# Home Made Conical Fermenter



## dabre4 (16/6/09)

So I've been working on this little project for a while, and now its finally done! This was VERY cheap, thanks to a few bits and pieces I already had and thanks to work letting me have a few extra valves they had. The fermenter is from a Cooper Home Brew kit, I just cut the bottom off, and attached a funnel from Grain and Grape. This was a perfect, and I mean perfect, fit (to my surprise!). My main troubles were with sealing it all up. I finally got there after a few attempts and a lot of food grade silicon! 

My inspiration for this came from a forum I read of this site. Anyway, I thought anyone out there wanting to make there own might like some pics. The part I had the most trouble with is the valve at the base of the cone, which I attached by clamping a cutoff faucet socket (and lot of silicon). Anyway, by doing it this way I can unscrew the ball valve and make sure its nice and clean for the next brew. The fermenter and funnel are attached by scoring the surfaces and sealing with silicon. The wooden frame was made complete and then glued on. Anyway, I'm off to the homebrew store to by some ingredient for its maiden voyage.


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## peas_and_corn (16/6/09)

Wow, that's a pretty good effort.

I recommend you test it out by filling it with water for a while to make sure that the seals hold and can take the weight


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## dabre4 (16/6/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Wow, that's a pretty good effort.
> 
> I recommend you test it out by filling it with water for a while to make sure that the seals hold and can take the weight





Already done. I filled it to the brim ( I never plan of filling above 25L, and it holds around 33L) and let it sit for about 3 hours. No signs of leaks what so ever.


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## bonk (16/6/09)

awesome stuff, been thinking about this as well since i saw the thread as well.

must be diy week for ahb


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## Steve (16/6/09)

Good stuff doog. I would be inclined to test it over a week or however long your average ferment is instead of 3 hours....but thats just me being paranoid. What temp water did you test it with? Well done!
Cheers
Steve


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## seravitae (16/6/09)

awesome work mate. coupled with the other thread of the bucket-o-doom brewery, i say combining this with a bucket-o-doom brewery really opens up AG to people on a limited budget - good on you.

Also i would suggest leaving water in there for 48 hours with something underneath it so you can see any drips. 3 hours usually isnt long enough to leak test in systems like that. I leak test all my water lines around electrical equipment for 48 hours before suggesting they are stable. Also you may want to consider leak testing it with ice cold water. The silicon will contract in colder temperatures which may cause the joint to crack - things might be fine for room temp fermenting but if you plan on gearing that up in a fermentor fridge, you may run into issues at lower temps due to the thermal expansion/contraction of the materials..


As a further extension, you could try to find a funnel out of matching plastic (to the fermentor) and have a plastics company use ultrasonic welding to seal them together... could make a pretty penny selling plastic conicals like that. i'd sure as hell buy one in an instant.


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## Leigh (16/6/09)

Brilliant idea. Well done Doog!

Have you any detailed pics of the build-up, particularly attaching the valve at the base?


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## raven19 (16/6/09)

More inspiration, a nice setup there!
Would be very light and easy to move around when empty too.
Well done.


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## schooey (16/6/09)

Well done, dude! Interesting approach.

I will be watching keenly to see how the seal between the funnel and the fermenter goes for harbouring bacteria after a while, and I was also wondering if you have put the offtake valve high enough? Maybe the photo's are a bit deceptive, but how much volume is left below it?

Not meaning to take anything away from your work, just curious


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## katzke (16/6/09)

sera said:


> ... could make a pretty penny selling plastic conicals like that. i'd sure as hell buy one in an instant.



Wer can get them here in The USA. Don't see why you could not get them in OZ but I am sure like everything else they would cost a bit. I would have to dig up a link if I even still had it but I think it was USA Plastics that had them. As usual I could be remembering wrong.


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## Barley Belly (16/6/09)

Nice looking work Doog, looks like there has been plenty of thought gone into this project



A question from a conical noob
How do you drain your brew off the yeast cake?


