# Sweet Cider - How to keep things sweet.



## Airgead (17/11/14)

*All my ciders are too dry. How do I make them sweeter? I'm sick of adding a shot of apple juice to the glass when serving. *

Sweet cider is hard. The easiest way is to learn to enjoy the complexity of a traditional dry cider and forget the lolly water they sell as cider in the shops.

*But its for my missus. She likes sweet stuff.*

Sure it is…

*Are you going to help me or not?*

OK. OK. Sweet cider. To get a sweet cider you can either add sweetness to a finished dry cider or stop the fermentation before it finishes.

*What’s easiest?*

Neither. There are significant challenges with both. But sweetening a finished cider is probably a little bit easier.

*OK. Lets do that then.*

The problem you have is that most sweeteners are fermentable so when you add them, you risk kicking fermentation off again which will give you a dry cider again (and potentially bottle bombs). So the challenge is to prevent re-fermentation.

*So how do I do that?*

The easiest way is to use a non-fermentable sweetener. Artificial sweeteners are one option…

*Yech. They taste foul.*

… but some people find the taste unpleasant so they may not work for you. Another option is an unfermentable natural sugar. Lactose is the usual one but some people are allergic and its not very sweet anyway so all it can do is take the edge off a little. It won’t give you anything really sweet.

*None of that sounds very helpful…*

I told you it wasn't easy. The other way you can add sweetness is to stop the yeast from working. That way you can sweeten using whatever you want and you will be fine.

*Great! How do I do that then?*

Easiest way is temperature. If you can keep the whole batch cold, you will stop the yeast from working. This is easiest when kegging – just stick the keg in the fridge and force carb. With bottles, you need to leave the bottles warm just long enough to carbonate but not long enough to explode and then keep them cold until you drink them.

*What happens if I let the bottles get warm?*

The yeast kicks off again and you end up with a dry cider… and they will probably go boom.

*I don’t have kegs… is there another way?*

Yes. You can stop the yeast from fermenting. Good news is that this works for sweetening after fermentation or stopping fermentation while still sweet.

*Great! How does it work?*

Couple of ways you can do it. Sterile filtration is one. That physically removes all the yeast but it does require some slightly pricey equipment.

*Humm… I’m on a budget. What else?*

Well, you can use chemical methods.

*Like what?*

Potassium sorbate (also known as sorbistat) is the usual way. Sorbate stops yeast from reproducing. What you do is let the cider ferment out dry then clear. Then you rack the clear cider off the yeast cake and add sorbate. That way when you add the sweetener, there isn't enough yeast left to ferment it out and it stays sweet. It will ferment very, very slowly as the remaining cells will stay active, they just won’t increase in numbers. You can also add some sulphates to kelp kill off the remaining yeast and further reduce the number of viable cells.

*Sounds great!*

But there is a catch…

**sigh*. What’s the catch*

No viable yeast means you can’t bottle carb. You will need to force carb which probably means kegs. Didn't you say you used bottles? By the way, that’s a catch for sterile filtration as well.

*Yep. Damn! So what else will work?*

Well… there is bottle pasteurization…

*Will that let me bottle condition and leave things sweet?*

Yes… but…

**Sigh* What’s the catch?*

Well… it works like this – you take your cider and either add sweetener or bottle while still sweet. Then you cap and leave them to carb, but not long enough to explode. Then you take the bottles, which have an unknown pressure rating, and contain an unknown pressure, then you bung them in boiling water which raises the internal pressure to a higher but still unknown amount.

*That doesn't sound very safe.*

It isn't. Bottles go foom and spray glass and boiling water all over the place.

*But don’t commercial operations do it that way?*

Yes.. but they aren't using random second hand bottles. They know the exact engineering specs for the bottles they use. They also have their process down pat and know exactly how much pressure is in each bottle. So they can do it safely. You can’t.

*Damn! Any other options?*

Well.. there’s Keeving which is a traditional process that strips out the nutrients from the juice and intentionally stalls the fermentation, but that requires you to be using fresh apples and its not a totally reliable technique. The instructions I have seen list about a dozen ways it won’t work and the solution is always “let it ferment out dry and bottle as a dry cider”.

*Anything else?*

Well… there’s the simplest way of all.

*What’s that?*

Add a shot of apple juice in the glass when serving.

*That sounds like a plan*.


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## menoetes (17/11/14)

Lol, Love it - very fun & informative. Thanks for the hard work Airgead.

I've used 400g of lactose in a 20lt batch of apple juice cider and I agree that it didn't do a lot towards sweetening it. I have read about adding pear juice up to 15 - 25% of total volume can add sweetness through natural unfermentable sugars found in pears. No good if you don't like pears but a possible solution to dryness in a fruit cider?


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## Mutaneer (17/11/14)

Great thread.

Sticky..!


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## TimT (17/11/14)

*So why'd you use the question and answer format? *

Seemed like a good idea at the time to get lots of information across.

*But doesn't it seem kinda fake? *

In what way?

*Like you're putting words into somebody's mouth. *

Works for me. Do you have a problem with that?

