# Is Obama's carpet big enough to sweep this under.



## wide eyed and legless (3/12/15)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/gunman-in-mass-shooting-in-california/story-e6frg6so-1227631887153

Last week he said,"Enough is enough" over the shootings at the clinic what will he do after this.


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## mwd (3/12/15)

Well the Good Ole US of A is the safest place in the world Ohh Yehh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead


Seems the end is quickly coming for the innocent folks of America.

http://www.refinery29.com/2015/12/98673/america-most-popular-black-friday-sale-item-guns

The FBI doing thousands of checks per minute.

Too little to late over there.


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## technobabble66 (3/12/15)

Yeah it's terrible how Obama blocked the gun reforms. I'm sure he's feeling really ashamed ...


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## Kumamoto_Ken (3/12/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/gunman-in-mass-shooting-in-california/story-e6frg6so-1227631887153
> 
> Last week he said,"Enough is enough" over the shootings at the clinic what will he do after this.


Not sure what he'll do, but here's what was reported in this article:

US President Barack Obama extended his condolences to the victims and their families and said it was clear there was a pattern of mass shootings in the United States that had no parallel anywhere else in the world. 
As he has done after other massacres in recent months, Mr Obama emphasised the need for tighter gun control and said bipartisan action was needed.
"We have a no-fly list where people can't get on planes, but those same people who we don't allow to fly could go into a store right now in the United States and buy a firearm and there's nothing we can do to stop them," he told CBS.
"That's a law that needs to be changed."
"We should never think this is just something that happens in the ordinary course of events, because it doesn't happen, with the same frequency, in other countries."
According to figures compiled by the Mass Shooting Tracker there have been at least 1042 mass shootings in the United States since 20 students and six staff were gunned down in Sandy Hook, Connecticut in December 2012.


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## brentice (3/12/15)

Whilst the N.R.A has so much political pull I think Obama is powerless to do anything really


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## wide eyed and legless (3/12/15)

The N. R. A. and any other firearms lobbyists have got to be taken on at some point, Obama will not do it, it's to close to the end of his term, he will leave it for someone else to attempt to make changes.


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## Droopy Brew (3/12/15)

Obama wants it, he just understands the reality of it. Not only the gun lobby but the gun mentality of the US is too strong. Why sweep under the carpet what the community is willing to accept in order to preserve their "rights to bear arms"?


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## Bribie G (3/12/15)

Being a lame duck president, doubt if Obama can do much. I expect Trump will now pipe up "serves the retards right".

With 373 police per 100,000 population compared to 217 in Australia and a quarter of the planet's entire prison population incarcerated in a nation with only 4.4% of the planet's population they still have massive crime problems and there's probably not a lot more that they can do. One would conjecture that something in the USA is fundamentally and probably terminally broken.

Now for a few comments such as "I love the USA and have a wonderful time whenever I go there". Of course you do, as you can do in South Africa or even the former Soviet Union as long as you pick your areas.

Bet you never went to places like these, which is where many millions of Americans are condemned to live, and have a nice stroll around checking your wallet and i-phone as you go.
Not having a shot at Americans as people, the ones I've met have been good solid human beings (apart from my mate Steve the ex SEAL who returned and smashed up the ATM in Redcliffe when it took his card) but what hope do many of them have in a fractured society, and why would we be surprised that gun crime is rife.


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## pcmfisher (3/12/15)

Ain't nothing gunna change............


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## Feldon (3/12/15)

Is restricting the sale of guns going to change anything, even in the long term?

Not saying it wouldn't be a step in the right direction, but there's already millions of guns available in US society. You could shut down every gun shop in the country and there's enough guns already in circulation for mass killers to use for centuries to come.

To my mind the bigger problem are the violent computer games which desensitize people from childhood and trains them in the mental skills needed to carry out mass killings.


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## Dave70 (3/12/15)

Why would Obama feel pressure do anything? Gun crime is on the decrease in the US and has been for the last decade. 

http://freebeacon.com/issues/fbi-gun-murders-continue-to-fall/


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## fraser_john (3/12/15)

Have to remember the configuration of the US political system is vastly different to ours. He is elected by the people and can only ask Congress and the Senate to enact laws for him, that is it, "ask". Sure, he signs them if they are enacted and then they are laws on the books, but he cannot force legal change on his own, unless he wants to instigate martial law and then, every US citizen has the right to grab a gun and say hang on, you cannot do that, though, these days, they'd be called terrorists and not patriots, their constitution gives them the right to overthrow a corrupt and illegitimate government, but, it did not work out so well for McVeigh.


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## TheWiggman (3/12/15)

Feldon said:


> To my mind the bigger problem are the violent computer games which desensitize people from childhood and trains them in the mental skills needed to carry out mass killings.


Really?


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## RobW (3/12/15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1qE8eDkzgE


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## superstock (3/12/15)

Feldon said:


> To my mind the bigger problem are the violent computer games which desensitize people from childhood and trains them in the mental skills needed to carry out mass killings.


These are the recruits the US military are using the fly their drones and other remote controlled devices.


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## booargy (3/12/15)

The US without guns would be like Netherlands with no windows or weed, Thailand with no ladyboys, let them kill each other so long as we can go there to visit ranges


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## Blind Dog (3/12/15)

As I understood it, the right to keep and bear arms is protected by a the 2nd amendment to the US constitution and therefore would need 2/3 support in both houses and would then need to be ratified by 75% of the States before any changes are made. Snowball and hell come to mind


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## whitegoose (3/12/15)

booargy said:


> The US without guns would be like Netherlands with no windows or weed, Thailand with no ladyboys, let them kill each other so long as we can go there to visit ranges


All round charming attitude to the world


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## klangers (3/12/15)

Feldon said:


> To my mind the bigger problem are the violent computer games which desensitize people from childhood and trains them in the mental skills needed to carry out mass killings.