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## Batz (16/6/09)

finners said:


> Nice looking work Doog, looks like there has been plenty of thought gone into this project
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You drain your yeast cake off your brew


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## Barley Belly (16/6/09)

Batz said:


> You drain your yeast cake off your brew



Ahhh Hah (insert embarrased Icon)


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## dabre4 (16/6/09)

sera said:


> awesome work mate. coupled with the other thread of the bucket-o-doom brewery, i say combining this with a bucket-o-doom brewery really opens up AG to people on a limited budget - good on you.
> 
> Also i would suggest leaving water in there for 48 hours with something underneath it so you can see any drips. 3 hours usually isnt long enough to leak test in systems like that. I leak test all my water lines around electrical equipment for 48 hours before suggesting they are stable. Also you may want to consider leak testing it with ice cold water. The silicon will contract in colder temperatures which may cause the joint to crack - things might be fine for room temp fermenting but if you plan on gearing that up in a fermentor fridge, you may run into issues at lower temps due to the thermal expansion/contraction of the materials..
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advice, I've re-filled it with water and will let it sit for a couple of days before I do anything silly. Its inevitable that its going to spring a leak one day, but if I can get a couple of brews out of it before it does i'll be a happy camper.


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## dabre4 (16/6/09)

schooey said:


> Well done, dude! Interesting approach.
> 
> I will be watching keenly to see how the seal between the funnel and the fermenter goes for harbouring bacteria after a while, and I was also wondering if you have put the offtake valve high enough? Maybe the photo's are a bit deceptive, but how much volume is left below it?
> 
> Not meaning to take anything away from your work, just curious



Hey. When the two slid in together there is a nice lip between them, which I filled in with silicon and smoothed over...... so theoretically nothing can get into the gap, its just a flat surface like the rest of the vessel. I recon there would be a least 1.5 litres about the offtake valve, but yes I agree it is a bit low. I figure the worst that can happen is I empty the trub out of the bottom, then run a bit out the offtake valve to make sure its free of any trub, then bottle. So the theory has it.


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## schooey (16/6/09)

Cool, no worries. I guess you'd just be wanting to keep an eye on the silicone seal, it's notorious for losing it's bond and lifting at the edge a little. Great place for nasties to hide. Good luck with it, keep us posted


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## dabre4 (24/6/09)

Just a quick update for anyone intersted. Tested it for 48 hours, no leaks detected. Put my first brew in about a week ago and just did my first dump of the yeast. I opened the vavle quite quickly and the trub oozed out quite slowly until it blew out the rest and became clear. So far a great succes. So so so much easier, quicker and cleaner then transfering to a secondary vessle.


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## Cocko (24/6/09)

Good work doog!

Are you using sink or sea water?  

Seriously, keep us posted mate... nice form!


:icon_cheers:


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## Justin (25/6/09)

Certainly creatively made and would have been fun to build I'm sure. Looks cool.

Unfortunately I'll have to go with Schooey on my worries with the silicone. It's just a horrible thing to try and clean and I've always seen it lift at the edges and get nice and funky and impossible to clean. Even when you think it's smooth it never is, which you usually find out when it gets a little dirty and you then see the pockets and creases. It's also too soft to really scrub it properly when it does start to get a bit ugly. Pretty much everything I've seen with a smear of silicone eventually ends this way (you should see my bathroom, someone went to town with silcone in there and it's just a nasty mess-apparently it can replace a good tiler and is a good substitute to grout). I really do think you are going to have an issue with sanitation either now or in the near future. If you could get the two pieces welded together somehow that would be a much nice option or maybe an epoxy that you can get a true smooth seal with but it's going to lack flexiblity and the fact they are different plastics might make fusing them tough. Then you still have the silicone down with the valve at the bottom to worry about next, hope you have long arms LOL . My litte stumps wouldn't reach 

But anyway, looks like it was fun to make. Hope you have good luck with it.
Justin


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## dabre4 (25/6/09)

Justin said:


> Certainly creatively made and would have been fun to build I'm sure. Looks cool.
> 
> Unfortunately I'll have to go with Schooey on my worries with the silicone. It's just a horrible thing to try and clean and I've always seen it lift at the edges and get nice and funky and impossible to clean. Even when you think it's smooth it never is, which you usually find out when it gets a little dirty and you then see the pockets and creases. It's also too soft to really scrub it properly when it does start to get a bit ugly. Pretty much everything I've seen with a smear of silicone eventually ends this way (you should see my bathroom, someone went to town with silcone in there and it's just a nasty mess-apparently it can replace a good tiler and is a good substitute to grout). I really do think you are going to have an issue with sanitation either now or in the near future. If you could get the two pieces welded together somehow that would be a much nice option or maybe an epoxy that you can get a true smooth seal with but it's going to lack flexiblity and the fact they are different plastics might make fusing them tough. Then you still have the silicone down with the valve at the bottom to worry about next, hope you have long arms LOL . My litte stumps wouldn't reach
> 
> ...



