# 1/2" 2-way Motorized Ball Valves



## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

I stumbled upon a build thread in the US that incorporated 1/2" 2-way motorized ball valves. I've made a few enquiries, and he purchased them for $44 USD each (including shipping), but needed to buy 20 to get the price down that low.

I've had a look at the details for the valves and they seem to be more than suitable for the application. Here are the links:

The build thread (well worth a look even if you're not interested in the valves)
Manufacturers product detail page: http://www.electric-valve.com/20-1.html
Videos of the valve in action: http://www.absolutecentrifuge.com/specifications.aspx#spec03

My question is, if the pricing stacks up (I've emailed for updated pricing including delivery to Melbourne), would anybody be interested in buying a couple? My brew rig will require 6 units in total, so that means that there would be 14 I'd need to offload.


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## brettprevans (8/12/10)

brew porn! who can afford 3 march pumps though? geez that would be nice to have a rig like that.

are you building the rig yourself?


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## praxis178 (8/12/10)

Drooooooool!


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## Mattese (8/12/10)

Thats what I was looking at! I was working out how much the valves would be, and then noticed the three pumps... I feel very pov right now!


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## argon (8/12/10)

holy crap that is pure brew p0rn... with automation... :icon_drool2:


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> brew porn! who can afford 3 march pumps though? geez that would be nice to have a rig like that.
> 
> are you building the rig yourself?



Yeh mate, have ordered some of the parts, but I'm deviating a bit from his design (adding RIMS into the equation).

I thought the same thing about the march pumps, but the simplicity of the design almost makes it worthwhile (the way I figure it I've already got one of the pumps, so its only 2 more I need and I'm in no rush to put it all together).

Am thinking about starting a build thread in the next couple of days (but want to wait until I've got something to show).

Edit: I already have 12 valves accounted for (including mine) pending updated pricing, so there are 8 still unspoken for.


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## kirem (8/12/10)

I purchased 6 valves from KLD. One arrived broken and I informed them straight away, sent pictures and they would not replace it and told me I must have dropped it.

Extremely bad customer service from this Chinese outfit.

tread very carefully when dealing with them


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

kirem said:


> I purchased 6 valves from KLD. One arrived broken and I informed them straight away, sent pictures and they would not replace it and told me I must have dropped it.
> 
> Extremely bad customer service from this Chinese outfit.
> 
> tread very carefully when dealing with them



Cheers for the heads up. Do the remaining valves work as you'd expect?


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## fraser_john (8/12/10)

MeLoveBeer said:


> Cheers for the heads up. Do the remaining valves work as you'd expect?



Maybe ask them about their policy for this kind of thing? Let them know that you had heard they were average on the customer service side of things after the transaction is completed.


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

fraser_john said:


> Maybe ask them about their policy for this kind of thing? Let them know that you had heard they were average on the customer service side of things after the transaction is completed.



Good move I think... makes them realise that its not just 1 purchase thats effected when they provide [email protected] customer service.


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## stew.w (8/12/10)

MeLoveBeer said:


> Yeh mate, have ordered some of the parts, but I'm deviating a bit from his design (adding RIMS into the equation).
> 
> I thought the same thing about the march pumps, but the simplicity of the design almost makes it worthwhile (the way I figure it I've already got one of the pumps, so its only 2 more I need and I'm in no rush to put it all together).
> 
> ...




i think you should do a 3d model and then start a build thread....


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## kirem (8/12/10)

MeLoveBeer said:


> Cheers for the heads up. Do the remaining valves work as you'd expect?



I haven't yet tested them.

Their only payment method is International money transfer, so I had no comeback through paypal or credit card dispute.

The wiring on them is a little interesting, I think there must be a large capacitor in there. When power is supplied the valve moves to a position, then when power is disconnected the capacitor supplies power to move the valve to the other position. The valve has to be in a powered position long enough to charge the capacitor, this obviously limits the cycle time.

Have a look over at www.brewtroller.com, not really suitable for a non-electronic savvy person, but well worth a look.

You can also buy valves from http://www.oscsys.com/12-Motorized-Stainless-Ball-Valve.html I can highly recommend these guys. These are the same guys behind brewtroller and they order in bulk from KLD.


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

kirem said:


> The wiring on them is a little interesting, I think there must be a large capacitor in there. When power is supplied the valve moves to a position, then when power is disconnected the capacitor supplies power to move the valve to the other position. The valve has to be in a powered position long enough to charge the capacitor, this obviously limits the cycle time.
> 
> Have a look over at www.brewtroller.com, not really suitable for a non-electronic savvy person, but well worth a look.



