# All Grain V's Kk



## jdsaint (23/2/07)

whats the difference from KK, to all grain brewing, beside's time? :unsure: 

Is the taste any different?

Would love to try a all grain brew, before getting into the process.

Although some of the definitions are a bit "Over my Head"., I know that KK are just easy As a difference but what about taste?


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## fixa (23/2/07)

whoops. you've opened up a can of worms there!!! Plenty of debate about this topic previously...
AG beers tatse better (note, my opinion), but take anywhere upwards of 4 hours to make a batch, compared to 20mins or so for K+K... You have more variety and options and control in AG...Not limited by the can you can find. Anyway i'm sure there'll be others that chirp in to give advise, so look out! I hadn't heard of AG before last may, and in october i did my first. Don't be confused, it's not as hard as you think.


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## Wortgames (23/2/07)

What's the difference between plunger coffee and Blend 43?

Or between freshly squeezed OJ and reconstituted?

Or between mashed potatoes and Deb?

Or between Granny's pies and Sara Lee?

etc etc etc...

I did one partial mash about 5 years ago and when I took my first sip I decided that I had no choice but to go AG.


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## DJR (23/2/07)

Yup, K&K brewer here for a while, then partials, then leapt headfirst into AG and never looked back.

MUCH fresher beers, no extract twang, much easier to make beers in exactly the style you want (since you control ALL the parameters and ingredients)

Why don't you look into the Fresh Worts, they are about as close as you will get to AG without the expense. That or try somebody's AG beer.


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## jdsaint (23/2/07)

Wortgames said:


> What's the difference between plunger coffee and Blend 43?
> 
> Or between freshly squeezed OJ and reconstituted?
> 
> ...


 

prefer : Blend 43
Mashed Potato
Sarah Lee
Reconstituted Juice
so maybe the odds are for KK! :blink:


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## Fents (23/2/07)

DJR said:


> Yup, K&K brewer here for a while, then partials, then leapt headfirst into AG and never looked back.
> 
> MUCH fresher beers, no extract twang, much easier to make beers in exactly the style you want (since you control ALL the parameters and ingredients)
> 
> Why don't you look into the Fresh Worts, they are about as close as you will get to AG without the expense. That or try somebody's AG beer.



:script:

I agree 100%...


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## therook (23/2/07)

Or like watching a Silky Smooth Melbourne Storm team or a middle of the road St George Team  

rook


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## jdsaint (23/2/07)

DJR said:


> Yup, K&K brewer here for a while, then partials, then leapt headfirst into AG and never looked back.
> 
> MUCH fresher beers, no extract twang, much easier to make beers in exactly the style you want (since you control ALL the parameters and ingredients)
> 
> Why don't you look into the Fresh Worts, they are about as close as you will get to AG without the expense. That or try somebody's AG beer.





HMMMMM Beer- Sounds nice but the only time around me I have heard the term "from scratch" (AG), Is my old man talkin bout his Old mates who brew from scratch who no longer do brew cause age and sickness.

Get this- He started brewing ( my old man) a couple of months after me, he ended up with some west end draught crown seal long necks, from a bloke who brewed years ago, they were full of AG brew, So because they were 8yrs old HE TIPPED THEM OUT!

thought they were no good-


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## jdsaint (23/2/07)

therook said:


> Or like watching a Silky Smooth Melbourne Storm team or a middle of the road St George Team
> 
> rook




:angry: :angry: We WERE RIPPED OFF!
STorm will hurt this year any way Off topic GUS!


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/2/07)

I'm like wortgames in this regard. I did one extract brew and realised that I had very nearly everything I needed to do AG, plus I could indulge in (as someone whose name I forget suggested) 'the romance'.

It's more time consuming than K&K. It is a bit more difficult. There's heaps to learn and argue about. 

But, gee, it's fun. And there is something about the taste...


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## xtrabyte (23/2/07)

Once I tried All Grain, K&K did not taste good anymore. AG takes longer but makes a better beer


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## DJR (23/2/07)

jdsaint said:


> So because they were 8yrs old HE TIPPED THEM OUT!
> 
> thought they were no good-



They probably were after 8 years, but who knows!


