# Cooper's Vintage Ale Clone



## littlebrews (21/5/06)

The wife loves it. It would be most helpful to get her a clone for the CVA. She's happy...I brew more!!  Thanks.


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## Weizguy (21/5/06)

if U have/can get/are willing to steal/will have sex for a copy of the Wheeler and Protz CAMRA book "Brew your own Real Ale @ home", there is a recipe in there.

I believe that Jayse, on the Coopers forum asked for a few pointers to a Vintage Ale recipe, and was advised that the book contains a number of strong ale recipes including Big Genie from the Big Lamp Brewery.

Let us know how U go.

...oh, and some of the Coopers Vintage ales appear to be bottle-conditioned with yeast sediment, if U get my drift!

Seth


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## littlebrews (21/5/06)

Got your drift...will try to get the book. I think your methods of getting it are GREAT!! I'm not going to steal it though! h34r: 

Thanks.


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## Kai (22/5/06)

Just use the yeast from a coopers pale ale, not only is it fresher yeast but I suspect Vintage Ale may use a different strain at bottling.


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## T.D. (22/5/06)

I think the yeast could definitely "cap off" the perfect recipe, but its only a small component. The most important thing for re-creating this beer is probably the grain bill. I doubt there is a very complex hop schedule, but perhaps a late addition or two (as opposed to pale and sparkling).

Does anybody know if Vintage is listed on the famous "whiteboard" in Willie Simpsons's "Amber and Black"?


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## sinkas (22/5/06)

What happened to this beer,
why have they stopped selling ti, or is it just no longer sold in WA?


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## jayse (22/5/06)

Weizguy said:


> snipped>
> 
> I believe that Jayse, on the Coopers forum asked for a few pointers to a Vintage Ale recipe.........
> 
> [post="128148"][/post]​



Nope wasn't this little black duck.




sinkas said:


> What happened to this beer,
> why have they stopped selling ti, or is it just no longer sold in WA?
> [post="128194"][/post]​



I seem to have some vague memory of being told about this but have forgotten. Will try and chase up whats happening oneday this week.


Jayse


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## Trev (22/5/06)

Isn't this only produced every 2 years or so.

I remember the 2002 Vintage and last year I got a case of the 2004 which is now sitting in a cool, dark and dry place for another year or so.

Does this mean that the next lot we'll see will be the 2006 Vintage, available early next year?

Trev


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## Kai (22/5/06)

T.D. said:


> Does anybody know if Vintage is listed on the famous "whiteboard" in Willie Simpsons's "Amber and Black"?
> [post="128172"][/post]​



Copied verbatim:

vintage	6200 pale, 60 crystal (medium), 350 wheat

Just don't ask me to translate. Also remember they quite likely change the recipe every year, and this would be one of the original batches.


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## Jazman (22/5/06)

i tihknk i actualy asked coops ont he coops club a long time ago and i cant remember the beer to try but was something from camra book


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## BrissyBrew (23/5/06)

Ok so lets look at the grist profile
94% pale
1% crystal (medium),
5% wheat

You could estimate gravity to give you a beer of say 7% A/Vol

Now the things left answered.
Mash profile, I assume a single infusion. Rest temp? Length?
Hops? what do they use? IBUs?
Yeast, recultured coopers yeast.

Coopers Vintage 2001 is what got me into beer so it is a beer I would love to be able to clone.


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## littlebrews (23/5/06)

At my age, I thought I had accomplished my mission in life...now I have yet another mission. Looks like it may be bigger than life and twice as ugly.

The recreation of the CVA recipe...to clone and "prove" the results. :beer: 

Thanks guys!


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## T.D. (23/5/06)

BrissyBrew said:


> Ok so lets look at the grist profile
> 94% pale
> 1% crystal (medium),
> 5% wheat
> ...



So that's the grain bill that was on the whiteboard (thanks Kai). It just doesn't look dark enough does it??? I am presuming there is no sugar in the Vintage (although may be wrong), but from memory this is the same grain bill as Pale and Sparkling. Obviously the extra sugar in pale and sparkling would make them lighter in colour, so maybe that's enough, I just thought Vintage was quite a rich amber colour.


