# First Brew, Taste Test Tonight!



## Burky (7/3/09)

Hey there beer lovers, beer gods and anyone else reading!

This is my first post with my first brew, but i'm sure it wont be the last for either.

For my first attempt I mixed a morgans queenslander gold kit with 500g of corn syrup (very simple) on advice of the local brew shop to hopfully create somthing similar to xxxx gold. realised later i needed to add some dextrose to bring it to around 3.5%, but a lower percentage beer for a start will do fine as long as it tastes alright.

I have a couple of questions as i had no luck scouring the forum to find my answers.

First is another temp question! I went the queenslander kit as it has a higher fermentation temp then the other mids (i think), it states between 20-30C the best being 25, because i 'thought' it was still summer here. i pitched the yeast at 26C and managed to keep the temp at that give or take 2deg. since the second brew i did last weekend (with the added dex) the temp here has droped dramaticly and i was wondering some ways to bring the temp 'up' to keep it at around 25? it has sat between 22-25C for the week so i havent been worried about this one but if it gets colder for my next batch how do i keep the temp up slightly?

the other question was simply has anyone else brewed the same kit and how did it go? What did you use? Also when winter comes and the temps are low, hows the mid 3.5 (morgans)? if anyone have some knowlage to throw my way it would be great 

Cheers all, I look forward to the replies, and to tasting my first home brew stubbie a bit later :chug: !

Burky :icon_cheers: 

P.S. the morgans website dosent seem to work, when i click on the queenslander gold it does not show the recipe, it says on the bottom of the page 'error on page' does anyone else get this or is it just my com??


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## buttersd70 (7/3/09)

Burky
whoever advised you to brew at 25C is just plain wrong in the head.....
18-20C is what you want to brew at.


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## Cocko (7/3/09)

Damn that Paul Mercuiro!!  

Welcome to boards Burky!!


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## Burky (7/3/09)

I read that on the can, chose it beacuse it would suite the current temp here in Wagga. it's (morgan's queenslander gold) supposed to be better for warmer climates. i realise it's sounds alot higher then everything else i have read thats why i posted the question! i'll scan the instructions and add them if you would like, hope my beer later will taste o.k.
Cheers for the reply Butters

Burky


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## mwd (7/3/09)

+1 Buttersd70 has it. Aim for 18C 

Cannot see the Paul Mercurio connection must be missing something subtle here.


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## MarkBastard (7/3/09)

I think if you want to replicate the horrible taste of XXXX brewing at 25 degrees is acceptable. Don't brew at 18 degrees, it'll taste too much better than XXXX Gold probably haha.

If you do want to keep your fermenter warmer an easy way is a wooden box with a low watt light inside it. Gives off a bit of heat.


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## Pollux (7/3/09)

Merc is the "Star" of the coopers HB package DVD/VHS.....Which was full of what is known to those here as not such great advice.

I much preferred him in Strictly Ballroom personally.....


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## seemax (7/3/09)

The can says, as does coopers, that they yeast will work between 20-30C for the simple reason that it makes the brewing appear simple. If they said hold the temperature at precisely 18C using an electronically controlled fridge then many people would be turned off due to effort and expense.

It's been said the coopers yeast (mauri?) is more heat tolerable, but from my experience it produces unwanted flavours at all temperatures.

Decent dry yeast is cheap ($4-5) and really does make the difference, just as much as temp control. Plus you can easily harvest the yeast cake (slurry on the bottom after fermentation) and reuse it for the next brew using PET bottles and good sanitation.


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## razE (7/3/09)

Mate you want to keep your ales at 18 - 20. For your next brew try and set your fermenter up in an old fridge using a temp mate (controlls the tempreture on your fridge) or if you have an old fridge that doesn't work try some frozen water in coke bottles around the fermenter. Will improve your next brew and before you make your next brew post up your recipe and let us all have a look at it. Hope you enjoy your first one because it all gets better from here :icon_cheers:


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## hoppinmad (7/3/09)

what's the deal with those bloody kits anyway? #1 they give you shite yeast #2 they tell you to add cane sugar and #3 they tell you to ferment at 25-26 degrees! Coopers, Muntons, Brewcraft.... they're all giving dodgy instructions!

Regarding ferment temperature. Isn't XXXX a lager? i'm not from QLD... but yeah I thought it was your version of our VB. If that be so... you should get a lager yeast and ferment at 12c. And don't use that corn syrup shit either


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## Burky (7/3/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I think if you want to replicate the horrible taste of XXXX brewing at 25 degrees is acceptable. Don't brew at 18 degrees, it'll taste too much better than XXXX Gold probably haha.



you could be right there! some of my mates can't stand it and others love it, as they say though 'each to there own'.  

