# Young's Double Chocolate Stout



## stew.w (25/2/09)

anyone made a clone or similar of youngs double chocolate stout?
had my first bottle of it today and loved it
either extract or i think i could handle mini mash

Cheers,

Stew


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## andrewl (25/2/09)

Sorry mate, don't have a recipe for you... But I can vouch for the fact that its a great beer! Probably one of the best on the market in my eyes


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## Murcluf (25/2/09)

BYB took me to the wheaty and he bought one as a roadie .......... :icon_drool2: it was memorable taste bud experience, reliving the moment as I type mmmmmmm yum. I haven't got a recipe but I wish you all the best in finding one. :icon_cheers:


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## Back Yard Brewer (25/2/09)

Give AdamT's recipe a bash Chocolate Stout on tap at the Xmas case swap. Memorable

BYB

Edit: Don't know where in hell Adam pulled the name from.


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## hazard (25/2/09)

Stew.W said:


> anyone made a clone or similar of youngs double chocolate stout?



Try Google - it works.

http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=4472

Though I read the label on Young's once (never tasted it), and I think it had oats in it? Have you got the bottle still?


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## hazard (25/2/09)

[Here's another...

http://www.burrstreetbrewblog.com/2009/01/...tout-clone.html

http://beertribe.com/forum/index.php?topic=668.0

http://www.brew-wineforum.com/shwmessage.a...messageid=67309

There's plenty more, just use Google


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## dr K (25/2/09)

I have an unopened bottle (courtesy of one of the good and honest members of Canberra Brewers) right here in front of me. Oats are certainly listed as an ingredient. Not so unusual, Bitter and Twisted use 4% Malted Oats, along with 5 % Torrified Wheat.
Anyway here is a linkYoungs DCS
It is such a great beer I think you find it difficult to clone well.

K


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## jayse (25/2/09)

I really hate the word clone.
Why try clone some sort of beer when you can just make something similiar, start from the basics and make something from scratch, learn how to brew and you'll never use the word clone ever again.


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## Luka (25/2/09)

If you're using choc essence go very easy on it. One of the guys in the BBC made a choc stout and that stuff is potent, you dont need much


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## Muggus (25/2/09)

Great beer.

And according to a bottle it contains "plenty of chocolate malt and real dark chocolate".

I'm guessing in the dark chocolate goes in boil and/or mash. Never made anything using chocolate, but it would help having a good stout base to begin.


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## peas_and_corn (25/2/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Give AdamT's recipe a bash Chocolate Stout on tap at the Xmas case swap. Memorable
> 
> BYB
> 
> Edit: Don't know where in hell Adam pulled the name from.



Read this for real info and this for the lolz.


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## Back Yard Brewer (26/2/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Read this for real info and this for the lolz.




FFS Adam :blink: 


BYB


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## Adamt (26/2/09)

Submit to His noodly embrace.


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## PostModern (26/2/09)

jayse said:


> I really hate the word clone.
> Why try clone some sort of beer when you can just make something similiar, start from the basics and make something from scratch, learn how to brew and you'll never use the word clone ever again.



Right there with you, jayse. 



Adamt said:


> Submit to His noodly embrace.



RAmen.


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## SJW (26/2/09)

I know its a Porter but it came out very close. Just sub some pale for extract for mini mash

Choc Porter 
Robust Porter 


Type: All Grain
Date: 12/05/2008 
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 32.05 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg Beer 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5000.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 76.34 % 
500.00 gm Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 7.63 % 
500.00 gm Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain 7.63 % 
300.00 gm Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 4.58 % 
200.00 gm Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 3.05 % 
50.00 gm Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) Grain 0.76 % 
70.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 31.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 8.2 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
150.00 gm Lindt 85% Cacao Chocolate (Boil 20.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (US-56) (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.061 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.018 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.04 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.48 % 
Bitterness: 39.8 IBU Calories: 574 cal/l 
Est Color: 76.0 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 6550.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 13.61 L Grain Temperature: 15.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 15.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 76.8 C 68.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 90.0 C 76.0 C


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## Duff (5/4/10)

Bump.

With winter coming up, I'm going to brew a couple of stouts for me and my Dad. I've had the YDCS a few times in bottles and enjoyed it, but absolutely loved it on tap recently in San Diego at The Yardhouse.

