# Stuck Sparge %*%#



## Back Yard Brewer (9/4/07)

You know what its like. The previous day you meticulously set up your AG gear. You wake up in the morning get the water hot,you dough in, you sit back and wait for the water a grains to convert then away you go doing your sparge. All of a sudden the flow stops and BANG!! you have a F%@%*ing stuck sparge. This happened to me this morning. My 4th AG and first stuck sparge. I have done a quick search and could not find an answer to the stuck sparge. Any info on how to avoid it and how you can fix it when it does happen would be of help!! I ended up emptyimg my tun to clear it, again what a pain in the %&%[email protected]*g arse. As you may be aware I was a little frustrated. All is well now and the boild is now happening. Oh btw I underlett when doughing in and I do the batch sparge routine. I find I have achieved better efficiency. 


BYB


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## mika (9/4/07)

Stuck sparges can be down to many things, bad luck being one of them. If the crush is too fine it may clog up and result in a stuck sparge. I batch sparge but never crack the tap open fully for fear of compacting the grain bed and sticking it all. Still I run off in ~5mins. I've heard someone say that for the most part homebrewers don't run off quick enough, but not sure about that.
To clear I think a lot of people get in there with the mash paddle and stir like crazy. Means you need to re-circ, but then you should be able to get on with the job.

What manifold you using ?


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## oldbugman (9/4/07)

you can try stirring up the grain bed, letting it setting and recirculating your run offs again.






some others have blow up the hose to unstick it.


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## domonsura (9/4/07)

BYB said:


> You know what its like. The previous day you meticulously set up your AG gear. You wake up in the morning get the water hot,you dough in, you sit back and wait for the water a grains to convert then away you go doing your sparge. All of a sudden the flow stops and BANG!! you have a F%@%*ing stuck sparge. This happened to me this morning. My 4th AG and first stuck sparge. I have done a quick search and could not find an answer to the stuck sparge. Any info on how to avoid it and how you can fix it when it does happen would be of help!! I ended up emptyimg my tun to clear it, again what a pain in the %&%[email protected]*g arse. As you may be aware I was a little frustrated. All is well now and the boild is now happening. Oh btw I underlett when doughing in and I do the batch sparge routine. I find I have achieved better efficiency.
> BYB


 They're not much fun when they happen are they? A couple of questions for you.

What sort of mashtun, & manifold/false bottom do you have? Did you figure out if it was compacting of the grain bed, or had grain made it through into the wrong place and blocked an outlet up?

What was the grist made up of, and how fine was the grind?

There a couple of things you can do depending on what exactly has caused the issue in the first place. Let us know, I'm sure there will be solutions for you.


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/4/07)

domonsura said:


> They're not much fun when they happen are they? A couple of questions for you.
> 
> What sort of mashtun, & manifold/false bottom do you have? Did you figure out if it was compacting of the grain bed, or had grain made it through into the wrong place and blocked an outlet up?
> 
> ...



Round 15ltr daddy cool with round 10" false bottom. From what I saw it seemed to have compacted on the bottom. Grain consisted of 4.5kg of marris Otter, 420g crystal malt, 100g dark crystal,160g torrified wheat. I had all the grain pre-cracked from my local HBS. I actually had two seperate ones made up. One I made about 6 weeks ago with no problems.

BYB


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## devo (9/4/07)

I hear ya, that's one of the main reasons I put my tun outlet on the bottom with no bends/right angles so that in the case of a stuck sparge I could easily clear the obstruction with a thin rod.


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## Jazzafish (9/4/07)

Happen from time to time...

I had one threatening to get stuck yesterday... very slow run off. I just blow back up the tube to clear the obstruction, stirr and let settle, then recirculate and continue from there.


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## TidalPete (9/4/07)

mika_lika said:


> I batch sparge but never crack the tap open fully for fear of compacting the grain bed and sticking it all. Still I run off in ~5mins.



I am very interested in this mika. If you batch sparge & run off in 5 minutes (sounds fast to me??), what kind of efficiency do you get?

:beer:


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/4/07)

Jazzafish said:


> Happen from time to time...
> 
> I had one threatening to get stuck yesterday... very slow run off. I just blow back up the tube to clear the obstruction, stirr and let settle, then recirculate and continue from there.



