# Canadian Hop Varieties And Canadian Beer Styles



## trevc (31/7/08)

I've seen several Canadian breweries mention using "Pacific Northwest hops" in their beers, or other similar descriptions. Does anyone have ideas as to what strains they're using?

There's a mass-produced beer I liked in Canada called Kokanee Gold. It's fairly bland compared to "real" beers. However, It's the best tasting Canadian swill you can buy everywhere on tap, mostly because it's slightly more malty/toasty and higher ABV. 

About 4-5 years ago they changed the recipe to make it more bland, and the bottle no longer says "no preservatives....". The bottle states that it's an "amber Lager", the hops are there, but only just enough to detect some slight bitterness. 

Basically, this Kokanee Gold (the old recipe) would be in a similar class to James Squire Golden Ale in that it appeals to a wide range of people, but still keeps the beer-people just interested enough to still enjoy a couple.

If anyone has any insights in to Canadian beers of any variety, I'd be interested in hearing anything you know about attempting to mimic them.
They almost always use Canadian grown malts and hops, so it may be tough to duplicate some of the characteristics. 

I've been consulting Mr Google, and have yet to uncover very much useful info. It seems some Canadian brews use Mt Hood hops, or Chinook... lots of different answers. I suppose I'm after the styles with more mass appeal, blonde ales, etc.


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## trevc (31/7/08)

I have a feeling some of these Canadian brews could be almost classed under the California Common style, but with hops on the lower-end, and more in a mass-produced style (corn added?). The grain bills sound about right, and so do the descriptions of Northern Brewer hops.


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## Stuster (31/7/08)

According to ratebeer  Kokanee Gold is an American Dark Lager (though it doesn't really look like one in the picture and the company seem to call it an Amber Lager. 

I've no idea about Canadian beers, but the Pacific Northwest Hops they talk about could be pretty much any variety. That area of the world is pretty much perfect for growing hops with a lot of it grown over the border in the Yakima Valley in Washington and they grow all sorts of hops there.


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## trevc (31/7/08)

That sounds about right, before they added all the corn or whatever in recent years. "Full bodied lager" is a fairly accurate way to describe it... slightly toasty/biscuity perhaps? but, nothing enough to scare away casual drinkers. More research shows Canadian Northern Brewer hops could be used... not the same as the german variety, I'm assuming?


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## newguy (31/7/08)

There are no Canadian hops to speak of. There *might* be one or two areas in BC that grow hops, but I've never happened across any and I used to live in the Okanagan valley of BC where the majority of BC's fruit and grapes (wine) are grown. Just across the border from Washington's hop producing region. Pacific Northwest hops basically means the American C varieties (cascade, centennial, chinook, etc).

As for distinctly Canadian styles, there aren't really any unless you consider our mass produced stuff like Labatt's & Molson's. Our megaswill is a just hair stronger than the American stuff. That's the only difference. Still the same bland brew. Our megaswill is typically produced with ~40% corn and I doubt the Kokanee Gold you mention is any different. They very, very likely get the darker colour by adding brewer's caramel or some other darkening syrup to their ordinary Kokanee wort. Kokanee's principle difference when compared to the other mass produced beers is its sweetness, and Kokanee Gold is similarly sweet.

I'd agree with Stuster that its a dark American lager. A California common it sure isn't.

If you want to replicate Kokanee Gold, this recipe would be a good first attempt:

OG 1.050
Wyeast 2112 California Lager

Grist:
75% pilsner malt
20% flaked corn
5% caramel 60

Mash @ 145F (63C) for 60 minutes, then ramp temperature to 167F (75C) for mashout.

Boil 90 minutes.
Hops: single addition for ~9 or 10 IBU.

Ferment @ ~12-14C for 2 weeks, then slowly drop to ~2C & hold for 4 weeks.


