# Style Of The Week 27/2/08 - Weizenbock



## Stuster (27/2/08)

I though this week we could talk about a beer that's big but still dangerously drinkable (as we ISBers found out thanks to Oldbugman :icon_cheers: ). Weizenbock is a dark wheat beer brewed with a bit more oomph, usually up around 7-8% alcohol or even more. It's the weizen brewer's answer to a heft doppelbock and BJCP style 15C.

So any recipes out there? Grains? Hops? Yeast? Fermentation tips? How long maturing? Kits and bits options? Any commercial weizenbocks you like/can get here?

Give us all you've got so we can brew and drink some great beer. :chug: 



> 15C. Weizenbock
> 
> Aroma: Rich, bock-like melanoidins and bready malt combined with a powerful aroma of dark fruit (plums, prunes, raisins or grapes). Moderate to strong phenols (most commonly vanilla and/or clove) add complexity, and some banana esters may also be present. A moderate aroma of alcohol is common, although never solventy. No hop aroma, diacetyl or DMS.
> 
> ...


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## Jye (27/2/08)

I brewed the version given by Longshot winner Rodney Kibzey on the Jamil show and it reminds me a lot of Aventinus :chug: IMHO a very tasty beer and Ill be bringing along a bottle to this weeks BABBs meeting for a bit of feedback. 

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/Jamil12-03-07.mp3

*Weizenbock*

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 1/01/2008 
Style: Weizenbock Brewer: Jye
Batch Size: 23.00 L Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 30.08 L Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.0 % Equipment:
Actual Efficiency: 79.7 % 
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.40 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 52.7 % 
2.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 38.7 % 
0.25 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 3.9 % 
0.15 kg Caramunich III (Weyermann) (71.0 SRM) Grain 2.3 % 
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt Pale (Bairds) (329.9 SRM) Grain 2.3 % 

15.00 gm Magnum [13.10%] (60 min) Hops 19.0 IBU 

5.00 gm Salt (Boil 90.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm 5.2 (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 

1 Pkgs Weizen (Fermentis #WB-06) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.070 SG (1.064-1.085 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.070 SG 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.017 SG (1.015-1.022 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG 
Estimated Color: 14.4 SRM (12.0-25.0 SRM) Color [Color] 
Bitterness: 19.0 IBU (15.0-30.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 1.1 AAU 
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.0 % (6.5-8.5 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 7.2 %


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## Weizguy (27/2/08)

I can get the Pikantus by Erdinger in Newcastle. As suggested, it's too easy to drink. :icon_cheers: 

I made a nice Weizenbock (or Dunkelweizen Doppelbock, if you will) for the HAG Xmas case last year. My recipe was based on Jamil's Aventinus clone...recipe here.

Reviews here and here. Photo here..

The style is very drinkable and dark + malty like a doppelbock. I think the term for this is "balance".

Les out


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## sah (27/2/08)

Jye said:


> I brewed the version given by Longshot winner Rodney Kibzey on the Jamil show and it reminds me a lot of Aventinus :chug:
> 
> View attachment 17934



This is such an awesome style. Coincidentally I've been planning brewing a similar recipe to this for my next.

Jye, can you tell me what your impression of the sweetness is? Do you have notes of your apparent attenuation?

How were the esters / phenolics? What was your fermentation temperature?

Can you try and describe the flavour profile?

Sorry for the 100 questions.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Jye (27/2/08)

If you can hold out until Friday I can give you mine and other brewers impressions. 

It was pitched onto a WB07 yeast cake and fermented between 17-18C. Gravity dropped from 70 to 15, so about 78% attenuation and there definitely isnt any sweetness.


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## Stuster (27/2/08)

Jye said:


> It was pitched onto a WB07 yeast cake



So what's this new yeast strain then? Holding out on us, hey? :lol:


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## sah (27/2/08)

Jye said:


> If you can hold out until Friday I can give you mine and other brewers impressions.



Mate, I can hold out. Thanks for the info. Your comment on sweetness is interesting given the 0.27 BU:GU. I guess that high attenuation and resultant alcohol has taken care of most of the sweetness.

