# Should i Cold crash a hefe?



## philistine (20/11/14)

Ive got an all grain hefeweizen due for bottling this weekend. Its been in the fermenter for 2weeks, no secondary.
Im sure its been discussed already, but curious to hear both sides of the story (and i dont have much time to sit at the computer and trawl)

Cheers!


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## 4KingAle (20/11/14)

No! The goal is to keep yeast in suspension so no......


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## Droopy Brew (20/11/14)

I think there is only one side to the story- as above.
I cant think of a single advantage of ccing unless you wanted a bright beer- which a Hefe is not supposed to be.


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## Black Devil Dog (20/11/14)

Of course you can. It just won't be a Hefeweizen though, it'll be a Kristallweizen.


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## Blind Dog (20/11/14)

Never had a clear Hefeweizen yet and I cold crash them all

You won't get a Kristallweizen unless you filter or have a weirdly flocculant yeast that also manages to make all the wheat protein drop out of suspension. Or you've used gelatine or other finings

Hefeweizen now refers to 2 very different beers, American or German. They're both cloudy, but the latter is full of yeast derived phenolics whilst the former is cleaner and often hopper with any phenolic character (IMO) reduced to cheap Haribo lolly flavours, and preferably restrained or non existent. Widmer brew about a billion litres of their Hefeweizen every year and although I can't say Ive drunk even a tiny fraction of their production, it's always been cloudy every time I've tried it and they (per the brewery tour guide at least) cold crash.


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## supertonio (21/11/14)

I agree with blind dog as I have cold crashed my last two hefes. 

Before doing this I seemed to get too much yeast after bottle carbonation. 

I always find that if bottling them to get the high carbonation required all the sugar creates enough yeast/trub after secondary fermentation even after cold crashing. 

Suppose it depends if you keg though. I can only speak as a bottler. For some reason I feel a hefe should be bottled but that's just a personal preference.


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## Mr. No-Tip (21/11/14)

Droopy Brew said:


> I think there is only one side to the story- as above.
> I cant think of a single advantage of ccing unless you wanted a bright beer- which a Hefe is not supposed to be.


Oxidation minimisation. As far as I understand, beer is much less likely to pick up oxygen during transfer at lower temperatures.

That said, I've done both. Generally I don't crash.


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## Weizguy (21/11/14)

Blind Dog said:


> Never had a clear Hefeweizen yet and I cold crash them all
> 
> You won't get a Kristallweizen unless you filter or have a weirdly flocculant yeast that also manages to make all the wheat protein drop out of suspension. Or you've used gelatine or other finings
> 
> Hefeweizen now refers to 2 very different beers, American or German. They're both cloudy, but the latter is full of yeast derived phenolics whilst the former is cleaner and often hopper with any phenolic character (IMO) reduced to cheap Haribo lolly flavours, and preferably restrained or non existent. Widmer brew about a billion litres of their Hefeweizen every year and although I can't say Ive drunk even a tiny fraction of their production, it's always been cloudy every time I've tried it and they (per the brewery tour guide at least) cold crash.


German breweries cold- condition their Weissbier, and usually add a krausening charge of fresh fermenting beer to carbonate..

I have previously done this, and feel the beer was better.

As for American Hefeweizen, I'd like to try to make one soon, with the Wyeast W1010 (presumed Widmer) yeast.


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## verysupple (21/11/14)

As mentioned above, you can have too much yeast in the final product. Everyone's system/practices will differ, but I find a few days to a week at 10 C is good. It drops out the more flocculent cells and the ones that are left tend to stay in suspension better and you don't get a thick cake on the bottom of the bottles. I tried CCing at 0 C as I would for other beers and I found that there was only a tiny amount of yeast left - the same amount as I would find in a crystal clear ale (counted with a microscope) - and the haze was from other things. I prefer some yeast to be there as it changes both the flavour and the texture.


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## Black n Tan (21/11/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Oxidation minimisation. As far as I understand, beer is much less likely to pick up oxygen during transfer at lower temperatures.
> 
> That said, I've done both. Generally I don't crash.


Oxygen is more soluble in cold beer than warm, so this seems counterintuitive.


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## Dan Pratt (21/11/14)

I thought co2 was more soluble at lower temps?


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## verysupple (21/11/14)

Pratty1 said:


> I thought co2 was more soluble at lower temps?


I was never that great at statistical mechanics, but I thought it was pretty much all gases.


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## Black n Tan (21/11/14)

verysupple said:


> I was never that great at statistical mechanics, but I thought it was pretty much all gases.


Yes my thoughts too.


