# Husky's Biab Brew Rig



## husky (8/11/10)

I have posted these pics in another thread however I thought I would start a new thread now the system has had its maiden run. I would also like to get comments from people on improvments that can be made etc.
I realise BIAB is supposed to be simple however I like to tinker with things because thats what I enjoy doing. My aim was not to squeeze any more efficiency out of the process but simply make brew day a bit neater. The fact that I like shiny stainless also has alot to do with it.

I have the height of my basket set so I can run a double batch and have the grain just above water level, this means the wort will have a little further to drop when running a single batch(99.9% of the time). If this turns out to be an issue I can add additional tubes to the basket to sit it further in the pot. Theres plenty of clearance around the basket to observe the wort height.

My initial design had a basket made from the same mesh used on all the commercially available false bottoms (2.06mm from memory). However at $1200 a sheet or something rediculous like that I opted for a sheet I had already with 3mm holes. This will get me up and running using the voile bag inside. Down the track I plan to experiment with a solid side basket and a false bottom just to see of it works. 
More likly than not I will try it in my current basket with no bag and just see if much grain gets through.

Anyway, heres some pics of my setup.








































On the weekend I crushed 5kg of grain for a 20L batch(23L kettle 20L into fermenter)
I used 24L of water initially in the pot to allow plenty for a sparge. Tyrns out the mash was very thick so I upped it to 28L and mashed away. Missed mash temp by a few degrees so I added some boiling water to adjust. Had a temp probe in the middle of the grain and there was no temp drop over the first half hour then a 0.6 degree drop over the second half hour.

The stove with all four burners going was only just enough to get a boil going. Not as vigorous as I would have liked(4L per hour lost). 
Will be installing two 2200W elements shortly.

All done and I got 19L of 1.050 wort into the fermenter. I left 4.5 or so litres behind in the kettle of what I assume was all break and hops.

I dont have a chiller as yet so I no chilled in the pot for 12 hours till the temp dropped to 36 degrees then into fermenter.
One thing I did notice was alot of bitterness. Did not adjust recipe for no chill. the brew day was more about using the new rig than the final product anyways.
Herwes some pics of the brew day.


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## husky (8/11/10)




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## Bribie G (8/11/10)

Wow, ve have der Braumeister shaping up here :icon_cheers: 

How do you maintain a regular mash temp? do you just heat and stir and keep monitoring it? I'd be inclinded to lid it and lag it. 
What is the batch size? Hard to tell but it looks a good sized pot. With solid sides and a false bottom you could try recirculating through a grain bed and heating RIMS style (maybe with a march pump attached to the tap). I get the feeling that with the perforated sides, wort would take the path of least resistance and you wouldn't get a real grain bed happening, could be wrong. 

However the current system looks awesome. I take it the stove is up to the job.


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## Crusty (8/11/10)

Husky,

I have no advice or anything to offer but reckon your setup looks sweet mate.

:icon_drunk: Crusty


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## Charst (8/11/10)

Where did you get a hold of the mesh basket or did you build it yourself? 
Have yo tried it without the bag? looks fantastic!


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## RdeVjun (8/11/10)

:icon_chickcheers: Looks impressive! Garage Braumeister perhaps?! Australians are an ingenious mob! 

One thought I have had is that the rods used to hold the basket appear to be a fairly tight fit, if you're lifting the basket up you may struggle to lift and secure with the rod with any ease, perhaps something with more margin for error in placement might be helpful. I can visualise holding the basket up with one hand while fiddling around with the other trying to line just one rod up with its tube and swearing plenty. I know it isn't that easy holding a bag of grain up while farting around with the cord, this basket will be heavier and alignment is probably less forgiving. Hmmm, unless you can rest the tube on the rim of the pot while fitting the rod I guess?

Hmm, your stove might be pretty piss poor as far as heat output, I realise that's a big, thicker- walled stockpot with much more mass, but even a $15 camping stove can boil a 19L stockpot. Only just I admit, but it does boil.


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## husky (8/11/10)

BribieG said:


> Wow, ve have der Braumeister shaping up here :icon_cheers:
> 
> How do you maintain a regular mash temp? do you just heat and stir and keep monitoring it? I'd be inclinded to lid it and lag it.
> What is the batch size? Hard to tell but it looks a good sized pot. With solid sides and a false bottom you could try recirculating through a grain bed and heating RIMS style (maybe with a march pump attached to the tap). I get the feeling that with the perforated sides, wort would take the path of least resistance and you wouldn't get a real grain bed happening, could be wrong.
> ...



On this occasion I placed foil on the grain bed and over the top of the pot then wrapped in a sleeping bag(seen in one of the pics). Held the temperature better than I expected as theres a fairly large volume of water(thermal mass) there and it held up well. 
Waiting to have a lid made and lagging is on the cards, just some clark rubber stuff with velcro straps hopefully.
Its a 75L pot so could potentially do a double one day however this batch and 99% of all batches will be around the 20L mark.
With the AU$ I was hoping to order a march pump for a future recirculation project. Definatly think it could be done but as you say with a rolled cylinder inserted into the basket to give solid sides and a false bottom if the perforations are too large. 
Stove was barely up to the task, stainless being a relativly poor conductor tended to heat locally above the burners only. Going electric shortly although craftbrewer keep selling out of elements!


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## husky (8/11/10)

Charst said:


> Where did you get a hold of the mesh basket or did you build it yourself?
> Have yo tried it without the bag? looks fantastic!




Had the basket fabricated as a special at the same time as the pot. Pot is 2mm wall bottom and sides. Basket is 3mm perforations which I feel will be slightly too big to ditch the bag alltogether. A beerbelly false bottom is around 2.06mm from memory.
Inevidably however, I will at some stage try it without the bag. I imagine some flour to get through which can be legt behind in the whirlpol and then a regular grain bed may form, who knows.


