# Keg Morality Question



## bartron (24/11/06)

A mate of mine has this really nice bar setup. Kegs downstairs and piped up to the bar (which is just off the HUGE home theatre setup.... :beerbang: )

Anyway....he buys kegs from the local liquor shop that stocks them..the 50l jobs. Problem is the guy that sells them doesn't want to take them back so my mate is getting a small collection of empty kegs in his garage. I've offered to fill one or two up with homebrew for him however these kegs have a label on the side....hand painted...of a small microbrewery.

now I know Lion Nathan and CUB get a bit shirty if someone nicks off with their kegs so I was wondering if these kegs are to be returned or not. I would imagine the local guy that stocked the brew would have been asked to collect empties by the brewery but he has said outright that he doesn't want them back.

Any thoughts?...I can't recall if the purchase of the beer included the cost of the keg as well...I can't imagine these things being cheap.

Bartron


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## fixa (24/11/06)

i'd keep them... if he doesn't want them back, what can you do? you can send them to me if you want


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## bartron (24/11/06)

fixa said:


> i'd keep them... if he doesn't want them back, what can you do? you can send them to me if you want



like fun :lol: 

I'd like to fill one up....would have to split the brew up though as I don't have a 50+l fermenter (not sure how that would turn out).

Alternatly I'd sell them off or swap for some cornys....the label on the side is a bugger...might come off with some scrubbing (looks like aerosol spraypaint)

Bartron


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## Steve (24/11/06)

bartron you know what I would do...I would contact the small microbrewery and explain that you have a load of his kegs and the place you bought them from doesnt want them back...be upfront - he may exchange them for a full keg for being honest? You never know unless you try. Failing that send me a PM and i'll help you mate shift a few h34r: 
Cheers
Steve


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## PostModern (24/11/06)

Contact the micro in question and ask if they'd like to collect them. The cost of the empty is worth more than the beer inside them. 

If you'd like the micro to stay in business, that is.


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## fixa (24/11/06)

bartron said:


> fixa said:
> 
> 
> > i'd keep them... if he doesn't want them back, what can you do? you can send them to me if you want
> ...



I've got a spare 50l fermenter.. maybe we could swap h34r: h34r:


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## devo (24/11/06)

I'd contact the micro, cause ya gotta help out the small players in the industry.


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## bartron (24/11/06)

PostModern said:


> Contact the micro in question and ask if they'd like to collect them. The cost of the empty is worth more than the beer inside them.
> 
> If you'd like the micro to stay in business, that is.






devo said:


> I'd contact the micro, cause ya gotta help out the small players in the industry.



I might do so.

I'll find out how much my mate paid for the beer. If it seems like he's paid for the keg as well then  otherwise I'll contact the brewery and see if they want them back.

knowing my luck the spraypaint is probably hiding something else though h34r: 

Bartron


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## hooky (24/11/06)

Honesty is the best policy.


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## bartron (24/11/06)

hooky said:


> Honesty is the best policy.



That it is.

Here's the situation. The brewery sells kegs through the local IGA (my mate actually called the brewery and they pointed him there). The guy that runs the IGA doesn't want to know about the empties so either 1) he has effectivly 'purchased' the keg or 2) the IGA guy is being a jerk....the brewery still sells beer through them though so we're leaning towards option 1.

He 'could' take the kegs back but he would be asking for some re-imbursement or something. No-one has come knocking on his door asking for them at least.

So while he has them in his posession he wants to try filling one with a non-alcoholic ginger beer. I'm assuming once the keg is cleaned out that he can just pour everything in and force carbonate (using a ginger beer kit)....would adding yeast and getting it to self-carbonate work or does that sound like a bad idea (sediment and all that).

thanks for all your opinions BTW. Any excess kegs, we'll call the brewery and see if they want to come collect them, otherwsie I'll let my mate know there are people here that would happily take them off his hands.

Bartron


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## T.D. (24/11/06)

bartron said:


> The guy that runs the IGA doesn't want to know about the empties so either 1) he has effectivly 'purchased' the keg or 2) the IGA guy is being a jerk....the brewery still sells beer through them though so we're leaning towards option 1.



I am much more inclined to go with option 2 I must say. These kegs are a significant investment for breweries and to my knowledge are NEVER sold as a package deal with the beer. I have no doubt that the micro legally owns the kegs and would be very keen to have them back.