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## homekegger1 (23/5/06)

I know that Grumpy's do a very good stong ale kit. Requires about an hour of boiling if that is all you are after. Comes out at about 7.5% and was quite tasty.

It is an extrabrew call "Copy of Theakstons Old Perculiar" 

Hope this helps

HK


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## Kai (23/5/06)

BrissyBrew said:


> Ok so lets look at the grist profile
> 94% pale
> 1% crystal (medium),
> 5% wheat
> ...



I'd think it'd have sugar in there too.


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## Stuster (23/5/06)

Found this in an interview with Tim Cooper, here.



> Q. One beer we found particularly delicious in our recent visit was the Extra Strong Vintage Ale. Is this your creation as Chief Brewer and will Coopers continue to produce it? How would you describe it?
> 
> A. Extra Strong Vintage Ale is certainly one of the products I worked on with our team of brewers. We first produced our first Extra Strong Vintage Ale in 1998 and it sold out in five days. Subsequent vintages were produced in 1999, 2000, 2002 and 2004, which was probably the beer you tasted and the one I believe is our best to date.
> 
> ...



Gives some idea of the hops at least.


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## jayse (23/5/06)

I have a feeling the malt labeled medium malt in that old recipe is actually the old adelaide malting company's pale chocolate malt not crystal malt. It was around 500ebc.
The crystal malt from the old adelaide malting company i believe was quite dark, never saw or heard of a medium one from them.


Jayse


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## T.D. (23/5/06)

That would explain my concern about the colour not being right. Vintage is much darker than pale or sparkling in my opinion, yet they all have around 1% crystal. Doesn't seem to add up. Either the proportion of sugar in each brew is different or the "crystal" malt is different.


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## BrissyBrew (23/5/06)

barley and wheat malt and specially coloured malts, (ok so dark crystal which I have not brewed with any ideas about SRM and flavour profile)

Hops
Hersbrucker (aroma/bitting?)
Cascade (aroma/bitting?)
Pride of Ringwood hops. (bittering)

It was pitched with a double pitching of two yeast strains and underwent an extended primary fermentation. 
(my money is on one of the yeast strains being their stock standard coopers ale yeast, the other yeast no clue. English ale yeast?)

It was then pitched again with a specially nurtured yeast, which had been vitalised to enable longevity of bottle conditioning. Ok looks like a second infusion of yeast for bottling probably a higher alcohol tolerance, and fresh.


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## Weizguy (23/5/06)

sorry Jayse, it was probably Jazman who I recognised, and who asked Coopers brewer(s) about the Vintage on their forum. Considering that I read it a long time ago when I was young and nimble of wit, can I be forgiven for that small mental slip, in time?

The beer was definitely Old Genie from the Big Lamp brewery, with an OG of 1068 and 2 types of hops in 3 additions. I believe that this was a big hint from the brewer, namming this brew specifically.

Not wanting to breach copyright here ,but can PM the recipe if anyone really wants it.

Remember that Coopers change the recipe each year. For me the first Vintage was the absolute best. Great when young and better after 18 months. A little sad now, but still better than batch 2 or 3, which tastes a bit too roasty. Vertical tasting anyone? Maybe I should bring one or two to my BJCP group for evaluation?

Seth out


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## Adamt (28/7/06)

I'm looking to make an extract clone of vintage, obviously not an exact copy but a similar ale with some of the same characteristics.

Any suggestions of what types of extracts/yeast to use? What kind of IBU should I be aiming for?

Ta.


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## Mr Bond (29/7/06)

Adamt said:


> I'm looking to make an extract clone of vintage, obviously not an exact copy but a similar ale with some of the same characteristics.
> 
> Any suggestions of what types of extracts/yeast to use? What kind of IBU should I be aiming for?
> 
> Ta.



Linky


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## Adamt (29/7/06)

Thanks, it will be tried in the next month or so.


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## Cortez The Killer (18/1/07)

Did anyone have any success with making a Coopers Vintage clone?

Would you mind posting the recipe?

