# Is Dextrose Okay In Yeast Starters



## bullsneck (18/10/10)

Hey all.

Just about to build up a yeast starter of 1469.

Still a fair noob at yeast farming/starting/harvesting.

Is it okay to use dextrose for yeast starting?

Thanks.

Bullsneck.


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## Dazza_devil (18/10/10)

I wouldn't.
Only because I've been told that it makes the yeast lazy when it comes time to eating a more complex substance such as malt.


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## bullsneck (18/10/10)

That seems to ring a bell.

Thanks, I was counting on a speedy response.


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## Bribie G (18/10/10)

I usually keep a kilo bag of LDME from the local kit n bit LHBS for doing starters, and seal it up with one of those tube / stick sealing rods you get from kitchen shops.


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## MHB (18/10/10)

Generally around 30% Dextrose and 70% light malt extract with a touch of Nutrient and a bit of dissolved O2 is considered ideal, so yes it's Ok in a starter, just maybe not on its own!

MHB


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## big78sam (18/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> I wouldn't.
> I because I've been told that it makes the yeast lazy when it comes time to eating a more complex substance such as malt.



+1 I received the same advice from G&G and have read similar here. 

I did this once before receiving this advice and it took 3 weeks to ferment fully (Edit: This was about 50/50 dextrose/LDME) This was a lager which I don't normally brew so can't comment on how long it would normally have taken. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.


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## BrenosBrews (18/10/10)

No, do not used dextrose. All LDME is the way to go.


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## Banshee (18/10/10)

100% malt and if you desire a hop pellet.


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## Bubba (19/10/10)

If the starter is malt, the yeast attenuates malt better, if the starter is dex, the yeast won't attenuate malt as well.
Stick to malt for starters.


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## BrenosBrews (19/10/10)

Banshee said:


> 100% malt and if you desire a hop pellet.



I still do not understand the fascination with putting a hop pellet or two in a starter? Yes, 2 hop pellets cost **** all but what's the point?


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## Fourstar (19/10/10)

BrenosBrews said:


> I still do not understand the fascination with putting a hop pellet or two in a starter? Yes, 2 hop pellets cost **** all but what's the point?



hop resins/oils can have an effect on yeast production, its minimal but its an effect nonetheless. you are making a starter to make healthy yeast cells, not to make beer.

http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm

all your questions are answered in the above link.


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## felten (19/10/10)

I think its referenced in a few old yeast culturing articles. The antibacterial components in hops are just going to hinder your yeast if anything, to what extent is debatable. (doesn't seem to be much though)


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## BrenosBrews (19/10/10)

Fourstar said:


> hop resins/oils can have an effect on yeast production, its minimal but its an effect nonetheless. you are making a starter to make healthy yeast cells, not to make beer.
> 
> http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm
> 
> all your questions are answered in the above link.



Yeah, so that's what I thought. There is no reason to put any hops in a starter. I think in Yeast it says something along the lines of "if you need to add hops for antibacterial purposes you need to review your processes."


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## Banshee (19/10/10)

I add a hop pettet because I have read that hops can act like an antiseptic, but to much could inhibit hop growth and development. You don't have to add hops but you can. I have had success with and without so it's up to you how you cultivate your yeast. It also gets the yeast acustomed to the acidic wort you will be pitching it into.


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## manticle (19/10/10)

I sometimes make starters with the wort to be fermented (which obviously contains hops). I have heard about the yeast retardation thing but to be honest I've noticed little difference between all DME starters and starters made with hopped wort. There's also the idea that yeast produce wort specific enzymes so adding the actual hopped wort (can only really be done if you no-chill or want to brew the same recipe on a small scale in advance) might be an advantage.

On a small scale I think it's one of those academic things - as mentioned I notice a caterpillar's nipple's worth of difference and then only on Tuesdays when I'm really observant.

Wouldn't bother adding a hop pellet to a dme starter though.


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## BjornJ (19/10/10)

I must admit I have never adding hops to starter wort, but maybe I will after reading this (again):

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-p...s-and-practices 

Awesome article on yeast starters, yeast propogation, why bother with a stir plate, etc.