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## husky (8/11/10)

RdeVjun said:


> :icon_chickcheers: Looks impressive! Garage Braumeister perhaps?! Australians are an ingenious mob!
> 
> One thought I have had is that the rods used to hold the basket appear to be a fairly tight fit, if you're lifting the basket up you may struggle to lift and secure with the rod with any ease, perhaps something with more margin for error in placement might be helpful. I can visualise holding the basket up with one hand while fiddling around with the other trying to line just one rod up with its tube and swearing plenty. I know it isn't that easy holding a bag of grain up while farting around with the cord, this basket will be heavier and alignment is probably less forgiving. *Hmmm, unless you can rest the tube on the rim of the pot while fitting the rod I guess?
> 
> *Hmm, your stove might be pretty piss poor as far as heat output, I realise that's a big, thicker- walled stockpot with much more mass, but even a $15 camping stove can boil a 19L stockpot. Only just I admit, but it does boil.




Exactly, lift basket with two hands, rest one side tube on rim of pot, insert both rods. It was dead easy(see third pic down in first post). I was going to sand the rods to a point if it was difficult but there is no need. They are a tight fit but it works a treat.

This same stove will easily boil a 19L bigW pot, but this has alot more surface area to bleed heat from. It did it but not sure I will do it again. Hoping to source a couple of 2200W stainless steel elements to do the heating.


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## Silo Ted (8/11/10)

Not sure about the referemces to the Braumeister, which if I understand correctly is quite a different system involving recirculation and monitired heat application. 

Regardless, it looks very pretty. Not really sure why you need a bag and a basket ? Will be looking forward to reading about your experiences without the bag. I suspect a lot of shits going to slip through.


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## yardy (8/11/10)

I don't get the Braumeister thing either, it does look like it will evolve into a good system though, personally, i would've fabbed the basket with a single handle.


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## Thirsty Boy (8/11/10)

Well, it looks a lot like the braumeister.

As far as your piss poor boil goes... Too much surface area means your burners will struggle to keep a boil going, even though they might not have trouble with the actual "volume" of liquid if it were in a smaller diameter pot.

Float something on the surface of the wort, this will cut down the effective surface area and increase teh vigor of your boil. Your boil off rate won't change a he'll of a lot.. But you _will_ get more velocity in the liquid movement and more bubble formation - which is what you want in a wort boil.

I'd aim for floating something food grade on the surface of the pot, that would cut down the exposed surface area to say 50 or 60 percent of what it normally is, then tweak up or down from there. I use a lid from a 20L white food grade bucket and it does the job nicely in my 60L kettle.

TB


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## dcx3 (8/11/10)

Nice work Husky, looks alot like a crab cooker


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## goomboogo (8/11/10)

Correct me if I've misread but you're starting the boil with 23-24 litres and boiled off 4 litres per hour. That seems quite good.


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## ledgenko (8/11/10)

Husky ..... that is one of the sexiest pieces of brew porn I have seen in ages !!! love it !! 


MMMMMMMMMM ..... s/s !!!!!


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## husky (9/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> Not sure about the referemces to the Braumeister, which if I understand correctly is quite a different system involving recirculation and monitired heat application.
> 
> Regardless, it looks very pretty. *Not really sure why you need a bag and a basket* ? Will be looking forward to reading about your experiences without the bag. I suspect a lot of shits going to slip through.




If I could have made the basket from the 2mm perforated sheet then I dont think I would need the bag. As it stands, the basket is there purely to make handling of the voile bag easier and to keep the bag off the sides of the kettle and off the bottom where there will soon be some electric elements.


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## Silo Ted (9/11/10)

Hi Husky, was searching for a thread where Thirstyboy made some relevant comments to some queries of mine, and actually it was in an older thread of yours. Some food for thought regarding the usage of a SS basket, see post #14 http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...187&hl=mesh


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## Silo Ted (9/11/10)

also, I was briefly chatting via PM with user matr who also has some plans in the pipeline. He believes that the specs on voile are 210 micron apeture and a 120 micron thread. Something to keep in mind when designing a fabric-free BIAB vessel. I say its still worth giving yours a go, at worst its going to be a failure that only costs time and about $10 of grain. Please keep us posted.


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## MarkBastard (9/11/10)

husky said:


> If I could have made the basket from the 2mm perforated sheet then I dont think I would need the bag. As it stands, the basket is there purely to make handling of the voile bag easier and to keep the bag off the sides of the kettle and off the bottom where there will soon be some electric elements.



You could still line the basket with a fine metal mesh. The basket then becomes structural and the mesh does the straining. I suppose there's nothing wrong with voile either way though.


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## Silo Ted (9/11/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> You could still line the basket with a fine metal mesh. The basket then becomes structural and the mesh does the straining. I suppose there's nothing wrong with voile either way though.



One of these days Im going to make an automatic agitator/stirrer, so the voile would get caught up in the rudders. An easy fix with a set up like Husky's though would be to have the voile on the outside of the basket, and a cake rack over the element so the fabric doesnt melt. A single basket would be great though, its just finding a fine enough mesh for the job.


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## husky (9/11/10)

I have taken on board TB's comments in the other thread but for the sake of a few kg of grain I still think I will give it a go. In the long term I aim to roll a cylinder to place inside the basket(removable) to create solid walls of the basket and a regular false bottom in the base of the basket. Then using a march pump to take wort from beneath the basket and return it to the top. This should ultimately work the same as 3V. Then maybe add some sort of temp control to maintain/ramp temp as the wort circulates using the electric elements beneath the basket to add the heat required.
These are all purely concepts in my head at the minute but the idea of the thread is to get peoples opinions and ideas so that when I get to the next stage of modifications I will have a good idea of what will and will not work.