Yeah, I always knew that the silicone would never last. This is more an experiment then anything, and if I get one good brew from it i'm happy. Just testing to see if its worth the extra dosh for a proper conical fermented........and in my opinion HELL YEAH! Or maybe I need to make friends with a metal turner and get one made up....... hmmm, future project coming up.


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## kegpig (25/6/09)

instead of silicone get it plastic welded ,everything is plastic these days and there are alot of people repairing bumper bars etc and cheap


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## Georgedgerton (25/6/09)

Doog, hate to sound negative but the silicone thing is bound to be a problem. Some time back I experimented with a SS fermenter that had a few silicone joints and couldn't stop infection problems. Also know others who have had similar experiences.


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## Cocko (25/6/09)

Plastic weld is the ONLY option...


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## schooey (25/6/09)

I don't think so, unless they have made some quantum leap in technology with it. When welding, the filler rod that is used to fuse the two plastics together leaves a nice little crevice (above and underneath) for bugs to live in.... Not trying to be the devil's advocate, just trying to save someone the hassle.

I like your thinking on the try before you buy, doog, and if you had them there doing nothing it's not like it's a big cost to see if you really want to spend the money on a good quality SS conical


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## Cocko (26/6/09)

Cant you buy a pre-made plastic conical?!?


I have searched to no avail but am sure they are out there!!


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## roger mellie (26/6/09)

Cocko said:


> Cant you buy a pre-made plastic conical?!?
> 
> 
> I have searched to no avail but am sure they are out there!!



I think Asher uses one of these

http://www.rotamoulding.com.au/Cone_Tanks.htm

RM


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## Justin (26/6/09)

I feel like I just keep poohahing all these suggestions, not my intent honestly. But the plastic conicals linked to above (http://www.rotamoulding.com.au/Cone_Tanks.htm) look like a pretty shallow cone. If I recall the figures correctly the ideal angle of the cone needs to be around 60 degrees to get the desired effect.

Before I placed an order for the ones linked above I'd try to get the dimentions so you can work out the cone angle. I'm really not too sure of how essential it is but it makes sense to me as you want and need the yeast to accumulate in the bottom of the cone. Not enough angle and they'll sit on the sides of the cone. 

These are the commecial made ones, not sure if available in Aus.
http://www.minibrew.com/index.php?main_pag...dex&cPath=5


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## gava (26/6/09)

noobie here.. whats the advantages of a conical fermenter?


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## Supra-Jim (26/6/09)

Yeast haversting is one of the main advantages. Allows you to drop trub/yeast out of the bottom valve without dropping any sweet sweet beer. Generally they have a rotating racking arm to allow you to rack out your beer without disturbing the sediment/trub.

Oh and most importantly the stainless ones look REALLY cool!!! B) 

Cheers SJ


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## praxis178 (9/9/10)

Ok so I'm thinking of heading down this road just with a detour down SS alley first....

2x19L Big W stock pots ($27ea last time I looked)
1x300mm SS funnel (eBay) ($52delivered)
2x pipe nipples (size yet to be determined)
2x three piece ball valves (have some 1" bore ones, and one 3/4"bore, probably a bit big for this though)

A shit load of DIY TIG welding

Misc bolts and nuts, plus some 1" square tube for the legs.

The above would get you an ~50L conical for ~$150 and a weekend's worth of work.

So the question is: is the 304SS of the pots ok at 0.5mm 0.25mm thickness or am I asking for trouble when welding (mostly done 0.9-3mm stuff), and will it be strong enough to support it's own weight via a three leg config?

And are 1" through bore ball valves too big? The pipe nipples would end up being 2"NPT ones, gut feel is it's too big, and the yeast cake is likely to tunnel when you go to dump the lees.

Otherwise I'll hunt up some 1/2bsp ones (maybe a 3/4" for the lees dump valve).....

Right back to my sketching.

Edit: corrected measurements and such.


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## praxis178 (10/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> Ok so I'm thinking of heading down this road just with a detour down SS alley first....
> 
> 2x19L Big W stock pots ($27ea last time I looked)
> 1x300mm SS funnel (eBay) ($52delivered)
> ...




Update.....

Pots x2: $19.50ea <check>
3/4" ball valve ($1.5/kg scrap price 8 years ago) <check>
6xM6x40mm bolts plus wing nuts $14.70 <check>
1/2" ball valve $31.90 <in the mail>
300mm funnel $53.00 <in the mail>
SS Toe nipples $13.90 (1 1/4"), $8.40 (1/2") <in the mail>
20mm SQ SS tube (price tbd) <on back order>

Guess next weekend I get to do some sparkly stuff!


