# The Cheese Thread



## fixa (3/6/07)

Tell us about your homemade cheeses...
after talking to andrewQLD, i'm all keen to give it a go, just gotta get some time now.
How do you make yours? what has and hasn't worked for you?

and most importantly, is cheese possibly the best food ever?


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## jpiwek (3/6/07)

Brie and Camenbert are really easy to make. If you have access to fresh cows or goats milk even better. I am a real beginner at it but I made some a while back that wernt that bad. Everyone around here are a bit cheesed out now but Ill knock up another batch soon.

once you have the basics like spores(I think thats what there called) rennet (the stuff that makes the milk set) and a few pcv pipes to put the curds into (about10cm round and15 high) your off! you just cut the curds into cubes, put them into the pvc (or cheese molds) flip them every few hours, next day soak them in brine(salty water) put a spec of white moud spore powder in it(this gives the cheese that white fuzzy velvet like coating on the out side) store at cellar temp. (13-16c.) for 4-6 weeks and enjoy.

I also experimented with blue linnens and got some pretty funky fromage  but it was all really edible (if you go for reall pundgent type cheese) It dosnt cost allot. Your best off checking out Cheeselinks for all you need to know and get more info but if your into it its very rewarding much like homebrewing.-


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## AndrewQLD (3/6/07)

Fixa, cheese IS the best food in the world. Here is a rundown of the process I use to make Stilton cheese.

The Recipe
4.5lt full cream milk
1/8 tsp farmhouse culture available here Cheeselinks
OR 1/2 cup buttermilk
1 tbls of stilton cheese for the mold culture or a blue mold culture available from the above link
1.5ml of liquid Rennet
2 tsp salt, non iodised (rock salt or sea salt is best)

Warm your milk in a S/S pot or plastic bucket to 31c, I usually put the pot in a sink of warm water to keep it at 31c, stir in the farmhouse culture OR buttermilk, make a paste of the stilton cheese with a little of the milk and stir this into your 4.5l milk until it is dissolved.
Dissolve 1.5ml of the rennet in 50 ml of boiled cooled water and then stir this into the milk, you must do this quickly as the Rennet will cause the milk to set fairly soon.
Keep the milk at 31c for the next 90 minutes and do not disturb the milk, it is important to keep this temperature constant throught the "cooking" period.

At the end of the 90 minutes your curd will have formed and the milk will be a soft solid mass. If you push down on the top of the curd and it splits you will know it is time to cut the curd. Cut the curd into small 1cm cubes by slicing with a long knife that reaches to the bottom of the pot.



Stir gently and rest for 30 minutes all the time keeping the temp at 31c, remove some of the whey at the end of the 30 minute rest and stir gently again and rest for 30 minutes and remove some more of the whey.


Pour the curds into a cheese cloth lined collander and drain for 10 minutes then bundle and hang the curds over a bucket for 1/2 an hour to extract more of the whey.


next place the curd bundle on a draining board and put a 5 kilo weight on top for 2 hours, this will extract more of the whey.
next we need to salt and crumble the curds. open the bundle and break up the curd into small pieces about the size of a sultana sprinkle in the salt and stir gently.
pack the curds evenly into 2x 3 1/2 inch diameter molds and press for 12 hours with 5 kilo weights turning every couple of hours.


and here is what the should look like after the 12 hour pressing



Put the cheese onto cheese mats to allow them to drain some more. I keep my cheeses in a decore style container in a spare fridge at around 9c, leave the lid open a crack to regulate the humidity and keep turning the cheese on a daily basis. After about 10 days you will see the cheese is starting to mold up 


and after about 4 weeks it is time to needle the cheese to allow the blue mold to get inside the cheese, here is mine at 4 weeks just before I needled it,


and at 6 weeks I am eating it along with home made Salsa and home grown pickled vegetables 


This is a fairly simplified approach to making a Stilton cheese but the results are very nice.


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## Ross (3/6/07)

Great post Andrew  I'm sorely tempted to give it a go... :super: 

cheers Ross


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## Tony (3/6/07)

oh god that looks great.

My wife will go postal when i tell her i am going to make cheese

hehe

cheers


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## kirem (3/6/07)

great post andrew.

keep it clean and have good temperature control and your half way there.


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## jpiwek (3/6/07)

AndrewQLD that was excellent Im going to give your method a go next.

And Stilton is my favorite of all cheeses.


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## Pumpy (3/6/07)

Love the post Andrew .

I am going to have a go at that 

Home made Beer, Bread, Cheese , Pickles and Salsa .who could want anything more in life .

Pumpy


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## Kai (3/6/07)

Gaargh!

Must...not... buy...cheese...


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## mobrien (3/6/07)

This is justa little freaky - yesterday morning I was trolling the net looking at cheese making, thinking that while I lager there must be something I can do with a temp controlled fridge....

you guys suck. Now I'm going to buy a cheese making kit. I'm going to be in so much trouble.

M


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## capretta (3/6/07)

thats awesome. if my mrs thought fermenting homebrew smelt, she is in for a shock!!


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## Pumpy (3/6/07)

What is it with some brewers a desire to create food and drink with microbiological creatures ? :blink: 

pumpy


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## Duff (3/6/07)

Brilliant Andrew, you've just made it a whole lot easier for me :super: 

Cheers.


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## Pumpy (3/6/07)

Yeah but look at the fraternity you have to hang around and the gear you have to wear Duff when stretching cheese .

Pumpy :unsure:


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## animal_man (3/6/07)

jeeze, every day on this forum i find myself more and more fascinated with food and drinks!

beer, beef jerky, cheese, what will be next?


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## bonj (3/6/07)

I've been looking at the kits on cheeselinks for a while. One of these days I'm going to bite the bullet and make some brie/camembert...


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## fixa (3/6/07)

fantastic post andrew!!!!


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## PostModern (3/6/07)

Is there any risk making cheese close to beer? Can you make cheese in your fermentation fridge? 

I've read a bit about making sauerkraut and that the organisms used in making kraut will spoil beer and very quickly and at a good distance. ie, don't make kraut in the same house as beer. Is there any risk of infecting beer if you were to age a cheese at the same time as fermenting an ale in s fridge set to 14C?


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## Pumpy (3/6/07)

PostModern said:


> Is there any risk making cheese close to beer? Can you make cheese in your fermentation fridge?
> 
> I've read a bit about making sauerkraut and that the organisms used in making kraut will spoil beer and very quickly and at a good distance. ie, don't make kraut in the same house as beer. Is there any risk of infecting beer if you were to age a cheese at the same time as fermenting an ale in s fridge set to 14C?




What like it may turn the Camembert blue , Bitter !!!!

:unsure: 

Pumpy


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## goatherder (3/6/07)

Yep, great post Andrew, sums up the process perfectly.

I made a couple of Stiltons shortly after you first posted your results in the jerky thread. I've pretty much used the process you detailed and got excellent results. Except when I tried to age a non-blue cheese near a blue cheese - that doesn't work so well.

PoMo - I age my cheeses in a sealed container in my ferment fridges - no problems thus far with the beers.


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## jpiwek (3/6/07)

animal_man said:


> jeeze, every day on this forum i find myself more and more fascinated with food and drinks!
> 
> beer, beef jerky, cheese, what will be next?



Yeah me too, Ive only just discovered AHB but there really is a wealth of info here. 

"what will be next?"

How bout honey? thats the next one Im looking into. Cant wait for the day I make my first batch of mead from my own hives


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## T.D. (4/6/07)

Can anyone who makes brie or camembert post a bit of a run down on how you make it? I could get seriously obsessed with cheese making I reckon! :lol: 

This thread rocks! :beerbang:


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## braufrau (4/6/07)

Wow! That's fantastic.

My 3 year old loves blue cheese.

What do you use for followers in the press?
Can you make hard cheese with a press like that?

Another thing to do when I down shift.


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## AndrewQLD (4/6/07)

braufrau said:


> Wow! That's fantastic.
> 
> My 3 year old loves blue cheese.
> 
> ...



Braufrau, your 3 year has seriously good taste :lol: , my followers are made from 1" thick oak boards that I cut to size, the cheese goes into the form and then the follower and then a jam jar on top followed by the press board and the weights.
Yes I have made cheddar with this press I have had 30 kilos of weight on it for my cheddar.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Airgead (4/6/07)

Great thread folks.

I've been making soft cheeses (farm style) and yoghurt for a couple of years now since my wife was diagnosed as lactose intolerant. I've got lactose free yoghurt, farm cheese and ricotta down pretty well now. I'll try my hand at hard cheese next.

The main trick I learned is that the curd sets much better if you use non-homogenised milk rather than the regular stuff. You can usually find it in your local hippy food shop. Or the hippy section of Coles.

Making it lactose free and having it taste like it is supposed to is tricky. If anyone else wants the details let me know and I'll post what I know.

Cheers
Dave


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## braufrau (4/6/07)

Airgead said:


> The main trick I learned is that the curd sets much better if you use non-homogenised milk rather than the regular stuff. You can usually find it in your local hippy food shop. Or the hippy section of Coles.



yeah. In Adelaide look out for BD Farms milk.
Even if you don't make cheese it tastes fantastic one your cornflakes.


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## Tyred (4/6/07)

> Making it lactose free and having it taste like it is supposed to is tricky. If anyone else wants the details let me know and I'll post what I know.



Dave,I'm interested. Both my wife and I are lactose intolerant. 

Strangely enough, when I brought up the topic of making cheese she said "You'll have to get another fridge then". I only have to work out where to put it when I get one.


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## Kai (4/6/07)

PostModern said:


> Is there any risk making cheese close to beer? Can you make cheese in your fermentation fridge?
> 
> I've read a bit about making sauerkraut and that the organisms used in making kraut will spoil beer and very quickly and at a good distance. ie, don't make kraut in the same house as beer. Is there any risk of infecting beer if you were to age a cheese at the same time as fermenting an ale in s fridge set to 14C?



The lactic acid bacteria in the cheese might pose a risk, but I think you'd have to have some pretty sloppy practices for it to be an issue.

I would keep my cheesemaking equipment separate from my beer though.


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## albrews (4/6/07)

fixa said:


> fantastic post andrew!!!!



hi, an interesting short video on cheesemaking is on the site www.buildabbq.com

cheers, alan


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## Duff (4/6/07)

albrews said:


> hi, an interesting short video on cheesemaking is on the site www.buildabbq.com
> 
> cheers, alan



Don't worry. As soon as Tangent tries his hand at it, there'll be one on YouTube


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## Pumpy (4/6/07)

Dont get mixed up cheese making with brewing or you may end up with 

Stilton Brew

Tasty Porter 

Brie Bock 

Irish Red Cheddar 


Pumpy :unsure:


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## Airgead (5/6/07)

Tyred said:


> Dave,I'm interested. Both my wife and I are lactose intolerant.
> 
> Strangely enough, when I brought up the topic of making cheese she said "You'll have to get another fridge then". I only have to work out where to put it when I get one.



Ok.. lactose free cheese - 

Hard cheeses are usually OK. As long as they are aged. Most of the lactose in cheese comes out in the whey. The rest is eaten by the lactic bacteria to make that nice sharp aged cheese taste. The problem is with hard cheeses that aren't aged or soft cheeses that still contain whey.

To do this you will need some lactase enzyme. The same stuff as in the lacteze tablets that the lactose intolerant carry around with them but in liquid form. We buy it at the local chemist but a lot of hippy food shops have it too. The enzyme takes the lactose and converts it to galactose which the lactose intolerant can tolerate. It takes about 24 hours to work. 

The obvious thing to do is add the enzyme, wait 24 hours then make the cheese. the problem is that stage 1 of the cheesemaking is usually to inoculate with a lactic culture to give the cheesemilk the right flavour and reduce the PH. Now these cultures are good at producing lactic acid by eating lactose. Not galactose. If you convert all the lactose the finished cheese doesn't have enough flavour and the lack of acid means it goes off very quickly. 

You also can't wait till the curd is going into the moulds as by then its too solid and you can't stir the enzyme in properly without destroying the texture of the curd. In a cooked curd cheese you can't even add it when you add the rennet as it won't have enough time to work before you cook it and denature the enzyme.

You need to find a point where the enzyme has enough time to work but doesn't break up the curd or cause the milk to sit too long with the culture in there or it will clabber before you can add the rennet.

After much experimentation I have found that the best result occurs when you add the culture and enzyme together. The culture has enough lactose to eat and the enzyme has just enough time to work while the milk cultures and the rennet works. For cheeses with really short culture and set times you can add the enzyme a few hours before you add the culture. The aim is to have 24 hours elapse from the moment you add the enzyme to the point where the curd is being cut. Once the curd is cut things just proceed as normal. It takes a bit of experimentation but the results are pretty good.

Cheers
Dave


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## Cortez The Killer (5/6/07)

Cheese making is soooooooooo on the cards  

I need more time to do all the things i wanna try

Maybe I could quit work and start selling cheese :blink: 

Cheese


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## Tyred (5/6/07)

Thanks for that Dave. Hopefully be able to start making cheese soon.


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## capretta (5/6/07)

i think there is a regional conspiricy regarding junket!! i got books from the library on making cheese and sourced all the ingredients locally except damn junket (rennet). all these old biddies told me they just bought it the other day from coles/woolies but they havent stocked it for months! i tried health food shops only to be laughed at by muscle bound vitamin lovers, and chemists only looked at me strangely when i asked the young girls behind the counters about curds and whey!! hippie organic shops were not interested in my troubles either.

the only sympathy i got was from delis run by old greek italian families who lamented the missing junket cause the grandmother could no longer make cheese! i had shops offer to buy it off me if i ever found it. 

i have discovered it appears that the major supermarkets decided not to stock it anymore causing the single factory that made it to fold. but take heart, a group of ladies from that factory heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth across the land and started http://simplyjunket.com.au/ 
i flicked them an email tonight and ill let you know how i get on. i have lined up 3 local shops that want it as well.

ps. i know i could get rennet on cheeselist, but for $20 (inc postage) i thought i could just waltz into a supermarket and get a substitute cheaply. it then became a matter of stubborness.


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## domonsura (5/6/07)

capretta said:


> ps. i know i could get rennet on cheeselist, but for $20 (inc postage) i thought i could just waltz into a supermarket and get a substitute cheaply. it then became a matter of stubborness.



Stubborn is good, DAMN THE MAN. WE MUST HAVE JUNKET!!!
Funnily enough, I have some in the cupboard, but damned if I can remember why I bought it. I suspect it was one of those 'geez I haven't seen this in years' purchases....... And it was from Coles too.....


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## johnno (5/6/07)

There is a link here to a really basic cheese recipe. With all ingredients available at home.

Would be good for practice fo a beginner.

http://www.iskcon.net.au/kurma/2007/01/15

Then click on the "make your own homemade cheese" Link.


cheers
johnno


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## capretta (7/6/07)

well i got my reply from the junket ladies!! they have accepted a few orders from local suppliers but they politely informed me that junket wasn't really a great substitute for rennet, and unless i was interested in making just "softer" cheeses rennet would be the way to go after all!! (which i probably would have realised if i got to the cheeselist faq) bastard!
so back to cheeselist, they have my money now.. but at least i know junket lives on in the hearts and minds of the elderly and ethnic of illawarra, i will have to buy some now as my corner store stocks it!


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## Cortez The Killer (7/6/07)

which store is that???


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## capretta (7/6/07)

the corner store on campbell st near the masterbuilders called louies corner store ( the name is a little redundant but hey) also city liquor on the princes highway in fairy meadow should be getting it also which is closer to yours i think?


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## PostModern (7/6/07)

My place is mostly vegetarian. My understanding is that rennet is a derivative of calves. We buy cheeses (cheddar even) made with "non-animal rennet". Anyone have an idea of what that is and if it can be bought retail?


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## DJR (7/6/07)

Cheeselinks sell both the veg rennet and the bovine stuff

http://www.cheeselinks.com.au/Rennet.html


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## PostModern (7/6/07)

Sweet. Thanks Ben for saving my lazy arse from having to find that out for myself.


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## Cortez The Killer (7/6/07)

capretta said:


> the corner store on campbell st near the masterbuilders called louies corner store ( the name is a little redundant but hey) also city liquor on the princes highway in fairy meadow should be getting it also which is closer to yours i think?



Sweet I know where that is

City Liquor - that's the old conterin deli isn't it - next to the video shop??


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## AndrewQLD (20/6/07)

Made another Stilton a couple of weeks ago here is a picture of the mould forming after 12 days, the cheese is covered with white mould which appears first and as you can see in the picture the green mould is just starting to appear, I will post another picture in a week to show the changes.




Here is my cheese log file of the entire process.
View attachment Stilton_2.pdf


Cheers
Andrew


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (20/6/07)

That looks like the start of a lovely Stilton Andrew :wub: 

My Blue Cheese kit will be arriving from Cheeselinks tomorrow and I have some lovely Melton Mowbray Stilton than I am going to use to inocculate my first effort with. Can't wait to give it a go.

C&B
TDA


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## warrenlw63 (20/6/07)

TDA Caught in the act.  

Warren -


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## AndrewQLD (20/6/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> That looks like the start of a lovely Stilton Andrew :wub:
> 
> My Blue Cheese kit will be arriving from Cheeselinks tomorrow and I have some lovely Melton Mowbray Stilton than I am going to use to inocculate my first effort with. Can't wait to give it a go.
> 
> ...



Sounds like your off to a great start TDA, watching the cheese start to blue and then rapidly cover itself in mould is amazing. Good luck and have fun.

Cheers
Andrew


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## capretta (20/6/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> Here is my cheese log file of the entire process.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew


 
thanks for your thread andrew, you should get a commission from cheeselinks! i also got rennet, culture C and some cacl and i am just in the process of nutting out a cheese press /mould thing. have you any tips? what did you use for the tubes and followers in your picture? also just a small thing though, in your pdf file i couldnt see you mention innoculation with the mould although in your first post you add it to the milk at the very start??
cheers, cam


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## AndrewQLD (20/6/07)

capretta said:


> thanks for your thread andrew, you should get a commission from cheeselinks! i also got rennet, culture C and some cacl and i am just in the process of nutting out a cheese press /mould thing. have you any tips? what did you use for the tubes and followers in your picture? also just a small thing though, in your pdf file i couldnt see you mention innoculation with the mould although in your first post you add it to the milk at the very start??
> cheers, cam




OOps, my bad. Thanks for that Cam, post has been edited with the corrected PDF, 
My forms are made from PVC downpipe used for rain water, pick any size you like, followers are just made from Tasmanian Oak and the press is made from Pine.
Here is the press I made Press

You won't really need a cheese press for the Stilton, these are traditionaly left to settle in their molds under their own weight rather than being pressed with weights.

For anyone interested here is my Cheese File in blank format, this is a PDF form and is blank so you can insert your own data.
View attachment cheese_file.pdf


Cheers
Andrew


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## capretta (20/6/07)

ahh excellent, that is the direction i was going with the press but that has made it so clear it is almost not fun now!!! (almost) 
hope to have a batch down this weekend.. 
cheers, cam


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## sluggerdog (24/6/07)

While I love a good Camembert/Brie etc I really love my Romano/Parmesan. I notice cheeselinks have a kit.

Anyone have experience with the harder style of cheeses? 
Or is it best to stick with soft cheese?


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## goatherder (24/6/07)

I haven't tried a hard cheese yet sluggerdog - mainly because you need a cheese press to make them. Making soft cheeses you don't need to go to the trouble of buying or building one. It sounds like a logical next step after soft cheeses though...


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (24/6/07)

Just finished my first effort at making Stilton  !

It was actually not as difficult as I thought it might be. I was mostly worried about keeping a constant temperature of 31C and it took a little bit of balancing at the beginning, but after that the thermal mass seemed to help it remain steady.
Now it's just a matter of patience  .

Huge thanks to AndrewQLD and kirem for being great sources of information and help. :beer: 

One question, can I handle it with bare hands when I turn it?

C&B
TDA


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## AndrewQLD (25/6/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Just finished my first effort at making Stilton  !
> 
> It was actually not as difficult as I thought it might be. I was mostly worried about keeping a constant temperature of 31C and it took a little bit of balancing at the beginning, but after that the thermal mass seemed to help it remain steady.
> Now it's just a matter of patience  .
> ...



Congratulations TDA, I am sure it will be a great success. I would try to avoid handling the cheese with your bare hands until it has formed a crust/skin, probably around 6 weeks. I turn mine by putting another drainage mat on top and flipping over using those.
Don't panic if you do touch it, it will be fine. As the mold starts to form keep an eye out for black mold, this is one type you don't want, if it appears wipe it off with a cloth soaked in white vinegar. All the other colored molds, yellow, orange, green, blue are fine.
Hope you have a couple of photos to show us!
Cheers,

Andrew


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## Screwtop (25/6/07)

Using the fermentation fridge for conditioning cheeses is fine but you need to up the humidity, either a small water feature/bubbler in the fridge or simply put the cheeses in the fridge in a container with a lid and a dish of water inside. I press my stilton and age it for 6 months.

For soft cheese such as quark it's possible to use lemon juice to curdle the milk instead of rennet.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/6/07)

I am useless at posting multiple pics to in a single reply to this thread but anyway.....

Here is the cheese after I finished making it on Sunday night. I placed it in a covered styrofoam box with a jug of water for some moisture.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/6/07)

Now it has only been 5 nights since I have made it and there are already signs of blue mold on both cheeses, quite significant actually. Is this too soon for the mold to be forming?
TIA.

C&B
TDA


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## AndrewQLD (10/7/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Now it has only been 5 nights since I have made it and there are already signs of blue mold on both cheeses, quite significant actually. Is this too soon for the mold to be forming?
> TIA.
> 
> C&B
> TDA



Great stuff TDA, on some cheeses the mold completely covers the cheese, I had one that was a vibrant blue/green all over. Yours looks like it's progressing nicely. keep the pics coming.

Cheers
Andrew


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## AndrewQLD (10/7/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> Made another Stilton a couple of weeks ago here is a picture of the mould forming after 12 days, the cheese is covered with white mould which appears first and as you can see in the picture the green mould is just starting to appear, I will post another picture in a week to show the changes.
> View attachment 13300
> 
> 
> ...



Here is the same cheese at 5 weeks, you can see it is losing moisture and has shrunk slightly. In the second photo the needle holes are visible, these allow air to enter the cheese so the blueing can begin inside.




Cheers
Andrew


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## braufrau (10/7/07)

> Put the cheese onto cheese mats to allow them to drain some more. I keep my cheeses in a decore style container in a spare fridge at around 9c, leave the lid open a crack to regulate the humidity and keep turning the cheese on a daily basis. After about 10 days you will see the cheese is starting to mold up



9C?? I need a cellar!


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## Fents (10/7/07)

Just ordered my first cam/fetta/chedda cheese kit last night!

Do i need a cheese press with weights like andrews to make camenbret?


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## AndrewQLD (10/7/07)

Fents said:


> Just ordered my first cam/fetta/chedda cheese kit last night!
> 
> Do i need a cheese press with weights like andrews to make camenbret?



No Fents, Camembert and most blue cheeses are soft to semi soft cheeses and don't need a press.
Let us know how your first attempt goes.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Fents (10/7/07)

will do andrew! i'll take snaps too.


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## braufrau (10/7/07)

BTW - for adelaidians ... the blessed cheese in mclaran vale run one day cheese making 
courses and I *think* you can get rennet etc. there.
http://www.blessedcheese.com.au/


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## Fents (11/7/07)

Cheese kit just arrived :beerbang: 

get stuck into it on the weekend.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (11/7/07)

Okay, here is one of my Stiltons at 3.5 weeks. Crust has formed nicely.


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## Kai (11/7/07)

Geez, that's some interesting mould development, have you been washing the cheese or is that au naturale? You've got some interesting growth cranking there, if you haven't been washing the cheese then it's been very slow, if you have then you shouldn't really be seeing those grey bits. Are they standing up tufty above the white mould? How's the mould on the side of the cheese? I can't see it.

God damn I love cheese.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (12/7/07)

Kai said:


> Geez, that's some interesting mould development, have you been washing the cheese or is that au naturale? You've got some interesting growth cranking there, if you haven't been washing the cheese then it's been very slow, if you have then you shouldn't really be seeing those grey bits. Are they standing up tufty above the white mould? How's the mould on the side of the cheese? I can't see it.
> 
> God damn I love cheese.



Gidday Kai, haven't washed the cheese whatsoever. The cheese was soaked in a saturated brine solution with a drop of the blue mold spores added, this was recommended to me. The white mold and blue/grey stuff are at the same level. I think what you are seeing is the mottling effect of the cheesemat I am using. Mold on the sides is similar.
Should I be worried?

C&B
TDA


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## AndrewQLD (12/7/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Gidday Kai, haven't washed the cheese whatsoever. The cheese was soaked in a saturated brine solution with a drop of the blue mold spores added, this was recommended to me. The white mold and blue/grey stuff are at the same level. I think what you are seeing is the mottling effect of the cheesemat I am using. Mold on the sides is similar.
> Should I be worried?
> 
> C&B
> TDA



That sounds fine to me TDA, mind you the photo isn't the best. The mold you really need to watch for is black and this should be removed with a vinegar soaked cloth. It is really amazing the different color molds that will appear on the cheese as it is maturing, I have had blue, green, grey, orange and brown.


Cheers
Andrew


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (12/7/07)

Thanks Andrew once again. :beer: 

I will be needling these on Sunday and will take some better snaps.

C&B
TDA


----------



## Kai (12/7/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Gidday Kai, haven't washed the cheese whatsoever. The cheese was soaked in a saturated brine solution with a drop of the blue mold spores added, this was recommended to me. The white mold and blue/grey stuff are at the same level. I think what you are seeing is the mottling effect of the cheesemat I am using. Mold on the sides is similar.
> Should I be worried?
> 
> C&B
> TDA




I was well pickled when I looked at that photo and had my ramble last night, it's a bit hard to tell but if that non white mould is grey and not blue then it might be mucor. Not what you really want growing on your cheese but it should still be right to eat if a little more bitter. Like andrew says, you can wash off any moulds you don't want if you're bothered by it.


----------



## fixa (13/7/07)

That's it. Can't take it anymore...

Just ordered a kit from cheeselinks. Unbelievebly, the missus said "OK" when i mentioned it last night. Was expecting a "you wanna make what?"........

roll on next week!!!!


----------



## bonj (13/7/07)

Awesome Fixa! I haven't ordered mine yet. Too many competing interests... building my brewery. But SWMBO is keen to do it too (make cheese that is), so it won't be too long.


----------



## Fents (13/7/07)

fixa said:


> That's it. Can't take it anymore...
> 
> Just ordered a kit from cheeselinks. Unbelievebly, the missus said "OK" when i mentioned it last night. Was expecting a "you wanna make what?"........
> 
> roll on next week!!!!



word! my missus wanted it worse than i did :beerbang:


----------



## fixa (15/7/07)

it's probably already been covered, but can you age the cheeses in the same fridge as fermenting beer? and can you have different varieties of cheese aging in the same fridge? Like a blue, Camembert and cheddar?


----------



## goatherder (15/7/07)

fixa, I have aged my cheeses in my fermenter fridge. I have them in closed containers though. I think a sealed fermentation with airlock would be good practice to keep all the cheese bugs at bay. As for aging different cheeses together, that might be more challenging. The blue mould is very adventurous - my non-blue cheese turned blue pretty quickly when I had it in the same fridge as a blue cheese. I'm not saying it can't be done, maybe others are better at it than me.


----------



## Airgead (16/7/07)

Folks
After a bit of a break from the cheesemaking I got back into it last weekend. Made up a small batch of lactose free chevre style cheese (only not with goats milk) for the missus. Made ricotta out of the whey as well.

The chevre didn't drain properly. I tipped it all into a muslin lined strainer and it went rubbery on the outside but was very sloppy inside. I suspect the muslin didn't let the whey drain properly and having it all in one big lump probably didn't help.

It worked well enough that I got permission to invest in some proper draining baskets and moulds. I think it was the ricotta that did it. The missus used to love ricotta before becoming lactose intolerant so this was the first ricotta she had tasted in 5 years.

I might make up a press and try some hard/semi hard cheeses next.

One question for the other cheesemakers out there - where do you buy your milk? I find non-homoginised works best and the only place I can find that is in the hippy section of coles in a 2l carton. At $5 for 2l its a bit pricey to buy 10l for a decent batch of cheese though. Anyone know of somewhere in Sydney where you can get non-homoginised milk in bulk?

Cheers
Dave


----------



## Kai (16/7/07)

Five bucks for two litres? Blimey.

I was fortunate enough in Adelaide to get non-homogenised milk in 4L cartons for about the same price.


----------



## Fents (16/7/07)

what sort of shop would one buy this milk? milk bar? supermarket?

And will brie and camenbert work fine with normal milk?


----------



## Kai (16/7/07)

I've never tried making cheese with homogenised milk, my understanding is that you will get a set but it will be a poor one and that adding calcium chloride will help. My plan of attack would be to try some softer cheeses first.


----------



## Airgead (17/7/07)

Kai said:


> I've never tried making cheese with homogenised milk, my understanding is that you will get a set but it will be a poor one and that adding calcium chloride will help. My plan of attack would be to try some softer cheeses first.



Thats exactly what I heard too. Which is why I'm chasing the non-homoginised stuff. I've never tried with regular. I'll be making some semi-hard cheese soom so I might try two batches side by site - on normal, one non homoginised. Maybe 3 batches, one regualr with calcium as well. Maybe its a myth.

Cheers
Dave


----------



## Fents (17/7/07)

so where can i buy the good stuff from in Melb? c'mon promise i wont tell anyone..

Im trying brie first...is that too ambishish first tgime round?


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## fixa (19/7/07)

So the kit arrived last night.. Yay!!!

Gonna make some on the weekend, but the missus wants to go away, so might have to make it tommorow night. 

I'm a bit confused though.. i thought normal milk was fine to use with maybe some CaCl added, but now not so sure after reading the "home cheesemaking" book..... anyone?


----------



## goatherder (19/7/07)

I've used normal milk fixa - just the plain old pasteurised/homogenised woollies brand stuff. I didn't add any CaCl either - it seemed to work OK and tasted pretty good.


----------



## fixa (19/7/07)

Sweet.. cheers goatherder


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## fixa (24/7/07)

Well, i'm about to "mash in" on my first cheese attempt. Making Blue cheese, and looking forward to it!


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## Fents (24/7/07)

my kits been sitting in the fridge / freezer for 2 weeks now. bloody need more hours in the day.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (24/7/07)

fixa said:


> Well, i'm about to "mash in" on my first cheese attempt. Making Blue cheese, and looking forward to it!



Good luck with it fixa.

Mine is now 4 weeks old and I am ready to needle it.

C&B
TDA


----------



## fixa (24/7/07)

Well the temp control was easy. The curd hasn't set real hard ( i think i had the cool boiled water for the rennet a bit hot still), but pressing on (no pun intended) anyway. Was surprisingly simple!!!!
Give it a go for those who haven't done it.


----------



## fixa (24/7/07)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Good luck with it fixa.
> 
> Mine is now 4 weeks old and I am ready to needle it.
> 
> ...




Cheers Mate..

Can't wait to taste mine.


----------



## Fents (29/7/07)

Made my cheese yesterday and today!

Started with 10 litres of organic un homogonised milk from safeway. Ended up with loads of BRIE!

Cant wait to taste it.

Just wondering tho cause i dont have a spare fridge to keep it in can i keep it in a kitchen cupoard in a container with a dish of water in it and the lid slighty open? should reside around 16-18c ???


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## fixa (29/7/07)

yeah i think that'd be fine fents..

I've now made blue, and 4 nights ago made camembert. 
After brining and leaving for 2 days, the camembert already has a thin layer of white fuzz starting.. i'm excited!!!!

Now to make a press so i can get some cheddar on.


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## Fents (29/7/07)

what have you got ur's in fixa? old fridge?

cant belive how long it takes too, spose its not that bad, 90 mins here, 20mins turn here and there sort of stuff.


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## fixa (30/7/07)

Currently the blue is in a fermenting fridge by itself, the camembert is just on the table downstairs in a decor container. stays around 15 degrees down there this time of year. When it gets a bit warmer it'll go in the other fermenting fridge. Try and keep the blue away from everything i've heard....

