# Heat Pad Or Heat Belt



## BitterBulldog

Ok, i've decided i don't want to brew & drink lagers now that it's getting cooler (& in general i can't hack lagers anymore) 

Even though i haven't even tasted my currently fermenting ESB Bavarian Lager :unsure: 

or haven't even tasted my currently bottled virgin homebrew 'Amber ale'. 

Geez, i'm a fussy bastard aren't i !

I'd much rather do some stouts & strong ales for the winter.

ok, enough about me...

i was thinking of getting a heat pad or belt. 

the price dif at my local hbs is only $10. so i was wondering if there is much difference between the 2?


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## Adamt

Where are you and what is the climate like? Those heat pads/belts always seem to completely nuke the ferment rather than keep it at a good temperature (20C). If anything I'd go the belt to avoid directly heating the trub.


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## reviled

Adamt said:


> Where are you and what is the climate like? Those heat pads/belts always seem to completely nuke the ferment rather than keep it at a good temperature (20C). If anything I'd go the belt to avoid directly heating the trub.



I have a belt for this same reason, allthough my mate disagrees with me and uses a heat pad. They do give off an imense amount of heat in the one spot, which must cause higher ferm temps even if it is only in that one area? Which could in effect put off flavours in the whole batch...

I try to avoid it at all costs and when I do ill flick it on and off periodically to make sure it doesnt get too hot, and ill move it round heaps as well...


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## Sammus

or use one of the fridgemate style temp controllers - thats what I do, if anything at all (more for a diacytal rest in the middle of winter).

Most of the time the active yeast will keep the temp up enough - I recently brewed a russian imperial stout, and pitched the yeast at 16C, within a day the temp sensor on the outside of the fermentor was up to 20C - who knows how much warmer it was in the middle.


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## brendo

I use heat pads, but I generally put them down the side of the fermenter so it is not heating the trub.

I also use an old single bed doona as insulation.

Brendo


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## Dazza_devil

Heat pad here but it never comes into contact with my fermenter. It's connected to my tempmate and sits at the bottom of my brew fridge. 
Cheers.


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## Verbyla

I've been using a heating pad and have recently purchased a TempMate to regulate the fermenters temperature so that it doesn't "nuke" the fermenter and only get it to maintain the temperature you want. 

I'd strong recommend buying a TempMate with the heating device you end up buy, if you don't already have one, as it will mean that you don't have to continually turn the heating device on and off and will be given a more consistent temperature. 

I don't think it really matters what you use as long as the temperature is regulated.


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## BitterBulldog

i'm in Sydney - Chatswood. It hasn't gotten too cold yet. 

I haven't even moved my fermenter outside to the garage yet  still babying it inside! :lol: 

I jumped the gun a little getting the Bav lager already. It's been fermenting at 22-18 for a week.

Would have been perfect for another ale... dammit!!!

I will be moving my fermenter into a underground garage for my next (maybe <_< ) for my next brew.

It's about 10 or lower degrees in the night down there atm & will be dropping from here on in.

So if i want to do anything other than lagers a belt is my best bet? or should i just go with the flow & get lagers going? ( & buy a case of Coopers Extra Stout)


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## Adamt

Weather sounds perfect for me... ferment ales inside, lagers under the house.

There's no reason a lager can't be a winter beer either.. investigate the schwarzbier, bock and doppelbock styles!


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## BitterBulldog

Adamt said:


> Weather sounds perfect for me... ferment ales inside, lagers under the house.
> 
> There's no reason a lager can't be a winter beer either.. investigate the schwarzbier, bock and doppelbock styles!




Yes, i like Dark Lagers!

i think i'll do as you said & brew ales inside & lagers out. 

may aswell invest in another fermenter :wub: instead of buying heating pad & tempmate


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## bum

Boagsy said:


> Heat pad here but it never comes into contact with my fermenter.