Let's ban video games rather than guns? I'm not suggesting you said that, but if you were then that's putting the horse before the cart. People aren't killing people with video games.

It's been studied before and no link has been found. I am not familiar with the article(s) itself but google will find it pretty quickly.

Now for some anecdotal "evidence": I've grown up playing violent computer games. I started playing Wolfenstein when I was 5 or 6 (yeah I'm gen Y before the young'un comments appear), Duke Nukem a couple years later and so on and so forth as the realism increased to where we are today, with super-gore games like Left4Dead (which I do enjoy). I have no inclination to go on a "real" rampage. Nor do I feel mentally prepared for one. What it has done (I believe) is given me excellent spatial awareness and fine motor skills as well as fast reaction times.

I do not condone games like Carmageddon where the aim is to kill innocent people in the most gruesome way imaginable. But to say all violent video games are bad I believe is a very long bow to draw.

The USA is a perfect storm with a culture and history of violence and violent crime, a real gun "culture", huge levels of discontent and _easily available, *fully automatic, battlefield-grade assault rifles hanging on the bloody shelf at Walmart.*_ If your ex-boss really had a lend of you and you saw red, it's as easy as buying a bloody loaf of bread, go shoot him in the head.


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## Dave70 (3/12/15)

klangers said:


> The USA is a perfect storm with a culture and history of violence and violent crime, a real gun "culture", huge levels of discontent and _easily available, *fully automatic, battlefield-grade assault rifles hanging on the bloody shelf at Walmart.*_ If your ex-boss really had a lend of you and you saw red, it's as easy as buying a bloody loaf of bread, go shoot him in the head.


In all fairness, you aren't allowed to load the weapon, in this case a .45 auto S&W, until you _exit_ Walmart. At least thats how they roll in Pahrump Nevada.
True story.


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## Vini2ton (3/12/15)

I always had a keen interest in US history. It really is one long read of bang bang shoot em up lawlessness. I can sort of understand why the right to bear arms became law but as someone said when it was enacted they only had flint-locks. I think if I lived in the US I would own a gun. You never know when some methed-up ****-wits may ride into camp. Who knows what to think. Glad I live in Australia.


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## goomboogo (3/12/15)

It's Tony Abbott's fault.


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## Danscraftbeer (3/12/15)

brentice said:


> Whilst the N.R.A has so much political pull I think Obama is powerless to do anything really


Yep. The NRA and the imbedded cultural mentality of most of the population as well. Obama is right but that doesn't way up to shit on the overall.
Besides that I think if came even close to capable of enforcing gun reform there's a million armed nutjobs who would line him up in the crosshairs, literally!


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/12/15)

Blind Dog said:


> As I understood it, the right to keep and bear arms is protected by a the 2nd amendment to the US constitution and therefore would need 2/3 support in both houses and would then need to be ratified by 75% of the States before any changes are made. Snowball and hell come to mind


Bit like the Libs pushing to get a 15%.......I doub I will ever see it

The "Right to bear arms" had to do with the Governemnt not being able to afford arms for the Army so they told the people that if they joined up to the malitia and bring there own weapons then the Government will never take those weapons off them. The ammendment was supposed to be repealed, but never happened..

Stolen for Wikiepeadia.......

On May 8, 1792, Congress passed "[a]n act more effectually to provide for the National Defence, by establishing an Uniform Militia throughout the United States" requiring:

The act also gave specific instructions to domestic weapon manufacturers "that from and after five years from the passing of this act, muskets for arming the militia as herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound."[116] In practice, private acquisition and maintenance of rifles and muskets meeting specifications and readily available for militia duty proved problematic; estimates of compliance ranged from 10 to 65 per

[E]ach and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia...[and] every citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear, so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise, or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.[116]


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## wobbly (3/12/15)

Vini2ton said:


> You never know when some methed-up ****-wits may ride into camp. Who knows what to think.


And are you suggesting that we don't have those sorts now on the streets in Australia!!
Have a read of the papers most days where there is someone in the law courts that did something bloody awful to his fellow man and his deffence is that he/she was high on some sort of shit
There is a guy currently in the Perth law courts on charges of killing a bloke and it is claimed he had been on a cannabis bender for a few days as though that in some way explained why he did it.

I agree it will be very hard to introduce gun control/ownership laws in the USA 

Wobbly


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## DU99 (3/12/15)

Same thing was said about Gun Ownership in australia.It Happened..


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## tavas (3/12/15)

wobbly said:


> And are you suggesting that we don't have those sorts now on the streets in Australia!!
> Have a read of the papers most days where there is someone in the law courts that did something bloody awful to his fellow man and his deffence is that he/she was high on some sort of shit
> There is a guy currently in the Perth law courts on charges of killing a bloke and it is claimed he had been on a cannabis bender for a few days as though that in some way explained why he did it.
> 
> ...


Even cops are on the gear

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/perth-police-dog-shooter-stood-down-after-failing-drug-test-20151203-gle7yy.html


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## wide eyed and legless (3/12/15)

There is a part of that 2nd Amendment every man has a right to defend himself.
A bit different to running amok with an assault rifle.
It would be a tough job, and it would need a tough president to start the motions of bringing the guns under control, but not impossible.


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## jlm (3/12/15)

Quite the eye opener listening to the 'ol ABC this morning and hearing an interview from an AUS journo with some dude whose wife, maybe child was in the building (either way..........he was quite involved) and luckily his family escaped unharmed..........he suggested that the problem was "crazy assholes" and the journo then prompted him by saying that its too easy for the crazy assholes to get guns.........He responded with the thought that if their were more people with guns in there, shooting up the shooters, there would've been a better outcome. 

He then said something along the lines of "Lady, if you're looking for someone who supports gun control, you've got the wrong guy"

Member/s of his ******* family were in there.

I'm in no way anti gun........ I enjoy hunting, and I associate with a lot of other like minded people who have access to firearms, but I consider myself lucky I live in a country whereby associating with those folk, I rarely encounter people with the attitude that that dude displayed.

