



This appears to be a point scored for the Guten - the timer on it only starts once the temp has been reached


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## Leyther

goatchop41 said:


> Where did you get the new switch from? (Again, so I know when I need one).
> 
> I have done as WEAL does, and just use a piece of silicone tubing to extend the overflow pipe.
> 
> WEAL, do you find that you get better efficiency with a fuller volume mash and therefore smaller sparge? I have seen some on the RB groups claim that they get better efficiency with a smaller volume mash and larger sparge!



WEAL got me a couple of singles from Jaycar, you just need to file the plastic sides down to get them to fit into the original cut out, I also picked up a couple of dual gangs from ebay that I have as spares, these should be a straight replacement but came from China so took about 6weeks to get here.

Personally I find much, much better efficiency with a sparge, I've been very low when doing full volume boils, I switched to full vol for convenience but I'll be switching back on my next brew.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

goatchop41 said:


> This appears to be a point scored for the Guten - the timer on it only starts once the temp has been reached



The timer function is pretty unreliable, i've found that it also stops when it gets below set temp then starts again when it reaches temp. Found this by having a timer in my phone just incase it turned off. By the time the boil was finished on my phone the timer still had a few minutes to go. 

I'm going to get the smart pid controller to replace the stock controller then when the guten craps out I'll use the controller on a new single vessel.


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## andyt23

Both Gutens are in store now


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## wide eyed and legless

goatchop41 said:


> Where did you get the new switch from? (Again, so I know when I need one).
> 
> I have done as WEAL does, and just use a piece of silicone tubing to extend the overflow pipe.
> 
> WEAL, do you find that you get better efficiency with a fuller volume mash and therefore smaller sparge? I have seen some on the RB groups claim that they get better efficiency with a smaller volume mash and larger sparge!


According to J Palmer the efficiency drops so more grain is required, I haven't found this to be the case, in his first book there wasn't the RMT's around then like there is now, but when Leyther said his efficiency was lower and I mentioned the longer mash time and the crush, something else came to mind and I was going to send him a PM. For the life of me I can't remember what is was but I will, one thing for sure was the efficiency was the same as the BM and logically that shouldn't be the case because the BM has pump breaks so the grains actually fall then lift, much like giving it a stir.
The switches I got from Jaycar.


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## wide eyed and legless

Come on Robobrew 3 users, don't be embarrassed or shy, a problem shared is a problem halved.
Be good to hear from Grainfather users too.


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## nifty

wide eyed and legless said:


> Also on the switch, standing at the front of the machine the pump switch is behind the on/off switch. as the pump switch is used the most during the brew it is better to have the pump switch as the foremost switch to save accidentally switching off the machine during the brew. When I replaced my switch ($7)
> I put the pump switch to the front, hell of a lot better.
> 
> Going full volume is tricky but there are ways to get more into the malt pipe, as Leyther says the central overflow pipe is to short but can be extended with some silicone hose, I think I used 25 mm ID cut it with a box cutter down the length and it folds in on itself. The problem then is the handle holes where the grains can get through.
> View attachment 113361
> 
> Another piece of silicone through both holes and another litre or two of liquor can go in.
> Funny thing is, any grain that has left the malt pipe has just been pumped up and back into the malt pipe. Grainfather has the same pump but a number of complaints that the pump gets blocked, so really the only issue I have had was the switch.



So a question and observation from an ex 4 vessel brewer who has been using a Guten 50lt system for a while now (done my time on the multi pots, guten is so much easier to use and clean).

When I was using the herms on my old system I would be aware of channelling, eg the liquid taking the path of least resistance through or around the grain. I noticed in the photos that the wort has free flow down the central pipe, would this affect your extraction? I always keep the return flow to a level where it stays under the overflow pipe with the guten.

cheers
nifty


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## Abird89

Nifty - on my robo v2 I also do they same. Set the pump rate so it’s a cm or 2 above the screen but not actively flowing down the pipe


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## karrathabrewer

I'm currently not an owner but am following following the thread closely as I'm having a serious look into purchasing one of these systems, hope this is not considered kijacking but I believe it's a relevant question...... what's the quality of the beer these systems are producing? Do they all brew good beer?


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## patto

nifty said:


> So a question and observation from an ex 4 vessel brewer who has been using a Guten 50lt system for a while now (done my time on the multi pots, guten is so much easier to use and clean).
> 
> When I was using the herms on my old system I would be aware of channelling, eg the liquid taking the path of least resistance through or around the grain. I noticed in the photos that the wort has free flow down the central pipe, would this affect your extraction? I always keep the return flow to a level where it stays under the overflow pipe with the guten.
> 
> cheers
> nifty



I never Liked the wort going down the overflow so got rid of it on mine.


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## fungrel

karrathabrewer said:


> I'm currently not an owner but am following following the thread closely as I'm having a serious look into purchasing one of these systems, hope this is not considered kijacking but I believe it's a relevant question...... what's the quality of the beer these systems are producing? Do they all brew good beer?


Wort making process is the most labour intensive of all the brewing processes, but I'd argue that it has the potential to contribute the least amount flavour-wise. So many other factors in play outside of the first 4hrs in a beer's life. 

There isn't a considerable difference between the a $4k Braumeister and a $450 Robo aside from the usability and durability. Not a $3500 difference in wort quality.


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## wide eyed and legless

nifty said:


> So a question and observation from an ex 4 vessel brewer who has been using a Guten 50lt system for a while now (done my time on the multi pots, guten is so much easier to use and clean).
> 
> When I was using the herms on my old system I would be aware of channelling, eg the liquid taking the path of least resistance through or around the grain. I noticed in the photos that the wort has free flow down the central pipe, would this affect your extraction? I always keep the return flow to a level where it stays under the overflow pipe with the guten.
> 
> cheers
> nifty


I have tried it both ways and my observations were it made no difference, there is quite a head of wort on top of the grain bed, the hot wort would have a low viscosity so flows very easily. I was skeptical about the Grainfather efficiency, that is one of the reasons why I got the Guten because I wanted to see for my self if the efficiency would be similar to the BM and it is. I did a side by side test the BM and the Guten, same grain bill and liquor in both and the pre boil gravity came out exactly the same.
As I said in a post yesterday the BM pump breaks are effectively displacing the grain bed, much like stirring, the Guten grain bed is static, the wort must be draining throughout the bed, the difference may come about pushing the grain bill limits. The beer I made in the two systems together was an English Bitter with an ABV of 5%, so just an average grain bill
Also I paid $530 or $550 for my Guten and still think it was a good buy, the $380 introductory offer is a steal.


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## Wolfman1

I’m toying with the idea of one of these two and they look to be very similar with both being having more similarities than differences. I’d be looking at the smaller volume unit guten
My research seems to indicate and confirmation from owners would be helpful

1 Bazooka screen on guten - addable to RB but seems problematic on the guten anyway or has this been sorted from the early threads?

2 Step timer on guten appears better than RB with feedback to actual time at temp. Not so useful for boils, but great for step mash.

3 Variable power output on guten would make it better as a still boiler.
Ready connection tops for the RB make it easily converted to a still boiler but no variable power output so extra variable power controller is required

4 Hop spider included in the guten, extra for RB

5- 100w extra power output for guten 2500w vs 2400w. Useful for heating strike water only

6- Volume markings appear questionable on guten, but are correct on RB3 - is this sorted now?

7 - Wider diameter on guten means greater surface area so more evaporation losses on boiling. Slightly shorter so a bit easier to lift 

8- It looks like the overflow pipe height is set on guten, but adjustable for smaller grain bills on the RB with the sliding tubes. Is this correct? What happens with smaller batches and the risk of a stuck recirc 

9- dealing with keg king locally for an imported product vs kegland for the product they are developing. This one feels like favouring one person after a messy divorce. Kegland have been pretty active on this site so it feels like a friendlier place to spend money. 

10 - max grain bill sounds like 8kg with each

11 - pump quality?


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## wide eyed and legless

Wolfman1 said:


> I’m toying with the idea of one of these two and they look to be very similar with both being having more similarities than differences. I’d be looking at the smaller volume unit guten
> My research seems to indicate and confirmation from owners would be helpful
> 
> 1 Bazooka screen on guten - addable to RB but seems problematic on the guten anyway or has this been sorted from the early threads?
> 
> 2 Step timer on guten appears better than RB with feedback to actual time at temp. Not so useful for boils, but great for step mash.
> 
> 3 Variable power output on guten would make it better as a still boiler.
> Ready connection tops for the RB make it easily converted to a still boiler but no variable power output so extra variable power controller is required
> 
> 4 Hop spider included in the guten, extra for RB
> 
> 5- 100w extra power output for guten 2500w vs 2400w. Useful for heating strike water only
> 
> 6- Volume markings appear questionable on guten, but are correct on RB3 - is this sorted now?
> 
> 7 - Wider diameter on guten means greater surface area so more evaporation losses on boiling. Slightly shorter so a bit easier to lift
> 
> 8- It looks like the overflow pipe height is set on guten, but adjustable for smaller grain bills on the RB with the sliding tubes. Is this correct? What happens with smaller batches and the risk of a stuck recirc
> 
> 9- dealing with keg king locally for an imported product vs kegland for the product they are developing. This one feels like favouring one person after a messy divorce. Kegland have been pretty active on this site so it feels like a friendlier place to spend money.
> 
> 10 - max grain bill sounds like 8kg with each
> 
> 11 - pump quality?


1. yes
2. 9 step timer, don't need it for the boil. Believe it also has recipe memory
3. Log in whatever power you want, I keep mine on 2000 watt
4. Hop spider included,yes
5. answered by yourself
6. The earlier ones are out because they went through the same roller embossing as the Grainfather.
7. Depends on the intensity of the boil
8. Overflow pipe is adjustable (remember the RB3 is a copy of the Guten)
9. Guten is proven all over Europe under 6 or 7 different monikas. If you are after a RB3, I may be able to get you one unused for $300 buyer is in country Victoria opened it up and was extremely disappointed in the quality, he is dropping it off for me to have a look at when he comes down to pick up a Guten from KegKing. I will keep you posted.
Going by the lack of endorsements for the RB3 should say something.
Missed that one, pump quality same as the Grainfather never a problem.


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## Vazerhino

What about the not using the pump on the guten after the boil? If the pump is better quality than the robobrew, why can’t you use it to pump out the wort fermenter? I’ve never had a problem with the robobrew version 2 during chilling (with immersion chiller) nor into the fermenter. Also I’ve seen one of the guten stablemates (brew devil??) in Europe sells a whirpool arm attachment. So why not the same for Guten?


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## wide eyed and legless

Vazerhino said:


> What about the not using the pump on the guten after the boil? If the pump is better quality than the robobrew, why can’t you use it to pump out the wort fermenter? I’ve never had a problem with the robobrew version 2 during chilling (with immersion chiller) nor into the fermenter. Also I’ve seen one of the guten stablemates (brew devil??) in Europe sells a whirpool arm attachment. So why not the same for Guten?


Same pump on the Grainfather as the Guten, as the Brew Devil is the same machine you probably could, Magical Pancake fitted his own. As for pumping out the wort, why? Most of us who have the Guten has the helix fitted to the tap so defeats the object of getting a clear wort.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

The pump pick up is just a hole in the bottom so hops would go straight in the pump, no filter on that hole. So you'd have to rig something to stop that.


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## wide eyed and legless

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> The pump pick up is just a hole in the bottom so hops would go straight in the pump, no filter on that hole. So you'd have to rig something to stop that.


If the pump inlet had a filter, then any grain that escaped out of the malt pipe would stay in the kettle for the boil, any grain that does go into the kettle gets sucked up by the pump and spat back into the malt pipe.


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## wide eyed and legless

As per post 24, I have a Robobrew G3 to sell, checked it over and yes the screens are bent and it is memory bends which I mentioned in another post. The screens are punched out on a press with the feed coming directly off the coil instead of going through a coil straightener, not such a big issue but will be difficult to get them straight. Yes someone stuffed up big time designing the false bottom the legs are the same height as the top of the tap opening so it will not sit on 3 legs, also there is a 5mm gap between the edge of the kettle and the false bottom. Not as bad as what I was imagining, a trip to Geordi Stainless buy some perforated off cuts and fix it up.
So sorry chaps, it looks like its back to the drawing board and start working on Robobrew G4. 







$300 when I have confirmed it has an electrical appliance approval number. Doesn't seem to be one on the unit.


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## altone

Kind of on topicish.

Has anyone filled the Guten to the max with grain? 

I was present for a brew on a Robobrew 2 today with 8.2Kg of grain.
It was up to the maltpipe holes but it managed to get through the whole thing without a hitch.

I don't know if the vessel/maltpipe are same dimensions or not - just wondering how far someones pushed the Guten 
and if it managed ok.


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## Fleabag

wide eyed and legless said:


> Also on the switch, standing at the front of the machine the pump switch is behind the on/off switch. as the pump switch is used the most during the brew it is better to have the pump switch as the foremost switch to save accidentally switching off the machine during the brew. When I replaced my switch ($7)
> I put the pump switch to the front, hell of a lot better.
> 
> Going full volume is tricky but there are ways to get more into the malt pipe, as Leyther says the central overflow pipe is to short but can be extended with some silicone hose, I think I used 25 mm ID cut it with a box cutter down the length and it folds in on itself. The problem then is the handle holes where the grains can get through.
> View attachment 113361
> 
> Another piece of silicone through both holes and another litre or two of liquor can go in.
> Funny thing is, any grain that has left the malt pipe has just been pumped up and back into the malt pipe. Grainfather has the same pump but a number of complaints that the pump gets blocked, so really the only issue I have had was the switch.



I’ve been having this exact issue on larger grain amounts with Robobrew Gen 3. Thinking next time I’ll take out the central overflow pipe and use a grain bag inside the Robobrew. Basically do it as a BIAB but with recirculation. Should be able to get a few more litres in.


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## wide eyed and legless

Fleabag said:


> I’ve been having this exact issue on larger grain amounts with Robobrew Gen 3. Thinking next time I’ll take out the central overflow pipe and use a grain bag inside the Robobrew. Basically do it as a BIAB but with recirculation. Should be able to get a few more litres in.


I think it might be a bit drastic going for a BIAB, I have a couple of ideas for the G3 and an idea to bring the Robobrew G 2 up to par. Hopefully will be able to post something up during the next week.


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## dago001

I have a RB V3 - I have done 12 brews with it, and for one reason or another, I can't seem to get any consistency with it. Stuck mash - stuck sparge - poor efficiency are the main problems. 
A common solution for stuck mashes is to use rice hulls, but I didn't buy this to use rice hulls in my mash. To get a grain crush that didn't give me a stuck mash/sparge, I would end up with 58% brewhouse efficiency. But even that wasn't consistent. I tried a few different settings on my mill, even tried wet milling. The crush was always good with plenty of husks (not ripped or shredded) but it didn't seem to make any difference. 
I ended up not using the fine mesh, which fixed the stuck mash issue, but the efficiency problem remained. It has really given me the sh!ts, as I had no efficiency problems with my HEX system prior to buying this. I often see people posting about 80% BHE with the RBv3, but I can't seem to get anywhere near that. I'd be happy with 65 - 70. 
I'll keep it as a HLT and boil kettle, but I am going to resurrect my old HEX system. 
It's possibly a good entry level system for all grain brewing, but BIAB is probably a more reliable and easier path for a beginner
For me, it just an expensive saveloy cooker and a backwards step in my brewing.


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## TwoCrows

Wooooow the screens do look bent on yours, mine have a slight slight curve but work well. I don't use the bottom screen( false floor) after mashing.I lift it out, helps at whirlpool. BM doesn't even have one.
Like stated above , use a hop spider or hop bag if you are worried about extra trub.
Yes the malt pipe does have it's limitations like all units, 1.060 wort is not uncommon.


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## wide eyed and legless

dago001 said:


> I have a RB V3 - I have done 12 brews with it, and for one reason or another, I can't seem to get any consistency with it. Stuck mash - stuck sparge - poor efficiency are the main problems.
> A common solution for stuck mashes is to use rice hulls, but I didn't buy this to use rice hulls in my mash. To get a grain crush that didn't give me a stuck mash/sparge, I would end up with 58% brewhouse efficiency. But even that wasn't consistent. I tried a few different settings on my mill, even tried wet milling. The crush was always good with plenty of husks (not ripped or shredded) but it didn't seem to make any difference.
> I ended up not using the fine mesh, which fixed the stuck mash issue, but the efficiency problem remained. It has really given me the sh!ts, as I had no efficiency problems with my HEX system prior to buying this. I often see people posting about 80% BHE with the RBv3, but I can't seem to get anywhere near that. I'd be happy with 65 - 70.
> I'll keep it as a HLT and boil kettle, but I am going to resurrect my old HEX system.
> It's possibly a good entry level system for all grain brewing, but BIAB is probably a more reliable and easier path for a beginner
> For me, it just an expensive saveloy cooker and a backwards step in my brewing.