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## Blackfish (23/2/07)

I just tasted my first AG last night.
WOW, say it backwards WOW! so different, so much amarillo goodness! and no canned *twang*

and aside from the taste, I have a lot of fun just doing it, and double that fun drinking while doing it .
Saturday arvo in the shed, cricket on the radio, enjoying a brew, recirculating the sparge... quality times I tell you! :beer:


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## Cortez The Killer (23/2/07)

I tried my first AG last weekend and it was sooo much different to any of my kits - i not saying that my kits were bad or anything but the AG was in a league of its own.

It was sooo smooth, increadibly smooth, I couldn't quite get over how smooth it was  

It is definitely worth the extra time and effort.

Only problem is that I'd stocked up on some kits before deciding to go all grain - and now I don't have any intention of putting them down

I've got 
2 x Malt Shovel Outmeal Stouts
2 x Coopers Bavarian Lager
1 x Coopers Bitter
1 x Coopers Canadian Blonde
1 x Morgans Extra Pale Malt Extract

All very within best before dates 

Does anyone reckon they have any resale value? I've been looking for an aspiring brewer locally but haven't stumbled on anyone to off load the tins to.

Cheers


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## SpillsMostOfIt (23/2/07)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I tried my first AG last weekend and it was sooo much different to any of my kits - i not saying that my kits were bad or anything but the AG was in a league of its own.
> 
> It was sooo smooth, increadibly smooth, I couldn't quite get over how smooth it was
> 
> ...




You could make up one/some of them for visitors with no appreciation of the AG beers...


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## DarkFaerytale (23/2/07)

keep them for when your busy and don't have enough time for an AG brew


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## geoffi (23/2/07)

AG tastes much better.

Simple as that.

KK can be drinkable, but never as good.

Try a few partials and you will start to see the difference.

No grain, no gain.


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## geoffi (23/2/07)

If time is a consideration, I will use a wort kit.

But never again a can, certainly not just KK.

I'd rather fork out the extra, either in time or money, and get something superb than something just "drinkable".


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## Mr Bond (23/2/07)

Control of mouthfeel/body(from mash temps),Flava and colour(from base grains and specialties)
And hop character aroma from 60 +minutes boil ,make it far better and worth the effort.
_*It's real beer flat out.*_


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## KillerRx4 (23/2/07)

Cortez, You could brew somthing big & throw a canned kit in at the start of the boil. 

I did on my 3rd or so AG when i wanted to brew & only had 3kg base malt on hand... 3kg pils malt, 1 can coopers PA kit, 1kg table sugar & bit of dark specialty grains + 3787 yeast, turned out a nice strong dark belgian.


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## jdsaint (24/2/07)

Hmmmm maybe I will have to try AG and never look back:
\ what do I need to start this?


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## lucas (24/2/07)

jdsaint said:


> Hmmmm maybe I will have to try AG and never look back:
> \ what do I need to start this?


the simplest way to get started would be BIAB


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## tangent (24/2/07)

depends on how resourceful you are
some people have no problems making a tun and buying a false bottom. Buy a big pot.
I showed one bloke my set-up, about a week later he e-mails me photos of his set-up, and a damn fine job he's done. He even made a roller mill!
BIAB is a novel alternative, but it seems more hassle and more confusing than "normal" AG brewing, to me anyway.


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## jdsaint (24/2/07)

any links to pics? off all grain brewing?


Their are some good KK recipes is'nt their?

to keep me going for 3 months with Kk as I study the art of AG


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## Mr Bond (24/2/07)

jdsaint said:


> any links to pics? off all grain brewing?



I found this link helpful


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## berapnopod (24/2/07)

jdsaint,
You can take the advice that everyone else has given you here, or you can find out for yourself.

What I suggest you do is hook up with some local all grain brewers and try some of their wares and you can decide for youself whether or not its worth the extra hours of effort.

It appears you're in Newcastle, so there should be quite a few all grainers in your area.

Any locals willing to help this fledgling?  

Berp.


