# Double pipe wort chiller



## dropbear85 (16/11/15)

Anyone made one of these?

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2849-double-pipe-wort-chiller-projects

I have made a CFC but I find when I recirculate hot wort through it for 10 min to sanitize it before chilling the outer hose gets soft and floppy and I usually get a bit of a leak where it clamps on to the copper fittings. I reckon this might solve the problem


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## Cervantes (16/11/15)

No, but I've researched them and they look the goods.

My only concern would be how much wort you loose to the cooling system it's self. I reckon that you would loose a couple of liters in a decent sized version.

This is worth a watch. It's a three part series................

https://youtu.be/KhWdLYlpGf4

https://youtu.be/znOZCIdTk4o

https://youtu.be/KhWdLYlpGf4


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## MaltyHops (16/11/15)

You shouldn't lose much wort if you just reverse the wort connections at the end and recover the remaining wort by gravity draining it out. Could get a bit messy but with addition of some ball valves could help make it a bit cleaner.

Neat idea.

Also instead of using silicon hose to join the ends, I could imagine using copper elbows and tubes held in place with metal strips and clamps.


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## MartinOC (16/11/15)

If anyone's looking for the industrial solution, I have (from memory!) 4 x 3m SS lengths + a SS return pipe that a mate sold me before he moved to NZ that I'm not using. They'll need a good clean, but if you want them, make me an offer......

I'd post-up photo's, but I left the camera at work. I'll do it tomorrow.


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## idzy (16/11/15)

With my counter flow chiller, I just connect it to the HLT afterwards and redirect the flow to a bucket. Once it starts to change colour you have most of your wort out. Add the contents from bucket back in.

In terms of this design, I would have thought the standard counterflow type design might be easier and produce better results. I will see if I can find a video.


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## idzy (16/11/15)

Here it is. This video is gold in my opinion. This is how mine is designed, except it uses A/C piping from a car, rather than the clear stuff in this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVf-lTFpR2c


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## crowmanz (16/11/15)

idzy said:


> In terms of this design, I would have thought the standard counterflow type design might be easier and produce better results. I will see if I can find a video.


The guy in your video has moved onto using the parallel/double pipe counter flow chiller. See the videos Cervantes linked.

Main reasons i think he mentions are space, the parallel version can tuck up against the wall, and you can spot check that the chiller is clean, in the traditional CFC chiller you cant look down the pipe to see if there is anything in there.


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## dropbear85 (16/11/15)

Cervantes said:


> No, but I've researched them and they look the goods.
> 
> My only concern would be how much wort you loose to the cooling system it's self. I reckon that you would loose a couple of liters in a decent sized version.
> 
> ...


interesting videos. 
I reckon you could save a lot of cash by pissing off the compression fittings and just use end caps with a hole drilled in them and seal it with some high temp silicon.


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## Eagleburger (16/11/15)

I had one. Just finished cutting up the pvc for a water dispenser for the chooks. Use a plate chiller now.


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## Dave70 (17/11/15)

Interesting to see how much more efficient the plain old stainless immersion chiller on the BM worked in a side by side comparo with the Grainfathers CF system.
The action starts around the 10.30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-13UGBuJSc


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## Mattrox (17/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> Interesting to see how much more efficient the plain old stainless immersion chiller on the BM worked in a side by side comparo with the Grainfathers CF system.
> The action starts around the 10.30.



Was he returning chilled wort back into the GF to measure cooling ability or did he only do it for sterilisation? I can't watch the whole vid on my phone...

When I've seen the GF chiller in action, they put cooled wort straight in the FV.

It's actually not a measure of efficiency because to directly compare because you need know surface area of each chiller. It's like saying a supercharged v8 is more efficient than a turbo 4 cylinder because it won a drag race.


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## dropbear85 (17/11/15)

yeah for some reason he returns back into the main vessel for the whole chilling phase instead of going straight to the fermenter. Doesn't make sense to me because you are chilling the wort then reheating it again. The other reason it was so inefficient in this video is because the pump kept blocking


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## Droopy Brew (17/11/15)

For a princely sum of $120 you can get a neat and compact plate chiller ready to go and will do just as good a job. I dont see the reason to go this way unless of course you just want to build shit. And lets face it, who around here doesnt just like to build shit cos they can.