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## trevc (31/7/08)

newguy said:


> There are no Canadian hops to speak of. There *might* be one or two areas in BC that grow hops, but I've never happened across any and I used to live in the Okanagan valley of BC where the majority of BC's fruit and grapes (wine) are grown. Just across the border from Washington's hop producing region. Pacific Northwest hops basically means the American C varieties (cascade, centennial, chinook, etc).
> 
> As for distinctly Canadian styles, there aren't really any unless you consider our mass produced stuff like Labatt's & Molson's. Our megaswill is a just hair stronger than the American stuff. That's the only difference. Still the same bland brew. Our megaswill is typically produced with ~40% corn and I doubt the Kokanee Gold you mention is any different. They very, very likely get the darker colour by adding brewer's caramel or some other darkening syrup to their ordinary Kokanee wort. Kokanee's principle difference when compared to the other mass produced beers is its sweetness, and Kokanee Gold is similarly sweet.
> 
> ...



Great info. Thanks Newguy. What would be a suitable neutral bittering hop?

I've lived on the Gold Coast about 4.5 years, originally from Winterpeg Manisnowba. 

Thinking back again, I think it was maybe more like 6-7 years ago it tasted different(maybe more? I can't recall), I distinctly remember Kokanee Gold tasting like less of a weak megacorp lager. It was more malty. Perhaps my perception of beer has evolved, but I'm quite certain they've been changing things around a bit to give it more mainstream appeal. Did you ever drink the stuff back then?

I like the sound of the Steam beers too... might need to brew one some day


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## T.D. (31/7/08)

I'm sure I've seen references to "BC Goldings" before. Perhaps they aren't produced anymore...

Of the Canadian beers out there I have only really given the ones in Alberta a good going over. Big Rock and Sleemans are the main ones. Both have some great beers. Big Rock Trad Ale is a cracker - nice malty dark ale, but still very drinkable. Sleemans Honey Brown Lager and Amber Ale are both nice too. Perfect for the colder weather. 

I recently used some Wyeast British Ale II in a round of ales from bitter through to pale and amber ales. Its meant to be a Canadian strain. Great yeast. High attenuation but you wouldn't know it so much drinking the beer. But it has that classic Canadian clean profile - perfect for amber ales etc. Will be using it again for sure!


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## newguy (31/7/08)

trevc said:


> Great info. Thanks Newguy. What would be a suitable neutral bittering hop?



At 10-11 IBUs, it really doesn't matter. Avoid the really high alpha varieties (10%+) as they can be harsh, but other than that you can use anything really.



> I've lived on the Gold Coast about 4.5 years, originally from Winterpeg Manisnowba.



Cool. I'm originally from the Saskatoon area myself.



> Thinking back again, I think it was maybe more like 6-7 years ago it tasted different(maybe more? I can't recall), I distinctly remember Kokanee Gold tasting like less of a weak megacorp lager. It was more malty. Perhaps my perception of beer has evolved, but I'm quite certain they've been changing things around a bit to give it more mainstream appeal. Did you ever drink the stuff back then?



Yes, but that's also the last time I drank it. My wife & I would trek down to the local bar for WWF wrestling pay per view events (don't laugh) and the only beer I could stomach was Kokanee Gold. It's definitely sweet. I can't recall a toasted or malty aspect to it.

Regarding the WWF - I used to justify it by calling it a soap opera for men. I stopped watching wrestling when the Hitman quit.



> I like the sound of the Steam beers too... might need to brew one some day



Definitely try one first. Northern Brewer is a love it or hate it hop. If you ever come across Anchor Steam, pick it up.


Go Bombers!


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## trevc (31/7/08)

Been to Saskatoon, funny little place. Probably nicer than Winnipeg though.

We'll just pretend you didn't watch WWF, and I'm not brewing corn-beer...

