# Moving To Biab



## fletcher (10/10/12)

hey guys,

1. am i able to stove-top a 19l batch? stove is electric flat top heatpad variety but quite powerful
2. what size pot would i need for this? 30l? or 25? just concerned about boil-off etc
3. what's the best software or programme to use to figure out all the boiling off, and the amount of ingredients i should be using for whatever beer? i have no idea how much grain and water volume and malt and hops (as well as types), for example, to figure out how to get my beer to taste 

thanks!


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## Diesel80 (10/10/12)

fletcher said:


> hey guys,
> 
> 1. am i able to stove-top a 19l batch? stove is electric flat top heatpad variety but quite powerful
> 2. what size pot would i need for this? 30l? or 25? just concerned about boil-off etc
> ...



have you read Nicks move to AG for $30 thread?. Pretty sure he lists what pot size is required etc.

I use Brewmate for software.
For boil off rates you will need to measure these yourself and dial them into your receipe.

Cheers,
D80


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## fletcher (10/10/12)

i had a quick look through it. i'll look at it again, thank you.

is brewmate free? all good, i can search, i'm just being lazy. apologies 

thanks for your reply!


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## Nick JD (10/10/12)

It's difficult to get more than 20L boiling vigorously on a very good stove.

Pretty sure my big element is 2400W, and it boils 14L well - but that's a full noise.


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## robbo5253 (10/10/12)

I also have a flat stove top & one thing which you need to make sure is that your pot is flat bottomoed, I had one which raised up in the middle so there was not full contact to the hotplate & this made it a slow process! So just check your pot when you buy it.

Cheers

Robbo


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## fletcher (10/10/12)

ah so for a 19l ferment volume, you don't think it's feasible on a stove top?

thanks robbo. yeah when i buy one, i'll make it a solid decent purchase (even if i spend a bit more $$)


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## Nick JD (10/10/12)

fletcher said:


> ah so for a 19l ferment volume, you don't think it's feasible on a stove top?
> 
> thanks robbo. yeah when i buy one, i'll make it a solid decent purchase (even if i spend a bit more $$)



Get a 35L + pot and an element. It is possible to make 19L of beer in a 19L pot, but you need to boil over gravity.


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## fletcher (10/10/12)

damn. i was hoping to be able to get about a 30l and that be adequate. element is fine but that adds a whole new level of cost for element + gas etc. either that or smaller brews i suppose -.-


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/10/12)

I do up to 35L on the stove with 2 pots, originally with nick's stovetop biab method, now with the system linked in my signature. Post in the thread if you have any questions so all benefit. There are plenty of photos and when I'm able to brew again, I will update with better resolution photos.

My stove is a normal glass cooktop electrical stove, and no problems.

For one pot maxi-biab (rdevjun is your man), it'd be replicable onto stovetop method.

Goomba


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## RdeVjun (10/10/12)

By all means use the 19L stockpot on your electric stovetop, IMO initially you'd want to follow the $30 All Grain / MiniBIAB (google it) threads for 12L batches, then when you're confident at that you can also make >23L batches in your 19L stockpot on the very same stovetop- google MaxiBIAB or follow the 20L Stovetop thread. (Or thereabouts...)
My advice is to test the stovetop before all else, should be able to boil the 19L pot with a little vigor. If not, work out how much you can spend on a kettle and do it. 
Hope that helps! :icon_cheers:


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## fletcher (10/10/12)

RdeVjun said:


> By all means use the 19L stockpot on your electric stovetop, IMO initially you'd want to follow the $30 All Grain / MiniBIAB (google it) threads for 12L batches, then when you're confident at that you can also make >23L batches in your 19L stockpot on the very same stovetop- google MaxiBIAB or follow the 20L Stovetop thread. (Or thereabouts...)
> My advice is to test the stovetop before all else, should be able to boil the 19L pot with a little vigor. If not, work out how much you can spend on a kettle and do it.
> Hope that helps! :icon_cheers:



Thanks mate! Yeah gonna start out simple then pick it up. Thanks a bunch. I'll probably have about a thousand more questions on brew day


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## flano (11/10/12)

yep go with Nicks technique it works a treat. Do it religiously.
Just be aware that if you are married there is a fair chance the missus will snap a brain at the stench.
mine did.
I now brew outdside and am lovin it!