Actually, i was surprised how little effort it took. I preheated the milk in it's containers in the sink, and when i poured them into the saucepan, the temp was right on both times, so little to do in that respect, just keeping addidng some warm water to keep them that way. I can't get non homogonised milk up here though. Apparently not enough tree huggers up here, just dirty rotten miners. So i'm not getting an awesome set on the curd. Willl order some CaCl from cheeselinks and see how that goes.


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## Fents (30/7/07)

Sounds like you have it sorted fixa.

I didnt think i'd get non homogonised either but the missus spotted it walking through safeways.

bring on the tastings!


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## Fents (30/7/07)

Heres my take on the brie situation :

1. Start with all the ingredients - 10 Litres _*Organic Non homogonised*_ milk, plus the other stuff in the cheese kit..







2. Add Type B starter to 500mls of milk and stir then let it sit..






3. Pour all milk including starter into a large pot and bring to 31c (or as close as you can) and leave for 90minutes..






4. To help retain it at 31c best to leave the pot in a sink full of warmish water... 






5. It was 11.30am i was hungry and thirsty so it was melted cheese on spelt toast with a fresh Saaz Pilsner to wash it down!


----------



## Fents (30/7/07)

6. After 90mins + 30mins of adding another Starter we get to cut the curd!! Milk basically sets like yogurht and you cut it into 2cm cubes...






7. Once the curd is cut you leave it for about 15mins then turn the curd over gently in the pot..






8. Then you leave it again for another 2 x 15mins turning the curd again, it will start to break up now..











9. Drain off most of the whey (clear lquid) from the curd...Scoop the curd into your hoops....can be any shape really round, square we did both. Also note i thought we would only get about 2kg's of cheese but i reckon we got heaps more, make sure you have enuff hoops! we had to use the rice cooker basket...

Also Line a tray with cheesecloth so all the whey can drain out...






This is the left over whey






10. Now you have to constantly turn the cheese over so it drains...said somthing like turn on the second hour, sixth hour and then the next day..






11. And turn again!






12. The next day you make a brine solution (20% salt - 80% water) and soak the cheese on both sides for 2 hours.

Then all we did was line the tray again with more cheese cloth, let them dry and put then on a cack rack in the cupboard until tonight when i'll put them in containers with a dish of water for humidity - 4 weeks from now and we sample!!!


----------



## Airgead (30/7/07)

Fents said:


> Then all we did was line the tray again with more cheese cloth, let them dry and put then on a cack rack in the cupboard until tonight when i'll put them in containers with a dish of water for humidity - 4 weeks from now and we sample!!!



Looks good Fents. I'll be trying my hand at Brie in the next few weeks. What weight of cheese did you end up with? It looks like a pretty good result from 10l. Even at $2.50/l for that non homogenised stuff (same brand I get at Coles here in Sydney) it looks like you get enough to make it worthwhile.

Also, did you inoculate with white mould? Or was that in your starter?

Cheers
Dave


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## Fents (30/7/07)

Hi Dave...

I dont know how much we ended up with, i'll weigh it tonight but i tell you what i was shocked. I read that you only get 20% cheese out of your starting weight in milk....So if we started with 10litres (10KG's) i would of expected 2kg's of cheese, but i reckon theres somewhere more like 4kg there, that big flat wheel of brie is massive!!!

As for the cost of the milk $2.50 per litre i reckon its fine, plus i'd rather buy the best anyways.


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## Fents (30/7/07)

Oh and the white mould - a bit is put into the starter at the beginning and then another bit put in the brine soloution u soak the cheese in...


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## fixa (30/7/07)

top pictorial fents!!

You had a much better set on the curds than i got. Will take a pic tommorow night of the mould on my camembert.


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## Fents (30/7/07)

wicked cant wait to see where its at fixa!


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## fixa (1/8/07)

Well here's some pics;

Firstly one of the four Camemberts;






And one of the two blues;








There's some pretty funky mould happening on the blue. It's really interesting watching it change. The Camembert has a light coating of white fuzz. I flipped them today, and they are looking good i think. Can't wait to get stuck into them...

How's all the condensation in the container? No water bowl or anything in there, wonder if it might be too humid for them.. The marks on the blue are from the mould, and the marks on the top are from the draining mat.. looks good!


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## Kai (1/8/07)

Those are some hairy cams, fixa!


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## fixa (2/8/07)

Damn straight! going well. Must be the humid air up here!


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## Fents (2/8/07)

I have a question...

My brie has formed a beatifull white mould but i turned it over and theres some black mould on all the blocks underneath. Not much but def have to get it off. Have tried wiping with a cloth soaked in vinegar but as i wipe it that seems to spread it...

Any other ideas? i dont really want to have to cut it out... :angry:


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## NRB (2/8/07)

I hope for your sake Fent it's not _Aspergillus niger_ or another toxic black mould species. :blink:


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## Kai (2/8/07)

Wipe it with a weak hypochlorite solution if you're desperate. It's not likely to be A. niger (oo err), though if the colonies have black heads with a white base then head for the hills.


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## bonj (2/8/07)

Kai said:


> though if the colonies have black heads with a white base then head for the hills.



How would you know on a brie/camembert?


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## Fents (2/8/07)

i just ended up cutting it all off.

will the mould still spread to the now "un moulded" area i have cut or should i apply more mould spores?


----------



## Kai (2/8/07)

If you've got good growth of nice mould in the non-nasty areas then it's got a good chance of recovering the exposed space before the black one can recover. You'd best keep a careful eye on your cheese though, because it's much more likely now that you will see that mould again.

It won't hurt to apply more nice mould to the exposed areas though. Some people like to make up a spray bottle of mould solution, if you've got a biggish maturation area then even spraying the whole thing down can be useful.


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## fixa (2/8/07)

Got some hippy milk from the local iga today! gonna make havarti tommorow. Trying to build the stock up now so they can age..


----------



## sjc (3/8/07)

Hi Fixa
I had a go at making havarti a couple of weeks ago. Are you using the recipe book that cheeselinks sells? One of the final steps in the process is adding cold water to bring the curd/whey temp down to 28 C. Make sure you have enough water to achieve this quickly and don't let the curds spend more than 5 mins at this temp before you hoop them otherwise you might find they will not readily fuse together in the hoops.

Are you planning to wax the havarti or do the traditional washed rind treatment that the recipe refers to?

Cheers
Stephen.


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## fixa (3/8/07)

cheers mate. will do that. Yes, using the cheeselinks book. handy little number that one!
I'm gonna wax it, as i'm going away for work in 2 weeks, so won't be able to wash it all the time.
I'm at the temperature raise point ATM, gee this one takes a while to make!!! longer than a batch of AG!


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## sjc (3/8/07)

Hope it goes well for you then fixa. Yes depending on the style you're making, the cheesemaking can be quite labour intensive compared to making beer.
I making up some quarg at the moment (incubating at 20 C since last night) which will be used for making a baked cheesecake Sunday night. Also have cultured some cream overnight which is now chilling to be ready for churning into butter tonight. When I told one of my friends they asked had I heard of supermarkets?
Cheers
Stephen.


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## fixa (3/8/07)

Yeah, my friends are like that too. Stuff 'em, they won't get any of it!
Just hooped the curds, quite an open texture on this one. now to cool in water then the brine.


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## sjc (3/8/07)

Hi Fixa
yes the texture is quite open, but if you think of any commercial ones that would be to style. I think mine ended up being too open, so I hope you have better success. After I got mine out of the hoops I decided they were too open to wax, hence my decision to give them the Brevibacterium treatment!
Cheers
Stephen.


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## Fents (3/8/07)

thing im gonna have to throw most of my brie  the blacks creeping back slowly. bloody stupid bugga. might be able to save a tiny wheel  just like brewing lern from the costly mistake and push on right?


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## Kai (3/8/07)

I assume it's not soft enough to eat? Unlike beer, you can keep your cheese if you're willing to rub out the infection every few days. It's not contaminating the whole cheese after all, but it is an indication that everything ain't entirely perfect. If you think you can salvage it, then you may as well try. If not, break out the black plastic bag.


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## Fents (4/8/07)

cheers kai, yea gonna leave it and maybe try n salvage it. see how it goes, def doing things differently next time.


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## fixa (5/8/07)

Sucks to hear fents.... I guess it'd be like losing a brew..

My blue is now completely covered in blue mold. The cams have a huge covering of white fuzz, gonna wrap them in foil tommorow. And i waxed the havarti today.


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## Fents (6/8/07)

funny thing is i've never had to tip a brew before hahaha. anyways just cut the big chunks out and wrapped em in a foil and will open them in a week.

Hey does the wrapping stop the mould growth by the way?


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## fixa (9/8/07)

well here's some more cheese porn. I wrapped them today..

Here's the cam's...









And the blues; You can see where i've stabbed them. The real life colour looks much more blue than the pic.. must be the green kitchen throwing the colours off...








Look pretty funky!


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## AndrewQLD (9/8/07)

They look awesome Fixa, you guys are really going great guns.
I hope you're all documenting your efforts, you need to keep accurate written records so that when you make a cheese you love you can reproduce it easily. Also so you can post it here and we can all have a go at your recipe. You can use the PDF document I posted earlier if you want or just write it in a book for reference.

Cheers
Andrew


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## fixa (15/8/07)

Made more camembert yesterday. The hippy milk seem to yeild more cheese than the ordinary milk.. I guess it's got more wholesome goodness in it! Hopefully should be tasting the first cams in about a week. I'm very big kev about that!


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## Fents (15/8/07)

dont ever wrap cheese in baking paper and then foil after that. the paper sticks to the cheese like nothing else. gonna be picking off bits for weeks!


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## Fents (15/8/07)

oh and where can i get more of those cheese mats fixa like in your pics? i have two at home but mum brought then for me when i moved out about 7 years ago. Have NFI what there called or even what they are used for? Non slip mats maybe?


----------



## fixa (15/8/07)

the brown square ones are from bunnings, theyre things that help you get the lids off jars, not sure what they are called. The black stuff is just drawer liners cut up to fit the container...


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## fixa (15/8/07)

And i wrapped mine in glad wrap, so we'll see how that goes...


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## braufrau (17/8/07)

I did the one day course at the blessed cheese in Mclaren Vale last weekend.
It was pretty worthwhile but I probably didn't learn much more than from this thread! 

Anyway guys, I pondering starting a cheese forum. I don't think there's a cheese making forum on the web.
What do you think?
Wondering if its worth coughing up for a domain name, setting it up, and then trying to create interest.
It obviously wont get the traffic that AHB does but I learned so much from AHB I wanted a similar thing for cheese.

Do you think, will it fly Orville?

-bf


----------



## braufrau (17/8/07)

braufrau said:


> I did the one day course at the blessed cheese in Mclaren Vale last weekend.
> It was pretty worthwhile but I probably didn't learn much more than from this thread!
> 
> Anyway guys, I pondering starting a cheese forum. I don't think there's a cheese making forum on the web.
> ...




Hmmm. There's a UK one ... so I wont bother.
http://www.cheesemaking.org.uk/forum/


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## capretta (17/8/07)

geez you are keen!! maybe if you link to cheeselinks or something already established to make use of their traffic?


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## fixa (17/8/07)

Well, i couldn't resist anymore.
Last night, i got out a camembert, cut it and ate it. 





And it was GOOD!!!!! :beerbang: 

Damn, this cheese was sensational! Now i need to make lots more to stock up!!


----------



## AndrewQLD (20/8/07)

fixa said:


> Well, i couldn't resist anymore.
> Last night, i got out a camembert, cut it and ate it.
> And it was GOOD!!!!! :beerbang:
> 
> Damn, this cheese was sensational! Now i need to make lots more to stock up!!



Hey, where's the picture??? Come on mate give us a look at your first attempt.

Cheers
Andrew


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## fixa (20/8/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> Hey, where's the picture??? Come on mate give us a look at your first attempt.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



I would but there's none left!!


I promise i will take a pic of the next cheese i cut (next few days max) from the same batch!!!


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## AndrewQLD (23/8/07)

Here is my latest Blue cheese, pictures are day 1 and day 11.




2 more weeks at 8 and 90% humidity and then I will wrap them in cheese foil for another 2 months maturing.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Fents (24/8/07)

Andrew...

My bries have a funny smell....almost sulphury like when i take a whiff of the white mould..

Is this normal / bad? Will it die down a bit if i leave them unwrapped for a bit?

Im still to scared to taste them after that black mould (which i cut out and it has not come back) and now this!


----------



## AndrewQLD (24/8/07)

Fents said:


> Andrew...
> 
> My bries have a funny smell....almost sulphury like when i take a whiff of the white mould..
> 
> ...



It's quite common for mouldy cheeses, especially camambert and Brie to have an ammonia type of smell it's part of the white mould byproduct, It becomes very strong if the cheese is too warm or too moist, let it air a bit and it will dry off and the ammonia smell will diminish. I would probably keep at refridgerator temps now. What did you wrap it in, is it sweating/slimy?

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Cummins (2/10/07)

Hi guys. I have just received my blue cheese kit and I'm about to make my first cheese!

I have just picked up 6.5ltrs of fresh milk (straight from the cow). Anything I should be doing differently than with processed milk?

I was planning on generally following the posted Stilton recipe on the first page, what is the general rule for how much starter culture to add? I was taking a guess of around 1/5tspn? How the hell do you measure such a small amount? Is there any problem with adding too much? What about using mould spores, they are also added at the beginning?


----------



## AndrewQLD (3/10/07)

Cummins said:


> Hi guys. I have just received my blue cheese kit and I'm about to make my first cheese!
> 
> I have just picked up 6.5ltrs of fresh milk (straight from the cow). Anything I should be doing differently than with processed milk?
> 
> I was planning on generally following the posted Stilton recipe on the first page, what is the general rule for how much starter culture to add? I was taking a guess of around 1/5tspn? How the hell do you measure such a small amount (same with rennet)? What about using mould spores, they are also added at the beginning? How much?



Hi Cummins,
I use a 10ml syringe for measuring my rennet and my mold spores and the amounts used vary from recipe to recipe. If you bought a blue cheese kit the rennet and mold culture will have instructions with ml per litre on the vials, usually 2.5 ml per 10 lt. Use your fresh milk the same as processed milk.
Good luck and keep us posted with results.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## Cummins (3/10/07)

Thanks for the info Andrew. I will post some results at a later time.

My main concern was with the 'Type B Starter'. It has instructions for making a starter culture overnight but I was going to put it direct with the milk, and all it says for that is the whole pack does 250L. I'll just wing it and see what happens.

Cheers


----------



## AndrewQLD (3/10/07)

Cummins said:


> Thanks for the info Andrew. I will post some results at a later time.
> 
> My main concern was with the 'Type B Starter'. It has instructions for making a starter culture overnight but I was going to put it direct with the milk, and all it says for that is the whole pack does 250L. I'll just wing it and see what happens.
> 
> Cheers



I just sprinkle a few grains in 100ml of milk, stir like crazy, lid it and leave overnight on the kitchen bench. 

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## mfdes (3/10/07)

Making hard romano type cheeses is pretty easy too. We could be using al those lactobacilli cultures in our beer as well


----------



## Cummins (3/10/07)

Well it's in the sink now... My only problem with the inital steps was that the mould spores dripper bottle was clogged and instead of 3 drops about 300 came out, but it sprayed away from the pot luckily. Is there any bad effects with too much? Does it just produce far too much mould?


----------



## AndrewQLD (4/10/07)

Cummins said:


> Well it's in the sink now... My only problem with the inital steps was that the mould spores dripper bottle was clogged and instead of 3 drops about 300 came out, but it sprayed away from the pot luckily. Is there any bad effects with too much? Does it just produce far too much mould?



That's bad luck, from what I remember from school mold colonies can only support a certain density so hopefully you will be ok, I would think you will get an early start to your molding which may or may not be a bad thing. Keep us informed of your progress.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Cummins (4/10/07)

Ok, theyre now in a spare fridge at around 7degs, is this too low? The only other option is in the house at 20 which I thought would be too high. 

I also totally forgot to salt the curds, is this super bad? More risk of infection?

Ill let you know how this goes anyway. Might have to start planning batch number 2 soon and do things a little different!


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## goatherder (4/10/07)

I think forgetting to salt is bad. Like potentially dangerous bad. Hopefully someone who knows more than me will confirm or deny this for you.


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## Kai (4/10/07)

Yup!

You need to salt your cheese at some point. Make up a saturated brine solution with a little vinegar, get them out of the fridge and give 'em a dunk. Fifteen minutes might do depending on the size, someone else will surely be able to fill you in better. 

Without salting your cheese you'd better eat it now or throw it out.


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## AndrewQLD (5/10/07)

Do as Kai says or you can sprinkle all external surfaces with iodine free salt (crushed rock salt is my choice) and repeat 24 hours later.
12 would be a better temp for the first few days, but 7 will be fine but the blue will take longer to form, just make sure you have the cheese in a sealed tupperware container, you need to keep the humidity high >90%.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## bottle top (6/10/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> Do as Kai says or you can sprinkle all external surfaces with iodine free salt (crushed rock salt is my choice) and repeat 24 hours later.



Is it important to use iodine free salt?


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## AndrewQLD (6/10/07)

bottle top said:


> Is it important to use iodine free salt?



Yes it is, the iodine in table salt can cause your cheese to discolour.


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## Cummins (10/10/07)

After salting it up, I thought it was back on track, until the spare fridge got turned off and it has been sitting at around 35 degs for 18 hours. I think it's a writeoff now! 

Making cheese is so much harder than making beer.


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## fixa (11/10/07)

LOL... but the results are soooo worth it. I cut open my first chesse the other day, a blue. It was awesome. I left the blue on the outside when i wrapped it, and glad i did because i thought i put a lot of holes in it, but maybe the skewer i used wasn't big enough... there wasn't a huge amount of bluing through it. Bloody nice cheese though. And the havarti i made for the missus is good too. Nice adn creamy, it's the one i made with hippy milk.


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## capretta (11/10/07)

hmm im with cummins, i have been making cream cheeses and the like since this thread started but i just got my fridge back on line so i thought id make a blue for christmas. i used 6 litres of parmalat and left it at room temp for 20 hours after sprinkling some farmhouse culture on ( cause i didnt make a starter ) and the whole thing turned to a yogurht consistancy!! i tried following the rest of the recipe as per andrewqld but the rennet had little to no effect..
i read heaps on the subject before i started but obviously i have a flawed understanding of the process.. spewin. i ended up getting about 2 cups of curds and pressed it under 5kgs for 30 mins then broke up salted then under the weights again for 40 mins. it sort of held together so i will chuck it in the fridge and cross my fingers and see how we go. 

sooo... black mold is bad. any other last minute warnings that may save my life?


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## AndrewQLD (11/10/07)

capretta said:


> hmm im with cummins, i have been making cream cheeses and the like since this thread started but i just got my fridge back on line so i thought id make a blue for christmas. i used 6 litres of parmalat and left it at room temp for 20 hours after sprinkling some farmhouse culture on ( cause i didnt make a starter ) and the whole thing turned to a yogurht consistancy!! i tried following the rest of the recipe as per andrewqld but the rennet had little to no effect..
> i read heaps on the subject before i started but obviously i have a flawed understanding of the process.. spewin. i ended up getting about 2 cups of curds and pressed it under 5kgs for 30 mins then broke up salted then under the weights again for 40 mins. it sort of held together so i will chuck it in the fridge and cross my fingers and see how we go.
> 
> sooo... black mold is bad. any other last minute warnings that may save my life?



You really need to make a small starter, basically what you have done is made up a huge starter, if you had taken a cup full of your six lt yogurt looking stuff and added that to a new 6 lt of milk and followed the rest of the process you would have been fine.

Cheers
Andrew


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## AndrewQLD (11/10/07)

Here's a couple of pics of my latest Australian blue. very tasty and creamy with a mild blue flavour.






Cheers
Andrew


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## capretta (11/10/07)

this was after the choozit cheese culture turned it to yohgurt! and after adding the splach of blue mold culture..




about 13cm across and 9cm high


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## AndrewQLD (11/10/07)

Looks like cheese to me  it may be a little acidic from the starter culture but then again it might be the best cheese you have ever eaten as well.

Cheers
Andrew


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## capretta (11/10/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> You really need to make a small starter, basically what you have done is made up a huge starter, if you had taken a cup full of your six lt yogurt looking stuff and added that to a new 6 lt of milk and followed the rest of the process you would have been fine.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



haha thats a sh!t load of cheese! beyond my dairy capabilities! yeah i realised what had gone wrong when i saw it, i just didnt think it would go so quick.. i had a few stuff ups whilst making beer and its the mistakes that help you understand the process better.would i have got a higher yield if the rennet worked properly or is that about it? the cheese itself tasted sour-ish but not unpleasant, hopefully just a "tangy" blue.. just like i like them luckily.


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## AndrewQLD (11/10/07)

capretta said:


> haha thats a sh!t load of cheese! beyond my dairy capabilities! yeah i realised what had gone wrong when i saw it, i just didnt think it would go so quick.. i had a few stuff ups whilst making beer and its the mistakes that help you understand the process better.would i have got a higher yield if the rennet worked properly or is that about it? the cheese itself tasted sour-ish but not unpleasant, hopefully just a "tangy" blue.. just like i like them luckily.



10 lt of milk will usually yield about 1 kilo of cheese, that varies depending on the style of cheese your making.


Cheers
Andrew


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## capretta (11/10/07)

cool, so not much more then, just tighter curds by the look of it. thanks for your help and inspiration.. i have been sampling different blues constantly trying to improve my palate, my mrs thinks im crazy from all the mold! :icon_drool2:


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## Kai (12/10/07)

Love the cheese press, capretta,


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## AndrewQLD (14/10/07)

After finishing of my last cheese I had to make another batch of Blue Vein cheese, this pic is after it's first turning. Very easy and reliable recipe and tastes great. The PDF is the recipe.
View attachment Blue_Vein.pdf


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## capretta (23/10/07)

well i just got back from holidays and went to check on my "cheese" first thing (cause i had a bit of a stab at temp regulation, didnt have time to see the temp stabilise with the timer before i left) and it turns out it has been sitting for 10 days at 7 degrees and is REALLY moldy! :icon_drool2: 
should i wash the rind or just leave it?


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## AndrewQLD (23/10/07)

capretta said:


> well i just got back from holidays and went to check on my "cheese" first thing (cause i had a bit of a stab at temp regulation, didnt have time to see the temp stabilise with the timer before i left) and it turns out it has been sitting for 10 days at 7 degrees and is REALLY moldy! :icon_drool2:
> should i wash the rind or just leave it?
> View attachment 15601




Looks like the humidity might have been a trifle high, I wouldn't wash the rind, that's how it should look, now would be a good time to pierce the cheese all over with a knitting needle to let the mold travel to the inside and maybe leave the container lid open a little more to start the cheese crusting.

Cheers
Andrew


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## capretta (23/10/07)

yep yep, the lid of the tupperware fell down and sealed while i was away and i had a little water in the bottom, so the humidity would have been as high as it was possible! cool, cheers andrew..


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## AndrewQLD (25/10/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> After finishing of my last cheese I had to make another batch of Blue Vein cheese, this pic is after it's first turning. Very easy and reliable recipe and tastes great. The PDF is the recipe.
> View attachment 15396
> 
> 
> View attachment 15395



10 days later and the mould is starting to form, the blueing will happen very quickly now and within a couple of days they will be completely covered, it's hard to see in the pics but after about day six a white fuzz forms on the outside of the cheese, this then turns to the blue/green mould. I'll post another pic in a day or two to show how fast the mould grows.




Cheers
Andrew


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## sstacey (28/10/07)

Something that I have been wondering... do you have to use non-homogenised milk to make cheese, or will your average supermarket full-cream milk do the job okay?


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## AndrewQLD (28/10/07)

I use normal store bought Homo/pastuerised milk with no problems, I do add 2.5ml CaCl for each 10 lt of milk to help bring it back to how it should be.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Kai (28/10/07)

CaCl doesn't bring the milk back to how it should be exactly, but it does give you a better set than homogenised milk on its own would. If you're going to follow that path then I'd definitely recommend using it.


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## AndrewQLD (28/10/07)

Kai said:


> CaCl doesn't bring the milk back to how it should be exactly, but it does give you a better set than homogenised milk on its own would. If you're going to follow that path then I'd definitely recommend using it.



Kai is right, and I should have been a bit more detailed in my reply, a CaCl addition will help to restore the ability for the milk to coagulate properly,


> heat treatment of milk at high temperatures can bring about changes in the mineral constituents of the milk, principally the calcium, which can interfere with the secondary phase of gel formation, that is the aggregation of the renneted casein micelles, 5-20 grams of calcium chloride per 100 kg of milk is normally enough to achieve a constant coagulation time and results in sufficient firmness of the coagulum


, some interesting reading here link, and although the addition of CaCl to Homo milk is not as good as using unhomogonised milk it certainly does help in approximating the required results.

Cheers
Andrew


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## AndrewQLD (29/10/07)

AndrewQLD said:


> 10 days later and the mould is starting to form, the blueing will happen very quickly now and within a couple of days they will be completely covered, it's hard to see in the pics but after about day six a white fuzz forms on the outside of the cheese, this then turns to the blue/green mould. I'll post another pic in a day or two to show how fast the mould grows.
> 
> View attachment 15631
> View attachment 15632
> ...



And here are the same cheeses 3 days after the above post, the mould really takes off fast once it starts to develop.
I'll needle them in a day or so.




Cheers
Andrew


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## apd (30/10/07)

SPS said:


> Something that I have been wondering... do you have to use non-homogenised milk to make cheese, or will your average supermarket full-cream milk do the job okay?



And has anyone used raw milk and did you notice a difference? I noticed raw milk for sale at the organic shop at Sth Melb market. They market it as a body wash sort of thing to get around the no-raw-milk-for-human-consumption thing.

Andrew


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## bottle top (14/12/07)

Hey guys, great thread. I was inspired to have a crack at camembert - which is (hopefully) moulding up in the fridge as I type - and I just thought I'd post a few questions/observations out there.

- Can anything useful be done with the leftover whey, or is this discarded? I had a go at making some ricotta but it seems to have such a low yield it's not worthwhile.
- Does anybody actually accurately measure the quantities of starter/mould powders, or is the consensus that you just add a pinch? The penicillin mould is supposed to be good for 250L but it is a tiny amount of powder!
- What is the idea behind making a starter? I didn't bother, just pitched the culture directly into the milk, and I got a very good set.
- When you leave the curds to shape in hoops is this done in the fridge or at room temp? Are there any issues with leaving at room temp for so long, e.g. infection?
- How long does it take for brie/cam to mould sufficiently before wrapping? Can the cheese be aged in the fridge (i.e. 4*C) at that stage, or is it better to keep it higher?
- How do you guys store your cheeses while they are growing mould? Do I need the container of water for humidity as others have mentioned? It looks pretty damn humid in there as it is...
- Does anyone have any links to good cheesemaking sites with recipes/guides? I didn't bother with books because I figured I could find everything I need online, but I had trouble finding anything comprehensive and ended up winging it with bits and pieces from this thread and elsewhere.

Pic of my babies at 1 day old:




Keep up the good work!


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## capretta (15/12/07)

heh heh welcome to the dark (and moldy) side. ill have a crack at one of your questions about starters after screwing up my starter..

the starter appears to be there to provide the proper flavour profile for the cheese (ie tangy, but not too tangy..). Its not like yeast, in that it is possible to make cheese happily without a starter, it just adds a bit of sourness (think of it like adding hops or something).

i made my mistake by thinking "oh screw a starter ill just add the culture to the milk and leave it for a night". it turned my milk into a yohgurt like consistancy and i reduced effeciency as the curds didnt set properly.

i kept mine in a big tupperware container on a raised metal rack with a (very) little water swilling round under it. andrewqld suggested this method was probably too much humidity, so now i just use a facewasher cloth wrung out in the corner and the tupperware lid half open, worked fine so far..

enjoy, cam


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## bottle top (15/12/07)

Thanks for the reply.

I guess my cheese won't be as strong-flavoured as it would have been with a starter? I did read elsewhere that a starter wasn't necessary with DVI cultures. I suppose I'll reserve my judgment until the taste test.

Do you keep your tupperware container in a fridge? If so, at what temperature?

Cheers
Ben


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## capretta (15/12/07)

yeah mate in the fridge with a timer on the power so the temp is between 7-10 degrees.. unfortunately it gets stinking hot over summer in wollongong so its neccesary.


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## capretta (15/12/07)

well all this cheese talk has inspired me to get my over cultured blue vein attempt out of the fridge and wrapped for human consumption.its been 2 months, occasionally at higher temps than optimum ie 12-14 and pretty instructive.
the smell is pretty intense, to be expected. its lost a fair bit of moisture and in most parts except for a little patch it looks like an aged chedder. the taste is very strong especially towards the outside of the cheese, tastes not like the creamy blue i was aiming for (who am i kidding i didnt follow any directions properly..). taste is almost metallic in strength, but there is an almost there quality to it which drives me nuts!!  

just like my first homebrew. <_< 

well andrewqld i realise your ability after rereading this thread tonight and im inspired to exactly follow a pdf recipe, something very difficult for me to achieve.


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## Thirsty Boy (15/12/07)

I saw tha Basic Brewing video episode where he made Mozzarella.

I thought "it couldn't possibly be that easy, but it got me thinking. 4 days later the rennet I ordered from cheeselinks arrived  and I had a crack. About 1 hr later I had 250g of mozzarella cooling in my fridge and it was really really nice.

I served it up as an afterwork snack when Mrs Thirsty got home. She liked it and and wanted to know where I got fresh such fresh mozzarella 

I think that I'll be giving the stilton and some camemebert a go in the very near future.

Could I use a bit of mushed up brie/cam rind as a white mold ionnoculation? Obviously from Andrews first post I can use a bit of blue stuff from a hunk of cheese as a blue mold starter ... I thought maybe the same would work for the white mold.

Thanks for the great thread

Thirsty


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## Lindsay Dive (18/12/07)

Has anyone made fresh Ricotta?

It's the easiest cheese to make. 

Use ten litres of milk and bring it up to 90 - 95 degrees C and then slowly pour in 1/2 cup of White Wine Vinegar whilst stirring. The action is immediate and very impressive.
Pour the result into a cheese cloth lined collander and let drain for a short time. Don't let it sit for too long in the collander or will be too dry.

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## bottle top (19/12/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Could I use a bit of mushed up brie/cam rind as a white mold ionnoculation? Obviously from Andrews first post I can use a bit of blue stuff from a hunk of cheese as a blue mold starter ... I thought maybe the same would work for the white mold.



I was wondering the same thing myself, but I chose the safe option and ordered the spores from cheeselinks. It would be ideal if you could, as this is the most expensive ingredient to purchase (apart from the milk).

Couple of pics of my camemberts as they age:






You can see in the second pic, they now have a fine covering of white mould. Unfortunately I'm going interstate for 2 weeks so I won't be able to wrap them until I get back. Anyone have an opinion on whether I'm better off wrapping now or in 2 weeks time?


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## sstacey (22/12/07)

Thanks Andrew and Kai, I thought my question got lost and just saw your responses today!
This looks really interesting. I'm going to give it a try.


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## braufrau (23/12/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Could I use a bit of mushed up brie/cam rind as a white mold ionnoculation? Obviously from Andrews first post I can use a bit of blue stuff from a hunk of cheese as a blue mold starter ... I thought maybe the same would work for the white mold.




People on this forum do that all the time.
Keep in mind that you may get other bugs as well that have either been deliberately introduced (e.g. KI black label has b. linens on it as
well as the white mold) or naturally develop. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.


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## braufrau (23/12/07)

SPS said:


> Something that I have been wondering... do you have to use non-homogenised milk to make cheese, or will your average supermarket full-cream milk do the job okay?




Unhomogenised milk is really easy to get in Adelaide.
Look for B.D. farms, murray bridge or fleurieu. B.D. farms is stocked by woollies and foodland.
Murray bridge I get from the greengrocers and fleurieu you can get at the wayville farmers makets.

BTW - B.D. farms is *delicious*

Also you can get the parmalat stuff too. I did the cheese course at the "blessed cheese" and he recommended
the parmalat stuff because its a blend of milk from different dairies and so less prone to regional changes such
as changes in pasture.


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## braufrau (23/12/07)

bottle top said:


> Couple of pics of my camemberts as they age:
> 
> View attachment 16740
> View attachment 16739



what's the stuff in the bottom? Bubble wrap??


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## bottle top (6/1/08)

braufrau said:


> what's the stuff in the bottom? Bubble wrap??



