# Stone & Wood Pacific Ale



## Shanta

Hello fellow brewers!

I can across this recipe and felt the need to share it on this website and also ask some questions in regards to it.

Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: Extract

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale

Bring
4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.

While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks.

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With this recipe in mind I would like to try to add some grain to this bill can anyone recommend anything or any alterations that you believe might be worth while?

cheers


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## tricache

Have you tried it without changing anything? I'm going to give this one a go I reckon as I have just started dabbling with extracts


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## Shanta

No sorry I haven't yet tried it out. I am meaning too once my current brew gets bottled. I have only just started mixing grain and hops with malt extract so was rather interested if there could be any additional improvements to the recipe. If anything at the moment I might just up the Galaxy hops during the later stages.

Good luck with the brew and I will be interested to hear how it turns out :kooi:


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## Liam_snorkel

Definitely up the hops in the later stages & consider dry hopping if you want it to be closer to the commercial. Have a search of the forums for the all grain clone recipes, because the hopping regimes should be no different for an extract brew. 
Also, if you haven't already bought your hops, get flowers instead of pellets for this brew. Better aroma profile (in my opinion) :beer:


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## Shanta

Liam_snorkel said:


> Definitely up the hops in the later stages & consider dry hopping if you want it to be closer to the commercial. Have a search of the forums for the all grain clone recipes, because the hopping regimes should be no different for an extract brew.
> Also, if you haven't already bought your hops, get flowers instead of pellets for this brew. Better aroma profile (in my opinion) :beer:


Excellent advice thanks Liam!

Would you advise using the flowers in the boil as well as the dry hop or use pellets for the boil and flowers for the dry hop. I was thinking of about 80grams of Galaxy as a Dry hop. I'm a bit of a Hop head haha.

cheers again


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## tricache

I'm assuming less grassy notes with using flowers as opposed to pellets?


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## earle

Shanta said:


> Hello fellow brewers!
> 
> I can across this recipe and felt the need to share it on this website and also ask some questions in regards to it.
> 
> Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale


I thought this recipe looked quite familiar, then realised its my recipe ripped off from here http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10660#p108732 .

Anyhow Shanta, I would suggest you might like to give it a go as is, you will have seen it rates pretty well in this form. I've moved to all-grain now but before that I was using extracts/kits with spec malt and hops, a bit like what you've just moved into and wouldn't consider making a brew without a good whack of each but this one doesn't really need any extra grain as the wheat extract adds some body/flavour that you don't get from normal malt extract.


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## Nick JD

I've found the best way to use Galaxy without having a beer that needs to go sit in the naughty corner for 5 weeks, is to use a lot of galaxy late - eliminate the long boil additions, and for God's sake, if you feel you must dry hop with the stuff, do it for very short periods of time, like 24 hours and then get it the hell out or your beer will taste like a bowl of silage.

The recipe in the OP does exactly this. I wouldn't mess with it except to say that the dry hop IMO would be best popped in there at FG and left for 24 hours before bottling. Galaxy has a bad habit of giving passionfruit initially, and banana skins soon after.


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## Liam_snorkel

Fair enough. I've had success adding Galaxy dry to the fermenter during cold crash, which for me is only a couple of days, then transfer to keg. 

It definitely goes grassy if you dry hop into the keg and leave it in there. (which isn't an option/problem for bottlers)


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## kahlerisms

I thought pellets actually had a stronger aroma profile and were thus better suited for dry hopping?


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## gsouth82

I made this beer 2 weeks ago. It's sitting in the keg at the moment carbonating.
I wanted it a little stronger in flavour and alcohol so made it to 20L.
I'm drinking it this weekend at a buck's so i'll let you know how it goes.


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## Liam_snorkel

the general consensus from threads I've read is pellets for stability & predictability in bittering and flavour profile, flowers for better & less astringent aroma profile. Anecdotally (ie in my limited experience) the bitterness form flowers is less harsh.

Anecdotally again, in one of the S&W recipe threads (can't find it at the moment) someone said they had brewed a clone of this beer several times with pellets and also flowers, and the pellet brews just weren't quite as good.


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## Shanta

gsouth said:


> I made this beer 2 weeks ago. It's sitting in the keg at the moment carbonating.
> I wanted it a little stronger in flavour and alcohol so made it to 20L.
> I'm drinking it this weekend at a buck's so i'll let you know how it goes.


Awesome really interested to hear how it goes, was it a exact copy from the recipe stated above or did you make some alterations?


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## gsouth82

Shanta said:


> Awesome really interested to hear how it goes, was it a exact copy from the recipe stated above or did you make some alterations?


It was pretty much exactly the same however because i was only making 20L and didnt have time to wait for the wort to cool i boiled 2L of water and added around 230g light extract. Pretty much just halved the boil. 
Fermented for 2 weeks and it was done.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Galaxy = grass when dry hopped. I did it once, never again.

Whereas I love it at 10minutes - lots of passionfruit.


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## Rod

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Galaxy = grass when dry hopped. I did it once, never again.
> 
> Whereas I love it at 10minutes - lots of passionfruit.


are you omitting the dry hop addition 

or adding 35 g at 10 minutes


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Rod said:


> are you omitting the dry hop addition
> 
> or adding 35 g at 10 minutes


Check you IBUs from the 35g at 10 minutes and whether that's in line with your tastes. IIRC - S&W is only abut the low 20's IBU, so not likely to increase the 10 minute addition by all that much.

Alternatively, swap the dry hopped Galaxy for Dry hopped something else (citra, cascade, amarillo, simcoe are all fruity - though Citra does give passionfruit (similar to galaxy). 

Mosaic I've been told is similar to citra and galaxy (ie passionfruit), but I'm not sure of its dry hopping credentials as I've not (yet) used it - though I will once I'm brewing again.

EEs ansa qwestchun?

Goomba


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## kyby

I have made 3 brews very simmilar to this recipe using Galaxy and it is a very powerful hop, All mine have turned out more bitter than i wanted and I have cut the hops back each time. The last recipe I cooled to 26deg within about 6 minutes of flame out.
I always use flowers or plugs if possible. I would cut the 20 minute adition back to 8 if you are using flowers.


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## gsouth82

Shanta said:


> Awesome really interested to hear how it goes


OK, tasted it last night to check the carbonation and i am super happy with it! Bloody delicious if you ask me. Quite a bit of hop flavour and aroma. Its great made to 20L but i think would be equally delicious made to 23L


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## RJB510

Hey guys.
I'm going to have a go at making something similar to this tonight or on the weekend. it's not going to be a clone persay but will use galaxy hops and go close imo.
My question is on the hop additions. I'm aiming for IBU of mid to low 20's using similar boil times as above and final addition of about 1g per litre. I'm using pellets.
My question is when to add the last addition.
You all say dry hoping is bad with these hops. So should it be best to add them at:
1. Flameout.
2. When in the fermenter at start of fermentation.
3. As my brew shop suggested, add to the fermenter after peak of fermentation and prior to bottling.
Vote now!
Also, will adding all hops from the break add any unwanted or adverse tastes. I've never really bothered with separating in the past with no problems but never used galaxy hops before.
Thanks


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## RJB510

I mean dry hopping for too long. Not in general.


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## Pickaxe

I've been toying with trying to make something like this. I was more leaning to
20L batch
2 can Morgans extra pale (or as 1 extra pale with 1 wheat).
25gm Galaxy 15 minutes 22IBUs
20g Dry Hop

Will take on board peoples comments about dry hop. I was gonna hit it after krausen, but considering the comments. I know there's some wheat content, but thinking 2 extra pale cans would give that uber light colour. (I have some caramel wheat which I toyed with hitting 250gms with, but its not the right flavour.)

There is defintely a grassy hint to the S&W, albeit very subtle.


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## Blitzer

I've dry hopped with Galaxy, left it for 4 days and it came out fine. No grassy notes.


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## RJB510

After krausen was what I was thinking. beabout 4 days before bottling at that stage . it will have more alcohol to dissolve the pellets, disperse the flavor and aroma. won't escape out of the airlock as much as when it's peak of co2 in fermentation and chance of infection is slim.
open to hear what others think.
I'm using 1kg wheat malt. 1kg light malt. 500g Amber malt and 500 dextrose. Slightly darker colour more what I want and slightly different flavor. Otherwise it's the same. No kit for me, all extract and no extra grains.


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## krausenhaus

I dry hopped with Galaxy at around 3.5g/L for a S&W clone and it was magical. I used flowers though, and have had less success dry hopping with Galaxy pellets.

Basically I let if ferment for a week, then put half the hops in a hop bag with a weight, tied some fishing line on it and lowered into the fermenter. Pulled it out after 2-3 days and then repeated with the second half.

That was only my second or third brew though, I would probably be more likely to do something like half during end of ferment and then the second lot during cold conditioning maybe.


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## RJB510

wasn't too overpowering like that? I'd imagine the aroma would kick you hard in the face!
why the stepped approach? why not all at once?


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## krausenhaus

RJB510 said:


> wasn't too overpowering like that? I'd imagine the aroma would kick you hard in the face!
> why the stepped approach? why not all at once?


I thought it was about the same level of aroma as a stubby of Pacific Ale, but may be overpowering for some.

The idea of splitting up the hop additions is to avoid grassy notes by dry hopping too much for too long. I usually do it for anything that I dry hop with 3g/L or over (i.e. IPAs).. whether it's actually necessary every time I don't know, but I would prefer to spend a little bit of time dicking around hoisting out hop bags than ending up with a beer that tastes like a wheatgrass shot.


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## rick1111082

I can't wait to try earles s&w pacific ale recipie it will be 2 weeks since I put it down on Monday. Crash chill and bottle on Friday. Don't think I will be able to wait the usual month to try it though!!!??


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## Shanta

Galaxy is defiantly the go for this one. I actually added 50g of Galaxy flowers to the brew 4 days before bottling it. It had turned out amazing and the aroma and flavour is powerful, just the way I like it being the hop head I am. In previous methods of dry hopping I have noticed that I have lost a bit of the aroma through the airlock so I now dry hop later than earlier.


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## Mitcho89

Hey fella's how are we?

I'm looking to knock this badboy out as I've never actually done an extract brew (I went straight from K&K to all-grain) so I thought I'd do this for sh!ts and giggles. As for the IBU target for this beer of around 20, I punched in all the nessessary data into Beersmith and with those quanties of hop at that boil duration, the total IBU was going to sit at 13 or so. I used the IBU toggle and brought it up to 20 and saw that the hop weight increased by 5g on all 3 additions.

I'm just looking to find out if it's worth keeping the recipe as it is or to go for the IBU target stated?

Cheers,
Mitch.


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## Pickaxe

To be honest, I think I've read the IBU target for this beer is about 16 or 18. Could be wrong, but she's pretty light on. I made a beer the missus dubbed Passiona that was 11IBU by Beersmith due to shortening a boil. Was bloody delicious. Reckon it was far off S&W, just lacked a bit of bitterness. I think your hop schedule looks good. Mind you, I'm just about to put an AG down that is 20g 15, 20g 10, 30g 0, & 20g dry hop 5 days, just to get a bit more punch.


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## Scottye

I really should have a go at that original recipe, except that I love the one that I amped up a bit. Had a crack at it twice, and both times I dry hopped for two weeks plus. I have the passionfruit and I have been lucky enough not to get the Banana skins that Nick speaks of. Both times my hop schedule (pellets) was 20G @ 40mins, 15g @ 25, 15g @ 10 all in a 6l boil. The first batch was dry hopped with only 10g while the 2nd was 15 g, both were 21 litres with 1.5 kg LME and 1.5kg WME. threw in 250g of spec grains for good measure.


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## donttouchstevesbeer

I did on the other week and i tasted it the other day after 2 weeks in the bottle. i thought it needed more hops but i havnt drank it side by side with the original.
I am currently doing take 2 with a different boil but it made a bloody great beer anyway.
my recipe was:
2 cans coopers light
250g wheat malt - 20mins at 70 degrees then strained into fermenter
50g galaxy 30g - 25mins 10g - 10 mins later and 10g at flameout.
yeast us 05.


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## earle

Mitcho89 said:


> Hey fella's how are we?
> I'm looking to knock this badboy out as I've never actually done an extract brew (I went straight from K&K to all-grain) so I thought I'd do this for sh!ts and giggles. As for the IBU target for this beer of around 20, I punched in all the nessessary data into Beersmith and with those quanties of hop at that boil duration, the total IBU was going to sit at 13 or so. I used the IBU toggle and brought it up to 20 and saw that the hop weight increased by 5g on all 3 additions.
> 
> I'm just looking to find out if it's worth keeping the recipe as it is or to go for the IBU target stated?
> Cheers,
> Mitch.


Hi Mitch,
The recipe in the original post is actually mine and was prepared in beersmith. I'm not sure why you're getting a different ibu. Sometimes beersmith is a bit funny for kit and extract brews. If you post your your recipe from beersmith maybe I can see where the difference is coming from.

Cheers
Earle


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## Khellendros13

earle said:


> Hi Mitch,
> The recipe in the original post is actually mine and was prepared in beersmith. I'm not sure why you're getting a different ibu. Sometimes beersmith is a bit funny for kit and extract brews. If you post your your recipe from beersmith maybe I can see where the difference is coming from.
> 
> Cheers
> Earle


If you both punch in the harvest %AA, and use different boil volumes, the IBU will be different. Maybe that is why.


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## menoetes

I've just started drinking S&W's Pacific Ale recently after discovering it on tap at my local. I couldn't believe the passion fruit taste it had. I loved it and thought they had either added the fruit itself or used a Belgium saison yeast. So that taste comes from the Galaxy hops? Good to know, I'll be sure to pick some up as I have just started using my own hops in my kit + bits brewing.

Would a galaxy pale ale (such as the fresh wort kits I can buy at my LHBS) have a similar taste then?


