# Yeast Starter



## wes1977 (22/12/15)

I normally leave my yeast started for 2 - 3 days before pitching. 

What's the longest you can leave it before pitching? Would it be ok if I left it for 5 days?

Trying to plan a brew day around this festive period isn't easy!


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## Screwtop (22/12/15)

If you made a beer, say 20 litres, fermented it for 5 days, then pitched this 20 litres to say 200 litres of wort. What would you be pitching, a yeast starter or some fermented out beer and yeast trub??????????????????

Screwy


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## Black n Tan (22/12/15)

It won't be in the best health if you leave it for 5 days. However if you let it ferment out for 2 days and then refrigerate until needed and pitch just the yeast, you will be fine.


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## mofox1 (22/12/15)

wes1977 said:


> I normally leave my yeast started for 2 - 3 days before pitching.
> 
> What's the longest you can leave it before pitching? Would it be ok if I left it for 5 days?
> 
> Trying to plan a brew day around this festive period isn't easy!


I recently had a starter left for about four days after it had fermented out (so about 6 or 7 days total)... it went nuts. The delay didn't affect it at all.

It *was* unplanned however - if I'd known in advance I'd get delayed by more than a couple of days then I'd normally chuck it in the fridge. Once there, I'd be happy leaving it for up to two weeks before I was worried about yeast health.

Make sure you give it plenty of time to warm back up though... I decant most of the spent wort and leave it on the bench for a few of hours, giving it the occasional swirl.


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## wes1977 (22/12/15)

So what do you guys think if I do the following:

1, Prepare starter on the 23rd.
2, Drain off wort and place in the fridge on the 26th.
3, Brew and Pitch on the 31st
?
Cheers


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## TimT (22/12/15)

Funny, with all these brewing techniques I always get caught up on the smallest things. So I do a yeast starter; then how to pitch the yeast from that? Chuck it all in? But the bigger I build up the starter, the more it will alter the consistency and taste of the brew. Besides, the best stuff is the active yeast on the top: it's the healthiest yeast that's able to change and adapt to different circumstances. So, I usually end up scooping the stuff from the top, dumping it in the fermenter. Then another situation arises: the yeast starter throws up more yeast to the top, it's the endlessly growing resource - so did I add the starter too early? No matter, I scoop that lot from the top too, chuck it in the fermenter - and possibly do it a third time - before I get sick of it and just let the starter krausen and ferment on its own, or just throw it out. Confusing! But it seems to work. This is why I continue to love AHB and threads like this, in the hope that little comments by brewers here or there really give you an idea of little things that you're doing right or wrong.


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## fletcher (22/12/15)

wes1977 said:
 

> So what do you guys think if I do the following:
> 
> 1, Prepare starter on the 23rd.
> 2, Drain off wort and place in the fridge on the 26th.
> ...


what you've written will be fine. even 5 days is fine so long as you refrigerate it, pour off the 'starter beer', and then pitch the yeast cake once warmed/at pitching temp. is it best practice? probably not. will it work and make good beer? yes. i'm in the same boat often and can't pitch as early as i'd like, and there have been no dramas with a few extra days.


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## Black n Tan (22/12/15)

1, Prepare starter on the 23rd.
2, Place in the fridge on the 26th.
3, Drain off spent wort and Pitch on the 31st


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## mofox1 (22/12/15)

wes1977 said:


> So what do you guys think if I do the following:
> 
> 1, Prepare starter on the 23rd.
> 2, Drain off wort and place in the fridge on the 26th.
> ...


If you know you won't pitch until at least the 31st just prep the starter on the 27th or 28th. If you don't end up brewing/pitching on the 31st just chuck it in the fridge.

Relax and homebrew something something.


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## wes1977 (23/12/15)

Another question then..... Should I be letting the yeast settle to the bottom and pouring away the spent wort?

I normally just pitch the whole thing?

