# The Gremlins Have Stolen My Saaz



## Bribie G (3/9/09)

I made my first Bohemian Pilsener back in June, dead simple: 

5000 Wey Bohemian Pilsener 
20 min protein rest 55 degrees
90 min sach rest 66 degrees

6 plugs Czech Saaz 90 mins
3 plugs Czech Saaz 15 mins

Wyeast Urquell

Nochill


I fermented it at around 12 for two weeks then lagered for a month, bottled in glass and made a decision not to touch a bottle until last week in August. It's a real disappointment, it's drinkable but tastes more like Tooheys extra dry, a bit of hop bitterness but no hop flavour or aroma whatsoever. I took a bottle to GravityGuru's brewday and Winkle had a glass as well, and we are wondering where the hell 130g of Saaz went to :huh: 

I can think of only two possibilities:


The nochill cube ate the hops
The plugs were crook (06 crop but they should have been ok?) Maybe I should have used pellets.
Anyone had their Saaz vanish on them like that?


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## crundle (3/9/09)

That sucks Bribie, at least with a kegging setup you can always add French Press hops to boost the aroma, but no such love with bottles.

I have had this happen with a Smurto's Golden Ale that was left in the keg for too long (how likely is that to ever happen though?), but more recently had the same thing happen with the smoke flavour in a Pale Ale I made for a swap - the thing was overpowering to my palate for about 4 weeks, then good for the swap night itself, but has been dropping off rapidly in the bottle as time goes by.....

Maybe the plugs were past their best?

Crundle


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## chappo1970 (3/9/09)

Bribie I suspect it was the age of the hops as they lose about 25% (IIRC) of their AA% & BA% over a year and that's if they are stored well. Considering they are 3 years old by my quick calculation they would only be 42% of their original AA% so if they were say 5%AA to start with they would have only been 2.1%AA by the time you brewed with them.

2c FWIW

Chap Chap


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## Bribie G (3/9/09)

They were labelled 2.5% AA probably in deference to their age. 
I'm cutting the beer with Oettinger  and quaffing my way gradually through it.


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## chappo1970 (3/9/09)

Err that's a possible 1.45%AA Bribie?

Must taste like VB :lol:


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## tdh (3/9/09)

Noble hops have a half life of about 20 minutes B) 

I wouldn't use them at all unless they were the current harvest and just landed.

tdh


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## .DJ. (3/9/09)

I have no idea but can an infection strip the flavour?


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## eamonnfoley (3/9/09)

I've heard that also about noble hops (half life). How effective is vacuum sealing ?


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## matti (3/9/09)

I've been in the same boat.
I resorted to put all the flavouring and aroma hop really late.

Were the plugs stored frozen or just in vacuum sealed bags?

my suggestion would be to bitter with Perle an shit load of SAAZ at flame out and in cube  
Keeping my fingers crossed for my dark lager :huh:


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## tdh (4/9/09)

I vacuum seal my hops and store in the freezer.

If I know what my next brews are going to be I break down my hop purchase to suit my brew calendar. Otherwise I have them in 50g and 100g vac sealed bags in the freezer.

tdh


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## georgebush (7/9/09)

Great work .. really informative .. and thanks a lot for sharing

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## RdeVjun (8/9/09)

You're not alone BribieG, I have had a similar experience with hops probably from the same batch. I've got a handful of plugs left and will toss them all into some tea, FWIW, and add it to the near- finishing primary. If that doesn't sharpen it up then I'll do the same again with something else, last thing I want is a couple of batches of TED. I was suss on it out of the kettle, but being my first AG lager I wasn't sure what to expect.
My recipe had some Northern Brewer and Hallertauer though, but I expected more from the Czech Saaz. Informative topic so many thanks and a lesson learned for me about old nobles...
:icon_cheers:

Edit: Deleted ramble...


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## dhal4 (14/9/09)

Same thing happened with saaz hopped pilsner. were bought stored in a plastic bag and not vaccum sealed. Left too long in the fridge and god knows how long in the fridge in the shop.

Lesson learnt - buy and use fresh


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## Maxt (15/9/09)

I would also think the hop age is the issue. 

I have also had the plasure of making an Australian premium lager.
It was supposed to be a Vienna, but the thermometer was dodgy and I mashed at 63. 
It was incredible how much like Tooheys it was. Thin, crisp, fizzy and completly lacking in any hop or malt character.

Look of the bright side Bribie, Lion Nathan may be recruiting!


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## mauriceatron (15/9/09)

Just was reading this thread and I remembered I'd read something about hop storage and loss of AA over time. There is a reference for hops in what Beersmith calls it's Hop Stability Index. You can find the list of hops here: Beersmith Hops Table

Clicking on the hop varieties gives an indicative shelf life. Apparently it's in the Beersmith software but I don't know as I use Beer Alchemy. There's an associated blog post as far as how to use the list: Hop Storage and Preserving

Whilst the best advice is "buy and use fresh", as home brewers, we all seem to have part packages of hops lying around in our freezers and it's handy to know the estimated loss of AA if we're going to use them. I know it's still all a bit of guess work but but hey, it makes me _feel_ good being able to calculate this!! 

cheers!


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## Bribie G (15/9/09)

I have a fair selection of odds and ends and was only thinking yesterday that I should do a quick inventory, chuck out those Newports that I bought last year for $4 and do a few malt driven UK bitters where the hops aren't the main event and just clean out the stock. The Saaz plugs in question were bought in especially for the brew but were as mentioned a couple of seasons old. They would have been stored properly by my supplier but he's at the mercy of his own suppliers and obviously he's not going to be able to do a test brew with every single hop batch that comes into the store to make sure that they are up to scratch  

And also I'm going to pay a couple of bucks extra and go for the 'new season' varieties now, as far as possible.


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