# When did it become so hard to get decent beer and service at a bar?



## verysupple (12/12/14)

The other night I met up with a mate visiting Melbourne from WA. So I thought we'd go somewhere with a decent selection of beers and because he was staying about a block from Cookie we went there. 

They've got a great beer list, but I have to say, for a place that prides themselves on being a beer hall the quality of beer handling seemed to leave a bit to be desired. I figured being such a popular place they'd turn over their stock pretty quickly and that their Weihenstephaner hefe weissbier (possibly my favourite commercial beer) would be nice and fresh (which can be hard to find). Nope, it tasted pretty old and dull so I checked the label and sure enough it was just over a year old. Also, they gave me a Warsteiner pils glass to drink it out of. *Sigh*

After that I had an Erdinger Pikantus which was actually hard to find in the list because it was under "bock" (I mean, yeah, it's a _weizen_bock...) and then the bar tender took forever finding it, also thinking it'd be near the other weizen/weissbiers. This also tasted pretty old. It was a couple of weeks past the best by date on the label, but being a bit bigger wasn't as bad as the Weihenstephaner.

Time to move on. Sacrificing variety for (hopefully) freshness we moved up the street to Father's Office. It doesn't have a very interesting selection of beers but it was close and I've never had a bad beer there. I ordered a JS Stow Away IPA and my mate ordered a JS The Chancer golden ale. The two beers looked suspiciously similar in colour. Sure enough, they were both IPAs. As a Carlton Draught drinker my mate was struggling with it a bit but refused to send it back because "She'll be right".

I know I didn't choose the best venues in town, but when did it become so hard to get a decent beer that's served properly? Or am I just a fussy bugger? Well, either way we still had a good catch up. Maybe it's more important to drink with good people than to drink good beer. Wait, I just realised what I wrote. Blasphemy!


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## NewtownClown (12/12/14)

verysupple said:


> Or am I just a fussy bugger?


 I don't know, but you are painting with a very broad brush. To paraphrase Aristotle, "Two swallows does not a summer make".


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## Moad (12/12/14)

When you pay close to $10 for a beer I think you have the right to be annoyed. If i read this post 3 years ago I would have thought "what a wanker" but now I'm with you!


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## Blind Dog (12/12/14)

NewtownClown said:


> I don't know, but you are painting with a very broad brush. To paraphrase Aristotle, "Two swallows does not a summer make".


Are you sure that was Aristotle? I thought it was Monica Lewinsky?


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## tavas (12/12/14)

Your mate from WA should be used to bad service and paying over $10/pint.


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## verysupple (12/12/14)

NewtownClown said:


> I don't know, but you are painting with a very broad brush. To paraphrase Aristotle, "Two swallows does not a summer make".


True, it's only two bars. But how hard is it to get the right beer and serve it properly? Actually, I know the answer to that because I used to work in bars and restaurants - it's freakin' easy.




tavas said:


> Your mate from WA should be used to bad service and paying over $10/pint.


Ha, yeah, he's used to it but that doesn't make it OK.


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## JDW81 (12/12/14)

It seems to be pretty par for the course VS.

Just because a place has a decent beer list, it doesn't mean that it is fresh or that they know what they are talking about. Even at so call "beer bars" the majority of the bar staff couldn't tell you the difference between an english IPA and an american IPA and all their beers are served at one temperature i.e. frigidly cold.

Beer has certainly come along in leaps and bounds the last few years, but it still has a long way to go before it matches wine in the care that is taken to build knowledge in staff, store and serve appropriately.

JD


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## DJ_L3ThAL (12/12/14)

Do any bars ever serve beers at different temps? Unless they got a fridge and a real ale keg?


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## Ducatiboy stu (12/12/14)

NewtownClown said:


> I don't know, but you are painting with a very broad brush. To paraphrase Aristotle, "Two swallows does not a summer make".


African or European...?


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## GrumpyPaul (12/12/14)

NewtownClown said:


> "Two swallows does not a summer make".


What season is it if she doesn't swallow?


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## Bribie G (12/12/14)

It's not just the beer.
Forster McDonalds the other day:

Two medium McFeast meals please, one of them with a cappuccino and one with a coke Zero.

