# You Can Buy Anything On Ebay



## RedDwarf (9/4/08)

what the ?. This guy has some balls.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Home-Brew-Coopers-L...DVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ
ViewItem

$11 a carton. Hmmm, I wonder if its AG? Doubt it.


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## Steve (9/4/08)

RedDwarf said:


> what the ?. This guy has some balls.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Home-Brew-Coopers-L...DVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ
> ViewItem
> ...



you cant buy beer....it'll be pulled off soon enough


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## devo (9/4/08)

hahaha classic :lol:


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## microbe (9/4/08)

Poor guy getting rid of it for health reasons. It will get pulled though.

Cheers,

microbe


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## KillerRx4 (9/4/08)

I sold some full bottles on ebay some time ago. They were part of a batch of 100 odd bottles, they were advertised as empty bottles but description detailed that some were full (maybe 50 odd) & could be emptied if buyer prefered.

Buyer was happy to consume them though :lol: 

I dont think ebay will give a rats unless complaints are lodged.


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## mfdes (9/4/08)

I'd be more concerned about the Excise people than ebay. The penalties for selling homebrew are pretty severe.
MFS


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

I wonder if the Tax Office checks eBay out......

Could be a very expesnsive sale with not much profit...


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## chovain (9/4/08)

I hate to be a nanny, but I've lodged a complaint with NSW OLGR. Shits like that give us a bad name, and I hope they fine him. (Maximum penalty $5,000, 6 months imprisonment).


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## kevnlis (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> I hate to be a nanny, but I've lodged a complaint with NSW OLGR. Shits like that give us a bad name, and I hope they fine him. (Maximum penalty $5,000, 6 months imprisonment).



Thats a bit harsh! Do you think maybe you jumped the gun a bit? Perhaps an e-mail to him to see if he knew what he was doing was illegal? Perhaps he could have ended the auctions himself after being alerted to the potential illegal sale he was trying to make? I dunno, but he has only offered them, hopefully the auction does not end before the coppers get to him!


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## captaincleanoff (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> I hate to be a nanny, but I've lodged a complaint with NSW OLGR. Shits like that give us a bad name, and I hope they fine him. (Maximum penalty $5,000, 6 months imprisonment).



just a bit excessive...


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## Fatgodzilla (9/4/08)

> Mark Chovain Posted Today, 03:18 PM
> I hate to be a nanny, but I've lodged a complaint with NSW OLGR. Shits like that give us a bad name, and I hope they fine him. (Maximum penalty $5,000, 6 months imprisonment).


 

Tough love. But you are right.




kevnlis said:


> Thats a bit harsh! Do you think maybe you jumped the gun a bit? Perhaps an e-mail to him to see if he knew what he was doing was illegal? Perhaps he could have ended the auctions himself after being alerted to the potential illegal sale he was trying to make? I dunno, but he has only offered them, hopefully the auction does not end before the coppers get to him!



Wouldn't worry, doubt the OLGR would bother doing anything about it anyway. This is NSW, they are probably still at lunch. Sent him an email earlier today but no response. Bloke's obviously a dill so wouldn't waste any more time or thinking process on him.


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

I would bet that he knows it illegall, same as selling tobabco. 

I am with Mark on this one......why should that [email protected] spoil it or all of us


Tax Office might be interested.....


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## captaincleanoff (9/4/08)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I would bet that he knows it illegall, same as selling tobabco.
> 
> I am with Mark on this one......why should that [email protected] spoil it or all of us
> 
> ...



spoil what? What do you think is going to happen? They are going to make homebrewing illegal because of one illegal eBay listing?


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> spoil what? What do you think is going to happen? They are going to make homebrewing illegal because of one illegal eBay listing?



It starts with just one person......then others go...wow, I can make money out of this.....


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## captaincleanoff (9/4/08)

people have also auctioned their anal viriginity on ebay...


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> people have also auctioned their anal viriginity on ebay...




MMmmm....dont think I would admit to knowing that, and why......sort of says something about yourself.....


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## petesbrew (9/4/08)

What kind of beer is it?


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## razz (9/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> people have also auctioned their anal viriginity on ebay...


How much did it go for ?


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## randyrob (9/4/08)

> people have also auctioned their anal viriginity on ebay...



how do you post something like that?


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## chovain (9/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> spoil what? What do you think is going to happen? They are going to make homebrewing illegal because of one illegal eBay listing?