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## Doogiechap (24/11/06)

I reckon do the righty !
In the very least, advise the micro that there are some of their kegs have been found and are avail for collection. Kep the micro's alive by returning their property ! Micro's are the main source of educating the masses that there is more to beer than XXXX/ Toohey's New/ VB etc.
Rant off h34r: 
Doug


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## browndog (25/11/06)

Do the right thing Bartron.......... Micros are not in the same league as the XXXX, Carlton. They could be blokes like you and me that are living the dream. Do the right thing.


cheers

Browndog


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## FNQ Bunyip (25/11/06)

do the right thing , ring the micro asap...

Its one thing to releve the multinationals of a keg or 2 ( compensation for the hangovers) but a small micro trying to do there best with a quilty product with huge overheads needs their kegs back. 

Its ezy to reuse a keg a couple of times then retrun it for proper serviceing and borrow another. If your mate is still buying kegged beer there should be no problems with them collecting the ones hes not reusing. 

If you want to use kegs for other purposes use multinationals..

cheers


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## InCider (25/11/06)

FNQ Bunyip said:


> If you want to use kegs for other purposes use multinationals..
> 
> cheers



I'm with FNQB, same goes for Milk Crates - the ones from the local dairy get left alone. But the multis have had a lot of custom for megaswill they owe some of us for really nasty preservative hangovers!


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## Lactobacillus (25/11/06)

If your going to steal a keg, then steal the bloody thing and stop trying to justify your actions with a f$%ked up sense of morality. I can see by this thread that most of the people here seem to think that stealing is essentially wrong unless you are stealing from someone you dont like, someone who makes a product you dont like, or someone who is richer than you. But good lord, man, dont steal from someone who makes a product you believe to be superior! Thats just plain wrong!


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## Weizguy (25/11/06)

just for my information, how much do you (or your friend) pay for a 50 litre keg from IGA?
What style of beer is it, and how do you tap the beer without, at least, CO2 and a pluto gun?

My opinion is to contact the microbrewery, and advise them that the store is not asking for the kegs back, and they can at least spray a message on to the kegs, requesting the consumer call them for collection once the keg is expired.

Are they stainless kegs, or the new enviro-recyclable plastic units? That will make a significant difference to what the suggested action should be, too.

Beerz
Seth out


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## jimmyjack (25/11/06)

if your gonna take some kegs, take the CUB ones there better :lol: Home brewers are a drop in the ocean with the massive increase of keg theft. At the end of the day someone has to suffer for decreasing margins and theft, usually its not the profit but the Australian work force.


Cheers,

JJ


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## Ross (25/11/06)

Barton, Makes no difference whether they are plastic, s/s or whatever - The keg has the owners name on it. 
If you do nothing it's STEALING, & there's no excuse for that, especially from a micro. Ring them & explain the situation & post here the response. Until then, stop trying to justify your claim to these kegs - there's really no discussion to be had.

cheers Ross


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## Weizguy (25/11/06)

Ross,

If it's plastic jobbie, they are (IIRC) non-returnable, and that's why I suggested that there may be a different course of action...

I just checked the Inventors ABC website and those are non-refillable, too. So it's prob not one of these.

Not that I condone theft (in fact, I abhor it), but the Ecokeg website mentions the following:
*What is the taxation depreciation rate for kegs in %? * _*37.50* _

Seems to me that if a brewery get 3 years from a keg, they have completely written down the value of it and they have already got their value from it. Yeah, I know that's a bit simplistic, but it's Saturday and my brain is having a weekend away from work.

Let the responses issue forth...

Seth


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## Ross (25/11/06)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Ross,
> 
> If it's plastic jobbie, they are (IIRC) non-returnable, and that's why I suggested that there may be a different course of action...
> 
> ...



Are these Eco kegs now on the market? - the manufacturer said he's email me as soon as he had a release date... i'll have to chase up if they are...

cheers Ross


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## Weizguy (25/11/06)

oh, I didn't see anything stating that the kegs are on the market yet.
Just the same website that has been there for the last 6 months or more.
Hope I didn't raise false hope.

Might be an idea to "bump" the manufacturer, as they may assume that you aren't a "big buyer" and not worth an email.... I've had that happen to me b4.
Best of luck and keep us all informed.