*Wait a second. I was the one asking the questions. What the hell's going on here? *

Maybe we'd better ask someone else.

*Who? *

Maybe.... God, got any answers?

SIGH. WHAT DO YOU WANT NOW? 

*We're just wondering about this somewhat questionable question and answer format. *

THAT WASN'T EVEN A PROPER QUESTION. WAIT. WHO DECIDED MY FONT WOULD BE PINK? AHHHHHHHHHH. THAT'S BETTER. 


What were we even talking about again?

*Can't remember. I guess that means we'd better have another cider.... *

MAKE THAT THREE!


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## TimT (17/11/14)

Feel a bit remiss posting that. I should have just said, 'great work Airgead, keep it coming!'


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## Airgead (17/11/14)

Tim - it is indeed a literary conceit... but one that I find pretty effective. Tis nothing more than a way to inject a little humor into what could be a very dry topic.

Menotes - yep. Pear juice has a non fermentable sugar called sorbitol in it. The exact amount varies depending on the variety of pears, time of year etc so you may have to experiment to work out how much .Sorbitol is also a laxative which can lead to the phenomenon known as the "perry shits".


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## n87 (17/11/14)

Airgead said:


> could be a very dry topic.



heh... i get it


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## Airgead (17/11/14)

See what I did there...


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## menoetes (17/11/14)

Airgead said:


> Menotes - yep. Pear juice has a non fermentable sugar called sorbitol in it. The exact amount varies depending on the variety of pears, time of year etc so you may have to experiment to work out how much .Sorbitol is also a laxative which can lead to the phenomenon known as the "perry shits".


A bit like Ye Olde Prune juice, eh what?


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## JWB (26/11/14)

Just a quickky Guys

To increase the apple taste a bit how would a few tablespoons of malic acid go if added to the fermenter after its nearly finished fermenting?

I find the dryness is not too bad but I have not got the apple taste quite right. In other words Im looking for a cider that is sparkling but with plenty of apple.


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## Ciderman (26/11/14)

Couldn't you just cold crash at 1.010 and keg it?


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## Airgead (26/11/14)

JWB said:


> Just a quickky Guys
> 
> To increase the apple taste a bit how would a few tablespoons of malic acid go if added to the fermenter after its nearly finished fermenting?
> 
> I find the dryness is not too bad but I have not got the apple taste quite right. In other words Im looking for a cider that is sparkling but with plenty of apple.


That will add tartness and acid but no apple flavour. If you mix up a malic acid solution it doesn't taste like apples. It tastes like sour.



Ciderman said:


> Couldn't you just cold crash at 1.010 and keg it?


Yep. Sure can. That's one of the options - chill to stop the yeast. Its the easiest way if you keg. You can even back sweeten in the keg. As long as you can keep it cold you are fine. A lot of people here bottle their ciders so that's not an option for them.


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## NickyJ (29/11/14)

Brilliant thread Airgead. I reckon I might apply this for adding some honey to a fermented keg of braggot. Should be a winner.


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## Ferg (30/11/14)

Great thread & covers about 99% of the cider questions ever asked!

Another option along the cold crashing line is multiple rackings.. If you rack when the must is at about 2 degrees then all the better!
I personally dont think you can rely on cold crashing unless you know the origin of the apples. If they have come from orchards where they use lots of fertiliser (nitrogen) then forget about it!


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## Airgead (30/11/14)

Multiple rackings works by reducing the number of yeast cells available to ferment the remaining sugars. If the must is low in nitrogen that will inhibit reproductions so their numbers will stay low. You can also add sorbistat after racking to to the same thing if your nitrogen levels are higher.

Chilling will work provided you keep things below the temp at which your particular strain goes dormant. If you do this... don't use a lager yeast. Anything else is usually good and dormant under 5C or so.

Nothing is 100% sure (except maybe pasteurization or sterile filtration then force carbing). Anything else is a gamble but if you know what you are about you can win most of the time (unlike the pokies). 

Cheers
Dave

P.S. Several beers and a bottle of red in tonight so I hope that made sense.


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## blekk (7/12/14)

What about using campden tablets - potassium metabisulphite - to stabilize to cider before adding apple juice?


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## Airgead (7/12/14)

Yep. Campden will knock out most of the yeast. That's those sulphites I mentioned in the first post. Campden tabs are the most common way home winemakers have of getting sulphites into the wine.

You can then use sorbate to inhibit any that remain. Yes it works, but its not 100% foolproof. Campden isn't a particularly good yeast killer. It kinda does but its a much better antioxidant than it is a yeast killer. that's why it is typically added. You need to use a fairly high dose to really knock down yeast.

The usual method is - Let the cider finish dry. Let it clear and rack off the yeast. Add sulphites to kill most of what remains. A day or so later add sorbate to inhibit the rest. Back sweeten. Force carbonate and bottle.

Oh yeah... because you have killed and inhibited the yeast, you can't bottle condition. You have to force carb. So works much better in kegs than bottles.

Cheers
Dave


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