# Dangerous "Kegland" sticker on Co2 bottle



## Outback (16/6/18)

Country brewer in Maitland refused to refill my Co2 bottle this morning citing safety reasons. 
Having a current test stamp, as well as being stamped Keg king was not enough to allay their fears. I can only conclude it was the sicker which was dangerous. 

While i respect their right to fill or not for no reason, i also reserve my right to never darken their door again. I will in future save my custom for a business which has not been scare mongered into what is ultimately a poor business decision.


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## Weizguy (16/6/18)

Consumer affairs might be interested in this exclusive practice.
I don't often go to the Maitland store, as the Brewman is a bit closer to me and usually has sufficient CO2 to fill my bottle.
Maybe you should contact the Brewman before you next venture out this way.
Good to know that some stores are easily influenced.
Time for a beer, I feel!


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## MHB (16/6/18)

Outback said:


> Country brewer in Maitland refused to refill my Co2 bottle this morning citing safety reasons.
> Having a current test stamp, as well as being stamped Keg king was not enough to allay their fears. I can only conclude it was the sicker which was dangerous.
> 
> While i respect their right to fill or not for no reason, i also reserve my right to never darken their door again. I will in future save my custom for a business which has not been scare mongered into what is ultimately a poor business decision.


Did they give a reason for declining to fill the bottle?
I would assume you asked, I certainly would have.
Having filled thousands of CO2 bottles and yes having declined a few to, there would have to be a dam good reason, it usually involved expired tests, the bottle being half full of beer, serious rust or other damage. A business makes a living by supplying a need so they would likely have had a dam good reason for saying no.
Mark


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## Outback (16/6/18)

My son took the bottle for me as he visits that way occasionally. He was told they would not fill it for safety reasons and would go no further other than direct him to a fire extinguisher place which was closed by then.

The bottle is essentially new and this was the first refill for it. It certainly looks new with no cosmetic let alone actual damage or issues


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## MHB (16/6/18)

Give them a call and ask, if they have a good reason it would be nice to know.
Mark


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## Brewman_ (16/6/18)

I am happy to fill CO2 bottles as long as you own it and it is a CO2 bottle with an appropriate test stamp and is within its test date cycle. Of course if the bottle shows signs of damage / rust, or some other issue which I am sure would be obvious, I would not fill until it was tested and certified OK, then I'd fill it.

If it is out of date I will offer to have it reinspected, cost $50, takes a week, and filled after that.

Cheers Steve


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## DU99 (16/6/18)

have you sent a pm to kegland about this concern


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## Madscientist86 (16/6/18)

Could you just remove the kegland sticker? Would not be able to tell if it is a kegland or kegking cyclinder.


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## Outback (17/6/18)

The argument against filling it was a bit of a moving one. Safety, Not filling kegland cylinders just because, Kegland cylinders previously leaking after being refilled, direction given from further up the food chain, and safety again. The condescending remarks made between staff as my son left were out of line regardless.

I can't be bothered following it up with them. Obviously they have run a business without my custom in the past, so I'm sure they will be OK without me in the future. The next time a trip that way is planned I will make contact with Brewman, I'm sure he will exchange some Co2, grain, hops, yeast and whatever for some coin.

I shouldn't have to remove a sticker. I have scant details of what transpired when the split occurred and that's fine. It simply is none of my business. If someone wants to side with one party or another due to some loyalty, I respect that, but just come out and say it.


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## wynnum1 (17/6/18)

If the cylinder leaked after they filled that would not be there fault plus the sticker could be there for warranty to show who sold it. and when.


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## Quokka42 (23/6/18)

If there was a Kegland sticker on a Keg King bottle they may have simply been concerned about legal implications - then again they may have a deal with KK and don't want to jeopardise it...

Unless you actually have experience in running such a business I would not be too critical. I understand you are upset, but your whole life is not on the line. You probably won't be happy if they go out of business anyway - some things you can buy online, but your beer will probably suffer if you have to source everything that way.


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## Moad (24/6/18)

Most likely business/commercial reasons. 

Just go to Brewman or if that’s too far there is also firebox at Beresfield. 

For those in Newy there’s Frank in steel river who fills a 6kg for $30.

