# Yeast Nutrient.....



## homebrewworld.com (14/2/06)

Can anyone tell me the pros and cons of using a yeast nutrient in a fermenter or culturing/stri plating yeast ?
Reading the manufacturers websites is just one hell of a sales pitch !

I was given some by a brewer buddy and i was going to put a dash in my fermenter when i thought.......hm ' what says this stuff is not full of bacteria ? "
So i left it out.
I still the nutrient in the fridge,but i am not game to use it.

Cheers
:blink:


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## Hopsta (14/2/06)

From what i have read, zinc is the main nutrient in "yeast nutrient" products apparently it helps bring about a more vigorous fermentation which helps with better flavours. I once bought a packet of white labs Servomyces which are yeast cells that have been fed loads of zinc then the yeast cells are dried (im sure theres more to this process) and put into a capsule. I dont reckon there was any significant difference in fermentation or taste between the batches that did and didnt contain servomyces. On another occasion i used some packet yeast nutrient (cant remember the brand but it looked the same as the nutrient packets you find under coopers/morgan ginger beer kits) in a starter of trappist rochfort yeast that i was culturing the starter was very slow to begin with but once i added the nutrient it built up very rapidly. I dont think you should worry about bacteria from using yeast nutrients though.


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## Batz (14/2/06)

I tried some that was given to me (cheers Tidalpete) and as Hopsta did I used it in a starter.
Very good results , often add it to my starters now .

Batz


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## tangent (14/2/06)

anyone use DAP?


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## Darren (14/2/06)

Adelaide water probably has plenty of zinc in it so I have resisted using it. Just one more thing to remember to do 8(


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## pint of lager (14/2/06)

Zinc is one important micronutrient that yeast need. Australian soils are low in this element (as well as others.) Too much zinc is actually toxic so do not rush out and add a stack of zinc to your brews. Alot of the micronutrients end up tied up in hot and cold break and lost to the wort for yeast to utilise.

I was using a zinc supplement added to a brew, half a tablet to a 23 litre brew and a scrape in my starters. Then I purchased some of the wyeast nutrient. It is boiled seperately in a saucepan and added straight to the fermenter, rather than the boiler. This way it doesn't end up in the hot and cold break.

DAP is diamonium sulphate and is only one part of what yeast need.

The most important time to use the correct amount of nutrient is in starters.

"Healthy parents make healthy children."


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## recharge (14/2/06)

I used to use DAP in wine brews but now use a product called ENOVIT mainly cause i got a 50kg bag really really cheap. Never used any in beer though.

:beer: 

Richard


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## MHB (14/2/06)

There are 2 products often sold as yeast nutrients:-

DAP
Di Ammonium Phosphate, think of it as super phosphate for yeast (not 100% right but close enough)

Vitamon Ultra (trademark) type products
Yeast hulls, DAP, trace elements B1, everything for a thriving generation of new yeasties, and beasties. The manufacturer recommends using all of the product within a couple of days of opening the pack the smallest quantity on offer is a 1 Kg vack-pack so I buy a 1 Kg brick and keep it in the deep freezer.
After I have boiled up my malt, allowed it to settle, rack off most of the trub add Vitamon and re boil for about 10 minutes to sterilise.
Cool in a fridge or freezer to pitching temperature, oxygenate and pitch the yeast.

This stuff stinks but it really gives the yeast a boot along. I like the way Pint of Lager put it, its all about creating a healthy starter, once in the brew they can look after themselves.

MHB


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## warrenlw63 (14/2/06)

My approach is probably too simplistic but it's sort free and practical.

When I make my first generation starter. I usually add a 1/4 of a teaspoon of that neglected dried yeast sachet from the beer kit that sits in the fridge and never gets used.

I just boil it for 15-20 mins with the starter. Mentality being that the yeast hulls would have to help some way. No real proof but the starters seem to fire nicely.

Warren -


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## recharge (14/2/06)

> Vitamon Ultra (trademark) type products
> Yeast hulls, DAP, trace elements B1, everything for a thriving generation of new yeasties, and beasties. The manufacturer recommends using all of the product within a couple of days of opening the pack the smallest quantity on offer is a 1 Kg vack-pack so I buy a 1 Kg brick and keep it in the deep freezer.