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## Back Yard Brewer (10/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> So the question is: is the 304SS of the pots ok at 0.5mm 0.25mm thickness or am I asking for trouble when welding (mostly done 0.9-3mm stuff), and will it be strong enough to support it's own weight via a three leg config?




Unless you are an above average welder you may have issues welding something that thin. I have muddled around a fair bit when I built my brewery and found welding the thin gear can create havic. Practice, practice, practice.......

BYB


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (10/9/10)

kegpig said:


> instead of silicone get it plastic welded ,everything is plastic these days and there are alot of people repairing bumper bars etc and cheap






Cocko said:


> Plastic weld is the ONLY option...



I think plastic welding is a brilliant idea, just get the same or compatible filler rod as the materials u are welding/soldering. The funnel might be PVC, but the fermenter is something else. tell ur plastic fabrication supplier what u r doing, they should help u out!




schooey said:


> I don't think so, unless they have made some quantum leap in technology with it. When welding, the filler rod that is used to fuse the two plastics together leaves a nice little crevice (above and underneath) for bugs to live in.... Not trying to be the devil's advocate, just trying to save someone the hassle.
> 
> I like your thinking on the try before you buy, doog, and if you had them there doing nothing it's not like it's a big cost to see if you really want to spend the money on a good quality SS conical



I disagree with this, the plastic welding (PET, NYLON, HDPE & TEFLON) i have done doesnt leave the little undercut or crevace (unless its bloody microscopic) but leaves a nice little radius at the bottom of the seam. If u do come across an undercut or a crevace, turn down ur temperature. I have welded plastic components for the food industry, and none have been rejected or failed during quality control.



Thomas J. said:


> Ok so I'm thinking of heading down this road just with a detour down SS alley first....
> 
> 2x19L Big W stock pots ($27ea last time I looked)
> 1x300mm SS funnel (eBay) ($52delivered)
> ...





Back Yard Brewer said:


> Unless you are an above average welder you may have issues welding something that thin. I have muddled around a fair bit when I built my brewery and found welding the thin gear can create havic. Practice, practice, practice.......
> 
> BYB



All i can say is weld fast and at low enough amps. *IF* the pots are cheap enough for u, maybe get a third one and do a heap of practise runs. get ur settings right, so u dont have heaps of blow throughs and stuff ur chance at a good conical.

When u have a bbq with ur mates and show off ur brewery, u can say "yep, this took me a couple of hours to knock 2gether"...... h34r: 

I have welded my vessels with a mig, ss wire of coarse! keep an eye out on the forum for my herms setup when i post it up! 

EDIT: SPELLING, AND FORGOT TO PUT STUFF IN!


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## praxis178 (10/9/10)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Unless you are an above average welder you may have issues welding something that thin. I have muddled around a fair bit when I built my brewery and found welding the thin gear can create havic. Practice, practice, practice.......
> 
> BYB



Yeah that is one of my main concerns, on the plus side just about all joins are lap style with the weld on the inside (so it can be ground down smooth). 

The ones that I feel will be most problematic are the thin wall to pipe nipple welds, getting enough heat into the nipples without slagging the rest of the fermenter will be fun..... :blink:


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## praxis178 (11/9/10)

_WALLACE_ said:


> I think plastic welding is a brilliant idea, just get the same or compatible filler rod as the materials u are welding/soldering. The funnel might be PVC, but the fermenter is something else. tell ur plastic fabrication supplier what u r doing, they should help u out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Will be on the look out, I hope my TIG will go low enough, but the min is 10amps, so will probably just have to make do. The bottom of the pots (have four) will yield the leg mounting gussets and plenty of scrap to practice on so hopefully by next weekend (when I should have all the parts in the one space) I'll have the hang of TSW (TIGing Thin Shit). :unsure: 

Right I'm off to cut up some pots!


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## praxis178 (11/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> Will be on the look out, I hope my TIG will go low enough, but the min is 10amps, so will probably just have to make do. The bottom of the pots (have four) will yield the leg mounting gussets and plenty of scrap to practice on so hopefully by next weekend (when I should have all the parts in the one space) I'll have the hang of TSW (TIGing Thin Shit). :unsure:
> 
> Right I'm off to cut up some pots!



Pot 'A' now fits pot 'B', giving a cylinder of ~40L volume, so with the conical bottom that should give me a maximum capacity of 47L and a safe working capacity of ~40L which is about what I need to do double batches, so now for the hard bit: waiting for parts to arrive.....