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## msabell

Hi guys, sorry for the noob questions here but I have been chasing Stone & Wood Pacific Ale for ages, can't buy it where I live (nearest is Dan Murphy's 2 hours away and don't think they have it in stock) and I stumbled across this post.

I've never homebrewed before, is this an easy one to make? Or more advanced?

Also what are the costs and where can I buy the Coopers stuff, aside from online? Is it available in supermarkets etc?

Would appreciate a reply, thanks heaps.

Michael


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## Fred_the_Big_Cat

Hi msabell

S&W PA is a lovely beer, I first had it on tap while travelling through Byron Bay and later got hold of a six pack from a bottle shop - don't remember if it was Dan Murphy's or not.

I agree with menoetes comment above and couldn't believe the passionfruit notes. Better on tap but the bottled stuff is close.

I would strongly recommend that you do not buy the Coopers extracts from a supermarket - they are almost always old stock and very rarely will you find the Coopers premium extracts in a supermarket.

If you can't get to a specialist brew shop for your supplies, go the online root and they may be cheaper anyway if you shop around. But I always enjoy going to my local brew shop to buy my stuff and have a chat about making various brews.

If you don't have your brewing kit, it will cost you about $80 for the fermenter, hydrometer, steriliser and other essential odds and bobs. You can buy the additional stuff as you go.

For the brew ingredients, for similar that I have purchased from my local brew shop, it will cost you between $40 and $48 which will give you 23 litres at start of fermentation - and about 58 - 60 x 375 ml stubbies at the end after you have racked your brew once and left the gunk in the bottom of the fermenter at the end. For your first brew, I would also recommend that you follow the recipe exactly and do not skimp on the ingredients including the specialist yeast - they may a big difference and a good success at the start means that you are more likely to continue with the home brewing.

The recipe would be good one to kick off with - looks fairly simple to me and I am only up to my 9th kit and bits brews

Hope this helps

Cheers
Fred


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## indica86

Coopers stuff online (from Coopers) is well priced and they offer discounted to free delivery at times, plus a members discount.


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## menoetes

Hey Msabell,

Welcome, brewing isn't hard but like any new hobby you might stumble a few times along the way to making really nice beer. The equipment you need is most likely available from your local kmart or big W, or from coopers as Indica said or even check ebay and gumtree to see if someone in your area is selling off their old equipment cheap.

Stone and Wood Pacific Ale is one of my favourite beers too. SInce my post here last year I have made a few clone/copy beers and have come really close to the taste of the real thing. It's actually an easy beer to copy, for instance, here is a super simple (and affordable) list of ingrediants to make 23 liters (just over 2 cartons) of something that tastes pretty close to it at home.

1 x coopers lager kit (not the european lager kit just the plain lager kit) - $12.95
1 x 1.5kg tin of coopers liquid wheat malt (or 1kg of Dry light malt) - $11.00
50g of Galaxy hops (you can get 110g bags off hop dealz aust. for $6.60) - $03.30
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Total $27.25
Postage for all this stuff online $20.00

So you can see that postage is almost as much as the ingrediants themselves, so if you have a way of getting to a local homebrew shop (your nearest HBS is in Sale I think) you will be able to cut postage off of that price list. Mind you some kmarts and Big W's (and the odd woolworths) stock the lager kits and maybe even the dry malt as well as the brewing equipment.

It gives you an idea of how cheap homebrewing can be after the initial small outlay for equipment and this is just the simplest way of making it I know of. In time a novice brewer could try a slightly more complicated recipe with steeped grains and a better strain of yeast, that would get them even closer to the taste of the real thing.

That and brewing is just a great manly hobby


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## Shanta

I'm thinking of stepping some grain to this bill, say 500g in total - 250g Carapils & 250g Crystal. Could this be a bit of an overkill or would it be a nice addition to the flavour and head retention?


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## indica86

500g of crystal type grains is too much.
250g would be the go.


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## menoetes

I just use the carapils, I don't detect any crystal flavors in S&W Pacific Ale and the color is super pale. I could be wrong though, you could try some crystal and see how you go.


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## Xander

Shanta said:


> Hello fellow brewers!
> 
> I can across this recipe and felt the need to share it on this website and also ask some questions in regards to it.
> 
> Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
> Style: American Pale Ale
> TYPE: Extract
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
> Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
> 15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
> 20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale
> 
> Bring
> 4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.
> 
> While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> With this recipe in mind I would like to try to add some grain to this bill can anyone recommend anything or any alterations that you believe might be worth while?
> 
> cheers


New Brewer here - Is it possible to use variations of the malt extract? ie - Mangrove Jacks or Black Rock? Will this make much difference to the end result?

Thanks for your help and the recipe! Hoping to brew this on Saturday.

Cheers


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## earle

Hi Xander,

This is actually my recipe that was copied from another site. just use whatever brand malt extract that is available to you. Try to get light extract if you can to get a closer colour to the original. Also check the best-before's on the tins to try to get the freshest extract you can.

Cheers, Earle


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## Xander

earle said:


> Hi Xander,
> 
> This is actually my recipe that was copied from another site. just use whatever brand malt extract that is available to you. Try to get light extract if you can to get a closer colour to the original. Also check the best-before's on the tins to try to get the freshest extract you can.
> 
> Cheers, Earle


Thanks Earle.

Did you have any success in adding any grain or any other variations, or is it best as it is?

Also - I've read some comments about galaxy pellets leaving a "grassy" note. Did this happen to you at all? At what stage did you dry hop and for how long?

Thanks again.


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## Nizmoose

Xander said:


> New Brewer here - Is it possible to use variations of the malt extract? ie - Mangrove Jacks or Black Rock? Will this make much difference to the end result?
> 
> Thanks for your help and the recipe! Hoping to brew this on Saturday.
> 
> Cheers


Any light and wheat will do but I'd definitely recommend Briess Liquid or Dry extract, either their golden light or pilsen would work but probably golden light. Any extract that is light will work though. 

Re the grassy notes, galaxy usually only gives a grassy note if dry hopped too long so yoou shouldn't have to worry about it. Galaxy can also give off some harsh bitterness if boiled too long, some people say this occurs past 20 minutes but I keep galaxy additions to 15 minutes or less and get nothing but fruity goodness, the guys at stone and wood use late additions and supposedly a ton of dry hopping but I've gotten good results without the dry hop component


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## Xander

Nizmoose said:


> Any light and wheat will do but I'd definitely recommend Briess Liquid or Dry extract, either their golden light or pilsen would work but probably golden light. Any extract that is light will work though.
> 
> Re the grassy notes, galaxy usually only gives a grassy note if dry hopped too long so yoou shouldn't have to worry about it. Galaxy can also give off some harsh bitterness if boiled too long, some people say this occurs past 20 minutes but I keep galaxy additions to 15 minutes or less and get nothing but fruity goodness, the guys at stone and wood use late additions and supposedly a ton of dry hopping but I've gotten good results without the dry hop component


Thanks Moose - I just read on Stone & wood site, that they dry hop after fermentation - http://stoneandwood.com.au/beers/pacific-ale/

How long would you suggest you leave the hops in for once you reach FG?


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## Nizmoose

Xander said:


> Thanks Moose - I just read on Stone & wood site, that they dry hop after fermentation - http://stoneandwood.com.au/beers/pacific-ale/
> 
> How long would you suggest you leave the hops in for once you reach FG?


some people say no longer than a week and other more like 3-5 days, I think 3 days is reasonable perhaps 4 but you should get all the aroma you're after in that time. Then off to cold crash and bottle. Some pro brewers actually recommend you do your cold crash before dry hopping, so if it reaches FG you could dry hop then put the fermenter into the fridge for 3 or 4 days then bottle, if youre not cold crashing then just chuck the hops in, wait three or four days then bottle


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## menoetes

Nizmoose said:


> Any light and wheat will do but I'd definitely recommend Briess Liquid or Dry extract, either their golden light or pilsen would work but probably golden light. Any extract that is light will work though.
> 
> Re the grassy notes, galaxy usually only gives a grassy note if dry hopped too long so yoou shouldn't have to worry about it. Galaxy can also give off some harsh bitterness if boiled too long, some people say this occurs past 20 minutes but I keep galaxy additions to 15 minutes or less and get nothing but fruity goodness, the guys at stone and wood use late additions and supposedly a ton of dry hopping but I've gotten good results without the dry hop component


2nded on all accounts. Pilsen malt extract (if you can get it) and wheat is the ideal combo IMHO but light and wheat will be fine otherwise. If you wanted to steep some grains you could go 250g of carapils to give it a little body and that fresh grain flavor. If you are worried about the harsh bitterness of the galaxy at 20 min why not try this;

30g of cascade @ 15min
30g of Galaxy @ 5min
15g of Galaxy - dry hopped once SG drops below 1.020 for 4 - 5 days.

I've done pretty much that and it turns out to be a cracker of a beer that's damn close to the real thing. The Passionfruit flavor of the galaxy is hugely dominant with the milder floral notes of the cascade in the background backing it up. You'd hardly know the cascade was there except for the smoother bitterness.

Loads of aroma from the 15g dry hop too, after 3 weeks you crack the bottle you can't miss that S&W smell.


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## Xander

menoetes said:


> 2nded on all accounts. Pilsen malt extract (if you can get it) and wheat is the ideal combo IMHO but light and wheat will be fine otherwise. If you wanted to steep some grains you could go 250g of carapils to give it a little body and that fresh grain flavor. If you are worried about the harsh bitterness of the galaxy at 20 min why not try this;
> 
> 30g of cascade @ 15min
> 30g of Galaxy @ 5min
> 15g of Galaxy - dry hopped once SG drops below 1.020 for 4 - 5 days.
> 
> I've done pretty much that and it turns out to be a cracker of a beer that's damn close to the real thing. The Passionfruit flavor of the galaxy is hugely dominant with the milder floral notes of the cascade in the background backing it up. You'd hardly know the cascade was there except for the smoother bitterness.
> 
> Loads of aroma from the 15g dry hop too, after 3 weeks you crack the bottle you can't miss that S&W smell.


Awesome! That's a lot for that!

Cheers


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## Tasspark

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Galaxy = grass when dry hopped. I did it once, never again.
> 
> Whereas I love it at 10minutes - lots of passionfruit.


Ive just finished putting a batch of Coopers lager in my FV.
I wanted to try something different, but not too boring, so I added 1kg of Dex, 250g of light wheat spraymalt that I had left over and I steeped 10g of Galaxy finishing hops (tea bag) in 300mls of water and added to the wort (bag and all) before I pitched the Saflager S-23 yeast.
should I not have done this with Galaxy?


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## slcmorro

This is my clone, AG.

Everyone who's tried it alongside the commercial, can't taste the different other than the freshness. Not a horn blow, just the feedback I've received.

*Boulders and Tinder* (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.047 (°P): 11.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.62 %
Colour (SRM): 4.1 (EBC): 8.1
Bitterness (IBU): 21.3 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

59.57% Pale Ale Malt
38.3% Wheat Malt
2.13% Carapils (Dextrine)

0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

0.2 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05

Dry hop with 60 grams on Day 7.


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Hey All

I threw this one down on Saturday 3rd January and started noticing some weird rubbery off tastes after a couple of days. I started thinking yeast autolysis, but kept it going and dry-hopped on Sunday 10th January with 15g of Galaxy. After reading up a bit about autolysis it seems it would be such a vile taste/smell that I couldn't even get near it. I tasted it yesterday and the rubbery taste has just about vanished, but I can barely detect any Galaxy taste, and no aroma even after dry-hopping.

I followed the recipe below:

_Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: Extract

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale

Bring
4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.

While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks._

The only thing I can think affected it was that I re-hydrated the US05 in warm water and then pitched into the 18C fermenter after stirring vigorously to aerate the wort. Maybe I've done something to the yeast when re-hydrating? I usually just sprinkle from the packet and forget it, but I thought as I'd bought the better yeast I should put in a bit more effort. I followed the rest of this recipe to the letter.

Anyone had this issue with this recipe?

Unfortunately I didn't take any hydro samples as I dropped my hydrometer the day before putting the brew down and smashed it. I'm going to cold crash tonight and keg it on Saturday night so we'll see how it goes. If it still has a weak flavour by then I might just smash it with the remaining galaxy pellets in the freezer...


----------



## burrster

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Hey All
> 
> I threw this one down on Saturday 3rd January and started noticing some weird rubbery off tastes after a couple of days. I started thinking yeast autolysis, but kept it going and dry-hopped on Sunday 10th January with 15g of Galaxy. After reading up a bit about autolysis it seems it would be such a vile taste/smell that I couldn't even get near it. I tasted it yesterday and the rubbery taste has just about vanished, but I can barely detect any Galaxy taste, and no aroma even after dry-hopping.
> 
> I followed the recipe below:
> 
> _Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
> Style: American Pale Ale
> TYPE: Extract
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
> Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
> 15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
> 20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale
> 
> Bring
> 4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.
> 
> While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks._
> 
> The only thing I can think affected it was that I re-hydrated the US05 in warm water and then pitched into the 18C fermenter after stirring vigorously to aerate the wort. Maybe I've done something to the yeast when re-hydrating? I usually just sprinkle from the packet and forget it, but I thought as I'd bought the better yeast I should put in a bit more effort. I followed the rest of this recipe to the letter.
> 
> Anyone had this issue with this recipe?
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't take any hydro samples as I dropped my hydrometer the day before putting the brew down and smashed it. I'm going to cold crash tonight and keg it on Saturday night so we'll see how it goes. If it still has a weak flavour by then I might just smash it with the remaining galaxy pellets in the freezer...


I did a similar recipe not so long ago (1 week bottle conditioning so far) I had no such issues. My only thought so far is to ask, did you get your water from a garden hose, or different source to normal. I can tell you ( luckily I'VE not done it) water from a garden hose can kill any beer(rubber flavour), or did you store your water in a new container before adding it to your ferementer?