Here's the first revision:

Size: 26.0 L
Efficiency: 70.0%
Attenuation: 76.0%
Calories: 183.49 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.055 (1.045 - 1.060)
Terminal Gravity: 1.013 (1.010 - 1.015)
Color: 10.8 (5.0 - 14.0)
Alcohol: 5.5% (4.5% - 6.0%)
Bitterness: 10.62 (30.0 - 45.0)

Ingredients:
5.32 kg Pilsner Malt
1.42 kg Corn Flaked (Maize)
0.35 kg American Caramel 60L
0.0 ea WYeast 2112 California Lager
13.0 g Pride of Ringwood (8.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min

Any suggestions as to brand of Pilsner malt and the caramel? I'm not sure if Aussie/british/german would be better.

My wife would be happy if I could produce a Kokanee Gold style brew. Big points 

Trev


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## newguy (31/7/08)

The malt's pedigree shouldn't matter that much. Use whatever is most easily available, which, I'm assuming, is probably Aussie.

The recipe looks good.


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## trevc (15/8/08)

I just tasted this one out of the fermenter... it has that cheap Canadian megaswill taste happening. The combination of low mash temps and corn definitely did it!
I can't believe I was drinking corn beer for all those years in Canada. This stuff has great sentimental value.

I used:

5.32 kg	Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC)
1.42 kg	Corn, Flaked (2.6 EBC)
0.35 kg	Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC)
Fermented it out with Safale us-05 at 15C for 7 days, transferred to secondary on day 4. This stuff sure makes a good pseudo-lager, with hardly any effort. The recipe probably needs more Caramunich, or touch more of anything with a toasty/roasted profile. Currently it's more like a stronger Molson Canadian.

I may skip cold conditioning this one, it's already good enough. I need the fermentation fridge for my double choc stout 

I'm saving my Wyeast 2112 pack for an Anchor clone. There's an American mate of mine that swears by the stuff, so I'd like to attempt something similar.


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## Maple (15/8/08)

Nice work Trevc, might give it a go around xmas time for a trip done memory lane. Let me know if you work out how to brew Sleeman honey brown. I loved that gear in high school/uni


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## trevc (15/8/08)

Maple: It's also bittered to 10 ish IBU.

I never really drank Sleeman's, and can't remember what it's like.


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## newguy (15/8/08)

Trev: Glad you're happy with it.

Maple: All of the commercial honey browns that I'm aware of are just an ordinary brown base ~1.048ish OG and 10-14 IBU from a single bittering addition. The honey is added and then the beer is either pasteurised and filtered or simply filtered, very tightly, to remove all yeast and bacteria. If you keg , just add honey to the keg to taste, force carbonate, and drink immediately. It will eventually ferment out, even at low temperature, so drain the keg quickly. Don't try this with bottles.


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## geoffi (15/8/08)

I'd have thought that quite a wide swathe of southern Canada lies in the hop-friendly latitudes. Maybe prairie winters are a bit ferocious for hops, but southern Ontario, for example, seems to me like it might be a goer for hop growing.


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## Maple (15/8/08)

Not had too much issue in depleting a kegs contents in a short timeframe yet...Thanks for the tips, I'll stick one on before my lil bro visits again...


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## newguy (15/8/08)

Geoffi said:


> I'd have thought that quite a wide swathe of southern Canada lies in the hop-friendly latitudes. Maybe prairie winters are a bit ferocious for hops, but southern Ontario, for example, seems to me like it might be a goer for hop growing.



The climate is right, but there are many crops with a higher rate of return. It could also have something to do with the summer heat, as I know for a fact that the summers in BC's interior are much, much hotter than in the rest of Canada. Since that area of the country is just north of the prime hop growing regions in the states, they definitely have hot summers too. Perhaps the intense heat boosts yield in hops? Dunno.

All I know is that hops grow well if you plant one in the backyard, despite our harsh winters.


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## trevc (15/8/08)

Manitoba is also similar, the hot dry summer would surely not be good for hops. -43 in winter, +32 in summer with low humidity.... then the mozzies come too. Winnipeg is cursed!

