# Dead Set Biabginner with 19L BigW Stockpot



## Shaz_au (1/11/16)

Hey Guys and Gals,

I'm Shaz from Mount Gambier in SA. I've done a few extract brews over the years but I've really only been happy with the taste of one batch (a 150 lashes clone) the rest had a bit of a cidery taste that I didn't like, probably my fault! I thought I'd give BIAB a go and I received the pot and bag for a present so now I've got no excuses. Please note that I tend to research the crap out of things rather than getting on and doing them so I'd love some advice on getting it right and keeping things simple.

I've got:

standard 19L stockpot from BigW
Homemade voile bag to suit
basic homebrew equipment that you'd get in the older style coopers kit
access to tap water or "spring" water

Last night I tested out the pot and the stove. I found my electric element stove can bring 17 litres of cold water to the boil (eventually) with the lid on but cannot maintain a rolling boil with the lid off. I also found that water expands when heated and my pot started to boil over! So the plan is to insulate some of the pot walls using a rubber mat similar to this: https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/14710/?page=1 Stupidly I didn't work out the boil off rate at the same time.

Recipe wise I was wondering if I should start with the All Amarillo APA (for Mini-BIAB) recipe that is used in the BIABrewer.info guide? http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=153 

So can I use my standard sized fermenter with this small batch? Would I be complicating things too much by getting one of those green shed 10L blue containers with the tap and doing no chill and then fermenting in that too?

Thanks for reading my wall of text!
Cheers,
Shaz


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## mtb (1/11/16)

Welcome on board Shaz.

Your cidery flavours from previous brews might have been infection or another process-related issue that you won't solve by going BIAB. Don't get me wrong - I highly recommend that you go BIAB / all grain - but I'd hate for you to put all your effort into your first batch, only for it to taste cidery too.

This great resource lists the following for "cidery" flavors;
Cidery
Cidery flavors can have several causes but are often the result of adding too much cane or corn sugar to a recipe. One component of a cidery flavor is acetaldehyde which has a green-apple character. It is a common fermentation byproduct and different yeasts will produce different levels of it depending on the recipe and temperature. Cidery flavors are encouraged by warmer than normal temperatures and can be decreased by lagering.

If you bottle with table/cane sugar, grab yourself some carbonation drops instead. They won't contribute the same off flavours, in my experience


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## LAGERFRENZY (1/11/16)

G'day Shaz and welcome aboard. Are you fermenting with temperature control because fermenting at too high a temp can cause some nasty sour flavours.


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## damoninja (1/11/16)

Welcome to the world of all grain 

In all honesty, for the work that goes in to it and the headache it will cause you (been there done that) grab another 19L pot, it will be worth every cent at this point in time... Many a time was there spills and expletives. Unless you're only planning on doing tiny batches, but then I say again more value in doing a full batch as it's still gonna be a 4-5 hour day. 

You can brew a 10L batch in a 30L vessel no problems. 

My suggestion would be get a cube for no chill, I wouldn't personally use the same vessel to ferment for 2 reasons, first being you want your cube to be free of head space and air so it will be too small to ferement in, second they are a bitch to clean (you can clean with sodium perc or pink shit but why bother when you have an open lid fermenter?)

And agree with above, if there's an issue with off flavours, going all grain won't solve it but maybe piss you off more when you go to all the effort and end up with similar results. Don't let it discourage you from getting started though, take it as a reason to take extra care with the extra work that goes in to it

Keep brew day records!


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## Pallyjim (1/11/16)

Mate I've got a similar setup, but I only do 10l batches in the 19l pot. 
I just halve all the recipes, and find it easier to boil and chill a smaller amount of beer without all the fun toys. 
That is until I buy a wort chiller and a 40l urn!


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## Killer Brew (1/11/16)

Welcome Shaz and best of luck with AG. It seems daunting at the start but after a few you will realise it isn't that much harder and far more rewarding. 

If you haven't found it yet make sure to have read through the below thread & try out the search function in your top right also as it makes accessing a wealth of info very easy. Failing that ask away as you will find plenty of willing helpers.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/9233-frequently-asked-questions-for-the-new-brewer/


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## BKBrews (1/11/16)

Welcome to the start of a slippery slope.