----------



## Pistolpete01

slcmorro said:


> This is my clone, AG.
> 
> Everyone who's tried it alongside the commercial, can't taste the different other than the freshness. Not a horn blow, just the feedback I've received.
> 
> *Boulders and Tinder* (American Pale Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.047 (°P): 11.7
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
> Alcohol (ABV): 4.62 %
> Colour (SRM): 4.1 (EBC): 8.1
> Bitterness (IBU): 21.3 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
> 
> 59.57% Pale Ale Malt
> 38.3% Wheat Malt
> 2.13% Carapils (Dextrine)
> 
> 0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
> 0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
> 
> 0.2 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
> 
> Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
> 
> Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05
> 
> Dry hop with 60 grams on Day 7.
> 
> 
> Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


Awesome!, I was struggling to think of what to brew this weekend and I rekon this might be it.

Is the 0 minute addition Cube or Whirlpool hops? Flowers or pellets?

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## Nizmoose

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Hey All
> 
> I threw this one down on Saturday 3rd January and started noticing some weird rubbery off tastes after a couple of days. I started thinking yeast autolysis, but kept it going and dry-hopped on Sunday 10th January with 15g of Galaxy. After reading up a bit about autolysis it seems it would be such a vile taste/smell that I couldn't even get near it. I tasted it yesterday and the rubbery taste has just about vanished, but I can barely detect any Galaxy taste, and no aroma even after dry-hopping.
> 
> I followed the recipe below:
> 
> _Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
> Style: American Pale Ale
> TYPE: Extract
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
> Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
> 15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
> 20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale
> 
> Bring
> 4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.
> 
> While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks._
> 
> The only thing I can think affected it was that I re-hydrated the US05 in warm water and then pitched into the 18C fermenter after stirring vigorously to aerate the wort. Maybe I've done something to the yeast when re-hydrating? I usually just sprinkle from the packet and forget it, but I thought as I'd bought the better yeast I should put in a bit more effort. I followed the rest of this recipe to the letter.
> 
> Anyone had this issue with this recipe?
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't take any hydro samples as I dropped my hydrometer the day before putting the brew down and smashed it. I'm going to cold crash tonight and keg it on Saturday night so we'll see how it goes. If it still has a weak flavour by then I might just smash it with the remaining galaxy pellets in the freezer...


I'm going to guess your lack of aroma is from your addition timing, 20 minutes is going to produce a bit of a harsh bitterness in the flavour from galaxy and isn't going to give you the nice fruity flavour, then your 10 and 0 minute additions aren't big enough, I'd double your zero minute, keep the ten and do at least 20g at 5 minutes at a rough guess


----------



## Moad

slcmorro said:


> This is my clone, AG.Everyone who's tried it alongside the commercial, can't taste the different other than the freshness. Not a horn blow, just the feedback I've received. *Boulders and Tinder* (American Pale Ale) Original Gravity (OG): 1.047 (°P): 11.7Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1Alcohol (ABV): 4.62 %Colour (SRM): 4.1 (EBC): 8.1Bitterness (IBU): 21.3 (Average - No Chill Adjusted) 59.57% Pale Ale Malt38.3% Wheat Malt2.13% Carapils (Dextrine) 0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) 0.2 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil) Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes Fermented at 18°C with Safale US-05Dry hop with 60 grams on Day 7. Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*



What's your dry hop as g/L? Or what size batch is that?


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

burrster said:


> I did a similar recipe not so long ago (1 week bottle conditioning so far) I had no such issues. My only thought so far is to ask, did you get your water from a garden hose, or different source to normal. I can tell you ( luckily I'VE not done it) water from a garden hose can kill any beer(rubber flavour), or did you store your water in a new container before adding it to your ferementer?


Straight out of the tap and used one of the empty extract tins to fill up the fermenter. I've had this rubbery flavour before when I've left a fermenter for too long in the garage, but this has been in a temp controlled fridge since day one.

Will see how it goes after cold crash.


----------



## slcmorro

Pistolpete01 said:


> Awesome!, I was struggling to think of what to brew this weekend and I rekon this might be it.
> 
> Is the 0 minute addition Cube or Whirlpool hops? Flowers or pellets?
> 
> Cheers,
> Pete


0 minutes is flameout, and I also dry hopped with 60gm on Day7. All pellets mate.

Doesn't matter what size batch, as the percentages and G/pl remain the same. FWIW though, I made 23L with 2.8kg Pale, 1.8kg Wheat and 100gm Dextrine - 10gm Galaxy @ 30, 10gm Galaxy @ 0, 60gm Galaxy dry.


----------



## Nizmoose

slcmorro said:


> 0 minutes is flameout, and I also dry hopped with 60gm on Day7. All pellets mate.
> 
> Doesn't matter what size batch, as the percentages and G/pl remain the same. FWIW though, I made 23L with 2.8kg Pale, 1.8kg Wheat and 100gm Dextrine - 10gm Galaxy @ 30, 10gm Galaxy @ 0, 60gm Galaxy dry.


Your volume matters for the dry hop because you said g/L for all additions then 60g dry hop which we're assuming isn't 60g/l?


----------



## slcmorro

If you go back and read post #53, you'll see quite clearly where I wrote 'Dry hop with 60gm on day 7'. The only time g/L is mentioned is in the kettle additions at specified times in the exported recipe. Either way, the answer is known now.


----------



## Moad

slcmorro said:


> If you go back and read post #53, you'll see quite clearly where I wrote 'Dry hop with 60gm on day 7'. The only time g/L is mentioned is in the kettle additions at specified times in the exported recipe. Either way, the answer is known now.



Thanks mate.

So dry hop about 3g/l...

A 60g dry hop in 1000L is very different to 60g in 20. 

I'll give this recipe a try since I have 500g of galaxy to use up!


----------



## slcmorro

Hold onto some of that Galaxy very tightly. It's apparently going to be a be a valuable commodity if rumours are anything to go by. Let me know what you think of the finished beer.


----------



## slcmorro

Ah yes, and I see the point about about g/L now. Makes perfect sense. Pprbably shouldn't post first thing in the morning while fasted for a procedure. No coffee makes me something something.


----------



## Matplat

Righto, another new guy here!

I saw this recipe and got pretty excited, as S&W is deee-licious! Then I found out I couldn't get galaxy hops... 

Anyway, I had also been looking at the Cascarillo Amber ale recipe on the Coopers DIY website which uses, yep, you guessed it Cascade and Amarillo!

I saw the few previous posts about mixing in some Cascade so thought I would give it a whirl, but I really like the sound of galaxy passionfruit, so I decided to substitute Citra to get those fruity flavours going, and while I was at it I ordered some Amarillo too.

So I have 50g of Cascade, Amarillo and Citra on order!

As I am a newbie (getting carried away), I'd be keen for any thoughts/recommendations on a hopping schedule, assuming I follow the rest of this recipe.

Cheers, Matt


----------



## menoetes

Hey Mayplat,

Are you looking at doing a kit & bits recipe or extract or all grain? I've done a couple of kit clones of the Pacificale as well as one or two extract/partials. I've got some galaxy in the freezer and will be making my first All Grain version of it this weekend.

It's a shame you can't get your hands on the galaxy but a citra + cascade mix will turn out a real nice beer, though it won't be anything like the S&W Pacificale. Without galaxy hops there's just no getting around that. :unsure:

Let us know how you brew though and one of us should be able to help you out with a pretty good recipe along similar lines.


----------



## Matplat

Yeah I've just put down my first Coopers Pale Ale kit... but aiming higher at unhopped extract brewing . I was looking at that recipe generator spreadsheet and to get closer to an APA style it was telling me to add an extra 0.5kg LDME on top of the two cans of LME....?


----------



## burrster

Matplat said:


> Yeah I've just put down my first Coopers Pale Ale kit... but aiming higher at unhopped extract brewing . I was looking at that recipe generator spreadsheet and to get closer to an APA style it was telling me to add an extra 0.5kg LDME on top of the two cans of LME....?


Yep that's right. If your aiming for around 5% in 23L then that's what you need. I often use one 'can' of liquid extract and then use dry extract to make up the difference. I do this because When doing my boil for the hops I need roughly 800g of dry extract ( or 1000g of liquid) to get the gravity correct for my 8L boil, and its far easier(and less messy) measuring dry extract. So a typical recipe might have a can of liquid(1.5kg), and 1.5kg of dry extract to get about 5% in 23L.


----------



## Matplat

This is my recipe so far,

The only things i'm not sure about are whether the boil volume includes the LDME, and when to add the LME tins.

I also don't understand the hop concentration factor, and whether to use it or not. It changes the position of the recipe on the chart fairly wildly.

Cheers, Matt


----------



## NewtownClown

It means add 533 grams of DME to 5 litres of water - this gives you a wort of approx 1.040 SG which is good for hop utilisation - and bring to the boil.
Use the HCF, adjusting the boil volume will alter the amount of malt required to hit the above figure and you will notice a difference in hop utilisation, resulting in a change in IBU. Better hop utilisation = less hops required.

Your hop additions are all made in the boil which can be strained at flameout and the hot liquid used to dissolve your LME's and remaining malt in the fermenter or it can be cooled in an ice bath (covered) and carefully poured, to leave the kettle trub behind, into the malts already mixed and dissolved in the fermenter.

Of course, if you have the capacity, you can just dissolve the malts directly in the kettle at the end of the boil and strain/decant into the fermenter, but the sugars caught in the trub (hops and break) will be highly concentrated as opposed to what remains if straining/decanting a ~1.040 wort.

As per your recipe, I personally would be adding another 10 IBU if, in fact, an APA is what you wish to create. As the spreadsheet indicates in column N, you IBU is LOW, meaning it is less than the minimum specified in the Style Guidlines. As is also indicated in the graph. The blue box is an illustration of the Gudline specs for a particular style. Your recipe leans more to the malty (sweet) side than is appropriate for an APA.


----------



## Matplat

NewtownClown said:


> It means add 533 grams of DME to 5 litres of water - this gives you a wort of approx 1.040 SG which is good for hop utilisation - and bring to the boil.
> Use the HCF, adjusting the boil volume will alter the amount of malt required to hit the above figure and you will notice a difference in hop utilisation, resulting in a change in IBU. Better hop utilisation = less hops required.
> 
> Your hop additions are all made in the boil which can be strained at flameout and the hot liquid used to dissolve your LME's and remaining malt in the fermenter or it can be cooled in an ice bath (covered) and carefully poured, to leave the kettle trub behind, into the malts already mixed and dissolved in the fermenter.
> 
> Of course, if you have the capacity, you can just dissolve the malts directly in the kettle at the end of the boil and strain/decant into the fermenter, but the sugars caught in the trub (hops and break) will be highly concentrated as opposed to what remains if straining/decanting a ~1.040 wort.
> 
> As per your recipe, I personally would be adding another 10 IBU if, in fact, an APA is what you wish to create. As the spreadsheet indicates in column N, you IBU is LOW, meaning it is less than the minimum specified in the Style Guidlines. As is also indicated in the graph. The blue box is an illustration of the Gudline specs for a particular style. Your recipe leans more to the malty (sweet) side than is appropriate for an APA.


Thanks for that detailed response!

I have re-jigged quantites to suit both the equipment I have, and inventory that I have, and that I don't want to up the IBU too much just out of personal preference.

So I will boil 4L in my 5L pot, add 427g DME, re-boil, 30 min boil with hop additions, rest of DME + Dex at flame out.

Chill wort in ice bath down to 21deg, pour it through the colander into the fermenter, dissolve LME tins in fermenter, top up with cool boiled water then pitch the yeast and stick it in the fridge at 18 deg.

Sound about right?

By the way I apologise for the thread hijack.... wasn't intentional!


----------



## NewtownClown

No problem.
Sounds _almost _right.
Just dissolve the required DME in warm water (I have found it mixes in better than hot/boiling water) and bring that to the boil for your hopping. No need to boil the water first.

You need some heat to mix the remaining DME and the LME, so put those in the fermenter with as little hot water as needed before adding the chilled wort and topping up.

A 4 litre boil in a 5 litre pot could be precarious. You may get a boil over without a lot of attention. Especially when the hops are added, they act as nucleation sites and cause foaming. Keep a spray bottle of cold water handy and spray the foam as it threatens to climb out of the kettle and briefly pull the pot from the heat as each hop addition is made, stirring as you do so.


----------



## Bob_Loblaw

Bob_Loblaw said:


> Hey All
> 
> I threw this one down on Saturday 3rd January and started noticing some weird rubbery off tastes after a couple of days. I started thinking yeast autolysis, but kept it going and dry-hopped on Sunday 10th January with 15g of Galaxy. After reading up a bit about autolysis it seems it would be such a vile taste/smell that I couldn't even get near it. I tasted it yesterday and the rubbery taste has just about vanished, but I can barely detect any Galaxy taste, and no aroma even after dry-hopping.
> 
> I followed the recipe below:
> 
> _Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
> Style: American Pale Ale
> TYPE: Extract
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
> Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
> 15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
> 20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale
> 
> Bring
> 4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.
> 
> While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks._
> 
> The only thing I can think affected it was that I re-hydrated the US05 in warm water and then pitched into the 18C fermenter after stirring vigorously to aerate the wort. Maybe I've done something to the yeast when re-hydrating? I usually just sprinkle from the packet and forget it, but I thought as I'd bought the better yeast I should put in a bit more effort. I followed the rest of this recipe to the letter.
> 
> Anyone had this issue with this recipe?
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't take any hydro samples as I dropped my hydrometer the day before putting the brew down and smashed it. I'm going to cold crash tonight and keg it on Saturday night so we'll see how it goes. If it still has a weak flavour by then I might just smash it with the remaining galaxy pellets in the freezer...



