# BIAB CHINOOK IPA



## Hez (11/9/17)

Hi, I have a lot of Chinook hops leftovers and I'd like to make an IPA. I was thinking about buying other hops but I eventually ran into a recipe called: "Chinook IPA". Apparently, it's so popular, Northen Brewer sells a kit for that but I'm doing BIAB and from scratch, as usual... I'm not willing to buy any kit.

I found a recipe in other yankie forum (old post) which they say it won several contests and everyone said they love it.. blah blah... I've adapted it to my batch size and the alpha acid of my hops, etc.

Thanks in advance for your help.


*Doubts and questions for you: *

1.- The grain is calculated from the original recipe but I would like it to be darker, around 10SRM.. Should I add more munich and more crystal (twice as munich than crystal) or only increment the crystal malt? Would you add another kind of roasted malt?

2.- Do you think those mash steps are all right? Would you change the time/temp of each step? add more steps? anything different?

3.- The original recipe asked for mash hops. What do you think? I'm not sure, so I've added more into the boiling instead in order to match the IBU in the calculations. Is that ok?

4.- When they say 0' for a hop addition, that means to add the hops and remove them after chilling or to add them directly to the fermenter while adding the yeast? Do I add them 5' before the end of the boil and remove them after or before chilling? I chill my wort in the sink with esky blocks and changin the water, so it takes quite a bit to reach the correct temperature...

5.- I'm not changing my beer from one fermenter to a secondary one, and I'm going to bottle it. Would you do the dry hopping right after 2 days of fermenting or after 3? 4? How long will it take to finish the fermentation (aprox.)?


*Grain (3590g):*

72.55% 2610g Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
15.69% 560g Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
7.84% 280g lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
3.92% 140g Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)

Estimated Pre-Boil OG: 1.045
Estimated OG: 1.067
Estimated FG: 1.019
Estimated ABV: 6.31%
65% efficiency <- last time I had 68%, but... just in case.
SRM: 5.71
EBC: 11.24


*Water:*

10l Batch
3.59g grain bill
0.8l/kg grain absorption
16.25l pre boil
90' boil
3.5l/h boil off rate
11l postboil
1l trub
total water needed 19.12l
total mash volume 21.52l


*Mash Schedule (90'):*

48º for 20'
65º for 60' 
75.5º for 10'
sparge at 75.5º


*Boil (90'):*

TOTAL IBU: 65

60' 16.2g Chinook [11.90 %] 46.3 IBU 
15' 13.2g Chinook [11.90 %] 18.7 IBU 
10' 1/2 tablet of deltafloc
0' 13.2g Chinook [11.90 %] 

DRY HOP 13.2g Chinook [11.90 %] 
DRY HOP 16.5g Cascade [6.50 %] 


*Yeast:*

Safale US-5 at 20º


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## TwoCrows (11/9/17)

There are so many things that you could change with this recipe. Search for BIAB beer designer V1.3 
Just try it and see as it is only a small batch. With modern malts just mash in at 65 and mashout at 76.
The 0 minute addition doesn't state IBU, so it could be a steep/ whirlpool addition @ 82-90 degrees?
You want to dry hop at approx. day 4 when the fermentation is nearly finished. This will help get the most out of your hops, the yeast are still active and the remaining ferment will continue to create Co2 and help prevent oxygenation to the wort.
Fermenting at 20 degrees, 18-19 would be better but this will be ok, the ferment should be done in 6-7 days then let it clean its self up for a few days.


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## shacked (11/9/17)

This is what I'd do:

- mash at 64-65
- mash out 75 (ish)
- forget mash hops
- 60m boil
- shoot for about 35% of total IBU from your first addition. 
- load up on hops between 15 and 0. 
- round up all the hop amounts to the nearest 5g (that's just my thing)
- ferment at 18, ramp to 20 around day 4ish 
- dry hop towards the end of fermentation


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## Hez (11/9/17)

TwoCrows said:


> There are so many things that you could change with this recipe. Search for BIAB beer designer V1.3
> Just try it and see as it is only a small batch. With modern malts just mash in at 65 and mashout at 76.
> The 0 minute addition doesn't state IBU, so it could be a steep/ whirlpool addition @ 82-90 degrees?
> You want to dry hop at approx. day 4 when the fermentation is nearly finished. This will help get the most out of your hops, the yeast are still active and the remaining ferment will continue to create Co2 and help prevent oxygenation to the wort.
> Fermenting at 20 degrees, 18-19 would be better but this will be ok, the ferment should be done in 6-7 days then let it clean its self up for a few days.


I just read an article about dry hopping after posting and it agrees with you.
There's no point on dry hopping until fermentation is almost done otherwise all the aroma will escape with the CO2 through the airlock. Jeje thank you!

I think I will do just 3 additions, at 60', 15' and dry hopping after 4 days.

All the beers I've done so far have taken about 5 to 6 days to finish fermentation I asked because this will be the most alcoholic so far! Thanks, good to know more or less this is a constant

I use several calculators for getting all these data, I will look into this general one you tell me.. if I have time maybe I make my own one.

What about the grain and colour? Would you put more crystal? More Munich? Both? Any roasted one? I wonder what kind of flavour would I get with other combination... Maybe I should do a first one sticking to the recipe and move on from there for the next one.


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## manticle (11/9/17)

It's a weird recipe.

I prefer EITHER pale + crystal OR pale + munich - not both.

Chinook is a very dank, resinous hop so I'd look at balancing with crystal but that's personal preference.

While I'm a fan of step mashing, I do it for a reason and I can't see a reason for the 48. Maybe something to do with a us recipe based on 6-row pale - not something that's needed here. Only time I'd use a temp close to that (more like 45) would be to push 4-vinyl guaiacol formation in a hefe via ferulic acid rest. Any reason for that step?

Mash hopping is a weird idea and not one I am convinced by. First wort hopping is a different kettle of fish.

0 min addition means as soon as you turn heat off, you add hops.

Some dry hop throughout ferment and at the end (common with NEIPA) but I prefer at the end for a couple of days max. I'm not a crazy hop head lupulin addict though.


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## fletcher (11/9/17)

changes i'd make would be:

1. remove the munich from the recipe if possible. 92% pale, 5% carapils, 3% crystal or thereabouts
2. mash at 65c (then mash out at 75c)
3. hop additions at first wort or 60 mins (to about 30ibu), and a HUGE addition at whirlpool (30-40ibu).
4. ferment at 18c
5. dry hop the rest of your hops when fermentation has almost finished - about 1.015 - it should hopefully finish closer to 1.010ish.
6. sexual


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## laxation (11/9/17)

For the colour, I would think about what flavour you're trying to add and then look for a malt that adds that flavour


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## rude (12/9/17)

No Munich 
No crystal with Munich 
Is this a IPA thing ?
Im a munich fiend sorry & often use both but will try without to see
Like the 60 min idea at 30 ibu


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## fletcher (12/9/17)

rude said:


> No Munich
> No crystal with Munich
> Is this a IPA thing ?
> Im a munich fiend sorry & often use both but will try without to see
> Like the 60 min idea at 30 ibu



just for IPAs that are brewed 'to style'. this effectively means bugger-all because you can put whatever you want in, however 'to style' west coast IPAs are all about hops and hop imbalance. munich (in my opinion - and most definitely @Dan Pratt 's opinion) can muddle and cloud that lovely hop presence. definitely give it a try. neither with nor without munich are wrong. it's all about what you like, but experimentation is certainly fun.