Don't throw the towel in just yet, try and straighten the screens as best you can, it is difficult because the chrome an nickel keeps the spring in it. As said above get rid of the false bottom, the 2 screens in the bottom, the mesh one is probably the only one that is straight make up an "O" ring using some of the hard silicone tube join together with irrigation hose connectors from Bunnings, make as big as possible so you end up with a nice tight fit. I haven't tried it before, so it could float, wire it to the screen with copper wire this should prevent anything getting past.


As for your efficiency and stuck mash I have found brewing with a higher liquor to grain ratio will eliminate that problem 5 kg of grain make it between 4 & 5 litres per kg leave about 3 litres for a rinse through the grain bed. Make sure the ratio is dialed in to Brewers Friend or whichever program you are using.
The rice hulls you can still use them but wash them prior to going into the mix, rice is one of the most sprayed crops around, you don't know what shit is on them. You will probably not need them with the higher ratio of liquor to grain.
This is the most cost effective way I can think of for fixing the screens problem, the other is to fork out money and make up a screen to replace the bottom one.

The extent of the curvature of the screens depends on whether the screens came from the start of the roll or the end of the roll, I mentioned before, if they had made tooling up to give a couple of small 45 degree bends in the screens, making it like a plate, the stamping process would have work hardened them leaving them rigid and flat.

There is a limit to the amount of grain if anyone wants to put 7 or 8 kg it would make more sense to get a bigger unit or do a reiterated mash.


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## awfulknauful

View attachment 113402
[/QUOTE]

So what is the outcome.


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## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> View attachment 113402



So what is the outcome.[/QUOTE]
Still working on it, but I have found something which could be interesting.


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## Wolfman1

I just spoke with KK and they reckon the price for the 40lt is going to go to about 460 following the intro sale. 
I think I’m going to have to wait for finances to ease a little before investing/splashing.


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## Pundy

Does anyone know if there is a jacket for the Guten? (Available in Aus preferably)


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## jibba02

Pundy said:


> Does anyone know if there is a jacket for the Guten? (Available in Aus preferably)


Kk had one on their brewmonk display model so i would say so.


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## Pundy

Pundy said:


> Does anyone know if there is a jacket for the Guten? (Available in Aus preferably)



I just messaged Keg King and they told me they should have them about end of October.


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## wide eyed and legless

wide eyed and legless said:


> . If you are after a RB3, I may be able to get you one unused for $300 buyer is in country Victoria opened it up and was extremely disappointed in the quality, he is dropping it off for me to have a look at when he comes down to pick up a Guten from KegKing. I will keep you posted.


 Clarkie has informed to to hold off the sale pending........


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## pcmfisher

Pundy said:


> I just messaged Keg King and they told me they should have them about end of October.



Which usually means about mid December...…...


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## wide eyed and legless

Pundy said:


> I just messaged Keg King and they told me they should have them about end of October.


I have just been using one of the wife's old yoga mats but will get one of the custom made ones, maybe a bit of insulation on the return pipe as well.


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## Fergy1987

Just wondering does the Guten have water volume measurements inside it? - I know the Robobrew does (even though not 100% accurate) but just wondering if the Guten also has this.


----------



## jll

wide eyed and legless said:


> Getting back on topic I think we can wind this up as a no show from the Robobrew G3 corner, cheap, shoddily made, poorly designed. I do feel sorry for those who bought the Robobrew G3, bought from a firm who believes that competition is about "Cheap" the cheaper the better, never mind about the quality. I expect that a lot of those purchasers of the RBG3 will be quietly humming that song by The Who, not Pinball Wizard, not Tommy, not My Generation ahh it will come to me later.



I suspect it is likely that people stayed quiet because they didn’t want to enter into an unhelpful shit slinging match as seems to be common here (not laying blame). I have enough going on IRL and don’t need silly internet fights. 

FWIW I have a Robobrew. Bought on price and so far does the job I need. However, I consider wort production one of the easiest, most forgiving and least prone to screwing up processes in my limited and very amateur experience. So the choice of equipment does not fuss me so much. 

Hopefully everyone using whatever setups are able to use them well enough to produce great wort. I don’t give a **** who made it but if they need help then wouldn’t it be nice to find a resource that they could use to get help without all the bullshit that seems to go with it.


----------



## Abird89

Fergy1987 said:


> Just wondering does the Guten have water volume measurements inside it? - I know the Robobrew does (even though not 100% accurate) but just wondering if the Guten also has this.



Yes it does, I haven’t had a chance to measure in water and check it’s accurscy though


----------



## wide eyed and legless

jll said:


> I suspect it is likely that people stayed quiet because they didn’t want to enter into an unhelpful shit slinging match as seems to be common here (not laying blame). I have enough going on IRL and don’t need silly internet fights.
> 
> FWIW I have a Robobrew. Bought on price and so far does the job I need. However, I consider wort production one of the easiest, most forgiving and least prone to screwing up processes in my limited and very amateur experience. So the choice of equipment does not fuss me so much.
> 
> Hopefully everyone using whatever setups are able to use them well enough to produce great wort. I don’t give a **** who made it but if they need help then wouldn’t it be nice to find a resource that they could use to get help without all the bullshit that seems to go with it.


I am generally not fussed either, but I am when it comes to electrical appliances, especially as there is no approval number or certification number, and it is arguably not of merchantable quality.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Fergy1987 said:


> Just wondering does the Guten have water volume measurements inside it? - I know the Robobrew does (even though not 100% accurate) but just wondering if the Guten also has this.


I have a guten. The measurements are way off. I just use a 5litre jug to measure water.


----------



## Fergy1987

wide eyed and legless said:


> I am generally not fussed either, but I am when it comes to electrical appliances, especially as there is no approval number or certification number, and it is arguably not of merchantable quality.


Yeah I am pretty much the same - I have been staring at both the Robobrew and the Guten just because I want an easy no Fuss compact vessel to get into All Grain without having to use gas burners or hoisting grain bags via pulley systems etc......but the longer I wait to pull the trigger on one of them, the more problems that seem to come up and $400+ for something you might get a year out of it without any major issues seems a bit ridiculous. Might just have to throw the credit card at the Guten and see what happens


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Got my 50 litre today,
Nicely packaged.



Flat screens


Immersion chiller


And a really good finished product, most importantly with appropriate electrical certification in place.


----------



## pcmfisher

wide eyed and legless said:


> Got my 50 litre today,
> Nicely packaged.
> View attachment 113436
> 
> Flat screens
> View attachment 113437
> 
> Immersion chiller
> View attachment 113438
> 
> And a really good finished product, most importantly with appropriate electrical certification in place.
> View attachment 113439



What's with the chimney?


----------



## jll

wide eyed and legless said:


> and it is arguably not of merchantable quality.



Kinda proves my point really re why most people don’t want to post on these threads.


----------



## EmptyB

Robobrew label. I'm no expert, but doesn't "Complies with 60335.2.15" tick the electrical certification box?


----------



## EmptyB

Yep according to Fair Trading, the Regulatory Compliance Mark (bottom right of label) is sufficient.
https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/...cal-safety/safety-labels-for-electrical-goods


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

EmptyB, so posting true and backed up evidence, that's not what this forum is about


----------



## Fro-Daddy

3 year warranty! No electrical compliance! Got to admit that was my second try!

I love these threads...


----------



## EmptyB

I won't weigh in on the guten side of the debate since I've never used one. I just wanted to point out another falsehood perpetrated by a clearly extremely biased individual.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

EmptyB said:


> Robobrew label. I'm no expert, but doesn't "Complies with 60335.2.15" tick the electrical certification box? View attachment 113440


Well this is where it gets interesting,anyone supplying electrical goods must be on the National Database, as should the name of the product in question, I would be happy for someone provide me with a link or even the registration number of either the product or company, buggered if I can find either.
And I have a Robobrew G3 for sale which I would not be happy selling it without knowing if it is compliant.
As you can see this is a different label on mine than yours when did you get your EmptyB


----------



## TwoCrows

Linky to the Guten , Aust standards and electrical goods National Database


----------



## EmptyB

I bought my Robo relatively recently, about three weeks ago.

If they were claiming compliance without actually being compliant, they'd be breaking the law, perhaps you should inform the authorities? It beats speculating about them here, all you're doing is suggesting/implying they're selling uncertified gear. Find out for sure.


----------



## lost at sea

EmptyB said:


> I bought my Robo relatively recently, about three weeks ago.
> 
> If they were claiming compliance without actually being compliant, they'd be breaking the law, perhaps you should inform the authorities? It beats speculating about them here, all you're doing is suggesting/implying they're selling uncertified gear. Find out for sure.



he might get an answer he doesnt want to hear if he does that though....


----------



## Madscientist86

Last time i checked the guten was not on this database either.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Actually I did do that, the lass I spoke to (Jessica) at The National Database could not locate any indication of the unit or the company,while I waited on the phone her manager did a search with the same conclusion. That is when I was told under no circumstances could I sell the unit I had.
Guten is relatively new, but when I got mine the paperwork was in place, otherwise I would not have purchased it.
I was encouraged to register a complaint which I have done to enable them to do further searches, I do sincerely hope that no laws have been encroached, not only because I want to sell this Robobrew G3 which has been donated to charity but for the sake of all those who have purchased this unit in good faith. It would be helpful if KL could step in and give their registration number before conjecture takes over


----------



## Mattyh777

Yes the company has to be on the database, but the equipment does not. Only level 2 (medium risk) or level 3 (high risk) electrical equipment needs to be registered.

Who says they are in the database under Keg Land. They are more than likely under another name.

I'm not backing Keg Land in this, I have no affiliation or allegiances. I use both sites, depending on what I want. I just hate seeing people being misled when they have no idea or an axe to grind for some unknown reason.


----------



## Madscientist86

wide eyed and legless said:


> Actually I did do that, the lass I spoke to (Jessica) at The National Database could not locate any indication of the unit or the company,while I waited on the phone her manager did a search with the same conclusion. That is when I was told under no circumstances could I sell the unit I had.
> Guten is relatively new, but when I got mine the paperwork was in place, otherwise I would not have purchased it.
> I was encouraged to register a complaint which I have done to enable them to do further searches, I do sincerely hope that no laws have been encroached, not only because I want to sell this Robobrew G3 which has been donated to charity but for the sake of all those who have purchased this unit in good faith. It would be helpful if KL could step in and give their registration number before conjecture takes over


From what you are saying, your beloved kegking also does not comply with the law on their kegerators (expired in database), immersion heaters (not existant on the database) and the guten (not in the database). Only thing they have listed is a temperature controlled device up to 2400w 10a (these are not the gutens specs) Perhaps you should lodge a complaint against kegking also.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Mattyh777 said:


> Yes the company has to be on the database, but the equipment does not. Only level 2 (medium risk) or level 3 (high risk) electrical equipment needs to be registered.
> 
> Who says they are in the database under Keg Land. They are more than likely under another name.
> 
> I'm not backing Keg Land in this, I have no affiliation or allegiances. I use both sites, depending on what I want. I just hate seeing people being misled when they have no idea or an axe to grind for some unknown reason.


Hard to do when they use the name and ABN to do the search, also the equipment has to be on the database so the authorities can match it with the supplier if anything goes wrong.
You have to look at the big picture and see who is misleading who.


----------



## Mattyh777

wide eyed and legless said:


> Hard to do when they use the name and ABN to do the search, also the equipment has to be on the database so the authorities can match it with the supplier if anything goes wrong.
> You have to look at the big picture and see who is misleading who.


As I stated previously, type 1 equipment doesn't, which is generally household electrical equipment.
source: http://www.erac.gov.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=563


----------



## EmptyB

wide eyed and legless said:


> You have to look at the big picture and see who is misleading who


You are the last member on this site who should be talking about misleading information.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Mattyh777 said:


> As I stated previously, type 1 equipment doesn't, which is generally household electrical equipment.
> source: http://www.erac.gov.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=563


All well and good if it was a type 1 which it isn't.


Madscientist86 said:


> From what you are saying, your beloved kegking also does not comply with the law on their kegerators (expired in database), immersion heaters (not existant on the database) and the guten (not in the database). Only thing they have listed is a temperature controlled device up to 2400w 10a (these are not the gutens specs) Perhaps you should lodge a complaint against kegking also. View attachment 113453


Seeing as the old management team of Keg King prior to the split, are now Keg Land it just goes to show what a shitty legacy they have left the new management of Keg King, no doubt it will be one of the issues they are working through.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

EmptyB said:


> You are the last member on this site who should be talking about misleading information.


Please explain


----------



## EmptyB

wide eyed and legless said:


> Please explain


I don't want to take the thread too far off topic, but there's the photo you found online and posted in the Ultratap vs Intertap thread, pretending to be your own and throwing some crap excuse when you were caught out. Not to mention your extremely obvious bias against anything KegLand, anyone who's been following these threads would understand completely what I mean, I don't need to summarise it all here (and it would take me more time than I care to spend)


----------



## Mattyh777

wide eyed and legless said:


> All well and good if it was a type 1 which it isn't.



And you know this how. Did you do the risk assessment on it, I doubt it. Please just stop making bullshit up.


----------



## pcmfisher

Class 1 - All parts insulated, earth pin via cord.
Class 2 - Double insulated, no earth pin.
Class 3 - Low voltage, like a battery drill.
Class L - Power leads and power boards.


Which type was it again?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Mattyh777 said:


> And you know this how. Did you do the risk assessment on it, I doubt it. Please just stop making bullshit up.


No, I just looked it up, easy, see page 17 on the link and the reference number AS/NZ 60335.2.15
Level 3 rating.
www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/144140/equipment-definitions-and-risk-levels.pdf


----------



## tanked84

Looks the guys using the robobrew are too busy brewing beer.


----------



## Madscientist86

wide eyed and legless said:


> No, I just looked it up, easy, see page 17 on the link and the reference number AS/NZ 60335.2.15
> Level 3 rating.
> www.worksafe.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/144140/equipment-definitions-and-risk-levels.pdf


Comments in brackets

Liquid heating appliance
An electrical appliance that—
(a) is a household type; (yep)

(b) is portable; (yep)

(c) has a capacity not exceeding 10L (last time i checked my robo exceeds this 3 fold)
; and

(d) heats liquid for—
(i) humidifying room air; or (nope)
(ii) use in, or as, a hot beverage; or (nope - i do not drink my wort)
(iii) cooking. (Nope)

Dont think the robobrew is under this definition.


----------



## awfulknauful

Looks like it is according to post 61


----------



## Peregrine

I have had a RB3 for a while now and put half a dozen brews through. No complaints, I've hit my numbers spot on from the first and with the same efficiency as my BIAB (ie pretty high). The screens are all flat  and it's very easy to clean with a Gerni. I take the point about the automated steps being timed from when the heating starts but this isn't a problem for me as I prefer to do my brewing a bit more hands on anyway. I have increased the liquor to grist ratio (leaving about 6 L sparge) for convenience and because I'm more used to that. I have to say I'm a bit wary in principle about having a PCB mounted in a hot steamy environment, but I suppose that would be the same for any other similar unit. We'll see how that goes.


----------



## Vazerhino

WEAL - Does your upgrade involve PID on the Robobrew V2?


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

Hey guys, thought I’d chuck my preliminary thoughts up after just picking up my new 40L guten after selling my Robobrew v3.
Why I upgraded: bigger capacity (+5L), better circuit components and reliability, wider and less tall( better recirculation and boiloff), build quality, introductory price ($380, and sold my RB3 for $300 without the ss coil).

Initial thoughts: 
-for essentially the same thing, the Guten has MUCH better build quality than the RB3. No sharp edges, MIRROR finish, good machining, rolled edges








-I don’t like the pump inlet has no filter though, might be a bitch for whirlpooling (may eventually upgrade the pump since there seems to be room and rought the tap port to the pump instead so I can put a helix on the 1/2 thread). The included bazooka tube is almost useless as a filter.



Also a little kinked and shoddy:




-I can see why the guten switches would be a problem




-Malt pipe centre tube seems more rigid and less likely to fall off mid-brew than the RB3




-no identifiable compliance numbers on the Guten (I couldn’t care less)

-guten panel shows ‘boiling’ instead of having to just put it on an unobtainable number like 110*c you had to do with RB3
View attachment 113542

Also makes audible noises and beeps when pressing buttons 

-calibrated right out of the box (for me anyway)View attachment 113543


-variable powers nice, would be handy for boiling/distilling small volumes (like spirit runs)

-guten has a PCB across port and 





-guten included chiller probably still shit but more compact and sits lower than the RB3 one, and the arms hang next to each other rather than either side of the kettle




-guten recirculation arm is short and sharp with a nice angle so you lose less heat, takes less space, and gets a nice top of grain bed whirlpool/homengenisation going which would help fight channeling and uneven temps throughout mash (assuming all else goes well)

-guten measurements are in 5l increments and by all reports are in accurate as hell




-guten hook brackets seem less secured too - will be very careful with a full wet basket!




