# Voyager SM40



## Neil Buttriss (24/11/19)

Just wondering if anyone has brewed with this malt as a single malt beer, I am thinking of trying it out with maybe German traditional hops, Magnum as bittering, then Perle and Hallertau Mittlefruh as late additions?


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## Neil Buttriss (25/11/19)

I decieded to go with a 15 litre batch,
2.75 SM40
9g magnum @ 60
15g of both Perle and Hallertau Mittlfruh @ flameout
comes out at 1.040 - EBC 26.7 - IBU - 26.1
I like the Noble Hops


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## wide eyed and legless (26/11/19)

Be interested to see how it goes, there was two or three bags sold during the bulk buy.


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## MHB (26/11/19)

Very dark for a base malt, one thing to watch is going to be your mash time. Most pale base malts report Scarification Times in the order of 10 minutes, this one says 40-60 minutes. I would be looking at a longer mash, probably 90 minutes, just to be sure. Anything less and there is a good chance of a pretty sticky sweet beer.
One thing that annoys me is the lack of information, the following promo pic is all very good, gives some information but what is the use of a FGD yield without either the Coarse/Fine difference and the moisture content, be a lot smarter to give a CGAI yield (coarse grind as is) at least you could plan your grain bill better.





Mark


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## n87 (26/11/19)

MHB said:


> Very dark for a base malt, one thing to watch is going to be your mash time. Most pale base malts report Scarification Times in the order of 10 minutes, this one says 40-60 minutes. I would be looking at a longer mash, probably 90 minutes, just to be sure. Anything less and there is a good chance of a pretty sticky sweet beer.
> One thing that annoys me is the lack of information, the following promo pic is all very good, gives some information but what is the use of a FGD yield without either the Coarse/Fine difference and the moisture content, be a lot smarter to give a CGAI yield (coarse grind as is) at least you could plan your grain bill better.
> View attachment 116978
> 
> Mark



I do agree it would be handy to have a typical number for a few things on the marketing, but you can put the batch info into a section of the website and it gives you values for the batch you have


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## MHB (26/11/19)

Sure - after you buy their malt they will let you know what's in it
If I'm making buying decisions on malt I want to know what to expect up front, like a car maker would tell you the L/100km's, its part of the information you use to evaluate competing products. There are plenty of competitors.
Mark


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## Neil Buttriss (26/11/19)

Thanks for the tips, I will extend the Mash out to 90", Thanks Mark. Going to ferment it in Junior still deciding on my yeast, I've been using Imperial lately but might do a London Ale with this one.


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## shacked (26/11/19)

Hey mate, I've brewed a few single malt beers (or close to) with SM40. The best way I can describe it is as a "Munich 3" but without some of (what I perceive to be) the meaty flavors that you can get with the darker munich malts.

The ordinary bitter I did with 100% SM40 was great but the malt is a little on the sweeter side, so some extra bitterness can help balance it out. Yeast was 1469 and I would have gone with something that attenuates a little more. I think London Ale might be a good option for your beer. Maybe some more bitterness too.

I did a Belgian Dark Strong with SM40 + cane sugar + carafa sp2 with the awsome 3822. I increased IBUs on that to about 35-40 and mashed at 64C for what ended up being 2 hours. Attenuation was at the upper end of the range for the yeast.

I've spoken with Stu from Voyager and he likes SM40 with quite a bit of late hops for a hoppy red ale kind of beer. Here is a quote from an email:

_"Voodoo can be used up to 100% for quite an intense dark ale Same as the SM40 which was designed as a single malt session red ale.
Both Voodoo and SM40 have quite a lot of dextrins, and also being done with schooner variety the fermentability is low. We’ve designed them this way so they can accommodate large hopping rates in single malt beers."
_
Interested to see how your beer turns out! Keep us posted.


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## wide eyed and legless (26/11/19)

shacked said:


> Hey mate, I've brewed a few single malt beers (or close to) with SM40. The best way I can describe it is as a "Munich 3" but without some of (what I perceive to be) the meaty flavors that you can get with the darker munich malts.
> 
> The ordinary bitter I did with 100% SM40 was great but the malt is a little on the sweeter side, so some extra bitterness can help balance it out. Yeast was 1469 and I would have gone with something that attenuates a little more. I think London Ale might be a good option for your beer. Maybe some more bitterness too.
> 
> ...


Have you tried any of the other malts? I have only used the Valeria.


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## shacked (26/11/19)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Have you tried any of the other malts? I have only used the Valeria.



