# Robust Porter



## Coodgee (18/2/16)

Thought I would try my hand at a porter. I'm looking to brew a well balanced, smooth porter... a little bit malty sweet but balanced by the roasted flavours. I want it to be best described as smooth. With 20 minutes tinkering I came up with this. I wanted to put 500g of Rye in there but the OG is already at the high end. Considering also adding 100g of cocoa and some vanilla flavouring. Would appreciate any comments: 

```
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4.50 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC)           Grain         1        69.2 %        
1.00 kg               Munich Malt (17.7 EBC)                   Grain         2        15.4 %        
0.50 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         3        7.7 %         
0.35 kg               Carafa II (811.6 EBC)                    Grain         4        5.4 %         
0.05 kg               Biscuit Malt (45.3 EBC)                  Grain         5        0.8 %         
0.05 kg               Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC)               Grain         6        0.8 %         
0.05 kg               Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC)               Grain         7        0.8 %         
50.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.60 %] - Boil Hop           8        22.0 IBUs     
40.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.60 %] - Boil Hop           9        10.7 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49  Yeast         10       -
```


----------



## Liam_snorkel (18/2/16)

I'd consider subbing some of the other roasted malts for a proportion of brown malt* to achieve the same colour. it has a nice smooth toasty character which to me screams porter

*Simpsons - I can't comment on other maltsters but apparently they vary


----------



## Coodgee (18/2/16)

ok, maybe just add 50grams in a more the merrier arrangement? That's what I was aiming for with the contribution of the biscuit malt. Maybe they are fairly similar. 

after a bit of tinkering, I was thinking of trying 150grams of special-B malt. A raisin or plumb flavour sounds nice. getting a bit ridiculous but I think if there is one style that justifies a complex malt bill it's a porter. 

```
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4.50 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC)           Grain         1        67.7 %        
1.00 kg               Munich Malt (17.7 EBC)                   Grain         2        15.0 %        
0.50 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         3        7.5 %         
0.35 kg               Carafa II (811.6 EBC)                    Grain         4        5.3 %         
0.15 kg               Special B Malt (354.6 EBC)               Grain         5        2.3 %         
0.05 kg               Brown Malt (128.1 EBC)                   Grain         6        0.8 %         
0.05 kg               Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC)               Grain         7        0.8 %         
0.05 kg               Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC)               Grain         8        0.8 %         
50.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.60 %] - Boil Hop           9        21.8 IBUs     
40.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.60 %] - Boil Hop           10       10.6 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49  Yeast         11       -
```


----------



## Liam_snorkel (18/2/16)

to be honest I'm not sure how much character you're going to get from 50g (I use between 6-10%), with the carafa (or RB) down at more like 2-3% total. Will wait for others to comment


----------



## TheWiggman (18/2/16)

I'd ditch the Munich and up the brown malt heaps. To the 500g mark. The proportion of other dark malts are probably in the ball park. The carafa II might lend too much to the darkness with that much crystal and brown (500g) so I'd back that off a touch. Looks a touch complex to me but you may have the perfect beer there, who knows.


----------



## Dan Pratt (18/2/16)

Mate I'm about to head out but consider using black patent instead of roast barley. From my research the porter was made famous from the black patent malt which made a porter discernibly different from a stout. Just something to research. Plus I really like the idea of cocoa and vanilla. I've made three porters in the last 8months and it's a style that truly comes to life with those flavours added. Read up about maltose Falcons make a porter, there is a bunch of helpful hints and tips.


