# 50 Ltr Keg Boiler



## Bigfella (2/4/04)

I just got hold of a 50 Ltr keg and need to convert it to a boiler. Can you guys give me any sugestions on how to do this. Do I just cut the whole top of and leave the handles or try and cut a hole in the top so I can put a lid on it. Also what is the best way to cut it.

What is the best way to fit a tap.

Thanks Guys.

This is the start of my all Grain setup.


----------



## Justin (2/4/04)

Nice score bigfella, 

Angle grinder is the best option. Get a very thin cutting disc, suited for cutting stainless (I will post the part number tomorrow), anyway it's a very thin disc and cuts like a hot knife through butter on the keg. You'll be able to make a lovely clean cut with it. Draw the size hole that you want on the keg then folllow it around. I used one of those $20 angle grinders from Kmart and had the hole out in 10mins, clean, accurate and finished. Leave the handles (very handy) and cut the hole to suit a lid of you have one (aluminium wok lids work great, but wish I had a glass lid).

For the tap, I recommend drilling with a drill press and then welding a 1/2" coupling (stainless). If you have a Nubco or similar place near by this should cost about $5. If you don't have this option then drill a smaller hole and file out to the right size. You can make a bulk head fitting to suit (check the web for this) but you will need a length of 1/2" threaded shank. To this attach some washers (metal and rubber/silicone) and nuts. Then whack the ball valve on and your done.

It's very easy. Handy if you know someone with a TIG welder but if you were to pay someone to do it, it would cost bugger all. Great kettle in the end.

Cheers, JD

P.S. There is a squillion pages on how to do this on the net. Search around.


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

Bigfella, those 50kegs are handy and perfect for a boiler.
As justin stated use a metal cutting disc, and it doesnt take long at all, if cut the top out of 2 50l kegs so far.
As for the tap, i used ball valves however didnt do any welding.
For my tap i cut a hole, threaded pipe through the hole, fixed with flared nuts and used washers, then srewed on the ball valve.
Tested and no leaks.
As for heating mine is electric and just used jug elements.
(see pics)


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

The tap...


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

another pic inside


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

source of heating...


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

source of heating...


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

And you know what....

After making this boiler, and testing it, i pick up a 30L Urn for $50.
Havent even had a chance to use it for my first all-grain.
I'll probably use the urn, due to it having a sight glass on it, however if it ever dies on me i have the big 50Litre beast to take its place  

Cheers


----------



## wedge (2/4/04)

i payed a professional $50 to do it. Im not very handy!


----------



## pioneergangsta (2/4/04)

Here the urn i picked up for $50...


----------



## Batz (2/4/04)

I cut the top out same as the other guys , and my tap?
See pics


----------



## Batz (2/4/04)

inside


----------



## Bigfella (2/4/04)

Love the urn.

What is the braded filter made of Bats and were did you get it.


----------



## Batz (2/4/04)

That's just a piece of braided tubing you can get a any hardware , I cut off the fittings at both ends and pulled the rubber tube out the guts.

Fitted with a couple of s/steel hose clamps

About $10.00 worth


----------



## sosman (3/4/04)

> As for heating mine is electric and just used jug elements.


Now in keeping with the current trend, I think that requires a hungarian honey to go with it


----------



## sosman (3/4/04)

BTW I find this alternative style of tap handy. I can just push a hose over the barb, or remove the barb to expose a threaded fitting. They are only $10.


----------



## Jazman (3/4/04)

welll pioneer i would with your boiler extent the tap out as to not get much heat on the tap with the plastic parts i will post my kettle soon


----------



## dicko (3/4/04)

Yep Pioneer,
I got to agree with Jazman, I had mine on a short pipe up close to the keg and the flame from the burner affected the tap, but your is electric so should be OK
Cheers


----------



## Bigfella (4/4/04)

Where did you get the tap Sosman?


----------



## sosman (4/4/04)

Industrial Fittings Sales
Unit 1/17 Tower Crt Noble Park 3174
(03) 9706 3133


----------



## sosman (4/4/04)

As an aside (aka gratuitous plug) most of the equipment I mention has further details on the brewiki pages, especially brewiki: equipment for hardware and cleaning and sanitation for chemicals.

Any suppliers I find useful generally get their details on the brewiki somewhere.