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## dropbear85 (17/11/15)

plate chillers clog and I have all the copper


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## Pistolpete01 (17/11/15)

dropbear85 said:


> Anyone made one of these?
> 
> http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2849-double-pipe-wort-chiller-projects
> 
> I have made a CFC but I find when I recirculate hot wort through it for 10 min to sanitize it before chilling the outer hose gets soft and floppy and I usually get a bit of a leak where it clamps on to the copper fittings. I reckon this might solve the problem


Do you rekon it would be hard to incorporate a pond pump/ice bath into this for hitting lower temps than ground water? If you had tap water for the first three quarters and ice water pumped through the last quarter?


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## fraser_john (17/11/15)

dropbear85 said:


> yeah for some reason he returns back into the main vessel for the whole chilling phase <snip>


One reason to do this is flame out hop additions in the kettle, they still get a bit of heat, enough to extract out the aroma, but are chilled down to below 80c quick enough to avoid iosmerisation (.sp?).


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## fraser_john (17/11/15)

Cervantes said:


> <snip>
> 
> My only concern would be how much wort you loose to the cooling system it's self. I reckon that you would loose a couple of liters in a decent sized version.
> 
> <snip>


Losses should be minimal if designed/built right, on the laterals if you make one side a little higher than the other when joining t-piece it will draing from one side to the other by gravity, so slope left->right on first run, right->left on second run, left->right third run etc. Should drain perfectly and leave nothing behind.


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## Mattrox (17/11/15)

fraser_john said:


> One reason to do this is flame out hop additions in the kettle, they still get a bit of heat, enough to extract out the aroma, but are chilled down to below 80c quick enough to avoid iosmerisation (.sp?).


Wouldn't you do a flame out addition while doing the hot wort sterilisation of the chiller, then put the hose into the FV? Seems like wasting the efficiency of a CF chiller by turning it into a small external "immersion" chiller.


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## fraser_john (17/11/15)

Mattrox said:


> Wouldn't you do a flame out addition while doing the hot wort sterilisation of the chiller, then put the hose into the FV? Seems like wasting the efficiency of a CF chiller by turning it into a small external "immersion" chiller.


Also leaves cold trub behind, all methods work in the end though  As long as it is drinkable.


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## Dave70 (17/11/15)

Droopy Brew said:


> For a princely sum of $120 you can get a neat and compact plate chiller ready to go and will do just as good a job. I dont see the reason to go this way unless of course you just want to build shit. And lets face it, who around here doesnt just like to build shit cos they can.


Absolutely!

Before I wound up a bunch of 1/2 tube I entertained the idea of plugging in as off the shelf auto transmission cooler fitted with a thermo fan in the style of the one pictured. Hey, worked like a charm on my old Statesman where the fluid temps routinely topped the 100 deg mark. 
Grab a 240 / 12v adapter from your preferred electronics purveyor (or some jumper leads in a pinch) and some silicone tube + clamps and your good to go.
Gotta be easier to clean than a bunch of hoses.
Run the wort through at a trickle via gravity or pump it through remotely. You could even stick it the freezer fro better results!
Take _that_ Craftbrewer..


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## MartinOC (17/11/15)

OK, gents, here it is as promised....

A brewer mate of mine is an engineer who used to commission industrial food-processing plants & scored them from somewhere... h34r: Each length is 3m.

He had this set-up in his brewery (mounted on the wall as per above comments) & was able to get an 80L boil to pitching temp's in about 20 minutes on Melbourne tap water, recirculating back into the boiler to create a whirlpool. He didn't do things by halves.....





I paid him $150 at mate's rates for them, but I'm open to offers, as I don't use them. Melbourne only - I ain't posting these puppies!!


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## Mardoo (17/11/15)

wow...


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## MartinOC (17/11/15)

Mardoo said:


> wow...


Mardoo, you'd be amazed at the stuff I have up here.......I've been collecting for 30 years.....I just don't publicise it......


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## Howlingdog (17/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> Take _that_ Craftbrewer..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dave70 (17/11/15)

Pretty much ballpark actually for something similar. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30-rows-AN10-High-Performance-Transmission-Engine-Aluminum-Oil-Cooler-Fan-/251449335327?hash=item3a8b8c5e1f:g:qPEAAOxycmBS-z6L

Curious eh? I am. Kind of.


