# Belgian Pale Ale



## Chris79 (11/10/16)

Hi,
I'm looking to brew in the next month a Belgian Pale Ale. I have put this recipe through Beersmith that I have recently bought. I've had a look at recipes at BYO and Beersmith - and under recipes on AHB too  I've also just bought Gordon Strong's Brewing Better Beer. He has a Belgian Pale Ale recipe with Belgian pale ale malt, Vienna malt, biscuit malt, caramunich, aromatic, and a touch of debittered black malt.

How different, will it be in flavour and colour with using Belgian pilsner over Belgian pale ale? Sounds like vienna malt/munich malt/biscuit/aromatic seem fairly common.

Seems like Saaz, Syrian Goldings, EK Goldings are in keeping with style.

The yeast, I added to the recipe, is not necessarily what I'm going to use. I'm still reasonable happy with rehydrating dry yeast that suits the style. So a few ideas there would be cool.

Cheers
Chris 

View attachment pale ale.pdf


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## RobW (11/10/16)

I believe that the best Belgian pales are simple - 85-90% pils or belgian pale malt and 10-15% Munich/Vienna.
Styrian goldings work well especially late (but with restraint) though you really do need a Belgian yeast to get the proper flavours.
I prefer Wyeast Ardennes started at 20oC and allowed to slowly rise with fermentation over 4-5 days until it reaches 25-26oC


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## Weizguy (11/10/16)

I like Jamil's De Koninck tribute pale ale, with Belgian pils malt and Belgian Caramunich and biscuit.
BYO magazine Jul-Aug 2008.
Kent Goldings for bittering and aroma, and Wyeast PC Belgian Schelde yeast.

Really appealed to my tastebuds.

*Edit: T-58 dry yeast is probably OK, as is S-33 (which I have used for a Belgian Blonde)


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## manticle (11/10/16)

Halve the biscuit and aromatic.

I'd suggest all pils for the base but at least drop either munich or vienna.

Liquid yeasts are the best choice for Belgian - dry is too limited.


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## Danscraftbeer (11/10/16)

M27 is the easy grab dry yeast I'd go for. That's actually the only one I've used and willing to do it again.


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## Chris79 (11/10/16)

Thanks for all the replies, thus far.

@RobW - Cheers. How late for the Syrian Goldings? 30 min. What's distinctive about the Wyeast Ardennes?

@Les - cheers. What do you like about the Wyeast PC Belgian Schelde?

@Manticle - thanks again. What will using vienna or munich malt over the other one bring to the overall flavour? What liquid yeast would you choose? 

@Dan, thanks mate. If I don't go a liquid yeast, which sounds like a real good idea, than that'll be my back.


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## Danscraftbeer (11/10/16)

I only chose Dry yeasts mostly because its more hardy for transport. That makes it more reliable also considering postage now is slower etc or there is something I'm not up with but liquid yeasts haven't done me any favours in my trials. Maybe I've just had bad luck there.
Liquid yeast is more vulnerable to postage and transport variables? I think that's fair to say.


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## manticle (11/10/16)

I'd go vienna or just pils and biscuit/aromatic.

The point with liquid is the range. Any commercial examples you like? Might help influence yeast choice.


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## Weizguy (12/10/16)

Belgian Schelde - it's the flavour profile. soft malt and mild, balanced phenolics, with a tasty blend of esters. I'm drooling now...


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## Chris79 (12/10/16)

cheers Manticle on the grain bill. I haven't yet had a commercial example of a Belgian pale. So, not sure what liquid yeast I'd prefer.

Thanks Les, I'll keep that in mind.


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## Matplat (12/10/16)

The best dry yeast I have used for a belgian was T-58. Turned out a beautiful beer.

I recently used the Mangrove Jacks Belgian Tripel, and it was pretty average.


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## Chris79 (12/10/16)

cool, cheers Matplat


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## shacked (12/10/16)

I've made the brewing classic styles Belgian pale and it was just 340g of caramunich II and 125g of biscuit and then castle pils to get to desired gravity (I think mine was about 1.050). I used styrian goldings at 60 and 0 mins to 27ibu (no chill) and WLP530. 

I've also made a Belgian pale that was mostly Vienna malt, a small amount of pale and 250g of extremely light crystal (10L). I used danstar abbaye dry yeast on that and it was a cracker. Hops were Ella at 60 & 0. 

I'd start with something simple then tinker!! Castle Pilsner is a favorite of mine for Belgians


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## RobW (13/10/16)

Chris79 said:


> Thanks for all the replies, thus far.
> 
> @RobW - Cheers. How late for the Syrian Goldings? 30 min. What's distinctive about the Wyeast Ardennes?


10 - 20 minutes.
I like the phenol profile of Ardennes.
Haven't used Schelde but from Les' description it sounds similiar.

Wyeast says:

One of the great and versatile strains for the production of classic Belgian style ales. This strain produces a beautiful balance of delicate fruit esters and subtle spicy notes, with neither one dominating. 
Unlike many other Belgian style strains, this strain is highly flocculent and results in bright beers.


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## Chris79 (13/10/16)

Those recipes sounds real good Shacked. I will look at keeping the grain bill simple, as a few have suggested. My starting gravity is about 1050 too.