Hehe, that's some kind of plastic mesh that I found blowing around the garden in my mad search for something on which to rest the cams! Worked quite well, but I left it for two weeks without turning so it required a bit of gentle persuasion and general cheese mauling to separate the cheese from the plastic this arvo. 

Pic of one of the cams prior to wrapping:



I guess I'll sample one in a couple days time and report back.


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## capretta (6/1/08)

well here we are, blue vein take 2, i made these 4 days ago and i just popped them out of the molds when they'd shrunk enough for me to get them out. the two large ones came from small pool chlorine baskets from bunnings ($6 ea) and the flatter one is from the small storage buckets that i used for my first effort. i used a knife and fork drawer basket from bunnings ($5) and cut it to size for my fridge to place the cheeses on and provide good airflow underneath the cheese cause the metal cake cooler i used for the first one developed rust spots cause of the moisture. 
i didnt compress these ones under weight and i used a mold culture from the roaring 40s blue from king island dairy, apparently a roquefort strain. 
i used 3lx parmalat 7lx dairy farmers and 1lx full cream and the yield was a little higher than i expected, but i think i will get over it!


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## 65bellett (6/1/08)

Lindsay Dive, Cheers for the Ricotta recipe. I just made some out of 1 litre of milk it was lovely.


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## sinkas (6/1/08)

Is Home made cheese actually economical?
I ask as I woudlnlike to get a kit for my wife, but if there is not some degree of saving to be made, Im not sure she woudl bother.

EG how much cheese do you get form 10L of milk?

Cheers

Case


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## capretta (6/1/08)

well sinkas, if you see my post i used 10l of milk and 1l of cream. if you make a good blue etc i reckon it would be worth it and it will taste better than a cheapy from the specials rack. plus the pleasure of making it!


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## Kai (6/1/08)

Is cheese ever economical? Too many hundred-dollar visits to the central markets here.

But seriously, yes it can be good value if you can make good cheese. The trickiest thing you need is a good cellaring/maturation environment and I'm sure you have that already, case. You do need to be able to make good cheese, however. Did I say that already?


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## Haydo (7/1/08)

Got a kit from cheeselinks for Xmas so have put down a cam and a blue vein batch, found it quite easy, just hanging for a couple of weeks till I get to try the cam.

On the economical front, there are a few sites Ive found on the net that reckon powdered milk with a bit of cream added gives the best results for cheese. Has anybody tried this? Thought I might run a small batch on the side as an experiment next batch I do.


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## Airgead (25/1/08)

Folks

Made some more lactose free cheese for the missus last weekend. This time I tried some Fetta. 10l of un-homogenised hippy milk from coles ended up making 2.1kg fetta. I also separated the cream which I made into 300g of sour cream then the whey made another 300g of ricotta. The fetta is in the brine and maturing nicely. I think I'll pick up some white mould and try some mould ripened cheese next time.




Cheers
Dave


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## capretta (5/2/08)

hey all, is it too early in the day for some mould pr0n? 

i couldnt wait any longer so i harvested the short cheese in my pile. all up i got just shy of 300g after trimming (which i will use on spagetti or something..) im going to take some (not too much) to the illawarra brewers union meeting this weekend..

they spent 1.5 weeks at high humidity (with standing water) and developed a good mould coat then 1.5 weeks without water which firmed the cheeses up really well. then the last week added more water and i pricked the cheeses to make the veins, but couldnt resist pulling the smallest one out. all kept at 7-12 deg.

*MUCH* better taste this time.. i am converted! :wub: thanks all!


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## AndrewQLD (23/3/08)

Well I finally made some Camembert yesterday using Armstrongs nice kit. the process was simple and well explained.

Temperature spot on ................................................................... Good clean break




Molded up .......................................................................Salted and ready for maturing


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## InCider (23/3/08)

Oh YUM! Love the pics Andrew. Mmmm now I'm hungry...


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## Tim F (23/3/08)

Lindsay Dive said:


> Has anyone made fresh Ricotta?
> 
> It's the easiest cheese to make.
> 
> ...



I use this same recipe to make the cheese for palak paneer (sp?)
You can substitute lemon juice for the vinegar, I think the flavour is a little less tangy but both work. After draining the curd, wrap it tightly with a cheesecloth overnight. This makes a fairly firm cheese which can then be cut into cubes, and bobs your uncle! I can't find my recipe atm or I'd post it too, but from memory you just chop and fry an onion with garlic, cumin and ginger and add cooked blended spinach and tomato puree. Then brown the cheese cubes in oil in another pan, and gently stir the cubes through the spinach mix and serve with rice. Lovely stuff but yeah maybe google for a proper recipe if you are interested


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## brendanos (26/3/08)

Kai said:


> Is cheese ever economical? Too many hundred-dollar visits to the central markets here.
> 
> But seriously, yes it can be good value if you can make good cheese. The trickiest thing you need is a good cellaring/maturation environment and I'm sure you have that already, case. You do need to be able to make good cheese, however. Did I say that already?



I'm hearing that! I just spent $30 on less than half a kilo of cheese. At least I don't live up the road from Richmond Hill Larder anymore, that place sent me broke a little too often.

Keep the photo's coming guys, they're fantastic!


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## Linz (26/3/08)

Haydo said:


> On the economical front, there are a few sites Ive found on the net that reckon powdered milk with a bit of cream added gives the best results for cheese. Has anybody tried this?




Yup.....Little Squares did for the 3 MONSTER cams. Still a couple of weeks of maturing before gorging ourselves on them....one at a time of course...


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## Thirsty Boy (27/3/08)

Tim F said:


> I use this same recipe to make the cheese for palak paneer (sp?)
> You can substitute lemon juice for the vinegar, I think the flavour is a little less tangy but both work. After draining the curd, wrap it tightly with a cheesecloth overnight. This makes a fairly firm cheese which can then be cut into cubes, and bobs your uncle! I can't find my recipe atm or I'd post it too, but from memory you just chop and fry an onion with garlic, cumin and ginger and add cooked blended spinach and tomato puree. Then brown the cheese cubes in oil in another pan, and gently stir the cubes through the spinach mix and serve with rice. Lovely stuff but yeah maybe google for a proper recipe if you are interested




And the same thing again for the Queso Blanco I made, salted lightly & hung overnight in a cheesecloth... I cut mine into slices and fried it haloumi style. Served with fresh ground black pepper, lots of lemon juice and a drizzel of olive oil with a light rocket salad.... oooh er it wasn't arf nice.

Currently eating a nice slow set acid curd cheese I made on the weekend. Supposed to be made with goats milk, but its turned out quite well using cow juice. A little creamier and less sharp.

I'm having trouble getting a nice clean break with my curds... they all end up a little sloppy. I'm usig bog standard supermarket milk and adding a little calcium chloride to overcome the homogenisation... but its not working so well. More Calcium Chloride? Maybe not enough rennet?

I have a birthday request in for selected chunks of the Cam kit from country brewer (not the whole thing, I have a lot of the kit already) plus a selection of assorted bugs... moldy cheese is _firmly_ on the agenda.

TB


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## Linz (27/3/08)

Linz said:


> Yup.....Little Squares did for the 3 MONSTER cams. Still a couple of weeks of maturing before gorging ourselves on them....one at a time of course...




After speaking to the wifey, She informed me that she used straight powdered milk and added extra powder to make it 'creamier'?!?!.. <_<


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## braufrau (30/3/08)

Thirsty Boy said:


> I'm having trouble getting a nice clean break with my curds... they all end up a little sloppy. I'm usig bog standard supermarket milk and adding a little calcium chloride to overcome the homogenisation... but its not working so well. More Calcium Chloride? Maybe not enough rennet?



I did the course at the Blessed Cheese and we used Parmalat unhomogenised milk. You can get that in Safeways in Melbourne.


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## AndrewQLD (30/3/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Well I finally made some Camembert yesterday using Armstrongs nice kit. the process was simple and well explained.
> 
> Temperature spot on ................................................................... Good clean break
> View attachment 18234
> ...




Day nine and the cheeses have a wonderfull snowy white covering, I'll wrap the tommorrow and post another pic in a few weeks on the tasting day.




Andrew


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## AndrewQLD (4/4/08)

I plan on doing a bit of cold smoking this weekend and thought that "Smoked Camembert" might be interesting, at least more so than "Chocolate Camembert" , sorry Armstrong :lol: .
This cheese still has a couple of weeks left to mature and I thought if I cold smoke one now and then leave for a couple of weeks to mature it would help to develop the smoky flavor.

My only concern is the smoke might Kill the molds off.

Any Ideas?

Andrew


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## Thirsty Boy (5/4/08)

braufrau said:


> I did the course at the Blessed Cheese and we used Parmalat unhomogenised milk. You can get that in Safeways in Melbourne.



Thanks braufrau

I'll try that next batch. If it fixes the problem I'll know its not the rennet dosage. Then I can either stick with the parmalat or muck about with the amount of calcium chloride I am using.

Cheers

TB


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## Armstrong (5/4/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> I plan on doing a bit of cold smoking this weekend and thought that "Smoked Camembert" might be interesting, at least more so than "Chocolate Camembert" , sorry Armstrong :lol: .
> This cheese still has a couple of weeks left to mature and I thought if I cold smoke one now and then leave for a couple of weeks to mature it would help to develop the smoky flavor.
> 
> My only concern is the smoke might Kill the molds off.
> ...



Hmmm ... I have no idea what the smoke will do to the mould. The fact that is the mould that ripens the cheese, it may stop or at least slow down the ripening process.

Great experiment ... will await the results :icon_drool2:


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## redgums500 (6/4/08)

Anyone got any idea how to make a White Castello clone ? Looked on the net to no avail. 


cheers 

Redgums


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## AndrewQLD (17/4/08)

Here's a picture of the Camembert from a couple of posts up, matured 1 month.
Really tasty & creamy and the texture is fantastic.

Great kit Armstrong.




I wasn't game to try smoking one until they matured so I might give it a go this weekend.

Cheers
Andrew


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## bonj (17/4/08)

That looks great, Andrew.


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## tazman1967 (22/4/08)

capretta said:


> well here we are, blue vein take 2, i made these 4 days ago and i just popped them out of the molds when they'd shrunk enough for me to get them out. the two large ones came from small pool chlorine baskets from bunnings ($6 ea) and the flatter one is from the small storage buckets that i used for my first effort. i used a knife and fork drawer basket from bunnings ($5) and cut it to size for my fridge to place the cheeses on and provide good airflow underneath the cheese cause the metal cake cooler i used for the first one developed rust spots cause of the moisture.
> i didnt compress these ones under weight and i used a mold culture from the roaring 40s blue from king island dairy, apparently a roquefort strain.
> i used 3lx parmalat 7lx dairy farmers and 1lx full cream and the yield was a little higher than i expected, but i think i will get over it!
> View attachment 17019
> ...



Hi Capretta
Great cheese  I have just started making cheese. King Island is my favourite cheese. Being a Tasmainian Im biased. How or where did you get the mould culture for the Roaring Forties Blue ? My Fave is the King Island Double Brie. Any ideas on a recipe for that ? Sorry..just newbie questions ?


----------



## capretta (23/4/08)

hey taz, no help for you on the double brie front, compressing my cheese like that makes the cheese a little more like chedder consistancy. if you find a good recipie be sure to post it cause my mrs is a big fan of that cheese!! 

the mould culture was ripped straight from the roaring forties itself, just like culturing up your favourite beer yeast from bottle dregs. i just got a teaspoon of the blue stuff and mixed it into a cup of milk till it was fully mashed up then added it to the milk before the rennet.. easy as  you could probably do that with heaps of cheeses though i cant speak from experience..


----------



## tazman1967 (23/4/08)

Thanks for the info and advice. The Double Brie is on the drawing board. Will have play around with it. Will post results in the future.


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## brendanos (23/4/08)

braufrau said:


> we used Parmalat unhomogenised milk. You can get that in Safeways in Melbourne.



Has anyone else run into any unhomogenised, or cream line milk in their travels? I'd love to know where I could find some. The cheeses I've tried made from the garden variety "macro" milks seem a little lacklustre, and don't seem to develop much with age.


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## capretta (23/4/08)

ive asked around. apparently any milk producer who is contracted to dairy farmers etc are afraid of losing their licence if they hand out unhomog milk.. thats what i was told anyway.. <_<


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## Fents (24/4/08)

brendanos said:


> Has anyone else run into any unhomogenised, or cream line milk in their travels? I'd love to know where I could find some. The cheeses I've tried made from the garden variety "macro" milks seem a little lacklustre, and don't seem to develop much with age.



Go to safeway or Coles. There is an organic brand of milk called Paramalt. You can get it in Light or Full cream. Its unhomoginesed and makes the best curd!


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## capretta (24/4/08)

ahh sorry, late night typing, i meant unpasturised...


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## Little_Squares (25/4/08)

Well, even though the Linz is waiting eagerly for the camembert to ripen, I don't think it's gonna do so well......once I wrapped them everything went south - they got too humid and turned on me...... any ideas? Can you just turn up the cheese cave (fridge) temp once they're covered in mould and leave them unwrapped? I'll post a picture once I get up the courage....


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## agraham (4/5/08)

Ok guys you have inspired me to make cheese!

I will be ordering a romano/parmesan kit from cheeselinks tommorow. I will have to work out how to press the cheese to achieve the correct consistency needed for the style.


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## benno1973 (5/5/08)

brendanos said:


> Has anyone else run into any unhomogenised, or cream line milk in their travels?



I've heard (but haven't seen) that Fresh Provisions in Mt Lawley stocks an organic unhomogenised milk. Otherwise you could try Herdies Fresh, or if all that fails there's an organic store on Beaufort St in Mt Lawley that would probably have it - can't remember the name unfortunately, but it's next door to Tony's pasta house and opposite the Inglewood Library. Finally, there's a dinky little store on the corner of 9th Ave and Beaufort St that carries a whole bunch of middle eastern goods - that'd also be worth a shot, as they have some pretty hard to find stuff...


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## agraham (5/5/08)

The parmalat organic milk is available as unhomogenised. 

I will be using some of the low fat variety to make my romano cheese this weekend


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## brendanos (11/5/08)

I still haven't run into any unhomogenised milk in WA! I've tried a few Woolies/Coles, Fruit & Veg stores and health stores but to no avail. (Cheers for all the tips though kaizer, will report back if I find some!)

I made 3 types of soft cheese (aka bag cheese) tonight to give to my mum tomorrow. A light buttermilk cheese (half whole milk), whole-milk ricotta, and panir.

The buttermilk was made by leaving 600ml of buttermilk at room temperature for a day, then mixed with 600ml whole milk and heated directly til it curdled (at 50-60C) then bagged and sieved. From 1.2L I got about 200 grams of cheese. It's soft like cream cheese and pleasantly tart.

The ricotta failed on first attempt, as I added cream before heating, rather than after draining of the curds, and it never curdled. Second attempt I used 1.5L of whole milk, 1/2tspn citric acid, and some cheese salt. It curdled just short of 80C. I mixed a bit of the failed batch (which was creamy and sour) into the finished ricotta (as i'd ran out of cream) and it tastes great. Approx 325mls/375grams yield.

For the panir i added 50ml lemon juice to 1.5L whole milk once boiling, flameout, stirred, let sit for a while then bagged, rinsed and drained. Yielded approx 350grams. Despite rinsing I still ended up with a pretty obvious lemon flavour in the cheese. Pretty bland otherwise, I guess it was boring milk.


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## benno1973 (12/5/08)

brendanos said:


> I still haven't run into any unhomogenised milk in WA! I've tried a few Woolies/Coles, Fruit & Veg stores and health stores but to no avail. (Cheers for all the tips though kaizer, will report back if I find some!)



Hey brendanos,

Yep, I've looked long and hard in Coles/Woolies/IGA etc and found nothing. Although my sister-in-law rang the other night to confirm that Fresh Provisions in Mt Lawley stock 2L cartons of unhomogenised milk, which isn't tooooo far away from you.


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## brendanos (12/5/08)

Oh yeah I went there yesterday, and found 2L organic unhomogenised whole milk from busselton ($5.79), 1L avon valley cream line ($7), 1L frozen unpasteurised goats milk from busselton ($4.50) and some unhomogenised skim milk (1L) that i guess would be great for hard cheeses. Thanks!


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## KHB (15/5/08)

Little_Squares said:


> Well, even though the Linz is waiting eagerly for the camembert to ripen, I don't think it's gonna do so well......once I wrapped them everything went south - they got too humid and turned on me...... any ideas? Can you just turn up the cheese cave (fridge) temp once they're covered in mould and leave them unwrapped? I'll post a picture once I get up the courage....




I spoke to a local cheese maker as i am getting a kit for my bday and she said they basically wrap them once the mould is developed after about a week and store @ 1-4 degrees


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## Cummins (15/5/08)

So how long does this cheese last? I did one.. well cant be bothered reading up in this thread... but i think it was last october. It is still in the fridge! I never wrapped it or anything. Is it time to chuck it out or what? Tried it a few months ago and it was ridiculously bitter and strong tasting in a good way. Is is still ok?


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## ibast (19/5/08)

Hi guy,

thought I'd drop you a note to let you know I've kicked off my first cheese. I got the Camembert kit from Country Brewer. The only variation I did so far was was use some bean cans on top of some aluminum discs to press the cheese.

How do you guys go about aging? Controlled fridge, standard fridge or in the bottom of a cool cupboard or similar?

Danny


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## AndrewQLD (20/5/08)

ibast said:


> Hi guy,
> 
> thought I'd drop you a note to let you know I've kicked off my first cheese. I got the Camembert kit from Country Brewer. The only variation I did so far was was use some bean cans on top of some aluminum discs to press the cheese.
> 
> ...




Hi Danny,

I have a small counter top fridge I use for maturing my cheeses, the Camembert sit in there in a container with the temp set at 12 for about 4 weeks, I then wrap them and store in a normal fridge until ready to use.

I just finished my last camembert that was probably about 2 months old, this cheese was fantastic, when it was taken out of the fridge and brought back to room temp, it started to flow when it was cut. Very creamy with a strong camembert flavour.
By the way, you don't need to press your soft cheese styles such as camembert and Blues.

Cheers
Andrew


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## ibast (20/5/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> By the way, you don't need to press your soft cheese styles such as camembert and Blues.



Thanks, I'll try that next time. I was more trying to reduce the 5 hrs of turning and waiting.

Does anyone know what happens if you substitute some of the milk (say 600ml) for cream? do you get a creamier cheese or more curd or both?

So many questions.


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## Kai (20/5/08)

You'll get a creamier cheese, yes. But you'll need to be a little more careful with the set and draining the curd, higher fat can make the whole process a little more fickle.


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## brendanos (21/5/08)

Kai said:


> You'll get a creamier cheese, yes. But you'll need to be a little more careful with the set and draining the curd, higher fat can make the whole process a little more fickle.



I'll second that notion. I decided to "improvise" on a ricotta recipe (the recipe was quite vague as to when to add cream) by adding the cream before coagulation........... turns out it never coagulated. I learnt the same lesson as I did with beer, which is, follow recipes until you really understand what's going on!


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## [email protected] (5/6/08)

Hi Guys,
I am starting my cheese making hopefully over the weekend (Camembert for starters), a few questions have come up after reading the Country Brewer instructions and from reading the few threads which are around here.

1- Is a starter required? can't the Culture / Mould blend be put into the milk once bought up to 32C?

2- Calcium chloride is this still required if using non homogenised milk? 

3- When putting the milk in after the mould blend heads in it would be ideal to leave the temp at around 32C? This looks to be the case right up until you are ready to put the curds in the moulds.

4- Aging can be done 15C for 8 - 10 days in a cool humid environment, what is the best way to get the humidity up? A bowl of water inside the box keeping it at the desired temp? I did get the ripening container with the kit does this need to be completely sealed or left slightly open with a bowl of water near the container?

I reckon that's about it for the time being, will keep you all updated when I finally get started 

Thanks

Cheers
Darren


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## ibast (5/6/08)

I'd be interested in the answers of 1-3, but I can help you with 4. The excess whey and the paper towel in the bottom of the container provide enough humidity for aging. Not need fro a container of water. Also the standard container was fine with the clips done up.


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## capretta (5/6/08)

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys,
> I am starting my cheese making hopefully over the weekend (Camembert for starters), a few questions have come up after reading the Country Brewer instructions and from reading the few threads which are around here.
> 
> 1- Is a starter required? can't the Culture / Mould blend be put into the milk once bought up to 32C?
> ...



1. a starter isnt neccesary, just helps the cheese develop flavour, which you may or may not prefer..
2. why not chuck it in? cant hurt, but i am of the understanding that cacl is there to reverse the effects of homogonisation..
3. not sure of question
4. i put my cheese in a large tupperware container, on a plastic rack ,then put 1/2 inch of water under the cheese with the lid of the tupperware slightly open..

happy cheeseing


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## [email protected] (5/6/08)

Thanks for the help guys, nice and quick too 

Re question 3 what I meant was is it ideal to keep the temperature 32 degrees right up until the cheese goes into the moulds, after reading the instructions again it seems this is the case.

What temperature would you generally try and keep it at capretta when maturing?


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## capretta (5/6/08)

oh i think i get it, the temp is best kept at 32 right up until you remove the curds. 32 is for the mesophilic cultures and i think it assists the rennet in forming a tight curd, so after removing the curd i just leave it at room temp, whatever that happens to be.. check out andrewqld s photo session at the start of this thread for handy tips.. good luck


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## RobB (5/6/08)

brendanos said:


> I still haven't run into any unhomogenised milk in WA!



I have heard that there is a source of unhomogenised and _unpasteurised _milk in Perth, and it's pretty close to you Brendan!

Organic on Charles (on Charles Street, strangely enough) sells "Cleopatra Milk", so named because you're meant to bathe in it. After all, it would be illelgal to sell it for human consumption, right?  It sounds a bit like the stills which are sold in homebrewing shops but which are only meant to be used for extracting essential oils.

I haven't seen it with my own eyes and I have also heard it gets snapped up pretty quickly, so ring ahead before you go.

Cheers,

Rob


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## braufrau (7/6/08)

brendanos said:


> Oh yeah I went there yesterday, and found 2L organic unhomogenised whole milk from busselton ($5.79), 1L avon valley cream line ($7), 1L frozen unpasteurised goats milk from busselton ($4.50) and some unhomogenised skim milk (1L) that i guess would be great for hard cheeses. Thanks!




Holey moley! I think we must be spoilt here! $3.90 for 2l of biodynamic jersey milk. :icon_drool2:


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## RobB (7/6/08)

Malty Cultural said:


> I have heard that there is a source of unhomogenised and _unpasteurised _milk in Perth, and it's pretty close to you Brendan!
> 
> Organic on Charles (on Charles Street, strangely enough) sells "Cleopatra Milk", so named because you're meant to bathe in it. After all, it would be illelgal to sell it for human consumption, right?  It sounds a bit like the stills which are sold in homebrewing shops but which are only meant to be used for extracting essential oils.
> 
> ...


An update on this one - If you go to this shop to buy their unpasteurised milk, keep your mouth shut! SWMBO went there yesterday and asked about the milk, but the owner suddenly became very shy. Yes they stock it, no they don't want to talk about it.

Once you announce your intentions to consume the stuff, they're almost obliged to not sell it to you. So just buy your 'bath milk' and leave with a nod and a wink.


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## brendanos (7/6/08)

braufrau said:


> Holey moley! I think we must be spoilt here! $3.90 for 2l of biodynamic jersey milk. :icon_drool2:



This is at a 24/7 continental convenience store though, not particularly known for competitive prices. But if it means I can buy organic veges and a lentil bonda at 3am then I don't mind paying for it!



Malty Cultural said:


> An update on this one - If you go to this shop to buy their unpasteurised milk, keep your mouth shut! SWMBO went there yesterday and asked about the milk, but the owner suddenly became very shy. Yes they stock it, no they don't want to talk about it.
> 
> Once you announce your intentions to consume the stuff, they're almost obliged to not sell it to you. So just buy your 'bath milk' and leave with a nod and a wink.



Thanks for the tip off Rob, I'll be sure to make that my next milk stop. I wonder if they expect you to buy 120L, or if a 1:10 diluted milk bath is believable...


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## [email protected] (9/6/08)

Well got my first batch done yesterday, geez it takes a while doesn't it!

One problem I left the stove on low (bloody electric rubbish) and checked the milk, it hit just below 50 degrees, this was just after the starter went in so I think I may have stuffed something up although not sure what to expect now.

The camembert certainly look normal enough ie round, I am up to where you put paper towel over the top and leave for 24 hours, we'll see how it goes after that.

The milk was crazy, the cheapest we managed was BD Farms which was $4.08 for 2L, an expensive lesson if the above mistake stuffed it up.

How do you guys manage to keep it at the proposed 32 degrees through the process?

Have a couple of pics will need to grab them a little later.

Cheers
Darren


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## capretta (9/6/08)

warm water bath gives you greater thermal mass therefore greater temp control. just do it in the laundry sink and pour in boiling water every now and then..


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## [email protected] (10/6/08)

ahh good so my idea of whacking it in the laundry trough wasn't such a bad idea after all  

It seemed to work alright, I found the water would hold the temperature for 20 minutes or so.

Checked the camembert this morning, a lot of moisture is still coming out and gradually getting smaller but we'll soon see how it all pans out when they head into the aging stage.


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## Linz (10/6/08)

[email protected] said:


> How do you guys manage to keep it at the proposed 32 degrees through the process?
> 
> Cheers
> Darren



Mell uses a boiler in a boiler, with water in it, over a cheapy gas burner from the $2 shop. Heating the water around the pot with the milk in it.


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## KHB (19/6/08)

I just got the camaberet kit from cheeselinks for a birthday present. My question is to start out making to rounds for the hoop supplied how many litres of milk will i need?

Cheers KHB


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## Tseay (20/6/08)

Gals and Guys , if you are willing to put your cheese and beer out there, would you check out the Castle Hill beer comp post under competitions.


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## edoeven (23/6/08)

my first batch of cheese if on the way as I type! I have a couple of questions.

I made the cheese last monday- so today is 7 days old. The instructions mention it might take 10 days for the mould to grow, but my cheese was well and truly moulded up by 5 days. I wrapped it today. Had a bit of a problem - I had turned the cheese once or twice while waiting for the mould to grow, and it was stuck to the plastic mesh pretty bad. Also the paper towel was stuck in the cheese 

so it took a fair bit of effort to get the cheese off the plastic mesh to wrap it and ended up with a bit of paper in it, oh well. The mould "skin" came off in a few places where it was stuck (but I managed to get most of it stuck back on) will this cause any problems? 

apart from that and taking a long time it went smoothly  I used the cheapest milk. Sorted temp control with some gear I managed to borrow from work ( a chemistry lab ) so that went well, got a nice clean break, however when I was stirring it and cutting it I think a lot of my 2cm chunks ended up a lot smaller, making them hard to get find with my slotted spoon, especially towards the end (or, perhaps I didn't remove enough of the whey), so I poured the mix thru a strainer to get the last of it.

I checked the temp where I was maturing, ~ 15-17 degrees, this is a little higher than recommended! This is probably the reason my mould grew a bit fast I guess, should I keep maturing at this temp or get it somewhere cooler? (the only other option is the fridge I guess....) could I run into problems if I keep maturing it at 17 degrees?

also, can someone confirm that the rennet from the country-brewer kit is 'vegetarian' ?
cant wait to try the cheese in a few weeks


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## capretta (26/7/08)

hey all been lovin the cheesemaking, but wanted to ask a question of the mould lovers. i have been aging a few rounds with a combination blue and white mould i got off some tasmanian heritage blue/cam and 4 weeks on i have developed a dusty looking orange growth in conjunction with the white and blue moulds. now my mrs is not very adventurous and that wrote those cheeses off for her, but to talk her round has anyone else had experience with mould of that description? needless to say i washed them with brine and wrapped them  heres hopin!


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/7/08)

capretta said:


> hey all been lovin the cheesemaking, but wanted to ask a question of the mould lovers. i have been aging a few rounds with a combination blue and white mould i got off some tasmanian heritage blue/cam and 4 weeks on i have developed a dusty looking orange growth in conjunction with the white and blue moulds. now my mrs is not very adventurous and that wrote those cheeses off for her, but to talk her round has anyone else had experience with mould of that description? needless to say i washed them with brine and wrapped them  heres hopin!
> View attachment 20315



Hey capretta, I had a similar type of thing happen to my one and only effort at making Stilton. The cheese wound up with an overpowering ammonia smell and taste so it got binned.
I too would be interested to see if the orange mould is a sign of something good or bad. I do want to try it again and soon.

C&B
TDA


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## capretta (28/7/08)

hmm, the cheeses in the same batch did have a strong ammonia taste/smell early on but that has since mellowed, only to be expected for a cam though i believed... i will leave these till the end of the week and ill give it a go and report back.


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## AndrewQLD (28/7/08)

Orange mold on a Stilton style cheese is very desirable, all good stiltons will have that particular mold and you can see this in the crust of a good English Stilton. The mold to watch out for is black and is not a good sign.


The ammonia aroma is usually quit strong if the cheese has been matured too warm or in too high a humidity, if it's strong open your aging box and let the cheese dry slightly and the ammonia smell will lessen considerably.

Andrew


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## sjc (1/8/08)

Further on the orange "mould", it could be Brevibacterium linens, which occurs naturally on huma skin but is also cultured speciifically for washed rind cheeses, such as the French Pont l'Eveque. It competes very strongly with the white mould and will give the cheese a good pong and quite a different flavour to that derived from a pure white mould.



Cheers

Stephen.


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## agraham (5/8/08)

Tried my pecorino that was made 3 months ago....wow is all i can say.

Between making beer/bread/snags/pasta/pizza im struggling to find motivation to go to work.

All i can think of is living on a farm and being self sufficient....


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## capretta (6/8/08)

haha that pretty much sums it up i think... time to go feral and join these blokes in tasmania.
passionate apprentices




i think there is room for a cheesemaker and possibly a brewer as well but from what i remember i think john made his own beer too so you might even be able to start a club down there!!


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## agraham (6/8/08)

Love the hair cut  You dont have be that hard core a "greenie" to want to live like that.


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## KHB (6/8/08)

well my first batch finished aging and when i cut it it was hard and a little rubbery!! Was 5 weeks old im thinking maybe i didnt have enough humidity as i had the temp spot on when making it. I used a brocolli box ice packs and a cup of water to get it humid next time will try a smaller box and have a towel dipped in the cup to act as a wik. Whadda ya reckon??


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## capretta (6/8/08)

did you use milk and cream? or just milk? i always add some cream to my milk to bump up the fat content. cams are meant to have minimum 35% fat i think i read? maybe your temp with the rennet was too high? or the curds cut too much? not sure.. :unsure: 

did it taste nice??


----------



## AndrewQLD (7/8/08)

KHB said:


> well my first batch finished aging and when i cut it it was hard and a little rubbery!! Was 5 weeks old im thinking maybe i didnt have enough humidity as i had the temp spot on when making it. I used a brocolli box ice packs and a cup of water to get it humid next time will try a smaller box and have a towel dipped in the cup to act as a wik. Whadda ya reckon??




You'll find the longer you age it the runnier it will get! I would leave one for another week or two to see what happens.

My first attempt at Camembert was interesting,

At six weeks the first one I cut was rubbery in the middle and runny around the outside, the mold works its way in eventually.
At 10 weeks the last one I cut literally flowed out of the skin, tasted awesome too.

Andrew


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## ArnieW (7/8/08)

Woohooo,

I've just been given a super cheese-making kit for my birthday - there are lots of cheese-lovers in this house  

Anyway I'm planning on starting with a camembert this weekend, so have been doing a bit of research. My local coles has the unhomogenised organic milk that others have talked about but its only 1% fat. Would it be ok to add cream to it and if so are there any guides as to the right amount? Or should I search for a full cream milk?

Arnie

'blessed are the cheesemakers'


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## Airgead (8/8/08)

ArnieW said:


> Woohooo,
> 
> I've just been given a super cheese-making kit for my birthday - there are lots of cheese-lovers in this house
> 
> ...



If its from Coles its probably parmalait. That should come in a full cream as well. our local Coles certainly carries it and its what I use for chesemaking normally. If I'm feeling really flush I'll get some uber hippy milk from Macro but at $7 for 2l that's a bit steep for everyday.

