# NSW Container deposit scheme.



## spog (23/11/17)

Should read Scam.
I’ve read that the NSW Gov is introducing the 10 cent refund on beverage containers which has been in here in SA for some time.
Good O, hmmm, a slab contains 24 so 24x10 cents = $2.40.
So to counter act this the NSW Gov wants to whack an extra (minimum) $3.40 on to the price of a slab.
What the Gov gives with one hand they take with the other.
Cheeky *****.


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## labels (23/11/17)

The system they are introducing in NSW is bizarre. You're right, SA has had the scheme in place for near on twenty years - why try to re-invent the wheel. It works here flawlessly, they ironed out all the bugs years ago. Crazy NS Welshmen.


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## spog (23/11/17)

I believe a system were you deposit the empty into a deposit point and receive a receipt is planned, I saw this in Norway 15 + years ago were you take the empty’s to the supermarket, bung em in the hole in the wall and get a receipt that you present at the checkout, and that amount gets knocked off the total of your grocery bill.
Works beautifully over (up) there......


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## Bribie G (25/11/17)

Containers that are not included in the Scheme and, therefore, do not qualify for a refund are


plain milk or milk substitute containers
flavoured milk containers of 1 litre or more
pure fruit or vegetable juice containers of 1 litre or more
glass containers for wine and spirits
casks (plastic bladders in boxes) for wine and casks for water of 1 litre or more
sachets for wine of 250 millilitres or more
containers for cordials, or concentrated fruit and vegetable juices
registered health tonics
These exceptions are like those in the South Australian and Northern Territory container deposit schemes, to aid consistency.

Well that cuts me out, as I don't drink soft drinks and the vast majority of my containers are wine bottles, casks and milk bottles. As for registered health tonics, I'm an AG brewer so I make my own healthy tonics.


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## Aus.Morgo (1/12/17)

spog said:


> I believe a system were you deposit the empty into a deposit point and receive a receipt is planned, I saw this in Norway 15 + years ago were you take the empty’s to the supermarket, bung em in the hole in the wall and get a receipt that you present at the checkout, and that amount gets knocked off the total of your grocery bill.
> Works beautifully over (up) there......


The Netherlands has the same system, works fine for them and the beer is cheap.


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## wynnum1 (2/12/17)

I can see a lot of beverage companies moving out of NSW with excessive charges and the scheme is using false information about what happens to containers here in Qld saying 2.4 billion and most are wasted or littered so what is happening to what we put in recycle bin .
If you do not buy in NSW you can not return and in South Australia $50,000 fine.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (2/12/17)

I can see all the other states following suit so we have a nationally consistent scheme.


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## wynnum1 (2/12/17)

Yes they all seem to be _singing from the same songbook ._


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## pcmfisher (2/12/17)

labels said:


> The system they are introducing in NSW is bizarre. You're right, SA has had the scheme in place for near on twenty years - why try to re-invent the wheel. It works here flawlessly, they ironed out all the bugs years ago. Crazy NS Welshmen.



Try 40 years. 1977


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## wynnum1 (2/12/17)

Its a tax the government gets gst and keeps all money that is payed on containers not returned.


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## technohead (3/12/17)

Saw here a container hiding somewhere in the corner of the parking lot. Will become a lot of effort to bring 10 empty bottles, deposit them, get a receipt, hand it in. All for a 1 dollar discount. In Holland been in place for ages. But the cost is higher and the machines are in the store. Also there the bottles are actually reused. Not sure if that is the case here.


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## Fergy1987 (4/12/17)

So are the price increases across the country though? I noticed there is a little note on the Dan Murphys website saying due to this scheme the prices will increase......I assume QLD wont have to pay more because of a NSW scheme?


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## Grott (4/12/17)

A couple of real benefits here in SA and will occur elsewhere is the massive reduction in waste and waste collection. Many homeless and economically disadvantage people collect them from wherever and subsides their income a bit. The state govt and Centrelink haven’t worked out how to charge/penalise the collectors yet but.....
Consumers already penalised but I think it’s worth it.


