# Thomas Fawcett Malts



## Beer Krout (8/6/06)

Hi AHBers

I'm about to enter the world of AG and I'm very keen to brew a top toffee malt flavoured English Pale/Bitter.

Just wondering what happened to Thomas Fawcett Malts? 
I heard they were highly recommended for what I will want to do.
They used to be readily available at G&G and others.

I see G&G have replace TF with Bairds. Does this Maltster measure up for a top ESB?
What are the differences that AGers have noticed between old TF and B?

Cheers

Brett


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## GMK (8/6/06)

Marris Otter is Floor malted - i dont know taht Bairds is.
Powells Ale Malt in Aus is also Floor malted.
Floor malted means and extra couple of days and supposed a better flavour.
Marris Otter is good and Golden Promise also.

I have all three in my Malt House....

Hope this helps.
And if i have it wrong i am sure someone will let me know.


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## ausdb (8/6/06)

Beer Krout said:


> I see G&G have replace TF with Bairds. Does this Maltster measure up for a top ESB?
> What are the differences that AGers have noticed between old TF and B?



I am not sure about TF as I have never used theirs but I have recently brewed an ESB/pale ale using 100% Bairds Golden Promise its amazing how much flavour you can get from just one malt. I will give it the nod and also the Bairds maris ottter is good as well.


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## mje1980 (9/6/06)

I have a bag of bairds maris otter in my gargage. Are we all confused now?? hahaha. It says bairds malt on one side, and on the other it is labelled maris otter. Maybe maris otter is the type of malted barley used, and different companies malt it a different way?? I really don't know but it is interesting


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## Ross (9/6/06)

mje1980 said:


> I have a bag of bairds maris otter in my gargage. Are we all confused now?? hahaha. It says bairds malt on one side, and on the other it is labelled maris otter. Maybe maris otter is the type of malted barley used, and different companies malt it a different way?? I really don't know but it is interesting



mje1980 - you got it in one. Maris Otter is the type of malt & several different Company's malt it.

cheers Ross


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## Lukes (9/6/06)

Beer Krout said:


> Hi AHBers
> 
> I'm about to enter the world of AG and I'm very keen to brew a top toffee malt flavoured English Pale/Bitter.
> 
> ...



B.K. there is a malt bulk buy going on at the moment that dave (berazafi) is organising.
You might want to get in on it.

malt bulk buy thread

Luke


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## warrenlw63 (9/6/06)

Bairds MO is nice.

That being said I found Fawcett's Marris Otter to be superior. Less clarity issues and a slightly nicer, more rounded malt profile.  

Warren -


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## colinw (9/6/06)

I can't directly compare but have used Fawcett's Halcyon (which was supplied as a substitution for Golden Promise) and Baird's Maris Otter.

Both are nice malts. The Maris Otter is more caramelly, the Halcyon a little crisper in flavour. You will tend to get haze if you chill beers with either to Oz serving temperatures, but if you serve your bitter at 12 to 14 like its meant to be then your pint will look right.

I have used a lot of both Bairds and Fawcett's 55L crystal, and very much prefer the Fawcett product.

On my last trip to the UK, being in the west country area around Chippenham, Bath & Stroud, most of the very nice local beers were made with Warminster malts from a local malting in Wiltshire. Eg. the Severn Vale brewery in Dursley, Gloucestershire which I visited had a huge pile of bags of Warminster Maris Otter. Their nicest beer - a very dark ale called Monumentale - was brewed just with Maris Otter, Crystal and Chocolate, all from the Warminster maltings.

Based on what I tasted, if some enterprising soul were to start importing Warminster malts I for one would buy plenty! Those beers were good!


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## MAH (9/6/06)

OK I'll wade into this one. 



GMK said:


> Marris Otter is Floor malted - i dont know taht Bairds is.



No Marris Otter is not equivalent to floor malted, it's just a variety of barley. Floor malting is a production method that can be used on any barley. This is why you can get floor malted Marris Otter from Fawcetts and Bairds Marris Otter isn't.