Beerz
Seth


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## colinw (25/11/06)

If someone could explain to me how something that is single use, non-refillable, gets labelled as "ECO"- anything, I would be grateful.

Just because someone says something is Eco friendly or green doesn't make it so. Like certain 'hybrid' vehicles which may use less petrol, but are so complex to manufacture that their environmental impact over the total lifecycle of the vehicle is still greater than most conventional small cars. A lot of 'green' marketing is a con-job.

Oh, and return the kegs. They are not your property. No gray area here.


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## redgums500 (25/11/06)

God what a bunch of boring, holier than thou, goody two shoes brewers we are this afternoon.  
Let the brewer that is Not in possesion of a "hot " keg cast the first stone!!! :super: 

Redgums
and i ain't throwing no stones


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## Lactobacillus (25/11/06)

I'm sure there are plenty of brewers out there who have not stolen a keg to use as a boiler. I know I haven't. I know several other brewers who haven't. Again, are we trying to justify our actions by sharing the blame amongst many. What is the saying? "Guilt divided is guilt shared"?

If you really must have a keg to use as a boiler, approach one of the pubs that sell imported beer on tap. They (at least several years back) used to purchase the beer AND the keg, then get the money for the keg back when they returned it. These days however, imported tap beer is probably not done direct from the brewery, but through a dedicated importer - but it may well be worth enquiring about. Then again, that seems an awful lot of effort to go to when you could just take what isn't yours. :blink: :blink: :blink:


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## normell (25/11/06)

redgums500 said:


> God what a bunch of boring, holier than thou, goody two shoes brewers we are this afternoon.
> Let the brewer that is Not in possesion of a "hot " keg cast the first stone!!! :super:
> 
> Redgums
> and i ain't throwing no stones


Concider that stone cast


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## Linz (25/11/06)

Got a f%$#@^king wheelbarrow


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## Whistlingjack (25/11/06)

The original post was about refilling kegs with your own brew. I can't see a problem with this, as long as the keg is not damaged in any way. 

The keg is "borrowed" from the owner (who obviously has no idea where it is) If he wants to reclaim it, he needs to contact his distributor who can then track it down.

Where in the purchase agreement does it state that the keg has to be returned? The purchaser attempted to return it but was knocked back.

IMO possession, being nine-tenths of the law, is the only issue.


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## browndog (25/11/06)

> The original post was about refilling kegs with your own brew. I can't see a problem with this, as long as the keg is not damaged in any way.
> 
> The keg is "borrowed" from the owner (who obviously has no idea where it is) If he wants to reclaim it, he needs to contact his distributor who can then track it down.
> 
> ...


If it is stolen, then is is stolen. Not very hard to work out at all.


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## Whistlingjack (25/11/06)

No one stole the keg. It was purchased legally, containing the product.

The retailer who sold the product was offered the empty keg but refused to take it.

So, I would believe the ownership belongs to the purchaser.


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/11/06)

Just wondering about the plastic cube thingy's that can be used to hold milk cartons in....


I dont want to give them back, cause than I wont have a brew stand.... h34r: 


I did mumble to myself that I would get around to returning them....but I havnt finished using them yet... B)


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## peas_and_corn (25/11/06)

Lactobacillus said:


> If your going to steal a keg, then steal the bloody thing and stop trying to justify your actions with a f$%ked up sense of morality. I can see by this thread that most of the people here seem to think that stealing is essentially wrong unless you are stealing from someone you dont like, someone who makes a product you dont like, or someone who is richer than you. But good lord, man, dont steal from someone who makes a product you believe to be superior! Thats just plain wrong!




Touche.




redgums500 said:


> God what a bunch of boring, holier than thou, goody two shoes brewers we are this afternoon.
> Let the brewer that is Not in possesion of a "hot " keg cast the first stone!!! :super:
> 
> Redgums
> and i ain't throwing no stones




I don't have any brewery kegs and I'm not a fan of people who steal them.




Whistlingjack said:


> No one stole the keg. It was purchased legally, containing the product.
> 
> The retailer who sold the product was offered the empty keg but refused to take it.
> 
> So, I would believe the ownership belongs to the purchaser.



Well, while you could claim that, the issue here is whether the bloke at the IGA has no idea what he's talking about. IGA orders from a DC, and I'm sure that it's the DC that's responsible for them, not the individual stores- and with any system such as that, communication and stock tracking is difficult. The worry is that the micro would obviously be running on slim margins (there have been threads in the past that have mentioned this) and the loss of a number of kegs would affect their bottom line greatly.