All it takes is some old bitty going to the papers and saying, "Look, these homebrew people are selling alcohol unchecked. Think of the children!" You may be overestimating our reputation with the rest of the community: To them, we are a bunch of bogans trying to save a buck, and getting around paying excise like everyone else, based on some little loophole.

As a community, it is our _duty_ to stop people who flaunt the illegal side of this hobby. Anyone who tries to sell brewery kegs online gets what they deserve. Anyone who sells their homebrew in public ought to be fined, and shunned by the community: that's not us.

Edit: And people who sell their beer in private (yeah, I'm talking about the "donation jar on the fridge" people) should have a long hard look at themselves.


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## captaincleanoff (9/4/08)

the point I'm trying to make, is people sell allllll sorts of stupid stuff on eBay... That doesn't mean everyone is going to follow their example


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

next minute...Ray Martin is doing a special, and TodayTonight will run a 1/2 hr special tittled..Beer brewers flauting the law.....

Where is Alan Jones when you need him......


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## AndrewQLD (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> All it takes is some old bitty going to the papers and saying, "Look, these homebrew people are selling alcohol unchecked. Think of the children!" You may be overestimating our reputation with the rest of the community: To them, we are a bunch of bogans trying to save a buck, and getting around paying excise like everyone else, based on some little loophole.
> 
> As a community, it is our _duty_ to stop people who flaunt the illegal side of this hobby. Anyone who tries to sell brewery kegs online gets what they deserve. Anyone who sells their homebrew in public ought to be fined, and shunned by the community: that's not us.
> 
> Edit: And people who sell their beer in private (yeah, I'm talking about the "donation jar on the fridge" people) should have a long hard look at themselves.



Quite right Mark, however I think what some people are saying is you could have voiced your indignation differently, like perhaps notifying Ebay who would have removed the item immediately. Sadly I think you are drawing more attention to his sale than he did :lol: .

Cheers
Andrew


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> the point I'm trying to make, is people sell allllll sorts of stupid stuff on eBay... That doesn't mean everyone is going to follow their example




It started with 1 Person selling stupid stuff onj eBay.....now look at how many are doing it....


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## schooey (9/4/08)

Some arseclown in Perth is selling his whole life. House, job, friends, car, jetski, the whole shebang...


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

schooey said:


> Some arseclown in Perth is selling his whole life. House, job, friends, car, jetski, the whole shebang...




Swap him a crate of homebrew, but keep the stolen milk crate :lol:


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## chovain (9/4/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Quite right Mark, however I think what some people are saying is you could have voiced your indignation differently, like perhaps notifying Ebay who would have removed the item immediately. Sadly I think you are drawing more attention to his sale than he did :lol: .



Yep, but only among our isolated community, and potentially the OLGR. OLGR isn't going to recommend law changes based on an isolated incident. In fact they're likely to see it as self-policing to some extent (homebrewers are willing to dob people like that in).

Edit: And if some old bitty sees the ebay item now and kicks up a fuss, we'll have this thread as evidence that we can police ourselves.


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## kevnlis (9/4/08)

I am perfectly happy to swap HB for HB, or even HB for commercial beer. I see nothing wrong with doing that, and am not sure there is a law prohibiting it?

I do agree that people selling or in any way collecting money for HB should be ashamed, I was just pointing out that there may have been other things to try before dobbing him in.


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## EK (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> All it takes is some old bitty going to the papers and saying, "Look, these homebrew people are selling alcohol unchecked. Think of the children!" You may be overestimating our reputation with the rest of the community: To them, we are a bunch of bogans trying to save a buck, and getting around paying excise like everyone else, based on some little loophole.
> 
> As a community, it is our _duty_ to stop people who flaunt the illegal side of this hobby. Anyone who tries to sell brewery kegs online gets what they deserve. Anyone who sells their homebrew in public ought to be fined, and shunned by the community: that's not us.
> 
> Edit: And people who sell their beer in private (yeah, I'm talking about the "donation jar on the fridge" people) should have a long hard look at themselves.



True, the "think of the children" crowd do tend to over-react like that. Putting a bloke up for (potentially) a $5000 fine and 6 months jail is a bit harsh though, however, I think it is more likely that he would get a small fine as opposed to the maximum. 