The rest of the stuff I buy from the LHBS.


----------



## RobW (5/4/04)

Batz

What kind of flow rate do you get with the braided tubing? I set up a new mash/lauter tun yesterday using a 300 mm length of it in a bazooka style. Testing with water I got a flow rate of 500 ml/minute. Is that about what to expect? I've crimped the mesh back on to the original end fitting which has a fairly narrow bore & I wondered if that was slowing the flow too much.


----------



## pioneergangsta (5/4/04)

BBB & Jazman

The pics i showed you were for my HLT, my other boiler is heated by a 3-ring burner. Hey thanks for the tip...didnt think about the plastic on the handle...might have to make a few adjustments.

Cheers


----------



## joecast (5/4/04)

mmm, sosman does have a nice tap. i still need a fitting for the end of mine.
joe


----------



## JSB (5/4/04)

Gents,

I just got a price for a 4-ring burner (Kookaburra), High pressure regulator & 9kg gas bottle (filled) for $145 is this around the mark ?????

Cheers
JSB


----------



## Batz (5/4/04)

KenEasy,
I just did a check for you , with plain water nothing else
It would be 240 lt per hour


----------



## RobW (5/4/04)

Thanks Batz, that's 8 times the flow I'm getting.  I might need to take the narrow end piece off then or get a longer piece of mesh (or both).


----------



## Batz (5/4/04)

4 Lt per minute

easier to fathom


----------



## wedge (5/4/04)

SOSMAN thats the tap i have. Dont forget to remove the aerator.

This baby has worked for me and i have alot of heat on her. Just make sure, (i dont know if anyione has said this), to not have your tap above any of the holes in the base of your keg.


----------



## pioneergangsta (6/4/04)

> I just got a price for a 4-ring burner (Kookaburra), High pressure regulator & 9kg gas bottle (filled) for $145 is this around the mark ?????



JSB if you allow say:
$40 for gas cyclinder
$25 for reg
$65 for burner
Leaves about $15 for gas...
so its reasonable...i guessed the above amounts, shop around and see what other people can do for you.

cheers


----------



## JSB (6/4/04)

PG,

Cheers, I saw the same burner for $80 and then down the road for $97........

Funny think retail hey ????

Cheers
JSB


----------



## Bigfella (6/4/04)

So all has gone real well the keg conversion. Now I'm thinking of doing a nother one for a HLT. can anyone tel me of a good source for a elctric heating element and thermometer in Melbourne or at least on the web.

Thanks


----------



## wedge (6/4/04)

i got a four burner for $80 and then payed $30ish for an adjustable regulator. 

This baby :wub: chews upto 2kg of a gas an hour, but it heats my wort in no time.

Well worth the investment.

p.s. it also came with a cast iron frame


----------



## Batz (6/4/04)

I got mine from here

http://www.helios.com.au/ 

and here

http://www.hotco.com.au/Product_Index.htm


----------



## Bigfella (6/4/04)

What did you get Bats and how much was it.


----------



## Jazman (6/4/04)

got my 3 ring form aussie dispols 40 bucks


----------



## Bigfella (6/4/04)

would you guys use a burner or go to the touble of intstalling an elctric heating element.


----------



## wedge (6/4/04)

go the burner. I use an immersion heater though for my HLT.

I just fill the HLT the night before. Set the timer and when i wake up the liquid is nice and hot. Plus electric is cheaper than gas.

Trust me Bigfella when it comes to AG you want to reduce the amount of time your brewing. A four burner gas element does this. 

Keep on asking questions though!


----------



## Fish (28/6/04)

Back in November 03 'Justin' posted the following on the 50 Ltr Keg Boiler thread:

"Angle grinder is the best option. Get a very thin cutting disc, suited for cutting stainless (I will post the part number tomorrow), anyway it's a very thin disc and cuts like a hot knife through butter on the keg."

Justin or someone else in the know - please advise the type of disc discussed. I like the hot knife option as opposed to changing discs every 2 minutes / making a few trips to Bunnings.

In addition if someone is feeling bored could they please outline a non-weld tap set-up that works (i.e. piece | piece | piece | keg wall | piece | piece | etc..). A photo would be brilliant if someone had one. As you can see I am no plumber, however if someone spells it out I should be ok.