I managed to do 3 5L batches using my 19L pot and BIAB, before spending $1,000 on the grainfather and a further god knows how much to setup a 4-5 keg keezer. Not to mention all of the small equipment purchases along the way, with plenty more still to come I'd say!


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## Shaz_au (1/11/16)

Wow, thanks for all the awesome replies!

Regarding temperature control guys, umm it's manual... I've tried several solutions. Unless it's the peak of summer the challenge in Mount Gambier is keeping the temperature high enough. In the past I tried an aquarium heater in the wort or putting the whole fermenter in a large storage crate filled with water to try and add more thermal mass to keep the temperature steady. I've had issues with the pitching temperature being on the warm side but after that I'm normally in the low end of the recommended range in the kit instructions. I can only remember one batch that was on the warm side but the result has always been the same.

I can rule out the carbonation sugar as the problem. With my one successful batch I tried several bottles each of brown sugar and white sugar along with the normal dextrose I use and my untrained palate couldn't tell the difference.

I guess the aim to start with was smaller BIAB batches with a final volume around 10L so I can brew often and gain some experience before I risk wasting too many ingredients and spend bigger money on burners, vessels, etc. The grainfather isn't an option unfortunately BKBrews!

OK so if I go no chill I'll still use my full size fermenter. Thanks!

No other glaring issues?


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## GibboQLD (1/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> I found my electric element stove can bring 17 litres of cold water to the boil (eventually) with the lid on but cannot maintain a rolling boil with the lid off. I also found that water expands when heated and my pot started to boil over! So the plan is to insulate some of the pot walls using a rubber mat similar to this: https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/14710/?page=1


Hey, I recognise that thread/insulated pot! 

One thing to keep in mind is that if you're using an insulated Big W pot on the electric stove, you'll probably need to leave an inch or two of insulation off the bottom of the pot. While the NBR foam can handle 120° C or so (theoretically), you really wouldn't want it too close to the stove element.



Shaz_au said:


> I guess the aim to start with was smaller BIAB batches with a final volume around 10L


That's about the batch size I typically make in the pot from the thread above -- I use the Coopers Craft fermenter and typically aim for around 11L into the fermenter.

Welcome to the forums!


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## damoninja (1/11/16)

1. Yeast health
2. Sanitation (yes I would put yeast health above sanitation)
3. Temperature control


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## mtb (1/11/16)

Million dollar question Shaz - what is your typical fermentation temp? What do you aim for vs what you achieve?


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## ScottyDoesntKnow (1/11/16)

I did one basic pale ale kit brew and ended up with a similar cidery taste. The final gravity was much higher than I anticipated even after being in a temp controlled fridge and staying in the fermenter for a month. It also never carbonated properly. I'm 99.9 % sure that this was due to the poor quality kit yeast and must have given up before the job was done and created that cidery flavour. Instead of trying again, I'm like you and researched the crap out of BIAB and then jumped straight in with a 19l pot. Just finished off the last bottle of my first all grain brew on the weekend and it was as good as anything I can buy from my local bottle shop. 2nd brew is fermenting away nicely. This forum is the holy grail, no doubt you will already know that from your research. Someone on here will have an answer for just about anything you could need to ask.
So my biggest tip is to use a good quality yeast like SafaleUS-05!


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## ScottyDoesntKnow (1/11/16)

And on temperature control, I bought an old fridge off a cousin years ago as a beer fridge for $50. Gave it a thorough clean out when I decided to start brewing and bought an stc-1000 temp controller off eBay for about $20 I think. Check out gumtree in your local area, I'm sure you will find a secondhand fridge for cheap, maybe even free!


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## LAGERFRENZY (1/11/16)

Rule 1 - Kit fermentation temp instructions are always way too high - you need to try and get the fermentation vessel to be around a constant 19 c or less. Lots of ways to do fermentation control without forking out for a fridge. Just do a search on Fermentation Chambers.


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## Shaz_au (1/11/16)

Typical brew temperatures (now looking like this is still too warm)

Pitch temperature was approx 26C (stick on thermometer)
Temperature dropped to around 23C by morning
Steadied around 20-22C for remainder

Gibbo, thanks for the pot mods! Yeah I'll give the insulation some space away from the element. I'd prefer not to have smoking rubber in the house. I've already measured out the pot for the etching trick. After testing out the pot last night I've been admiring the ball valve installation too and rethinking trying to put the pot in the oven for the mash instead of insulating the thing. Is yours the 3 piece valve that seems to be recommended?