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## Hez (12/9/17)

Sorry for not answering 1 to 1, too many of you! jejeje thank you all: @manticle, @fletcher, @rude, @shacked, @TwoCrows, @laxation.
After all your comments, these are the things I'm sure about:

- Only 2 step mash at 65º and 75º mash out and sparge. I read the 48º step in a yankie forum, maybe because of their 6-row industrial barley, I don't know. Thank you, @manticle.
- I'll totally ditch the idea of the mash hops. I already did before even asking you, but after reading your opinions I'm 100% sure about it.
- Do only 3 hop additions: at 60' (only up to 30IBU), 15' (big one) and after ~4 days when gravity is around 1.015
- Carapils give head retention and body, so they stay at a 5% wich is the magic number I've seen in pretty much all IPA recipes, articles, forums, etc. Thanks @fletcher.

But I still have doubts too... what do you think of this:

Total: 64.1 IBU
60' 10g Chinook (11.9%) 28.6 IBU
15' 25g Chinook (11.9%) 35.5 IBU
DRY HOP 15g Chinook [11.90 %]
DRY HOP 15g Cascade [6.50 %]

(rounded quantities @shacked jejeje)

Will it be enough aroma? If we go for an american IPA, we have to have a lot of hoppiness! I put the cascade because I have some left, around that amount, although I'm not sure, otherwise I will use more Chinook. I beleive Chinook and Cascade are a good combination (Sierra Nevada Pale Ale).

Munich gives malt flavour but not sweetness, so it looks like my thing... I like some maltiness. Crystal gives malt flavour and sweetness, so it has to stay low (I don't like very sweet pale ales / IPAs) but I beleive @manticle has a point when he says to put some in order to balance the pine/resin taste of the chinook.

I like @fletcher suggestion: 92% pale, 5% carapils, 3% crystal but that would give me a really really pale beer with pretty low to none maltiness.

92% 3300g Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
5% 180g Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
3% 110g lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)

SRM: 7.38 EBC: 14.53

I'll try the munich thing next time! Maybe with some german hops and no crystal... how does it sound a German IPA? jejeje


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## Mikeyr (12/9/17)

Chinook is my go to favourite hop, in fact someone did a "desert island" single hop thread i.e. what would you take ...... chinook's my pick.

Depending how much you have, I'd chuck some in to "mostly bitter" at 60 and then as much as you dare late in the piece. 10,5 or at flame out or all of the above. Steep late for heaps of aroma. If you had any Simcoe to play with, that's my all time favourite double act. Kind of like chewing a Vodka soaked pine cone in the bottom of a pine needle heap in a Tassie pine forest mid summer.

US IPA is technically hop driven with nothing in the way i.e. maltiness to hide the hops ........ meh! Plenty of pretty bloody different IPA's out of the states that break that rule and I'm guessing you're not entering the Olympics with this one. Go with what you like!

As for malt I'm a heathen use any base you like, I've used Marris, Pils, Pale through Golden P if variants of the same brew, all good, usually with a 5-10% wheat &/or 3-5% carapils for head and some crystal to colour. Personally I prefer a bit more body and sweetness so upping the temp a couple of degrees. 67ish


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## Hez (12/9/17)

Mikeyr said:


> Chinook is my go to favourite hop, in fact someone did a "desert island" single hop thread i.e. what would you take ...... chinook's my pick.
> 
> Depending how much you have, I'd chuck some in to "mostly bitter" at 60 and then as much as you dare late in the piece. 10,5 or at flame out or all of the above. Steep late for heaps of aroma. If you had any Simcoe to play with, that's my all time favourite double act. Kind of like chewing a Vodka soaked pine cone in the bottom of a pine needle heap in a Tassie pine forest mid summer.
> 
> ...



I don't know if you have read the whole post or just the first one, the recipe has evolved quite a bit... jejeje

About the total amount of IBUs, I've read it has to be balanced 1:1 with the gravity at most. I mean if I have OG 1065 the bitterness should be equal/less than 65 IBU I pussed it to the max because the original recipe in which I based mine called for that, and being a USA style IPA I think it should be like that.

Some people have adviced to put hops only up to 30IBU at 60' and leave the "big bittering hop addition" for the last 15', now you tell me to put all my bittering at the beginning and leave some for the last 10' to 0' of the boil.
I've read that hop aroma evaporates if it's boiled more than 10-15' and on the other side, hops added later than 15' don't have any effect on the bitterness. What I don't understand is what difference it makes to put the bittering hops at the beginning or at the end of the "bittering part of boiling". I mean: 
less hops + more boil time = more hops + less boil time
But will they leave a different flavour/aroma? What's the reason for using less than half of the bittering hops at the beginning?

About the hop additions from 10' to 0' of boil and before the end of fermentation, they are suposed to only leave aroma, but during the fermentarion this aroma is going to fly away with the CO2 through the airlock, so what's the point? There must be one if almost every IPA recipe calls for it! what is it?

Summary:
1.- bittering hops only at 60' or up to 30IBU at 60' and the rest at 15' ¿? why?
2.- why to use hops from 10' to 0' and/or dry hopping before the fermentation ends?


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## Mikeyr (12/9/17)

Think you have a good handle on it, not used the 1:1 method, plenty of good rules of thumb, often which disagree!

Definition of "big".....Comes down to your "hop budget", I'd agree with hopping late 100%, but you need a butt load more hops to achieve the same IBU. I'm planing a Smash this weekend using the 10 minute method. I.e. no 60 min addition, means I'm going to be using about 160g in one hit and then 50 for dry hopping later. 

Later additions creates less bitterness (IBUs) but leaves more aroma and flavour. Less of the volatiles boil off. 

Adding dry hops after most of the fermentation is complete add's back more aroma notes from the volatiles in the hops which are lost through the ferment process (gas off with the CO2). 

Not everything is lost in fermentation process, dry hopping is adding back some that are and adding some freshness. And if' you're lucky enough one day to get some hop cones to dry hop with rather than pellets well.........!!!!!!!

Coriander/Cilantro is a good comparison, raw seeds are a bit bland but have some nice flavours, toast them and they change their flavour and change their aroma. Coriander leaves go the other way, cook with then and you get a subtle peppery earthy flavour, add them late in any dish you get freshness. You can use the same plant 4 times in a cook and if you do you get a great result. Anyone who likes a good laksa would get it or I reckon if you've ever see old Heston B's idea that reinforcing the flavours throughout the cook provides layers of flavour and the bloody atomiser he uses at the table sometimes, seals the deal.

And if you want to implode your head ...... search cube hopping or keg hopping ........ (or listen to some podcasts/streams from Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer on The Brewing Network)

You've rolled the rock over on experimental hopping....... welcome to the darkside .....and you're going to need a bigger boat ....no hang on..., FREEZER!


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## Hez (12/9/17)

Mikeyr said:


> Think you have a good handle on it, not used the 1:1 method, plenty of good rules of thumb, often which disagree!
> 
> Definition of "big".....Comes down to your "hop budget", I'd agree with hopping late 100%, but you need a butt load more hops to achieve the same IBU. I'm planing a Smash this weekend using the 10 minute method. I.e. no 60 min addition, means I'm going to be using about 160g in one hit and then 50 for dry hopping later.
> 
> ...