Thanks for the feed back guys


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## SBOB (23/12/15)

wes1977 said:


> Another question then..... Should I be letting the yeast settle to the bottom and pouring away the spent wort?
> 
> I normally just pitch the whole thing?
> 
> Thanks for the feed back guys


Yep..and with your extra time, you have plenty of time to make starter, crash chill in fridge for a day or 2, pour off excess wort (leaving a small amount to help mix up yeast), swirl up yeast to make it pourable, dump into fermenter

I've made starters early which were left in the fridge for a few days without issue (the yeast sits in the smack pack for ages before hand)..if your sanitation is good there's no problem leaving the yeast in the fridge under wort for a 5 days


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## fletcher (23/12/15)

Black n Tan said:


> 1, Prepare starter on the 23rd.
> 2, Place in the fridge on the 26th.
> 3, Drain off spent wort and Pitch on the 31st


ah yes, keep that wort on top of the yeasties for those few days to keep them nice and safe


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## fletcher (23/12/15)

wes1977 said:


> Another question then..... Should I be letting the yeast settle to the bottom and pouring away the spent wort?
> 
> I normally just pitch the whole thing?
> 
> Thanks for the feed back guys


pitching the whole thing means that you'll have whatever "starter beer" you've made as part of your actual beer. if you've fermented this starter in ambient temps or higher than preferred temps, you're basically adding this potentially yucky tasting "starter beer" to the overall flavour of your eventual actual beer, so many don't add it. if you don't mind adding the extra fermented DME addition, then have at it, but i'd recommend against it so you're getting the flavour of your beer.

on the other hand, if you've used leftover beer for your starter (eg, if you brew 21L and then pour 20L into a cube and use the remaining 1L for your starter), then it'll be the same beer so many add this starter beer to their actual beer.

does that make sense? sometimes i use way too many words to explain something very simple haha


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## seamad (23/12/15)

You could always cube a no chill brew, time not a problem then, pitch at your leisure.
Treatment of starters is very yeast dependent, for eg, my 2 goto english yeasts are 1469 and 1968. You can tell when they're finished on the stirplate because they will floc out whilst spinning and look like "cornflakes " you get at the surf. I just tilt the flask over and use a magnet to keep the stirbar out of the yeast and leave on the kitchen bench for a couple of hours and decant the oxidised beer off ( you don't want this in your beer, taste it and you'll see why ). 1272 will floc out pretty OK too, but I'll normally stick that into the fermentation fridge with the cube for 1/2 a day at fermentation temp and then decant. With 3711 and 3068 I'll leave them @ 24 hours in the fermentation fridge before decanting as they take a while to floc out.


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## danestead (23/12/15)

If your starter size is less than 5% of the size of your beer batch, prepare the starter 12-18 hours prior and pitch it at high krausen. If its greater than 5% of your batch size, let it ferment out, chill, decant and pitch the yeast only.


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## Brewkid (6/1/16)

Possible silly question - I've just put together my first yeast starter from a Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey 11. How do you know when the yeast has replicated enough? In other words, what is the minimum amount of days before it would normally be good to pitch. Starter has been at 25 deg for 24 hours now. Thanks for any advice.


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## TheWiggman (6/1/16)

It's not the time that's important Brewkid, it's the yeast 'condition' for want of a better term. You can either make the starter with the intent to ferment it out or to pitch at high krausen. The speed at which this happens will depend on yeast health (mainly age), temp and wort conditions. 
If you have a stir plate and intend to ferment out the beer is being oxidised with the intent of increasing yeast count. This process typically takes 24-48h with fresh yeast at ~25°C. Once fermentation is finished, it should be allowed to settle as described above so you are not tipping out the babies with the bath water. 
If you pitch at high krausen, you are in effect getting the yeast up and running and presenting them to fresh wort before they have finished their growth cycle. It's important to consider what your starter is made from in this case as it will be in the final beer. Depending on who you speak to, there are benefits with both approaches. 
In your case I would give it 72h. Give it a shake, and if it bubbles and foams it's still finishing. Wait until finished, allow to settle in the fridge, decant and enjoy. 
PS: I use a small PVC hose to siphon the spent wort off rather than tip the flask. Sucks up almost every last drop and preserves almost the entire cake.