Yes tried that one, I blew back and it still didnt come "unstuck" B%*%#rd of a thing it was. Yes I am still trying to get on with my life and get over it. :angry: 

BYB


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## Batz (9/4/07)

TidalPete said:


> I am very interested in this mika. If you batch sparge & run off in 5 minutes (sounds fast to me??), what kind of efficiency do you get?
> 
> :beer:




I batch sparge and run off in way less than 5 mins Pete

Batz


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## Murray (9/4/07)

I used to get them from time to time but have never had one since I started using rice hulls last year.


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## TidalPete (9/4/07)

Batz said:


> I batch sparge and run off in way less than 5 mins Pete
> 
> Batz



Really Batz? I usually take around 45 minutes (probably adding to my brew day as you know?)
Just fined-tuned my second attempt at fly sparging & got 84% :beerbang: & my fly sparge took 40 minutes so I have saved time here.  

:beer:


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## Ross (9/4/07)

BYB, On the rare occaision i get a stuck sparge when "batch sparging', I just dig a hole with the handle of the spoon straight through the mash to the false bottom. quick & easy * the amount of crud that seeps through is minimal.

cheers ross


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (9/4/07)

There’s a couple of easy modifications you may like to make that’ll help. From the outlet of your mash tun, you can add a goose-neck that comes up level with the plate, where your extract can then drain into a grant before running to your boiler. This creates a vacuum break, and because it’s level with the plate, the pressure differential when running off will be across the grain bed and not across the plate. The grain bed will effectively float above the plate. Similarly, you can make a U-bend that comes up to plate height and from the top of the bend, run an open, clear sight tube to the top of the mash tun. When running forward, not only will you get a visual indication of the pressure across the grain bed, it’ll preferentially pull air before it sucks the bed onto the plate. The U-bend and sight tube need to be ‘up stream’ from the flow controller or pump.


edit for typo


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## braufrau (9/4/07)

John Palmer reckons a stuck sparge is no big deal, just add a bit of water (depending on
how much has run off I guess) stir and recirculate.

He also reckons a litre/min is the right flow rate.

In my extensive experience of all of one mash  I fixed my stuck sparge with stirring 
and then ran the extract off at ~1l / min (into a measuring jug with one eye on the clock)
and that worked beautifully. I'm a numbers type of gal.

-braufrau


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## Hogan (9/4/07)

braufrau said:


> John Palmer reckons a stuck sparge is no big deal, just add a bit of water (depending on
> how much has run off I guess) stir and recirculate.
> 
> *He also reckons a litre/min is the right flow rate.*
> ...




I think Palmer is referring to 'fly sparging' when he talks of lautering at 1qt / minute. The extract is below in italics. 

Starting a sparge when the wort level is 1" above the grain relates to fly sparging. I double batch sparge and fully open the drain tap to get it in the kettle ASAP. Never (never say never) had a stuck sparge and I get constant efficiencies of 82%.

_9. Once the wort has cleared, drain the wort carefully into your boiling pot. Fill the pot slowly at first and allow the level to cover the outlet tube. Be sure to have a long enough tube so that the wort enters below the surface and does not splash. The splashing of hot wort before the boil can cause long term oxidation damage to the flavor of the beer.

10. Watch the outflow of wort, you do not want to lauter too fast, as this could compact the grainbed and you would get a stuck sparge. A rate of *1 quart/minute* is the most common. *Allow the wort level in the Tun to drop until it is about an inch above the level of the grain.* Now start adding the sparge water, either from the hot water tun or by pouring in a couple quarts at a time, onto the coffee can lid, maintaining at least an inch of free water above the grainbed. _



Cheers, Hoges.


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## hupnupnee (9/4/07)

I seem to get a stuck sparge every other brew. I reckon you can't beat a good blow, clears it every time for me.

Floculator

Tim


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## pint of lager (9/4/07)

Stuck sparges are the pits.

I used to have them all the time with a zappap and a fine crush. Regularly using a big dose of rice gulls fixed that problem. 

Some extra ideas to help you out.