----------



## Reman (18/2/16)

This is my porter, with a quite simple but delicious malt bill


----------



## Coodgee (19/2/16)

This is where I am upto based on all your feedback. I know it's a bit ridiculous. Every brewer is entitled to an indulgent malt bill from time to time right? 

```
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------

Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l   

Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 69.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %


Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
4.50 kg               Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC)           Grain         1        70.9 %        
0.75 kg               Brown Malt (128.1 EBC)                   Grain         2        11.8 %        
0.50 kg               Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (78.8 EBC)    Grain         3        7.9 %         
0.35 kg               Carafa II (811.6 EBC)                    Grain         4        5.5 %         
0.15 kg               Special B Malt (354.6 EBC)               Grain         5        2.4 %         
0.05 kg               Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC)          Grain         6        0.8 %         
0.05 kg               Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC)               Grain         7        0.8 %         
50.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.60 %] - Boil Hop           8        22.5 IBUs     
40.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [4.60 %] - Boil Hop           9        13.8 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49  Yeast         10       -
```


----------



## Liam_snorkel (19/2/16)

looks delicious.

here's what I run with minor variations. I added some choc to the most recent one which gave it a coffee-like aroma. often I'll split the base malt 2:1 pale:munich and reduce the crystal slightly.


```
06-2015 porter
Robust Porter

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L):           23.0
Total Grain (kg):         6.150
Total Hops (g):           60.00
Original Gravity (OG):    1.061  (°P): 15.0
Final Gravity (FG):       1.018  (°P): 4.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV):  5.59 %
Colour (SRM):             34.8   (EBC): 68.6
Bitterness (IBU):         31.4   (Tinseth - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes):      70

Grain Bill
----------------
5.000 kg Pale Malt (81.3%)
0.500 kg Gladfields Shepherd Delight (8.13%)
0.500 kg Simpsons Brown Malt (8.13%)
0.150 kg Carafa II malt special (2.44%)

Hop Bill
----------------
30.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L)
30.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale


Recipe Generated with BrewMate
```


----------



## Parks (19/2/16)

Simpson's brown malt is more of a coffee/toffee malt too FYI. It has a very distinguishable flavour.

It in no way resembles the historic porters but does give pretty awesome flavour. It's also a helluva lot darker than 128EBC.

Nothing wrong with roast barley in a robust porter - just a little bit.

20+% between the crystal malts and brown seems high to me. I reckon it would leave too much mouthfeel / malt sweetness.

Having said all that my thoughts are make what you want and adjust next time


----------



## Blind Dog (19/2/16)

After many iterations, some simple, some crazy complex, mine is:

70% MO
12% Brown (Bairds)
8% Munich (Gladfields ro Weyermann)
5% Caramunich
3% Midnight wheat
2% Pale chocolate

I prefer EKG or Challenger as the hops - single 60min addition

Works well as a standard Porter or as a stronger version. I found the more complex gain bills, even if it was just one more grain, started to get muddy and the simpler grain bills lacked something - but were still better than the more complex ones.

I use WLP 007 or WLP 002, both with good results, although I've foufn WLP007 better for the bigger versions as WLP seems to edge them into sweet territory which I don't like


----------



## seamad (19/2/16)

Agree with Parks, Simpsons is @ 500 EBC, Fawcett is @ 130.
I've not used the Simpsons, but the lighter brown malt is very tasty
I don't use any black in porter, just a personal preference
Grist usually :
MO 77%
Brown 10%
Pale Choc 5%
Dark Xtal 5%
Light Xtal 3%

This gives a nice choc/coffee flavour on its own


----------



## RobW (19/2/16)

I usually go with:

MO 70%
Choc 10%
Amber 10%
Brown 5%
Crystal 5%

All English malts and yeast (Whitbread, Thames Valley)
EKG to 30 IBU at 60 min


----------



## Coodgee (19/2/16)

so many options! what a cool style! I'm really looking forward to this. Only problem is I have 100 litres of beer on premises at the moment. Luckily I'm having a party next weekend!


----------



## Coodgee (19/2/16)

Parks said:


> Simpson's brown malt is more of a coffee/toffee malt too FYI. It has a very distinguishable flavour.
> 
> It in no way resembles the historic porters but does give pretty awesome flavour. It's also a helluva lot darker than 128EBC.
> 
> ...





seamad said:


> Agree with Parks, Simpsons is @ 500 EBC, Fawcett is @ 130.
> I've not used the Simpsons, but the lighter brown malt is very tasty


For Brown malt I have either Fawcett or Bairds available to me, the specs are: 

*EBC 100 - 190 *Imparts a dry, biscuit flavour.

