# Spunding Valve



## rude

Just wondering who uses what type of valve for pressure fermenting

Have seen the KK ones but apparentley they are very touchy to control

Have looked for some in RS spares as below

SMC AP100 Rc 1/4 Female Pressure Relief Valve Female RC 40mm 1/4in, 0.05 → 1Mpa

This one was $85 bit dear but if it is good will part with the cash

They are listed under pneumatic or exhaust ppr valves

The range is in Mpa is that measurement 1Mpa, one million pascals ?

I have sent e-mail to CraftBrewer but no reply as their RegQDvar looks ok adjustable up to 100psi
& comes with the gauge & bits ready to go ,anyone have one of these & do they adjust well ?

Would like a valve that goes up to at least 30psi so kegs finish carbed

All advice appreciated Rude


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## takai

I have used one like this in other applications: http://www.amazon.com/Control-Devices-Pressure-Relief-Adjustable/dp/B007GDY3CU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458626761&sr=8-1&keywords=spunding+valve

But depending on the scale it could be difficult at lower pressures.


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## rude

How do you find this for adjustments hit & miss
Do you mean hard to adjust for say 15psi

What application do you use it for ?

Thanks for reply


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## Danscraftbeer

The KK one works fine actually. Its fine adjustment but does set right as long as the pressure is there. I replaced the 15psi guage with an 80 psi.


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## TheWiggman

rude said:


> Just wondering who uses what type of valve for pressure fermenting
> 
> Have seen the KK ones but apparentley they are very touchy to control
> 
> Have looked for some in RS spares as below
> 
> SMC AP100 Rc 1/4 Female Pressure Relief Valve Female RC 40mm 1/4in, 0.05 → 1Mpa
> 
> This one was $85 bit dear but if it is good will part with the cash
> 
> They are listed under pneumatic or exhaust ppr valves
> 
> The range is in Mpa is that measurement 1Mpa, one million pascals ?
> 
> I have sent e-mail to CraftBrewer but no reply as their RegQDvar looks ok adjustable up to 100psi
> & comes with the gauge & bits ready to go ,anyone have one of these & do they adjust well ?
> 
> Would like a valve that goes up to at least 30psi so kegs finish carbed
> 
> All advice appreciated Rude


Ginger beers get all pedantic about units but this is why. 
M = mega 
Pa = Pascal. Big P, small a. Small p means something different. 
M is 10^6 or 1 million, yes. 
1 atmosphere is around 0.1 MPa or 101.3 kPa. If the gauge you are looking at has MPa increments it's too high for the purpose of adjusting for carbonation pressure. Carb is typically around 70-85 kPa (0.07 - 0.085 MPa) for most beers.


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## MastersBrewery

Ahh but the device link was rated min spec of 0.05MPa so 50kPa if using for pressure fermenting then pressures used are between 15 and 22psi and I know thats more than 100kPa but CBF doing the conversion. Another member has used that gauge for pessure fermenting and it apparently was easier than the off the shelf spunding valves. Obviously way pricier and you'd still have to track down a guage and fittings.

MB


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## mb-squared

takai said:


> I have used one like this in other applications: http://www.amazon.com/Control-Devices-Pressure-Relief-Adjustable/dp/B007GDY3CU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458626761&sr=8-1&keywords=spunding+valve


that's the one I use. works great as long as you can keep it dry. I ferment in a 50L keg with a regular coupler in it. the gas port is connected to a corny liquid post and I put this spunding valve on the gas connect to the corny. stays dry that way and works great!


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## rude

Thanks Wiggman this is a valve not a gauge so 0.05 Mpa to 1Mpa would alow me to carb
albeit at the lower end of the adjustment

So using a converter 7 psi to 145 psi or 50kpa - 1000kpa hopefully I have it right

Thanks Danscraft so its not too bad good to hear
Would like something up to 30 psi though as that one only goes to 15 psi but still not bad
What & where did you buy you're gauge 80psi

Still waiting for feed back on CraftBrewer's valve gauge set up as it looks ok too


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## rude

Replied too quick cheers all

mb squared sounds like the go using a cornie to put the valve on to keep dry

MB yes have to source gauge fittings works out a bit pricey but if it works better then will go that road


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## trevgale

I tried the keg king spunding valve and found it to be impossible to set accurately. I looked at getting a different style one from the US and decided that I would make a digital one instead. I bought a pressure transducer and a pressure controller from Auber Instruments and a 1/4" solenoid valve of ebay. I put it all in a project box and connected it to the gas in port using a quick disconnect. It lets me accurately set the pressure and be confident it is set right.

I ferment in 50L kegs and typically start at 5psi and then set it to 15psi near the end of fermentation during a diacetyl rest. I then crash chill it and it is fully carbonated naturally. As well as saving on CO2 it also means I can serve straight away if I need to. One time I just hooked a filter inline and served directly from the fermenter.


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## Danscraftbeer

I got the 80psi gauge at KK too. Its exactly the same.
Just unscrew the 15. Screw in the 80. With some plumbers sealant tape. Low cost.


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## mb-squared

trevgale said:


> I tried the keg king spunding valve and found it to be impossible to set accurately. I looked at getting a different style one from the US and decided that I would make a digital one instead. I bought a pressure transducer and a pressure controller from Auber Instruments and a 1/4" solenoid valve of ebay. I put it all in a project box and connected it to the gas in port using a quick disconnect. It lets me accurately set the pressure and be confident it is set right.
> 
> I ferment in 50L kegs and typically start at 5psi and then set it to 15psi near the end of fermentation during a diacetyl rest. I then crash chill it and it is fully carbonated naturally. As well as saving on CO2 it also means I can serve straight away if I need to. One time I just hooked a filter inline and served directly from the fermenter.


hey trevgale, any chance you could post some links to the bits and pieces? I'd like to look into this.

cheers,


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## MastersBrewery

trevgale said:


> I tried the keg king spunding valve and found it to be impossible to set accurately. I looked at getting a different style one from the US and decided that I would make a digital one instead. I bought a pressure transducer and a pressure controller from Auber Instruments and a 1/4" solenoid valve of ebay. I put it all in a project box and connected it to the gas in port using a quick disconnect. It lets me accurately set the pressure and be confident it is set right.
> 
> I ferment in 50L kegs and typically start at 5psi and then set it to 15psi near the end of fermentation during a diacetyl rest. I then crash chill it and it is fully carbonated naturally. As well as saving on CO2 it also means I can serve straight away if I need to. One time I just hooked a filter inline and served directly from the fermenter.


 one of the guys over at HBT did similar but used an arduino or rpi to not only change set pressure and temp, he was using an off the shelf mass flow controller and therefore able to measure expelled Co2 and therefore approximate gravity, if you call accuracey of .001 approximate.


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## mb-squared

wow, this hobby just keeps getting more and more interesting...


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## trevgale

mb-squared said:


> hey trevgale, any chance you could post some links to the bits and pieces? I'd like to look into this.
> 
> cheers,


No worries, these are the main components.

Pressure Controller
Pressure Sensor
Solenoid Valve

The only other components are a 1/4" tee, 1/4" hose barb, hose, gas disconnect, plastic project box from jaycar, power cable and a 1/4" end plug.

When I first put it together I just had the open end of the solenoid valve to release the pressure. However this would release too much pressure due to the ~1sec cycle time. Anyway I put a plug in the end of the solinoid with a 1mm hole drilled in it and this did the trick.

So it's not cheap but it does work perfectly and you can both see the exact pressure it is at and set the desired pressure.


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## barls

i use one of these
Ball lock QD Adjustable Pressure Valve W/Gauge


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## rude

Hey Barls you're my man how do you find it easy to adjust

Trevgale very impressive I assume you do lagers mainly
Any reason you don't just ferment at 15 psi all the way or nearly to the end


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## barls

i use mine for naturally carbing. its pretty easy turn until i get the number i want


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## trevgale

rude said:


> Hey Barls you're my man how do you find it easy to adjust
> 
> Trevgale very impressive I assume you do lagers mainly
> Any reason you don't just ferment at 15 psi all the way or nearly to the end


I mainly use it for lagers, I wanted to experiment with pressure fermentation and was not happy that I could get repeatable results with the manual spunding valve. Fermenting at higher pressures can potentially result in damage to the yeast and result in not achieving full attenuation, based on what I have read. I am still playing around with it.

As I ferment in 50L kegs I tend to use it on all brews, even if it is only at 1psi just so that I can take samples during fermentation. It also make natural carbonation easy.


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## Danscraftbeer

Makes me think of a pressure schedule. Start low to ease the yeast and grade up the pressure over a week? But that's not really simulating the commercial technique which is what we are trying to achieve isn't it? I took 15psi as a standard setting all the way. No need to adjust. Then again I cant see anything wrong with setting the pressure much lower. 1 to 10psi until it stops hissing then tighten the valve for another week. Done! chill, lager, transfer or just dispense and drink.
Ageing preferred.


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## Hpal

Anyone tried one of these on a tyre valve? T
hey are an adjustable pressure relief, no gauge though.


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## pirateagenda

Sorry to bring up an old thread. 

Is there any reason I couldn't just use a non adjustable 25psi relief valve. That would put a beer fermented at 18C at 2.46 volumes of C02 without having to worry about it. 

I guess wouldn't be able to utilise it for lagers as they would overcarb, but i mostly do ales anyway.


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## malt junkie

pirateagenda said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread.
> 
> Is there any reason I couldn't just use a non adjustable 25psi relief valve. That would put a beer fermented at 18C at 2.46 volumes of C02 without having to worry about it.
> 
> I guess wouldn't be able to utilise it for lagers as they would overcarb, but i mostly do ales anyway.


You wouldn't be overcarbing lagers, Your 25psi is at ferment temp say 16°c your required carbonation is around 4°c, you'd most likely be close or just under for carb.


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## klangers

The problem with pressure relief valves is that they're designed to open up to full bore suddenly. If you use these for spunding, then you're likely to release more CO2 than necessary and the pressure will drop more than you want.

The industrial equivalent would be something akin to a back pressure regulator.


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## pcqypcqy

pirateagenda said:


> Sorry to bring up an old thread.
> 
> Is there any reason I couldn't just use a non adjustable 25psi relief valve. That would put a beer fermented at 18C at 2.46 volumes of C02 without having to worry about it.
> 
> I guess wouldn't be able to utilise it for lagers as they would overcarb, but i mostly do ales anyway.


25 psi is probably too high for the early stages of fermentation. Good for carbonation though, so if you could work out how to run at a lower pressure for the first few days, then bung that on, you should be right.


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## pirateagenda

good points! will continue the search for an adjustable one!


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## Mardoo

Keg King sells reasonably functional spunding valves.


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## pcqypcqy

Mardoo said:


> Keg King sells reasonably somewhat functional spunding valves.


Hope you don't mind, I edited your response.

I still struggle to get a consistent value that I want, it's all or nothing at the moment. I find that the valve can wobble a little in the housing, so depending on how I bump this while you adjust the spring tension, I get wild swings in the set pressure. The tiniest winding in or out well give me 1 psi or 25+ psi.

I might try a bit of thread tape or something next time to reduce the wriggle room in the valve so that the only adjustment is to the spring tension, see if that helps.

I'm doing an IPA at the moment and have managed to get it to settle on 10psi for the initial stages. I'll dry hop tomorrow, purge the keg, re pressurise to 10psi, close the valve, then ramp it up to 21 degrees for the d-rest.


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## Mardoo

I can go with somewhat. I'm going to order in a couple others off Amazon and see whether they're any better. They're the ones Takai mentioned, maybe in another thread.


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## Crusty

takai said:


> I have used one like this in other applications: http://www.amazon.com/Control-Devices-Pressure-Relief-Adjustable/dp/B007GDY3CU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1458626761&sr=8-1&keywords=spunding+valve
> 
> But depending on the scale it could be difficult at lower pressures.


I'm about to get the components from Amazon for my setup. Anyone that's gone down this route care to share some pics & tell me how it performs with pressure setting adjustment & reliability etc.
Cheers


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## Mardoo

I'll be getting a couple of those valves Takai mentioned by tomorrow. I should be able to give you my initial experiences by next week.


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## Crusty

Mardoo said:


> I'll be getting a couple of those valves Takai mentioned by tomorrow. I should be able to give you my initial experiences by next week.


Thanks buddy but I'm ordering tonight.
A few of the boys over on one of the US forums use these & are very happy with them.
I'll just bite the bullet & take my chances I think. What fitting are you using to go from the gas QD to the T-Piece?


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## Mardoo

I'm actually retrofitting my two KK spunding valves with new valves and gauges.


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## pcqypcqy

I've done my last ferment using the normal KK valve, but with a small amount of thread tape on the adjustment screw/knob thread. 

This has reduce the wobble significantly and makes the adjustment much less sensitive. 

Good enough for what I want, which is to grossly set the pressure somewhere around 6psi for the primary ferment, and then let it ramp up to 20ish psi during the d-rest so that it settles around 12psi when cold crashed.


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## Mardoo

Derr, never occurred to me. By less sensitive do you mean more controllable? The thing I hate with the KK ones is the random jumps from a limit of 6 PSI to a limit of 12 PSI, for example.


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## AJS2154

Mardoo said:


> Derr, never occurred to me. By les sensitive do you mean more controllable? The thing I hate with the KK ones is the random jumps from a limit of 6 PSI to a limit of 12 PSI, for example.


I have that problem too, mate. 

I have yet to try it but have read on one of the US sites that substituting the existing spring with one that isn't as strong also works. 

Last time I brewed with the KK valve I spent way too much time trying to get it right. Mission impossible was my final conclusion. 

Next brew I will try and report back. Cheers, Anthony.


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## pcqypcqy

Mardoo said:


> Derr, never occurred to me. By less sensitive do you mean more controllable? The thing I hate with the KK ones is the random jumps from a limit of 6 PSI to a limit of 12 PSI, for example.





AJS2154 said:


> I have that problem too, mate.
> 
> I have yet to try it but have read on one of the US sites that substituting the existing spring with one that isn't as strong also works.
> 
> Last time I brewed with the KK valve I spent way too much time trying to get it right. Mission impossible was my final conclusion.
> 
> Next brew I will try and report back. Cheers, Anthony.



Yes, much more controllable. I was getting worse swings than you, either 0 psi or 25 sometimes I swear. 

I think the main issue is that the threads are coarse, and there is too much play between the male and female threads. As such, the knob wobbles around a bit and this appears to dramatically adjust the compression force in the spring. 

The thread tape appears to calm this down some, though I haven't done too many adjustments with it yet. Will see how it goes. I've already bought the the thing so I want to make it work, rather then rebuild the whole valve.


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## Mardoo

pcqypcqy said:


> I've already bought the the thing so I want to make it work, rather then rebuild the whole valve.


I hear ya there. My Mum was coming over so I thought what the hell. Take out shipping and it's not as bad. 

Just got the Control Devices pressure release valves. Damn, these things are SOLID! And chunky. Feels like a quality piece of kit, for sure.


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## Crusty

In my haste & lack of sleep following build links, I ended up ordering the wrong fitting that connects to the gas disconnect. I ordered the 1-1/4" male npt to 1-1/4" female flare ( dickhead ) instead of the 1/4". I got the 60psi gauge & the same pressure release valve as Mardoo above.
Where the hell can I get that fitting from the gas disconnect to the T-Piece? Amazon doesn't seem to have that smaller size anymore.


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## Mardoo

This guy has a more basic, if perhaps less desirable, solution.  Might be easier to find. Would KK carry what you're looking for?


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## SimoB

klangers said:


> The problem with pressure relief valves is that they're designed to open up to full bore suddenly. If you use these for spunding, then you're likely to release more CO2 than necessary and the pressure will drop more than you want.
> 
> The industrial equivalent would be something akin to a back pressure regulator.


Correct, these are the industry standard spunding valves and what we use at the brewery. about $400


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## trevgale

Yeah, the keg king ones are useless. After one use I got the shits and built an electronic one. Auber have a suitable pressure sensor an controller, and i got a 1/4" solenoid valve off ebay. It is highly accurate and there is no fiddling around, a bit expensive though.

Later when i wanted to build two more I just bought the Auber sensors and solenoid valves off ebay and made a controller from an arduino, relay board and display I had lying around. The benefit of this is that you can control as many as you like with the one controller.


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## Mardoo

Niiice. Next life I'll learn electronics properly.


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## malt junkie

trevgale said:


> Yeah, the keg king ones are useless. After one use I got the shits and built an electronic one. Auber have a suitable pressure sensor an controller, and i got a 1/4" solenoid valve off ebay. It is highly accurate and there is no fiddling around, a bit expensive though.
> 
> Later when i wanted to build two more I just bought the Auber sensors and solenoid valves off ebay and made a controller from an arduino, relay board and display I had lying around. The benefit of this is that you can control as many as you like with the one controller.


Don't suppose you have the project up on github might be nice to tie this in with BrewPiless I think I've got a spare pin. Would you consider sharing?


Mardoo said:


> Niiice. Next life I'll learn electronics properly.


Got ya covered Mardoo


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## trevgale

I don't have it up on github but here is the code.