+1

I use mine to raise "ambient" temp in the fridge now that it's getting colder here is SE Melbourne. Put a timer on the heat pad (15 min every 2 hours during the day and 15 min every hour on cold nights seems to see me right) and leave the fridgemate in cooling mode in case the heatpad goes out of control.


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## Gulpa

Has anyone ever thought about using an electric blanket. I look at those belts/pads at the LHBS and because I need 2 for double batches, the price seems excessive. You can pick up a single electric blanket for $20-30 if you look. Is there a downside?

Thanks
Andrew.


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## bum

Electric blankets seem to get a lot hotter than my heatpad. Would take a lot of checking to make sure you're not too hot with an electric blanket, IMO. I'm sure someone here has done/does it though.

EDIT: typo


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## Sammus

electric blankets are like 100-200W, a belt is about 25W. I think with that kind of heating power you would more easily unevenly heat the wort.

If you had your temp sensor on the outside of the fermentor, it would probably get up to temp before the wort has changed much. If you used a thermowell in the middle of your wort, the brew would probably be significantly hotter than the reading in the centre of it. Sure there's a bit of mixing from convection, but I still cant imagine it being enough to even out the whole temperature with 200W of heating power at the surface.


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## ianh

Hi

Brewing in the garage in Tassie, I use a fish tank heater to heat my brews to 20C, the lowest setting.

Has an inbuilt thermostat so it does not need any adjustments or timers.

cheers

Ian


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## manticle

I used to use a heat belt for my kk brews. Sometimes got up to 28 and fermented out in 4 days!

I don't touch the thing now. Two dressing gowns on my belgian dubbel and that's all it'll get.


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## tommygun

A 40l square container filled with water and some bleach sit the fermenter in there and a fish tank heater to heat the water. Kept the fermenter perfect 20*c even on a frosty winter morning sitting in the garage. The only prob is the temp gauge on the fish tank heaters are always a few degrees off and so need to be monitored when first used. Because of the large amount of contact it really eliminates hot spots.

Tom


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## seemax

25W aquarium heater, plenty enough heat for 25L of wort

ordered mine online, does 17-32C, $25 delivered, cheaper than a belt/pad and has a thermostat


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## RobboMC

BitterBulldog said:


> Yes, i like Dark Lagers!
> 
> i think i'll do as you said & brew ales inside & lagers out.
> 
> may aswell invest in another fermenter :wub: instead of buying heating pad & tempmate



I live in Sydney with your climate. Last winter I did a black lager, simply got a can of Dark Ale,
added some fermentables that you can choose yourself, and a sachet of Saflager.
Fermented in the garage at 14 deg C in July. No heatpad, no fuss.

Dark lager and black lager are one of those brewing secrets that took me years to discover,
very few commercial beers around to sample, but really easy to make.
everyone that starts out in Aust. wants to make VB or Coopers Sparkling Ale clones.

These lagers are great drinking beer IMHO. Schwarzbier made to style is around 5% abv,
and quite malty, but the Czechs have the sense to put hops in their black lager; and there's a
version with just over 6% abv that really is a very special drop. Just add 3kg of malty fermentables 
and boil in 50g of Saaz.

Got the temp up to 18 deg C before bottling to make sure fermentation was over by putting it in the sun for a weekend.
A heating device might be useful in the future for this and also for a dycetal rest which is basically the same idea, heat to 18 deg C for a day or two to help the yeast finish off any nasties.

But forget about making ales in winter just becasue it's too cold. If you like dark beers, make dark lager and enjoy it!


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## Leigh

Sammus said:


> electric blankets are like 100-200W, a belt is about 25W. I think with that kind of heating power you would more easily unevenly heat the wort.
> 
> If you had your temp sensor on the outside of the fermentor, it would probably get up to temp before the wort has changed much. If you used a thermowell in the middle of your wort, the brew would probably be significantly hotter than the reading in the centre of it. Sure there's a bit of mixing from convection, but I still cant imagine it being enough to even out the whole temperature with 200W of heating power at the surface.



The heat has to go somewhere??? and it has to equilibrate???