Give the micro a call, and find out what's going on.

Also- what micro is it?


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## Whistlingjack (25/11/06)

Just don't post a picture of your sculpture. 

Even if you block out the brand name, you will arouse suspicion as to how you acquired the said articles.

Don't assume that the guys who chase these items don't have access to the internet.


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## Whistlingjack (25/11/06)

Of course. The micro has stamped their name.

Offer to return the keg (as the OP has done), but at their convenience.

In the meantime, consider it your property, having paid for it.


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## T.D. (26/11/06)

Whistlingjack said:


> In the meantime, consider it your property, having paid for it.



But this is the thing, these kegs are NEVER the property of the purchaser. When you buy a keg of beer, you are buying the beer NOT the keg. The keg remains the property of the brewer no matter what. That's why they have "Remains the property of xyz brewery" stamped on the top. And I've also been told that any 3rd party use is also illegal. Of course, you would have to expect that a brewery would rather you use it for one batch of home brew and then return it to the brewery, rather than cut the top out of it! But either option is technically illegal. There are no two ways about it. I'm not telling anybody here what to do, that is up to them, but it really is a futile task trying to justify stealing kegs as if its above board.


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## bigfridge (26/11/06)

Ross said:


> Les the Weizguy said:
> 
> 
> > Ross,
> ...




Ross,

A brewery here in Newcastle is using them (or at least some other non-returnable plastic keg) to send beer to the US. No point shipping all that air back so these 'one way' kegs are ideal.

David


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## pharmaboy (26/11/06)

haha, love this thread, those that are so certain that it is illegal to be in the possession of a keg from CUB etc, would easily be able to point to a case where someone has been charged and convicted of such an offense.

If you buy a keg from a hotel and you dont sign an agreement for the purchase with relevant, "keg is owned by the brewery and must be returned clause", then there is no obligation between you and the brewery nor the retailer. Its a different case entirely if the keg you have in your possession was knicked out of the carpark of a hotel.

Receiving stolen goods is another area, but simply printing something on an item doesnt automatically confer a crime on anyone in possesion of it. Think of it this way, if the local milkbar gives you a milk crate to take home your goods, and you leave it in the garage, the retailer is the one guilty of a breach of contract or theft, not you - if the dairy company sees it, and says its theirs, you give it back, but you had no way of returning it, nor did you have a contract with them to be breached - now if the 'borrower' is dumb enough to say they knew it was 'stolen' - well, there you go.

As has been said, possesion is 9/10's, ie its the responsibilty of the alleged owner to prove ownership is order to get it back, and prove "intent" to recieve, plus prove theft - all too much - anyone having stuff stolen from their house and then finding it in a pawn shop will be well aware of the realities of how difficult this is.

and ring the micro brewery to return them anyway..


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## Lactobacillus (26/11/06)

pharmaboy said:


> haha, love this thread, those that are so certain that it is illegal to be in the possession of a keg from CUB etc, would easily be able to point to a case where someone has been charged and convicted of such an offense.


It is also illegal, under Australian Communications Authority (ACA) regulations, for your computers modem to pick up on the first ring. Can't easily point to a case where someone has been charged and convicted of it, even though it seems to happen often... still illegal, though.


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## Gulf Brewery (26/11/06)

Whistlingjack said:


> No one stole the keg. It was purchased legally, containing the product.
> 
> The retailer who sold the product was offered the empty keg but refused to take it.
> 
> So, I would believe the ownership belongs to the purchaser.



Whistlingjack

It is understood implicitly, that when any brewery supplies beer to a hotel, that they are paying for the contents, not the keg and that the keg remains the property of the brewery. I believe that the sale of the beer to the retailer would have the same conditions and the retailer is responsible for the return of the keg.

Pedro
PS Fair warning - if anyone "acquires" a Gulf Brewery keg, you do not own it, it belongs to the brewery.


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## Whistlingjack (26/11/06)

Just playing "devil's advocate" here. 

I think that the keg should be returned, but having made the effort without success, the guy must be be thinking they don't want it. If the micro is concerned about the effect the loss of this keg will have on the bottom line, then they should keep track of them.