The good thing is that the guy in the states who built that rig is easily contactable and has offered assistence (by email or pm) if I can't get them working with the controller I've ordered (the embedded control concepts BCS-462).

FYI also, I think that I might need to go for the 12v model as apparently a relay is required regardless and the 5v version is apparently slow to switch (as you mentioned).


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## Online Brewing Supplies (8/12/10)

Sorry if I missed it in the specs but is the thread 1/2" NPT or BSP. I could use a couple on my system if the thread suits.
GB


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## kirem (8/12/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Sorry if I missed it in the specs but is the thread 1/2" NPT or BSP. I could use a couple on my system if the thread suits.
> GB



I have BSP. That said I have never had problems mixing NPT and BSP threads on my system.



MeLoveBeer said:


> The good thing is that the guy in the states who built that rig is easily contactable and has offered assistence (by email or pm) if I can't get them working with the controller I've ordered (the embedded control concepts BCS-462).
> 
> FYI also, I think that I might need to go for the 12v model as apparently a relay is required regardless and the 5v version is apparently slow to switch (as you mentioned).



I have 220vAC model, and they are 3-way valves, L-Port


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Sorry if I missed it in the specs but is the thread 1/2" NPT or BSP. I could use a couple on my system if the thread suits.
> GB



They offer both, but I'll be ordering them in 1/2" BSP

Edit: only just noticed the link to OSCS kirem... for the difference in price, it might just be worth ordering from them (given that they take paypal). If you don't mind me asking kirem, what did it cost you in postage?


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## kirem (8/12/10)

MeLoveBeer said:


> They offer both, but I'll be ordering them in 1/2" BSP
> 
> Edit: only just noticed the link to OSCS kirem... for the difference in price, it might just be worth ordering from them (given that they take paypal). If you don't mind me asking kirem, what did it cost you in postage?



Frieght from KLD was significant in the overall cost. I can post the quote on here when I get home tonight.


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## dent (8/12/10)

Those three pumps seem completely redundant on that design, especially as they share that manifold. Really seems to be an example of 'with hammer in hand everything looks like a nail'. One pump could do the job and it would make good use of those actuated valves. Not arguing it doesn't look cool though.


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

That would be great kirem. The price break down I was given by the guy in the states was as follows: $160 Freight + $30 customs + $660 ($33 per unit * 20) = $850 USD


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## ArnieW (8/12/10)

I can vouch for the KLD valves - I have the 240V ones and they work great. Takes about 5 seconds to close by itself once power is switched off. It was a pain dealing directly with China, if I were doing it again I go directly to the brewtroller guys that Kirem has already mentioned. I've also ordered stuff from them and they provide great service.


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## MeLoveBeer (8/12/10)

ArnieW said:


> I can vouch for the KLD valves - I have the 240V ones and they work great. Takes about 5 seconds to close by itself once power is switched off. It was a pain dealing directly with China, if I were doing it again I go directly to the brewtroller guys that Kirem has already mentioned. I've also ordered stuff from them and they provide great service.



Exactly what I wanted to hear Arnie. Think it might be worth shooting them off an email and seeing what sort of pricing I can get.


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## ArnieW (8/12/10)

MeLoveBeer said:


> Exactly what I wanted to hear Arnie. Think it might be worth shooting them off an email and seeing what sort of pricing I can get.


Happy to help out. Hey I work in Mooroolbark these days. If you want to see one before you buy, send me a pm.


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## MeLoveBeer (9/12/10)

I pointed JonW (the builder of the rig listed) over to this thread and he had a few points to add (sent by PM on another forum):

_Mark,

I went over to your AHB forum and read the thread.

Some points:

- The commets by "kirem" regarding the capacitor issue is only on one of their wiring schemes. They have multiple ways of wiring (B2, B3, BD3). I chose B3 so that the valves would be powered open and closed with no reliance on an internal capacitor.

- The valves at the BrewTroller site are not B3 wiring configuration - I've not looked at them closely, so I don't know off-hand which of the wiring schemes they are. However, they also require the use of a relay board to switch them, so they would work just fine with the BCS.

- The comments from "dent" regarding the 3 pumps being redundant. The design could easily be done with 2 pumps and some additional valves, except for one requirement that I wanted to meet. I wanted to be able to do back-to-back brew sessions and be mashing while my first brew is finishing in the boil without any cross-contamination in the lines. Since I do continuous recirculation on both my HLT & MLT, I wanted a dedicated pump for the boil kettle to keep them separate. When you put a few thousand into a brew build, another $100 pump is cheap for the simplicity and flexibility gained.

