# My Third Brew: Morgan's Golden Sheaf.



## everythingsucks (3/3/07)

Hey guys at the suggestion of simpletotoro I am going to do a morgan's golden sheaf wheat beer in the next few days. 

Ingredients i have purchased include: 

Morgans golden sheaf wheat beer can
600g dex 400g maltodex
Brewiser finishing hops brew bag (hallertau)
Safale K-97 yeast.
and about 200g of light dry malt leftover from a previous brew


So anyways I don't know much about homebrewing although I've been researching on the internet heaps the last few weeks and my first 2 attempts have ended in them tasting like crap even though i tried being really careful in my preperation. I think it is due to too much temperature variation because i turned my heating mat on and off while they were fermenting because i worried about the temperature being too low. Since then I have realised through reading the forums that a lower temperature for most beers is better.
I can hold a fairly steady 21 degrees in my garage if i don't use any heating or insulation because it's underneath the unit i live in and is concrete so I'm thinking I'll try without a mat or anything and keep a constant temperature.
I have been as clean as possible and clean my kit as much as i can handle before i do a brew. I'm using plastic bottles with carbonation drops and I can't think of anything else which would be relevant really.

So the reason for my making this thread is i would like some tips from people before i start it and things i should be aware of. Temperature okay, my ingredients, etc? 

Comeon guys help me do a successful brew!!


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## mika (3/3/07)

Looks good...brew beer !
Temp of 21 is good, lower is even better, but that's not bad.
I brewed plenty of beers at 24 or more when I started and they kinda tasted OK.
What cleaner are you using ? You can never be too stringent with your cleaning regime. Anything contacting your beer needs to be sanitised. Remember your sanitiser needs at least 1minute in contact with the object to be fully effective. Preferably use a no-rinse sanitiser. Rinse everything what's it's used to stop bacteria forming. Read lots on this forum and you 
should be good.
Somewhere on here Pint of Lager started a brewing FAQs post, find it, read it, do it.

Everything else is easy


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## everythingsucks (4/3/07)

Ummm I'm not using a brewing sanitiser i was just using dilluted bleach and rinsing lots. Is that bad?

Maybe that's where my problem has been....


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## Brooksy (4/3/07)

Time, Temperature and Cleanliness. All of equal importance.

Everybody brews a crook batch, sometime or other.

Mate I wouldn't be using diluted bleach. No way at all. Never ever heard of using it.

Haven't tried the kit you mentioned, would be interested to read a report on it.

Scrub your gear and bottles using proper washing compound and sterilizer (yaddayadda)

How long are you leaving your brew in the fermenter before bottling?
How long in the bottle before you sample?

Some local blokes up my way brew(ed) crap in summer because of temp, so now they only brew great brews 8 months of the year (and pissed for 4), but 21 constant should be fine.

Keep your temp as constant as possible. I'm getting reasonable (I think) results at 24 - 26 deg (don't fall over people), but would be better at much lower temp. Can't wait til April and some cooler weather.

Don't rush it & don't sweat into your fermenter.

Always remember: *Bad beers are great beers when there's nothing else.* 

Don't give up.

SWMBO keeps banning me (1979, 1985, 1992), but I always get parole.


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## mika (4/3/07)

Think there a few brewers out there using Bleach, but got to be the unscented kinda and I'd have no idea of the dilution rates. Perhaps do a search ?
Personally I use Idophor, but have used Pink Steri as well.
I've used bleach / Napisan for soaking stubborn stains in, but that's the extent of y experience with bleach.


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## Brooksy (4/3/07)

My Granddad & dad both brewed & I just can't remember what they sanitized with (back in the 60s). 

I use anything I can get my hands on - pinky (3 types), sod met, no rinse. lol

Sitting back sampling an Aust Draught @ 2 weeks - coming along fine.


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## everythingsucks (4/3/07)

I had my brews in the fermenter for about a week before i bottled. I've heard that if you leave it in there for any longer then you need to and you are susceptable to infection. 

