# Russian Imperial Stout Maturing Time



## Bribie G (21/9/11)

I'd bought in a heap of ingredients in case I needed to rebrew my dry stout for the Nats - this isn't now necessary  but I'm left with a shitload of "rich" malts such as Amber, Choc, Carafa, RB, flaked barley etc which I'll never use as I don't make a dry stout for my own quaffing list.

I've decided to do something new - brew and lay down a RIS for next years comps and wondering when it "peaks" - six months, one year, or does it just go on and on like a fine wine? - and if it should be matured in a stainless steel keg for most of its time, or bottle conditioned and matured as per wine? RIS is not a style I'm familiar with.


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## skippy (21/9/11)

I would mature in the bottle mate, for at least 6 months to 1 year. Iv'e just made 20L batch with OG SG 1.104, and it got to 1.023 just using one packet US05, fermemted at approx 20 C.


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## bradsbrew (21/9/11)

Bribie I would be letting it naturally carb in a spare keg and bottle off a few as well. The last big beer I made 13.5% failed to carb in the bottle. Two years on and it hasn't gone off as such but still no carb. It picked up a second at QABC last year I was going to try and force carb a bottle for this years comp but couldn't get my entries in on time due to work and family.

Cheers


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## Bribie G (21/9/11)

Thanks guys - I'll try and have two bob each way, of course with such a high gravity beer I'll not get a full keg off a 40L BIAB brew - _however _- I'll press Urnold and Urnest into the biggest brew of their lives and do a double batch, which may yield a keg plus a supply of bottled as well.
Any suggested recipes out there? I'd guess go more UK malts and hops.


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## raven19 (21/9/11)

Depends on the recipe Bribie also.

Some RIS's can be made to drink and enjoyed within a year. Others can taken many years to meld (such as the one we made at Phil's brew day - 20L batches with 1kg of roast barley in the grist!).


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## joshuahardie (22/9/11)

I did a RIS in May

It took at least 2 months for the flavours to round to become drinkable.
At the moment it is a nice after dinner sipper that I expect to become smoother as the months go on.

It still has only barely carbonated.

So I echo the force carb and bottle approach, and given my experience I would drink no earlier than 6 months.


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## newguy (22/9/11)

I've only brewed 1 RIS, but it was a really high test version. Super roasty, high gravity (over 1.100), high IBU. It took a good year to be "good" but it didn't become truly great until it was 2-3 years old. It's now 4ish years old and is still nectar. :icon_drool2: I bottled the entire batch but I intentionally didn't use oxygen barrier caps...I wanted oxygen ingress over time. A good friend brewed a similar RIS at about the same time but he used oxygen barrier caps on his bottles, and his version still tastes young even now.


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## drsmurto (22/9/11)

I brewed a RIS May last year and it spent almost 12 months maturing in a keg with a stave of american oak. Bottled it via CPBF. It's still young as far as a RIS goes but the oak flavour is lovely and i think this will be a stunner in years to come. 

My ferment schedule when it comes to big beers is 2-3 weeks primary, rack and then another 1-2 weeks at ferment temperature before conditioning them at 1C for weeks/months. I think it's very important to make sure the FG when bottling is really the FG and not just the yeast falling asleep on the job early. More so when bottle conditioning but still relevant when CPBF. 

Nothing worse than a highly carbonated RIS :icon_vomit:


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## Fatgodzilla (22/9/11)

DrSmurto said:


> I think it's very important to make sure the FG when bottling is really the FG and not just the yeast falling asleep on the job early. More so when bottle conditioning but still relevant when CPBF.
> 
> Nothing worse than a highly carbonated RIS :icon_vomit:



Was wondering if the failure to carbonate in the bottle as earlier cited as well as the "sleeping yeast" comment can be attributed to under pitching, remembering that the yeast has a lot of work to do.

Pitch a larger than normal yeast amount (is there such a thing as too much yeast) or look at putting fresh yeast into the ferment when thing slow? Any adverse effects anticipated with this second option?


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## newguy (22/9/11)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Was wondering if the failure to carbonate in the bottle as earlier cited as well as the "sleeping yeast" comment can be attributed to under pitching, remembering that the yeast has a lot of work to do.
> 
> Pitch a larger than normal yeast amount (is there such a thing as too much yeast) or look at putting fresh yeast into the ferment when thing slow? Any adverse effects anticipated with this second option?



With my ultra high gravity beers, I always pitch directly onto a 3rd generation yeast cake. This ensures that I don't have problems with the fermentation and the subsequent bottle grenades that produces. I also err on the safe side and use about 1/2 the normal amount of bottling sugar I'd use with a normal gravity beer. No issues so far.


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## drsmurto (22/9/11)

I'm with newguy - I always pitch my stronger gravity beers onto fresh yeastcakes. As long as you can control the ferment temp and not let it runaway and produce fusels. High sugar concentration and higher cell count produces more heat energy.