Regards,
Jon

ps: for driving the valves, here's the relay board I used with the BCS: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=130443542534_


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## kirem (10/12/10)

View attachment 42703


US$


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## MeLoveBeer (10/12/10)

kirem said:


> View attachment 42703
> 
> 
> US$



Thanks Kirem. 

A bit of an update... I've located and made contact with an Australian KLD distributor (www.hydropure.com.au), so should have a price reasonably soon (they said that they almost absorb the shipping costs, because they come as part of a much larger shipment from KLD). I'm not optimistic that pricing will be any cheaper, but at least I'll local support etc.


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## Nodrog (10/12/10)

1/2in and 3/4in BSP and NPT are so close you wouldn't know the difference. The tpi is the same, the angle of the threads is a degree or 2 different, thats all.

1in and above- no way, different tpi, 1/2 a turn and it jammed and still leaking.

USD 44 for a 1/2 in electric ball valve is scarily cheap - you've got to worry if they're really up to it. But if there's a local importer who will stand behind them, good on them.


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## smartvalves (1/2/11)

MeLoveBeer said:


> I stumbled upon a build thread in the US that incorporated 1/2" 2-way motorized ball valves. I've made a few enquiries, and he purchased them for $44 USD each (including shipping), but needed to buy 20 to get the price down that low.
> 
> I've had a look at the details for the valves and they seem to be more than suitable for the application. Here are the links:
> 
> ...



In relation to your 1/2" 2-way motorized ball valves,we can provide you with the price only 22USD,if you are interested,please contact me through [email protected], or Skype:amyzhang3000.
PS we are specialized manufacturer and exporter for motorised ball valves in China,we can delivery your goods through courier for your small order.

Regards,

Amy


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## smartvalves (1/2/11)

MeLoveBeer said:


> Thanks Kirem.
> 
> A bit of an update... I've located and made contact with an Australian KLD distributor (www.hydropure.com.au), so should have a price reasonably soon (they said that they almost absorb the shipping costs, because they come as part of a much larger shipment from KLD). I'm not optimistic that pricing will be any cheaper, but at least I'll local support etc.



We can provide motorised ball valves with price around USD22,should you have any inquiry,please do not hesitate to contact me [email protected] ,or Skype:amyzhang3000,


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## Cocko (1/2/11)

:icon_drool2: 

*Wearing a hole in it*

OMFG - unbelievable, absolutely outstanding engineering and design.

Who said AG was expensive  

Thanks for posting!


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## schooey (1/2/11)

Amy said:


> We can provide motorised ball valves with price around USD22,should you have any inquiry,please do not hesitate to contact me [email protected] ,or Skype:amyzhang3000,



lol... what sort of amazing Chinese spambot have you got trolling the webs looking for forum threads with the phrase "ball valve"? Impressive..


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## Andyd (1/2/11)

At $22 I'd definietly be in for 6... Amy, do you have details on the material (I presume they're nickel plated rather than Stainless Steel?)

Thanks,

Andy


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## Andyd (1/2/11)

Geez. I just got a reply from Amy... these are in fact brass, but they will do Stainless for extra. How much?

An extra $2 USD !!!!! At $24 a unit I'll burn 6 on the off chance that they might burn out. Good thing I've left room in my controller module to drive valves. 

It does mean going back to the keyboard to put in new code... who am I kidding. This could be great!

Who's in? 

Andy


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## schooey (1/2/11)

Oooooh... "The Great Chinese Ball Valve Buy of 2011" has begun.... now where's my popcorn?






Sorry, couldn't help it, Andy....  Not being a naysayer, just a smartass. Hope it all goes well!


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## Andyd (1/2/11)

I know what you mean... tell you what - I'll take one for the team and order some in. Will give you the low down when they hit the shore...

Andy


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## MeLoveBeer (1/2/11)

Andyd said:


> Geez. I just got a reply from Amy... these are in fact brass, but they will do Stainless for extra. How much?
> 
> An extra $2 USD !!!!! At $24 a unit I'll burn 6 on the off chance that they might burn out. Good thing I've left room in my controller module to drive valves.
> 
> ...



Just remember that freight is the real killer with these... I ended up ordering mine through open source control systems, purely because they had runs on the board and I could pay with paypal.

Not the same valves, but couldn't be happier with the transaction.


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## DJR (13/3/11)

Andy, did you get those valves in yet? Anything to report?


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## Andyd (14/3/11)

DJR said:


> Andy, did you get those valves in yet? Anything to report?




I've been talking with them about shipping and payment... they only do bank transfer. But I will be putting in an order for 10 tomorrow. Will report back as soon as I've seen them.

