# American IPA



## Jordyt01 (4/4/13)

G'day 

Fairly new to brewing. Was think of doing an American style IPA. I have done a fair amount of research and used Ian's spreadsheet and come up with this. I would greatly appreciate thoughts/ideas on this. I have read on a few sites to use all DME as less chance for it to carmalize and burn during a small volume boil. 

Volume 23 litres 

Boil volume 10 Litres 

Light DME 2.5kg
Wheat DME 1.0kg
CaraRed 0.60 (steeped)

Centennial 15g @60 mins
Chinook 15g @30 mins
Amarillo 15g @15 mins
Centennial 15g @5 mins
Chinook 15g @5 mins
Amarillo 15g @5 mins

Dry hop with some Amarillo

OG 1.061
FG 1.015

Alc 6.4%

Please be kind it's my first attempt at a recipe. I really enjoy IPA's

All feedback ideas welcome 

Thanks in advance!


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## Jordyt01 (4/4/13)

Sorry IBU is 48.3 is this a bit low for an IPA?

Cheers


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## carniebrew (4/4/13)

Jordy, it's too hard to tell from the recipe what this might come out like. I think you'll need to drop me over a 6-pack once it's done and I'll let you know.....
:icon_drool2:


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## .DJ. (4/4/13)

you would need at least 60IBU to balnce this out I think....

I like to have a GU:BU of 1 for IPA's


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## lukiferj (4/4/13)

Jordyt01 said:


> Sorry IBU is 48.3 is this a bit low for an IPA?
> 
> Cheers


From the BJCP guidelines, IBUs are fine. (IBUs: 40 – 70)

Those hops will work well together. Should be a nice brew. Make sure you keep tasting notes and then you can work out how you would change it next time.


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## carniebrew (4/4/13)

It does look bloody good to me...from an AABC perspective (as used in Ian's spreadsheet), an AIPA can have 40-60 IBU, so nothing wrong with 48.

To answer a couple of your points, I've used all LME in 10 litre and smaller boils, with no caramelisation/burning issues whatsoever. Just remember to take the pot off the heat when adding your extract, and stir it in really well, before returning to the boil. And only add ~1kg of the DME to your boil initially, dump the rest in towards the very end of the boil.

What yeast are you planning on using?


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## Jordyt01 (4/4/13)

carniebrew said:


> Just remember to take the pot off the heat when adding your extract, and stir it in really well, before returning to the boil. And only add ~1kg of the DME to your boil initially, dump the rest in towards the very end of the boil.
> 
> What yeast are you planning on using?


Thanks for the tip!!

I was thinking of using US-05 as I have a packet already. Will that suit it or do you think I use something else?

@carniebrew


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## lukiferj (4/4/13)

US-05 will be fine. As long as you can maintain the temperature between 18-20 degrees.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (4/4/13)

I've had US05 down to 14 degrees in (Brisbane) winter. It's very slow, but it will continue to chomp away. I generally set my temprite to 17 degrees for US05, and was always happy with the result.


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## slash22000 (4/4/13)

It's going to be on the sweeter side compared to commercial IPA's you may have tried, not cloyingly sweet but it won't have that dry "bite" many people love in an IPA. If you love bitter IPA's, you are going to need higher IBU and/or less crystal malt, but the recipe as it stands will make a good beer.



> I really enjoy IPA's


It's hard to remember my life before IPA's. I mean, I know for a fact I was alive, but ... why?


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## Lecterfan (4/4/13)

Being extract and finishing around 1.015 I would definitely increase the IBUs to minimum 60 for my palate. I'd personally go for 65 or 70. It is a %6.4 beer so you need to know you are drinking something special.

48 IBUs in a beer made with 2.5kg DME (and then 600gms of carared) as the base and finishing at 1.015 won't taste particularly 'bitter'. Part of the charm of an AIPA is the resinous mouthfeel from all the hops, so - again, if it were me - I'd scrap the 30 minute addition and bump up the late (15 - 5 min) additions to bring your bitterness up and see how that works for you. This will give you the flavour and aroma kick, the resinous goodness and also increase the bitterness to a level that will suit this beer (guidelines are great, but experience tells us that things like ingredients and FG make a difference on the perception of bitterness).