I'll try to add the scaned instructions lets see if it work.


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## MarkBastard (7/3/09)

HoppinMad said:


> what's the deal with those bloody kits anyway? #1 they give you shite yeast #2 they tell you to add cane sugar and #3 they tell you to ferment at 25-26 degrees! Coopers, Muntons, Brewcraft.... they're all giving dodgy instructions!
> 
> Regarding ferment temperature. Isn't XXXX a lager? i'm not from QLD... but yeah I thought it was your version of our VB. If that be so... you should get a lager yeast and ferment at 12c. And don't use that corn syrup shit either



Yeah but what kit is going to include a lager yeast in Australia?

XXXX Gold may be a lager but the supermarket kits are all about marketing. Chuck any old crap in a tin along with a bad ale yeast and call it a lager. Lagers are just lighter coloured beers anyway right? Haha.


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## Burky (7/3/09)

Bloody Kit instructions!!!

Cheers for all the info so far, all advice is welcome and recorded, having a blast so far (not the bottles fortunatly) and cant wait to make a worthy brew!!!

all the help needed from those who know!

Burky


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## Burky (7/3/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Yeah but what kit is going to include a lager yeast in Australia?
> 
> XXXX Gold may be a lager but the supermarket kits are all about marketing. Chuck any old crap in a tin along with a bad ale yeast and call it a lager. Lagers are just lighter coloured beers anyway right? Haha.



??? lager yeast in oz??? also i'm not sure it's a supermarket kit, it was from the local brew shop (lingo: lbh?) but that could be the same thing?

Burky :beer:


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## MarkBastard (7/3/09)

Burky said:


> ??? lager yeast in oz??? also i'm not sure it's a supermarket kit, it was from the local brew shop (lingo: lbh?) but that could be the same thing?
> 
> Burky :beer:



There's broadly two types of brewing yeasts, ale yeasts and lager yeasts. Lager yeasts typically need to be fermented at much lower temps than ales, e.g. 10 to 12 degrees.

Ales need to be 16 to 20 degrees usually depending on style.

Constant or controllable temperature is needed to make good beer.

So the beer kits you're buying are aimed at beginners / people that don't know better / people that just want to get drunk cheap. They use ale yeasts because at least ale yeasts have some chance of surviving Australian temperatures, even if they produce horrible flavours when too hot etc. So all the so called lagers are really ales.

But commercial beers often lie, ales are called lagers and lagers are called ales. So I guess it's all a bit of a moot point.


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## Burky (7/3/09)

So it seems pretty clear i need to change the yeast. any sugestions? trying to keep things simple, i do have a small bar fridge that i think will fit the fermenter so will a tempmate do the trick? i really don't know much about this so i need to keep all things simple! :huh:


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## Beerbuoy (7/3/09)

HoppinMad said:


> Isn't XXXX a lager? i'm not from QLD... but yeah I thought it was your version of our VB. If that be so...



HOPPIN!!!! Wash your mouth out son!!..........XXXX our version of VB(Very Bad)..............I'm lost for words  

Seriously tho, I just tried a partial version of that Morgans Qld Gold with Saflager S-23 yeast and fermented at 12 deg in a fridge as mentioned by others. Very impressed with the results and I'm a born and bred XXXX Gold drinker.

It may be a bit early for partials but if you get a fridge sorted out and get some better quality lager yeast you will find the difference is huge.

I prefer the fridgemate to the temp mate but I live in Central Qld (cyclone country) and don't need the heating function.

Ask lots of questions. People are happy to help you out on this site. Thats how I'm learning.

Hope you enjoy the first brew.

Cheers

Ian


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## Brewer_010 (7/3/09)

Try US-05 which is pretty neutral and clean with a dry finish. It will cope with more wonky tempertures too if you can't hold it at exactly 18. 
I use it often and it has a good track record with my brews. Either that or go Fermentis S-04, which is a fast and reasonably neutral ale yeast.
And steer clear of the corn syrup!


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## svyturys (7/3/09)

The SAF yeasts seem to be the most reliable and consistent. About $4.50 a pack. The trick is to match the yeast to the recipe.
For example, if you were to get a tin of coopers Australian lager, a pack of be2 (both available in supermarkets) and you wanted to make a lager out of them you would use Saflager S23 yeast and brew at about 12C. You could pitch the yeast at around 22C.
The same ingredients but with Safale US 05, would be brewed at about 18C to 20 C and you would get different tasting beers.
In a nutshell that is as simple as homebrewing is.
For your first projects I would keep it at that and concentrate on cleanliness/ sanitation and temperature control in your brewery. The beer will taste best a few weeks or more after bottling...12 weeks is often cited.
Once you've got the basics happening you could move on to adding hops etc. Then the sky's the limit.
Cheers


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## np1962 (7/3/09)

Welcome Burky,
If you look at the signature at the bottom of buttersd70's post you will find links to answer heaps of questions asked by new brewers.
It would be good for you to read those as it will give you a head start in your brewing.
Good luck with it all.  

