# Looking For A Lager/pilsner Extract Recipe



## dj1984 (7/1/09)

hi im looking for a recipe for a extract lager/pilsner cheers


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## Philthy79 (7/1/09)

dj1984 said:


> hi im looking for a recipe for a extract lager/pilsner cheers



Hey DJ.....

1 Coopers Lager tin
Saflager Yeast
4 x Czech Saaz Hop Plugs
500gm Dex, 250gm Dried Corn syrup, 250gm Dried Malt (Beer Boost @ my LHBS)
150gm grains (LHBS Beer Ultra)

Steep grains 20 mins. 2 plugs @ 30mins, 2 @ flameout ....add to simmering sugars, then into fermenter with goo, bring down to 15deg, add yeast, keep between 12 -15 degrees......

Im a newb, but this goes down well for me mates......


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## Bribie G (7/1/09)

Coopers lager original series makes a good base goo provided, as previous poster does:

Don't use a kilo of sugar, at least use a 'brew improver' LHBS or BE2 from Coopers
Chuck the kit yeast and use something better. Using a Saflager you will need to ferment cool, i.e. under 16 degrees
Add some extra hops.

For the hops boil for about 15 mins in water that has had some of the kit goo added to it, this improves hop extraction.

For a more bitter lager German Style try boiling about 20g Tettnang pellets instead of the Saaz.


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## Rodolphe01 (7/1/09)

I'm a newb too... on the weekend I put down:

Morgan's Golden Saaz Pilsener + 1.5kg light dry malt extract + 250g carapils + saaz

steeped grain and boiled etc

boiled 15g saaz for 15 minutes (will dry hop in secondary with additional 20g)

used wyeast 2124

fermenting away nicely at 11 degrees

it's a recipe, don't know if it is good though!


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## buttersd70 (7/1/09)

rudi
the only real issue I can see with this is that I don't think 15g/15min of sazz would introduce enough extra bitterness to counteract the amount of malt that was added, so it may end up too sweet. Depends on how hoppy the tin is to begin with, though.

Have a taste of the sample at the end of primary, and if it's ok, dry hop as planned. If it's too sweet, put up a post, cos there are ways and means around it.


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## Bribie G (7/1/09)

I've used Morgans tins and the couple of lager style ones, early on in the piece, I added just a hop teabag and they turned out good despite using quite a whack of LMDE. Morgans seem to be better hopped than Coopers (a reason why I use Coopers Lager as a good cheap base goop because I know there's not a lot of hop in there to start off with).


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## unterberg (7/1/09)

I have made a really good lager with the following:
1 can of coopers bavarian lager (has been replaced with the European lager but not sure if that is really the same...)
1 can of brewcraft munich lager
Saflager s23

All together to 26l - fermented at 15 deg

as simple as that 

Obviously very strong hops taste in the start (I like that) but after 2 months in the bottle a very smooth and tasty drop.


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## buttersd70 (7/1/09)

BribieG said:


> Morgans seem to be better hopped than Coopers



I thought that might be the case....hence the liberal peppering of 'if' and 'depends' in my post. It may well end up fine.  I make the assumption (and it's only an assumption) that the Morgans stuff is hoppier because its designed to be mixed (bog standard) with their 1kg Brewmaster range, wheras most other kits (including coopers) are designed to go with BE or various other boosters that are generally around the 250g mark on the malt.


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## dj1984 (7/1/09)

im tryin to stay away from tins that have been hopped already and just using malt extract and my own hops with some grain anyone got anything for this


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## buttersd70 (7/1/09)

dj1984 said:


> im tryin to stay away from tins that have been hopped already and just using malt extract and my own hops with some grain anyone got anything for this



I notice theres none in the DB.....shame. Theres not a lot in the beersmith sample recipes either. With nothing else on offer, there was a tasty AG at the sa case swap from Boston, that was just 100% pils malt, which should be fairly easy to replicate as an extract

23L
1048OG/1012 fg
2x1.5L lme 
250g carapils, steeped (none in the original, but just to freshen it up and help with the head  )
0.25kg ldme

40g (1.8g/L) saaz @20 min
southern cross flowers @60min to bring to 28IBU (total) - actual amount will depend on BG, which depends on pot size and how much of the extract is going in the boil.  
wy 2278 czech pilsner

ferment 12c 4 weeks.