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## Liam_snorkel (4/12/17)

The scheme is being run by Coke, CUB, Asahi, Coopers, & Lion, and seems designed to push craft breweries to the brink.

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...e/news-story/0c58c21fbde39bb478451f228ded8465


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## laxation (4/12/17)

I really dont understand why a company that sells drinks should have to pay for recycling cans. I'm also a bit lost why it would cost a small brewery $140k.
Also why can't you crush cans? what on earth do they plan on doing with them when they get them if not crush them?

but on the other hand.. i live in Vic and home brew. So good luck to you lot...


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## manticle (4/12/17)

I can't make sense of it but so many large scale, government organised projects seem to suffer from a massive dose of stupid (nbn, insulation install and this are all fairly recent examples).


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## madpierre06 (4/12/17)

Straight out thievery, and you get to send your competitors broke in the process. The wedge is well on the way.


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## madpierre06 (4/12/17)

manticle said:


> I can't make sense of it but so many large scale, government organised projects seem to suffer from a massive dose of stupid (nbn, insulation install and this all fairly recebt examples).



Beyond stupid mate, pure corruption and complicity.


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/12/17)

I can see the NSW scheme working fantastically well...I mean its a government scheme so its gota work

In other news...Christoper Columbus just fell of the edge of the world


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## dcutler (4/12/17)

Best part is - my closest reverse vending machine is 250kms away. And I don't even live in the sticks, my LGA has 90,000+ living here. I think I might use a bit more fuel than I make back....


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## laxation (4/12/17)

Hmmm....


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## wynnum1 (4/12/17)

Have they changed any of the cans and bottles to include NSW. with NT, SA when they where doing in United States was massive fraud until they started asking for personal details that is why they do not give cash .


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## niftinev (4/12/17)

effin useless, have to travel 250klm each way if I want o participate!!!!

Only one refund station between Port Macquarie and the QLD border, whats the good of it.

Typical dipshit pollies couldn't organise a root in a brothel with a handful of 50s


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## labels (4/12/17)

Best to see the S.A. scheme first hand but looking outside of the legislation into the day-to-day running of the sheme is as follows.
There are bottle collection depots scattered around the state, mainly in the cities and population centres, some are privately run, others by organisations such as Scouts.
Most people save their recyclables in large bags or they buy 2nd hand wheelie bins and take them down once in a while (3 months, 6 months?)
Others who can't be bothered will pass them on to whoever, their house cleaner, the kids, local charity or whatever.
People short of money will collect them to suppliment their income, mainly homeless people and pensioners.
In the country, they do get collected and brought to the city by truck, filling a truck with 10c containers adds up to a lot.
Crushing cans and bottles is allowed (at least at my depot) providing they can see the 10c deposit printing or the cans are blatently obvious - popular brands of soft drink and beer for example.
The depots quite often take other recyclables - dead car batteries etc. and sell stuff like LPG refills, firewood etc.
In the outaback, the system fails, too far away, but for the most part the system seems to work fine.


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## lost at sea (4/12/17)

so essentially im now getting taxed for USING my home recycling bin? sweet...


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## peteru (5/12/17)

I can see this increasing litter in the suburbs as there will be people rummaging through the recycling bins (where these containers used to go anyway) and in the process scatter other recycling that they are not interested in.

It's a lose-lose situation for just about everyone, except the few corrupt parties that are twisting this to their advantage. I'm surprised Gladys went along with this, she's a bit more pragmatic. I guess she had plenty of other shit left over from Baird to worry about this one.


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/12/17)

lost at sea said:


> so essentially im now getting taxed for USING my home recycling bin? sweet...



Got to love it dont you


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## knot_gillty (5/12/17)

manticle said:


> I can't make sense of it but so many large scale, government organised projects seem to suffer from a massive dose of stupid (nbn, insulation install and this are all fairly recent examples).



NBN is aids!! Not even working here in Gippsland Vic at the moment.