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## praxis178 (15/9/10)

So after much f*+k arsing around welding the scraps from pot A, I've decided that while I can weld it with reasonable consistency it's right at the cusp of the finest that my TIG will do, even at minimum the amps are a tad high, so I've ordered a piece of stainless steel sheet which a mate of mine will roll into a cylinder for me. Down side to that is the new material is 1.2mm which was the thinest the supplier had in stock, I could have gone thinner if I had wanted to buy a whole sheet.....

And today my funnel arrived OD 303mm, height 218mm wall thickness <grrrr> 0.55mm <grrrr>, still better than the pots, so I guess we'll see how things pan out welding 0.5 to 1.2mm as a butt weld. The finished fermenter should still take the original Big W stock pot lid as it's lid.


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## Malted (15/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> So after much f*+k arsing around welding the scraps from pot A, I've decided that while I can weld it with reasonable consistency it's right at the cusp of the finest that my TIG will do, even at minimum the amps are a tad high, so I've ordered a piece of stainless steel sheet which a mate of mine will roll into a cylinder for me. Down side to that is the new material is 1.2mm which was the thinest the supplier had in stock, I could have gone thinner if I had wanted to buy a whole sheet.....
> 
> And today my funnel arrived OD 303mm, height 218mm wall thickness <grrrr> 0.55mm <grrrr>, still better than the pots, so I guess we'll see how things pan out welding 0.5 to 1.2mm as a butt weld. The finished fermenter should still take the original Big W stock pot lid as it's lid.



I for one would like to see progress photos!


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## praxis178 (15/9/10)

Malted said:


> I for one would like to see progress photos!



Will see what I can do later today.....


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## praxis178 (15/9/10)

Progress shots....



Valves, the big one is 3/4" bore and will be the lees drain valve, the smaller is the same as the one that will be the racking valve, which should arrive in the morning.



Funnel on one of the pots (that now won't be used), you can see how seductively tempting it looks..... I get the sheet stock tomorrow arvo, and should have it rolled and ready to weld to the funnel by the weekend....

The bottomless pot to the left was going to be the top section of the tank's body, but is now just so much scrap. If anyone want to have a go at this project in it's original form I have a spare pot and you can have the bottomless one for nix (spare pot $19.90), and I'll give you the address on the funnel supplier, I reckon the required amps to TIG this thin shite would be in the 4-7 range so real low, probably wouldn't require filler rod either.

I'll take lots of photos as the project progresses this weekend (or not as the case maybe).


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## dug (15/9/10)

I wish I knew how to weld. Good luck :icon_cheers:


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## praxis178 (15/9/10)

dug said:


> I wish I knew how to weld. Good luck :icon_cheers:



It's one of those things I take for granted, I've been doing it since I was ~14, started with stick, then went and learnt fusion (forge welding) welding, then got myself a TIG setup and went to TAFE and did a welding course..... No expert, but my beads do look ok, now. :unsure:


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (15/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> It's one of those things I take for granted, I've been doing it since I was ~14, started with stick, then went and learnt fusion (forge welding) welding, then got myself a TIG setup and went to TAFE and did a welding course..... No expert, but my beads do look ok, now. :unsure:




Looking Good mate!


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## praxis178 (17/9/10)

Small update....

SS sheet stock is still flat and will remain so till next week (the joys of "mate will do it for for a few beers"), so while most of the parts are now here, still waiting for the 1" NPT pipe nipple, I'm at an imp's ars til either the sheet gets rolled or that nipple shows up.

So in a fit of semi inebriated boredom I welded on the 1/2 nipple for the racking valve last night, free advise to the uninitiated don't weld when drunk or distracted!





Probably my worst bit of welding since *before* I did the welding course, even burnt a hole in the thin shite funnel wall....


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## Gopha (17/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> So after much f*+k arsing around welding the scraps from pot A, I've decided that while I can weld it with reasonable consistency it's right at the cusp of the finest that my TIG will do, even at minimum the amps are a tad high, so I've ordered a piece of stainless steel sheet which a mate of mine will roll into a cylinder for me. Down side to that is the new material is 1.2mm which was the thinest the supplier had in stock, I could have gone thinner if I had wanted to buy a whole sheet.....
> 
> And today my funnel arrived OD 303mm, height 218mm wall thickness <grrrr> 0.55mm <grrrr>, still better than the pots, so I guess we'll see how things pan out welding 0.5 to 1.2mm as a butt weld. The finished fermenter should still take the original Big W stock pot lid as it's lid.


