# No Sparge Herms 2 Vessel Brewery



## 3G (19/4/09)

Who out there has a two vessel herms brewery. I looking at building a 60 litre brewery with two 100 litre pots.
What %'s can i expect.
Obviously the HLT will be the kettle and would be no sparge set up.
Cheers


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## reVoxAHB (19/4/09)

Dude, where to begin? 

Rephrase all that and get back to us. 

reVox


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## Thirsty Boy (20/4/09)

I have a three vessel RIMS system - but I do no-sparge. It was a 2 vessel for a while before I got my HLT functioning and it was a HERMS at the time.

I get around 75% efficiency measured at pre-boil. But being no-sparge, efficiency is quite sensitive to the intended OG (actually the size of teh grain bill, but the same result) - smaller beers getting higher efficiency and big beers getting quite a bit lower.

I am looking at 23.2L batches and I use a 47L plastic storage box as a mash tun, with a length of stainless hose braid as a false bottom... so my results wont be all that translatable to yours.

Still - I would expect pre-boil efficiencies somewhere in the mid to low 70's or at least I hope so, I am looking to transform the brewery to a 50L aluminium mash tun with a trad domed false bottom. Still HERMS, still probably no-sparge - but I don't know for sure.

as revox said - more information on how you plan to set-up would help people give you more detailed responses.

TB


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## aldee (20/4/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> <br />I have a three vessel RIMS system - but I do no-sparge. It was a 2 vessel for a while before I got my HLT functioning and it was a HERMS at the time.<br /><br />I get around 75% efficiency measured at pre-boil. But being no-sparge, efficiency is quite sensitive to the intended OG (actually the size of teh grain bill, but the same result) - smaller beers getting higher efficiency and big beers getting quite a bit lower.<br /><br />I am looking at 23.2L batches and I use a 47L plastic storage box as a mash tun, with a length of stainless hose braid as a false bottom... so my results wont be all that translatable to yours.<br /><br />Still - I would expect pre-boil efficiencies somewhere in the mid to low 70's or at least I hope so, I am looking to transform the brewery to a 50L aluminium mash tun with a trad domed false bottom. Still HERMS, still probably no-sparge - but I don't know for sure.<br /><br />as revox said - more information on how you plan to set-up would help people give you more detailed responses.<br /><br />TB<br />


<br /><br /><br />

TB

I know its a bit OT but how does no sparge work ? (still a partial brewer unsure of the mysteries of AG, idiosyncrasies of RIMS, HERMS)

Aldee


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## 3G (20/4/09)

reVox said:


> Dude, where to begin?
> 
> Rephrase all that and get back to us.
> 
> reVox



Sorry Dude
Thinking of buiding the following
98 litre mash tun
98 litre combined hlt / kettle, will be electric with two 2400 watt elements and dedicated circuit
Seperate herms HE

Brew as follows,
dough in with usual liquor grist ratio
after conversion add all the sparge water 
recirculate then pump into the hlt/kettle

As long as i can get 65 to 75 % effeciency i would be keen to go this way.
Should be a quicker brew day with one less piece of equipment and less space/storage/cleaning/ $$


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## raven19 (20/4/09)

As we discussed last night I like the setup strategy, a few dollars of extra grain vs a lot less time and effort during brewing.
My 100L kettle uses 2 x 2400W elements and gets a good rolling boil.
Cheers!


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## reVoxAHB (20/4/09)

Gotcha.

Really this is a question of what efficiency you can expect from No Sparging. The added HERMS won't bump you from 55% to 70%.

I like the rig concept for simplicities sake however, you're going to the trouble of building a dedicated HE/HERMS but want to skip sparging? It goes against my logic, but then if your goal is less gear, less hassle your idea would certainly achieve this.

So long as you target the specific gravity of your mash, it should be the SG in your kettle. If it's too low, keep mashing. I can't comment on no sparge efficiency from personal experience, but it's my understanding you can expect 50%-55% at best. 

reVox


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## 3G (20/4/09)

Looking on the beerbelly site for the pots it seems the brew boy is a two vessel no sparge system.
Wayne what eff do you get?


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## Thirsty Boy (21/4/09)

re-vox is right in that most people usually quote 50-55 for a no-sparge (as you have described it - which is what I do, except I stir the mash when I add the liquor) system - but I just never got anywhere near that low.

My lowest no-sparge efficiency (measured at pre-boil) is IIRC 63-64% on a beer that was intended to be a 1.075 OG - I calculated for 68% so it ended up low. I added DME.

In my situation - I have actually got a HLT, so I have the luxury of changing techniques when I brew a bigger beer. Above an intended OG of 1.060-1.065 ish, I will change techniques to a double run-off batch sparge. Which puts me back up into the mid 70's. I only didn't for that one bigger beer because I couldn't be arsed. I learned what happens though.

A strategy for you - on bigger beers - could be to stick with your no-sparge two vessel system, but jerry rig a passive HLT for those times when you want to brew an especially high OH beer.

You heat up all your sparge water in your kettle as per normal - when its a few dgrees above your target sparge temp, pump an amount equal to half your pre-boil volume (say 35L???) into an eski you have pre-heated with a kettle full of boiling water.

Sparge with the water in the kettle - drain to kettle and do your second sparge with the water in the eski.

This is a really common set-up I read about all the time in American home breweries. The HLT for those guys is very very frequently just an eski on a stand with a tap. All heating is done in the kettle. The eski more or less needs no mods at all. Just clean out the one you chill your BBQ beer in.


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## 3G (21/4/09)

Cheers Thirsty boy.
Might give no sparge a go on current 50 litre system amd see the results.


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