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## Coalminer (5/12/17)

Listened to the Parliamentary Secretary for the Hunter on Saturday ( yeah I'm a masochist) being interviewed on ABC about the recycle scheme as he was taken to task (with a damp lettuce leaf) as to why there were very few depots. He stated that the locations were selected in consideration of how big the litter problem was in that particular area that the refund depots were located. 
So if the neighborhood is a responsible one and doesn't litter they will not get a depot, but will still have to pay the extra cost (bloody sight more than 10 cents after companies pass on the registration /compliance costs, and don't forget the GST as well).
If you live in a grubby neighborhood then you will get a depot eventually.
This bullshit has nothing to do with litter, just another big money making scheme for the Govt arsewipes. If I squash a can it can't be accepted for refund so the Govt keeps that money.


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## Grott (5/12/17)

spog said:


> Should read Scam.
> I’ve read that the NSW Gov is introducing the 10 cent refund on beverage containers which has been in here in SA for some time.
> Good O, hmmm, a slab contains 24 so 24x10 cents = $2.40.
> So to counter act this the NSW Gov wants to whack an extra (minimum) $3.40 on to the price of a slab.
> ...



*I think* initially the problem was with the recycle depots that paid the 10 cents. The government was guaranteeing I think 15 cents therefore the extra on the slab for example. However reuse companies expanded and so the recyclers found a better income source. Naturally the Government stopped paying and continued to reap the added cost.


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## wynnum1 (5/12/17)

If you live near the Queensland or Victorian border going to be cheaper going interstate to buy items with the deposit and then give to a friend to redeem the deposit because it illegal for you to get deposit on items not purchased in NSW but Queensland is bringing in the scheme next year.
That is probably why there is a lack of depots near the border.


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## mongey (5/12/17)

I got one of those machines just down the road from me at Bulli but who the hell is gonna stand there and put in their cans/bottles in one by one 

also the non crushed can and labels on the bottles is a joke . so we are supposed to recycle but not crush the cans to actually maximize the space we need to recycle . am I supposed to not crush the cans on my head like a real man ?


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## wynnum1 (5/12/17)

Do you think with good glass beer bottles that you can use that if the labels where soaked off carefully they could be put on other bottles that do not have a deposit like tomato sauce and collect the deposit that way .


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## mongey (5/12/17)

wynnum1 said:


> Do you think with good glass beer bottles that you can use that if the labels where soaked off carefully they could be put on other bottles that do not have a deposit like tomato sauce and collect the deposit that way .


possibly

is said careful operation worth 10 cents though ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/12/17)

Mmm...how to print bar code stickers......just sayin'


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## Jack of all biers (5/12/17)

What a joke. Can't crush cans, have vending machines that take one bottle at a time... From the state that brought you the rum rebellion, the Fitzgerald inquiry and more recent political corruption scandals, I'm shocked that a BS scheme has been devised (oozes sarcasm here).

When a neighbouring State (SA) has had a scheme that works that can be directly modelled off of, why reinvent the wheel? Save your containers (right down to the little yakult bottles) till you have enough to justify you trip to the depot. Multiple young blokes count up your bottles etc and in 5 mins your driving away with 40-50 bucks. Everyone's happy and our 80% recycling rate shows how successful it is.

Also to the comment that people will raid your recycling bins and leave your rubbish everywhere afterwards. Well that doesn't seem to happen. I've seen them do it often enough here in SA and never seen them leave a mess. If your concerned about that then don't put deposit bottles in your recycling bin.


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## Dan_kville (6/12/17)

Jack of all biers said:


> What a joke. Can't crush cans, have vending machines that take one bottle at a time... From the state that brought you the rum rebellion, the Fitzgerald inquiry and more recent political corruption scandals, I'm shocked that a BS scheme has been devised (oozes sarcasm here).
> 
> When a neighbouring State (SA) has had a scheme that works that can be directly modelled off of, why reinvent the wheel? Save your containers (right down to the little yakult bottles) till you have enough to justify you trip to the depot. Multiple young blokes count up your bottles etc and in 5 mins your driving away with 40-50 bucks. Everyone's happy and our 80% recycling rate shows how successful it is.
> 
> Also to the comment that people will raid your recycling bins and leave your rubbish everywhere afterwards. Well that doesn't seem to happen. I've seen them do it often enough here in SA and never seen them leave a mess. If your concerned about that then don't put deposit bottles in your recycling bin.