Was that the McFeast?
yes
Medium meals?
yes
And what was the coffee?
Cappuccino
Cappuccino?
yes
And a coke?
Coke Zero
Coke Zero?
Yes

4 mins later.

Hello, there should be a cappuccino with that
Oh sorry, (goes to coffee machine)
Was that a Cappuccino?
Mate then walks back to the counter
"You didn't give me any fries with that"

Oh sorry... was it a meal?
Yes a McFeast meal.

Probably the same in a lot of pubs, young staff who are forced to endure the horror of several hours when they can't go peck peck peck at the smartphone or see what likes they have on Facebook.


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## Bridges (12/12/14)

GrumpyPaul said:


> What season is it if she doesn't swallow?


 Duck season


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## Dave70 (12/12/14)

GrumpyPaul said:


> What season is it if she doesn't swallow?


Is courtesy tap a season?


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## Florian (12/12/14)

Verysupple, why are you taking your Carlton Draught mate to those places anyway? A bit inconsiderate don't you think? 

Hope you didn't force him to drink anything else than Warsteiner at Cookie or he might never want to come back.


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## spog (12/12/14)

Dave70 said:


> Is courtesy tap a season?


No,but an ear grab is a reason.


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## verysupple (12/12/14)

Florian said:


> Verysupple, why are you taking your Carlton Draught mate to those places anyway? A bit inconsiderate don't you think?
> 
> Hope you didn't force him to drink anything else than Warsteiner at Cookie or he might never want to come back.


I didn't know he was a Carlton drinker when I decided. But he was happy with Boag's Draught. And no, I didn't force anything with flavour on him. I'm quite happy for others to drink megaswill as long as they don't call me a wanker for not drinking it. So we just had a few (and then a few more) and enjoyed a chat.


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## philmud (12/12/14)

Cookie's got a reasonable tap list, Maybe their packaged beer moves slowly. No excuse, but its worth considering when you're at a venue.


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## verysupple (12/12/14)

Prince Imperial said:


> Cookie's got a reasonable tap list, Maybe their packaged beer moves slowly. No excuse, but its worth considering when you're at a venue.


Yeah, good point. It's not exactly obvious when you arrive that there's more than what's on tap. There are a few lists around but you'd have to be looking for one to notice. 

I'll still go back just because they do have such a good selection. But next time I'll be that wanker that asks to see the bottle first. But that's alright cos I'm OK with being _that_ wanker.


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## danestead (12/12/14)

Ive had a bottled beer past its best before date at a craft beer bar here in perth. I think its more common than we think.

do bars possibly grab cartons of beer on special because they are going out of date? Surely you would sell at least a carton of everything you have every few weeks?


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## philmud (12/12/14)

verysupple said:


> Yeah, good point. It's not exactly obvious when you arrive that there's more than what's on tap. There are a few lists around but you'd have to be looking for one to notice.
> 
> I'll still go back just because they do have such a good selection. But next time I'll be that wanker that asks to see the bottle first. But that's alright cos I'm OK with being _that_ wanker.


Absolutely - I check dates in the bottleo, well worth asking if you're paying bar prices!


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## Blind Dog (13/12/14)

I'll apologise in advance but this is a little rant 

If you're paying more than 20c per beer and its shit, complain, make them fix it and don't pay a cent until they get it right. Yes certain people will think you're an arse, but you're probably not going to have sex with them anyway so who cares? 

If you don't, it is entirely your fault that both you and I will continue to get shit beer served to us, which makes me very grumpy. It's not my fault cos if some bugger pours me a shit beer I don't pay for it. So it's all your fault, you bar steward you.


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## dicko (13/12/14)

The problem is that years ago all pubs had a "Cellarman" who was generally a separate identity to the "Publican".
The cellarmans job was to prepare the beer for sale and to ensure that the stock was rotatated so that the beer was as fresh as it could be.
Well that position has been replaced by a "Responsible Person".
Responsible for what....giving change for the poker machine addicts and making sure that some young titter with no training at all when it comes to serving customers (read beer drinkers) does not allow a patron to drink too much.