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## jdsaint (24/2/07)

berapnopod said:


> jdsaint,
> You can take the advice that everyone else has given you here, or you can find out for yourself.
> 
> What I suggest you do is hook up with some local all grain brewers and try some of their wares and you can decide for youself whether or not its worth the extra hours of effort.
> ...



I have tried to find brewers in newcastle on this forum before (like a club or meetings) with no response.....
think I need to move to sydney or queensland


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## Mr Bond (24/2/07)

jdsaint said:


> I have tried to find brewers in newcastle on this forum before (like a club or meetings) with no response.....
> think I need to move to sydney or queensland



PM, MHB, or weizguy


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## Thirsty Boy (24/2/07)

Interesting thread this. Just pondering. We have heard from plenty of people saying "go AG, you'll never go back" and I'm in that camp too... but is there anyone who has gone back?

Are you or do you know of anyone who went AG and then thought "screw it, its not that much better and too much trouble, I'm back to K&K" ?

If there isn't anyone who has switched back, then that paints the picture much more vividly than testimonials, and if there is, well, that adds some balance to the story at any rate.

PS. I do recommend BIAB as a really simple and easy way to get into AG. It has its limits, but you will get to experience AG for the absolute bare minimum financial and time outlay. You will get to taste the difference; and if you decide you want to move on to a more traditional AG setup, everything you have bought will find a use in your new set-up and you will have wasted zero dollars.

Thirsty


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## BoilerBoy (24/2/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Interesting thread this. Just pondering. We have heard from plenty of people saying "go AG, you'll never go back" and I'm in that camp too... but is there anyone who has gone back?
> 
> Are you or do you know of anyone who went AG and then thought "screw it, its not that much better and too much trouble, I'm back to K&K" ?
> 
> If there isn't anyone who has switched back, then that paints the picture much more vividly than testimonials, and if there is, well, that adds some balance to the story at any rate.




I remember for the first time finding out about mashing and how intinidated I felt.
I'd been brewing only for only 6 weeks or so and the thought of that amount of effort and equipment,with mills, temp guages, burners, hop calcs etc was overwhelming. 

To the uninitiated it often just doesn't seem justfiable until you taste it and then unfolds the dilemma!
You started with K&K like most in the hope of cloning your favourite commercial beer, but it just didn't quite cut it. Now you find you can get much closer if not better, but the big decision has to be made!

If you really love the taste of beer the darkside beckons and there is really no choice, but the best thing to do is to watch it being done.

I dont know of any All grainers who have gone back to K&K, however, I know K&K people who would give up brewing alltogether rather than entertain the idea of AG. " too much work'!

I myself could never go back to K$K, possibly only wort kits as an option.
If you love lagers for example its just about impossible to replicate that style with kits 

I think I'd have to revert back to the old days of a scotch diet

Cheers
BB


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## Wortgames (24/2/07)

I think there has to be a bit of an attitude shift in order to embrace AG brewing. Remember that most people probably first get into brewing in order to save money. Initially it is a bit of a chore, involving a lot of cleaning and worrying about temperature etc.

From that a lot of brewers (but by no means all) progress to taking a real pride in their beer, and 'money-saving' gives way to 'beer-quality' - they start to voluntarily invest extra time and money into making a better brew, and actually get some entertainment value out of the brewing process.

All-grain is just another progression - if you don't care too much about your beer or the brewing process then you'll never bother, but if you have been bitten by the brewing bug, and you find yourself obsessed with brewing better beer - as well as getting a kick out of sourcing / designing / building / owning / using the associated gadgetry - then its a natural progression.

If you are really into good beer, and you taste a good, fresh AG brew, you'll know instantly that it is in a totally different league to a reconstituted kit!


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## jdsaint (24/2/07)

I'd like to supplie the suburb and win a contract to do that AG is the go  :beer:


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## braufrau (24/2/07)

lucas said:


> the simplest way to get started would be BIAB




But even with BIAB you still need a serious burner don't you?

I have a 21l pot, I can make bag in 10mins, but I'd never get a whole volume boil going on my stove!