Cheers,
Scott


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## Jye (27/2/08)

Stuster said:


> So what's this new yeast strain then? Holding out on us, hey? :lol:



Ive said too much already


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## neonmeate (28/2/08)

i made a good one of these a few years back based on the protz and wheeler aventinus recipe. quite a high FG but it was really tasty. i double decocted the bugger with a ferulic rest. and pitched at 14, fermented at 19.


Batch size 14 liters
Volume Boiled 17.5 liters
Mash Efficiency 69 %
3 kg. German Wheat Malt Light info
.750 kg. Hoepfner Munich
.710 kg. German 2-row Pils info
.540 kg. Weyermann CaraMunich I info
35 g. Hallertau Hersbruck (Pellets, 2.9 %AA) boiled 60 min. info
15 g. Hallertau Hersbruck (Pellets, 2.9 %AA) boiled 20 min. info
Yeast : White Labs WLP380 Hefeweizen IV Ale info

Original Gravity 1.074 
Terminal Gravity 1.020 
Color 13.65 SRM 
Bitterness 24.2 IBU 
Alcohol (%volume) 7.1 % 


as for commercial varieties, apart from the usual suspects aventinus and pikantus, weihenstephan vitus has been turning up lately at camperdown cellars - a nice example of a paler and lighter-bodied weizenbock.


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## Whistlingjack (28/2/08)

I made a simple weizenbock that knocked me silly on New Year's Eve...

55% Weyermann pale wheat
35% Weyermann pilsner
10% CaraMunich III

OG 1.070

Hallertau at 90 mins and 15 mins to about 15IBU

Wyeast 3638 Bavarian wheat.

This beer was dangerous. At about 7.5%ABV and all those lovely esters and phenols, it was irresistible!

The best I've tried, though, comes from Dachsbru in Bavaria.
I had the pleasure of meeting one of the brewers in Berlin on our "bock night". He brought some samples of his product.

WJ


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## Stuster (28/2/08)

Some good looking recipes there. And so different. NM, your recipe is much lighter in colour than the other ones, and probably more like the colour of Oldbugman's. A run of different weizenbocks? :icon_drool2: :icon_drunk:


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## oldbugman (28/2/08)

Well here is the one stu is talking about, and was forced to drink a few mugs at an ISB day. It was brewed before the AHB sydney pubcrawl 07. It was my first no chill beer and picked up a 2nd at bathurst, 1st at state, 3rd at nationals. The yeast was pitched straight from the vial, no starter built. OG of 1.080 FG of 1.019, 8.1% in the keg, yummo.

It was very drinkable. I could down 3 or 4 glasses of it without feeling the effects, until I stood up. I'll definatly be making this one again possibly with slight tweaks.




```
Darth Weizen



A ProMash Recipe Report



BJCP Style and Style Guidelines

-------------------------------



15-C  German Wheat and Rye Beer, Weizenbock



Min OG:  1.064   Max OG:  1.096

Min IBU:	15   Max IBU:	30

Min Clr:	12   Max Clr:	25  Color in SRM, Lovibond



Recipe Specifics

----------------



Batch Size (L):		  21.50	Wort Size (L):	 21.50

Total Grain (kg):		 7.18

Anticipated OG:		  1.080	Plato:			 19.27

Anticipated SRM:		  14.6

Anticipated IBU:		  28.1

Brewhouse Efficiency:	   75 %

Wort Boil Time:			 60	Minutes



Pre-Boil Amounts

----------------



Evaporation Rate:	  16.00	Percent Per Hour

Pre-Boil Wort Size:   25.60	L

Pre-Boil Gravity:	  1.067	SG		  16.36  Plato



Formulas Used

-------------





Color Formula Used:   Morey

Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager







Grain/Extract/Sugar



   %	 Amount	 Name						  Origin		Potential SRM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 55.7	 4.00 kg.  JW Wheat Malt				 Australia		1.039	  2

 21.7	 1.56 kg.  Pilsener					  Germany		1.038	  2

 17.0	 1.22 kg.  Munich Malt I				 Germany		1.037	  7

  3.6	 0.26 kg.  Caraaroma					Germany		1.034	150

  1.5	 0.11 kg.  Melanoidin Malt			   Germany		1.033	 30

  0.4	 0.03 kg.  Chocolate Malt				America		1.029	350



Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.





Hops



   Amount	 Name							  Form	Alpha  IBU  Boil Time

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 60.00 g.	 Hersbrucker					   Pellet   3.10  24.8  60 min.

 30.00 g.	 Hersbrucker					   Pellet   3.10   3.3  15 min.





Yeast

-----



White Labs WLP380 Hefeweizen IV Ale
```


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## neonmeate (28/2/08)

yeah i think it was much lighter than aventinus, but i liked it anyway. i shouldve used caramunich II or III at the same ratio , wouldve got a touch more dark fruity flavours too. i am not really a fan of chocolate malty weizenbocks though - IMO most "new world " weizenbocks i've tried (Limburg, Red Hill, Redoak, etc) have been specialty malt soup without enough melanoidins and real wheatiness.