While it is in our interests to stop such people, I wouldn't want home brewers to also be known as a pack of harsh bastards touting a civic _duty_ to be done as well as being a "bunch of bogans dodging excise". That would be worse. Perhaps notifying ebay of the illegality of such a sale would have been more appropriate?

Anyone selling stolen brewery kegs should be reported as this is a case of home brewers getting a bad name from thievery (as well as the person involved being a thief). The question then must be asked: are the milk crates (that this beer in the ebay auction appears in) themselves stolen? If so, then this guy probably should be reported to the relevant authorities. Such thefts push up the price of many items that pack supermarket and bottle-shop shelves.

At the end of the day you have to live up to your own sense of right and wrong, at least Mark had the guts to do something...I might have just passed it by without thinking of the possible ramifications to the hobby which we all enjoy.

anyhow...just my 5c.

EK


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## the_fuzz (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> Yep, but only among our isolated community, and potentially the OLGR. OLGR isn't going to recommend law changes based on an isolated incident. In fact they're likely to see it as self-policing to some extent (homebrewers are willing to dob people like that in).
> 
> Edit: And if some old bitty sees the ebay item now and kicks up a fuss, we'll have this thread as evidence that we can police ourselves.



<Start Rant>

I actually think you live in a fantasy land - 

A ) You actually think the OLGR are going to respond to your complaint
B ) You actually think old ladies troll through ebay looking at Home Brew items and then will complain about beer.........
C ) You actually think the OLGR is going to go "Oh, yay the HB community is policing everything for us, yay, they are so good, I mean that one guy would have sold some beer to some guy which really could have caused WWIII - thank Christ for Mark, he saved the world".

I actually cannot believe you really did this and then you even have a go at people who have a donation jar - you are demented. If someone is giving someone a lift and asks for petrol money, do you report them for not having a Taxi License? I also assume that you do not wash your HB equipment with tap water or if you do only on Sundays and Wednesday Nights - otherwise, I'm going to have to report you to the Water Wasters Police - I also hope that you do not download anything that you shouldn't as this give us IT geeks a bad name, thus I will have to report you............ HTFU

You are the one bring a bad name to the community with your Police State....

I think people have some kind of weird perception of the world we live in :blink: strange, really strange

</End Rant>


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## chovain (9/4/08)

EK said:


> True, the "think of the children" crowd do tend to over-react like that. Putting a bloke up for (potentially) a $5000 fine and 6 months jail is a bit harsh though, however, I think it is more likely that he would get a small fine as opposed to the maximum.


They absolutely wouldn't give someone a fine of more than a couple of hundred bucks for selling 6 crates of beer on eBay. That's reserved for the people who keep doing it after being convicted of it, or who are selling hugely commercial quantities.



EK said:


> Anyone selling stolen brewery kegs should be reported as this is a case of home brewers getting a bad name from thievery (as well as the person involved being a thief). The question then must be asked: are the milk crates (that this beer in the ebay auction appears in) themselves stolen? If so, then this guy probably should be reported to the relevant authorities. Such thefts push up the price of many items that pack supermarket and bottle-shop shelves.



At the end of the day, alternatives for all this stolen stuff exist. You can buy 50L kegs legally. You can buy milk crates new. People are just being cheap or lazy when they take them from the side of the road. We're not talking about stealing a loaf of bread to feed the family here: We're talking about taking a $100 keg, or a $15 crate to support a hobby. It might seem to some like they're just taking it from "the man", but I suspect they'd see it differently if it were their car's hub cap, or their letter box.


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## kevnlis (9/4/08)

> C'mon people. The guy is doing something illegal. He gets what he deserves.
> With all the attention that's being shown to binge drinking etc, it's actually feasible that some wowser will say"lets take a look at these homebrew laws" and HELLO, here comes some dickhead with a bill to go through parliament while no-one's looking.......
> I agree with Mark, people who unthinkingly do stupid things sometimes shine a very crooked light on the rest of us - when the rest of us are doing nothing wrong........what would we all do if the govt decided that the easiest way to stamp out that sort of thing would be to disallow the process or item that makes it possible...it happens every day.....semi automatic rifles as an example......of the massive numbers of legitimate gun owners across the country, they all lose out because of one or two people who have in the past lost the plot and gone on a rampage......so it gets blamed on the gun (the homebrew) and not the idiot behind it......and the govt then thinks that there will be no more shootings because if you have to operate a bolt action it will of course be too much trouble..............pfffffffttttttttt.....
> If we don't self police it will be done by someone else with less of an understanding and even less care.