Jejeje the light is slowly getting into me... I'm a newbie, this will be my 6th beer ever and my second attempt of making an IPA. The first one turned out to be a sweet not-bitter-at-all not-so-hoppy very-alcoholic pale ale and I used (wasted) over 70g of cascade on it for a 10l batch. The result was a nice weird beer easy to drink and very enjoyable, but totally different to what I expected. From a brewer's point of view: a total disaster.

It's interesting the thought of the "aroma layers". The analogy with the coriander is a good one. I think I will stick to the last hops plan: 30IBU at 60', 35IBU at 15' and same amount as dry hopped after 4 days in the fermenter. Do you think it's all right?

I like the maltiness but not so much the sweetness, so I'll take these guys advice. I'll try with just carapils and crystal for this one and next time I'll try with munich and no crystal. I know I'm not going to win any contest, I'm just learning... but I hope this one is better!

About the bigger boat and freezer... yes, I know  but I'm staying in Australia for... not much more so that will have to wait until I go back home. I'll try to put the fermenter in a cold part of my appartment, I think I'll be able to keep the temp around 20º

---- COOKING OFFTOPIC ----
In Spain (I'm from Madrid) we barely use coriander but I love eating and cooking things from other parts of the world, so I know what you mean. Same thing happens to other herbs. For instance dried parsley is "bland" but fresh parsley is amazing, however dried oregano has a very intense aroma and fresh is much more subtle. If you cook with dried parsley you get flavour but if you cook with fresh parsley you don't get so much. 
A typical basque sauce is the "salsa verde" (green sauce), basically you put some olive oil, lots of thin cut garlic and 1 or 2 small cayenne peppers in a pan, cook it until the garlic is a little golden, then you add some white wine and fish stock (this is usually made for clams, so if you steam-cook some clams, you can add their "juice" instead) and a lot of dried parsley. After the sauce has reduced a little (let the wine bubble) you add your fish or clams (half cooked separatedly), a little more fresh parsley and finish to cook. Just before serving you add some more fresh parsley and a really good olive oil on top. That IS sexual @fletcher, beleive me.
I do it here with stargazer and pippies sometimes and it's delicious, best served with some Pinot Gris from NZ. If you want the full recipe with video and all, look for "rape en salsa verde con almejas". Basque cuisine is amazing. Lots of Michelin stars up there... gora euskadi!


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## fletcher (12/9/17)

Hez said:


> Sorry for not answering 1 to 1, too many of you! jejeje thank you all: @manticle, @fletcher, @rude, @shacked, @TwoCrows, @laxation.
> After all your comments, these are the things I'm sure about:
> 
> - Only 2 step mash at 65º and 75º mash out and sparge. I read the 48º step in a yankie forum, maybe because of their 6-row industrial barley, I don't know. Thank you, @manticle.
> ...



again, these are all MY opinions, so please, take them for what they are. from the sounds of it, you're after an american ipa, so i'm trying to suggest more west coast 'to style' suggestions - pale, hoppy, dry ipas. i've had success with munich before in ipas, but only because the large amount of hops were the main attraction (which negated the need and flavour of munich). i re-made the recipe without and the flavour became much sharper and less-muddled. 

edit: please expand on your quoted post to see my other replies to your points


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## Hez (12/9/17)

fletcher said:


> again, these are all MY opinions, so please, take them for what they are. from the sounds of it, you're after an american ipa, so i'm trying to suggest more west coast 'to style' suggestions - pale, hoppy, dry ipas. i've had success with munich before in ipas, but only because the large amount of hops were the main attraction (which negated the need and flavour of munich). i re-made the recipe without and the flavour became much sharper and less-muddled.
> 
> edit: please expand on your quoted post to see my other replies to your points


Thanks a lot!

I have a couple of questions about 0' hop additions... Do I use a sock and leave it there until I bottle or should I remove it before going into the fermenter? 
I have a hop metal container (eBay, 6$) and I remove the bittering hops before chilling.

And... If I add 30ibu at 60' and the rest at 0' where the f*** are the other 35 ibu?!? [emoji848]


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## manticle (12/9/17)

Unless you are whirlpool or cube hopping (or own a hop farm), you probably won't get 35 from zero min. That's why the recommendation for 50% at 60, then the remaining 50 from additions from 20 down to 0. You'll get some ibu whenever the wort is above about 80 ibu, simplistically speaking. Software may not predict 0 min additions though so try 20, 15, 10, & 5.


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## Hez (12/9/17)

manticle said:


> Unless you are whirlpool or cube hopping (or own a hop farm), you probably won't get 35 from zero min. That's why the recommendation for 50% at 60, then the remaining 50 from additions from 20 down to 0. You'll get some ibu whenever the wort is above about 80 ibu, simplistically speaking. Software may not predict 0 min additions though so try 20, 15, 10, & 5.


Try and error, isnt It?
Well i have around 70g of chinhook, i Hope it's enough for a miserable 10l batch


What about:

60' 10g Chinook (11.9%AA) = 28.94IBU
15' 10g Chinook (11.9%AA) = 21.54IBU
10' 10g Chinook (11.9%AA) = 10.49IBU
5' 10g Chinook (11.9%AA) = 5.77IBU
---------
TOTAL: 66.7IBU

+
DRYHOP 15g Chinhook
DRYHOP 15g Cascade


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## Hez (13/9/17)

Should I leave ALL hops inside the fermenter or remove the ones added during the boiling before chilling or after chilling?


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## manticle (13/9/17)

At the end of the boil, a significant amount of hop material will drop to the bottom, along with some protein sludge. Leave as much as you can.

Similarly, in the fermenter, most hop material will drop out. Leave that. Otherwise, don't stress.


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## Hez (14/9/17)

manticle said:


> At the end of the boil, a significant amount of hop material will drop to the bottom, along with some protein sludge. Leave as much as you can.
> 
> Similarly, in the fermenter, most hop material will drop out. Leave that. Otherwise, don't stress.


I use one of these for the hops, should I:

1- not use it
2- use it only for the 60' addition 
3- use it for all hops (but the dry ones)
4- remove it before chilling
5- keep it there even in the fermenter

?


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## Hez (18/9/17)

I finally did it! 
I did BIAB, started with 12L of water for the mash, then sparged with 4L over the bag and I added 2L of boiling water to the boil but... I misscalculated the boil-off rate again, so I had to add 1L of cold water to the fermenter to end up with 10L of beer + 1L of trub.

In real-life this two variables were: 
- Grain absorption: 0.73L/kg
- Boil-off rate: 3.56l/hour (I have a 30cm-15L-20$ kettle from Target or Kmart, I don't remember)

I had OG 1069 so this time I had 70% efficiency!!
Last time I had 68% and the previous one I had 65%, am I doing better or it's just the pale malt is more modified and efficient than the wheat? (last one was a witbier and the previous one a hefeweizen)

I made another mistake... I miscalculated the hops, this is what I put:

60' 10g Chinook (11.8%AA) = 27.51IBU
15' 10g Chinook (11.8%AA) = 13.65IBU
10' 10g Chinook (11.8%AA) = 9.97IBU
5' 10g Chinook (11.8%AA) = 5.48IBU
---------
TOTAL: 56.61IBU

So I went a little low, but it will still be more bitter than an english IPA, it will be a not so bold American style IPA.. 
I weighted the cascade hops that I have left and I only have around 13g, so on wednesday (4 days from brewday) I will dry hop 13g of them and 15 or 17 of chinhook (I still have plenty), do you think that'd be enough?

