# Lager recipe without lager yeast



## trustyrusty (4/1/18)

hi what makes a lager a lager without lager yeast. I am drinking Morgans blue mountain lager kit, nice ... but is not using a true lager yeast..I assume the standard yeast which is ale ( I got hold of makers) ... . so what makes it a lager other than yeast... what ingredients are lager associated? Thanks


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## MHB (4/1/18)

Blue Mountains used to come with Morgan's Lager Yeast, it was 497Y Mauri Lager.
A beer made without Lager yeast cant properly be a Lager, at best it may be a lager like pale ale. As for how to brew lager, I'm going to say google exactly that question (I just did) there are lots of answers out there that will save me several hours of typing - so do a bit of reading How to Make Lager, was the first one to come up.
Will say the first thing you need is patience followed by good temperature control...
Mark


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## trustyrusty (4/1/18)

So is a lager yeast then, thanks cheers


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## Garfield (4/1/18)

trustyrusty said:


> So is a lager yeast then, thanks cheers


Without a doubt mate. Only lager yeast makes true lager. Whether a "lager like " ale still suit is totally up to your taste buds


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## Yuz (4/1/18)

Garfield said:


> Without a doubt mate. Only lager yeast makes true lager. Whether a "lager like " ale still suit is totally up to your taste buds


For me, right now with no means of adequate temp control I'm willing to try US-05 for it's "Lager-like cleanliness"... Hope it doesn't end up too citrusy / fruity.


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## TheSumOfAllBeers (4/1/18)

If the end result tastes and drinks like a lager, to an educated palate, then it's a lager. That said, few breweries are making lager without a lager yeast. 

Cold fermented kolsch yeast can get you very close as can low temp us05.

The other key processes are temp control during active fermentation to stop ester production, and the ability to hold very low temps for extended periods to clarify and drop out particles.

As for ingredients, lager / Pilsner malt is not essential, but I think you would struggle to make a great one.


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## MHB (5/1/18)

is


TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> If the end result tastes and drinks like a lager, to an educated palate, then it's a lager. That said, few breweries are making lager without a lager yeast.
> 
> Cold fermented kolsch yeast can get you very close as can low temp us05.
> 
> ...


Actually I disagree with nearly all of this.
_If the end result tastes and drinks like a lager, to an educated palate, then it's a lager. _
That's like saying a petrol engine is the same as a diesel, because they both have pistons going up and down. Its wrong, there are commonalities but its the differences that really matter. Apart from the genetic differences Lagers will ferment much colder, will metabolise more sugars than will Ale and manages Sulphur very differently... I could go on but the point is without lager yeast it is not a Lager!

_That said, few breweries are making lager without a lager yeast._
I suspect the right answer is NO breweries are making lager without a lager yeast.

_Cold fermented kolsch yeast can get you very close as can low temp us05_.
Kölsch is easily recognised by its classic fruity flavour, that comes from the Ale yeast used to brew it. Kölsch actually makes a lot of esters if the ferment temperature isn't very tightly controlled. Personally I'm a lot less impressed with US-05 than are a lot of home brewers, it isn't very attenuateive (finishes sweet) and is a pretty poor flocculator (doesn't drop bright), being more attenuateive and dropping bright are two features you really want in a Lager, cant think of two worse choices than Kölsch and US-05, for a clean low flavour beer.

Agree that temperature control is critical to making Lager successfully. As is the right type of yeast, the right pitch rate...
Lager making is a very technical brewing process, it is truly a child of the industrial revolution.
If you want to make lager that tastes great, have a plan, get the right ingredients, be prepared not to rush or cut corners.

_As for ingredients, lager / Pilsner malt is not essential, but I think you would struggle to make a great one._
The malt choice is far less critical than you might expect, really the only reason to use Pilsner Malt is for low colour. No problem using most any malt in dark lagers like Vienna, or even at the big black end a RIS, most of which are Lagers.
The OP is a kit brewer, so that's all pretty moot anyway.
Mark


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## trustyrusty (5/1/18)

Thanks, FYI from Morgans "This yeast isn't a specific lager yeast".

Which goes back to my original question. So lager generally has certain base malts in recipe, lower temp control and yeast that has drier finish, in terms of kits that is...
Morgans do have a premium lager yeast but is not in the kit.


Btw instructions on say ferment between 22-30 and then in bottles for 5 days at 22-30 and for 10 days at room temp. I am not sure if that is normal for Morgans or this is because it is lager.

I am referring to kit brewing , I am sure all grain brewers and brewers use lager yeast.

I was not asking how to brew a lager, I was interested in how a kit lager can be called a lager when they don't give you a lager yeast. Are there other characteristics that make it a lager other than yeast.. but I think you can't really call it a 'lager' without lager yeast.

Maybe I put this in wrong cat. Admin can move if you want. 

Thanks


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## Yuz (10/1/18)

Well, this is what I'm doing on Friday: Lager Light Malt 1kg & Munich II 1kg >>> partial BIAB with Hallertau MF + a can of Coopers Lager towards the end. US-05 and hope for the best.
Temps are going to be mid-20's as from Friday so should turn out a reasonable brew.
I could, of course, be utterly wrong but, I'm looking forward to this


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## davidc (11/1/18)

You can always use Fermentis W-34/70. It goes in the low 20's.


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## Liam_snorkel (11/1/18)

get an old fridge and temp control unit, then you can brew whatever you like and the yeasties will love you for it.


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## Yuz (11/1/18)

davidc said:


> You can always use Fermentis W-34/70. It goes in the low 20's.


Yeah I would but KK had no stock...


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## davidc (14/1/18)

maybe they would have WLP-830 or Wyeast-2124.


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## Garfield (16/1/18)

davidc said:


> You can always use Fermentis W-34/70. It goes in the low 20's.


I'm trying this yeast out soon for a steam ale my mates have have requested


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## wereprawn (16/1/18)

Your beer may taste ok fermented in the low 20's but it won't taste larger-like. The flavours produced by us-05 or 34/70 are going to stick out like dogs balls at that temp without stronger malt and/or hop flavours to mask them.


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## davidc (28/1/18)

Maybe but ...
http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

I don't have a fermentation fridge yet so it's better than nothing.


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## Yuz (28/1/18)

davidc said:


> Maybe but ...
> http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/
> 
> I don't have a fermentation fridge yet so it's better than nothing.


Same here. The W-34/70 goes ok up to mid-20's, no hints of fruit / off flavours... 
I've also found US-05 produces a very similar "clean" brew.


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## timmi9191 (28/1/18)

Why on earth would you use 34/70 in the mid 20s??

A small investment in temp control will pay big dividends


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## GalBrew (29/1/18)

davidc said:


> Maybe but ...
> http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/
> 
> I don't have a fermentation fridge yet so it's better than nothing.



Please take all Bruslosophy results with the proverbial grain of salt. I suspect you could drop a literal turd into one of their triangle tests and the ‘tasting panel’ still wouldn’t achieve statistical significance.


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