This is pretty much the same as enovit but it never mentioned using it all in a week. It came in a big thick rubbery plastic bag. But @ $25 for 50kg bag i can't complain. I mainly use it for fermenting clear alcobase washes instead of buying turbo products.

:beer: 

Richard


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## Ross (15/2/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> My approach is probably too simplistic but it's sort free and practical.
> 
> When I make my first generation starter. I usually add a 1/4 of a teaspoon of that neglected dried yeast sachet from the beer kit that sits in the fridge and never gets used.
> 
> ...



Warren, i useed to do the same & added the balance to the main wort, 10 mins before boil end - ran out of dried yeast though & at the time never thought of using yeast slurry instead, so bought the wyeast nutrient. This appears to work really well. Without it I get under attenuated beers, which I guess is because I'm on tank water, which has little mineral content.

cheers Ross


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## warrenlw63 (15/2/06)

Ross

That's funny with me, although I'm generally not a dried yeast user I've always got plenty in stock. Reason being I usually buy generic can kits to make starters. (These don't effect the finished beer because I pour off the fermented starter before pitching to the main wort).

So the yeast that sits under the lid usually gets tossed in the fridge. Average starter only requires 1/4 of a teaspoon. So basically the crappy dried kit yeasts don't really get wasted.  

I guess the yeast nutrient would have to be the better situation though. It's got the trace elements etc.

Warren -


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## Aaron (15/2/06)

I also use dried yeast. However, I get the 280gm tube style pack of "Lowan" bakers yeast from the super market. Just sprinkle a little in and I have enough to last me a long time.


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## tangent (15/2/06)

> Adelaide water probably has plenty of zinc


i'm using rainwater but it's been stored in a galv tank so i'm thinking it's still got a zinc content.


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## pint of lager (15/2/06)

Tangent, are you sure the water is in contact with the gal coating in the tank? Most of the recent tanks made actually have a thin film of plastic in them.

Our roof is zincalume, and like you, I thought that would be fine for zinc content in my brews, but from doing alot of reading, many of the micronutrients end up combining with the hot and cold break and being lost to the ferment process.

So that is why I add extra nutrients in the form of wyeast product by boiling it on the stove in some water and adding straight to the fermenter rather than chucking it in the boiler.


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## Ross (15/2/06)

pint of lager said:


> Our roof is zincalume, and like you, I thought that would be fine for zinc content in my brews, but from doing alot of reading, many of the micronutrients end up combining with the hot and cold break and being lost to the ferment process.
> 
> So that is why I add extra nutrients in the form of wyeast product by boiling it on the stove in some water and adding straight to the fermenter rather than chucking it in the boiler.
> [post="108711"][/post]​



Thanks POL - I've been adding to the boil in the kettle - reckon I'll switch to your method from my next brew - makes far more sense...

cheers Ross


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## tangent (15/2/06)

I can't see the difference between adding at the end of the boil or boiling on a stove?

edit - "lost to the ferment process." isn't that why we're adding nutrients? So the yeasties can use them during the ferment?
I'm confused...... :huh:


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## pint of lager (15/2/06)

During the boil and during the chill process, much of the dissolved minerals become bound to protiens that come out of solution and end up as hot and cold break. 

So if you add your nutrients to the boiler, they may be lost and become expensive hot and cold break that is removed from the wort and unavalaible to be used during the ferment. Even if you leave the hot and cold break in the fermenter, it is doubtful that the yeast would be able to utilise it from the break material.

Leaving the hot and cold break in the fermenter is bad practice. from reading HBD, the optimum was 0% hot break and 10% cold break left in the fermenter.

This is why I boil my nutrient up and add it at the same time as I pitch the yeast, rather than losing it to the hot and cold break.


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## tangent (15/2/06)

thanks POL
while you're here, what're the detriments of leaving more trub in the fermenter?
i guessed that because of calcium falling out of the solution in the boil that a little gunge transferred to the fermenter would contain extra nutrients for the yeast as well as extra hop contact???

edit - extra ?????'s and spelling


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## berapnopod (16/2/06)

HBW, yeast nutrient is a useful addition to beer.

Sometimes.

The reason it is useful is that you have to think of yeast as living creatures, just like you and me. So live, they need to eat. But to be healthy, they need to eat right. If I eat maccas all the time, I will get all the energy I need but I will not be healthy. If you eat a balanced diet, you will be much fitter than me and able to do more stuff.