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## Bribie G (22/9/11)

As it happens I've got a W-1056 Golden Ale about ready to come off the yeast cake. Looks like tomorrow is the day :icon_cheers: 

Like the sound of the American Oak Stave :icon_drool2:


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## bradsbrew (22/9/11)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Was wondering if the failure to carbonate in the bottle as earlier cited as well as the "sleeping yeast" comment can be attributed to under pitching, remembering that the yeast has a lot of work to do.
> 
> Pitch a larger than normal yeast amount (is there such a thing as too much yeast) or look at putting fresh yeast into the ferment when thing slow? Any adverse effects anticipated with this second option?



You got me thinking there Ian but I used a yeast cake off 3787. It done the early work and attenuated well but shat its pants come bottle carb time. I thought the 13.5% plus carb% which would give 14% may have stressed the yeast too much. But as I said earlier it is a top drop, when I crack a bottle here and there.

Cheers


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## srcossens (23/9/11)

Bribie G said:


> Any suggested recipes out there? I'd guess go more UK malts and hops.



Bribie,

I've got three "old" recipes on hand. All have Brown malt in them though (13-18%). Two from Ron Pattison and very nice simple recipes, one is an 1850 Truman RIS and the other a 1914 Courage RIS. Both of these have black malt in them, but I suppose you could sub for the choc malt (I don't particularly like black malt). These were great after 6 months and were getting better after 1 year in the bottle. The third one is taken from notes in the Oxford brewing library, I think it's a 1937 Courage RIS, and it uses Amber (15.7%) as well as Brown malt (13.2%) and also invert no.2 sugar (17.6%).

The average hop in each are Fuggles, with one recipe using Styrian Goldings. The IBU's are 114, 64 and 70.

I think the Brown malt adds an extra complexity to the beer, but not always to everyone's liking. Brown malt is a love or hate relationship. If only we had of known that you were going to make a RIS when you were in Sydney, then I could have swapped the beer that you gave me for some brown malt (I have 3/4 sack).

Have a good brew day

Scott


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## Josh (23/9/11)

Bribie G said:


> Any suggested recipes out there? I'd guess go more UK malts and hops.



This was brewed in February this year. Placed 1st in the NSW Comp in August scoring 87/100.

William's Imperial Stout

4kg TF Maris Otter
600g JW Crystal
600g Roasted Barley
300g Brown Malt
300g Simpsons Dark Crystal
300g Chocolate Malt
67C mash
3g CaCl2 - mash
3g CaCO3 - mash

60g Pride of Ringwood 9.7% 60mins
46g Willamette 4.5% 10mins
46g Willamette 4.5% cube

3kg DME added in whirlpool

OG 1.105

WLP007 Dry English Ale yeast

I have over a case and a half I plan on trying over the coming months/years.


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## Bribie G (23/9/11)

Interesting use of the Amber, I've got 500g of Amber and it's supposed to be used very sparingly, but could be a goer for an Imperial as I don't have any Brown Malt. Also the use of the DME - a couple of years ago before I settled down and took notice of my betters, I entered the Bribie Toucan Coopers Stout headbanger in the ANHBC and it came just above mid-field  - I suppose when you get up into those strengths it's hard to tell which malt the fermentables come from and there are all manner of malts you can throw at it.


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## the_new_darren (23/9/11)

Having brewed a couple of RIS, I would say that the most important thing is to make sure that the ferment doesn't away, especially when pitching on a yeast cake!!

My first RIS went from 1.100 to 1.030 in 36 hrs. It had sentimental value (ie it took weeks of planning and a full days work) but NEVER really matured to what i was hoping.

The next I used only pitched about 1/2 cup in 30 litres of 1.100 wort @ 15C and aerated (swirled) @ 15hrs. The ferment was slower and less fuselly.

A Golden Ale can get by with some esters/fusels but a RIS can't!

cheers

the_new_darren


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## Bribie G (24/9/11)

I've collected a 750ml PET of Wy 1056 which has settled down to probably 500ml of solids, which doesn't seem too excessive, so I'll run that at below 18 and keep an eye on it like a hawk.


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## RdeVjun (24/9/11)

Watching this thread with no small interest Bribie G as I'm in much the same predicament with those sorts of ingredients myself, now that the ferment fridge is at ale temperatures it would be an opportune moment. :icon_cheers: 
Q. In view of the changes which are expected to take place during extended maturation, would it be sensible to skip PolyclarVT in this style? I realise clarity is largely moot, but I've been using it routinely in both dark and pale beers.

