# Is a single 2200w element enough?



## The Village Idiot (7/4/13)

Quick question people.....

Will a single 2200w element handle single batch BIAB in a 40 litre aluminium pot or maybe a keggle(have a keg so might use it)


cheers

Peter


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## Back Yard Brewer (7/4/13)

The Village Idiot said:


> Quick question people.....
> 
> Will a single 2200w element handle single batch BIAB in a 40 litre aluminium pot or maybe a keggle(have a keg so might use it)
> 
> ...


So just to rephrase.
You want to know whether a hand held 2.2kw element will boil 40ltrs of wort?

My answer, it may struggle to get a good rolling boil. I have tried in the past.


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## Phoney (7/4/13)

^ He wont boil 40L of wort in a 40L pot. 

For boiling ~28L or so yes, It's basically what comes in a birko / crown urn. It takes 20 - 25 mins to ramp up from 65 to 78 and 78 to boil, if you're impatient you could always add an over the side element into the mix to speed that up.


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## The Village Idiot (7/4/13)

Might be best to go with two of CB's weldless elements in the Keg?? Turn one off to maintain boil.


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## Degraves (7/4/13)

1 is ample, over the side jobby to speed things up


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## amcqueen (7/4/13)

I had the same problem. I use a 2000w inside a 50l pot and an over the side 2400w to get things moving quickly to a boil. I've been tempted in my last brew to leave both on for the entire boil and it was way too vigorous and boiled off more than what I bargained for. I'm going to try and just leave the 2000w (one in the kettle) on for the entire 90 minute boil and the over the side for just the first 30 minutes of the boil to get a good hot break. Should be the right way to go I think to lessen the evap rate and also make sure DMS is nailed...


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## QldKev (7/4/13)

I'm running a 50L keggle conversion, doing 25L batches in my 1V using a single 2,000w uxcell element. I had to use three good layers of insulation and insulate the bottom. Also I found I get a better boil using a short heady duty (15amp cord, 10amp plugs) extension cord than I do running my 25m normal duty extension cord. I get my 15% boil of over a 60min boil.


Shown here I have camping mat (blue), then a blanket (light brown), then a stretchy cotton material (white).
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:58471]


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## Verbyla (7/4/13)

I started off with just the 1 x kegking weldless 2200w element in a 50L keg doing 23L batches. It was usually boiling 28L-30L of water and wasn't happy with the strength of the boil so purchased another. I run them both non stop the entire way through the boil. I think I'd get about 20% boil off over 60 minutes. I don't have any insulation on my 50L keg and was brewing in the middle of winter when I decided to go with the second element


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## Ross (7/4/13)

Boil does not need to be hard - 1 element is plenty unless you're impatient to get to the boil.

Cheers ross


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## mikec (7/4/13)

I have a single 2200w element (mounted in the bottom, not over the side) in my 40L pot and it is more than sufficient.
I've also wrapped some cheap insulation around the pot and this seems to help but I've done just fine without it too.


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## Bribie G (7/4/13)

I have a Crown 40L urn and an over the side 2200 element. For a normal brew I'd be starting with around 28L initial wort.

Whilst I use the element (sometimes) to speed things up in addition to the urn element, there's the odd occasion when the Crown cuts out* and the 2200 has to be the hero, which it handles perfectly well.


* has happened a couple of times lately with brews containing a lot of wheat malt, since I went onto a finer crush. The Crown element tends to get submerged in sludge and the boil dry switch kicks in. Never happens with an all barley brew.
I'd recommend OTS element - I know the BIAB guys who do demos at Grain and Grape recommend them + a pot for guys starting full volume AG brewing.

Edit: then later if you build a more ambitious system, you've still got a useful element and an intact pot.


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## pat_00 (7/4/13)

I use 1 KK 2200w element in my 36l pot doing 23l (post boil) batches. No insulation. I'm happy with the boil I get.

although I get real nervous at hot break time  will be buying a bigger pot soon I think.


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## Beerisyummy (21/4/13)

QldKev said:


> I'm running a 50L keggle conversion, doing 25L batches in my 1V using a single 2,000w uxcell element. I had to use three good layers of insulation and insulate the bottom. Also I found I get a better boil using a short heady duty (15amp cord, 10amp plugs) extension cord than I do running my 25m normal duty extension cord. I get my 15% boil of over a 60min boil.
> 
> 
> Shown here I have camping mat (blue), then a blanket (light brown), then a stretchy cotton material (white).


Using a lead for heating devices is generally a no no. Most of them state this in the manual.