This morning the airlock was bubbling more than twice a second! :O I had never seen it like that! And there was a weird smell... maybe hops, I don't know, I couldn't breathe well this morning, I think I'm half-sick or something...
I'll keep you posted.

BTW: The chilling process in the sink changing the water and putting "esky-blocks" and frozen water bottles was a nightmare as usual. It takes hours and a lot of water, and come and go to check every once in a while... so I looked into it and I bought a cheap stainless steel immersion chiller, some silicone tubes and a pond pump on ebay. Total 48$ shipping included. The idea is to put the esky blocks, frozen water bottles etc and the pump into the "insinkerator" small sink and recirculate the cold water through the chiller (putting some of the very hot one from the beginning into another container for cleaning or flushing the toilet or something). Bad thing is I bought the very cheapest things in ebay from china, so it will take 1 month to arrive.  I will have to make my next beer without it again.


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## Hez (25/9/17)

Yesterday I bottled it:

OG 1069
FG 1014
*Alcohol By Volume: *7.22%
*Apparent Attenuation: *79%
*Calories: *227.6 per 33cl bottle

I carbonated to 2.8 CO2 vol (I like it a little high)

I tasted the beer from the hydrometer and it was bitter and quite light in colour. I was expecting it to be a little darker, but that's ok.. what I didn't get was much hop flavour/aroma... let's see how it is after carbonating and conditioning...
There was almost 2 liters of trub in the fermenter! :S I will have to account for this next time I make a "big beer", I only accounted for 1L
I used a sock for the dry hops and it was floating. I think next time I'll put a couple of steel washers inside or something like that, some weight to keep the hops well submerged.

One thing I've noticed lately is when I open the fermenter I get a very strong vinegar smell. It happened at least with the 3 last beers, I don't really know if it also did with the other previous 2 ones I made, to be honest. 
The beers were perfectly fine without any traces of that smell or any off-flavour but I don't know if that's normal, is it?
It is a plastic fermenter with a wide lid.

For cleaning it I wash it very thoroughly with dishwashing soap (fairy) and a scotch brite at least twice and I use the sanitizing mix as they say in the instructions before fermenting, but I can't get that smell from it... should I use a stronger detergent? which one? I think it fits in my dishwasher machine, do you think that's a good idea?


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## laxation (25/9/17)

Dishwashing liquid isn't great because it can get stuck in the plastic's pores. Can you get your hands on some sodium percarbonate from the home brew shop?

Even napisan (unscented one) would be better than dishwashing stuff.

But if your beer is OK in the end, maybe not the biggest problem!


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## Hez (25/9/17)

laxation said:


> Dishwashing liquid isn't great because it can get stuck in the plastic's pores. Can you get your hands on some sodium percarbonate from the home brew shop?
> 
> Even napisan (unscented one) would be better than dishwashing stuff.
> 
> But if your beer is OK in the end, maybe not the biggest problem!



 The owner of the home brew shop gave me a bag of cleaner when I bought the "initial kit" and I returned it because after some beers I hadn't used it, so I thought there was no point... I'm an idiot. I'll buy a bag next time.

Do you get the vinegar smeel after fermentation? is that normal?


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## laxation (25/9/17)

The only time I had a vinegar smell was when I forgot about a hydrometer sample and left it out for a week!

Give your equipment a good soak in the sodium perc, sanitise and see if it helps. If it's still there - you might be best off getting a new fermenter to avoid the risk of future batches being infected. 
But again, if you're not getting any infection in your brew, I dunno - maybe it's all OK?


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## Hez (25/9/17)

laxation said:


> The only time I had a vinegar smell was when I forgot about a hydrometer sample and left it out for a week!
> 
> Give your equipment a good soak in the sodium perc, sanitise and see if it helps. If it's still there - you might be best off getting a new fermenter to avoid the risk of future batches being infected.
> But again, if you're not getting any infection in your brew, I dunno - maybe it's all OK?


Yep, I will do that. Thanks.

EDIT: when you say "napisan", is it this: http://www.vanishstains.com.au/products/powders/vanish-napisan-oxi-action-powder/
? 
Any particular brand/supermaket? Or do I go back to my trusty old home brew shop with the tail between the legs and ask for the pink stain remover again?  what a jerk I am...


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## nosco (25/9/17)

If you use Napi San or similar get the unscented one. I wouldnt use a Scotch Brite either as it will be putting tiny scratches in the fermenter that can harbour bacteria. Maybe a Chux type cloth or something soft. The good thing about Sodium Perc is that you dont need to scrub or wipe after. Just give it a good rinse.


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## laxation (25/9/17)

Hez said:


> Yep, I will do that. Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: when you say "napisan", is it this: http://www.vanishstains.com.au/products/powders/vanish-napisan-oxi-action-powder/
> ?
> Any particular brand/supermaket? Or do I go back to my trusty old home brew shop with the tail between the legs and ask for the pink stain remover again?  what a jerk I am...


I've never used napisan so I'm not sure which one in particular, but as long as its unscented many others have used it.

I'd be looking for this: http://kegking.com.au/100-pure-sodium-percarbonate-1kg-bag.html


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## manticle (25/9/17)

Vinegar is not good - however co2 can burn/sting the nostrils and people often confuse that for vinegar. Pour off a small sample away from the main batch and smell and taste that. If it's still vinegar, then you have made vinegar instead of beer.


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## Hez (25/9/17)

manticle said:


> Vinegar is not good - however co2 can burn/sting the nostrils and people often confuse that for vinegar. Pour off a small sample away from the main batch and smell and taste that. If it's still vinegar, then you have made vinegar instead of beer.


I drunk the beer from the hydrometer and It didnt taste like vinegar, it tasted like warm flat beer, so I think it's safe.. not very hoppy though, next time I'll dry hop with 6g/L!

Anyway I'll start cleaning that way... Thanks !

In two weeks I'll tell what is like this Chinook-IPA-style beer.


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## Hez (29/9/17)

Yesterday I opened one. It's not spoiled, it is good healthy beer. The bitterness is ok but it has some caramel flavour and the aroma is so wrong... not any hop aroma at all. I get the resin/pine aroma from the chinhook, but... no "hoppyness" 

Let's see next week when it's properly carbonated and conditioned, one day in the fridge, etc. but it doesn't look good.

I'm so disappointed! Second time I try an IPA style beer, second time I have a weird beer.
So far I've made:
1- Sierra Nevada Pale Ale: very good for the first one
2- Sierra Nevada 6.5% Hopped Up "IPA": drinkable but not an IPA at all, no bitterness and no hop aroma whatsoever, the pale ale was "hoppyer"
3- Dry Irish Stout: outstanding!
4- Light/banana hefeweizen/weissbier: Very good. A little bland for my taste, no colour/maltiness at all, but well done and exactly what was to be expected.
5- Belgian Witbier / Blanche: outstanding! best beer I've made so far, almost perfect. I like it more than the commercial versions.
6- Chinook IPA: prfffft (that's a written fart)


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## shacked (29/9/17)

Hez, sorry to hear that your IPA didn't turn out as expected. 

Did you dry hop 30g in 10L of beer? If so, you might need to up that quantity for next time. 5g/L is a good place to start and some folks go 10g/L+!

Also, this might be weird but was your beer super cold? Sometimes I find a super cold beer might have a muted hop character and it tends to come back as the beer warms up a little.