Strongly suggest Brewman as option 1, You will without a doubt pick up some good brewing advice and chat while there


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## Uyllii (25/6/18)

Moad said:


> Most likely business/commercial reasons.
> 
> Just go to Brewman or if that’s too far there is also firebox at Beresfield.
> 
> ...



Does Brewman have a shopfront, or do you need to organise a time with him? (I've always got stuff delivered from him)


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## Coalminer (25/6/18)

No shopfront. Contact details on his website
http://www.brewman.com.au/web/index.asp


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## Thomas Wood (25/6/18)

Moad said:


> For those in Newy there’s Frank in steel river who fills a 6kg for $30.


KegLand website lists Brew By U in Cardiff as a distributor. Unsure of the prices for a refill though.


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## Beir Hearder (26/6/18)

Thomas Wood said:


> KegLand website lists Brew By U in Cardiff as a distributor. Unsure of the prices for a refill though.


Would not risk a dodgy situation. Best to go with the safety requirements.


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## Beir Hearder (26/6/18)

Weizguy said:


> Consumer affairs might be interested in this exclusive practice.
> I don't often go to the Maitland store, as the Brewman is a bit closer to me and usually has sufficient CO2 to fill my bottle.
> Maybe you should contact the Brewman before you next venture out this way.
> Good to know that some stores are easily influenced.
> Time for a beer, I feel!


Good luck with consumer affairs


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## Moad (30/6/18)

Thomas Wood said:


> KegLand website lists Brew By U in Cardiff as a distributor. Unsure of the prices for a refill though.



I believe $10/kg at Cardiff for any bottle


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## dibbz (30/6/18)

My main concern with buying a kegland bottle would be no retailer wanting to touch it because kegland are undercutting retailers while also trying to get them to stock their gear.


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## trevgale (30/6/18)

Thomas Wood said:


> KegLand website lists Brew By U in Cardiff as a distributor. Unsure of the prices for a refill though.


Where is Frank? I work in Steel River, so that sounds pretty handy.


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## DU99 (30/6/18)

ring the people first before taking it for a refill and see if they will fill it...............


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## Beir Hearder (1/7/18)

dibbz said:


> My main concern with buying a kegland bottle would be no retailer wanting to touch it because kegland are undercutting retailers while also trying to get them to stock their gear.



Makes one wonder.


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## trevgale (1/7/18)

Moad said:


> Most likely business/commercial reasons.
> 
> Just go to Brewman or if that’s too far there is also firebox at Beresfield.
> 
> ...



Hi Moad, where is Frank in steel river? I work near there so it could be pretty handy.


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## KegLand-com-au (2/7/18)

wynnum1 said:


> If the cylinder leaked after they filled that would not be there fault plus the sticker could be there for warranty to show who sold it. and when.



If we supplied a leaky cylinder it would be replaced free of charge under warranty. As far as we are aware though we have not had this issue so i think this is more speculation rather than fact.


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## KegLand-com-au (2/7/18)

Beir Hearder said:


> Makes one wonder.



The reality is we have more refill stations signing up every week. It would be pointless to boycott a KegLand cylinder as it's made to the Australian standard has work cover approvals and is identical to other cylinders on the market made to the same standard.

The cylinders that KegLand sell are all less than 6 months old so they are in sigificantly better condition than many of the other cylinders on the market.

All the cylinders are covered under our own warranty.

The smart retailers have already worked out that it makes sense to fill anything that meets the Australian standard for the reason that you can make good money on the gas, and secondly it brings people to your retail store where they will probably buy other stuff. So we are 100% confident that we will continue to see more filling locations become available for this same reason.


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## brewgasm (3/7/18)

The cylinder is a one off, the real money is in the consumables! (just look at the home printer industry) I own two kol cylinders and as far as the industry goes they are the expensive in albeit a high quality in. I would like to think that swap and go is the future and much like the LPG system works the "brand" of the bottle will become irrelevant and focus with shift to the functionality or the purpose of giving us pressurised CO² to carbonate and dispense our beer


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## Freaksta (3/7/18)

Yea I'm sure once the dust settles people will refill. I've just ordered an extra 2.6kg bottle.


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## gezzanet (4/7/18)

trevgale said:


> Hi Moad, where is Frank in steel river? I work near there so it could be pretty handy.