I know a brewer that gets good control of his brews using an electric blanket...he has checked the temp in both the wort and the surface of the fermentor and while Sammus' statement is true (in terms of a temp gradient existing) for the first hour or so, the temp probes read close enough to each other after that...

From memory he uses a single bed electric blanket on it's lowest setting (5 settings) and only wraps the bottom half of his Coopers fermenter.


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## Renegade

Or try an aquarium heater, it has its own built in temp control ! Set & forget, what could be easier? I'm going to try and rig one into my fermenter over the weekend, I'll let you know how it goes.


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## RagingBull

unfortunately i've just stumbled across this thread.

Have had the base of my fermenter in contact with the heat pad for the last 48hours. Its inside my temp controlled fridge supposedly at 18degC, however this direct contact (heating the trub) would probably give off some harsh flavours? bad experiences with this happening anyone.. ?


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## reviled

RagingBull said:


> unfortunately i've just stumbled across this thread.
> 
> Have had the base of my fermenter in contact with the heat pad for the last 48hours. Its inside my temp controlled fridge supposedly at 18degC, however this direct contact (heating the trub) would probably give off some harsh flavours? bad experiences with this happening anyone.. ?



Try not to worry about it, despite my comments above ive done it before as well and didnt notice anything, but its just a precaution more than anything as to why I dont these days...


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## RagingBull

reviled said:


> Try not to worry about it, despite my comments above ive done it before as well and didnt notice anything, but its just a precaution more than anything as to why I dont these days...




mm.. a precaution i'll be taking tonight when i get home. 

Cheers,


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## pingdong

Im getting close to doing my first ag mash. I have bought wyeast 1056 and from what i can gather 19degrees is the go? I have a heat pad and pid controller and was planning to do it in a fridge. Im i on the right track or should i look into fish tank heater? Sound nice and simple.


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## browndog

Mad Matt said:


> Im getting close to doing my first ag mash. I have bought wyeast 1056 and from what i can gather 19degrees is the go? I have a heat pad and pid controller and was planning to do it in a fridge. Im i on the right track or should i look into fish tank heater? Sound nice and simple.




I have a tempmate that is hooked to the fridge and to two heat belts around the fermenter, one in the lower third the other in the upper third, I believe this to be the ideal set up to maintain a constant temp. A PID is overkill for fermentation temp control though, are you using it in on/off control or PID though an SSR?, no reason you could not use two heat belts yourself.

cheers

Browndog


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## white.grant

I had a heat belt and used it in conjunction with a tempmate, it was ok until it decided to melt itself. I got a heat mat after that and now just sit the fermenter on top of it wothout any ill effects. 

I think the heating trub issue is overstated at least for the conditions I experience in wollongong, mine heat mat is hardly ever on.

cheers

grant


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## gavcol

seemax said:


> 25W aquarium heater, plenty enough heat for 25L of wort
> 
> ordered mine online, does 17-32C, $25 delivered, cheaper than a belt/pad and has a thermostat





Same here, I got a fish pond heater for $28, 
Why waste time and money with heat pads or heat blankets...... they're inefficient, use more power and waste heat.

Drop yer fishpond/aquarium heater in the middle of the brew and all heat goes to the brew.
It has a thermostat so it doesn't burn yer brew.

set at 25degrees and watch your brew ferment aggressively in 2 days....... right smack in the middle of winter.... bloody ripper !!!!


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## manticle

GavCol said:


> set at 25degrees and watch your brew ferment aggressively in 2 days



Thanks but no thanks.


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## felten

Not very good advice, a 25c ferment is going to throw up all kinds of esters not to mention bad fusel alcohols. Unless you're brewing a saison or something, but even then you don't want to start at 25, you want to end there after a week.


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## JestersDarts

GavCol 

Posts: 1
Joined: 15-October 09



Silence for 6 months, then this?

AARGH!!