Just my 2c.


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## carniebrew (4/4/13)

2c well spent I reckon. Jordy it might well be worth dropping down your batch size (and thereby your extract) for your first IPA....if you go with Lecterfan's suggestion and up it to ~60 IBU, along with it being 6.4%....it's not exactly a session beer, rather something enjoyed occasionally. Give some thought to doing say a 15 or 16 litre batch, and adjust your future IPA recipes according to how easy or hard you find your first one to enjoy.


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## slash22000 (4/4/13)

> ~60 IBU, along with it being 6.4%....it's not exactly a session beer


Says who? Just might be a shorter session with greater consequences next morning. 

Jordyt01, you might want to consider using some sugar in your recipe to dry it out a little. With all your crystal grain and wheat malt, you shouldn't have any problem with a thin body in your brew (and an IPA shouldn't really have a chewy mouthfeel anyway).

If I was brewing your recipe, I would cut out 300g of light DME and add 250g of sugar instead, the final product will be less sticky/sweet with the same ~6.4% ABV.


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## peterlonz (4/4/13)

Sugar !!
Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


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## seamad (4/4/13)

peterlonz said:


> Sugar !!
> Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
> Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
> The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
> IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


Nearly all belgian beers have sugar ( dubbels/tripels etc), some up @ 22%


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## slash22000 (4/4/13)

> since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.


In the event you're not trolling, here's a random example: Pliny The Elder - Russian River Brewing Company - 5% dextrose and one of the most famous IPA's in the world.

Obviously I don't have a comprehensive list of commercial recipes on hand, given most of them aren't released to the public, but _many_ homebrewers use a portion of dextrose/sucrose in beers intended to be very dry (IPA's, pale ales, etc), usually around 5% of the bill. Go on Google and search around.

The whole "sugar ruins beer" thing is an absolute myth, unless it's 90% of your fermentables or something. In the case of my recommendation in this specific case, the small addition addition of dextrose I recommended will knock a few points off the final gravity and help offset the sweetness of the large quantity of crystal malt and the "sweetness" of extract in general. Travesty, yeah?



> Belgians don't & never have.


Seriously? No sugar in Belgian beer? **** me sideways.


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## Yob (4/4/13)

peterlonz said:


> Sugar !!
> Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
> Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
> The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
> IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


In reading the well researched IPA book recently (by Mitch Steele - Stone Brewing Company - Still reading) IPA's most certainly did at one point.. Oh my yes... most certainly.. ed: Tax related as I remember

many still do to help get a drier finish.. oh my yes.. For my bigger beers, ~1070 I like to feed them a little bit as they approach 1020 to help them along a bit... does wonders to help them get those last 5 points and mop up.. Id like you to be able to pick any sugar..


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## Jordyt01 (4/4/13)

Thanks everyone for the feedback it's greatly appreciated! 

I will have a fiddle around tomorrow with the recipe and let you all know what I end up going with. 

I never thought of adding a small amount of sugar/dextrose so thanks for that idea!

Cheers


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## /// (4/4/13)

May have made an IPA or 2 in my time, with some silverware for the efforts at the Beer Awards.

7%, 70 BU is the standard. Last time I was at White Labs they commented how they ran 50 IA's thru the lab and 49 of them were in that range.

I'd cut out all those additions, at them all at the whirlpool. With that, bitter to about 50% of your target BU, dump in about 3-4 gms a litre at whirlpool (will get flavour and the remaining bitterness) and then dry hop to about the same amount.The late hops will give you approx 50% bitterness at those amounts. I have tested it in a spectrophotomer and the results reflect this.

With a high temp mash mine finishes off at about 1.018-1.020, with a small smattering of crystal. Using extract, just use 100% malt extract.


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## drewstertherooster (4/4/13)

Hi Jordy. Cheers for the thread. I'm a new brewer looking to make an AIPA for my next brew too. The advice you've drawn is really helpful to me too, so I thought I might hijack the thread a touch. I was planning a Cascade SHIPA, or possibly might stick with the Summer I've already got (and get some more of it).
23 L batch, 10 L boil.