As it stands currently my future plans are basically as outlined above, solid wall insert that is removable, standard false bottom possibly a custom as it needs to be 400mm diameter, march pump to pick up wort from the centre of the pot beneath the basket and return it to the top of the grain bed. Possibly without the voile bag at all by this stage.
I would possibly manually add heat in short bursts if the temp of the grain started to drop.
I would really like to automate the recirc HERMS style but that is a long way down the track. Lots more research to be done on the electronics side.


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## yardy (9/11/10)

husky said:


> *As it stands currently my future plans are basically as outlined above, solid wall insert that is removable, standard false bottom possibly a custom as it needs to be 400mm diameter, march pump to pick up wort from the centre of the pot beneath the basket and return it to the top of the grain bed. Possibly without the voile bag at all by this stage.
> I would possibly manually add heat in short bursts if the temp of the grain started to drop.
> I would really like to automate the recirc HERMS style but that is a long way down the track. Lots more research to be done on the electronics side.
> *



basically a home made braumeister then ?

http://www.braumeister.com.au/Model20.asp

when you ditch the voile bag if you don't get another basket fabbed up with the perf the size that you neeed to go with, get some Invisi-Gard T316 mesh in SS finish before it's powder coated and wrap your basket in that.

any ideas on what size element(s) you plan on fitting ?

Dave


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## beerbrewer76543 (9/11/10)

You could check out my build along similar Braumeister lines

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry701707

Cheers


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## OLDS2006 (9/11/10)

cheap 2mm SS peforated sheet


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## husky (9/11/10)

yardy said:


> basically a home made braumeister then ?
> 
> http://www.braumeister.com.au/Model20.asp
> 
> ...




I guess it will be very similar. 
I have just ordered three of the 2200W 304 stainless elements. Same as craftbrewer have on their website. 
I plan to run two of these in parallel to heat the water(4400W) and then the two in series for the boil to get the heat density down(2200W). That is assuming that 2200W is ample to maintain the boil for a standard batch size. 
My calcs give a boil heat density of around 50kw/sqm which is close to the lowest heat density elements I could find on the market(around 32kW/sqm).
I have the third one just in case I can squeeze three in there but two will be a push as I will have to flaten the sides locally to fit the elements side by side as these are a non weld in type.


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## husky (10/11/10)

OLDS2006 said:


> cheap 2mm SS peforated sheet




Bugger, if only I had seen this before the basket was fabricated! I sent an email asking for an offcut just for the base. With this finer mesh sitting in the base of the current basket I fear the open area will be massively reduced as the holes overlap.
Thanks for the link!


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## husky (10/11/10)

Elements arrived today. They are the same as these

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853

Im hoping to have two of them mounted this week ready for a trial boil this weekend. Very easy to install for those without welding capability.


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## yardy (10/11/10)

horizontally as in the braumeister ?

cheers

Dave


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## Silo Ted (10/11/10)

yardy said:


> horizontally as in the braumeister ?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Dave



No mate, the Brau is a circular ring (not to be confused with a ring of some other shape) element. Granted, it is horizontal.  

Husky, how do you propose to run multiple elements (to 4400), are you running them off different circuits, or do you put some heavy duty fuses into your box ? My annoying urn seems to have issues with maintaining a boil, and Im thinking of buying another element to get some reliable boil action going.


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## yardy (11/11/10)

Silo Ted said:


> *No mate, the Brau is a circular ring (not to be confused with a ring of some other shape) element. Granted, it is horizontal.*



well, yeah.. 

I had a thought that they could've gone vertically in between the wall of the boiler and the basket but i was thinking out loud..

cheers


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## husky (11/11/10)

The pot is 450mm diameter and the basket 400mm so theres only 25mm of space between the two and the elements are 25mm diameter. I left a 70mm false bottob beneath the basket to accomodate the elements.
Its an idea that never crossed my mind yardy. After having a good read on the Brau last night it may have been possible to have an element mounted vertically in the centre and an inner tube to the basket. This inner tube could then have been setup as the flow path for the wort which I believe would suit the future automation process better as the heat energy enters the liguid that is flowing. Where as what I was thinking with the elements under the basket, some heat will go into the circulating wort and some will remain to directly heat the underside of the basket. 
So in short, they will he horizontal under the basket.

I have a few different circuits I can draw from however I may run a second 15A circuit to the kitchen in the near future. I may just run an extension lead for now from the shed which has its own 15A circuit. It would only be a short lead so shouldn't be a problem.


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## husky (11/11/10)

a couple of concept pics:


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## husky (13/11/10)

OLDS2006 said:


> cheap 2mm SS peforated sheet



Picked up a 1m x 0.5m strip for next to nothing! Hoping to make a 450mm domes false bottom for the main pot if it ever becomes a conventional mash tun one day and also a 400mm false bottom for the mesh basket. Then to get a cylinder rolled for the inner of the basket.

Could not install the elements the way I had planned to having a small section of the pot cut out next week and a piece of flat welded in so the elements can sit side by side and to touch each other.


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## husky (13/12/10)

Finally progress. Pot modified and elements installed.
Cut the false bottom for the inner basket and also rolled a cylinder to sit inside the basket(not shown as theyre still being cleaned up). This will allow me for now anyway to circulate wort through the grainbed to increase clarity. This will be a manual process for now until I get a stand and pump sorted eventually.
With both elements on it was damn quick to bring 30L to the boil. One element was enough to maintain the boil but only just. Will look at insulating the pot so I dont need to run both elements for the boil.