Here's what I'm thinking so far. There's no lactose in it as yet, as I think I can get enough sweetness with mash temp plus yeast.

Thoughts? Has anyone worked on something?

Cheers.

Double Chocolate Stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.20
Anticipated OG: 1.053 Plato: 13.21
Anticipated SRM: 32.3
Anticipated IBU: 29.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
65.2 6.00 kg. Pale Ale Malt (2-row) Australia 1.037 2
10.9 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8
8.2 0.75 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 475
6.5 0.60 kg. JWM Crystal 140 Australia 1.035 74
6.5 0.60 kg. Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
2.7 0.25 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Challenger Pellet 7.90 29.0 90 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
500.00 gm Cocoa Other 5 Min.(boil) 

Also have Chocolate Essence to add to taste in the keg.


Yeast
-----

Something English - maybe 1026


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## FNQ Bunyip (5/4/10)

Brought one of these at dans a couple of weeks back for the Brew Wench ,,, mmmm very nice ..

I've got a clone recipe ,, in BYO 150 clasic clones (off too the bed side cupboard )


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## FNQ Bunyip (5/4/10)

Lol , just read the rest of the thred ... its on the list here as one I've got to do ...

Next time I see ya I'll bring the clone mag over for you too have a look at .. 

cheers


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## Sully (5/4/10)

FNQ Bunyip said:


> Brought one of these at dans a couple of weeks back for the Brew Wench ,,, mmmm very nice ..
> 
> I've got a clone recipe ,, in BYO 150 clasic clones (off too the bed side cupboard )





This one has been adapted out of the BYO 150 Clone mag. came out pretty close to YDCS.


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## DKS (5/4/10)

Hey Duff,
I would suspect you've searched the recipe DB? I've tried sully's choc choc stout , listed. I don't know how close it is but it was modeled on the Youngs double. I had the two a few weeks apart. It was very good and there was much conjecture over which was better. Sully had used mixed nitogen(?) and co2 for this one which added to that tight silky smooth head and feel.You could smell it from a distance. Anyway check database if you haven't already, may give some clues. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


Edit : Ah! Too slow again.


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## Thunderlips (29/10/10)

Bringing this one up again....

As far as stout kits go, I was quite happy with the bog standard Coopers kit I made a few years back.

Once it's kegged could you just add chocolate essence?
Has anyone tried it?
How much essence would you add?


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## Luxo_Aussie (21/6/20)

Bringing up an old thread rather than starting a new one... What would be a good yeast to go for Young's Double Chocolate Stout? I've got a book telling me to go with wyeast 1768 (English Special Bitter) or 1968 (London ESB) but I'm leaning towards 1318 (London Ale III) after some reading online.

Any ideas on the best yeast for a Sweet Stout?


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## MHB (21/6/20)

There is a very good version of this beer in the BYO 250 Recipe book.
Haven't got mine handy and cant remember the yeast recommended. The grain bill was very simple Pale, Light Crystal and Chocolate Malt, Fuggle at 60 minutes and a small addition of Golding late.
Will dig the book up (might take a couple of days) and let you know the yeast.
Oh Lactose and Sucrose late to.
Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.
Mark


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## Dave70 (22/6/20)

MHB said:


> There is a very good version of this beer in the *BYO 250 Recipe book.*
> Haven't got mine handy and cant remember the yeast recommended. The grain bill was very simple Pale, Light Crystal and Chocolate Malt, Fuggle at 60 minutes and a small addition of Golding late.
> Will dig the book up (might take a couple of days) and let you know the yeast.
> Oh Lactose and Sucrose late to.
> ...



Mark, how would you rate that book in terms of the 'clones' being fairly on point?


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## MHB (22/6/20)

Actually among the best, many of the American recipes were built with input from the brewers who make the commercial versions. Most of the UK and European ones are very compatible with what you see in books from Graham Wheeler, he and Roger Protz had very good access to brewery info in their part of the world.
On balance very good starting point, way better than the crap fest in books like brew like a monk or clone brews...
Mark


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## Meddo (22/6/20)

Is that the same as this one BYO Clones book @MHB? It has 300 recipes!