I personally don't put much credence into what type of barley is used for the malting. Yes the Marris Otter that we have access to has made good beers, but I don't think it's intrinsic to this particular variety of barley. My opinion is that it's because the malting companies are good at malting. If the malting company is crap then it doesn't matter what barley they use, the malt will be crap. However if it's a good malting company in the first place, theoretically the better barley the better malt. I think this is why you see a difference in the quality of Marris Otter from different companies. 

If it was just the variety of barley, then it wouldn't matter if you used Marris Otter from Bairds, Fawcett's or whoever, it would all be the same. Clearly this is not the case, and again in my opinion, Fawcett's is a superior Marris Otter malt compared to Bairds.

So I would suggest that you first consider the quality of the malting company, then consider type of malt approapriate for the style, eg if you want to make a good Best Bitter, chose a true ale malt, not a pils malt. Your last consideration should be whether you chose a particular variety of barley as this will have the least overall impact. The variety of barley should be seen as the icing on the cake.

One other critical factor is freshness. 

Cheers
MAH


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## wessmith (9/6/06)

If I could just add to MAH's excellent post - both Marris Otter and Halcyon are (usually) winter barleys. That is they are sown in the winter and harvested in mid summer. Golden Promise is a spring barley and harvested mid to late summer. These barley strains are low yielding but offer the maltster considerable flexibility in building flavour and aroma. They are also VERY low in nitrogen - much lower than we can grow barley here in Australia. Typical Total Nitrogen figures are around 1.45% to 1.55% (9.05 to 9.7% protein). And the floor malting thing is key to bringing out the true ale flavours but it is a time consuming and difficult process and inevitably much more expensive than conventional pnuematic malting. Its also worth noting that only ale malts are floor malted these days too.

Actually, none of the above strains are in mainsream production in the UK today - the barley of choice tends to be Optic or Pearl.

Wes



MAH said:


> OK I'll wade into this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Trough Lolly (9/6/06)

Nicely put MAH and Wes,
And if I may add, I find that TF makes excellent pale and light crystal, amber, pale choc and roasted grains for my English ales and stouts...they're well worth it if you can find them in your local HBS...I buy the grains whole and crack only enough for each brew I do to maximise freshness and quality of the finished malt profile.
Cheers,
TL


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## T.D. (9/6/06)

Why has TF disappeared from the shops??? Does anybody know?


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## colinw (9/6/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> Nicely put MAH and Wes,
> And if I may add, I find that TF makes excellent pale and light crystal, amber, pale choc and roasted grains for my English ales and stouts...they're well worth it if you can find them in your local HBS...I buy the grains whole and crack only enough for each brew I do to maximise freshness and quality of the finished malt profile.
> Cheers,
> TL


I don't think there is a better Chocolate Malt.

And their Amber malt is powerful stuff. As little as 50g in a normal size batch adds a detectable dry toasty flavour.

Now if I could just find what specialty grains made the delicious dry burnt flavour to the pale mild (Holden's Black Country Mild) which I tried earlier this year. Yum! About 3.2% alcohol, but so much flavour!


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## warrenlw63 (9/6/06)

colinw said:


> I don't think there is a better Chocolate Malt.



Colin, have you tried Baird's Pale Choc? Very nice indeed.  

Warren -


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## colinw (9/6/06)

No, I haven't. I'm nearly out of chocolate malt, so I'll take your advice and get some when I next order.


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## wessmith (9/6/06)

Well, yes. TF malts used to be imported by Maltcraft but the resopnse from the micro industry (the main users of specialty malts) was pretty luke warm and as a consequence sales were very slow. The last shipment came in a couple of years ago as I recall, but a decision was made not to import around that time so sadly the brand was dropped. I personally think their specialty roasted varieties are the best around and having visited the maltings and seen how they malt I can understand the quality and consistency.

Sort of makes me feel like getting back into malt just thinking (drooling actually!) about them.

Wes




T.D. said:


> Why has TF disappeared from the shops??? Does anybody know?


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## warrenlw63 (9/6/06)

wessmith said:


> Sort of makes me feel like getting back into malt just thinking (drooling actually!) about them.
> 
> Wes




Wes if it means you'll bring back Fawcett's and Hoepfner I'll welcome it. :beerbang: 

BTW Wes, was the lukewarm Micro reception due in no small part to the price? We small fish are happy to pay it. :lol: 

Warren -


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## wessmith (9/6/06)

Hi Warren, yes partly price but more importantly a lack of understanding of what the malts could do for a finely crafted beer. Even today the "pale and 10% crystal" brewers are still around but a few enlightened souls have emerged to take their craft to newer heights.

