# hop fruit salad - recipe critique



## fletcher (6/6/13)

has anyone had good experience mixing a lot of fruity hops in a pale ale or IPA? i haven't gone through the recipeDB because i don't think i can search in the way i want.

i'm after a recipe that considers 3 or 4 hops, to really provide many unique fruity characters. the ones i have that i'd like to use are: citra, galaxy, cascade, nelson sauvin. i'd be happy to throw them all in to be honest but does doing this tend to cancel specific hop flavours out? is 3 or 4 too many or are there ways of making it balance?


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## Lecterfan (6/6/13)

You'll get lots of good, seasoned (experienced?) replies to this I'm sure.

My 2c is this (and you will get people with direct contrary opinions, because palates are different):

*I'd stick to three of those four personally

*Bitter with Nelson Sav and/or cascade.

*Cascade for main flavour hop

*A small amount of Nelson for flavour/aroma (<10 min additions) goes a long way

*Citra plays well with other hops but doesn't like to be too heavy (for my tastes, same with galaxy - although 12 months ago I was going heavy on galaxy), I love it for aroma.


But this is for my palate after lots of stuffing around.

No reason you can't throw the lot in at 10 minutes and see what you reckon. Over time and various brews you might/should/can/could learn the different aspects of each hop and what you (dis)like about each. :icon_cheers:


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## fletcher (6/6/13)

thanks mate. of course, i know it's very much a palate/subjective thing with what and when to add it, but i wanted to see what people had used or considered or experienced themselves, to kind of act as a basis. i do like what you're saying about bittering with nelson. if i'm not mistaken, fat yak is cascade and nelson right? (i love a fat yak) so starting on that basis might work. thanks


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## Yob (6/6/13)

Personally, I'd probably not go nelson and galaxy together, to me they are both a highlight hop and poles apart.

I regularly use 4 hop combos and love the complexities it brings, Magnum/centennial/citra/mosaic for example is rapidly becoming a firm favorite.. Absolutely not suggesting dont do it, just caution may be a wise move, that way if you find it needs a little extra aroma one way lecture other you can always top up in the keg..

Cheers


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## manticle (6/6/13)

I often use three. I'll use one in bittering stages and it will be one with piney/resinous characteristics to help cut through the fruitiness a tad. My preferred for this is chinook but there are others.

I will then rely on one or two fruity hops that play well together (cascade or centennial and amarillo or simcoe and citra if I'm mixing) to add flavour and aroma in small, frequent bursts after 25 mins (~5 g of each every 5 mins in a single batch).

At 0 mins I'll add both a hint of the bittering plus the flavour hops and do similarly on dry hop.

If you choose your hops right, they will work well and a hint of calcium sulphate, depending on our calcium and sulphate levels otherwise will help brighten the hop profile and prevent it becoming muddy.

You'll need to work out your own combos - personally i'm not a fan of nelson or galaxy flavours in beer so I won't offer advice on how to use them.


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## fletcher (6/6/13)

thanks guys. i might try a cascade bittering, with some citra and galaxy flavour and aroma combo; and have a play around with their timings. cheers


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (6/6/13)

DAS for "Lord Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale" - I think that covers your hop varieties.

Got into using Mosaic, which is an excellent hop. Plays well with Citra - Mosaic gives the mellow melony, pineappley type flavour to complement the passionfruit, citrus punchy sharpness of Citra.

I'll have to slightly disagree with Yob (that's rare) - Nelson and Galaxy can play together, but you've got to be 'less is more' with Nelson for it to work. I just happened to stumble across this little fact.

What I did with the post-Nelson beers was used Chinook as the bitterer and a little late in the kettle. I find that the piney-resinous character adds excellent depth to the beer and stops it getting too passiona/fruit punch. Basically what mants said viz chinook and a couple of fruity hops late.

I know mants does the 'every 5 minutes' thing and I've never done it, but he swears by it and that's enough for me. My method for a fruity APA, is 15IBU at 30 minutes - usually Chinook and a shade of Nelson, and then the extra 20IBU (or more - lupulin threshold shift and all that) from 10 minute additions. I'm not a massive dry hopper, though I did a version of Lord Nelson with about 30g cascade in the keg in a tea bag and that was really really good.

Anywho, have a look at the recipe and the feedback. It'll give you ideas at least.


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## stakka82 (6/6/13)

Yob said:


> Personally, I'd probably not go nelson and galaxy together, to me they are both a highlight hop and poles apart.


That's the way I think of them too, they both add a 'brightness' to hop profiles, especially galaxy.


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## fletcher (6/6/13)

thanks mate. when i get home this arvo i might post a recipe up and see how it looks. cheers for that, i'll check out the recipeDB.

i like the _idea_ of galaxy and nelson but don't want to go way overboard.


