# Carbonating Bottle Beer Without A Keg Or Priming



## dalpets (17/12/10)

Hi everyone,

Just wondering if one does not want to go to a full kegging setup and wants to omit bottle priming if it is possible to force bottle carbonate brewed beer and, if it is, what equipment is available to do so.

Thanks for your input.
dalpets


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## Phoney (17/12/10)

You could just get used to drinking flat beer. :lol:


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## Adam Howard (17/12/10)

You could be an absolute renegade and bottle at a calculated point before fermenting finishes to allow final gravity to be reached in the bottle for carbonation. 

Can be done.


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## dalpets (17/12/10)

Adamski29 said:


> You could be an absolute renegade and bottle at a calculated point before fermenting finishes to allow final gravity to be reached in the bottle for carbonation.
> 
> Can be done.



Thanks, but probably not an option with 14 days secondary conditioning. Some years ago I recall their were small CO2 metal capsules with an infuser bottle for carbonating home made soft drinks. Looking for something that could inject CO2 into stubbie bottles. Would no doubt need an infusion adaptor but sounds like this would be a pretty way out method in the home brewing area and whilst feasible may just not be practical.


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## Hatchy (17/12/10)

What's the problem with bulk priming?


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## dalpets (17/12/10)

Hatchy said:


> What's the problem with bulk priming?


Well keggers avoid it, don't they? It would be only a variation on a kegging theme and I don't see what the problem would be if the infusion was regulated and done at cold enough temp. I notice one Aussie brew shop has a bottle adaptor for carbonating so I will follow that up with them.

Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (17/12/10)

The seller referred to in my above post says the adaptor gadget is for

"Use with a PET bottle to carbonate contents - great for bottling kegged beers (especially for competitions), making your own soda water or re-gassing flat beer or soft drink".

Seems like nobody has used it or similar?


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## Hatchy (17/12/10)

Some keggers prime with sugar, I force carb so I can drink it straight away. I reckon yr plan is probably more hassle than it's worth but I may be wrong.

Is there a reason you don't want to either keg or bulk prime in bottles?


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## kelbygreen (17/12/10)

no one has used it? on craft brewer says its there hottest item lol But the counter pressure filler would be the best but from what I gather you need a already gassed keg to use that. cant comment on pet bottle adapter. never used ether, if I want to take a beer out pour from tap and cap straight away, use that night and your fine.


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## dalpets (17/12/10)

Hatchy said:


> Some keggers prime with sugar, I force carb so I can drink it straight away. I reckon yr plan is probably more hassle than it's worth but I may be wrong.
> 
> Is there a reason you don't want to either keg or bulk prime in bottles?



1) Seems from my reading that there are just as many detractors of kegging systems as proponents for it. Some due to dissatisfaction have apparently given it away and gone back to bottle priming.
2) Bottle infusion, methinks, would be less labour intensive-no weighing out of primer, no mixing in & probably less messy.
3) Bottle infusion would be much less expensive than a kegging system.
4) The necessity to keep one/two kegs in a fridge militates against doing a next brew in the short term. I suppose if you are happy with the same brew for months at a time the space they take up would not be a problem, but at least with bottles you can remove them after 14 days or so and store them elsewhere & get on with another brew. 

Now, mate, tell me why you think it would be a hassle. Surely there would be less paraphenalia to worry about than a kegging system!
Would I be right in saying that most keggers would force carb?. I would have thought, for most, that would be the whole point of it! 

Cheers
dalpets


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## Hatchy (18/12/10)

1) I've only seen one bloke mention on here that he's given up kegging to go back to bottling, he had some good reasons but I can't remember what they were.

2) I've obviously got a different mental picture to you about what yr trying to do. I found bulk priming pretty easy before I got my kegs & the waiting wasn't too bad.

3) You may save some money this way but you'd still need a co2 bottle & reg which was about half of what I spent to get my kegging gear.

I've got 5 kegs & rarely have more than 2 of them full. Most go in under a week. I probably drink more than most & my mates have learnt that they no longer need to bring beer to my place so mine rarely last a week. A corny is only 19L or a bit over 2 slabs, it's not that much beer.

Anyway, let us know how you go. I'm happy to keg the majority of my beer & just fill a bottle from the tap & cap it if I want to take beer out with me.


