# Mice in grain



## Newts (27/3/14)

Hey all, 

Recently went and brought a bunch of grain so I could have a crack at all grain. Checked my bag of grain this morning and the bloody mice got into it. Went and bought a few fermenter containers from bunnings to store grain in. Just wanted to know if this grain affect my beer or will it be okay to use?

Cheers

Newts


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (27/3/14)

Mice tend to piss on everything as they go. 

Your grain will be unusable. You dont want to take chances. Sorry but its now chook food


----------



## ekul (27/3/14)

HOw badly did they get into it? If they've chewed the corner and just eaten the grain as its come out its probably fine. If they've actually been running around in it its probably wrecked.


----------



## TheWiggman (27/3/14)

I'm with Stu. If they've actually been IN the bag then it's as good as gone. 
Very relevant post. Recently found mice nibbled out the corner of a pre-milled recipe, maybe lost 50g. Caught the buggers with a 'humane' mouse trap, then disregarded the advice on the product label and promptly fed each mouse to the dog.


----------



## manticle (27/3/14)

My two cats are humane mouse traps.

Have had grain bag corners nibbled with no issue in resulting beers brewed. If mice have pissed in it, you should be able to smell it. Will remind you of Victoria bitter.

Why not do a minimash or something? If it's rubbish, chuck the rest.

And get those bloody mice into something that involves separating their heads from their bodies.


----------



## Rodolphe01 (27/3/14)

I'm sure there have never been rats or mice in the farms, silos or malting facilities... 

If it doesn't stink like mouse piss I'd use it.


----------



## Batz (27/3/14)

Rudi 101 said:


> I'm sure there have never been rats or mice in the farms, silos or malting facilities...
> 
> If it doesn't stink like mouse piss I'd use it.


I bet a mouse or two have scampered over your grain from time to time. City people seem to find it hard to believe mice tend to hang out in grain fields, grain silos and spreading grain all around for malting, well that sounds a bit like a mousie meal.

Still I would rather they did not get into my grain bags. :blink:


----------



## Newts (27/3/14)

Cheers for the replies. Was expecting a "use the search button" reply but I couldn't find anything. 

They only chewed the corner of the bag and looks like they've eaten it as it's come out. I poured a bit out the little hole they made and all the grain in the bag seems to be intact. No strange smell or anything so guess ill use it and see how it goes. 

I got the grain from the city 600km away so it's not like I can go get more anyway. 

I was thinking that as well. Surely the grain facilities would have mice come through. 

Have to figure out how to mouse proof all my grain and extract now. Hopefully these plastic containers and a higher spot do the trick.


----------



## Northside Novice (28/3/14)

Haha funny stuff , mice ass will probably help with your mash ph levels ! 
Unless you like the little blokes keep your grain in a mouse proof container like a plastic bucket with a lid . Easy peasy . 
You mouse infected grain will be a ok to brew with so don't fret mate 
I might join the queue at d stu's place for all his mouse tainted grains that he won't be using


----------



## pk.sax (28/3/14)

Unless you have vicious rats! Mice won't be able to chew through plastic. I got a handy storage tub after a mouse attacked my sack of grain last time. They've never found it again. Fucker ate the malt and left the husks on the floor.


----------



## Fat Bastard (28/3/14)

I've had bits of furry, dessicated bone turn up in sacks of grain before, so I've not only had mouse wee in my beer, I've had significant parts of actual mice/ mouses/meece in the brew. Not that I've told my vegan crusty punk mates about it.
I used to have a job that took me to many rural grain silos, and judging by the local population of very fat and happy felines at each one, I find it hard to believe that any grain product is entirely free of mouse urine.

You'll be fine unless you're passing the meece through the mill.


----------



## Black Devil Dog (28/3/14)

Mice are eating your grain?

They won't if they eat your rat sack first.


----------



## manticle (28/3/14)

Then they go away, die horribly and stink the place out two weeks later while you try and find where they are. Once you find them, you have to scrape them off the floor.

Traps are way better.


----------



## Black Devil Dog (28/3/14)

I've had rats and I tried the less toxic solution, maybe they're smarter than mice, because I never caught one. With rat sack I caught every single one of them.


----------



## manticle (28/3/14)

I'm the opposite although it was a mouse plague that we faced.

They took the ratsak but crawled away and died under things. Only way I found them was via smell. Set traps (I mean loads - up to 15 at once) as we lived in a large warehouse. I think 12-13 was our record in one night. Quick, clean kill, mice stayed exactly where I could find them the next day.