Can I also make a little suggestion.
Those one grain brews seem to get a slight sour taste for me ...have no idea why. 
If I add about 200 grams of dark crystal it gets rid of the sourness and also gives the beer a nice smokey sort of flavour. Adjust the recipe to the same grain weight.

maybe someone can tell me why I get the sour taste?


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## fletcher (13/10/12)

thanks for the tips Flano.

could i ask anyone who'd be bothered to answer, what their favourite SMaSH beer is? i'm keen to try a nice simple recipe for starters then work my way up. i'm a fan of MANY kinds of beers. preferences are dry lagers, pale ales...shit, anything really. something simple and not too overly dark or heavy kind if it can be helped. i'd try the one in the $30 AG thread but i don't like the POR hop as much as those i've tasted with more international/european style flavours/aromas.


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## yum beer (13/10/12)

100% pilsener, mash at 62C for 90 minutes.
Saaz boiled 60 minutes to 30 - 35 IBU
Ferment with 34/70 at 11c and leave to settle in fridge for 3-4 weeks.

Throw in a decoction to achieve mash out.

Yum


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## bruce86 (13/10/12)

100% munich1 mashed at 66deg for 60min
halleratu 60min to 20 ibu
" " 20min to 4 ibu
ferment with any lager yeast munich if possible. at about 10 deg

if u cant get haller use hersbrucker instead had good results with both


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## pk.sax (13/10/12)

Have not done a smash beer. Did do a cascade only ipa. 160g cascade flowers went in a single batch. Lovely beer.

Malt bill was pretty much pale malt 3 kg, wheat 1 kg, probably Half a kilo of crystal. Can't rem these exactly. Bittering was to 100 something ibus at 40-60 mins and then a flavour addition at 5 minutes.


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## QldKev (13/10/12)

fletcher said:


> damn. i was hoping to be able to get about a 30l and that be adequate. element is fine but that adds a whole new level of cost for element + gas etc. either that or smaller brews i suppose -.-




Get an old retired keg and add a HWS or uxcell element. Thow in a bag and a tap and you have a basis for a great brewery.

QldKev


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## fletcher (13/10/12)

thanks for the recipes everyone! i'll look to get some grain over the next week and get BIABing. very psyched.

just for my clarification, decoction is where you have a separate pot of water boiling alongside your mash and slowly add it to the wort over the course of the mash right?

1. 55c for 20 mins (prot rest)
2. add boiling water to achieve 65-68c for 45 mins (sacc rest)
3. add boiling water to achieve mash out temp of 74-76 and leave for 10 mins before starting the boil?

god damn i'm getting addicted to this. i can't wait.


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## Nick JD (13/10/12)

fletcher said:


> thanks for the recipes everyone! i'll look to get some grain over the next week and get BIABing. very psyched.
> 
> just for my clarification, decoction is where you have a separate pot of water boiling alongside your mash and slowly add it to the wort over the course of the mash right?
> 
> ...



Infusion. Decoction is removing and boiling part of the mash and returning it.


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## fletcher (13/10/12)

aha. cheers nick. guess i'll have to read up more :s

i'm a bit confused but i'm sure i can google it somewhere


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## breakbeer (13/10/12)

I've only just started AG and BIAB, only 3 brews in. I'd suggest keeping it real simple, no protein rests or mashing out. Just go with a single step until you're comfortable with the process & equipment. 

Start with your strike water at about 3 degrees hotter than you want to mash, add your bag & just try to maintain that temp for 60 mins. Hoist the bag & let it drain while you ramp up to boil. Piece of piss


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## bignath (13/10/12)

breakbeer said:


> I've only just started AG and BIAB, only 3 brews in. I'd suggest keeping it real simple, no protein rests or mashing out. Just go with a single step until you're comfortable with the process & equipment.
> 
> Start with your strike water at about 3 degrees hotter than you want to mash, add your bag & just try to maintain that temp for 60 mins. Hoist the bag & let it drain while you ramp up to boil. Piece of piss




Yep that's the beauty of BIAB right there. So simple. 

It can be tricked up if you want, but it doesn't need to be.


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## Diesel80 (13/10/12)

Good 'Almost SMaSH' brew is

Marris Otter 95%
Crystal 5%
Styrian Goldings

Aim for 25-30 IBU - with a 60 and 15min addition (no chill adjusted in BrewMate).
Aim for 1.044-1.048 SG in fermenter.

Ferment with Nottingham @ 18-19 degrees. 
Styrians are a very nice hop.