You may wont to have a look at this product, if you are not doing a gas purge on the back of the weld. I have used it and its brilliant - Cheers
http://www.solarflux.com/Pages/Productinfo.html
P.S. Doesn't solve the thin metal problem, but it sure beats the sugary back of a weld


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## praxis178 (17/9/10)

Gopha said:


> You may wont to have a look at this product, if you are not doing a gas purge on the back of the weld. I have used it and its brilliant - Cheers
> http://www.solarflux.com/Pages/Productinfo.html
> P.S. Doesn't solve the thin metal problem, but it sure beats the sugary back of a weld



The type B stuff sounds like silica flour, boric acid (low temp binder that is also a kind of flux) and spirit carrier, mostly being boric acid based on the MSDS percentages. Still easier to buy a tub than brew my own....

Thanks for the link! :icon_cheers: 

Mostly I just grind that sugary shite off at the post welding clean up, but if I can save some time and effort, what's the loss?


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## hirns (17/9/10)

Interesting thread Thomas

I've been contemplating the use of two of the 19L Big W S/S pots to make a cheap boiler. I was going cut the base off one and them stack them to make a 38L ish boiler. As the metal is so thin I was going to use a spot welder to fix the two together (as the handles are spot welded on). However, rather than then welding them to seal, I was then going to use silver or lead free plumbers solder to sweat the two together. The solder seams are obviously easy to clean and polish up. 



Cheers :chug: 


Hirns


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## praxis178 (17/9/10)

hirns said:


> Interesting thread Thomas
> 
> I've been contemplating the use of two of the 19L Big W S/S pots to make a cheap boiler. I was going cut the base off one and them stack them to make a 38L ish boiler. As the metal is so thin I was going to use a spot welder to fix the two together (as the handles are spot welded on). However, rather than then welding them to seal, I was then going to use silver or lead free plumbers solder to sweat the two together. The solder seams are obviously easy to clean and polish up.
> 
> ...



Too bad you're not closer, got a spare pot and one that is bottomless and re-worked to fit the other pot ~1cm below the lip.....

Do still have the box the funnel came in which would fit the two pots if you're interested, cost plus postage maybe?

I did think about soldering, but discounted it as valves tend to get abused a bit and while soldering is strong, I don't know how long it would put up with that and keep the beer inside the vessel, but for a boiler/kettle should work well.


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## hirns (17/9/10)

:chug:


Thomas J. said:


> Too bad you're not closer, got a spare pot and one that is bottomless and re-worked to fit the other pot ~1cm below the lip.....
> 
> Do still have the box the funnel came in which would fit the two pots if you're interested, cost plus postage maybe?
> 
> I did think about soldering, but discounted it as valves tend to get abused a bit and while soldering is strong, I don't know how long it would put up with that and keep the beer inside the vessel, but for a boiler/kettle should work well.



Yeah, aggree.. for the valves etc I would be welding(or using weldless), but for simple (and clean) joint sealing I would think that the silver solder(can't remember melting point) with the spot weld re-inforcement would do the job very safely(no one wants a 100C wort shower if the soldering fails).

Cheers
Hirns


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## hirns (23/9/10)

Thomas, meant to ask you how did you cut the bottom off the pot without tearing/warping the metal too much to weld to the other pot? 

Cheers :beer: 

Hirns


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## praxis178 (23/9/10)

hirns said:


> Thomas, meant to ask you how did you cut the bottom off the pot without tearing/warping the metal too much to weld to the other pot?
> 
> Cheers :beer:
> 
> ...


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (24/9/10)

Photos???


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## yardy (24/9/10)

Thomas J. said:


> Small update....
> 
> SS sheet stock is still flat and will remain so till next week (the joys of "mate will do it for for a few beers"), so while most of the parts are now here, still waiting for the 1" NPT pipe nipple, I'm at an imp's ars til either the sheet gets rolled or that nipple shows up.
> 
> ...




what filler wire did you use ?

Dave


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## praxis178 (29/9/10)

Progress shot:



Picked up the rolled tube yesterday, and having the day off I figured I might as well spend it on brew related fun, so I welded it up, then welded on the funnel which already had all it's fittings fitted (that Solar Flux is GREAT stuff!).

Still need to clean up the welds and make up the legs and some sort of lid as the tube is a bit smaller than the pots were so those glass lid(s) won't fit anymore.

So with a bit of luck should be able to put a double down come the weekend in my newest fermenter! :super: 

Tech specs for those that want them:
wall thickness: 1.2mm (cone 0.5mm)
bottom valve: 3/4" bore
racking valve: 1/2"
volume: ~49L brim full (needs to be confirmed once finished)

Welding gear etc: TIG using standard argon shielding gas and 1.6mm 316 filler rods as required (6 used to this point and not much more welding to be done really).....