#include <Wire.h>
#include <LiquidCrystal.h> // include LCD library
#include <EEPROM.h>

const byte EEPROM_ID = 0x99;

float pres_1;
float pres_2;

// DEFAULT VALUES - ONLY USED ON FIRST RUN OR IF EEPROM IS NOT AVAILABLE
//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
float SET_PRES_1 = 5; 
float SET_PRES_2 = 5; 
int DELAY = 30;
float Hy = 0.2;
float PRES_OFFSET_1 = 0;
float PRES_OFFSET_2 = 0;

int menu = 1; // Set starting menu to 1 - Pressure Menu

int write_current = 0;

// RELAY CONTROL VARIABLES
//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
int pres_1_relay = 12;
int pres_2_relay = 13;

int countdown_1;
int countdown_2;

long start_time_1;
long start_time_2;

int relay_state_1;
int relay_state_2;

int start_relay_state_1;
int start_relay_state_2;

// EEPROM ADDRESSES FOR STORED VARIABLES
//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
const int ID_ADDR = 0; // the EEPROM address used to store the ID

const int SET_PRES_1_E_ADDR = 1; 
const int SET_PRES_2_E_ADDR = 2; 
const int DELAY_E_ADDR = 3;
const int Hy_E_ADDR = 4;
const int PRES_OFFSET_1_E_ADDR = 5;
const int PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E_ADDR = 6;
const int PRES_OFFSET_2_E_ADDR = 7;
const int PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E_ADDR = 8;

int SET_PRES_1_E;
int SET_PRES_2_E;
int DELAY_E; 
int Hy_E;
int PRES_OFFSET_1_E;
int PRES_OFFSET_2_E;
int PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E;
int PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E;

/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Defines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
// Pins in use
#define BUTTON_ADC_PIN A0 // A0 is the button ADC input
#define LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN 3 // D3 controls LCD backlight
// ADC readings expected for the 5 buttons on the ADC input
#define RIGHT_10BIT_ADC 0 // right
#define UP_10BIT_ADC 145 // up
#define DOWN_10BIT_ADC 329 // down
#define LEFT_10BIT_ADC 505 // left
#define SELECT_10BIT_ADC 741 // right
#define BUTTONHYSTERESIS 10 // hysteresis for valid button sensing window
//return values for ReadButtons()
#define BUTTON_NONE 0 // 
#define BUTTON_RIGHT 1 // 
#define BUTTON_UP 2 // 
#define BUTTON_DOWN 3 // 
#define BUTTON_LEFT 4 // 
#define BUTTON_SELECT 5 // 
//some example macros with friendly labels for LCD backlight/pin control, tested and can be swapped into the example code as you like
#define LCD_BACKLIGHT_OFF() digitalWrite( LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN, LOW )
#define LCD_BACKLIGHT_ON() digitalWrite( LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN, HIGH )
#define LCD_BACKLIGHT(state) { if( state ){digitalWrite( LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN, HIGH );}else{digitalWrite( LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN, LOW );} }
/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Variables
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
byte buttonJustPressed = false; //this will be true after a ReadButtons() call if triggered
byte buttonJustReleased = false; //this will be true after a ReadButtons() call if triggered
byte buttonWas = BUTTON_NONE; //used by ReadButtons() for detection of button events
/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Init the LCD library with the LCD pins to be used
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
LiquidCrystal lcd( 8, 9, 4, 5, 6, 7 ); //Pins for the freetronics 16x2 LCD shield. LCD: ( RS, E, LCD-D4, LCD-D5, LCD-D6, LCD-D7 )
/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 setup()
 Called by the Arduino framework once, before the main loop begins
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/

//Presure Sensor Details
//----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#define SENSOR_1_PIN A4 // Pin that pressure sensor 1 is connected to
#define SENSOR_2_PIN A5 // Pin that pressure sensor 2 is connected to

#define NUM_SAMPLES 50 // Number of samples 

int INPUT_ARRAY_1[NUM_SAMPLES]; // Setup input array
int INPUT_ARRAY_2[NUM_SAMPLES]; // Setup input array
int i; // Integer for inputing values into array

// REFRESH TIMES
//----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
long previousMillis_1 = 0; 
long interval_1 = 1000; // Serial refresh time

long previousMillis_2 = 0; 
long interval_2 = 1000; // LCD refresh time

long previousMillis_3 = 0; 
long interval_3 = 500; // Button debounce time (LEFT & RIGHT)

long previousMillis_6 = 0; 
long interval_6 = 2000; // Delay between probe probe reads

//______________________________________________________________________________________________

// PROGRAM SETUP
//______________________________________________________________________________________________

void setup()
{

// Serial.begin(9600); 


// READ STORED VARIABLES FROM EEPROM
//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

// Serial.println("Using data from EEPROM");
 SET_PRES_1_E = EEPROM.read(SET_PRES_1_E_ADDR);
 SET_PRES_2_E = EEPROM.read(SET_PRES_2_E_ADDR); 
 DELAY_E = EEPROM.read(DELAY_E_ADDR);
 Hy_E = EEPROM.read(Hy_E_ADDR);
 PRES_OFFSET_1_E = EEPROM.read(PRES_OFFSET_1_E_ADDR);
 PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E = EEPROM.read(PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E_ADDR); 
 PRES_OFFSET_2_E = EEPROM.read(PRES_OFFSET_2_E_ADDR);
 PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E = EEPROM.read(PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E_ADDR);

// Calculate SET_PRES values from stored integers
 SET_PRES_1 = SET_PRES_1_E;
 SET_PRES_2 = SET_PRES_2_E;

// Calculate DELAY value from stored integers
 DELAY = DELAY_E;

// Calculate stored Hy value from integers
 Hy = 0.1 * Hy_E;

// Calculate stored Pressure Offset values from integers 
 if(PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E == 1){
 PRES_OFFSET_1 = 0.1 * PRES_OFFSET_1_E;
 }
 else if(PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E == 2){
 PRES_OFFSET_1 = -0.1 * PRES_OFFSET_1_E;
 }

 if(PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E == 1){
 PRES_OFFSET_2 = 0.1 * PRES_OFFSET_2_E;
 }
 else if(PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E == 2){
 PRES_OFFSET_2 = -0.1 * PRES_OFFSET_2_E;
 }


 //button adc input
 pinMode( BUTTON_ADC_PIN, INPUT ); //ensure A0 is an input
 digitalWrite( BUTTON_ADC_PIN, LOW ); //ensure pullup is off on A0
 //lcd backlight control
 digitalWrite( LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN, HIGH ); //backlight control pin D3 is high (on)
 pinMode( LCD_BACKLIGHT_PIN, OUTPUT ); //D3 is an output
 //set up the LCD number of columns and rows: 
 lcd.begin( 16, 2 );

// RELAY CLOCKS AND PIN OUTPUT
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 start_time_1 = -1000*DELAY;
 start_time_2 = -1000*DELAY;

 pinMode(pres_1_relay, OUTPUT); 
 pinMode(pres_2_relay, OUTPUT);

 digitalWrite(pres_1_relay, HIGH);
 digitalWrite(pres_2_relay, HIGH);
}

//______________________________________________________________________________________________

// MAIN PROGRAM LOOP
//______________________________________________________________________________________________
void loop()
{

 float media_1; 
 float media_2;


 countdown_1 = DELAY - (millis() - start_time_1)/1000;
 countdown_1 = constrain(countdown_1, 0, DELAY);

 countdown_2 = DELAY - (millis() - start_time_2)/1000;
 countdown_2 = constrain(countdown_2, 0, DELAY); 

 start_relay_state_1 = digitalRead(pres_1_relay); 
 start_relay_state_2 = digitalRead(pres_2_relay); 

 unsigned long currentMillis_6 = millis();

 if(currentMillis_6 - previousMillis_6 > interval_6) {
 previousMillis_6 = currentMillis_6; 


 // Writes resistance readings from analog pin to array
 for (i=0; i< NUM_SAMPLES; i++) {
 INPUT_ARRAY_1_ = analogRead(SENSOR_1_PIN);__
 INPUT_ARRAY_2 = analogRead(SENSOR_2_PIN); 
 }

 // Sums array values
 media_1= 0;
 media_2= 0;
 for (i=0; i< NUM_SAMPLES; i++) {
 media_1 += INPUT_ARRAY_1;
 media_2 += INPUT_ARRAY_2;
 }
 // Divides sum of array values by number of entries to find average
 media_1 = media_1 / NUM_SAMPLES;
 media_2 = media_2 / NUM_SAMPLES;

 // Convert the thermal stress value to resistance
 media_1 = (media_1 * 5) / 1024;
 media_2 = (media_2 * 5) / 1024;

 pres_1 = PRES_OFFSET_1 -14.5 + (media_1 - 0.5) * (36.3 + 14.5) / (4.5 - 0.5);
 pres_2 = PRES_OFFSET_2 -14.5 + (media_2 - 0.5) * (36.3 + 14.5) / (4.5 - 0.5);

 pres_1 = constrain(pres_1, 0, 40);
 pres_2 = constrain(pres_2, 0, 40);


// SET RELAY OUTPUTS
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 if(pres_1 > SET_PRES_1 && countdown_1==0)
 { 
 digitalWrite(pres_1_relay, LOW);
 }
 else if(pres_1 > SET_PRES_1 && countdown_1 > 0)
 { 
 digitalWrite(pres_1_relay, HIGH);
 } 
 else if(pres_1 <= SET_PRES_1 && pres_1 > SET_PRES_1 - Hy)
 {
 digitalWrite(pres_1_relay, LOW);
 } 
 else if(pres_1 <= SET_PRES_1 - Hy)
 {
 digitalWrite(pres_1_relay, HIGH);
 }

 if(pres_2 > SET_PRES_2 && countdown_2==0)
 { 
 digitalWrite(pres_2_relay, LOW);
 }
 else if(pres_2 > SET_PRES_2 && countdown_2 > 0)
 { 
 digitalWrite(pres_2_relay, HIGH);
 } 
 else if(pres_2 <= SET_PRES_2 && pres_2 > SET_PRES_2 - Hy)
 {
 digitalWrite(pres_2_relay, LOW);
 } 
 else if(pres_2 <= SET_PRES_2 - Hy)
 {
 digitalWrite(pres_2_relay, HIGH);
 }


 relay_state_1 = digitalRead(pres_1_relay);
 relay_state_2 = digitalRead(pres_2_relay);

 if(relay_state_1 == HIGH && start_relay_state_1 == LOW) {
 start_time_1 = millis();
 } 

 if(relay_state_2 == HIGH && start_relay_state_2 == LOW) {
 start_time_2 = millis();
 } 
 } 


 byte button;
 byte timestamp;

 //get the latest button pressed, also the buttonJustPressed, buttonJustReleased flags
 button = ReadButtons();
 //blank the demo text line if a new button is pressed or released, ready for a new label to be written
/* if( buttonJustPressed || buttonJustReleased )
 {
 lcd.setCursor( 4, 1 );
 lcd.print( " " );
 }
 //show text label for the button pressed
 switch( button )
 {
 case BUTTON_NONE:
 {
 break;
 }
 case BUTTON_RIGHT:
 {
 Serial.print( "RIGHT" );
 break;
 }
 case BUTTON_UP:
 {
 Serial.print( "UP" );
 break;
 }
 case BUTTON_DOWN:
 {
 Serial.print( "DOWN" );
 break;
 }
 case BUTTON_LEFT:
 {
 Serial.print( "LEFT" );
 break;
 }
 case BUTTON_SELECT:
 {
 Serial.print( "SELECT" ); 


 //clear the buttonJustPressed or buttonJustReleased flags, they've already done their job now.
 if( buttonJustPressed )
 buttonJustPressed = false;
 if( buttonJustReleased )
 buttonJustReleased = false;


// MENUS AND VARIABLE INPUTS
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

//MENU 1 - MAIN MENU ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 if(menu==1){
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "F1 " );

 lcd.setCursor( 7, 0 );
 lcd.print( "psi " );

 lcd.setCursor( 11, 0 );
 if(SET_PRES_1<10){
 lcd.print(" ");
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_1,0);
 }
 else
 {
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_1,0);
 }
 lcd.print( "psi" );

 lcd.setCursor( 13, 0 );
 lcd.print( "psi" );


 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print( "F2 " );

 lcd.setCursor( 7, 1 );
 lcd.print( "psi " );

 lcd.setCursor( 11, 1 );
 if(SET_PRES_2 < 10){
  lcd.print(" ");
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_2,0);
 }
 else
 {
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_2,0);
 }
 lcd.print( "psi" );

 lcd.setCursor( 13, 1 );
 lcd.print( "psi" );


 lcd.setCursor( 3, 0 ); 
 if(pres_1 < 10){
 lcd.print(" ");
 lcd.print(pres_1,1);
 }
 else
 {
 lcd.print(pres_1,1);
 }

 lcd.setCursor( 3, 1 );
 if(pres_2<10){
 lcd.print(" ");
 lcd.print(pres_2,1);
 }
 else
 {
 lcd.print(pres_2,1);
 } 


 if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu = 5;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu = 2;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){
 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 } 
 }
 }

//MENU 2 - Fermentor 1 Set Pressure ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 else if(menu==2){
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "Fermentor 1 " ); 
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print( "Set Pres: " ); 

 lcd.setCursor( 10, 1 );
 if(SET_PRES_1<10){
 lcd.print(" ");
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_1,0);
 }
 else
 {
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_1,0);
 }
 lcd.print( "psi " );


 if(button==BUTTON_UP){
 SET_PRES_1++;
 SET_PRES_1 = constrain(SET_PRES_1, 0, 30);
 write_current = 1;
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_DOWN){
 SET_PRES_1--;
 SET_PRES_1 = constrain(SET_PRES_1, 0, 30);
 write_current = 1;
 } 

 else if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu = 3;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){

 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 }

 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }

 }


//MENU 3 - Fermenter 2 Set Pressure ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 else if(menu==3){
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "Fermentor 2 " ); 
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print( "Set Pres: " ); 

 lcd.setCursor( 10, 1 );
 if(SET_PRES_1 < 10){
 lcd.print(" ");
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_2,0);
 }
 else
 {
 lcd.print(SET_PRES_2,0);
 }
 lcd.print( "psi " );


 if(button==BUTTON_UP){
 SET_PRES_2++;
 SET_PRES_2 = constrain(SET_PRES_2, 0, 30);
 write_current = 1;
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_DOWN){
 SET_PRES_2--;
 SET_PRES_2 = constrain(SET_PRES_2, 0, 30);
 write_current = 1;
 } 

 else if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu--;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu++;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){ 
 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 }
 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }

 }



//MENU 4 - Solenoid Delay ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 else if(menu==4){
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "Solenoid Delay:" );

 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print(DELAY);
 lcd.print( "sec " );


 if(button==BUTTON_UP){
 DELAY++;
 DELAY = constrain(DELAY, 0, 600);
 write_current = 1; 
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_DOWN){
 DELAY--;
 DELAY = constrain(DELAY, 0, 600);
 write_current = 1; 
 } 

 if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu--;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu++;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){

 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 }

 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }

 } 

//MENU 5 - Hysteresis ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 else if(menu==5){ 
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "Pressure Hyst: " );

 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print(Hy,1); 
 lcd.print( "psi " );


 if(button==BUTTON_UP){
 Hy = Hy + 0.1;
 Hy = constrain(Hy, 0, 5);
 write_current = 1; 
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_DOWN){
 Hy = Hy - 0.1;
 Hy = constrain(Hy, 0, 5);
 write_current = 1; 
 } 

 if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu--;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu++;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){

 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 }

 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }

 }


//MENU 6 - Pressure Offset 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 else if(menu==6){ 
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "Pressure Offset 1: " );

 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print(PRES_OFFSET_1,1); 
 lcd.print( "psi " );


 if(button==BUTTON_UP){
 PRES_OFFSET_1 = PRES_OFFSET_1 + 0.1;
 write_current = 1; 
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_DOWN){
 PRES_OFFSET_1 = PRES_OFFSET_1 - 0.1;
 write_current = 1; 
 } 

 if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu--;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu++;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){

 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 }

 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }

 }

//MENU 7 - Pressure Offset 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 else if(menu==7){ 
 lcd.setCursor( 0, 0 ); 
 lcd.print( "Pressure Offset 2: " );

 lcd.setCursor( 0, 1 ); 
 lcd.print(PRES_OFFSET_2,1); 
 lcd.print( "psi " );


 if(button==BUTTON_UP){
 PRES_OFFSET_2 = PRES_OFFSET_2 + 0.1;
 write_current = 1; 
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_DOWN){
 PRES_OFFSET_2 = PRES_OFFSET_2 - 0.1;
 write_current = 1; 
 } 

 if(button==BUTTON_LEFT){
 menu--;
 lcd.clear();
 }
 else if(button==BUTTON_RIGHT){
 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 } 
 else if(button==BUTTON_SELECT){

 if(write_current == 1)
 {
 eeprom_save_standard();
 write_current = 0;
 }

 menu = 1;
 lcd.clear();
 }

 }

}


//____________________________________________________________________________________________

// BUTTON READ SUB ROUTINE 
//____________________________________________________________________________________________
byte ReadButtons()
{
 unsigned int buttonVoltage;

 unsigned long currentMillis_3 = millis(); 


 byte button = BUTTON_NONE; // return no button pressed if the below checks don't write to btn

 //read the button ADC pin voltage
 buttonVoltage = analogRead( BUTTON_ADC_PIN );
 //sense if the voltage falls within valid voltage windows

 if(currentMillis_3 - previousMillis_3 > interval_3) {
 previousMillis_3 = currentMillis_3; 

 if( buttonVoltage < ( RIGHT_10BIT_ADC + BUTTONHYSTERESIS ) )
 {
 button = BUTTON_RIGHT;
 }
 else if( buttonVoltage >= ( UP_10BIT_ADC - BUTTONHYSTERESIS )
 && buttonVoltage <= ( UP_10BIT_ADC + BUTTONHYSTERESIS ) )
 {
 button = BUTTON_UP;
 }
 else if( buttonVoltage >= ( DOWN_10BIT_ADC - BUTTONHYSTERESIS )
 && buttonVoltage <= ( DOWN_10BIT_ADC + BUTTONHYSTERESIS ) )
 {
 button = BUTTON_DOWN;
 }
 else if( buttonVoltage >= ( LEFT_10BIT_ADC - BUTTONHYSTERESIS )
 && buttonVoltage <= ( LEFT_10BIT_ADC + BUTTONHYSTERESIS ) )
 {
 button = BUTTON_LEFT;
 }
 else if( buttonVoltage >= ( SELECT_10BIT_ADC - BUTTONHYSTERESIS )
 && buttonVoltage <= ( SELECT_10BIT_ADC + BUTTONHYSTERESIS ) )
 {
 button = BUTTON_SELECT;
 }
 } 
 //handle button flags for just pressed and just released events
 if( ( buttonWas == BUTTON_NONE ) && ( button != BUTTON_NONE ) )
 {
 //the button was just pressed, set buttonJustPressed, this can optionally be used to trigger a once-off action for a button press event
 //it's the duty of the receiver to clear these flags if it wants to detect a new button change event
 buttonJustPressed = true;
 buttonJustReleased = false;
 }
 if( ( buttonWas != BUTTON_NONE ) && ( button == BUTTON_NONE ) )
 {
 buttonJustPressed = false;
 buttonJustReleased = true;
 }

 //save the latest button value, for change event detection next time round
 buttonWas = button;

 return( button );
}



//____________________________________________________________________________________________

// SAVE STANDARD VALUES TO EEPROM 
//____________________________________________________________________________________________
void eeprom_save_standard() {

// Convert decimal values to integers for saving 
 SET_PRES_1_E = SET_PRES_1;
 SET_PRES_2_E = SET_PRES_2; 
 Hy_E = 10 * Hy;
 DELAY_E = DELAY;
 PRES_OFFSET_1_E = 10 * PRES_OFFSET_1;
 PRES_OFFSET_2_E = 10 * PRES_OFFSET_2;

 if(PRES_OFFSET_1 >= 0){
 PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E = 1;
 }
 else {
 PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E = 2;
 }

 if(PRES_OFFSET_2 >= 0){
 PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E = 1;
 }
 else {
 PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E = 2;
 }



// Send message to serial 
 Serial.println("Writing default data to EEPROM");

// Write values to EEPROM
 EEPROM.write(ID_ADDR,EEPROM_ID); // write the ID to indicate valid data
 EEPROM.write(SET_PRES_1_E_ADDR, SET_PRES_1_E); 
 EEPROM.write(SET_PRES_2_E_ADDR, SET_PRES_2_E); 
 EEPROM.write(Hy_E_ADDR, Hy_E); 
 EEPROM.write(DELAY_E_ADDR, DELAY_E);
 EEPROM.write(PRES_OFFSET_1_E_ADDR, PRES_OFFSET_1_E); 
 EEPROM.write(PRES_OFFSET_2_E_ADDR, PRES_OFFSET_2_E); 
 EEPROM.write(PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E_ADDR, PRES_OFFSET_1_SIGN_E);
 EEPROM.write(PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E_ADDR, PRES_OFFSET_2_SIGN_E);

} _


----------



## Maheel

out of interest for the arduino setup could you use this sort of thing for the sensor?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-0-8-Mpa-Stainless-Steel-Fluid-Pressure-Sensor-G1-4-inch-for-Water-Air-Oil-5V-/271802302504?hash=item3f48ae0028:g:ZiUAAOSwnHZYaPtk

I have the KK style spunding but also have plenty of arduino stuff (no pressure sensors but)

thanks for the code


----------



## malt junkie

trevgale,
rather than drag this thread further off track, I'll send you a PM this evening; very interested, as the Developer of BrewPiLess is also adding ispindel too, so both temp and pressure could be adjusted per gravity, all able to be monitored over wireless network, or the internet if you so chose.