Andy.


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## DJR (14/3/11)

Great. Here i was thinking actuated ball valves are $$$, and they turn out to be quite cheap. Even at $50 a pop that is quite doable. Sounds like the spare time project over the next year to build some automation in.


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## kjparker (14/3/11)

Andyd said:


> I've been talking with them about shipping and payment... they only do bank transfer. But I will be putting in an order for 10 tomorrow. Will report back as soon as I've seen them.
> 
> Andy.




What was ther total cost for 10?


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## Andyd (14/3/11)

clueless said:


> What was ther total cost for 10?


I'll let you know once I know what the bank transfer us going to cost...


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## crozdog (14/3/11)

hi andy,

is that price for SS 24v units? I'm interested in 240v SS

Beers Crozdog.

Offtopic PS: can you drop me a PM re what's happening re BJA? Haven't heard anything since anhc.


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## Andyd (15/3/11)

Andyd said:


> I'll let you know once I know what the bank transfer us going to cost...



Ok. Cost came in at AU $360 for 10 shipped to me. With the shipping prices I've been quotes, I can probably land 24 at my door for about $32 USD (note the currentcy difference in case anything happens in the markets) per unit. 

Andy


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## Andyd (15/3/11)

crozdog said:


> hi andy,
> 
> is that price for SS 24v units? I'm interested in 240v SS
> 
> ...



That's for 1/2" SS 12V units. Apparently a 240V version is available for about another $10USD.

Andy


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## Andyd (21/3/11)

Folks,

The valves arrived today, and appear to be in good order. Basically a stainless steel valve body with a 1/2" bore. 

These are available in a variety of wiring modes, but the most likely for us is a power-on=open, power-off=closed mode. It operates on VDC 5-24. Apparently they will also work on VAC 5-24. 

Use cases tested: 

Normal Operation:

Apply 00VDC : Valve closed (OK)
Apply 05VDC : Valve open (OK - current draw of 150mA declines to 0 as valve closes)
Apply 12VDC : Valve open (OK)
Apply 24VDC : Valve open (OK)
Apply 00VDC : Valve closes (no current draw - motor is powered via a capacitor in this configuration)

Fail modes:

Apply 12V, jam valve open: Valve stalls. No oscillation, no back off. No current change noticable as a detection mechanism. Valve closes completely after removing blockage, but only just (capacitor charge will disipate with time, meaning that after a while the valve will remain partially open if left in this state for some time).


Disassembly test:

The unit has a ribber seal to minimise risk of liquid penetration. I broke it down only to the point of identifying the gears - I wasn't up for remembering the gear configuration at this point to verify the opperating modes for the motor . Suffice to say it looks very well built for the price, with no plastic moving parts, and silicon grease on all friction surfaces.

Verdict:

All up - these look like the ducks nuts! I'm going to do a hydrostatic test overnight (with any luck) to make sure the valve itselve is a good seal, but for our purposes this is going to do the trick nicely.

I've attached a couple of pics of the outside of the unit (didn't think to do the inside while I had it open - sorry).







Pros:

Super fast delivery - UPS (left China Friday, arrived Monday afternoon)
Very reasonable price

Cons:

Payment requires an international bank transfer (CBA charged me $30 for the honour, and then a fee for paying by VISA on the day).

Star rating - Mega! 

I'm going to ask around our club to see if anyone is interested in a bulk buy, but I'd be cautious about bringing in too many. 24 units will keep us under the import duty threshold, but many more will draw attention.

Andy


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## Andyd (22/3/11)

Here's the possible wiring configurations for those who might be interested. I'm not sure how happy they'll be mixing and matching in an order, but it's worth knowing in case you need a specific one...


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## Leigh (22/3/11)

Stop it guys...you are all teasing with this talk of automating


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## Andyd (29/5/11)

Folks,

I'm going to be ordering a shipment of these for Melbourne Brewers shortly, and there's room for a few more if anyone is interested.

I don't have a firm price yet, but once I get enough "interest" I'll get a firm quote and then put in an order.

All the details are in this thread...

Andy


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## Sully (29/5/11)

Hey Andy,


I am possibly for a few, price dependant of course. Are the ones you are looking at ordering from KLD? The KLD20 units.

Also interested in a couple of the 3 way valves.

Cheers

Sully

Edit: didnt think to scroll back to read previous posts...  looong morning thus far...


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## Andyd (29/5/11)

Sully said:


> Hey Andy,
> 
> 
> I am possibly for a few, price dependant of course. Are the ones you are looking at ordering from KLD? The KLD20 units.
> ...