Usually the trace elements in wort from the grains and hops are enough for a balanced diet and healthy yeast. But when you put the yeast under more stress, they need a little help. In this context, stress is usually higher gravity wort. So for anything under 1.050, its not necessary to add yeast nutrient to wort. But if you want to do a barleywine, its an important step. Another circumstance when you might need nutrients is if you make a beer with a high percentage of adjuncts, like a beer with lots of sugar, or lots of corn/rice. Sugar, corn and rice are just cheap sources of sugar, but don't have much in the way of nutrients, so you need to make up for whats missing.

The other place you should be using yeast nutrients is if you make yeast starters. When making a yeast starter, you're basically trying to get the yeast to multiply.
A lot. During multiplication, yeast need lots of trace elements because as they bud, its essential to keep their membranes fluid (so to speak). If they don't get enough nutrients, their membranes become leathery which obviously makes it harder for them to reproduce. So use yeast nutrient in starters.

So, whats gonna happen if you don't use nutrient? Well, as I said, for most typical gravities, its not a problem. But if you miss out on yeast nutrient in the other cases, the yeast tend to underattenuate, they produce more esters and more higher alcohols, which add a harsh hotness to your beer.

Sources of yeast nutrient: Things like comercial yeast nutrients are obviously the best source, but I to NOT class diammonium phosphate (DAP) in this. DAP doesn't have the trace elements the yeast need. As others have said, the main one appears to be zinc. Another good source of nutrient, as others have said, is dried yeast. Dried yeast have been fed excess nutrients so that not only are they healthy when freeze dried, but there is also sufficient left over to help them out when they start to get back into it. So if you boil some dry yeast up and add that to your starter/wort, it should work similarly to a commercial yeast nutrient.

Berp.


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## Lindsay Dive (17/2/06)

I'm a huge fan of Servomyces.
I have been using it for about two years now and I won't brew without it.
As far as diammonium phosphate is concerned, I reckon it went out with button up shoes!


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## bindi (17/2/06)

Lindsay Dive said:


> I'm a huge fan of Servomyces.
> I have been using it for about two years now and I won't brew without it.
> As far as diammonium phosphate is concerned, I reckon it went out with button up shoes!
> [post="109137"][/post]​


Link to Grumpys page last year
I remember reading about this last year


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## bindi (17/2/06)

forgot to add I like it also but I am out of it [and grains] at the moment.


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## Screwtop (17/2/06)

berapnopod: Great facts and explanation. 

My recent kits have been high in non-fermentables using extract, LME, DME and Dex, around the 1060 mark. However my first AG was 1063 and came down to 1013 in 5 days using US-56. AG would have consisted of less non-fermentables and US-56 would have included nutrient rich cells. For the higher non-fermentable extract bills maybe pitching larger colonies would help. Have recently started making large starters 4L, refrigerating after ferm is finished, then on brew day pour off the beer and pitch only the slurry into 2L of the wort. Two litres can be taken and cooled quickly, after re-activation I pitch this into the fermenter when the temp is down to around 26 deg. Last kit (1.7Kg hopped extract + 1.5Kg light unhopped extract + 500g DME + 300g Dex) using this method is motoring along and is down from 1060 to 1018 after 3 days using slurry from CSA recultured to 4 Litres.

Edit: typo


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## tangent (17/2/06)

> AG would have consisted of less non-fermentables


 hang on...
AG brews differ a hell of a lot depending on water to grain ratios and mash temps, schedules etc.
I would have thought a bag of DME with some dexy would be fairly high in fermentables due to the fact these have already had the starch-> sugar conversion in a commercial setting, not a back yard at 60 something % efficiency.


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## Lindsay Dive (17/2/06)

Have a look at this link

http://www.lallemand.com/Brewing/eng/PDFs/...A4%20juil03.pdf


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## Screwtop (17/2/06)

tangent said:


> > AG would have consisted of less non-fermentables
> 
> 
> hang on...
> ...




Correct me if I am wrong, for a given volume AG less non-fermentables than extracts. No experience here only written info. Maybe my choice of terminology was incorrect, fermentability might have been a better choice, ie Coopers Light Extract 64% fermentability (Ray Daniels "Designing Great Beers").


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