----------



## Black Devil Dog (28/3/14)

I don't have a big problem with either rats or mice, it's managable and my preference (my wife must take full credit for this), is to trap them alive and relocate them, but they're too cunning. They avoided every opportunity we gave them to get out alive. Then we tried neck breakers, with all sorts of treats to entice them, again no luck.

Rat sack, 100% strike rate...... I felt sorry for the bastards but they're too damned smart for their own good.


----------



## manticle (28/3/14)

I'm a live/let live kind of guy -relocate spiders, etc (except whitetails & mosquitos) but this particular mouse takeover gave me the worst gastro I have ever encountered and we were overrun. Could hear the bastards pissing in the pantry and taunting me at 2am while I popped another panadeine forte. I felt like my insides had been taken out, washed, oven baked and dried on the line, then put back in in the wrong orientation.

No cats at that time. Took me weeks to get over the symptoms but on the upside, I did start making sculptures from mouse bones.


----------



## Northside Novice (28/3/14)

Monsanto Bayer DuPont , what rats ? There is a once in a millennium plague my whiskered scoundrels . 
Fill their bellies and poison their kings until the war is won .


----------



## Beer Ninja (28/3/14)

Did dead rats in the bottom of Guiness vats really improve the flavour?

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/forums/viewthread/1494/

Or is it just an urban myth ^_^


----------



## Northside Novice (28/3/14)

Hmm a brewery in Dublin and rats ? Seems legit


----------



## Beer Ninja (28/3/14)

northside novice said:


> Hmm a brewery in Dublin and rats ? Seems legit


As a lad, the old guys always used to tell us about the rat in the bottom of the barrel. Never used to put me of my beer because I didn't believe them.

Maybe I was wrong. So very wrong....


----------



## Spiesy (28/3/14)

I have a loaded rat trap in my brewery, which contains many, many kilos of grain - prob half a tonne (the brewery, not the rat trap). 

It's never gone off. And I've never noticed any droppings or anything. 

I just store all grain in air tight drums and clean up after each measure of grain.


----------



## Greg.L (28/3/14)

It's best to store grain in metal containers, if rats get at it they will chew right through plastic - even if it's airtight and there is no theoretical way they could smell it.

There is the old story about putting a lump of rotten meat in with fermenting cider to give some nitrogen - a dead mouse would do nicely.

For grain there is a specification for how much dead insect matter is allowable, it is well above zero.


----------



## Truman42 (28/3/14)

If you leave a bowl of water somewhere near the ratsak the mice will usually head for that as the poison makes them very thirsty.

On the weekend I noticed some nibbled grain husks under my mill which sits on a bench in the garage. Set a trap with peanut butter and the next morning a fat mouse was hanging out of the trap.


----------



## JDW81 (28/3/14)

Greg.L said:


> There is the old story about putting a lump of rotten meat in with fermenting cider to give some nitrogen - a dead mouse would do nicely.


Mouse urine is high in nitrogen…..


----------



## Yob (28/3/14)

Jeebus Spiesy, that's a lot of containers... How big is ya brewery! 

I've noticed much more rat activity since I evicted the possums from my shed roof, grain is in very thick plastic drums but I do need to begin an eradication program.


----------



## jaypes (28/3/14)

You could possibly give your grain a good wash before milling, I have heard brewers doing this before a mash (cant remember what the hell for!)

As for the eradication I am all for the traps that deliver a high voltage fatal zap (was an electrician in a previous life)


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (28/3/14)

northside novice said:


> You mouse infected grain will be a ok to brew with so don't fret mate


Well, I can see what you have been taking......would you still use it if some one came in and shit & pissed all over your grain

If they have just a nibble at the corner then it will prob be ok

http://www.cdc.gov/rodents/diseases/direct.html


----------



## DU99 (28/3/14)




----------



## Fents (28/3/14)




----------



## TimT (28/3/14)

Yep. If it doesn't ruin your grain, consider it yeast nutrient.

We've had mouse problems in the past - indeed, the cats have discovered a little beasty just five minutes ago - but funnily enough they never seem interested in my grain. Probably all that mess in the kitchen and the compost bin is adequate distraction....


----------



## Spiesy (28/3/14)

Yob said:


> Jeebus Spiesy, that's a lot of containers... How big is ya brewery!


Not that big, tbh. Just storing a lot of backup grain for FP.