12/11 McIntosh drive
Mayfield West NSW 2304
Australia 
Went there end of last year. Nice bloke. 
Cheers gez


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## hooper80 (4/7/18)

I have a Co2 swap and go business on the Sunshine Coast and I am happy to fill a kegland bottle.


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## Kenf (29/9/18)

I took a brand new Kegland cylinder to be refilled ( I bought it from another supplier and did not know it would be a Kegland one).
Anyway today as I said the store said this valve was faulty ( see attached photo). Now what annoys me is a) I deliberately went to another supplier to avoid problems, b) the “local” refiller in Coffs Harbour has closed its doors, c) the only place for 100 kilometres that can fill cylinders, says these cylinders are faulty & d) I paid more for the same cylinder to avoid problems & now have problems anyway!
I am getting so tired of all of this - I guess I will scrap this one and use Sodastream stream bottles instead


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## Kenf (29/9/18)

9FA3FC6B-7860-428A-BFCF-2DDE6596294B



__ Kenf
__ 29/9/18



Valve


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## MHB (30/9/18)

That is called a Residual Pressure Valve, it is designed to keep a little CO2 in the bottle; this prevents any moisture or Oxygen getting into the bottle and starting rust.
Aluminium bottles don't require a RPV to be on a 10 year test cycle, Steel bottles do! Without a RVP steel bottles need testing every 5 years, with a working RVP its 10 years.
A Steel bottle without a RVP, or one that isn't functional (most of them I have seen from KK and KL, I once handed a work cover inspector a bag of faulty PRV's that weighed a couple of kg) can still be filled, provided it has all the relevant compliances and it is less than 5 years from its last certification.

Personally I spent the extra and brought MKOL Aluminium bottles, my 4.5kg bottle is about due for its 10 year test, it has preformed flawlessly for the whole 10 years, I don't begrudge the extra cost one iota. Sometimes you really do get what you payed for.
Mark


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## Kenf (30/9/18)

MHB said:


> That is called a Residual Pressure Valve, it is designed to keep a little CO2 in the bottle; this prevents any moisture or Oxygen getting into the bottle and starting rust.
> Aluminium bottles don't require a RPV to be on a 10 year test cycle, Steel bottles do! Without a RVP steel bottles need testing every 5 years, with a working RVP its 10 years.
> A Steel bottle without a RVP, or one that isn't functional (most of them I have seen from KK and KL, I once handed a work cover inspector a bag of faulty PRV's that weighed a couple of kg) can still be filled, provided it has all the relevant compliances and it is less than 5 years from its last certification.
> 
> ...


Thx Mark, yeah he did explain what it is and what it is for. I have sine told the supplier and Kegland by email that once it is empty I will be decommissioning it. And last night it emptied itself (my fault a faulty o ring), so I won’t worry about it anymore!
Cheers


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## Kenf (2/10/18)

Kee from Kegland has offered to supply a new PRV.
Thx Kee
As a Safety and Risk professional however I am still concerned the defective parts are allowed to be fitted to potentially dangerous vessels.
It goes to show our regulatory framework is less than adequate


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## pcmfisher (3/10/18)

and when your bottle won't let any gas out so you decide to screw out your faulty rpv and it blows the end of your finger off or takes out your eye. Nice!


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## FarsideOfCrazy (3/10/18)

I've read that these valves can shoot across a room when being unscrewed, even with the gas off. The pressure is still behind the valve. Not sure if unscrewing it slowly will let the pressure out before it reaches the end of the thread. I'd be checking first. Other wise just take it back to the retailer.


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## Kenf (3/10/18)

Yep that’s what I was told by the person who noticed the faulty PRV, even though mine had a faulty O ring, the ones he was very concerned about were the ones that did that!
It seems to me in the race to make things cheaper, manufacturers and suppliers are happy to accept failures.
Airbags, safety valves, clothes even trains and planes that are built in third word countries with “laxer” laws, seem to have accepted a higher level of failure.


