# A quick survery for those who have never entered a homebrew comp



## GalBrew (2/6/17)

Hi All,
The recent Beer Cartel homebrew survey revealed that 72% of respondents had never entered a comp before which when combined with some of the discussion around why that might be, got some of us in the Vicbrew committee at the latest meeting to wonder why this is the case and to how we can increase these numbers moving forward. I have included a brief survey for anyone who has never entered a comp to answer in an attempt to get some feedback around this issue. The survey is rather limited (due to the fact I could only have 3 questions) but if anyone wants to elaborate with any further details on why the might not have entered comps in the past, please feel free to post your thoughts. This is probably a good opportunity to open a bit of a dialogue between at least one group of comp organisers and the homebrewing public.

I appreciate any feedback at all.

Cheers

Adam.
(and the Vicbrew committee).


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## Airgead (2/6/17)

One note... 

Putting this in under competitions and results pretty much guarantees that people who don't care about such things will never see it... (after it drops off the recent posts box anyway)


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## mr_wibble (2/6/17)

The logistics of getting my beer there is always the biggest issue.
For the NSW state comp' I could take my beer to the LHBS who sent a bunch of them. If it wasn't for this I would not have entered at all.


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## GalBrew (2/6/17)

Airgead said:


> One note...
> 
> Putting this in under competitions and results pretty much guarantees that people who don't care about such things will never see it... (after it drops off the recent posts box anyway)


Yes, I am aware of this. None of the other sub forums seemed an appropriate place to start this thread though.

Do any mods have any suggestions to give this thread a little more exposure to the non comp people?


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## GrumpyPaul (2/6/17)

You could try "first entry free"


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## malt junkie (2/6/17)

1.AFAIK there are no HB clubs out my way.
2. I usually find out about comps here, and mostly with barely enough time to brew let alone plan or order specific ingredients.
3 I get paid fortnightly so from the time I find out a bout a comp it maybe 3 weeks till I have ingredients to brew.
4. I really don't like sending beer in the post... to anyone, let alone when I want it to be at it's best.


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## Fraser's BRB (2/6/17)

malt junkie said:


> 1.AFAIK there are no HB clubs out my way.
> 2. I usually find out about comps here, and mostly with barely enough time to brew let alone plan or order specific ingredients.
> 3 I get paid fortnightly so from the time I find out a bout a comp it maybe 3 weeks till I have ingredients to brew.
> 4. I really don't like sending beer in the post... to anyone, let alone when I want it to be at it's best.


Whilst I've been in one comp, points 2 and 4 ring true for me. 

Many comps have limited notice periods (at least to those not with their finger on the pulse) which makes brewing schedules difficult. Drop off points make life simpler and allow a little extra time that postage doesn't.


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## labels (2/6/17)

The questions are very resaonable and should give you the data you need. I'm running a comp too so this interests me. Ask admin to make this posty sticky


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## wereprawn (2/6/17)

I've entered one HB comp, basically just for shits 'n' giggles , but also for the feedback on a style I'd never attempted before. Generally I'll ask for feedback from other brewers locally though, if the beer is slightly obscure ( a rauchbier I did recently for example ). And finally , I rarely brew to style. Just brew beer I think I'll enjoy for my own consumption, ( and I suspect many brewers fall into this category ) so I don't really care what others opinions are. 

Edit -spelling .


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## Mr B (2/6/17)

An option of "Im aware of competitions and wouldnt mind putting a few beers in, but have never really pulled my finger out and sent any in" would get at least one vote


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (2/6/17)

I had to put "none of the above" in the first section, you didn't touch on my reasons for not entering.

My major problem with the comps as currently constituted is that they are conducted under BJCP rules (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and IMO that makes them overly restrictive. I've judged a few comps now and find that I'm often forced to downpoint a perfectly good beer because it doesn't exactly fit the style description.

I don't know that there is a solution to this problem: there are inevitably more ways of making good beer than there are of describing what that beer should be.


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## Benn (2/6/17)

Some of the entry requirements seem a bit confusing and may intimidate or deter potential first time entrants. 
The Compmaster process as utilised by Merri Mashers (IPA Comp) is fairly straight forward but other comps I've looked at take a bit of re-reading to get my head around. To seasoned competitors this may not be apparent but it's easy to get lost in the details of how to actually present your bottle if you've never entered that particular comp before. 
Every comp seems to have a different set of requirements. Then there's how many bottles of a minimum to maximum volume that are required for each category with additional bottle(s) required if your beer should advance to the next round for further consideration. 