Shoot rabbits, not people. Rabbits make better pies.


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## madpierre06 (3/12/15)

My wife makes a better pie.


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## Danscraftbeer (3/12/15)

DU99 said:


> Same thing was said about Gun Ownership in australia.It Happened..


Yeah but I don't see that we were even a pimple on a pumpkin in comparison on gun culture. We may have gone more that way though. So it was far easier to fix the problem here before it really became a problem.
Tip my hat to Howard for doing that and soooo glad I was born to this country too. Our minds are wired differently to Americans on this subject.

Just to add a 2 cent observation in the flaw (my opinion) on American mentality to defend and protect themselves. May sound dumb but.
A gun is not a shield. It does not stop bullets from hitting you and can very much attract more bullets your way. It only adds to the amount of bullets flying around. May be better to evolve on easily wearable body armour. Hey there's a niche option.


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## jlm (3/12/15)

madpierre06 said:


> My wife makes a better pie.


Wife counts as people. Do not make into pie.


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## Danscraftbeer (3/12/15)

:lol: did this just go from shootings to butchery?


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## goomboogo (3/12/15)

Danscraftbeer said:


> :lol: did this just go from shootings to butchery?


I thought the discussion had turned to vagina pie. Just don't take too big a bite or it will taste like shit.


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## madpierre06 (3/12/15)

Sorry, should have clarified. Was a perfectly legitimate opst....my wife makes a better pie. As in, follows recipe, encases filling in pastry, places in over for about 40 mins at 180C, then serves with mash and veg.


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## yankinoz (3/12/15)

It has for some time been the aim of the NRA and the far-right blogosphere in the US to promote fear and sell guns. To a degree it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as more and more scared people are armed.

But here are some useful statistics:

1. Yes, there are more guns than people in the US,but
2. Only 32% of households own guns, therefore
3. Since the average household size is 1.8, the number of guns in the households that do own guns is almost six.

How many of those gun hoards are hobby collections and how many are nuts arming for a showdown with home invaders, blacks, Muslims, the government or whatever is anyone's guess. But a fair share of those gun owners are scared or angry.

The other 68% are getting worried, which is the idea. In all the many years I lived in the US I never owned a gun or heard one go off in the city, but maybe all my old neighbors are getting armed now. Would I want to be the last gun owner and have that known? That's how fear works.

As I have noted here before, US gun proponents keep recycling the story that Australian gun deaths soared after the buyback. They get that by cherrypicking years and ignoring population growth.


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/12/15)

Been a while since we had a mass shooting here


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## Danscraftbeer (3/12/15)

We are Australia. B)


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## Rocker1986 (4/12/15)

I thought Leahy summed it up pretty well...


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## TheWiggman (4/12/15)

I think the general public has got it all wrong due to the nuances of the English language. This is what originally intended by the second amendment:


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## Dave70 (4/12/15)

Bet you all thought when Donald Trump announced his candidacy it was just a cynical maneuver to pimp one of his hokey reality TV shows. Yeah, me to. 
Now I'm slightly more worried. 

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights

*NATIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY. The right of self-defense doesn’t stop at the end of your driveway. That’s why I have a concealed carry permit and why tens of millions of Americans do too. That permit should be valid in all 50 states. A driver’s license works in every state, so it’s common sense that a concealed carry permit should work in every state. If we can do that for driving – which is a privilege, not a right – then surely we can do that for concealed carry, which is a right, not a privileg*

Concealed weapons..Its just common sense people.


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## klangers (4/12/15)

Dave70 said:


> * If we can do that for driving – which is a privilege, not a right – then surely we can do that for concealed carry, which is a right, not a privileg*


Hmmmm. This appears to highlight the crux of the issue. The good citizens of the USA appear to believe that carrying a concealed firearm is more important than driving a vehicle. Common sense!

Talk about stuck in 1792.


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## welly2 (4/12/15)

Feldon said:


> To my mind the bigger problem are the violent computer games which desensitize people from childhood and trains them in the mental skills needed to carry out mass killings.


You don't seriously believe that do you? Tell me you don't.


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## Camo6 (4/12/15)

The problem isn't who owns guns or has the right to bear them but how readily and easily they can be obtained. The US needs to implement a nation wide registry system for all new firearms. Admittedly it would be a logistical nightmare to try and register all current firearms but most of these would be held by law abiding gun owners. But to slow the rate at which new arms can be obtained would make it harder for the nuts to take umbrage at something, pop down to Walmart for an AR16 and start popping off whoever they choose.
It seems such an ingrained fear in so many Americans that the gubberment is trying to disarm them.
In Australia there's a simple process to acquire a new firearm. If it's the first registered in your name there's a 28 day cooling period (to let you calm down after your spat with the boss) as well as a decent period to acquire a licence in the first place. I'm a firearm owner and happily abide by these rules. I'll never have a need to purchase a gun on the way home from work due to any possible necessity aside from a zombie apocalypse.
I can respect the mentality that you have the right to own a gun but also respect the fact that it's primarily an instrument of death and should be treated that way.
But like mentioned above, it'd take a ballsy president to even attempt such a difficult task in such a gun toting society.


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## Mardoo (4/12/15)

Trump is an oncoming train called fascist plutocracy. All I can think of whenI see him talk is the elite classes in The Hunger Games.


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## Dave70 (4/12/15)

It would seem Trumps policy's certainly resonate with a particular kind of American voter..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZBYLIUqmIs


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/12/15)

Australia may not have the right to bear arms, but we do have the right to apply for a licence. Weather or not you get one is a different story.