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## praxis178 (2/10/10)

Progress shot:




So today I whacked the legs on and put some crude but effective plugs on the valve outs and filled her up with water, only two small leaks, one I can't "see" but for the water drip and the other became obvious, like slap your forehead obvious, with the application of 48L of water.

So after I fix those in the morning, mount the valves and buy some more cling film (looks like I'm going over to the dark side, bye bye airlock) for a lid it will be ready for a test brew....

One thing I learnt, 0.35mm SS sheet is NOT nice stuff to play with let a lone weld! If I do this again I'll do it the easy way, stump up $900 and buy the damn thing ready to go!


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## hockadays (3/10/10)

not a bad effort at all thomas. How are the welds after grinding on the inside? total cost?


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## praxis178 (3/10/10)

hockadays said:


> not a bad effort at all thomas. How are the welds after grinding on the inside? total cost?




Thanks, 

The internal welds are <cough> crap, but that's mainly cause I can't reach (should have done it in two 300mm long cylinders) and see at the same time. So sanitary they ain't, but if I'm militant on my sanitation it should be ok.

Total cost $330 inc the gas and the pots I didn't use.....


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## FNQ Bunyip (3/10/10)

will make a nice grain silo in the end .. I don't want too seem to down on you Thomas , but I recon you will have infections set in eventualy if the welds are not at least smooth as ..

I like your optermissim though and wish you all the best with it ..

I have had a few attempts at the tig sofar , and while some of it is good , I'm not ready too take the jump and say it s good enough to ferment in , and I'm not on that thin stuff , lol , realy need a good work shop and not just in a carport , lots and lots of gas to purge heavely from the inside ect ect ...

great stuff and good luck with again , 

cheers


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## MattC (3/10/10)

That looks like a pretty good job there TJ. How will you be addressing temp control, does it fit in a fridge or do you have some other idea to control temp for another side project, like a glycol jacket???

cheers


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## Thirsty Boy (3/10/10)

FNQ Bunyip said:


> will make a nice grain silo in the end .. I don't want too seem to down on you Thomas , but I recon you will have infections set in eventualy if the welds are not at least smooth as ..
> 
> I like your optermissim though and wish you all the best with it ..
> 
> ...



Not necessarily

If it were a commercial unit and big... yeah, of course. But in a home sized unit all he has to do is occasionally fill it up with boiling water; and drop in a heat stick (or work something out with a burner) to keep it boiling in there for a while.

Bugs might be able to hide in bad welds and seals from sanitising agent.. but they can't hide from heat.

A bit more effort is going to be needed with this than a "properly" welded unit, but as long as he's aware of the issue and takes steps to address it, there is no unavoidable reason it needs to be more infection prone than any other fermenter.

TB


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## praxis178 (3/10/10)

MattC said:


> That looks like a pretty good job there TJ. How will you be addressing temp control, does it fit in a fridge or do you have some other idea to control temp for another side project, like a glycol jacket???
> 
> cheers



Fits my fermentation fridge, although I had (in a moment of insanity) thought about hacking up one of the pots to make a glycol jacket panel, decided sticking it in the fridge as originally planned was saner.....


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## praxis178 (3/10/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Not necessarily
> 
> If it were a commercial unit and big... yeah, of course. But in a home sized unit all he has to do is occasionally fill it up with boiling water; and drop in a heat stick (or work something out with a burner) to keep it boiling in there for a while.
> 
> ...



Ironically that is exactly what I have planned, the bottom valve (which has to be removed for proper sanitation anyway) is sized such that with a 1" BSP muff I can screw in a standard hot-water system heating element and so boil the crap out of the lower half (the vertical seam is smooth as, only the bottom to wall seam isn't smooth), figure 1/2hr at 100C or so should do the trick.


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## unrealeous (3/10/10)

Thomas J. said:


> Fits my fermentation fridge, although I had (in a moment of insanity) thought about hacking up one of the pots to make a glycol jacket panel, decided sticking it in the fridge as originally planned was saner.....


Forget a glycol jacket - a fridge is cheaper, far more efficient and after seeing your welds...  10 points for effort though

The only issue with a fridge is that a stainless fermenter with 45 litres of beer weighs about 60kgs. Now those of you who know me would know how strong and handsome I am, but I can't get lift a 60 kg fermenter into my fridge full without snapping a vertebrae. The solution was to buy a 7m hose so I can fill directly from the kettle inside the house into the fermenter.