 

-braufrau


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## goatherder (24/2/07)

Don't be scared of the burner - a 3 ring will cost you $30-$40 bucks if you shop around and is good to boil 20-40 litres. Heaps of AGers use 3 rings (myself included) and they are more than adequate. Finding a large enough pot might be a greater challenge. If you are handy with an angle grinder and can use your imagination then this isn't such a problem.


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## braufrau (24/2/07)

goatherder said:


> Don't be scared of the burner - a 3 ring will cost you $30-$40 bucks if you shop around and is good to boil 20-40 litres. Heaps of AGers use 3 rings (myself included) and they are more than adequate. Finding a large enough pot might be a greater challenge. If you are handy with an angle grinder and can use your imagination then this isn't such a problem.




Hmmm ... I have a big pot ... 21l but the other issue, which just occured to me is
manhandling 21kg of wort. As it is, once I have the fermenter full, I wait for my husband
to come home and move it out of the kitchen and on bottling day, he puts it on the bench for me.

I guess I'd be limited to brewing when he's around or spend more time lifting weights!

 

-braufrau


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## browndog (24/2/07)

braufrau said:


> Hmmm ... I have a big pot ... 21l but the other issue, which just occured to me is
> manhandling 21kg of wort. As it is, once I have the fermenter full, I wait for my husband
> to come home and move it out of the kitchen and on bottling day, he puts it on the bench for me.
> 
> ...



Braufrau, gravity is your friend. All you have to do is make stands out of what ever you can get your hands on so that all the heavy lifting is done at the beginning of the process (filling the hot liqueur tank) then letting gravity do all the work. It is known as a three tier set up if you want to google it. 

cheers

Browndog


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## Thirsty Boy (24/2/07)

Yep, sorry braufrau, if you are planning on doing standard(ish) 23 litre batches, then you are going to need at least a 35litre pot. Even BIAB isn't going to get past that. 

Better if you put a tap into it, but you can always siphon. As browndog said, gravity is your friend, no need to be lugging around big pots full of boiling sugar water, thats just asking for trouble even if you have help.

Besides you dont want to pour everything into the fermetor (or no chill cube) when you do AG. A tap or siphon allows you to be more discriminating about what you leave behind in the kettle.

Of course, you could do smaller batches, I can squeeze a 12 ltre batch out of my 16litre pot when i am doing experimental small runs.

Where you at? If its Melbourne, I would be happy to invite you and your husband around one time when I brew so you can see the process, or at least my muddling version of it. Or go to the Grain and Grape AG demo last saturday of the month (february's was today)

PM me if I can help.

Sorry jdsaint, Newcastle is a bit far away for offers of personal help  although I did teach one of my best mates to AG (BIAB) on new years day in Newcastle. He a bloody addict now and give him another six months and he will have brewed more batches than me!!

Thirsty



edited for speelink twice


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## Weizguy (25/2/07)

jdsaint,

Pls gimme a pm. I'm surprised that no-one in Newcastle has offered to help you out. I prob saw the post, but I'm approx 50 min to an hour away from Windale. So, I thought that someone closer might be able to help out. I'm here 4 U.

My equipment may be a bit clunky and time-consuming, but will give you an idea of the process. I probably, no definitely, haven't done as many ag beers as my peers, but have been known to make some good beer, and have a few awards to my name.

After I'd won a few prizes with my kit/extract beers, then progressed to only a few partial mash beers I couldn't see much benefit/ increase in quality. I made an ag Oktoberfest and cold-brewed and lagered and it wasn't much different to my extract beer quality (which means to me that my extract beers were good - they certainly tasted good to me). I went back to extract based beers as I was getting nice crinkable beer. Anyway, I got a lot of encouragement from Mark and Keith at the lhbs, and a woman at work asked me to brew a London Pride (LP) clone for her, so I started ag for the second time. This time the habit stuck. I just had to use up the remainder of the 25 kg box of Muntons DME that I had bought. I did that with a few more partial mash beers.

The first LP clone...; it was infected, but I refused to be beaten. I came back for a second go, and did OK for only my second attempt at a mashed grain beer.
I have brewed some weird beers, which are mostly documented here on the AHB forum.

I've still only made about 20 ag beers, but the quality, and hence drinkability, is improving out-of-sight.