Cheers


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## braufrau (5/5/07)

This is based on the whiteboard malt formula and the hops Dr Tim mentions.
I added a little sugar. 
Guessed which order and how much the hops should be and just used coopers yeast,
not two strains and specially nutrient enhanced one for bottling. 

Critique please!

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: coopers vintage
Brewer: braufrau
Asst Brewer: 
Style: adelaide strong
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 13.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.073 SG
Estimated Color: 16.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.20 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 87.2 % 
0.35 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 4.9 % 
0.06 kg Chocolate Malt (500.0 EBC) Grain 0.8 % 
35.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.00%] (60 min) Hops 31.0 IBU 
11.0 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (15 min) Hops 1.1 IBU 
11.0 gm Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops - 
0.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 7.0 % 
1 Pkgs CSA Yeast Culture Yeast-Ale


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## drsmurto (29/5/08)

*BUMP*  

Had another bottle of the 1999 CVA on the weekend while camping. Must have had a dud bottle last time (or not cooled it down enough) cos this time i was very impressed how well it has survived the years. Has inspired me to brew something similar and put it down. Might have to crack open the case of 2000 and see how that is coming along.

So Braufrau, any reports on this? Did you brew it?

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## braufrau (29/5/08)

Noooo ... I didn't! 
Too many recipes .. not enough drinkers!


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## choppadoo (1/6/08)

Brewed this yesterday, pretty similar to braufraus recipe i guess;

84.5 % Ale Malt, Barrett Burston
7.7 % Dextrose
3.8 % Wheat Malt
3.2 % Crystal (Joe White) 
0.8 % Chocolate Malt (Joe White)
40.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.70%] (90 min) Hops 29.0 IBU 
50.00 gm Brewer's Gold [5.00%] (90 min) Hops 27.0 IBU 
30.00 gm Saaz [4.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops - 

1 Pkgs Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) Yeast-Ale 

56 IBU
1.076 SG

Bumped up the bitterness and used some different hops. Will probably dry hop with Saaz B flowers.
Will post on how it turns out in a couple of weeks.
Cheers,
Chops


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## Timmsy (15/12/08)

Ive been real keen on vintage for a while and wouldnt mind making something simalr. Did any of guys try any recipes and if so how did they go?


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## MHB (15/12/08)

This is a Kit version we worked up a couple of years ago, close to the version of Old Genie in Graham Wheelers book, works remarkably well if you give it 6 months in bottle (12 is even better).

Coopers Vintage
Brewcraft Imported English Bitter 1.8 Kg (50ish IBU, the recipe calls for 44 IBU)
Blackrock Amber Malt Extract 1.5 Kg
Morgans Dark Crystal Malt 1 Kg

Black Patent 1270 EBC 100g
Goldings Plug ~ 14g
Fuggle Plug ~14g
All simmered for 10 minutes, strain liquid to fermenter

Muntons Gold Yeast X 2

NB
If you are bottling for a long time I would seriously consider not adding any priming sugar, but at a maximum use the usual amount.

MHB


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## WSC (12/3/10)

Any more reports from people on how Vintage Ale clones have gone?


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## shacked (13/7/16)

Has anyone had an success with this? I've made the kit version 3 times and my brother-in-law loves it. I wanted to make an AG version and was looking at a grist like this:

6.000 kg Gladfield Ale (83.92%)
0.600 kg Cane Sugar (8.39%)
0.300 kg Wheat Malt (4.2%)
0.200 kg Crystal 80 (2.8%)
0.050 kg Carafa I malt (0.7%)

Which gives me specs of:


Original Gravity (OG): 1.072 (°P): 17.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (°P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 7.42 %
Colour (SRM): 13.5 (EBC): 26.6

For yeast, I'll either use WLP023 or WLP005 and hops will be some sort of mix of kiwi and aussie hops (maybe Ella and NZ Cascade)


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## peekaboo_jones (14/7/16)

Sounds pretty good, I'd research the use of more crystal malt. From what I've heard Coopers use a fair bit


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## fungrel (14/7/16)

Apparently, from a podcast I have been listening to, 2016 version uses "Astra" a new hop in development.


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