Nige


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## mwd (7/3/09)

+1 on Us-05 yeast good all round general ale yeast fairly neutral for most style of brews.


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## MarkBastard (7/3/09)

Don't bother with a lager yeast, they take too long to make and you probably won't mind the same ingredients with an ale yeast anyway. Beerbuoy, arguing over what's better out of XXXX and VB is like arguing over what's better out of cat shit and dog shit.


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## Beerbuoy (7/3/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Don't bother with a lager yeast, they take too long to make and you probably won't mind the same ingredients with an ale yeast anyway. Beerbuoy, arguing over what's better out of XXXX and VB is like arguing over what's better out of cat shit and dog shit.



I agree US-05 is a good start for now, nice and simple. Down the track I would try the lager yeast when you have the temp control and pitching temps sorted. It depends on your personal preference but if you like lagers then it is worth the minimal extra time they take. It takes me 2 weeks to ferment an ale and 3 weeks for the lager, not much really. 

As for cat shit and dog shit, I haven't eaten either so I'll leave you to argue that one amongst yourself. Like I said personal preference I guess.


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## buttersd70 (8/3/09)

mark
there are Australian produced kits on the market that contain true lager yeast....Coopers Euro for one.

And a lager yeast _if used properly_ will make a massive difference to the final product. That being said, I wouldn't reccomend using lager yeasts as a new brewer. Get your method right with the more forgiving ale yeasts, like US05 (@16-18C for 'faux lager', 18-20 for ale kits) or Nottingham (at 14-16C for 'faux lager' or 18-20 for ale kits). After you have a few brews under your belt, and have the hang of temperature control (using whatever means you have), then you can look at brewing a true lager. 
2c


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## rclemmett (8/3/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Burky
> whoever advised you to brew at 25C is just plain wrong in the head.....
> 18-20C is what you want to brew at.



I was at my LHBS yesterday, buying us-05 as well as other things, and the young guy behind the counter asked me if I'd used the said yeast. I said yes, and then he said he had "heard" it could handle the higher temps......................... I replied "errrrr, I ferment in a temperature controlled fridge". If you want shit advice its easy to come by.


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## rclemmett (8/3/09)

seemax said:


> It's been said the coopers yeast (mauri?) is more heat tolerable, but from my experience it produces unwanted flavours at all temperatures.



AFAIK Coopers yeast is not 514. I have used both and am quite sure they are different. I don't know the dates but I think coopers homebrew predates mauri yeast.

From my experience both can make a good beer. However, if you use these yeasts and make a good beer, it would have been better with a better quality yeast.


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## razE (8/3/09)

Burky said:


> So it seems pretty clear i need to change the yeast. any sugestions? trying to keep things simple, i do have a small bar fridge that i think will fit the fermenter so will a tempmate do the trick? i really don't know much about this so i need to keep all things simple! :huh:




Yeah mate, i brought mine from ross at craft brewer and is easy enough to set up and very easy to use. It involves chopping up an extension lead and wiring it in but it comes with instructions and is quite easy to do. Fresh ingredients, good water and a good yeast will allow you to make great beer! Sanitisation goes without saying. Also if you want to make another easy improvement to your beer and you dont want to buy litres and litres of spring water then pick up a good water filter. Made a big difference to my beer. Heres a link to a fridgemate http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=718 .


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## Ade42 (8/3/09)

Yeah I went in to my LHBS today and was just about to buy one of the "queen slander" (i'm in Brissie) And Morgans sells two varietis of the SAME tin with difrant labels. One was in the "Aussie" range "bitter" and one was in the QLD Range "Bitter" both instructions were the same word for word, I took two other tins "draft" i think from the Aussie and the QLD range and again same notes about being 22-30c I think the QLD range has an extra Blurb at the top about it better for Hot climates! 

So there you go same product diffrant labels, 

I ended up getting "beermakers" (NZ company) bitter. as I'm now not sure about Morgans. (I was thinking they were the "shit" until today) 

The Guy asked me what type of beer i wanted to drink and loaded me up with all the "ingredients" and loads of helpful advice!


