# Where To Buy Stainless Coils



## HKS (11/12/07)

Hey guys, been looking into constructing my own jockey box( that's probably the yank term for it), an esky with 1 or 2 stainless coils for dispensing beer.

I'm not interested in a cold plate. I've been reading up on this and my understanding is that cold plates can't chill the beer enough if the beer is at room temperature. I also want it to be good for continous pour so I'm looking for a 120' stainless coils.

Anyone know where to buy 120' stainless coils in Oz? Pretty much all the setups I have seen have been cold plates.

Thanks.


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## devo (11/12/07)

I saw some for sale at Grain and Grape recently. Dunno how much...give em a call?!


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## HKS (11/12/07)

I had a look at G&G they only have a 50' coil which is not rated for continous pour (by my understanding) if the keg is at room temp.

They only seem to sell jockey boxes with cold plates and they sell an 8"x12" cold plate (also not rated for continous pour) if the keg is room temp.

Thanks for the reply.


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## PJO (11/12/07)

HKS said:


> Anyone know where to buy 120' stainless coils in Oz? Pretty much all the setups I have seen have been cold plates.
> 
> Thanks.



G'day HKS,

I reckon ProChem would be able to supply that sort of thing.

Expect to pay $$$$ 

Cheers,
Petr


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## HKS (11/12/07)

PJO said:


> G'day HKS,
> 
> I reckon ProChem would be able to supply that sort of thing.
> 
> ...



Cheers for that mate. I just checked their website and they only seem to sell 6 metre lengths (19' - 8 2/10") of stainless coil, that I could find. I guess this may need to be custom made which looks like if it was custom made in Oz it would cost big $$$ like you said. I'll shoot them off an email and see if they can supply it with fittings attached.

I am absolutely amazed I can't find 120' stainless coils "easily" in Oz for sale. I'm also amazed everyone seems to sell cold plates instead of coils. I've done quite a few kegs shows in the past in my younger days and every single jockey box we hired was identical. Metal box with cold plate on the bottom. However every keg we got was also cold and straight out of the kegs cellar and most parties started at night (except for the big 18th's/21st where we always started at lunchtime and had polished off a keg before the majority of guests have even arrived. :lol: )

My thinking is I won't always have a cold keg. I live in Oz obviously and it can get bloody hot in summer and the last thing I want is a bunch of angry guests drinking warm beer on a hot day. :angry: It won't always be possible to chill the keg and keep it chilled, especially camping for instance.

My other option is to either run 2 cold plates or 1 cold plate with 2 inlets/2 outlets and loop it to run through it 2x, anyone done this?

Other than that I might need to import one from the US.


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## PJO (11/12/07)

HKS said:


> Cheers for that mate. I just checked their website and they only seem to sell 6 metre lengths (19' - 8 2/10") of stainless coil, that I could find. I guess this may need to be custom made which looks like if it was custom made in Oz it would cost big $$$ like you said. I'll shoot them off an email and see if they can supply it with fittings attached.
> 
> I am absolutely amazed I can't find 120' stainless coils "easily" in Oz for sale.



Just had a good look at the ProChem site myself, looks like the wall thickness of the smallest pipe they sell is quite large (just over 1mm). I reckon you would need a very thin wall thickness to get an effective cooler.

What about trying to source some pipes out of an old temprite and joining them together? You could probably use some John Guest fittings to do the job.

I have a little bit of pipe out of an old temprite and the wall thickness is really quite small (around 0.5mm from memory) 

Cheers
Petr


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## HKS (11/12/07)

PJO said:


> Just had a good look at the ProChem site myself, looks like the wall thickness of the smallest pipe they sell is quite large (just over 1mm). I reckon you would need a very thin wall thickness to get an effective cooler.
> 
> What about trying to source some pipes out of an old temprite and joining them together? You could probably use some John Guest fittings to do the job.
> 
> ...



You sir are a genius. I can't believe I didn't think of that. I just happen to have an old temprite sitting in the shed. I wasn't sure if I could ever be bothered getting a compressor to hook up to it or whether it even works any longer. Its a 3 outlet temprite though I wouldn't think the coils would be very long in a temprite and may not be suitable.