UPDATE.

So after dry-hopping and cold crashing for a full week, the rubbery off taste was still present. I kegged it and gassed it up hoping that might make a difference to no avail. The S&W fruitiness is not there and it tastes like water out of a rubber tube. The only thing I can think of is that I've done something to the yeast when I re-hydrated it in warm water (maybe too warm) and this has tainted the beer.

Anyway, I'm going to try it again and alter the hop schedule a bit to have more galaxy going in later in the boil. This time I'm just going to sprinkle the dried yeast on top after stirring vigourously.


----------



## Matplat

So I finally put down my above recipe last night after having to wait an agonising 2 weeks for the hops to arrive! The seller ended up having to re-send the package, due to auspost eff-up!

All went pretty well I think, I got the wort down to about 27deg within about 20 mins before tipping into the FV, and having my pre-boiled/cooled water sitting at 10deg in the fermentation fridge meant that after dissolving all tins etc in the FV and topping up, temp was perfect at around 17deg for pitching. Straight into the fermenting fridge set at 20 deg.

The only thing that wasn't great was the amount of boil-off during the boil, I reckon I would have lost at least 1litre if not 1.5! I don't know what you can do about that, as I'm aware that leaving the lid on is a no-no. Also I think I put too much Dextrose in (0.4kg), I am concerned that the ABV will be get too high and ferment will stall, but we shall see how the sachet of s-04 yeast handles it. OG came out almost spot on at 1.052 compared with 1.055 predicted.

I could smell the spent hops in the bin this morning.... seriously a bin has never smelt that good! I reckon Citra could go pretty close to the galaxy aroma, because S&W was the beer I immediately thought of when I smelled the hops....


----------



## Matplat

Oh yeah, this was my final version of the recipe, I changed the hop additions slightly to get the most out of the bittering properties of the citra....


----------



## Nizmoose

1.5L boil off sounds bang on to me! Giving a pacific ale recipe a go tomorrow morning will post here during!


----------



## Matplat

So my brew has been in the fermenter for 6 days now... And I just opened it up to add 25g Amarillo dry hop and then take hydro sample.

OG was 1.052 and so far it has only reached 1.030. Does that sound right, I've read people saying they've nearly reached FG in 5 days sometimes.... So I was expecting to be a bit closer than 1.030? There is still good air-lock action and I dropped the temp to ferment at 17-18 after reading a bit more about S-04 which would have slowed things down a bit, and I only sprinkled the yeast on instead of re-hydrating, so I may be worrying about nothing.... but just wondered peoples thoughts on it all?

Cheers, Matt


----------



## Matplat

The other thing about it was the hydro sample tasted awesome!!!!

Very bitter, which I assume will mellow with conditioning, but super tasty hop flavour  provided I can get the gravity over the line, I will be one happy camper


----------



## paulyman

I wouldn't stress at the moment it sounds like it's still happy and active. If it is still at 1.030 in a fe days then it may have stalled, give the fermenter a gentle swirl to get the yeast back into suspension and up the temp in the fridge a degree or 2.


----------



## menoetes

I just bottled this one 3 days ago

Stone & Wood Pacificale Clone
_25lts_
_19 IBUs_
_ABV: 4.2% or 4.4% after bottling_

70% Pilsen Malt
21% Wheat Malt
5% Carapils
4% Torrified Wheat

30g of Cascade @ 15min
30g of Galaxy @ 5
20g of Galaxy - Dry Hopped

Yeast - Wyeast; 1450 Denny's Favourite 50

It smells great and can't wait to get at it in 2 weeks time - should be a cracker. I think the colour is about right and the aroma will certainly be too with the dry hop - all that's left now is the tasting. I will post a pic when I crack the first one...


----------



## Dan Pratt

Matplat said:


> So my brew has been in the fermenter for 6 days now... And I just opened it up to add 25g Amarillo dry hop and then take hydro sample.
> 
> OG was 1.052 and so far it has only reached 1.030. Does that sound right, I've read people saying they've nearly reached FG in 5 days sometimes.... So I was expecting to be a bit closer than 1.030? There is still good air-lock action and I dropped the temp to ferment at 17-18 after reading a bit more about S-04 which would have slowed things down a bit, and I only sprinkled the yeast on instead of re-hydrating, so I may be worrying about nothing.... but just wondered peoples thoughts on it all?
> 
> Cheers, Matt


Hi Matplat,

what did you measure the 1.030 with ?

if it was the refractometer then its @ 1.016 which is pretty much done as the reading is with alcohol and needs to be converted.


----------



## Matplat

Hi Pratty,

No it was measured with a normal hydrometer unfortunately! 

I went and checked the air lock again, it is probably going 4-5 times a minute which I believe is a fairly good rate.

I was looking at the spec sheet for s-04, and if sprinkling straight into the fermenter, the wort is supposed to be over 20deg but mine was down around 16. I also stirred the yeast straight in whereas you are supposed to wait half an hour.

I think these two factors combined may have lead to a slow start which it has now recovered from....At least that's what I'm hoping!


----------



## Nizmoose

Matplat said:


> Hi Pratty,
> 
> No it was measured with a normal hydrometer unfortunately!
> 
> I went and checked the air lock again, it is probably going 4-5 times a minute which I believe is a fairly good rate.
> 
> I was looking at the spec sheet for s-04, and if sprinkling straight into the fermenter, the wort is supposed to be over 20deg but mine was down around 16. I also stirred the yeast straight in whereas you are supposed to wait half an hour.
> 
> I think these two factors combined may have lead to a slow start which it has now recovered from....At least that's what I'm hoping!


If you search 'ahb s04 stall' you might be annoyed lol but it sounds like it's still chugging along, don't rely on the airlock is good advice but mainly for when it's doing nothing (i.e. If there's no airlock activity there may still be fermentation) but a bubbling airlock always means active yeast (or active something at least) so I wouldn't worry till the airlock had stopped for quite a few days and you SG reading was still high and not moving down over three days


----------



## Matplat

Nizmoose said:


> If you search 'ahb s04 stall' you might be annoyed lol but it sounds like it's still chugging along, don't rely on the airlock is good advice but mainly for when it's doing nothing (i.e. If there's no airlock activity there may still be fermentation) but a bubbling airlock always means active yeast (or active something at least) so I wouldn't worry till the airlock had stopped for quite a few days and you SG reading was still high and not moving down over three days


Bummer, seems like I set myself up to fail slightly.... Maybe I shouldn't bother waiting and just turn the temp back up to 20 (where I had it originally, d'oh!) and give the FV a bit of a twist, as I was hoping to bottle it this weekend...

I was planning to re-use this yeast a few times, but I think I might just go and get a packet of US-05 for my next amber ale :unsure:


----------



## Matplat

So, I just cranked up the temp 2 deg and gave it a bit of a swirl, so we'll see what happens in a few days time.

One thing I thought though, how severe is the risk of mixing the yeasty crap on the surface back into the wort/beer?

Old mr Palmer reckons it's super bitter so should be avoided...?


----------



## Matplat

Bob_Loblaw said:


> UPDATE.
> 
> So after dry-hopping and cold crashing for a full week, the rubbery off taste was still present. I kegged it and gassed it up hoping that might make a difference to no avail. The S&W fruitiness is not there and it tastes like water out of a rubber tube. The only thing I can think of is that I've done something to the yeast when I re-hydrated it in warm water (maybe too warm) and this has tainted the beer.
> 
> Anyway, I'm going to try it again and alter the hop schedule a bit to have more galaxy going in later in the boil. This time I'm just going to sprinkle the dried yeast on top after stirring vigourously.


I was reading John Palmers website and was reading about autolysis of yeast, Mr Palmer reckons that a rubbery flavour is the least extreme consequence of autolysis and that the worst creates an odour that will clear a room... So apparently you got off lightly!


----------



## Nizmoose

Autolysis shouldn't be a problem under normal conditions for at least a month probably longer so no need to stress there! I ferment in the one vessel for 3 weeks for some beers and have never had a problem. In regards to the s04 don't feel like you've bought a dud yeast haha many people love it and I'll definitely be giving it a shot, just be aware of its quirks and how you can combat it so that you don't have any surprises. Once again with the swirling imo it won't have an effect on your beer providing you cold crash before bottling and the yeast was healthy at pitching


----------



## Matplat

Still bloody bubbling! Will it ever stop! I am also concerned that if i have to leave it in there another week, that the dry hop will end up tasting grassy? But perhaps any aroma from it will have been blasted out by the continuing primary phase?


----------



## menoetes

If you're worried about the dry hop sitting on the beer too long, you can move the beer to a secondary vessel (ie a second fermenter if you have one). That'll get it off both the sunken hops and the yeast cake - no worries about autolysis anymore. Though like Nizmoose said, it's not something you will need to worry about for some weeks to come.

If it's still bubbling check the gravity - what's it at? if it's dropped super low (ie below 1.008) then you can start worrying about having an infection.


----------



## Matplat

The bubbling has slowed to maybe 1-1.5 times per minute, so I think we are almost there.

I will check the gravity this afternoon, but the hydro sample I tasted was freakin delicious, although overly bitter there were zero off flavours, so I'm not too concerned about infection. I just want to be sure I don't make any bombs!

I'm not concerned about autolysis either, I only mentioned it in reference to Mr Boblaw's issues...

Considering it has taken so long to reach this stage, do you think it still needs to stay in the fermenter another week for clean-up? would be great if I could bottle this weekend....


----------



## Nizmoose

Matplat said:


> The bubbling has slowed to maybe 1-1.5 times per minute, so I think we are almost there.
> 
> I will check the gravity this afternoon, but the hydro sample I tasted was freakin delicious, although overly bitter there were zero off flavours, so I'm not too concerned about infection. I just want to be sure I don't make any bombs!
> 
> I'm not concerned about autolysis either, I only mentioned it in reference to Mr Boblaw's issues...
> 
> Considering it has taken so long to reach this stage, do you think it still needs to stay in the fermenter another week for clean-up? would be great if I could bottle this weekend....


The funny thing is it sounds like you have pretty much a bang on perfect fermentation! Just let it keep doing its thing and then once your airlock has stopped for a day or so start measuring your gravity to see if it has finished or is still moving. Being a Pacific Ale clone (assuming wheat was used) it should be cloudy so a day or so of cold crashing if you can AFTER terminal gravity is reached then bottle her up!


----------



## indica86

Airlocks are not a reliable indication that fermentation is going, has stopped, is slowing whatever.
CO2 can continue to come out of solution post fermentation.
Specific gravity readings are the key.


----------



## Nizmoose

indica86 said:


> Airlocks are not a reliable indication that fermentation is going, has stopped, is slowing whatever.
> CO2 can continue to come out of solution post fermentation.
> Specific gravity readings are the key.


This. Although obviously airlock activity means fermentation is occurring, it's when there's no activity that you need to whip out the hydro.


----------



## Matplat

Well just took a gravity reading, it came in at 1.017 and there is still veerrrrry slllloooow airlock movement so looks like i will be waiting until next weekend at the earliest for bottling. Hydro sample tasted great, definitely no infection not as bitter as last time, but cloudy as hell with loads of lumps in it... i guess il take another reading in a few days after the airlock has stopped.


----------



## Nizmoose

Sounds like the yeast is definitely still active and you've still got plenty of sugar to get through, sorry if its been asked already but how long has it been fermenting in days now? I have a Pacific Ale clone that is 9 days old and its calmed down but will be in the fermenter for at least 2 weeks, I wont bother testing it till its almost 2 weeks old and then will cold crash once it has showed a stable SG over three or so days.


----------



## Matplat

It has been in the fermenter 11 days now, i was under the impression that the airlock would stop after 5-7 days once primary had finished? And that you would reach 90% of FG within that same period....? I am obviously still learning


----------



## Nizmoose

Yeah it really depends on the yeast pitch, strain, temperatures, and keep in mind airlock activity is not a good fermentation measurement you'll hardly ever get consistent airlock behaviour across brews. From what I've read s04 doesn't tear through the process so I wouldn't be surprised, as I said above I'd give primary fermentation 2 weeks providing everything went according to plan.


----------



## Matplat

Hmmm waiting waiting..... the fact that i am currently having to drink my previous brew which pretty much tastes like VB makes it that much harder


----------



## Nizmoose

Yep patience is the hardest bit


----------



## burrster

For what it's worth I think your fermentation is going fine given the circumstance. 

I'd suggest that

A - you've slightly under pitched for a higher gravity beer,( a good rule of thumb is that a SG over 1.050 you should pitch 2 packets, )
B - you didn't re hydrate the yeast and
C - SO4 is a fickle beast, and tends to be slower than say, US05, and under attenuate ( Higher FG reading).

I'd keep your temp up at 20 degrees, give it the gentle swirls others have mentioned, and what a few more days. I leave all my beers fermenting for 14 days before cold crashing, so 11 days isn't so bad. I'd suggest US 05 is a better choice for your next version, unless you like what SO4 has brought to the party.


I'm Currently drinking my version of this ( S&W pacific ale). It turned out great, and very clear. The Recipe was 1.5kg light Coopers liquid extract, 1 kg dry wheat extract, and .250kg light DME in 25L to get 4.5% ABV( Oh and I used galaxy to 21 IBU's)

Good Luck!


----------



## Matplat

Yeah I was going to ask about a faster yeast, and was thinking of US-05..... I think I will still collect some yeast from this batch though for future use. Hopefully using a load of yeast slurry would be a larger pitch and get the job done quicker.

For the moment at least, I want to get more stock ASAP!


----------



## Nizmoose

Matplat said:


> Yeah I was going to ask about a faster yeast, and was thinking of US-05..... I think I will still collect some yeast from this batch though for future use. Hopefully using a load of yeast slurry would be a larger pitch and get the job done quicker.
> 
> For the moment at least, I want to get more stock ASAP!