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## gavcol

felten said:


> Not very good advice, a 25c ferment is going to throw up all kinds of esters not to mention bad fusel alcohols. Unless you're brewing a saison or something, but even then you don't want to start at 25, you want to end there after a week.




What ??
Nothing wrong with Esters, each yeast has its own ester profile...... depending on the flavour you want, esters can add a fruity spicy flavour, though I agree they can be a bit volatile.

Also, I'm not brewing lager !! fusel alcohols are bad for lager yes... but not ale (depending on yer point of view)
Even the advice in a coopers kit states "best temperature is between 20 -27 deg" and it also says it will work between 18-32 deg but I don't use this kit or agree with these higher temps. 
Also, advice here says "Firstly start with a temperature of 19-26C (ideally 22-24C)"

I'm top fermenting at 25c and I haven't had a bung beer yet.
Even some of the safale yeasts (us56 and s04 I think) are meant to be brewed between 18 to 24c 

Either way..... the thread and my comments were centered around the type of heating and device used. 
If you don't want to heat at 25c then don't... you can set your own temp with the thermostat.
My advice still stands..... an internal heater is better than the external alternatives.


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## gavcol

JestersDarts said:


> GavCol
> 
> Posts: 1
> Joined: 15-October 09
> 
> 
> 
> Silence for 6 months, then this?
> 
> AARGH!!




Silence only because I was working on average 80+ hours a week for the past 8 months
Even my kids hardly ever saw me.


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## felten

I won't argue with you, there is plenty of differing advice out there and you can pick and choose what you want to


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## jakub76

25C is way too high but if you can't taste the difference then I say go for it and enjoy the quicker turnaround.

Heat belt or pad...I use a lamp. Picked it up at Lifeline for $5, hooked up to my ebay temp controller and sits inside the fridge with a 40W bulb and a terracotta pot over the top. I have my temp sensor taped to the side of the fermenter and insulated with about 1cm of cardboard. Works a treat.


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## JestersDarts

jakub76 said:


> 25C is way too high but if you can't taste the difference then I say go for it and enjoy the quicker turnaround.
> 
> Heat belt or pad...I use a lamp. Picked it up at Lifeline for $5, hooked up to my ebay temp controller and sits inside the fridge with a 40W bulb and a terracotta pot over the top. I have my temp sensor taped to the side of the fermenter and insulated with about 1cm of cardboard. Works a treat.



This is near exactly what I do 
the only difference is the light socket was in the shed, 
the cardboard is stubbie holder.

Its spot on. 
No need for a heater inside the fermenter and all the probelms that go along with it..
this keeps it around 1.5-2 degress fluctuation at most.

and the beauty of it is - you dont have to touch it. Just tape the probe to the next fermenter.

Enjoy!


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## Yob

GavCol said:


> What ??
> Nothing wrong with Esters,
> 
> :icon_vomit:
> 
> 
> Also, I'm not brewing lager !! fusel alcohols are bad for lager yes... but not ale (depending on yer point of view)
> Even the advice in a coopers kit states "best temperature is between 20 -27 deg"



I believe this to be in relation to the kit yeast only, which is designed to be used by brewers that probably dont have temp controll sorted out... My first brew (put down on the first day of Melbournes Heat wave.. without temp control).. fermented out quite rapidy as it was cooking.. the resulting brew was almost, but not quite completely undrinkable shit.. though having said that I accidently put one of the few reamining bottles (edit) (of my first Brew) in the fridge last week and it was.. well it was shit.. but better shit than it *was*, I reckon if I give the last 6 bottles another 6 months thay may come good  ...mebee.. 

I'd much prefer to brew something I can drink a month later not a year..
As you say, it can come down to personal taste... me... esters.. No thanks.. US-05 @ 16-18 :chug: for Ale is my poison.. oh yes and a heat pad under the fermenter.. but *have* noted some earlier posts on the positioning under the trub... hmmm will think about that one... makes some sence though.

I say if it's good for your taste buds then you are doing no wrong, I just wouldnt personally like any of it.