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## Jye (29/2/08)

SAH said:


> Can you try and describe the flavour profile?
> 
> Cheers,
> Scott




Scott, here are a few notes I wrote down before our club meeting last night, maybe some of the guys that tried it last night will jump in with their impressions.

Aroma - Big clove hit from the use of wb06 and background warm alcohol. I like this yeast in dark wheaties and think the clove/tartness is just right if fermented low.

Flavour - Wheat flavour with slight chocolate and dark fruits. Balanced and no real bitterness, malty and smooth from suspended yeast.

Mouthfeel - Medium body and feels very creamy, this is could be due to low carbonation for style. Warm alcohol that matches the aroma.

Overall - Would be nice to have a touch of vanilla but I am still greatly enjoying this beer.


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## tangent (29/2/08)

you guys are all using pale wheat malt. Try some dark malted wheat, choc wheat and caramel wheat. (see Craftbrewer)


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## tangent (29/2/08)

HE-111


Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	MCU	When
German Dark Wheat Malt 4.000 kg 53.7 % 7.0 In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 3.000 kg 40.3 % 4.4 In Mash/Steeped
German Caramel Wheat Malt 0.250 kg 3.4 % 3.0 In Mash/Steeped
German Chocolate Wheat Malt 0.200 kg 2.7 % 20.2 In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	IBU	Form	When
German Tettnang 3.9 % 50 g 16.7 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 3.9 % 28 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops At turn off
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 3.9 % 13 g 0.0 Loose Whole Hops At turn off

Yeast
WB-06

This is my dunkleweizen but you get the idea. No pils is this baby


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## Jye (29/2/08)

:icon_offtopic: 

Has anyone taken this to the next level and made a weizen eisbock? :icon_drool2:


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## Lukes (29/2/08)

Just a quick note for this style.
Never get into a drinking game with friends, steins and a keg of Weizenbock on a sunny day.






I was legless after 2-3 steins and whoever said "you don't get hangovers from home brew" you are so so so wrong....


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## oldbugman (29/2/08)

yummy...

muddy brown goodness in a stein


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## blackbock (1/3/08)

Lukes said:


> whoever said "you don't get hangovers from home brew" you are so so so wrong....



I'll second that. Weizenbocks are deadly.


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## Fatgodzilla (1/3/08)

tangent said:


> HE-111
> 
> 
> Fermentables
> ...




Just for the record, how much wort went into the fermenter - 30 or so litres?


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## tangent (1/3/08)

I think about 26L


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## Muggus (1/3/08)

One of my favourite styles for sure. :beerbang: 



Had two of these Aventinus's at the Schneider brewpub/resturant in Munich earlier this year...my god its easy to drink and hits you like a brick!

Has anyone had an aged bottle of weizenbock by chance? 
I've got a few bottles of a batch I brewed in 2006 lying around, and from memory they've aged quite nicely.


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## Weizguy (1/3/08)

Jye said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> Has anyone taken this to the next level and made a weizen eisbock?


Thanks for the reminder, Jye.

I have lined up the fridge of a fellow brewer who made an accidental Eisbock, so we know we have a fridge that'll do the job.

Maybe for the next NSW Christmas case swap. I just need to get a heap more 500ml bottles. I know the standard is 750ml for a case swap, but if it's concentrated to 2/3 volume, I see 500ml as the right size. Case swappers could dilute it back to 750ml if they want to whinge about volume. :lol: 
I reckon that 1/2 a litre of 12% wheat ale will do the job for anyone, even if they were weaned on Ruination IPA. :icon_cheers: 

I think it's important to remember to calculate the bitterness for the final volume (after removal of the frozen water), or you'll end up with a beer that's 1.5 times the bitterness (if concentrated to 2/3 volume). An unbalanced Eisbock is not a good thing, I'd imagine.