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## bum (18/12/10)

I've never used one but I thought carbonator caps were used to pressurise a bottle after carbonated beer was poured in from a regular keg tap? 

I'm not sure they do what you think they do, dalpets.


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

Hatchy said:


> 1) I've only seen one bloke mention on here that he's given up kegging to go back to bottling, he had some good reasons but I can't remember what they were.



If one went on other global forums, other than AHB, one would probably find some pretty strong arguments both for & against. It would depend, though, on the sample size to make an informed opinion of peoples' views. 



> 2) I've obviously got a different mental picture to you about what yr trying to do. I found bulk priming pretty easy before I got my kegs & the waiting wasn't too bad.



I like to hone processes right down, if I can, based on my own and others experiences. Up to this point no one has said that they have used the method I am proposing. If it is not in vogue then a reasonably adept inventor/engineer wouldn't have much trouble designing such a simple system. 

A few people have, for instance, elsewhere denigrated the Sedex brewing bottle sediment filter that two guys invented a few years ago, saying that the concept didn't really take on in the market place. Well I am trialling them at the moment and they are certainly catching the sediment A hassle!, well that's up to the individual to decide. As opposed to what some detractors have said they can be dismantled into two pieces and be effectively sanitized & reused. They are also now reasonably priced. I'll keep the list posted on that one.



> 3) You may save some money this way but you'd still need a co2 bottle & reg which was about half of what I spent to get my kegging gear.



Still a saving not to be sneezed at, mate, if indeed it's practicable. 



> I've got 5 kegs & rarely have more than 2 of them full. Most go in under a week. I probably drink more than most & my mates have learnt that they no longer need to bring beer to my place so mine rarely last a week. A corny is only 19L or a bit over 2 slabs, it's not that much beer.



Lucky them!. You must be a godsend! . I don't move anywhere as much with the pack as I did when I was much younger than I am now (with a ball & chain), so my drinking habits could be said to be more moderate these days. Hence, my approach is to brew smaller batches so that i can experience as many styles as possible before they cart me off in a box.



> Anyway, let us know how you go. I'm happy to keg the majority of my beer & just fill a bottle from the tap & cap it if I want to take beer out with me.


 Sure, hatchy, i'll let this thread know when I have something concrete to report on.


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## Banshee (18/12/10)

I believe the system you are looking for is a Soda Stream machine or similar. It is the only method I know of which you can carbonate a drink without priming or kegging.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (18/12/10)

Not having a go at you mate but it seems you are over complicating something that has pretty simple and fairly accepted methods to get the job done. 

But good on you for looking for an alternate.


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

Banshee said:


> I believe the system you are looking for is a Soda Stream machine or similar. It is the only method I know of which you can carbonate a drink without priming or kegging.



Thanks for that. I checked out the site & really they can only be used with water. The flavouring is added after carbonation. Any other type of use is problematic. So I'll give that a miss.

Anyhow it shows it can be done!

Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Not having a go at you mate but it seems you are over complicating something that has pretty simple and fairly accepted methods to get the job done.
> 
> But good on you for looking for an alternate.


Not really AR I just like to suss things out. Progress is only made by looking at other possibilities. I guess if we look at history, mate, there are plenty of examples of things being accepted that were initially ridiculed.

I've now done my sussing & will stick to conventional wisdom, as it now stands. Who am I to buck the system (LOL)

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers
dalpets


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## felten (18/12/10)

I've used a soda stream to carbonate beer before (using the supplied bottles), it froths everywhere when you release the pressure and the carbonation is quite harsh, but it can be done. 

I'm sure you could hook a sodastream machine up to a carbonator cap and just force carb it that way, but I imagine it would be pretty hit and miss. There's no pressure relief valve on a carbonator cap
(though the machines have one inside) and the bottles can't hold as much pressure as a keg, it could be very dangerous. 

Or you could get a sodastream adapter and regulator, that adds a bit of consistency and safety to it. (something like this)


Maybe you should invest in some party kegs, check out the party keg thread and using your party keg PDF.


oh and 


> 4) The necessity to keep one/two kegs in a fridge militates against doing a next brew in the short term. I suppose if you are happy with the same brew for months at a time the space they take up would not be a problem, but at least with bottles you can remove them after 14 days or so and store them elsewhere & get on with another brew.