Cheers
Fish


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/6/04)

Fish,

The type of disc I used to cut mine was a non-metal cutoff wheel. They were about 2 bucks each from All-Tools. I only needed two of them. You could probably even get away with one. By all accounts the non-metal ones avoid rust in the cutting region or some crap like that. IMO any type of metal cutoff wheel would work just as well and probably cost less than 2 dollars.

The trick is not to force the grinder into the stainless but rather let the wheel do the cutting. You'll use less discs that way and it will not take much longer.

As for weldless taps. I just used a pipe nipple, 2 rubber washers. The ones that are used on fermenter taps and two flat, brass hex nuts. It never leaks.

Caveat; My boiler is electric so it avoids gas flame heating the tap. I can't guarantee that my weldless tap would stand up to an LPG flame. YMMV.

Warren -


----------



## Justin (28/6/04)

Fish, I'll get the part number tomorrow and post it. I was using the disc last night actually. As you probably read, it's a really thin disc (2mm maybe less) but I'm not sure if it's a non-metal one as described above or not, but they do work how I described. Fantastic, I cut the hole so clean and perfect I amazed myself. Bunnings didn't have them though, they only had the thicker everyday cutting wheels. I went to Nubco (not sure if that's a national compary or not, but if you went to one of your more dedicated tool/pipe/stainless places you'd find one.

Worst case scenario I could post one to you but being in Melbourne you'd track one down. Search the yellow pages under Tools, or maybe a Stainless place.

Good luck. Cheers, Justin


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/6/04)

Here's some pics I just took.

Hope this helps -
Warren -


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/6/04)

And another


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/6/04)

And another pic from the inside of the boiler, it's just the same as the outside... rubber washer and a flat brass hex nut.

Warren -


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/6/04)

Last and by no means least... :blink: 

Warren -


----------



## pint of lager (28/6/04)

To protect the valve and plastic from the heat from a burner, use some sort of metal shroud to shield that part of the boiler from flame. 

My boiler does have the tap welded into the keg, but with a shroud, it copes ok with the heat.


----------



## RobW (28/6/04)

Warren, how much power do those elements pull? Can you run them off the same domestic circuit or do you need to split them or go to 15 amp? Also, did you just drill out for them with a metal drill bit?


----------



## dicko (28/6/04)

Hi Fish,
The type of cut off wheel you need is used by panel beaters and automotive body builders and is available from crash supply places. It is usually only available to suit 4" and 5" grinders.
If you are heating your kettle or HLT with gas I suggest you have a long bulkhead fitting through the keg to get the ball valve away from the heat. Check the photo gallery on this site "Dicko's Driver River Brewery"
Cheers


----------



## sosman (28/6/04)

Some detailed pics in among my files at brewiki:

brewpot

exploded tap fittings

The second one is a mashtun fitting but it shows the typical bits an pieces you might use.

Flexovit make a very thin cutoff wheel - around 1 mm thick. I didn't know about those when I cut the top of my keg out and just used a regular one. One disc easily did the whole lot.


----------



## Hoops (28/6/04)

Fish said:


> In addition if someone is feeling bored could they please outline a non-weld tap set-up that works (i.e. piece | piece | piece | keg wall | piece | piece | etc..). A photo would be brilliant if someone had one. As you can see I am no plumber, however if someone spells it out I should be ok.
> 
> Cheers
> Fish


Fish

was "feeling bored" so here's some pics of a bulkhead fitting


----------



## Hoops (28/6/04)

and an exploded view (includes a compression fitting)


----------



## Jazman (28/6/04)

well like sos i used a 115 mm cutting disk by felxovit and only used half on and i took it easy and used a brand new on then used a sanding disk on my 4 inch grinder for a neater finish so it only cost me 2 bucks


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/6/04)

Ken,


Elements are 2 x 2400 watt. Used to be able to run them both at once off a particular power point.

Since the house has been rewired I've been unable to do so. I just use one now. Gets the runoff from mash temps (75c) to a boil in about 45 mins with 1 element.  

So If I'm patient I suppose it's good enough. Sure wish I could use the two though. It used to be a pretty impressive rolling boil with two elements. Now I think my hop utilisation suffers as a consequence of just having the one element and a so-so boil. This improves if I close the lid a little though.