The publican in most cases these days is just a name above the door....bring back the days when the publican was actually your host if you were in his / her establishment.
The complaint of stale beer, poor or incorrectly served product, etc etc, fall on ears that generally dont give a rats arse what you, the patron, think.
It will only be a handful of pubs in each state that wont come under the conglomerate of corporate ownership and actually be able to serve beer and entertain patrons corteously and efficiently.

Rant now over


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## Spiesy (13/12/14)

Cookie is usually decent, but I almost NEVER order bottled beer when out, especially from a venue that has an impressive array of tap beer. 

Bottled beer I can buy from a bottle-o, for a third of the price. 

Never heard of the second place you went to. Clearly they stuffed your order up, but with Squires ordered, it was never going to end well


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## DJ_L3ThAL (13/12/14)

dicko said:


> The problem is that years ago all pubs had a "Cellarman" who was generally a separate identity to the "Publican".
> The cellarmans job was to prepare the beer for sale and to ensure that the stock was rotatated so that the beer was as fresh as it could be.
> Well that position has been replaced by a "Responsible Person".
> Responsible for what....giving change for the poker machine addicts and making sure that some young titter with no training at all when it comes to serving customers (read beer drinkers) does not allow a patron to drink too much.
> ...


Concur.

I recall trying to complain once though that a pubs beer lines were not cleaned as there was a strong eggy/fart smell coming off the beer. I basically got told politely to **** off and they were cleaned daily so what would I know... I avoid conflict if I can as I get enough at work but it did bother me having to cop that on the chin and has made me now reluctant to speak up again. Servings guessing myself as maybe I don't know what I'm on about lol!


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## droid (13/12/14)

buy a coopers green and ask them to roll it for you before opening it - 80% of people will look at you as if you have two heads
people serving beer especially in specialty type places should know their Schiza but if they are not trained, well...
the flipside is that its soo good when you get a real pro serving your beers but its rare as hell, it should be the other way around

<edit>
we are so obliging if we look at people in other countries, it is a fact that we don't complain enough, I don't but jeez out of date beer is a bit of a stretch innit


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/12/14)

A local pub here is guilty of not looking after their beer lines.

In the end Coopers ordered the local rep to go there and sort the problem out as people where complaining directly to Coopers

Needless to say that the local rep, who I know rather well, did go around and sort them out. Apparently all the did was rinse the lines out with hot water once a week.

Needles to say, I was never able to drink the Pale Ale on tap there as it was terrible and I could not even finish a schooner. I hav heard it is better now, but I still prefer buying bottles


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/12/14)

droid said:


> buy a coopers green and ask them to roll it for you before opening it - 80% of people will look at you as if you have two heads


I actually hate it when they roll it. I ask them not to roll it.....then you get the response " But its supposed to be rolled...thats just how they make it.."....oh FFS....


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## manticle (13/12/14)

I'm with stu. Wouldn't mind if they asked but hate it when it's done automatically.


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## altone (13/12/14)

verysupple said:


> Yeah, good point. It's not exactly obvious when you arrive that there's more than what's on tap. There are a few lists around but you'd have to be looking for one to notice.
> 
> I'll still go back just because they do have such a good selection. But next time I'll be that wanker that asks to see the bottle first. But that's alright cos I'm OK with being _that_ wanker.


Embrace the wanker - at their prices it is your right!



Prince Imperial said:


> Absolutely - I check dates in the bottleo, well worth asking if you're paying bar prices!


Do you know that large alcohol chain with initials D M actually throw out beer once it's past it's best by date?
I didn't until I saw a guy chucking it in the mini skip and asked why.

p.s. The mini skip is in a locked enclosed area to avoid anyone "recovering" it


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## verysupple (15/12/14)

manticle said:


> I'm with stu. Wouldn't mind if they asked but hate it when it's done automatically.


Yeah, me too. Sometimes I feel like having it cloudy and others clear.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/12/14)

There's a place in Brisbane (not saying where) which has a coopers beer line/tap/coupler/whatever which is infected with brett. It's awesome. The last three times I've been there, coopers dark ale the first time, and pale the other two. The coopers pale basically tasted like Orval.