----------



## Maheel

may have found some of the answer myself and a new item for my next arduino ordering....

https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=363186.0


but it does not release the pressure..... so need some sort of solenoid valve thing.. for the psst psst psst release gas option


----------



## trevgale

Maheel said:


> out of interest for the arduino setup could you use this sort of thing for the sensor?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-0-8-Mpa-Stainless-Steel-Fluid-Pressure-Sensor-G1-4-inch-for-Water-Air-Oil-5V-/271802302504?hash=item3f48ae0028:g:ZiUAAOSwnHZYaPtk
> 
> I have the KK style spunding but also have plenty of arduino stuff (no pressure sensors but)
> 
> thanks for the code


You probably could, but the range might be a little high, reducing accuracy. Although it would probably still be accurate enough. Here is a link to the ones I have used:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=311


----------



## trevgale

malt junkie said:


> trevgale,
> rather than drag this thread further off track, I'll send you a PM this evening; very interested, as the Developer of BrewPiLess is also adding ispindel too, so both temp and pressure could be adjusted per gravity, all able to be monitored over wireless network, or the internet if you so chose.


Yeah send me a pm, I would be happy for you to use any of the code you want, sounds like an interesting project.

This code originally started as a network controlled, multi chamber STC style temperature controller. Then I discovered diy brewpi and used those. Later on I started pressure fermenting and figured I could reuse a lot of what i had already written and learnt to make a pressure controller. I ended up ditching the network based stuff because it was a bit clunky and I didn't really need it for pressure.


----------



## Mardoo

Well, I finished pimping my KK Spunding valve, or rather, my KK brass T and connecting bits. Giving it a run on a pressurised lager ferment. Let's see how it goes, eh? I'll be rather indisposed, so I'm throwing trust in a blank direction.


----------



## 5150

Mardoo said:


> Well, I finished pimping my KK Spunding valve, or rather, my KK brass T and connecting bits. Giving it a run on a pressurised lager ferment. Let's see how it goes, eh? I'll be rather indisposed, so I'm throwing trust in a blank direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1494253310.638796.jpg


I'm looking forward to hearing how it go's Mardoo. I'm a little over the KK ones. If it works well I can imagine it wouldn't be hard to organize a bulk buy of these.


----------



## mr_wibble

What are the thread types on the KK spundie ?

I want to DIY a computer-controlled spunding valve, be nice if I could just "jack in" to the end of the KK pipe.
Just looking at solenoid valves now.


----------



## Grott

Out of interest I got the KK unit to work fairly well. I removed the adjuster, spring and gas seal stopper and keg lubed the inside thread of the unit, ends of the spring and the thread on the adjuster which made adjusting very smooth.
To set the unit, say I want 10psi. Put co2 at 13/14 psi into a PET bottle using a carbonation cap, connect the unit in closed position then slowly open until hiss heard, back off a bit and your close to spot on, which the gauge will indicate.


----------



## mr_wibble

grott said:


> Out of interest I got the KK unit to work fairly well. I removed the adjuster, spring and gas seal stopper and keg lubed the inside thread of the unit, ends of the spring and the thread on the adjuster which made adjusting very smooth.
> To set the unit, say I want 10psi. Put co2 at 13/14 psi into a PET bottle using a carbonation cap, connect the unit in closed position then slowly open until hiss heard, back off a bit and your close to spot on, which the gauge will indicate.


Hmm, that's a really good idea.

I already lubed mine up a-plenty. But I'd missed the fermentation boat by then, all the gas had escaped, and now it's basically failing to re-pressureise with the screw wound all the way in. I suspect it's because fermentation is finished, but I had it closed-off right through the 13-18oC rest and to be honest, I did expect a bit of pressure out of this. So I'm scratching me head a bit as to why it hasn't re-pressurised. 

I'm mostly certain I re-assembled the spundie' correctly after lubing.


----------



## Bribie G

#include <stdio.h>

main( )
{
 printf("hello, beer\n");
}
Now we've got that out of the way, thanks for that Grott, that had been putting me off getting a KK valve when I looked into this thread last year.

A question: rather than trawl through 55 posts, is that the $29.95 valve from KK?
I thought I saw figures like $88 in some of the posts, which had also been putting me off.

I want to try brewing lagers in a cornie with a cut back dip tube, under pressure and also over gravity, like the megaswillers do, then transfer to a clean cornie and liquor back with deoxygenated water.
If that's the right price (plus a SS quick disconnect of course) then I'll definitely make that my next project.


----------



## Grott

Yes, the right price.
Cheers


----------



## rude

Mr Wibble said:


> Hmm, that's a really good idea.
> 
> I already lubed mine up a-plenty. But I'd missed the fermentation boat by then, all the gas had escaped, and now it's basically failing to re-pressureise with the screw wound all the way in. I suspect it's because fermentation is finished, but I had it closed-off right through the 13-18oC rest and to be honest, I did expect a bit of pressure out of this. So I'm scratching me head a bit as to why it hasn't re-pressurised.
> 
> I'm mostly certain I re-assembled the spundie' correctly after lubing.


Ive done 2 pressure ferments now & both times didnt realise the gauge had gone all the 
way around thought I had no pressure was set to 10psi
Let pressure out to 10 psi & it stayed there even when I closed the valve off
Beers came out nice a couple of kolsch's attenuation better than I normally get
Will try youre tip Grot cheers
Intrested in how you go Mardoo also
When I first started looking into pressure ferment came across Trevgale Post who has a digital one from Auberins
but its a bit pricey but looks the go
A spare corny set up for blow off with the valve on it sounds like the way to go as well


----------



## Bribie G

grott said:


> Yes, the right price.
> Cheers



Ordered.

Mate, I suddenly remembered where I got the Price from Hell from, one of the forum sponsors has the valve plus QD listed for about $70.

Feck me dead.

Should be here by the weekend,, now to fire up Brewmate


----------



## pcqypcqy

I tried the lube but it didn't work so great for me.

'That's what SHE said' they all say.

'IN BED' I retort.

Much fun was had by all.


----------



## Crusty

Mardoo said:


> Well, I finished pimping my KK Spunding valve, or rather, my KK brass T and connecting bits. Giving it a run on a pressurised lager ferment. Let's see how it goes, eh? I'll be rather indisposed, so I'm throwing trust in a blank direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1494253310.638796.jpg


What T-Piece did you use Mardoo ( Link )
I went down to my local & they only have bsp so my adjustable pressure valve screws in half a turn then locks up.
He measured the thing & reckons I need a tap to tap out the T-Piece, NPTF, 3/8", 18 TPI. I'm not wanting to go down that path.
How about the gauge, is it bsp or npt?


----------



## Crusty

I finally got my spunding valve operational & the pressure tests tonight are excellent. I've been fermenting in an A type keg using a Sanke fermenting kit but taking hydro samples are really difficult so I've been avoiding them altogether. With the spunding valve, hydro samples will be a breeze, keg transfers easy & I can naturally carbonate as well. I had no luck finding a fitting that would connect the gas post thread to the thread on the bush that screws into the t-piece. A mate ended up re-tapping the thread for me with a 7/16th USF or USN thread from memory. The unit holds pressure as set & settles to adjustment psi precisely. Looking forward to see how it goes but from all reports, less esters, less phenol's & more aroma absorbed into the beer under a pressure ferment.


----------



## Mardoo

That's awesome, oh great Crusty One. I was terribly stoked tonight to find out my ferment-in-absentia is doing what I want. I pitched it the night before my surgery, and four days in it's holding right below 10PSI, right where I wanted it. Totally chuffed! You'll notice that the pressure scale on the blowoff valve is off, so not ideal, but I set the blowoff using my Harris reg anyway. I guessed this would be the case since the pressure rating on the valve is 100PSI and I'm usually only using it in the first 10% of its range.

View attachment 97225


----------



## Mardoo

Not sure the image loaded:




Funnily enough I set it to 9.5PSI JIC. Looks like I didn't need to!


----------



## Dae Tripper

Where you getting these valves from? The link says they won't post to Australia


----------



## Mardoo

My Mum was coming over so I got her to bring them. Once she goes back she can send me more if you want to get some. Happy to do that.


----------



## abyss

Is your Mum interested in organising a bulk buy ?
Wish her a happy Mothers Day from me regardless.


----------



## Crusty

Dae Tripper said:


> Where you getting these valves from? The link says they won't post to Australia


https://shopmate.auspost.com.au/

Just sign up & open an account. Shop anywhere & get it delivered to your American address.
Australia post then forwards it onto your home address.


----------



## Grott

Good one Crusty. Is postage cheaper than those ridiculous prices stated such as on eBay?


----------



## Crusty

grott said:


> Good one Crusty. Is postage cheaper than those ridiculous prices stated such as on eBay?


It depends really. I got my gauge & pressure relief valve on Amazon & they offered free postage so it arrived at my US address free of charge.
Australia post then forwarded it to me for $22.32. It at least allows you to purchase gear from suppliers that just won't ship to Australia.
When you get allocated your US shipping address, don't forget to add a new address under the my addresses tab & put your home address in there.
It's really straight forward & your kept up to date with exactly where your package is. It's a really good service & it comes in very handy.


----------



## Grott

Sorry to be a pest Crusty but is it that you won't know the cost to Aust. until it arrives at the American address?


----------



## Grott

Apologies, I read the shipping rates and also shipping calculator.


----------



## rude

Crusty said:


> I finally got my spunding valve operational & the pressure tests tonight are excellent. I've been fermenting in an A type keg using a Sanke fermenting kit but taking hydro samples are really difficult so I've been avoiding them altogether. With the spunding valve, hydro samples will be a breeze, keg transfers easy & I can naturally carbonate as well. I had no luck finding a fitting that would connect the gas post thread to the thread on the bush that screws into the t-piece. A mate ended up re-tapping the thread for me with a 7/16th USF or USN thread from memory. The unit holds pressure as set & settles to adjustment psi precisely. Looking forward to see how it goes but from all reports, less esters, less phenol's & more aroma absorbed into the beer under a pressure ferment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20170514_195655 (Medium).jpg


Looks good Crusty so I've got myself an address in the States through shop mate cheers

Carted a valve , gauge , tee piece all 1/4 npt just need 1/4" npt male to the thread size of gas disconnect female ????

7/16 usf or usn ???


----------



## Crusty

rude said:


> Looks good Crusty so I've got myself an address in the States through shop mate cheers
> 
> Carted a valve , gauge , tee piece all 1/4 npt just need 1/4" npt male to the thread size of gas disconnect female ????
> 
> 7/16 usf or usn ???


I couldn't find that fitting that screwed onto the ball lock thread. My town sucks for getting anything.
I'm pretty sure that it was USN. I'll see if I can find out.


----------



## Mardoo

abyss said:


> Is your Mum interested in organising a bulk buy ?
> Wish her a happy Mothers Day from me regardless.


I'm happy to organise a buy, if people want to give these PRV's a bash. I got one gauge from Amazon (US made) and one from a U.K. site (Italian made), so will post opinions once I get the second valve set up. The Italian one is damn solidly built! Shipping from the States isn't cheap, no matter how you do it. Well, containers can be good, but that's a whole lotta spunding!

You need lagering,
Baby I'm not palavering,
Im gonna send you,
Back to cooling. 
Way, way down inside
There's a PRV
Gonna give me your spund,
Gonna have me a spund,
Want a whole lotta spund. 
Got a whole lotta spund.

I think I can be confident the painkillers have kicked in now…time for some Zeppelin.


----------



## Benn

Mardoo said:


> I think I can be confident the painkillers have kicked in now…time for some Zeppelin.


Yep, Sounds like they have. It's always a good time for Zeppelin with optional painkillers.


----------



## Mardoo

It certainly was how the music was made 

And man, isn't II just s sublime album.


----------



## rude

> It certainly was how the music was made
> 
> And man, isn't II just s sublime album.


Led Zepp 2 was my first album I bought & fav


----------



## rude

> I couldn't find that fitting that screwed onto the ball lock thread. My town sucks for getting anything.
> I'm pretty sure that it was USN. I'll see if I can find out.


When looking up the gas disconnects they say 1/4" MLF ???

So M for male LF not sure on Fine ???? anyone


----------



## rude

Think I'll try 1/4" NPT male to 1/4" female inverted flare fitting


----------



## Midnight Brew

Mardoo said:


> You need lagering,
> Baby I'm not palavering,
> Im gonna send you,
> Back to cooling.
> Way, way down inside
> There's a PRV
> Gonna give me your spund,
> Gonna have me a spund,
> Want a whole lotta spund.
> Got a whole lotta spund.
> I think I can be confident the painkillers have kicked in now…time for some Zeppelin.


. 

Hahaha I actually read that in tune and had a chuckle. Dedicated homebrewer you are.


----------



## Mardoo

Did you do the kind of airplaney guitar sound?


----------



## Mall

Anyone tried this: https://www.ibrew.com.au/products/c02-pressure-relief-valve


----------



## malt junkie

Same as the more beer one, not tried it myself but from what I've read they're pretty good.


----------



## Mall

Just ordered, so see how it performs.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Mall said:


> Anyone tried this: https://www.ibrew.com.au/products/c02-pressure-relief-valve


That looks to have a similar mechanism to the KK ones. Not saying they'll be as bad, will be interested to see how they go.


----------



## Mardoo

Hey guys, someone PM'd me about my spunding valve setting process, and thought I'd put it up here as well. Not rocket science, and it's already been covered in a number of ways, but maybe it'll spark further discussion/give ideas.

I keep my spare clean, sanitised kegs at 10PSI. When setting a spunding valve, I double-check the pressure on one of the spares, bump it up to 12PSI, and then put the spunding valve on the gas post, with the valve set at around 20PSI. I lower the valve venting pressure until the gas starts to bleed off. As I allow the keg to bleed down to 10PSI, I slowly lower the valve venting pressure until the spunding valve reads 10PSI and the keg has stopped venting. Then I put the spunding valve on the fermenting keg.

I'll add that I was originally purging oxygen from my fermenting kegs, and using the fill and purge cycle to set the pressure on the valve. I suddenly twigged this last time that the yeast will use up the oxygen, so no need to purge the fermenting kegs.


----------



## mr_wibble

Mardoo said:


> I keep my spare clean, sanitised kegs at 10PSI. When setting a spunding valve, I double-check the pressure on one of the spares, bump it up to 12PSI, and then put the spunding valve on the gas post, with the valve set at around 20PSI. I lower the valve venting pressure until the gas starts to bleed off. As I allow the keg to bleed down to 10PSI, I slowly lower the valve venting pressure until the spunding valve reads 10PSI and the keg has stopped venting. Then I put the spunding valve on the fermenting keg.


10PSI == 69kPa == 0.69 Bar
12PSI == 83kPa == 0.83 Bar
20PSI == 138kPa == 1.38 Bar

So with the KK spundie, I could pressurise an empty keg, then attach the valve, and twiddle the knob until it slowly (over say an hour) drops back to where I want it ?

Based on very limited experience, you really only want to move it a tiny amount and see where (later on) the pressure comes to rest at.
Anyone have a winning method for this? Turn it 0.3 of a beesdick ?
If you can't hear it hissing, does that mean no gas is escaping?


----------



## good4whatAlesU

Those look a little similar to the pressure release mechanism on my counter pressure bottle filler. 

At a pinch I suppose the CPBF could be attached via a bit of hose and disconnect to the keg, and the gas release valve used to control/release pressure. However without a pressure gauge you would be flying somewhat blind. 

Maybe if someone was clever they could put the two instruments together and sell them as one product.

Edit: looks like you can already buy a CPBF with a pressure gauge (the model I have is the povo one without a gauge) .. anyway, if its the same sort of valve as on the spunding thingo, it could be hooked up to the keg and used dual purpose. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Stainless-Steel-Counter-Pressure-Gauge-Beer-Bottle-Filler-For-HomeBrew-CO2-/262871811574?hash=item3d346185f6:gWkAAOSwZ4dZHLwR


----------



## Grott

If you don't have a spare keg or perhaps use less co2 :-




grott said:


> To set the unit, say I want 10psi. Put co2 at 13/14 psi into a PET bottle using a carbonation cap, connect the unit in closed position then slowly open until hiss heard, back off a bit and your close to spot on, which the gauge will indicate.


----------



## Crusty

Just a quick question.
After transferring to the fermenting keg & oxygenating the wort, spundie set at 10psi, would you add co2 & purge the keg completely & hook up the spundie with no bottle fed co2. Spundie gauge will read 0 Pressure but it's set to 10psi & will climb to set point then release excess pressure or purge & add 10psi of pressure then hook up the spundie.


----------



## 5150

Hey Crusty, I don't worry about purging with co2, the yeasties will consume and built up the pressure for you . As you said start with 0 and let the pressure build. I also like it as I can see when the ferment has kicked off easier by just checking the pressure gauge.


----------



## fdsaasdf

Has anyone found an inexpensive and reliable spunding valve setup that is accurate operating at less than 5psi? Say (for example) I wanted to ferment under a small amount of pressure in a non-pressure-rated vessel such as an SS brew bucket - does anyone have any experience with this?


----------



## Mardoo

Mr Wibble said:


> So with the KK spundie, I could pressurise an empty keg, then attach the valve, and twiddle the knob until it slowly (over say an hour) drops back to where I want it ?
> …
> 
> If you can't hear it hissing, does that mean no gas is escaping?


 First bit, yes, as you say. It doesn't really take an hour. With the KK valve I was winding it back to where I couldn't hear the hissing, then getting it to where it's just releasing the tiniest bit, and waiting a minute or so for it to stop. Or you can just tap the valve and if usually stops. It's not precision, but is somewhat functional. 

And no, I myself do not entirely believe there's no gas coming out just because I can't hear it hissing. Too many punk rock gigs through my ears to trust my hearing to that degree anyway.


----------



## malt junkie

If pressure fermenting continues it's rise in popularity it may just get it's own sub forum. All good info Mardoo.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Just lashed out for some on Amazon. Can hardly wait to get them. Better start chopping up my 50L keg in preparation.


----------



## Crusty

Dae Tripper said:


> Just lashed out for some on Amazon. Can hardly wait to get them. Better start chopping up my 50L keg in preparation.