I'd recommend that you talk to the guys at Mark's Home Brew, which is where I shop for most of my ingredients. This post is not about talking you into shopping there, just to give you a jumping-off point to get in touch with other brewers. You might even find someone close to you who is willing and available to demonstrate their equipment and technique.

My main reason for going to grain-brewing is that I can produce styles which aren't achievable with extract or Kit cans. Oh, and liquid yeasts are necessary to emulate a lot of styles correctly. I think you'll find that "if you can think it, you can drink it".

Beerz
Seth out


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## Maxt (25/2/07)

braufrau said:


> But even with BIAB you still need a serious burner don't you?
> 
> I have a 21l pot, I can make bag in 10mins, but I'd never get a whole volume boil going on my stove!
> 
> ...




I did BIAB on my gas stove. Rolling boil from mash temps, 25mins. Not much more than my 2 2400 immersion elements.
I did have a big pot, although you could do small batches and add them together in the fermenter later.
BTW, the wife does not have any sense of humour about malt boilovers in the kitchen!


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## jdsaint (25/2/07)

I shop at MHB "great shop" great advice! Maybe I will see soe of you their 1 day....
I will be their wensday 28th at opening 10am fot KK and some coloured caps...anyone from newy going their then?


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## braufrau (25/2/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Better if you put a tap into it, but you can always siphon. As browndog said, gravity is your friend, no need to be lugging around big pots full of boiling sugar water, thats just asking for trouble even if you have help.



I looked at the setup drawn in how to brew. That makes sense but I'd need a burner, big pot and a chiller
(at the moment I chill the wort in the bath). 
I think AG is a long way away now. I'd really need some strong incentive, a really strong, tangible
demonstration that AG is much superior to a partial.



Thirsty Boy said:


> Besides you dont want to pour everything into the fermetor (or no chill cube) when you do AG. A tap or siphon allows you to be more discriminating about what you leave behind in the kettle.


Does that apply to partials too? Or can you get by with a colander and whirlfloc?



Thirsty Boy said:


> Where you at? If its Melbourne, I would be happy to invite you and your husband around one time when I brew so you can see the process, or at least my muddling version of it. Or go to the Grain and Grape AG demo last saturday of the month (february's was today)


That's very kind of you but I'm in Adelaide. I think the Jovial Monk might do demos, I'll have
to check it out.

thanks for all the help.

-braufrau


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## Zizzle (28/2/07)

I'd recommend you deplete your stocks of K&K before trying your first AG.

After my first half-batch BIAB AG done on my stove top with a cheap $20 pot, my K&K stuff tasted very ordinary and is still sitting there. With AG you actually get to see what hops should taste like.

Seeing AG done in person takes the mystery and scariness out of it. Get a demo, preferrably with someone not much past your own level (gurus can be over the top).

It's also a slippery slope. Lots of toys & gadgets to build, collect and learn about.

I went from being depressed by the lack of variety in Kits (all the manufactures seem to do the same range of boring styles) to being overwhelmed by the choices and variables.


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## pint of lager (28/2/07)

> Seeing AG done in person takes the mystery and scariness out of it. Get a demo, preferrably with someone not much past your own level (gurus can be over the top).



If you see a demo done by someone that is not much past your level, you risk picking up bad information. It can be frustrating tracking down problems caused by unintended bad information.

If you see a demo run by a guru, as Zizzle pointed out, they can overload you with information.

A brewshop is a great way as they have probably run plenty of demos.

There is a huge amount of information on the web including videos of how to mash. Do a few partials to get a handle on the process then if you are still keen, you will be ready for ag.

Kit and kilo, tricked up kit or AG, brew the best beer you can with your knowledge, ingredients and skills.


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## tangent (28/2/07)

> 'd recommend you deplete your stocks of K&K before trying your first AG.
> 
> After my first half-batch BIAB AG done on my stove top with a cheap $20 pot, my K&K stuff tasted very ordinary and is still sitting there.


 I just loaded 6 boxes of extract brews for some alcho to pick up and another 3 boxes into the bin.



> Seeing AG done in person takes the mystery and scariness out of it.