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## Mardoo (17/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> Pretty much ballpark actually for something similar.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30-rows-AN10-High-Performance-Transmission-Engine-Aluminum-Oil-Cooler-Fan-/251449335327?hash=item3a8b8c5e1f:g:qPEAAOxycmBS-z6L
> 
> Curious eh? I am. Kind of.


To infinity, and beyond! I am totally interested. I'm thinking chuck that in a running freezer. What temps would you end up with on single pass? Or how long to pitching temp if recirculating?


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## Dave70 (18/11/15)

One of my neighbors is an air con mechanic and has plenty of busted units with tasty, multiple core copper and aluminium heat exchanges like this just sitting around.
So long as you can totally clean the system of R22 gas that is. Probably mess up your hop profile..
Certainly be no big deal to boil the kettle and do a a dummy run and see if its worth taking to the next level.

Is there a thermal engineer in the house who could bring some tricky maths to bear?


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## idzy (18/11/15)

MartinOC said:


> OK, gents, here it is as promised....
> 
> A brewer mate of mine is an engineer who used to commission industrial food-processing plants & scored them from somewhere... h34r: Each length is 3m.
> 
> ...


Martin, very inspirational...

China are busy at work, as we speak, to make a replica...



EDIT: Losses unknown at this stage...


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## sp0rk (18/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> One of my neighbors is an air con mechanic and has plenty of busted units with tasty, multiple core copper and aluminium heat exchanges like this just sitting around.
> So long as you can totally clean the system of R22 gas that is. Probably mess up your hop profile..
> Certainly be no big deal to boil the kettle and do a a dummy run and see if its worth taking to the next level.
> 
> Is there a thermal engineer in the house who could bring some tricky maths to bear?


Would that solder be lead free?


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## Dave70 (18/11/15)

^^Most of the work I can remember doing on any kind of mechanical services stuff used silver solder with a higher silver content - 5 to 15% silver over the standard 2% stuff. 
If I had to take a stab I'd guess those joints are brazed, not soft soldered. 
However, I like heavy metal in my ears, not my organs and nervous system so I'd be double checking with the manufacturer before running a pale ale through it.


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## takai (19/11/15)

Would be worse than a $30 immersion chiller. Liquid-to-Liquid thermal transfer is much more efficient than Liquid-to-Air, no matter how it works. What you could do is put a trans cooler in an external bath and recirculate through it.. but would still be worse than the $30 immersion chiller.


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## Cervantes (19/11/15)

takai said:


> Would be worse than a $30 immersion chiller. Liquid-to-Liquid thermal transfer is much more efficient than Liquid-to-Air, no matter how it works. What you could do is put a trans cooler in an external bath and recirculate through it.. but would still be worse than the $30 immersion chiller.


Where do you get a $30 immersion chiller?

I made mine and the copper pipe cost more than that.


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## Mattrox (19/11/15)

I think that's the point.


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## takai (20/11/15)

This, with the ubiquitous 10% off voucher for masters: https://www.masters.com.au/product/900008316/hardwicks-copper-pancake-coil-1-2-12-7-x-0-91mm-x-6m

Used to be $33 so $30 with discount, seems to be up to $33 discounted now. Everyone should have hose for water supply, but if not then thats only an extra $5.

An immersion chiller made from that coil will be more effective than a trans cooler.


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## Dave70 (20/11/15)

takai said:


> This, with the ubiquitous 10% off voucher for masters: https://www.masters.com.au/product/900008316/hardwicks-copper-pancake-coil-1-2-12-7-x-0-91mm-x-6m
> 
> Used to be $33 so $30 with discount, seems to be up to $33 discounted now. Everyone should have hose for water supply, but if not then thats only an extra $5.
> 
> An immersion chiller made from that coil will be more effective than a trans cooler.


You should dig up the old thread that dealt with immersion chillers, rate of flow, coil construction, physics ect. There were (no pun intended) some _very_ heated exchanges. Good value.
For me, 12m of tube with a wooden spoon in a cordless drill whirl-polling the wort works a treat. Still playing with the ideal flow rate.


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