Some cheeses do want a low fat milk though... fetta is one from memory (chese book not with me at work). The brie type styles usually want more than full cream. Cheddars and things like that are usually regular full cream.

Cheers
Dave


----------



## ArnieW (8/8/08)

Airgead said:


> If its from Coles its probably parmalait. That should come in a full cream as well. our local Coles certainly carries it and its what I use for chesemaking normally. If I'm feeling really flush I'll get some uber hippy milk from Macro but at $7 for 2l that's a bit steep for everyday.
> 
> Some cheeses do want a low fat milk though... fetta is one from memory (chese book not with me at work). The brie type styles usually want more than full cream. Cheddars and things like that are usually regular full cream.
> 
> ...


OK, thanks Dave. I'll have to have a closer look but at least I know I'm on the right track.


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## wambesi (10/8/08)

My first batch of Camembert is on it's way!
Although efficiency (  ) was down as I got 3 instead of four, I don't think my clean break was as clean as it could have been.

Anyway the three have been turned a few times, and will now be left overnight for the other half to salt tomorrow morning as I have to leave quite early.
Made some ricotta with the leftover whey as well.

I guess we'll see how it goes, looking to do some chedder in the coming weeks as well as a stack of other styles, thank god I have the extra fridges (there goes the power bill...)

:lol:


----------



## AndrewQLD (11/8/08)

Wambesi, you'll love your first taste of home made cheese. Sounds like the bug has well and truly bitten.

Here's a pic of my latest Blue. 24 hrs old and just out of the mold, 10 lt of milk went into this one.


----------



## wambesi (11/8/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Wambesi, you'll love your first taste of home made cheese. Sounds like the bug has well and truly bitten.
> 
> Here's a pic of my latest Blue. 24 hrs old and just out of the mold, 10 lt of milk went into this one.



Nice. Yeah the bug has hit, now doing cheese, yoghurt, jerky, mead, beer, ginger beer and the list grows bigger...!
My camemberts came out of the moulds this morning and are standing around 2in tall. Do you think they will reduce down more still?


----------



## edoeven (11/8/08)

my first batch of cheese turned out incredibly good - very tasty, quite strong, but very runny (like, thick cream runny)!
what process should I alter next batch to make the cheese a little firmer?
- longer curd ripening time?
- smaller cuts? (altho, already very small already in last batch)
- longer draining/ more turning time?
- does ripening temp have an effect on consistency?

fyi I just used cheap homebrand milk - the curds set well (nice clean break) and the cheese was awesome. 
the cheese was matured for ~ 3-4 weeks @ 13-16 deg C (room temp inside), the first one I tried at about T+4.5weeks was nice but still had a firm center and runny outside. Cheese was then left to mature in the fridge for a further few weeks - after another 3 weeks, the remaining cheeses were creamy all the way thru.


----------



## capretta (12/8/08)

wambesi said:


> Nice. Yeah the bug has hit, now doing cheese, yoghurt, jerky, mead, beer, ginger beer and the list grows bigger...!
> My camemberts came out of the moulds this morning and are standing around 2in tall. Do you think they will reduce down more still?



no, i dont think they will shrink much more. they will reduce in size a little over the next 2-3 days as the extra water comes out but only by 10% or so..



likesbeer:D said:


> very tasty, quite strong, but very runny (like, thick cream runny)!
> what process should I alter next batch to make the cheese a little firmer?



umm, was it a camembert/ brie?  if so the riper they are the runnier... so , eat them earlier would be the answer. the action of the white mold breaks down the curds to a runny consistancy, thats why the runniness moves from the outside to the middle as the mold does its work. maybe try making some harder cheeses..


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## edoeven (12/8/08)

I think the problem was the initial maturation was at a temp that was too high - the outside was too runny even when the inside was firm! (not yet ripened!)
gotta get around to making some more...


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## wambesi (19/8/08)

Righto, here's a pic of one of my Camemberts. They are almost ready to wrap and mature further.
Hopefully should be nice in a few weeks....


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## AndrewQLD (20/8/08)

wambesi said:


> Righto, here's a pic of one of my Camemberts. They are almost ready to wrap and mature further.
> Hopefully should be nice in a few weeks....
> 
> View attachment 20730



Looks great wambesi, very nice covering of mold.


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## AndrewQLD (20/8/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Wambesi, you'll love your first taste of home made cheese. Sounds like the bug has well and truly bitten.
> 
> Here's a pic of my latest Blue. 24 hrs old and just out of the mold, 10 lt of milk went into this one.
> 
> View attachment 20560



Here's the blue starting to mold up, 10 days after making I've got the humidity up around the 85% region.




Andrew


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## wambesi (21/8/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Here's the blue starting to mold up, 10 days after making I've got the humidity up around the 85% region.
> 
> Andrew



That looks like alright, I havn't had much blue before so maybe I might start checking some out.

Mine have now been wrapped as they have a nice white coat all over, 2-4 weeks now apparently.
What have most people found best aging the camemberts? They will be kept around 15 deg.


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## wambesi (6/9/08)

Well I don't think these have turned out..... :angry: 




I just cut this one after three weeks but only around the outside (apart from the rind) is oozy/runny, the inside has either dried out or does it need more time?
I have a feeling though that it has gone bad, it has quite a discouraging "grassy" smell, which gets worse when I cut it. No other visible moulds or anything else bad except the drier centre.
Maybe they were to thick? I thought they might have been when I put them in the molds.

Still have one left in the fridge but not sure what to do.......


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## capretta (7/9/08)

not matured enough, the inside turns soft last. the in the grassy smell is probably closer to ammonia, a byproduct of the process, that will die down as the spores complete their work. dwrahac..


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## AndrewQLD (7/9/08)

wambesi said:


> Well I don't think these have turned out..... :angry:
> 
> View attachment 21013
> 
> ...




Looks pretty good to me for a 3 week old cheese. Another 3 weeks and it will be completely soft. It should still taste good now it just won't have matured as much.

Andrew


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## wambesi (7/9/08)

Ok thanks guys, appreciate the info. Another few weeks it is.

Good to hear the smell should subside as it was very offputting.


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## KHB (7/9/08)

i made a camaberet and it turned out rubbery any ideas i heald my temps when making at what the book said


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## reviled (14/9/08)

Is it possible to make cheese without buying any of that stuff from that cheese website...

I dont think any of its available in NZ, if I was going to do it id have to make a postal order <_<


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## wabster (15/9/08)

After the cheese making demo at TCB Casula on August 2nd, we bought a camembert making kit. 

We have 3 batches of 4 cheeses in various stages of production, however the first batch is ready.

We tried the first one on Saturday, with some Spanish jamon and Essential Ingredients smoked salmon with dill, and some crackers.

We let the camembert come to room temperature, and it was neither firm nor runny, just right I'd say. The flavour was just wonderful. I have photos but they are on MsWab's phone so I'll post them later. All in all fantastic outcome.

AndrewQld - where did you get your gear for the blue cheese? And how did you keep the temp and humidity right for it to mature the way it has?

So much cheese, so little time!!! Cheerz Wabster


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## AndrewQLD (16/9/08)

wabster said:


> After the cheese making demo at TCB Casula on August 2nd, we bought a camembert making kit.
> 
> We have 3 batches of 4 cheeses in various stages of production, however the first batch is ready.
> 
> ...




I believe Country Brewer sells a blue cheese making kit now.
I use a small "Dorm" fridge to mature my cheese it sits at around 13 at it's highest setting and if the cheese is in a closed container the humidity is up around the 85-95% mark.

If your looking at getting a maturing fridge I'd have a look at the wine cabinets, try to get one that chills via a peltier device, in other words without a compressor. Find one that will have a temp range from 8-15 if possible, you will find the humidity in these will be a lot higher than a fridge that tends to dry the air out drastically.

Cheers
Andrew


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## wabster (16/9/08)

This is a pic of the "First cut". I didn't think of taking a side view of the cut surfaces after cutting it, as myself and MsWab were really hanging out to get into it, and the accompanying goodies.

I'll remember next time  Thanks Andrew for the heads up on the Blue cheese and temp control.


​


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## Airgead (16/9/08)

reviled said:


> Is it possible to make cheese without buying any of that stuff from that cheese website...
> 
> I dont think any of its available in NZ, if I was going to do it id have to make a postal order <_<




You can.. but the gear makes it easier. If you want some ultra simple cheese recipes using stuff you can find round the house look here - http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/cheese.html

Cheers
Dave


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## wabster (23/9/08)

Hi Folks,

As promised, here is a better photo of the second piece of Camembert from the first batch we made on 5th August, wrapped on the 16th August. The taste is just right, creamy and the mould flavour is great, noticeable but not overwhelming. I have a few more lots to make, and I might start looking seriously at doing some blue. Cheerz Wab.




​


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## wambesi (6/10/08)

Hmm, they ended up going in the bin.  

That smell got alot worse and it also started to have unwanted growths, I'm putting it down to temp control as we had a few hot spiked days (well more than a few) and it fluctuated between 10-25 deg, with some sweating inside the wrap.

Not to worry. I now have my bar fridge back with new fridgemate attached and it's sitting on top of the fermentation fridge.
And I just finished three more Camemberts ready to go in there in the morning.

Hopefully these one's will be better!


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## Bribie G (8/10/08)

Indian curd cheese (Panir). 

I'm currently on a bit of a Hare Krishna food thing. I followed a recipe for Panir on the web, heated up two litres of full cream milk, poured in about a quarter of a cup of vinegar (Philippines cane vineger) and waited for it to curdle into curds and whey. 

I got a certain amount of solids breaking out, but after straining through a nylon stocking, the 'whey' was the same colour as ordinary milk and not at all transparent. Got about half a cup of curds out of the exercise which I have just had fried with spinach, garlic and curry spices toasted in the sandwich press in an olive oil brushed Lebanese bread. Yum. However still can't help thinking it was poor value for $2.40 and should have got far more solids out of it.

Anyone have a recipe for Panir that works??


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## ibast (10/10/08)

BribieG said:


> Indian curd cheese (Panir).
> 
> Anyone have a recipe for Panir that works??



Haven't tried it yet, but from an Indian cook book I have:
- Bring *2l of milk* gently to the boil
- Remove from heat
- Stir in *1 cup of natural yogur*t and *2 tbls of lemon juice*
- Leave to site for a few minutes
- Strain through muslin cloth


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## braufrau (15/2/09)

So this is going to be the year for cheese now that I'm all shifted down and all ...

what do you experienced guys reckon?
Blue a la AndrewQLD or camembert? Which one's easier?


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## wabster (15/2/09)

braufrau said:


> So this is going to be the year for cheese now that I'm all shifted down and all ...
> 
> what do you experienced guys reckon?
> Blue a la AndrewQLD or camembert? Which one's easier?



I'm a camembert man meself, it takes about 6 weeks from stovetop to mouth, but I think it depends on which style of cheeses you prefer. 

I've been enjoying my home made camembert with spanish jamon and other yummies and have enjoyed them so much I haven't yet moved to making my beloved stinkies. However given I'm in Melbourne for all of February, I'm planning on getting down to Cheeselinks at Hoppers Crossing and buying the requirements to make the hard and smelly cheeses too 

Enjoy to the max whatever you decide tro make,

Cheerz Wabster


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## braufrau (16/2/09)

Thanks wabster. I'm totally obsessing about Andrew's blue at the moment. I have these memories of shropshire blue, bought from fortnum and mason last year and man! there is nothing like that in australia ... so now I'm on a mission!

Been reading through the thread again (i've gotta close down this computer so I can get on with my tasks for the day!) and thought I might add some things ...

1. The blessed cheese website has disappeared ... closed down??? Didn't like that guy anyway!

2. PVC pipe, I have been told, contains lead arsenate, unless you get special arsenic free stuff.

3. I've been told (OK! I don't really know anything yet) that you can make moulds from used fish oil, powerade, whey powder etc. containers. Take the tops and bottoms off to give a smooth cylinder and put in the holes. Actaully, do the holes first so the container doesn't squish.

4. These are the brands of milk I know of in Adelaide which are un-homo ... bd farms (organic, available at some wooolies and foodlands), Murray Valley (available at our greengrocers), Fleurieu (available at the sunday farmers markte at wayville).

5. Australia wide, there's parmalat.

6. In the adelaide hills there's a secret palce that sells unpasteurised milk. Also, in Melb. you can get it at hippy stores at bath milk from time to time. I can find out the store if anyone is interested.

And here is my pickie from fortnum and mason.
Look at those rinds!


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## braufrau (16/2/09)

Oh dear! Here's an idea ... beer washed cheese!

http://saxelbycheese.blogspot.com/2007/03/...-come-true.html

and of course chimay do this!

http://www.igourmet.com/shoppe/prodview.aspx?prod=109S

Stinky washed rind cheese! :icon_drool2:


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## AndrewQLD (16/2/09)

braufrau said:


> Oh dear! Here's an idea ... beer washed cheese!
> 
> http://saxelbycheese.blogspot.com/2007/03/...-come-true.html
> 
> ...



You have been bitten by the bug without doubt Braufrau, the blue style cheeses were the first ones I started out with and I found them just as easy to make as the camembert, but I just LOVE the blues.
Plenty of good info on the sausagemakers.org website as they have a large section for cheesemaking.

The molds can be made from just about anything, even canned fruit cans.

I hope we get to see some pics of your cheese as it matures, keep us informed.

Andrew


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## braufrau (16/2/09)

Ah well .. some logistical things to overcome first. Like getting a press.

I've got this idea bumbling in my head now .. my head has been full of cheese (that doesn't sound nice does it? ) all day ...
that I'd like a semi-hard cheese with a natural rind.
so what do you think it would be like if I made your stilton recipe without the blue mold?
Pretty good I reckon.
One of the cheeses we had from fortnum and masons (oh I hope I get back there this year!) was cornish yarg.
http://www.thecheeseshed.com/cornish-yarg-11-p.asp

Well I don't know where to get nettles, but that's the sort of cheese I'd like to make .. moist with a fabulous rind.


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## braufrau (16/2/09)

I just found this picky of someone's compost bin full of nettles





It looks just like Cornish Yarg cheese! :lol:


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## capretta (16/2/09)

hahah you so crazy! um just a side note , i use pool chlorine buckets and mature them on knife and fork trays ,upsidedown, modified to fit into the crisper.  enjoy and read up big and get ready for some flavour bombs! i ate some stuff i never would have considered in the past and i think i might force my kids to make cheese at least once so they dont chuck out a kilo of cheese if it has a spot of mould! lol


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## braufrau (17/2/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> pack the curds evenly into 2x 3 1/2 inch diameter molds and press for 12 hours with 5 kilo weights *turning *every couple of hours.



Still obsessing about cheese here .. 
By turn? Do you mean flip end to end?
And if so, how do you get the followers out of the molds?


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## AndrewQLD (17/2/09)

braufrau said:


> Still obsessing about cheese here ..
> By turn? Do you mean flip end to end?
> And if so, how do you get the followers out of the molds?




I wrapped my followers in a bit of glad wrap (they were wood), when it came time to turn/flip I simply grabbed a bit of the loose glad wrap on top of the follower and lifted it out. Flip the mold over onto another draining mat (the cheese will slide down the mold) and put the follower back on the top and add your weight back on.

Cheers
Andrew


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## braufrau (17/2/09)

AndrewQLD said:


> I wrapped my followers in a bit of glad wrap (they were wood), when it came time to turn/flip I simply grabbed a bit of the loose glad wrap on top of the follower and lifted it out. Flip the mold over onto another draining mat (the cheese will slide down the mold) and put the follower back on the top and add your weight back on.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



Oh! Righty-ho then.

How tall are your molds? I'm trying to figure out what volume of mold I need.


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## AndrewQLD (17/2/09)

braufrau said:


> Oh! Righty-ho then.
> 
> How tall are your molds? I'm trying to figure out what volume of mold I need.




Mine are about 15 cm high, but you can go longer than that if you want it just means your cheese truckle will be taller if you fill them to the top with curds. Look at losing about 2/3rd of your height after a light pressing for 12 hrs.

Andrew


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## JonnyAnchovy (20/2/09)

just discovered this thread! I've done a few batches of camembert so far (all turned out really supurb - if a little too runny).

Was wondering if anyone has managed to source/use unpasturised/unhomoginised milk? apparently it works a treat, if it doesn't kill you.....


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## vertigo (23/2/09)

Hi guys, I wasn't sure if it was ok to talk about chesses on the forum until now. I've made three Camembert chesses so far. The last two chesse never ever fully ripen. Why would this be so? (they were just a bit too hard in the middle, tasted ok). The chesses that I'm ripening now, started getting some orange colour coming through. Any reasons that I could for solving this?, or is this in fact going to be better. I'm still on the waiting list at my local hospital, just in case.


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## capretta (24/2/09)

i believe i asked a question on orange mould a few pages ago, there is some good info if you read the whole thread  its non toxic and seems to be a bacteria off your skin. often found in washed rind cheese it imparts a stinky feet style flavour. once its on there there is not much you can do if you dont like that style. luckily i do!


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (24/2/09)

braufrau said:


> Thanks wabster. I'm totally obsessing about Andrew's blue at the moment. I have these memories of shropshire blue, bought from fortnum and mason last year and man! there is nothing like that in australia ... so now I'm on a mission!



braufrau, The Smelly Cheese Shop in the Central Markets has the Shropshire Blue if you are looking for it.

C&B
TDA


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## vertigo (24/2/09)

> i believe i asked a question on orange mould a few pages ago, there is some good info if you read the whole thread


Yeap, I have read it again. Sweet thread topic. Well the mold on the side, is't showing much?. yet! I don't know about salting the chesse, but good, great info helps.


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## vertigo (25/2/09)

> often found in washed rind cheese it imparts a stinky feet style flavour. once its on there there is not much you can do if you dont like that style. luckily i do!


I found that the last two batches, had a tasting of a blue and an after taste of camembert. Very tastly, but very weird. The chesse's had a light mould cover, some of them leaked yellow stuff. All Tasted OK, but I could tell that I did something wrong..Oh well, I a tried it and not dead.


> Between making beer/bread/snags/pasta/pizza im struggling to find motivation to go to work


I feel your pain. My boss said that my chesse's taste good, so I think I'm off the hook..


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## Burchman82 (28/4/09)

hey guys,
Ive spent the last few hours perusing this thread and discussing it with the girl, we're keen to get some blue cheeses down! im thinking of getting the blue kit from cheeslinks.com.au, but im still a bit vaugue on the actual process. is it the same for blue as the cam's that you guys are making?
is there a real good tutorial with explanations on WHY each step is occuring etc?
ill be using a spare bar fridge once i get my new kegerator for the cellaring (also using a spare fridgemate i got lying about)


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## /// (18/5/09)

Heya Fella's

A bit late on this thread, but there you go. With Capretta's assistance, we held 'The Great Cheese Massacre 09' as part Big Ray Day this year. Perhaps it was not the best idea making cheese on a day where plenty of beer is made and drunk ... as well as protein cooked and ate .... and lots of stories from Ray, but we got there in the end.

On the day i had no idea where things would end up, and with alot of patience from Cam we got some curds mixed with some mould from a blue Cam bought. If the cheese makes it out the other end that will be a thing to behold, anyways at about 3.5 weeks old it is half way there.

After a slow start and a change of maturing vessel, the cheese is developing blue mould (and hence leading to a question) and white fluffy mould. This white fluffy stuff looks like cotton wool and is starting to take over the skin of the cheese. I am not sure if this is bad or good, and if I should remove or relax with a beer in hand? I would take a pic but since moving the cable for the camera is somewhere in a box somewhere...

Thanks for the good thread here to, i dont think i have ever started reading a long thread and made it all the way thru till this one ....

Scotty


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## /// (22/5/09)

Just a pic of maturing cheese ... umm is the white fluffy mold bad??

Scotty


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## wabster (22/5/09)

I personally have no idea if it is good or bad but have a real sense that it ain't right frankly.

Did the cheese get salted after being made? Was it dried/drained properly?

I really hope for you that it IS OK 

Cheerz Wabster


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## wabster (22/5/09)

On the subject of blues or stinkies we made our first lot of cheese that wasn't Camembert Monday.

Over the weekend dropped in to Country Brewer at Casula and got some Rocqueforti mould. Craig there advised to just make it the same way one does Camembert, just use the different mould.

So I now have 4 large rounds of cheese, madly trying to dry them in this humid weather. I reckon the first salting was lost to moisture run off, so have resalted them to try and keep airborne bugs at bay. 

The rounds are sure bulkier than Camemberts and softer/rubberier and I'm worried when turning them they will just fall apart but haven't yet - fingers crossed. The are noticeably bigger, the tray that usually holds 4 camemberts won't hold these 4.

Initially there was little smell from them, but now they are emitting the characteristic smell.

I'll take a few photos over the next week or so and if the stuff looks the goods I'll let you know,

Cheerz Wabster.


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## capretta (22/5/09)

/// said:


> Just a pic of maturing cheese ... umm is the white fluffy mold bad??
> 
> Scotty


hahah oh lord, the great cheese massacre of 09 continues apace! 

heavens knows what the white mold is but the darker stuff doesnt look too crash hot. that bottom round looks really slimy, which is a bad thing. you should be getting healthy mold growth but i just had a closer look at the photos and it looks like you spilled water on the top of the cheese. bit hard to say mate, but the mold that i thought was a healthyish green looks a little less healthy in these photos. but in for a penny in for a pound ay! there is nothing you can do to change the culture of mold now so... other than ride it out your other option is to bin it. why dont you try cutting up the mongo round and seeing what the inside looks like. if it looks ok and smells right, give it a small taste. you mouth will tell you if youre on the right track!


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## /// (23/5/09)

Ahhh, i think karma may be catching up with us on this one. Sooo, will try it next week. One never knows....


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## /// (25/5/09)

So I gave te cheese a good wash off this morning and tried the thin piece. It has a taste of mould, and I dont reckon the mould we want. I have a pretty good idea of what black mould tastes like as I have a shower in it every 3 months when I clean our 2800l FV's ....

But, besides the mould I reckon I have well screwed up the salt addition (as in too much). Ahh well, consumables ordered from cheese links last night, i hope they will arrive before saturday when I will punch out another batch .... this time in better conditions ....


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## wabster (25/5/09)

Here are some photos of the latest cheese creation, as mentioned above.

The first one is at 4 days after taking out of the moulds.


​The second one is today, a week after coming out of the moulds. There is a good cover of mould on the outside and the smell is pretty good.


​One question I have of the more experience here. How should I wrap these cheeses, in the same breathing cello that we use for camembert, or something that doesn't allow permeation of air?

Any help appreciated as these critters are due to go into the fridge for a few weeks maturation anytime now.

Cheerz Wabster.


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## kirem (28/5/09)

ordered some gear to make parmesan/romano style, washed rind and white mould from cheeselinks today.

I used to make A LOT of white and blue mould cheese, gave most of it away and the punters kept coming back for more.

now that I live in the desert and not a dairy herd to be seen, 50 years ago I'd be wondering which one to pick :-(

I'll have to use supermarket milk and CaCl.

I am spending too much on cheese, so it is time to make my own again

Do we need a better word/phrase for parmesan? it is like calling sparkling wine champagne, it just isn't the same thing.''

I love blue mould cheese, a good one better than any other cheese, I did a vintage in France in 2005 and the variety of cheese available from a supermarket was superb.

Blue cheese now gives me very strange dreams and even worse I normally remember them. I avoid it, because some the dreams are down right disturbing.


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## fraser_john (28/5/09)

kirem said:


> Blue cheese now gives me very strange dreams and even worse I normally remember them. I avoid it, because some the dreams are down right disturbing.



That is a concern, but kind of funny as well!!! Being lactose intollerant, you reckon I could make a good cheese using lactose free milk?


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## /// (7/6/09)

Take II on the Blue Cheese gig.

These are a week old. Had issues with the set and had to add more rennet. (and after a call to Capretta at 10am on a sunday, poor bastard...). Also had too mould mould culture go in, the dropper was clogged and so we had a squirt rather than 6 drops. Smells heaps better than the Great Cheese Massacare '09 ....

Anyways, hopefully better progress with this one!

Scotty


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## beerbrewer76543 (15/6/09)

I just came across this thread and thought: oh hell yes!

I messaged my girlfriend (who hates cheese) to tell her I'll be making some blue vein soon... Her response wasn't exactly supportive! :lol:


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/6/09)

L_Bomb said:


> I just came across this thread and thought: oh hell yes!
> 
> I messaged my girlfriend (who hates cheese) to tell her I'll be making some blue vein soon... Her response wasn't exactly supportive! :lol:


I think I like your girl friend ! BV is not cheese its fungus on steroids.  At least present her a with a Pont L'eveque or St Nectaire ,Talleggio . "NICE". Very good to cook with, you can swing her!
GB


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## Burchman82 (9/7/09)

hey guys,
the girl and i did our 1st blue-vein cheese a cpl of weeks ago and followed all the instructions given by cheeselinks and also this forum. We are controlling the temp in a small beer fridge with a fridgemate. Currently have it sitting at 12deg since the 30/6/09, it is developing a nice dark aqua coloured mold on the outside. Its starting to smell my room up a little, is this normal? its not a particularly bad smell, just a smell.... which is obviously coming from the cheese.
thoughts?


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## AndrewQLD (9/7/09)

Sounds about right to me, love the pungent smell of a good blue, don't let it dry out to much and don't let it get to moist or the skin will fall off and it will be too runny.
Post a pic when you are digging in.

Andrew


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## Burchman82 (9/7/09)

ive taken photos of every interaction so far, so ill collate them and post whatever results happen at the end!
its definatly not too dry, the fridge maintains a bit of moisture naturally, and theres a small amount of condensation on the decor containers lid (which is cracked open)


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## porky (26/11/09)

Wife went to a cheese making course two weeks ago. 

Monday she had 34 liters of non homogenized milk delivered here to the house.
She has been making cheese every day this week.

Some pics

This is cheddar that was made in the class.





This is cheddar in the press at home





This is mozzarella for our pizza. We now make the sauce, base, sausage and the cheese. 
I need to make peperoni some day.




Feta






Camembert





She has also made Ricotta, no pics.

We will make cheddar every month so we will have a supply once they are aged. 
We will try them at three months and six months and a year. The longer they age the sharper they get.
Over a year is considered Vintage.

Cheers,
Bud


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## porky (26/11/09)

Here is Ricotta,
a by product of making cheddar.

Heated in double boiler, vinegar added to form the curds.


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## capretta (26/11/09)

some one has caught the bug!


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## Lindsay Dive (26/11/09)

It's also very easy to lose the bug once you realise that that the milk you purchase can be fiddled with 'other' products, like fillers (how in the name of Christ does that work?) that are not conducive to making good cheese.

I'm having a spell and a good think.

I want a cow.


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## capretta (27/11/09)

were you buying parmalat?


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## porky (27/11/09)

We got the milk from Baffle Creek dairy. They are about 30k from us.

The freshest, purest milk we can get. 

Able to buy it not homogenized as well.

Ordered on Sunday, production run on Monday morning, delivered to our door Monday afternoon.

Not quite ready to get a cow yet  

bud


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## wabster (27/11/09)

Yeah I dunno whether it is that supermarket milk is being treated with extra heat during pasteurisation to increase shelf life or if it is the use of Permeate to supposedly keep milk consistent in butter fat or whatever, but my success rate with my regular camembert making is dropping to near 1 in 5 batches.

The "unsuccessful" batches are nicely shaped and taste great, but are hard, and never achieve that unctuous sloppiness a good ripe camembert should have.

I have all but given up making my wonderful cheese, and am thinking of going to the Farmers Markets at Everleigh (Redfern) and tracking down the milk vendors there, and seeing if I can go out to their farm and buy milk directly. I don't care if they have to pasteurise it, but would prefer non homogenised. I'm sure there are places within a short drive out of Sydney metro where I can get fresh, unadulterated milk.

I watched or read about the TV show that "exposed" the use of permeate in commercial milk production, here is a link to a refutation http://www.non-sense.com.au/joomla/index.p...e&Itemid=37 but I still feel uncomfortable with the concept that milk has to be fiddled with to be commercially viable. Why the bloody hell can't I buy plain fresh pure pasteurised milk?

Cheerz Wabster.


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## capretta (27/11/09)

i have done a few washed rinds that were aged for approx 2.5 months and they never went particularly gooey, soft but not runny. i always buy dairy farmers (not the supermarket brands) and do 50 /50 with parmalat. do you think that might be one of the problems? i just assumed i was messing up a procedure somewhere..


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## Lindsay Dive (27/11/09)

That's the shit, Permeate, and the mongrels don't have to let you know if it is in the milk or not.

If you decide to use an organic milk, the cost of the milk blows the whole deal out of the water.


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## Airgead (27/11/09)

wabster said:


> Why the bloody hell can't I buy plain fresh pure pasteurised milk?
> 
> Cheerz Wabster.



You can. because I do. In Sydney anyway.

Look up Lettucedeliver.com.au and they will deliver un-homogenised milk to your door. Several diferent varieties thereof...

http://lettucedeliver.com.au/shop/Inventor...D5-04B4947798B1

Ok it is a bit pricey but it is available.


----------



## capretta (27/11/09)

i think parmalat from the supermarket is cheaper than that, but yeah, there are a few options. just not "cheap" ones..

how much did you pick up your milk for budwiser?


----------



## porky (27/11/09)

capretta said:


> how much did you pick up your milk for budwiser?




We paid $1.70per litre delivered to the house.
We got wholesale price as long as we bought over 30L.

In the shops in town it sells for $2.05 per L.

Bud


----------



## capretta (27/11/09)

nice! B) yeah i can get the parmalat for 2.25 on special..


----------



## Lindsay Dive (29/11/09)

I note with interest that there are few brands of milk that now have the words "Natural and Additive Free" printed on the label. Looks as though the exposure of these mongrels adding Permeate to their milk has sunk in.


----------



## wabster (6/12/09)

Airgead said:


> You can. because I do. In Sydney anyway.
> 
> Look up Lettucedeliver.com.au and they will deliver un-homogenised milk to your door. Several diferent varieties thereof...
> 
> ...



Thanks for that post Airgead I have contacted them and they are over at Homebush, so I can have milk delivered when they do my area, Tuesdays from memory, or I can order and go and collect it which isn't too much of a hassle.

On the weblink http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=455784 to the article about the Permeate in milk, there are a number of milks listed as not containing it, viz 
* PERMEATE FREE MILK:*



* Paul's Parmalat Organic Milk (Available Australia-wide)*<li>*
* <li>* Pura Gold Brand (Available Australia-wide)*<li>*
* <li>* Country Valley Milk (stockists can be found at: www.countryvalley.com.au)*<li>*
* <li>* Norco milk (Available in Brisbane, the Gold Coast and northern NSW)*<li>*
*<li>* A2 milk (Available Australia-wide) *
The Country Valley is the milk that is sold at Everleigh (Redfern) markets too. I have a friend who lives at Bowral and comes to visit a relative close by so could ask her to buy me 6 litres when she comes here.

However in the short term I am going to go to Woolies/Coles and see if they have the Pura and Parmalat milks and try them. I've missed my Xmas deadline now, so there is no hurry any more.

Cheerz to all, Wabster.


----------



## Chad (15/1/10)

I ordered my first set of ingredients today, to make a Blue, Gouda and Cheddar.

How long can these be stored for? I haven't been able to find any exact information, but it would seem that as long as the rind isn't broken then it should keep for quite some time, 12+ months. It would also seem as though waxing or vacuum sealing will also help extend longevity.


----------



## komodo (16/1/10)

Bloody hell 34 Litres! Did you just go upto the dairy and ask if you could buy direct? did you have to supply the container?

I made some camembert over the holidays about 3 weeks ago. They got a nice covering in white mould and then after the 10 days I wrapped them. How long should it take before they are ready to eat? At this stage they seem quite firm other than just aroudn the edges is a little soft but not like I would expect when ripe. I'm thinking about another 2 weeks minimum?

Seems I'm more impatient with my cheese than I ever have been with beer LOL


----------



## porky (16/1/10)

Komodo said:


> Bloody hell 34 Litres! Did you just go upto the dairy and ask if you could buy direct? did you have to supply the container?



We did buy direct. Called them on the phone, just had to buy over 30 litres.
No, didn't have to supply the container. They are close to here so droped off on their way by.



> I made some camembert over the holidays about 3 weeks ago. They got a nice covering in white mould and then after the 10 days I wrapped them. How long should it take before they are ready to eat?