We dont have that same wild west culture where even granny on the porch had a riffle

The USA will prob always have "The right to bear arms " in the constitution, but you really need to look at the context of what that means, and its basically to do with the Governemnt sanctioned militia than the right of Joe Average to just be able to walk down the street with a gun anytime he feels like it


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## wide eyed and legless (4/12/15)

A maneuver they could try is make it illegal to own automatic, rapid fire, military type hardware, government agencies to infiltrate any websites (similar to AHB) but American Home Gun owner type websites instead of having,'Show us your brew rig' or, 'Show us your hop garden' they could open a, 'Show us your fire power'.
Creating a sting for all those who are firstly dumb enough and secondly vain enough to post pics of their accumulated weapons, they would nail 90% just under the first category.


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## Kumamoto_Ken (4/12/15)

While there's nothing funny about the subject, as is often the case (IMO) The Simpson's take is extremely good (and very funny).

From The Cartridge Family episode...some brilliant lines.

Homer is looking at the guns. He picks up an unloaded handgun, points it at the clerk, and pulls the trigger several times.

CLERK: Whoa! Careful there, Annie Oakley.
HOMER: I don't have to be careful, I got a gun.

The clerk takes the gun, then holds up several items in succession.

CLERK: Well, you'll probably want the accessory kit. Holster...
HOMER: Oh, yeah.
CLERK: Bandoleer.
HOMER: Baby.
CLERK: Silencer.
HOMER: Mm-hmm.
CLERK: Loudener.
HOMER: Oh...
CLERK: Speed-cocker.
HOMER: Ooh, I like the sound of that!
CLERK: (holding up a huge weapon) And this is for shooting down police helicopters.
HOMER: Oh, I don't need anything like that... yet... Just give me my gun.

He tries to take the gun.

CLERK: I'm sorry, but the law requires a five-day waiting period. We've got to run a background check.
HOMER: Five days? But I'm mad now! I'd kill you if I had my gun.
CLERK: Yeah, well you don't.

Homer walks out of the store, muttering.

The five days have passed. Homer waits impatiently outside the gun store.

HOMER: Come on, come on, open up!

The gun salesman opens the shop, and Homer rushes inside to go to the toilet.

HOMER: Ah! That's the stuff! (He comes back out into the store.) Now, I believe you have some sort of firearm for me.
CLERK: (picking up a large wad of paper) Well, let's see here. According to your background check, you've been in a mental institution...
HOMER: Yeah.
CLERK: Frequent problems with alcohol...
HOMER: Oh heh heh, yeah.
CLERK: You beat up President Bush!
HOMER: Former President.

The clerk stamps the paper.

HOMER: "Potentially dangerous"?
CLERK: Relax, that just limits you to three handguns or less.
HOMER: Woo hoo!


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## Liam_snorkel (4/12/15)

Need to swap 'Obama' with 'congress' in the title of this thread for it to make sense.


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## Dave70 (4/12/15)

Is a plebiscite considered unconstitutional in the US? Surely not. 
Not implying the consensus is always right, but its a straight forward enough question to answer with the tick a of a box. 


A. I support a ban / amnesty on automatic weapons and handguns. 

B. I'm a ******* idiot. I support more guns in society.(God bless the United States)

Give the people what they want, enforce the decision by law. Cant be any fairer / democratic than that.


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## danbeer (4/12/15)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Tip my hat to Howard for doing that and soooo glad I was born to this country too. Our minds are wired differently to Americans on this subject.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Howards laws have been so effective, that they managed to start the trend in reduction of firearms deaths more than 10 years before they were introduced!

Australia has a very differnt 'gun culture' to the USA, and always has. The best comparison to us would probably be NZ, culturaly - and thay still have acces to all their naughty semi-autos etal, yet strangely have noe of the issues of the USA.


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## danbeer (4/12/15)

klangers said:


> _ *fully automatic, battlefield-grade assault rifles hanging on the bloody shelf at Walmart.*_


Gunna call bullshit on that.


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## Black Devil Dog (5/12/15)

America is certainly reaping a bumper yield from the crop that It has sown. Such a shame that the crop is one of bloodshed, tragedy, heartbreak and misery. Sadly, probably for as long as there is a country named United States of America, they will be reaping similar or even more bountiful harvests from the seeds planted over 300 years ago.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/12/15)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Need to swap 'Obama' with 'congress' in the title of this thread for it to make sense.


Disagree with that Liam, a Presidents role is to take leadership and initiative, and now it seems he is, he is now considering an executive order to bypass congress.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-obama-gun-order-20151203-story.html

While listening to Neil Mitchell yesterday he interviewed an ex member of a swat team, who said the most guns they ever found on a bust that she was on was 10,000 in one house in South Carolina!
She did say they can never get all the guns off the street and also said that what they find in the police service the crims have better fire power than themselves, these will be the weapons they should be targeting.


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## Liam_snorkel (5/12/15)

No he actually can't do much.


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## goomboogo (5/12/15)

Liam, you are banging your head against a wall. You can't argue realities with people who have an unshakeable starting point that Republicans are good and Democrats are bad.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/12/15)

No goomboogo I am not arguing that Republicans are the good guys, in my opinion they are further right than I would like, and they are the fly in the ointment as far as the gun control is concerned, one would like to think common sense would prevail, but seemingly not.


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## Spohaw (5/12/15)

American is a direct democracy and thinking that the president or any one else in politics has the power to change the gun laws over there without the people's blessing is wrong 

I think the only reason little johnny was able to implement the gun buy back thingo was that we are a representative democracy and he could put things in place without the publics consent 

I know everyone thinks out country is the smarter one when it comes to gun laws and controls but I don't know if anything would have been done if we actually had a say on the matter way back then 

Direct democracy only works when the people aren't retarded 

That's why Switzerland works well under the direct democracy system and the US doesn't I think 

They need to change how the people think if they want to change anything and as far as I can see the people don't want anything to change 

They must be happy with how things are 

Bless them


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/12/15)

Check this map out

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/heres-a-map-of-all-the-mass-shootings-in-2015/


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/12/15)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-05/new-york-times-publishes-front-page-editorial-on-gun-violence/7004628


There have been 353 mass shootings in America in 2015, according to Mass Shooting Tracker, a website which records data of shootings in the United States.
The site defines a mass shooting as when "four or more people are shot in an event, or related series of events, likely without a cooling off period".
There have been 12,281 deaths and 24,803 injuries due to gun violence in the United States this year according to the Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit organisation that publishes information about gun violence.