I also insulate and find it helps reduce the overall energy input dramatically. Aircell, to expanded foam, to aircell.
Personally, I'm using an induction element that is rated at 2100w. Once it goes through a lead the voltage drop turns it into a 1950w element and it will still boil a 40l volume.

Another trick is to reduce the surface area of the wort with a pot or something else. You can get a good boil this way without the need for a 15amp power supply( or gas).


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## QldKev (21/4/13)

Beerisyummy said:


> *Using a lead for heating devices is generally a no no. Most of them state this in the manual.*
> 
> I also insulate and find it helps reduce the overall energy input dramatically. Aircell, to expanded foam, to aircell.
> Personally, I'm using an induction element that is rated at 2100w. Once it goes through a lead the voltage drop turns it into a 1950w element and it will still boil a 40l volume.
> ...



Not saying you are wrong, but I've never seen this documented. If the cord is rated to a given amperage and you don't exceed it I can't see it being an issue. I have found both at home with my element and also prior in my trade the use of a larger capacity cord will minimize voltage drop.


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## QldKev (21/4/13)

I should add to my previous post, living in Queensland I can't remember last time I purchased a heater. My guess with the amount of heater related house fires every year, manufacturers put this in the manual to avoid liability in the case of a fire. In my brewery, I don't have a power point close enough so I need to run an extension cord.


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## Beerisyummy (21/4/13)

QldKev said:


> Not saying you are wrong, but I've never seen this documented. If the cord is rated to a given amperage and you don't exceed it I can't see it being an issue. I have found both at home with my element and also prior in my trade the use of a larger capacity cord will minimize voltage drop.


No probs. I was just trying to share some of my findings.
It's common to find a heater with a clause in the manual stating that they should be plugged directly into the socket, and not run through a lead.

The easiest way for me to describe what is happening with a lead, is to ask whether or not your lead gets hot at any point? Often a lead will be rated for a higher amperage, but the plug itself will offer resistance.
If any part of the lead is getting warm under load there is energy being lost.

My experience is just what I have observed using the tools at hand and playing around with a few different heating elements.

Always happy to document some results while brewing to add to the brew pot.

Cheers
Ross.


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## QldKev (21/4/13)

I think that fact that you measured a drop from 2100w to 1950w is the evidence that there is a huge loss in the cable that would cause it to heat excessively. :icon_cheers:


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## Beerisyummy (21/4/13)

Just for shirts and giggles, I'll wire up a plug to the massive coil of wire I pulled out of a job a few weeks back.
DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. THIS IS NOT A LEGAL OR SENSIBLE THING TO DO.

Once wired up to a 10amp plug, I'll test the voltage drop and report back.

Edit:
Holy beeswax. I'm finally allowed to edit my posts.

For the record, I use a 15amp heavy duty lead with 10amp sockets at the moment. I've tried the short one and it still suffers the same affliction.


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## kieran (7/5/13)

I use 2x2400W grimwood 'over the side' elements in a 26L brew, boil like a mofo for 1 hour. Lose 6L of water in the process.
No DMS issues.


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## iralosavic (7/5/13)

Didn't read whole thread. My experience 2200w in 25L+ doesn't get past 97c. I got around this by floating a small cake tin on the surface, which facilitated a sufficiently vigorous boil.


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## stuchambers (7/5/13)

yes it is enough.
the end.


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## angus_grant (8/5/13)

yes it is enough, if you do other stuff.

I added two camp mats as side insulation and two cut-outs of mat for base insulation. Whilst this improved boil vigour only slightly, it cut about 10 minutes off ramping times to mash and boil. That is about 20 minutes saved on brew day and money saved in electricity costs.

I have a 2400W element in a 50L pot. With 32L water I was achieving a VERY gentle boil. I ended up getting a cheap stainless bowl, cutting the bottom out and bam, a cheap hood. I use a hop sock whilst boiling so wasn't sure the affect a pie-tin/dish in pot would have. I showed Ross a video and he said the boils strength and evaporation rate was fine. My evaporation rate is about 18%. My pot is overly square though (40cm * 40cm) so I was losing quite a lot of energy from the large opening. Most brew-specific pots are tall and narrow, which require less power to bring to boil.




insulation





Home-made hood. I am looking to get a slightly smaller bowl so it will sit inside the pot. The condensation runs down the outside at the moment and I am getting some stains on the insulation.


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## Tex083 (15/5/13)

Angus_grant I would leave that dome on top, as DMS evaporates you want it to drip out of the boil kettle NOT back in.
If you want a better boil try floating a metal dish on top of the wort.

I have a single 2400W element in my boil kettle, its insulated too.


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