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## Hez (29/9/17)

shacked said:


> Hez, sorry to hear that your IPA didn't turn out as expected.
> 
> Did you dry hop 30g in 10L of beer? If so, you might need to up that quantity for next time. 5g/L is a good place to start and some folks go 10g/L+!
> 
> Also, this might be weird but was your beer super cold? Sometimes I find a super cold beer might have a muted hop character and it tends to come back as the beer warms up a little.



Do you mean while fermenting or when I drank it?
The fermenter was in the bathroom, the coldest part of my house, around 20º average, maybe 22º at some point, still on the range of this yeast.
I put one bottle in the fridge just a couple of hours and then 10' in the freezer because it was still a little warm... I like beer cold and fizzy. Although it's true you loose some aroma/flavour if it's too cold.
I had a real ale (from a manual pump) at the "keg and brew" pub in Surry Hills, and it was very good!

Yes I think I was a cheap with the dry hops. Next time I'll throw a full container in!

Well, let's see how it turns out next week... I shouldn't have done that, but I was worried about the vinegar smell.
Yesterday I went to the Home brew shop and Dave told me exactly the same as you:
- It must have been the weird stuff from the yeast + the CO2. If the beer doesn't taste like vinegar, it's not vinegar.
- Don't f*cking scrub the fermenter!
- He gave me a bag of pink stain remover.


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## hirschb (29/9/17)

I'd scrap that recipe all together. If you want a lot of hoppy aroma, you should dry-hop like crazy. I'd actually do three additions:
30g at 15min. boil
30g in the whirlpool (70-75C)
30g dry hop after fermentation ends or ~10 days


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## homebrewnewb (29/9/17)

im not sure if it scales 'Ez
but i was running 
10g amarillo 7days
10g citra 7days
10g amarillo 3 days
10g citra 3days
for the red dog on a lager. that was for 70 L and the bouquet on the nose was exactly what i was after.


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## nosco (30/9/17)

Dont be stingy on the hops with an IPA. If you go big on the dry hops go big on the late hops too. They go hand in hand imho.


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## Hez (9/10/17)

Hi,
I finally open one after two weeks of conditioning in the bottle and 1 day in the fridge.
The color is nice, the carbonation is ok, good head, little cloudiness, good body, sweetness and bitterness are ok and it's a very drinkable beer, but... It's not even near the hot flavour and aroma an IPA should be! I would change 2 things:
0' big hop addition and leave it there for half an hour or so before chilling.
double or triple dry hop addition!
I could tell about the piney / resin flavour of Chinook, but, only that, no hoppyness. -> BIG FAIL!

Another thing I've realized is it has a little fruty taste. I guess this is due to a too high fermentation temperature, I don't know exactly how much it was, but I brewed it 3 weeks ago in sydney, so it couldn't be more than 24º. Anyway, I've drunk 4 or 5 of them and I didn't have headache or anything, so I think it hasn't got fussel oils...

Let's see how my amber ale turns out... https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/biab-american-amber-ale.96458/page-2#post-1479956

If someone if willing to give this recipe a try, change the hop additions!


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## Dan Pratt (9/10/17)

^ ^ not hoppy enough is your reason for the big fail. 

Can you tell us what you did with the water? I may of missed it but don't recall the thread talking about the water profile for salts and minerals used. 

Secondly, oxygen is the enemy of hop character, without pressure transfer you will always pickup O2 which can easily lower hop presence in your beer.


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## Hez (9/10/17)

Dan Pratt said:


> ^ ^ not hoppy enough is your reason for the big fail.
> 
> Can you tell us what you did with the water? I may of missed it but don't recall the thread talking about the water profile for salts and minerals used.
> 
> Secondly, oxygen is the enemy of hop character, without pressure transfer you will always pickup O2 which can easily lower hop presence in your beer.



I didnt do anything to the Water... I should start to look into the pH, i Guess... I just used Sydney tap water!
Any advice?
What minerals /salts do you use? Where do I start?

P.S. This is the water report of my area (Mosman (Sydney suburb) uses Ryde water supply) http://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/g...ments/document/zgrf/mdq0/~edisp/dd_044731.pdf

Well, my idea of an ipa is that it should be hoppy and this one isn't... Maybe not a big fail, as it's still a pleasant beer to drink, but it's not what I wanted to do. I have to study and practice more!

PS. pressure transfer???!?!??


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## manticle (9/10/17)

For accentuating hop profile, calcium sulphate/gypsum is the salt you want to look at.

Personally though, while I really like chinook, you won't (in my experience) get much fruitiness or character many associate with hoppiness. It's great for bringing resin to balance fruir - you want fruit to balance the pine.

Chinook/cascade, chinook/amarillo, chinook/citra or even chinook/styrian goldings. Combinations and permutations of the above work well.


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## Hez (9/10/17)

manticle said:


> For accentuating hop profile, calcium sulphate/gypsum is the salt you want to look at.
> 
> Personally though, while I really like chinook, you won't (in my experience) get much fruitiness or character many associate with hoppiness. It's great for bringing resin to balance fruir - you want fruit to balance the pine.
> 
> Chinook/cascade, chinook/amarillo, chinook/citra or even chinook/styrian goldings. Combinations and permutations of the above work well.


I put some cascade, but not nearly enough. I didnt have any more left... 
Note for future me: don't be so cheap with the hops

Gypsum!
One thing more to read about
Thanks!


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## Hez (10/10/17)

@manticle @Dan Pratt 

Lots to read about water:
https://byo.com/bock/item/1478-the-elements-of-brewing-water
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/balancing-the-malts-and-minerals
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/treating_homebrew_water
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3...h-ph/using-salts-for-brewing-water-adjustment
http://brulosophy.com/2016/08/08/water-chemistry-pt-5-boil-ph-in-an-ipa-exbeeriment-results/
http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/18/a-pragmatic-approach-to-water-manipulation/


This is my water profile: (http://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/g...ments/document/zgrf/mdq0/~edisp/dd_044731.pdf):
- PH 7.8-8.0 --> a little bit alkaline / basic
-Total dissolved solids: 100-136, so it's quite soft

About the other components, I don't think I understand this report...

30-39 Calcium hardness
... or 11.4 - 17.3 Calcium ???
18-27 Magnesium
???? Bicarbonate (HCO3-1)
7.4-8.8 Sulfate (SO4-2)
12.3 - 19.0 Sodium (Na+1)
25-35.5 Chloride (Cl-1)

For an Indian Pale Ale, I should try to mimic the Burton-on-Trent water which according to this article (http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/balancing-the-malts-and-minerals) it has:
352 Calcium (Ca+2)
24 Magnesium (Mg+2)
320 Bicarbonate (HCO3-1)
820 Sulfate (SO4-2)
44 Sodium (Na+1)
16 Chloride (Cl-1)

They don't match at all! But the Calcium, Sulfate and Bicarbonate (which I'm still to identify in the water report) are in a way different range!

So for making a proper IPA what should you do about the water? Which is the proper PH ? 5.4? if my PH isn't right what should I do to change it? Modify the grain proportion? add acid malt? use kilos of gypsum? phosphoric acid? is that even legal in Australia? What's the proper way to calculate all of this?

What do you think of this kit:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Homebrew...hash=item1ece942440:m:mQGXEo0uCqYJLo2RtMcw1Lw

I think this deserves a full post!