That's where a second fridge/kegerator comes into play, I think most people with kegs have a dedicated fridge for them.


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## Effect (18/12/10)

Buy 1 keg and a gas bottle with a regulator and one cpbf. After your 2 weeks secondary force carb in the keg and then bottle it all with the cpbf. This way you get the benefits of having your beer force carbed and all in bottles straight away and you don't have a whole keg inthe fridge with only one beer.

You could even bottle 2+ batches in a day this way.

Do any of your friends have kegs? They could possibly let you borrow some of their equipment or maybe sell you their equipment as they have found out all the negatives of kegging and want to go back into bottling??

Cheers
Phil.


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## Ross (18/12/10)

Phillip said:


> Buy 1 keg and a gas bottle with a regulator and one cpbf. After your 2 weeks secondary force carb in the keg and then bottle it all with the cpbf. This way you get the benefits of having your beer force carbed and all in bottles straight away and you don't have a whole keg inthe fridge with only one beer.
> 
> You could even bottle 2+ batches in a day this way.
> 
> ...




You beat me to it Phil, the above IMHO would be the easiest most cost effective to do what I believe you are trying to achieve.

Cheers Ross


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## bum (18/12/10)

Given that he said in the first post that he doesn't want to set up a kegging system how is bottle priming not the easiest and most cost effective way to get bubbles in his beer?


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## tcraig20 (18/12/10)

I know one guy who primes with dry ice...


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

Ross said:


> You beat me to it Phil, the above IMHO would be the easiest most cost effective to do what I believe you are trying to achieve.
> 
> Cheers Ross


Ah!, now we're cooking. Thanks guys for a sensible cost effective solution. i knew there must be a way!.


A merry Xmas to you all,

Cheers
dalpets


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## felten (18/12/10)

That's it? buying a keg was the solution to your problem of not wanting to keg? why even make us rack our brains?!


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## bum (18/12/10)

But there must be a much more complex way to do it!


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

Phillip said:


> Buy 1 keg and a gas bottle with a regulator and one cpbf. After your 2 weeks secondary force carb in the keg and then bottle it all with the cpbf. This way you get the benefits of having your beer force carbed and all in bottles straight away and you don't have a whole keg inthe fridge with only one beer.
> 
> You could even bottle 2+ batches in a day this way.
> 
> ...



Fair enough but I daresay it would be a more involved & circuitous route than the relative simplicity of bottle priming, or better still, direct infusion from a C02 bottle.

Thanks


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

JamesCraig said:


> I know one guy who primes with dry ice...



It must be a whisky beer! Can't say I've ever tried one (LOL).


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## Effect (18/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Fair enough but I daresay it would be a more involved & circuitous route than the relative simplicity of bottle priming, or better still, direct infusion from a C02 bottle.
> 
> Thanks



direct infusion from a co2 bottle to me is force carbing - which is what I was recommending. Direct infuse the beer with a gas bottle. then bottle that beer.


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## haysie (18/12/10)

some brett brewers me included have bottled with no priming, gizmos or kegs. Horses for courses. Maybe a claussini APA or an old ale Brux. Throwing it out that _it is possible _to carbonate a beer without priming. An earlier mention that wasnt silly at all was bottle prior to primary finishing, a little dangerous but worth a try with say PET bottles.
Merry Xmas All.

adamski was the earlier post I mentioned. Bottle a weizen before primary finishing? why not. I dont think it would be to hard.


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## dalpets (18/12/10)

Phillip said:


> direct infusion from a co2 bottle to me is force carbing - which is what I was recommending. Direct infuse the beer with a gas bottle. then bottle that beer.



Given that a keg is a closed system how would forced carbing work for an open bottle?.

Also, does a formula exist for carbing a bottle ie.,that mimics the priming or kegging levels of CO2?.

You also seem to be saying, contrary to a couple of other views in this thread, that a keg is not required as an intermediate step for bottle carbonating. Or are you implying a keg is involved?. Which should be my understanding?.

Thanks


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## felten (18/12/10)

Apparently my comments upset dalpets and he has informed me that since I've never rendered ANY positive contributions to the forum/his threads, and that my sole intent on this forum is to criticise people, and that I'm the kind of person that gets gratification from publicly humiliating others, unfortunately he has hence relegated me to his ignore list.