Why you choppin up ya keg for?
Ive just got mine hooked up to my keg coupler minus the little one way check valve on the gas in side.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Crusty said:


> Why you choppin up ya keg for?
> Ive just got mine hooked up to my keg coupler minus the little one way check valve on the gas in side.


This one is pretty munted. It is the one that looks like an A type but isn't so I am going to put a corny top on it


----------



## wynnum1

fdsaasdf said:


> Has anyone found an inexpensive and reliable spunding valve setup that is accurate operating at less than 5psi? Say (for example) I wanted to ferment under a small amount of pressure in a non-pressure-rated vessel such as an SS brew bucket - does anyone have any experience with this?


When you go under water the pressure increases how deep do you need to go to get 5 psi if you made a column filled with water and put the outlet tube at the bottom it would be under a constant pressure .


----------



## Mardoo

Great idea!


----------



## malt junkie

1m = 10kpa... luck with that


----------



## wynnum1

So is that plus atmospheric pressure and its measured with atmospheric pressure as zero on the pressure meter


----------



## pcqypcqy

wynnum1 said:


> So is that plus atmospheric pressure and its measured with atmospheric pressure as zero on the pressure meter


No, the keg with nothing on it has atmostpheric pressure pushing on the outside of it (and the inside). So all you're measuring is the additional pressure over that (often called gauge pressure).

3.4 metres to get 5 psi, so maybe not practical.

On the other hand, if you used mercury, it would be liquid at room temperature and you'd only need 258mm of it!  (link)


----------



## malt junkie

Interestingly the pressure would directly relate to the Gravity of the liquid.


----------



## klangers

Yes, static pressure is height (m) x density (kg/m3) x acceleration due to gravity (m/s2) = Pa (N/m2)


----------



## Hpal

Dae Tripper said:


> This one is pretty munted. It is the one that looks like an A type but isn't so I am going to put a corny top on it


at least you can get your arm in to clean then, it's the way to go.


----------



## peteru

klangers said:


> Yes, static pressure is height (m) x density (kg/m3) x acceleration due to gravity (m/s2) = Pa (N/m2)


Taking that info down the practical path, you could use a piston with a weight on it. Hydraulics, here we come! :super:


----------



## wynnum1

pcqypcqy said:


> No, the keg with nothing on it has atmostpheric pressure pushing on the outside of it (and the inside). So all you're measuring is the additional pressure over that (often called gauge pressure).
> 
> 3.4 metres to get 5 psi, so maybe not practical.
> 
> On the other hand, if you used mercury, it would be liquid at room temperature and you'd only need 258mm of it!  (link)


Pvc pipes come in 6 meter lengths so 3.4 meters is not a problem .


----------



## pcqypcqy

wynnum1 said:


> Pvc pipes come in 6 meter lengths so 3.4 meters is not a problem .


Pics or it didn't happen 

I'd be keen to see how it goes. You doing this outdoors? Tall shed?


----------



## klangers

peteru said:


> Taking that info down the practical path, you could use a piston with a weight on it. Hydraulics, here we come! :super:


Indeed, this is how a lot of hydraulic accumulators were designed prior to 1950s.

Honestly though, it's a shitload easier and cheaper buying a good spunding valve than trying to rig up some hydraulic rig to apply backpressure to your keg. The CO2 needs to be exhausted, so if you were going down a hydraulic accumulator route, you'd need to have enough volume in that water column to take up the exhausted CO2. In addition, it would need to be a closed system (not open to atmosphere). If it's open at the end, CO2 would just bubble up through the water and/or push out the water. If it's closed, then the volume would need to expand. So in order to do this with a water column, you'd have to have a flexible membrane between the keg CO2 and water column. Then the CO2 emerges and pushes against the static water pressure without mixing with it.

You'd be better off connecting your full keg gas to an empty keg. Then the CO2 will gradually fill the empty keg and headspace in full keg and increase the pressure in both. It's possible to calculate this extra volume you need.


----------



## Mardoo

klangers said:


> Indeed, this is how a lot of hydraulic accumulators were designed prior to 1950s.


Steampunk pressurised fermenting!


----------



## mtb

Mardoo said:


> Steampunk pressurised fermenting!


Maybe "Steam Ale" will finally have a basis on which to define itself as an actual style


----------



## rude

rude said:


> Looks good Crusty so I've got myself an address in the States through shop mate cheers
> 
> Carted a valve , gauge , tee piece all 1/4 npt just need 1/4" npt male to the thread size of gas disconnect female ????
> 
> 7/16 usf or usn ???


Shop Mate worked but ended up with 2 parcels instead of 1, blew that

Had to pay 2 lots of postage as Shop Mate dont repack

Expensive valve this one just hope its better than the KK one if not I lose


----------



## pcqypcqy

klangers said:


> Indeed, this is how a lot of hydraulic accumulators were designed prior to 1950s.
> 
> Honestly though, it's a shitload easier and cheaper buying a good spunding valve than trying to rig up some hydraulic rig to apply backpressure to your keg. The CO2 needs to be exhausted, so if you were going down a hydraulic accumulator route, you'd need to have enough volume in that water column to take up the exhausted CO2. In addition, it would need to be a closed system (not open to atmosphere). If it's open at the end, CO2 would just bubble up through the water and/or push out the water. If it's closed, then the volume would need to expand. So in order to do this with a water column, you'd have to have a flexible membrane between the keg CO2 and water column. Then the CO2 emerges and pushes against the static water pressure without mixing with it.
> 
> You'd be better off connecting your full keg gas to an empty keg. Then the CO2 will gradually fill the empty keg and headspace in full keg and increase the pressure in both. It's possible to calculate this extra volume you need.


I don't know that it's quite the same as an accumulator.

If you had a column of water that was open to the atmosphere, this should provide a constant back pressure on your system. Gas above this pressure would escape into the water and bubble away.


----------



## klangers

pcqypcqy said:


> I don't know that it's quite the same as an accumulator.
> 
> If you had a column of water that was open to the atmosphere, this should provide a constant back pressure on your system. Gas above this pressure would escape into the water and bubble away.


... but it won't. If the keg was just liquid, then yes it would work. But CO2 is less dense that the water, so all that will happen is either:

You put the column of water entering the bottom of the keg (dip tube). All the CO2 floats to top of the keg. Unless you have the perfect amount of sugar, the excess CO2 will build up and displace the water in the column by pushing beer out of the keg up the column. Yes your pressure was constant but now your volume is less
You put the column of water entering the top of the keg (no dip tube). All the CO2 (less dense than liquid water) bubbles up and you have flat beer. J
You need to *exhaust* the right amount of CO2. It's not just about static pressure.


----------



## Mardoo

OK, I had mentioned I would post some papers I had saved. Turns out they were on my old computer that died and didn't make it across to the backup in time.

However, I've hunted down a few papers on the topic of pressurised fermenting, which I'm currently going through.

The TLR is that as long as you keep pressure below 20PSI/138kPa, it's been shown in laboratory and actual practice that you will see significant suppression of esters, and be able to ferment at higher temperatures before fusel alcohol production kicks in. This is due to the higher volume of CO2 that is allowed to remain in solution at higher pressures. Yeast growth is inhibited to some degree, but it is said to be likely that it is the cap on yeast growth that allows the suppression of esters and fusels. Many, many major breweries use pressurised fermentation of lagers, so it can't be that much of an issue with the yeast.

There is likely some reduction in head formation for beers fermented at higher pressures. I'm trying to chase up a paper on that specific topic, but have yet to track one down that's not behind a paywall. Here's one interesting thing that's referenced. For a given volume of wort, no matter what the gravity of that wort, the amount of head-forming proteins will be exactly the same. 20L of 15P wort will have exactly the same amount of head-forming proteins as 20L of 25P wort. Weird. So, if you brew high-gravity and dilute back to get increased volume, you're likely to see a reduction in head formed.

I'm including a very interesting paper on high-gravity brewing, since some folks in this and the pressurised fermenting thread have mentioned brewing high to dilute low.

So, here are the papers. I haven't yet finished going through them so there may be more of interest that one of youse wants to point out, as well as any shortcomings in my descriptions.

And...GOOGLE SCHOLAR ROCKS!!! If you're into searching out actual research, get on it.

View attachment Improving Yeast Fermentation Performance.pdf

View attachment CO2 Pressure and Ester and Fusel Formation.pdf

View attachment Yeast Response to Fermentation Under Pressure.pdf

View attachment Controlling Yeast Fermentation.pdf


----------



## pcqypcqy

klangers said:


> ... but it won't. If the keg was just liquid, then yes it would work. But CO2 is less dense that the water, so all that will happen is either:
> 
> You put the column of water entering the bottom of the keg (dip tube). All the CO2 floats to top of the keg. Unless you have the perfect amount of sugar, the excess CO2 will build up and displace the water in the column by pushing beer out of the keg up the column. Yes your pressure was constant but now your volume is less
> You put the column of water entering the top of the keg (no dip tube). All the CO2 (less dense than liquid water) bubbles up and you have flat beer. J
> You need to *exhaust* the right amount of CO2. It's not just about static pressure.


OK, I think I'm with you now. 

I think in my mind I'm picturing a system where instead of the elastic compression held in the spring to apply back pressure to the valve, it's a column of water. If you could run it through a one way valve that only opens when the C02 pressure is greater than the water pressure, then you'd have the same effect.

If you have this one way valve, then it does become a matter of just maintaining the static pressure inside the fermenter, which is obviously much simpler than designing an accumulator.


----------



## wynnum1

At major breweries is there a limit on the depth of tanks to limit pressure at the bottom of the tank.


----------



## peteru

Yes. Lagering tanks are usually up to about 5m in diameter. They are often configured in stacks and are typically long cylinders lying on their side. I'm not sure if it's specifically to limit the pressure or whether it's done to address any particular yeast requirements. It could just be simple manufacturing constraints or material constraints. I've been to a number of breweries where the lagering tanks are built first, then the building that houses them is built around them - they can get massive.


----------



## technobabble66

For the water pipe setup, could you get your 3.5m pvc pipe full of water and run your 4mm venting hose from the keg to the top of the pipe, then down the inside of the pipe to the base where it's left open. 
So as the co2 builds up in the keg, it gradually pushes down the water in the hose until it gets to the bottom, then bubbles up and away. 
This way, there's likely to be little relative absorption of the co2 into the water, as its only exposed to a tiny amount of water in the 4mm hose. The upwards pressure of the water in the hose provides the resistance, and the water won't flow back into the hose past the top water lever in the pipe. 
You still need 3.5m of pipe and ~8-10m of 4mm hose, but I think it'd work sufficiently. Or have I missed something?

Obviously you'd need to attach the end of the hose to the bottom of the pipe somehow or find some way to hold it down. And maybe put a one way valve in the hose just to ensure mr cockup doesn't visit.


----------



## malt junkie

Water 3.5m high with a hose it.... unless your fermenter is higher, or the water doesn't reach the highest point of the hose, it sounds very close to a syphon.


----------



## technobabble66

True, but only if the water in the hose goes over the height of the pipe. [emoji6]
So just fill your pipe to a few inches below the top and the water shouldn't get high enough. 
Personally I'd also install the one way valve I mentioned just to be sure.


----------



## pcqypcqy

technobabble66 said:


> For the water pipe setup, could you get your 3.5m pvc pipe full of water and run your 4mm venting hose from the keg to the top of the pipe, then down the inside of the pipe to the base where it's left open.
> So as the co2 builds up in the keg, it gradually pushes down the water in the hose until it gets to the bottom, then bubbles up and away.
> This way, there's likely to be little relative absorption of the co2 into the water, as its only exposed to a tiny amount of water in the 4mm hose. The upwards pressure of the water in the hose provides the resistance, and the water won't flow back into the hose past the top water lever in the pipe.
> You still need 3.5m of pipe and ~8-10m of 4mm hose, but I think it'd work sufficiently. Or have I missed something?
> 
> Obviously you'd need to attach the end of the hose to the bottom of the pipe somehow or find some way to hold it down. And maybe put a one way valve in the hose just to ensure mr cockup doesn't visit.



I can't see why not. As Malt Junkie pointed out, the siphon is a concern. I take your point about the water level but you might also get a change in relative pressure that could suck it in. So long as you always had pressure above atmospheric in your fermenter, plus a little safety margin, then you should be OK. I would have thought that normal pressure fermenting ranges would give you the required positive pressure to prevent this.


----------



## Crusty

You could do all that experimenting shit & hope for the best or you could just simply buy one.
They're not that expensive.


----------



## klangers

Crusty said:


> You could do all that experimenting shit & hope for the best or you could just simply buy one.
> They're not that expensive.


Precisely my point. A quality spunding valve will give you the best result and be cheaper than the parts required for a working water column.


----------



## malt junkie

I do like the arduino solution(posted earlierin this thread) and when I eventually upgrade to pressure fermenting I probably implement it with loging to brewpiless.(need to work on my coding skills first).


----------



## peteru

No medium ground, huh?  ;-) It's either a ghetto pipework setup or a complex electromechanical solution with custom firmware.

I'd be interested in finding out about a (preferably local and reasonably priced) supplier of a good quality spunding valve + gauge setup. From what I'm reading, the KK one is not worth getting because it's fiddly and unreliable. I'm not that keen on buying a variety of bits and pieces of Amazon, having it forwarded from USA and then hoping it will all fit together and work properly.


----------



## bradsbrew

peteru said:


> No medium ground, huh?  ;-) It's either a ghetto pipework setup or a complex electromechanical solution with custom firmware.
> 
> I'd be interested in finding out about a (preferably local and reasonably priced) supplier of a good quality spunding valve + gauge setup. From what I'm reading, the KK one is not worth getting because it's fiddly and unreliable. I'm not that keen on buying a variety of bits and pieces of Amazon, having it forwarded from USA and then hoping it will all fit together and work properly.


I have a KK one and it is working fine. It sits on my required pressure for the ferment. Screwing the end off and using lube prior to setting is an important step though.


----------



## Mardoo

Goes to say, always lube your valve before you spund.


----------



## rude

rude said:


> Shop Mate worked but ended up with 2 parcels instead of 1, blew that
> 
> Had to pay 2 lots of postage as Shop Mate dont repack
> 
> Expensive valve this one just hope its better than the KK one if not I lose



Finally got to brew with the new valve & I'm impressed really nice adjustment
Fermented an APA with Nottingham at 5 psi
3rd day upped the pressure to get 30 psi went a touch over so backed off sitting on 27 psi now
Have been taking samples with short beer line & picnic tap will have to lengthen the line to stop foaming
Got impatient with gas in the sample drank it instead but its about nearly done
Thats my first beer for dry July & I can tell you wont be doing that again


----------



## cliffo

Looks the goods.

Have you got details of all the required parts so a tool tard like me can put a couple of these together?

Cheers,
cliffo


----------



## koolkuna

Mardoo I have a KK valve as well What lube do you use? Also which parts of the valve do you lube ? The thread or the rubber seal or the whole thing?


----------



## Grott

Grott said:


> Out of interest I got the KK unit to work fairly well. I removed the adjuster, spring and gas seal stopper and keg lubed the inside thread of the unit, ends of the spring and the thread on the adjuster which made adjusting very smooth.
> To set the unit, say I want 10psi. Put co2 at 13/14 psi into a PET bottle using a carbonation cap, connect the unit in closed position then slowly open until hiss heard, back off a bit and your close to spot on, which the gauge will indicate.


----------



## rude

cliffo said:


> Looks the goods.
> 
> Have you got details of all the required parts so a tool tard like me can put a couple of these together?
> 
> Cheers,
> cliffo


Will try & look it up for you


----------



## rude

*Control Devices CR Series Brass Pressure Relief Valve, 0-100 psi Adjustable Pressure Range, 1/4" Male NPT*
*You just need a gauge Tee piece & a gas disconnect*
*They dont ship to Aust so you need to go through shop mate*


----------



## rude

Not very specific sorry as all the paper work is gone


----------



## cliffo

rude said:


> Not very specific sorry


No worries, should be able to work it out form that. Cheers.


----------



## cliffo

Actually, if you go to the valve on Amazon, at the bottom is shows a list of items "Frequently bought together" - looks like all the required parts listed except the gas disconnect.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

A bit off topic, but amazon have announced an Australian distribution centre in Melbourne. Some reports are that it may be ready before Christmas.


----------



## homebrewnewb

Dandy is the hot tip. Plenty of jobs going.


----------



## cliffo

So, if you happen to get the krausen from a beer blow up through your spunding valve...is it a lost cause or can it be saved by pulling it apart and giving it a good clean?

Was looking to build my own in any case as I haven't been overly impressed with the pre-built ones I bought.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

cliffo said:


> So, if you happen to get the krausen from a beer blow up through your spunding valve...is it a lost cause or can it be saved by pulling it apart and giving it a good clean?


Done it quite a few times now. The only worry is beer getting into the gauge. Mine are fine and its easy enough to clean the brass parts.
Its ~$8 to replace the gauge at worst but as long as they are upward when you get blow through then I don't think any beer gets in.
Mine are the KK version and copped a lot of blow through, cleaned etc but work perfectly fine.


----------



## cliffo

Ok, might have a go at taking it apart and giving it a clean in the first instance.


----------



## BrockHops

rude said:


> View attachment 107352
> View attachment 107353
> 
> 
> Finally got to brew with the new valve & I'm impressed really nice adjustment
> Fermented an APA with Nottingham at 5 psi
> 3rd day upped the pressure to get 30 psi went a touch over so backed off sitting on 27 psi now
> Have been taking samples with short beer line & picnic tap will have to lengthen the line to stop foaming
> Got impatient with gas in the sample drank it instead but its about nearly done
> Thats my first beer for dry July & I can tell you wont be doing that again


Hey @rude ,
Off topic, but is that an ex brewery keg that you're using? If so what did you do to get the fitting on top?
Cheers Brock


----------



## pcqypcqy

cliffo said:


> So, if you happen to get the krausen from a beer blow up through your spunding valve...is it a lost cause or can it be saved by pulling it apart and giving it a good clean?
> 
> Was looking to build my own in any case as I haven't been overly impressed with the pre-built ones I bought.



Yeah, just give it a clean and sanitise. I do this routinely now for each new brew because these valve aren't necessarily sanitary.


----------



## rude

BrockHops said:


> Hey @rude ,
> Off topic, but is that an ex brewery keg that you're using? If so what did you do to get the fitting on top?
> Cheers Brock


Got it cut out & bought gear from china & local hbs took it to a welder food grade job
Not cheap but now I have it easy to put arm in to clean
Also got a bit of tube welded for thermowell
Lovin the pressure fermenter need another one


----------



## rossbaker

rude said:


> Got it cut out & bought gear from china & local hbs took it to a welder food grade job
> Not cheap but now I have it easy to put arm in to clean
> Also got a bit of tube welded for thermowell
> Lovin the pressure fermenter need another one



Looks great rude. If you don't mind me asking, how does the cost compare to the keg King job ($289)?