Nope - it's a no-name chinese model, normal ball valve. All stainless valve.

Andy


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## sean_0 (30/5/11)

Hey, I'll grab two if you can fit me in. Can transfer funds to you whenever you're ready. Thanks


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## NickB (30/5/11)

Interested depending on price of course....


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## gava (30/5/11)

compatible with brewtroller?


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## Andyd (30/5/11)

gava said:


> compatible with brewtroller?



I haven't looked at the brewtroller - as long as it applies a current to open the valve, and then removes it to close it I would say yes.

That said, I'd personally not be driving it directly from the micro's outputs, so if there's not already a buffer circuit on the output to pull the current up, I'd be looking at putting one in there.

Andy


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## Andyd (6/6/11)

Guyss,

I am going to get a quote tonight based on current numbers:

Mel Brewers: 6 valves
Sully : 3 valves
Sean_O : 2 valves


Nick B and Gava haven't specified qty yet.

I'll be sending through advice for a quote tomorrow morning, so anyone who wants one should let me know before then.

*ALSO*
*
BrewTroller Users:*

The valve they use looks identical, but is a three wire configuration (with fail-open) whereas the controller I chose is only two wire (with a fail-closed configuration). Both are available, just specify which one you want.

NOTE: I do not have a brewtroller system, so check the wiring diagram in this thread for the CR03 configuration, and check for yourself that this is going to work for you. I believe it will, but can't guarantee it.


Andy


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## sean_0 (6/6/11)

Cool, thanks for doing this


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## gava (6/6/11)

i've spoken to some brewtroller users who said they've had a few of theses units and they're pretty good unless you get a busted one then the supplier can't speak english 
if using on brewtroller they recommend to get the ones supplied by brewtroller....


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## Sully (6/6/11)

Based on the info regarding Brewtroller I will have to sit this one out. Cheers, Sully


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## NickB (6/6/11)

I'll pass as well, as I'd really prefer the 240v versions.

I have spoken to a supplier about these, so if anyone is interested send me a PM and I'll see what they can do on price...

Cheers


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## Andyd (6/6/11)

No probs Sully & Nick,

Can't comment on the return issue, since the units I've been test running haven't died yet despite me hammering them. Not to say that it couldn't happen, but the lass I've been dealing with communicates very well indeed for a China-based operation.

I'm interested in the brewtroller comment though, given that their device has an extraordinarily similar industrial design - I'll put money on theirs being from China, possibly even the same supplier...

Nick, would be interested to hear how much the 240V units you can source end up being...

Andy


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## Andyd (6/6/11)

Price is in fo rthe current qty.

$29USD per valve, plus $9 per unit shipping, and then $2 per unit for the money transfer, so all up $40 per valve.

Both shipping and valve costs are up from last time I ordered ($26 and $7 for unit and shipping).

I will PM those who are interested. Will understand if this breaks the bank.

Andy


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## kirem (6/6/11)

Andyd said:


> but the lass I've been dealing with communicates very well indeed for a China-based operation.
> 
> I'm interested in the brewtroller comment though, given that their device has an extraordinarily similar industrial design - I'll put money on theirs being from China, possibly even the same supplier...



ava gu (Ms)? Hopefully not, as she is the one that sent me a broken valve and then didn't want anything to know about it and accused me of breaking it.

The two other brewtroller guys got shafted by KLD and now do business with a different Chinese supplier, yes they are similar looking but not the same internally. I am not sure on the exact details, but I believe one had an extreme amount charged for freight and had no success getting his money back.

buyer beware.

I'm not shit-canning your bulk buy, but it would be amiss of me not to comment.


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## Andyd (6/6/11)

kirem said:


> ava gu (Ms)? Hopefully not, as she is the one that sent me a broken valve and then didn't want anything to know about it and accused me of breaking it.
> 
> The two other brewtroller guys got shafted by KLD and now do business with a different Chinese supplier, yes they are similar looking but not the same internally. I am not sure on the exact details, but I believe one had an extreme amount charged for freight and had no success getting his money back.
> 
> ...



Indeed - no foul. 

No, not Ava. Have to admit the postage seems steep to me for a 5kg package. $40 for a S/S motorised valve still seems pretty good to me.

All I know is that my first 10 came through with no problems...

Anyway, anyone wanting in let me know before about 12 tomorrow.

Back to marking assignments... 

Andy


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## Andyd (8/6/11)

Sorry Guys, 

With Sully out we won't have enough to make shipping worthwhile, so I'm pulling the pin on this one.

If anyone else wants to have a shot seperately, PM me and I'll pass on the supplier's contact details.

Andy


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