# Maturing In The Keg



## Crunched (9/11/08)

I started kegging a few weeks ago and just filled my 3rd and 4th kegs today. I'm planning on letting these sit for a few weeks or so to mature (a golden ale and an aussie pale FWK).

Anyway, after reading around it seems that most people on AHB don't bother maturing and just chill the kegs, force carb and drink straight away. I did this with my first 2 kegs and even now (about 3 weeks on) they're still a bit rough. 

So what's the go - is it worth maturing? Or is it a waste of time?

Also - can I mature these kegs cold? I mean - can I put them in my chest freezer with the other kegs and allow them to mature there or is it best to let them mature close to their fermentation temps?


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## pokolbinguy (9/11/08)

I naturally carbonate my kegs instead for force carbonating, for this reason there is atleast a few weeks wait before they are ready to drink but generally my brews have been in keg for a few months before being tapped. I have found about 2-3 months makes the beer develop better texture and flavour.

As for maturing in the freezer........buy more kegs and taps....serve more beers and then you will find your kegs aren't empty all the time and this will allow you to mature your beers better.


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## mika (9/11/08)

Depends on the beer, something like an APA with a truck load of late hops can taste quite ordinary. I generally have my beers in the keg for ~1wk before drinking, but I've gone less. Nothing like that freshness of the malt and hops. If you like it smoothed out, by all means mature them for a while, your beer, your call.


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## buttersd70 (9/11/08)

mika said:


> Depends on the beer



Exactly. On the far side of the examples from what Mika mentioned about APA, many English beers benefit from being drunk very young....I force carbed one straight from primary yesterday, just 3 days after fermentation ended....and finished 12L off that afternoon.... :icon_drool2: I just couldn't stop drinking it.


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## QldKev (9/11/08)

For me;;;;;

Fermentor, at fermenting temp until ready, (depends on yeast)
then min 2 days at 2 degrees to clear beer, (hopefully 1 week)
Into kegs, with CO2 at serving pressure. (no shake, rattle n roll here)
Now depending on the beer, unless I want a fresh hops hit 2 weeks min before serving, 4-6weeks improves beer.

QldKev


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## Cortez The Killer (9/11/08)

a week to a couple of weeks will change beer in the keg 

i lack patience so i'm always sampling beers a little while after force carbing

most beers improve given time 

cheers


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## matti (21/11/08)

I allowed my latest ale to naturally carbonate and at ten days it appears to have reached a nice carbonation level.

I didn't use fining's and wondering how long will it take to make an average beer presentable by waiting for the all junk to fall out?

Also, I assume I shouldn't be sampling any until it has cleared fully?

Thirdly: were can I find a reference for type of beers and aging?

Cheers 

Matti


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## SJW (21/11/08)

I just ferment out,
Diacytl rest Lagers at 18 or 20 for 2 days,
then crash chill overnight (all in the primary)
Transfer to keg, and force carb only (no rocking or rolling) for 24 hours at 350kpa,
Then drink.
As above some beers need a couple of weeks in the keg and being cold makes no diff.
FWIW I can't understand why u would bother naturally carbonating kegged beer :huh: when there a bottle of good co2 ready to do the job.
Anyway, where's my flame suit  

Steve


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## matti (21/11/08)

I should rephrase that. 
I left the gas at 100Kpa and allow it to carbonate by itself.
LOL
Wife need attention hehehehehe


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## wyatt_girth (21/11/08)

QldKev said:


> For me;;;;;
> 
> Fermentor, at fermenting temp until ready, (depends on yeast)
> then min 2 days at 2 degrees to clear beer, (hopefully 1 week)
> ...