Get that bed flowing by using a large serrated knife. Make two-three cuts across the mash, from side to side and all the way to the bottom. Do the same in the opposite direction, so the top looks like a noughts and crosses grid. Making just one hole through the centre will probably lower your efficiency and not be as effective as a grid.

As the bed drains and more hot water is added, your wort will flow easier as the concentration of sugars drops. Make sure your sparge water is about 75 deg, cold water will mean cold wort which is more viscous and won't flow readily.

Try to keep the bed floating, that is, don't run off quickly which will compact the bed, and keep the flow rate up so there is a centimetre or so of sparge water over the top of the bed.

Since the setup here was changed to a false bottom and a proper mill which is a barley crusher, all the sparges have flowed without a hitch. Rice gulls have gone on the vegie patch. Sometimes though, it will not flow at the very start, and a quick blast of air up the outflow tube works wonders.


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## mika (9/4/07)

Tidalpete, my efficiency is luck if it hits 65% at the moment. Not sure what to do to fix it as yet.
I don't think the drain off rate can affect efficiency, if you're batch sparging in one go (as I am) and everything's been given a good stir and you've recirced there shouldn't be any more sugar to come out of the grist, or your water won't hold anymore.

Slightly OT, but is there some ideal temp for the grain bed when sparging ? I'm heating the water to about 82deg and seeing ~75degs in the mash tun though sometimes higher, sometimes lower.

Some interesting solutions to a stuck sparge, might run off quicker next time, less work for the NASA


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## Corny (9/4/07)

Used to use a long knife and slice through the grain bed to make slits in the muck that forms on the top and the run off would start again. Find the longer I used to recirc for, the more stuck sparges I had, put it down to more fine material forming the layer of muck over the grain bed. Mostly only recirc the floury first 500ml or so now and don't have the problem.


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## Fingerlickin_B (9/4/07)

Ross said:


> I just dig a hole with the handle of the spoon straight through the mash to the false bottom. quick & easy * the amount of crud that seeps through is minimal.



I *almost* always get a stuck sparge, but just do exactly what Ross has detailed above  

First full batch AG I did there was one, got stressed, freaked out...now it's just normal procedure and nothing to worry about at all B) 

PZ.


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## domonsura (9/4/07)

Interesting that so many have regular problems with stuck sparges, I didn't realise that it was quite that widespread a problem!
I've only really had a couple, and one was due to one of my 'jury rigged' pickup tubes with a piece of PVC that got hot, collapsed, and then came off alltogether, filling the back of my ball valve with grain. I'd call that more of a f****d sparge, more than a stuck one. Had to empty the whole mashtun, fix and start again.
I use a complete false bottom from perf stainless sheet now, (400mm diameter) and have never had another one, even when I've overdone it & ground my grist almost into flour and was sure it was going to get stuck. 
But I really thought that stuck sparges were really uncommon, now I think I must just have been really lucky. I 'fly recirculate sparge' (recirculate the entire sparge water volume through the grist for a period of time) and tend to try to run it as fast as I can through the grist, but still run it all through there for almost equivalent minutes to end litres in fermenter (ie: 40-50 minutes for a 50 litre batch) but the way I run my brewery isn't really the norm, so I spose can't _really_ be used as a comparison in that respect.


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## Pumpy (9/4/07)

BYB said:


> Round 15ltr daddy cool with round 10" false bottom. From what I saw it seemed to have compacted on the bottom. Grain consisted of 4.5kg of marris Otter, 420g crystal malt, 100g dark crystal,160g torrified wheat. I had all the grain pre-cracked from my local HBS. I actually had two seperate ones made up. One I made about 6 weeks ago with no problems.
> 
> BYB



BYB I had nothing but stuck sparges witha a 19 litre cylindrical Rubbermaid and changed to a 38 litre cylindrical keep Cold .

I think Cylindrical Coolers have an optimum grain weight and slow with more grain 

The rectangular coolers seem to empty faster they absolutely gush out 

Make sure you dont use plastic tube from the false bottom to the Tun tap with the heat and weight it will compress the plastic tube ,

Metal is best I copied this way from Warren 


Pumpy


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## Batz (9/4/07)

I had stuck sparges with my braid manifold when doing doubles,doubled the braid and no problems.