Except we already have over 75% recycling rate for those items. This is solving a problem that doesn't exist.

If they were serious about the environment, they would be looking at soft plastics.


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## wynnum1 (7/12/17)

Seems they have a problem phantom recycle centers on there web site and when do find one the reverse vending machines are out of order.


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## manticle (7/12/17)

wynnum1 said:


> Do you think with good glass beer bottles that you can use that if the labels where soaked off carefully they could be put on other bottles that do not have a deposit like tomato sauce and collect the deposit that way .


Yes


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## Black Devil Dog (7/12/17)

I remember many, many years ago, when I was a young kid growing up on the Eyre Peninsula in SA. 

It was pretty common for my Dad and to a lesser extent my Mum, to chug down a few tallies whenever we were driving to or from some place or other.

Whenever Dad finished a tallie, he'd wind the window down and with a well practised flick, send the empty sailing back over the roof of the car and into the bushes on the side of the road. We thought it was a pretty damned impressive and got quite excited when the bottle bounced around a bit and landed, usually in tact. 

Enter 1977 and the introduction of the recycling scheme. Mum used to get us kids into the van and we'd drive along those roads, picking up the very same bottles that Dad had launched out of the car, in the months/years before.


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## MHB (18/12/17)

Just went down to the Woolies in Mayfield and they are installing one of the new container deposit banks.





And just because I'm a nosy bugger, I had a look in the back




Been talking to a couple of small producers and importers over the last couple of weeks, basically if you are Coca Cola Schweppes, Lion... it will probably work OK, if you are small and work for a living they have your nuts in a vice.
I hear that they have already put the price per bar code up or are planning to.
Mark


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## wynnum1 (18/12/17)

The container deposit banks are turning into tips with all the waste left after they recycle there containers and dump what does not go into machines so they are going to put rubbish bins these bins could be a good place to get rid of excess waste like prawn shells disposable nappies but would need to get there early before they are full.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/17)

MHB said:


> I hear that they have already put the price per bar code up or are planning to.
> Mark



The government does not issuse the bar codes. They are issued by entities in a similar way you get web domain name

The problem is when you have you change the barcode to suit the recycling scheme, and that cost money to register a new barcode and change the printing on the product


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## MHB (18/12/17)

Yes I know, at present its $80 (and according to people doing the job a couple of hours work) per Label so even if a small brewery who made 6 beers and bottled then all in the same bottles they would have to buy 6 of $80 barcodes ($480). Just because some say Pale Ale and some say Stout
I was talking to my mate Jason at IBC, over a year he has over 150 beers so up for something like $12,000 just in fees and call it a couple of hundred man hours (on a 40 hour week - 5 working weeks - 1/10 of a working year).

Seriously disadvantaging small businesses, and the smaller the higher the impost.
I would think that for small distributers a generic barcode that covers each of their say amber, green, flint bottles, cans... call it half a dozen barcodes, just so they get sorted into the right bins might be a really good idea.
This crapola has been sponsored by a Liberal state government that is apparently all for small business - sounds to me like they are all for sticking it up small business.

I'm a big supporter of sensible recycling schemes and have been a fan of the SA model for years, this one is just bureaucratic nonsense thought up by the big end of town, I doubt they missed the impact on smaller competitors. Having seen the games some of these corps play when a small brewery gets a tap on at a pub, well think about it.
Mark


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## manticle (18/12/17)

So IBC, for example has to recode (or pay for same) all the beers they stock, even though a good whack of those will be going outside the state and therefore recycled elsewhere?
And J & A will have no choice but to jack up the currently incredibly well priced six pack they send out each month to recuperate?

I don't want to be selfish but that really makes me hate this scheme.