If it's a fast ferment you're after then you can't go past Nottingham dried yeast by danstar, people get ridiculously quick results with it. The US-05 is what I use for Pacific Ale because it's clean. Try not to rush fermentation too much, for me at least I'd rather drink good beer in five weeks instead of shit beer in 3 weeks.


----------



## Matplat

My patience may improve anyway, next on the list is a dunkelweizen, which I have got K-97 for already, and by the time I am ready for the ale after that (cascarillo), I will be drinking this current batch which should keep me happy.

It will be a good comparison to see how the s-04 performs when pitched from recovered yeast slurry.


----------



## burrster

Nizmoose said:


> If it's a fast ferment you're after then you can't go past Nottingham dried yeast by danstar, people get ridiculously quick results with it. The US-05 is what I use for Pacific Ale because it's clean. Try not to rush fermentation too much, for me at least I'd rather drink good beer in five weeks instead of shit beer in 3 weeks.


Indeed its fast and very clean, especially at 15 or 17 degrees(clean), BUT, it does strip out some of the hops flavour. That is the only reason I didn't suggest it. Nottingham and US05 are my favourite yeasts.


----------



## Matplat

Still bubbling.... day 16... temp at 21°C :huh:

Probably 1 per minute, gonna take another hydro sample tonight... looks like bottling may not happen this weekend


----------



## Matplat

So its still bubbling slowly but the hydrometer shows this! Target FG is 1.012...If it shows the same tomorrow im gonna cold crash until bottling time on saturday morning


----------



## technobabble66

As i think has been mentioned earlier, the bubbling is probably just CO2 coming out of solution.
And the calculated FG can be inaccurate (my last brew attenuated to 94% rather than the 82% calculated - bloody Belgian yeasts! :lol: ).

(as you seem to be aware) Just take 3+ days straight of the same hydro reading. (& to be fair, that it's also close to the calculated FG  ).
Hopefully that 3rd day is tomorrow, and its bottles ahoy!! ... And then only 14 sleeps until Beer Central B)
2c


----------



## stompnground

hey all, newbie here and am about to do my first extract recipe! as per some advice on this thread i am going to go with: 

1.5kg Pilsen light LME
1.5kg Wheat LME
250g Carapils

30g cascade @15 mins
30g Galaxy @ 5 mins
15g Galaxy Dry hopped on day 6 or gravity less than 1.020 (for 2 days) then remove.
15g Galaxy Dry hopped on day 8 (for 2 days) then remove.
Crash in fridge for 2 days then bottle.

I have a 20 litre pot and a burner so want to do a full boil. so my question is do i follow the same directions as the 8 litre boil or do i need to change anything?
Thanks so much everyone for all your input on here. I am fully excited to do this brew!!!


----------



## seamad

Keep in mind that with a 20l pot you may want to keep the volume down to @ 15l to avoid boil overs. Also the longer it takes to cool down that volume the more bitter it's going to get. I all grain ( 60 % pils, 20% wheat, 20% raw wheat ) but I don't think I'd use carapils in this beer at all. I aim for 18 IBU when making this beer, and dry hop @ 2.0g/L for 48 hours at CC temp. I ferment with 1272 ( american ale II)
Had one at coolangatta beach yesterday arvo, it's now next on my brew list.
Good luck with it, sure it will turn out tasty as.


----------



## stompnground

so would i only boil for 15 mins? as this is the longest hop time. I will be chilling it in an ice bath in the laundry sink and maybe even some sterile ice in the wort. thanks for the tip on the Carapils. i only added it as i thought it may add to body and head. I will be using US-05 as thats what i have on hand. cheers for the help!


----------



## seamad

Yep to boil time, the ice bath should drop the temp fairly quick ( from memory, I started AG with BIAB in the BigW 19l pot ) and ice even quicker. This beer doesn't have a lot of body and you'll get the desired head with the wheat lme anyway. US05 is perfectly suitable, I just have a soft spot for 1272. I reckon the real one has less than 18 IBU too, but I'm happy with mine, and IBU calculation is a bit of a dark art for us homebrewers.


----------



## stompnground

yes... getting my head around calculating IBU's at the moment


----------



## stompnground

sorry this is getting off topic... a question about chilling the wort once it has achieved FG. I have an empty chest freezer. would it be safe to chill it in there for 2 days before bottling or is it better to put it in the fridge?


----------



## paulyman

stompnground said:


> sorry this is getting off topic... a question about chilling the wort once it has achieved FG. I have an empty chest freezer. would it be safe to chill it in there for 2 days before bottling or is it better to put it in the fridge?


Is it permanently empty? If so grab a temp controller and use it to control the entire ferment, including the cold crash, I run my chesty this way and cold crash at 1-2C. The freezer as is will probably get much to cold and freeze the beer!


----------



## stompnground

I would use it to control the ferment but i am in Stanthorpe QLD where it gets below zero. I think i would need to have a heat source in there too. getting a bit tricky for me but maybe down the track. I could use it to control the cold crash though  is a fridge ok to cold crash in the meantime?


----------



## menoetes

A fridge is fine. Most fridges sit between 1'c - 3'c at their lowest settings, which is what you're looking for.

However is it is an older model with the exposed cooling element at the back, just make sure your fermenter isn't touching it. I've found ice in my FV thanks to an older model fridge like that.


----------



## stompnground

nope its a newer one. it was the food fridge that became the food/beer fridge and now its become the brew fridge :beerbang:


----------



## slcmorro

I'd drop the cascade altogether.


----------



## seamad

slcmorro said:


> I'd drop the cascade altogether.


Didn't register the cascade, I'd drop it too, galaxy all the way. With a 15min boil you aren't going to get the harshness you might get from a 60min boil.


----------



## stompnground

sweet as thanks guys. pretty precious with my Galaxy as a can't find it anywhere... anyone know where i can buy some??
I wanted to use some Breiss liquid malt but it hasn't arrived yet. how much DME would i need instead?
so i will go with:
1.5kg coopers Wheat LME
DME
30g Galaxy @ 15mins
30g of Galaxy @5 mins
40g Galaxy Dry 

Also when i calculate the IBU's it really varies as to the boil size. If i do a 15 litre boil they are double that of a boil size of 8 litres. how does the extra amount of liquid you boil the hops in change the IBU so much?


----------



## stompnground

all done. just pitched the yeast. it took 3 hours to get it down to 18 degrees from a 15 litre boil using ice in the sink. Is that too long?


----------



## Matplat

Im no expert... but i think you will definitely have chill haze. John Palmer says half an hour to get down below 25....


----------



## stompnground

Matplat said:


> Im no expert... but i think you will definitely have chill haze. John Palmer says half an hour to get down below 25....


thanks mate, do you know if it can be cleared up with 2 days CC in the fridge at 2 degrees before bottling?


----------



## slcmorro

Chill haze won't matter in this beer. It's meant to be drank with yeast in suspension anyways - cloudy.


----------



## stompnground

slcmorro said:


> Chill haze won't matter in this beer. It's meant to be drank with yeast in suspension anyways - cloudy.


brilliant. thanks mate


----------



## slcmorro

No worries. Remember to roll your bottles gently when pouring to rouse the yeast


----------



## Matplat

slcmorro said:


> Chill haze won't matter in this beer. It's meant to be drank with yeast in suspension anyways - cloudy.


He beat me to it! To answer your question though, i dont think cold crashing helps with chill haze. John palmer explains it better than me...


----------



## stompnground

thanks for the advice guys. much appreciated.
well... so my first extract brew is a bust... i used Coopers Wheat Beer instead of Coopers Wheat Extract. Now it is has an IBU of 46! I must say how good is IanH's spreadsheet though!!! 
the wort has a really bitter aftertaste. rookie mistake. any ideas of how i may be able to balance it out hop wise? its a bit late to try much else. its sitting at 19 degrees and the smell of those Galaxy hops is amazing. oh well i well probably still drink it.


----------



## Matplat

Bummer dude... all is not lost. You could dissolve more malt extract and gently add it to the FV this will balance out the added IBU. 

Use the spreadsheet to see what the BU:GU ratio should be if you had used extract instead of a kit. Then change the extract to a kit, then add extract as required to return the BU:GU ratio to where it was.

Matt


----------



## stompnground

Matplat said:


> Bummer dude... all is not lost. You could dissolve more malt extract and gently add it to the FV this will balance out the added IBU.
> 
> Use the spreadsheet to see what the BU:GU ratio should be if you had used extract instead of a kit. Then change the extract to a kit, then add extract as required to return the BU:GU ratio to where it was.
> 
> Matt


thanks for that Matt.
what actually is the BU:GU ratio? so it looks like if i add another 1.6kg of DME it will equal out the BU:GU ratio to what it should have been. Will this throw out anything else if i add it?
thanks again,
Richie


----------



## Matplat

I have only learnt of it recently, it is the bittering units:gravity units ratio. I did some brews which seemed extremely bitter at only 35IBU so i couldnt imagine how an IPA could be bittered to 60+ IBU. But it's all about the balance with the amount of malt (indicated by the starting gravity). 

What was the ratio before you changed the kit to extract? Add more malt to the recipe to try and achieve this ratio after you change it back to extract.


----------



## stompnground

the ratio should have been 0.68 but is 1.11


----------



## dicko

stompnground said:


> all done. just pitched the yeast. it took 3 hours to get it down to 18 degrees from a 15 litre boil using ice in the sink. Is that too long?





stompnground said:


> thanks for the advice guys. much appreciated.
> well... so my first extract brew is a bust... i
> the wort has a really bitter aftertaste. rookie mistake. any ideas of how i may be able to balance it out hop wise? its a bit late to try much else. its sitting at 19 degrees and the smell of those Galaxy hops is amazing. oh well i well probably still drink it.


The time it takes to chill a wort that has had late hop additions can have ahuge difference in the bitterness level of the beer.
Galaxy is a hop that needs to be treated carefully and used sparingly to avoid that harshness.


----------



## stompnground

dicko said:


> The time it takes to chill a wort that has had late hop additions can have ahuge difference in the bitterness level of the beer.
> Galaxy is a hop that needs to be treated carefully and used sparingly to avoid that harshness.


thanks mate. they were only 30g at 15 mins and 30 @ 5 mins... oh well next time i will chill it down faster. thanks for the tip!


----------



## Matplat

stompnground said:


> the ratio should have been 0.68 but is 1.11


Thatshh gonna be bitter! How many IBU's in the recipe? I just checked my recipes that were a bit too bitter, and the were at 0.8, the English IPA that I'm planning is heading for 0.7...

I just saw what you said about having to add 1.6kg to get it back down.... that's quite alot, and will increase the ABV fairly significantly, the yeast quantity that you pitched may not be sufficient to get it done. You could add a bit more to take the edge off it, or just leave it and chalk it up to a lesson learned!

Cheers, Matt.


----------



## stompnground

Matplat said:


> Thatshh gonna be bitter! How many IBU's in the recipe? I just checked my recipes that were a bit too bitter, and the were at 0.8, the English IPA that I'm planning is heading for 0.7...
> 
> I just saw what you said about having to add 1.6kg to get it back down.... that's quite alot, and will increase the ABV fairly significantly, the yeast quantity that you pitched may not be sufficient to get it done. You could add a bit more to take the edge off it, or just leave it and chalk it up to a lesson learned!
> 
> Cheers, Matt.


thanks Matt... i added 500g to take the edge off. its going to be a punchy brew! oh well lesson learned


----------



## stompnground

Matplat said:


> Thatshh gonna be bitter! How many IBU's in the recipe? I just checked my recipes that were a bit too bitter, and the were at 0.8, the English IPA that I'm planning is heading for 0.7...
> 
> I just saw what you said about having to add 1.6kg to get it back down.... that's quite alot, and will increase the ABV fairly significantly, the yeast quantity that you pitched may not be sufficient to get it done. You could add a bit more to take the edge off it, or just leave it and chalk it up to a lesson learned!
> 
> Cheers, Matt.


Hey Matt, should I add a bit more yeast into the FV to make sure it gets the job done? I have just done 2 more batches with no mistakes! lesson learned


----------



## yankinoz

Nick JD said:


> I've found the best way to use Galaxy without having a beer that needs to go sit in the naughty corner for 5 weeks, is to use a lot of galaxy late - eliminate the long boil additions, and for God's sake, if you feel you must dry hop with the stuff, do it for very short periods of time, like 24 hours and then get it the hell out or your beer will taste like a bowl of silage.
> 
> The recipe in the OP does exactly this. I wouldn't mess with it except to say that the dry hop IMO would be best popped in there at FG and left for 24 hours before bottling. Galaxy has a bad habit of giving passionfruit initially, and banana skins soon after.


Second the motion to keep dry hops short. 24 hours will extract the oils almost as well as a week will, but without so much grass. If you do dry hop, maybe try a moderate amount first.

Pacific is a brew I'm always happy to find, overjoyed if it's stuck in the middle of a row of macroswill taps, but to my tastes it seems less like an APA than a blonde ale that's a bit high in IBUs. I don't know what the official IBU rating is, but I'd swear it's higher than 21, which is where Victoria Bilge clocks in. I'd up the 20 minute hops.


----------



## Bribie G

A bit off topic as this thread is about a particular beer brand, but..... pity that John Palmer has (like many other beer writers) failed to keep up with latest practices. The chill haze thing is one example.

Since the advent of No-chill in cubes which has only been around for about five or six years as a popular method it's pretty obvious that Palmer's dire warnings about slow chilling don't really hold up.
Of course, depending on malts and adjuncts there's always the risk of chill haze in any brew, but no chill ain't one of them, in my experience.