I wonder if guns are a fair comparison? Could they really police HB even if they wanted? It would cost them more to try to stop people than they could ever lose to "tip jars" and dodgy deals in back alleys.

EDIT: Removed the name of the poster because they deleted the post.


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## domonsura (9/4/08)

Yes, but WWWH, little old biddys DO kick up a stink about this sort of stuff and screw up our social liberties every day. There are people in govt that DO take that approach to things.....and sometimes when that machine gets moving it can be hard to stop.
I agree with Mark in some respects. The guy on eBay was offering to sell grog illegaly. End of story. I make no comparisons to donation jars even though I don't agree with them either, but the fact is that what he was doing was illegal, and he deserves to get his ass kicked for it, because sometimes we DO all lose rights & priviledges because of one damned idiot doing the wrong thing........semi-auto rifles....laser pointers...........riding bikes without helmets.........the world is not what it used to be, that's for sure.


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## domonsura (9/4/08)

hehe kevinlis, I went for the full edit, you were too quick  (That post was mine everyone, I just thought I had a better way of putting it). The gun analogy wasn't entirely appropriate I suppose, but it is an example of what happens when social critics & govt get hold of something. (And something that annoys me, because I don't think having a bolt action would slow _me_ down enough to make a difference to the people at the receiving end....so it's one of those stupid rule changes that makes no difference to the end result)
Selling homebrew is illegal. It's one of the conditions that was placed on us being allowed to do it in the first place. The definition of 'sale' may be flexible to some, but in the ebay guy case it's quite clear that it is a sale not a donation jar. And stuff like that does get attention, just last month 60 minutes was spotlighting sale of stolen and counterfit property on eBay. All it takes is someone with nothing better to do to introduce a bill for legislative change to the homebrew laws..........


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## AndrewQLD (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> They absolutely wouldn't give someone a fine of more than a couple of hundred bucks for selling 6 crates of beer on eBay. That's reserved for the people who keep doing it after being convicted of it, or who are selling hugely commercial quantities.
> 
> 
> 
> At the end of the day, alternatives for all this stolen stuff exist. You can buy 50L kegs legally. You can buy milk crates new. People are just being cheap or lazy when they take them from the side of the road. We're not talking about stealing a loaf of bread to feed the family here: We're talking about taking a $100 keg, or a $15 crate to support a hobby. It might seem to some like they're just taking it from "the man", but I suspect they'd see it differently if it were their car's hub cap, or their letter box.



At the end of the day there is no evidence that he stole the home brew so that argument is ridiculous.

If you feel it your civic duty to "Dob" someone in then so be it, but there were two places you could have done that, ebay and the OLGR. You chose the OLGR which just seems a little over the top, he wasn't starting up a brewery and selling barrels of the stuff you know, more than likely trying to off load a heap of bottles that happened to be full and thought it might sweeten the deal.

Andrew


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## EK (9/4/08)

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> <Start Rant>
> 
> I actually think you live in a fantasy land -
> 
> ...



Regarding B: I have seen people troll through ebay, the trading post even garage sales with nothing better to do than complain about such things...so yeah...it does happen.

I wasn't going to mention the "donation jar" thing, but you are right people asking for petrol money are in the same situation (legally speaking) and I would not look down upon that. However, if I invite people over to my place, it is known that the beer is complimentary. I'm not going to ask my mates to put in 50c (or whatever) for a stubby of HB, to me that's just petty crap. However, my mates would respect the fact that the beer is free and conduct themselves like a proper guest and not abuse it.

EK


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## kevnlis (9/4/08)

I am also against the tip jar or in any way selling HB, like I said I think trading it for other beer is fine. I also do not own a single milk crate or 50L keg. I paid fairly and own entirely everything in my brewery, I have a few friends and family members with whom I trade beers and we ALL freely give it to anyone that shows interest!

I often have gifts given to me, kits, malt, hops, sachets of dry yeast etc. I am always glad to receive them, but I would be just as happy to give people my beer if I did not!

I think in the end there are a few kinds of brewer. I am the type who is addicted to making beer and doesn't really drink it fast enough to keep up :lol: 

eBay does a good job of keeping dodgy things off their website. Perhaps if they were notified of the illegality of the sale of HB they would in the future be able to stop these listings themselves? This would eliminate much concern for everyone!