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## MHB (18/12/17)

Jason said it would be cheaper for him not to retail in NSW - so you will still get looked after, as you would expect.
Shame you live so far away - Christmas Drinks on Saturday at IBC were well.... how about debilitating.

I have spent half an hour today on the phone with the EPA here in NSW, after that they agreed that they couldn't answer some of my questions I'm waiting a return call from a policy officer.
One other point I am trying to clarify.
It looks like members of the "Industry Counsel" that was assembled to put this crap together will be able to look at the figures - to improve the scheme of course.
Just great, the big boys (it think its Lion, CUB, Coke, Schweppes and Coopers + some others) will be able to tell exactly how many any of the growing small players are selling, would be really handy information if your thinking of picking up a couple of craft breweries so you can bugger them to!

I'm getting pretty ticked off about how this has been put together, will keep chasing the EPA, and try to get an appointment with my local member - at a minimum its uncompetitive behaviour, at worst potentially very open to corruption - we have has enough of that here in NSW.

Guys if you care about good beer - make a noise, at least ask your local craft brewery if there is anyone you can bug.
Mark


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## Grott (18/12/17)

MHB said:


> Just went down to the Woolies in Mayfield and they are installing one of the new container deposit banks.
> View attachment 110511
> 
> And just because I'm a nosy bugger, I had a look in the back
> ...


I just can’t believe that shit. As already stated why wouldn’t you copy the SA system that works, works well, is proven success without any inconvenience to anyone and employs people?


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## MHB (18/12/17)

Yep Grott.
Polly Latin for many, Tick a small mindless blood sucking parasite... (adapted from Larry Hardiman)
I'm a bit baffled to, would have thought SA would be a good model - been working and from all reports well for a hell of a long time (1977, 40 years) should be thoroughly debugged by now.
I can see the barcode scanning automated bins having all sorts off problems, not to mention the dumping of rubbish that the recycler rejects (see wynnum1 above) - seriously I think it's heading for a Cluster **** (On of Americas better contributions to English)


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/17)

Grott said:


> I just can’t believe that shit. As already stated why wouldn’t you copy the SA system that works, works well, is proven success without any inconvenience to anyone and employs people?




....jeezuz Grott...you cant be so silly as to not recognise that the SA model doesnt allow for the Libs business buddies to make money out of it like they will with this awesomely fantastic well though out plan ( planned by big business for big business )


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## madpierre06 (18/12/17)

How does this get through as easily as it has when there is so clearly conflict of interest at the very least....corruption being so oibvious.


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## manticle (18/12/17)

MHB said:


> Jason said it would be cheaper for him not to retail in NSW - so you will still get looked after, as you would expect.
> Shame you live so far away - Christmas Drinks on Saturday at IBC were well.... how about debilitating.
> 
> I have spent half an hour today on the phone with the EPA here in NSW, after that they agreed that they couldn't answer some of my questions I'm waiting a return call from a policy officer.
> ...



IBC is a great example of a small, niche business that offers product otherwise unavailable, conveniently and at excellent prices and top service so if I had to carry a small increase to continue to see that happen, I would. Don't want to, but I would.

Just really scratching my head to see the perceived benefit of this scheme to most. I have a small inkling (read hope) that it may become a turkey.

Drinks with IBC sounds like it was worth missing most of Sunday.


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## Jack of all biers (18/12/17)

MHB said:


> I can see the barcode scanning automated bins having all sorts off problems, not to mention the dumping of rubbish that the recycler rejects (see wynnum1 above) - seriously I think it's heading for a Cluster **** (On of Americas better contributions to English)


Totally agree, but your government has been convinced (no doubt by some company that sold this shit) that automation will save money. Problem is, it saves at one end, but someone else has to pay (ie the stupid barcode idea). WTF. Here in SA, you take your bottles/cans etc to some low paid dudes and you won't be able to pull the old, "yeah mate, just take this bag of babies nappies and other shit with the two bottles I brought". I'm betting it won't cost in wages, what your system costs. Plus the Recycling Centres here make money in other areas of recycling. (Places alfoil hat on) ******* robots taking over the world, so some rich ******* wankers can **** over anyone to make an easy buck. (takes alfoil hat off)