I just checked out the available grain at the LHBS. I'll post a pic shortly.

Yup on the yeast comments. With the recipe above I was planning on US-05 yeast and possibly hydrating it first...

Thanks again!


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## Shaz_au (1/11/16)

Here is the selection from the LHBS


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## damoninja (1/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> Typical brew temperatures (now looking like this is still too warm)
> 
> Pitch temperature was approx 26C (stick on thermometer)
> Temperature dropped to around 23C by morning
> Steadied around 20-22C for remainder


Yeast can do some funny shit at 26C. 23C still well on the high end for me 97.51% of the time. 

And dunno exactly where you're from in SA but bloody hell $7 a kilo for any grain let along regular old munich is just offensive. Brewcraft is highway robbery.


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## Judanero (1/11/16)

Scottydoesknow. Hit up Gumtree and you'll likely get a fridge for free, grab the STC off eBay, if keeping it warm enough is generally the issue you can get a heat belt for ~$20 from eBay also.

Sanitation, temp control, yeast management, recipe design are the main ones to nail and you'll be laughing.

I'm all for supporting the LHBS where possible provided the prices are reasonably competitive, staff knowledgeable, and yeast and hops are refrigerated.. There are plenty of online retailers that can likely offer you a larger selection at better prices.

Brewman.com.au (no affiliation) is the best I've dealt with.

You sound on your way Shaz, enjoy the ride!


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## RdeVjun (2/11/16)

Welcome Shaz, glad you could join us at AHB! :beer:
Its pleasing to see that my elderly Mini-BIAB guide still gets let out for a run now and then even though it is in 'retirement'! B) There's been many an all- grain career launched with it, while the 19L big double ewe stockpot and a BIAB bag is a pretty low- cost and low- impact way to press the start button and it also has the potential to brew award- winning beer at the highest level (its no mean feat, but has indeed been done with 19L stockpot BIAB). FWIW, there's a few simple ways to scale up the batch size with the 19L pot too, but I would recommend a few Mini-BIAB batches first before ratcheting up production volume.
You should find much improved results with ferment temperature control (aim lower too, most ales <20C), with that licked, plus use of quality ingredients and taking sanitation seriously then you're just about guaranteed decent beer.
With getting a decent boil in the stockpot on your stove, as well as insulation that won't catch fire, we've found that floating a stainless bowl on the surface to reduce surface area and/or placing the lid on about halfway should also help, but never completely cover the lid during the boil as there's volatiles that do need to be vented throughout, only cover with the lid after the boil time is up (as per that excellent aforementioned guide).
When you talk about "spring" water, if it is going straight into the fermenter then it really should be sanitary to eliminate infection sources, best if the water is treated when the source is potentially compromised with microorganisms. For kits and extract dilution, boiling (and cooling of course) would do for plain water additions, however the Mini-BIAB and other all- grain methods usually boil all of the water at the culmination of the process and are undiluted anyway, no other biological treatment necessary in that case. No need to get too distracted with water treatment though as plenty of folks have reported use of untreated dilution water without harmful effects, it is more of a footnote now that you're graduating to all- grain.
WRT kit/ yeast instructions, internet and LHBS advice, always be prepared to challenge it, feel free to post questions here.
HTH, sing out if you get stuck and good luck!


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## good4whatAlesU (2/11/16)

19L stockpots from Big W rock. I'm using one as my fermenter.

Add a Styrofoam box and a icebrick - your good to go


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## Shaz_au (2/11/16)

Thanks guys, you rock! :super:

No milling service available at the LHBS so I think I'll order a carona style mill and some grain and have at it.
Anyone running one of these? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Premium-Quality-Hand-Grinding-Corn-Grain-Wheat-Or-Nuts-Flour-Mill-Home-AU-/252220596446?hash=item3ab984e0de:g:w9AAAOSwNyFWejt4
Seems to be lots of people using them for homebrew but there is a bit of a divide between roller mill guys and carona mill guys

Cheapest roller mill I've found is this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Malt-Muncher-Grain-Mill-With-Base-Plate-Home-Brew-RLRMWH/282114350483?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39923%26meid%3D696cebacf52d427bb35206da19aa471c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111950172898
If this is the way I should go please let me know.