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## Three Sheets (14/7/13)

If I could just tack onto this thread with a question. I'm about to put down an Amarillo Pale ale FWK to make 23 litres. I have Chinook, Citra, Cascade, Centennial and Simcoe.

My first go at hopping properly, and whilst I like hops, I dont want to make a fruit salad train smash. 


Open to suggestions and tips.


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## Yob (14/7/13)

For a first go at hopping, go easy, 0.5g/l centennial + 0.5g/l Citra (dry hop day 4-5)

Serious drool factor, both play well with Amarillo


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## punkin (15/7/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> DAS for "Lord Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale" - I think that covers your hop varieties.
> 
> Got into using Mosaic, which is an excellent hop. Plays well with Citra - Mosaic gives the mellow melony, pineappley type flavour to complement the passionfruit, citrus punchy sharpness of Citra.
> 
> ...



Could you please post up the recipe here?

The dtabase recipe has lost your notes on the hops substitutions and i am interested in the current version as well as if you have a no chill version. All strong favourite hops of mine (citra not as much) and i love a rye addition in my beers.


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## Three Sheets (15/7/13)

Yob said:


> For a first go at hopping, go easy, 0.5g/l centennial + 0.5g/l Citra (dry hop day 4-5)
> 
> Serious drool factor, both play well with Amarillo


Thanks I will run with that. Now I was also thinking of adding chinook or Simcoe in boil to put in some of that resin pine flavour/aroma. (The Amarillo PA could also tolerate a little more bitterness) I was thinking 10 grams 20 mins 15grams 10 minutes??. Suggestions, thoughts, warnings etc welcome.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/7/13)

punkin said:


> Could you please post up the recipe here?
> 
> The dtabase recipe has lost your notes on the hops substitutions and i am interested in the current version as well as if you have a no chill version. All strong favourite hops of mine (citra not as much) and i love a rye addition in my beers.


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1434-lord-nelson-citra-cascading-out-of-this-galaxy-pale-ale/

Here it is bud.

In the actual thread are a number of variation recipes & decent dialogue as well.

I'm seeing it on a tablet.

No chill would be early additions at 10 and 10 minutes at flameout with a little dry hop after primary to adjust.

Basic formula (chilled) is 25L, 5kg of base, 500g of spec (but no more than 300g of rye included in that).

15IBU @30m, 20-25IBU @ 10m.

US05

It works with most American style hops, it is just a matter of settling on a combo.

When/if I get asked for a recipe on the Tas swap thread, I'll put a new one in there, which is 'what I could get hold of' recipe that still was alright.


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## Nodrog (15/7/13)

Got the ahb sign off on a columbus centennial cascade citra combo a few weeks ago, had a sneaky test of the first bottle at it he weekend, had only been carbing 4 days, but is tasting and smelling to be everything I'd hoped for.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/73109-centennial-and-citra-in-combination/


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## punkin (17/7/13)

Thanks LRG, i've read that, but didn't spot the notes at the top (they used to be at the bottom). I'll have a go at it in the next couple of weeks.


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## GrumpyPaul (17/7/13)

Yob said:


> Serious drool factor, both play well with Amarillo


Both play well with Rexona.....lol


(just thought I'd throw in an old NickJD reference for those that are still pining for him)


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## angus_grant (17/7/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1434-lord-nelson-citra-cascading-out-of-this-galaxy-pale-ale/
> 
> Here it is bud.
> 
> ...


I'm cold conditioning my 3rd batch of Lord Nelson Cascading and it is a really nice beer. I think my 4th batch I will use the grains LRG mentions in the recipe (I used BB Ale) and see what the difference is. Problem is that it never sticks around long enough to get a good appreciation. It is now known as the passionfruit beer and gets smashed when people know it is back on tap. One keg went in 4 hours at my little boys 1st birthday.

This time I am going for 20g Citra and 10g Cascade dry hop in the keg for 4 or 5 days. A little bit less of the Cascade as I have seen reference to grass clippings if over-hopped. Still haven't quite settled on a dry-hop combo. The Citra is all passionfruit and I think I'd like something a little less one-dimensional. A very nice beer none the less. :icon_drool2:

I've also just brewed DSGA and am interested to see how it turns out. Amarillo is such a rare and expensive little beasty it would be hard to keep as a house brew. That's there the Lord Nelson may win out as my house beer.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/7/13)

Mosaic is a great fruit hop that adds a different dimension to the passion fruit of Citra.

DKS did a Chinooking version in place of Cascade and rates it. I reckon the best version is with Chinook as the 30 min addition. 

Mosaic is melon like softness, not tropical tartness.


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## Three Sheets (23/7/13)

Three Sheets said:


> Thanks I will run with that. Now I was also thinking of adding chinook or Simcoe in boil to put in some of that resin pine flavour/aroma. (The Amarillo PA could also tolerate a little more bitterness) I was thinking 10 grams 20 mins 15grams 10 minutes??. Suggestions, thoughts, warnings etc welcome.