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## sponge (6/12/15)

So, guns.. amirite? 

Pew, pew.


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## TheWiggman (6/12/15)

(Ed: just saw the atrocious punctuation, hope I didn't offend anyone)


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## jlm (6/12/15)

technobabble66 said:


> Again, i think most of us don't think you're trying/intending to be racist. But the bottom line is that it is.


Simple fact. **** should pull his head in. Bans have been handed out for less.


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## manticle (7/12/15)

I have pruned this thread of a variety of comments made. Many were initially valid in context of other, earliercomments but all in all they have veered way off topic.

Please keep the discussion reasonably on topic (gun control in the US) and be aware that further diversions can and will result in the thread being permanently locked. I prefer open discussion to censorship or hiding - in this particular case there was a forum member's request for an edit which led to the other off topic posts becoming irrelevant to that post and very irrelevant to the specific topic.

Please can all forum members familiarise themselves with all guidelines but specifically the following three:

6. Content of a discriminative nature based on gender, race, religion, political beliefs, disability or sexual orientation may be deleted at the discretion of the site administrators.

14. Posts complaining about moderation, or discussing administrative decisions will be deleted. Such discussion should take place via Private Message

15. Posts believed to be "trolling", off-topic or deliberately hijacking a thread will be deleted.

Full guidelines/board rules found here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules
.

Thankyou


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## Liam_snorkel (8/12/15)

https://media.giphy.com/media/auhAyyD2fSdBm/giphy.gif


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## Kumamoto_Ken (16/12/15)

The NRA hits back!

Article (with embedded video) here.

_"...the NRA video leaves no stone unturned and none of its demons unscathed as it connects the dots, as the video's introduction says, between "the global alliance of elitists, media activists, Hollywood celebrities, campus radicals and political power mongers who have openly attacked sacred American values and the people who cherish them with ruthlessness, contempt and downright hatred," who share "the same fanatical fervour to tear apart the foundations of America as the terrorists who threaten our very survival"._

_"The video is proudly sponsored by Kimber, purveyor and manufacturer of guns."_

I tried to go to the Kimber webpage just then...blocked at work and the reason? Category: Crime/Terrorism (Global)


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## Liam_snorkel (16/12/15)

Haha, idiots.


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## Dave70 (16/12/15)

Kumamoto_Ken said:


> The NRA hits back!
> 
> Article (with embedded video) here.
> 
> ...



And apparently spearheaded the assault with an arsenal of catchphrases.


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## Bridges (16/12/15)

klangers said:


> _ *fully automatic, battlefield-grade assault rifles hanging on the bloody shelf at Walmart.*_





danbeer said:


> Gunna call bullshit on that.


Try this maybe this or this, klangers' comment isn't a long way off the mark, remembering this is only what they list on the interwebs not all that is available.


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## Florian (16/12/15)

Bridges said:


> Try this maybe this or this, klangers' comment isn't a long way off the mark, remembering this is only what they list on the interwebs not all that is available.


Full auto???


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## Mardoo (16/12/15)

True, but finding a firing sear for a semi-auto and getting it fitted is a doddle in the States.


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## Bridges (16/12/15)

Florian said:


> Full auto???


No but still weapons available at walmart, let me try again, klangers has been called out as bullshit, I don't think it's total bullshit just a stretching of the truth.


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## Camo6 (16/12/15)

Bridges said:


> Try this maybe this or this, klangers' comment isn't a long way off the mark, remembering this is only what they list on the interwebs not all that is available.


Sorry Bridges, you've only linked to manual and self loaders with pretty camo schemes. Afaik most states don't permit full automatic weapons without the proper permits. Admittedly they sell similar models to military issue but in a self loading variant. Still, there's no denying that access to extremely efficient, legal firearms is all too easy without even going into accessing illegal weapons.


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## Camo6 (16/12/15)

Although, I suppose in a way it's somewhat true as I've seen enough Dan Bilzerian footage to make one shake their head.


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## Florian (16/12/15)

Bridges said:


> No but still weapons available at walmart, let me try again, klangers has been called out as bullshit, I don't think it's total bullshit just a stretching of the truth.


Pretty sure when danbeer called bullshit he refered to the fully automatic battle grade comment, not to the well known fact that you can buy guns at walmart.

Edit: agree that there are probably way too many guns floating around but we don't have to paint the picture any worse than it is in reality just to get the point across.


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## wide eyed and legless (16/12/15)

Mardoo said:


> True, but finding a firing sear for a semi-auto and getting it fitted is a doddle in the States.


Spot on, the weapons used in the last massacre in California were easily reverted to fully automatic.


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## Camo6 (16/12/15)

Mardoo said:


> True, but finding a firing sear for a semi-auto and getting it fitted is a doddle in the States.


The perfect accompaniment for your 3D printed AR-16 action.

It was common practice in my old man's era to file down the trigger mech of certain .22 self loaders so you could empty a clip in half a second. But the bunnies were more dangerous back then.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/12/15)

Dave70 said:


> And apparently spearheaded the assault with an arsenal of catchphrases.


I saw what you did there


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## Brooa (16/12/15)

First of all let me say that I'm an ex-serviceman trained in the correct & safe use/storage of fire arms. I don't currently own a firearm. Do I believe we should be allowed to own (not carry) firearms.......Yes I do. I also believe there should be strict rules & regulations around such allowances. Do I think guns are the problem?..........Hell no!!!!! I'm sure that if I was that type of person, I could run down Queen St. Mall in Brisbane holding a screwdriver, & kill a heap of people before someone took me down. The bottom line is "Guns don't kill people......People do". Gun ownership just has to be manage properly. The way Howard did it after Port Arthur, while well intentioned, took the guns off the wrong people. i.e: The law abiding people. The criminals/underworld still get their hands on high powered automatic, or concealable firearms. I wish I knew the answer but I don't. I do know that taking guns off everyone, only takes them off those who would never have used them illegally anyway.
Just my two bobs worth.