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## sp0rk (3/10/18)

Kenf said:


> I took a brand new Kegland cylinder to be refilled ( I bought it from another supplier and did not know it would be a Kegland one).
> Anyway today as I said the store said this valve was faulty ( see attached photo). Now what annoys me is a) I deliberately went to another supplier to avoid problems, b) the “local” refiller in Coffs Harbour has closed its doors, c) the only place for 100 kilometres that can fill cylinders, says these cylinders are faulty & d) I paid more for the same cylinder to avoid problems & now have problems anyway!
> I am getting so tired of all of this - I guess I will scrap this one and use Sodastream stream bottles instead


I'd guess I know who wouldn't fill it, won't name names.
Did Coffs Home Brew in town close?
They're about the only other place in Coffs other than the fire extinguisher mobs that filled CO2 bottles


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## Moad (3/10/18)

gezzanet said:


> 12/11 McIntosh drive
> Mayfield West NSW 2304
> Australia
> Went there end of last year. Nice bloke.
> Cheers gez



Thanks Gez,

Sorry I don’t frequent the forum as much as I used to and didn’t get back to respond.

Cheers


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## Kenf (4/10/18)

sp0rk said:


> I'd guess I know who wouldn't fill it, won't name names.
> Did Coffs Home Brew in town close?
> They're about the only other place in Coffs other than the fire extinguisher mobs that filled CO2 bottles


I didn’t say anything about whether it was filled or not, just talked about the faulty valve. They did talk about what happens when you think the cylinder is empty and it isn’t! Quite rightly in their position if it happened more than once I would not fill it!
Yes apparently Coffs Home Brew moved, a mate of mine told me and he has tried to call them several times no answer.
I guess if I want the damn thing filled again & don’t want to annoy the brilliant folks at Toormina I can get it filled at Port MAC as I do go down there occasionally.


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## sp0rk (4/10/18)

Kenf said:


> I didn’t say anything about whether it was filled or not, just talked about the faulty valve. They did talk about what happens when you think the cylinder is empty and it isn’t! Quite rightly in their position if it happened more than once I would not fill it!
> Yes apparently Coffs Home Brew moved, a mate of mine told me and he has tried to call them several times no answer.
> I guess if I want the damn thing filled again & don’t want to annoy the brilliant folks at Toormina I can get it filled at Port MAC as I do go down there occasionally.


Geoff at Coffs Home Brew is a really nice bloke, I used to work with him
Unfortunately he never really wanted to do anything other than kits & spirits and really didn't want to store hops and yeast in a fridge when I was visiting his shop


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## Armstrong (4/10/18)

sp0rk said:


> I'd guess I know who wouldn't fill it, won't name names.
> Did Coffs Home Brew in town close?
> They're about the only other place in Coffs other than the fire extinguisher mobs that filled CO2 bottles


Country Brewer - Toormina fills gas bottles


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## sp0rk (4/10/18)

Armstrong said:


> Country Brewer - Toormina fills gas bottles


*whoosh*


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## Armstrong (4/10/18)

sp0rk said:


> *whoosh*


What does that mean?


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## Kenf (4/10/18)

Armstrong said:


> What does that mean?


Yes I know that one (as they were the guys who picked up the faulty valve) now all those that were involved have spoken to each other, so all is good. big thing is locally (Coffs Harbour area) the gas bottle drama is soughted!
I do want to say thank you to Kee for promising to replace the valve and sought out future filling, Matt (Country Brewer) for showing me the defect in the first place, but for also being supportive and soughting out mine and others future gas needs.
I was actually starting to loose faith in the whole home brew supply system, but people like Matt have restored my faith!
And also thanks to Dave from Ikegger, the new Professional regulator turned up just in time for me to enjoy one of my all grain 150 lashes clones!
After all the drama the bloody bottle leaked due to one of my faulty connections


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## sp0rk (4/10/18)

Matt is a very good bloke, very knowledgeable and always goes the extra mile to help out his customers
I always make sure to pop in and say hi whenever we're back in Coffs


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## SBOB (3/5/19)

was in the Maitland country brewer today for the first time in a while, and they still have sizeable bold signs indicating 'No Kegland'.. no fills etc

considering they had 6kg Keg King CO2 bottles there for over $200 (i think.. thats some outdated pricing) when the market for keg-king/keg-land bottles is down in the $90 range now means its probably not the place for co2 :/


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## Thomas Wood (3/5/19)

SBOB said:


> was in the Maitland country brewer


They're grubs. I asked for an explanation why they wouldn't fill KL bottles and all the guy would say was "it's complicated" over and over again and I was SOOL.


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## fdsaasdf (3/5/19)

Country Brewers across Brisbane won't fill Kegland bottles either. I don't have one but they mentioned it when I asked about fills.