No thoughts or comments on the boil? I hope to drop this into a FWK Amarillo or Galaxy pale ale tomorrow evening. I just don't want to stuff up an already good drop. Will this boil provide a back drop to the main Amarillo flavour ? Too weak too strong? ( I will be dry hopping as per YOBS suggestion) ..


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## Three Sheets (24/7/13)

Ok. Job done. Went with an 17 litre Galaxy Pale Ale Fresh Wort Kit and boiled 250 grams of light DME, 3litres of water , with 5g @ 20m 5g @ 15m 10g @ 10m and 5g @ 5 mins, all Chinook. to 23 litres . I'll be dry hopping as per YOBS suggestion of , 0.5g/l centennial + 0.5g/l Citra (dry hop day 4-5).

Hop I haven't destroyed what's already an excellent drop.

Will report findings accordingly if anyone is interested.

Cheers


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## Yob (24/7/13)

It's gunna be a fine drop mate, the only problem you will face is keeping it long enough to mature properly..


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## Three Sheets (28/7/13)

Just dry hopped with 15g each of centennial and citra. Looking forward to this one.

Four hop combo GCCC.

Tasting in two weeks.


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## Three Sheets (1/8/13)

A quick deviation on the topic. I'm caught short and wont get supplies in time for next batch. So here's the plan form what's laying around. 1 can homebrand draught beer, one kg Coopers brew booster. Add 200 grams of DLME boil my 15/15 Centennial/Citra dry hop from current brew. and add 10 grams fresh centennial hop pellets. 

Question: boil times for the hops?

Will this work?


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## angus_grant (1/8/13)

I made 2 batches of Lord Nelson Cascading out of this Galaxy: one normal ABV and one light ABV (by mistake: mash temp was listed incorrectly). I dry-hopped with 20gs of Citra in the normal ABV version for 5 days. This was drunk at the party I took it to, so I took the tea-ball out and put it into the low ABV version. This was dry-hopped until I finished the keg which was about 2 weeks. Had enough oomph to dry-hop 2 kegs.

I can't say whether you would be able to dry-hop a keg and then use same hops for boil. It worked dry-hopping 2 kegs in my case.


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## Yob (2/8/13)

Historically this method has been used, not tried it myself, I'd go for a 20 min flavour boil and a fresh dry hop at half ferment... Hell, with the can you are using it can't hurt and will be a good experiment


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## Three Sheets (2/8/13)

Well its in. 20 min boil of the previously mentioned dry hopped fresh hops for 5 mins. Steeped for another 5mins. Wort smells excellent. Yeast was safele 04 btw.


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## jaypes (2/8/13)

Damn i'm salivating just reading this thread


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## Yob (2/8/13)

04? Damn... Good luck


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## jaypes (2/8/13)

Yeah i read that as well, i have used it once and once only


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## Byran (2/8/13)

I just made a 23l batch of fruity pale ale with Simcoe as the main bitterer, 20g cascade and 10g nelson at 15 mins. I havent dry hopped as yet but the primary is all but finished and the aroma is quite unbelievable. Im very surprised it hasnt died off at all. I prob wont dry hop the nelson seems to be coming through quite well with the cascade.


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## Three Sheets (3/8/13)

Yob said:


> 04? Damn... Good luck


Its the first time I have used it too. Whats the issue with it? ( I bought it by mistake).

As an aside, is hops addictive? I just want bigger and bigger hits!

My next batch will go up a notch.


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## RelaxedBrewer (3/8/13)

best advice I can give you with s04 is pitch at a low temp and slowly raise it throughout the fermentation.


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## Three Sheets (3/8/13)

RelaxedBrewer said:


> best advice I can give you with s04 is pitch at a low temp and slowly raise it throughout the fermentation.


Thanks, but its too late. Pitched at around 24c and now bubbling away at around 16c.

A train smash brew, so lets see how it turns out.


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## carniebrew (3/8/13)

Three Sheets said:


> ...
> As an aside, is hops addictive? I just want bigger and bigger hits!
> 
> My next batch will go up a notch.


Yep, google "Lupulin Threshold Shift"


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## lukiferj (3/8/13)

Slippery slope now my friend. Rarely brew anything under 50 IBU these days. Darker beers aside, I like em hoppy and bitter.


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## angus_grant (3/8/13)

I rarely poo anything under 50 ibu's these days. He he!!!!!


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## Three Sheets (30/8/13)

Three Sheets said:


> Just dry hopped with 15g each of centennial and citra. Looking forward to this one.
> 
> Four hop combo GCCC.
> 
> Tasting in two weeks.


Ok this turned out very tasty and topped the hop scale for me, too hoppy for the mrs. Although it did mellow towared the end of the kegs. Its not much help to you guys unless youe using an ESB 17 litre FWK as a base,


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