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## chovain (9/4/08)

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> A ) You actually think the OLGR are going to respond to your complaint


Yes. By law, they are obliged to.



Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> B ) You actually think old ladies troll through ebay looking at Home Brew items and then will complain about beer.........


Insert old lady, astute member of local church, parent of child who manages to buy a crate from someone. (Think of the children! ).



Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> C ) You actually think the OLGR is going to go "Oh, yay the HB community is policing everything for us, yay, they are so good, I mean that one guy would have sold some beer to some guy which really could have caused WWIII - thank Christ for Mark, he saved the world".


No, I was just countering the argument that I was raising the profile of the ebay item. OLGR couldn't care less if we police ourselves. OLGR doesn't even know that I'm a homebrewer.




Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> I actually cannot believe you really did this and then you even have a go at people who have a donation jar - you are demented.
> 
> If someone is giving someone a lift and asks for petrol money, do you report them for not having a Taxi License? I also assume that you do not wash your HB equipment with tap water or if you do only on Sundays and Wednesday Nights - otherwise, I'm going to have to report you to the Water Wasters Police - I also hope that you do not download anything that you shouldn't as this give us IT geeks a bad name, thus I will have to report you............ HTFU
> 
> You are the one bring a bad name to the community with your Police State....



I'm not breaking any water laws when I wash my homebrew gear. I'm not sure that requesting petrol money is illegal (I can't even find the relevant act), but if someone were driving around offering people lifts in return for money, then yeah, I'd happily report them. There's a reason taxi drivers and brewers are licensed. It's not some attempt by "the man" to control us.

The licensing laws are so intertwined in what we do. That we are exempt from them is a privilege, not a right: we have to respect them. It's nothing to do with a police state (at least look it up if you're going to throw the term around). If you're one of these people who think that laws are only put in to control us, and that _you_ should be able to download whatever the hell you like ("information want to be free, man!"), or water your garden 24 hours a day, or sell your beer, then you're the one who's demented.

For the record, I only said people with donation jars should take a good hard look at themselves, not that they (nor their friends) should dob them in. If I personally had a friend with a donation jar on their fridge, I'd just take my own beer along.

I couldn't give a shit about someone downloading a couple of episodes of Lost. _But the guy selling episodes of Lost...?_ That's another story.


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## Adric Hunter (9/4/08)

I agree that such blatent public selling of HB like what this bloke is doing is wrong and ought to be stoped, but grouping that in in the same category as a bit of low scale selling to your mates seems a bit simpleminded, i think the laws that surrond drinking in gerneral make little sence (eg wineries getting exise releif but brewies not) if someone wants to do some private out of site selling to thier mates to get around those stupid exisse laws, in reality it dosn't harm any one, well realy whats the problem?


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## tomtoro (9/4/08)

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> <Start Rant>
> 
> I actually think you live in a fantasy land -
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more. Some poor bloke is trying to get out of the homebrew game for medical reasons but can't see the point in tipping out his last batch of brew before selling the bottles. Trying to line him up for a massive fine and a conviction in my opinion is despicable. Should we then dob in all those who might accept a few bucks off their mates when they come round and drink all their brew watching the footy? What about all the people that each of us know using converted kegs as mush tuns? Larseny carries much stronger sentences than excise evasion.

For heavens sake, if Today Tonight wanted to do a special exposee on some of the bad things that homebrewing contributed to society then they'd have no shortage of things to include. They could even have a go at the risk to the community of taking dip tubes out of fire extinguishers. The thing is they could do a story on almost anything and put a bad spin on it. In fact, that's usually what they do. I'd suggest the main reason they wouldn't do a story about a guy selling his last 6 crates of HB bottles with beer included is because nobody cares. Including the OLGR i'd wager.

As others have already implied, and as i will reiterate here, I don't know a single person who has never pirated off the net, or kept the extra 5 bucks they got in change from a supermarket, or evaded at one time or another whatever tax or stamp duty they new they knew they could get away with evading. I seriously hope Mark C that you have never recorded a TV program and then fast forwarded through the adds, for if so I think your actions might be mistaken for hipocracy.


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## chovain (9/4/08)

kevnlis said:


> I am also against the tip jar or in any way selling HB, like I said I think trading it for other beer is fine. I also do not own a single milk crate or 50L keg. I paid fairly and own entirely everything in my brewery, I have a few friends and family members with whom I trade beers and we ALL freely give it to anyone that shows interest!