On a more positive note, they will swap and go any other 2.6kg bottle, as long as it is within date, I got what looks like a brand new MKOL bottle for ~$25 for the old Brewcraft bottle I took in. Much better policy than the business they replaced.


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## trevgale (3/5/19)

Thomas Wood said:


> They're grubs. I asked for an explanation why they wouldn't fill KL bottles and all the guy would say was "it's complicated" over and over again and I was SOOL.



I started going to Frank in Mayfield West after buying a Keg Land cylinder when someone put his details up in another post. He charges $30 for a 6kg cylinder and will fill it in about 5 minutes while you wait.


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## JDW81 (3/5/19)

Thomas Wood said:


> They're grubs. I asked for an explanation why they wouldn't fill KL bottles and all the guy would say was "it's complicated" over and over again and I was SOOL.



It's not cause country brewer are keg king distributors and they've got some sort of exclusive supply contract is it?


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## feral1 (3/5/19)

SBOB said:


> was in the Maitland country brewer today for the first time in a while, and they still have sizeable bold signs indicating 'No Kegland'.. no fills etc
> 
> considering they had 6kg Keg King CO2 bottles there for over $200 (i think.. thats some outdated pricing) when the market for keg-king/keg-land bottles is down in the $90 range now means its probably not the place for co2 :/


mate seriously? You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. There's serious doubts over the quality of the Kegland bottles. $90 for a cylinder that is supposed to hold 850+ PSI, you're taking your life into your own hands if you buy a cylinder made of cheese.


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## feral1 (3/5/19)

I guess it comes down to whether you are willing to trust the product. Why are they so much cheaper than some of the alternatives? You have to ask yourself that question. Just because something looks the same, doesn't mean it is the same. Aldi pride themselves on spewing out cheap products that mimic real quality but last less than 5 minutes. In this case, you are risking your life by buying something made in china for a fraction of the cost with dubious certifications. Give me a Catalina cylinder any day, they can cope with 3000PSI way more than enough for any CO2 fill. More expensive yes but way less risky. 

I'm guessing that Kegland is mostly online purchase? If so, and you are too cheap to support your local brew shop, feel free to buy your refill online as well.


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## tanked84 (4/5/19)

Most people purchase stuff online these days for convenience, get up with the times!
Some of these local homebrew shops you speak of resell kl or kk products...yes even the faulty Chinese made stuff for 5x the price.


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## Kenf (4/5/19)

The major reason people don’t like filling the KL cylinders are faulty BPV’s. Now I have been told it’s not a problem unique to KL. Apparently all the cheap Chinese cylinders from both major wholesalers have the problem. Basically the hold far too much CO2 back, which results in an apparently empty cylinder have too much gas left. Or they leak all the gas out or they jam! But the KL cylinders seem to have a higher fail rate - in my case two out of two!
If you choose not to run with it in, no dramas except that the cylinder will slowly rust on the inside! Like others have said a potential bomb! Now I don’t plan for my cylinder to last 10 years or in fact 5 and I have learnt my lesson - cheap Chinese stuff is just that! Cheap Chinese crap!
As for businesses not dealing with KL or in fact KK - that’s their choice! Afterall if a supplier deliberately sets out to destroy a competitor by ridiculous pricing and considers the LHBS as collateral damage, why should those shops support the supplier?


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## Coalminer (4/5/19)

Bought all of my 4 bottles from my LHBS.
He refills them personally and does the necessary maintenance when reqd
Always good to go local


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## Nullnvoid (4/5/19)

feral1 said:


> Aldi pride themselves on spewing out cheap products that mimic real quality but last less than 5 minutes.



The only Aldi stuff that I have that doesn't last longer than 5 minutes is the food....as I eat it. Everything else is still working 5-10 years later? Also my $10 kmart kettle which is used several times a day has lasted 10+ years and so on and so forth. Guess it depends on how you look after things.