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## Rocker1986 (17/12/15)

I highly doubt you could kill anywhere near as many people with a screwdriver before someone took you down than a bloody high powered firearm. That's a ridiculous argument and one perpetuated by the pro-gun morons in America all too often.

While it may true that guns by themselves don't kill anyone, the problem is, they make it a hell of a lot easier for those of that intent to do so. You want to come at me from 50 metres with your screwdriver while I stand there and take pot shots with a rifle and we'll see who drops first...

The point is, we are allowed to own firearms. We just have to go through a hell of a lot more screening and checks etc. to get that permit, and rightly so, because it keeps the ownership mainly in the hands of those who would never use them illegally, unlike America where any old psycho can go buy a gun whenever they feel like it and go and kill a bunch of people. One can only wonder whether these people would attempt things like this if they had to rely on a screwdriver as their weapon...


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## danbeer (17/12/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Spot on, the weapons used in the last massacre in California were easily reverted to fully automatic.


And also Illegal to possess in California...


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## manticle (17/12/15)

Anyone who can seriously believe there is no correlation between gun deaths and ease of access to guns has rocks in their head.


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## danbeer (17/12/15)

Florian said:


> Pretty sure when danbeer called bullshit he refered to the fully automatic battle grade comment, not to the well known fact that you can buy guns at walmart.
> 
> Edit: agree that there are probably way too many guns floating around but we don't have to paint the picture any worse than it is in reality just to get the point across.


Yes. This. The assertion made was that fully automatic batle rifles are available over the counter at Walmart. This is of course fabricated FUD bullshit.
Fully-automatic guns are available over there, but less common than you might think given what you see on TV. You won't see one on the shelf in Wally world.
Yes, I have spent some considerable time there...


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## Bridges (17/12/15)

manticle said:


> Anyone who can seriously believe there is no correlation between gun deaths and ease of access to guns has rocks in their head.


And guns in their home...


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## danbeer (17/12/15)

manticle said:


> Anyone who can seriously believe there is no correlation between gun deaths and ease of access to guns has rocks in their head.


And anyone who beleives blaming an inanimate object for societies ills is also simmilarly delusional.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/12/15)

Let's just give everyone nukes instead, see how your logic holds up.


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## manticle (17/12/15)

danbeer said:


> And anyone who beleives blaming an inanimate object for societies ills is also simmilarly delusional.


Who said the gun was to blame for society's ills (whatever they may be)?

Long bow, drawn tight.


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/12/15)

danbeer said:


> but less common than you might think given what you see on TV.



You need to join Facebook


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## danbeer (17/12/15)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Let's just give everyone nukes instead, see how your logic holds up.


I know you're being facetious, but having nukes has largely worked out pretty well for the countries that have them.


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## idzy (17/12/15)

Brooa said:


> First of all let me say that I'm an ex-serviceman trained in the correct & safe use/storage of fire arms. I don't currently own a firearm. Do I believe we should be allowed to own (not carry) firearms.......Yes I do. I also believe there should be strict rules & regulations around such allowances. Do I think guns are the problem?..........Hell no!!!!! I'm sure that if I was that type of person, I could run down Queen St. Mall in Brisbane holding a screwdriver, & kill a heap of people before someone took me down. The bottom line is "Guns don't kill people......People do". Gun ownership just has to be manage properly. The way Howard did it after Port Arthur, while well intentioned, took the guns off the wrong people. i.e: The law abiding people. The criminals/underworld still get their hands on high powered automatic, or concealable firearms. I wish I knew the answer but I don't. I do know that taking guns off everyone, only takes them off those who would never have used them illegally anyway.
> Just my two bobs worth.


What Howard did was take what was a legally available firearm and make it illegal. Then proceeded to take them out of peoples hands. Martin Bryant didn't obtain the firearm illegally and wouldn't be able to commit the same offense now. It is easy to say, oh you can go and get illegal firearms. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't know where to get one personally and imagine many are the same, therefore when someone flies off the handle, they only have access to a bolt action, or other, but not a semi-auto.


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## manticle (17/12/15)

Screwdriver.
Yep. Good one.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/12/15)

danbeer said:


> I know you're being facetious, but having nukes has largely worked out pretty well for the countries that have them.


We're talking about individual people, not countries. I wasn't being facetious so much as extending his logic to to an extreme to illustrate the point. 
If every country only had one firearm each...


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## Liam_snorkel (17/12/15)

Put it this way, for your analogy to stand, ISIS would have access to nukes. They don't. And neither should disenfranchised teenagers or disgruntled religious fanatics have access to firearms.


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## manticle (17/12/15)

How about screwdrivers?
Can do a lot of damage with an allen key. **** you up real good, especially a 3/8"


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## Liam_snorkel (17/12/15)

If a man comes at you with a banana..


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## manticle (17/12/15)

Careful dem raspberries.
Carry a ring spanner at all times.

Failing that simply pull the lever and a sixteen ton should fall on their head.


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## Black Devil Dog (17/12/15)

Liam_snorkel said:


> If a man comes at you with a banana..









You can buy these weapons from any farmers market, they just need a bit of modifying.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/15)

Yes there will always be people who will/want to kill other people for no logical reason

Now a gun for a criminal here is a lot harder to get than a gun in the USA for a criminal


As to Howards buy back, I know lots of blokes who handed in old shitty weapons and got enough to buy new guns.. Mate handed a few old dead guns and got enough to buy a full stainless Tikka .17

PVC pipe sales when up a touch as well


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## jlm (18/12/15)

How the **** do you manage to run down Queen St Mall holding a vodka + orange and kill heaps of people?