The sale of goods for money I think is the same as entering a contract. The supplier gave the purchaser the implication, by not taking back the keg, that its cost was included in the price. 

Was there any notion of a deposit or were any instructions for the return of the keg given at the time of purchase?


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## T.D. (26/11/06)

pharmaboy said:


> If you buy a keg from a hotel and you dont sign an agreement for the purchase with relevant, "keg is owned by the brewery and must be returned clause", then there is no obligation between you and the brewery nor the retailer. Its a different case entirely if the keg you have in your possession was knicked out of the carpark of a hotel.



I want to make it clear that I frankly don't care what other people do with kegs etc, I am merely stating the facts.

It doesn't matter whether you "sign" anything, it is clearly stated on the keg itself that its always owned by the brewery no matter what. 

You are right that there is no obligation for you to return it, but there is an obligation for you not to cut the top out of it and use it as a brewing kettle, as it is simply not yours to do so. This cannot be disputed. 

These are tha facts. As I said, if you want to use a keg for your brewery, go for it, but there is simply NO WAY you can justify it as being legit. That's all I am saying...


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## bigfridge (26/11/06)

T.D. said:


> pharmaboy said:
> 
> 
> > If you buy a keg from a hotel and you dont sign an agreement for the purchase with relevant, "keg is owned by the brewery and must be returned clause", then there is no obligation between you and the brewery nor the retailer. Its a different case entirely if the keg you have in your possession was knicked out of the carpark of a hotel.
> ...



TD,

You are totally correct - the keg always remains the property of the brewery.

Also there is no way that anybody could think for one moment that the purchase price of a keg of beer includes the keg. A brewery makes about $50 profit on each 50 litre keg of beer sold, but a new keg costs $200 - $300 each. So they have to sell 6 kegs of beer just to cover the cost of the container.

Just doesn't add up.


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## Whistlingjack (26/11/06)

I don't think anyone talked about damaging the keg, merely refilling it with their own brew.

Bigfridge, the local micros just did a purchase of new 50litre kegs costing $95.00 each.

Edited: spelling


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## bigfridge (26/11/06)

Whistlingjack said:


> Bigfridge, the local micros just did a purchase of new 50litre kegs costing $95.00 each.



Wow - at this price I will take 2 shipping containers full (this is about 800 kegs).

Can you please get send me their details as I am very serious - this is about half price !

But I am not interested if they are not new or not 50 litre stainless steel units.


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## Whistlingjack (26/11/06)

Half of $300 is?

That's how much you'll get them for.


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## bartron (26/11/06)

Crikey,

Bugger off to Sydney for the weekend and look what happens.

For the record, there are no plans to damage, cut, modify or sacrifice to your diety of choice. Just looking to re-fill them. If the brewery wants them back then they know who to ask. One would think that selling keg after keg to th IGA and never getting any back might tweak some eyebrows at the brewers but I'm thinking that my mate is spending a good couple hundred on these things....maybe more..he likes boutique beer so he probably thinks it's worth it when in fact he is paying for the keg as well.

The brewery in question BTW is BlueTongue...if anyone on here is from there, come get the kegs.

I agree with not ripping anyone off, big or small. The big guys have plenty kegs to go around to it probably seems 'easier' to rip off from them. Plenty of people seem to be doing it though...it's a bit like milk crates and them wooden pallets (at one stage I lived in a share flat with a $2000 lounge suite....4 milk crates...$500 fine a pop).

Untill someone wonders where all these kegs are going then I'll fill em up for cheaper than my mate can buy them....one day someone will want them back, and that's ok.

Bartron


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## bigfridge (27/11/06)

bartron said:


> The brewery in question BTW is BlueTongue...if anyone on here is from there, come get the kegs.
> 
> ...
> 
> Untill someone wonders where all these kegs are going then I'll fill em up for cheaper than my mate can buy them....one day someone will want them back, and that's ok.




Bartron,

Blue Tongue is a local brewery of mine and real nice people as well. 

I have sent a PM with their contact details. If you could pass this onto your mate they would be more than happy to call and arrange for a pick-up to the brewery.

They were very thankful to hear that some of their lost kegs had been found and happy to bring them back home.


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## Ducatiboy stu (27/11/06)

It is the same with shopping trolleys, you are never the owner of one, even if you get a receipt to say you are....The supermarkets can be bastards and say that they still own the trolly cause they have their name on it...