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## MarkBastard (13/12/10)

brewporn


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## Cortez The Killer (13/12/10)

Can't see it in the thread

How many litres is the pot?

Awesome set up

Cheers


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## husky (13/12/10)

pot is 70L. 450mm diameter x 450mm height. It was a bit of a comprimise knowing that one day Im sure I would like to do the odd double batch. Massive overkill for my regular 20L batch atm.


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## argon (13/12/10)

love the dual ss elements. I was just going to add one on top of the other for my kettle. But a little welding by the father in law should sort this out with a much neater solution.

Nice one :beerbang:


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## WhiteWolf (13/12/10)

argon said:


> love the dual ss elements. I was just going to add one on top of the other for my kettle. But a little welding by the father in law should sort this out with a much neater solution.
> 
> Nice one :beerbang:


+1 Now all I need to do is find someone that could SS weld a bracket like that one - sweet :super:


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## leonjw (13/12/10)

+2 ! although i already bought an over the side element to boost my boiling and heating  

My pot is aluminium so I think I could get the local boat builder to easily cut and weld a plate in my pot.

was thinking of going RIM system with my biab eventually.


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## dcx3 (13/12/10)

Thanks for the photos husky, im starting something similiar so its good to visualize it.


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## husky (14/12/10)

argon said:


> love the dual ss elements. I was just going to add one on top of the other for my kettle. But a little welding by the father in law should sort this out with a much neater solution.
> 
> Nice one :beerbang:



I did think about simply putting one above the other,however in my situation I have quite alot of dead space under the basket and on the outside meaning for a 5.5kg grain bill I need 24L of strike water to cover the grain. this does not leave much volume for a sparge(although I'm planing to ditch the sparge all together next brew). And by getting the elements side by side I can cut 30mm off the base of the inner basket so it sits a bit lover in the pot. Side by side also gives a bit of clearance from the top of the elements to the underside of the basket so during mash I can turn the elements on for a short burst just to add a little bit of heat if the temp is dropping.


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## raven19 (14/12/10)

When is the Christening of this beast due?

Nice setup +3


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## husky (14/12/10)

Hopefully this weekend but most likley Boxing day. Going to attempt razz's vienna recipe with a stepped mash shcedule so will test the ability of the two elements to quickly ramp up the temp.


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## husky (4/1/11)

Finally got this fired up yesterday. Put down the coopers pale ale recipe that Andrew put up on the db.
Firstly I must say that everyone should try electricity in the brewery! so damn easy.
I started with 36L at mash in. Used hot water to fill up then used one element to bring up to 66 degrees. Mashed with a couple of degrees temp drop as i still have vertually no insulation so i fired up one element for a minute and stirred to add a couple of degrees to the mash halfway.
25g POR flowers allowed to free ball in the mesh basket for the 60 minute boil.

I wasnt that impressed with the boil using one element so I used both for the boil (4400W). Quite a vigerous boil. Boiloff was 8.3L over the 60 minutes. Software predicted 6.8L so i was a couple of liters short. I didnt bother to adjust for this loss as the gravity was 1.042 which is what I expected.

Switched elements off at end of boil and allowed to sit for a minute. Attempted a bit of a whirlpool. It worked slightly, a bit of gunk in the middle but it was very half hearted. Next time I will get a propper spoon and give it a better go.

Drained all but a half litre into a cube and cooled over night.
Pitched the yeast from a 2.5L coopers started and waiting for the bubbles to start!

The elements has a slight buildup of crud after the boil but this cleaned easily with a wite of the sponge and did not affest the boil performance. I will upload some boil video later.

Heres a few pics from yesterday.



The setup with a short piece of camping mat to attempt a bit of insulation









After the mash, basket raised pushing down on the grain bed to drain sugary water








25g POR ready for the boil








The elements after the boil








My first time using a cube, so damn easy








Playing the waiting game


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## Gout (4/1/11)

looking good mate! 

just watch the starsan on the bench, i recall it can stain/bleach the bench top if you spill it/ ring around the bottle etc.


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## husky (7/1/11)

I have heard about starsan bleaching a bench top, I did a test a while ago on the piece we cut out for the sink, couldnt notice any bleaching or staining, it is a white/light coloured top though so it would be hard to notice.

Just doing some calcs on the brew day. I got 74% effieciency into the fermenter with no sparge and no mash out. So that would be somewhere around 80% into kettle I would imagine.

Total electricity cost - $0.75c for the boil and negligable for the heta from 55 degree tap water to 65 degree mash temp. If you had a smaller vessel and use just the one element the obviously the electricity cost would only be around $0.40c for the boil. Certainly cheaper than using 9kg gas bottles. Nice being able to brew on the bench inside and watch some cricket at the same time.

Next on the cards is a brew stand and sort out a stir plate.


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## brettprevans (7/1/11)

mate thats nice.

I really want you (and other BIABers) to send your pics to the Amercian Brewing Assoc specificlly the Zymurgy mag. in this months issue its their '5th annual brew gadgets' edition. one of the brew gadgets is someone using a hoist for BIAB. seriously blokes in Oz have been doing that for centires. ok not centries but years, and with your ss basket pics i recon it should be shown to the yanks.


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## usastman (7/1/11)

Guys,

Here is my BIAB set up. Have done about 4 brews now.

I use an immersion heater to heat and boil the water.

Around the pot I have a collapsable drinks bin I got from Bunnings - its actually called a SMASH - ironic as I use it to mash.

I insulated around the pot with some insulation wadding. Seems to keep the temp well.