Having the brew ready for christmas day is looking a bit iffy now


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## RdeVjun (2/11/16)

Oh, I think there's plenty of time before Christmas! One of the forum's well-known and infamous characters would knock out a Pommie Bitter in a week, used to say, 'grain to brain in under seven days', maybe less. That beer could be Dr Smurto's Landlord with Wyeast 1469, a ferocious beast of a yeast. Plenty of time yet!


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## Shaz_au (2/11/16)

I was just thinking of ordering milled grain online this time around. Shipping is the killer!

Here is the recipe I'm planning on using


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## damoninja (2/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> I was just thinking of ordering milled grain online this time around. Shipping is the killer!


Where about are you mate? I'm in Adelaide but depending on how far out you are it might be worth while checking out some of the places here, some ship at reasonable prices relative to what Brewcraft charge.


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## Shaz_au (2/11/16)

I'm in Mount Gambier
Any suggestions on a SA supplier
I was having a look at hoppy days (weighed and milled) so I can get started.


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## damoninja (2/11/16)

Ouch  Mt Gambier is regional... Given the locale don't rule out Melbourne as a source to ship from. 

Someone local might be able to help, I'm imagining there's some alternative to brewcraft out there. 

Worst case find someone who can get you 25kg bags from beerbelly here or kegking in Melbourne. You can probably just about Uber it with someone who's already coming your way.


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## GibboQLD (2/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> Cheapest roller mill I've found is this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Malt-Muncher-Grain-Mill-With-Base-Plate-Home-Brew-RLRMWH/282114350483?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D39923%26meid%3D696cebacf52d427bb35206da19aa471c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D111950172898


I built this one for about $10 or so -- second-hand pasta maker from the local markets, and free knurling courtesy of the old boy:







Wouldn't be much good for large batches, but seems sturdy enough for my small-scale stuff.


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## Hpal (2/11/16)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Refrigerator-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller-for-Aquarium-Greenhouse-/251677683499?hash=item3a9928af2b:g:L-QAAOSwzaJX~e1D&autorefresh=true
I use one of these as a thermostat, they do not require wiring like an STC1000. I have used a big W pot for small batches as well, I have been able to fill a 15L cube by mashing in an esky then boiling in the 19l pot


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## damoninja (2/11/16)

Hpal said:


> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Refrigerator-Thermostat-Temperature-Controller-for-Aquarium-Greenhouse-/251677683499?hash=item3a9928af2b:g:L-QAAOSwzaJX~e1D&autorefresh=true
> I use one of these as a thermostat, they do not require wiring like an STC1000. I have used a big W pot for small batches as well, I have been able to fill a 15L cube by mashing in an esky then boiling in the 19l pot


I had one of those for a while, gave it away. No compressor timer, don't want your fridge coming on every 30 seconds or some nonsense. 

I have several STC builds but now if I were to do it I'd get these (sponsor plug) best temp controller I own. 
http://www.ink-bird.com/


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## BKBrews (2/11/16)

> I had one of those for a while, gave it away. No compressor timer, don't want your fridge coming on every 30 seconds or some nonsense.
> 
> I have several STC builds but now if I were to do it I'd get these (sponsor plug) best temp controller I own.
> http://www.ink-bird.com/


I can't comment on other temp controllers because I've never owned one, but +1 to the Inkbirds. I've got 2 ITC-308s (1 for the fermenting fridge and 1 for the keezer) and they have been flawless and so, so easy to use.


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## Shaz_au (2/11/16)

Temperature controller options noted! The ink-bird looks like the go for me.

Does the recipe and ingredients I've picked all look OK? I'm ready to click the check out button if this is looking OK.

Do I need to go back and work out my evaporation rate for my pot on my stove or can this be calculated somehow? 

Silly question, why a 90 minute boil? What difference would a shorter boil make? say 60 minutes? Obviously there would be less evaporation so more volume into the fermenter but at a lower starting gravity. What does the longer boil achieve?