My keg fridge only holds two kegs - 1 pouring, 1 hooked up to the gas carbonating.
I have only kegged half a dozen or so brews. I and am just wondering about chilling to clear in the fermenter. Is there any risk to the brew if I chill for a couple of days to help clear but then allow the temp to come back up to ambient (indoors) temp once kegged, till it's number comes up and it takes it's place in the fridge? I only have 5 kegs in circulation so it is easy for me to find a home inside for them but am just wondering bout the temp change post ferment and any harm it might bring.
At the moment I am just fermenting with temp control then after fermenting has ended I keg without any chilling and the beer clears ok in the keg once it eventually gets a bit of time in the fridge. It's not a big deal to keep doing what I am doing (is it?) but I was gonna try chill like QldKev has described to see the diff for myself.

Cheers
wyatt


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## QldKev (22/11/08)

If you are going to mature the kegs at room temp then I think chilling them to clear in the fermentor will help. Even if you leave them in the fridge, clearing on a minimal yeast cake will always help improve the beer. Thats the same concept of using a clearing cube.

Somthing else to think about; I ferment in batches of 2 at a time, meaning if I don't chill first then I'm adding 2 warmish kegs into my serving fridge with the 2 cold kegs. My cold kegs warm up a bit and them they are not at drinkies temp for long...

The other method you could use it when you first keg dont worry about putting them in the drinks fridge, just gas up in the storage area, and leave them at room temp. I would still chill them in the fermentor fridge to clear. 

QldKev


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## newguy (22/11/08)

Weizens should be consumed very young - aging actually hurts them. There are probably other styles that should be consumed young but I can't think of any at the moment.

After I transfer my beer to kegs, I chill and force carbonate them. They stay in my serving fridge from that point on. Except for weizens, they all improve over time. The cold helps to drop the yeast too. Except for the first glass or two, expect clear beer after some aging at low temps, even withou finings.

If your sanitation is up to snuff, storing your kegs warm shouldn't hurt them as long as you've purged the headspace with CO2 and store them pressurised. Don't worry too much - beer is really quite forgiving so long as you pay attention to sanitation and oxidation.


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## gava (13/2/09)

newguy said:


> If your sanitation is up to snuff, storing your kegs warm shouldn't hurt them as long as you've purged the headspace with CO2 and store them pressurised. Don't worry too much - beer is really quite forgiving so long as you pay attention to sanitation and oxidation.



I would like to store kegs to , would the process be the following?

1) Ferment
2) put into keg
3) Carbinate (i.e. 300kpa for 48hrs)
4) Bring down to arond 100kpa
5) Store at room temp.

Will that work? or dont you carb until you go to drink them.


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## schooey (13/2/09)

If you are going to age and carbonate in the keg, why wouldn't you just prime it with sugar in the keg and store. Just like a big bottle really...


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## gava (13/2/09)

schooey said:


> If you are going to age and carbonate in the keg, why wouldn't you just prime it with sugar in the keg and store. Just like a big bottle really...



No reason why I wouldn't its just i paid for the gas plus i didnt know you could do that  i wanted to store some because I only have room in my fridge for two maybe three.. that might be enough really but I would like to have a few spare for when I have the boys over I can grab the stored ones and slap them in my fermenting fridge chill them and get them ready for when the other keg(s) run dry..


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## buttersd70 (13/2/09)

schooey said:


> If you are going to age and carbonate in the keg, why wouldn't you just prime it with sugar in the keg and store. Just like a big bottle really...



Yep, best way. Arguably it aids flavour development as well. All you do is prime with _half_ what you would for same volume going into bottles....when it goes into the keg, just purge it, then leave it to sit. The one and _only _reason I force carb instead of doing this, is that I'm behind on my brewing......

Even for a beer thats best young, 5-10 days after kegging, chill for 24 hrs, then bang, on tap. Luverly.


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## jeremy (13/2/09)

schooey said:


> If you are going to age and carbonate in the keg, why wouldn't you just prime it with sugar in the keg and store. Just like a big bottle really...



I would argue you would get a much "cleaner" beer by force carbing, and I also have an aversion to adding table sugar to a brew that I dont really need to, probably ridiculous but kegged beer just seems to tastes better to me and I cant help suspecting that priming may be the cause. (I think I need the flame suit, and the bomb shelter to live through this one...)