Yep, brewed with quite a few as it's all I use these days (except for a few spec malts): 
Atlas
Schooner
Veloria
Vienna
Munich
Mitika oats
Triticale 
Raw Spelt
Raw Wheat
Winter Wheat
SM40
Voodoo
Ryecorn
Black Barley
Roast, Choc, Amber, Biscuit

Their Vienna is really good. I've made some great 'farmhouse' style beers with 70% vienna / 30% wheat. Made a few hundred litres of turbid mashed wort with the black barley and raw wheat + spelt, that was great and really turbid. 

The atlas is really great for very pale beers. It doesn't seems to have any issues with DMS (I've never perceived any in the early stages of the boil) and worked really well in the adjunct lagers that I drink this time of year (80% Atlas, 17% flaked corn, 3% vienna. 4%ABV. 12 IBU saaz and the WL Mexican lager strain... oh.. plus a heap of RO water hahah).

I find their roasted malts to be a little bit ashy and have a slightly smokey flavor. That might be my tastebuds - I generally prefer a bit more subdued roast character. 

I'm a huge advocate for Stu and his team. Family owned and operated; and your malt doesn't have to travel half way around the world to get to you!!


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## Neil Buttriss (26/11/19)

shacked said:


> Hey mate, I've brewed a few single malt beers (or close to) with SM40. The best way I can describe it is as a "Munich 3" but without some of (what I perceive to be) the meaty flavors that you can get with the darker munich malts.
> 
> The ordinary bitter I did with 100% SM40 was great but the malt is a little on the sweeter side, so some extra bitterness can help balance it out. Yeast was 1469 and I would have gone with something that attenuates a little more. I think London Ale might be a good option for your beer. Maybe some more bitterness too.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the info, I was tempted to up the IBU a little but as it's the first time I've used this malt didn't want to overpower the malt with Hops, even though the hops I am using don't really take over. Might up the Bittering a little maybe by 2 or IBU or even FWH the Magnum.


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## sponge (27/11/19)

shacked said:


> Yep, brewed with quite a few as it's all I use these days (except for a few spec malts):
> Atlas
> Schooner
> Veloria
> ...



Bit OT, but funny you mention the ashy/smoke of the RB.

First time using it was in the BW case swap at 10%, and for the first couple of months I got a huge amount of exactly how you described it, dry ash and smoke/bacon. 

Double checked the malts to make sure I didn't accidentally add any smoked in there, so now that just confirms my suspicions. I'd certainly look at doing more of a 50/50 mix RB/choc if using it.

Back OT - I've got two lagers at 50% SM40, and certainly too sweet for that style. I've still got a cube of the same wort but with a fair amount of cube hops and will ferment with ale yeast. Expecting better results for a red/amber ale.

I'd certainly look at a long, low mash as previously suggested with anything over 40-50% SM40.

EDIT: Spelling


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## shacked (27/11/19)

sponge said:


> Bit OT, but funny you mention the ashy/smoke of the RB.
> 
> First time using it was in the BW case swap at 10%, and for the first couple of months I got a huge amount of exactly how you described it, dry ash and smoke/bacon.
> 
> Double checked the malts to make sure I didn't accidentally add any smoked in there, so now that just confirms my suspicions. I'd certainly look at doing more of a 50/50 mix RB/choc if using it.



Yep, I also get a bit of that characteristic from their chocolate malt too. Not unpleasant, just not what I was expecting.

Notwithstanding the distance they travel to get to me, I prefer RB from Castle, Muntons Pale Choc and [Dark] Chocolate from Crisp + good old Carafa Special for my [generally] highly attenuated beers (_11% ABV mixed culture RIS at 1.000 anyone?_).


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## Ale monster (28/11/19)

I have just done 2 brews with SM40 as only malt. Did 90min mash on both. 1st brew the colour looks the same as their pic. As someone mentioned earlier it does have a sweetness to it that I wasn’t expecting. 2nd brew will be ready to drink in about a week. I was impressed with the smell and taste of the grain during the brew.


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## Neil Buttriss (6/12/19)

Well did the SM40 today, not the best brew day Ive ever had but thats how it rolls. First off I have never done a full mash before, so I weigh the water out looks about 2 litres to much on the Guten, needed 22.3 water normally 22 is around the 20 litre mark but it was about 2 litres over (note to self, zero scales next time), i adjusted my millmaster 1 notch as been slightly off by a point or 2 lately, to fine got a lot of small stuff in the mash, ok Strained it out as was mashing so no real problem. 90 Minute mash went really well wort clear by 45 mins, Iodine test @ 70 showed pretty good conversion, test @ 90 showed great conversion, expected Pre Boil 1.030 got 1.026. So lets boil well it was the non boil from hell never had so much trouble couldn't reach 100, but had a bit of a boil @ 98.5. When it did reach 100 it would just switch off and show 98, Never had this on the Guten its been very reliable on the boil, so will check things out tomorrow, I will add the temps were perfect for the mash. So expected the OG to be down and it was not to bad though, looking for 1.036 got 1.032. So about 4 down each step, might be the grain settings in Brewersfriend as I just entered them as I thought good. Taste test very nice yep sweet but malty,