I understand that each competition is run differently within different clubs/associations with different constraints and available resources/volunteers etc, so of course one size may not fit all when it comes to entry process.

I have entered the Merri Mashers IPA comp twice and have enjoyed and been grateful for the feedback via the scoresheets. As a result I've gained an interest in actually "tasting" beer and also the variety of beer styles beyond the offerings at the local supermarket therefore I find myself spending more money at small independent bottle shops.
I believe there are several reasons one might enter a home brew competition other than the goal of taking first place and these people probably make up a sizeable chunk of the 72% of home brewers that are interested enough to complete a survey but reluctant to put a bottle of beer in the mail. If more involvement is the objective then perhaps tapping into the community outside of the home brew club scene may prove worthwhile. 
Cheers,


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## GalBrew (2/6/17)

labels said:


> The questions are very resaonable and should give you the data you need. I'm running a comp too so this interests me. Ask admin to make this posty sticky


Not a bad idea, I will do that.


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## GalBrew (2/6/17)

Mr B said:


> An option of "Im aware of competitions and wouldnt mind putting a few beers in, but have never really pulled my finger out and sent any in" would get at least one vote


I wanted to have something like that as an option, but I could only put 10 options in. I think that is definitely a valid option (and I suffered from that myself).


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## GalBrew (2/6/17)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> I had to put "none of the above" in the first section, you didn't touch on my reasons for not entering.
> 
> My major problem with the comps as currently constituted is that they are conducted under BJCP rules (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) and IMO that makes them overly restrictive. I've judged a few comps now and find that I'm often forced to downpoint a perfectly good beer because it doesn't exactly fit the style description.
> 
> I don't know that there is a solution to this problem: there are inevitably more ways of making good beer than there are of describing what that beer should be.


I think you have a point here, and I tried to touch on that with one of the options (perhaps if we get good numbers participating here we can out together a larger more comprehensive survey). I also agree though that I'm not sure how you have a comp without some sort of style guidelines. Food for thought though.


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## Mr B (2/6/17)

You could do a Surveymonkey survey to do something more comprehensive.

That way you can start out with "Whats your favorite colour" and go from there.



Forgive my levity, I think competitions are potentially fertile ground for a lot of good stuff. Serious suggestion indeed.


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## labels (2/6/17)

GalBrew said:


> I think you have a point here, and I tried to touch on that with one of the options (perhaps if we get good numbers participating here we can out together a larger more comprehensive survey). I also agree though that I'm not sure how you have a comp without some sort of style guidelines. Food for thought though.


The newer 2015 guidelines overcomes most of these restrictions with much broader categories and interpretation. These days I don't see that as problem.


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## GalBrew (2/6/17)

Benn said:


> Some of the entry requirements seem a bit confusing and may intimidate or deter potential first time entrants.
> The Compmaster process as utilised by Merri Mashers (IPA Comp) is fairly straight forward but other comps I've looked at take a bit of re-reading to get my head around. To seasoned competitors this may not be apparent but it's easy to get lost in the details of how to actually present your bottle if you've never entered that particular comp before.
> Every comp seems to have a different set of requirements. Then there's how many bottles of a minimum to maximum volume that are required for each category with additional bottle(s) required if your beer should advance to the next round for further consideration.
> 
> ...


I agree with the lack of standardisation between comps, they are all their own entities run by different people with different requirements. I also agree with trying to get opinions outside of the club scene, there is a large somewhat untapped (pardon the pun) segment whose opinions on comps and home brewing in general would be invaluable.


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## capsicum (2/6/17)

I plan to enter a few competitions to get feedback on my brewing, but the feedback I would be most interested to hear is on my brewing techniques rather than how well I've managed to make a beer in a specific style. I think this is probably because I usually brew to taste (brew to drink might be more accurate...)

I'd be most interested hearing from experienced tasters and certified judges what off flavours they find, then I could try to better my brewing in general which could improve all my beers.