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## mtb (2/11/16)

Recipe looks good - but Mash Temperature should probably be higher, 66 - 67 not 63.
90min boil is just a default possibly. 60min will do the job. You won't know your boiloff until you give it a go, but if you want my advice there, download Beersmith. Just get the free trial period if you don't want to buy it. In Beersmith you can load up a mini-BIAB equipment profile which will fairly accurately estimate boiloff rates, volumes etc


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## damoninja (2/11/16)

I'd throw more hops in at flameout (or in the cube) and dry   I'd drop the cara to 5%

Adjust your attenuation to 81% for US-05, especially when mashing at 63C (from memory this application doesn't take mash temps in to consideration for potential attenuation)

You also have the no chill check box selected, this program will try adjust IBUs accordingly... though personally I don't think that any adjustments need to be made for a no chill after doing it on and off. Others may disagree with varying results, DrSmurto's golden ale for example though he specifically says make no adjustments for no chill. 

Boiling longer will lose you more water also use more gas 

The 90 minute mash _probably_ isn't required but it sure won't hurt or cost anything other than your time to leave it.


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## altone (2/11/16)

Well you've got a lot of good answers so far, 
If you want very small brews 1x 19l pot is fine and don't forget you can always use your kitchen kettle to top it up.
I try to get around 19l finished product per brew.
If you only have a 19l pot - you can do this by using your pot and the biggest other pot in your kitchen to boost up the volume.

If you are going to nochill - definitely put the 0 hops in the cube - you'll get way more aroma in the finished product.
I normally do a 75 min boil because I add Pilsner malt to everything - 60 is enough for ale malts 
Malt mash at 66.6C for 75 then mashout around 75C

Regardless of which process you follow I think you'll get a better result than kits and bits.

And like mtb said - download beersmith - it makes life so much easier

Try it first and then you will buy it for sure - damned cheap tool.

Good luck mate

Cheers

Gerry C

ps. It took me about an hour to type this as I'm doing it in between biab temp checks


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## Shaz_au (2/11/16)

I'm glad I asked, thanks guys! I'll up the mash temperature to 66 (so I leave [email protected] 75%?) I'll have a look at beersmith too.

I still hadn't decided on the no chill vs whacking the pot in the sink of cold water. Brewmate definitely throws a wobbly with the IBUs if I click the No Chill box with the same hop schedule (jumps up over 50).

I'll stick with the 1 pot and small brews to start with until I get some experience!

Any recommendations on a good and cheap brew thermometer? I take it I shouldn't just be using a cheap laser or multimeter thermometer to measure my mash temperature. Do I need to spring for a weldless short stem thermometer and mount that halfway up the pot? I figure anything weldless I add to this pot can be moved to a bigger pot if I go that way in the future.


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## mtb (2/11/16)

If you're getting yourself an Inkbird / other temp controller, it's likely the probe will be safe at mashing temps. So you may not need to buy a separate thermometer


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## Shaz_au (2/11/16)

Well the ingredients are ordered, I ended up ordering enough for two batches. 

I like your thinking but I wasn't going to run out and buy the inkbird just yet... At this time of year I'm pretty confident of being able to maintain a steady temperature without it.


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## altone (2/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> Well the ingredients are ordered, I ended up ordering enough for two batches.
> 
> I like your thinking but I wasn't going to run out and buy the inkbird just yet... At this time of year I'm pretty confident of being able to maintain a steady temperature without it.


If you are chucking the lot into a fridge to ferment - dead or alive you'll probably be fine.
An STC1000 is dirt cheap and can keep the temp pretty stable in a working fridge - that's what I use.

As for thermometers I just use ebay digitals like these
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2X-New-Digital-COOKING-FOOD-MEAT-KITCHEN-THERMOMETER-MEAT-Stab-PROBE-TEMPERATURE-/310787515815?hash=item485c6125a7:g:Ic8AAOxyI91Tewsa

I've found this type to be pretty ok. The cylindrical ones are next to useless.
I'm lucky in the way I can check the temps against certified thermometers but these digital ones have come up within 1 degree most times so, near enough.

Just make sure everything is as clean as you can make it and you'll make a drinkable beer, from there you can start experimenting and improving your process.

edit: My Little Penguin APA is now in the cube and I'll be chucking it in the fermentor tomorrow. Mmmm Amarillo 

second edit: If you're going to buy a grain mill I'd suggest buying a proper one 2 or 3 roller. If you want to cheap out, look at the pasta roller - the others are just mincers and not very beer friendly imo.
Having said that, my first allgrain was made from barley bashed with a rolling pin and it still tasted good although the efficiency was through the floor.