Needless to say I am shattered, and this has made me rethink my whole view on life.



Can you taste the sarcasm? I'm not sure if this guy is blind or just a drama queen, but I'm leaning towards the latter. Anyone else get a stupid PM along these lines?. BTW I would have sent a PM but the thought of trying to be forced to defend myself via PM's from baseless allegations pissed me right off (also the fact I'm apparently on perma ignore).


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## speedie (18/12/10)

homebrew?


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## michael_aussie (19/12/10)

felten said:


> Apparently my comments upset dalpets and he has informed me that since I've never rendered ANY positive contributions to the forum/his threads, and that my sole intent on this forum is to criticise people, and that I'm the kind of person that gets gratification from publicly humiliating others, unfortunately he has hence relegated me to his ignore list.
> 
> Needless to say I am shattered, and this has made me rethink my whole view on life.
> 
> ...


careful felten... don't get too negative or Admin will delete the thread...


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## felten (19/12/10)

Sorry if it's offensive, but I'm a little peeved at receiving baseless attacks via PM from someone I've genuinely attempted to help on numerous occasions.

edit: dalpets since you're ignoring my PM's now , I'll have to post this here as there probably won't be a chance to elsewhere (turn away now if you don't like e-drama's). But if you want to clear up any misunderstandings on previous posts I've made on the forums then put some facts behind allegations and I'll try and clear them up, the offer is there.

mods feel free to delete if I've dragged this too offtopic.


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## felten (19/12/10)

dalpets said:


> No! YOU go back and look at all your slanted replies on the various threads. I've given you my sincere views of your modus operandi by PM. I don't need public support for my views as you appear to need it and I don't think it's appropriate, anyhow, on an open forum.
> 
> I apologize to all others on this forum for this stuff and I'm sure you're not really interested anyway (felten seems to think he can garner your sympathy) but I'm finished with this distraction and hopefully he has the sense to, as well.



Funny how your public posts differ from PM's, what happened to "as I would not take kindly to being denigrated or slandered on the open forum"

Anyway I'm done posting, as clearly you are just trying to create more drama by being a complete tosser in private. Good luck.


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## bum (19/12/10)

Oh. And here I was thinking I was special, dalpets. I am a sad panda.


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## Brewme (19/12/10)

dalpets said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Just wondering if one does not want to go to a full kegging setup and wants to omit bottle priming if it is possible to force bottle carbonate brewed beer and, if it is, what equipment is available to do so.
> 
> ...




Buy a brewery.


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## dalpets (19/12/10)

Brewme said:


> Buy a brewery.



I like that mate, you, indeed, have a sense of humour! (LOL)


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## dalpets (19/12/10)

Seems like the Sodastream adaption has been well covered in this 2008 AHB thread.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=28098


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## dalpets (19/12/10)

For those who want to use the Sodastream as it was intended to be used (not for beer carbonation) there are 20 or so consumer reviews at the following link. There is also a youtube video review online..

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews6075.html


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## felten (20/12/10)

dalpets said:


> All the above makes sense and I agree it could be very hit & miss. Easier to just go to a kegging system!.
> 
> Cheers dalpets


Yet it warranted an abusive PM, are you on meds?


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## Hatchy (20/12/10)

Have you worked out what you want to do dalpets? I do like Phil's idea from the 1st page of this thread but if the plan is for the beer to end up in bottles then I'd go with bulk priming. If you can't be bothered bottling but want some portability then a good sized swing top bottle filled from a keg has done the job for me. If you plan on having a session then take a keg with you. The $800 I spent on my kegs is possibly the best $800 I've spent in my life.


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## dalpets (21/12/10)

Hatchy said:


> Have you worked out what you want to do dalpets? I do like Phil's idea from the 1st page of this thread but if the plan is for the beer to end up in bottles then I'd go with bulk priming. If you can't be bothered bottling but want some portability then a good sized swing top bottle filled from a keg has done the job for me. If you plan on having a session then take a keg with you. The $800 I spent on my kegs is possibly the best $800 I've spent in my life.


 I agree, hatchy, everything points to my suggestions as being unwieldy (as they say keep it simple stupid!). I guess it was my new brewer over enthusiasm. I've got the picture now & would like to go to a kegging system, but I don't really want to pay $800 for it at this time. In any event I would only want one standard keg. 