As I mentioned in the Beer Cartel survey discussion, I've been a bit put off by everyone sitting around scrutinising BCJP guidelines at club tastings. I could see very nice beers being rated poorly because they didn't fit the style, but I understand for large comps you need a framework. On idea could be to have a few less serious categories like "best quaffer", "beer you'd pay the most for" etc.


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## Benn (2/6/17)

Case swaps and the like may be a good platform for broad peer review outside of the competition environment for those that prefer to brew outside of the set style parameters but wish to be involved in something larger than their regular garage quorum.


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## bradsbrew (2/6/17)

Maybe a comp where the average punter enters a beer and they get told what style it suits and is judged accordingly. This would also help in the development of judges as well.

Brewers can be tight, the idea of paying to give away your brew might prevent some from entering. 
I done ok when entering beers into comps, my claim to fame is 2nd best stout at aabc 2009 and around that period i had plenty of different beers in bottles to send in to comps, since moving to kegs i no longer have a stock pile of readily available bottles and even with the best intensions i haven't entered a state comp since i have had kegs.


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## good4whatAlesU (3/6/17)

I just make small brews, 10L or so - not a lot of spares to send off to comps.

Besides which sensory stuff.. it's all a bit subjective... What one person likes another person doesn't, who can really tell which is 'the best'? it comes down to personal opinion, or as others have stated "strictly matching a style' which sort of goes against the ethos of home brewing anyway.


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## wereprawn (3/6/17)

^^ Absolutely . Subjectivity can make it difficult to take much away from certain aspects of the score sheets . The beer I entered into a comp was judged by one of 3 judges as highly carbonated , 2nd as moderately and 3rd as low carbed. One said quite fruity and another claimed no fruitiness . All poured from the same bottle . :blink:


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## GalBrew (3/6/17)

wereprawn said:


> ^^ Absolutely . Subjectivity can make it difficult to take much away from certain aspects of the score sheets . The beer I entered into a comp was judged by one of 3 judges as highly carbonated , 2nd as moderately and 3rd as low carbed. One said quite fruity and another claimed no fruitiness . All poured from the same bottle . :blink:


In my mind at least the Inherent subjectivity in judging anything, mixed with the differing levels of experience that judges possess makes the need for some sort of style guidelines all the more important. Could you imagine the quality of the feedback you would get without them?

I have personally found with a lot of my comp entries that on a panel of 3 judges, usually 2 of them are on the same page and one has a wildly differing opinion. It's an issue with comps that I'm not sure how to address at this stage, but if that's an issue for you then thanks for the feedback!


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## wereprawn (3/6/17)

GalBrew said:


> In my mind at least the Inherent subjectivity in judging anything, mixed with the differing levels of experience that judges possess makes the need for some sort of style guidelines all the more important. Could you imagine the quality of the feedback you would get without them?
> 
> I have personally found with a lot of my comp entries that on a panel of 3 judges, usually 2 of them are on the same page and one has a wildly differing opinion. It's an issue with comps that I'm not sure how to address at this stage, but if that's an issue for you then thanks for the feedback!


I agree mate, nor do have a solution, but simply being human can cause wildly varying perceptions thus, sometimes making score sheets near useless if one wanted to use them to improve their beer.


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## MartinOC (3/6/17)

You'll usually find that (at least in the bigger comps) at least one of the judging panel is experienced & the others are learning the ropes. Look for a BJCP judge number on your scoresheets (if provision is made for it). Those opinions are the ones you can give more credence-to when evaluating your feedback.

A good Judge is able to pick-up certain faults & actually NAME them, whereas newbies can often detect something, but not pin-point it & give feedback. That should give you a good starting-point to research the source of potential problems in your processes. Some judges will also offer suggestions for improvements.

Yeah, a lot is subjective & some people can't detect certain compounds, so defer to the ones that can (it's about understanding your own limitations). Good judges are made, not born....


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## good4whatAlesU (3/6/17)

Some of the Stouts I've tasted (commercial ones) claiming to have won "this prize and that" taste like crap to me .. Whereas others from relatively unknown breweries that haven't won anything taste very nice. 

Comes down to the individual and what they like to drink. Sure if you have an off taste and want to get it checked out, send it to someone who knows what their doing, but that doesn't have to be a competition.