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

cheers mate thats what i was after


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

No worries, mate. I think if you just keep it simple, and balanced, you can't go far wrong. The main issue as I see it with this one is keeping close to the ratio of bitterness to gravity, and keeping close to the weight/volume of the saaz on the flavour addition. Imho, these two things were bang on in the original. I'm not a big fan of lagers, and not a big fan of saaz....but this particular one flicked my switch. 

Maybe even stretch it to a partial? (he asks him knowingly. Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more.  )


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

i dont know if im up to it yet no esky for mashing what grain would you use for a partial and how much


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

Pils. In this case, would go with Weyerman, thats what the original uses. You could replace one of the 1.5kg cans with 2.25kg of pils malt. mash all the grain together in a stockpot with 7.5L of water (would need a 10L or bigger pot). add water at around 77C, adjust if needed to 66-67C. Hold for 60 min. Strain, add 5L of water for a sparge, and bring up to 77C, hold for 10 minutes, and strain. Voila. Then you just take a grav of the liquor to check your hopping, and boil.... (edit. If going to a partial with close to 50% of the fermentable from Pils malt, you could probably dump the carapils)

For doing it in a pot, you could put it in a warm, switched off oven that is close-ish to the 60-70C range, just to prevent it from dropping too much, or put the pot in an unconverted esky if you have one. Or put the lid on the pot and wrap it in a sleeping bag, and just put it on the heat (without the bag of course) for short bursts (whilst stirring) to keep it at temperature. Lots of different methods. But basically, a small mash is little different to a steep of specialties....it's just crushed more consistantly, taken to a slightly more precise temp, and held for longer. Thats it. Nowhere near as daunting as it seems.  

If you feel your not ready, thats fine. But it will give you something to think about for future. And from there, it's a slippery slope.... :lol:


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

i think im gonna go for it waiting for SWMBO to get home too get the all clear


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

just a question how do you find out how much hops you need too make it up to 28IBU's im using a 16L pot 2.25 of pils malt 1 tin malt extract


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

hehehe. Another one bites the dust. Great is the lure of the dark side. B)


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

the recipe called for 25 grams but that is all grain is it any different if im only doing a partial


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

dj1984 said:


> the recipe called for 25 grams but that is all grain is it any different if im only doing a partial



I take it you mean for the southern cross....yes, it will be different, because in an AG beer, the boil volume is > than the volume going to fermenter, it reduces down and concentrates. So the BG will be different. And the original recipe is for 50L  

The bittering will specifically depend on the actual boil gravity, which will depend on the efficiency of the mash...so what you will need to do is take a sample of the boil, cool it quickly in the freezer, and take a grav reading to be sure.

Then, using the gravity of the boil, and the volume of the entire batch, enter the hop schedule in a calculator such as here. Unfortunately it is in yank weights, just convert using google. Or search for other calculators. If the boil gravity is only a couple of points under/over, its not going to make a lot of difference. If it's more, it will. *

Easiest *thing to do, though, would be to download a trial version of beersmith, and enter the recipe there. It has a 21 day trial, so if you do your brew within this time, you can adjust the specific hop weight 'on the fly', once your actual boil gravity is known. And it so happens that I've been working out the details in beersmith, so I could post up the recipe file so you wouldn't even have to type it in. :lol: 

If you change my earllier advice and sparge with 8L instead of 5L, this should give you 13L into your pot for a boil, with the 250g ldm it will happen to give you 1049 for a boil gravity....but that will vary, depending on how well the mash went, so it will need to be checked. But if it's on target, you would need 17g of southern cross flowers (11.9%AA) for 60 minutes, and 40g saaz (4.0AA) for 20 minutes. Typically, if the target isn't hit, you might need to adjust the 60 min addition by a couple of grams either way, to rebalance it. In beersmith, thats very easy to do....I won't explain how at this point, because without having beersmith on screen to look at, it wouldn't make a lot of sense.