The corn is definitely what gives Molson, Labatt, Kokanee their taste.(I'm sure they're all made by the same people). It's the lingering beery, mildy bitter corn flavour that hangs around in your mouth afterwards. Normal AG beers don't have it. There's not even any mass produced Aussie beers I know of that have it. I guess they don't use corn (sugar instead?).


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## trevc (15/8/08)

Thanks for the tips newguy. This stuff reminds me of summers at the lake, getting really beered up on kokanee and driving the boat around. So simple, so fun.


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## newguy (15/8/08)

trevc said:


> Manitoba is also similar, the hot dry summer would surely not be good for hops. -43 in winter, +32 in summer with low humidity.... then the mozzies come too. Winnipeg is cursed!



The coldest I remember is -58C. That was about 6am at the beginning of February, 1989. A blizzard rolled through the day before. I had to drive in to Saskatoon (~ 70km away) to school and I remember looking out the kitchen window at the thermometer and thinking that it was broken. A trip that normally took about 40 minutes took about 90 that morning. Snow drifts across the road, some over the hood of the car, and black ice on the highway. The drive home the night before took 2 hours. There were times I actually couldn't see the nose of the car. The morning of the day before, it was actually above freezing and we had rain. Then the blizzard hit.

And the best part - I drove 40 miles in to university - and most of the pussies who actually lived in the city didn't bother coming to school that day.  

The hottest I remember is +42C. That was at the beginning of June, 1988. A swing of 100C in less than a year. I'm often amazed by that. Good times. 

And the people where I now live (Edmonton) piss and moan about the weather - which rarely gets above 30C or below -30C. Mild in my experience.



> The corn is definitely what gives Molson, Labatt, Kokanee their taste.(I'm sure they're all made by the same people). It's the lingering beery, mildy bitter corn flavour that hangs around in your mouth afterwards. Normal AG beers don't have it. There's not even any mass produced Aussie beers I know of that have it. I guess they don't use corn (sugar instead?).



Corn is plentiful and cheap here, so that's why it is used. For megaswill, it typically makes up 40% of the grist. I've only ever had one Aussie beer - XXXX - and it definitely is brewed with sugar. A lot of sugar.


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## trevc (15/8/08)

In my opinion, XXXX Bitter is the best of the megaswills. It tastes less "funny" than VB, Carlton Draught, etc. Canadian megaswill is definitely (slightly) better than the Aussie equivalent, regardless of the f'ing corn. I still can't believe I was drinking corn beer for so long, and had no idea what that flavour was!

Currently busy feeding guests the "Lucky 13 (abv)" Belgian Golden strong... they're already getting noisy, and I'm on the computer... Cheers


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## jonocarroll (8/1/09)

Who likes a challenge?

I've discovered that I could score major brownie points from a higher power at work if I can make them something resembling their favourite beer from back home. Downside is, from what I can discern, that it seems to be a Canadian MegaSwill... "Molsons Export Ale." I've never tried it, but if it's along the lines of an APA, I am willing to give it a go.

I'm looking for an all-grain recipe that will get as close as possible. Can't seem to find one online, but I'll keep searching.

Anyone (in particular, those who have tried said beer) got a suggestion/recipe? It would be much appreciated.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## T.D. (8/1/09)

Hmm, I doubt anything Molsons do is like an APA.

Its a shame that Canada is best known for their fairly crap megaswill (going by this thread anyway). They do some great microbrews. Even the ones you don't every hear about, the brew pubs etc, they are churning out some great beers. Its the same in America I guess.

I saw Maple's reference to Sleemans Honey Brown earlier in the thread. Awesome beer, pretty much what I live on when over there, along with Big Rock Trad Ale and the countless other fantastic microbrews that are out there.


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## jonocarroll (8/1/09)

T.D. said:


> Hmm, I doubt anything Molsons do is like an APA.


That's probably true from what I've read.  When the idea was first raised I looked around for the 'Canadian Ale' style and found nothing. No mention of it in BJCP AFAIK. I was told that it wasn't worthy of it's own style since it's pretty much an APA. That said, Molsons may not be going by the particular style anyway.