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## Ghostie (6/12/19)

shacked said:


> Yep, I also get a bit of that characteristic from their chocolate malt too. Not unpleasant, just not what I was expecting.
> 
> Notwithstanding the distance they travel to get to me, I prefer RB from Castle, Muntons Pale Choc and [Dark] Chocolate from Crisp + good old Carafa Special for my [generally] highly attenuated beers (_11% ABV mixed culture RIS at 1.000 anyone?_).



I have only used schooner malt but my experience is that this malt is also sweet. Do you have any recipies that schooner is designed for? I have looked but cannot find any. I used 1/2 schooner in my golden ale and whilst I like the taste of schooner it has made the golden ale a little sweet. 

Thanks


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## Neil Buttriss (6/12/19)

I have used the Veloria Schooner as a single malt, its a little sweet but not to bad, I am thinking that as these malts have a sweetness no more crystal malts so looking to use a bit of Biscuit or Munich malts might do.


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## Truman42 (6/12/19)

I did this pale Ale with Veloria, pale malt (was going to be a smash but I didn't have enough Veloria) and Idaho 7 hops and it was awesome. Going to brew again as a SMASH.

Recipe: Voyager 
Brewer: Troy
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26.9 L
Post Boil Volume: 22.4 L
Batch Size (fermenter): 19.0 L 
Bottling Volume: 18.0 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 10.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 44.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.2 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume 
31.7 L MELBOURNE WATER PROFILE Water 1 - - 
1.98 g Calcium Chloride (Mash) Water Agent 2 - - 
1.55 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash) Water Agent 3 - - 
1.34 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash) Water Agent 4 - - 
1.00 g Baking Soda (Mash) Water Agent 5 - - 
3.17 kg VELORIA Schooner(Voyager Craft Malt) (8.0 EBC) Grain 6 67.9 % 2.1 L 
1.50 kg Pale Ale Malt (Bairds) (4.9 EBC) Grain 7 32.1 % 1.0 L 
12.00 g Idaho #7 [12.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 18.8 IBUs - 
1.11 g Calcium Chloride (Boil) Water Agent 9 - - 
0.87 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Boil) Water Agent 10 - - 
0.75 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil) Water Agent 11 - - 
25.00 g Idaho #7 [12.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 19.5 IBUs - 
10.00 g Idaho #7 [12.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min, Hop 13 6.0 IBUs - 
2.0 pkg Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 14 - - 


Mash Schedule: Troys mash
Total Grain Weight: 4.67 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Mash In Add 20.0 L of water at 73.67 C 67.00 C 60 min 
mash out Heat to 75.00 C over 4 min 75.00 C 15 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 11.6 L water at 75.00 C
Notes:
------
1.013 10 Aug 2019. Added 50 grams of Idaho to fermenter

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Neil Buttriss (8/12/19)

Neil Buttriss said:


> Well did the SM40 today, not the best brew day Ive ever had but thats how it rolls. First off I have never done a full mash before, so I weigh the water out looks about 2 litres to much on the Guten, needed 22.3 water normally 22 is around the 20 litre mark but it was about 2 litres over (note to self, zero scales next time), i adjusted my millmaster 1 notch as been slightly off by a point or 2 lately, to fine got a lot of small stuff in the mash, ok Strained it out as was mashing so no real problem. 90 Minute mash went really well wort clear by 45 mins, Iodine test @ 70 showed pretty good conversion, test @ 90 showed great conversion, expected Pre Boil 1.030 got 1.026. So lets boil well it was the non boil from hell never had so much trouble couldn't reach 100, but had a bit of a boil @ 98.5. When it did reach 100 it would just switch off and show 98, Never had this on the Guten its been very reliable on the boil, so will check things out tomorrow, I will add the temps were perfect for the mash. So expected the OG to be down and it was not to bad though, looking for 1.036 got 1.032. So about 4 down each step, might be the grain settings in Brewersfriend as I just entered them as I thought good. Taste test very nice yep sweet but malty,



Found what my problem probably was, a loose connection to the Large element.