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Yes there will always be people who will/want to kill other people for no logical reason
> 
> Now a gun for a criminal here is a lot harder to get than a gun in the USA for a criminal
> 
> ...



Ahh..
You see to the layman, the tray of a plumbers ute just looks like hotchpotch of pipe off cuts, glue tins, fittings and the odd rusty water heater. 
But to the trained eye its actually an armaments repository.
In less than the time it takes to drink a stubbie I could be hurling lemons or potatoes (correctly sized) in your (general) direction, some containing heart attack inducing invoice warheads.
Can be easily adapted to fire a pigs trotter wrapped in a pornographic magazine sabot should islamac state want to try it on.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/15)

Plumbers have always been known as just a front to arms manufacture and distribution


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

Look for a spike in sales of metal detectors to I reckon. I bet a whole bunch of those beer coaster treasure maps where X marks the PVC have been lost or are now illegible. 
Australia a big place. And one tree or rocky outcrop looks much the same as the next.


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## manticle (18/12/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> You can buy these weapons from any farmers market, they just need a bit of modifying.


I would buy one


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## sponge (18/12/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Plumbers have always been known as just a front to arms manufacture and distribution


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## Mattress (18/12/15)

The police investigation into the shooting of Curtis Cheng at Parramatta police station in October has revealed that the fuckwits who took part had spent at least 7 months trying to get a gun.

7 MONTHS TO GET A GUN!

I'd say our gun laws are working.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3272062/Police-knew-young-men-investigated-teenager-Farhad-Jabar-shot-dead-police-worker-Parramatta-trying-source-gun-March.html


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## tavas (18/12/15)

Dave70 said:


> Ahh..
> You see to the layman, the tray of a plumbers ute just looks like hotchpotch of pipe off cuts, glue tins, fittings and the odd rusty water heater.
> But to the trained eye its actually an armaments repository.
> In less than the time it takes to drink a stubbie I could be hurling lemons or potatoes (correctly sized) in your (general) direction, some containing heart attack inducing invoice warheads.
> Can be easily adapted to fire a pigs trotter wrapped in a pornographic magazine sabot should islamac state want to try it on.


Good luck getting a team of plumbers to to fight terrorists. First they'd need a $150 call out fee, arrive 3 hours late then say they need to order parts and not come back for 4 weeks.
And trying to coordinate more than 2 tradies on the same day...forget it!!


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> You can buy these weapons from any farmers market, they just need a bit of modifying.


Easily foiled.


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

tavas said:


> Good luck getting a team of plumbers to to fight terrorists. First they'd need a $150 call out fee, arrive 3 hours late then say they need to order parts and not come back for 4 weeks.
> And trying to coordinate more than 2 tradies on the same day...forget it!!


Cash. No receipt. Lets roll.


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## Bridges (18/12/15)

Wow and here I was thinking that the plumbers arsenal started and stopped at a paper bag full of acetylene.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/15)

tavas said:


> Good luck getting a team of plumbers to to fight terrorists. First they'd need a $150 call out fee, arrive 3 hours late then say they need to order parts and not come back for 4 weeks.
> And trying to coordinate more than 2 tradies on the same day...forget it!!


MATE....your doing it all wrong. You need to get wise to the underworld of tradies......


You need to start at the pub first...after about 5pm. No tradie ever is late to the pub


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## Black Devil Dog (18/12/15)

If a man comes at you with a banana.. 



Dave70 said:


> Easily foiled.


I suppose a ladyboy is technically a man...


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

Black Devil Dog said:


> If a man comes at you with a banana..
> 
> I suppose a ladyboy is technically a man...


That's why I always keep a ladyboy in my glove box. 




*Top Tip* - drill some ventilation holes and put some shredded newspaper down.


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## pcmfisher (18/12/15)

I would not know where to source an illegal gun in Australia and I reckon few would.

I doubt if you could go and ask at your local pub.

I like the idea that the average person under 25 years old in Australia has probably never even seen a gun let alone fired one.


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## sponge (18/12/15)

I saw a movie with a gun in it once..

Didn't care for it.


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

sponge said:


> I saw a movie with a gun in it once..
> 
> Didn't care for it.


A mate use to own a SKS. Basically a cheap Russian assault rifle. Noisy and inaccurate, basically only good for blasting rounds as quick as you could squeeze the trigger. 
The full jacket military surplus ammo was cheaper than chips and we all use to chuck in and take boxes of the shit away - some was even destined for machine gunning apparently since you had remove the rounds from the canvas webbing. 
May not be everyone's cuppa, but it was most certainly mine. Even my little unreliable Stirling .22 auto was a hoot. Never failed to put a smile the face of the user, particularly first timers. Mindless noisy fun. But hey, I like wheelies and burnouts and jet motors to, so if the shoe fits I guess. 

Despite that, I'm glad they banned them. What's right is right. And it only took basically two massacres, Strathfield and Port Arthur and a total of 43 dead for authorities to get the message.


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## Feldon (18/12/15)

How to sneak a chocolate bar into an American cinema...


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## manticle (18/12/15)

Dave70 said:


> And it only took basically two massacres, Strathfield and Port Arthur and a total of 43 dead for authority's to get the message.



+ Hoddle st
+Queen st
etc


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## TheWiggman (18/12/15)

pcmfisher said:


> I like the idea that the average person under 25 years old in Australia has probably never even seen a gun let alone fired one.


Why? Average people aren't crims. I think having used and having respect for firearms is a good thing.


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## manticle (18/12/15)

I'm glad most people probably never get to touch a cold cut saw considering how they operate vehicles.