Weird idea: Dissolve the priming sugar in water and infusion some hops, like a very sweet hop-tea (more like a hop-syrup ), filter the hops and use a syringe to prime the bottles with it! EXTRA HOPS DIRECTLY INTO THE BOTTLE! jejejeje


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## homebrewnewb (10/10/17)

So many questions Hez.
All relevant though, to a point. Yes there should be another post, and you can probably sift the forums for all the answers.

What should you do about the water?
At an extreme, buy or make distilled / reverse osmosis water and build the profile from scratch.
Adding the ppm per mineral/compound you need. To get the profile you need.

getting the correct pH for the mash, i think is around 5.4 is important too, you can do a few things but kilos of gypsum is not one of those things you should try. you can use acid and phosphoric is easily available. and you too can use acid malt.
if i were you i would try on 100mL of distilled water, whatever you want maybe acid is easiest, dose the water and see what you results are, then scale them out.

you would need to do a proper check that with preboiled wort first though, just to see how it pans out.

proper pH for finished beer (IPA) de-gassed mind you, should be 4.0 or even lower, around 3.5.

for now, tick it up to learning, water chemistry may arguably be more important than controlling fermentation temperature.

good water makes good beer is a good rule of thumb.
i wouldn't worry about the ebay thing at the moment.
a good pH meter might be a better investment.

and again, going back to the root of the issue, no real hoppines, you have make sure to keep O2 out of the finished product too.


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## Hez (10/10/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> So many questions Hez.
> All relevant though, to a point. Yes there should be another post, and you can probably sift the forums for all the answers.
> 
> What should you do about the water?
> ...



Quote from this article: http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/18/a-pragmatic-approach-to-water-manipulation/
"I tend to view water manipulation as more of a final step in a homebrewer’s development where already tasty recipes are taken to the next level by honing in on a specific water profile. Water is a polishing agent and you can’t polish a turd."
First of all I have to be able to make something worth honing and polishing. But I'll keep on studying the water chemistry. I will put another post when I know more!



homebrewnewb said:


> and again, going back to the root of the issue, no real hoppines, you have make sure to keep O2 out of the finished product too.



Tell me if I have it right, please...

1- After the boil you have to try not to expose the beer to the air in order to avoid contamination (bacterias, fungus, wild yeast...): I cover my kettle with the lid when the amount of steam/vapor starts to reduce and when it's at pitching temp I pour it quickly (without strainers or anything else) from the kettle to the fermenter.

2- Before pitching the yeast, you have to oxigenate as much as you can the wort. I don't have an oxygen tank, so the cheap alternative is to shake the fermenter to try to "mix some air inside" the wort. Another cheap alternative is to put an aquarium air pump. Both ways (shaking and pumping air) will have the same risk in terms of possible contamination, wont them?

3- While fermenting, the airlock allows the air to escape from the inside of the fermenter. This will be the air captured when closing the fermenter + the C02 the yeast produces. The CO2 is heavier than air, so at some point all the "air" inside the fermenter will be almost 100% C02. For dry hopping you need to open the fermenter and drop your hop sock inside. While you do that, you might capture some air, but again, the co2 has a high density, so this cheeky air is not likely to reach the beer itself, anyway, the fermentation is still going on, so new C02 will expel the unwanted air from our VIP CO2 environment.

4- After fermenting I bottle using a "wand" (springloaded valve ) directly connected to the fermenter, and once the bottle is full I cap it right away. The air captured inside the bottle will remain closer to the cap due to the same old tune.. new CO2... higher density bla bla as well as the air that goes inside the fermenter when you remove the airlock for filling the bottles.

I don't do bulk priming for these reasons:
- I don't have another container with a tap/spigot than the fermenter and I don't want to buy another thing I have to clean, sanitize and store which I'll have to dump in less than a year (because I'll be leaving Australia).
- I only brew 10L batches. Priming 30 bottles is not that bad. And my modified syringe for calculating different amounts of priming sugar method works like a treat.
- I don't beleive having the turb inside the fermenter affects the beer, I agree with Larry (https://beernbbqbylarry.com/2017/04/29/why-i-dont-rack-to-a-secondary-fermenter/)
-> Transfering the beer from the fermenter to another container would expose it to air and thus to oxidation and possible contamination.

I have pretty clear the causes of the non-hoppiness in this beer:
1st main cause: I put less than half the hops I should have used for dry hopping
2nd main cause: I didn't do a proper 0' addition
other causes that might affect: fermentation temperature, PH, minerals, water filtration, etc. etc. etc.

All in all, I don't think I had a lot of oxydation due to my process. The problem is my recipe was wrong and I was a cheap with the hops.

Thank you!


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## Dan Pratt (10/10/17)

From what i have just read you are heading on the right track....researching information. Each batch, try to apply some of that information to brew better beer.

The water is a very important part of brewing and a quite complex part but within time it will seem standard to make adjustments to suit the beer you are trying to make. The water you do have is very soft, great for lagers which after the IPA adventures you will find your way to them as a valued style to brew. 

To provide some simple input for your IPA water, don't go overboard with the Burton on Trent you can achieve the desired outcome with less ppm targeting sulphate at 250-300ppm and your chloride at 50-70ppm. The pH of the beer at 25c should be around 5.4. Mash temperature also will be a key part to getting those hops to pull through, something to consider.

So in all honesty to get that hoppy character, you do need some attention on other brewing skills but you do also need alot more late hops, hop-stands, whirlpooling and dry hopping and like much like Manticle said, pair it with another hop or run with a much fruitier hop like Amarillo or Citra or Simcoe.


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## Hez (10/10/17)

Dan Pratt said:


> From what i have just read you are heading on the right track....researching information. Each batch, try to apply some of that information to brew better beer.
> 
> The water is a very important part of brewing and a quite complex part but within time it will seem standard to make adjustments to suit the beer you are trying to make. The water you do have is very soft, great for lagers which after the IPA adventures you will find your way to them as a valued style to brew.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

With all your advices my next IPA will be amazing! 

I'm drinking one right now and it's quite good... Piney! The piney-ipa! Jejeje


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## manticle (10/10/17)

I encourage you to read and research water chemistry so you understand it. However, as a very simple fix for your next ipa or even apa , use some cascade or amarillo or citra in higher amounts for later hopping, up your dry hops and just put a small level teaspoon of calcium sulphate/gypsum into the kettle. Think of it as seasoning a soup.

Mash pH, calcium levels, etc can all come later.


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## Hez (10/10/17)

manticle said:


> I encourage you to read and research water chemistry so you understand it. However, as a very simple fix for your next ipa or even apa , use some cascade or amarillo or citra in higher amounts for later hopping, up your dry hops and just put a small level teaspoon of calcium sulphate/gypsum into the kettle. Think of it as seasoning a soup.
> 
> Mash pH, calcium levels, etc can all come later.


Thank you! I currently have a 100% citra american amber ale which turned into an english brown ale with IPA and Chinook on the go, but my next IPA attempt will be citra/Amarillo


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## manticle (10/10/17)

Forgot you do half batches so 1/2 level tsp - you can add but you can't take away


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## Hez (13/10/17)

I already have the recipe for my next IPA. It's not my own, so no questions really...* I simply adapted the most accepted recipe for this clone, the Zombie Dust:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/5916/zombie-dust-clone-all-grain
to what I have and what I like and I wanted to share it with you.