EDIT: By cleaner, I just mean less sediment in the bottom of the keg.


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## Adamt (13/2/09)

Well, after sitting the keg in a refrigerator for a week or two, you'll find the yeast settles rather nicely and once the yeast has cleared from around the dip tube uptake, your pouring will be clean. Alternatively, there are some that trim their dip tubes to allow more room for sediment, or you can use gelatine or the like to achieve a more solid sediment. Besides, with the very small amount of fermentation (relatively) occuring during priming, very little extra yeast will be made, so there should be very little difference in the amount of sediment.

As for not wanting to use table sugar... use malt if you're that sensitive


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## SJW (13/2/09)

> I would like to store kegs to , would the process be the following?
> 
> 1) Ferment
> 2) put into keg
> ...



300Kpa for 48 hours is way too long. 24 hours would be good enough to get u drinking.


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## jeremy (13/2/09)

SJW said:


> 300Kpa for 48 hours is way too long. 24 hours would be good enough to get u drinking.




I go with approx 300kpa (more like 270 but this would make little difference) for 48 hours, always have a taste test after 24, but its never anywhere near enough...


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## gava (13/2/09)

jeremy said:


> I go with approx 300kpa (more like 270 but this would make little difference) for 48 hours, always have a taste test after 24, but its never anywhere near enough...



that'd explain my first kegs disaster  i also read up on the correct way to carbinate kegs it said if you have it at 4c and your going for 2.5 you'd want to do 80.1 or somthing does that mean you carb your keg up using 80.1KPA for a week?


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## Ronin (13/2/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Yep, best way. Arguably it aids flavour development as well. All you do is prime with _half_ what you would for same volume going into bottles....when it goes into the keg, just purge it, then leave it to sit. The one and _only _reason I force carb instead of doing this, is that I'm behind on my brewing......
> 
> Even for a beer thats best young, 5-10 days after kegging, chill for 24 hrs, then bang, on tap. Luverly.



Could I ask why prime with only half the sugar butters?

And you drank 12L in an afternoon...24 pints?


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## jeremy (13/2/09)

gava said:


> that'd explain my first kegs disaster  i also read up on the correct way to carbinate kegs it said if you have it at 4c and your going for 2.5 you'd want to do 80.1 or somthing does that mean you carb your keg up using 80.1KPA for a week?



Do you mean your first keg was _under_ carbed?

Its a matter of debate what the "correct" way to carbonate is, but i believe the method you are describing is the "safe" way of doing it. I dont use this method personally, but I believe the theory is you set the pressure to a certain level, and after a week or so the pressure will carbonate the beer to that set level. This way it is not actually possible to over-carb your beer, and you can carb it to exactly the level you require, but it will take longer.

The 300kpa for 48 hours is a way of carbing more quickly. If you leave it too long it will over-carb, this is the disadvantage of this method. Even quicker is the shaking the keg method.

I should mention that I put my keg at 270kpa when I first put it in the fridge, so it will probably spend the first 12 hours getting to a temperature which it can carb at, and not actually do much carbing in this period of time.


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## gava (13/2/09)

jeremy said:


> Do you mean your first keg was _under_ carbed?
> 
> Its a matter of debate what the "correct" way to carbonate is, but i believe the method you are describing is the "safe" way of doing it. I dont use this method personally, but I believe the theory is you set the pressure to a certain level, and after a week or so the pressure will carbonate the beer to that set level. This way it is not actually possible to over-carb your beer, and you can carb it to exactly the level you require, but it will take longer.
> 
> ...



can you save a beer once its been over carb?


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## jeremy (13/2/09)

gava said:


> can you save a beer once its been over carb?



There is always something you can do, but in my experience it is difficult to get it back completely. But then I probably just got impatient.