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## Dan Pratt (21/11/14)

well for the purpose of the thread, I cold crash 24hrs before packaging to a keg. I sometimes bottle a few aswell and found that the yeast kept in suspension was always present throught the keg. I cold crash so that I can force carbonate as soon as packinging is completed.


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## Mr. No-Tip (21/11/14)

Black n Tan said:


> Oxygen is more soluble in cold beer than warm, so this seems counterintuitive.


My thinking is based on something I think I picked up from a pro brewer, but it's less solid in my mind than I'd like to get into an argument over...so, to the Internet...

If this article is to believed, we are both right....oxygen is more suoluble at low, got oxidation is more of an issue higher... Apparently... 

Http://www.love2brew.com/Articles.asp?ID=391


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## Black n Tan (21/11/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> My thinking is based on something I think I picked up from a pro brewer, but it's less solid in my mind than I'd like to get into an argument over...so, to the Internet...
> 
> If this article is to believed, we are both right....oxygen is more suoluble at low, got oxidation is more of an issue higher... Apparently...
> 
> Http://www.love2brew.com/Articles.asp?ID=391


I am happy for us to be both right, but would love to hear the thoughts of the pro-brewer. Oxidation is indeed increased at elevated temps and is the reason that storing your beer at cooler temps improves shelf-life. However if you reduce oxygen uptake in the first place you can reduce oxidation and staling down the track. There are many reason for racking cold, but I am not convinced reducing oxidation is a valid one. That said I do tend to rack cold because it suits me and oxidation and staling have not been an issue to date (that I am aware of anyway). I suspect that with the beers you presented at the AABC it is not an issue for you either. In the end processes that minimise oxygen uptake are probably more important, such as purging kegs with CO2 and avoiding splashing when racking.


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## Mr. No-Tip (21/11/14)

Black n Tan said:


> I am happy for us to be both right, but would love to hear the thoughts of the pro-brewer. Oxidation is indeed increased at elevated temps and is the reason that storing your beer at cooler temps improves shelf-life. However if you reduce oxygen uptake in the first place you can reduce oxidation and staling down the track. There are many reason for racking cold, but I am not convinced reducing oxidation is a valid one. That said I do tend to rack cold because it suits me and oxidation and staling have not been an issue to date (that I am aware of anyway). I suspect that with the beers you presented at the AABC it is not an issue for you either. In the end processes that minimise oxygen uptake are probably more important, such as purging kegs with CO2 and avoiding splashing when racking.


It was Richard Watkins at a Wig an Pen brew day for Canberra brewers. I feel like he suggested racking warm was inviting oxidative spoilage but it was a few years ago and I could be totally muddled.


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## Black n Tan (21/11/14)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> It was Richard Watkins at a Wig an Pen brew day for Canberra brewers. I feel like he suggested racking warm was inviting oxidative spoilage but it was a few years ago and I could be totally muddled.


Well if you get a chance may be you could ask him again because I would love to hear what he has to say. Cheers.


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## donmateo (21/11/14)

I generally don't cold crash, mainly because I find that as long as I give the beer a few days to settle after fermentation is done, then enough of the yeast will settle out naturally by bottling time - and then it's already at a temperature good for bottle conditioning to begin. I've made the mistake a few times of bottling too early which can leave you with an excessive amount of yeast sediment in the bottle, and not desirable. Perhaps cold crashing would decrease settling time, but also it seems like taking the yeast on a temperature roller coaster may not be so great either....up for ferment, down for crash, up for bottle-condition....RE oxygen....perhaps these concerns are a driven by commercial considerations like shelf life etc, for me If your leaving your hefe much more than a few months then your likely missing the best of it.


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## Moad (22/11/14)

I assumed no one crashed them, will have to try a side by side next hefe batch.


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## Dunkelbrau (22/11/14)

Pro breweries transfer with purged lines (good ones) and flush the beer through with De-aerated water (again.. Good ones). 

They transfer cold, because it keeps co2 in sokution and reduces foaming and because they drive co2 in during transfer to reach the co2 spec.

Risk of oxygen pickup in a well purged line is negligible, but all the way from mashing in you have a risk, so good processes from start to finish (packing) reduce aeration, (hot side or cold) which in turn reduces oxidation. 

There are a lot of things we can't do at home that the (good) commercials do. But that's the beauty of home brewing!


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## jyo (22/11/14)

I always cold crash everything I'm going to keg. I like the results. I also don't want temps to fluctuate too much by putting a warm keg into my keg fridge where I store my yeasts.

Have CC'd hefe's for well over a week, and they only really drop clear towards the very bottom of the keg.


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## mckenry (22/11/14)

Yes, you should cold crash a hefe. If you use a proper yeast there will still be the RIGHT amount of yeast in suspension. Do it. It's the best way.


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