3kg Coopers Light LME
1.5kg Briess Munich LME
0.3kg Candi Sugar - Amber
40g Cascade 6.4% 60mins - 24IBU
50g Cascade 6.4% 20mins - 18IBU
50g Cascade 6.4% 10mins - 11IBU
40g Cascade 6.4% 0mins
10g Brewbrite
US-05 @ 18-20C

OG - 1.057, FG 1.013
ABV 5.9%

Based on the advice on this thread I'm thinking swap the candi sugar for sugar? I was thinking candi sugar partly for the colour and partly because a lot of the AIPAs I've had from the US do seem to have a real sweetness to the malt to back up the bitterness. Granted those have been some out there ones with probably more late hopping and more IBUs in general. Further advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Drew


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## /// (4/4/13)

" Further advice would be much appreciated."

Yep, dump all those hops in at the whirlpool.

Scotty


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## pmash (4/4/13)

peterlonz said:


> Sugar !!
> Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
> Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
> The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
> IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


Wrong....even original British IPA brewers added sugar to cut (malted barley) costs!


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## stakka82 (4/4/13)

Listen to ///


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## slash22000 (5/4/13)

OP is new to brewing. ///'s technique is likely a good one but it's not exactly beginner instructions. Actually kind of hard to understand what /// is saying, and I know what he/she is talking about.

Not to mention the talk of finishing at 1.018 - 1.020 ... What sort of IPA finishes at 1.020? Quadruple IPA?


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## stakka82 (5/4/13)

/// said:


> May have made an IPA or 2 in my time, with some silverware for the efforts at the Beer Awards.
> 
> 7%, 70 BU is the standard. Last time I was at White Labs they commented how they ran 50 IA's thru the lab and 49 of them were in that range.
> 
> ...


Not insanely complex - add half of your IBU at whirlpool (or flame out for an extract brewer), and if ' Using extract, just use 100% malt extract'.


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## tiprya (5/4/13)

peterlonz said:


> Sugar !!
> Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
> Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
> The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
> IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


Bit more reading on Belgian brewing is required....

I think using a bit of sugar in an IPA to lighten the body and make the hops hit harder is a perfectly acceptable approach.


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## Mardoo (5/4/13)

Jordyt01 said:


> Light DME 2.5kg
> Wheat DME 1.0kg
> CaraRed 0.60 (steeped)


That looks like a CRAPLOAD of wheat! In my admittedly limited experience with Wheat DME more than 20% REALLY stands out, and 5 to 10 might be more what you're looking for, and you're up around 32%. Or maybe you're shooting for a WeiPA, a hefeweizen IPA?

HOWEVER, it'd be better for you to listen to someone with more experience than I! Can someone else weigh in on this?

Also maybe give the BrewStrong IPA podcast a listen. You can download it free from the Brewing Network or iTunes. This forum and those shows are the most helpful things for me.


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## tiprya (5/4/13)

The wheat DME is only 50% wheat, so that brings it down to 14% which isn't too bad.

There's no need for wheat in it though if you've got more LDME.


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## Jordyt01 (5/4/13)

@mardoo was just going to use what I have

do you think the 1.0kg of wheat DME will have a massive effect on the flavor? or will it be fine to use

I was hoping to get a subtle wheat flavor @tiprya

cheers


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## mckenry (5/4/13)

peterlonz said:


> Sugar !!
> Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
> Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
> The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
> IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


Hi peterlonz
Maybe you left your session unnattended and someone else wrote this?? (The Germans dont use it because theyre not allowed.)
If not, sugar has its place. Great for thinning body and maintaining alc %, which is why it is used in IPA's. There is a fair bit of caramel in a lot of them and if sugar was not used, it would be so cloying.
Another great example of sugar in an IPA is the one I'm brewing today 
All australian ingredients, including 1kg white sugar in 53L.


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## tiprya (5/4/13)

Jordyt01 said:


> @mardoo was just going to use what I have
> 
> do you think the 1.0kg of wheat DME will have a massive effect on the flavor? or will it be fine to use
> 
> ...