The most effective method is to disconnect the gas open the relief valve on the keg. After 24hours with the valve open connect it up and see if it has rectified. If not leave it longer, if it has gone too flat hook up the gas at high pressure and re-carb.

You can also shake the keg to encourage gas to escape, but if the keg is too full beer will tend to squirt out of the relief valve. Patience is the virtue required with this one i reckon.


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## BOG (13/2/09)

Butters 12 Litres in an afternoon of English Bitter ! Hope you had some help!

I've done all of the above mentioned methods.

Carb at pouring pressure is by far the easiest.
I have 4 kegs online and never change the regulator setting (70 Kpa)
Plug in the new keg, have a quick taste (it's already a week old from the fermentor) to get an idea as to how it's going to turn out. 
And then pour a beer from the other keg.

2 days later, another taste, and a few beers from another keg. By the weeks end it's got a good head and it starting to clear.
By the end of the next week it's carbed and clear , but still maturing.

By the end of the month it's finished and the process starts again.


Simple , effective and consistant results.


Gava, yes you can.
unplug the gas. burp the keg each time you to the fridge go for a beer. after a week it's almost flat again and you can start the carb process as above.
Takes out the aroma hops and flattens the taste somewhat but it's still drinkable.


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## SJW (13/2/09)

I guess I always excercise caution. I go 350 Kpa for 12 to 18 hours and its always close but on the lower side good carbonation.


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## newguy (13/2/09)

I've force carbonated by simply hooking up the gas and walking away for a week. This is easy, but time consuming (duh), and it ties up your gas lines in the meantime.

I've also force carbonated by hooking up the gas and shaking the living hell out of the keg for 10 minutes. Works best if you invert the keg so the CO2 has to bubble up through the beer, thus stirring it as well. Tiring, but very effective.

If you elect to let your beer naturally carbonate via priming, just be careful that your keg is properly sealed. I have 12 and only a few will seal nicely without any pressure to seat the lid & poppets. You'll probably have to regularly connect the gas in the first few days, until the beer works up enough pressure to seal the keg on its own.

Saving a beer that's too carbonated, in a keg, is really easy. Just disconnect the gas and continue to pour pints from the keg over 2-3 days. Depending on how much beer you remove, what's left in the keg will degas in pretty short order. You can accelerate things by bleeding the keg's pressure relief valve.


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## buttersd70 (13/2/09)

Adamt said:


> Alternatively, there are some that trim their dip tubes to allow more room for sediment, or you can use gelatine or the like to achieve a more solid sediment. Besides, with the very small amount of fermentation (relatively) occuring during priming, very little extra yeast will be made, so there should be very little difference in the amount of sediment.
> 
> As for not wanting to use table sugar... use malt if you're that sensitive


Better to bend, rather than trim....bending can always be undone.  My tubes are bent up off the bottom, and I geletine. Oh, and I never, ever, ever, _ever _would use table sugar (or any polysaccharide) to prime (or for any other reason)....but that's me. :lol: 



Ronin said:


> Could I ask why prime with only half the sugar butters?
> 
> And you drank 12L in an afternoon...24 pints?



Yes I had help with the drinking.....14pints between 2 of us.  

As for half the sugar....honestly, I don't know why. But thats what all the literature suggests, thats what beersmith suggests, and it is also what works. Last keg I primed naturally, after 10-14 days it went in the fridge....once it was at serving temp, after a day or 2, I checked the pressure....it was almost _exactly _at dispensing pressure, no more than a needle width off on the regulator (this is from the natural carb, not the gas....I'd put no gas on at this point). Turned the gas on and poured a _perfect _pint.....and it was clear.


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## eamonnfoley (13/2/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Exactly. On the far side of the examples from what Mika mentioned about APA, many English beers benefit from being drunk very young....I force carbed one straight from primary yesterday, just 3 days after fermentation ended....and finished 12L off that afternoon.... :icon_drool2: I just couldn't stop drinking it.




lets hope there was several people involved in that 12L session!