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## wereprawn (3/6/17)

MartinOC said:


> You'll usually find that (at least in the bigger comps) at least one of the judging panel is experienced & the others are learning the ropes. Look for a BJCP judge number on your scoresheets (if provision is made for it). Those opinions are the ones you can give more credence-to when evaluating your feedback.
> 
> A good Judge is able to pick-up certain faults & actually NAME them, whereas newbies can often detect something, but not pin-point it & give feedback. That should give you a good starting-point to research the source of potential problems in your processes. Some judges will also offer suggestions for improvements.
> 
> Yeah, a lot is subjective & some people can't detect certain compounds, so defer to the ones that can (it's about understanding your own limitations). Good judges are made, not born....


Thanks Martin. Just had a look over the score sheets and you're spot on. One of the 3 judges was certified. That certainly changes my perspective.


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## Danscraftbeer (3/6/17)

I'd like it if there was more open style or free style beer judging.
Basically I'm more interested in what I can conjure up then to imitate a specific style.
My newest style interest is New World Ale because it makes sense to me to make beers out of world wide ingredient varieties. As far as I know New World Ale is not an official style. ? Or easy to go on from that: NW Lager, NW Stout etc.
Opens the ballpark to more variations etc.
Other reason is if I have to post beer then forget about it.
I've entered beers in the local-est comp being Dromana Oktoberfest at Hickenbotham vineyard but they are specific German styles which I cant even find commercial examples to compare with but it actually what got me into the liking of Germen styles after brewing them by the guideline descriptions.

I also found that thier judges do know their stuff. First beers I entered were just what I had in bottles at the time that didn't fit any style but I entered them to the closest category to test the judges haha. They know their stuff. Their descriptions had me checking my notes to find they were right in detecting the things that were out of style. Eg. they detected I used a bit of smoked malt being inappropriate that I totally forgot I used. Crystal malt that shouldn't have been used. Too many sweet specialty malts etc.


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## moonhead (5/6/17)

There are a couple of problems I keep hearing when soliciting this kind of feedback in our club, and amongst my friends.

First off is the logistics of it all. We (the clubs running these comps) need to make sure the entrants get plenty of notice so they actually have time to brew the beer. Then they need plenty of places and options where they can drop off their entry, or mail it in. Saying you need to get it to a couple of home brew shops 2 weeks before the comp is a real killer, most people work during the week, there needs to be places open on the weekends that the punters can drop stuff off at, and not in the ass end of town either.

Second issue I hear a lot of, is the styles. I asked a mate recently if he's putting in an entry into the Westgate Stout comp, he was really keen to enter his chocolate chili stout, until I told him he couldn't, there wasn't a category for that (well, I corrected myself and said he could, but he wouldn't score great as it would be out of style). I don't know what the best way to fix that is, so we run more specialty categories in comps? Seems like a logical solution to me, ensure each comp has a "Style Speciality" available. Alternatively, do we need to better communicate how these comps work? Perhaps it's not about you submitting a beer you have, but more about you brewing a beer to enter for the available styles? Dunno...


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## GalBrew (5/6/17)

moonhead said:


> There are a couple of problems I keep hearing when soliciting this kind of feedback in our club, and amongst my friends.
> 
> First off is the logistics of it all. We (the clubs running these comps) need to make sure the entrants get plenty of notice so they actually have time to brew the beer. Then they need plenty of places and options where they can drop off their entry, or mail it in. Saying you need to get it to a couple of home brew shops 2 weeks before the comp is a real killer, most people work during the week, there needs to be places open on the weekends that the punters can drop stuff off at, and not in the ass end of town either.
> 
> Second issue I hear a lot of, is the styles. I asked a mate recently if he's putting in an entry into the Westgate Stout comp, he was really keen to enter his chocolate chili stout, until I told him he couldn't, there wasn't a category for that (well, I corrected myself and said he could, but he wouldn't score great as it would be out of style). I don't know what the best way to fix that is, so we run more specialty categories in comps? Seems like a logical solution to me, ensure each comp has a "Style Speciality" available. Alternatively, do we need to better communicate how these comps work? Perhaps it's not about you submitting a beer you have, but more about you brewing a beer to enter for the available styles? Dunno...


The logistical issues should be easy to sort out in theory, it's the whole style thing that is much harder to change. At Vicbrew we run a specialty category, so really you can always enter whatever you like, but it's a hard category to judge and I would imagine the people running smaller comps wouldn't want most of their entires in specialty either. I sympathise though, I wanted to enter my bourbon oaked porter into the same comp, but what can you do? I certainly understand from a logistical point of view why there is no specialty category. 

