# I Need Some Advice...wb-06



## Lindsay Dive

It's been a little while since I have brewed a Hefeweizen and I have decided to knock one up in the next few weeks. In the past I have always used Whitelabs WLP 300 and Whitelabs WLP380. I personally have a preference for the 300. Anyway, I now have some Safbrew WB-06 that I wish to try.

In the past, I have found using the WLP300 that it forms a massive krausen which just loves to come out of the airlock and go absolutely everywhere. I solved that problem by placing a 25 litre brew into a 60 litre fermenter. Problem solved. Now for my question, does WB-06 perform the same as far as the massive krausen is concerned, or, can I simply put this into my normal 30 litre fermenters??


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## Nick JD

Lindsay Dive said:


> It's been a little while since I have brewed a Hefeweizen and I have decided to knock one up in the next few weeks. In the past I have always used Whitelabs WLP 300 and Whitelabs WLP380. I personally have a preference for the 300. Anyway, I now have some Safbrew WB-06 that I wish to try.
> 
> In the past, I have found using the WLP300 that it forms a massive krausen which just loves to come out of the airlock and go absolutely everywhere. I solved that problem by placing a 25 litre brew into a 60 litre fermenter. Problem solved. Now for my question, does WB-06 perform the same as far as the massive krausen is concerned, or, can I simply put this into my normal 30 litre fermenters??



No big krausen. It's also more of a belgian wit yeast than a german hefe. 

I like it though. Lots of cloves. Just don't expect banana. WB06 will be more like 380 than 300.


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## JaseH

Sorry to hijack, but is there an ideal temperature in which to ferment this yeast at? I just pitched WB06 into an ND Brewing hefeweizen fwk last night.


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## black_labb

I've heard 17 is the ideal temp for wb06 if you want that bubblegum flavour, though i lacked temp control when I brewed with it.


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## brucearnold

Nick JD said:


> ....Lots of cloves. Just don't expect banana. WB06 will be more like 380 than 300.



WLP380 is only banana! I even brewed at 16 to try and reduce, but still only got banana!


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## Lindsay Dive

This is what I have extracted from the Bintani website,



> 12-25C (Ideally 18-24C)For clove flavour: below 22C.For banana flavour: above 23C
> 
> Specialty yeast selected for wheat beer fermentations. Produces subtle estery and phenol flavo notes typical of wheat beers. Allows to brew beers with a high drinkability profile and presents a very good ability to suspend during fermentation.



I'm not really happy about producing a wit style beer with this yeast, so, I may have to consider going back to WLP300.


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## pk.sax

I find 17 a good temp for my hefe.

The yeast pushes it to 18 and the fridge knocks it back down to 16. Perfect.

Actually, I do that with my ales in general.

PS: Danstar Munich might be the go for a hefe, as a dry yeast at least.


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## brucearnold

practicalfool said:


> ....
> PS: Danstar Munich might be the go for a hefe, as a dry yeast at least.



Agree. Was a decent yeast this one and not a keg of bananas in sight, but compared to say 300 it does lack a little bit of flavour as expected between liquid and dry.


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## O'Henry

practicalfool said:


> I find 17 a good temp for my hefe.
> 
> The yeast pushes it to 18 and the fridge knocks it back down to 16. Perfect.
> 
> Actually, I do that with my ales in general.
> 
> PS: Danstar Munich might be the go for a hefe, as a dry yeast at least.



+1 

I've found wb-06 to give a good amount of cloves at around 18C.


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## Lindsay Dive

BruceA said:


> Agree. Was a decent yeast this one and not a keg of bananas in sight, but compared to say 300 it does lack a little bit of flavour as expected between liquid and dry.




Hmmm, I'm not getting a good feeling about this yeast.


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## Renzo

I've done it at 26c and got nice clove with a bit of Banana. Solid hefe yeast, not Shofferhoffer but more Paulaner


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## JaseH

Renzo said:


> I've done it at 26c and got nice clove with a bit of Banana. Solid hefe yeast, not Shofferhoffer but more Paulaner



I'd be happy with something along the lines of Paulaner in my hefe, I like that subtle banana. I've currently got it sitting around 20-21c.


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## DJR

I brewed with it at 24-25C, no banana.


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## sponge

Doen't the banana esters increase when the yeast is stressed, such as when under-pitching, or not aerating the wort before pitching?

I am sure I read this a while back before I did a wit where I pitched a pack of WB06 into a wort that had not been aerated much/at all and remember having a distinct whack of banana with it.

Pretty sure I also did the 30 degree rule with pitching at 12 and fermenting at 18


If i had notes it would be a fair bit more helpful though...