I trust this is not too off-topic...???

Les out


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## Jye (1/3/08)

Les the Weizguy said:


> I think it's important to remember to calculate the bitterness for the final volume (after removal of the frozen water), or you'll end up with a beer that's 1.5 times the bitterness (if concentrated to 2/3 volume). An unbalanced Eisbock is not a good thing, I'd imagine.



Good call on the bitterness, I guess if you brewed a weizenbock with bitterness at the low end of the scale then after freezing you should be right in the middle for style.

I should be brewing mine in the next few months, just in time for winter


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## winkle (1/3/08)

Jye,
keep me a taster of it please  
You've also got me tweaking my weizenbock recipe - I really like the look of Jamils recipe/beer :icon_drool2:


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## brendanos (1/3/08)

In the spirit of this thread, (and because we've run out of aventinus at my work) I'm going to brew one of these tomorrow.

Waiting for confirmation from oh_its_brad regarding the recipe, but I'm thinking about...

3kg Weyermann Wheat
2.5kg Weyermann Dark Wheat
3.2kg Weyermann Vienna
0.4kg Weyermann Dark Munich
0.2kg Weyermann Carafa I
0.2kg Weyermann CaraMunich II
0.15kg Weyermann CaraMunich III

1.074 in 25L at 65% Eff

Fermenting with Wyeast Can/Belg (Unibroue) at 18-19C

Bittered with something noble to 23IBU's

And having read a recent issue of BYO we're going to try a double mash. Exciting!


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## Jye (1/3/08)

winkle said:


> keep me a taster of it please



Should still have some around for the case swap :beer:


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## winkle (2/3/08)

OK here is the revamped recipe I've come up with-


Drunken Weasel 
Weizenbock 


Type: All Grain
Date: 22/08/07 
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Perry Burt 
Boil Size: 28.62 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Wheat Malt, 60.6 % 
2.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale 30.3 % 
0.25 kg Pale Chocolate Malt 3.0 % 
0.25 kg Munich Malt - 20L 3.0 % 
0.15 kg Caramunich lII 1.8 % 
0.10 kg Melanoiden Malt 1.2 % 
25.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 16.5 IBU 
10.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 6.6 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs WB-06 (DCL) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.079 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.062 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 % 
Bitterness: 23.1 IBU Calories: 576 cal/l 
Est Color: 21.5 SRM


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## brendanos (5/3/08)

Recipe we actually brewed was more like...

5.4kg Weyermann Wheat
3.2kg Weyermann Vienna
0.5kg Weyermann Dark Munich
0.2kg Weyermann Carafa I
0.2kg Weyermann CaraMunich II
0.15kg Weyermann CaraMunich III

Ended up way low on efficiency (~55%) due most probably due to our first attempt at an iterated mash, but I'd like to shift the blame onto the whordes of little black ant like bugs that were snacking on our grain.
Bittered to about 25IBU with Hallertau, hopefully not too noticeable considering the gravity was a measly 1.064 in 23L. :S


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## kabooby (15/8/08)

Having an Aventinus Weizen Eisbock tonight.

Far out what a beer. I have been having a few beer this afternoon and thought I would have this as a night cap. @12% abv i am certainly feeling it and only half way through the glass.

I have to make one of these :beerbang: 

This beer has made it into my top 5. What a great beer

Kabooby :icon_cheers:


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## puffer_pics (5/11/08)

So what yeast would you use in this style what is the best suited? I am thinking about making one of these for my first Wheat beer and i am unsure what to use, I was loosely basing my recipe on Jamil's Weizenbock from his achieve. What yeast have you had success with, Liquid better or dried ? Does this matter ?


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## kabooby (5/11/08)

Colin said:


> So what yeast would you use in this style what is the best suited? I am thinking about making one of these for my first Wheat beer and i am unsure what to use, I was loosely basing my recipe on Jamil's Weizenbock from his achieve. What yeast have you had success with, Liquid better or dried ? Does this matter ?



I have found WLP300 to be a good yeast for weizens. I find it gets much better results fermented cooler around 18C. Especially if brewing a strong beer like a weizenbock. You dont want to get hot alcohol flavours.