----------



## stompnground

Bribie G said:


> A bit off topic as this thread is about a particular beer brand, but..... pity that John Palmer has (like many other beer writers) failed to keep up with latest practices. The chill haze thing is one example.
> 
> Since the advent of No-chill in cubes which has only been around for about five or six years as a popular method it's pretty obvious that Palmer's dire warnings about slow chilling don't really hold up.
> Of course, depending on malts and adjuncts there's always the risk of chill haze in any brew, but no chill ain't one of them, in my experience.


thats one might fine looking brew!


----------



## slcmorro

yankinoz said:


> Second the motion to keep dry hops short. 24 hours will extract the oils almost as well as a week will, but without so much grass. If you do dry hop, maybe try a moderate amount firsr


I've done my version of it three times now (fermenting the 4th as we speak) and they all varied from 5-8 days with precisely 60gms as a dry hop addition each time and I don't get the grassiness. The only thing that might change it is I usually cc for 3 days at -1c before I keg it.


----------



## Matplat

stompnground said:


> Hey Matt, should I add a bit more yeast into the FV to make sure it gets the job done? I have just done 2 more batches with no mistakes! lesson learned


I wouldn't worry about that just yet, not for 500g extra, wait and see if you get a stall...

That's just me though, would seem excessive and expensive to pitch another sachet. Yeasties will just have a bit more growing to do!

Someone more experienced than me may have a different opinion though.


----------



## yankinoz

Bribie G said:


> A bit off topic as this thread is about a particular beer brand, but..... pity that John Palmer has (like many other beer writers) failed to keep up with latest practices. The chill haze thing is one example.
> 
> Since the advent of No-chill in cubes which has only been around for about five or six years as a popular method it's pretty obvious that Palmer's dire warnings about slow chilling don't really hold up.
> Of course, depending on malts and adjuncts there's always the risk of chill haze in any brew, but no chill ain't one of them, in my experience.


I agree, Palmer's wrong on chill haze, and a wort chiller is low on my wish list, but for all those brewers out there chilling, I hasten to add that for some purposes cubing is one thing, slow chilling in a kettle another.

Palmer also says quick chilling stops formation of DMS and gets the wort out of a high-danger zone for infection. Infection is little concern for cubers if they pour wort above 80 C. into sanitized cubes. Wort slowly cooling in an unsealed kettle is another matter.

Formation of DMS from precursors slows as wort cools and is almost nil below 80 C. If no-chillers have no problem, it could be in part because the transfer cools the wort (even down to 90 substantially reduces DMS formation).

I usually add cold water to get wort fast down to 80, keep a tight lid on the kettle and use an ice bath, without worrying if it takes an hour or two to get to pitching temperature. Overnight I would worry. Few problems with chill haze, none so far with DMS and infection.

One Palmer advice I've always thought strange is that in partial boils he advocates chilling the hot wort and then adding it to water in the fermenter. Adding cold sanitized water first makes more sense.


----------



## Matplat

yankinoz said:


> I usually add cold water to get wort fast down to 80, keep a tight lid on the kettle and use an ice bath, without worrying if it takes an hour or two to get to pitching temperature. Overnight I would worry. Few problems with chill haze, none so far with DMS and infection.
> 
> One Palmer advice I've always thought strange is that in partial boils he advocates chilling the hot wort and then adding it to water in the fermenter. Adding cold sanitized water first makes more sense.


I have wondered about doing this, but thought that it had not been advised as you would essentially be oxidising the wort at that temp. Even if you siphon into the wort you are introducing oxygenated water which could potentially oxidise the wort. If you poured it in you would straight out be asking for trouble.

Just my theory....


----------



## stompnground

I have just bottled 3 variations PA and they all smell and taste spot on but they all have chill haze... (it took them about 3 hours each to cool down to pitching temp.) Not too worried about this batch as PA is hazy too, but for future brews it would be nice to produce some clear beer. I don't have a chiller and i have limited water supply to run it anyway.
Any suggestions of what i can do in the future?
Also what amount of Dex would you recommend to prime a 700ml bottle? thanks for all your help,
Richie


----------



## sponge

Have you tried using gelatine after fermentation has finished? I mainly add in the keg though, but can also be done after fermentation and have done this a few times with good success. It does wonders improving the clarity of a beer.


----------



## stompnground

sponge said:


> Have you tried using gelatine after fermentation has finished? I mainly add in the keg though, but can also be done after fermentation and have done this a few times with good success. It does wonders improving the clarity of a beer.


 I used Isinglass one one batch but it didn't really do anything. I will have to give gelatine a go next. thanks for the tip Sponge


----------



## btrots87

If you're having problems with chill haze I really recommend using polyclar vt during cold crashing, and whirlfloc tablets during the boil. Worked great for me. Plenty of good info on here about how to use them. 

If you don't have a wort chiller then just put the pot into a tub of ice water after the boil, should cool it down pretty quick.


----------



## Arch82

I was in fine form yesterday, i hadn't brewed in ages and decided last minute to have a crack at a S&W pacific ale style...

Brew shop only had Galaxy in 12g finishing bags....so i bought all 6.

By the time i got started I'd had a few beers and managed to stuff up my hops schedule and slightly overfilled the fermentor...ended up with the following...

Batch Size: 25.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 4.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.3 IBU

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract
1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract
200 gm Dextrose
12.00 gm Galaxy [14.50 %] (35 min) Hops
12.00 gm Galaxy [14.50 %] (10 min) Hops
24.00 gm Galaxy [14.50 %] (5 min) Hops

To top it all off, i thought i had a packet of US05 in the freezer at home, put the beer down and couldn't find it. I'll duck out tomorrow morning and grab some.

Beer is currently sitting at 18.5* in my temp controlled fermentation fridge.

Any thoughts on how the above will turn out in regards to IBU and pashionfruit flavour? It doesn't taste or smell remotely fruity at the moment...

Will be dry hopping 12g on the 7th day and 12g on the 8th day.

Regards,

Mr Organised


----------



## slcmorro

Just dry hop 24gm on either day. No point waiting 24 hrs to add another bit, you're just increasing the chance for infection without any discernable gain.


----------



## Arch82

slcmorro said:


> Just dry hop 24gm on either day. No point waiting 24 hrs to add another bit, you're just increasing the chance for infection without any discernable gain.


Will do mate, cheers for the reply.

What IBU figure do you get with the above schedule? What do you use to calculate it?


----------



## slcmorro

I use Beermate. It's free and works well for me. I'll plug your figures in when I'm at home for you and let you know.


----------



## slcmorro

Brewmate*


----------



## slcmorro

Assuming you chill, having plugged your recipe into BrewMate -

4.03% @ 27 IBU - 25L

Looks like a good recipe to me mate. Best of luck.


----------



## chrisluki

Hey guys

Just saw this thread pop up and just bychance i also had a crack at a Pacific Ale style beer this weekend...its bubbling away as we speak!

My Recipe:
4.00 kg Pale Malt
800.0 g Wheat Malt
5.0 g Galaxy [14.5%] - Boil 30 min
10.0 g Galaxy [14.5%] - Boil 15 min 
40.0 g Galaxy [14.5%] – Flameout
1 pkgs Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
40.0 g Galaxy [14.0%] - Dry Hop 6 days

Hit my Post Boil Gravity right on the head at 1.049, which should have me come in at 4.7% if it all goes to plan!

I am hoping for something that is nice and sessionable...

Cheers

Chris


----------



## slcmorro

All these late bittering additions of Galaxy has me wanting to say...

Don't fear using it at 60 for bittering. There's a few out there who have shirked it and said it gives a harsh bitterness, but in my experience it doesn't/hasn't. In fact, we were drinking one of my 4 goes at this brew just over a month after brewing - no specific harshness perceptible.


----------



## Arch82

slcmorro said:


> Assuming you chill, having plugged your recipe into BrewMate -
> 
> 4.03% @ 27 IBU - 25L
> 
> Looks like a good recipe to me mate. Best of luck.


Thanks for looking into that for me mate.

I use Ian's spreadsheet and really like it but I've never understood why the style of beer you choose completely changes the estimated IBU...

I know the average IBU of your selected style is apart of the formula and that's why the IBU changes but I don't understand why...

I thought the only variables that affect IBU is amount of hops, AA%, boil time, gravity of boil and boil volume?

I don't want to brew a "style" anyway, I want to brew the above and know exactly what the IBU actually is and adjust to taste on the next brew.

I'll definitely check out brewmate, cheers again.


----------



## Arch82

Arch82 said:


> Thanks for looking into that for me mate.
> 
> I use Ian's spreadsheet and really like it but I've never understood why the style of beer you choose completely changes the estimated IBU...
> 
> I know the average IBU of your selected style is apart of the formula and that's why the IBU changes but I don't understand why...
> 
> I thought the only variables that affect IBU is amount of hops, AA%, boil time, gravity of boil and boil volume?
> 
> I don't want to brew a "style" anyway, I want to brew the above and know exactly what the IBU actually is and adjust to taste on the next brew.
> 
> I'll definitely check out brewmate, cheers again.


I should re-word what i said above, it's not Ian's spreadsheet..... It's the following that makes zero sense to me: *"Garetz' "Hop Concentration Factor" formula uses the "Desired IBU" in its calculations"*

Surely the estimated IBU difference between a 4L and 10L boil can be calculated from the amount of hops, AA%, boil time, gravity of boil and boil volume..

Your "desired IBU" means nothing in the real world, does it?


----------



## Arch82

Does this recipe usually smell like passion fruit during fermentation before dry hopping??

I think I might have my first ever infection...this brew smells and tastes slightly rotten with no fruit flavour or taste...


----------



## slcmorro

Arch82 said:


> Does this recipe usually smell like passion fruit during fermentation before dry hopping??


Not usually, no.


----------



## Ben1

Mine smelt like passion fruit before dry hopping @arch82, so don't worry


----------



## slcmorro

Ben1 said:


> Mine smelt like passion fruit before dry hopping @arch82, so don't worry


That's precisely his worry. He said his *doesn't* smell like passion fruit at the moment.


----------



## Ben1

My mistake. Should have read better. Carry on...


----------



## Arch82

No worries Ben1.

I think she's toast boys...fermented super fast even at 18.5*c, almost seemed carbonated when poured into a glass, smells and tastes pretty ordinary (faint rotten vege sort of smell).

Is there a sure fire way to confirm it's infected? Thinking about dumping it and saving the galaxy hops i was going to dry hop with..


----------



## Buckstar

Shanta said:


> Hello fellow brewers!
> 
> I can across this recipe and felt the need to share it on this website and also ask some questions in regards to it.
> 
> Recipe: 109 Stone & Wood Pacific Ale
> Style: American Pale Ale
> TYPE: Extract
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
> Estimated Color: 4.9 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 20.8 IBU
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Light Extract (3.5 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 1.50 kg Coopers Liquid Wheat Malt Extract (4.2 EBC) Extract 50.00 %
> 10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (20 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
> 15.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.9 IBU
> 20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs American Ale US05 Yeast-Ale
> 
> Bring
> 4L of water and approx 520g of the light extract to the boil. Add 10g Galaxy hops, after 10 minutes add another 15g Galaxy hops, after another 10 minutes take off the heat and add the final 20g Galaxy Hops. I usually put the lid on the pot for the last 2 minutes so that the steam sterilizes the lid.
> 
> While this is boiling add a few litres of water to the fermenter and then the rest of the malt extract, stir thoroughly. Cool the pot in a sink of cold water and then add to the fermenter (I don't strain the hops out). Top up to 23L. Pitch the yeast and ferment at 18C. I bottled after 3 weeks.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> With this recipe in mind I would like to try to add some grain to this bill can anyone recommend anything or any alterations that you believe might be worth while?
> 
> cheers


hey is this the complete recipe what base kit did u use such as coopers pale ale?? sorry if uneducated question..


----------



## Dae Tripper

There is no base kit, as he has used unhopped extract tins.


----------



## goatchop41

Arch82 said:


> No worries Ben1.
> 
> I think she's toast boys...fermented super fast even at 18.5*c, almost seemed carbonated when poured into a glass, smells and tastes pretty ordinary (faint rotten vege sort of smell).
> 
> Is there a sure fire way to confirm it's infected? Thinking about dumping it and saving the galaxy hops i was going to dry hop with..


Check the gravity - is it lower than expected? Then wait a bit longer (another week or two) and check again...has the gravity gone down even further? If so, then yes, it is infected :blink: if not, then maybe it's just a byproduct of your fermentation or an aspect of your brewing process.
Either way, give it some time. You'll either find out that it actually is infected, or it may improve. As hard as it may seem to believe, sometimes the yeast can throw off some really rough flavours like that (I made a S&W PC clone that tasted similar for about a month or two, then slowly became absolutely lovely) that will go away with time (and be covered by a generous dry hop)


----------



## greatwombatski

Hay fellow beerologists i'm thinking of giving this recipe a crack, in the next month or so.... just put on my peated dark ale so the fv will be full for the next 3 or 4 weeks. never tried the real deal brew though. might have to see if dans has it here in Adelaide.

thinking of making as the op but with citra and/or Amarillo added as a dry hop... I have 25g citra (13.5%) and 100g Amarillo (8%) any suggestions as to how much of each would result in something similar to the real deal?
I also have 20g mosaic (12.8%) available that is also nice and fruity so can add some of that to the mix too.... was going to try for a fruit salad ale but this beer sounds like a go first.

my 2nd brew was a galaxy and mosaic pale and came out really fruity and is absolutely delicious. that brew was dry hopped with both hops for 9 days as well as boils and I have not experienced the "grassy" taste that a lot of people say happens with galaxy.