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## burrster (4/5/19)

feral1 said:


> mate seriously? You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. There's serious doubts over the quality of the Kegland bottles. $90 for a cylinder that is supposed to hold 850+ PSI, you're taking your life into your own hands if you buy a cylinder made of cheese.







feral1 said:


> I guess it comes down to whether you are willing to trust the product. Why are they so much cheaper than some of the alternatives? You have to ask yourself that question. Just because something looks the same, doesn't mean it is the same. Aldi pride themselves on spewing out cheap products that mimic real quality but last less than 5 minutes. In this case, you are risking your life by buying something made in china for a fraction of the cost with dubious certifications. Give me a Catalina cylinder any day, they can cope with 3000PSI way more than enough for any CO2 fill. More expensive yes but way less risky.
> 
> I'm guessing that Kegland is mostly online purchase? If so, and you are too cheap to support your local brew shop, feel free to buy your refill online as well.


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## DU99 (4/5/19)

if these things are so evil why haven't people complained to ACCC.....or is it just a bunch LHBS stores don't want to be helpful


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## Kenf (5/5/19)

DU99 said:


> if these things are so evil why haven't people complained to ACCC.....or is it just a bunch LHBS stores don't want to be helpful


Have you ever seen one shoot across the room or heard it? I have heard it, the point is these little things have to be removed to fill and until you start undoing them there is zero indication of a problem! The cylinders are certified by Workcover Victoria which just proves certification by the regulator is bs! BPV’s are only required for steel cylinders, so the more expensive aluminium ones are fine. Is it a campaign by the LHBS’s, I don’t know and I do know some who fill them despite the safety issue. Point is it shouldn’t happen and any business has the right to refuse to provide a service due to safety concerns - its covered under WHS.
Cheers


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## DrJez (5/5/19)

Having just bought 2 new co2 bottles I'm now fearing trying to refill them. Where is the 5 or 10 - year stamp date refillers look for? Do I need to bring my receipts with me, or?

By looks of things, my Keg King cylinders have the brass insert that prevents full co2 exhaustion too, how do people remove these to refill?


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## Kenf (6/5/19)

DrJez said:


> Having just bought 2 new co2 bottles I'm now fearing trying to refill them. Where is the 5 or 10 - year stamp date refillers look for? Do I need to bring my receipts with me, or?
> 
> By looks of things, my Keg King cylinders have the brass insert that prevents full co2 exhaustion too, how do people remove these to refill?


A Hex key and yes they have had the same problems


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## DU99 (6/5/19)

thought exchange was the idea with those tanks.


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## tanked84 (6/5/19)

No problem refilling in Melbourne


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## KegLand-com-au (6/5/19)

All KegLand cylinders are backed by us and refilled by a large number of refill locations that you can find here:

https://www.kegland.com.au/distributor/
This list is also continuing to grow as more refill stations get put onto this list. I should also say that you can probably find other aquarium stores and refill stations that are not on this list but also are able to fill our cylinders. If you happen to find any just let us know and we will add them to the list to help other customers too.

If anyone ever has an issue with one of our cylinders just let us know. Definitely we had the first batch of cylinders that had a higher than normal number of PRV valves that did not let gas out from them and as far as I know every single customer that contacted us were shipped replacement or they were taken back to us for a replacement. We have had less than 100 of these out of several thousand sold. In the more recent 2000 units sold we have absolutely zero issues whatsoever so it would be important to consider the numbers that we are talking about.

Yes we sell stuff at the lowest possible price that's correct. But to necessarily say that the cylinders are of low quality because of low price doesn't make any sense. Prior to KegLand existing the same cylinders were sold in Australia for $200 each. The same steel, specification, design, out of the same factory. The quality has not changed at all. They simply have a lower price tag and customers are getting some awesome bargains especially at the moment.

We do have an instruction sheet showing how to remove the RPV piece here:
https://www.kegland.com.au/replacement-residual-pressure-rpv-for-co2-cylinder-valve.html


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## DrJez (6/5/19)

Thanks Kegland. I did feel that it was mostly fearmongering and something just didn't sit quite right. You guys have always been incredibly good to me so far in all/any dealings. Even one order I did not long ago with a bad regulator you took back right away just asking for a quick vid of the fault and even paid return postage on which I thought was just great service and the right thing to do which many companies don't

Also missed a tap handle in an order and placed a separate order for it just minutes after, didn't want to pay $8 postage for the $1.50 handle so just left a note asking to ship it with my other order. Low and behold the poor guy wasn't too pleased with me and explained it's quite a task for him to do but he actually did it for me after I was pretty sure you wouldn't have

Kudos to you

Ps, I think the co2 cylinders look to be perfectly acceptable and rather good quality from what I've seen. Im really happy with mine


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