-no rusting on malt pipe seams like I had on my RB3



However, bottom screen is almost too small and almost pops through:View attachment 113538
its literally hanging on by less than 1mm 

-would be nice if guten had a notch in the centre of the handle so it stays balanced if you’re using a pulley system, it does have end notches though so won’t come off the handle

-lid on guten fits nicer and has far more practical knobs than the RB3.
BUT! Hard to remove lid when the arm’s attached and removes any and all efficacy of the arms nice angle (goes directly into middle..?)





View attachment 113539

RB was nice in that you could lift the lid and rest it on the square arm to inspect/adjust pipe/stir mash without turning everything off and disconnecting
RB was also better in that you could attach some silicone hose and coil it on top of grain bed, attach a whirlpool arm with a short bit of silicone tube and also was better for recirculating cleaning water and washing down the sides with the hose.
The RB3 pipe was multi-component though and did come loose on a couple of occasions at the joints and bracketsView attachment 113540
View attachment 113541

I dremeled off the little tab that was interfering with the lid: did shit all hahaView attachment 113544



With all that said, would I buy the guten over the RB3? Yes. Even at the non-introductory price.
Would I sell my working RB3 for a Guten? Probably yes again. Worth it if build quality/finish, more features of the controller (some are gimmicky though), an extra 5 litres capacity are important for you.
The RB3 is still an excellent machine though and you will be happy with both, but I chose and like the Guten more even before using it.

Suggested improvements/mods:
-some sort of pump inlet filter or false bottom (had issues with the temp probe reading wrong temps under the false bottom during chilling though even with whirlpooling (reading 45 instead of 17). Will soon install a helix and rerout pump input from tap.
-better chiller.
-better interaction between lid and recirculation arm.


----------



## Fergy1987

Awesome overview and pics - Looking at it my concerns too are the switches not being protected and looking a bit cheap.

Those hook brackets do look like they could snap at any moment as well.

I also don't understand the cable box underneath it....It just looks like you're going to bend the sh1t out of your power cable getting it in there and screw up the wiring in it. Would be better if it was a detachable power cable.

It certainly does look like its a better quality than the RB though so far.

I wonder if they actually will have a GUTEN V2 with some improvements based on feedback. Or just keep running with the same thing. Definitely a pro of the RB that they seem to listen to feedback and put it in the new model.


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

Fergy1987 said:


> Awesome overview and pics - Looking at it my concerns too are the switches not being protected and looking a bit cheap.
> 
> Those hook brackets do look like they could snap at any moment as well.
> 
> I also don't understand the cable box underneath it....It just looks like you're going to bend the sh1t out of your power cable getting it in there and screw up the wiring in it. Would be better if it was a detachable power cable.
> 
> It certainly does look like its a better quality than the RB though so far.
> 
> I wonder if they actually will have a GUTEN V2 with some improvements based on feedback. Or just keep running with the same thing. Definitely a pro of the RB that they seem to listen to feedback and put it in the new model.



If you were packing it away long term it would be handy. In my experience with the RB, it seems it will be most useful when cleaning the vessel keep g the cable out of the way. It is a tight fit but the cable has a rubberised feel to it and is adequately flexible. Other stuff will likely fail before the cable does anyway.
I can’t foresee any shortcomings of this version a little DIY ingenuity couldn’t fix (for now anyway)


----------



## TwoCrows

Thanks nathanvonbeerenstein for your critique on the Guten. 

My view is that number 4 stainless steel ( brushed) is far more forgiving than 2B( polished). It will now be extremely hard to keep the lovely shine. 

The lid on the Guten sucks, as you need to turn off the pump to remove.
The switches ??? 
Pump inlet????
Removal of wort at/ after whirlpool on both units as standard items will allow trub to flow thru to fermenter or cube.

It all comes down to workable volume, a 23 litre batch really needs a 35 litre vessel to allow for boil off and trub.

We need to remember that these units are based/ aimed at the novice brewer. Not to say they don't work. But separate vessel brewing 3or 4 vessel, produces cleaner/ more precise wort.

I have a robo and I brew beer using 5 kg of malt , not using any gravity readings. Just make beer quickly.


----------



## TwoCrows

I looked at the intro price and thought do I go for it ??? not really much more or less than I already have.

The robo chiller got my wort to 19.5 in 28 minutes on Saturday. Not bad..


----------



## Leyther

A couple of notes having had my guten about 18m now, never had an issue with hooks at all, I've never had the lower grain holder fall through either and unless it did your not going to get grain in your wort unless your doing s large volume with the top plate off and some slips through the overflow.

I also place a silicon hose over the recirc output and lay it around the edge of the top of the top plate so the water circulates rather than drops straight onto the plate.

It's biggest issue is undoubtedly the shit bazooka and switches other than that it's a solid reliable machine that's easy to use.

I've never used any of the other single vessel systems so I've nothing to compare it to but I've been happy with my purchase.


----------



## lost at sea

Hooray. 

an honest and non biased write up of the unit. cheers. that wasnt so hard now was it people?


----------



## fungrel

lost at sea said:


> Hooray.
> 
> an honest and non biased write up of the unit. cheers. that wasnt so hard now was it people?


The blind squirrel will eventually find the nut.


----------



## munta

Foolish man gives wife grand piano, wise man gives wife upright organ


----------



## enikoy

For Perth people, Brewmart will be doing a Robobrew 3 vs Guten brew day in October. They are also seliing the Guten now for $380. Local purchase at that price is very tempting.

https://www.facebook.com/events/474360336306488/?ti=as

http://www.brewmart.com.au/brewmart-shop/catalogue/?detail&ItemID=5974&SZIDX=0&CCODE=184050&QOH=3


----------



## Abird89

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> If you were packing it away long term it would be handy. In my experience with the RB, it seems it will be most useful when cleaning the vessel keep g the cable out of the way. It is a tight fit but the cable has a rubberised feel to it and is adequately flexible. Other stuff will likely fail before the cable does anyway.
> I can’t foresee any shortcomings of this version a little DIY ingenuity couldn’t fix (for now anyway)



Definitely useful when I’ve been cleaning it. Don’t have to worry about the cable dragging around. Just have to remember to pull it out prior to filling it up


----------



## wide eyed and legless

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Suggested improvements/mods:
> -some sort of pump inlet filter or false bottom (had issues with the temp probe reading wrong temps under the false bottom during chilling though even with whirlpooling (reading 45 instead of 17). Will soon install a helix and rerout pump input from tap.
> -better chiller.
> -better interaction between lid and recirculation arm.



There is an inlet filter and also a whirlpool attachment as extras, though the inlet filter could cause more headaches if it got blocked and leaving no way for any grain to get back onto the grain bed.


----------



## goatchop41

TwoCrows said:


> But separate vessel brewing 3or 4 vessel, produces cleaner/ more precise wort.



Bollocks. Absolute bollocks.
Wort will come out exactly the same from either. How 'clean' or precise the wort is from either a Guten/RB/GF/Brau vs multi vessel brewing comes down to how well the brewer knows their system, understands their volumes/efficiencies/etc.
Simply saying that that multi vessel brewing is better than single vessel (with absolutely no reasoning or evidence to back it up) is just pure bullshit


----------



## altone

I decided on the Guten after seeing both the Robobrew3 and it in person - the build of the Guten looked better to me and as I think I've said before
the programming options seemed to make better sense.

The only thing I dislike about the Guten is that pissy little bazooka - that's going to be replaced very quickly.

My first mods - even before actually using it for a while will be:
Replace bazooka with a helix.
Replace the SS pump return pipe with a "sight tube" eg. silicon tube with measured fluid marks on it so I can see my volumes when the pump is off.
oops edit: And of course make a jacket for it.

The chiller? if I do use one, I'll use my homemade copper one as it fits and has way more surface area than the one supplied with the unit.

I'm not sold on the inlet filter idea - could cause more problems than it solves.

As for the recirc arm/lid issue mentioned before - I don't personally see it as a problem, but if it is - this might fix it 
https://www.kegland.com.au/robobrew-gen3-recirculation-pipe-assembly-camlock-upgrade.html

If the switches cause a problem, I'm sure they can be replaced with more robust ones fairly easily.

The whirlpool upgrade... is that the one that requires drilling a hole and rerouting the pump - or is there an off the shelf mod?
If it involves butchering the unit I'll wait and see if I need it.


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

Could you please link me said inlet filter please WEAL?

Had a brew today and had a MUCH better experience than with the RB.
Ran the pump wide open throughout the mash and it drained every bit of it. I did use 250g rice hulls though.
Also just attached the included silicone elbow to get it rotating above the grain bed and have just pooped around a length of tube to whirlpool during my whirlpool steeping.
250gm’s of loose pellet hops for a 23L batch so far and the pump hasn’t even flinched.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I will post up a pic of the filter tomorrow, in answer to Altone the whirlpool is an off the shelf product, I expect if the demand is there it will be made available.


----------



## altone

wide eyed and legless said:


> I will post up a pic of the filter tomorrow, in answer to Altone the whirlpool is an off the shelf product, I expect if the demand is there it will be made available.



Great! Not sure I'll need it anyway, but do you have a link by any chance?


----------



## Moggs

We have been testing the 50L Guten at the shop now for a week alongside a RB 3 and GF. Good unit but am very concerned by the malt pipe handle. The handle seems too small and has slipped off a few times which I reckon is dangerous. It does not seem to seat well enough. Anyone else had this issue? Also found we needed to insulate to get a rolling boil. Other than that very happy with it after fitting s Helix.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

altone said:


> Great! Not sure I'll need it anyway, but do you have a link by any chance?


Send an email to Sandy she may have a photo I would be interested to see if there is any alterations to be done.
The pump filter.


I don't mind the return pipe for the Guten but if any mods were going to be made this would be preferable.


----------



## bjay

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Could you please link me said inlet filter please WEAL?
> 
> Had a brew today and had a MUCH better experience than with the RB.
> Ran the pump wide open throughout the mash and it drained every bit of it. I did use 250g rice hulls though.
> Also just attached the included silicone elbow to get it rotating above the grain bed and have just pooped around a length of tube to whirlpool during my whirlpool steeping.
> 250gm’s of loose pellet hops for a 23L batch so far and the pump hasn’t even flinched.
> View attachment 113550
> View attachment 113551


Nathan
I have only done one or two brews on my beast so no expert , Anyways if you run the pump to hard and the wort doesnt drain back quick enough to cover the element it will scorch dont ask me how i know this , Also i had a funny taste in my beer a few years ago from useing poxy green hose pipe so be carefull with that , I was very impressed how easy to use this thing is compared to my 3 v system 
however the proof will be when i taste the beer 

B


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

bjay said:


> Nathan
> I have only done one or two brews on my beast so no expert , Anyways if you run the pump to hard and the wort doesnt drain back quick enough to cover the element it will scorch dont ask me how i know this , Also i had a funny taste in my beer a few years ago from useing poxy green hose pipe so be carefull with that , I was very impressed how easy to use this thing is compared to my 3 v system
> however the proof will be when i taste the beer
> 
> B



Appreciate the concern my friend but rest easy, I was running the pump full bore because the grain bed was more than happy draining every bit of it, the fluid level in my overflow pipe never dropped below the mash level, hence why I’m so stoked!
As for the green garden hose, that touches the immersion chiller and the immersion chiller only, all my brewing water comes from the freshest kitchen taps my house has to offer


----------



## bjay

No probs , I am wrapped with the guten so easy to use and clean 
Planning another brew for tommorow morning maybe a big imp stout 
Nice and settled for chrissy day

B


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Another tip is before filling with brewing liquor put some water in take it up to 60 C add some percarbonate or perborate and recirculate for 20 minutes to dislodge any nasties that could be lurking in the pump and recirculating pipe.


----------



## Milk-lizard84

So I'm tossing up between the 2 systems. They seem pretty on par to me performance wise.
I like the slightly extra volume of the guten so it's winning a little.

Just wondering the does the robobrews ability to adjust the malt pipe centre overflow pipe make that much difference?

This seems to be the only thing the guten system doesn't do as well. Does it make much of difference mashing?


----------



## TwoCrows

I have not allowed any wort to flow down the centre pipe, all the flow is thru the grain bill by throttling the pump flow. I am going to do away with the tube and fit a stainless screw into the bottom screen.


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

TwoCrows said:


> I have not allowed any wort to flow down the centre pipe, all the flow is thru the grain bill by throttling the pump flow. I am going to do away with the tube and fit a stainless screw into the bottom screen.



People seem to be dismissing the overflow pipe and forgetting what it is intended for: a security measure. It ensures that if your mash happens to get ‘stuck’ and the wort no longer drains through the grain, that the wort being pumped into the top of the mash has somewhere to go and your element won’t be run dry. I’ve had mash’s decide to suddenly stick half way through a mash, as have others, and it’s nice to know that if it ever happens again I won’t come back to a mess or worse. By removing it you gain little and lose a lot imho!

In answer to the original question and having used both, I personally wouldn’t say it’s been an issue for me. The guten’s is technically adjustable to 3 lengths which is sufficient. The adjustability comes at a price with the RB3, it’s overflow pipe is smaller, flimsier and insecure. Others have reported it coming off while stirring the mash and I certainly came close too ! It wobbles around and was pretty hard to adjust once full anyway.


----------



## goatchop41

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> The guten’s is technically adjustable to 3 lengths which is sufficient.



I think that a lot of people don't get this. They see all of the pieces and then just screw 'em all together. You do have to have a relatively thick mash if you want to use just the long pipe on an average batch size, but it is perfect for low gravity batches with a normal mash thickness


----------



## altone

Yes I think the 3 lengths for the centre pipe are sufficient and the fact that the Guten times steps from when it reaches temp
rather from the end of the last step (which the Robo2 did and I think the 3 does too)
made it the choice for me


----------



## wide eyed and legless

For me an improvement would be 4 more little tabs on the malt pipe an 25 to 40 millimeter from the top, just allows more brewing liquor into the mash.


----------



## Vazerhino

Bought the Robobrew Gen 3 - someone had to. Wouldn’t turn on. Kegland came to the party and sent me a replacement board — no questions asked. The quality is better than the Gen 2. However, the pump return arm is at an odd angle - quality control issue, but no impact on function. 
Brewed a 5.5 kg SMaSH. 100 g whirllpool hops straight in the kettle. Did it all manual, other than setting the strike temp to be ready first thing in the morning - very cool. Went off without issue. The temperature reading is more accurate - such that i overshot mash temp, as i was compensating for the 3 degrees the Gen 2 was off. Pumped throughout the mash and with the immersion chiller as i did with Gen 2 - no probs on either machine. No blockages. So all in all, very happy with the first brew on the new machine. Like the simplicity of the false bottom. It will be interseting to see its longevity.


----------



## Milhouse

First of all to be honest I haven't read through all 6 pages off this thread and I cant comment on the Guten as I haven't seen one let alone used one. I just wanted to comment on my experience with a recently (3 weeks ish) purchased Robobrew V3 and comment on some of the reported issues other people have had.

My graduations are a little out but much less so than others have said, mine is about 500ml out at 30l.

Others have reported their temp probe is out by up to 5 degrees. Mine is spot on all through the temp range, checked against two reliable thermometers as well as boils at 100 degrees at sea level. Keep in mind temp can vary a lot between the top and bottom of the water level and can develop hot spots near the element. Best solution is to recirculate the water. 

My 2c


----------



## goatchop41

Milhouse said:


> Keep in mind temp can vary a lot between the top and bottom of the water level and can develop hot spots near the element. Best solution is to recirculate the water



This is why it is incorrect when people say not to let anything go down the overflow pipe during the mash. If you have it set at the correct height, it shouldn't be too much higher than the grain bed, so there will still be plenty of water over the element by the time that you get flow through the overflow pipe (and therefore the element won't burn out due to being dry).
Letting flow through the overflow pipe will help keep a much more consistent temp throughout the whole mash. There's a reason why it's recommended on the Grainfather (which, by the way, is the only system of the three existing all-in-ones that actually has a proper, extensive user guide and tutorial videos...so I would happily listen to them)


----------



## ABG

Another R3 user here and like the vast majority of others, I'm really happy with mine so far. I've run about a dozen batches through mine so far and have hit my numbers every time apart from a recent NEIPA batch where I used too much sparge water (mixed up my numbers with the previous week's brew) - you can't blame the R3 for user stupidity.