Any recipe suggestions welcome. Cheers!


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## T.D. (8/1/09)

I'll happily stand corrected but I think molsons is basically a mass produced American-style lager.

The recipe discussed above that trevc was brewing would probably be a good bet.


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## jonocarroll (8/1/09)

T.D. said:


> I'll happily stand corrected but I think molsons is basically a mass produced American-style lager.
> 
> The recipe discussed above that trevc was brewing would probably be a good bet.


Molsons seem to make several beers, the 'Molsons Canadian' being the lager, the 'Molsons Export Ale' being the ale. I'm looking to do the latter - too warm for brewing lagers just now. Cheers though.


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## newguy (9/1/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> Who likes a challenge?
> 
> I've discovered that I could score major brownie points from a higher power at work if I can make them something resembling their favourite beer from back home. Downside is, from what I can discern, that it seems to be a Canadian MegaSwill... "Molsons Export Ale." I've never tried it, but if it's along the lines of an APA, I am willing to give it a go.
> 
> ...



From memory, Molson Export is kind of a cross between a cream ale and a Kolsch.......but worse than that. "Mega'd", if you will (read: lots o' corn).  If you want to impress him, brew a good Kolsch: 95% pale 2 row, 5% wheat malt, aim for 1.050, mash at ~65-66C, aim for ~18-20 IBU from a single bittering addition - any hop variety. Use either wyeast 2565 or 1007 (or the white lab equivalents). Go with 1007 if you're impatient as 2565 takes forever to drop out of the beer, even when kegged & refrigerated. Just make sure you keep the fermentation temperature relatively low - 16-18C or so.


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## jonocarroll (9/1/09)

newguy said:


> From memory, Molson Export is kind of a cross between a cream ale and a Kolsch.......but worse than that. "Mega'd", if you will (read: lots o' corn). If you want to impress him, brew a good Kolsch: 95% pale 2 row, 5% wheat malt, aim for 1.050, mash at ~65-66C, aim for ~18-20 IBU from a single bittering addition - any hop variety. Use either wyeast 2565 or 1007 (or the white lab equivalents). Go with 1007 if you're impatient as 2565 takes forever to drop out of the beer, even when kegged & refrigerated. Just make sure you keep the fermentation temperature relatively low - 16-18C or so.


Many thanks for that! I'm not expecting great things from a true recipe, so this may be the way to go instead. Cheers!


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## Maple (9/1/09)

I'd try closer to that of a Cream ale than a kolsh. if you have the time try using a fair portion of polenta in the grist. I made a Cream ale that turned out more like a Molson Ex than a Sleeman Cream ale (read: very average result to what I expected). here's what I used, it you want to give it a whirl:

2.2 Kg JWM Ale
2.2 Kg JWM Pils
.9 Kg Polenta * 
.2 Kg Carapils

Hops (feel free to sub this out) were Pacific Hallertau NZ @ 5.8 AA to ~17 IBU

*You'll need to cereal mash the polenta

Yeast WLP 080 Cream Ale (but for an Ex, just use US05, 1056 or whatever neutral american yeast you have)

Good luck with it.


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## jonocarroll (9/1/09)

Well that's certainly a different recipe to the above. Perhaps I'll have to do both... and the kolsch. I'll have to look up cereal mashing though - I've not done that before. My supervisor had better be thankful! Then again, when I told him some of the responses I've found on the web to requests for a recipe for Molsons, he admitted that it had been a while since he had drank any, and he may have been glorifying it a little. I believe the phrase 'the Tooheys of Canada' did not validate his feelings for this particular beer.

Thank you newguy and Maple for your advice. I'll let you know how they all turn out. May have to send you each a bottle of each for comments. Maple should be easy... not sure about postage to Alberta, or are you located down under, newguy?

Cheers! :icon_cheers:


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