Everytime I try and run the two of them in unison now the circuits trip off and I have to go to the fusebox and switch them on again.

I just had two holes drilled by a metal fabricator. Think from memory he just used a 30mm bi-metal holesaw. I get no leaks even though the keg curvature tends to make a less than perfect seal for the plastic lock nuts on the element. I just use a bit of teflon tape on the element threads.


Warren -


----------



## GMK (28/6/04)

Warren 

You can run both elements as long as they are on different power circuits.

get a long extension cord and find a different circuit that you can plug into that does not blow the circuit breaker - unless it is the ELCB - then you may need to upgrade that.


----------



## Justin (29/6/04)

Yep, I used one of those 4" Flexovit cut off wheels. Easy cutting as your only cutting/removing the minimum amount of steel to get the job done rather than three times the amount of steel with a regular thicker disc.

Hey Warren, I think you missed your pen markings for the hole for your tap on the side of the keg mate  . I have the same element set up in my HLT and run them as GMK stated, just using an extension lead to a different part of the house (different circuit). Works fine, but yeah if I load them on the same circuit it would blow for sure.

Cheers, Justin


----------



## warrenlw63 (29/6/04)

Thanks for the tip Ken,

Only problem is that I boil from the garage and the other nearest power point is a fair way away. BTW what's an ELCB??

Justin. It actually wasn't me who drilled the holes. I took the keg to a metal fabricactor. He drilled the 2 element holes and the 1 tap hole for me for ten bucks. Obviously he did it after work and after happy hour.  

Won't happen when I make a separate HLT I've got my own bi-metal holesaw and arbor now.

Warren -


----------



## GMK (29/6/04)

ELCB = Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker


----------



## Batz (29/6/04)

In my HLT I use one 2400w element , this is all that is needed , I also have a stirrer I made from an old windscreen wiper motor , this keeps the water at a constant temperture as you tend to get hot spots near the element.
I don't want any hot or cold spots as I also use the HLT for a HERMS system.

I don't like the idea of using elements in a kettle , I have seen these and the boil is consitrated around the element too much , much better to go gas in my opinion

Only my opinion guys

Batz


----------



## Batz (29/6/04)

Just as a matter of interest here

My 2400w element draws 8.3 amps , don't run two from a 10 amp socket


----------



## jayse (29/6/04)

Another matter of interest,
GMK refered to the earth leakage detecting ciruit as that ELCB.
which is quite correct but in australia it is more commonly known as RCD.
Residual current device.
Which does the same thing detects currant going to earth via a faulty ground or to anywhere else.
anyway ELCB is a american term i believe and RCB being the common term in australia.
sorry i know tomatoe-tomata all the same.
one important note is a RCD or a ELCB is a totally different thing to a standard over current circuit breaker.
The rcd works by measuring the balance of current going in and the current going out of a circuit and if they aren't cancelling each other out then the circuit will trip.
so you still need a normal circuit breaker as you can see with a RCD it is possible for yourself to become part of the circuit ie if the currant passes through the circuit than through you and then goes back to he circuit.
So a RCD is not a raplacment for a over current ciruit breaker but a complement to it which serves another purpose.
The rcd will trip when the difference in balance is only milliamperes where as the house hold over current breaker does not trip as quiclky.
Anyway its designed to trip before your heart goes into ventricular fibrillation.

Sorry just rambling on.

Jayse


----------



## RobW (29/6/04)

Batz said:


> I don't like the idea of using elements in a kettle , I have seen these and the boil is concentrated around the element too much , much better to go gas in my opinion
> 
> Only my opinion guys
> 
> Batz


 I'm currently tossing up whether to go gas or electric. Anybody else have opinions on this one? (particularly interested in hearing from people using electric elements to boil)


----------



## warrenlw63 (29/6/04)

Batz,

You say that the boil concentrates around the element. Stirring more or less minimises this. I've used elements for a few years and they seem OK. Only complaint is that the boil isn't really strong enough with one element and always winds up too strong with two (boilovers).

Also I think I suffer from poor hop utilisation with elements, also easily compensated for. Pretty easy to get hot spots with gas as well.

Warren -


----------



## RobW (29/6/04)

warrenlw63 said:


> Only complaint is that the boil isn't really strong enough with one element and always winds up too strong with two (boilovers).