Issue: I have just done a wheat beer and a coopers clone. My final gravities were around 1.055 - which is what I was after but my final gravity for my wheat was around 1.025 (not low enough). I think that my thermometer is bit doggy and my mash temp was too high. So I think I ended up with non fermentanle sugars??


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## Siborg (7/1/11)

Looks good. Husky, are they those elements that craftbrewer/keg king are selling for ~$40? Are they weldless?


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## husky (7/1/11)

CM2 - will look into it although I dont see it as anything really that new since the brau uses a basket within a post as well.

Siborg - Yes these are the same elements. 32mm hole and weldless, very easy to install. I got mine from a store in Mansfield. $120 posted for three elements from memory. Can find the details if you like. You dont need the power supply cable, just grab some off old computers or the llike.


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## Siborg (7/1/11)

husky said:


> CM2 - will look into it although I dont see it as anything really that new since the brau uses a basket within a post as well.
> 
> Siborg - Yes these are the same elements. 32mm hole and weldless, very easy to install. I got mine from a store in Mansfield. $120 posted for three elements from memory. Can find the details if you like. You dont need the power supply cable, just grab some off old computers or the llike.


Sorry to keep going OT, but are they stainless? What do you use to clean them? I have some Chinese copper immersions I'm looking at replacing.


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## husky (7/1/11)

Heres the link for the ones I ordered:

http://www.aussiebrewmakers.com.au/retail_.../60800_item.htm

Exactly the same as craftbrewer however everytime I went to order from craft brewer they were sold out.
They are 304 grade stainless. I used a sponge to wipe the crud off, it was not baked on at all and being a smooth surface was easy to just wipe cleam. 
The chinese stuff scares the hell out of me, I have a spare third one here if you want to borrow or take a look at them before you decide to buy if you want.


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## Siborg (7/1/11)

husky said:


> Heres the link for the ones I ordered:
> 
> http://www.aussiebrewmakers.com.au/retail_.../60800_item.htm
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm not the biggest fan and I want to stop using them. I know a sparkie who's gonna wire up a couple of 15A circuits in my garage for me. Plan to run one on my HLT with a timer (he suggested a decent one that will be able to handle the load) then two on my boiler. Will use two to get up to the boil, then the one to maintain. Is that what you did, or did you run the two the whole time?


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## technoicon (7/1/11)

have you tried it with out the bag? i'd be interested how much grain gets through.. 

one thing you could do anyway is put what's left into a bag after wards and drain it that way?


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## husky (7/1/11)

Siborg said:


> Yeah I'm not the biggest fan and I want to stop using them. I know a sparkie who's gonna wire up a couple of 15A circuits in my garage for me. Plan to run one on my HLT with a timer (he suggested a decent one that will be able to handle the load) then two on my boiler. Will use two to get up to the boil, then the one to maintain. Is that what you did, or did you run the two the whole time?




I tried both, was happier with the boil vigor when both were on. I dare say though when its insulated properly that one will be enough.


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## husky (7/1/11)

Awesome Fury said:


> have you tried it with out the bag? i'd be interested how much grain gets through..
> 
> one thing you could do anyway is put what's left into a bag after wards and drain it that way?




not yet, I have the same mesh used for false bottome here that I want to dome and put in the bottom of the basket. I already have stainless sheet to use as a solid side. Hoping to be able to test that setup in a month or so.


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## husky (28/1/11)

Step mash completed successfully.
55 for 10
63 for 45
72 for 20 
76 for 10

Raise basket, apply heat of both elements then drop basket. Temps ramp up very quickly. Didnt bother to raise the basket for the last on, just stieerd with both elements on. 
For this size pot I think a 3600W element would be purfect. 2200W definalty not enough without serious insulation and foil on top of the boil. 4400W gives lots of boil off which im not concerned about.


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## gava (20/4/11)

Ive mounted two elements within my kettle (70lt Robinox) but I had to mount mine a little higher due to a false bottom and a SS pickup, one is higher than the other..
Will this effect my efficiency of boiling? since its not on the bottom of the pot? if it does that sucks because it too late to change..


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## husky (20/4/11)

I wouldn't think so mate, with two of these going theres so much fluid motion that I wouldn't expect to notice any differance.


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## gava (20/4/11)

here is some pics





.


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## husky (1/8/11)

husky said:


> not yet, I have the same mesh used for false bottome here that I want to dome and put in the bottom of the basket. I already have stainless sheet to use as a solid side. Hoping to be able to test that setup in a month or so.





Finally got around to doing this. Made up a false bottom from the same perforated sheet as the beerbelly false bottoms, slightly rolles a section od 1.6mm s/s sheet to use as a solid wall. This should allow me to use the basket as a BIAB basket to hold the voile bag as I have been and also experiment with not using the voile and trying to recirs through the grain bed to improve clarity. 
Hopefully I will get a chance to try it out this weekend, just need march pump to arrive.

Next stage: Build a RIMS tube to suit my spare 2200W S/S element.


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## husky (24/11/11)

My latest piece of brewing equipment is a RIMS tube. Have played with the march pump but now have to wire up the PID and give this a go. Its a 1.5" tube with a standard off the shelf S/S 2200W heating element. Had to use a 2" to 1.5" reducer to allow a 2" triclamp blank to house the heating element fitting. 
I had the inlet and outlet made tangental and opposite hoping to induce a swirling action across the heating element. 
Need to find time to try it out now, and to figure out how to wire the PID and SSR.
Have also has a wort return dish made up hoping to see if I can get some better wort clarity as I run the rims through the grain bed in the BIAB system.