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

so the boil gravity will be 1049 but i have not added the can of extract will that stuff up the IBU's at the end


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

dj1984 said:


> so the boil gravity will be 1049 but i have not added the can of extract will that stuff up the IBU's at the end



When the can is added, the boil gravity goes right up, which lowers the (edit: further) utilisation of the hops...(edit: but the IBU that has already been extracted, stays extracted)....but if its added right at the end, ie last couple of minutes, or even at flame out, it doesn't have time to make a difference. For tins, the extract will be sterile inside the can anyway, so it can go in at flameout....dry extract is not in sterile containers, so is best to boil for at least a couple of minutes. But as I said, by that time, the difference it will make is sfa.


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

cheers mate you have been a great help im mashing as we speak about 20 more min till sparge will see how it comes out


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

dj1984 said:


> cheers mate you have been a great help im mashing as we speak about 20 more min till sparge will see how it comes out



:lol: 

Jeez, you're quick off the mark! Didn't think you'd be doing it today. :blink:

edit: if you get back to this as you go,...

once sparged, get it on the heat and disolve the dry _fully _in, then take a sample and get it into the freezer to cool to 20C...if its in a shallow container, it should be ready to read by the time your at the boil, or shortly after.


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## dj1984 (8/1/09)

yeah i had the day off i was going to brew something it just happend to be my first partial thanks too you for talking me into it :lol:


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## buttersd70 (9/1/09)

I take it everything went off OK for the most part....I noticed there were no panic posts. :lol: 
How did the BG turn out? Full report.....

What yeast are you using, btw?


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## dj1984 (9/1/09)

Yeah it all went ok i think,i didnt go for the 8L sparge i didnt think i would fit it all in my pot,so the BG come out at 1056 so i done the calc and used 14gm of sothern cross at 15.9AA and the 40gm of saaz by the calc it should of come out at 28IBU's. i went for glory and got the wyeast 2278 czech pilsner yeast i hope i got it right temps were a bit out i think.


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## Rodolphe01 (14/1/09)

Just hijacking this thread again 

I will be racking my pilsener tomorrow, if it is too sweet as suggested might be the case, do I just do a small boil of hops + water (i.e. make tea) and dump it into secondary? Ball park figure on how much hops to add? I'm a nubbin and have only done kits & bits so only ever used hops for aroma.

Hops I have on hand are saaz, hallertau, nelson sauvin and fuggle... I assume best to stick w/ the saaz eh?


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## buttersd70 (14/1/09)

Rudi 101 said:


> Just hijacking this thread again
> 
> I will be racking my pilsener tomorrow, *if* it is too sweet as suggested might be the case, do I just do a small boil of hops + water (i.e. make tea) and dump it into secondary? Ball park figure on how much hops to add? I'm a nubbin and have only done kits & bits so only ever used hops for aroma.
> 
> Hops I have on hand are saaz, hallertau, nelson sauvin and fuggle... I assume best to stick w/ the saaz eh?



Rudi, the 'if' is the question....have a taste of the final sample. Bear in mind that without carbonation, it may have a slightly more percieved sweetness, because you don't have any 'carbonic bite' in there....if it is still too sweet, then boil some saaz in a little water for 5? mins (ish). You were planning on dry hopping 20g...so instead of steeping it, give it a wee boil. Then strain and add to secondary. But the _actual _amount or time needed is pretty subjective....


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## Rodolphe01 (14/1/09)

yea was gonna taste it first, but just wanted to confirm technique _before_ i've racked it

also, can you tell me how long a piece of string is


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## buttersd70 (14/1/09)

Rudi 101 said:


> also, can you tell me how long a piece of string is



twice as long as half of it.  :lol:


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