Batz.....stuck sparges are the biggest pain around,air compressor used to fix it but :blink: 

Batz


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## TidalPete (9/4/07)

mika_lika said:


> Tidalpete, my efficiency is luck if it hits 65% at the moment.
> Slightly OT, but is there some ideal temp for the grain bed when sparging ? I'm heating the water to about 82deg and seeing ~75degs in the mash tun though sometimes higher, sometimes lower.



OT again probably mika but TTBOMK as long as the grain bed is at mashout temps (76-78 deg c) whilst sparging all should be good. What's your grind? I have my mill set to 40 thou & although I have only done one wheatie have only got one stuck sparge & that was from draining too fast (Not the wheatie  ). Do you adjust the pH of your mash & sparge water?

:beer:


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/4/07)

Ross said:


> BYB, On the rare occaision i get a stuck sparge when "batch sparging', I just dig a hole with the handle of the spoon straight through the mash to the false bottom. quick & easy * the amount of crud that seeps through is minimal.
> 
> cheers ross



Mine must of been one out of the bag. I "dug" around trying to get some flow but the thing still would not budge. I have had my sedation pills now. So my agro is all better now.  

BYB


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## pint of lager (9/4/07)

Brewing is a process of tuning. If something is out of tune you end up with a stuck sparge, or maybe a low efficiency, hazes, tannens, infections or other problems.

Since moving to a barley crusher mill and a false bottom mash tun that drains from the base there have been zero stuck sparges in over 60 brews.


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## tangent (9/4/07)

i know your pain BYB
i found i had a small leak near one of the fittings that stopped everything a few times.
that's what prompted the "show me your bottom" thread
i found that a large rubber washer was squeezing out of shape and letting some air in, which completely f^<ked everything up.
now i just check everything out and give her a tickle with the shifter before i dough in.


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## NRB (9/4/07)

I have been known to cut the surface of the mash with a knife similar to how Pint of Lager has stated, but I've never gone to the depth of the tun.


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## Screwtop (9/4/07)

Corny said:


> Used to use a long knife and slice through the grain bed to make slits in the muck that forms on the top and the run off would start again. Find the longer I used to recirc for, the more stuck sparges I had, put it down to more fine material forming the layer of muck over the grain bed. Mostly only recirc the floury first 500ml or so now and don't have the problem.






NRB said:


> I have been known to cut the surface of the mash with a knife similar to how Pint of Lager has stated, but I've never gone to the depth of the tun.




Use the same method as NRB and Corny here. Use a long bladed knife to break up the surface of the grain bed, doesn't seem to disturb the filtering properties, the wort starts to run again, better than stirring and recirculating again. As Tidal Pete suggested maintaining sparge temp helps, need sparge water at 95C with my gear.


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## Cortez The Killer (10/4/07)

I had my first stuck sparge on the weekend

I was in a rush and didn't let the grain bed settle

A good stir and a little waiting and I was off again

Didn't seem to effect efficiency @ 79%

Cheers


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## Back Yard Brewer (10/4/07)

Screwtop said:


> As Tidal Pete suggested maintaining sparge temp helps, need sparge water at 95C with my gear.



On that I thought the sparge water would not have been that hot. I may have sparged at 70-75 tops. With what I have read, and maybe I have misinterpreted, if the water is to hot would you extract any nasties? <_< 

BYB


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## Ross (10/4/07)

BYB said:


> On that I thought the sparge water would not have been that hot. I may have sparged at 70-75 tops. With what I have read, and maybe I have misinterpreted, if the water is to hot would you extract any nasties? <_<
> 
> BYB



If you are doing 2 equal runoffs (as I do), adding near boiling water will typically bring your mash up to approx 78c which is ideal. Over heating is more of a problem with fly sparging, where you are continually washing the grains with fresh water & tannins start to get extracted after the sugars been washed out - This does not happen with batch sparging. It's still better to keep the mashout below 80c, but don't stress if it goes a little above. The hotter mashout will aid the runoff & be less likely to stick.

cheers...