Couldn't agree more! Reading it here can sound like building a home nuclear reactor. Watching someone do a simple single infusion mash really does make more sense.
Make porridge, drain porridge, boil stuff with hops.


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/2/07)

tangent said:


> Make porridge, drain porridge, boil stuff with hops.



That really made me laugh...for a good reason!  

Aside from fiddling with temperature & recirculating wort (don't worry, there's nothing to it), it really is that simple and had me scared off for ages due to the complicated sounding terms and so on. 

AG brewing is sooo cheap to get into it's not funny...I can't believe I'm still using an inherited mash tun, they are so cheap to make anyway, and aside from the heat source everything else can be had for next to nothing. 

There was a somewhat recent thread about electric boiling and it seems to be cheaper...I've found it to be safe and convenient also  

Oh, and to answer the earlier question about going "back to K&K"...I already mentioned that I still do kits (very fiddled though I suppose) and AG...does that count? h34r: 

Blah, blah...can you tell I'm off chops? :lol: 

PZ.


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## tangent (28/2/07)

When I see questions like AG vs K&K, the only thing I can think of is analogy.

Cheap frozen Pizzas. Nothing wrong with them.
Quick, easy, great when you're pissed if you can remember they're in the oven.
Now if you've never tasted the real deal, you'd say it was the breakfast of champions, bettered by none. I still eat frozen pizzas all the time.

Some people even think themselves real gourmets by adding some extra cheese and chilli.

But then some weirdos out there get a bag of flour and start making the crust by hand, taking hour upon hour, maybe even buying an expensive pizza oven to bake it in just perfectly.

Now if you've never tasted a real pizza, how can you tell me that your topped up frozen pizza is the be all and end all?

You can add a lippy to a blow-up doll, but that aint no woman brutha


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/2/07)

tangent said:


> Quick, easy, great when you're pissed if you can remember they're in the oven.



More goldkeep it coming! :lol: 

Yep, I can't even try to remember how frozen pizzas I've cremated after passing out before they were done  

PZ.


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## randyrob (28/2/07)

tangent said:


> You can add a lippy to a blow-up doll, but that aint no woman brutha



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

i'm lovin this thread

i knew if i hanged around long enough someone would ask.


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## PistolPatch (28/2/07)

tangent said:


> BIAB is a novel alternative, but it seems more hassle and more confusing than "normal" AG brewing, to me anyway.


My goodness, you naughty boy Tangent!!! You haven't read the BIAB Guide have you! BIAB is heaps easier to understand than traditional when you're starting out. I especially know as I've done both. Beer's good too - just ask the boys who had Phrak's no-chilled BIAB last night in Sydney.

Now I reckon you should have written what you wrote previously on this topic about 18 months ago which was one of the funniest yet truest things I've read here...



> You can try to make a woman out of rubber, but in the end of the day, you'll always have a blow-up doll, not the real thing, and no matter how much lippy you apply, it's always going to pale in comparison to the real thing. No matter what brand it is.



LOL

I will have a much easier BIAB Guide done up in a few weeks but I still think the current one is a pretty easy read. Just don't read the 350 posts afterwards 

jdsaint: Like the guys say, try and see a brew done live. It's the easiest way to getting your head around it. If that option is not available to you, have a read of the .pdf in the first post of A Guide to All-Grain Brewing in a Bag Don't read the rest of the thread for now. Reading too many things was a big mistake I made - very confusing.

Look forward to hearing how you go,
Pat


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## Fingerlickin_B (28/2/07)

wally said:


> In a couple of weeks I hope to do *my first AG*.





wally said:


> I just couldn't believe the taste difference when I tried *my first AG*.



This wording is misleading :blink:

I figure you mean "when I first tasted an AG"...as I can't see how you would taste your first AG before you even produced your first AG...unless you have a time machine of some sort? :beer: 

PZ.


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## tangent (28/2/07)

Pat, you're a legend and your effort will never go unnoticed,
but I don't see my move to AG difficult enough to warrant putting any more steps in the way.

Maybe because my swimming teacher didn't let me stay in the shallow end for too long, then she chucked me in the deep end. I sank for a bit, then I swam. No hesitating at that big black line...