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## winkle (27/11/06)

T.D. said:


> Whistlingjack said:
> 
> 
> > In the meantime, consider it your property, having paid for it.
> ...


At the risk of going OT, what is the status of a keg that states "Remains the property of Tooths Brewery" or some other defunct entity?


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## /// (27/11/06)

Keg loss is a burden for all - esp because of the pricing. Most breweries if they had ordered from the supplier will have a 'remains property of XYZ' stamped on the Chime.

At rates of 10-15% loss per year and 4-5 million kegs in a large commercial breweries float, at $180-200 odd to land and clear them it gets to be an expensive exercise.

The large guys will and do have folks charged with theft, its that simple. I guess its like a hire car, you pay for the petrol and the car is just the delivery mechanism...

Scotty


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## bigfridge (27/11/06)

winkle said:


> At the risk of going OT, what is the status of a keg that states "Remains the property of Tooths Brewery" or some other defunct entity?



I would expect that the keg remains the property of whoever bought the assets of the 'defunct' brewery ie the company that bought them and moved the production/brands elsewhere.

It the case of Tooths I guess that it would be either Lion Nathan or CUB.


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## /// (27/11/06)

It the case of Tooths I guess that it would be either Lion Nathan or CUB.
[/quote]

Theres a zillion Powers kegs still in the Market - CUB bought Powers and built Yattala. So the powers Kegs are CUB's.

Will have to look up in the Breweries of Australia, i am sure that Tooths is Lion. Cant remember...


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## kirem (27/11/06)

I have posted this recently and I will post it again. Fosters offers rewards to their employees to help recover lost kegs. I have attached the flyer;
View attachment 10252


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## Gerard_M (27/11/06)

OK so it is not like last Saturday night when me & a few mates got a cab home from the city.  Thought the fare was a bit pricey so we kept the taxi as we considered we had paid for it! :angry: 
Even though it says Premier Cabs on the side we thought $55 from The Cross to Eastwood was a bit steep :beerbang: 
Cheers
Gerard


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## Fingerlickin_B (27/11/06)

Gerard_M said:


> Thought the fare was a bit pricey so we kept the taxi as we considered we had paid for it!


 :lol: 

Oh and as for the kegs, give 'em back h34r: 

PZ.


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## KoNG (27/11/06)

kirem said:


> I have posted this recently and I will post it again. Fosters offers rewards to their employees to help recover lost kegs. I have attached the flyer;
> View attachment 10252



good to see they didnt highlight home brewers in the flyer. B)


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## Simon W (30/11/06)

On a similar note, and just for interest sake, the money you have in your wallet.... it's not yours!


Edit: oooh and two bad puns!


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## shotduck (30/11/06)

Simon W said:


> Edit: oooh and two bad puns!


Wheres that blasted groan emoticon? ? ? ?


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## bartron (30/11/06)

ok...contacted Blue Tonge and they are going to organise a pickup or something.

My mate originally paid $240 per keg (including the beer) and they are taking up space in his garage. I've given him contact details to make it all happen.

I'm supprised that the local IGA didn't want the know about the empties though...you'd think Blue Tongue would get a bit suss about all the missing kegs. Whenever he purchased them there wasn't anything to sign or something to say he had the kegs (or a security deposit or something)....he just bought the beer in 50l batches, no questions asked. Funny becasue Blue Tongue were the ones that said to go to that particular IGA to buy their brew.

Anyway...all sorted now and no-one is going to hell just yet. :beer: 

I'm now off to find out where to get some cheap cornies....that or I'm going shopping at the IGA h34r: 

Bartron


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## Keifer (30/11/06)

$240 per keg (including the beer)

Yeah bluetongue is nice, but ouch


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## Nickb167 (15/12/06)

/// said:


> Keg loss is a burden for all - esp because of the pricing. Most breweries if they had ordered from the supplier will have a 'remains property of XYZ' stamped on the Chime.
> 
> At rates of 10-15% loss per year and 4-5 million kegs in a large commercial breweries float, at $180-200 odd to land and clear them it gets to be an expensive exercise.
> 
> ...



i seriously doubt australian breweries keep 4-5 millions kegs in stock. That would mean with just lion nathan and cub there would almost be a keg for every 2 people in australia.