These are the only changes I've made:
- incorporated @manticle 's magic (1/2 teaspoon gypsum)
- increased the late 1' hop addition (0' doesn't work in the calculator)
- increased the dry hops (the original recipe asked for 3.8g/L, I've amost doubled it, to me that doesn't work)
- increased the carbonation because I like it that way

I've already bought a bigger 25L pot (boiling kettle)! It will arrive hopefully next week, but I'm not going to brew this one until I try the Amber/Brown Ale I brewed last week (I'll bottle it this weekend, so at least 2 weeks more). I still want to brew a hefeweizen-bavarian-style (with more colour/flavour), a REAL amber ale (the one I've made is going to be too roasted/brown, I think :S) and a belgian/french saison (i'll probably do that one in summer, I still have to study a little more about that style, and I think I've never tried one! :S ) so I don't know the order yet... we'll see.

*Well yes, I have a question: what about the mash temp? Is 67º ok? and 10' mash out or no mash out?
IPAs aren't suposed to be very dry and being a bigger beer if I raise too much the temp I won't have enough conversion, will I ?


*ZOMBIE DUST CLONE - AMERICAN IPA - BIAB - 10L BATCH*

*GRAIN:*
2860g 81.0% Pale 2-Row
280g 7.9% Munich - Light 10L
130g 3.6% CaraPils 1.8L
130g 3.6% Crystal 60L 
130g 3.6% Melanoidin 25L
TOTAL: 3530g

68% efficiency
SRM: 8.84
Preboil OG: 1.039
OG: 1.061
FG: 1.017
ABV: 5.75%

*BOIL:*
60' 7.4g Gypsum/Calcium Sulphate (1/2 teaspoon)
60' 8g Citra -> 25.75 IBU
15' 10g Citra -> 15.97 IBU
10' 1/2 tablet Deltafloc
10' 10g Citra -> 11.67 IBU
5' 10g Citra -> 6.42 IBU
1' 27g Citra -> 3.75 IBU (steep 30' before chilling)
DRY HOP: Citra 60g

IBU: 63.55
TOTAL HOPS: 125g !!!!

*MASH:*
80' 67ºC <- 16.30L (TOTAL WATER 21.3L - SPARGE 5L)
10' 75.5ºC
sparge 75.5ºC <- 5L

*FERMENT:*
Fermentis / Safale - English Ale Yeast S-04
15º - 23.8ºC (pitch @20º)

*CARBONATION:*
3.0 CO2 Vol.
2.9g Table sugar

*WATER CALCULATIONS:*
Batch: 10L
Grain absorption: 0.73L/kg
Boil-off rate: 4.48l/hour
Trub: 2L
Kettle size: 25L

TOTAL WATER NEEDED 21.30L
STRIKE WATER TEMP 68ºC
TOTAL MASH VOLUME 23.65L
PREBOIL WORT 18.72L
POSTBOIL WORT 12.00L


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## Hez (23/10/17)

Hi I plan on brewing the Zombie Dust clone this weekend. I've been studying a little bit more about water chemistry. If you're interested I posted into and old post of this forum:
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/sydney-water-profile.55767/#post-1482857

Minerals/salts summary:
Chalk/Calcium Carbonate CaCO3: 2g
Baking Soda/Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3: 5g
Gypsum/Calcium Carbonate CaSO4: 10g
Epsom Salt/Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4: 1g
Canning Salt/Not Iodized Table Salt NaCl: 2g

PH adjust:
2g Citric/Tartaric Acid
or substitute 100g of the pale malt for acidulated malt (2.8% of the total grain bill)


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## manticle (23/10/17)

Gypsum is calcium sulphate. I recommend you leave both sodium bicarbonate and chalk out and just go calcium sulphate and calcium chloride with more sulphate than chloride.


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## Hez (23/10/17)

manticle said:


> Gypsum is calcium sulphate. I recommend you leave both sodium bicarbonate and chalk out and just go calcium sulphate and calcium chloride with more sulphate than chloride.


Yes, sorry, it was a typo.
I think I agree with you on that, I don't see the point on trying to emulate Burton on Trent water.. I don't think that's what they do to brew this particular beer anyway...

So, only gypsum/calcium sulphate but I don't find the calcium chloride.. would it be advisable to put the non iodized table salt?

About the acid which one do you recommend citric, tartaric, malic or acidulated malt?
Thank you!


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## manticle (23/10/17)

Phosphoric, lactic or acidulated. Go easy on sodium/table salt. A pinch at most.


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## Hez (24/10/17)

@manticle, It's not that I don't trust you is that I have interest and I want to know it by myself. You were almost spot on! Half a teaspoon of gypsum is pretty much it! A teaspoon of gypsum in grams (https://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight) is 7.4g

I looked around and it seems this is the more accepted easy-water-calculator:
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

According to this one, I could increase a little the Gypsum and still be on the range and I could add some non-iodized-table-salt (NaCl) but... well, let's see how this one goes and maybe next time I do the exact same recipe I try changing one more thing...

About the melanoidin malt, I've read it's "like munich on esteroids", it's more acidic than munich, so I set it into the water calculator spreadsheet as "roasted/toasted", so with the gypsum and without the other alkaline/basic salts (chalk and sodium bicarbonate) it looks my PH will be exactly in the middle of the range: 5.48 (recommended 5.4-5.6), so... I don't need acidulated malts!

I think I'm happy with that, I'll do the shopping later! jejeje 
Thank you very much!



These are all the water chemistry calculations:

Starting water profile:
Ca+2 14.35 mg/L
Mg+2 22.50 mg/L
Na+ 15.65 mg/L
Cl- 30.25 mg/L
SO4-2 8.10 mg/L
HCO3- 41.5 mg/L

16.3L Mash Vol.
5.0L Sparge Vol.
2860g Base 2Row
280g Base Munich
130g 60.0L Crystal Malt 
130g 1.8L Crystal Malt
130g Roasted/Toasted (melanoiden)

Adjust Mash pH DOWN:
Mash:
9.0g Gypsum/Calcium Sulphate/CaSO4 
0g Calcium Chloride/CaCl2
0g Epsom Salt/MgSO4
Sparge:
2.8g Gypsum/Calcium Sulphate/CaSO4 
0g Calcium Chloride/CaCl2
0g Epsom Salt/MgSO4

Adjust Mash pH UP:
0g Slaked Lime/ Ca(OH)2
0g Baking Soda/ NaHC03
0g Chalk/ CaCO3

Ca: 140 <- Palmer's recommended range 50-150
Mg: 23 <- Palmer's recommended range 10-30
Na: 16 <- Palmer's recommended range 0-150
Cl: 30 <- Palmer's recommended range 0-250
SO4: 316 <- Palmer's recommended range 50-350
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0,10 <- Below .77, May enhance bitterness

Alkalinity (CaCO3): 34
RA: -79
Estimated pH (room temp): 5,48 <- Palmer's recommended range 5.4-5.6


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## Hez (27/10/17)

I'm going to brew tomorrow the "Zombie Dust Hopped Up Clone"...

I've bought MORE hops and changed the hop schedule.
The calculator doesn't work with 0' additions, that's why the last one is marked as 1', but I plan to do as @Thefatdoghead told me in my last Amber Ale, steep for 30' when the wort is around 80ºC before chilling.
I've increased substantially the amount of hops at 0' and the dry hops. I don't know why, maybe it's the water, or the size of my batch, but every time I've tried to do a hoppy beer I've failed, I hope this time with @manticle help for chemistry and the massive 0' hop addition and dry hop it works out. I'm still learning... do you think it is too much?