----------



## pk.sax (28/3/14)

jaypes said:


> You could possibly give your grain a good wash before milling, I have heard brewers doing this before a mash (cant remember what the hell for!)
> 
> As for the eradication I am all for the traps that deliver a high voltage fatal zap (was an electrician in a previous life)


We had a big silo in he house in india to store wheat for milling for our own flour we got from mate out in the village. Always added poison tablets to the silo, the ones that release fumes to keep both mice and bugs out. It was a monthly ritual to draw grain and wash and sun dry enough to take to the mill for a nice coarse unfiltered crush.


----------



## Funk then Funk1 (28/3/14)

Just remember, if you spot something that looks like black grains in your mash and you didn't put in any dark specs in, I'd pick them out, they probably aren't grain :blink:


----------



## QldKev (28/3/14)

Funk then Funk1 said:


> Just remember, if you spot something that looks like black grains in your mash and you didn't put in any dark specs in, I'd pick them out, they probably aren't grain :blink:


Just tell them it's wholemeal


----------



## syl (28/3/14)

I have 2 cats and half a tonne of grain, no issues here! My cats like to sit on the piled up bags and look out the window


----------



## QldKev (28/3/14)

syl said:


> I have 2 cats and half a tonne of grain, no issues here! My cats like to sit on the piled up bags and hide from the mice


Fixed


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (28/3/14)

Still....sorry...but if Smouse laid a tune on my fresh malt....id be kicken it.


----------



## argon (28/3/14)

manticle said:


> My two cats are humane mouse traps.


OT

Wait... Wait... Hold up. Ever seen a cat catch and kill a mouse? Those fuckers would make Pol Pot turn in his grave. Evil little shits they are. 

My cats have tossed mice in the air for hours skinned and devoured those little pricks. Humane they are not. Effective yes... Humane certainly not.

Carry on...


----------



## Florian (28/3/14)

Argon, it's called training. Once they catch one they use it again and again for training purposes so they can catch the next one even faster.
Used to love watching them. Every now and again they would loose a mouse during training.

Also, finding a dead rat in front of your bed in the morning for 'thanksgiving' is a nice gesture, but not one I really appreciate.


----------



## Yob (28/3/14)

Our cat "ghengis" doesn't give them much quarter, I often feel quite sorry for them... Hell of a way to leave the earth,even if they are a pest..


----------



## coopsomulous (28/3/14)

Our cat must be a weak thing....only likes birds. We had a mouse caught at the bottom of our stairwell, stuck between a door and the stairs. Sent the cat down, he looks at it and turns around and runs back up the stairs. Wasnt interested at all. Sent the dog down, she smelled the mouse, looked up at us as if to say "its a cat job". Ended up having to deal with it myself.


----------



## HBHB (28/3/14)

Gave up on cats after losing 2 to the local snake population. If you can't beat them, join them.

You could try one of these. Cheap to maintain, non poisonous and very very very effective at keeping mice under control and chook egg numbers in check.

I might add, this one's only about 1.8 m long, his bigger mate's more like 5 m long and currently resides amongst a tangle of (this year anyway) disused christmas light frames.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/album/1164-general/?view_style=large


----------



## MartinOC (28/3/14)

"Neca ecos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet."

or...

"Kill 'em ALL & let God sort 'em out". :super:


----------



## Batz (28/3/14)

Most of the older brewers who have visited the Batcave have seen Monty, he lives in my shed as does my grain. He does a great job unless he eats a possum, then he sleeps for a couple of weeks.

Mouse traps are a fun thing with me, I do get the odd mouse or two in my bar room. I love to set traps and try my best to catch the little f&ckers, set them as light as possible without sore fingers. Bait is a whole new game and depends on the mouse.


----------



## daveHQ (28/3/14)

I had mouse/rat problems for years (10+) my kids have had pet rats for around 6 months, since then, not a single 1

Apparently they are very territorial, they smell a rat and find somewhere else to go


----------



## Batz (28/3/14)

Many years ago when my boys still lived at home we had a game, a mouse trap each (same type). You can pick your bait, you set the trap, you pick where to put it.

Who can catch the most mice? Dead mice where then fed to the ducks, worked well.


----------



## pcmfisher (29/3/14)

manticle said:


> I'm a live/let live kind of guy -relocate spiders, etc (except whitetails & mosquitos) but this particular mouse takeover gave me the worst gastro I have ever encountered and we were overrun. Could hear the bastards pissing in the pantry and taunting me at 2am while I popped another panadeine forte. I felt like my insides had been taken out, washed, oven baked and dried on the line, then put back in in the wrong orientation.
> 
> No cats at that time. Took me weeks to get over the symptoms but on the upside, *I did start making sculptures from mouse bones.*


and drawing pictures of them, no doubt.