Another month should be good. 
45 to 60 days from when it was made.
Remove from fridge and get to room temp...feel it for softness. Cut a small wedge and if it's as "runny" as YOU want it...then eat it. 
If you want more liquid centre then put the wedge back in and re wrap it... Leave for another week or two. 
Like waiting on a good beer to age.

Cheers,
bud


----------



## komodo (18/1/10)

Hrmmm In the fridge its rock hard.
Out of the fridge and let it warm to room temp and its really squishy...


----------



## Chad (27/3/10)

I'm currently in the process of making my first blue cheese. Although I have a problem in that the curd doesn't seem to be setting.
I've got a small 5L batch, with 3L unhomogenised, and 2L homogenised. I raised it to 31deg and added the ingredients.

Could my thermometer be out and I didn't raise the temp enough?


----------



## Chad (27/3/10)

It must have been too low a temperature. I put it on the heat to raise a few degrees and it curdled quickly. I had to stir to distribute the heat so the curds aren't nice and tight as one would like, but at least something happened.

It's currently draining in the cheese cloth, and I still got a good volume in the end. For a first attempt, I'm reasonably happy at the moment.


----------



## Chad (28/3/10)

Alright, here's what I ended up with this morning. It's now in the maturation fridge at 10c.


----------



## capretta (28/3/10)

yeah, i found sometimes i wouldnt get a decent set and had to bump it up a bit. maybe its a variation in rennet or thermometer..


----------



## AndrewQLD (21/4/10)

Finally dusted off the cheese making gear and had an attempt at Cows Milk Feta, so far it looks and tastes great, made a whey brine from the leftover whey and they are brining as I type.







Andrew


----------



## AndrewQLD (22/4/10)

Had a go at the 30 minute Mozzarella recipe this morning, turned out ok, next time i'll add the Lipase for a bit more flavor. Very easy to make.

Balls formed and slice for a taste



On this mornings breakfast




Andrew


----------



## capretta (22/4/10)

lookin good andrew! i fell out of the cheeses for a little while after the last 3 batches ended up in the bin! poor temperature control is to blame, i may need a temp rite or something. also that fridge is also my brew fridge which doesnt help


----------



## AndrewQLD (28/4/10)

capretta said:


> lookin good andrew! i fell out of the cheeses for a little while after the last 3 batches ended up in the bin! poor temperature control is to blame, i may need a temp rite or something. also that fridge is also my brew fridge which doesnt help



Get yourself a little dorm fridge capretta perfect size for a maturing cave. These little babies are about to go in mine now.


----------



## Chad (28/4/10)

Here are my furry little bastards.


----------



## AndrewQLD (29/4/10)

Chad said:


> Here are my furry little bastards.
> View attachment 37628



They look great Chad, have you needled them and how old are they?

Andrew


----------



## BjornJ (6/5/10)

I'm trying cheesemaking for the first time ever tonight.

Trying that panir recipe someone linked to here: http://www.kurma.net/ingredients/i5.html 
as it requires only full cream milk and a lemon.

Heating the milk while typing, will see how it turns out!

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## BjornJ (6/5/10)

Hmm.. guess I used to little lemon juice to get the milk to curdle?

I bought 2 liters of unhomogenized full cream milk from Coles and a lemon.

Heated the milk while stirring all the time until it boiled and more or less foamed over  

Then poured in the juice of a lemon tablespoon by tablespoon. Ended up putting in the juice I got from not-to-thoroughly squeezing a lemon, say 4 table spoons. Lowered the heat before adding lemon juice, and stirred slowly with a wooden spoon. After a minute nothing had happened, onto the heat a little while before taking it off and stirring again. Little pieces of "clay" starting folding and I kept stirring for a little while before leaving it on the benchtop for 20 mins.
Poured the results into a tea towel rinsed in water and squeezed out as much water as possible, but I clearly got less than I should have?

Rather than getting watery/green whey with pieces of cheese, I got milk with small pieces of cheese.
Maybe I should have added even more lemon juice, no idea..

Anyway, I squeezed and squeezed before finally ending up with a ball of cheese half the size of my fist. Probably didn't help that I lost a quarter of the cheese squeezing the towel resulting in a cheese-spray nicely decorating the kitchen window!


I seasoned half of the cheese with basil and garlic salt before frying it in some butter and olive oil and kept the last half as it was, adding just a little salt.

It tastes great!
Fresh, nice taste. Kind of like ricotta, maybe?

Enjoyed the fruits of my labour on the couch with some vintage cheddar, chives/garlic cream cheese. A piece of black rye bread and some roasted panini and some ghurkins, not to forget my very own Darker Golden Ale. mmmm... beer, bread and cheese.. :lol: 








It was great fun making my own cheese, will definetly try it again!
Maybe next time I'll use citric acid or something to make sure I add enough acid to get the milk to curdle.

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## capretta (6/5/10)

ive used vinegar before with good results, id say maybe your temp wasnt high enough? also you probably didnt use enough juice.. it is messy too! nothing you can do about that!


----------



## Thirsty Boy (7/5/10)

+1 - if you run out of lemon juice white vinegar will do the trick.

Still - you got to eat cheese you made yourself. Kinda cool isn't it?


----------



## BjornJ (7/5/10)

Very cool, indeed!

Was very easy and if I got less cheese than I should have, I still got to chill with a beer and a couple of different cheeses where I had made one myself :lol: 


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## Chad (9/5/10)

AndrewQLD said:


> They look great Chad, have you needled them and how old are they?
> 
> Andrew


Haven't needled yet. The first batch should have been done this weekend, but I was away for most of it, so I will do it next weekend.
The other is about a week younger.


----------



## AndrewQLD (19/5/10)

Pressing another Colby, used non Homogenized milk this time, amazing the difference from homogenized. Much tighter and firmer curds although I think I over did the Annatto a little. First time using this press as well so the results should be interesting.

Part way through the stir



Molding up



First press


----------



## redunderthebed (19/5/10)

Can you make pommie cheese like red leicester and double gloucester.

If so i might have a go. :icon_drool2:


----------



## Thirsty Boy (20/5/10)

sure can

Rikki Carrol's book Home Cheesemaking has a recipe for leicester. Very similar process to cheddar making


----------



## gregs (13/7/10)

Andrew when do I get a cheese making lesson, the blues you showed me the other day left me salivating. :icon_drool2: 

Would love to know more. 

Imagine a cheese salami and beer night :beer:


----------



## komodo (13/7/10)

Thats some fricken hardcore looking cheese press AndrewQLD! Where does one get an actuator (or what ever that this is) to make something like that?


----------



## AndrewQLD (14/7/10)

gregs said:


> Andrew when do I get a cheese making lesson, the blues you showed me the other day left me salivating. :icon_drool2:
> 
> Would love to know more.
> 
> Imagine a cheese salami and beer night :beer:



Bring it on Greg, how about a Camembert and Blue cheese making day, we'll have to put our heads together and organise something.
Salami and cheese = heaven.



Komodo said:


> Thats some fricken hardcore looking cheese press AndrewQLD! Where does one get an actuator (or what ever that this is) to make something like that?



It's a pneumatic cylinder valve similar to this and is actuated by air pressure or as in my case Co2 pressure. The benefit of this type of press is that it's small and compact and will maintain a _constant_ positive pressure as the whey is expelled from the cheese.

Cheers
Andrew


----------



## gregs (14/7/10)

Andrew we will have to organise something soon so lets put the wheels in motion. I propose that we have a day eating our home made small goods and drinking beer paired with the food. 

Like nibbles and beer, so we need to brew what we think will go with the food groupings, everything on the table must be homemade or home grown.

What do you say?

gregs. :icon_cheers:


----------



## AndrewQLD (14/7/10)

I'm in, what kind of time frame are you thinking, I'd like to get some pickled onions organized as well as some Camembert to go with the blue and Cheddar. Beers, would need some lager/pilsner as well as Ales and a weizen is great with a strong blue cheese. What goes with salami and cured meats?

Andrew


----------



## gregs (14/7/10)

AndrewQLD said:


> I'm in, what kind of time frame are you thinking, I'd like to get some pickled onions organized as well as some Camembert to go with the blue and Cheddar. Beers, would need some lager/pilsner as well as Ales and a weizen is great with a strong blue cheese. What goes with salami and cured meats?
> 
> Andrew



Andrew, the time frame would depend on what we have available from now and what volume we have. Also depends on what people can contribute, adhering to the theme would mean people may need time to produce their wares but this doesnt mean it has to be an extravagant night.

As for beer and cured meats pairings, for me its the summer beers, but would have to suggest that throughout the world would be varied. Something Cascade or Nelson Sauv but whatever, how about producing a dessert beer and someone making something to go with it, can simplify it for those who are not into home produce.

I feel this could be so simple it would be a blast. Also do you think home butchered meat would be in the theme?


----------



## probablynathan (14/7/10)

I have been thinking about making my own cheeses ever since I saw Mathew Evans do it on the gourmet farmer on SBS, but reading this tread and seeing the pics has settled it and I have ordered the Blue/Camembert/Cheddar kit from Cheeselinks.

Thanks for the great thread guys. Can't wait to get started.


----------



## AndrewQLD (15/7/10)

gregs said:


> Andrew, the time frame would depend on what we have available from now and what volume we have. Also depends on what people can contribute, adhering to the theme would mean people may need time to produce their wares but this doesn't mean it has to be an extravagant night.
> 
> As for beer and cured meats pairings, for me it's the summer beers, but would have to suggest that throughout the world would be varied. Something Cascade or Nelson Sauv but whatever, how about producing a dessert beer and someone making something to go with it, can simplify it for those who are not into home produce.
> 
> I feel this could be so simple it would be a blast. Also do you think home butchered meat would be in the theme?



Got the dessert beer sorted gregs, I have a sweet Belgian Strong Dark Ale @ 10% that should go well, I think a 100% Nelson Sauv beer would be the go for the salami and prosciutto entree and maybe an APA or smoky stout with some nice BBQ ribs, the home butchered meat would be the icing on the cake.

Andrew


----------



## gregs (15/7/10)

AndrewQLD said:


> Got the dessert beer sorted gregs, I have a sweet Belgian Strong Dark Ale @ 10% that should go well, I think a 100% Nelson Sauv beer would be the go for the salami and prosciutto entree and maybe an APA or smoky stout with some nice BBQ ribs, the home butchered meat would be the icing on the cake.
> 
> Andrew



Andrew, we need to work on a date for this to happen, I think it would be good if people bring whatever they like but it would be great to have a couple of specified beer and food pairings worked out prior. This would add an extra dimension to our brewing process. It would certainly be a learning curve and an interesting discussion point for the day/ night. 

Kev may have to drink a hole keg before he decides whether or not its the right pairing or not but thats ok we love him.


----------



## AndrewQLD (16/7/10)

The Blues are coming along nicely, 2 pics, day 1 and day 7.


----------



## gregs (16/7/10)

AndrewQLD said:


> The Blues are coming along nicely, 2 pics, day 1 and day 7.
> 
> View attachment 39439
> View attachment 39440



This is exceptional, Im gob smacked when can we taste some? :icon_drool2:


----------



## peted27 (1/1/11)

couple of questions for you guys



can starsan be used for cheese making?? or should i use something else


when i open up the packet of freeze dried culture, what should i do once i take out enough for my starter, put it in a sanitised jar in the freezer??




cheers


Pete


----------



## capretta (1/1/11)

hey dude, as far as i know the procedure is the same, cant see any reason not to use your normal sanitisation routine. my cultures i kept in the packet and sealed it in a ziplock bag in the freezer. B)


----------



## peted27 (1/1/11)

capretta said:


> hey dude, as far as i know the procedure is the same, cant see any reason not to use your normal sanitisation routine. my cultures i kept in the packet and sealed it in a ziplock bag in the freezer. B)





ok cool. just wasnt sure if the cheese cultures would be killed by starsan... will triple check before i use it :-D


thanks


----------



## Tony (19/2/11)

Im really starting to look into this and gear up...... and found this forum and joined.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php

cheers


----------



## yardy (21/10/11)

just bought our first cheese kit B) 

i can feel another obsession coming on....


----------



## thelastspud (22/10/11)

It'll be good to see some action on this thread again. post pics when you can yardy


----------



## capretta (22/10/11)

hey all, thought id post some pics of a 3 week old blue i did as an experiment with $2 coles milk. the break was ok, i used a farmhouse culture and the strong blue spores from cheeselinks, and have been storing them in tupperware at 13 degrees.. they smell fairly ripe  and ive been away heaps so i only got to peirce them today. i cut the smaller one open for a taste test, probably a little too much ammonia taste to be a comp winner, but more than edible. anyone have any tips for reducing ammonia flavour? also it looks like p. candidum has got in there somewhere, not too worried about that


----------



## capretta (22/10/11)




----------



## seamad (23/10/11)

Since I have been having all the fun brewing my partner has decided to start cheese making.

Made her a simple cheese press with 5:1 lever arm. Will soon have some proper pulleys to increase load by 4:1. The pulley in the photo is just a cheap one I use to hoist the bag..

Recently had a farm stay for the kids which they really loved. The fantastic farmer gave us about 8.5 L of her cows milk to take home, so decided to make some raw milk cheese.

Only got this 270g block from the first 4 L, but this cow was weaning.

Got the beginning of 3 epoisse from the remainder ( different cow and much creamier). They will begin their washing regime in a couple of days.


----------



## yardy (23/10/11)

nice job on the press mate, the cheeses look great also, hope ours go ok :icon_cheers: 

we are doing our first kit today, one of these mad millie

are there any plans/drawings online for the press or did you make it from scratch ?

cheers

Yard

feel like a noob kicking off with a tin of goo and 2 kilos of sugar


----------



## capretta (23/10/11)

i myself used some dumbell weights in food grade plastic bags on top for my light press. didnt look very beautiful but it did the job


----------



## seamad (23/10/11)

Yardy,

Just built it from scratch.

Got a chopping board from woolies with drainage grooves for ten bucks, figured 280 square looked ok. That meant I needed the compression arm to be 140 mm from pivot point,which gives an arm length of 700 to give the 5:1 ratio. Then need to make base long enough zo it wont tip over when loaded. All the ones i had seen were square or rectangle zhaped which i thought are a bit boring, also i wanted to use light wr cedar for frame so triangle shape a bit stiffer.
In the good books now.
Cheers

Sean


----------



## seamad (23/10/11)

capretta Posted Today, 02:25 PM
i myself used some dumbell weights in food grade plastic bags on top for my light press. didnt look very beautiful but it did the job wink.gif


I started this way too but found to make cheddars you need a lot of pressure. The best way to achieve this is a lever arm or the very nice looking pneumatic press like Andrew QLD has.

Stated pressures for various cheeses varies widely dependent on the source. The best cheese making site I've found for a very technical view is this:

http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/cheese/welcom.htm

This is a uni site aimed at professional cheesemakers so it is very technical, but I just like to know as much info as I can on stuff like this, a bit like all grain brewing.

The good Prof says on this site that cheddars need 0.4kg/cm2 to start then 24 hr @ 1.4kg/cm2. For a small 10cm mould that means @ 110kg, obviously a lot more for bigger moulds.

Not saying you can't make a good cheese without high pressure though, just it may be better with it.

cheers

Sean


----------



## seamad (23/10/11)

Yardy, we started with that kit too. Very good to start with. Check out cheeselinks for more stuff when you get a bit of practice.

If you haven't got a cheese making book check this one out:

http://www.artisancheesemakingathome.com/


We've got this one and the Rikki Carrol one, but IMO this one is heaps better. A bit more in depth plus a lot more tasty recipes too.

cheers

Sean


----------



## yardy (23/10/11)

seamad said:


> Yardy,
> 
> Just built it from scratch.
> 
> ...






seamad said:


> Yardy, we started with that kit too. Very good to start with. Check out cheeselinks for more stuff when you get a bit of practice.
> 
> If you haven't got a cheese making book check this one out:
> 
> ...



Thanks Sean, we looked at the books online yesterday and had bookmarked that one so we'll get it, saw it for about $14 somewhere :icon_cheers: 

we weren't sure if that was a decent kit or not so that's reassuring to know :icon_cheers: 

cheers

Yard

will probably post a pic of a horribly disfigured cheese later on in the week


----------



## Pollux (23/10/11)

Pollux's wife here  (made my first mozzarella yesterday and drooling at the blues in this thread!), what do you guys use to wrap your blues/bries etc? is it just regular aluminium foil? so tempted to buy some good quality blue and keep a chunk to make a yummy blue... and thanks for all the tips about different types of milk, thinking I might see if I can hunt down some of the "cleopatra's bathing milk" (raw milk  )to work with... if not, then I'll try the parmalat stuff.. thanks in advance (and thanks to my hubby for letting me on here )


----------



## seamad (24/10/11)

Hello pollux' wife,
Have a look at cheeselinks, they have special paper for wrapping cheese plus a good range of molds/ moulds

Cheers
Sean


----------



## Pollux (24/10/11)

thanks for the heads up, will check them out..

cheers, Ang, (Pollux's wife)


----------



## keezawitch (2/2/12)

Pollux said:


> Pollux's wife here  (made my first mozzarella yesterday and drooling at the blues in this thread!), what do you guys use to wrap your blues/bries etc? is it just regular aluminium foil? so tempted to buy some good quality blue and keep a chunk to make a yummy blue... and thanks for all the tips about different types of milk, thinking I might see if I can hunt down some of the "cleopatra's bathing milk" (raw milk  )to work with... if not, then I'll try the parmalat stuff.. thanks in advance (and thanks to my hubby for letting me on here  )



Hi, my home cheesemaking book shows you how to wrap your cheeses using sterile strips of line, you cut 2 rounds slightly larger than cheese, cut strips slightly wider then put top and bottom on and wrap strips around sides. hope that helps.


----------



## keezawitch (2/2/12)

Hi, I am new to this forum, jioned up because I have started to brew and to my delight one of the members told me about this cheese thread, its great I have started making cheeses from fresh goat milk as I have a milking goat and find it a great way to use the milk up, I anyone is interested there is a new cheese making supply shop just opened in nth sydney, it has an online shop also, the name is cheesemakingworks. I havent brought any suppliers through them but thinking about it. happy cheese making


----------



## jyo (2/2/12)

I wish I had not found this thread.....

Those cheeses look great BTW!


----------



## keezawitch (3/2/12)

jyo said:


> I wish I had not found this thread.....
> 
> Those cheeses look great BTW!



make you drool don't they


----------



## keezawitch (6/2/12)

Tony said:


> Im really starting to look into this and gear up...... and found this forum and joined.
> 
> http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php
> 
> ...


----------



## Tommu-Hiid (9/2/12)

I have no idea if this is a good price or not but just came across this:

Aroma Diffuser & Humidifier $35


----------



## keezawitch (14/2/12)

I have just waxed my first goatmilk cheddar, god i hope it tastes good.


----------



## manticle (14/2/12)

keezawitch said:


> I have just waxed my first goat.




Damn hairy goats. Hope it was back, crack, and sack. Don't want any spider legs at the beach.


----------



## brettprevans (14/2/12)

I recon a bulk buy on cheese making gear would get a big response on here. I know id be interestrd


----------



## benno1973 (15/2/12)

keezawitch said:


> I have just waxed my first goatmilk cheddar, god i hope it tastes good.



Nice one! Was it the recipe out of the Home Cheesemaking Book by Ricki Carroll? I'm getting 10L of whole goats milk next week and I'm keen to try that recipe. I just made a farmhouse cheddar on the weekend, about to wax it tomorrow...


----------



## ledgenko (15/2/12)

manticle said:


> Damn hairy goats. Hope it was back, crack, and sack. Don't want any spider legs at the beach.





Pubes make eating cheese wrong !!!


----------



## keezawitch (15/2/12)

manticle said:


> Damn hairy goats. Hope it was back, crack, and sack. Don't want any spider legs at the beach.



well that gave me a laugh :lol:


----------



## manticle (15/2/12)

Good.

Getting very interested in adding cheesemaking to my list of things.

Last year I made my own fettucine to accompany a carbonara made with my own pancetta, eggs from a relative's backyard and home grown parsley (cream, garlic and parmesan bought). The more ingredients I can contribute either locally or from my own hands, the happier I am with the results.

So - next winter - cheese and salami.


----------



## keezawitch (15/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Nice one! Was it the recipe out of the Home Cheesemaking Book by Ricki Carroll? I'm getting 10L of whole goats milk next week and I'm keen to try that recipe. I just made a farmhouse cheddar on the weekend, about to wax it tomorrow...




No I still had problem working out how much culture, although I greatly appreciated the conversion. 
The one I used I got off www.allotment.org.uk/allotment_foods/cheese-making/ .
The article is "Making Cheese - Cheddar Cheese by Katie Thear."

There is a whole printable section on cheesemaking and It is in very plan english for dummy me. She gives both types of measurements and I added 1.25ml of Calcium Chloride to increase my yeild.

I used 5 ltres of goat milk and ended up with a 600gram cheese.

Good luck with yours, The goat milk makes a lovely white cheese.


----------



## keezawitch (15/2/12)

citymorgue2 said:


> I recon a bulk buy on cheese making gear would get a big response on here. I know id be interestrd



Baskets bulk buy would be great, hard to find them in nsw so I sent to your end of the country for some for my gbjenet and really should have got more.


----------



## keezawitch (15/2/12)

manticle said:


> Good.
> 
> Getting very interested in adding cheesemaking to my list of things.
> 
> ...



Yum, definately give cheesemaking a go, I have a ball just throwing in different herbs for flavour in the soft variety and i also make a nice alcoholic dried fruit one, cant eat it and drive though  When we kill peppa pig or her babies I want to have a go at curing the meat too. Thinking of homemade cheese, home cured pancetta and home grown figs. All in the nearish future I hope


----------



## benno1973 (16/2/12)

keezawitch said:


> No I still had problem working out how much culture, although I greatly appreciated the conversion.



I tend to ignore her culture amounts and just use the amount specified on the packet. I think it said 1/4tsp per gallon of milk or something like that. It has always worked so far, so I guess I'll continue with that.

Thanks for the link to the cheddar cheese recipe, I'll check it out. I also want to make a soft goats cheese and mould ripen it.

We had home made haloumi, home made pancetta and home brown figs the other day, allstacked and grilled til the fig was caramelised and the haloumi browned up. Tasted great, but there's definitely something extra from having done it yourself...


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## keezawitch (16/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> I tend to ignore her culture amounts and just use the amount specified on the packet. I think it said 1/4tsp per gallon of milk or something like that. It has always worked so far, so I guess I'll continue with that.
> 
> Thanks for the link to the cheddar cheese recipe, I'll check it out. I also want to make a soft goats cheese and mould ripen it.
> 
> We had home made haloumi, home made pancetta and home brown figs the other day, allstacked and grilled til the fig was caramelised and the haloumi browned up. Tasted great, but there's definitely something extra from having done it yourself...


drooling here, was the haloumi hard to make?, I am trying to be patient and wait for dads dark figs to ripen, rain is causing havic with that. I have been concentrating on quick cheeses as I am often time poor, as I am the only driver for daughter in law I often get called in the middle of things, Have you made Quark, i am in love with it so versitial. I use the soft cheese recipe in cheesemaking cookbook and it works well with the flavoured cheese i make. I am thinking of a camb cheese also, better get myself another nanny in milk. Oh give gbjenet(small maltese cheeses) a go if you can get goatmilk they are great freshly made and as they age they harden and are like parm.


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## benno1973 (17/2/12)

Haloumi was easy to make, similar to feta but you need to slowly ramp the temperature up, and then cook the curds after pressing. And it turns out squeaky like haloumi should be!

Yes, quick cheeses are good for me as well. I'm either having to make it with my 2yo around (wanting attention just when the milk needs a bit of attention), or at night after the kids are in bed. It doesn't require a lot of effort, but you do need to be constantly 'around' to monitor it! A bit like brewing I guess...

I would love to try making gbjenet - I can't seem to find a recipe quickly. Do you have one that you could post up?


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## keezawitch (17/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Haloumi was easy to make, similar to feta but you need to slowly ramp the temperature up, and then cook the curds after pressing. And it turns out squeaky like haloumi should be!
> 
> Yes, quick cheeses are good for me as well. I'm either having to make it with my 2yo around (wanting attention just when the milk needs a bit of attention), or at night after the kids are in bed. It doesn't require a lot of effort, but you do need to be constantly 'around' to monitor it! A bit like brewing I guess...
> 
> I would love to try making gbjenet - I can't seem to find a recipe quickly. Do you have one that you could post up?



gbejnet(maltese cheese)

Nice and simple

3 litres goat milk unpasturised if possible)
150ml live yoghurt (i use greek style)
1/2 ml liquid rennet

100g salt for brine (I like sea salt)

Mix the milk and yoghurt, slowly warm to 40 degree celsius, take off heat and keep warm for about 45min.

Mix rennet with a bit of cooled boiled water add to milk gently mix it in, leave for another 45min keeping warm or until you get a clean break.Cut the curds let sit 30min pour off whey and carefully spoon whey into moulds, (I use little baskets I got from cheeselinks and a cheesecloth lined rectangle shape basket) drain for 12 hrs. If you use baskets with nice pattern in bottom after a few hrs gently turn the cheese onto your hand and gently turn over and put back in mould. After 12 hrs you are ready to brine. Mix salt with 1 ltre of water cut rectangle mould into smaller peices or just take out of little baskets, pop them in brine leave for 1 hr drain refrigerate and enjoy. You can roll them in fresh herbs or cracked pepper at this stage if you like.

Simple recipe but must be a true to type one as my maltese friends are now lining up for some.

Good Luck.

Have you made Quark? If not I can give you a recipe for it too,


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## keezawitch (17/2/12)

Meant to ask how do you cook curds after pressing?


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## benno1973 (20/2/12)

Thanks for that, the gbejnet recipe looks great. If you want to dry into a hard parmesan like grating cheese, do you just air dry them for a couple of days ebfore aging them like parmesan?

I've never made quark, in fact I only ate it for the first time last week. Delicious!

With the haloumi, after you've pressed the curds you cut them into large chunks. Then bring the whey to about 85C and drop the curds into the whey for an hour. When they're cooked, they float to the top. I assume that the long cooking time gives the squeaky taste.


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## keezawitch (20/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Thanks for that, the gbejnet recipe looks great. If you want to dry into a hard parmesan like grating cheese, do you just air dry them for a couple of days ebfore aging them like parmesan?
> 
> I've never made quark, in fact I only ate it for the first time last week. Delicious!
> 
> With the haloumi, after you've pressed the curds you cut them into large chunks. Then bring the whey to about 85C and drop the curds into the whey for an hour. When they're cooked, they float to the top. I assume that the long cooking time gives the squeaky taste.



No need to air dry, just leave in fridge, I have mine in a tupperware thingy that has a tray in it so cheese off bottom and 2 covers one has holes in it and the other is clear plastic, if you want to dry it leave with the holey one for a few days in fridge to get a rind then leave with both covers on it just hardens with time in fridge. Quark soooo easy, i will post the recipe later, to lazy to get up and find it, but i must stress the buttermilk has to be as fresh as you can get, it is made from 2 ingredients, goats milk and buttermilk.

When I make the haloumi I will have to remember to save the whey then and not toss it into an imal food straight away, I made a Neuf yesterday, just have to find more people to eat the cheese i am making.


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## benno1973 (20/2/12)

Speaking of saving whey, I've just been looking into what to do with it. I hate giving 6L of whey to the chickens, it seems like such a waste. A litre or so is fine, but there's so much whey left over that it seems criminal to waste it. I made bread with it the other day, and I hear that it's a great starter for fermented foods (like kimchi) as it has all the lacto already there. Other uses that I haven't tried are...


stock replacement for soups/sauces etc
base liquid for a marinade
add KoolAid or some sort of powdered cordial and it makes a refreshing drink for the kids
shampoo ?!!!

What do others do with it?


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## keezawitch (20/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Speaking of saving whey, I've just been looking into what to do with it. I hate giving 6L of whey to the chickens, it seems like such a waste. A litre or so is fine, but there's so much whey left over that it seems criminal to waste it. I made bread with it the other day, and I hear that it's a great starter for fermented foods (like kimchi) as it has all the lacto already there. Other uses that I haven't tried are...
> 
> 
> stock replacement for soups/sauces etc
> ...




well bugger me didnt think it could be used for anything but animals, could you give me the bread recipe please, I will have to have a look see what else to use it in.


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## Airgead (20/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Speaking of saving whey, I've just been looking into what to do with it. I hate giving 6L of whey to the chickens, it seems like such a waste. A litre or so is fine, but there's so much whey left over that it seems criminal to waste it. I made bread with it the other day, and I hear that it's a great starter for fermented foods (like kimchi) as it has all the lacto already there. Other uses that I haven't tried are...
> 
> 
> stock replacement for soups/sauces etc
> ...



Its used a a starter for anything lacto fermented. i have seen recipes for naturally fermented ketchup and also mustards using it.

Cheers
Dave

Edit: Oh yes.. and if you believe the hippies it cures everything from dandruff to cancer. If you use apple cider vinegar as well you will be practically immortal.


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## keezawitch (20/2/12)

Airgead said:


> Its used a a starter for anything lacto fermented. i have seen recipes for naturally fermented ketchup and also mustards using it.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> ...



cool man :lol: must try it, i think they think if tastes bad its gotta be good for you, apple cider vinegar yuk


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## benno1973 (20/2/12)

I use apple cider vinegar to wash my hair, along with bicarb, so count me in with the hippies!

I imagine that you could use the whey to ferment salamis before stuffing them into the casings, hanging and drying, but I can't seem to see a reference to it on the web. You can use a tablespoon of yoghurt, so I think a bit of whey would do the same thing.

The bread recipe is pretty basic. We have a very basic bread recipe as we used to cater bread for a milk-protein allergic kid and we were on a health kick ourselves, so we wanted it as basic as possible - no milk, minimal salt/sugar/oil and something we could repeat easily week in week out when time was short. The final recipe after a bit of trial and error was...

515g water (can vary depending on the type/brand of flour you use)
900g flour
2 tbsp sugar
2 tbsp vege oil
2tsp salt
2 tsp yeast

Throw this all in the Kenwood Chef and mix with the dough hook for about 15 minutes. Leave to rise until it's doubled in size, then punch down, re-knead, halve (this makes 2 loaves) and put in loaf tins to rise again. We bake in a 200C over for 23 minutes.

My whey version just substituted the water component for whey, and it was delicious. I've also been playing around with adding the fruit/vege pulp from our juicer to add a bit more fiber. It's tasty, but requires a bit more flour as the pulp obviously still holds a bit of liquid.

On the downside, my daughter refuses to eat the bread, and prefers the Coles $1 loaves chock full of preservatives, salt, sugar and fat...


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## keezawitch (20/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> I use apple cider vinegar to wash my hair, along with bicarb, so count me in with the hippies!
> 
> I imagine that you could use the whey to ferment salamis before stuffing them into the casings, hanging and drying, but I can't seem to see a reference to it on the web. You can use a tablespoon of yoghurt, so I think a bit of whey would do the same thing.
> 
> ...



Good for you using it in your hair, it does give it a nice shine, to be honest I am a bit of a hippy too, love natural ingred, colorful clothes, and hair :blink: , my thoughts are if your not hurting anyone why not enjoy life.

Thanks for the recipe i will throw it in the bread machine, not such a hippy that i wont use mod cons  , next time i make cheese. Typical kid, 2 of mine are the same and they are 26 and 28 at least the oldest is happy to try homemade stuff and he also gets in and helps, he plans to help me make cured meats when we kill peppa pig or her babies not sure yet if we are going to use her to breed or just eat her. So we can use the whey in salami i hope.


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## benno1973 (20/2/12)

Yep, this thread shows that whey can be used in salami ferments, as well as sourdough starter, kefir, yoghurt, etc. Keep in mind that the culture affects the final taste, and the commercial starters are designed to reproduce commercial salami flavours (although are very expensive).

Anyway, back to cheese making...


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## keezawitch (20/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Yep, this thread shows that whey can be used in salami ferments, as well as sourdough starter, kefir, yoghurt, etc. Keep in mind that the culture affects the final taste, and the commercial starters are designed to reproduce commercial salami flavours (although are very expensive).
> 
> Anyway, back to cheese making...



talking about cheese, I made a neuf yesterday, dont think i put enough salt in, bit bland, soooo I have poped it in a nice seasalt brine, better get it out.