The Brew Your Own Big Book of Clone Recipes: 300 Home Brew Recipes From Your Favourite Breweries


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## MHB (22/6/20)

Haven't got that one, the first version (150 recipes) and the second 200, now 300 and another dent in the wallet.
Given the 150 and 200 were pretty good I'll look forward to the 300 arriving.
Mark


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## Coalminer (22/6/20)

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A$39.22 delivered
Pretty good price


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## Luxo_Aussie (22/6/20)

This is actually the book I was mentioning, the 300 recipe version.

Young's Double Chocolate Stout 
For 19L it calls for and OG of 1.053, FG of 1.013, 28 IBU's, SRM of 35 & ABV of 5.2%.

3.2 Kg Pale ale malt
0.31 Kg English medium crystal malt
591 ml Choclaca liquid cacao
0.34 Kg Lactose sugar (15min)
0.23 Kg Invert sugar - 70L (15min)
0.11 Kg Cane sugar (15min)
0.17 Kg Cocoa powder (15min)
40g Fuggle hops (60min)
7g East Kent Goldings (15min)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15min) 
1/4 tsp. yeast nutrient (15min)
9.4g natural chocolate extract (secondary) 
Wyeast 1768 (English Special Bitter) or 1968 (London ESB) 

Mash at 67 for 60 minutes, ferment at 20 degrees.

I'm a bit dubious of the color for this recipe, no roast barley or chocolate malt? There is chocolate malt mentioned in the initial description but not under ingredients "Young's uses a blend of real dark chocolate and chocolate essence, as well as crystal, chocolate malt and lactose". I'll use this as a starting point but would use MO in lieu of Pale, add some oats, chocolate & munich. Still not sure on their yeast selected, 1318 (London Ale III) has some of the better reviews concerning sweet stouts.



MHB said:


> Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.


I was planning on using the cocoa nibs (adding at bottling after steeping in a tincture for a few weeks & straining) would this still adversely affect the head?


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## MHB (22/6/20)

Fats and oils bugger the head retention of beer. I did the ANZAC beer this year for work and went with a Coconut Essence for exactly this reason, its hard to sell beer without a decent head.
The recipe you have there is a bit different from the one I recall, it had Chocolate malt Xal and Pale, I wouldn't choose Maris, doubt you would taste the Maris over the chocolate so why spend the extra.
Invert is a joke, yeast is quite capable of inverting sugar without any help from us. Recommending both invert and cane sugar in the same recipe is ridiculous.
Hops look about right (again from memory).
Mark


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## MHB (22/6/20)

Sorry, just had a reread-
They are using Dark Invert syrup for colour rather than Chocolate Malt. Not sure about Europe but here you would need to be using either Treacle or a darkish Belgian Candi Syrup. Cant see how they get the beer colour unless the Chocolate specified is very dark.
Mark


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## MHB (24/6/20)

Found the Mag, they recommend W1318 London Ale 3.
Mark


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## Alhoare (25/6/20)

This sounds awesome so will try something similar using what I have at home -:
4.5kg Pale Ale Malt, BB
0.1kg Light Choc Malt, Glad
500g Dark Candi Sugar
350g Roasted Barley, Simpsons
300g Med Crystal, Glad
40g [email protected]
15g East [email protected]
15g Choc Extract in secondary
W1318
Only need to get the yeast and extract so will see how it turns out.


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## Alhoare (25/6/20)

Typo that should be 0.1kg Light Choc Malt. 
1kg would definitely make it dark but probably a little over the top.


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## bird (3/7/20)

MHB said:


> Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.
> Mark


Hey Mark. 
Made a basic porter recently which has come out really nice. But would love to add some chocolate flavor to it. I have brought some creme de cacao but was wondering how much to add per litre? 
Thanks


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## MHB (3/7/20)

Around the whole bottle into a keg so close to 1mL/L. Going to be a large element of personal taste involved but think thats a good starting place.
Mark


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## bird (3/7/20)

MHB said:


> Around the whole bottle into a keg so close to 1mL/L. Going to be a large element of personal taste involved but think thats a good starting place.
> Mark


Thanks Mark. Have a keg and a half of porter and 2 bottles of creme de cacao so will experiment and see what works.