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## peas_and_corn (15/12/14)

Hmm that'll be a good brew to make- coopers pale recipe, cultivate their yeast, then throw some brett in.


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## Liam_snorkel (15/12/14)

last week (not the same place) I had a pint of a stout from a hand pump which smelt/tasted like stale rotten beer, like the pump had beer sitting in it for a week at room temperature and this all ended up in my glass. I nearly puked. Sent it back and got a freshie.


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## Bribie G (15/12/14)

PM me with the name please, we'll be doing a bit of a crawl Tuesday Week (Tidal Pete, RdeV etc) so thanks for the warning about the hand pump. Wouldn't be near erm ..... Milton-ish direction would it?


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## schtev (23/12/14)

boddingtons best said:


> Do you know that large alcohol chain with initials D M actually throw out beer once it's past it's best by date?


Must only be a few stores that do it! The one near me regularly has expired beer on the shelves. Usually imported Euro stuff which I guess doesn't move very quickly. I should complain but haven't felt motivated enough to do it.


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## wide eyed and legless (23/12/14)

I went in the Glen Waverley Dan Murphy bought 4 Haymakers drank 3 and checked the dates,all out of date but tasted not to bad, took the empties back plus the remaining full one,told them I had a couple of mates over as the reason for the 3 empties.
The manager apologised took the remaining out of date beers off the shelf and gave me four fresh ones plus a free bottle of Sail and Anchor's Monkey's Fist, had one mouthful of the Monkey's Fist, went back inside and asked if I could swap it for the out of date Haymaker I had just brought back.


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## Diggs (23/12/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> last week (not the same place) I had a pint of a stout from a hand pump which smelt/tasted like stale rotten beer, like the pump had beer sitting in it for a week at room temperature and this all ended up in my glass. I nearly puked. Sent it back and got a freshie.


Can't Be too many places around in Brissy with a handpump.


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## crowmanz (23/12/14)

droid said:


> buy a coopers green and ask them to roll it for you before opening it - 80% of people will look at you as if you have two heads


Coopers have some bar runners/mats that have a "place here and roll > the length of the mat" with a bit of a blurb about the yeast. I was surprised to see this especially in a pub in Rockhampton (but I guess most the locals need an education).


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## buckerooni (23/12/14)

I got a coopers glass that was a little short of the stubbie,so it would by-design decant the sediment...if you didn't roll it first I guess...I was also a roller due to being told to be a roller, but now I know it's a bunch of yeast, I'm a non-roller.

I'm off the tap, unless the place is manky, then I'm bottling it.

Popped into Hotel Lincoln (Carlton) to try the La Sirene Florette last night, good staff, happy to chat about the beer and a nice place to have a sip.


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## Parks (23/12/14)

I have always been curious about the rolling thing especially with Coopers. It's not the yeast flavour you want it's the flavour produced by that strain of yeast in fermentation.


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## jlm (23/12/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> There's a place in Brisbane (not saying where) which has a coopers beer line/tap/coupler/whatever which is infected with brett. It's awesome. The last three times I've been there, coopers dark ale the first time, and pale the other two. The coopers pale basically tasted like Orval.


Music venue? When I came back to see Poison Idea earlier this year I recall drinking a few infected darks and thinking it wasn't half bad.


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## Liam_snorkel (23/12/14)

jlm said:


> Music venue? When I came back to see Poison Idea earlier this year I recall drinking a few infected darks and thinking it wasn't half bad.


yep! Shhh.


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## BrewedCrudeandBitter (23/12/14)

Shame it's such a woeful venue for music.


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## crowmanz (23/12/14)

Seeing as there are some Brisbane based guys in here I might ask for their fav bar/pub with decent beers for a catch up with mates between Christmas and new year? I was thinking tipplers tap or archive? I went to Newstead Brewing Co when I was down last.


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## Liam_snorkel (24/12/14)

Tipplers are closed for that period, same for tomahawk (reopen New Year's Eve I think).
Archive is very noisy and serve their beers too cold. 
Newstead brewery is pretty good (good food, plenty of taps, brewery bling) but a bit exy. 
I suggest Brisbane Brewhouse. Their beers are generally great, very big bottle list, good pub food/atmosphere.


