# India Pale Ales



## kook (30/10/03)

I've been looking at the "Double" or "Imperial" IPAs that are available in the US. I'd like to try one of these but obviously cant obtain them at the moment. So, I figure I may as well try to brew my own 

My real question is I guess, how many IBUs is too many? 

At the moment I'm looking at brewing something 8.5%, 115 IBU. 

20L volume, 5kg Light LME, 650g of specialty grains and 250g of light brown sugar to bring the ABV up a little and add a slightly different flavour.

For hops I was thinking Northern Brewer for bittering (100g), and cascade along with williamette for flavour and dry hopping.

Has anyone attempted a very high ABV and IBU IPA ? How were your results?


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## big d (30/10/03)

jayse has done heaps of ipas with high ibus kook.i guess when he logs on he will be full of info on this style.its one of his favourite styles.
i will be going down this track when i get all my ag gear together so i will be having heaps of fun trialling different styles


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## jayse (30/10/03)

yep my fave subject at the moment for sure.

those beers are really in a class of there own they don't fit the guidelines for i.p.a.

i haven't done one that big yet.still working my way up.
i'll post my notes/recipes here later.i need to go and down a few pints and have a nice toke first. 

mine are around 1.065 and 65 ibu.with mostly american hops.
iam pretty much going for what i think sierra nevada celebration ale would be like.same reason i can't get the original so iam making my own original.

anyway i'll put up some info later.


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## jayse (31/10/03)

kook
the gravity of that one with the 5 kg L.M.E etc would still be in the normal i.p.a guidelines at 1.070 with just the L.M.E.

to make the higher gravity ones and up in the 70-100ibu mark you wouldn't need to worry about using any adjuncts such as sugar. because unlike the original i.p.a.s' these ones can have a much higher finishing gravity.
the idea for low finishing gravity in the old days was the help keep the bugs out.
so ours can have a lot more crystal flavour and if mashing grains you can mash much higher to balance the extra bitterness your going to use.

mine recipes are not really very good ones to convert to all extract since it is these unreal malts that need mashing that make it.i don't doubt you could do it with l.m.e but the malted barley in the coopers can is not as good as the joe white traditional malt or imc munich malt.




jayse's october india pale ale. oct 9th
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65% efficency 40 litres at o.g 1.065
ibu 60-65

11 kg pale ale malt
1 kg wheat malt
500 g cara munich.
1 kg munich
mash 68c


30 g northern brewer 9.8% 60 mins
32 g chinnook 60 mins 12.2%
33 g cascade 60 mins 5.7%


28 g cascade 15 mins
28 g cascade 10 mins

56 g cascade 5 mins
56 g cascade 1 min

nottingham ale yeast 50g.


=====================================
======================================





jayse's october 21 celebration pale ale 1.060 o.g at 45 litres
======================
=60 ibu
==========================
2500g munich malt
300g wheat malt would have been more but i run out
7000g joe white trad pale ale
2700g amc pale malt i only used this in it because i run out of joe white
300 g cara munich.
200 cararoma .


90g cenntenial 60 mins. 

28 g cenntenial 15 mins 1 plugs

28 g cascade 10 mins 2 plugs

28 g cascade 5 mins 2 plugs
28 g ekg 5 mins 2 plugs

56 g cascade 1 min 

notingham dry yeast 50 g.
o.g 1.062 45l 

======================================
========================================




this ones my lastest lcpa cloney thing.
so not as full on as the ipas but it pretty much is exactly like them but more of a session brew.
=================================================
little critters holiday ale october 2 40L 1.054 45ibu
===========================================
=========================================
6800 g joe white TRAD malt
1500 g munich malt
1500 g wheat malt
600 g cara munich

60 g northern brewer 60 mins

30 g cascade 15 mins
30 g cascade 10 mins
60 g 5 mins
60 g 1 min

mashed at 69c
american II 1272
=============================================


these still aren't as full on as your after but thats the last few brews i have done.
iam drinking the little critters now it is unreal and unlike the last one i have two kegs of this one.