My dislikes:

the grain screen was wonky and needed to be straightened, but that was no biggie to fix
programming a step mash is pretty much guesswork becasue the timer runs straight away, rather than from when the unit hits your target temperature
the buttons for changing time/temperature feel cheap and making large changes is a PITA
My likes:

the R3 provides a no fuss introduction to AG brewing
value for money is outstanding
everything you need is included, apart from a paddle to stir the grain
locally developed product - big tick for me - and KegLand clearly take the time to listen to user feedback and then put that back into future product development.
easy to take the lid off and sit it on the arm to stir the grain bed throughout the mash
markings are pretty accurate (30L is a measured 29.6L on mine)
can program it to have my water sitting at mash in temps as soon as I walk in to my garage on brew day (a big time saver)
So far, I'm really happy with my R3 and simply can't believe the bashing that it's been getting here in this thread. Admittedly most of that hate is coming from one person who clearly has a bug up his arse against KegLand. It would be so nice to see him build a bridge and get over it, because I've read some genuinely helpful posts from him both on this thread and others.

I've never seen, let alone brewed with a Guten, so can't make any comments. A mate has a Grainfather and while his is much nicer overall (as you would expect it to be for the price), both he and I agree the R3 kills it in terms of value for money. He's happy as Larry with his GF and wouldn't change it and I feel the same way about my R3. I'm sure Guten owners would feel the same way about their kits too. Let's face it, both the R3 and Guten are inferior knock offs of the GF. Why get into a pissing contest about which is better? Sure, they both have their shortcomings, but for the price they're just awesome value for money and a provide a great intro into AG brewing. Great times for home brewers.


----------



## Redreuben

Hi Guys, I'm currently looking at getting a single vessel brewery in the new year, at this point probably the Guten but I may build my own who knows.
Just wanted to comment on this overflow business, to get your mashes to the right temperature you need to be assured that your getting good flow through the grain bed right? And not have most of it go down the overflow, just enough to keep the under space full.
Consider this, old school mash tuns had rotating knives that cut the grain bed periodically to keep the flow up when sparging, when I used my old sparger I would cut the grain bed with the mash paddle to do the same thing, I reckon it would pay to do the same in these single vessel breweries, just to make sure the flow through the grain bed is doing its thing.


----------



## altone

ABG said:


> Another R3 user here and like the vast majority of others, I'm really happy with mine so far. I've run about a dozen batches through mine so far and have hit my numbers every time apart from a recent NEIPA batch where I used too much sparge water (mixed up my numbers with the previous week's brew) - you can't blame the R3 for user stupidity.
> 
> My dislikes:
> 
> the grain screen was wonky and needed to be straightened, but that was no biggie to fix
> programming a step mash is pretty much guesswork becasue the timer runs straight away, rather than from when the unit hits your target temperature
> the buttons for changing time/temperature feel cheap and making large changes is a PITA




The programming was one of the main reasons I picked the Guten over the Robobrew. The other was the $380 introductory price 



> So far, I'm really happy with my R3 and simply can't believe the bashing that it's been getting here in this thread. Admittedly most of that hate is coming from one person who clearly has a bug up his arse against KegLand. It would be so nice to see him build a bridge and get over it, because I've read some genuinely helpful posts from him both on this thread and others.
> 
> I've never seen, let alone brewed with a Guten, so can't make any comments. A mate has a Grainfather and while his is much nicer overall (as you would expect it to be for the price), both he and I agree the R3 kills it in terms of value for money. He's happy as Larry with his GF and wouldn't change it and I feel the same way about my R3. I'm sure Guten owners would feel the same way about their kits too. Let's face it, both the R3 and Guten are inferior knock offs of the GF. Why get into a pissing contest about which is better? Sure, they both have their shortcomings, but for the price they're just awesome value for money and a provide a great intro into AG brewing. Great times for home brewers.



Yes the Kegland Keg King split up has left a lot of bad blood. I am an occasional customer of both, so try not to play favourites.

A good post from you @ABG . I've brewed with the V3 the Guten and a Braumeister (I'll have a go with the GF too if I can find someone who'll let me use theirs  )
Once you get used to setting them up they all make beer. I really like the Braumeister best but the price is just way too much for me.

The Guten and Robobrew both have some weaknesses but they do provide a cost effective turnkey 1V system.
It would be nice if the politics were left out and this was a discussion about actual issues or idiosyncrasies of the 2 units.

As for your issue not hitting your numbers with the NEIPA, I'm working on a universal idiot detector but it seems to go off every time I start brewing


----------



## HaveFun

do you need a 10amp or 15amp power outlet for the Guten 50l system ? 

I am brewing with a grainfather but I need a 50l system. I am happy with the grainfather I love the system and the controller plus app. 

cheers
stefan


----------



## wide eyed and legless

HaveFun said:


> do you need a 10amp or 15amp power outlet for the Guten 50l system ?
> 
> I am brewing with a grainfather but I need a 50l system. I am happy with the grainfather I love the system and the controller plus app.
> 
> cheers
> stefan


Yes and no, from what I have read one can achieve a good boil dialing in less than 2500 watt I would get in touch with KK and see if they can confirm this. I still have yet to try mine but will report back, insulation jackets are due in any time so that will help.


----------



## altone

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes and no, from what I have read one can achieve a good boil dialing in less than 2500 watt I would get in touch with KK and see if they can confirm this. I still have yet to try mine but will report back, insulation jackets are due in any time so that will help.



Yes I'm always concerned about that. I mean to my understanding a 10 amp circuit doesn't limit the draw to 10 amps or 2200 watts etc.
It just means you are overloading the circuit if you try to draw more than that.
Which leads to lots of heat being generated in the wiring and probably your circuit breakers tripping.

I wonder if there's a way that KK could program in a 10 amp option or add some kind of limiter for those who wanted it - so even if you forgot to dial down the wattage it could limit the max to the actual maximum a 10 amp circuit should be run at.

I only have the small one so not an issue for me and if I upgrade I'll have a 15 amp socket in the new shed - once I build it


----------



## HaveFun

can i fit the grainfather Bluetooth controller to the guten?

Cheers
Stefan


----------



## wide eyed and legless

HaveFun said:


> can i fit the grainfather Bluetooth controller to the guten?
> 
> Cheers
> Stefan


I wouldn't think it would be easy, I was going to suggest to Sidney Harbour Bridge to fit the Guten control circuit into the Robobrew G2 which died but it would mean cutting out the rectangle to get it to fit.


----------



## devoutharpist

HaveFun said:


> do you need a 10amp or 15amp power outlet for the Guten 50l system ?
> 
> I am brewing with a grainfather but I need a 50l system. I am happy with the grainfather I love the system and the controller plus app.
> 
> cheers
> stefan



YMMV, but i managed to get mine up to 2600W on a 10amp outlet for the boil without tripping the circuit. I have an unused 15amp on the board though, need to get that hooked back up for full power/not worrying about tripping everything.


----------



## Lionman

altone said:


> It just means you are overloading the circuit if you try to draw more than that.
> Which leads to lots of heat being generated in the wiring and probably your circuit breakers tripping



On a standard house GPO circuit, the wiring can take a lot more than 10A.

The function of the breaker is to protect the wiring. Most GPO circuits will have a 16A or 20A breaker because there is more than one outlet on each circuit. You will usually find you can run two 10A loads on circuit, at least for a limited time, and not have any issues. If you plug a third load in though then you may trip the breaker (quicker).

Do you ever boil your kettle for a coffee and toast your bread for breakfast at the same time? Do the ironing and run the dryer at the same time? That would probably be close to 20A draw from one double 10A outlet or at least one circuit. Given, this will likely be only for a few mins, not an hour like a boil of a brew but its also potentially a higher amp draw than a Guten.

The Gutun 50L plug does fit in a 10A outlet. This is probably illegal? Not sure. The wiring itself will be fine, and its protected by a breaker. 10A and 15A sockets are actually identical apart from the size for the earth pin slot. The cabling used for 10A and 15A circuits is also the same. The risk is pretty much zero.

If it was a legitimate concern then I doubt Keg King would be importing them with 10A compatible plugs. I have a feeling if there was an issue though, they may find themselves in legal hot water (or is it hot wort?)... Their explanation about getting the unit modified to only run at 2400w max if you intend to use it on a 10A socket is just a half arsed attempted to cover their butts. Legally it should really be set to only run at 2400w max out of the box and you should need to get it modified to run at higher power by an electrician (like a small internal wiring change and a new plug). I have a feeling they are riding the area between what's legal and what's safe and it's a bit of a gamble on their part.

Assess the risk for yourself. If you're not comfortable, get an electrician to set you up with an appropriate socket or just set the unit to run at 2400W. I've run mine fine at full power for 4 batches now and it has been fine.


----------



## jackmarshall77

Robobrew owner and I have to say it works great as I am sure the Guten does. The advantage of these things is that once you get your settings figured they work great. The programmed controller is fantastic. I know my heat up times now and have them included in the program as additional steps. It runs like clockwork. I am more interested in minimum batch, more variety, more often. Have brewed down to 12 litres. Chuck my hops straight in and only blocked the pump twice, quick back flush from the kitchen tap and all sorted.


----------



## Truman42

Interesting read guys. I’m still trying to decide if I should buy a guten or an RB3 and have to admit this thread hasn’t really helped me decide.. still seems to be a 50/50 split with both units. 

5 months on from the last post how are the guten and RB3 owners feeling about their units?


----------



## Milhouse

Truman42 said:


> Interesting read guys. I’m still trying to decide if I should buy a guten or an RB3 and have to admit this thread hasn’t really helped me decide.. still seems to be a 50/50 split with both units.
> 
> 5 months on from the last post how are the guten and RB3 owners feeling about their units?



I think it's going to to be very unlikely you will get an objective answer to that question. Especially from someone who has done several brews on both and has no boas.

My advice would be to get whichever you think looks like the better unit. If the unit you choose let's you down in a big way you're within your rights to return it. Australian consumer law is weighted in the favour of the consumer.


----------



## chesl73

Yes, unbiased views on this topic are hard to come by! For what it's worth, I bought the Guten when it first came out, main attraction at the time was the introductory price which was a bargain. I've done quite a few brews on it since and its been great, coming from stove top BIAB which was a bit messy and painful it's been great having a 1V system and my Guten has worked a treat. Trying to think of any negatives but I don't have any. The bottom screen does feel a little flimsy but it never let's through any grain so all good.


----------



## Truman42

Well im going from a 3v herms back to one of these. I’ve tried BIAB again but want something a bit more automated. I think I’ll get a guten as the posts on here about them are positive.


----------



## ABG

Both the R3 and the Guten will serve you well - they're both capable units at a bargain basement price. Neither is as good as the Grainfather, but you would expect that for the price difference.
I've recently upgraded to the Brewzilla 65L and it's a substantially better unit than my old R3. In fact, I reckon it's more robust than the Grainfather and has the bonus of being able to do double batches. That's a big statement given it costs far less than the GF. The only advantage the GF has over the BZ is the Connect. As I prefer to brew manually, that's of no concern to me.
If you're in Sydney and would like to see a Brewzilla side by side with a Robobrew 3, drop me a PM. I might even be able to get a mate to bring his Grainfather over.
I reckon the Brewzilla is the bang for buck champion at the moment. I'm sure the team at Guten will respond with something that ups the ante, but right now the Brewzilla holds the crown. It's not the cheapest, but what you get for the money is awesome. If money is no object, the king of the hill is the new Brewtools unit. Nothing else comes close.


----------



## Truman42

ABG said:


> Both the R3 and the Guten will serve you well - they're both capable units at a bargain basement price. Neither is as good as the Grainfather, but you would expect that for the price difference.
> I've recently upgraded to the Brewzilla 65L and it's a substantially better unit than my old R3. In fact, I reckon it's more robust than the Grainfather and has the bonus of being able to do double batches. That's a big statement given it costs far less than the GF. The only advantage the GF has over the BZ is the Connect. As I prefer to brew manually, that's of no concern to me.
> If you're in Sydney and would like to see a Brewzilla side by side with a Robobrew 3, drop me a PM. I might even be able to get a mate to bring his Grainfather over.
> I reckon the Brewzilla is the bang for buck champion at the moment. I'm sure the team at Guten will respond with something that ups the ante, but right now the Brewzilla holds the crown. It's not the cheapest, but what you get for the money is awesome. If money is no object, the king of the hill is the new Brewtools unit. Nothing else comes close.


I’m in Melbourne but thanks for the offer. So I thought brewzilla was the same thing as the Robobrew? I’m only interested in the smaller unit so does brewzilla do a 35 litre version?


----------



## ABG

Brewzilla is a bigger version of the R3, but it's substantially beefed up. It's worth the extra coin if you can stretch your budget that far.


----------



## Truman42

So has the guten had a new version in the last 6 months or is the current model the same one that’s been around for a bit now?


----------



## Truman42

ABG said:


> Brewzilla is a bigger version of the R3, but it's substantially beefed up. It's worth the extra coin if you can stretch your budget that far.


I don’t really want something that will brew batches that size. I’m currently only brewing 15 litre batches most of the time.


----------



## beer gut

ABG said:


> Brewzilla is a bigger version of the R3, but it's substantially beefed up. It's worth the extra coin if you can stretch your budget that far.



Kegland has rebranded the Robobrew to Brewzilla and is now selling 35 and 65 litre units with Brewzilla badging.


----------



## brewermp

Truman42 said:


> Interesting read guys. I’m still trying to decide if I should buy a guten or an RB3 and have to admit this thread hasn’t really helped me decide.. still seems to be a 50/50 split with both units.
> 
> 5 months on from the last post how are the guten and RB3 owners feeling about their units?



True that it is hard to pick. 

What would tip you to one side or the other? Anything you would want to know?

I was worried when I purchased the RB3 as there was a lot of misinformation on these forums but I’m super happy with it now.


----------



## Truman42

brewermp said:


> True that it is hard to pick.
> 
> What would tip you to one side or the other? Anything you would want to know?
> 
> I was worried when I purchased the RB3 as there was a lot of misinformation on these forums but I’m super happy with it now.



Well Ive managed to score a second hand guten for a good price so looks like I’m going to be a guten owner.


----------



## Cian Doyle

I was in the situation as the OP, I read the Guten thread from start to finish, I took no notice of the advertising spin from those who were given free Robobrew's. I checked the social media from users of both and it seems the more problems were being created by the Robobrew, on Reddit one guy had a fire start when he left his Robobrew on overnight so he could dough in first thing in the morning. It isn't the appearance or the build of these appliances, as it has been pointed out on this forum before it is the circuit board which should come more into consideration. 
But on the other hand, if the OP is happy with making 15 litre batches then I would choose neither.

I have been in Melbourne since Wednesday for a conference, I called in at Keg King to pick up some gear and Trong Nguyen (an inventor) was giving a demonstration on brewing on one of his 15 litre units. I was so impressed I stayed and watched the whole thing. We were drinking beer on Saturday which the yeast had been pitched the Monday prior! The unit is all good quality stainless steel, the mash, boil and ferment are all done in the same 15 litre vessel ( a custom made pressure cooker) they are $290 US for the 15 litre complete with a Spundit, spunding valve, floating dip tubes, thermowell, thermometer, and gas and liquid posts.


----------



## Mya

I only have the Guten and never used the Robobrew before, so not really a comparison as such.

We've done around 10 brews in the Guten so far and it has been great. Electronic temperature control trumps gas any day IMO as long as you are willing to wait the extra heat up time.

Had no real issues with it, as is always the case with Chinese stuff, the interface is always lacking. The control faceplate is tricky to use and confusing, but it's probably the same for the Robobrew.

Construction seems relatively robust to me although I've not seen a GF in person to compare it to, I'm not worried about many of the components except that the lip where the false screen sits always worries me (it is just needlessly small and thin, I don't really understand why, it would cost nothing to make that lip bigger). People get worried about how thin the false screen itself is but steel is a lot tougher than people give it credit for and that mesh is fine IMO, sure other manufacturers might use thicker mesh but it doesn't bother me.

The only other things that worry me is the circuit board (the fabrication of the Guten circuit board is a lot better than the Robobrew purportedly), how long that will last, potential water ingress into the control box (seal failure), and the longevity of the pump. These things will only become apparent after a couple years I would imagine.


----------



## Truman42

Mya said:


> I only have the Guten and never used the Robobrew before, so not really a comparison as such.
> 
> We've done around 10 brews in the Guten so far and it has been great. Electronic temperature control trumps gas any day IMO as long as you are willing to wait the extra heat up time.
> 
> Had no real issues with it, as is always the case with Chinese stuff, the interface is always lacking. The control faceplate is tricky to use and confusing, but it's probably the same for the Robobrew.
> 
> Construction seems relatively robust to me although I've not seen a GF in person to compare it to, I'm not worried about many of the components except that the lip where the false screen sits always worries me (it is just needlessly small and thin, I don't really understand why, it would cost nothing to make that lip bigger). People get worried about how thin the false screen itself is but steel is a lot tougher than people give it credit for and that mesh is fine IMO, sure other manufacturers might use thicker mesh but it doesn't bother me.
> 
> The only other things that worry me is the circuit board (the fabrication of the Guten circuit board is a lot better than the Robobrew purportedly), how long that will last, potential water ingress into the control box (seal failure), and the longevity of the pump. These things will only become apparent after a couple years I would imagine.