People often bring beers around to my place when they visit, too (more often when I'm running short on the homebrew ). The best thing is, it's normally unusual stuff. It saves me having to shop for it, at least.


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## Adric Hunter (9/4/08)

tomtoro said:


> As others have already implied, and as i will reiterate here, I don't know a single person who has never pirated off the net, or kept the extra 5 bucks they got in change from a supermarket, or evaded at one time or another whatever tax or stamp duty they new they knew they could get away with evading. I seriously hope Mark C that you have never recorded a TV program and then fast forwarded through the adds, for if so I think your actions might be mistaken as for hipocracy.



Good point we need to get realistic


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## chovain (9/4/08)

tomtoro said:


> As others have already implied, and as i will reiterate here, I don't know a single person who has never pirated off the net, or kept the extra 5 bucks they got in change from a supermarket, or evaded at one time or another whatever tax or stamp duty they new they knew they could get away with evading. I seriously hope Mark C that you have never recorded a TV program and then fast forwarded through the adds, for if so I think your actions might be mistaken as for hipocracy.



No, it's not hypocritical. I'm not going to dob in the guy who pirates something off the net. I'll sure as **** dob in the guy who sells his wares collection at a flea market though.

I'm not going to dob in the guy who steals a keg. You don't want to be the guy selling a stolen keg with me around though.

I'm sure I break a dozen laws every day; but I don't flaunt them.


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## chovain (9/4/08)

tomtoro said:


> Trying to line him up for a massive fine and a conviction in my opinion is despicable.



For christ's sake - let's drop the hyperbole. The guy is *not* going to get a huge fine, and it's not going to land him a criminal conviction. I included the maximum penalty in my post to remind people.

I'm shocked and ashamed that there are so many people around here with so little sense of personal responsibility or accountability.


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## KoNG (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> No, I was just countering the argument that I was raising the profile of the ebay item. OLGR couldn't care less if we police ourselves. OLGR doesn't even know that I'm a homebrewer.




i think this is probably the point here....
contacting the seller first and advising him of his mistakes could have been more appropriate.
you could have then warned of the big "DOB" if nothing was done to remove the sale items.

Could be an honest mistake, but becoming the vigilante, may have just "highlighted" issues that arent really there.

$0.02

edit: some colour for effect


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## tomtoro (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> No, it's not hypocritical. I'm not going to dob in the guy who pirates something off the net. I'll sure as **** dob in the guy who sells his wares collection at a flea market though.
> 
> I'm not going to dob in the guy who steals a keg. You don't want to be the guy selling a stolen keg with me around though.
> 
> I'm sure I break a dozen laws every day; but I don't flaunt them.



Your opinion is clear. And you make the distinction very well between what law breaking you will tolerate and that which you won't. My opinion remains however that trivial breaches of law are still trivial breaches of law, regardless of whether it is on public display or not. As such i still think it is very hipocritical to seek punishment of someone elses small infractions if one openly admits to making similar infractions on a daily basis but just not 'flaunting' it.

This is just my opinion though. I'm happy enough to agree to disagree.


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## Beer Guy (9/4/08)

It is obviously a terror plot why not call 1800 123 400. :lol:


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## winkle (9/4/08)

Hell yeah,* BOTTLE BOMBS PEOPLE!!!!* h34r:
Ooohhh, the humanity.

edit: crappy colour


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## Insight (9/4/08)

Would you really buy a food product from someone not licensed to produce said product? I'm not sure I'd be buying sushi from a bloke in an abandoned warehouse, any more than I'd buy beer from a bloke who may or may not be cutting it with antifreeze.


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## goatherder (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> For christ's sake - let's drop the hyperbole. The guy is *not* going to get a huge fine, and it's not going to land him a criminal conviction. I included the maximum penalty in my post to remind people.
> 
> I'm shocked and ashamed that there are so many people around here with so little sense of personal responsibility or accountability.




My sense of personal responsibility and accountability tells me that I shouldn't sell HB on ebay. It doesn't tell me to go out of my way to cause grief for some poor bloke who does because I'm riding my moral high horse today.


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## captaincleanoff (9/4/08)

goatherder said:


> My sense of personal responsibility and accountability tells me that I shouldn't sell HB on ebay. It doesn't tell me to go out of my way to cause grief for some poor bloke who does because I'm riding my moral high horse today.