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## BKBrews (2/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> Well the ingredients are ordered, I ended up ordering enough for two batches.
> 
> I like your thinking but I wasn't going to run out and buy the inkbird just yet... At this time of year I'm pretty confident of being able to maintain a steady temperature without it.


Just FYI, I got mine for $45 each, so pretty minimal outlay for peace of mind.


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## Tony121 (2/11/16)

Welcome aboard Shaz.

There's a nice kettle in the for sale section care of Damoninja.

I have been brewing about 19l at a time from the 19l big w pot, just brew over gravity and using a bucket to batch sparge of sorts. Quite versatile once you get the hang of things.


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## damoninja (2/11/16)

Appreciate the plug but shipping to Mt Gambier may not be worth it

Not in a hurry to sell it brewing stuff can take a while to move in Adelaide so if you happen to make it this way at any point holla


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## simmo1972 (2/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> Well the ingredients are ordered, I ended up ordering enough for two batches.
> 
> I like your thinking but I wasn't going to run out and buy the inkbird just yet... At this time of year I'm pretty confident of being able to maintain a steady temperature without it.


Welcome to the slippery slope. Did you get seperate bags for each grain? If mixed and 1 big bag your weight of grains will be all other the place if split into two brews.


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## simmo1972 (2/11/16)

I used a cheap candy thermometer on some string in my first couple of 19l biab.


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## Judanero (2/11/16)

If you're going to use a thermometer buy once, cry once (a decent lab one is ~$20) and calibrate it in boiling water and an ice slurry.

I would have one even if you plan on getting a weldless.


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## Shaz_au (3/11/16)

It's not a slippery slope its a freaking cliff! It's not the right time for the kettle damoninga but at least now I know the for sale section exists.

Simmo I got one recipe batch bagged together and the other batch of ingredients are all vacuum sealed separately to avoid this, thanks 

Judanero do you have a link to where I can buy such a device? If a good one is that little I think that is the way to go. Otherwise I'll probably just go with the cheap one Boddington Boss recommended (thanks), I didn't realise any cheap digital ones might actually be accurate! 

PS My evaporation rate is 2.2L/hr (with the lid hanging on the side of the pot) as per this photo from RedVjun's excellent mini BiAB guide!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (3/11/16)

If you would like quick, cheap expandability, you might like to hit the 2 pot stovetop method thread.

I can get 25L comfortably from it and have squeezed 38L from it. 

It's designed to be "what can I brew with the stuff already lying around home and a couple of astute purchases.


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## altone (3/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> It's not a slippery slope its a freaking cliff! It's not the right time for the kettle damoninga but at least now I know the for sale section exists.
> 
> Judanero do you have a link to where I can buy such a device? If a good one is that little I think that is the way to go. Otherwise I'll probably just go with the cheap one Boddington Boss recommended (thanks), I didn't realise any cheap digital ones might actually be accurate!


Hey I'm not recommending them or saying they're definitely accurate.
But they're cheap and will give you consistent results - even if they are 2-3 degrees up or down. 
Like I said I'm lucky as I can check them against a lab certified thermometer.

One downside to the digitals is they can be slow to give a reading - keep checking until the temp remains the same for a while.

I use a Mashmaster dial thermometer and one of the digitals as well.

And yes it is a cliff  but so long as you don't hit the ground you'll be fine - every purchase increases your altitude 

If Judanero shares where to get a certified lab thermometer for $20 that covers 20-80C we can both buy one. 
Mine was certified 25-60 and cost A LOT more.

I only use it for checking other thermometers as it's extremely difficult to read.


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## Shaz_au (3/11/16)

Disclaimer noted


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## Shaz_au (4/11/16)

Is something like this good for holding the hops (the larger 7cm version)?

https://www.spotlightstores.com/kitchen-dining/food-preparation/utensils-gadgets/metaltex-mesh-tea-ball-45-cm/p/80299274

Though I guess adding hops to it throughout the boil would be hard work...