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## matho (24/11/11)

looks good husky, lots of people on this forum that will be able to help with the pid stuff

p.s. I love shinny stainless steel


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## husky (26/2/12)

Finally had a chance to test out my new setup. It is now a BIAB with RIMS single vessel system although now the BIAB bag is not required. I did use it for the last brew as it still amkes it easier to handle the spent grain.
Brewed an AIPA with 7.5kg grain bill and mash temp held spot on with only 0.1 degree deviation. With the full volume mash I was able to run almost full flow through the march pump and rims.

Points of note:

GOOD

Beautiful clear wort into kettle. I realise this doesnt nessecerely improve the beer but it was one of my aims with the new setup.

Easily maintained mash temp

Alot less trub in the kettle. Was worried about this going through the plate chiller as I didn't get a good whirlpool going. I guess alot of stuff gets gaught up in the grain bed. Only had 2L kettle trub after the boil of which I used 1.5L in a starter for the next brew.

Absolutly no scorching of the RIMS element

More toys to play with

BAD

Lower efficiency. Down to 74% instead of my usual 79%. Could be because of the high gravity mash as well 1.065 predicted. Only managed 1.060. This could also have been because the mash was overflowing the inner pot for the first half hour without me noticing. I raised the inner slightly to prevent this which ensured all recirc liquor went bach through the grain bed and not over the side. Will know to watch for this next time.

Lots more cleaning



Overall I think I have added a bit more time to brew day. Will ahve to wait and see if the brews benefit. I think the plate chiller will help for my hoppy brews but I think I will still no chill when it is convenient. It was harder trying to sync having yeast starters ready for the end of brew day. Better planning will help this.


Improvments planned:

Really need to make a brew stand

A high volume wort return setup

Higher responce PT100 probe

Perhaps a second pump to ged a really good whirl pool going


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## husky (26/2/12)

No scorching on the RIMS element


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## Crusty (27/2/12)

husky said:


> No scorching on the RIMS element
> 
> View attachment 52685



Nice setup husky. Seems as though everything is on track. Just wondering if you could possibly post your setup & info over here just to keep us all together & maybe help those contemplating going for a Rims system. Pictures & detailed info would be beneficial for everyone.
Cheers


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## husky (27/2/12)

Done mate, didn't even know about that thread. A LOT less info there than the HERMS one. I actually used the HERMS problem solution thread to setup my RIMS as they are 90% the same. Same method of control etc only RIMS is a direct heat via element and HERMS is indirect via heating water and passing energy to the wort via a coil. Once i was able to see the systems in that way I used the PID info from the HERMS threads. The RIMS thread might benefit from tube design info and places to buy suitable tubes. From what I can gather HERMS users out number RIMS by at least 20 to 1. Perhaps because the HERMS are easier to set up? Pot and a coil and kettle element, done. Seemed that many are worried about scorching with a RIMS however I think it is mostly un-founded or user error causing this issue. Having said that, I wouldnt use a high density element on a RIMS system just in case. In a HERMS it doesnt matter.
My RIMS element is approx 50 w/sqm. You can get them down to 32 w/sqm as a standard.
Happy to help anyone wanting to setup a RIMS system, I did a lot of research before deciding.


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## razz (27/2/12)

Nice job Husky, a couple of questions.
Some of your components look similar to products from Brewers Hardware in the US, I take it you had them made up locally?
Sitting on the left of your brew bench is a s/s tube that looks like a trub filter, is it? Or do you use it as a hop back?


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## raven19 (27/2/12)

Awesome husky! Bravo on the build.

Glad to see no scorching too. I am pretty sure mine only scorched due to running the element shortly with no flow (pump wasn't on!)

Edit - look forward to seeing the pics of your rig on its new frame one day.

Edit 2 - re efficiency, I found a slightly longer mash helps with bigger beers, but I still get similar 70% ish numbers whether its on the RIMS or back in the old days using my esky MT. It certainly drops for me down to 55-60% for BIG OG beers.


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## husky (27/2/12)

razz said:


> Nice job Husky, a couple of questions.
> Some of your components look similar to products from Brewers Hardware in the US, I take it you had them made up locally?
> Sitting on the left of your brew bench is a s/s tube that looks like a trub filter, is it? Or do you use it as a hop back?




Yes mate, based my tube on these:

http://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clover-RIMS-Tube.html

Made some tweaks to suit what I wanted it to do namely:

Tangental in/out

Smaller triclover fittings for in/out

2" to 1.5" reducer to allow use of an off the shelf 2200W element. Could have welded the element sheath to a 1.5" triclover blank but if the element crapped itself I would need to have another made or keep a spare.

Length to suit my element and probe


The materials were cheap through work so it only really cost me favours to have the welding done. Wanted someone who works with food grade work daily to ensure it was properly purged etc.



The other tube is a hop back. Going to pack it with flowers once I harvest 2011 plants shortly. Hoping it filters nicely before running through the chiller. 

Would like to have a mesh screen made up so it can be used as a filter even for brews that dont need the late aroma hit.


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## razz (27/2/12)

I'm thinking about a trub filter from brewers Hardware. I will wait until I try out one of these
I pick it up from the post office tomorrow, if it does a good job on break and hops then I'll settle with that.


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## razz (27/2/12)

husky said:


> Yes mate, based my tube on these:
> 
> http://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clover-RIMS-Tube.html
> 
> ...


I forgot to add a comment on your wort return problem you were talking about. I was using a Beerbelly return dish, similar to what you have now. I've now changed to a single piece of silicone tube with a piece of armour flex to help it float. if you use 3-4 lts per kg of grain you will be able to recycle reasonably fast and get a whirlpool going on top of the grain bed.


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## husky (27/2/12)

raven19 said:


> Awesome husky! Bravo on the build.
> 
> Glad to see no scorching too. I am pretty sure mine only scorched due to running the element shortly with no flow (pump wasn't on!)
> 
> ...