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## crowmanz (24/12/14)

Damn, was keen on checking out tipplers. I did drive past Brisbane Brewhouse when I was down last but forgot about it. Looks like they do growlers too sweet.


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## BrewedCrudeandBitter (24/12/14)

Yeah the Brewhouse is a great venue. Really good quality tap beer (their Walker American IPA won Gold in this years AIBA) and the cheapest bottled beer in Brisbane.

I've got a soft spot for The Burrow at West End. Great food, a big bottle list and usually some good taps.


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## real_beer (24/12/14)

When did it become so hard to get decent beer and service at a bar?

Boy I think I'm going to get some flack for this first bit ........... I might even get thrown off the site............................ oh well who cares.

1). When women/ladies were given the right to drink in Public Bar's.
2). When the best Bar people (Barmaids, the one's who used to serve the beer in the male only Public Bar and could pour 5 or 6 beers at a time, and dress down the roughest and toughest troublesome truckie, bikie, or tradie look like a fool and behave themselves in front of everyone) lost favour to the globe trotting no benefits too pay *b...a....c...k...p...a...c...k...e...r* . An interesting fact from that time is .............. A lot of people thought all the tiled walls in Public Bars were to make it easy to hose the place out each morning, but the reality was that good barmaids could blister paint off walls with their expletives when roused into action, the best could also make ears bleed.
3). Alan Bond won the America's Cup and then decided to emulate their megaswill and inflict it on the Australian public with his own breweries.
4). As mentioned previously the death of the Cellarman and his cleaning regime.
5). When publicans decided that one person could serve 3 different locations at a time through connecting passages but stand and chat to their boyfriend or girlfriend until a suitable pause arises so they might serve a customer.
6). When Craft Breweries have megaswill on tap and then decide to serve all the lovingly crafted flavoursome creations of their own Brew Master and his team at the same temperature.
7). As above in number 6.
8). As above in numbers 7 & 6.
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]9). As above in numbers 8, 7, & 6.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]10). I think you get my message but also see above in numbers 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 & 1 again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.63636302948px]I'm off to the shops now so it'll be interesting to see if I've been banned for my sexist opinion in comments 1 & 2 when I return.[/SIZE]

:beer:


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## Liam_snorkel (24/12/14)

You wish. I mostly just feel sorry for you, the last of a dying breed.


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## Brew Forky (24/12/14)

Lol, i was just telling my younger friend the other day that the kids used to drink fruit cups in the ladies lounge with the Mum's drinking spumante or similar, while the men went to the front bar. The women weren't allowed in to it, but your dog was welcome.


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## BrewedCrudeandBitter (24/12/14)

Imagine legitimately thinking that having women in a bar has somehow ruined the experience.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/12/14)

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Shame it's such woefulll music for the venue


FTFY


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/12/14)

real_beer said:


> When did it become so hard to get decent beer and service at a bar?
> 
> Boy I think I'm going to get some flack for this first bit ........... I might even get thrown off the site............................ oh well who cares.
> 
> ...


I would say it takes about 12mnths to train a barperson to get to know the bar and its characters...and even thats one with previous experience


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## Brew Forky (24/12/14)

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Imagine legitimately thinking that having women in a bar has somehow ruined the experience.


I think it was more to do with showing respect to women, as a front bar was pretty blokey back in the day.


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## Bomber Watson (24/12/14)

crowmanz said:


> Coopers have some bar runners/mats that have a "place here and roll > the length of the mat" with a bit of a blurb about the yeast. I was surprised to see this especially in a pub in Rockhampton (but I guess most the locals need an education).


Oi 

Which pub?


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## Screwtop (24/12/14)

Exactly the same situation at Rainbow Beach Sports Club. They have a 150 lashes tap that has been pouring sour beer for months. I ask each time if the beer is not popular as it tastes like it has been in the line for a while. "No its popular" is the reply from page one of their book of standard replies


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## HBHB (25/12/14)

Screwtop said:


> Exactly the same situation at Rainbow Beach Sports Club. They have a 150 lashes tap that has been pouring sour beer for months. I ask each time if the beer is not popular as it tastes like it has been in the line for a while. "No its popular" is the reply from page one of their book of standard replies


Palmwoods pub was the same


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## crowmanz (25/12/14)

Bomber Watson said:


> Oi
> 
> Which pub?


 i saw it in the Cri front bar. But was a while ago I haven't been back there since worked moved to the post office end of town.