 Is there a compromise - say a 3500W element? Or would that draw too much load for a domestic circuit? Maybe 2 smaller ones?


----------



## Batz (29/6/04)

warrenlw63 said:


> Batz,
> 
> You say that the boil concentrates around the element. Stirring more or less minimises this. I've used elements for a few years and they seem OK. Only complaint is that the boil isn't really strong enough with one element and always winds up too strong with two (boilovers).
> 
> ...


 Point taken Warren , as I said my opinion only

You have been using them with success , no problems then

I do doubt that you would get hot spots using gas , at least not with my kettle , the rolling boil is way too strong

Batz


----------



## jayse (29/6/04)

Is there a compromise - say a 3500W element? Or would that draw too much load for a domestic circuit? Maybe 2 smaller ones? [/quote]
Yes ken a 3500w will draw as much as 14.5 amps.
So you will need to have a 15amp ciruit and 15amp wiring.

Jayse


----------



## Fish (29/6/04)

Thanks for the help guys. 

Great pics Hoops and Sosman (Sosman I should have tried the encyclopedia that is Brewiki first!). Justin - I should be right re. the cutting disc - might try one of those Flexovit ones. Do most hardware stores sell these?

Will report back with some photos at a later date.

Fish


----------



## GMK (29/6/04)

i have a 2 element electric copper washer.
i only use one element - 1.8kw.
Not enough.
When i wire up the second element and get a 15 amp circuit - i have purchased a 3.4 kw oven rheostat.
This is infinitely variable and can handle the wattage power ok.
i will be conecting this up in series to the second element so that i can adjust the second element only.

This will work well i hope.

Find one of these Ken and it should work for you.

I have chosen electricity because i have 3 kids and feel that the electric option is safer tahn naked gas turkey burning flames around.


----------



## jayse (29/6/04)

I do see a problem there GMK,
That being if the elements are in series than you can't control them both seperately, being that they are all one ciruit.
Ie active > goes to ones side of the element and comes out the other side then goes to the next ellement through that ellement then to neutral.
Has you can see you will have to have them each with seperate power not in series to control one but not the other.
Thats how I see it working anyway.

Jayse


----------



## GMK (29/6/04)

My elements will be run in parallel.
The rheostat will control only one element.

the first element will allways be on...

the second will be adjustable...


----------



## JasonY (29/6/04)

Ok some simple circuit analysis that may help (assuming i dont stuff it up  )

1) These electric elements are a simple resistive device which heat the water from the heat dissipated in its resistance (Power Dissipated = V^2/R).

2) If you connect two in series then you have effectively doubled your circuit resistance &reg; and therefore halved your power output per element. This means that you aren't getting more heat (power) in the setup.

3) Connect them in parallel and you now halve the effective circuit resistance. This will lead to you doubling your current and therefore you now get double your power. 

Soooo if you are going to do this you better put them in parallel or you will not be getting any extra grunt from it. Not sure if this is what you are planning GMK hard to tell from the description.

ok, I was bored, back in my box now :huh:


----------



## GMK (29/6/04)

Thats it Jason

use the rheostat to control the second - have them in parallel.

Ken...


----------



## PostModern (29/6/04)

LOL, GMK. They just _won't_ take "yes" for an answer.


----------



## dicko (30/6/04)

GMK said:


> i have a 2 element electric copper washer.
> i only use one element - 1.8kw.
> Not enough.
> When i wire up the second element and get a 15 amp circuit - i have purchased a 3.4 kw oven rheostat.
> ...





> safer tahn naked gas turkey burning flames around.



Your'e right GMK,
When it comes to childrens safety you definitely need to be VERY careful of those "Naked Gas Turkeys" particularly if they are burning flames!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: 

Cheers


----------



## dicko (30/6/04)

I hope the above post doesn't encourage any one to post a picture of a Naked Gas Turkey. :lol: :lol:  
Cheers


----------



## dicko (30/6/04)

Bugga it!!
Couldn't resist it.
At worst it will end up along side Big Brother. :lol: :lol: :lol: h34r:


----------



## dicko (30/6/04)

Bloody hell Ken,

Looks like that one just gave birth.   
:lol: :lol: :lol:   

Cheers


----------



## Batz (30/6/04)

You a sicko dicko :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## warrenlw63 (30/6/04)

Dicko,

Sad,  very sad  

    

Warren -


----------



## GMK (30/6/04)

Dicko...