My point of view with comps and style is I brew beers to style for comp entries as a test of my brewing ability against a prescribed set of criteria. Otherwise It's a bit like going to the Olympics and wanting to do the 30m dog paddle instead of the 50m freestyle. But that's just my personal opinion, people do things for different reasons for sure.


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## GrumpyPaul (5/6/17)

Maybe...

Keep specialty for brews that are a variant of a style and can therefore be judged accordingly.

Add a "Freestyle" category that is an open slather category and is only judged on the Overall Impression part of the BJCP scoring with a score out of 20. Run it as fun closing event/drinks session of the end of the comp for all the helpers Judges/Stewards alike. Pour a drink - give the drinkee a scorecard with the entry number and ask to score it out of 20 - let them write comments if they want. But it can be kept simple with just the score out of 20. Then average all scores for each entry - you would want a cumulative score because some brews may get tasted by more people.

It would essentially become a Peoples Choice type of award.

Logisitics of scoring and how to coordinate it all would need some thinking but its an idea.

Earlier I suggested first entry free - I think that cost may be a barrier to entry for some brewers.

Last years Vicbrew had approx 400 entries from 100 brewers. So on average 4 entries per brewer.

At $8 per entry (or thereabouts) if you went with first entry free - you lose about $800 in funds from the 100 existing participants. But if you attracted 25 new entrants who all averaged 4 entries also you would be getting close to break even.

Another way to look at it could be that the average is 4 entries each because after that it starts to get costly - I might be possible that brewers had more than 4 entries but draw a line at the cost. You could either have anything over 4 entries is free.

Anyways - just a few ideas to for yo to explore.

Good on you for reaching out to figure out how to increase comp participation - good work


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## MitchD (5/6/17)

In Canberra the brew club has 3 comps per year, all under bjcp/aabc styles. First 2 comps are split styles each comp with comp 3 being act champs. They are organised early in the year with the dates and styles set and advertised then. 

As for bottle drop off Canberra is small but we have a drop off south side (usually the lhbs) and North side (comp sec's house lately) I live north and when I drop off they go in the fridge until the day of comp.

Surly the larger states can find someone willing to lend some fridge space a couple of weeks before comp date. Throw the volunteers a few free entries.


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## moonhead (5/6/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Earlier I suggested first entry free - I think that cost may be a barrier to entry for some brewers.
> 
> Last years Vicbrew had approx 4 entries from 100 brewers. So on average 4 entries per brewer.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in seeing the results for entry fees being a barrier for entry. That is an area we have a fair amount of flexibility with, as suggested above, and other "creative" ways of dealing with it.

I would pose a follow up question to whoever finds the entry fees high, are they expensive as in a financial burden on you, or are they expensive because of the perceived value you're getting for your entry fee?

If they're expensive because people can't really afford to enter, then we look at reducing the costs.

If they're expensive because you're not getting anything out of that entry fee, then we look at returning better information/prizes/awards/recognition/etc.


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## homebrewnewb (9/6/17)

I had to mark none of the above.
I haven't submitted anything due to submission requirements.
Specifically around the entry needing to be certain volume and capped, usually from memory.

I have never bottled beer in my life, I tried once (x48 330ml) as a gift to my groomsmen, never again.
The answer might be a carb cap on a pet bottle, but with a 20$ piece of kit potentially lost, who'd be interested in that.

That and no real clubs around my area. 
I have in the past bottled some up in a pet and carb cap and popped in to local breweries for feedback. I can tell you when a pro is knocking the upturned empty bottle into the glass to get the last out. It's a great feelin'.


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## moonhead (9/6/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> I had to mark none of the above.
> I haven't submitted anything due to submission requirements.
> Specifically around the entry needing to be certain volume and capped, usually from memory.
> 
> ...



All the comps I've seen (in Melbourne) are fine with PET bottles and regular PET caps. No need for anything expensive or even mucking about with bottling glass bottles. Where abouts were the requirements in glass capped bottles?


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## GalBrew (10/6/17)

I wouldn't worry about the survey at the minute. Two of the questions are missing and all of the previous responses have been wiped since the forum software was updated. Hopefully it gets fixed.