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## Snow (31/10/03)

Jayse,

I tried the James Squire IPA for the first time last night. Man that is one nice brew! I love the sweet malt finish that is perfectly balanced by the hops. I was enjoying it so much, I couldn't focus on specific flavours, so "mmmm....malty...mmmm....hoppy.." is all I can remember. Do you think you'll have a crack at a clone recipe for that one?

Snow


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## Batz (31/10/03)

Jayse,
Thanks for posting your recipes , now if I wont to brew 22Lt , can I just half the grain bill ?
Cheers Batz


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## deebee (31/10/03)

I agree Snow. I don't think it's a "real" IPA whatever that means. But it is delicious stuff.

I'm crap at describing flavours but "mmm malty, mmmm hoppy" sound about right.


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## Andrew Clark (31/10/03)

Here's a recipe I'm doing saturday, can't wait for this to be ready.
Regards
Andrew

India Pale Ale
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 1/11/2003 
Style: India Pale Ale Brewer: Andrew Clark 
Batch Size: 21.50 L Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 27.11 L Boil Time: 60 min 
Equipment: Andrew's Mash Equipment Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % 
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Ale Malt (5 EBC) Grain 77.5 % 
1.00 kg Munich Malt (14 EBC) Grain 15.5 % 
0.45 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (4 EBC) Grain 7.0 % 
30.00 gm Super Alpha [13.0%] (60 min) Hops 40.8 IBU 
20.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [10.0%] (60 min) Hops 20.9 IBU 
25.00 gm Hallertauer [9.0%] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 4.7 IBU 
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.5%] (75 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 4.4 IBU 
0.28 items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.066 SG (1.050-1.075 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.016 SG (1.012-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Color: 12 EBC (16-28 EBC) Color [Color] 
Bitterness: 70.9 IBU (40.0-65.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 6.3 AAU 
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 6.6 % (5.0-7.8 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 0.6 % 
Actual Calories per 12 oz: 32 cal 


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out Mash Tun Weight: 3.50 kg 
Mash Grain Weight: 6.45 kg Mash PH: 5.4 PH 
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C 
Sparge Water: 17.75 L Adjust Temp for Equipment: No 

Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 16.82 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min 


Mash Notes
Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).


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## jayse (31/10/03)

batz
yep just half everything.

they are made using only 65% effiency because they fill my fifty litre tun to the very top and i get a lot more channelling of the sparge water resulting in less effiency.the kettle is full for these 45 litre batches also so i can't sparge all the way down to 1.010 because it won't fit.that leaves some of the extracted sugars still in the tun.leaving me with the 65% effiency.
have you measured your effiency batz?

if you make these you can use less hops on the end if you like but make sure you keep the 60 minute additions at least that amount or even more.


snow
i can't really remember much about it either.i'll have to get some more.
mine are hugely citricy/fruity.
the james squire would have lower f.g.
and more conservative hopping late with fuggles.
i will give it a go not for so much a clone but a i.p.a in the same fashion.
hows the lcpa tasting no probs from the racking tube and hop leave thing.
that last recipe above is my lastest lcpa much similar to the other one.


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## Jazman (31/10/03)

js ipa is a nice brew but it could be more bitter but then maybe im turning into a hop head


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## jayse (3/11/03)

still haven't worked out how many ibu is to much but for over 100 i think you would be going for more like a og 1.100 beer with a f.g of around 1.020 so its not really ipa.
i would stick with og 1.075 and 75 ibu to start .
anyway from some award winning recipes i have seen 100 ibu would not be too much for og 1.075 .
iam just working my way up there.so far they have been very well balanced and could easily use more bitterness.
a lot of the american ones seem to match the og with bitterness ie.1.070 70ibu.
so thats what i have been doing so far but they are so well balanced that you don't get that stick to your ribs bitterness.
the next one though will be the huge ipa.


anyway i don't think you could over do the 60 minute addition.
i know i haven't yet.


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## Snow (3/11/03)

Jayse, I racked the LCPA last week, using a new scourer on the end of the racking cane. It worked great. The brew tasted bloody beautiful from the hydrometer tube. I'll be CCing for a week before bottling.

Snow.