Almost fool proof receipe.

Drool...

D80


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## fletcher (13/10/12)

i just read decoction and got a bit scared. i think i'll stick with a mini-simple-styleBIAB with just a few ingredients and move up from there once i know my shizzle. good words of wisdom there...i tend to get ideas and then get crazy, carried away and excited. i can't thank you guys enough! i'll let you know which one i choose and how it goes


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## kevo (13/10/12)

Never decocted, but think it looks cool...



Kev


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## Nick JD (13/10/12)

I did a short, simple - give decoction a go - tutorial (single, thin decoction that can't go wrong but shows one how to go about it) a while back. Let me google it.

Here 'tis.


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## Brewman_ (13/10/12)

You can keep it simple and get great results. Seriously.

Fear.


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## kelbygreen (13/10/12)

I found decoction added more flavour and points but! it was a pain without help. Mind you I done it when I was doing a single bath with decoction and a normal double batch. 

I was flat out all day and heating the mash out was fun and I had to heat the decoction on the stove top and my rig is in the shed. so was running in and out of the house to stir and check temp lol. But I got 65lts of beer, Double pale ale and single pilsner into cubes and cleaned up in just under 5hrs lol


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## Brewman_ (13/10/12)

Hi Fletcher,
If you have not already got a pot, I have one that I was going to keep but I guess I could sell it of it suits you. I still use BIAB but I recently got a larger pot. So I have a Keg style SS Keggle 47L capacity, with at least one or maybe two good bags (will have to have a look), I have a valve also. It is good for single and double batches. It has made some Cracking beers!

All you need is a burner to heat it as well, forget the stovetop. I assume you have a BBQ gas bottle.

PM me if your interested, but I am happy to keep it.

Fear.


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## fletcher (14/10/12)

hey fear, I haven't got a burner or gas at the moment. I was gonn start using the stove top first to get my skill up then if I wanted larger (no doubt will in the future I'm sure), was gonna look at getting the gas burner and everything from there. sad thing is, because we're in a tiny city apartment, I'm really confined for space, so I can't really use anything more than stove top for now. 

thanks for the offer, if its still on offer after I've made my first few brews I'll hit you up then 100%


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## pimpsqueak (14/10/12)

I found biab on a stovetop with a 50L pot and 5kg of grain to be a total bastard when I had to manually hoist the bag and hold it at shoulder height while it drained.

Now I use a spiral burner on the floor and have a pully set up. Nearly infinitely easier.


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## Brewman_ (14/10/12)

No worries fletcher, let me know,

I now brew with over 10Kg of grain, and use multiple pulleys for the hoist, ewasy as heaps safer.

Fear.


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## hellbent (14/10/12)

I Have been doing 14l in a 19l pot using a 3ring burner and if you keep an eye on it you can regulate to have a good rolling boil without "boil over." I also use Brewmate which I find as a novice much easier to read than Beersmith and such, Brewmate will automatically adjust your brew for any size you want and it's a breeze to use. I also suggest you do a lot of reading up here (AHB) and on other sites and don't be afraid to ask questions, a lot of the guys here are always prepared to help with any problems you may have. Good luck mate and happy brewing.
Cheers 
Al


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## fletcher (15/10/12)

my stove top is a Ceran Glass Stove Top - my stove top is a Ceran Glass Stove Top and i have no idea the wattage of it as i'm in a rental apartment and don't have the manual. i could possibly use two of the rings, however i'm scared of buying a 36/40L pot if i can't get it to a rolling boil. any ideas?


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## fletcher (15/10/12)

re-read the $30 threads and have seen how you can boil over gravity which answers that question. sweet


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## yum beer (15/10/12)

Ive used a 19l pot on a ceran cooktop, big burner gets it boiling fairly well but the ange hood couldnt cope with the steam, takes a bit
of wiping down cupboards as you but it should work for you.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/10/12)

2 x 19L pots - I do it in my glass top rental, and no boilovers!


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## thylacine (15/10/12)

fletcher said:


> my stove top is a Ceran Glass Stove Top - my stove top is a Ceran Glass Stove Top and i have no idea the wattage of it as i'm in a rental apartment and don't have the manual. i could possibly use two of the rings, however i'm scared of buying a 36/40L pot if i can't get it to a rolling boil. any ideas?