And the answer to your other question is i tried one of my brews every 2 weeks for 2 months praying that it would improve and i didn't manage to finish one bottle it was so bad. The second brew I've only had in for about 2 weeks and I've already tried one and it tastes like shit but i know it probably hasn't been long enough to pass judgement yet.

I just can't seem to wait to taste my beer. I get thirsty!


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## Brooksy (4/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> I just can't seem to wait to taste my beer. I get thirsty!



Yer only human mate. I check gas at 7 days, 8 days, 9 daze...... lol. I'm adding another fermenter on Monday to get some winter ales done quickly.

I gotta say it really, really sounds like the bleach thing. Probably not getting all the residue out. If you can't get to a LHBS, just pickup some sanitizer from BigW or other supermarket. Your LHBS (like ours) should have access to topshelf stuff at a good price.

I know it is sounding monotinous but keep at it, , keep cleaning, don't stir it up, try not to get the crud on the side of the fermenter back into your beer. That really makes the brew stink.

It's bigger than Texas mate.


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## mika (4/3/07)

Can you describe the taste ? Is it sweet, dry, vegemite, ?

Are you taking a hydro reading before you bottle ? Gotta be 1014 or below before bottling.
Leaving the brew on the yeast cake is not such a bad thing s long as it's fairly cool. I've gone 3wks before, 1.5 to 2 wks is common.

If there was bleach resiude in the brew it would come thru in the taste and taste like bleach, or upset the yeast and you'd never get it to ferment out.

Rule for bottling, don't touch anything before 4wks...longer is better.


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## Brooksy (4/3/07)

mika_lika said:


> Rule for bottling, don't touch anything before 4wks...longer is better.



Aw come on Mika.  
A man's not a camel. :chug: 

Ya gotta test that you got your gassing right, Keep checking for infections. :lol: 

Ummmm, I suppose that's why my vintage stock is 6 weeks old. :huh: 

I'm still experiment after a "SWMBO enforced" lay off.


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## everythingsucks (4/3/07)

Ummm i dunno if it tastes infected or not, but it's a really sharp taste and it's too much too handle. It's undrinkable for me anyway. Maybe the brew worked fine but it's just a really low quality taste because it's a kit? I have no idea because i haven't tried one before.

It's been bottled for 2 months now so i don't think the taste is going to improve much more then that is it?


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## Brooksy (4/3/07)

Sharp taste - > Dry?

Would you call it a bleach taste?

Your recipe sounds like your brew should be quite smooth.....

These daze, kits are good. The definitive KISS principle. You don't appear to have done anything wrong recipe wise, so it has to come back to cleaning. (IMHO).

Best thing to do is use sanitizer, for your cleaning and try again. Don't leave vessels open while waiting, etc, etc.

What does it smell like? Are all bottles exactly the same?

What about your current brew? Have you drained off and check SG yet? How did it smell? Did you taste it?

When cleaning you fermenter, don't scrub it, soak it and use a soft sponge.


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## simpletotoro (4/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> Hey guys at the suggestion of simpletotoro I am going to do a morgan's golden sheaf wheat beer in the next few days.
> 
> Ingredients i have purchased include:
> 
> ...