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## peterlonz (4/7/20)

I have little doubt Creme De Cacoa will provide the desired chocolate flavour.
But it's an expensive addition.
Most recipes call for the use of nibs, & that's what the commercial brewers use AFASIK.
Can't comment from personal experience about any tendency of nibs to effect the head adversely.
Surely we have lots of home brewers who know the effect of using nibs?


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## bird (4/7/20)

peterlonz said:


> I have little doubt Creme De Cacoa will provide the desired chocolate flavour.
> But it's an expensive addition.
> Most recipes call for the use of nibs, & that's what the commercial brewers use AFASIK.
> Can't comment from personal experience about any tendency of nibs to effect the head adversely.
> Surely we have lots of home brewers who know the effect of using nibs?


I only paid 6 dollars per bottle so happy with the price. I'm sure choc nibs would be much cheaper but convenience is a big selling point for me. Look forward to trying it out this afternoon. Will let you know how it goes.


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## MHB (4/7/20)

peterlonz said:


> I have little doubt Creme De Cacoa will provide the desired chocolate flavour.
> But it's an expensive addition.
> Most recipes call for the use of nibs, & that's what the commercial brewers use AFASIK.
> Can't comment from personal experience about any tendency of nibs to effect the head adversely.
> Surely we have lots of home brewers who know the effect of using nibs?


I think reading the label on a bottle of Youngs might change your mind!
They say Coco powder and chocolate extract. Most commercial brewers will go to great lengths to avoid anything that will damage the head on beer, not much kills head faster than fats.
Things with a high fat content like Coconut (Desiccated ~27%) Cocoa nibs (46%) Coco powder is what is left after you extract the Coco butter, fat content is down to about 14%.
Good quality "Liquor" flavours are fat free, you could try making a sugar/water/alcohol mix and doing your own extraction. I like the flavours made by Prestige just because they taste the best, have used Coconut, Chocolate, Raspberry, Rum Cherry (think cherry ripe porter) all with good results.
Just another tool in the kit, if you want to do some gastro brewing.
Mark


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## bird (5/7/20)

I'm sold mark. Added 1ml a litre to my porter and the choc flavor comes through beautiful. Was a hit with all my mates. One which works at a brewery and dissed the idea because he thought the choc flavor would be artificial but he loved it. Time to dose the second keg. Thanks again will work on the cherry ripe porter next time. Sounds delicious.


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## MHB (5/7/20)

Glad you are happy. Just go easy (very) on the coconut, it tends to dominate at pretty small doses.
One lesson I learned early on was that its a lot easier to add more later than it is to go back and add less.
Mark


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## BrewLizard (5/7/20)

Reading this thread with great interest. I have the BYO Big Book of (300) Clone Recipes, and don't really trust the recipe due to its description saying the beer has chocolate malt, and then not including any in their grain bill (as mentioned on the previous page). Going add pale chocolate malt in roughly the proportions from this clone.

I'm also thinking of substituting both sugars for just golden syrup, as it's mostly inverted, and has a bit of colour. Though MHB makes a good point that it really shouldn't matter much...


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## MHB (5/7/20)

If you look back at the recipe that uses invert syrup its listed as 70L(post #29), close to black at around 180EBC Treacle might be closer.
Treacle what Americans call molasses, not the term we use, what we call molasses they call Black Strap... would add a lot more colour.
Me I would rather rely on Chocolate malt for colour. Adding any sugar (sucrose or invert) later in the ferment, too much available sucrose early on can make the yeast lazy so it fails to attenuate well.
Mark


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## peterlonz (6/7/20)

A successful commercial "craft brewer" I talked to in NZ advised nibs for the flavour with of course chocolate malt grains.
It was intended as a confidential tip so I can't say more except the chocolate stout made there was exceptional.
At that time I knew too little to question the issue of fats defeating the head.
The use of nibs is now seen quite frequently so I can't see it being too much of a problem?


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## contrarian (7/7/20)

peterlonz said:


> A successful commercial "craft brewer" I talked to in NZ advised nibs for the flavour with of course chocolate malt grains.
> It was intended as a confidential tip so I can't say more except the chocolate stout made there was exceptional.
> At that time I knew too little to question the issue of fats defeating the head.
> The use of nibs is now seen quite frequently so I can't see it being too much of a problem?