Thanks mate. Ideally an interlock between the pump and element should be installed. Its on the list as a very low priority atm. 
Hopefully the frame isn't too far away. Would like to do it this year anyway.


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## husky (27/2/12)

razz said:


> I'm thinking about a trub filter from brewers Hardware. I will wait until I try out one of these
> I pick it up from the post office tomorrow, if it does a good job on break and hops then I'll settle with that.




I just had a look at the brewers hardware ones and they look pretty good. I hadnt seen them before. Same goes for the electric brewery ones. These would be preferable as you dont have the dead space of the tube.

The other ones I have been contemplating are these:

http://www.geordi.com.au/Filters1_files/Inline1h.pdf

Was thinking of a fine mesh version and possibly runnning a filter element as well.

What was postage on the electric brewery variety and what size did you order? Im interested in how this goes as it certainly looks the goods. I have some similar mesh at work however not sure how to join the edges as they have.


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## husky (27/2/12)

razz said:


> I forgot to add a comment on your wort return problem you were talking about. I was using a Beerbelly return dish, similar to what you have now. I've now changed to a single piece of silicone tube with a piece of armour flex to help it float. if you use 3-4 lts per kg of grain you will be able to recycle reasonably fast and get a whirlpool going on top of the grain bed.




Is the armour flex the nozzle looking thing in the end of the silicone tube? Might try something similar next brew. I have some half inch annealed stainless tube bent up as my whirlpool attachment. might add a bit of silicone to the end and try that as wort return as well.


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## razz (28/2/12)

No, the armourflex is the piece of grey foam siting over the silicone, when the mash is recycling the foam sits closer to the outlet to keep the silicone at the right level. With your return you may be able to use the 90 degree angle pipe to create something similar, but you would have to remove it from the dish. 
The small nozzle is from a peristaltic pump kit from Craftbrewer. I use it to increase the velocity of the liquor returning to the mash. It allows me to keep the ball valve on the pump at about 25-30% open.


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## husky (11/3/12)

Had an interesting brew day today. Put down the following recipe:


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: German LAger - Batch 24
Brewer: Braden
Asst Brewer: 
Style: German Pilsner (Pils)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 30.00 L 
Boil Size: 42.90 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.34 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 98.45 % 
0.10 kg Acidulated (Weyermann) (3.5 EBC) Grain 1.55 % 
65.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [5.20 %] (60 min)Hops 29.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Saaz [3.70 %] (10 min) Hops 1.8 IBU 
15.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [5.20 %] (10 min)Hops 2.5 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
4.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
4.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) [StarteYeast-Lager 


Mash Schedule: Lager mash
Total Grain Weight: 6.44 kg
----------------------------
Lager mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
10 min Protein rest Heat to 52.0 C over 2 min 52.0 C 
45 min Sacc rest Heat to 63.0 C over 2 min 63.0 C 
20 min Alpha rest Heat to 72.0 C over 2 min 72.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 76.0 C over 2 min 76.0 C 

All my previous mash sequences have always started with a 
golden colour wort. This one started white and seemed to have alot of flour. It was the first time using acidulated malt, and also using all pilsner malt. Not sure why but the mash started out white







I tried opening the valves to get more flow and see if this cleared it up but ended up with a stuck mash. Stirred the grain and started the pump again. I can get to half valve movment before starting to have mash flow issues.











Had Nice clear wort again once the white colour dissappeared afte about 30 minutes of mashing











Had to improvise on the temperature probe while I wait for my new one (plus three spares!)






Some late hopped beers as I was brewing!









Anyone had similar issues?
Will find a pic of the element after taking the RIMS tube apart!!!! slightly scary


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## husky (11/3/12)

This is what I found after brew day:







Wort tastes normal and colour is still like straw. No issues heating through each step either. 
Must be due to the material in the wort as It was flowing white.
Have taken to the element with a scourer and not sure if it will clean up.
The elements in the kettle suffered a similar fate although not as bad. Definatly something about this brew. Not had an issue like this before.

Perhaps the low starting mash temp of 52 degrees? Or the acidulated malt? Anyone shed some light?


cheers.


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## kelbygreen (11/3/12)

WOW! that sucks. I assume thats stainless???


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## booargy (11/3/12)

husky said:


> This is what I found after brew day:
> 
> 
> View attachment 52985
> ...



When this burnings happening I clean with grinder using a synthetic rust removing disk. h34r: Then finish wiv napisan and green scotchbrite scourer. h34r: 

I mainly brew lagers. This happens with these elemnets all the time in a rims tube. It seems to only be at the lower steps. Now I do infusion mash up to the 60's rest. Then step from there with the rims.


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## razz (11/3/12)

Too much flour from the crush by the looks Husky. Perhaps the best way to avoid scorching on the element is to recirc, for some time with out the element on, until the liquor runs straw colour and then use the element.


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## husky (11/3/12)

I did recirc for quite a while before switching the element on. About 20 mins at 52(possibly why I get a slightly sour taste as well). Turned the element on and once I reached 63 degrees the colour changed from white to straw.
Used the same mill gap and all. Only difference really was that last time used JW ale and this time used Whey Pils. Also the starting temp of 52 instead of my usual 65 odd.
Im sure the element will clean up. Soaking in Sodium Perc atm. Will get the grinder and polyflan wheel onto it next week(used to polish S/S welds at work)
Time to read up omn the chemistry of what is happening early on in the mash I think.
Would have spent alot on time at 52 recirculating to clear up enough to ramp the temperature up I think.