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## malt junkie (10/6/17)

seems result have been lost with the site upgrade, I'll wait a week or 2 and repost I know there are a good few interested parties is the results from this.

cheers
Mike


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## GalBrew (11/6/17)

malt junkie said:


> seems result have been lost with the site upgrade, I'll wait a week or 2 and repost I know there are a good few interested parties is the results from this.
> 
> cheers
> Mike


I'll wait a bit too and see if it can be fixed. If not we will unfortunately have to start from scratch as two of the questions are missing and I can't add any additional ones into the existing poll. Hopefully the threads can be merged as it was getting some interesting responses. It's a bit of a shame really.


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## moonhead (5/7/17)

GalBrew said:


> I'll wait a bit too and see if it can be fixed. If not we will unfortunately have to start from scratch as two of the questions are missing and I can't add any additional ones into the existing poll. Hopefully the threads can be merged as it was getting some interesting responses. It's a bit of a shame really.



I take it this isn't getting fixed up then?


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## GalBrew (5/7/17)

moonhead said:


> I take it this isn't getting fixed up then?



I'm going to assume not. I've contacted admin about it but have not heard back. Polls were mentioned in the 'complain' thread and it looks like too much work to fix. Such a shame to lose all of the poll data. On the back of this I am going to put together a slightly more detailed survey which will make up for it. Hopefully people can go through it again, I'll try and make sure it's not too painful. I'll post again when it's ready. 

Cheers.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (19/10/17)

Benn said:


> Some of the entry requirements seem a bit confusing and may intimidate or deter potential first time entrants.
> and it's easy to get lost in the details of how to actually present your bottle if you've never entered that particular comp before.
> 
> I believe there are several reasons one might enter a home brew competition other than the goal of taking first place and these people probably make up a sizeable chunk of the 72% of home brewers that are interested enough to complete a survey but reluctant to put a bottle of beer in the mail. If more involvement is the objective then perhaps tapping into the community outside of the home brew club scene may prove worthwhile.
> Cheers,



The bits snipped out above and that I'm not sure my beers would be good enough are the reasons I have not entered a comp yet, I would like some proper feedback on my brews, the folk at work, friends and neighbors are all complimentary about my efforts but that doesn't help me improve. I have been thinking I should join a club, I live in Diamo (Diamond Creek) Vic, recommendations would be appreciated.


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## manticle (19/10/17)

Worthogs probably


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## Rocker1986 (19/10/17)

For me it's just because I simply haven't gotten around to doing it yet, but I would like to do it and get some feedback other than family and friends.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge (19/10/17)

manticle said:


> Worthogs probably


Thanks, I've emailed them


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## Brewnicorn (19/10/17)

My reasons were because that’s not why I started home brewing. Initially it was a hobby I wanted to try. As I’ve improved I’ve enjoyed the techniques I’ve learned and the equipment I can use to further advance my skills. The forum has added a lot and that community I guess will make me want to meet up with some other brewers and maybe to comps initially. But now as before it’s just not the reason I brew. I like it and my friends do then I’m stoked. I know there are some pretty talented brewers out there with brews spoken of I’d love to try/try to brew, still that’s not the reason to enter a comp. I’ll get the craft right then I’ll have a think. Respect to those who do enter of course.


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## JeremyFlathead (15/8/18)

This is an old thread with not many recent responses. I've been brewing for a long time generally I'll make a brew with "whatever is in the cupboard" plus ingredients to make up a brew (which inevitably leaves me with some ingredients left over for the next brew) so not only are they different, they don't always fit into a category for competition.

Recently I've wanted to be more consistent in both final product and style so competition (independent, experienced feedback) seems like a good way to validate this. I have enough mates who tell me the beers are good but I want to see where they are on the scale of "good".

As a new "entrant" into the world of competition I now recognise some of the criticism in earlier posts, not enough time from the time the comp is announced to submit entries, not knowing when the next competition is. I'm sure that once I look around more I will find comps that repeat and I'll get into a routine but as a noob it's a hard thing to get into. 

I'd expect to brew 3 months before the comp deadline to allow my brews to mature properly - is this unreasonable?

Also the calendar link is either broken or not maintained, this would be ideal to have all the comps/events listed.

Off to find a comp with a deadline about November...