Thanks for the detailed review on the guten Mya. Im picking one up tonight from a guy who is selling one. Its 6 months old and hes only done 4 brews on it so should be ok. 
Certainly looks ok in the photos.


----------



## Truman42

Picked up my Guten last night and looking forward to trying it out over easter. I see some of you are using the helix coil instead of the bazooka. But if we are using the hop spider is the helix coil really necessary?


----------



## Mya

We started off using the normal bazooka, this blocked within a few minutes of draining even after doing a whirlpool and using a hop spider. I ended up having to keep scraping the bazooka filter just to get flow going which inevitably disturbed the mesh and pushed some particles in. Wasn't fun, bought the helix coil straight away and after doing a whirlpool the top 10mm or so of the helix cool is uncovered and allows rapid draining from the guten.

Theres still loads of protein and other crap from the grain that causes quite a decent trub in the kettle even using a hop spider that settles out during cooling.

In short yes I'd thoroughly recommend the helix coil.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Truman42 said:


> Picked up my Guten last night and looking forward to trying it out over easter. I see some of you are using the helix coil instead of the bazooka. But if we are using the hop spider is the helix coil really necessary?


Lucky getting a Guten at that price, I have had mine for over 2 years now, so the older model, and done plenty of brews, I no chill so for me the helix works great, there are a few on this forum who state that the helix is fine for no chill but if chilled then it has issues.


----------



## Mya

Must be down to the grain bill or amount of hops added in the kettle, since those will increase kettle trub. We've not had a problem yet chilling and using the helix.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Mya said:


> Must be down to the grain bill or amount of hops added in the kettle, since those will increase kettle trub. We've not had a problem yet chilling and using the helix.


It isn't the hops that is the problem it is the break material, maybe it is the coagulating from the whirlfloc but it definitely clogs the helix. I have made a bazooka reducing from 20mm to 12 mm then reducing that again to 8 mm. Whirlpool and get a clear run of wort into the fermenter, what is left in the kettle I pour into a jug and let that settle out before adding to the fermenter boiling first to be safe.


----------



## Truman42

malt and barley blues said:


> Lucky getting a Guten at that price, I have had mine for over 2 years now, so the older model, and done plenty of brews, I no chill so for me the helix works great, there are a few on this forum who state that the helix is fine for no chill but if chilled then it has issues.


How do you know what price I got it for?? lol


----------



## Truman42

Ok looks like I need to get a helix coil then. cheers


----------



## KegLand-com-au

beer gut said:


> Kegland has rebranded the Robobrew to Brewzilla and is now selling 35 and 65 litre units with Brewzilla badging.



Yes that's right. The BrewZilla units are beefed up in several ways. So all the new BrewZilla units have been upgraded. The circuit boards, stainless thickness, watt density of the elements is better and some other subtle differences to make the unit more usable.

We still strongly believe that the false bottom in the boiler in the BrewZilla is the best way to avoid blockages when large amounts of hops are used. You can find other solutions such as hop socks and spiders but the false bottom allows you the ability get better hop extraction while still greatly reducing the chance of clogging your pump.


----------



## Joshed1

Cian Doyle said:


> I have been in Melbourne since Wednesday for a conference, I called in at Keg King to pick up some gear and Trong Nguyen (an inventor) was giving a demonstration on brewing on one of his 15 litre units. I was so impressed I stayed and watched the whole thing. We were drinking beer on Saturday which the yeast had been pitched the Monday prior! The unit is all good quality stainless steel, the mash, boil and ferment are all done in the same 15 litre vessel ( a custom made pressure cooker) they are $290 US for the 15 litre complete with a Spundit, spunding valve, floating dip tubes, thermowell, thermometer, and gas and liquid posts.



I just signed up to AHB as I'm super interested in this all in one system. I couldn't message you directly for some reason so just wanted to ask for some more info if possible. Was he selling these units in store yet or do you know where we could pick up one? Also were there any noticeable negatives to using this system that were mentioned? I'm thinking of potential blockages in the dispensing side of things if the trub/yeast/hops stays in the pot when dispensing, cheers


----------



## TwoCrows

Google keg king, and call em.


----------



## Cian Doyle

KegLand-com-au said:


> Yes that's right. The BrewZilla units are beefed up in several ways. So all the new BrewZilla units have been upgraded. The circuit boards, stainless thickness, watt density of the elements is better and some other subtle differences to make the unit more usable.
> 
> We still strongly believe that the false bottom in the boiler in the BrewZilla is the best way to avoid blockages when large amounts of hops are used. You can find other solutions such as hop socks and spiders but the false bottom allows you the ability get better hop extraction while still greatly reducing the chance of clogging your pump.


Seems to be getting some bad publicity on Facebook last night, why are you getting circuit boards and build so wrong?


----------



## Cian Doyle

Joshed1 said:


> I just signed up to AHB as I'm super interested in this all in one system. I couldn't message you directly for some reason so just wanted to ask for some more info if possible. Was he selling these units in store yet or do you know where we could pick up one? Also were there any noticeable negatives to using this system that were mentioned? I'm thinking of potential blockages in the dispensing side of things if the trub/yeast/hops stays in the pot when dispensing, cheers


I am not sure Joshed I would imagine that Keg King would have organised the visit for a reason, either to market the units or the spunding valve. The floating pick up was an ingenious set up, so no the trub and hops stayed on the bottom the beer was not super clear but given a couple more days would have cleared up. Anyone short of space like an apartment or flat they would be ideal.


----------



## ABG

Interesting round up on David Heath's Youtube channel of the best brewing systems on the market as of July 2019. Congrats to @Kegland for getting the gong for best mid price and best entry level system with the Brewzilla 65 and R3 respectively. I'm absolutely certain there will be howls of outrage and protest from the usual suspects. I reckon it's worth keeping in mind that David is a) a Master Brewer, so looks at it from a brewer's perspective and b) is half a world away geographically and has no vested interest in the whole KK v KL carry on that dominates this forum.

I would suggest that anyone who is in the market for an all in one brewing system watch the video and make an informed decision.


----------



## Reg Holt

Ha ha, anyone who can sit through a David Heath video without falling asleep deserves to get the Brewzilla. Watching any of the payola promotions doesn't help anyone make an informed decision, better off reading the threads of actual users is the best way of making an informed decision.


----------



## ABG

Reg Holt said:


> Ha ha, anyone who can sit through a David Heath video without falling asleep deserves to get the Brewzilla. Watching any of the payola promotions doesn't help anyone make an informed decision, better off reading the threads of actual users is the best way of making an informed decision.





ABG said:


> I'm absolutely certain there will be howls of outrage and protest from the usual suspects.


Didn't take long... Anyone suggesting David Heath is taking payment for his reviews clearly doesn't know him. But of course in your world anyone who has the temerity to say that the Brewzilla is better than the Guten is clearly on the KL payroll. 

You are right on one front however, David's voice can be a little, erm soporific. An easy fix is to go into Youtube settings and change the playback speed to 1.5 times. Bingo, he's sounding a little more interesting. Even at normal speed, his videos are worth watching - they're among the best produced and most informative brewing vids on the chewbs.


----------



## Reg Holt

ABG said:


> Didn't take long... Anyone suggesting David Heath is taking payment for his reviews clearly doesn't know him. But of course in your world anyone who has the temerity to say that the Brewzilla is better than the Guten is clearly on the KL payroll.
> 
> You are right on one front however, David's voice can be a little, erm soporific. An easy fix is to go into Youtube settings and change the playback speed to 1.5 times. Bingo, he's sounding a little more interesting. Even at normal speed, his videos are worth watching - they're among the best produced and most informative brewing vids on the chewbs.


Yes I have 2 Guten and I am biased, of course he is paid, he is never going to admit it it, the best review I read was about the Robobrew 3. An American, he stated that he was given it free of charge to give a review after 7 brews his circuit board shit it self his final sentence was don't buy a Robobrew. Just take into account what the punters say and you can't go to far wrong. Listening to bozo's like Gash Slug and others who are given free merchandise is no accreditation of a product. 
Though I must say on this forum there are only 69 replies on the Brewzilla thread and 1,535 on the Guten thread so Brewzilla is a bit behind the 8 ball.


----------



## lost at sea

Reg Holt said:


> Yes I have 2 Guten and I am biased,



stopped reading after this....


----------



## Reg Holt

lost at sea said:


> stopped reading after this....


At least I admit I am biased. ABG didn't disclose he has a Brewzilla.


----------



## donald_trub

I kept reading unfortunately...
- what do you mean David Heath is getting paid by Kegland? You're smoking some serious crack if you believe that.
- the Brewzillas have a 3 year warrantly so I can't say I'm too concerned about a failure in one of the older models.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I havent seen any howls of outrage from Guten owners just the usual rose coloured glasses perspective from the KL supporters, they must give them away free with every purchase. You obviously haven't been in business, someone who makes videos for a living is not going to promote something buckshee. As an ex retailer wholesaler the whole object of the thousands of dollars spent on advertising is to capture the gullible. And it is supprisingly easy.


----------



## krz

Havent watched the video yet, I really love Heath's videos, and if he's biased I wont be able to tell.
But, I have a Guten 50L. I shop at both KL and KK, and Im not biased.
My Guten is 10 months old, and I have done 13 brews, and nothing is a miss.

That is has 2 years warranty is some peace of mind. 
I know, the heating element, or the pump will shit itself at some point in time, but all is good, and Im happy with my purchase.


----------



## Reg Holt

I think K


krz said:


> That is has 2 years warranty is some peace of mind.
> I know, the heating element, or the pump will shit itself at some point in time, but all is good, and Im happy with my purchase.


The Guten has a 3 year warranty now, point is they both do the same job, since the upgrade of the circuit board and screen of the Brewzilla there is hardly a difference. Still seems to be a lot of insecurity in the Brewzilla camp. Probably from the lack of posts and users in the Brewzilla thread.


----------



## TwoCrows

I am happy to state that I own and use a V3 Robo.

I do single 22 ltr batches and filter the wort after mashing via transfer to my Keggle to boil and cube.I like clean wort with low trub.
I also use the keggle to heat spage water.
I then heat water and repeat in the V3 Robo and in 7 hours have two batches done.

I could most probably do this with the Guten but it was not around when I got the V3 Robo . I have done over 90 batches this way, used to boil in the Robo 20 or so batches. 
But the above method I believe takes the load of the unit, and so far so good ( less than $4.00 a mash )

I also have a 4 vessel with herms , I like both systems. 

To each their own


----------



## ABG

Reg Holt said:


> At least I admit I am biased. ABG didn't disclose he has a Brewzilla.


I do own a Brewzilla. I've also brewed on a Guten and on a Grainfather. The B65 is better designed, better to use as a result and is a more robustly constructed brewing system than both. My opinion comes from experience, not from watching videos, thanks WEAL. Unsurprisingly, David Heath who is a brewer, not a spruiker of products agrees. But then we're both on the KL payroll, right?


----------



## Reg Holt

I never said you were on anyone's payroll, David Heath makes a living making videos, you don't, I agree with what WEAL says, the video makers do not go to the trouble of making a video for the profiteering of another party. As I have stated twice before READ THE POSTS OF THE PUNTERS not what a professional video maker says.


----------



## ABG

Reg Holt said:


> I never said you were on anyone's payroll, David Heath makes a living making videos, you don't, I agree with what WEAL says, the video makers do not go to the trouble of making a video for the profiteering of another party. As I have stated twice before READ THE POSTS OF THE PUNTERS not what a professional video maker says.


Saying it louder makes it more right, right? 'Cos sure as hell, if I'm buying a big ticket, or sophisticated product then I'm definitely going to base my purchasing decision on the opinions of some punter who has a sample size of one to base their opinion on, not someone who has objectively tested every product on the market.


----------



## Reg Holt

ABG said:


> Saying it louder makes it more right, right?


Whatever you want to believe. If you believe the Brewzilla is superior to the Guten don't let any other ones posts destroy your dream.


----------



## The Mack

My brother owns three Robobrews (V1 & 2x V3's) the V1 uses an external pump. 
We've never had a problem brewing on any of them, always hit the gravity numbers (unless more adjuncts are used), clean up is simple as and for the price they are unreal.

NB-I don't know about the Guten (never brewed or seen one) but I'm sure they're unreal also. Can only really comment on what I've experienced and based on that would have no problems recommending them.


----------



## Kenf

Reg Holt said:


> Ha ha, anyone who can sit through a David Heath video without falling asleep deserves to get the Brewzilla. Watching any of the payola promotions doesn't help anyone make an informed decision, better off reading the threads of actual users is the best way of making an informed decision.


Wow mate! Have you ever watched the video about those particular accusations? If you have then what you said above is close to slanderous!
I have spoken to David on many occasions and find him very knowledgeable and honest & if I was to choose who to believe him or anyone on this forum then I would pick David!
Now I know he is a great supporter of and has helped Grainfather- if you actually watched video two you would see that currently he is not a great fan. Based on the current app issues (safety related)
Now he did say why certain units didn’t make the cut, remember Guten is Karlstein etc etc in Europe. So there must be a reason! I almost pout the Guten because the SmartPid video shows one fitted to its European cousin. Now since the price point is the same, my guess is it has something to do with the heating. Afterall he did mention the insulation fitted to the Brewzilla.
And to disclose I have a modified Grainfather and a modified Digiboil and both have parts supplied by KegKing, Kegland and Cheekypeak so I have no allegiance!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I seem to remember it took him a while before admitting he worked for Ibrew, another pointer, how come he got a Fermzilla to review before it was released.


----------



## Kenf

I think it was providing a bit of technical advice WEAL.
And when I looked at the Guten compared to the BrewZilla, I agreed with David both assembled from off the shelf parts, in fact you could say from the same factory!
Like I said the BrewZilla has all that insulation in the base, it also has that false bottom (the one we fitted to a Grainfather!) I have a Guten pump filter ( it’s tiny)
Truth is I went with neither! I didn’t like the pump in the base idea and after the Grainfather experience I wanted something that every part could be replace on, without having to spend a fortune!
I guess you could ask him yourself


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Kenf said:


> I think it was providing a bit of technical advice WEAL.
> And when I looked at the Guten compared to the BrewZilla, I agreed with David both assembled from off the shelf parts, in fact you could say from the same factory!
> Like I said the BrewZilla has all that insulation in the base, it also has that false bottom (the one we fitted to a Grainfather!) I have a Guten pump filter ( it’s tiny)
> Truth is I went with neither! I didn’t like the pump in the base idea and after the Grainfather experience I wanted something that every part could be replace on, without having to spend a fortune!
> I guess you could ask him yourself


Robobrew is almost a copy of the Guten and your right off the shelf parts, but when I checked the Guten circuit board and the Robobrew circuit board there was a world of difference.






Guten at the top Robobrew bottom





Robobrew on the left Guten on the right.
They did upgrade the circuit board and called it Robobrew 3.1, even so it is still not a patch on the circuit board on the Guten. Fleabag posted photos of the new circuit board, so if David Heath was going to do a fair dinkum review of the two units he should have had a look at the circuit boards.

I have no doubt he will be giving a glowing review of the Fermzilla, that is the whole purpose of him being sent one. $$$$$$


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Robobrew is almost a copy of the Guten and your right off the shelf parts, but when I checked the Guten circuit board and the Robobrew circuit board there was a world of difference.
> 
> View attachment 116130
> 
> Guten at the top Robobrew bottom
> 
> View attachment 116131
> 
> Robobrew on the left Guten on the right.
> They did upgrade the circuit board and called it Robobrew 3.1, even so it is still not a patch on the circuit board on the Guten. Fleabag posted photos of the new circuit board, so if David Heath was going to do a fair dinkum review of the two units he should have had a look at the circuit boards.
> 
> I have no doubt he will be giving a glowing review of the Fermzilla, that is the whole purpose of him being sent one. $$$$$$



Does what they look like change how they operate?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> Does what they look like change how they operate?


Certainly did, that is why they sent out new screens and circuit boards. You may not be able to see it in the picture of the back of the circuit board but the copper strips should be covered in solder to stop them oxidising there were patches which had not been covered.