hi...
i feel for you brother...i guess you've twigged like most of us do the instructions in the can/kit lid are at best misleading...i personally feel there crapola...they always recommend a to high fermentation temp...also they allow you to think that white table sugar is ok to use...not to mention two weeks bottle conditioning is all that you need... 
i realise that in this last wheat beer your using 600 g dextrose,400 g maltodextrin(by the way maltodextrin...from what i hear does not ferment out much if not at all but is fine for body...) but you don't say what you used in the two pervious brews...or what the two previous brews were?
anyway below is a link to a page with some common off flavours...(maybe this will help)
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
you now i figure that ales should be fermented at 18-20/c (note they'll take longer to ferment out at this temperature then you previous brews okay...use you hydrometre as someone else has already said)
on the bleach subject i use homebrand unscented regular bleach about $1.20 for 2 litres <diluted 3/4 cup in my fermenter >and then rinse with boiling or very hot water a couple of times to remove the bleach (i save the water and bleach mixture in big tubs or eskies for use to sanatise my bottles...again clean then sanatise bottles then soak and rinse in very hot water to make sure no bleach gets through...)i never have any problems with using bleach...but have looked into for ease and convienance using no-rinse sanitisers...
sanitisers link below ...
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/ineo...;showarticle=18
...i've done that morgans kit a couple of times before...and it works out pretty good i think...recipe below...
BEER TYPE: Redback clone METHOD: Kit and kilo
INGREDIENTS: Tin: Morgans golden sheaf wheat beer x 1 (1.7kg)
Sugars: 600g dextrose, 200g malt, 200g corn syrup
Hops: Morgans finishing hops (Hallertau)
Yeast: Morgans ale yeast 6g 
SECONARDY FERMENTAION: Bulk PRIMED @ 140 g white sugar (homebrand)
this one okay a tad light on flavour though but easy to drink....

BEER TYPE: Evil Twin Wheat Beer METHOD: Kit and kilo
INGREDIENTS: Tin: Morgans golden sheaf wheat beer x 1 (1.7kg)
Extract: 1 kg Morgans master blend (beer enhancer)
Sugars: 500g dextrose
Hops: Willamette and Hallertau

Hop schedule: 8g Hallertau boiled in extract @10 mins
8g Willamette boiled in extract @10 mins
4g Willamette boiled in extract @5mins after flameout
4g Hallertau boiled in extract @5mins after flameout 
Yeast: Morgans ale yeast 6g (25/c)
this one better but still to young...

also this link to this post has heaps of other useful info and links ...(hope they help)
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=14202
cheers simpletotoro


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## Adamt (4/3/07)

Invest in some Iodophor/Orthophosphoric acid, and some home brand unscented napisan for sanitising and cleaning.

Always clean before you sanitise;

-All my equipment gets a soak in homebrand napisan and water for a few hours, and is then thoroughly wiped, rinsed and dried for storage. Make sure you clean your taps/tap threads as well

-Before I use it I rinse with hot water, then rinse with hot water and a squirt of orthophosphoric acid, before a final rinse.

-Fill a spray bottle with orthophosphoric solution and spray/wipe your tap after drawing samples.

Don't use all the maltodextrin, maybe 200g of it max? It doesn't ferment and you want a wheat beer grainy/chewy, not syrupy.

As suggested 21C is pretty good, make sure it is constant though and drop it to 18 if you can. The first few days of fermentation are the most imporant times for temperature control.

Good luck!


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## Brooksy (5/3/07)

Well there you go. :beer: 

What do you reckon ETSux? 
There are some great tips here and they will lead you down the path to great grog.

I've never considered any of the napisan style products as bleaches... Ah well, ya live'n learn.

Thanx fellas (cheers),

Good luck mate.


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## everythingsucks (5/3/07)

When i make this kit should i boil it on the stove or just chuck it in the fermenter or what?


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## Tyred (5/3/07)

Probably boil the malt for 15mins. 
You can dissolve the other dry ingredients in it at the end. 
At flame-out, mix kit goo into liquid. 
You could use some of the hotter liquid to rinse the can. 
Make a hop tea (cup of boiling water with hops in it for 5-10 minutes). 
Mix everything into the fermenter. 
Take hop bag out of mix before adding hop tea to fermenter. 
Top up with water. 
Try use some cold water to get temp down to whatever K97 wants (can't remember at the moment)


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## simpletotoro (5/3/07)

Tyred said:


> Probably boil the malt for 15mins.
> You can dissolve the other dry ingredients in it at the end.
> At flame-out, mix kit goo into liquid.
> You could use some of the hotter liquid to rinse the can.
> ...