Ducatiboy stu said:


> ....jeezuz Grott...you cant be so silly as to not recognise that the SA model doesnt allow for the Libs business buddies to make money out of it like they will with this awesomely fantastic well though out plan ( planned by big business for big business )


This is why in the last 40 years SA have only had about 5 years or so under the Liberals. Not saying Labor are good here (let's face it we are almost as poor as Tasmania!) and I am a fairly conservative voter (shakes head at polititians in general).



madpierre06 said:


> How does this get through as easily as it has when there is so clearly conflict of interest at the very least....corruption being so oibvious.



See my last post about the history of NSW and corruption. It goes back along way. Not saying the people are bad in NSW, but the institutions have had long and colourful histories of dodgy shit.

I feel sorry for the businesses affected by this scheme (scheme/scam sound so similar don't they) and NSW in general.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/17)

At one stage, NSW had the best police that money could buy


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## madpierre06 (18/12/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> At one stage, NSW had the best police that money could buy



I reckon that Robert G. Barrett, when he wrote the Les Norton books, took on board the old saying: "The names have been changed to protect the author and guilty". And quite a few weren't changed that muchly....


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## Beersuit (18/12/17)

I heard on brews news that this was going to be a trial thing only. I know that it's gunna do more harm than good to small business in the state but if its a trial it relies on people using the system so please New South Welshman continue to use your keen side recycling.


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## Dae Tripper (18/12/17)

My yellow bin does a better job.


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## GalBrew (19/12/17)

Putting the bins out once a week is annoying enough! It would shit me to tears having to collect up my recycling and cart it off to the nearest robot.....like I haven’t got anything better to do with my time [emoji849]


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## MHB (19/12/17)

Well I was down at woolies at 0900, and to give fair credit there were a bunch of people feeding bottles into the maw.
One very entrepreneurial 12 year old had dragooned his mother into bringing his weekend bottle collection down for him - he was heading toward $50 worth of credits and a was waring a pretty self satisfied smile.
The machine appeared to be working pretty well, as we would hope on day one, apparently they had already been around this morning to empty the PET bin, and at 09:00 the can receiver wasn't - it was full to, someone had rung for a truck.

As discussed above, the single recycling bin out the front was full and fair progress on filling a couple of woolies shopping trollies with crap was being made.
Be interesting to see how it goes, questions of reliability and obviously keeping the bins inside emptied will have to be addressed.

Still got concerns about the registration process and cost.
Mark


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## wynnum1 (19/12/17)

If you get 10 cents a can would suggest that the can is worth 1 cent at the scrap dealer so who is getting the scrap aluminum.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/12/17)

Spends $50 on beer
Spends $10 in fuel to get to recyling bin
Gets $2.40 in cold hard cash


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## labels (19/12/17)

MHB said:


> Yep Grott.
> Polly Latin for many, Tick a small mindless blood sucking parasite... (adapted from Larry Hardiman)
> I'm a bit baffled to, would have thought SA would be a good model - been working and from all reports well for a hell of a long time (1977, 40 years) should be thoroughly debugged by now.
> I can see the barcode scanning automated bins having all sorts off problems, not to mention the dumping of rubbish that the recycler rejects (see wynnum1 above) - seriously I think it's heading for a Cluster **** (On of Americas better contributions to English)


Look at my moniker, I print labels. What barcodes do you guys want? just let me know, we cover all barcode symbologies


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## lost at sea (19/12/17)

Still cant understand why im being charged for this at the bottle shop when im recycling in my own bin like i always have?


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/12/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Mmm...how to print bar code stickers......just sayin'




...as I was sayin'.......although it may not be legit, I doubt someone actually checks that the bottle has the correct label..


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## wynnum1 (21/12/17)

That is why they are using reverse vending machines was plenty of fraud in the states in United States if containers after getting deposit are not destroyed what would stop putting through the system again craft brewers may want to use reusable bottles and buy there bottles back like happened before they introduced single use bottles what does a bottle cost there not cheap.


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