It'll be fine, just use what you've got.


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## seamad (5/4/13)

tiprya said:


> The wheat DME is only 50% wheat, so that brings it down to 14% which isn't too bad.
> 
> There's no need for wheat in it though if you've got more LDME.


Depends on brand of wheat dme, eg Breiss is 65/35 and muntons is 55/45, so still a fair amount of wheat, the coopers liquid wheat malt is 50/50.


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## drewstertherooster (5/4/13)

The 'Deliverance' one at TWOC says it's 50/50 and I thought they said they got there's from Briess and repackaged it?


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## seamad (5/4/13)

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWBavarianWheatDME.pdf


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## /// (5/4/13)

slash22000 said:


> OP is new to brewing. ///'s technique is likely a good one but it's not exactly beginner instructions. Actually kind of hard to understand what /// is saying, and I know what he/she is talking about.
> 
> Not to mention the talk of finishing at 1.018 - 1.020 ... What sort of IPA finishes at 1.020? Quadruple IPA?


Sarcasm button on, an IPA that finishes at 1.020 is a balanced one!

With the amount of hopping, having a beer that finished at 1.010 will be out of wack. As I eluded, I also do not use alot of crystal, and the Southern Cali versions I had last year did not either, a light dusting is all that is needed. For full grain brewing, munich is used alot as well.

So 50% of your BU's into your boil, 50% from the whirlpool step is the approach. You will get the bitterness if using any hops over 10% aa.

As an example, a light ale I make at 1.041 using topaz and galaxy, I bitter to 8 BU with the whirlpool of 10 minutes and a 45 min run-off gives an additional 17 BU's. I've ran these thru a spectro, so the numbers are right. 

I am assuming the wort will be boiled?


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## glaab (5/4/13)

use 1kg dex per 50L in extract AIPA's/ APA's, should finish around 1014 with 05. without the dex the body doesnt seem right


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## monkeybusiness (5/4/13)

/// said:


> So 50% of your BU's into your boil, 50% from the whirlpool step is the approach. You will get the bitterness if using any hops over 10% aa.
> 
> As an example, a light ale I make at 1.041 using topaz and galaxy, I bitter to 8 BU with the whirlpool of 10 minutes and a 45 min run-off gives an additional 17 BU's. I've ran these thru a spectro, so the numbers are right.


It's interesting to hear you say this Scotty as I've always suspected that my beersmith calculations for bitterness did not match up with the percieved bitterness and put it down to getting more IBU's out of the late additions than is conventionally accepted.

My method usually end up like this:
flameout followed by 10min for convection to settle down
whirlpool followed by 10-15min for whirlpool & cone to settle
runoff (usually no-chill) over 10-15min.
(if I'm organised, but usually the process takes longer as I'm easily distracted).

So the 0min hops end up being 40-50min additions. Explains why my galaxy pale ale with 50g of 14%AA at whirlpool punches me in the face when I drink it!

Is that the way you read it Scotty or is there something else at work here?

Sorry for dragging OT but it kinda relates to IPAs... h34r:


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## /// (5/4/13)

Yep Adrian, whatever the beer i get min 30% of BU's from the whirlpool. The lager we make has a shit ton of saaz and Hall. in the whirlpool, and it is a 30% contribution.


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## Nick JD (5/4/13)

Sounds tasty, ///.


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## Yob (5/4/13)

Most of the AIPA's I brew these days have (without looking at notes) approx 50% of the BU come from 5 - 0 and WP additions.. natural evolution of experimentation

:icon_drool2:


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## manticle (5/4/13)

peterlonz said:


> Sugar !!
> Guys - since when has any good beer been based on a sugar addition.
> Name me one commercial brewer that uses sugar.
> The Germans & Belgians don't & never have.
> IPA has a tradition & it does not involve sugar.


I know it's been mentioned more than once but where on earth did you get this garbage from?

Please do some reading. I'll grant sugar is not big in German brewing but to suggest Belgians don't use it or that UK brewing history doesn't include sugar is pure falsehood.