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## shotduck (15/12/06)

Nickb167 said:


> i seriously doubt australian breweries keep 4-5 millions kegs in stock. That would mean with just lion nathan and cub there would almost be a keg for every 2 people in australia.



Well we *are* a bunch of uncouth pissheads...


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## FNQ Bunyip (15/12/06)

I pay $ 185 for a coopers real or pale ale up here in FNQ . $240 is a bit on the high side but as its micro not totaly outrages... 

Glad that they are getting them back. 

Cheers


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## T.D. (15/12/06)

Given that BT beers are in 330ml bottles, a keg is a little over 6 cases. $240 works out to be about $38 per case. That's not bad compared to the price you would pay for the bottles. I have always been under the impression that there really isn't much of a saving to be had buying a keg rather than bottles.

And the coopers at $180 sounds heaps cheaper but given that their cases are 9L not 8L, buying a keg is equivalent to $33 per case - not a heap of difference really. I'd rather the coopers though I reckon! :chug:


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## bonj (15/12/06)

T.D. said:


> Given that BT beers are in 330ml bottles, a keg is a little over 6 cases. $240 works out to be about $38 per case. That's not bad compared to the price you would pay for the bottles. I have always been under the impression that there really isn't much of a saving to be had buying a keg rather than bottles.
> 
> And the coopers at $180 sounds heaps cheaper but given that their cases are 9L not 8L, buying a keg is equivalent to $33 per case - not a heap of difference really. I'd rather the coopers though I reckon! :chug:



The saving is going somewhere else. The tax on beer in containers over 48L (ie 50L kegs) is much lower than the tax on bottles. It was one of the concessions that the Liberals/Nationals made to the Democrats, to get the GST through the Senate.


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## /// (15/12/06)

Nickb167 said:


> i seriously doubt australian breweries keep 4-5 millions kegs in stock. That would mean with just lion nathan and cub there would almost be a keg for every 2 people in australia.



Not when for every keg on tap 3-4 are off being cleaned, awaiting to go on tap, in transit etc etc.

An order for 1 large aussie brewery for 300,000 kegs or 10% of thier stock recently was placed i do beleive...

Scotty


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## FNQ Bunyip (15/12/06)

T.D. said:


> And the coopers at $180 sounds heaps cheaper but given that their cases are 9L not 8L, buying a keg is equivalent to $33 per case - not a heap of difference really. I'd rather the coopers though I reckon! :chug:





* given that coopers is $46 a case up here its heaps * :beer:


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (5/7/07)

Check this out, Keg Brother is Watching You.


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## MVZOOM (5/7/07)

Vlad the Pale Aler said:


> Check this out, Keg Brother is Watching You.



Gawd. My three year old can create a more compelling presentation than that. :blink:


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## Kingy (5/7/07)

i honestly cant see the point in using someone elses property without approval especially if your going to cut the top of it. Imagine if someone was to do it to your property.


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## Darren (5/7/07)

bartron said:


> I'm now off to find out where to get some cheap cornies....that or I'm going shopping at the IGA h34r:
> 
> Bartron




Beware, All cornies have "Property of Coca Cola or Pepsi" stamped on them  

cheers

Darren


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## Thirsty Boy (5/7/07)

Nickb167 said:


> i seriously doubt australian breweries keep 4-5 millions kegs in stock. That would mean with just lion nathan and cub there would almost be a keg for every 2 people in australia.




Fosters' keg float is worth on the order of $400,000,000 and they lose a chunk of it every year to all sorts of stuff. Mainly theft for scrap metal.

To give you an idea of the volumes... At the Abbotsford brewery, if they start the day with a few thousand empty kegs in the yard... and no one brings back any empties... by early afternoon production stops to wait for some to come in

In a truly spectacular case of "borrowing" one year about 100 kegs were found being used to keep a jetty afloat on the Murray river. The decking of the jetty consisted of "borrowed" chep pallets and there were a number of milk crates attached that went into seats and benches etc. 

The deal is basically this... if its got a brewery's name stamped, etched or painted on it... its not yours, not even if you bought it from the scrap dealer or the tip, or your mate.... Unless you have a letter on official letter head, from the brewery that owns the brand name, saying that they sold it to you and that you are the legal owner. If you are buying a branded keg from someone, if they haven't got such a letter, then they have no right to sell you the kegs.