----------



## rude

Normally the copper and solder is covered with resin to stop it oxidising


----------



## Kenf

WEAL, I appreciate that you have a view of the Kegland product vs Guten. You may have noticed I don’t accuse anyone being in the pocket of one or the other. I do know that David had some strong views re the Grainfather and it’s latest software update. I still believe that his reviews are honest and if he says he is not being paid - I believe him!
Yes the Brewzilla has a thinner metal to the Grainfather. I have read the reports of broken spot welds on Brewzilla - I actually have broken the spot welds on the brackets of my Grainfather.
Like I said I seriously looked at the Guten as my SmartPid experiment but at the time it was only as a new boiler for my Grainfather! Now of course it morphed a bit! I like Cheekypeak’s add on NANO system for the Grainfather/Guten/Brewzilla and since there maybe some new bits on their way as well. I think in retrospect I should have bought that system instead! And in the future I might!
I guess what I’m trying to say is KL had the parts, Kegking doesn’t have lots of Guten parts on line ( I have to get everything on line) and what I have I’m happy with! Mind you my backup RIMS came from Kegking and my heaters from Cheekypeak (which I may have already said) so I’m not biased!
Anyway I guess I’ve expressed my views and I find it sad that some on this forum play the man not the ball. I am glad however that you have put some info up to support why you think one is better than the other.
Cheers


----------



## Kenf

This my home built mash together of parts and my heavily modified Grainfather - just in case you didn’t see the photos on FB


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Kenf I really think the Brewzilla v Guten has been done to death, the circuit board on the Brewzilla has been upgraded, which circuit board is going to stand the test of time remains to be seen.
As for David Heath if he came out and declared he was being paid for his reviews, which I believe he is, as I mentioned he has a Fermzilla to review before they are even out. My way of thinking is surely no one can be that naive, but of course people are. They are the best punters, they keep the money moving. I always think of them as chickens and declaring what a great guy that Colonel Sanders is.


----------



## krz

wide eyed and legless said:


> Robobrew is almost a copy of the Guten and your right off the shelf parts, but when I checked the Guten circuit board and the Robobrew circuit board there was a world of difference.
> I have no doubt he will be giving a glowing review of the Fermzilla, that is the whole purpose of him being sent one. $$$$$$



The Guten has a fuse, the Robobrew doesnt.


----------



## Kenf

Well WEAL, I agree with your first statement - I think both systems have good and bad points and both systems have points I don’t like. That’s why I built my own! But I have to admit the new bottom plate for the Guten is impressive! And I like the Whirlpool attachment ideas! 
I disagree with your second, but next time we chat I will ask! I don’t like being described as naive, but like I said name calling and playing the man seems to be part of the form on this website. For your information not everything he says I agree with and we have had some good discussions on that! Also despite his recent overview - not review of the Fermzilla, I won’t be purchasing one because it seems to takes up a lot of space, seems fragile and I like stainless! 
That’s my industrial background coming out! Same as seperate pumps, valves everywhere etc.
Anyway I guess you are correct! As long as everyone’s mates in the home brew industry are turning a profit and the factories in China are turning out the gear it doesn’t matter really does it? 
Who cares if someone from Norway doesn’t think a product from China is the best in category?
Afterall it’s only one mans opinion isn’t it?
Cheers


----------



## james.fennell

I brought a Guten 12 months ago. First 10 brews went fine then the unit started cutting out, powering down for 15-30 seconds at a time. This started happening when the unit was trying to heat beyond a 50c protein rest. Freaking annoying!!! I reported it to Keg King and they just said they would need to test it with water.. Sadly it only does it when mashing, so nothing got resolved. I managed to pull off a fe more brews as it was intermittant, then the cutting out bacame permient. Sadly there badly designed and what is worse, Keg King are completely useless and wouldnt help. The unit remains broken, so saving up for a Braumeister 50l plus :-D. I will NEVER buy anything from Keg King ever again, simply becaue they are agrogent when it comes to helping and can't be bothered.

In contrast, i had a small problem with a kegarator fridge from Keg Land and soon as I rang them with the problem, Keg Land dispatched out a spare part and I got the unit going. Keg Land ROCKS for support and also their products. Keg King just doesn't even get close. Regards, James


----------



## CyriusBrew

I am looking at whether to buy a Guten, stick with my old 3 vessel brewery, or go with a robobrew....

Now that this thread has run for a while, I am wondering whether the Guten owners are still happy with their purchase?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

CyriusBrew said:


> I am looking at whether to buy a Guten, stick with my old 3 vessel brewery, or go with a robobrew....
> 
> Now that this thread has run for a while, I am wondering whether the Guten owners are still happy with their purchase?


3 years I have had mine without a glitch until recently when I had a water leak from the tap overnight the water had got into the electrics. Should have aborted the brew day and dried it out, went ahead and switching to mash out mode the unit popped, and burn't out the circuit board. Got the updated circuit board and screen and is now working again. A good tip is to run a bead of silicone around the groove no matter if it be a Robobrew, BrewZilla or Guten. Saves any leaking water from the tap getting inside.


----------



## JDB

wide eyed and legless said:


> 3 years I have had mine without a glitch until recently when I had a water leak from the tap overnight the water had got into the electrics. Should have aborted the brew day and dried it out, went ahead and switching to mash out mode the unit popped, and burn't out the circuit board. Got the updated circuit board and screen and is now working again. A good tip is to run a bead of silicone around the groove no matter if it be a Robobrew, BrewZilla or Guten. Saves any leaking water from the tap getting inside.



Mine malfunctioned after 15 batches, suspect it was something wrong with the PCB as the screen was dead and buttons non-responsive. It was quickly repaired by KK and is back in action. I would buy it again, the 50 l is a good size, I can get two cubes at a stretch.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

My Robo V2 is flawless. The one issue I had with it cutting out I believe was caused by a crappy extension cord.
My Guten 70L is just as good, and once the overflow pipe issue is resolved I won't have any complaints.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

The BrewZilla units have lower watt density. This means you can brew lighter colours beers if you want to and you get less stuff stick to the elements after the boil. The screens in the BrewZilla are also a bit thicker. Several other parts of the brewery are quite similar. I would say the older Robobrew units were less reliable but the new BrewZilla electronics are bulletproof. I would like to think we provide quite a high level of service at KegLand but would totally understand if you find our review biased.


----------



## Grok

james.fennell said:


> I brought a Guten 12 months ago. First 10 brews went fine then the unit started cutting out, powering down for 15-30 seconds at a time. This started happening when the unit was trying to heat beyond a 50c protein rest. Freaking annoying!!! I reported it to Keg King and they just said they would need to test it with water.. Sadly it only does it when mashing, so nothing got resolved. I managed to pull off a few more brews as it was intermittent, then the cutting out became permanent.



It sounds very much like the Thermal Cut Out button positioned near the heating elements is faulty and needs replacing.This is there to cut power in case it boils dry. You can do it your self if your handy with a screwdriver. Take the old one off and check the specs on it (on the face of it, under the thermal paste), then go to your electronics store and get one the same specs, don't forget some thermal transfer paste on installation, should fix the problem I reckon. The pics are from my Guten (before it was called Guten!) unit, I'd say yours will be the same, but check. Make sure its 16amp or more capacity and 240v.


----------



## Keg King

The Guten users will tell you themselves here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/300497734015828/
There's a great group of brewers there who support each other and make a lot of great beers. We don't actually run the group but we and our staff are in there to answer questions and share when needed. 
The Screens in the Guten were improved last year and are now rock solid. We've also improved the lids with clamps for those that might want to distill one both the 50 and 70L systems.
Keg King Guten Breweries also offer built in power control, which is really great for mashing and distilling.


----------



## Grok

james.fennell said:


> I brought a Guten 12 months ago. First 10 brews went fine then the unit started cutting out, powering down for 15-30 seconds at a time. This started happening when the unit was trying to heat beyond a 50c protein rest. Freaking annoying!!! I reported it to Keg King and they just said they would need to test it with water.. Sadly it only does it when mashing, so nothing got resolved. I managed to pull off a few more brews as it was intermittent, then the cutting out became permanent.



It sounds very much like the Thermal Cut Out button positioned near the heating elements is faulty and needs replacing.This is there to cut power in case it boils dry. You can do it your self if your handy with a screwdriver. Take the old one off and check the specs on it (on the face of it, under the thermal paste), then go to your electronics store and get one the same specs, don't forget some thermal transfer paste on installation, should fix the problem I reckon. The pics are from my Guten (before it was called Guten!) unit, I'd say yours will be the same, but check. Make sure its 16amp or more capacity and 250v.


----------



## Grok

wide eyed and legless said:


> 3 years I have had mine without a glitch until recently when I had a water leak from the tap overnight the water had got into the electrics. Should have aborted the brew day and dried it out, went ahead and switching to mash out mode the unit popped, and burn't out the circuit board. Got the updated circuit board and screen and is now working again. A good tip is to run a bead of silicone around the groove no matter if it be a Robobrew, BrewZilla or Guten. Saves any leaking water from the tap getting inside.



Mine just "popped" yesterday, just on boil finish (luckily!) , where did you get the new updated parts WEAL?


----------



## goatchop41

Grok said:


> Mine just "popped" yesterday, just on boil finish (luckily!) , where did you get the new updated parts WEAL?



I'm going to assume that you'd get those parts from keg king themselves, seeing as though they are the Aus distributor/seller of the units


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You can get them from the manufacturer or from KK, the wiring is different so you will need the wiring diagram. How come yours just blew?


----------



## Grok

I don't know why it blew, I was just standing near it and "POP", no fluid ingress involved. Upon investigation, the only issues I can see are a blown board terminal and a glass fuse (that I removed), and a somewhat cooked and damaged power wire with only half the strands attached that is screwed onto one of the elements tabs(see pics). Looks like it has become brittle through overheating, perhaps it built up resistance over time, not sure, you might want to check your own connections after some use with this type of setup. I might try a new wire soldered straight to the PCB (where the blackened area is) and a new fuse repair and see what happens.
Might also consider adapting the Brewzilla control panel/pcb, anyone done this?
Can't find any reference to parts on KK website, what $ did it cost you Weal?


----------



## chesl73

I bought a 40L Guten when Keg King first released them which I can't remember exactly but must be a good 2 years now. 
I buy equipment from both Keg places so have no axe to grind either way. The Guten has been rock solid for me and been a great purchase, nothing at all to complain about, it's been very reliable.
I was doing basic BIAB on the stove at the time in small batches but couldn't justify the price of the Grainfather, so when the Guten came out at a great price I snapped it up and this was quickly followed by ditching the bottles and moving into kegs so all in all it was the best homebrew decision I've made. 
On a side note, given the good options we now have with Guten and Robobrew, I would have thought that sales of the Grainfather must have dropped off dramatically from before the time when they were the only vaguely reasonably priced option, what did you think?


----------



## CyriusBrew

chesl73 said:


> I......
> I was doing basic BIAB on the stove at the time in small batches but couldn't justify the price of the Grainfather, so when the Guten came out at a great price I snapped it up and this was quickly followed by ditching the bottles and moving into kegs so all in all it was the best homebrew decision I've made.
> On a side note, given the good options we now have with Guten and Robobrew, I would have thought that sales of the Grainfather must have dropped off dramatically from before the time when they were the only vaguely reasonably priced option, what did you think?



Right now, it is looking to me that I cannot make a wrong decision between Guten & Robobrew. I am finding issues with both, but they do not seem insurmountable. In kind, for their price point they are a better decision than grainfather for me.

I have been a three vessel brewer for years. I have money invested in pumps, hermes, etc...However, I just want to make my brew day easier and a bit shorter. It is looking to me like either of these options will fit the bill.


----------



## Ballaratguy

Grok said:


> I don't know why it blew, I was just standing near it and "POP", no fluid ingress involved. Upon investigation, the only issues I can see are a blown board terminal and a glass fuse (that I removed), and a somewhat cooked and damaged power wire with only half the strands attached that is screwed onto one of the elements tabs(see pics). Looks like it has become brittle through overheating, perhaps it built up resistance over time, not sure, you might want to check your own connections after some use with this type of setup. I might try a new wire soldered straight to the PCB (where the blackened area is) and a new fuse repair and see what happens.
> Might also consider adapting the Brewzilla control panel/pcb, anyone done this?
> Can't find any reference to parts on KK website, what $ did it cost you Weal?


I’ve seen a post on the ace etc Facebook page where a guy hooked up a grainfather controller onto his brewery
Looks to be a good easy modification. Would also be able to use it as a wired remote (saves bending down to access the controls)


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Grok said:


> I don't know why it blew, I was just standing near it and "POP", no fluid ingress involved. Upon investigation, the only issues I can see are a blown board terminal and a glass fuse (that I removed), and a somewhat cooked and damaged power wire with only half the strands attached that is screwed onto one of the elements tabs(see pics). Looks like it has become brittle through overheating, perhaps it built up resistance over time, not sure, you might want to check your own connections after some use with this type of setup. I might try a new wire soldered straight to the PCB (where the blackened area is) and a new fuse repair and see what happens.
> Might also consider adapting the Brewzilla control panel/pcb, anyone done this?
> Can't find any reference to parts on KK website, what $ did it cost you Weal?




It would definitely be possible to upgrade the electronics in this Guten to BrewZilla boards. The new BrewZilla 3.1.1 have all components rated to 121C or higher. The are significantly over-engineered in every way possible which is why the boards are extremely rare to get issues. To do the modification you would need to replace both the screen board and relay board:
https://www.kegland.com.au/brewzilla-generation-3-0-to-3-1-1-upgrade-kit.html

We have heard of people using these boards to upgrade the gutens but we do not have a specific instruction sheet for this as we have not done this ourselves.

The wiring on the BrewZilla boards is a bit different and things like the thermal cut out go through the relay board and we specifically do this so instead of your brewery just ceasing to function if the thermal cut out is triggered the screen will display the actual error message. This was one of the improvements done some time ago when upgrading to 3.1 model.

We do also use a slightly higher thermal cut out switch of 175C rather than 150C. So you can upgrade this separately if you felt that this was the issue:
https://www.kegland.com.au/replacem...t-switch-for-robobrew-brewzilla-digiboil.html

I would say the most common issue with thermal cut out switch going off is caused when solids are covering up the element. So if you get burned sugars/hops stuck on the element you will notice this happens much more. As mentioned above the BrewZilla has lower watt density so it's much less likely to get stuck stuck to the elements in the first place. However if you have a guten please also make sure to keep the elements clean and scrub them with stainless wool to ensure they remain clean. The other thing that can cause this is just large amounts of sugar or hops added to the boil at once. This can sit on the bottom and act like a blanket over the element and allow them to get significantly hotter than 100C. If you are using this false bottom screen that comes included with all the BrewZilla units then this will generally not happen:
https://www.kegland.com.au/robobrew-35l-gen3-false-bottom.html

So another option is if you have a guten you might be able to make your own screen and this might stop this problem of having the thermal cut out getting triggered.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Keg King said:


> The Guten users will tell you themselves here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/300497734015828/
> There's a great group of brewers there who support each other and make a lot of great beers. We don't actually run the group but we and our staff are in there to answer questions and share when needed.
> The Screens in the Guten were improved last year and are now rock solid. We've also improved the lids with clamps for those that might want to distill one both the 50 and 70L systems.
> Keg King Guten Breweries also offer built in power control, which is really great for mashing and distilling.



The power controller devices are simply not that reliable especially when being used in hot ambient temperature (ie right next to an element). so although this might seem like a good idea but in reality it's just not a good idea. As mentioned in the previous post the components on the BrewZilla boards are designed to tolerate 120C. The power control will likely burn out well before this.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grok said:


> I don't know why it blew, I was just standing near it and "POP", no fluid ingress involved. Upon investigation, the only issues I can see are a blown board terminal and a glass fuse (that I removed), and a somewhat cooked and damaged power wire with only half the strands attached that is screwed onto one of the elements tabs(see pics). Looks like it has become brittle through overheating, perhaps it built up resistance over time, not sure, you might want to check your own connections after some use with this type of setup. I might try a new wire soldered straight to the PCB (where the blackened area is) and a new fuse repair and see what happens.
> Might also consider adapting the Brewzilla control panel/pcb, anyone done this?
> Can't find any reference to parts on KK website, what $ did it cost you Weal?


KK sell them I got mine from the factory, I really wanted the original without all the bells and whistles but they don't have them any more.
Yours looks different. 








You can see the Guten one the other is the Robobrew before they copied the Guten


----------



## Keg King

KegLand-com-au said:


> The power controller devices are simply not that reliable especially when being used in hot ambient temperature (ie right next to an element). so although this might seem like a good idea but in reality it's just not a good idea. As mentioned in the previous post the components on the BrewZilla boards are designed to tolerate 120C. The power control will likely burn out well before this.



Guten systems have been in use now for years with the power control built in. They're absolutely fine even in the 'hot ambient temperature' because they were designed to function with that feature in place. But the money you're saving by not having a power control feature and instead just milking the nebulous concept of low watt density has got to be great for you but miserable for the control you're offering your brewers.


----------



## Grok

Meoww ---FSTTT --spit --scratch-- eoww!


----------



## Grok

Update! I have rewired a few things and bypassed what used to be the AC Live in tab for the pcb and installed a new fuse (which is only for the transformer used to get 12v DC for circuitry), boofed up some of the power feeds to the relays with more solder (a cheap-arse way of doing it BTW, still, it works!). Also reorganised the Neutral wiring off the elements with a copper buss bar, rather than all the wires looping around, and created a common Neutral wire stack(blue wires), less cluttered now and moves unnecessary wiring away from the hot elements, should of been designed better IMO. I might look at a small extraction fan in there as well, old CPU or graphics card fans are good for that sort of thing.
But the best part is IT WORKS!!!!!!