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## danestead (6/1/16)

Brewkid said:


> Possible silly question - I've just put together my first yeast starter from a Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey 11. How do you know when the yeast has replicated enough? In other words, what is the minimum amount of days before it would normally be good to pitch. Starter has been at 25 deg for 24 hours now. Thanks for any advice.


In addition the wiggman, if you shine a torch on your starter, you will see little co2 bubbles rising. When they have stopped, its finished fermenting. When you pitch at high krauesen it will still be bubbling though.


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## Beamer (7/1/16)

all very interesting I have been making yeast starters lately and been pitching at high krauesen with harvested yeast, but my latest (being saison also washed and harvested) I let go for about 36 hours then chilled and decantered then pitched. Its hasn't kicked in as quick but I also started the saison a lot lower in temp this time.

Cant wait to taste this baby!!!!!! :icon_drool2:


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## Brewkid (7/1/16)

danestead said:


> In addition the wiggman, if you shine a torch on your starter, you will see little co2 bubbles rising. When they have stopped, its finished fermenting. When you pitch at high krauesen it will still be bubbling though.


Thanks for the info Danestead. Should be good to go now it has stopped. Looking forward to my first Biere de Garde, in a few months!


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## Drewski (7/1/16)

After having the starter in the fridge do people warm it up first before pitching? If you let it warm up do you tip out the excess wert first or?? In the past i have just tipped the lot in due to using a demijohn that wont fit into fridge, just got a better vessel now i can get into the fridge so am curious.


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## Mardoo (7/1/16)

Yep, let rest at room temp until at pitching temp, then dump the excess wort. Keeping the wort in until just before pitching helps slow down the temp change so the yeast doesn't undergo temperature shock. That's how and why I do it, at least.


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## danestead (7/1/16)

Drewski said:


> After having the starter in the fridge do people warm it up first before pitching? If you let it warm up do you tip out the excess wert first or?? In the past i have just tipped the lot in due to using a demijohn that wont fit into fridge, just got a better vessel now i can get into the fridge so am curious.


I decant then let warm up. It keeps the yeast cake more solid. I leave just enough beer on top of it to help when swirling it when pitching.


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## Mardoo (7/1/16)

There 'ya go. Two different answers and I'm sure we both brew decent beer. Welcome to brewing!


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## danestead (7/1/16)

Mardoo said:


> There 'ya go. Two different answers and I'm sure we both brew decent beer. Welcome to brewing!


I hadn't actually thought of the temp change that much. You do have a point though. I've actually done it both ways but last time I let it warm up before decanting and the yeast cake seemed to stir up a bit more than usual. Who knows whether the yeast liked the temp change though. Only they will know haha


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## Mr B (7/1/16)

I warm then decant just before pitch to reduce the chance of infection issues. Probably neither here nor there in that regard though....

I have also started (!) putting it back on the stir plate after decanting for a couple of minutes to break up the cake and resuspend (as they are usually fermented out/chilled). A shake also works.


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## Brewkid (7/1/16)

TheWiggman said:


> It's not the time that's important Brewkid, it's the yeast 'condition' for want of a better term. You can either make the starter with the intent to ferment it out or to pitch at high krausen. The speed at which this happens will depend on yeast health (mainly age), temp and wort conditions.
> If you have a stir plate and intend to ferment out the beer is being oxidised with the intent of increasing yeast count. This process typically takes 24-48h with fresh yeast at ~25°C. Once fermentation is finished, it should be allowed to settle as described above so you are not tipping out the babies with the bath water.
> If you pitch at high krausen, you are in effect getting the yeast up and running and presenting them to fresh wort before they have finished their growth cycle. It's important to consider what your starter is made from in this case as it will be in the final beer. Depending on who you speak to, there are benefits with both approaches.
> In your case I would give it 72h. Give it a shake, and if it bubbles and foams it's still finishing. Wait until finished, allow to settle in the fridge, decant and enjoy.
> PS: I use a small PVC hose to siphon the spent wort off rather than tip the flask. Sucks up almost every last drop and preserves almost the entire cake.


Awesome info Wiggman, thanks for the detailed response.


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