It is hard to soar with Eagles when you are surrounded by Turkeys....
 
:lol:


----------



## SJW (30/6/04)

pioneergangsta said:


> Bigfella, those 50kegs are handy and perfect for a boiler.
> As justin stated use a metal cutting disc, and it doesnt take long at all, if cut the top out of 2 50l kegs so far.
> As for the tap, i used ball valves however didnt do any welding.
> For my tap i cut a hole, threaded pipe through the hole, fixed with flared nuts and used washers, then srewed on the ball valve.
> ...


How many Gal's are these kegs?
And where do u get em? I know at my local pubs they are all diff types floating around out the back waiting for collection, i wonder if they would miss one?


----------



## JasonY (30/6/04)

I'm impressed it only took 9mins to get a picture of a turkey on here :lol: You must be frequenting the wrong types of sites


----------



## warrenlw63 (30/6/04)

Dicko! Dicko!

*I want my body back* :lol: :lol:


----------



## Trough Lolly (30/6/04)

Nice pictures Warren - love the turkey - pretty pink dress and a nice rack! :lol: 

I used a Flexovit metal disk (only one was needed) on my keg shaped vessel a couple of weekends ago - I had a diamond tipped disk but decided not to use it unless I chewed through a shitload of metal disks. As was said in earlier posts, let the disk do the work - don't get medieval on the cover, just run the disk over it to make a deep score and then go back when it is a bit cooler to finish off the cut. I held the grinder upside down and let the top of it rest against the rim - keeping it vertical allowed a nice even cut all the way around.
I worked the lid off in less than 5 mins and there is still enough of the disk to make it useful to clean off small jobs etc (yeah, I know, tightarse!)

I have a Morse brand 7/8ths metal holesaw with built in arbor and a pilot drill bit - picked it up from local plumbing supplier for about $35 - will punch a hole in the keg this weekend in preparation for installing a weldless SS bulkhead fitting - getting closer to AG brew day now!
Cheers,
TL


----------



## Jazman (30/6/04)

tl drill slow and use a cutting oil like cdt or rocol u may wear out that bit as i have stuffed up a lot off drill bits drilling ss i would use a uni bit as it a versityle drill bit and drills graduallly


----------



## Trough Lolly (1/7/04)

Thanks Jazman,
Yeah, its all a bit of a learning curve for me - as a black hander I make a great concert pianist! I'm not afraid to admit that I have no idea how to use this stuff, but so far, none of my gear has killed, zapped or impaled me or my family!
What was that oil you referred to - is cooking oil or Singer sewing machine oil no good? My understanding is to use a low speed and high torque so the saw cuts the metal rather than scrapes it.
TL


----------



## SJW (5/7/04)

How do u guys get the wort from the boiler to fermenter ? do u pump? otherwise u would have to do the boil up high so it can drain into the fermenter.
I am thinking it might me heaps easier just to siphon the wort out of the top of the keg rather than go to the drama of puting a tap on. What do u think


----------



## GMK (5/7/04)

use a tap

have the boiler on a stand so that the fermenter is below...

let gravity do the job...


----------



## Justin (5/7/04)

Go the tap my friend. The last thing you want to be doing at the end of the brew day is buggering about trying to get a siphon going. I have a tap and love it, my mate doesn't and I just have to laugh at his attempts to transfer the wort post boil. So much messing around. 

So for a little more work now, you can have the joys of gravity from brew no.1.

Cheers, Justin.

N.B. He also siphons from his mash tun (a shitty old esky that he doesn't want to cut a hole in (???!!??), and I mean shitty :wacko: ). Two words on that: Bloody Nightmare. He's the stuck sparge mystro.


----------



## warrenlw63 (5/7/04)

Siphoning unfermented wort at it's most vulnerable is something I'd rather not deal with  I'll save it for my glass carboys. You can see where the bottom of the hose is going then. With a S/S boiler you're poking about into the unknown a bit methinks.

Taps are no big deal to fit to a boiler. Makes life far, far easier.

Warren -


----------