----------



## rude

Initially was only $300 but wasn't a good job had to take it to 
someone else to get the inside ferrule polished properly so it was food grade
$400 by the end


----------



## pcqypcqy

rude said:


> Initially was only $300 but wasn't a good job had to take it to
> someone else to get the inside ferrule polished properly so it was food grade
> $400 by the end



That's not bad at all, considering. I would like my KK kegmenter to just be an inch or two wider to get my huge guns in there to give it a spot wipe on the more stubborn areas.


----------



## cliffo

Testing the new spunding valve. Liking this much better than the pre-built ones I bought.


----------



## mtb

cliffo said:


> Testing the new spunding valve. Liking this much better than the pre-built ones I bought.
> 
> View attachment 108885


Looks nice, any chance you can post up a parts list? Including supplier links maybe? I'll pay you in compliments.


----------



## pcqypcqy

mtb said:


> Looks nice, any chance you can post up a parts list? Including supplier links maybe? I'll pay you in compliments.



And exposure.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Looks good. I wouldn't mind trying my hand at building one at some stage, so parts list would be great if available.

I definitely want a higher range gauge like the one you've shown there. I'm pissing in the wind a bit when I let it get up to the area between the two screws on the KK one. I'm guessing this is about 20 psi. Seems to get me down to 10 or 12 when I cold crash so works OK, but I'd like to know for sure.

I would also like to run it using a barbed disconnect and mount both the gauge and the pressure adjustment into the collar of my ferment keezer. This was I can check and adjust from the outside without having to open it all the time.


----------



## Yuz

mtb said:


> Looks nice, any chance you can post up a parts list? Including supplier links maybe? I'll pay you in compliments.


That CR25-100 Adjustable PRV sells for $12 odd bucks (US) but to send it here it's like $30+ and no local suppliers have it.
Would much rather DIY this device than pay $30 odd for Chinese miracles.
Bulk Buy for the valves?


----------



## mtb

Yuz said:


> That CR25-100 Adjustable PRV sells for $12 odd bucks (US) but to send it here it's like $30+ and no local suppliers have it.
> Would much rather DIY this device than pay $30 odd for Chinese miracles.
> Bulk Buy for the valves?


I'd go for 4 valves for sure.


----------



## 5150

I'd also be in for 2 if it would go ahead.


----------



## Yuz

I'll grab two if this goes ahead.


----------



## mtb

$11.73USD each from these guys and free shipping for orders over $50..
https://m.ebay.com/itm/CDI-CONTROL-DEVICES-CR25-100-Valve-Pressure-Relief-/332101497795?_mwBanner=1

ed: let me clarify that.. the mobile app said free shipping but now I can't find it.
ed:ed: yeah, only free shipping within the US for orders over $50. If anyone has that Auspost mail forwarding thing we could have it forwarded from a US address?


----------



## pcqypcqy

I'd go a few as well.


----------



## mtb

I messaged the seller "zorotools" asking about shipping to Aus, and dimensions of a parcel carrying 20 - 30 of these. I can use those dimensions to get an estimate from ReShip.com to redirect the parcel to us from the US. Might be cheap enough to go ahead with


----------



## cliffo

Most parts sourced from Amazon but the flare fitting came from Brew Hardware.

Pressure Relief Valve - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Tee Piece - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LSSLE0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Gauge - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CU5VMNM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Flare fitting - https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ffltomnpt.htm?Click=6524

All ship to Aus so no need for a shipping forwarder.


----------



## mtb

Oh good. Thanks cliffo


----------



## mtb

..the first link to Amazon states that they don't ship to Aus?


----------



## cliffo

Definitely did for me, here's the sellers storefront - https://www.amazon.com/s?marketplac...Y4CKXD9&merchant=A1X5FIKY4CKXD9&redirect=true

Try that.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

I just tried to purchase it and it came with any error 'item does not ship to Australia'

If someone has a australian forwarding service I would like at least the valve if possible all 3 items. 

Cheers


----------



## mtb

It's costly even buying in bulk, comparing to the iBrew valve for example.


----------



## Mardoo

I have two of the valves. They’re great. I’d go two more.


----------



## Dae Tripper

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> I just tried to purchase it and it came with any error 'item does not ship to Australia'
> 
> If someone has a australian forwarding service I would like at least the valve if possible all 3 items.
> 
> Cheers



Australia Post does one, that's how I got mine


----------



## Yuz

mtb said:


> It's costly even buying in bulk, comparing to the iBrew valve for example.


OT / Looks like iBrew uses similar components to the KegKing's offering? Which is also the same price.


----------



## mtb

Yuz said:


> OT / Looks like iBrew uses similar components to the KegKing's offering? Which is also the same price.


Yeah they're very similar to KK's. I think what we're aiming for here is a higher quality adjustment knob since the standard from KK and iBrew has a fairly flimsy one


----------



## Yuz

mtb said:


> Yeah they're very similar to KK's. I think what we're aiming for here is a higher quality adjustment knob since the standard from KK and iBrew has a fairly flimsy one


Correct. Puzzles me as to why neither of those could fit (or offer as an upgrade) a better valve. 
In real terms, $10 would get you that option. But as always, mark ups and margins win.


----------



## Gloveski

First play with the Ibrew spunding valves today one worked like a dream testing the other failed until I realised I had to much lube on the poppet valve looking piece , soon as a cleaned this down was ok . Lube the spring not the poppet . Find out if there working in the morning


----------



## nosco

Id be pretty keen for a DIY build. The one I got off ebay wich looks to be a KK one has never worked.


----------



## cliffo

Guys, with the valve I linked to above, if you click the direct link I posted it will say it doesn't ship to Aus but if you click the storefront link and then click on the picture of the valve it magically says it does ship to Aus.

Here's the storefront link again - https://www.amazon.com/s?marketplac...Y4CKXD9&merchant=A1X5FIKY4CKXD9&redirect=true

No idea why it does that but this way works.


----------



## nosco

Dam that works out to be pretty pricey.

Edit: I could maybe get an extra PRV to put on my KK one and get 2 for not much more.


----------



## rude

Hey Nosco any chance of changing that avatar of youres ???


----------



## mtb

rude said:


> Hey Nosco any chance of changing that avatar of youres ???


Offends me less than your grammar mate [emoji8]


----------



## nosco

rude said:


> Hey Nosco any chance of changing that avatar of youres ???



Happy to change it if it offends except im not sure if you are serious or not. It took me a long time to settle on a new look avitar . The BobLog III one was getting old.


----------



## rude

If you like no probs


----------



## nosco

Getting ot but whats wrong with it?

Edit : for a bit of context 

https://www.boredpanda.com/bergedor...men-maternity-brewed-with-love-jung-von-matt/


----------



## Mardoo

I think it’s awesome. Keep it.


----------



## Yuz

Yeah keep it man, don't see what the issue is?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Maybe he is pregnant?


----------



## Grott

Seen Alien?


----------



## Grott

Or perhaps a human spunding valve where the gas hasn’t been released yet. Won’t say what part connects to the gas post.


----------



## nosco

Does methane affect hop aroma?


----------



## Mardoo

No, it’s a new point on the aroma wheel.


----------



## Gloveski

Well first impressions of the spunding valves is a bit dissapointing . One works like a charm but the other one with no end of fidling trying to set it right its an epic fail .May have to look at the more reliable US option


----------



## pcqypcqy

I agree with the advice above to lube the spring at the BACK of the poppet, not the front of the poppet. 

To me it feels like friction on this interface is what's causing the inconsistent adjusment. Getting too much lube in there can cause it to stick, which happened to me last brew.

Also, my adjustment screw wobbles a little in the thread, which also causes issues for me. A little thread tape seems to solve this issue, but it's a pain in the arse to have to do every time.


----------



## rude

mtb said:


> Offends me less than your grammar mate [emoji8]


Fair enough I deserved that sorry Nosco keep ya Avatar
It just 
No I'll drop it 
I have been knocking out a couple of nice Kolsch's with the pressure ferment lately
Maybe drinking too many & posting as well 
I am only using the spunding valve from Amozon but havent tried lubing the K&K one
Since pressure fermenting I havent done a ferment in the plastic fermenter since
& the turnaround is a lot quicker 
It is one of the more profound improvements to my beers as big as temp control for me


----------



## Gloveski

pcqypcqy said:


> I agree with the advice above to lube the spring at the BACK of the poppet, not the front of the poppet.
> 
> To me it feels like friction on this interface is what's causing the inconsistent adjusment. Getting too much lube in there can cause it to stick, which happened to me last brew.
> 
> Also, my adjustment screw wobbles a little in the thread, which also causes issues for me. A little thread tape seems to solve this issue, but it's a pain in the arse to have to do every time.


e


pcqypcqy said:


> I agree with the advice above to lube the spring at the BACK of the poppet, not the front of the poppet.
> 
> To me it feels like friction on this interface is what's causing the inconsistent adjusment. Getting too much lube in there can cause it to stick, which happened to me last brew.
> 
> Also, my adjustment screw wobbles a little in the thread, which also causes issues for me. A little thread tape seems to solve this issue, but it's a pain in the arse to have to do every time.




yeah my one that plays up the screw wobbles also didnt think to try some thread tape on that. Good idea . Got it sitting nicely at 11 psi atm more by fluke I think


----------



## pirateagenda

I don't have any issues with mine. used thread tape on it and set it to the right pressure by hooking it up with gas before using it.


----------



## Grott

Grott said:


> Out of interest I got the KK unit to work fairly well. I removed the adjuster, spring and gas seal stopper and keg lubed the inside thread of the unit, ends of the spring and the thread on the adjuster which made adjusting very smooth.
> To set the unit, say I want 10psi. Put co2 at 13/14 psi into a PET bottle using a carbonation cap, connect the unit in closed position then slowly open until hiss heard, back off a bit and your close to spot on, which the gauge will indicate.


----------



## Coldspace

Yep, I find it's easier with the kk spundings to after O2 and yeast pitch/seal up, I pressure up to 15 psi and and click on spunding and wind out very slowly with my ear right next to the outlet hears a slight hiss and then leave. It seems to settle in at 10-13 psi which is perfect.

The carb cap and pet bottle trick sounds great , will try that next brews.

I also opened up the spunding and gave the spring/poppet a slight spray with olive oil cooking spray, it seems to be lighter than oring lube and more sensitive and I had it in the kitchen. Plus protects the spring from corrosion.

Cheers


----------



## nosco

Ive only tried to use mine twice but Ive just figured out theres a crack in the brass T peice. No wonder it wasnt working.


----------



## pcqypcqy

pirateagenda said:


> I don't have any issues with mine. used thread tape on it and set it to the right pressure by hooking it up with gas before using it.



Quite a few have said they're OK, and quite a few have said they're rubbish. 

I think the point here is that these units are highly variable in quality. Depending on machining tolerances, the wobble within the thread/housing will be better/worse in some rather than others.

I'm in the rubbish camp, mostly because of the wobble. I've tried the PET trick to set the gauge, and it's still variable as all hell as soon as you bump it.


----------



## cliffo

Pitched the yeast around 4pm yesterday and the pressure is building nicely already. I'm already liking this setup a lot better than the pre-built ones.


----------



## Crusty

I’m about to pitch yeast on a 45l batch of Lager & hooking up the Spunding valve for the first time set to 12psi. My usual fermenting procedure is using a Sanke fermenting kit from Brewers Hardware with an airlock attached to the blow off port. I’m sticking with my usual ferment, diacetyl rest followed by cold crashing & lagering . The only concern I have after fermentation is the transfer to a 50l serving keg. Normally I would transfer via the fermenting kit using around 5-10psi. I’m a little worried about how much foam I might get from the pressure ferment to the unpressurized receiving keg.


----------



## malt junkie

Crusty, pressure transfer it, place ferment keg on a bench, receiving keg on the floor, co2 both to the same pressure, connect liquid to liquid, gas to gas, pull PRV on receiving before connecting to it's gas post, once flow has started connect attach the gas. Beer remains under pressure and shouldn't foam.


----------



## Crusty

Cheers but I don’t have any way of pressure transfer to the second keg, both 50l. I’d have to get another keg coupler to do that.


----------



## Crusty

Anyone serve from the fermenting keg? Surely after a couple of pints their should be no issues with yeast trub in your glass after that. I’m not keen on getting a little yeast in my beers every session though.


----------



## cliffo

I transfer from the kegmenter to a corny.

I've attached a Fermentasaurus float from Keg King in place of the dip tube so it draws from the top.

Might be something you could use so you'd be getting the clearest pour.


----------



## pcqypcqy

I guess you could fill the second keg like a big growler, then purge it with co2. Not the best method though. Same rules would apply for minimising foam, chill everything first, transfer slowly, etc.

You might go ok serving off the kegmenter though. When chilled the yeast cake tends to set fairly hard, so You mightn't yeasty beers all the time.


----------



## rossbaker

Crusty said:


> Anyone serve from the fermenting keg? Surely after a couple of pints their should be no issues with yeast trub in your glass after that. I’m not keen on getting a little yeast in my beers every session though.


I've done this with a weisse and it worked well, but yeast was no issue. I'm keen to try it with an ale.


----------



## Coldspace

Crusty said:


> Anyone serve from the fermenting keg? Surely after a couple of pints their should be no issues with yeast trub in your glass after that. I’m not keen on getting a little yeast in my beers every session though.



For sure, but long term sitting on the cake will cause some issues I recon.

I use 50 ltr kegmenters, and after ferment, carb up , I pressure inject biofine through the gas post and rock alittle and cold crash . My beers are clean and clear out of the kegmenter 4 days later and get real good about 1 week onwards. 
My dip tube is shortened 20 mm so not to grab too much crap from the bottom. First glass or 2 do suck up abit of yeast but still good. 1 week onwards it's great.
I generally consume my beers out of the kegmenters when busy with work etc for upto 3 - 4 weeks till I have time to pressure transfer into my cornies and mini kegs for longer term storage and using in my keezer.


----------



## Crusty

Maybe I should just fork out the coin for a Fermentasaurus.
Eagerly awaiting some activity on the spundy pressure valve. Aerated with o2 this morning about 8am so hopefully by the same time tomorrow morning the needle will be off 0 & making it's way to the set 12psi.


----------



## Digga

I'd be more inclined to fork for another keg coupler. What sort of coupler do you need it could send you a D type of you have those kegs


----------



## Crusty

Digga said:


> I'd be more inclined to fork for another keg coupler. What sort of coupler do you need it could send you a D type of you have those kegs



I've got the A type kegs.
My Micromatic coupler has a pressure relief valve on it which makes degassing very handy.
I appreciate the offer though, cheers.


----------



## Crusty

Around 8am this morning & pressure was heading to my 12psi set point. Had to play around with it a little before settling where I wanted it. The adjustment is pretty touchy but spot on once it’s set right.


----------



## Crusty

I'm after a little guidance from any of you guys that have a few pressure fermented Lagers under your belt. I'm currently fermenting at 12deg & have the spundy set to 12psi. According to my vol/Co2 chart, this is around 2.15vol/Co2. I am approaching a diacetyl rest & upping the temp to 18deg for that. According to my Co2 chart, if I set the spundy to 28psi at this time, I will end up with 2.46vol/Co2 which is around where I want to be. The question I have is how long to leave the temp at 18deg? I will then remove the valve, leaving the 28psi in there & drop the temp to 1deg for a 7 day cold crash. Remove & transfer under pressure to a receiving keg.
Cheers


----------



## Lionman

I have done one lager and it tastes and smells like DMS (creamed corn). Not sure if this is related to my hot side process (to short a boil?), or cold side (pressure?) but its not particularly pleasant. I have tried CO2 scrubbing which helped a little.

Recipe was

5KG Pils
1KG Munich
20g Eldorado FWH
20g Eldorado 5mins
S189

6%
33IBU

I mashed at 64c for 60mins, boiled for 60mins.

Fermented for 3 weeks at 15c @20PSI. Kegged and stored in fridge for 3 weeks.

Would a 90 min biol have stopped this? If you look paste the DMS flavour and aroma there is a tasty beer hiding in there.


----------



## mtb

Lionman said:


> I have done one lager and it tastes and smells like DMS (creamed corn). Not sure if this is related to my hot side process (to short a boil?), or cold side (pressure?) but its not particularly pleasant. I have tried CO2 scrubbing which helped a little.
> 
> Recipe was
> 
> 5KG Pils
> 1KG Munich
> 20g Eldorado FWH
> 20g Eldorado 5mins
> S189
> 
> 6%
> 33IBU
> 
> I mashed at 64c for 60mins, boiled for 60mins.
> 
> Fermented for 3 weeks at 15c @20PSI. Kegged and stored in fridge for 3 weeks.
> 
> Would a 90 min biol have stopped this? If you look paste the DMS flavour and aroma there is a tasty beer hiding in there.


I'd definitely try a 90min boil as your first step.


----------



## Gloveski

Crusty said:


> I'm after a little guidance from any of you guys that have a few pressure fermented Lagers under your belt. I'm currently fermenting at 12deg & have the spundy set to 12psi. According to my vol/Co2 chart, this is around 2.15vol/Co2. I am approaching a diacetyl rest & upping the temp to 18deg for that. According to my Co2 chart, if I set the spundy to 28psi at this time, I will end up with 2.46vol/Co2 which is around where I want to be. The question I have is how long to leave the temp at 18deg? I will then remove the valve, leaving the 28psi in there & drop the temp to 1deg for a 7 day cold crash. Remove & transfer under pressure to a receiving keg.
> Cheers



I left mine for 2 days . But I'm gradually lowering temp to let clean up on the way down . More the fact I'm away for work and I am getting the wife to adjust for me . Following roughly @labels technique for lagers


----------



## Lionman

mtb said:


> I'd definitely try a 90min boil as your first step.



Cheers, this is what I was thinking/hoping

I was concerned it might be the slightly elevated temps but that would more likely lead to esters (fruity) than DMS (Vegetably). I am 95% sure its the latter. I was hoping the pressure would help reduce ester production.

So with a longer boil, do people add water back to the wort post boil? If I boil for 90misn I don't think I'll hit my volumes.


----------



## mtb

Lionman said:


> Cheers, this is what I was thinking/hoping
> 
> I was concerned it might be the slightly elevated temps but that would more likely lead to esters (fruity) than DMS (Vegetably). I am 95% sure its the latter. I was hoping the pressure would help reduce ester production.
> 
> So with a longer boil, do people add water back to the wort post boil? If I boil for 90misn I don't think I'll hit my volumes.


I use Beersmith and it adjusts volumes automatically if I up the boil length, your tool may do the same


----------



## Lionman

mtb said:


> I use Beersmith and it adjusts volumes automatically if I up the boil length, your tool may do the same



It can but I'm limited buy what my kettle will hold and not boil over.