Kabooby


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## white.grant (5/11/08)

Colin said:


> So what yeast would you use in this style what is the best suited? I am thinking about making one of these for my first Wheat beer and i am unsure what to use, I was loosely basing my recipe on Jamil's Weizenbock from his achieve. What yeast have you had success with, Liquid better or dried ? Does this matter ?



Hi Colin,

I'm with Kaboody and a liquid yeast is essential for a weizen, you just don't get the ester profile from dried yeasts, my personal preference is Wyeast 3068 at about 17deg.

I'd also recommend not doing a weizenbock as your first weizen. Better , I think to start with a simpler mash and do a hefeweizen and work up through dunkel so you understand what is going on and what to expect. Depending on your system the wheat load may or may not be a PITA, but weizenbocks are a _big _beer and its a lot of grain to worry about if the glue hits your sparge!

cheers

grant


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## mika (13/6/09)

More a yeast question, but associated with a Weizenbock. I've currently got a Dunkel Weizen fermenting, probably be ready to come off the yeast at the end of the week, but I'm not going to be able to brew until at least the week after. Was trying to decide whether it would be better to keep the yeast for a week, or to fire up another starter. According to Mr Malty I need ~4L of starter.


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## Stuster (13/6/09)

Should be fine for a week, no problems with using the slurry if you keep it in the fridge. Mmmm, weizenbock.


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## mika (13/6/09)

Yeah, just wondered whether the wheat yeast would flunk out after 2wks of fermenting a Dunkel Weizen and then 1wk in the jar in the fridge.
Oh well, I'll put it to the real world test in a week or two.


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## drsmurto (4/2/11)

Brewing my 100th AG on the weekend and am planning a weizenbock of sorts.

Here's what i have come up with, hoping for some comments.

3.50 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 43.76 % 
2.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 25.00 % 
2.00 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 25.00 % 
0.25 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (Weyermann) (115.0 EBC) Grain 3.13 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 3.13 % 
40.00 gm Perle [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 26.2 IBU 
WLP300 Hefeweizen 

20L
OG 1.071
IBU 26
EBC 48

50/63/78 mash schedule. Decoctions if i am motivated.

Using the yeastcake from a roggenbier i am currently drinking.


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## blackbock (23/2/11)

DrSmurto said:


> Brewing my 100th AG on the weekend and am planning a weizenbock of sorts.
> 
> Here's what i have come up with, hoping for some comments.
> 
> ...




Hi Dr Smurto,
How did that one go? I think it would be too sweet even for my taste..

I am thinking of revisiting the old Weizenbock recipe real soon now that the nights have started to cool down.
This is one beer style that I enjoy a bit of 'bubblegum' flavour in, it is probably the one beer style that I would 
choose to add dried extract (maybe 250g) into, just to leave some residual sweetness.

Prost!


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## drsmurto (25/2/11)

blackbock said:


> Hi Dr Smurto,
> How did that one go? I think it would be too sweet even for my taste..
> 
> I am thinking of revisiting the old Weizenbock recipe real soon now that the nights have started to cool down.
> ...



SG down to 1.016 from 1.066 (75% attenuation) and have moved it to the conditioning fridge for a few weeks before i bottle it.

Doesn't taste sweet to my taste and i am not a fan of sweet beers. Plenty of spicy rye character as well as clove and banana from the yeast.

I wouldn't add extract, that _would_ make it sweet.


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## MaestroMatt (21/5/12)

Looking to brew a Weizenbock this weekend and wanted seek peoples impressions on using Dark Wheat over plain Pale Wheat...

Anyone have an opinion on either? How did it affect the flavour profile?

My recipe is pretty much Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles Weizenbock recipe word for word.


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## dmcke109 (21/5/12)

I've done this beer style before. BIAB. Using a recipe from Anthony at Craftbrewer. It used the dark wheat instead of pale. All the guys that had a sample of the AG beer thought that it tasted great. One even compared it to Aventinus - he was prob on his his third glass by that stage of an 8% beer though :icon_cheers: 



MaestroMatt said:


> Looking to brew a Weizenbock this weekend and wanted seek peoples impressions on using Dark Wheat over plain Pale Wheat...
> 
> Anyone have an opinion on either? How did it affect the flavour profile?
> 
> My recipe is pretty much Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles Weizenbock recipe word for word.


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