Re achieving a rolling boil:

Previous threads on this topic included "ThirstyBoy's" practice when using a Big W sourced 19L pot (holds 20L to the brim) on a stovetop. 

ie. "...Or, you could do what I do, which is float something on the surface of the liquid. That way anything that evaporates stays evaporated, but the surface area of the liquid is reduced anyway. In a smallish pot, you could just float a takeaway container or a heatproof bowl in there. Experiment with different sized things till you find one that allows you to keep your rolling boil, turn down your heat and maintain a lower % evaporation rate..."

His technique has worked for me over the past two years. When I suspend my hop bag I no longer need the 'floaty'.

Cheers


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## flano (16/10/12)

this is my boiling technique.


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## fletcher (16/10/12)

Flano said:


> this is my boiling technique.




looks good Flano...what's the element-thing in your pot called? where can i source one if i go that route? might make my small balcony in my apartment more favourable than the stove top, and i could use a larger pot.


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## Baulko Brewer (16/10/12)

Hi Fletcher, 

It is an immersion heater. It could be what you are looking for, use it with your stovetop, if you like.

I think Craft brewer sells them or you can evilbay.


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## JDW81 (16/10/12)

fletcher said:


> looks good Flano...what's the element-thing in your pot called? where can i source one if i go that route? might make my small balcony in my apartment more favourable than the stove top, and i could use a larger pot.



I spent two years brewing on the balcony. I have a 3v system and space was pretty tight, if you go BIAB it will be a piece of piss. Clean up is easier than in the kitchen too. An immersion heater like the one above would be a great place to start, they've got plenty of grunt, are safe, reliable and easy to clean.


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## slash22000 (16/10/12)

First I've heard of these immersion heaters, looks like exactly the sort of thing I could use in my little apartment ... Was dreading the idea of gas burners etc.

Is there anything specifically I should be looking for in buying one? On eBay I can buy one from China for like $10 ... I'm sort of assuming those are dodgy or are they just generally inexpensive? Any recommended brands that won't burn down the place?


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## breakbeer (16/10/12)

slash22000 said:


> On eBay I can buy one from China for like $10 ... I'm sort of assuming those are dodgy or are they just generally inexpensive? Any recommended brands that won't burn down the place?



do you mean these:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2500W-Hot-Water...=item4166bbfbbf

I just saw these on the weekend & wondered the same thing. Anyone have one of these or a good reason not to use one?


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## JDW81 (16/10/12)

breakbeer said:


> do you mean these:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2500W-Hot-Water...=item4166bbfbbf
> 
> I just saw these on the weekend & wondered the same thing. Anyone have one of these or a good reason not to use one?



I'd be spending a bit more on an immersion element. You'll need one which is a bit longer so it can reach all the way to the bottom of the liquid. Check out some of the sponsor sites, they'll have ones which are appropriate for the job. It is worth spending a bit extra so its lasts. As my old man says "buy well, buy once'.

The biggest reason not to get a cheap one is safety. Brewing involves lots of water and water and electricity don't mix. Cheap elements are more likely to burn out when run at full whack, running the risk of exposing wires and giving you an almighty shock.


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## Diesel80 (16/10/12)

I use an Immersion heater for biab.
The over the side version from Tobins electrical has been used in 10x biab now and is going strong. No signs of wear.

Cost me about $90+delivery ~100 all up. Has a hook on the side to hang over the side of pot. this is screwed into place and can be adjusted.

I would go for a narrow 40L pot if using one of these. You will get a good boil going. My 80L pot is 50+cm wide and it struggles to bring 37L up to boil due to large wort surface area. I solved that problem by adding a gas burner aswell.

With a nice narrow pot it will p!ss it in no worries.

Cheers,
D80


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## fletcher (16/10/12)

thanks diesel, i just emailed tobin's to get an idea of their stock and such. cheers! do you have the specs for the one that you used for your 40L?


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## fletcher (16/10/12)

Baulko Brewer said:


> Hi Fletcher,
> 
> It is an immersion heater. It could be what you are looking for, use it with your stovetop, if you like.
> 
> I think Craft brewer sells them or you can evilbay.



thanks mate. yeah if i cant use anything else, i'll double it up. great suggestion, thanks!


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## felten (16/10/12)

http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ItemHTML/PIH2400.htm

that the one?


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## fletcher (16/10/12)

felten said:


> http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ItemHTML/PIH2400.htm
> 
> that the one?



that's doable. i might hit that up. thanks man


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## Diesel80 (16/10/12)

felten said:


> http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ItemHTML/PIH2400.htm
> 
> that the one?