I’ve tried a number of ways to add chocolate to beer and cacao nibs is by far and away the best I have used (I haven’t used an extract).

My method is to steep them in vodka for a week or two, strain and then you can add to taste the in the fermenter. 

In my experience adding chocolate, cocoa etc to the boil adds very little to the finished beer.


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## peterlonz (7/7/20)

Now that's a great tip which I probably would not have thought of.
Can you say the amount of nibs & Vodka you use in what I presume is a 23 litre brew.


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## MHB (7/7/20)

As above Water/Sucrose/Alcohol is a better solvent than just Alcohol/Water, sugar acts as what is called a "carrier" in food chemistry. Means it drags some flavour's along with it.
Mark


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## contrarian (7/7/20)

peterlonz said:


> Now that's a great tip which I probably would not have thought of.
> Can you say the amount of nibs & Vodka you use in what I presume is a 23 litre brew.



I'd start with about 100-150g and cover completely vodka. When you are ready to add to the fermenter take a sample of the beer that is a known quantity, say 100mL and then add 1mL at a time and taste until it is where you want it. Although remember that every sip changes ratios etc. 

Full disclosure though, I have always just strained the lot in and it has been fine. Just use a fine strainer because little bits of nibs in kegs or bottles is a pain!


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## Luxo_Aussie (7/7/20)

MHB said:


> As above Water/Sucrose/Alcohol is a better solvent than just Alcohol/Water, sugar acts as what is called a "carrier" in food chemistry. Means it drags some flavour's along with it.
> Mark


What's your ratio for this mix? I'm just making my first spice tincture with only vodka & spices - curious to know how much sucrose / dextrose to put in. 

Furthermore, I'm guessing if there's sugar in the mix then it would be necessary to add and then allow for it to ferment out prior to bottling/kegging or adjust the bulk priming quantity if going in that direction.


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## MHB (7/7/20)

Somewhere in the 10-12%W/V sugar/liquor range would be good, I would be tempted to use about 4-5 times the solvent to nibs. So if you extracted say 100g of nibs at 25% we are talking something like 300mL of solvent at 10% we are talking about 30g of sugar. Across 23L it isn't much of a much add very late in the ferment or use as part of your bulk priming calculation...
Mark

Just a thought
Some herbs don't give a very nice flavour when alcohol extracted, you can get very different flavour's from hot and cold extraction. Have a little book somewhere called "Straightforward Liqueur Making" by Gerry Fowles, lot of good basic info worth having a look.
M


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## Coalminer (8/7/20)

peterlonz said:


> A successful commercial "craft brewer" I talked to in NZ advised nibs for the flavour with of course chocolate malt grains.
> It was intended as a confidential tip so I can't say more except the chocolate stout made there was exceptional.
> At that time I knew too little to question the issue of fats defeating the head.
> The use of nibs is now seen quite frequently so I can't see it being too much of a problem?


I have used nibs many times with good success. some tricks are:
crush the nibs (sturdy plastic bag and hammer the shit out of them on concrete floor)
Lay out thinly on paper towels on a baking tray and put in the oven @ 160C for 15min - lots of oil ends up in paper towel
soak in vodka for a few days and all into the fermenter
(I treat my shredded coconut the same way)
Don't usually have much problem with head
But in saying that I have also used Prestige brand Creme De Cacao liquer with good success (3rd State and 3rd Nationals)
Prestige brand hard to come by, Top Shelf common but have not tried that brand
Hmm have not tried the water/sugar with the vodka yet but I will soon, Thanks Mark


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## Luxo_Aussie (10/7/20)

Watched Fast Homebrew's latest video this morning and started thinking about the roasting the cocoa nibs. From reading a bit on a BYO article and on a BeerAdvocate thread + AHA thread looks like roasting before making the tincture is the way to go - is this fair to say? 

I've seen mixed opinions for using cocoa powder late in the boil for the Double Chocolate Stout, and also much lower quantities than what's been suggested in the 300 clone book (50-100g tops). Worth skipping the powder to just use the cocoa nibs tincture?


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