----------



## Coldspace

Crusty said:


> I'm after a little guidance from any of you guys that have a few pressure fermented Lagers under your belt. I'm currently fermenting at 12deg & have the spundy set to 12psi. According to my vol/Co2 chart, this is around 2.15vol/Co2. I am approaching a diacetyl rest & upping the temp to 18deg for that. According to my Co2 chart, if I set the spundy to 28psi at this time, I will end up with 2.46vol/Co2 which is around where I want to be. The question I have is how long to leave the temp at 18deg? I will then remove the valve, leaving the 28psi in there & drop the temp to 1deg for a 7 day cold crash. Remove & transfer under pressure to a receiving keg.
> Cheers


Hey mate,
Did a heap of lagers last summer, bleed off pressure set to approx 12 - 15 psi at 12 - 13 degrees primary lager ferment. Usually after 5 days of active ferment, I purge a small sample with my pluto gun into jug, degas and allow to warm to room temp, take grav reading and usually down to about 1015 or just unde, I then wack my spunding valve off, crank temp to 19 and allow it to creep up over a couple days to finish off as well as the pressure to rise , when at about 26 psi which I find is plenty of carb for my lagers , I bleed off using the relief valve to 23-24 psi and leave it rise up to 26 , do this once a day for next couple of days till it sits at 26 steady, usually about day 10 - 12 now, I then pressure inject finnings or now biofine, then cc straight down and leave for at least one week. Perfect lagers, I usually sample a schooner each night during the week as I can't help myself, and generally pressure transfer over 1 to 2 weeks later into cornies for my keezer.

Others prob have diff ways, but I've done lagers all last summer and this works great for me.

Cheers


----------



## Crusty

Exactly the type of info I'm after. I'm also looking at the d-rest when around 1.015 so that's when I'll be cranking up the temp & winding up the pressure on the spundy. At 18deg & 28psi, I should get around 2.5vol/Co2 which suits me just fine. I'll leave it at 28psi for a couple of days then cap the fermenter. Cold crash for 7 days then transfer to a serving keg.
One differential I can't seem to find an answer to is differing pressures everyone's using to primary ferment. Some set the pressure at 5psi, others 8 or 10, me 12 & some 15. I'm not sure what effects this will have on the finished beer but everyone seems to come to the same conclusion with a far superior beer than fermenting the traditional way. I'm really excited about the control you have over your carbonation & a naturally carbed beer is really nice with those tiny effervescent bubbles.
I'm approaching 10yrs of All Grain Brewing & you never stop learning in this hobby. There's always something new to try & something else to buy on our never ending quest for the perfect beer.
I might drop it back to 26psi as per coldspaces recommendation.


----------



## Stubbie

In order to get some 'bang for buck', my normal approach to brewing lagers is to throw a second batch onto the yeast cake. I'm reasonably sure it won't be an issue, but figure I may as well ask the question; does pressure fermenting adversely affect a lager yeast cake and the quality of a subsequent lager fermented thereon? 

Cheers


----------



## Mardoo

The research I've seen indicates that yeast health begins to decline up around 30 psi. I don't think you'd see a noticeable effect below that, and if you're only doing those pressures for the D rest, still don't think you'd see any noticeable effect.


----------



## Stubbie

Thanks Mardoo

Am certainly keen to try my hand at pressure fermenting and am in the process of acquiring the various bits and bobs, in no small thanks to the contributors of this thread. 

FWIW I have brewed 4 to 6 lagers per year over the past 10 years and by pitching at 7C and fermenting at 10C to 11C there's never been a need for a D rest. So I don't expect to start now. 



Mardoo said:


> The research I've seen indicates that yeast health begins to decline up around 30 psi. I don't think you'd see a noticeable effect below that, and if you're only doing those pressures for the D rest, still don't think you'd


----------



## Stubbie

Thanks Mardoo

I'm certainly keen to try my hand at pressure fermenting and am in the process of acquiring the various bits and bobs, in no small thanks to the contributors to this thread. 

I have always pitched my lagers at 7C and controlled a slow rise to 10C - 11C. Never had a need for a D rest and don't expect a need in the future.


----------



## pcqypcqy

It's a funny thing this pressure fermenting. It seems the benefits, particularly for lagers, can kick in as soon as you apply any pressure at all. As Crusty noted, the range of values people have used here is from 5 to 15psi for the primary ferment. Some people in my club even go higher pressure and temperature and turn it around in a week without any ill effects.

Given the fiddly adjustment of spunding valves, and double batch sizes, I haven't had a great deal of repeatability to be able to say for sure one way or the other.


----------



## Coldspace

I run 3 kegmenters and due to the slight inaccuracies of the keg king valves I am happy at any where between 10 and 15 psi, all though this can be at 15 psi first few days when real active ferments are going then drops down to 10 in the last couple of days before pressure rise.

This would be also due to the fact of a higher gas load pressure which then tappers off. A better quality valve would help me but ATM I've got it under control.

I have noticed no diff with side by side tests on same lagers in the 10 - 15 psi range with 20 or so batches done last summer.

Also, I did find with a 28 psi finish at 19 degrees, my beers wer too carbonated, I find 26 is max perfect for my lagers and 22-23 for ales and 19 for stouts irish reds.

I do what danscraftbeer does as well, I pitch and oxygen in the middle of the temp range for yeast, the slight increase inside the ferment would still keep my temps under the higher recommended end due to the fact I'm not running a thermowell and just keep the temp probe taped to side of the kegmenter under thick insulation.

I have found my lagers, ales all have been brilliant compared to my old stainless ambient pressure ferments.

The smaller natural carb bubbles allow the flavours of malts and hops to really shine through on the palet compared to the forced carb beers, even forced carb beers took weeks to settle the carbonic acid from the process where natural is so much better.

Plus it's a fun way of doing things. It was the missing link that brought my great beers up to , yep, that's better.

It's way easier to run slightly lower finishing pressure than u wish for , transfer and put onto taps, if still slightly less than desired you will find that after 24 hrs at pouring pressure all will be great.
Easier to add 5% more co2 than take out. I found at 28 psi beers were too foamy, but then again the keg king reg may be slightly inaccurate .
Few batches and you will have your system dialed in.

Reminds me, time for lager season...


----------



## Yuz

Just researching on the topic I came across this info (I'm sure most of you would be aware anyway, so this is noob material):






Further details here: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers#The_3_phases_of_a_lager_fermentation


----------



## Gloveski

Stubbie said:


> In order to get some 'bang for buck', my normal approach to brewing lagers is to throw a second batch onto the yeast cake. I'm reasonably sure it won't be an issue, but figure I may as well ask the question; does pressure fermenting adversely affect a lager yeast cake and the quality of a subsequent lager fermented thereon?
> 
> Cheers


I'm on my first batch lagering ATM but most have reported that the second batch on the yeast cake turned out better


----------



## Coldspace

Also highly recommend biofine, I've used it on past 4 batches and it easy, I mix 30 mls for 45 ltr batch into 200 mls of clean water , put into 1.25 ltr soft drink bottle pressure up with carb cap with hose on end, then click onto the kegmenter gas post and transfer in. Sometimes needs to be disconnected and extra charge added to the soft drink bottle to get the last in. Also slight tweak of the release valve in the kegmenter to drop it's pressure slightly help great.
Rock the keg alittle then cold crash . Works great


----------



## mtb

Coldspace said:


> Also highly recommend biofine, I've used it on past 4 batches and it easy, I mix 30 mls for 45 ltr batch into 200 mls of clean water , put into 1.25 ltr soft drink bottle pressure up with carb cap with hose on end, then click onto the kegmenter gas post and transfer in. Sometimes needs to be disconnected and extra charge added to the soft drink bottle to get the last in. Also slight tweak of the release valve in the kegmenter to drop it's pressure slightly help great.
> Rock the keg alittle then cold crash . Works great


That's a lot of effort compared to simply squirting into the top with the lid slightly open.. are you doing so to limit O2 ingress?


----------



## Gloveski

Coldspace said:


> Also highly recommend biofine, I've used it on past 4 batches and it easy, I mix 30 mls for 45 ltr batch into 200 mls of clean water , put into 1.25 ltr soft drink bottle pressure up with carb cap with hose on end, then click onto the kegmenter gas post and transfer in. Sometimes needs to be disconnected and extra charge added to the soft drink bottle to get the last in. Also slight tweak of the release valve in the kegmenter to drop it's pressure slightly help great.
> Rock the keg alittle then cold crash . Works great



Yeah love biofine I've just been putting straight into serving keg , used on the last 4 brews way easier than gelatine


----------



## Crusty

The same as Mardoo.
All the info I've dug up seems to suggest the same.


----------



## Mardoo

In terms of quality improvement, I can’t say I’ve noticed improved quality in lagers. It’s good to hear you have @Coldspace Hoppy or yeast-driven beers have benefitted from less oxygen ingress. I ferment them at lower pressure, about 5-8psi, so as not to suppress ester formation. 

However, storage time has definitely improved across the board. I’m definitely seeing less degradation over time. Not that this is something we’re all looking for…

I haven’t yet tried fermenting lagers at higher temperature combined with high pressure.


----------



## Coldspace

mtb said:


> That's a lot of effort compared to simply squirting into the top with the lid slightly open.. are you doing so to limit O2 ingress?


Not really much effort, fill, pressure up, click on and watch the biofine disappear into pressurised keg. Proballly easier than uncoupling the kegmenter after depressurisation and loosing nice headspace of co2, pouring in then coupling back up and repressure using gas bottle.

Might as well limit O2 ingress if going all out for pressure fermenting .

Biofine I find leaves more flavour in my beer than gelatine.


----------



## mtb

Coldspace said:


> Not really much effort, fill, pressure up, click on and watch the biofine disappear into pressurised keg. Proballly easier than uncoupling the kegmenter after depressurisation and loosing nice headspace of co2, pouring in then coupling back up and repressure using gas bottle.
> 
> Might as well limit O2 ingress if going all out for pressure fermenting .
> 
> Biofine I find leaves more flavour in my beer than gelatine.


Yeah fair point. And I totally agree on that last point - I became a biofine convert last month. Kicks the ass out of gelatine


----------



## Coldspace

Mardoo said:


> In terms of quality improvement, I can’t say I’ve noticed improved quality in lagers. It’s good to hear you have @Coldspace Hoppy or yeast-driven beers have benefitted from less oxygen ingress. I ferment them at lower pressure, about 5-8psi, so as not to suppress ester formation.
> 
> However, storage time has definitely improved across the board. I’m definitely seeing less degradation over time. Not that this is something we’re all looking for…
> 
> I haven’t yet tried fermenting lagers at higher temperature combined with high pressure.


 
I agree, quality not much better at the start, I do find the natural carb is softer on the palet so a better beer than forced carb , even slow force carb over several days is not as good . I used to alway natural carb up a few bottles in the old days per batch and keg the rest and other than alittle sediment I personally liked the bottle conditioned versions but now get the best of both worlds with the pressure fermented kegged beers.

I agree, my beers have remained fresher longer as well due to keeping the oxygen out.

I too haven't tried a higher temp ferment as I just find staying in the yeast range is still good. So I'll keep plodding along that way.


----------



## Crusty

I took a gravity reading yesterday & it was @1.029 from 1.045. Today's sample was @1.022, so it looks like I will be cranking up pressure tomorrow along with the temperature. I can't detect any sulfur smell from my hydrometer sample @12psi. The sample tasted fantastic with a little bit of carbonation & I don't see myself throwing out my hydro samples anymore. Quite refreshing & on it's way to being a very nice Lager even at this early stage.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Crusty said:


> I took a gravity reading yesterday & it was @1.029 from 1.045. Today's sample was @1.022, so it looks like I will be cranking up pressure tomorrow along with the temperature. I can't detect any sulfur smell from my hydrometer sample @12psi. The sample tasted fantastic with a little bit of carbonation & I don't see myself throwing out my hydro samples anymore. Quite refreshing & on it's way to being a very nice Lager even at this early stage.



Just watch the bubblies with the hydro samples. You want to de-gas it as much as possible to get the true measurement.


----------



## Crusty

Yeah will do. I let it sit to room temp before taking the reading


----------



## Lionman

anyone have a link to a gauge suitable for a spunding valve that goes to 30 PSI? Mine only goes to 15 which is annoying. Need to guesstimate above that but it also hits the end stop on the gauge well below 30 I think.

There are some on amazon, what is the thread size on the keg king PRV gauge?


----------



## Coldspace

Lionman said:


> anyone have a link to a gauge suitable for a spunding valve that goes to 30 PSI? Mine only goes to 15 which is annoying. Need to guesstimate above that but it also hits the end stop on the gauge well below 30 I think.
> 
> There are some on amazon, what is the thread size on the keg king PRV gauge?


You can buy a higher pressure gauge from kk for the kk spunding valve. Screws straight on.


----------



## pcqypcqy

Coldspace said:


> You can buy a higher pressure gauge from kk for the kk spunding valve. Screws straight on.



Still annoys me that this gauge isn't standard. Can't be much of a cost difference.


----------



## Crusty

I took a gravity reading just after lunch today & I'm sitting at 1.014, just a couple of points away from final gravity.
Cranked up the spunding valve & the fridge temp for the diacetyl rest. It took about 6-7hrs to go from 12psi up to my target 26psi but it's sitting steady. After 48hrs, I'll cap the fermenter & cold crash / Lager it for at least a couple of weeks.


----------



## rossbaker

Lionman said:


> anyone have a link to a gauge suitable for a spunding valve that goes to 30 PSI? Mine only goes to 15 which is annoying. Need to guesstimate above that but it also hits the end stop on the gauge well below 30 I think.
> 
> There are some on amazon, what is the thread size on the keg king PRV gauge?


I found one in Bunnings in the pool chemicals section which goes up to 40 psi I think. I haven't swapped it out for the other one, but it looks like it should swap out perfectly. Was about $20, not sure if that is a good price.


----------



## Crusty

I'm at 48hrs into my diacetyl rest, 26psi @18deg & about to cold crash/Lager.
Do you guys just unhook the spundy & drop your temp leaving the 26psi in the head space?
As the beer cools down, it's going to absorb that Co2 hopefully giving me my target 2.4vol/Co2.


----------



## Coldspace

Crusty said:


> I'm at 48hrs into my diacetyl rest, 26psi @18deg & about to cold crash/Lager.
> Do you guys just unhook the spundy & drop your temp leaving the 26psi in the head space?
> As the beer cools down, it's going to absorb that Co2 hopefully giving me my target 2.4vol/Co2.


Yeah mate, take valve off, drop to 0 or close to it. Leave head pressure in.
I'd leave for 48 hrs before sampling to allow the large vol to cool properly and the co2 to absorb nicely into the liquid. Will prob pour alittle cloudy first up but very drinkable.
Should be at a nice pouring pressure and carb level at 48 hrs. You can then just dispense from it as you go, with a pouring pressure added to it.

If after 3-4 days you feel it's slightly under carbed, then just leave on the gas for abit, or add a few 30 psi bursts to it over a couple of days. Shouldn't need much if any...

Will clear out nicely over at least another week, especially if added biofine etc.
I tend to inject under pressure my finnings, shake or rock the kegmenter slightly then chill.
I left my lagers for 2 weeks before transfer into cornies last summer.

As always, the beer will improve with age and lagering, but you should be able to sample a schooner 48 hrs after cc, just purge a quater glass off to clear the dip tube, then fill the glass with goodness 

Good stuff


----------



## Crusty

Cheers for the info & the tips.
I intend to Lager for at least 3 weeks but somehow I think I'm going to be sampling it daily after cold crash. Some years ago I made comment that on certain beers, I preferred the softer carbonation in bottles as opposed to force carbonation in kegs & that still holds true. I can't wait to sample this one.


----------



## Coldspace

Yep , I agree, I do find the softer carb is nicer.


----------



## Grott

Crusty said:


> Cheers for the info & the tips.
> I intend to Lager for at least 3 weeks but somehow I think I'm going to be sampling it daily after cold crash. Some years ago I made comment that on certain beers, I preferred the softer carbonation in bottles as opposed to force carbonation in kegs & that still holds true. I can't wait to sample this one.



Sampling daily Crusty? Won’t be any left when you go to keg/bottle.


----------



## Crusty

Grott said:


> Sampling daily Crusty? Won’t be any left when you go to keg/bottle.



This may be problematic.
I might not even transfer it after Lagering depending on how happy I am with the yeast settlement & clarity.
I don't see any dramas leaving it on the yeast if it gets polished off within the month but I'll probably transfer it to a serving keg.


----------



## bradsbrew

Can be a bit of a problem alright. My last batch was 27 litres and by the time I was ready to pitch the next batch I could barely fill a 9 litre keg.


----------



## Coldspace

bradsbrew said:


> Can be a bit of a problem alright. My last batch was 27 litres and by the time I was ready to pitch the next batch I could barely fill a 9 litre keg.


Same as me , lol
I generally have 42-45 ltrs in my kegmenters , and after sampling etc I usually get 1 full corny and maybe 9 ltr and 5 ltr mini , ha


----------



## bradsbrew

Installing a Celli tap to the fermenting fridge probably didn't help.


----------



## bradsbrew

I close off the spunding valve but leave it on whilst cold crashing, so I can watch the pressure dial and know how much gas is being absorbed. Once the dial is showing my desired level I swap over to the c02 bottle.


----------



## pcqypcqy

bradsbrew said:


> I close off the spunding valve but leave it on whilst cold crashing, so I can watch the pressure dial and know how much gas is being absorbed. Once the dial is showing my desired level I swap over to the c02 bottle.



+1


----------



## Crusty

Well, I couldn't help myself & had to take a sample. It's only on day two of cold crash/Lagering. It certainly needs to condition & clear but it's bloody awesome. The carbonation is almost perfect, maybe just a little under carbed but not much. It'll be hooked up at serving pressure so that should sort that out. 11 days after I brewed this beer & if the clarity doesn't bother you, it's absolutely drinkable & really good. I really don't think this will even make it to a serving keg to be honest.


----------



## Grott

That looks good Crusty, told you a few posts back you wouldn’t make it to a keg.


----------



## Gloveski

Crusty said:


> Well, I couldn't help myself & had to take a sample. It's only on day two of cold crash/Lagering. It certainly needs to condition & clear but it's bloody awesome. The carbonation is almost perfect, maybe just a little under carbed but not much. It'll be hooked up at serving pressure so that should sort that out. 11 days after I brewed this beer & if the clarity doesn't bother you, it's absolutely drinkable & really good. I really don't think this will even make it to a serving keg to be honest.
> View attachment 109372
> View attachment 109373



Awesome Crusty , I just got my self a lagering fridge today I have basically taken over the carport with fridges , lucky I have a very understanding wife who likes my beers especially of late , had a few issues with my first couple of transfers under pressure for some stupid reason I had it in my head that I needed to close off the spunding valve once it started to transfer. We live and learn


----------



## Gloveski

These spunding valves are still a fiddly bloody thing . I have one that works perfect and the other I have to fiddle constantly with it . Not game to touch the ok one as it is set to about 11 PSI .
Currently have two brews on yeast cakes I brewed Monday and they fired up within 6 hours , suprised by the lack of lag time to be honest


----------



## Coldspace

Crusty said:


> Well, I couldn't help myself & had to take a sample. It's only on day two of cold crash/Lagering. It certainly needs to condition & clear but it's bloody awesome. The carbonation is almost perfect, maybe just a little under carbed but not much. It'll be hooked up at serving pressure so that should sort that out. 11 days after I brewed this beer & if the clarity doesn't bother you, it's absolutely drinkable & really good. I really don't think this will even make it to a serving keg to be honest.
> View attachment 109372
> View attachment 109373


That looks great for 2 days...
Did you use any type of finnings?
Give it a cuppla weeks and will be great.
Even 1 week.
26 psi I find is good for me, it's a fine line between too little and too much. Pouring pressure for couple days will polish it up if you want more. I do find though that as it's clears and lagers out the beer hold the bubbles better in the glass. 1 week is way better than 2 days, 2 weeks better yet.
Yummy , what sort of lager?
I find it's a fun way of brewing, adds a new dimension to the hobby...