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## husky (25/3/12)

Waiting for fermenter to free up after the current lager so no brewing for another coupe of weeks. Finally fittes some switches to the electrical cabinet.
RIMS element cleaned up with a polishing wheel on the grinder. 
New PT100 probe arrived
Finally started on the keg freezer too.
Brew stand partially drawn, just need to get it fabricated now. Might have a crack in the shed if I acn borrow a TIG.


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## kelbygreen (25/3/12)

nice


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## husky (20/6/12)

I have been very slack and slow to make progress of late. A few things have changed since last update.
Made a brew stand. Stupidly out of 50x3 stainless steel and not 50x1.6 It is one heavy unit! Have a bracket temporarily mounted until I decide exactly where I want it installed. 

The brew stand is big enough for 3V with a HERMS pot which I think is the path I will eventually take, however I cant fully commit as yes because I like the idea of a single vessel brewery.

Have attached some current pictures of a vienna lager brew day. System running very well getting 80% efficiancy and nice clear wort. Vert repeatable OG targets.

Next job is to get rid of the ball valves and replace with some butterfly valves. Also trying to complete the keg setup. Should hopefully have some pics of that shortly.


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## husky (22/7/12)

Finally had some time in the shed this weekend, and now have a working keg setup. Still plenty of work to do but the basics are there. Still need to mount temp controller, make drip tray paint, add more taps. I found out how much fun it is not drilling large holes in stainless steel!


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## bullsneck (23/7/12)

I like the look of your stand. You make that yourself?


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## gava (24/7/12)

is that PID controller a cheap one from ebay? if so does it work ok? 



husky said:


> I have been very slack and slow to make progress of late. A few things have changed since last update.
> Made a brew stand. Stupidly out of 50x3 stainless steel and not 50x1.6 It is one heavy unit! Have a bracket temporarily mounted until I decide exactly where I want it installed.
> 
> The brew stand is big enough for 3V with a HERMS pot which I think is the path I will eventually take, however I cant fully commit as yes because I like the idea of a single vessel brewery.
> ...


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## husky (24/7/12)

bullsneck said:


> I like the look of your stand. You make that yourself?




I wish. Designed and drew it but had a mate make it up in exchange for design favours.Only had to supply material and beers.
I will be welding on various brackets etc before doing a mechanical polish.


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## husky (24/7/12)

gava said:


> is that PID controller a cheap one from ebay? if so does it work ok?



Yes mate, it is a $20 ebay one. Works well, has the same functions and menus as the more expensive Auber unit. Just wish I got the ramp soak model. Its on the to do list.


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## Phatsailing (28/9/13)

Sic setup Husky and gday all. Hoping I can jump in here and ask for some suggestions for heating element rods as not too far of the topic of conversation. Am new to the BIAB coming from bottling extract brews so on my way up I suppose. Started threading/shinning some nasty bits of steel pipe having seen this principle of heating/re-circulating else where though after finding this thread, I'm the better man for it and just clicked confirm purchase for the brewershardware rims tube plus some bits including the 1' NPS element adaptor. Bit trigger happy though thought a 240 element to suit shouldnt be too hard to find? Google searches are taking me to omega, watco etc. Are these overkill? Any Australian distributors anyone can recommend? After reading this thread it seems the cheapys are prone to blow outs so, and I'm sure any amount of money could be spent though any recommendations in the middle field? Cheers (have a mountain of Q's re-how to plug this in and begin building a PID controller though am sure there's specific forums else where on that)


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## razz (29/9/13)

http://www.stoveconnection.com.au/shop/index.php/store/hot-water/elements.html
Try them Phatsailing, you will need to get the right thread for the element adaptor you got from the US. I think a few AHB members have purchased from them.


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## Phatsailing (29/9/13)

Thanks Razz, having a gander now


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## Phatsailing (30/9/13)

husky said:


> Finally had a chance to test out my new setup. It is now a BIAB with RIMS single vessel system although now the BIAB bag is not required. I did use it for the last brew as it still amkes it easier to handle the spent grain.
> Brewed an AIPA with 7.5kg grain bill and mash temp held spot on with only 0.1 degree deviation. With the full volume mash I was able to run almost full flow through the march pump and rims.
> 
> Points of note:
> ...


Gday Husky, man I hate asking dumb questions but not even sure what this things is called to look it up myself: Can I ask what is the suspended cup (3rd pic from the top), on end of re-circ outlet (i'm taking is where it's attached) in your kettle, and if that is infact where it's mounted, what it's purpose is? Cheers


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## husky (9/10/13)

Hey mate, Its a wort return dish used to gently return the wort back to the top of the mash while recirculating. I dont really notice any difference when I just use the silicone hose to return to the mash as long as the flow rate is low enough.
cheers,


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## Phatsailing (30/4/14)

husky said:


> Hey mate, Its a wort return dish used to gently return the wort back to the top of the mash while recirculating. I dont really notice any difference when I just use the silicone hose to return to the mash as long as the flow rate is low enough.
> 
> cheers,


Thanks bud. Bit of a belated reply but on that point of returning wort to mash, and sorry if this is discussed elsewhere, can I ask in your experience do you reckon too much agitation of the grain (not splashing) has a bad effect? Say for example not allowing grain to settle? Soon to start step mashing with rims add on, pending some pid bits, and a heads up would be appreciated. Cheers


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## spog (30/4/14)

razz said:


> Too much flour from the crush by the looks Husky. Perhaps the best way to avoid scorching on the element is to recirc, for some time with out the element on, until the liquor runs straw colour and then use the element.


Hmm,I would agree, I think the "white" colour could be due to a possible recirculation blockage and the white colour being the flour which is not being recirculated ,remaining in suspension then scorching the element.
Maybe a bit of manual stirring to get a more even mix during recirculation will help?
Bugga,just noticed the difference in the post dates,gotta clean or get new glasses......


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