Sponge


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## Lindsay Dive

DJR said:


> I brewed with it at 24-25C, no banana.



The feedback I'm receiving here is all over the shop! Bintani's website clearly states that above 23C for banana esters and yet Fermentis's website does not even mention banana or cloves for that matter!

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/CB/EN/Safbrew_WB-06_CB.pdf


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## Nick JD

Lindsay Dive said:


> The feedback I'm receiving here is all over the shop! Bintani's website clearly states that above 23C for banana esters and yet Fermentis's website does not even mention banana or cloves for that matter!
> 
> http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/CB/EN/Safbrew_WB-06_CB.pdf



"The yeast produces subtle estery (banana) and phenol (clove) flavour notes typical of wheat beers."


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## brucearnold

DJR said:


> I brewed with it at 24-25C, no banana.


If I was going up to the Blue Mountains for a trip I would bring my keg and blend with yours... too many bananas in my beer (WLP380).


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## Renzo

I don't aerate it or re-hydrate ( I re-hydrate other dry yeasts though). I also go 65% wheat which seems to favour the amyl acetate. From experience WB-06 will not produce *high* banana esters and leans more to the clove side of the spectrum but there is banana present. If you're looking for just a banana/bubblegum wheat beer yeast then by all means.... go liquid. In my opinion WB-06 makes a bloody tasty hefe, but it's not ever going to have a banana up-front flavor like a shoffer. I prefer my hefes with slightly more clove and with subtle banana/bubblegum which WB-06 does well.


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## pk.sax

Schoffers are not real weissbeers. It's like Drinking a liquid banana to me, kills the spiciness, way too sweet for the 'refreshment' it's supposed to give.

Then again, if you're like me and your lemonade makes your mouth pucker you'll stay away from trying to emulate schoffers.

I used motueka in my current one to give it that nice herbal spicy tinge of fruitiness. Bittered to usual weissbier ibus at 40 minutes per some excellent recipe recommendations on here.

I added a 100g of crystal to the brew and it's a tiny bit syrupy. I think next time I'll chuck in a small amount of table sugar too if I'm adding crystal at all. Still experimenting here, I'm barely competent enough to make a recipe off ideas stolen from others'.


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## DJR

Mine didn't have that much wheat in it, about 25%. 10 BU's and added some dextrose to it after reading that straight glucose can bring out more banana.

Theory doesn't work. Probably better to underpitch. The airlock was going after only a couple of hours and the whole ferment was done in 4 or so days.

It's OK, but i was after more banana. Tastes more like the coopers kit yeast at the moment but that may have been from adding the dextrose.

I'll be priming it with honey and bottling it up, time will tell if the Mrs will drink it which was the whole point.

Next time - 3068, 3333 or 3638.


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## Nick JD

Schneider Weisse is the king of the wheaties and the archetype of the style, IMO. 

Reculture their yeast FTW...


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## pk.sax

Nick JD said:


> Schneider Weisse is the king of the wheaties and the archetype of the style, IMO.
> 
> Reculture their yeast FTW...


Try finding one in decent condition! I love 3638 though, same difference.


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## JaseH

Curiosity got the better of me and I took an SG sample of my hefe fwk with wb06, bubblegum and clove but not much banana so far. It sure did take off though, down from 1046 to 1020 in 48hrs. Pitched at around 22c and been hovering around that since.


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## JaseH

Just thought I'd post a quick update, bottled my hefe with the WB06 last night. There was definite banana in there with bubblegum. The clove had dropped off a little. I kept this at 22c for a week after FG was reached. I really like how this turned out.


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## Renzo

Frothie said:


> Just thought I'd post a quick update, bottled my hefe with the WB06 last night. There was definite banana in there with bubblegum. The clove had dropped off a little. I kept this at 22c for a week after FG was reached. I really like how this turned out.





Nice. What % wheat did you use?


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## JaseH

Renzo said:


> Nice. What % wheat did you use?



It was a "Brewers Selection" fresh wort kit, not sure of the grain bill they use sorry. I boiled up 15gm of ground coriander seed and 20gm of orange zest and added it to the wort.


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## Renzo

Frothie said:


> It was a "Brewers Selection" fresh wort kit, not sure of the grain bill they use sorry. I boiled up 15gm of ground coriander seed and 20gm of orange zest and added it to the wort.






That'd be more like a belgian wit than a german hefe with the coriander & orange.


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## Lindsay Dive

Hmmm, don't know what happened here as I stopped receiving emails letting me know that others had posted...not to worry.