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## waggastew (5/4/13)

+1 opinion about wheat in IPA. This recipe won the AIPA section at the Nats last year. 1.5kg of Coopers liquid malt extract. It is on the more body end of the scale but not out of style. Notice also the use of 400g of dex to dry it out. Ends at 1016-18 but is nicely balanced

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/40767-what-are-you-brewing-iii/?p=988965


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## Nick JD (5/4/13)

Sugar is great in IPAs. Otherwise they finish with high FGs and can be cloying. Even when mashed really low.


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## Mardoo (5/4/13)

waggastew said:


> +1 opinion about wheat in IPA. This recipe won the AIPA section at the Nats last year. 1.5kg of Coopers liquid malt extract. It is on the more body end of the scale but not out of style. Notice also the use of 400g of dex to dry it out. Ends at 1016-18 but is nicely balanced
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/40767-what-are-you-brewing-iii/?p=988965


Jordyt01 clearly this is a good dude to be listening to about wheat in IPA's.


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## /// (6/4/13)

Love the old sugar chestnut, sugar is not dirty word. If you keep the Crystals of the world right the way down then the higher finish can be managed.

The reason why I like making this beer in the brewhouse is that it requires good technique to pull it off. I also like that i get to stick more than 12 kgs of dry hops into the tank, hoppy hoppy goodness!

I'm up for samples by the way ...


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## jaymzica (13/5/13)

i did my first ipa brew the other night. i think i made the rookie mistake of adding my first tine of LME while its on the boil and as a result it might of burnt some of it hence seeing few little black flecks bubbling around...
should i tip it out or just leave it and see how it goes? will it make a massive difference?


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## Jace89 (13/5/13)

jaymzica said:


> i did my first ipa brew the other night. i think i made the rookie mistake of adding my first tine of LME while its on the boil and as a result it might of burnt some of it hence seeing few little black flecks bubbling around...
> should i tip it out or just leave it and see how it goes? will it make a massive difference?


How did it taste going into the fermenter?
I'd hang and just find out, especially if you already pitched the yeast.
Hops can be quite handy in masking some faults, but maybe the burnt flavors (if any) will be to intense.

You'll have beer at the end also!


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## black_labb (13/5/13)

/// said:


> Sarcasm button on, an IPA that finishes at 1.020 is a balanced one!
> 
> With the amount of hopping, having a beer that finished at 1.010 will be out of wack. As I eluded, I also do not use alot of crystal, and the Southern Cali versions I had last year did not either, a light dusting is all that is needed. For full grain brewing, munich is used alot as well.
> 
> ...



Could you elaborate a bit on the system that you did these tests on? was it the commercial setup or a homebrewing setup? What kind of time do leave it in for whirlpool, is it immersion chilled (all chilled at once) or CFC/plate chiller? Most importantly do you suspect much difference?


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## /// (13/5/13)

black_labb said:


> Could you elaborate a bit on the system that you did these tests on? was it the commercial setup or a homebrewing setup? What kind of time do leave it in for whirlpool, is it immersion chilled (all chilled at once) or CFC/plate chiller? Most importantly do you suspect much difference?


Yep, on a 1200l, 1800l and 5000l system with a 10 minute whirlpool and a 45 - 55 minute run off via a 2 stage heat ex on all 3 systems. Tests were via a photospectrometer and we've done lots of the testing across our 5 beers to get that data.

For the different times of chilling, regardless of the type of chilling, the key thing is exposure and contact time of the hops to the hot wort. The alphas will continue to burn off regardless. 

Did that help?


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## black_labb (13/5/13)

/// said:


> Yep, on a 1200l, 1800l and 5000l system with a 10 minute whirlpool and a 45 - 55 minute run off via a 2 stage heat ex on all 3 systems. Tests were via a photospectrometer and we've done lots of the testing across our 5 beers to get that data.
> 
> For the different times of chilling, regardless of the type of chilling, the key thing is exposure and contact time of the hops to the hot wort. The alphas will continue to burn off regardless.
> 
> Did that help?


Yes, confirmed my thoughts. Thanks


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