hi...yeah i agree with that ...except you might want to hop it up a bit more...say 15-20 grams of saaz or something like that...(my first one tasted okay but lacked a little in taste...)use that hop guide you got off the other thread...i realize you mightn't have any other hops in stock if so do what i did...cut open your teabag of hops ... boil the malt in a couple of litres of water...then add the hops (minus bag...or better still 15-20 grams of saaz hops) for 10 minutes on a simmer or rolling boil...then turn off heat ... add some more hops if want and bingo your done...add your other fermentables and kit...NOTE from memory it says to not add the kit until temp is under 70-75/c ...maybe add some chilled water till it gets around this )...then do as per normal pitch yeast at around 18-20/c ...keep a constant fermenting tempertaure again 18-20/c ...please let me know how the yeast goes...hell how the whole brew goes...will be keen to hear (PM me please when you taste it thanks)
cheers simple


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## everythingsucks (5/3/07)

Whats the best way to remove the hops from the water when I'm adding the mix to the fermenter?


I'm sorry i keep asking so many questions I'm just real keen not to **** up again...


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## phonos (6/3/07)

Just leave 'em in. Assuming you're using pellets, they'll just settle to the bottom.


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## bconnery (6/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> Hey guys at the suggestion of simpletotoro I am going to do a morgan's golden sheaf wheat beer in the next few days.
> 
> Ingredients i have purchased include:
> 
> ...



This has probably been covered but first up: that's a fine selection of ingredients to go with that kit. k97 will also do best fermented warmer, like 21, rather than cooler as is usually the case, in my book at least. It's the only way to get something approaching wheat beer flavours out of it. 
Edit: I strain into the fermenter, especially as I don't use a grain or hop bag of any sort most of the time...

Regarding bleach: This is a perfectly good sanitizer. I use it all the time. There are two main points. 
Don't leave the solution sitting in your fermenters or equipment for too long. More than a day is not really good. 
The solution is quite weak. I use a capful (depending on the cap. They don't seem to be a standard size) in about 20L of water. I make up a solution every now and again after bottling or racking and then fill three large bottles with the leftovers. I use ordinary cheap bleach. 
Laurie Strachan's guide to homebrewing, an excellent book for starting out, details the use of this method. 

I believe it isn't great if you are using stainless steel either but that's not an issue for me...

I have never had any problem with off flavours, at least bleach related, or infection.


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## Josh (6/3/07)

The recipe looks fine.

I use generic napisan to clean stubborn bits off my gear. Just be sure to rinse well. I also use iodophor to santise my stuff before brewing.

Here's what I would do:
Soak the kit in hot water for 5 minutes to soften the malt extract.

In a small pot get a couple of litres of water to the boil. Throw in the 200g malt extract with your halertau hops and boil up for 10 minutes. 

Take off the heat and use that hot water to mix in your kit in the fermenter. Just leave the hops in the water, it won't do any harm.

Add the rest of your sugars, mix in.

Add the amount of water you need to get to your desired volume. Conversely add water until you reach your desired OG.

I've made a very similar recipe numerous times for a friend. Morgans Wheat is his standard brew here at my place. With the K-97 you will have a really nice beer.

relax...
:chug:


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## everythingsucks (6/3/07)

I'm getting excited !!

I've got my mate coming over to give me a hand on sunday too. Think I'll have a few beers, put some music on and make us some beer!


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## jdsaint (6/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> I'm getting excited !!
> 
> I've got my mate coming over to give me a hand on sunday too. Think I'll have a few beers, put some music on and make us some beer!



I find that if you put on some "30 seconds to mars", "Hinder", "Fall out boy", & Panic at the disco makes great brewing and great socialising


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## everythingsucks (6/3/07)

wtf I'm not gonna listen to that emo crap. If i played that to my mate he would probably kill me... or i would slit my wrists...