Yep that is the one. But it was obtained on Ebay for ~$105 delivered, not from Tobins but obviously a customer of theirs. The unit was clearly packaged by Tobins and even had a delivery slip on it from tobins addressed to me.

So i am guessing that is not the best price they can do!

Check this ebay add:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Portable-Travel...=item4ab5c28aff

same picture as when i bought mine in 2011 from seller jbgadgets - it was a tobins unit. I paid 88+15 delivery.

May be worth asking the seller above if it is a tobins unit.

Cheers
D80


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## fletcher (17/10/12)

thanks guys. tobin's giving me a pretty crazy price and said it would take 2 hours to heat up approx 30-36L of water?

what's it like for you guys? and in what volumes of wort? 2 hours seemed a bit off, don't know if i worded the question wrong to him or not but i don't think so


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## wbosher (19/10/12)

Flano said:


> Can I also make a little suggestion.
> Those one grain brews seem to get a slight sour taste for me ...have no idea why.
> If I add about 200 grams of dark crystal it gets rid of the sourness and also gives the beer a nice smokey sort of flavour. Adjust the recipe to the same grain weight.




When using crystal, do you steep it first and then add the bag and grains after the steep, or just chuck it all in together?


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## glenwal (19/10/12)

wbosher said:


> When using crystal, do you steep it first and then add the bag and grains after the steep, or just chuck it all in together?



just add the crystal to the mash (ie. along with the rest of the grain)


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## wbosher (19/10/12)

The reason I ask is I've heard that you shouldn't squeeze a bag with crystal in it, yet you can squeeze the BIABag


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## Nick JD (19/10/12)

You can squeeze any bag you like! It doesn't release tannins - brewing myth # 87. 

The husks have been sitting in hot water for an hour and a half holding on to all their tannins, and then a quick squeeze lets them all out? I don't fink so. 

Tannin extraction from grain needs high pH and near boiling water (like making a cup a tea). The myth arises because 3V brewers wish they could drain their mash as quickly and easily and efficiently and they needed a reason to slag it off. 

The thing you do get with squeezing is a lot of crap - but this will flocc out in the boil.


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## wbosher (19/10/12)

Thanks for dispelling the myth for me Nick.


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## Diesel80 (19/10/12)

fletcher said:


> thanks guys. tobin's giving me a pretty crazy price and said it would take 2 hours to heat up approx 30-36L of water?
> 
> what's it like for you guys? and in what volumes of wort? 2 hours seemed a bit off, don't know if i worded the question wrong to him or not but i don't think so




If you get a narrow 40 /50L pot you should be right.
Keifer on here used one in a 50L keggle and even posted some heating times with the same element i linked (or very fn similar).
Qld Kev also has some info on his website that is worth a look.
Everyone using a crown / birko urn is using 2200-2400W of electrical energy to boil their brews up, and it doesn't take them 2hours to get a boil going.

To reduce time to boil if you have an aluminium pot, insulate the outside of it (good anyway if it is your mash tun as well, which in BIAB it is). Select the narrowest pot you can for the element to still sit on the bottom of the pot. The smaller the surface area of wort exposed to the open air will also enable faster boil.

Get amongst it.

Cheers,
D80


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## wbosher (19/10/12)

Diesel80 said:


> I would go for a narrow 40L pot if using one of these. You will get a good boil going. My 80L pot is 50+cm wide and it struggles to bring 37L up to boil due to large wort surface area. I solved that problem by adding a gas burner aswell.
> 
> With a nice narrow pot it will p!ss it in no worries.



I just bought a 50L stock pot (never done this before), is 400mm x 400mm. Is that too wide to heat using a gas burner?


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## fletcher (20/10/12)

Diesel80 said:


> If you get a narrow 40 /50L pot you should be right.
> Keifer on here used one in a 50L keggle and even posted some heating times with the same element i linked (or very fn similar).
> Qld Kev also has some info on his website that is worth a look.
> Everyone using a crown / birko urn is using 2200-2400W of electrical energy to boil their brews up, and it doesn't take them 2hours to get a boil going.
> ...


thanks mate, I'm going to grab one of those elements and my stove and a narrow pot and get into it


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## fletcher (21/10/12)

is getting an electric urn any better? i've seen a few threads talk about them. i was looking at this:

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2936

and wondered whether this would be much simpler than getting a bunch of things to poke into the wort for sanitary reasons etc, given i'm quite new. i was looking at pots too, and for the sizes i'm after they're CRAZY expensive. a decent SS 36L pot was $220 from my local chef's warehouse (don't know if they're just pricey though). i've seen ebay ones cheaper but they're still up around that price. 

it seems if that urn has temp controller and such, that i'd be better spending that amount of money on that as opposed to the pot AND additional heaters etc etc. thoughts?