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## bbqzookeeper (16/8/18)

I started brewing AG in December (coming from a distilling background) and again, many of my peers are complimentary when supplied with free beer. The biggest hurdle I find is brewing to a particular style.

One of the other hurdles is not being on FB, hence it's difficult to join in with clubs and get advice / feedback. This is my fault though, and if I was more proactive, I could travel to meet up with others. Despite my enthusiasm and semi-proficiency, none of my peers are thinking of getting into it and Bankstown (NSW) is a little bit of a black hole for brewers, I believe.


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## Rocker1986 (16/8/18)

JeremyFlathead said:


> I'd expect to brew 3 months before the comp deadline to allow my brews to mature properly - is this unreasonable?


 Depends on the style of beer. Pale ales for instance probably only need a month in the bottle to be at their best, so you'd brew them about a month and a half out from the deadline. On the other end of the spectrum, stouts can be aged for a year or more before they hit their best, so you could brew one whenever you wanted and tuck a few away for comps.


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## lost at sea (16/8/18)

im contemplating entering my first comp if the stars align (NSW brewing championship)

2 things that has me hesitant is:
i work away from home for long periods (months), so preparing a beer for a comp is slightly more logistically difficult with brew times lining up with comp entries ect. (currently have a coopers pale AG clone and my 1st ever oatmeal stout on tap not what id aim to comp enter but they will have to do lol)
not really knowing what style my beers come under. i assume my coopers pale would go under aussie sparkling ale?

but i am defiantly keen to give it a crack, i dont even care if i come dead last (someone has to) as long as my beers get some better feedback than my tightarse inlaws who drink it purely because its free and smile through every glass even though they drink aldi (storm) shite


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## Dick Dickinson (17/8/18)

There are enough “clipboard people” in my life asking for TPS forms. 

Even if comps are nothing like that, I just have a massive aversion to anything that may attract petty tyrants and lifelong bureaucrats.


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## jackgym (17/8/18)

I'm reluctant to enter my beer in any comp because it would show up how bad the other beers were.


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## JeremyFlathead (17/8/18)

lost at sea said:


> im contemplating entering my first comp if the stars align (NSW brewing championship)
> 
> 2 things that has me hesitant is:
> i work away from home for long periods (months), so preparing a beer for a comp is slightly more logistically difficult with brew times lining up with comp entries ect. (currently have a coopers pale AG clone and my 1st ever oatmeal stout on tap not what id aim to comp enter but they will have to do lol)
> ...




What is it with some palettes that "good" flavoursome well crafted beers are not appreciated, I haven't come across many but it surprises me when a good beer (not necessarily mine) is rejected in favour of the mainstream high volume beers? Each to their own it leaves more of the good stuff for me.


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## Rocker1986 (17/8/18)

JeremyFlathead said:


> What is it with some palettes that "good" flavoursome well crafted beers are not appreciated, I haven't come across many but it surprises me when a good beer (not necessarily mine) is rejected in favour of the mainstream high volume beers? Each to their own it leaves more of the good stuff for me.


They're just not used to it I suppose, years of drinking the same thing, brand loyalty etc. Going from drinking those lagers to something full of flavor is probably a bit of a jump straight up. I used to think all those megaswill beers were alright too, one night I tried a JS Amber Ale because I liked the color and that was the moment I began exploring more styles and completely went off megaswill altogether. To us it's boring swill but to them it tastes great because they've never tried anything else or they think that's how beer should be or they just can't bring themselves to go away from the brand they've drunk for decades. I used to have a mate who thought Millers was the best beer on earth and fruity pale ales were rubbish. He at least enjoyed a good porter though.


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## Quokka42 (17/8/18)

It wasn't my original reply, but now I feel more than ever the beers I prefer to brew don't match any of the BCJP (or whatever it is) guidelines.
I tried to emulate commercial beers for many years, with varying degrees of success - in recent times I actually find I often prefer my own versions to the original over the long term. I still think the commercial brewers are very good at what they do - I just have gotten used to better than what my palate these days consider rather 1-dimensional lagers.
Despite some comments in the past, I have actually tried a few hop-forward beers recently that I really enjoyed - even though they were produced by one of the big players. So, my brewing direction is changing again... I'll still brew for myself, if my friends and family don't like it (doesn't seem to happen much any more,) I get to drink it myself!


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