Remember my batch is 10L + 2L trub.

HOP SCHEDULE:

60' 6g Citra 13.8% AA -> 20.15IBU

15' 10g Citra 13.8% AA -> 16.66IBU

10' 1/2 tablet Deltafloc
10' 10g Citra 13.8% AA -> 12.18IBU

5' 16g Citra 13.8% AA -> 10.71IBU

1' 45g Citra 13.8% AA -> 6.52IBU (steep 30' @80ºC before chilling)

DRY HOP: Citra 80g

IBU: 66.22
TOTAL HOPS: 167g !!!!


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## Hez (31/10/17)

I finally brewed it on saturday.

My new bigger kettle (25L) is a major improvement! Now I have more space for the grain, and I don't have to keep adding water to the boil. But the boiloff calculation I made wasn't right. With my old kettle (15L) it was around 4.2L/h so being 2cm wider in diameter I calculated it would be 4.4L/h, but it turned out to be 4.1L/h. Maybe it is like that because the air humidity or because using more water on a bigger kettle with the same burner results in a weaker boiling? I don't know.

I also calculated wrong the grain absorption. Previously it was around 0.7L/kg of grain and this time it was 0.37L/kg. I increased the amount of sparge water from 3L to 5L, maybe this is one consecuence, the sparge water washes all the sugar and the water "stuck" to the grain diminishes. 

Even with the extra water (from boiling and grain absorption) the OG was 1063 instead of the calculated 1061, meaning I've improved my efficiency 2% from a very shitty 68% to a just shitty 70%. I wonder what would happen if I increase the sparge water to 7L, will I have 72%?
The minimum amount of water I need for the mash (so the grain if fully submerged with my bag/kettle setup) is around 13L and my initial water is around 20-21L (depending on the recipe), that leaves a maximum sparge water of 7-8L (40%). I've seen people doing sparge with more water than the initial mash water, so I'll try that next time (use 40% of the total water to sparge).

This is also the first time I've done any water adjustements affecting the PH so I guess this must have helped too.

After two failed attempts of making a hoppy IPA (they were ok but not hoppy) I decided I wasn't going to be a cheap with the hops again. My homebrew supplier gave me a discount on the second container of hops so I went crazy. The 45g 0' addition (remember I do 10L batches) left a very strong scent. I will do a 80g dry hop using two hop-socks and some marbles to keep them well submerged. This IS going to be a really hoppy beer por mis cojones!

About the fermentation... :S after 1 day the airlock was bubbling a lot. They say US-04 is not as active as US-05 but I don't think so. 
I don't have a fermentation fridge, so I use the t-shirt method. It worked nice with my last amber ale but yesterday it was so hot! It reached a maximum of 24º for a couple of hours, eventhough I used the pond pump to recirculate the water and I put some ice and an esky block to cool down the water a little. I would say it is at 20º most of the time with little periods of 22º and an isolated maximum of 24º yesterday. The temperature is going to go down a little for the rest of the week, so I think I will be able to keep it under 20º until the fermentation is done, but I had bad luck yesterday. 
According to safale specifications US-04 range is 12-25º but recommended 15-20º, so either way, the yeast has been "on its range" and I should have a healthy beer.. BUT...
I hope I won't have too much "fruityness".
I'll keep track here in case someone is interested.


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## Dan Pratt (31/10/17)

just a couple of things to add:

That higher fermentation temp will throw esters into the beer, which you may be able to dull somewhat with the dry hop of citra - tip: get temperature control fridge for femrntation!!

Speaking of dry hop - don't use socks, just throw them all into the top of the beer, let them get 100% coverage and contact with the wort. they will expand and sit at the surface for a day or two and then start to drop into solution. before you package, make space in the kitchen fridge, cold crash the beer to 4c overnight and all the hops and yeast will drop out before you package the beer.

Don't get hung up on efficiency, find what your system does and target that amount each brew. if you really need to improve, increasing the mash out time to 30mins or higher tends to increase % because the wort can drain from the mash much easier.


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## Hez (31/10/17)

Dan Pratt said:


> just a couple of things to add:
> 
> That higher fermentation temp will throw esters into the beer, which you may be able to dull somewhat with the dry hop of citra - tip: get temperature control fridge for femrntation!!
> 
> ...



I'd really really like to get a fridge for fermentation. I've already found the controler and everything, but my condition/situation in here is complicated. My company sent me here to Sydney for a project (I'm from Spain). I was suposed to go back this month but they just extended my stance until next year. I never wanted to buy big/expensive equipment here because I don't think I will be able to carry it back home when I leave and also I don't own a car here (I have a nice one in Spain  ) ! But, ok, a second hand mini fridge for my 15L fermenter wouldn't be so expensive, I could simply give it away when I leave and I can always ask a friend for the car, but... my girlfriend is totally against it. I'll try to convince her harder.
So I guess until autumn I will experiment with wheat beers and saisons! In fact, I've been studying a little, and I'm preparing a new post for a saison.

About the dry hop, my fridge is really small and is always full, I don't know if I'll be able to do that. If I don't, what would happen with the hops? will they go to the bottles or will they settle down with the rest of the trub (I don't have a secondary fermenter, I bottle directly from the "primary", or in my case THE fermenter)?

About the efficiency, is not like I'm crazy about it... I have had 68% until this one! it's just one more thing. I want to improve my brewing technique, that's all. Thank you for the tip, I'll try that next time. Once I have a good technique I will have a consistent efficiency (better or worse) and that's it, I guess. I'm not planning on making weird stuff just for 1% more efficiency, grain is cheap when you do 10L batches.

Thank you very much, @Dan Pratt.


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## Hez (30/11/17)

I forgot to add a message here in case someone wanted to know how did it go my version of the zombie dust.
I waited 3 weeks to open one, and now, 1 month after brew day, I can tell the beer is good, bitterness/abv is balanced, good taste, not too sweet, very drinkable, but again... NOT HOPPY ENOUGH! even with such a ridiculous amount of hops... it's not only me who says so, everyone who has tasted it agrees.

It turned out a little bit fruity and the alcohol is very evident.
I think the fermentation was too hot.
Even using two shocks for the hops wasn't enough. I'm also starting to think that 4 days is not enough for the dry hops.

I FOUND A FRIDGE!!! And I bought an inkbird itc-308 temp controller, so... I plan on brewing an American Pale Ale "hop bomb" (when my saison is ready to drink). Now I can "cold crash", so I won't use hop-shocks for dryhopping this time... let's see if that was the problem. 
I'll also use one hop shock for each hop addition during the boil to avoid having all of them stacked up into the hop spider.
I'll put a post once I've studied and have something to start.


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## Hez (30/11/17)




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## Garfield (30/11/17)

Your're brave using a headmaster schooner for a beer carbonated to 2.8 CO2 volumes. Hop snowcones sound appealing though.

I love chinook in an IPA so well done to you for working through your process. Brew on, young padawan


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## Hez (30/11/17)

Garfield said:


> Your're brave using a headmaster schooner for a beer carbonated to 2.8 CO2 volumes. Hop snowcones sound appealing though.
> 
> I love chinook in an IPA so well done to you for working through your process. Brew on, young padawan


I stole it by accident...
Thanks! But that's not the Chinook one, that's the citra one.
Next time I'll do citra + amarillo


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