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## mtb (4/11/16)

Only if you plan to do a single hop addition, and that hop addition is fairly small.
Hops will swell, if there isn't room for them to swell in this ball you won't get all your hoppy goodness. Buy a hop spider or chuck 'em in loose.

If you do chuck them in loose, you'd get hop matter in your fermenter since you'd be pouring from your pot. You could get yourself a siphon and use it instead of pouring from your pot, this will let you draw wort off the top of settled crud and leave it out of your fermenter.


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## damoninja (4/11/16)

mtb said:


> Only if you plan to do a single hop addition, and that hop addition is fairly small.
> Hops will swell, if there isn't room for them to swell in this ball you won't get all your hoppy goodness. Buy a hop spider or chuck 'em in loose.
> 
> If you do chuck them in loose, you'd get hop matter in your fermenter since you'd be pouring from your pot. You could get yourself a siphon and use it instead of pouring from your pot, this will let you draw wort off the top of settled crud and leave it out of your fermenter.


I'd say being a small batch in a 30L fermenter he won't even know they were there come bottling time. 

Often dry hop in the 100s of grams rarely with any issues.


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## mtb (4/11/16)

Yeah agreed, at that volume I doubt it'll be a problem


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## altone (4/11/16)

Shaz_au said:


> Is something like this good for holding the hops (the larger 7cm version)?
> 
> https://www.spotlightstores.com/kitchen-dining/food-preparation/utensils-gadgets/metaltex-mesh-tea-ball-45-cm/p/80299274
> 
> Though I guess adding hops to it throughout the boil would be hard work...


If that's like the stainless bouqet garni balls, and it looks like it is - it'll do the job ok.
for a 1 shot hop addition.

I use a hopsock bought from Craftbrewer - cheap and you can easily do multiple hop additions.
Your LHBS would probably have something similar.

If you are thinking of forking out for a hop spider [I'll probably get flamed for this] I'd suggest not buying the 300micron ones.
I bought one to "upgrade" from the hopsock and found it restricted flow through the hops. I then sold it and went back to the hopsock.

The Mangrove Jack [and probably others] one has a coarser mesh and imho is a better product if you want to get
that hop utilisation and don't care about a bit of fine gunk in your boil.


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## ScottyDoesntKnow (4/11/16)

I found a 500 micron hop spider on eBay for under $20 delivered. Ordered it a few weeks ago from China so should be here any day now. To be honest though, for the brew I did last week I just chucked everything in loose in the kettle and then strained through some Swiss voile sitting in a pasta strainer into the fermenter. Would have caught just about everything I reckon.


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## altone (4/11/16)

ScottyDoesntKnow said:


> I found a 500 micron hop spider on eBay for under $20 delivered. Ordered it a few weeks ago from China so should be here any day now. To be honest though, for the brew I did last week I just chucked everything in loose in the kettle and then strained through some Swiss voile sitting in a pasta strainer into the fermenter. Would have caught just about everything I reckon.


Thanks for that, hadn't noticed the 500 micron ones before on ebay - just ordered one too.


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## Judanero (8/11/16)

boddingtons best said:


> Hey I'm not recommending them or saying they're definitely accurate.
> But they're cheap and will give you consistent results - even if they are 2-3 degrees up or down.
> Like I said I'm lucky as I can check them against a lab certified thermometer.
> 
> ...


I've got one of these:

http://www.anpros.com.au/laboratory-glassware-plasticware/thermometers/

I used the calibrated option, NOT certified but I checked it against a thermapen and a thermometer at the university and it was the same as both.

Temps tested were 50c, 66c, and 72c (I figured these were the thereabouts temps I would use it for) in a water bath, which I admit may not have been completely precise (water bath temp) but the important thing was the agreement with the other two thermometers.
It also agreed with the boiling water/ ice slurry test at home.

YMMV but I can only recommend what I've got and how I've found it, I wouldn't be ok with a 2-3c temp drift unless you knew which way it went and allowed for it.


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## ScottyDoesntKnow (12/11/16)

boddingtons best said:


> Thanks for that, hadn't noticed the 500 micron ones before on ebay - just ordered one too.


Arrived in the post the other day, packed very badly in a bag with some thin foam sheets rolled up inside the basket. The whole thing is bent out of shape, will still do the job but probably won't last too long as a result. Emailed Mr. Chinese eBay seller and he has refunded me the cost.


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