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## TheWiggman (18/12/15)

A bad driver doesn't make for a poor metalworker.
Ed: maybe I should expand. I get your point. But for example I worked as a welder with a fellow welder who had lost his licence yet still drove to work. Hit redline most days he left the joint (part of the reason he lost the licence). Yet when it came to the cold saw, he would near threaten to kill people when he saw them hang off the arm. So while the imagery seems appropriate, if we tarnish all walks of life with the same brush of lowest common denominator nobody should be allowed to leave their homes. 
This doesn't make it ok for everyone to own a firearm. Conversely is doesn't mean nobody should be exposed to them, as this wouldn't make for a safer society because the wrong people will still get hold of them.


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## mofox1 (18/12/15)

Heh. And I thought mant's was taking about deli meat.

Carry on.


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## jlm (18/12/15)

The above (wiggman) sums it up. Everyone has the potential in them to be a selfish dickhead who puts others at risk. I do it here and there. I'm grown up enough to realise that it happens and admit it. There will never be a black and white solution to keep us completely free from being fucked up by someone else's dickheadishness. 

Try not to be an asshole who fucks things up for everyone else, especially if you own a firearm. 

We'll never eliminate the crazies who have access to cars/guns/dogs/hammers but YOU can do your best for these groups by not being a fuckwit, and if you are a fuckwit and you have your access to these things you like taken away from you...... Don't blame the nanny state, blame yourself for being a fuckwit and other fuckwits like yourself who bought on the regulation that keeps fuckwits away from things that helps them do fuckwittish things.


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## manticle (18/12/15)

TheWiggman said:


> A bad driver doesn't make for a poor metalworker.
> Ed: maybe I should expand. I get your point. But for example I worked as a welder with a fellow welder who had lost his licence yet still drove to work. Hit redline most days he left the joint (part of the reason he lost the licence). Yet when it came to the cold saw, he would near threaten to kill people when he saw them hang off the arm. So while the imagery seems appropriate, if we tarnish all walks of life with the same brush of lowest common denominator nobody should be allowed to leave their homes.
> This doesn't make it ok for everyone to own a firearm. Conversely is doesn't mean nobody should be exposed to them, as this wouldn't make for a safer society because the wrong people will still get hold of them.


Of course people shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.
I was both joking and calling people at large stupid at the same time. Different kinds of stupid but stupid nonetheless.


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## goomboogo (18/12/15)

mofox1 said:


> Heh. And I thought mant's was taking about deli meat.
> 
> Carry on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcFZIj96LwY


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

manticle said:


> I'm glad most people probably never get to touch a cold cut saw considering how they operate vehicles.


Or Micky Rourke. Remember that deli scene in The Wrestler? 

**_shivers_**


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## TheWiggman (18/12/15)

On topic, the biggest problem with all this is the word 'right'. The supposed 'right' to own a gun. Absolute bullshit in my opinion. It is a privilege, not a right, and a significant privilege at that. The sooner we get that concept out of the USA's heads the better. But good luck with that.


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## Dave70 (18/12/15)

TheWiggman said:


> A bad driver doesn't make for a poor metalworker.
> Ed: maybe I should expand. I get your point. But for example I worked as a welder with a fellow welder who had lost his licence yet still drove to work. Hit redline most days he left the joint (part of the reason he lost the licence). Yet when it came to the cold saw, he would near threaten to kill people when he saw them hang off the arm. So while the imagery seems appropriate,* if we tarnish all walks of life with the same brush of lowest common denominator nobody should be allowed to leave their homes.*
> This doesn't make it ok for everyone to own a firearm. Conversely is doesn't mean nobody should be exposed to them, as this wouldn't make for a safer society because the wrong people will still get hold of them.


And thats _exactly_ how we're governed and regulated.


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## antiphile (18/12/15)

The way I understand it is the 2nd amendment was ratified in the 1790s. What I can't understand is why aren't people who insist on exercising their constitutional rights restricted to weapons available at that time? It's a bit difficult to do rapid fire with a musket or blunderbus.


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## tavas (18/12/15)

Surprised no one has linked to this. So I think I will.


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## Liam_snorkel (19/12/15)

antiphile said:


> The way I understand it is the 2nd amendment was ratified in the 1790s. What I can't understand is why aren't people who insist on exercising their constitutional rights restricted to weapons available at that time? It's a bit difficult to do rapid fire with a musket or blunderbus.


This is a point that people tend to miss. Well said.


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## pcmfisher (19/12/15)

TheWiggman said:


> Why? Average people aren't crims. I think having used and having respect for firearms is a good thing.


Ok, I will say it a different way.

I like the idea that relatively few people own guns and there are relatively few guns in Australia and because of this fewer younger people have any exposure to them.
They are not interested in them so why would using and having respect for them be a good thing? In case they have to bear arms one day?

I am not saying people should not be allowed to own guns. I think our rules are pretty good right now.

Criminals are not the only reason that others die with guns. In the US thousands die each year from copping a stray bullet while riding their bike or being shot from an accidental discharge.

Less interest in guns = less guns = less gun related deaths.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/12/15)

pcmfisher said:


> Less interest in guns = less guns = less gun related deaths.



Exactly.

if you want to own and use a gun, no one is stopping you ( legally of course ). BUT...that does not mean the gun owners should try and force their views onto others because they think that everyone should have guns and that most people are Ok and wont go around killing people


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## spog (19/12/15)

TheWiggman said:


> On topic, the biggest problem with all this is the word 'right'. The supposed 'right' to own a gun. Absolute bullshit in my opinion. It is a privilege, not a right, and a significant privilege at that. The sooner we get that concept out of the USA's heads the better. But good luck with that.


+1. People who claim " it's my right " to my mind are enough to give diarrhoea the shits, and me.
Rights my arse ! Privilege/ privileges is all we have.

Ahhhh I feel better now.


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## antiphile (25/12/15)

OK. My christmas is now complete 'cos this ABC News story is absolutely precious. The USA is complaining about anti-terror laws in China, including the requirement of back doors in software and operating systems! 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-25/china-set-to-pass-controversial-anti-terror-law/7054210

I genuinely think I'm going to throw up from laughing so much.


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