Oh and here is the quark recipe, 

3 litres goat milk pasturised
100ml cream
4 tablespoons fresh buttermilk, I put more in depends on how long i have had buttermilk fresher the better

heat milk and cream to 31 degree celsius, add the buttermilk, mix well, leave at room temp(warmish) for 24 hrs, should have thickened, I then drain it through cheesecloth for about 12 hrs buy then it is nice and thick, put in container and refridgerate. p.s. if day very hot drain in fridge .

Enjoy
keeza


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## keezawitch (23/2/12)

made a quick farmhouse cheddar yesterday, it seems a bit crumbly, will see what it is like in a month or so and compare to the other cheddar using different recipe i already have aging.


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## benno1973 (23/2/12)

Mine was nice and firm, although I used cows milk which I assume can make a bit of a difference. Still, I remember reading something about it being a bit more crumbly than the regular stuff. It'll be interesting to see how it compares, let us know!

Went and got my 10L of goats milk yesterday. They were being milked as I arrived and the kids even got to have a go at milking them, which they were excited about (city kids). Also managed to take home some feta, baked ricotta, camembert and blue cheese that she makes. Delicious!


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## keezawitch (23/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Mine was nice and firm, although I used cows milk which I assume can make a bit of a difference. Still, I remember reading something about it being a bit more crumbly than the regular stuff. It'll be interesting to see how it compares, let us know!
> 
> Went and got my 10L of goats milk yesterday. They were being milked as I arrived and the kids even got to have a go at milking them, which they were excited about (city kids). Also managed to take home some feta, baked ricotta, camembert and blue cheese that she makes. Delicious!



I will let you know, glad the kids enjoyed milking the goats, I keep promising one of my granddaughters i would teach her just havent got to that yet, do you get the milk raw and pasturise it or use it raw.


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## keezawitch (23/2/12)

<_< OKAY ALL YOU CHEESEY PEOPLE I need a bit of advice, I made my first neuf cheese the other day it was a bit bland so i brined it for a couple of hours, and then refridgerated it for a few days, just went to try it and it tastes okay BUT it has developed holes throughout the cheese, is that okay, is it supposed to do that, i have never tried neuf so really don't know what it should be like. Any advice appreciated


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## benno1973 (23/2/12)

Does it smell ok? I've read that after draining your curds, if there are small bubbly holes throughout the cheese, then it's possible that you have a coliform contamination. Check out this thread. Seems that the cheese will be spongey as well. I'm definitely no expert though, so will be interested to hear what comes of it...

Actually, check out this blog... read down towards the end where she identifies that keeping the cheese in her kitchen fridge was the problem. The yeast used in her breadmaking that was throughout the kitchen fridge seemed to be causing the holes.


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## keezawitch (23/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Does it smell ok? I've read that after draining your curds, if there are small bubbly holes throughout the cheese, then it's possible that you have a coliform contamination. Check out this thread. Seems that the cheese will be spongey as well. I'm definitely no expert though, so will be interested to hear what comes of it...
> 
> Actually, check out this blog... read down towards the end where she identifies that keeping the cheese in her kitchen fridge was the problem. The yeast used in her breadmaking that was throughout the kitchen fridge seemed to be causing the holes.



Smelt ok, tasted a bit bitter, but i got a bit of a tummy ache after eating a tiny bit. dont know if it was the cheese but i feed it to peppa pig in case. Sounds like it was the coliform contam as it was spongy too. I dont keep the cheese or goat milk in the same fridge as my bread yeast I have a seperate fridge for them, and another small one to age the cheese in. the house is full of fridges :lol: .I will check out the threads thanks.


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## keezawitch (23/2/12)

I have read those threads and a couple others too, I am thinking that the buttermilk was the problem, I think I may have been infected as the quark I made the day before didnt turn out as good as usual, I know the goat milk was fine as I pasturise it straight from gerty and seal in sterile glass bottles, I always cover the cheese while it ripens so only way the bacteria could have gotten in was through the store brought buttermilk. I must find out how to make fresh buttermilk I dont think the store brought is fresh enough.


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## benno1973 (26/2/12)

keezawitch said:


> gbejnet(maltese cheese)
> 
> Nice and simple
> <snip />
> ...



I made this yesterday keezawitch. Lovely tasting cheese, quite tangy and salty too. I used camembert molds as I didn't have any baskets around, and the recipe made 3 flattish discs about 1.5-2cm high. I have 2 in the fridge and one that I am airdrying as an experiment. Once it develops a bit of a rind I'll age it in the fridge for a bit to see how hard it gets.

I love the idea of using yoghurt as the starter culture. We make 2L of yoghurt each week and it is permanently in the fridge. 

I noticed that the curds were really firm and springy and quite difficult to cut without them causing currents and swinging around in the pot. I assumed that this was because of the yoghurt starter, however today I'm making cheddar with a mesophilic starter and I have the same issue. Well, it's not really an issue I guess. I shouldn't really complain that the curds are too firm. Just interesting. I've only ever worked with store bought cows milk before, and when cutting the curds it's like there's no resistance when you draw the knife through.

Is it the fact that the milk is goats milk, or that it's pasteurised? Anyone else found the same thing?


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## keezawitch (26/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> I made this yesterday keezawitch. Lovely tasting cheese, quite tangy and salty too. I used camembert molds as I didn't have any baskets around, and the recipe made 3 flattish discs about 1.5-2cm high. I have 2 in the fridge and one that I am airdrying as an experiment. Once it develops a bit of a rind I'll age it in the fridge for a bit to see how hard it gets.
> 
> I love the idea of using yoghurt as the starter culture. We make 2L of yoghurt each week and it is permanently in the fridge.
> 
> ...



I havent made cheese with cow milk so i cant compare but, the curds should be soft but hold shape, if they are a bit more rubbery we"ll call it that could be that the starter worked too well before adding the rennet, I have had this happen a couple of times, one turned out more like a mozarella without having to pull it  , tasted good so didnt worry, the purists might, anyway for the maltese cheese add the rennet 5 - 10 minutes earlier will make a softer curd (I think sometimes the yogurt is a bit more acidic at times), for the cheddar take the temp down by about 5 degrees celsius, the farmhouse cheddar I made the other day seems a bit too crumbly(letting it age now) and I think it is because I took temp up to fast so have to watch that with goatmilk too, I dont get in a twist over it as long as it is edible I am happy, my maltese ones I did yesterday turned out great, I need to get some more baskets, but thats just for cosmetics. Good luck. P.S it you make yogurt with the goat milk it will be a bit runny, i am working on that as I like mine very firm. I use both pasturised and raw and it doesnt seem to make any difference.


Keeza


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## benno1973 (27/2/12)

Thanks keeza. Yes, it was a little more rubbery and had that slightly mozzarella feel to it, almost like it squeaked when I chewed it. Could well be that the starter worked better than expected. Still tastes great, I am rarely unhappy with the cheese produced even if it's not quite right.

As far as the yoghurt goes, I've found temps and holding times quite important for firm yoghurt. I use the culture from cheeselinks, and store bought cows milk. I heat the milk to around 95C - the closer I get to boiling (but not actually boiling!), the firmer the yoghurt ends up. I then cool to 45C, add the culture (or a tblspn of yoghurt from the last batch) and maintain the temp in a thermos for 8 hours.

If it's still not thick enough, you can always pour it into cheesecloth and drain for half and hour? Then add a few tablespoons for cream and stir that through....mmmm delicious!.


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## keezawitch (27/2/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Thanks keeza. Yes, it was a little more rubbery and had that slightly mozzarella feel to it, almost like it squeaked when I chewed it. Could well be that the starter worked better than expected. Still tastes great, I am rarely unhappy with the cheese produced even if it's not quite right.
> 
> As far as the yoghurt goes, I've found temps and holding times quite important for firm yoghurt. I use the culture from cheeselinks, and store bought cows milk. I heat the milk to around 95C - the closer I get to boiling (but not actually boiling!), the firmer the yoghurt ends up. I then cool to 45C, add the culture (or a tblspn of yoghurt from the last batch) and maintain the temp in a thermos for 8 hours.
> 
> If it's still not thick enough, you can always pour it into cheesecloth and drain for half and hour? Then add a few tablespoons for cream and stir that through....mmmm delicious!.



yep i am with you i havent had too many failures if i can eat it its good, I never had a problem with cows milk yoghurt its just the goatmilk one, I think the problem is that the fat molecules are smaller in goatmilk, but I have read a bit more and I am going to boil milk next time I usually just pasturise it then use it, also I plan to go 50/50 cow and goat milk I think that may help, I often stir cream through also I have stirred qwark through too, really tangy. I will let you know how that one goes.


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## pokolbinguy (14/4/12)

Hi All,

I am thinking of giving cheese making a go, looking at buying the Country Brewer Kit (Country Brewer Kit) which seems like good value.

Any idea if there is a better value for money versions available??? Also anything else I should buy in addition to this???

If not I will just buy the Country Brewer Kit.

Cheers, Pok


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## benno1973 (14/4/12)

Pok - that's what I have and it'll see you through a bunch of different cheeses. It really is a good beginner kit. The only other thing I could recommend would be a good cheesemaking book, like 'Home cheese making' by Ricki Carroll - I notice that this is cheaper on ebay, so do a bit of hunting around. Oh, and maybe use your DIY skills to make a cheese press. It's pretty easy, there's plenty of info on the web and it doesn't cost too much.

Good luck, and post back your results...


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## pokolbinguy (15/4/12)

Found the book for $16.25 delivered.

Linky

NOTE- Book depository have a 10% off deal at the moment, us the code "APMA12" at the checkout. Ends 14th may, makes the book $14.63


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## seamad (15/4/12)

Dont know if you have an ebook but got mine $10.33 (nook book). Also mary karlin , artisan cheeses for $16. Just use vpnpronet to purchase, get a ten hour block from them for$2.50.
cheers
sean


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## pokolbinguy (15/4/12)

Book and Kit Ordered


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## keezawitch (16/4/12)

pokolbinguy said:


> Book and Kit Ordered



Hi, I get my ongoing supplies from Cheeselinks in victoria the freight is a bit steep but I get my rennet and starters from them as unfortunately my local brewers cheese supplies arent the freshest, not a lot of cheesemakers locally i guess, and they just didnt work as rennet has a short shelf life and starters must be kept in freezer and they dont do this.The supplies from cheeslinks have been great as for baskets I got some from cheeselinks but a bit smaller than i expected, got some from country brewer and they are really good. Enjoy your cheesemaking


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## Bribie G (1/5/12)

Ok guys here's a challenge for you.


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## Mikedub (2/5/12)

Bribie G said:


> Ok guys here's a challenge for you.




thats just freaky

_The larvae themselves appear as translucent white worms, about 8 millimetres (0.3 in) long.[1] When disturbed, the larvae can launch themselves for distances up to 15 centimetres (6 in). Some people clear the larvae from the cheese before consuming while others do not._


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## seamad (2/5/12)

Saw this cheese on the antonio carluccio ? Cooking show on the abc a few years ago. He did try the smallest amount possible and by hix facial expressions he wasnt that keen on it. Always thought i was up for any smelly cheese til i saw this one. Past my limit.cheers
Sean


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## stillscottish (6/5/12)

AndrewQLD said:


> Snip.. don't let it get to moist or the skin will fall off and it will be too runny.
> 
> Andrew



Just got the Mad Millie Blue Cheese kit and they advise scraping the mould off after 2 weeks or so ( ?? don't have the booklet here at work)

Wouldn't that be the same as taking the skin off?

Mine are 2 weeks old and have a thick green carpet of mould with the odd white bit


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## winkle (9/5/12)

stillscottish said:


> Just got the Mad Millie Blue Cheese kit and they advise scraping the mould off after 2 weeks or so ( ?? don't have the booklet here at work)
> 
> Wouldn't that be the same as taking the skin off?
> 
> ...



Looks like a hamburger patty I found under the grill  

PS: Give Sim a ring, he'd know.


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## stillscottish (12/5/12)

Kmart 

$4

Stainless Steel

Cutlery holder? I don't think so.






Ignore the photo perspective. It's straight sided. Holes on bottom also. I just pressed a 1 kg cheese in it.


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## stillscottish (12/5/12)

Here's a LINK to some resources I found. I don't think it's been posted here before. 

The site seems to have most other "Making" stuff covered as well.

Cheers

Campbell


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## seamad (12/5/12)

That looks great, what are the dimensions, mainly height , hopefully will fit in my cheese press.
Cheers,sean


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## winkle (12/5/12)

stillscottish said:


> Kmart
> 
> $4
> 
> ...


I must get back into cheesing.
(It looks a bit "hop backish" if you get my drift).


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## seamad (12/5/12)

Just read brew like a monk, one of the abbeys sends its used yeast to a nearby abbbey in france where the nuns use it to make a washed rind cheese, really smelly apparently, have to get missus to give it a try.


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## stillscottish (13/5/12)

seamad said:


> That looks great, what are the dimensions, mainly height , hopefully will fit in my cheese press.
> Cheers,sean



I don't have it here at work but it would be abt 200mm high and 120mm dia.


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## seamad (13/5/12)

Sweet, [email protected] mm height clearance, thanks for that.


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## stillscottish (6/6/12)

First outing of my new press. 2 Stiltons.

$8 for timber, $4 for the chopping board.


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## wabster (3/7/12)

Hi folks, it has been a while since I was active here making cheese, but I think I may have a source of excellent untampered with milk in the near future, and want to get some new camembert/brie cultures - penicilium candidum I think - and maybe a roquefortie too.

What places are selling the cheese making gear and cultures?

Cheerz Wabster.


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## benno1973 (3/7/12)

Hey Wabster,

The three I know of are:

Brewers Choice
Country Brewer
Cheeselinks

I've used the last 2 with no problems, not the first one though. Cheeselinks is good for large amounts, country brewer sells in smaller portions but its a bit more expensive.


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## Truman42 (19/7/12)

I want to give this cheese making a go. Are you guys buying the kits or just buying everything separetely?

Also is there any reason why I cant use my old BigW BIAB pot and sit it in the laundry tub filled with hot water to hold my temp at 32C? It wont work on the stove as I have an induction cook top (hence why its been retired from BIAB) Still has the tap fitted though couldn't see that being a problem.


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## benno1973 (19/7/12)

Truman said:


> I want to give this cheese making a go. Are you guys buying the kits or just buying everything separetely?
> 
> Also is there any reason why I cant use my old BigW BIAB pot and sit it in the laundry tub filled with hot water to hold my temp at 32C? It wont work on the stove as I have an induction cook top (hence why its been retired from BIAB) Still has the tap fitted though couldn't see that being a problem.



I bought a kit off someone on AHB. You could go either way, but the kit to start with makes everything easy, and makes sure you won't forget any bits and pieces. However if you already have some of the things lying around (i.e. camembert mats are just sushi mats rebadged, etc) then you could forego the kit and just buy the bits you need. Might work out cheaper.

You could sit it in a trough of warm water, it'd be like a large double boiler. It's mean a bit more messing around though, as you'd need to get your milk to the exact temp first, and then ensure that the water in the laundry trough was at the same temp before putting the pot in there. It'd be great for holding temps, but a lot of cheeses involve raising the temps by about 1*C every 5 minutes, which I imagine would be hard to achieve in the laundry trough.

If I were you, I'd try the process with water rather than proper ingredients first, to make sure that you can hit and hold temps properly.


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## stillscottish (19/7/12)

I got the Mad Millie blue cheese kit which Brewers Choice is marking down just now plus some other bits and pieces I had or picked up.

I'm doing 8 litre batches. Stick the 2l milk containers into the microwave for 3 mins each, that gets them to 32 deg -ymmv. Pour into stock pot in water bath. Do the cheesemaking thing.

I have no problems keeping the temps ok. I check it every 20-30 minutes and let out some water from the sink and top it up with some hot.

You can easily step up the temps if required with boiling water additions.

Cheese

Campbell


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## Truman42 (19/7/12)

Thanks guys, will check out the mad millie kits at brewers choice.


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## Truman42 (20/7/12)

I'm just reading some instructions now and it says heat milk to 32c add the starter and leave covered for 75 mins. 
Then It says to add rennet let stand for 30 mins, cut curds allow to set for 30 mins etc

What it doesn't say is does the 32c temp need to be held for this entire process? Or just until the starter has been added and it's sat for 75 mins ?


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## benno1973 (20/7/12)

It needs to be at that temp for the entire process. If you're using a double boiler, the thermal mass will keep the temperature pretty steady without too much intervention during that period. Maybe justr a small heat every now and again.


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## Truman42 (24/7/12)

I just brought myself the mad Millie blue cheese kit. Marked down to $33 at Brewers Choice as it is old packaging.

Going to use a 10 litre pot inside an esky as a double boiler setup. (Tried giving this pot away on here but no one wanted it so Im glad I kept it now  )

With heating the milk up in the microwave first does it matter if I was to go over the 32C mark and have to let it cool back down a bit? Ive not read anything where it says you must hit 32C exact, no higher? 
I will obviously heat for a minute or 2 and check but might end up going slightly over.


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## benno1973 (24/7/12)

I've not done it, but I can't imagine that it would be an issue. 32*C is the optimal temperature for the ripening cultures to work at, so as long as you haven't added those, you'll be right.


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## Truman42 (24/7/12)

Thanks mate. Will try and get as close as possible and should then know for next time how long to nuke it for. But at least if I do go over I know I'm okay.


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## benno1973 (29/7/12)

Making ricotta* today, the simplest of all cheeses IMO. No special equipment required apart from a pot and a thermometer.

Pour 4L of milk into a large pot and add a teaspoon of salt. Dissolve a teaspoon of citric acid (it's in the baking section of your local supermarket) in a few tablespoons of water and add that to the milk. Heat the milk to around 90*C, stirring occasionally to prevent it from sticking to the bottom of the pot and creating more mess to clean up. As it heats, you'll notice that curds start to form at the surface of the milk, but the milk remains, well, 'milky' coloured. As it gets to between about 85*C and 90*C, you'll notice that the curds really separate from the whey and the whey loses its milkiness, turning watery. 

Don't heat the milk over 90*C or you'll end up with burnt tasting ricotta. If the milk has reached temperature and hasn't spilt cleanly into curds and whey, you can try adding a tablespoon of vinegar and stirring it through to see if that helps. Too much vinegar and the ricotta will start tasting acidic, but 1 or 2 tablspoons shouldn't be an issue.

After the milk has separated into curds and whey, ladle the curds into a cheesecloth lined strainer, tie knots in the corners of the cheesecloth, and hang over a sink or a bowl to drain for half an hour. If you don't have cheesecloth, a chux wipe does just as well.






4L of milk should yield just over 1kg of cheese, dependant on the brand of milk and how well the curds form.

Spinach and ricotta canneloni tomorrow night for dinner 

* I should point out that this is cheats ricotta. Ricotta is normally made from leftover whey from the cheesemaking process, but this is madee from whole milk. It has a better yield, but isn't the way normal ricotta is made.


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## Wolfy (29/7/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> * I should point out that this is cheats ricotta.


It's also pretty much exactly how you make Paneer (which is usually strained/pressed a little more, but the process is the same).
Swiss voile is also a good alternative to cheese cloth (and I find it is easier to clean/maintain).


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## benno1973 (29/7/12)

Wolfy said:


> It's also pretty much exactly how you make Paneer (which is usually strained/pressed a little more, but the process is the same).
> Swiss voile is also a good alternative to cheese cloth (and I find it is easier to clean/maintain).



Yeah, paneer is vinegar, while farm cheese is lemon juice, isn't it? Or something like that. I read about it once, but my brain is small and unable to retain that sort of thing. Palak paneer is awesome.


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## Wolfy (29/7/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Yeah, paneer is vinegar, while farm cheese is lemon juice, isn't it? Or something like that. I read about it once, but my brain is small and unable to retain that sort of thing. Palak paneer is awesome.


Wiki suggests that paneer is 'food acid' (lemon juice, vinegar or citric acid), think I did mine with lemon juice.


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## Kai (30/7/12)

winkle said:


> I must get back into cheesing.
> (It looks a bit "hop backish" if you get my drift).




At 4 bucks from kmart, it's not gonna be the right sort of "stainless steel".


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## Truman42 (7/8/12)

Anyone know somewhere in Melbourne where I can by rennet? I threw out the bottle I received with my Mad millie cheese kit by mistake and dont want to pay $9.60 postage for a $6.30 bottle of rennet.

Failing that if someone lives near a shop that sells it such as Brewers choice, I could send you the money and a postbag (Can get them for free) if you would be so kind as to buy me some and send it my way.


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## benno1973 (7/8/12)

Cheeselinks is in Little River. I'm from WA, so not a clue whether that's close to Melb or not, but it looks close on a google map!


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## Wolfy (7/8/12)

It's 'close' - directly across the bay - but will take a couple hours to drive there (likely cost the postage price in petrol).


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## Truman42 (7/8/12)

I have a company car so don't pay for fuel but still its a bit of a hike to get there. Time is money. 
Oh well might have to just pay for the postage and let it be a lesson learnt. Thanks anyway.


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## stillscottish (8/8/12)

Kai said:


> At 4 bucks from kmart, it's not gonna be the right sort of "stainless steel".



Still Stainless, and its had a few batches through it.


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## Wolfy (27/8/12)

I'm looking to put together some cheese making gear, and have some cheese/beer linked questions:

How accurate does the processing temperature control have to be?
I've seen a lot of mention of double boilers, sink immersion, adding boiling water water to step 1deg/5mins, so most indications suggest the temperature needs to be reached and maintained accurately.
If that's true, wouldn't putting the cheese-pot inside the mash-tun and using a pump/HERMS/PID be an easier and more accurate way to do it?
(My kettle and HLT have internal elements or I'd just shove the pot/temp probe in those).

I have calcium chloride (from CraftBrewer, to adjust brewing water) is there any reason why I can't mix up 10g of that in 100ml of water and then dose it at 1ml/L if I use homogonized milk?
The African-university Gouda-study (linked earlier in this thread) indicated a rate of 5-20g calcium chloride per 100L homogenized milk is appropriate.


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## benno1973 (27/8/12)

Hey Wolfy,

Temperature is pretty critical, slow ramp times ensure that the curds don't trap liquid, and correct temps for the starter/rennet are required. PID systems are definitely the go - check out some of the threads on cheeseforums for some ideas. Some people have just set up a sous vide in a slow cooker with a PID to ensure accurate temps. Double boilers are good as they maintain the temp with a larger thermal mass, and have accurate heat distribution, but they aren't critical, especially if you're working with a PID controlled system and you stir regularly and gently.

You can use the CaCl from Craftbrewer, that'd be fine.


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## Wolfy (28/8/12)

Thanks *Kaiser Soze*, signed up and got a sense of Dj vu.
The first post I read was using a bath tub sized, eletreic element heater 'water bath' and the next was a video using 24Gallons of milk to make cheese!
... reminds me of joining AHB when I had nothing but a plastic bucket and spoon!

Knowing that I wanted to make some cheese, SWMBO brought these containers home from the supermarket:
















The baskets are 100mm diameter and 85/130 high, which should (as far as I can tell) make them quite useful as cheese molds.
(On special at Coles, $2.29 and $2.49).


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## benno1973 (29/8/12)

They're also good for brining feta and the like! I have a bundle from op-shops around the place.


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## bradsbrew (28/12/12)

Scored a mad millies specialty kit for christmas. Done a bit of research, then today i made some mozzerella for practise and now I have a double brie in the pot.

Going to big w tommorow to get a pot to fit in the 20L big w pot I already have, will then use my herms to keep constant temps in the bath pot. Can't wait to taste the results.

Cheers Brad


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## bradsbrew (11/1/13)

Have had the double brie in the waeco at around 10-11 deg for 14 days now, I stopped turning after 7 days. Once i wrap it can I just put it in the food fridge to age or do i need to keep it at 10 deg?

Cheers


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## Truman42 (11/1/13)

Im going to use a 10 litre pot I have and put bolts through it so it looks like a hop spider setup. Then just sit this in my urn and control the water temp with an stc1000. 

@Wolfy..those containers are awesome. I saw them at Coles the other day and didnt even think of cheese making. I was wearing the wrong cap..


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## phoenixdigital (11/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Have had the double brie in the waeco at around 10-11 deg for 14 days now, I stopped turning after 7 days. Once i wrap it can I just put it in the food fridge to age or do i need to keep it at 10 deg?



You can put it in the fridge and they will just age a bit slower. I made the mistake of assuming that brie's would last ages so made 8 wheels when I first started cheese making. After the allotted 10-14 deg aging I wrapped them and put them in the fridge. I got around to eating them after a month or so and they were super super strong and almost runny. I ended up only eating one at that time and by the time I got around to eating the rest they were even stronger again. Ended up chucking them out.

So long story short. Put them in the fridge and eat them at week 1, 2, 3 etc.... then you will know how long they will need to age for perfection next time.

I will only be making 4 wheels next time and eating them sooner rather than later.


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## bradsbrew (11/1/13)

Excellant. thanks


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## benno1973 (14/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Have had the double brie in the waeco at around 10-11 deg for 14 days now, I stopped turning after 7 days. Once i wrap it can I just put it in the food fridge to age or do i need to keep it at 10 deg?
> 
> Cheers


Aged at 3C, they will take forever to get to the right consistency. Maybe not forever, but anywhere up to a year. You're better off aging them at 10-12C for a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling, then when they start to feel a little soft, put them in the fridge to slow the aging process.




phoenixdigital said:


> You can put it in the fridge and they will just age a bit slower. I made the mistake of assuming that brie's would last ages so made 8 wheels when I first started cheese making. After the allotted 10-14 deg aging I wrapped them and put them in the fridge. I got around to eating them after a month or so and they were super super strong and almost runny. I ended up only eating one at that time and by the time I got around to eating the rest they were even stronger again. Ended up chucking them out.


I've done that. Left them for too long in the cheese cave and they were so strong and runny. Strong aftertaste of ammonia, but still, I'm working my way through them! :unsure:


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## Truman42 (22/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Have had the double brie in the waeco at around 10-11 deg for 14 days now, I stopped turning after 7 days. Once i wrap it can I just put it in the food fridge to age or do i need to keep it at 10 deg?
> 
> Cheers


brad thats a bloody brilliant idea Ive got a large waeco just siting in the garage doing nothing. Couple of questions..

Do you use a hygrometer at all? Do you think the humidty level is ok in the waeco using a wet cloth in the bottom of the container? I assume so as there is no fan in there to dry out the air.

Do you use an STC1000 with the waeco and will it control the temps no problems? (I know with some of those digital thermostats on fridges they re-set to a higher temp when the power is switched off and back on again.)


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## bradsbrew (26/1/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Aged at 3C, they will take forever to get to the right consistency. Maybe not forever, but anywhere up to a year. You're better off aging them at 10-12C for a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling, then when they start to feel a little soft, put them in the fridge to slow the aging process.


Hmm should have rechecked this thread sooner.



Truman said:


> brad thats a bloody brilliant idea Ive got a large waeco just siting in the garage doing nothing. Couple of questions..
> 
> Do you use a hygrometer at all? Do you think the humidty level is ok in the waeco using a wet cloth in the bottom of the container? I assume so as there is no fan in there to dry out the air.
> 
> Do you use an STC1000 with the waeco and will it control the temps no problems? (I know with some of those digital thermostats on fridges they re-set to a higher temp when the power is switched off and back on again.)


I just put them in the container i got with the kit, had moisture in the container. Did not check humidity. As for temp control, I put a measure only probe into the waeco and set the fridge temp accordingly.


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## bradsbrew (26/1/13)

Well its not looking too good. As you can see there is a bit of mould, it has the blue/green mould and some big lumps of white mould. It is more of a hard cheese and tastes between cream cheese and edam. Only had a little taste but had quite a nice flavour.

When storing I just wrapped it and put it in a container without a lid.


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## benno1973 (26/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Well its not looking too good. As you can see there is a bit of mould, it has the blue/green mould and some big lumps of white mould. It is more of a hard cheese and tastes between cream cheese and edam. Only had a little taste but had quite a nice flavour.
> 
> When storing I just wrapped it and put it in a container without a lid.


Did you let the white mould grow for about 10 days before wrapping? Doesn't look like there's any white mould on the surface?


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## Truman42 (26/1/13)

well i finally had a go at making a blue today. Not as much work as making beer but certainly takes just as long

Heres my double boiler setup just a pot with bolts that sits inside my 18 litre urn. (My father in law gave me that urn and I did my first brew in it as a BIAB and was using it for my HLT. My missus is very sentimental and I recently made a HLT from a keg so I'm glad I was able to use the urn for something else.)




Heres the curds and whey




And here is my maturation box with the cheese draining which I will move to my fridge tomorrow morning.




Was easier than I thought and hopefully it will turn out ok in a few months time.


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## Batz (26/1/13)

I must have crack at this sometime, a friend brought around some homemade Feta the other day and it as awesome. Quite easy to buy milk straight from the dairy up this way, that's what all the local cheese makers do.

Batz


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/13)

Batz said:


> I must have crack at this sometime, a friend brought around some homemade Feta the other day and it as awesome. Quite easy to buy milk straight from the dairy up this way, that's what all the local cheese makers do.
> 
> Batz


Illegal in NSW to get it from the dairy farmers direct...... -_-


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## hbnath (26/1/13)

Thats a bit rough DS?!! We have to join a cooperative/club...basically signing a waiver...then can buy locally through a vendor. Been waiting to have some leftover milk at the end of each week, but we drink all six litres each week it tastes so damn fine and creamy. Might have to up our weekly order so I can try some cheese making


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## Batz (26/1/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Illegal in NSW to get it from the dairy farmers direct...... -_-


Same here, but you can buy a $10.00 share in one cow and then you can pay the farmer to look after and milk your cow. You don't pay for the milk as it's yours from your cow, (and it's legal to drink fresh milk from your own cows) the payment is for the farmers time only and you pay this when you collect your milk.


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## benno1973 (26/1/13)

Truman - what recipe are you following? Most I've seen age at room temp for the first 4 days, flipping the curds twice a day. After 4 days, it should look slightly blue/green, and then it goes into the ageing fridge. Your recipe is different I guess, just curious as to what recipe you're following. Did you use a commercial blue culture or a piece of blue cheese to innoculate?


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## bradsbrew (26/1/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Did you let the white mould grow for about 10 days before wrapping? Doesn't look like there's any white mould on the surface?


There was a small layer of white mould which seemed to have dissappeared. I had it in the maturing box for a couple of weeks at 11 deg before putting in the food fridge. There was moisture in it each time I flipped it, I just drained the container each time. Should I have put a lid on the container when I put it in the fridge? I kept the lid on when I had it in the maturing container. Oh well might just throw these ones and try again.


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## Truman42 (26/1/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Truman - what recipe are you following? Most I've seen age at room temp for the first 4 days, flipping the curds twice a day. After 4 days, it should look slightly blue/green, and then it goes into the ageing fridge. Your recipe is different I guess, just curious as to what recipe you're following. Did you use a commercial blue culture or a piece of blue cheese to innoculate?


Im using the recipe that came with the mad millie blue cheese kit I brought.

It says the next morning to remove from the moulds and lightly sprinkle with salt then to put in the maturation box or fridge at 15C. Then turn each day for three days and salt it. After 3 days poke 40 holes from top to bottom then age at 10C. So i suppose 15C isnt that cold and could be done outside of a fridge in winter anyway.

I used the flora danica and roqueforti that came with the kit. But it was bloody hard to scale down to my volume. The satchets are for 8 litres but the recipe is for 2 litres and I doubled it so used 4 litres of milk. It said to use 4-5 grains or 1/4 satchet of flora danica but it was a fine powder. I ended up pouring it into a yeast vial and weighing it then just working out how much 1/2 a satchet would be (for double the recipe quantity)


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## benno1973 (26/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> There was a small layer of white mould which seemed to have dissappeared. I had it in the maturing box for a couple of weeks at 11 deg before putting in the food fridge. There was moisture in it each time I flipped it, I just drained the container each time. Should I have put a lid on the container when I put it in the fridge? I kept the lid on when I had it in the maturing container. Oh well might just throw these ones and try again.


I put a lid on my container, and just prop one of the corners open. This keeps the humidity up but allows for some air exchange. 

First 10 days is in the container with the lid propped open, and after about day 4 you can see white mould forming. Each day after this I (with clean hands) wipe the mould across all faces of the cheese with a finger, which disperses the mould and also flattens it down. At around day 10 when the mould is pretty much covering the cheese, I wrap them and keep them in the fridge (no container) for another couple of weeks.