Hmm I'm kinda hesitant to chop it up though. Anyone know generally how long the pipe is in temprites?


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## tangent (11/12/07)

DrGonzo had his "miracle box" happening at the latest SA case swap. I think the kegs were pre-chilled but he just runs ~10m (from memory) of beerline per tap in the esky. Works well and is cheap. Also provides some resistance so you can up the gas pressure a bit.


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## ozpowell (11/12/07)

Not sure if you've seen these ones from Lancer Pacific before.

Lancer (Party Pack towards the bottom of the page)

Can't tell from the pics if they're using coils or plates (or maybe just beerlines buried in ice??). You might want to give them a call - they might sell coils...

Cheers,
Michael.


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## PJO (11/12/07)

HKS said:


> Its a 3 outlet temprite though I wouldn't think the coils would be very long in a temprite and may not be suitable.
> 
> Hmm I'm kinda hesitant to chop it up though. Anyone know generally how long the pipe is in temprites?



You might find that you don't need to chop it up, have a good look how the stainless pipes are held in there. I have only seen one or two temprites, but from memory you should be able to get the stainless pipes out by unhooking them from threaded fittings. Then join them up and whack 'em into your esky.

I couldn't tell you what fittings you will need, someone else will have to help with that one. It might be worth joining them together with cheap PVC pipes and hose barbs for a trial run with water.

Cheers,
PJO


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## HKS (11/12/07)

ozpowell said:


> Not sure if you've seen these ones from Lancer Pacific before.
> 
> Lancer (Party Pack towards the bottom of the page)
> 
> ...



By the looks of it, its using a cold plate because you can't see any coils and it appears the lines are attached at one end. I would say they use cold plates. Thanks anyway mate.



PJO said:


> You might find that you don't need to chop it up, have a good look how the stainless pipes are held in there. I have only seen one or two temprites, but from memory you should be able to get the stainless pipes out by unhooking them from threaded fittings. Then join them up and whack 'em into your esky.
> 
> I couldn't tell you what fittings you will need, someone else will have to help with that one. It might be worth joining them together with cheap PVC pipes and hose barbs for a trial run with water.
> 
> ...




Attached pics is the temprite I have. I can't see how I can get to the pipes to disconnect them without chopping it up. The bottom inlets can be unscrewed, though the top outlets are threaded into the top and look like they need to be removed from inside, except I can't get to them to remove them. Anyone got any idea on how to get the pipes out without chopping it up?


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## ausdb (11/12/07)

HKS said:


> By the looks of it, its using a cold plate because you can't see any coils and it appears the lines are attached at one end. I would say they use cold plates. Thanks anyway mate.
> Attached pics is the temprite I have. I can't see how I can get to the pipes to disconnect them without chopping it up. The bottom inlets can be unscrewed, though the top outlets are threaded into the top and look like they need to be removed from inside, except I can't get to them to remove them. Anyone got any idea on how to get the pipes out without chopping it up?


To get at the pipes in that sort of Temprite you HAVE to destroy it,

What you are looking at is the outer skin of the unit, it has insulation beneath that and then there is then a stainless inner chamber under all the insulation. The product coils go into the interior of the stainless chamber which is then flooded with liquid refrigerant so an angle grinder is the only way in as the stainless chamber is a pressure vessel. I think that many of you are confusing glycol chiller type beer coolers which often do have removable product cooling coils with this unit which is what a Temprite really is, just now everything gets called a "temprite". In the old days this sort of Temprite was all that was available and as most pubs kept their beers in cellars which were not so cold and only sold a few beers they worked very well as the refrigerant in the chamber evaporating directly against the product lines has a very high heat transfer capability. Also the tubes inside these units are flattened slightly to an oval shape, that way they can survive a few beer in the line ice ups if the 750 valve was not set correctly to maintain the refrigerant temp inside the unit.

For the tech heads this is a "Temprite" flooded evaporator instantaneous beverage cooler (try saying that three times when you have a skinful!).