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## jdsaint (6/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> wtf I'm not gonna listen to that emo crap. If i played that to my mate he would probably kill me... or i would slit my wrists...



oh sorry robbie fan then? :lol:


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## everythingsucks (6/3/07)

No, punk fan. You, Sir Emo, are my mortal enemy.

Oh and I'm from the shire also and you are a dragons supporter so we are going to have to dual to the death now. No seriously.


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## jdsaint (6/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> No, punk fan. You, Sir Emo, are my mortal enemy.
> 
> Oh and I'm from the shire also and you are a dragons supporter so we are going to have to dual to the death now. No seriously.


 The shire? Is'nt that the gummy sharks? oh yer I am more into rap bro but punk is just what i listen to when my bro's drink with me, family and friends we listen to matchbox twenty, meat loaf, so what's your music? You not taken this to offence are you bro? it's all fun n games, no hard feelins king of the shire, I am pullin your leg bro :lol: :beer: cheers


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## Beerpig (6/3/07)

Beer ................... bringing people together

Is there nothing it cannot do?

Cheers


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## everythingsucks (7/3/07)

Just taking the piss. My favourite bands of all time are Operation Ivy, Mad Caddies, Misfits, Descendents, hot snakes and Led Zeppelin.

Dunno if you've heard any of them but they're all awesome!


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## rough60 (7/3/07)

Hi there,
Try using 1kg of dried wheat malt instead of the dex and maltodex.
That way you still get a good head and better flavour.
Cheers.

Edit: use the light dry malt to prime


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## everythingsucks (13/3/07)

Okay I'm currently making the brew with the ingredients i listed at the start but my hop bag broke open while I am boiling it for 10 minutes... That doesn't really matter, yeah?

Smells good so far!


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## mika (13/3/07)

She be sweet, it'll just taste chunky :-D

As long as you leave it settle plenty before bottling/kegging it be good !


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## everythingsucks (13/3/07)

Will it really turn out chunky?

Okay it's done and in the fermenter, had a bit of a blunder and started filling up the fermenter while the tap was open so the kitchen floor got wort all over it. That happened to anyone else? 

I think this one will turn out good!


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## microbe (13/3/07)

I'm sure that you and I are not the only two brewers to get wort all over the floor  - I have only done it once though - SWMBO was not impressed!!  

cheers,

microbe


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## mika (14/3/07)

You're not a real brewer until you've spilt wort on the floor 

It'll look chunky at the moment with all the bits of hop pellet floating around in it, but as long as you give it time to settle before bottling...ie don't pick the fermentor up walk with it to your bottling area and start bottling straight away, she be sweet.


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## everythingsucks (30/3/07)

Hey guys my brew has been in the fermenter for 2 weeks now and it has stopped bubbling vigorously but it is still bubbling slowly. Is it safe to bottle? I will get a hydrometer reading later today.


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## Josh (30/3/07)

everythingsucks said:


> Hey guys my brew has been in the fermenter for 2 weeks now and it has stopped bubbling vigorously but it is still bubbling slowly. Is it safe to bottle? I will get a hydrometer reading later today.


Noooooooooooo
If it's still bubbling at all, don't bottle.

Wait until all physical signs of fermentation have finished, then take a gravity reading. Then take one the next day and if they are the same, you can think about bottling. I normally wait another day to double check that it's finished.

If you bottle with fermentables still in your brew, added to the priming sugar, you can have bottle bombs. Or at the very least overcarbed beer.

I know it's hard, especially if the hydrometer readings taste good but relax!


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## v8r (31/3/07)

remember, airlock activity isnt the be all and end all of ferment indicators.. get that FG, if its at or below 1014-ish for 3 days in a row, youre right to bottle..


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## everythingsucks (3/4/07)

I'm pretty sure my wort is still fermenting now, after 12 days so i took a hydrometer reading just then and it is 1008... Whats the deal with that?

Someone just said it should be around 1014 but mine is below that and still fermenting.

Any suggestions?

(I tasted it though and it tastes okay!)