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## fletcher (21/10/12)

oh and thanks for everyone's help so far. i really do appreciate it. 

i'm just a bit worried about spending massive money on a stock pot to realise i then can't use it with my set up...or get one that's a bit small for 19L batches, to then have to replace it and spend more money...hence my million questions >.<


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## RdeVjun (21/10/12)

Save yourself the mental anguish and all the malarkey- as suggested back at the start of this thread, grab your 19L stockpot and follow the $30 AG thread, when you're comfy with that, follow the 20L Stovetop thread for bigger batches. Do that for a few turns, by then you'll have a much better idea of just how long your particular piece of string is and where you should invest, while it only cost you 30 clams to find this out. That's a far cry from a few hundred skins for an urn or a big pot and a burner/ OTS element or even worse, a few grand for an automated single vessel system, only to find out that this All- Grain caper is not really for you.


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## Nick JD (21/10/12)

RdeVjun said:


> Save yourself the mental anguish and all the malarkey- as suggested back at the start of this thread, grab your 19L stockpot and follow the $30 AG thread, when you're comfy with that, follow the 20L Stovetop thread for bigger batches. Do that for a few turns, by then you'll have a much better idea of just how long your particular piece of string is and where you should invest, while it only cost you 30 clams to find this out. That's a far cry from a few hundred skins for an urn or a big pot and a burner/ OTS element or even worse, a few grand for an automated single vessel system, only to find out that this All- Grain caper is not really for you.



Shhh! *Nick's Used Braumeisters dot com *is making a KILLING!


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## Liam_snorkel (21/10/12)

My advice would be to bite the bullet & get an urn, then set up a keg system. It'll change your life.
What do kids say these days.. #YOLO?


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## RdeVjun (21/10/12)

Nick JD said:


> Shhh! *Nick's Used Braumeisters dot com *is making a KILLING!


 :lol: 
Ahh, so that's why retailers are twitchy!


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## fletcher (21/10/12)

RdeVjun said:


> Save yourself the mental anguish and all the malarkey- as suggested back at the start of this thread, grab your 19L stockpot and follow the $30 AG thread, when you're comfy with that, follow the 20L Stovetop thread for bigger batches. Do that for a few turns, by then you'll have a much better idea of just how long your particular piece of string is and where you should invest, while it only cost you 30 clams to find this out. That's a far cry from a few hundred skins for an urn or a big pot and a burner/ OTS element or even worse, a few grand for an automated single vessel system, only to find out that this All- Grain caper is not really for you.



fair enough. you make a good point mate. thanks.


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## flano (23/10/12)

I use an over the side element .
Works great ...do it outside.
Get leaves and rain and shit in the brew as a bonus.

$130.00 from my local HBS at Peakhurst.


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## Blitzer (23/10/12)

Flano said:


> I use an over the side element .
> Works great ...do it outside.
> Get leaves and rain and shit in the brew as a bonus.
> 
> $130.00 from my local HBS at Peakhurst.



Read somewhere that these increase boil off to like 35%? Is that some unfounded statement? If I use it in a 7l pot am I going to run it dry in 30 mins?


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## Diesel80 (23/10/12)

Fletcher,

for a pot check out your local Reward Distribution outlet (they provide wholesale catering / hospitality wares to restaraunts ect), google them up.

You can just turn up and setup a cash account on the spot.
Will cost you about $60-70 for a quality 40-50L Aluminium stock pot.

I can't remember exactly, must the the Alz kicking in.  


Edit: this mob, www.rewarddistribution.com.au/

Cheers,
D80


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## Sam England (23/10/12)

Fletcher, I jumped into AG as per D80's advice with an Aluminium 32L pot and knock out 25L BIAB brews. I would recommend at least 40L though as it's a bugger to monitor for boil overs. I've done this for a couple of years now and I'm now building a Braumiester clone to go to the next level. Total investment in gear was around $80 initially and I've just kept adding to it as I went.