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## PistolPatch (28/2/07)

LOL Tangent! I think you're the legend. I still remember you looking after me here in my early days on the forum (not too long ago).

I'm no longer seeing BIAB as a step to AG. After doing both traditional and batch, I'm very happy with the results of BIAB and so have no intention of going back to traditional. Also, on the limited tests we've done, no one so far seems to be able to find a difference in the beer.

The advantage of BIAB is that you don't need a knowledge of sparging so it removes a huge 'understanding' and actual step in the AG brewing method - that being sparging.

Dunno if I wrote it in this thread, but in hindsight I reckon *Fresh Wort Kits* would be a very sensible step before any sort of AG for the K&Ker. I received this advice from Jagungal early and really regret not acting on it. Instead, while gathering my equipment together, I persisted with kits and therefore kept tasting the old 'twang'. Agh!

I've got to start remembering to recommend Fresh Wort Kits for those in between. The beer I've had from these has been very good.

Spot ya,
Pat


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## Zizzle (1/3/07)

tangent said:


> But then some weirdos out there get a bag of flour and start making the crust by hand, taking hour upon hour,



I get the GF to do that part... does that make me less weird?  

Anyway, back on topic: another analogy I like using is tinned peas vs garden fresh peas.


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## tangent (1/3/07)

I was going to use PeeWee50s & Ducatis 

"The advantage of BIAB is that you don't need a knowledge of sparging so it removes a huge 'understanding' and actual step in the AG brewing method - that being sparging." Jaysus Pat, it's washing the grain! Mystery solved.


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## Wardhog (1/3/07)

I made an extract APA that I thought was very good. I still had some bottles of it left when I brewed an AG version of the same thing (my first AG).
I had one of each straight after the other, and the difference is astounding. I only drank the rest of the extract brew because I finished the AG one, otherwise they would've just sat there until I gave them away.

You're probably used to the humouring-you, "Yeah, I'll try one of your homebrews, thanks for that but I'll go back to VB now"-said-with-rolled-eyes encounters with mates. 
Once I started giving them AG brews, the eyebrows raise and "Do you have any more?" is the question asked.

Extract and kit brews CAN be good beers, but AG takes it to a whole new level.


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## Fents (1/3/07)

Pat i hate to say it but when i first came on here and you gave me all the BIAB info i sat around scratching my head all confused....

But when i read this PDF, I understood AG from the get go.

The simplest way i had it explained to me...

1. Mash the grains = Soak the grains in 66c water for 1 hour

2. Sparge = Drain the liquid from the soaked grains into a big pot, refill the tun / bucket with water at 78c let the 78c water Rinse the suguar off the grains then drain it again

3. Boil all this liquid for 1 hour adding hops at desired intervals.

4. Cool down the boiled liquid to yeast pitching temp and strain into fermenter.

SIMPLE! 

View attachment AUSSIE_HOMEBREWER_GUIDE_6.pdf


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## jdsaint (1/3/07)

You can add a lippy to a blow-up doll, but that aint no woman brutha 
[/quote]

You have not tried this have you?
Cause we can steer you in the right direction? :lol: :lol:  

Just bluffen


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## winkle (1/3/07)

tangent said:


> You can add a lippy to a blow-up doll, but that aint no woman brutha



OTOH put some lippy on a inflatable sheep  .....


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## DrewCarey82 (1/3/07)

Cortez The Killer said:


> I tried my first AG last weekend and it was sooo much different to any of my kits - i not saying that my kits were bad or anything but the AG was in a league of its own.
> 
> It was sooo smooth, increadibly smooth, I couldn't quite get over how smooth it was
> 
> ...



You'd be lucky to get $3-4 a can.... But you may get someone gullible who might pay more.


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## tangent (1/3/07)

Whenever I buy a new fermenter, I get a free can of goo. No matter how much I haggle, I can't get them to drop the price just for the fermenter.
So I give the cans of goo away as presents.
There's always someone out there just starting out who appreciates free stuff.