This is for both maltsters so not sure if craftbrewer are just being lazy there or if they have the same general specs. Given it specifically lists one of only two qualities as "dry" I didn't think it would add too much sweetness?


----------



## Dan Pratt (19/2/16)

Seen as though we are all throwing recipes in too here is mine....

Judged 1st place at the NSW 2015 state comp last year. Judged by Shawn Shirlock who runs Foghorn Brewery and previously at Murrays, scoring it 83/100

I think it made final table but old Barry was triumphant :beerbang: with his Vienna Lager.

It was my 2nd attempt at the style using the same yeast - Burton Ale 023 "Perfect for porters and stouts"

5.2% ABV
35 IBU

68% Maris Otter
15% Munich
5% Dark Crystal
3% Medium Crystal
6% Chocolate Malt
3% Black Patent

mashed @ 67c then boiled for 60mins

Chinook @ 60mins = 30ibu
Cascade @ 10mins = 5ibu

Fermented with WLP023

Cant wait to throw cocoa nibs and vanilla with the next one :icon_drool2:


----------



## seamad (19/2/16)

Coodgee, The fawcett/bairds brown to me is dry and almost coffee like. Taste is pretty subjective though, so others may think differently.


----------



## indica86 (19/2/16)

Coodgee said:


> Considering also adding 100g of cocoa and some vanilla flavouring.



Don't do it.
You can achieve chocolate flavours without the cocoa. Brew beer first, tinker later.

BTW Marynka hops are great for aniseed.


Simpsons Brown is AMAZING....


----------



## Blind Dog (19/2/16)

Can recommend Bairds. Wouldn't say it was dry and biscuity though more rich coffee with notes of liquorice. Goes well with pale chocolate malt. 



Coodgee said:


> For Brown malt I have either Fawcett or Bairds available to me, the specs are:
> 
> *EBC 100 - 190 *[font=trebuchet ms']Imparts a dry, biscuit flavour.[/font]
> 
> [font=trebuchet ms']This is for both maltsters so not sure if craftbrewer are just being lazy there or if they have the same general specs. Given it specifically lists one of only two qualities as "dry" I didn't think it would add too much sweetness?[/font]


Edit - haven't used Fawcett


----------



## Spookism (22/2/16)

*Amt* *Name* *Type* *#* *%/IBU*
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 76.3 %
0.80 kg Brown Malt (Simpsons) (295.5 EBC) Grain 2 13.6 %
0.30 kg Chocolate Malt (Bairds) (985.0 EBC) Grain 3 5.1 %
0.30 kg Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 4 5.1 %

30.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 5 12.2 IBUs
20.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 6.0 IBUs
20.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 5.4 IBUs 1
5.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 8 0.0 IBUs


That's going to be my crack at a Porter in a week or so.
The overall bitterness is low, but I plan on adding coffee beans to the boil/dry hop for something a bit different.


----------



## Coodgee (22/2/16)

indica86 said:


> Don't do it.
> You can achieve chocolate flavours without the cocoa. Brew beer first, tinker later.
> 
> BTW Marynka hops are great for aniseed.
> ...


can cocoa be added in secondary? does boiling it in wort do anything desirable?


----------



## Dan Pratt (22/2/16)

From what I've read adding about 150g direct to secondary and racking onto that will extract the flavours/aromas. Some use a vodka or bourbon soak method for 48hrs before racking and that does a couple of things, kills any bugs, gets higher extraction. 

Indica86, 

Can you share how you get chocolate without cocao nibs?


----------



## indica86 (23/2/16)

For me this tasted quite chocolatey... witht he Marynka giving aniseed hints.



> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amt Name Type # %/IBU
> 4.50 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EB Grain 1 68.7 %
> ...