I've been keeping the neat 0.5cL European glass bottles for this sort of beer, I think 750ml a turn might be overdoing it. FWIW I did an in- between/ identity- challenged FES/ RIS about 18 months ago. Only the one solitary bottle remains, hope it still has shirt- lifting qualities... :icon_chickcheers:


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## bradsbrew (24/9/11)

RdeVjun said:


> Watching this thread with no small interest Bribie G as I'm in much the same predicament with those sorts of ingredients myself, now that the ferment fridge is at ale temperatures it would be an opportune moment. :icon_cheers:
> Q. In view of the changes which are expected to take place during extended maturation, would it be sensible to skip PolyclarVT in this style? I realise clarity is largely moot, but I've been using it routinely in both dark and pale beers.
> 
> I've been keeping the neat 0.5cL European glass bottles for this sort of beer, I think 750ml a turn might be overdoing it. FWIW I did an in- between/ identity- challenged FES/ RIS about 18 months ago. Only the one solitary bottle remains, hope it still has shirt- lifting qualities... :icon_chickcheers:




You might be able to finally use up that Aromatic malt Ralph. I reckon it would go well in big % in a big beer that gets to age. Hmmm might be time for a RIS.

Cheers


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## RdeVjun (24/9/11)

bradsbrew said:


> You might be able to finally use up that Aromatic malt Ralph. I reckon it would go well in big % in a big beer that gets to age. Hmmm might be time for a RIS.


Yep, well spotted brad- the remnants have been on death row just about long enough!  
I do like the look of Josh's recipe though, many thanks for that! I wouldn't have picked late Willamette for the style but IMO it is a really nice hop, the NZ flowers served me fairly well in the English IPA and I have a bit left.


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## bradsbrew (24/9/11)

Just about to mill the grain for this one. Thanks for the inspiration Bribie :icon_cheers: 

*Ris Sole* (Imperial Stout)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.095 (P): 22.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.024 (P): 6.1
Alcohol (ABV): 9.33 %
Colour (SRM): 63.4 (EBC): 124.9
Bitterness (IBU): 51.8 (Average)

48.48% Maris Otter Malt
24.24% Vienna
12.12% Roasted Barley
6.06% Chocolate, Pale
6.06% Flaked Oats
3.03% Crystal 90

2.4 g/L Aurora (10.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.2 g/L Styrian Golding (4.4% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 90 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 18C with wyeast 1768 cake


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


Cheers Brad


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## NickB (24/9/11)

Must be a Qld RISsy weekend....

I'm brewing one tomorrow - Here's mine.....

Mashing this twice tomorrow, taking the first runnings from each batch and combining into the RIS. Will adjust the sugar added depending on my OG. The second runnings will be combined to be (depending on gravity) either a porter or a Robust Porter.


Recipe: The Black Death 2
Style: 13F-Stout-Imperial Stout

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 33.00 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.00 l
Volume Transferred: 21.00 l
Final Batch Volume: 20.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.056 SG
Expected OG: 1.101 SG
Expected FG: 1.017 SG
Expected ABV: 11.3 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 78.8
Expected Color: 87.9 EBC
Apparent Attenuation: 82.0 %
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC

Fermentables
Australian BB Traditional Ale Malt 7.200 kg (79.6 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Roasted Barley 0.300 kg (3.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Black Malt 0.250 kg (2.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German CaraAroma 0.150 kg (1.7 %) In Mash/Steeped
Belgian Aromatic Malt 0.150 kg (1.7 %) In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 1.000 kg (11.0 %) Start Of Boil

Hops
Australian Super Pride (15.1 % alpha) 40 g Loose Pellet Hops used 90 Min From End
US Willamette (4.9 % alpha) 40 g Loose Pellet Hops used 30 Min From End

Other Ingredients
Gypsum 5 g used In Mash
Calcium Carbonate 5 g used In Mash
Koppafloc 2 g used In Boil

Yeast: Wyeast 1084-Irish Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (64C/147F 90mins)
Step: Rest at 64 degC for 90 mins

Note, the hops will only be added to the batch once.


Cheers!


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## RdeVjun (24/9/11)

Aye, saw that one Nick, love those gyles! :icon_cheers: TBH, NFI how I'll get the gravity up there at a reasonable brewlength for mine, could be stretching things with MaxiBIAB.
Tell me, do you boil, or at least bring to the boil the first batch first runnings while the second one is mashing?


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## NickB (24/9/11)

Will let you know tomorrow. Never done a Partigyle this way. Usually I do a double batch, then decide to throw another 30 odd Litres into the mash tun and make stupidly hoppy/bitter beer from that.

Hoping I'll hit or exceed my OG for the RIS tomorrow, and the second batch will be....something. Maybe even beer.

Cheers!


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## bradsbrew (25/9/11)

How did yours go Nick? I missed my OG by a fair bit because I forgot to change my mash eff. Still got 1080 and will dump some invert sugar into mid ferment. Not sure whether to go english or american with the yeast and dry hops. 

Cheers


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## NickB (25/9/11)

Still got 40 mins to go on the boil, but hit 1.080 Pre-boil (aiming for 1.056 apparently!), but thinking the twin mash definitely contributed. Hoping for an OG of around 1.100 or above, around 11.5%.

I went american hops and yeast last batch, will go 1084 and Willamette this time.

Second batch will likely be a robust porter. Gravity is still pending, however.

Cheers


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