# Plastic Pail For Mashing & Boiling



## hhouken (26/1/11)

About to migrate from kit to AG brewing and need to purchase an urn or stock pot for BIAB brewing. Read in a book by well known brewing author that a plastic fermenter can be modified by installing an electric element (ie: will look like an urn). Would anyone recommend this? Sound like a cheap option.


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## felten (26/1/11)

aka bucket of death, a forum search of that should help you out, there's quite a few topics


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/1/11)

DO yourself a favour and get a metal pot

Bucket of death is just that


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## Maxt (27/1/11)

I have a few long term goals, one of them is to remove all plastic from my brewery.


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## Bribie G (27/1/11)

They are quite popular in the UK - I used to have a Bruheat boiler. They are quite robust but looking at current prices, even if they were available in Australia a 40L urn would be better value. 
A converted fermenter would be too small to do a full size BIAB brew - even 40L is just starting to push the envelope for some bigger beers.


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## DU99 (27/1/11)

plastics aren't all the same..remember to check to see if it will handle the temperature..remember it you stress it to much Hot/cold it will shatter,and no metal objects in case you scratch the surface(infection)..remember plastic kettles break too


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## DanRayner (27/1/11)

With allthe work involved in "installing an electric element" and given you are probably going to want to upgrade after only a short while I would recommend getting an immersion element - one that you just pop in that hooks on to the side of the bucket/pail/fermenter.







That way you can have a three vessel system (separate plastic vessels for HLT, mash tun, kettle) with only one heating element. (move the element from the HLT to the kettle toward the end of the sparge)

Also, stand alone immersion elements are far more saleable when you do decide to upgrade and move on from this system...

Good luck!

Dan


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## Malted (27/1/11)

Capie said:


> a plastic fermenter can be modified by installing an electric element (ie: will look like an urn). Would anyone recommend this?




Nope I wouldn't recommend a fermenter. I poured freshly boiled wort, only let it come off the boil (so prob about 95oC), straight into a fermenter and I was pretty scared to say the least. Whilst it did not melt the fermenter, it was pretty darned soft. As I picked it up, the sides came up but the bum stayed on the ground. I promptly put it back down and left it right there. So I'd be doubfull about an element in a fermenter. :huh:


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## Barry (27/1/11)

I agree fully with Dan. Also after a flaming plastic fermenter/boiler when it tip over when I was absent for 2 minutes I am only using metel HLT's and boilers now.


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## DanRayner (27/1/11)

I've done this in a fermenter and it does soften quite dramatically... maybe look into a white-plastic pail; the sort of ones you see the British sites promoting?

Another couple of good things about the immersion element are they cost about the same as a screw-in/bolt-on element that you would have to buy if you were to install one (but easily sold after you move on from the plastic) and when you do get around to making a stainless steel kettle with an installed element (or gas burner) you can still use it for your HLT...


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## Bribie G (27/1/11)

Or if you go BIAB in an urn. An additional heat source really speeds up the day. Although I don't have an immersion heater I use a Kambrook Hotplate and heavy stockpot that I use for cereal mashing etc and that gets pressed into service to help heat the strike water and then to raise the wort to boiling - I did a test brew for Jim's Beer Kit forum yesterday and from starting to heat the strike water to getting the wort into the nochill cube took four hours and five minutes. Pretty good for an AG brew day. An immersion heater would do the job as well.


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## HoppingMad (27/1/11)

Capie said:


> Read in a book by well known brewing author that a plastic fermenter can be modified by installing an electric element (ie: will look like an urn). Would anyone recommend this? Sound like a cheap option.



Thirsty Boy's original rig was one of these. Cheap Plastic fermenter with an element taken out of a kettle. LRB now has this rig and makes All-Grain Beers that are some of the best you'll drink. TB did too.

There are many roads to Rome, and they don't all require big flash pieces of bling, so take comments on AHB about upgrading to the flashiest gear with a grain of salt. A hand held heating element will cost you $120 unless you're lucky on ebay (they are few and far between and get snapped up quickly), so this won't work for you in a budget driven sense.

Sounds like you might be onto it, but check out Charlie Papazain's Zapap method too for info on the 'bucket within a bucket method'.

Hopper.

Disclaimer: I wouldn't do bucket of death myself due to safety concerns (and do possess flashy gear) and LRB has had to replace the kettle element in above mentioned piece of equipment twice - but hey Aldi kettles are cheap, and his beer is good!