Blitzer, the 35% depends on what volume you're starting with. 2400W will boil a standard batch quite well with reasonable evaporation, but if you're making 7L?? batches you'll have some sort of syrup left over after a 60min boil plus a cooked element unless you keep topping up.

Cheers,
BB


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## bignath (23/10/12)

Blitzer said:


> Read somewhere that these increase boil off to like 35%? Is that some unfounded statement? If I use it in a 7l pot am I going to run it dry in 30 mins?




Not unless you've only got 2lt's of wort in your 70lt pot....
Boil off as a percentage is not a constant. In the above example, of boiling 2lt's of wort for an hour...you'll be dry in a lot less time than that, which indicates boil off of over 100%.
Boil off percentage in my opinion is a useless figure, as it's completely dependant on the starting volume to calculate.
Boil off RATE is however, in most peoples systems a very constant figure. This figure will vary from one rig to the next though, due to the diameter of the equipment, but once you've worked out a rig's boil off, it's typically much the same from one batch to the next.
Example: you brew a recipe you've never done before. You're boil off is gonna typically be approx 5lt per hour... You really like the recipe, so you do it again, but this time you do a double batch. This time, you're boil off rate is gonna be the same, but the boil off % will pretty much be half of what it was for the single batch.
I seriously doubt 35% boiloff. Besides, even if the boil off is happening faster than expected, either turn the element off for a minute every 5 mins or so, or use it with a power attenuator/dimmer switch type thing to control the heating output.

Pretty nice looking element.

Immersion elements are one of the best additions a full volume boil brewer can have in their brewery.


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## lukasfab (23/10/12)

[/quote]

would this thing do doubles in a 70l pot?

getting a 70l soon so need to sort out how I'm going to boil wort


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## bignath (23/10/12)

lukasfab said:


> would this thing do doubles in a 70l pot?
> 
> getting a 70l soon so need to sort out how I'm going to boil wort



I seriously doubt it.

I have an immersion element too, do 47lt preboil on a double batch, and the immersion stays on the whole time, and i cut in and out with a $8 kettle element as required.
Without the $8 element, the immersion will hold a really gentle simmer, but it's better with a second heat source.

Id still buy an immersion element, but if doing doubles, you'll need a second option too.


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## fletcher (23/10/12)

Big Nath said:


> I seriously doubt it.
> 
> I have an immersion element too, do 47lt preboil on a double batch, and the immersion stays on the whole time, and i cut in and out with a $8 kettle element as required.
> Without the $8 element, the immersion will hold a really gentle simmer, but it's better with a second heat source.
> ...



yeah i figure i'll need this + stove top to get a decent rolling boil on a 30+ litre effort


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## flano (24/10/12)

I only do the 20 ltr pot with that element thingy.
I do 12 litres for mash in.
add a 6 litre sparge.
top up whats left from the bag squeeze with the sparge to nearly the top of the pot...then boil.

I have used it probably 40 times now.
Still going strong.

I reckon I lose about 10% maybe through evaporation.

I run a fairly loose ship though.


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## flano (24/10/12)

Also
I reckon it would safely do a 30ltr pot .

dunno about much bigger though.

here it is in action.

for the record I dont sit it on that wooden table any more either.


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## fletcher (24/10/12)

Flano said:


> I only do the 20 ltr pot with that element thingy.
> I do 12 litres for mash in.
> add a 6 litre sparge.
> top up whats left from the bag squeeze with the sparge to nearly the top of the pot...then boil.
> ...



so you end up with about 20 litres in total at the end to ferment? or 19/18/17ish? that's doable for me, or am i reading you wrong?


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## flano (24/10/12)

fletcher said:


> so you end up with about 20 litres in total at the end to ferment? or 19/18/17ish? that's doable for me, or am i reading you wrong?






no I use a 20 litre pot.

I end up with about 18 litres of wort after the BIAB mash process and sparge.

Probably only have about 14 or 15 litres at the end of the boil.

I just top up to approx 20 litres in the fermenter.

Depending on how strong I want my beer to be.


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## fletcher (24/10/12)

ah cool. thanks.


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## flano (25/10/12)

20 litres in the fermenter usually gives me beer around 5%

I have been doing a few 23 litre batches just to take the alc vol down a little bit...did one with 3.5kg of grain instead of the usual 4kg.
Got a nice 3.8% bright ale clone from it.


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