I have not looked into what and why of all the different yeasts available yet so which yeast would be recommended for this brew and the best temp to ferment at?... I have a us-05 in the fridge but will use something else if its a preferred option.
so far i've used a kit yeast, a us-05 and my peated dark has an s-04... all just dry sprinkled between 20c & 23c
I have a temp controller and belt heater so with this cold Adelaide weather I can hold at a pretty consistent temp of between 15c and well into the 20s. my 1st brew was set at 22c, my 2nd at 21c and my peated dark at 19c

any help would be greatly appreciated.
cheers fellas


----------



## Zip

Hi Guys,
First post here and must say thank you all so much for your wealth of knowledge thus far. Have been brewing for nearly a year now and cpuldnt habe done it without the help of the forum. (Well thats i lie but id no doubt be drinking piss)
Just thought id share. I put this one on the as per the OP receipe and its a great drop! Just cracked one today after 3 weeks in bottle (couldnt wait any longer) Not quite as hoppy as the original but definately very easy drinking. Have a feeling the ladies will like this one. I got heaps of passionfruit, no banana skins. Like Matt i found it seemed to take an eternity to reach FG bit will take advice onboard and double yeast next time. Thinking i might throw another one on IMMEDIATELY! Perhaps some cascade also this time with the first addition on Galaxy methinks.


----------



## beerbear

Cascade in the dry hopping is a winner I did 20g on day 5 and 15 galaxy on day 10


----------



## joshF

great wombatski, using citra and amarillo won't get you anything close to the real deal unfortunately. But first things first, you're probably going to want to buy a bottle (its much nice on tap though) before you go all out and try to make a batch. You might hate it after all... 

The hops you mention are all great, however not what you're ideally after. Amarillo has some similarities to Galaxy, but Galaxy really does sit on its own as a hop.

If you follow the recipe and use US-05 yeast at around 18 you should come out pretty close. To get that fruity aroma that Stone & Wood has, you are going to want to dry hop a shitload. When dry hopping with galaxy to that extent, it definitely 'can' give off some grassy notes.

Best way around this is to cool the fermenter right down after ferment has finished (ideally as close to zero as possible) then add the galaxy for 4-5 days. By adding the hops when the beer is cold you won't get that grassy taste/smell that people often complain about, or at least it will be significantly reduced. 

hope that helps.


----------



## greatwombatski

Thanks for input JoshF. I will defiantly give it my best to find it here in Adelaide and try. Will keep it same as OP if that's the best result though... Can still use all my hops for an attemp at a fruit salad ale after that so all good.
No drama fermenting at 18c and my pail fermenter just fits in my bar fridge so I can cold crash if that will result in the best outcome


----------



## simchez

Another noob question. How long would you steep the 250gm of carapils for and in how much water? Overnight in cold or steeping in hot water? Also I'm assuming you don't need any dextrose?


----------



## menoetes

I steeped the carapils in 1.5lts of roughly 75'c water for 30min. I find the best way to do this is to bring the water up to temp in a pot on the stove then turn off the heat, stir in the grains and pop the lid on the pot. Steeping is very simple and you don't have to fuss over it too much. If you like you can even wash the grains a second time with another 500mls of hot water after you've strained them the first time.

Just try not to go over 80'c with your water or you might notice some harsher flavours....


----------



## Zip

Will give that a go then BeerBear


----------



## greatwombatski

I really do love insainly hoppy beers so I think I will make this as the OP + 5g in the boil but then dry hop with 30g Galaxy. (I have 80g at hand) and up my boil rates a little. I know I'm getting out of the original recipe but i would like to push the IBUs up as it really does sound a little low for an APA to me.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Also thinking of dropping the LLME for an amber LME as I do prefer my beers on the darker side.... And I currently have a 1.7kg can of Black Rock in stock.
Yes I'm a noob and it's probably answered elsewhere but is there much difference between the Coopers 1.5kg cans and the Black Rock 1.7kg cans or is it just more water in the BR?


----------



## menoetes

There is a 200g difference between the two different can of malt which means a bit of extra fermentables from the black rock tin over the coopers. IMO there it doesn't make much difference in the final specific gravity of your beer and it's alcohol content though (it'll be a tiny bit stronger and fractionally fuller bodied) you could add another liter of water to your FV if you're fussy about getting that part of it right. However; the amber malt blended with the wheat in place of the light malt will make it something closer to a golden ale.

That being said, I've made an golden ale with galaxy before and I really liked it - it just didn't taste a lot like the S&W pacificale. Still tasty though...


----------



## greatwombatski

Thanks for the reply menoetes.
Not really fussed about the gravity being a little different or stronger for that matter. Fuller bodied does sound good though. Lol
Might see if I can rustle up a llme can before I brew so I've still got about 3 weeks before I need to think about it. As you said, it should turn out a pretty good beer even if I do roll with the Amber.... No harm in making it both ways 1 after the other though 
[emoji482]


----------



## drfad

I'm looking at putting this one down on the weekend, but when I plug the details into Ian's spreadsheet I get IBUs of 10.4 or 17. depending on whether I have the hop concentration factor on or not. This seems very low for a pale ale. Am I reading it wrong or something?


----------



## greatwombatski

Just put this on. I rolled with...

1 x Blackrock Unhoped Amber
1 x Blackrock Unhopped Wheat
1 x 500g LDME
80g x Galaxy Hops (15g @ 30min, 15g @ 15 min, 10g @ 10min, 10g @ 5min, 30g @ day 14)
1 x us-05 yeast
Topped to 24L

Method
Bring 4.75L water to the boil, add 500g LDME and bring to the boil. Add 1st hop addition and boil for 15 mins, add 2nd hop addition and boil for 5 mins, add 3rd hop addition and boil for 5 mins, add 4th hop addition and boil for 5 mins. Steep for 15 mins then mix in the malts and add to the fermenter. Top to 24 liters


----------



## drfad

Made this 2 weeks ago and dry hopped 2 days ago with 20g of galaxy. I also have some Amarillo and centennial hops. Would it be worth adding some of these in another dry hop addition or would it be over complicating things?


----------



## greatwombatski

Bottled mine yesterday, tasted fantastic out the hydrometer tube. Can't wait to smash a few down in 4 or 5 weeks time.


----------



## drfad

Mine has been in the keg for about a week and am not sure how long it will last! Definitely my best brew. Even my old man said he would quite happily drink it all day. 
Unfortunately now the weather is hot again my temp control goes out the window.


----------



## greatwombatski

Yeah I know that feeling, the misses kicked me out a last month and kept my brew fridge. Bitch!


----------



## greatwombatski

Had my 1 week taster today. Bloody brilliant beer!


----------



## slcmorro

If you lads are looking for the 'authentic' experience with S&W PA, you shouldn't be using Cascade or anything outside of Galaxy IMO - S&W don't use it, so why would you?

If you're just looking for a good beer with a mix of hops that play well together, go for your life. Galaxy and Cascade/Amarillo sounds feckin delightful!


----------



## MHB

drfad said:


> I'm looking at putting this one down on the weekend, but when I plug the details into Ian's spreadsheet I get IBUs of 10.4 or 17. depending on whether I have the hop concentration factor on or not. This seems very low for a pale ale. Am I reading it wrong or something?


No too far off, the commercial example is around 16 IBU
Good to see that some Galaxy is available again because Pacific Ale uses only the one hop.
Personally I think you are missing a trick not doing this one as an AG brew, or at least doing a reasonable sized partial. there is I understand about 10% each of Flaked Wheat and Flaked Oats which gives the beer quite a big hunk of its smooth full character and that pearlescent look not to mention the head.
For a 23L batch something like 500g of each of the Oats and Wheat, mini mashed with 1-2Kg of pale malt would help, mind you we are now looking at 2-3Kg of grain and its only another 2.5ish Kg to go all grain, worth it I think.
If you aren't ready to bight the bullet, even just 500g of Oats and 1Kg of Pale Malt mini-mashed in a sauce pan on the stove would be a big step in the right direction.
Mark


----------



## greatwombatski

Sounds like a plan to me MHB. When I get some permanent living arrangements sorted I'm thinking of getting a grainfather + the still stop so I can do AG beer as well as spirits 

Slcmoro, I used100% Galaxy in mine 80gs worth [emoji482]


----------



## DREWBREW

This is a great recipe, I've made it several times now. I was thinking about putting down another batch but adding some dextrose to increase the ABV. Does anyone know what the alcohol % is when made as per the 1st post? And what would it be if I were to add 0.5kg or 1kg of dex?


----------



## PaulG79

Looks like a good recipe. I just put the basics into the spreadsheet and got 5%, that's for bottling with carbonation drops, I don't keg or bulk prime. Think that would make it slightly less but not much. 500gms Dex takes it up to 6%. I reckon for me personally that would be more than enough. I'm not that experienced but I feel like any more and it might start interfering with the flavour.


----------



## Bribie G

MHB would their oats be degermed? I recently did some research into oats, that were historically used in mainstream brewing, especially during malt shortages like WW2. Can't find the reference right now but I believe that the likes of Uncle Toby won't really hack it due to head killing oil content.

Is the degermed one available to home brewers?
I once tried some brewing oats from a sponsor but they were way past their best so chucked them.


----------



## Lionman

I can confirm, I put 500g of Uncle Toby's quick oats into a RIS and it has poor head retention. It has a wonderful mouthfeel but shae there's no head.

I can't find much info about degermed oats. Is there another term for them?

I went to the LHBS and asked for oats there before brewing the RIS, but they had ran out. I asked if the stuff at the supermarket was the same and they didnt know for sure but suspected it was.


----------



## technobabble66

Totally opposite experience. 
As the guys at the recent case swap could testify, a 20% oats red IPA I've recently done has a fantastic (if I do say so myself!) tight creamy head. Definitely seemed to have no issue with oils negatively affecting head retention, if that addresses your concerns. Obviously hops oils would contribute significantly, but it certainly seemed like at the least the oats weren't diminishing the head.

Oh, I used generic brand instant oats.


----------



## MHB

I doubt the Flaked Oats used in brewing are degermed, there are no "brewing" varieties of oats, nor to the best of my knowledge any rolled/flaked product made for specifically for brewing. Malted and Crystal oats being exceptions, but aren't flaked.

Most of the oil is trapped in the grist during mashing, arguably a clear running well recirculated conventional mash (as opposed to BIAB) could reduce the oil going to the kettle, not over sparging nor sparging too hot could also minimise the oil extraction. On balance I wouldn't be too concerned.
I have seen 100% Oat Malt beer, had no head problems, in fact tended to be a bit on the foamy side, so maybe the Oats are rich in head building protein, like Wheat (a guess I would need to do some more research on that one) that makes up for the extra fat content.

Mark


----------



## Fro-Daddy

I have a question about the first recipe posted. 
It specifies 1.5kg of both liquid light extract and liquid wheat malt extract. 
In the instructions you only use 0.52kg of the liquid light in the boil, but put all of the liquid wheat malt in the fermenter.
Does the rest of the liquid light just get put aside or should it all be added to the fermenter?


----------



## Digga

Add the remaining malts after the boil to either the pot or the fermenter. running the number through Ianh's spread sheet gives an OG of 1.040 with all fermentables.
Good luck with the brew!


----------



## PurpleHaze

So I started with the idea of the original recipe posted at the start of this thread but have altered it just like everyone else.

Ended up Buying
American Ale US-05
Black Rock Blonde
Black Rock Wheat
2x Galaxy Hop 25g

I bought 25 L of Pureau Water

Boiled 4L of Water added the 520g of the Blonde Can.
Then cooke the Galaxy Hops
20mins 10g Galaxy
10mins 15g Galaxy
0mins (turned heat off) 20g Galaxy.

I'd say it steeped for 15-30 mins.
I then Cooled down the pot and and added to my wort with the rest of the Extract Cans. Funnily enough I had to bring up the Vessel from 12C to 18 and eventually pitched my liquified US05 at 14-16 degrees, but it would of soon been 18C as the Wort was placed in my fridge with a fitted heat globe and STC-1000 Temp Controller.

The OG was 1.042
Two weeks later it was 1.010 when I transferred it to a secondary fermenter.
I let it sit for two days and then dry hopped 5g of Galaxy (left over) & 25g of Moisac. its been about 1 and half days worth of dry hopping. I plan on dry hopping for 3 days and then Cold Crashing for 1.

So far it tastes pretty strong and smells good. I'm hoping the dry hopping really intensifies the aroma even further.


----------



## PurpleHaze

Side note.. This forum is about as helpful as a Coopers starter kit..


----------



## Bribie G

Is that a compliment?


----------



## Bribie G

MHB said:


> I doubt the Flaked Oats used in brewing are degermed, there are no "brewing" varieties of oats, nor to the best of my knowledge any rolled/flaked product made for specifically for brewing. Malted and Crystal oats being exceptions, but aren't flaked.
> 
> Most of the oil is trapped in the grist during mashing, arguably a clear running well recirculated conventional mash (as opposed to BIAB) could reduce the oil going to the kettle, not over sparging nor sparging too hot could also minimise the oil extraction. On balance I wouldn't be too concerned.
> I have seen 100% Oat Malt beer, had no head problems, in fact tended to be a bit on the foamy side, so maybe the Oats are rich in head building protein, like Wheat (a guess I would need to do some more research on that one) that makes up for the extra fat content.
> 
> Mark


I restocked on RB recently, might give oats another go next stout and see how it turns out.


----------



## Lionman

PurpleHaze said:


> Side note.. This forum is about as helpful as a Coopers starter kit..



Were you expecting a response to your previous post? You didn't ask a question?

On a side not my keg of all grain Pacific Ale blew last night. Might have to do another, it was a great beer.


----------



## captain crumpet

PurpleHaze said:


> Side note.. This forum is about as helpful as a Coopers starter kit..


Do you need instructions on how to use a can opener?

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Can-Opener


----------



## PurpleHaze

captain crumpet said:


> Do you need instructions on how to use a can opener?
> 
> http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Can-Opener



Thanks pal. Really helped..


----------



## PurpleHaze

Lionman said:


> Were you expecting a response to your previous post? You didn't ask a question?
> 
> On a side not my keg of all grain Pacific Ale blew last night. Might have to do another, it was a great beer.