Sounds like the Syrian Goldings will work real well.

The Brew Shop, is my local Sydney choice not too far from me. They stock Castle - so think I'll make the main part of the grain bill up with Castle Pils. I'll need to go with a White Labs option, as that's what they stock. I was looking into WLP500, but will keep in mind WLP530.

Thanks Rob, I'll factor that hop scheduling timing of the Syrian into my recipe.


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## Chris79 (16/10/16)

Ok, here's my revised recipe. I'll look at going the Castle Malting Pils as the base. 

Further thoughts on this? 

View attachment Belgian Pale Ale v2.pdf


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## Danscraftbeer (16/10/16)

Looks good. :chug:


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## Weizguy (16/10/16)

RobW said:


> 10 - 20 minutes.
> I like the phenol profile of Ardennes.
> Haven't used Schelde but from Les' description it sounds similiar.
> 
> ...


Sorry to say that I have a problem with Ardennes, and think that the phenols are too harsh and unbalanced. Just taste an Achouffe beer and a De Koninck to help you chosse between them. You may prefer the flavour of Corsendonk, which is available as Leuven yeast


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## technobabble66 (16/10/16)

Chris79 said:


> Ok, here's my revised recipe. I'll look at going the Castle Malting Pils as the base.
> 
> Further thoughts on this?


Why the 1kg LDME?
I'd just replace it with the Pils malt. More pure flavour in the result. No biggie if unable, but I would if you could.


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## manticle (16/10/16)

Partial mash


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## technobabble66 (16/10/16)

No worries then.
I personally would up the Biscuit a bit (because it's awesome!), but that's probably more for a regular beer.
Given the different "needs"/characteristics of a Belgian, i'd probably end up leaving as is.

As Danscraftbeer, looks good


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## manticle (17/10/16)

I think it looks bang on.


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## RobW (17/10/16)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Sorry to say that I have a problem with Ardennes, and think that the phenols are too harsh and unbalanced. Just taste an Achouffe beer and a De Koninck to help you chosse between them. You may prefer the flavour of Corsendonk, which is available as Leuven yeast


Not a problem, it all comes down to personal preference.
I have used the Leuven a couple of times and found it a bit underwhelming - I prefer a more assertive flavour I guess.


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## Chris79 (17/10/16)

@les where could I buy a single beer of each of those from Dan M? The Little Bottler? If I can get a single beer of those two, I'll buy one!

@techno, like Manticle said I'm doing partials for now. I've got two pots I use. Ones that's really good for 3kg of grain, and another to hold up o 2kg of grain.

I'll just need to choice between wlp500 or wlp530.

Cheers


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## Weizguy (17/10/16)

@Chris79, sorry I could not say. Unlikely at my local Dans, but you should check online. Surely there are some companies who look after these styles.
I have not tasted all of the above beers either. Maybe contact your local Belgian Beer café and find where they source their Belgian pale ales. I remember that Canadian brewer, Unibroue (afaik, no longer imported) made some cracking Belgian ales.

I can recommend a local bloke who imports fresh, cool-transported and stored Belgians, if you want to contact me by pm, once I clear a few messages. You should then contact him and see what he has in the style you seek. I have met the importer and he tastes everything as part of the selection process, and loves Belgians.


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## shacked (17/10/16)

Hey Chris, 

You are in northmead, try these guys in North Strathfield: http://www.platinumliquor.com/ . I've only ever been to the one in bellevue hill but the beer selection was outstanding.

Cheers!


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## Chris79 (17/10/16)

Thanks Dan, techno and Manticle really looking forward to brewing this beer! Especially now with using Beersmith, and getting better at doing my partials!


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## Chris79 (17/10/16)

@les thanks for all that. I have done a brief search, and I saw Dan's M and Beer Cartel online had some in style.

Hey Shacked, I will check them out too. Happy to buy just a few and go from there  cheers


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## manticle (17/10/16)

I know the distributor Les speaks of and the quality of product and service is top notch.


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## Weizguy (18/10/16)

Dive in and brew one, then formulate a new recipe after tasting a few good examples. Good advice for any style. Refine, refine, refine.


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## RobW (18/10/16)

Les the Weizguy said:


> @Chris79, sorry I could not say. Unlikely at my local Dans, but you should check online. Surely there are some companies who look after these styles.
> I have not tasted all of the above beers either. Maybe contact your local Belgian Beer café and find where they source their Belgian pale ales. I remember that Canadian brewer, Unibroue (afaik, no longer imported) made some cracking Belgian ales.
> 
> I can recommend a local bloke who imports fresh, cool-transported and stored Belgians, if you want to contact me by pm, once I clear a few messages. You should then contact him and see what he has in the style you seek. I have met the importer and he tastes everything as part of the selection process, and loves Belgians.


I believe the Unibroue yeast is 3864 Canadian/Belgian

They make some terrific beers, sadly no longer available here.


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## Chris79 (18/10/16)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Dive in and brew one, then formulate a new recipe after tasting a few good examples. Good advice for any style. Refine, refine, refine.


Yes, cheers Les. I will go ahead with my updated recipe. Then, I'll try and get my hands on a few examples, and make some more changes.


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