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## Burky (9/3/09)

Alrighty then i 'm back finally,
I have ordered a fridge mate so i'll keep the temps down i will look at a heat pad for winter as it gets pretty cold here.
for my next attempt heres what i am thinking,
1x queenslander gold 
1x no. 5 sugars (250g corn syrup + 250g dextrose)
US 05 Yeast (how much???)

does this sound a bit more like it? 

I'm heading away this weekend for 2 weeks if i put the brew on and leave it that long it wont hurt will it?

Thanx heaps for all the help so far everyone :icon_cheers: 

Burky


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## svyturys (9/3/09)

Burky said:


> Alrighty then i 'm back finally,
> I have ordered a fridge mate so i'll keep the temps down i will look at a heat pad for winter as it gets pretty cold here.
> for my next attempt heres what i am thinking,
> 1x queenslander gold
> ...



The easiest thing to answer here is your question about the Us 05....put in the whole packet. (from memory it is about 12 grams)

The bit that worries me is that you are going away for two weeks and leaving a poor child alone to fend for itself...eeeek!
Perhaps I'm being a bit anal here but I like to look in on my fermenters every day....OK OK many times a day. Check the temperature, watch for krausen etc etc.
If you have the fridgemate by then it might be Ok. I'm pretty sure that fridgemate only looks after the cooling side of things. Tempmate controls both sides of the picture. Apparently it can kick your heat pad in if things are getting too cool.
If you are leaving the fermenter without a tempmate then I would reconsider and do the brew when you get back.
Cheers

PS. Just looked at your K&K recipe and saw that you only added 500 g of extras. A full kilo would be a lot better. The Coopers BE2 is great as it has, at least, some malt in it. 500 g of malt would be good to add to your recipe if you have already purchased the stuff...otherwise any of the two big supermarkets should stock BE2 or your LHBS will have an equivalent.


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## buttersd70 (9/3/09)

Anything with corn in its name - ditch it. seriously. Are we f*ckin mexicans? No. Malt + hops +water = beer. Do you see any corn in there?...No.


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## manticle (9/3/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Anything with corn in its name - ditch it. seriously. Are we f*ckin mexicans? No. Malt + hops +water = beer. Do you see any corn in there?...No.



Do you feel that way about rice too? I'm looking at doing a Tsing Tao style for my next one as my GF is not a fan of malty brews (last two were belgian strong dark and choc/coffee stout) but loves asian style rice based beers and I want her to share the joys of home brew on occasion.


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## The Big Burper (10/3/09)

svyturys said:


> ....................................If you have the fridgemate by then it might be Ok. I'm pretty sure that fridgemate only looks after the cooling side of things. Tempmate controls both sides of the picture. /
> 
> 
> > Latest versions of the Fridgemate now have a heating function as well.
> ...


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## buttersd70 (10/3/09)

manticle said:


> Do you feel that way about rice too? I'm looking at doing a Tsing Tao style for my next one as my GF is not a fan of malty brews (last two were belgian strong dark and choc/coffee stout) but loves asian style rice based beers and I want her to share the joys of home brew on occasion.



hmmm. Slightly more even-keeled, atm, then I was when I made that post....

Personally, I wouldn't use it. However, if thats what she likes, then go for it. I was referring to beer in _general _context (and rather impolitely, for which I apologise). I think a more accurate (and tolerant) way of looking at it is "Is this adjunct apropriate for the _type _of beer that I am brewing". The use of non-malt adjuncts has a limited place imo in brewing. There are _some _beer types where it is not only apropriate, but could be considered to be required. Different kettle of fish, that. Not my cup of tea (which is a personal thing), but I can see it has it's place. 

note...I can't for the life of me spell apropriate. :blink:


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## manticle (10/3/09)

buttersd70 said:


> hmmm. Slightly more even-keeled, atm, then I was when I made that post....
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't use it. However, if thats what she likes, then go for it. I was referring to beer in _general _context (and rather impolitely, for which I apologise). I think a more accurate (and tolerant) way of looking at it is "Is this adjunct apropriate for the _type _of beer that I am brewing". The use of non-malt adjuncts has a limited place imo in brewing. There are _some _beer types where it is not only apropriate, but could be considered to be required. Different kettle of fish, that. Not my cup of tea (which is a personal thing), but I can see it has it's place.
> 
> note...I can't for the life of me spell apropriate. :blink:



Appropriate.

And I agree - appropriate for the style.

Myself I usually like malty beers (the maltier the better) but there's somethng to be said for some of the drier, more refreshing asian beers with spicy food etc. I'd probably choose asian styles over most mexican beers I've tried as I find them a bit watery and tasteless. Mezcal with tacos, tsing tsao with duck.


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