Well given that it is a "forum" I would of thought everything is intended for comment..


----------



## PurpleHaze

captain crumpet said:


> Do you need instructions on how to use a can opener?
> 
> http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Can-Opener



Maybe this could assist you in the future?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/231985-how-to-massage-ones-own-prostate/


----------



## laxation

You might find that the kit section of the forum is a bit quieter than the rest of it - most people do all grain and don't have very much to add.
People are more than willing to help though if you have any questions. Maybe less so though if you tell them to go **** themselves =/
I don't think I've ever been involved in such a helpful forum as this one!


----------



## PurpleHaze

laxation said:


> You might find that the kit section of the forum is a bit quieter than the rest of it - most people do all grain and don't have very much to add.
> People are more than willing to help though if you have any questions. Maybe less so though if you tell them to go **** themselves =/
> I don't think I've ever been involved in such a helpful forum as this one!



I don't recall telling anyone to fo an f#@k themselves. Just matching sarcasm with sarcasm.


----------



## mtb

PurpleHaze said:


> Well given that it is a "forum" I would of thought everything is intended for comment..


Everything is *open* for comment. If nobody has anything to say (because, say, no advice was requested or it's just another recipe), that's no reflection on you nor the forum. If you crave that sort of thing you'd best try posting it to Facebook instead.


----------



## Lionman

PurpleHaze said:


> Well given that it is a "forum" I would of thought everything is intended for comment..



I would suggest if your looking for feedback on a recipe then just ask for it. If not, feel free to share at and then report back with your findings.

My first thought on an extract Pacific Ale would be what % wheat is a can of wheat extract exactly?

According to this its "over 50%" http://www.blackrock.co.nz/malt-extracts/item/69-unhopped-wheat

So I would be more inclined to go for 2 cans of wheat plus some LDME to boost the gravity.

Your hop additions look tasty, might be slightly different due to the mosaic dry hop but it will still be a cracker. Galaxy has a very particular impact on a beer when used as a dry hop.

Also, at only 4L of boil volume I would suspect hop utilization to be impacted. Try to get your boil volume up to at least 8L. Probably not a big issue with such a low IBU brew though.


----------



## PurpleHaze

Lionman said:


> I would suggest if your looking for feedback on a recipe then just ask for it. If not, feel free to share at and then report back with your findings.
> 
> My first thought on an extract Pacific Ale would be what % wheat is a can of wheat extract exactly?
> 
> According to this its "over 50%" http://www.blackrock.co.nz/malt-extracts/item/69-unhopped-wheat
> 
> So I would be more inclined to go for 2 cans of wheat plus some LDME to boost the gravity.
> 
> Your hop additions look tasty, might be slightly different due to the mosaic dry hop but it will still be a cracker. Galaxy has a very particular impact on a beer when used as a dry hop.
> 
> Also, at only 4L of boil volume I would suspect hop utilization to be impacted. Try to get your boil volume up to at least 8L. Probably not a big issue with such a low IBU brew though.



Thanks mate. I'll look at 8L boil next time.
Ive just about to bottle it tonight, after cold crashing it for 3 days. Smells bloody amazing!
Will let you know how it turns out!


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## captain crumpet

PurpleHaze said:


> Maybe this could assist you in the future?
> 
> http://www.livestrong.com/article/231985-how-to-massage-ones-own-prostate/



I don't need the internets help for that. Sounds like you're the shy one.


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## PurpleHaze

captain crumpet said:


> I don't need the internets help for that. Sounds like you're the shy one.


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## Droopy Brew

PurpleHaze said:


> Maybe this could assist you in the future?
> 
> http://www.livestrong.com/article/231985-how-to-massage-ones-own-prostate/


Against my better judgement I clicked on this.
Its amazing what you can find on the internet- how to finger your own arse, brought to you by the Cancer Council of Australia.
"It wont stop prostate cancer but it feels good" (paraprase).


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## peekaboo_jones

LMAO


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## Lachlan Helbig

Hello fellas, just put down a similar brews but with 20g galaxy @ 30 mins, 15g galaxy at 15 mins and 15g galaxy @ flameout. Topped up to 21.5 litres and got a og of 1.043. Don't know why but on Ians spreadsheet the ibus are heaps different with the original recipe. Maybe I goofed it and it will be way bitter but I suppose I'll find out. Have about 40 ish grams to dry hop too, probably for a day before cold crashing. 

Used briess pale malt instead of coopers as well, not that that will make a huge difference. So besides prostate rubbing, has anyone tried anything like this recently?


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## mtb

Galaxy @ 30min might give you some harsh bitterness, it's generally recommended to only use later in the boil. See how you go though, if you've already done the brew, might as well see it through


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## Judanero

My brother did a SWPA clone k'n'k beer,

1 can Mangrove Jacks Blonde
500g Glucose
500g LDME
20g Galaxy @ 5 min 
20g Galaxy dry hop day 4 of ferment

22L batch size.

US-05 Ferment @ 18c.

Tastes pretty close, been a while since I've had a SWPA but I'd say a clone is accurate.
I can't taste any kit twang in it and he recently won a comp with it beating ~50 or so entries all grain entries included.

(He also had no idea what a hydrometer or 'gravity' was and was drinking them after being bottled for two weeks, needless to say it wasn't his brewing skill that made it a decent thirst quencher)


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## laxation

Lachlan Helbig said:


> Don't know why but on Ians spreadsheet the ibus are heaps different with the original recipe


I'm still trying to get the smell out my fingers so I haven't tried this recipe, but have a fiddle with the hop utilisation numbers to see if that fixes the ibu numbers. I don't know how it works but I had troubles figuring out the numbers as well, it was always different from brewers friend so I got confused


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## BrockHops

PurpleHaze said:


> Thanks mate. I'll look at 8L boil next time.
> Ive just about to bottle it tonight, after cold crashing it for 3 days. Smells bloody amazing!
> Will let you know how it turns out!


How'd she go mate?


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## Lachlan Helbig

laxation said:


> I'm still trying to get the smell out my fingers so I haven't tried this recipe, but have a fiddle with the hop utilisation numbers to see if that fixes the ibu numbers. I don't know how it works but I had troubles figuring out the numbers as well, it was always different from brewers friend so I got confused



Yeah I used the hop concentration factor so I guess we'll see how she goes



mtb said:


> Galaxy @ 30min might give you some harsh bitterness, it's generally recommended to only use later in the boil. See how you go though, if you've already done the brew, might as well see it through



I did consider this but I just wasn't getting the IBUs high enough with 20mins. Couldn't detect any real harsh bitterness in the wort itself, but maybe after all is said and done it will appear in the finished brew. If it did turn out like shit just gives me another excuse to do another brew! Have heaps of little creatures 568ml bottles to be used


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## laxation

I used galaxy at 60min for a couple of brews, and pretty much as soon as I finished the second brew I found out that I wasn't supposed to do that

but both the beers were still delicious, so don't worry too much about it (that was the best advice I got here when i was asking about hops and stuff!)


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## PurpleHaze

BrockHops said:


> How'd she go mate?



I'll let you know in the next 4-5 days. Bottled it about a week and a half ago. its been in the fridge at 19-20c (controlled by an stc-1000)


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## Lachlan Helbig

Right so in a few days I've got dry hopping coming up, planning on using 40g of galaxy. I only want it in there for 24-48 hours before cold crashing then bottling. How do you guys generally go about dry hopping? In the past I've tried chucking it in the fermenter with a hop sock and without, but planning to used a sanitized marble (to act as a weight) with a hop sock to get it on the bottom this time. Is there any discernible difference between these methods?


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## Fro-Daddy

I made it as per the attached file because I was lazy and just wanted to use full containers of LME. Carbed it last night and tasted it today, better than I thought it would be. 
It's worth noting that this was my first boiled extract brew, so it might not be the best. Flavours seemed a little harsh in the hydrometer samples but it finished well.


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## Judanero

Lachlan Helbig said:


> Right so in a few days I've got dry hopping coming up, planning on using 40g of galaxy. I only want it in there for 24-48 hours before cold crashing then bottling. How do you guys generally go about dry hopping? In the past I've tried chucking it in the fermenter with a hop sock and without, but planning to used a sanitized marble (to act as a weight) with a hop sock to get it on the bottom this time. Is there any discernible difference between these methods?



Just throw them in loose, they will drop out during the cold crash. The marble(s) in the hopsock trick will also work if you're set on a hopsock.


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## laxation

When I was learning & reading about dry-hopping, opinions were very split about the best way to do it. Ultimately throwing it in is just SO much easier, so I do that a few days before cold-crashing.

I think the only reason you wouldn't do it, is if you were using a shit-ton of dry hops for an IPA or something like that; you don't lose as much beer because of the trub if you use a sock.


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## PurpleHaze

So I tried one last night. 2 weeks after bottling it.
It was a a little gassy as you can tell by the bubbles.

But it tasted amazing, smelled amazing and was very close to a Stone and Wood!


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## Droopy Brew

Well done mate, good to get an outcome you were chasing.
If I can be picky and give some feedback for a sec- You certainly seem to have some carbonation there but it looks to have no head.
If you are doing a hop boil and using extract cans can I suggest getting some swiss voile and steeping 250g of crushed carapils for 30 minutes before boiling and doing your hop additions.
This will give your beer more body and head retention. It is also a great way to progress into making more customised beers once you get the hang of it by introducing other spec malts. S&W isnt a beer you need a lot of spec malts in as it is fairly basic malt profile but the carapils will definitely improve it.


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## Lionman

PurpleHaze said:


> So I tried one last night. 2 weeks after bottling it.
> It was a a little gassy as you can tell by the bubbles.
> 
> But it tasted amazing, smelled amazing and was very close to a Stone and Wood!



The bubbles on the glass are caused by you not cleaning your class properly 

I think you will get better head if you up the wheat in your recipe too. Meant to be 40% wheat but with the wheat extract only being 40% itself, the total amount in the recipe is quite a bit less. You could also try adding dry wheat malt extract rather than normal DME too.

https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/beer/brewing-adjuncts-and-beer-enhancers/dry-wheat-malt-extract-500g

Steeped grains will definitely help though!


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## PurpleHaze

So after the S&W Clone attempt I went on to try make a Partial Extract Verision of a Pirate Life IPA. It came out more like a a session ale about 5.5%. 

After that was a Ginger Ale. Which sort of hit the mark.

I have then decided to combine parts of the S&W and Pirate life to make some sort of Hoppy Pacific Ale Hybrid.

This is what I’ve just put down & also just Kegged for the first time!!

Pacific Life Chinook Pale Ale
23 Litres (10L Boil)


Steeped Grains 
(30Mins 65-80ć)
300gm Crystal 20L
300gm CaraPils

Then added to 7L of water and boiled with.

1.7kg Light Liquid Extract
1.7kg Pilsner Blonde

Once Boiling Temp was 100ć
Hop Schedule

50gm Centennial- 60 mins 
25gm Chinook - 30 mins
25gm Galaxy - Flame Out (Stirred)

10 Mins sitting with lid on.

Transferred from Boil to FerMenter with 5L chilled water through strainer & then topped up to 23L.

Allowed for 1-1.5 Hrs for temp to drop and steady off at 18-22 degrees.

Wort then Airated for 1-2 mins (With Stirring Paddle attached to Drill)

Yeast Pitched Dry.
Us-05 x2
OG 1042 (12/11/18)
1013 (15/11/18)
1009 (18/11/18)
1009 (21/11/18)
FG 1009 (22/11/18)

Dry hopped 25g Galaxy 22/11/18
Cold Crashed at 3.5c 25/11/18

*Kegged & Force Carbed sideways at 35PSI & then dropped to 15PSI afterwoods. 27/11/18


*


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## PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze said:


> So after the S&W Clone attempt I went on to try make a Partial Extract Verision of a Pirate Life IPA. It came out more like a a session ale about 5.5%.
> 
> After that was a Ginger Ale. Which sort of hit the mark.
> 
> I have then decided to combine parts of the S&W and Pirate life to make some sort of Hoppy Pacific Ale Hybrid.
> 
> This is what I’ve just put down & also just Kegged for the first time!!
> 
> Pacific Life Chinook Pale Ale
> 23 Litres (10L Boil)
> 
> 
> Steeped Grains
> (30Mins 65-80ć)
> 300gm Crystal 20L
> 300gm CaraPils
> 
> Then added to 7L of water and boiled with.
> 
> 1.7kg Light Liquid Extract
> 1.7kg Pilsner Blonde
> 
> Once Boiling Temp was 100ć
> Hop Schedule
> 
> 50gm Centennial- 60 mins
> 25gm Chinook - 30 mins
> 25gm Galaxy - Flame Out (Stirred)
> 
> 10 Mins sitting with lid on.
> 
> Transferred from Boil to FerMenter with 5L chilled water through strainer & then topped up to 23L.
> 
> Allowed for 1-1.5 Hrs for temp to drop and steady off at 18-22 degrees.
> 
> Wort then Airated for 1-2 mins (With Stirring Paddle attached to Drill)
> 
> Yeast Pitched Dry.
> Us-05 x2
> OG 1042 (12/11/18)
> 1013 (15/11/18)
> 1009 (18/11/18)
> 1009 (21/11/18)
> FG 1009 (22/11/18)
> 
> Dry hopped 25g Galaxy 22/11/18
> Cold Crashed at 3.5c 25/11/18
> 
> *Kegged & Force Carbed sideways at 35PSI & then dropped to 15PSI afterwoods. 27/11/18
> 
> *


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## MrEflord

I'm going to have a go at the OP's recipe as I've got a Managrove Jack's golden lager and pure liquid malt extract from their craft series. Add in the 100g of galaxy which is coming next week. And I should get a good drop.

I'm a big of S&W. I was lucky enough to visit them the day they were bottling the "Draught Ale" for the first time...


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