Brew long... Drink well
:icon_cheers:


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## drsmurto

I am in the market for another heat pad after acquiring a few of the knock off tempmates from ebay.

Stumbled across a few pet heat pads which appear to have a similar wattage as the brewing heat pads but are half the price.

Dog/Cat/Bird heat pad

Reptile heat pad

Anyone use these? 

The first one has a rating of 10W and the second, 14W. From memory brewing heatpads are 10W?


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## WSC

DrSmurto said:


> I am in the market for another heat pad after acquiring a few of the knock off tempmates from ebay.
> 
> Stumbled across a few pet heat pads which appear to have a similar wattage as the brewing heat pads but are half the price.
> 
> Dog/Cat/Bird heat pad
> 
> Reptile heat pad
> 
> Anyone use these?
> 
> The first one has a rating of 10W and the second, 14W. From memory brewing heatpads are 10W?



I have been looking at these.

I reckon the 10w will be better as it has no thermostat.

The reptile one has a built in thermostat whcih is not really needed if you have a tempmate, not sure how it would work cause you effectively will have two temp contollers.


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## Spork

It gets bloody cold here (Tassie, up in the hills) and my ferment fridge is outside. The heat belt struggles to maintain temps, although this isn't a problem when the ferment is fast for the first few days.

I needed a new hydrometer after breaking mine, so I got a plastic one, along with the rest of a Coopers kit.  Now I have a 2nd FV, so I might as well use it. Have ordered another STC 1000 from evilbay, and am shopping for another cheap fridge / freezer. Trying to find the best, cheapest solution to heating it. Flower-pot and light bulb is out, as can no longer buy incandescent bulbs... Some cheap alternatives might be: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT one of these in a light fitting, one of these http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT coiled around the FV, or just around the interior of the 'fridge, or one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT, but on the side / back of the fridge, or maybe on the side of th FV (not under it) itself.
Did think of an aquarium heater immersed in a basin with the FV sitting in that, but pretty sure I'd end up busting it by dropping the full FV on it and probably electrocuting myself in the process...


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## Wolfy

I prefer any method that works as a 'space heater' for my fermenting fridge, a brew-belt did that until the thing burnt out, then I used a fish-tank heater immersed in a bottle of water, but now I use a water-bed heat pad, combined with a cheap digital controller they all work much the same, and involve no contact with the beer or fermentor.


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## gambit

Just finished building a new heater for my fermentor fridge, using a 50W 8.2 Ohm resistor, which I will be running off 12 Vac. As can be seen in the attached pic I have mounted it on a heatsink to help radiate the heat. By my calculation this should give me around 17.5 W of heat. 

The cost of this heater is $4.35 for the resistor and heatsing was around $9.00. I already had a monster transformer lying around. I intend to mount the ransformer next to the refridgerator motor and run the 12 V wiring up through the drain pipe. The Mains side of the transformer is plugged into the heating side of my STC 1000 controller. I am much happier messing around with 12 V inside my fridge than 230V.

Any 12 V transformer / power supply can be used for this, dc or ac. Care needs to be take to make sure the STC 1000 is switching the mains / ac side of a dc powersupply as the switching relay will not last too long switching dc.





:icon_chickcheers:


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## tomdavis

Wow.. top marks on the geekery, gambit. Looks great!

I am currently using a light globe, which is sitting inside a terracotta plant pot which stores the heat pretty well, but I feel it would be better with some air circulation in my fridge. 

I was thinking about using an old PC power supply, like this to generate some warmth





as it comes complete with in-built fan, anyone else had any luck trying this?


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## Spork

Great thinking Carlos - I have one of those sitting around gathering dust... Not sure how much heat they will generate under no load however.
@ Gambit - +9000 for geeky top marks on making your own space heater.
I'm clearly not thinking far enough outside the square.
Anywho, I went with the reptile heating cord thingy. Will be super simple to thread it through the drain hole I reckon, and very adjustable

Anyone want to buy a 320w fridge heater? AKA computer PSU?.


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