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## crackers (4/11/03)

hey guys
im thinking of doing a brew along the line of the james squire ipa
as follows for 23L batch

5kg - pale ale malt
1kg - munich malt

60min - northern brewer 30g
30min - fuggle 50g
5min - fuggle 30g
dry - fuggle 20g

approx calcs
sg 1.061 (@75% efficiency)
fg 1.015
ibu 55+ish ??
alc 6%abv

its going to be my first all grain brew, dont want it too hard
what yeast would be recommended for this brew
i have wyeast 1084 already, thought of giving it a go

how does all this sound
all comments (good or bad) welcome

cheers
crackers


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## GMK (5/11/03)

Crackers

Your recipee looks good so far:
The 1084 - i think this is the Irish ALe yeast - if so good choice.
I think you also need some Xtal malt in there.
250 xtal
100 cara pils/light xtal

Optional:
150 gms of Dark Brown Sugar or
50 gms of belgian candi sugar.

Hops:
I hate fuggles - and usually use Nth Brewer and East Kent Goldings.

I would also add 10 - 15 gms of Chalk.

Hope this helps.


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## crackers (5/11/03)

thanks GMK

yep the 1084 is the irish ale, quite pleased with the results im getting from it.

what is xtal malt??
i was trying to use the stuff my local hb shop sell

the reason behing useing fuggles was the hops they use in the js ipa

how do you mean you would add chalk??
not the blackboard stuff im assuming??

cheers & thanks for your help
crackers


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## GMK (5/11/03)

Xtal stands for Crystal Malt - english is approx 150 - i think.
Light xtal is about 60 to 90 colour/roastiness i think.

Belgian Candi Sugar is the same as yellow rock sugar that you can buy from Asian grocery stores.

Chalk is calcium carbonate - most HBS stores sell it in 100gm powder form sachets.


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## crackers (5/11/03)

ahh thanks GMK
makes sense now

what affect the calcium carbonate do to the brew,
i havent come across it before.

crackers


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## GMK (5/11/03)

Crackers
IMHO 
Chalk - calcium carbonate accentuates the hop flavour/bitterness - mellowing the malt flavour.
Gypsum - Calcium Sulphate mellows the hop bitterness accentuating the malt profile.

As an example -
Pilsner Urquel is one of the highest hopped beers IBU's - but due to the soft water and high gypsum content of their water - the beer does not taste that bitter/hoppy.

Traditionally,
Hard water is used for Ales, stouts etc.
Soft water is used for Lagers/pilsners.

Hope this helps


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## crackers (5/11/03)

thanks again GMK

after a bit of searching i found your comments on another post
will look around for some. hopefully my local hbs has some.

cheers once again
crackers


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## kook (15/2/04)

Well, I finally got around to brewing an american styled IPA today. I went more for a conventional american IPA rather than the really high alcohol variety. I've done a bit of research about it and this was my final recipe (based on ingredients I had).

Hop Hit IPA (23L)

3kg Light LME
0.5kg Light DME
1kg Wheat LME
0.25kg CaraPils
0.15kg Dark Crystal
0.25kg Melanoidin
0.25kg Light Munich
30g Chinook pellets (12.2%AA) @ 60
28g Cascade plugs (4.5% AA) @ 60
10g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 20
10g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 15
10g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 10
5g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 5
5g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 4
5g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 3
5g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 2
5g Cascade pellets (5.5% AA) @ 1
WY1056 Starter (1 litre)

OG was supposed to be 1.069. Missed it by 2 points though (1.067). Its sitting at 26 in the fridge at the moment slowly cooling down. It should be about 70 IBUs. I'll be dry hopping in secondary with 25g of Cascade too. 

Should be an interesting beer, i'll give some feedback in about 3-4 weeks once its kegged  If it turns out well I might step it up a notch and try something around 1085-1090 OG and 85-95 IBUs next time.


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## joecast (15/2/04)

kook,
saw a recipie on homebrew adventures (homebrew.com i think) for an extract SN celebration. looks simple enough, so i may use that or at least a slight variation. good luck with it.
joe


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## Jovial_Monk (16/2/04)

A good traditional IPA is in the 1070-1090OG range, no sugar no grits no crystal
IBUs? Hard to calculate since the more hops you add the less bittering you extract out of them.

My trad IPA was 10K Oz lager malt, to keep the beer pale, wort boiled two hours with 410g whole Goldings. For yeast, Danstar Manchester.