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## shacked (9/12/19)

Ghostie said:


> I have only used schooner malt but my experience is that this malt is also sweet. Do you have any recipies that schooner is designed for? I have looked but cannot find any. I used 1/2 schooner in my golden ale and whilst I like the taste of schooner it has made the golden ale a little sweet.
> 
> Thanks



AFAIK, Schooner is designed for hop heavy pale beers and spec malt forward beers like stouts. It attenuates less than their other pale malts. 

Try atlas for your golden ale. Perhaps with a light touch of Vienna (5%) and some oats or a little wheat. 20IBU of your fav hop combo (I like Motueka or Idaho 7 in a golden). Mash at 64/65 and ferment with some American or english ale yeast. 

Veloria is more of a GP/Maris Otter style base malt for malt forward beers. I’ve made some great ordinary bitters with just MO and some EKG early and Northdown late with WLP013.


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## wide eyed and legless (9/12/19)

shacked said:


> AFAIK, Schooner is designed for hop heavy pale beers and spec malt forward beers like stouts. It attenuates less than their other pale malts.
> 
> Try atlas for your golden ale. Perhaps with a light touch of Vienna (5%) and some oats or a little wheat. 20IBU of your fav hop combo (I like Motueka or Idaho 7 in a golden). Mash at 64/65 and ferment with some American or english ale yeast.
> 
> Veloria is more of a GP/Maris Otter style base malt for malt forward beers. I’ve made some great ordinary bitters with just MO and some EKG early and Northdown late with WLP013.


It is confusing as most of their malts end in schooner, Veloria Schooner, Pale Schooner, Vienna Schooner, Munich Schooner etc.


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## MHB (9/12/19)

What's confusing about it?
Schooner is the variety of malt the prefix is telling you how its been malted (processed).
Just like Heritage Crystal Maris Otter, is Crystal made from Maris Otter. Just tells you that they grow and malt a lot of Schooner in different ways.

Back when, Coopers used it almost exclusively, its very good at making a beer just like Coopers, it was always a bit of a niggle that changing the mash conditions, the boil or anything else and you got almost exactly the same beer, which can be a mixed blessing.
Mark


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## wide eyed and legless (9/12/19)

MHB said:


> What's confusing about it?
> Schooner is the variety of malt the prefix is telling you how its been malted (processed).
> Just like Heritage Crystal Maris Otter, is Crystal made from Maris Otter. Just tells you that they grow and malt a lot of Schooner in different ways.
> 
> ...


What was confusing, during the bulk buy some were just ordering Schooner.


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## shacked (9/12/19)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What was confusing, during the bulk buy some were just ordering Schooner.



Yeah there are 2 kinds of pale ale malts: compass and schooner. that's where the confusing lies. Perhaps: Pale Ale (Schooner), Pale Ale (Compass), Veloria (Schooner) may make more sense.


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## wide eyed and legless (9/12/19)

shacked said:


> Yeah there are 2 kinds of pale ale malts: compass and schooner. that's where the confusing lies. Perhaps: Pale Ale (Schooner), Pale Ale (Compass), Veloria (Schooner) may make more sense.


I reckon drop the Schooner, next bulk buy would make it far more simple.


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## MHB (9/12/19)

wide eyed and legless said:


> What was confusing, during the bulk buy some were just ordering Schooner.


Sorry my bad I didn't see where this stopped being a discussion about a malt (SM40) and became one about your bulk buy.


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## shacked (9/12/19)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I reckon drop the Schooner, next bulk buy would make it far more simple.



Suggest you drop Stu an email. He’s really responsive and also a nice fella!


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## wide eyed and legless (9/12/19)

shacked said:


> Suggest you drop Stu an email. He’s really responsive and also a nice fella!


I don't mind how its labeled , just when its ordered as '1 bag of Schooner' it gets confusing.


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## Ghostie (10/12/19)

shacked said:


> AFAIK, Schooner is designed for hop heavy pale beers and spec malt forward beers like stouts. It attenuates less than their other pale malts.
> 
> Try atlas for your golden ale. Perhaps with a light touch of Vienna (5%) and some oats or a little wheat. 20IBU of your fav hop combo (I like Motueka or Idaho 7 in a golden). Mash at 64/65 and ferment with some American or english ale yeast.
> 
> Veloria is more of a GP/Maris Otter style base malt for malt forward beers. I’ve made some great ordinary bitters with just MO and some EKG early and Northdown late with WLP013.




Thanks Shacked. I just might try to use the schooner in a Zombie Dust brew because that is hop heavy (I hope I understand correctly).

I have used some Atlas in a Kolsch I am trying to brew. I got the idea from KegKing (no affiliation) in Springvale whom had a Kolsch on tap that I tried. At the moment this brew is in an open fermenter ( arrgh I'm doing it again).


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