----------



## Dan Pratt (23/2/16)

^ hey, I'm unsure what exactly in that recipe gives chocolate flavour/aroma??? Roasted malt maybe a very,very slight hint, but we are talking about adding actual cocao to get actual chocolate into the beer.

What experience did you have with cocao to say don't do it? What went wrong with the beer you tried it with?


----------



## Parks (23/2/16)

The combination of Simpsons brown malt and Roast malt will give chocolate if the IBUs stay restrained.

I'm not certain, but I reckon that last recipe is a little too bitter to be nice and chocolatey. I imagine more toffee and coffee.


----------



## indica86 (23/2/16)

OP brewing his first Porter, I was suggesting to try it without the additives. Always good in my opinion to keep it simple then go from there.
For me that beer tasted chocolatey. I have not brewed with cacao nibs or any such thing.

I brewed it twice with similar IBUs and malt bill and had similar flavours.


----------



## Dan Pratt (23/2/16)

I do agree that for a first porter, get a basic recipe and see how you like the beer before adding other components like cocao and vanilla bean. 

I've added the link for a read:

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/formulating-and-brewing-winning-chocolate-porter


----------



## Coodgee (3/3/16)

4.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 2 72.0 % 
0.50 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (150.0 EBC) Grain 3 8.0 % 
0.50 kg Munich Malt (15.0 EBC) Grain 4 8.0 % 
0.35 kg Carafa II (450.0 EBC) Grain 5 5.6 % 
0.25 kg Brown Malt (128.1 EBC) Grain 6 4.0 % 
0.05 kg Black (Patent) Malt (1300.0 EBC) Grain 7 0.8 % 
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain 8 0.8 % 
0.05 kg Special B Malt (354.6 EBC) Grain 9 0.8 % 
50.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil Hop 10 27.9 IBUs 
20.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil Hop 11 6.8 IBUs 
20.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil Hop 12 0.9 IBUs 
1.0 pkg British Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1335) [124. Yeast 13 - 
This is what I have settled on. There are a few malts there but it's really only base malt, a couple of caramel malts and a few roasted malts. The added complexity comes from the small amount of Special B, the brown malt and the fact that there are 3 roasted malts instead of the usual 1 or 2. I don't think it's too crazy.


----------



## Liam_snorkel (3/3/16)

looks good, thought you would have brewed it by now


----------



## Coodgee (3/3/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> looks good, thought you would have brewed it by now


my fermenting fridge was full of kegs! We had a party on the weekend and I stockpiled 5 kegs. Now I have some room in the fermenting fridge again. So it's about 25 minutes into the mash right now. is there any better smell than mashing in for a dark beer? mmmmmm


----------



## Zorco (3/3/16)

Such a build up....What a top thread. Post up a pic of brewday Coodgee. :beerbang:


----------



## Coodgee (4/3/16)

No pics sorry but brew day went well. 21L at 1064. It's the biggest beer I've brewed in some time. Pitched 1.5l of starter into 22 degree wort. It's got a thick krausen this morning and sitting at 19 degrees. Should be a gooden.


----------



## Coodgee (7/5/16)

So this beer turned out pretty nice. A very big beer in terms of flavour. a bit of alcohol warmth to it. I'm brewing another porter today which is much more in the session beer end of the porter spectrum: 

```
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 43.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.50 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1.11 tsp              Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins)             Water Agent   1        -             
3.75 kg               Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett)  Grain         2        77.3 %        
0.42 kg               Brown Malt (128.1 EBC)                   Grain         3        8.7 %         
0.42 kg               Caramalt (Thomas Fawcett) (80.0 EBC)     Grain         4        8.7 %         
0.26 kg               Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (650.0 E Grain         5        5.4 %         
28.00 g               Fuggles [4.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           6        13.4 IBUs     
12.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil Hop           7        7.8 IBUs      
20.00 g               East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.70 %] - Boil Hop           8        4.7 IBUs      
1.0 pkg               Thames Valley Ale II (Wyeast #1882PC)    Yeast         9        -
```


----------