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## Thirsty Boy (3/10/10)

Thomas J. said:


> Ironically that is exactly what I have planned, the bottom valve (which has to be removed for proper sanitation anyway) is sized such that with a 1" BSP muff I can screw in a standard hot-water system heating element and so boil the crap out of the lower half (the vertical seam is smooth as, only the bottom to wall seam isn't smooth), figure 1/2hr at 100C or so should do the trick.



cool - handy that

I would be pessimistic however and assume that even your vertical your welds aren't as smooth as they should be and fill that puppy all the way up to the very top.

Also - boil it for longer than 30 mins. The whole point of needing to boil to get at stubborn hiding bugs - is that you are getting to bacteria that _cant be got at by sanitising solutions_ - so the water probably cant get to them either, so I would assume as a base point, that you are sterilising with "dry" heat rather than wet, so you need to kill with ambient temperature rather than contact with boiling water. That's less effective and takes longer.

30mins is probably good enough ... but I would err on the side of paranoia if it were me.

TB


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## jakub76 (3/10/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> fill that puppy all the way up to the very top.



Surely half an hour of steam would effectively kill all the nasties without having to use 50 litre of water and wait hours for it to get to a boil.


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## FNQ Bunyip (3/10/10)

Thats probly going too work , so why not just add an a couple more sockets fit elements and do the boil in there as well ,, whirlpool , dump trub , chill , add yeasties and ferment ... 

cheers


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## praxis178 (3/10/10)

FNQ Bunyip said:


> Thats probly going too work , so why not just add an a couple more sockets fit elements and do the boil in there as well ,, whirlpool , dump trub , chill , add yeasties and ferment ...
> 
> cheers



'Cause then I'd have to do the boil in my ferm-fridge! Not a bad idea if the "pot" has a cooling jacket though. And like you I can't move 60kg without needing a week in traction afterwards.....


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## praxis178 (3/10/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> cool - handy that
> 
> I would be pessimistic however and assume that even your vertical your welds aren't as smooth as they should be and fill that puppy all the way up to the very top.
> 
> ...



Yeah 3KW element running for 2-3hrs is only going to cost me 34-51cents (IIRC my power is $0.17/KWH) verses $60plus of grain and hops etc. bit of no brainer really....

Well next week it's test time, a simple SMASH is probably the go.


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## Thirsty Boy (3/10/10)

jakub76 said:


> Surely half an hour of steam would effectively kill all the nasties without having to use 50 litre of water and wait hours for it to get to a boil.



if there was a lid that'd do... but I understood there to be no lid????

And even if there is a lid - while steam would certainly do the heating work- its still a case of _assuming_ dry heat rather than steam in the bits that matter. So yep, I agree, if you had a lid you could save a bit of heating up time and energy by not filling it all the way up, but you'd still want to play it a bit safer with the working time for sanitation.

Have a look at this

http://www.engenderhealth.org/ip/instrum/inm11.html

Now this situation is different in that heat doesn't have to penetrate a bundle of wrapped equipment, and we are talking sanitiszing not strerilizing -- but with dry heat you really do need much longer than wet heat, and the temperature in this case is even lower than anything in teh range quoted in this article.

So I'd be boiling for at least an hour and maybe two.

Not every time he uses the fermenter - just every now and again to make sure that things that collect and lurk in micro gaps in the welds get taken care of before they build up to problematic levels.

TB


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## black_labb (3/10/10)

a blowtorch along the weld lines (from the outside) could aid other sanitation methods, but it looks like you have it sorted using steam.


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## praxis178 (4/10/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> if there was a lid that'd do... but I understood there to be no lid????
> 
> And even if there is a lid - while steam would certainly do the heating work- its still a case of _assuming_ dry heat rather than steam in the bits that matter. So yep, I agree, if you had a lid you could save a bit of heating up time and energy by not filling it all the way up, but you'd still want to play it a bit safer with the working time for sanitation.
> 
> ...



Oh yeah, made a nice discovery last night, a Big W 19L pot neatly (smooth sliding fit) fits over the top of the fermenter, so looks like I now have an OK lid option, not long term storage OK, but sanitation/fermentation OK.... right back to the grind stone.


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## praxis178 (7/10/10)

Had a thought, might be a good idea to pickle the welds, so with that in mind, anyone know where I can get my hands on about 2tablespoons worth of SS pickle gel? Or some places where I might ask on the Sunshine Coast?

Seems a bit wasteful to buy a 1kg tub just to do ~1.5m worth of weld seams.....


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