I stuffed up the mash temp, it was 74C not my target 66C

I got 24L at 1084, perfect! Only attenuated to 1032, due to the high mash temp. All Sg samples tasted radical, BTW.

Racked at week one into a corny, shoved in 90g goldings as dryhop, shoved corny into my cellar where it will stay till June when the beer will be bottled, then put away for another few months--trad IPAs (1830s to 1850s) were not drunk till they were 12-14 months old.

The old Burton brewers ensured the beer attenuated right down: they could not risk fermentation continuing in the wooden barrels during the voyage to the tropics. Dryhops were added to the barrels to try and ward off infection, hence also the high alchol.

The barrels were shipped by canal from Burton to Hull. On the docks of Hull a small amount of cane sugar was added to the barrel, to keep the yeast active, again a measure to avoid infection. The barrels were filled 100%full, so any CO2 generated stayed in solution and did not form a pocket of gas and cause the barrel to explode.

Despite all this, a lot of IPA was bad by the time it reached its destination port.

As more and more Indian Civil Servants and soldiers returned to England they wanted their IPA. Since beer sold in England did not need to travel for months, and the brewers did not want to tie up capital in slowly maturing beer, IPA slowly descended in strength and bitterness and became what we now know as bitter.

The IPA guidelines these days describe a shadow of what a real IPA was.

Now, by the time a barrel of IPA reached its destination in India, Oz, NZ, Sth Africa and the US and was fit for drinking, the excessive bitterness had mellowed and the bittering compounds had turned into flavenoids. A very luscious beer. The Pacific NorthWest of the US still produces very hoppy beers for immediate drinking though a lot of the people there mature the bottles for a few years.

There is a book on IPAs by R Protz and C LaPensee available from CAMRA

IPA is a very fascinating subject on its own. It was the first true beer of the Industrial Age, and some of the famous first lager brewers got a lot of inspiration and information from touring Burton breweries.

Jovial Monk


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## kook (11/3/04)

Well, I said I'd give feedback, so I will.

I'm pleased enough with the beer. Its hopped pretty much exactly to the point I wanted. Its balanced while its in your mouth, but with a really dry bitter hoppy aftertaste (almost sticky!). The hop combination (chinook and cascade) worked great.

Its very cloudy though, I'm not sure if I'll use WY1056 next time. It didnt flocculate anywhere near as well as previous brews of 1.050 gravity or less. At the moment the keg is sitting in the back of the fridge waiting in rotation for another to empty. Hopefully some more yeast will drop out between now and then.

I plan to brew another similar beer in a fortnight or so. I've got a heap of tasmanian cascade flowers to use up, so they should be fine for flavouring and aroma.


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## Snow (11/3/04)

Kook,

it could possibly be cloudy because of the kilo of wheat malt you used. That's a fair bit, and the proteins would stay in suspension.

- Snow.


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## wedge (11/3/04)

touche


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## kook (8/4/04)

kook said:


> Well, I said I'd give feedback, so I will.
> 
> I'm pleased enough with the beer. Its hopped pretty much exactly to the point I wanted. Its balanced while its in your mouth, but with a really dry bitter hoppy aftertaste (almost sticky!). The hop combination (chinook and cascade) worked great.
> 
> Its very cloudy though, I'm not sure if I'll use WY1056 next time. It didnt flocculate anywhere near as well as previous brews of 1.050 gravity or less. At the moment the keg is sitting in the back of the fridge waiting in rotation for another to empty. Hopefully some more yeast will drop out between now and then.


 More feedback on this brew:

Hop Hit IPA
AR: 7/10 AP: 3/5 FL: 7/10 PA 3/5: OV: 16/20 (Total 3.6/5)
Pours hazy orange-amber with medium, long lasting white head. OK lacing. Cascade (grapefruit, lychee, citrus) dominates aroma, with a touch of biscuity malt behind it. Smooth medium mouthfeel. Initial taste is sweet & fruity, though very hoppy. Just enough malt there to keep the citrus flavours from becoming too strong. Very dry bitter finish. Bitterness is not as clean as I had hoped for, though clean enough considering IBUs. Long lingering cascade flavour stays in the mouth. Its like LCPA on steroids. ABV totally masked. Top stuff.