If you are talking "old style" 18 gallon kegs or casks or the sort of things that just aren't used anymore... then you're probably fine... but if its a modern Sanke style keg... then someone wants it back.

I'm not saying anything bad about those of you who choose not to send them home, dont really give a rats, but just so you know.


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## oldbugman (5/7/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> The deal is basically this... if its got a brewery's name stamped, etched or painted on it... its not yours, not even if you bought it from the scrap dealer or the tip, or your mate.... Unless you have a letter on official letter head, from the brewery that owns the brand name, saying that they sold it to you and that you are the legal owner. If you are buying a branded keg from someone, if they haven't got such a letter, then they have no right to sell you the kegs.




Imagine needing a letter from Holden saying the car with their name on it isn't theirs.


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## domonsura (5/7/07)

OldBugman said:


> Imagine needing a letter from Holden saying the car with their name on it isn't theirs.



:lol: I'd be in the shit then..... but I think we call those there things 'ownership papers'


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## Fents (6/7/07)

Its $150 - $180 for a 50Lt CUB Keg (Full) down here in melb, i'd happily pay an extra $60 for good beer.


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## troywhite (6/7/07)

hmmmm did someone re-salvage this thread?

well while it is back up.

Seeing that CUB are going to rort $20 - $30 million dollars more from their beer drinking clientle by reducing the alcohol content, I have suddenly lost the last of the minuscule "moral issue" I ever had with "borrowing" their kegs.

Troy


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## brettprevans (6/7/07)

I was under the impression that if a keg went missing from a hotel, then the hotel had to pay for it. e.g.
CUB delivers 30 kegs. end of wekk come to pick up empties but only 29 kegs left (1 has been borrowed). Then the hotel has to fork out cash for a missing keg.

I know a guy that 'borrowed' 5 kegs form a hotel after they wrongly dismissed him (his boss was doing the dodgy and he got the blame) without any pay in lieu). He was also under the impression that the hotel paid for them (or paid a fine at least) so he felt quite fine about borrowing the kegs and having the hotel pick up the tab. 

its a moot argument for me, I only K&K/extract atm, but if I want a keg/boiler I'm a decent backyard welder and can make one.


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## troywhite (6/7/07)

citymorgue2 said:


> I was under the impression that if a keg went missing from a hotel, then the hotel had to pay for it. e.g.
> CUB delivers 30 kegs. end of wekk come to pick up empties but only 29 kegs left (1 has been borrowed). Then the hotel has to fork out cash for a missing keg.



I'm sure that if that was the case, then the pubs, clubs would place the kegs somewhere where they are not an easy target for passer's by.

The fact that they just plonk them where any passing traffic can see/access them suggests that this is false.

I may be wrong though


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## brettprevans (6/7/07)

troywhite said:


> I'm sure that if that was the case, then the pubs, clubs would place the kegs somewhere where they are not an easy target for passer's by.
> 
> The fact that they just plonk them where any passing traffic can see/access them suggests that this is false.
> 
> I may be wrong though


All the suburban pubs around me either lock their kegs up (near the delivery area) or have them stashed away.

Be interesting to find out. Im sure a lot less people would 'borrow' them if they knew CUB etc paid for them and realised that increased costs emans increased prices of beer. Not that it matters too much to us HBrs


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## SpillsMostOfIt (6/7/07)

troywhite said:


> I'm sure that if that was the case, then the pubs, clubs would place the kegs somewhere where they are not an easy target for passer's by.
> 
> The fact that they just plonk them where any passing traffic can see/access them suggests that this is false.
> 
> I may be wrong though



So where should I be parking my car when it is not at my house?


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## domonsura (6/7/07)

It used to be the case that a pub/bottlo taking possession of a keg would included in the price of the keg pay a deposit or bond against the keg. Generally an account would be run, so until the premises stopped trading or a stoctake was taken, no discrepancy would be noticed. None the less, if you are 2 kegs out, you don't get your deposit back for those 2 kegs. A few years ago the deposit was $40 peg keg. In some cases supply of product would cease until the lost kegs were accounted/paid for, and I do know of one bottle store that was blacklisted by DB brewery and Lion Nathan because their keg losses were unacceptably high.
None of you _really_ believe that the brewery wouldn't charge _someone_ for the keg that was lost while in their possession do you? I mean - c'mon.....*of course* they charge establishments for losses.
Big businesses don't stay big by throwing their money away........


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