----------



## Crusty

I did the St. Louis Lager from the recipe data base.
I've made this beer numerous times & I really like it.
It always finishes crisp & clean & at this early stage fermenting under pressure, this beer is shaping up to be an absolute cracker.
I'm loving the natural carbonation & the 26psi is very close to where I want it. I'm looking forward to having a couple after two weeks at Lagering temps. I never use any form of finings apart from a couple of whirlfloc tablets in the boil. My kegged beers are always very clear but not super bright but as the keg starts to be consumed & the conditioning days increase, the beers get very clear. The pressure adjustment can be a little tricky to get dialed in as it's not instantaneous like pressurized Co2, so I found I had to go back in 5-10mins to re-check after making any adjustments. Once set though, it's rock solid. I have no idea of the science involved in this whole process, but if you can drink a Lager, 11 days after you brewed it & it taste's this good, I wont be fermenting without the spunding valve ever again. I set 12psi for my fermentation & I think anywhere from 5-15psi is a good pressure to be at. Any pressure should suppress esters so I don't think it's critical at what pressure you ferment at. I may be wrong, higher pressures may produce less esters??? I really only wanted to ferment under pressure for the natural carbonation as I prefer it, but being able to consume your beer a week or two earlier is pretty appealing.


----------



## Coldspace

Crusty said:


> I did the St. Louis Lager from the recipe data base.
> I've made this beer numerous times & I really like it.
> It always finishes crisp & clean & at this early stage fermenting under pressure, this beer is shaping up to be an absolute cracker.
> I'm loving the natural carbonation & the 26psi is very close to where I want it. I'm looking forward to having a couple after two weeks at Lagering temps. I never use any form of finings apart from a couple of whirlfloc tablets in the boil. My kegged beers are always very clear but not super bright but as the keg starts to be consumed & the conditioning days increase, the beers get very clear. The pressure adjustment can be a little tricky to get dialed in as it's not instantaneous like pressurized Co2, so I found I had to go back in 5-10mins to re-check after making any adjustments. Once set though, it's rock solid. I have no idea of the science involved in this whole process, but if you can drink a Lager, 11 days after you brewed it & it taste's this good, I wont be fermenting without the spunding valve ever again. I set 12psi for my fermentation & I think anywhere from 5-15psi is a good pressure to be at. Any pressure should suppress esters so I don't think it's critical at what pressure you ferment at. I may be wrong, higher pressures may produce less esters??? I really only wanted to ferment under pressure for the natural carbonation as I prefer it, but being able to consume your beer a week or two earlier is pretty appealing.


Totally agree...
I might try this lager out next brews. Got some lagers planned.

Cheers


----------



## Digga

cliffo said:


> Most parts sourced from Amazon but the flare fitting came from Brew Hardware.
> 
> Pressure Relief Valve - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> Tee Piece - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LSSLE0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> Gauge - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CU5VMNM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> Flare fitting - https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ffltomnpt.htm?Click=6524
> 
> All ship to Aus so no need for a shipping forwarder.



Hey Cliffo,

Was your shipping around $45 for the items? I've added 2 of each to the cart and they are shipping in 2 orders and shipping is costing 2/3rds the $ as the items. will have to see if I can source local or try somewhere else as $120 for the parts minus the flares seems very excessive!!

I would buy a KK one or ibrew but both are going to need a gauge upgrade to read carbonating pressures as both are supplied with 15psi gauges.


----------



## nosco

I got mine of Amazon and it was pretty exy. I noticed iBrew seem to be stocking them for a lot cheaper. They look exactly the same to me.


----------



## cliffo

Digga said:


> Was your shipping around $45 for the items?



My order was shipped in two lots.

I bought a couple of non-brewing related items too and a quick check looks like about $35 USD for delivery so looks roughly the same.


----------



## malt junkie

for the sake of simplicity I'm just going to grab a few of these. Yeah prolly a little pricey, but ICBF rooting around with trial and error.


----------



## Digga

malt junkie said:


> for the sake of simplicity I'm just going to grab a few of these. Yeah prolly a little pricey, but ICBF rooting around with trial and error.


Linky isn't working??


----------



## Mardoo

Did for me, just slow.


----------



## Crusty

Linky worked for me.


----------



## Digga

I get that screen but I copied the bits I needed and got there.

I just sent an order off to keg king [emoji24] wish I would have seen this one an hour ago it's exactly as the amazon links would build.
Might just need another one!


----------



## bradsbrew

Link works.

Looks like arond $60 delivered to AU. Might grab one myself, actually might grab 2 so i can save on postage


----------



## pcqypcqy

I finally gave my KK spunding valve a proper clean out prior to pitching a beer yesterday, and boy was it filthy. Gave it a good soak in perc and then got the brush in whereever I could. Most of the parts are seized up tight so couldn't disassemble.

If you've ever had a krausen explosion, or used the spunding valve when transferring to a corny keg and overfilled it, I highly recommend you clean yours. I haven't lost a brew yet but it seems distinctly possible.


----------



## nosco

nosco said:


> I noticed iBrew seem to be stocking them for a lot cheaper. They look exactly the same to me.



Not even close. Dont know how I came to that conclusion.


----------



## Digga

bradsbrew said:


> Link works.
> 
> Looks like arond $60 delivered to AU. Might grab one myself, actually might grab 2 so i can save on postage


Mini bulk buy?


----------



## malt junkie

Digga said:


> Mini bulk buy?


They've got 4 in stock don't think that'd work!


----------



## Digga

4 isn't mini enough??


----------



## fishingbrad

bradsbrew said:


> Link works.
> 
> Looks like arond $60 delivered to AU. Might grab one myself, actually might grab 2 so i can save on postage



$81 when converted to AUD. Just a bit to rich for me, but eager to hear how you guys fair with it.


----------



## malt junkie

fishingbrad said:


> $81 when converted to AUD. Just a bit to rich for me, but eager to hear how you guys fair with it.


Hmm yet to bite the bullet, they did just restock, might grab one for testing, then have a chat with Bobby see if he can do a bulk lot down under, watch this space, prolly just after Xmas.


----------



## mtb

malt junkie said:


> have a chat with Bobby see if he can do a bulk lot down under, watch this space, prolly just after Xmas.


Super keen.
Can we please call it "Spunder Down Under"? Or some variant of the pun? Thanks.


----------



## Lionman

Digga said:


> Hey Cliffo,
> 
> Was your shipping around $45 for the items? I've added 2 of each to the cart and they are shipping in 2 orders and shipping is costing 2/3rds the $ as the items. will have to see if I can source local or try somewhere else as $120 for the parts minus the flares seems very excessive!!
> 
> I would buy a KK one or ibrew but both are going to need a gauge upgrade to read carbonating pressures as both are supplied with 15psi gauges.



I use the KK one for carbonation. The gauge goes to 15, but there is enough throw in the gauge past the 15psi mark to get a pretty good guestimation of the pressure. I just set it till the needle is just shy of the endstop and the beer comes out nicely carbonated. Its probably just a little short of 20psi.






If you are after more accurate carbonation levels then yep, a better gauge would be needed. I find it does the job ok though.


----------



## malt junkie

Currently for one with shipping comes to US$61 for 20 comes to US$886, a significant saving there without getting a discount or specific shipping, the other thing is I'd probably ask them to drop the ball lock connector(I think we all have one or can get one without the expense of shipping it around the world). Like I said I'll chase this down over the next couple of weeks, don't be suprised if it hasn't kick off before december.


----------



## Digga

malt junkie said:


> Currently for one with shipping comes to US$61 for 20 comes to US$886, a significant saving there without getting a discount or specific shipping, the other thing is I'd probably ask them to drop the ball lock connector(I think we all have one or can get one without the expense of shipping it around the world). Like I said I'll chase this down over the next couple of weeks, don't be suprised if it hasn't kick off before december.


Can't wait. The KK one I have is a bit wobbly in the adjustment thread. Nothing that thread tap won't fix though.


----------



## pirateagenda

i use a 9.95 keg king guage that goes to 60 psi. easy fix.


----------



## Mardoo

malt junkie said:


> Hmm yet to bite the bullet, they did just restock, might grab one for testing, then have a chat with Bobby see if he can do a bulk lot down under, watch this space, prolly just after Xmas.


I reckon we could probably get at least 20 going. There will be a few new pressure fermenting souls due to JB's score and generous sharing of it.

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/kegmenters-outer-east-melb.97030/#post-1486879


----------



## JB

I'm in too


----------



## Lionman

pirateagenda said:


> i use a 9.95 keg king guage that goes to 60 psi. easy fix.



linky?

edit:

this one?

http://kegking.com.au/co2-cylinders/low-pressure-gauge-0-80psi.html


----------



## Digga

http://kegking.com.au/co2-cylinders/low-pressure-gauge-0-80psi.html


----------



## Digga

Think that is the one they are referring to..


----------



## Shadime

Im in as well


----------



## pirateagenda

Lionman said:


> linky?
> 
> edit:
> 
> this one?
> 
> http://kegking.com.au/co2-cylinders/low-pressure-gauge-0-80psi.html



yep that one ... thought it was 60 but just checked and it is 80.


----------



## ridge runner

Anyone wanting one of the pressure relief valve as sold on amazon ? Ordering a few.


----------



## bigmacthepunker

I grabbed these as my sister in law in the US on holiday atm. Free delivery.


----------



## Digga

I'd be all over one at the right price Ridge runner.

I tried and every time I got my items in the cart they wouldn't ship to Australia as some items were from amazon and you had to have a min spend etc. By the time I got enough for the mini spend things added up then they shipped in 2 separate shipments and it was around $80 ea for 3.

I'll wait till a BB happens as mentioned above.

They look exactly the same as the amazon pieces so see how that comes out first.


----------



## rude

You need to use shop mate Digga
This will give you an American address
Postage is about $30 this way though


----------



## fishingbrad

With the opening of Amazon AU store immanent, I hoping we can get through this.


----------



## ridge runner

Pressure gauge of 80psi any reason for that size ? My plans use a 30psi?


----------



## Mardoo

AFAIC, you want to experiment with very high fermenting pressures you’d find an 80psi gauge useful. However for almost all pressure fermenting purposes 30psi is enough. 

Anyone ferment above 30psi?


----------



## hobospy

May sound stupid but are all you guys that are fermenting in kegs, are they 50 litre kegs? Assuming you would have to reduce the volume to ferment in a standard corny key?


----------



## bradsbrew

hobospy said:


> May sound stupid but are all you guys that are fermenting in kegs, are they 50 litre kegs? Assuming you would have to reduce the volume to ferment in a standard corny key?


I have a 23L mytton keg that I also use. Pressure keeps the krausen down, be carefull when releasing pressure at ferment temp, as the krausen will rise rapidly (much like when you open up a warm bottle of beer i guess)


----------



## hobospy

Ahhhhh, that makes sense. May have to just reduce my fermenter volume. Does anyone include a NRV between the keg post and the gauge?


----------



## Mardoo

Be a good idea. Honestly it hadn't even occurred to me. Would be a good alternative to cleaning the spunding valve every few brews. I may get a couple of those German disconnects with the NRV built in.

Edit: Oh, and volume. I ferment up to 30L in a 40 litre Mytton Rodd keg. I've actually had 20L ferments in those blow krause out the valve, and 35L ferments not do that, all on top fermenting yeasts. May try Fermcap.


----------



## hotmelt

Mardoo said:


> Be a good idea. Honestly it hadn't even occurred to me. Would be a good alternative to cleaning the spunding valve every few brews. I may get a couple of those German disconnects with the NRV built in.



Wouldn't it stop your gauge working.


----------



## Mardoo

Derpa derpa derp, didn’t think of that either


----------



## hobospy

Oh yeah [emoji23]


----------



## ridge runner

hobospy said:


> May sound stupid but are all you guys that are fermenting in kegs, are they 50 litre kegs? Assuming you would have to reduce the volume to ferment in a standard corny key?


I'm going to make 16L in a 19L corny use fermcap to keep krausen down . Thought I had a 23L but checked and its only 19L . Not too fussy on volume.


----------



## hotmelt

I wonder if you could add a T-piece between the disconnect and the adjuster with a collection bottle attached,you could slowly unscrew it to release the pressure and catch the krausen.Or a hose from the T-piece to a carb cap then a bottle.


----------



## pirateagenda

ridge runner said:


> Pressure gauge of 80psi any reason for that size ? My plans use a 30psi?



only reason for me was that the 80psi was the next one up from 15psi when i ordered. i rarely go over 30 on purpose.


----------



## rossbaker

ridge runner said:


> I'm going to make 16L in a 19L corny use fermcap to keep krausen down . Thought I had a 23L but checked and its only 19L . Not too fussy on volume.


This is what I'm doing. My current batch size fills 2 x 16.5l cubes which seem to be a pretty good size for fermenting in a standard corny.


----------



## ridge runner

rossbaker said:


> This is what I'm doing. My current batch size fills 2 x 16.5l cubes which seem to be a pretty good size for fermenting in a standard corny.


I talked to my local UBREW and they do 50L split in to 3 corny, so 16.5L each . Thats what lead me down this path to start with .


----------



## rossbaker

ridge runner said:


> I talked to my local UBREW and they do 50L split in to 3 corny, so 16.5L each . Thats what lead me down this path to start with .


They ferment in cornys? I seem to remember big plastic fermenters lined with plastic bags.


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## Crusty

hobospy said:


> May sound stupid but are all you guys that are fermenting in kegs, are they 50 litre kegs? Assuming you would have to reduce the volume to ferment in a standard corny key?



I brewed a 45L batch into a 50L keg.


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## Digga

I just brewed a 40L batch in a 45L mutton rod keg will not overflow issuse etc


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## peteru

> Wouldn't it stop your gauge working.



It would. The whole idea is that the valve is one way and to protect the gauge, it's the "wrong" way for letting anything into it, ergo the gauge would have nothing to measure.


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## ridge runner

rossbaker said:


> They ferment in cornys? I seem to remember big plastic fermenters lined with plastic bags.


No sorry they dont ferment in cornys. I think they use 60L fermenters ? Then fill 3 x cornys for pick up . But when he said 16L per corny I thought 3L headspace . Wasn't long after that I heard about fermenting under pressure and bing go . Reduce brew volume save abit cash , ferment with pressure quicker process. Winning.


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## droid

I have pressure fermented my first batch. One weird thing is that (the first keg at least) the keg seems to be maintaining pressure even after pulling a few pints. Is there a reason that a pressure fermented brew would do this as opposed to fully carbing with c02 and having to add c02 as you empty the keg? or is just that the beer might have been over-carbed to start with? come to think of it, it was pretty foamy to start with..


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## ridge runner

No chill in the corny , someone at the start talked about doing it any feedback ?


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## pirateagenda

ridge runner said:


> No chill in the corny , someone at the start talked about doing it any feedback ?


do able but pressurise with c02 when hot to avoid it collapsing as it cools


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## ridge runner

Could you somehow use the corny pvr ?


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## Lionman

I use a minikeg as a blow off vessel. Lose very little volume.


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## Wobbly74

ridge runner said:


> No chill in the corny , someone at the start talked about doing it any feedback ?


I’ve pressure fermented a golden ale in a 26L keg recently - just dumped boiling wort straight into the keg, clamped it, inverted for 10 minutes, then let it cool and pitched the next day. I equalised pressure a few times as it cooled. Worked a treat!


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## ridge runner

Can someone share a co2/vol/temp chart ?


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## Digga

the 2 that I have are in oF but are attached


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## cliffo

I've changed my spunding valve setup so that I can just lay them on top of the kegmenters.

This setup will allow me to buy a chest freezer for fermenting which will fit both of my 26L kegmenters at the same time as connecting the tee piece direct to the gas disconnect made it all too high to fit.


----------



## mtb

I have four kegmenters and I do double batches, meaning two kegmenters contain the same beer and ferment at the same rate (assuming yeast pitch rate is the same). Could I share a spunding valve across both? 

I was thinking about sharing one across all four kegmenters initally - but I assume there'd be some cross-kegmenter aroma contamination and should only share spunding valves to other kegmenters with the same beer.


----------



## TidalPete

malt junkie said:


> Currently for one with shipping comes to US$61 for 20 comes to US$886, a significant saving there without getting a discount or specific shipping, the other thing is I'd probably ask them to drop the ball lock connector(I think we all have one or can get one without the expense of shipping it around the world). Like I said I'll chase this down over the next couple of weeks, don't be suprised if it hasn't kick off before december.



So how is this prospective BB going MJ?
I'd be keen on one if the price is right.


----------



## Grott

mtb said:


> I have four kegmenters and I do double batches, meaning two kegmenters contain the same beer and ferment at the same rate (assuming yeast pitch rate is the same). Could I share a spunding valve across both?
> 
> I was thinking about sharing one across all four kegmenters initally - but I assume there'd be some cross-kegmenter aroma contamination and should only share spunding valves to other kegmenters with the same beer.



You could do the four if each line had a non return valve so nothing could flow back into the kegs, 4 lines then into a 4 way in connection to 1 out for the spunding valve.


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## malt junkie

Being able to reverse the oneways on a manifold would be awesome for this


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## malt junkie

TidalPete said:


> So how is this prospective BB going MJ?
> I'd be keen on one if the price is right.


I'll be on it soon, it's that swap time of year so been a little busy. Fear not; on this first thing next week.


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## mtb

What I'd really love to see on the market (HINT HINT, RETAILERS WATCHING THE THREAD), is a non-adjustable spunding valve. I would prefer a valve set at 15, 20, 25PSI - whatever suits my fermentation - to a valve with a dodgy little adjustment knob that can't be relied upon. 
I can only assume such a device would be cheaper than the current valves since it wouldn't require a pressure gauge nor adjustability.


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## rude

Pressure cooker valve like Dent knocked up ages ago


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## mtb

rude said:


> Pressure cooker valve like Dent knocked up ages ago


I'm keen, do you know where the details of that are? Tried the garbage search function but it didn't turn up anything except his posts about other DIY options, no mention of pressure cooker.


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## rude

I haven't got it saved would have to do a search & read
If I come across it will post it up


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## Mardoo

Have you tried to Google "site aussiehomebrewer.com (subject)" Works much better.


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## Mardoo

https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/pressurized-fermentation.75447/page-4#post-1148119
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/pressurized-fermentation.75447/page-4#post-1148725


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## malt junkie

Have contacted brewhardware, waiting for a reply. Keep an eye on the BB forum, it will be a case of first in best dressed, but don't frett if all goes well and there is enough reserves I'll do a second round.