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## grinder (11/12/07)

Check this one out on ebay link


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## MHB (11/12/07)

What ausdb said
I have 4 of the suckers to dismember over the Xmas break (time permitting). The threads in the picture are usually 1/2" BSP, and they are welded or brazed into the pressure container under the insulation.
I am trying to find a "Hole Saw" long enough to slide down over the outside and cut a neat circle around the threaded stub.
Then you have to cut the pressure vessel apart, be careful the outer coil is close to the surface and it's easy to nick it with the grinder (I know because I have made this mistake)

One other point, the plate type chillers are far more effective than coils, thats why they have replaced them in almost all commercial applications, again I have 3 that I hire out, 2 single and a double.

The engineering frat at NcUni hired one a couple of weeks ago - they put 5, 50 L kegs through it in an 8 hour binge.
The plate chiller would be a far better option - other than that they cost more.

MHB


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## ausdb (11/12/07)

MHB said:


> I have 4 of the suckers to dismember over the Xmas break (time permitting). The threads in the picture are usually 1/2" BSP, and they are welded or brazed into the pressure container under the insulation.
> I am trying to find a "Hole Saw" long enough to slide down over the outside and cut a neat circle around the threaded stub.
> Then you have to cut the pressure vessel apart, be careful the outer coil is close to the surface and it's easy to nick it with the grinder (I know because I have made this mistake)


We normally try and cut the seam around the top edge, 
Have fun with trying to do the other trick with a holesaw guiding would be the hardest, as you could cut a holesaw and tack it to a longer tube but trying to keep it concentric and not skipping all over the place would be a nightmare


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## HKS (11/12/07)

MHB said:


> What ausdb said
> I have 4 of the suckers to dismember over the Xmas break (time permitting). The threads in the picture are usually 1/2" BSP, and they are welded or brazed into the pressure container under the insulation.
> I am trying to find a "Hole Saw" long enough to slide down over the outside and cut a neat circle around the threaded stub.
> Then you have to cut the pressure vessel apart, be careful the outer coil is close to the surface and it's easy to nick it with the grinder (I know because I have made this mistake)
> ...



I knew I should have spoken to you 1st Mark. I'm slowly learning though that you should be my 1st port of call.

What I can't understand is why the Yanks recommend the coils over the cold plates, if the cold plates are better? If the beer can't be kept under 55F/12.7C they recommend going with coils especially if its a continous pour situation. Its not just one source either:
http://kegman.net/ss_coils.htm
"When it is impossible to keep the internal pre-cooled product (keg or cask) temperature below 55F. and continuous draw is expected, we recommend using a cold box (cooler) with a 120 feet of stainless steel coil inside that is covered with ice. With the 120 foot col room temperature product can be served continuously at 34F to 42F."

" Cold plates are only recommended when the internal product (keg, cask, bag, or water supply) temperature can be kept below 55F."

http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/j...20-single.shtml
"A stainless coil is far superior for cooling than the "cold plate'' style jockey box."
The quote says it all. I can quote a lot more US sites that sell them but they all say the same thing.

Mark those Uni guys would have had cold kegs? By the sounds of it they got through those 5 kegs pretty quickly so maybe the kegs didn't get above 12.7C? Maybe I should hire one of your boxes and put it to test on a room temperature keg.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/12/07)

Aluminium and copper are FAR more efficient at cooling than stainless, this is why mosts plate chillers for miracle's are ally...you could try a copper chiller...but no doubt someone (especially on here ) well tell you that you will end up dying of some horrible thing from using copper and the post will end up with 90000 entries and start a debate/fight/argument/civil war/hollacoust


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## HKS (11/12/07)

For the same reason that I don't drink beer out of cans is the same reason I don't want any aluminium touching my beers. I realise aluminium/copper is better at heat dissapation, that's why I use them for CPU coolers, but only because beer doesn't touch my cpu cooler. :lol:


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## ausdb (11/12/07)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Aluminium and copper are FAR more efficient at cooling than stainless, this is why mosts plate chillers for miracle's are ally...you could try a copper chiller...but no doubt someone (especially on here ) well tell you that you will end up dying of some horrible thing from using copper and the post will end up with 90000 entries and start a debate/fight/argument/civil war/hollacoust


The cold plates are still stainless they just have a big lump of aluminium cast around them.