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## blackbock (9/4/08)

I'm just glad I don't live next door to Chovain... That was one seriously low blow.


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## Josh (9/4/08)

Slightly off topic. Is it okay for me to do the following?

1) My mates give me money to go out and buy the ingredients. 
2) Then I have them around for a brewday where I am the brewer and they sit around and play darts. 
3) Then two weeks later they come back, play some more darts and I bottle their beer and give it to them.

Would Mark Chovain be dobbing me in for this behaviour? Or would I have to brag about it on myspace before he dobbed me in? Or even if I bragged about it on myspace, would it be legal and therefore escape the wrath of MC?


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

Sorry Josh....your off to jail... :unsure:, probably Supermax or H division

And when TodayTonight get hold off you, you will be portrayed worse than a kiddie diddler or granny graber...

Anyways...I have to go and sort out my $20,000 worth of milk crates....I can hear helicopters. h34r:


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## microbe (9/4/08)

Josh said:


> Slightly off topic. Is it okay for me to do the following?
> 
> 1) My mates give me money to go out and buy the ingredients.
> 2) Then I have them around for a brewday where I am the brewer and they sit around and play darts.
> ...


Probably a grey area. It seems on the surface pretty similar to the Brew On Premises places where they help you brew. It's my belief that all you legally have to do is pitch the yeast.

Cheers,

microbe


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## peas_and_corn (9/4/08)

KoNG said:


> i think this is probably the point here....
> contacting the seller first and advising him of his mistakes could have been more appropriate.
> you could have then warned of the big "DOB" if nothing was done to remove the sale items.
> 
> ...



Already done- check the 'questions' section. (unless it was done by people on this forum afterwards...)



Josh said:


> Slightly off topic. Is it okay for me to do the following?
> 
> 1) My mates give me money to go out and buy the ingredients.
> 2) Then I have them around for a brewday where I am the brewer and they sit around and play darts.
> ...



I do something similar- my friend puts in half the money, helps me brew, and we walk away with a cube each.


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## Mantis (9/4/08)

> people have also auctioned their anal viriginity on ebay...



I for one don't want to see the accompanying picture :icon_drool2:


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## captaincleanoff (9/4/08)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I wonder if the Tax Office checks eBay out......
> 
> Could be a very expesnsive sale with not much profit...



quite a change in opinions there


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## imellor (9/4/08)

Does no one feel pity for this fellow home brewer who has had to give up his lifes passion and sell all his gear.  Have told my kids where they can find some cheep beer. :chug:


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## EK (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> I'm not going to dob in the guy who steals a keg. You don't want to be the guy selling a stolen keg with me around though.


So its ok to steal a car, but not to sell it? It makes no sense to say that theft is ok, but converting that theft to cash is wrong.

You know, I thought you may have had a point originally, but after this it makes me think that you dobbed the guy in just to be a mongrel.

EK


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## mika (9/4/08)

Slow day at work today fellas ? :huh:


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## Ducatiboy stu (9/4/08)

Is stealing cars illegal.....???


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## Beer Guy (9/4/08)

In a perfect world beer would be free from the oversight of the man. not so long ago bootlegging grog in the highlands of Scotland helped define one of lifes pleasures the single malt we look at these people as hero's and larikins now.

As for dobbing in sick people selling off part of their soul in the hope it will go to another cherished keeper of the brewing dream I say shame.


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## beers (9/4/08)

captaincleanoff said:


> people have also auctioned their anal viriginity on ebay...



Certficate of Authenticity included? :huh: 


:lol:


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## Daawl (9/4/08)

Strewth! I am packing it now.  

There is going to be dozens of us in trouble with this other thread going at the moment. <_< 

[topic="0"]Underage drinking[/topic]


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## fixa (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> I hate to be a nanny, but I've lodged a complaint with NSW OLGR. Shits like that give us a bad name, and I hope they fine him. (Maximum penalty $5,000, 6 months imprisonment).