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## Ronin (13/2/09)

buttersd70 said:


> As for half the sugar....honestly, I don't know why. But thats what all the literature suggests, thats what beersmith suggests, and it is also what works. Last keg I primed naturally, after 10-14 days it went in the fridge....once it was at serving temp, after a day or 2, I checked the pressure....it was almost _exactly _at dispensing pressure, no more than a needle width off on the regulator (this is from the natural carb, not the gas....I'd put no gas on at this point). Turned the gas on and poured a _perfect _pint.....and it was clear.



If that the case butters, if I was to brew say a 30L batch, 18L goes into the keg and I want to bottle the rest, how would you get the right amount of sugar? Or would it just be easier to force carbonate the keg and bulk prime the remainder for bottling?


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## raven19 (13/2/09)

Ronin said:


> If that the case butters, if I was to brew say a 30L batch, 18L goes into the keg and I want to bottle the rest, how would you get the right amount of sugar? Or would it just be easier to force carbonate the keg and bulk prime the remainder for bottling?



Just work out your normal priming rate per litre (dependant on type of beer), halve it then times by 18.

Check out the various links and documents here:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=28251


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## buttersd70 (13/2/09)

raven19 said:


> Just work out your normal priming rate per litre (dependant on type of beer), halve it then times by 18.
> 
> Check out the various links and documents here:
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=28251



Exactly. Any remainder gets primed at the full rate.


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## gava (15/2/09)

BOG said:


> I have 4 kegs online and never change the regulator setting (70 Kpa)
> Plug in the new keg, have a quick taste (it's already a week old from the fermentor) to get an idea as to how it's going to turn out.
> And then pour a beer from the other keg.



This sounds like my kinda of option.. I will have three kegs in my fridge and I dont drink much during the week so I could keg it on the weekend and by the time the next weekend comes around it should be set? 

So this way you'll leave your gas on most the time so when you want it on you just turn it on and dont have to fiddle with it at all? Im going to do this.. cheers..


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## newguy (15/2/09)

gava said:


> This sounds like my kinda of option.. I will have three kegs in my fridge and I dont drink much during the week so I could keg it on the weekend and by the time the next weekend comes around it should be set?
> 
> So this way you'll leave your gas on most the time so when you want it on you just turn it on and dont have to fiddle with it at all? Im going to do this.. cheers..



You don't have to turn the gas off, just leave it on 24/7. That's what I do and the last CO2 cylinder lasted ~23 months and fully dispensed and force carbonated over 40 kegs (19l cornies). Just make sure you don't have any leaks (use soapy water to spray all fittings) and also ensure that the rubber o-rings on the outside of your keg's gas line connectors are in good shape. Nothing is better than just pouring a beer without having to worry about turning on the gas.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (15/2/09)

newguy said:


> Nothing is better than just pouring a beer without having to worry about turning on the gas.



I disagree. Nothing is better than just pouring a beer without having to worry about cleaning the bottle afterwards.


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## newguy (15/2/09)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> I disagree. Nothing is better than just pouring a beer without having to worry about cleaning the bottle afterwards.



Touche.


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## littlecreature (18/2/09)

Alot of really good information, however I feel that there is no decisive answer with regard to storing time and at what temperature.

Will the keg mature naturally kept in a fridge chilled to drinking temp with no gas connected to it? If so, how long should it stand for?

And if you do connect the gas at XXXkpa for XX hours, is it connected to the In or Out post?

Pls forgive me if these are basic questions, just that while my beer has great taste and maintains good head and glass lace, the effervescence just isnt quite there!


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## muckey (18/2/09)

keg will mature in the fridge without the gas connected, just make sure the headspace has been purged.

The keg will mature even if fully carbonated and connected to the gas, just connect the gas to the 'in' post as normal

hope that helps

edit: just a quick note, if you leave the gas connected and turned on the carbonation level will slowly increase over time. You'll need to monitor it to ensure it doesn't overcarb


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