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## PJO (12/12/07)

ausdb said:


> I think that many of you are confusing glycol chiller type beer coolers which often do have removable product cooling coils



Thanks for clearing that up, it was this type of unit I was thinking of.


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## Batz (12/12/07)

Where To Buy Stainless Coils

here
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Beer-On-Tap-Coil-St...1QQcmdZViewItem

or here,ready made chiller or HERMS

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Stainless-steel-Bee...1QQcmdZViewItem


Batz


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## HKS (12/12/07)

ausdb said:


> The cold plates are still stainless they just have a big lump of aluminium cast around them.



Ahh cheers for that. I wasn't sure if some of them were fully cast out of aluminium or whether it was an aluminium sandwich encasing stainless.

The way I see it, it comes down to thermal effiency and surface area. We can agree aluminium is better than stainless for dissapating heat. So that's in favour of cold plates. However it also comes down to surface area. I don't think anyone will argue that the surface area in cold plates is a lot smaller than 120' of stainless coil. Also that 120' of stainless coil will hold a greater volume of beer than a cold plate. 

So for continous pour and room temperature kegs, a 120' coil has to be better at chilling the beer than a cold plate.

This is my concern that it won't always be possible to have a cold keg. It won't always be possible to convice thirsty guests that they have to wait 10 minutes between pours for the beer to cool down. Also I don't want to go for a shout pour 4 beers and the rest come out all head.

Am I on track or barking up the wrong tree? 



Batz said:


> Where To Buy Stainless Coils
> 
> here
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Beer-On-Tap-Coil-St...1QQcmdZViewItem
> ...



I've looked at the 1st one and its only 40' long. My understanding is at that length its equivalent to a cold plate.

However the 2nd one looks interesting indeed and as you said could be a dual purpose bit of kit.

Cheers for that.


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## crozdog (12/12/07)

I went through some of your quandry a while back re coil vs plate? I think you need to seriously look at your need/requirement including assessing how realistic your usage scenarios are eg continuous pouring. FWIW, I doubt you'd be doing that when camping - unless there are a lot of you and/or you're bloody thirsty  

One thing to note re coils is that they MUST remain covered with ice/slurry or they loose their effectiveness - a plate on the otherhand is always covered. This is an issue if you want to use it while out camping - especially bush camping where ice isn't readily available <_< It is probably THE reason why I went for a plate.

A few guys on here have made magic/miracle/jockey boxes out of a long coil of regular beer line. That may be a cheaper & easier option if you decide on going the coil route.

Then again, last time I went camping I took the keg fridge cause we had access to power B)


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## HKS (12/12/07)

You are right that continous pour for camping will be highly unlikely, but it will be highly unlikely that I can keep the keg itself cold as well. A party however is a different story. Every keg show I've hosted in the past or been too though has been pretty much continous pour throughout the life of the keg.

Maybe I could do a combination of the 2 and have a cold plate and a bunch of coiled up beer line.

Man that is gold! Taking the fridge camping. When you said fridge, I thought you meant a camping fridge until I expanded the photo and was looking on the ground for the camping fridge when I spotted the full size fridge. :lol: Awesome. I can't believe it survived the journey. You certainly do take everything camping with you, can't spot the kitchen sink though.


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## crozdog (12/12/07)

HKS said:


> :lol: Awesome. I can't believe it survived the journey. You certainly do take everything camping with you, can't spot the kitchen sink though.


yeah we got lots of envious looks pouring fresh lager!! :beer: Don't worry the sink was there too..

 

enough of the hijack.... we now return you to our normal programming


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## Andyd (12/12/07)

FWIW, I've used 40' SS coils to run a party bar and dispense continuously without any dramas (kegs at ambient temperature).

At home I have copper coils submerged in glycol, and that works an absolute treat!

Andy


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