Thanks for the feed back. I really appreciate it. As I said before, I have made many Hefeweizens in the past and I am really only asking questions regarding this WB-06 yeast.

I think I'll give it a go and see what happens. Can't be too bad. I'll run the ferment at 22C and keep my fingers crossed.

Praticalfool, don't use crystal to get the colour profile, use Carahell :super: 250 grams for 25 litres does the trick.


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## wessmith

Lindsay Dive said:


> Hmmm, don't know what happened here as I stopped receiving emails letting me know that others had posted...not to worry.
> 
> Thanks for the feed back. I really appreciate it. As I said before, I have made many Hefeweizens in the past and I am really only asking questions regarding this WB-06 yeast.
> 
> I think I'll give it a go and see what happens. Can't be too bad. I'll run the ferment at 22C and keep my fingers crossed.
> 
> Praticalfool, don't use crystal to get the colour profile, use Carahell :super: 250 grams for 25 litres does the trick.



Hi Lindsay, good to see you are still brewing. A little tip for colour - Carawheat. It gives a dryish nutty flavour and of course adds colour. 
Cheers, Wes


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## Swordsman

Frothie said:


> Curiosity got the better of me and I took an SG sample of my hefe fwk with wb06, bubblegum and clove but not much banana so far. It sure did take off though, down from 1046 to 1020 in 48hrs. Pitched at around 22c and been hovering around that since.



I'm doing my second beer with WB-06 (first was fresh wort heffewiezen) and since its a base for my raspberry whit i'ts just a simple coooper wheat with 1kg wheat malt, 300dex and some steeped grain. Its is down to from 1045 to 1020 in three days and it took 6hrs to get going too (pitched dry yeast on top and left it). Fermenting quite hot (24-25deg) because the beer fridge is busy with a lager and its warm and humid here in brisbane atm. 

Its a great yeast IMO and while not as strong in banana as other wheat yeasts its pretty quick, foolproof and i think makes a great beer. I get a bit of banana in both cases during fermentation (i do brew on the high end) and when young in the bottle but it doesn't last and within a week of carbing up the banana is started to dissipate. I found some bottles that were 3 months old of the fresh wort hefewiezen and it had gone into a redback style of beer...lager like, some clove but no banana present at all. I've been told to up the wheat content in the beer if you want more banana from this yeast but not sure if that is true or not. 

Depends on what you are looking for i suppose. Also drops out alot more than other wheat yeasts...if you let a bottle settle for a few months and pour carefully its as clear as a lager etc.


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## Lindsay Dive

wessmith said:


> Hi Lindsay, good to see you are still brewing. A little tip for colour - Carawheat. It gives a dryish nutty flavour and of course adds colour.
> Cheers, Wes



Yep, still going stronger than ever Wes. I don't get on here as often as I used to though. I have found that the young new brewers suck your brains until their heads swell up and then turn around and tell you what your doing wrong.

Anyway, back to the Hefeweizen. I know our memories are not as good as they used to be, however, it was your good self that steered me down the track of Carahell in a hefe and I have never changed. How about that!!


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## wessmith

Lindsay Dive said:


> Yep, still going stronger than ever Wes. I don't get on here as often as I used to though. I have found that the young new brewers suck your brains until their heads swell up and then turn around and tell you what your doing wrong.
> 
> Anyway, back to the Hefeweizen. I know our memories are not as good as they used to be, however, it was your good self that steered me down the track of Carahell in a hefe and I have never changed. How about that!!



Yep, Carahell is still a must in my collection of malts but give the Carawheat a try for something a little different - helps deliver a dryer finish.

We will have to get together and swap some bullshit about the old days - no good posting it on here though - somebody might learn something! 

Cheers,

Wes


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## manticle

Not one for nostalgia usually but I wish some of the older crew would come back.

I'd like to be learning more and the information people used to give out when I first joined was like liquid gold to me.


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## pk.sax

Thanks guys, I'll have to find some of that carahell or carawheat in my next order. I was just loving the way a very small amoun of crystal (could've been the decoctions) gave my beer that clingy heady foam and that smooth lightly coat the throat silkiness. My hefe keg was quite well drunk so I'll have to knock out another when I get back.

PS: I never quite met the said old crew as I didn't exist at that time. If it is like what I've learnt by going over to other brewers' brews then bring it all back.


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## Lindsay Dive

practicalfool said:


> Thanks guys, I'll have to find some of that carahell or carawheat in my next order. I was just loving the way a very small amoun of crystal (could've been the decoctions) gave my beer that clingy heady foam and that smooth lightly coat the throat silkiness. My hefe keg was quite well drunk so I'll have to knock out another when I get back.
> 
> PS: I never quite met the said old crew as I didn't exist at that time. If it is like what I've learnt by going over to other brewers' brews then bring it all back.