As you can see, I like it!  My next IPA is in primary at the moment, due to be racked this weekend. Its higher in IBUs, but I've tamed down the chinook and used centennial to bring up the bitterness. Also increased the ABV. The clarity has improved since last tasting, but its still pretty hazy. No yeast tastes like last time which is pleasing. I've only got about 1/5 of a keg of weizen to go before I leave this brew tapped  I'll bottle some and bring it along to the west coast brewers meeting on monday if anyone wants to see how its improved since last months meeting.


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## jayse (8/4/04)

sounds great kook.
one thing i found with mine like this is if you use northern brewer for the bittering hop (even along side chinnook if you like) you get a lot more complexity rather than all similar american hops.
i know you still get a lot of complexity out of these big beers but the NB does really well in these beers.

also another yeast option is london ale 1028 or notingham dry yeast.
i see irish ale has been mentioned but that is not a IPA yeast by a long shot being it subdues flavours esspecially hop flavour and is not dry enough.

anyway just my 2 bobs worth, jayse


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (1/6/04)

Now that I have a lovely bag of Maris Otter malt (thanks Darren  ) I plan to brew an IPA very soon.
I will be using 100% MO and Challenger hops throughout, yeast will be Nottingham.
I will mash at 66C and boil for 90 minutes. Aiming for 1080 OG and 70 IBU.
Anyone think that this mash temp would be too low?

C&B
TDA


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## Jovial_Monk (1/6/04)

The reason IPAs were fermented down to a low FG was not to keep bugs out, but to prevent the yeast chewing on remaining sugars during the voyage, thus exploding the barrels!

That that also increased the alcohol content was a bonus, but IPAs were really the small or as we now say light beers of the day! 1075 a light beer!

Jovial Monk


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## jayse (1/6/04)

T.D.A, i don't have any experience yet with marris otter, got my first sack full here ready though.
Anyway i don't think 66c is too low this is what i mash my beers like this at. I haven't done one that big yet though.

Iam gunna do one along the same lines but only 1.060 and some fuggles aswell.
Will use notingham the same as you.

Cheers Jayse


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## Jovial_Monk (2/6/04)

Mark, 66c is what I aimed at with my brew. these beers were made to attenuate right down. And OG 1080 is perfect for an IPA!

If you want the traditional pale color use half Maris Otter and half lager malt.

Jovial Monk


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (2/6/04)

Thanks JM, will go 100%MO which by the way has an EBC of 5.2.
If it's not pale enough I can always brew it again :lol: 

C&B
TDA


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## Gulf Brewery (2/6/04)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> I will mash at 66C and boil for 90 minutes. Aiming for 1080 OG and 70 IBU.
> Anyone think that this mash temp would be too low?


Hi TDA

I mashed mine last one that had 40IBU at 67 and it was too high, ended up with a bit too much mouthfeel for my liking and not balanced enough by the hops. I think that 66-67 range should be OK at 70IBU .

Cheers
Pedro


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (3/6/04)

Thanks for the input Pedro. 66C it is then.

C&B
TDA


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (21/6/04)

Amongst all the shit going down at my place on the weekend I managed to get an IPA on. I toned it down a little from what I was going to do.

*Balltearer IPA*

OG 1070 
IBU 50

6.7kgs Maris Otter Pale Malt (Bairds)

30g Challenger 7% (60 min)
20g Challenger 7% (30 min)
30g Challenger 7% (15 min)
20g Challenger 7% (5 min)
20g Challenger 7% (0 min)

Nottingham Ale Yeast

I mashed at 66C and boiled for 90 minutes.

I missed the OG by 2 points and ended up with 1068. This was cause I didn't boil enough off but ended up with 2 litres more than I planned for.

I tasted jayse's Demon Ale last weekend and was extremely impressed, unbelievably full bodied and great bittering flavour.
Definately not a session beer though  

C&B
TDA


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## jayse (21/6/04)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Snipped
> >Definately not a session beer though


 Depends who your having a session with. :lol: :chug: 
Your right though, even the version I made at 1.056 and 40 ibu is not a session beer, unless your insane like me. :blink: 

Anyway look forward to tasting the I.P.A T.D.A.

Cheers Jayse


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