Also, added a good mod pic for the pump, just a brass Y piece with right angle swivel outlets, just garden stuff, and silicon hose, very useful to have a switchable manifold and flexi-hose there.


Summary: I would suggest that everyone should check to see if the wires to the elements are intact and terminals are clean and free of resistance crud, especially if you've had it for a while. It looked like to me that because there were 2 wires jammed into what should only be 1 wire terminal crimp body, that half the wires were not properly attached and therefor not quite enough current capacity, hence the high resistance heat at that spot and ultimate failure. That is why I put in the copper bridge and got rid of the double looped wires everywhere.

Weal, I found a link for the older PCB if your interested, presume its still current.
https://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/59-spares


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Keg King said:


> Guten systems have been in use now for years with the power control built in. They're absolutely fine even in the 'hot ambient temperature' because they were designed to function with that feature in place. But the money you're saving by not having a power control feature and instead just milking the nebulous concept of low watt density has got to be great for you but miserable for the control you're offering your brewers.




It sounds a bit more like you guys are resentful that you are not making as many sales as us. The reality is many more BrewZilla units are sold around the world for a reason. How about we test your boards and our boards in a public video. We will do load testing and heat tolerance testing. What do you say?


----------



## Reg Holt

I have two Guten, one of the advantages of it is the ease of dialing in the temperatures without faffing about with which elements are to be used on the Brewzilla.
It isn't about how many sales, its about the number of satisfied customers, not a good record starting at Robobrew 1, 2, 3, 3.1, 3.1.1, looks like the Fermzilla is going along a similar route.


----------



## goatchop41

Can we please not turn this thread in to another shit slinging match between the businesses and also their shadow/worker accounts?
We want to hear from the users and consumers about their experiences. In my mind it's ok for the makers/retailers to highlight what they feel are the advantages/features of their units, but for christ's sake can we please not let this thread devolve in to a pit of negativity and shit slinging? It's just like politics, when everybody devolves in to putting down their competitors instead of actually highlighting what their own positives are and what they can give us that others can't


----------



## Grmblz

Reg Holt said:


> I have two Guten, one of the advantages of it is the ease of dialing in the temperatures without faffing about with which elements are to be used on the Brewzilla.
> It isn't about how many sales, its about the number of satisfied customers, not a good record starting at Robobrew 1, 2, 3, 3.1, 3.1.1, looks like the Fermzilla is going along a similar route.


It's called product development, sometimes it works well "Windows 10" and sometimes it doesn't "Windows 8" 
Are you suggesting KK do nothing about the Guten overflow pipe failures that appear to be a design flaw, other than sending out replacements that fail on first use?
The thread title is Robobrew V3 v Guten, no mention of fermenters, do try to stay on topic Reggie-boy or start a thread called lets knock KL so all you fan bois/ghosts can have a home to go to.
I've had my Robo V3 for a couple of years and it has performed as stated on the box, and done about 40 brews. 
I upgraded the switches to V3.1.1 (black rubber boots not clear silicon) and after 12 months the boots had perished, KL happily replaced them but the new ones were exactly the same as the ones that perished and I can only assume that they will perish also. The problem is they are a right royal pita to replace, they are currently showing out of stock so I can only hope that the new stock will have a better quality boot, other than that I'm very happy with it, and planning on buying all the other upgrade bits to make it a 3.1.1.


----------



## CyriusBrew

Reg Holt said:


> I have two Guten, one of the advantages of it is the ease of dialing in the temperatures without faffing about with which elements are to be used on the Brewzilla.
> It isn't about how many sales, its about the number of satisfied customers, not a good record starting at Robobrew 1, 2, 3, 3.1, 3.1.1, looks like the Fermzilla is going along a similar route.


Have you ever brewed with a three vessel system? Do you find using the Guten saves time and energy on your brew day? I only ask in that my main goal is making brew day easier now. However, if it does not make it significantly easier, then I will have a hard time justifying the expense to myself and my partner.
Thank you for your feedback!


----------



## Keg King

KegLand-com-au said:


> It sounds a bit more like you guys are resentful that you are not making as many sales as us. The reality is many more BrewZilla units are sold around the world for a reason. How about we test your boards and our boards in a public video. We will do load testing and heat tolerance testing. What do you say?



We are not going out of our way to satisfy your thirst for some sort of public stoush and your very unsubtle form of baiting. If our customers would like information then we will be happy to provide it rather than getting you, a competitor/someone to resurrect a long dormant thread in an immature attempt to provoke and down play our product. Our time is better spent taking care of our valued customers and working positively to give them the best brewing experiences rather than to waste time on this thinly veiled attempt to use us to try and promote your products. 

Who really cares what your perception of reality is? We don’t. 

Probability is that the Guten factory, which produces all the variants for Klarstein, Brewster Beacon, Hop Ace, Brewmonk and many more has shipped probably 10 times than yours ever will.

Far be it from us to advise you, but maybe, just maybe, go service your clients and don’t worry so much about what we are doing.


----------



## Outback

goatchop41 said:


> Can we please not turn this thread in to another shit slinging match between the businesses and also their shadow/worker accounts?
> We want to hear from the users and consumers about their experiences. In my mind it's ok for the makers/retailers to highlight what they feel are the advantages/features of their units, but for christ's sake can we please not let this thread devolve in to a pit of negativity and shit slinging? It's just like politics, when everybody devolves in to putting down their competitors instead of actually highlighting what their own positives are and what they can give us that others can't



I think that pony just bolted


----------



## goatchop41

CyriusBrew said:


> Have you ever brewed with a three vessel system? Do you find using the Guten saves time and energy on your brew day? I only ask in that my main goal is making brew day easier now. However, if it does not make it significantly easier, then I will have a hard time justifying the expense to myself and my partner.
> Thank you for your feedback!



For me, it saves a ton of time and effort. I can set my Guten to heat the water (all of it, including my sparge water) to mash temp for when I get up in the morning (multiple steps at the minimum temperature to get through the night, then the heating step timed for when I get up), I then drain the sparge water off in to a bucket and mash in quickly without any doughballs by slowly lowering the malt pipe that is already filled with grain in to the unit, give it a stir then walk off. Come back 15 mins later and turn on the pump for recirculating. Leave again for another 60ish minutes - when I come back the mash has finished and it has heated the wort to about 75oC. Lift out the malt pipe, pour over half of the sparge water and walk off. Come back 5-10 mins later to do the other half of the sparge and throw in any bittering hops (I just do FWH for these). As it comes to a boil, I'm cleaning out the malt pipe, then I'm free to leave for another 45 mins. Come back at 15 mins left in the boil to throw in whirlfloc and nutrient, then prepare my no chill cube and any cube hops. Give it a quick whirlpool after the boil finishes, wait 20 mins to settle then drain in to cube and clean the unit (which takes about 10 mins most times).

Brew day is done and dusted in about 4ish hours (even less if you shorten the mash or boil, or do no sparge), and even during that time I spend very little actual time at the unit. I usually go to the gym during the mash or boil, and do heaps of other stuff around the house too. For me, brewing has become like baking sourdough bread - overall it takes a long time, but there is very little actual active time spent on it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

CyriusBrew said:


> Have you ever brewed with a three vessel system? Do you find using the Guten saves time and energy on your brew day? I only ask in that my main goal is making brew day easier now. However, if it does not make it significantly easier, then I will have a hard time justifying the expense to myself and my partner.
> Thank you for your feedback!


I have as I imagine most have been down the three vessel route, I am one for trying to make a brew day shorter but without compromise to the outcome, so yes single vessel brewery is a good choice to save time and energy, also doing a full volume mash with no sparge saves a bit of time and energy and only a few dollars more to incorporate.


----------



## CKK

goatchop41 said:


> Can we please not turn this thread in to another shit slinging match between the businesses and also their shadow/worker accounts?
> We want to hear from the users and consumers about their experiences. In my mind it's ok for the makers/retailers to highlight what they feel are the advantages/features of their units, but for christ's sake can we please not let this thread devolve in to a pit of negativity and shit slinging? It's just like politics, when everybody devolves in to putting down their competitors instead of actually highlighting what their own positives are and what they can give us that others can't


See our post where we make a point of not going down this path and rather work to help our customers get the best experience that they can. I agree that this is not the place to bait and use it to market gear.


----------



## CKK

Grmblz said:


> It's called product development, sometimes it works well "Windows 10" and sometimes it doesn't "Windows 8"
> Are you suggesting KK do nothing about the Guten overflow pipe failures that appear to be a design flaw, other than sending out replacements that fail on first use?
> The thread title is Robobrew V3 v Guten, no mention of fermenters, do try to stay on topic Reggie-boy or start a thread called lets knock KL so all you fan bois/ghosts can have a home to go to.
> I've had my Robo V3 for a couple of years and it has performed as stated on the box, and done about 40 brews.
> I upgraded the switches to V3.1.1 (black rubber boots not clear silicon) and after 12 months the boots had perished, KL happily replaced them but the new ones were exactly the same as the ones that perished and I can only assume that they will perish also. The problem is they are a right royal pita to replace, they are currently showing out of stock so I can only hope that the new stock will have a better quality boot, other than that I'm very happy with it, and planning on buying all the other upgrade bits to make it a 3.1.1.


The pipe problem was a manufacturing fault and not a design flaw. It has been addressed.


----------



## Grmblz

CEO Keg King said:


> The pipe problem was a manufacturing fault and not a design flaw. It has been addressed.


Glad to hear it, and I never doubted it would be fixed I just used it as an example of how products can evolve, seeing as Reggie seems to think we should all be back in the stone age using V.1, no make that Beta, cor hang on what happened to the Alpha, yeh that's it we'll all stick with the Alpha cos development is the work of the Devil, fer F's sake give me a break, and why are you so sensitive to criticism? Admittedly I have been critical of KK, but I've also bought gear from you and commented on how good it was (FKJ's) and yet one negative comment and you ban me from your thread, that's your prerogative of course but maybe you should rename it KK fan support or something similar. 
Look at my quoted comment here, I criticise the quality of the KL boots but you don't see them throwing a hissy fit, and before anyone starts please don't compare KL's banning of weal to your banning of me, a quick trawl through the posts will reveal very different attitudes/comments, unlike weal and KL/Kee I have no dislike of KK but I do call a spade a spade, and if you stifle criticism you end up with an autocracy, ask the Russians and North Koreans how that's working out for them. 
fwiw the FKJ's are perfect for my needs and have been in constant service since I received them, see I don't hate you xxx focl Cheers G


----------



## Cian Doyle

I went with the Guten after reading the Guten thread, still happy with the choice I made and advice I have received on this forum since the purchase.


----------



## CKK

Grmblz said:


> Glad to hear it, and I never doubted it would be fixed I just used it as an example of how products can evolve, seeing as Reggie seems to think we should all be back in the stone age using V.1, no make that Beta, cor hang on what happened to the Alpha, yeh that's it we'll all stick with the Alpha cos development is the work of the Devil, fer F's sake give me a break, and why are you so sensitive to criticism? Admittedly I have been critical of KK, but I've also bought gear from you and commented on how good it was (FKJ's) and yet one negative comment and you ban me from your thread, that's your prerogative of course but maybe you should rename it KK fan support or something similar.
> Look at my quoted comment here, I criticise the quality of the KL boots but you don't see them throwing a hissy fit, and before anyone starts please don't compare KL's banning of weal to your banning of me, a quick trawl through the posts will reveal very different attitudes/comments, unlike weal and KL/Kee I have no dislike of KK but I do call a spade a spade, and if you stifle criticism you end up with an autocracy, ask the Russians and North Koreans how that's working out for them.
> fwiw the FKJ's are perfect for my needs and have been in constant service since I received them, see I don't hate you xxx focl Cheers G


Grmblz - lots of words and not sure where the Russians and Koreans fit in to all of this. I simply pointed out that it was a manufacturing fault and that its been fixed just as we fix all other things that can be improved. Frankly I really have no interest in what the opposition and its claquetiers want to embroil us in. We simply will not play their games or anybody elses. There is enough real stuff to do in order to serve our clients better than to waste time on these futile exercises. Glad you like our FKJs and I can tell you that you are in good company as they are selling very well.


----------



## onemorecell

CEO Keg King said:


> We simply will not play their games or anybody elses.


What about the whole, "making fake accounts to do exactly that" thing though?

Bit rich to take the highroad now isnt it


----------



## goatchop41

I currently own a guten (one of the 'direct from China', pre-KK-selling-them ones).
With my knowledge and experience now, if I were to buy a new single vessel unit, I would go for the guten again. Overall, they are both much of a muchness in their current forms and very similar. The one thing that sets them apart in my mind is the ability to set variable wattage on the guten, whereas my understanding of the brewzilla is that you have a choice of one or both of the set strength elements, and nothing in between.
In the end though, even that probably doesn't matter too much, so I wouldn't say no to either of them if they were offered to me.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

goatchop41 said:


> The one thing that sets them apart in my mind is the ability to set variable wattage on the guten, whereas my understanding of the brewzilla is that you have a choice of one or both of the set strength elements, and nothing in between.


Maybe it is because I came from a Robo, but with the Guten I use 3000w for ramping and boiling and 1000w for mashing, nothing else. To me the variable thing makes no difference, I may as well have a 1000w and 2000w switch. Do you find that you use many different settings?


----------



## CKK

onemorecell said:


> What about the whole, "making fake accounts to do exactly that" thing though?
> 
> Bit rich to take the highroad now isnt it


People in glass houses throwing stones? That will go down real well. If I wanted I have a lot of stuff I could put up but frankly will that help the people here who are genuinely interested to get answers and enjoy their brewing? So I let it go and let the real contributors here get on with it. No need for claques who are looking for cheap shots and have no interest in discussing brewing and brewing equipment.


----------



## CyriusBrew

Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback on both of these systems.I did not know that I was going to create a cat fight by resurrecting an old thread. I found this thread by using the search function, so as to learn from everyone else's experiences with both units.

I have been reading about these a lot lately. I see positives and negatives of both of the systems. However, the one thing that is clear to me is that both are a much better value than the grainfather. The build quality of the GF does not warrant the increased cost to me.

I reckon I will be happy with either the Guten or Brewzilla, although 50lt seems like the perfect size for me.

The driving factor will be which one my LHBS has in stock as neither the KK or KL sites let me order direct for shipping to NZ on their web site.

In the meantime, I have to get ready for a big brew day this Sunday. Maybe if I am lucky it will be in one vessel.


----------



## CKK

CyriusBrew said:


> Hey folks, thank you for all of the feedback on both of these systems.I did not know that I was going to create a cat fight by resurrecting an old thread. I found this thread by using the search function, so as to learn from everyone else's experiences with both units.
> 
> I have been reading about these a lot lately. I see positives and negatives of both of the systems. However, the one thing that is clear to me is that both are a much better value than the grainfather. The build quality of the GF does not warrant the increased cost to me.
> 
> I reckon I will be happy with either the Guten or Brewzilla, although 50lt seems like the perfect size for me.
> 
> The driving factor will be which one my LHBS has in stock as neither the KK or KL sites let me order direct for shipping to NZ on their web site.
> 
> In the meantime, I have to get ready for a big brew day this Sunday. Maybe if I am lucky it will be in one vessel.


Give Cory at The Brewhouse a call in Wellington and he should be able to help you. No catfight from this side as we have no interest.


----------



## Grok

Just wondering if anyone has checked their heating elements terminals and found any issues?


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

When l fitted my smart pid to my guten l redid some of the connections that looked a bit dodgy. I got mine before KK started selling them so can't comment on the current model.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grok said:


> Just wondering if anyone has checked their heating elements terminals and found any issues?


I did see one where one of the wires had been neglected to be connected, it was the pump wiring, a forgivable mistake. Another was sent back to KK as the pump was working but nothing coming through the return. The tap on the return was in the off position.
I checked mine when I first received it direct from China, all was good, the switches were not up to scratch as a few of us found out later, not from the wiring but from the spring inside the switch.
For the amount of brews I have done I am more than happy.
I also believe that those of us who bought the Guten direct from China, forced the RoboBrew's game changer, looks like they switched manufacturers for the 3.1.


