# Do You Use Crystal in APAs and IPAs?



## yankinoz (30/12/16)

In home brew forums and in expert advice sources such BYO and Beersmith, there are sharp differences of opinion whether to add crystal to the grist in APAs and IPAs. Love or hate, it seems. You can taste crystal in some commercial craft examples, but not others.

I use a little light crystal or toffee malt in APAs or AIPAs if the yeast is fairly attenuative (BRY-97 for me with these beers), but would not if attenuation were low. I see one commercial brewer does a Mosaic/Golden Promise SMASH IPA, where the GP provides the slight sweetness to balance the bittering. No crystal. I'm going to try that.

Poll? How many use crystal in APAs? In AIPAs? Is it C70? C120? Special B?


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## Dan Pratt (30/12/16)

Coodgee loves crystal in his Hoppy ales. 

Me, more than 5% is too much in an IPA, a touch over for pale ales is ok


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## Mr B (30/12/16)

I reckon you're on the money there, depends on the individual and the specific recipe.

I've backed right off at the moment, might put a little but never much, looking for dryer finishes.

The father in Law did gift me some trappist quadrupels at Christmas, I must say that this has my interest. Wheat beer with a strong crystal/sweet finish, about 10% abv. Delicious....


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## Chridech (30/12/16)

I've brewed a few APAs with no crystal but up to 10% Munich. Malt presence without cloying sweetness. IMO it produces a nice APA.


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## manticle (30/12/16)

I like a shade of crystal in both.

I also like the results without but using a portion of munich or vienna in the base.

Love it and love it.

And heritage crystal is my go to for this - otherwise a blend of light, med and dark, 100 -150 g total in 5-7 kg base (depending on apa or ipa).


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## husky (30/12/16)

I used to use up to 10% in both IPA's and APA's however recently my tastes have favoured beers with next to none. I have been using 3% light crystal in my APA's lately but without munich or vienna felt like it needed more than that, will bump up by 1% for the next one and re assess.


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## timmi9191 (30/12/16)

If youre brewing it for you to drink, brew it the way you like it. If youre brewing it for others, brew to their taste. If youre brewing to enter in a competition then brew to the style parameters. All of the above maybe with or without crystal malts


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## Midnight Brew (30/12/16)

Apas: 2-3% for colour and added complexity 
IPAs : none. 70% ale 30% Munich 
Red IPA: 70% red x (yeah it's a blend) 30% wheat


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## Mardoo (31/12/16)

Depends on what I'm going for really. If I want a wicked dry pale, then no, and as some have noted Vienna or Munich for effect. If I want something a bit juicy and lush, then yes. I've been messing about with Carahell at the moment in that regard, and am liking what it brings. 

Golden Promise is practically my goto IIA malt. Love it! Pearl is making a serious play in that regard, but it's often harder to get.


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## Mardoo (31/12/16)

That's "goto IPA malt".


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## quadbox (31/12/16)

I've been going two thirds marris otter one third munich on my IPAs lately and have been very happy with it.


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## Markbeer (31/12/16)

I prefer no crystal, but still use for them sometimes. But love a little wheat.

The hops punch through.

Another malt to consider includes biscuit.


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## Coodgee (31/12/16)

Pratty1 said:


> Coodgee loves crystal in his Hoppy ales.
> 
> Me, more than 5% is too much in an IPA, a touch over for pale ales is ok


You again. Indeed i love the crystal. 10% medium Bairds crystal in an apa for sure.


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## yankinoz (3/1/17)

Since I started this thread I've scanned AHB's and other databases for APA and IPA recipes. It looks like crystal-adders are in the majority, but there are plenty of dissenters. The crystal is usually light or else medium used in very small quantities, but dark crystal turns up in a few complex crystal additions. Most crystal additions are under 5%, but I found as high as 20%. As among commenters here, the second most common specialty malt is Munich (usually instead of crystal, not along with it), but one also finds Victory, Biscuit, melanoidin and wheat malts, often in combination.

Although base-malt-only examples turn up, most home brewers seek supplemental malt flavours to balance the hops. Disagreement focuses more on wanted or unwanted sweetness than on maltiness.

I've liked many fairly dry APAs, my own included, but the one time I went for an especially dry one, by mashing low, leaving out crystal or toffee, using 6% corn sugar and fermenting with Notty at 14, raising to 18, I did not like the result.

The BJCP guidelines for APAs leave the choice of specialty malts open, but emphasise moderatiom. "Specialty grains may add character and complexity, but generally make up a relatively small portion of the grist," but also, "Caramel flavors are usually restrained or absent." On AIPAs: "Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels."


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (3/1/17)

Dark Crystal is working well ATM for me, but my crystal is never above 5% is often at 3%. Liking the complexity and colour I get from Dark Crystal without the sweetness being overpowering.


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## Adr_0 (3/1/17)

No crystal in APA's or IPA's for me here.

I'm contemplating throwing some Cara-amber into the next one, but undecided. I guess that's technically a crystal.


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## Adr_0 (3/1/17)

Adr_0 said:


> No crystal in APA's or IPA's for me here.
> 
> I'm contemplating throwing some Cara-amber into the next one, but undecided. I guess that's technically a crystal.


Sorry, this probably wasn't a helpful post. 

As manticle said, Munich (IMO Munich II from Weyermann is the pick) to 15-25% or Vienna to 30-40% will give you plenty of *ahem* malt backbone, ie malt flavour, body and sweetness. Water, yeast and mash temps will greatly affect this too though. 

These malts (Munich II and Vienna) are not a substitute for medium or dark crystal though - so if you are after a specific caramel/toffee sweetness they will not work. 

My personal preference is a solid chunk of Munich II/Vienna with a few % toast, eg amber or victory. Great with English or American IPA's.

Some of the modern hops - I'm looking at you Citra - can add another layer of sweetness.


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## tj2204 (4/1/17)

I go through phases with/without crystal in my APA/IPAs. 

Looking back at beersmith recently I seem to have settled on 2-3% light/med crystal in most APAs, however for most of 2016 my APAs were 80/15/5 or there abouts Ale/Munich/Wheat.


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## BKBrews (22/3/17)

I recently did a 4.2% Session IPA with MO, Wheat and 10% Medium Crystal (gladfields). Probably my favourite beer yet.


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## pcqypcqy (22/3/17)

My early efforts had heaps of crystal, 10% or more. I think I got the base recipes from BYO or from other american forums.

I've been thinking about re-brewing one of these now that my tastes and skills have developed, I suspect it might just be a sweet mess of a beer now.


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## pcqypcqy (22/3/17)

The real question should be how much Choc Wheat goes in every beer you brew.


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## Coodgee (22/3/17)

I'm at the realization now that within reason any combination of base malt and crystal and any combination of late American hops all produce an ipa that is not definitively better than any other.


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## Adr_0 (22/3/17)

Coodgee said:


> I'm at the realization now that within reason any combination of base malt and crystal and any combination of late American hops all produce an ipa that is not definitively better than any other.


Bingo.


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