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## benno1973 (26/1/13)

Truman said:


> Im using the recipe that came with the mad millie blue cheese kit I brought.


Oh, sure, that's fine. I thought you might just be making them and popping them straight in the fridge. 15C is fine to start the blue culture.


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## Thirsty Boy (27/1/13)

FYI cheesemakers

Most of the cheesemaking supply places I have seen stock essentially the same range of ingredients and equipment - one of which is bacterially derived vegetarian rennet. Which as luck would have it doesn't have a magnificent shelflife.

One of the biggest problems I've faced is knowing how much rennet to use in my cheesemaking, because I make cheese on such an occasional basis that my rennet is always old and the recommended amounts in the recipes never work very well.

The cheesemaking books talk about rennet tablets (not junket tablets) as an alternative..... but despite keeping an eye out for a few years I hadn't spotted them from any Aus supplier. Until I recently bought some lids for my fowlers jars through Ozfarmer that is.

Ozfarmer has nice rennet tablets with a stated shelf life of 36 months. They are in terms of litres coagulated per dollar, a much more expensive option than liquid rennet - but as an occasional cheesemaker, being able to have rennet that I can rely on is worth the extra cost.

Hopefully useful to those AHB cheesemakers who hadn't yet discovered these handy little tabs.

TB

http://www.ozfarmer.com/food-preserving/cheese-making


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## Truman42 (27/1/13)

Thanks TB might have to check it out. Ive had my liquid rennet since last year and didnt realize it has a poor shelf life. I kept it in the fridge but I suppose its probably not going to be any good for my second batch of cheese.

My curd hadnt set after 45 mins and even after an hour still wasnt as hard as I expected it to be. Could this be due to the rennet not being fresh enough?


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## Truman42 (27/1/13)

Heres my cheese the next morning with the moulds removed prior to salting. Seems very moist still. Does this look about right or should I be leaving my box lid open a bit to let it dry out?


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## bradsbrew (27/1/13)

I would be doing as KS suggests Truman, leaving the lid corner open. I think that is one of the areas I went wrong with mine.


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## donburke (27/1/13)

Thirsty Boy said:


> FYI cheesemakers
> 
> Most of the cheesemaking supply places I have seen stock essentially the same range of ingredients and equipment - one of which is bacterially derived vegetarian rennet. Which as luck would have it doesn't have a magnificent shelflife.
> 
> ...


are these any different to junket tablets ?


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## benno1973 (27/1/13)

Thirsty Boy said:


> FYI cheesemakers
> 
> Most of the cheesemaking supply places I have seen stock essentially the same range of ingredients and equipment - one of which is bacterially derived vegetarian rennet. Which as luck would have it doesn't have a magnificent shelflife.
> ...
> http://www.ozfarmer.com/food-preserving/cheese-making


Thanks TB. I didn't realise the shelf-life issues with vegetarian rennet. Up until now, I've been using liquid rennet (presumably calf derived rennet, as it doesn't specify otherwise on the pack) that's at least 3 or 4 years old, and it's been working fine. But it's running out, so I ordered vegetarian rennet the other day. I'll have to keep an eye on how it sets.

donburke - Cheese rennet is 80% chymosin and 20% pepsin. Junket is 80% pepsin, so it is much weaker than rennet.

Truman - For blue cheeses I've always drained the curds, crumbled them into small pieces, salted them and then moulded them (without pressing). This allows for the curds to mat with airpockets between them, which allows for better mould formation inside the cheese. You're not doing that, but poking holes in the cheese will allow for some mould to enter. Anyway, the curds look a bit moist so I'd leave the lid ajar to let some moisture out. The blue culture doesn't need too much moisture to form at this stage, but you also don't want the cheese to get dry and crumbly, so prop the lid open for a day or two.


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## Truman42 (27/1/13)

bradsbrew said:


> I would be doing as KS suggests Truman, leaving the lid corner open. I think that is one of the areas I went wrong with mine.


Yeh will do. Im using one of those small storage boxes so just put a wedge on one side so the lid has a small air gap.


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## Thirsty Boy (27/1/13)

I understand that calf rennet has much betterr shelf life than vege rennet..... and its not that the stuff stops working, its just that it loses potency and so you never know whether the amount you used is what you intended....might might still coagulate, but different recipes use differing amounts of rennet, presumably for a purpose. So if mine is only x% and i dont know what x is - how much is the right amount?

I dont like that sort of uncertainty in anything I do

Donburke: Is it the same as junket tablets?? Not by my understanding. I believe they are both more potent and made of a differing ratio of chymosin to pepsin than are junket tablets. Basing this off limited "internet information" though - so it could be hooey.


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## Truman42 (28/1/13)

Ive just been looking at a recipe for Camembert and one of the ingredients is a Camembert/mesophilic culture/ mould blend. 

I assume this is the same thing as the roqueforti and flora danicum used in blue cheese but already blended together (and obviously suited to Camembert). 
So would it be possible for me to use the flora Danica starter culture I already have to make a starter culture and add some Camembert cheese for the "Penicilium candidum" needed in Camembert? I've read that you cut off a small piece of the white rind and mix with a small amount of water then pour in the water when adding the starter culture?
Kaiser you mentioned using cheese to innoculate is this what you refer too?


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## benno1973 (28/1/13)

Truman - yep, exactly. For blues, I have a roquefort culture but generally I take a teaspoon sized lump of my last batch of blue, mix it with water into a paste and add it to the milk. You can do the same with camembert I understand, although I've never tested it out. I can confirm that mixing it with water an dspraying it on salamis does produce a white mould rind, so yes, the white mould is definitely viable this way. 

If you were to do it, I'd suggest that you use about a teaspoon sized lump of camembert and blitz it in a food processor with 1/4 cup water or milk. Then add it to the cheese and proceed as per usual.


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## capretta (29/1/13)

i used to do it, but i kept experimenting with smaller amounts until it got unreliable and the heartache wasnt worth it for me anymore. a teaspoon was more than i ever used so would give you a strong starter i would guess with very little chance of failure.. but ymmv!


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## Truman42 (29/1/13)

Thanks gents. So I assume this will also work with any commercial camembert cheese? (Kasier you say you used a lump from your last batch of blue)

They dont add some sort of preservative or something like that to commercial cheese that would make this not work???

Do you guys make a starter culture at all? My mad millie cheese kit instructions said to just mix the mesophilic culture with some milk and pour it in. But Ive been reading about making a starter culture the day before.
I suppose its the same thing as throwing in a packet of Wyeast into a brew or making a 2 litre starter on a stir plate and pitching at high Krausen.


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## benno1973 (29/1/13)

I've used moulds from lots of commercial blues, there's no preservative or anything that you need to worry about, they're all live cultures.

With camembert, I do make a starter culture, but generally it's more to assess the viability of the culture. It tends to set a little like yoghurt, and then you can sit it in the fridge until you're ready to make the cheese. Saves me spending all that time making the cheese only to find that the starter culture was old and didn't do anything. I'm currently using a pack of culture that's nearly 4 years old, so it's pretty necessary!


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## Truman42 (29/1/13)

Cheers Kaiser thanks for that will give it a go.


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## Truman42 (30/1/13)

Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.

Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.


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## benno1973 (30/1/13)

Truman said:


> Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.
> 
> Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.


Aging blue requires a pretty high humidity (90-95%), so I keep the blue in a sealed container. I keep the brie in a container with the lid propped just open. The recommendation is to air the blue out every few days. Just remove it from the fridge, open the container and leave it at room temp to air out for an hour or so, then seal it back up and return to the fridge. 

To be honest, I haven't been airing my blue and it's looking and tasting just fine. I guess it gets and airing out when I flip it every few days.


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## capretta (30/1/13)

cross contaminate for beautiful blue and white children. cheese purity be damnned!


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## Truman42 (30/1/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Aging blue requires a pretty high humidity (90-95%), so I keep the blue in a sealed container. I keep the brie in a container with the lid propped just open. The recommendation is to air the blue out every few days. Just remove it from the fridge, open the container and leave it at room temp to air out for an hour or so, then seal it back up and return to the fridge.
> 
> To be honest, I haven't been airing my blue and it's looking and tasting just fine. I guess it gets and airing out when I flip it every few days.


Im glad you said that because I currently have the lid slightly open on my blue and was worried the humidty wasn't high enough. Its wet enough underneath but quite dry on the top surface. Their is only slight condensation on the opposite side of the container to where the lid is opened slightly.

I will seal up the lid to keep the humidty in and maybe put a wet cloth in the bottom.


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## Kai (31/1/13)

Truman said:


> Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.
> 
> Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.


The correct answer is perhaps. 

Unless there is some pretty savage air circulation in your fridge (which I doubt) blowing mould from one cheese to another, then think about how those tiny little critters are going to make it all the way from one cheese to another. If they can do that unaided then hell, I think they deserve to.

Typically cross contamination is going to come from handling the white after handling the blue, or putting the white on a rack inhabited by the blue, or letting the white and blue bump uglies... etc etc. . User error is generally the problem

Of course, the best way to avoid user error is.... keep them separate. But I will categorically say you can keep white and blue in the same maturation room without fear of cross contamination, if you are careful.


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## benno1973 (31/1/13)

Kai said:


> Unless there is some pretty savage air circulation in your fridge (which I doubt) blowing mould from one cheese to another, then think about how those tiny little critters are going to make it all the way from one cheese to another. If they can do that unaided then hell, I think they deserve to.


Don't forget about sporulation. Blue mould cheeses eventually turn green because the mould sporulates. These spores are then forcibly ejected to ensure dispersal. It's not just about external air circulation.


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## Thirsty Boy (31/1/13)

OK - dont store them in the same plastic container... but in the same fridge??

Jeez, I get wee spots of blue mold on my cams sometimes... and I've never made a blue. Little care, different container, maybe a bit of paper towel over the top of teh container so things cant just fall in but moisture can still migrate out - and watch the cheese. If a little spot of blue starts to grow.... pick it off.

If it turns out a disaster... dont do it again. Its cheese not sheep stations, you can afford to risk getting it wrong once.


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## Truman42 (31/1/13)

Thanks gents I will give it a crack. Im using my Waeco so no fan inside the fridge and will keep them in seperate containers and handle them seperately perhaps on different days even. Ive aleady started the blue so tonight I will prick holes in it then I dont need to touch it as often.

@TB...Yes true not sheep stations but at around 4 months waiting to get to eat the cheese I would rather not let it turn out to be a disaster in the first place.


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## benno1973 (31/1/13)

Personally, I love a good blue brie. I don't care if they cross-contaminate, but the question was whether they could, and they can. Even in the same fridge. Some people keep separate fridges for blue and white mould cheese, it's not unheard of, and that's the reason. 

It's not sheep stations, but it is cheese!  And for the sake of buying a $2 tuppaware container, you can avoid the issue if you want. As Truman said, if you're spending time making and ageing cheese, you'd rather do everything possible to make sure the result is as you want it.


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## Kai (1/2/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Don't forget about sporulation. Blue mould cheeses eventually turn green because the mould sporulates. These spores are then forcibly ejected to ensure dispersal. It's not just about external air circulation.


Thankyou, I did. Forget, I mean. That's a pretty hairy blue to reach that point though.

And yes, if you get a spot or two of blue on your white, then just wipe it off!


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## Truman42 (1/2/13)

After turning and salting for 3 days Ive now pricked 40 holes with a sterile needle into each cheese. Put them back into the maturation box and in the fridge set at 10C. Ive locked the lid down and placed a starsan soaked cloth in the bottom to keep the humidty up at 95%. Instructions say to leave for 10 days and mould should start to form.
Do I need to turn them at all in this next 10 days or leave them alone?

I was thinking of getting one of these hygrometers to keep an eye on my humidity. I know its a cheapo but at least I can get a rough idea of where Im at. Anyone else use a hygrometer in their cheese house?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Hygro-temperature-Probe-for-Reptiles-Incubators-/150915201275?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item23233f38fb


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## benno1973 (1/2/13)

Truman said:


> After turning and salting for 3 days Ive now pricked 40 holes with a sterile needle into each cheese. Put them back into the maturation box and in the fridge set at 10C. Ive locked the lid down and placed a starsan soaked cloth in the bottom to keep the humidty up at 95%. Instructions say to leave for 10 days and mould should start to form.
> Do I need to turn them at all in this next 10 days or leave them alone?
> 
> I was thinking of getting one of these hygrometers to keep an eye on my humidity. I know its a cheapo but at least I can get a rough idea of where Im at. Anyone else use a hygrometer in their cheese house?
> ...


I bought one of these, and it was out. Like very out. I compared it to another 'weather station' hygrometer I had an it measured 30% different. I calibrated both (google calibrating a hygrometer) and it was reading 42% when it should have been reading 75%. Maybe I just got a bad one. It's cheap enough just to give it a whirl.

And yes, I keep a hygrometer in my cheese fridge...


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## Truman42 (1/2/13)

What sort do you use kaiser?


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## benno1973 (1/2/13)

Truman said:


> What sort do you use kaiser?


I just put a weather station unit in there to get some idea of what the humidity is. It's not an expensive one, but it's relatively accurate.


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## Truman42 (1/2/13)

Ok might get myself one of those then.

Heres an interesting website for those wanting to make cheese. He tells you how to make the basic soft cheese or hard cheese curds then from there how to innoculate your cheese to turn it into whatever style of cheese you want to make.

http://thewayofcheese.wordpress.com/


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## Truman42 (9/2/13)

Im about to start making a camembert and Im using 6 litres of skim milk and 400mls of cream as per the recipe. However in the instructions it says this

*Preparing the Milk*. Warm the milk and cream combination to 32°C _(if using homogenised milk and no cream, add the Calcium Chloride solution at this time). _Add the prepared starter and mix well. Leave covered for 75 minutes to ripen.

So does this mean if I am using cream then I *dont* have to use the calcium Chloride?? it seems a bit confusing and I tried searching for this but couldnt find anything.

(Might also post this on the cheese forum but as its now late at night over in the US I didnt expect an answer today and I want to get started.)


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## benno1973 (9/2/13)

Yes, that seems to be indicating that you only need to add the CaCl if you are using homogenised milk with no cream, which I would imagine is a bit odd.

Just so we're on the same page here, CaCl is added to the milk to restore the calcium balance back to the milk. Homogenised/pasteurised milk often requires this, as the process of pasteurisation and homogenisation decreases the calcium in the milk and can affect the coagulation properties. This can range from slow to unstable to no setting at all after adding the rennet.

I assume that both the milk and cream that you're using are homogenised and pasteurised, correct? 

If so, I'd be adding the CaCl, despite the confusing instructions.


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## Truman42 (9/2/13)

Yeh mate both the milk and cream were homogenized so I added the cacl. 

However I fucked up big time and added 20 Mls instead of 2 Mls. 
I had poured some into a tube to draw out 2 Mls from and ended up pouring this tube into my cooled water as well before tipping into the cheese. Don't know why just wasn't thinking. 
And I misread the instructions and forgot to add the Camembert paste for the mold spores. 
So ended up adding them after 75 mins and let it sit before adding the rennet. 

See how it goes.


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## benno1973 (10/2/13)

Truman said:


> Yeh mate both the milk and cream were homogenized so I added the cacl.
> 
> However I fucked up big time and added 20 Mls instead of 2 Mls.
> I had poured some into a tube to draw out 2 Mls from and ended up pouring this tube into my cooled water as well before tipping into the cheese. Don't know why just wasn't thinking.
> ...


Adding too much CaCl will probably make for a really firm curd, and a harder cheese. See how that one goes.

Adding the mould spores late isn't really a problem, but possibly allowing the whole cheese to sit for a longer period will allow the meso culture to develop more, and you'll end up with a more sour tasting cheese.

Either way, it will make cheese.


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## benno1973 (10/2/13)

I cut into my camembert yesterday, moulded for 10 days and then wrapped and aged 2.5 weeks. Oh. My. This was so good. It ran all over the cheese plate and had to be herded back into its shell. We just ate it with a baguette and sundried tomatoes, and it was good.


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## Truman42 (10/2/13)

That looks awesome mate. Unfortunately I think mines you going to be too sour as it smells sour now. The curds were like rubber and the cheese is double the height if what it should be

With my blue I had to drain the curds in cheese cloth for awhile before salting. With this recipe it just said to remove 60% of the whey then with a slotted spoon scoop the curds into the moulds. No salting until the next day when the cheese was tipped out of the moulds and no draining of the curds first before spooning into the moulds. 

I used the Epicurean recipeftomthe country brewers we site but starting to think its not the best recipe to use 

Did you drain your curds in cheese cloth prior to putting them in the moulds??


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## capretta (10/2/13)

awesome photo kaiser! 

since we are doing cheese photos, ive been getting back into cheese this year and my first batch i thought i was going well for the first few days untill i realised the humidity sensor was OUTSIDE the fridge and it was closer to 50% humidity inside! damn! their wooly coats were understandably slow to start but are off and racing now. It looked slightly geen but was more blue irl.
next week they get the chop!


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## benno1973 (11/2/13)

Truman said:


> That looks awesome mate. Unfortunately I think mines you going to be too sour as it smells sour now. The curds were like rubber and the cheese is double the height if what it should be
> 
> With my blue I had to drain the curds in cheese cloth for awhile before salting. With this recipe it just said to remove 60% of the whey then with a slotted spoon scoop the curds into the moulds. No salting until the next day when the cheese was tipped out of the moulds and no draining of the curds first before spooning into the moulds.
> 
> ...


No draining of the curds in the cheesecloth. You want them to be moist and they will slowly drain whey and compact down to about 1/3 their original height as the whey is removed. With blue, you're trying to allow veins and crevices to remain, so you need the cheese drier and crumbled, and then assembled into mould, which allows cavities to form while the curds mat together.

I think the best recipe I've used is the country brewer recipe. I've tried a few, but that was definitely the one that worked best (with a few tweaks from memory).


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## benno1973 (11/2/13)

Wow capretta! They look fantastic! Did you poke holes in them? Let us know how they taste, they certainly have their fair share of mould on them!


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## Truman42 (11/2/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> No draining of the curds in the cheesecloth. You want them to be moist and they will slowly drain whey and compact down to about 1/3 their original height as the whey is removed. With blue, you're trying to allow veins and crevices to remain, so you need the cheese drier and crumbled, and then assembled into mould, which allows cavities to form while the curds mat together.
> 
> I think the best recipe I've used is the country brewer recipe. I've tried a few, but that was definitely the one that worked best (with a few tweaks from memory).


That was the other problem I had. For some reason they didnt reduce in size like my blues did. They only reduced to about 2 inches tall. I ended up slicing them in half to get them too the required size. Despite all my stuff ups with this cheese Im hoping for an edible finished product.
Will stick to this recipe fior next time then and see how it goes.

Did you bother to make up a spray of the PC from an existing lump of CAM and spray onto the surface of your cheese?


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## benno1973 (11/2/13)

Nah, I find that the mould seems to come up pretty quickly. Once you start seeing fine hairs of white mould, use clean hands and wipe the surfaces of the cheeses with your index finger. This flattens the mould and also spreads it over the surfaces of the cheese. If you see any black mould, sprinkle salt on it and gently run the salt in with cheesecloth. If you use your finger to spread the white mould, it will dominate pretty quickly.


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## Truman42 (11/2/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Nah, I find that the mould seems to come up pretty quickly. Once you start seeing fine hairs of white mould, use clean hands and wipe the surfaces of the cheeses with your index finger. This flattens the mould and also spreads it over the surfaces of the cheese. If you see any black mould, sprinkle salt on it and gently run the salt in with cheesecloth. If you use your finger to spread the white mould, it will dominate pretty quickly.


Cheers mate, will do.


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## capretta (11/2/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> ! Did you poke holes in them?


Hey thanks, yep if you can see closely in the photo there are little specks of white which was interior of cheese which came out with the skewer. I really recommend new cheese makers check on ebay for those cheap humidity sensors that you wire up in a jiffy box. Really helped me get a handle as i had a run where i lost 4 consecutive cheeses to over humidity. It almost ended cheese for me , but my addiction to high cholesterol brought me back into the curds!
Ill add a photo when i clean them up for consumption.


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## Truman42 (11/2/13)

Are they those ones that look like an stc1000?


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## benno1973 (11/2/13)

I have one of these:

Humidity controller

It's good, seems to work well. Wiring diagram is a little difficult to follow, but all wired up now and working. On the downside, it only has a single relay, so the one of either the humidifier or dehumidifier is always on at any time.


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## capretta (11/2/13)

Yep thats the one, and the wiring diagram gave me a headache too!! Lol, it was just handy to get a feel for what a particular humdity felt like. Its only on rarely now but it gave me a baseline for what goes on inside a fridge.


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## Truman42 (11/2/13)

Okay so they can also humidify or dehumidfy the air or do you have to connect them to a humidifier and dehumidifer? Similar to how you connect a stc1000 to a heat belt or fermentation fridge??


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## benno1973 (11/2/13)

Yep, you need to buy an ultrasonic humidifier and a dehumidifier. Then you wire it with extension cord ends and plug them in, and it will switch them on via the relay.


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## Truman42 (12/2/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Yep, you need to buy an ultrasonic humidifier and a dehumidifier. Then you wire it with extension cord ends and plug them in, and it will switch them on via the relay.


geez Just when I had thoguht ive finally got all the gadgets I need for brewing an dont have to spend anymore money on brew gear..now I have to divert those funds to cheese making.


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## benno1973 (12/2/13)

Wait till you start making salami! (although the humidity controlled fridge will work there as well)


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## capretta (12/2/13)

Truman said:


> geez Just when I had thoguht ive finally got all the gadgets I need for brewing an dont have to spend anymore money on brew gear..now I have to divert those funds to cheese making.


dont stress too much truman, i dont use a humidifier or anything, if it gets too dry i seal up the big tupperware container i keep them in a little more securely with glad wrap, or add some old cloth in trays of water etc.. frankly the fridge takes care of the dehumidifying.


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## Truman42 (12/2/13)

Well at the moment my hygro says the container with my blues in is at 90% and 10C. I have a wet cloth in the bottom to help get the humidty up.

I checked calibration of my hygo with the salt in water test and it was spot on 75% humidty so I know its calibrated and working correctly. Its a wireless weather station from Bunnings and only cost $19.95.

My cams are on the wamer side of the fridge and I have the lid cracked on their container so they stay a bit wamer and a bit drier. Probably around 80% in their world.


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## capretta (12/2/13)

sounds perfect then!


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## benno1973 (12/2/13)

That's ideal for both cheeses. Sounds like you got it covered.


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## Truman42 (15/2/13)

Well after my disaster with the stc1000 failing and my cheese getting down to -7C it seems to have recovered well. i re did the holes in the blue today with a skewer instead of a pin and I sampled the cheese that came off the skewer....Man who would of thought that mould could taste so bloody good.. fantastic is all I can say.

Not holding up much hope for the cams with the over dose of CACL, the waiting too long to rennet because I forgot to add the PC spores, and then the over heating of the curds when I turned my double bolier up instead of down, but who knows they may just make it. Ive sprayed them with a PC slurry every two days twice now so can only hope that the PC starts to cover the surface and they soften in the middle.


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## Truman42 (19/2/13)

A bit of cheese porn for you cheese heads.

Here are my cams only 10 days old but they have some slight blue mould on them. Possibly some cross contamination from the blues but I think the PC is starting to grow well and should outgrow the blue.





Nice white PC growth on the sides




And here are my blues looking bloody marvellous after Ive just given them a wipe to get rid of some white mould spots on them.


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## Truman42 (30/8/13)

Not many cheese heads among us. No updates to this thread since Feb.

Anyway my blues and my cams were both failures. The blues ended up like hockey pucks which Im guessing was due to not a humid enough environment. Also my recipe said to scrape all the blue mould off after 1 month and then every month for 3 months. Ive since been told I shouldn't have done this.

The cams were a disaster from the start when I added 20mls of CaCl instead of 2mls by mistake. (Poured out some from the container so I could syringe off 2mls to add to water and accidentally poured in the wrong container)

So back to the drawing board for another attempt at some cams.

Here they are after removing them from the moulds.


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## bradsbrew (30/8/13)

I had a failure as well Truman, I have not tried again either. May just grab some milk this arv and make some cheese, whilst getting the Jerky ready.


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## markjd (30/8/13)

I'm tempted to try making my own camembert and blue cheese. But to be worth it financially, I'd have to make a lot of cheese. But I guess as a new hobby, it could work out.


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## Dave70 (30/8/13)

How can you tell if it's (blue, moldy cheese) safe to eat? I'm sure I read recently there was a recall from a cheese mob after a few customers became violently ill after eating their product.
Didn't say weather or not it had been cross contaminated however.


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## niftinev (30/8/13)

i'm a bit of a cheese head and I find this site very useful (link below), sorry mate can't help you with cams as I can't stand the stuff so I don't make it.

Lots of great info on this site

http://www.cheesemaking.com/recipes/recipedetails.html


edit only thing I don't like about this site is they use DVI cultures, but horses for courses


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## benno1973 (30/8/13)

markjd said:


> I'm tempted to try making my own camembert and blue cheese. But to be worth it financially, I'd have to make a lot of cheese. But I guess as a new hobby, it could work out.


Cams definitely work out financially viable for me. I make 4 camembert from 6L of milk, so that's around $1.50 each. And the taste is just way better that cheap cam.


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## Truman42 (30/8/13)

Kaiser...how moist do you keep your cams when ageing? Mine are at 12C and 92% humidity. They've been in the maturation box since Tuesday after drying out a bit for a few days on the kitchen bench. But as I turn them everyday they are wet on the bottom side.

Is this normal as more moisture comes out of them? I'm concerned they may be too wet and I should be lowering the humidity in the box for the time being?


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## benno1973 (31/8/13)

Hey Truman, I'm less than scientific about it. I have a curing fridge for salami/prosciutto which I keep at 12C and ~76% humidity, and I just put my cams in a tuppaware container in there with the lid cracked and held ajar. They are sitting on a sushi mat, so the water drains freely and for the first few days I drain the container as the whey seeps out. No idea of the actual humidity in the box.

I definitely don't dry them at room temp - maybe that's an issue? After they've drained for around 5 hours, I rub them with salt and put them straight in the maturation box on the sushi mat. I leave them for the first few days (just draining the free whey) until I see some wispy p.can growth, and then I start flipping daily. I certainly see moisture on the surface, but you don't want droplets. It helps if the container lid is on an angle so condensation doesn't drop down on them. You don't want them to sit in water, but you also don't want them to be dry and crack. 

Hope that helps? Happy to answer any questions. I have a blog post about the process I use. The hardest part for me was battling the black 'cat hair' mould before the white mould took hold. Spreading the white mould around with fingers helps, and lowering the humidity also helps.


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## Truman42 (31/8/13)

I follow the country brewer recipe and leave them on the bench in the kitchen covered for 24 hours to drain once I have removed the moulds. I then salt them and put them in my maturation box which has a shelf to allow them to drain and get air around them.

I turn them over everyday and although the top is moist the bottom is usually wet where the whey has drained. 

From what you said do you not bother to flip them until you start to see some white mould? I'm wondering if flipping them everyday means the whey doesn't drain out of the cheese properly and I should leave them for a few days.

Mine have been in the box since Tuesday and I have flipped them everyday and they are still wet on the bottom after flipping.

Today I salted them again just to draw out some more moisture and have wiped out my box and kept the lid off completely. The humidity has dropped from 92% down to 82% so far. 

After my first lot stuffing up I really want to get these right but I'm paranoid about them being too wet or then ending up too dry.

Must admit its easier to make beer.


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## Truman42 (31/8/13)

P.S. Love the blog and enjoying reading it.


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## TimT (7/12/13)

_How can you tell if it's (blue, moldy cheese) safe to eat? I'm sure I read recently there was a recall from a cheese mob after a few customers became violently ill after eating their product._

Dave70 - you're probably thinking of the JIndi cheese company who had listeria get into some of their cheeses. That doesn't come from the blue mould (which is penicillin), and you wouldn't find it many cheeses anyway, as after a month or so of ageing the cheese will have become so acidic that the listeria can't survive. That said some folks have penicillin allergies, though I'm not sure whether the penicillin is present in large enough quantities on cheeses with blue mould, or concentrated enough, to cause a reaction.

That same reason, listeria, is basically why milk is usually pasteurised and why usually, commercial cheeses in Australia have to be made from pasteurised milk, as a health precaution. An annoying and in many ways redundant health precaution because (as you see, above) it doesn't always stop the listeria, and it results in poorer quality of cheese. Bloody government grumble grumble grrrr....


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## TimT (31/3/14)

Going into the colder months now means it's - CHEESE SEASON* AGAIN! I've got three long-term cheeses on the go at the moment, in various states of maturity:

- A Caerphilly, which I'm probably going to eat fairly soon - it can be aged for months but it's the sort of cheese that will be ready after a few weeks. 
- A traditional Cheddar, which I kind of mucked up during the press - it's always hard getting the curds to knit together so it has a lumpy texture, which is going to make it difficult to wax, when I get around to it.
- A Double Gloucester cheese, still in the press, which apparently I've got to age one to three months. By the looks of it, it'll be a moister, sweeter cheese than cheddar (made in a similar way, but with a much shorter period of ageing/treating the curds).

And more to come.... oh, MUCH MUCH MORE TO COME.

Love to hear what other cheeses folks are making!

_*Cheese + Season = Cheason?_


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## New_guy (31/3/14)

TimT said:


> Going into the colder months now means it's - CHEESE SEASON* AGAIN! I've got three long-term cheeses on the go at the moment, in various states of maturity:
> 
> - A Caerphilly, which I'm probably going to eat fairly soon - it can be aged for months but it's the sort of cheese that will be ready after a few weeks.
> - A traditional Cheddar, which I kind of mucked up during the press - it's always hard getting the curds to knit together so it has a lumpy texture, which is going to make it difficult to wax, when I get around to it.
> ...


Mate - you need to give the Merri Mashers the low down on cheese 
Would be rapt to make my own cloth bound cheddar to have with my pickled onions and IPA!!!


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## benno1973 (1/4/14)

Man, I need to get back into making cheese. It's been at least 6 months since my last one, but you've inspired me Tim!


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## OzPaleAle (7/4/14)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Man, I need to get back into making cheese. It's been at least 6 months since my last one, but you've inspired me Tim!


Thinking the same thing, cruising around tassie at the moment consuming much cheese, giving me the itch.


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## cooraf (30/4/14)

this is my latest cheese i've made (asiago) it's only just been waxed will be ready to eat in 2 months.

i've also made cotwold, cearphilly, haloumi, feta, i have a Jalapeno & Garlic, Tomme and Asiago in the fridge aging. 

i've been keeping a blog of all my cheese and beer making: http://dnabrew.blogspot.com.au/

Dave


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## TimT (30/4/14)

Nice. I love the pattern the cloth and the moulds make on the skin of the cheese.

I am slowly working my way through the British Isles in cheese. In addition to my Cheddars, Caerphillies and Gloucesters I now have on my board a Cheshire and a Wensleydale. While lacking the super-salty or spicy kick of some of the continental cheeses, these UK cheeses are real stayers - lovely mild flavours, sour-sweet and bitter and nutty, and pleasant crumbly or smooth textures. I want to age some of them for as long as possible before eating. If anyone cares to suggest another obscure UK cheese for me to try I'd be eager to give it a go. I've got plans for a Cornish Yarg, for instance....

(Full disclosure - I ate the Caerphilly a while ago but it's easy to make and not meant to be aged for long anyway).


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## OzPaleAle (30/4/14)

Looks tasty, I have just done 2 x ~1kg parmesans & a swiss, found a wooden skewer and food colouring was a good way to write the date I made them on the cheese, had to be after it was a bit dryer so a couple of days after being out of the brine or the colour runs a fair bit.
Managed to score about 16L of various milks on clearance from supermarket for about $4, not amazing milk or anything but for $4 I took a punt, ended up making about a 1.5kg Parmesan as most of them were lower fat milks so not too bad.


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## pk.sax (8/6/14)

My first cheese making effort: paneer & whey waiting to be converted into ricotta tonight.


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## TimT (8/6/14)

Er, how did you make the paneer? Usually, I believe paneer is made from milk heated and given a few squeezes of lemon juice to separate the curds and whey.... when you do this you normally can't reheat the leftover whey to make ricotta. The milk's already yielded as much curds as it's ever going to and adding more lemon juice/vinegar is going to make it more acidic without giving you any more goodness.