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## DrewCarey82 (1/3/07)

Zizzle said:


> I'd recommend you deplete your stocks of K&K before trying your first AG.
> 
> After my first half-batch BIAB AG done on my stove top with a cheap $20 pot, my K&K stuff tasted very ordinary and is still sitting there. With AG you actually get to see what hops should taste like.
> 
> ...



Completely agree was into AG while I still had a 150 longies of K&K some werent too bad admittedly but others that were quaffers of average quality that I didnt mind when I was drinking kit beers but after tasting the almighty beer were nothing short of terrible.

Had the last 2 longnecks of K&K last night and thankgod I am free.

Some can make ok even good beers but your run of the mill k&k beers are very poor.


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## lucas (1/3/07)

DrewCarey82 said:


> You'd be lucky to get $3-4 a can.... But you may get someone gullible who might pay more.


not having a dig at you DC, but anyone who doesnt believe AG makes better beers should go have a look for some of your old posts. to change someones opinion from "kits can make just as good a beer as AG" to "pfft... you'd have to be gullible to waste money on kits" lends a lot of weight to the fact that there's something magic about AG


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## Cortez The Killer (1/3/07)

The cans have been sold  

Cheers


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## Steve Lacey (1/3/07)

lucas said:


> ... DC, ... anyone who doesnt believe AG makes better beers should go have a look for some of your old posts.



Ha ha .. yeah, I haven't seen any posts from DC for a while so when I read that one just now I wondered if the old DC had died and someone had cybersquatted his handle. What a transformation. 

It's all good! :beer:


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## DJR (1/3/07)

Steve Lacey said:


> Ha ha .. yeah, I haven't seen any posts from DC for a while so when I read that one just now I wondered if the old DC had died and someone had cybersquatted his handle. What a transformation.
> 
> It's all good! :beer:



Heh once he tried a few of the ISB'ers brews and had a go himself he saw the light!

In the words of Seth, "Testify!"


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## tarlox (1/3/07)

Call me Gullible


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## DrewCarey82 (1/3/07)

lucas said:


> not having a dig at you DC, but anyone who doesnt believe AG makes better beers should go have a look for some of your old posts. to change someones opinion from "kits can make just as good a beer as AG" to "pfft... you'd have to be gullible to waste money on kits" lends a lot of weight to the fact that there's something magic about AG



I am not saying that you'd be wasting money on kits, some of them make quite good beers actually I am just saying that for these kits you can get them for $8 on special @ big W, so you'd be lucky to get half of that from someone buying them especially if they are buying them in bulk. Wasnt in regards to the quality it was in regards to the price.

And yeah I used to be a huge advocate of the K&K movement however since moving to AG beers I've totally retracted my previous oppinions on many occassions.

But the main point I always make is you should drink what your doing if your happy with K&K stick with K&K.

Magic about AG? You'd better f'n believe it! Its like a dance in your mouth


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## devo (1/3/07)

Wortgames said:


> What's the difference between plunger coffee and Blend 43?
> 
> Or between freshly squeezed OJ and reconstituted?
> 
> ...



couldn't agree more B)


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## warrenlw63 (1/3/07)

devo said:


> couldn't agree more B)



Dunno about that... My granny made a pretty shit pie. :lol: 

Warren -


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## Cortez The Killer (1/3/07)

I did a head count of my beer in the cupboard and worked out there is about 80 litres of kit beer in there.

I've decided to slow down production so I can clear some room for all the AG batches I've got planned.

It's gonna be a tough job clearing out that cupboard - but some one has to do it.  

Cheers


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## jdsaint (1/3/07)

jdsaint said:


> prefer : Blend 43
> Mashed Potato
> Sarah Lee
> Reconstituted Juice
> so maybe the odds are for KK! :blink:



hence the response!


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## Boozy the clown (2/3/07)

Biggest difference? Time and effort.

(oh yes, maybe taste but i've never had the time to make one.)


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## browndog (2/3/07)

jdsaint said:


> hence the response!



JD, wait till you hook up with the Newcastle boys and try a few of their AGs mate, then you will see what real beer is supposed to taste like. And by the way *Go the might Dragons in 07*

cheers

Browndog


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## jdsaint (3/3/07)

I look forward to it!  But for know, KK's AND rum!


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