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## simpletotoro (3/4/07)

everythingsucks said:


> I'm pretty sure my wort is still fermenting now, after 12 days so i took a hydrometer reading just then and it is 1008... Whats the deal with that?
> 
> Someone just said it should be around 1014 but mine is below that and still fermenting.
> 
> ...


hi...try taking another hydro reading tomorrow and if its the same then no problems bottle when you want...as for why its lower then 1014 ...could be heaps of things ...
try calibrating your hydrometre in water...it should read zero...if it doesn't note the reading and adjust all results accordingly...i assume temp of the fluid plays a part in variations as well...also the ingredients that were used...
i just re-read that post and i think they just meant that if you got 3 readings on different days that were below 1014 then you right to bottle...just in case the yeast got stuck ... i wouldn't worry about it too much...as long as you get two readings <or three as said below> that are the same on different days at the end of fermentation then its more then likely finished...as for bubbles may just be the trapped co2 escaping if your fermenter has been bumped or maybe a rise in temp..

just in case your interested this site <below> has heaps of info...note the two on *racking and bulk priming*...
also you can buy a 25 litre camping container from bunnings for about $15 and a tap for it for about $2 ...
make sure its the one with the wide opening at the top <for cleaning and sanitising >and rubber o-ring...its got a bung in it with a thread... theres another one there almost the same with no tap hole don't get it ......just get a lenght of food grade hose about 1-1.5 metres and your set up for racking and bulk priming...you can do what i've done as well and drill a hole to suit a grommet that will fit an airlock and you've got another fermenter as well.
link
http://www.grumpys.com.au/manual.php3
remember let me know how she tastes...
cheers simpletotoro

*edit...really worsest grammer fixing.


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## wildschwein (9/4/07)

Don't be scared of bleach as a sanatizer. Just make sure it's an unscented vareity (ie not lemon bleach). In fact Charlie Papazian, an American Home brewer with a degree in nuclear engineering, recommends bleach as a sanatizer in his book "The Homebrewer's Companion," Avon Books (1994). Just use about a 1/4 of cup per 15 litres of cold water and clean everything in it. If space is limited and you don't have a bath tub or big sink buy a large plastic garbage bin and fill that up instead. Soak all your bottles and equipment in it until your ready to fill/use them. 

In order to remove any smell from your bottles and equipment just rinse in very hot tap water which helps to evaporate off the chlorine smell.

I wouldn't use any form of carbonation drops as they are probably not sterile. Rather you should boil up about 3/4 cup of dextrose or sugar (for a 23 litre brew) with an eqal quantity of water and use that instead as it will be sterile. If you're an all malt nut like me you could use a cup of dried malt extract boiled with a cup of water instead. Use a sterilized spoon and funnel to distribute the mix evenly among your bottles.

Another problem is that kit instructions do not tell you to boil the sugar component when your mixing up your brew at the beginning. Rather, they always tell you to mix the 1.7kg tin with 1kg of sugar and 2 litres of hot water. This is not good advice as the sugar can have microbes around the granules that can lead to an infected or sour tasting beer. You should, at the very least, boil the sugar component with the two litres of water before putting it into your fermenter with the tin of extract.


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## mika (9/4/07)

You'll find there's heaps of people who've used carbo drops and never had a problem and bulk priming still has it's own little traps.
I think adding equal amounts of malt extract to each bottle, depending on your measurement technique is a high risk way of priming. If you're measuring with a syringe or something like that...I guess...and if it works for you, even better.

There's some who claim you should not rinse after sanitising, after all why did you sanitise if you're going to expose the bottle to un-sanitised water ?

Then there was that whole thread about whether you sanitise your bottle caps or not !

All of it's gotta be digested and then make up your own mind.


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## everythingsucks (17/4/07)

Just tasted one then, tastes like piss. I've got the shits so bad now.

I dunno what it is but all 3 brews have the same weird taste to them. I can't describe it...


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