You must have a different perspective of a Craftbrewer these days. 

The internet did not exist back when us old bastards eventually worked out what to do to create craft brewed beer. After reading over and over many books, and, I must say there was a whole lot of help from Mel Robson from ESB in Sydney, who I bought the books off, who was a massive support. I still have the books and cherish them..... Greg Noonan and Charlie Parpazian and many more, they are the ones that come to mind....oh my god, how many holes did I have to drill in that fuken bucket and I had malt dripping off every thing in the kitchen. Do you believe that? in the kitchen.! And...........the beer was shit!

When I showed my current brew mate some years ago what you have to do on a brew day, he was a little stunned. I said, it's no rocket scientist stuff, it's all time, temperature and cleanliness, I told him that I could train a monkey to do this........... he's the monkey these days as he's much younger.

Sorry for the little rant, and, totally off topic. Who cares. I'm going to bed.


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## jyo

Have tried beers with this but never used it myself. I've been having a read and opinions seem to be varied with this.

Some say:
17'= bubblegum
18'= cloves
24'= no banana
22' bubblegum and banana.

Does any one have anything else to add to this? I pitched a couple of hours ago and have it sitting at 20'. I love the bubblegum in a hefe, though it's elusive for me.

Waddya's reckon? 

Cheers.


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## yum beer

Brewed and bottled a wezien my last batch with WB-06.
Started at 18c and rampred temp up 0.5c each day.

Fermenting fridge full of bubblegum smell, finished brew smells of bubblegum, waiting on it to carb to try it out,

but no sign of cloves or banana in taste of sample taken on bottling. I hope the bubblegum flavour comes through.

Had a weihenstephaner krystal recently and it was chock of bubblegum, yum. Incidently bottle was 2 months O.O.D. so much for best fresh.


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## Thefatdoghead

Nick JD said:


> No big krausen. It's also more of a belgian wit yeast than a german hefe.
> 
> I like it though. Lots of cloves. Just don't expect banana. WB06 will be more like 380 than 300.



That depends how long you mash in the 40's for to make the yeast produce the 4 vinal guiacole and your ferment temp really. I was really surprised by this yeast I recommend trying it.


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## Thefatdoghead

jyo said:


> Have tried beers with this but never used it myself. I've been having a read and opinions seem to be varied with this.
> 
> Some say:
> 17'= bubblegum
> 18'= cloves
> 24'= no banana
> 22' bubblegum and banana.
> 
> Does any one have anything else to add to this? I pitched a couple of hours ago and have it sitting at 20'. I love the bubblegum in a hefe, though it's elusive for me.
> 
> Waddya's reckon?
> 
> Cheers.


Going by most other yeasts you would think the cooler the more smooth the esters will be. Mash at 47 for 15 and see how much clove comes through with a ferment temp at 17 degrees. Might give that a go in my up coming dunkel weizen.


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## jyo

Gav80 said:


> Going by most other yeasts you would think the cooler the more smooth the esters will be. Mash at 47 for 15 and see how much clove comes through with a ferment temp at 17 degrees. Might give that a go in my up coming dunkel weizen.



I did a single infusion at 66, so that's not going to play a part with this one. Ok, so you guys are thinking 17-18' for the juicy fruit?

Cheers.


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## Nick JD

Bubblegum flavour is isoamyl acetate.


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## jyo

Nick JD said:


> Bubblegum flavour is isoamyl acetate.



I always thought that was just banana, but there you go. Are you gonna tell how to get it with this yeast, Nick, or just leave me hanging  

Fridge is now set to 17'. Will see how I go.


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## Thefatdoghead

jyo said:


> I always thought that was just banana, but there you go. Are you gonna tell how to get it with this yeast, Nick, or just leave me hanging
> 
> Fridge is now set to 17'. Will see how I go.


Bubblegum.... do you reckon clove's and banana would make bubblegum?


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## Nick JD

jyo said:


> Are you gonna tell how to get it with this yeast, Nick, or just leave me hanging



Juicy fruit? 1214 @ 20C.


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## jyo

Gav80 said:


> Bubblegum.... do you reckon clove's and banana would make bubblegum?



Yeah I think it would go pretty close, mate. 




Nick JD said:


> Juicy fruit? 1214 @ 20C.



Cheers, Nick. Just read the specs and see it's good for witbiers. Another one for the list.


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## jyo

It's early days, but this has been at 17' for three days and the sample just now has thrown massive bubblegum B) 

If the profile holds like this I will a happy boy.


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