Ross


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## Stuster (10/4/07)

To extract tannins you need two things: the grain over 76C AND the pH over 6. This scenario is much more likely when fly sparging than with batch sparging (though it's possible with either). I'm not a fly sparger, but I recall 78C being the most common recommendation for sparge water and sparging should stop when the gravity falls below 1008-1010. Batch sparging you can use water that's 85-90C (or more) without much danger of the grain bed rising above 76C.

I have found that keeping the sparge fairly hot is very helpful in avoiding stuck sparges, especially when using adjuncts like rye.


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## Screwtop (10/4/07)

Bit of a misconception Sparging at 76 - 78C. The grainbed needs to be maintained at that temp. It's not the temp of the sparge water. Don't take too much notice of what the non fly spargers have to say regarding fly sparging and tanin extraction.


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## Stuster (10/4/07)

Screwtop said:


> Bit of a misconception Sparging at 76 - 78C. The grainbed needs to be maintained at that temp. It's not the temp of the sparge water. Don't take too much notice of what the non fly spargers have to say regarding fly sparging and tanin extraction.



Of course, it shouldn't happen with a well set-up system, but it's much easier for a beginner to go wrong in this area when fly sparging than with batch.  (not really trying to stir up a fly v. batch argument



)

And this page might be useful.


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## The King of Spain (10/4/07)

> If you are doing 2 equal runoffs (as I do), adding near boiling water will typically bring your mash up to approx 78c which is ideal.



Ross what water vols into the tun do you use for a standard brew (say 5kg) for Mash and Sparge (assume batch) ? 

Also do you think a clear wort is important? Using Koperfloc I just seem to end up with less break in the kettle so wonder if thats a zero sum game.

Cheers


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## Ross (10/4/07)

deaves said:


> Ross what water vols into the tun do you use for a standard brew (say 5kg) for Mash and Sparge (assume batch) ?
> 
> Also do you think a clear wort is important? Using Koperfloc I just seem to end up with less break in the kettle so wonder if thats a zero sum game.
> 
> Cheers



I mash at 2.8L /1kg. first mash out i add approx 10L of 98c water. Second mash out whateveres left at approx 85c (i leave to cool while doing first mash out). gives me 2 runoffs of approx 78c, but I don't worry whether its a bit higher or lower. I'm not sure of the real benefitts of a clear wort, having read a paper that said you get better break formation with a cloudy wort & that it's beneficial. I still try for a clear wort, but quite often it isn't & I've noticed no drop off in quality of the final beer. So i don't stress either way  

cheers ross


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## delboy (11/4/07)

randle got any pics of what you are tryig to explain?

boy oh boy i wonder if they had all these kinda problems back in the 8TH century when the monks made beer?

delboy


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/4/07)

I batch sparge and use near boiling water. I let it sit for approx 10mins then drain. It usually takes the third batch before the grain bed rises above 80*c


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## facter (12/5/07)

can anyone tell me what ratio of rice hulls i should use if I am going to attempt and almost all wheat malt partial mash so that i can avoid a stuck sparge? Im looking at bout 2kg of malt .. and i have 1kg of rice hulls


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## DJR (12/5/07)

try it with 1/3 of a kilo of "rice gulls" to start with, you can always stir more in.

I have this persistent stuck sparge problem - every time i've got it i had to take the mash out of the tun  But the other day i discovered that if i tighten the nut on my outlet when it happens, it flows like crazy again, so now i'm a happy camper.


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## facter (13/5/07)

DJR said:


> try it with 1/3 of a kilo of "rice gulls" to start with, you can always stir more in.
> 
> I have this persistent stuck sparge problem - every time i've got it i had to take the mash out of the tun  But the other day i discovered that if i tighten the nut on my outlet when it happens, it flows like crazy again, so now i'm a happy camper.




okay cool .. my poor little mashtun, i hope it fits all of this in it...

do you know, should I put the rice hulls in during the mash or stir them in just before lautering it? If just before, wont that possibly increase the chances of oxidation?


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## DJR (13/5/07)

facter said:


> okay cool .. my poor little mashtun, i hope it fits all of this in it...
> 
> do you know, should I put the rice hulls in during the mash or stir them in just before lautering it? If just before, wont that possibly increase the chances of oxidation?



No, stirring them in won't cause any or very little oxidation - the HSA debate continues anyway, i'm on the "HSA is not a problem at the homebrew level" camp


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