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## Bomber Watson (25/12/14)

Ah yep, I havnt been there in ages eather, only really hit up East street once a year for the work christmas party.

Cheers.


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## schtev (25/12/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Tipplers are closed for that period, same for tomahawk (reopen New Year's Eve I think).
> Archive is very noisy and serve their beers too cold.
> Newstead brewery is pretty good (good food, plenty of taps, brewery bling) but a bit exy.
> I suggest Brisbane Brewhouse. Their beers are generally great, very big bottle list, good pub food/atmosphere.


Interesting to see the positive comments about the Brewhouse, I've been there a few times and never really enjoyed it. I thought their house beer was a bit average (although the BPA is very good) and I've never had a good meal there. The venue itself is nice though.

Archive is terrible on Friday/Saturday nights and whenever they have live music playing. Middle of the day though it is great though. Their food is fantastic too.

Tipplers is awesome and food is amazing. The venue is a bit of a dank hole but I think that's part of the charm. Tomahawk is a nicer venue with a similar tap list, but I think their food is not nearly as good.

Newstead is a bit more expensive like you say (particularly their food offerings) but their house beer are consistent and generally great.

One place you didn't mention is Green Beacon, just a few blocks from Tipplers/Newstead. Not a huge fan of their beers, they are all over-hopped to my taste.


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## Liam_snorkel (25/12/14)

Hey schtev how long ago was your last Brewhouse visit? I've been in the neighbourhood for about 5 years and they were up and down for a bit, but they got a new brewer (Sim of AHB) and a new head chef who is pretty decent, since then. Just speaking as a regular.


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## madpierre06 (25/12/14)

real_beer said:


> When did it become so hard to get decent beer and service at a bar?
> 
> Boy I think I'm going to get some flack for this first bit ........... I might even get thrown off the site............................ oh well who cares.
> 
> ...


Immediately recalled a lass named Clare who wworked in firstly yhe Courthouse then the Shamrock pubs in Toowoomba in the early to mid 80's when I moved there from the bush. She was exactly as described above. You would walk in on a saturday mornin', by the time you got to the bar she would have either your regular tipple waiting or your seedy tipple (in my case a orange juice and mineral water half/half). Could run the entire bar and you would never be waiting for a beer, a top lass, never needed to resort to expletives but you knew not to push it if she had to. It was usuallt only blow-ins who did get her offside though. She was forgiving of our dickhead moments, understanding, and to me proof that the best barmaids were born, not made. Today, you just have someone who stands behind the bar and hopefully gets your order done correctly. 


Brew Forky said:


> I think it was more to do with showing respect to women, as a front bar was pretty blokey back in the day.



Mate, in those days women were generally well respected if they showed/exhibited a sense of self respect. I recall the Myer centre being built in brissie here (mid/late 80's) and I used to drink at the Treasury just doon the road. A couple of steelies were drinking in tyhe bar with us and a couple yob skinheads (not regulars, the place was a hangout for them on friday nights with the live music but these two were up from Sydney) walked in and gave the barmaid (Jess) some real shit then threw a glass at her when she called 'em on their manners. Less than two minutes later you hd two rumpled heaps on the footpath outside. The steelies made very short work of the dickheads. Jess was a top bird, top barmaid, again only really called someone out in necessary, but had a very definite sense of self respect and as such was respected greatly.


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## schtev (29/12/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Hey schtev how long ago was your last Brewhouse visit? I've been in the neighbourhood for about 5 years and they were up and down for a bit, but they got a new brewer (Sim of AHB) and a new head chef who is pretty decent, since then. Just speaking as a regular.


Last visit would have been over a year ago now. Maybe I should give them another go.


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## crowmanz (29/12/14)

So I ended up going to the scratch in Milton, lefty's in Caxton and the Brisbane brewhouse. I enjoyed scratch, they had a brown sour ale on tap.


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