----------



## Ballaratguy

I mis timed my brew yesterday and had to leave the wort in the Guten until this morning. I normally hot cube but time wasn’t on my side
I was worried that I wouldn’t be able to get the wort out as someone said that cool wort won’t feed through the helix coil.
This morning my wort was at 30 deg so I thought what the hell I’ll give it a go.
Hey presto it worked beautifully nice and clear and ran out just like it does when it’s 60+deg


----------



## Grok

Grok said:


> Update! I have rewired a few things and bypassed what used to be the AC Live in tab for the pcb and installed a new fuse (which is only for the transformer used to get 12v DC for circuitry), boofed up some of the power feeds to the relays with more solder (a cheap-arse way of doing it BTW, still, it works!). Also reorganised the Neutral wiring off the elements with a copper buss bar, rather than all the wires looping around, and created a common Neutral wire stack(blue wires), less cluttered now and moves unnecessary wiring away from the hot elements, should of been designed better IMO. I might look at a small extraction fan in there as well, old CPU or graphics card fans are good for that sort of thing.
> But the best part is IT WORKS!!!!!!
> View attachment 117672
> View attachment 117673
> View attachment 117674
> View attachment 117675
> View attachment 117676
> 
> Also, added a good mod pic for the pump, just a brass Y piece with right angle swivel outlets, just garden stuff, and silicon hose, very useful to have a switchable manifold and flexi-hose there.
> View attachment 117677
> 
> Summary: I would suggest that everyone should check to see if the wires to the elements are intact and terminals are clean and free of resistance crud, especially if you've had it for a while. It looked like to me that because there were 2 wires jammed into what should only be 1 wire terminal crimp body, that half the wires were not properly attached and therefor not quite enough current capacity, hence the high resistance heat at that spot and ultimate failure. That is why I put in the copper bridge and got rid of the double looped wires everywhere.
> 
> Weal, I found a link for the older PCB if your interested, presume its still current.
> https://www.angelhomebrew.co.uk/en/59-spares



Just an update, I had tested my repairs with water, but I hadn't done a full brew day until now, and I am happy to report it works great!
The temp read out used to oscillate sometimes by 2 degrees, sorta bouncing up and down and cutting the relays in and out for a bit, and then it would settle to on until it got hot enough, well now that behaviour has completely gone and is rock solid. It seemed to come up to boil quicker as well so I figure the elements are getting more than enough electric juice now....happy brew days again.....TROLALOLAOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## Grok

For those who don't know the Trololo guy........ a Russian classic from 1976, powered to fame by the internet, enjoy!
  the clip.

 the man! 

R.I.P. Eduard Khil


----------



## camNZ

goatchop41 said:


> For me, it saves a ton of time and effort. I can set my Guten to heat the water (all of it, including my sparge water) to mash temp for when I get up in the morning (multiple steps at the minimum temperature to get through the night, then the heating step timed for when I get up), I then drain the sparge water off in to a bucket and mash in quickly without any doughballs by slowly lowering the malt pipe that is already filled with grain in to the unit, give it a stir then walk off. Come back 15 mins later and turn on the pump for recirculating. Leave again for another 60ish minutes - when I come back the mash has finished and it has heated the wort to about 75oC. Lift out the malt pipe, pour over half of the sparge water and walk off. Come back 5-10 mins later to do the other half of the sparge and throw in any bittering hops (I just do FWH for these). As it comes to a boil, I'm cleaning out the malt pipe, then I'm free to leave for another 45 mins. Come back at 15 mins left in the boil to throw in whirlfloc and nutrient, then prepare my no chill cube and any cube hops. Give it a quick whirlpool after the boil finishes, wait 20 mins to settle then drain in to cube and clean the unit (which takes about 10 mins most times).
> 
> Brew day is done and dusted in about 4ish hours (even less if you shorten the mash or boil, or do no sparge), and even during that time I spend very little actual time at the unit. I usually go to the gym during the mash or boil, and do heaps of other stuff around the house too. For me, brewing has become like baking sourdough bread - overall it takes a long time, but there is very little actual active time spent on it.



Thanks for asking this question CyriusBrew and @goatchop41 for the reply, I'm also trying to see if it's worth modifying my current 3v or putting the money towards a single-vessel. A couple of things i see:


@goatchop41 what size batches are you making typically?
Mash water and Sparge heating delay - easy to setup, currently just using timer switch. If I move to high kW elements slightly harder, but part of control board
Walking away from mash - not an issue currently with HERMS
Walking away from sparge - sparge does require an eagle eye currently, Blichmann sparge arm would solve this.
How long does it typically take to get to boil and how do you control boil overs? Do you set heating output to 100% then manually reduce it as you see boil starting?
Cleaning malt pipe while boiling - currently clean MLT during boil. While it is a pain to clean because it is a 50L keg, I think a 70L Guten malt pipe would be the same story?
10 min clean - what does your 10min clean involve? I certainly spend more than 10mins cleaning 3v but I'm pretty thorough
Cooling - can take up to 2 hours, but was never going to cube 50L batches
50-70L batches where always going to take longer/more effort than 20L batches, will a single vessel system save me a lot of more time and effort? Probably yes over current setup and will be cheaper than the mods required to make it similar(automated control board and blichmann sparge arm) if I was to get a Guten or Brewzilla. However they're not in the same league in terms of build quality as my current 3v(actually 4v) system.


----------



## CyriusBrew

camNZ said:


> Thanks for asking this question CyriusBrew and @goatchop41 for the reply, I'm also trying to see if it's worth modifying my current 3v or putting the money towards a single-vessel. A couple of things i see:
> 
> Mash water and Sparge heating delay - easy to setup, currently just using timer switch. If I move to high kW elements slightly harder, but part of control board.....
> ...
> 10 min clean - what does your 10min clean involve? I certainly spend more than 10mins cleaning 3v but I'm pretty thorough
> Cooling - can take up to 2 hours, but was never going to cube 50L batches



Interesting thoughts. Although my boil kettle is Gas, I also have a 70L kettle with two electric elements that feed to two separate power leads. (So I can use two circuits in my house.) I also have a grainfather sparge water heater. My MLT which is a Home Depot cylindrical cooler with a dome false botton. (I also put a bag in it...I know..overkill)

Perhaps if I could get someone skilled to make a mesh plate to go into my electric kettle I can make something? I use an immersion chiller and never did the cubes, as I think it would be hard for me to adjust my hop schedules to my current recipes. 

I reckon by time I do that and work on a controller, I would have paid more than a robobrew or guten. It could be fun though.


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## wide eyed and legless

Stripped down the ball valve on the Guten, been neglected thinking the after brew and pre brew wash with perborate/ percarbonate and hot water was enough. It was putrid ended up soaking the parts in neat Deck Clean, the only source of oxalic acid I had on hand. Bit of a scub with a stiff nylon bristle brush and its as good as new.
Just in case someone is looking for something to do.


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## goatchop41

wide eyed and legless said:


> Stripped down the ball valve on the Guten, been neglected thinking the after brew and pre brew wash with perborate/ percarbonate and hot water was enough. It was putrid ended up soaking the parts in neat Deck Clean, the only source of oxalic acid I had on hand. Bit of a scub with a stiff nylon bristle brush and its as good as new.
> Just in case someone is looking for something to do.



I've been actually thinking about swapping the included ball valve out for a 3 piece one for this exact reason...I've been dreading taking the original one off, cleaning it and then trying to get it back on and having it stay watertight too


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## wide eyed and legless

goatchop41 said:


> I've been actually thinking about swapping the included ball valve out for a 3 piece one for this exact reason...I've been dreading taking the original one off, cleaning it and then trying to get it back on and having it stay watertight too


My intention was just swap the ball valve out for a new one, I thought well if they can be put together they should be able to come apart, a good long soak in the deck clean was able to loosen everything up an old tooth brush and a line brush did the rest, finished with a soak in sodium perborate/percarbonate.


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## CyriusBrew

I am about to make the plunge and do the purchase... Can anyone tell me if any hoses come with the guten 50 for the immersion chiller?
If not, what things do you reckon I need to purchase, so that I can connect the chiller to my kitchen sink? 

It will be nice to get out of the Wellington wind and rain when brewing.


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## wide eyed and legless

CyriusBrew said:


> I am about to make the plunge and do the purchase... Can anyone tell me if any hoses come with the guten 50 for the immersion chiller?
> If not, what things do you reckon I need to purchase, so that I can connect the chiller to my kitchen sink?
> 
> It will be nice to get out of the Wellington wind and rain when brewing.


No hoses, but bog standard garden hose fits over the immersion chiller just need a couple of hose clamps. I would imagine you would get some fittings from a hardware shop in Wellington.


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## CyriusBrew

TY for answering Weal. I will have to order those then since the stores only sell online right now...but good to know, so that I can place the order tonight!


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## Grmblz

CyriusBrew said:


> TY for answering Weal. I will have to order those then since the stores only sell online right now...but good to know, so that I can place the order tonight!


If your chiller is 12.5mm then 12.7mm Compression Fitting to 1/2inch BSP if not then whoever makes it should offer something similar, you then screw on garden hose fittings, think garden tap and hose. WEAL! hose clamps fer fk's sake, I bet you don't have any.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

I used compression fittings. I couldn't get the hose clamps to seal properly. It was a while ago but I think the IC that came with my guten was 10mm pipe, which had something to do with the bit sealing properly.

If the new ones come with a 12.5mm pipe hose clamps should work ok.


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## Grmblz

Ahaaa, Guten or Robo, over to you weal, I'm currently conflicted and unable to comment, I believe it's called a Leopold, ask Will


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## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> If your chiller is 12.5mm then 12.7mm Compression Fitting to 1/2inch BSP if not then whoever makes it should offer something similar, you then screw on garden hose fittings, think garden tap and hose. WEAL! hose clamps fer fk's sake, I bet you don't have any.


I do so Graham, two clamps on inlet and outlet, never taken off, the hoses remain connected when stored.


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## Grmblz

I had you pegged as a clip on clip off sort of guy, mind you hose clamps fit with the tight arse part of your nature.


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## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> I had you pegged as a clip on clip off sort of guy, mind you hose clamps fit with the tight arse part of your nature.


Best thing my Yorkshire mother taught me was to be frugal, and frugal I am.


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## CyriusBrew

I bit the bullet and made the purchase just now. So, I just through some PBW in there and am heating the water up to get rid of the oils / etc...
This seems to go up to 3kw, which would be too high of an amperage for the average home circuit? I thought most houses were wired for 10 - 15amp. So, I am running the warm up at 2.4kw right now. Am I wrong in this? Could I get a boil on 2.4kw?


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## wide eyed and legless

CyriusBrew said:


> I bit the bullet and made the purchase just now. So, I just through some PBW in there and am heating the water up to get rid of the oils / etc...
> This seems to go up to 3kw, which would be too high of an amperage for the average home circuit? I thought most houses were wired for 10 - 15amp. So, I am running the warm up at 2.4kw right now. Am I wrong in this? Could I get a boil on 2.4kw?


Take it you have the 50 litre, I boil on 2.5kw, but I have the hood.


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## CyriusBrew

wide eyed and legless said:


> Take it you have the 50 litre, I boil on 2.5kw, but I have the hood.


Mate, I appreciate you answering yet again. I apologize for so many questions about this thing.
Yeah, I got the 50L model. I am guess you use a normal household circuit, so if 2.5kw is working for you, then I am within a safety margin, 
I hope to take a few pics and post my experiences on a new thread since I am now deviating from the original thread.
This is going to be a different world than 3 vessel, but I sure look forward to an easier brew day!


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## Fro-Daddy

I thought the 50L came with a 15a plug?
Or are you using some sort of power controller thing?


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## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> I thought the 50L came with a 15a plug?
> Or are you using some sort of power controller thing?


It does come with a 15 amp plug, I use an adapter, I am on a 15 amp circuit but don't take the kw to the max, same with the 40 litre never found a need to go more than 2 kw, except for getting it to dough in temp.


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## CyriusBrew

Fro-Daddy said:


> I thought the 50L came with a 15a plug?
> Or are you using some sort of power controller thing?


It fits into a standard NZ power outlet. So, IDK.


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## Grmblz

240v 10 amp GPO's (general purpose outlet) are wired up with 30 amp cable, that's why you can have your toast and tea at the same time on the same circuit, 2 x 2400W @ 240v = 20amps! It's why your fuse on a power circuit is usually 32 amps, so all this hand wringing about 15 amps into a GPO is a bit of a nonsense, use that rarest of commodities "common sense" and don't overload the whole circuit, if in doubt flick the fuse and see what doesn't work anymore, then at least you know exactly what is on that fuse. Usual disclaimer "not to be operated by fktards" and if you're not happy crossing the road by yourself then don't.


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## CyriusBrew

Grmblz said:


> ..., use that rarest of commodities "common sense" and don't overload the whole circuit....


That is asking a whole lot from me.  
Having said that, what you are saying makes sense. I can run a 2.4kw oil column heater to warm up the bedroom and use my computer at the same time. Nevertheless, the wiring in this garage looks a bit dodgy to me, so I will just run the system at 2.4kw, and not run anything else on the same circuit at the time.
I have a mate that is a Sparky, and when this lockdown business is over, he will be coming by to check my circuit and let me know what is safe. I reckon it is better to err on the side of safety.


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## Grmblz

CyriusBrew said:


> I reckon it is better to err on the side of safety.


Absolutely.


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## Trippinonprozac

I’m tossing up between the 40 and 50L guten and equivalent Brewzilla.
Leaning towards to 50L as more power means a quicker brew day. In only intended on single batches. Does anyone do this on the 50L? What’s the dead space volume under the maltpipe ?


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## wide eyed and legless

Trippinonprozac said:


> I’m tossing up between the 40 and 50L guten and equivalent Brewzilla.
> Leaning towards to 50L as more power means a quicker brew day. In only intended on single batches. Does anyone do this on the 50L? What’s the dead space volume under the maltpipe ?


Never measured mine, 50 and 40 litre Gutens are the same diameter, some say it is 8 litres others say 9 litres.


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## CyriusBrew

wide eyed and legless said:


> Never measured mine, 50 and 40 litre Gutens are the same diameter, some say it is 8 litres others say 9 litres.


I never measured either, but it looks like it could easily be 8L.

I did find using the guten was overall ok. However, I did have a frustrating moment when water just seemed like it would not go through the chiller for some reason. It just kept building pressure, and spraying water back into the wort. Of course I freaked out at the moment due to infection concerns. The funny thing is that I switched which hose fed the chiller with the hose the was the exit, and it flowed fine. I have no idea why. I also found that the worm clamps I had were not the greatest at gripping tight enough to prevent any leakage. So, in the short run I will by new clamps. In the long run, I will likely go CFC for cooling the wort.

I posted the recipe earlier today.  Now to work on the video.


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## Grmblz

CyriusBrew said:


> So, in the short run I will by new clamps.


Get compression fittings, and screw on hose fittings, jubilee clips (worm clamps) are rubbish for anything under 25mm, and not much good for bigger, still having trouble getting my head around the fact weal has them.


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## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> Get compression fittings, and screw on hose fittings, jubilee clips (worm clamps) are rubbish for anything under 25mm, and not much good for bigger, still having trouble getting my head around the fact weal has them.


Weal has them because they are cheap, easy, and they work as I said previously 2 clamps on inlet and outlet. I tried 1 on each which didn't work so unfortunately had to fork out for 2 more.


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## Grok

Let me "_*edumacate"*_ you gents on thrifty hose clamps that are better than bought stuff and don't leak!
Having spent half my life as a farmer, I learned the value of having a roll of tie wire and a decent pair of pliers always on hand.
*Behold the Bow-Tie-Wire Clamp!*





Take enough wire to go around about 3 times, but only go around 1 & 1/2 times


Then decide which way you are going to twist and cross wire swords to suit and twist a few turns to tighten it up, try to have the knot over the other wire strap



Trim the whiskers, and with thin nose pliers make a nice little loop so it doesn't catch on things (like flesh!)






And there you have it.
If it doesn't quite seal at first, grab the pliers and give it a 1/4 turn or so, if you twist to many times, the tie wire will fatigue break, then you have to do it again, you will get the feel of it in a few goes. I find it way better and easier than worm drive hose clamps.
Hope this short tutorial helps the frugal brewer out there!
Now time for a refill.........


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## Ballaratguy

CyriusBrew said:


> I never measured either, but it looks like it could easily be 8L.
> 
> I did find using the guten was overall ok. However, I did have a frustrating moment when water just seemed like it would not go through the chiller for some reason. It just kept building pressure, and spraying water back into the wort. Of course I freaked out at the moment due to infection concerns. The funny thing is that I switched which hose fed the chiller with the hose the was the exit, and it flowed fine. I have no idea why. I also found that the worm clamps I had were not the greatest at gripping tight enough to prevent any leakage. So, in the short run I will by new clamps. In the long run, I will likely go CFC for cooling the wort.
> 
> I posted the recipe earlier today.  Now to work on the video.


I have the 40Lt Guten which I fill with a 9 Lt watering can
The first fill with the watering can just gets the bottom screen of the malt pipe covered with water when I use the full 9Lt of water so maybe 8.75 Lt to the bottom of the screen


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## rayhaynes62

I own a Grainfather for the past two years have done 43 brews and have had no equipment failure. Some things that could be improved is the pump filter should be larger and filtered finer. The ball valve gets blocked from time to time when you do big hoppy beers. 
The electronic controller works great. 
The silicon seal on the strainers can be to push to the bottom of the barrel without coming off. 
The coil cooler works great. The blue tooth component works well.


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