Mark Chovain said:


> All it takes is some old bitty going to the papers and saying, "Look, these homebrew people are selling alcohol unchecked. Think of the children!" You may be overestimating our reputation with the rest of the community: To them, we are a bunch of bogans trying to save a buck, and getting around paying excise like everyone else, based on some little loophole.
> 
> As a community, it is our _duty_ to stop people who flaunt the illegal side of this hobby. Anyone who tries to sell brewery kegs online gets what they deserve. Anyone who sells their homebrew in public ought to be fined, and shunned by the community: that's not us.
> 
> Edit: And people who sell their beer in private (yeah, I'm talking about the "donation jar on the fridge" people) should have a long hard look at themselves.




Without doubt the 2 most stupid posts i've ever seen on this forum. Who appointed you homebrew police?

Grow up.

This kind of shit makes me so goddam mad.

I'm off to join patch...


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## fixa (9/4/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> No, it's not hypocritical. I'm not going to dob in the guy who pirates something off the net. I'll sure as **** dob in the guy who sells his wares collection at a flea market though.
> 
> I'm not going to dob in the guy who steals a keg. You don't want to be the guy selling a stolen keg with me around though.
> 
> I'm sure I break a dozen laws every day; but I don't flaunt them.



And this quote show's your true character.

Frigging Ass Clown.


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## reg (9/4/08)

Going on certain attitudes I dont want it to ever be known If I participate in a swap meet.
Is the swapping of home brew in an organised manner for someone elses classed as a transaction?
Look out I can hear the sirens......
Fair dinkum......

I bought some champagne bottles off ebay and the guy said he had the same amount but they had brew in them.
If I wanted them I could have them for the same price.
The guy was crook and needed some cash in a hurry, did I dob him in? NO
Did I buy them? YES
Did I drink them? NO

I can see the end of the swap meets coming if the CHOVAIN police have anything to do with it..
Or are these OK and there is a double standard.....


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## Millet Man (9/4/08)

Just came across this thread : was too busy making and selling beer legally to see it earlier today.

I now have a strange desire to watch Monty Pythons' Life of Brian.

Love a good stoning...........

Cheers, Andrew.


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## peas_and_corn (9/4/08)

If the beer weighs as much as a duck, then....

IT'S ILLEGAL!!!


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## Millet Man (9/4/08)

Was his name Wodger...

He was a wobber and a wapist, as well as an iwwegal bwewer


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## microbe (9/4/08)

Millet Man said:


> Was his name Wodger...
> 
> He was a wobber and a wapist, as well as an iwwegal bwewer


Weally??

Thanks for the laugh MM & fixa.

Cheers,

microbe


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## chovain (9/4/08)

Josh said:


> Slightly off topic. Is it okay for me to do the following?
> 
> 1) My mates give me money to go out and buy the ingredients.
> 2) Then I have them around for a brewday where I am the brewer and they sit around and play darts.
> ...



You'd need to sell your beer in an open market for me to dob you in.


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## chovain (9/4/08)

fixa said:


> And this quote show's your true character.
> 
> Frigging Ass Clown.



I jaywalked on the way home. I admit it. But I can sleep easy knowing that I didn't sell alcohol to a minor.


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## chovain (9/4/08)

fixa said:


> Without doubt the 2 most stupid posts i've ever seen on this forum. Who appointed you homebrew police?
> 
> Grow up.
> 
> ...



Good. Take the other bogan "**** the law because they're out to get us" types with you. You give the honest people a bad name.


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## chovain (9/4/08)

I'm genuinely disgusted to have been a part of this community. There are some decent people among you, but fewer than I had thought.

Chovain out.


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## sinkas (10/4/08)

randyrob said:


> how do you post something like that?




From what Kai tells me, this is not an option for you Rob.....


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## sinkas (10/4/08)

Geez, obviously many of you have wildl delusions of granduer regarding this hobby and the impact it may ever have on the department of whogivesashit.

Having said that, I am sure the carzy bitch accross the road who is costing me thousands in legal countenace has video tape of me brewing. 
May the lord foul the beer she drinketh.


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## Duff (10/4/08)

Worst thread ever.


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## RedDwarf (10/4/08)

Geez I only posted this cause I thought it would give people a laugh. Maybe should have posted to the jokes section.

Who would honestly buy beer from ebay? :blink: LOL

Maybe the mods can end this thread now?


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## Guest Lurker (10/4/08)

Duff said:


> Worst thread ever.



I agree, except for..



sinkas said:


> From what Kai tells me, this is not an option for you Rob.....




Hey Case
I saw Kai snuggling up to you on my back lawn, and to be honest, I would check carefully before making any virginity offers on ebay.


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