Sorry to be a tiresome negative nelly....


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## pk.sax (8/6/14)

Well, I did exactly what you said.

Then, they whey looked more like lite milk than whey, so..... I put in a drop of rennet and a little runny water off the top of a jar of yoghurt. Left it in a tub, quite warm - 30-50C?!

Anyway, fast forward a couple if hours and the curds have separated from the whey, I cut it and left it alone again. Come back later and drained it all through cheesecloth and put a little salt on it (and pepper just for fun). So, currently I've got some extra soft white cheese from what I was gonna throw away. Is it ricotta? Dunno, prolly not. Tastes good though.


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## pk.sax (8/6/14)

Possibly didn't acidify the milk enough first go? Milk was borderline expired, not fresh enough... Dunno. Made 2 lots of cheese. Still gotta get into proper cheesemaking, today was a dry run handling equipment, quite happy to have something for the effort


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## TimT (8/6/14)

Hey you got results, so good for you!

Sounds like you didn't acidify the milk enough first go, as you suggest. Usual instructions are 'if the milk hasn't clearly separated into curds and whey after a few minutes add some more lemon juice (or vinegar or whatever acid you're using)'. Either that - or didn't heat up to around 95 degrees C as is common for paneer/ricotta, etc?


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## TimT (8/6/14)

I had a shocker the other day trying to make haloumi with nettle rennet.... no matter how much nettle rennet I added it didn't work*. So then I tried heating up to make ricotta.... I'd obviously somehow stuffed up the milk though, because I kept adding more vinegar and didn't get much separation of curds and whey at all.

In the end I strained it out and got a lump of horrible, salty, grey-looking curds. I put them in my fridge and ignored them for a week hoping they'd go away before throwing them out....

_*Thanks to the brilliant researchers on this very site, later I worked out my problem was probably that the way I'd tried to make nettle rennet destroyed the active enzyme._


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## OzPaleAle (10/6/14)

Made a creamy blue today, used a starter collected from a raw milk Roquefort from a cheese shop, separated the 2 cultures on agar plates and used them to inoculate a starter, not sure about dosing rates doing it that way however. 
hate paying $30 odd for the 8L of unhomogenised milk though, gotta get around to finding an alternative source, makes a big difference from the homogenised milk though. Just have to wait a few months to find out the result.


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## OzPaleAle (10/6/14)

Some of the cheeses I have on the go at the moment, Left is a 2 day old blue, front is a 2 month old swiss, the other 2 are 2 month old parmesans.


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## wobbly (23/10/14)

Can you use Star San to sanitise your cheese making equipment or is it necessary to soak everything in Milton?

I have been told to be careful not to use any sanitiser that contains both Sodium Hypochlorite and sodium Hydroxide (which according to the label Star San doesn't)

Cheers

Wobbly


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## TimT (23/10/14)

Apparently some cheesemakers do use Starsan. Mostly I just boil what I want to sanitise.


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## AndrewQLD (23/10/14)

An acid based sanitizer is fine for cheesemaking,


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## TimT (23/10/14)

I've read some cheesemakers just use vinegar.


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## wide eyed and legless (23/10/14)

Proxitane is used in the dairy industry would imagine would be fine for cheese, not made any yet but hopefully will get around to it.


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## seehuusen (6/11/14)

What a fantastic thread!

I bought the missus some cheese making gear, and she wants to make cams and hard cheese.
I'll see what she thinks about perhaps making your Blue cheese Andrew, looks SUPER yummy  (I love soft blue cheese)


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## Bomber Watson (7/11/14)

Spent the last few nights reading the thread first post to last. 

I want to make cheese. 

LHBS sells Mad Millie kits, and stocks all the various odds and sodds. 

Is it worth just going Mad Millie so all the stuff is available easily and locally, or is there a far better product out there?

Cheers.


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## TimT (8/11/14)

A cheese kit is a good start as usually you get a whole bunch of important stuff in the one kit instead of having to buy them piece by piece. Some of the MM kits look pretty good - I'd just make sure you get all the essentials, ie, cheese culture, rennet, cheese salt (non-iodised salt), cheesecloth, and a cheese press with follower and mold. Chat to folks at the cheese shop about it. Most of my stuff was originally from a kit (not MM, a different variety), and I haven't had a problem with it.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/11/14)

These guys are well worth a look

http://cheeselinks.com.au/


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## Bomber Watson (8/11/14)

Yes Stu, I saw them, and sussed the site out. 

As i said, i read the thread front to back . 

As i asked though, is there gear that superior to the MM stuff that i should just go full mailorder, or is there not that bigga difference and I can look at buying the localy available stuff.....

Honestly trying to suport the LHBS as much as i can, but the amount of things i get from them are decreasing as they have a reasonably small range...But they do have cheese stuff....

Edit, seen a lot of your posts, good to see theres a few other Pastafarians on this site. 

What model duke do you have?

Sorry bout the Hijack. 

Cheers.


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/11/14)

A mash tun is really good for making cheese in. Nice and insulated.



There are some really good recipies on here

http://www.cheesemaking.com/recipes/recipedetails.html

You can get everything over here.


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## OzPaleAle (10/11/14)

Found this Youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLxvyTB_m4VcFYiNNhWnwAA


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## TimT (10/11/14)

_A mash tun is really good for making cheese in. Nice and insulated._


I just whack a pot in the sink! Running hot and cold water means I can keep it exactly the right temp.


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## wobbly (12/11/14)

I have made a couple of batches of "Farm House Cheddar" and have the basics under control

What I want t do now is see if I can replicate the "Mersey Valley Sharp and Crumbly Classic Vintage Cheddar"

Any advise on how to get that flavour and texture would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

Wobbly


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## TimT (12/11/14)

Age.


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## TimT (12/11/14)

Ah, I see - yes, the Farmhouse Cheddar recipe is the 'quick' version. It makes a nice crumbly cheddar that has flavour that will improve with age but to really get the full cheddar flavour you need to use another, slightly more complicated, recipe. Look up 'traditional cheddar'.

Basically you have to go through a process of cheddaring - you drain fresh curds in a colander. They'll stick into one another. Then you cut them up into slabs. You put these slabs back into the pot (which you've drained of whey) and keep them at a constant temperature of around 37 degrees celsius. Flip 'em every 15 minutes. They'll keep on expressing whey (drain it off regularly), becoming quite dry, acidifying and gaining more flavour as the lacto-bacilli gets stronger and produces more and more lactic acid from milk. After a couple of hours, the curds will no longer be soft and mooshy but will have a texture like chicken flesh. 

Then you tear the curds apart again, salt them, and pour them into a cheese mould and press them together under weight.

This last bit is probably the trickiest part of the process, because sometimes it can be quite difficult to get them to stick together after all that (they're not quite so adhesive as fresh curds). The trick is to maintain a warm ambient atmosphere, over 30 degrees celsius. Some cheesemakers recommend putting the cheese press back in the pot and keeping the pot in the sink so you can control the surrounding temperature with water. You might do it over the top of a hot oven, too. And you can warm the cheesecloth you pour the curds into and sterilise it at the same time by chucking it 15 minutes before in boiling water. (Body temp ought to do it, too, so you could probably provide a nice temp to the curds by just placing your hands round the cheese mould).

Anyway, point is, by keeping it at a warm ambient temp you can persuade the curds to stick to one another and get a good clean knit. Result: a good block of cheddar cheese!

Rikki Carroll's Traditional Cheddar recipe can be found here. Maybe you have one of your own! Once you've mastered the cheddaring process, you'll be able to do several related recipes - Leicester, and Derby Cheese. All good stuff. You'll really taste the difference - Farmhouse cheese is good, but the taste of traditional cheddar is one another level.


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## TimT (12/11/14)

_This last bit is probably the trickiest part of the process, because sometimes it can be quite difficult to get them to stick together after all that (they're not quite so adhesive as fresh curds). The trick is to maintain a warm ambient atmosphere, over 30 degrees celsius_.

Actually this all makes me think that the perfect time to make a cheddar might be a hot summer's day. In the middle of the day, when the temp is pushing 30 inside, might be the best time to end the cheddaring process, to salt the curds, and then to press them together lightly until they knit.

The drawback from this, of course, is that then you're going to have to age the cheese. I do all mine at room temp but summer temps are just too hot - cheeses and cheese bacteria like a nice cool 10 - 15 degrees. If their temps are around 30 they start weeping and sweating. Of course, if you have a fridge you use for fermentation, that can easily be turned into a cheese cave.


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## wobbly (14/11/14)

Other than a fermentation fridge (which I don't have anymore) what other options do people use for a "cheese cave"?? And how do you maintain the humidity at around the 85% 

Cheers

wobbly


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## pk.sax (14/11/14)

wobbly said:


> Other than a fermentation fridge (which I don't have anymore) what other options do people use for a "cheese cave"?? And how do you maintain the humidity at around the 85%
> 
> Cheers
> 
> wobbly


I do mine in my williamswarn machine. Fully automatic pressure ripened cheese, he recommends using his special milk powder and premixed culture.

Ymmv


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## TimT (15/11/14)

I don't use a fridge so I just make cheeses at the right time in the year. Temps are pretty good for a lot of cheese making in Melbourne in the depths of winter.

_Fully automatic pressure ripened cheese, he recommends using his special milk powder and premixed culture._

'Special milk powder'? You mean... using powdered milk to which you add water when you're making cheese? Why would you do that? Milk is at its best when fresh, unpasteurised, and rich and creamy, with nothing taken out. The more stuff has been done to milk before you get to make cheese with it, the worse results you'll get.


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## wobbly (15/11/14)

practicalfool said:


> I do mine in my williamswarn machine. Fully automatic pressure ripened cheese, he recommends using his special milk powder and premixed culture.
> 
> Ymmv


Good to see you living up to your username as usual

Wobbly


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## HBHB (15/11/14)

Bomber Watson said:


> Spent the last few nights reading the thread first post to last.
> 
> I want to make cheese.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with the Mad Millies stuff at all. Works fine for those of us who use it.

Martin


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/11/14)

Its really your cultures and moulds that make the cheese...bit like yeast and beer.

You can make it in anything you like, but if your nain ingrediants are shit, you end products will be shit


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## Bomber Watson (15/11/14)

HBHB said:


> Nothing wrong with the Mad Millies stuff at all. Works fine for those of us who use it.
> 
> Martin


THanks mate, thats what i was chasing. 

Next trip there i will suss the gear out properly and see what i wanna get 

Cheers.


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## welly2 (2/12/14)

Just ordered myself some cheese making gear from Green Living Australia. Bought an Italian cheese kit (Mozzarella, Parmesan, Provolone and a few others) and a hard cheese kit (Feta, Farmhouse Cheddar, Colb, Monterey Jack, Gloucester etc.). Seems to come with everything I need but only query is whether I'm going to need a cheese press, particularly for the hard cheese? Or perhaps that's something I could pick up at a later date?


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## paulyman (2/12/14)

Wow, just found this topic. Will read through over the next couple of days.

I already have a wine fridge to cellar my wines, might be able to fit some cheeses in there if I can work out a way to up the humidity, a sistema or something similar with a small cup of water in it perhaps.


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## gap (2/12/14)

Welly2 , you will need some sort of cheese press to properly make hard cheeses like cheddars etc.

Google Dutch Cheese Press , if you are vaguley handy with wood you can make one for not many dollars.


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## welly2 (2/12/14)

Cool, thank you gap! I shall look into it.


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## welly2 (18/1/15)

I made cheese tonight. Mozzarella:







Not bad for a first proper effort. It certainly tastes like cheese!


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## welly2 (18/1/15)

Bleh. It tasted of mozzarella but it's too rubbery. Back to the drawing board.


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## TimT (18/1/15)

I think mozza is meant to be eaten fresh or, if not, refrigerated straight away - maybe if you left them out a while the texture changed? Anyway looks like you've got the basics down, now it's just time for fiddling with the fine details.


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## welly2 (18/1/15)

Yeah, I ended up starting a bit late and didn't get finished until the early hours of the morning so wasn't going to start scoffing cheese at 2am  I did refrigerate it when I was done but I suspect I didn't knead it enough. Maybe? I'm not sure. I shall do some more reading but it was certainly pliable when I got the curds together in the hot water. I don't think I cut the curds very well either as they became a little bit too "bitty" as well. Anyway, it's a start!


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## TimT (18/1/15)

I struggle with mozzarella too; the whole curdling process is a bit more finickity - not just heat + acid or heat + rennet + culture, but heat + acid + rennet + culture - and I'm never sure if the kneading really does the trick. You're supposed to get the curds to the stage where you can stretch them right across the room but I can never manage that - however, after kneading them for a bit they do seem to reach a 'stable' point.

I've read it helps for the milk to have lots of culture in it. So start off with raw milk. Also focusing on milk pH is probably important. Perhaps if you made them with the original mozzarella milk - buffalo milk - you'd get much better reswults too.... though good luck milking that buffalo.

Anyway, first proper effort? I'd say damn good job. Especially for a cheese like mozzarella!


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## welly2 (18/1/15)

I reckon I might try a different cheese and get the basics right. This site seems to be full of useful info: http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese_course/Cheese_course.htm


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## AndrewQLD (18/1/15)

It's been a while since I made any cheese, here's some Cows milk Feta. Turned out in between a soft Danish feta and a hard Greek feta.


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## TimT (18/1/15)

I've found haloumi is a satisfying and fairly easy cheese to make. Easier than mozzarella but with a similar principal involved - you heat the curds in the final steps which not only effectively kills off remaining bacteria, but helps the proteins develop in the cheese, giving the haloumi it's chewy, chickeny texture. No troublesome needing step, though - you just have to keep the curds in the right temperature range.


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## welly2 (18/1/15)

I'm thinking about making feta, it's a cheese I really like and the recipe I have here, it looks fairly straight forward. Nothing too complex. One for sometime this week!


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## welly2 (25/1/15)

Cheese #2

My feta just before the brining.




I made this block and also another one with a slightly different method. The other is in cubes and is ripening just with salt rather than in a brine bath. So we'll see what happens.


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## AndrewQLD (25/1/15)

looks great welly, try to use a brine container that is just a little lager than the cheese or it will become too salty.


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## welly2 (25/1/15)

Thanks for the tip, Andrew. The brine container is a reasonable bit bigger than the cheese (it's not huge but big enough) although the brine isn't really strong either. I'm not sure of the exact percentage but used 300g of salt and 2l of water. A taste of the brine tells me it isn't crazy strong! Anyway, we shall see! But good tip, I'll look for a container that's closer to the size of my cheese mould.


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## Florian (25/1/15)

As for Mozarella:

I have only made it once but it turned out absolutely perfect, not the slightest bit of rubberiness, just that soft but firm layery mozarella bite.

I remember following a video to the absolute letter so I just dug it out, but forgot that it was actually in German. Still, I think the secret is mostly in the 'pulling' part from about 4 minutes onwards which doesn't require any translation.

They also have an English video, I'd assume that the process is pretty much the same but I haven't specifically compared the video.

The German video, 100% success guaranteed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0yOZ71OeOg

The English language one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YIYjOFwLWw


Overall I have stopped cheese making for now, I find the the few hours of work and waiting time are in no comparison to the 30 seconds it takes me to eat the end product.
At least with a keg of beer the drinking time usually exceeds the time spent at brew day.


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## welly2 (25/1/15)

I may have to give mozzarella another go. Just with different milk and perhaps that technique above. Looks good!

Cheers


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## Tahoose (5/2/15)

Any Melbourne guys know a good place to get reasonably priced in homogenised milk from? 

Giving mozzarella a go this weekend for a first time.


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## TimT (5/2/15)

Do you mean unhomogenised milk?

Cheapest homogenised from Woolies, obviously.

Cheapest unhomogenised.... probably from a direct dairy outlet. Maybe La Latteria on Elgin St, Carlton.

You can get the Schultz brand at various organic shops. The Fruit Peddlers probably have the cheapest price.


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## gap (5/2/15)

My local Woolies (Katoomba, NSW) sells unhomogenised milf for about $3.50 for 2 litres


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## TimT (5/2/15)

What brand, Gap?

There's a brand of unhogenised milk you can get in some Woolies and Coles. Well, it says unhomogenised but I can't tell much difference. I think they skim off so much cream anyway that it hardly matters. Can't remember, it might be just their in-store 'Woolworths Organic' or 'Coles Organic' or it might be in the Pauls milk range.


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## Mardoo (5/2/15)

St. David's does a really nice unhomoginised milk that you can get at better IGA's/Leo's/Maxi.


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## gap (5/2/15)

It is from the Manning Valley near Taree , north of Newcastle, not a Woolworths brand.

It is not as nice as the unhomogenised Jersey milk I can get from a couple of Farmers Markets.


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## Tahoose (5/2/15)

Thanks guys, saw some Paul's stuff before at $7/ltr. 

Does anybody here use standard supermarket milk and just use calcium chloride?


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## Florian (5/2/15)

Yep, standard supermarket milk worked perfectly for my mozarella.


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## wobbly (5/2/15)

In WA Woolworths stock a brand called "Farmers Choice" which comes in hi-lo as well as "cream on top" and unhomogenised and it's $3:00 for 2 litres so no need to add calcium chloride of cream back in to the "cream on top" when making either Cheddar or soft cheese such as Brie or Camembert

Cheers

Wobbly


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## TimT (5/2/15)

I usually couldn't be arsed with the calcium chloride. I've used a variety of milks for my cheeses. I generally avoid standardised supermarket milk as it has less character.


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## indica86 (5/2/15)

http://www.mistymountainfarms.com.au/

and
http://www.mungallicreekdairy.com.au/products.html

Both available up here and terrific milks. Made paneer a while ago and it was so good.
Awesome fatty rich milk.
$2.50 a litre or a bit less.


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## Tahoose (8/2/15)

Just tasted the home made mozzarella. Yum!!

Won't get in trouble for this hobby, the girlfriend is hands on and keen to do it also.


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## motch02 (31/7/15)

How does everyone here go about ageing their cheeses? not sure if I can go about having another fridge in the house


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## gap (31/7/15)

motch02 said:


> How does everyone here go about ageing their cheeses? not sure if I can go about having another fridge in the house


You need to mature the cheese at a reasonably constant temperature between 10C and 15C so is difficult to do without a fridge or a good cellar.


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## TimT (31/7/15)

Nah you can just age them in your house. Winter and early spring will be good for your cheese. 

Temperature control can become an issue with some of the cheeses where you have bacterial blooms (Munsters) or those with a more complicated microflora - Swiss cheese which needs to be aged a week or so at 25 degrees celsius to allow the Proprionic bacteria to develop; Stiltons which need the right moisture to let the penicillium (blue bits) to flourish. 

But your Cheddars and Jacks and Goudas and many many other hard cheeses can just be aged in the room through most of autumn/winter/spring. The temps inside will be around 10-15 degrees - or a bit lower on frosty nights.

Traditional method was to have a cellar for ageing of cheeses (also, I suppose, for lagering of beers). 

Watcha making, Motch?


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## motch02 (31/7/15)

I've only just started down this path, I made a feta which has turned out a bit soft but is still really tasty. Next time I'll let it dry a bit more

But my second cheese is the Belper Knolle off of cheesemaking.com. it smells amazing, I'm just drying it at the moment with the fan running on it under the stairs of my house.

I'll likely just move it to the minibar fridge when it's done drying and turn it on the lowest setting.


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## TimT (31/7/15)

Just looked the recipe up for this Belper Knolle. Sounds fun. If I were doing them I'd probably just leave them out. Cheeses will develop a good rind in about a week and will keep draining for a few more weeks as the insides get a proper cheesey texture, and the flavour will keep intensifying as it ages. Given you're in Sydney, temps will on average probably be a tad higher than those in Melbourne but they're still fairly good for cheesemaking.


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## motch02 (31/7/15)

Should I worry about humidity? Was thinking once its dried covering them during the day and leaving them open overnight


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## TimT (31/7/15)

I don't think humidity will be an issue. It doesn't say anything in the recipe about controlling humidity does it? 

It does get more humid in Sydney, true. Mould in those environments is the biggest problem. Put a covering on it and you might trap the humidity in and make it a more mould-friendly environment.


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## motch02 (31/7/15)

It does mention: "Finally the cheese can go to the cave with about 52-56F and 75-80% moisture. This higher moisture will now help in the aging of this cheese as it continues to dry to the center"


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## TimT (31/7/15)

Interesting, I don't focus too much on humidity because my cheeses usually don't require that sort of control. So apart from providing a hospitable environment for certain specialised types of bacteria and fungus, which you're not trying to do here, I'm not sure exactly what the point would be. Possibly to help it develop a rind? 

I googled Sydney's humidity and it's just over 52%, so you're not too far off anyway. I'd be tempted to just leave them out anyway. The next step up is to get a ripening box for your cheese - one of those plastic tubs from Coles ought to do it - and control the humidity by putting something wet in there, and then placing a lid on (with a gap to let humidity escape). Or, I dunno. Putting them on a grille with a tub of water below them, so the evaporating water provides the extra humidity.

Up to you I guess! You must have several little balls sitting around so I suppose you could do an experiment!


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## motch02 (31/7/15)

Haha thanks heaps for the help!

I may just need to experiment, they just smell so good I don't want to ruin anything.

Do you have any styles of cheese you coukd recommend?, I'm up for something interesting


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## TimT (31/7/15)

Look up 'ripening box cheese making' and 'humidity control in cheese making' and you should come up with some good online tutorials about that. 

At the moment I'm ageing some Cheddars, a few Goudas, some Jack cheeses and some Edam Boulles. The Jacks are especially easy and make a good fresh or aged cheese - look up recipes for 'Jack cheese' or 'Monterey Jack'. 

Occasionally I do something for the next day, like a haloumi or a gbejna - a Maltese cheese that I learned about from my friend Joe at the pub, would you believe! Gbejnas are really easy; just curdle some milk, slice up the curd roughly and ladle it into a cheese mould, salt the curds straight away to make the whey run out, cover them over with cheesecloth and let them drain on a board for a few hours. Flip 'em a few times maybe. After that they'll have their shape and you can slice them up and eat them fresh, or use them as a pizza cheese.


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## motch02 (31/7/15)

very very excited about this endeavour!


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## Truman42 (1/8/15)

Do you have to make a starter culture the day before? Some recipes I've looked at say to, and I'm assuming this is better but others say to just add the dried starter culture directly to the milk once heated. 

With this shitty Melbourne weather today it's a good day to make cheese but I don't have a prepared starter culture.


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## TimT (1/8/15)

It's best to make a starter culture beforehand, that way the bacteria are thriving and growing and will be ready to munch on whatever you throw their way. Same principle as with yeast starters really! I always have a starter culture ready because we just use the starter as our house yoghurt, and we replenish that every week


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## Truman42 (9/8/15)

After 7 days my Camemberts are almost fully covered with white mould and are coming along nicely.


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## Truman42 (9/8/15)

Today the missus and I made some blues. But had an issue. I used the recipe for blue cheese on the country brewer website.
It says to use 5 mls of rennet. (For a 7.5 litre batch). Im using the epicurean brand rennet which is the same that's used by country brewer and the bottle says to use 2.5 mls for 10 litres of milk.
I didn't know if I should stick to the recipe or use what's typed in the bottle and in the end used what the recipe said which was 5 Mls.

I waited five minutes and did the bowl spinning test to get my flocculation multiplier. The bowl didn't spin at all so my floc multiplier was 5 minutes x 6 = 30 minutes. I left it for 45 mnutes as per the recipe though.

Not sure what the effect of to much rennet will have on the final result, but hopefully it will be okay.


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## danestead (3/1/16)

Just did my first cheeses this week. A halloumi, camembert and whey ricotta. The halloumi and ricotta turned out excellent. The camembert I will know in about 4 weeks I guess.

Im going to mature the camembert in my waeco which ive plugged into my spare stc1000 and ive put the temperature probe in a small opened glass of water to help increase humidity and to try keep a more stable temperature. Im not sure if this is the right thing to do or not. Ive also ordered a $20 hygrometer on ebay which seems to be a decent model. Ill check the calibration with the salt test when it arrives.

A couple of questions. 

I see PH levels mentioned in a few different articles. Does anyone test their PH and if so can you give me a quick run down on why this may or may not be important or useful?

Do people just use kosher salt or any supermarket salt which states that it isnt iodised?

Im a bit confused as to what the 2 different cultures are that get added to camembert. I believe 1 is the white mold but what is the purpose of the other one? Also I see some people do a starter the day before. What does this accomplish and is there a 'yeast calculator' type thing rather than just having a stab in the dark? Or is this not required when using the freeze dried type mad millie cultures?

Cheers.


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## TimT (3/1/16)

1. pH, nope, don't check it, though I should. For the cheeses I do I find it's not mattering so much at the moment - though it probably would help with mozzarella, which I do on occasion. 

2. Kosher salt or non-iodised salt are pretty much the same thing. Other terms you'll find in use are pickling salt and cheese salt. Again, same thing - the point is just the lack of iodine, so the salt is not harmful to the cultures. I've heard some cheesemakers use crystal salt, you know, the rocky stuff, because it's better for the cheese or some crap like that. We have a big bucket of dehydrated lake salt with lots of interesting natural salts byproducts in there - it even has trace amounts of iodine, but not to harmful levels. In fact I think it might have come from the bacteria living in the lake. 

3. Don't make camembert, can't really comment. Though what is the second culture you add called? At a guess I'd say it would be a surface culture that would contribute to the rind or maybe the smell? 

4. It's always good to have active bacteria, rather than bacteria that have just been sitting around in a fridge for a week or a month, or bacteria spores - hence the use of starters. I wouldn't bother trying to calculate the amounts; bacteria multiplies exponentially, doubling every hour - or maybe every half hour. Anyway, within a few hours you'll have countless bacteria swimming through your cheese - as it should be! Not sure about the other cultures - surface moulds and the like. Never seen any equivalent of yeast calculators.


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## danestead (3/1/16)

TimT said:


> 3. Don't make camembert, can't really comment. Though what is the second culture you add called? At a guess I'd say it would be a surface culture that would contribute to the rind or maybe the smell?


Mesophilic aromatic culture I believe. Cheers for the other responses.


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## TimT (3/1/16)

Huh, well, the mesophilic aromatic culture would be the proper starter, the one that starts the milk curdling, turns the lactose into lactic acid, and contributes the basic flavour, texture, and aroma to your cheese.


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## danestead (3/1/16)

TimT said:


> Huh, well, the mesophilic aromatic culture would be the proper starter, the one that starts the milk curdling, turns the lactose into lactic acid, and contributes the basic flavour, texture, and aroma to your cheese.


That's interesting, I thought the rennet was what did that. I think I need to read a little more.


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## gap (4/1/16)

danestead said:


> That's interesting, I thought the rennet was what did that. I think I need to read a little more.


The rennet is the setting agent. The culture does as TimT describes.


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## TimT (4/1/16)

Rennet is the enzyme that helps the process along. Left on its own a mesophilic culture will curdle milk anyway into a kind of yoghurt. But with a little rennet it will curdle much quicker, and more efficiently.


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## danestead (4/1/16)

Ok I did some more reading last night, mainly on making camemberts. This is how I think I understand the process. I am a by the numbers guy and like to get pretty technical so that repeatability is possible.

Heat milk to 32 and add cacl if using homogenised milk.
Add the aromatic mesophilic and white mole culture. My stuff is the mad Millie dry stuff and is mixed up in a sachet together.
Let it do its thing of converting the lactose over 90 minutes at 32 deg. Is it now I am chasing a PH target? 6.2 - 6.6ish I think I may of read? If the PH is too high do I just wait longer?
Add the rennet. I am aiming for an ideal coagulation time of 12-15mins and then multiply by 5-6 to get my total time I let it form the curd. Do I also test the whey PH here and aim for a certain number of is it only in the above step?
Cut curd and proceed like normal.

Cheers


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## TimT (4/1/16)

I am not certain about pH questions, my guess would be so long as they are together the curds and whey will stay the same pH but I could be wrong.


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## gap (4/1/16)

I have successfully made a lot of cheese (not mozzarella) and have never bothered to test for PH.
I heat milk to 32C and add cultures. Wait 40 minutes and then add rennet. Test if set after 40 minutes and then process with rest of process.


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## TimT (4/1/16)

pH of milk can vary, I'd probably tend to be a bit more careful about milk variety and pH control if I was doing something like camembert with an extra culture. I know the lactobacilli seems to be adaptable to different environments, but other cultures might be more fragile.


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## breakbeer (6/1/16)

Got one of those Mad Millie cheese making kits for Christmas. Just started on my first batch of Goats Feta! 

Using my Brauduino controlled brewpot as the water bath to keep it at a perfect 37d, which helps justify to swmbo the money I've spent on it 




I plan on splitting it into various jars to make a few different flavoured varieties 

Any suggestions from people who have done the same?

I was thinking:
Herbs: Rosemary, Oregano, Thyme & Peppercorns
Chilli: chopped red chillies
Not sure what else to try

I hope this works


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## TimT (6/1/16)

I might be tempted to suggest it might be a good idea to toast the herbs a bit in the oven to kill off wild yeasts. But as you are splitting up your fettas maybe don't bother as it's incredibly unlikely that both will fail. (Also, the most likely point at which wild yeast enters into a cheese would be right at the beginning, before the lacto bacilli has had a chance to create lactic acid or curdle the cheese.)


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## breakbeer (6/1/16)

Not sure what I did wrong but it didn't set properly. I followed to instructions to a T & have ended up with approx 100g in my moulds & I'm not even sure if that'll set. Devastated


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## gap (6/1/16)

breakbeer said:


> Not sure what I did wrong but it didn't set properly. I followed to instructions to a T & have ended up with approx 100g in my moulds & I'm not even sure if that'll set. Devastated
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much milk did you start off with?


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## TimT (6/1/16)

Give us some details about the instructions and we might be able to help.....


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## breakbeer (6/1/16)

Bring 4L of Goat Milk to 37d
Add 2ml Calcium Chloride, 1/64 (drop) tsp starter culture & 2 dissolved rennet tablets while stirring
Keep at 37d for 1.5 hours
Cut curd into cubes (this is where I think I went wrong, didn't really cube up until later & didn't seem firm enough)
Keep at 37d for another hour
Gently stir every 5 mins for 30 mins (this dissolved it into a soupy/yoghurt consistency)
Scoop curds into moulds using a draining spoon


So, should I have left it longer than 1.5 hours in the first step until the milk had set more firmly? Not enough rennet? Not enough starter culture (Mesophilic)? 

No idea where I went wrong?

I've lined a collander with cheese cloth & sat it on top of a pot then poured what's left into that, it's draining slowly but I don't reckon it'll be any good


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## TimT (6/1/16)

1/64 of a teaspoon starter culture???? I suspect your problem is there.


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## TimT (6/1/16)

If it was a dehydrated culture, you would have got best results by reculturing it overnight in some milk (8-12 hours), and then adding some of the yoghurt to the milk. For my batches - usually 4 L - I add about 2-3 tablespoons of culture/yoghurt. 

If it was an active culture - well, see above. Adding 1/64 of a teaspoon would have got the bacteria in there, yes, but there would have been less than usual. 

Maybe there was a mistake in the recipe? I've never seen such a direction in a cheese recipe before.


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## breakbeer (6/1/16)

Have they given me the wrong culture? It says it's for Yoghurt & Cheese, but there's more of an emphasis on Yoghurt. It says Thermophilic & Mesophilic on the back of the sachet





Also, here's a pic of the recipe to confirm the quantity




It does seem like an extremely small amount, I just figured it must be really powerful stuff


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## TimT (6/1/16)

Yeah, fetta is usually made with a mesophilic culture. I looked up the cultures on the Mad Millie website before and they say each sachet is suitable for a 4 L batch - ie, you'd want to add substantially more than 1 drop. I'd contact the Mad Millie company. It looks like somebody's goofed up.


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## TimT (6/1/16)

For fetta the cultures you'd be looking at would be the two mesophilic cultures on this website. 

Thermophilic culture is typically not used in making fetta. It would just be getting warmed up at 37 Celsius, whereas 37 C is more at the top of a mesophilic culture's range. 

To summarise, the instructions look bad and it looks like the culture has been mixed up too.


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## breakbeer (6/1/16)

Thanks heaps Tim T, I'll give them a call tomorrow for sure

Glad you were able to pinpoint the problem for me. I'll have another go at it with the correct type & amount of starter culture

Cheers!


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