For such a setup do you think I could manage it for say $400 or less?. i'm not looking for a dispenser tap in the fridge door sort of thing, just a basic 23 litre fridge setup.

Cheers
dalpets


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## bum (21/12/10)

dalpets said:


> everything points to my suggestions as being unwieldy (as they say keep it simple stupid!)


But look out anyone who might dare suggest a thing before he realises it for himself!


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## Hatchy (21/12/10)

$400 would almost get you started.

$75 keg
$200 co2
$100 reg
$30 non return valve
$8 picnic tap
$bugger all, beer line & disconnects

I don't see much value in having 1 keg. I've got 5 & rarely have more than 2 full. I have never felt that I have too many kegs though & wouldn't want to feel like I don't have enough.

Edit: those prices are from beerbelly a couple of months ago with no shopping around at all. You may be able to get stuff cheaper but that's what I paid.


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## dalpets (21/12/10)

Hatchy said:


> $400 would almost get you started.
> 
> $75 keg
> $200 co2
> ...


Thanks for that, Hatchy.

Wayne at Beerbelly would be my go to man. I guess I'm having a two way bet in wanting to be able to do both (bottle & keg) ie., to keep the fridge partly free. At the end of the day, I guess, I need to make a decision to go one way or the other, which makes the most sense. Having said that I don't consume large amounts of beer, probably my interest in all of this is rather to omit the priming step, and it makes sense also not to have to clean a collection of bottles. So for these reasons my thinking is for only one keg. I could always get more kegs down the track, if required.

dalpets


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## felten (21/12/10)

dalpets said:


> No it didn't!. You are absolutely correct, and I offered to give my apologies via PM. Will you allow me that concession by opening your PM to me to do so?.
> I will not go public on this if that is your aim, for whatever reason, but I'm prepared to privately do the decent thing required, in the circumstances.
> 
> It's up to you.
> ...


So let me get this straight, you sent me an abusive pm, put me on ignore straight away so I couldn't respond, then PM'd me twice more calling me out for posting in public, Then Pm'd me a bullshit reason (in which you never said anything about apologizing in fact you made it clear it was "the end of the road for us"). And now you want me to unblock YOU?

No. The decent thing would have to not be an unreasonable prick in the first place. Saying "I will not go public" is a crock, there was NO private discourse from me at all, it's all been public since I was blocked without a chance to reply, so you can shove that.

BTW I have you on ignore, so I guess I won't get your response. Good day sir.


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## brad05 (21/12/10)

Phillip said:


> Buy 1 keg and a gas bottle with a regulator and one cpbf. After your 2 weeks secondary force carb in the keg and then bottle it all with the cpbf. This way you get the benefits of having your beer force carbed and all in bottles straight away and you don't have a whole keg inthe fridge with only one beer.
> 
> You could even bottle 2+ batches in a day this way.
> 
> ...



In the hope I might add something useful to this conversation. 

I have a carbonation cap that can force carb a pet bottle. It is good for the odd beer or two and flat softdrink. It would take too long to carb a whole batch. 

Go with Phil's suggestion above. You can both bottle and keg. Why restrict yourself to only kegging or only bottling?

Cheers,
Brad


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## dalpets (21/12/10)

brad05 said:


> In the hope I might add something useful to this conversation.
> 
> I have a carbonation cap that can force carb a pet bottle. It is good for the odd beer or two and flat softdrink. It would take too long to carb a whole batch.
> 
> ...


Thanks Brad, what you and others have said makes sense.

Cheers
dalpets


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## dalpets (21/12/10)

felten said:


> So let me get this straight, you sent me an abusive pm, put me on ignore straight away so I couldn't respond, then PM'd me twice more calling me out for posting in public, Then Pm'd me a bullshit reason (in which you never said anything about apologizing in fact you made it clear it was "the end of the road for us"). And now you want me to unblock YOU?
> 
> No. The decent thing would have to not be an unreasonable prick in the first place. Saying "I will not go public" is a crock, there was NO private discourse from me at all, it's all been public since I was blocked without a chance to reply, so you can shove that.
> 
> BTW I have you on ignore, so I guess I won't get your response. Good day sir.



Notwithstanding, my offer remains indefinitely.


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