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## DanRayner (27/1/11)

True kettle elements scrounged from old kettles or Aldi cheapies are much cheaper than hand-held immersion elements - when I said they were about the same price I meant this kind:






which I have in my current HLT - a new one of these screw-in types made from some kind of rust resistant alloy will cost between $80-110 from your local water/electrical dealer. Bolt-on copper ones on eBay are a lot cheaper but may not last as long. I think screw-in would be easier to do with plastic

as for mine, it's a screw-in but a friend welded a socket into a pot for me


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## Tim (27/1/11)

I have both a 20L Handy pail with a kettle element and a 30L fermentor with an over the side element which I use and they are fine. I have had them for 6 or 7 years and used them for 3-4 years. I have a 60L aluminium pot but its just too big for a single batch. The 30L fermentor is almost the perfect size. It gets a little soft, but I have had no dramas.


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## poppa joe (27/1/11)

I have a Heavy Duty Plastic 36 Lt Chlorine drum with 2 Elements...
It works O.K....
Google "cd's old electric wort boiler " 
You will find out what you want there...
Cheer
PJ


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## Thirsty Boy (27/1/11)

A kettle element is cheap, and it will work in a fermenter as a boiler.

BUT

It is a homemade electricity vs water solution, i personally think that it will make for about the shittiest BIAB rig you could build yourself, and fermenters are expensive and smaller than you really want for BIAB anyway.

I agree with Dan 100% - i think that an over the side immersion element is about the best bit of kit you can buy, no matter what sort of brewing you decide to do, will turn ANY vessel into a brewing vessel, and if its big enough and heat proof, into a boiler. 

My ideal BIAB rig for single batches is a 50L pot and an over the side element. If you can find a nice food grade 50L plastic container that can take the heat... Then I would see no difference between it and any other pot.


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## poppa joe (27/1/11)

Forgot ...
I also have a 25 Lt. Fowlers Vacola Boiler .....
And it is PLASTIC.....Similar to a Tooheys Fermenter...
PJ


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## bcp (27/1/11)

If you're going to put that kind of heat into it, polypropylene is your best bet (Number 5 in the triangle symbol). It's stable up to 200c. 

PET (1 with triangle) & HDPE (2) - are food safe but start to be compromised over 70c. Don't use PVC (3) or polycarbonate (7) unless you don't mind toxic stuff leaching out.


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## avaneyk (27/1/11)

bcp said:


> If you're going to put that kind of heat into it, polypropylene is your best bet (Number 5 in the triangle symbol). It's stable up to 200c.
> 
> PET (1 with triangle) & HDPE (2) - are food safe but start to be compromised over 70c. Don't use PVC (3) or polycarbonate (7) unless you don't mind toxic stuff leaching out.



Interesting - how food safe is vinyl type tubing for mash transfer?


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## DanRayner (28/1/11)

AndrewSA said:


> Interesting - how food safe is vinyl type tubing for mash transfer?



Not as good as silicone tubing


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## brettprevans (28/1/11)

Vinyl v silicone = arguments
Some people aware by vinyl but all evidence points to silicone being safest. Stuff like tubing etc u will use on just about any rig upgrade so just get the proper gear in tge first place. I understand with pot etc but with minor equip just pony up.


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## DanRayner (28/1/11)

Silicone hosing is really not that expensive as a one-off cost and I love that I never need to use hose clamps. They just push on to barbed hose-tail fittings = awesome!


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## eamonnfoley (28/1/11)

AndrewSA said:


> Interesting - how food safe is vinyl type tubing for mash transfer?



I dont even like vinyl tubing for cold beer........ Although some is better than others.

Stick to stainless + silicon on the hot side if you want complete piece of mind - its worth it in the long run.


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## goatus (28/1/11)

It will never melt while its full of liquid. You can boil water inside a plastic bag, the liquid wont allow the container to fail. The one thing you have to worry about is nasties leaching out of the plastic and into the beer.


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## bcp (28/1/11)

Vinyl contains plasticisers such as pthalates & DEHA. They do leach into food. They are nasty. Whilst there is 'food grade' PVC that meets Australian standards, Australian legislation is not considered up-to-date with current research.
http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests...rs%20doing.aspx


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## manticle (28/1/11)

bcp said:


> PET (1 with triangle) & HDPE (2) - are food safe but start to be compromised over 70c.



I thought HDPE was good to about 120?


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## felten (28/1/11)

same, http://www.ides.com/pm/1_hdpe.asp


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