----------



## manticle (29/3/14)

Indeed.


----------



## JDW81 (29/3/14)

Yob said:


> Our cat "ghengis" doesn't give them much quarter, I often feel quite sorry for them... Hell of a way to leave the earth,even if they are a pest..


Circle of life Yob, circle of life.


----------



## MaltyHops (29/3/14)

TommyC said:


> Our cat must be a weak thing....only likes birds. We had a mouse caught at the bottom of our stairwell, stuck between a door and the stairs. Sent the cat down, he looks at it and turns around and runs back up the stairs. Wasnt interested at all. Sent the dog down, she smelled the mouse, looked up at us as if to say "its a cat job". Ended up having to deal with it myself.


Should have called in the Arbitration Commission.


----------



## manticle (29/3/14)

Yob said:


> Our cat "ghengis" doesn't give them much quarter, I often feel quite sorry for them..


Calling it Ghengis kind of set the tone from the beginning. Should have called it Mercy or Charity or somesuch.


----------



## The Lords of Diacetyl (10/5/14)

Newts said:


> Cheers for the replies. Was expecting a "use the search button" reply but I couldn't find anything.
> 
> They only chewed the corner of the bag and looks like they've eaten it as it's come out. I poured a bit out the little hole they made and all the grain in the bag seems to be intact. No strange smell or anything so guess ill use it and see how it goes.
> 
> ...


I use 50 litre new plastic rubbish bins with "clip-on" lids - $10 and so much easier than sacks when weighing out grain, with the use of a rigid plastic container as a scoop.
There's no way a mouse could chew into them - and if you have house-rats, you've got bigger problems than nibbled grain sacks.
(yes, I had the same issue with mice, mainly because I was keeping the cat shut out of the brew storeroom).


----------



## real_beer (10/5/14)

Why use cats any more? These are free and there's billions of them 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DnQv__Gd7Q


----------



## scrimple101 (10/5/14)

Thought the act of fermentation rendered it safe to drink. Isn't that why they always drank beer in the middle ages?


----------



## QldKev (10/5/14)

real_beer said:


> Why use cats any more? These are free and there's billions of them
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DnQv__Gd7Q


And I've been chasing these buggers out of the brew area all these years. I'm retiring my Dettol sprayer.


----------



## Yob (10/5/14)

manticle said:


> Calling it Ghengis kind of set the tone from the beginning. Should have called it Mercy or Charity or somesuch.


When we got him, it totally fit his character, is was that or Vlad... And that was toward humans, he should (in that light) be called fluffy hugsy bunkins..


----------



## real_beer (10/5/14)

This might be a better more eco-friendly solution than a cane toad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4enilF4pEko
If you need them for rats maybe a bit of exposure to nuclear atomic waste radiation might mutate them into a larger size species to do the job.


----------



## flano (19/5/14)

NOOSKI mouse trap.
from bunnings.

The kiwi's make great beer and great mouse traps.

I wiped out an entire family of mice in about 3 days.

I got my first one after about 3 minutes of setting the trap.


----------



## Phoney (19/5/14)

I keep a little bowl full of Bromokil under my shed, where nothing but rats and mice could get to it. Something is eating it as i have to refill it once every few months, but I sure haven't seen any rodents since I started doing it. When they eat that stuff they get thirsty, then go in search of water, once they do they promptly bleed to death from the guts, but ive only ever once seen a dead rat next to a pot-plant dish with a bit of pooled water. Im guessing the rest die offsite.


----------



## zappa (19/5/14)

Bromokil must work better than ratsak. I have those enclosed rat bait boxes in my sheds full of ratsack and the buggers set up camp in them. Rat home complete with food supply.


----------



## Markbeer (7/6/14)

ratsack the original formula is warfarin. many rats and mice have evolved and it will not kill them. they seem to be able to live off it.

i had green shit for weeks appearing. went through box after box.

switched to talon, mouse was gone in 2 days. the one feed one kill products work so quickly. i keep the baits all the time. best way of keeping your grain safe.


----------



## barabool (24/7/14)

If you want to get heaps of mice in one trap and don't want your dog eating ratsack petrified mice spread through out your yard, I suggest the old bucket trap.
Half fill a bucket with water - attach a sock to half a 750ml beer bottle, grease the end with butter and whack some cheese in the end. place the bottle so the sock is on the ground and the cheese is over the middle of the bucket. The mice climb up, go for the cheese and fall in and drown.
In a mouse plague back in the Mallee we caught so many they were getting out after the bucket filled.

Here is another version, but you get the idea.


----------