MJ


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## JB

malt junkie said:


> Have contacted brewhardware, waiting for a reply. Keep an eye on the BB forum, it will be a case of first in best dressed, but don't frett if all goes well and there is enough reserves I'll do a second round.
> 
> MJ



Hell yeah, nice work MJ!
I swung by KK this morning & they're currently out of stock of spunding valves & the low pressure gauges :/


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## ridge runner

cliffo said:


> I've changed my spunding valve setup so that I can just lay them on top of the kegmenters.
> 
> This setup will allow me to buy a chest freezer for fermenting which will fit both of my 26L kegmenters at the same time as connecting the tee piece direct to the gas disconnect made it all too high to fit.
> 
> View attachment 109943


Nice , whats the parts used ?


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## cliffo

ridge runner said:


> Nice , whats the parts used ?



Check details here.


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## ridge runner

cliffo said:


> Check details here.


Whats the grey plastic part the hose joins to on the Tee ?


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## cliffo

ridge runner said:


> Whats the grey plastic part the hose joins to on the Tee ?



John Guest Straight Adapter


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## ridge runner

cliffo said:


> John Guest Straight Adapter


So the swivel adapter not used , Cant see it in the pic ?


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## cliffo

ridge runner said:


> So the swivel adapter not used , Cant see it in the pic ?



Correct, not for this version. 

I originally had it connected direct to the gas disconnect but the height was to tall to fit into the chest freezer I'm planning to put the kegmenters in.

The JG fitting and gas line replace the swivel adapter.


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## ridge runner

cliffo said:


> Correct, not for this version.
> 
> I originally had it connected direct to the gas disconnect but the height was to tall to fit into the chest freezer I'm planning to put the kegmenters in.
> 
> The JG fitting and gas line replace the swivel adapter.


Have you tested it does it work ok ? What length of hose is needed or doesn't matter ? Any problems with bsp to npt ? I did talk to my local blackwood team , they reckon use a good thick thread tap and should be fine.


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## cliffo

ridge runner said:


> Have you tested it does it work ok ? What length of hose is needed or doesn't matter ? Any problems with bsp to npt ? I did talk to my local blackwood team , they reckon use a good thick thread tap and should be fine.



Yep, works fine and currently holding 14 PSI on a Weizen.

Hose length doesn't matter. 

The JG fitting screwed in without issue and holds pressure fine without any thread tape.


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## mtb

@malt junkie any news re the buy?

If there's anything I can do to assist, definitely let me know. My job does not require me to work very hard and I get bored (hence why I brew so damn often)


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## malt junkie

mtb said:


> @malt junkie any news re the buy?
> 
> If there's anything I can do to assist, definitely let me know. My job does not require me to work very hard and I get bored (hence why I brew so damn often)



News aint good, I've sent emails and PM on HBT, with no response, however it is the silly season, and Bobby could well be under the pump. I also did my numbers on a mass order off their site, and there is a saving ordering 20 or more, however not enough to cover outward postage from me to you. So I bit the bullet and order 2 for myself, these should be arriving mid week. I'll definitely write something up when they get in and I start testing. I haven't completely given up and will try again early in the new year.

Mike


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## mtb

That's a shame. Let's hope you're right about silly season - I think you are.


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## ridge runner

Anyone using a tilt in the keg?


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## ridge runner

cliffo said:


> Correct, not for this version.
> 
> I originally had it connected direct to the gas disconnect but the height was to tall to fit into the chest freezer I'm planning to put the kegmenters in.
> 
> The JG fitting and gas line replace the swivel adapter.


What size JG fitting on the gas connect ?


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## cliffo

1/4" BSP screw fitting x 5/16" push connect


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## ridge runner

Could you run multiple kegs with a manifold and 1 spunding pressure relief valve?


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## wide eyed and legless

If all your fermentations start at the same time and go for the same amount of time, yes, but better to build a manifold and flush out the empty kegs with the co2 from the fermentation.


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## ridge runner

With the amazon valve do we still need a psi gauge? As we can set them by the markings ?


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## Maheel

markings are a bit random on mine, suggest you use a gauge


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## wide eyed and legless

Agree with Maheel there, you need to calibrate it to a gauge, the one on your bottle will do.


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## ridge runner

Really, only reason I got one was for the reliability . Kind of disappointing to hear after spending money on it .


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## ridge runner

Maheel said:


> markings are a bit random on mine, suggest you use a gauge


How much is it out by ? I was planning on 10psi ferment then a 30psi carb phase .


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## Maheel

the two i have a different from each other and the markings 

they are WAY better than the cheap ones like keg king have

a easy way to use it is to buy the cheap sunding setup, screw off the cheap spund and screw on your good one, it's what i did, i bought two of the cheap ones a while back and upgraded the spund with these from the WEAL bulk buy.
no regrets investing the extra 

you could work it off your CO2 reg and come up with the "real" range of your valve
write it down and every now and then re-check

all that said my gauges could be out.... i should swap the valves set at a know set point and test the gauges....


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## ridge runner

Maheel said:


> the two i have a different from each other and the markings
> 
> they are WAY better than the cheap ones like keg king have
> 
> a easy way to use it is to buy the cheap sunding setup, screw off the cheap spund and screw on your good one, it's what i did, i bought two of the cheap ones a while back and upgraded the spund with these from the WEAL bulk buy.
> no regrets investing the extra
> 
> you could work it off your CO2 reg and come up with the "real" range of your valve
> write it down and every now and then re-check
> 
> all that said my gauges could be out.... i should swap the valves set at a know set point and test the gauges....


Cheers for the feedback.


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## ridge runner

wide eyed and legless said:


> If all your fermentations start at the same time and go for the same amount of time, yes, but better to build a manifold and flush out the empty kegs with the co2 from the fermentation.


1 of my brew mates is putting a john guest splitter fitting in to run a 2nd fermenter. I'm thinking they'd need to be of similar gravity ? Not 100% sure on that tho .


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## wide eyed and legless

I built my manifold and realised afterwards that the possibility of running 3,4,even 5 ferments would be nigh impossible. But if you pressure ferment as it was intended (see Teri Fahrendorf Closed System Pressurised Fermentation) then you possibly could run more than one ferment and close the valve to carbonate the beer naturally. Making pseudo lagers is different technique again.
My manifold build link. https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/fermenting-under-pressure.66163/page-22


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## brewgasm

Maheel said:


> markings are a bit random on mine, suggest you use a gauge


I'm not sure if I am correct or not but I think that the grading might correlate to the percentage of the valves capacity. So 100 may be the absolute minimum or maximum setting and like everone is saying the only way to determine what pressure it is set to is to use a guage.


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## ridge runner

brewgasm said:


> I'm not sure if I am correct or not but I think that the grading might correlate to the percentage of the valves capacity. So 100 may be the absolute minimum or maximum setting and like everone is saying the only way to determine what pressure it is set to is to use a guage.


My understanding of the valve and its markings was its 0 to 100psi , so if but I wanted to use 10psi i just dual in 10 . if some are saying its not then so be it . Gauge it is .


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## brewgasm

ridge runner said:


> My understanding of the valve and its markings was its 0 to 100psi , so if but I wanted to use 10psi i just dual in 10 . if some are saying its not then so be it . Gauge it is .


I wouldn't use a spunding valve without a guage and it's just a good idea to know what pressure you have in your vessel anyway


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## ridge runner

brewgasm said:


> I wouldn't use a spunding valve without a guage and it's just a good idea to know what pressure you have in your vessel anyway


In the name of science I have emailed the manufacturer. After all its an industrial component designed for air compressors . Also the kegs are rates 130psi , so unless the pressure goes over 130psi it should be fine? Interested what they have to say really.


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## ridge runner

brewgasm said:


> I wouldn't use a spunding valve without a guage and it's just a good idea to know what pressure you have in your vessel anyway


In the name of science I have emailed the manufacturer. After all its an industrial component designed for air compressors . Also the kegs are rates 130psi , so unless the pressure goes over 130psi it should be fine? Interested what they have to say really.


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## wide eyed and legless

The 0- 100 is in PSI values, they are not precise but it doesn't matter, calibrate within the means, at least there is a datum to work to.


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## brewgasm

ridge runner said:


> My understanding of the valve and its markings was its 0 to 100psi , so if but I wanted to use 10psi i just dual in 10 . if some are saying its not then so be it . Gauge it is .


I have found some online references to the scale being in psi. Accuracy varies wildly between valves depending on the position of the stick on guage and the variance between the internal spring from one valve to the next. Apparently they are easily modified with a softer spring to give a range of 0-30psi making it even more ideal for use in a spunding valve.

So the sticker is more or less only useful to indicate the position of the valve which is still quite handy


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## ridge runner

brewgasm said:


> I have found some online references to the scale being in psi. Accuracy varies wildly between valves depending on the position of the stick on guage and the variance between the internal spring from one valve to the next. Apparently they are easily modified with a softer spring to give a range of 0-30psi making it even more ideal for use in a spunding valve.
> 
> So the sticker is more or less only useful to indicate the position of the valve which is still quite handy


Hay thats interesting, any links ?


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## ridge runner

brewgasm said:


> I have found some online references to the scale being in psi. Accuracy varies wildly between valves depending on the position of the stick on guage and the variance between the internal spring from one valve to the next. Apparently they are easily modified with a softer spring to give a range of 0-30psi making it even more ideal for use in a spunding valve.
> 
> So the sticker is more or less only useful to indicate the position of the valve which is still quite handy


Had an email back from manufacturer , they said allow for +/- of 2 . So if you set it to the 10 marking on the unit it will be with 8 - 12 PSI range (does that fit with what people are finding when using it ?) . 
They dont see any issue not using an PSI gauge if the tank is rated 130PSI . Just thought I'd let you know. Cheers .


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## wide eyed and legless

No, they are not that good, it is only a cheap valve, mine is on about 30 PSI for 10 PSI


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## ridge runner

wide eyed and legless said:


> No, they are not that good, it is only a cheap valve, mine is on about 30 PSI for 10 PSI


Maybe we're talking about a different valve its not cheap , could have got 1 2/3 cheaper easy if I wanted a cheap one . You talking about the CR25-100 ?


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## wide eyed and legless

You must have missed our bulk buy of the CR25 PRV $4.66 USD each $5,77 AUD landed.
I believe they are made in India and possibly assembled in Fenton Missouri, you could go to the trouble of buying a load of different poppet springs and trying to find one that will deliver a better accuracy, but would it be worth it? To do this one would have to be certain that the gauge is accurate, far better to get a decent gauge and calibrate to the markings as suggested before.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/eoi-pressure-relief-valve.97671/


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## Maheel

Hey RR you should just get yourself a gauge and set it up properly

these type of PRV are so low tech and cheap that you would not expect any real value from the sticker showing values on the side.

if it was to be used without some sort of gauge "properly" it would have to be certified and likely be more expensive.


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## Truman42

Does anyone have the new KK spunding valve that only goes up to 15 PSi??? Whats the point of it??


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## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> Does anyone have the new KK spunding valve that only goes up to 15 PSi??? Whats the point of it??


The question should be, whats the point of anything higher than 15 PSI. The idea is to carbonate the beer at the closing stages of fermentation. That's all the majority of craft beer tanks are rated at, simply no point in going higher.


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## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> The question should be, whats the point of anything higher than 15 PSI. The idea is to carbonate the beer at the closing stages of fermentation. That's all the majority of craft beer tanks are rated at, simply no point in going higher.


Ive read a few posts here and there where people are spunding at 20PSI and 20C but must admit i wasnt sure if this was the norm or an exception? So 15 PSI is the maximum you would normally do???


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## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> Ive read a few posts here and there where people are spunding at 20PSI and 20C but must admit i wasnt sure if this was the norm or an exception? So 15 PSI is the maximum you would normally do???


I don't do it, but I do understand why those making AIPA's do it. A low pressure at the end of fermentation will help everything to settle out when cold crashing or just get enough co2 for serving.
I watched Proffesor Tron Nguyen using his single vessel system, mash, boil and ferment in one vessel. Pressure fermenting, 30 degrees C and 15 PSI for every beer he makes including stout, and he uses any type of yeast ready in 5 days, he made beer but not even a good beer.


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## Neil Buttriss

I do 10psi, usually have the spunding valve open for the first 2 days then capture, or use an airlock for those days. If I get a vigorous ferment I will put some pressure on it though as this keeps it calm. I also use the captured C02 to go to the keg that I'm transferring into.


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## Greg Donohue

Truman42 said:


> Does anyone have the new KK spunding valve that only goes up to 15 PSi??? Whats the point of it??


I ferment at 1.7bar .
Perfect carbonation for my liking .


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## Truman42

Greg Donohue said:


> I ferment at 1.7bar .
> Perfect carbonation for my liking .


So you obviously dont use the KK spunding valve then?


----------



## Greg Donohue

Truman42 said:


> So you obviously dont use the KK spunding valve then?


I have 2 one from kegland and another one that had a 15psi gauge on it which i changed out for a bigger psi gauge .


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## Danscraftbeer

Same. I just swapped out the 15 psi gauge for the next range up which is 80 psi. ~ $8 each. I finish the ferments at ~ 23 psi for standard pale Ales or lager. That's at ferment temps. That seems to be the right carbonation levels. Eg. An Ale finished at 23 psi at ferment temp then chilled down to serving temps ~4c will drop that pressure to about 17 psi by memory, not that I bother to check that every time. Transferred at those pressure levels. Then served at ~8 to 10 psi.


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## wide eyed and legless

For those who favour the diaphragm valve make sure it gets a regular clean, not only for sanitary purposes but also to stop it sticking. Maybe put a receiver before the valve.


----------



## razz

That's a great post WEAL. I have used mine when filling kegs from the fermenter with pressurised transfer so I can't see the liquid level. I've filled the valve with beer a couple of times now and always strip it down for cleaning afterwards. What are your thoughts on a receiver? I'm wondering what I can use as a type of visual indicator before the valve gets filled with beer.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I don't use any pressure, well there is barely any going through a 5 mm tube, I have my receiver between primary and secondary fermenters. Would need a bit more thought for pressure fermenting, maybe a collection bottle could be adapted. Or even something with a Mason jar like Ballarat Guy made.


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## goatchop41

razz said:


> I'm wondering what I can use as a type of visual indicator before the valve gets filled with beer.


Just use a set of scales that the keg sits on


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## Grmblz

razz said:


> That's a great post WEAL. I have used mine when filling kegs from the fermenter with pressurised transfer so I can't see the liquid level. I've filled the valve with beer a couple of times now and always strip it down for cleaning afterwards. What are your thoughts on a receiver? I'm wondering what I can use as a type of visual indicator before the valve gets filled with beer.


Hi razz how about one of these, I tried to post the links but their site is down (no great surprise) I've pulled it apart to make it clear how it works, I'd just use the plastic disconnects, and if using hop pellets I would remove the poppets. That's a 1.25L pet bottle that used to have ginger beer in it. Just shout if it's a bit vague.


----------



## razz

Grmblz said:


> Hi razz how about one of these, I tried to post the links but their site is down (no great surprise) I've pulled it apart to make it clear how it works, I'd just use the plastic disconnects, and if using hop pellets I would remove the poppets. That's a 1.25L pet bottle that used to have ginger beer in it. Just shout if it's a bit vague.


Thanks Grmblz, I get what you mean. I’ll see what I can rig up with my box of spares and I have some PET bottles.


----------



## razz

goatchop41 said:


> Just use a set of scales that the keg sits on


Thanks, I did used to do that but now I keep the kegs in the keeser so I don’t have to lift them up and over when they’re full.


----------



## razz

So I ended up getting a set of digital scales from Bunnings for $15 and going back to what I used to do, but I also used the spending valve on the gas out, I managed to fill the spending valve with beer again. So now I'm using both methods of scales and a PET bottle as recommended by Grmblz. I picked up a bag of pale malt this morning and got a couple of the red connectors and a red tee piece.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You are certainly covering your bases razz, what Grmblz suggested is all you should need.
I didn't know Bunnings sold digital scales are they for weighing to 5kg?


----------



## Meddo

Grmblz said:


> Hi razz how about one of these, I tried to post the links but their site is down (no great surprise) I've pulled it apart to make it clear how it works, I'd just use the plastic disconnects, and if using hop pellets I would remove the poppets. That's a 1.25L pet bottle that used to have ginger beer in it. Just shout if it's a bit vague.


Forgive me if this is a silly question but wouldn't it be simpler to have the barb with the line on it at the top of that T-piece so the line doesn't have to bend around the corner? Tackling the big issues today 

Edit: I got one of those T-pieces thrown into my last KL order for no good reason - reckon I've been shown a worthwhile use for it here


----------



## Grmblz

Meddo said:


> Forgive me if this is a silly question but wouldn't it be simpler to have the barb with the line on it at the top of that T-piece so the line doesn't have to bend around the corner? Tackling the big issues today
> 
> Edit: I got one of those T-pieces thrown into my last KL order for no good reason - reckon I've been shown a worthwhile use for it here


Makes no difference other than giving you an extra 30 or 40 mill before the dreaded krausen makes its attack on your spunding gear, tomarto/tomayto really, the way I show it just happens to suit my setup, Vic pointed out that if you are going to leave it connected when you crash chill then the silicon tube should't go to the bottom of the bottle in case it sucks back what's in the bottle, I don't know why you would still have spunding gear attached whilst you crash but it's probably worth a mention, I prefer to have it in the liquid in the bottom of the bottle as it seems to cut down on the amount of froth that can collect in there.
Another BIG issue resolved?


----------



## Vic

Grmblz said:


> Makes no difference other than giving you an extra 30 or 40 mill before the dreaded krausen makes its attack on your spunding gear, tomarto/tomayto really, the way I show it just happens to suit my setup, Vic pointed out that if you are going to leave it connected when you crash chill then the silicon tube should't go to the bottom of the bottle in case it sucks back what's in the bottle, I don't know why you would still have spunding gear attached whilst you crash but it's probably worth a mention, I prefer to have it in the liquid in the bottom of the bottle as it seems to cut down on the amount of froth that can collect in there.
> Another BIG issue resolved?


In my own experience with the tube all the way to the bottom is you get much more foam as the co2 bubbles through any liquid that may be collected. I agree there is no reason to leave the bottle/spunding gear attached during cold crash but I often do. Mostly with lagers, the temp controller is programmed to reduce temp from say 15C to 4C over 28 days and then drop to .5C. I do not have to be there as I often travel. (unfortunately not now due to CV-19). With the short tube nothing gets sucked back in.


----------



## Grmblz

Vic said:


> In my own experience with the tube all the way to the bottom is you get much more foam as the co2 bubbles through any liquid that may be collected. I agree there is no reason to leave the bottle/spunding gear attached during cold crash but I often do. Mostly with lagers, the temp controller is programmed to reduce temp from say 15C to 4C over 28 days and then drop to .5C. I do not have to be there as I often travel. (unfortunately not now due to CV-19). With the short tube nothing gets sucked back in.


Ahaa! Now I understand, have been racking my brain about why on Earth anyone would crash with spunding attached, it's all so obvious now, another day older and wiser.


----------