Maybe were too early into the market!

Wes




warrenlw63 said:


> wessmith said:
> 
> 
> > Sort of makes me feel like getting back into malt just thinking (drooling actually!) about them.
> ...


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## MAH (9/6/06)

I was a big fan of TF malts. Their floor malted MO was my base grain of choice for anything English and I agree that their specialty roasted malts are excellent. 

I haven't found a repalcement for either their base malts or specialty malts that I'm truly happy with :angry: and was happy to pay the extra for these truly exceptional malts. Not surprisingly I've been making more and more hop driven beers to make up loss of TF malts.

Cheers
MAH


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## Beer Krout (9/6/06)

What are the logistics of a bulk buy of TF malts from the old dart?

Is this even possible?


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## Trough Lolly (9/6/06)

I only have a kilo or so each of TF Pale Choc and Light Crystal left - I use it VERY sparingly!!
Cheers,
TL


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## Peter Wadey (13/6/06)

Ok, TL based on your comments I'm going to put my last 3kg of Chocolate & 2kg of 145EBC Crystal on eBay. I'm expecting some firey bidding from you & Colin. 

Rgds,
Pete


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## Trough Lolly (13/6/06)

My finger is poised over the sniper button!

Cheers,
TL


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## colinw (14/6/06)

Peter Wadey said:


> Ok, TL based on your comments I'm going to put my last 3kg of Chocolate & 2kg of 145EBC Crystal on eBay. I'm expecting some firey bidding from you & Colin.
> 
> Rgds,
> Pete


 :lol: 

But then you won't be able to brew with it yourself!

I'm guessing Customs would crack a wobbly if I visited tried to bring in a couple of kilos of specialty grain on my next trip to the UK.

Mind you, I didn't see a single HBS anywhere I went over there.


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## bigfridge (14/6/06)

colinw said:


> Based on what I tasted, if some enterprising soul were to start importing Warminster malts I for one would buy plenty! Those beers were good!



Colin,

You may just get your wish ....... as an early christmas present.


Stay Tuned,
David


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## colinw (14/6/06)

Good, because I just bummed 4kg of Maris Otter off a friend so I can make another batch of my "BPA" bitter.


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## Beer Krout (14/6/06)

Another question

What other maltsters can you get in Australia?

Is this it?

Local - Barrat Burston, Joe White, Powells
UK - Bairds
Germany - Weyermann

No Dingemans? Briess?

Cheers
Brett


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## colinw (14/6/06)

Also Hoepfner from Germany.

I've seen references to "Kirin" malt - who makes that?


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## Airgead (14/6/06)

colinw said:


> Also Hoepfner from Germany.
> 
> I've seen references to "Kirin" malt - who makes that?



Colin

Its a joint venture between a local company and kirin brewing in Japan. Based in perth.

http://www.kirinaustralia.com.au/about.html

Apparently its one of the more common malts over in WA but not seen much on the east coast.

Cheers
Dave


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## Guest Lurker (14/6/06)

Airgead said:


> colinw said:
> 
> 
> > Also Hoepfner from Germany.
> ...



Its not actually common, its not in any HBS. But its now the only place that will sell a bulk bag (about a tonne) to a group of brewers (and West Coast Brewers in particular) or to an enterprising person willing to bag and move what they dont need. You get whatever they happen to be malting at the time, which is pretty much megalager malt, so it tends to be quite dextrinous, but if you cut it with some adjunct it can make good beers.


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## colinw (14/6/06)

Guest Lurker said:


> Airgead said:
> 
> 
> > colinw said:
> ...


Nothing wrong with megalager malt if used right, but you have to be prepared to cut it with adjuncts whether it be dextrose or rice or corn in the mash. 

My first GOOD all-grain was a pale ale made with just Joe White Schooner Malt, cane sugar, about 25 IBUs of Pride of Ringwood and Coopers ale yeast. If I hadn't dry hopped it with Cascade it would've tasted like a typical Aussie pub draught.


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