She writes that adding hops to starter wort will help with reducing the chances of getting an infected starter wort.


thanks
Bjorn


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## manticle (19/10/10)

Do you have trouble with infected starter worts very often?


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## MHB (19/10/10)

When Extract is made for brewing it is made with the expectation that simple sugars will be added by the brewer. Well made well aerated wort is really the best place to start yeast (that wasnt the question asked); lacking that adding around 30% glucose/dextrose to your malt extract actually makes the starter more like a real wort than using extract alone.

A small addition of yeast nutrient (not DAP Yeast Food) makes sure the yeast has all the vitamins and minerals it needs, plenty of nitrogen (in the form of degraded protein) and a good supply of Lipids and other fatty acids, you really only need about 50-100 ppm (0.05-0.1g/L) so its not exactly going to break the bank.

MHB


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## sam (19/10/10)

MHB said:


> When Extract is made for brewing it is made with the expectation that simple sugars will be added by the brewer. Well made well aerated wort is really the best place to start yeast (that wasnt the question asked); lacking that adding around 30% glucose/dextrose to your malt extract actually makes the starter more like a real wort than using extract alone.



Ahh, so that's why extract beers taste so flabby and underattenuated. Makes sense. Do you have access to a carbohydrate profile to extract? It would be interesting to look at.

Cheers


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## Dazza_devil (19/10/10)

My later extract brews always included hops and at least 20% dextrose to aid in attenuation, only because I was going to drink them. But do either aid in improving yeast production?


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## MHB (19/10/10)

Hi Sam

Glad someone caught the implication
Actually it came up in an online study group, one of the guys worked a lab at an extract makers and he spent a lot of time sticking wort samples into an HPLC to check exactly that (the sugar to dextrin ratios). Not exactly something I've gone looking for as I make my own sugar to dextrin ratios but it makes you think, Maybe I should do some more digging. I suspect the information we would find most useful will be propriety and hard to get a hold of.

MHB


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## boriskane (23/10/10)

yo, sorry for the silly question, but would it be alright to steep some grains to get some wort for the starter? (i have munich and bb ale)

i only have dextrose and now i know i cant use that


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## BrenosBrews (23/10/10)

boris kane said:


> yo, sorry for the silly question, but would it be alright to steep some grains to get some wort for the starter? (i have munich and bb ale)
> 
> i only have dextrose and now i know i cant use that



You'd need to mash the grains. But do you live in the middle of nowhere/are you broke? A 500 gram bag of LDME isn't all that expensive.


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## boriskane (23/10/10)

ah ok.

well i was planning on doing it tonight after i drink the beer and the kmart thats close by is shut. how quickly does the yeast thats left in the bottle die off? and whatd be the best way to store it until i can culture it?

i COULD just drink the beer after i get the ldme, but i dont think thats much of a fair option really.


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## Tony (24/10/10)

its late and i didnt read the whole thread buy i asume you are AG?

If you are.... here is what i do for free starters.

After i finnish sparging, there is still a good bit of liquid held up in the malt. I leave the tap open and let this slowly dribble into a pot while i boil the brew. I usually get 2 liters form a 20 odd liter batch and 4 to 5 from a 50 liter brew.

I pour this..... unboiled into a 2 liter bottle (empty vinigar bottles are best) and freeze it. Simply thore out and boil till you get about 1.035 graviry and you have yourself an AG starter.

if you want to collect it faster... sparge with an extra couple liters and when you have your volume in the kettle..... start collecting for your future starters.

I used to put all this in the bin with the grain........ i no longer need to buy malt extract for starters and please dont use dex to grow your yeast.

cheers


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## chefsantos (2/11/13)

Wish i had found this post 1hr ago. I ran out of DME and yeast on my last brew and haven't had a chance to get to the brew shop,so I started a starter using washed yeast from an old brew and some dextrose I had.
Total rookie mistake ad lest i hadn't started the brew


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